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Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Men's Basketball => Region 10 men's basketball => Topic started by: The Show on March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

Title: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Show on March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM
Sometimes you're the windshield...sometimes you're the bug.

Once again, good luck!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: navy&gold on March 06, 2005, 10:07:56 PM
The Show -  

People in the Northwest don't get the windshield/bug analogy.  I lived in Seattle for a summer a couple years ago. Some of the people who worked for me had played a video game once where you race a car through Iowa and the windshield gets covered by bugs... they didn't believe this actually happened.

On the IIAC page, Curtis Patching said something about the referees letting the players decide the game.  I wasn't there so I don't know how bad it actually was, but I think you'd have a different view if your team had 5 players in foul trouble and 3 of those players foul out.  All I can say is ... deja vu!!!

And, it's a good thing I wasn't there or I probably would have gotten booted.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 07, 2005, 12:47:38 AM
Wanna get a bite to eat prior to the game in Stevens Point?  

Hilltop Pub and Grill (right when you come in on HWY 10 (just after Interstate 39 intersection)  

Guu's Tavern and Grill-downtown on Main St.  

Ella's Resturant-just west of Quandt Fieldhouse (on Division St., aka Business 51).  

Springville Wharf-off the beaten path, but well worth it. More into Plover (south of SP).  

Michele's Restaurant and Catering-for the upper class fans :-). reservations appreciated. On Division St., just north of Ella's.  

Hibachi Joe's-Chinese & Japanese Cuisine  

Red Mill Supper Club-Westside, going out of town on HWY 10. Nice place to eat, but not as upscale as Michele's.  

Bill's Pizza Shop-on Main St. downtown, near Guu's, right near Hibachi Joe's.  

I'm sure other Pointer fans and Point natives could help out, if you ask nicely. :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 07, 2005, 01:03:47 AM
And for anyone looking for lodging, here are the options in Stevens Point.  I'd get something soon, because there is a lot going on in town next weekend.

http://www.spacvb.com/lodging.html
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Curtis Patching on March 07, 2005, 01:52:33 AM
Old School
I have been mulling this over and I decided to just ask...is there really a place called 'Hibachi Joe's' in Wisconsin?  I need to know if I have to pack my hibachi for the trip.
Navy&Gold
We also had key players in foul trouble, thats why one of our key players (McVey) only played 14 minutes.  And guys who usually average maybe 8 minutes had to come up huge.
I look forward to the rematch with a different outcome.
GO LOGGERS!!!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 07, 2005, 02:16:49 AM
Downtown Stevens Point.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 07, 2005, 11:42:48 AM
Old School,

I was in Stevens Point during the fall and I find it hard to believe that any restaurant in S.P. would take "reservations".  :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 07, 2005, 01:04:30 PM
The outside of Michelle's is very unassuming, but, fortunately for many a fine dining establishment, it's the food that matters, not the decor.  Michelle's is one of two quite exquisite cuisine choices in Stevens Point.  The other is the Silver Coach, on 10, heading west out of town (actually, I think it's in Park Ridge, a "suburb" if you will, of SP).  The restaurant is in an old passenger rail car.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldpa on March 07, 2005, 04:05:44 PM
I went to Stevens Point this winter. I had reservations, but I went anyway.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 08, 2005, 12:45:29 PM
Traveling Fans' Itinerary Should Be:

1. Go tour the POINT (BEER) BREWERY Friday early afternoon.

2. Depending on your taste, eat at one of the fine establishments listed above.
2a.  Hilltop Pub has a great fishfry (come on, it's Wisconsin), as does Guu's on Main.
2b. Springville Wharf has great cheese bread.  
2c. Bill's Pizza has great, well, pizza.

3. Go to Belt's Ice Cream for dessert.  We're not talking McDonald's quality ice cream here.  It just opened last Friday and it's been a tradition to camp out the night before to be the first in line.  Great ice cream, sundaes, flurries etc.

4. After the game, head down to The Final Score to celebrate or drink your sorrows away.  It's a nice "sports bar" and a lot of fans head down there after and prior to the game.  There is a big screen tv, among other tvs and plenty of room. They also serve good food there, you could eat there and then go to Belts!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 08, 2005, 08:09:11 PM
Wildcat:  Very clever, you're a lot more fun on this page than the fox guys who just roll over and die or get defensive.  If you keep it up I'm gonna have to stick Curtis Patching on you.  

What a win it would be for UPS at Stevens Point. The team who knocked UPS out last year, the defending NCAA champs who didn't lose anybody (except pg to injury which could be a huge factor) and at their place! Don't be mistaken, UPS is a better team this year than last year.  They are more careful with their pressure, have another year of learning the system, and dominating posts.  Look for UPS to be well prepared for Stevens Point, and don't think anybody has forgotten last year.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 01:27:25 AM
Blackhawks,

My "inside" sources tell me different about UPS being better this year.  He says that UPS was better last year because of the better outside shooting (mainly you) that is now gone.

No matter, I'll be pulling for your dad and his boys to knock out the Pointers.  A victory over the number 1 DIII team will look great on Bridgelands resume for when he's looking for higher level jobs.  :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 09, 2005, 02:41:39 AM
Any of you posters coming to Wisconsin?  Be cool to meet some of those Northwesterners!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 09, 2005, 03:17:50 AM
Just kind of curious what kind of crowd we are expecting from the UPS fans this weekend.  Is UPS basketball a big attraction?  Someone posted in another board that in last year's sectional semi-final game, the attendence was only 1809 or so.  That seems a bit small considering YOU are hosting it.  I saw that your gym holds 4500!  I looked at last year's attendence marks and UPS averaged just under 800.  Doesn't seem like the atmosphere would be too electrifying with such an empty looking gym.  Looks like Pacific Lutheran and Linfield (both over 2000) had good followings.

Granted the 1800 you got at the Point game was the biggest draw for a home game, but I guess I thought there would be more.  Apparently no one wanted to see the sectional championship since only 245 fans showed up.  Granted, it's two teams that you don't care about, but still, it's a sectional championship in the national tourney, guaranteed to be good basketball and of course ended up that way, a one-point overtime thriller.

This year, your attendence jumped 200 fans.  So, are we expecting UPS to fill their 400 tickets they get?
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: hoops on March 09, 2005, 12:20:13 PM
For those coming into Point this weekend a couple of other eating places for you would be...
1) the sportplate restaurant at Sentryworld...
2) The Restaurant in the sentry insurance headquarters...
3) Pagliacci's in the same location
4) Tokyo Steakhouse (they do the cooking etc right in front of you)
5) Mickeys (pizza, steak and some Italian)
 
for those heading out for fun after the game it's either the Final Score or "the square" which is a group of about 11 bars all within a block of each other but please be aware of drinking and driving, our officers will be there
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 12:34:34 PM
Old School,

You have to understand that an excellent athletic team in one of the big three (football, basketball, baseball) was something new to the UPS campus last year.  Also remember that this is the Seattle/Tacoma area so the students have more options on the weekend besides cow tipping and shooting their shotguns at stuff.

Blackhawks,

Old school says 4,500 capacity...does that barn up at UPS really hold that many people?
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 09, 2005, 01:13:27 PM
wildcat1144,

This site says UPS's Memorial Fieldhouse holds 4500.  It's not my claim.

There is so much more to do in Stevens Point and the Midwest area than just cow tip and shoot off our shotguns.

Some of us go down to the black railroad bridge down on the Wisconsin River and throw rocks off of it.  That's a good ol time.  We also go to the local Taco Bell parking lot and hang out in the bed of our big trucks and compare tattooes.  Another past time of Stevens Point is "cruising" down Division St. and honking our custom made horns at each other, sometimes spinning our tires at the lights when they turn green.  The "of age" crowd goes down to Bruisers, located at the aforementioned Square and you're bound to find a fight if you want one.  Since we all live on farms in the midwest, we also go out and shoot cans off the wooden fence.  At night we go and "shine deer".  Do you guys out west know what a deer looks like? :-)  

All because we don't have a Starbucks doesn't mean we can't find things to keep ourselves busy.

(Message edited by shorty on March 9, 2005)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2005, 01:25:24 PM
I don't know where we got the number -- I look at the facilities and quick facts on UPS' site and it doesn't say anything, so I must have gotten it out of the Blue Book or something.

I have a Blue Book here that says 4,000, so I'll change it to that until I hear something different.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 09, 2005, 02:00:44 PM
Theres a sign in the fieldhouse that says UPS seats 3500 for basketball and 5000 for concerts.  We already discussed the attendance numbers on the board and I'd say their higher than posted, due to the fact that the student section either isn't counted (they don't need tickets) or is counted poorly.  

Last year there was only 2000 at the game because the UPS students (largely from out of state) were on spring break and had made flights before they knew UPS was hosting.

The UPS crowd is growing each year with the success of the program of course.  I wouldn't expect UPS to fill their 400 tickets but they should get a decent following to support them out in Wisconsin.  

If I can find a fairly inexpensive way to get to Stevens Point from Dallas, Texas, I'll be there.

So what's the scoop on UWSP this year?  Of course Kaslow and Bennet are 2 of the best in the country at this level, but what else?  How's your pg situation looking after the injury?  Strong conference play as usual this year?  Record at home?
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 02:03:09 PM
Old School,

I've seen a deer or two but they were on TV.  

Most of your description sounds like things you can do down in town that Linfield is located, McMinnville, Oregon.  You can also go throw rocks at stuff, get into bar fights, etc.  

The difference is that afterwards we go by to the Starbucks drive thru that is located on the Linfield Campus and get a Grande double mocha latte.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 09, 2005, 03:13:16 PM
Wildcat,

I think you should probably say "recent" excellent athletic teams are something new.  UPS won the D-2 National Championship in 1976.

Also, the majority of people who come to games in Stevens Point are adults and families, not college students.  They have plenty of other options (uh... family stuff?) but they choose to come to a great basketball game, as a family.  

The perennial national leaders in D-3 are not in podunk towns with nothing to do.  The top 4 schools in attendance this season are Hope, Illinois Welseyan, Calvin (not sure of the order, I can't find the link with this year's numbers, but all were over 2000) and UW Stevens Point.  Now, like I said these schools aren't in country bumkin towns with nothing else going on.  Hope is in Holland (112,000 people), Calvin is in Grand Rapids (197,000), Illinois Welseyan is in Bloomington-Normal (113,100) and UWSP in Stevens Point (40,191).  The argument that there's SO much going on in Tacoma isn't that valid of an argument... I think that perhaps the University just needs to do a little more P.R. work... do some things in the community to get the community interested and involved and wanting to attend.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: BanditUWSP on March 09, 2005, 03:42:22 PM
Old School,  
you forgot that when it gets hot in the summer, the "rich folks" might cool off in their "cEEment pond" after drinking a little moonshine.  Sorry, got to run and do some "double naught" spy work for Granny, Ellie May and Uncle Jed.   (lol)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 04:42:14 PM
Point Special,

Old School and I were just having some friendly banter.  It was not an indictment on the SP area.  Just some ribbing.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: hoops on March 09, 2005, 05:40:02 PM
Point Special,

were did you get the census numbers from at 40,191?  Point has just over 24,000 people in it.  just wondering
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 09, 2005, 06:58:14 PM
I cited the Stevens Point "metro area"... Stevens Point, Plover, Whiting, and Park Ridge all bump right up next to each other... I plopped them in the same category (in the same way I brought together Bloomington-Normal, and the Grand Rapids adjacent areas).
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 10, 2005, 01:50:51 AM
Blackhawks,

Point basically has everyone back that they had last year, but they are a year better, as is everyone else, I guess!

As you know, Kalsow and Bennett are the big guns, but everyone contributes in their own ways and they don't always show up in the boxscore.  Sometimes it's just a key basket, rebound, steal, or whatever.  So, simply looking at the numbers won't give you a full sense of what kind of TEAM Point really is.

Kalsow and Bennett are probably the best 1-2 combo in the WIAC, let alone the nation.  There hasn't been a time, that I can remember, when a team has stopped BOTH of them.  Last week, for example, WIAC player of the year Kalsow was held to just 3 first half points.  But, Bennett went for 18 in the half.  It's hard to stop both of them.  

Supporting cast includes Kyle Grusczynski, who's a big shooting guard and can hit from long range.  Jon Krull can light it up too, going for 25 or so in the semi-finals last year vs. John Carroll.  Eric Maus is a great defender and can make those midrange jumpers.

This is the best passing team anyone will see.  They led the league in assists by a huge margin (averaging 2 more assists than the #2 team).  Kalsow is a point-forward and probably will be more relied upon with senior point guard Tamaris Relerford out for the rest of his college career.  Backup PG Shawn Lee and 3rd stringer Steve Hicklin are both freshman, but Hicklin was extremely impressive in place of Relerford in the 2nd half last weekend.  Ironically, Lee just returned from a broken hand (the injury that has sidelined Relerford).  They are good ballhandlers, but none of the point guards have been relied upon to score.  

Point was undefeated at home this year, going 16-0 so far, I think.  They averaged 1800 fans at home, in the 2800 seat gym.  The last 4 games (3 WIAC tourney games and vs. LU in the NCAAs) have brought in over 8500 fans, with the last game a sellout.  This weekend's games were sold out in less than 3 hours (some reports said 90 minutes, but that's not true).

They had to fight for basically every conference win and tied Platteville at the top at 13-3 (they split).  3rd place Oshkosh ended up 11-5.  They were taken to overtime, before winning at last place La Crosse.

Point's defense is real tough.  Their man to man is incredible, in your face, defense and their zone is aggressive and hard to get into the paint.

They've held their opponents to 20 or less points at half time NINE times this year.

(Message edited by shorty on March 10, 2005)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Eric Powers on March 10, 2005, 11:30:23 AM
Long Time reader, first time Poster.

I just had to comment on the Pointers passing ability mentioned previously.  Over the last couple of years due to a work conflict I have had to listen to the games.  I went to the WIAC championship and then the Lawrence game and I was blown away with the unselfish play of all the Pointers.  Guys will give up decent shots, to make the extra pass for a higher percentage shot.

That is why I think the loss of Relerford will not be as huge as it would to most teams.  Once the get the ball across half court they don't need to rely on one guy to handle the ball.  We still have Lee and Hicklin to run things, and Kalsow has shown that he can bring the ball up as well if needed.

The Pointer system does not rely on the PG to score, so we are not loosing points, there are 4 other seniors on the team, so they are not loosing any leadership, they are not even loosing the teams leader in assists, we will miss his toughness but I am sure that Relerford will turn in to the teams biggest fan rallying everyone else from the bench.  So as much as all Pointers wish Relerford could play, and feel horrible that his season ended this way.  The rest of the team will be able to pick up the slack.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on March 11, 2005, 03:05:42 PM
Many of us SCIAC fans are pulling for the Loggers tonight - bring it home for the West Coast!

And Wildcat - I predict the Cal Lu Kingsmen will demolish your beloved Cats...   in Men's tennis on Saturday :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 11, 2005, 04:39:26 PM
Scandihoovian,

Yeah, the men's tennis team is still licking their wounds after getting bounced 7-0 by University of Portland.  

Hey speaking of licking wounds check out this disgusting story!

Go Loggers!
Go NWC!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on March 11, 2005, 05:18:47 PM
I'd hate to see what kind of demonstration that guy would use after a pep talk about putting a licking on the other team...

As always, Wildcat, you are a purveyor of fascinating insights into American culture.  With that thought I'm off to go listen to the latest Icy Hot Stuntaz download.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 11, 2005, 05:50:07 PM
I say 84-83 Loggers.  Look for UPS to be incredibly well prepared and apply smart pressure.  A lot was learned from last year.  Keys to the game in my opinion are:
1.  Loggers not giving up easy buckets in the press
2.  Mcvey staying out of foul trouble
3.  UPS annd particularly Curtiss shooting the ball well on the road
4.  UPS keeping composure in tough atmosphere
5.  Don't lose Bennet!!!! Limit Kaslow  

I'll be listening to every word and waiting for updates from the posters!!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 11, 2005, 11:33:38 PM
Point wins 81-63...the most uncomfortable 18-point win I've attended.  My hats off to the Loggers.  More later.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 12, 2005, 02:34:35 AM
Concerning Blackhawk's post:

1) UWSP got a few easy buckets off of the press (not as many as last year).  They did, however, get a bunch of relatively easy baskets early.  They were just in the half-court offense and a product of some great passing, namely from Kalsow (7 assists to just one turnover).
2) McVey had 4 fouls, but he really played well.  Of all of the UPS players, he impressed me the most.  He was tenacious on the offensive end... but he was tenacious into double teams, which limited his potential effectiveness.  Still, though, he led UPS with 19 (I think he could have had 40 if he had played that hard and not been challenged).  
3)UPS shot 39% for the game (27% from 3).  Curtiss was 6/15 (4/12 from 3).  That isn't going to cut it when your opponent shoots 58% for the game, and you don't force that many turnovers (see comment below)
4)I feel that UPS lost their composure a little bit down the stretch, but I guess it depends on your definition of composure.  They were consistent, playing pretty dirty the whole game.  They seemed to "lose it" (i.e. their composure) after a few calls... but it's one thing to play hard, and it's another thing to play with malicious intent.  That may have just been the fault of the referee crew, however, not getting a handle on the game early.  I thought they let some things go, and that set the tone of the game.  I think players should be able to play hard, but when you have to worry about seemingly probable injuries from the colisions that were happening on the court, I think there's a problem.  But, I guess this is just my opinion, so take it as you will.
5. Bennett didn't go off like last year, though he did go for 22 on 5/10 shooting (3/4 from trey land) and 9/11 on the line.  Maus was the unstoppable one, going 7/7 from the field and 4/4 from the line for 18 points.  Combine that with Freshman Steve Hicklin (3rd string point guard) going for 15, and UWSP's big two didn't NEED unbelievable nights.

Keys to the game:  Puget Sound had +3 turnovers forced.  For them to have won the game tonight, they would have had to shoot the ball much better, or force at least 7-8 UWSP turnovers.  

Like I said, UPS played hard.  They should be proud of this season.  (for more on the game, check the WIAC page)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 12, 2005, 06:48:24 PM
Point Special:  

Thanks for the update on the game.  

As far as dirty play, UPS will play as hard and physical as any team in the nation.  As I'm sure you saw, UPS is not afraid of collisions or diving on the floor.  Also, UPS especially Curtiss will do seemingly anything to win.  That said UPS is not a dirty team and didn't have "malicious intent."  This was the biggest game of the year and I'm sure UPS left everything they had on the court.

Congrats to Aubrey Shelton on a great career, and Chris O'Donnel (the most underrated player in the NWC).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on August 16, 2005, 06:31:11 PM
GO 'CATS!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on September 18, 2005, 07:17:56 PM
Lets get it started for the upcoming season! Who will be the team to beat? Any sleepers? Who are the players to watch, and what do you think of the conference tourney coming back?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: castle on September 28, 2005, 03:00:10 PM
What does Whitworth look like this year...after a down year last year, I expect them to be back atop the NWC in '05-06.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on September 30, 2005, 02:05:45 AM
They should be much tougher this year. With Jon Young and Williams coming back stronger they should make a run. I'm not too sure about their incoming freshman class though.  I have heard a lot about Puget Sound during the offseason. They sopposedly have a few D1 transfers on board and a good looking recruiting class meshing with what was already a great team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fosheezie on October 24, 2005, 08:48:02 PM
Coach Lowery for Coach of the Year.  He is a bad bad man!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 26, 2005, 05:33:51 AM
If he can win 5+ games then he deserves it. Also, where is Jeremy Cross going this year, I saw he's not on the team at Puget anymore?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on October 27, 2005, 02:21:13 AM
Who's gonna win the NWC this year????  Come on.  The only question is if UPS will finally go 16-0 or if somebody (LC or Will) will get them on the road. 

They are returning D3News Pre Season All-American Zack McVey.  Wait til the NWC sees him.  He is a man amongst boys (looking similair to Oriard a few years back but more athletic and better around the bucket).  And there is nobody better than Chase Curtiss in the clutch.  Add a solid starting lineup of returners around them, about 6 talented freshmen and 2 transfers and they just overpower the rest of the league.   

The conference tournament is a terrible idea.  Yes, it builds excitement and gives the rest of the league something to shoot for; but with so many teams in D3 UPS could go 15-1,  get upset in the tourney by a team they already beat twice in conference,  and not make the postseason.  In D3 the tourney is too small and there are too many teams. The NWC should send its best representation.

Hey I'm with it, Coach Lowry for COTY.  I think the magic number should be 4 though.  If he can go 4-12 that definetely qualifies him.  They should get the POTY too.



 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 27, 2005, 10:11:49 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on October 27, 2005, 02:21:13 AMThe conference tournament is a terrible idea.  Yes, it builds excitement and gives the rest of the league something to shoot for; but with so many teams in D3 UPS could go 15-1,  get upset in the tourney by a team they already beat twice in conference,  and not make the postseason.

That's not likely to happen anymore, Blackhawks4. The tournament has expanded to 59 teams this year, and Pool C (at-large teams) is expanding from 5 to 18 slots. There's no way now that Puget Sound could go 15-1 in conference, lose in the NWC tourney, and then get left out in the cold on Selection Sunday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on October 28, 2005, 02:27:13 AM
Mr. Sager, good point, I was not aware of the expansion of pool c teams.  However, it still does not change my opinion.  You and I both know that a 3rd place team in the NWC can end up with a 9-7 or 10-6 record.  That team has no business representing our league in the tourney if they pull off an upset.    If I'm not mistaken there are well over 350 teams in D3, and unlike D1,  4 and 5 teams from one conference will not make the tourney.  I disagree, I think there is a good chance that a first place team can get overlooked, especially with the midwest and east coast bias.      The team that wins the most league games over the course of the season should have the automatic bid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 28, 2005, 02:43:58 AM
I'm not a huge fan of conference tournaments, so I'm not going to argue that point with you. But you're dead wrong about a 15-1 NWC team getting left out in the cold. And with 18 Pool C bids now available I can't imagine many scenarios in which a regular-season NWC winner would be denied one of them if they needed it; the league would have to have a total logjam for anything like that to even be a possibility, with the upper half of the league consisting entirely of 10-6 and 9-7 teams. And how often is that going to happen?

Of course four or five teams from one conference won't make the tourney. Even if the number of slots was bumped up from the new total of 59 to D1's total of 65 you still wouldn't see four or five teams from one conference make the tournament. D3 is too big for that; there's 37 conferences that have automatic bids in D3. But that's hardly your original point, now, is it? It's a far cry from worrying whether your 15-1 regular-season champ can get an at-large bid if they falter in the conference tourney to worrying about whether your fourth- or fifth-place team can get an at-large bid. Since no conference has ever received that many bids in the past (with the exception of the NJAC, which got four teams in one year due to the fact that it was a 64-team tourney back then and bids were apportioned on a regional basis -- their region, the Atlantic, is the smallest of D3's eight regions), why even bring it up?

Oh, and there is no midwest and east coast bias in the selection process. That bias charge is a myth. If anything, the national selection committee is too scrupulously enslaved to the five primary criteria for selecting Pool C teams (in-region winning percentage, in-region Quality of Wins Index, in-region head-to-head competition, in-region results versus common regional opponents, and in-region results versus regionally ranked teams).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2005, 12:18:42 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on October 28, 2005, 02:27:13 AM
Mr. Sager, good point, I was not aware of the expansion of pool c teams.

Rather important story on the front page you'll want to read, then.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 29, 2005, 07:39:51 PM
Back to how the league will play out. I think there are just 2 teams that could have a chance to pull an upset on Puget. Whitworth has proven scorers, a sound ball handler, and a big man that can keep up with McVey. LC has lights-out shooters to keep pace with Curtiss etc. Both will need to play near flawless games to pull it off though. What does everyone else think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on October 30, 2005, 02:55:37 AM
Blackhawks4~

I was curious if you knew where Jeremy Cross was?  He isn't on their roster...and I thought he was one of their best players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on October 30, 2005, 06:53:17 AM
Ok.  Use to be here before, and now getting back into this thing. 

Heard that UPS is just loaded and should run away with the league.  Do not know much about the other teams except LC and UPS.  LC has some good players from what I hear but are a bit small, but can shoot it.  Still a young team with most of team sophomores and freshman. 

Curious to know more about the other teams like Willamette, Fox, etc.  Need to get caught up after a few years away.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on October 30, 2005, 06:07:12 PM
There is no east coast and midwest bias?  Come on!  If it comes down to taking a west coast team or an east coast team with similair records the east coast team will go everytime.

Himjay, Who is Whitworth's big man? I'm with ya on williams but proven scorers? 

Will, L/C, ww  have a shot at UPS on the road. Little worried bout whitman too.

Big Dave??? The legend ???Wow.  Is that you??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 30, 2005, 06:28:55 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on October 30, 2005, 06:07:12 PM
There is no east coast and midwest bias?  Come on!  If it comes down to taking a west coast team or an east coast team with similair records the east coast team will go everytime.

Do you have any examples?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on October 30, 2005, 08:23:41 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on October 30, 2005, 06:07:12 PM
Big Dave??? The legend ???Wow.  Is that you??

I am surprised that I get such excellent billing.  Whatever you want to call me...I am cool.  I was curious what the word is with Cross?  My football team (that I am coaching) is 6-2 and making a run at the league title.  We'll see what we can do.  I am running the defense...and we are really starting to play well.  Just wanted to say hello...and find out the outlook on the Loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 31, 2005, 03:03:51 AM
I should have clarified about Whitworths "big man".  Lance Pecht is not really a stereotypical big man but at 6'4, 6'5 your a big man in this league.  He can score inside and he proved that last year by averaging over 15 a night. I spoke too soon however, when I said he would cause problems on defense for McVey, which I doubt. As far as scorers are concerned, I think the Pirates have one of the better offensive players in the league in senior Jon Young. Young could be the best shooter in the league and also put up 15+ per game last year. Another big body down low is George Tucker, yet another double digit scorer returning. With its top 4 players back, Whitworth looks like a solid #2 team.  Piofan, LC IS small, and that's an understatement. I heard that they are going to copy Puget's uptempo, all-out, pressing style. Expect more threes from them this year then in the past, which is really saying something. Wells is a long distance threat and they have a few others you have to keep an eye on.  Should be a fun year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on October 31, 2005, 06:21:47 PM
Thanks Himjay.  I know that LC will be playing very uptempo this year.  Heard it directly from the school itself.  And its hard to imagine them getting up more 3's than they already do, so that will be interesting. I cant wait to get back to Portland in January and see that.  Should be interesting.

Whitworth seems to continue to do well.  I was around in the mid-90's and ever since I can remember they have always had quality teams. 

Whats the news on Willamette?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 31, 2005, 06:35:58 PM
What I've heard about Cross is that he transfered and walked-on @ Wazzu, although he is not listed on their roster. I'm not 100% sure if that's true, but that's what I've heard from someone who saw him in Pullman a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 31, 2005, 06:42:42 PM
No prob. As far as Willamette goes, they have most of the top players from last years team back. Jon Olinger, who really came on during the second half of last year, was granted a post-grad year I believe and he should be their top guy back. I see them as a middle-to-upper level team this year. They have a lot of freshman, but I don't see any of them making a huge impact this year. David Fife, a freshman from Canby, has potential and could be a star for them in the future though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 01, 2005, 02:11:41 AM
Allright with preseason right around the corner lets do it:
Preseason Picks

1st team
MVP:  Zack McVey ups
Chase Curtiss ups
Brian Williams ww
magnuson lc
pecht ww
ricker wmn

2nd team
schmick gfu
wells lc
olinger wu
ryan delong ups
young ww


newcomer (i know it's not a category but...) RJ Barsh ups

1. ups
2. ww
3. lc
4. wu
5. wmn
6. gfu
7. lin
8. plu
9. pac

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 01, 2005, 04:25:59 AM
Magnuson is out until after the first semester. Don't know if he will rejoin the team then or not. Picks:

1-Puget
2-Whitworth
3-LC
4-George Fox
5-Willamette
6-PLU
7-Whitman
8-Linfield
9-Pacific

First team-
John Young WW
Chase Curtiss UPS
Magnuson LC (providing he plays)
McVey UPS
Williams WW

2nd team-

Olinger WU
Robinowitz LC
Pecht WW
Schmick GF
Kelly WHIT

Coach of the year- Hayford, Whitworth

Any thoughts, input?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on November 01, 2005, 01:05:36 PM
I'd look for a challenge from George Fox this year.  The team finally got some confidence from their break out year last year and only lost ONE player from the team last year (technically 2, but the 2nd never played).  Granted the one player was POTY last year but provided they can come together as a team I could see them having a chance.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 01, 2005, 04:10:35 PM
Testing
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 01, 2005, 04:42:01 PM
Like to start by saying I'm glad I found this site, and am looking forward to talking about NWC hoops all year long (although I'd like to see some more Bearcats fans on here obviously).

First of all, as a WU alum, it was disappointing to see Willamette fall from the top of the league last year, although I don't expect them to stay there for long.  UPS has done a fantastic job over the past few years, taking the conference by storm and reinventing themselves (in my day, they were the also-ran school in Tacoma, that wore green and yellow).  Whitworth has certainly been a factor year in and year out, while the traditional powers, WU, LC and Linfield, have been a bit inconsistent.

That being said, my picks are:

1.UPS-losing Cross will hurt, but they've dealt with the loss of quality players before...whatever happened to the shooter from a few years ago...medved (i think)?
2.Whitworth-Came on strong at the end of last year, and pecht/williams are a strong tandem...the shooter, Young, was good as well
3.Willamette-Coach James will not stand for another sub-.500 season...Olinger is a player, and from the Midnight Madness I went to, the Bearcats looked a lot more athletic...they and Whitworth could easily flipflop all year long in the standings
4.G.Fox-lose Gayman, but have a lot back right?
5. LC-If they're hot, they can contend...but wow, if magnuson is gone, who's inside?
6. Whitman-seems like they're always right around here
7. PLU-don't know or here anything about them
8. Pacific-new coach, anyone here anything??
9. Linfield-shelton was great...but he's gone right? think they lost a lot more as well

Finally, have to disagree on the conference tourney question...think its great, keeps a lot of the teams alive in late january when they'd probably be playing for pride (and some aren't very good at that)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: so_cal_connection on November 01, 2005, 09:53:41 PM
The newcomer to watch this year in the Northwest Conference is James Pickney at Puget Sound.  He's a 6'7" forward from San Diego who can fjump out of the gym and is very, very athletic.  Had several D1 opportunities, but chose to get a great education and have a better basketball experience.  Too bad Cross left, had he stayed they could've seriously challenged for the D3 national title with the addition of Pickney. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 02, 2005, 12:50:23 AM
Any examples of east coast / midwest bias?? Look at the top 25 every year.  In recent history the NWC hardly ever has more than one team in (with the exception of lin/lc) about 5 years ago.  Why is this when it is one of the best D3 conferences in the nation (look at the Massey Ratings!) ??? Anyways, I'm over it.

Himjay--Disagree, I think Wells from lc is far and away the best shooter in the league.  Who is your MVP?
Finally, can you explain to me how you choose Hayford as COTY with UPS finishing first?  It just doesnt add up for me!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2005, 01:16:42 AM
You're confusing two things that have nothing to do with each other, Blackhawks4. The D3hoops.com Top 25 has nothing to do with the NCAA selection committee choosing Pool C (at-large) teams for the tournament. Nothing at all. The D3hoops.com Top 25 is a private poll run by a private site.

You started this conversation by grousing about an NWC champ likely being left out in the cold with regard to Pool C thanks to the NWC tournament. Now you've moved on to this site's Top 25. As I said, two different, unrelated things.

Pat asked you for an example of a west coast team being unjustly shut out of Pool C. You didn't provide one. You merely cited that the NWC has had only one Pool C selection in the past five years (if, indeed, you're referring to the tournament and not still referring to the D3hoops.com Top 25 with that aside about Linfield and Lewis & Clark). But that's not proof. Which is the team that should've gotten in over that time, and which team should they have pushed out?

I still don't see any evidence that you're familiar with the way that the NCAA D3 tourney is set up with regard to at-large selections. Your charge of midwest and east coast bias remains specious.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 02, 2005, 03:23:26 AM
Mr. Sager, my intention was to point out that the NWC and West Coast does not get represented as it should. 

I understand that the top 25 has nothing to do with the selection committee.  I 've seen highly ranked teams left out in past years.

You asked for bias and I drew attention to the Top 25.  Where the massey ratings put the NWC in the top 3 conferences in years past, we rarely had more than one team ranked at at time.

Its hard to point out bias in the tournament because our pool c had been so limited that many qualified teams were left out.  But how about this for bias.

It is financially hard for west coast d3 teams to get in region games due to proximity.  The NCAA uses in region games and records as a major criteria as you pointed out.  In a tough NWC, teams  hammer on each other (as we agreed upon) hurting their record.  With few other in region D3 games (other than cactus jam or taveling great distances for D3 games) often NWC teams are penalized because they can't get enough nonconference D3 action.  Now I don't know how this problem can be fixed, but you cannot deny that it exists.

Or what about our teams historically having to go to the midwest or east for playoffs?  The only reason UPS hosted 2 years back was because the stevens point women got the bid.  I understand the financial reasoning behind it, but is that fair?  What about LC going east for playoffs when they had their great teams a few years back.  Whether it can be controlled or not or its intentional or not its an unfair act based on location and finances.     

East coast teams have a better chance at making the tournament and getting at large bids despite the fact that the NWC is historically one of the best around. If you really feel there is no bias than fine, but I disagree.   

Now I'm sure you'll respond and make very good points (as you have in your previous posts) but I'm ready to talk NWC, because I really don't find this as interesting.

Loggers go to San Jose State saturday.   






Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2005, 04:01:59 AM
I asked for evidence of bias with regard to the D3 tournament, which is what we were talking about. Hence, this quote of yours that raised the question of bias:

Quote from: blackhawks4 on October 28, 2005, 02:27:13 AM
Mr. Sager, good point, I was not aware of the expansion of pool c teams.  However, it still does not change my opinion.  You and I both know that a 3rd place team in the NWC can end up with a 9-7 or 10-6 record.  That team has no business representing our league in the tourney if they pull off an upset.    If I'm not mistaken there are well over 350 teams in D3, and unlike D1,  4 and 5 teams from one conference will not make the tourney.  I disagree, I think there is a good chance that a first place team can get overlooked, especially with the midwest and east coast bias.      The team that wins the most league games over the course of the season should have the automatic bid.

If you have an issue with the D3hoops.com Top 25, re: that poll being out of sync with the Massey ratings, take that up with Pat Coleman. It's a completely different discussion than this one.

In the quote above you explicitly linked the possibility of a 15-1 NWC champ getting left out of Pool C after losing in the NWC tourney to midwest and east coast bias. It seems to me that you've tried to change the argument from one in which you're questioning the NCAA selection committee to one in which you're questioning the integrity of Pat's Top 25 poll. I simply ask that you stick to one argument at a time.

It's true that the NWC is handicapped by geography in terms of scheduling West Region non-conf games. But that doesn't affect the way NWC teams are treated by the five Pool C criteria, which are:

* win-lose percentage against regional opponents;
* Quality of Wins Index;
* In-region head-to-head competition;
* In-region results versus common regional opponents;
* In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

These criteria were, in fact, set up to help allay the problem faced by geographically remote conferences such as yours and the ASC and the SCIAC -- namely, the annual shortage of non-conference regional games due to distance constraints.

Notice that the first criterion is based upon win-lose percentage. Say the NWC champ goes 13-3 in conference, doesn't play any non-conference West Region games, and loses the NWC tourney championship. That makes them 13-4 (.764) in the West Region for the season -- and it gives them a leg up on a Pool C aspirant from a more geographically central league that played a lot more games within their region and went, say, 18-6 (.750).

The second criterion is likewise quantity-neutral. Quality of Wins Index is measured by the 15-to-0 scale (15 points awarded for a road victory over a team with a regional winning percentage at or above .667, 14 points awarded for a home victory over a team with a regional winning percentage at or above .667, 13 points awarded for a road victory over a team with a regional winning percentage between .500 and .666, etc., on down to 0 points awarded for a home loss to a team with a regional winning percentage below .333). You add up the points you earned in each regional game, be it win or loss, and divide it by the number of games you've played in the region. In other words, playing more games within the region (as most other D3 teams tend to do in comparison to NWC teams) doesn't improve your chances of having a higher QoWI.

The third, fourth, and fifth criteria will most likely be irrelevant in the case of a NWC or SCIAC Pool C aspirant, unless there's another regionally-ranked opponent or Pool C aspirant within the conference. Some of the also-ran teams from more geographically central leagues that likewise aspire to get their name called for Pool C on Selection Sunday do well in these three categories, others do poorly. By dint of their lack of games against regionally-ranked opponents, head-to-head games against (or common opponents with) other West Region teams seeking a Pool C bid, etc., NWC teams will be pretty much even-steven in these categories.

In other words, the penalty for not being able to play many (if any) West Region non-conference games doesn't exist. Rather, the NWC plays on a slightly different scale of regional competition in which most, if not all, of their regional games are played within their own conference. It makes the conference season all the more important in your league, if anything. And the argument about this being a handicap because the NWC beats itself up so much doesn't hold any water, because every league makes that claim. In fact, your regionmates in Wisconsin harp on that point more than anybody else on Posting Up, because the widespread perception in D3 is that the WIAC is the toughest league in the land and they therefore ought to have more Pool C teams than they do -- but they can't get them because the WIAC cannibalizes itself in league play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2005, 04:05:56 AM
As for the point about travel and the lack of hosting opportunities afforded to the NWC, that, too, is a separate argument that has nothing to do with Pool C bids. I agree that it isn't fair, although you and I both know that the parsimony of D3 (our national tournament, after all, is a money loser and it's essentially bankrolled by D1) is the reason behind it rather than bias.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 02, 2005, 07:44:24 AM
Bearcats fan- in regards to LC not having Magnuson..that will explain why the team will go 100% uptempo and launch as many 3's as possible.  Should be interesting if Tommy does come back or he sits it out to save a year. 

Thanks for the info on Willamette.  John Olinger is back for them.  That is good.  I remember that kid as a little 8th grade punk, and now look at him.  hahahaha.  Not a big Willamette fan coming from LC and all, but hope he does well. 

This league has always been exciting and something can always happen.  I know UPS is stacked, but the ball is round, and you never know.  Expecting Bridgeland to have UPS ready to go though, so will be hard for the others to catch up.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 03, 2005, 06:33:43 AM
blackhawks,  the reason I have Hayford winning coach of the year is because I think everyone expects Puget to run away with the league this year, which they might, but I think Whitworth will finish 13-3, possibly 14-2 and beat Puget when they play them at home. If this happens then I think Hayford will deserve it. With regards to Wells, he is a great shooter, even though he went through a tough year shooting the ball in 04-05. I do expect him to be back to his old self hitting around 40%. I'd say the top 3 shooters in the league are Wells, Young, and Aaron Schmick. Others right up there are Kawazoe at Pacific, Robinowitz LC, and Oliver PLU.  George Fox should also contend for the playoffs, but the loss of Gayman, who was not only the teams top player but also their unquestioned leader, will be just a little too much to overcome.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: HopeHoopsFan on November 03, 2005, 07:16:10 PM
 test
Title: Threepeat Anyone?
Post by: Loggerville on November 03, 2005, 11:52:26 PM
Well, seems we all agree this is a race for second, so best wishes to  the rest of the NWC for moral victories.

And while I would agree with Blawkhacks4 - a smooth court operator in his day I might add - that geographical isolation is an issue for the NWC schools in general, the programs need to take the responsibility for that.  Bridgeland has done a job of trying to get the UPS squad out of the area to play non-conference games of meaning - traveling to the South region two years ago comes to mind, along with this year's Cali match-ups - but the rest of the conference needs to follow the lead. 

If Presidents and AD's are going to join an NCAA Div. III, then funding needs to follow to allow for travel and the scheduling of DIII competition out of the NW.  Pacific last season played no DIII games other than the conference schedule I believe.  Until the conference as a whole takes seriously the issue of building national cred. by going and playing folks, it is hard to argue with the lack of respect at the regional and national level.

That being said, the Logger have done a job of getting their individual institution respect, and winning home games and providing quality NCAA play-off games is a good start.

Should be a good season, and don't sleep on R Jay Barsh, he's a NWC POY canadiate for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2005, 12:31:19 AM
Quote from: Loggerville on November 03, 2005, 11:52:26 PM
And while I would agree with Blawkhacks4 - a smooth court operator in his day I might add - that geographical isolation is an issue for the NWC schools in general, the programs need to take the responsibility for that. Bridgeland has done a job of trying to get the UPS squad out of the area to play non-conference games of meaning - traveling to the South region two years ago comes to mind, along with this year's Cali match-ups - but the rest of the conference needs to follow the lead.

If Presidents and AD's are going to join an NCAA Div. III, then funding needs to follow to allow for travel and the scheduling of DIII competition out of the NW. Pacific last season played no DIII games other than the conference schedule I believe. Until the conference as a whole takes seriously the issue of building national cred. by going and playing folks, it is hard to argue with the lack of respect at the regional and national level.

Well said, and I'd add that it appears that the presidents and ADs of D3 are making a concerted effort to help out NWC and its fellow geographical isolates in that regard. There's a proposal on the table for action at next year's D3 convocation to turn all games between D3 opponents that are played five days removed from a class day -- in other words, games played over Christmas break -- into regional games. In other words, an NWC team could go to the Cactus Jam and have every single game they play count as a regional game, even if they're playing the likes of Amherst, Alfred, Albion, or Augustana, as long as that team is a member of D3. And an NWC team that travels to La-La-Land and participates in a SCIAC tournament over the holidays would no longer have to hope that they get scheduled against a SCIAC, WIAC, IIAC, or MIAC team -- every game in that tournament played against a D3 team would count as a regional game, regardless of the home region of the foe.

If this proposal passes, it could be a real boon to solving the problem of the NWC not playing enough non-conference West Region games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 04, 2005, 06:37:28 PM
Guys- please excuse my ignorance on the selections and game count issues, as I am still catching up to this.  Do the games against quality teams not count anymore?  Meaning, if a D3 plays a D2 for example and wins, does that help them, hurt them, or doesnt matter?

I agree 100% that the NWC teams have to leave the area and stop playing the other schools in the NW.  LC has been doing it for years, UPS is consistant now with it and Whitworth has done a good job of things since my time in the 90's, but the other schools are just too inconsistant with it. 

With regards to the money for the budgets...that is a hard situation to overcome.  Look at what happened to Pio football.  Season cut short due to lack of players, which is points at a lack of recruiting, lack of school help, lack of money.  That said, most of these schools will not spend if their team is not "that good".  I really feel that if all the schools had the reputation of UPS or LC (a few years ago with Scott Davis, Oriard and the group) in D3 then the school would spend a little more because they are 1) representing the school 2) spreading the name of the school to all over the nation. 

The schools and administrators have to realize there is more to sports than just sports.  Some schools have great support, but some do not.  A personal opinion that things need to be changed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2005, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: piofan on November 04, 2005, 06:37:28 PM
Guys- please excuse my ignorance on the selections and game count issues, as I am still catching up to this. Do the games against quality teams not count anymore? Meaning, if a D3 plays a D2 for example and wins, does that help them, hurt them, or doesnt matter?

Don't worry, Piofan -- the methodology that D3 uses for tournament selection is pretty byzantine by anybody's standards.

To answer your question: No, games played against non-D3 teams (D1, D2, NAIA, NCCAA, etc.) do not count in terms of the selection committee's criteria. In fact, they never did. The D3 tournament has been based strictly upon D3 vs. D3 competition since long before your league entered the division in the late '90s. Non-D3 games still count on a team's record, but they're irrelevant in terms of postseason play.

The more pertinent point, though, is that a lot of D3 vs. D3 games don't count, either. The criteria are now completely regionally-based. In other words, how an NWC team fares against a team such as Elmhurst or Eastern Nazarene or Emory & Henry is just as irrelevant as how they do against a D2 team. The committee only looks at how an NWC team does against other West Region (NWC, SCIAC, WIAC, MIAC, and IIAC) teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 04, 2005, 07:15:31 PM
Greg Sager-  I find that absolutely crazy.  I knew the selection process and everything was a bit off when I was explained it by the LC coaches during Scott Davis years.  Didnt get it then, still dont get it.

I just dont understand how a game against another D3 or higher can not be counted.  I know the D1 selection looks at that kind of thing.  If a team played too many D2's then they will probably get omitted from the field.  Shouldnt it be the opposite for the D3's?! I'll "give" them the NAIA schools not counting.  Dont agree with that also since I have seen some really really good players and teams at that level.  But ok.  Just seems strange to me that you cant count something that is suppose to be making you better.  This is probably been discussed for years on years. 

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2005, 07:57:23 PM
Actually, D1 teams aren't penalized for playing games against D2 or D3 or NAIA teams. They just don't get credit for them. Those games aren't added onto their RPI or figured into their pertinent (as opposed to actual) records. In effect, they're simply irrelevant in the same way that they're irrelevant for tournament purposes from the point of view of the D2 or D3 team.

There's several reasons why games against D1 or D2 teams don't count for tournament purposes. First, not every D3 team gets the opportunity to play an NCAA scholarship team. Since those games don't count for their (D1 or D2) tournament purposes either, they don't tend to draw as well, and they usually don't provide much in the way of competition, D1 and D2 teams don't have much incentive anymore to schedule D3 teams. Such games still exist, of course, but there aren't as many as there used to be -- particularly in terms of D1 vs. D3. Counting such games would therefore constitute an uneven playing field in terms of D3 tournament merit.

Second, one of the expressed purposes of D3 is to facilitate competition within the division. The whole idea behind D3 is that it consists of like-minded schools that share a common philosophy regarding the student-athlete. D3 wants to encourage its schools to play each other (in fact, it goes one step beyond that -- it wants to encourage its schools to play their near neighbors within D3, which is why the tournament is based upon regional criteria). Encouraging games against non-D3 competition works at cross-purposes to that.

Lastly, D3 has some modicum of control over gauging the competitive level within itself -- screwy and haphazard though it may be. Gauging non-D3 competition is something that's completely out of their hands.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 05, 2005, 05:42:59 AM
That all makes a lot of sense in creating more D3 vs D3 action, and think thats a great idea.  In regards to competing with the scholorship schools, I still think there should be a small bonus (not saying it is a lot by any means) for playing these teams.  Just a personal thought.  I think playing the "big boys" makes teams and programs better. 

The part I do not get is the not  counting of games outside of the region.  I think a D3 vs D3 game should count no matter what.  It also allows some programs to be able to travel a little bit more.  Always fun for the kids.  At least they are trying to make the Christmas Break schedule like that. 

In regards to the Midwest teams and East teams having better chances at tournament time, that seems real easy for me to understand.  More schools, more opportunity to play in the region.  I do not think that is too much.  A bit unfair, maybe, but in the rules.  Remember the NWC decide to go D3, and that is part of the game that needs to be played.  The answer is simple, go to California and play as many games as you can to get the count up.  Again, assuming I am reading and understanding correctly.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 05, 2005, 11:09:55 AM
Playing the big boys does make D3 teams better (and richer, incidentally, since D1 and D2 teams are required to give gate guarantees to their D3 visitors). But D3 presidents, ADs, and coaches tend to view that as reward enough. It's all the incentive that's needed to schedule those games. Giving D3 teams actual tournament-relevant credit for them would be more trouble than it's worth.

You're basically preaching to the choir with regard to your statement that all D3 vs. D3 games should count for tournament purposes, since that's an almost-universal belief on Posting Up. Nevertheless, I do understand the reasoning behind D3's leadership electing to make only regional games tournament-relevant, even though I don't agree with it. Time spent traveling long distances on buses (or, in the NWC's case, planes) in order to play games means time spent away from the classroom. In D3's philosophy the classroom is paramount, and every attempt should be made to keep D3 student-athletes from missing class time. Contrast that with D1, where the mercenaries who are disguised as student-athletes miss half of their classes because they're flying from one end of the continent to the other in the middle of the week for basketball games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 05, 2005, 05:46:37 PM
I agree with the classroom thought process of D3, but of course the next question would be, how can you not count D3 games when school is out of session during the semester break.  Glad they want to fix that now, and better late than never, but should have been done a long time ago since it doesnt effect the classroom. (again, probably the choir here singing also)

And if they are worried about classroom time, then its easy for the schools in CA, to fly up and NWC to fly down.  You could leave late Friday, play Saturday and Sunday, and still catch flights back.  So seems to me the schools need to try and fix their schedules to do this to maximixe their chances.  Then use the semester break to head to Texas, Arizona, and the East Coast (I think I saw these places on different schedules). 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 06, 2005, 02:02:08 AM
The NWC just came out with the preseason coaches poll:

1-Puget Sound-all 9 first place votes-90pts
2-George Fox-62 pts
3-Whitworth-61 pts
4-Willamette-50 pts
5-Lewis & Clark-45 pts
6-Linfield-36 pts
7-Whitman-35 pts
8-PLU-20 pts
9-Pacific-15 pts

Thoughts, reaction?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 06, 2005, 06:06:34 PM
UPS lost 107-90 to san jose st.  Not bad playing without McVey.  As everyone knows I'm as big a UPS fan as there is, but they are young!!!  They're really gonna  need great leadership if they're gonna run through the NWC as expected.  If anyone can do it, its the 4 seniors they have now.  But, after the UPS starting 5, everyone else is unproven.  And with the way they play, they're gonna need more than 5.

Himjay, I'm so confused as to how Hayford becomes more qualified than Bridgeland for COTY if UPS goes 15-1 as you said.  That would make UPS only um... 45-3 in the NWC in 3 years.  Whitworth and Linfield should be the class of the NWC year in and year out.  Their facilities, reputation, administration, fan, booster support, and correct me if I'm wrong but budget exceed everyone elses.  Whther they've underachieved or UPS has overachieved, no coach is more deserving than Puget Sound's. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 06, 2005, 07:16:47 PM
You make a strong point.  I should have said however, that I think puget will end up 14-2 or 13-3. I think they will lose at Whitworth and they will be upset by someone along the likes of George Fox, Willamette. If both teams finish in the 14-2, 13-3 range then Hayford should get it. I do agree though, with what your saying about Whitworths budget and the facilities they have.  I said that the loggers would be 15-1 before I knew that Cross would not be with them this year.  Also, does anyone know why McVey didn't play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on November 08, 2005, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: Himjay23 on November 06, 2005, 07:16:47 PM
does anyone know why McVey didn't play?

I was told that he hadn't been feeling well last week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 09, 2005, 02:52:27 AM
COTY always comes down to the way teams perform.  If UPS is challenged at all in more than a game or two and still win, Bridgeland should win it.  But if UPS blows everyone out of the water than that is great recruiting to get better players and not necessarily better coaching.

If another team, say WW or a team from the bottom of the coaches poll makes the playoffs, then look for that coach to win the COTY.  I personally think Bridgeland, despite all the great things he has done, may be out of the running at the start of the season, because he is expected to do so well.  No arguments from me he is a great coach, just another thought as to why another coach probably wins COTY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on November 10, 2005, 11:31:22 AM
Zack McVey isnt even an Honorable Mention All-American?!  Ridiculous!  You cant tell me there are 10 better D3 big men out there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 14, 2005, 06:19:57 PM
Have to agree with SpooH SreggoLregarding McVey.   ???  Perhaps McVey can tape this list inside his locker and remind himself of the haters out there each night.  Scary when he plays with passion.

As for
Quote from: piofan on November 09, 2005, 02:52:27 AM
COTY always comes down to the way teams perform. If UPS is challenged at all in more than a game or two and still win, Bridgeland should win it. But if UPS blows everyone out of the water than that is great recruiting to get better players and not necessarily better coaching.

This makes no sense to me.  Last time I checked, recruiting was in a coaches' job description, so "punishing" a coach for having better talent on the floor is just crazy.  In fact, you could make an argument that by having more talent suit up and take to the floor, Bridgeland is outworking his peers not just on game night but over the course of a season. 

I'll grant you that game day coaching is an important part of selecting a COY, but selecting a coach who takes an average team and has them over perform for a few weeks is rewarding one type of achievement.  Recruiting talent, getting that talent to by into a system of play that doesn't highlight individuals, and responding to everyone's best shot night in and night is no small achievement.  Blowing teams out of the water is not a result of grabbing kids, handing them jerseys and having them roll-up tough NWC teams.  It is a committment to a program that goes beyond game day.  That is plenty to qualify one for COY in my opinion.  Expectations aside, the winner of the NWC should get the award.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 14, 2005, 10:50:07 PM
Loggerville-  I agree with 100% that recruiting is part of the job, and that it should go into the COY award, but if a coach's team that plays better than expected for the whole year is going to have better chances.  For years, the COY is based on the season and not the whole year.  I know Bridgelands work ethic personally, and he deserves it already, but if another team gives him a run for his money, then that other coach will probably get COY. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2005, 01:36:02 AM
Be sure to head over to the Multi-Regional Topics Board and select your team for the new Survivor Pool!  :D

You might actually win something!  ;D

Deadline is Friday before the first game's tipoff
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 17, 2005, 10:46:05 AM
Season officially starting tomorrow.  Some games that could be interesting:

PLU @ Eastern Washington

L&C vs. Colorado-Pueblo (D2)

Pacific vs. Southern Oregon

Should be VERY hard for any of these three to pull of an upset.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 17, 2005, 03:52:01 PM
Should be very hard.  LC should hoist a lot of threes.  They put up 72 against Oregon State in their exhibition game.  They took 88 shots in all.  Going to be interesting year on Palatine Hill. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 17, 2005, 04:28:08 PM
From what I see, it should be a long year as well. Once teams just start daring them to take it inside or the three isn't falling, just like at OSU, they really don't have much of a chance. Also, the 5 in, 5 out formula works for Grinnell and Redlands, but if you only have a few guys who can hit outside shots like LC, it doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2005, 12:38:41 AM
Quote from: Loggerville on November 14, 2005, 06:19:57 PM
Have to agree with SpooH SreggoLregarding McVey.   ???  Perhaps McVey can tape this list inside his locker and remind himself of the haters out there each night.  Scary when he plays with passion.

Two things come to mind:

1) He doesn't always play with passion??
2) Just because someone isn't on a preseason team, or in a preseason poll, doesn't mean we hate him. There are 390 men's basketball teams and 25 slots, so with 1,950 starters alone in Division III and over 200 first-team all-conference players, keep in mind the competition is fierce.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 21, 2005, 02:54:39 AM
After these first few games, here are some thoughts on how the league looks this year. I know its very early but here are some observations.

1- The league looks to be a lot more balanced this year. Whitman and Linfield both started the season with wins against decent competition.  I think every team will be able to come up with at least 6-7 conference wins excluding Pacific and maybe PLU.

2-George Fox looked really good. They have plenty of talented guards to go with a solid big man in Szalay. They could be a major threat to UPS.

3-Some really big scoring games early on from players. Heu-Weller putting up 32 in 33 min and Olinger going off for 29.

4-Puget Sound beatable.... Only time will tell if they are deserving of such a high ranking
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 21, 2005, 09:08:38 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2005, 12:38:41 AM
Two things come to mind:
1) He doesn't always play with passion??
2) Just because someone isn't on a preseason team, or in a preseason poll, doesn't mean we hate him. There are 390 men's basketball teams and 25 slots, so with 1,950 starters alone in Division III and over 200 first-team all-conference players, keep in mind the competition is fierce.

Pat - Thanks for the comment.  I don't believe I insinuated that you, or anyone on the selection committee for that matter, "hated" anyone; not earning a spot on a preseason all-America team shouldn't, and in this case I am sure isn't, a reflection of a voters personal feelings about a player.  I am aware of how many quality players there are in the nation at this level, and particularly at the forward position.  Like you I would guess, I haven't seen all of them play, and since this is the NWC board and I am clearly a Logger fan I see no surprise in my pulling for McVey. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on November 22, 2005, 02:01:45 AM
Quote from: Loggerville on November 21, 2005, 09:08:38 AM
Like you I would guess, I haven't seen all of them play, and since this is the NWC board and I am clearly a Logger fan I see no surprise in my pulling for McVey.

I don't think it is fair to give any award based on your favorite team...otherwise Isaiah Stanback would win the Heisman and Manase Hopoi would win the Outland Trophy.  I also like Sonny Shackelford to win the Biletnikoff and Ty Willingham to win the Coach of the Year. 

There are many good players in DIII hoops...but a preseason award is not as valuable as any post-season honor.  Preseason polls mean nothing.  Look at Penn State in the Big 10.  Receiving a preseason award means that someone expects you to be good...but let's save the complaining for the end of the year...after the season.  It is nice to receive recognition; however, expectations tend to lead to disappointment.  I know Zack Mcvey is a dominant post player; but, I think an equal complaint could could be made for overlooking Chase Curtiss.  He is a phenominal competitor and a fantastic leader.  He plays under control yet with an intense fire.  The Loggers succeed because he is an amazing person on the court and in the locker room.  They are both fun to watch...and Zack has put in some serious time in the weight room.  Let those two play...and they will receive the awards based on their performance and not their hype.  All players should.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 22, 2005, 08:35:26 AM
Big Dave, couldn't agree with you more on letting play decide where the awards end up, esp. at the end of the year.  I'd also agree that Chase Curtiss is an extremely talented player and deserving of consideration for preseason awards as well; the guard spot is just much tougher to get separation among the many talented players, particularly the way the all-america teams broke out with fewer spots for G than F/C.

For the record however, I am not "giving" away awards to a favorite player as you suggest.  Pulling for a returning all-conference selection, arguably the best big man in the NWC, and a key player on the preseason #4 ranked team to get some national recognition for his program and the NWC isn't a thing like wishing Ty Willingham would win coach of the year; my position isn't indefensible and outlandish.  I think we play some pretty good DIII basketball out west and frankly would like to see the players from out here get the recognition they deserve.  Curtiss, McVey, or anyone of the other worthy players from the NWC would be fine with me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on November 22, 2005, 04:35:41 PM
Blackhawk4~

Did you play in the Alumni game???  How many did you have?? I envision something like 44pts, 11boards, & 7dimes.  Maybe you didn't play.  The Alumni did lose.  I will be at the game on Friday PM.  I hope that the atmosphere has improved from my expensive tenure at the University.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 22, 2005, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: Big Dave on November 22, 2005, 04:35:41 PM
I hope that the atmosphere has improved from my expensive tenure at the University.

Keep in mind that it is Thanksgiving Break so school is out and the student section will be smaller because of it.  The games have been well attended in recent years (ave. attendance 1011).  Enjoy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pugetmr on November 23, 2005, 05:35:10 PM
I have met numerous people...and I believe that I am one of those individuals...that can dominate an entire gym with their loud voice.  I love going on the road to the crowded gyms and being louder than their crowd.  Even when you lose...you still get love from the home crowd.  I once got to go with Hayford and the rest of the Whitworth basketball team to pizza after a game.  I did know some of their players.  Unless you are an idiot...You can be loud and crazy and most of the time the opponents fans will be cool.  It is when you chant dumb/inappropriate things that crowds tend to get mad. 

School spirit should be fun...but I find that most the students at UPS are too rich or too liberal to care about anything that much.  This is also why UPS only gets donations from (around) 15% of its alumni.  Most the students don't care about the University outside of their four years there.  Most the time they don't even care while they are there.  Most just want their degree...and they miss the full collegiate experience.  Average attendance does not mean that they care.  If they really cared, students would go to all the games even if UPS wasn't good.  When UPS wasn't as good...the attendance was much worse.  I find it hard to believe that students genuinely care now.  Apathy isn't changed in 5-10 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 25, 2005, 06:36:50 AM
QuoteThis is also why UPS only gets donations from (around) 15% of its alumni.

My uncle played ball for UPS in the 80's and I know that a lot of the alumni were upset when UPS went from D2 to D3 and changed the colors. Plus many do not like Bridgeland because he has almost erased all memory of basketball prior to him, even went so far as to try and have the championship banner removed from the gym. This may explain some of the lack of alumni support.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pugetmr on November 26, 2005, 04:51:29 AM
There are many good reasons why UPS fails to get alumni support; but, I am almost certain that Bridgeland is not the reason.  This is a dilemma UPS has dealt with since the 90's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 26, 2005, 05:53:12 AM
Speaking of UPS, they lost last night at home to Warner Pacific. Not quite the start people thought they would get off to. From their first two games they look very vulnerable this year.
Title: Early Results
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 28, 2005, 01:09:02 PM
UPS loss to Warner Pac was very surprising (although many have said WPac is a legitimate threat in the Cascade Conference)...especially on the Loggers home floor.  Anyone go to the game?

Willamette posted an impressive early season win, beating #4 (NAIA) Oregon Tech, but then lost to Southern (#2 NAIA) the next night...the Bearcats have been very good Friday nights so far, and then find ways to lose games Saturday...

Question: With so many battles between the Cascade and Northwest Conferences, anyone have any thoughts on which league is better right now? (IMO: The Cascade has a few standout players that the NWC can't match in Fiegi and Shea Washington, but I'll still take the coaching and overall teams in the NWC)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 28, 2005, 03:25:38 PM
Great question. Your right, despite the cascade having those few big name players, I would take the NWC overall. The teams are much better coached and seem to play together much better them some of the cascade teams.   I have been to roughly 10 games with either NWC or CCC teams in them this year and overall intensity of the games seems to be much higher in the Northwest. Despite the Loggers loss, I would still take them, Whitworth, and Willamette over any Cascade squad this year.
Title: WU-LC
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 30, 2005, 11:54:16 AM
Willamette wins easily, 89-64, at LC...Bearcats looked ok in the first half, but played very well in the 2nd half...Stuvland had a big game, and the Fife kid from Canby was very good off the bench...

With the way LC presses, the UPS game Friday should be fun to watch...lots of points to be had...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on December 03, 2005, 01:15:23 AM
George Fox just had the most amazing comeback I have ever seen in my life!  Down by over 20 in the second half, they came back to tie it as time ran out and took it in over time.

Props to the GFU team!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 03, 2005, 10:48:38 AM
Good balanced win for the Loggers on the road; after a slower first-half then some may have expected they went of one of the runs that have defined UPS hoops of late - a 30-4 run over 9 min.  early in the second half that turned a one-point def.  into a 25-point advantage.  Only ten turnovers for the Loggers has to make the coaching staff happy as well.  On to Pacific.

Nice win for GFU was well over the Rats...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on December 04, 2005, 12:36:24 AM
Much better game for the Bruins tonight, they still will need to pick it up another notch or two for when Corban comes to thier gym next Tuesday.

There's only one word to describe the first 33 minutes of Bruin play Friday night, and that word is UGLY. The only thing that kept them in the game at all was Szalay. For the first 25 minutes of the game Szalay scored over half of the teams points, and in the first half while the rest of the team whent 2-21 from the field, Szalay was 5-7. It was he that tipped the ball in as time was expiring to put the game into overtime, and it was his 19 board and 4 blocks that controlled the key.
If Szalay can step up again Tuesday night against Corban and Fiegi, look for there there to be a different outcome for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tezbaseball on December 06, 2005, 05:57:19 PM
Any one know if a Kelsey is playing for Pacific this season?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on December 07, 2005, 02:42:21 AM
Nope
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tezbaseball on December 07, 2005, 12:17:22 PM
Quote from: Himjay23 on December 07, 2005, 02:42:21 AM
Nope

You don't no or there is no Kelsey playing this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on December 07, 2005, 01:22:50 PM
Sorry for not being more specific, he's not on the team.  Also, Lowery doing a great job so far up there with very little to work with.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tezbaseball on December 07, 2005, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: Himjay23 on December 07, 2005, 01:22:50 PM
Sorry for not being more specific, he's not on the team.  Also, Lowery doing a great job so far up there with very little to work with.

Is he still on the church mission or did AJ transfer?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 09, 2005, 04:07:11 PM
I see that Puget Sound is coming to Southern California for games on the 18th, 19th, and 21st (in Pasadena and Riverside), and again on the 29th and 30th (at Westmont.)  Since Christmas falls in between, I assume they are not staying in the Southland for that intervening week.  Right?  ???  Does anyone think that all that travel (three trips up and down the coast in 10 days) will have any effect on the Loggers prior to their big game against #1 Illinois Wesleyan on the 29th?  Are there maybe some UPS players from SoCal that will stay and not return to the Northwest between these games?  Just curious; I hope UPS is good and fresh for that IWU game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 10, 2005, 03:14:04 PM
I wouldn't worry about plane  the travel too much.  The flights are short - actually shorter than the conference bus trips - the time zones the same, and the trips are far enough apart that they shouldn't effect each other.

The question would be when is IWU coming into town, and how will a 2000+ mile trip treat their legs?  Should be a good test for both teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2005, 08:20:59 PM
IWU flies into LAX on 12/27 and drives up to Santa Barbara.  They'll practice 12/28 before the games on 12/29-30.

IWU vs Puget Sound should be a great game...looking forward to seeing the Loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 12, 2005, 11:53:51 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on December 11, 2005, 08:20:59 PM
IWU flies into LAX on 12/27 and drives up to Santa Barbara. They'll practice 12/28 before the games on 12/29-30.

IWU vs Puget Sound should be a great game...looking forward to seeing the Loggers.

Thanks for the update Titan Q...should be a good one for sure.  You may not know, but when was the last time IWU came to the West coast for games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: castle on December 13, 2005, 02:52:27 PM
Last time that I know IWU was out west was back in '01-'02...  I was on the CLU team that IWU beat 97-71 on the day after new years.  That IWU team went 12-13, but they were well rested and prepared for that game...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 15, 2005, 11:24:21 PM
Thanks for the info...I figured it wasn't often they made it our west.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 16, 2005, 08:43:10 AM
Loggerville and Castle, Illinois Wesleyan takes a trip between Christmas and New Year's every year.  The last trips to the "west" have been...

2002-03: Hawaii
IWU 76
St. John's 56

IWU 89
UW-Stout 75

IWU 68
Nebraska Wesleyan 56

2001-02: Southern California
U. of Alberta 82
IWU 76
(@ Westmont College)

IWU 73
St. Xavier 67
(@Westmont College)

IWU 97
Cal Lutheran 71

1998-99: Hawaii
Chaminade 80
IWU 73

IWU 92
BYU-Hawaii 87

Hawaii Pacific 89
IWU 71

1996-97: Southern California
IWU 82
Concordia (CA) 77

IWU 83
Montana St - Northern 79
(@ Westmont College)

IWU 68
Westmont 60
(@ Westmont College)


The 1996-97 team wasn't supposed to be any good.  IWU graduated 4 starters and 7 of the top 8 from a Final Four team.  I believe the Titans were picked 5th by the coaches in the preseason CCIW coaches poll.  When the Titans came back from California 11-0 with wins over what Dennie Bridges felt were really good Concordia and Westmont teams, you could tell he started to feel like he had some special developing.  IWU went on to finish 29-2 and win a national championship that season. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on December 16, 2005, 03:41:52 PM
IWU's trips are everywhere.  As a member of the 97-98 LC team, we lost to them in Florida around New Year's during a tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 19, 2005, 12:58:13 AM
UPS beat Penn St.-Behrend 98-83 tonight at CalTech.  I'm not anxious to draw conclusions based on one game, far from home, against a mediocre opponent,  but UPS wasn't very impressive tonight.  Their defense was intense and kept Behrend off-balance most of the night, but the offense was ragged.  It's possible that they were taking this trip lightly, so I'll reserve the benefit of the doubt.  But if I'm Illinois Wesleyan (and I'm NOT  :)), I'm not too scared at this point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 19, 2005, 10:38:15 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 19, 2005, 12:58:13 AM
but UPS wasn't very impressive tonight.  Their defense was intense and kept Behrend off-balance most of the night, but the offense was ragged.

Dave, sounds like you saw UPS basketball as it has become as of late – controlled ciaos.  Defensive pressure is their hallmark, so if that was there last night - as you indicate - I wouldn't worry too much about the offensive.  If the team can put up 98 and have three scorers over 18 on a night the offense looked "ragged" then Logger fans will take it.  Coming off a flight, finals week that ended Dec. 15th, and just over two weeks since the last game I wouldn't have expected a world beating effort last night.  Should get one tonight as well and then see how the game against UC Riverside goes on the 21st.

Titan Q, thanks for the update on the schedule/travel.  They have had some good trips and success as well; looking forward to their trip West this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 1992 on December 19, 2005, 02:19:47 PM
Has anyone seen Pacific play?  I know about Kawazzoe, but do they have anyone else?

Lowery has them at 6-3 with their only losses being to UPS and Southern Oregon twice, and it looks like they played them well in Ashland the second time. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 22, 2005, 12:32:46 AM
Loggers rally from 13 def. at half to drop UC-Riverside 115-111.  Anyone know the last NWC win over a D1 team?   ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 22, 2005, 12:40:26 AM
WOW! Watch out when you come to Cali Illinois Wesleyan, the Loggers seem comfortable down there! 115-111 over D1 UC Riverside
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2005, 01:51:54 AM
Illinois Wesleyan is significantly better than UC Riverside.

Congratulations to Puget Sound, however. We love any D-III win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 22, 2005, 08:31:29 AM
Congrats, Loggers!  Looking forward to the big game in Santa Barbara! 

Here is what I posted on CCIW Chat this morning...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the second time this season IWU will face a team recently after a D1 win.  On 11/23 NAIA D1 St. Xavier defeated Illinois-Chicago 74-73.  IWU defeated the Cougars 81-61 on 11/28. 

Now, before we make too much of the Puget Sound win over UC Riverside, let's realize that Riverside is now 0-8.  Their losses are...

@ Washington St 55-86
@ U. of Portland 74-92
@ USC 48=81
@ San Diego 67-94
vs Eastern Washington 70-85
vs Montana 67-77
vs Puget Sound 111-115

Recently on the Top 25 board I stated that I think IWU fits in in the 150's of the Sagarin rating, near Illinois State...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0506.htm

UC Riverside is #328 in the Sagarin with only 6 teams in all of D1 listed below - Liberty, North Florida, N.C. A&T, Morehead St, Morgan St, Savannah St.

Regardless, the PS win over a D1 was big and it sets up a big neutral court game in Santa Barbara.  How stupid is it that according to the NCAA, the #1 IWU vs #5 Puget Sound game is basically a non-factor (not an in-region game)?!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: briefcase on December 23, 2005, 07:05:30 PM
Congrats to the UPS team on beating a D1! However, quite a challenge ahead, can't wait to see another big win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: veterancciwfan on December 25, 2005, 08:59:50 PM
We seldom get to see any NWC teams play in the Midwest. The last one the CCIW fans saw was Lewis & Clark in the 2001 D3 sectional held at U. of Chicago in which 2 CCIW teams, Elmhurst and IWU, participated. Lewis and Clark stayed with the U. of C. (their best team ever) and sort of self-destruced in the 2nd half with terrible shot selection decisions and several unforced tournovers. I know the D3 fans from Illinois were very suprised at the marked difference in the style of play. L&C had a tall blond guard who played with a headband who liked to pop 26-28' jump shots and his coach seemed to encourage it. It was sort a "first guy down the floor with an open shot pulls the trigger" offensive approach. As I recall, L&C had some athletic players on that 2000/2001 team. Could you fill me in on how the current UPS team compares with that 00/01 L&C team (I realize I'm talking 5 years ago).

There is tremendous interest among IL D3 hoops fans over the Dec. 29 matchup. This might be one of the best D3 games in terms of pre-game hype all of the 05/06 season. Unfortunately, due the distance, there will be few IWU fans at Westmont, unlike most road games IWU plays. In the CCIW, IWU routinely draws the biggest road crowd of the year for an opponent, with 50-75% of the fans wearing green. The same scenario plays out for nonconference road games the Titans play. IWU played Wash U. on 12/10/05 in St. Louis where 300 fans typically show up. The attendance was about 1400 with at least 800 IWU fans.

Congratulations on the big UPS win over Riverside. But I agree with Pat: IWU is a better team than Riverside.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on December 26, 2005, 07:45:32 AM
Veterncciwfan-

I can give a little here, but some other guys posting will have a lot better idea of how UPS is now....the guard you are referring to is Scott Davis.  He was probably one of the best to ever play in the NW.  I know since I was part of the group that he replaced.  The Coach did give him a green light for almost anything.  He was a 4 time 1st Team selection.  For the others to help me also (havent seen UPS play yet either but real curious), LC had Davis, Oriard, Meitus and Speier that year.  Who do these guys compare to on the UPS squad now? 

Is McVey similar to Oriard or Speier? 
Is Curtiss a player similar to Davis?

But from my experiences past and present, the teams in the west seem to be more uptempo oriented (on the whole).  My experience with the midwest teams are limited but this includes the NAIA teams from the past I have seen.   

Some of the guys who see the games on a regular basis can help us both on this.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 26, 2005, 04:31:29 PM
UPS will press all 40 minutes. They look to score quickly and probably won't be passing up too many shots.  They will play harder than any team you've ever seen.

Zack McVey will be the strongest and most athletic player on the court.  There are two concerns with him.  First if  he can stay out of foul trouble.  Second, if he can get touches.  When he touches the ball good things happen everytime (62% from the floor).

Chase Curtiss is not flashy, but he makes UPS go.  He does so many things other than score.  He may go 0-20 or 20-20.  Whether they're dropping or not he's their most valuable player in all aspects.  And if the game's on the line and he has the ball IWU is in trouble.

They also have a great supporting cast and talented freshmen.  They are young though, and an experienced composed team that can tolerate the pressure may give them trouble.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 26, 2005, 08:44:49 PM
The battle of the Zach's should be great.  IWU's 6-7/210 junior center Zach Freeman is one of the best big guys in the Midwest.  He has amazing hops, good touch around the hoop, and can knock down the 18 foot jumpshot.  Freeman is averaging 16.1 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and shooting .582 from the field. 

http://www.iwuhoops.com/zf.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/utdz.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/wabz.jpg


Zack McVey is listed at 6-6/215 with numbers that are very close - 14.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, .667 FG%.  This should be a matchup of two really good Division III post players.

IWU is led by two D3hoops.com preseason 1st Team All-Americans, 6-3 senior point-guard #22 Adam Dauksas (13.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 7.6 apg) and 6-6 wing #32 Keelan Amelianovich (18.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg.)  Keelan is one of the best 3-point shooters in the nation...26-49 (.531) so far this year after connecting on 67-147 (.456) as a junior...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/adka.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/illiniad.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/ka.jpg


The heart and soul of IWU's team defensively is the identical twin combo of Chris (#34) and Cory Jones (#42).  6-6, extremely athletic, and very strong.  Cory (a starter) and Chris (the 6th man) are role players who do all of the dirty work, but can also score around the hoop and up to about 15 feet...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinich.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/utdcojo.jpg

IWU's starting 2-guard is #20, Jason Fisher - another very strong and athletic player who at 6-2 won the state of Illinois slam dunk contest as a senior at Delavan H.S. over a lot D1/some now NBA guys from the big schools.  Jason is backed up by 6-3 Mike McGraw.  Both are very good 3-point shooters, although Jason is off to a slow start from beyond the arc this season.

http://www.iwuhoops.com/wabjf.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/utdmcg2.jpg

#40, 6-6 Steve Schweer, is another "dirty work" guy.  Comes in to play good defense and rebound...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/illiniss.jpg



That's your IWU scouting report.  This should be a fun game - looking forward to it, and some weather that is much better than this crap!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 26, 2005, 08:51:10 PM
And some matchup/stat info on the Tom Byron field...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/PREVIEWS.HTM
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on December 29, 2005, 11:46:52 AM
Tonight's IWU v UPS contest will be really interesting.

Over the past four years, opponents of IWU have typically try to slow down the game tempo and play a half-court offense.  UPS fast tempo will be more to the Titans liking than not.  With outstanding ball handlers led by All-American Adam Dauksas and strong big men, I really do not see the UPS press or doubling down under the bucket being a major problem. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on December 29, 2005, 09:17:54 PM
59-38 IWU at half.

Sounds like the UPS up tempo game is working against them. Wonder how they might change it up, or if they can and still come back. It's thier run and gun style that has allowed them to make many of the comebacks they are known for.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cciwrules on December 29, 2005, 09:25:55 PM
i have been listening to this game on a webcast,and the Illinois Wesleyan announcers said right before halftime that the top 4 teams in the cciw are better than pugent sound
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on December 29, 2005, 09:43:07 PM
Ya, I heard that comment too.

A pretty Bias and Cocky comment to make when you've only seen a team play for a half.

Sounds like they might take a few of those comments back this second half (or they should)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 30, 2005, 02:52:12 PM
UPS scared IWU to death in the second half.  It was a 6 point game with 4 to play.  UPS was up 14 points in the second half until the end when they got desperate.  The announcers talked about how bad UPS was in the first half, and did a 180 in the second half saying how deserving of the #5 ranking UPS was, and "We might see these guys again in March," and "Now we're seeing this team."

It sounded like UPS didn't bring the same intensity in the first half as the second.  They got great games out of their two hacks Curtiss and McVey (despite the usual foul trouble) but that's about it.  McVey had 26-12-3 and 3 blocks.  There is no way he's not an All American at the end of the year.   

It sounds to me like IWU is very good and very experienced.  My impression is that a young UPS team would have to play nearly perfect to knock these guys off.

But remember, come March you don't have to be the best team to win the national championship, you just have to be better than your opponenet 1 night of the year.

I wish UPS could play more games like this! Against ranked teams.  Now I have to fight off boredom for two months as UPS walks its way to another conference championship.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 30, 2005, 03:28:08 PM
As an unbiased observer (actually a little biased in UPS' favor), I don't think UPS is among the five best teams in the nation, and they didn't look good at all in the first half.  I don't think it was a question of intensity; it was a question of playing a team that was bigger, stronger, faster, and more poised than the Loggers.  I've see UPS play twice now (also against Behrend at Caltech) and from that admittedly small sample size I'd guess that it's not uncommon that they look better in the 2nd half.  The gameplan seems to be to harass the opponent and tire them out, and take advantage of their relative freshness in the last 10 minutes.  That worked against Behrend, who had none of the advantages that IWU had, and it almost worked against IWU.  I expect it works very well against inferior opponents, perhaps what they face in conference play (going only on reputation, no offense intended.) 

UW-Stout plays a very similar defensive style, and does it better than UPS.  (I saw them play Wooster and St. Thomas, so I have a frame of reference.)  Pluse, Stout's offense is considerably more threatening than UPS'.  So there's one team at least that I think belongs higher in the rankings than the Loggers.

I gained a lot of respect for the UPS coaches when I saw how intense and focused UPS was to start the second half.  They were beaten pretty badly in the first, and looked beaten.  But the coaches got them fired up again, and that was a big factor in getting them back into the game.  Kudos also to the small contingent of UPS fans (smaller than the group at the Caltech tourney--I wonder why?) who were very vocal and helped keep the team's intensity up.

UPS may very well be there in March.  As blackhawsks4 says, they'll probably win their conference with ease.  I'd not be surprised to see them get a first round bye and then draw the winner of a first-round game between Chapman and the SCIAC champ, and that should be an easy win for UPS.  Then they'd get into the mix with the WIAC, MIAC, and maybe CCIW teams.  It would be very interesting to see the Loggers match up with UW-Stout in the tourney.  That would be one frenetic game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 30, 2005, 05:59:50 PM
Hii... I believe this is my first post on this board... despite having recently seen the Loggers defeat PSB in an interesting matchup at Cal Tech.

Greetings from inside the gym affectionately known as the kitchen where I am having a little too much fun with my new Treo650.

In the consolation game today, Whitman defeated Mount Union in York, PA in overtime by a score of 98-90.

The score got to within 2 quickly in the 8-5:35 mark (though Whitman had been ahead by 8ish for most of the second half) ... then Mt Union went up with 2 and change... Whitman quickly took back the lead but the game was tied on a last second shot my Mount Union and the game went into OT. Whitman pulled this one out as they gradually gained a comfortable lead in OT thanks to fts... though they technically really should have won in regulation.

Well... a win is a win :)

I wasn't expecting to be impressed... because all the rest of the nation talks about is Puget Sound, but was pleasently surprised... congrats to the "missionaries" on their win today.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on December 31, 2005, 02:13:51 AM
Ok so I am a College basketball Junky!  Played D III ball in the midwest yada yada yada.  Anyways I know live in Portland and need to get my fix of hoops.  What team/gym do you recommend watching good quality basketball at?  I just want to enjoy watching good Basketball!  Please help me out, I am starting to get the shivers without my fix!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on December 31, 2005, 07:30:47 PM
Polek2-

You have a lot of options.  DI ball is at Portland State and U. of Portland.  D3 ball with Lewis and Clark in SW Portland and Pacific in Forest Grove (there are a few more within a 30-45 minute driving distance).  NAIA with Concordia, Warner Pac and Cascade.

The D3 teams are pretty decent to watch.  The NAIA guys are in one of the best conferences in D2 NAIA in the nation.  If you want to watch one of the best players, look for Corbon College.  They have a post player leading the nation in scoring.

This is just simple college scene. You also have access to good HS ball with Jesuit and Lake Oswego (again, just to name a few).  LO has one of the top high school recruits in the nation, his name is Love and he is a beast!!!

The D3's play on Friday and Saturday nights, look for when Puget Sound is back in town again. They are one of the best in the nation. Go to nwcsports.com to get more info on their exact schedules........

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on January 01, 2006, 04:42:56 AM
polek2,

If your looking for a great game soon, check out next friday night. UPS is back and they are gonna be getting their biggest home game challenge for the season play (that is if you push under the rug that upset by Warner Pac)

The Bruins who gave the Loggers thier only conference loss last year are coming to town, so if you don't mind the drive, you should wander on up there if you have the time, it's gonna be a good game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 01, 2006, 08:02:53 PM
Very interesting post by david collinge.  I think you're right, UPS should have no problem getting to the sweet 16 (with a first round bye and a win over a sciac).  How are their chances against teams from the midwest?  The last 2 years the loggers have run into the national champ, I'm curious to hear how you think they stack up.  In your opinion, where would UPS place in another conference?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 01, 2006, 08:34:48 PM
The first round bye is not a given; the tournament expansion (to 59 teams) means only 5 teams will get byes.  My guess is that UPS would get a bye for geography reasons, but there's a myriad of scenarios where that doesn't happen. 

As far as how UPS would stack up in other (presumably midwestern) conferences, that'd be just a guessing game.  However, they've played the best breadbasket teams in each of the past three years (UWSP, UWSP, IWU) and are 0-3 in those games.  UPS's style is unlike what most heartland teams encounter, and if nothing else that unfamiliarity could produce wins.  UW-Stout and, to a lesser extent, John Carroll play the same style of defense, so WIAC and OAC teams might be better prepared for the Loggers than teams from the CCIW, NCAC, or MIAA (for example.)  On balance, I think UPS would be at least a top-tier team in any Midwest or Great Lakes conference. 

Midwest: I don't think UPS would win this year's CCIW race, but they'd at least be competitive in the race for second (with the likes of Elmhurst, Augustana, and North Central).  I personally don't think they'd win the WIAC or MIAC, either, since I've seen UW-Stout and St. Thomas and think they're both marginally better than the Loggers.  They'd be in the race in the HCAC with Transylvania, Hanover, and Franklin.  I don't know enough about the MWC this year to comment.  They'd win the NIIC most years, and the LMC and SLIAC every year.

Great Lakes:  I think they'd finish behind Wooster and Wittenberg in the NCAC, and behind Hope, Albion, and perhaps Calvin in the MIAA.  It'd be very interesting to see them in the OAC, which is a rough-and-tumble, "any given Sunday" kind of league.  They could win it, and they could finish 6th.  UPS would win the AMCC (Behrend's conference), and dominate the Presidents AC.

Of the D3 teams I've seen play this season, I'd put UPS behind IWU and Wooster, and about equivalent to UW-Stout and St. Thomas.  I'm going to see Amherst tomorrow.

Happy New Year to all.  I wish I could be in the beautiful northwest with you!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 02, 2006, 09:13:26 PM
David,

I'll begin by acknowledging that I haven't seen any of the teams, but my impression from 'sifting' all the posts is that UPS would almost certainly be outclassed by Lawrence, but would be right in the mix for 2nd in the MWC.

And, of course, there is no guarantee that Lawrence will win the MWC - that's why they play the games!  But that's my take, for whatever it's worth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 02, 2006, 09:53:14 PM
Yspi, I just found out today that Lawrence was in Orange County (I guess I should say they were "in the O.C.," if I want to sound like a true Angelino!  ;)) last week.  I wish I'd known; Costa Mesa isn't the most convenient place to get to from the Valley (like, y'know), but I'd have made the trip to get a look at a top 10 team.  After all, Santa Barbara isn't convenient either, but I made that trip to see #1 play #5!
Title: Big Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 03, 2006, 12:44:53 PM
Heading into a huge weekend in conference play...

GFox @ UPS:  Two teams split last year, with the home team winning both games. Should be interesting to see where the NWC lines up with UPS...they've been impressive, but have shown that they are beatable (WARNER PAC, and Ill-Wes) although both losses came against good teams...

Willamette @ Whitworth:  Great rivalry of late, with Whit getting the sweep last year.  Big early home game for pirates, as they already have one conference loss, and probabably would be fighting an uphill battle if they get their second this early

Willamette @ Whitman:  Whitman is a dangerous team...nice size, and they have some guards who can play (Ricker and Elliot)...although I'm sure there won't be a crowd (unless something has changed since my days in the nwc), its a tough place to play...

Bearcats have looked good in spurts this year, and with John Olinger and Stuvland shooting the way they have, look capable of being a contender all year...looking at the region records, they're currently 5-0 in the West...

Contrary to the blackhawks claim, looks like the race should be fun to watch all year long...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 04, 2006, 04:38:07 AM
Good post Bearcats, it's nice to see someone posting about the goings-on in the league at this point. I think there has been a little too much talk about UPS and not enough about the rest of the league. The Fox-UPS game should be a great one though. It will be interesting to see if the Fox guards can get hot from outside. If they do, and Szalay and Parker can rebound the ball, then I think they can pull the upset. That's a big "if" though, especially in Tacoma.  Also, if the bearcats can sweep the Washington trip, that would be big and it would set up 2 HUGE games at home vs. UPS and Fox on the 20th and 21st. Should be fun to watch!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 04, 2006, 06:05:40 PM
I said it all last year and now all this year, there is no race for first in the NWC.  Willamette and Fox each have a shot on the road and thats it.  Fox scares me a little.  There is the conference tourney this year though so at least that will make things exciting for the other mediocre teams.  Its a race between Fox, Willamette and Whitworth for the other 2 spots.  I'd expect fox to go 12-4 and willamette 10-6 and whitworth and L/C 9-7.

The only thing more pathetic than the UPS first half last night against PLU was PLU.  Are they still rebuilding?  If they can't beat Pacific or Linfield I don't know if they'll get one in the NWC.

Zack McVey shot 10-12 last night for 30.  Something good happens everytime he touches the ball.  He caught a one handed alley oop off the inbounds play and dunked on 3 Lutes.  Jason Foster and Taylor Marsh looked good as well.

Hate to see Whitworth lose 2 to SCIAC teams.

Willamette looks like they've played some competition this year (just based off school reputations), and its always a tough place to play
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fosheezie on January 04, 2006, 11:18:37 PM
Hey just a shout out to Coach Jason Lowery at Pacific.  Having already gotten more wins than last year's total, here's to the team getting some wins in a tough conference!  Go Frankenberry!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2006, 11:55:17 PM
halftime with ups-fox 50-45 ups.  wow fox guards look good handling the pressure  especially #24, and not hesitating on 3s. and their bigs are on the o boards. they look very good.  antwon williams had a huge 1st half for ups, I'm guessing 17..   schmick looks really cute putting 3 fingers up after every 3 and flopping all over the court. talk about a player thinking he's better than he is. game could easily go either way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 07, 2006, 01:14:20 AM
loggers beat a GOOD fox team tonight.  mcvey is sooo dominating, and curtiss always seems to come up with the big play.  nobody could stay with antwan williams, he got into the paint whenever he wanted.  good to see the freshmen step up in the big game, and act like he's made big plays before.  It's easy to perform well in first half, no pressure.  would have been better game had "superstar" shown up in second half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 01:16:13 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 02, 2006, 09:53:14 PM
Yspi, I just found out today that Lawrence was in Orange County (I guess I should say they were "in the O.C.," if I want to sound like a true Angelino!  ;)) last week.  I wish I'd known; Costa Mesa isn't the most convenient place to get to from the Valley (like, y'know), but I'd have made the trip to get a look at a top 10 team.  After all, Santa Barbara isn't convenient either, but I made that trip to see #1 play #5!

Sorry to note this post so belatedly.

At the risk of messing you up with your NEW homeboys, you'll always be an Ohio-based Wolverine to me! ;D

I hope you'll vote on the Posters' Poll - you may note that you were ONE of the reasons I didn't go with the regional-based voting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 07, 2006, 01:42:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 01:16:13 AM
I hope you'll vote on the Posters' Poll - you may note that you were ONE of the reasons I didn't go with the regional-based voting.

Maybe you should reconsider the regional voting, then, because I'm going to take a pass on the poster's poll.  Thanks anyway.

Congrats to UPS on getting off on the right NWC foot tonight.
Title: Conf. Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 09, 2006, 02:33:20 PM
UPS handles Fox, and Whitworth it looks like took the woodshed to Willamette in the second half...although Bearcats (from what radio said) were very good in the 2nd half saturday, pulling out a win they had to have...

Whitman sounds much improved, and could be a contender for that 3rd spot...

Another big weekend this week:

Whitworth @ UPS:  Don't know if Whitworth has enough ball handlers to beat Loggers in Tacoma, although Pecht, Tucker, and Hasenfus are a formidable frontline that can bang with McVey...Williams probably needs to bring an oxygen tank with him for that game

Whitman @ UPS: A lot will be said for Whitman if they can hold their own in that game

Fox and Willamette both appear to have winnable games (Pacific and Linfield for WU, with LC and Linfield for Fox), so they should (notice the word SHOULD) be 5-1 in league after this weekend...I will say that Lowery has the boxers playing great d, and they are always tough at home, no matter the record

Early POY candidate: Olinger, WU-league's leading scorer, and is ranked, according to the WU site, in a lot of categories statistically. (Calm down BHawk, everyone is keenly aware that McVey and Curtiss are also POY candidates)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 14, 2006, 04:37:04 AM
Quick observations:

Whitworth has shown, especially after friday's game, that they are a strong #2 in the league and most games between them and UPS would be a toss-up.

GFU is really struggling and will have to get hot if they want a chance at the third seed.

Most teams (PLU the exception) are all matched somewhat evenly as far as talent goes, giving anyone a chance for an upset on any given night.

Player of the year looks like a battle between Curtiss, McVey, Pecht, and Olinger at this point, with the slight edge going to McVey.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 14, 2006, 11:32:12 PM
"Whitworth has shown, especially after friday's game, that they are a strong #2 in the league and most games between them and UPS would be a toss-up."   

"Most teams (PLU the exception) are all matched somewhat evenly as far as talent goes, giving anyone a chance for an upset on any given night."

Hmmmmmm...  Spoke too soon. 

Whitworth is a decent team and I expect them to join Fox in the playoffs, but a game between them and UPS a tossup? Granted UPS hasn't been playing its best lately, but they're still winning!  The Loggers would beat Whitworth 9 times out of 10, and have won the last five matchups.  Whitworth does put a solid five or six out there but after that they drop off.  Pecht is a good player, but not a conference MVP, I'd take 2 players on his team over him. 

Whitman is improved, and Matt Kelly is definitely a 1st teamer.

Chase Curtiss for MVP


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 15, 2006, 10:19:42 AM
Wow, I'm just stunned at this point.  The only thing I can say would be that Whitworth is a team that plays to the level of the competition. Also, I guess I discounted PLU a little bit.  This does, however, back up my theory that anyone can beat anyone in this league on any given night.  I still have to dissagree with you about how UPS would win 9 or 10 times.  They are deeper, as you stated, but Whitworths top five is more talented then UPS' . Talent, however, does not necessarily win you games and UPS just plays better team ball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 15, 2006, 05:03:06 PM
Himjay you're just diggin yourself a bigger ditch!  Nobody on this board will agree with you that Whitworths top five is more talented than UPS!!! As I've said time and time again McVey and Curtiss are far and away the two best players in the league. 

McVey or Pecht...McVey

Curtiss or take your pick...Curtiss

Taylor Marsh or Young...both strictly shooters but Marsh has more 3's at about the same percentage.  He also plays 15 less minutes per game!! Marsh doesn't even startand he's more effective than Young!

Antwon Williams is a leader in nearly every statistical conference category (11.8 ppg, 55% from the floor, 3.3 assists, 89% ft, 1.8 stls, 54% from 3, 3.3 assists and 1.1 to/ ast ratio)  Brian Williams avg's 2 more assists and his ratio is .7 better but where is he in every other statistical category??  Statistically this is a no brainer!  And I'm a Brian Williams fan, I think he's a good player.   But I'd take Antwon any day, not to mention the fact that he sliced Brian Williams up in Tacoma, getting into the paint at will while Brian played very poorly in the first half.

Pecht (at the 4) would be the only player who has a chance to start at UPS!!

The game in Spokane will be interesting. Always a long tough road trip.

My all conference team right now is
curtiss mvp
mcvey
kelley wmn
olinger will
pecht  ww
schmick fox

Watch for Williams and Foster for UPS, both talented freshmen starters. 

Any other freshmen contributors to watch for? 

Watch out for willamette, 5-1, nobodys really talkin about them.  UPS plays there this weekend, could be UPS's toughest game of year in toughest place to play in league. 

Who's seen them play (wu) and how are they???

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 15, 2006, 06:27:55 PM
I'm going to agree to disagree. Other freshman standouts include David Berggren at LC (14 ppg), Josh Dressler at PLU (14 ppg, 18 ppg in league) and Chris Faidley at Whitman (10 ppg).  Willamette is a typical bearcat team this year. They have aggressive, fundamentel players that all run james' offense well. They have a few big bodies with Mansfield, Luchterhand, and Garrelts who can crash the boards and finish around the rim. They are not very athletic though, and they don't have a lot of quickness.
Title: Salem Showdown
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 17, 2006, 12:48:59 PM
Big game in Salem Friday night, with the #1 Loggers and #2 Bearcats squaring off...

Couple of questions entering game:

1. Willamette's system vs. UPS' system...half court execution vs. up tempo...James vs. Bridgeland...exciting to see which team can force the other to play at their speed...no one has been able to slow UPS down all year (with the exception of maybe IWU)
2. Olinger vs. Curtiss...two POY candidates, who are the keys to both their teams
3. With UPS style of play, which team will be able to capitalize at the FT line?

4. How can Willamette compete, what with a UPS team that apparently should just scrimmage itself...maybe the only hope for the 'Cats lies in their "drawbridge style hoops"...perhaps Blackhawks can enlighten us on these particular points...

(Williams vs. Williams debate was interesting...must remember BW is the SOLE ball handler for his team, and is asked to play a distributor's role...AW shares duties in the Loggers system, and has much more freedom to score...AW has only 3 fewer turnovers than BW, despite the fact BW leads the league in minutes and is charge of their offense) Marsh vs. Young is interesting in that in UPS system, Marsh gets quite a few more OPEN looks than Young (hence the higher percentage) but Young, despite being the obvious shooter on that squad, still has made 47 to 42 threes, and hitting 42%...much harder to get off and make three's in a half court set than in transition when you're open...All these players are very good, and the argument itself seems a bit silly, as each fanbase SHOULD take their own player...)

Willamette seems to be playing well right now, and if they have any title hopes, have to beat the Loggers in Salem...looking forward to a week of talk on the board...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on January 17, 2006, 01:52:32 PM
Big game on Saturday in Salem...and I miss the game by one crappy day coming home from overseas....anyone that sees the game, would love to know your thoughts.  My first game will be LC vs Willamette on Tuesday....which should be no contest for the bearcats (really kills me considering they didnt have a chance 7 years ago....hahahaha).  Jon O is a hella of player...cant wait to see him in action personally..........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2006, 12:22:34 AM
Gladly Bearcats,

First of all, good post on ww vs. ups players, and I didn't even mention Delong at pg for UPS averaging 4 assists per game.

On to Salem, Willamette is not going to try to slow UPS down.  They'll play at UPS's speed and try to capitalize on easy layups after breaking the press. In the half court they'll spread the court and try take advantage of UPS overcommiting.  You're not going to see a slow paced game. 

And Bearcats you are EXACTLY right.  You're only hope lies in your drawbridge style hoops!!!  And Coach James seeming to have the officials wrapped around his finger over there (not that he shouldn't, i agree, he's a good coach who gets the most out of his teams).  But I mean honestly, you've only lost by a combined 54 points in 2 years in Tacoma!

Would have been nice to see Curtiss, with a combined 61 points get the Player of the Week last week.  But I guess it just sets the stage for Olinger vs. Curtiss right???  I've never seen Olinger play so I'm interested to see if he'll live up to this POTY hype.

UPS scrimmaging itself...not a bad idea.  Really? 30-2 past two years.  What 46-2, 45-3, at the worst 44-4 in 3 years  Including this one, 3 straight conference titles. 

I hope this board fires some of your guys up, I'm thinking of making the trip and wanna see WU bring their best shot. Let's see what UPS has got huh?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 18, 2006, 11:08:15 AM
If you're referring to this season, combined with the last two, then UPS IS an amazing 36-2...however, if you're "past three years" comment includes the two titles and the year prior, then you're back down to 37-11, because I'd imagine that 7-9 campaign was nothing to write home about...

The Bearcats have been blown out in Tacoma (looking at the archives, they were ugly losses)...but the Loggers lost in Salem to the Bearcats in '04 didn't they? One of those "2" losses was to the Drawbridgers...

Olinger has been snubbed himself in the POTW this season, his time was past due when he got the award this week...

I do agree, however, when you say the tempo will not be slow...from their scores, it seems the Loggers are too good a team to give up their pace to opponents...

It'd be nice if there were some other posters from the two schools on here, aside from Bhawks and myself, who are just a couple of old (well, in my case, old) players stuck in the stands...Hope you can get down BHawks, it will hopefully be a good crowd and atmosphere (my experience at the WU-PLU game in Salem was okay, not great)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 18, 2006, 11:49:58 AM
As Bhawks points out, its basically impossible for another team to slow down the pace of a UPS game.  Even if the UPS press is broken, teams are almost obligated to take advantage of numbers and put up a quick shot (although I think the Loggers love to have teams pull up for floaters or out-of-control lay-ups that aren't nearly as high percentage shots as they might seem).  Also, UPS' high pressure half court defense and habit of racing the ball up court regardless of a miss or make on the defensive end doesn't allow for any lull in the action. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on January 18, 2006, 04:20:09 PM
On the contrary, I believe it is very possible to slow down UPS's gameplan, all it takes is a team that is dedicated to keeping it slow from start to finish.  An example of this was last season when George Fox beat UPS in Newberg: 66-64 I believe it was.

They did it by keeping it slow and not allowing UPS to ever truly get in a rhythym.  Obviously not the norm, but a possibility for a dedicated team to do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 18, 2006, 05:33:57 PM
Andrew, thats actually a good case-study.  Executing a slow down game against UPS requires an extremely well-coached team of veteran players (see last year's Fox squad).   However, I wonder whether a team like that exists in the NWC this year.  If the Loggers lose in conference this season, I think its more likely that it will be because someone beats them at their own game.  Whitworth's second half run in Tacoma was spurred by pressing the Loggers and forcing the action.  The question remains:  Is there a team in the NWC that is deep enough to do this against UPS for nearly 40 mins and still have the legs to knock down big shots at the end of the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 18, 2006, 06:59:11 PM
My first time here and I will add nothing...well, maybe ancient history. But if the football board is dominated by LINFIELD people because they are on top the it is only right and fitting I, being a LINFIELD person, should come on here when the team I wish to back is luke/luster; a combo of lukewarm and lackluster. In fact, maybe my fictitious character will be Luke Luster.

It is sickening for me to look at the national rankings and there is no mention of LINFIELD.
I look at the names bantered around in the NW and I still laugh at George Fox and Whitman. Why? Because it was once a LINFIELD tradition to beat these teams 111-60.  Pacific? By 20. Willamette and Lewis and Clark? Depending on the gym, 5-10. Concordia, Warner Pacific, and Cascade? Intramurals would have run them out.
UPS? Well, that was considered a big school and not many LINFIELD teams would have beaten them but would have died trying.
NWC conference championships back to back to back for a decade.
NAIA tournaments all the time (without 1 win however).
Now I have to sit back and admire you successful programs.

How many of the winning programs average 80 to 90 points?
Are there die-hard defense teams that steal and run?

Just wondering. I've got nothing to cheer about.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2006, 07:44:55 PM
Allright, bearcats, give me your prediction...With UPS not playing its best ball as of late, and Willamette apparently playing well, this is their chance!  Otherwise if UPS goes to  8-0 this weekend this "race" is over before UPS even makes the spokane trip or goes to fox.

DenSLA I sympathize with you, and for a school with your facilities, history, reputation, etc., your program should always be atop the standings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 19, 2006, 11:29:32 AM
DensLa, you must be referring to the glory days of the late 70s for Wildcat hoops, because since then, there's been all of 2 outright Linfield titles the last 25+ years...Monsters in football, this version of hoops is more "mildcat" than anything else (although, from last Tuesday's score, they still own George Fox)...

BHawks: I've got to go with the Bearcats (what kind of fan would I be if I didn't) and say for them to win, its got to be in the low 80s, so I'll say 84-80 Willamette...In the two games I've seen (LC and PLU), I was impressed with Willamette's total number of capable guards...you need depth to play in a game like the one UPS will force friday, and I think they have it.  I will say that it is probably important for them to contain either Curtiss or McVey, as both having monster nights would be tough to overcome. Now, before you go with your "YOU CAN'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE BLAH BLAH" I mean one has to be under 15 points or so. If they're both over 20, and if the game is in the 100s, that definately favors UPS...

I agree, though (as I've said before) if Willamette can't win in Salem, then the race is probably over...and we'll have to wait for the NWC tourney for another lively board discussion...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 19, 2006, 06:04:16 PM
I'm with you, the game will be low scoring.  I say UPS 83-72.

Two keys to the game:
1.  Willamette's ability to get layups and easy buckets after beating the presss. 
2.  UPS has to shoot a decent percentage from the floor.  If they shoot the ball well from 3, they're tough.

I have no worries about WU stopping McVey and Curtiss I just worry about them stopping themselves.  Curtiss will have a good game whether he's on fire or 1-20, he does so many things.  McVey needs to get enough touches.  And both of them need to stay out of foul trouble, which rarely happens.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 20, 2006, 12:44:46 AM
It does look like Willamette is going to be UPS' toughest test in the NWC this season, but I don't see them losing this game. Curtiss is always going to get his points and his boards, even if he goes 1-20, just as blackhawks4 said. And the only time McVey gets stopped is when he gets himself into foul trouble. But what really makes me think that this team can be something special is how the freshman continue to get better every game, namely Williams, Foster, Pinkney and Krauel. With the schedule that Bridgeland set up to start the season (2 DIs, 2 or 3 DIIs, an NAIA, and the preseason DIII #1) these guys have already been through more than most freshman can hope to face in a year. And the fact that Williams is even being legitimately argued as the best point in the NWC as a Freshman should tell us something about the job Bridgeland has done recruiting and coaching. And Pinkney and Foster give UPS options when McVey is on the bench.

As long as UPS plays its game, nobody in the NWC can beat them, and it seems that Willamette is the only team that might be able to play with them. We'll see this weekend...
Title: Showdown in Salem
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 20, 2006, 12:22:22 PM
Good to hear from some new people....

Now, ds0097, while I'll grant you that the simple fact UPS has dominated the way it has the past two years cements Bridgelands ability to recruit, let's not get carried away with ourselves...if Bhawks and myself are suddenly "legitimate" sources for who's deciding the best point in the NWC, we've got problems...if I suddenly throughout a case for willamette freshman david fife as the "best wing in the league", and Bhawks came back with the expected, "you're crazy", would that be a "legitimate argument" for fife as well? Doubtful...and most freshman who play early tend to have a steep learning curve...this is not a phenonmenon limited to UPS, as Fife, Pacific's Bartlett, Linfield's Baber, and PLU's guards have all had big games this season according to their websites...

Finally, I'm sure Willamette would welcome a 1-20 game from Curtiss (and how exactly is he "getting his points" when he misses 19 of 20 shots?)  I believe Bhawks was arguing that even if Curtiss does shoot that poorly on the drawbridges (which I doubt he will), the OTHER THINGS he does (rebounds, steals, etc.) would allow UPS to remain competitive in the game...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 20, 2006, 01:58:04 PM
Best PG in the league or not, Williams has done an admirable job filling the void left by Cross.  Without him, the Loggers would arguably be without a pure point guard (although I'm sure you could make an argument for Delong).  While McVey and Curtis make UPS go, they are at their best when Williams is on the floor.

Question for BHawks:

Although Cross is the biggest name missing from last year's squad, I thought early in the year that the Loggers might actually miss O'Donnel and Shelton more.  Whats your take on how Foster and Pinkney are filling their shoes? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2006, 09:44:49 PM
if anybody can give midgame updates lets hear 'em.  im not quite as confident as the others...although im predicting a logger win, they're gonna have their hands full
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2006, 07:25:02 PM
Congrats bearcatsfan3, big win for your guys.  This is the third straight season UPS has lost to the second place team at their place.  Very, very tough to run the league.  Remember too, Loggers still go to Fox and have the Spokane trip.

Granted I picked a Logger win, but other than that I was on the money.  UPS shoots 33% from the field in the first half.  They shoot 8% from three for the game.  Curtiss has 17, 7, and 3, but shoots 4-18 on the "drawbridges."  Now I'm sure WU's "d" was good, but it wasn't THAT good!  Tough place to play. 

Meanwhile, WU shoots 61% from the floor, gotta think they got layins and easy buckets all night. 

McVey also fouls out and Curtiss has 4, I'd imagine they sat out some due to foul trouble.

I've heard from some that the officiating was somewhat one-sided, which is to be expected (the same way it may very well be in tac except for the loggers), but would be interested to hear bearcats fan3's perspective.  I'm sure my sources are somewhat biased. 

How was the pace of the game??  Who looked good? Was UPS missing easy ones or was it Bearcat "d?"  Fill me in!

Watch out for Fox tonight WU, very possible they could lose what they gained tonight.  UPS is still up a game despite records being the same.  Willamette slipped once (loss to ww) while loggers havent (loss to wu, tied for 1st).  And if Loggers can't beat WU at home, hard to make argument for them as best in league if lose twice to same team. Both teams still control their own fate however.
Title: Big WU Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 23, 2006, 11:07:15 AM
I'd say the game, as far as intensity level, atmosphere, etc. certainly lived up to what I was expecting as a fan...big, enthusiastic crowd, two very good teams going toe-to-toe...

The difference in the game was Willamette's ability to control the tempo, keeping UPS from getting out in the open floor for easy baskets and open 3's...the Bearcats were very good at taking the layups that were there, but also, especially in the middle part of the game were able to stay spread in the half court and make UPS guard for an extended period of time...Willamette lead the entire game, by as much as 18, and then withstood a couple of Logger rallies (UPS is too good not to come back)...

I thought, as we stated during the week, that WU has enough quality guards to handle that type of pressure (Olinger, Erickson, Miller, Stuvland and Fife) all played very well, and did have a hand in holding UPS down offensively (I will say the Drawbridges played a role, but that's what Homecourt is all about)...

As for officiating, I don't think it was lopsided in either way...as much as the technical on Bridgeland hurt UPS in the 2nd half, I'd say there were at least 3 calls against Willamette that caused huge uproars in the stands...the style of play was physical and fast, and referees are going to miss some things...part of the game...

As far as ramification, WU followed with a tough, grind out win over GFox, and UPS battled Linfield for a closer than expected win...WU is, based on head to head, in first, with UPS a #1B at this point...I think Bhawks is right in saying UPS is maybe sitting a little easier, knowing their one loss is on the road to the other contender, but I don't necessarily think WU's loss at whitworth was a surprise...it is always tough in spokane, and Whitworth is much better in the "dome"...that being said, I think both teams have tough tests before their rematch with one another...UPS at Fox and at Whitworth/Whitman (the bourne kid appears to be playing very well in the stats column) and WU still has LC on a short break Tuesday in Salem and then hosts Whitworth/Whitman...

Long way to go, but with WU's win, at least we know Bhawks won't be able to hibernate through January and February...
Title: Willamette Rolls On
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 25, 2006, 10:46:17 AM
Watched last night's WU/LC game...Stuvland for Willamette was 7-13 from 3, finished with 36 points, and carried the team to a 10 point win...The Bearcats are now 1/2 game ahead of UPS in the standings, and have won 6 in a row.

@PLU this Saturday, with a HUGE homestand against Whitworth/Whitman coming next Friday/Saturday...

In the meantime, now that we're half way through the conference season, I thought now would be a good time for some midseason awards:

1/2 way All-NWC:

Olinger-WU
Curtiss-UPS
McVey-UPS
Born-Whitman
Pecht-Whitworth
(if WU wins league, then I would bump Stuvland up, and drop one of the others to second team)

(2nd)
Stuvland-WU
Kelly-Whitman
Tillery-LC
Young-Whitworth
Schmick-GF
(notice the lack of big men on this 2nd team...guards have just played better, based on the stats)

COY
1. James-WU
2. Bridgeland-UPS (James gets the nod based on the win last Friday)
3. Molitor-Whitman (they're in the race for 3rd, and when was the last time you could say that?)

Let the debates begin!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 25, 2006, 02:48:31 PM
I already posted my midseason awards, but since this board is pretty much just me talkin to you, lets see...

COTY:  As of now I agree with you, Coach James always seems to overachieve.  If WU wins league, gotta go with James.  However, if UPS wins league it has to go to Bridgeland.  You gotta figure the winning team at worst finishes 13-3.  If that's UPS, they're 43-5 in NWC action in 3 years (3 titles).  If that doen't merit COTY, what does???? 
This is a two person race.  I agree Molitor is third but he shouldn't even be considered.  First, they're only .500 in league, despite the fact that they are VERY dangerous and much improved.  However, I have a serious problem with rewarding teams and individuals that underachieve in the past, have one good year, and then are given awards, especially when they don't win league.

POTY I annoyingly post McVey and Curtiss for MVP often, but here's why.  If UPS gets 1st, I think its goes to Curtiss.  Curtiss brings all the intangibles.  Not only does he produce on a nightly basis, but his leadership and ability to come through in the clutch separates him.  And nobody plays harder than him (true...he's no saint).  He's the guy for UPS.

I know I'm biased here but if WU wins title, I say McVey!!  I don't think anyone has it tougher than him.  UPS plays 4 out 1 in so he constantly has the baseline official waiting and hoping to make a call.  He gets flopped on all the time and deals with horrible calls.  His numbers aren't huge, but they're good enough, especially considering he's out half the game.   He's double teamed nearly every night, and is still the biggest low post presence in the league.  I understand Olinger as strong candidate (especially if WU wins), but no team prepares for Olinger like they do McVey.  But if WU wins I won't be going crazy because I do think the MVP should go to a player on the 1st place team, unless someone else is far and away more dominating.

1st team From what I saw, Kelly (wmn) is much better than Born.  Although it is hard to argue with 20 and 13 (wow)!!!!!

mcvey , curtiss, olinger - locks

stuvland (with wu success), born, kelly, schmick, pecht - go for last spots...i say born (#'s and being post helps), stuvland and pecht (ww 3rd or 4th)

A lot depends on final records too. It seems teams with better records get their guys on despite talent and numbers.

2nd team  whoever above that doesnt make 1st, szalay, young, somebody from lc i say wells-dangerous, and what about williams from UPS.  Comeon give the frosh some love.  I hear credible sources on this board have brought his name up as best pg in league.

Hey Willamette give us one!  You know who's gonna get ya... is Whitman at your place!  They're gonna be overlooked and they're big and have kelly at the wing.  I don't know if you want a half court gamne with them. You'll get ww at your place after what happened to you there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2006, 04:40:01 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 25, 2006, 02:48:31 PM
I already posted my midseason awards, but since this board is pretty much just me talkin to you, lets see...

That may be true, but there are others of us out here lurking, interested in what you have to say but with nothing to contribute.  :)

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 25, 2006, 02:48:31 PMCOTY:  As of now I agree with you, Coach James always seems to overachieve.  If WU wins league, gotta go with James.  However, if UPS wins league it has to go to Bridgeland.  You gotta figure the winning team at worst finishes 13-3.  If that's UPS, they're 43-5 in NWC action in 3 years (3 titles).  If that doen't merit COTY, what does???? 

Does the 'T' in 'COTY' stand for 'Three?'  If not, then I don't see what UPS' record the prior two seasons has to do with who is THIS season's best coach.
Title: Back and Forth
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 26, 2006, 11:49:22 AM
BHawks:

Agree with you to some extent on the people having great year's and tanking the rest of the time, but that's why the awards are handed out on a YEARLY basis...it's a "What have you done for me lately" type deal, so this season is all that matters...that being said, if Whitman doesn't get into the NWC tourney, then you have to go with one of the top 3 teams coaches...

As for the "McVey even if WU wins the league", I think you're points for him in actuality HURT his case...if he is so far and away above the other posts in the league (and I do agree he is the best big in the league) there is no reason for him to be in foul trouble, as the inferior players should not have the ability to put him in jeopardy of having to committ fouls.  I doubt officials are getting 4 calls against him wrong every single time he's in foul trouble (a flop here and there I can see, but 4 per game is just conspiracy theory)...add the fact that he (according to articles from the games) was in foul trouble against IWU and Warner Pac lends me to believe he is foul prone (or you could argue the system UPS plays lends itself to putting its own players in foul jeopardy, sort of a double edge sword argument)...also, if the 4 out 1 in puts him in the officials wrath, it also helps him in that I would think teams can RARELY double him, considering how highly people talk of UPS ability to shoot the 3 with the other 4 guys, or the fact that they are always in an up tempo game, where McVey is probably hard to find...plus, the officiating situation hasn't effected Curtiss and his numbers, so why should it effect McVey?? From the game I saw, both are very good players, but neither is so dominant that they can win POY without a conference title (and neither can Olinger)...

Moving on, I also am very worried about Willamette's homestand next week (I expect a win at PLU, despite their upset of Whitworth earlier in the year)...Beating Whitworth will be a task in and of itself, and to have a quality Whitman team come in right afterward is daunting...I also am curious as to what you or anyone else thinks the postseason chances for UPS/WU/Whitworth are? I've read on this site that the tournament has expanded and there something like 18 at large berth's available? Would the NWC get one of these??

As always, good to talk to you BHawks, and we welcome anyone else...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 26, 2006, 01:55:11 PM
Bearcats, you seem to be adamant that the POY will come from the conference champion.  However, we have seen as recently as last year that a runner-up can sport the POY (Gayman).  Does this mean that you consider Gayman more dominant in his senior year than McVey is now?  Obviously, you could make a case with numbers, but I have to side with BHawk's argument that McVey's presence and a slight consideration of UPS' style of play overrides any statistical differential.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 26, 2006, 02:14:58 PM
My point is that I do not believe any of the three candidates this year are so dominant that they can win POY without a team title...I would have argued the same thing about Gayman last year if I was on this board...his numbers look good, but they didn't win the championship, so I would have said the numbers weren't enough to warrant the award...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 26, 2006, 03:11:09 PM
I have a hard time separating winning and COTY.  A coach keeps his job by winning  games; therefore whoever wins should be COTY!!!  I understand the team that loses their star early and goes on to finish 11-5, or the team with no talent and the new coach who goes 9-7.  I understand those case for COTY.  There's none of those this year or last year.  What I don't understand is how Bridgeland goes 15-1 last year and a top ten national ranking and doesn't get COTY!  It goes to the coach of the second place team who is consistently in the bottom half of the standings but has one decent year and finishes 2nd!!!  Come'on.  James has done an incredible job this year but he and the other coaches (other than Lowry) are at no more of a disadvantage than Bridgeland, and he wins consistently while others don't.  All the coaches (except Lowry) have been at their schools (bridgeland might actually be the most recent before Lowry?), they can all recruit, and they can all play however they want.  This year COTY needs to go to the coach that wins the most games.  Enough of this...anyways.

McVey's in foul trouble all the time because he's a hack.  He's the king of cheap fouls (i.e. an over the back, or moving a hip instead of freezing with his hand up).  That said, the 4 out 1 in doesn't help, and he does get very tough calls on a nightly basis.  He DOES get doubled nearly every game.  Teams come from the weak side and try to rotate if he kicks it out.  I think McVey is dominating enough to get POTY if his team doesn't win it but I realize his numbers need to improve.

Careful Bearcatsfan3 when talking about PLU...You saw what happended to Himjay, and I haven't seen him backm since!

My personal opinion is the NWC has no chance of getting an at large bid if UPS wins conference tournament, regardless of who wins league.  If UPS wins conference and loses in conference tourney, UPS has a very, very small chance at an at large bid.  That's my opinion and I'm sure you'll hear differently from somebody, but I would be surprised.

Who you got in the conference tourney?  Are you implying wu/ww/ups?  I have little faith in whitman making the conference tourney but they are scary as hell and can beat anybody any night. I say gfu @ wu, winner goes to ups. 


 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 26, 2006, 10:41:08 PM
To add my two cents on McVey, he is definitely prone to picking up cheap fouls on the defensive end. On the offensive end defenders are able to get one or two charges called against him a game that would make vlade Divac and Dennis Rodman proud. For one of the top players in the NWC he gets about the same amount of respect from refs that most freshmen do...

As far as the NCAA tourney goes, it would take another NWC teamed to get ranked in the top 15 for there to be even a slim chance that two teams make it from the NWC. Even then this seams very unlikely because nobody outside of the northwest really knows the teams, and UPS hasn't done enough in the tourney to establish a rep for the league nationwide. Whether this is fair or not (drawing the back-to-back champs each year in the sectionals isn't the easiest way to advance very far), it is the reality so an NWC team is going to have to make it to the Final Four to change it. Regardless of all this, no other NWC team really even has a chance to get ranked this year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on January 27, 2006, 12:21:23 AM
Blackhawks--- I have to disagree about the COTY in a sense.  I agree that teams that are winning those coaches should be the one considered first and foremost.  But in regards to way this season is turning out...Gordie James has to be well ahead of Bridgeland.  UPS was suppose to be hands down favorite and are having a bit of difficulty.  I think if WU finishes within a game of UPS (or happens to win it) then James will be given COTY.  Bridgeland is doing a wonderful job and should be duly recognized, but Gordie has the guys playing at a level higher than they maybe should be. Molitor deserves recognition, but no coach who finishes .500 in a league should ever get it, unless he is using 7th graders.

POY-----this will come down to McVey and Curtiss, however, if WU is able to win the league, Olinger may steal it away. I personally think McVey should get it based on stats and consistant performance. Although I havent seen them play, McVey seems like the steady hand for UPS and that may come into play during voting. Even though Curtiss is deserving as well he may miss a crucial vote from a coach he played bad against......

I havent bee around to see alot of NWC action, but have followed as best as possible over the past years, and this seems to be one of the best races in a few years time.  Looking forward to a good finish........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2006, 01:46:14 AM
Piofan-

Is it Bridgeland's fault that he recruits better players??  Should he be penalized because year after year he reloads with talent??  Is it his fault that his system is dominating the league? 

Bridgeland has turned the UPS program from subpar to dominating the NWC.  He has earned the expectations that come along with the being the best in the conference. And Bridgeland should be penalized because someone who isn't doing what he is to prepare his team in the offseason can overachieve and finish second this year??

Its no coincidence that UPS is loaded with talent year after year. It's no coincidence that their system has gotten better the past few years. 

Why hasn't Willamette won the title the past two years? Or Linfield or Whitworth?  What does Bridgeland have at UPS that's so much better than those places.  Here's an idea...have James go out and get better players.  That way he won't have to hope he can make them "play at a level higher than they maybe should be (as you say)." But don't penalize Bridgeland because he has put his program in a better position to succeed in the offseason than the others!

Don't penalize Bridgeland because he outworks the rest of the coaches in the league...maybe combined.  UPS is a "hands down favorite" because of what he's done to get them there. 

Your argument is ridiculous.

Molitor recognition??? Right...let's see: 2-12, 4-12, 7-9, 8-10, 3-13, 4-12, 6-10, 4-12, 3-13, 3-13. NWC records since he took over.  But it's Coach of the "Year!"  I forgot.  Let's see if he can have a winning season first.  Heck let's go for 8-8, and hey why not??  I'm with it.  Coach of the Year.

Spare me.

UPS having difficulty??? Yeah the Loggers haven't been at the top of their game; but as far as I know, especially in the NWC league play,  a win is a win.  And last I checked UPS was 7-1, with their one loss to the other best team in the league, on the road, in the toughest gym in the conference.

Not taking away anything from James or the Willamette players who I think most would agree are overachieving.  They've had a hell of a year and having me second guessing myself!  WU has a serious shot at a title.  Hope this doesn't jinx you guys. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on January 27, 2006, 11:17:24 AM
Blackhawk-

First and foremost......I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT BRIDGELAND......my point is that a coach that does "better than he was suppose to" a lot of the times wins the award for THAT season.  Bridgeland is the best OVERALL coach in the league. But recruiting doesnt win you COTY.

The only reason I mentioned Skip Molitor, was because the last time he had a chance of making the conference tournament was in 94-95.  I also heard his team is so-so group of guys.  No way this guy can win any award....just saying he has done a good job this year. NEVER said he should be COTY....or considered....just said recognized for doing a good job this year.
Title: Finally
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 27, 2006, 02:21:46 PM
I'm just excited to have so many people on the board!


BHawks: Stop trying to jinx us with all of your praise...its unnatural for you to be positive about the opposition, and that kind of reverse karma is not wanted over here in Bearcat land...

Good points about Whitman/COY, but I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think a school in salem or tacoma doesn't have a distinct advantage over a school located in Walla Walla, Wa...yes, I'm sure Bridgeland works his tail off in recruiting, but to say that Molitor doesn't, or that James doesn't is being a bit naive...
In addition, who's to say the academic requirements at lc/wu/ups are the same as whitw/whitman/linfield? does anyone have any solid numbers for GPA, SAT, etc on who get's in where?  While all the NWC schools are "academic" in nature, I'm sure some have higher levels of tuition/academic requirements than others, which once again may or may not slant the playing field to one school or another...
Now, Bridgeland has gotten tons of players from CA (including yourself if we're all not mistaken), which is definately him working hard at getting out of state kids...but also, doesn't that bring program budgets into play? If UPS can afford to send him to CA x amount of times, but Whitman/whoever can't, isn't that a perk of his job, rather than "Bridge outworking every coach in the NWC." (Even if he is paying for this himself, wouldn't that be simply because he can afford to, and maybe the others can't?)...
I don't  have any factual numbers on any of this, but they have to be considered before we go slamming certain coaches for not "working hard." I'd bet all of the leagues coaches work hard...

Now, as for the NWC tourney, I see whitworth edging out gfox and whitman, and them going to tacoma, with the winner ending up in salem to play the bearcats for the tourney ticket...although I think that if UPS wins the league, but falls in the NWC title game, they go to the dance as well...there are more bids this year, so they (and probably they alone) would have a shot at the ticket...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2006, 02:55:23 PM
Every school has its advantages and disadvantages.  And of course walla walla is a tougher sell, but never being .500 is underachieving a little.  the same way not finishing in the top half is underachieving for lin and ww, with budget, reputation, and facilities.   Budgets, academics, etc. all play a roll in a programs success, but UPS is at no more an advantage than any other school, ill give whitman and maybe gfu.  but still, there are good players everywhere, its a matter of finding them and getting them...and winning, making the most out of a situation...which no one has done better than bridgeland. 
     on to tonight, I got  ups over lc, wmn over lin,   pac over plu, and ww over fox at their place...anybody else?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2006, 06:00:07 PM
Quiet room.

Anyone notice that the NWC was written about in Around the Nation this week?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 27, 2006, 06:57:17 PM
Very good writeup about Willamette . Good to see the NWC getting some attention. I agree with most of the first and second teams posted so far.  Also, I saw PLU play twice early in the season and based on that I thought they had NO shot at beating anyone in the top-half of the league. Obviously, they improved a bit since then and I ended up eating my words. As for coach of the year, if Willamette wins of even gets second, James deserves it, especially based on what happened last year. When a team is picked for fifth and gets first or second, that reflects on the coach getting everything that he has from his team.  Should be a great finish this year and I look forward to the playoffs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2006, 03:28:01 PM
Would be nice to see Curtiss get POTW this week as UPS climbs back into a tie for first...Oh, its between players from UPS and Whitworth, gee, wonder who will get it?

Is nice to see wu in around the nation, I'll take any love the NWC can get.  Been a while since NWC men had 2 teams ranked.

Can't overlook UPS @ PLU, rivalry game on the road for the loggers.

Big week next weekend, ups @ fox and willamette has ww and wmn. 

Bye Saturday gives logger coaching staff opportunity to scout NWC...just as im sure wu staff was scouting friday night
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 29, 2006, 08:40:25 PM
Blackhawk,
What are you implying about the POTW selections?  Be a man and say what you really mean.  Do you even know how those are chosen? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2006, 10:12:21 PM
What???!!!!  Who are you????!!  Where did you come from??!  Bearcats I think I ruffled somebody's feathers!  That can't be right.  Me??? Upsetting somebody on the board?  Is this your first post ever? 

Please tell me I didn't upset someone so much that they went and created a new account to threaten my manhood??  I'm kinda hurt.   Can I at least hear your allegiance?

I mean, because I never "say what I really mean" on this board.  I never go out on a limb or make a prediction. I try cheer each team on equally. I'm always happy for all the players and coaches that get awards.  They all deserve 'em.  I've never been known to talk badly about any team or anybody.  I think they're all great!

I was simply questioning, I wonder who will get POTW?? Can't wait 'til tomorrow when its announced because I think the Loggers got a good shot at it.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2006, 10:32:02 PM
You know what Bearcats, I KNOW who pinecove is!!!  I've narrowed it down.  It's either Coach Molitor, Aaaron Schmick, or JOHN OLINGER!!!!

They're mad at me because of what I've been saying on the board.  Because you know, our opinions, bearcat, like you said, are very respected.  I know its one of them!

Allright listen, Skip, if it's you, I'm sorry I put you on blast.  Now will you stop questioning my manhood?

Aaron if it's you, I gotta ask you a question.  Do you still put 3 fingers up after you make a 3 even when you're losing?  Or when you're only .500 in league and not gonna make the postseason?

And John, if it's you...I'm sorry, you're a good player. And I need an autograph.  I'll be the one storming the court (like willamette did to ups 2 years ago) when the loggers run you guys by 30 in tacoma...again.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 30, 2006, 12:13:53 AM
That's pretty typical BH, you get called on your cheap swipe (at who, the conference SID?) and back off pretty quickly.  Pretty churlish considering you were chosen as POTW a fair number in times during your career.

And I don't have anything to prove to you about my membership on this board.  When the two boards merged, I had to chose one username.  I went with the one that fit both (Pineconefan), rather than the one that was originally for basketball (Westhoop).  Of course I had registered long before you (UPS fans were never heard from until that first league title), and I remeber welcoming you to the board after your first post.  I continue to check in every once in a while, but haven't posted on basketball yet this winter.  Don't need your permission either.

As for allegiance, I've been watching Whitworth play since the early 80's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 30, 2006, 11:33:09 AM
BHawks:

#1-Pecht had an excellent week, and deservedly got POW for it...

#2-Curtiss was 3-12 for 9 points on Saturday...not exactly "Wow" numbers or POW like stats...

#3-There has been exactly 1 Whitworth player chosen as POW, while there have been 3 UPS players chosen...I don't see the bias you're alluding to on this one...perhaps you're barking up the wrong tree here...

#4-I doubt John Olinger, or any other current player, is on this board...and if UPS is as great as you've claimed they've been (and 30-2 is definately worth shouting about), why wouldn't WU storm the court after an upset win over a ranked opponent? (Oh, and UPS by 30 in Tacoma??? After losing by 9 in Salem? That would be quite the tank job by a quality Willamette team...)

I do agree, however, that this weekend is enormous for the Bearcats (perhaps bigger than the UPS/GFox weekend)...Whitworth and Whitman, in Salem, with both of those teams fighting for a playoff spot (although Whitman's loss to GFox had to be damaging, as it put them at 5 league losses, 2 back of Whitworth)...as it stands now, UPS and WU are 2 games up on the Pirates, but a win in Cone would give Whitworth a big lift...Coach James and his staff have their work cut out for them this week...

UPS also has a big rivalry game Tuesday(??) against PLU, and will be at a desperate GFox team on Friday...the race is heating up!

Pinecone:  Any thoughts on the WU/Whitw showdown??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 30, 2006, 03:56:48 PM
Wow, you're pretty upset.

I don't even know what churlish means.

You should at least be happy that we brought the conference tournament back so that you guys and the other mediocre teams have a chance at the postseason.
By the way, what are the chances of Curtiss getting a hand shake from your coach after the game (win or lose)--very classy.  Funny, now seems whitworth fans are pretty quiet these days.  I would be too.

Bearcats, POTW didn't come out yet this week, not 'til tonight.  I'm placing a big bet right now that a player from UPS will get it.

"Quite the tank job" huh...see (03-04 and 04-05 seasons).  I'm wrong I guess after beating ups by 8, you only lost by 28 in tacoma.  And lets not even get into 05.

OK, pinecove...why don't you tell me who does choose POTW???  And I'm sure it is chosen from a completely unbiased source, right?  Is the "committe" (or is it a committe) who chooses it linked with any schools??!! 

Loggers still have wu at home, and (youre right a desperate) fox, ww, wmn on road.  As confident as I may try to sound, that schedule is scary.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 30, 2006, 08:34:56 PM
Pinecone:  Any thoughts on the WU/Whitw showdown??

Bearcats - This matchup has seen many great games over the last three or four years.  I think Whitworth caught Willamette a little by surprise with a trapping zone in the first meeting this year.  I don't think Whitworth will be able to surprise Willamette again.  From what I've seen of Coach James' teams over these many years, there won't be much surprise in store for Whitworth.  They just execute, execute, execute.  Should be a great one.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 30, 2006, 08:43:13 PM
BH - in response to your ramblings:

"Wow, you're pretty upset."
Nope.  Just stating facts.  And questioning weak assertions.  No reason to get upset at what some folks on these boards write, because most of us know that the security of anonimity gives the writers a freedom to say things he wouldn't have the nuggets to say in real life.  Some people converse.  Some people trash.

"I don't even know what churlish means."
Why am I not surprised?

"You should at least be happy that we brought the conference tournament back so that you guys and the other mediocre teams have a chance at the postseason."
UPS was responsible for bringing the conference tournament back?  Interesting, didn't know that.  And a long way to go in the season still.

"By the way, what are the chances of Curtiss getting a hand shake from your coach after the game (win or lose)--very classy."
I don't know the answer to that.  I do know its hard for a coach to shake Curtiss' hand when that player has been tossed from the game for slugging the opposing point guard.

"OK, pinecove...why don't you tell me who does choose POTW???"
Do some homework.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 31, 2006, 01:53:44 AM
And the board heats up...

pineconfan: using big and/or obscure words to try and prove your superior intelligence is definitely uncool.

blackhawks4: before you question somebody about a word at least look it up in a dictionary. Churlish is a word and was entirely fitting in the context.

For the POTY week voting goes, as far as I know it is done by the NWC SIDs, and as long as they pay attention to the entire league that's fine.

bearcatsfan3: you asked about academic standards, and I got bored and didn't want to do reading so I did a little research on the NWC school websites. It turns out that UPS, Willamette, Whitworth, Whitman and Lewis & Clark all have average SATs in the 1200s, while the rest have averages in the 1100s. Whitman has the highest yearly total cost at about $37,000, with UPS and Linfield coming in at about $32,000. The rest are about $28,000. And as for undergraduate enrollment, UPS, Lewis & Clark, Pacific, PLU, Whitworth and Willamette all have enrollments between 2,000 and 3,000. The rest are around 1,500. So it seems if any team has the advantage from these stats it should be George Fox since it has one of the lowest average SAT scores, is one of the cheapest schools and is in Portland. Of course UPS was able to take AWill from Portland, I guess he didn't want to go to a Quaker school. Maybe that's a recruiting advantage, not being religiously affiliated, which UPS hasn't been since 1988 (I think that was the year, in the late eighties for sure). Of course it still took them 15 years to become competitive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 31, 2006, 02:01:52 AM
Oh, and all this recruiting talk reminds me of my favorite Bridgeland recruiting story:

Bridge is hosting a recruit from somewhere in Eastern Washington, and is showing the kid around school. He shows him the athletic facilities, the dorms, the academic buildings, and finally gets to the student union. So he brings the kid inside and goes over to the info desk because he sees one of the sportswriters for the school paper working. Turns out she's wearing a Whitworth basketball t-shirt that one of her friends from Whitworth had sent her. So Bridge comments on the shirt, giving her a hard time for supporting a rival and then turns to the kid and says, "you don't want to go there anyways, all they have is apple orchards and snow anyways." Without missing a beat the kid looks at him and says, "my parents own an apple orchard." To which Bridge replies, "that's great, I hope you had a great visit, if you have any questions call me, and have a great time at Whitworth." He never heard from the kid again and he enrolled at either Whitman or Whitworth. That was the last time he brought up apple orchards on a recruiting visit...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2006, 03:14:00 AM
And the POTW goes to.....

Come'on pinecone, like we both don't know who and where the POTW comes from, very unbiased, huh...I thought it would be better if you said it, but turns out someone else doesn't wanna "be a man" and say where it come from...

And as for "churlish," pinetree...you really don't want to get into a battle of academic standards, do you??  We both know that answer too.

"You should at least be happy that we brought the conference tournament back," I was referring to the NWC.  Come'on pinesol, why would UPS bring the tourney back??? We win league! It was teams like your own that are tired of having nothing to play for.  I don't blame them.  You guys have no shot at the title!

"I do know its hard for a coach to shake Curtiss' hand when that player has been tossed from the game for slugging the opposing point guard."

First of all, did you even see the play? It was a loose ball.

Secondly, pineapple, if it was (which it wasn't) slugging the opposing point guard," nobody respects the "I'm mad at you, I'm not gonna shake your hand."  Handle the situation with some pride and be a man about it.  I can tell you this much, if someone took a shot at UPS's top dog, or especially their point guard, something would have gone down.  It's a mentality.  Why do baseball pitchers throw at a batter! And save the " You guys are thugs, and fighting or retaliation would get whitworth suspended, etc."  If someone takes a shot at your guy, it's time to step up, and I'm sorry your coach doesn't instill that mentality in your guys.

Bearcats, I'm beginning to think you're right in regards to the "slip" out East.  Whitworth and Whitman back to back is the toughest road trip of the year.  A split isn't too bad.  Anybody know what happens if UPS and Willamette both go 14-2, split, and both lose to Whitworth?

And by the way, I do take offense to being called "(adj. 1. a rude illbred-person, 2. Rustic, and 3. a medieval peasant-Webster, 2006).  Especially the last one.  Thanks for the advice ds0097.  It's allright though, especially coming from a hyperinsullapotuitous individual!
 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 31, 2006, 05:13:04 AM
Being a conference SID is a thankless job, even more thankless than being a school's SID, as your axe-grinding has proven. Let the man do his job.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 31, 2006, 11:52:50 AM
Good point Pat, being an SID is a thankless job and from what I've seen the ones in the NWC do a good job overall. From what I've seen over  the last 4 1/2 years they do a good job of keeping the websites up to date and get the recaps posted quickly. I know that if it weren't for their work, we would have had a much tougher job at the UPS newspaper writing the stories for away games that we couldn't attend. Unlike the players and some sids from other conferences they remain pretty unbiased in their writeups.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 31, 2006, 02:51:42 PM
Thanks Pat for saying it best.

Although BH, it is interesting how you conveniently ignore the information provided by DS0097 and Bearcatsfan.  Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.  I see you like truthiness compared to truth, lots of folks do.

And I was truly impressed.  In the space of a few sentences, you went from UPS winning "a battle of academic standards" to "something would have gone down."  I think you created a new category!  Move over "Student-Athlete" and make room for "Gangster-Scholar".  Yep, players with Cred tough enough for the street, yet brainy enough for the Ivy-covered walls of academia!  After laughing about that for a half hour or so, I realized what a coup that is for you guys.  While its certainly a small recruiting pool, if UPS is the rightful home to Gangster-Scholars, than that is a true recruiting advantage.

You know, that description kind of fits with the rumor that went around the league during the holidays.  Word from another NWC coach who was scouting the game is that your guys wanted to throw down with Illinois Wesleyan after getting clubbed in Santa Barbara.  Is that true?  Who knows... but it does seem to fit with your new Category, and it makes a great story, so why not believe it.  You know what, I kind of like this "Truthiness" thing too!

Ready to talk actual basketball yet?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 31, 2006, 02:55:18 PM
Bearcatsfan,

What are your thoughts on Friday's game?  Any individual match-ups you see going one way or another?  Does playing Whitworth first, followed by Whitman work in Willamette's favor, or against it?  Just curious what you think and I am ready to move on to real basketball conversation.

Pine
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 31, 2006, 04:47:17 PM
Pinecone:

I don't feel comfortable "claiming"  or deadpanning about Whitworth too much, as I haven't seen them enough...however, from Willamette's end (and based on what I've read about the Pirates and seen in the stats...and what I saw in the game at WU last year) here's what I see for Friday:

1. I think the strength of Willamette lies in the fact that it is shooting the heck out of the basketball right now...between stuvland, olinger, and miller, they're percentages our way above average, and obviously, that will need to continue against the Pirates.
2. Rebounding could be a major advantage for Whitworth, as the Bearcats (who actually lead the league for awhile) have struggled rebounding of late (although some of that can be attributed to the fact there aren't a lot of missed shots on their end)...
3. Defensively, WU is very strong, as their bigs (contrary to what  a Pirate fan said on this board earlier) are active, and their guards seem to have the freedom to switch match-ups and guard a number of different types of players (fife and erickson off the bench are both very good players, coupled with the three starters)...however, Whitworth's Pecht, and Tucker and Hasenfus both statistically are aggressive scorers and rebounders, so that could sway the game (which inside group wins out)
4.  I think (and Bhawks would agree with this) that Cone Fieldhouse is a tough place to play, and the crowds I've seen that last few home games have been very good, loud, and (although late arriving) involved in the game...the home court should help the Bearcats (especially if Young has as much trouble shooting as Curtiss did for UPS)...

5.  I like WU, obviously, but see a 65-61 type game that probably won't be decided till late...

I absolutely am dreading the Whitman game...the Born kid has been putting up great numbers, and the Kelly kid is the league's scoring leader...that's a dangerous combo, especially after a huge Friday game, and the fact that Whitman probably needs to win out to make the postseason...I still like the Bearcats, but would not want to be Coach James and his staff trying to prepare for two good teams back to back...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 31, 2006, 05:40:57 PM
Thanks for the insights Bearcat, appreciate it.

Willamette has been unconscious from outside, but that is a credit to their ability to work the ball for open looks.  The shot very poorly, especially in the second half, in Spokane.  So it will be interesting to see if that shooting night was the result of Whitworth's defense or the travel.  Stuvland was off to a strong start in that game, but struggled in the second half.

I have been to a couple of games at Cone.  Once the place was really rocking.  The other time it was kind of dead and only half of the bleachers were pulled.  I'm sure this year's game will be rocking simply because the Bearcats are playing well and are tied for first place. 

Unfortunately I will have to rely on Bob Castle on the radio, rather than be there this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2006, 05:59:23 PM
Pinecove... what have I said that hasn't been the truth?  Academic standards?   The princeton review calls UPS the best in the west. Whitman and willamette were there, i tried to find ww but my scroller broke.  Thanks now I need a new mouse.

Yeah, I love it when Pat jumps in and everyone gets a nice spot to put their nose for a second.  No offense to him, this wouldn't be here without him. And I think Whitworth SID does a great job!  Nice guy too, posts here and is informative.  For the most part Whitworths SID does good picking POTW.  But I didn't know I was stopping him from doing his job by questioning his choices for POTW.  Come'on.  

I think Curtiss should have got a piece as the Loggers climb back into a tie for first place.  And this isn't the first time I felt a UPS player was overlooked.  But I realize, UPS is 24-2 in NWC the past 2 years.  That's a lot of 2 win weeks that Logger players could get POTW.  I realize they can't get them all, but at times it's worth questioning.  You don't think I know Pecht's stats were a little better (not much mind you)this week?  But I thought the significance of the wins (UPS being back on top) might carry some wieght.  

Yeah, and gangsters...That's whats at UPS.  I didn't know standing up for a teammate was "gangster."  Lets whine and complain, not shake hands, and demand a suspension!  A man's way to settle it.  Right, you like to question manhood don't ya? Settle it on the court!  All I said was if a UPS player "gets slugged" it's dealt with on the court at that moment (no not cheapshots); standing up for yourself and your teammates.  If it was as bad as you say, Hayford should have been upset with his guys for leaving their pg hanging, not crying to the league.

Yeah, UPS is physical and competitive.  I don't know what happened in santa barbara, wasn't there.  Wouldnt doubt something happened.  Sorry, I guess as of late not used to losing...you guys must be getting used to it though.

And yes... Now I am ready to talk ball.

Bearcats, you should dread the Whitman game...I'm dreading that trip.  If UPS doesn't put it together, they're in trouble at gf, wmn and ww.  Could get ugly fast!  UPS has always struggled at whitman.  Agree, at wu sucks, but ww has seemed to do ok in past.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2006, 06:17:41 PM
Bearcats...breathe easy...pinecove and i settled our differences in private and it's over.  We agreed...if we were in grade school, ups would be the kid fighting, and whitworth would be the one telling the teacher.

Loggers @ PLU tonight...in rivalries you can throw the records out.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 01, 2006, 07:42:13 PM
I am happy to share the selection process for NWC Athletes of the Week to anyone.  Just send me an e-mail.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 01, 2006, 07:44:39 PM
sflegel@whitworth.edu
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 02, 2006, 10:14:44 AM
Just stopped in to throw in my two cents for the POTY and COTY awards. Would have to give the COTY to Gordie James because he has put the bearcats in a position to win the conference title, doing so with less talent than Bridgeland.  I don't think COTY always goes to the coach of the number 1 team, but I do think POTY should in most all cases. Last year i thought Cross or Curtiss should have been the POTY and not Gayman. If UPS wins it should go to Curtiss. If WU grabs it then got to go with Olinger. Curtiss can really play, he has to be one of the smartest players, if not the smartest player, in the conference and he is one tough SOB. Having played against him it can be fustrating because he gets a lot of cheap calls that go his way, but that is because he is so intelligent enough to put himself in position to fool the refs. I love McVey and would want him on my team, but you can't be POTY and be in foul trouble every game. Believe me blackhawk, I know about picking up cheap fouls because you are the biggest player in the conference, but I managed to do it so I am sure he can too.
That being said, overall I think the talent is down in the NWC from previous years. The top team UPS is not as good as previous years and I think there is a real lack of dominant posts, the best being McVey. Scott Szalay is tough at the defense of end, but he doesn't have much offense other than finishing around the hoop. Honestly, I am sure he is a hard worker, but I do not understand how Kyle Born gets those numbers. He is not big and strong like Szalay or the athlete that McVey is. Having played against him it makes me wonder who is letting this guy score?!
Blackhawk I would like you to tell me how the 4 out 1 in offense isn't a great offense for a post? If you have shooters that can spread the floor it has to be the best offense for a post.

PS. I think that Tacoma, as far as cities to recruit guys too, other than portland is way better than the towns of any of the other schools. Maybe I am just being biased being from the area.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BVHawk on February 02, 2006, 10:49:28 AM
I have a feeling the Loggers will still take the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 02, 2006, 01:59:56 PM
BVHawk:  good post...very nice to hear somebody other than me say something good about curtiss.  with him its not even about stats as much as confidence, intelligence, leadership, and you hit the nail on the head with toughness.  agree with you on mcvey. 

I also like 4 out 1 in, especially if you're playing small ball.  How it hurts Mcvey is that he constantly has the baseline official staring at him.  And you know being a post, refs LOVE to blow the whistle and "clean up" play down there.  Mcvey is honestly very, very good with his hands down there (arms are always up, elbows out) and positioning and sealing.  But he's stronger than everybody and with the flopping he gets whisteld at least once a game.  Watch him on the block if you get a chance, his fundamentals w/o the ball are very good.

The PLU posts were disgusting.  Flopping on Mcvey twice for offensive fouls (bad too).  We all know the difference between a flop in the post and a charge, but refs love it.  Always excited to play Fox (Szalay hopefully wont flop), wu and ww so they guard him standing up.

Talked way too much about COTY...I stay the same, don't think doing more with less talent justifies COTY...go get talent. if james wins conference he deserves coty.

I'm as puzzled with born as you are... but please, kyle,  dont get us for 81 and 40 again when we play you...

Disagree with you on Tacoma, or as the rest of the board likes to call tacompton.  I think whitworth and linfield have it best.  LC, pac, plu, fox, will, and ups about even. fox, wmn slight disadvantage.

i got ups over fox, lc over whitman, pac over lin, will over ww...big friday night

saturday...wmn over will!!!, ww over lc, lin over plu, fox over pac

BV...what is going wrong down in mcminville???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 02, 2006, 04:33:50 PM
1. Question: Do they do Regional Rankings anymore? If so, when do they come out, or where are they posted to look at?

2.  I've got Bearcats 69, Pirates 64 on Friday, with UPS over Fox, Whitman over LC,  and Linfield over Pacific (I, like BHawks, am wondering how Linfield's football team can be so dominant, yet Basketball has fallen on hard times)...

3. Saturday, Willamette over Whitman 70-62, despite the double double Born will probably put up...

Pinecone, I'm assuming you got the Pirates winning friday, but give us some insight...BHawks, tell you're boys to be careful in Newberg, Fox can't afford anymore losses...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 02, 2006, 06:09:20 PM
Blackhawk, thanks for the good response, but it wasnt BVHawk who wrote that stuff it was me! I do feel for McVey though, the NWC is a guards conference and they get most of the calls and it can get fustrating. Biggest problem I had with the refs is not the baseline ref, but the one out at half court blowing the wistle on happenings in the key, when you know damn well he couldn't see what happend.
After living in McMinnville for 3 years I can tell you this, Linfield has a great campus and I am happy I went there, but McMinnville is a bit boring. Not really much there. Whitworth, my former roommate/ teammate who was from there used to always refer to Spokane as Spocompton. Like I said though maybe I am just being biased because I am from the Tacoma area.
As for Linfield they are having a real down year, they lost a ton of production to graduation. I read an article earlier in the year before the season started that said Chris Lewis, Blake Shelton, and Kreiger; myself, made up something like 70% of the team's rebounding, scoring and 3 point shooting and all of the shotblocking. Thats just a lot to make up considering the starting point guard graduated too. They lost the recruiting battle to Pacific over Ross Bartlett, a very good frosh post, because of an error by the Linfield finanicial aid department.  Last, the player that would have done the scoring in the post this year for Linfield suffered a season ending injury before official practice even kicked off the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on February 03, 2006, 09:19:58 AM
Blackhawk-
Great point about the post play in the NWC.  The refs do and have loved to make the call on the post for the purpose of "cleaning" it up since my days in the 90's. All it takes is one small bump from McVey and if the defender flops, the defender will get that call.  It is really sad in my opinion.

I am up in the air about the recruiting advantages and disadvantages.  I think UPS has a great location in Tacoma (compared to PLU). Whitworth seems like it would be nice during the spring when most recruits visit, but I always thought it was dreadful up there in the heart of winter.  Linfield has a campus that is one of the best in the conference and with a great sports school. LC has a great campus and location, but our student body is a whole different story (and when you visit and see it, you can easily be drawn away)!! Pacific and Fox I was never a real fan of either, along with Whitman.  UPS and Linfield should be winning most recruiting wars based on location and campus environments.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2006, 11:04:02 AM
Quote from: bearcatsfan3 on February 02, 2006, 04:33:50 PM
1. Question: Do they do Regional Rankings anymore? If so, when do they come out, or where are they posted to look at?

The first regional ranking will be released this coming Wednesday. The second will be released on Wed., Feb. 15, and the third will be released on Wed., Feb. 22.

Pat will post them here on the site, as usual.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 04, 2006, 01:40:09 PM
Brightside is you still control your own destiny bearcatsfan...You guys still win league if you win out.  But you gotta win all of 'em (still very possible). 

What you got going for you bearcats is you lost last night, and I really don't see you losing two in a row, especially to whitman, a team that is dangerous, but you should beat.

Salvage the split this weekend and you got two gimme's next weekend.  Then you have an absolute war in tacoma.  Then you gotta win at fox on senior night, which could get interesting.

Bad news bearcatsfan, you win tonight and the loggers clinch a spot in the NWC tourney.  You also gave Loggers a little breathing room out east.  They can split; take care of you guys at home and win league.

You also lost your tie breaker to ww and may have to travel for first nwc tourney game.  Regardless, can ww really beat you guys three times this year?   My money says no..wherever its played.

This will make things a little more interesting when loggers go to spokane...Game to watch tonight is LC/Whitworth...I got LC, Gailard's always got something crazy...My money also says you'll see the Logger coaching staff up there scouting that one.

Either way, I'm lookin forward to cuttin' them nets down february 17th after the wu game...a little later than expected, but a lot more exciting...and we still got the tourney.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 04, 2006, 04:10:02 PM
It was a big win for the Pirates last night.  So far Willamette's two worst shooting nights have come against Whitworth.  One time might be accidental, but twice indicates a trend.  However, I DO agree with BlackHawk, I don't know if a team ever wants to try and beat another good team three times in one year.

And BH is also right, but Bucs need to be careful about a letdown at Pioland tonight.  And the fact that its always so dead in that gym can make it harder. 

Interesting that Whitman and Willamette are playing the 4:00 game today.  Will anyone be there to watch?
Title: Tough Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 07, 2006, 10:38:59 AM
Between the Pirates beating WU, and then the 'Hawks handing over the Super Bowl, it was a tough weekend, and I just now have the ability to post anything worthwhile...

1.  Whitworth put itself right back in the thick of things by beating the Bearcats from start to finish in Salem...While pinecone is correct that shooting so poorly twice against the same team is an indication of the whitworth defense, I was at the game, and WU just missed tons of open looks. You could say Whitworth is in their heads perhaps, but half the missed shots came against a soft zone...

2. Whitworth does present some difficult matchups for willamette, as olinger was in foul trouble all night trying to guard pecht/tucker...

3. The whitman win (coming back from a halftime deficit using a 15-0 run) was a big win for the Bearcats, as it kept them in front of the Pirates (who now own the tiebreaker) and only a game back of the loggers (as Bhawks stated)

4.  Gotta believe the whitworth/ups game is the biggest of the season to date, as a logger win puts whitworth two back of willamette, and virtually guarantees them being on the road in the nwc playoffs...but a Pirate win puts them just one game out of first, and forces WU to have to win out to avoid being on the road in the playoffs...(I hope to see some breakdown of this game by both Bhawks and Pinecone this week)...

5.  Bearcats, while playing two teams with less than stellar records, still must guard against any complacency, as both teams have shown ability this season...Willamette cannot afford any slipups the rest of the way...

6. This is shaping up as a great finish to a great season (aren't you glad you didn't sleep throughout it all Bhawks?)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 08, 2006, 09:41:11 AM
Quote(I, like BHawks, am wondering how Linfield's football team can be so dominant, yet Basketball has fallen on hard times)...

ditto!
Title: Region Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 08, 2006, 04:34:54 PM
Region Rankings are out...

UPS is #2 behind Oxy
Willamette is #6

Question: The rankings list WU as 15-3 14-6 but aren't they actually 13-2 in region, and 14-6 overall??

Where's the Pirate/Logger chatter?

I like UPS to sweep this weekend...I know Pirates are tough at home, but it seems like the Loggers are a bad matchup for Whitworth, the Pirates are a bad matchup for Willamette, and the Bearcats are a bad matchup for UPS...interesting top 3 situation, and the rest of the league so far out of it...any Fox people with comments on what happened to the Bruins this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on February 08, 2006, 05:57:40 PM
it's kind of weird to see Occidental at the top of the basketball rankings, but they have the better record, and if UPS wins out (and I know that no given) I don't see how the committee can't move them up to #1. Occidental won't have a better in conference record, and I think the in-region record would favor UPS.

It'll also be interesting to see how the committee handles the three Winsconsin teams. I've been hearing that only 1, at most 2 of those teams could make the tourney. Could that boost the 'Cats chances? If they win out and then come in second to UPS in the tourney it would put some serious pressure on the selection committee.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 08, 2006, 11:54:33 PM
Well, Friday night is certainly a big game.  I can understand by Bearcatfan would be pulling for UPS because that would keep things simple for Willamette heading into the final weekend.  A Whitworth win definitely makes things more complicated.  The main reason I don't think the match-up problem applies between UPS and Whitworth is the first game was close and easily could have gone the other way.  In the Willamette-whitworth case, Whitworth won by 28 at home and 16 on the road.

But the Pirates are definitely the team that has to prove something this weekend.  The fact is UPS has won five in a row over Whitworth and the last two in Spokane.  It should be a better crowd since the student body is back in town.

Whitworth's forwards are playing really well right now.  They are getting toughness out of the post, which we haven't seen since Depew.  Biggest question facing Pirate fans - what would happen if B. Williams went down with an injury.  The guys is sometimes playing 40 minutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2006, 06:35:06 PM
The regional rankings are a joke!  Very, very confused as to how Occidental is #1????? 

UPS is 12-1 in region, and 17-3 overall--with losses to Warner Pac (#3 in the nation NAIA), illinios wesleyan (#7 in the nation D3), and willamette!  UPS also beat Riverside D1 (I know it doesn't count). 

Who has Occidental played?  La Sierra?  Pacific Union?  Terrible teams.  And did Occidental really only beat Cal Tech by 14!!!LOL.   I hope they played their last five guys the entire game.  And I hope those last five played left handed and blindfolded.  UPS played horribly at Cal Tech and won by 50.  You honestly cannot compare the SCIAC and the NWC, we've also beat them the past 2 years in the tourney. (yes i realize the wisconsin schools could use this entire argument about us!!)

Yes bearcatsfan, NWC play is tolerable this year...but just wait...UPS is still going to go 15-1 just like i've said all year.   (hope i don't pull a himjay).

But before that, UPS has to get something offensivley in Spokane.  Whether it's Curtiss, McVey, Marsh, whoever, they all can't play poorly offensively.  Be nice to see McVey have a big one.

In tacoma, UPS took Williams out of it by denying him the ball in the full court and making somebody else bring it up.  When he finally did get it, he played terrible(1st half).  Look for them to do the same thing in spokane.  If that doesn't work, look for the Loggers to "get gangster on Williams and slug him."

I'm worried about @ Whitworth, and terrified @ Whitman.

The Bearcats aren't a bad matchup with UPS. Their place is the toughest in conference (for UPS especially) and they're a good team this year.  UPS has lost the past 3 years at the second place teams court. 

In my opinion, UPS has a slim chance at making tourney if they win out and lose in playoffs, whitworth and willamette have no chance if they lose the tourney (regardless of who wins league).  Those bids will go to the wisconsin schools or other conferences.

And come'on formercat, you got all pc on us...that's not whats happening down in McMinville.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 06:39:21 PM
Congratulations to Phil Heu-Weller (3.96, Bus. Admin./Econ.) of George Fox for being selected today by CoSIDA (the College Sports Information Directors of America) to the ESPN the Magazine Academic All-District First Team for District 8, College Division.  By being selected, Phil automatically becomes a nominee for selection to the Academic All-America team for the College Division. 

Named to the second team for District 8 were Pacific Lutheran's Drew Cardwell (3.70, Physics/Math) and Whitman's Kyle Born (3.61, English).

Congratulations to these fine student-athletes!

Men's Academic All-District Teams (http://www.cosida.com/formpdfs/mb06acad.pdf)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2006, 08:26:44 PM
Blackhawks4,

You should learn a little bit about the regional rankings process. You mentioned all sorts of games that are completely irrelevant.

Check out my blog post from yesterday:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=125
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2006, 12:31:58 AM
Pat:  Maybe you misunderstood my post.  I said Occidental being #1 is a joke!!!  If you think Occidental is better than Puget Sound or any Wisconsin team you're drunker than I am on this beautiful thursday night (I'm a very credible poster).  I also mentioned that I knew the games were irrelevant.  What I'm saying is that the SCIAC is a bad conference and it is ridiculous that they are #1.  You can use all the criteria you want but that doesn't change the fact that if they lineup with somebody half decent they're gonna get run.   Come'on Cal Tech by 14!!!!  Cal Tech is the worst team in the nation...I think statistically...but I'm sure you know.  I know you go by the numbers and the official process but do you really want to take Occidental's side here???  Do they really deserve a first round bye? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2006, 12:48:46 AM
I've seen Occidental (vs. Amherst), and I've seen Puget Sound (twice, vs. Behrend and vs. Illinois Wesleyan).  Those games were a while back, and it's possible that things have changed.  But based on those games, I think Occidental is the better team.  And I'm not drunk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 01:06:00 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2006, 12:31:58 AM
You can use all the criteria you want 
Oh good -- because the criteria are all that matters in regional rankings.

By the way, I think there are probably 50 D-III teams that could have beaten UC Riverside at that point in the season.

You said:

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2006, 06:35:06 PM
Very, very confused as to how Occidental is #1?????

I suggested you read the criteria. That's all. Should be painfully clear if you actually bother to do so.
Title: Region Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 10, 2006, 01:18:32 PM
Far be it from me to jump on BHawks side too often in here, but if were talking about the criteria and "its painfully obvious," then you have Oxy with one region loss (to LaVerne) and UPS with one region loss (to #6 Willamette)...Oxy is 10-1 in region games, UPS is 12-1...they have not played head to head, and the only common region opponent is Whitworth, who both beat in extremely tight games...now, oxy is one game better in overall record, but that's not a true indication of much, as you never know how each team schedules (difficult, patsy, etc.)...

While BHawks is often quick to jump on the Loggers side in an extreme way, in this case doesn't he have at least an argument? At the very least, it is NOT painfully clear.

PC, also want your take on a NWC team getting an at large, as I agree with BHawks (twice in one day, I must be drunk) that UPS has the only shot at that at large selection...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 01:57:49 PM
The QOWI is far, far in favor of Occidental. Regional record isn't the only criterion. Again, back to the blog link I posted earlier.

He can argue that Occidental is not the best team in the West Region, but it's hard ... again, when looking at the criteria ... to say they shouldn't be the top-ranked team in said criteria.

I wouldn't rule out Willamette getting a Pool C bid if they win out and lose in the NWC final. There are 18 Pool C bids this year.
Title: Reg. Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 10, 2006, 02:19:18 PM
What is the QOWI formula? I went to the blog and saw the numbers (definately in favor of OXy) but how do you calculate it?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2006, 06:56:23 PM
Quote from: bearcatsfan3 on February 10, 2006, 02:19:18 PM
What is the QOWI formula? I went to the blog and saw the numbers (definately in favor of OXy) but how do you calculate it?

Score each in-region game as follows:

* 15 points for a road win over a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 14 points for a home win over a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 13 points for a road win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 12 points for a home win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 11 points for a road win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 10 points for a home win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 9 points for a road win over a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower
* 8 points for a home win over a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower
* 7 points for a road loss to a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 6 points for a home loss to a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 5 points for a road loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 4 points for a home loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 3 points for a road loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 2 points for a home loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 1 point for a road loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower
* 0 points for a home loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower

Add them all up, divide by the number of in-region games played, and there you have your QOWI.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2006, 07:34:46 PM
So I should expect to see Oxy in the Final Four huh? 

Something tells me the SoCal'ers should hold off just a minute before they book their flights.

I'm not arguing the criteria, I don't care even look at it.  What I can say is that Occidental is nowhere near the best team in the west region.  Now you can throw your numbers and stats at me but I guarantee you the second they lineup with somebody in that top 8 their going home!  And it's not going to be closer than 20, especially if it's a wiac school. 

Oxy is not better than UPS...I don't care where they play the game or if the use superbowl refs. 

Regardless...huge ups/whitworth game tonight...hope ww doesn't win and turn my whole argument against me
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 08:18:13 PM
All of that information is in the FAQ ... which is so frequently asked I have a link to it at the bottom of all of my posts.

So you are changing your tune. Fine. Just don't give me a hard time about it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 08:21:47 PM
I am not saying, BTW, that Occidental IS the best team in the West. I am trying to enlighten you on your original question:

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2006, 06:35:06 PM
Very, very confused as to how Occidental is #1?????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2006, 11:26:36 PM
not a good start by loggers, they'll be back...your radio guy is really good
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2006, 12:00:22 AM
Oof, you're not kidding about a not-good start, down 46-24 at the half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 11, 2006, 12:52:13 AM
lol...same thing i told bearcats...doesn't mean much, still control their own fate, need to split tomorrow.  sounds like ww's crowd was awesome
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 11, 2006, 04:22:46 AM
Not sure why anyone thinks that the NWC championship is already decided.   UPS & Willamette face each other next Friday & someone has to lose.  That means that one of those teams will have 3 losses, just like Whitworth.   Seems like the whole thing could get shaken up in the last few games!   We all know that any team can win on any night in the NWC --  it's been that way for years!!  No one should take George Fox, Linfield or Whitman for granted, or for that matter, PLU -- ask Whitworth!!  It just promises to get more interesting!!

By the way, I was looking at the box score for the UPS/Whitworth game & there was a lot more going on there than the crowd.  Like the shooting percentages!!  Whitworth WOW!  UPS Not SO WOW - which surprises me, because I've seen them play & they shoot well.  So maybe it was an "off night" or maybe it was good defense?  Hmmm.  Anyone see the game?

Willamette was awesome tonight against Pacific.   I think Olinger had a perfect night for 3's & they were really playing great team basketball!!  Their student crowd even showed up for the first half!!  Amazing!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 11, 2006, 12:05:37 PM
With all this talk about Willamette and UPS, people need to start considering Whitworth as the team to beat in the NWC.  Yes Whitwoth has 3 losses compared to the 2 losses by the other schools, but that was early.  Whitwoth lost their first regular season game to George Fox, at Fox after being up 22 in the second half and losing Tucker early in the game to a concussion.  Credit that loss to early season flunders and a great comeback by Fox. 

Whitworth did play Oxy.  In fact they led by 5 with under a minute to go.  Whitworth played bad and had Oxy barried.  The refs blew the game with an intentional foul on Whitworth, up 5 with less than a mintue to go.  That proved to be the deciding factor.  Anyways, just a bad loss.  But let me tell you, Oxy is not that good!!!  Period!!!

Whitworth was up 5 in the last 1:30 or so against UPS, at UPS.  Some costly mistakes and a great end of the game by Delong beat Whitworth.  However, there was a very questionable no-call at the buzzer!!  Possibly a charge, but I have heard from people who have seen the film that it looked like Whitworth's point guard got fouled.  That game should have been deciced with free throws with no time on the clock.  Oh well.  Whitworth simply did not get up for the following night's game at PLU.  That is a credit to PLU, who played a great game, and a discredit to Whitworth for not getting up for the game and taking their opponet for granted.  Unfortunately, had Whitworth beat PLU that night, they would be leading the NWC.

Whiworth had completely blown out Willamette.  Last night Whitwoth was up on UPS by 30 when the coach cleared the bench with 3:30 to go.  The game was a blow out from the start.  UPS's press created some turnover, and also a ton of layups and open looks.  Whitworth's defense was all over the place and UPS did not make an adjustment the whole night, they simply got outplayed and out coached.  People keep talking about poor shooting against Whitworth both times by Willamette, how about some good, in the shooters face defense?  Same thing against UPS.  Chase Curtis had his first two 3's tipped.  McVey got his first two jump up in the air and muscle it at the basket shots, slammed back at the floor.  Yes Whitworth had a great crowd, but their play on the court was much better.  UPS had great crowds at their place, and Whitworth was a no call away from a win on the road.

As for an earlier post about how much more talented UPS's players are than Whitworths.....  I think we saw who the player of the year is again for the 7th game in a row.  Lance Pecht!  He is near the top is most categories.  Including first in scoring and 3 pt percentage.  Not bad for a big guy.  He is near the top is field goal percentage, free throw percentage, reboounds, and is on the list in many other categories.  Plus he shows up in big games!  Bryan Willams didn't look to bad last night either.  Neither did the rest of the Pirates!!!  And how about Coach of the Year.....Jim Hayford has out coached Willamette and UPS on both occasions.  He has his team playing the best ball in the conference hands down. 

Now I know this post is very Whitworth orientated, but it is about time.  I have been reading about UPS and Willamette long enough.  However good comments and posts, but lets not forget about the team from Spokane.  I am not wanting to put down any of the other teams, but would like to point out the success of Whitworth.  It is shaping up to be a great finish and I wish good luck to all of the teams!!  Go Bucs!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2006, 12:39:50 PM
If they're that good, it shouldn't come down to one official's call. There was a phrase in this conference a few years ago, "Leave no doubt" -- do that and a couple points won't be the deal-breaker.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 11, 2006, 12:53:22 PM
oh my god bearcatsfan...where do these guys come from??? At least I only have to put up with em for 2 weeks and then they'll be done just like whitworth.  good win ww, ill admit you got a chance, i think whoever has home court advantage in the nwc tourney has a HUGE advantage.  loggers NEED to bounce back tonight (whitman is always a tough place for ups to play and their talented and big).  but i really don't see wu or linfield gettin ups at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 11, 2006, 01:24:48 PM
Wow, NWC bandwagon fan, ooops . . . I mean bball fan . . . sounds like whitworth is ONLY three excuses away from a perfect season! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 11, 2006, 03:05:02 PM
It was a huge game for Whitworth last night.  The Pirates played the same trapping zone that gave Willamette so much trouble and it looked like UPS was never able to adjust the game.  The 0-13 from three in the first half wasn't that much of a fluke.  The only open looks were from the corner and almost all the shots were rushed.

The Pirates are obviously the hottest NWC team right now, but they can't consider the win over UPS as the end of the road.  They have three key games left and have to keep it going.  However, if the Rats to win the final three against PLU, Whitman, and Pacific (combined NWC record of 11-28), then the worst the Pirates will do is host the First Round game in the NWC tournament.  So not only do UPS and Willamette have to win tonight against Whitman and Linfield, but the loser of their game next Friday looks like it could drop from a first to third seed.

BH, I know you like to back the boys you played with (Curtiss, McVey), but I think the most naturally talented player on that team is A. Williams.  Once the UPS team becomes "his" next season, I think he'll be a dominating player in the NWC for three seasons. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 11, 2006, 05:01:37 PM
Oh yes Blackhawks fan -- we really believe what you have to say.  I believe it's what you call "pulling a himjay?"  I'm referring to your statement that 'UPS is still going to go 15-1 just like I've said all year."   So -- UPS wasn't quite able to shut down Brian Wiliams or Lance Pecht last night.  I also watched UPS play the Bearcats at Salem & even though they had 3 more free throw attempts, UPS's 8.3% on 3's and 41.9% FG didn't cut it -- they lost by 9 points!  Really thought it would be closer than that since UPS is so great!!

Actually the top three teams are pretty matched.  Just depends on the night.  It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.  But UPS did lose at Whitworth & they will see trouble at Whitman -- everyone else does!   It ain't over yet!!

Don't count the Bucs or the Bearcats out - it may be UPS that drops to third -- guess we'll know more by next Friday!!  The real fact is that only one team -- UPS or WU can win next Friday and Whitworth has already played both of them twice.   One of those two teams will have 3 in the loss column, just like Whitworth.  And there's always the "spoilers" -- it's basketball -- sometimes the "bad" team wins!!

And Whitworth has a healthy George again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 11, 2006, 08:18:58 PM
I see that McVey only took 5 shots but shot 10 free throws. Did whitworth use the foul him anytime he gets near the basket stratagy? Linfield played over there last year they did that to me, works pretty well, its hard to get a rhythm going.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 01:13:43 AM
loggers bouce back...win at whitman...Sorry at the beginning i said 15-1, i guess it's only 14-2 and another conference championship...looks like we'll have to wait 'til saturday to pull out the scissors though huh...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 12, 2006, 01:52:09 AM
No -- they actually have to win the playoff series before you start celebrating & they have to get past Whitworth & Willamette to do that.  We'll just see!  There's no automatic NWC champ anymore -- it's back to the good ol' days of playoff stuff.  YAY!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 01:54:23 PM
Did you say "YAY?"  Correct me if I'm wrong but the NWC champ is the team that finishes in first at the end of the conference season, not neccesarily the team that wins the NWC tourney.

With the Loggers getting absolutely crushed in spokane and the powerhouse SCIAC (Occidental's gotta be the best team in the nation by now-right?) there is no way 2 NWC teams go to the tourney.  The winner of the NWC tourney will be the only rep. of the conference.

Loggers got absolutely nothing offensivlely from anybody in Spokane.  I thought that would be the key. 

I can't remember that last time I've seen a home court influence the outcomes of games as much as this year.  I think whoever has home court advantage in playoffs has HUGE edge. 

Whitworth is obviously hot, but honestly who do people think would fair best in the NCAA tourney?  I say (of course) UPS because of their style...I think wu or ww runs into trouble early with nwc being down. 

Curtiss had a monster game @ whitman--30 and 9.

UPS wins out wins league
WU wins out wins league

Somebody help me out with the scenarios:
WW wins out

UPS beats WU, loses to LIN (not gonna happen UPS senior night)
WU loses to UPS, wins @ Fox)

or

WU beats UPS
ups beats lin, wu loses @ fox (on senior night)

It hurts my head to think about it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 01:59:21 PM
What the hells karma and why am i -4?????  does that mean people dont like me?? i find that hard to believe.  is it because i disagreed with pat?  i hope he swoops in from nowhere to save the day again. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on February 12, 2006, 05:51:38 PM
Excuses keep coming about the way Puget is playing.  Oh and bbaddict, "pulling a Himjay", you mean being right.  I stated before how Whitworth was just, if not more talented than UPS. UPS is a well-coached team with some scrappy players that play hard every night but they are really not that talented.  McVey is a talented big man and williams is skilled, especially for a freshman. Curtiss is a streaky shooter who is also fairly talented. The rest are all solid role players that play each game like it is their last. Whitworth showed that they are every bit as good as UPS and dominated from start to finish. I think it just took them awhile to hit their stride. UPS is a good team though and I think all 3 (UPS, WU, WW) could beat each other on any given night.  As for the rest of the league:

George Fox-A little bit disappointing this year but trying to finish up on a good note.

Whitman- Improved team but they don't play much in the way of defense.

LC- Ineligible players and injuries hurt, but I think it might be time for their coach to hang it up.

PLU/Linfield/Pacific- Rebuilding
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 07:09:07 PM
bballaddict, i dont know why i'm even addressing you seeing as that in two weeks you will disappear along with whitworth from the nwc tourney.

But, pulling a himjay is when on friday night you say "Most teams (PLU the exception) are all matched somewhat evenly as far as talent goes, giving anyone a chance for an upset on any given night."  And then on Saturday, PLU beats you and you disappear from the board for 2 weeks.

Himjay, what excuses have been made for UPS?  The one thing I mentioned that could be considered an excuse is that McVey gets rough foul calls down low, but that wasn't even meant that way.  I've mentioned all year that I hope they can "pull it together."  If you want to see excuses read your boy NWC Bball Fan's post.

Himjay, it was one game!!!! Upsets happen (do I need to remind you about the Lutes). But,  UPS not talented? Curtiss..."fairly talented" and only a "streaky shooter." Not going to waste my breath. Do I even have to address this?  And gee, 3 star players and solid role players, yeah that sounds bad.  Who would want that?

   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 07:20:29 PM
if my karma gets any lower am i gonna get reported to the moderator?  then what, are we talkin fines, suspensions?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 12, 2006, 10:13:16 PM
Blackhawks:  What makes you so certain that I'm a Whitworth fan?  Maybe I'm rooting for the Bearcats?  One thing is certain -- I'm not for UPS.  However, if they do represent the NWC in the regionals -- I'd have to say "Go Loggers!"  And I'm not going to disappear -- you should be so lucky.  Oh yeah, you're the one with negative karma.

Actually, the phrase "pulling a himjay" was your phrase not mine & I took it to mean being dreadfully wrong about the outcome of a game.  Sorry Himjay.  That's what it sounded like.

Yes -- the home court does seem to be an advantage -- although Whitworth won at Willamette and they came close enough to make UPS pretty nervous in Tacoma.  With the stomping that Willamette gave UPS in Salem & how they've been playing, I think Willlamette will come out on top.

How does that work if Whitworth & UPS are both tied for second?  Who would get home court advantage?  I know they're split, but Whitworth beat Willamette twice, so would that put them up on on UPS?  Just wondering.

As far as games being determined by refs -- I was once told by an excellent bb player that part of the game is getting past the reffing & if you can't do that, you're not a very good team!!

Also, I think UPS has a lot of talent on their team -- their weakness is that they don't play "team basketball."  I think that's an area where Willamette & Whitworth (on a good night) do a better job.

So..... go ahead & guess where my loyalties are -- others have tried!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 12, 2006, 10:57:46 PM
Oh by the way Blackhawks -- the season hasn't ended yet & UPS doesn't have the final best record.  They could be tied with Whitworth by the end of the week.  Chew on that!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 12, 2006, 11:21:14 PM
bbaddict:  Nobody is amused with your "guess where my loyalties are" act.  Stop trying to play the middle ground so that you can jump on either the Willamette or Whitworth bandwagon if one of them happens to win. 

" . . .others have tried"  When was this?  Didn't you just post your first message yesterday?

By the way, its pretty easy to sit back and second guess people's predictions after the fact.  Why don't you step up to the plate and make one of your own?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 12, 2006, 11:34:57 PM
How come it is alright for Blackhawks4 to say whatever he wants about other teams, repeat over and over how good UPS is, and bash on other people's posts, but when someone else says something he acts like is the best thing since the invention of the internet.  I just want to remind him that Whitworth had UPS beat in the closing minutes and gave it away along with the refs.  Yes UPS earned the win.  Good job UPS, they are a good team.  But at Whitworth, they got completely dominated in all facets of the game as soon as the opening jump ball took place.  I can't stress enough how bad they got dominated.  They were down 30 when coach Hayford cleared the bench with about 4:00 remaining.  Say what you want about home court, they got worked over bad!!!  I am interested to hear your background..... are you like some basketball legend or something?  By the way you write on here, I would guess you are in the hall of fame or must live on the campus of UPS or something????  I know not everyone on this board agrees on everything, and that makes it fun, but one thing I am sure everyone can agree on is that you are not quite as cool to everyone else as you are to yourself!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 01:00:30 AM
NWC Bball fan:  I tried to read your post but I couldn't understand your sentences.  I'm not even going to reply because I wouldn't feel comfortable arguing with a little kid.   

BBaddict, I'm losing sleep here--lying in bed, tossing and turning...Who do you root for?

On a serious note, I'm interested in hearing you elaborate on UPS not playing "team ball."

I would also like clarification on the tie breakers.

I got UPS by 20 over Willamette...watch for the Loggers to come firing out of the gate and put them away early. Willamette's walking into a war zone in tacoma (should be a loud student body too)

They may have a slow start on senior night but they'll take care of Linfield. 

Have a fun trip out to Spokane Willamette, it seems like WW has your number.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 13, 2006, 01:10:18 AM
That is exactly the kind of responce I expected from the "oh so mighty" Blackhawk!  Whitworth owns the tie breakers over Willamette and UPS because UPS and Willamette split, Whitworth beat (killed) Willamette twice, and Whitworth has a larger (by 23) margin of victory over UPS.  Go to sleep Blackhawk, someone like yourself who has such a superior mind, needs some rest!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2006, 02:48:36 AM
Quote from: SpooH SreggoL on February 12, 2006, 11:21:14 PM
bbaddict:  Nobody is amused with your "guess where my loyalties are" act.  Stop trying to play the middle ground so that you can jump on either the Willamette or Whitworth bandwagon if one of them happens to win. 

" . . .others have tried"  When was this?  Didn't you just post your first message yesterday?

By the way, its pretty easy to sit back and second guess people's predictions after the fact.  Why don't you step up to the plate and make one of your own?


Gee SpooH -- you're as smart as your name -- why don't YOU tell me where my loyalties are?  Sometimes lives are complex & there's the team you want & the team you should root for!!   We can't all be simple.   And when did I second guess any predictions ?-- just pointed out that ONE of Blackhawks was dead wrong!!  No second guessing, just stating the facts!  I've not noticed that you have any constructive or informative opinions -- just kind of cranky anti-Whitworth posts.   From your clever name, we know you're a UPS fan.

As far as "others have tried" I'd like to point out that there is life outside of this forum -- you know, real people to interact with in real places -- you might try it.  So, yes I'm new to the forum, but hardly new to the NWC basketball world.  And, please don't suffer from that elitist view of we've been here longer so we know more!!  That is so anti-forum.

For Friday's game UPS/Willamette -- I'll say Willamette.  I expect it to be a fast paced, knuckle biting game with obnoxious fans & questionable calls, but the Bearcats will prevail   Have you seen them play recently?

Blackhawks4:  Get some sleep -- take a pill.  I cheer for whoever I want to, whenever I want to.  I'm impressed with some UPS players but their style of play seems ram & jam to the basket.  Rarely do you see any passing or assists -- it's kind of hotdog style.   I can't believe they don't get called more for offensive fouls -- they just run people down and most of the time get away with it.  Their team seemed more "team oriented" a couple of years ago, but not recently.

I think NWC bball fan is right about the tie breakers.  What about it Flegel or someone else that knows the ropes?

Here's what I expect:

Whitworth/Whitman -- Whitworth will win
Willamette/UPS -- Willamette will win
UPS/Linfield -- UPS will kill them
Willamette/George Fox -- will be close, but Willamette will win
Whitworth/Pacific -- Whitworth will win if they can see in the dark

I'm thinking it will be UPS that travels to Spokane and we all know how much fun that trip is!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on February 13, 2006, 04:56:42 AM
blackhawk, I think everyone on this board would agree that Curtiss is a streaky shooter.  Im not trying to put the guy down, its just the truth. The definition of "streaky" is someone who will shoot really well for a streak of time, then he will go cold and shoot really awful for a time. A guy who personified streaky shooting was John Starks.  Some games that Curtiss has had this year: 4-20 and 0-10 from 3 in a win over riverside; 4-18 in a loss to WU; and 7-23 in a win over PLU. He has also had some very good games like 10-17 for 27 in a win at LC and 8-13 at PU.  He is a very solid player who is as tough as they come and any coach would love to have a player like him on his team. His natural talent though, doesn't measure up to a guy like Jeremy Cross or Williams, but he gets the most out of what he has.  ALSO, did I ever say that UPS was BAD? All I said is that there wasn't much difference between them and WW/WU.  All 3 are well-coached and very good.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 13, 2006, 10:35:51 AM
bbaddict:  Ture, I have been somewhat of a "Lurker" on this board so perhaps it is time that I added my own (predictibly biased) analysis/predictions.  I will be the first to admit that UPS has been somewhat over-rated all year.  While it is obvious that Willamette and Whiworth have closed the gap, even UPS' wins have lacked the feeling of total domination that was present the past two seasons.  Williams has neutralized the loss of Cross for the most part, but the Loggers sorely miss Shelton and O'Donnel. 

That being said, I think that UPS has to remain the favorite until they lose a home game (in the midst of a three-year NWC undefeated streak).  They do control their own fate, and I have to believe Curis and McVey will be hard to deny on their home court. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on February 13, 2006, 10:55:44 AM
Wow, I'm gone for a couple days, come back and the board has gone from blackhawks and bearcats throwing picks back and forth, to a bunch of people with hurt feeling feelings crying and yelling at each other...

bbaddict, we're all really happy that you have a life outside of this board, but we really don't care if nobody else in this world can guess where your loyalties lie. My question is this, who do you root for if whitworth and willamette play? or do you just sit back and wait for one to win, then say that's your team?

I do aggree that UPS by 20 over Willamette is a little much, but I still have them winning relatively easily—by 10-15. Bridgeland will have them as ready for this game as possible and the combination of the loss to Willamette and the embarassment at Whitworth should have the Loggers playing with a huge chip on their shoulder. They'll come out hard and keep it up the entire 40 minutes, I think they'll even make Nolan Richardson be proud, but the 'Cats have too much riding on the game too to lay down so they'll make a couple of runs but will come up short. In the end Curtiss and McVey have to get back to the tournament, they can't let the two routs by UWSP be their tourney legacy. To do that Curtiss needs to not turn ice cold again and McVey needs to step up and actually dominate a game instead of just putting up nice numbers.

As far as the NWC and NCAA tourney go, UPS will get the #1 seed, and will hold on in a tough game against whichever team hosts the first game (back to the homecourt advantage in the WU/WW series). In the tourney UPS is either going to lose their first game, or make it to the elite eight. There's no middle ground for this team. If they lose in the first it will be because Curtiss is ice cold, McVey gets in early foul trouble and the freshman play like freshman. As good ass Williams is and as much promise as pinkney and foster have, they are still freshman and have played like it in the losses this season. If UPS makes it to the Elite Eight it will be because Curtiss is shooting well, McVey puts up 16 & 10 and stays out of foul trouble, Williams doesn't have another 6 or 7 turnover game and pinkney and foster provide the combination of length and athleticism in the press that UPS didn't have the last two years against UWSP. This is definitely within the Logger's reach, but I don't see how they can make it to the final four. It's too much to ask of a team with three freshman averaging over 15 minutes a game, including the pg, and another getting over 10 a game.

If UPS loses in the conference tourney I don't see either WU or WW winning a game in the tourney. I say this not because I don't think either has the talent to win one, but because I can guarantee you that the NCAA selection committee won't do either team any favors with their draw. They definitely won't get a home game (if the committee is reluctant to fly teams into Tacoma or even LA, there's no way they'll do it for Salem or Spokane.) So they'll have to travel, probably to Wisconsin, and they'll have a macthup against a top 15 team at least, and probably a top 10 team, in there first game. The environment will be hostile and the refs will treat them like a bad high school JV team. (If you doubt the committee would do this, remember that #8 UPS had to play #9 Buena Vista last year in the second round. How the committee could feel that was fair to either team is beyond me, so it obviously had to do with geography and money.) I'm sure both teams would play well, but all of those factors combined with the difficulty of playing in your first tourney will be too much for them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2006, 11:27:10 AM
ds0097:  Believe me I wish the conflict I have was as simple as Whitworth v. Willamette.  Let's just say sometimes I cheer for excellence or pick the team I want to win that night.  What's the relevance anyway?  If I had to pick a team this year, I'd probably say Willamette.  They have my favorite coach & play well together as a team.  They have a couple of superstars In Olinger & Stuvland -- but mostly just a whole bench of solid players that can work together to get the job done.  FIfe has to be one of the best freshman in the conference.  He'll probably get better at defense when he's bigger.

As far as the NCAA not wanting to fly people into Salem or Spokane.  Hello.  Linfield Football has enjoyed home field advantage for years now & football teams are larger than bb teams!  Salem is not that far from Portland.  I'll grant that Spokane is out of the loop, they got screwed on that in 2003, but as I understand it, it was a lack of available facilities.   I don't agree with you that ONLY UPS can do anything at the NCAA tourney, but then, I've seem Whitworth & Willamette play this year?  Have you?  Or have you looked at the team stats on NWC site?  I'll agree that UPS dominated a couple of years ago, but this year they've squeaked by on a couple of games.

Spooh:   Thanks for your post.  I've never said that UPS isn't good -- just that I'm not rooting for them.  My only point is that they're not as good as their hype & they can be beaten.   And, I also said if they make it to the NCAA tourney, I'll root for them.
Title: Wow!
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2006, 01:03:07 PM
Gentlemen, its like a whole new board in here! Awesome!

1.  BHawks, UPS by 20 is a ballsy pick my friend...yes, I'm sure you're citing recent history in Tacoma (ugly, ugly losses for WU) but this is, in essence, the conference title game, and with two good teams, a twenty point blowout would be shocking...Explain to me how a UPS squad that was down double digits the entire time at Willamette (until the 1:00 mark of the 2nd half) is going to gameplan/play so much better that there is a 30 point turnaround? Remember, this is the same UPS team that just got ambushed by 20+ in Spokane, from tip to end...if you would have said UPS by 5, I'd give you that as a respectable prediction...
2. Whitworth folks: Is there room left on the Pirate bandwagon? BHawks does have a point...Where were these Pirate backers when it looked like they had no shot at the title/NCAA's?? They are clearly playing amazing basketball right now, and are sitting basically in 2nd place (as the loser of WU/UPS will fall to third), but let's stop short of declaring this a Whitwash...they will be on the road in the NWC title game (barring a total collapse from the 'cats or loggers), and much can be said for home court advantage (yes, they beat the bearcats in Salem, but the "stomping" you refer to had WU down 5 with 4 to go when Olinger fouls out...)
3. As far as NCAA tourney predicts goes, how can you jump from UPS getting smacked in the mouth by whitworth to "UPS will go to the Elite Eight"? While Logger fans have every right to be confident, this is borderline ridiculous...worry about the NWC tournament first...(by the way, I believe any of the three NWC top dogs could win a game, maybe two in the NCAA's)

My Own Crystal Ball:
WU beats the Loggers in Overtime, as McVey will foul out and the Bearcats will shoot in the high 50's to get the 96-92 victory...Willamette will follow with perhaps an equally as tough game in Newberg, where Fox's seniors will put on one hell of a show, but ultimately run out of gas, as WU wins the NWC with a 85-80 victory...Whitworth will survive Whitman (what else is new) and a surprisingly tough Boxer squad in FGrove (how can WU beat them by 35, then they beat LC by 31) to finish second, and will host the Loggers in Spokane in the semis...

I will say, that as a WU fan, my biggest fear is not Tacoma Friday, but Spokane/Tacoma looming as a possible mountain to climb the week after that (if WU can't win Friday)
Title: Sidenote
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2006, 01:08:46 PM
On another couple of notes:

1. No one has explained Karma yet, but I see my boy BHawks just keeps dropping...why?

2. Does PC and the crew know WU beat Linfield on Saturday? Their Region and overall record hasn't been updated...

3. Whoever thinks Bob Gailard should "hang it up" is out of their mind...sure, LC is a far cry from the glory days of the early portion of this decade, but they have some great young talent, and Gailard can flat out coach (he may rub some people the wrong way from what I've heard, but he has too many career wins to "hang it up" after a season where their post player (Magnuson I think is his name) didn't play, and they relied heavily on sophs and freshman)...

4. What the heck happened to Whitman's season? Started off well, then turned in a standard Whitman performance...chalk me up as being way off base on the Molitor coach of the year talk a month or two ago...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 02:52:01 PM
Beacrats I thought you knew me better by now, would I ever pick UPS in a nail biter??

Gotta agree with bearcatsfan, any coach that plays for a D1 national chaqmpionship is allright in my book too.  L & C is always well prepared, despite the lack of talent as of late (although their younger kids look pretty decent).

If you think Willamette is coming into Tacoma and beating the Loggers friday on their homecourt you're crazy, not gonna happen.  Honestly, UPS at home and on the road are 2 different teams.  UPS had ww by 20 in the first half out here before almost choking it away.  And there is no way UPS loses on senior night. 

McVey took what 5 shots the past 2 games???  He played 15 min due to fouls at whitman and it sounded like whitworth flopped around like a dying fish on him.  Shame, was hoping someone would stand up and play defense like a man.

Whitworth is hot! But did they peak too early.  Look for them to fizzle out and lose in that first round playoff game at home!!! They embarassed UPS and beat willamette twice, I see them dropping first round.

I see Loggers winning a first round game in the NCAA (anything else would be a huge bonus) tourney but not ww or wu for similair reasons as cited by ds007. 

Curtiss is a scorer and he produces. He had a bad one at whitworth, but in all those games (even when he's off) he produces and puts up numbers.  When he was a freshmen he was a shooter, his game has developed and if you see him play, he goes to the rim first!

UPS doesn't need your karma. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on February 13, 2006, 03:22:29 PM
Yeah I'm curious what karma is as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 13, 2006, 03:24:47 PM
Quote from: andrewf on February 13, 2006, 03:22:29 PM
Yeah I'm curious what karma is as well.

That certainly is a Frequently Asked Question (http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?category=Message%20board) in here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 13, 2006, 04:23:29 PM
Where in the world did you hear that Whitworth flopped around on McVey like a fish out of water.  I am not aware of one flop!!  Did he even have any offensive fouls?  The simple fact is........McVey is a great athlete and has a great D3 body.  But he lack any post moves what so ever.  He can catch the ball with his back to the basket, turn to his strong hand, jump way up in the air and shoot it.  That is his only move.  And if he is left open, he can dunk.  He is a pretty good presence on defense, but nothing special.  Definately one of the more dominating players in the league, but not close to player of the year caliber.  Born from Whitman, except as of late as the whole team has seemed to crumble, has out produced McVey.  You are full of bold predictions, and they are always in favor of UPS.  When someone else praises thier team, you shoot them down, and yet again talk up UPS.  You are the only person on this entire board that thinks UPS only looses when they play horrible and when they play decent, spank everyone else.  They just do not have dominant talent over the rest of the league.  However, I do think they will win the league and then lose to Whitworth by 10 + and your  beloved home court in the conference championship.  I bet you that the UPS coaching staff and players are very scared of Whiworth.  I can't wait to hear your reply.

I am not so sure that people are bandwagoners for begining to post.  I have liked and followed Whitworth all year, just because I was not posting on this site, does not mean I am now on the bandwagon.  Like mentioned, people do have lives outside of this site.  This is a fun place to discuss basketball, and most of the time the discussion is good.  It seems however there are some peope who act like they know a little more about the game than they do.  As far as home court advantage goes...  It is all mental.  Good teams go out there and play their game, regardless of the court.  By the end of the year, and experienced teams, should not let where the games is played be an excuse for a win or loss.  If McVey and Curtiss are as great as Blackhawk makes them out to be, as seniors, they should be able to win anywhere!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2006, 04:49:13 PM
I think the implication that BHawks, myself, and maybe pinecone "have no lives" because we post in this site is a stretch...we're simply excited about our teams, and, obviously like to argue about things...anyone posting in here, yet clinging to the "hey, I have a life buddy, you don't" is the kettle calling the teapot black argument...I think if you look at the stats of the other conferences' postings, MANY people across the nation must be suffering from a lack of "life."

Question:  What has been the key for Whitworth's resurgence lately?  8 game win streak is impressive, especially considering after the PLU loss they were looking lost...any thoughts from Pirate Nation?

DC-thanks for the karma read...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 13, 2006, 05:21:05 PM
Bearcat, I appreciate your message.  I guess I followed up on the "better things to do" comment because I was responding to Blackhawks comments about people just starting to post, and his continous insults about irrevevant information, when his is no better.  I think everyone has valuable stuff to say, and I think the arguing is great, but the personal attacks are childish.  With that said, I am not going to get into this conversation anymore, and strictly talk and argue basktetball.  That is the fun part.

Personally, I feel that Whitworth was just not playing to their potential earlier in the year.  All of thier losses have been a result of blowing a big lead and losing in the closing seconds, being up about 5 in the last minute or two and giving it away, or performing down to the level of the competition on a night after a tough loss in the closing seconds.  That is not to make excuses, but to say Whitworth did not know how to finish early in the year and no do.  They have 5 guys averaging 11 points or more (Williams might be a little lower now, but is leading the league in minutes played and assists) and have a 6th man who has lit UPS up for 50 points in two games.  They were stuggeling for a while to find their indentity.  I think now they believe in their Coach and eachother and they have been very dominant.  The two forward Pecht and Tucker are very difficult match up problems and their big man has been dominating the interior at times and has done a great job on the boards.  Young commands a lot of attention and really stretches the defense.  Williams is just solid every night.  Basically I think there play over the last month is a result of finally displaying what has been there all year.  With that said, I think Whitworth is still capable of being beat, but they would have to play bad.  Pecth is as good as any player in the country the last 8-10 games and his versatility and ability to score anyway possible has really propelled the Bucs.  The last two game of the season and playoffs should be exciting with the top three teams.  I look forward to watching some great basketball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2006, 07:01:21 PM
Me too -- great basketball ahead!!  Isn't it great that there's 3 teams so close in the running that people are nervous?  Better than just one team shutting out everyone -- or at least it's more interesting.

By the way, I didn't say people don't have lives because they post here.  I was responding to a nasty comment about me being a new poster, so how could such & such possibly be.  I believe we got it straightened out.

So -- let's talk about basketball.  What is Karma?  Do we get to vote on it?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 09:45:26 PM
"I am not aware of one flop!!  Did he even have any offensive fouls?"

McVey's very first foul was offensive, it was a 1-on-1 post move from the block where the defender went down.  Come'on we all know that one.

"You are full of bold predictions, and they are always in favor of UPS."

Yes.

"You are the only person on this entire board that thinks UPS only looses when they play horrible and when they play decent, spank everyone else."

Never said anything of the sort.

"lose to Whitworth by 10 + and your  beloved home court in the conference championship"

Not at home.  Just promise you'll gimme a "Go Loggers" when your boys are eliminated

"I bet you that the UPS coaching staff and players are very scared of Whiworth."

LOL.  Ahhhhhhh...

"experienced teams, should not let where the games is played be an excuse for a win or loss"

Seems to me home court advantage has been big part of top three teams w's and l' this year

"his continous insults about irrevevant information"

Scroll back, point to one.

"but the personal attacks are childish"

Point to one

"Pecth is as good as any player in the country the last 8-10 games"

He's played well as of late and has made himself a NWC POTY candidate, but maybe you should see some of the players on the other side and in the midwest first... he's nowhere near.

And i have a life...i keep myself occupied...just yesterday i read every single post anyone from any conference has ever made on this board
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 09:54:04 PM
bearcatsfan...we've has our differences, but you're the only one i trust on this (and spooh but hes been in and out, but at least here for the season)...

if it was just you and me, what would you give me for karma...

I'd give you 100 karma points ;)...just as long as you don't disagree with the powers that be
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 14, 2006, 01:45:31 AM
Bearcats, to answer your earlier question about the key to Whitworth's streak - I think it comes down to a simple match-up advantage.  The Pirates are really the only team in the league with two true forwards playing alongside a post.  Nearly every other NWC team starts a three-guard lineup.  With Pecht starting at small forward, he has had a huge match-up advantage that the Pirates have been able to take advantage of.

BH4 - I am agreeing with you for like the third time in the last week.  Sheesh, what's the world coming to?  Actually you are very correct that Whitworth needs to guard againt peaking early.  The last four weeks have been a steady build in intensity - first they had to come off of the Tacoma trip disaster by beating a hot Whitman team, the next week was about revenge against the giveaway at George Fox, the next week was a big win at Willamette, followed finally by a statement win over UPS.  This week could be ripe for a let down if the players and coaches aren't careful. If it wasn't the last week of the season and the playoffs so close, I think the danger would be greater.

But as it is, if Whitworth wins twice this week, the worst they do is host the first round playoff game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 14, 2006, 01:51:41 AM
How do you know he is no where near the best (Pecht) Have you seen all these team play?  I have seen quite a few of them play!!  And will say he is in the top of the nation for D3 athletes.  I did not say he was the best, but his play as of late is right up there!  His abilities that he brings to the court each night are unlike any player in the conference.  He is the only player that is truly unguardable.  If his numbers are not up on a given night is because he did not get the touches, or he guarded himself.  I don't see how you cannot see that.  Especially if you are the talent evaluater that you say you are.  You responded just how I thought you would?  Are you really that conceited or are you just having fun on the board?  I hope it is the second of the two!  Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 14, 2006, 01:57:25 AM
I almost forgot.  McVey had one foul the entire night against Whitworth.  So if Whitworth was doing all this flopping, it actually only happened one time, if any.  Foul trouble was not the issue.  He just simply got out played.  His first two shots were sent right back at him.  In fact, if anything the refs were putting him on the line.  They were rewarding him for catching the ball, turning to his right hand, dipping his shoulder, and jumping up in the air while throwing the ball in the direction of the rim.  If not for that he would have been held to about 4-6 points.  Whitworth spent the game with there 4 and 5 in fould trouble the entire night.  They barely played 40 minutes between the two of them.  But they did both finish 6-6 from the floor. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2006, 02:29:16 AM
Somebody else please talk some sense into this little kid...

#1:  Pecht has played excellent as of late and (of all people to say this, me) has made himself a legitimate POTY in the NWC.  But for god's sake...he is nowhere near (even of late)the best players in the country at this level.  There is nobody right now in the NWC that deserves that distinction.  The NWC is down as of late.  There are players that do what he does but are bigger, stronger, more athletic, and on quality nationally ranked teams.  Bearcats, pinecone-- (I realize it's your guy but are we gonna put him at a level with depew), maybe even pat coleman????  Somebody?  I've tried.

#2:  You responded to 2 of my rebuttals and are dead wrong on one of them (Pecht- and I hope others will speak the truth on this also)  and proved my point on the other.  Anything else???

#3:  When did I say I was a "talent evaluator?"  In fact, I believe bearcats fan and I joked about our lack of credibility in this area earlier in the year.  That was probably before the bandwagon picked you up though. 

You can't just make stuff up and say that people said it on the board because we'll call you on it. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 14, 2006, 03:46:36 AM
blackhawks4:   You seem concerned about the negative karma thing -- so here's a suggestion.  Disagree with posts without personal put-downs.  And give up on the bandwagon thing -- you should encourage new people to contribute to the forum because it gives you someone to jaw with besides bearcats & pinecone.
Title: Re: Sidenote
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2006, 04:45:51 AM
Quote from: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2006, 01:08:46 PM
2. Does PC and the crew know WU beat Linfield on Saturday? Their Region and overall record hasn't been updated...

No. If neither school logs in and posts the score then the region and overall record doesn't get updated.

There are 800 Division III basketball programs. We have zero full-time employees. That's why we rely on the schools to post the scores. Since that only takes 60 seconds a score that doesn't seem much to ask.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 14, 2006, 10:17:25 AM
Quote from: NWC bball fan on February 14, 2006, 01:51:41 AM
How do you know he is no where near the best (Pecht) Have you seen all these team play?  I have seen quite a few of them play!!  And will say he is in the top of the nation for D3 athletes.  I did not say he was the best, but his play as of late is right up there!  His abilities that he brings to the court each night are unlike any player in the conference. 

bball, I'm afraid you are going to have to do some name-dropping if you want to compare Pecht to the best in D3.  Who are these great teams/players you have seen?  Oh please, please tell me you're talking about OXY!

Even IF Pecht was regarded as having the best skill set in the conference, this doesnt necessarily mean he would stack up against guys from around the country.  As much as we all love the NWC, there's no disputing the fact that the league does not traditionally compare well against the likes of the WIAC, OAC, etc.  A player capable of dominating in these conferences would have an absolute field day on most nights in the NWC (and I'm not talking about the kind of numbers Pecht has put up recently).
Title: Nationwide
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 14, 2006, 10:46:52 AM
Pecht is an excellent player in the NWC...which, traditionally, would put him somewhere in the category of MAYBE 4th team/HM All-AMERICAN in D3...you have to remember the sheer size of, say, the WIAC schools, and the ability to recruit better players to those size schools...guys like Devean George (LA Lakers, three WC rings) and Horace Jenkins (Pistons) make first team, and no one in the NWC is close to those type of guys...heck, I bet BHawks himself would tell you tales of the guys Stevens Point trotted out in Tacoma a few years ago...ballers...if you look back thru this sites list of All-Americans, you have exactly TWO NWC players, Depew and Scott Davis of LC who made 2nd and 4th teams respectively...is Pecht on their level? Scott Davis, who I saw play 3 times, is better than Pecht, and while Depew may have not been as athletic, you cannot argue with his numbers and put Pecht anywhere near him yet.  BHawks is right on this....no way Pecht is on a NATIONAL level (definately a first teamer in the NWC however.)

Pinecone, I think you nailed the Whitworth thing...for whatever reason, the pirates have pummeled smaller lineups, and haven't had to deal with the repercussions of their bigs guarding smalls...

BHawks gets a 4 in Karma from me...sure he's obnoxious occasionally, but honestly, would this site have any life at all if he wasn't on here?

PC...was not implying you were not doing your job...simply asking the question, and no, it is not too much to ask...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2006, 03:18:14 PM
A little obnoxious?---that's all, you like me don't you bearcats?..Hey we still got room for you on the Logger bandwagon...Yeah, it starts up friday night in tacoma, and it doesn't even have to travel anywhere until NCAA tourney time.  You can't sit shotgun though, that's reserved for BBall Addict when his team is gone.  Sorry NWC Bball fan, you got the back seat...It's illegal for your car seat up front, and my car only has the safety locks in the back.

Seriously, I still think POTY goes to winner of nwc...curtiss, olinger, or (now) pecht...I know it doesn't matter this year, but curtiss did get snubbed last year.  All this ww talk has made me forget about wu, who is in town this weekend for the most important game of the year! 

If UPS is at home the rest of the way...they win
If they go to wu....uuuuhhhhh
If wu or ups go to ww, i think ww's in trouble...They embarrassed ups and have beat wu twice...although i pick ww over wu, if i'm a betting man i'm not liking ww's odds of beating wu 3 times and definately not ups 2 out of 3...you definately cant count on your 6th man having another big one...rule of percentages
if ww goes to wu: i still say ww, with slight hesitation

BBall addict: 

"Disagree with posts without personal put-downs."

I already asked your boy NWCBball fan show me one that i've made in all 80 posts.  The closest I've come is jawing with NWC Bball fan about being a little kid...Just one.

And you didn't catch the sarcasm in the karma thing huh?  Ok... I could care less about karma, and have said my opinion no matter who disagrees.  Who cares about karma when you're a second stringer! Pretty soon I'm gonna have some karma power and I'm takin the man down.  I know I dont say much, but boy I do like to read my own posts.

Watch it bearcats, steppin on pc's toes like that....you're gonna end up with karma like me...then the whitworth guys will report you to the moderator.
Title: Re: Nationwide
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2006, 03:29:30 PM
Quote from: bearcatsfan3 on February 14, 2006, 10:46:52 AM
PC...was not implying you were not doing your job...simply asking the question, and no, it is not too much to ask...

No problem -- I didn't take it as an attack, just answering your question.
Title: UPS vs. WU
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 14, 2006, 04:37:21 PM
BHawks:  Keys to the game Friday.
Whitworth fans: Any hesitation about tonights game in Walla Walla? You guys seem to own Whitman, but they're a decent team at home...also, you guys got some love with the front page picture of Pecht on d3hoops

My Keys to the Game:
1. Tempo: Willamette successfully kept the game around their pace in Salem (77-68 is not a favorable scoring night for UPS)...but the last few times in Tacoma, it looks like the Loggers have swarmed them
2.Conversion:Can Willamette shoot in the high 50s to 60s range and make UPS pay for pressing them...can UPS turn WU turnovers into a run (8-0 here, 12-3 there) and pull away early?
3.Fouls:  Can WU not only get McVey in trouble, but can they get to the bonus early in each half to slow the pace and get free points...can UPS stay out of the bonus and continue to play at their reckless pace, with McVey and Curtiss in the game.
4. Atmosphere:  BHawks, apart from yourself, are Logger fans going to show up to this game? WU has packed Cone Fieldhouse, and it sounds like Whitworth has been putting butts in the seats...can you guys answer the bell?  The louder the better for UPS, and the smaller the crowd, the better for WU.

Pinecone or bball or NWC: Does whitworth want to see UPS or WU in the tourney?  Would they rather go to Tacoma or Salem? (obviously they want to be in Spokane, but they'd need one of the those two to tank both games this weekend)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2006, 06:30:23 PM
Bearcats: 

I think the logger offense will be firing on all cylinders, especially with a large crowd.  If they're playing well offensively, wu will have a lot of pressure to match them offensively to stay in the game.  I don't think tempo is that big of an issue.  The loggers get better each year at playing lower scoring games. 

What this game comes down to in my opinion is Willamette's field goal percentage.  You're dead on with your conversions point.  If WU get layups, easy buckets, and open 3's all night (55-60% fg), and don't turn the ball over 30 times in the press, the loggers are in for a loooooong night.  If the loggers limit will. to around 50% from the field and force an avg. amount of to's I think UPS wins this hands down.  UPS is significantly better at home...which is why they need that home court.

Loggers can't give up layups all night...it's a killer, especially if we are forced to work hard for ours on "o," and then give them away in the press.

Loggers also can't let olinger and others tee up open 3's all night.  Interested to see olinger play...haven't yet. 

Is it just me or did the POTY ballots narrow down to 2, Pecht and Curtiss.  And i believe those are casted this week.   

Good to see nwc on front page.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 14, 2006, 07:35:58 PM
bbadict, nwcbbfan - the surest sign of a newbie on this board is someone who takes him (or her) self too seriously.  If you get offended by what someone says about you on this board, then you are taking yourself too seriously.  How can someone truly insult you if they don't even know you?

Now it might be double standard, but I did respond to what I thought was a cheap shot at the NWC SID.  But all the other stuff was just banter.

As far as new folks showing up here when their teams do well, that is just the nature of these boards.  UPS was never heard from at all before 2004.  When L&C is doing well, you hear from more Pioneers on this board.  Same thing with George Fox last year.  Its a free country and no one has to prove themselves first before they decide to join the conversation.

Tough game for the Pirates tonight.  Whitman has two big guys who minimize the match-up advantage on the front line.  The Missionaries played Whitworth tough in Spokane this year, and I know those seniors will not want to go out without a win against Whitworth.

BH4, I think the WU-UPS game will be a close one.  In my opinion, UPS does not have the intimidation factor this year that they had in the last two.  Don't know if its because they have not posted the kind of blowouts this year they were known for the last two years, or if the NWC coaches are finally responding to the UPS game plan. 

Bearcats - What was interesting to me is that Whitworth beat UPS without trying to slow the game down.  In the previous two years (at least in Spokane), the Pirates tried to control the tempo.  And though they played close, they didn't win.  But this year they went back and forth in both games.  They lost by only one in Tacoma and won by 24 in Spokane.  Maybe teams have been too focused on slowing the game down against UPS?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2006, 12:36:00 AM
Just for the record -- being offended & recognizing offensive behavior are NOT the same thing!  I was just commenting on someone's karma issue.   And Bhawks4 -- I'll be honored to ride shotgun with you, if you'll agree to ride in the trunk if the bearcats win.  Deal?

Did anyone see the picture/article about Whitworth being a possible Pool c on the front page of this website?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2006, 12:52:23 AM
Any news on the Whitworth/Whitman game tonight? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 15, 2006, 01:41:03 AM
Whitworth 88, Whitman 74

Box score (http://www.whitman.edu/athletics/sport_texts/game23-mbb06.html)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 15, 2006, 10:01:44 AM
Can only bring up Glory Days...

http://www.auburnjournal.com/articles/2006/02/03/sports/local_sports/02sierra.txt

Jeffrey Weidel, Gold Country News Service
Auburn, Calif.

"He was driven, intense, possessing a competitive nature so great he
could motivate an entire team just with his actions. Yet glancing back
on his stellar basketball career at Sierra College, Gary Donnell would
rather have other people discuss his immense inner drive."

"After two years at Sierra, there were choices again for Donnell, who
opted out of a letter-of-intent to Gonzaga University and decided on
Linfield College, a powerful NAIA college in McMinnville, Ore.
Linfield coach Ted Wilson heard about the exploits of Donnell on
practically every trip to Roseville while visiting his longtime friend
George Sargent."

"I worked at the Texaco station (at Keehner Avenue and Douglas
Boulevard) near my house and Ted used to fill up his Orange
Thunderbird there," Donnell said. "He was always talking to me about
Linfield. I decided not to go to Gonzaga and just showed up at the
Linfield campus one day and he got me in."


Title: Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 16, 2006, 11:15:39 AM
Huge night last night in the West Region, as OXY falls at Redlands (126-120) and Buena Vista knocks off Wartburg in the IIAC, meaning 2 West Region ranked teams go down in the same evening (the #1 and #4 respectively), both to opponents with sub .500 win% in the Region...

That being said, I cannot say I am surprised that WU fell out of the rankings this week...despite their now having the best record in region games in the West, and owning a victory over UPS (the #3 team) in the region, I knew their QOWI was very low in comparison to some other teams (the Linfields, PLU's, and Whitman's being below average this season has hurt both WU and UPS's Q rating)...While i obviously believe the 'Cats should be in the top 6 at least of the West, they have no better stage than Friday to go out and earn that recognition...

Getting close to gametime Friday night...trying to find a way to get up there with some other 90s Bearcats like myself...Bhawks, I'm sure you're heated over the region rankings this week...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 16, 2006, 05:40:38 PM
Hard to be upset or argue about regional rankings when loggers get slaughtered by 30 in spokane.  Doesn't matter...all it comes down to is this weekend.  Bearcats...what should i expect from wu? you saw last game.  You guys run the flex at all or slow it down and force the loggers to guard in half court for extended period of time? hope you guys make it down...dont bring too many though

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2006, 03:11:40 AM
Shame that the best team in conference isn't playing Friday night.

Loser of the game falls to third in conference, winner gets to hope the loser upsets WW at WW. 

What a country, I mean conference.

WW looks to have come together as a team and is playing with confidence.

Just to explain what i see....

9 game win streak in conference looking at 10 after Sat, a win at WU that WU knew they needed, a destruction of  (no 3's no way) UPS at home.  No one wants to face Pirates right now.

Good luck to the winner and loser of Fridays game in conference tourney, they will need it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 17, 2006, 10:10:10 AM
Tie-breakers?  I thought we had this figured out.  The Tribune seems to think that a UPS/Whitworth tie would go in favor of the Loggers . . .

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/colleges/ups/story/5531613p-4981877c.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 17, 2006, 10:21:36 AM
Based on the conference tie-breaking procedures, I've got to believe the TNT is wrong . . . 

http://www.nwcsports.com/information/governance/bkbprocedures8-05.pdf

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Grutte Dirk on February 17, 2006, 10:23:47 AM
Is there a forum that discusses Northwest Conference sports not found on D3sports.com?
Title: TieBreak
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 17, 2006, 11:22:47 AM
WU's website also states that the loser of this game, UPS or Willamette, will fall behind WW, as they hold the 2-0 sweep of the Bearcats, and are 3-1 vs. the other two, while UPS would be just 1-3 if they fall at home tonight...


BHawks, I don't see the Bearcats running much flex...in the last game they broke the press, got a lot of easy baskets, and spread UPS out in the half court...the 2nd half was much more difficult to score, as WU got a bit conservative, and UPS was very effective in the half court with their pressure...I think WU will have to take lay-ups when they're there...Whitworth didn't seem to pull back too much in their attacking of UPS pressure, and WU should follow the blueprint...that being said, UPS is bound to shoot better at home, so I think the score will be a little higher than last time.  Bearcats 84, Loggers 80.

I doubt WU or UPS are "shaking in their boots" at the thought of the Pirates Mr. 1903...respect the way their playing, of course, but I'd imagine both teams would love another crack at Coach Hayford's team...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 17, 2006, 01:09:37 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2006, 03:11:40 AM
Shame that the best team in conference isn't playing Friday night.

Strictly based on W/L for the season, the best TWO teams in NWC are playing Friday night -- each other.  You can bet that Hayford (& maybe some of the team) will be there watching.   Just like Bridgeland & the gang was in Portland on February 4th at the games.

I think I agree with Spooh on the tie breaker thing.   Wow - that must be what's causing this Arctic freeze thing!!  Whoever loses tonight will be playing in Spokane, assuming that Whitworth wins at Pacific.  (Not always easy unless you bring your night goggles.)  Whitworth is not impossible to beat at home --  I remember George Fox beating them in the Fieldhouse & that was when Fox lived at the bottom of the conference.

So -- it's all over but the shouting -- or the crying!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 17, 2006, 01:10:15 PM
Sorry I goofed that up -- chalk it up on being a newbie!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 01:34:25 AM
Sorry bearcatsfan...I was off by 5 on my prediction.  Loggers by 25 tonight.  Quite the tank job huh?  I'll tell you this much, not only are we better, but as muhammed ali would say...we're prettier!!!!!! Good lord.

I'm really done being polite and chummy on the board.   Curtiss embarrased Olinger tonight (they went head up all night).  I almost felt bad for John.  Curtiss torched him.  Olinger for COTY???? Get outta here.  i don't even wanna hear it. 

Loggers win conference!  Again...Go ahead, haters, give your COTY to James.   I don't wanna hear it...Loggers 3 straight NWC championships, but bridgeland gets what 1 nwc coty?  He built this program in what, 5 years?  Gordie's only been there for 80 years.  But he does more with less talent.  Go get some talent.  There's more to a season than october through march...oh wait nobody else in the nwc ever plays in march...i mean february 

And give your poty to pecht... Skip we all know you don't like curtiss. i would imagine hayford through his vote away (which he should if he's lookin out for his boy).  harshman hasn't done anything at plu so im sure he threw his to pecht to downplay the success of ups.

Its fine..everybody did it last year right??? George fox!  Don't give curtiss or bridgeland the respect they deserve.  But i guarantee you i'll be the one on the board talkin' in a week.   I don't care how hot ww is.

Bandwagon boys... i don't wanna hear your guarantees or your "mark my word"...because i will, and you won't respond next saturady night, when i'm here talkin about the loggers and the tourney.

You get the loggers at home and your in trouble.

Curtiss a streaky shooter??? Don't wanna hear it.  He's a scorer.  Haven't seen stats, but how many 3's did he shoot tonight.   SCORER, producer, leader.

Props to coach James...wow, every year seems to do a lot with what he's got.

Crowd was pretty good, down a little form the past.  Best chant..."John needs a shower."

You know, I said all along i disliked the conference tournamnet.  This year though, with ww turning it on so late...I think it's great!  Let's get ww out here, and let's have a battle for the automatic bid to the big dance!  Shoot, let's have the best team from the nwc go....I know the loggers already proved they were the best through a 16 game season, but you know what, the pirates are hot, and im all for a little competition...Let's see who the best in the nwc is...head to head saturday night in the fieldhouse...sorry wu you got no chaqnce out in spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 01:56:53 AM
Karma keeps droppin huh????   

Pat coleman is so cool.

I know its not as important with tight playoff race, but what the nwc all conference team should be...

POTY: Curtiss
COTY: Bridgeland
pecht
olinger
mcvey
born
scmick

What it will be...

POTY:  pecht
COTY: James
curtiss
olinger
mcvey
born
schmick

NWhoops1903, did you really go through the whole registration thing for 1 week?  Waste of time.

BBal addict:: You still got shotgun.

Oxy the best team in the region lost???? No way!  To a good team too, huh...Didn't see that coming.

bearcats...hate to be a knitpicker..but you forgot one off of your all american list...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2006, 02:04:13 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 01:56:53 AM
Pat coleman is so cool.

I'm not the one smiting you, but ok, whatever. :)

Anyone with more than 200 posts can add to or take away from a poster's karma.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 18, 2006, 02:12:03 AM
Certainly one night doesn't make a POTY, but BHawks is right that Curtis vs Olinger wasn't a contest tonight.  An uninformed  observer might even have had a hard time identifying Olinger as WU's best player.  However, it wasn't a bad night by Olinger that determined this game.  Curtis and McVey set the tone with an intensity that the Bearcats simply couldn't match.  Willamette was never comfortable with the Loggers D and found a way to travel or fumble away the few easy looks they got when they broke the press.  Either WW or WU will have a nearly impossible time beating UPS in Tacoma if the Loggers turn in a remotely similar effort.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2006, 05:00:32 AM
Nice win for UPS, but who is really surprised.  Not me.  UPS is always tough at home and WU sounded helpless or even worse pathetic.  I guess they thought McVey couldnt' beat them...they we're wrong.  McVey played big
and they paid the price for trying to man him.

Finally WU can feel good about those pioneer, missionary and boxer victories but they haven't won a game that mattered since they beat UPS.  Nice season..good record...good night WU.  I predict WW handles WU in Spokane despite a spirited effort that runs out of steam mid second half.  WW 95   WU 81

Congrats to Loggers on a hard fought conference reg season title.  3 in a row is quite impressive EB should get COTY for winning conference..end of story.

POTY...hmm..let's see...leading scorer....most POTW awards....is this voted on after conf. tourney?  IF WW wins tourney Pecht, if UPS wins I still say Pecht...haha  GL LP!

If Pirates lose Sat. to Pacific I will be amazed and amazingly wrong but I will drive all the way to WU to watch them make history by beating WU 3 times in one season.

Now to respond to you regs...never even saw the forum until last week so get used to my Pirate posts.

Bearcatsfan3 quotes a ghost saying something about "shaking in boots"...I said and I quote " No one wants to face Pirates right now."  And I stand by it.  UPS would love to see WU come back to get McVey'd again. Great game Big Log.  Check your own boots bearcat and learn when and when not to use quotation marks.

No reason to argue with bbaddict cause statistically he is right...but we all KNOW, so am I..especially after WU's egg Friday.  Didn't WW lose at UPS by 1 point and had a final shot that missed to win that game? That's not what I heard at the end of tonight's game.

I raise my glass to NWC HOOPS...GL to all and may the best team win the tourney.




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 18, 2006, 05:27:57 AM
Who are we kidding?  Did we watch the same game?  The guys in stripes should've been wearing Loggers unis!  UPS traveled so much they should get frequent flyer points & they hammered Olinger & Stuvland (and anyone else) anytime they got near the hoop -- and hardly ever got a foul call.  Traveling got called several times on Mansfield & Erickson, however.  And, what did those refs have against our Freshman Fife?  He looked crosseyed at someone & got a foul.  Of course UPS won by 25 -- actually it should've been 40 with the guys in white, whoops I mean stripes on their side.  What can you expect in Tacoma?

I'll ride shotgun -- but only if you actually finish the job.  The conference tourney determines the champion -- not the regular season win/loss.  So, this week is about position & home court advantage, but next week is about winning the conference.  We'll talk then!!  It ain't over ....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 18, 2006, 11:39:27 AM
I thought it might not be long before a WU fan cried "foul" about this game.  No UPS fan has ever disputed the fact that the Loggers push, pull, and hold in any effort to turn you over or get to a loose ball.  It has become a trademark of the Logger's run over the past three years.  I thought the refs established early that they would not call every ticky-tack foul in the back court, but would reward teams if they forced the action and took the ball to the hoop.  Certainly, this plays right into the Loggers style, but most players/coaches will tell you that all they want from refs is consistency and WU never adjusted.

As for your conspiracy theory . . .


Fouls

WU - 27
UPS - 27


FT Attempts
WU - 34
UPS - 40
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 18, 2006, 12:09:13 PM
Of course the stats bear out your story -- but I was there!!  The stats don't show traveling calls or lack thereof.  Your Antwan rolls around the floor with the ball & they get to call a timeout or he passes it -- no travel?  And WU's guys would head to the basket with 2 or 3 players all over them -- no foul, but at the other end, we'd get what you so kindly refer to as a ticky tacky foul.  The other stat that never shows up is when the color blind refs gives possession to the team who knocked it out. 

OK, OK -- I'll take some cheese with my whine!!  WU had an "off" night & the Loggers played well.  But, it still isn't over, so don't start cheering about the Conference Championship.  Regular season just gets you there -- you still have to win it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 18, 2006, 01:57:11 PM
BHawks: 

Are you really going to let this guy ride shotgun?  Might be a long ride to Wisconsin with him in your ear.


bbaddict: 


Another loss might not affect the standings, but I think you're walking into a trap game tonight.  Fox has been playing better recently and something tells me Schmick is going out in a blaze of glory with three fingers held high. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 03:21:46 PM
The game was officiated fine. Regardless, in a 25 point blowout the officials don't have much to do with it.  And it seemed every bit of that 25. 

Bottom line:

Willamette shoots 42% and turns the ball over 25 times.

McVey 30 and 15 on the biggest night of the season.  Curtiss 21 and 8 assists?! 6 boards.  What about Jason Foster...16 off the bench, hittin the floor hard and boardin.

Hope loggers put it away early tonight.

Whitworth:  Continue to flop on McVey next week.  It's your only chance of stopping him (you saw what happened when willamette tried to stop him)-- if he stays out of foul trouble.

Bearcatsfan...hell of a job by James this year, but I just don't see how you guys can win @ ww...talentwise it just seems to me that you're overmatched.  Do you agree?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 18, 2006, 04:17:33 PM
Bhawks:  Of course it was fine in your neutral position of what was.   Wouldn't expect that you would have noticed any problems with the stripes.  Did they really shoot 42%?  That's amazing with all the bodies hanging on them and smacking at them.  Better than I thought.  It'd be really fun if Linfield was the spoiler tonight, but it's probably not going to happen.   Yeah --- the 25 turnovers are a reflection of the traveling calls, and blind ref moments that I was talking about.  It's OK -- that one's on the books.  It's just not over yet.

Spooh:  WU knows that Fox is a tough place to play, but Schmick isn't as great as he imagines himself.  That #24 (Satern) is the one to worry about & Szalay on the boards.  Pretty sure the Bearcats will win it tonight.   GFU will definitely put up a fight.

Could be interesting night for Whitworth though -- playing Pacific in their dark gym.  Pacific beat Whitman last night & Whitworth hasn't played since Tuesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 06:34:37 PM
You're ridiculous.  It was a 25 point blowout!  Why are you wasting space complaining about the refs?  It was 30 with a minute to go and our go-to-guys out.   

Bball Addict:  It is over.  WW or WU will not beat UPS in Tacoma.  It's over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 18, 2006, 06:51:57 PM
Look at the stats for the Whitworth/UPS game at Spokane!!! McVey had one foul!!  So where was all this flopping taking place??  Tell me please!!  That is such a stupid comment.  Get over it!!  McVey did have his first two shots shoved back in his face.  Is that your definition of a flop? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 11:43:48 PM
is it really 46-15?  loggers have put it together...see you saturday whitworth
Title: Stop the Madness
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 10:37:25 AM
#1: I knew it was a mistake to wait until work today to post again...I leave, come back, and a) "It's all over" and b) I don't know how to use quotation marks (my fault nwhoops, I was implying that you're ridiculous post about UPS/WU loser fearing whitworth was [insert synonym for stupid] and [insert synonym for outrageous], and by using the made up quotation, was summarizing your claim with an equally poor phrase...

#2: As for the game, I watched in horror from the upper level of Memorial Fieldhouse as WU turned in a pitiful performance...and UPS played emotionally and physically inspired. The Bearcats were undone by McVey and Curtiss' energy level, and their own lack of toughness with the ball (contrary to fellow fan bbadict's claim, WU was simply too soft with the ball, and failed to be tough around the rim)...were there some questionable calls? Absolutely, but there always are, and this game was not decided by officiating...

#3: BHawks, you've got reason to feel confident, but I'm sure you're not suggesting that one below average performance defines a player's season...if so, then we'd better drop Curtiss from the POY and 1st team race, because Chase tanked at Whitworth and at Willamette during the season (7-29 with 7 turnovers in the two games)...Olinger was 5-8 friday, but had 5 turnovers...a poor game for him, but do you really want to just throw the "torch" around? "I don't even want to hear it."

#4: Willamette rebounded nicely with a tough win at a GFox team that was playing on senior night, with a group of seniors who had never beaten Willamette in their career...a 79-76 victory.

#5: WU at Whitworth...not ideal travel for Willamette this week, facing a Spokane/Tacoma doubleheader...apparently they should just save themselves the trouble, and let Whitworth/UPS meet in Tacoma...what a joke...check your history nwhoops...2002, WU defeats Whitworth twice in the regular season, only to have Pirates dance on their face in Salem in conference tourney...It is tough to beat someone 3 times in a season...

Title: ALL-NWC
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 10:44:50 AM
BHawks, you can calm down a bit

EB gets Coach of the Year (deserving)

But, Pecht gets POY...not a bad choice, but I'm not sure a team that wins its 3rd Conference title in a row doesn't deserve to have the POY, especially when it has two worthy candidates...

OXY loses the SCIAC to CMS, does that mean the NWC champ will host an early round game?

Congrats to Olinger and Stuvland on their 1st team honors as well...

Pinecone, where are you? I'd much rather listen to you explain to me how Whitworth's gameplan or execution will beat WU again, than read through nwhoops' "helpless" and "pathetic" rants (I wonder if those quotes work)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2006, 11:51:38 AM
OK - OK, WU had a pathetic game at UPS last Friday, but it's not going to happen again.  They've beat Linfield & GFU on their senior nights, but it wasn't happening with UPS, which by the way, wasn't Senior Night -- it was Player night!  Who has those?

Don't think it matters how the team finishes for the POY or for All Conference teams -- I think they just go on stats.  Pecht deserves it -- probably a couple of others do too, it was probably close.  What I don't understand is how McVey beat Szalay in the Post position.  That position should be about blocks & rebounding, not scoring.  And Szalay can't be beat in those areas.  He got ripped off.

I'm pretty sure that Whitworth is more worried about WU than UPS.  Beating a team 3 times in a season will be tough.  And it definitely isn't over!  Thanks bearcats for backing me up on that!  Let's not forget that both WU & Whitworth have beaten UPS this season -- not like previous years when they seemed unstoppable. 

So -- is there snow in Spokane?  Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2006, 12:49:31 PM
No...definitely not, one game doesn't define a season.  But on the other hand, this was a highly anticipated one-on-one matchup, in the biggest game of the year for the conference championship.  And on Friday night, Cutriss lit Olinger up.

At least thankful bearcats is back for some intelligent viewpoints on friday night's game.

I got whitworth too thursday night.  I realize it would be 3 times in a season, but it is in spokane, against a more talented team, that is very hot.

Watch out for UPS though.  Did they finally put it together witha blowout win a against wu and then destroying linfield.  UPS hasn't done that all year!

Pecht was deserving, but I don't think more so than curtiss.  I agree with bearcats when he says, "I'm not sure a team that wins its 3rd Conference title in a row doesn't deserve to have the POY, especially when it has two worthy candidates..."

"What I don't understand is how McVey beat Szalay in the Post position.  That position should be about blocks & rebounding, not scoring.  And Szalay can't be beat in those areas.  He got ripped off."

?????????????????????Bearcats is this worth responding to???  Fine, addict you take dikembe, ill take shaq.  Right, dikembe boards and blocks shots? 

Surprises..George Tucker-top guy 2nd team, nobody even mentioned him...
Wells...2nd team, well deserving
Stuvland-first team...with teams success he deserved it



Title: All-NWC
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 01:15:52 PM
While I'm not going to throw my guy bbaddict completely under the bus (can't do that to a loyal Bearcat fan), I will guess that the Szalay thing must of been put out there just to get BHawks to put his head thru a wall...McVey vs. Szalay (from the three games I've seen, two vs. UPS and one vs. GFox) is NOT CLOSE...Szalay is a fine player who does the board work, but McVey is in another class athletically, and offensively...

It might be more along the lines of Shaq vs. Rik Smits...

Found it interesting that WU only got 2 players on the list, while Fox and Whitman (who WU swept, and finished way above in the standings) got three a piece...now, I'm not saying guys like Ricker and HWeller weren't deserving of a HM, but Luchterhand had a nice year for WU as well...but, these things are often a matter of who even gets nominated, which coach gets along with another, who wants to help their own guys by voting for other guys, etc...

The real prize is decided Thursday and Saturday...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 21, 2006, 02:52:55 PM
ouch UPS gets slapped in the face losing the POY award after winning the conference title again. McVey is better the Szalay, scott is tough and a hard worker, but not better than McVey. and will people stop reffering to how so and so beat Linfield, thats not saying much, we are no better than a JV team this year.     
UPS have any immediate impact recruits coming in next year? they may have a tougher time defending the championship next year. they have two players who will/could be good, williams & pickney, but other than that they have a lot of role players better suited to come off the bench. the talent of each UPS team has decreased since the first season they won the conference title, can bridgeland restock?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2006, 03:44:44 PM
Formercat, I really don't think the POY was a slap at UPS.  I think what Bearcats said is true - UPS has two worthy candidate for POY and it could very well be that they split votes, which allowed Pecht to get into the top spot.  Which is not to say that Pecht is not deserving, because when you look at NWC-only stats especially, which I think the coaches do, he really stands out.

Overall I think the coaches did a pretty good job of selecting the team.  I was happy to see Tucker get in there where he did. He is one who does the hustle plays that don't often get into the box score.

It should be interesting on Thursday.  Yes it is difficult to beat a good team three times in one year.  And yes, I also remember 2002 when WU beat Whitworth twice in the regular season before the Pirates won handily in Salem in the playoffs.  One difference I would point out, however, is Whitworth's two losses that season were by three points and the Pirates had a shot to tie at the buzzer each time.  Willamette's two losses this season were by double figures each time. 

Bearcats, any idea what kind of support will be making the long trip to Spokane on Thursday?  Tougher to do during the week, but I read that they are letting students from both teams in free this year.
Title: Thursday
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 04:10:04 PM
Doubtful there will be many Bearcats in the stands on Thursday...maybe even low on the parent side of things, as midweek long trips tend to suck vacation time from the vault....I know most of us will have to rely on old Mike Allegre (sp?) and his WU broadcasts from Spokane...he does a great job promoting WU athletics (as well as some Valley League sports), so we won't be too far out of tune with what goes down Thursday night...

Good point about the point differential Pinecone...although, looking at the stats, that 02 Bearcats squad was not capable of shooting the ball at the clip this one is...granted, Whitworth has harassed Olinger, Stuvland, and company into some horrific performances this year, but any team that shoots the ball from 3 as well as Willamette does has a punchers chance at any time...

Pinecone, is this the best Whitworth team of the Hayford era? OR would you take the team that won the NWC title in 03?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 21, 2006, 04:41:18 PM
pineconefan, no doubt pecht is a good player and deserves first team recognition but i am a firm believer that the team who wins the conference should get the POY award. unless, someone carries a team like linfield or pacific had this year to a top 3 spot all by themselves. such was not the case this year like it was not last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2006, 06:06:25 PM
From:  NWC Basketball Bylaws:
5.0 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP
5.l Determination of Conference Champion
5.1.1 The champion will be the winner of the NWC championship
basketball tournament. (Adopted Spring 2004)
5.2 Dates and Times
5.2.1 #3 seed plays at #2 seed on Thursday prior to NCAA selection
Sunday, and the winner then plays at #1 seed on Saturday prior to
NCAA selection Sunday.

So -- why does everyone keep refering to UPS as the Conference Champs?  They finished the regular season in first place, but they still need to earn the title.  I think WU & Whitworth still have something to say about that.  The "old rules" of he who finishes first, takes the conference is gone!!  It's about playoffs.  (And #2 & #3 have both beaten #1 this year, so it can happen again!)

And Second:

7.1 All-Conference
7.l.1 Conference coaches will select a Player of the Year and First and
Second All-Conference teams. Both teams consist of five (5)
players. The Player of the Year is the eleventh person. Ties are not
allowed. There is no limit on the number of All-Conference
Honorable Mention. To receive All-Conference Honorable
Mention, at least one vote must be received.
7.1.2 Conference coaches will nominate their own players for
consideration. Nominations are then voted on, but coaches may not
vote for their own players.
7.2 Most Valuable Player/Champion(s)
7.2.1 The Conference Most Valuable Player will be the player in the
men's and in the women's division accumulating the most All-
Conference points as voted upon by the respective coaches.

So formercat -- doesn't matter what you believe -- the POY is picked by the coaches.  It has more to do with points along the way, then with how the team finishes.   So, theoretically a really great player on a crappy team could become POY -- doesn't usually happen that way, but it could.  Might be some truth to the fact that UPS nominated too many & it split the votes, but the coaches don't get to vote for their own players anyway.  Guess it encourages truthful assessment.  Really, though, the whole All Conference team thing just leaves out some really great players -- it just depends on what position you play.

Thanks for not throwing me under the bus Bearcatsfan -- tough to cheer from there!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2006, 06:36:22 PM
I honestly do not see willamette winning in spokane, and i hope they don't.  BRING ON WHITWORTH.  We all know what happens when willamette comes out here.  If wu comes i might just listen to the slaughtering on the radio and save myself a couple bucks.

Curtiss got snubbed, but it was expected...the same thing happened last year.  As bearcats said...lots of politics in the process, who likes who and who doesn't.  Other hand-- Pecht was very deserving-- however in my opinion not enough to take the POTY from a unbelievably worthy candidate on the regular season champ.

I want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court.   The one time i saw pecht he wasn't very impressive.  Obviously his numbers were good, but i want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court playing for the conference championship (thank you bball addict -- a quality post...wow...someday ill have one of those).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 21, 2006, 07:59:38 PM
will the championship game be played at UPS or is it at a neutral site?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2006, 08:24:30 PM
UPS hosts the championship game.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2006, 04:55:58 AM
coty and poty are both fine choices...eb and lp both had the stats and wins to back it up.  I hope a 6th place team never has a poty and as i said before..reg season champ should be coty....congrats to both men.

thanks for the history lesson and the thanks for the second history lesson backing me up about WU.  Difficulty of winning 3 times is overrated and I know Vegas never cares about that myth.  If WW chokes at home or WU goes 3pt crazy...you would have a case but....don't think so.  Let's just wait and see.  I do think it will be close, oh yea..CJ first team.. :o unreal...only mistake on the whole ballot...Sz or Born were much better and who needs 4 guards anyway.  Politics I guess.

I hope to make it to UPS sat regardless of Thu outcome, but who really wants to see another WU annialation.  I saw the WW game at UPS earlier this season and it was fun.

Watching Peche and Curtis matchup at UPS would be fun even if curtis won't (can't) guard him....laffin.  Problem is WW doesn't have a def stopper for Curtis..maybe they will both score 30 and the real battle will be between BIG Log and BIG Pirate...edge to UPS cause McVey plays 3 inches taller at home.

And yes all 3 teams are playing for League title...no 06 banners hanging in Tacoma just yet.




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 22, 2006, 10:36:21 AM
Stuvland's numbers speak for themselves (16.0 ppg in conference games, 43% from 3, 33 minutes and 1.6 steals) on a team that went 13-3...

The All-NWC 1st team has included 4 guards 4 out of the last 6 years.

What an "Annihilation" of the voting process...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2006, 11:35:06 AM
Yeah -- what's with that anyway?  Why does the voting process favor the scorers?  A lot of scoring in basketball happens because the big guys make room for the guards or get the rebounds for second (or third) chance points or block the other team's shots!!  Coaches should have to nominate people for each of the positions.  Let's reward the guy who leads in steals, assists, rebounds, & blocks.  Teams aren't just made up of guards/forwards.

nwhoops1903:
Stuvland is a young but awesome player.   He's definitely not a mistake on the roster, although I would've liked to have seen another post player.  He has another year of eligibility, but he's a senior so I don't know if he'll play next year.  You saw WW play at UPS, but did you see them at George Fox ?  or Pacific Lutheran?  Or did you see UPS at Willamette this year?  Those were also some interesting games.  The Willamette team that played at UPS last week was not the team that's been winning games.  They were timid & unsure and don't expect that team to show up in Spokane.   Whitworth & WU have had a strong rivalry for the past 5 years at least -- since Hayford came to Whitworth.  Both teams have been in the top 3 spots for 4 out of the last 5 years and the games against each other have almost always been close or OT situations.

It's better for the NWC if UPS doesn't win the title, because then we'd have an automatic bid & everyone knows that UPS would get a Pool C bid because of their record the past 3 years.
Go Bearcats!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 22, 2006, 12:51:33 PM
Just a clarification about the NWC procedures that were quoted earlier on this board.  There was a mistake in language that was adopted by the NWC Board of ADs last Spring.  The current language does state that the winner of the tournament is the NWC Champion, but that will be changed the next time the ADs meet.  After consultation in January about this issue between the commissioner, the AD basketball liaison and myself, along with the basketball coaching chairs, it was concluded that the intent of the coaches was to consider the regular season winner as conference champion.  The winner of the tournament is awarded the NWC's Pool A bid to the tournament.  So Puget Sound will be given the NWC Championship trophy and has been awarded first place points in the All-Sports trophy standings.

Pretty sharp group of fans to catch that mistake, so thanks for keeping us on our toes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2006, 09:32:49 PM
I didnt say CJ was a bad player...just not his team leader...like the big men I mentioned...put him on second team and I say nothing about the kid.  Oh, and lets not jump on spelling mistakes guys...much more to point out hopefully than my 6th grade education.

WU will bring a good game to Spokane and It may be close but I just can't see a team that hasn't lost in over a month, lose at home where they are UNDEFEATED this year to a team that has to be saying they missed their chance amongst themselves.  The fall from first to third on Friday and then WW getting the job done at the dreaded Pacific Cave before their 8pm tipoff had to have had some negative effect.  I am glad they won Sat so that they aren't on some losing skid.

I agree that UPS is a lock for Pool C if they lose but I just wonder if the Sat's loser will get in too, no matter what.
I figure WW makes a good case for finishing second in conference and finishing the season strong.  An OT loss or UPS win on a buzzer beater, heck a game like Jan at UPS could say the WW is just a notch below and deserves consideration.  I just can't see WU making a similar or strong case unless they win out.  No matter what I would love to see to NWC teams in.

Wish they were playing tonight!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 22, 2006, 10:07:51 PM
Regional Rankings are out . . . with UW-Stout #1 and UPS #2 in the West.  What are the chances of UPS hosting a regional if they win out and Stout falls?  I think UPS finished first in the region last year when they were forced to go on the road after the first round.  At the time, I believe that an argument was made that the NCAA doesnt like to allow teams to host on consecutive years (obviously $ is always a consideration as well). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2006, 04:18:07 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2006, 11:35:06 AMIt's better for the NWC if UPS doesn't win the title, because then we'd have an automatic bid & everyone knows that UPS would get a Pool C bid because of their record the past 3 years.

Puget Sound's record from the past three years wouldn't matter one bit. If they got a Pool C bid it'd be on the basis of how they fared in terms of the criteria this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2006, 08:20:36 AM
So -- how does that work?  They only have two regular season losses - one each to #2 & #3 in their conference -- both with .8 + seasons.   Where would that put them regionally, especially if it's a close one?  Just humor me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2006, 10:10:30 AM
By the way, according to Steve Flegel, keeper of the NWC site, UPS is the 05-06 Champ in Men's Basketball.  Congrats to Bridgeland & his team -- I stand corrected.  (Actually they're having it corrected . . .)  Enjoy the honor & the points for the All Sports trophy.

That, being said, may I just say "GO BEARCATS"  before I hit the long road to Spokane.  I believe there may be a few noisy fans there -- it'll be tough to notice because the colors are so similar -- but we'll be the ones loudly cheering at "inappropriate times" if you're the home team.

I'll watch out for buses!    ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 23, 2006, 04:34:32 PM
Addict why don't you catch the wagon in spokane with whitworth and meet up with the loggers down here in tacoma? 

Do we really think the winner of this game (whitworth) is going to play thursday, travel over to tacoma and beat a fresh ups team with 5 seniors at their place where they haven't lost a conference game in 3 years?  Not happening.

Boy, what I wouldn't do to see those all conference ballots...maybe have a LoggerGate 2006?

Don't be so sure a UPS loss is better for the conference.  I don't like the idea of having the best NWC team hoping for an at large bid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 23, 2006, 07:40:19 PM
If Chase Curtis would have won player of the year, it would have been as bad as when Matt Glynn won it over Brian Depew!  Glynn was a decent player on a good system, but that is it!  Depew was a much better player! 

Fortunately for the rest of the league, UPS's system is not as strong or intimidating this year.  Don't be so sure that those senior will be hoping for a Pool C bid!  Just remember that the games are won and lost on the court and not in your head Blawkawk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2006, 11:33:08 PM
i thought this would be close but this is tooo close...< 1 min left

and its a 4 pt game!!  peche hits both ff...thats poty clutch.

go Pirates
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 24, 2006, 01:32:42 AM
Willamette deserves a lot a credit tonight.  Olinger came to play and had a great game.  Those last two threes were clutch.  Stuvland was still MIA offensively, but was solid on defense.  The Willamette big guys played much better than they did in the first visit to Spokane and almost were the difference.  But it was still too much Pecht and Tucker for the Pirates.  Willamette had to guard one of them with either Miller or Olinger and that's just too tough of a match up.  I think both Pecht and Tucker got 75-80% of their points posting up. 

Hoping for a great game on Saturday.  Bob C. wasn't there tonight (Chuck Debruen - blast from the past), so I don't know if he'll be calling the game Saturday.  I hope so.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 24, 2006, 10:31:21 AM
Tough, tough way to end the year for Willamette....really was surprised by BWilliams missing the FT with 3.9 left, giving WU one last chance at the tie...only to see them turn the ball over...

In the end, Whitworth was simply a better basketball team...WU could not find consistent ways to exploit their 3 smalls vs. 3 bigs, and Whitworth did...expect a big battle Saturday for the AQ bid to the NCAA's...think Whitworth is now a strong POOL C candidate, but they probably should be thinking win the AQ and don't worry about a committee deciding your fate...

As for my Bearcats, a solid performance this season.  13-3 in the NWC is very admirable.  Johnny O, Luchterhand, Garrelts, Miller, and JBaran all will be missed next season, but expect the backcourt of Erickson (who looked very good tonight against Williams) Stuvland, and Fife to help WU be back in the thick of things next season...

I see a 100-98, or 102-97 game tonight, and I'm going with the Loggers, simply because they are at home...Whitworth will not go quietly, very good basketball team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2006, 01:11:20 PM
Solid game..solid win for WW.  I do think the better team won and I am glad to see WU show up with a strong effort.  I thought it would be higher scoring but both teams played strong defense all 40 minutes, and that rarely happens.  I think CJ helped make my case about first team though....1-9 from 3 pt...he was the only WU not on his top game.  JO was incredible and goes out with head high...class act.

Good job to Coach Hayford and his staff for having WW ready and to beat a good team 3 times in one season...and 6 times in a row.  WU got 8 more shots but WW had only 9 TO's.  Bucs played good D and protected the basketball, a true recipe for success.

Tucker just owned WU this year and Peche delivered, Young made big shots, BWilliams played well 7-1 ratio(but that miss at 3.7 was unclutch), Hasenfus can't foul out Sat.  WW bench will need to do better if they are to beat UPS, fortunately Jones plays best in an uptempo game.

See ya there Sat



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 24, 2006, 02:33:04 PM
Much congratulations and respect for willamette this year.  Nobody expected them to go this far...they really overachieved and exceeded expectations.

As for WW, no chance in Tacoma.  And based on UPS's past 2 performances, I see them sailing to an AQ bid (--I like that)...I say Loggers by 17.  97-80...WW will run with 'em too.   UPS is fresh and at home and playing their best ball of the season.  Whitworth has a long trip to make and a war to fight on someone else's turf on beat up legs.  Bring on Pecht!!!!  In the biggest games the biggest players step up, and I wanna see who leads their team to victory. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 24, 2006, 03:17:20 PM
BH - I am not sure that Whitworth's legs will be all that affected.  The fact that our teams normally play two nights in a row means that Whitworth has an extra day to rest.  In the IIAC BV played a tough home game against Luther, then went to #1 Wartburg and beat them after Wartburg had the first round off.  Sometimes getting that game in first helps you.

Adam Morrison sighting at the Fieldhouse last night.  It was funny watching the kids surround him after the game for autographs.  He's actually been out to a couple games a year each of the last three seasons to support B. Williams, but this is the first year he is THE Adam Morrison.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2006, 06:43:36 PM
Actually I agree with pineconefan -- Whitworth's legs shouldn't be affected since the game against WU wasn't that fast paced.  Also, it's not a huge road trip, since Hayford flies his team -- what is that, an hour flight?

Not sure what happened to CJ last night, but that was not representative of his play.  Give it up already -- the coaches vote on those players for All Conference and really -- they don't get money or medals for it -- just bragging rights.  There are a lot of really good players in this conference that didn't even get Honorable Mention.  That happens every year and they all get over it.

I think Whitworth will beat UPS.   Neither team last night played as well as I've seen them play this year.  It's amazing to me that Whitworth only won by 3 for as poorly as Willamette was shooting, it should have been a much bigger score difference.  But, then again, Willamette plays good defense -- seems to me that UPS's strength is offense, though, so it will be close, but Hayford's bunch will prevail.  They're ready and they play the same kind of rough, traveling ball that UPS does, so they'll fit right in.

Nice touch by Whitworth to reserve seats for Willamette fans.  Bad form by some of the Whitworth parents to ignore it.  True that they weren't needed, but they were seated way before that was apparent.

And what's with the fact that Gordie got more cheers, than Jim in his own house when they introduced the coaches.  Your fans should be ashamed.  Look what he's done with that program.

So, it's a less than a perfect year with Willamette out, but it could be better if Whitworth wins the AQ & UPS has the championship.    Go Bucs!

P.S.  Kind of like those NFL shirts that say "Anybody but Dallas!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 11:07:53 PM
UPS 49
Whitworth 29
18:00 2nd
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 11:39:46 PM
Whitworth is back in it.

UPS 73
Whitworth 66
5:17 2nd
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 11:58:36 PM
UPS has survived the comeback attempt.

UPS 94
Whitworth 86
Final
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 26, 2006, 12:04:22 AM
congrats to a great group of sr. who go out with a home win and a third consecutive NWC crown; you have done yourself and your school proud!  bring on the NCAA's.... ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2006, 04:46:20 AM
My congrats to UPS for knocking down their 3's...15-30 and 11 more free throws.  Whitworth tried to climb that mountain but it was just to high.  Not complaining just saying UPS played the game they had to play to win and they did.  Curtis and his big emotion were huge.  I think He showed he was the best player on the court AT UPS.

Home advantage was huge and WW knew it going in and fought back to get it to 4.  I really thought if they had pulled even...the crowd might have been too stunned to bring em back...needless to say UPS guards didn't need a crowd and pushed the lead back over 10 with clutch makes from deep.

Both coaches used all they had and all their timeouts with 3 min to go and after that the frenzy that is UPS was the difference.  Congrats to UPS and EB..hats off to Curtis. 

WW should be proud of the way they played.  I am proud of the effort and although not their best, it was what happens against UPS.  Who really sets an offense against them in Tacoma anyway? 

WW will not get a pool C most likely and that is a shame, not just for their players and coaches or fans, but for the NWC family.  I wish a miracle is announced because WW did show themselves to be a team with skill and heart.

Good Luck UPS and God Bless the pool C.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 05:29:07 AM
NWChoops 1903:

"Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court"

OK...Im markin it...

And ups punked you'all so much i thought ashton kutcher was gonna pop up on the court....

CHASE CURTISS goes for 28-14 and 9  in the biggest game of the year...28-14-and 9

28_14 and 9

28-14 and 9

28-14 and 9

28 points, 14 rebounds and 9 assists

Pecht...take your POTY and sit at home next week while chase and ups play  for another ncaa title....

its a sham... we all  know it is....

curtiss got 5 first place nwc votes....how does he finish 2nd for poty????

that means somebody...aka skip, harshman, hayford. doty screwed him....

28-14 and 9 in the biggest game of the year...

28-14 and 9 in the biggest game of the year...

I know its only one game....The Biggest game ofg the year....


Where was Pecht...the POTY????? 14 and 7?  Comeon????

28-14 and 9 in the biggest game of the year?????

Chase gets screwed for POTY... again...but it dont matter...hes playin next weekend...

HES A WINNER....WISH FOR ONCE THE COACHES WOULD VOTE FOR A WINNER FOR POTY instead of holding grudges...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 05:59:19 AM
its a shame and an embarrassement to the nwc that pecht won nwc poty....

ill repeat...

its a shame and an embarrassement to the nwc that pecht won nwc poty....

the best player on the team is brian williams...and against ups... he is a turnover machine...both games

john young is terrified of pressure...and we saw that all 6 game hes played against ups..cant catch the ball and scared when he does...

james jones looked like kobe again tonight...is that only against ups????

antoine williams came up big...only a frosh...have fun the next 3 years nwc....

tucker looked good...

thanx for signin up to post ww bandwagon...see you next year...

bball addcit..you still ridin shotgun???

nwc...i got your baby seat in the back....my child locks are still on though

gotta go recycle my baby powder bottle 'cause we just spanked ww's @$$ again...

28...14...and 9...when's the last time we've seen that???

28...14...and 9...when's the last time we've seen that???

Rule #76...No excuses..play like a champion...

The biggest and best players show up when everything is on the line...Curtiss was there...Where was Pecht????

28-14 and 9...

P.S...Was Depew the only player in the "04 class to play pro????  Didn't think so...Just askin...

44 and 4 in 3 years....


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2006, 10:20:46 AM
Blackhawks get over yourself.  Whitworth played poorly and your Loggers only beat them by 8.  Your crowd got quiet quite a few times because they were afraid Whitworth was going to beat them.  Curtiss is a whiner!  McVey has some class and so does your freshman, Antwon.

Whitworth was full of mistakes, missed shots & turnovers, and the Loggers outplayed them -- but only won by 8 -- they should've killed them.   And yes,  Chase Curtiss played well -- made up for some of the others -- my point about you having hotshots and not team players confirmed.

nwhoops:  Not sure why you think Whitworth won't get a Pool C bid.  They beat WU 3 times -- and Willamette has previously been ranked pretty strong regionally.  They won once &  lost by 1 and by 8 to UPS -- the world's greatest team (according to Blackhawks) --  so that puts them -- WAAAAAY up there.  They've been in the top 3 spots of the NWC for 5 out of the past 6 years & that was when most teams in the conference were performing better.   NWC's top 3 all have .800+ seasons -- does any other conference have that?  Anyway, one can always hope.

See you next year Blackhawks -- I believe you'll get to experience what's known as a "building" year for your team.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 26, 2006, 11:40:13 AM
oh, I'm not so sure on the rebuilding year in 06-07 bbaddict....young talent on that team and I'm sure EB and JL have some recruiting tricks planned...the rest of the NWC can always hope I suppose.

congrats to the Loggers and count me among those who hopes the 'rats get in to the NCAA's; the more from the NWC the better.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 12:02:52 PM
Bball Addict (Feb. 12)

"However, if they do represent the NWC in the regionals -- I'd have to say "Go Loggers!"  

Let's hear it!

Himjay (Feb. 13)

"I think everyone on this board would agree that Curtiss is a streaky shooter.  Im not trying to put the guy down, its just the truth."


28 points 14 rebounds, 9 assists...little more than just a streaky shooter....you think?

NWC Bball Fan (Feb 13)

"However, I do think they will win the league and then lose to Whitworth by 10 + and your  beloved home court in the conference championship.  I bet you that the UPS coaching staff and players are very scared of Whiworth."

Yes...UPS was terrified....  

NWC Bbbal Fan

"Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court"

I know I already got you on this one...but its just so easy!  I love the "MARK MY WORDS"

NWC Bball fan (Feb 17)

"Shame that the best team in conference isn't playing Friday night."

Would that be the team that won the conference championship or the one that got the AQ bid?

Blackhawks#4 (Feb 18)

But i guarantee you i'll be the one on the board talkin' in a week.   I don't care how hot ww is.

Oh...that wise man was me

Blackhawks#4 (Feb 18)

Bandwagon boys... i don't wanna hear your guarantees or your "mark my word"...because i will, and you won't respond next saturady night, when i'm here talkin about the loggers and the tourney.

This is fun...

NWChoops1903 (Feb 18)

" No one wants to face Pirates right now."  

Bridgeland called your boys out in the newspaper!!!!  Yesterday he said "we were pulling for whitworth to beat willamete...we want another shot at whitworth"

Blackhawks#4 (Feb 18)

"Bball Addict:  It is over.  WW or WU will not beat UPS in Tacoma.  It's over."

Oops...Me again.

Blackhawks4 (Feb 21)

I want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court.   The one time i saw pecht he wasn't very impressive.  Obviously his numbers were good, but i want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court playing for the conference championship

Darnit! I keep doin that.

Blackhawks4 (Feb 24)

"In the biggest games the biggest players step up, and I wanna see who leads their team to victory."  

Would anybody disagree?  Curtiss doubled Pecht's stats, 28-14 and 9 in the AQ game

Bballaddict (Feb 26)

"Whitworth played poorly and your Loggers only beat them by 8."

Yeah...Only 8, who do you guys play next week?

Bballaddict (Feb 26)

And yes,  Chase Curtiss played well -- made up for some of the others -- my point about you having hotshots and not team players confirmed.

What????????Nobody plays harder or bigger or with more emotion than him.   Too bad your pretty boys are too afraid to scrap and hit the floor like Curtiss..."Hotshsot"...you're ridiculous

Bball addict (Feb 16)

See you next year Blackhawks -- I believe you'll get to experience what's known as a "building" year for your team.

44 and 4 in 3 years...Are we not seeing a trend??????  We all know you read this post, but pretend you didn't and don't respond.  Yes, ill see you next year as UPS waives another NWC banner in 07!!!!!  Wait a minute, "darn you blackhawks, you're so conceited."  

Is it too early to make my '07 prediction??????? I can't help it, I'm a cocksman.

Thank you bearcatsfan (i guess pinecove too, you're a vet) for a good year and good debating / posting...hope ill hear from you as loggers go dancin'

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2006, 01:00:20 PM
Yes -- GO LOGGERS -- Go NWC.  I'm not so sure that Whitworth played their last game.  Guess we'll know tonight.  As far as Bridgeland rooting for Whitworth over Willamette, why was he sitting with the AD from Willamette in the Willamette cheering section?

Blackhawks -- I guess you can't remember as far back as 2003 -- yeah, that was when UPS didn't ever do better than 6th -- for, oh, several years!!  Willamette & Whitworth have been at the top for years struggling with teams like Lewis & Clark & Linfield.  You may think you have the only team in the NWC -- they're just the latest flash in the pan -- but when your top dogs graduate, oh yeah, that's THIS year -- you'll be singing new tunes!!

I'll have to decline the shotgun seat, however, you talk too much & too loud and your karma is much too low for me.  I'll watch the PLU women beat someone -- maybe UPS!!  It's a sorry note that all of your fans showed up for the sure thing game against Whitworth & didn't go support the  women's team playing across town.

On another note -- what moron schedules the men's & women's playoff games on the same nights?  How stupid is that?

OK -- I'm done, but I'm not gone!!  It'll be a pleasure to see  you in 07 -- Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 26, 2006, 01:16:43 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2006, 01:00:20 PM
-- they're just the latest flash in the pan --

44-4?!  You've got to be kidding me!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 26, 2006, 02:35:16 PM
Blackhawk, You are a joke.  You have absolutely no class and one of the worst, rub it in your face, and I am better than you, attitudes that anyone on this board has ever seen.  You are a complete joke and think way to much of yourself.  You are a disgrace to basketball fans and what this board is all about.  UPS played a great game.  Whitworth played decent, but not good and lost by 8.  They had a lot of shot go in and out in the first half, while Chase Curtis BANKED in a 3 from the top of the key and McVey had a free throw bounce higher than the shot clock and go down.  Curtis was amazing last night.  Although he is classless, his emotion and drive carried the Loggers.  Congratulations to the Loggers.  But not to you, you joke!  Curtis had a great night on center stage and proved he is a first team all-conference player.  If a horrible game for Pecht is 14-7, then I guess he is horrible, just like you say.  One game does not count of POY.  Again you and your comments are a joke!!!  People like you are why everyone in the conference can't stand UPS.  However, not you, but UPS....  Good luck in the tournament, you deserve to be there.  Whitworth also deserves to be there... remember up 30 with 4:00 when the bench cleared in Spokane.  Remember the one point game at UPS earlier this year.  Remember the huge comback from a 22 point deficit last night?  Whitworth is banking on a miracle pool C bid, and I hope they get it.  Since you are a joke, I am sure you don't want anyone else from the NWC to do well.  That is the type of classless person you are! MG.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 26, 2006, 03:09:09 PM
NWC bball fan:

Lets get serious.  Are you trying to tell me that you guys wouldnt have been all over Bhawks if Whitworth had won?  Could you really have resisted pulling out some of his quotes from the past few weeks?  I doubt it.

As for Curtiss, I think "classless" is being pretty harsh.  As a fan of an opposing team you may not enjoy his antics or style of play, but you would LOVE the guy if he were on your squad.  You cant deny that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2006, 03:39:20 PM
Props to UPS.  Simply put, the Loggers did what they wanted to do better than the Pirates did.  they were 15 of 30 from three point range.  Tough to beat that.

I have to agree with Bridgeland's quote in the Tacoma paper from Sunday - Homecourt meant everything in this tournament and between these teams.  UPS plays much more comfortably in that building, as most teams do at home.

I also agree with Hayford's quote in today's paper - Curtiss showed that he was an all-american level player last night.

The Pirates showed heart to fight back from 22 down to within five, but it was too much to overcome. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 26, 2006, 04:14:18 PM
Loggers Hoops,
  I can agree with your points.  I just have a hard time with Blackhawks.  He is just so pompus.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 04:14:47 PM
NWC Bball Fan:

"Curtis was amazing last night.  Although he is classless, his emotion and drive carried the Loggers."

You don't know the kid....To say this is completely ignorant (just like me i guess). Your comments disgust me.  Give the kid his props.  Classless?????  He's the opitome of class. Much like we hated Bierlink.  Hated Bierlink.  He holds, cheats, scraps, he's fiery and gets in your face...But NEVER, NEVER would I say the guy has no class.   He was a winner and a very good player.  You may not like him...but you have to recognize that. Nobody plays harder or with more emotion than Curtiss.  Nobody's on the floor more than Curtiss.  Nobody leads more than him.  As a basketball fan...you have to appreciate that from your star player.

"If a horrible game for Pecht is 14-7, then I guess he is horrible, just like you say."

Lets get something straight.  I thought we already decided you can't make things up and say I said them.
I think Pecht is a very good player...but he's not your POTY...The POTY had his 2 biggest games of the year on the center stage when all the lights were on.  Coincidence?  I think not


"People like you are why everyone in the conference can't stand UPS."

I understand why people don't like UPS...just like they don't like the yankees, lakers and other winners (yes, i realize it's a stretch)

Finally I don't care to defend myself, especially to you, but I challenged you and bballadict (who actually understands that this is a forum and when you lose you should get razzed) to find one personal attack in all 90 posts.  The only one who has gotten personal is you. I said nothing but congrats to bearcatsfan...but you, who's first post came personally at me, you are absolutely right... I'm gonna let you hear about it.  You're taking this board way to seriously.

BBall Addict...Maybe Bridgeland was sitting with the majesky  because he hired Bridgeland and gave him his first head coaching job at uc santa cruz???? Maybe? And I can at least respect Bball addict becase he understands that this is a board and when you losee, you should get heckled.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 26, 2006, 04:48:44 PM
so now that UPS is the conference champions can the NWC strip pecht of the POTY and give it to the man with 1 assist shy of a TRIPLE DOUBLE?! this one goes out to those that said ups hasnt yet won the conference so why should curtiss get it. well, i guess you saw why he should have got it and they are the conference champs and he was the best player on the team. maybe there should be a POTY recount!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2006, 09:35:08 PM
Blackhawks4

Are you quoting me as saying this?  Check your facts

NWChoops 1903:
"Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court"
OK...Im markin it...

Ahhh..cause I didn't.

It doesn't matter to me anyway since I can't stand your sandbox attitude.  I think a good look in the mirror is in order about taking this too seriously, plus your posts have as much insight and accuracy as a one eyed Log.  Are there any UPS fans that have anything intelligent to say?  Please loggers, don't let this guy be your voice.

I like EB's take cause it is accurate...Home court advantage was the difference and if you go to my original post, I called UPS no 3's no way...guess what, they made there 3's and the won.  Without clutch baskets from downtown and one good bank they don't win...but they did and they deserve the W.

Hats off to Curtis and his monster game, but over the whole season he was not POTY.  One game does not, a POTY make.
And where did you hear he had 5 first place votes anyway? Is that published somewhere?


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2006, 11:48:15 PM
Blackhawks - You bet, Curtiss had a huge game on Saturday.  But you want to be carefull about the Biggest Players in Biggest Games rhetoric.  The games only get bigger from here.  Will Curtiss be able to follow through with equally big performances?

It kind of brings to mind your final game.  Home court section semifinal against one of the NCAA tournament favorites.  Hard to say there is a bigger stage.  How'd it go for you again - 3/14 from the field, 1/9 from three, 7 total points, five turnovers.  And you guys were run off the floor.  Not exactly a Player of the Year performance by any definition.  Either that or it really wasn't that big of a game.

Must've been hard watching two other teams play for the right to go to the final four on your own court in such a dead environment.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2006, 11:51:38 PM
No Pirates in the tournament this year.  Not a big surprise, and can't really be considered a disappointment.  Yes, Whitworth finished strong, but letting games get away at GFU, Oxy, and PLU really cost the team. 

But I like what the Pirates are bringing back next year.  And contrary to what some on this board report, there are coaches in the league other than EB who work hard on recruiting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 27, 2006, 12:35:27 AM
Yikes, pinecone, talk about getting too personal.  That post seems out of character for you . . .
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 02:09:09 AM
Yeah Spooh - that post was probably a shame and an embarrassement.  But BH really likes to throw shots around at other players, coaches, the league - pretty much everyone not in a UPS uniform.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on February 27, 2006, 05:36:01 AM
Congrats to UPS, they came up big when it mattered most. Kind of a shame Whitworth didn't get a bid.  I think they deserved one. Just goes to show that there isn't too much respect for the NWC at this point in time. Aside from UPS, Whitworth, and WU (I guess GFU is a decent team) the conference was very poor. It's just too bad they couldn't sqeeze at least 2 in there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 27, 2006, 09:04:08 AM
BYE for the Loggers, with a California team coming to Tacoma for the third year in a row.....at least we can try and beat on someone besides PP this time!   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2006, 10:55:02 AM
You're right Himjay, the NWC doesn't get much respect.  For that reason, I say GO LOGGERS -- take it all the way!  Our conference needs a big win in basketball like Linfield does for Football.  Then maybe we'll get some respect.  The NWC women's teams got two in the tourney, so the men should be there too!! 

So Blackhawks -- you got your wish -- I'm rooting for the Loggers -- at least for now.  But don't discount WU & Whitworth for next year -- you're losing Curtiss & McVey!!  And Pineconefan is right -- the other coaches are heavily recruiting and they don't just look for freshmen!
Title: Bragging Rights
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 27, 2006, 11:23:16 AM
1. If you're team wins the NWC for 3 years in a row, goes 44-4 over that time span, and you  happen to have been a part of that success, and friends with the current team continuing that success, you have every right to come on this board on let loose about your boys...regardless of the fact BHawks has his own irritating style, the school he was a player at, and is a fan of now, is running away with NWC titles and NCAA berths, while the rest of us are at home every March...you don't have many bullets in your gun when his team keeps winning, and yours keeps losing, yet you still try and attack the guy.

2. Curtiss has dominated WU and Whitworth in two straight championship games on back to back weekends in late February.  He was/should have been the POY. Period.

3. The fact that BHawks true identity is a known fact on this board should not have been exploited the way Pinecone used it in his post.  I don't know about the rest of you, but since I was never a POY of anything other than the occasional Madden season, I don't have the right to call out someone who was, just because their posts got under my skin (which, make no mistake, BHawks can do).

4. Whitworth lost their chance to get that Pool C bid when they dropped the game to OXY in early January. If PC is right, and Oxy was the last team in, that loss by the Pirates in essence kept them out of the dance.

5. BHawks, the Loggers certainly delivered in the NWC postseason, but you cannot argue that you guys need to carry that on in the NCAA's...especially considering you get another home game, the likely #1 West seed, etc...continually pounding the SCIAC, just to get dumped on by the WIAC will not due for a 3rd straight year.

6. Willamette fans keep the faith...while Whitworth owned us this year (3 losses to them is disgusting), Coach James and Co. welcome back a dyamic backcourt (minus Olinger, but Fife is very capable, Erickson is a talented PG, and Stuvland was 1st team NWC) and hopefully, a talented supporting cast that is HUNGRY to do something in late February...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2006, 01:57:44 PM
I agree with Bearcatsfan even though I really didn't know who Blackhawks was -- until now!  It's a pretty mean & low thing to attack someone personally on the board.  And, anyone who's made it to the NCAA playoffs doesn't have a thing to be ashamed of.  Especially in the NWC where the top three teams are always neck in neck.

It does explain your annoying ways Blackhawks-- thought you were older.  Now I'll be more forgiving about the outrageous remarks and the razzing -- you're allowed to be obnoxious when you're young.  And you're allowed a certain amount of arrogance when you're really good.  Since you're both -- I'll cut you some slack.

Yes, WU's coaches are already looking to next year -- I saw Coach James the day after the Whitworth loss & he was already talking about his new recruits for next year.   And I've seen some of the freshmen play -- not often - because they were behind some pretty good players, but they know what to do.  And how come no one ever mentions Ian Mansfield?  He's a really great shot blocker/rebounder.  He shared playing time with Garrelts, Luchterhand & Barran who are all seniors, but we'll be seeing more of him, I'm sure.

All of you need to give it up on the POY thing.  Lance Pecht is a fine player who deserves the award.  There are others who are deserving as well, but he won it!!  Leave him alone.  He did have a less than perfect game on Saturday night, but everyone does & we know that basketball is a TEAM sport -- it shouldn't matter if one guy has a bad shooting night.  I don't agree with Bearcatsfan that "Curtiss dominated WU & Whitworth in two straight games . . ." because the WU game was a regular season game & he didn't dominate Whitworth -- they just won.  By 8!  8 points is NOT dominating.

And UPS was pretty hot on their shooting that night -- especially 3's.  I think they had things go in that even they didn't expect.  And Whitworth wasn't good on defense -- they gave  UPS second & third and sometimes fourth chances by not taking care of the boards.  And they gave them even more by passing the ball to them and other turnovers.  Whitworth was their own worst enemy that night.

I'm really glad that UPS gets homecourt advantage in the playoffs.  Whitworth got screwed on that in 2003!  I just wish that the NCAA would give the West some respect.  I guess the decision makers are all from midWest or East coast schools?  Don't know why it happens that way.





Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 02:50:54 PM
Maybe the post was over the line.  Was the tone really different than BH uses all the time?  Questioning other players' courage, the integrity of NWC officials...

Actually I came across that information unintentially.  Was looking to see how Curtiss did in post season games the last two years to see if his numbers were close to what he did Saturday, and saw that box score.  (Answer - not really).

That post was meant as an object lesson.  BH was a heck of a player and a clutch player.  Just be careful about making  judgements on an entire season based on one game.  POY was well deserved that year, but by using his own arguement about big games, it works against him.
Title: Questions
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 27, 2006, 04:01:38 PM
Pinecone:  I think its safe to say we can all move on...you're argument was valid, just the execution of it a bit extreme...

question for you...with the loss of Tucker/Pecht, where does whitworth go next year? Any of the guys on the bench supposed to be good, or do you think hayford will go over the top of them with a trans/juco guy?  Young and Williams and the Fus back next year, they should be in the top 3...but that's a tough duo to replace...

Also, I don't think we can use the standard "West Coast Bias" we all love to throw out here...afterall, the SCIAC got two teams in...you'd a made a lot of money placing that bet at the beginning of the season...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 04:18:39 PM
Bearcats, you are right - I don't get the sense that Whitworth feels robbed by being left out.  There is no press release on their website this year like there was last year with the women.  The Pirates blew too many early opportunities, including the game at Oxy.  Of the losses at GFU, Oxy, Pomona, UPS and PLU, they needed at least two of those.  As they say, nobody to blame but yourself. . .

Yes, it will be interesting to see how they replace Pecht/Tucker.  All three of the top three teams have key contributors to replace.  I could see Jurich, who showed real spark this year, moving into one of those spots.  Another one is James Jones, but with him we lose that size advantage that worked for us this year.  I don't know anything about who might be coming in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2006, 04:44:13 PM
Pinecone...don't get all sentimental on me...If i couldn't handle or didn't expect any shots back I wouldn't be here.

The biggest players shine in the biggest games....Definitely.  And in '04...the biggest players shined in the biggest game.   My argument didn't work against me.  UWSP not only won 2 straight national titles, but put 6'5" beasts on the court and started not one but two 1st team all americans.  The biggest players shined.... Done....

Loggers at home against a SCIAC team in the second round???????  Doesn't get any sweeter.  My prediction:  Loggers will walk into the sweet 16 again, then it's on.  When you start travelin' and get into those Wisconsin schools you find out what you got.  I gotta say this is the best draw UPS has had in 3 years.  Glad to see they weren't on the top half of the bracket--but geography saved 'em i guess)

UPS is peaking at the right time too.  Looks like we'll get to see about the SCIAC now!!!!!!!!  Didn;t we already have dave colling say occidentel was better than ups?  Let's do it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 08:27:34 PM
BH - I agree, its a good draw for the Loggers.  Most here do hope UPS does well in the tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2006, 11:52:28 PM
So how many more years does Bridgleand and the Loggers have to win the NWC title before somebody recognizes that they aren't just the...oh, how did you put it..."latest flash in the pan?"  If they win it again next year, in a "rebuilding year," can we agree to that?  Because let me tell you a little secret...There's something special going on up here in Tacoma, and I will be shocked if UPS doesn't win the title every year Bridgeland and crew are at UPS.  Yes...please...put the bullseye on their chest....should I give it a "mark my words?"

Thanks for the slack Addict, I have a really tough time not getting pushed around by you guys. 

If you're a loggerfan, how great was the first minute of the whitworth game.   Curtiss takes the tip from somebody, hoists a three, loggers get 3 "o" boards, arms are gettin' smacked, people are gettin' pushed, Hasenfos loses the ball and grabs his face...Oh god, LOL...UPS dictated that game right away

Anybody who's interested...I found a great rate out to Wisconsin...You gotta think Lawrence will be hosting for the west in the field of 16.  Sure...it's a non-refundable ticket, but come'on we're playin the SCIAC here!  (that outta do it)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2006, 02:26:56 AM
Blackhawks:  I guess we're not convinced that UPS is the basketball dynasty that you crow about since nobody heard about UPS before 2003-04 -- you were at the bottom of the conference -- with your football team who also never won.   When people thought of UPS they thought of swimming & soccer I think, but certainly not men's basketball.  The point is that UPS doesn't have the only good coach in the conference -- there are several. 

And about cutting you slack, maybe you're not just young, you're bratty!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 28, 2006, 09:10:29 AM
"I guess we're not convinced that UPS is the basketball dynasty that you crow about since nobody heard about UPS before 2003-04 -- you were at the bottom of the conference" - bbaddict

bbaddict:  while historically this may be accurate statement with regards to the NWC, it is important to remember that the NWC has been a DIII conference for only seven seasons now - three of which have resulted in conference champtionships for the Loggers.  It seems appropriate to me to compare apples to apples, and in the era of the non-scholarship Div. III athletes in the NWC, Puget Sound basketball seems to be doing more than holding its own.  Not sure how many titles you have to win, consecutive or not, to get the mythical "dynasty" lable, but three out of seven and three straight seems like a pretty positive first step.

Institutions have had to adapt to the new alignement of the conference and some have done it better than others.  PLU has struggled with a few exceptions for the most part to maintain a position of athletic excellence in the NWC, while Whitworth and Linfield have not.

All I know is the Loggers are still chasing those four straight titles by Whitman to end the 1920's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2006, 10:19:57 AM
Gee Loggerville == thanks for the history lesson.  Doesn't change the comment about Bhawks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 28, 2006, 11:13:58 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 28, 2006, 10:19:57 AM
Doesn't change the comment about Bhawks.

might not change your perceived bratty-factor, but it does make him correct in asserting the Loggers near-dynasty status.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2006, 11:20:28 AM
Loggerville -- who are you?--Bhawks big brother?  I think he's demonstrated that he can take care of himself on this board.   You Loggers go enjoy yourselves in the playoffs -- try not to get punched by someone on the SCIA board - I'll even root for your team -- all the way to the top this year.  See you next year without McVey & Curtiss -- Go Bearcats!
Title: NCAA's
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 28, 2006, 01:00:07 PM
BHawks, not many takers on the SCIAC board I see, despite your usual finesse...

For any SCIACers pacing our board,

If Chapman can't beat Fox or Pacific, why would they have a prayer in Tacoma? Oxy does have a quality one point win over the Pirates...but the Tigers have been so bad lately, what chance would they have against BHawks crew?


Dynasty talk is not premature...as much as it pains me to say it, if you win 3 in a row in this league, you've done something special. To say UPS is not worthy of dynasty chatter, simply because they weren't good before is like saying the Patriots were not a dynasty type club, because they were awful the decade before...or the Lakers 3 in a row wasn't amazing, simply because they hadn't won a title of anykind in 12 years...

However, expecting EB to pull it out every year....well, now that this core group is gone (Bhawks, Curtiss, McVey, Cross, Shelton), let's see how the loggers fare...AWilliams is a very good player, but you'd be hard pressed to say the others are "special"...Well, BHawks isn't going to be hard pressed, but rationale observers will be...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 28, 2006, 01:51:46 PM
Well, I'd imagine most will be wrapping up their NWC posts...Not much left to talk about here...

Bearcats...been a pleasure...you should think about checkin' out that SCIAC board and reppin' those Loggers (huh? No...ahh, worth a shot).  They get creative over there.  Besides, I getta get off this board before someone comes after my momma.   

UPS - dynasty??  Well, Bridgeland took over a dwindling program 5 years ago and has 3 straight nwc championships.  Not bad.  Not only do loggers return antoine williams (next years nwc poty-well actually probably not), but watch out for jason foster-freshmen this year, ryan delong, as well as a host of soon to be sophmores.  And gee...I wonder which university will bring in the best recruiting class?

Haven't heard from NWCBballfan...But with him and addict on the loose, I'm lockin' my doors at night that's for sure.

Quotedespite your usual finesse...
...Ahh, sarcasm...i'm telling ya' bearcatsfan...sciac board.  The art of posting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 28, 2006, 02:15:38 PM
Alright guys,
  This will be my last post of the year.  BH, you are obviously not my favorite person, but I can appreciate sticking up for your old team.  You have a strong knowledge of the game, it is just so one-sided so much of the time.  However, I hope the Loggers go deep into the tournament and earn some respect for the NWC.  Whitworth really feels that it took the Loggers best shot and still only lost by 8.  They shot amazingly and I hope that continues through the playoffs.  There are a lot of teams in the tournament that would not have finished in the top 3-maybe 4 of the NWC.  Oxy can be dangerous.  They beat #5 Amhearst after the refs gave them the game against Whitworth.

Look for the Pirates to be very good next year.  I hear that they have a good recruiting class coming in and have 3 good starters coming back.  Also, they have James Jones who torched UPS for 31, 19, and 20 in three games.  Along with Whitworth, who else does anyone see having a strong year.  Yes I know UPS will be good, their system will not let them be bad.  It has been fun, and I am sorry if I offended anyone.  Have a great off-season.......and I can't believe I am saying this but... Go Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2006, 02:51:41 AM
No question that EB has a good thing going on...and I think 3peat is very impressive...will he be at UPS much longer though?  He has to be interesting to some D2 programs.  Any coaching changes in NWC this off season?  Rumors?  Thoughts?

I hope he and Hayford stay around as long as Gordy has..the NWC will be a solid conference with 2 young, skilled coaches running solid programs...no offense to any of the other coaches..just that these 2 have the last 4 titles. 

Hope the Loggers do well....getting the first round bye showed some respect to them..to bad WW didn't find a spot.  Some close losses doomed the pool C bid and a poor loss to PLU cost them the homecourt game they needed to beat UPS.  I personally, think WW did show class in not complaining or whining or even mentioning the pool C selection process.

Next season should be another good one but before that...good luck again to UPS..I am pretty sure I will go see the game and silently hope they win.  If they go 15-30 from 3 point land and win by 7 or less...I will know the Pirates doubly deserve to be in Spokane this week.  Go Bucs.
Title: Re: NCAA's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2006, 04:10:12 AM
Quote from: bearcatsfan3 on February 28, 2006, 01:00:07 PMIf Chapman can't beat Fox or Pacific, why would they have a prayer in Tacoma?

Chapman's not in the tournament.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2006, 02:51:41 AMHope the Loggers do well....getting the first round bye showed some respect to them

Not really. Puget Sound, like the two SCIAC schools, is a geographic orphan in terms of the D3 tournament field. Putting the three of them together instead of putting them into a more conventional four-team regional field means that the NCAA saves some plane fares, and cutting costs is what this tournament is really all about in their eyes. I'm sure that Puget Sound graded out very well in terms of seeding, but their bye is all about money rather than respect.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2006, 11:52:28 PM.You gotta think Lawrence will be hosting for the west in the field of 16.

You do? That's news to us here in the midwest. Nobody in these parts is taking anything for granted as far as the Midwest/West sectional is concerned, Lawrence fans included.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 01, 2006, 10:22:16 AM
Sorry, GS, I meant Claremont...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 01, 2006, 08:45:26 PM
For those Logger fans (and NWC fans, too) that are interested, we will be broadcasting the Occidental/Claremont game on Thursday at 7.00 pt.  You can get it at www.oxybroadcast.com.  Hope you'll listen and hope to see you in Tacoma on Saturday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 12:05:46 AM
Hello from the SCIAC Board,

Not on here to make any type of predictions.  At this point, I am only concerned about CMS tomorrow night.  Yes, Oxy has not been playing its best basketball of the season, but I hope we make it up to Tacoma.

It will be nice for our kids to take a trip to the Pac NW.  Good luck to everyone, and be sure to follow Tigersports on his broadcast tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: walzy31 on March 03, 2006, 04:41:04 PM
Thanks to the NWC

MCLA (MASCAC) to Duke (ACC)

MCLA beat Fitchburg St. by 4
Fitchburg St. beat Newbury by 4
Newbury beat Roger Williams by 20
Roger Williams beat Curry by 5
Curry beat Trinity by 5
Trinity beat Amherst by 3
Amherst beat Pomona-Pitzer by 19
Pomona-Pitzer beat Whitworth by 4
Whitworth beat Puget Sound by 24
Puget Sound beat UC Riverside by 4
UC Riverside beat Pacific by 8
Pacific beat Texas A&M by 7
Texas A&M beat Texas by 3
Texas beat West Virginia by 1
West Virginia beat Georgetown by 13
Georgetown beat Duke by 3

Duke is currently #1 (until Monday)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 04, 2006, 02:01:57 AM
We will have the Oxy/UPS game tonight at 7 at www.oxybroadcast.com.  Please tune it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TigerFan_1973 on March 04, 2006, 10:27:17 PM
Quote from: tigersports on March 04, 2006, 02:01:57 AM
We will have the Oxy/UPS game tonight at 7 at www.oxybroadcast.com.  Please tune it.

Thank you.

I'm a Wittenberg fan.  This is the last game I need to fill out my bracket.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 11:40:42 PM
Gee, who's this McVey guy?  He's not bad ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on March 05, 2006, 06:04:23 AM
Quote from: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 11:40:42 PM
Gee, who's this McVey guy?  He's not bad ;D
That guy... he killed us.  Offensive boards left and right.

Great game Tigers!

Go Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2006, 12:08:36 PM
nice win loggers..and you didn't have to go 15-30 from 3ville.  Amazing

nice game big log

gl next week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on March 06, 2006, 01:40:19 AM
Quote from: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 11:40:42 PM
Gee, who's this McVey guy?  He's not bad ;D

That dunk of his was SICK. Put the game out of reach with that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2006, 04:21:06 PM
Loggers - here is a link to information about Illinois Wesleyan that includes potential matchups of all four teams for Friday's 1st round sectional games and useful CCIW team & conference links
http://www.iwuhoops.com/

This site is hosted by IWU's Bob Quillman also know to many on these boards as TitanQ.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2006, 03:35:30 PM
Hey UPS fans!  Anyone coming to the Great Midwest this weekend?  I would love for a UPS fan to pick me up two tickets for your game.  Any takers???  :D  Send me a message or an email please! I've decided to cheer for whatever team gets me tickets! lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 10, 2006, 11:35:04 PM
Hey hey, lookin' at an elite 8 bid now boys....great win tonight, a solid showing by the NWC and a final 8 berth after three years on knocking on the door....bring on Titan Q and the IWU fans!  Great effort by Williams, a real step-up game for the rookie.  Good luck tomorrow fellas!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on March 11, 2006, 02:26:23 AM
has anyone else looked at the CCIW board? People are talking about how they need to respect UPS, and how they are a dangerous and legit team. AM I READING THIS RIGHT? I guess it took UPS not playing the juggernaut that was UWSP to be able to prove what they can do. Wow, I still can't believe this...

Also, it says something about the knowledge and class of the posters on that board as well. They easily could have done what a lot of people do and just overlook UPS because they don't know them and they run a different system. Throw in the win IWU had over us in Cali and I fully excpected 24hrs of IWU fans making final four arrangements. But they're better than that and know this is a much better, experienced and confident UPS team that wants nothing more than to avenge the earlier game.

Should be a great game tomorrow night, hopefully I can figure out a way to get up there...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 11, 2006, 12:19:58 PM
UPS gang...we will be broadcasting the game tonight for NCAASports.com.

Links will be on the live audio page...

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/

edit: fixed link.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 11, 2006, 08:48:32 PM
Loggers up.....very good game.  get on a listen if you can, the guy is doing a good job on a solo broadcast.

UPS 49  IWU 48  at the half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 12, 2006, 01:02:21 AM
Well...

A few thoughts...

You don't win a game when your opponent shoots 75% in the second half and you only lead by 1 at the half.  In fact, chances are you don't win regardless of how you perform or how big your lead is. 

UPS only forced 14 IWU turnovers, must be close to the low for the season.

The Loggers didn't win, but I'll tell you this much...the fans of the CCIW are some of the most knowledgeable and most crazy about their basketball.  UPS's program gained a ton of respect this weekend.  There is no doubt that they can play with just about any team out there...and it's not hard to fathom that they will be back next year even without Curtiss and McVey et al.

It was fun to watch and broadcast their games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2006, 02:23:03 AM
Real good fan support for the Loggers too. I expected maybe 50 to make a trip like that but I'd say there were well over 200 in attendance. Since UPS has 35 freshmen on the team I suspect we in the Midwest will be seeing more of them in tournaments to come. No offense intended Logger fans, it's simply easier and cheaper to fly one team than three.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference Photos
Post by: Ryan Coleman on March 12, 2006, 12:26:28 PM
Hey guys,

The photos from last night's game are up and I have the Friday game ready too.
Saturday: http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=671
Friday: http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=669

--
Ryan
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2006, 12:32:13 PM
I'm sure all the Logger Posters are on a plane right now but they will appreciate it when they get home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2006, 09:08:20 AM
Very entertaining games this past weekend in Appleton.  Obviously I was familiar with UPS since I am a Point fan.  You really surprised some people, especially Augie fans.  I think the majority of the CCIW crowd just assumed it was going to be Augie vs. IWU on Saturday.

You made IWU work for their win on Saturday.  #21 for you guys is a stud and will be missed (senior, right?).  You have some good young guys in #3 (Williams) and I wanted to see more of Robert Krauel too!

I'll have to politely disagree with "The Roop."  There was NO WAY there were 200 UPS fans there.  I went to the LU box office on Friday to pick up tickets to the UPS/Augie game and they told me, between those two schools, nearly 900 tickets were returned.  I would say there were 100, at the very most.  Maybe you were counting my friends and I since we sat with the UPS fans! lol.  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 05:44:56 PM
Since Old School politely disagreed with me, and got "The Roop" in quotes, I won't argue with him. LOL. Perhaps the UPS crowd took up the seats for 200, they were very territorial about their section. I sat there too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PostUPS on March 13, 2006, 10:27:56 PM

As posted in the Midwest section...

I don't have a lot of time in my busy life to read these posts but have been watching it the last few days and decided to register just to post a comment on the seating situation this past weekend.

Due to the size of the gym the seating arrangements were not the best.  But given the amount of room available in the bleachers at the end of the court there was no need for IWU fans to sit in the UPS section.  When many of us arrived an hour before the game Saturday night there was a large group of IWU fans that had already seated themselves right in our section.  Of course we asked to have them moved to the open bleachers under the basket.  We didn't come 2,000 miles through two plane flights each way to be seated between IWU fans.  If the end bleachers had been full then I would understand the argument... but even so we still had many IWU fans in our section while there was ample room for them in the other bleachers.  Some even covered their IWU shirts just to be able to stay and cheer around us.  I guess having a sideline seat was more important than displaying support for your team... much less respecting the other team's fans.  If we had been playing Lawrence in a full gym then I would understand not being able to have the section to ourselves... but those of you who stayed in our section were disrespectful and by 7:00pm the game was more important to us than your temper tantrums with the school officials.

Nonetheless I was very impressed with the IWU turnout on Saturday and (aside from the ones who made a big fuss out of respecting our section) met some wonderful people.  Given the fact that we had to come seven times as far as the IWU fans did I was also proud of our turnout.  I understand the radio station in Bloomington put out the call and many responded by driving up to Appleton.  I think that is great and your team certainly deserves the support.  Most of you are a great example of what makes D3 basketball so wonderful and it was wise of ESPN to pick you up for their story.

I thought both teams played their hearts out and I am proud of our team for the way they played.  UPS was right in the game up to the last few minutes and if anything I feel the West Coast schools deserve more respect then many on here seem to give us credit for.  Puget Sound is just the top entry of some very competitive programs in the NWC and SCIAC.  It could have gone either way in the end and I think any one of the four teams in Appleton would have been strong contenders in Salem.

Best of luck to the Titans in the finals and when the sectionals are back in Tacoma again we will be sure to provide you with your own section - as you would deserve for making such a long trip to support your team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on March 15, 2006, 11:46:26 AM
Good representation of the NWC on the all West Region Team.

1st Team:

Pecht

2nd Team:
Schmick

3rd Team:
Curtiss (3rd?!)
McVey  (3rd?!)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 15, 2006, 02:42:46 PM
Schmick, on 2nd team, All-Region?  Absolute JOKE.

Curtiss and McVey should both be MILES in front of him...

Anyway you argue it (team success...individual stats...postseason CONFERENCE team standings...), this is a fallacy...

Schmick over JOHN OLINGER is a joke, much less over the two guys on the LEAGUE CHAMPS who went to the ELITE EIGHT...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 15, 2006, 06:35:14 PM
I am still trying to figure how Amir from Redlands got 1st team.....5-9 and 9-15 overall.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: skokomish on March 16, 2006, 10:16:06 PM
Sanity at Pacific Lutheran! 

The one thing the my alma mater has been unwilling to do is run off coaches that are dead weight.  For the few of us who have any pride left, this is good news:

http://www.plu.edu/athletics/mbball/2005-06%20releases/031506harshman.htm
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pgcooz on May 01, 2006, 06:04:36 PM
This board has been dead.  Any news on UPS recruits?  Is Bridgeland going to be there for awhile?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on May 11, 2006, 12:44:56 PM
Congrats to Coach Bridgeland ...now somebody else might have a chance to keep the NWC competitive!  But look out for the Loggers, with Head Coach Justin Lunt runnin' the show...WOW...could be exciting.  Look for UPS to repeat...no...3PEAT...no...4Peat?! in '07.  Can't say this will be my last post, but loyalties lie elsewhere.  Go Waves
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on May 15, 2006, 10:20:47 AM
BHawks:   

Do you expect Hackett to let Lunt have his shot at running the show?  I know he was named interm coach, but it sounds like the situation is less than certain.  I assume Lunt would continue to run Bridgeland's system, which would keep up the excitement level for fans and hopefully retain most of the current players.  UPS could bring in someone else with more experience, but it would almost certainly be at the expense of 100 point games and 40 mintues of the press.  Ah, this is why athletic directors get paid the big bucks.  Wait, almost forgot that this was D3 for  mintue . . . 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on May 16, 2006, 08:56:32 AM
SpooH SreggoL:

My two cents on the coaching position:  It is a safe choice for the AD to give Lunt a shot at the job.  It seems reasonable that EB would advocate for him to take over the program, and he does have connections with current players and recruits.  If a new staff is brought in and the program takes a substantial slide backwards, that then falls at the AD's feet.  The logic would be that she made a change when none was needed.  If, on the otherhand, Lunt takes over and doesn't have much success, I'd guess there would be more understanding for giving him a shot before a new staff was hired; not to say that students, alums, and the UPS administration would enjoy a step-back, but if one is to come it is "better" from the AD's perspective I would argue that it happen under Lunt then someone else.  Whoever comes in has a hell of a standard to meet.  I don't think that the program has to fall-off much, although the teams of recent years surly reflected their coaches personality.  A new identity will emerge I am sure, but there is still a lot of talent on that roster and coming in for the 06-07 season.  Logger Nation will be fine going forward.

Congrats to EB on the new position and best wishes at the D1 level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on May 17, 2006, 11:06:26 AM
Congrats to Coach B for making the jump to the big time...I'm sure he'll be successful in whatever role he plays on the Pepperdine staff...

Now, in regards to the state of the Loggers, I'd have to say the rest of the league has to be smiling, especially the folks at Whitworth and Willamette...Bridge was dominating the league, and regardless of who the Loggers put at the helm, they WILL NOT BE THE SAME.

a.  EB is gone, and with him, the person who pushed the buttons to get the Logger system to where it is (even if his assistant gets the job, he's NOT EB, and the system they run will be affected)

b.  Curtiss and McVey are gone. HUGE losses

c. EB leaving  will have a huge role in their ability to keep current players, as well as attract future recruits, because as BHawks was fond of saying, EB was killing everyone in the recruiting wars as well...

And on a side note, it probably means we're rid of BHawks on this board...which is, unfortunately, going to seriously dampen conversation around here...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on May 19, 2006, 03:10:48 PM
Bearcats,

While I agree with you that the rest of the league will have to be smiling at some level, I am sorry that the change at UPS is coming now.  I have to give EB a heckuva lot of credit for upping the bar in this league.  He did a tremendous job at UPS and his effort forced other coaches in the league to either match his effort, or fall by the wayside.  I think we saw Willamette and Whitworth respond this year. 

I am curious about the state of the UPS program, however.  How many of the players are like Blackhawks?  He made clear in his last post that his loyalty lies strickly with EB, and not with any school (as he showed when he transferred in).  How many other current players in the program have no real attachement to UPS?  Will they leave at the first sign of Lunt exerting his own authority in the program? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 1992 on June 18, 2006, 02:23:26 AM
Recruiting news???

Heard L&C, Whitworth, and Pacific all got very good transfers.  I'm sure Brigde did his thing for the Loggers again prior to leaving.

George Fox, Willamette, Linfield, PLU, Whitman?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on July 06, 2006, 05:34:30 PM
Props again to the NWC for the performance at the Spokane Hoopfest a couple weeks ago.  For those who don't know, Spokane's Hoopfest is the largest 3 on 3 street basketball tournament in the U.S. 

For the third year in a row, a team made up of three former Pirates (Depew, Bierlink, Chase Williams) and one former Pioneer (Mietus) made the Open Division semifinals.  Actually this group won the whole thing in 2004.  Another example of the quality of basketball in the NWC, especially when you get to see where most of the other teams are made of of former DI players.  This group has outdone every Gonzaga team over the last three years, which says a lot in this town.
Title: Season is Here
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 16, 2006, 03:02:36 PM
Now that practices have started for the hoops season, is anyone out there interested in some Preseason Predictions? I'm hoping the loss of Bridgeland at UPS doesn't mean the end of our friend BHawks, but I'm willing to bet it probably does...

As for me, I have high hopes for the WU this year, even though last year ended on such a down note (losses at UPS, then in the tourney at Whitworth) and the graduation of John Olinger and 4 other quality seniors...

The WU brings back CJ Stuvland (all-conference), Josh Erickson, Ian Mansfield, and David Fife, and it sounds like a talented group of new players...

Before making any predictions myself, does anybody have any news on the other contenders (UPS, Whitworth, LC, etc)??

Or maybe the loss of Bhawks really will mean the death of this board as well...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 18, 2006, 08:38:57 PM
Unfortunately bcatsfan I think you're right you may have lost your loyal better half Bhawks.  Although I hope to see him back for another year his loyalties I'm afraid may lie elswhere.  I myself can't promise the same quick wit, daring predictions, and overall lovable qualities as my predecessor but I do hope to have a good time discussing NWC bball and in particular the Dynasty that is... the UPS loggers!

Lets get down to business

Although a change has come about with the loss of a head coach and an All American (Chase Curtiss) don't expect UPS bball to fall from the top of the league.  New head coach Justin Lunt is more than capable of taking over this year, he had two years of experience as assistant and he knows what it takes for this team to win. 

Although the Logs are extremely young they make up for it with talent.  Antoine Williams and Jason Foster speak for themselves, they both had a great Freshman year and are ready to carry a heavier leadership and scoring load this year.  Ryan Delong is back, he will have much more freedom this year and will be a big scoring threat night in and night out (I expect him to be in the hunt for POY at the end of the season).  Taylor Marsh is an animal from behind the three point line and if he plays as well as he has this summer he will be a huge offensive weapon.  Also watch out for Robert Kraul and James Pinkney they are both monsters on the glass and have great athleticism on defense. 

To be honest I don't know much about the new Fresmen but I have heard they are looking good.  Overall, I fully expect UPS to have a great shot at taking home their forth consecutive League championship.

I'm looking forward to hearing about the rest of the teams around the NWC.  I'm still thinking about my preseason all league picks but I will come up with them shortly. 

Bcats I hope we can get a few more people to join us...Good luck this year I can't wait for the season to start!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 19, 2006, 02:40:54 PM
Logs,

Good to hear another voice in this valley of silence...

I have heard that LC will be improved this season, and that Pacific has a ton of new guys...cannot confirm any of this, but if that's true, I think it makes the NWC race very interesting...

I'd say Willamette, Whitworth, UPS, LC, and Pacific would be in the fight for the top 3 playoff spots, with Fox (lost a LOT), Whitman (always average), Linfield (big rebuilding job) and PLU (bigger rebuilding job) kind of falling by the wayside sometime in January...

More exact predictions to come...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 19, 2006, 04:40:05 PM
It's seems like much of the league will be trying to rebuild this year...it could make for a very interesting race.  With the exception of Stuvland and Kyle Born all of the first and second team all league selections for 05-06 were seniors...meaning much of the talent is gone.  I realize this isn't the only indication of the overall quality of the NWC but it looks like there is plenty of room for young talent to take over this year. 

Some teams will have a much MUCH harder time rebuilding than others (PLU/Linfield) as you mentioned, but for the top half of the league it should be a good show. 

My prediction is that UPS, WU, and Whitworth will be the top three again.  Pacific did have some good big guys last year but with there only real scoring threat gone (Kawazoe) they will be even more hard pressed to find scoring this season, unless they picked up some talented transfers.  I also think this could be the year Whitman makes it out of the basement of the conference.  With Born back (he should be in the hunt for POY) as well as Warner and Faidley, it will be a rough trip to Walla Walla this year.  As for LC...I'm gonna have to see it to believe it, they have been a huge dissapointment the last two years and they are gonna need some bigger, more talanted players for much to change. 

Well, that's about all I got...still thinking about my pre season awards.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on October 19, 2006, 06:25:02 PM
AHHH Yes!! I found it.  Excuse me as I am new to this whole internet business.  I just got the DSL hooked up this week and a buddy of mine told me about this www. web site.  You could say I have followed NWC basketball for quite some time now and now I have somewhere to talk about it!

I read some of the past posts to try and educate myself on some of the discussion.  It has brought out some thoughts I would like to share.

This B-Hawks character that you speak of seems very confident in the Bridgeland Loggers, and rightfully so.  I take it he is off the board now. Too bad.  It seemed like he brought salsa to the party.

I mention this because, in reference to B-Hawks, it was mentioned that loyalties tend to run with coaches.  Well, whatever they have in the Tacoma water says that loyalties may be strongest among players and those who go through it day in and day out. (Please excuse the "old-school" cliché, I am an old school guy). This may be one of the best things the Loggers have going for them.

Allow me to explain:
I assume that you are a UPS fan UPSoundLogs? Well correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that, despite the coaching change, UPS has everyone returning from last years team that is eligible.

Anyone who has seen NWC hoops knows that each year when the Loggers come to town they have a bench with more new faces than the freshman section of a high school yearbook.  Now that they have a group who has played together and decided to all come back together, it could be very dangerous to the rest of the league.  The Loggers now may not have the same growing pains as they might have incurred in the past and can begin to fine tune even earlier.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on October 19, 2006, 11:29:20 PM
1. UPS
2. WU
3. Whit.

Loggers don't lose more than 2 NWC games and take a 4th title in 4 year.  Lunt should win COY honors but won't as the coaches think a blind school girl could roll the ball out and let the Loggers win 14 games, so some other general gets the hardware.  Fine, JL can take his ring to the NCAA's with a first round bye and second round home win over a SCIAC school...again.  Then off to Wisc. and all bets are off.  You heard it hear first.  RIP Bhawks.
Title: Predicitions
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 20, 2006, 11:55:07 AM
I agree with the comment about Bourne (sp?)...for a guy his size, he surprised me at Willamette with how light on his feet he was...

Now, for my picks:

1. Whitworth
2. UPS
3. Willamette
4. LC
5. Pacific
6. Whitman
7. Linfield
8. George fox
9. PLU

Obviously, I believe my Bearcats capable of winning the whole thing in the NWC, but to avoid being too much like Bhawks, I'll settle them into the third playoff spot (and in reality, when WU goes 1-4 against Whitworth/UPS last year, you can't justify picking your favorite team over those ones)...

Whitworth loses the POY, but rumor has it they've got some nice transfers in, to go along with BWilliams and JYoung, and they played very well down the stretch last year, so I like their odds...

The 3Peat champs, UPS, does have a lot back, but I don't think you can under estimate how much Curtiss and McVey really meant to them...losing them and EB is too much for a 4th title, but expect them to still have a say in the NWC tourney...

Willamette loses Johnny O, but brings back a solid backcourt in Erickson, Fife, and Stuvland, and if it can get consistent play out of Mansfield and whoever they start at the other spot, they should be very good...the question is whether they can find a way to beat Whitworth (I think their website said its been 7 or 8 straight to the Pirates??)

I think LC's pg (Tillery?) was the quickest I saw last year at WU's home games...and overall they seemed to have more talent than what they showed...I'm picking them to be much improved...

Pacific is a tough place to play, and their new coach has some recruiting ties in Cali, so I find it hard to believe they won't be at least mid level this year...

All-NWC picks later...

Nice to see everyone on the Discussion, and it looks like Loggerville will be holding the BHawks mantle of Tacoma for the year...I wonder if Pinecone (Whitworth) is still around...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 20, 2006, 01:55:37 PM
I've got...

UPS
Willamette
Whitworth
Whitman
Pacific
LC
George Fox
Linfield
PLU

UPS...obviously I have to put my guys on top ;D. Not just cause they are my guys but I do believe they will be able to carry on with the Loggers success.  Lunt and the rest of the coaching staff have had great experience from the last few years, I think they have a rough road ahead but will be a power in the NWC and will 4peat as league champs.

I like Willamette this year, I think they had some really good young players last year that will develop nicely, if Stuvland can shoot the ball at the same level as last year but on a more consistent basis I think they will be very difficult to beat especially at home...those drawbridge hoops can't be underestimated.  JO will be missed as a leader/scorer but I still think WU will be tough this year. 

Unfortunately I don't know much about Whitworth, but they do have Williams back and it sounds like they will be getting some good transfers.  Having one of the most difficult places to play on the longest road trip of the year will help them a lot, they shouldn't fall off too much. 

To be honest the rest of the league was a toss up for me, I think Whitman will be tough to beat, especially with Kyle born averaging 50 and 25 as a senior and they have a big advantage in that teams have to drive so far to play them, the Whitworth/Whitman road trip is the toughest by far.

George Fox has been on the decline ever since they lost Gaymen...I see that exceleratiing with the losses of Shmick and Szalay. 

Simply based off of the last couple years I think the bottom of the league will all be equally weak but will suprise teams that don't come in prepared (ex. Whitworth losing to PLU last year).






Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 24, 2006, 12:43:17 AM
Hello Bearcats3, Loggerville and all - I forget to check this board for a couple weeks and suddenly its come to life, which is great!  Looking forward to another great year of NWC basketball.

I don't know much about the newcomers at Whitworth (transfers, freshmen), but have heard from some close to the program that coaches feel its the best incoming group in at least ten years.  What I do know is that the Pirates will have the most veteran and versatile back court in Williams and Young in the NWC.  I think they will have really good years.  And James Jones could be the breakout player in the conference this year.  He had huge games off of the bench against UPS, and will be a starter this year.

The word is that in addition to the usual suspects (Whitworth, UPS, Willamette), Pacific could be a surprise.  We'll see how things play out.  I think L&C will be right there for a conference playoff spot as well.

Looking forward to some great games and basketball conversation.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on October 25, 2006, 02:05:50 PM
Predictions:
UPS
WW
WU
Pacific
Whitman
LC
PLU
George Fox
Linfield

You have to give it to the reigning champs.  What did they lose? They graduated McVey, Curtiss, and some non-factor that held up the end of the bench.  I'm not sure if Walker graduated, but it seems like he has been there for a long enough time for him to go. Maybe some clarification UPSoundLogs? Either way you can say the same thing after every UPS title run...they lost Glynn/Mendoza....they lost Cross/Shelton...point being that like every team year in and year out, this years Loggers lost an integral part of last year's squad, but this cannot be held against them.  Their new coach was there for two of the title runs, so I am sure he did his homework going into this season just like they have every other season.  I am not even sure if I would take McVey and Curtiss in that hypothetical "two on two" tournament anyway.

The question is not whether UPS is capable of winning it, but is how more has the rest of the league closed the gap? 

WW has to be reckoned with.  They do have an experienced backcourt, but I think what will be more interesting is who they bring in to fill their smaller forward/bigger guard type spots. Those spots have made the silent difference for WW over the recent years, i.e. Bierlink, Pecht, Tucker, so it will be interesting to see what kind of play they get out of that spot.

Willamette year in and year out has one of the most fundamental half court defenses on the west coast with no one ever making it all the way to the rim.  That teamed with a favorable home court, will make for contention for the NWC tournament no matter who James brings in.

I think the surprise team will be Pacific.  Lowery posted some good wins last year, and nearly pulled off some big ones at home vs UPS and Southern Oregon at home.  Having his first own recruiting class will be a big help for him, but he is probably one more year and recruiting class away from the top three.  Still, look for some good games from this group.

As for breakout player of the year as brought up by PineCone: Ryan DeLong, UPS.  I have seen this kid play for the past two years and he is the most basketball talented player to wear a UPS uniform out of all their runs.  He never seemed like he had the full green light though.  Maybe a new staff at UPS will change that.

Don't look for him to get the POY though, that will probably go to Born over at Whitman.  Honestly, I am just going with league policy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 25, 2006, 07:41:34 PM
Gil-
I can't completely clarify for you what Walker's situation is, I do believe he has finished up his eligibility but then again I also thought that about last year.  If the logs do get him back it would be a great help leadership wise they are a very young team...I think a "supersenior" would help some.  Even though he's very small (I think he's listed as about 5'8) he plays extremely hard and seems to be one of the guys that allows UPS to play at such a frantic pace.

Also...although I think you have some valid points about the loggers losses from last season I believe you underestimate the role Curtiss played.  I do think Puget Sound will find their way without him but he was the unquestioned leader to their squad.  It's not so much his points/shooting/toughness that will be missed but his relationship with their coach.  I have heard several people say that Curtiss and the departed head coach Bridgeland had almost a father/son type relationship.  Curtiss was able to be an extension of the head coach out on the floor, that is a huge quality to have. 

You are right though, the Loggers have been able to overcome losses in the past it should be a rough start without upperclassmen leadership but I have faith the logs will pull through. 

By the way does anyone know what Curtiss is doing currently?  I thought he was definitely good enough to play overseas. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 26, 2006, 04:02:59 PM
Josh Walker has finished his eligibilty @UPS, although his brother, Jeff, is still on the team. Josh was a "supersenior" last season, due to the fact that he broke his ankle as a true freshman and redshirted the next season, still recovering from the injury. He will still be on the Logger bench, though, as he is helping coach the Loggers. He will be missed just as much as Curtiss and McVey, as he was a tenacious defender and rebounder, despite his size. He was so aggressive, that he was able to draw tons of fouls and get to the free throw line.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 26, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
I think you'd get a lot of arguments as to whether or not you can put Josh Walker in the same category as Curtiss and McVey...that might be stretching it a BIT.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 26, 2006, 05:19:09 PM
Quote from: bearcatsfan3 on October 26, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
I think you'd get a lot of arguments as to whether or not you can put Josh Walker in the same category as Curtiss and McVey...that might be stretching it a BIT.





Well, he didn't score as much as those other two, but he was their top defender and constantly was harassing opposing players. He had a knack of getting to the free throw line, picking up big rebounds, making steals, and taking lots of charges. He was the intangible type player that is always tough to replace.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on October 26, 2006, 06:48:58 PM
Quote from: pennstlbu on October 26, 2006, 04:02:59 PM
he was a tenacious defender and rebounder, despite his size.
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on October 25, 2006, 07:41:34 PM
Even though he's very small (I think he's listed as about 5'8)

In speaking about Walker you guys make him seem Earl Boykins/Mugsy Bogues like, almost a Rudy type character.  Maybe I am getting it wrong, and you probably know better than me Penn and UPSound, but when I saw him play that was not the case at all.  He seemed to me to be at least 5'9.  This is not too uncommon in the NWC as most many teams have scrappy smaller guards that can get it done i.e. Schmick GFU, Warner Whit.

As for him being the best defender Penn, well that UPS defense is so intense and crazy, I think the best UPS defender is a timid point guard.  It seemed to me that the UPS defense either works as a whole or fails as a whole making it difficult to distinguish one guy as the best.  I will give it to him though, Walker was not afraid to hit the floor.

Penn. could you answer UPSound's question about Curtiss playing overseas?  I am curious myself.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 27, 2006, 04:49:05 PM
The thing w/ UPS is that most of the time they play w/ a 4 guard lineup, so that would leave one of their guards against one of the opposing team's post players often. So, they automatically had a disadvantage on the boards, but they make up for it with their gambling defense, and offensive rebounds. Despite their smaller size, they still boxed out relatively well.

Walker is about 6-0 or 6-1, but he played bigger than that, but still had the quickness to defend opposing perimeter players.

As far as Curtiss, I think that I heard that he is at grad school somewhere. Not sure if he is playing at all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 27, 2006, 05:23:49 PM
Penn-
Walker between 6' and 6-1?  The only way he is over 6' is if he's wearing heals!!!  I'm a little over 6' and when I walked by him after watching a game one time I was looking down at him, he's 5'10 if he's lucky, you are right though he plays bigger than he really is...anyways that's enough little man talk.

Penn do you have any pre-season predictions, you seem to be knowlegeable about the Logger program.  Do you have any information about their incoming freshman?  Did they get any new big guys? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 27, 2006, 06:17:14 PM
I'm good friends w/ Walker and I'm just a little over 6 foot. He's about my height or a half inch taller.

Preseason predictions? I don't know. I'm a little out of the circle now. I'm back in Montana now, instead of Tacoma. But I'd predict that UPS would have to be the favorite to repeat yet again based on who they have back. It seems every year that UPS is able to bring in a few talented freshmen, and I don't doubt that they were able to again this year, even with the loss of Bridgeland.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 01, 2006, 12:29:06 AM
Heard from a source that the Pirates had a great scrimmage against NIC yesterday.  Though a JC, NIC is full scholarship and usually sends guys to D1 every year.  Most years they beat the Pirates in the early scrimmage.  Source told me the Bucs won by more than 30. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 01, 2006, 11:15:15 AM
This is probably a stupid question but...What does NIC stand for and where are they from?  Sounds like Whitworth will be tough this year if NIC is as good as you say conefan.   Any info yet on their new guys...position, size, age, scoring, etc?   I keep hearing how good the WW tranfers/recruits are but I haven't seen any of the facts yet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: lcalum on November 01, 2006, 06:29:18 PM
Here is a site  to check if guys are playing overseas:

http://www.usbasket.com/usaabroad.asp


they have done a good job keeping this pretty up to date. the only problem i have seen are the LC guys are listed under LC State.

hope LC does better this year...they are suppose to be better having gotten a couple of transfers in but we all know that doesnt mean a thing until they perform. will be tough to beat UPS with the experience the team has the past few years in winning. curious to see if there will be any change with bridgeland not there. he is a great coach and gets the most out of his guys...hope that continues. always fun to see guys succeed and play after college since they are coming out of the small school leagues.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 01, 2006, 07:23:38 PM
NIC = North Idaho College

I looked at the roster on the website and saw three JC transfer forwards who are in the 6-3 to 6-5 range.  I won't really know more till I see them on the floor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 03, 2006, 12:39:57 PM
Geez, no love for the NWC from D3hoops preseason poll.  UPS #22/Whitworth is receiving votes...and what's worse is that a SCIAC team is ahead of the NWC crew, Occidental #20? Ouch!!  I'm hoping everyone does well in the preseason against other d3 competition so we can get some more respect for the conference. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on November 03, 2006, 02:17:10 PM
I will have to agree with you UPSoundLogs.  The ranking of Occidental ahead of UPS was quite disappointing.  The SCIAC has been knocked out of the tournament the past three years by the Loggers.  As for the 22 ranking, it is not that surprising and somewhat justified.  I do not need to go into the same old story about what the Loggers lost, yada yada yada, but in comparing the Logger's rank to the other teams they encountered in the tournament, Augustana dropped to 24 and Illinois Wesleyan completely dropped out of the top 25.  The worst part is that for the NWC to gain some ground it looks like the rest of the Top 25 will just have to lose.  Neither UPS or WW are playing any teams that could possibly give them a jump in the ranks just on beating them alone.

Thanks, Icalum, for the info regarding the overseas hoops and welcome to the board.  Most surprising is that McVey is not playing anywhere.  That kid was a beast inside and was still able to get off the ground.  He had the most pro potential out of all of last year's group. 

Curtiss is not playing anywhere either, but I thought his job was a lot easier anyway with the triple teams McVey would see nightly. I didn't see anything on there about Pecht, after all, he did beat Curtiss out for the MVP.

Any preseason scrimmage news around the league?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: lcalum on November 04, 2006, 11:18:03 PM
for mcvey, it does take time for the overseas gigs to come about sometimes. i know a few of the LC guys had some time off before things developed. also a matter of who you know and get as an agent. its hard today with the game of basketball being so global for small school guys to get a crack at it.

the pioneers played pretty well against Lane CC and the UO scrimmage was a lot better than the score indicated. so of their guys have worked hard in the offseason and it looks as though they should give it a better run this year. we will see as the season progresses......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 06, 2006, 07:52:40 AM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on November 03, 2006, 12:39:57 PM
Geez, no love for the NWC from D3hoops preseason poll.  UPS #22/Whitworth is receiving votes...and what's worse is that a SCIAC team is ahead of the NWC crew, Occidental #20? Ouch!!  I'm hoping everyone does well in the preseason against other d3 competition so we can get some more respect for the conference. 

From November 17 onward, it's not "preseason" anymore. It's the regular season. Those non-conference games count towards your record, too, you know.

(Congrats upon being the first person who made me post this reminder this season!  :D)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2006, 11:35:28 PM
Shameless Self-Promotion

The season starts in a week, don't forget to join the Survivor League and new the Nationwide Pick Em League in the multi-regional board!!!  ;D

For the record, I picked Whitworth! lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PostUPS on November 14, 2006, 12:58:02 AM

As for the status on the graduated Loggers - McVey landed an outstanding position with a securities company and Curtiss is working on his Masters at a college in the midwest.  Curtiss did play a stint in Australia over the summer.

As good as they are on the court - most Loggers are students first and athletes second.  An even greater compliment to what Bridgeland accomplished and Lunt is maintaining.  These guys will excel even more in their working careers... and life goes on after basketball... as much as we would like to see them play even more.  But there are some impressive new guys coming in this year and five quality-minute players are returning.  Should be another exciting run at the Fieldhouse.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 15, 2006, 09:36:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 06, 2006, 07:52:40 AM
From November 17 onward, it's not "preseason" anymore. It's the regular season. Those non-conference games count towards your record, too, you know.

(Congrats upon being the first person who made me post this reminder this season!  :D)

LMAO... ;D :D ;) I can't believe I missed this before.  Too funny.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 18, 2006, 03:16:49 AM
The Whitworth Pirates won big tonight in Chicago.  Final score:
Whitworth 95
Eastern 67
http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Eastern.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Eastern.htm)

They conclude their trip to Chicago with a game tomorrow night against Wheaton.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 18, 2006, 10:49:58 AM
Well, just another 30+ win on opening night in Tacoma.  Umm, anyone seen that Medved guy before, he's kind of got some range 8)  Welcome back CM, here's to a good year for you.  Foster looks great, Delong was willing to share the rock - the fellas look good.  Lunt has to be feeling better about getting the first one out of the way.  I don't care who you are, at what level, that first game where all eyes are on you as the HC is one you'll remember.  Congrats to him and the Loggers on a nice little 124 opening night sleeper.  Off to pre-funk THE GAME.  GO BIG BLUE.

RIP Bo.  You'll be missed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 18, 2006, 03:27:04 PM
After jumping out to a 20 point lead in about the first ten minutes of the game the loggers cruised to an easy win.  Even though UC Santa Cruz is not by any means good competition UPS looked better than I expected for such a young team.  Foster and Kraul are going to be a tough inside matchup for any team to deal with. With Medved, Marsh, and...well just about everyone else on the team bombing away from three point land it opens up the inside for the big guys to go to work, especailly on the offensive glass.  I can't wait for the logs to face some more formidable competion so I can see what the team is really made of.  Good win Fellas!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 19, 2006, 12:34:45 AM
This is not a comfortable true story but it helps diagnose symptoms of why LINFIELD has become only a football/baseball school.

   One rainy Christmas vacation 7-8 years ago I wandered on down to Long Beach City College to see a high school basketball tournament. It was absolutely great. In the next couple of months I saw Jared and Jason Collins, Paul Pierce, Baron Davis, Tremaine Fowlkes, Tyson Chandler, Tayshawn Prince, Jason Kapono, among others, play high school basketball. Some I got to watch for 4 years.
   The number one rated L.A. City team that season was Fremont.  I happened to see them play and found out a kid I knew when he was 10 was on the team. I discovered that he had been an All-League defensive back that football season and that he had been one of the fastest guys in the City in the 200m the previous couple of years. He was not a starter on the b-ball team that lost the City Championship game to Crenshaw (again) but he did have a career game in the City Finals.
His physical stature was about 5'9", 165 lbs. I remember him being a good student and I saw "LINFIELD" written all over him. I checked around about the new NCAA provisos and I sent an LA City championship game tape to the coach.  No response.
   Six months later at a Homecoming game I sought out the basketball coach, introduced myself and asked if he received my tape.
AND I QUOTE  "We thought he was too good for us."!!!!!!!!
With my jaw still drooping on my toes I chance to run into a Hall of Fame football coach from LINFIELD who shook his head and told me I should know his response would have been much different.
   












Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 19, 2006, 03:54:08 AM
Whitworth won again tonight against Wheaton (Ill) 70-67.  Wheaton has an all-american so they can't be that bad.  The Pirates are now 2-0 and headed to Hawaii for a 7 day vacation...I mean to play a few basketball games.

http://www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/mbasketball/index.html (http://www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/mbasketball/index.html)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 19, 2006, 09:26:33 AM
130 points...school record in 3's....and funny, that Medved guy seemed to have a decent night again!  22 pts on 6-7 three's in 20 minutes; not a bad night, you'd think someone would guard that guy.  Quality win over a average team to be sure. Forcing 73 T.O. in two games shows me that the pressure package didn't leave town with EB.  Loggers head south for a pair of non-NCAA games in Oregon before the Turkey Day break.  Good luck fellas.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 19, 2006, 12:21:20 PM
Big win for the Pirates at one of DIII's toughest venue's last night.  Bryan Williams named tournament MVP after getting 20 assists in 2 games.  Gonna be a fun year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2006, 04:42:02 AM
I posted at length about the Whitworth @ Wheaton game on CCIW Chat. Bryan Williams was simply amazing. He put on perhaps the best performance by a point guard that I've seen in this decade -- and I usually see anywhere from 25 to 50 D3 games a year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 21, 2006, 03:43:16 AM
Thanks GS - I appreciate the feedback, and the answer at length on the CCIW board.  I think the senior back court could take the Pirates a long way this season.  BTW - it's Jim, not Jack, H.  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 24, 2006, 08:17:57 PM
Whitworth remains undefeated at the US Bank - Whitworth Maui Invitational.  They beat Bethany Lutheran of Minnesota 68-56 in the first game.  And beat Cal Lutheran 68-55 the following day.

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/HawaiiSched.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/HawaiiSched.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 27, 2006, 01:36:59 PM
Finally NWC regular season starts up this weekend!  There should be a good show in Tacoma on Friday night.  I don't know if a Stuvlandless Willamette stands any kind of a chance against the Loggers AT HOME, but I'll pay to watch anyways.  I look forward to seeing how UPS bounces back after a tough loss to Warner Pacific, my guess is a 20+ point win. 

Do we have any other predictions about games around the league...Bcatsfan....are you still there buddy?

Pinecones- After Mr. Sager expressing his new found man crush on Brian Williams over several lengthy posts I know that BW is playing well so far this season.  Do you have anymore insight on the other players from Whitworth.  It looks like they are playing great and have gotten some big wins to start the season.  From the numbers it looks like JJones and Hesunsnufulupogus are putting up decent numbers, how do the new guys look thus far?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 27, 2006, 04:18:17 PM

I've been slow to post as I try to get a feel for WU...without actually seeing them play.

Obviously, the fact that they are missing 3 starters has dampered their start, but in the end it could be a blessing, as assuming Erickson, Fife and Stuvland return, the guys playing now should be seasoned and improved, giving the team a ton of depth...

I also believe the loss of a strong group of seniors (Olinger, Luchterhand, Miller, Baran, Garrelts) has been a bigger hurdle to overcome than people thought, as their experience in the heat of the battle obviously was helpful....

1-3 is obviously not where they Bearcats probably envisioned themselves, but its certainly not time to panic...WU is still talented, well-coached, and in all honesty, the fact they are probably out of AT-LARGE consideration after the Cali losses is not a big deal...the team should be focused on getting in the top 3 of the NWC and winning the league playoffs (as at-large's in the NWC have been few and far between anyway)

Conference play begins Friday in their own personal hell house (UPS) as the Bearcats have been soundly beaten the past 3 times in Tacoma...time to turn things around...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on November 27, 2006, 11:53:13 PM
Good to see the board has picked up....

It seems that Whitworth is off to a pretty good start.  I am not sure just how good Wheaton is, but a road win against the upper half of the CCIW is always a good thing for the resume....and for the league.  Looks like a two horse race is beginning to develop.

Its too bad that Willamette could not have come out with a couple of victories in Cali, but it seems like they have bigger fish to fry: starting off the season in the wrong side of Tacoma, especially after UPS just came off of a loss.  Speaking of that, looks like UPS was taken down by Warner Pacific this weekend.  Possible chink in the armor?  Care to comment UPSoundLogs?

Does anyone know what is up with Whitman's schedule? Corban College and then straight into NWC action...does not seem too sensible.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on November 28, 2006, 03:10:54 PM
Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on November 27, 2006, 11:53:13 PMIts too bad that Willamette could not have come out with a couple of victories in Cali, but it seems like they have bigger fish to fry: starting off the season in the wrong side of Tacoma, especially after UPS just came off of a loss.  Speaking of that, looks like UPS was taken down by Warner Pacific this weekend.  Possible chink in the armor?  Care to comment UPSoundLogs?

I wouldn't put too much stock into UPS' loss to Warner Pacific. WP was a very good NAIA team last year (top 10 maybe?) and defeated UPS at UPS last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 28, 2006, 07:09:34 PM
Newest top 25 rankings were put up...

#18 Whitworth
#22 UPS

Should be an interesting season.  Maybe this year the NWC will get two teams into the tourney.  I think last year's Whitworth team was just as good as UPS' and could have made a little run in the tourney.  We'll see how UPS and Willamette really are in a few days, while Whitworth opens up conference play against Pacific on friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 29, 2006, 09:41:33 AM
This past weekend I went and watched Occidental play at CSU Stanislaus. As I was looking through the program, I noticed a Stephen Chang on the Notre Dame de Namur (D2) team. It says his previous school was UPS. Just thought some of the UPS folks might be interested.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 30, 2006, 05:05:30 PM
Chang only played one year for UPS and then transfered.  He was pretty good though his freshman year.  How did he play for Notre Dame de Namur? Thanks for the info.

It's nice to see two NWC schools in the top 25 this week, I can't even remember the last time that happened...maybe 02-03 with WW and LC? I'm not sure?  Anyways it's good to see Whitworth back on the National stage with UPS.  Hopefully both teams can stick around in the rankings for a while, atleast long enough to see a top 25 matchup in the NWC!!!

Gil- I agree with Penn, I wouldn't read too much into the UPS loss to Warner Pacific.  Although I was dissapointed to see UPS lose to them two years in a row...ouch! WP is a tough NAIA team with some really good players, one of their guards averages 25 and put up 39 agianst the logs....ouch again!!!  I think its good for the young UPS team to lose early on and hopefully learn from it so they don't make the same mistakes during confrence play.  From the numbers it looked like most of the loggers played well, they just have to play some D. 

Can't wait for Friday, I'll be in Tacoma!!!!  Judging by the crowds I've seen at the UPS games so far this year it shold be a loud one.  I hope WU is ready so I can watch a competitive game. 

Go Logs!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 30, 2006, 11:35:15 PM
UPSoundLogs, I didn't get to see Chang play. I arrived at the arena between games and only saw Oxy - Stan State.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on December 01, 2006, 09:32:23 PM
That's interesting to hear about Chang. I thought that I heard that he was going to Menlo when he left UPS, since he was from near the area. Nice to know he's still playing though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 02, 2006, 01:22:57 AM
UPS/Willamette going to double OT.  Willamette had a 4 pt lead with :34 to go in the OT and Willamette turns it over on its last three possessions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 02, 2006, 01:41:04 AM
pennstlbu, Notre Dame de Namur is just down the road from Menlo, so he did go back home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 02, 2006, 02:41:05 AM
Whitworth held off a tough Pacific team.  The Pirates offense didn't play a great game but the defense held onto the lead against the Pacific Boxer's streaky shooting.  Here's the write up from the Whitworth SID...

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Pac1.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Pac1.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on December 02, 2006, 12:41:19 PM
Quote from: cawcdad on December 02, 2006, 01:41:04 AM
pennstlbu, Notre Dame de Namur is just down the road from Menlo, so he did go back home.

OK, that makes sense. I probably just heard wrong that he was going to Menlo and that he was going to a school near Menlo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on December 02, 2006, 12:43:26 PM
Sounded like a crazy game night @ UPS. 140-137 Logger victory in 3OT! Teams combined for about 100 fouls shots and 70+ fouls.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2006, 09:25:07 PM
Whitworth starts out NWC by going 2-0.  They beat LC last night 82-73.  This time the D didn't look great.  LC is a good team and made 52% of their shots but too many were easy open looks around the perimeter.  It's a good thing Whitworth shot over 60% from the field (50% from three-point range).  Here's the realease...

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/L&C1.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/L&C1.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 04, 2006, 11:50:05 AM
Tough, tough weekend for the Bearcats...140-137 loss at UPS was amazing to hear on the radio, much less for anyone who was lucky enough to be there I'd imagine...WU had its chances, as it seemed there were at least 3 times they appeared to have won the game...

PLU must be improved, as they are undefeated...can't help but think that the UPS loss cost Willamette two games...

1-5, 0-2 is a big hole...but its a 3 team playoff, and if the 'Cats can rebound and just get in, who knows...they are obviously very capable, considering they went blow for blow with the 3 time champs on their own home floor...

What a game...I was exhausted listening, I don't know how Craig Spivey(?) kept up with the announcing on the radio...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 04, 2006, 03:07:18 PM
The bearcats proved to be much more of a challenge than I thought they would be on Friday night, I figured that without Stuvland they wouldn't put up a good fight...I was way off.  The triple OT was exhausting and at times very painful to watch.  Both teams had several oppurtunities to put the game away but there were many lucky/boneheaded/horrible plays made by both sides that allowed the other team back in.  The crowd was great and I was thankful that for the most part the refs allowed the players to decide the game (meaning there was an equal amount of bad calls for both teams). 

I was impressed by Nugent from WU (freshman I think?), he gave UPS the most trouble for sure he'll be a great player in the NWC over the next few years.  Kraul from UPS also had a great game, he's solid in the post and great on the boards. 

I wasn't able to catch the GFU game at UPS but it sounded like they won with a lot more Breathing room.

Two hard fought NWC wins for the Loggers so far!  Hopefully that's a sign of things to come. 

I also saw that PLU went 2-0 on the weekend ??? I had to look at the scores twice.  Does anyone have an idea of who is playing well for them and how they are undeafeted?  I checked the box scores but was anyone at those games to see who's good, I was pretty suprised to see they beat WU so easily.  Maybe its just that the curse of Harshman is lifted?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 05, 2006, 12:58:22 AM
Initial impressions of the Whitworth team after seeing them in person for the first time -

First - if all the pieces are working at the same time, this is the most talented team since the NAIA finals team of 1995-96.  I only saw glimpses of it this weekend, but it was there.  Hasenfus is strong in the middle, they can shoot the lights out with Jones, Young and Williams, and they have an athletic and creative player in Symes.  Symes is more naturally athletic than anybody I've seen in a Pirate uniform in 20 years.  Willemsen offers a great option off of the bench, and Jurich provides solid bench minutes as well.
Second - The challenge for Hayford is to make all the pieces fit together.  Its still early yet, so not much to be concerned about yet.  I would expect by mid January that the team will be hittin on more cylanders at one time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 05, 2006, 01:09:55 AM
Quick impressions of the other teams, based on scores to date:

Doing as expected: UPS, Pacific, George Fox, Linfield
Doing better than expected: PLU, L&C
Doing worse than expected: Willamette, Whitman

Still early though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 05, 2006, 10:32:44 AM
Wow...Whitworth cracked the top ten, that was fast!  For a NWC team to jump to number 8 after only spending two weeks in the rankings is a nice suprise....Congrats WW.  UPS is still holding strong at 21, they are still going through some growing pains.  Being that they are so young means they are very inconsistent from what I've seen so far, but I still think they will be in a great position to make the tournament towards the end of the season. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 12:05:59 AM
Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on November 03, 2006, 02:17:10 PM
The worst part is that for the NWC to gain some ground it looks like the rest of the Top 25 will just have to lose.  Neither UPS or WW are playing any teams that could possibly give them a jump in the ranks just on beating them alone.


I apologize for quoting myself, but I wanted to get to it before anyone else did.  So can anyone pass the ketchup?  The foot in my mouth will taste much better that way.

I think I am with UPSoundLogs on this one; the jump by WW into the eight spot is quite surprising.  I did not realize how highly the voters of the d3 poll valued  HOME victories against Walla Walla (2-8), Pacific (2-4), and LC (5-3).  Apparently it is worth 10 spots on the polls.

I am not complaining too much though, I am all for respect for the NWC on the national level even if the logic behind it may seem a little off.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 06, 2006, 12:57:39 AM
Gilbert - I think the jump in the rankings have more to do with the voters having a better understanding of what the win at Wheaton meant.  Since Wheaton went on to beat both Calvin and Hope last week to move into the top 25 themselves.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 06, 2006, 01:28:28 PM
While obviously Willamette's record of 1-5 is NOT where they usually are/should be, I would venture to guess that if Whitworth started this season without Williams, Young, and Jones, or UPS started without Williams, Marsh, and Delong, they would be struggling themselves...

Willamette has played all but 4 minutes of their first 6 games without their projected starters at 1 (Erickson), 2 (Stuvland), and 3 (Fife)...now, I realize eventually you are what you are, but that's a HUGE chunk of your pie missing, and the fact they still battled UPS to a 140-137 decision speaks volumes of what they can/will be capable of...Mansfield has been huge, Nugent is shooting some ridiculously high %, Michael Smith (who I don't know if I've ever seen him before) scored 18 ppg over the weekend, and they've got Michael Plank (a football guy) scoring 17 points at UPS...

Now, the radio made it sound like Erickson is probably done...so they're not getting him back...but Stuvland and Fife, should be soon...add that to this mix, and they're still a legit threat for that 3rd spot...all you have to do is get in...

On a different note Pinecone...how would you compare this new guy to Tucker/Pecht/Depew?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 06, 2006, 04:31:36 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on December 06, 2006, 12:57:39 AM
Gilbert - I think the jump in the rankings have more to do with the voters having a better understanding of what the win at Wheaton meant.  Since Wheaton went on to beat both Calvin and Hope last week to move into the top 25 themselves.

Bingo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 07:46:03 PM
PineCone, Pat-

I hate to do this as I am a NWC fan and want to see the conference succeed on the national scene.  However, this is a discussion board so let's discuss.

My concern is the "great leap" from 18 to 8. You both cite a realization of the comittee as seeing a new "value" in the win versus Wheaton as they beat Calvin and Hope.  It was a good win which cannot be denied, but Calvin is 3-3 and is no longer in the top 25 and Hope is 2-2 and ranked 21.  Yes, both teams have played relativiely tough schedules, but it was WHEATON that beat Calvin and Hope and not Whitworth.  When you retroactively put value of wins based on other teams' future performances it makes for akward justifications....You know, the one's we all make around tournament time.  I think last year's was the best when another NWC follower in to office told me about something he read that started with CalTech...who beat a SCIAC team...that beat WW...who beat UPS..who beat UC Riverside...who beat Pacific...and it eventually got linked to beating Duke.  I think you see my point.

In regards to the WW no. 8 ranking in and of itself....Yes, there is something to say for consistency in winning 9 games straight (even if 5 of them were against teams with losing records, including Bethany and CalTech).  WW may be the 8th best team in the land, only time, and possibly the tournament will tell. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2006, 02:44:13 AM
Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 07:46:03 PM
PineCone, Pat-

I hate to do this as I am a NWC fan and want to see the conference succeed on the national scene.  However, this is a discussion board so let's discuss.

My concern is the "great leap" from 18 to 8. You both cite a realization of the comittee as seeing a new "value" in the win versus Wheaton as they beat Calvin and Hope.  It was a good win which cannot be denied, but Calvin is 3-3 and is no longer in the top 25 and Hope is 2-2 and ranked 21.  Yes, both teams have played relativiely tough schedules, but it was WHEATON that beat Calvin and Hope and not Whitworth.  When you retroactively put value of wins based on other teams' future performances it makes for akward justifications....You know, the one's we all make around tournament time.

You have to look at it within the context of the season, Gilbert. Jumping ten rungs up the ladder in early December is not the same thing as jumping ten rungs up the ladder in January or February. The season is still very young, so a greater fluidity in terms of movement up and down the rankings should be expected.

Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 07:46:03 PMI think last year's was the best when another NWC follower in to office told me about something he read that started with CalTech...who beat a SCIAC team...that beat WW...who beat UPS..who beat UC Riverside...who beat Pacific...and it eventually got linked to beating Duke.

Your officemate slipped up. Caltech hasn't beaten a fellow SCIAC team since ... what? 1987? 1988? Something like that. It's close to twenty years, if not more than twenty years. I'm sure someone on the SCIAC board would know this.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 03:39:17 AM
First off, I'm with Pineconefan on the Whitworth ranking.  Plus, it does you no good complaining about it right now since their is no BCS system in college basketball.  Based on the players on this years team, a team who competed with a UPS team who made a good run in the playoffs (not only competed but outscored 289-274 in their three meetings), and the quality win over wheaton, at wheaton, plus two conference victories...I don't think the #8 spot is completely undeserving. 

CalTech is 0-242 in conference games, that means the last time they beat a SCIAC team was 21 years (going on 22) ago and have lost 195 in a row against NCAA opponents.  That streak is even more impressive than Linfield's football winning streak.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 12:03:20 PM
I think Gil has a legit point in questioning how Whitworth could have possibly jumped 10 spots in one week ??? I'm also pretty confused on how that could have happened ???  However, I'm all for the NWC having success on the national level (yes, even if it is WW)...and I think G Sager had a clear cut explaination that makes good sense, his use of the word "fluidity" in discribing the young seasons rankings really topped it off for me, I just can't argue with that.

On another note...

Rat- after Mr. Sager's perfectly good explaination about the rankings you came in and succesfully screwed the pooch with yours.   I would love to know who is complaining about a BCS system in basketball?  Just curious where that cam from :-\? But lets go ahead and put your BCS remark on the pack burner for now.  The fact that you have tried to justify THIS YEARS Whitworth team being ranked 8th because of wins over LAST YEARS UPS squad will baffle the mind of anyone who knows anything about sports rankings ???. 

Although I should add, you cited a very meaningful statistic (sarcastic if you can't tell) in adding up LAST YEARS point totals from the matchups between UPS and WW... very crucial info ... I'm pretty sure the only stat that really means anything from LAST YEARS games between the two teams is 2-1, the amount of times UPS beat WW which I will remind you once again was LAST YEAR, meaning it doesn't matter in any way for THIS YEAR!!! Both WW and UPS have much different players than LAST YEARS teams.  THIS YEAR yes, Whitworth has a quality win over a very good Wheaton team, that is a fact that is OK for you to discuss.  Furthermore, If you have any questions about ground breaking statistics you would like to throw out there in the future why don't you go ahead and run your idea past a knowledgeable source first (and no the BCS board does not count they do football rankings this is basketball ;) ).   Keep on truckin!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 07, 2006, 02:00:48 PM
Bearcats, you make really good points about Willamette's injury situation.  When I listed Willamette as not doing as well as expected, that was just surface observation, without going into great detail.

I am sure Coach James will have things turned in the right direction when it counts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 07, 2006, 02:03:03 PM
Logs - I am pretty sure if you reread Rats' post, you will see he indicated that the current ranking is not too important because there is NOT a BCS style system.  So it was a good idea to leave that comment alone.

But you were correct on the second point, last year's results against UPS, or anyone else, have no bearing at all on this year's rankings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 02:37:45 PM
pcone- It's nice to see an informed bucks fan over there in Spokane ;D

I also agree with you and bcats about the WU injury situation, they would be a much better team with Stuvland back in my opinion.  I'm not as sure about the other guys that are out though, it looks like more effective players have stepped up in their absence, especially the freshman Nugent (I think that's his name?).  That's just from watching them play one game though. 

Bcats-is stuvland out with an injury or because of eligibility reasons?  I heard from someone that he only had half a year of eligibility left, do you know one way or the other?  Do you know when he will be back?  WU will be more dangerous with him I just hope they don't lose too many games early on, at the rate they are going they may dig too big of a hole for themselves by the time stuvland is back. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 03:03:57 PM
Whitworth has a bunch of players returning, from a team last year who was top 25 caliber...meaning they have the talent this year to be a top 25 team...It wasn't a good argument but i think it does show that Whitorth is good enough to be in the top 10 (on paper) and have backed it up with a quality win on the road...something UPS has yet to do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 03:38:28 PM
Rat- I'm pretty sure that last years "top 25 Caliber" (but they never actually made it there) WW team that you speak of had two guys named Pecht who happened to be the NWC player of the year and Tucker who was second team all Conference.  Correct me if I'm wrong but both of those players graduated....meaning they no longer play on the WW team.  If I am correct in my assumptions it would be very hard, if not impossible, for me to believe WW is the same team on paper.  I fully agree with you that WW has a very good team this year, and that they were very solid last year as well for that matter, but they in no way have the same impact players (besides bwillams) as they did last year.  I do however, apprecaite your quasi explanation of your last post, I now look at you as slightly less crazy...keep up the good work!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 07, 2006, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 03:39:17 AM
First off, I'm with Pineconefan on the Whitworth ranking.  Plus, it does you no good complaining about it right now since their is no BCS system in college basketball.  Based on the players on this years team, a team who competed with a UPS team who made a good run in the playoffs (not only competed but outscored 289-274 in their three meetings), and the quality win over wheaton, at wheaton, plus two conference victories...I don't think the #8 spot is completely undeserving. 


509-
As far as my complaints I am sorry if my comments seem unbearable to some on the board.  I was under the impression that this was a discussion board.  I found the WW jump to #8 worthy of discussion.  I mean, come on, I know there is no BCS system in basketball. I found out that the DIII national tilte was not decided in the "March Madness Bowl" at least two months ago.  If this board is meant for merely reporting on everyone's favorite team (as is the trend in many of your last postings 509), let me help everyone out.  I found a site that can save everyone some time:  www.google.com

May I further justify my surprise:  I noticed earlier in the season the end of year 2005-2006 rankings with UPS #8 as well.  If my memory serves me correctly UPS earned this ranking after amassing its 3rd conference title, 25 wins, and a run to the elite 8 after beating both the SCIAC and CCIW champions.  But hey....WW did beat Wheaton and the rankings are very "fluid" this time of year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 07, 2006, 05:06:13 PM
When the seniors from WU graduated last year, my "inside sources" to the team left...I will try to find out the situation with Stuvland, but I do know he had a full year left going into this season...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 05:36:01 PM
QuoteIf this board is meant for merely reporting on everyone's favorite team (as is the trend in many of your last postings 509), let me help everyone out.

You are right, from now on I will start posting about every team but Whitworth...Oh wait, the Whitworth basketball team is the only team I stay pretty well informed on...my bad.

And you are exactly right about UPS being good last year, and Whitworth played with them (even beating them by close to 20 points) in every game.  I don't think Pecht is was that much better than Jones has been this year, and with Tucker on the team, there was no room for a guy like Symes, and Williams and Young got less touches because of it.  I think this is a better team with out those two...so cmoparing them with last year's team is perfectly valid in my opinion.  In fact, all 5 starters average double figures in scoring this year ( at least they did as of last week)...its a hell of a lot more balanced team this year than the 1-2 punch of Pecht and Tucker.

Not only does UPSoundLogs not understand the BCS, because who honestly cares about football at UPS?  But appearently doesn't know what a Buc is...as in Buccaneer...not deer (Buck).  Maybe Gilbert McFinnegan will rip on you too for only posting about your favorite team?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 06:06:32 PM
whoa, Rat your measuring a little high on the Crazy-O-Meter again!  And just when I thought we had taken some steps in the right direction too...it's ok we are gonna get through this.

1) Jones is not even close to as good as Pecht, Sorry that's just the way it is.

2) I actually feel that I spread the love around the league when I post.  I'm obviously a UPS fun but I discuss many of our fine teams in the NWC.  WW, WU, GF, ...heck I even asked a few questions about PLU.  And if Gil does infact decide to "rip" on me, I'll take it and give it right back to him.  You see I like to take the "No excuses, play like a champion(Wedding Crashers)" approach.  I don't whine about it when someone "rips" me, unlike some people.

3) I actually do know a little about the BCS, I admittedly am not a huge Loggers football fan (even though they did have a good season this year) but seeing how they aren't a part of the BCS I don't think that should effect me too much.  I'm a big husky fan however (even though they did not have a good season...and haven't for a while) and they actually do use the BCS so I should be just fine, I apprecaite your concern for my football knowledge on a hoops site though, I like where your heads at.

4) Did you really correct my spelling of Buck's?  Geez, forget spell check I'm just gonna run all of my writing past you from now on.  I think I'm gonna spell it Bucks for the rest of the year now because you corrected my spelling of Bucks.  Bucks...Bucks...Bucks!!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 07, 2006, 08:13:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 05:36:01 PM
QuoteIf this board is meant for merely reporting on everyone's favorite team (as is the trend in many of your last postings 509), let me help everyone out.

You are right, from now on I will start posting about every team but Whitworth...Oh wait, the Whitworth basketball team is the only team I stay pretty well informed on...my bad.

....Young got less touches because of it.

Not only does UPSoundLogs not understand the BCS, because who honestly cares about football at UPS?  But appearently doesn't know what a Buc is...as in Buccaneer...not deer (Buck).  Maybe Gilbert McFinnegan will rip on you too for only posting about your favorite team?

I think I am just misunderstood.  I have no problem with favorite teams.  I am not going to lie, I even have a favorite WNBA team: The Los Angeles Sparks.  I was referring to reporting on your team (giving us a score of the game), as oppose to discussing things about the game or the league or what not.  I just saw that you have given us WW scores throughout the board.  Actually, I prefer that you go ahead and stick to WW basketball, or UPS football as they seem to be areas of expertise.   

Sorry if I ripped anyone....did not mean to hurt feelings.

As far a Young not getting as many touches...Ever since I saw him play for WW, it has been clear that he has been a #1 scoring option for them.  Do you see how many double screens and pick and rolls with him as the three point option they run for him?  His lack of touches are due to his single dimension, 3 point shooting.  Granted, he is one of the deadliest shooters on the West Coast, but teams can focus on that and take it away much easier if he does not put the ball on the floor.  All the attention he gets opens the floor up for guys like Pecht  and now Symes and Williams.

Does anyone know how much it costs for a Pirate to get his ears pierced?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 09:49:22 PM
So let me get this straight UPSoundLogs...I get criticized for comparing this year's Whitworth team to last year's team, but its totally ok for you to compare Jones from this year to Pecht from last year???  I guess it takes a nut to know one.  Oh yeah, Jones has also been Whitworth's leading scorer in 5 out of their nine games.  I like how you respond to only a very select few of the comments I make, at Gilby goes through pretty much point by point to argue with me...anyways, on to something more important that UPSoundLogs rambling.

QuoteGranted, he is one of the deadliest shooters on the West Coast, but teams can focus on that and take it away much easier if he does not put the ball on the floor.  All the attention he gets opens the floor up for guys like Pecht  and now Symes and Williams.

I have yet to see anyone double team him or even run some type of box and 1 on him, so I don't think this argument is as valid as it was last season.  And even last season Pecht was athletic enough that he created a lot of his own looks off the dribble, rather than Young being the one setting him up.  Young doesn't get nearly the attention he did during many games last year yet his teamates are putting up better numbers than they did last year.  This all goes back to me saying that Whitworth is better than they were last year, and last year they were a good team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 08, 2006, 01:30:07 AM
Arguing about ranking, or whether a team is better or worse than last year, is kind of pointless at this point.  Both are completely subjective.  Do I think Whitworth will end up being much better than last year?  Sure, but that really doesn't matter until they go out and either prove me right or wrong.

However, there are more concrete topics to discuss.  Both Whitworth and UPS have a chance to build solid QOWI scores heading into their first meeting of the season in Spokane next month.  The Pirates have in-region wins over Bethany Lutheran, Cal Lutheran, Whittier, Caltech, Pacific and L&C.  They have two games coming up against UCSC.  UPS has in-region wins over UCSC, Willamette and Fox, with games coming up against Whittier, La Verne and Chapman.  Both teams should be undefeated in-region heading into that first match up, with solid QOWI's.  That will be about the same time as the first regional rankings and both should be listed pretty highly. 

Based on the above, I think either team could have a good shot at an at-large berth this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 08, 2006, 02:35:53 AM
You are right Pinecone .  It's kind of funny that we find ourselves arguing over who is the better team and who is ranked too high or too low this early.  The season will tell the tale, but I also think based on regional record and how good each team can be that UPS and WW finally get into the post season together, although I am not counting Willamette or LC out yet considering if they get hot at the right time each team is good enough to win two quick ones in the playoffs.  Unlikely, but not impossible...       
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2006, 02:42:53 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on December 08, 2006, 01:30:07 AMThe Pirates have in-region wins over Bethany Lutheran, Cal Lutheran, Whittier, Caltech, Pacific and L&C.

Wheaton is an in-region win as well for the Pirates. Legislation passed this summer at the NCAA Convention further divided D3 into four administrative regions. Region 4 consists of Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, and all points west. Any games or matches played within the administrative regions counts as an in-region game, so Illinois-based Wheaton and Washington-based Whitworth are now regional foes.

The old eight-region system of D3 men's basketball (Northeast, East, Middle Atlantic, Atlantic, South, Great Lakes, Midwest, and West) is still intact for evaluation purposes, so a game between a CCIW team from Illinois (Region 4) and an HCAC team from Indiana (Region 3) remains an in-region game because both of those leagues are part of the Midwest Region. And the 200-mile rule for regional games remains in effect as well. Of course, neither of those issues matters one bit to you NWC folks way out there in D3's frontier outpost, but I just thought I'd mention them in the interest of being thorough.  ;)

What this all does mean is that NWC coaches now have the additional option of going to places like Chicago, Wheaton, Washington (MO), North Central, and Elmhurst for tournaments and picking up some good games that'll count as regional competition.

You can always find out what games are regional and what games aren't by checking a team's schedule page here on D3hoops.com. Regional games are marked with asterisks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 08, 2006, 10:46:21 AM
Well, all I see is more whining from the Rat...oh well, not much new there I guess.  I think I'm done trying to help him, his rambling doesn't really deserve a reply.  I'm a little dissapointed in him I really thought we could have had something special :-[

Unfortunately there are no more conference games for a while, but in the mean time the logs are headed to Cali to hopefully pick up some in region wins as well as continue to dominate the SCIAC!  If the Loggers can take care of business down there and both WW and UPS continue to play well I think one of them getting an at large bid into the tourney won't be too far fetched.  Obviously there is still a long ways too go and we can't assume anything, but it never hurts to ponder ;)


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 08, 2006, 02:34:23 PM
SoundLogs,  I just want to give a formal good luck to UPS on their CA trip.  I don't think that anyone wants to relive last years playoff blunder when the SCIAC got two teams in.  WW had their chance at OXY losing a tough one, which probably would have gotten them in had they won  but I just see the NWC being much more competitive in the playoffs.  Also I was able to attend the first half of the Whitworth / Whittier game.  Whitworth played poorly and was ahead at half so hopefully no worries for you in that match up.  Whittier does however have a few good shooters who can't be left open.     
     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 08, 2006, 03:14:55 PM
Thanks bucs, your very right about not wanting to re-live last years tournament scenario.  Two SCIAC teams in the tourney is two too many in my opinion (although I realize atleast one must get in).  I don't want to be too confident because anything can happen, but the logs have had a very good track record against SCIAC teams in the past so I'm feeling pretty good about them winning three down south. 

What does WW have coming up? Aren't they going back to Cali again? I think I saw they were playing UCSC or something, in which case you guys will kill them.

Does anyone know if any NWC teams are playing big games out of league before we start back into conference play? 

Bcats-any word on Stuvland's situation?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 09, 2006, 01:34:23 AM
Okay NW conference fans we have had our opening weekend of conference games and all I see are a bunch of posts about rankings and strong wins and for some odd reason the playoffs.  Gosh one poll and its a March sandbox.  Is it February already?   I think that is when we might mention the p word with significance (p word = playoff, for you pinecone..jk). 

All NW conference wins against anybody outside of conference is good for the conference, of course, some are better but than others but who cares about Nov. polls when you lose on the road to a conference team that is 2-6 in late January.  Conference records and Conference tourney are 95 percent of your grade as far back as I can track for the NWC when it comes to end of year invites.

Congrats to WW, UPS, LC, and yes even PLU and the other teams that have started strong or looked good.  I will look forward to reading posts about players, coaches and teams performances in the preseason games.  I enjoy reading about how a player dominated a game or just plain stunk up the gym.  If a team had a monster comeback like LC did in Hawaii or pressed a point guard to 10+ TO's.  Anyway..fire away.  And of course, Go Pirates (Bucs) if you are listening to WW come out of a timeout. 



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 11, 2006, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on December 08, 2006, 01:30:07 AM
Arguing about ranking, or whether a team is better or worse than last year, is kind of pointless at this point.  Both are completely subjective.  Do I think Whitworth will end up being much better than last year?  Sure, but that really doesn't matter until they go out and either prove me right or wrong.

However, there are more concrete topics to discuss. 
Quote from: bucs77 on December 08, 2006, 02:35:53 AM
You are right Pinecone .  It's kind of funny that we find ourselves arguing over who is the better team and who is ranked too high or too low this early.     

Well it looks like our discussion about the WW ranking is definitely beneath this board.  Good try UPSoundLogs and Rat at trying to get some lively discussion going.  It was fun while it lasted.

Good luck to all the NWC over the Christmas break.  Can I say go PLU?  Possible contender for the 3rd spot?   Any thoughts?
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 11, 2006, 05:01:14 PM
Finally got a chance to see the Bearcats on Friday night...and while they gave up a ton of points, they were impressive offensively, beating concordia 96-93...(they followed that with a 66-51 victory over SOU the next day that I wasn't at)...

The new faces for WU, Danny Nugent and Michael Smith, were very good, with Nugent going for 28 and 8...Andrus played well of the bench, and Plank was solid at the "1"...Mansfield and McClary also battled all night in the paint...

While their problem areas are pretty obvious (taking care of the ball and getting some kind of defensive effort), they're fun to watch, and with some adjustments (and additions) I have not yet lost faith in their ability to make the NWC tournament...

Oh, and it was a GREAT crowd Friday...loud and standing the whole game...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 11, 2006, 05:07:29 PM
Bearcats,
     Do you think that the addition of Stuvland and Fife will at all hurt the flow of the team.  I.e. Nugent.   I would guess that it might take some practices and a game or two before Nugent and the others get used to shooting a lot less.  I would guess about 20 shots per game between Stuv and fife?  Glad to hear that the crowd was roaring.  AS far as I've heard WW had a roaring crowd of about 10-15 parents and family of the referees in their win over UCSC.

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 11, 2006, 06:27:08 PM
Gil- I'm glad that someone can appreciate a little friendly argueing on this board, I actually thought it was mildly entertaining...hopefully the rat would agree.  We haven't heard from him in a couple days though, should we be worried?

Anywho, to answer your question about PLU(hey that rythmes)....I think it is ok to tell them good luck, I don't think there's much room for two championship contenders in Tacoma this year but I'm not above throwing a friendly "go get em boys!" in the Lutes direction.  I really don't see them being a contender for the 3rd playoff spot, they've been in the basement of the league for the last few years, but you never know.

Actually I would like a little info on their team.  Unfortuantely no PLU fans have made their way on the board yet, but if they keep winning I have a feeling it won't be long until we hear from someone.  Does anyone know why they are all of a sudden winning? New coaching maybe? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 11, 2006, 10:41:21 PM
Don't worry I didn't go anywhere...and believe me, I have just as much fun as you guys on this board.  Glad to hear nobody is taking anything too seriously...unlike a certain diehard Cat fan from the Harbor.  Anyways, Whitworth took a trip down to Santa Cruz and had a basketball game (if thats what you wanna call it) with the banana slugs in the carckerbox they call a gym.  They only took 9 players but all of them played generously, and contirbuted in the W (76-52).  Young tied his single game three point record with 7, but thats about all I know because the stats haven't been posted yet.  From what I hear the Pirates played a poor first half, but were still up 19.  I guess UCSC is that bad.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 14, 2006, 05:47:41 PM
Noticing a bit of a lag on the board, but I guess that's to be expected during a break like we have coming up.  Heard that the WW/UCSC game was extremely boring.  Also heard from a few people that the gym was really odd with the back wall being made of solid concrete.  Wierd.   Good luck to all NWC teams over the break.  Looks like UPS will have somewhat of a tough trip playing away from home against pretty good competition,  I think Chapman will be your biggest challenge though.  WW is off until a reunion game with UCSC on Jan. 2,  Unless you count the alumni game which is always fun to watch...yawn.  What are some overall thoughts/predictions on the league as we enter league play?  My prediction is still  UPS/Willamette/WW in the top three, probably not in that order, but I see Pacific making a faint challenge for the 3 spot.  I would have said PLU because of their earl wins, but correct me if I'm wrong, until they lost to Port. St.  they had not played any competition.  Thats about it,  good luck once again and Merry Christmas!!!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 15, 2006, 05:29:39 PM
Yes, its true the board has gotten pretty boring during this break in games.  I really don't have much to say, I just wanted to stop by and give Bucs some company(hey buddy).

By the way, does anyone now what the Karma-meter is all about?  Am I a bad person because I have negative Karma?  I notice Bucs is at -4 and he's one of the most charming guys on the board...What's the deal?  All I know is that my self esteem is gonna take a nose dive if my karma gets much lower :-\...I guess I'll have to make some serious New Years resolutions!!!

Good luck to everyone over the Xmas break, especially UPS on its Cali trip...we gotta take care of those SCIAC teams in the early going if we even want to think about getting into the tourney(Example: Whitworth last year). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on December 18, 2006, 07:00:04 PM
UPSoundlogs,

Tis the season, so I gave you some + karma. Once you hit 200 posts you gain the power of giving + or - Karma. I wouldn't let it get to me. Touchdowntommy has -650 karma.

It looks to be another fun year in the NWC. From what I can see, any one can win on any given night. Makes for fun Basketball. I guess will see real soon.

everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year!

Or as Joel Presbella(sp) from the Portland Trail Blazers said last year before a home game " I hope every one has a Happy Christmas" ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 19, 2006, 10:48:17 AM
Tuxguy,

I appreciate you throwing a little Karma my way, I feel much better about myself going into the holiday season...did I mention Linfield is great at bask...I mean Football  ;).  Can I have some more karma for the compliment?  Geez, I can't wait to have that kind of power.

Merry Xmas!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 19, 2006, 01:14:48 PM
Haha
I'm with you Sound,  I'm gonna start posting like a mad man.  And anybody who is looking for a last minute gift idea for me.  I'd like some Karma with a side of Karma.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2006, 04:07:08 AM
Wow -- just checked back into this board for the first time in a couple weeks (been busy with the Stagg Bowl) and was surprised to see what is basically whining about a jump in the poll by Whitworth that makes the entire conference look good.

UPS fans -- lose the sour grapes. Beat Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 21, 2006, 10:37:27 AM
hmmmmmmmmmm....I'm pretty sure if you looked closely you would see that most everyone has expressed their happiness for two ranked NWC teams.  I know this guy is!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 21, 2006, 12:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2006, 04:07:08 AM
Wow -- just checked back into this board for the first time in a couple weeks (been busy with the Stagg Bowl) and was surprised to see what is basically whining about a jump in the poll by Whitworth that makes the entire conference look good.


REALLY, PAT??? ???.....

Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 12:05:59 AM
I am not complaining too much though, I am all for respect for the NWC on the national level even if the logic behind it may seem a little off.
Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 07:46:03 PM
I hate to do this as I am a NWC fan and want to see the conference succeed on the national scene.   However, this is a discussion board so let's discuss.
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 12:03:20 PM
I think Gil has a legit point in questioning how Whitworth could have possibly jumped 10 spots in one week ??? I'm also pretty confused on how that could have happened ???  However, I'm all for the NWC having success on the national level (yes, even if it is WW)...and I think G Sager had a clear cut explaination that makes good sense, his use of the word "fluidity" in discribing the young seasons rankings really topped it off for me, I just can't argue with that.

Pat, Pat, Pat,  Someone may be jumping the gun and getting a little sensitive....maybe a little authorship pride regarding their top 25 poll?? I cannot lie, I expected a little more from the "D3sports.com Guru Administrator All American," with 5 Stars I might add.

I just want to say on behalf of the whining side of the discussion board, we love the poll as it gives us something else to discuss.  We did not mean for the discussion about it to get to you.

In fact, I like it so much that if I was able to, I would give you 1000+ Pixie Dust or Karma or whatever it is people can give each other if having sufficient posts.  So since I cannot I will give you this:

To: Pat Coleman

+10,000 Lucky Charms

From: Gil the "Whiner"

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

(Hope this makes you feel better!!)
But please take my comments with a grain of salt...I am only Junior Varsity.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 21, 2006, 12:57:10 PM
Pat,

Seeing how I have -karma and it is the holiday season I was wondering if you could share some of the +10,000 Lucky Charms that Gil just gifted to you.  I know its a lot to ask and Lucky Charms are very hard to come by, but I figured it couldn't hurt to try.  After all you do have +10,000 Lucky Charms!!!  PLEEEEEAAAAASE?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 22, 2006, 11:50:02 AM
After being down by twenty at halftime the loggers somehow fought their way back to win by 6 in OT against Chapman.  I wasn't at the game so I wouldn't know, but that couldn't have been pretty to watch.  On a positive note, they did complete a 3-0 Cali trip that puts them in great shape to return to conference play. 

I've noticed around the league that WU got back on track with a couple nice wins, Whitworth has stayed right where they were(having played only 1 game and winning), Whitman got a great win against Biola a very good NIAI 1 team for there first win of the season ???, GFU dropped a couple, and PLU dropped back down to earth with a couple losses after there 4-0 start (it was only a matter of time :D). 

I don't know about the rest of you on this board but I'm ready to watch some more NWC games, its been a long break.

Merry Xmas

P.S. All I want for xmas is a better karma rating and some +Lucky Charms from P Coleman!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 01:45:19 PM
I'm just pointing out that in most conferences this wouldn't be a sour grapes situation -- the ones who are a little more experienced in Division III realize that having a team in the poll is a good thing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 22, 2006, 04:26:04 PM
Impressive win for the Loggers last night, coming back from 20 points down on the road.  I am guessing that Chapman gained an early advantage by scouting the ULV and Whittier games and working up a good game plan.  But they couldn't handle the pressure for all 40 minutes, it just wears most teams down.

It's going to be a heck of a race this year.

Still trying to figure out Pacific.  Part of being a young team, but they handled CLU easily on the road, then lost at La Sierra.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 22, 2006, 04:45:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 01:45:19 PM
I'm just pointing out that in most conferences this wouldn't be a sour grapes situation -- the ones who are a little more experienced in Division III realize that having a team in the poll is a good thing.

Pat-

Wait a minute....you are telling me the Top 25 poll estimates how good at basketball one D3 team is relative to all others because of the impossibility of every team playing one another in aims of truly defining a teams standing based on record alone? And in following your logic, with 1 being the best ranking in the Top 25, for Whitworth to be in the 8 position would suggest that they are good; since WW is in the NWC that would suggest that the NWC is good, and despite D3 tournament selections to be supposedly "objective," based on conference title, in region D3 competition, and other D3 competition, for the NWC conference to be suggested as "good" by the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll would weigh in heavily on the selection committees conscience in selecting at large bids, possibly giving the NWC a better shot at one of those bids (Even though in the end, dollars tend to dictate those type of decisions)........

Oh okay, thanks Pat.  I was sitting in my cave here in the Northwest, new to the whole horseless carriage, talking box, fire stick, and Division 3 hoops thing, lost in a fast paced world trying to find my way west in hopes of more fertile land.  Somehow I became misguided along the way and was under the impression the Top 25 was a beauty contest and was angry that my boys down in Pacific were not getting there just dues because they had been doing their calf raises all Summer...

HOWEVER, because of you Pat, and your clarity, I am now ahead of my time, as are all of us NWC "newbies."  It should have taken us at least 20 more years to reach this epiphany, realizing that NWC teams in the Top 25 are good for the entire conference.  So on behalf of all NWC posters:  Thank You Pat!!!!

And for your efforts: +500 Lucky Charms

(Read Reply #531; If you are going to read this board, please do it with at least some level of detail. There are no sour grapes about WW's ranking and are clearly overall happy with it...We just felt like DISCUSSING the mystical 10 spot jump)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 07:08:26 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 12:03:20 PM
I think Gil has a legit point in questioning how Whitworth could have possibly jumped 10 spots in one week ??? I'm also pretty confused on how that could have happened ??? 

Despite other parts of this post that try to back away from that, this is what I was referring to as sour grapes. It smacks of a UPS fan jealous that Whitworth got a big bump in the poll.

If I could get through the first graf of your post, Gilbert, I might respond, but I suppose it's not worthy trying to decipher.

And yes, I read 531. Hope you understand that I am citing my sources here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 02:35:27 PM
HaHaHaHaHa :D

I think P Coleman needs to be introducted to Quoting 101.  Your last post is hilarious buddy, I love your interpretations.

I might as well have said...

George W. Bush is and idiot, he hasn't done a single good thing since he has been in office!  His father however, is a great man!

Pat would interpret this quote as...

George W. Bush... is a great man!

Pat would think...

Geez, UPSoundlogs must really love George W. Bush! :D

My point is...It's pretty easy to prove your right when you only take a piece of the puzzle, good try though P, I like your style.  Maybe you should run for president some day! :D

Whatever Pat wants to see through his "Pat Goggles" thats fine with me. I'm all for Whitworth being in the top ten, I love that the NWC is getting more respect nationally with two teams in the top 25 and I can't wait for WW and UPS to meet in Conference, it's gonna be a great game!  However, I'm never gonna stop supporting UPS and debating back and forth with other NWC fans on the board.  It's all in good fun...as long as you don't take it too seriously.

Merry Xmas!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 02:38:19 PM
Hmm, no, I took words that you said consecutively. I didn't chop you up to make you say something you didn't. Now, if you didn't mean what you said, perhaps it would have been wise to not have said it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 03:07:40 PM

"Now, if you didn't mean what you said, perhaps it would have been wise to not have said it." -Pcoleman

YIKES!!! Don't take yourself so seriously buddy! ;D SMILE!!! 

Are you gonna tell me not to chew with my mouth full next?

It's OK to not have anything of value to say.  Just go ahead...take a deep breath... and avoid the erge to post it.  You don't need to leave a life leason for me on this message board.   This is a basketball site, the last thing I need is the P-Man(my personal posting hero ;)) acting like a scolding school marm.  I could go to Catholic bording school if I wanted that!

Now get back out there and post like the champion I know you are!

Pat, be all that you can be!!! I believe in you ;D

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 23, 2006, 04:23:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 07:08:26 PM
If I could get through the first graf of your post, Gilbert, I might respond, but I suppose it's not worthy trying to decipher.


WOOH WOOH WOOH...the fun police have struck again!!

Pat has blessed our board!!!

I am not going to lie, my vocabulary did not extend to the eloquence of the word graf, so I was forced to look it up on dictionary.com:

Graf   (grāf, gräf)  Pronunciation Key     
German tennis player who in 1988 won the Grand Slam (Wimbledon, French, U.S., and Australian titles) and an Olympic gold medal.

Either way, I will take it in context and assume you meant graf to be something confusing or unclear.  Well Pat, that entire first portion of my post was a sarcastic way of conveying that it is silly of you to think that we over in the NWC do not have an adequate understanding of the D3 system, and where your Top 25 poll fits into the "big picture," simply because we are relatively new to D3.  We understand quite well how things work and over the past 6 years, enjoyed seeing LC, WW, and especially UPS take strides in putting our conference consistently on the national stage.  Now that we are on the poll (insert Taladega Nights joke here), we just felt compelled to take a critical perspective, instead of throwing a party because Pat Coleman's D3hoops poll mentioned our conference (that was hinted with sarcasm just to be clear).

Nice analogy, UPSoundLogs, but I think you should run for President against Pat.

Not impressed with this round Pat.....+0 Lucky Charms

I really think you should hang it up on this issue....you are just not going to win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 04:32:21 PM
Sorry -- when I took Quoting 101 graf became journalistic shorthand for "paragraph." I'm at my day job and definitely in the journalist mind-set at the moment.

Pardon me, however, for trying to understand the Northwest Conference. I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 23, 2006, 04:55:04 PM
'Logs:

Had you attended a "Catholic bording [sic!] school," you would doubtless be a better speller than shown in your post above.  ;) 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 23, 2006, 05:02:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 04:32:21 PM
I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well.

Good idea, Pat, and perhaps worth doing ....  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 05:16:56 PM
"Pardon me, however, for trying to understand the Northwest Conference. I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well." -P Coleman

I appreciate you trying to understand the NWC, we are pretty confusing over here.  If you have any further questions I would be glad to help you out if I can.  However, I think I might take you a little more seriously, in your quest to understand the NWC, if you didn't start out by telling us we are sour grapes(or is it just me?)

We enjoy your company over here and it would be a shame to allow your frustrations with two Jr. Varsity posters to interfer with your participating on our board...or even more... turning your back on our entire conference; as you mentioned(bold statement ???).    I think Gil would agree with me that we believed you to be a little more thick skinned and able to participate in a good old fashioned busting of the chops.  However, don't allow our antics to bring you down and certainly don't become too offended to come back and join us at any time of your choosing.  

Have a very Merry Xmas P-man!  I'll even throw +500 Lucky Charms in your stocking ;D.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 05:36:54 PM
Oh Hello Warren, you sure came in here with your guns ablazin!!!

  You must be the annoying side kick that tries to be funny but never is.  Thanks for the spelling comment, I've never heard that one before...I wish I could find original ways like that to make fun of people.  It always hurts to make fun of spelling errors, I'm just not sure how I can possibly get you back now. 

If we really were in a catholic boarding school I would probably give you a wedgie after lunch or something like that, but since you are a "Hale of fahmer" (I forgot how to spell that?) I'll just take it easy on you for your first visit to our board. 

Welcome, I hope you didn't bring any sour grapes with you they are frowned upon here in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 23, 2006, 06:17:14 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 04:32:21 PM
Sorry -- when I took Quoting 101 graf became journalistic shorthand for "paragraph." I'm at my day job and definitely in the journalist mind-set at the moment.

Pardon me, however, for trying to understand the Northwest Conference. I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well.

My concept of whats going on is not so misconstrued that I cannot take a step back and admit when I jumped the gun a little.  I was unaware of journalist shorthand as I have no journalism experience.  Point taken.  My bad on the "graf" comment.

Pat do you realize who you are? Let me repeat it for you:

You are Pat Coleman, the D3sports.com Guru Administrator All-American, Publisher of d3hoops.com, d3football.com (and that's it no other sports).  You have over 15,000+ posts, +250 Karma....and shoot your stars are even better looking than everyone elses.

Putting all sarcasm aside for one moment in my life, I am under the assumption that you are an important position in the d3hoops.com world, being a publisher and all, and with that comes the need for a certain level of professionalism.  For you to make as irrational a comment as "I guess I could ignore your teams as well," reminds me of the little kid who won't let everyone play with his basketball unless he gets to be captain. Come on Pat, you are better than that.  It is really dissapointing that someone responsible for national D3 hoops coverage would even threaten to let a PUBLIC DISCUSSION effect the way in which he does his job.  I hope that this is not a reflection of how the rest of D3hoops.com conducts business.  Either way I am not worried, as NWC play should speak for itself regardless of Pat Coleman coverage or not.

I am sorry that we did not just bow to your almighty comments when you came on our board and actually had responses to you when you came out calling us whiners and accusing us of having "sour grapes." So yes, actually commenting back is how we do things in the Northwest Conference.

As for Warren, well I am just dissapointed that UPSoundLogs even paid you any attention at all.  You come onto our board talking about spelling, and piggybacking Pat and that is it?  I just hope you guys are really good friends or you want a job at D3hoops.com or something, because otherwise, you presence here just does not make sense....But hey, who could resist a good wedgie comment.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 23, 2006, 06:20:54 PM
Oh yeah....-15 Lucky Charms for both of you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 07:03:01 PM
Well, shoot, I could judge anyone to be anything if I only read .03% of their 15,000 posts.

Don't make judgments about me. You have no idea. Thanks. You're wasting a lot of virtual breath talking about me for no real reason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 23, 2006, 09:57:02 PM
"So you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout!  I'm tellin' you why.  Santa Claus is coming to town!"

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas all.

Peace on Earth and Good Will toward everyone!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fosheezie on December 26, 2006, 12:10:35 AM
Is Pat threatening to go home with his ball and not let anyone play....dont worry NWC fans, I have posting in the SCIAC board for years and have realized that Pat is a big cry baby when anyone questions his posts.  Like you said earlier Pat, "take things on the posting board with a grain of salt!"  Be an athletic supporter not a cry baby!

Merry Christmas Pat!

Go Pacific Bulldogs! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 26, 2006, 01:24:31 AM
Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 22, 2006, 04:45:02 PM

Pat-

Wait a minute....you are telling me the Top 25 poll estimates how good at basketball one D3 team is relative to all others because of the impossibility of every team playing one another in aims of truly defining a teams standing based on record alone? And in following your logic, with 1 being the best ranking in the Top 25, for Whitworth to be in the 8 position would suggest that they are good; since WW is in the NWC that would suggest that the NWC is good, and despite D3 tournament selections to be supposedly "objective," based on conference title, in region D3 competition, and other D3 competition, for the NWC conference to be suggested as "good" by the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll would weigh in heavily on the selection committees conscience in selecting at large bids, possibly giving the NWC a better shot at one of those bids (Even though in the end, dollars tend to dictate those type of decisions)........

(Read Reply #531; If you are going to read this board, please do it with at least some level of detail. There are no sour grapes about WW's ranking and are clearly overall happy with it...We just felt like DISCUSSING the mystical 10 spot jump)

Not that I care, since I'm only a WIACer who lurks around the NWC only when a fellow WIAC team plays a NWC team, usually in the NCAA tourney.

The criteria for selecting at-large bids is objective, such as in-region record, the old SOSI (strength of schedule index:  they use something similar to that now), records against ranked opponents (the NCAA ranking, not the d3hoops ranking) and other secondary critieria...while the actual selection is subjective.  I'm not going to insult your intelligence here, or any other NWCer here, but there is a "round table" selection process that determines who's selected and who isn't.  From what I gather, though dollars dictate WHERE a selected team plays, I don't believe dollars dictate WHO is selected.  They don't pick one team over another team because it's cheaper for the NCAA...however, they choose to fly one team to another team's place for cost purposes.  The NCAA does not look at the d3hoops poll to get an idea of who is good and who isn't.  They have their own poll for that.  The regular season conference title doesn't mean anything.  If you win the conference tourney, you get the AQ, unless a league doesn't have one (like the AAU, I believe).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Observation Deck on December 26, 2006, 01:46:15 AM
You've been posting for years? With one post a month?

Not sure I would take you very seriously at 73 posts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 11:42:09 AM
Quote from: fosheezie on December 26, 2006, 12:10:35 AM
Is Pat threatening to go home with his ball and not let anyone play

I never said anything about shutting down the board. That would be the equivalent of taking the ball and going home. I am most definitely leaving them the ball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 26, 2006, 01:15:38 PM
Quote from: The Observation Deck on December 26, 2006, 01:46:15 AM
You've been posting for years? With one post a month?

Not sure I would take you very seriously at 73 posts.

In no one's defense at all, there are a good number of posters who are very knowledgeable that don't post very often..and on the other hand, there are a lot of posters who post a lot that don't know anything!  ??? ::) ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 26, 2006, 02:59:26 PM
Geez I leave for a couple days and our board comes to life!  I like!

Old School-
I think you have more d3hoops knowledge than is healthy for any one human being to possess.  I'm slightly intimidated to ask you any questions, but if I ever think of a good one you are the first person I'm asking!  I appreciate the insight you bring to the table...its good stuff. 

Fosheezie-
So Pat has created trouble on your board as well huh?  Hmmmm...I'm beginning to get the feeling he is not the most liked poster around.  Being that I'm new to the d3board I don't want to create any judgement calls too early in the game.   With that said, 15,000 posts is a lot of whining!!!  Even if it is only..."Virtual breath(The Pman) ???"  Sorry i judged...oops!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 26, 2006, 04:31:39 PM
Old School-
Appreciate the comments, and the respectful approach.  It looks like you could have ripped me a little harder with the level detail regarding the selection process that you possess, but yet showed restraint.  Good lesson...you must have watched Jet Li's Fearless on Christmas as well.

I understand the gist of the selection process, and the comment you were referencing was a sarcastic rant in the middle of a much larger discourse between Pat, UPSoundLogs, myself and some other late comer...I forget.  However, I will not claim to know the process as fully as you do.  What I was trying to convey was that no matter how clearly guidelines are put forth in anything such as selection faced by the D3 comittee, there are other "factors," unaccounted for, that probably sneak their way in and create some influence and possibly decide some close calls.  I was suggesting that such things might consist of polls such as D3hoops, money, connections...you know humanistic type things that cannot be separated from the process even if mandated.

Just so you don't think I am totally unfounded with this whole money deal, look at last years at large SCIAC selection: Occidental. I know there was a lot to it, and I am unsure of all the wins and losses involved, but I know the committee had the choice between a 20-6 NWC team, WW, with the 6th loss coming in the conference tournament, or a 19-5 SCIAC team.  On its face, it may seem that the prospect of flying WW to southern CA may have been taken into account or at least broke the tie, if there was one. I am not sure. Either way, it is just a general speculation and am just trying to explain an earlier comment.  I AM NOT TRYING TO OPEN THAT CAN OF WORMS. (meaning whether or not Oxy should have got an at large as opposed to WW last year...so don't try and reel me in)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2006, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 26, 2006, 02:59:26 PM
So Pat has created trouble on your board as well huh?  Hmmmm...I'm beginning to get the feeling he is not the most liked poster around.  Being that I'm new to the d3board I don't want to create any judgement calls too early in the game.   With that said, 15,000 posts is a lot of whining!!!  Even if it is only..."Virtual breath(The Pman) ???"  Sorry i judged...oops!

Webmeister Pat doesn't "create" trouble, but he commonly has to deal with trouble-makers in various rooms.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 26, 2006, 05:20:55 PM
Warren-

You don't really deserve a comment from anybody, but I just wanted to point out that you have made it painfully clear my first predictions about you were correct!  You are nothing more than the P-man's unfunny sidekick, I'm embarrassed for you.  At least Pat forms his own opinions and thoughts,  I may disagree with him but can still respect his views and knowledge.  You have made two posts on this board that have offered absolutely no value or opinion other than to unsuccesfully try to stick up for your master P-Coleman.  I can assure you Pat is more than capable of taking care of himself, you are free to go back and lie down in your kennel like a good dog. 

Gil-
You watched Fearless too?  Jet Li is my favorite! It kind of reminds me of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon with all the dancing and the magic!!! :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2006, 05:34:45 PM
Woof, woof, Pat. Want me to roll over? If I do, will you give me a dog biscuit?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 26, 2006, 05:47:43 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 26, 2006, 02:59:26 PM
Old School-
I think you have more d3hoops knowledge than is healthy for any one human being to possess.  I'm slightly intimidated to ask you any questions, but if I ever think of a good one you are the first person I'm asking!  I appreciate the insight you bring to the table...its good stuff. 

I appreciate the kind words.  However, there are many posters who know a lot more than I do! ;D...so, don't feel intimidated! lol.

Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 26, 2006, 04:31:39 PM
Old School-
Appreciate the comments, and the respectful approach.  It looks like you could have ripped me a little harder with the level detail regarding the selection process that you possess, but yet showed restraint.  Good lesson…you must have watched Jet Li’s Fearless on Christmas as well.

I stopped "being in fights" awhile ago!  Or at least I try to avoid them.  Jet Li's Fearless isn't too bad.

As for Oxy getting in instead of Whitworth...I know you don't want to open up that can of worms again, but it might have to do with the fact that Oxy beat Whitworth during the season...that seems to go a long way.  ;) (they also had a higher Quality of Wins Index (SOSI)...

Anyway...back to your NWC banter.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 06:13:07 PM
Indeed, the key numbers on Oxy/Whitworth from last season:

Occidental    9.750 QOWI/SOSI, .750 regional winning pct., head-to-head win
Whitworth    9.542 QOWI/SOSI, .750 regional winning pct., head-to-head loss
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 26, 2006, 06:16:42 PM
Quote from: Old School on December 26, 2006, 05:47:43 PM

As for Oxy getting in instead of Whitworth...I know you don't want to open up that can of worms again, but it might have to do with the fact that Oxy beat Whitworth during the season...that seems to go a long way.  ;) (they also had a higher Quality of Wins Index (SOSI)...

Anyway...back to your NWC banter.

Exactly why I did not want to open that can of worms...I knew I did not know exactly what I was getting into.  Point taken.  Thank you for the clarification.  Looks like my money argument is officially dead for now.

Now that situation is coming back to me...I think there was discussion that Claremont winning that conference that made the WW case for an at large bid really weak, and  that if Oxy won that conference WW might have had a legit shot....Good stuff.


Quote from: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2006, 05:34:45 PM
Woof, woof, Pat. Want me to roll over? If I do, will you give me a dog biscuit?

Warren-
I hope you are being sarcastic.  I think the worst part about it is that we are not sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 06:56:57 PM
Warren has been on the boards for about eight years now and got his Hall of Fame status by being the voice of reason on many boards when they have needed one. I appreciate the help and hope the newbie posters would have a little more respect.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2006, 07:09:19 PM
Pat, thanks for your kind words. Yet maybe we should cut the northwest posters just a little slack. After all, it's always raining up there, and that surely must affect their judgement, sensitivity, and civility.  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 26, 2006, 10:07:08 PM
Pat and Old School,
      While I think that for the most part selection is fair (example WW and oxy last year WW lost to oxy by 1 and even though they won their last 10 in a row and oxy lost 3 of 5, oxy beat them.) But I think money shows where in the 2002-2003 season when 23-3 whitworth who won their league had to go to gustavus adolphus who didnt win their league and went 22-6 and ranked lower in the region.  The next game was going to be played in Wisconsin so it was cheaper to make WW play an away game even though they had earned a home contest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 10:12:36 PM
I can't argue with you there. The pairings and site selection process sucks sometimes.

More disappointing, the NCAA didn't even tell Whitworth why they had done this. They had to find out from me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 26, 2006, 10:46:30 PM
Well we do appreciate it, but it seems that NWC fans are not as educated in all of these dealings as back east.  I guess we are not around it( physically)  and are too busy looking out the window at the rainy weather wondering if we might make the post season and singing songs of hope throughout the mountains.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 27, 2006, 02:06:06 AM
Leave Warren alone.

He sits on the other side of the scale to balance the rest of us LINFIELD posters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 27, 2006, 07:32:46 AM
I just stumbled across this discussion and i have to ask you a question.  Are you guys out of your #UCKING minds?  Insulting WARREN?

Warren was on this site when you guys were in diapers.  He has seen more basketball than 95% of the posters here.  If he and Pat agree on an issue, then they are probably right.  Insult most folks if you want to.  It may be rude, but it's ok.  But if you see a guy with Hall of Famer and nearly 80 karma points, you are dealing with a legend.

As for Pat, He gives you guys the opportunity to play here.  He is fuklly within his rights to be grumpy now and then.  He works like 10 hours a day at a real job then puts in abouth 8 or 10 providing content for the D3 sites.  For you guys to attack him shows zero class.

Finally, the selection system is not a real good on, but it was right last year on the Whit- Oxy deal.

Best,

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 02:13:14 PM
To the poster whose post was just removed -- you might want to rethink your contribution to the board. Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 27, 2006, 02:53:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 02:13:14 PM
To the poster whose post was just removed -- you might want to rethink your contribution to the board. Thanks.

Pat-

That is pretty outrageous to delete my post.  It had absolutely no profanity, nor rose close to the level of insult by calling a whole group of people "out of their #ucking minds" as C did in an earlier comment still on the board.  Every single point I made was either backed by prior posts or with some other evidentiary means.  It did not come out of "left field" and was a RESPONSE to C's post.  Could you please let me know the rules on posting so I do not waste time on getting another response deleted?  Please let me know if this is the D3hoops.com board, the Pat Coleman board, or if the two one in the same.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 27, 2006, 02:55:19 PM
I will admit that in my 8 years of postin, that is the first time i have been moved to profanity.  Sometimes ignorance angers me beyond good sense.

I apologize for my language but not the sentiment behind it.  You guys need to get a clue.

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Observation Deck on December 27, 2006, 03:20:30 PM
If it was the post with the excessive insulting of Hall of Fame posters, you can blame me. I used the little report to moderator link and brought it to their attention.

You should have a little more common sense than that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 27, 2006, 03:30:17 PM
All I can say is, Freedom of speech RIP :-\!!!

I had the chance to read Gil's post before it was deleted and it was in no way as insulting as the one left by Coach C who is a "Hall of Famer" ???.  If anything C's post should have been erased for the use of profanity, which in my opinion, there is no room for on this board.    

However, that is beside the point.  

It's discouraging to know that comments have been taken too personally on this board, to the point of being erased.  Pat I have respect for you and your knowledge of bball and I appreciate the time you have put into d3hoops.com, same goes for Old School, Warren...etc.  Its just too bad, we had to stoop to this(censuring) on a message board designed for debate!  There were no personal attacks made until C dropped by, yet the "Jr. Varsity" posters are the ones being censured ???  It simply isn't justified.

I will certainly re-think speaking my mind when replying to a "Hall of Famer" in the future, hopefully they will do the same when they decide to make an off color remark on this Page, Even though I am only a "JV" poster.  My intent is not to step on any toes, I'm here to have a good time discussing basketball and anything else that may arise within these discussions.  I don't attack other posters until they have attacked me ;D

Here's to not taking yourself too seriously....cheers :D ;D ;)

Logs
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 27, 2006, 03:42:38 PM
There weren't any personal attacks before I showed up?

Maybe you should read back a bit.

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 04:14:27 PM
To save the trouble, since you like me to cite sources:

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 26, 2006, 05:20:55 PM
You are nothing more than the P-man's unfunny sidekick ... you are free to go back and lie down in your kennel like a good dog. 

Quote from: fosheezie on December 26, 2006, 12:10:35 AM
Be an athletic supporter not a cry baby!

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 05:36:54 PM
You must be the annoying side kick that tries to be funny but never is.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 27, 2006, 05:04:18 PM
In an effort to take some steps in the right direction, I have decided not to speak my mind with regards to the last couple of posts.  I am just happy that we have such inspiring "Hall of Famers" to look up to and that they have graced us with their company here on the NWC board!!! I hope to follow their lead and be the best poster that I can be, to set the example for future generations of posters.  I would like to thank Pat for his very personal "PM" ;) and Coach C for his beautiful analysis and language on this board.  I just hope that some day, I to, can be on your level! 

Logs

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Observation Deck on December 27, 2006, 05:24:02 PM
Probably not a bad idea, considering you posted yourself into a corner with your denial of the truth.

If you ever leave this board and look around I would bet you'd find all sorts of interesting things these people are saying. But if you're locked in your own world here you will get a very limited view.

Expand your mind. D3 is big. There's a lot you could learn if you were interested.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 27, 2006, 07:53:04 PM
"Expand your mind. D3 is big. There's a lot you could learn if you were interested."  O-Deck

Wait...you mean to tell me that there is more to D3hoops than just the NWC post up board?  Are you sure ??? ...I had no idea!!!  I'm so excited now, I wish I could have expanded my mind sooner.   O-Deck you've saved me!!!  Now all I have to do is figure out what buttons to push so I can get there, hopefully I can run into another "hall of famer" to help me on my way.  You guys are so nice!  Helpful too! 
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 08:48:55 PM
Wow! when did the NWC board get so heated.  Everyone needs to calm down a bit. US NWCers need to conduct ourselves with a bit more class, but those "hall of famers" need to cut us a bit of slack as well.

Warren please don't use the "he works at a real job and then puts in time at d3sports out of the goodness of his heart" routine on us.  In case you haven't noticed there are advertisements all over d3 sports, which means that as an administrator he gets paid The more hits your site gets a day, the more you can charge as a flat rate and per click.  Those ads aren't given away.  I completely support it though.  I'm not saying that Pat is in it for the money because as we know that is not why anyone becomes involved with d3 sports.  I'm just saying that he has more of a stake in it than the rest of us.  More is expected of him and he does deliver.  I thank him for all he does. 

Now back to the NWC as we should be talking about........  Who is with me that UPS and WW get in it this year.  I will bet 10 karma points that both get in and that they split during the league season.  The real question is who will be the third place team.  Honestly I have NO idea!  I don't think anyone else is good enough to get into the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 27, 2006, 08:56:21 PM
Quote from: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 08:48:55 PM
Warren please don't use the "he works at a real job and then puts in time at d3sports out of the goodness of his heart" routine on us. 

Hey, bucs:

That quote above isn't mine. Find a different target, please.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
my mistake I was lokking toward Coach..  And once again not looking to find a target, but how about this....Don't post on the board unless you are talking NWC basketball.  We talk UPS, Whitworth, Whitman, Willamette, PLU, Pacific, Linfield, Lewis and Clark, and George Fox. 
Lets end it there and get back to why the boards were created. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 09:31:55 PM
And for Warren, Stick to your railroad history please
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 09:50:36 PM
If I might be allowed to respond before the embargo goes into effect:

The message board is a loss leader in terms of advertising revenue. They're the lowest-paying ads on the site, and that's not unusual as the Net goes. The click rate is pretty low on a board. But we need a board, so we take the hit. We do fine lately in other parts of the site.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 10:31:59 PM
See thats what I'm talking about.   I was wondering about that and now I know.  You need the board to keep other areas of ad revenue high that makes sense.   Thank you Pat for the information.   Ok lets do this,  here is my assesment of the NWC teams:

Whitworth: Best in the conference.  8-0 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined 37-42 opponent record (also a win at #17 wheaton)

Ups:  A close second.  7-0 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 26-40. (have yet to play a top 30 or 35 team team)

Lewis and Clark:  Tough team to play if they are shooting well.  3-2 against ncaa d3 schools with a combined record of 20-23.  (impressive at times but defense is huge ?)

Pacific: Played WW tough and lit up a pretty good Cal Lutheran team.  3-2 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 20-24.  (Play very tough but are also very inexperienced.

Willamette :  what will happen when Stuvland and Fife return?  0-4 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 25-9 (have played a strong schedule so far.)

PLU:  better or the same ol' PLU?  4-0 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 12-24.  have played good competition as of late and are 0-3

Linfield GF and Whitman coming soon.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 27, 2006, 10:36:05 PM
I have Whitworth as my team in the d3hoops survivor pool...  ::) ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 10:43:52 PM
good call.   What made you pick them?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 28, 2006, 08:13:32 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 09:50:36 PM
If I might be allowed to respond before the embargo goes into effect ....

"Embargo"?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 28, 2006, 09:28:15 AM
What a lovely board where everyone talks NWC hoops.  I think I like it here!

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 28, 2006, 10:29:08 AM
Bucs,

I agree that the NWC is looking to be pretty much a two horse race with UPS and WW.  Right now I would also have to say the edge goes to WW, simply because of playing and winning against some better competition.  I have a feeling UPS planned a fairly easy pre-conference schedule to allow themselves some room for error early on.  The reason being that they are very young and have a new head coach, this was very smart in my opinion. 

I'm looking forward to the showdown between Puget Sound and Whitworth coming up soon, it should be a great game! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 28, 2006, 12:48:22 PM
What can I say?  I have a flare for the dramatic.  Nothing wrong with a little entertainment here and there, but we have games this weekend so the peace treaty comes at a good time...

Heading in I agree with the two horse race of UPS-WW that we have seen over the past 3 years (with a hint of Willamette for good measure).  I am not sure that I would be so quick to give WW the edge as Logs is.  It is undeniable that Wheaton victory gives WW the edge in better wins, and that WW has avoided the close calls that UPS has. 

The thing troubling me about the WW squad is that they only go 7 players deep.  Out of these 7 you have Williams, Young, and either Symes or Jones (sometimes both) playing 40 minutes anytime they get into a relatively close game, with the 7th guy only playing 4-6 mins.  Due to the tempo and style, it is difficult to beat UPS with really only a 6 man rotation, especially with only one of those six able to handle the pressure.  The season...as well as the UPS pressure could wear on them.

UPS has shown that they can score once again, but it looks like some adjustments are going to need to be made to that defense to make it through conference as opponent field goal %'s at 60+ will not cut it.  However, they have shown the ability to find ways to win the close ones and those are the victories that tend to separate teams from the rest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 28, 2006, 01:24:23 PM
Thats a very good point Gil.   The short rotation has served WW well so far but it will be tough to keep it to 7 men against the UPS pressure.  There will be early turnovers but I think the key for WW will be rebounding.  They will force three pointers and that will mean tougher rebounds.  I think that whoever wins the boards will take home the W.  Can't wait for that one myself should be a great mid-season matchup between two top 15 teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 03, 2007, 10:59:28 AM
Congrats to WW sitting pretty at #6, another couple wins and they could easily be top five!  With UPS at #13 we could be looking at a possible NWC top ten matchup this season!  Good luck to everyone as we head back into league play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 03, 2007, 02:05:12 PM
Nice post Logs...looks like it will sit good with the Hall of Famers.

Looks like the board has been pretty dead.  Let's try and pick it up a little.

While it is the NWC and any team can win on any given night and all NWC basketball games have big impact on records with only 16 games...cliche, I know....there are not any extraordinary match ups this week. 

Game of the Week: LC at Willamette

LC is always dangerous, and Willamette should have all their guys back by now. Correct?  With Willamette being at home, and the 0-2 start, this is nearly a "must win" situation if the Cats want a shot at some NWC post season. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 05, 2007, 12:59:52 AM
So what do you all think of Kyle Born's 53 point performance last night?  In any normal circumstance 53 points is an amazing total, but the Missionaries were playing Redlands.  So while the Bulldogs are giving up layups to get chances at three pointers, Born is pouring in 25 of 29 shots.  He was essentially taking lay up drills all night. 

I am not sure I give as much respect to that accomplishment as another player scoring 35-40 against a team that actually plays defense past halfcourt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 05, 2007, 01:02:30 AM
Gilbert,

I am interested to see how your Boxers do against WU and UPS this weekend.  The Boxers can make a big early step if they want to contend for a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 05, 2007, 12:29:03 PM
Willamette is facing what basically amounts to a make or break weekend...

Win both, they are right in the race for third...

Lose both, they are in SERIOUS trouble that they probably won't dig their way out of...

They will not have Erickson or Fife for the rest of the year...Stuvland could be back tonight...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 05, 2007, 01:58:47 PM
PineCone-

53 and 16 is 53 and 16...You have to give Born credit for a GREAT performance.  However, you make a good point in having to keep it in perspective.  It was a little over a third of a 149 point outing by Whitman in which they somehow still ended up on the losing end of the contest. Either all the planets were aligned and it was Born's birthday OR  your layup assumption was a good one as he was 25-29 from the field.  Born has been putting up really good numbers since last year so I do not want to discredit a solid performance from a great player, but I hope he took Warner and Brandal out to dinner afterwards, as they handled the press to combine for 26 assists. ;)

I do not know what to think of the Boxer's this year.  They have had some solid performances, like against Cal Lut, but then you have these outings like La Sierra.  This is Lowery's first recruiting class so he should get a little slack on the lack of consistency.  However, barring last year, Pacific has always made it tough on the Loggers...and the rest of the conference to an extent...at their place.  Maybe its the mascot in the middle of the floor?  This was actually the other game I was contemplating mentioning...It should be a good one.  Good Call PineCone!

Bearcats-
Dissapointing to here about Fife and Erickson, they would have definitely contributed to making the NWC race more interesting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 05, 2007, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 05, 2007, 01:58:47 PM
Either all the planets were aligned and it was Born's birthday OR  your layup assumption was a good one as he was 25-29 from the field. 

That's typical when you're playing against a System team like Redlands or Grinnell. IF you can break the press in the backcourt you are in for an easy layup in the frontcourt. This is very, very typical.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 05, 2007, 02:37:21 PM
BCats-

With matchups against LC and Pacific coming up for WU this weekend I should think you will get a great feel for if your Cats can compete for third in the conference.  I think LC and Pac will be right there in the hunt for the third spot, if WU can take care of them both this weekend it gives them a huge advantage in the race for the playoffs.  In my opinion your guys are more than capable of winning especially if you have Stuvland back tonight.  Also I don't think you will miss the other two players a whole lot because Nugent(I always want to call him Ted) is being very productive.  Good luck this weekend!

Gotta agree with Gil on the Borne 53, no matter how you do it 53 is a lot of points.  Pat is of course correct about how it is much much much easier to do against Redlands/Grinell but, 53 is 53 in my book.

Gil- why are the boxers so inconsistent this year?  Some nights I see they get good wins and other nights they lose to bad/OK teams.  Any ideas? 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 06, 2007, 11:25:37 PM
11+ minutes into the game, and high-flying Puget Sound has been held to 10 points on 4 of 11 shooting.  With 8:54 left in the 1st, Pacific leads the Loggers 16-10. 

Whitworth has already disposed of George Fox tonight, 83-53 to move to 13-0.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 06, 2007, 11:46:51 PM
Pacific barely withstands a late Logger run and goes into the half leading 30-29.  Pacific is shooting 55.6% but has been forced into 13 turnovers.  UPS' shooting improved from a 5-for-15 start to finish at 47.6% (10/21), but they have missed 5 free throws (7/12).

UPDATE:  UPS goes on a 10-0 run to open up a 43-37 lead with 14:42 left.
UPDATE:  This half, it's Pacific that is missing free throws (4/8 so far after going 9/9 in the 1st).  Must be the rim at that end of the court.  UPS leads 46-44, 11:35 left.
UPDATE:  Nine lead changes and five ties in the first 12+ minutes of the second half; it reads like an excellent game (although, too many free throws for my taste; 41 so far)!  Tied, 53-53, 7:05 left.
UPDATE:  Boxers on a 6-0 run, lead 59-55, 5:28 left.  Before I can finish typing this, UPS hits two free throws to cut the lead in half.
UPDATE:  It looks like Pacific is a pretty good defensive team, judging from their scores.  UPS hasn't scored less than 92 in a game this season, and they are just at 59 with 4:11 left.  Pacific leads 65-59.
UPDATE:  Pacific should have put this game away by now, but 11/19 free throw shooting continues to haunt them.  69-63 Boxers, 2:43 left.
UPDATE:  Jordan Thurston hits a three, and UPS calls timeout, trailing by 3 (71-68) with 1:42 left.
UPDATE:  DeLong steals and is fouled, hitting one of two, but Van Domelen answers with a jumper.  73-69 Boxers 0:36 left.
UPDATE:  Another steal for DeLong, but Williams missed a three.  DeLong is fouled and hits two, 73-71, 0:14.  Timeout, UPS.
UPDATE:  Pacific inbounds and Thurston fouls with 0:12 left, sending Wong to the line.  30 second timeout for Pacific.  Wong hits both, 75-71.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 07, 2007, 12:55:26 AM
Williams misses a layup for UPS and Foster fouls Wong on the rebound with 0:04 left and Pacific up 4.  Looks like the upset is in the books as Wong drains both free throws.  Williams misses a three at the horn, and Pacific holds on to win 77-71.

Heck of a game.  Ten lead changes and five ties in the first 14 minutes of the second half, Pacific took the lead for good with 6:07 left.  Boxers shot 61% from the floor and had four scorers in double figures led by Donn Harrison-Davis's 18.  Ross Bartlett had a double-double, with 12 points and 10 boards.  UPS also had four in double figures, led by 16 apiece from Antwan Williams and Ryan DeLong.  As a team UPS shot just 42%, including 31.3% from the arc, and only 37.9% overall in the 2nd half.  UPS forced 23 turnovers but were badly outrebounded, 38-17.  And the two teams combined to miss 19 free throws (10 by UPS and 9 by Pacific, all in the 2nd half).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 07, 2007, 02:54:42 PM
Wow, so UPS loses at Pacific.  What could've been a meeting of top-ten teams in Spokane on Friday now will carry extra incentive for the Loggers.  They way the Pirates are currently playing - I don't know that UPS can afford to fall two games behind.

But it is still early.  L&C had a big weekend too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 07, 2007, 07:27:01 PM
Looks like Pacific pulled off the upset, mixing up the NWC even more than expected.

Both Medved and Wood did not play, arguably two of the most key components of the Logger bench and a significant part of the rotation.  DeLong did not start and was limited to 18 minutes.  This pushed Williams, Marsh, and Foster into the 30+ minute range, making for an unusual UPS rotation.

Either way this puts major significance (as if there was not enough prior to the Pacific loss) on next weeks matchup with WW.  UPS has not lost back to back conference games in 3+ years.  Hopefully they get the full rotation back so we can see this highly anticipated match up in its full form. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 07, 2007, 08:00:58 PM
Don't know if you've heard gil but medved is off the team and is no longer on the roster.  That hurts with only one true 3 point shooter now in marsh.   My prediction is that the Whitworth train keeps on rolling.  The blowout of GF was a warmup for them and now the real fun begins
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 08, 2007, 10:31:53 AM
Well....this weekend was not kind to the Loggers, that's about the best way to put it.  It's certainly not time to push that panic button, but if they want a shot at the NWC title they won't be able to lose many more.  WW is still looking very strong and is in lone possession of first place, if the bucks ;) continue to play like they have been playing then it looks like it will come down to a dog fight for 2nd and 3rd. 

Next Friday's game should show what UPS really has, hopefully they will use the loss as motivation to step up their game and play big at WW.  If they drop two in a row that would not be good this early in conference play. 

Bucs- I heard about Medved but I haven't heard why, do you have any idea why he is off the team...Again?  And you are right, only one great 3 point shooter is the last thing the logs need right now!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on January 08, 2007, 04:32:56 PM
I'd rather not specualate, but Medved had struggled with grades in the past. He was ineligible for the Fall 2 years ago, but was still on the team. He ended up not being eligible for the Spring either and ended up transferring to a CC that spring. And with fall grades being released last week, that could be a reason...

But don't quote me on that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2007, 01:51:32 AM
I wouldn't put too much into the UPS Pacific game...While it does put UPS into a tiny hole in terms of the conference standings, they are still a very talented team and If I'm remembering correctly Pacific gave Whitworth a tough game.  But with the way Whitworth played this past weekend and the fact they are home this friday, I think they have to be the favorites in this game against UPS.  I don't expect a 20 point win like last year's home matchup against the loggers, but a Pirate victory none-the-less.  By the way UPSoundLogs, thanks for the ribbing but the "Bucks" are coming off of a 108-105 loss to the Wizards but Michael Redd remains red hot...if only us Bucs had him playing for us then the NAIA glory days would be restored here at Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 09, 2007, 10:24:56 AM
HaHaHa :D I like it Rat, that's the kind of stuff we need around here.  A little jab here and there without people taking offense and getting upset about it!

Gotta agree with you about the WW edge for this weekend, they are looking tough, especially with the game being played in Spokane.  After the loss over the weekend to Pac look for coach Lunt to have the Loggers fired up and ready to play though.  I think it should be a great game, I wish I could be there to watch. 

Obviously I'm gonna stick with my guys, I've got Loggers 81 Bucks 79
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 09, 2007, 01:26:01 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 09, 2007, 10:24:56 AM
HaHaHa :D I like it Rat, that's the kind of stuff we need around here. 

That is good that Rat and Logs have made friendly....I guess we are not as bad over here in the NWC as most suspect.

Thanks for the info Bucs/PennSt.  I think the Medved loss may be greater than what appears.  Medved was a big 3 point threat, but from what I saw he was solid in the press and could put the ball on the floor as well.  He was a left hander and when UPS put him on the right wing he could effectively bring the ball middle breaking defenses down as oppose to going baseline right into the help, and we all know that UPS is all about the one on one play.  Medved, like Marsh spread the court out making such play easier, and more importantly garnered attention against zone defenses, the only type of defense that seems to be consistently effective against the Loggers. 

However, like Rat said, the loss to Pacific (and of Medved for that matter) does not necessitate the pressing of the "Panic" button quite yet.  WW last year did drop to GFU and PLU on the road before ending the season on a tear.  While it is an unexpected loss, year in and year out has proven that you have to protect your home court if you want to win the NWC, and then pick up as many on the road as possible.

As for Fri...the timing edge has to go to UPS.  They just came of a dissapointing loss and I am sure Lunt and the team are using it to their advantage to focus themselves.  Meanwhile,  WW is sitting undefeated.  It can have an effect....look at the smacking UPS took last year on WW's court.

BUT....overall advantage has to WW.  Record and wins speak loud enough.

Either way Good LUC!! ;)
Title: Re: (No subject)
Post by: (509)Rat on January 10, 2007, 02:19:53 AM
Yes, Gilbert...The counseling has paid off.  See, my dad was killed by a lumberjack (or logger if you prefer) so I've always had this deep hatred for the hairy folk from the Sound.  But I realized that UPSoundLogs and his gang of rough and rugged, gruff and disgruntled wood choppers aren't all that bad.

Whitworth 85
UPS 74

The margin of victory will look bigger because UPS will foul at the end in an attempt come from behind to beat the Pirates on their home court...Whitworth (unlike WSU the other night in their victory over Arizona) will make their free throws and with no Medved the Loggers can't catch up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 10, 2007, 02:43:14 AM
Pacific gets another good win tonight, beating L&C in OT.  Could the Boxers be building some consistency?  If so, they will have to be reckoned with at the end.

However it also means that Whitworth has a chance to be two games up on the rest of the NWC after this weekend's games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 11, 2007, 02:34:43 PM
Great Whitworth-UPS preview in around the nation.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 11, 2007, 02:42:57 PM
Whitworth seems to be the logical choice in the big NWC battle this weekend...

a. Homecourt advantage
b. Senior point guard used to dealing with UPS pressure
c.  Big men capable of finishing off all the transition baskets the Loggers give up
d. A shooter in young capable of stretching the Loggers back line guys, allowing more easy layups
e. Catching the loggers coming off a loss to a Pacifc team that lost the Bearcats (who are STRUGGLING) the night before
f. A veteran coach

UPS should enjoy
a. An overall quickness superiority
b. Better depth, as Whitworth (looking at the stats) plays about 6.75 guys
c. A motivational aide, as they must realize a 2nd loss this early puts them actually 3 games behind the pirates in the race for the NWC

I still like the Pirates....say 87-80...

As for the WU, Stuvland plays for the first time Friday...maybe that can end the up and down nature of the season (but in all honesty, with LC beating WU, then losing to Pacifc...a lot of teams are bunched with either 2 or 3 conference losses...the race for third should stay tight all year long...)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 12, 2007, 11:56:11 PM
WW leads UPS at the half, 31-26.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 13, 2007, 12:00:52 AM
keep me posted, that's my survivor team! lol  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 13, 2007, 12:13:44 AM
14:38 left, WW lead down to one, 39-38.

UPDATE:  WW lead out to 5, 51-46, 10:35 left.
UPDATE:  WW 53, UPS 51, 9:40 remaining.
UPDATE:  UPS briefly had a 2-point lead, but WW answers and now leads by 2, 62-60, 6:18 left.
UPDATE:  WW 64-60, 5:07.
UPDATE:  During timeouts, KSBN plays a commercial for "Columbia Hearing Centers," enticing me to get hearing aids by forcing me to listen to a woman singing so badly out of tune that I want to claw my own ears off.  What a way to drum up customers! :)
UPDATE:  DeLong with the old-fashioned three point play gives UPS a 67-66 lead, 3:17 left.
UPDATE:  UPS 70-68, 2:34.  Two points is UPS' largest lead of the game.
UPDATE:  Two free throws tie the game.  UPS answers, 72-70.  Backdoor dunk by Symes, tied again at 72, 1:31.
UPDATE:  UPS hits, then WW misses.  UPS ball 74-72.  They eat the whole shot clock and score, 76-72, :30.
UPDATE:  0:17 left, UPS steals the inbounds pass, foul. 
UPDATE:  Krall (sp?) hits one of two, 77-72. 
UPDATE:  WW gets up several shots but none fall.  FINAL SCORE 77-72 UPS.  Sorry, Old School.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 13, 2007, 02:59:50 AM
Wow, tough loss for the Pirates tonight.  Loggers deserve a lot a credit.  Just wore down Whitworth in the second half and forced the Pirates to play the UPS game.

Didn't know Jones was hurt until game time.  Not having him really hurt, both in ball handling and shooting.  Hope he is back soon.

No break away by the Bucs, we've got a tight race in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 13, 2007, 03:19:04 PM
So both the nationally ranked NWC teams lost recently.  :-\

In touch with a colleague this week and we agreed the NWC at one time played 3 games against each other.

Just a bit of trivia since LINFIELD has nothing to do with winning the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 13, 2007, 08:48:05 PM
Yeah, UPS hit a ton of shots from beyond the arc...in fact they hit 8 and whitworth made a whopping 0 3-pointers.  The Pirates also missed too many short (and I mean short) jumpers and even a few layups.  Having Jones out hurt, and now Young is a little banged up and wont be starting tonight.  But after watching the game last night I still think Whitworth is the better team this year, UPS just made their shots last night.  Well, looks like the NWC race is back on...good luck to the Pirates tonight as they take on PLU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2007, 12:13:19 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on January 13, 2007, 03:19:04 PM
So both the nationally ranked NWC teams lost recently.  :-\

In touch with a colleague this week and we agreed the NWC at one time played 3 games against each other.

Just a bit of trivia since LINFIELD has nothing to do with winning the conference.
DOC, that must have been back in the NAIA days when more games were permitted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 15, 2007, 03:36:20 AM
NAIA, true Ralph.
It seems the coaches wanted out of that schedule to allow for more pre-season/Christmas tournaments.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 16, 2007, 10:44:00 AM
I've been away from the board for a few days but I feel like I should mention, UPS BEAT WW... AT WHITWORTH(just in case nobody noticed)!!!  Even if JJones is out that is a huge win!  I wasn't at the game so I can't comment on details but I'm impressed.  Just when I thought UPS couldn't possibly be any worse (loss to Pac) they go and do something like this....AND TOTALLY REDEEM THEMSELVES!!! 

Rat- it seems as if you have come down with a slight touch of poorloseritis.  Just so you know, UPS averages over 10 made threes a game, 8 is nothing, you should just be happy they were cold on Friday.  I agree with you that not having Jones hurts...but so does blowing a 17-4 lead at home ;) OUCH!!!

Great road trip East of the mountains Loggers.  Keep the W's coming!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 16, 2007, 03:26:53 PM
First of all having jones out does not kinda hurt, it is huge.  He averaged 25 points per game last year against UPS in just 24 minutes of playing time, he is a ups killer.  But that aside, LOgs you should know that UPS' game is about runs.  they give up 15-0 runs and they go on 15-0 runs.  the 17-4 was with 32 minutes still left in the game.  I wouldn't call getting up by 13 with 12 minutes to go in the first half and the whole second half still to play "blowing a huge lead"  Congrats though on a game well played.  It seemed that UPS was able to substitute much better than WW.  UPS went about 8 deep with solid minutes from the bench and WW tried to have Young, Williams, Symes, and Willemsen play 39,38,39,and 38 minutes.  Seems like a close game with those minutes played would favor UPS considerably.  WW needs to find a better way to get their starters some rest in the next meeting.  Should be a good one in a few weeks and in the meanwhile lets hope for Occidental to keep sweeping through the sciac so that we can both do some damage in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 16, 2007, 04:06:36 PM
BELIEVE ME Bucs, the JJones effect is certainly taken into account as I enjoy Friday's victory.  He does have a way of coming up huge every time he plays UPS :-\ I can't disagree with you there.  However, I doubt that someone who has beaten UPS once in his career deserves the nickname "UPS killer". 

I do look forward to the next match up in a few weeks, does it look like JJones will be ready to go by then or will he still be a cheerleader at that time? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 16, 2007, 08:24:38 PM
not sure about jones for next time.  From what I've heard it looks like the soonest he would be back would be the games at Whitman and at home against Willamette which are WW's last 2 regular season games.  But, and I think you would agree with me on this, UPS and WW will play 3 times this year possibly 4 if both go to the national tourny.  I see eith UPS or WW in 1st and the other in 2nd with an unknown 3rd place team (lc or pac) having to play at WW or UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2007, 03:17:15 PM
Bucs-

In my opinion your vision is correct about a WW vs. UPS conference tourney title game.  However, LC and Pac can't be ignored.  Both have come up with a suprising amount of wins thus far in conference.  I'll be better prepared to judge LC after this Friday because they come to Tacoma and I'm going to the game.  I think both of them are very dangerous teams, especially on the road (as UPS found out the hard way) :-\ 

How do you think WW will handle the bulk of the regular season without JJones?  They still have some VERY tough games on the road, including a trip to UPS.  Do you think they will have the fire power to stay in the top two spots for the end of the year?  Symes looks good but after him their scoring seems pretty inconsistent...I would say they are gonna have their work cut out for them until JJ gets back. 

BCats-

What's the status buddy?  Is WU gonna make a run with the return of Stuvland or will their downward spiral continue?  It's wierd talking about the conference leaders without your Cats in the mix! Any thoughts?

Anybody know where Gil went?  I hope P-coleman and the rest of the old timers...I mean... Hall of Famers didn't scare him off!!! :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 17, 2007, 09:55:16 PM
I think defensively WW will be fine.  since jones has been out they have held UPS to 77, PLU to 56 and Whitman to 59.  However offensively it is a big hit.  They won't beat teams in the second half of the league 90-80, they will have to win with their defense.  Also if Hasenfus keeps boarding like  the last few games they will be a very good rebounding team because of their size.   As far as tough roadtrips, I think the toughest of the year will be next weekend when they go to pacific and LC.  Not downplaying the UPS game in Tacoma, but WW has to play very well two nights in a row to come out of there with what they want.  Those two games I think will be the biggest of the season for the team and the seperation of the leagues 1st and second place teams vs. the others fighting for 3rd.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 18, 2007, 03:05:43 PM

Someone from the WU, somewhere, at sometime, must have done something truly terrible, because the Karma with the BCats right now is ridiculous...

Stuvland regains his eligibility, only to severely sprain his ankle in practice the day before the Fox game...

Erickson gets a medical clear to play, gives them a great 21 minutes and 3 seconds before reinjuring himself for the year taking a charge with 57 seconds to play...

Fife is gone...

Michael Plank is forced to play the first semester (due to all the injuries) and now has exhausted his semesters of eligibility...

Tain Cantrell (fr. post from Westview HS) starts to play well, gets the start at George Fox, but now is out with a medical condition he had to be hospitalized for...the players haven't told me yet when he will be back...


Obviously, every team goes through injuries, but losing that many key players has definately contributed to the Bcats up and down ways...this is a team that lost 140-137 AT UPS, but then got blown out by PLU...this is a team that beat Pacific, only to get romped by George Fox...

I truly have no idea what to expect Friday against the Pirates...only that the 'Cats are more than capable of getting crushed...or getting a huge upset win...

Who knows...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 18, 2007, 03:29:04 PM
Holy Wow Bcats!!!  That's an impressive/depressing injured reserve list you have there.  I think you're right, someone from WU must have spit on the Pope or something...Your Karma is terrible :-\!!!  Injuries are one thing, but half the squad out of commission is quite another.  All I can say is keep on truckin buddy! 

I'm just glad I have my lucky rabbits foot that I keep in my right pocket at all times...maybe you should look into getting one for yourself.  Good Luck ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 19, 2007, 01:42:56 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2007, 03:17:15 PM
Anybody know where Gil went?  I hope P-coleman and the rest of the old timers...I mean... Hall of Famers didn't scare him off!!! :D

Logs-
Sorry, there was a marathon of "Who's the Boss?" on television and I love Tony Danza.  I got a little distracted.  Thanks for caring :-*.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2007, 08:48:05 PM
Yeah, UPS hit a ton of shots from beyond the arc...in fact they hit 8 and whitworth made a whopping 0 3-pointers....  But after watching the game last night I still think Whitworth is the better team this year, UPS just made their shots last night.

Rat-
It sounds like you may be shadowboxing a good performance.  I was unfortunately unable to make the game and cannot attest to the live action, but UPS went into unbeaten WW's home floor and "made their shots," good arguments that they are the better team this year.  You mention that WW made no three pointers.  I think the more telling stat is that WW only ATTEMPTED 3 three pointers.  I would blame it on a bad shooting night if they went 0-10 or maybe even 0-8.  However UPS held a team accustomed to around 16 attempts in a 50-60 possession game to 3 attempts in a 65-75 possession game.  (Jon Young usually takes 7 on his own!)  For once, the UPS DEFENSE may deserve a little credit.  It seems as if they were rotating well and getting out to shooters.  (However, it is not that surprising as, besides forcing turnovers, the three point line has been the other consistent bright spot of the UPS defense)

Quote from: bucs77 on January 16, 2007, 03:26:53 PM
  Should be a good one in a few weeks and in the meanwhile lets hope for Occidental to keep sweeping through the sciac so that we can both do some damage in the playoffs.

UPS and WW will, at best, have four in region losses between them by the end of the season.  Without putting the cart too far ahead of the horse, if Oxy continues and gets a high region ranking, there may end up being an NWC first round matchup similar to the Claremont-Oxy fiasco of last year.  A little bitter sweet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 19, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
Gil, welcome back!!!

I'm not even gonna touch on your Tony Danza fetish...I'm just glad it's your problem and not mine :o

Anyways......Big game tonight between UPS and LC, finally a UPS home game I can attend!!!  I'm interested to see LC play, they must be doing something right to be 3rd in league right now, hopefully its an exciting game. 

Prediction: UPS 110 and LC 90, It will be close for most of the game but LC won't have enough fire power to keep up for the whole game and they will fizzle out in the last ten minutes.  Plus I can't imagine UPS not reaching 100+ at home.  Good luck fellas!

I think Gil is right, if we do end up with two NWC teams and one SCIAC team in the tourney the two NWC teams will probably be made to play each other in the first round...then the winner plays, and probably punishes, the SCIAC team(again).    I can't claim I know all the details but that seems like the most likely outcome.   Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ;D? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 19, 2007, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 19, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ;D? 

I would like to point out LOGS that you are no longer a JV Boy and now outclass me as a Second Stringer.  Congratulations.

Whoever put my Karma down a notch for my last post....I hope it was for the UPS/WW commentary because Tony Danza is a great actor.

Willamette sounds like they are down in man power but if history can tell us anything about the WW-WU series...you cannot over look this game.  Should be a good night!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2007, 10:14:19 PM
QuoteIt seems as if they were rotating well and getting out to shooters.  (However, it is not that surprising as, besides forcing turnovers, the three point line has been the other consistent bright spot of the UPS defense)

You are correct Gil, they were getting out to the shooters but they always will get out to shooters because of the defense they run.  That 3/4 to full court press where they jump (double) everything and will guard you no matter where you are on the court is why Whitworth wasn't taking three's.  What Whitworth did do was give the ball to Symes and Williams, let them beat there guy off the dribble and pull up and take a shot from about 4-5 feet out, or wait for UPS's help and dish it to hasenfus and jurich for easy layups.  The only problem is that whitworth missed one too many easy layups and short...and I mean very short...jumpers.  Last year I thought UPS was the better team even though Whitworth played them very tight twice and beat them badly once, Whitworth just happened to get hot on the right night.  I think UPS is the same way at this point.  Whitworth didn't play a great game and UPS did, but I still think Whitworth beats UPS more often than not if they were to play each other every weekend.  But if both teams play to their potential the NWC should get two teams into the tourney this year and thats one thing I think we can all root for.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 20, 2007, 03:13:15 PM
Well I can't say it was a pretty game last night in Tacoma.  In Fact, I thought UPS was not gonna pull off the win for most of the second half.  The Loggers finally started playing defense(kind of) and making some shots with about 10 minutes left in the game.  Plus LC couldn't make a free throw to save their lives down the stretch, this led to a pretty dramatic come back from 13 down for the Logs to win by 6. 

I was very impressed by Tillery from LC, he was cutting through the press like nothing and was the leading scorer for the game.  He's VERY quick and was blowing right by UPS at every oppurtunity for an easy layup. 

Not too many highlights for UPS tonight.  However, Robert Kraul played very well(24 and 9 I think).  Joson Foster and Ryan Delong had off nights and when they aren't scoring things get pretty ugly. 

Oh well, a win is a win, my predictions for the game were WAY OFF but I guess I can't have all the answers all the time ;D.  Congrats to the Loggers on a hard fought come back win!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2007, 06:25:53 PM
Back to NWC business.  Tired of dealing with the SoCal lawyer who specializes in truthiness.  Don't know if I've ever been misquoted so much in my life, including areguements with the spouse!

So Gilbert - what do you think Whitworth's chances are of winning at both Pacific and L&C this weekend?  Seems like this is the key weekend of the second half for the Pirates (leaving out for one second the Pirate-Loggers rematch).

Your Boxers have shown the typical up-and-down syndrome of youth.  What's your take on how they'll respond to a pair of tough losses this past weekend?  They have certainly played well at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2007, 06:29:29 PM
Also - anyone know when the regional rankings start getting posted?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 22, 2007, 06:39:51 PM
Yeah no kidding Pinecone, he's pretty painful to debate with...the guy doesn't even make sense.  Oh well, that's what we get for trying to make conversation with the SCIAC I guess!

Not sure about the rankings, sorry.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 22, 2007, 10:37:25 PM
what is the deal with those laguna beach wackos
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 12:32:50 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 22, 2007, 06:29:29 PM
Also - anyone know when the regional rankings start getting posted?

First week of February.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 01:06:54 PM
Bucs77, I don't know who your made-up source is, but mine is the schools' annual Title IX filing with the U.S. Department of Education.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 12:42:34 PM
From 2005-06:
Occidental MBB budget: $44,028
Whitworth MBB budget: $58,667

These numbers are reported to the federal government each year as part of Title IX.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 23, 2007, 01:55:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 01:06:54 PM
Bucs77, I don't know who your made-up source is, but mine is the schools' annual Title IX filing with the U.S. Department of Education.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 12:42:34 PM
From 2005-06:
Occidental MBB budget: $44,028
Whitworth MBB budget: $58,667

These numbers are reported to the federal government each year as part of Title IX.

Pat,

These numbers are reported as "operating expenses".  Since Whitworth does travel more to play out of state and in-state teams (non-conference and conference games) it would make sense to have greater operating expenses.  Am I missing something or are "budget" and "operating expenses" synonyms?

Attached: snapshot of Operating Expenses report
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 01:58:27 PM
Pat,
          I also found those numbers and then realized that those are not how much the school gives each program at the beginning of the year, but rather how much they spent in total on the team for the year.  So please get your facts straight before you come back
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 01:59:14 PM
you are exactly right cat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:00:36 PM
Let's not mince words here. Here's what they spent. If they are confident enough in this figure to report it to the federal government then I am sure they will stand behind it in this measly forum.

Besides, who's to say they didn't overspend their budget and cover for it by fundraising? Your "get your facts straight" goes both ways, bucs.

Who's the made-up source you want us to believe?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:05:52 PM
pat we were talking about means to travel.  The Sciac board was giving sob stories about how they weren't given the MBB budget that WW was given.  I pointed out that it simply wasn't true.  At the beginning of the year OXY is starting with more money from the institution.   You are right in that after that the fundraising can go up, but lets not accuse someone of being a liar when they are in fact correct.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:06:51 PM
You haven't given your source, though. You want us to believe that you have numbers that show more than a 25% change from what the numbers I listed show? You better come up with some damn good evidence to back that up.

I've backed my statement. You back yours.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:10:21 PM
Tell me the good in giving the source.  Is it so you can look them up to see if they work there, or is it so that you can call them and say "I'm trying to win an arguement"  How about you actually call an figure it out like I did.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:12:00 PM
Nope. I have a published, verifiable source. You have hearsay. I think the burden is on the person who is providing the hearsay to back it up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:15:48 PM
go ahead and hide behind that.  I hope it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know that you brought a source that means nothing to the table.  I think im gonna research how much ww spent on food and then bring that in a PUBLISHED article. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:16:39 PM
 If you want the straight numbers then chew on this.  WW is given in the 25,000 range at the beginning of the year from the school.  Fundraising by the coach and players gets them up to over double where they start.  Think about what you are saying before you talk.  Oh and yes that is a fact because I am one of the donors for their program and have talked with the WW coaches on more than one occasion about the #s
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:18:16 PM
I guess you think Whitworth is the only school that does fundraising?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:23:58 PM
I feel like there is an echo in here.  We are having the same conversation on 2 boards, anyway.  The question was over who was allocated more resources/funds at the beginning of the year by their respective school.  WW or Oxy.  You have established that OXY spent less overall. That was not the question.  I have answered it and it is factual assuming I was not given false information by the athletic dept.s.  you can research the correct question for yourself or we will drop it.

UPSLOGS I think I'm fading into the depths of NEGATIVE KARMA
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 23, 2007, 02:24:45 PM
I understand what you are saying bucs!  

Just like WW, UPS also fundraises A LOT to help with Travel/Food/Fun/etc. expenses to make the D3 spending budget that they are given stretch out and allow the players a more enjoyable experience.  There is a BIG difference between what a teams "Budget" is and what a teams "Operating Expenses" are over the course of a season.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
For all teams. Not just Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 23, 2007, 02:26:54 PM
I found the operating expenses info on Basketball to be interesting.

Here is the breakdown on the NWC and SCIAC in terms of OE:

NWC:
$75,513 -UPS
$58,667-Whitworth
$47,981-Whitman
$47,591-GFU
$46,153-Willamette
$41,498-Linfield
$34,384-Pacific
$30,853-L&C

SCIAC:
$44,028-Oxy
$36,175-Claremont
$23,975-Redlands
$22,000-Chapman
$16,262-Cal Lu
$14,507-LaVerne
$14,431-Pamona
$10,400-Whittier
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:27:30 PM
haha, are you a little slow pat?
C'mon man.... do you agree that we have established your facts are useless?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 23, 2007, 02:32:25 PM
HaHaHaHaHa :D

Bucs-
Join the club in the depths of the negative karma black hole!  My Karma has been ticking away since my first post, I was doomed from the start.  Just make sure that you check both ways when crossing the street...and if you see a black cat RUUUUUUN!!!!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:35:04 PM
Quote from: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:27:30 PM
haha, are you a little slow pat?
C'mon man.... do you agree that we have established your facts are useless?

No, I have other things to do than argue with you on two boards.

I have facts. You have hearsay. Until that changes your words mean nothing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:35:41 PM
I feel like I got stuck talking to that slow kid in high school who doesn't understand that you asked him how he was doing not what he ate for lunch
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 03:24:48 PM
Man, 45 minutes and you still have no facts? Guess it's over, then.

BTW, insulting another poster is no way to make your point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 23, 2007, 05:26:44 PM
Soooo... ;)

Logs/Bearcats - Are either of you anticpating a repeat of the three-overtime thriller this weekend in Salem?  Can Willamette match its performance from December?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 23, 2007, 05:40:51 PM
Pcones-

Geez, I hope there isn't another triple overtime game, that was painful to watch. 

WU is a very tough place to play, even though they are having a real down year that trip still worries me :-\.  In my opinion UPS is their own worst enemy, they have TONS of talent but are very young and don't play hard at times.  If they come out with a spirited effort they are more than capable of playing with the best teams in the country...if they come out half heartedly they are more than capable of losing to the worst teams in the country.  It's as simple as that.

After a down weekend this past weekend(barely getting wins over LC and Linfield AT UPS) I'm guessing they will have a tough week of practice and be ready to go at WU.  With the cats being in a downward spiral this season I'm guessing a double digit win for the Loggers.

Prediction- UPS 91     WU 80

Bcats....what do you think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2007, 03:08:56 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 23, 2007, 02:26:54 PM
I found the operating expenses info on Basketball to be interesting.

Here is the breakdown on the NWC and SCIAC in terms of OE:

NWC:
$75,513 -UPS
$58,667-Whitworth
$47,981-Whitman
$47,591-GFU
$46,153-Willamette
$41,498-Linfield
$34,384-Pacific
$30,853-L&C

SCIAC:
$44,028-Oxy
$36,175-Claremont
$23,975-Redlands
$22,000-Chapman
$16,262-Cal Lu
$14,507-LaVerne
$14,431-Pamona
$10,400-Whittier

Chapman isn't in the SCIAC, wildcat11. It's an independent school. And you forgot Caltech.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 24, 2007, 11:46:12 AM
First time poster, long time fan.

First half is over, mid-season awards?  Player of the year, coach of the year, surprises, dissapointments?  Predictions?

Symes has put up great numbers for Whitworth, Lunt and Hayford both have their teams with only one loss at the break.

Pacific has had some big wins in Lowery's second year (being that my cousin was a Boxer my NWC loyalties goes towards them).  Give my Boxers another year or two.

Willamette has had a rough start, but Stuvland is back, maybe they can make a late charge toward the playoff.

Safe to say two of the spots will be taken by Whitworth and UPS, with LC, Pacific, Fox, and maybe even Willamette in the hunt for the third.

Whitworth fans, what do you think of your boys' trip coming up this weekend, at Pacific and at LC?  Not an easy one, I think both are undefeated at home in conference, and Whitworth is undefeated on the road in conference, something has to give.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 24, 2007, 08:09:30 PM
Pinecone & Buc"k"s

Looks like I was absent on the wrong day...I am sorry that I was not here to help out when Pat came guns a blazin'.  I will try not to let it happen again.  I did however try and give a little help over on the SCIAC board in an attempt to shed some light on reality....not sure if it worked.

Anyhow...

Quote from: pineconefan on January 22, 2007, 06:25:53 PM
So Gilbert - what do you think Whitworth's chances are of winning at both Pacific and L&C this weekend?  Seems like this is the key weekend of the second half for the Pirates (leaving out for one second the Pirate-Loggers rematch).

Your Boxers have shown the typical up-and-down syndrome of youth.  What's your take on how they'll respond to a pair of tough losses this past weekend?  They have certainly played well at home.

I think you said a lot in the statement "typical up and down syndrome of youth." With Pac you get games like a 5 point road loss to WW, win against UPS, followed by a win against LC....and then you get losses on the road to PLU and Linfield.  I think not only youth of the players, but also youth of the program have to be taken into account.  This is Lowery's second trip through the NWC with his first recruiting class.  The program may still be finding an identity and determining its way to try and win in the NWC. It reminds me a lot of the '02-03 UPS team that went 12-13 before UPS has gone on to there three year dominance (I am not sure if Pac is as talented, though).  The team can win at home, and can get up for the big games (i.e. UPS, WW).  That is easy.  However, the team has failed to show the qualities that tend to separate the NWC champs from the rest of the pack:  The ability to find ways to win on the road.  But Pac is at home, they have lost the last two, it is WW, and this is a HUGE game so......

As for WW, they have a huge weekend.  I think this weekend may determine whether or not they are really the favorite in the NWC.  They can pick up a win where UPS failed to, and show that they can show that ability to win on the road like I talked about.

I think they will definitely get one, but two?  I say the chances are 50/50.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 19, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
I think Gil is right, if we do end up with two NWC teams and one SCIAC team in the tourney the two NWC teams will probably be made to play each other in the first round...then the winner plays, and probably punishes, the SCIAC team(again).    I can't claim I know all the details but that seems like the most likely outcome.   Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ;D? 

Logs-

Look like Pat big timed you and did not even answer your "second string" question.  Nice attempt at the olive branch though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 24, 2007, 10:51:10 PM
Gil, I am anxious about this weekend for the Bucs.  To have a real chance at finishing at the top of the league, they do need both.  Missing James Jones could be big this weekend.  Not just for his points, but I am sure the team will miss having that extra senior ball handler on the floor in a couple hostile gyms.

The one thing that could bode well is that Whitworth has won in both gyms the last two-three years, so there isn't much of an intimidation factor coming in.

I fully expect the "good" Boxers to show up for the game on Friday.  I'll be listening to Bob C. call the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 25, 2007, 01:04:49 AM
Gil

Great analogy of the Boxers, it may be a total youth of the program thing going on right now.  But I like the comparison to that 02-03 UPS team as well, I remember seeing them when Bridgeland first took over.  Lowery reminds me a bit of Bridgeland, young, driven, a good recruiter, intense, his guys play hard for him (at least at home right now from what I'm hearing, I haven't seen them on the road yet).

Pinecone, I agree, I think it's 50/50 Whitworth gets both.  I have to try and make it out to the Grove Friday, should be a good one.

Did Van Domelen play in the first Pac-WW game?














Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 25, 2007, 11:59:27 AM
NWCer-
As for your question about mid-season awards...

I've been suprised/impressed by several of the young Loggers this year, but I don't want to be too biased so I'll stick to the rest of the league. 

From the players I've seen play so far I think Tillery from LC and Nugent from WU have been the best.  Tillery is awesome in the open court and super quick at getting to the rim, Nugent is just an all around very solid player especially for a Freshman.  My guess is he will be in the running for POY in years to come. 

From reading game summaries and looking at statistics I would say Symes(sp?) from WW and Born from WTM are both looking like first team all NWC type of players.  Symes has really stepped it up in scoring with JJones out for WW and Born averages 20/11, you can't really argue with those numbers. 

Gil- 
Ya I really did get big timed by the P-man, I think all he did was lower my karma even more, Oh well :-\.  Nice commentary on the Boxers season so far this year, you really seem to know your stuff.   With the way you analyze, You remind me of a coach I once knew!!! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 26, 2007, 03:42:30 PM
Logs-

I appreciate the love on the Boxers comments...I am not too sure of what to make out of the analogy to the "coach you once knew," followed by the "winky guy."  It seems like we have the same view on most major issues and tend to get along well on the board, therefore I think you mean this as a compliment.  In attempts at deciphering the meaning of the "winky guy" in the quote, I could only come up with one explanation.  To put it in your terms, as you framed it to Sager in his descriptions of Williams, you possibly have a "man crush" on one of the UPS coaches you once knew....Bridegland perhaps?  He has brought you success recently so I figured by comparing me to him, and the "man crush" you have on him, would be a compliment to me.  So thanks....sort of.

Anyways back to business.

NWCer welcome.

As for midseason awards, only two.

Biggest Surprise: Robert Krauel, UPS
He is an under sized post that is 4th in the league in scoring at 17 a game, second on UPS in scoring, leads the league in field goal percentage, and a monster on the boards.  All this after coming off a 4 point, 11 minutes per game Freshmen campaign.  I think a lot of credit needs to go to Krauel, and some to Lunt as it looks like UPS has found a NWC first teamer where no one expected.

Least Surprise: Kyle Born, Whitman
22 and 11.  Enough said. He has been putting up these type of numbers consistenly for a while now, it is just too bad that he and Faidely could not get it going in the W column.  Despite this I do not think you can ignore the argument for possible POTY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 26, 2007, 04:33:04 PM
Gil-

I think you may be reading into the winking guy a little too much.  I was simply trying to say that your analysis of Pacific reminds me of a coach's.  You are very detailed and seem to know a lot about Pacific.  You portray some of the same qualities that I've seen coaches that's all ;)(don't mind that little guy).  Although I am a UPS hoops fan, I can't claim to have ever known Brigelend(sp?) personally, but you are right, he did bring the team great success!  You seem to hold him in high regard however, so If you would like to believe I have a "man crush" on him and you think he's a great guy, then I guess I'm ok with that.  Kinda creepy, but hey, whatever floats your boat ???

Also, I think you are correct in naming Robert Kraul as one of the best in the league.  I didn't want to portray a UPS bias in my mid season picks, but he and Jason Foster both deserve a lot of credit for how well they are playing this season and keeping the Loggers in the Conference title race. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 26, 2007, 05:25:59 PM
Logs-

Alright Logs, thanks for the explanation.  It makes me a little more comfortable being on this board.  You don't take the  :-* I put up a few posts ago seriously, and I will not read into the ;). Deal.  For the record, I was never too much of a Bridgeland fan per se.  I liked how hard his teams played, but thought he was a little much on the sideline.  I heard he even got thrown out of an aumni game.  True?

Anyway, it seems like we both agree Born is having a POTY like run...and this is for the rest of the board as well...who else would you throw in the mix mid way through.  What about Foster, Logs?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 26, 2007, 05:59:59 PM
Gil- 

Like I said before, I don't want to be putting too much of my bias towards the Logger players into the mix when discussing POTY/ All conference/ etc. but since you asked I will discuss them a little. 

In my mind Foster, Krauel, Delong, and potentially Williams and Marsh could each make an argument for being on the All NWC list at the end of the year.  I realize it isn't likely or fair to have 5 UPS players as all conference, but I think they are all on that level as players.  If UPS wins the conference, either Foster(18 and 7) or Krauel(17 and 6) should be POY, with the edge to Krauel becuase he is more consistent in crunch time.  They both put up great numbers, especially when taking into account the fact that they each only play between 20-25 minutes a game and often times play side by side(which eats away at each others stats).  The great thing is they both are only Sophmores, two more years of those guys in the league should be scary for everyone else in the NWC.   I would even venture to say they might overshadow Chase Curtiss as UPS's best player from the past few years by the time they are seniors. 

So without getting too carried away, that's my analysis on the Logger players. 

I wish I could say I have seen more teams in person so that i could comment on other players, but I have only seen about half the league so far this year.  Does anyone else have some mid season player analysis/awards?  It's always interesting to hear everyones perspective. 



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on January 27, 2007, 01:53:47 PM
Interesting night in the NWC,

Linfield beats PLU
Whitworth continues to roll
and............
the game of the week, The bearcats beat the Loggers 119-108.  :o
What a shoot out, anyone at the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 27, 2007, 11:02:22 PM
Whitworth drops one tonight at L&C, 66-60.

I must say that, except for the seriously goofy commercials for Dollar Resale and Columbia Hearing Centers, I really enjoy listening to Whitworth broadcasts on the web.  Bob Castle does an excellent job with his play-by-play.  I've listened to a lot of broadcasts all over the country, and I'd say that the KSBN broadcasts are very near the top in terms of quality.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 12:39:19 AM
Now I'm listening to the KFOX broadcast of UPS at George Fox (UPS leading by 1 with 6:44 left in the second half), and while this broadcast isn't nearly as professional as KSBN, it's a heck of a lot more fun.  This play-by-play man (a GFU student?) has a big future in Latin American soccer announcing if he wants to go that way.  He's really into the game, and is translating the excitement very well.  I can't imagine how he's managed not to lose his voice yet.  It's great fun listening to this game.   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 12:51:48 AM
GFU by 5 with a minuteand a half left.

This may blow my Top 25!  I thought that I had some stability in the NWC, until this week!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 12:51:48 AM
GFU by 5 with a minute and a half left.

This may blow my Top 25!  I thought that I had some stability in the NWC, until this week!

GFU 68-63; 1:30 left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 12:56:51 AM
GFU was down by 17 at one point in the game.

UPS -- GFU rebs.
GFU -- Robert Krauel (UPS) gets a technical.  Bruins make both Ft's. Up by 7,70-63.
UPS -- Time out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 01:01:45 AM
GFU --  71-63 0:40 left.
Now 75-61 GFU.

Final GFU 75 UPS 63.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 01:07:46 AM
Whitworth's loss left the door open for the Loggers to regain the NWC lead, and UPS had a 17-point lead in the first half, but they couldn't sustain it.  This race is getting real interesting as Whitworth (8-2) now leads both UPS (7-3) and L&C (7-3) by 1 game and GFU (6-4) by 2 games.  Do I understand correctly that just the top 3 teams qualify for the conference tournament?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 01:16:06 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 01:07:46 AM
Whitworth's loss left the door open for the Loggers to regain the NWC lead, and UPS had a 17-point lead in the first half, but they couldn't sustain it.  This race is getting real interesting as Whitworth (8-2) now leads both UPS (7-3) and L&C (7-3) by 1 game and GFU (6-4) by 2 games.  Do I understand correctly that just the top 3 teams qualify for the conference tournament?

Yes, a 3-team tourney (http://www.nwcsports.com/information/governance/bkbprocedures8-05.pdf).  #3 at #2 on Thursday, then winner to #1.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 28, 2007, 05:03:04 AM
UPS faithful:  Why no Foster tonight?  If he's gone for any extended period of time that could be a HUGE blow for the Loggers.

Willamette quietly is starting to get it together, looks like they have a big weekend visiting my Boxers and a red hot LC team, we'll see if their resurgence is for real.

The race is getting good, for the title and the conference tourney.

Got to get out and see more of these games in person the final few weeks.  Any eye witness accounts from any of this weekend's games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 28, 2007, 11:35:47 AM
Big weekend for the traveling leaders and both take shots but UPS loses both!!  Wow.  I have seen every team play this year except Whitman and LC is the quickest.  Tillery appears to be my front runner for POTY.  As a Pirate fan I was hoping to say B Williams would be the man at this time of the year but its just not happening.  Losing Jones during crunch time really has hurt BW's options, but I do think they have found their new identity at WW and its inside.  Symes and Hasenfus are quite good in the post, but got limited by LC's active defense and shot way below their averages.  Hats off to LC. Nice win.

I think WW will take the GF gift and slide back to Spokane with the precarious 1 game lead and wonder how to avoid playing at LC for the Conf. Tourney Champ. game.  UPS must be in self check mode. LC still has UPS at home.  WW still goes to UPS.  WU wants respect! 

February is GO time!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on January 28, 2007, 05:02:22 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 28, 2007, 03:46:56 PM
David Collinge:

I agree with you about the Whitworth broadcasts on KSBN. Bob Castle does a great job. However, I must respectfully disagree about the commercials, especially Columbia Hearing Centers, which is a classic. I'd love to have a wav or mp3 of that one so I could have it play when I boot up my computer. I just wish I lived near Spokane so I could get my car checked over at Golden Rule Brake Service.

OxyBob
Some people only watch the Super Bowl to see the commercials.  I will be tuning into the next broadcast to see what the fuss is all about.  What a way to increase the Nielsen Ratings. ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 28, 2007, 06:11:28 PM
I just got my car checked over at golden rule...seriously.  The Pirates were held to just 36.4% shooting in the second half, and 44.4% for the game.  I wasn't at the game (listened to most of it) so I couldn't tell if Whitworth was just off or if LC was playing good defense, forcing Whitworth to take bad shots.  Bryan Williams got in foul trouble early...very early, which will be trouble for the Pirates no matter who they're playing.  The good thing is UPS blew their chance to take the lead in the conference and Whitworth finally gets a weekend home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 09:15:27 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 28, 2007, 03:46:56 PM
David Collinge:

I agree with you about the Whitworth broadcasts on KSBN. Bob Castle does a great job. However, I must respectfully disagree about the commercials, especially Columbia Hearing Centers, which is a classic. I'd love to have a wav or mp3 of that one so I could have it play when I boot up my computer. I just wish I lived near Spokane so I could get my car checked over at Golden Rule Brake Service.

OxyBob

I'm thinking about buying a used car from Dollar Resale, whose commercials are so hokey that I wouldn't be surprised if their telephone number were BR-549, and then taking it over to Golden Rule to be serviced.  But Columbia Hearing Centers....oh my.  :o  Just thinking about that jingle makes my ears bleed.   :P :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 29, 2007, 02:18:43 PM
The Loggers had a real let down of a weekend.  Dropping two games in a row is not gonna make things any easier for them to start the second half of league play :-\, especially when they lost to very beatable opponents.  Give credit to WU and GF for coming ready to play.  From the scores it looks like the UPS defense was horrible against Willamette and the offense was horrible against GF.  I didn't see either so I can't be sure.   Bcats, any thoughts from the WU game?

It's no time to push the panic button but with games still to play at LC and against WW the logs better step it up and start putting together some wins.  Tied for second is not a bad spot to be, however there's a tough road ahead to getting a tournament birth. 

Does anyone know why Foster didn't play against GF, I haven't seen any reason yet?  Not an excuse, but it seems like the outcome would have been much different had their leading scorer played. 

BTW, L and C is looking REALLY TOUGH, I would say its past time they get thrown into the league champ conversation.  They seem to be getting better as the year goes on, I think they have a great shot at making some noise towards the end of the year...they are bad news for UPS/WW!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 29, 2007, 02:53:09 PM
Yes the losses this weekend were suprising, but all it really did was put a real damper on the bid for multiple NWC bids into the tourney.

UPS still controls their own destiny towards the first seed, except now there is a "must win" situation for them down at LC.

Whitworth is still in the driver's seat for the first seed, but barring another even more catastrophic UPS meltdown between now and Feb. 9, they still have to go into UPS and beat them to get the top spot.

LC is now more clearly in the picture for an NWC playoff spot, but they still need help if they want that first seed.

Realistically, not too much has changed, but it sure has made things more interesting!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 29, 2007, 03:01:27 PM
Good call Gil.

I agree that LC will need some help to get the number 1 seed, but they are on a serious roll right now.  I think they have a great chance at being the most dangerous team in the league at the end of the year, especailly if UPS doesn't pick it up pretty soon. 

And you're right, the NWC really shot itself in the foot in terms of trying to get two bids for the tourney.  Looks like the conference playoff champ will be the only one going. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 29, 2007, 03:05:43 PM
WU looked very good against both UPS and PLU this weekend...maybe its a bit too late, but their ability to play at different tempos and with different lineups has been a big plus factor in their recent 3-game winning streak...

Now, with LC and GF's upsets, they are still two games out of the playoffs, but with games at Pacific and at LC this weekend, they can get themselves firmly back in the race...

With WU's erickson, Whitworth's Jones, GF's Heu-Weller, and now Foster, the NWC is missing some primetime players from some teams...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 29, 2007, 03:58:12 PM
I have to concur with everyone else about the weekend - very interesting results.  A couple of observations -

Someone might argue that the UPS "slump" actually goes back four games, rather than just the last two.  Logs, you mentioned you didn't think the team looked sharp in either of the wins at home the previous weekend.  The challenge ahead for the Loggers is they still have to play both Whitworth and L&C within the last six games.

Whitworth's lack of outside shooting really hurt on Saturday.  With B. Williams getting in early foul trouble, the only real outside threat was Young, and you can always cover one outside guy.  They need Jones back.  If he is able to get back in the lineup by the Tacoma weekend, I think the Pirates will win out.

I think L&C is a year away from being the real favorite.  They are a soph/junior dominated team and whatever happens this year will just be a stepping stone for next year.  Glad to see Gaillard still has the fire.

Congrats to Willamette on getting things going.  I am sure the Bearcats felt like they "owed" one to UPS after letting the Tacoma match up get away late in regulation.  They will be a factor down the stretch, but two games will be tough to make up for third place. 

Any team at .500 or better in the league still has a shot, however, so things are going to be really fun down the stretch.  Only Linfield and Whitman figure to just play out the string at this point (but credit Linfield - which looks like its still trying to get better).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 29, 2007, 04:04:15 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 29, 2007, 03:58:12 PM
The challenge ahead for the Loggers is they still have to play both Whitworth and L&C within the last six games.


Not to mention an up-and-coming Pacific squad who handed UPS and L&C early conference losses this year...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 29, 2007, 04:23:28 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 29, 2007, 04:04:15 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 29, 2007, 03:58:12 PM
The challenge ahead for the Loggers is they still have to play both Whitworth and L&C within the last six games.


Not to mention an up-and-coming Pacific squad who handed UPS and L&C early conference losses this year...

Speaking of Pacific...what is up with their bleachers that look like they are about 15 feet too short?  It just looks like a weird empty gap between the sideline and seats.  Are they planning on trenching out a moat?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 29, 2007, 11:22:35 PM
just a thought on two teams from the nwc making the tourney...  I think there is still a fairly decent chance of that: 
If WW rolls off their last 6, then loses in the nwc championship game they will be sitting at 23-3.
I don't think that you can keep that team out of the tournament.

Also if WW wins 5 of their last 6 in league and ups wins 7 of 7 then WW wins the 2nd third place game to play ups for the championship, I think both teams get in regardless of the winner.  UPS would be at 21-4 before the championship game and WW would be at 23-3 before the game.  Definately bubble for UPS especially, but I think they would have a shot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 30, 2007, 04:23:38 AM
Quote from: bucs77 on January 29, 2007, 11:22:35 PM
just a thought on two teams from the nwc making the tourney...  I think there is still a fairly decent chance of that: 
If WW rolls off their last 6, then loses in the nwc championship game they will be sitting at 23-3.
I don't think that you can keep that team out of the tournament.

Also if WW wins 5 of their last 6 in league and ups wins 7 of 7 then WW wins the 2nd third place game to play ups for the championship, I think both teams get in regardless of the winner.  UPS would be at 21-4 before the championship game and WW would be at 23-3 before the game.  Definately bubble for UPS especially, but I think they would have a shot.

Overall records are meaningless as far as the D3 tourney selection committee is concerned, bucs77. There are five primary criteria that the committee considers when doling out the Pool C berths on Selection Sunday:

* regional winning percentage
* Quality of Wins Index
* W-L record vs. regionally ranked teams
* head-to-head record vs. other regionally ranked teams
* record vs. common opponents with other regionally ranked teams

I'm not going to calculate the QOWIs for Whitworth, Puget Sound, and Lewis & Clark, although you can do that yourselves if you like. The only one of the five primary criteria that can be readily distinguished is regional winning percentage. Whitworth's regional record is 14-2, which makes the Pirates' regional winning percentage .875. Puget Sound is currently 11-3 in regional play, which puts the Loggers at a .786 winning clip. L&C is 8-4, so the Pioneers stand at .667.

Last season, the lowest regional winning percentage among Pool C teams belonged to Illinois Wesleyan, which was .714 in regional play. Consider that your baseline in terms of where your respective teams need to be in order to get considered for an at-large berth should they fail to win the NWC tourney and get the league's Pool A bid. There are four other criteria to be considered, of course, but regional winning percentage is certainly as important, if not more important, than those other four.

In other words, right now both Whitworth and Puget Sound appear to be in good shape for NCAA tourney berths should either team fail to win the NWC's automatic bid. That's contingent, of course, upon maintaining their respective winning paces over the last six or seven games of the regular season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 31, 2007, 12:32:28 AM
Pac. Lutheran led UPS by 15 with 6:42 left, but over the next 4:30 the Loggers have forced six turnovers and have gone on a 15-1 run.  They now trail by just 1 with 2:19 left.

UPDATE:  0:54 left, PLU calls timeout clinging to a one point lead, 86-85.
UPDATE:  Brooks misses a jumper, UPS rebounds, DeLong scores to put the Loggers up for the first time in the 2nd half, 0:18 left.
UPDATE: McDaniels misses, Dressler rebounds but has it stolen by UPS' Williams, who gets a timeout (presumably to avoid a tieup or out of bounds call) with 0:02 left and UPS up one.
UPDATE: Brooks fouls on the imbounds play, DeLong converts the free throws, and UPS salvages their season with a great comeback, 89-86.  UPS finishes the game on a 23-5 run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 31, 2007, 12:22:58 PM
WOW, the Loggers are really living life on the edge right now.  I'm certainly happy for the bounce back win last night, but it shouldn't take last minute heroics to win...AT HOME...TO PLU(4-7 in conference)!!!  Being down by 15 in the second half and needing a 23-5 run in the last six minutes is not a good thing.  On the bright side, It's great that they had it in them to make a succesful comeback, but I can guarantee nobody on the team was real happy about that performance.

Right now the Loggers are barely keeping their heads above water in the race for another NWC championship, they really need to step it up if they expect to have a shot at the tourney.   From the numbers, it looks like offensive production is not a problem, however the D needs to pick it up in a big way.

It looks like Krauel, Marsh, and Foster(good to see he's back!) all had nice games against PLU.  They still have a great record for being such a young team and they have plenty of talent to make some noise late in the season.  I'm confident that they will still be able to pull off a NWC title.  To start with, they have a great oppurtunity to avenge a loss this weekend.  Pacific is coming to town, I'm sure the Logs will be ready to go.  Should be a great game and I'm looking forward to watching!!!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 31, 2007, 01:59:15 PM
UPSoundlogs, gutsy for your boys to find a way to pull it out, and you're right, they are living on the edge, and they can't be happy.  A win is a win - and it's important they got it, but looking at their last 5 games, squeakers at home against LC and Linfield, 2 road losses, and another squeaker at home against PLU, it's safe to say they are not "playing well". 

Is something goin' on within the squad? 

Has there been any word on Lunt and his "interim" status? 

Like it was posted earlier, there's no need for them to push the panic button, but the concerned buttom should be mashed on right about now.

Never thought I'd be saying this in Lowery's second year, but my Boxers have a shot at the season sweep this weekend.  Won't be able to make it up Sounds, but give us a good eyewitness report.  I will be at the Pacific/Willamette game, both sitting at 5-5 the loser can kiss any run at the tourney away, the winner still has an outside shot.  Should be an entertaining 3 weekends!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 31, 2007, 03:23:51 PM
NWCer-  I'll try to give a decent eyewitness report for you. 8)

As for Lunt's interim positive...

In my opinion they should do everything they can to keep him around.  He has had some really big shoes to fill with this years UPS squad.  Over the last few years the Loggers have pretty much dominated the NWC as well as made it deep into the tourney, including the elite 8 last year.  In losing a head coach AND graduating 4 key seniors last year, Lunt has been stuck with a "rebuilding" year at UPS.  So far he has managed a great record and is seated at 2nd in the conference with a team that doesn't have a senior and starts mostly sophmores.  By UPS standards, I would consider it a down year, but under the circumstances they have had great success and should have a very succesful future with the players they have.  Lunt has had great experience with past UPS squads, knows his players well, and knows what it takes to win not only a NWC championship, but take a shot at the National championship as well.  I think he has a bright future as the head coach for the Loggers. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 31, 2007, 03:38:21 PM
Good points Logs,

Success does breed crazy expectations, although I wouldn't call UPS's season a "rebuilding" year, they were still picked to finish 1st, and they may start mostly sophomores, but they're VERY GOOD ONES.  Whoever gets that job should be in a good position, would any other NWC people agree that the infrastructure that is at UPS makes that the "best job" in the conference?  (along with Whitworth, maybe Linfield and Willamette, I don't know, any thoughts?)

Let me know what you think of my Boxers Logs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 31, 2007, 04:00:01 PM
NWCer

I just meant "rebuilding" as compared to the last few years.  UPS had only lost 4 NWC games in the last 3 years, and always had a solid senior class to rely on.  This year they have already lost three and their main players are very young.  I agree with you that it isn't a true rebuilding year though...I was just trying to make a point. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 31, 2007, 04:30:35 PM
I knew you were just making a point Logs, just messin' with you ;)

Just funny to see the "rebuilding" word next to a team that's been ranked all year.  They're good, but as you mentioned, not the "UPS good" of the last 3 seasons, although they're still in good shape to get another title.

A different subject, didn't Linfield used to be a year in and year out solid team.  What has happened to their program ???  Not bustin' chops, just an honest question.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on January 31, 2007, 06:20:05 PM
I just realized this, but UPS now owns a 33 game conference winning streak at home. Their last loss at home against a NWC foe was during the 2002-03 season against Lewis & Clark. That's a pretty impressive streak. Hopefully, I didn't jinx the team though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 31, 2007, 09:56:56 PM
NWCer, I have an opinion cloaked in this story I posted on page 32 of this branch

QuoteThis is not a comfortable true story but it helps diagnose symptoms of why LINFIELD has become only a football/baseball school.

   One rainy Christmas vacation 7-8 years ago I wandered on down to Long Beach City College to see a high school basketball tournament. It was absolutely great. In the next couple of months I saw Jared and Jason Collins, Paul Pierce, Baron Davis, Tremaine Fowlkes, Tyson Chandler, Tayshawn Prince, Jason Kapono, among others, play high school basketball. Some I got to watch for 4 years.
   The number one rated L.A. City team that season was Fremont.  I happened to see them play and found out a kid I knew when he was 10 was on the team. I discovered that he had been an All-League defensive back that football season and that he had been one of the fastest guys in the City in the 200m the previous couple of years. He was not a starter on the b-ball team that lost the City Championship game to Crenshaw (again) but he did have a career game in the City Finals.
His physical stature was about 5'9", 165 lbs. I remember him being a good student and I saw "LINFIELD" written all over him. I checked around about the new NCAA provisos and I sent an LA City championship game tape to the coach.  No response.
   Six months later at a Homecoming game I sought out the basketball coach, introduced myself and asked if he received my tape.
AND I QUOTE  "We thought he was too good for us."!!!!!!!!
With my jaw still drooping on my toes I chance to run into a Hall of Fame football coach from LINFIELD who shook his head and told me I should know his response would have been much different.
   

It's a fact LINFIELD used to be a basketball school with a few NAIA baseball titles thrown in.............along with THE STREAK.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 02, 2007, 12:37:15 PM
Thanks D.O.C., good story.

Predictions tonight?

Lewis and Clark should be OK at PLU and Fox Should be OK at Whitman, but won't be shocked if the games go the other way.  I don't think Linfield has a chance in Spokane.  Most even game I would say is Willamette at Pacific.  I looked at Willamette's stats and they are just as bad on the road as Pacific is good at home, good sign for my Boxers.

Bearcats, will you be in attendance tonight?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 02, 2007, 01:14:06 PM
Wow D.O.C.!!! 
Good stroy...If Linfield really does recruit like that for their hoops team it not only hurts them, but the rest of the NWC too.  The more talent you can bring into the league the better and with Linfield's facilities and success in athletics they should be able to get some of the best players in the NWC.  Do you know if they have changed coaches since your story took place?  Because even though they don't have much talent right now, a few years ago (even as recent as the 03-04 season I think) they have had some fairly high profile transfers.  I think they even had one transfer from Oregon State(I'm not 100% positive on that though). 

NWCer-
Your Friday game predictions are right on in my opinion, Except I think Whitman has a really good shot at beating GF.  Could be a heat check for WU at Pac tonight, they have been playing well as of late.  However, they have been winning at home. We'll see if they have what it takes to win on the road at one of the tougher gyms to play in. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 02, 2007, 11:58:42 PM
Start of 2nd half with Ww up by 7.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 03, 2007, 12:40:35 AM
The best team in the NWC 71, the run-of-the-mill "Remember when we had fun?" DIII team 58.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2007, 02:36:33 AM
Pacific looked good tonight against Willamette, especially in the first half, their posts are quite a handful, and Harison Davis is pretty talented.  I saw a UPS coach in the stands scouting, I'm sure they'll be ready tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2007, 09:29:08 AM
Yea, UPS better be ready for Pacific tonight.  I doubt another PLU effort will keep that impressive streak going.

But the good news was seeing James Jones back on the court for WW!!  His return will clearly help the Pirates chances of winning out the season.  Lot of smiles in Spokane last night as he led his team.

LC is having the same run WW had the end of last year.  They are now a strong 2nd spot in my book after UPS's miracle win, terrible effort Tuesday.

Logs imagine this tourney scenario, Thu at LC then Sat at WW.  Gonna be rough.  The reign is over.

Did I mention James Jones was back?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2007, 11:19:19 PM
WW 13 GFU 2 early and now Whitworth 16-13.  13:24 left.  Good comeback by the Bruins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 04, 2007, 01:51:40 AM
Got the great Nike Extravaganza H.S. tournament here in the County.
Lake Oswego knocked off Mater Dei on their home floor tonight.

Hmmm....should I watch Oak Hill or Dominguez play tomorrow or the Super Bowl?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on February 04, 2007, 06:32:24 AM
D.O.C.


Might I give some help, It's called TVO!
night all...................Colts by 9.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 05, 2007, 10:34:53 AM
The Loggers played a great first half on Saturday night, probably the best I've seen them play so far this year.  The press looked really good and they had a ton of energy, they got out to a nice lead and then... half time happened.  The second half was not pretty...lots of fouls, lots of bad shots and while it never looked like Pacific would actually win the game, they made a pretty good second half run. 

What I thought was interesting was that Pacific decided the best way to beat the press was to throw touch down passes over it!  It didn't seem like a tough problem for UPS to solve(just put a taller guy in the back of the press)but they didn't for some reason and the long bomb gave them problems all game, I bet Pacific got an extra 12 points off of it. 

My biggest thought of the game is that UPS doesn't have the same killer instinct that they have had in the past, they get big leads and then start playing to the level of their competition.  If they would simply continue to play at the same high level all game long no one in the NWC would stand a chance.  Hopefully they figure it out pretty soon, if they do they have the talent to run the table easily...JJones or no JJones. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on February 05, 2007, 01:04:01 PM
I have been out of a comission for a little bit, but it looks like the NWC has kept pace for the most exciting last two weeks of NWC basketball in years.  The first seed is on the line in Tacoma on Friday night, and with Jones back (the proclaimed Logger Killer, I guess we should call him "Falling Timber" from now on) it sounds like both the UPS and WW squads will be in full force.  I do not care how UPS or WW has been playing of late, I doubt that either team will fail to bring everything they have for this one.

Back on October 15 we probably all could point to February 9 on our calendars and knew that first place would be on the line that day, but I doubt anyone would have predicted that it would possibly be on the line again Feb. 16 down at LC.....that is if UPS is able to hold through the weekend.  Looks like Pio fans have more than one team to route for this weekend.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2007, 09:29:08 AM
LC is having the same run WW had the end of last year.  They are now a strong 2nd spot in my book after UPS's miracle win, terrible effort Tuesday.

Logs imagine this tourney scenario, Thu at LC then Sat at WW.  Gonna be rough.  The reign is over.

Did I mention James Jones was back?

NWHoops-

Pretty bold prediction.  I am not sure if I could write off the three time defending champs that easily.  Logs, any thought on this one?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2007, 01:47:31 PM
As an outsider who has taken an active interest in the NWC this season, can someone please instruct me as to whether there are any historic, traditional rivalries within the conference, and if so what they are?  I realize that Whitworth and UPS have a bit of a rivalry based on recent success at the top of the standings, but is there anything about these two that goes back in time?  Are there perhaps traditional geographic rivalries, such as UPS/PLU or Linfield/L&C?   Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 05, 2007, 04:00:37 PM
DC-

Since they are within 20 minutes of each other in Tacoma, PLU and UPS have had a pretty heated rivalry in all sports for many years.  When every sport is taken into account, the two schools are both very succussful/ evenly matched and form a great cross town rivalry.  But you are correct in that the UPS and WW mens basketball teams have had a big time rivalry recently.  Bcats, Gil, and Pinecone can fill you in on some of the other "traditional" rivalries from around the NWC. 

Gil-

You are right it is a bold predicition from NWHoops, but for this year I would say he is somewhat correct. The "Reign" of UPS basketball isn't quite as dominant as it has been.  Although I believe the Loggers still have a great shot at making the NCAA tourney, they don't strike fear into the NWC quite like the last few teams have.  However, the "Reign" will start up again next year so I'm not too worried about it.  UPS is a sophmore dominated squad, WW is a senior dominated squad...you can do the math.  WW seniors may be able to hang with UPS sophmores this year, but next year and the next several years will be a different story.  With Foster,Krauel,Delong,Williams,and Marsh(to name a few) all returning for UPS and BWilliams, JJones, KHes, etc. graduating for WW I feel sorry for the rest of the league.  So enjoy this year while you can, UPS still has a great shot at the NWC crown and it's a "down year" for them ;D. 
Title: Rivalries
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 05, 2007, 04:52:25 PM
As far as rivalries go for the WU:

1. Whitworth: but, having not beat them in awhile, that is not a true "rivalry" right now
2. Linfield: Used to be HUGE, but the Wildcats have been down for awhile now
3. LC: Willamette (until being swept this year) had dominated the previous 4 years


On a sidenote, the Bearcats got swept and are finished...was at the LC game...disappointing to see....but the Pios are very good....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 05, 2007, 05:01:44 PM
I have to agree with Bearcats - the Whitworth-Willamette rivalry has been a great one to watch since the early 90's.  It seems like either Whitworth or Willamette won the NCIC title for most of the 90s (with a couple L&C and one Pacific thrown in).  I remember some great battles between Friedrichs' Pirate teams and James' Bearcats. 

It seemed the rivalry was rekindled in Hayford's first year at Whitworth when Willamette won both regular season meetings, but then Whitworth won the playoff game in Salem.  The Pirates have won the last few...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 05, 2007, 05:35:51 PM
BCats- 

I have to agree with you about the Pios...very good and very dangerous!  It's too bad about WU this year, the NWC isn't quite the same without them in the hunt for the championship.  Do have any thoughts on how they will shape up for next year, or are they gonna have a few troubled years in a row ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2007, 05:46:00 PM
Thanks all...

Willamette/Whitworth is not a rivalry I'd have guessed, since they're so far apart.  Is it entirely based on success, as pineconefan seems to suggest, or is there something else fueling it?  Not that there's anything wrong with a success-based rivalry; I'm a graduate of Wooster, and although there isn't really anything "natural" about our rivalry with Wittenberg, it's still pretty intense. 

With both Whitworth and Whitman so isolated geographically, I'd guess they have no "natural" rivals, at least none in the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 05, 2007, 06:21:35 PM
David -

The Whitworth - Willamette rivalry is based on the teams' success, plus a series of tightly contested contests.  In addition, over the course of the last 15 or so years, I think that those two schools have had the consistently best followings of fans.

Certainly UPS is on a fan upswing with the late success, and Linfield had a serious home court advantage for a couple of years.  But over the long haul, Whitworth and Willamette have had the best (IMO).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 05, 2007, 10:35:10 PM
Any thoughts on the tuesday game this week?
   A tough pacific team who would like nothing more than to play the role of spoiler vs. an LC team that is playing very well as of late.
My prediction is 77-70 LC.

Also fellow NWCers......there has been some talk already on other boards about the SCIAC getting two teams in over the NWC.  Doesn't make much sense to me seeing that the NWC is 8-4 against the SCIAC this year and with WW, willamette and Pacific easily handing CAL LU and Redlands barely beating our bottom dwelling Whitman
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 05, 2007, 10:36:30 PM
I just read my post and I shouldn't have said over the NWC as if one of the two leagues has to get two teams in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 06, 2007, 11:55:42 AM
Quote from: bucs77 on February 05, 2007, 10:35:10 PM

Redlands barely beating our bottom dwelling Whitman

Whitworth  62
Whitman     59

I see your point!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 06, 2007, 12:19:15 PM
JR- 

Thanks for stopping by, but I think this is more the picture Bucs was referring to.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Bucs.

NWC Standings

Whitworth         10 2
Puget Sound      9 3
Lewis & Clark     9 3
George Fox        6 6
Pacific (Ore.)      6 6
Willamette         5 7
Pacific Lutheran 4 8
Whitman       3 9  
Linfield               2 10
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 06, 2007, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on February 06, 2007, 12:19:15 PM
JR- 

Thanks for stopping by, but I think this is more the picture Bucs was referring to.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Bucs.

NWC Standings

Whitworth         10 2
Puget Sound      9 3
Lewis & Clark     9 3
George Fox        6 6
Pacific (Ore.)      6 6
Willamette         5 7
Pacific Lutheran 4 8
Whitman       3 9  
Linfield               2 10


Maybe I'm missing the point, but Bucs seemed to imply that a SCIAC second place team barely beating a NWC 'bottom dweller' means that the NWC is head and shoulders above the SCIAC...therefore, I merely illustrated that even your first place team barely beat your 'bottom dweller'...that's all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 01:40:34 PM
Logs was correct. And JR I noticed you avoided the fact that our 6-6, and 5-7 teams beat your first place cal lu. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 06, 2007, 01:53:35 PM
Quote from: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 01:40:34 PM
Logs was correct. And JR I noticed you avoided the fact that our 6-6, and 5-7 teams beat your first place cal lu. 

First, I didn't start these comments, you did...and I didn't avoid the above, I chose to address the point you offered regarding Whitman...I could have easily mentioned Cal Lu's victory over L&C, but I didn't because you only referenced Whitman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 06, 2007, 02:13:01 PM
Bucs,

I think it's possible that the SCIAC posters are in a some denial of how weak their conference truly is.  I'll give them Occidental, but after that there is a dramatic fall off.  Some of their posters are asking why Redlands and Cal lu are not recieving votes/being ranked :D...comon now ???  

The NWC is certainly not a national power conference by any means, but at least we can face the facts and not beg for LC/Pac to gain national attention simply for beating UPS/WW.  One win over a good team doesn't mean anything...even LC has taken some bad losses to even out their solid wins this season.  Gotta keep it in perspective ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 02:59:46 PM
couldn't have said it better myself logs.
Back to our own conference...... which is ranked 6th by the massey rankings with the sciac at 21st.

Who do you like in the PAC LC game tonight.  Obviously I'll be rooting for a Pac win, but my guess was 77-70 LC.   

Also it maybe a little early for weekend predictions but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the UPS WW game will go down to the last minute.

WW 91 UPS 86   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 06, 2007, 03:46:13 PM
Bucs-

Where did you get that conference ranking?  Thats pretty cool, I had no idea the NWC was ranked that high!

As for the game tonight...I'm also hoping for a Pac win, but to be realistic and with the game being at LC I'm gonna have to say LC 72-62. 

Then for the big show this Friday, obviously I have to go with my guys pulling it out in the last few minutes...UPS 85 WW 83!!!  My prediction is its gonna be an awesome game, however since UPS will be at home and more desperate for the win they will pull it out...Can't wait!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 06, 2007, 03:48:02 PM
We'll have a much better idea about where each conference stands with regard to a second berth once the regional rankings come out this week.  If a conference has two or more teams ranked regionally, that is a good sign.  Although to gain an at-large spot, a team will have to be pretty high in the regional rankings at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 06, 2007, 04:22:55 PM
SCIAC is #13 in the Massey ratings without MOV, and #21 in the Massey ratings using MOV (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1).

Most observers seem to think that the MOV ratings are the more accurate.  I believe the non-MOV ratings were devised because the NCAA didn't want D1 teams running up the score on inferior opponents, so they mandated that MOV could not be part of the selection process.  I think Massey is part of RPI, whatever that is, or maybe the BCS in football (since I don't give a rats patootey about D1, I'm not clear), so Kenneth Massey came up with a bastardized version to satisfy Indianapolis.

All the evidence you need is that Lake Erie is #2 in the non-MOV rankings.  Using the MOV algorithm, they drop to #33.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 06, 2007, 04:53:33 PM
Bucs and Logs,

I can go with your predictions, and their honest ones considering you both want my Boxers to win and you're predicting LC.  With LC being so good at home and Pacific struggling on the road, I'll say it's 50/50 at best.  I was at the last two Pac/LC games, last year's Pacific blowout win and this year's Pacific OT win (after a dominating 1st half), so hopefully there's a confidence thing going on in Pacific's head that will help them pull through tonight.  Looking forward to catching tonight's game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2007, 04:54:27 PM
Give it up Collinge, although I agree with you, you've started an argument with an old Oxy fan who will not stop arguing your topic until he is either dead or has such a severe case of carpel tunnel that he can no longer type (but even in that case he'll just get one of those voice recognition programs so he can continue to rant).  Either way I don't think anyone can argue that the SCIAC is stronger than the NWC this season (even Oxy Bob didn't argue that point), but the top 2-3 SCIAC teams would give the top NWC teams a run for their money week in and week out if they were to play each other frequently.  Anyways...even though the game is at LC, it's two teams who rely on their ability to shoot the ball and I'm gonna venture out and say LC goes a little cold tonight.  Pacific 72  LC 68
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 10:29:54 PM
Oxybob I didn't know there was a ranking with and without MOV either.  I just went off of the one that I came across.   Just like 509 rat said I think a few interesting games would be:

WW vs. Redlands  Edge to WW

OXY vs. LC         edge to OXY

UPS vs. Cal Lu.  Edge to UPS

I would actually like to see UPS vs. Redlands the most

How 'bout next year we create a SCIAC/NWC Challenge like the ACC/Big Ten Challenge?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on February 06, 2007, 10:44:24 PM
Quote from: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 10:29:54 PM
How 'bout next year we create a SCIAC/NWC Challenge like the ACC/Big Ten Challenge?
Good idea.
Next year there is going to be a PAC 10/Big 12 challenge, too.
The difference is revenue (DI) vs expense (D3).  :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 11:04:25 PM
true, but we can dream
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 11:08:14 PM
same as last time...I can't get the radio to work for the PAC LC game.  If someone is listening and wants to give updates a few times I would appreciate it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 06, 2007, 11:19:32 PM
MOV vs. non-MOV. It all hinges on what you want -- do you want a BCS type of ranking or an RPI type of ranking? If you want the BCS style ranking, then use the non-MOV. If you want a real ranking, you better use margin of victory.

Quote from: OxyBob on February 06, 2007, 04:38:24 PM
Nice to know Oxy and Whitworth get some credit for beating Caltech by a million points.

Hardly. I am pretty sure Massey caps the value of a game's MOV at well short of the 77 points Oxy beat Caltech by. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 12:08:25 AM
Thanks Pat.   So you would say MOV is better?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 12:10:40 AM
Any news on a halftime score? LC/ PAC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2007, 12:22:29 AM
Quote from: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 12:08:25 AM
Thanks Pat.   So you would say MOV is better?

I think it seems more accurate. Neither one is perfect but I think that just throwing the score out the window isn't very enlightening.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 01:02:41 AM
looks like LC smashed PAC tonight.  It all comes down to the UPS WW   and LC WW games for 1st 2nd and 3rd
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 01:03:10 AM
i meant ww ups and lc ups  games
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 07, 2007, 07:33:03 PM
Maybe I can't add anymore, but shouldn't Whitworth's overall and regional records listed in this week's regional rankings be 19-2 and 16-2?  They seem to be missing a win in there, which could have an impact.  Even without the Walla Walla game, I still get 18 regional counters, according to the schedule on this website.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 07, 2007, 08:43:28 PM
Pineconefan,

Your math is correct, I was looking at the same thing as well.  They have Wheaton down as a region game, yet they are a midwest region team.  Take that one out and everything adds up.

After my daughter's game last night I went to catch the second half of the Pac/LC game.  LC offense was clickin', they could make noise in the conference tourney, and if they play the way they did the second half last night, they could make noise in the "big dance".  My Boxers are another recruiting class and a couple of athletes away.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2007, 12:55:29 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 07, 2007, 08:43:28 PM
Pineconefan,

Your math is correct, I was looking at the same thing as well.  They have Wheaton down as a region game, yet they are a midwest region team.  Take that one out and everything adds up.

Wheaton/Whitworth is a regional game:
http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=44
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 08, 2007, 02:10:40 AM
OK Pat, thanks, so where's the missing game Pinecone noticed?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2007, 02:11:36 AM
I don't know, but I'll take it up with the NCAA along with the other apparent errors, just as in previous years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 09, 2007, 01:56:19 PM
Well, its been pretty slow around here fellas...

Huuuuuuuuge game tonight with WW and UPS facing off, it could decide who gets first in conference(although I realize LC still has a say in that)... most everyone has already voiced their opinions and predictions about the game.  I've got to admit UPS is looking like an underdog, especially from our little posting community here.  But I'm confident...it's gonna be a great game to watch and I think the home crowd will be a big part of the LOGGER VICTORY!!!  Both teams are very talented so I'm excited to see who comes to play and who decides to be a no show(player wise).  I think the Loggers are overdue for a season defining/ signiture win and this is gonna be it!  Go Logs!!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 09, 2007, 02:28:22 PM
Word on the street is that BWilliams is out with an injury for Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 09, 2007, 02:53:02 PM
WOW!!! If that's true it would be a huge blow to WW.  However, I still think they will be more than capable of beating UPS if the Loggers don't come out ready to play, anything can happen in a game this big.  With first place in the NWC on the line I'm sure WW will come out with big time intesity.  I'm not gonna lie, the game won't be the same without BWilliams...but I won't be sad to see him sitting on the side line in street clothes. 

Thanks for the info NWC bball fan.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 08:17:47 PM
Two questions, since I don't pay attention to the NWC too often.

Why do they only have THREE in the conference tourney?  There are 8 teams, wouldn't it be logical to take the top four and play a Friday semifinals, Saturday finals?

Why is there a March 10th game scheduled (listed on this site), UPS v Williamette...one, they've already played each other twice and two, that's tourney time baby!  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:17:03 PM
My guess is that the March 10th entry is a mistake.  It's deleted, but we appreciate the heads-up.

And the NWC used to not do any playoff at all.  Maybe a travel issue?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:18:15 PM
If anyone's having problems with the Whitworth stream (like I was), here is one from KLAY:

http://www.klay1180.com/live_radio.htm
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2007, 11:37:30 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:18:15 PM
If anyone's having problems with the Whitworth stream (like I was), here is one from KLAY:

http://www.klay1180.com/live_radio.htm

But how am I going to improve my life through better hearing if I have to listen to KLAY?  ??? ;) :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 11:48:20 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 09, 2007, 11:37:30 PM
But how am I going to improve my life through better hearing if I have to listen to KLAY?  ??? ;) :D

After listening to KLAY for that long, your ears will really be Aiken, for sure.  >:( :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:54:25 PM
Wow.

I didn't get the American Idol reference until OS hammered it home. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:54:25 PM
Wow.

I didn't get the American Idol reference until OS hammered it home. :)

Egad...my reference was not to "American Idol."  Ick...ick...ick...:P...I never, ever watch that horrible show.

My reference should be recognizable to anyone who's ever tuned in KSBN for a Whitworth Pirates broadcast.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2007, 12:07:47 AM
I've never watched it either...but sometimes you can't get away from hearing about it via newspaper, tv etc...and that country woman who won it last year (Underwood?) is pretty attractive.

Stevens Point hosts the worlds largest trivia contest every year.  Our team tries to take notes on tv, movies, books etc.  As part of my loyalty to my team, I suffered through the movie, From Justin to Kelly, a horrible "musical" starring two of the original American Idol performers, and of course Kelly Clarkson won the first year, or something like that, right?

I seem to know a lot about this American Idol for never watching a single show!  Seriously, I've never watched it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 10, 2007, 12:54:24 AM
Ahhh, yes.

The hearing commercial that airs on KSBN.  I've only listened to a couple Whitworth games but I do remember that spot now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2007, 12:55:59 AM
Whitworth 82, UPS 80. 0:51 and UPS steals the ball...jump ball arrow to Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2007, 01:04:52 AM
UPS makes 1 of 2 FTs with 5 seconds left...84 all to OT.  UPS had a 7 point lead at the half (I think) and Whitworth blew a late lead.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2007, 01:14:13 AM
Only took Whitworth 4+ minutes to score their first points of OT.  UPS up 8 with 40 seconds to go in OT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 10, 2007, 03:23:20 PM
UPS shoots the lights out against Whitworth once again...over 50% from beyond the arc (I think it was around 52-53%, and just before regulation ended they were shooting over 60%).  Foster was under 30% from three point range on the season and went 6-7.  Whitworth's defense is to blame...I like their philosophy, just pack it in and make people beat you from beyond the arc, slow the game down and let your highly efficient offense do its thing.  But you'd think against a UPS team that has done that to you plenty of times some adjustments would be made.  Oh well, Whitworth should still make the conference tourney, and I don't think UPS will shoot like this for a third straight time against the Pirates, but I've been wrong a lot lately (and that's even assuminng that the Pirates can beat a dang good LC team if that matchup ends up happening first).  Whitworth has left themselves without any room for error and has to win out to eve think about getting a single home-game in the tourney.  And am I correct in thinking that UPS and LC still have to play each other one more time?  and if so, when?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 10, 2007, 03:23:20 PMAnd am I correct in thinking that UPS and LC still have to play each other one more time?  and if so, when?

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Puget%20Sound&team=mens

There's all sorts of useful and interesting information all over D3Hoops.com!  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 10, 2007, 11:41:39 PM
Thanks, Collinge...I was trying to just get the answer without having to do any extra work.  That link was very nice of you though.  You could have just said "Yes" but I wouldn't want you to have to go to all that trouble.  I'm sure that posting the link was much less work than those three letters.  Anyways, UPS lost to Whitman tonight, Whitworth beat PLU...I would post the scores and their records but that nifty link Collenge used tells you everything you need to know.  As a Whitworth fan I will now be rooting for UPS next week.  If they beat LC (here's a hint, shoot like you do against the Pirates and this one wont be close) then Whitworth can gain sole possesion of first place in the conference as long as they take care of Whitman and Willamette again.  So untill next week is over...GO LOGGERS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 11:44:59 PM
Wow...touchy.  :-\  I just thought maybe you didn't know there were easily-accessible schedules on this site.  So sue me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 11, 2007, 02:31:53 AM
After watching the UPS win Friday and my man J Jones play his worst game in two years, I thought dang, "Those Loggers just have our number".  A great shooting night, a effective crowd and 5 fouls on the non injured B Williams (with 3 minutes to go) doomed the Pirates.  I think Foster just went to PTY status in my book.  Incredible shooting by this guy and every one that went in was a no doubter. Why doesn't he throw more of those 3's in any other conf. games?

All that being said....

The Logs lose to Whitman, and I again start to think WW is a better team but then back to point A, they have beat us twice.  I give up, but I do believe that homecourt is worth a minimum of 6 pts and all 3 top teams are within 5 points of each other, maybe 3 on a neutral court.

Go UPS (gulp) on Friday vs LC and hopefully a tired WW team (60 percent FT % this last weekend) can get by in Walla Walla and shut down a potential spoiler in Willamette.

LC holds their destiny in their own hands, can they win out?

I love college basketball!!  Where's my defibrilator?


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2007, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 10, 2007, 11:41:39 PM
Thanks, Collinge...I was trying to just get the answer without having to do any extra work.  That link was very nice of you though.  You could have just said "Yes" but I wouldn't want you to have to go to all that trouble. 

Quote from: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 11:44:59 PM
Wow...touchy.  :-\  I just thought maybe you didn't know there were easily-accessible schedules on this site.  So sue me.

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.  Show a man how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

Sometimes you gain a lot more respect when you do your own "homework"...and there are a lot of posters that don't know of all the useful links on this site, but sometimes even I get lazy.  ;D :D ;) ::) :P

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 12, 2007, 10:32:25 AM
The Loggers really showed their youth this weekend :-\.  Just like I've been saying all year long, they play to the level of the game.  On Friday against WW they played the best game I've seen them play all year long...and then on Saturday against Whitman they played the worst I've seen them play all year long.  If they ever gain some consistency they will be a very tough team.  They have tremendous talent, but they just need to use it all the time instead of on and off. 

Fridays game was highly entertaining with a great crowd.  As has already been stated, Jason Foster played a great game and looked like a POTY!  BWilliams was probably the best player for WW, although he may be the cheapest player in the NWC you can't deny his effectivness...until he fouled out(that lost them the game by the way).  I wasn't that impressed with Symes, although this was the only time ive seen him play in person, I thought he would have had more of an impact in such a big game.  He had a couple nice blocks and pull up jumpers, but in my opinion he was just OK. 

On Saturday it was all Whitman, I have to give them a lot of credit.  For a team that is on the bottom of the league they came into Tacoma and played with a lot of confidence.  Great performances by Warner, Hazel, Faidley(9 threes I think!!!) and Born.  If Born was on a team with a winning record he would be a serious candidate for POTY. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 12, 2007, 05:50:27 PM
Faidley did hit 9 threes...guess how many he shot?  10!  He shot 90% from thee point land...I guess the UPS fans felt saturday how us Pirates felt friday night.  Oh well, its still anyone's conference especially this year...home court through the tourney would be nice but with these 3 teams it isn't a necesity.  They have all been capable of winning and losing big games at both home and on the road.  Is Whitworth the only team in the NWC that does an internet broadcast?  and if Collinge was wondering I will check this out on my own but...does anyone know if LC does a live stat tracker like some of the other NWC teams?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2007, 07:26:26 PM
UPS does -- I listened to it Friday night because Whitworth's was full.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 12, 2007, 09:31:59 PM
Thanks Pat, I'll have to try and get that and the whitworth one up and running this tuesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2007, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2007, 07:26:26 PM
UPS does -- I listened to it Friday night because Whitworth's was full.

As did I.  And the live stat tracker.
Title: End of the Year
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2007, 11:23:57 AM
A.  I've asked this before, but can someone explain how WW cannot beat UPS, WU cannot beat WW, yet seemingly can beat UPS every year in Salem...I guess it comes down matchup issues, and some teams just match better against others...

B.  What a big loss by the Loggers Saturday, especially after having all the momentum from the Whitworth sweep...big letdown

C.  WU has one chance to make this season mean something...By beating the Pirates on Friday...sure it won't knock Whitworth out of the NWC tourney, but it could cost them home court, and it could cost them a national tourney bid....either of which should be enough motivation to go at your rival on the last weekend of an underwhelming season

D. To answer the question from last week about next year, WU brings back 4 out of 5 starters in Nugent, Mansfield, Smith and McClary...in addition, Cantrell, Costantino are back from the bench... they need to find a point guard who can play either off the bench or start, and then some depth for the bench, but bringing back 6 players who all played major minutes can't hurt...then again, if those players don't improve, you're looking at the same team that just went 10-12, or whatever they finish...

E. I would lean towards WU being vastly improved, as you look at their home record of 8-2, and realize they were in close games at LC, Pac, and Linfield, and you could argue that its a young team simply learning how difficult it is to play in the NWC night in and night out...us long time 'Cat fans can only hope this season of noncontention is an aberration...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 13, 2007, 12:15:44 PM
"A.  I've asked this before, but can someone explain how WW cannot beat UPS, WU cannot beat WW, yet seemingly can beat UPS every year in Salem...I guess it comes down matchup issues, and some teams just match better against others..." - B-Cats

This has left me with many sleepless nights as well ???  I was thinking about this very topic the other day and I have come up empty.  It doesn't seem to matter how good of a season UPS has, they can't beat WU in Salem.  To confuse me even more(with the exception of this seasons triple OT) UPS slams WU by 30 every year in Tacoma.  I'm not sure what makes up this huge difference, except that WU's gym is a VERY tough place to play...Sorry bcats, no creative answers here.   

Good luck to WU against WW, I hope this mystery doesn't ring true and the Cats are able to come up with a big win over the Bucs!  After biting the dust against Whitman, UPS now needs a maricle in order to get homcourt advantage for the NWC tourney and a WU win would be a huge help! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 15, 2007, 02:09:38 PM
So................... GO UPS!!!
Never really wanted to say that before, but with the current situation I think it calls for it. 
I think the odds are against LC here though.  They will have to win two very tough games and then assuming they win the first two, a third to get into the ncaa tournament against either UPS or WW.   Also if WW wins friday I have to think that they are in good shape for the ncaa tourney even if they don't win the league tournament.  They would be at 22-4 or23-4.   

Logs-
   I saw that Delong was ejected from the game against Whitman.  Does this mean he is not playing on Friday aginst LC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2007, 02:16:34 PM
I'm with Bucs, Go loggers.  No matter how much it pains me to do so I will be rooting for UPS this evening.  And my guess is that only one stat will really matter tonight....3pt %.  Whichever team has the highest 3pt % will win this game tonight.  Both teams have lost games when their 3pt shooting has been off, no matter how they are shooting from the field (except for UPS v. Willamette, but whenever you let someone score 140 pts it doesn't matter how you are shooting from anywhere on the court).  Willamette is too young to beat Whitworth at home tonight...Pirates by 10.  Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure they have yet to win a road game in conference play.  Sorry bearcat fans but I don't think you'll get your first tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 16, 2007, 03:27:27 PM
Hey I like all the Logger support Fellas ;D...even if it is only for this one game :-\!  I think Rat hit it on the head though, tonight it's gonna come down to who can shoot a good percentage from the field.  If UPS doesn't play decent transition defense and allows Tillery to slice through the lanes for easy layups again... its not gonna be pretty for the logs.  They need to come out pumped up tonight and give a big time effort like they did last Friday against WW.  Correct me if I'm wrong but LC hasn't lost at home all season, it's gonna take a great game from UPS and probably a little luck to pull off the win.  I have faith though, I've got Loggers 91 and LC 87! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 16, 2007, 03:30:17 PM
Also...Bucs, good question about Delong.  I haven't heard anything one way or the other.  I would assume that he is gonna have to sit this one out though.  I believe the rule is if you are ejected you get a one game suspention.  Anyone have details ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2007, 12:33:52 AM
UPS was getting smoked by 18 with about 15 minutes to go, they've got it down to 11 or so now...about 11 minutes to go?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2007, 01:16:01 AM
UPS goes down 98-86 to L&C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 17, 2007, 01:46:25 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 12:01:18 AM
Egad...my reference was not to "American Idol."  Ick...ick...ick...:P...I never, ever watch that horrible show.
Hah... I don't think Kelly Clarkson or Carrie Underwood are that bad. With that said, I don't watch the show either, and only found out they were on American Idol after I first heard their music. People have been trying to get me to audition for American Idol for AGES, however. So, not that I would ever try, but I have to ask the hypothetical... would you watch if I was on it David?? Hmm??? ??? :D

If it makes you feel better, since I know you detest pop music, someone at my old church asked me if I was a professional singer after hearing me sing along to the christmas carols at our Christmas service in December. Given the nature of the service and the music, I assume he meant classically.  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2007, 03:22:14 AM
Well, my 3pt % theory has been disproven tonight with UPS shooting 37.5% and LC shooting 30.8%.  But it looks like Lewis and Clark played some tough d, holding UPS to only 43% form the floor on the night.  Anyways, now I guess I'm a George Fox fan.  Go...what is george fox's mascot again?  Oh yeah, GO BRUINS!

Now I will be looking this up, but does anyone here know off the top of their head how this potential tie-breaker between WW and LC will work?  I would assume head to head would go first but they split that, so then maybe that whole common opponents thing?  I don't know, but if I figure anything else out I'll post whatever I can dig up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2007, 03:24:15 AM
Well, THAT was quick.  According to the write-up on Whitworth's website...

"Whitworth must await the outcome of tomorrow's L&C-GFU contest to know the date of its next game. Should L&C win, the Pioneers will have the NWC's top seed and Whitworth will host UPS in a semifinal on Wednesday night. If Fox wins, Whitworth will play in Friday night's NWC tournament final against the winner of a rematch between L&C and UPS."

So now I'm a huge Bruin supporter!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2007, 07:28:51 AM
Nice win Pirates and nice bricklaying by the Loggers in the first half.  Good D or not UPS is the streakiest team in show business.  LC outrebounds by 19 for the game....that's the apparent difference last night and Delong did play.

LC at Fox on Homecoming, ANYTHING can happen and usually does.  Go Foxy! (...mind thinks about the show Drawn Together, too funny)

LC is very good at home and a desperate Logger team in Spokane is dangerous.  Its a tough road to the top, but WW can and will do it.  My favorite stat: B Williams, 2 fouls (in the last 3 games).  If he's in, we (WW) win.

I suspect UPS will fall out of rankings on Monday so 2 teams to tourney is no shoe in...








Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 17, 2007, 02:20:41 PM
QuoteI feel your pain

I get a feeling what it's like to have no chance in football.
It's maddening having no dog in this basketball race.

If LINFIELD should manage to outscore UPS tonight, would that have any bearing on the playoff situation?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on February 17, 2007, 03:03:50 PM
Hi D.O.C.,

I think UPS is 2 games back of WW and L&C with 5 Loses. If I'm not mistaken each team just has one game left.
Either way UPS will have to play a game to get to the Championship of the NWC tourney. And I think with a win tonight WW raps up 1st. So L&C would play UPS 2/24 to see who Plays WW.

Kinda Sad the Game tonight doesn't have more impact, but a win for the Cats would be nice. UPS always tries to run up the score on the Cats. Will see tonight. It's Dad's weekend, so maybe we will have a big crowd.

I agree with nwhoops, I think only 1 team gets in the Big dance unless WW doesn't win the NWC tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 17, 2007, 03:51:06 PM
Rat - I noticed this afternoon that Whitworth has updated its website to say that the Pirates have the top seed.

So the Bucs would host the winner of UPS-L&C next Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 17, 2007, 04:26:22 PM
I think you are right pinecone.
   I just read the tiebreakers on the coference website and it looks like WW wins #4 tiebreaker
Here they are:

6.1.2 In case of a tie in the regular season Conference standing affecting
post-season advancement, tie shall be broken by:
1. Head to Head competition in conference games only  ---- they split so this is a tie.

2. Results against all teams above those tied in conference games
only  ---- no teams are above LC and WW so it does not apply

3. Results against above teams in rank order in conference games
only---- again no teams above LC and WW so it does not apply.

4. Order of losses beginning with the 9th seed and moving up to
the tied teams ----WW wins this because LC lost to
pacific and WW has only lost to LC and UPS

Let me know what you guys think but it reads to me that WW wins the tiebreaker
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 17, 2007, 10:03:33 PM
Thank-you  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2007, 12:01:16 AM
Yea it does look like the WW SID updated the WU win press release and the (odd) tiebreaker procedure rankings do favor WW.

So I guess I dont have to listen to the GF/LC game but I still am...3:49 left first half and GF up 30-18.  UPS game is meaningless, except for the dads.

Go GF and give the Pirates the outright title!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 18, 2007, 08:32:24 PM
Thanks for the info pinecone and bucs77.  Lewis and Clark is absolutley on fire but UPS is still a good team (albeit a very inconsistent one).  I liked how Whitworth closed out the season with an easy win over Willamette, shooting over 60% from the floor.  So now for predictions...who wins, UPS or LC?  I'll give the nod to LC @ home by 3...87-84.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 19, 2007, 09:18:14 PM
Going to favor Lewis and Clark. Perhaps success will bleed over into their football program and interest some alumni again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 20, 2007, 01:25:52 PM
I've been out for a few days and missed a lot of the convo...

My thoughts about last weekend...OUCH!!!  Looks like the Logger defense didn't bring an inspired effort to the game at LC.  Although there is still a chance for them to get the tourney auto bid(an at large is out of the question now), UPS will have to take the most difficult road to get there.  Traveling to LC and then to WW will be no easy task, but depending on which UPS team decides to show up for those two games they can still make it happen.  In my opinion they have an excellent chance if the inspired/energetic/tough defense Loggers show up.  They have shown the ability to beat tough teams this year so there is no reason to think they can't beat LC and WW.  Good luck to UPS tomorrow night!!! 

Whatever happens in the NWC tournament I hope we send a worthy representative to the national tourney that can do some damage and make some noise for our conference. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 12:37:26 PM
NWC Tourney Predictions?

All-Conference/Player of the Year/Coach of the Year Predictions?

I like LC over UPS and LC to go on the road and beat Whitworth giving the NWC two teams in the tourney hopefully (although they'll most likely will just play each other)

From the games I saw and looking at the stats, for all conference I like

1st team
B. Williams
Symes
Tillery
Bergren
Born

2nd Team
Foster
Satern
Bartlett
Krauel
Nugent

Can't really put my finger on a player of the year.

And a lot of worthy honorable mentions, starting with the UPS guards, Parker, HarisonDavis, Faidley, Timperly, Toboni, etc.

With LC being picked to finish 4th and finishing in a tie for 1st with that long winning streak I'd have to go with Gailord for coach of the year

Let the debating begin............................
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 01:24:29 PM
Tourney Predictions...

I think its pretty much a toss up between all three teams.  Obviously since I'm a UPS fan I've got faith that the Loggers will be on an up swing in their streakiness (because they haven't been playing well lately) and pull off two road upset wins for their forth conference championship in a row!!!  Realistically, the home teams have a huge advantage which makes WW the favorite...Go UPS though.

All NWC Players...(POY should go to the best player on the team that wins the NWC tourney)

1st team(no particular order)

Foster
BWilliams
Born
Tillery
Krauel

2nd team(no particular order)

Nugent
Bartlett
Faidley
Toboni
Bartlett

COY... LC's coach
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 02:30:48 PM
Logs, I hate to bust your bubble, but UPS will not be winning their 4th straight title.  The conference tourney title is for the automatic bid only.  Accoring to the by laws "the conference champion will be determined by the best win-loss percentage in conference games, in case of a tie, teams shall be declared co-champions".  UPS came in third   :'(, their run of titles is over, regardless of what happens in the conference tourney, Whitworth and LC are the conference champs.

http://www.nwcsports.com/information/governance/bkbprocedures2-07.pdf
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 02:35:46 PM
Whoops ???, I put Bartlett on there twice...just noticed that.  Replace one of them with Symes. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 02:40:38 PM
"Logs, I hate to bust your bubble, but UPS will not be winning their 4th straight title.  The conference tourney title is for the automatic bid only.  Accoring to the by laws "the conference champion will be determined by the best win-loss percentage in conference games, in case of a tie, teams shall be declared co-champions".  UPS came in third   , their run of titles is over, regardless of what happens in the conference tourney, Whitworth and LC are the conference champs."

NWCer,   

Touche :o...I didn't even think about that when I was posting earlier.  You are of course correct on that fact...I retract my previous statement...Sorry for the misunderstanding :-\. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 02:50:09 PM
No apologies needed logs, just wanted to make sure everyone knew that info, I know there was confusion about it last year as well.  You're a true fan, you stick by your boys. 

Do you think they can pull both off?  That would be a major accomplishment to beat both co-champs on the road.

I saw that you had Bartlett down twice, I thought you just really liked my Boxers  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 02:51:00 PM
I am curious how high Whitman would have had to finish for Born to get serious consideration as Player of the Year?  He still might get it, but I wouldn't bet on it.  But if he was playing on one of the playoff teams, he be a shoe in (IMO).  

Any thoughts?  If Whitman had finished .500 or just above, would the coaches be more likely to consider him the Player of the Year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
And I would agree with both COY choices so far, Gaillard has to be the guy this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 02:58:56 PM
Pineconefan, I can see Born as POY, Leading rebounder and scorer, not bad, and it's not like he played in a system where you would get inflated numbers.  You have to consider him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 03:21:05 PM
Without Borne, Whitman may not win a game.  He led the league in scoring and rebounding.  That is a hard thing to accomplish.  The coaches would be hard pressed not to pick him for POY.

Gene Rivera should get some love, too.  Anyone who has seen LC play would say that he could be the MVP of that team.  He defends from the 1 to the 5, depending who the opponent's best player is,  and he handles the ball when Tillery is out.  Watching him play this year was fun.

Borne
Williams
Tillery
Jones
Krauel

Krauel
Rivera
Bartlett
Marsh
Satern
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 03:23:31 PM
Oops, take Krauel off the second team and add Berggren
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 03:24:47 PM
Bigfella,

Welcome to the board.  Interesting take on Rivera.  You may be right about him being the key to that team, but I think to most outside observers, he gets lost behind Tillery and those three point shooters.

Interesting rematch tonight for your guys.  How do you think the fact that UPS and L&C just played five days ago will impact tonight's game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 03:30:44 PM
Remember, the coaches pick the all-league teams.  And, I am sure they all were impressed with Rivera.

I think it will be a good game tonight.  Both teams will be ready, I think.  Playing a team twice within a week is tough on both sides.  Whoever controls the boards and turnovers should be fine.  It will be a fun game to watch, though.  It is win or go home for both.  Neither will get an at large.  If they don't get the auto, it will be recruiting and preparing for next year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 03:58:59 PM
When does the all league team come out?

Just some jibberish on some topics:

Dissapointments - Willamette, UPS, Linfield (even though they were picked to finish last, how can a place with those resources be so bad?).

Surprises - Whitman winning at UPS, LC winning the title (I think they were picked 4th), Pacific finishing 4th.

Thoughts on tourney - I think Whitworth is the best team, but LC is playing the best, and I think UPS is in a whole lot of trouble

Next year - LC loses nobody, Whitworth loses a lot, UPS loses nobody, Pacific loses nobody, Fox loses a lot, Willamette loses very little, Whitman loses a lot, Not sure about PLU, and don't think it really matters about Linfield (being a Boxer fan and having them dominate us for so long, feels good seeing them struggle  :D)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 04:37:59 PM
Welcome Big Fella, 

It's always nice to see someone besides the usual (3-5) suspects around here.  I'm not judging your all nwc picks, just curious as to why no Jason Foster?  He is the second leading scorer in the league and one of the best rebounders too, he seems like a shoe in to me. 

NWCer,

I think Bartlett is a good player, but not enough to fill two NWC spots ;D.  I agree with your "thoughts on the tourney" LC is playing the best bball of any team in the conference right now.  If they can get past a spirited UPS team tonight, I think they have a great chance of beating WW. 

Pinecones,

I think if Born was on a team with a winning record he would have to be POY.  He may be the goofiest looking bball player in the league but you can't argue with 19pts 11rbs...if his team had more wins.  He's certainly a first teamer this year though, even if Whitman is in the cellar. 

Thoughts for next year...

WW is gonna take a serious nose dive, graduating everybody good but Symes is not gonna be helpful for 07-08.  LC will be very tough once again, Rivera and Toboni are coming back(I think ???).  Those two are what makes LC go, they are physical and both play great defense.  UPS will return to the top of the league next year, they will have senior leadership, it won't be Lunt's first year as head coach, they have great returning guards and if Krauel and Foster gain 10 pounds each in the weight room they will be completely unstoppable.  As for the rest of the league, I look for WU to regain some power and Pacific to be in the mix as well.  Not sure what the bottom feeders will do, especially Whitman who loses Born, Faidley, and Warner...OUCH :o!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 05:56:56 PM
Foster is a great player in this league and he could be a first teamer as he deserves recognition.  I am only going on the games I have seen in person.  But when UPS needed a bucket, it was time to get it to Krauel and Taylor Marsh hit bis shots when needed.  Not to say Foster hasn't, but from watching, it seemed pretty clear who they relied on when it was go time.

And Bartlett was consistant throughout the season while the other big cat was not available.  He held that team down.  14 and 9 is a good year on a team that doesn't score much.

And, you never know what will happen as to next year.  Whitworth lost two all-league players including the MVP and returned to the top.  They will get three jucos and two good frosh and be right back in the mix.  UPS return a lot and bring in good players.  I think Pacific will bring in players, also.  There are teams with advantages and those teams will never really hurt for good players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 06:24:28 PM
Big Fella,

I guess I can understand your reasoning on Foster, he must have played pretty poorly when you watched him :-\  Obviously we are all entitled to our own opinions about players in the league, although it does seem a little strange to judge a player on a single game ???  oh well...
By the way I'm glad you mentioned Marsh in your picks, he's had a great season. 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 06:39:48 PM
I have seen Foster play in multiple games, actually.  And, he is a great player who is deserving of props and he definitely gets props from me.  I just think that other teams work on how to stop Krauel on the inside and how to limit Marsh from getting off.  And, I think Foster is in a situation sort of like Borne, but on the other end.  If he were on a lessor team, he would shine more than the other stars out there.

In my opinion if you lose Marsh and/or krauel from this team, UPS is a 5th or 6th place squad.  But, the way your team plays with their backs against the wall, someone might step up, so what do I know.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 07:42:23 PM
Bigfella,

You are right, with the way Hayford has recruited over the years, Whitworth won't "nosedive" next year.  I don't think they'll be conference champions again, but they could certainly challenge for the NWC tournament.

L&C has EVERY player back next year.  UPS has nearly every key player back.  Those two teams should be the clear favorites for next year.

One will get a leg up tonight...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 07:44:34 PM
Big Fella, I can see your analogy regarding the UPS personell, good points.

You're also right about Whitworth, I think their coach is too good to just take a dive because he's losing some key guys, I'm sure he'll find a way to reload.

I also hope you're right about my Boxers bringing in guys, like I've said in earlier posts, Lowery needs to bring in some athletes, that seemed to be the difference between them and the top 3 teams this season IMO.  Funny you say that they will never really hurt for good players, I hope you're right, because we had a stretch there where that wasn't the case, hopefully things will be different now.

And I saw my Boxers in about 10 games this year, though awkward looking out there, that Bartlett is consistent like you said, and always looked impressive in the box score.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 07:47:45 PM
Pineconefan, we think alike, Whitworth will find a way to be in the mix next year.

UPS and LC are the clear cut favorites, they do bring everyone back, but does UPS bring back their coach?  Does he lose the interim tag or do they bring in someone else meaning we've seen the last of the system?  Regardless, Williams, Delong, Marsh, Kraeul, and Foster will be good in any system.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 08:16:29 PM
Coach Lowery does a good job with what he has and I am sure he sees the need for better athletes.  They have a strong base with the inside guys and a hungry scorer in Harrison.  Add two one athlete to that coupled with the maturation of all those frosh he had and you have a scary team.  It really would be sracy if he let them open it up a little.

UPS is by far the most talented team top to bottom and will be for a while.  The scary thing is, what if they do drop the system and just play teams straight up where there aren't 50 lay-ins per game for the other team. 

LC's coach has been in the mix for years.  They seem to have gotten back where they were actually used to being.  I think Bridge would say that he learned a lot while being Gaillard's assistant.   

Hayford works hard at it and has a pipeline in Cali Jucos (Delta, DVC) so he will not hurt and they have guys on the bench now that can play.  It just seems like he likes to play only seven.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 21, 2007, 11:54:50 PM
sorry I have been away for a bit.  Out of town for a funeral.   Glad to see the board is lively.  Listening to the game tonight and so far so good for LC.   I think if you asked a WW fan they wouldn't actually care who they played in the Championship,  they might want UPS to get another shot at them, I dunno.   In looking at the at large bids it also doesn't look like WW is any guarantee.  It would be tough to leave home a team with 22 wins and a few solid wins in pre season as well as co champs in the NWC, but to be sure they have to win.  I just hope that if they do win they are not shipped out to minnesota or SOCal because of budgeting issues.  In 2002 WW was hosed a bit when they won the NWC and the conference tourney and was sent to Gustavus Adolphus because it was cheaper to then bus them to Wisconsin rather than pay for the gusties to come to Spokane and then both to fly back if WW had won.   I don't think that the commitee realizes how important home court is in the Playoffs let alone the NCAA tourney.  I know money is a factor however in decision making and has to be.

On my All NWC Team I have

COTY:  LC Coach
POTY:  BWilliams WW

first team:
     Foster
     Born
     Symes
     Tillery
     Kraul

Second:
     Bartlett
     Satern
     AWilliams
     Taboni
     Nugent?
     Faidley?
     Harrison-Davis? (Not sure about that last spot)

Honorable mention:
  Good Luck to the coaches here there are a ton:
Marsh, Parker, Timperley, Dressler, Brandeberry, Warner, Berrgren, Rivera, (Any of the other WW starters)   GOOD LUCK!!

Looks like a final LC66 UPS60   
Anybody watch the game?   why such a low score?     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Seattle Buc on February 22, 2007, 01:19:30 AM
Hello everybody,
I am an Whitworth alumnist and currently live in the Seattle area.  Because of the distance between myself and Spokane, I can only follow the bucs and the NWC through looking at stats, box scores, press releases, and this message board.

Congrats to LC on their big win tonight at home vs the always dangerous team from UPS.  In looking at the stats and catching the end of the broadcast, it sounds like UPS went cold and LC turned up the D.  It is shaping up to be a great one in Spokane on Saturday.  Lets not forget that Whitworth was not anywhere near full strenght when the two teams met at LC.  My brother who lives in the Portland area went to that game and it sounds like BWilliams early fould trouble really dictated the outcome of that game.  Plus not having James Jones in line up was very costly to the Bucs. 

As for all the talk about the All-NWC team.....  It is a little suprising to me that Tillery is in talks of being a first-team selection.  His numbers are roughly 11 ppg and 5 rebs.  For a point guard his 2. something assissts a game are not that impressive.  From what I have heard, he is no threat what so ever to shoot the ball.  Now with that said... I agree he is a good player and maybe a good 2nd-team selection but first is a bit of a stretch.  Like I said before, I am a stats guy and apparently so are the other people on this site for picking thier all-conference teams.  However, you have to play in 75% of the games to be listed on the season stats on the conference web site.  James Jones from Whitworth missed 6 games with an injury (4-2 record during that stretch) and looking back at the stats not a Whitworth starter played against Cal Tech.  Therefore, Jones is not registering on the stats page.   How can bucs77 be leaving him of his list???  Anyway Jones appeared in 18 games and is averaging 16.6 on a team that has 5 players averaging double figures.  He would rank #2 in ast/to ratio, #3 in 3pt fg %, #4 in scoring, steals ppg, 3pt fg made, #9 in fg percentage (for a guard) and minutes played pg, and #10 is assists.  Additionally for conference games only he is averaging 17.3 ppg which would place .2 behind Born and Foster.  His conference only numbers also increase in other categories as well.  Accoring to a few guys I still talk to back at Whitworth, he probably would have been a front runner for POY had he remained healthy all year.  I realize now that is a far stretch, but a first-team All-NWC seems pretty obvious.  That is of course if you only look at the current conference stats that appear when you click on the link.  I would bet the coaches will get it right when they vote. 

Also, BWilliams is probably the best choice for POY, but I agree that Born from Whitman deserves some strong consideration.  Foster from UPS made a late season case for it during his Whitworth/Whitman weekend as far as the stats go.

Again, these are just some observations from a long-distance fan.  I would love to make it to the fieldhouse on Saturday and bring back some old memories, but I don't think I will make it.  I will definately by listening to Bob Castle.  If the Bucs host an NCAA game, I might just have to re-schedule some appointment and take the short flight to Spokane.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2007, 01:34:59 AM
I was at the LC/UPS game tonight and the scores were low because of poor shooting, not necessarily defense.  Both teams were colder than I've ever seen them!   Lots of missed shots, no shots & turnovers!  Thought UPS was going to take over during the first half, but LC got it together in the 2nd half.  LC  trailed by 8-10 points most of the game but when they finally took the lead, they stayed there.  Very loud crowds for both sides.   What UPS's crowd lacked in size, they made up for in noise!  No one seemed to like the refs, what's new?  Entertaining game.  Not sure if LC can beat Whitworth, especially if they play like they did tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2007, 02:19:40 AM
Seattle Buc, Tillery as a first-teamer is no stretch, would be a crime if he isn't, there's more to it than stats - he averages 11 on a very balanced team and 5rpg is nothing to sneeze at - more than a number of starting post guys in the conference.  LC is a spread you out and isolate team with a lot of ball handlers so he's not making "the play" or "the pass" every possession the way a B. Williams or the little PG from Fox does, so his low assist average is not surprising.  He's the engine that makes them (conference co-champs- hottest team in league) go.

Tillery, B. Williams, Symes, Born, any could get POY, and all are deserving IMO.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2007, 05:10:39 AM
Quote from: bucs77 on February 21, 2007, 11:54:50 PM
In looking at the at large bids it also doesn't look like WW is any guarantee.  It would be tough to leave home a team with 22 wins

The overall record is irrelevant. Regional wins -- or, more specifically, regional winning percentage -- is what's important. A Whitworth loss to L&C in the NWC title game would drop the RW% of the Pirates down to .826 (19-4), which is still excellent and quite worthy of Pool C. However, the QOWI of the Pirates is currently 9.909, good for 36th in the nation, and it would drop with a loss to L&C. The whispers over in the Pool C room are that a QOWI of 10 are going to be needed to get a Pool C berth. Add that to the fact that Whitworth is only ranked sixth in the West Region at the moment, and you're looking at a team that's seriously on the bubble if it loses the game to determine the NWC's automatic bid.

Quote from: bucs77 on February 21, 2007, 11:54:50 PMand a few solid wins in pre season

Non-conference, not preseason. ;)

Quote from: bucs77 on February 21, 2007, 11:54:50 PMI just hope that if they do win they are not shipped out to minnesota or SOCal because of budgeting issues.  In 2002 WW was hosed a bit when they won the NWC and the conference tourney and was sent to Gustavus Adolphus because it was cheaper to then bus them to Wisconsin rather than pay for the gusties to come to Spokane and then both to fly back if WW had won.   I don't think that the commitee realizes how important home court is in the Playoffs let alone the NCAA tourney.  I know money is a factor however in decision making and has to be.

I can almost guarantee that the sectional will be played somewhere other than on the West Coast. The only two West Coast teams that are ranked in the region are #5 Occidental and #6 Whitworth. Neither is high enough to warrant hosting a sectional, especially when the all-important travel costs are worked into the equation.

In fact, no matter who wins the NWC title game, I can foresee a situation in which the NWC rep and Oxy are the only West Coast representatives in the tournament. In that case, it'd be easy to imagine the two teams being paired against each other in a Thursday night opening round game (at whichever team ends up higher in the West Region rankings on Selection Sunday) and the winner then being shipped to play at a team that drew an opening-round bye, presumably UW-Stevens Point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2007, 07:34:52 AM
It's translators like you that caused the Punic Wars to last 120 years, Bob. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 22, 2007, 10:49:08 AM
First off,
Congrats to UPS on a solid season.  LC came up with a big win last night but 3rd place is pretty good for such a young Logger squad and Coach.  I know they will be back next year strong as ever. 

For the Saturday showdown with WW and LC....
  I gotta say that WW is the heavy favorite in this one, home court advantage is huge and now that they are healthy WW is a very talented team.  LC is a tough/physical/athletic team, but I think WW will be too much for them.  I also think the Bucs will have the best chance against national competition because they are bigger than LC, more experienced, and have a great guard in BWilliams.  Obviously, I will be cheering for whoever wins though(atleast smash the SCIAC :D)...good luck to both teams. 

As for the national tourney...
I can all but guarantee there will be no at large bid for the NWC.  Additionally, I definitely agree with Oxybob, there is no way Oxy or WW(or should I say the SCIAC or NWC) will host a regional this year.  Niether team is ranked high enough in region, nor gets enough respect nationally to host.  Plus UW Stevens Point is back as a powerhouse which means whoever wins the SCIAC vs NWC showdown is sent as a sacraficial lamb to be dominated by the Pointers...have fun with that by the way, being a UPS fan, we just love those Pointers :-\!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 22, 2007, 11:53:09 AM
The game last night was a great one to watch.  As a basketball fan, it was good to see coaches make adjustments, even when they just played five or so days ago.  UPS bringing their guards to the front court to pressure instead of having Foster at the point of the press.  And, Gaillard adjusting to that and bringing in a third and fourth ball handler to take away that pressure.  it is the little things that changes games.  UPS didn't score a field goal for almost nine minutes in the second half.  LC turned up the defense and got to the UPS shooters, while keeping the ball from the inside. 

Some say if LC plays the way they did last night they won't win Saturday and I disagree.  If some thought the game game was sloppy with missed shots and turnovers, you were right, and you would understand playing one team within a week is the hardest thing to do.

Whoever makes it out is going to have a tough time because the tourney is set up for the teams back east to win.  Congrats to UPS for what they have done  in recent years to bring more games to our coast.  The only team from our league to make it will be the one who wins on Saturday.  If LC would not have lost to Cal Lutheran, then maybe there could have been a chance, but not now.

But, in a one game situation, I would not count againt Bob Gaillard, no matter where the game is played.  He prepares his teams to get down.  No disrespect to the other coaches around, but if you look at the history of LC inthe play-offs at Wisconsin schools, the games have been there to win.  So, I think LC is better suited to win on the road out there.

Lastly, whoever doesn't think Tillery is a first teamer needs to call a couple(all) of the head coaches in this league.  I am sure they will tell you what the deal is.  That kid can flat out go.  With or without a "jumper" he is a HOG on the court.  As U of Portland, Hawaii Hilo, U or Oregon........  He gets down, especially in the big game.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 22, 2007, 12:39:58 PM
QuoteLinfield (even though they were picked to finish last, how can a place with those resources be so bad?)

I am not kicking a dead horse at this moment.

Quotedon't think it really matters about Linfield (being a Boxer fan and having them dominate us for so long, feels good seeing them struggle.)

Cannot blame you. One must take the sour with the sweet when our tongues are so equipped.

So with a neutral mode on I would like to see a playoff game hosted in SoCal for the selfish reason that I can watch it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 22, 2007, 01:20:11 PM
sager,
            my 22 wins comment was based on the fact that you only play about 25-26 games before playoffs which would mean a good winning percentage.  And as for all the travel talk I hop whatever happens saturday WW gets sent to mexico to play againts the mexican national team while oxy has to play the canadians, then assuming they both win, they can play eachother.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2007, 04:40:05 PM
Wow, I don't post for a little over a day and this board really heats up.  There's too much to comment on everything but a few things that I remember thinking as I read is that...if UPS only gets one player named as first team all-conference it will (and should) be Foster.  I agree with OxyBob that we in the West get screwed...didn't UPS make enough of a run last year in the tourney to garner us some respect?  But then again it would cost the NCAA way too much money to fly the midwest teams to so-cal or spokane...and we all now the NCAA can't stand to lose a few thousand dollars, their whole organization would crumble.  Finally, Whitworth over LC at home...63-57.  Like Bucs and pineconefan have said, this Whitworth team is back at full strength (health wise) and have played well in their last couple of games, I wouldn't look for them to let up at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 22, 2007, 05:15:26 PM
I have to apologize for my missed assessment of Jason Foster.  He played like a warrior last night.  I always thought that we was great, but be took it a step further.  It only makes me think, "why isn't he the focus of their offense??????"
Foster had one play run for him all night, and it was a make shift post up play. 

And, why isn't Pickney more of a player there?  He is a freak athlete and plays extremely hard?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 22, 2007, 05:48:20 PM
Bigfella,

I'm glad you were able to re-assess your opinion of Foster by seeing him play again last night.  He is a great player and I was slightly confused as to why you didn't think he was a crucial part of the UPS squad.  I don't think he gets many offensive plays ran for him in part because of the UPS "run and gun" system and also in part because they have so many other offensive options(Awilliams, Delong,Krauel,Marsh, etc).  However, I think for UPS to get the most out of their team next season they need to realize who their go to guys are and make a point of getting them the ball more(Foster and Krauel).  The other guys may take a slide in their stats but the team will be better as a whole. 

As for Pinkney, you are right he is very talanted and athletic...he really just needs to get more confidence out on the floor.  Right now he doesn't get enough playing time to get comfortable.  It's kind of funny because everyone sees how effective he is when he gets the chance to play... yet he never gets much consistent playing time to prove himself.  Hopefully adjustments will be made and he will find a more significant role in the Logger rotation next season. 

Once again...Great season Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 22, 2007, 08:46:43 PM
I always have felt that Foster was crucial to that team, but 1st team crucial was the question.  The make-up of the team showed that the totem pole went from little 22, to Krauel, to Marsh, so on, so forth.  Therefore, their touches increased in more important times, when those it should have probably have gone to Foster.  First team doesn't always mean stats.  It is the importance of that player to his team added into the stats. 

Last night, Foster, with no plays run for him, went to work and kept them in the game when it got dicey.  When ALL others were ineffective, he manned up and went to work.  Stats don't show it, but he put put fouls on guys, made tough plays, and showed why he is a first teamer.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2007, 05:14:33 AM
Quote from: bucs77 on February 22, 2007, 01:20:11 PM
sager,
            my 22 wins comment was based on the fact that you only play about 25-26 games before playoffs which would mean a good winning percentage.  And as for all the travel talk I hop whatever happens saturday WW gets sent to mexico to play againts the mexican national team while oxy has to play the canadians, then assuming they both win, they can play eachother.

Don't set your sights so low. Hope for the Belize regional for your Pirates.

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 22, 2007, 04:40:05 PMI agree with OxyBob that we in the West get screwed...didn't UPS make enough of a run last year in the tourney to garner us some respect?  But then again it would cost the NCAA way too much money to fly the midwest teams to so-cal or spokane...and we all now the NCAA can't stand to lose a few thousand dollars, their whole organization would crumble.

As much as I enjoy reading all the paranoid rumblings that emanate from the left-coasters every year around this time, it's not as simple as being a matter of "respect" or lack thereof. The five primary criteria listed in the D3 men's basketball championship handbook that are used for selection and seeding purposes do not include "respect" among them. Those criteria are:

* regional winning percentage
* regional Quality of Wins Index
* in-region record against ranked teams
* in-region record head-to-head
* in-region record against common opponents

According to those criteria, Oxy is currently fifth in the West Region and Whitworth is currently sixth. That's a recipe for some fairly low seeding for both teams. Even if the Pirates join the Tigers in the D3 tourney field, neither will be seeded high enough to merit hosting a secondary-round game or games.

Of course, seeds don't always matter where the West Coast teams are concerned, and, yes, that's a matter of geography. Geography does trump seeding -- the handbook even admits that -- but this year it's a moot point. While it's easy to grumble about the NCAA not being amenable to incur the extra expense of flying multiple midwestern teams to NWC or SCIAC venues, keep in mind that the D3 tournament is a money-loser for the NCAA. Like just about everything else the NCAA sponsors, our tournament is funded by the D1 tourney, which is the NCAA's big cash cow. As the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on February 23, 2007, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2007, 05:14:33 AM
. . ., keep in mind that the D3 tournament is a money-loser for the NCAA. Like just about everything else the NCAA sponsors, our tournament is funded by the D1 tourney, which is the NCAA's big cash cow. As the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.
And to that end, I have tickets to the first two rounds of the D-I tournament in order to help out D-III playoffs. :D And yes I know, most of the money comes from television.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 23, 2007, 01:50:44 PM
sager,
           Thanks for the info on what exactly goes into the process besides QOWI.    I think d3 needs to do something about trying to be like d1.  We should have more scandals and plant "mushrooms" in our players' cars.  I think the extra attention will get the ball rolling ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2007, 07:10:41 PM
Bucs77 - I saw your comment on the SCIAC site about Wecker & you're right, he's a great coach.  He's also the Co-Coach of the Pirates, not an Assistant.  Thought someone should update you on that -- it happened last year or the year before, I believe.

By the way, I agree with you that the NWC gets ripped on the strength of schedule thing.  Not sure what can change to improve things, but someone should figure it out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 23, 2007, 10:50:40 PM
Whitworth should be ranked 16th still correct?    Just wondering why when you go to the scoreboard for saturday  they are not in with the ranked teams above all of the others
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2007, 01:50:54 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2007, 05:14:33 AM
As much as I enjoy reading all the paranoid rumblings that emanate from the left-coasters every year around this time, it's not as simple as being a matter of "respect" or lack thereof. The five primary criteria listed in the D3 men's basketball championship handbook that are used for selection and seeding purposes do not include "respect" among them. Those criteria are:

* regional winning percentage
* regional Quality of Wins Index
* in-region record against ranked teams
* in-region record head-to-head
* in-region record against common opponents

According to those criteria, Oxy is currently fifth in the West Region and Whitworth is currently sixth. That's a recipe for some fairly low seeding for both teams. Even if the Pirates join the Tigers in the D3 tourney field, neither will be seeded high enough to merit hosting a secondary-round game or games.

Sager fails to mention that respect is the 1st of 10 secondary criteria. lol  ;D :D ;).  Obviously, I'm kidding.

Quote from: bucs77 on February 23, 2007, 10:50:40 PM
Whitworth should be ranked 16th still correct?    Just wondering why when you go to the scoreboard for saturday  they are not in with the ranked teams above all of the others

Yeah, it's not a perfect system.  Have no worries, though the NCAA doesn't care that Whitworth is 16th in the d3hoops.com poll!  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2007, 09:34:35 PM
Whitworth is in!  The Bucs beat LC 69-62.  Jon Young had a great game.  Perfect from the free throw line which was big at the end of the game as it turned a two possesion game into a three possesion game with about 40 seconds left.  He also came up big from beyond the arc when he needed to.  LC did a great job of crashing the boards on the offensive side which is really what kept them in the game in the first half.  That midseason stretch of not having Jones hurt Whitworth but the healthy Whitworth team is the best in the conference and will hopefully represent the NWC well in the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2007, 01:23:15 AM
My Pirates played some great D in the second half and held back a strong challenge from LC.  Great season for LC and they must be thinking next year looks very good, plus the hunger from losing tonight will be with them.

Young has been playing as good as he has ever played and just in time.  Williams continued my favorite stat of 0 fouls.  Symes opening dunk was huge.  Great job by the WW coaches to help turn up the D in the 2nd half and stifle LC shooters.  WW fans were pumped and that
FT % by LC goes straight to the 6th man!!  Great support Spokane.

As for the Tourney...5 criteria between Oxy and WW.  1,  head to head doesn't apply, in the next 4 WW leads in 3 of 4.  Come to Spokane Oxy!!  Its warm and sunny, I swear it is, really.

Actually, I think WW goes far no matter what.  They have poise and leadership.  Backcourt seniors = March wins.







Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 25, 2007, 01:56:28 AM
Again I agree with THAT!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 25, 2007, 03:01:29 AM
Great job Whitworth in winning the automatic bid.  LC really did give them a run for their money.  I don't care what team you were cheering for, if you love basketball, you had to appreciate that final shot by LC's Joey Toboni from the other side of the court for a 3!  Made a 10 pt lead only 7, but wow, I don't think I've ever seen a cooler shot!   If their 3 point shots had been working like that all night, we'd be talking about a different outcome.  It's a shame that one of these teams had to be eliminated because they're both quite good.

LC will be a tough team next year -- they were this year without a single senior on their team.   They were really fun to watch this year & a serious threat to many teams.  Congrats on a great season!

At the risk of lowering my Karma even further, I just have to say that I think the NWC is under rated by other parts of the country that don't get to see our games.   So, here's to negative karma, just because I think WW can beat Oxy or other teams from those glorious midwest states that have such great travel accessibility and amenities.

And, as a side note, I can't believe anyone views the Pacific NW as nowhere!  You must be nuts!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2007, 04:50:26 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 25, 2007, 03:01:29 AMAnd, as a side note, I can't believe anyone views the Pacific NW as nowhere!  You must be nuts!

It's not a matter of viewing the region itself as nowhere. It's more a matter of the Northwest Conference not having any D3 neighbors to the east until you cross the Minnesota-North Dakota border.

Don't let paranoia lead you to believe that geographical isolation equals disdain and dismissal in the minds of the rest of the country. It isn't true in terms of our society in general (everyone in the country is well aware of the prominence of Seattle and Portland within American culture), and it isn't true in terms of D3; everyone who has seen the NWC's tourney teams over the course of this decade has been impressed by them. I was impressed by those L&C teams earlier in the decade, and I know that the UWSP and Illinois Wesleyan fans were impressed by the UPS teams of the past few seasons.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2007, 01:59:28 PM
Thank you for the kind words about the NWC Sager.

The brackets are out.  Whitworth is playing at Washington U. against DePauw (this friday).  On saturday Whitworth (assuming they win friday) will play the winner of Washington U. and Fontbonne.  If all goes well for the first two rounds they will run into UW-Stevens point in the 3rd round (sweet 16)...yay.  Don't know much about DePauw other than they're from Indiana...guess its time to do a little research.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2007, 02:49:59 PM
I don't think it's paranoia, Sager.  I think there's plenty of evidence to support the idea that men's teams in the West, particularly the NWC don't get the respect they deserve.  (One exception is Linfield football.) The Women's committee picked George Fox as a 1st round site.  And UPS women hosted soccer this year.  Ask the teams from Abilene, TX if that's geographically in sync.  It just ain't about geography!!

There's a lot of whining on other boards about teams that didn't get into Pool C.  Does anyone have a good reason why Guilford (51) is in and Lewis & Clark (50) isn't?  If we're using the numbers & ranking argument, it seems that they should have gotten a Pool C bid, at least over Guilford.

Go BUCS!  You're looking really good!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 26, 2007, 02:52:54 PM
Congrats to the Bucs for making the tourney! I hope they make some noise for the NWC!

Looks like we were all waaaaaaaaaay off with our predictions, instead of playing the SCIAC/Occidental like normal WW will be shipped out to play Depauw.  I think that's a positive, it allows both teams from the west(coast) to match up against other teams from around the country instead of playing each other and automatically eliminating one west(coast) representative early on.  However, for what it is worth, WW appears to have a much easier path than Occidental.  Good luck to both teams.  

Anyone have thoughts on the All NWC teams?  I'm a little shocked with some of the picks!  5 guys from UPS made a team...not that I'm complaining...I think that's great, they are all deserving I'm just a little suprised.  Also three WW first teamers? I'm all for BWillimas as POY(best player on the #1 team should get it) but I don't know about Symes AND JJ on the first team?   I'm glad to see Born's team record didn't hurt his individual status, he had a great year and deserves first team.  Obviously this is all debatable, just throwing some opinions out there.

I probably won't be posting too much anymore now that the Loggers are out of the equation, I'll be lurking though, I'm already looking forward to next year...and the UPS RE-takeover ;D!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2007, 03:04:56 PM
I agree with you UPSoundLogs about the All NWC team.  Seems like some really great players got left out.  I'm sure UPS & Whitworth are happy, but maybe at the expense of other guys who deserve to be there.  The All Conference team should be about individual stats, not how the team did.  Every year someone gets left out.

Really happy about B Williams as POY -- he's a true team player.  He recently received an award for 1000 points & 500 assists!  Wow!

And, if Hayford is Coach of the Year, does that include Wecker?  They're co-coaches!  I don't think Whitworth would be where they are without both of them!  Congrats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2007, 05:58:21 PM
QuoteThe All Conference team should be about individual stats, not how the team did.

The problem here is that it is your opinion, and every coach/SID/anyone who votes for all-conference, all-region, all-etc. has a different view on what qualifies someone as a first or second teamer.  Many people like bbaddict will say go purely off of stats, of course that would make born the POY, while others will argue that you have to look at where the top teams would be without certain players (I think thats how Symes and JJ got to be first teamers.  Look at WW w/ and w/0 JJ.  They never lost a game when he was healthy and dropped two to UPS and one to LC while he was out or just coming off of an injury.  Some voters will say that he is the second best player on the best team and that means he ought to be a first teamer (and he was obviously a very valuable peice to the best team in the conference).  Symes led Whitworth in scoring with 376 points...he scored the most points on the best team in the conference, some would argue that that qualifies as a first teamer.  I guess what I'm getting at is that we could pull out all of the statistics, logic, and reasoning and still not have a clear-cut 6 top players in the league (counting POY).  I personally would have kept Symes on the team and dropped JJ because he did get injured and had to sit out a few games...the only problem is I don't know who I'd replace him with.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 26, 2007, 06:31:12 PM
Overall, I think that the All NWC squads came out suprisingly well.  There was a lot of fairly even talent in the league this year and I believe there are several players that could actually  be interchangable on these teams.  When the talent is pretty close it comes down to team record, which obviously(with the exception of Born) ruled in this years picks.  I think the main thing is that the POY should always be the best player from the best team in league...something that has not been done correctly for the last several years.  Example: Pecht from 2nd place WW over Curtiss(all american) from the NWC champ and elite eight team...big time mistake... and Curtiss showed why in the NWC tourney championship with 28pts/14rbs/8assts(I don't mean to live in the past, just to prove a point).   

As for this year, COY should really have been the LC coach.  I think COY should be about a coach that is able to overacheive with the talent that he has and bring a team that was supposed to be bad/mediocre into the elite...just like LC.  Not taking anything away from WW, but they were expected to do well and had superior talent. 

In regards to the players this year, I don' think there are any major dissapointments...I think Faidley could have been higher(team record hurt him), Symes lower(first place team though), Krauel higher(already a lot of UPS representatives=no more room), and Bergerren lower(good team record helped).  Not a whole lot to complain about though in my opinion. 

Also, I don't agree with bbaddict that All conference picks should be all about stats.  Unless someone has overpowering statistics(Born) I think team success should weigh heavily.   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2007, 06:45:43 PM
QuoteAlso, I don't agree with bbaddict that All conference picks should be all about stats.  Unless someone has overpowering statistics(Born) I think team success should weigh heavily

Case-in-point about what I said in my last post.

QuoteAs for this year, COY should really have been the LC coach.  I think COY should be about a coach that is able to overacheive with the talent that he has and bring a team that was supposed to be bad/mediocre into the elite...just like LC.  Not taking anything away from WW, but they were expected to do well and had superior talent.

I agree with this.  The only reason I would now say Hayford was the right choice is that he is taking his team to the national tourney after outcoaching the LC coach last saturday...hindsight is always 20/20.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 26, 2007, 07:51:04 PM
If you watched the game Saturday, I don't think you can say Hayford out coached Gaillard.  9-22 from the freethrow line might be considered out coaching since if Hayford put the players on the line on purpose.  The game wasn't played particularly too well from either side.  it looked like LC got the shots they wanted, and got to the line when needed.  When you get 15 offensive rebounds leading to freethrows, you gotta be happy.  You can't make the freethrows for the players, though.

WW made plays when they needed them.  But, it wasn't a superior coaching job that got them there.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 26, 2007, 08:05:05 PM
(509)rat, I have to agree with bigfella, LC got what they wanted out of their offense, they just couldn't make a shot or a free throw.   Not to take anything away from Hayford.  He did a great job this year and it looks like they got a great draw in St Louis, but Gaillard did a lot more with a lot less, I think.  Good Luck Bucs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 12:11:24 AM
LC shot just over 40% from the free throw line...which is bad...but they only shot 60% as a team on the season.  My point is that they are a bad free-throw shooting team to begin with so I don't think the fact that they shot poorly from the free throw line has anything to do with the outcome of this game.  In fact, if they shoot what they've shot all year they still lose the game by 3 points despite the miraculous shot by taboni at the end of the game.  In my opinion LC did not get the shots they wanted.  Everything was contested...Tillery's slashing to the basket followed by a kick out for a wide open three was not open once.  In fact, when tillery drove to the basket Whitworth did a great job of helping the guard and rotating down to cover up the low post guy that Tillery was looking for.  Everything LC shot was contested.  Did you notice the matchup problems Whitworth was having with Rivera when the starter Hasenfus was gaurding him???  That's exactly what LC wanted too...its just too bad that Whitworth subbed in Willamsen and Jurich to slow him down.  I don't think that LC's shooting woes (other than the free throws) had nearly as much to do with just poor shooting (berggren, robinowitz, and toboni were hitting everything they threw up during warmups and at the end of halftime) as it did with the fact every three-pointer LC took had a Whitworth hand/body, thrown up in its path.  The only ones that went uncontested were Tillery's but he didn't even want to take them.  Anyways, I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to Whitworth's coaches, weck included.  Like I said, even with the free throws, LC would not have won this game...Whitworth was much more efficient, and since they've lead the league and ben tops in the nation in offensive efficiency I'm starting to think this isn't just a coincidence.  Rather it is the system Hayford has in place.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 27, 2007, 12:21:43 AM
Just a side note for you Pirate fans.  I am sure the phone for the Asst Coach at CLU was ringing off the hook today as he is a Depauw alumnus.  I dont think you guys are too worried with big wins over CLU the past few years.  But I am sure Depauw is getting some detailed info.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 01:11:15 AM
Congrats to WW on their win.  It is was a well deserved win Saturday.  And, it is good that WW has great fans with a greater bias.  The points on LC's freethrow and FG shooting are moot, for it matters not if a player hits every shot in warm-ups or no shots in warm-ups.  The game still has to be played.  Anyone that has played will attest to that.  The LC team looked like a team that played Wednesday against a good team.  Hayford is a great coach and he deserves COY honors.  My point was not to say that Hayford didn't do a good job, as he did a great job.  But, he did not out coach anyone.  There weren't any great coaching moves to stop anyone.  hapenfuss got subbed out because LC put quick fouls on him, not because Hayford saw a great missmatch out there.  There weren't any new tweaks that were put in for this game.  WW played that same defenses and had the same match-ups.  The kids decided that game.  The seniors showed that they were seniors.  And, I loved watching it.   

We can break the game down in pieces, but it doesn't matter.  The better team won on that night.  Let's hope they represent our league well, which I know they will. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2007, 01:38:01 AM
You're right big fella.  It was a close game, that ultimately was won by the seniors.  Whitworth played better defense than I've seen them play and LC didn't connect as well as usual.  Seemed like they tried too many 3's when they should've set up more shots (7-34 for 3 pointers).  It really seemed like anyone's BB game until the last 2 minutes.  In fact, the WW crowd was pretty quiet at times -- the smaller LC crowd was pretty noisy in the fieldhouse! 

I'm just sorry that LC didn't get an At Large bid because they're really good & their season shouldn't be over.  Sounds to me like UPSoundlogs was implying that the LC team was bad/mediocre and only got where they were with good coaching.  There's a lot of talent on that team and if anyone should know that, the UPS fans should, because they beat you twice this season.  Using Soundlogs' logic, Hayford's the better coach, because his team (who didn't beat UPS at all) won out.

And just to set the record straight -- I never said that All Conference spots should be "ALL" about individual stats, just that sometimes players get overlooked because they aren't on the top teams.  I think that's unfortunate, but it's probably always going to be that way.

As for Whitworth getting an easier path than Oxy -- what about UW-Stevens Point?  Again, UPS should know all about that team!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 05:02:39 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2007, 02:49:59 PM
I don't think it's paranoia, Sager.  I think there's plenty of evidence to support the idea that men's teams in the West, particularly the NWC don't get the respect they deserve.  (One exception is Linfield football.) The Women's committee picked George Fox as a 1st round site.  And UPS women hosted soccer this year.  Ask the teams from Abilene, TX if that's geographically in sync.  It just ain't about geography!!

Unfortunately, bbaddict, it's mostly about geography. It evens says as much in the D3 men's basketball handbook. On page 17 it specifically states, "geographical proximity may take precedence over seeding." So, yes, once you know that the D3 tournament is all about saving travel money first and foremost, it is paranoia to blame the lack of NWC hosting opportunities upon a lack of respect.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 27, 2007, 12:03:33 PM
Ok,Ok,Ok...looks like we have some word bending from bbaddict here that needs clearing up >:(. 

"Sounds to me like UPSoundlogs was implying that the LC team was bad/mediocre and only got where they were with good coaching.  There's a lot of talent on that team and if anyone should know that, the UPS fans should, because they beat you twice this season.  Using Soundlogs' logic, Hayford's the better coach, because his team (who didn't beat UPS at all) won out. "  - bbaddict

Whoa...I think you've confused yourself.  Rather than argue this point into the ground, I will simply state, rather than "imply," what I truly think. 

I think LC is a very good team this year, as I have said many times throughout the season.  They had a great year and deserve recognition.  However, In the pre-season coaches poll they were picked 4th...to me that equals mediocre!  Their record from last year was 11-14...to me that equals bad.  HENCE my bad/mediocre comment.  So...for this year I strongly feel that LC's coach did a more impressive coaching job than WW's because he took a "supposed" bad/mediocre team and brought them to an elite level .  WW has a great team and coach, but in my opinion COTY goes to LC.   

Also you said...

"The All Conference team should be about individual stats, not how the team did." -bbaddict

If you post a statement like this, it would seem that you think individual stats take the cake when considering all conference.  As I am not able to read your mind, I can't tell that you didn't really mean what you posted...for this reason I said earlier that I desagree with you.  But since you set the record straight...

"And just to set the record straight -- I never said that All Conference spots should be "ALL" about individual stats" - bbaddict (to me that is exactly the opposite of your previous post)???

...then I guess we are in agreement :D. 

GO WW(NWC)!!!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 01:03:04 PM
The criteria for all-conference teams have baffled me for years.  It should be stats and importance to team, but some coaches pick players who they like.  And, they pass up on players who they don't like.  Everyone can have an argument, but in truth, the players know who put in work and who didn't.

One last point on WW, though.  They can play against fast teams and slow teams because of their size and strength plus athleticism.  They are made for the Tourny.  They are going to give whoever they play fits because of the way they play on offense.  They are well coached as evident by the COY honor(just kidding, please no more two page posts)..... This team can make a good run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2007, 02:08:34 PM
Bigfella, it was a fun game to watch last Saturday.  Even as a Pirate fan, I felt bad for L&C on all the missed free throws.  I could see the frustration on the staff's faces as they misses continued to mount...

But you guys have built yourself a potential powerhouse.  With the changes that have come in the administration at L&C, I think we'll see a return to the days of L&C being a continual favorite in the league (I remember your days as a dominator of the NWC Bigfella!)

And I agree with your analysis of the Bucs.  They will present match up problems for whoever they play.  If they can keep up the defensive intensity, and execute their offense - they've got a real shot to win some games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 03:06:32 PM
LC took 34 3-pointers, and I agree with addict that this appeared to be more than they wanted to.  Plus they only average around 27 3 pointers per game, which is a lot but no where near 34...bad coaching.  The LC coached looked very frustrated throughout the game and both he and the assistant yelled at players for not following their instructions after a timeout.  If you cant get your players to stick to your gameplan...bad coaching.

Whitworth played a man defense against LC for the first time this season...They wouldn't do it against UPS and it hurt them, just as that 1-2-2 or 3-2 (whatever you want to call it) zone they ran down at LC hurt them.  I would constitute switching your defense up from the last game with an opponent, and putting in a few wrinkles to defend the one thing you think they can hurt you with when you do go man (Tillery's quickness and their ability to get open looks around the perimeter), plus having a different outcome in the game against said opponent is a good coaching move.  Not one 3 pointer (other than Tillery's which they gave him) went uncontested...has Whitworth been able to do that against UPS or LC this season???  No, they haven't...and don't play this one off as the players playing well, you can only do so much if your coach hasn't developed a scheme to make that happen.

I do however, agree with bigfella that Whitworth is great looking tourney team.  Hasenfus can bang around with big men, and willemsen and Jurich can guard teams with  out a ture post player.  They can score from anywhere on the court and they play smart basketball for the most part.  They are a fundamentally sound team (thanks to their coach), and they have already proven they can travel halfway accross the country and beat a good team on their home court.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2007, 03:14:41 PM
SCIACguru -

"Just a side note for you Pirate fans.  I am sure the phone for the Asst Coach at CLU was ringing off the hook today as he is a Depauw alumnus.  I dont think you guys are too worried with big wins over CLU the past few years.  But I am sure Depauw is getting some detailed info."

The basketball coaching fraternity is so inbred, every staff has somebody they can contact for information on virtually any team anywhere.  The Whitworth staff has close contacts with Trinity - which is in the same league as DePauw, so I am sure Hayford is getting a good scouting report on DePauw as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2007, 03:18:51 PM
509 -

I think your assessment is oversimplified.  There was no "Bad Coaching" in Saturday's game.  In fact, as a guys whose seen almost 20 years of basketball in this league, I can say without question that Gaillard is one of the best in the history of the conference.

Also, Whitworth did run some man to man defense in the loss at L&C.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on February 27, 2007, 03:57:13 PM
Originally posted on the SCIAC board, thought you all might appreciate this info in case you're not visiting SoCal too much:  ;)

It looks like Amir Mazarei (Redlands), Sam Betty (Oxy) and Brian Williams (Whitworth) are in the hunt for an invitation to the 2007 College Basketball Invitational for top seniors from NCAA Div. II, III and the NAIA to be held in April.

Here's the web link for more information:

http://www.mccarthysports.com/player_list.html

Congrats and good luck to these fine DIII left coasters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 04:53:08 PM
QuoteAlso, Whitworth did run some man to man defense in the loss at L&C.

I don't remember any man to man in that game, but I believe you that they did...the key word in your post though is "some".  It didn't work in the last game and Hayford made adjustments.  I also don't think LC was ready for a Whitworth team with a healthy JJ.  They also didn't do nearly as good of a job getting someone in Jon Youngs face.  I believe that Gaillard is a good coach and one of the top in the conference, but after saturday's game I felt like Hayford did a better job.  LC could have won that game if they would have done a few things differently and those things can be attributed to coaching.

Anyways, thanks a lot Tooth for the info on those guys, and best of luck to Occidental in the tourney...represent the west coast well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 05:26:50 PM
Whitworth ran a man defense in every game LC played this year.  And, it wasn't some, but most in the games at LC and Saturday.  The zone was ridiculous and I agree that a coach should abandon a defense that didn't work.  If a team takes 27 threes per game, it is actually easy for them to shoot 34.  Especially if you are down at the end, hence trying to catch up.  The thing I love about coaching is the different styles.  Everyone has different ways to approaching the game and how they teach it.  If Gaillard did such a bad job of coaching, then it should have been a 20 point game then.  Hey, you were at home waiting and didn't play on Wednesday.  Don't get it twisted.  If you have the player of the year, three first teamers, and the coach of the year, it shouldn't have been a game.  In fact, how did WW lose a game this year?  I feel sorry for the players since they get no credit for winning the game.  If you have played in a game like that, I think you woould see it otherwise.  It was a good game with two contrasting styles of play.  Fun to watch and good for our conference.  The way you(rat) look at it is you opinion, but I hope you are not a coach.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 05:40:41 PM
And, Jon Young hit big shots.  The those guys were draped on him.  But, we can't give him credit for showing up big. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 08:30:36 PM
Appearently bigfella didn't watch or listen to any of the UPS v. WW or LC v. WW.  Then he would have known that Whitworth stayed in that zone they play pretty much the entire game against UPS (both times) and although less often, most of the second LC game.  That's Hayford's system though...make them beat you with the three ball, and play very effieciently on offense (only take high percentage shots and open threes).  The problem is, is that those teams beat them with the three.  Hayford adjusted based on what LC did in the past.  The pirates tightened up their defense and defended all the out to a few feet past the three point line.  At times it seemed almost like a matchup zone when there was dribble penetration by a guard and the Whitworth players rotated beautiffuly to defend to kick out pass.  What did LC do differently when their MO wasn't working?  What adjustments did they make to counteract Whitworth's?  I didn't really see any, especially in the last 4-5 minutes when they really needed to.  Jon Young did have a good game...he did exactly what they needed him to, hit a few threes and make all of his free-throws.  Whitworth played well, but just like in football, more often than not its the coach who is calling the plays.  bigfella also forgets that a certain first team player was sitting out for the pirates for two of those three losses, and was fresh off of a broken hand for the last one.  And I have played in games where the conference championship is concerned here at Whitworth and I give credit where credit is due...and most of the time it goes first and foremost to your coach for putting you in a position to outperform the other team and win the game.  But being an LC fan (and judging by your articulate posts a fairly young one), I guess you aren't used to that are you?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 28, 2007, 10:19:15 AM
Rat,

FYI...I might be wrong...but if the bigfella is who I think he is, he's been on the good end of a lot of wins. 

You are correct though, atleast when WW played UPS the time that I watched, they were in that lame matchup zone most of the game.  It's effective but boring as hell!!!  But hey, I'm used to watching madness so what do I know ;)?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2007, 11:37:13 AM
I saw this posted in the SCAC room.  I thought you might like to see it, to see that there is respect for the NWC out there:

Quote from: DPU3619 on February 28, 2007, 12:48:21 AM
Well, when this DePauw team plays at their best, there aren't many folks that beat 'em.  If Schott & McDonald can get rolling, Moore, Sakel, and Werentz can hit a few 3's, and they don't turn it over, they're going to have an awfully good shot at Whitworth.  I gather the NWC is a pretty good conference, and to get out of it on top is a darned good day at the office.

Good luck to Whitworth in St. Louis.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 28, 2007, 03:25:36 PM
Only was speaking of when LC played WW.  I can't speak on UPS games against WW.  Those were good games, though, I bet.  but, WW played majority of man in the last two games against LC.  I wasn't in the huddle for either team, so I can't say what either team did (WW and LC) for adjustments.  From watching, though, it looked like both teams worked at making the correct changes to try to win the game.  It was a great game.

"And I have played in games where the conference championship is concerned here at Whitworth and I give credit where credit is due...and most of the time it goes first and foremost to your coach for putting you in a position to outperform the other team and win the game."

I have never played for or spoken to a coach who would take credit for a game like Saturday's, where the players made big plays.  But, it is only opinion.  I am not trying to say you are wrong, it is only contrasting thoughts.  The coach puts you in the position, but the players make plays(again just my opinion).  Hayford didn't coach Williams to put his head down and get the and-ones that he did.  The player made that play.  That is why he was MVP.  You can't script those plays.  Jon Young pulling up from 26 wasn't scripted.  Just a kid making plays in a big game.  Give the kids credit fella.  And, no need to get personal.  If I wrote something that was viewed as personal, I apologize.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on February 28, 2007, 05:11:45 PM

Coach Bigfella,

Interesting reading your posts. Thanks for your perspective, and nice job with the Pios this year. Must be nice to have the administration backing the sports at L&C again. They finally realized that  Athletics are a big part of College Life.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2007, 06:49:00 PM
If coach's don't play an important role in winning basketball games then Bob Knight wouldn't have as many wins as he does He hasn't had the type of talent throughout is career as Krzyzewski or dean smith had at UNC, yet he's won more games than both.  WSU would not be vying for a conference championship if it weren't for Tony Bennett.  Whitworth's players outperformed LC on saturday, but I still claim that Hayford put his players in a better position to win than LC's coach.  And if you've done that, in my opinion you've outcaoched the guy on the other bench.

And OxyBob, those quotes are from baseball managers...managers, not coaches.  I don't think anyone will argue with you that they do nothing but manage their team.  They don't actually do a whole lot of coaching, if they ever do any at all.  If those quotes were intended for humor like your sound waves, then sorry, that one flew right over my head.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 28, 2007, 07:45:38 PM
Rat -

I think the part of this Coach of the Year discussion that is making me uncomfortable and bringing bigfella back is how you were putting down another coach to make the case for Hayford.  I don't think that was necessary.

Now, you could argue that a coach who brings his team through the gauntlet of being a favorite and still wins, deserves the award.  You could argue that doing that is harder than coaching a team that not much is expected of, because everyone is out to knock you off from the start.

You can't really argue that a coach deserves the award or not based on one game, especially when the game in question occured after the award was announced.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 28, 2007, 08:09:09 PM
Hey ratboy, let it rest.  You have probably aggravated enough people for now.

By the way, John Wooden always said the best coach is the coach with the best players.   But what does he know?

Who can tell me which teams in the last 15 years in the conference have the most NAIA and NCAA national tourney appearances?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2007, 09:36:08 PM
For the most tourney appearances in the last 15 years, I'm going to guess:  Lewis & Clark, Willamette & Whitworth?

Am I close?   I think UPS & Linfield have a few in there, too, but not as many as the big 3.  I could be wrong -- have been before! : ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 02:24:36 AM
Ok, I'm done with the coach thing.

DePauw runs Dean Smith's "secondary break" (Roy Williams ran it at Kansas and now at UNC) that is becoming more and more popular in college hoops.  Want to know how it works.  Look no further than the current SI article about how UNC is using it to their advantage.  If you have the magazine they actually diagram the thing.  From what I understand all it is, is a set play that they run when they don't have numbers on a fast break.  Or they don't have a true fast break so they use this as a quick hitter.  The only thing is that their big guy has to run in transition to catch up, no jogging down the court to set something else up.  But then again, thats just what I gathered out of it...I'm sure someone can explain it better than myself.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/grant_wahl/02/19/carolina0226/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/grant_wahl/02/19/carolina0226/index.html)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 01, 2007, 11:53:37 AM
Tuxguy -

No coaching in me.  just lots of playing.  LC looks like it is going in the right direction, but time will tell.  The league as a whole looks good.  Fresh new blood in the coaching ranks and solid line-ups.  I was scared, though, because the SCIAC is starting to creep up on the NWC.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: DPU3619 on March 01, 2007, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 02:24:36 AM
DePauw runs Dean Smith's "secondary break" (Roy Williams ran it at Kansas and now at UNC) that is becoming more and more popular in college hoops. 

First, I'm no coach (intramurals aside.. 1-3-1 trapping zone ALL the time), but here's what I think this system gives you.

1) Fast break opportunities (duh).  It's likely that your opponent won't get all five guys back defensively 100% of the time.  You mentioned that the bigs have to get out and run.  That's true and DePauw does it really well.  The 3 bigs in the regular rotation are all very well conditioned and run the floor with ease.  These opporunities grow when the opposition has bigs who aren't in that good of shape and can't get up and down the floor with Schott, McDonald, and Oilar. 

2) Mismatches.  Off of missed buckets and free throws by the opposition, the first two or three seconds of a possession are a bit chaotic as the defense tries to get into their set.  I think it's a little bit similar to getting an offensive rebound.  The defense is trying to get reset, and it leads to a few open threes or a situation of a guard trying to defend a post player.

You need great point guards who can push the ball for the system to be effective.  DePauw's got two of 'em.  Unsure of whether or not back up PG Tony James will play or not.  He's been bothered by a hamstring most of the season which he re-injured on Saturday.

DePauw is certainly going to get out and run.  The question is whether or not they can make shots.  DePauw hits on all cylinders when they make 3's.  When they dont, well, they don't.  They hovered around 50% from the floor and 40% from 3 for a good portion of the season.  Those numbers are 47.5 and 38.5 currently.

They shot 26% from the floor and 9% (!) from 3 in a 30 point blowout loss at conference champ Centre.  Attempted 30 3's and shot only 23% from out there in a 7 point loss @ Sewanee.  30% from 3 and 63% from the stripe in an OT loss to Hamilton over Christmas.  Only made 33% from 3 at tourney bound Chicago on opening weekend.  The lone exception is Saturday's game against Trinity.  DePauw shot it very well, but TU attempted 21 more free throws and DePauw uncharacteristically turned it over 19 times.

So there you go.  Something for you kids to look for if you're making the trip to the StL.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 03:52:02 PM
It seems to me with a guy like Austin Brown, Whitworth will get back on D, pack it in with one of their semi-matchup zone defenses, and give DePauw the 3 ball.  You can expect Whitworth to shoot over 50% from the floor...they have pretty much all season.  If all of this is true then it sounds like its gonna come down to whether DePauw is hitting their shots from the perimeter.  Thatnks for the insight DPU, that was a great post coach or not...now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 01, 2007, 04:56:25 PM
We're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people. Could someone do one for Whitworth?

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2007, 04:50:40 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 03:52:02 PM
It seems to me with a guy like Austin Brown, Whitworth will get back on D, pack it in with one of their semi-matchup zone defenses, and give DePauw the 3 ball.  You can expect Whitworth to shoot over 50% from the floor...they have pretty much all season.  If all of this is true then it sounds like its gonna come down to whether DePauw is hitting their shots from the perimeter.  Thatnks for the insight DPU, that was a great post coach or not...now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)

You read about that, too, eh? I've been wondering when someone was going to drop the sorority purge scandal into the middle of a DePauw discussion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: DPU3619 on March 02, 2007, 11:11:31 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2007, 04:50:40 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 03:52:02 PM
now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)

You read about that, too, eh? I've been wondering when someone was going to drop the sorority purge scandal into the middle of a DePauw discussion.

Yeah.. thanks for bringing that one up, team.  Problem is that we've been hearing about it since December.  You've been hearing about it for about 3 days now. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 12:46:50 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 01, 2007, 04:56:25 PM
We're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people. Could someone do one for Whitworth?

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0

Guys please? We have around 2/3 of the schools posting previews, and it just won't be the same without all the fellow left coasters present. Represent! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2007, 03:12:46 PM
If no one else steps up, I'll try.  Could you email me what you want included?  Never done this before.
Or if there's someone better to do it, please do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
Thank you! Just a little about the key players, the style they play, their key wins (Wheaton obviously! LOL! ;) ) and losses... if you go over to that board there are tons of examples of really different ones. If, in the future, I every have the time and resources to get a more formalized format going, we can do one, now it's just a chance to let people around the nation know a little about this Whitworth team they see in their DIII brackets. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2007, 04:14:55 PM
OK -- it's posted.  What I did was copy one that was already on there & for the scouting report, I robbed the Whitworth site.   (Credited them, of course.)  Didn't want anyone jumping on me for making my own observations!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 05:06:12 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2007, 04:14:55 PM
Didn't want anyone jumping on me for making my own observations!
Hey... there's plenty of "my own observations" on there... my fav is the poster who called John Carroll lazy! :D The observations are what make the previews interesting. If you want to add another paragraph in addition to the stuff on the official site, let me know and I'll be happy to do it. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2007, 08:49:30 PM
Pirates win, 62-59 with a last minute 3 pointer by POY, Bryan Williams!  Pretty low score for an OT game, but it sounds like the teams were pretty well matched.  Great team effort by the Pirates.   3 points or 20 points, a win's a win!  Yay BUCS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 02, 2007, 09:55:21 PM
Yes bbadict, a win is a win, survive and advance, on to the round of 32.

Good to see our POY make a POY type of play.  Good luck tomorrow Pirates, represent!

Oxy is getting hammerred right now down in Mississippi, their POY is hurt and not playing, looks like the NWC is left to carry the West Coast Flag.  Let's get it done!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 04, 2007, 04:21:06 PM
WW represented the NWC to the fullest.  Great job on a great season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 04:22:33 AM
Quote from: DPU3619 on March 02, 2007, 11:11:31 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2007, 04:50:40 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 03:52:02 PM
now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)

You read about that, too, eh? I've been wondering when someone was going to drop the sorority purge scandal into the middle of a DePauw discussion.

Yeah.. thanks for bringing that one up, team.  Problem is that we've been hearing about it since December.  You've been hearing about it for about 3 days now. 

The funny thing is that unpleasant and/or ridiculous stuff like this happens on just about every college campus in America. But when the story hits the wires and goes national (however long after the incident in question took place), it makes it appear that the school in question is in some sort of Bizarro World, when we all really know that Bizarro World = Any College or University in the U.S.A.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 05, 2007, 02:11:19 PM
Just to be fair to DePauw, from what I understand the University had nothing to do with it and is actually looking to fix it by taking actions against the sorority's national office.  Some lady who is one of the big wigs, a pres., vp, or something of the sort, for all of these particular sorority's throughout the nation was the one who came in and did the image/ethnic cleansing.  I was just trying to get under the DePauw posters skin, and Sager is right that this stuff happens everywhere.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 05, 2007, 02:17:00 PM
Congratulations to the Pirates.  They flew half way accross the country, beat a good DePauw team and then gave a very good UWStL all they could handle on their home court.  From what I've heard from the players they didn't beat themselves or "lose" the game by playing poorly...but rather UW just beat them.  No shame in that...in my opinion.  While we all wish they could have gotten that sweet 16 game at UW-Stevens point, I'm proud of the Pirates and think they represented the NWC well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 05, 2007, 02:34:20 PM
Just wanted to say great job to Whitworth!  It looks like they played very well and lost a tough/close game to a very good Washington U. team.  WW represented the NWC nicely this year and continued to gain our conference some national respect. 

And FYI...Don't worry WW, you wouldn't have wanted to travel to Steven's Point anyways...nothing there but frozen arctic tundra and cheese ;) :D!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 11:13:25 AM
I was just checking out the WIAC message board and this quote from our NWC "COY" is in hot debate...

"[Whitworth head coach Jim] Hayford reserved even harsher words for the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC), the league in which Stevens Point competes. "Someone needs to tell the Wisconsin schools, 'look around the rest of Division III. Do you see anyone else like you? You probably ought to go in the division that you should be in," said the sixth-year head coach. "The Wisconsin league looks a lot like the rest of the Division II looks like."

...Real Classy!!!

I don't know about the rest of you guys/girls on the NWC board, and I'm not here to point fingers, but I'm not too impressed by this.  I'm not real sure what Hayford was trying to accomplish by saying this, but it seems like he should have been a little more focused on Washington U. and a little less focused on what division the WIAC should compete in.  As a representative for the NWC (Hayford in the national tourney) I think comments like this just make our whole conference look like a bunch of whiners.  I'm not gonna get too in depth about it, just wanted to see if anyone else had an opinion?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 06, 2007, 12:07:05 PM
I agree with the first part of your post... it was not an impressive moment.  I really wonder what he was trying to prove by making the statement?

I wonder why he thinks he's an expert on DIII athletics.  He went to an NAIA school for his undergrad, coached at that same school (Azusa Pacific), then coached at U of Sioux Falls (another NAIA school), and coached in some California High schools.

Does he not even realize that the WIAC, as a conference has been D-III longer than the NWC?  And certain members (Whitewater, Platteville) have been dual members for over 25 and 15 years, respectively?

It can't be the size that he's worried about... Wash U's own conference-mate NYU has 17,000 students.  It can't be because the WIAC is public.  There are plenty other public universities in D-III as well.  It can't even be because of the success... conferences like the CCIW have had lots of success on a yearly basis as well (it's called a winning tradition).

I don't think that this speaks negatively on the NWC as much as it does on him, individually.  I mean, there's a possibility that he was misquoted... but if this was the case, then he definately would want his name cleared... I'd expect the paper to run a retraction if it's the case...

It's easy to take pot shots and then run away and hide... I wonder if he'll bother to follow up on his statements on a forum like this?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 12:36:05 PM
PointSpecial,

Thank you for giving some insight from a WIACer point of view.  Again, I have no idea why Hayford would make such a statement.  Obviously the WIAC is a powerhouse conference that has been a roadblock and source of frustration for us here in the NWC, but in my opinion it is no different than the ACC,SEC,Pac10, etc. in D1.  It takes a special team from one of the smaller confences to beat a great team from a power conference.  That's just the way it is!!!  I actually think it is a good thing to have teams like Steven's Point and leagues like the WIAC and CCIW in D3 because it shows the kind of talent small schools(school first) are able to produce.  Plus, it makes success on a national level that much more impressive when a team from a lesser conference beats them. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2007, 01:09:23 PM
Should Hayford had said what he said when he said it?  No.  That was a dumb move.  And I agree with that part of UPSoundLogs post.  And it does make us sound like whineres,  But is what he said true, and probably a thought that many dIII coaches have?  Yes.  Think of it this way.  What is the biggest problem in recruiting a DII athlete in the NWC?

1.  Money...believe it or not, not everyone can afford $33,000 a year to go to college (the only reason I did was because of just enough scholarships and a sacrifice by taking student loans that could have been avoided at a state school.

2.  Ok, so the money's not an issue for you?  Well then you better have a 3.6 GPA in high school and at least a 1200 on your SATs (out of 1600, I don't know a comparable score on the new one).  Whitworth's incoming freshman class two years ago had an average GPA of 3.7 and an average SAT of 1230 out of 1600.  That was average and I can guarantee that all of the other NWC schools are the same.  Can any of the UW schools or Rowan say that?

3.  great you got in, you've got the money...but now there's at least 4-5 other schools t higher Divisions or competing NAIA that can offer you money and a chance to play...Wisconson doesn't have that.  From what I understand its Madison or DIII.

4.  The budget I'm sure is an issue since the UW schools don't have to rely on donations from alum to maintain facilities and equipment.  But I don't know much info on this topic so I'll leave it at that.

Look.  The WIAC schools have 7,000-9,000 undergrads and cost not much more than $10,000 a year.  Compare that to an enrollment of 2,200 and $33,000.  Now any small private school can be competitive in DIII, I think Mt Union has proved that...but all of the recruiting disadvantages in Division III sports really don't apply to the public schools participating in Division III athletics.  Whitworth has been very competitive on a national level in numerous sports for the last several years, but I can guarantee you that their coaches work very hard and can become very frustrated with the problems they have recruiting year in and year out.

*Note-I am not condoning anything Hayford said...like I said earlier I think it was a dumb move on his part.  All this post is trying to accomplish is to attempt to show you why any DIII coach would say or think something like this.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 01:44:51 PM
Rat,

I completely agree with what you said about money, test scores, gpa, competing schools, etc...and I realize that you also don't agree with what hayford said.  And I also don't want to beat this into the ground because its just one quote from an article...but for the sake of discussion on this quite board...

Take Gonzage for example, they have MANY,MANY,MANY disadvantages(money,tv time, famous alumni, location, and the list goes on and on) to a school like UNC, Duke, Texas, etc.  however, what do they do each and every year?  They play as many big time schools as they possibley can fit into their schedule.  They don't complain that UNC has too big of an advantage and they should become an NBA team(yes I know that's extreme).  They go to play them AT UNC because A) its a great atmosphere B) its a great challenge C)it brings them respect D) They believe that they can beat them!!!  In my opinion that is what college sports are all about. 
It doesn't necessarily take a team full of NBA prospects that has the most money to win. 

So back to D3...I think it is great that a team like UPS/WW/LC, from the NWC, can go take on a team like Wisconsin Stevens Point or Illinios Wesleyan.  Even though UPS is at a disadvantage and may not win, they can compete and have a great experience playing against the best of the best.  It would be much, much, much more boring if the WIAC and CCIW were D2 and we had to play against a bunch of Caltech's in the D3 national tourney. 

That's how I see it anyways. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 01:58:23 PM
First off, I want to echo what Point Special said about not drawing any sort of conclusion about the NWC from the Whitworth coach. As an ethnic minority and a female sports addict that also loves to bake and other random girly things, I am not too into stereotypes. :D ;)

Secondly, coaches say things out of frustration... I'm really not even willing to make a judgment on the actual person who made the quote either.

I do however, want to state that in a general sense, that such a lack of self control is something you would never want to see in a coach. These guys are entrusted with the sacred responsibility of teaching the game of life through the game of basketball. Teaching your athletes to let their adversities get the better of them (and subsequently act unfairly or unkindly) is hopefully not one of those lessons being taught in any program. I wouldn't wish that kind of coach on anyone... but especially not a DIII college team. Hopefully having discipline in your actions and self control with your words is a central message being taught every day in practice. Any DIII collage coach that doesn't care more about their character and the model it is for the character of their players more than the W-L column and their own convoluted sense of fairness clearly doesn't understand what DIII sports are all about and should probably sit down with the Cal Tech coach for some remedial lessons on how to coach DIII. :) That is why I hope, and heck, assume, that this kind of action isn't the norm for the Whitworth coach. Those kinds of words aren't befitting of a strong program and the high caliber student athletes found at Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 06, 2007, 02:38:32 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 01:44:51 PM
Rat,

I completely agree with what you said about money, test scores, gpa, competing schools, etc...and I realize that you also don't agree with what hayford said.  And I also don't want to beat this into the ground because its just one quote from an article...but for the sake of discussion on this quite board...

Take Gonzage for example, they have MANY,MANY,MANY disadvantages(money,tv time, famous alumni, location, and the list goes on and on) to a school like UNC, Duke, Texas, etc.  however, what do they do each and every year?  They play as many big time schools as they possibley can fit into their schedule.  They don't complain that UNC has too big of an advantage and they should become an NBA team(yes I know that's extreme).  They go to play them AT UNC because A) its a great atmosphere B) its a great challenge C)it brings them respect D) They believe that they can beat them!!!  In my opinion that is what college sports are all about. 
It doesn't necessarily take a team full of NBA prospects that has the most money to win. 

So back to D3...I think it is great that a team like UPS/WW/LC, from the NWC, can go take on a team like Wisconsin Stevens Point or Illinios Wesleyan.  Even though UPS is at a disadvantage and may not win, they can compete and have a great experience playing against the best of the best.  It would be much, much, much more boring if the WIAC and CCIW were D2 and we had to play against a bunch of Caltech's in the D3 national tourney. 

That's how I see it anyways. 

I've never really understood people's arguments that certain conferences/schools "don't belong."  While there may be advantages and disadvantages of going to a public or private school, when it gets right down to it, we're all going after the same goal.  We all need to work hard or get our butts kicked by the competition.  His comments really are an insult to the UWSP players who ARE DIII student-athletes.  The values of DIII are the same values held by the institutions in the WIAC in the same manner that they are in the NWC.  To frankly state that someone doesn't belong is getting far away from the spirit of DIII.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 02:55:35 PM
I need to completely reject the premises of the Whitworth coach's statements... sorry my fellow left coaster friends. :-\

I applaud the Wisconsin schools for going the DIII route... I wish all schools would be DIII. ;D

However, get this: the CCIW, my conference, went 6-1 against the WIAC this year. They are clearly not unbeatable. But maybe the makeup of the CCIW is really different than the NWC? Well, no, not at all. We are basically all highly selective colleges. If you look at the US News current college rankings for liberal arts colleges, you will find 3 NWC schools, and 3 CCIW schools in the top 100.

A cursory glace at the list of member institutions for NAIA and DII shows that there are 15 such institutions in all of Oregon and Washington. There are 4 in Wisconsin. However, there are 11 in Illinois alone. In terms of states that neighbor CCIW schools that are perennial contenders for the CCIW title? Right around the corner from the Chicago area schools is Indiana, which has 14 institutions in DII or NAIA. Iowa, which is right around the corner from Augustana (our two time consecutive CCIW regular season champ, who only lost to Stevens Point by three earlier this year) has 13.

Take Wheaton college, my college, as a case study... just cause it's the one I know best. The average SAT score is 1330, and the average GPA is 3.73. We have an enrollment of about 2300. We have 30+ national merit finalists in our incoming classes every year... and the athletes we recruit are frequently were valedictorians, etc. My brother, who played football at Wheaton, had a 1430 on his SATs (and only took them once without studying for them beforehand). These stories are not uncommon. One of the starters on our basketball team this year posted a 3.93 GPA at Wheaton which earned him an Academic AA nod.  Our tuition is 30,000. We are very selective and expensive, and are smack in the middle of a whole bunch of NAIA and DII schools within an hour or two, yet we have managed to earn votes in the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll over 80 times anyway... but we're a little unique in that we are basically the most selective Christian college in the country and we recruit nationally (although Westmont, a CA NAIA school, does frequently steal recruits not too interested in living in minus temperatures 7 months of the year). :D

Lets try IWU instead then, also in the CCIW, who made it to the Final Four last year after embarrassing the WIAC rep Whitewater that hosting their sectionals (85-71!). IWU is even more expensive than us, and they are ranked very similarly to us. They recruit locally, and succeed at doing so quite dramatically. It would take a long time to list the number of IWU AAs and post season wins, so we won't do it. Plus, who cares about them anyway. ::) :D ;) :-X 8) (Incidentally, random fact about IWU, they lost their coach to a DII school, and like 8 of their 9 top guys last year... and then proceeded to beat Whitewater at Whitewater again this year on opening weekend. Whitewater then finished 4th in the WIAC, IWU 7th in the CCIW (11-14 record over all!). Fun stuff.

I am the first to get annoyed when people in my conference wax poetic about just how darn awesome they are, so that's not my point. My point is simply this.... there really isn't much to whine about. Lets face it, there just isn't. The real lesson is:

1)   Sell the strengths of the program to recruits well.
2)   Coach well and instill a crazy awesome work ethic into your players.
3)   Build the capacity of your programs as necessary.

If you build it, the banners will come. Silencing the Goliaths on the court is a whole lot more classy and fun than whining that you aren't good enough off the court. (No offense intended to my Pointer friend, of course, but it's true.) :D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 06, 2007, 03:09:10 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 01:44:51 PM
So back to D3...I think it is great that a team like UPS/WW/LC, from the NWC, can go take on a team like Wisconsin Stevens Point or Illinios Wesleyan.  Even though UPS is at a disadvantage and may not win, they can compete and have a great experience playing against the best of the best.

That's how I see it anyways. 

Why would those NWC schools be at a "disadvantage" vs Illinois Wesleyan?  IWU is a very selective liberal arts school of 2000 students that costs about $35,000/year...sounds a lot like the NWC picture you are painting. 

You are making it sound like Puget Sound vs IWU is Gonzaga vs North Carolina.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 03:26:59 PM
OK OK OK...

This is exactly what I didn't want to happen.  I just wanted some opinions on one quote, that in my opinion was not the most appropriate thing for whitworths's coach to say.  I'm not trying to step on toes or pass judgement on which team has more of an advantage one way or the other. 

My Gonzage/UNC example was simply a far fetched situation that is similar to the topic at hand.  A school from a lesser conference(Gonzaga from the WCC) taking on a school from a dominant conference(UNC from the ACC).  In that sense it is a lot like UPS from the NWC(a lesser conference) taking on IWU from the CCIW(a power conference).  There is no need to take offense, I was only trying to give a like example without filling in all the details and taking ten days to write my post. 

The bottom line here is...

I think Hayford's statement was way off and I think its great to have teams like Steven's Point in D3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 03:26:59 PM
I'm not trying to step on toes or pass judgement on which team has more of an advantage one way or the other....
I don't feel like my toes were stepped on, I doubt anyone else does either. :)

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 03:26:59 PM
I think Hayford's statement was way off and I think its great to have teams like Steven's Point in D3.
Amen to that. As a fan of the game who got to watch their championship teams play 5-6 times.... it was like a thing of beauty. The way that they passed and played like a team was like poetry.

Incidentally, it took me ten and a half days two write my post. Lets not undercut my effort here. :D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 03:56:43 PM
DHF,

I knew you probably wouldn't take offense, you seem pretty easy going.  I was more referring to TitanQ, I didn't want him/her thinking I was taking a shot at IWU.  As you can probably tell by my karma, I haven't had the best luck making friendly conversation with Hall of Famers :-\.  I must have crazy view points or something because they always seem to find some reason to disagree with me...and my karma takes the brunt of it ;D...Oh well.

And for the record...I appreciate the 10 and a half days that you dedicated to posting!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 04:58:43 PM
LOL! Q is a guy! ??? :D If you ever listen to Hoopsville,  he's the Midwest/West reporter...  (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/crew.htm#Quillman)

Point Special and Titan Q are both easygoing, nice guys... both of whom I've talked to on numerous occasions at games. They both know their stuff, so you have to be prepared for them to correct you. However, I'm pretty sure you didn't upset them... I think it's just that being male and former college athletes, however, they don't feel quite comfortable with the cutsy smilies as I do, ;) so perhaps the tone of their posts weren't as clear. When I first started posting on the CCIW board, there were only two smilies... and I used them liberally and got a lot of flack for it. I do think it helps in terms of clarifying mood and tone though and wish more people did it.

Thanks for the compliment, incidentally. I think it's the SoCal sunshine getting to me... it's hard to be annoyed at the world when it's sunny and between 60-90 year round. Pretty soon my hair will be blond and I will be surfing and saying duuuude all the time. But seriously, how could I be offended by a guy who has an Office Space quote in his signature? That's one seriously funny movie. :)

On a completely unrelated note, you know how people in WA and OR despise the people who move up there from SoCal? Will the fact that I've lived here for the last year and a half since college (despite being a native of Virginia who has always wanted to live in the Pacific Northwest) hinder my social life if I ever finally get up there? ??? Just curious... :D :D :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 05:20:10 PM
DHF-

Being that I am a frequent visitor of SoCal and NorCal and the vast majority of my friends either currently live, are from, or went to school in California I would have to say that I'm completely at ease with...you people ;).  After all, I can't fault anybody(yourself included) for wanting to live in the year round sunshine of Southern California.  Personally, I happen to like the Bay Area much more...but I think in your case I could make an exception and say that you would be excepted in the Northwest without a problem.  There's a ton of you(californian's) already up here anyways, one more couldn't hurt...you gotta be a UPS fan though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2007, 06:42:48 PM
I'm not going to defend anything I said in my post but some of you need to read it a little more closely...especially the wheaton poster.  Anyways, did anyone actually see where that interview came from?  The Washington U. student paper.  This raises two questions...why would Hayford do an interview during a national tourney with a student at Washington U.?  And, does anyone actually have a link to the paper where the quote came from and who wrote the article?  This is starting to sound more and more like a load of Bull, but it doesn't matter now cuz it has been posted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 06:47:19 PM
Rat,

There's a link on the WIAC board.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2007, 09:31:07 PM
Thanks Logs...thats pretty unbelievable.  But life goes on, and next season will still happen so its kind of a dumb thing to dwell on.  Whitworth appaerently already has a few commits from some Juco players and is expecting to bring in about 8 new players.  Haven't heard anything about any of them but this season has to have helped the recruiting process a bit. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 12:17:35 AM
Just read the article and it just looks like a poor choice of words, but I don't think it should be taken as hard as people are.  Stevens Point and that conference is tough.  Watching how they did UPS at UPS, I would say they were a good DII.  They are good for DIII, but that talent would beat lots of DII's around here.  Let's be real.  Western Oregon, Northwest Nazarene, etc... 

Anyways, you put a mic infront of a coach who just lost an emotional game.  Give the guy a break.  COY's get that pass, right?????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2007, 01:49:03 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 04:58:43 PMOn a completely unrelated note, you know how people in WA and OR despise the people who move up there from SoCal? Will the fact that I've lived here for the last year and a half since college (despite being a native of Virginia who has always wanted to live in the Pacific Northwest) hinder my social life if I ever finally get up there? ??? Just curious... :D :D :D

Not all people from Oregon despise people from SoCal -- just the ones who migrated here so long ago (from CA) that they've forgotten where they came from.  Actually, you'll miss the sun & probably want to move back.  If you do move here, just tell everyone you're from Virginia & get your driver's license and car license changed right away.   You'll meet so many people from California, that you'll forget you live in Oregon!  Can't speak for WA.

Regarding Coach Hayford's remarks (if he made them).  He can be emotional & you have to cut him some slack, they lost that 2nd game by 2 points.  Of course he might've said some things he shouldn't have, but he's still a good coach & the team put forth a great effort!   The NWC should be proud of the Bucs and their coaches!

And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII?  I've thought that about Linfield football for years!  It's not like someone said they should play the JC bracket!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2007, 02:56:04 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 06, 2007, 06:42:48 PM
I'm not going to defend anything I said in my post but some of you need to read it a little more closely...especially the wheaton poster.  Anyways, did anyone actually see where that interview came from?  The Washington U. student paper.  This raises two questions...why would Hayford do an interview during a national tourney with a student at Washington U.?  And, does anyone actually have a link to the paper where the quote came from and who wrote the article?  This is starting to sound more and more like a load of Bull, but it doesn't matter now cuz it has been posted.

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

509, the link is all around. Check other boards. It was actually printed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 07, 2007, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2007, 01:49:03 AM
And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII?  I've thought that about Linfield football for years!  It's not like someone said they should play the JC bracket!

There's an extreme difference between "could compete with DII teams" and "should move to DII."  The first could definately be seen as a compliment; the Pointers and others in their conference are good enough to compete with schools that offer scholarships and the implication is that DII teams are better because of this fact.  The second has tinges of elitism or jealousy... it implies that the WIAC isn't wanted in DIII, and I think this all stems from the success of the WIAC as opposed to anything else.  If the WIAC wasn't competing on a high level in so many sports, though the realities of the schools would be the same (all being larger, public schools as opposed to private, etc, etc...)... and there wouldn't be people tramping down the path of this discussion over and over again.  The WIAC is NOT the only conference of public schools.  There are public schools in Pennsylvania in DIII.  There are entire conferences of CUNY (City University of New York) and SUNY (State University of New York) schools in DIII.  The NJAC is a conference of public schools in New Jersey.  But you don't hear people making these same comments about these schools and conferences that are made, all the time.

And the thing about it is... as has been noted by CCIW posters who have added their comments to this discussion... the WIAC is not infallible.  The CCIW alone in the 2006 calendar year went 6-1 against the WIAC.  Thought the WIAC got 3 bids last season in the NCAA tournament, no team got beyond the second round.  But individual WIAC schools aren't even the most dominant in the country across DIII athletics...!

If you look at the Director's Cup standings (found HERE (http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/d31221relstand)), there are some WIAC schools in the top 20... but not in the top 11.  There are two NESCAC teams in the top six.  There are two UAA teams in the top 9.  The Director's Cup is only one way to see how schools compete across all DIII sports... but there has never been a WIAC school at the top of the Director's Cup standings.  Williams College (MA) has won 10 of the last 11 Director's Cup standings.  They currently stand 6th... but they were 6th after the Fall sports last year and still won by over 100 points.  The top WIAC team?  UWSP, at 22nd in the country.  Now, Point was 5th in the country the previous two seasons, but simply stating that the WIAC *should* be DIII sounds like sour beans.

And stating that the WIAC has more in common with DII teams isn't the case either.  I gave plenty of examples of public schools, and there's another striking difference... the WIAC DOES NOT GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS.  The WIAC plays by the same rules as everyone else.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 01:14:19 PM
Pat -

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

And, in these post game conferences, you hear some of the most outlandish comments, too.  Basketball is emotional and you need time to calm down most times.  We have all seen it before.   

You guys are talking as if Hayford has ordered a code red on the WIAC.  I wonder how much offense the Steven's Point coach took offense.  Does anyone know?

Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 07, 2007, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 01:14:19 PM
Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.
Sigh.... I posted the details on the previous page! :P ;)

Wisconsion doesn't have a ton of DIIs or NAIA institutions, but the statement "you either go DI or DIII is certainly hyperbole.

See even more specifics here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_athletic_programs_by_U.S._State#Wisconsin)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2007, 01:44:49 PM
Quote from: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 01:14:19 PM
Pat -

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

And, in these post game conferences, you hear some of the most outlandish comments, too.  Basketball is emotional and you need time to calm down most times.  We have all seen it before.   

And note I'm not foolish enough to state with veracity that it was said, only that it was printed.

It's a good thing the NCAA mandates a 10-minute cooling-off period. Who knows what people might say if asked immediately after the game. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 07, 2007, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 07, 2007, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 01:14:19 PM
Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.
Sigh.... I posted the details on the previous page! :P ;)

Wisconsion doesn't have a ton of DIIs or NAIA institutions, but the statement "you either go DI or DIII is certainly hyperbole.

See even more specifics here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_athletic_programs_by_U.S._State#Wisconsin)

There ARE D-II schools in Minnesota and Michigan that occasionally lure Wisconsin athletes away from the WIAC schools... there are three Wisconsinites on Michigan Tech's roster, and three on Northern Michigan's roster, Winona State has 7 players from Wisconsin on their roster.  These are just a few examples... but when you look at the number of athletes in Wisconsin schools who graduate in a particular year, there are lots... and not a whole lot of places to go play.  Plus, lots of players do choose to stay closer to home as opposed to going far away... a prime example of this is Amanda Nechucta, who was from about 10 miles away from SP, and could have probably gone D-1 to play somewhere but stayed close to home and was an All-American basketball player and also an All-American in track as well.  Had she gone "big time," she probably would not have had the opportunity to do two sports.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 02:49:13 PM
So it could be safe to say that in Wisconsin, there are less schools to fight for the better, non-DI type players?  As stated, there are players who go away to school, but for Wisconsin talent, the DIIIs don't have to battle as much with DIIs that might be right there recruiting the same person?  Is it only the WIAC battling for the most part?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2007, 03:09:33 PM
The state has reciprocal tuition agreements with state schools in Illinois and Minnesota, IIRC. There's a lot of students who flow over the border.

Winona State, the defending D-II champ, has a bunch of Wisconsin kids playing key roles, for example. They're just across the river in Minnesota.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 07, 2007, 03:11:19 PM
Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 07, 2007, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 07, 2007, 03:11:19 PM
Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.

In fact, a Wisconsin resident can attend a Minnesota public university for LESS than a Minnesota resident can.  As you can imagine our Maroon and Gold neighbors are rather up-in-arms and eager to renegotiate over that one.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2007, 03:25:08 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2007, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 07, 2007, 03:11:19 PM
Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.

In fact, a Wisconsin resident can attend a Minnesota public university for LESS than a Minnesota resident can.  As you can imagine our Maroon and Gold neighbors are rather up-in-arms and eager to renegotiate over that one.

For real? :o

Is that one of those new-fangled illegal alien amnesty programs?

Golly-gee! :D :D :D ;D 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 07, 2007, 03:32:02 PM
Yes, it's true.  The price was paid was based on the tuition at your home state's flagship school (UW-Madison or UM-Twin Cities).  However, the Minnesota legislature raised their tuition at a much steeper rate than Wisconsin did.  So a Wisconsin resident can go to U of M and pay what he/she would pay at UW-Madison.

The Minnesota state legislature really hung the U of M out to dry on this one.  Now the U of M is trying to cancel the agreement early and renegotiate, but as you can imagine, Wisconsin isn't particularily interested.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2007, 01:54:47 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 07, 2007, 09:45:41 AMThere's an extreme difference between "could compete with DII teams" and "should move to DII."  The first could definately be seen as a compliment; the Pointers and others in their conference are good enough to compete with schools that offer scholarships and the implication is that DII teams are better because of this fact.  The second has tinges of elitism or jealousy

You're assuming intent here, PS, and that's unfair to Coach Hayford. Yes, it's true that someone could want to get the WIAC out of D3 because of either elitism or envy. But it's equally as true that someone could want to get the WIAC out of D3 because of a sincere conviction that the schools of the WIAC fit the typical institutional profile of D2 (more publics than privates, with the student bodies of the publics ranging from 5,000-12,000 undergraduates) much better than they fit the typical institutional profile of D3 (far more privates than publics, most student bodies in the 1,000-3,000 undergraduate range).

Quote from: PointSpecial on March 07, 2007, 09:45:41 AMAnd stating that the WIAC has more in common with DII teams isn't the case either.  I gave plenty of examples of public schools, and there's another striking difference... the WIAC DOES NOT GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS.  The WIAC plays by the same rules as everyone else.

That's the salient point, and the one that should be held uppermost in this debate. If a school is willing to eschew athletic scholarships and consents to live by the rules of D3, then there should be a place for that school in D3. However, the point remains that WIAC schools do match the typical institutional profile of D2 schools much more than they do the typical institutional profile of D3 schools. Much has been made of the striking similarity in institutional profiles between the schools of D2's Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (Winona State, Bemidji State, UM-Crookston, etc.) and the WIAC right across the river. Seven of the ten NSIC schools are publics, and here's their sizes in terms of undergrads:

Bemidji State5,000
UM-Crookston2,775
MSU-Moorhead7,638
Northern State2,200
Southwest Minnesota State7,003
Wayne State3,300
Winona State8,000

And here's the size of the WIAC schools:

UW-Eau Claire10,500
UW-LaCrosse  8,746
UW-Oshkosh11,242
UW-Platteville  5,600
UW-River Falls  5,800
UW-Stevens Point  8,775
UW-Stout  7,400
UW-Superior  2,900
UW-Whitewater10,632

Not only are the two groups similar, if anything the WIAC schools tend on average to be slightly larger than their D2 neighbors to the west.

Of course, school size isn't necessarily a determinant for anything in sports, because athletes tend to be recruited rather than drawn from among the general student population in D3. If school size determined athletic success, NYU (undergrad enrollment: 17,475) would be winning the Director's Cup every year, and Williams (undergrad enrollment: 1,936) would be just another anonymous D3 school in terms of sports. But school size is relevant when you're talking about typical institutional profiles within an NCAA division.

As PS said, being a public doesn't necessarily give a D3 school a leg up on anything, as is demonstrated by all of the publics in the eastern half of D3 that are not particularly distinguished in terms of athletics. While many of those eastern publics are much smaller than WIAC schools, there are at least two leagues whose schools are of comparable size (SUNYAC and LEC) and one whose schools tend to be considerably larger in terms of undergraduates (CUNYAC). None of those conferences has exactly covered itself in glory on the field of play in D3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 08, 2007, 10:21:36 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2007, 01:54:47 AM
While many of those eastern publics are much smaller than WIAC schools, there are at least two leagues whose schools are of comparable size (SUNYAC and LEC) and one whose schools tend to be considerably larger in terms of undergraduates (CUNYAC). None of those conferences has exactly covered itself in glory on the field of play in D3.

And this reason, in an of itself, is why there IS something more to the fact that the WIAC is annually (if not more frequently) singled out as the conference that "doesn't belong."  As was pointed out by Oxybob earlier, Coach Hayford didn't have similar comments when his team whitewashed UC Santa Cruz by 24 and 45 earlier this year.  In fact, the Banana Slugs were a team that was ADDED to the schedule in November!

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/ReedChange.htm

Note the quote there that "We need to play a game that will count toward our overall record."
That is something recognized by the WW coaching staff as well as by the NCAA, and there was no note that 'UCSC should really be DII, but we'll play them anyway.'

But, actually, my earlier comments:

Quote from: PointSpecial on March 07, 2007, 09:45:41 AMThere's an extreme difference between "could compete with DII teams" and "should move to DII."  The first could definately be seen as a compliment; the Pointers and others in their conference are good enough to compete with schools that offer scholarships and the implication is that DII teams are better because of this fact.  The second has tinges of elitism or jealousy

were more addressing bbaddict than Coach Hayford:

Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2007, 01:49:03 AM
And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII? 
(emphasis added)

I'm willing to give Coach Hayford a pass on this and my discussion has been more geared TOWARD the discussion than merely at him.

But it does make me wonder why it is JUST the WIAC that it singled out year after year after year...  There are other DIII schools who are in the same situation as the WIAC, with one marked difference... the other schools haven't had the success on the National level with the frequency of the WIAC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on March 08, 2007, 01:26:40 PM
willing to give him a pass?
   Please let my post be the last we hear of all of this.  Hayford simply meant that they would be a better fit in d2, which they would.  But who cares?  there is still a good amount of the post season to be played.   Lets talk about the season we have left before the "snore"..............."snore"  NBA post season has to come around
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 09, 2007, 02:02:19 PM
Quote from: bucs77 on March 08, 2007, 01:26:40 PM
Hayford simply meant that they would be a better fit in d2, which they would.

I'm willing to drop, but your statement is purely opinion.  Like I said before, there are other publics in DIII.  There are other schools with a large number of students.  But there aren't any conferences who have had the success  the WIAC has had, and this is why the entire subject gets brought up.  Every year.  The same arguments are made.

Moving on, though... which team is the favorite next season?  Does Witworth return a lot of players?  Will UPS get back to the success they've had recently, or will another school step up and be the front runner?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2007, 03:08:55 PM
For next year in the NWC?  Whitworth is losing a lot of horses -- unless Hayford recruits some JC transfers (which he usually does), they're going to be in a rebuilding mode.  Lewis & Clark, however, didn't have a single senior & they looked good this year (co-champs for NWC).  Also, Willamette, my favorite team, has a lot of returning talent and hopefully won't be  plagued with injury and ineligibility issues next year.  So, my bets are on LC & Willamette.  Whitworth, UPS & GFU usually are forces to contend with and don't underestimate the Pacific team.    Guess it's just a tough conference.  Even this year, no one knew how the top three was shaking out until the last week of games!  We knew who was in the top 3, just not the order!

That said, I'll just have to go back to "Go Bearcats!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 09, 2007, 04:29:28 PM
I agree with bbaddict, the conference will be tough again next year.  WW will need some serious recruiting/JC transfers to stay on top...I'm not saying its out of the question but it will be very tough for them.  LC will be really good again next year, as bbaddict said they are returning everyone.  I'm not so sure about Willamette though, they will need some guys to play a lot better next year. I thought Nugent was very impressive this year, but in generel I thought they were pretty weak all around(yes I realize they had lots of injuries and played without some of their best guys).  Pacific will be dangerous too. 

Obviously I'm biased but I really think UPS will be right back on top next year.  They had five all conference players this year and they don't graduate anybody.  For the 07-08 season they won't have to deal with a first year head coach, they will actually have some senior leadership, and they will have a legit post player(he was hurt all year) so that Foster and Krauel won't have to play inside all the time against bigger players.  I think It's gonna be the Loggers and the Pioneers battling for first place next year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2007, 05:48:55 PM
So, does that mean that UPS is going to make Lunt their "real" coach, not just interim?  Are they still looking for a replacement for Bridgeland or have they just not updated their website to reflect thta their head coach is Lunt?

As for Willamette's team.  They only had one returning starter this year (Ian Mansfield) after Josh Erickson got hurt again.  So, all those guys were newbies -- no wonder they didn't look that good.  But they have a good coach & I'm confident that they'll be back better than ever next year! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2007, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on March 09, 2007, 04:29:28 PMI'm not so sure about Willamette though, they will need some guys to play a lot better next year. I thought Nugent was very impressive this year, but in generel I thought they were pretty weak all around(yes I realize they had lots of injuries and played without some of their best guys).

Interesting that you think this UPSoundlogs since WU only lost to UPS by 3 in 3OT and got soundly beat by them in Salem 119-108.  I was at both games and neither team looked weak to me!  I guess we'll just see next year!  One thing is for sure & that is the NWC is getting stronger.  So, here's to two NWC men's teams in NCAA playoffs next year!
(The women usually manage it, so why not?)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 09, 2007, 06:21:10 PM
Bbaddict-

Good point, I guess Lunt isn't the official head coach yet so I shouldn't get ahead of myself.  However, from what I have heard it sounds like he will be sticking around.  He'd get my vote anyways, I thought he did a great job this year.  

As for WU, I also expect bigger things from them next year.  I like some of their players, especially Nugent(I think he has POY potential), and I think they will improve greatly from this year.  I just don't see them as being a serious contender for the championship next year, I think they will be more of a third/forth place team.  

Anyone else besides me and bbad have some predictions/insight for next year?  Bucs, bigfella, pinecone....Gil?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 09, 2007, 06:29:18 PM
"Interesting that you think this UPSoundlogs since WU only lost to UPS by 3 in 3OT and got soundly beat by them in Salem 119-108" - BBaddict

Ouch...I was suprised when you didn't mention that in your previous post, I thought maybe I snuck one by you.  And you are right that WU made UPS look pretty bad this year.  I went to the WU/UPS game in Tacoma and in my opinion neither team played very well that game.  Don't get me wrong it was very exciting...but very ugly.  I'm not sure what it is, Willamette just doesn't look as good to me as LC and UPS for next year...they don't look like a championship contender to me.  For all I know they will prove me wrong though, so we will just have to wait and see. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 10, 2007, 01:19:28 AM
You can never count Whitworth out of the equation.  They will always get good transfers.  The power to get players out there is for real. 

LC has to be counted in the mix, especially if no one is leaving and if Gaillard is out there hunting down players to help get them better.

UPS is sort of a question mark to me, though.  The talent was illmatic, and they will bring in more players, but the swagger wasn't there this year.  And, Bridge kind of put that swagger in those kids.  I wonder if that has been lost with Eric gone.  Just a thought.

Pacific will be tough.  They keep getting better and they don't lose much from this year's team.  The surprise might be PLU.  They are freaky athletic, capable of putting hurts on people.

I  think it will be a four dog race, with any of the other teams able to put hits on anyone.  Look out for Willamette, too.  They are always scary, especially if they are not supposed to win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2007, 03:21:55 AM
Quote from: bigfella on March 10, 2007, 01:19:28 AM
You can never count Whitworth out of the equation.  They will always get good transfers.  The power to get players out there is for real. 

LC has to be counted in the mix, especially if no one is leaving and if Gaillard is out there hunting down players to help get them better.

UPS is sort of a question mark to me, though.  The talent was illmatic, and they will bring in more players, but the swagger wasn't there this year.  And, Bridge kind of put that swagger in those kids.  I wonder if that has been lost with Eric gone.  Just a thought.

Pacific will be tough.  They keep getting better and they don't lose much from this year's team.  The surprise might be PLU.  They are freaky athletic, capable of putting hurts on people.

I  think it will be a four dog race, with any of the other teams able to put hits on anyone.  Look out for Willamette, too.  They are always scary, especially if they are not supposed to win.

Not sure what you mean about Willamette when they're "not supposed to win."  Just the past 6 seasons, they've been in the top 3 teams (NWC playoff calibre) 4 out of 6 times!  I think people expect Willamette to win.

I do think that UPS & LC will be forces to contend with because they aren't graduating anyone this year.  But Whitworth will be doing some serious rebuilding without Bryan Williams, James Jones, Kevin Hasenfus, and Jon Young and I'm pretty sure they know it.  The only bench players that saw significant playing time were Jurich & Symes, so I think they're going to be in the boat Williamette was in this year -- little or no leadership!  They might have lots of talent, but you need someone who understands the plays & can lead others.  Willamette did a lot better when Erickson, Plank & Stuvland were able to play -- unfortunately, not at the same time.   Willamette's team this year was young -- but they did give UPS a run for their money!

You could be right bigfella, but don't bet the farm on it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 10, 2007, 03:04:05 PM
I would guess that Willamette will not be picked to finish in the top three of the league, thus, they are not expected to win.  No desrespect for them, just saying the truth of the matter.  That makes a team tougher in most cases.  At least to me.  The way they are coached makes them a threat no matter how strong of a team they have.  But, I think they will have to have a very strong recruiting class to be where they have been.  Olinger and Stuvland were a great backcourt, with a sprinkle of Fife and Erickson.  I loved those combos.  Good guards do it in this league.  I think Willamette needs to refuel in that regard.  The lefty is pretty good though.  Smith, I think....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 10, 2007, 11:56:41 PM
Has Hayford ever had a down year at Whitworth?  I don't think so, he loses A LOT, but I think the Pirates will find a way to be in the hunt, maybe not for the title, but for the playoffs.

If LC is not everyone's favorite than something is wrong, everyone back from a championship squad, and a veteran coach.

UPS will be right there, whether the interim guy gets the job or not.

My Boxers should be right there.  I just can't wait to see VanDomlen for the entire year.

Those are the 4 I see in the hunt for the 3 playoff spots, but ofcourse Willamette will be there pushing.  Just looking at the rosters it seems like Fox (Heu Weller/Parker) and Whitman (Born) lose a ton, PLU seems to have their top guys back, and once again, being a Pacific fan, it is great seeing Linfield down at the bottom ;D 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on March 11, 2007, 03:34:21 PM
Just wanted to make an observation to you all about this weekends elite eight.
It speaks well of Whitworth and the Northwest Conference when the teams that beat our representatives at the NCAAs go on and do well.  You may have not noticed but Wash U didn't have too difficult of a time getting by Stevens Pt to get to the Final Point.  I think it says volumes about Whitworth, LC, UPS and the overall strength of our league.

And as for next year, I like LC and UPS, but do not count out Pacific and Whitworth.  I guarantee you that there will be additions to both squads that will make them both top level teams, and then Willamette and PLU will be very dangerous. That only leaves Fox, Whitman and Linfield as true non contenders.
I guess it doesn't take a lot of brains to put everyone in the mix.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 11, 2007, 05:31:49 PM
Was U. is now in the final four...they beat Hope last night.  Man, thats gotta be rough on the Whitworth players.  They all felt that they  could play with the best in the country and turns out they were right. 

For next year, Whitworth has already landed a JC point guard, shooting guard, and a forward.  I don't really know a whole lot about these guys but expect some brand new faces on the Whitworth team next year.  You'll see Symes, Willemsen, and Jurich getting a lot of playing time next season, but there will definately be new faces.  I think LC will be near the top of the league again, but they will still rely heavily on 3 point shooting meaning they can be beat by anyone on any night.  UPS will also be a force in the league.  Willamette hasn't been able to beat Whitworth in quite some time and I don't see next year being much different, even with Nugent having a year under his belt.  I think the same three teams make the conference tourney, LC, UPS, and WW.  And next year the NWC will get two playoff bids.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 11, 2007, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: bigfella on March 10, 2007, 03:04:05 PM
I would guess that Willamette will not be picked to finish in the top three of the league, thus, they are not expected to win.  No desrespect for them, just saying the truth of the matter.[/quote

In the 2006/07 coaches' poll, Lewis & Clark was picked to finish 4th.  What bearing did that have on reality?  Whitworth has had Willamette's number for a few games, but Willamette seems to know how to handle UPS, who by the way, usually knows how to beat Whitworth!  Don't think you can count anyone out.  Also, don't think you have a good grasp, bigfella, of Willamette's team.   They have a lot of talent -- teamwork style talent.  Guess we'll have to wait & see!

(509) Rat -- I sure hope you're right about 2 playoff bids!  The NWC women have that respect & it's time that the men get it!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 11, 2007, 11:03:06 PM
addict -

Your statement explains exactly what I meant.  LC was picked to come in 4th.  That means that no one, except the coaches and players in their locker room believed they could win the league.  I have seen it before.  No one had the LC games circled on their schedules.  Everyone was trying to figure out how to beat UPS Whitworth and Willamette.  That makes a team dangerous, especially if they are out there playing loose.

And, there are good players on Willamette's team.  But, you can't argue that the guards they had last year were a small step above what they have now, right?  Guards win championships in this league.  You have to have play makers.  Willamette has always done a GREAT job of having big strong play making guards who rebounded, handled the rock, and defended well.  I just don't see that on their roster right now, but I may be wrong.  And, I will admit it......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 13, 2007, 01:36:23 PM
2007-2008


1. LC: EVERYONE back, plus they beat UPS 2 out of 3 this season.

2. UPS: EVERYONE back, and just because they lost in the NWC tourney early, people seem to forget they've had a run of 4 years that NO ONE ELSE can match.

3. Whitworth:  The Pirates can and do reload every year....when they lost Avery, CWilliams, Bierlink and Jensen, people claimed they were dead in the water. Then they got BWilliams, Young, Tucker, and Pecht....they lost those guys, everyone said they were dead...so they got Symes and the Fus and JJones...and just keep on winning...I'm almost tempted to pick them higher...

4. WHO CARES....if you're not in the top 3, it doesn't matter, you're done by early February, and you're watching again...

As for Willamette, let's wait to see who they get in recruiting...let's wait and see what players return (as with the Fife and Stuvland sagas, nothing seems guaranteed with them right now)...let's see what condition players return (as posters are correct in saying they NEED TO IMPROVE)...let's see how they adjust to what LC and Whitworth are doing (as they went 0-4 there, with only 1 close game...but seem to have a handle on how to take on UPS)...as much as I'd love to say THEY'LL BE BACK...there are far too many questionmarks after such a dismal season...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 13, 2007, 06:14:48 PM
If there were a coach who can get those question marks answered, it would be Coach James, too.  He does a great job year in and year out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 24, 2007, 05:57:17 PM
Every single basketball coach should keep the last two minutes of the Winona State-Barton NCAA Division II championship game to play for his team every season to see if they can hear any fat ladies singing.

From the LINFIELD website comes this reason I am frustrated with the history being made nowadays.

QuoteTed Wilson Gym bears the name of the man who coached the Linfield basketball team longer and to more wins than any individual in school history. In 20 seasons, Wilson directed the Wildcats in over 500 games, compiling a 324-213 record. Riley Gym was nicknamed the "House of Hustle" out of respect for Wilson's high-scoring teams, which averaged a school-record 96.5 points a game during the 1977-78 season.
Ted Wilson Gym is decorated with 18 Northwest Conference championship banners, 16 of which were won by Wilson between 1961 and 1981.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWFan on April 30, 2007, 12:04:11 PM
It looks like the Lunt got the UPS job permanently.  Should be a fun team to watch next year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: parklandpride on April 30, 2007, 11:21:37 PM
That a kid Lunt....congrats. UPS will be strong for years to come with Lunt at the controls.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 01, 2007, 01:54:05 AM
I wonder who the youngest head coach is in basketball right now... at least of a nationally well known program... he's probably close to the youngest. Or maybe it's just that I'm the same age and I wish I was still young. :D

He posted a very respectable record for a new/interim coach. Should be fun to see how he does in a long term permanent role with his own recruits after the strong legacy that Bridgeland left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on May 04, 2007, 12:06:52 AM
Congrats to Rodney Wecker being named head coach at Austin College.  I am sure all Pirate fans will be pulling for the Kangaroos to do well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 10, 2007, 12:59:39 AM
Yes, congrats to the Whitworth assistant, do the NWC proud and go and turn around Austin!

Congrats to Lunt as well, does he follow Bridgeland's blueprint or does he start to really put his imprints on the program?

Any recruiting news?  The board has been quiet on this front.

Already excited for next year, lots of questions:

Can Whitworth stay dominant with the loss of those seniors as well as a key assistant? 

Will LC and UPS do as expected and finish as the top 2?

Will Willamette bounce back after an un-Willamette type season?

Does Pacific continue to climb?

Where in the world does Whitman go now that Born is gone?

2007-08 is my year to get out to as many NWC games as possible and at as many sites as possible, we should get together as NWC posters at selected games next year, that would be fun.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 18, 2007, 11:12:15 AM
Straight from the rumor mill...Whitworth has 9 commits as of right now.  7 freshman, 2 JUCO's.  Of course this is D III so you never really know who's coming until school starts.  One freshman, Drew Bruns (El Toro HS), was co-mvp of his leaugue along with Gonzaga top 100 recruit Austin Daye of Woodbridge High in Irvine, Calif.  From what I hear from the guys who are all playing open gym is that he could easily break all of Jon Young's outside shooting records.  Another freshman is a 6-4, 6-5 guy who's game looks a lot like Jones'....but they say he's already better than Jones (he's played in open gym as well).  One of the JUCO guys is from Delta CC, the other from Diablo Valley, but I don't know any names.  Looks like Hayford will once again have plenty of talent to choose from....but can this younger Whitworth team still get it done against a tough NWC?  I think so.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 20, 2007, 01:04:50 AM
Thanks for the update Rat, sounds like Whitworth, always talented and find ways to continue to get those quality transfers.

Any other news?  I've heard nothing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 21, 2007, 03:14:30 AM
That's all I've got.  I'll know a lot more about next year's Pirate team once school starts up again.  Weck leaving for Austin College is the only other news I can think of for the Pirates but pineconefan has everyone already updated on that one.  Oh yeah, I forgot one thing...Whitworth will have black road uni's next year...   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 25, 2007, 07:08:12 PM
A new assisstant coach has been hired.  His first name is Josh, but I couldn't get a last name.  He was  GA at Gonzaga and did some assisstant coaching somewhere in Minnesota.  If I get some more info I'll post it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on June 17, 2007, 11:40:58 AM
Greetings NWC posters.  I am going to be working for Puget Sound this upcoming year as an Athletic Dept. Intern.  I come from Greenville College (Greenville, Ill.) and I've been a very, very avid SLIAC Board poster.  I wanted to introduce myself and hope that I will be learning about the Puget Sound ball club and other teams in the NWC and I can have some imput on this already buzzing board! :)

PantherPride // Jermaine
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on June 27, 2007, 07:09:19 PM
Here's the link from the Whitworth website on the new assisstants

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Assistants.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Assistants.htm)

And here is a tentative schedule

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Schedules/Index.aspx?id=2 (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Schedules/Index.aspx?id=2)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 28, 2007, 03:26:17 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on May 25, 2007, 07:08:12 PM
A new assisstant coach has been hired.  His first name is Josh, but I couldn't get a last name.  He was  GA at Gonzaga and did some assisstant coaching somewhere in Minnesota.  If I get some more info I'll post it.

It's Josh Downey, and "somewhere in Minnesota" is Concordia-Moorhead of the MIAC. Too bad that as a Whitworth assistant coach he's not going to be allowed to post here, because he helped to enliven the MIAC room in days of yore under the nom de hoops "Sofa King".
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on July 01, 2007, 01:30:52 PM
That is too bad that he won't be able to post anymore, I'd be curious to see what he has to say about the level of play in the NWC compared to the MIAC.  I posted the Whitworth Athletic site link in my last post on the previous page, It has all of this info with some additional details.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 13, 2007, 02:34:16 AM
Watched an open gym the other day.  Whats scary is that this years team will be more talented than lasts (top to bottom) and that's minus Williams, Jones, Young, and Hasenfus.  The only question (IMO) is can Whitworth find a leader/ someone with the vision on the court that they lost when Williams graduated?  The new Assistants have been working these guys into the ground with the new strength & conditioning program...keep it up ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 13, 2007, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on September 13, 2007, 02:34:16 AM
Watched an open gym the other day.  Whats scary is that this years team will be more talented than lasts (top to bottom) and that's minus Williams, Jones, Young, and Hasenfus.  The only question (IMO) is can Whitworth find a leader/ someone with the vision on the court that they lost when Williams graduated?  The new Assistants have been working these guys into the ground with the new strength & conditioning program...keep it up ;)

Not surprised, Whitworth is always talented.  as far as "the new assistants working these guys into the ground................"  Sounds like an NCAA violation to me.......  I guess if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2007, 03:44:52 PM
I think coaches are allowed to prescribe an offseason lifting program without violating NCAA rules. Not sure what you're thinking of.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 13, 2007, 05:18:30 PM
509-

Can we get a run down of the new super talented WW squad please(size, positions, skills, etc)?  I'd love to know who you think will replace B.Williams, he's the one that made their team go.  I'm not doubting that they re-stocked, i'd just like some detials. 

I'd also like to announce that is UPS is bringing sexy back this year... Foster, Krauel, Marsh, and A. Williams...All of them All NWC in 06-07 and All of them returning for 07-08.  COME GET IT!!! 

It's probably too early, but i wouldnt mind some pre-pre season debate/predictions/trash talking(all in good taste of course) if anyone wants to join me.  Im looking forward to a new season!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 13, 2007, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2007, 03:44:52 PM
I think coaches are allowed to prescribe an offseason lifting program without violating NCAA rules. Not sure what you're thinking of.

You're absolutely right Pat, coaches can "prescribe" an offseason lifting program, if that's what Whitworth assistants did, than yeah, there are no violations.  But when it says they are "working these guys into the ground", it just sounded as if they were in their with them actually directing them and working them out, which is a violation (unless it is part of a university class that is open to all).  That's what I'm "thinking of", just the interpretation of what was said.

Logs - good to see you back on the board, I too am excited for a new season.  UPS does bring back a lot of talent, and JL will be a lot more comfortable in his second year and knowing that it's his job.  LC brings back a boatload of talent as well, also 4 all-leaguers.  Those two have to be the ones to beat this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 13, 2007, 09:11:04 PM
And Logs, don't forget Delong was all league as well, that's their whole starting 5.  There might not be another team in the country who returns all 5 starters who were each all-leaguers, pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 14, 2007, 10:49:35 AM
Quote from: NWCer on September 13, 2007, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2007, 03:44:52 PM
I think coaches are allowed to prescribe an offseason lifting program without violating NCAA rules. Not sure what you're thinking of.

You're absolutely right Pat, coaches can "prescribe" an offseason lifting program, if that's what Whitworth assistants did, than yeah, there are no violations.  But when it says they are "working these guys into the ground", it just sounded as if they were in their with them actually directing them and working them out, which is a violation (unless it is part of a university class that is open to all).  That's what I'm "thinking of", just the interpretation of what was said.

If you're looking to assume the worst or stir up trouble, then yes, you could interpret it that way. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 14, 2007, 11:47:38 AM
Just interpreting, not stirring up trouble or assuming the worst.  Just taking advantage as a DIII fan to do some posting on your wonderful site!  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 17, 2007, 12:26:47 PM
NWCer-

Whoops, I guess i just messed up and forgot to put Delong on there.  The whole point of my last post was to show that UPS has a returning starting five of all-league players...in my excitment i must have just left him off accidentally(talk about a back fire).  Thanks for the correction. 

509, has yet to respond about the talent in Spokane.  You seem to have a good handle on the WW team, who have they reloaded with?  Any info?

And yes, i think you are right, until i hear some more about WW's new guys it looks like LC and UPS will be the top dawgs for sure.  I'm also interested to see if WU will bounce back with some new talent, if anyone has some info on them speak up...bcats?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 17, 2007, 01:46:21 PM
You got it Logs,

Like I said, that's pretty impressive bringing back 5 all-league starters, very impressive, have they added any talented recruits?

Things I've heard:  WU's Nugent is in some academic trouble and may be done.....  LC brought in a couple of studs, and Pacific has brought in a bunch of talented transfers.  Like I said -  I just heard these things, can't confirm - typical out of season gossip.

509 seems to think Whitworth is loaded, or re-loaded, I should say.

Sounds to me like you can ink LC and UPS in the playoffs with Whitworth, Pacific, and maybe Willamette fighting for another spot.  Hard to imagine anyone else with a legitimate shot, maybe PLU?



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 18, 2007, 02:07:38 PM
QuoteOne freshman, Drew Bruns (El Toro HS), was co-mvp of his leaugue along with Gonzaga top 100 recruit Austin Daye of Woodbridge High in Irvine, Calif.

I posted that earlier.  Another one of the freshman likely to make an immediate impact is David Riley (nephew of OSU's Mike RIley).  He's from Palo Alto and has been hitting from all over the court ever since he got here.  I'll try and find out more about the new guys...but as far as returners go, any team who has the talent whitworth does and brings back Ryan Symes (their leading scorer) is going to be good.

Like I said earlier finding a replacement for bryan will be tough.  The biggest thing you lose with him is his ability to distribute the ball and get to the basket.  He wasn't a huge threat to light it up from beyond the 3-point line, or put up 30 points on you in a night but he never needed to.  Next season should be the toughest NWC league we've seen in a few years, especially if Pacific can continue to stay in the mix.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 19, 2007, 04:00:22 PM
Geez, it does look like we are in for a talent up grade from last year!  If what you guys are saying is correct then the league should be stacked.

NWCer-
im really not sure about UPS's incoming freshman for this season, i have heard that they are excited about  2-3 sophmores who didnt hardly play as freshman.  One of them is a big guy that I'm told is a lot like McVey from a couple years back...except with some actual basketball skills.  That would help a lot because last years biggest weakness was on the boards and needing some power inside.  I know Foster and Krauel have also beefed up since last year so the loggers should be pretty rugged in the paint. 

...also, its too bad about Nugent from WU, i thought he was gonna be really good and entertaining to watch. 

Rat-
I forgot about Symes, honestly i wasnt that impressed with him when i saw him(maybe just an off night) but he can score and he will be about the only returning impact player with some NWC experience for the bucs.  Im sure WW will be tough as always.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 19, 2007, 11:30:31 PM
Quote...also, its too bad about Nugent from WU, i thought he was gonna be really good and entertaining to watch.

Straight from the rumor mill...Nugent is down in Cali this season playing some JuCo ball (possibly at Delta).  Sounds like it was academic problems that stemmed from last semester/quarter.  Anyways, looks like the conference title is once again (although it was kind of a surprise last year) gonna be a three dog race.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 20, 2007, 02:22:24 AM
Thanks 509, not good news for Willamette, or the conference, the better players that are in the league, the better for the league overall I say.

Wouldn't count Pacific out of the race just yet, may want to think about making it a 4 dog race, although the history is not there like it is on Palatine Hill, in Tacoma, or Spokane, but I think this may be the year Lowry breaks them through, just a prediction I'm throwing out there based on hearsay about their transfers and a solid core of returners.

Why is there only 3 playoff spots in the tourney anyway, does anyone have any insight on that?  Wouldn't it make sense just to have a round figure like 4?

Crazy early-loose-non committal-in good fun predictions:

1st and 2nd to LC and UPS (any order)
3rd and 4th to Whitworth and Pacific (any order)
5th and 6th to PLU and Willamette (any order)
Linfield, Fox, and Whitman in the bottom 3rd (any order)

will make more solid predictions when we hear more recruiting news and see some rosters, but maybe this will liven the board up...........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 20, 2007, 03:05:40 AM
Makin it a 4 team tourney gives no reward to the conference champ...other than you get to play the #4 seed, which in the last few years wouldn't have been much of a reward  :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 20, 2007, 09:32:34 PM
I hear your point 509.  Three is more favorable for the champ, but having no tourney at all is the ultimate situation for the champ, just playing devils advocate - but why should they have to play in the conference tourney for a spot in the NCAA's when they just proved over a 16 game season that they are the best team?  Valid position, BUT - I like seeing the tourney, and with more teams, although you can easily see why the champ wouldn't.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 21, 2007, 02:43:32 AM
Don't worry NWCer, I'm all for open disussion, new ideas, etc.  Much like a scientist, I tend to question what some call "truth" and attempt to find the flaws in it, simply for the purpose of advancing thought...so how about this explanation.  If you have the best cpnferene record in the NWC you are "rewarded" with a bye and a home game in the conference championship.  Now, thanks to the strong play of previous Whitworth and UPS teams, the NWC is generally regarded as a good conference whose top teams are able to compete on the national level.  By having the conference championship you give your conference the best chance of sending multiple teams to the national tourney by allowing them to play a few extra games, one most often against a nationally ranked team.  So you are right that the Ultimate reward for the team w/ the best record at the end of the regular season is an automatic conference championship, but if you are an AD at an NWC school, on a committee deciding how post season play is determined...you've got not only your team, but the rest of your conference in mind when making the decision. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 21, 2007, 11:26:11 AM
Always up for questioning truth.......

I hear you about best chance to get 2 in, but hear this point: If the NWC champ has a great year and falls in the conference tourney and a team who got hot at the end sneaks in the 3rd slot and wins the conference tourney then they are shipped out to play Wisconsin whoever in the first round on Thursday night and the NWC is gone by Friday morning, because it's most likely that the regular season champ doesn't get an invite (when's the last time NWC had 2 invites?).  On the other hand, sending the regular season champ every time you are sending your best team and as UPS did a couple times, they're at home and with a bye and one win from the sweet 16, better for our conference...........

Sounds like a solid argument, with that said, I still like the tourney ;) :D ;D ??? :-\

Your right, the administrators have to do what is best for the conference as a whole, not your own institution, but I guess the question is, what's right??  4 team tourney, 3 team tourney, no tourney????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 21, 2007, 09:04:43 PM
Quote(when's the last time NWC had 2 invites?)

probably the same year that the NWC tourney champ wasn't the #1 seed    ;D.  Thats actually true...In 97-98 when Whitworth was the regular season champ, they lost to UPS in the first round of a 4 team conference tourney (bad for #1 seed Whitworth) and LC went on to win the tourney.  Guess who went to the playoffs???  Both LC and Whitworth did.  Ever since that season the regular season conference champ has won the conference tourney (probably thanks to the 3-team setup).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 21, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
509,

but what about since the NWC has been Division III...................

I believe the NWC was still NAIA at that time, correct?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 24, 2007, 12:43:01 PM
Quote from: NWCer on September 21, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
509,

but what about since the NWC has been Division III...................

I believe the NWC was still NAIA at that time, correct?

Correct. The first March in which the NWC participated in the D3 tournament was 2000.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 24, 2007, 04:14:25 PM
That's right Sager, LC and Pacific both went that year, and I call myself a Boxer supporter :-\

Has there been any changes to the region since that time, as far as berths to the tourney, or did two of our teams make it basically under the same "system" that is in place now?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 24, 2007, 05:22:19 PM
You'll have to forgive me, I'm not really a NWC history buff so I can't  help in answering these questions :-\ ??? :-[.  But, just out of curiousity, was our league as a whole more competitive on a national level back when we were in the NAIA or now when we are in NCAA D3?  I know that WW had some serious success in the 90's, but how was the rest of the league back in the NAIA days? 

Anybody know?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 24, 2007, 05:46:24 PM
Logs, same as you, my history of this league only goes back several years, but I do know that Willamette won a national championship back in 1993 and I think that LC made a bunch of deep runs in the 90's, I would guess that as an NAIA league overall the NWC's reputation was greater than it is now as D3.  LC made that elite 8 run back in 02, and then UPS in 06 as D3 members, but those probably don't match the number of deep runs the league made as NAIA members, the length of membership probably plays a part in that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 24, 2007, 07:27:03 PM
Quote from: NWCer on September 24, 2007, 04:14:25 PM
That's right Sager, LC and Pacific both went that year, and I call myself a Boxer supporter :-\

Has there been any changes to the region since that time, as far as berths to the tourney, or did two of our teams make it basically under the same "system" that is in place now?

The tourney selection process has been somewhat modified since 2000, in that the pools system now dictates that a specified number of berths have to be set aside for so-called Pool B teams: Independents and teams from conferences that don't have automatic bids. And there are a larger number of conferences that have automatic bids now than there were seven years ago. Conversely, the number of entrants in the tourney has been expanded from 48 to 59 teams.

Quote from: NWCer on September 24, 2007, 05:46:24 PM
Logs, same as you, my history of this league only goes back several years, but I do know that Willamette won a national championship back in 1993 and I think that LC made a bunch of deep runs in the 90's, I would guess that as an NAIA league overall the NWC's reputation was greater than it is now as D3.  LC made that elite 8 run back in 02, and then UPS in 06 as D3 members, but those probably don't match the number of deep runs the league made as NAIA members, the length of membership probably plays a part in that.

I think that a lot of it might have to do with the differences between D3 and the two NAIA divisions. I'm not sure, but my guess is that the NWC was an NAIA-2 league when it was a part of that organization. NAIA-1 is better overall than D3 -- judging by the head-to-head results between NAIA-1 and D3 that're compiled daily every season on this site by poster Rhodes Scholar, the former division seems to fall somewhere between the NCAA's D2 and D3 in terms of overall strength. But D3 is overall slightly better than NAIA-2, although (as with NAIA-1, and D3 itself for that matter) there's often wide variances from one part of the country to another with regard to the caliber of play within that division. Schools that are recent converts from NAIA-2 to D3 haven't exactly torn up D3, although the WIAC (most of which converted from NAIA-2 to D3 in the early '90s) is a conspicuous exception.

Keep in mind as well that both NAIA-1 and NAIA-2 are much, much smaller than D3. NAIA-1 only has 99 participating schools, and NAIA-2 only has 151. D3 had close to 400 schools that fielded men's basketball teams last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 11:13:44 AM
NWCer-

It looks like you have had a better NWC history lesson than me, thanks for the run down.  You probably have a point in that the length of membership probably plays a part in our leagues NCAA D3 success...hopefully we will have more success like LC and UPS have had in recent years!

GS-

Thanks for the insight on the differences between D3 and NAIA.  Although I have to say, having played against and watched the best from both D3 and NAIA 1, in my opinion the best D3 teams are superior to the best NAIA 1 teams.  For example, the top teams from the WIAC and CCIW(D3) are better than the top teams from the GSAC(NAIA 1).   Although the quality through the 400 D3 teams is certainly not at the same level as the 99 NAIA 1 teams....just my personal observation ;D.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 11:13:44 AMGS-

Thanks for the insight on the differences between D3 and NAIA.  Although I have to say, having played against and watched the best from both D3 and NAIA 1, in my opinion the best D3 teams are superior to the best NAIA 1 teams.  For example, the top teams from the WIAC and CCIW(D3) are better than the top teams from the GSAC(NAIA 1).   Although the quality through the 400 D3 teams is certainly not at the same level as the 99 NAIA 1 teams....just my personal observation ;D.

Sorry, I don't agree. When Calvin won the D3 national championship in '00, the Knights went 30-2 for the season. Those two losses were to GSAC teams, Azusa Pacific and Biola. Last season Wooster made it to the D3 Final Four -- and one of the Scots' three regular-season losses was to Cal Baptist, a team that only finished in a third-place tie in the GSAC. Westmont, a middling program by GSAC standards (the Warriors have only finished as high as second on one occasion in the seven seasons since the GSAC expanded), has given CCIW teams fits over the past decade.

Every December St. Xavier (a fairly strong NAIA-1 program on Chicago's South Side) hosts an eight-team tourney that usually includes several strong teams from that division. I've never attended said tourney, but Posting Up HOF Titan Q has. His father, who attends more small-college basketball games than anyone I know (seriously, he and his wife must go to fifty, sixty games a season), never misses this St. Xavier tourney, since he and his wife are SXU season ticketholders. Both Titan Q and his dad assert that the caliber of these NAIA-1 teams have been significantly superior to even the best D3 teams (although last year's slate doesn't appear to have been anything special) ... and since this is CCIW country and the WIAC is not far away, those of us in these parts have a pretty good idea of what constitutes the best D3 teams.

Titan Q has stated that the very top of NAIA-1 is noticeably better than the top of D3. Since he's a CCIW follower and has attended the last dozen D3 Final Fours in addition to checking out that St. Xavier tourney, he's in a better position to make this statement than you or I or just about anyone else on Posting Up.

The room of which I was speaking -- the "D3 vs. D1, D2, NAIA, NCCAA, USCAA" room under Multi-Regional Topics -- seems to have disappeared for some reason. But rest assured that it'll be revived by Rhodes Scholar once the season starts. In fact, you could probably go into the NJAC or CUNYAC rooms right now and ask Rhodes Scholar to give you the breakdown on how D3 as a whole has performed against NAIA-1 and NAIA-2 over the past five or six seasons since he began compiling daily inter-divisional results. (He's a NYC native, so those two conference rooms are where he hangs out.) You'll be surprised at how poorly D3 has fared against NAIA-1.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pabegg on September 25, 2007, 02:12:42 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 01:36:09 PM
The room of which I was speaking -- the "D3 vs. D1, D2, NAIA, NCCAA, USCAA" room under Multi-Regional Topics -- seems to have disappeared for some reason. But rest assured that it'll be revived by Rhodes Scholar once the season starts. In fact, you could probably go into the NJAC or CUNYAC rooms right now and ask Rhodes Scholar to give you the breakdown on how D3 as a whole has performed against NAIA-1 and NAIA-2 over the past five or six seasons since he began compiling daily inter-divisional results. (He's a NYC native, so those two conference rooms are where he hangs out.) You'll be surprised at how poorly D3 has fared against NAIA-1.

It's still there, just on page 2, since there haven't been any posts since the inter-association schedule ended on 2/24. The last post has the season breakdown.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 02:38:50 PM
GS-

Im not going to pretend that i have the same sampling/knowledge as you when it comes to D3 vs NAIA comparisons.  In fact, almost all of my NAIA knowledge comes from the west coast (specifically the GSAC), but for the sake of debate ill try to explain my reasoning.....

The GSAC, which if im not mistaken, is the toughest NAIA 1 league nearly every year plays the NWC several times a season.  While I love the NWC, we are no D3 power conference, with the exception of 2-3 very strong teams(I believe we were rated the 6th toughest league last year).  

Taking last season as an example, Lewis and Clark(2nd in NWC/ did't make the national tourney) lost to Concordia(1st in GSAC/ played in the NAIA 1 championship game) by one point 74-75.  And Whitman(the perennial basement dweller of the NWC) beat Biola(generally a tough GSAC team) by a score of 71-69.  

Additionally...because of their close proximity in Southern Cali the SCIAC(D3) and GSAC also play several times a year.  The SCIAC is one of D3's weakest conferences yet they are able to put up a good fight against the GSAC every year.  For example last year La Verne(SCIAC) lost to Westmont(GSAC) by 4 and Pomona(SCIAC) beat Vanguard(GSAC) by 15.  If the NAIA is that much superior, there is no way SCIAC teams should be able to hang. 

I've also seen Azusa Pacific play which is one of the true NAIA 1 powerhouses year in and year out.  In my opinion they dont stack up to the best D3 teams I've seen such as UW Steven's Point and Illinios Wesleyan.

I realize that i haven't used a large sampling here, but hopefully you can see why I think the way i do when it comes to D3 vs. NAIA 1.  Two west coast D3 conferences, which are not the best D3 has to offer, are able to compete with and sometimes beat teams from the best NAIA 1 conference in the nation.  Overall, NAIA may have an edge, but at the top its close from what I've seen.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?  I've heard this debate many times and it's kind of fun to go back and forth about....plus im bored  :-\.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 02:38:50 PMThe GSAC, which if im not mistaken, is the toughest NAIA 1 league nearly every year

The Sooner Athletic Conference (Oklahoma City, Southern Nazarene, Oklahoma Baptist, John Brown, etc.) would beg to differ, but the GSAC is certainly right up there among NAIA-1 leagues.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 02:38:50 PMplays the NWC several times a season.

No, it doesn't. The NWC and GSAC faced off twice in each of the past two seasons. The two leagues didn't cross paths at all in 2004-05, and they met once apiece in the two seasons before that. That's hardly "several times a season."

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 02:38:50 PMTaking last season as an example, Lewis and Clark(2nd in NWC/ did't make the national tourney) lost to Concordia(1st in GSAC/ played in the NAIA 1 championship game) by one point 74-75.  And Whitman(the perennial basement dweller of the NWC) beat Biola(generally a tough GSAC team) by a score of 71-69.

Given the breadth of D3 vs. NAIA-1 competition, the L&C vs. Concordia (CA) result is anomalous. What you didn't mention about the Whitman win over Biola is that, although it probably does qualify as an upset for the NWC, Biola had a very, very bad season by that program's standards. The Eagles finished seventh in the GSAC and sported a losing record both in league play and overall.

Of the six NWC vs. GSAC contests over the past five years, the only NWC win was that Whitman victory last season.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 02:38:50 PMAdditionally...because of their close proximity in Southern Cali the SCIAC(D3) and GSAC also play several times a year.  The SCIAC is one of D3's weakest conferences yet they are able to put up a good fight against the GSAC every year.  For example last year La Verne(SCIAC) lost to Westmont(GSAC) by 4 and Pomona(SCIAC) beat Vanguard(GSAC) by 15.  If the NAIA is that much superior, there is no way SCIAC teams should be able to hang. 

You're really reaching with the "put up a good fight against the GSAC" statement. Here's how the SCIAC has fared against the GSAC over the past five seasons:

2006-073-8
2005-064-5
2004-051-7
2003-043-8
2002-034-4

More importantly, all but two of those 15 SCIAC wins have come against Vanguard and Hope International. Vanguard has finished in the GSAC's first division only once in that five-year span, and has a 32-68 record in GSAC play (58-96 overall) during that span. Hope International is the footwipe of the GSAC; the Royals have won only three GSAC games over the past five years (and keep in mind that GSAC teams play a twenty-game league schedule each season), and they've won only eight games total in league play since they joined the GSAC prior to the 1999-2000 season. I'll do the math for you: Hope International has gone 8-152  (.050) since joining the league.

These are the two teams against whom the SCIAC has had almost all of its success. And yet it's not as though the GSAC is doing the same thing by consistently playing the SCIAC's creampuff; in fact, Caltech is the only SCIAC program that has not played a GSAC school over the past five years.

To sum up: The SCIAC bears a losing record against the GSAC over the past five years in spite of the fact that the two GSAC programs that the SCIAC has played the most has been the two worst programs that the NAIAers have to offer.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 02:38:50 PMI've also seen Azusa Pacific play which is one of the true NAIA 1 powerhouses year in and year out.  In my opinion they dont stack up to the best D3 teams I've seen such as UW Steven's Point and Illinios Wesleyan.

Illinois Wesleyan's radio broadcaster, who also saw both Final Fours in which UWSP walked off with the Walnut & Bronze, doesn't agree with you about the top of NAIA-1 vs. the top of D3.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 02:38:50 PMI realize that i haven't used a large sampling here, but hopefully you can see why I think the way i do when it comes to D3 vs. NAIA 1.  Two west coast D3 conferences, which are not the best D3 has to offer, are able to compete with and sometimes beat teams from the best NAIA 1 conference in the nation.  Overall, NAIA may have an edge, but at the top its close from what I've seen.

Again, your evidence regarding the performance of the NWC and SCIAC against the GSAC is both anecdotal and extremely limited. The preponderance of D3 vs. NAIA-1 results -- and, again, I'd urge you to contact Rhodes Scholar for this info -- tilts heavily in NAIA-1's favor. And the eyewitness opinions of two basketball observers whom I respect, who by your own admission see a broader range of both D3 and NAIA-1 than you, disagree with you about how the top of NAIA-1 stacks up against the top of D3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on September 25, 2007, 04:11:24 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 01:36:09 PM...Posting Up HOF Titan Q...
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 01:36:09 PMBut rest assured that it'll be revived by Rhodes Scholar...

Just for consistency's sake, I'll point out that Rhodes Scholar is also a member of the Posting Up Hall of Fame.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on September 25, 2007, 04:33:52 PM
As Greg mentioned, I have a pretty good feel for both NCAA Division III and NAIA I/ II as I get to see a lot of good teams from both affiliations play each year.  I am the color commentator for Illinois Wesleyan men's basketball but I also get to several NAIA games each year due to a long-time family following of St. Xavier U., a perennially ranked NAIA I program.  (Also, IWU plays Olivet Nazarene every year - ONU is usually ranked in the NAIA I Top 25 and has made several deep tourney runs.)

I feel confident in saying that the very top tier of NAIA I is quite a bit better than the best NCAA Division III team year in, year out.  The teams that Robert Morris (Chicago) has been rolling out the last 3-4 years would dismantle even the best Division III teams...and Robert Morris hasn't won a national title.  They've been ranked #1 in NAIA I for long stretches but have been beaten in the Final Four. 

This all has to be put in perspective though -- that Robert Morris program I speak of features 4 or 5 Division I (major) transfers each season.  One of their recent stars was a bonafide McDonald's All-American...not just a nominee, but actually played in the game.  I think most of the Final Four-caliber NAIA I teams look much more like a good NCAA II team...some even like a mid-major D1 (like Robert Morris and all of their transfers).  A few years back, Lorenzo Gordon from Illinois State transfered to Oklahoma City...Gordon was the "Freshman of the Year" in the Missouri Valley, which is probably the best mid-major league in D1.  D3 teams just do not run into that caliber of transfer.   Check out some of these RMC bios...

http://www.robertmorris.edu/athletics/mensbasketball/chicago/roster/

John Winchester started for Tennessee...Reggie George for Iowa State.

The only Division III team I have ever seen that is on par with a national championship-caliber NAIA I team is the 1996 Rowan team (with 4 or 5 really good D1 transfers)...and I have been to Salem with Illinois Wesleyan four times (1996, 1997, 2001, 2006) and to the D3 Final Four several other times.   

Where things even out is after that "first tier" of NAIA I teams.  From about 6 or 7 all the way down to 25 in each poll, it seems the NAIA I and NCAA D3 teams are pretty even.  IWU has defeated Olivet Nazarene in 16 of the last 17 meetings and again, ONU has been ranked and a tourney team most of those seasons.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 05:29:45 PM
HOLY COW!!!

Thanks for the reply fellas. 

Greg-

I'm definitely picking up what your putting down, you deserve the win, you put some serious effort into that one.  I was just looking for a little insight...no need to sick the calvary on me.  I appreciate all the stats but geez, take a chill pill bro!  I don't have the knowledge, time, or research to debate with you....not that I would win anyways.  I was just putting my limited observations and opinions out for discussion.  Now that I have been badly shot down and I feel like Jodie Foster in "the accused", I think I'm just gonna take my ball and go home ;) :D :o. 

...but ill be back Greg, the next topic of debate is the color of the sky.  I will be taking the position of blue, you will be limited to two paragraphs of only 4 sentences each....AND I can cut and paste from any source I want, without citing my sources :-*.   COME GET IT!!!

Titan Q-

I appreciate the conversational response, its much more warm and fuzzy than Greg's "Law and Order" approach.   Having tangled with some VERY good Illinois Wesleyan teams myself, and knowing that you see a lot of good D3 ball over there in the Midwest... if you say NAIA 1 is better.... well then I guess I believe you.  As I told GS, all I really know of NAIA is the GSAC and since they dont seem THAT much better than even the SCIAC :P I haven't been all that impressed.  But some of those transfers that Robert Morris has picked up sound serious and your right D3 doesnt see guys like that.  Thanks for your comments. 



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2007, 05:43:20 PM
UPSoundLogs,  Please don't feel like you were smash-mouthed by Gregory Sager.

He usually does an outstanding job of researching a question.

We Post Pattern veterans flock to the page where the most recent Grearoy Sager D-III White Paper has been published to learn from his wisdom.

Welcome back to the NWC and the D-3 Message Boards.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 06:02:38 PM
I am laughing my butt off right now.  Those HOFs go to the limit.  I do remember , though, when a pretty good Lewis & Clark State team, who went 30-2 going into the national tournament, lost their only two games to Lewis & Clark College.  And, those loses were by an average of 20 points.

This is not an argument because I don't want to read "War and Peace" again.  Just remembering a pretty good NAIA school going down to an average D3 squad.

NAIA D1 is better by a long shot for the most part, but isn't comparing apples to oranges being that those schools have the ability to give extra dough to student athletes?  And, I couldn't believe the entrance requirements are anywhere close to those of DIII schools.

GS, can I get you to do some research for a couple of my term papers?  You are pretty thorough.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on September 25, 2007, 04:11:24 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 01:36:09 PM...Posting Up HOF Titan Q...
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 01:36:09 PMBut rest assured that it'll be revived by Rhodes Scholar...

Just for consistency's sake, I'll point out that Rhodes Scholar is also a member of the Posting Up Hall of Fame.

Well, I wasn't going to name-drop the Hall of Fame other than citing Q's membership, 'cuz I remember the rather ... uh, allergic reaction that some of the NWC posters had to HOFers when we swooped down upon this room last season. But, heck, now that the gang's all here ...  :D

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 05:29:45 PM
I'm definitely picking up what your putting down, you deserve the win, you put some serious effort into that one.  I was just looking for a little insight...no need to sick the calvary on me.  I appreciate all the stats but geez, take a chill pill bro!

Honestly, I wasn't trying to deal you a pro wrestling pile-driver or anything like that. As Ralph indicated, this is simply my usual m.o. when there's a topic of debate afoot. My line of thinking is: Where's the evidence? Is it statistical, empirical, and/or accessible? Can I bring it to light as a part of this discussion? Don't take it personally. It's just the way that I operate.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 05:29:45 PM
I appreciate the conversational response, its much more warm and fuzzy than Greg's "Law and Order" approach.

I'm actually more of a Jack Webb from Dragnet kind of guy. Just the facts, ma'am. ;)

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 05:29:45 PM
...but ill be back Greg, the next topic of debate is the color of the sky.  I will be taking the position of blue, you will be limited to two paragraphs of only 4 sentences each....AND I can cut and paste from any source I want, without citing my sources :-*.   COME GET IT!!!

OK, but you've got to give me at least a couple of days to do some research.

Quote from: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 06:02:38 PM
This is not an argument because I don't want to read "War and Peace" again.

Andrei dies. Nikolai marries Maria, and they raise Andrei's son. Pierre marries Natasha. The Russians win. The French lose.

See? I'm not afraid of brevity. :D

Quote from: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 06:02:38 PM
NAIA D1 is better by a long shot for the most part, but isn't comparing apples to oranges being that those schools have the ability to give extra dough to student athletes?

Yep.

Quote from: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 06:02:38 PMAnd, I couldn't believe the entrance requirements are anywhere close to those of DIII schools.

Yep again, mostly.

Quote from: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 06:02:38 PM
GS, can I get you to do some research for a couple of my term papers?  You are pretty thorough.  :)

As Mae West once said, "I may be easy, but I ain't cheap." :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 25, 2007, 06:27:38 PM
Those Hall of Famers earned their stripes..........  I have a long way to go.....................

Big Fella, you haven't posted in a while, I remember you having good insight on the league back during tourney time.  You have anything for this year for a bored fan like me, any news throughout the league?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 25, 2007, 06:34:55 PM
Ralph-

No problem, im not insulted at all.  I dont even think anything GS said was meant in a bad way...I just got completely dominated in the debate...thats all.  If I couldnt take it I wouldn't dish it out...  I like his moves, and I like his style ;)!!!

BigFella-

Yes!!! I was hoping you would show up sometime soon....now Im just waiting for Bcats.  And no doubt, you guys had some TOUGH Lewis and Clark teams a few years ago....  

Actually, you know what?  That brings up another good debate topic.  What NWC team, from one single year, has been the best? Im not talking about runs over several years...just one team one year.  LC? WW? UPS? Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 06:51:17 PM
GS -

I can dig it.  You do your thing pretty dang solid.

Soundlogs -

I just happened to look at these past posts.  I have been away for too long to have anything concrete, other than it looks like WW has reloaded, and UPS has everyone back, plus some.  Also heard that bartlett from PU is out for the year.  He was a glue type of guy, so that could hurt.  Willamette lost it's best player and have already struggled.  Gordy is the best at using lesser talent, so he will come up with something.  My three questions are:

1) Can WW, who will never have a shortage of talent, have a QB like BWilliams?  I loved JJones, but BW was the heart of that squad.  That's only my opinion, though.   Without a cool PG, WW can struggle.  I only say that because the PG has the ball in his hands a lot in that system.

2) Is UPS going to to run the same style?  It looks like the league is catching up to that style of play and the Saturday games are being much harder to win after expending all that energy the night before.

3) Is anyone going to pay PLU any attention.  They were scary last year and lost only one player.  Plus, they brought in a pretty good group this year from what I have heard.

I am not as close to the action as I was before, but I keep in contact with peopel and will drop some dimes as I get info.

Peace.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 07:24:35 PM
The best teams I have seen would be in order:

1) Willamette 1992 - Mahoney the PG and Greg Ward were studs.  Mahoney was a 6'6" D1 transfer PG that could get down with anyone.  The big fella Ward was a monster and they big strong guards who could shoot it and play.  That team could have beaten any NAIA D1 team in my opinion.  They could play fast or slow, and you were not going to out rebound them.  It was one and out everytime.  And, they did not turn the ball over.  Just a GREAT team.

2) The 1994 LC team with Derek Foster at the PG.  Foster lead the nation in assists and was the best player at that level that year.  Their team lost to a VERY good Northern State team in the Final Four.  That year all five starters averaged between 12 and 20 points per game.  They were good.

3) The WW team that went to the Final game in 1996, I believe.  They had incredible guards and athletic big guys who finished over anyone.  Roman Wickers, who the called "The mouth of the South", was as unstoppable as you could get, and their PG was a general.

4) The 2002 LC team with Scott Davis.  That team had a blend of size and great guard play.  If they had more ball handlers, I would put them above #2 and #3, but they rebounded, shot it, and just played ball.  That team didn't run many plays, as they just played off of Scott.  John Mietus, Chris Spier, Scott D, and Colin Oriard were just tough.

5) a tie between UPS's Final 8 team and WW's team with Gunner Nelson, I believe his name to be.  Both of those team could flat out play.

These are only my opinion and to be honest the teams since we have become D3 aren't as tough as what we had as NAIA.  The overall talent has dropped off.

And last year's WW team probably should be in there, but so should the LC team with Brooks Meek as a senior.  Man, I forgot the Pacific team with Brett Jefferies.  They were good, too.  I can go on for days.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 26, 2007, 12:09:58 AM
Wow Big Fella, what a bummer, had no idea Bartlett wouldn't be with my Boxers :'( :-\ ??? >:(, any idea why? 

I've heard word out of FG that they're really high on their transfers but didn't get the news about Bartlett - shows you how much I know about the team I'm supposed to represent :-\.  You're right, he was a glue guy, hopefully they can overcome.

So WW is loaded, not surprising, what about your Pios, it's not as if they lose anyone.......

What is it you heard about PLU's new guys?  Do you agree with me that Fox, Whitman, and Linfield will be bringing in the rear this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2007, 01:42:50 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 06:26:56 PM
Can I bring it to light as a part of this discussion? Don't take it personally. It's just the way that I operate.
...
Or as they say on LLPP (Liberty league Post Patterns) Football message board,

It's just the way that I "roll".

I remember the trip to Lewis and Clark that Sul Ross State made in 2004.  The Lobos almost knocked off the Larrys.  That was a great game!  L&C made for a great neutral court for Lawrence and SRSU to play.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 27, 2007, 12:18:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2007, 05:43:20 PM
We Post Pattern veterans flock to the page where the most recent Grearoy Sager D-III White Paper has been published to learn from his wisdom.

LOL ..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 27, 2007, 12:20:58 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 25, 2007, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: bigfella on September 25, 2007, 06:02:38 PM
This is not an argument because I don't want to read "War and Peace" again.

Andrei dies. Nikolai marries Maria, and they raise Andrei's son. Pierre marries Natasha. The Russians win. The French lose.

See? I'm not afraid of brevity. :D

Deleted for space and obviousness. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Historian on October 13, 2007, 05:27:55 PM
I just wanted the readers of this board to know that the front page feature article on Adolphe Coulibaly and the included photo were stolen from a feature article written by Amherst College's Sports Information Director, Alex Kantor.

You can find the original article here:

https://cms.amherst.edu/athletics/teams/winter/basketball-m/articles/2007_08/0927_coulibaly_feature

Pat Coleman has been asked to give credit to the original author of this article, but he has refused to do so.  He has even refused to post a byline to the article saying that it first appeared in an Amherst College release.

I love this website and enjoy the attention it gives to d3 basketball, but I am seriously disturbed by this complete and utter disregard for journalistic integrity on the part of Pat Coleman.

Alex Kantor is a professional SID, and his professional work should be rightfully credited.  He was never asked permission to have his words posted to this commercial website, and his personal request to Pat Coleman to have his name added to the front page of the website was promptly rebuked.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on October 14, 2007, 02:09:21 AM
Historian,

Your complaint is misguided.  The article wasn't copy-righted, it was pulled off of an open forum (school web site) or perhaps release directly to specific media outlets (D3hoops included).

As SIDs we send out press releases without any expectation of credit or byline.  My press releases have often been carried word for word in local media and I have never requested credit or byline, because like wire service reports - that information is sent out with the expectation it will be used.

And if you are going on every board with this kind of foolishness, you are just embarrasing yourself.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2007, 02:56:41 AM
Quote from: steveflegel on October 14, 2007, 02:09:21 AM
Historian,

Your complaint is misguided.  The article wasn't copy-righted, it was pulled off of an open forum (school web site) or perhaps release directly to specific media outlets (D3hoops included).

As SIDs we send out press releases without any expectation of credit or byline.  My press releases have often been carried word for word in local media and I have never requested credit or byline, because like wire service reports - that information is sent out with the expectation it will be used.

And if you are going on every board with this kind of foolishness, you are just embarrasing yourself.

Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. Not sure why this is such a big deal.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on October 14, 2007, 11:47:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2007, 02:56:41 AM
Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. Not sure why this is such a big deal.

It's a big deal with The Historian, but it doesn't appear to be a big deal to anyone else.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 17, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
Have any of the schools started practice yet?  I heard that UPS was waiting till the 21st so they didn't have to take a week off during christmas.

Also schedule wise, do any of the teams have a noteworthy nonconference opponent?  Thought UPS was going to play Eastern or Oregon St. but neither were on the schedule :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dumpdotes on October 21, 2007, 05:06:40 PM
Linfield started Wed... Sad situation there- out of 16 players on last years roster, three graduated, only four players coming back. They play Portland St. on 11/20. It will be a long year for the Cata. Something needs to change...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: hoopsknowall on October 21, 2007, 11:01:53 PM
Quote from: dumpdotes on October 21, 2007, 05:06:40 PM
Linfield started Wed... Sad situation there- out of 16 players on last years roster, three graduated, only four players coming back. They play Portland St. on 11/20. It will be a long year for the Cata. Something needs to change...

In response to DumpDotes comment.  Linfield does not have many returners from last year's squad true, but that team only won 8 games.  With the returners they have (Murphy, Taylor), the new incoming class of freshmen, and the addition of transfers that Coach Doty was responsible for bringing in who will contribute solid minutes,  Linfield's Cat Attack might be back this year, they could surprise the league.     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 21, 2007, 11:31:03 PM
Hoopsknowall,

I do agree with part of your statement in response to dumpdotes (that's a funny name by the way).  Why do you even want the returners from that team?  Cleaning house, whether it was the coaches intent or not, is probably best for Linfield, that was a bad roster.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dumpdotes on October 22, 2007, 12:04:54 PM
Let's take a closer look... Emil Kim averaged 10ppg and as a freshman became one of the most exciting p[layers in the conference. He is gone. Don't buy the homesick nonsense. He clashed with Doty from the begining- even quitting the team at one point. Andy baldwin had a year of eligibility left and was considering coming back but opted not to. Mike Van Loon transfered to NWCC where he will be a star. He was in the doghouse because he had problems with the "graduate" asst. coach. Sten Morgan made over 50% of his shots last year averaging 5.5ppg. He quit. Jackson Baber was the teams leading rebounder and was among the conf. leaders in boards and blocked shots. He quit. Harrison harter quit at the start of last season. There is not one junior left in that program. Three of them were on the varsity roster as freshman.  Matt magowan, an all state player from redmond left before last season. On and on. Players are not developed in this program. The players walking around that campus who have QUIT the program would beat whoever dotes puts on the floor this year.

This has been going on for years, go back to when OJ gully left the program. The fact is- except for the years that he used " the system" where players coached themselves. Doty is a .500 coach
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dumpdotes on October 22, 2007, 12:21:28 PM
by the way, it should be noted that the Cats lost ten games by six or fewer points, two by seven. Against Whitman, the point guard went the length of the court in 3 secs. for the winning lay up. In another game, with time running down, they failed to get the ball across mid court resulting in a turnover that led to the winning bucket. That couldn't be coaching could it?

Here is my favorite- ask any player on last year's team about this- Andy baldwin had 14 points, including some long range bombs, at half time. Dotes tells the kids they need to get him the ball more. he did not play a second in the second half...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 22, 2007, 12:57:00 PM
All good inside stuff dumpdotes (couldn't be one of those players who quit could you?  ;)).

The fact is the roster still wasn't very good, regardless of what your Coach did or didn't do.  Seems like you know the situation well, so I ask you, honestly, what team in the conference, based on talent alone, do you think Linfield was better then last year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 22, 2007, 01:01:41 PM
Quote from: dumpdotes on October 22, 2007, 12:21:28 PM
by the way, it should be noted that the Cats lost ten games by six or fewer points, two by seven. Against Whitman, the point guard went the length of the court in 3 secs. for the winning lay up. In another game, with time running down, they failed to get the ball across mid court resulting in a turnover that led to the winning bucket. That couldn't be coaching could it?

And the players have nothing to do with that.............................

Not backing Doty as coach of the year, but in those close games the players are going to have to make plays at some point.........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dumpdotes on October 22, 2007, 08:14:00 PM
well, it appears that you are a Boxers fan, you don't want to see Linfield get better... I am not an ex player, just someone who knows a lot of kids who have played there. based on talent alone, the only two schools that were that much better than Linfield were Whitworth and UPS. I am serious. The coach did nothing with what he had. Go back and listen to darrell aune's broadcasts of the games. Listen to how often he wonders what offense the cats are running, no standing ,as that is what everyone was doing. They had as much size as anyone in the conference last year but I bet you could count the number of low post passes the big guys got on one hand- the entire season. all the big guys did was set high post screens so Timperly and brooks could launch bombs. go back to when timperly was really struggling- his assists should have gone up, but he was allowed to keep throwin up bombs. Talk to some players, they think (and treat him like) he's a joke.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 22, 2007, 10:51:17 PM
Guilty dumpdotes, I am a Boxers fan, but have mentioned that many a time before.  So by your account, Linfield had the third best talent in the league last year behind UPS and Whitworth?  Ahead of, or on par with, co-champion LC?? ??? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dumpdotes on October 22, 2007, 11:11:08 PM
sorry nwcer, i forgot l& c. however, the cats only lost to l& c by 6 at home. they lost to UPS by 6 & 7. the talent was there, the coaching was not.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 22, 2007, 11:17:22 PM
Quotebased on talent alone, the only two schools that were that much better than Linfield were Whitworth and UPS
I for one would have to disagree with opinion, any neutral observer would probably rank Linfield's talent in the bottom 3rd of the league.  Pacific definately, GFox, PLU, and maybe even Whitman had the edge on Linfield last year. 

Dumps, if Linfield had so much talent down low last year, then why did they get out rebounded by 2 a game last year?  Linfield over the past few years has had the tendency to quit in the second half of games, its probably a good thing Doty cleaned house
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 23, 2007, 01:36:37 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 22, 2007, 12:57:00 PM
All good inside stuff dumpdotes (couldn't be one of those players who quit could you?  ;)).

Take a look at his e-mail address: baber@bendcable.com. More than likely, he's either Jackson Baber or one of his relatives.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 23, 2007, 02:11:23 AM
Sager and OB, I figured it out early, was just trying to give the Wildcat a chance to come clean  :D............

Only teams I didn't see play last year was Whitworth and Whitman, the Wildcat already humbly admitted that Whitworth had better talent, and with Born and Faidley, all leaguers, who swept Linfield, I'm going to say that Whitman had better talent,

And Logshow, I agree that Linfield's talent was in the bottom third easily and I'll add Willamette to that list of teams with better talent that you mentioned, SO, I think that's everyone in the league.............  Any other opinions out there???

Enough with last year, lets talk about the upcoming season!

UPS and LC have to be the favorites, hopefully my Boxers can overcomes Bartlett's injury with Van Domelen, Harrison-Davis and their transfers and battle Whitworth and PLU for one of those 3 conference tournament spots, if Willamette really is missing Nugent that hurts them, it seems like Fox will be down as well as Whitman, and dumpdoty's old squad, stripped of all that talent from last season's last place team  ;D, is probably pulling in the rear again...........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 23, 2007, 03:07:36 AM
NWCer (nice jab at the end of your post) does Van Domelen still eligibility left???  I swear that he played a few years under Schumann!
What is his story?

Looking at the up coming year...
Quite honestly LC scares me. I think that Gailard has done a heck of a job getting talent in there, those guys can play.  Taboni gets the job done night in and night out and Revera might be the most underrated player in the NWC, he does it all, including bring the ball up against our press. 

Even if Whitworth has reloaded, I think their window has passed.  You don't lose 4 starters and 90% of production, mins played, and experience with out a dip in preformance.  And losing BWilliams can't be over looked, he single handedly made that team go.  Thats not to say they won't be tough...

Pacific will be better.  Their coach has them playing hard and the guys seem to be buying in.  It will be tough to walk out of Forrest Grove with a win.  The real question is how they will play on the road...that is how a average team can turn the corner.

PLU will be interesting to watch this year.  They finally have a coach that gives the program some stability and can keep the kids around.  Still don't think they are ready to comptete yet, but program could be heading in the right direction.

GFox, Whitman, and Willamette will probably be very average.  Unless Coach James can pull some real magic.  And Linfield will have its struggles this year.

Finally I come to the Loggers.  They return everyone, and should be hungry to win some games...considering they lost 4 of their last 5 to end 2007.  They are loaded with talent, but can they channel it to a common goal of winning a conference title?  UPS has a lot to prove to the league and themselves.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on October 23, 2007, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 23, 2007, 02:11:23 AM
Sager and OB, I figured it out early, was just trying to give the Wildcat a chance to come clean  :D............

I think pretty much everyone figured it out, except perhaps Mr. Dumpdotes himself, who I see is now a 'guest.' 

"Oh, my email address displays on my posts?  D'oh!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 23, 2007, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on October 23, 2007, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 23, 2007, 02:11:23 AM
Sager and OB, I figured it out early, was just trying to give the Wildcat a chance to come clean  :D............

I think pretty much everyone figured it out, except perhaps Mr. Dumpdotes himself, who I see is now a 'guest.' 

"Oh, my email address displays on my posts?  D'oh!"

That's funny.........

Logshow, VanDomelen has been around forever, he did play two years under Shumann, left school for a couple of years and then returned last year, so I'm pretty sure he has one left, I know he was listed as a Jr. last year. 

And Logshow, you hit the hammer on the head about my Boxers and gettin' it done on the road, and I'm with you about PLU

You're right about LC, absolutely scary, they got that swagger, and a whole lot of talent

Seems like it can be a great year in the conference
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 23, 2007, 05:17:27 PM
First of all, thats hilarious about dumpdotes!!! To have your "secret identity" ousted on your first couple posts is pretty impressive...but to try and deny you've been found out is even better!!!  NWCer, you strung him along beautifully, I like ur style :D :D :D.  Not everyone can be as sneaky as Peter Parker i guess ;).

Just to put in my two cents on the topic...Linfield has been in the basement of the conference for the last several years.  The last legit players that they had were Sam Kreuger and Blake Shelton, in recent years they have seriously struggled to put talented guys on the floor.  And really there's no excuse for it.  They have some of the best sports facilities in the NWC and should be able to recruit players to match.  They have an awesome football team year in and year out, so why should BBall be any different? 

Anyways, enough about that...lets talk about some teams that can actually win some games this year.

Here's my pre-season picks...

1) UPS- returning 5 all NWC selections is just sick!!!  And they have much more experienced role players this year, plus some talented Sophs that didnt get much time last season.  If they come out and play with fire this year they could be even better than the 2006 elite 8 sqad.  

2) LC- I was very impressed with the Pios last year and they should be even tougher this year. Their power and athleticism inside will destroy a lot of teams.

3) WW- Ill have to see it to believe the hype, but from what i've heard they have reloaded pretty nicely.  But, they wont be able to make up for their lost seniors and experience...especially BWilliams.

4) Pacific- they have been on the verge of being really good the last couple years.  I think Logshow is right, they'll need to get some road wins to get over the hump.  They'll give everyone trouble at their place though. 

5) WU- They were tough last year, but if what im hearing is right and Nugent is gone they wont have a real "star" quality go to guy.  I'm thinking they will still be tough, but very inconsistant.  I think they're kind of a wild card and their home gym is always a rough place to play...especially with the drawbridge baskets.

6) 7) 8 9) Gfox/WTM/PLU/Linfield...the basement is crowded this year, my initial feeling is that the bottom half of the league is gonna be pretty weak.  Only time will tell...  I'll give a slight edge to PLU because they finally got a coach change. 

I'm looking forward to an entertaining season, GO LOGGERS!!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 23, 2007, 07:04:25 PM
Pretty solid picks Sounds, I still have to give the nod to LC, even with the impressive talent UPS has coming back, but it could go either way, LC is the co-champ and got them 2 of 3 times, but going with your boys is natural.  I hear you on Whitworth too, they lost a lot, and it sounds like they lost a lot of saavy, that's hard to replace, even if they brought in this great class. 

Are you listening Boxers?!?!  Get it done on the road this year!!  All the posters are right on that one (road play), I can't even defend that one, you just got to go get em!

I think PLU may be better than those teams you grouped them with.

Jackson, I mean Dumpdotes, no worries, we welcome your first hand experience within the Linfield regime, anything else you got for us???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dumpdotes on October 23, 2007, 07:17:58 PM
No, This is Jackson's dad. For two years, I have watched this guy demean and belittle kids, including mine who finnally had enough. i am not trying to hide anything I have been at work all day. This "coach" was my family's best friend when he wanted my son to attend Linfield. He ethically told us that the Willamette coach might not be around all four years my son was in school. He set a curfew during a tournament in Tempe and did not enforce it. When parents found out two kids were missing, they went looking for them.
Turns out they had bben arrested for Drunk in Public. When told about it, he went back to sleep. Some parents(not the kids) bailed them out so they could make the team flight home. He is the coach, who when 9 parents make the road trip to Spokane and walla walla can't even say thanks for coming. Not a good guy and I am looking forward to telling him that to his face. I have nothing to hide - Sorry if I misled anyone. I have just grown very tired of seeig good kids leave A DIVISION 3 PROGRAM because of the way they are treated.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 23, 2007, 07:35:43 PM
Dumpdotes-

My apologies for making light of your situation in my last post, it's too bad that a coach who is supposed to be a leader should feel the need to act that way :-\.  That being said, Linfield DOES need to find more talented players if they expect to compete with some of the top NWC teams.  Especially UPS and LC who are both stacked this year.

Hey Logshow-

Just out of curiosity, what comes before Logshow ???(if that doesnt make sense to you then dont worry about it) It's good to have another UPS guy around!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 23, 2007, 07:46:02 PM
Dumpdotes, not good stuff to hear coming out of Linfield, too bad, whether I'm a Boxer backer or not.  But as Logs mentioned, their talent still is lacking in comparison to the rest of the league, and if you have an atmosphere like your describing on top of below average talent, escaping last place is going to be a major chore.

Sounds and Logs, two UPS backers, I see you two cornering the market on the board this year  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 23, 2007, 07:47:01 PM
Been spending most of my time on the football side so far this fall, so it has been a nice surprise to come over and catch up on a lot of reading.

I do want to respond to recent posts, however.

I have wondered about Doty's situation at Linfield.  I wonder if he isn't just going through the motions at this point.  It seems like the stretch where they won the title two out of four years in 1999 and 2001 that he learned basketball will never be really appreciated at such a football-centric school.

But, in response to DumpDotes - I have seen enough disgruntled athletes and especially their parents to know that EVERYTHING they say about a coach needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Did you want Doty to sit in the lobby of the hotel and essentially babysit by making sure kids didn't sneak out - or should he treat them like adults and let them follow the clearly stated curfew.  Then when they didn't, I know there are a lot of coaches at every level who wouldn't go get students who had embarrassed the program so badly, but let them miss the flight and find their own way home.  Again - its about treating them like adults and letting them learn from their mistakes.

Every player whose career doesn't pan out as expected in a college program will feel like they were misled during the recruting process.

Even your chosen handle demonstrates a certain lack of credibility, IMO.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 23, 2007, 07:50:50 PM
As for the league race this year, I have to agree that L&C and UPS should be the heavy favorites.  Their returning talent alone makes them so.

I think Lunt has much to prove now that he is the full time guy, however.

I look forward to seeing what Hayford has brought in.  I've heard rumors, but know nothing concrete about this incoming group.  Nothing in the local paper or on the Whitworth website yet in the way of a preview.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 23, 2007, 08:01:10 PM
Good point about Lunt Pinecone, Bridgeland left crazy expectations there.

Sounds and Logshow, any idea if Lunt is sticking with the "system", or is he going to do his own thing now that its officially his gig?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dumpdotes on October 23, 2007, 08:08:35 PM
Pine Cone Fan,
I agree with you to a certain extent. Because of the "relationship" I thought I had with this guy, I defended him to parents the first year my son was there. I once thought he was a great guy.  He charmed us right into thinking so. Last year in Tempe, the kids could have gone to an ASU Stanford game- all he had to do was sigh them up. He did not. Yet on the night they were supposed to have a Team dinner, he left them hanging while he went to a Suns game. Classy act that. I would expect a Linfield coach to afeect kids lves in a positve way. It's not just about winning and losing.  Trust me, this is not  a good guy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 24, 2007, 07:15:17 PM
Up on the NWC conference web page, looks like LC is the team, got all the first place votes.    


Lewis & Clark Unanimous Favorite For 2007-08 NWC Title

2007-08 Men's Basketball Coaches Pre-Season Poll:
School    (1st)    
Lewis & Clark (Ore.)    (9)    
Puget Sound (Wash.)         
Whitworth (Wash.)         
Pacific (Ore.)         
Pacific Lutheran (Wash.)         
Willamette (Ore.)         
George Fox (Ore.)         
Linfield (Ore.)         
Whitman (Wash.)         
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 25, 2007, 01:51:21 AM
This board sure got busy. I am going to have to start to check it more often.  NWCer, I hope you don't feel like Logs and I are trying to "corner the market"  I like when the board is active with discussion and lots of people are sharing, however that does tend to happen.

Next, I can understand Dumpdotes position, it is tough for any parent to watch their son get critized.  But that is the nature of the beast.  Coaches are your best friend when they recurit, but once you step on the floor you are all theirs...I have heard countless stories of coaches acting like fools and being vulgar and demeening.  I am not taking sides here, just saying this kind of thing happenes a lot more then you might expect.

Pinecone, you are right about Lunt having a lot to prove...and I think he is up to the challenge.  From what I have seen and heard about Lunt he is a very hard worker and expects the same from his team.  I am willing to bet he has a lot better grasp on things this year, and will have this year's UPS squad playing at a high level.  As far as changing things up...I can't see UPS not pressing with the athletes they have (it would be a waste of talent).  It still should be a highpowered offense, the only change I would make (in my humble opinion) would be to the zone offense.  Everyone zones UPS, and even the lady selling pop corn knows that UPS could utilize their talent better then just passing the ball around the primeter and trying to force drives.  This is probably a moot point though since Lunt has probably already addressed this issue with the team.

Lastly, It is good to hear from you SoundLogs!  I think I can, take that, hint...biggie smalls said it best...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 25, 2007, 01:52:18 AM
Quotein recent years they have seriously struggled to put talented guys on the floor.  And really there's no excuse for it.  They have some of the best sports facilities in the NWC and should be able to recruit players to match.  They have an awesome football team year in and year out, so why should BBall be any different?  

Change the words "Football" and "Basketball" and this quote suddenly turns into a puzzled Wildcat, questioning UPS's football program ;D

With practices just starting I don't know a whole lot about Whitworth (other than what was going on during open gyms).  But I will agree with everyone about LC and UPS being the top 2 teams.  However, I will not be one bit surprised to see Whitworth back in the conference tourney championship game.  The biggest loss was B Williams...while only 2 starters return, 1 was the leading scorer and will have to be double teamed (there is no 1 player in this league that will be able to stop symes).  They have a junior who was the GSL (Greater Spokane League) MVP...Adam Morrison got that honor a few years earlier, so he's in good company.  They have two incoming freshman that will fight for immediate playing time, one of which was the co-mvp of his league down in So.Cal...the other recipient was a 5 start Gonzaga commit.  Anyways, I think Whitworth has the talent, but the experience/leadership will most likely be their problem.  The great thing is they have two tourney's (Redlands, and Tourney of Heroes in NY) and some bad teams (CalTech and UC Santa Cruz) in order to get some good experience against stiff competition and to get some confidence by beating up on the Beavers and Banana Slugs.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 25, 2007, 02:45:18 AM
Logshow, meant that as a compliment, its cool that UPS has two strong supporters on the board.  Its my attempt to draw some more Boxer love to the board, any more out there ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 25, 2007, 05:26:25 PM
Only part of the coaches poll I find somewhat surprising is PLU...

I would have figured PLU to be down with Linfield and Whitman, rather than above Willamette and Fox.  I haven't seen anything out of the Lutes over the last couple of years that would indicate they could compete for a NWC tournament spot this season.

Any of the rest of you have insight on that?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 25, 2007, 07:27:24 PM
"Lastly, It is good to hear from you SoundLogs!  I think I can, take that, hint...biggie smalls said it best..."

Logshow-

Thats just awesome, you have no idea how happy that just made me, especially the Biggie part!!!  I'm glad to have you around, I can see we will get along nicely!  Can I be expecting to see you at some Logger home games?

Pinecone-

Good to see you back, I haven't heard anything in regards to PLU except for the coach change.  I was kind of wondering why they would be ranked that high in the coaches pole as well???  Maybe the new coach was able to get some solid transfers or something...who knows ???

NWCer-

From what I've heard Lunt is going to mainly stick to the UPS "system" with some tweaks to it.  I wouldn't be suprised if they play a little  more conservative because the NWC is figuring out how to handle the press better as the years pass by.  Sometimes the Loggers just end up giving up ways too many easy baskets, it would seem logical to pull the dogs off a little in order to give up less easy points.  They do have a very athletic team right now though, defensively they should be really solid in the press as long as they play hard.  I'm looking forward to seeing how much they are able to improve from last year with an older, more experienced team....Foster and Krauel are gonna be animals this year!!!    

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 25, 2007, 09:32:01 PM
NWCer, looks like you haven't been able to recruit any other boxer believers yet...wait till they win a few games, i bet there will be some that jump on board.

This years PLU team returns quite a few players, but not ready to make any noise yet.  There a small article on the PLU basketball website about some of their players, sounds like mostly hype.   I think they ended up being 5th kinda of by default.  They are definately not on the level of WW, LC, or UPS, and for that matter even Pacific.  They aren't even head and shoulders above the basement pack, they could honestly finish 5th or 8th.  My guess is the coaches flipped a coin between Fox and PLU. 

The talent gap in this conference seems to be widening...is anyone else with me on that one?

QuoteI wouldn't be suprised if they play a little  more conservative because the NWC is figuring out how to handle the press better as the years pass by
UPSoundLogs it is true every team has their own way to attack it...just had a crazy idea and want your opinion.  What if for like 10 maybe 15 mins a game the Logs played regular hard nose half court D?  It might sound crazy, but they are big, long, physical, and can move.  I think teams would have trouble scoring, and then have to adapt when the logs flip the pace back up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2007, 02:06:33 AM
Looks like everyone's roster is up on websites except Linfield, UPS, and Willamette, anybody have insight on the new names popping up on the other 6?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 30, 2007, 04:09:37 PM
Along those lines...

Rat, who is the likely canidate to take over the all important PG role?  He has some big shoes to fill
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2007, 05:11:06 PM
Logshow- 

"What if for like 10 maybe 15 mins a game the Logs played regular hard nose half court D?  It might sound crazy, but they are big, long, physical, and can move.  I think teams would have trouble scoring, and then have to adapt when the logs flip the pace back up."

I think that's a real good idea, or even take it one step further and change the pace so its almost equal full court press to half court defense(time wise).  If Puget Sound changed the pace every 5 minutes or so I think it would throw a lot of teams off.  Of course if one way or the other is creating a distinct advantage over a specific team they should stick with that for the game.  But i think that changing up the pace could be very beneficial to them .  Especially as more teams become accustomed to the 40 minutes of full court madness.  The Loggers really give up too many easy baskets sometimes, it would be nice to pull back into half court to stop the bleeding when another team is getting a bunch of layups. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fortyminuteshel on October 30, 2007, 08:17:03 PM
I agree with the need for the loggers to change things up defensively.  Attending just about every game for the last three years I,ve seen how teams have figured out how to beat the press.  I believe the strategy was to pressure a team so they would put up quick low percentage shots (or turnover).  Now teams are getting easy layups and usually two on one results against one of the smaller guards. Mixing things up would be a good idea and allow the guards to pressure the ball in half court.  This would also allow the bigs to defend under the basket more.

Should be an exciting year to watch the loggers with all five starters returning and a bench that should be much improved.  By the way, this is my first post but monitor the board often to get a feel of what's to come. I think your right on UPSoundlogs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 30, 2007, 11:22:40 PM
40mins...welcome to the board.  Always good to have a logger backer around, you must be a pretty avid fan.   Like the name!  I am going to guess you were a big fan of the Richardson's razorbacks?

NWCer were are the rest of your boxer believers?  Logger nation is growing!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2007, 11:49:41 PM
I don't know Logshow ???, I'm trying to recruit some.

Hopefully the Boxers can put some wins together this year and solidify themselves with the LC's, UPS's, and Whitworth's, but it'll be nice to find some true supporters before that happens.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2007, 12:43:47 AM
NWCer, i will give you a question you can answer.  What do you think about your Boxer's schedule??  Looks to me like Lowery is going to test them early...They will find out early if they have what it takes to win on the road.  Only 2 home games all of the non-conference schedule, tough schedule (IMO).  They do open up league play with a homestand...against the Loggers!! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 31, 2007, 12:44:18 AM
I don't know about a starting five yet.  Whitworth played in a tourney up in Canada this past weekend and did well...I'll try and find out who is stepping up and who isn't.  One nice thing about Whitworth (if the freshman and transfers play to their ability) is that they can match up well with just about anyone.  They can go big with Riley (6-5), Symes (6-5), Willemsen (6-6), Jurich (6-6), and Montgomery (6-7)...or they can go small with Beverly, Bruns, Stockton, and the other transfers who are guards.  Most likely you'll see a mix...but these line-ups are nice little wrinkles to throw at a team (much like UPS sitting in a half-court defense for a few posessions before going full court for a period of time).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 31, 2007, 01:37:22 AM
509 - I heard the Pirates just scheduled a bunch of games, rather than played in a tournament.  Seven or eight in three or four days of fall break.  Sheesh, thats a lot of minutes.  But I saw there were 16 guys on the roster, more than they've carried in a long time, so maybe Hayford is making some decisions about who he will carry into the regular season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 31, 2007, 02:04:53 AM
You're right Logshow, after your post I went and really checked out the Boxers schedule and they will be spending a lot of time on the road.  Maybe Lowery figured after last year they needed to improve as a team on the road and this is the way to take those steps.  You're also right about that opening conference homestand, that's a tough one right after new years.

Pineconefan and 509, it seems like Hayford is going to have the Pirates mighty again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2007, 03:01:08 AM
Pinecone, how did that work for WW, Isn't there a limit on the number of games or even scrimmages that a team does each year? If not that is a great way for them to get experience, which everyone outside of symes needs
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 31, 2007, 06:28:28 PM
40mins-

Good to have you on the board!  Between me, you , and Logshow we have quite the UPS following on this board already this year.  Especially since there's only about 8 posters around thus far.  I think I asked Logshow a while back but he must have missed it...can i expect to see either of you fellas(or ladies) at some home games this year?  I'm getting pretty excited to see what Lunt and Co. will bring to the court this season!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 31, 2007, 06:54:58 PM
LogShow,

Schools get an exemption for a foreign tour every three or four years.  I think UPS went to S. American three or four years ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 31, 2007, 09:10:18 PM
You are right Pineconefane, it wasn't a tourney.  I just called it that since they played 7 (i think) games in the same area of Canada...as for the roster, I think Hayford keeps it at 16 and hopes someone quits/greyshirts.  It can't hurt to have those numbers...they are limtied in travel numbers and having the kids suit up at home games doesn't cost a dime, so I don't see a downside. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 01, 2007, 12:08:04 AM
Ahhh I see. That makes so much more sense now, thanks Pinecone.  You are right UPS did go to Brazil last year.  I would have thought that WW would have went somewhere more exotic then Canada with the nice budget them have for the hoop team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 01, 2007, 12:25:42 AM
SoundLogs, you're right I did miss it, sorry bout that!  I will definately be attending some Logger home games this year...hopefully the majority of them.  The UPS schedule has the logs opening up against Corban and La Vern.  Won't say those games are cake walks, but I think it will be a different Logger team out there this year, more disciplined and mature.  I have heard a lot of good things coming out of the Logger camp this year.  I am excited to see them in action...its only a little over 2 weeks away, Nov 16th and 17th! Its about time, I have been waiting all year for hoops season to start up
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 01, 2007, 03:29:22 PM
It's great seeing my Boxers under the press releases on the front page, great for the conference as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 01, 2007, 08:00:50 PM
Thats great for Pac.  Saw in the release that Bartlett is out for the season...ouch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 01, 2007, 08:37:16 PM
Yeah Logshow, that is a tough blow.

With all do respect to the Logger contingency, how in the world are the Loggers ahead of LC in the top 25 poll?

Isn't it LC who were co-champs last year, beat UPS in 2 of 3 games, and are unanimous choices to repeat, according to the coaches poll?

I know UPS is loaded and return all five starters, who all got all league honors last year, I just checked out last years all NWC team and LC returns 4 all leaguers, including a first teamer, and two second teamers.

Just an observation, I guess it doesn't make that big a difference because they have to play the games....

Great to have two NWC teams in the polls never the less
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 01, 2007, 09:53:17 PM
Haha...you are probably right NWCer.  I was suprised myself when I saw that one, but i'll take it!!  I didn't even know if the Logs would be in the top 25 after last years end of season collapse.  Part of it might have to do with the fact of the Loggers dominance over the past 4 seasons.  The voters are just giving UPS some love like the do to all the east coast teams  :-X.  But as we all know polls don't mean much...especially preseason ones.  I also think it is interesting that Amherst is not #1, you got to give the defending champ some love till they lose right???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 01, 2007, 09:58:53 PM
Forgot to mention...you could count WW in there too, they are ranked 34th in you want to count the "other receiving votes"  thats 33% of the conference getting some love!  I think the NWC is going to make some noise on the national level this year...especially those Loggers.  Hopefully all three teams and maybe even Pacific will have big years this season...except when the Loggers come to town
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 01, 2007, 10:24:13 PM
Good points Logshow.

I didn't even notice Whitworth had received notes, I think that's great for the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 02, 2007, 02:16:37 PM
Wow!!!  That's great that the NWC is getting some pre-season recognition with 3 teams making the list.  Obviously, like Logshow has said...the poll means nothing until we actually see some wins, but I really think it says a lot that we have 3 teams getting national love!  We very rarely have 2 teams in the polls, let alone three!!!  I'm impressed.

As to the order of rankings(ie. UPS ranked higher than LC)...I wouldnt read into it too much.  One loss for a west coast team, unless they have been established in the rankings most of the year, means that they are immediately axed from the poll.  So it will be made clear who is supposed to be ranked higher or lower pretty quickly. 

And lastly...Bartett out for Pacific, well lets just say that's REALLY REALLY REALLY bad for them.  Sorry NWCer. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 02, 2007, 03:30:18 PM
It's definitely not good Sounds, about Bartlett  :( :'(...........

I was shocked, didn't hear about it until Bigfella posted the news a few weeks back.

I'm hoping with VanDomlen for a full year and with HarrisonDavis, along with this transfer guard from Clackamas that I've heard some alums saying is a real impact player, along with their other transfers, hopefully my Boxers can keep turning the corner..........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 02, 2007, 05:22:28 PM
By the way where is the Bigfella!??  Haven't heard anything out of him in weeks.  I would think he would be all over this board with the hype LC is getting
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 03, 2007, 10:38:56 PM
Rebuild or Reload? Whitworth Prepares for 2007-08 (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/07_08/Outlook.htm)

Here's the Pirates season outlook...gives some more insight other than what pineconefan or myself have been able to provide.  I think I'm just gonna stay on this board, the Linfield guys don't have anything to say over here and I like it that way.  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 04, 2007, 07:43:18 PM
Thanks for the link 509 -

We are kind of spoiled - going from last football season to last hoops season to this football season to this coming hoops season... I am pretty excited to see this team hit the floor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 06, 2007, 03:16:56 AM
Don't forget men's and women's soccer both making the national playoffs...and I'm sure the swim teams will continue to dominate the NWC.  Lot to be proud of as a Pirate fan right now!  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 06, 2007, 02:23:05 PM
No doubt WW has had a good start to the year.  But I don't know if I would say that the swim team dominates, maybe the men.  The UPS womens swim team has won 11 consecutive conference championships.  Add to that the UPS womens soccer has won 6 straight.  Now thats dominance over a conference.  And I thought UPS mens basketball run of 3 in a row was impressive, but not even close to either of those...just a little perspective.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 06, 2007, 04:05:06 PM
My bad on the Women's swimming logshow...but if we are gonna sit here and give each other perspective...while the UPS women's swim team has won the NWC crown the last several years and dominated in the conference championship meet setup...the Whitworth women have placed much higher at the national level the past few years...take 2007 for example, Whitworth finished top 15, UPS finished 46th.  I guess UPS has a deeper team, and Whitworth has better swimmers.

Back to basketball....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 06, 2007, 04:43:04 PM
"Back to basketball...." - Rat

Thank you for saying that.  I think we have discussed women's swimming far too long here, u guys are making me want to go throw on my speedo and do some laps  8)  I dont think that's a good sign on a men's basketball webpage :-\

Anyways....so did anybody watch dancing with the stars last night?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 06, 2007, 11:47:17 PM
Hahaha SoundLogs you are a funny guy...we might get along pretty well!  The UPS tip-off classic is in 10 days.  UPS has a pretty tough schedule but these first two games should be a pretty good warm up.  Hope the team is getting ready to roll.  I am sure Lunt will have them ready to roll come Nov. 16th.  SoundLogs you going to make it to opening weekend?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on November 12, 2007, 03:05:39 PM
Don't follow NWC men's hoops much but I read this NWC preview focusing on L&C in the Oregonian that I thought you all would enjoy:

Small College Preview Pioneers looking strong and motivated (http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports/119483970719350.xml&coll=7)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: hoopsknowall on November 12, 2007, 04:08:03 PM
wildcat11,

To my understanding, the Wildcats hosted a scrimmage last night.   Any word on how they looked?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 13, 2007, 01:17:54 AM
There are some interesting quotes from Gaillard in that story.  He sounds pretty confident.  But the best part is they aren't crowned yet, thats why we play the games :).  And nonconference starts this weekend for UPS.  I would expect LC to press some this year, would be interesting if they tried against UPS. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 13, 2007, 02:05:53 PM
I am so glad basketball season is finally here.  It will help move past the frustration of the football snub!

It will be interesting to see how L&C does at UOP this weekend.  Anyone know if that is official or an exhibition?

Heard the new Whitworth guys looked good in their exhibition last week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 13, 2007, 02:51:02 PM
Pinecone, I am not up to date on this football issue.  I looked briefly at the NWC football posts and then looked at the playoff bracket and saw WW wasn't in it? Does the conference champ not get a bid in football?????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on November 13, 2007, 09:17:07 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 13, 2007, 02:51:02 PM
Pinecone, I am not up to date on this football issue.  I looked briefly at the NWC football posts and then looked at the playoff bracket and saw WW wasn't in it? Does the conference champ not get a bid in football?????

No automatic bid until next year as conference didn't have enough teams until this year with Menlo.  There is a two year wait to get the AQ which means wait tell next year.  Whitworth deserved a bid but ended up on short end of the stick  >:(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 16, 2007, 12:30:45 AM
The logs open up tomorrow at home against Corban, and then La Verne on saturday.  Hoping to make one of the games.  It will be interesting to see what the 2007-2008 Loggers bring to the table.  I am expecting big things out of everyone, should be a great weekend!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 16, 2007, 01:53:34 PM
You going to either game Logshow?  I'll be there!  I've been talking to some of the guys and they all seem ready to go and very confident with how the team is playing and practicing so far.  I'm looking forward to seeing how they look early on.  As with every UPS team it may look kinda ugly at first as they get used to the pressing and fast pace of a real game, but if they can keep their turnovers down and dont allow too many easy baskets they should be in good shape! 

go loggers!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 16, 2007, 07:02:23 PM
SoundLogs, good to hear from you!  You're always good for a post on Fridays, its basically the weekend, or in the case of your profile quote, your lack of work makes everyday the weekend :)

As for the games this weekend...I am planning on being there, wouldn't want to miss the first chance to catch a glimpse of the 2008 Loggers!

From past experiences with opening weekend I am expecting the "real" logshow to mop up the court with these two teams.  Corben better be ready, I expect the logs to jump on them early on often.  Good point about UPS limiting their turnovers...that and rebounding seemed to bite them last year.

Finally a few pre-game predictions/Observation
1) Marsh will hit 5 three-pointers.  It is always fun to watch teams realize 5 mins into the game that he is lights out.  After he has hit 3 three-pointers in a row...
2) Corben getting into the bonus early due to reaches and sloppy D
3) Logs will force 30 TOs but how many will they have?
4) Loggers will score over 100 points...Um not that bold but I think everyone who plays will score.  Obviously resulting in a UPS win!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 17, 2007, 12:57:30 PM
SoundLogs can I get a run down of the game, what did you think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 18, 2007, 10:08:52 AM
Linfield came down to the SF Bay area and had a good start to the season. On Friday they beat NAIA Holy Names 81 - 79 on a buzzer beater. Last night they beat NAIA Cal State East Bay 81 - 73. The Cats point guard (#10 Cody Tesoro) looks a good ball player. He is very quick. I also see he is a transfer from Western Oregon. They are young (1 senior, 2 Juniors and the rest freshmen and sophomores), so it will be interesting to see how they do the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 18, 2007, 02:40:04 PM
Well it was a good weekend for the loggers!  Both games were over after 5mins in, everyone played well and if the team keeps getting better, could have a great year.  I was happily suprised how well the loggers shot the ball this weekend, hopefully that trend will continue.  Tough to tell much about this Logger team yet because they were hands down the superior team this weekend.  Its nice to build some confidence, but now its time to move on and get better.  The Logs have some challenging games coming up...starting with Northwest University on Tuesday and then heading to UW Stout over Thanksgiving.  This is going to be a fun season!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 18, 2007, 03:14:47 PM
Any Whitworth or Whitman folks headed south for Thanksgiving? Both teams play in a tournament at Cal Tech on Nov. 23-24. I will be at the games on Friday the 23rd.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 18, 2007, 04:08:32 PM
Um just looked at the NWC scores for the weekend...

1) Nothing too suprising, aside from Linfield opening on a strong note
2) Thought LC would have put up a better fight against UoP
3) NWCer can I get a run down on what happened this weekend????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 18, 2007, 08:52:07 PM
Logshow,

I was out at the grove on Saturday, Pacific has an influx of new players and they looked like they are still getting to know each other.  That point guard I've heard about, Maurice Ross, is the real deal, and VanDomlen still looks the same (even though he may be 30 ;).  One guy that was intriguing and looked good was Carson Bartlett, Ross Bartlett's little brother.  Northwest really hurt them down low and hit enough from outside to keep it balanced.  I didn't talk to anyone about what happened up at Evergreen the night before, but the box score from that game sure looked bad :-\........ 

Hopefully they can get it going by the time NWC play starts up, they sure have a tough schedule, hopefully that will get them ready......

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 18, 2007, 09:55:56 PM
QuoteNorthwest really hurt them down low and hit enough from outside to keep it balanced

what did you think about NW?  The Logs travel up to Kirkland on Tuesday to play them
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 18, 2007, 11:39:30 PM
Logshow,

I thought that NW was physically better than my Boxers, pretty quick and strong, their PG is a blur, he may be tough for UPS to press.  I just saw that they loss a close tough game against LC on Friday at LC, getting a split on the LC/Pacific trip is pretty solid I think, so I'm guessing it will be a 50/50 game when your Loggers face them.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 19, 2007, 01:07:59 PM
Well the Loggers won very easily this weekend.  I was impressed with the way they played, even if the competition wasn't very tough.  They looked under control for the most part, I haven't looked at the stats in depth, but just from watching the game they seemed to take care of the ball and rebound fairly well.  They also didnt give up too many easy baskets, which I thought would be a key to the game.

Foster, Marsh, and Williams all dominated.  Krauel played well but didnt get much PT, i was pretty confused as to why he didnt start.  I would hope that changes because he's certainly one of their best players.  Also, I'm sure the playing time will change as they face tougher competitioin, Lunt was able to get a lot of guys on the floor because they were ahead by so much.  Overall I think the Loggers are off to a good start and look much improved from last year. 

Tomorrow will be a good test, it looks like Northwest will be a good measuring stick early on in the season for how well the Loggers are playing.  I think we will know a lot more about how good UPS is by the way they handle tomorrows competition. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 19, 2007, 01:46:09 PM
For any Linfield lurkers or those that like tol ook at hoops pics, there are pictures of the Linfield - CSU East Bay posted: http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1951 (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1951)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 19, 2007, 11:42:28 PM
Thanks for the input NWC!

SoundLogs, I think Lunt has the luxury this year of having a lot of depth at the wing positions, so he is trying to utilize it.  Thats probably a good thing, especially for those bigs in the front of the press.  They look tired at times so why not bring in fresh reserves if you got them!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 21, 2007, 10:07:21 AM
It looks like Northwest college wasnt the tough pre-season test that I was hoping they would be.  The Loggers were able to beat them pretty easily.  It's nice to see Krauel have a great game off the bench, I've been looking for him to get some more playing time and he put his minutes to good use.  Williams has been playing great also, he's really upped his assists so far this season!  Im very impressed with how UPS has opened up their year, they are playing unselfishly, they are playing hard, and they are playing some pretty good D as well. 

Now they go on a trip out to Wisconsin to play in UW Stout's tourney, I'm thinking they will find the competition they have been looking for over there in the Midwest...those teams are very tough at the D3 level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 21, 2007, 11:17:04 AM
Sounds,

I wouldn't say that Northwest wasn't a tough test, I think they were, your Loggers are just good.......  Give your boys some credit :), that's a quality win.  As your website says, they were a final four team in NAIA last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 21, 2007, 01:03:32 PM
NWCer,

I actually thought the Loggers played great at Northwest!  I just thought the game would be closer because of how well Northwest played down at Pacific and LC.  I think UPS has the players/athletes to have a very special year.  If they continue to share the ball and play great defense as they have been thus far, they will be a MONSTER this season!!!  I cant wait to see the outcome of their game against the D2 school in Wisconsin and the game against UW Stout.  If they can beat the some of the big boys from the Midwest then I will know they are for real!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 21, 2007, 01:10:10 PM
I was pretty happy to see the Logs handle the NW.  That was a great win for the loggers!  NW might have been a final 4 team last year, but I think that they were hit hard by graduation.  If you look at their roster they are pretty young and have a lot of new faces (JC route).  Not to take anything away from what they accomplished last year, but I think it is a very different team this year.  But still a quality win for the logs!

Bring on Stout!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 24, 2007, 01:53:17 PM
Pretty quite on these boards right now with the Hliday weekend.  Logs have Bemidji St. tonight, or more like this afternoon.  I will be looking forward to the write up and hearing about the game.  Good luck logs!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 24, 2007, 01:59:56 PM
Just looked at the recent NWC scores on the conference website...

Whitman 67 at Cal Lutheran 72

Whitworth 53 at Chapman 56

Willamette 56 at Southern Oregon 47

Pretty suprising loss by WW.  Chalk it up a having a new team?  It doesn't get any easier for them.  They have a tough bounce back game against California Institute of Technology tonight, hopefully they can right the ship...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2007, 06:09:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 24, 2007, 01:59:56 PM
Pretty suprising loss by WW.  Chalk it up a having a new team?  It doesn't get any easier for them.  They have a tough bounce back game against California Institute of Technology tonight, hopefully they can right the ship...

I don't know your sense of humor, LogShow, so I sure hope that you were kidding with that last sentence.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 24, 2007, 06:31:40 PM
Whitworth and Chapman were pretty evenly matched. Neither team could effectively hit treys. They both sat back in zone defenses and pretty much said to the other team, "go head and shoot from outside." I was surprised neither team really tried to go inside to get the D to collapse and kick the ball back out. They both played a perimeter game. The Rats will destroy Cal Tech. They Beavers looked terrible last night.
Whitman did not impress me. They let CLU push them around in the first half and fell as far as 17 points behind. The Missionaries did make a valient comeback and played more agressive in the second half and even took a brief lead, but CLU had better athletes and sealed the deal late.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 25, 2007, 12:43:42 PM
QuoteI don't know your sense of humor, LogShow, so I sure hope that you were kidding with that last sentence.

Yeah that was said tongue in cheek, very dry humor.  I know Cal Tech is bad...but WW seems to find a way to fit them or UCSC on their schedule every year.  They must like those gimme games
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 25, 2007, 12:58:18 PM
Congrats to the Loggers on a great win!!!  From the looks of the box score UPS really mopped up Bemiji State.  That was even with Foster having a down game, and BS really limiting Marsh's attempts.  I was some what suprised that Marsh only got off four 3's.  Maybe they were blanketing him.  I am sure both will bounce back tonight against Stout!  I am hopping the Logs play well and come away with a victory...it would be huge for their program and this team.  Hopefully I can find the game on-line...GOOD LUCK!!!

ps. NWCer whats going on? I am still waiting for your boxers...any thoughts?  I know it's still early.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 25, 2007, 01:18:54 PM
Playing in the Northwest conference way over there, scheduling games against the SCIAC is a natural.  There aren't many other D3 teams over there.

Wow good is Whitman?  I see they lost to Cal. Lutheran...so, how good are they?  Point goes to Cal. Lutheran over New Year's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 25, 2007, 02:00:39 PM
Hey Logshow,

Not much happening, will make the trip out to Forest Grove Tuesday to see Pacific again.  I did see them against Northwest last weekend and it did look like a team that didn't know each other well.  I saw the write up from last night's game at Northwest Nazarene, that has to be a good sign, looked as if they were right there for the win with a D2.

I'll let you know what the Boxers look like tomorrow. 

Anybody out there see the Pioneers yet?, the write up from their game looked like a close one at Corban last night, a team UPS destroyed.

I don't know whats more frustrating to see, my Boxers at 0-3 or Linfield at 3-1 (with their only loss to Portland State)  ??? :-[ :-\ :'(, but like you said Logshow its early, and hopefully they'll be ready for that monster opening week of conference in January when they get LC and UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 25, 2007, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 25, 2007, 01:18:54 PM. . .
Wow good is Whitman?  I see they lost to Cal. Lutheran...so, how good are they?  Point goes to Cal. Lutheran over New Year's.
I wasn't overly impressed with Whitman on Friday, but I see they beat Santa Cruz Saturday. Whitman was disciplined, but not very athletic. CLU was an athletic team who liked to go up tempo and play very physical. They aren't tall so a taller team that slows the tempo and plays an inside game should win.  I see a that Chapman beat them on Saturday in a low scoring affair and probably did as I stated. I obviuosly haven't seen UWSP play, but they should not have trouble with CLU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 26, 2007, 10:12:15 AM
Well, I'm very impressed to see the Loggers come back from their Wisconsin trip with two wins!  I'm not sure how good UW Stout and BS are but two wins in the Midwest is two wins in the Midwest!  From the box scores it looked like everyone played pretty well especially Williams and Krauel.  It's really good to see Krauel putting up big numbers, even though he's coming off the bench.  He's a very good player. 

Very suprised to see WW lose to Chapman ??? :o ???  What is up with that???  It's very dissapointing  to see one of our supposed best out of the NWC lose to a cupcake like Chapman.  Does anyone have details on that game...I hope there's some kind of excuse, like maybe WW's starting five all sat out of the entire game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 26, 2007, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on November 26, 2007, 10:12:15 AM
. . .Very suprised to see WW lose to Chapman ??? :o ???  What is up with that???  It's very dissapointing  to see one of our supposed best out of the NWC lose to a cupcake like Chapman.  Does anyone have details on that game...I hope there's some kind of excuse, like maybe WW's starting five all sat out of the entire game.
I was at the game. Chapman is not that bad. They also beat Cal Lu. A parent told me WW had a couple of key injuries. But as I stated earlier, Chapman played a zone D and dared WW to shot from the outside, which WW didn't do well. They hit 1 trey on the night I believe. I was surprised the Rats didn't really try to penetrate to collapse the zone and then kick out and get shorter jump shots. They seemed content to move the ball around the perimeter. When the game got down to the time to foul, Chapman simply didn't miss their free throws.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 26, 2007, 02:08:27 PM
Cawcdad,

Thanks for the game details, upon further review I realized that you had already posted about the WW vs. Chapman game earlier, so sorry about making you do double time. 

It sounds like you're not real impressed with WW, I'm assuming they have taken a step back from last year then?  I've been hearing from the Bucs faithful that this years WW players are as good, if not better than last years players.  From an outsider (a non WW fan) what is your perspective?  Even if Chapman is "not that bad" I dont see last years WW squad losing to a team that is in the middle of the pack in the SCIAC(WW was darn good last year).  Maybe I'm just clueless and Chapman is a new west coast powerhouse...thats possible too I guess :-\.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 26, 2007, 02:38:05 PM
Not having seen WW last year I have no basis for comparison. Also not knowing the team, I do not know how key the injured players are. The parent I talked to seemed to think they are critical. So all I am going on is my perception from one game and that is that WW seemed content to play Chapman's game. Is that the same style for WW too? The Rats also pretty much stayed in a zone D forcing outside shots. Chapman hit their treys better than WW.

Is Chapman a new West Coast power? I do not think so, but they do play good defense. The day after the WW game they beat an athletic CLU team, that likes up tempo and physical play, in a low scoring affair. So Chapman obviously dictated the tempo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 26, 2007, 08:18:04 PM
The Loggers took a major step this weekend.  Congrats on a great road trip and tourney title.  Sounds like the team impressed a few people over in the mid-west.  The logs have this week to rest up and get better before they head down to Portland to take on Warner Pac...now that's gonna be a game!  Keep it rolling loggers!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 26, 2007, 09:31:38 PM
There are pictures up of last Friday's games at the Cal Tech Tournament:
Cal Lutheran vs. Whitman (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1959)
Chapman vs. Whitworth (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1958)
I apologize for the poor quality, but the gym was dark and I was fighting the light and my flash all afternoon.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2007, 02:40:11 AM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on November 26, 2007, 02:08:27 PMEven if Chapman is "not that bad" I dont see last years WW squad losing to a team that is in the middle of the pack in the SCIAC

Chapman isn't in the SCIAC. It's an independent.

Quote from: UPSoundLogs on November 26, 2007, 10:12:15 AM
Well, I'm very impressed to see the Loggers come back from their Wisconsin trip with two wins!  I'm not sure how good UW Stout and BS are but two wins in the Midwest is two wins in the Midwest!

UW-Stout (3-2) was picked in the SID's preseason poll to finish seventh in the nine-team WIAC in 2007-08. Last season the Blue Devils went 12-13, 5-11.

Bemidji State is 1-4 this season, with its other three losses all coming to D2 teams that beat the Beavers by around the same amount, more or less, that the Loggers beat them. Their win over Northland in the consolation game of the UW-Stout tourney isn't really anything to brag about. Last season the Beavers went 5-23.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 27, 2007, 10:57:05 AM
So you're telling me we played two of the worst teams in the midwest?  I thought beating a WIAC school on their home court in their tourney would be a good thing? :-\

I still think both were solid wins! And the pollsters seem to agree bumping UPS 7 spots to #12.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Drake Palmer on November 27, 2007, 12:35:32 PM
Don't let Mr. Sager rain on your parade.  I was one of the only posters who actually saw your beloved Loggers play this weekend & happened to post about them on the WIAC board & briefly on my home board – the MIAC.  Although UPS didn't exactly beat upper Midwest powerhouses, those were decent wins.  I've seen D2 Bemidji State play twice, along with UW-Stout, & UW-River Falls.  And pay careful attention to what Greg said – Bemidji State lost to other D2 colleges by similar scores to what UPS dropped on them. Last time I checked UPS is a D3 college.  ;)

One of the reasons why Stout was picked as low as they were (7th) was because no one knew about the talent level of the incoming transfers.  Stout is going to be a solid club in the WIAC.  They picked up a former D-1 scholarship player (University of Minnesota, & Univ. Idaho) who is going to be decent for them in 2G Miles Webb.  They also picked up a nice JC college transfer in Alex Mason who plays the point.  If Stout wouldn't have had Mason at PG, the UPS & Stout game could have really gotten out of hand.   This is one of the reasons why Bemidji State lost as badly as they did.  Their guards couldn't withstand the UPS full court pressure.

Both Stout transfers are Minnesota players which is why I'm familiar with them & their games.  Although I don't expect Stout to contend for a title in the tough WIAC, they'll be a tough out. 

UW-River Falls was picked by the WIAC Coaches to finish 6th in the WIAC this season. I realize I'm using the comparative scores & common opponents concept, (but what else do we have to work with in D3?  :D ) but the same Bemidji State that got clocked by UPS, drilled River Falls 80-61 in an exhibition game earlier this month.

Again I'll say I was quite impressed by UPS.  Obviously I've not seen all the MIAC teams yet this year, but what I saw from UPS on Saturday tells me they would definitely contend for our league title.  I've not seen as many quick players on one team in a long time.

Tell me a little bit about Lewis & Clark & why are they picked to finish ahead of the Loggers in league play?  I looked at their roster & while they don't seem to be a real tall team with a large post presence, aside from their 6-1 PG, they go 6-4, 6-4, 6-4, & 6-5.  They seem to be a taller, athletic team with good team quickness & good outside shooting?  One of the perceived weaknesses I see with your Logger team is that aside from Marsh, your outside shooting may be a bit streaky & a good zone might be your undoing.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 27, 2007, 02:15:26 PM
Drake,

Thank you for your break down of the UW-Stout tournament and your views on how UPS played. 

As for Lewis and Clark...unfortunately I haven't seen them play this year so I cant be too much help.  But I did see them last year (LC is very fun to watch), and they return most of the same impact players so I can give you a little rundown. 

Although they aren't tall, they play very physical and hit the boards very hard.  Especially Taboni and Rivera.  They have pretty good outside shooting from their guards and are able to get a lot of open outside shots because of Tillery who is their VERY quick point guard that can get into the lane with the best of them.  They get up and down the floor really well because all of their players are athletic and they dont have big guys to slow them down.  Their interior defense is suprisingly good for how short they are, I think its mostly due to how physical Rivera plays.  Although my guess is they would struggle inside if a team has forwards/posts that are 6-8 or 6-9...LC simply isnt tall enough. 

So far this year UPS and LC have played two of the same opponents and while I know it isn't the most accurate way to compare two teams, its the only means of comparison I have for you for this season. 

They both played Corban:    @UPS 124     Corban 95
                                             LC    77      @Corban 70

They both played Northwest:   UPS 97    @NW 82
                                                 @LC 75     NW  67

So that's the best I've got, hopefully it helped to answer your question. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 27, 2007, 04:13:30 PM
Drake thanks for giving the Loggers some love.  I am glad you enjoyed watching the team play! 

Looking at the stats Marsh did not have a good shooting game.  Last year I think he shot around 42% from 3, so I would take him over just about anyone else.  He can be a bit streaky at times, but he is actually a pretty complete player so I wouldn't mind seeing him put the ball on the floor after he misses a couple in a row.  On a side note who is your "home" team?

LC reminds me a lot of UPS in a way...its like their coach recruited to strictly match-up with UPS.  Like UPSoundlogs said they are athletic and quick, tough and physical, also they can really shoot the 3.

I think the main reason for LC being voted ahead of UPS was two fold...1) LC had a 2-1 advantage in head to head last year. 2) Coaches didn't feel like UPS deserved it based on losing 5 of their last 6 games to end the year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 27, 2007, 05:46:24 PM
Logshow-

1) Your right about Taylor Marsh, he's a very good player.  I think a lot of people only see him as a three point shooter, which is obviously his best skill, but he can do a lot more as well.  He also provides great leadership for the Loggers which is one of the biggest things they missed last year. 

2) I think LC being pre-season voted ahead of UPS in the NWC was for the reasons you mentioned in your post, as well as the fact that no one took into account how much the Logger's improved...they are MUCH MUCH better than last year. 

Also, I hate to bring this up again but I'm still trying to figure out how the heck WW dropped one to Chapman ???  La Verne even beat Chapman ???  I had a chance to see La Verne play when they came to play UPS a couple weeks ago and without sounding too heartless, I'll just say they were not impressive.  UPS beat them by 45 and the Logs put in their bench with about 7 to go.  I know I'm reading into this a little too much, but that's a really rough loss for the Bucs especially after hearing about how good they were supposed to be.  Is anyone else as disturbed by this as me?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Drake Palmer on November 27, 2007, 06:30:38 PM
You Logger fans have got a pretty quick PG in Antwan Williams yourself. He put up a few "oops, he's not really going to take that shot is he?" but successfuly hit a couple of them.  He also had some nice penetrate & dishes for either Krauel &  Foster.  On a team of nice talent, the other standout player for me was Robert Krauel. Cat had some crazy quicks around the basket which he used to his advantage against taller opponents. A buddy & I were commenting on the fact that seemingly the one go-to move the UPS coaches  must teach all their post players is the up & under. The move was made even more effective because of Krauel's speed.

It's interesting that many of these juniors & seniors were a key part of your run to the regional finals in 06 against Ill. Wesleyan. I'll be keeping tabs on your team this year. Good luck.

Logs - I don't really have a "home team" per se, but live in the St. Paul, MN area & over the years I've been directly & indirectly involved with various levels of youth/AAU basketball. So a number of these kids I've seen play at at an earlier age & it's fun to watch them play on a college level.  I usually watch most of the MIAC teams play at least twice, along with a handful of WIAC games & D2 schools.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 27, 2007, 07:31:24 PM
UPSoundlogs,

WW had a bad slip up, I am sure they will get better and be ready for league.  Now they did have a lot of hype, but that was all from their fans and or supporters...of course they are going to talk their team up even if deep down they know they have a ways to go.

I would have loved to see Hayford's reaction during and after that game, this year he doesn't have 4 studs to pull the team along.  I can just picture him pouting and whining on the sideline...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2007, 01:49:42 AM
Quote from: LogShow on November 27, 2007, 10:57:05 AM
So you're telling me we played two of the worst teams in the midwest?  I thought beating a WIAC school on their home court in their tourney would be a good thing? :-\

I didn't say anything of the sort. I simply gave you some of the pertinent information about the two teams (records, last season's records, preseason poll ranking, etc.), because you had said that you didn't know how good Bemidji State and UW-Stout were. I made no value judgments whatsoever. In fact, as Drake said I also went out of my way to point out that UPS beat Bemidji State by about the same margin that those other D2 teams had beaten the Beavers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 28, 2007, 02:00:27 AM
fair enough...let's hope the loggers make it back out the the midwest in march.  There will be no question then that the Logs will be playing the best teams in Wis & Ill.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2007, 02:08:54 AM
True dat!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 29, 2007, 12:28:40 AM
NWCer...Pac is finally on the board!!!

Was anyone at the Linfield Warner Pac game...it was actually so what close?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 29, 2007, 12:39:23 PM
WW is the only team that plays today.  They have Southwestern (Ariz.), hopefully they will fare better then they did against Chapman
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 30, 2007, 11:50:12 AM
QuoteWhitworth, which has already played a grueling nonconference game with Caltech, and has not one but two upcoming games with always powerful UC Santa Cruz, which so far is 1-4 with a win against Caltech

I had commented on this earlier.  I don't understand why WW why play such a soft schedule.  I know they are young and need confidence, but you just don't get better playing teams like Cal Tech, UC Santa Cruz and the like.  Kind of seems like a waste of games, the interesting part is that it hasn't been just this year.  I guess WW is just padding their West Region win record :-\.  Too bad their SOSI and quality wins will be next to nothing
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 30, 2007, 12:00:50 PM
Bob,

Have you had a chance to see Whitworth when they've been playing down in your neck of the woods?  From what I'm hearing from people and seeing in the box scores they aren't doing too well thus far.  They aren't exactly playing a grueling schedule(to put it lightly), as you've pointed out, and they still aren't playing well.  Any thoughts?

Logshow,

Will you be attending the Cal State Stanislaus game at UPS next weekend?  I hear they are a very tough D2 team, and I'm guessing that's about the best school UPS has coaxed  into coming to their gym in a while.  Between that game and Warner Pacific, the Loggers have some serious competition in the next 2 games.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on November 30, 2007, 12:34:23 PM
I saw WW play against Southwestern yesterday afternoon and don't let the final score fool you.  The game was a 5-point game until about 8 minutes to go when SW just ran out of gas.  WW can shoot the ball from the perimeter pretty well, but take that away and they may struggle.  Their interior play has moments of promise, but not consistent.  The difference in the Southwestern game yesterday was soley rebounding.  Southwestern just doesn't pursue boards so WW got many easy putbacks off the offensive glass.  Tonight will be a much better indicator of where WW fits into the mix.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 30, 2007, 01:16:38 PM
Sound,  I am planning on going to the Cal State game, should be a good one.  I am guessing that you will be there too!  These next few games will show a lot about what the loggers are bringing to the table this year.

It will be interesting to see how WW does against Pomona tonight...hopefully they can pull it together.  It is interesting to see Riley be the leading scorer...he is only a freshman, I wouldn't want to rely on a freshman to lead my team unless his name was Durant.

My real question is where has Symes been at?  He was first team last year, but he only had 10 and 9 boards against Southwest.  Things were probably easier last year with surrounded by lots of talent...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 30, 2007, 01:27:34 PM
Jordis -

You are a great example of why eye-witness testimony is often so ineffective in a courtroom setting.  If you check the box score (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Statistics/07-08/HTML/m3-swc.htm), you will see that SW had an early run in the second half to pull within 7, but then the Pirates never led by less than 10 points and led by 20+ with five minutes to play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 30, 2007, 01:30:02 PM
I haven't commented on the Pirates yet, simply because I have not had a chance to see them play in person yet. 

But I think tonight's game against Pomona will tell more than the season opener against Chapman.  I think the fact that Chapman was playing its third game when the Pirates were playing their first game had a big impact on the outcome.  Coaches are able to make huge adjustments after seeing their players in action against live opponents.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 30, 2007, 01:32:30 PM
I have to agree with Logshow, though, about Symes.  Much is expected of him this season and his performance so far has been disappointing.  I wonder if maybe he is one of the injured players CAWCDAD referred to being mention about by the parents.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 30, 2007, 01:36:53 PM
Logshow - I do have to take issue with your rip on Hayford, however.

"I would have loved to see Hayford's reaction during and after that game, this year he doesn't have 4 studs to pull the team along.  I can just picture him pouting and whining on the sideline..."

None of the coaches in the NWC make big money and none are getting rich from shoe contracts and coaches shows like their D1 counterparts.  I therefore don't think they need the same kind of abuse from opposing fans that D1 coaches have to take.

These guys are mostly here because they are committed to education, teaching the game, being a part of the institution.  Look at the long-time coaches (L&C, Willamette, Linfield, Whitman, GFU). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 30, 2007, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 30, 2007, 01:36:53 PM
Logshow - I do have to take issue with your rip on Hayford, however.

Pinecone,  I don't disagree with anything you said.  I am willing to bet that Hayford does lots of teaching about basketball and life, and nobody can argue that he doesn't take care of his guys (nice gear ect.)

The comment stemmed from the story a number of years ago when WW was down at Willamette and won (a povital game) at the very end.  He celebrated in the middle of the court pumping his fist and pointing at the crowd taunting them.  To me that is childish, and a poor example to set for the team.  That being said...everyone does deserve a second chance
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 30, 2007, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on November 30, 2007, 12:00:50 PM
. . .Will you be attending the Cal State Stanislaus game at UPS next weekend?  I hear they are a very tough D2 team, and I'm guessing that's about the best school UPS has coaxed  into coming to their gym in a while.  Between that game and Warner Pacific, the Loggers have some serious competition in the next 2 games.  
I saw CSU Stanislaus play on Wednesday. They beat a poor Chico team. Chico and Stanislaus are picked to finish 8 & 9 in their league. I was not impressed by the Warriors. They will bomb away from three point land. But they will get out of control when they run. Chico ran a better half court offense, just had trouble putting the ball in the hoop in the first half. Chico was down by about 17 at the half and was able to cut it to as close as 3 by playing hard nosed D in the second half. I was also amazed at how many errant passes there were from both teams. Many unforced. I didn't see that many in the Cal Tech-UCSC game. It would not surprise me one bit for UPS to beat Stanislaus.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 30, 2007, 04:07:51 PM
Cawcdad,

Thanks for the information, for some reason I was under the impression that Cal State had a very good squad.  I fully expect UPS to beat them, but I'm a little disappointed that they aren't supposed to be better than that.  Oh well, it'll still be fun to go to a game. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on November 30, 2007, 05:38:51 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 30, 2007, 01:27:34 PM
Jordis -

You are a great example of why eye-witness testimony is often so ineffective in a courtroom setting.  If you check the box score (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Statistics/07-08/HTML/m3-swc.htm), you will see that SW had an early run in the second half to pull within 7, but then the Pirates never led by less than 10 points and led by 20+ with five minutes to play.

Fair enough...the feel of the game watched versus the statistical data can sometimes be unparallel, but the fact that Southwestern had the game to even 10 points (and honestly should have been even less had they gone to the glass at all) with 9:25 to go is absolutely a testimony to the type of team that WW is...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 01, 2007, 12:36:36 AM
I concede...I don't care about what I saw on Thursday (and I didn't see this game), but any team that can put it on Coach K and Pomona Pitzer like that must have something going on...Congrats on a nice win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 01, 2007, 02:17:57 AM
Here's a link from the Whitworth website...
Whitworth Rolls Into Fulmer Final (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/07_08/PP.htm)

I think you can chalk up that first loss to chapman to the young guns getting a feel for the game...they shot horribly that particular game.  But a few good wins later (including a scrimmage against CS Stainslaus) and I think the Pirates are righting the ship, so to speak.  Big improvement in only a course of a couple of games, which should continue all the way through conference play as these guys get comfortable with each other on the court, and the young guys get a feel for the college game.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 01, 2007, 12:24:11 PM
(509)Rat, when and where was the scrimmage with Stanislaus? It's not on the schedule. I would have gone to watch had I known about it.

For the Logger faithful, Stanislaus's other win, besides Chico, was 81-61 over NAIA2 Dominican. They lost last night to UC San Diego.

correted a typo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 01, 2007, 01:42:44 PM
QuoteAgreed. Whitworth pounded the Sagehens, 73-45.
wow that is a reaming...on their home court too.  Looked like Symes got it going
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 01, 2007, 06:05:21 PM
sorry..meant at redlands
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 01, 2007, 10:43:44 PM
Here is the list of today's games


University of Great Falls at Whitman

Willamette at Whittier

Whitworth at Redlands (Redlands Tourney Championship game)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 02, 2007, 03:52:00 PM
sounds like WW was really clicking down south.  Guess their tune up against Cal Tech was just what they needed.

Good to see Willamette beat Whititer...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 03, 2007, 01:03:39 PM
good catch...I thought it said 70-77 on the NWC website, must have been fixed or misread it.  Thanks
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 03, 2007, 03:21:51 PM
It's nice to see WW winning some games.  They must have just had a lapse when they played Chapman.  Now the next step is to get them to play some more challenging non-conference opponents. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 03, 2007, 03:54:26 PM
SoundLogs,  Do do you think about the Logs upcoming game with Warner Pac?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 03, 2007, 05:08:09 PM
Logshow,

I was actually gonna ask you the very same thing.  From what I've seen in recent years Warner Pacific is a very good team and they are currently ranked number 3 nationally in NAIA 2.  However, I'm a little confused because  I went to their website and found that they got absolutely waxed by PLU, only beat linfield by 12, and beat NW christian by only 11.  So I'm not really sure what to think, I dont see how a team can lose to PLU by 30 and still have a top 3 ranking nationally ???.  

Anyways, I'm becoming quite confident in how the Loggers are playing this year so I'm guessing they will put the hurt on Warner Pac!!!  My prediction is Loggers 105 Warner Pac 85.  Go Logs!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 04, 2007, 01:50:05 AM
SoundLogs,  looks like I might as well wait on speculating about the game...the game might be canceled/postponed

http://www.ups.edu/x25352.xml
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2007, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 04, 2007, 01:50:05 AM
SoundLogs,  looks like I might as well wait on speculating about the game...the game might be canceled/postponed

http://www.ups.edu/x25352.xml

It has been postponed, either to Wednesday or next Monday (TBD tomorrow morning.)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 04, 2007, 01:32:07 PM
here is the pertinent info from the news release  on UPS's website

If the freeway is reopened by Wednesday morning, the Loggers and Knights may face off Wednesday night at 7:30 p.m. in Portland.  Should the freeway remain closed, UPS and WPC will meet on Monday evening at 7:30 p.m. in Portland.

guess we will just have to wait to see these teams faceoff :-\

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 05, 2007, 01:26:20 PM
SoundLogs,

I went to PLU's website and I don't think that they played Warner Pac this year.  Like what seems the case for some NAIA schools, the websites don't seem to be regularly updated.  I am liking OxyBob's confidence in the Logs, but I am a little more apprehensive about the game.  UPS has struggled against Warner Pac in the past two years losing both games.  I think the only other teams to beat UPS in two straight games in the past four years is UW-Stevens Point & Illinois Wesleyan.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 05, 2007, 01:52:41 PM
Logshow,

Hmmmmmm...yeah I cant find where I read that PLU played Warner Pac, that's wierd.  I must have miss read something I guess(or maybe my memory is just that bad), my mistake :-\.  You are right though, UPS has struggled against Warner Pac the last two years.  I still feel confident that we will get them this year, hopefully they reschedule the game for sometime soon. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 05, 2007, 02:02:37 PM
Ah, I found the article for PLU vs. Warner Pac....so i guess im not going crazy ;).  The only problem....it was the article from the women's game.  OOOOOPS!  haha!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 05, 2007, 03:26:37 PM
oh those minor details... :)

I still feel good about the game, I just don't want UPS to be overconfident...they still need to bring their "A-game"

BTW while I was looking around the PLU website I saw this...

LAST WEEK: PLU's game at Cascade College in Portland, scheduled for Tuesday, Nov. 27, was canceled because of an administrative error in scheduling game officials.

Thats amazing...did they just forget to schedule game officals??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on December 05, 2007, 04:10:34 PM
Logshow, I think LC got UPS two in a row at the end of last year.   By the way, I see UPS-Warner Pac is scheduled for Monday Night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 05, 2007, 04:39:49 PM
Logshow,  been away for a while, but yes, my Boxers are on the board!

Just hoping the officials shows up to their game at Cascade Saturday!!  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 05, 2007, 06:34:50 PM
Quote from: oldnwcer on December 05, 2007, 04:10:34 PM
Logshow, I think LC got UPS two in a row at the end of last year.   By the way, I see UPS-Warner Pac is scheduled for Monday Night.

You got me! I forgot about that one...good catch.

Glad the game got rescheduled...its a big one for the loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 05, 2007, 06:38:28 PM
Quote from: NWCer on December 05, 2007, 04:39:49 PM
Logshow,  been away for a while, but yes, my Boxers are on the board!

Just hoping the officials shows up to their game at Cascade Saturday!!  :D

NWCer welcome back!  I am sure Cascade is more then on top of it...probably checked and rechecked that officals were scheduled.  That just seems like a rediculous error.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 06, 2007, 02:40:12 PM
Greetings NWC posters!

Obviously by my name you see that I'm a long way from home. I've lived in Vancouver for the last few years and while I spend most of my "basketball time" following my Flying Dutchmen via the Internet and D3Hoops, I've been jonesing for a live game. So I've worked out a hall pass of sorts with my wife for the 25th of Jan. at Lewis and Clark. I'm really looking forward to two of the best in the NWC and DIII.

Caught the highlights last night of the L&C game against PSU... Good game, tough loss!

Anyway, maybe I'll catch some of you there!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 06, 2007, 05:06:31 PM
Log Show, I'm with you, I'm sure Cascade administrators are calling the officials every hour on the hour to make sure officials are there.  i know PLU had to be unhappy about that fiasco.

Your boys are playing some good ball it looks like, Warner Pac will be a great test, they've had their number the last few years.

LC's showing last night is great for the conference, Lowery has his work cut out getting Pac ready for that monster opening week of conference, LC and UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 06, 2007, 05:27:40 PM
NW Hope,

Yeah I think I'll be at that LC vs. UPS game on the 25th, I've been looking forward to their first matchup for quite some time.  I dont think you'll be dissapointed, it should be a great game.  The only problem is that the LC crowd leaves somthing to be desired....if you'd like to see a great game with a better atmosphere you should try to make the LC/UPS game in Tacoma, the Logger crowd is usually very good especially for big games.

NWCer,

OUCH!!!  The Boxers open with LC and UPS back to back?!?!  That's gonna be a rough way to start out the regular season.  Have fun with that :-*.

Great job to LC for putting up a solid fight against Portland St. it sounds like they even had a chance to win the game at the end!!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 06, 2007, 06:31:42 PM
Sounds,

It will be tons of fun  :D, hopefully ???

Had them back to back early on at home last year and swept them, hopefully they can find the magic again out at the grove.

Has that UPS/Warner Pac game been rescheduled, I want to try and get over to that one, should be entertaining.  Any LC faithful out there who were at the PSU game last night, sounded like fun, had to be good for the LC guys to run up and down on the Blazer's home floor, and play well, looks like they got everything out of the experience except the win, but at least it got the conference on the front page!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 06, 2007, 06:48:21 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 06, 2007, 05:27:40 PM
NW Hope,

Yeah I think I'll be at that LC vs. UPS game on the 25th, I've been looking forward to their first match up for quite some time.  I don't think you'll be disappointed, it should be a great game.  The only problem is that the LC crowd leaves something to be desired....if you'd like to see a great game with a better atmosphere you should try to make the LC/UPS game in Tacoma, the Logger crowd is usually very good especially for big games.


My wife and I have friends who went to UPS and I tried to get the husband to go to a game with me last year in Tacoma... just didn't work out.

Does LC just not have a lot of support??? I read that they cancelled football two seasons ago. What was that about?

It is hard having spent 18 years in Holland MI (Where Hope is) and being very involved with their athletics, and coming out here and not connecting with a college to see games at. The Hope fans are amazing and follow them everywhere. Several times in the 90's playing for DIII national championship in Salem, we had more fans than the other three teams combined... As a matter of fact, the next day Hope and arch rival Calvin will be playing and the Saturday game is nationally televised via satellite. I'll be at a party somewhere in Portland with 30-50 local Hope/Calvin alumni watching (and drinking beer  ;) ).

If I make the game I'll have a Hope sweatshirt on no doubt. I'll stay in touch, maybe we can meet up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 06, 2007, 11:46:29 PM
NW Hope fan,

Not quite sure what the deal is with the Pio fans...they have had some reall good teams, but the crowds have less then stellar.  Maybe this year with the high expectations turnout will be a bit better.  Having crowds that are into it makes it a great atmosphere.  It is more enjoyable to watch as a fan.  There have been some great crowds at UPS over the years, during conference/playoff games.

SoundLogs, you have been to a few UPS games of the years what are some of your memorable moments?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 08, 2007, 07:56:37 PM
UPS has Cal State Stanislas tonight at home.  I am a bit suprised that a D2 team would come play the Logs on their home court.  Should be interesting to see how the Logs handle this bigger athletic team.  UPS post players need to step up and have big games.  Should be a great one tonight!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 08, 2007, 08:09:03 PM
I think UPS will get a W tonight! The Warriors had trouble with Oxy at home last year and I don't think they are as good this year. Go get 'em Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 09, 2007, 01:14:48 AM
What did I tell you. ;D good job Loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 09, 2007, 11:06:31 AM
So what happened last night? Here is the entire blurb in our paper and it has me curioius.

QuotePuget Sound 121 - Stanislaus 101 at Tacoma, Wash. -- A physical nonconference games had its ugly moments, with 53 total fouls, including four technicals and one ejection. Heath Colvin led the Warriors (2-5) with 18 points.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 09, 2007, 02:44:22 PM
Here is a link to the write up from UPS http://www.ups.edu/x25622.xml

The Logs started hot and it was enough to hold off any attack from Stanislas.  Marsh hit his first four 3's Willimas added 3 of them and a couple more were tossed for 9 in the first half.  That along with going 20-21 from the freethrow line and Stanislas turning the ball over about 7 straight times...really allowed the Logs to separate.  I think that league got to 30 at one point.  The second half was kind of boring, both teams just couldn't stop fouling.  Stanislas had 3 of the 4 technicals...Krauel got tangled up under the basketball with Cardoso, they were jawing for a second then Cardoso flipped out and went after Krauel.  Both were giving T's and Cardoso was ejected...As Cardoso was escorted off the floor he pulled his jersey off and threw it.  It was a weird sequence of events...

Enough of that.  Overall the Loggers looked pretty good and I think they really showed up to play. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 09, 2007, 03:11:19 PM
Thank you LogShow. Sounded ugly. Congrats on the win. I looked at the box score and saw that one of my former students, Rod Stephens, got his first points of the season for Stanislaus.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 09, 2007, 05:07:19 PM
It was ugly, but it was a good win.  The Logs are now 2-0 against D2 this year.  Everyone for Stanislaus got alteast 5 mins of playing time.

cawcdad, you are a california guy right?  UPS will be down at Westmont in Santa Barbara after Christmas.  If thats your area at all you should check them out...they are a fun team to watch play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 09, 2007, 05:51:34 PM
Hello all,

I am new to the boards and just wanted to say hello. I am a senior at Lewis & Clark and an avid basketball fan. I have been reading the board for a while and finally decided to join as it seems nobody from LC is on here!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 09, 2007, 06:29:27 PM
LogShow, I'm in Central CA, so Santa Barbara is a bit of a ways to go. I will be at, and photograph, the L&C at UC Santa Cruz game on Dec. 22
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 09, 2007, 06:54:27 PM
Pio20 welcome to the board!

It will be nice to hear input from LC's perspective.  A few days ago the board was talking about LC's lack of crowds at games in recent years.  What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on December 09, 2007, 07:54:52 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on December 09, 2007, 05:51:34 PM
Hello all,

I am new to the boards and just wanted to say hello. I am a senior at Lewis & Clark and an avid basketball fan. I have been reading the board for a while and finally decided to join as it seems nobody from LC is on here!

Do you follow football also?  L&C guys are missing there. :(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 09, 2007, 10:23:54 PM
Wow!  Thanks for the update Bob.

To go through all that effort and then have a mental lapse...thats too bad.  Every player should know the time and situation, especially the ones playing.  I wondering if Lowery explicitly said "No Timeouts Left" in his last huddle
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 10, 2007, 12:16:27 AM
I agree that the crowds at games have been less than stellar in previous years. I see the reason for this being the mediocrity of the team. In fact, many of our sports teams are mired in mediocrity. I was the sports editor of the student newspaper last year and we did an article titled "LC Basketball: Resurrecting  LC Sports One Dribble at a Time?" And I think this was in fact true. With a winning team come the fans. Last year's crowds were awesome at the end of the year. Attendance grew as the season went on and we continued to win at home. I have photographic proof of a packed student section for the playoff game against UPS last season. So I think with success come the Pio fans. Even with success, there are very few avid fans of any sport here. Much of the student body is apathetic when it comes to sports. We have a reputation as a hippie school, and while I think this is changing, there are are a good amount of people here who I'm sure don't even know we have a basketball team. There are many that wanted football to be canceled in order to give more money to academics. That said, I think this year you will see even more fans come out than last year. I was one of only five LC fans to make the drive up to Whitworth last season to see the NWC championship. But there were large LC contigents that attended road games nearby. We made a great showing at the Rose Garden the other night, largely outnumbering the small Portland State crowd. We even have student section tees this season. So all signs point to an increased interest in basketball here. This of course, comes with winning. We established winning last season and if we keep going strong now, more and more fans will come out to the games. One thing I love about D3 basketball is you are cheering with fans you know for players you know. Sorry for the long long post, but as you can tell this is  something I have thought about before.  :)     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 10, 2007, 12:33:05 AM
Wow, that sucks for my Boxers, and I used to make fun of Chris Webber  :-[, that one has to hurt, you're right Logs, everyone needs to know the timeout situation.

At least the refs showed up :D

Oxy Bob -

my Boxers are coming down to play PomonaPitzer, Whittier, and La Sierra, any insight on those 3 this season?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 10, 2007, 09:32:59 AM
Bob, good to see you working on your alliteration? : ;D +k
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 10, 2007, 03:05:08 PM
I don't know if any of the readers of this board check out the daily dose link on the front page, but there is an interesting discussion ongoing about the Grinnell player breaking the game assist recording.  Interesting debate and worth checking out
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 10, 2007, 06:53:51 PM
First things first, The Loggers looked great in the first 10 minutes of the game against Cal St!!!  Fortunately that's all it took, they were up by about 30 after 10 minutes.  It was a complete shallacking, I was actually kind of dissapointed that it wasnt a closer game.  Once they got ahead by a big margin UPS put it on cruise control and the game got pretty ugly/boring.  I'm not complaining though, another big win in the books.  Williams looked great, as did Foster, Krauel, and Marsh.  This years team plays a much more hard nosed and confident brand of basketball, led by Krauel who is becoming a major enforcer(meaning he plays VERY physical).  I think that's a major reason why they are so much better this year.

Logshow-

I did get a chance to check out the "assist argument" on the front page.  In my opinion its pretty disturbing how much Grinnell caters to individual statistics...I liked how their coach spoke up to defend his team, but I still dont agree with their mindset.  I've never played against a team that runs "the system" but I think there's a major reason why nobody wants to play them, its not basketball :-\.  Obviously everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but just as the Grinnell team and coach have found out, you better be ready to face a lot of criticism when you put personal accolades above teamwork and sportsmanship. 

I'd like to know what some other people think about this topic?  I know what OB thinks about it...he had to live with years of the "traveling freak show" hahahahah :D ;D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 10, 2007, 07:04:19 PM
OxyBob,

Not to poke at a soft spot or bring up bad memories, but I don't fully understand exactly what "the system" entails.  Being that you had to watch it many times when OXY played Redlands, would you mind giving me a description?  I know that it involves a lot of threes and no defense, but how is the court set up?  I cant picture a team leaving two guys down at one end of the floor ???  How does that work ???  Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 10, 2007, 07:20:10 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 10, 2007, 07:04:19 PM
OxyBob,

Not to poke at a soft spot or bring up bad memories, but I don't fully understand exactly what "the system" entails.  Being that you had to watch it many times when OXY played Redlands, would you mind giving me a description?  I know that it involves a lot of threes and no defense, but how is the court set up?  I cant picture a team leaving two guys down at one end of the floor ???  How does that work ???  Thanks.

The "leaving two guys down at one end of the floor" business is not "the System" (although one could argue that, since Grinnell's coach David Arsenault invented "the System," anything he does is part of it by definition.)  I am no fan of "the System," but to my understanding it's inaccurate to say that there's no defense.  In a way it is predicated on defense.  The goal is to get the ball into the offense's hands as quickly as possible, which means they press hard in the backcourt (trying for the steal), and if the other team makes it to the timeline, the defense tries to encourage a quick shot (hence: lots of layups.)  That may not be the most accurate description, but luckily there's a whole thread on this subject HERE (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2871.0).

Of course I too look forward to reading OxyBob's comments on this subject, as on all subjects; also maybe Jordis Rocks, a poster who is or was associated with the Redlands program, I believe.  There's lots of variations on the System out there, but it can be presumed that Redlands' version was fairly close to the original, since their coach (Gary Smith) is now working for Arsenault at Grinnell.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 10, 2007, 07:30:01 PM
The idea behind Grinnell's system is take as many shots as possible and be sure that at least half of them come from behind the 3-point line.

The team averages 101 shots a game, compared with 65.5 shots a game taken by Arizona, the top-ranked team in Division I.

The system involves constant running, so Arseneault substitutes all five players at the first opportunity after 35 seconds of the game have elapsed.

Because players are in the game for only short periods, they're able to go all-out the whole time they're on the floor.

"The other team is usually playing seven guys," said Steve Wood, Grinnell's top scorer at 25.4 points a game. "After a while, they're not able to keep up with the pace."

By contrast, 13 Grinnell players are averaging more than 10 minutes a game.

Grinnell sends most of its players to rebound after a shot and will try to steal the other team's inbounds pass if the shot is made.

Trading 3s for twos

When the other team can break the press, it often leads to uncontested layups. Grinnell allows the easy shots so it can get the ball back quickly and take more 3-pointers. Trading 3-pointers for two-pointers usually works in Grinnell's favor.


http://www.4seasonsbasketball.com/01-Menu/04-Articles/CoachsScrapbook/TheSystem.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 10, 2007, 07:39:10 PM
Grinnell is rarely competitive against Top 25-caliber teams.  Here is the result of their last NCAA tournament game...

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2001/030101m.htm 

When they face a top team, the talent disparity at every position on the floor is huge, and no "system" is going to make up for that. 

If you can get the ball in-bounds against Grinnell and your guards are smart and don't panic, you'll end up with an uncontested layup.  IWU had just 14 turnovers in that '01 playoff game, simply because their guards played with composure.  And a good team is able to defend the perimeter against Grinnell -- IWU was bigger, stronger, and faster and held them to 13-52 from 3.

The System is very effective for Grinnell vs teams that are not as talented or equal in talent -- those teams usually panic and turn the ball over 30+ times, and then they don't have the ability to guard Grinnell's 3's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 10, 2007, 08:17:52 PM
While Grinnell does have the distinction of setting records for points and assists...my guess would be they are essentially being the worst team defensively too.  So I am sure their name is in the record book for undesirable records (most points given up in a game/season, lowest fg%, ect.)  Take the good with the bad.  Its like a player saying he led the nation in assists per game...but he doesn't mention that he also lead the nation in turnovers per game.

On a somewhat related sidenote, with Grinnell giving up all those uncontested layups you would think the other team would have a lot of assists.  How ironic would it be if the team they were playing managed to break the in game assist record.  You would think with all those possesions one of the opposing teams has a shot?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 10, 2007, 09:16:26 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 10, 2007, 08:17:52 PM
While Grinnell does have the distinction of setting records for points and assists...my guess would be they are essentially being the worst team defensively too.  So I am sure their name is in the record book for undesirable records (most points given up in a game/season, lowest fg%, ect.)  Take the good with the bad.  Its like a player saying he led the nation in assists per game...but he doesn't mention that he also lead the nation in turnovers per game.

On a somewhat related sidenote, with Grinnell giving up all those uncontested layups you would think the other team would have a lot of assists.  How ironic would it be if the team they were playing managed to break the in game assist record.  You would think with all those possesions one of the opposing teams has a shot?

Average opponent assists per game for the last 3 completed seasons...

2006-07: 26
2005-06: 30
2004-05: 27

Cumulative opponent FG%:

2006-07: .629
2005-06: .615
2004-05: .663

Points allowed per game:

2006-07: 104
2005-06: 113
2004-05: 112

http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/statistics/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 10, 2007, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 10, 2007, 07:20:10 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 10, 2007, 07:04:19 PM
OxyBob,

Not to poke at a soft spot or bring up bad memories, but I don't fully understand exactly what "the system" entails.  Being that you had to watch it many times when OXY played Redlands, would you mind giving me a description?  I know that it involves a lot of threes and no defense, but how is the court set up?  I cant picture a team leaving two guys down at one end of the floor ???  How does that work ???  Thanks.

The "leaving two guys down at one end of the floor" business is not "the System" (although one could argue that, since Grinnell's coach David Arsenault invented "the System," anything he does is part of it by definition.)  I am no fan of "the System," but to my understanding it's inaccurate to say that there's no defense.  In a way it is predicated on defense.  The goal is to get the ball into the offense's hands as quickly as possible, which means they press hard in the backcourt (trying for the steal), and if the other team makes it to the timeline, the defense tries to encourage a quick shot (hence: lots of layups.)  That may not be the most accurate description, but luckily there's a whole thread on this subject HERE (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2871.0).

Of course I too look forward to reading OxyBob's comments on this subject, as on all subjects; also maybe Jordis Rocks, a poster who is or was associated with the Redlands program, I believe.  There's lots of variations on the System out there, but it can be presumed that Redlands' version was fairly close to the original, since their coach (Gary Smith) is now working for Arsenault at Grinnell.

David, I think you just about hit it...besides, to monopolize this thread with System stuff would not be much fun for those who visit here.  But, please Bob, don't let that keep you from waxing poetic about the 'Traveling Freak Show'.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 10, 2007, 11:34:42 PM
I don't mind...there isn't much else to talk about right now.  NWC teams are idle for a few days atleast.  Besides, I have read quite a few of Bob's posts and enjoy them, he usually has a pretty quick wit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on December 11, 2007, 05:32:50 PM
   This is in response to the discussion on Crowds and crowd size at games.

    I'm not sure what the other Colleges do, but at Linfield, starting today, the students are on Christmas break. They come back the first of January for what is called Jan-term. A student can take 1 class for 5 weeks and get a full 3-5 credits. Most take a hard class so as to only study for 1 subject.

   I bring this up because many, not all, but many take a class that may travel over seas, or just not take a class at all, which means empty stands for 5 weeks.

   Any one else have the same problem?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2007, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Tuxguy on December 11, 2007, 05:32:50 PM
   This is in response to the discussion on Crowds and crowd size at games.

    I'm not sure what the other Colleges do, but at Linfield, starting today, the students are on Christmas break. They come back the first of January for what is called Jan-term. A student can take 1 class for 5 weeks and get a full 3-5 credits. Most take a hard class so as to only study for 1 subject.

   I bring this up because many, not all, but many take a class that may travel over seas, or just not take a class at all, which means empty stands for 5 weeks.

   Any one else have the same problem?

CCIW member Carthage has the same calendar (Carthage calls its intermediate academic period "J-term"), which means that the Red Men typically have a dip in their attendance during January as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 11, 2007, 09:28:43 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 11, 2007, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on December 10, 2007, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 10, 2007, 07:20:10 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on December 10, 2007, 07:04:19 PM
Not to poke at a soft spot or bring up bad memories, but I don't fully understand exactly what "the system" entails.  Being that you had to watch it many times when OXY played Redlands, would you mind giving me a description?
The goal is to get the ball into the offense's hands as quickly as possible, which means they press hard in the backcourt (trying for the steal), and if the other team makes it to the timeline, the defense tries to encourage a quick shot (hence: lots of layups.)
David, I think you just about hit it...besides, to monopolize this thread with System stuff would not be much fun for those who visit here.  But, please Bob, don't let that keep you from waxing poetic about the 'Traveling Freak Show'.

Jordis Rocks is the real expert on the intricacies of System ball. My dislike of it comes from watching Redlands players cross midcourt and chuck 40-footers at the basket. Sometimes they even hit the backboard. I also didn't care for the Traveling Freak Show because it didn't result in wins. Last season Redlands was 10-4 in the SCIAC and finished tied for 2nd. That was the Bulldogs' first winning conference record since 1991-1992. Between 1991 and 2007, Redlands finished as high as 4th in the SCIAC only once. Sure Redlands scored a lot, but as a winning formula the System always seemed pointless to me, irony intended.

OxyBob

OB,

Actually, Bob failed to mention the success Redlands typically had against Oxy...he still has nightmares of Mr. Mazarei...nonetheless, Bob is right about the UofR success in league play...but he didn't mention that most of those years were using a more conventional style of play, not the system.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 11, 2007, 10:39:17 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 11, 2007, 09:50:33 PM

I will never forget the game where Mazarei dropped 57 on Oxy while being double- and triple-teamed. Simply amazing. Thankfully I won't have to see this anymore:


Any given night when you are running the system.  If a guy gets up 25 3's he is bound to make a few.  Sure would be nice to be a designated shooter.  I wonder how the designated rebounder felt...probably left out.  He has no chance to get any defensively, there should be a quite a few on the offensive end.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 11, 2007, 10:45:18 PM
To add to the last post...Bob I am sure that the Oxy posts were licking their chops everytime they played Redlands.  Let the guards do the hard work and break the press, while they hangout and drop in easy buckets.  The posts biggest concern was whether or not they blow a layup.  I always wondered what happened on that one mistake that left them 23/24.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 12, 2007, 03:42:35 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2007, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Tuxguy on December 11, 2007, 05:32:50 PM
   This is in response to the discussion on Crowds and crowd size at games.

    I'm not sure what the other Colleges do, but at Linfield, starting today, the students are on Christmas break. They come back the first of January for what is called Jan-term. A student can take 1 class for 5 weeks and get a full 3-5 credits. Most take a hard class so as to only study for 1 subject.

   I bring this up because many, not all, but many take a class that may travel over seas, or just not take a class at all, which means empty stands for 5 weeks.

   Any one else have the same problem?

CCIW member Carthage has the same calendar (Carthage calls its intermediate academic period "J-term"), which means that the Red Men typically have a dip in their attendance during January as well.

Our winter break is from December 19-January 22. The Pios will play ten games in that span, but only two at home, one of which is our first conference home game! I'm guessing the crowd will consist of a few parents at the most. I'm guessing the situation is similar with other NWC teams. I'm disappointed I'll be missing the start of conference play but three days after we get back is the big matchup with UPS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 12, 2007, 01:09:36 PM
QuoteI'm disappointed I'll be missing the start of conference play but three days after we get back is the big matchup with UPS!

The logs are looking forward to that one...its been a long 9 months
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 13, 2007, 06:28:32 PM
Whitworth has Jan-term as well.  While there are overseas class opportunities and they fill up, it isn't significant enough to see a drop in attendance at a Pirates b-ball game.  Plus, Jan-term tuition is built into your fall semester tuition so most kids come back to campus, take their class, and get the credit that they are paying for.  Pretty pointless to throw a few grand at the University because you're too lazy to come take a class.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 14, 2007, 06:43:24 PM
That's interesting, seems most of the schools have a "j-term" inbetween semesters.  UPS doesn't have anything like that.  Its too bad, I bet most students would take advantage of that.  UPS usually has a bit of a dip in attendence during the break, but it seems that quite a bit of the community comes out to the games so the gym is by no means empty.  Just the student section is thinner (but thats where most of the rowdiness is).

Conference play starts 3 weeks from today!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 15, 2007, 03:28:03 PM
Well the Logs have/will be idle for some time still, so have been checking out how the other NWC teams are doing.  Here are the results for the past few days...

Dec. 13
Pacific (Ore.) 63 at Multnomah 68

Dec. 14
Corban College 82 at Whitman 73

the Whitman game doesn't suprise me, typical Whitman, lose to a team that is most likely inferior.  I guess Corban gave LC a tough game but the Whitman had them at home in Walla Walla.

Now what to say about Pacific...I am not going to make this a derogatory post, but to be quite honesty it would be tough to put any positive spin on it, so I will keep it brief.  Granted to game was at Multnomah, but wow.  That is flat out an embarassing loss, Pac now sits at 1-5.  And what is disappointing to me is that the NWC looks because of it.  Pac is hands down the biggest disappointment in the first half of the season.  Not everyone can handle pressure/expectations.

They have a chance to bounce back tonight against Pomona, who seems to be in quite a funk themselves.  NWCer are you still with it, or ready to give up hope?  I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that game, and the direction of the program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 18, 2007, 05:53:36 PM
Tonight's NWC game

Dec. 18
Pacific (Ore.) at La Sierra

Come on Pacific you got to win this one!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 19, 2007, 09:04:40 PM
Log Show, I'm here, but am in shock.........

Was away for a while and detached from the world electronically for almost a week, just jumping on to get caught up on the posts and the scores, had no idea about the loss to Multnomah Bible, all I can say is WOW, you weren't being derogatory - embarrassing and dissapointing, are good and very accurate words.

As far as the direction of the program, Lowry has done good things for my Boxers, so I'm still confident my Boxers have the right guy, just didn't expect this to start the season, once again - dissapointing fits well here.

I've seen their two home games, as I said after the Northwest game, it seems like they had better talent than in the past, but a lot of new guys who just didn't look comfortable, the second game I saw against Northwest Christian, again my Boxers displayed some solid talent and played pretty well, but once again a lot is depending on a couple of the transfers.  Hopefully they can do whatever it is that teams do to come together and be up for a run at making it a decent conference season.

Quote from: LogShow on December 18, 2007, 05:53:36 PM
Tonight's NWC game

Dec. 18
Pacific (Ore.) at La Sierra

Come on Pacific you got to win this one!

At least they got this one, maybe your plea worked!!

With the exception of Willamette, seems like everyone else is playing pretty well, going to be a tough go around through conference it seems.

Happy Holidays!!

NWCer
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 20, 2007, 03:20:28 AM
Good to hear from you NWCer! Glad they beat La Sierra, especially for the NWC's sake. Not to long and the Logs will be stopping in at Forest Grove :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 21, 2007, 02:38:28 AM
Dec. 20
Whitworth 85 at UC Santa Cruz 33


Why, what is the point? It just seems like a waste of a game.  How does WW possible benefit?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2007, 02:57:51 AM
It's a regional win. Other than that, there's not much of a benefit to playing UCSC at all.

Unfortunately, my alma mater has the onerous task of facing the hapless Banana Slugs a week from Saturday in a classic-format tourney down in the Bay Area.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 21, 2007, 04:10:26 AM
From the WW website: "The Ameriprise Classic will conclude on Saturday when UCSC takes on Lewis & Clark College at 1:00 p.m. The classic was shortened to two games after Golden State Baptist College pulled out of the event in early December." I didn't know you could have "classics" in which two games are played. Does anyone know anything about this tournament? How long it's been going on? Why it only has two games? According to a Pio player I talked to it is "a weak tournament being played at a high school." Should be interesting to see if LC beats up on the Slugs as badly as WW did.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2007, 08:05:28 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on December 21, 2007, 04:10:26 AMShould be interesting to see if LC beats up on the Slugs as badly as WW did.

Don't put too much stock in comparative scores if both games against UC-Santa Cruz turn out to be huge blowouts, Pio20. When a team is as bad as the Banana Slugs, it tends to lose games to decent teams by such massive margins that the margins themselves lose meaning. F'rinstance, if Lewis & Clark beats UCSC by, say, 42 points on the heels of Whitworth beating UCSC by 52, it will mean absolutely nothing in terms of whether or not Whitworth appears to be stronger than L&C. Same thing if the Pioneers beat the Slugs by 57 points, as compared to Whitworth's 52. Once you get to a certain point with regard to scoring margin -- somewhere in the 30s, usually -- it all becomes meaningless, since it comes down to such trivialities as the skill level of the decent team's third-stringers, the willingness of the bad team to foul late in the game, the desire of the refs to let things slide a bit and thereby end the suffering quicker, etc.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 21, 2007, 09:57:58 AM
I'm going to the L&C-UCSC game Saturday. My understanding is the tournament is actually hosted by Whitworth each year in the bay area. UCSC's gym is being renovated and they play all of their games on the road this year. And yes the Banana Slugs are bad, their only win is over Cal Tech.

Gregory, I will also be attending the tournament you mentioned. It is at Cal State East Bay, an NAIA-2 team, that isn't much better than the Slugs. I saw them lose to Linfield in November.

UCSC-Cal Tech pics (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1960)
Linfield - CSU East Bay pics (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1951)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 21, 2007, 01:32:07 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 21, 2007, 11:47:19 AM
Quote from: LogShow on December 21, 2007, 02:38:28 AM
Whitworth 85 at UC Santa Cruz 33

Why, what is the point? It just seems like a waste of a game.  How does WW possible benefit?

Whitworth wanted to get an advance look at UC Santa Cruz before they play them again on Jan. 27.

OxyBob

Thats a pretty good one Bob.  Once again I will have to question WW scheduling motives...besides in region wins, how can those games possibly prepare your team for conference wins?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 21, 2007, 01:42:38 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on December 21, 2007, 04:10:26 AM
From the WW website: "The Ameriprise Classic will conclude on Saturday when UCSC takes on Lewis & Clark College at 1:00 p.m. The classic was shortened to two games after Golden State Baptist College pulled out of the event in early December." I didn't know you could have "classics" in which two games are played. Does anyone know anything about this tournament? How long it's been going on? Why it only has two games? According to a Pio player I talked to it is "a weak tournament being played at a high school." Should be interesting to see if LC beats up on the Slugs as badly as WW did.

I think classics are usually made up of 4 teams and play 2 games in a nontournament format (matchups are predetermined).  I am sure that LC will probably will win big...hopefully the reserves will get around 20mins of PT
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pioneer Hoops Fan on December 21, 2007, 05:27:59 PM
My UW-Platteville Pioneers face George Fox in San Diego next weekend, just wondering what they can expect, and what I expect to hear on the radio from the Bruins when they face them?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 21, 2007, 09:16:23 PM
Quote from: Pioneer Hoops Fan on December 21, 2007, 05:27:59 PM
My UW-Platteville Pioneers face George Fox in San Diego next weekend, just wondering what they can expect, and what I expect to hear on the radio from the Bruins when they face them?


I guess I will try to answer this as best I can, as there really aren't any G Fox posters on this board.
To me it seems that G Fox has been up and down this year.  They recently played Saint Martins (D2) pretty close.  They have a really quick and heady PG in Saturn, good at getting by his man and creating a numbers situation.  I believe their second best player Struts tore his ACL, so he is out.  The rest of the team are all pretty much role players.  Nobody will straight up destroy you, really seems like a team effort.  Solid team though...

As for the radio guys, if it is the same guys that did the games last year for G Fox, then they should be adequet, and do a good job.  I think they were a couple of students at the college.  Of course there is always favoritism for  the home team, but I felt like they did a good job of calling the game and keeping you informed to whats going on.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 22, 2007, 07:55:21 PM
The Pios poured salt on the Slugs 113-65. UCSC stayed close and even had the lead a few times during the first 10 minutes as L&C looked rusty and the Slugs hit several treys. Once the Pios got loosened up it was off to the races and no contest. Wish I could see L&C v. UPS. That should be a great game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 22, 2007, 11:28:01 PM
Quote from: cawcdad on December 22, 2007, 07:55:21 PM
The Pios poured salt on the Slugs 113-65. UCSC stayed close and even had the lead a few times during the first 10 minutes as L&C looked rusty and the Slugs hit several treys. Once the Pios got loosened up it was off to the races and no contest. Wish I could see L&C v. UPS. That should be a great game.

The Pios have been inconsistent so far this year. Even in this game, they shot poorly from the 3-point line in the first half, which could be due to the long layoff, but they have struggled to shoot consistently from three point land all season. The team's shooting ace, David Berggren has yet to find his stroke. They have also struggled to get to the free throw line this season, but suprisingly got to the free throw line a ton in this game. Transfer Tyson Papenfuss once again led the team in scoring. His post game is phenomenal and he brings a much needed inside element to a team that is notorious for jacking up threes in record numbers. Only problem so far this year is that we have struggled to consistently hit the three ball. We have done enough to win the games we should, but as far as I can tell, have not been nearly as impressive as UPS. Looking at the stats, I see UPS has had no trouble with the three ball. Hopefully by the time that game rolls around we will be shooting at a better clip. Hopefully the first few conference games will help us settle down and play consistently all game. LogShow, how are the UPS post players? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 23, 2007, 02:36:36 PM
UPS posts are very solid and much improved from last year.  One great thing about UPS is that they don't have to rely on the 3-pointer this year.  UPS is very versitle, They can put line-ups out there of 2 guards and everyone else is 6-5 and taller, and most of the reserves have good height too.  I wouldn't can UPS posts traditional, and none of them really play with their back to the basket...they are very athletic though.  Jason Foster, is has really gotten better since is freshman year.  He has been trying to dunk on everyone this year, I love that aggressiveness.  I would however like to see him develop a few more post moves, bc at times they are predicable.  Krauel is a beast and can really bang, he might be the best low post finisher on the team.  Then there is Austin Boyce, and Kevin Wright.  Both have tons of potential, great at rebounding and scoring.  Lunt is pretty lucky to have such versatility.  UPS is known for great guards, but don't look past their posts
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 23, 2007, 02:47:53 PM
Here is the nonconference standings heading into Christmas...


  Conference  Overall
Puget Sound       6-0
Whitworth           5-1
Lewis & Clark      4-2
Linfield                4-2
Pacific Lutheran  3-2
George Fox         3-3
Whitman             3-4
Pacific (Ore.)       2-7
Willamette          2-7
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 27, 2007, 01:49:06 AM
Well time for the NWC teams to get fired back up after the Christmas break.  Most teams are back in action this week/weekend...a few last tune up before conference play starts up
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 27, 2007, 10:22:57 PM
The Pios head to Phoenix for the Grand Canyon Tournament. They take on Villa Julie and Westminster, two teams from back east that I've never heard of. Villa Julie was 20-8 last season and is 2-7 this season. Westminster was 18-9 last season and is now 2-8. Sounds like they are both going through some rebuilding.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on December 28, 2007, 12:51:15 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on December 27, 2007, 10:22:57 PM
The Pios head to Phoenix for the Grand Canyon Tournament. They take on Villa Julie and Westminster, two teams from back east that I've never heard of. Villa Julie was 20-8 last season and is 2-7 this season. Westminster was 18-9 last season and is now 2-8. Sounds like they are both going through some rebuilding.


Figure I could give Pios20 some help in representing LC on here. I don't know anything about this weekend's opponents, but if we could beat up on some east coast D3 teams it should give more respect for the NWC. Anything that could give the NWC a chance for 2 teams in the NCAAs this year would be nice.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 28, 2007, 10:16:54 PM
Lewis and Clark Faithful,

I'm sure your boys will beat up on those teams, was just looking at 'em, and the team they're playing tonight, Villa Julie, lost to Gallaudet, the same Gallaudet who has one win on the season, and the same Gallaudet who loss to Cal Tech last week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 29, 2007, 01:18:40 AM
NWCer is right, L&C should have little trouble in Phoenix.

Whitworth has actually headed back east this weekend and the Pirates are likely to get their first real tests in several weeks.  Richard Stockton has an identical 5-1 record as Whitworth.  The other half of the bracket includes host Staten Island and Bridgewater St.

I wonder if any of the DIIIhoops folks will take in the opportunity to see an NWC team play on the east coast?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 29, 2007, 05:16:11 PM
The Pios sure did beat up on Villa Julie, 111-63. No stats up yet but Mark Robinowitz led the Pios in scoring, most likely hitting a good percentage of his threes of the bench as he has done all season. The Pios take on Westminster tonight. I was looking at the top 25 yesterday and noticed the Pios were the only team in the poll one game over .500. Every other team was at least two games above .500. This is obviously due to the fact that our two losses are against DI teams but regardless I found it interesting. It seems to me that if we didn't start the season in the top 25 then the voters would have a hard time voting a 3-2 team into the polls. By the same reasoning, what if we had just played DIII teams and were 5-0? Where would be in the polls now? Obviously the past is the past and national ranking is the least of any team's worries, but just doing some speculating. Anyway, I guess it doesn't matter anymore since we are now 5-2 and hopefully 6-2 after tonight! Logshow do you see your Loggers coming into the January 25th game against LC still undefeated? If LC won out until then as well it would be a matchup of a 12-2 Pios team and a 14-0 Loggers squad. Wouldn't that be something? Both teams still have Whitworth on the schedule before their meeting on the 25th. The Pios travel to Spokane on the 11th and try to avenge their season-ending loss there last year. I don't know enough about the other NWC teams to know if any of them pose a major threat to LC or UPS.     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fcnews on December 29, 2007, 05:59:45 PM
Congrats to the PSU squad on remaining undefeated. Keep it rolling. You have one fan watching from the midwest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fcnews on December 29, 2007, 11:48:11 PM
Puget and Westmont tied at 47 w/ 14 mins. to play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on December 29, 2007, 11:55:54 PM
Loggers in a fight...  if interested, here's where you can listen and watch stats...


http://www.newspress.com/Top/sbnp_radio/radio.html (Westmont Radio)

http://www.westmont.edu/ftp/ronsmith/MBasket/2007/071229b/xlive.htm (Live Stats)

Puget Sound 52, Westmont 51 - 10 Mins to go
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 30, 2007, 01:27:41 AM
The Pios closed out the Grand Canyon Tournament with a 72-54 victory over Westminster. Tyson Papenfuss led the team yet again with 28 points. UPS loses for the first time to Westmont. Looking at the box score, doesn't look like UPS played that bad, Westmont just seemed to be on. UPS did only make 7-13  free throws in the second half. That could have been the deciding factor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on December 30, 2007, 11:36:56 AM
I listened to most of the game and it sounded like that was the big factor in the loss to Westmont.  Sounded like there was a good crowd at the ball game as well.  13-21 from the charity stripe isn't going to win too many games.  The Loggers are ready for a little NWC action!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 30, 2007, 03:37:44 PM
There are some pictures posted of last weeks L&C - UC Santa Cruz game (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1990).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 31, 2007, 01:34:50 PM
UPS' game vs. Warner Pacific (originally Dec. 4) is now listed as "canceled" (as opposed to "postponed") on their website (http://www.ups.edu/x6738.xml).  Can anyone confirm (or deny) that this game is now gone forever and will not be rescheduled?  TIA.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 01, 2008, 02:50:58 PM
I really thought UPS was going to go into conference play undefeated... :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 01, 2008, 02:53:52 PM
The stats really tell the story though...no wonder UPS lost that game. Definately disappointing, hopefully the logs will be ready for league. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 01, 2008, 03:24:25 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 31, 2007, 01:34:50 PM
UPS' game vs. Warner Pacific (originally Dec. 4) is now listed as "canceled" (as opposed to "postponed") on their website (http://www.ups.edu/x6738.xml).  Can anyone confirm (or deny) that this game is now gone forever and will not be rescheduled?  TIA.

I cannot officially confirm, but feel confident to say that the UPS/Warner Pac game will not be played this year.  The NWC starts league play this weekend.  It would be tough to fit another game in when they are already playing 2 per week, just wouldn't be beneficial to UPS when they are trying to prepare for conference foes.  It would have been a great nonconference game to test UPS, its too bad the game didn't work out
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 02, 2008, 06:34:41 PM
First game of conference play starts tonight...

Jan. 2
Lewis & Clark at Pacific (Ore.)
Will be interesting to see how the game goes.  Its been awhile since Pac has played.  NWCer are you going to the game tonight? It would be nice to be a eyewitness account.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 02, 2008, 07:27:54 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 02, 2008, 06:34:41 PM
First game of conference play starts tonight...

Jan. 2
Lewis & Clark at Pacific (Ore.)
Will be interesting to see how the game goes.  Its been awhile since Pac has played.  NWCer are you going to the game tonight? It would be nice to be a eyewitness account.


If you are interested the game will be broadcast over the internet as well. You can go to the LC athletics website, www.lcpioneers.com and click on the link. I'll be listening!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 02, 2008, 10:14:44 PM
Logshow, glad I checked the board, yes, I'm on my way to Forest Grove!!!

Will give you eyewitness report  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 03, 2008, 12:54:26 AM
LC and Pacific going to OT all knotted up at 73. This is nerve-wracking to listen to online!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 03, 2008, 01:23:05 AM
LC escapes with a 80-75 win over Pacific in overtime. Pacific went on a 21-8 run in the second half and the Pios were down 13 at one point. The Pios were down four within three minutes to go. Free throws made the difference down the stretch. Not the prettiest showing for the Pios but a win is a win. They struggled from three-point land as they have done all year. David Berggren continued his struggles from three, going without a three-point basket for the first time in about two years. Clearly when the Pios struggle from long range they struggle to win. Luckily we were able to take the ball inside with Thomas Tillery cutting to the basket. He had 17. Tyson Papenfuss played well inside as always, finishing with 18. I think this is the key difference from the team this year and the team from years past. We have players that can play inside the paint or at least penetrate so that when the three are not falling we don't fall apart. Now we just have to penetrate and then hit those open threes as well!     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 03, 2008, 12:30:01 PM
Logshow, I got your eyewitness report  8),

Great game, I was expecting nobody to be there since school was out but it was a pretty decent crowd.  Saw some Pacific alums and they told me they saw every conference coach there, and Whitworth even brought their whole team.

My Boxers were in control of the game for the first 30 plus minutes, VanDomlen really had it going and was really carrying the load offensively.  Lewis and Clark's point guard Tillery basically took the game over down the stretch, Pacific wasn't really guarding him, almost forcing him to shoot, yet he was still able to get to the basket.

I'm sure UPS's coach must have been salivating when LC started pressing when they were down 10 with about 8 minutes to go and saw that Pacific didn't handle it well.  They're going to have to stand up to UPS's press better than how they handled LC's press last night to make it a game tomorrow.

I'm thinking about going back out to watch that one tomorrow, other than my Boxer's collapsing down the stretch it was an entertaining and fun night, it's always a different feel when conference games roll around.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2008, 12:41:28 PM
Looks like LC made some plays to win down the stretch.  Good come back win for the Pios, but too bad for the Boxers...they probably should have had that one it sounds like.

Thanks for the game summary NWCer, you are right conference does have a different feel.  There is more on the line and ever game counts.  I am looking forward to seeing how the Logs and the rest of the league does this weekend.

NWCer why do you think Pac had so much trouble with LC's press?  I thought they handled UPS's press pretty well last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 03, 2008, 01:19:38 PM
I'm not sure Logshow, they just didn't look comfortable.  Even when they got it up and scored it seemed like an adventure.  I don't know if they just weren't expecting them to press, or if they started playing "not to lose".

But as you said, yes - they should have had that one.

You're also right about Pacific handling UPS's press decently last year, I was at the one that they won, they got it up ok, and then milked the clock nearly every possession to control the tempo.  I would expect them to do the same this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2008, 01:26:08 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 03, 2008, 01:19:38 PM
they got it up ok, and then milked the clock nearly every possession to control the tempo.  I would expect them to do the same this season.

So did they not try to run the clock down against LC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 03, 2008, 01:42:57 PM
I couldn't really say Logshow, but it was not like it was last year when it was easy to see that their strategy was to burn as much clock offensively as they could.

Once again, I don't think they were just not ready to handle the press last night, even though when a team is down like that you have to expect them to try and pick up the pressure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 03, 2008, 02:23:28 PM
Well I've been MIA for quite some time now, but I'm back for the start of conference.  It sounds like the Boxers gave LC everything they could handle the other night.  That's kind of what you expect from league play, I think any team can beat any team on any given night and every win is a good win.  It doesnt matter if you win by 1 or by 30.  I can't wait to see how the Loggers come out for the first NWC road game to start out the season this Friday.  I wont be there in person but I look forward to NWCer's game analysis. 

My game score prediction...UPS 94  Pac 79

A couple other big matchups for the weekend...

UPS vs GFox
LC vs PLU
WW vs Linfield
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2008, 03:10:12 PM
nice to have you back SoundLogs!

I am with you on a Loggers victory down in forest grove.  I think the game will be a bit closer.  Pac is one of those teams that is tough to pull away from, especially how they slow it down and limit possesions.  This game will undoubtedly be very tough and physical...I hope the Loggers are ready to walk into that gym.  That being said I think UPS will hit their freethrows down the stretch and make it out of there 78-68.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 03, 2008, 03:27:00 PM
Logshow, I agree with you in that I think it will be a bit closer than Sounds predicted, and around the point total you described, although I obviously am picking my Boxers for the upset.  I think Lowry has no choice but to try and slow it down again this year, especially considering he's only playing 8 guys.  Its going to be a tough one, especially coming off last night's game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2008, 05:43:54 PM
NWCer, I thought Pac was supposed to have some good depth this year.  What happened injuries, or guys not panning out?

SoundLogs you brought up some other interesting games...

The UPS vs. G Fox game is critical for the Loggers.  Last year the Logs lost in Newberg and essentially ended their bid for a 4th consecutive conference title. 

I am also looking forward to the PLU vs. LC game.  PLU seems to be improving, and might give LC another test.  They aren't the push over they used to be.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 03, 2008, 07:58:11 PM
Logshow, I'm not positive, not in the total know but I heard there were a couple more transfers that didn't pan out - ended up not playing or leaving school, and then you throw in Bartlett getting injured and it can go from a 10 to 11 down to 8 in your rotation pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 05, 2008, 04:33:22 AM
Logshow, got your eyewitness report from Forest Grove  8)

Your Loggers are good, deep, talented, and they seemed to have a good chemistry.  Pacific did try to hold the ball, it was 0-0 with 15 minutes to go, and Pacific was up 3-0 with under 15 to go I think before UPS got on the board.  It was close the first half as UPS pulled away slowly, and eventually got it to 31-18 at halftime.

Williams is good, quick, great handles, nice moves, and Foster is amazing, what a player, they just wore my Boxers down.  Some really bad turnovers cost my Boxers, I think they had the right idea in slowing it down again this year, but they just really struggled offensively, they had to have nearly 30 turnovers.

I was at the UPS-Pacific game last year, and I think this year's edition of the Loggers is much better, mostly because of the development of Foster and Williams, and their overall team cohesiveness - that was really impressive. 

Any other posters out there take in a conference game tonight?  Nice win by Linfield over Whitworth, my Boxers are struggling, and Linfield is playing well, disheartning >:( :( :-[ :-\ :'(

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 06, 2008, 02:45:32 AM
Not sure why, but the Pios were missing two starters and ended up losing to PLU 108-95. Looking at the box score, nothing pops out except for the fact that PLU shot 46% from three in the first half compared to our 25%. The Pios made up for it, shooting a ridiculous 64% from three in the second half, but I guess it was too little too late. The PLU big man also dominated, scoring 29 points to go with 11 rebounds. It seems to me that the Pios are still trying to find their identity. The loss also ends the 13 game home win streak dating back to last year. Sad, sad day.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 06, 2008, 04:00:13 AM
I think the PLU game shows how important Rivera is to the Pios, without him their defense just isn't there. Not sure why he didn't play, but hopefully he will be back by next weekend's games. Even though it's basically the exact same two teams as last season, UPS definitely seems to be a few steps ahead of the Pios at this point in the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2008, 01:49:57 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 05, 2008, 04:33:22 AM
Logshow, got your eyewitness report from Forest Grove  8)

Your Loggers are good, deep, talented, and they seemed to have a good chemistry.  Pacific did try to hold the ball, it was 0-0 with 15 minutes to go, and Pacific was up 3-0 with under 15 to go I think before UPS got on the board.  It was close the first half as UPS pulled away slowly, and eventually got it to 31-18 at halftime.

Williams is good, quick, great handles, nice moves, and Foster is amazing, what a player, they just wore my Boxers down.  Some really bad turnovers cost my Boxers, I think they had the right idea in slowing it down again this year, but they just really struggled offensively, they had to have nearly 30 turnovers.

I was at the UPS-Pacific game last year, and I think this year's edition of the Loggers is much better, mostly because of the development of Foster and Williams, and their overall team cohesiveness - that was really impressive. 

Any other posters out there take in a conference game tonight?  Nice win by Linfield over Whitworth, my Boxers are struggling, and Linfield is playing well, disheartning >:( :( :-[ :-\ :'(

NWCer, thanks for the eyewitness update! Sounds like you were impressed with UPS, I think they have matured a lot from last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2008, 02:14:07 PM
What a great weekend for UPS!  Any road trip in conference is tough, and it was great to come away with two wins, especially at G Fox.  I remember hearing how the Logs lost down there last year, after being up big late in the second half.  Based and the write-up and play by play it wasn't an easy game for UPS but they really gutted out a victory on the road and thats what a league champion contender does. Great win and great start!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2008, 02:19:29 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 06, 2008, 04:00:13 AM
I think the PLU game shows how important Rivera is to the Pios, without him their defense just isn't there. Not sure why he didn't play, but hopefully he will be back by next weekend's games. Even though it's basically the exact same two teams as last season, UPS definitely seems to be a few steps ahead of the Pios at this point in the season.

That game must have really hurt especially at home.  PLU seems to be playing really well right now.

LCPios I would agree with you 100% about Rivera.  Watching LC play UPS last year, you could just tell he was there glue guy, he did everything.

Any other thoughts about the game LCPios or Pio20?  Even w/o Rivera, I would have thought LC would have handled PLU.  PLU is only 3.5 guys deep, with Brandeberry coming off an injury.  Seems like LC should have enough talent to still win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 06, 2008, 04:11:09 PM
No problem Logshow, hit me up with the eyewitness report  8) when my Boxers head up to Tacoma.

Yes, I was impressed with your Loggers.  I got the chance this week to see LC and UPS come to Forest Grove and get wins, but I'd have to say, in just the games I saw, UPS looked better.

I can't get over how good Williams and Foster were, just very talented...........................
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2008, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 06, 2008, 04:11:09 PM
No problem Logshow, hit me up with the eyewitness report  8) when my Boxers head up to Tacoma.

Yes, I was impressed with your Loggers.  I got the chance this week to see LC and UPS come to Forest Grove and get wins, but I'd have to say, in just the games I saw, UPS looked better.

I can't get over how good Williams and Foster were, just very talented...........................

They are, and they may standout the most, but UPS is very well rounded this year.  Kraul has been playing well as of late too, but its nice knowing that numerous guys can step up and have a big game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 06, 2008, 06:19:54 PM
Don't get me wrong Logshow, they have plenty of other good players, their depth is apparent, and Kraul is awesome too as well, it's just the combination of athleticism and talent from Williams and Foster are very rare for the NWC, they could easily be playing, and playing well, at a higher level, but I'm glad they are in the league, the better players division III and the conference can get is great.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on January 06, 2008, 08:25:08 PM
Logshow, PLU may be only 3.5 players deep, but with 3 players who are  all conference players, they have to be considered legitimate league title contenders.    Brandeberry may just be back from the IR, but his numbers in the box score are pretty impressive.   The PLU-UPS matchup on Tuesday looks to be a very interesting game.    The only problem I see is that after Heidenreich, PLU drops off in the ball handling dept pretty heavily.  As for LC, I am not sure if you take the top two defenders and rebounders from any team in the conference, that they could win against the top half of this conference on any given night.  Tough hole to dig out of.   Their D2 transfer who hurt his knee against Pacific is the real deal, and they missed him as much as Rivera.    Whitworth kind of dug a little hole themselves with that loss at Linfield, and don't count Linfield out yet, either.
Interesting first week, huh?   Linfield, PLU and UPS all 2-0!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 06, 2008, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2008, 02:19:29 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 06, 2008, 04:00:13 AM
I think the PLU game shows how important Rivera is to the Pios, without him their defense just isn't there. Not sure why he didn't play, but hopefully he will be back by next weekend's games. Even though it's basically the exact same two teams as last season, UPS definitely seems to be a few steps ahead of the Pios at this point in the season.

That game must have really hurt especially at home.  PLU seems to be playing really well right now.

LCPios I would agree with you 100% about Rivera.  Watching LC play UPS last year, you could just tell he was there glue guy, he did everything.

Any other thoughts about the game LCPios or Pio20?  Even w/o Rivera, I would have thought LC would have handled PLU.  PLU is only 3.5 guys deep, with Brandeberry coming off an injury.  Seems like LC should have enough talent to still win.

I think in general the Pios just really haven't pulled together as a team yet. Part of that is the impact that the transfers have had. Papenfuss came in and is now our leading scorer and Josh Kollasch has started quite a few games and is very athletic. I think part of the reason LC was picked to repeat was that they are returning 4 of 5 starters. In other words, we are supposed to be as good as last year and building on that. But instead I think the impact of the transfers has changed that. The whole dynamic of the team is very different from last year in my eyes. David Berrgren, who dominated from three point land last season is struggling this season to find his stroke. Last year's leading scorer Joey Toboni is now our third leading scorer. I have seen Coach Gaillard use multiple line changes in games, not sure if he still is. I mean every team loves to have 10 players that can start and 10 players that can all score, but I think in our case right now that is hurting us. All the pieces are still trying to fit together. Looking at last year it took us a while to fit it all together as well. It wasn't until late in the season that we hit our stride. The only thing is that this year, we have higher expectations, and we know it is all but impossible to finish second in conference and get into the tourney. And yes right now, if we played UPS, we would get crushed. Hopefully we will pull it together quick.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 06, 2008, 09:36:34 PM
Disappointed with Whitworth's loss at Linfield, but can't really comment because the Pirates have yet to play a home game this season and I haven't had a chance to see the new players in person.  I had thought Symes would be scoring more, but no observations otherwise.

Interesting game coming up on Friday.  Either L&C or Whitworth will pick up a second NWC loss early in the year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 06, 2008, 10:56:33 PM
First, I realize inferences can't be made from one game, things change as a season progresses. But I was able to see 4 NWC teams in OOC games and talked to a former student who plays for CSU Stanislaus. He had high praise for UPS, said they may be coming down this way for the CSUS tournament next year. Of the 4 teams I saw L&C was definately the best. Linfield looked a bit better than Whitworth (such that each will win in their own crib) and Whitman was the weakest of the four. I will not see any more NWC games so I look forward to reading the comments from the regulars here. Have fun and I hope you all have some entertaining games to watch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 07, 2008, 08:27:43 PM
Any predictions for the PLU-UPS game? Seems to me if UPS can play better defense than LC did they shouldn't have any problem as long as they shoot like they have been all year. But it is conference and you never know...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 07, 2008, 09:07:26 PM
New top 25 is up. LC drops from #16 to #22. That's about what I figured. UPS moves up a spot to #9. Looking at the polls the past few seasons (excluding last season of course) it looks like the top ten is familiar territory for UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 08, 2008, 12:31:32 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 07, 2008, 09:07:26 PM
New top 25 is up. LC drops from #16 to #22. That's about what I figured. UPS moves up a spot to #9. Looking at the polls the past few seasons (excluding last season of course) it looks like the top ten is familiar territory for UPS.

Pio20 you are right about that.  UPS has pretty much been ranked since the middle of the 2003-04 season, and have been ranked as high as #3.  It is nice to be recognized, even though the ranking don't help you get into the national tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 08, 2008, 12:45:00 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 07, 2008, 08:27:43 PM
Any predictions for the PLU-UPS game? Seems to me if UPS can play better defense than LC did they shouldn't have any problem as long as they shoot like they have been all year. But it is conference and you never know...

Well its going to be a fun one to watch, thats for sure.  Last year PLU gave UPS quite a scare at home before shakey free throw shooting down the strech doomed the Lutes.  I got to believe that they are riding high after starting league 2-0 with a big win over LC.  If UPS needs to contain PLU's top 3 players, especially Dressler (who has been putting up huge numbers).  If UPS doesn't and isn't ready to play then it will be a battle.  I think that UPS will be more then ready to hand it to the Lutes.  I am looking for Marsh to have a big game, he has been kind of quiet lately, so he is due.  I my prediction is after a tight first half the Loggers pull away big in the 2nd, 107-88. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 08, 2008, 09:51:06 AM
Big game tonight!!!  PLU looks like they are on the rise this year, they will certainly be able to sneak up on people(LC) because of how bad they have been the last few years.  If UPS comes ready to play and doesnt overlook the Lutes then I'm guessing it will be a rout....if they come in too overconfident by their new #9 ranking and dont take their Tacoma rivals seriously they will be in big trouble. 

My prediction...Justin Lunt is an ex-Lute and I think he will be pretty fired up to play his old school and knowing the UPS team, they dont overlook their opposition too often.  I think they'll come out fired up to be playing at home again and win pretty big. 
I've got UPS 96....PLU 80. 

I hope to make it to the game so hopefully I'll have some first hand observations 8). 

Logshow, will you be in attendance?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 08, 2008, 01:16:44 PM
SoundLogs, I am planning on being there.  Even though the school's are still on break, I am expecting a big crowd tonight.  Lots of people in the tacoma community come out to watch this game.

Pio20, what did you go to LC's game against PLU? What did you think of the Lutes?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 08, 2008, 02:06:52 PM
I didn't go to the game, as we are still on break until the 22nd. But I am actually heading back to Ptown tonight and am disappointed we don't have a home game until the 19th! But I am planning on making the short trip over to George Fox to see that game on the 18th and I am excited to see some basketball!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 08, 2008, 09:02:45 PM
good luck tonight Loggers, go get those Lutes!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 08, 2008, 11:49:45 PM
PLU beating UPS 57-50 at the half. Sounds like quite a game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 09, 2008, 01:21:12 AM
UPS nips PLU in double OT! Wow what a game! Sounded to me like PLU ran with UPS the whole game then UPS scored the first nine points in the second OT and it was over. Thoughts from the Logger fans?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 09, 2008, 01:38:00 AM
Wow!! Looks like it was a great game in Tacoma, and appears that PLU has a team that will be in the race for the long haul. For those that have been following NWC a little longer, what do you think the difference is with this years PLU team as compared to the past??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 09, 2008, 02:35:41 AM
Well PLU gave the Loggers all they could handle tonight...PLU is a good team, got to give them credit.  It was close and tense.  But after it is all said and done, it was a great win for the Loggers! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 09, 2008, 10:11:26 AM
Great game last night in Tacoma!  PLU is much better than I expected.  To look at them their players dont really look like much, but when they started to play it was kind of an eye opener.  I think UPS was caught somewhat offguard.  PLU actually decided to run with the Loggers most of the game, they started to look very tired with about ten minutes to go in the second half.  Their tiredness is what killed them in the end.  They were up by 14 with about 9-10 minutes to go in the second half and it was quickly erased and made into a Logger lead.  However, they continued to make some tough shots and keep it close until Marsh missed a buzzer beater in regulation.  The two overtimes were pretty much back and forth until PLU got completely worn down eventually and UPS took the lead for good.

UPS played pretty bad in the first half, but they showed a lot of grit in pulling out the tough win.  Hat's off to PLU, they will catch alot of people sleeping this year they're a very good team. 

For PLU I was definitely most impressed with their big guy.  I forget his name (Mcdanials ???) but he had some great inside moves, made a couple nice 15 footers, and rebounded the ball very well.  PLU was undersized but he played very tough for them. 

For UPS their player of the game had to be Krauel.  Everytime they needed a tough bucket or board he was there to get it.  I haven't checked any stats yet, but he impresses me more and more each time I watch him play!  I think he was the difference at the end of the game with a couple 3's, lots of tough boards, and strong inside play. 

Logshow, any details I left out?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 09, 2008, 10:17:11 AM
I just checked some stats....

For UPS

Krauel - 33/10
Foster - 31/9
Williams - 30pts

For PLU

Mcdanial- 37/10

Holy cow :o :o :o....those are some serious numbers!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 09, 2008, 08:48:57 PM
I'm back in Portland and can now get the inside scoop on otherwise unavailable information. Thus, I found out today that Gene Rivera missed the PLU game because he was sick and Josh Kollasch sprained his knee at Pacific. Rivera will be back for this weekend's games and it might take Kollasch a little longer to get back. As evidenced with the PLU game, we need that inside defense and rebounding to win!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 09, 2008, 09:40:06 PM
UPSoundLogs,  I think you summed up the game pretty well.  I agree that UPS did not represent well in the first half, but came through in the 2nd.  It seemed like a trend from last year, I was hoping that we were passed that, but I don't know...or maybe we just under-estimated PLU.

The PLU post was quite impressive.  I couldn't figure out why UPS was playing behind him :-\, I can't imagine that's what the coaching staff wanted.  He torched us last year and again last night, I would have thought we had learned our lesson.  I was also a bit concerned how easily PLU got by us in the half court.  It wasn't just landon either, #11 had quite a bit of success too.

That being said...it is still a win no matter what way you slice it, and thats what its all about!  It doesn't get any easier with a confident Linfield team coming in on Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 09, 2008, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 09, 2008, 08:48:57 PM
I'm back in Portland and can now get the inside scoop on otherwise unavailable information. Thus, I found out today that Gene Rivera missed the PLU game because he was sick and Josh Kollasch sprained his knee at Pacific. Rivera will be back for this weekend's games and it might take Kollasch a little longer to get back. As evidenced with the PLU game, we need that inside defense and rebounding to win!

Pio20,  thanks for the insight.  Are you suprised Rivera didn't play because of the flu?  Maybe Gailard wasn't worried about PLU so he thought he could rest Rivera?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 09, 2008, 11:05:50 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 09, 2008, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 09, 2008, 08:48:57 PM
I'm back in Portland and can now get the inside scoop on otherwise unavailable information. Thus, I found out today that Gene Rivera missed the PLU game because he was sick and Josh Kollasch sprained his knee at Pacific. Rivera will be back for this weekend's games and it might take Kollasch a little longer to get back. As evidenced with the PLU game, we need that inside defense and rebounding to win!

Pio20,  thanks for the insight.  Are you suprised Rivera didn't play because of the flu?  Maybe Gailard wasn't worried about PLU so he thought he could rest Rivera?

I am very suprised he didn't play. Usually a player can battle through an illness. I'm not sure how bad it was though. All i know is it showed that without Rivera anyone can beat our small lineup by going inside. He holds us together defensively, as evidenced with his record setting 51 blocks last season. Last season, we only gave up 80 or more points 6 times, with three of those six games being losses. This year we have only given up over 80 points two times, with both of those being losses. Clearly, defense is crucial to our success.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 10, 2008, 03:46:22 AM
QuoteClearly, defense is crucial to our success

Very true...that probably applies to most teams in the NWC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 10, 2008, 10:45:40 AM
Logshow,

I really do think that the Loggers underestimated PLU.  The Lutes have been scraping the bottom of the conference for the last few seasons so it was probably hard for the UPS players to mentally get themselves prepared to play a VERY improved team.  I was actually shocked at how much better PLU is now.  That being said, I think they do need to come out with a lot more fire in the first half.  They have been pretty lucky so far in that they are able to dig themselves out of deep holes, but it will catch up to them sooner or later.  In my opinion any of the NWC teams can beat UPS, they need to come out of the gates with more intensity or they could end up losing to an inferior team. 

As for the UPS post defense on Mcdaniels, I think you're right, they were supposed to front him and didnt do a good job.  It seems like a slight problem for the Logs this year will be to play against bigger/stronger post players.  All though UPS is pretty tall and very athletic they dont really have anybody thats really big and strong, Krauel is definitely their most physical player and he does a very good job, but he's still only 200lbs.  They really need to do a better job of fronting and getting help defense in the post.  I'm not sure how many 37/10 games from opposing posts they can withstand and not get a loss.  They'll figure it out though.

I feel like I'm being too negative.  Overall, it was a very exciting game, a win is a win, and I think this Logger team has the potential to be very special!

Bring on Linfield!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 10, 2008, 02:39:57 PM
I think Linfield will be another challenging game.  They are much improved too, and based on their stats love the 3 pointer.  I am looking forward to the game on Friday!

Haven't heard from Dumpdotes in a while...I was wondering if you still feel the same way, or are singing a different tune now that Linfield is winning some games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 10, 2008, 02:52:44 PM
Linfield's point guard, a transfer from Western Oregon, is very quick. Leave him a bit of an opening and he is past you driving to the hoop.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 10, 2008, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: cawcdad on January 10, 2008, 02:52:44 PM
Linfield's point guard, a transfer from Western Oregon, is very quick. Leave him a bit of an opening and he is past you driving to the hoop.

Did you ever see OJ Gulley play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 10, 2008, 04:35:12 PM
Didn't realize that LC's Bob Gaillard was interviewed back on Nov. 18th.
http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives.htm
Link is on the right there. Sounds like he knew PLU was gonna be tough.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 10, 2008, 05:10:23 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 10, 2008, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: cawcdad on January 10, 2008, 02:52:44 PM
Linfield's point guard, a transfer from Western Oregon, is very quick. Leave him a bit of an opening and he is past you driving to the hoop.

Did you ever see OJ Gulley play?
Never had the pleasure, but I have heard about him. Sure wish I had.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 10, 2008, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 10, 2008, 04:35:12 PM
Didn't realize that LC's Bob Gaillard was interviewed back on Nov. 18th.
http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives.htm
Link is on the right there. Sounds like he knew PLU was gonna be tough.

PLU is tough...I wouldn't be suprised if they are in the running for the NWC tournament
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 10, 2008, 08:04:49 PM
A pair of big games tomorrow night with Linfield at UPS and LC at Whitworth.
It will be interesting to see if Linfield has enough to hang w/ UPS and either LC or Whitworth is going to be in a bit of a hole early in league play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 10, 2008, 11:47:14 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 10, 2008, 08:04:49 PM
A pair of big games tomorrow night with Linfield at UPS and LC at Whitworth.
It will be interesting to see if Linfield has enough to hang w/ UPS and either LC or Whitworth is going to be in a bit of a hole early in league play.

No doubt about it!  UPS/Linfield is for first place in the conference.  If UPS wins every other team will have a tally in the loss column.

LC/WW is going to be a great game.  LC has the talent and experience, but WW is a tough place to play...game might be a toss up.  The game is huge for both teams, 2 losses this early really puts that team behind the 8-ball.  I think the game will be a back and forth battle.  Not really sure who to pick, I guess I will go with WW just nosing out a victory, simply because it is tough to win there.

UPSoundLogs what do you think about these 2 games this weekend?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 10, 2008, 11:48:14 PM
Meant to add LCPio and Pio20...what are your guys thoughts on LC's big game this weekend?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 11, 2008, 04:09:19 AM
I think the Pios a) want to make up for the heartbreaking loss for the conference crown there last year and b) have been sitting around with the PLU loss on their minds and are anxious to get back on the court and make up for it. That said, WW is always dangerous and we will have Rivera back and ready to improve the D. I'm guessing Papenfuss tears it up inside with at least 15 points. If Tillery can get to the line and we can shoot better than 30% from the line I think we can pull off a win. Looking at WW, Symes will get his but we have to be wary of Riley, who is shooting a ridiculous .500 clip from the arc and Nakamura who is shooting at a .525 clip. They could hurt us. In their loss to Linfield, Nakamura only had 12 and Riley only 5. If we can contain those two I think we should be ok. I'm predicting a tight game at the half and hoping LC pulls away for the 72-64. Note the "hoping." I think the team is anything but confident right now and this game is big, both in the win column and the confidence of the team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 11, 2008, 10:04:23 AM
Logshow,

The WW vs LC game is a big one.  With Rivera back I think the Pio's are going to pull out the win.  I dont know much about WW and their new guys, but just from looking at game scores and reading the post game write ups I dont think they are as good as they have been.  LC is a pretty dominant team and with them being back full strength I think they will overcome the TOUGH road trip to WW and come out on top. 

My prediction- LC 66  WW 62

As for the UPS vs Linfield game, I'm looking for the Loggers to come out with a focused first half.  If they are able to do that then I think they will bury Linfield.  UPS has been having to dig themselves out of holes lately and its making me nervous, if they play a complete game like they were at the beginning of the year they shouldn't have a problem.  Especially at home.

My prediction- UPS 102 Lin-86

And as a side note, I think you're right Logshow, the Lutes will be in the running for one of the 3 playoff spots I was very impressed with their performance on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 11, 2008, 01:46:48 PM
Here are the match-ups for tonight's games...


Pacific (Ore.) at Whitman

Lewis & Clark at Whitworth

Linfield at Puget Sound

George Fox at Willamette
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 11, 2008, 02:33:08 PM
Here are my predictions:

Pacific beats Whitman 81-69
LC beats Whitworth 72-64
UPS beats Linfield 106-94
George Fox beats Willamette 88-73

Gonna be a fun night in the NWC!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 11, 2008, 02:47:32 PM
While the Pios haven't really found their stride yet, it seems like WW has similarly struggled so far this year. I agree that this is a game the Pios have circled (because being so close last year on that floor) so I think they will play better, and of course having Rivera back is huge. I'll say the Pios pull out a close 71-66 win, although I wouldn't be surprised at all if the outcome is reversed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 11, 2008, 06:28:17 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 11, 2008, 02:33:08 PM
Here are my predictions:

Pacific beats Whitman 81-69
LC beats Whitworth 72-64
UPS beats Linfield 106-94
George Fox beats Willamette 88-73


I got Pac in a tight one over Whitman 75-72
WW/LC is a toss up..guess I will give the nod to WW because of home court
G Fox over Willamette 90-77
And of course the Loggers over Linfield 103-83
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 11, 2008, 06:36:27 PM
UPSoundLogs are you going to make it to the game tonight?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 11, 2008, 09:00:53 PM
Good luck tonight Logs! Get it done against Linfield!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 11, 2008, 11:57:36 PM
Well this is disgustingly sad. The Pios are down 24-16 at the half and lucky it is not more. Could have easily pulled away to start the game but continued to give up offensive rebounds and have turned the ball over ten times. Not a formula for a win. The Pios are shooting all of 16% from three point range. They are lucky the Pirates are shooting equally as bad. They better pick it up or else they are gonna find themselves with another loss.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 12, 2008, 12:18:54 AM
What's worse (except perhaps for Pio fans) is that, in listening to the game (http://www.whitworth.edu/athletics/Information/Radio.htm), my life hasn't been improved through better hearing even once!   ;)

WW is up 18 now.

Elsewhere, Linfield is giving UPS a good test.  Loggers lead 74-69, under 7:00 left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2008, 12:43:08 AM
WW's live stats have them up 53-27 with less than 7 min. to play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 12, 2008, 12:46:44 AM
Linfield had the game tied at 80 with 2:11 left, but UPS closed it out in style, winning 89-82.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 12, 2008, 12:53:29 AM
L&C's Mark Robinowitz and Tyson Papenfuss combined for two points tonight.   :o

Final score: Whitworth 64, Lewis & Clark 33.  Oh.  My.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 12, 2008, 12:54:36 AM
Ouch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 12, 2008, 01:04:55 AM
The Pios played worse in the second half than they did in the first. Didn't think that was possible. Definitely the worst LC performance I have seen or heard EVER. Take your pick: the 26% from the field, the 20% from three, the 15 turnovers, or the 17 offensive rebounds allowed. Tillery and Papenfuss had ZERO points. Has to be the first time that has happened for both players. Rivera and Robinowitz had 2. 33 total points is just sad. I thought the Pios would be hungry coming off their PLU loss, but it was the opposite. They still haven't found their rythm and tonight proved it in a horribly bad, bad way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 12, 2008, 01:18:05 AM
Well, when you shoot 26%, get outrebounded by 23 and have 15 turnovers you are generally going to lose. Clearly, there is a big difference between being the surprise team (last year) and having the target on your back (this year). Luckily, nothing has been decided after three games, so hopefully the Pios can figure things out soon.
Looks as though Linfield gave the Loggers a scare...NWC is deep this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 12, 2008, 01:36:18 AM
The Pios are simply not playing up to expectations. As I said a while ago, instead of building on last year they have taken a step back. From an article I wrote in Novemeber:

"[Our #21 ranking] won't change us but will motivate opponents," said Head Coach Bob Gaillard. Junior guard Corey Allen expressed similar sentiments: "Last year, teams didn't have us marked on their calendars. This year we will probably be their most anticipated game in conference."

This has indeed been the case, and the Pios simply are not responding.
Last year they started 4-3 in conference before they reeled off nine straight wins. I don't know if they can do that again this season though. Maybe dropping out of the top 25 and into the bottom pack of the NWC will shake some life into the Pios.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 12, 2008, 02:43:16 AM
Wow i couldn't believe what i saw...LC whats going on.  Did they sleep walk through the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 12, 2008, 02:46:54 AM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 12, 2008, 01:18:05 AM
Well, when you shoot 26%, get outrebounded by 23 and have 15 turnovers you are generally going to lose. Clearly, there is a big difference between being the surprise team (last year) and having the target on your back (this year). Luckily, nothing has been decided after three games, so hopefully the Pios can figure things out soon.
Looks as though Linfield gave the Loggers a scare...NWC is deep this season.

LC is a tough road infront of them...they still have to come to Tacoma to play UPS and lets not forget PLU.  In addition to playing WW, PLU, and UPS at home.  LC is in a very deep hole.

How does a team full of shooters shot that poorly? and the new post and tillery both had a goose egg?  Amazing...NWC is in for a crazy year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 12, 2008, 02:51:44 AM
Well atleast the world is right in Tacoma...UPS had a tough challenge from Linfield tonight.  I don't really think that UPS had their best effort.  Seemed lazy and disinterested at times.  The press was pretty shakey, resulting in lots of lay-ups.  Not their best effort but good enough for a win.  UPS missed lots of easy lay-ups, and there were a few times that the post players were doubled/tripled teamed and should have kicked it out.  Surprisingly the ft shooting of the Loggers was sub-par too missing key freebies down the stretch.  But I guess I will take wins however UPS gets them!  4-0 feels pretty good!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 12, 2008, 03:19:36 AM
Another year, hello to any and all regs and noobies.  Nice to finally see a Pioneer in here.

Great game for the Pirates Friday vs LC.  LC might have been cold or worse game ever or whatever but WW is a VERY good defensive team and winning in Spokane might just have become harder than ever. 

Fact:  The Pirates (8-3 overall, 2-1 NWC), came into the game leading the NWC in scoring defense, shooting percentage defense and rebounding margin.  If Pacific can score over 55 pts Sat.,  I will be surprised.

To win the NWC you got to go thru WW and UPS, no exceptions. 





Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 12, 2008, 02:39:35 PM
Wow, what a first impression the Pirates were able to give the home fans last night.  This team will be alright.

Some observations: 

1.  My biggest concern about the Bucs heading into this year was point guard.  After eight straight seasons with great point guard play with Williams (Chase) and Williams (Bryan), the Pirates have at least two more with Ross  Nakamura.  When L&C tried to jump start its game last night with a full court press, Nakamura made them pay for it and that was when Whitworth pulled away.  Box score says 10 assists, one turnover.

2.  Nate Montgomery gives the Bucs a different look at post.  While not as physical as Hasenfus, he is far more athletic.  His dunk on the break last night was really impressive.

3.  Ryan Symes, when playing well, is the toughest match up in the league.  He can play big or small and is quicker than most who guard him.  But he is still susceptable to 1 for 11 shooting nights (see Willamette game).

4.  Colin Willemsen is the kind of player every coach loves, willing to do the dirty work of rebounding and defense.  He can pass and dribble, when necessary. 

5.  I want to see more of David Riley, the freshman who has had some big games for Whitworth so far.  He didn't have much impact last night, but he looks like he could be a player.

I would not be surprised if the Bucs have a little bit of a let down tonight against Pacific.  Kind of natural after a game like last night, especially with an early start.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 12, 2008, 02:47:09 PM
Now on the L&C -

I have seen Bob G. bring some great Pioneer teams into the Fieldhouse.  Some of the battles when the teams were NAIA DII powers in the 1990s were amazing (like when Bigfella was playing).  The Scott Davis teams from 7-8 years ago were really good too with Spokane's own Mietus playing inside. 

I thought this year's squad would be right up there with those groups.  Now the Whitworth defensive effort was outstanding.  Every Pioneer shot was contested.  But after a while the frustration clearly settled on on this team and they started throwing up shots that made me shake my head.  Not necessarily long shots, but some really off-balance attempts that didn't seem to have much chance of going down. 

Right now it clearly seems to be a case of the whole being lesser than the sum of its parts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 12, 2008, 03:13:17 PM
Pinecone, would you say that maybe the pressure and expectations are weighing heavy on the Pios?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 12, 2008, 03:17:15 PM
Tonights matchups:

Lewis & Clark at Whitman

Pacific (Ore.) at Whitworth

Willamette at Pacific Lutheran

George Fox at Linfield

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 12, 2008, 03:59:58 PM
"Pinecone, would you say that maybe the pressure and expectations are weighing heavy on the Pios?"

Logshow - hard to say.  It is a lot easier to try to read what's happening on the floor than figure what's going on inside the heads of the players.  However an observer decides to interpret the current play of the Pioneers, they are not playing up to the level they should be.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 12, 2008, 04:12:42 PM
The 33 points scored by the Pioneers was just two points off the lowest offensive totals in Pioneer history, a 40-31 loss to Pacific in 1949. 1-2 in conference hurts. Guess they better go undefeated in the rest of league play now! :) 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 12, 2008, 09:09:35 PM
Here are my predictions for tonight:

LC over whitman big...96-70

Pac stuns WW 70-65

G Fox finally get on the board against Linfield 87-83

And Wilamette over PLU 79-74...this one might be more wishful thinking on my part.  But maybe Coach James has some tricks up his sleeves!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 12, 2008, 09:09:55 PM
Thoughts from anyone else?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 12, 2008, 09:23:50 PM
LC beats Whitman 90-83 (I hope, LC already has 4 points, only need 29 more points to top yesterday's performance)
WW beats Pacific 88-80
PLU beats Willamette 67-55
George Fox beats Linfield 92-84

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 12, 2008, 10:15:07 PM
Pacific has 30 with 9:26 to go....WW is for real. 

There's a difference between a prediction and a wish.

Go Bucs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 12, 2008, 11:00:33 PM
Pios win 76-68. Started off slow but then found their stride. Tillery had 17, Robinowitz with 14. Rivera had 4 blocks. Still sounded like the Pios were giving up a lot of offensive rebounds but hopefully this will help them get back in the right direction.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 12, 2008, 11:08:45 PM
WW takes care of Pacific 61-44. Pacific gave up 19 offensive rebounds.
PLU beats Willamette big and Linfield squeaks by George Fox. Another tough loss for George Fox. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 13, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
Cats beat the Bruins 68 - 65. Listened to the last 5-6 minutes. GF had the lead and let another slip away. Man, I wish I could see some NWC games. Seems like most games are going to be tight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 13, 2008, 02:01:53 PM
nwhoops1903, the jury is still out on WW. They have had one shakey weekend and one great weekend.  They are young and inexperienced.  WW's defense might have been clicking, but they really struggled on offense.  Shooting 38 and 40% from the field and around 30% from 3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 13, 2008, 02:05:36 PM
Conference Standings through 4 games:

Puget Sound      4-0
Whitworth          3-1
Linfield                3-1
Pacific Lutheran  3-1
Lewis & Clark     2-2
Willamette         2-2
Pacific (Ore.)      1-3
George Fox       0-4
Whitman           0-4
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 13, 2008, 02:38:06 PM
The Pios got the win, but it was still far from the effort they will need to beat good NWC teams. Whitman was ahead by 5 midway through the second half and then the Pios went on a 19-2 run to take control. Hopefully the team that played the last 10 minutes will show up on a full time basis from now on.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 13, 2008, 03:11:13 PM
Standings through 4 games:                Coach's poll at start of season:
                                                             
Puget Sound      4-0                             Lewis & Clark         
Whitworth          3-1                             Puget Sound
Linfield                3-1                            Whitworth
Pacific Lutheran  3-1                             Pacific
Lewis & Clark     2-2                              Pacific Lutheran
Willamette         2-2                              Willamette
Pacific (Ore.)      1-3                              George Fox
George Fox       0-4                               Linfield
Whitman           0-4                               Whitman

Conference play is far far from over but it is definitely not shaking up like predicted. You never know what is gonna happen! LC travels to George Fox on Friday and if they can take that game then they have four games in a row at home. Perhaps the home court advantage they capitalized on last season (11 in a row at home) will spark them once again this season. As has been mentioned, the Pios are definitely in a hole, as the past eight NWC champions have finished 13-3 or better in conference. Losing more than three games probably won't get you a NWC crown. Definitely a long road ahead for a team that is last in the NWC in three point percentage and takes a ton of threes. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 13, 2008, 04:24:55 PM
Conference play never does shape up like the predictions...thats why they play the games :)

Who has the tuesday game this week?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 13, 2008, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 13, 2008, 04:24:55 PM
Conference play never does shape up like the predictions...thats why they play the games :)

Who has the tuesday game this week?

Willamette (2-2) heads to Linfield (3-1)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 13, 2008, 04:55:38 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 13, 2008, 04:24:55 PM
Who has the tuesday game this week?

Schedules are among the many, many features of this website, apart from the message boards.
F'rinstance, you can find NWC men's standings and a composite schedule and results page here. (http://www.d3hoops.com/conference/NWC/mens)
I encourage you to explore; you may find some very interesting and/or useful information.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 13, 2008, 06:37:34 PM
Thanks Pio :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 13, 2008, 08:52:23 PM
Logshow I am glad you want very much to believe (you predicted Pac to win!?..stay away from Vegas) that WW is young and inconsistent and beatable at home, hopefully your team will have the same attitude at game time.  A look at Linfield's record and schedule will show that they are much better team than anticipated, so the loss there on opening night can't raise any huge question mark.
Winning at Willamette is no picnic, especially since WW has never lost to WIL in Salem since Hayford arrived at WW.  I doubt there is a streak WIL would like to end any more than that, so you know they get up for that game EVERY year.

As is typical, the winner of the first UPS WW matchup will be in the driver's seat.  Should WW get by PLU Friday, PLU will drop to 2 loses and setup the big matchup Saturday.  I doubt WH will upset UPS Friday, although I wish they somehow manage just that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 12:41:45 AM
I was simply thinking the WW might have a let down against Pac after their big win over LC, but the prediction was half-hearted at best.  Hopefully you have a lucky hat for this weekend, because WW has the most daunting road for the NWC @PLU then UPS.  Maybe you will find a genie in a lamp and get 3 wishes...That way you could wish for a win at PLU & UPS as well as when UPS comes to town for the second round.  I really wouldn't overlook PLU, WW might head back to Spokane 3-3
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 12:53:19 AM
Logshow,

2 weeks in and your boys are sitting by themselves.......

PLU and Linfield seems to have taken the league by surprise, making multiple great/important/intriguing matchups every night.  That's what makes league fun.

Still early though, my Boxers have two at home this weekend.  With LC, UPS, and Whitworth already behind them for this round hopefully they can add a few victories before the turn.  Looking forward to seeing Linfield, possibly at 4-1 if they win Tuesday against Willamette, coming in to Forest Grove on Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 12:54:24 AM
I am not sure how you could believe they are experienced.  Symes and Willemson are the only two guy who played major minutes last year.  Of the other 6 guys who average double digit mins 3 are freshman, 1 soph. a JC transfer and seldom used Jr.  I will maybe give you the JC guy could have some experience, but not in the NWC, and he is definately no B. Willams.  WW is tough at home, but I can see them struggling on the road.  I am not saying that they are not talented, because they are, and I will give Hayford credit because I think he does a good job there.  This road trip will be very telling about WW and what they have in the tank for this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 12:59:51 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 12:53:19 AM
Logshow,

2 weeks in and your boys are sitting by themselves.......

PLU and Linfield seems to have taken the league by surprise, making multiple great/important/intriguing matchups every night.  That's what makes league fun.

Still early though, my Boxers have two at home this weekend.  With LC, UPS, and Whitworth already behind them for this round hopefully they can add a few victories before the turn.  Looking forward to seeing Linfield, possibly at 4-1 if they win Tuesday against Willamette, coming in to Forest Grove on Friday.

NWCer, good to hear from you! :)

Yeah I am happy will UPS and where they are at...but I still think they need to continue to get better!  I was hoping maybe your boxers could give WW a little bit of trouble, but maybe they were just saving it for when WW visits Forest Grove.  Pac sure did have a tough early schedule, but they do have time to come around.  I could see them in a close one against Linfield this weekend, they should match up well against them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 01:03:46 AM
I agree with you about this trip will tell you a lot about Whitworth, but looking at their schedule everyone will.......

They split the first one, which included a last possession score to send it to overtime at Willamette which they won

This weekend's looks very tough

Next round, even though they spanked LC and my Boxers this weekend, it will be a tough swing through Palatine Hill and the Grove.

Honestly, are there any easy trips?

Question for any former, or current NWC coaches or players who have been around a while, and of course anyone else who wants to chime in, year in and year out, where is the toughest place in the conference to get a win?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 01:06:59 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 01:03:46 AM

Honestly, are there any easy trips?

hmmmm....nope!  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 01:08:56 AM
I agree Logshow
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 01:22:42 AM
I always like to chime in...As far as toughest place to play:

Over the past few years UPS has had a good run.  Going back and looking at their results since 2003-04.  That year they lost @Wilamette.
04-05 lost @G. Fox
05-06 lost @Wilamette and @WW
And I will conviently leave out last year (Pac, Wil, G. Fox, and LC)

So I think that I would have to go with 
1) UPS--Had a streak of 32 straight.  only lost one conference game @ home in the past 3.5 years. 
2) Wilamette--I don't know what it is but UPS has tough games there. won 3 out of last 4 years
3) WW--even though UPS has had lots of success there
4) Tough to decide Linfield, LC, Pac, and G. Fox--all pretty equal
5) PLU--crosstown rival, and a program that is improving
5) Whitman--they are no push over
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 01:23:29 AM
anyone else? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 01:26:30 AM
Thanks for the breakdown.  Yeah, they all sound tough.  I need to get to more games outside of the Grove, only other places I've been to is Lewis and Clark and Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 01:35:33 AM
"WW is tough at home, but I can see them struggling on the road."

Logshow - Certainly the advantage of playing the first ten games away from home this season means the Pirates are road tested.

But you are correct, the fact that the team has four new starters this season has lead to inconsistent play.  Losses against Chapman and Linfield bear that out.  BUT as the season goes on, that inconsistency will diminish as these players gain more and more experience.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 01:42:37 AM
As far as toughest places to play, that can be answered two ways.

First - historically over the last 12 years (since the current make up of the league)
1. Whitworth - consistently biggest crowds and toughest teams
2. Willamette - Gordie gets em ready to play
3. George Fox - Especially on homecoming weekend
4. Linfield - students could be rowdy when team is playing well

Second - currently
1.  UPS - tough style, good crowd
2.  Whitworth - see above
3.  Willamette - see above
4.  Lewis & Clark - students actually starting to show interest
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 02:14:07 AM
I can only speak for the places I have been, which include Linfield, Whitworth, and obviously LC. Linfield crowd was small when I went there for their game against LC last season, but they were definitely into it. Whitworth obviously had a huge turnout since it was the conference championship, but I will say that the six of us Pio fans that made the trip certaintly equaled the Whitworth noise. As for LC, with increased winning come increased fan turnout and I can certaintly say that last season and this one have seen a bigger, more intense student section.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 14, 2008, 03:12:00 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 02:14:07 AM
I can only speak for the places I have been, which include Linfield, Whitworth, and obviously LC. Linfield crowd was small when I went there for their game against LC last season, but they were definitely into it. Whitworth obviously had a huge turnout since it was the conference championship, but I will say that the six of us Pio fans that made the trip certaintly equaled the Whitworth noise. As for LC, with increased winning come increased fan turnout and I can certaintly say that last season and this one have seen a bigger, more intense student section.

Coincidentally, the only three places I have been are Linfield, WW and LC. I was actually impressed w/ Linfield, considering they were having a bad year the student section was really into it, much better crowd than LC had 3-4 years ago. Honestly, considering it was the conference championship I thought WW was fairly weak...the gym is pretty small and it wasn't full by any means. The LC crowds for the two UPS games at the end of last season were definitely louder and had more energy. But to be fair, if LC isn't winning and contending for a championship then we probably have the deadest gym in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 04:01:33 AM
If you ever have a chance to come watch your team play @UPS, I would really recommend it.  LC will be a huge game in Tacoma at the end of the season.  Memorial Field House gets rocking with lots of energy, and its a great place to watch a game
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 04:25:28 AM
Wow, that's really, really funny.  L&C fans calling ANY Whitworth crowd weak.  If you are referring to last season's conference championship game, the only section of bleachers that was not full was the visitors section right behind the Pioneer bench.

Now, I admire you for making the trip all the way to Spokane to see your team lose, and I remember your group trying hard.  But as much noise as the rest of the Whitworth crowd?  Must be a creative arts major...

And having been to Pamplin four times over the last 15 years, L&C has ALWAYS had the worst fan turnout for the quality of program.  Saturday's Whitworth crowd was really weak by normal standards (400-500), but still more than I've ever seen at Pamplin, including a couple of games that decided NWC championships.  What's the point of having a big set of bleachers when they are never more than 25% full?

Logshow, the UPS community really got behind the Loggers when Bridgland got that program going.  But I remember seeing games when that Field House was dead back in the late 90s.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 14, 2008, 10:59:04 AM
I can only speak for the last 5 years or so, but in that time span its no contest to who has the toughest home court...UPS obviously :-*.  Biggest crowds, best teams, best record.  Done and done.  (once again this is only for the last 5 years)

The race for the first loser ;) looks a little something like this...

2)WW They've always had large crowds when I've been there.  Some of the fans get pretty creative too.  I've always enjoyed the WW atmosphere and they always have very good teams.

3)WU Very tough place to play.  The crowds aren't that big but the drawbridge baskets and rims dont make it easy, plus they almost always have one of the top teams in the NWC.

4)Probably LC, they have kind of a wierd gym with weird lighting.  Not many fans, but almost always tough teams.  Not a fun place to play.

5)NO gym is easy to play in, the road trips are tough in the NWC.  No other gym really stands out as next toughest so I will just say that the rest are all tough places to play.  (It would be Whitman, but their teams are always in the basement)

LC fans-
Dont get too down on your boys, they are a tough team and deserve a chance to get accustomed to playing with that target on their backs.  Let me tell you, it aint easy. 

Last but not least, UPS seems to be happy with just winning right now.  Although they have a nice record and are playing pretty well they are capable of much more.  Dont get me wrong, I'm excited that they are once again a dominant team, but I believe they can throw it in another gear.  If and when that happens...WATCH OUT NWC 8)!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 14, 2008, 11:23:47 AM
Also, when are we gonna get some PLU backers on this board.  If they dont get a couple posters in the next few weeks I'm going to have to start speaking for them I guess....on second thought probably not.  But still, PLU is SICK this year(and this is coming from a UPS guy) where are the fans at ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 02:05:07 PM
I too am suprised there haven't been any PLU posters poking their head out yet...especially since they have started conference so strong.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 02:10:48 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 04:25:28 AM
Wow, that's really, really funny.  L&C fans calling ANY Whitworth crowd weak.  If you are referring to last season's conference championship game, the only section of bleachers that was not full was the visitors section right behind the Pioneer bench.

Now, I admire you for making the trip all the way to Spokane to see your team lose, and I remember your group trying hard.  But as much noise as the rest of the Whitworth crowd?  Must be a creative arts major...

And having been to Pamplin four times over the last 15 years, L&C has ALWAYS had the worst fan turnout for the quality of program.  Saturday's Whitworth crowd was really weak by normal standards (400-500), but still more than I've ever seen at Pamplin, including a couple of games that decided NWC championships.  What's the point of having a big set of bleachers when they are never more than 25% full?

All I can seem to remember is the great Bryan Williams missing quite a few free throws as we yelled "pickleball" at him. Maybe the 6 of us didn't quite equal the level of noise that the 500 + WW fans did, but we were definitely more into it. After all, we drove six hours to see the game. All WW fans had to do was tell their fiancees they would be back in two hours and then walk ten minutes to the gym.

As for the LC crowd being weak, these pictures sure seem like more than 25% of the bleachers are full. Of course I'm no math expert, just a Studio Art major    ;D
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/hhfranks/?action=view&current=bball.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/hhfranks/?action=view&current=bball-1.jpg
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 14, 2008, 03:16:24 PM
I would have to go with Pinecone on the toughest places to play chart..wouldn't say it any differently, especially the GF homecoming..bravo.

Also, I agree that this weekend will be very key in determining WW's chances in conf. this year.  I am not counting on a genie or any other wishes and kisses, just a solid effort by WW, especially Symes who did not play well last year at UPS.  I do wish however, we had UPS Friday.  If we lose to PLU (which we won't) on Friday, winning on Sat would be 2x more difficult.  WW will come prepared and expecting to win both.  And I will see you all there both nights.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 14, 2008, 03:24:13 PM
Wow...didn't mean to get the WW folks all riled up. I am an '07 grad, so can't speak for the 90's, and readily admit my first 3 years we had mediocre teams and the gym was nearly empty. But last season I thought we had strong student support, especially toward the end of the year. LC will never get community support like other teams in the NWC, because there are a lot of things to do in Portland and LC athletics is not high up on most people's list, but as far as students go there was definitely more than 25% attendance last season. Hopefully that will last, but to be honest, it is probably dependent on having winning teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 14, 2008, 03:50:52 PM
Pio I wouldn't advertise that ridiculously small gym on this site..A recruit might see it and end up at UPS or WW.  At least UPS's small house has some style, PLU has the giganto drape, GF is hardwood city, every gym has its own character its the fans that make the difference (and clock operator).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 04:09:19 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 14, 2008, 03:50:52 PM
Pio I wouldn't advertise that ridiculously small gym on this site..A recruit might see it and end up at UPS or WW.  At least UPS's small house has some style, PLU has the giganto drape, GF is hardwood city, every gym has its own character its the fans that make the difference (and clock operator).

Or a recruit might read your comments and think there are only stuck-up assholes at Whitworth and choose any school but that. You are correct that our gym isn't anything special. It is the "fans that make the difference." That was the point of my last post, but you were too busy thinking of a way to take a shot at any non-WW fan to realize that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 14, 2008, 04:12:26 PM
"Pio I wouldn't advertise that ridiculously small gym on this site..A recruit might see it and end up at UPS or WW."
-nwhoops1903

NWC arena capacities as shown on D3 hoops website(yes, I realize the numbers may be off)

UPS- 4000
PLU-3200
GFox- 2750
WU-2600
Pac- 2500
LC-2300
Lin-1900
WW-1620
Whitman-(not shown)

If recruits do indeed choose what school they attend by the number of people that can fit in the gym...WW is in trouble.

...I'm just saying :D

And just for the record, those pics that Pio20 posted looked pretty impressive to me....that gym looked packed!!!  Were those from when UPS played there last season?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 14, 2008, 04:16:31 PM
Winning also drums up support which leads to tougher crowds.  When Linfield had a good run early in the decade, I don't think many visitors like playing at Linfield's Wilson Gym.  Those crowds were rowdy/wild. 

GFU can draw large crowds but their fans are about as intimidating as a 4-year old on a set of big wheels. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 04:31:17 PM
Pio20, I wouldn't let Hoops1903 get you riled up, often his posts seem to attempt to ruffle feathers
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 14, 2008, 04:12:26 PM
And just for the record, those pics that Pio20 posted looked pretty impressive to me....that gym looked packed!!!  Were those from when UPS played there last season?

Yeah it was from the conference playoff game when UPS came into Pamplin to decide who would travel to Whitworth for the title. It was packed and definitely the biggest crowd of the season. I'm not saying we pull those numbers every single game, but I think the "empty gym" days are over, at least while LC is winning and admissions keeps bringing in more "preppy" students who will, in general, care more about sports than your average LC hippie.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 04:33:56 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 04:31:17 PM
Pio20, I wouldn't let Hoops1903 get you riled up, often his posts seem to attempt to ruffle feathers

haha..well I guess he ruffled mine. I'm all for a hearty well-thought out argument, but his posts seem to have different motives. At least the board is lively just like conference play! :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 04:34:27 PM
QuoteI'm not saying we pull those numbers every single game, but I think the "empty gym" days are over, at least while LC is winning and admissions keeps bringing in more "preppy" students who will, in general, care more about sports than your average LC hippie.

lol, I thought that was just a setreotype opposing schools had of LC...reminds me of that Southpark episode
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 04:34:27 PM
QuoteI'm not saying we pull those numbers every single game, but I think the "empty gym" days are over, at least while LC is winning and admissions keeps bringing in more "preppy" students who will, in general, care more about sports than your average LC hippie.

lol, I thought that was just a setreotype opposing schools had of LC...reminds me of that Southpark episode

Oh no, it is definitely true, but there has been a big push towards recruiting more mainstream students. If you're interested, there is an article about it here: http://piolog.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=232%3Ashrooms-incident-sends-students-tripping-over-the-college-administration&Itemid=40
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 04:48:39 PM
NWHoops, have you been to a UPS/WW game in Tacoma yet?  Hopefully most of the student body will be back this weekend for the game, so you can see what a great Logger crowd is like.  I went back to go look at some attendence numbers...

In 05-06 UPS hosted the conference championship game and drew a crowd of 1,975 (don't think that counted students free admission)
their NCAA 1st round game attendence was 2,237 against Oxy.

Last year when WW came to town at the end of the season there were 2,278 in attendence.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:00:09 PM
From the entirely-too-much-time-on-my-hands department:

Average NWC attendance since 2000 (based on what's available on NWCsports.com):
1.  Whitworth - 959
2.  Willamette - 852
3.  Linfield - 773
4.  Puget Sound - 705
5.  Pacific Lutheran - 694
6.  George Fox - 631
7.  Lewis & Clark - 445
8.  Pacific - 402
9.  Whitman - 178

Highest Yearly Attendance figures by school -
George Fox: 1145 in 2004-05
Lewis & Clark: 584 in 199-2000
Linfield: 1005 in 1999-2000
Pacific: 605 in 2003-04
Pacific Lutheran: 1022 in 2003-04
Puget Sound: 1141 in 2005-06
Whitman: 238 in 2004-05
Whitworth: 1205 in 2003-04
Willamette: 1219 in 2003-04

Lowest Yearly Attendance figures by school -
George Fox: 341 in 2007-08
Lewis & Clark: 317 in 2004-05
Linfield: 515 in 2005-06
Pacific: 100 in 1999-2000
Pacific Lutheran: 450 in 2000-01
Puget Sound: 236 in 1999-2000
Whitman: 110 in 2007-08
Whitworth: 838 in 2007-08
Willamette: 436 in 2004-05

You will find that most schools have their best attended years during seasons in which the teams are good, and worst years during bad seasons.  That is natural. 

But I think the numbers do bear out that Whitworth has consistently had the best crowds.  If the raw numbers were available from the 90s, my experience is that those averages would look similar.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:03:10 PM
Pio20, thanks for posting those pictures.  I am glad to see the student body did come out for the game against UPS last season and created a great small college environment.  It makes it more fun for both teams.

According to the NWC website, the attendance at last season's L&C-Whitworth playoff game was 1,450.

Logshow, I am pretty sure all the NWC schools keep totals for fans in the seats, rather than tickets sold.  Students/faculty get in free to the games at all the NWC schools.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:04:50 PM
BTW - I didn't want to go too far and get into standard deviations for those attendance numbers, I am sure there is a math major out there who can run the formula.   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 05:21:29 PM
Are those lowest and highest attendances averages for the season? or single games?

Aren't all these numbers irrelevant though? I was under the impression that there is no "official" count of attendance. I know at LC, students and staff get in free and there isn't anyone at the door counting every person that walks by. As far as I know, the SID guesses the attendance and puts it in the stats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:26:00 PM
Average = per game attendance for that season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 05:42:46 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:00:09 PM
Highest Yearly Attendance figures by school -
George Fox: 1145 in 2004-05

You will find that most schools have their best attended years during seasons in which the teams are good, and worst years during bad seasons.  That is natural. 

George Fox did go 13-3 in conference that season. Shows you the George Fox fans definitely come out in record numbers when they are doing well. They finished 3-13 the season before that! Another thing attendance numbers don't take into account is the road team's fans.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:44:00 PM
As mentioned to Logshow, all the NWC schools let in students and faculty/staff for free, so that is a wash.

As far as relevence, each school can be as accurate as it wants for keeping or estimating attendance.  The NCAA keeps annual attendance figures for all levels, including DIII, so each conference has to make a report based on the numbers provided by the members.  If those numbers are relevent for the NCAA, they should work just as well on this forum.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:45:52 PM
"Another thing attendance numbers don't take into account is the road team's fans."

The do take it into account.  Those figures represent who is in the building, not just home fans in attendance.

To me, that makes Whitworth's averages more impressive.  As the furthest school away from the others, there is rarely a big visiting crowd to inflate the total.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 05:53:21 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 05:45:52 PM
"Another thing attendance numbers don't take into account is the road team's fans."

The do take it into account.  Those figures represent who is in the building, not just home fans in attendance.

To me, that makes Whitworth's averages more impressive.  As the furthest school away from the others, there is rarely a big visiting crowd to inflate the total.

I'm not disputing WW's impressive attendance figures by any means. What I meant by it was that you can't always say higher attendance=more of your fans because there may be a lot of the other team's fans as well. Which, as you point out does make WW more impressive seeing as how far it is from other schools. But in general, if all fans and staff are let in for free, then isn't the "official" attendance nothing more than an estimate by the scorekeeper or the SID?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 14, 2008, 06:14:50 PM
This is not for certain, but I've heard numerous times and from different people who work at UPS that the "official attendance" only counts fans that pay at the door.  That means students and also any friends and family that players put on the free admission list are not counted.  In my opinion, at some of those big games that Logshow mentioned there were way more than 2 grand in attendance.  The gym has been basically packed before and it wouldn't seem that full with only 2,000 people in the gym. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 06:35:27 PM
Sound -

The NCAA tracks attendance (bodies in the building), rather than paid admissions, since many DIII schools let everyone in for free for all games.  Since attendance is what the NWC is supposed to report to the NCAA (and thus includes in the stats), someone at UPS is having trouble following directions.  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 14, 2008, 06:48:14 PM
As someone who worked in the LC sports information department, I was often in charge of putting the attendance number on the box score. To do this, I would simply make up a number and make sure that it didn't end in 5 or 0 so it would seem believable. Maybe there was someone else taking official attendance (I doubt it), but I wouldn't put much credibility in the attendance on box scores.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 14, 2008, 07:01:24 PM
Pios07,

That only reflects on you, not any other school in the NWC or around the country.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 07:07:21 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 14, 2008, 06:48:14 PM
As someone who worked in the LC sports information department, I was often in charge of putting the attendance number on the box score. To do this, I would simply make up a number and make sure that it didn't end in 5 or 0 so it would seem believable. Maybe there was someone else taking official attendance (I doubt it), but I wouldn't put much credibility in the attendance on box scores.

And that, IMHO, is what is wrong with schools in our conference...especially LC.  It seems like the athletic department there just really isn't all that interested in putting forth a good faith effort.  As opposed to UPS and WW who go out of their way to make sure games and everything concerning them run smoothly.  I can't remember the UPS scoring table every having an issue during a game, but it is common place at many other schools (G Fox, PLU, Whitman)  I also think WW does a fine job of game organization, set-up, ect.
LCPios07, don't take this post as being critical of you, its directed at the LC Athletic department as a whole.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 07:10:16 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 04:34:27 PM
QuoteI'm not saying we pull those numbers every single game, but I think the "empty gym" days are over, at least while LC is winning and admissions keeps bringing in more "preppy" students who will, in general, care more about sports than your average LC hippie.

lol, I thought that was just a setreotype opposing schools had of LC...reminds me of that Southpark episode

Oh no, it is definitely true, but there has been a big push towards recruiting more mainstream students. If you're interested, there is an article about it here: http://piolog.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=232%3Ashrooms-incident-sends-students-tripping-over-the-college-administration&Itemid=40

Pio20 I read the article, it was pretty interesting.  I assume it appeared in the student run paper on campus.  My favortie part of the article was when it said "LC is still ranked fifth in "reefer madness" by the Princeton Review" that cracked me up :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 14, 2008, 07:25:34 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 14, 2008, 06:48:14 PM
As someone who worked in the LC sports information department, I was often in charge of putting the attendance number on the box score. To do this, I would simply make up a number and make sure that it didn't end in 5 or 0 so it would seem believable. Maybe there was someone else taking official attendance (I doubt it), but I wouldn't put much credibility in the attendance on box scores.

I believe that this is a fairly common method of attendance-taking around the country.  Perhaps not in the NWC, and certainly there are many, many schools around the nation that take great pains to make accurate headcounts, but I have heard about the SWAG method being used in schools all over.  It's just not an important issue to a lot of schools, and for those schools the reported figures should be taken with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 08:33:58 PM
Can I at least become a starter now since my question about toughest place to play has went on to stir up all these posts?  ;D :D ;) :) ::)

Let me throw another question out there, maybe it will lead to another large number of posts.

Who is the conference's best player?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 14, 2008, 09:22:08 PM
Oops...didn't mean for my comment to be an invitation to rip on our athletic department. While things certainly aren't perfect, and I have been as critical as anyone of the Ath. Dept. as Pio20 can attest to, I think on the whole they do a really good job and have the place moving in the right direction. Sports at LC have grown a ton in the last five years.

To move away from anymore LC bashing, I'll try the top player in the league. I thought the big guy for UPS, Foster, was really tough in the 2 games I saw him last year. UPS is a lot like LC in that it is hard to pick out one guy though. He is on maybe the worst team, but Faidley (sp?) at Whitman I remember hitting 3's from all over the place last year and I think he had 28 against the Pios Saturday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 10:36:02 PM
"It seems like the athletic department there just really isn't all that interested in putting forth a good faith effort.  As opposed to UPS and WW who go out of their way to make sure games and everything concerning them run smoothly."

I don't think it's fair to say the LC athletic department doesn't care. They definitely all love their jobs and try to do the best they can. Unless you go to LC I don't think you can understand the tall mountain they have ahead of them when it comes to how valued sports are there. We don't have storied programs or powerhouses, except for maybe crew and women's cross country, which let's admit, isn't going to draw too many people. But the athletic department is trying...really hard. For example, this year they renovated Pamplin; putting in a brand new playing surface in the gym, put in all new equipment in the weight room, and added video rooms, among other things. They definitely have their shortcomings, but I wouldn't take their handling off attendance numbers as a strong sign of how much they care or don't care. The question still remains how do other schools take attendance at games? We have established students get in free, so do they count people at the door. Do they mark a tally on a sheet? Anyone? How do they do it at UPS? WW?


As far as best players in the NWC, Scott McDaniels has given PLU a big lift. He averages 21 points a game,  and leads the NWC in rebounding, and is second in blocked shots.   

In other news, as expected, LC drops out of the new top 25. Only got 10 votes. Ouch. Maybe we will play better now. UPS moves up two spots to #7. Thought we might see WW get a few votes, but then I remembered the far West gets no love.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 14, 2008, 10:59:59 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 10:36:02 PM
In other news, as expected, LC drops out of the new top 25. Only got 10 votes. Ouch. Maybe we will play better now. UPS moves up two spots to #7. Thought we might see WW get a few votes, but then I remembered the far West gets no love.

Yeah, I was a little surprised by that too.  I had Whitworth on my list of teams that might move into the top 25, so I certainly expected more than 0 votes.  The voters may have taken a wait-and-see approach, at least until after Saturday.  UPS seems to have a steady supply of poll love, but it's a little hard to come by outside of Tacoma. 

Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 10:36:02 PMThe question still remains how do other schools take attendance at games? We have established students get in free, so do they count people at the door. Do they mark a tally on a sheet? Anyone?

I realize you probably are only asking about other NWC schools, so feel free to ignore me.  (As if I could prevent that anyway! :D)  I've seen about every possible method, everything from issuing sequentially numbered tickets to all comers, paid and unpaid, to use of a clicker at the door, to a student with a tally sheet, to the SID attempting a manual headcount at the scorer's table, to the SWAG method, and even to a completely fabricated number with no connection to reality (at least that was alleged to have occurred as a regular practice at one school.)  All but a very few schools are understaffed and underfunded in the SID area, so if they give a half-hearted effort at attendance, which rarely seems to be considered an important function, I'm generally willing to give them a pass for it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2008, 11:03:40 PM
"I've seen about every possible method, everything from issuing sequentially numbered tickets to all comers, paid and unpaid, to use of a clicker at the door, to a student with a tally sheet, to the SID attempting a manual headcount at the scorer's table, to the SWAG method, and even to a completely fabricated number with no connection to reality (at least that was alleged to have occurred as a regular practice at one school.)  All but a very few schools are understaffed and underfunded in the SID area, so if they give a half-hearted effort at attendance, which rarely seems to be considered an important function, I'm generally willing to give them a pass for it."

Thanks for the insight! Seems like the clicker at the door is simple and effective...at least as long as you don't have too many doors! :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 11:38:23 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 14, 2008, 08:33:58 PM
Can I at least become a starter now since my question about toughest place to play has went on to stir up all these posts?  ;D :D ;) :) ::)

Let me throw another question out there, maybe it will lead to another large number of posts.

Who is the conference's best player?

NWCer, you only have 111 more posts till you get starter status!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 11:43:28 PM
UPS has gotten lots of love in the polls, but they continue to win, so they are definately deserving it.  Wasn't suprised that LC dropped out.  Was wondering if WW or PLU might show it in getting votes.  Like David said, its probably a wait and see for both.  If PLU wins both games this weekend I could definately see them as "getting votes"

Wow I can't believe I just said that!  So to David Collinge or any other D3 aficionado...has PLU ever gotten votes in a D3 hoops poll or made the top 25?  We might see a debutant you can write about in the news and notes. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 14, 2008, 11:50:59 PM
Never thought I would see this day, but LC even getting 10 votes is them living off a pre-season rep. I think out of all other NWC teams besides UPS, PLU is the most deserving of consideration. A win at LC and their only conference loss was in 2OT to the #7 team in the country. I would think WW might have gotten a few votes as well. We will definitely know more about the league's pecking order after this weekend's games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 15, 2008, 02:07:38 AM
I have never been in the LC gym but I will stand by my obsevation that the gym looks small in those pictures.  I hate to claim credit but I think my small gym comment started all this attendance talk.  All this attendance talk (so hot).  Can we get back to hoops?

Pio I am part of the vast Eastern Washington conspiracy and my motives are simply to promote and support my favorite NWC team--feathers ruffled or worse, but certainly not trying to be the "stuck-up asshole" as you so eloquently scribed.  Temper temper.

Logshow, I have been to every gym but LC over the past 5-6 years and every UPS WW game in Tacoma (reg or Playoffs) over that same period.  Great place to watch a game and nearly all those games were fantastic to be a part of.

The polls are a tough thing to climb for NWC teams and even harder for 2 NWC teams be in at end of conference schedule.  WW must win both this weekend to enter, however a good loss (sick) at UPS and a win at PLU might also get some consideration. 

Still too early in my book to call best player in conf.  After 8-9 games it may be obvious, it may not.

I think the conf reg season champ will have 3 losses this year.  Now there's a thread.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 15, 2008, 11:12:04 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 11:43:28 PM
Wow I can't believe I just said that!  So to David Collinge or any other D3 aficionado...has PLU ever gotten votes in a D3 hoops poll or made the top 25?  We might see a debutant you can write about in the news and notes. :)

PLU got votes (2) in one poll, way back in the 2001-02 season (week 2.)  With a 7-5 record, I'm not holding my breath about them breaking into the 2007-08 poll anytime soon.

GFU, Pacific, and Whitman are the only NWC teams never to appear in the poll voting.  Everyone else (except PLU) has cracked the Top 25 at some point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 15, 2008, 02:34:48 PM
Thanks for the Info.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: rms78645 on January 15, 2008, 02:49:57 PM
Does it matter that 4 of PLU's 5 losses came without Brandeberry and the other loss was a doulbe ot loss to UPS?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2008, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: rms78645 on January 15, 2008, 02:49:57 PM
Does it matter that 4 of PLU's 5 losses came without Brandeberry and the other loss was a doulbe ot loss to UPS?

All-time winningest d3 team Wittenberg is 8-5 but received no votes.  In their case, a 1-5 start has totally overshadowed a current 7-game winning streak.  If PLU can make it to 11 or 12 and 5, those sorts of mitigating factors will become relevant, but no one bothers to take a close look at a 7-5 team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 15, 2008, 04:04:47 PM
LC is going to have trouble climbing back into the top 25 as well. I doubt they would have gotten in at all if they weren't there to start the season off. Because of the two losses to DI teams, they were up against the wall with two losses early. Now, standing at 8-4 with only 10 votes, it will take them at least a few weeks (assuming they win all their games) to climb back in. Of course, more important than that is winning conference.

Willamette (2-2) heads to Linfield (3-1) tonight. My prediction: Linfield wins easily 84-71. A Willamette upset would be big though, as it would drop both teams to two losses and Linfield would drop form the top tier of the standings. Anyone else have thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: rms78645 on January 15, 2008, 04:22:21 PM
While I'm sure being ranked in the top 25 would be thrilling I am more concerned with winning games.  I am new to the program and I am excited with the "winning attitude" that I see this year. Last year it was like we just didn't know how to win games. We just couldn't seem to pull off close games. We are doing a better job at that this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 15, 2008, 05:23:00 PM
Quote from: rms78645 on January 15, 2008, 04:22:21 PM
While I'm sure being ranked in the top 25 would be thrilling I am more concerned with winning games.  I am new to the program and I am excited with the "winning attitude" that I see this year. Last year it was like we just didn't know how to win games. We just couldn't seem to pull off close games. We are doing a better job at that this year.

I would agree that PLU is much improved, I don't think they truly know how to win games.  They have a history of giving away games at the end.  They were up on UPS, but couldn't close the deal.  Almost every conference game is close so we will see what kind of team PLU has in the coming weeks.  This weekend is huge for PLU, especially if they can hold off WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 15, 2008, 05:24:20 PM
So there you go SoundLogs, a PLU poster...Ask and thou shall receive
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 15, 2008, 07:01:20 PM
"So there you go SoundLogs, a PLU poster...Ask and thou shall receive"

-Logshow

Thats awesome!  It's almost like Christmas all over again!

"Does it matter that 4 of PLU's 5 losses came without Brandeberry and the other loss was a doulbe ot loss to UPS?"

-rms,

You do have a good point about PLU's loses this year(although I think you guys are almost better without Berryberry's cause he slows the team down) and I was VERY impressed with how the Lutes played at UPS as I have mentioned many times.  However,I think Logshow brings up a good point, PLU is unable to slam the door shut on teams.  If you get WW this weekend and crush Whitman you'll be on the right track to getting some national votes though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 15, 2008, 07:24:16 PM
Glad to see that there is a PLU fan on the board now.  Welcome RMS, the more the merrier.

But that is the natural ebb and flow of these posting boards.  As teams do well, you hear from their fans.  If Linfield wins a few more, I am sure we'll see a mirgration of their myriad football followers over this way.  We started seeing L&C fans show up again last year.

At the same time, we haven't heard from the regular Willamette followers in quite a while.

I respect NWCfan for being here for his Boxers through thick and thin (mostly thin).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 15, 2008, 07:28:45 PM
As far as this weekend goes, it is a tough test for Whitworth.  The Pirates have struggled in Tacoma in recent years, getting swept in both 2005 and 2006.  Whitworth has not won both over there during Hayford's tenure.

Also was reminded today that Whitworth is actually playing three road games in five days (at Whitman next Tuesday).  Tough stretch.
Title: Puget Sound vulnerable?
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 15, 2008, 08:09:30 PM
I watch quite a bit of UPS basketball and this year's team looks really, really good.  The question for me is whether the league is now so comfortable with the press that it's not so effective against NWC opponents.  In the first few seasons, most opponents in the NWC would eventually just melt down.  Two big three-to-five minute runs by UPS  would end the game.  We've seen this against some non-NWC opponents this year (see Cal-State Stanislaus, down by 30 after 12 minutes of basketball and not knowing what hit them), but conference opponents seem to have worked hard to match what the Loggers do and seem to be successfully standing up to the pressure.

I think that the PLU game was a case in point.  PLU has a nice team, but I think that if UPS played them straight up the Loggers would beat them easily.  In my opinion, UPS is too athletic on the front line and at the point for the Lutes.  PLU's ability to break the press repeatedly for easy buckets (and lots of 3s--those guys can shoot) made them competitive with what I think of as a superior team.  The Lutes did have some breakdowns under the pressure, but for most of the game they were torturing UPS.   I've seen games over the years where the pressure didn't work as well as the Loggers hoped, but I hadn't seen a game where it seemed to me that the other team was actually better off because UPS was coming at them with the kitchen sink.   

Linfield unfolded the same way, except in this game UPS gave up on the full court, manic pressure for good portions of the game....the tempo was as slow for a Logger game as I've seen in four years or so...It will be an interesting year in the NWC, and interesting to see how the Ls adjust to the good challenges solid competition is throwing up every night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2008, 08:12:13 PM
Welcome to the boards, p's'fan!

Good post!  +1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 15, 2008, 08:50:08 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 15, 2008, 07:24:16 PM
Glad to see that there is a PLU fan on the board now.  Welcome RMS, the more the merrier.

But that is the natural ebb and flow of these posting boards.  As teams do well, you hear from their fans.  If Linfield wins a few more, I am sure we'll see a mirgration of their myriad football followers over this way.  We started seeing L&C fans show up again last year.

At the same time, we haven't heard from the regular Willamette followers in quite a while.

I respect NWCfan for being here for his Boxers through thick and thin (mostly thin).
Hey pineconefan, I've been here since the beginning of the season. A lone voice in the wilderness. :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 15, 2008, 11:37:40 PM
You are right CAWCDAD, you've been here all along this season.

My apologies.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 01:02:38 AM
PS-fan welcome to the board!  It always nice to have another poster...especially when its a Logger!  This board has been really lively this year...its been great!


I think your post was interesting and hit on some good points.  I felt that way last year that teams now seem to have good strategies for breaking UPS' press and when that happens lay-ups result.  I don't think that UPS can go crazy and trap all game long.  Don't get me wrong, I love the pressure, but I think we could do without the traps.  The Loggers don't seem to get much out of them, other then giving up a numbers situation on the defensive end.  I would like UPS to switch up their pressure more.  Trap hard for 5 mins, don't trap for 5, play half court d for 5, or change strategies whether its a make or miss or FT, ect  .  I think that would keep the opposing team guessing and not let them get comfortable.

UPS is too athletic and too good defensively to be giving up easy buckets.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 16, 2008, 01:07:55 AM
The Cats move to 4 - 1 in NWC play with an 84 - 78 win over the B'cats. Built the lead up to 9 and 10 several times and would let Willamette back into it. Held on at the end.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 01:16:05 AM
4-1 is pretty impressive...especially for where Linfield was at last year.  They have a good team there and their coach has them playing hard.  It must be nice seeing Linfield doing well so you don't have to spend all your time over on the football board :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 16, 2008, 01:17:07 AM
Big difference from 3-2 and 4-1! They already beat WW and played UPS close until the final minute. Are they legit? Thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 01:25:28 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 16, 2008, 01:17:07 AM
Big difference from 3-2 and 4-1! They already beat WW and played UPS close until the final minute. Are they legit? Thoughts?

Its seeming like it more and more.  When does LC have them?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 16, 2008, 01:27:21 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 01:25:28 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 16, 2008, 01:17:07 AM
Big difference from 3-2 and 4-1! They already beat WW and played UPS close until the final minute. Are they legit? Thoughts?

Its seeming like it more and more.  When does LC have them?

We have them at home on January 26th, one day after UPS comes to Pamplin.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 16, 2008, 01:35:01 AM
Pio nice prediction and another good win for Linfield.  I think WW will avoid the sweep Pinecone.  I am always nervous about looking past PLU and then slipping up which I think might have happened in 06.  PLU being improved makes the trip to Tacoma tough for all conf teams, but might help WW be truly focused for Friday.  

UPS looks good but I agree, the tempo (defensively) appears to be less frantic.  Logshow, is UPS as deep this year as their (that) system requires?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 16, 2008, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 01:16:05 AM
4-1 is pretty impressive...especially for where Linfield was at last year.  They have a good team there and their coach has them playing hard.  It must be nice seeing Linfield doing well so you don't have to spend all your time over on the football board :)
I lurked around the hoops board a bit last year, but was unable to see any games. Being able to see and photograph four of the teams (shameless plug - have you guys taken a look at them?) during the OOC games got me to spend more time here. I'm glad I am. I have learned a great deal from you guys. There was a Pio fan I met briefly at the LC - Menlo football game that said he spend his time on this board rather than the football board, who are you?
Quote from: Pio20 on January 16, 2008, 01:17:07 AM
Big difference from 3-2 and 4-1! They already beat WW and played UPS close until the final minute. Are they legit? Thoughts?
Thay are good but I do not think they will beat WW in Spokane. The game with UPS in Mac will be tight again, but I think the Loggers will prevail. After I saw LC play, I would have thought that they would beat the Cats twice, now I'm not so sure. My father, a former H.S. basketball coach and St. Mary's season ticket holder, saw Linfield against East Bay and was impressed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Do-Work25 on January 16, 2008, 12:30:17 PM
PugetSoundFan - I agree with your earlier statement. I think that the NWC coaches have finally been able to recruit players that are able to break down and beat the UPS style of play, making games more difficult for UPS.

I've been able to watch a couple UPS games this year and they have struggled when their press has easily been broken, fortunately they have talented players and have pulled out their close games. Question remains: is it time for a change up?


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 16, 2008, 04:16:54 PM
"Question remains: is it time for a change up?"

Do-Work, welcome to the board.  Your question reminds me that fans are really funny.  Not very long ago, UPS was really bad in basketball.

Your team has had five great/good years in a row, thanks to the system installed by Bridgeland/Lunt, and the Loggers are currently the only unbeaten NWC team and ranked 7th in the country.  Yet you ask the question, is it time for a change?

I don't mean this as an attack on your analysis, because you make some solid points.  Like I said, its a reminder that "fan" is short for "fanatic." ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 16, 2008, 05:18:35 PM
Thanks for the love Pineconefan, true fans have to be there for the thick and thin, especially for the thin, everyone comes around when it's "thick".  I think my Boxers though will get both the Hot Wildcats and Fox at home this weekend, and then be sitting at 3-3 and it won't be quite as "thin", lots of NWC play left, looking forward to it.  Need to get out and see some more venues, all the talk about other home courts has me excited.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 11:53:12 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 16, 2008, 01:35:01 AM
Pio nice prediction and another good win for Linfield.  I think WW will avoid the sweep Pinecone.  I am always nervous about looking past PLU and then slipping up which I think might have happened in 06.  PLU being improved makes the trip to Tacoma tough for all conf teams, but might help WW be truly focused for Friday.  

UPS looks good but I agree, the tempo (defensively) appears to be less frantic.  Logshow, is UPS as deep this year as their (that) system requires?

I would actually say that UPS has more depth this year.  It seems like almost anyone on the team is interchangable.  We have a lot of height on the wings and can brig more in from the bench.  We do lack the true size down low though...I am taking weight and strength not height.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 11:59:28 PM
Quote from: cawcdad on January 16, 2008, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 16, 2008, 01:16:05 AM
4-1 is pretty impressive...especially for where Linfield was at last year.  They have a good team there and their coach has them playing hard.  It must be nice seeing Linfield doing well so you don't have to spend all your time over on the football board :)
I lurked around the hoops board a bit last year, but was unable to see any games. Being able to see and photograph four of the teams (shameless plug - have you guys taken a look at them?) during the OOC games got me to spend more time here. I'm glad I am. I have learned a great deal from you guys. There was a Pio fan I met briefly at the LC - Menlo football game that said he spend his time on this board rather than the football board, who are you?
Quote from: Pio20 on January 16, 2008, 01:17:07 AM
Big difference from 3-2 and 4-1! They already beat WW and played UPS close until the final minute. Are they legit? Thoughts?
Thay are good but I do not think they will beat WW in Spokane. The game with UPS in Mac will be tight again, but I think the Loggers will prevail. After I saw LC play, I would have thought that they would beat the Cats twice, now I'm not so sure. My father, a former H.S. basketball coach and St. Mary's season ticket holder, saw Linfield against East Bay and was impressed.

Well either way we are happy to have you on the basketball board...I enjoy the conversations and like how this board has picked up.  Its much better to have many different perspectives...instead of me just talking to SoundLogs.

You are definately right about Linfield giving UPS a real test in McMinville. I don't want to look too far down the schedule but that game scares me. Linfiled have give UPS a run for their money every year there. It is quite interesting, becase when Linfield had some down years UPS would hang a 35-40 point win on Linfield at home, then travel down there and struggle to nose out a victory in OT.  Now linfield is MUCH improved so I don't know if we will catch breaks this year.  Its something about Ted Wilson Gym, it is definately not Logger friendly :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 12:01:49 AM
Quote from: Do-Work25 on January 16, 2008, 12:30:17 PM
PugetSoundFan - I agree with your earlier statement. I think that the NWC coaches have finally been able to recruit players that are able to break down and beat the UPS style of play, making games more difficult for UPS.

I've been able to watch a couple UPS games this year and they have struggled when their press has easily been broken, fortunately they have talented players and have pulled out their close games. Question remains: is it time for a change up?




Do-Work, welcome to the board!  I always like another Logger fan!  Are you suggesting UPS has work-to-do? :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 03:07:30 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 16, 2008, 04:16:54 PM
"Question remains: is it time for a change up?"

Do-Work, welcome to the board.  Your question reminds me that fans are really funny.  Not very long ago, UPS was really bad in basketball.

Your team has had five great/good years in a row, thanks to the system installed by Bridgeland/Lunt, and the Loggers are currently the only unbeaten NWC team and ranked 7th in the country.  Yet you ask the question, is it time for a change?

I don't mean this as an attack on your analysis, because you make some solid points.  Like I said, its a reminder that "fan" is short for "fanatic." ;)

I may be wrong I think what Do-Work is saying is that the feeling is that the press is not nearly as effective as it has been in years past.  Teams seem to be getting better and better at dealing with the full court pressure.  Its tough to win games when UPS is allowing 60-65% FG each game, the other team is laying up the ball all game.  If you coud have watched the UPS/PLU you would have known what Do-Work was refering to.  For 30mins of the game PLU got whatever they wanted offensively and found themselves up double digits with 10 to go. Only then when UPS buckled down on their half court defense could they make a run and win the game. Granted PLU just died from the pace of the game.  Betting that the other team is going to die and that your team has enough gas left in the tank seems pretty risky to me.  I guess that I would just rather not play from behind.

As with most schemes, it needs to be altered every now and then to keep the opponents honest, and now after 5 years it may be time for some adjustments.  Do-Work might be concerned about another late season melt down like last year.  It would be good to see UPS mix it up some more with some different kind of defenses.  Even though UPS doesn't show it much...their half court d is pretty underrated.

Or maybe its just being fanatical  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Do-Work25 on January 17, 2008, 10:26:36 AM
LogShow- thank you for helping explain my thoughts. Guess that is why a JVer has to look to a starter for help sometimes huh?  ;)

LogShow was on point with my posing question of switching things up. I've had the opportunity to watch the NWC games for the last several years. UPS and their system is hard to stop - no question. But now that the NWC is stronger and has adjusted...as observers witnessed in the UPS/PLU... UPS needs to have more than one approach to the game, that's what makes a team unstoppable is their ability to be versatile.

UPS is a very talented team this year, and agree that they have a VERY deep bench. Kraul/Foster do a great job inside for the loggers - but call me old fashioned - I miss the presence and play of a true post the logger team has had the last few years. No big post = a bit of a struggle for the Loggers...aka PLU game and stopping McDaniels.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2008, 11:52:59 AM
Welcome dowork25!

I think you are right on point with your comments.  This was actually a topic of discussion before the season started.  I think that a more versatile approach and the ability to switch from full court to trapping to half court pressure will be a big key to UPS success this year.  They certainly have the talent to be a great team, but the NWC has really figured out some of the short comings in the press and have exploited it accordingly.  Luckily the Logs have been able to fight through some second half deficits with their talent, hustle, and confidence. 

As for a major post presence.  I go back and forth with this one.  You're right in that the Loggers dont have a 6'8 or 6'9 power player down low, but at the same time they haven't had a guy like that in a long time...even in their sweet 16 and elite 8 runs.  Their team is meant to run and gun, as well as put as much pressure on the ball as possible on defense, it seems to me a big guy would bog down their style of play.  At the same time its nice to have a guy or two that weigh over 200 lbs :-\ on the roster, especially to bang with the big boys of the midwest(mcdaniels is nothing compared to some of those guys) when it gets to be tourney time.  I think there are definite pros and cons to both sides.  Anybody else have thoughts on this....Logshow?  ....dowork?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 17, 2008, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2008, 11:52:59 AM
As for a major post presence.  I go back and forth with this one.  You're right in that the Loggers dont have a 6'8 or 6'9 power player down low, but at the same time they haven't had a guy like that in a long time...even in their sweet 16 and elite 8 runs.  Their team is meant to run and gun, as well as put as much pressure on the ball as possible on defense, it seems to me a big guy would bog down their style of play.  At the same time its nice to have a guy or two that weigh over 200 lbs :-\ on the roster, especially to bang with the big boys of the midwest(mcdaniels is nothing compared to some of those guys) when it gets to be tourney time.  I think there are definite pros and cons to both sides.  Anybody else have thoughts on this....Logshow?  ....dowork?

At LC we haven't had a "big man" for quite a while now. Our tallest player is 6'7'' and he rarely plays. We basically have five guards on the court at all times. Clearly that hurts sometimes with rebounding and D in the paint, but I think if you play to your style enough then you can have success. LC may not be that big, but we do have the leading shot blocker in the NWC, Gene Rivera. He is "long" and athletic and has an amazing sense of timing. I think that is really all you need, and he fits with the rest of the team well. He even shoots threes. From what I've seen of UPS I think a true big man would slow them down. As far as I can remember, when they came to Pamplin last season, they pressed for the first half and then switched on and off in the second half (perhaps because we were ahead at that point). Do they really mind givig up layups though? Doesn't that mean they can just get the ball back sooner and go jack up a three? :) Someone referred to their style of play as the "Grinell" sytle, in which you basically press hard, take the first shot you get and sub out players very often. Do the UPS fans agree on that one? Didn't seem to me that UPS is quite that intense, but perhaps they have some Grinell elements.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 01:44:07 PM
The only Grinnell element that UPS has is that fact that they press.  Otherwise the two teams are quite different.  UPS actually cares about playing defense instead of just going for a steal then giving up an uncontested lay-up.  Grinnell has positions like desiginated passer, rebounder, and shooter and thats there one job on the floor.  UPS doesn't cast that many 3's anymore and that's probably a good thing.  The dynamic of the Logger team has changed from the beginning of their run, a bunch of guards who can all shoot the 3 and a couple strong posts, to a team full of big guys who play on the primeter.  This team is much too athletic to settle for 3's.  Pio20 you should know a thing or two about jacking up 3's, thats all LC has done over the past few years with Winchester, Wells, Robinowitz, and Bergren.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 01:59:38 PM
As for the post situation...

I don't think UPS can find a 6'9 post that could move good enough to play their fast tempo.  If a guy that big has any talent the upper divisions usually snatch them up.  If UPS is lucky maybe one could fall through the cracks but he will be skinny and slender like Foster, and have a tough time stopping the other teams post.  Or maybe the difference between being 6'9 and 6'7 is great enough where is would make a difference.  UPS has plenty of height, but I think that they are lacking in the weight category. The heaviest guy listed on the roster is Pinkney @215 then Foster @210.  To any of the UPS posters...do you think Pinkey could do a better job guarding the post?  He seems to get lost pretty easily on the primeter, and does have a good timing and a knack for blocking shots.  Maybe he would have done better on McDaniels.  It will be interesting to see how the Logs post d does this weekend against Symes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2008, 02:08:07 PM
 :D :D :DThe Loggers definitely don't utilize the Grinnell system.  As Logshow said, we press and they press, thats about where the similarities end.  

And now that we start discussing other teams and their big guys it kind of made me realize nobody in the NWC really has a true "big man."  I know mcdanials is a very effective post player but he's only 6'6, I'm not sure what he weighs but he's not that big.  No team has a guy that's 6'7, 6'8, 6'9 and 250.  Maybe that's just how our league is, it's very guard dominated.  Who's the last "big guy" that actually put up numbers and was a good player in this league.   And I'm not talking about the 7 footers from Linfield that couldnt walk a chew gum at the same time without falling over.  LC used to have a couple big guys that were very tough, Oriard and Spiaer(i think), they were both about 6'8 or so.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2008, 02:14:23 PM
Logshow,

I know Pinkney and Foster are listed as 215 and 210 respectively, but do you really believe that ??? :D ;).  They are both more like 195/200lbs, I know cause I've asked them before.  And you are right the bulk factor is more of a problem than the height factor.  I do know that Krauel, Foster, and Pinkney are all tough players(especially Krauel) but when guys are MUCH bigger than them it gets pretty tough.  Honestly, I think Krauel is the best post D guy we have.  And I dont think Symes will be a big deal because although he's pretty good he's just as skinny as the UPS big boys.

Maybe we are running this topic into the ground too much, but it does make for a good discussioin.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2008, 02:08:07 PM
:D :D :DThe Loggers definitely don't utilize the Grinnell system.  As Logshow said, we press and they press, thats about where the similarities end.  

And now that we start discussing other teams and their big guys it kind of made me realize nobody in the NWC really has a true "big man."  I know mcdanials is a very effective post player but he's only 6'6, I'm not sure what he weighs but he's not that big.  No team has a guy that's 6'7, 6'8, 6'9 and 250.  Maybe that's just how our league is, it's very guard dominated.  Who's the last "big guy" that actually put up numbers and was a good player in this league.   And I'm not talking about the 7 footers from Linfield that couldnt walk a chew gum at the same time without falling over.  LC used to have a couple big guys that were very tough, Oriard and Spiaer(i think), they were both about 6'8 or so.  


I heard that those guys were just monsters...LC sure was tough back then with them and Scott Davis.  I think Metius also played with them.  I think he was like 6'7 but pretty slender.  He might have been more of a priemeter player, but he did throw down a dunk or two.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 17, 2008, 02:23:01 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 01:44:07 PM
Pio20 you should know a thing or two about jacking up 3's, thats all LC has done over the past few years with Winchester, Wells, Robinowitz, and Bergren.

Don't forget Toboni!  :D He likes to toss it up there on occasion as well. It's gotten better this year though. I remember going to a game two years ago where the Pios had a 2 on 1 fast break and Wells literally went straight to the three point line instead of going for the easy layup. That's LC basketball for ya!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2008, 02:29:54 PM
 :D ;) Thanks Oxybob, I kind of figured you'd be here pretty quick to clear that up for everybody.  I know how much you liked watching Redlands play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 17, 2008, 02:38:51 PM
I think it is pretty obvious that LC recruited directly w/ UPS press in mind. All the Pios can handle the basketball, which helps combat the pressure. I'm sure more schools around the league have changed their focus in order to try and catch up with what UPS has done.
Also in terms of just jacking threes up, I think both teams are better when their offenses are based off penetration instead. LC definitely has the most success when the offense revolvs around Tillery then when everyone just stands outside the three point line. That was really a big difference between last year and the previous few seasons when the Pios were an 8-8 team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 17, 2008, 02:48:48 PM
Talking about this weekend's games, I think Friday at Fox will tell a lot about the Pios. Even though GF is 0-4 they have been close in every game, if LC plays like they did last weekend they could easily lose. If the Pios play up to their potential they should get the win, and then have four straight at Pamplin to try and get a win streak going. The GF game should tell a lot about who the real LC is this year.
Obviously the biggest games are in Tacoma (WW/PLU, WW/UPS)...the weekend should start to seperate the contenders from pretenders.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 17, 2008, 03:02:35 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 17, 2008, 02:48:48 PM
Obviously the biggest games are in Tacoma (WW/PLU, WW/UPS)...the weekend should start to seperate the contenders from pretenders.

I see both these games coming down to the wire.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 17, 2008, 03:29:38 PM
"I may be wrong I think what Do-Work is saying is that the feeling is that the press is not nearly as effective as it has been in years past. "

Logshow, it just strikes me as really funny that UPS is 11-1 (unbeaten vs. D3), ranked 7th, 4-0 in the NWC (only unbeaten) and calling for change.

You guys can make a strong arguement for having the most talent throughout the lineup in the league.  Maybe the run and gun style is what attracts that talent?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 17, 2008, 03:31:23 PM
"The Loggers remind me of the Dick Harter Oregon teams of the '70s. " - OB

That comparison is a good one.  I also see strong resemblence to the Arkansas teams of the mid 1990s (40 minutes of Hell).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2008, 03:46:27 PM
Pinecone,

I dont think we(logger fans) are saying that the team isn't very talented or not playing well.  In fact, I think they are doing great, and much improved from last year.  However, having been to many of the games this year its becoming apparent that NWC teams are figuring the Loggers style of play out.  It seems to me that UPS can only dig themselves out of second half deficits so many times before it catches up to them.  If they took a more conservative approach for portions of the game (I think logshow, dowork, etc would agree with me) I believe it could take care of some of their problems.  Especially giving up so many easy layups.  If Lunt decided that he wanted to stick with the EXACT same game plan as they do now, I think they'd still have a great year.  But, if they tweaked(not dramatically changed) a few things they would blow teams out instead of having come from behind wins becuase they are much more talented individually. 

Plus its just my point of view, I could be way off.  I'm just commenting on what I've seen thus far :-\. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formerhooper on January 17, 2008, 04:37:44 PM
Ups's style caught the league by surprise some years ago.  It is basically an "I have better players than you" style of playing.  If you ran the same style with Willamette's players or that of Whitmans, they would lose every game by 50.  The league has caught up to UPS in a sense that the other schools have figured they need better guards to compete.  The only problem is that UPS has stockpiled good guards, and oh by the way Foster is the best player period in the league.  Bridgeland had it figured out.  I think in a few years you will really see what UPS is about when all of Bridgeland's guys (Bridgeland is now the head coach of Pepperdine by the way) graduate.  That junior class is a very good one and they seemed to have run off the only seed that kinda brought them down, although I cannot remember his name(delone maybe?).  Everything comes down to getting better players to offest the other team's better players and UPS has players on their second five that would start for any team in this league.  Whitworth has a chance because they are big strong and talented.  They play like men.  Lewis & Clark can beat them because they have guys who can handle the pressure that UPS gives and enough good players to offest those of UPS.  Linfield always gives Linfield trouble because they always have straight up athletes who play like football players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 17, 2008, 03:29:38 PM
"I may be wrong I think what Do-Work is saying is that the feeling is that the press is not nearly as effective as it has been in years past. "

Logshow, it just strikes me as really funny that UPS is 11-1 (unbeaten vs. D3), ranked 7th, 4-0 in the NWC (only unbeaten) and calling for change.

You guys can make a strong arguement for having the most talent throughout the lineup in the league.  Maybe the run and gun style is what attracts that talent?

Pinecone, I would agree that the style probably does attract players.  But another part of it is the success that UPS has had over the past 5 years.  And don't forget Lunt, I have heard that he is a pretty good recuriter.  This is were the younger age might actually help.  A young energetic coach who can relate to his players.

And as far as the press...not an overhaul, just adjustments :).  Its tough to watch a team give up layups for most of the game.  I think DoWork is looking more long term
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 05:09:27 PM
Quote from: formerhooper on January 17, 2008, 04:37:44 PM
Ups's style caught the league by surprise some years ago.  It is basically an "I have better players than you" style of playing.  If you ran the same style with Willamette's players or that of Whitmans, they would lose every game by 50.  The league has caught up to UPS in a sense that the other schools have figured they need better guards to compete.  The only problem is that UPS has stockpiled good guards, and oh by the way Foster is the best player period in the league.  Bridgeland had it figured out.  I think in a few years you will really see what UPS is about when all of Bridgeland's guys (Bridgeland is now the head coach of Pepperdine by the way) graduate.  That junior class is a very good one and they seemed to have run off the only seed that kinda brought them down, although I cannot remember his name(delone maybe?).  Everything comes down to getting better players to offest the other team's better players and UPS has players on their second five that would start for any team in this league.  Whitworth has a chance because they are big strong and talented.  They play like men.  Lewis & Clark can beat them because they have guys who can handle the pressure that UPS gives and enough good players to offest those of UPS.  Linfield always gives Linfield trouble because they always have straight up athletes who play like football players.

Formerhooper, you dropped a bombshell in your post...I think I need to go look at ESPN.com to verify that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 05:14:13 PM
Wow! So formerhooper is right.  There it was on the front page of ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3201198
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 05:20:42 PM
I am sure this story will be commented on tons.  How does everyone think he will do at Pepperdine?  Pepperdine is just awful and got thrashed at home by 40 by Gonzaga.  And why did Walberg resign?

SoundLogs, and other UPS & board poster...what's your take on all this?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formerhooper on January 17, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
What it means is that the coach left before getting fired and that Bridgeland is in good with the AD.  To keep potential recruits and current players, keeping Bridgeland is a good move.  It will be interesting to see what happens after the season.  Do they keep him or find another coach?  I would think it is what Bridgeland wanted(being a head coach that is), but you sometimes beware of what you ask for.  That level very different from D3.  I personally think Bridgeland will be fine, but you never know in these cases what happens behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 17, 2008, 06:07:27 PM
I follow St. Mary's and the WCC closely. The Pepperdine board says family reasons are why he is leaving. There had been accusations of improprieties including player abuse. Pepperdine also just self imposed some sanctions due to secondary violations linked to Wahlberg. Many of the Pepperdine folks were not happy with him. I saw them play and beat UOP as well as having seen his Fresno City teams and he drove me crazy as a fan. The Waves have some athletes, but are young. Wahlberg also plays "the system" which had some folks upset.  Good luck to Bridgland. His first game won't be pretty though as they play St. Mary's at St. Mary's this Saturday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 06:27:44 PM
Thats interesting Cawcdad, sounds like Walberg didn't make too many friends there during his short tenure.  Why did he drive you crazy as a fan?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 17, 2008, 06:34:33 PM
Seemed to me to be a control freak. I know coaches who direct traffic, but he was all over the sidelines, hopping around, yelling and screaming. Constantly whining to the officials. Just never seemed happy with what was happening on the court. First call against him at UOP his coat was off and thrown across the chair. By late in the first half the tie was gone. And every game I was at that he coached, he won. Go figure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2008, 09:19:50 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 17, 2008, 05:20:42 PM
I am sure this story will be commented on tons.  How does everyone think he will do at Pepperdine?

I don't know, but I can't imagine that there's a basketball coach in the land who wouldn't fight with everything he has to keep a job in Malibu.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2008, 01:22:20 AM
WOW!  Good luck to Bridgland.  I hope he has some success through the end of the schedule and can be named their coach next season.  If the team improves, he should get consideration, but if they tank it would be hard to see it happening.  He has alot going for him and a good track record, just maybe not THAT good, we are talking D1!  No doubt that there will be tremendous interest in that position from across the nation.

I can't wait for this weekends games.  Go Pirates!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Do-Work25 on January 18, 2008, 10:08:32 AM
Let me put it to you this way... Coach Bridge gets what he wants.

True, it happened in an unfortunate way, but Bridge is a head coach and seeing him staying in an assistant position for long didn't seem likely.

I wish him the best of luck. I think he is one of the best recruiting coaches I've ever seen. He obviously has a history of being successful so I don't see why it shouldn't continue. DI level or not. He's at a college in Malibu, like LogShow said.

As for cawcdad - driving you crazy as a fan...that's just Bridge. On the other hand, its nice to know as a player that your coach has your back at all times, during the game at least - even if you are in the wrong.

Must admitt I heard this news late last night and couldn't wait to see what everyone thought on the matter. Like I said...Bridge is a man that makes things happen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 18, 2008, 10:33:01 AM
Do-Work, it wasn't Bridgeland that drove me crazy, it was Walberg. I have been singing the praises of Bridge to the St. Mary's folks on another site.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 01:17:06 PM
SoundLogs, any thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 01:19:08 PM
Here is the schedule for tonight:

Jan. 18
Whitworth at Pacific Lutheran

Linfield at Pacific (Ore.)

Whitman at Puget Sound

Lewis & Clark at George Fox

Predictions from the posters? :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 18, 2008, 01:32:56 PM
"SoundLogs, any thoughts?"
-Logshow

I'm assuming you mean any thoughts on Bridgeland scoring the head coaching job at Pepperdine?

I dont have too much to add.  In my opinion he'll be succesful, he's a very intelligent coach that knows how to get the most out of his players and get them to play EXTREMELY hard.  I certainly didnt agree with him all the time, but the success that he brought to UPS is tough to argue with.  If he could bring talent to Tacoma, I dont think he'll have much trouble bringing talent to Malibu.  If Pepperdine allows him a couple years to recruit and develop his team he'll be able to build a hell of a program.

I'm looking forward to the Whitworth vs UPS game this Saturday.  Hopefully the Logs bring everything they have, they've had a couple down games lately and they are due for a strong showing.  Logshow, will you be in attendance?  I'll be there!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2008, 01:41:01 PM
Tonight I will go with my team and say:

WW 84 - PLU 77
UPS 95 - WH 90
LF 75  - PAC 73
LC 66 - GF 50

I hope I get 1 right...preferrably the first. 

I will renew my annual threat to ignite that massive drape if we lose.  Go Pirates! 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 18, 2008, 01:46:17 PM
My predictions for the night:

PLU upsets WW 67-64 in a defensive battle. McDaniels has 25 and 10.

Linfield tops Pacific 82-73. Linfield up 10 at the half and hold on for the win.

UPS destroys Whitman 98-75, shoots 51% from the field and 62% from behind the arc.

LC beats George Fox 66-60 by finally playing good defense and making more than 25% of their threes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 02:04:09 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2008, 01:41:01 PM
Tonight I will go with my team and say:

WW 84 - PLU 77
UPS 95 - WH 90
LF 75  - PAC 73
LC 66 - GF 50

I hope I get 1 right...preferrably the first. 

I will renew my annual threat to ignite that massive drape if we lose.  Go Pirates! 



Its going to be a battle for WW tonight...haven't they lost the last 2 years @PLU?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 02:09:30 PM
SoundLogs, I will definately be there on Saturday I wouldn't miss the WW game!  I have mixed feeling about tonights game...obviously the Loggers should dominate and I think they are going to.  But last year when we all assumed a Looger vicotry over Whitman UPS completely sleepwalked through the game and lost.  The first time at home in conference in over 3 years.  It starts and ends with Faidley.  Last year he hit 9 3-pointers, and the amazing thing was he was wide open on most of them.  I hope the Logs learned their lesson from last year and handle their business to set up a huge game asgainst WW tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 02:15:12 PM
Here are my predictions:

WW 84 - PLU 88  This is a game that is definately worth checking out!  its going to be a battle, McDaniels will have a big game to give PLU the slight edge

UPS 105 - WH 85  Big time payback game for the Logs after last year's debacle.  The press should give Whitman fits...if the Logs have their heads on straight they should roll big

LF 70  - PAC 71  NWCer I will give your boxers some love.  They will get off the snide and bring Linfield back down from their high horse

LC 84 - GF 77  LC will roll...final score will probably make game look closer then it really is
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 18, 2008, 02:18:00 PM
Pio20 - certainly fair to predict a PLU win tonight.  But if it is a defensive game, that is to Whitworth's advantage.  PLU has to push the pace and get some easy baskets, which will open up more three-point opportunities.  If McDaniel really gets 25 and 10, its a win in the high 80s.  If the score is in the 60s, Whitworth wins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 18, 2008, 02:18:41 PM
LogShow -

Congratulations on pushing our humble little posting board over the 100 page level!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 18, 2008, 02:18:41 PM
LogShow -

Congratulations on pushing our humble little posting board over the 100 page level!

Maybe our board isn't so humble anymore! :)  Its really pick up this year and I think its been great, I am sure you appreciate too being a long-term poster
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 18, 2008, 03:48:57 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 18, 2008, 02:18:00 PM
Pio20 - certainly fair to predict a PLU win tonight.  But if it is a defensive game, that is to Whitworth's advantage.  PLU has to push the pace and get some easy baskets, which will open up more three-point opportunities.  If McDaniel really gets 25 and 10, its a win in the high 80s.  If the score is in the 60s, Whitworth wins.

I agree...to some extent. WW has scored 77, 72 in OT, 64, and 61 in their conference games. That is why I see a similar score. I do agree it favors WW. And honestly, I see this game going either way. I just  think PLU will pull it out by a few points (even though the style of play may not favor them).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 18, 2008, 03:52:42 PM
I'll go with:

PLU 78, Whitworth 77, coming down to the last possession

UPS 115, Whitman 80, sorry Whitman, I see Lunt having his boys ready to roll

LC 77, George Fox 75, the orange and black squeak it out in Newberg

Pacific 60, Linfield 58, low scoring one possession game

So I think we'll have 3 barn burners with UPS staying perfect in conference with a blowout.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 18, 2008, 04:06:12 PM
Everyone is picking LC to win big tonight! I think this game goes one of two ways: the way we have played all year will result in us down by 5 at the half, pulling out a win with a few threes in the final three minutes OR the way we are capable of playing, which would result in something like this:

Papenfuss-14
Toboni-11
Tillery-12
Roboniwitz-16
Berggren-8
Rivera-5

FG% 43
3PT%42
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 18, 2008, 04:06:12 PM
Everyone is picking LC to win big tonight! I think this game goes one of two ways: the way we have played all year will result in us down by 5 at the half, pulling out a win with a few threes in the final three minutes OR the way we are capable of playing, which would result in something like this:

Papenfuss-14
Toboni-11
Tillery-12
Roboniwitz-16
Berggren-8
Rivera-5

FG% 43
3PT%42

I would think LC would shoot a higher % from the field.  I know they do take lots of 3's so that will lower their %, but overall I would still think they should be able to shoot around 48-50%.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 18, 2008, 04:47:17 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 18, 2008, 04:06:12 PM
Everyone is picking LC to win big tonight! I think this game goes one of two ways: the way we have played all year will result in us down by 5 at the half, pulling out a win with a few threes in the final three minutes OR the way we are capable of playing, which would result in something like this:

Papenfuss-14
Toboni-11
Tillery-12
Roboniwitz-16
Berggren-8
Rivera-5

FG% 43
3PT%42

I would think LC would shoot a higher % from the field.  I know they do take lots of 3's so that will lower their %, but overall I would still think they should be able to shoot around 48-50%.

They are only shooting 44% as a team, but I mean I can't complain with you on that one. A higher FG% is always nice. The bigger issue for the Pios is the percentage they shoot from deep though. They have struggled from behind the arc this season, after being so good from there last season. Anything above 40% would be great for the Pios' chances tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2008, 08:27:06 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 18, 2008, 02:18:41 PM
LogShow -

Congratulations on pushing our humble little posting board over the 100 page level!

Maybe our board isn't so humble anymore! :)  Its really pick up this year and I think its been great, I am sure you appreciate too being a long-term poster

While I have contributed little (maybe nothing, I don't recall) to the total posts, I've long been a 'lurker'.  I well remember the days when the board would have 2-3 posts on game days, then nothing.  For the record, I was one of the IWU supporters who feared UPS in '06, long before the comments back at that date.

You've come a long way from the 43 pages of one year ago today (nearly two years after the site changed over to keeping posts forever).  Still not quite as active as a few of the boards, but definitely joining the 'big leagues'.  The next trick (still not solved by ANY of the boards, so far as I've seen) is getting at least one regular from EVERY team in the conference (CCIW is still lacking any regular contributions from Millikin; MIAA is still over 50% from Hope and Calvin).  Congratulations on page 100, and I hope to see #200 in way under a year from now. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2008, 08:52:01 PM
Light 'em up Logs...Get it done tonight! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 19, 2008, 12:55:58 AM
Ouch!!! Boxers 81 - Cats 51. Pacific outrebounded Linfield 44 - 28 and the Cats had 15 turnovers. Hard to win games if you can't grab and hold on to the rock. The boys have a week to regroup and take on GF next week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 19, 2008, 01:01:14 AM
PLU-62 Whitworth-66

Linfield-51 Pacific-81

Whitman-86 UPS-106

LC-76 George Fox-55

Looks like you were right about the WW game pineconefan. I'm suprised Pacific beat up Linfield so badly. And I'm glad LC stepped it up. Berggren had 16. Sounds like a stat from last year. Perhaps the Pios are finally back on the right track.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 19, 2008, 03:19:03 AM
How 'bout them Boxers!!

Whitworth/PLU sounded about right, thought it would be a tight one but I thought the home team would get it.

May talk myself in to going up to Tacoma to see Whitworth at UPS, should be a good basketball game, never been to the "fieldhouse"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 19, 2008, 03:46:02 AM
Yes! Is all I can think to say about winning at PLU.  Pinecone was nails with his in the 60's prediction as a final result, however the final could have just as easily been 72-56.  The game style was played more to our liking and PLU needed a few things to happen once they were down by 11 with less than 3 to play.  Those things did happen with some missed 1 and 1's by WW and some downtown 3's but WW held the line and never surrendered the lead thanks to clutch free throw shooting in the final minute (6-6).  Quick note, WW played without their 5 man due to injury and yet McDaniels against a smaller defender only finds 2 boards and 11pts.  

Maybe after tomorrow, WW's defense might just start to get the respect that we have deservely given UPS's offense for 5-6 years.  Even I predicted 77 points to PLU pregame but as I said, it could have been <60 maybe even sub 55 had PLU missed 2 or 3 wild (nice shot Brandeberry) bombs.

Pacific just throttles Linfield, nicely done Boxers! and so Saturday's showdown at UPS vs WW matches 1 vs 2.  Should be fun and close.  Anybody think it won't be close?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2008, 03:53:01 AM
Great win Loggers!  I almost had that score right on...I said 105-85 and it was 106-86.  Almost! :)

Gonna be a battle tomorrow night!! :) 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2008, 03:54:23 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 19, 2008, 03:19:03 AM
How 'bout them Boxers!!

Whitworth/PLU sounded about right, thought it would be a tight one but I thought the home team would get it.

May talk myself in to going up to Tacoma to see Whitworth at UPS, should be a good basketball game, never been to the "fieldhouse"


I said...how bout dem boxers!! :) 8)  There you go NWCer, I knew they would get off the snide.

You really should come check out the fieldhouse...it should be rocking, and its going to be a great game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 19, 2008, 04:06:45 AM
I'm tempted Logshow, but my Boxers are at home again against the Bruins tomorrow night, and I missed tonight's game, hate to miss another.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 19, 2008, 06:13:35 AM
I talked to an LC player tonight and he said the first unit got off to a slow start at George Fox. The Pios were down 10-3 to start. But then once Gaillard put the second unit in they took control. The same thing happened in the second half. I wouldn't be suprised if we see more full line changes in the Willamette game. It was an interesting game, as Robinowitz started in place of Berggren. Berggren had 16 off the bench, a season high for him. He shot 4-9 from downtown. Perhaps a trip to the bench was what he needed to get back on target. Also Josh Kollasch came back from his sprained ankle and put up 12 points and pulled down seven boards. The Pios shot 46% from the field and 44% from three. Hopefully they can duplicate that tomorrow night against Willamette. Four games in a row at home...time to capitalize. Students start to trickle back in tomorrow so hopefully it will be a decent crowd. 

Also, apparently Gaillard sat the team down after the rough Washington road trip and a few players mentioned it was different playing with a target on your back. Playing not to lose as supposed to playing to win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 19, 2008, 11:01:02 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 12, 2008, 12:18:54 AM
What's worse (except perhaps for Pio fans) is that, in listening to the game (http://www.whitworth.edu/athletics/Information/Radio.htm), my life hasn't been improved through better hearing even once!   ;)

Quote from: OxyBob on January 19, 2008, 09:51:10 AM
I listened to the second half of the Whitworth-PLU game. Good road win for Whitworth. What a pleasure to listen to Bob Castle. I was disappointed not to hear the so-bad-it's-funny commercial for Columbia Hearing Centers, [...]

Sure took you long enough to rise to the bait, Bob... ::) ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2008, 01:02:17 PM
Here is tonight's games:

Whitman at Pacific Lutheran

Whitworth at Puget Sound

Willamette at Lewis & Clark

George Fox at Pacific
Title: amazing line
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 19, 2008, 01:53:42 PM
Last night Jason Foster of Puget Sound

21 minutes
29 points on 13 of 15 shooting
13 rebounds, 7 offensive

Monster!
Title: Re: amazing line
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2008, 03:39:00 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on January 19, 2008, 01:53:42 PM
Last night Jason Foster of Puget Sound

21 minutes
29 points on 13 of 15 shooting
13 rebounds, 7 offensive

Monster!

I sure hope he has a repeat preformance tonight.  WW is tough...everyone for UPS needs to step up tonight!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 19, 2008, 05:26:57 PM
My predictions:

PLU tops Whitman 92-73

WW tops UPS 78-77...tough one to call there! WW has been playing great defense and UPS has the best offense! Something has to give!

LC tops Willamette 68-60. Second unit continues to play well. I'll be there for the eyewitness report.

George Fox gets on the board against Pacific 75-68.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2008, 05:50:35 PM
Okay here are my predictions:

Whitman 70  Pacific Lutheran 75 Faidley will try to keep it close but won't have enough help

Whitworth 77  Puget Sound 83  This is going to be a close, tight game.  WW has the D, UPS has the O.  UPS has the depth, WW only plays maybe 6 guys.  UPS has actually been playing better D in the half court this year...if they don't give up a lay-up from the press they can be tough.  It will be a battle, and a fun game to watch!

Willamette 68 Lewis & Clark 80  LC is just too much for the Bearcats

George Fox 58 Pacific 60 This will be a slow game, and I think Pac will grind out a second straight win on their home court.

Should be some great NWC action tonight! 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2008, 06:51:11 PM
Bring it home tonight Logs...Let's get it done!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 20, 2008, 01:19:02 AM
Sad sad game for LC. After getting off to a slow start and being down 8-0 just like last night, the second unit played well and the game went to the Pios control. We were up by as many as 15 at one point in the first I think. Then at about the 13 minute mark of the second half, the offense just went stagnant. It took them a while, but Willamette cut down the 11 point deficit slowly, and the Pio offense continued to reel. Every game that the Pios play well and look consistent, they follow it up with an inconsistent game. Now they really need to play to win every game from here on out if they want a shot at even making the conference tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 20, 2008, 01:37:34 AM
Pirates Win 83-78!  With one returning starter from last season and what a game that starter, Ryan Symes had (24p 6a).  Foster and Ryan both had nice games with some showcase dunks, but my gameball goes to WW point, Ross Nakamura.  This 1st year junior had ZERO turnovers against UPS tonight.  How many conference point guards can play 35+ minutes against UPS and say that over the past 6 years.  Willemsen was also very good.  Double double with 13 pts, pulled 11 def. RB and 2 steals.

Great gameplan by WW.  I think WW coaches "hid" Sellereit against PLU then rolled him out tonight and he fired away for 17 pts and 24 minutes.  WW ended up playing 9 without Montgomery, their starting post.

I am not sure when WW last swept in Tacoma, I do know this is the first time under Hayford.  I waxed and warned that WW defense was for real.  That PLU win obviously turned some heads based on those post and predictions I saw.  Great job Pirates and I will be anxious to see and talk about polls next week.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 20, 2008, 02:50:58 AM
nwhoops,

According to the story on the Whitworth website, this is the first time Whitworth has swept PLU and UPS on the same trip since UPS joined the league in the late 1990's.  I knew this had been a tough trip annually for the Bucs, but didn't know that.

Maybe now that Whitworth has broken through, this trip won't seem so daunting in the future. 

It is obviously a big win.  If the Bucs can take care of business this week against the NWC's only winless teams, they will head into the second half 7-1 and have five of the last eight at home.  Included in that group of five nome games are UPS (5-1), PLU (4-2) and Linfield (4-2). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 20, 2008, 03:39:01 AM

thanks pinecone, hadn't read the release yet.

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/07_08/UPS1.htm
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 20, 2008, 02:06:32 PM
I would expect WW to at least get a few votes for the top 25 after they made the front page writeup too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 20, 2008, 07:14:07 PM
Well the Loggers played uninspired last night and probably turned in one of their worst preformances this year.  UPS dfinately did not have it, but got to hand it to WW they played well and are a good team. 

I was suprised that the Logs came out so flat, they were lucky to be down only 3 at half.  The 2nd half was somewhat better but the Loggers missed shots and turned it over late in the game while WW capitalized on the mistakes. 

Well the Logs can't dwell on these games because they have two huge ones next weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 20, 2008, 07:28:37 PM
Here are the standing after 3 weeks of conference play:

Puget Sound  5-1
Whitworth      5-1 
Linfield            4-2 
Pacific Lutheran  4-2 
Lewis & Clark  3-3 
Pacific             3-3 
Willamette      3-3 
George Fox     0-6 
Whitman         0-6
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 20, 2008, 08:50:16 PM
Definitely a frustrating weekend for Pio fans. Despite having a ton of experience, this year's team has just been extremely inconsistent. There has been so little to get excited about with LC sports, it is certainly disappointing how this season has gone so far. I am excited about seeing UPS Friday night, should be a fun game.

Have to give a lot of credit to WW as well. After losing all those seniors, to come back with another strong squad is pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pirat on January 20, 2008, 10:47:25 PM
Nice job RATS

Points off the UPS press:  UPS: 0   Whitworth: a lot
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Do-Work25 on January 21, 2008, 12:21:33 PM
Well...crap.

Very disappointing performance by the Loggers on Saturday. Got to give props to WW.

Hopefully UPS will use this as fuel for the rest of the season.

Craziness all over the league it looks like. Just proves on any given night.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 21, 2008, 11:18:54 PM
Latest poll is out

UPS drops 4 spots down to #11.  WW was receiving votes. My guess is it will take WW 2 more weekends of sweeps before they break the Top 25
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 21, 2008, 11:20:28 PM
So with this weekend behind us, its time to focus on next weekend.  It seems like each game packs more and more pressure.  I know the Logs have a huge weekend @LC and @Willamette

WW posters...are any of you concerned about the game Tues?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2008, 12:58:07 AM
Tuesday is a potential trap game for the Pirates:

1.  There has to be a natural let-down after such a big weekend
2.  Third road game in a span of five days - fatigue
3.  Fatigue could be a big issue because the starters played so many minutes this weekend
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2008, 12:58:58 AM
Congrats to Ryan Symes - NWC Player of the Week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2008, 01:36:29 AM
I personally am not worried about the Tuesday game from a fatigue standpoint.  I do think winning on the road in conf. is never simply about showing up.  You must still play your game.  I don't see Whitman changing things up much so the tempo should play into WW's style.  WW is deeper than they let on.

Congrats to Symes.  Other than 6-6 from line to seal at PLU, he didn't even play that great.  Certainly was a force Sat.  That's 3 for 3 for WA schools for POTW.

The top 25 Poll is apparently very difficult to break into.  Our Massey with MOV is 14th in the country and although it doesn't even factor, our defense rating is #1 nationally.  WW is holding teams 16.5 pts below their scoring average and doing so without making the game boring or slow, ie..they press, break and play man to man primarily.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 01:40:57 AM
It's especially hard when a voter sees a neutral floor loss to Bridgewater State on the resume.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2008, 01:42:13 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 22, 2008, 12:58:07 AM
Tuesday is a potential trap game for the Pirates:

1.  There has to be a natural let-down after such a big weekend
2.  Third road game in a span of five days - fatigue
3.  Fatigue could be a big issue because the starters played so many minutes this weekend

1. I don't see this unit being spent emotionally.  Probably just us fans are.
2. Fatigue...they didn't show fatigue Sat. from Friday's game at all.  They might be the best conditioned team WW has ever had.
3. See #2

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2008, 01:50:58 AM
Are you kidding?  Bridgewater appears respectable.  They lost to Brandeis on the road by only 5 and have now won 6 straight.  Their preseason schedule looks very respectable.  You know more about East coast D3 than all of us on the West Coast combined.  I am now forced to track them throughout the season...lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2008, 02:03:55 AM
Good post Pinecone, I was wondering if you might be worried about a let down.  Faidley is a pretty good player.  WW can't afford to let him get going.

NWHoops, I do think they showed some fatigue in Sat. game...still made plays, but they did look tired.  Not taking anything away from them.  It doesn't matter who you are playing 40min night in night out is tough and does wear on a player.  WW may not feel much fatigue right now but as the season wears on I can see them wearing out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2008, 02:28:16 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2008, 01:50:58 AM
Are you kidding?  Bridgewater appears respectable.  They lost to Brandeis on the road by only 5 and have now won 6 straight.  Their preseason schedule looks very respectable.

That winning streak was snapped this evening, as Bridgewater State (or, as my Mass friends like to call it, Bilgewater State) was beaten by Mass College of Liberal Arts, 100-94.

The league in which Bridgewater State and MCLA play, the MASCAC, gets very little respect in general. I'm sure that that's part of the reason why Pat dissed the Bears in his response to your raising the subject of Whitworth and the Top 25.

Oh, and it's non-conference schedule, not "preseason schedule". Those games count, too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2008, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2008, 02:28:16 AM

Oh, and it's non-conference schedule, not "preseason schedule". Those games count, too.

Uh-oh don't get Sager started on that one :) Sager that should be your quote at the bottom of your posts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2008, 02:49:49 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 22, 2008, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2008, 02:28:16 AM

Oh, and it's non-conference schedule, not "preseason schedule". Those games count, too.

Uh-oh don't get Sager started on that one :) Sager that should be your quote at the bottom of your posts.

Nah, I can't abandon my man Homer.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2008, 02:59:26 AM
True dat, he is a great philosopher!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2008, 04:34:14 AM
Thanks for the explanation Sager.  That helps explain the shot.  But as I said, you guys know the score.  I would also say that 3000 miles away is never a neutral site for a NWC school vs what? 50 miles for Bridge?

I think WW showed some moxy traveling cross country to play a tourney that apparently couldn't help them with the pollsters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 09:36:12 AM
Bridgewater State is 8-7 (and Sager pointed out the conference issues) -- a Top 25 lock should beat them on any floor. With a loss, there's bound to be questions raised and mixed opinions, and that's why Whitworth isn't in the Top 25, I think.

Losing at Linfield isn't great but I think we understand that Linfield is a couple steps ahead of their recent level. Losing to Chapman isn't great either, but that was Chapman's third game and Whitworth's first. So a voter could be convinced to overlook those.

Where the tournament helps Whitworth is it gets them on a plane to an unfamiliar part of the country, which they'd have to do again if they make the NCAA Tournament, no doubt.

And it's a four-hour drive if traffic is perfect from Bridgewater State to Staten Island. Not that I ever saw perfect traffic on 95 between Boston and NYC. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2008, 01:12:59 PM
NWhoops - While I think tonight's game is a potential trap, I don't think the Pirates will fall into it.  I think Hayford is smart enough to address those issues (light practice on Monday, reminder about Faidley, etc.).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2008, 01:14:38 PM
No reason to sweat about the polls, but they do create interesting conversation.  What is more important is the regional rankings.

Pat, any idea when the first regional rankings will be released?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2008, 01:37:31 PM
Thats true...national polls are good for patting yourself on the back, but at the end its only the regional ranksing that matter for the tourney.

Pinecone is the game going to be on the internet tonight?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 22, 2008, 02:43:07 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 22, 2008, 01:14:38 PM
No reason to sweat about the polls, but they do create interesting conversation.  What is more important is the regional rankings.

Pat, any idea when the first regional rankings will be released?

Feb. 13.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2008, 03:24:59 PM
Thanks David.

Logshow - Yes, you can listen to the audio broadcast.  I believe there is a link on the NWC site and D3hoops.com.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2008, 03:38:05 PM
Thanks for the info Pinecone.

I was wondering...does WW's radio guy get paid by the school? Or does he make those trips (ie. tonight) out of pure devotion
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2008, 09:53:41 PM
I don't think Castle is paid at all.  Not a WW employee or contractor, from all I have heard.  Maybe the sponsorship covers his expenses.  Since I have no real info, I prolly shouldn't post but I am curious, why do you ask?

Pinecone, I would be shocked if we lose and yes, Whit has some scorers but we have some defenders.  I predict a 75-61 win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2008, 09:58:48 PM
Thanks Coleman for the deeper info, this is great.  I really appreciate it.  And just to be sure, I am not saying WW deserves to be in the top 25 because of a good weekend and conf. start.  I was curious to learn what poll voters thought and you have given me some nie feedback.  Cheers and go Bridgewater!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 12:12:13 AM
I was wondering because it seems like he does pretty much all of WW's games home and away, which I think is pretty cool.  I thought UPS used to do home conference games but I could find the link on their website the other weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 12:16:33 AM
Hey Sager are you listening to the WW game? I know you love those commercials!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 23, 2008, 12:25:38 AM
Castle is good.  Commercials are getting better.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 12:43:40 AM
G. Fox and Whitman are still winless...I think they meet this weekend to settle this debate once and for all
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 23, 2008, 12:49:08 AM
Here are the standing after 3.5 weeks of conference play:

Whitworth      6-1
Puget Sound  5-1 
Linfield            4-2 
Pacific Lutheran  4-2 
Lewis & Clark  3-3 
Pacific             3-3 
Willamette      3-3 
George Fox     0-6 
Whitman         0-7
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 01:11:06 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 23, 2008, 12:49:08 AM
Here are the standing after 3.5 weeks of conference play:

Whitworth      6-1
Puget Sound  5-1 
Linfield            4-2 
Pacific Lutheran  4-2 
Lewis & Clark  3-3 
Pacific             3-3 
Willamette      3-3 
George Fox     0-6 
Whitman         0-7


The only reason you wanted to post that after 3.5 is so you could have WW on top...sly move my man 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2008, 02:01:53 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 12:16:33 AM
Hey Sager are you listening to the WW game? I know you love those commercials!

You're confusing me with my fellow Hall of Famer David Collinge, who has an ongoing gripe with the hearing-aid commercials on the Whitworth broadcast. I've never listened to a Whitworth game; my only experience with the Pirates comes from seeing them in Wheaton's Pfund Tourney last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 23, 2008, 02:28:23 AM
Gearing up for my first live game since leaving Holland in 2003... I was hoping the Game between LC and UPS was going to be a game between nationally ranked teams, or at least the two top teams in the league... Now just hoping for a good game.

Any tips about when to arrive or where to sit Friday night?

If anyone locally is interested, the next day I am hosting a Hope/Calvin party at the Ram in Lake Oswego. The game will be a satellite broadcast starting at 11:00. Don't have to be a Hope or Calvin fan to watch the best rivalry in DIII... Check out www.hopecalvin.com (http://www.hopecalvin.com)

See ya all in a few days.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 23, 2008, 10:22:03 AM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 23, 2008, 02:28:23 AM
Gearing up for my first live game since leaving Holland in 2003... I was hoping the Game between LC and UPS was going to be a game between nationally ranked teams, or at least the two top teams in the league... Now just hoping for a good game.

Any tips about when to arrive or where to sit Friday night?

Can't say I wasn't hoping for the same. Don't worry about arriving too early. Girls game starts at 6 and the crowd won't start filling up til 8. I would suggest sitting on the side behind the scorer's table, or higher up on the student side. The Ram is great. You have to order some Ram chips!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 23, 2008, 12:00:52 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2008, 02:01:53 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 12:16:33 AM
Hey Sager are you listening to the WW game? I know you love those commercials!

You're confusing me with my fellow Hall of Famer David Collinge, who has an ongoing gripe with the hearing-aid commercials on the Whitworth broadcast. I've never listened to a Whitworth game; my only experience with the Pirates comes from seeing them in Wheaton's Pfund Tourney last season.

...and sadly, Columbia Hearing Centers are no longer interested in improving the lives (through better hearing) of listeners to Bob Castle's broadcasts.  :'(  OxyBob and I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of those broadcasts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 23, 2008, 12:55:36 PM
UPS/LC who cares????  The big game is Whitman/Fox.........  Who goes winless for the first half??????!!!!!!

The standings make this upcoming weekend big for a number of teams (seems like that's just the norm for the league though every weekend).  Is it me, or can you count on UPS and Whitworth to claim two of the tourney spots?  I think the race for the 3rd will be interesting with us knowing a lot more after Saturday night.

Linfield, 4-2 (PLU at home and at LC)
PLU, 4-2 (at Linfield, and at Pacific)
Pacific, 3-3 (at Willamette, and PLU at home)
LC, 3-3 (UPS and Linfield at home)
Willamette, 3-3 (Pacific and UPS at home)

A lot can happen, with Linfield and PLU playing, you know at least one will be guaranteed to be at 5 wins minimum at the turn, I'm doubting that either team will go through the weekend without a loss.  LC is winless at home in conference, I don't know what to expect from them.  I saw my Boxers Saturday night, look to be playing better, talked to people who saw them the night before against Linfield and they said it was complete domination across the board for 40 minutes, just what I love to hear ;D, also heard there was some "issues" going on down on Linfield's bench, will see how they respond.  Willamette just had a huge road win, have to be feeling good with my Boxers coming to town, and then they got the mighty Loggers coming to town, a team they've had success against at home the last few years.  Sounds like a good weekend coming up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 23, 2008, 01:18:01 PM
I've seen George Fox play, and they're not as bad as 0-6, they could very well be 3-3.  They have lost 4 of 6 games by a combined 12 points.  They have significant leads in the second half and then find a way to lose the lead toward the end, let the other team go on top by 2 or 3 and then give it away.  They had a great chance to win in pacific, but they simply couldn't stop Garold Howe, who finished with 26 or 28.  Although the game is in Whitman so that could favor the Missionaries
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 23, 2008, 01:29:32 PM
I agree 80sshorts, Fox has had some tough breaks, could be even better than 3-3.  But the fact is they're 0-6 and have to play in Walla Walla, at what point does the frustration of not getting over the hump start to effect their play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 23, 2008, 05:18:42 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 23, 2008, 02:28:23 AM
Gearing up for my first live game since leaving Holland in 2003... I was hoping the Game between LC and UPS was going to be a game between nationally ranked teams, or at least the two top teams in the league... Now just hoping for a good game.

Any tips about when to arrive or where to sit Friday night?

I wouldn't worry about arriving early for the game. As for seating, I would sit on the scorers table side as the other side is mostly students. Hopefully there will be a good turnout and the Pios can give the Loggers a game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 10:30:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2008, 02:01:53 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 12:16:33 AM
Hey Sager are you listening to the WW game? I know you love those commercials!

You're confusing me with my fellow Hall of Famer David Collinge, who has an ongoing gripe with the hearing-aid commercials on the Whitworth broadcast. I've never listened to a Whitworth game; my only experience with the Pirates comes from seeing them in Wheaton's Pfund Tourney last season.

I was, my fault!  Getting my HOFers mixed up ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 10:32:14 PM
LCPios07, I know LC hasn't been playing up to standards...but have you lost faith already?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 23, 2008, 10:47:05 PM
I definitely haven't lost faith, I actually think the Pios matchup very well with UPS and have a good shot of pulling off the upset. I think anyone that has been around LC athletics for the past 4-5 years there has been little to cheer about, and after seeing the Pios go toe to toe with Portland State there was a ton of optimisim going into league. So seeing the team struggle this much has been quite frustrating, BUT I still think the Pios will find their way into the top 3 by the end of the season, and when they shoot the three well the Pios can beat anyone in any arena. Hopefully this Friday will be one of those games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2008, 11:17:03 PM
If LC is hitting 3's they are very tough to beat.  UPS needs to keep Tillery out of the lane, and limit (to tough to eliminate) LC's 3-pointers. 

Even though LC isn't at the top of the league, this game has huge implications for both teams
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 24, 2008, 12:44:47 AM
That's a funny observation OxyBob.  I bet he doesn't even know he does it.  I am afraid if I say something to him, he might try to stop it and then the world would change so much so quickly, planet earth might be thrust directly into the sun.  I think I will wait til the season is over.

Anyway, focus stays with UPS as they hit the road.  I think they go either 2-0 or 0-2.  Fridays game is that pivotal.  Only exception would be if Willamette implodes and loses to Pac on Fri but I dont see that happening either.  UPS won in Spokane last year and now must take care of business for a month to make that game huge. 

LC must win.  Losing Friday would doom them to a maybe 4th place finish.  I just don't see 5 loses getting third.  A win and they will have some reason to believe and fight to save what could have been.  They could then overtake PLU and make playoffs.  PLU has the senior led team and should stay in top 4.  Linfield will likely fade and lose a few they need to win.  Since no one posts for WIL, I will overlook them tonight.

Yes I do think WW will still be in 1st when the UPS game arrives in Feb.  I also predicted the Pats would go undefeated on draft day after they got Randy Moss.  P.S. I hate the Pats.  Go Eli and Bridgewater.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 01:20:13 AM
No chance UPS goes 0-2...thats only happenes in Hayford's dreams.  And only once the past 6 years.  But even a split would make things hard on the Loggers.  No doubt it's a tough weekend though...UPS needs to put on their big boy pants and step up to the plate.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 24, 2008, 01:30:58 AM
"Only exception would be if Willamette implodes and loses to Pac on Fri but I dont see that happening either"

50/50 game, wouldn't call a Pacific win on Friday and implosion by Willamette.

Also Logshow, I know you're my boy, and you know I think UPS is very good, but there is a chance UPS can go 0-2 this weekend (even though I doubt it), they loss twice at LC last year, and when was the last time they won at Willamette?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 24, 2008, 01:30:58 AM
"Only exception would be if Willamette implodes and loses to Pac on Fri but I dont see that happening either"

50/50 game, wouldn't call a Pacific win on Friday and implosion by Willamette.

Also Logshow, I know you're my boy, and you know I think UPS is very good, but there is a chance UPS can go 0-2 this weekend (even though I doubt it), they loss twice at LC last year, and when was the last time they won at Willamette?

NWCer...your my boy blue! Now that I got that out of the wya...don't rain on my parade ;).  You got me though, I was definately frontin, to quote Pharrell.  This weekend is definately very scary.  I think UPS will be ready to go on Friday though, they owe LC a little something.  LC ended their season last year.  UPS had a double digit halftime lead and let the game get away from them.  Also UPS has always been a great bounce back team, they will bounce back very strong after the loss to WW in their last game.

To answer your question. It was 3 years ago...got trounced last year.  Of course WW hadn't won at UPS since Hayford became the coach (or maybe they did his very first year) and that happend this year too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 24, 2008, 02:22:39 AM
To clarify, you are right it is a 50-50 game but if WIL implodes (loses after leading by 20 or actually loses by 20) then they will be completely toothless Sat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 24, 2008, 12:17:22 PM
I hear ya NWHOOPS, that makes sense.

And Logshow, you know I couldn't let that one fly ::), I don't think they'll drop both, I'm guessing it will be tough for them to get that one at LC, that's a 50/50 one, and then they'll be ready to take care of Willamette the next night, I'll say that's 80/20.

Should be fun. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 03:33:33 PM
Here is the schedule for Friday:

Jan. 25
Pacific Lutheran at Linfield

George Fox at Whitman

Puget Sound at Lewis & Clark

Pacific (Ore.) at Willamette

Big games throughout the conference
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 24, 2008, 05:28:12 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 23, 2008, 05:18:42 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 23, 2008, 02:28:23 AM
Gearing up for my first live game since leaving Holland in 2003... I was hoping the Game between LC and UPS was going to be a game between nationally ranked teams, or at least the two top teams in the league... Now just hoping for a good game.

Any tips about when to arrive or where to sit Friday night?

I wouldn't worry about arriving early for the game. As for seating, I would sit on the scorers table side as the other side is mostly students. Hopefully there will be a good turnout and the Pios can give the Loggers a game.

Hope to see some of you then... I'll be wearing a Hope College sweatshirt, and looking for a beer after the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 24, 2008, 05:28:12 PM


Hope to see some of you then... I'll be wearing a Hope College sweatshirt, and looking for a beer after the game.

No doubt you will be quite popular with the LC students
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 24, 2008, 08:14:04 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 24, 2008, 05:28:12 PM


Hope to see some of you then... I'll be wearing a Hope College sweatshirt, and looking for a beer after the game.

No doubt you will be quite popular with the LC students

I'll be the one drinking the beer during the game  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 08:37:19 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 24, 2008, 08:14:04 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 24, 2008, 05:28:12 PM


Hope to see some of you then... I'll be wearing a Hope College sweatshirt, and looking for a beer after the game.

No doubt you will be quite popular with the LC students

I'll be the one drinking the beer during the game  :D

Would that be beer in a nalgene bottle or Captain Morgans in the Coke bottle?  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 24, 2008, 10:28:16 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 08:37:19 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 24, 2008, 08:14:04 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2008, 07:28:13 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 24, 2008, 05:28:12 PM


Hope to see some of you then... I'll be wearing a Hope College sweatshirt, and looking for a beer after the game.

No doubt you will be quite popular with the LC students

I'll be the one drinking the beer during the game  :D

Would that be beer in a nalgene bottle or Captain Morgans in the Coke bottle?  ;)

haha..If we lose I'll be drinking after to try to forget! haha...a loss puts us at 3-4 in conference and in an even deeper hole to make the conference playoff. A win could possibly change the fortunes of the season. We shall see tomorrow night!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 24, 2008, 10:32:10 PM
Not basketball related...but during the Willamette game Dave Berggren was getting some heckling from Willamette fans for having a tattoo on his shoulder that reads "chip." Chip on the shoulder...get it? It got me thinking about tattoos in the NWC. I haven't seen many in the games I have witnessed this year, except for when we played a Seventh Day Adventist school (almost every player had some sort of religious tattoo). Any good, bad, or ugly tattoos out there in the NWC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 25, 2008, 11:54:50 AM
 :D :D :D Pio20, that's a great questions!

I cant speak for this year specifically (although A. Willams for UPS has some serious ink) but there was a 6'10 center that played for PLU a couple years back who had some god awful tattoos.  An explanation cant even do them justice but he had matching "tribal armbands" on each arm right above his elbows.  They almost looked fake and I actually remember feeling sorry for him when i saw them up close and realized they were his for life...I laughed out loud.  The only possible way you can have duel "tribal armband" tattoos and still look cool and/or tough is if you are in the WWE or are one of the guys from American gladiator.  And even then you are pushing your luck.

This is a great topic, there has to be some other good ones.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 25, 2008, 01:17:25 PM
OK, let me kick off the predictions...........

UPS 88, LC 78 - LC falls to 3-4 in conference and winless at home, who would of thunk it

Linfield 105, PLU 103 - A barn burner with a lot of points scored but the home team prevails and Linfield moves to 5-2

George Fox 79, Whitman 78 - Fox blows another big second half lead but holds on to win their first conference game and leave Whitman winless

Pacific 68, Willamette 60 - Ok I'm biased here, but I think my Boxers can get it done for the 3rd straight game

And Whitworth.........  They're at home watching tons of tape to get ready for those might Banana Slugs  ;)......

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Do-Work25 on January 25, 2008, 01:45:28 PM
Worst Tattoo ever:

It wasn't in the NWC, but it was a guy from Northwest - It was on his leg, backside, just under his knee on the side kinda....

It was a basketball with a chain in links spiraling down his leg and across his shin to something around his ankle which could not be seen because his shoe covered it up. Ridiculous.

By far the worst tattoo I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 25, 2008, 03:20:55 PM
I know this isn't basetball related but it's involving one of the NWC's non-football members.

Catdomealumni.com has just posted up an interview with Pacific University's Athletic Director, Ken Schumann, about the possible return of football in Forest Grove.

The Red and Purple Interview: Pacific AD Ken Schumann (http://catdomealumni.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 25, 2008, 04:20:54 PM
Good interview 11. Thanks for doing it and posting for us.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 26, 2008, 12:26:26 AM
I am nauseated looking through the past few day's pages on this here basketball board.
I am embarrassed by the LINFIELD program.  I suppose  it pleases other schools to no end. That's fair.
9:28PM and LINFIELD is up on PLU by 17 but the way they play they can give that up in 90 secs.
The House of Hustle had defense as one of it's walls.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 26, 2008, 12:36:21 AM
Big ending coming up in Whitman, game tied at 45 all between Whitman and George Fox, Whitman at the foul line, 28 seconds. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2008, 12:38:07 AM
UPS 10-0 run now down 15

6:32 remaining 64-49
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2008, 12:39:31 AM
80ssshorts and all....NWC has an ingame update page now. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 26, 2008, 12:41:35 AM
Yeah, I saw that, I'm listening to the game too.  Faidley for the win, far range 3 at the buzzer, game heads to OT for the cellar dwellers, 48-all
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2008, 12:56:06 AM
I think LC is the one who can give up 18 points in 90 seconds.  UPS storming back down 3
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 26, 2008, 01:06:11 AM
Atwater just hit a 3 at the buzzer to send it to OT, but GFU has Satern, O'Connell fouled out
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 26, 2008, 01:08:58 AM
2nd OT that is
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 26, 2008, 01:14:09 AM
Great... UPS makes an unbelievable comeback - from 26 points down. Ties it. They are then down 2 with L&C heading to the line to shoot one with onlyu six seconds left... and the AUDIO STOPS!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 26, 2008, 01:20:10 AM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on January 26, 2008, 01:14:09 AM
Great... UPS makes an unbelievable comeback - from 26 points down. Ties it. They are then down 2 with L&C heading to the line to shoot one with onlyu six seconds left... and the AUDIO STOPS!!!

...and let me guess, Dave...you were the one updating the scoreboard, too, not someone at the gym.  Right?  So it'll be 78-76, 0:06 left until the LC SID gets around to posting the score later tonight?   :P

UPDATE:  NWCSports.com (http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/basketball_men/), through extensive exit polling, has declared L&C the 78-76 winner.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 26, 2008, 01:22:41 AM
Yeah - I was the one updating the scoreboard! So... unless I can stick it out and get a score before falling asleep (I have been up now for 21 hours!)... their SID might need to do some updating :)!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2008, 01:28:22 AM
Thank God for Flegel and his cell phone.  LC apparently has not held off a monster comeback with a crazy bucket with :06 to play to win by 2 and now trail UPS 92-87 no word if this is a final.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 26, 2008, 01:29:16 AM
Crazy night.  Two sources now agree that UPS won 92-87 in OT. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 26, 2008, 01:29:41 AM
Yep - I have at least some source that says UPS wins 92-87 in OT!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 26, 2008, 01:34:49 AM
Not that anyone would care at this point but GFU pulled it out in 2 OT against Whitman, 82-75, sounds like a wild night in the Northwest conference
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2008, 01:36:57 AM
Tillery fouls out for LC leading by 10 or 13 the rest is UPS History.  Down 26 in the second half on the road.  What happened between :06 and :00?

Congrats to Loggers for an amazing victory.  And to GF for gutting it out and getting their first.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on January 26, 2008, 01:38:05 AM
Our friend from the MIAA, NWHopeFan was at the Lewis&Clark/Puget Sound game and is returning to Portland to host a satelite party for Hope/Calvin in the morning.

Guys going to have an interesting 15 hours.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 26, 2008, 02:08:22 AM
My first live game in nearly 5 years... WOW :o

Boy was that a doozy!

UPS didn't look like a top 25 team the first half, or LC showed why they had been at one point.

Second half was a different story... Ups was moving the ball a lot more, and was holding LC on defense.

UPS presses the whole game... wild! This league unlike the MIAA plays Friday/Saturday games... These two teams are going to be pooped tomorrow... I can't imagine a Hope/Calvin game on a Saturday after Hope had to play Albion the night before...

I need to go to bed, but I'll update more tomorrow.

Peace!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 26, 2008, 07:06:39 AM
We played like a top ten team in the first half, dominating on defense as well as offensively. We beat the UPS press every time up the floor. Nick Thierry got the start over Tyson Papenfuss (who is not a good ball handler). Thierry is also quick and helped break the press. Tillery dominated and was able to penetrate almost every possession and either take it all the way in or dish it out to shooters. I knew UPS would make a run in the second half but we held it off early on. Then Tillery fouled out and we were done. We stopped penetrating and turned the ball over too many times in the backcourt. Late in the game, Berggren had a chance for a breakaway dunk but laid it up instead and missed it. Then UPS tied it up. Next LC possession Gene Rivera made an amazing shot and got fouled. So it is 78-76 LC with 6.6 seconds left. But then apparently Coach Gaillard called Corey Allen over to the bench but the ball had already been thrown to Rivera to shoot the free throw and Corey had left his mark on the line and so it was a lane violation. That was costly because if Gene makes that free throw it is a three point game with 6.6 seconds. Instead, Antwan Williams goes coast to coast for a layup and it is OT. At that point it was pretty much over. That one hurts a lot. After being up so much to lose that game has to just totally deflate the Pios.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2008, 12:25:23 PM
DID YOU SAY LANE VIOLATION!!  It is now official, LC imploded.  Just sad to let your opponent breath and then lose.  Tillery fouls out at 7:33 carelessly.  He had left after getting his fourth at 9:48.  Sub back in at 8:11 up 18.  WHY?

UPS  has 22 1st half and 56 second half.  Jeckyl and Hyde action.   
Title: Loggers at LC
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 26, 2008, 03:02:44 PM
Wow....the posts here showed that Tillery fouled out midway through the second half, which had to be huge.  Puget Sound had no answer for him last season, and judging from the first 30 minutes in this game that didn't change this year.  I only wish I could have seen that game--two tremendous point guards and two teams needing a win....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 26, 2008, 04:26:06 PM
Yeah the lane violation was terrible. Even after letting UPS climb all the way back we still had a chance to win after Rivera hit that big **** with 6 seconds left. But he never had a chance to shoot the free throw (not that he would have made it necessarily) that would have put us up three and forced UPS to shoot a three to try to tie. But basically the game changed when Tillery fouled out. He had three early on in the first half so he was up against it trying to put a stop on Williams. I must say Williams has one of the smoothest shots I have ever seen. But after Tillery was gone we struggled to break the press and turned the ball over a ton and UPS started hitting shots and there went the 20+ point lead.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 26, 2008, 07:39:41 PM
Really tough loss for the Pios, UPS first lead came in overtime as LC controlled the game for over 30 minutes. Tillery fouling out with seven minutes left was definitely the turning point. He was breaking the press with ease and shutting down Antwan Williams offense. Once he left Williams got whatever he wanted and the Pios started turning the ball over. That will be a tough one to get over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2008, 10:22:50 PM
No question that the back court battle and lack there of over the last 7 minutes was decisive.  Williams is a good player and is streaky.  If he feels he can't be stopped, he just goes at it and challenges every possession.  Great game and probably a lock for POTW.  I just have to point out how HUGE Nakamura played at UPS last Sat.  Williams had 9 pts. and a very nice 11 assists but very little penetration. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 27, 2008, 12:59:48 AM
WW wins 70-58 over Fox.
 
UPS wins 90-75.  Down 9 in first half...then come back to lead by 9 at half.
Streaky good.

LC wins over Linfield 83-77
 
Pacific with 40 from Garold Howe, win over PLU 94-85
Howe's line 16-19, 4-4 from 3pt, 4-4 FT, 7 reb, 4 assist.  Monster.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
Half way through league play here is what the standings look like:


Puget Sound    7-1
Whitworth        7-1
Linfield             5-3
Lewis & Clark   4-4
Pacific Lutheran  4-4
Pacific (Ore.)     4-4
Willamette        4-4
George Fox       1-7
Whitman           0-8
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 02:20:53 PM
There really is starting to be some separation between the top and middle of the league.  5 teams are lumped to gether and will be fighting it out for that last playoff spot.  These last 4 weeks are going to be really interesting
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 02:25:26 PM
I will hand it to the LC for getting a win the next night after their Jean Van de Velde at the 1999 British Open collapse.  I thought they would tank it. Should be interesting to see how they do next weekend...amazingly, despite 4 losses in the first round of league play they still aren't out of the running for the last playoff spot
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 27, 2008, 02:29:03 PM
Solid win for the Pios last night...puts us in fourth place with half the season to go. We definitely still have a shot at that third spot. I was very impressed with Cody Tesoro and the southpaw Steve Taylor from Linfield. Ultimately it came down to us getting the ball inside in the second half, as everyone was penetrating. As a result we got a lot of layups and shot 73% from the field and went to the free throw line 16 times. It looked like the the old #16 beating everyone in non-conference Pioneers, as Papenfuss had 18 and we only turned the ball over four times. Big Tuesday game coming up for the Pios, as they take on Pacific. There are four teams at 4-4 right in the middle of the pack. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 27, 2008, 06:05:48 PM
Wow, what a weekend in conference.  Made it through the slick streets last night to go out to the grove to watch my Boxers take on the PLU team I've heard so much about.  Garold Howe was simply in a zone, scoring every which way, quite a performance, 40 points. 

I wasn't overly impressed with PLU, they have some shooters and are explosive offensively but their inability, or maybe even intention or unwillingness, to defend was very apparent. 

As posted earlier, looks like UPS/Whitworth will be 1-2, Fox/Whitman will be 8-9, (any order for both), but then you got Linfield at 5-3 and Pacific, PLU, LC, and Willamette all at 4-4, five teams who will battle for the last playoff spot, a lot can happen, you can come in anywhere from 3rd place to 7th place.l

Looking forward to heading to LC on Tuesday to catch my Boxers against the Pios, big game for both teams.   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 27, 2008, 09:20:19 PM
Garold Howe is freaking unstoppable right now.  Third seed is up for grabs and I believe L & C is going to turn on their thrusters and finish off the second half strong to take the third seed, and then who knows what happens in the conference tournament
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: 80sshorts on January 27, 2008, 09:20:19 PM
Garold Howe is freaking unstoppable right now.  Third seed is up for grabs and I believe L & C is going to turn on their thrusters and finish off the second half strong to take the third seed, and then who knows what happens in the conference tournament

Maybe LC still has some tough away games...PLU and UPS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 10:23:02 PM
So how did he drop 40 points? Was he just in the zone or what?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 10:45:09 PM
By the way UPS made the front page poll.  We didn't get a large % of the vote, even though I thought we should have :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 27, 2008, 11:31:34 PM
Logshow,  he was doing a lot of work in the post early on, I think that got him going and then made those 3's he knocked down easier.  Brandeberry was trying to guard him but couldn't, then they moved McDaniels over to him and that did nothing either.  VanDomlen was keeping them honest because he got 21 while shooting 10-13 from the field, so that's 26 for 32 from the field for Howe and VanDomlen, pretty good production.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 28, 2008, 01:59:23 PM
I would agree with the production...tough to stop.  Sound like Howe had quite the individual preformance.  Encore against LC tomorrow?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 28, 2008, 02:00:23 PM
The new Top 25 poll should be out today...should be very interesting with all the upsets this weekend.  I could see UPS jumping up to as high as 7th
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 28, 2008, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 28, 2008, 02:00:23 PM
The new Top 25 poll should be out today...should be very interesting with all the upsets this weekend.  I could see UPS jumping up to as high as 7th

I wouldn't be surprised to see them sit right where they are. I don't see huge movement above them, just rearranging.

After watching LC/UPS Friday night and then seeing Hope/Calvin on TV Saturday, I really would love to see a Christmas Tournament with the top NWC and MIAA teams. (Playing here in the PNW of course!)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 28, 2008, 05:43:16 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 28, 2008, 04:06:34 PM
After watching LC/UPS Friday night and then seeing Hope/Calvin on TV Saturday, I really would love to see a Christmas Tournament with the top NWC and MIAA teams. (Playing here in the PNW of course!)

Having not seen other D3 leagues play, it would be really interesting to see some NWC teams match up against another league. I really have no idea how to compare the NWC to the rest of Division 3. Maybe the NWC and SCIAC could do a challenge (like Big10/ACC), doubt it will happen but I think it would be more interesting than the Pios playing a bunch of NAIA schools in the non-conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 28, 2008, 08:05:10 PM
Gene Rivera has set a new LC career blocked shots record with his four blocks against UPS. He now has 80 career blocks, passing Jeff Flowers who finished his Pioneer career with 76 blocks. Rivera also owns the single-game blocking record (6) and single-season blocking record (51). That is not to mention the number of shots he alters or changes completely. As far as the game tomorrow night, if LC plays at all like they did against UPS for 30 minutes and Linfield they should get a win. But that has been there problem the whole year: consistency. So we will just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 28, 2008, 09:18:04 PM
And.........  If Pacific plays the way they did for the first 33 minutes against LC the first time and the way they did the entire game against Linfield then they should get a win............  But as you said at the end Pio20 - we will just have to wait and see.

Congrats to Rivera, that's a sweet accomplishment, especially considering he hasn't even played 2 full years yet.  Also, congrats to my Boxers own Garold Howe, NWC Player of the Week, let's go get em tomorrow!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 28, 2008, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 28, 2008, 02:00:23 PM
The new Top 25 poll should be out today...should be very interesting with all the upsets this weekend.  I could see UPS jumping up to as high as 7th

My bad... Good call!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 28, 2008, 11:21:12 PM
HAIR ALERT: Many of the Pios (at least for sure Toboni,Rivera, Berggren, Robinowitz, and Thierry) are sporting mohawks! Thierry was sporting one against Linfield and now it seems he has convinced the others as well. I would love to see a mohawk winning streak. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 02:51:38 AM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 28, 2008, 10:43:19 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 28, 2008, 02:00:23 PM
The new Top 25 poll should be out today...should be very interesting with all the upsets this weekend.  I could see UPS jumping up to as high as 7th

My bad... Good call!

Just call me the Swami !! 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 02:55:56 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 28, 2008, 09:18:04 PM
And.........  If Pacific plays the way they did for the first 33 minutes against LC the first time and the way they did the entire game against Linfield then they should get a win............  But as you said at the end Pio20 - we will just have to wait and see.

Congrats to Rivera, that's a sweet accomplishment, especially considering he hasn't even played 2 full years yet.  Also, congrats to my Boxers own Garold Howe, NWC Player of the Week, let's go get em tomorrow!!

Congrats to Howe...heck of a game.  I wonder if Williams was a close second. He scored 34 and 25, but did have 9 TOs this weekend
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 29, 2008, 03:02:10 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 28, 2008, 09:18:04 PM
Congrats to Rivera, that's a sweet accomplishment, especially considering he hasn't even played 2 full years yet. 

Yeah I think the other dude set it in 115 games and Rivera has done it in something like 74 games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 03:04:27 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 28, 2008, 11:21:12 PM
HAIR ALERT: Many of the Pios (at least for sure Toboni,Rivera, Berggren, Robinowitz, and Thierry) are sporting mohawks! Thierry was sporting one against Linfield and now it seems he has convinced the others as well. I would love to see a mohawk winning streak. 

Strange team symbol for unity...Ocho Cinco must be their role model.
Are we talking mohawk or fohawk?  Have you ever thought of writing for US or People magazine?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 29, 2008, 03:10:41 AM
They do all look much like Chad's. I turned down People for a stint with better dental benefits at some little rag called the New Yorker. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 29, 2008, 03:12:02 AM
First half has concluded and my Pirates, with head to head win at UPS, hold 1st place.  Great job by a young and obviously talented  team.  UPS looks formidable and will be itching to get even in Spokane no doubt.  LC has disappointed and yet are still in the race for 3rd.  They would be a dangerous team to face in playoffs if they find their groove in second half.  My sleeper is Pacific, and I would have said that if asked prior to last weekend.  Good players, very instinctive.  Linfield will follow UPS and fade and Willamette will make it tough on everybody, but lose some "easy" ones to eliminate postseason hopes.

Thought the first half was fun and exciting....just wait.  

LC should try the hair club for men and while they are at it the choke club for men.  That loss Fri. is not forgotten by 1 home win on Sat.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 12:47:04 PM
Tonights action:

Jan. 29
Pacific at Lewis & Clark

LC is looking for their second home win of league...should be interesting to see what they got in the tank after the roller coaster weekend
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 29, 2008, 03:54:16 PM
Pio20, its more like 42, 43 games Rivera has gotten the record in, 25 regular season games last year plus the two conf tourney games and what - 16 games this year, pretty impressive.

Should be a good game tonight, both teams tied at 4-4, big game.

Just playing devil's advocate here.....  but unless they ALL have mohawks is that true team unity??  Are the ones with the mohawks more "committed" and into the team than the ones without?, does it cause division?, like "why didn't so and so get this ridiculous haircut like the rest of us, not willing to sacrifice?"  Just a thought.

More importantly will the whacked out dos prevent them from blowing 26 point second half leads.....?????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 04:09:22 PM
Would Pac play fast enough to have enough possestions to come back from 26 down?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 29, 2008, 07:00:32 PM
They played fast enough on Saturday against PLU, so it has to be in them, but let's just hope it doesn't come to that ;)

UPS deserves a lot of credit for coming back from 26 down, but giving up a lead of 26 in the SECOND half against ANYONE is unexusable, especially for a team at home picked unanimously to win the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2008, 07:17:43 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 29, 2008, 03:54:16 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here.....  but unless they ALL have mohawks is that true team unity?? 

Yeah. They should just grow mustaches instead. :)

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3football.com%2Fimages%2Fatr%2Fplustache.jpg&hash=ce7498b2ca0161c11196dbafc2fe84cec3282c2e)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 29, 2008, 07:40:52 PM
Everything said is definitely valid..haha. I guess we will have to wait to see if they all have the hawks....and if it comes down to it I would have to believe the mohawks would for sure be the one deciding factor :) Should be a good game! I'm predicting a 83-82 LC win. I think that now as a fan I am no longer expecting a convincing win...over anyone. I wonder if the players feel the same way. Now that they are battling for that third spot maybe they will want it more.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 29, 2008, 09:13:54 PM
I am going to say Pacific wins maybe 78-75.  LC should win but when have they done what they should do this year?  I gotta believe that UPS and Whitworth would prefer LC to not get the 3rd spot.  On paper they are arguably the most dangerous.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 29, 2008, 09:13:54 PM
I am going to say Pacific wins maybe 78-75.  LC should win but when have they done what they should do this year?  I gotta believe that UPS and Whitworth would prefer LC to not get the 3rd spot.  On paper they are arguably the most dangerous.

Yep, same here...They are a enigma, that lives and dies by the 3.  And when they get it going watch out...but if they are cold its a long night for the Pios
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 30, 2008, 12:53:53 AM
Congrats to LC for winning a tough game.  I thought Pacific played well but LC got the job done with Bergren playing tough.  LC is alive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 30, 2008, 12:56:00 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 30, 2008, 12:53:53 AM
Congrats to LC for winning a tough game.  I thought Pacific played well but LC got the job done with Bergren playing tough.  LC is alive.

Yeah alive just barely.  It didn't seem like either team wanted to win the game.  Wonder why Rivera had another DNP?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 30, 2008, 01:00:15 AM
Maybe Rivera was having a bad hair day.  You know what they say "A BHD = DNP"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 30, 2008, 01:28:34 AM
Good win for the Pios as they were able to overcome Tillery fouling out with over six minutes left (again) and a bunch of missed free throws to get the W. Not sure where you are getting Rivera did not play, according to the box score he played 37 minutes. Not the prettiest game, but it's a win and sets up a huge game for the Pios Saturday at PLU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 30, 2008, 02:06:23 AM
Eyewitness report from LC.

1)  Embarassing crowd, more people are at my city league games.  289 in the box score for attendance - yeah right.
2)  Bergrenn's "chip"  tattoo is stupid.  A kid from Tualatin, OR playing college basketball and attending a top notch private institution has a chip on his shoulder?  Come on.
3)  Even with that tattoo he played well, had some nice 1 on 1 plays.
4) Garold Howe can score, had an effortless 29, nobody, including Rivera, could guard him.
5) You never want to blame anything on the refs, but wow - they were bad, I thought Lowry was going to get T, but I think they let him go because they knew they were bad.
6) Very even teams, huge boost for LC to get this one to get closer to that 3rd spot, still a lot of conference left.
7) Good game, just wish there was a better crowd to help the environment.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 30, 2008, 03:16:52 AM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 30, 2008, 01:28:34 AM
Good win for the Pios as they were able to overcome Tillery fouling out with over six minutes left (again) and a bunch of missed free throws to get the W. Not sure where you are getting Rivera did not play, according to the box score he played 37 minutes. Not the prettiest game, but it's a win and sets up a huge game for the Pios Saturday at PLU.

Weird...I am sure that the radio guy said it was tough without Rivera, but they should get him back this weekend.  Well I dunno...disregard the previous comment
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 30, 2008, 06:58:26 AM
1) Rivera did play..and well (4 blocks). Kid is ridiculous. Radio guy might have been referring to Josh Kollasch, who is still out with a sprained knee.
2) The crowd was as expected for a Tuesday night game. People just have stuff to do on a weeknight and you simply are not going to get your casual fans to come out. I was impressed with the crowds Friday and Saturday though.
3) LC may live and die by the three but this game was decided by LC's ability to drive to the basket (28 free throws in the second half). Berggren got whatever he wanted off the dribble all night. Same formula that got a win against Linfield: took care of the ball and went to the foul line/drove to the basket THEN either shot or kicked it out.
4) I was impressed with Pac's offense. They set a ton of screens and are always moving. Harrison-Davis couldn't miss.
5) The refs were terrible. Ridiculous calls against both teams.
6) Big win for LC. The PLU game will be big this weekend. Don't wanna fall back to .500 again.
7) The mohawks were not team-wide, but we did get a win. It will be interesting to see if they continue if the wins continue.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 30, 2008, 10:05:31 PM
Pio20 do you know if LC is expecting Josh Kollasch back any time soon?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 30, 2008, 11:40:37 PM
Word on the street is he will be back not this weekend but next weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 31, 2008, 12:39:39 PM
Tomorrow NWC schedule:


Feb. 1
George Fox at Pacific Lutheran

Willamette at Whitman

Pacific at Puget Sound

Linfield at Whitworth
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 31, 2008, 12:41:27 PM
Big game for WW. I know its at home, so they are probably feeling pretty good about it.  Linfield did catch them sleeping last time.  NWHoops what are you thinking?  To me this is a tough one to call.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 31, 2008, 03:59:59 PM
Does anyone think that UPS or WW will drop a game at home this weekend? I would be really surprised if either lost which would put them both at 9-1 and three games up on 3rd place, pretty much would clinch the top 2 spots.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 31, 2008, 07:03:08 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 31, 2008, 03:59:59 PM
Does anyone think that UPS or WW will drop a game at home this weekend? I would be really surprised if either lost which would put them both at 9-1 and three games up on 3rd place, pretty much would clinch the top 2 spots.

I don't think UPS will.  They played both Pacific and G Fox well on the road in the first round of play.  Should be interesting to see Howe play...I think the Logs will keep him in check with their pressure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 31, 2008, 07:12:06 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 31, 2008, 07:03:08 PM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 31, 2008, 03:59:59 PM
Does anyone think that UPS or WW will drop a game at home this weekend? I would be really surprised if either lost which would put them both at 9-1 and three games up on 3rd place, pretty much would clinch the top 2 spots.

I don't think UPS will.  They played both Pacific and G Fox well on the road in the first round of play.  Should be interesting to see Howe play...I think the Logs will keep him in check with their pressure.

Yeah I see Pacific turning the ball over a lot. I wonder how many minutes their big Van Domelen will get? I guess it depends whether they want to run with UPS or not. In the first matchup Van Domelen did a lot of work inside. He was the high scorer with 14. But Pac had 30 turnovers. If UPS forces them into that many again the result will be the same.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on January 31, 2008, 09:50:26 PM
The NWC is mentioned in around the nation as a conference to watch, nice to see the NWC getting some respect. Is there any way that the NWC could get multiple teams into the NCAA tournament or maybe have games played at a west coast site? When is the last time multiple NWC teams have made the tournament?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 12:32:39 AM
I would be surprised if WW wasn't seeking to avenge their only loss in a BIG way.  A more than decisive victory by the Pirates would be some good medicine, it would also hurt Linfield's chances at third place in a big way.

Home court advantage in playoffs is so huge.  It assures you a very good chance of being in the Tourney, and that is what WW knows is the prize for winning the Conference and Conf. playoffs.  I very much doubt we slip up at home this weekend in either game.

UPS will have their hands full Friday with a hungry team.  I think Pacific is the perfect spoiler in the second half.

Trivia:  WW lost to current #1 Washington in St. Louis last year by 2 pts in the tourney.  No doubt Pirates win that game in Spokane. 

NWC hosting a playoff game is more difficult than it should be.  I think that you must in the top 10 to get the game at home and even then its unguaranteed.  The day a WIAC team travels west is a very fine day.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2008, 12:36:59 AM
I'm sure the WIAC thinks so as well, considering the WIAC won the last tournament game it played in an NWC gym.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 12:45:20 AM
Pat obviously you know about this game and perhaps I should too, but who and when?  Please don't say UPS in 04. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2008, 12:59:21 AM
Quote from: LCPios07 on January 31, 2008, 09:50:26 PMWhen is the last time multiple NWC teams have made the tournament?

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 12:45:20 AM
Pat obviously you know about this game and perhaps I should too, but who and when?  Please don't say UPS in 04. ;D

I usually answer these types of questions, but what I should really do more often is to let the questioner find the answer for himself:

http://www.d3hoops.com/archives/

Just about everything you need to know about D3 basketball is either right here on this site or is linked from here.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 01:26:08 AM
Sager thanks, but why don't you go find THIS for yourself  :o.  Just kidding ;).  Your link is actually much appreciated since few schools keep archives on their sites.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 01, 2008, 01:34:38 AM
In 2001, Linfield and LC both made the tourney. Both teams were 21-6 and Linfield beat Cal Lutheran in the first round and came to Pamplin in the second round and lost to LC 101-89. Then LC went on to lose to #1 Chicago 62-52.

In 2005, Buena Vista, out of the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference came to UPS and lost by three.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2008, 01:45:21 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 01:26:08 AM
Sager thanks, but why don't you go find THIS for yourself  :o.  Just kidding ;).  Your link is actually much appreciated since few schools keep archives on their sites.  Cheers.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll hit you over the head with the fishing rod for not giving him a fish. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 01:54:49 AM
Good stuff Sager.  Speaking of food, I like rice.  I mean what else can you like to eat and go out and have 2000 of?

Yes it was 2004, and UWSP killed UPS and went on to be champ.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2008, 02:01:15 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 01, 2008, 01:34:38 AM
In 2001, Linfield and LC both made the tourney. Both teams were 21-6 and Linfield beat Cal Lutheran in the first round and came to Pamplin in the second round and lost to LC 101-89. Then LC went on to lose to #1 Chicago 62-52.

In 2005, Buena Vista, out of the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference came to UPS and lost by three.

Well pretty much any team that came into Memorial Field House lost...especially in the national tourney.  The list contains Pomona, Buena Vista, and Oxy.  The only team that had the Logger's number was Stevens Point.  Its too bad because UPS had some great teams those years.  If they were in any other bracket I would venture to say they might have made a final four in.  But Point was GOOD both in 04 and 05, and was just too talented for UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2008, 02:02:40 AM
NWHoops, were you at that game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 09:25:49 AM
No I was not.  I know UWSP was loaded that year.  Final was 100-79 which likely means UPS wasn't firing on all cylinders.  (missing 3's)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2008, 12:23:10 PM
Time for some Firday night action predictions:

G Fox @PLU-- PLU should win this one.  They are definately not flying as high as they were 3 weeks ago, they are still in the race for 3rd but I think their confidence is shaken.  Saturn just doesn't have any help around him, but I do think he will help G Fox keep it close.  PLU gets the edge 82-78.

Willamette @Whitman-- Unless Faidley has a career night Whitman won't win...tonight or the rest of league.  75-67 Willamette

Pac @ UPS-- The Logs will roll over Pac.  UPS is just too talented, and Pac really can't handle their pressure (30 TOs last time they met).  Look for Howe to be held around 10 points by the Logger's pressure D.

Linfield @WW-- This is the game of the week.  Linfield handed WW thier only loss of conference.  WW is probably looking for revenge while Linfield should be feeling confident because of their last game.  I think it will come down to Taylor hitting shots on offense and then trying to stop Symes on defense.  This game is huge for both Linfield and WW.  If WW wins they will pretty much seal off 1st or 2nd place in conference.  However if they lose, Linfield is only 1 game down behind WW and very much back in the race.  I think this will be a close battle, Linfield has a chance but I will give WW the nod because they are at home 77-74.  Lot of pressure on WW tonight...should be interesting to see if they step up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 01, 2008, 12:48:42 PM
"I know UWSP was loaded that year.  Final was 100-79 which likely means UPS wasn't firing on all cylinders.  (missing 3's)"

-nwhoops

Um...yeah, Roger that on all accounts.  That was just a rough game all around for UPS, not only was Steven's Point a monster of a team, but we couldnt get anything going that night either.  Even Matt Glynn had an off night and he was a very very very good and consistent player.  UWSP was just an awesome team for those two years though(04,05), we had the oppurtunity to see them up close and personal at their place the next year too.  They were definitely the best D3 team I've ever seen...size, skills, speed, and athletic.  

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 01, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Oh and did I mention UWSP used Kalsow(1st team All-American) as a 6'7 point guard to see and pass directly over the top of our press...yeah, it doesnt work so well when that happens :-\.

Predictions for Friday night....

PLU 72  GF 61

WU  70   WHTM 66

UPS 107  PAC 88

WW 64   Lin 57
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 02:27:17 PM
QuoteLot of pressure on WW tonight...should be interesting to see if they step up.

Logshow you make me laugh sometimes.  WW has less pressure tonight than UPS does in my book. WW has not lost at home and their MOV is outstanding.  UPS has been beat at home in conf. and has sweated 3 of 4 games.  Was Linfield close?  I am guessing it was.

PLU over GF in the 90 point range
Whitman wins first, somehow
UPS gets by Pac, but no 30 TO's by Pac this time
WW embarrasses Linfield just like they did to LC

Nice to see ya UPSSoundLogs.  Missing those glory days?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 01, 2008, 02:45:39 PM
"Nice to see ya UPSSoundLogs.  Missing those glory days?"
-nwhoops

:D Not that particular game...ouch :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 01, 2008, 03:28:08 PM
OK, my Boxers won't turn it over 30 times, they will keep the game in the 70's, and I'll be a coward and leave my prediction at that...

WW hammers Linfield bt 20 plus....

Whitman gets win number 1 in a close one over Willamette.....

Fox slows down PLU again (the last one was in the 60's) and gets win number two.......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2008, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 02:27:17 PM
QuoteLot of pressure on WW tonight...should be interesting to see if they step up.

Logshow you make me laugh sometimes.  WW has less pressure tonight than UPS does in my book. WW has not lost at home and their MOV is outstanding.  UPS has been beat at home in conf. and has sweated 3 of 4 games.  Was Linfield close?  I am guessing it was.


Well true UPS has lost at home, but it was to WW, a very good team.  A lot can be said for UPS winning on the road 4-0.  Maybe UPS has had some close games, but last time I checked you can win by 2 or 20 it still counts in win column.  WW hasn't lost at home yet, but dont think it can't happen.  Also, they still have UPS coming to town.  I believe their last home loss last year was at the hands of the Loggers :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 04:34:52 PM
OXY, How ya doing?  I am specifically referring to WW's home MOV in contrast to UPS's and even more so in  conference games.  Takes some math but they ain't close.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2008, 04:54:27 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 04:34:52 PM
OXY, How ya doing?  I am specifically referring to WW's home MOV in contrast to UPS's and even more so in  conference games.  Takes some math but they ain't close.

Thats only based on 3 games...so Statistics 101 tells us that is really too small of a sample size and any outlier will greatly skew results.  WW had a 30 victory of LC...and then 12 points over G Fox and 17 over Pac.  LC was in a funk and G Fox and Pac aren't exactly great road teams.

But comparing how teams do against other teams isn't really worth much because different matchups, styles, and whether a team is playing well or in a slump influences the outcome of each game differently. 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 01, 2008, 05:45:12 PM
Have to admit I'm a little nervous about the Linfield-Whitworth game tonight.  Two main reasons.

1.  Linfield will have (at least a the beginning) plenty of confidence based on their previous results.
2.  Whitworth has been playing without their big man (Montgomery) and Linfield's 6-8 freshman had a big game against the Pirates last time even with Montgomery in there.  I don't know if Montgomery will be back this weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2008, 06:06:04 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 01, 2008, 05:45:12 PM
Have to admit I'm a little nervous about the Linfield-Whitworth game tonight.  Two main reasons.

1.  Linfield will have (at least a the beginning) plenty of confidence based on their previous results.
2.  Whitworth has been playing without their big man (Montgomery) and Linfield's 6-8 freshman had a big game against the Pirates last time even with Montgomery in there.  I don't know if Montgomery will be back this weekend.


Thats being more of the voice of reason.  If WW had beaten Linfield in their first meeting, I wouldn't have even thought twice about the game.  I think WW will win, but I just don't think it will be a cake walk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on February 01, 2008, 07:03:54 PM
I said way back after I had only seen Linfield in their second game and WW in their first that the two would split, each winning at home. No need to change now. I do not think it will be a blow out. The Cats got that out of their system at Pacific. I hope! :-[

Have fun all, I'm stuck going to a D-II game Saturday. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2008, 08:42:17 PM
Roll them up Loggers, let have a good game tonight!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2008, 09:10:22 PM
Everybody have fun tonight.  Hopefully Linfield will Wang Chung tonight.

My little comment stirred up quite the ruckus  :P.  Point is that conference is what its about. 3 games 4 games 5....don't matter.  WW is good at home this year and has the wins to prove it.  UPS can't say the same..thats all.  Do I think UPS is good?  Absolutely!  Do I like WW more? Absolutely.  Had we lost in Tacoma I would have my mouth shut.  Go Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 02, 2008, 01:40:10 AM
Haven't seen the box but looks like UPS handled Pacific well.  Good game.  My Pirates controlled the game and defeated Linfield by 9.  PLU wins and Whitman loses. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 04:52:07 AM
UPS looked strong tonight...a bit sloppy but they handled their business.  Way to get it done!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 12:51:34 PM
The loggers forced 34 TOs last night...pretty impressive.  They also held Howe to only  12 points.  I'd say thats a pretty good defensive effort.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 12:52:25 PM
Here are tonight games:

Linfield at Whitman

Lewis & Clark at Pacific Lutheran

Willamette at Whitworth

George Fox at Puget Sound

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on February 02, 2008, 12:56:10 PM
For those of you logger fans headed to Memorial Fieldhouse tonight, I'd encourage you to put your manly hood on hold and wear pink in support the "Think Pink" where the Loggers will be supporting Breast Cancer Awareness.  (http://www.ups.edu/x26028.xml)

If not, just come ready to cheer on our men & women!  Should be some good basketball!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 02, 2008, 02:22:50 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 12:51:34 PM
The loggers forced 34 TOs last night...pretty impressive.  They also held Howe to only  12 points.  I'd say thats a pretty good defensive effort.

Well Done!  UPS needs efforts like that to impress voters.  It would be cool to see UPS in top 5 by the time they come to Spokane.  This, of course, would make our victory even more impressive. :P

It will be interesting to see how the LC v PLU game goes.  Is LC serious?  Willamette will be gunning for us but I think we will hold them off.  Symes is really playing well and presents many matchup problems.  WW 81-65
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 02, 2008, 03:05:33 PM
My predictions:

Linfield 81 Whitman 69

Lewis & Clark 67 Pacific Lutheran 60

Whitworth 71 Willamette 66 

Puget Sound 89 George Fox 80

Pios have Rivera back for PLU this time. Huge game for both teams. Big difference between 6-4 and 5-5. I'm road tripping up to Tacoma to see the game! Never been to PLU's court. Go Pios!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 04:21:12 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 02, 2008, 02:22:50 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 12:51:34 PM
The loggers forced 34 TOs last night...pretty impressive.  They also held Howe to only  12 points.  I'd say thats a pretty good defensive effort.

Well Done!  UPS needs efforts like that to impress voters.  It would be cool to see UPS in top 5 by the time they come to Spokane.  This, of course, would make our victory even more impressive. :P


:D we will see about that one!  WW still needs to get through Willamette tonight, and then LC and Pacific next week on the road...then UPS comes to town.  WW has some tough games coming up.  If they can make it through the next 3 it will be a huge weekend in Spokane against the Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 02, 2008, 05:09:32 PM
"WW has some tough games coming up."

Logshow - no gimmes for UPS next week either - at PLU and at Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 05:29:51 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 02, 2008, 05:09:32 PM
"WW has some tough games coming up."

Logshow - no gimmes for UPS next week either - at PLU and at Linfield.

Very true, very true :). The one @ Linfield is a scarey one
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 02, 2008, 08:52:08 PM
Good luck tonight Logs! Get after those Bruins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 02, 2008, 09:50:55 PM
Logshow, were you at the game last night?  Did it look as bad as it did in the box score ??? :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2008, 12:49:53 AM
WW plays poorly and have lost.  Willamette's Cameron Mitchell played very well as did the rest of his team.
No excuses other than Pirates never got on track.  Hats off to WIL.

Looks like a full moon.  GF is leading UPS with :15 to play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2008, 12:56:50 AM
Yes Fox wins, Krauel at the line with 3 seconds to go down 1 and CHOKES - misses both, Fox wins 78-77, what a conference
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2008, 12:59:12 AM
UPS, not Krauel, chokes.  Never should have come to that.  Both WW and UPS miss huge chance tonight but hey, thats NWC conference basketball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2008, 01:00:34 AM

Upsetville is right nwhoops, teams picked to finish 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all lose tonight, and two of them at home.

LC gets swept by PLU, wow.  What a great trip for Willamette, other than UPS, who's the last team to sweep that trip?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2008, 01:01:37 AM
OK, UPS chokes too, but you're an all leaguer Krauel, you HAVE to make 1 at least!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2008, 01:11:34 AM
Whitworth and UPS have to be shocked, but then I'm sure they'll sigh just a bit when they find out the other lost............

Tough home losses heading on two tough trips next weekend, Whitworth at LC and Pac, and UPS at PLU and Linfied (followed by the Eastern Washington trip the next weekend).  It's a battle for 1st, although I think they're both still safe to be in the conference tourney, but we all may have taken a HUGE hit as far as the conference getting an at-large bid and getting 2 in the tourney.

Congrats to Willamette and Fox, great wins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2008, 01:19:09 AM
Just looking at the UPS/Fox box score, 20-32 from the line (Kraeul 6-13 including those final two, OUCH!), 3-16 from 3, and a Technical Foul in a 1 point game.................

Where was that last night when they spanked my Boxers ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 03, 2008, 01:37:48 AM
You may wish to reconsider future use of the word "spanked" with Boxers ...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 03, 2008, 03:03:02 AM
OK, trying to digest this:

UPS and Whitworth both lose at home on the same night?
L&C is 5-5 and in sixth place after ten games of the NWC schedule?

Wow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 03:31:54 AM
pretty much at a loss for words.  Really palyed poorly tonight.  I was embarassed to watch the game tonight.  We didn't play hard and let G Fox walk all over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2008, 03:33:40 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 03, 2008, 01:37:48 AM
You may wish to reconsider future use of the word "spanked" with Boxers ...
Well said!!  

3 way tie for third.  PLU hangs in there.  Wil must be feeeling good and then Linfield who probably don't think they are the third best.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 03:34:48 AM
Everyone can say we choked...because we did.  But it wasn't just at the end, it was the entire game.  It was an uninspired effort, Foster played well, but defensively we were awful and we just were uninterested for the entire first half.  What a shame.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2008, 03:35:37 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 03:31:54 AM
We didn't play hard and let G Fox walk all over.

Foster was the only guy busting his hump I take it.  He seemed inspired and impressive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2008, 03:37:52 AM
WW played the same way in the first half tonight as UPS did all game, as you say.  I was at a loss for the lack of intensity. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 03:41:42 AM
Is it human nature to eventaully let your guard down?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 03:47:25 AM
Because I thought the UPS and WW were better then that
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 03:51:38 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2008, 03:35:37 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 03:31:54 AM
We didn't play hard and let G Fox walk all over.

Foster was the only guy busting his hump I take it.  He seemed inspired and impressive.

Yep he played a heck of a game...nobody was effective besides him.

But it wasn't really our offense.  It was the defense.  Saturn did whatever he pleased out there.  UPS did not impose their will at all defensively
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 01:51:43 PM
League Standings after 10 games:

UPS                 8-2
WW                 8-2
Linfield            6-4
PLU                 6-4
Willamette      6-4
LC                   5-5
Pacific             4-6
G Fox              2-8
Whitman         0-10
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2008, 03:10:17 PM
Logshow, your sounding like a lack of focus, passion from UPS was a factor.  Anybody know, since 2004 when UPS started their run, on which night, Fridays or Saturdays, did most of their losses come on.  I would think that naturally they'll play with that fire that is them more on Friday nights and that it's easier to knock them off on a Saturday where their may be challenges occasionally for them to duplicate that fire that is necessary for their system.  Just a theory, interested to hear thoughts.  I think this Friday-Saturday set up is tough for everyone and plays a major factor in the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 03, 2008, 03:27:30 PM
Wow I was shocked to wake up and find that both UPS and Whitworth lost! I went to PLU last night and really like their gym. Unfortunately their crowd was dead silent the entire game until PLU made the winning shot. Say you want about the size of LC crowds but the 20 or so LC students that made the trip were eight times as into it as the whole PLU crowd. That aside, LC came out of the gates struggling. They were lucky the weren't down more going into half. It seemed like the whole game the loose balls and close misses all went PLU's way. Every time the Pios cut it to 9 it would go back to 11. Then Robinowitz hit a few threes and we were back in it. The Pios did a great job of not letting Dressler get open off screens in the second half. Then Robiniwitz got fouled shooting a three with 8 seconds left and made all three to tie it up. Sure enough though the Pios let PLU bring the ball down the floor without any real resistance and Dressler stopped near the free throw line and found a cutter who made the layup over Rivera's outstretched arms. Another disappointing loss for LC. Another inconsistent performance. Hard to climb over three teams for a playoff spot...but as we have seen anything is possible in this conference. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: rms78645 on February 03, 2008, 09:38:32 PM
Our students are out on break. Not to say that we have a huge student body normally, but J term has just finished. We won't have a student body for the UPS game either. Our kids need to take notes from the Linfield guys. They were amazing when we played them. You couldn't hear anything in the gym the entire night except them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2008, 11:59:53 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 03, 2008, 03:10:17 PM
Logshow, your sounding like a lack of focus, passion from UPS was a factor.  Anybody know, since 2004 when UPS started their run, on which night, Fridays or Saturdays, did most of their losses come on.  I would think that naturally they'll play with that fire that is them more on Friday nights and that it's easier to knock them off on a Saturday where their may be challenges occasionally for them to duplicate that fire that is necessary for their system.  Just a theory, interested to hear thoughts.  I think this Friday-Saturday set up is tough for everyone and plays a major factor in the conference.

Well NWCer I did some digging.  Since 2004 UPS only lost on Friday nights. Once in 2004 @ Willamette beat LC the next night.
Once in 2005 lost @G Fox won @ Linfield the next night. and 2006 @Willamette then won @Linfield and @WW then won at Whitman.

This is the first year UPS has lost 2 home games since 2002.  Its been awhile, and both of the losses this year have been on Saturday...actually all 3 if you want to throw the Westmont game in there.  Weird trend, that hasnt happened before.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 12:03:59 AM
I still can't put my finger on what went wrong last night.  Part, or maybe most of the problem was I felt that G Fox out competed UPS.  The style UPS plays demands for everyone to play extremely hard.  They seem to have lapses and check out sometimes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 12:36:54 AM
What about last year Logshow, 2007?  I know they lost at Pacific on a Saturday, I was at that one.  And what night was it they lost their other 4, I think it was Willamette, LC, Whitman, and Fox.......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 12:43:35 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 12:36:54 AM
What about last year Logshow, 2007?  I know they lost at Pacific on a Saturday, I was at that one.  And what night was it they lost their other 4, I think it was Willamette, LC, Whitman, and Fox.......

Ah...you're right!  I guess that part of last year was erased from my memory! :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 12:47:27 AM
Last year was also the first time since 2002 that UPS got swept on a weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 12:48:54 AM
Where you at both UPS games this weekend Logshow?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 12:52:19 AM
Yeah I was...talk about Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 12:54:18 AM
What was the difference, how can they cream Pac (didn't say my Boxers with that Pat! :D) and then fall to Fox?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 01:01:43 AM
Not really sure...maybe they over looked G Fox.  UPS came out really flat and looked uninterested the first half, but I have no idea why.  They tried to make up for it in the 2nd, but couldn't hit freethrows or stop G Fox from scoring.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2008, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 12:54:18 AM
What was the difference, how can they cream Pac (didn't say my Boxers with that Pat! :D) and then fall to Fox?

Wow, thanks for that!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 01:09:56 AM
Now that I think about it.  G Fox pretty much beat UPS with 2 players...Saturn and Atwater.  Atwater hit some tough shots and Saturn is just a tough, good player.  He beat the pressure and scored or dished.  He can really set people up...I bet his teammates love playing with him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 01:11:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2008, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 12:54:18 AM
What was the difference, how can they cream Pac (didn't say my Boxers with that Pat! :D) and then fall to Fox?

Wow, thanks for that!

Yeah good thing, that post could have been wrong is so many ways!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 04, 2008, 01:30:07 AM
Satern not the planet is a good senior guard.  He has come a long way since I saw UPS dismantle him at GF last year with like 13 TO's in first half.  I was there and it was brutal.  I think the other guy Atwater, had a much better game and then he almost tossed it when he turned it over up by 1.

Saturday games are likely more difficult for teams because of fatigue.  Fri-Sat back to backs will continue as long as not missing classes is the criteria and expenses.  This is D3 and NWC does have some mileage between schools.  It is all natural. 

All that being said, I do think WW and UPS played pooooooorrrrrrrly on Sat.  But if you play poorly, you might very well LOSE.  The UPS win for GF is more surprising then the WIL win at WW to me.  WIL is still strongly in the hunt for playoffs and has been giving a good effort every game all conf.  I hope they get 3rd and have to come back to Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2008, 01:31:56 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 01:11:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2008, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 12:54:18 AM
What was the difference, how can they cream Pac (didn't say my Boxers with that Pat! :D) and then fall to Fox?

Wow, thanks for that!

Yeah good thing, that post could have been wrong is so many ways!

I don't suppose it would help at all if your team switched from 'Boxers' to 'Briefs'? ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 01:34:35 AM
Had to watch myself, Pat jumped me for using "spanked" and "my Boxers" together before.

I'm with you Logshow, I think Satern is a quality PG, speaking of PG's, I look forward to seeing Whitworth's transfer PG when they come to the grove.

Whitworth (LC and Pac) and UPS (PLU and Linfield) have a couple tough trips coming up, how do you see them going?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 01:37:07 AM
nwhoops, I agree that Fox's win is a bit more stunning than Willamette's.  Satern was dominated at Fox last year?, didn't Fox win that one too?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 04, 2008, 01:39:00 AM
Quote from: rms78645 on February 03, 2008, 09:38:32 PM
Our students are out on break. Not to say that we have a huge student body normally, but J term has just finished. We won't have a student body for the UPS game either. Our kids need to take notes from the Linfield guys. They were amazing when we played them. You couldn't hear anything in the gym the entire night except them.

Ah that explains it. There were definitely a lot of parents and others there. Seems like there would be a real good crowd if the students were there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 04, 2008, 01:43:42 AM
Mr. Yipsi, don't think they'll change to "Briefs", the "Boxer" is pretty unique - http://www.goboxers.com/traditions/boxer.cfm



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 04, 2008, 01:56:56 AM
I think the WW trip is easily more difficult.  LC wants  respect and Pac is Pac.  They play better at home.

PLU will be playing very hard for their first good chance to beat UPS in a long time but its not a "travel" trip.  LF game would be fun to watch, if UPS lost to PLU Tues.

My memory is a bit fuzzy on Satern's bad game, it was bad whenever it happened.  lol   point is that he is playing better than ever.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 04, 2008, 12:10:10 PM
I didn't see the Fox game on Saturday night, but was there for the win against Pacific on Friday.  Pacific can't handle UPS pressure and there wasn't a moment of that game when it appeared that Pac could even make it close.  UPS was up defensively with the proverbial blood on the water, but offensively they were extremely sloppy, a little too much french pastry if you ask me....was this an issue on Saturday? 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Do-Work25 on February 04, 2008, 12:55:29 PM
Well, this weekend was more than a bit disappointing for Logger fans.

My observations -

Loggers just didn't have people who wanted to win. They thought it would just "happen" as a team, they didn't want to do anything about it. Everyone looked to someone else. Foster had an incredible night. He was the only one who could score for them that night. Kraul had normal numbers, freethrows aside, played a fairly good game. Might have just been fatigue?

Second half of the season is a gear up time and after a big win on Friday could have made them lathargic for Saturday.

A common problem I have noticed, and it may just be me, is that when UPS gets into a trouble situation...Williams simply tries to do too much. Although there are times when he is highly affective i.e. LC - but then there are other times when his offense is just not clicking he needs to tone it down a bit - he is a tremendous player, but part of the responsibilities of the pg position is to recognize when a players game is off and find who's hot. I think it was just an off night for the UPS team in general.

Bottom Line: Foster should have touched the ball every time down the floor for the he/the team was playing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on February 04, 2008, 01:15:38 PM
Satern and Atwater did play a huge role in that game, and there's no doubt that the Bruins would have been able to win that game without the shooting performance of Atwater, but on the other hand I think it was really a huge joint effort on GFU's part.  There were a couple reserves who usually don't play that often (Campbell and Ahn) and they were in the mix for quite a while late in the game and were able to make plays.  Really GFU did a good job of protecting the ball, despite the fact that they had 21 turnovers.  The Bruins are a solid defensive team and that night they did just enough on offense to get by.  However Jason Foster played like a beast, and GFU had no answers for him.  I was sort of surprised that UPS didn't get him the ball late in the game, but they did have a chance to win...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 02:28:25 PM
Quote from: Do-Work25 on February 04, 2008, 12:55:29 PM
Well, this weekend was more than a bit disappointing for Logger fans.

My observations -

Loggers just didn't have people who wanted to win. They thought it would just "happen" as a team, they didn't want to do anything about it. Everyone looked to someone else. Foster had an incredible night. He was the only one who could score for them that night. Kraul had normal numbers, freethrows aside, played a fairly good game. Might have just been fatigue?

Second half of the season is a gear up time and after a big win on Friday could have made them lathargic for Saturday.

A common problem I have noticed, and it may just be me, is that when UPS gets into a trouble situation...Williams simply tries to do too much. Although there are times when he is highly affective i.e. LC - but then there are other times when his offense is just not clicking he needs to tone it down a bit - he is a tremendous player, but part of the responsibilities of the pg position is to recognize when a players game is off and find who's hot. I think it was just an off night for the UPS team in general.

Bottom Line: Foster should have touched the ball every time down the floor for the he/the team was playing.

Thats an interesting observation Do-Work.  I hadn't really thought about that but do see it now that you mention it.  Looking at the stats, over the past 4 games Williams has 20 turnovers probably resulting from trying to do too much.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 02:42:46 PM
I may be wrong but if its not a big game it seems like UPS just doesn't get up for it(which seems hard to believe)...especially at home losing to G Fox and then Whitman last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 04, 2008, 06:55:01 PM
Rough weekend for the Loggers... :P :-[ :-\That GFox game was one that they shouldnt lose, especially at home.  They lost a great oppurtunity to get back into 1st place in the hunt for the NWC title.  I wasnt able to make the games this weekend but in general I agree with Logshow on how UPS has been performing so far this year.  They are EASILY the most talented and athletic group in the conference, yet they never seem to act interested in the beginning of games.  It's not until they are down that they actually start to play hard. If they played with more intensity consistently nobody would touch them.  It's sad but true.  Hopefully they can find something to motivate themselves into playing with a little more fire, game in and game out. 

Not to get too down on them though, they still have a great record, are still in a tie for first place, and still have a lot of bball to play.  Every team slips up, hopefully they will use this loss to focus and finish out the regular season strong.  If they can stay motivated every game and I'm sure coach Lunt will get them there, I think they can have a great second half of the year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 08:50:48 PM
Thats true SoundLogs...its time for them to turn their attention towards PLU and tomorrows game.  Its a big one!  Hopefully the Loggers will be a better job on McDaniels, this time around.  Foster Vs. McDaniels is going to be a great match-up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 04, 2008, 11:59:47 PM
UPS falls from #7 to #13 in the top 25. Whitworth gets 12 votes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 12:35:00 AM
Yeah no suprise there...I actually thought UPS might drop more
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2008, 12:55:25 AM
They would've, but there were other losses to consider.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 02:11:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2008, 12:55:25 AM
They would've, but there were other losses to consider.

Good point...there were lots of upsets this weekend
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 05, 2008, 11:55:32 AM
I think I wil go watch the game tonight.  Anyone else?  Might be close, might not.  I can see PLU winning at the buzzer or UPS winning by 17.  Both make sense.

I don't see PLU winning by 10+ or UPS less than 3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 12:37:03 PM
I think I am going to try to make it.

If the Loggers want to play defense then I think they will be just fine.  That includes not letting McDaniels catch the ball.  But if they come out with the same intensity as the Fox game...if could be a long night.

I don't think that will happen for two reasons.
1) Its a cross town rival game away...UPS seems to turn in their best preformances on the road.

2) They get a chance to redeem themselves for Saturday's loss, and that is great motivation.  UPS has been good at bouncing back from losses with strong preformances.  UPS still has a lot to prove, and tonight is the first step to bring the conference title back to Tacoma.   I think the seniors and Foster will have the Logs raring to go.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 05, 2008, 12:43:38 PM
Can you imagine this team without Foster?  They might be 4-5.  Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 01:45:20 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 05, 2008, 12:43:38 PM
Can you imagine this team without Foster?  They might be 4-5.  Am I wrong?

He is playing extemely well right now, and we definately wouldn't have been close in the Fox game without him. It's great to see him playing up the the potential that he has. I don't know if they would have that many losses becuase it seems like different people have stepped up for different games.  The great thing about UPS is that it really is a team effort.

Like I said its going to be a great matchup for Foster tonight against McDaniels.  I know that Foster will get his points against McDaniels, but what I am really interested in is if he really tries to limit and shut-down McDaniels.  Scoring 25 is impressive, but but doing that while limiting the opponent to half their season average is outstanding and the mark of a truely great player.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Chuck_Curtis on February 05, 2008, 02:05:21 PM
Hi all, I'm new here.  I thought I would chime in because tonight is a really big game for my team, PLU.  We have a chance to end a 10 game losing streak to UPS.  The win would also give the Lutes a huge boost in our chances at making the NWC playoffs.  I really hope our crowd gets into the game more than last Saturday against L&C.  If anything UPS fans tend to get our fans all riled up.  It does stink though that our students are on a week long break right now.  Anyway, I'm looking forward to a great game, but I don't think I could handle another double overtime loss, that game took a few years off my life!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 03:06:01 PM
10 games is a long time...the only other team that is also at 9 games is Linfield (who the Loggers play on Friday)

It's kind of ironic UPS can never beat PLU or Linfield in football.  PLU had like a 15 year win streak in football.  UPS only has a 5 year win streak in basketball, but they play two games a year...so I guess that would make it 10 in football years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Chuck_Curtis on February 05, 2008, 03:56:52 PM
Speaking of win streaks, UPS technically had a 29 year win streak over PLU in basketball from 1968-1997, although the two teams did not play each other once from 1977-1997.  Put that win streak into football years and it's just ugly  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 05:02:26 PM
Thats amazing that two schools so close didn't even play each other once in 20 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 08:18:14 PM
Well its time for the Loggers to show what they got inside of them.  I am expecting a big game from them and that they will come out of the gate fired up!  Good Luck!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Chuck_Curtis on February 06, 2008, 01:24:29 AM
Well, another outstanding PLU-UPS basketball game, another overtime, and another PLU loss. The crowd was the biggest I've seen in four years, and both sides were really into the game.  Williams' last second shot bounced around on the rim for a second or two, but of course, it went in.  It was a heart breaker, but one heck of a game too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 06, 2008, 02:28:14 AM
Wow what a game!  UPS really battled, and didnt get any help.  But they pulled through at the end!

Will post more tomorrow....the streak lives on!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:02 PM
I don't know about everyone else, but of the third place contenders, all of which I have seen play this season, PLU really sticks out to me as legit. I see them being the third seed in the playoff. They also have two games against Linfield left as well as one against Willamette, so they can easily pick up games against the teams ahead of them right now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Chuck_Curtis on February 06, 2008, 07:31:49 PM
PLU has it's next three games on the road, Willamette, Whitworth, and Whitman.  If they can take two of those three I think they'll be in good shape.  The Lutes have Linfield and Pacific at home for their final two games.  PLU lost both those games on the road but being in the Big-O will help our chances.  PLU has only lost twice at home this year, to Whitworth & UPS, by a combined total of five points.  I'm really excited to see Linfield in action too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 06, 2008, 09:54:19 PM
Wanted to say congrats again to the Loggers for their hard fought victory last night.  PLU played a heck of a game, and they are definately a good team.  But the Logs came through when it mattered the most!

Quick points about the game. UPS played hard, PLU made some plays and Dressler hit some big shots.  As I have said befroe, UPS can really play D when they want to.  One player who I was very impressed with last night was Walker.  He is a role player that really works hard.  He was all over the place last night and had some huge steals.  We spend a lot of time talking about the big guns, but UPS has some great supporting players that deserve some credit too (Wood, Walker, Boyce, and Brown).

Two concerns I do have are: 1) Turnovers- UPS had lots of unforced or careless TOs. They have to cut those down...20 a game won't cut it.
2) Lack of 3-point shooting...they were 5-17 last night, yikes.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2008, 12:24:49 AM
I went to the game and the PLU support was very good.  The place was loud and there was plenty of logger fans too.  The atmosphere was exactly what makes college basketball such a special thing. 

The game....WOW a thrilla.  Both teams wanted this game bad and when either would let up, the other would make a move.  In my book, PLU should have won in regulation.  Free throw misses cost PLU bigtime.  Had they not missed a couple of big ones, PLU would have been in a much better position to ward off UPS's final push.  Oh well.  Congrats to Loggers for winning a tough game.

If life was fair, UPS loses last night but beats GF last Sat.  COLLEGE HOOPS IS NOT FAIR.  NWC is tough.  My Pirates have a big test at LC.  I was hoping a PLU win would give us a small, if even a very small cushion.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 07, 2008, 12:35:13 AM
NWHoops, how are you feeling about WW game at LC?  Obviously confident...cause they are your team.  But are you worried at all?  It is a huge game for WW and LC is fighting for their playoff life (not to mention payback for the 30 point drubbing in Spokane).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2008, 11:11:22 AM
I don't think the LC game is by any means a W.  I think we will have to play harder and better than LC at every position.  When we play with focus and defensive intensity we are very good.  If we do not, we are beatable. 

The guard positions are so critical in our Conf.  LC's backcourst has a tremendous NWC experience advantage over ours and so Nakamura and Riley must play like veterans for us to win decisively.  Fortunately, our point guard leads the nation in assist to TO ratio and Tillery leads the world in dumb fouls (unverified stat). :P

I am also concerned about our ability to overcome a 10+ deficit.  If we get a lead early, we tend to take control.  Get out front on us by 8-9 in the first 7-8 minutes and we are in some potential trouble. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 07, 2008, 01:00:42 PM
QuoteTillery leads the world in dumb fouls

Lol...probably true

QuoteI am also concerned about our ability to overcome a 10+ deficit.  If we get a lead early, we tend to take control.  Get out front on us by 8-9 in the first 7-8 minutes and we are in some potential trouble.

That's an interesting observation.  Do you think it's a lack of confidence?  Maybe their lack of experience leads to dispair if they get down early?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 07, 2008, 01:29:07 PM
UPS has played in a lot of close games this year, lots of times coming down to overtime.

They have already played 3 OT games this year, inlcuding a double OT against PLU.  They have won all 3 OT games.  Interesting that both the PLU games were decided in overtime this year.

Last year the Logs played 2 OT games including the unforgettable 3 OT thriller against Willamette, and were 2-0 in both OT games.  So that's 5-0 for the past 2 year.

The total overtime periods played for last year and this year is 8!

The 3 years that UPS won the conference title 04-06.  UPS only had 2 overtime games, both coming in 2004.  Both were Logger wins.

Suprisingly the Logs are 7-0 in OT games.  Sure does make for some exciting games...but I bet Lunt would prefer a 15 point win :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 07, 2008, 05:26:33 PM
"I am also concerned about our ability to overcome a 10+ deficit.  If we get a lead early, we tend to take control.  Get out front on us by 8-9 in the first 7-8 minutes and we are in some potential trouble." - nwhoops1903

nwhoops makes a very valid point.  But I don't think it has anything to do with confidence.  It has everything to do with style.  This year the Pirates are like their football team was, defensive and grind it out on offense.  When that kind of team gets ahead, it can dictate tempo and control the flow.  When that kind of team gets behind, that style makes it harder to make sustained offensive runs.

Whitworth expended so much energy just to catch up against Willamette last weekend, they were spent when it came time to make the final push over the top.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 07, 2008, 07:00:07 PM
Here is the conference schedule for tomorrow night:

Feb 8th
Whitman @Pac
WW @LC
UPS @Linfield
Willamette @ G Fox
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2008, 04:08:52 AM
Pinecone is right.  It has nothing to do with confidence.  I think WW believes in themselves and is not surprised to be on or near the top.  WW needs to dictate the style/tempo to be dominant like they were against LC at home.  They can still win games where they relax becasue they are good and have talent, but I am sure WW coaches prefer the defensive intensity style over anything else.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 08, 2008, 04:48:42 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2008, 04:08:52 AM
Pinecone is right.  It has nothing to do with confidence.  I think WW believes in themselves and is not surprised to be on or near the top.  WW needs to dictate the style/tempo to be dominant like they were against LC at home.  They can still win games where they relax becasue they are good and have talent, but I am sure WW coaches prefer the defensive intensity style over anything else.

Yeah I agree...I was just throwing out different thoughts.  This weekend is huge for WW especially tomorrow night at LC.  If they get both...look out next weekend will esstentially be for the conference title!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 08, 2008, 12:50:37 PM
Anyone have thoughts on this weekend's games?

Pio20, how are you feeling about the big game tonight?  LC isn't out of the race yet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 08, 2008, 01:34:09 PM
I'm feeling like we have to win..haha. I mean at this point, we basically need everything to go our way in order to get that third spot. That includes winning out. I will say this much, we have always played better with our back to the wall. This includes the season and games when we were down. We simply play not to lose when we are up in a game instead of playing to win. That being said, I don't see us scoring 33 points again. That game was a fluke. Of course, I give a ton of credit to Whitworth's defense, but we struggled to make a shot as well. I really have no idea what to expect tonight. I think either we come out wanting to win every game or we come out giving up on a very disappointing season. I think we need a big game from Tillery. We need to take the ball inside, even if that means penetrating off one-on-one matchups. One of our problems is we have no real offense, we don't set picks or screens or really do anything but play one-on-one. So if Tillery can stay out of foul trouble and penetrate and either take it all the way or kick it out then we can be ok. Otherwise, as with the UPS game, we end up standing around and then missing a three. But, like I said, really no idea what to expect tonight.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 08, 2008, 01:46:06 PM
I'm going to take your bait Logshow and throw out some predictions............

Whitworth 65, LC 54, played at a slower pace than LC likes...........

UPS 110, Linfield 109, OT, UPS keeps winning the close ones..........

George Fox 68, Willamette 64, George Fox uses the UPS win to propel them to a strong finish with 5 of the last 6 at home

Pacific 78, Whitman 65, Pacific gets it done at home against the Missionaries.........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 08, 2008, 02:09:16 PM
QuoteI'm going to take your bait Logshow and throw out some predictions............

Thats what I like to hear!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 08, 2008, 02:14:18 PM
WW @ LC  Tough to call, think its a toss up.  If LC hits some 3's they could win.  As I usually do I will give them the nod, only because they are at home.  70-68

UPS @ Linfield  This is always a tough game for the Loggers.  I can't stand another OT game NWCer! Hopefully the Logs will take care of business, it will be a tight game though.  UPS 101-98

Willamette @ G Fox  I think Willamette will get this one.  Amazingly they are still in the hunt, even with a decimated roster.  74-69

Whitman @ Pacific  Pac is playing better and Whitman is terrible.  Pac 70-60.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 08, 2008, 02:24:33 PM
My predictions,

LC breaks out of their shell, hits a bunch of 3's, and  takes one from WW... LC 64  WW 61

UPS will start out slow, get behind by 15 then come roaring back with about 10 minutes to go and get the close win...UPS 106 Lin 101

WU will play a tough game as they have been all year, but Gfox will be too much at home with a new found confidence after beating UPS...GF 79  WU 70

Pac will roast Whitman because Whitman is god aweful...Pac 79 Whitman 65, Faidley will have half their points. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 08, 2008, 02:36:13 PM
LC comes back after being down 10 with 6 minutes to win 69-67.
Linfield upsets UPS 89-88.
George Fox tops Willamette 85-78.
Pacific wins over Whitman 91-74.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on February 08, 2008, 05:45:15 PM
The Pios have been so up and down this year, not just game to game but from half to half, who knows what will happen tonight. I think the game will be played at a slower pace and probably in the 60's so it will be up to the Pios defense to come up with some big stops. I think they game definitely comes down to the last few possessions, and I think LC gets the upset in a game similar to the one in Portland last year. LC 65 WW 61

Other games, I think Linfield pulls off the upset 83-82
Fox over Willamette 72-68
Pacific over Whitman 78-61
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2008, 07:57:58 PM
I will predict this..if UPS loses - WW loses.  If WW wins - UPS wins.  There is balance in the force.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 09, 2008, 12:55:51 AM
I was correct both WW and UPS lose.  Amazing.

93-82 Linfield
75-65 LC




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 09, 2008, 02:43:18 AM
That was the best overall game I have seen the Pios play. Defensively, they shut down Symes. Fronted him all game and refused to let him get the ball. Toboni did a great job on him and set the tone early defensively by laying out for a ball. I knew WW would make a run, and actually I was pretty sure we would give up the lead late again but we held tough and made free throws. Sellereit was huge for WW. His rainbow threes were all but perfect. He would have cut the lead to three within one minute but his three rattled out. WW was also hurt by an intentional foul late by Jerry Beverly. He plowed through Nick Thierry and then stepped over him arrogantly and if he didnt get the foul the technical was coming. That gave Thierry two free throws and the Pios the ball back and pretty much locked it up. Solid win for the Pios. Still breathing!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 01:41:07 PM
 :-[ :-\ :( ???  oh man...what is the Logger's deal?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 09, 2008, 12:55:51 AM
I was correct both WW and UPS lose.  Amazing.

93-82 Linfield
75-65 LC





Isn't that weird...just like clock work
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 01:58:31 PM
Was anyone at the Linfield/UPS game?  How did the Loggers let Linfield shoot 72.7% the second half.  The Loggers have a real tough time playing with the lead.  It is typical Logger fashion of the past two years to let teams back in the game, and make every game close.

What an up and down season...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 09, 2008, 02:03:11 PM
On Jan 15th I posted that the conf. champ would have 3 losses.  Looks like it might be 4 or could it even be 5?  LF looks strong for a berth.

Puget Sound            9-3
Whitworth                8-3
Linfield                     7-4
Lewis & Clark           6-5
Pacific Lutheran        6-5 
Willamette                6-5
Pacific                       5-6
George Fox               3-8 
Whitman                   0-11
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 02:21:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 09, 2008, 02:03:11 PM
On Jan 15th I posted that the conf. champ would have 3 losses.  Looks like it might be 4 or could it even be 5?  LF looks strong for a berth.

Puget Sound            9-3
Whitworth                8-3
Linfield                     7-4
Lewis & Clark           6-5
Pacific Lutheran        6-5 
Willamette                6-5
Pacific                       5-6
George Fox               3-8 
Whitman                   0-11


It has just been a crazy season.  Everyone is beating everyone up and nobody is can escape.  The 3rd place team will more then likely have a league record of 9-7...last year it was 11-5
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 02:46:20 PM
Here is tonights schedule:

Feb. 9
Whitman at Lewis & Clark

Whitworth at Pacific

Pacific Lutheran at Willamette

Linfield at George Fox
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 09, 2008, 04:16:12 PM
My predictions for tonight:

LC-75 Whitman-70..this game scares me. LC has been so inconsistent all season. Can't let the guard down.
WW-83 Pacific-72..WW gets back on track
Willamette-88 PLU-85, OT
George Fox-73 Linfield-69...GF homecoming! yessssss
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 09, 2008, 11:42:21 PM
Solid win for the Pios. Rivera SHUT DOWN Faidley. Whitman missed a million easy shots and turned the ball over a bunch and the Pios went on to the easy 67-51 win. Now we need PLU and Linfield to lose. Just when you thought WW was a shoe in for the conference playoff...they lose again..to Pacific. What a crazy crazy conference!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 10, 2008, 12:55:20 AM
George Fox beats Linfield and Willamette beats PLU, who would have the tiebreaker against us. LC now tied for third with Willamette and Linfield at 7-5!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 10, 2008, 01:41:12 AM
1-15 in second half from 3pt = NO WAY.  WW loses 3rd straight.  We shot the ball like 8th graders.  If Pac played good D then good job PAC, but I heard open look by __________, miss.  Getting out of this slump against PLU and UPS next weekend will be very tough.   I am officially worried.   Pull it together Pirates!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on February 10, 2008, 01:52:07 AM
Wow...the NWC is incredibly balanced this year. Four games left, and seven teams are still fighting to make the playoffs (and #8 Fox might be playing the best ball in the league right now). Should make for an interesting last two weeks and a lot of close games!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 02:11:58 AM
Well UPS moves into sole possesion of 1st place tonight by being idle...Great effort tonight Logs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 02:14:21 AM
Every team is so close...if WW struggles next weekend against UPS and PLU, they could find themselves out of the playoffs...crazy wild league!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 02:16:53 AM
Guess I better throw up the standings:

UPS 9-3
WW 8-4
LC  7-5
Linfield  7-5
Willamette  7-5
PLU   6-6
Pac  6-6
G Fox 4-9
Whitman 0-12
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 10, 2008, 03:43:47 AM
Eyewitness report from Forest Grove:

Wow, what a game.  Nwhoops - they wernt open looks Whitworth were missing, it was Pacific's defense.  I know Whitworth was missing their post, but I was surprised about the lack of depth on Whitworth's team.  Just a great game, both teams competed, Whitworth just didn't have a lot after Symes and Willemson.  Howe impressed me again, just can put the ball in the basket.  Keep it goin Boxers, let's tame those Mildcats next week!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 10, 2008, 01:00:07 PM
I was surprised to see the Whitworth coach with headphones on as soon the game was over, he was talking to the radio guys.  Any Whitworth fans listen to the broadcast?  He was visibly upset the whole game, interested to know what he said?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 10, 2008, 01:53:35 PM
I couldn't listen past the 7:00 mark.  No idea what Hayford said.  Sorry.

The conference is balanced.  This is the time of year teams come together and play better.  Unfortunately we are not playing better AND the other teams are improving.  Bad combination.  This weekend will tell alot.  If we win both we are solid first place seed, if we lose both...we are in deep trouble.  Thank God for a good first half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 03:16:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 10, 2008, 01:53:35 PM
I couldn't listen past the 7:00 mark.  No idea what Hayford said.  Sorry.

The conference is balanced.  This is the time of year teams come together and play better.  Unfortunately we are not playing better AND the other teams are improving.  Bad combination.  This weekend will tell alot.  If we win both we are solid first place seed, if we lose both...we are in deep trouble.  Thank God for a good first half.

NWHoops, do you think that WW is starting to wear down?  With so few guys playing in their rotation, all the minutes played could be catching up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 03:24:42 PM
This is the first time WW has lost 3 straight NWC games since the 2004-2005 season when they lost 4 straight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 10, 2008, 04:10:31 PM
Logshow (not that you asked me), I don't know if Whitworth is wearing down for the year but they did wear out last night, there were a few trips in a row where the Pac coaches were urging and yelling to their players to keep the pressure on because "they are tired".  Symes is a tremendous athlete, I think he could play forever, Willemson on the other hand looked worn down in the second half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 10:53:58 PM
Well hopefully the Loggers can do the same thing.

NWCer, why do you think Pac was so successful against WW?  Did Pac play zone and WW didn't know what to do?  Were the Pac bigs too much?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 10:56:45 PM
Every game from here on out is huge!

There is still so much to sort out with only 4 games to go.  There is going to be some great basketball to watch in the next two weeks!
Title: Loggers-Linfield
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 11, 2008, 12:13:58 AM
Did anybody out there see this game?  I listened up to halftime and it sounded like an easy game for UPS; I shut it down and was a little surprised to find that the Loggers lost it by 10.  What explains the big turnaround? 

Thanks
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 11, 2008, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 10:53:58 PM
Well hopefully the Loggers can do the same thing.

NWCer, why do you think Pac was so successful against WW?  Did Pac play zone and WW didn't know what to do?  Were the Pac bigs too much?

Pac didn't play too much zone, they did seem to take the Whitworth PG and their freshman shooter out of the game.  I really think, like I mentioned earlier, they (Whitworth) just aren't very deep (right now anyway with the big guy's injury), so if a couple people play poorly, as was the case with their guards, they can struggle.  VanDomlen and Howe were tough inside, Howe particularly was very efficient (8-10 from the field, 8-10 from the line, 3-4 from 3)HarrisonDavis had it going as well.  But it could just be as simple as making shots, Pac was on fire, 58% from the field and 50% from 3.

Your right, its going to be a crazy finish, so much can happen........
Title: Re: Loggers-Linfield
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 01:16:45 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 11, 2008, 12:13:58 AM
Did anybody out there see this game?  I listened up to halftime and it sounded like an easy game for UPS; I shut it down and was a little surprised to find that the Loggers lost it by 10.  What explains the big turnaround? 

Thanks

I am not really sure what happened either, but if you look at the stats it seems pretty evident. :-\  Its like UPS just didn't show up for the second half, the stats are staggering...led by the 73% shooting of linfield (33%), the 5 total rebounds of UPS and the 12 TOs compared to 3 assists.  No team will (or deserves) to win a game with that kind of effort.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 01:23:37 AM
The Logs do have a great opportunity to bounce back and really take a strong hold of the conference this next weekend!

NWCer, you were probably the best source since you saw them first hand on Saturday :).  those are pretty good stats to put up against the highly touted WW defense.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 11, 2008, 02:21:00 AM
I don't know what to say other than WW is obviously struggling.  The D is suffering and so is our shooting.  Could be fatigue from a lack of depth, could be other teams are playing better or simply getting "up" for the WW/UPS games.  I think WW will be glad to be back home.  That being said we have to face two contenders whom we beat at their place(s).  I think LC and PAC wanted to get even for the way we dismantled them in Spokane, I got to believe PLU and UPS will have some revenge motivation as well.

The third place team will definitely have 6 losses.  That means 7 teams are still playing or the postseason.  Everyone of those 7 coaches are saying, get to the playoffs cause nothing is certain this season.  The 3 seed could very well win out and take the NCAA bid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 11, 2008, 02:22:18 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 03:24:42 PM
This is the first time WW has lost 3 straight NWC games since the 2004-2005 season when they lost 4 straight.

I think we will end this against PLU, but thanks for the memories.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 11, 2008, 02:22:18 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 03:24:42 PM
This is the first time WW has lost 3 straight NWC games since the 2004-2005 season when they lost 4 straight.

I think we will end this against PLU, but thanks for the memories.

Just reminiscing of the good ol times :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 11, 2008, 02:55:22 PM
"Could be fatigue from a lack of depth, could be other teams are playing better or simply getting "up" for the WW/UPS games."

-nwhoops

I agree with this statement from nwhoops.  I think teams definitely get up to play the top teams in the league, especially with UPS being ranked in the top 10 again this year.  It just gives the oppostion that much more motivation to come out and play a great game.

Also, I can't remember seeing so much parity in the NWC as we have this year.  All the teams are really good, I think it all depends on who comes out and plays harder and who can catch some lucky breaks over the course of a game.  I know UPS is the only "ranked" team right now, but if they are indeed a top 15 team in the nation, then we have a VERY tough conference(cause the Logs have already dropped 3 games).  Of the teams I've watched play so far, they are all really good.  Even PLU who is playing .500 ball in league right now looked great.  I dont think there are any "easy outs" this year (except maybe the Whitman "whipping boys" Missionaries). 

On the bright side it makes for a much more interesting race, rather than having 2-3 teams dominate everyone else we have competetive games each night.  On the negative side, it makes those of us at the top pretty squeamish night in and night out.  There's certainly no guarantees.  I look forward to seeing how everthing plays out as we come down to the end of league play. 

Good luck to UPS on their Eastern WA road swing this weekend.  The WW game is a MUST WIN!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 11, 2008, 02:58:45 PM
And as a side note, I just noticed I've been getting a serious boost in my "Karma"!!! Many thanks to whoever is helping me out...I can feel my life getting more positive each day!  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 03:00:14 PM
QuoteI know UPS is the only "ranked" team right now, but if they are indeed a top 15 team in the nation...

That is going to change very quickly  :-\

After dropping the game to Linfield, UPS is going to get cut down a few notches...my guess would be around 21st.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on February 11, 2008, 02:58:45 PM
And as a side note, I just noticed I've been getting a serious boost in my "Karma"!!! Many thanks to whoever is helping me out...I can feel my life getting more positive each day!  ;D

Here one more...make it a great day!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Lutes07 on February 11, 2008, 04:20:50 PM
How do tie breakers work if the season series is split?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 11, 2008, 04:33:08 PM
Just read this over in the Pool C boards:

If Oxy holds on to one of the top 2 spots in the West, they should host. Traditionally, the SoCal team has to stand in line behind teams with better records (normally due to the fact that SoCal teams beat up on each other). But the committee has been pretty consistent about giving hosting seeds to the top 2 teams in the region.

The NCAA has two options on making this happen: find three other teams that would have to fly anyway and ship them to LA, which is what I think that you're getting at, or find two teams that are a short drive away and pair them up opening round and then fly the winner to LA for a single game. If there were 2 NWC teams this would be an obvious situation. If WashU drops behind Lawrence and Augustana in the Midwest, you could match them with cross-town rival Webster from the SLIAC and then fly from St. Louis to Los Angeles for round two.

Wouldn't that be sweet to have two NWC teams get in. Chances are slim of course...but it would be sweet if it happened.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 11, 2008, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: Lutes07 on February 11, 2008, 04:20:50 PM
How do tie breakers work if the season series is split?

LC had to deal with this last year. It is really weird. First it is the records against all teams above those teams in the tie. This is what tripped up LC last year because their were no teams above LC and Whitworth. But if it is a tie for third place, then it would be whoever has the better record against the top two teams. If that doesn't work, then it is whoever has the better record against those top two teams in rank order. If that still doesn't work then it is the record against teams from the bottom of the standings up. LC lost to last place Pacific last season and so Whitworth got the tiebreaker. That one usually gets the job done but if it doesn't then it goes to best conference road record and on and on and on...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 11, 2008, 04:33:08 PM
Just read this over in the Pool C boards:

If Oxy holds on to one of the top 2 spots in the West, they should host. Traditionally, the SoCal team has to stand in line behind teams with better records (normally due to the fact that SoCal teams beat up on each other). But the committee has been pretty consistent about giving hosting seeds to the top 2 teams in the region.

The NCAA has two options on making this happen: find three other teams that would have to fly anyway and ship them to LA, which is what I think that you're getting at, or find two teams that are a short drive away and pair them up opening round and then fly the winner to LA for a single game. If there were 2 NWC teams this would be an obvious situation. If WashU drops behind Lawrence and Augustana in the Midwest, you could match them with cross-town rival Webster from the SLIAC and then fly from St. Louis to Los Angeles for round two.

Wouldn't that be sweet to have two NWC teams get in. Chances are slim of course...but it would be sweet if it happened.

Yes, but unfortunately...there is no chnace of that this year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 04:49:14 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 11, 2008, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: Lutes07 on February 11, 2008, 04:20:50 PM
How do tie breakers work if the season series is split?

LC had to deal with this last year. It is really weird. First it is the records against all teams above those teams in the tie. This is what tripped up LC last year because their were no teams above LC and Whitworth. But if it is a tie for third place, then it would be whoever has the better record against the top two teams. If that doesn't work, then it is whoever has the better record against those top two teams in rank order. If that still doesn't work then it is the record against teams from the bottom of the standings up. LC lost to last place Pacific last season and so Whitworth got the tiebreaker. That one usually gets the job done but if it doesn't then it goes to best conference road record and on and on and on...

I believe that the rules might have been chnaged slightly from last year...I will have to check on that
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: Lutes07 on February 11, 2008, 04:20:50 PM
How do tie breakers work if the season series is split?

Its alittle early for that isn't it? I would be more worried about your upcoming game against WW.  PLU has a tough road to travel.  Still have to play WW, Linfield, and Pac
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 11, 2008, 05:25:26 PM
I agree with you Logshow, it's too early for anyone to be thinking pass their next game, with the exception of those poor Missionaries :'(, they're probably counting down the days until Spring Break 8)......

When's the last time a team went winless in conference?

They finish at home against UPS, at Whitworth, at George Fox which I predict are all losses.   The only chance I see of them is when they host PLU........

Scared Lutes?? 

So much can happen with this league...........  I still say UPS is a lock as one of the top 3, and Whitworth is still in better shape than the rest, but LC, Willamette, Linfield, Pacific, and PLU, wow, you could finish in the top 3 or bottom 3, that much can happen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 06:49:38 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 11, 2008, 05:25:26 PM
I agree with you Logshow, it's too early for anyone to be thinking pass their next game, with the exception of those poor Missionaries :'(, they're probably counting down the days until Spring Break 8)......


An all-inclusive trip to Cancun!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 06:52:57 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 11, 2008, 05:25:26 PM

When's the last time a team went winless in conference?

They finish at home against UPS, at Whitworth, at George Fox which I predict are all losses.   The only chance I see of them is when they host PLU........

Scared Lutes?? 

So much can happen with this league...........  I still say UPS is a lock as one of the top 3, and Whitworth is still in better shape than the rest, but LC, Willamette, Linfield, Pacific, and PLU, wow, you could finish in the top 3 or bottom 3, that much can happen.

I believe the last team to do it was G Fox...maybe back in 2001, I think.

Lutes07 might be a bit worried, trying to figure out the tie breakers.  What if PLU gets a huge win on Friday...and then maybe just maybe Whitman could catch them in a let down game the next night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 11, 2008, 07:09:39 PM
I wouldn't put it by Whitman to get PLU at home, the PLU team I saw at Pacific played no defense, Faidly could have a big night.

Cancun is nice, but honestly, any place outside Walla Walla would be an improvement, but somewhere in the sun where the shades can be brought out would be sweet 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 11:01:49 PM
Not only can they not win any games, but they have to endure a winter in Walla Walla.  Yikes...that's brutal!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 12, 2008, 03:00:40 AM
Among other things that may have gotten the Pios going was a page-long scathing criticism of Coach Gaillard in the student newspaper. It was actually written by a friend of mine and I agree with some of his points but disagree with others. His main argument is that Gaillard is not helping the team play to its full potential. He says this is due to who Coach G plays and how much he plays certain players and how many minutes he plays them. The writer says Tillery should be at the small forward and Thierry the point guard and Robinowitz the shooting guard. I do agree that Thierry has a great court awareness but I just can't see those three starting in a lineup that is already small as it is now. His other main point was that Coach G doesn't give players consistent minutes and thus keeps them guessing and doesn't create any consistent flow. This I agree with, but it is also hard when you have so many capable players to find a consistent rotation. At the same time, this same team went 13-3 last year. Either way, it definitely got the Pios going.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 12, 2008, 12:38:36 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 12, 2008, 03:00:40 AM
Among other things that may have gotten the Pios going was a page-long scathing criticism of Coach Gaillard in the student newspaper. It was actually written by a friend of mine and I agree with some of his points but disagree with others. His main argument is that Gaillard is not helping the team play to its full potential. He says this is due to who Coach G plays and how much he plays certain players and how many minutes he plays them. The writer says Tillery should be at the small forward and Thierry the point guard and Robinowitz the shooting guard. I do agree that Thierry has a great court awareness but I just can't see those three starting in a lineup that is already small as it is now. His other main point was that Coach G doesn't give players consistent minutes and thus keeps them guessing and doesn't create any consistent flow. This I agree with, but it is also hard when you have so many capable players to find a consistent rotation. At the same time, this same team went 13-3 last year. Either way, it definitely got the Pios going.   

To me it seems that Gaillard is all about the matchups.  He starts Thierry only against UPS and has done so for the past few years, and plays Papenfus 2 mins.  But otherwise, Papenfus seems to play a lot, and Thierry doesn't play that much because I am guessing that Gaillard doesn't feel that he brings much offense to the table.  Gailard seems to be a very offensive minded coach.  The Pios have definately had their struggles this year, and their remaining games are by no means easy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 12, 2008, 12:40:35 PM
Well the latest poll came out...no surprise UPS drops to 21st.  Let's get back on the right track to weekend Logs! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 12, 2008, 12:42:56 PM
Tonights game:

Linfield @ Willamette

Huge game for both teams trying to scrap for the last playoff spot, should have some great intensity
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 12, 2008, 02:22:21 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 12, 2008, 12:38:36 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 12, 2008, 03:00:40 AM
Among other things that may have gotten the Pios going was a page-long scathing criticism of Coach Gaillard in the student newspaper. It was actually written by a friend of mine and I agree with some of his points but disagree with others. His main argument is that Gaillard is not helping the team play to its full potential. He says this is due to who Coach G plays and how much he plays certain players and how many minutes he plays them. The writer says Tillery should be at the small forward and Thierry the point guard and Robinowitz the shooting guard. I do agree that Thierry has a great court awareness but I just can't see those three starting in a lineup that is already small as it is now. His other main point was that Coach G doesn't give players consistent minutes and thus keeps them guessing and doesn't create any consistent flow. This I agree with, but it is also hard when you have so many capable players to find a consistent rotation. At the same time, this same team went 13-3 last year. Either way, it definitely got the Pios going.   

To me it seems that Gaillard is all about the matchups.  He starts Thierry only against UPS and has done so for the past few years, and plays Papenfus 2 mins.  But otherwise, Papenfus seems to play a lot, and Thierry doesn't play that much because I am guessing that Gaillard doesn't feel that he brings much offense to the table.  Gailard seems to be a very offensive minded coach.  The Pios have definately had their struggles this year, and their remaining games are by no means easy.

Yeah I would definitely agree with that. I though starting Thierry against UPS was a great move. And I mean we don't really have any stellar defensive players. Clearly Gaillard knows what he gets when he is recruiting. But if we can play solid team defense like we did against Whitworth the other night we can have success.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 12, 2008, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 12, 2008, 12:42:56 PM
Tonights game:

Linfield @ Willamette

Huge game for both teams trying to scrap for the last playoff spot, should have some great intensity

I don't see any possible scenario except for this one coming right down to the final minutes. I think Linfield eeks it out 86-82.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 12, 2008, 03:38:05 PM
I agree that the game will definately be close.  But when the game comes down to making adjustments and tactical work, James is heads above better then anyone else in the league...so I got to go with the Bearcats.   And the fact that they are protecting their home court.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on February 12, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
In light of the article on Gailard, I am curious to hear what people think about criticism and D3 coaches. Obviously major college coaches are subject to critical analysis and reporting, while I would say that high school coaches for the most part are off limits. Where do D3 coaches fall on that spectrum?? It isn't like there is much media coverage for D3, so it rarely comes up, but just wondering what everyone thinks??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2008, 10:47:00 PM
I doubt to many D3 coaches for the most part are afraid of some criticism.  They get it from fans on the road and sometimes at home.  It comes with the territory.  Any coach who climbs a ladder and cuts down a net must also be ready to take the heat. 

Claiming D3 isn't "about that" is soft and squishy, and comes from the academics who think all athletics is wasteful of school resources. Winning at D# is very important to the players, their parents, the coaches, athletic depts., most faculty, trustees, and college presidents.  That's why coaches that consistently lose, don't coach for long.  Criticism can be a fantastic motivator and everyone needs some every so often.

I personally think the players at D3 should have to endure the least if any.  Paying 40K a year to get an education and read about how boneheaded you played isn't right.  Scholarship players, especially D1 future professionals, are fair game in my book.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2008, 10:54:08 PM
On a more serious note.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx3-sxhewlo
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 13, 2008, 12:09:22 AM
I agree, it is a part of the coaching life and comes with the terroritory...most coaches have pretty thick skin, I doubt that Gailard really cares what was written.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 13, 2008, 12:55:18 AM
Its a final Willamette wins on a buzzer beater by Kunke the freshman...that was a great game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 13, 2008, 01:01:06 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 13, 2008, 12:55:18 AM
Its a final Willamette wins on a buzzer beater by Kunke the freshman...that was a great game!

Indeed! Wow! I think every game here on out will be this close! Except the Whitman games...   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 13, 2008, 01:27:50 AM
Really big win for Willamette tonight.  Their game against LC is now pivotal, if the Bearcats they are looking pretty good.  LC has a great opportunity this weekend too, with games against Willamette and Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 13, 2008, 01:49:49 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 13, 2008, 01:27:50 AM
Really big win for Willamette tonight.  Their game against LC is now pivotal, if the Bearcats they are looking pretty good.  LC has a great opportunity this weekend too, with games against Willamette and Linfield.

The Linfield game isn't until next weekend, but yes, the Pios definitely control their own fate. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 13, 2008, 06:29:45 PM
Regional rankings were released today. UPS didn't make the cut. I'm guessing it is because their losses in conference count as region losses...and because there are a lot of other good teams in the "West" region.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 13, 2008, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 13, 2008, 06:29:45 PM
Regional rankings were released today. UPS didn't make the cut. I'm guessing it is because their losses in conference count as region losses...and because there are a lot of other good teams in the "West" region.

Yes and yes.  I would imagine that if the Loggers had not lost to G Fox then they would have most likely been in the Regional Rankings somewhere...probably the lower 3rd.  They have 3 in region losses and no "trademark" wins this year against high profile D3's like Cal Lu does.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 13, 2008, 10:39:04 PM
What this really means is that UPS doesn't have even the slightest hope for a Pool C bid.  If they win their next 4 games and some of the regionally ranked team lose, UPS could possibly move up into the rankings...but I don't think that they could have it high enough to acutally have a real shot at getting an at-large bid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 14, 2008, 01:15:25 PM
Big Big Big weekend, UPS has to get both this weekend...if they do then they will be sitting very pretty.  It is not going to be easy though.  I think that WW game on Saturday is going to be great!  Its like the playoffs are already here, but WW does have to get by PLU first.  I am looking forward to how it all plays out!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 14, 2008, 01:18:47 PM
Friday's schedule:

Pacific Lutheran (6-6)  at Whitworth (8-4)

Pacific (6-6) at Linfield (7-6)

Puget Sound (9-3) at Whitman (0-11)

George Fox (4-8) at Lewis & Clark (7-5)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 14, 2008, 01:22:34 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 14, 2008, 01:18:47 PM
Friday's schedule:

Pacific Lutheran (6-6)  at Whitworth (8-4)

Pacific (6-6) at Linfield (7-6)

Puget Sound (9-3) at Whitman (0-11)

George Fox (4-8) at Lewis & Clark (7-5)


Every team except Whitman has something to play for...Whitman hasn't had anything to play for for quite some time now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 14, 2008, 01:25:18 PM
My predictions:

Boy these are hard. I feel like they could all go either way (except UPS-Whitman)

WW squeaks by PLU 84-83

Pacific comes up with a big win at Linfield 72-68

UPS destroys Whitman 96-78

LC wants it bad and does a great job of shutting down the other team's best player again, 66-63 over George Fox
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 14, 2008, 01:48:55 PM
That PLU/WW game is going to be a great one...wish I could see it live!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 14, 2008, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 14, 2008, 01:48:55 PM
That PLU/WW game is going to be a great one...wish I could see it live!

I agree! How are the WW fans feeling about it? Can WW get out of their funk?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 14, 2008, 05:43:53 PM
From the "Worth Watching" section of Around the Nation:

No. 21 Puget Sound at Whitworth: The NWC's regular-season champ may end up with more losses than any other league titlist, and with seven of nine teams at .500 or better, that tells you something about league parity. Both these teams enter the weekend sputtering a bit. This is the second straight weekend on the road for the Loggers, who have dropped two of three. Whitworth is thrilled to be home, having dropped three straight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 14, 2008, 06:10:03 PM
Here is who still has to play who:

UPS: @ Whitman, @ Whitworth, vs LC, vs Willamette
Whitworth: vs PLU, vs UPS, vs Whitman, @ George Fox
Willamette: vs LC, @ Pacific, @ UPS
LC: vs George Fox, @ Willamette, @ UPS, @ Linfield
Linfield: vs Pacific, @ PLU, vs LC
PLU: @ Whitworth, @ Whitman, vs Linfield, vs Pacific
Pacific: @ Linfield, @ George Fox, vs Willamette, @ PLU
George Fox: @ LC, vs Pacific, vs Whitworth, vs Whitman
Whitman: vs. UPS, vs PLU, @ Whitman, @ George Fox
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 14, 2008, 06:11:55 PM
Whitworth definitely needs to figure things out for this weekend.  If they don't they are in danger of missing the NWC tournament.  It is reflective of the truly amazing year in the NWC, but with only two weeks to play, Whitworth could finish anywhere between first and sixth.  Toughest NWC season, top to bottom, I've seen in some time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 14, 2008, 06:18:14 PM
And speaking of top to bottom, I really feel for Whitman.

If it was last season, I think this Whitman team would have four wins at this point.  But they are in danger of going 0-fer.   But they have been in almost every game.  They have not been crushed once like virtually every other last place team has been.  The biggest losses have been 20 points, coming at Pacific and at UPS.  They have been hard to beat at home, but just haven't been able to get over the top.

Have to credit Coach Molitore for keeping his team playing hard in spite of the losses.  They may yet pull a shocker down the stretch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 14, 2008, 07:36:55 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 14, 2008, 06:18:14 PM
They may yet pull a shocker down the stretch.

Like upsetting Whitworth at home next Tuesday?  :D

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2008, 12:36:09 AM
WW will handle PLU but not in a blowout.  I think they want to re-establish their home court advantage.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2008, 01:48:48 AM
Wins by WW, UPS, LC and LIN keep everything in place for a wild finish.  Which leads me to the big game tomorrow with UPS.  Might be a winner take all, might not.  IF WW wins tomorrow and they can, they have 2 more games vs GF and Whitman.  UPS then is at home vs LC and WIL, easily a more difficult 2 game finish.  I know either of these teams could slide out of the top two spots but I am going to say its doubtful. 

The battle for 3rd place is very hot and will likely come down to the UPS/WIL game on the 23rd.  Farewell to PAC and PLU, nice knowing you.  I think Willamette beats UPS on the 23rd and somehow gets the 3rd spot and then has to come right back to UPS to play the 2v3 game to come to Spokane.  Just a guess but I like it.  Go sweep those Logs tomorrow Pirates!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 16, 2008, 03:29:14 AM
We heckled the hell out Brent Satern, and he had all of two points. The Willamette game looms large.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 16, 2008, 02:39:47 PM
Standings after last night and tonight's matchups:

Puget Sound         10-3 @ Whitworth     
Whitworth           9-4  vs UPS
Lewis & Clark          8-5  @ Willamette
Willamette           8-5   vs LC
Linfield               8-6     idle
Pacific Lutheran     6-7   @ Whitman
Pacific (Ore.)            6-7   @ George Fox
George Fox         4-9    vs Pacific   
Whitman          0-13  vs PLU


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 16, 2008, 03:46:41 PM
Eyewitness report from McMinnville  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8):

It's been a long time since I made that trip, and wow, what an environment.  After the last Pacific road game I went to, Lewis and Clark, this was great.  The student section was packed, lively, loud, and made an impact.  Linfield came out the game on fire, and forced some early turnovers that led to lay ups and a very quick start.  I didn't see the first Pac-Linfield game (a 30 point Pac win), but the Linfield team I saw last night looked very good.

Tonight's predictions:

UPS returns the favor and gets one at Whitworth

LC opens up nice lead, and blows it, as Willamette wins close one at home

Whitman, YES WHITMAN!!!, gets their first and only win in conference over PLU

and my Boxers, finds a way to lick the wounds the Wildcats gave last night and gets a close win at Fox.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 16, 2008, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 16, 2008, 03:46:41 PM
LC opens up nice lead, and blows it, as Willamette wins close one at home

Sounds oddly familiar, but I have a good feeling about this one. The Pios are playing with a lot of confidence right now. I'm making the drive to see this one. Does anyone know if Willamette has good crowds?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2008, 01:09:48 AM
WW has won!  Symes takes over the 2nd half and seals the win with an offensive rebound with 0:06 to go.

80-78  Pirates in 1st!  Pirates do it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 03:30:47 PM
Man, not sure what happened to the Loggers...1st half was great, 2nd half couldn't get it going
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 03:32:24 PM
Unless something crazy happens it looks like the 3 top teams will be WW, UPS, and Willamette
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 17, 2008, 04:18:54 PM
The Pios do it again. Up 14 in the first half they slowly collapse. The second half was us missing a ton of threes and missing even more free throws. We were still in it late in the second half but it seemed every time we needed a stop they drained a three. Down by one with under 10 seconds left we threw the ball away and then Toboni airballed a three to tie. A fitting end to an extremely inconsistent season. This team could easily be in first, or last.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 04:43:42 PM
Sound like a real Jeckyll and Hyde preformance
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 04:44:52 PM
Strangely UPS has seemed to have the same kind of problems...get up in the first half, lose it in the second half.  Those are the painful ones
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 17, 2008, 05:08:48 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 04:43:42 PM
Sound like a real Jeckyll and Hyde preformance

The whole season has been that way really. Win two, lose two, win one, lose one...Even within games we have been inconsistent. Play great one half, horrible the next. Be up 26 against a nationally ranked team, lose to an under .500 team. The season kind of went like all a lot of our games. Play well then stop trying as hard and play poorly then still have a shot at the end but come up just short.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 17, 2008, 06:11:31 PM
Logshow, I wouldn't say Willamette is definitely in the top 3.  They have 2 very tough road games left (Pac and UPS), they could easily drop both, and if Linfield can win out then they're in, if they get 1 they should have the tie breaker, even though there are only two games left a lot can happen
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 06:14:59 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 17, 2008, 06:11:31 PM
Logshow, I wouldn't say Willamette is definitely in the top 3.  They have 2 very tough road games left (Pac and UPS), they could easily drop both, and if Linfield can win out then they're in, if they get 1 they should have the tie breaker, even though there are only two games left a lot can happen

Very true
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 06:16:07 PM
Pio20,  do you think LC is done or will they give a good effort these last 2 games...they have two pretty tough ones.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 17, 2008, 07:01:20 PM
The feeling I got from being at Willamette is that LC is done. Rivera said they would win all their games, everyone was confident that they controlled their own destiny. But the way they played didn't translate. They love to play well for a while then seem to lose all composure. I don't see a win at UPS and a win at Linfield plus two Willamette losses happening. But then again, anything I expected from the Pios this season never happened, so who knows. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2008, 07:40:10 PM
Logshow, the game was pretty evenly contested in my opinion.  UPS did get the first run and went up 10.  WW got the next run to pull even.  UPS had a mini run to go back up 5 and Marsh missed a 3 that would have been 8.  We converted, then UPS missed 3 more 3's and Krauel missed 2 free throws and we were back in it with 6:40 to play.  WW switched to a zone during second half and Foster never found a spot to dunk against it. (3 first half slams)! 
The guy might be a 1-2 team All-American next season.  He has my vote, if I had one.

I think WW showed some composure and heart.  I do not think UPS choked on anything in the second half, I think WW just played better and dictated the style.  Without A. Williams incredible clutch 3pt buckets (3 in final 3 minutes), WW would have won by at least 5 and not sweated the final :30.  If WW can find the stroke from 3pt line, Pirates can win out next week and prepare for a all out war in playoffs agains whoever makes it.

I think WW is practically guaranteed a spot right now.   Am I right?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 17, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
"I think WW is practically guaranteed a spot right now.   Am I right?"

If Whitworth wins on Tuesday, yes.

I'll try not to brag too much about Whitman shocking a team in the last two weekends... :D

Now that they have their win, they can play out the string against Whitworth and GFU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 17, 2008, 08:29:20 PM
About last night's game -

Great crowd, great teams, great atmosphere.  Exactly what DIII basketball is all about.

It was a pleasure to watch Foster and Symes go head to head, essentially a match up of the two top Player of the Year candidates (in my opinion).  Foster had the advantage in the first half after Symes had to sit for extended stretches with foul trouble.

Would've liked to have seen the Pirates make a few more free throws down the stretch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 08:45:19 PM
I might have been misunderstood.  I didn't think UPS choked, they simply couldn't hit shots when they had to, and they couldn't stop Symes in the 2nd half.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2008, 09:15:35 PM
Here is the tiebreaker info for NWC 2008 Basketball with some helpful info.   I know you didn't ask but....YOUR WELCOME!

In case of a tie in the regular-season Conference standing affecting
post-season advancement, ties shall be broken by:
1. Head-to-Head competition in conference games only
            WW was not swept by any team and did sweep UPS...WW wins (v UPS) or pushes all rule 1 scenarios it may encounter
2. Results against above teams in rank order in conference games only
            Should UPS finish with best record, WW would win all rule 2 scenarios because they swept UPS
3. Best conference road record
            WW is currently 4-3 on road with 1 to play, UPS 6-2 on road, WIL 3-3 on road, LC 3-3 on the road, LF 1-6 on road.
4. Sempert System in conference game  someone have a calculator?
            The Sempert point system is as follows:
                  1. 4 points win on road over a .500 team or better.
                  2. 3 points win at home over a .500 team or better win on road over a team below .500
                  3. 2 points win at home over a team below .500
                  4. 1 point losing to a .500 or better team anywhere
                  5. 0 points losing to a team below .500
                  6. A .500 or better record in conference play determines you are a winning team.
5. Record versus non-conference common opponents at a common site     research.com
6. Pre-arranged draw by Athletic Directors at the fall meeting     bad luck Chuck
(Adopted January 2008)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2008, 09:30:18 PM
The scenario where WW and/or UPS misses playoffs requires these 2 teams to lose both of their remaining games.  Even if that did happen and WIL wins both of their remaining , LC or LF would have to win both, but since they play each other the loser of that game Sat will be eliminated.  Which means there is actually only 4 teams still in contention.  Who the fourth team is remains to be seen.

If WW wins Tuesday then they can lose at GF Friday and still be guaranteed the third spot.  UPS wins Friday and also guarantees a spot and virtually eliminates LC who would need WIL to lose both.  LF is on a slim hope.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 10:07:24 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2008, 09:30:18 PM
The scenario where WW and/or UPS misses playoffs requires these 2 teams to lose both of their remaining games.  Even if that did happen and WIL wins both of their remaining , LC or LF would have to win both, but since they play each other the loser of that game Sat will be eliminated.  Which means there is actually only 4 teams still in contention.  Who the fourth team is remains to be seen.

If WW wins Tuesday then they can lose at GF Friday and still be guaranteed the third spot.  UPS wins Friday and also guarantees a spot and virtually eliminates LC who would need WIL to lose both.  LF is on a slim hope.

This playoff picture rundown is sounding like the NFL playoffs scenarios. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2008, 10:10:42 PM
Your right..it all is crazy.  I am just glad my team is pretty much safely in and holds there own fate.
The battle for the last spot will create quite the scenario post Fridy night at about 11PM. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 10:15:24 PM
NWHoops,  If it all plays out like it should, meaning the favored teams win.  How do you feel about the WW/UPS game in the NWC championship.  WW has got UPS twice this year.  The old saying goes "that is it tough to beat any team 3 straight times in one year."  Any truth to that?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on February 18, 2008, 12:54:35 AM
The GFU women were able to beat UPS last year three out of three tries, but in the NCAA Tourney, UPS finally won.  So maybe 3 straight is possible, but 4 is a nearly impossible task
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 11:49:42 AM
Beating UPS once is hard enough.  The burden will be on UPS to get it done.  Sadly enough, I don't think UPS will be there.  I think a very hungry, 3rd place team beats UPS in Tacoma where the Logs have been vulnerable.  That would be a good scenario for WW.  Not having to face UPS a third time.

The truth is 4 of the 5 teams (sorry Linfiled) playing for postseason could win 4 in a row...anywhere.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 03:49:55 PM
I don't know about that one.  If UPS ends up with the 2nd seed on tie-breakers...I think there is no way they are losing at home.  Especially if it is Willamette.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 03:52:02 PM
WW does still have to get by Whitman (probably just have to show up)  and then G Fox.  That Fox game could be very interesting.  It is not an easy place to play, and it is G Fox's senior night...they might have one more upset left in them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 09:17:54 PM
AT GF is always a tough game.  Senior night...God help us.  I am pretty sure that I am gonna make the trip to watch.  Taking  care of business on Tue is just that.  WW will go to GF with the ball in their own hands.

UPS is such a hard team to predict this year.  They clearly should have lost at LC and the game at PLU could easily have been an L.  The GF at home loss could have been saved but with that being said they are actually lucky to be where they are.  WW has been the only team that was pretty consistent this year in Conf.  I would put their win at WIL and at UPS as being the reason we dont have a 4 way tie for first.  Friday's games are going to be so fun, so BIG.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 18, 2008, 09:40:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 09:17:54 PM
UPS is such a hard team to predict this year. 

I think you can say that for every team in Conference this year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 10:11:22 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 18, 2008, 09:40:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 09:17:54 PM
UPS is such a hard team to predict this year. 

I think you can say that for every team in Conference this year. 

I disagree.  I think UPS and LC have been the extremely inconsistent factor in conf. this year and have created that illusion. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 18, 2008, 10:25:00 PM
I agree with that statement, with the lack of a few dominant teams come close standings. But just as UPS or LC have played poorly and lost to teams they should have beat it also means other teams like PLU and George Fox have played well and beat better teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 10:55:48 PM
Definitely not any 1 team dominating this year.  Will LC get the third spot?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 11:08:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 10:11:22 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 18, 2008, 09:40:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 09:17:54 PM
UPS is such a hard team to predict this year. 

I think you can say that for every team in Conference this year. 

I disagree.  I think UPS and LC have been the extremely inconsistent factor in conf. this year and have created that illusion. 

Ahhhhhh tell me about it :-\ it been a frustrating season to watch.  Some high highs and low lows.  I think that if UPS can win both this weekend and clinch atleast a share of the NWC crown, it will go a long way for their confidence and psyche.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 11:13:39 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 10:55:48 PM
Definitely not any 1 team dominating this year.  Will LC get the third spot?

The deck is definately stacked against them.  They have to win at UPS & @Linfield on their Senior Night...ouch and then hope UPS loses to Willamette on Senior Night in Tacoma...If I were a betting man, I wouldn't like those odds.  LC has been a very up and down team this year.  I can see them just throwing in the towel and not giving a very good effort this weekend, they don't seem like a close team.  Quick to point fingers and a lot of egos.

What do you think Pio20?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 11:17:46 PM
A not important side note...

UPS drops out of the Top 25 for the first time this season...yawn...saw that one coming.  Disappointing, but not suprising.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 18, 2008, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 11:13:39 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2008, 10:55:48 PM
Definitely not any 1 team dominating this year.  Will LC get the third spot?

The deck is definately stacked against them.  They have to win at UPS & @Linfield on their Senior Night...ouch and then hope UPS loses to Willamette on Senior Night in Tacoma...If I were a betting man, I wouldn't like those odds.  LC has been a very up and down team this year.  I can see them just throwing in the towel and not giving a very good effort this weekend, they don't seem like a close team.  Quick to point fingers and a lot of egos.

What do you think Pio20?

I don't think they will. I don't see them winning out or Willamette losing twice. But if would be fitting if they, say beat UPS by one then lose to Linfield by 10 with a chance to get in the playoff. They are definitely not a close team. Perhaps off the court, but when it comes to playing they just never really came together this season like they did late last season. And when they did come together, they would always let their guard down defensively again (off hand I think of being up 26 on UPS, 12 on Willamette, then 14 on Willamette). Also, I have said all year we had too many good players, no consistent minutes for quite a few players, no chance to really gel. Simply put it is what could have been. As I have also said before, I think last year was just the team playing well and getting confidence. It's not like they dominated during their win streak last season. They were just playing well, and this year that never came about.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 11:37:06 PM
So if it is pretty much exactly the same team from last year, what changed?  Is it all really just a lack of confidence?  Or maybe guys are unhappy about playing time...I guess there can be such a thing as too many good players.  If those players are not willing to sacrifice individual accolades for team success.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 19, 2008, 12:29:38 AM
Hang in there LC fans, you could get the chance, I'm a say Willamette loses to my Boxers Friday on senior night and then drops one at UPS on their senior night.  Pac almost got them at Willamette earlier this year, prior to Howe going on his crazy run.  Pac is a tough place to play, just ask Whitworth, they've won 3 of their last 4 and 5 straight at home.  They then have to travel up to UPS, they have a tough road, AS DOES LC, at Linfield and at UPS isn't any easier......  I think Linfield has the best chance to get 2 this final weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 12:56:51 AM
Schedule through Friday with predictions:
Feb. 19  8:00 PM  Whitman         vs     Whitworth   
                             WW wins by 20+
Feb. 22  8:00 PM  Willamette      vs      Pacific   
                              PAC wins by 10             
              8:00 PM  Linfield            vs     Pacific Lutheran     
                             PLU wins by 15
              8:00 PM  Lewis & Clark  vs     Puget Sound
                             UPS wins easily 15+  
              8:00 PM  Whitworth      vs     George Fox
                             WW wins in 3x overtime!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 19, 2008, 01:01:00 AM
Come on NWHoops, you have to go ahead and predict Saturday's too :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 02:12:51 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 19, 2008, 01:01:00 AM
Come on NWHoops, you have to go ahead and predict Saturday's too :)

Since when? lol :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 02:43:33 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 19, 2008, 12:29:38 AM
Hang in there LC fans, you could get the chance, I'm a say Willamette loses to my Boxers Friday on senior night and then drops one at UPS on their senior night.  Pac almost got them at Willamette earlier this year, prior to Howe going on his crazy run.  Pac is a tough place to play, just ask Whitworth, they've won 3 of their last 4 and 5 straight at home.  They then have to travel up to UPS, they have a tough road, AS DOES LC, at Linfield and at UPS isn't any easier......  I think Linfield has the best chance to get 2 this final weekend.

Interesting...is that a Linfield sneaks into the playoffs call?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 02:45:10 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 12:56:51 AM
Schedule through Friday with predictions:
Feb. 19  8:00 PM  Whitman         vs     Whitworth   
                             WW wins by 20+
Feb. 22  8:00 PM  Willamette      vs      Pacific   
                              PAC wins by 10             
              8:00 PM  Linfield            vs     Pacific Lutheran     
                             PLU wins by 15
              8:00 PM  Lewis & Clark  vs     Puget Sound
                             UPS wins easily 15+  
              8:00 PM  Whitworth      vs     George Fox
                             WW wins in 3x overtime!!

All eyes will be on that WW/G Fox game on Friday...or atleast mine will.  I am going to have to bring my laptop to the UPS game so I can have some updates :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 02:47:48 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 02:12:51 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 19, 2008, 01:01:00 AM
Come on NWHoops, you have to go ahead and predict Saturday's too :)

Since when? lol :P

Saturday is far far away from NWHoop's mind.  All he can think about is that Friday game with G Fox.  Saturday is irrelavent for him as long as WW wins their games...if not then Saturday all of a sudden means a whole lot more, even though WW won't be playing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 02:49:39 AM
"Saturday is far far away from NWHoop's mind.  All he can think about is that Friday game with G Fox.  Saturday is irrelavent for him as long as WW wins their games..."

INDEED!

LogShow, how do you think Fri. will be for UPS vs LC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 02:51:54 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 02:43:33 AM


Interesting...is that a Linfield sneaks into the playoffs call?

I would love for Linfield to get the 3rd spot, but it won't happen.  Plus they suck (did I say that out loud?) on the road.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 03:10:33 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 02:49:39 AM
"Saturday is far far away from NWHoop's mind.  All he can think about is that Friday game with G Fox.  Saturday is irrelavent for him as long as WW wins their games..."

INDEED!

LogShow, how do you think Fri. will be for UPS vs LC?

aahh...on the fence.  LC scares me because if they are hot...like they were down in Portland when UPS was in town.  Then they are very tough and can beat anybody.  But they are also a team full of egos and not true "team" players.  So I really think they will just wave the white flag since their season is all but done, just not tough enough to still compete.  Also I think the Loggers will be gunning for a clinch of the NWC crown and will be more then ready to play.  The fieldhouse will be rocking and LC wont be able to hang...I think UPS wins big because after they get up 10 LC will lay down and quit.

But I am concerned simply because of their uncertainity factor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 03:12:07 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2008, 02:51:54 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 02:43:33 AM


Interesting...is that a Linfield sneaks into the playoffs call?

I would love for Linfield to get the 3rd spot, but it won't happen.  Plus they suck (did I say that out loud?) on the road.

Ouch...there ain't nothing like home cooking though :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 03:17:10 AM
NWHoops,  what team presents the biggest matchup problems for WW, and why?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 03:19:21 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 03:17:10 AM
NWHoops,  what team presents the biggest matchup problems for WW, and why?




After reading my last post...It looks like an exam question in Philosophy 101, lol.  Feel free to answer in essay form, spelling and grammar count...after that please comment on Business Ethics :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 19, 2008, 01:02:59 PM
Come on Logs, you know I don't WANT Linfield sneaking in there  >:(, just going through scenarios............

nwhoops, I understand now why you don't care about Saturday's games, makes sense..........

I look at Linfield's two games:  @ PLU, vs. LC
Willamette's two games:  @ Pac, @ UPS
and LC's two games:  @ UPS, @ Linfield

I'll say that Linfield is very much alive.

Here's the Boxer coming out in me, but let's say neither of the three get win #10, Linfield gets one or none, Willamette gets none, and LC gets one or none, and then Pac gets both this weekend (wins #8 and #9 vs. Willamette, and at PLU) and there is a 3 or 4 way tie for 3rd?

Anyone know who's in control with the tiebreakers?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 01:30:55 PM
Well of course a Pac guy would never want a Linfield team in there :)

Tie-breakers would come down to head to head match-ups, and then records against the top of the league down.  So assuming that all the teams split during the regular season...it would then go by their records against WW and UPS.

A 4-way tie would be nuts trying to figure out who actually gets it...I will wait till Friday night when the standings and tie-breakers are a bit more clear.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 11:19:37 PM
Can Whitman catch lightning in a bottle tonight?  Probably not...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 11:20:24 PM
But a guy can hope :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2008, 11:57:00 PM
After 1 half of play WW is up 10.  Faidley hasn't scored yet...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2008, 12:57:04 AM
WW win a rather boring contest against Whitman.  Still have G Fox left on Friday.

WW: 1 down 1 to go
UPS: still 2 to go
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2008, 05:45:47 AM
I love boring wins by WW.

Playoff tiebreaker talk for the third spot is for late Friday night posts.  Too much can happen.

I pick WIL to get the 3rd spot still.  Unless, of course, UPS tanks both games....lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2008, 11:51:41 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2008, 05:45:47 AM
I love boring wins by WW.

Playoff tiebreaker talk for the third spot is for late Friday night posts.  Too much can happen.

I pick WIL to get the 3rd spot still.  Unless, of course, UPS tanks both games....lol.

Not funny...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2008, 11:52:20 PM
...and definately not going to happen.  I am very confident UPS will sweep their final home stand
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2008, 11:55:22 PM
The second round of regional rankings came out today...still no teams from the NWC.  The only ones who would have had a chance are WW and UPS. If UPS would have won this weekend them I could probably have seen them being around #6.  But they didn't, so I don't think UPS will make any of the regional rankings this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 01:04:05 PM
Pio20, what's your feel for the game tomorrow?  Is it just a crap shoot like every game for LC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 01:34:24 PM
Well I would say that there is no way we win because I think we have given up more or less. I talked to Joey Toboni and he said basically what I have been telling you guys all season. He said he still didn't know what happened this season and that they easily could be playing UPS for first place tomorrow. But I think the fact that they have to rely on Willamette to lose doesn't help them at all. On the other hand, perhaps the fact that they feel they will have nothing to play for will mean they simply go out there and have fun and play well as a result. I'm sure they would love to get back at UPS for that collapse earlier in the year. So once again, more or less, yeah it is up in the air as is every LC game. I will say that if UPS gets up by more than 10 it will be a blowout very quickly.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 01:58:57 PM
Does anyone else feel like some 7 game series would be the only way to truly figure out who is the best in conference this year?  :D UPS has lost two close games to WW. LC has been up 26 on UPS. LC has gotten demolished by WW and then beat them solidly. UPS has lost to George Fox. George Fox has beat Willamette. Willamette has beat LC twice. LC has blown out George Fox twice. And it goes on and on. I'm not making any actual arguments here but it seems like the only way to tell who is actually the best in the NWC is a seven game series! And just to satisfy those who say WW has been the most consistent in conference, it coud be played at Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 21, 2008, 02:00:17 PM
Perhaps LC is thinking of doing away with the basketball program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 21, 2008, 02:00:17 PM
Perhaps LC is thinking of doing away with the basketball program.

I don't get it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2008, 03:09:26 PM
I say the best team(s) in the conference is the one(s) sitting in first after Saturday night.  Everyone would have played a home and home with everyone else, no better way to figure it out.

I know LC doesn't want to depend on Willamette to lose both, but at Pacific and at UPS, as tough a road back to back as there is, maybe your Pios can make something happen, a lot of basketball left, pass that on to Joey Toboni.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 03:42:32 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 21, 2008, 02:00:17 PM
Perhaps LC is thinking of doing away with the basketball program.

I don't get it

He is a Linfield poster from the football board.  I think he is knocking LC for canceling their football season a few years ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 03:46:11 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 21, 2008, 03:09:26 PM
I say the best team(s) in the conference is the one(s) sitting in first after Saturday night.  Everyone would have played a home and home with everyone else, no better way to figure it out.

I know LC doesn't want to depend on Willamette to lose both, but at Pacific and at UPS, as tough a road back to back as there is, maybe your Pios can make something happen, a lot of basketball left, pass that on to Joey Toboni.

True that is pretty tough for Willamette but...LC's isnt any easier @UPS then @Linfield.  I wouldn't like either option
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 03:46:50 PM
Ah I see. Well I would say the basketball team is in a little better shape than the football team. I mean I'm bigger than some of our football players. And I don't think the basketball team recruits within their PE classes...haha.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 03:46:50 PM
Ah I see. Well I would say the basketball team is in a little better shape than the football team. I mean I'm bigger than some of our football players. And I don't think the basketball team recruits within their PE classes...haha.

Wow, sounds like their recuriting budget is a tad low.  I can see the following conversation happening between a coach and a semi-thletic yet still awkward Sophomore.

Hey your hands are good enough to catch the ball most of the time, and you can change directions without falling over...have you ever played football?  Well have you ever thought about it?  Well you should suit up and come out to practice, there are lots of opportunities to play here at LC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 21, 2008, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 03:46:50 PM
Ah I see. Well I would say the basketball team is in a little better shape than the football team. I mean I'm bigger than some of our football players. And I don't think the basketball team recruits within their PE classes...haha.

Wow, sounds like their recuriting budget is a tad low.  I can see the following conversation happening between a coach and a semi-thletic yet still awkward Sophomore.

Hey your hands are good enough to catch the ball most of the time, and you can change directions without falling over...have you ever played football?  Well have you ever thought about it?  Well you should suit up and come out to practice, there are lots of opportunities to play here at UPS*.

*Fixed
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:13:50 PM
Well actually that wouldn't totally apply to UPS.  They aren't all that interested in throwing and catching the ball.  They tried that this year and that really didn't workout too well. 

We all know Linfield has a good football program, and that all of you Linfield posters have a monopoly on NWC football board
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 04:18:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 03:46:50 PM
Ah I see. Well I would say the basketball team is in a little better shape than the football team. I mean I'm bigger than some of our football players. And I don't think the basketball team recruits within their PE classes...haha.

Wow, sounds like their recuriting budget is a tad low.  I can see the following conversation happening between a coach and a semi-thletic yet still awkward Sophomore.

Hey your hands are good enough to catch the ball most of the time, and you can change directions without falling over...have you ever played football?  Well have you ever thought about it?  Well you should suit up and come out to practice, there are lots of opportunities to play here at LC.

haha...basically.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:27:09 PM
Pio20, are thinking about road tripping up to check out the game tomorrow.  The fieldhouse will be packed and it will have a great atmosphere!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 04:37:10 PM
We are contemplating it. I also really want to see our girls take on UPS and see if they can't pull an upset like they did against George Fox. Also, I've never been to UPS and I would love to add it on to the list of places we have road tripped to including Linfield, George Fox, Whitworth, PLU, and Willamette.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2008, 04:42:23 PM
Agreed Logshow.  LC's two final games are VERY tough too.  Just saying that Willamette can easily drop both, so there is still plenty reason for LC to fight.  I still think Linfield has the better road, even though they begin the weekend a game behind Willamette.  I'm predicting that no team gets to win #10 and that there will be a 3 or 4 way tie.

And about football, oh, Pacific doesn't have one, never mind............
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 21, 2008, 04:42:23 PM
so there is still plenty reason for LC to fight

I think we know that...I just wonder if they do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2008, 05:12:11 PM
Well I hope they do fight Pio20, I hope all 9 teams do, its been a great conference this year and it would be a shame if a few, or even one, didn't give their all this final weekend, regardless of where they are in the standings or if they can or can't get in the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2008, 05:37:37 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 21, 2008, 05:12:11 PM
Well I hope they do fight Pio20, I hope all 9 teams do, its been a great conference this year and it would be a shame if a few, or even one, didn't give their all this final weekend, regardless of where they are in the standings or if they can or can't get in the tourney.

Yes yes..I agree.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 07:43:03 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 21, 2008, 05:12:11 PM
Well I hope they do fight Pio20, I hope all 9 teams do, its been a great conference this year and it would be a shame if a few, or even one, didn't give their all this final weekend, regardless of where they are in the standings or if they can or can't get in the tourney.

I agree.  And I wouldn't want UPS given anything.  It means so much more when they earn it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 08:35:27 PM
Tomorrow night is a big day in finally figuring out where all the teams end up!

Here is the schedule for tomorrow:

Feb. 22
Whitworth at George Fox

Linfield at Pacific Lutheran

Lewis & Clark at Puget Sound

Willamette at Pacific
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2008, 12:34:10 AM
I will be setting the 24 hour clock here in about 30 minutes.  We should know alot more about then.  I think I will go to the WW game Fri and the UPS game Sat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 12:46:12 AM
Come on Logshow, how you gonna throw out the schedule without predictions?

What do you think about these?

UPS 95, LC 82

Pacific 77, Willamette 70

PLU 99, Linfield 96

Whitworth 79, George Fox 75
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 01:00:37 AM
You know I am good for a prediction...just not yet :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 12:51:10 PM
My predictions:

LC is down 13 with 3 minutes left until Robinowitz hits four threes in a row. LC finds themselves up with 4 seconds left 71-69. LC fouls the Antwan Williams shooting a three point shooter with 0.2 seconds left and Williams misses the first...makes the second...and for the tie he airballs it! LC 71 UPS 70!!!

Pacific 81, Willamette 70-Willamette is really not that good. I promise.

Linfield 86, PLU 72

Whitworth 72, George Fox 55
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 01:11:14 PM
Bold predictions Pio20, I can see the LC/UPS game being that close and crazy.  I would like to see my Boxers win by double digits.  I can see Fox not being able to keep Whitworth from running away from them, but the Linfield/PLU prediction, you think they can go on the road and get it done by double digits?  They have one road conference win, at Whitman.  PLU is struggling, having lost 4 straight including giving Whitman their only win, and they were everyone's darlings early in conference and now they sit in 7th, do you think they've checked out?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 01:29:43 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 01:11:14 PM
Bold predictions Pio20, I can see the LC/UPS game being that close and crazy.  I would like to see my Boxers win by double digits.  I can see Fox not being able to keep Whitworth from running away from them, but the Linfield/PLU prediction, you think they can go on the road and get it done by double digits?  They have one road conference win, at Whitman.  PLU is struggling, having lost 4 straight including giving Whitman their only win, and they were everyone's darlings early in conference and now they sit in 7th, do you think they've checked out?

Well I may have been exaggerating slightly on the LC game..haha. But I could see a similar scenario happening. LC has nothing to lose and I have a feeling threes will be flying tonight (more than the usual, which is a lot). I thought they would be the third seed. Dressler is one of the better players I have seen this year, but Linfield has more to play for and I think they will come out ready and PLU will give in quick. Of course it is the NWC, so PLU will probably win by one on a buzzer beater.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 02:38:31 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 01:11:14 PM
Bold predictions Pio20, I can see the LC/UPS game being that close and crazy.  I would like to see my Boxers win by double digits.  I can see Fox not being able to keep Whitworth from running away from them, but the Linfield/PLU prediction, you think they can go on the road and get it done by double digits?  They have one road conference win, at Whitman.  PLU is struggling, having lost 4 straight including giving Whitman their only win, and they were everyone's darlings early in conference and now they sit in 7th, do you think they've checked out?

In one word...yes.

They lost to Whitman!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 02:51:23 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 12:51:10 PM
My predictions:

LC is down 13 with 3 minutes left until Robinowitz hits four threes in a row. LC finds themselves up with 4 seconds left 71-69. LC fouls the Antwan Williams shooting a three point shooter with 0.2 seconds left and Williams misses the first...makes the second...and for the tie he airballs it! LC 71 UPS 70!!!

Pacific 81, Willamette 70-Willamette is really not that good. I promise.

Linfield 86, PLU 72

Whitworth 72, George Fox 55


Very interesting predictions :)

Of course I will have to disagree with you about the UPS/LC game.  Robinowitz never has good games against UPS...he seems very uncomfortable against the UPS pressure.  I think that UPS will come out hot and ready to play.  I don't necessarily think that they will roll to victory, but I think they will be ready to play.  UPS knows what LC is capable of (up 26), but they also know they LC doesn't handle pressure that well (blowing a 26 point lead and falling apart).  I think it will come down to, can UPS take away LC's shooters?  And can UPS keep Tillery from getting to the hoop?  Its hard to do both, but I think UPS can do it.  I just don't see them losing, they are playing their last games at home and for a conference championship.  UPS 101  LC 87

Pac and Willamette is a tough game to call...I might have to lean towards Willamette.  Coach James has done a heck of a job there, with really no talent.  Willamette 73-Pac 72

Linfield is not a good road team.  PLU may have checked out, but they are playing their last home games as well...based on those to obersavations I just don't see Linfiled winning.
PLU 86  Linfiled 80

On now the biggest game of the weekend!  G Fox hosting WW.  I think this is going to be a great game, I wish I could watch it!  WW is tough, but G Fox has been hot the second half of league.  It may be a bit of a homer call, but being a Logger fan of course I want G Fox to win...and you never know it could.  G Fox is a tough place to play, and I think G Fox will get them.  WW  72  G Fox 78
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 03:10:07 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 12:51:10 PM
My predictions:

LC is down 13 with 3 minutes left until Robinowitz hits four threes in a row. LC finds themselves up with 4 seconds left 71-69. LC fouls the Antwan Williams shooting a three point shooter with 0.2 seconds left and Williams misses the first...makes the second...and for the tie he airballs it! LC 71 UPS 70!!!

Pacific 81, Willamette 70-Willamette is really not that good. I promise.

Linfield 86, PLU 72

Whitworth 72, George Fox 55


Interesting that Pio can "promise" that Willamette is "really not that good" since they beat LC 82/71 and 82/77.  I was at both games and neither was as nail biting as the buzzer beater game against Linfield!  They (WU) also beat Whitworth in Spokane.

I predict the LC/UPS game to be close, and depending on which LC team shows up, they could win it.  No question that there is an abundance of talent on that team, they just don't play well together on most nights.  The different scenarios for 2nd & 3rd place in the conference could drive one crazy, given the schedule this weekend.  I'd say UPS is the most vulnerable because they have to play LC & Willamette.  Yes, they're playing at home, but does that matter this season?

Linfield can beat PLU and will most probably win at home on Senior night.  In conference play, they are undefeated at home.

It will be an interesting weekend.    Go Bearcats!  (Take your night goggles to Forest Grove--it's dark out there!)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 03:22:05 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 03:10:07 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 12:51:10 PM
My predictions:

LC is down 13 with 3 minutes left until Robinowitz hits four threes in a row. LC finds themselves up with 4 seconds left 71-69. LC fouls the Antwan Williams shooting a three point shooter with 0.2 seconds left and Williams misses the first...makes the second...and for the tie he airballs it! LC 71 UPS 70!!!

Pacific 81, Willamette 70-Willamette is really not that good. I promise.

Linfield 86, PLU 72

Whitworth 72, George Fox 55


Interesting that Pio can "promise" that Willamette is "really not that good" since they beat LC 82/71 and 82/77.  I was at both games and neither was as nail biting as the buzzer beater game against Linfield!  They (WU) also beat Whitworth in Spokane.

I predict the LC/UPS game to be close, and depending on which LC team shows up, they could win it.  No question that there is an abundance of talent on that team, they just don't play well together on most nights.  The different scenarios for 2nd & 3rd place in the conference could drive one crazy, given the schedule this weekend.  I'd say UPS is the most vulnerable because they have to play LC & Willamette.  Yes, they're playing at home, but does that matter this season?

Linfield can beat PLU and will most probably win at home on Senior night.  In conference play, they are undefeated at home.

It will be an interesting weekend.    Go Bearcats!  (Take your night goggles to Forest Grove--it's dark out there!)

In both games LC was up by 12 or more. Bottom line is that Willamette beat LC twice so yes that says they are better. But it is my humble opinion that LC didn't lose those games because Willamette was better. Rather, LC fell apart like they have all year. I still think between Linfield, PLU, and Willamette PLU is the best team. Of course the standings show different. But then again the standings are all that really matter.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 03:32:29 PM
The score at half time or being ahead 2 minutes before the game ends doesn't matter -- it's who gets the W at the end of the night.  This ain't soccer where you get credit for a tie!  I'll concede that LC has more individual talent than WU, but they have seven seniors to WU's two!  Most people call that "experience." The Bearcats play team basketball & that makes all the difference! 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 03:39:09 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 03:32:29 PM
The score at half time or being ahead 2 minutes before the game ends doesn't matter -- it's who gets the W at the end of the night.  This ain't soccer where you get credit for a tie!  I'll concede that LC has more individual talent than WU, but they have seven seniors to WU's two!  Most people call that "experience." The Bearcats play team basketball & that makes all the difference! 



I realize this and I agree. My point is that LC should have blown those games wide open but instead choked like they have all season. I do give credit to Willamette. I'm just saying I don't think they are that great of a team. I'm not saying LC is any better because clearly they aren't.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
"I still think between Linfield, PLU, and Willamette PLU is the best team" -Pio 20

Why?  ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
So since it's agreed that LC has all this talent, 4 returning all league players from a championship team, a ton of experience, along with some solid new guys.  Picked UNANIMOUSLY to come in first by the coaches, why the struggles?

When do you look at the coaches?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
"I still think between Linfield, PLU, and Willamette PLU is the best team" -Pio 20

Why?  ???

Well they were the better team the first half of the season...they have really fallen apart down the stretch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:17:43 PM
"(Take your night goggles to Forest Grove--it's dark out there!)" -bbaddict

Just how we like it!!!!

Maybe the Bearcats practiced with their shades on this week in preparation 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:18:51 PM
very true...I think Pac can be considered a nocturnal team :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
"I still think between Linfield, PLU, and Willamette PLU is the best team" -Pio 20

Why?  ???

Well they were the better team the first half of the season...they have really fallen apart down the stretch.

But we're not in the first half of the season anymore, they have the longest current losing streak in the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:21:59 PM
Well I am basing that off of when I saw the teams play. PLU was the team that stuck out to me the most. I think PLU BEAT LC twice as supposed to LC LOSING to Willamette twice. I don't have stats or anything, I'm just going off what I saw this season. Then again I only saw those teams play LC so my view may be skewed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
So since it's agreed that LC has all this talent, 4 returning all league players from a championship team, a ton of experience, along with some solid new guys.  Picked UNANIMOUSLY to come in first by the coaches, why the struggles?

When do you look at the coaches?

I haven't been able to figure out LC this year.  Nothing changed on their team from this year to last year except they added a pretty good post player.  The only thing that I can think of is that they are a team full of egos.  And when egos dont get enough playing time/shots/ect. then they get upset.  I just don't think that has allowed this LC team to gel.  I don't know when you start looking at the coaches....but I don't envy Gailard for having to deal with a bunch of me-first players, even if they have loads of talent.  Talent doesn't equate to success.  

Case in point, Willamette this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
So since it's agreed that LC has all this talent, 4 returning all league players from a championship team, a ton of experience, along with some solid new guys.  Picked UNANIMOUSLY to come in first by the coaches, why the struggles?

When do you look at the coaches?

I could definitely see Gaillard leaving after this year. This was supposed to be "the year." Apparently he was going to stay until Jeff Christensen graduated, which would have been the end of this year, but he transferred.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:26:02 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
"I still think between Linfield, PLU, and Willamette PLU is the best team" -Pio 20

Why?  ???

Well they were the better team the first half of the season...they have really fallen apart down the stretch.

But we're not in the first half of the season anymore, they have the longest current losing streak in the conference.

I am definately agreeing with you NWCer, just trying to maybe understand Pio's reasoning.  PLU is a completely different team this half...not sure what really happened to them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:26:46 PM
Did Christianson transferr this past year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:29:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
So since it's agreed that LC has all this talent, 4 returning all league players from a championship team, a ton of experience, along with some solid new guys.  Picked UNANIMOUSLY to come in first by the coaches, why the struggles?

When do you look at the coaches?

I haven't been able to figure out LC this year.  Nothing changed on their team from this year to last year except they added a pretty good post player.  The only thing that I can think of is that they are a team full of egos.  And when egos dont get enough playing time/shots/ect. then they get upset.  I just don't think that has allowed this LC team to gel.  I don't know when you start looking at the coaches....but I don't envy Gailard for having to deal with a bunch of me-first players, even if they have loads of talent.  Talent doesn't equate to success. 

Case in point, Willamette this year.

I don't think it has to do with egos. I know Corey Allen was unhappy with his playing time. But besides that I think everyone was content. I think part of it was the early pressure to perform well. This team was not used to that. Remember that last season they were 4-3 before they came together and won conference. I think this year they just never really came together that same way. For what reasons I don't know. I think part of it was bringing in transfers who were supposed to contribute. It may have thrown off the team balance somewhat. Tyson Papenfuss was our leading scorer up through non-conference and then his scoring went straight down as I think we tried to go back to what we did last year and knew could win conference. Even when we were up 26 we looked uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:30:55 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:26:46 PM
Did Christianson transferr this past year?


Yeah he walked on at Eastern Washington and is redshirting. He was also a big part of last year's  team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:32:39 PM
When you live and die by the 3 like LC does, there are lots of ups and downs...you can beat any team, or lose to the worst team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCPios07 on February 22, 2008, 04:33:17 PM
Just wanted to point out that it is not the "same exact team as last year" for LC. Christiansen started and played a lot of minutes last year. Definitely not THE reason for LC's struggles, but it isn't quite the same exact team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:33:54 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:26:02 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
"I still think between Linfield, PLU, and Willamette PLU is the best team" -Pio 20

Why?  ???

Well they were the better team the first half of the season...they have really fallen apart down the stretch.

But we're not in the first half of the season anymore, they have the longest current losing streak in the conference.

I am definately agreeing with you NWCer, just trying to maybe understand Pio's reasoning.  PLU is a completely different team this half...not sure what really happened to them.

When I saw them play was when they were still winning, so perhaps my thought that they are the better team is no longer valid. Maybe I should say were the better team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:34:33 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:30:55 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:26:46 PM
Did Christianson transferr this past year?


Yeah he walked on at Eastern Washington and is redshirting. He was also a big part of last year's  team.

That might be a huge part as to why LC has struggled this year and shouldn't be overlooked.  Sounds like he was a chemistry guy who could gel a team.  Not to mention he was a pretty good player too.  I had forgotten about him transferring.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:36:33 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:32:39 PM
When you live and die by the 3 like LC does, there are lots of ups and downs...you can beat any team, or lose to the worst team

This is very true, and Dave Berrgren never really found his stroke this year. He was another big part of that run last year. But by the same token, Tillery and Papenfuss took the ball inside a lot. So I don't think all their struggles can be placed on the three ball. If anything I think the struggles were more in their head than the court.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:37:34 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:33:54 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:26:02 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:19:05 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
"I still think between Linfield, PLU, and Willamette PLU is the best team" -Pio 20

Why?  ???

Well they were the better team the first half of the season...they have really fallen apart down the stretch.

But we're not in the first half of the season anymore, they have the longest current losing streak in the conference.

I am definately agreeing with you NWCer, just trying to maybe understand Pio's reasoning.  PLU is a completely different team this half...not sure what really happened to them.

When I saw them play was when they were still winning, so perhaps my thought that they are the better team is no longer valid. Maybe I should say were the better team.

True...Its the same sort of thing, I only saw PLU play the 2 games against UPS and they looked like the one of the top 2 teams in the conference those games.  But their record speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:42:29 PM
If you look at the stats from LC's game against Willamette, its quite interesting.  Tillery goes 14/19 scores 32 points.  Two of those misses are from 3-point so he only missed 3 shot inside the arch.  That is extemely efficient, usually the team that gets that type of preformance wins...yet LC loses the game.  I guess it could be because they only made 8/18 FTs. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:50:30 PM
I hear were you were coming from Pio20.  PLU was hot early on, but didn't they beat your Pios when Rivera and their transfer guard wasn't playing?  Not to harp on the PLU thing (especially since my Boxers have them this weekend at their place), but not only are they the only team to lose to Whitman, but they are the only other team other than Whitman NOT to beat one of the two top teams (Whitworth and UPS) in league at least once. 

I remember Christensen, solid player, but LC's play can't be blamed on him leaving, they still had plenty left, and were picked, once again, UNANIMOUSLY, to win it all, that means their coach voted for them as well, so they thought they were going to be champions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:52:38 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 04:42:29 PM
If you look at the stats from LC's game against Willamette, its quite interesting.  Tillery goes 14/19 scores 32 points.  Two of those misses are from 3-point so he only missed 3 shot inside the arch.  That is extemely efficient, usually the team that gets that type of preformance wins...yet LC loses the game.  I guess it could be because they only made 8/18 FTs. 

Or the 15% from three in the second half. But yeah the free throw shooting was sad. River airballed one and it was in his head the rest of the game. Went 0-4 his final four free throws. This is why I'm saying LC beat themselves against Willamette. It wasn't the Willamette  defense was amazing. The Pios just collapsed like always, on both sides of the floor. They gave up way too many offensive rebounds too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:50:30 PM
I hear were you were coming from Pio20.  PLU was hot early on, but didn't they beat your Pios when Rivera and their transfer guard wasn't playing?  Not to harp on the PLU thing (especially since my Boxers have them this weekend at their place), but not only are they the only team to lose to Whitman, but they are the only other team other than Whitman NOT to beat one of the two top teams (Whitworth and UPS) in league at least once. 

I remember Christensen, solid player, but LC's play can't be blamed on him leaving, they still had plenty left, and were picked, once again, UNANIMOUSLY, to win it all, that means their coach voted for them as well, so they thought they were going to be champions.

Yeah Rivera and Kollasch were out in that game. But they also beat us fair and square the second time. And yeah Christensen was solid but I don't think there was ever a thought that his leaving would mean LC not having success. Just didn't get it done.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 05:18:28 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
So since it's agreed that LC has all this talent, 4 returning all league players from a championship team, a ton of experience, along with some solid new guys.  Picked UNANIMOUSLY to come in first by the coaches, why the struggles?

When do you look at the coaches?

I could definitely see Gaillard leaving after this year. This was supposed to be "the year." Apparently he was going to stay until Jeff Christensen graduated, which would have been the end of this year, but he transferred.

I wasn't at all implying that a change should be made, the LC coach is a long time success and is a winner, and its great having someone of his background in the conference.  But that doesn't mean he's immune to simply having a "bad year", the way a player can have a bad year, coaches can too, and maybe this was just the case.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 05:18:28 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
So since it's agreed that LC has all this talent, 4 returning all league players from a championship team, a ton of experience, along with some solid new guys.  Picked UNANIMOUSLY to come in first by the coaches, why the struggles?

When do you look at the coaches?

I could definitely see Gaillard leaving after this year. This was supposed to be "the year." Apparently he was going to stay until Jeff Christensen graduated, which would have been the end of this year, but he transferred.


I wasn't at all implying that a change should be made, the LC coach is a long time success and is a winner, and its great having someone of his background in the conference.  But that doesn't mean he's immune to simply having a "bad year", the way a player can have a bad year, coaches can too, and maybe this was just the case.

There has been talk of him leaving previous to this year though. So I wouldn't be suprised. I don't think he needs to go at all though. I think he has done a great job.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 05:18:28 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
So since it's agreed that LC has all this talent, 4 returning all league players from a championship team, a ton of experience, along with some solid new guys.  Picked UNANIMOUSLY to come in first by the coaches, why the struggles?

When do you look at the coaches?

I could definitely see Gaillard leaving after this year. This was supposed to be "the year." Apparently he was going to stay until Jeff Christensen graduated, which would have been the end of this year, but he transferred.


I wasn't at all implying that a change should be made, the LC coach is a long time success and is a winner, and its great having someone of his background in the conference.  But that doesn't mean he's immune to simply having a "bad year", the way a player can have a bad year, coaches can too, and maybe this was just the case.

There has been talk of him leaving previous to this year though. So I wouldn't be suprised. I don't think he needs to go at all though. I think he has done a great job.


Yeah I think you want to hold on to him.  From what I hear it's tough to be a winner at LC and he has done that.  If he goes does Bigfella get the job?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 05:36:23 PM
I would say 99% chance he gets it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 05:47:40 PM
Great odds for him.  It sounds like you're close to the situation there, how do you think he'll do?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 05:59:20 PM
It's hard to say. He is a great recruiter but a lot of the players don't care for him. I think right now as an assistant his main role is to motivate, which sometimes means him just yelling at the players. But I think if he stepped up he would have more strategy to take care of and hopefully there would be more teaching on the sidelines as supposed to yelling. He is also very intense, which I like. I don't think I've ever seen Gaillard get fired up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 06:05:25 PM
So ... who's the hater who's dinkin with my Karma?  Just because I'm the only one on this board rooting for the Bearcats --- what's the story?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 06:12:08 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 06:05:25 PM
So ... who's the hater who's dinkin with my Karma?  Just because I'm the only one on this board rooting for the Bearcats --- what's the story?

How do you control karma?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 06:16:06 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 22, 2008, 04:50:30 PM
I hear were you were coming from Pio20.  PLU was hot early on, but didn't they beat your Pios when Rivera and their transfer guard wasn't playing?  Not to harp on the PLU thing (especially since my Boxers have them this weekend at their place), but not only are they the only team to lose to Whitman, but they are the only other team other than Whitman NOT to beat one of the two top teams (Whitworth and UPS) in league at least once. 

I remember Christensen, solid player, but LC's play can't be blamed on him leaving, they still had plenty left, and were picked, once again, UNANIMOUSLY, to win it all, that means their coach voted for them as well, so they thought they were going to be champions.

Yeah Rivera and Kollasch were out in that game. But they also beat us fair and square the second time. And yeah Christensen was solid but I don't think there was ever a thought that his leaving would mean LC not having success. Just didn't get it done.

True, but you see it all the time on sports teams.  One guy leaves and the team just isn't the same.  Or a team brings in one player...maybe not a great player, but one that turns the team around because of his presence in the locker room.  These guys are oten overlooked, but just have a way of bringing guys together and keeping everyone happy and on the same page.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 06:17:21 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 05:59:20 PM
It's hard to say. He is a great recruiter but a lot of the players don't care for him. I think right now as an assistant his main role is to motivate, which sometimes means him just yelling at the players. But I think if he stepped up he would have more strategy to take care of and hopefully there would be more teaching on the sidelines as supposed to yelling. He is also very intense, which I like. I don't think I've ever seen Gaillard get fired up.

I would have thought that Gaillard was a really firey guy.  I thought he seemed pretty intense on the sideline.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 06:27:32 PM
NWHoops,  that 24 hour clock is ticking down...only about 6 and a half hours left till the picture becomes much more clear
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 06:38:21 PM
Seriously.  I think the only team that is secure in the top 3 right now is Whitworth.  They could lose to George Fox and still be in second.  The crazy scenarios that come up with UPS, WU, LC, Linfield and even Pacific, are boggling.

Does anyone else wonder why no NWC teams made the regional rankings?  Out of 9 teams, 6 are over .500 for conference going into the final weekend.  Pretty stiff competition here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 06:42:18 PM
Oh, and Pio -- karma is one of the mysteries of the universe and D3hoops that is controlled by the old timers on the board.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 06:59:16 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 06:38:21 PM
Seriously.  I think the only team that is secure in the top 3 right now is Whitworth.  They could lose to George Fox and still be in second.  The crazy scenarios that come up with UPS, WU, LC, Linfield and even Pacific, are boggling.

Does anyone else wonder why no NWC teams made the regional rankings?  Out of 9 teams, 6 are over .500 for conference going into the final weekend.  Pretty stiff competition here.

Way too many in-region losses.  It doesn't just deal with conference records but all in-region games.  WW has lost 5 in-region games while UPS has lost 4.  With all the losses in west region ranking there is a very slight chance that one of those teams could make the rankings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 07:14:11 PM
Thanks for the explanation LogShow.  So, I assume you're headed out to the UPS/LC game tonight?  I'll be at Pacific vs. WU, wondering about the other games for sure!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 07:26:58 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 06:17:21 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 05:59:20 PM
It's hard to say. He is a great recruiter but a lot of the players don't care for him. I think right now as an assistant his main role is to motivate, which sometimes means him just yelling at the players. But I think if he stepped up he would have more strategy to take care of and hopefully there would be more teaching on the sidelines as supposed to yelling. He is also very intense, which I like. I don't think I've ever seen Gaillard get fired up.

I would have thought that Gaillard was a really firey guy.  I thought he seemed pretty intense on the sideline.

He is not laid back by any means, but compared to Dinari he is a teddy bear.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 08:07:37 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2008, 07:14:11 PM
Thanks for the explanation LogShow.  So, I assume you're headed out to the UPS/LC game tonight?  I'll be at Pacific vs. WU, wondering about the other games for sure!

You're welcome.  Yes, I will definately be supporting my loggers.  It will be killing me to not know the score of the WW/G Fox game...hopefully the PA announcer will give a few updates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 08:09:03 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 07:26:58 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 06:17:21 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2008, 05:59:20 PM
It's hard to say. He is a great recruiter but a lot of the players don't care for him. I think right now as an assistant his main role is to motivate, which sometimes means him just yelling at the players. But I think if he stepped up he would have more strategy to take care of and hopefully there would be more teaching on the sidelines as supposed to yelling. He is also very intense, which I like. I don't think I've ever seen Gaillard get fired up.

I would have thought that Gaillard was a really firey guy.  I thought he seemed pretty intense on the sideline.

He is not laid back by any means, but compared to Dinari he is a teddy bear.

That's pretty interesting, Dinari never struck me a intense guy...he is the one looking more like a teddy bear, lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2008, 08:56:51 PM
You don't have to be an old-timer, but karma can be added to or taken away from by anyone with 200 or more posts once per 24 hours.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2008, 08:56:51 PM
You don't have to be an old-timer, but karma can be added to or taken away from by anyone with 200 or more posts once per 24 hours.

Let me guess...that answer was under frequently asked questions :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 09:03:50 PM
Good Luck tonight Logs!  Lets take one more step to that NWC crown!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 12:46:27 AM
LC looking for payback at UPS tonight.  Leading by 14 with 4:00 to go!  Will UPS comeback?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 01:21:01 AM
So if LC and WIL win Sat does UPS miss playoffs?  OMG...Did  I mention something about tanking both games...LOWER MY KARMA...I DON'T CARE!

Whitworth is champ.  We will see whomever next weekend in the snowy fieldhouse. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 01:47:33 AM
at a loss for words...that did not look like a UPS team tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 01:48:36 AM
UPS absolutely has to win tomorrow.  How can they not on Senior night
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 01:50:28 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 01:21:01 AM
So if LC and WIL win Sat does UPS miss playoffs?  OMG...Did  I mention something about tanking both games...LOWER MY KARMA...I DON'T CARE!

Whitworth is champ.  We will see whomever next weekend in the snowy fieldhouse. 

NWHoops, you won't get any Karma lowering from me.  WW won it fair in square.  UPS had more then they deserved in chances, but could never capitalize...congrats to WW their record says they are the best team.  I just hope UPS gets one more chance to play them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 23, 2008, 02:01:13 AM
Wow, I was at the Pac/Will game and they updated us at half of the LC/UPS game, was stunned, even more stunned by the final, what happened Logshow? 

Pac and Willamette really battled, once again, too much Howe and Van Domelen, fun game, the McClary kid is gooooooodddd!

Congrats to Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 02:29:56 AM
Standings after tonight:

Whitworth             12-4             Reg. season Champion.  Host next Sat.
Puget Sound         10-5             
Lewis & Clark          9-6           
Willamette               9-6
Linfield                     8-7
Pacific                      8-7
Pacific Lutheran      7-8
George Fox           4-11   
Whitman               1-14
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 02:37:22 AM
Now tomorrow will be fun.  Do we all agree?

UPS can get 2nd with a win
UPS can get 3rd if they lose and LC loses.
UPS gets eliminated if they lose and LC wins by virtue of WIL's and LC's record vs WW (1-1)

What's interesting is if LC and WIL lose and LIN and PAC win.  4 way tie for 3rd.

All 4 split with WW so who did what vs UPS?  Back tomorrow AM.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 23, 2008, 03:02:44 AM
God knows I don't want my Boxers losing at PLU tomorrow, but if they do, then that means 7 teams would be .500 or better, has that ever happenned?  I say leave Whitman at home and have an 8 team tourney....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 23, 2008, 03:22:14 AM
Wow, got to say hats off to the Pirates on the NWC title.  Not many folks expected them to win again after graduating four starters and the conference player of the year.

I know folks could make solid cases for Coach James and even Coach Doty, but how does Jim Hayford not get NWC Coach of the Year this season based on the above?

And if Symes gets Player of the Year, that will be three straight Pirates (all different) getting that award - Pecht, Williams and Symes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 23, 2008, 03:23:29 AM
Personally I think L&C is scary right now and if they get into the conference tournament, they are very dangerous.  Based on their results over the last couple of weekends, they seem to have found their stride.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 23, 2008, 03:26:16 AM
By the way, welcome back BBaddict.  It's good to have that Bearcat voice back in here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 03:30:59 AM
OK, I'm confused.  People keep referring to Whitworth as the Conference Champ for 2008, but according to the NWC website info, they still need to win the 3 team tourney to earn that right.   A few years ago it automatically went to the team with the best season, but that's not how the rules are written now.  They finished first in the standings in the Conference, but to be the Champ, you have to win out.

Quoted from Governance section of NWC site:
5.0 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP
5.l Determination of Conference Champion
5.1.1 The champion will be the winner of the NWC championship
basketball tournament. (Adopted Spring 2004)
5.2 Dates and Times
5.2.1 The NWC postseason tournament shall begin on the Wednesday and
Thursday following completion of regular season play. The #2 seed shall
host the #3 seed.
The tournament championship shall be played on Friday and Saturday. The #1 seed
shall host the winners of Wednesday's and Thursday's contests. Women and Men
will alternate the Wednesday/Friday and Thursday/Saturday schedule (Women in
even # years, Men in odd # years). The winning teams are the conference automatic
qualifiers to the NCAA III tournament. (Adopted December, 2006)
5.2.2 Game times will be determined in accordance with the NWC
Tournament Guidelines (Adopted December, 2006)

Anybody want to comment?  I personally am holding my breath for tomorrow's results -- it's a crazy year for NWC basketball.  Seems like anybody could win it at this point -- except for Fox or Whitman!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 03:35:11 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 23, 2008, 03:02:44 AM
God knows I don't want my Boxers losing at PLU tomorrow, but if they do, then that means 7 teams would be .500 or better, has that ever happenned?  I say leave Whitman at home and have an 8 team tourney....

I think an 8 team tourney is a great idea!!  The Boxers really played well tonight & WU was not so stellar.  It's REALLY dark in that gym!!  Do you really think you'll win at PLU?  What's your road record?

And, apparently L&C hasn't rolled over yet given the score of the UPS/LC game.  Seems that Joey Taboni had quite a night?

I can't believe how the playoff picture is going down to the last games of the regular season --- when was the last time that happened?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 23, 2008, 03:57:06 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 03:30:59 AM
OK, I'm confused.  People keep referring to Whitworth as the Conference Champ for 2008, but according to the NWC website info, they still need to win the 3 team tourney to earn that right.   A few years ago it automatically went to the team with the best season, but that's not how the rules are written now.  They finished first in the standings in the Conference, but to be the Champ, you have to win out.

Quoted from Governance section of NWC site:
5.0 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP
5.l Determination of Conference Champion
5.1.1 The champion will be the winner of the NWC championship
basketball tournament. (Adopted Spring 2004)
5.2 Dates and Times
5.2.1 The NWC postseason tournament shall begin on the Wednesday and
Thursday following completion of regular season play. The #2 seed shall
host the #3 seed.
The tournament championship shall be played on Friday and Saturday. The #1 seed
shall host the winners of Wednesday's and Thursday's contests. Women and Men
will alternate the Wednesday/Friday and Thursday/Saturday schedule (Women in
even # years, Men in odd # years). The winning teams are the conference automatic
qualifiers to the NCAA III tournament. (Adopted December, 2006)
5.2.2 Game times will be determined in accordance with the NWC
Tournament Guidelines (Adopted December, 2006)

Anybody want to comment?  I personally am holding my breath for tomorrow's results -- it's a crazy year for NWC basketball.  Seems like anybody could win it at this point -- except for Fox or Whitman!

I think people just mean the regular season conference champion. Those are the ones that get the banners in the gym etc. The playoff is really just for the automatic berth to the NCAA tournament. The conference champion is recognized after regular season play.

I was very suprised by the LC-UPS score. Didn't see that coming, but apparently we have UPS' number. I think we just match up with them well because all of our players can handle the ball well when they press. Toboni definitely still wants it. He is the heart and soul of this team for sure. Big game tomorrow at Linfield! I will be there! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 06:33:27 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 23, 2008, 02:01:13 AM
Wow, I was at the Pac/Will game and they updated us at half of the LC/UPS game, was stunned, even more stunned by the final, what happened Logshow? 

Pac and Willamette really battled, once again, too much Howe and Van Domelen, fun game, the McClary kid is gooooooodddd!

Congrats to Whitworth.

all I can say is *sigh* ??? :-\ :'(  Just another very very very frustrating game to watch
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 06:34:04 AM
I have no answers...that was not UPS basketball. I don't know who showed up on the floor
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 11:30:50 AM
Well it all comes down to tonight...UPS has to win against Willamette.  If Linfield can hold off LC then there would be a 4 way tie for 3rd place.  If they all split against each other and all split against WW it would go to how they did against UPS.  Linfield, LC split.  Willamette depends on tonight, but UPS already beat them in Salem.  And Pac got swept by UPS.  So It would pretty much be between LC and Linfield.  I think the next criteria is record against teams below the tie so that would be against PLU (assuming Pac is in the tie-breaker).  I think Linfield has the edge here as I think PLU has beaten LC twice.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 01:33:54 PM
bbaddict wrote: "OK, I'm confused.  People keep referring to Whitworth as the Conference Champ for 2008, but according to the NWC website info, they still need to win the 3 team tourney to earn that right"

Conference Champion is recognized by REGULAR season record which is why LC and WW were co-champions last year.

From the preseason poll: "Lewis & Clark College, a co-champion of the Northwest Conference last season, is a unanimous pick to win the title in 2007-08, according to the preseason poll of NWC coaches...Whitworth University, the other co-champion from last winter, is third in the poll with 61 points"

The verbage is to determine the auto-berth and to name a conference champion for the NCAA tourney.  It is a bit clumsy in how it is written in my opinion, but perhaps it has to be like that to satisfy the NCAA.

There will be no co-champ in next years press releases because WW has won it for 2008.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
But they still have to earn their trip to the national tournament
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 23, 2008, 03:22:14 AM
I know folks could make solid cases for Coach James and even Coach Doty, but how does Jim Hayford not get NWC Coach of the Year this season based on the above?

And if Symes gets Player of the Year, that will be three straight Pirates (all different) getting that award - Pecht, Williams and Symes.

He has done an amazing job this year.  Replacing an entire 3 man senior backcourt and POTY with a transfer and frosh, then losing his post for the second half of season.  The award should be on his door step this morning.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
But they still have to earn their trip to the national tournament
Indeed
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Chuck_Curtis on February 23, 2008, 01:42:03 PM
Congrats to Whitworth for taking home another championships, but I'm bummed the tournament is in Spokane, it's so far away.  The PLU-Linfield game last night was very good.  It looked like PLU was pulling away from Linfield in OT but the Wildcats kept finding ways to hang in there.  PLU is 4-2 in OT games this season.  Honestly I would rather be 2-4 in if the two wins were against UPS, but what are you going to do.  I'm looking forward to see how the standings end up tonight.  Good luck everyone
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 02:07:16 PM
PLU did push UPS to the brink both times this year.  That's crazy PLU has had 6 OT games this year...I thought the 4 of UPS was a lot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 02:09:14 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 23, 2008, 03:22:14 AM
I know folks could make solid cases for Coach James and even Coach Doty, but how does Jim Hayford not get NWC Coach of the Year this season based on the above?

And if Symes gets Player of the Year, that will be three straight Pirates (all different) getting that award - Pecht, Williams and Symes.

He has done an amazing job this year.  Replacing an entire 3 man senior backcourt and POTY with a transfer and frosh, then losing his post for the second half of season.  The award should be on his door step this morning.

I will be much more interested in talking about awards and POY after the regualr season finishes up tonight. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 23, 2008, 02:43:32 PM
How could the player of the year NOT be Symes.  I think its as easy a choice as Hayford for Coach of the year.  Who are the other players on first team?  That's the question.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 03:59:55 PM
5.1.1 The champion will be the winner of the NWC championship
basketball tournament. (Adopted Spring 2004)

Do you people read?  I know most of you went to college or are still there!  I don't care what "tradition" says -- this is from the Governance section of the NWC site.   I don't write this crap -- I just find it & read it and sometimes it's confusing!  Just for the record, there is usually a lot of incorrect assumptions about the whole crazy tie breaker thing this time of year as well. 

"Coach Hayford should be Coach of the Year"  --- agreed!  It's also his first year without his co-coach, Rodney Wecker.  He did an outstanding job and deserves to be honored for it.

Just on a side note.  If Whitworth doesn't win the NWC Championship game -- it won't matter because they won't go to the NCAA playoffs as our automatic bid.  That's what I'm talking about so don't treat me like I'm stupid.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 23, 2008, 02:43:32 PM
How could the player of the year NOT be Symes.  I think its as easy a choice as Hayford for Coach of the year.  Who are the other players on first team?  That's the question.

Agreed about Symes.  But I do think Coach James deserves some consideration.  He has gotten the most out of the least.  Dont they only suit up like 9 players?  They have really turned it around in conference play.  He has squeezed every drop of potential out of his kids.  Hayford has done great job, but he had loads more talent to work with (Symes, Williamson, and a really solid/polished JC kid in Nakamura)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 03:59:55 PM
5.1.1 The champion will be the winner of the NWC championship
basketball tournament. (Adopted Spring 2004)

Do you people read?  I know most of you went to college or are still there!  I don't care what "tradition" says -- this is from the Governance section of the NWC site.   I don't write this crap -- I just find it & read it and sometimes it's confusing!  Just for the record, there is usually a lot of incorrect assumptions about the whole crazy tie breaker thing this time of year as well. 

"Coach Hayford should be Coach of the Year"  --- agreed!  It's also his first year without his co-coach, Rodney Wecker.  He did an outstanding job and deserves to be honored for it.

Just on a side note.  If Whitworth doesn't win the NWC Championship game -- it won't matter because they won't go to the NCAA playoffs as our automatic bid.  That's what I'm talking about so don't treat me like I'm stupid.




Hey addict , :o I got some new stuff for you to try...its called a chill pill.

Take a deep breath and relax!  You are getting all worked up and defensive but nobody has even criticized you yet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:41:20 PM
bbaddict please explain why the NWC conference would call LC and WW co-champs this year in preseason if those changes were adopted in 2004?

Please accept the informed opinion that the regular season DOES matter.

And by no means did anyone call you stupid.  You are just being to black and white with your 5.1 governance rule.  Did you read the rest of my post?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:43:50 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:28:06 PM
Agreed about Symes.  But I do think Coach James deserves some consideration.  He has gotten the most out of the least.  Dont they only suit up like 9 players?  They have really turned it around in conference play.  He has squeezed every drop of potential out of his kids.  Hayford has done great job, but he had loads more talent to work with (Symes, Williamson, and a really solid/polished JC kid in Nakamura)

You took the bait.  What happened to waiting til after tonight?  Did you dink my Karma Log after you said you wouldn't?  lol
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:45:09 PM
I know...hook line and sinker!!! :D ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 04:45:34 PM
Hey Logshow -- it's against the rules to deal drugs on this site. :)  

On another note, I agree with you about Coach James, but for different reasons.  He has a way of coaching all players to step up and play as a team, he's not just managing super stars.  For everyone who thinks WU is a no talent team, I'd say look at their stats!  

Isn't it usual for the COTY to go to the coach with the team who has the best W/L record?  If that's the case, then it should be Hayford for sure!

NWhoops -- I can't explain why anything is written the way it is on the NWC site -- that's why I was confused in the first place!  I'm just going with what's written.

Ask the Patriots how muich the regular season MATTERS!!   It's all about the big game or the big dance!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:46:00 PM
And no I didn't dink your Karma.  Scouts honor, I am a man of my word
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 06:34:04 AM
I have no answers...that was not UPS basketball. I don't know who showed up on the floor
Will UPS or the UPS imposters be wearing dresses again tonight?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:48:17 PM
It is all about the National Tourney but...being regualr season champ gives that team a huge advantage towards getting the AQ.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 06:34:04 AM
I have no answers...that was not UPS basketball. I don't know who showed up on the floor
Will UPS or the UPS imposters be wearing dresses again tonight?


Ahhhh...I am not going to take that bait.  The UPS men will be there in full force, its too big of a game.  And its senior night.  And I feel that UPS matches up very well against Willamette.  Their young guards have a tough time handling UPS pressure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:53:47 PM
History would disagree with the coach of the year going to the coach with the best regualr season record.  In 2004 UPS was 15-1, Bridgeland was COY.  2005 UPS was 15-1 and it went to Sundquist.  2006 UPS was 14-2 and that year I think it went to Hayford (I could be wrong).  But maybe this can be explained because Bridgeland was not well liked throughout the league.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:57:03 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 04:45:34 PM
NWhoops -- I can't explain why anything is written the way it is on the NWC site -- that's why I was confused in the first place!  I'm just going with what's written.
Choose which one you want to read and quote which one helps make your case, I guess.

And Coach Hayford will get it because his team did win the reg. season and will at least tie for best record over the entire conf. schedule.  W/L isn't a lock, but climbing positions from preseason poll is very much looked at.  Coach James is a very good coach and WIL will be near the very top next year.  He should get some well deserved votes.  WIL was picked to finish 6th, WW 3rd.

POTY is Symes.  Foster could have taken it but will most likely next year, hands down.  He is the most talented UPS player I have seen in 8 years.  Under a different system, he might average 30.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 06:34:04 AM
I have no answers...that was not UPS basketball. I don't know who showed up on the floor
Will UPS or the UPS imposters be wearing dresses again tonight?


Ahhhh...I am not going to take that bait.  The UPS men will be there in full force, its too big of a game.  And its senior night.  And I feel that UPS matches up very well against Willamette.  Their young guards have a tough time handling UPS pressure.
They better show up.  It would be a long off season if they lose.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 05:01:35 PM
http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/basketball_men/NorthwestConferenceHistory.pdf

Northwest Conference Men's Basketball History
Year Champion             Player of the Year                    Coach of the Year
2007 Whitworth/L&C     Bryan Williams, Whitworth       Jim Hayford, Whitworth
2006 Puget Sound        Lance Pecht, Whitworth           Eric Bridgeland, Puget Sound
2005 Puget Sound        Mark Gayman, George Fox         Mark Sundquist, George Fox
2004 Puget Sound     Matt Glynn, Puget Sound             Eric Bridgeland, Puget Sound
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 05:18:02 PM

And I feel that UPS matches up very well against Willamette.  Their young guards have a tough time handling UPS pressure.
[/quote]

The only time UPS has seen our "young guards" this season was when they played in Salem and WU only had 8 players to UPS's 15!  The Bearcats were still rearranging positions to replace Mansfield & another guy.  They're both back and the other players stepped up in their absence.  It definitely will be a game and WU has more to lose.   

Wish I could be there!  Last time I saw WU play at UPS it was a triple OT where UPS finished off our point guard (Erickson) at the beginning and still  UPS  only won by 3!

I'll be at the Linfield/LC game cheering for Linfield.  So -- tonight for me -- It's GO CATS!!

Back to the COTY thing -- in 2005 Sundquist was COTY because his team finally made the playoffs after years of being bottom feeders!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 05:37:02 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 05:01:35 PM
http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/basketball_men/NorthwestConferenceHistory.pdf

Northwest Conference Men's Basketball History
Year Champion             Player of the Year                    Coach of the Year
2007 Whitworth/L&C     Bryan Williams, Whitworth       Jim Hayford, Whitworth
2006 Puget Sound        Lance Pecht, Whitworth           Eric Bridgeland, Puget Sound
2005 Puget Sound        Mark Gayman, George Fox         Mark Sundquist, George Fox
2004 Puget Sound     Matt Glynn, Puget Sound             Eric Bridgeland, Puget Sound

Thanks for looking that up NWHoops...thats what I get for trying to go from my memory :)

So I had it backwards...the UPS players should have gotten POY especially since they were 3 time league champs.  Not taking anything away from Pecht and Gayman...but McVey was more then deserving to get it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 05:39:48 PM
QuoteBack to the COTY thing -- in 2005 Sundquist was COTY because his team finally made the playoffs after years of being bottom feeders!!

Actually the NWC tourney didn't comeback until the following year.  (When UPS beat WW :) sorry NWHoops I had to throw that in...it makes me feel better about myself, lol)   G Fox had a good year, but they were left holding the bag while UPS made it to the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 23, 2008, 07:06:27 PM
So is this correct?
From the LC website:

After the Pioneers won last night 87-67 over the UPS Loggers in Tacoma and Willamette lost at Pacific, the Pioneers moved into a third-place tie. With the final interpretation of the tiebreakers issues at 3pm on Saturday by the NWC commissioner, the Pioneers must win at Linfield and Willamette must lose at Puget Sound in order for the Pioneers to make the playoffs. If Willamette wins, it would create a three-way tie for third place between L&C, Willamette, and UPS. According to the Commissioner:


In the case of this three-way tie, the head to head results are as follows:
Willamette - 3-1
Puget Sound - 2-2
Lewis & Clark - 1-3

Therefore, Willamette will be the #2 seed and UPS the #3 seed should this situation arise.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 07:13:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 05:39:48 PM
QuoteBack to the COTY thing -- in 2005 Sundquist was COTY because his team finally made the playoffs after years of being bottom feeders!!

Actually the NWC tourney didn't comeback until the following year.  (When UPS beat WW :) sorry NWHoops I had to throw that in...it makes me feel better about myself, lol)   G Fox had a good year, but they were left holding the bag while UPS made it to the Sweet 16.

The thing I quoted from the conference site said it was adopted Spring 2004.  I think it was back to the 3 team playoff by 2005 -- could be wrong, have been about more important things!

So, does anyone understand how Pacific or Linfield fit into this crazy puzzle?  The whole thing seems based on if we win & someone else loses.  Very confusing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 07:16:20 PM
Actually if Willamette wins and LC wins, it creates a 3 way tie for 2nd place.  The tiebreaker formula gives 2nd to WIL and 3rd to UPS -- LC out!  That's the only scenario that I really get.  The confusing one is if UPS wins and LC loses to Linfield.  Then what?  Who's on third?   :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 07:44:06 PM
Actually Who's on 1st. 

The rules for the conference tournament may have been ratified in Spring 2004 but they weren't put into effect until Spring 2006
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2008, 08:06:16 PM
Very Funny, Logs.   But we know Whitworth's on 1st, in spite of the comic routine!

You're probably right about the other one.  But really, don't the coaches vote for COTY?  I guess they control that regardless of W/L.

Once again, Go Cats!  (Bearcats & WIldcats -- at least for tonight!)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 08:27:52 PM
Being thats it's senior night for UPS, I wanted to recognize and congratulate the seniors Jeff Walker, Taylor Marsh, and Weston Wood.

Marsh has been a part of 2 NWC Championship Teams going 50-13 in NWC play, and advancing to the Sweet 16 and the Elite 8.

Walker and Wood were part of the Logger's 3 straight NWC crowns, participating as red shirts in 2004.  Their record was 65-14 in NWC play, and advancing to the Sweet 16 twice and the Elite 8.

Congratulations on all of your accomplishments, you guys have represented UPS well!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 08:54:28 PM
Good Luck tonight Logs!  Go claim your spot!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 01:06:05 AM
Here is the tiebreaker info for NWC 2008 Basketball.

Currently looking like a 4 way tie for 3rd as of 9:55 pm.

In case of a 4 way tie by WU, LC, PAC and LIN in the regular-season Conference standing affecting
post-season advancement, tie shall be broken by:

1. Head-to-Head competition in conference games only

LC 3-3, PAC 2-4, WIL 4-2, LIN 3-3...WIL gets 3rd spot.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 01:31:25 AM
I am just surprised and disappointed PLU didn't win both of their games vs UPS.  It would have meant a 6 way tie for 2nd!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 01:48:31 AM
LIN coach is on radio saying he's in...I think he's wrong.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 01:51:47 AM
Dang..That sucks...he just got the news live that WIL gets it.  OUCH
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2008, 02:27:36 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2008, 04:41:20 PM
bbaddict please explain why the NWC conference would call LC and WW co-champs this year in preseason if those changes were adopted in 2004?

Please accept the informed opinion that the regular season DOES matter.

I'm totally ready to accept that the regular season DOES matter -- that's why Willamette is in the #3 spot and will play UPS again on Thursday.   You are so right!!

Thank you. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 24, 2008, 02:54:12 AM
A fitting end to LC's season. After Dr. Jekyl dominated against UPS last night Mr. Hyde made 2 of 14 threes in the first half and not much better in the second. Also could not make a free throw and it seemed as though every bounce went Linfield's way. We would be down eight and Tillery would lay out and get a steal then toss it back right to a Linfield player. Or we would get a block and the ball would bounce off someone and then they would hit a three. The refs were horrible. Called it like a pee wee league game, both ways. A total of 55 free throws in the second half is way too many. Anyway, add all those together and it means season over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2008, 02:59:50 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:48:17 PM
It is all about the National Tourney but...being regualr season champ gives that team a huge advantage towards getting the AQ.

Here in the NCAA we don't have regional tournaments, so we don't call the NCAA Tournament the "National Tournament." When you say national tournament you sound like you're still in the NAIA. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 10:16:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2008, 02:59:50 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:48:17 PM
It is all about the National Tourney but...being regualr season champ gives that team a huge advantage towards getting the AQ.

Here in the NCAA we don't have regional tournaments, so we don't call the NCAA Tournament the "National Tournament." When you say national tournament you sound like you're still in the NAIA. :)
Don't pck on Logshow.  Its hard enough that his team is tumbling like a tumbleweed in a NATIONAL and REGIONAL way.  At least they did win on Senior night in dramatic fashion.  Their award for that is a redo next Thu. at home vs Wilamette.  4 OT's?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 01:18:21 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 01:31:25 AM
I am just surprised and disappointed PLU didn't win both of their games vs UPS.  It would have meant a 6 way tie for 2nd!!

That would have been just ridiculous :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 01:21:53 PM
Okay sorry, from now on I will refer to it as the NCAA tournament :)

Thanks for defending me NWHoops...I think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 01:29:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 10:16:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2008, 02:59:50 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 23, 2008, 04:48:17 PM
It is all about the National Tourney but...being regualr season champ gives that team a huge advantage towards getting the AQ.

Here in the NCAA we don't have regional tournaments, so we don't call the NCAA Tournament the "National Tournament." When you say national tournament you sound like you're still in the NAIA. :)
Don't pck on Logshow.  Its hard enough that his team is tumbling like a tumbleweed in a NATIONAL and REGIONAL way.  At least they did win on Senior night in dramatic fashion.  Their award for that is a redo next Thu. at home vs Wilamette.  4 OT's?

Well I would much rather play Willamette again then LC!  UPS has had double and a triple overtime games against Willamette the past two year at home :-\.  It was a good game but UPS should have won going away.  UPS was up by 11 with about 4 mins to go.  It was missed FT's and turnovers from the PG and all of a sudden its a tie game.  And then to top it off we have the chance to take the final shot and we shout it with 10 seconds left and Willamette gets the ball with 6 seconds and a chance to win.  Not impressive to say the least.  Luckily we pulled it out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 01:38:02 PM
To beat Willamette next time by a more comfortable margin next Thursday, UPS needs to figure out the defense.  Willamette shot 69% in the second half and 60% for the game...and almost all of their shots were easy lay-ups.  Compound that with giving up 13 offensive rebounds...that's a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 02:08:59 PM
Yes I was defending you LogShow.  Coleman was scraping the bucket with the needless needle.  He has better things to do like Top 25 updates and pool C inquiries.

I am also glad to see LC out.  Fickle and dangerous.  WIL or UPS will offer WW a more predictable opponent.  Perhaps we get to talk and write about the whole "win 3x scenario" next Friday.  UPS must win and somehow, I think they will manage to lose.  WIL can be very effective when they are disciplined.  UPS is streaky.  Whichever squad does their style 51% of the time will win.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 02:18:28 PM
Pio are you gonna hang around now that your team is done?  It has been nice to get your thoughts, even if they are about how LC finished 15-9.  No one saw that record coming.  Tough season to endure as a fan.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 04:16:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 02:18:28 PM
Pio are you gonna hang around now that your team is done?  It has been nice to get your thoughts, even if they are about how LC finished 15-9.  No one saw that record coming.  Tough season to endure as a fan.

I agree, Pio20 I hope you stick around the board.  I have enjoyed your thoughts and insight.  LC had a tough season...a roller coaster ride for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 24, 2008, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 04:16:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 02:18:28 PM
Pio are you gonna hang around now that your team is done?  It has been nice to get your thoughts, even if they are about how LC finished 15-9.  No one saw that record coming.  Tough season to endure as a fan.

I agree, Pio20 I hope you stick around the board.  I have enjoyed your thoughts and insight.  LC had a tough season...a roller coaster ride for sure.

Oh yeah I'll be here. It was definitely a tough season to endure and it's obviously more fun to contribute to the boards when your team is playing better but I still enjoy NWC basketball as a whole and the Pios will be back next year and they should be decent if Kollasch, Berggren, and Papenfuss stay.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 24, 2008, 08:59:34 PM
Just interested Pio20 on why you say "if" in regards to those LC guys returning?  Is their return in question?  And what about Allen?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 10:28:51 PM
Just thought I would throw up the final conference standings:

WW 12-4
UPS 11-5
LC 9-7
Wil 9-7
Lin 9-7
Pac 9-7
PLU 7-9
Fox 5-11
Whit 1-15
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 24, 2008, 10:50:02 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 24, 2008, 08:59:34 PM
Just interested Pio20 on why you say "if" in regards to those LC guys returning?  Is their return in question?  And what about Allen?

Yeah I know Berrgren and Kollasch are considering transferring. Papenfuss I think will stay. Allen was definitely unhappy with his PT this year but I think he will get a lot more next year since Robinowitz and Toboni will be gone. I think if one stays they all do. Also, if Gaillard leaves it could cause some exodus. Not many of the guys like Dinari. I just hope Papenfuss stays because without we will definitely turn back into a 7-9 team that does literally nothing but shoot threes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2008, 11:21:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 24, 2008, 10:50:02 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 24, 2008, 08:59:34 PM
Just interested Pio20 on why you say "if" in regards to those LC guys returning?  Is their return in question?  And what about Allen?

Yeah I know Berrgren and Kollasch are considering transferring. Papenfuss I think will stay. Allen was definitely unhappy with his PT this year but I think he will get a lot more next year since Robinowitz and Toboni will be gone. I think if one stays they all do. Also, if Gaillard leaves it could cause some exodus. Not many of the guys like Dinari. I just hope Papenfuss stays because without we will definitely turn back into a 7-9 team that does literally nothing but shoot threes.

Sounds like LC will be a team to keep an eye on during the off season.
On other notes:  Bridgeland will not take over at Pepperdine.  http://www.pepperdinesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=90183&SPID=10851&DB_OEM_ID=18500&ATCLID=1392807
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 24, 2008, 11:24:48 PM
Thanks Pio20, that's some juicy inside info, why is it that they dont like bigfella and what are the players reasons for considering transfering?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 11:40:22 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 24, 2008, 10:50:02 PM
Quote from: NWCer on February 24, 2008, 08:59:34 PM
Just interested Pio20 on why you say "if" in regards to those LC guys returning?  Is their return in question?  And what about Allen?

Yeah I know Berrgren and Kollasch are considering transferring. Papenfuss I think will stay. Allen was definitely unhappy with his PT this year but I think he will get a lot more next year since Robinowitz and Toboni will be gone. I think if one stays they all do. Also, if Gaillard leaves it could cause some exodus. Not many of the guys like Dinari. I just hope Papenfuss stays because without we will definitely turn back into a 7-9 team that does literally nothing but shoot threes.

That's interesting that they are considering transfer.  Aren't all of them Jrs?  That would only give them one year of eligibility...that doesn't seem worth it.

Living and Dying by the 3 = Great Risk & Great Reward
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2008, 12:11:46 AM
I am afraid PIO could probably fill 3 pages with LC hoop drama from 2008.  So ABOUT the games this weekend, the win 3x hurdle is for WIL vs UPS as well as if UPS gets tp play WW on Sat.

UPS swept WIL (barely).  I think WIL wanted to avenge that home loss badly just as they did by winning at WW.  Hosting the Thu game could have been huge, but more so UPS would have been way back on their heels after losing 3 straight.  I doubt UPS will show up Thu. feeling over confident.

I think the key to the game is 3 pt shooting and specifically Marsh, the catch and shoot kid.  Has he ever shot off the dribble?  He had a real good first half Sat.  Had he not started off well, more pressure shifts to A. Williams.  Williams is a second half performer and if POTY was based only on second half stats he might be unanimous.  Foster is streaky from 3 but then Wood, Boyce and even Krauel can connect when needed.  UPS hit 54% from 3 Sat.  That's 20% better than they had been shooting in Conf. entering Sats game.  So back to Marsh, he hits early, his teammates will not feel pressure to pick him up and UPS most likely gets their tempo game as well.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2008, 01:03:03 AM
Hoops were you at the game yesterday?  Also, your karma gets bumped and you question me...now it gets rasied and I get no thanks? :D :)

I think the last thing UPS is feeling is overconfident
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 25, 2008, 02:11:49 AM
Kollasch is a sophomore. Berrgren is a junior. You have to keep in mind we are graduating 7 seniors, all of whom were pretty tight-knit off the court. Take them away and you leave Kollasch and Bergrren with a program that has little else to build off of. In the rarefied liberal air of LC its not easy to be a basketball player. You stick out and you stay together, so when you start to lose people you maybe start to question if you want to be here. In addition, this was supposed to be "the year." It didn't happen and everyone is disappointed. Some of the players don't like Dinari because he is very two-faced. As a recruiter he seems extremely inviting and enthusiastic but then once you get here you see that he is anything but. He has many facades, and players need to know what their coach actually stands for instead of always questioning him. He is by no means a bad guy, but he can come across as wonderful one minute and hate you the next. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2008, 02:24:02 AM
I would say that can be common for some coaches.  They will act like your best friend and do anything to get you to come to their school...but once you step on campus all bets are off
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2008, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 25, 2008, 01:03:03 AM
Hoops were you at the game yesterday?  Also, your karma gets bumped and you question me...now it gets rasied and I get no thanks? :D :)

I think the last thing UPS is feeling is overconfident
No I decided to pass.  I am expecting to be there this week at both games.  I think not being overconfident should help UPS play more urgently.  That whole big bad UPS routine doesn't work like it once did.  Being ranked this year probably hurt them.  Now that they know they aren't THAT good, they might just play like they know they need to earn it.  Tough game Thu.  I am picking UPS to lose to a very disciplined and methodical Wilamette offense and 1 shot defense but not by much.  Wil might be up 12-15 with 4 minutes and UPS will somehow have a shot to win or tie...but miss.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2008, 08:48:51 PM
Yeah I am not really sure what UPS's deal was this year, maybe it was some overconfidence and expecting to just show up and the other team will let them win.  I think UPS will be ready to go and play much better then they did this past weekend.  The game on Saturday could have been a 20 point win for the Logs.  I thought UPS had the game in the bag...but then they let Willamette back in instead of slamming the door shut.  I do think it will be a tough competitive game though, but it will be too much for Willamette and UPS will come out on top, earning the right to play in Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 25, 2008, 09:28:44 PM
Just released, congrats to all.  Close race for POY.

However, let the debating begin, I'll start with the omission of VanDomelen:

2007-08 All-NWC Men's Basketball Team

Coach of the Year: Jim Hayford, Whitworth
Player of the Year: Ryan Symes, Whitworth

First Team All-Northwest Conference:
Ryan Symes - Whitworth (F, 6-5, Sr./Sr., Palo Alto, Calif. - San Joaquin Delta JC) 75 (4)
Jason Foster - Puget Sound (F, 6-7, Jr./Jr., Tacoma, Wash. - Foss) 72 (1)
Colin Willemsen - Whitworth (F, 6-5, Sr./Sr., Moraga, Calif. - Diablo Valley JC) 54 (2)
Antwan Williams - Puget Sound (G, 6-0, Jr./Jr., Portland, Ore. - Madison) 50 (1)
Garold Howe - Pacific (F, 6-6, Jr./Jr., Salem, Ore. - Chemeketa CC) 39
Brent Satern - George Fox (PG, 5-10, Sr./Sr., Silverton, Ore. - Silverton) 37

Second Team All-Northwest Conference:
Chris Faidley - Whitman (G, 6-2, Jr., Shoreline, Wash. - King's) 30 (1)
Kyler McClary - Willamette (P, 6-5, Jr./Jr., Hillsboro, Ore. – Glencoe) 29
Michael Smith - Willamette (W, 6-2, Sr./Sr., Talent, Ore. – Phoenix) 25
Scott McDaniels - Pacific Lutheran (P, 6-6, Sr./Sr., Sammamish, Wash.- Eastlake) 24
K.C. Wiser - Linfield (C, 6-8, Fr./Fr., Tigard, Ore. – Tigard) 14

Honorable Mention All-Northwest Conference:
Josh Dressler - Pacific Lutheran (W, 6-2, Jr./Jr., Vancouver, Wash.- Portland Lutheran) 13
Gene Rivera - Lewis & Clark (F/G, 6-4, Sr., Kahului, Hawaii – Butte Coll.) 12
Thomas Tillery - Lewis & Clark (PG, 6-1, Sr., Portland, Ore. – Benson) 12
Steve Taylor - Linfield (PG, 6-0, Sr./Sr., Salem, Ore. - South Salem) 4
Robert Krauel - Puget Sound (F, 6-4, Jr./Jr., Phoenix, Ariz. - North Canyon) 4
Ross Nakamura - Whitworth (G, 6-1, Jr./Jr., Moraga, Calif. - Diablo Valley JC) 1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 25, 2008, 10:52:13 PM
And don't mistake me for a Pio fan, and they may feel like they had a dissapointing year, but to be the only team not represented on first or second team is surprising. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 25, 2008, 11:24:09 PM
What's the Diablo Valley Community College, CA,  tie with Whitworth?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on February 25, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I think they could've put Dressler higher, the first team is right on the money though. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 25, 2008, 11:59:37 PM
I agree about 1st team being right on the money, POY, as well as coach of the year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:27:55 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 25, 2008, 11:24:09 PM
What's the Diablo Valley Community College, CA,  tie with Whitworth?
Coach Hayford
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 12:36:38 AM
Can't have a better tie than that
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:38:00 AM
Congrats to the WW men's basketball team once again for the great season.  Pirate fans and supporters are proud to see Coach Hayford be awarded by his peers to a 2nd straight season as NW Conference Coach of the Year and our 3rd straight POTY in Ryan Symes.  Defending our conference title after being picked to finish 3rd is a remarkable achievement by the coach and Symes dutifully led an inexperienced and young group of players with terrific skill and determination.  Go Bucs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:51:02 AM
It would also appear as though Hayford has tied James and Gaillard as active 3 time COTY recipients and only trails Whitworth's Warren Friedrichs, a 4 time winner.  Hayford and Friedrichs are the only 2 back to back winners since the conf. has been naming the award.

Who ties Friedrichs first?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 26, 2008, 12:54:49 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 25, 2008, 10:52:13 PM
And don't mistake me for a Pio fan, and they may feel like they had a dissapointing year, but to be the only team not represented on first or second team is surprising. 

Call me a Pio fan, and all I can say is wow. By no means did we have anyone who dominated for us, such as Faidley being Whitman's team. So maybe no first team material, but no second teamers is suprising. Papenfuss led the league in field goal percentage. Rivera led in blocks. Hmm...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:58:18 AM
Ryan Symes - Whitworth (F, 6-5, Sr./Sr., Palo Alto, Calif. - San Joaquin Delta JC) 75 (4)
Jason Foster - Puget Sound (F, 6-7, Jr./Jr., Tacoma, Wash. - Foss) 72 (1)

That's a pretty close finish for POTY.  Symes teammate, Colin Willemsen, actually got more 1st place votes than Foster (2) with A Williams getting the other top vote.  I am thinking PLU gave him that.

Either way would have made sense but I am glad to see my WW guy get it, duh, and he is a senior.  Foster, if he improves, should dominate next year and perhaps be All American.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 01:07:38 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 26, 2008, 12:54:49 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 25, 2008, 10:52:13 PM
And don't mistake me for a Pio fan, and they may feel like they had a dissapointing year, but to be the only team not represented on first or second team is surprising. 

Call me a Pio fan, and all I can say is wow. By no means did we have anyone who dominated for us, such as Faidley being Whitman's team. So maybe no first team material, but no second teamers is suprising. Papenfuss led the league in field goal percentage. Rivera led in blocks. Hmm...
Tillery played like the 3rd or 4th best PG in the league and he was LC's best player in my opinion.  It is tough to get into those 1st and 2nd teams this year when so many teams had players making substantial contributions.

Howe and Willemsen stepped up big and the Willamette guys Mclary and Smith were tough EVERY game.  Add Wiser and there just isn't any spots left for the 2 LC seniors.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 01:18:18 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on February 25, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I think they could've put Dressler higher, the first team is right on the money though. 
I think he is fine where he is.  Dressler was above average but other than scoring, he didn't impress me.  Sorry.  Van Domelen should not have been left off entirely, he was on the 3rd place team for gosh sakes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:34:57 AM
VanDomelen not making even honorable mention means that Pacific joins the two bottom teams, Fox and Whitman, as only having one representative.  Not the end of the world, but doesn't seem right.  UPS and Whitworth deserve the 3 each, all the other 3rd place teams that were tied with my Boxers got 2 each, and even 7th place PLU got 2.  Oh well, VanDomelen is a hell of a player, and I guess he doesn't need to be on the team to justify that, but it would have been nice.

I'm obviously biased, I saw every home Pacific game except the Linfield game, but I did head over to watch them at Linfield, and the other road game I saw was at Lewis and Clark.  Nothing against the 17 who made the list, but I don't believe there are 17 better players in the league than VanDomelen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:40:55 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on February 25, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I think they could've put Dressler higher, the first team is right on the money though. 

Even with Satern?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:41:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:27:55 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 25, 2008, 11:24:09 PM
What's the Diablo Valley Community College, CA,  tie with Whitworth?
Coach Hayford

Like he used to coach there?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:40:55 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on February 25, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I think they could've put Dressler higher, the first team is right on the money though. 

Even with Satern?
I think so Logshow.  Who would you have put in that last first team slot?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:44:04 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:41:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:27:55 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 25, 2008, 11:24:09 PM
What's the Diablo Valley Community College, CA,  tie with Whitworth?
Coach Hayford

Like he used to coach there?

Good question, whatever the connection is it's working big time for him, seems to have one at Delta as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:46:51 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:38:00 AM
Congrats to the WW men's basketball team once again for the great season.  Pirate fans and supporters are proud to see Coach Hayford be awarded by his peers to a 2nd straight season as NW Conference Coach of the Year and our 3rd straight POTY in Ryan Symes.  Defending our conference title after being picked to finish 3rd is a remarkable achievement by the coach and Symes dutifully led an inexperienced and young group of players with terrific skill and determination.  Go Bucs!

Hayford and WW had a few things going for him.  Two very dependable seniors who are really good night in and night out (Symes and Williamson).  A great and sturdy PG.  I really liked Naknamura's game, nothing flashy, but very very effective.   A very short rotation.  WW only played 6.5 guys this year.  Having your 3 best players be able to play 40mins a night, is pretty impressive.  They did very well at avoiding foul trouble.  Hats off to WW for what they accomplished.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 01:50:58 AM
Congrats to Hayford, Symes and the rest.  Well-earned stuff.

Regarding UPS and Willamette, I think UPS will make it three straight.  Listened to the game and it sounded like Willamette had the same kind of success against UPS as against Whitworth - the guards drive, draw the defense and dish to the big men for easy baskets.  Sounded like one easy basket after another and the shooting percentage showed.

UPS should be able to clean that up in a second straight meeting.  Homecourt and overall talent will win out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:52:39 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:40:55 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on February 25, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I think they could've put Dressler higher, the first team is right on the money though. 

Even with Satern?
I think so Logshow.  Who would you have put in that last first team slot?

I don't really know...I guess I wouldn't put anyone who is behind him in front.  He is a very good player, but it seems tough to put him or Faidley on the 1st team because their teams struggled so much.  I guess he probably deserved 1st team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 01:54:09 AM
As far as Saturday's potential game, I think the home court and extra rest will work heavily in the Pirates' favor.  What would be even better is if the big kid is back in the middle.  

If the Bucs are going to do anything past Saturday, they will definitely need him back.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:54:14 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 01:50:58 AM
Congrats to Hayford, Symes and the rest.  Well-earned stuff.

Regarding UPS and Willamette, I think UPS will make it three straight.  Listened to the game and it sounded like Willamette had the same kind of success against UPS as against Whitworth - the guards drive, draw the defense and dish to the big men for easy baskets.  Sounded like one easy basket after another and the shooting percentage showed.

UPS should be able to clean that up in a second straight meeting.  Homecourt and overall talent will win out.


I really hope so. UPS needs to figure their D out.  It was a very frustrating game to watch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 01:55:33 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:44:04 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:41:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:27:55 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 25, 2008, 11:24:09 PM
What's the Diablo Valley Community College, CA,  tie with Whitworth?
Coach Hayford

Like he used to coach there?
no

Good question, whatever the connection is it's working big time for him, seems to have one at Delta as well.
You guys are catching on quick.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:55:59 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 01:54:09 AM
As far as Saturday's potential game, I think the home court and extra rest will work heavily in the Pirates' favor.  What would be even better is if the big kid is back in the middle.  

If the Bucs are going to do anything past Saturday, they will definitely need him back.

I think it is going to be a super tight game.  With no team really pulling ahead.  Do you think WW can make it 3 straight.  I think its tough with two teams that talented for either team to win 3 in a row.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:57:02 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 01:55:33 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:44:04 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:41:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:27:55 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 25, 2008, 11:24:09 PM
What's the Diablo Valley Community College, CA,  tie with Whitworth?
Coach Hayford

Like he used to coach there?
no

Good question, whatever the connection is it's working big time for him, seems to have one at Delta as well.
You guys are catching on quick.

I am often complimented on my analitical problem solving skills ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 01:58:00 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:52:39 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:40:55 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on February 25, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I think they could've put Dressler higher, the first team is right on the money though. 

Even with Satern?
I think so Logshow.  Who would you have put in that last first team slot?

I don't really know...I guess I wouldn't put anyone who is behind him in front.  He is a very good player, but it seems tough to put him or Faidley on the 1st team because their teams struggled so much.  I guess he probably deserved 1st team.
Satern didn't need to be on and why 6 spots?  POTY and 5?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:59:24 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 12:58:18 AM
Ryan Symes - Whitworth (F, 6-5, Sr./Sr., Palo Alto, Calif. - San Joaquin Delta JC) 75 (4)
Jason Foster - Puget Sound (F, 6-7, Jr./Jr., Tacoma, Wash. - Foss) 72 (1)

That's a pretty close finish for POTY.  Symes teammate, Colin Willemsen, actually got more 1st place votes than Foster (2) with A Williams getting the other top vote.  I am thinking PLU gave him that.

Either way would have made sense but I am glad to see my WW guy get it, duh, and he is a senior.  Foster, if he improves, should dominate next year and perhaps be All American.

Hoops this question might further your opinion of my sharpness, but the number in parentheses is the number of first place votes right?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:00:00 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:57:02 AM
I am often complimented on my analitical problem solving skills ;)
not your spelling skills

and yes to the ()
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:00:13 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 01:58:00 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:52:39 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 26, 2008, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:40:55 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on February 25, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I think they could've put Dressler higher, the first team is right on the money though. 

Even with Satern?
I think so Logshow.  Who would you have put in that last first team slot?

I don't really know...I guess I wouldn't put anyone who is behind him in front.  He is a very good player, but it seems tough to put him or Faidley on the 1st team because their teams struggled so much.  I guess he probably deserved 1st team.
Satern didn't need to be on and why 6 spots?  POTY and 5?

Yeah I believe thats how most conferences do it.  It allows for more kids to be recognized
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:01:28 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:00:00 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 01:57:02 AM
I am often complimented on my analitical problem solving skills ;)
not your spelling skills

and yes to the ()

Me fail english?  Thats unpossible!


By the way...I liked how you used () instead of trying to spell the word
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 02:02:26 AM
Logshow -

I think the extra rest and homecourt will outweigh the 3x issue.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 01:54:09 AM
As far as Saturday's potential game, I think the home court and extra rest will work heavily in the Pirates' favor.  What would be even better is if the big kid is back in the middle.  

If the Bucs are going to do anything past Saturday, they will definitely need him back.

Perhaps.  I wish Montgomery could have gotten more PT.  We need him next year to grab 12+ Rebs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:03:51 AM
QuoteChris Faidley - Whitman (G, 6-2, Jr., Shoreline, Wash. - King's) 30 (1)

So this is saying that Faidley got a first place vote for POY ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 02:05:25 AM
Must've been from one of the coaches he went for 30+ against  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:06:19 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 02:02:26 AM
Logshow -

I think the extra rest and homecourt will outweigh the 3x issue.
I like homecourt...rest? not so much
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:03:51 AM
QuoteChris Faidley - Whitman (G, 6-2, Jr., Shoreline, Wash. - King’s) 30 (1)

So this is saying that Faidley got a first place vote for POY ???
Apparently
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:06:28 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 01:54:09 AM
As far as Saturday's potential game, I think the home court and extra rest will work heavily in the Pirates' favor.  What would be even better is if the big kid is back in the middle.  

If the Bucs are going to do anything past Saturday, they will definitely need him back.

Perhaps.  I wish Montgomery could have gotten more PT.  We need him next year to grab 12+ Rebs.

Is the cupboard going to be bare next year?  I know that 3 of the starting 5 will be back and Montgomery.  But losing Williamson and Symes could be a devastating blow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:06:53 AM
rest = rusty?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:10:43 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 02:05:25 AM
Must've been from one of the coaches he went for 30+ against  ;)
An odd vote for sure.  Someone doesn't like UPS AND WW.  
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:06:28 AM
Is the cupboard going to be bare next year?  I know that 3 of the starting 5 will be back and Montgomery.  But losing Williamson and Symes could be a devastating blow.
Heard that last year about our backcourt.  Hmm, DVC have any good  3's or 4's?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:11:46 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:06:53 AM
rest = rusty?
Could mean that, could mean nice tan.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:16:07 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:10:43 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 02:05:25 AM
Must've been from one of the coaches he went for 30+ against  ;)
An odd vote for sure.  Someone doesn't like UPS AND WW.  
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:06:28 AM
Is the cupboard going to be bare next year?  I know that 3 of the starting 5 will be back and Montgomery.  But losing Williamson and Symes could be a devastating blow.
Heard that last year about our backcourt.  Hmm, DVC have any good  3's or 4's?

True!  But I think Nakamura has filled in more then admirably for B Williams.  Also I think Williamson, will really be missed next year, as will Symes.  But Williamson's true effect on the team may not truely be seen till he is gone.  I won't be sad to not see him go up against the Loggers next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:16:52 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:11:46 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:06:53 AM
rest = rusty?
Could mean that, could mean nice tan.

Lol...they aren't going to Cabo for the week as a reward are they?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 02:20:53 AM
I think Riley could develop into a real impact player for the Pirates.  His size (6-5) is rare for a DIII guard.  He can be a devastating shooter.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:24:42 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 26, 2008, 02:20:53 AM
I think Riley could develop into a real impact player for the Pirates.  His size (6-5) is rare for a DIII guard.  He can be a devastating shooter.

I agree.  It will be interesting to see if he develops toughness and the ability to take the ball to the hoop.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 09:06:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:16:07 AM
True!  But I think Nakamura has filled in more then admirably for B Williams.  Also I think Williamson, will really be missed next year, as will Symes.  But Williamson's true effect on the team may not truely be seen till he is gone.  I won't be sad to not see him go up against the Loggers next year.
He is a special "tweener" type player with very good skills.  He will be missed but remember, he filled in for WW when George Tucker graduated (another DVC player) and Symes for Pecht.  Hayford is good at knowing what he HAS to replace to remain competitive.  Riley will be a very special player for WW when his career is over.  At 6'5" he can shoot over alot of players in this league.  As for taking it to the basket, I can think of alot of very successful shooting and I mean shooting guards in the NWC over the past 10 years.  When you have a player on the perimeter that the other team must constantly keep someone near, you really can run some nice matchup plays vs man to man defense.

WW will reload with the normal mix of some solid JC transfers and a couple of real good underclassman.  Winning Conference titles brings em all the way to Spokane much easier though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 09:08:00 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:16:52 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2008, 02:11:46 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:06:53 AM
rest = rusty?
Could mean that, could mean nice tan.

Lol...they aren't going to Cabo for the week as a reward are they?
Against NCAA rules I suspect.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 27, 2008, 12:56:00 AM
Two days till gameday, hope the Loggers are getting ready!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 27, 2008, 11:26:20 PM
Addict aren't you a Bearcats fan?  I am suprised I haven't heard more from you...its all most game time!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 27, 2008, 11:27:04 PM
...And what exactly is a bearcat?  I am thinking its a hybrid...like a liger
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on February 27, 2008, 11:48:27 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 27, 2008, 11:27:04 PM
...And what exactly is a bearcat?  I am thinking its a hybrid...like a liger
A Bearcat is another name for a Binturong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binturong).
The Willamette Binturongs? Naw, keep Bearcats.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fa%2Fa7%2FBinturong_in_Overloon.jpg&hash=c8e82b578c2f37993dee57c3fc49e263f04e98fa)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 27, 2008, 11:58:19 PM
Oh he's a cute little guy...hey buddy, want a cookie?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2008, 12:38:02 AM
I think I saw a puudy cat.  He looks playful.  Want a logger?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:38:55 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2008, 12:38:02 AM
I think I saw a puudy cat.  He looks playful.  Want a logger?

Did you mean Lager?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:42:14 AM
I am feeling pretty good about UPS chances...as long as the Logs play some D. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 12:47:31 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 27, 2008, 11:26:20 PM
Addict aren't you a Bearcats fan?  I am suprised I haven't heard more from you...its all most game time!

I'm still here.  Most of the discussion was about All NWC team and POTY -- I don't think that stuff is very fair to most of the players.   Sure, a few get recognition, but mostly it makes a whole lot of them feel unappreciated!

Getting ready for the road trip to Tacoma -- this time the Bearcats WILL win!  I hear they're starting the game at 7:00 in case there's 4 overtimes!   :D

And -- a Bearcat is a rodent type creature!  Hey, I didn't pick the mascot -- I just cheer for the team.  But, you're one to talk -- Loggers??  And those awful chain saw sounds they make . . .

I'm thinking that Whitworth is wanting UPS to win because they know they can beat you!  UPS is the only contender team that didn't beat Whitworth this year!  And, NOW, it's our turn to beat UPS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 12:50:17 AM
And who keeps messing with my karma -- that's just not nice!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:50:53 AM
QuoteI'm thinking that Whitworth is wanting UPS to win because they know they can beat you!  UPS is the only contender team that didn't beat Whitworth this year!  And, NOW, it's our turn to beat UPS!


That just means UPS is due for a win against WW
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 12:53:24 AM
But first you must get past the terrible furry rodents!  Grrr
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:57:00 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 12:53:24 AM
But first you must get past the terrible furry rodents!  Grrr

okay...well time to fire up the chainsaw
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 12:59:35 AM
That's so brutal!  But, seriously, aren't you looking forward to a really great game?  Lots of running, tackling, pushing & shoving?  Crazy 3's -- high scores and all?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:02:51 AM
yes I am!  The Loggers definately like to "mix it up" by being physical.  Hopefully the ratcats won't shoot 40 FTs, and make 7 out of every 10 from the floor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:03:48 AM
I just want to know if we are going to OT?  The last two games WU and UPS have played in Tacoma went to double and triple OT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 01:11:44 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:03:48 AM
I just want to know if we are going to OT?  The last two games WU and UPS have played in Tacoma went to double and triple OT.

That's why they're starting the game at 7:00!  I thought I told you that already!  I heard that the Bearcats had a terrific shooting night on Saturday -- in fact, statistically, I was surprised that they lost.  I also heard that they had quite a number of fans there -- is that true?

I was at the Linfield/LC game -- LC just didn't get it together early enough.  Linfield looked better than I've ever seen them.  I think they thought they were playing for the #3 spot.  It was their senior night!  They kept giving us score updates of the UPS/WIL game and I kept hoping the Bearcats would win so it wouldn't matter who won the game I was watching!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:13:10 AM
From the sounds of it, I am guessing you will be at the game tomorrow?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 01:14:29 AM
So, my advice is to bring a lunch or snack money, because it's going to be a loooong game!  These two teams really like to duke it out for an extended time.

Yes, I'm going to be there!

Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:17:11 AM
UPS is going to win...so why can't they just do it in regualtion and save their fans the stress.  One more day to wait.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2008, 03:22:23 PM
This is my last post until tomorrow probably after the Bearcats have defeated the UPS Loggers!  I'm sorry I won't be available to respond to jabs and comments, but I have places to go, people to see and a long drive to the game!  Looking forward to a most exciting game possibly with multiple overtimes, although my fervent wish is that the Bearcat defense will do their job and get it done in regulation!

Thanks for the karma -- was that you Logs?  Anyway, at least I'm not below 0 anymore! (Or I wasn't when I wrote this!)  Have fun everyone!!   :D

Talk to you soon!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 05:25:18 PM
Sounds like a full day.  Can you squeeze in the Home Depot and Bed Bath and Beyond? Or isn't there enough time?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 28, 2008, 08:03:52 PM
Looking forward to listening to a good game tonight.

As a Pirate fan, I am rooting for...

A new Willamette-UPS record:  5 overtimes!  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 08:12:06 PM
Big big big game for the Logs tonight.  They will get it done in regulation in convincing fashion behind a large, loud boisterious crowd in the fieldhouse!  Ratcats beware...

Go get 'em Logs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 29, 2008, 02:02:20 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:17:11 AM
UPS is going to win...so why can't they just do it in regualtion and save their fans the stress.  One more day to wait.
Prayer answered.  Good win for Logs.  See ya Sat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 29, 2008, 02:20:40 AM
Well UPS pulled it out.  It wasn't all that pretty, but UPS managed to hang on.  The defense still seemed very sloppy, but can't complain, still got the win!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 29, 2008, 02:23:25 AM
Bring on WW! I am sure that they will be ready and waiting.  I don't think WW can slide by UPS for a 3rd consecutive time.  Its going to be a crazy game...the stage doesn't get any bigger.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 29, 2008, 01:44:52 PM
I think it is quite simple: WW can handle the UPS press. It is the same reason LC had UPS's number. In both WW wins over UPS, UPS has had more turnovers than WW. That is not the way UPS wins. The staple of UPS basketball is the full-court press. Also, in each one of their losses this year, UPS has scored 82 or below. UPS averages 94 a game. Guess who is first in scoring defense? Whitworth. The logical conclusion is the team that plays their game better wins. The past two times, that has been WW playing good D and not turning the ball over. If UPS has more turnovers than WW, they lose. If they don't, they win.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 01, 2008, 02:06:35 AM
Astute observations Pio20.  Whichever team asserts its will is likely to win the game.  Of course, this is basketball and any bounce can happen.

Heck, look at what happened down in the SCIAC tonight.  Wonder how those results will impact whoever wins in Spokane tomorrow night?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2008, 02:40:49 AM
HELLO ALL!  Looking forward to the game I just landed in Spokane and can't wait.  TO'S are a big factor, but I am gonna stick by my earlier thought and say shooting will decide this game.  UPS must be over 40% from 3 to win this game.  We will out rebound, have less turnovers and keep the score under 90, but even with that being a given, WW must defend the 3 and or UPS shoot poorly to win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 02, 2008, 12:31:09 AM
Not looking good for the Logs, down 22 with 5 to go.  Whitworth really got it together after the LC/Pac trip.  Congratulations and represent us well!!!

Pomona-Pitzer won the SCIAC tourney, so it would be sweet if the Pirates can meet up with them again, they smashed them earlier in the year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 02, 2008, 12:33:40 AM
Why not 4 teams in the NWC tourney?  3 of 9, when the SCIAC gets 4 of 8, and 1 of those 8 is Cal Tech, so it's really 4 of 7, those are great odds.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 02, 2008, 01:47:40 AM
Whitman was bad this year, but let's not say Cal Tech like............ They've won a conference game over the past 20 plus years..................
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2008, 02:17:14 AM
A real Monkey Stomp tonight...Whitworth wins 96-69.

QuoteWeren't the Patriots thinking the same thing about the Giants?
nt
C'mon Bob, the pats beat the giants by three points in the regular season...whitworth beat PP by 28.  Not even close to being an accurate comparison.  But I'm sure Whitworth will not overlook any team they face in the Tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2008, 03:29:18 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2008, 02:40:49 AM
TO'S are a big factor, but I am gonna stick by my earlier thought and say shooting will decide this game.  UPS must be over 40% from 3 to win this game.  We will out rebound, have less turnovers and keep the score under 90, but even with that being a given, WW must defend the 3 and or UPS shoot poorly to win.
Quoting myself here, but please forgive me.  WW just dismantled UPS in the second half.  Whatever Hayford fed or said to his players at halftime was HGH on steroids.  I never imagined I would be feeling good about this game with 5 minutes to play.  WW played very good perimeter defense and UPS shot poorly from 3  (1-16 FROM 3PT IN SECOND HALF).  Had UPS shot poorly in 1st half, WW would have been subbing starters alot earlier.  WW's interior D was also impressive holding Foster scoreless in the second half.  Mr. second half, A. Williams was the only one able to find ways to score as UPS's season ends. 

Pirates now get to travel and represent NWC as Regular AND Conference Champs in Tournament.  20 wins, POTY, COTY and a 5 game winning streak will make Whitworth a dangerous opponent to some team next week.  Nice win and go deep Bucs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2008, 03:19:56 PM
Well sounded like UPS just didn't have it last night, and WW played well.  Too bad...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2008, 03:23:12 PM
Congrats on the season UPS, looking forward to following next year.  And best of luck to Walker, Marsh, and Wood!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2008, 03:31:47 PM
All good luck to WW.  They definately earned the AQ.  Represent the NWC well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 12:35:19 AM
Thanks Logshow for the wishes.  It was a fun and wild year in Conference play.  Brackets at 9am.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 02:30:19 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 12:35:19 AM
Thanks Logshow for the wishes.  It was a fun and wild year in Conference play.  Brackets at 9am.

No prob.  I will pull for the Loggers and support them no matter what...but they got beat fair and square 3 times.  Hats off to WW for a great season.  Sure sounded like they played out of their minds last night. 

Hopefully they will get a good draw
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 02:32:35 AM
Originally I was thinking that WW would have to travel down to So Cal to face off against Oxy, but now I am not so sure.  I would guess that most likely they are going to head to Texas, Wisconsin, or maybe even have to travel farther and play a UAA school.

Looking forward to see the bracket tomorrow morning!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 12:32:29 PM
Whitworth hosts v Ponoma Pitzer on Thurs.

Winner goes to Occidental on Sat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on March 03, 2008, 01:27:22 PM
Well Whitworth certainly lucked out!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 12:32:29 PM
Whitworth hosts v Ponoma Pitzer on Thurs.

Winner goes to Occidental on Sat.

I am a bit confused.  This link http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/08/pairings.htm
has Whitworth with a bye then hosting the winner of Pomona/Oxy?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BucMan on March 03, 2008, 01:43:02 PM
The posting changed.  Originally, as they were building the brackets, they had WW at PP, with the winner going to Oxy.  When I went back to see the finalized bracket, it is now PP at Oxy, with the winner going to WW (who received a bye).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 03, 2008, 01:48:14 PM
There was a correction.

Whitworth hosts the winner of Pomona/Occidental.  Game is Saturday
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 03, 2008, 01:53:02 PM
Wow.  Wow.  Wow.

I don't know if this is a matter of "goes around, comes around" for football, but we'll take it.   Whitworth at home on Saturday, can't wait!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 01:54:04 PM
Wow.  So WW really did luck out.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 01:57:57 PM
Congrats to Whitworth on winning the Conference Championship for real!  And kudos for getting a decent position in the playoffs.

Why is everyone surprised that PP/Oxy has to travel to Whitworth, who has a bye?  Whitworth beat PP in the regular season and comes from the NWC, where their only conference losses were to the 4 teams that tied for 3rd.  6 of 9 finished above .500 this year!  That's a tough conference.

I don't think it's luck -- they earned it.  And, they got ripped off during FB!

Sorry that the Bearcats are out for this year, but will cheer for the NWC, which right now is represented by Whitworth!  Go Bucs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 02:04:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 12:32:29 PM
Whitworth hosts v Ponoma Pitzer on Thurs.

Winner goes to Occidental on Sat.

I am a bit confused.  This link http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/08/pairings.htm
has Whitworth with a bye then hosting the winner of Pomona/Oxy?
This is remarkable and incredibly awesome!!!!  With Chapman getting bounced from the B's the 3 pod was created for West Coast's 3 teams.  Oxy, despite better regional ranking, could not have been awarded 2 home games after losing their Conf. Tourney.  Coming to WW, who won NWC outright and the NWC tourney is the right move.  OXY wiill get their rematch vs PP  This all seems so ridiculously simple and justifiable.  I am so impressed with the committee for making a good choice.  The West Coast will have a representative in the 3rd round!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 02:08:07 PM
Well WW definately earned their spot in the NCAA but considering they weren't ever ranked in the regional rankings (maybe the last secret rankings) it is very suprising.  There are 5 total byes, if they were strictly given on merit, then WW wouldn't even been considered as one of the top 5 teams in country.  But since the NCAA doesn't make any money on this tournament and tries to cut corners, WW gets the bye then gets to host.  Also I am pretty sure that in the rules it states that two teams from the same conference shall not meet each other in the first round.  

I think that what would have made the most sense would have been to give Chapman the bid and let Oxy host, then it could have been a 4-team pod of WW, Chapman, Oxy, and Pomona.  With WW playing Pomona and Oxy playing Chapman.  That way only WW would have had to fly and the NCAA could have saved their money, and that way the bye could have been better used else where.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 02:16:55 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 02:08:07 PM
Well WW definately earned their spot in the NCAA but considering they weren't ever ranked in the regional rankings (maybe the last secret rankings) it is very suprising.  There are 5 total byes, if they were strictly given on merit, then WW wouldn't even been considered as one of the top 5 teams in country.  But since the NCAA doesn't make any money on this tournament and tries to cut corners, WW gets the bye then gets to host.  Also I am pretty sure that in the rules it states that two teams from the same conference shall not meet each other in the first round.  

I think that what would have made the most sense would have been to give Chapman the bid and let Oxy host, then it could have been a 4-team pod of WW, Chapman, Oxy, and Pomona.  With WW playing Pomona and Oxy playing Chapman.  That way only WW would have had to fly and the NCAA could have saved their money, and that way the bye could have been better used else where.
I think it is clear that the committee did not want Chapman in the field  Losses to all the other 3 WC teams in the field made that an easy call if they decided to exercise it and they did.  The 3 pod was created and in this scenario only one team flys (winner of Oxy-PP).  If 4 teams are in, only 1 team flys (WW).  My bets were on the 4 team set you mentioned but no, Chapman is out.  As far playing against your own Conf. in first round, that can't be a rule or it wouldn'y happen.  I think it is a strong consideration to consider, but in this scenario where Oxy is clearly the better team, this works.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 02:18:58 PM
I actually think it would be better if the west Coast teams didn't have to knock each other out during the 1st and 2nd rounds.  Look at the women's match-up.  Every year two NWC women's teams end up in the same pod and one is out!  This year, GFU & UPS were both ranked high regionally and look at them!

So, a little fairness in the men's contest is only right!

Besides, didn't Whitworth beat Richard Stockton in New York?  That has to count for something!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 02:43:54 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 02:18:58 PM
I actually think it would be better if the west Coast teams didn't have to knock each other out during the 1st and 2nd rounds.  Look at the women's match-up.  Every year two NWC women's teams end up in the same pod and one is out!  This year, GFU & UPS were both ranked high regionally and look at them!

So, a little fairness in the men's contest is only right!

Besides, didn't Whitworth beat Richard Stockton in New York?  That has to count for something!
You know there is WC and then there is the West.  The West will be well represented in the 3rd round.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 02:48:18 PM
Thats because the West extends to Wisconsin and Texas!  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 02:48:18 PM
Thats because the West extends to Wisconsin and Texas!  :D
Word.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 03:02:37 PM
Not to get too far ahead...but assuming the WW can make it past its home game in the second round, they will most likely face UW-WW in the sweet 16, #4 nationally.  And then in the elite 8 it would be Centre or Hope #2 & 3.  Yikes!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 03:02:37 PM
Not to get too far ahead...but assuming the WW can make it past its home game in the second round, they will most likely face UW-WW in the sweet 16, #4 nationally.  And then in the elite 8 it would be Centre or Hope #2 & 3.  Yikes!
That would fine by us.  The tourney is very top-heavy this year and having a round of 16 game will most likely be against a monster.  Upsets happen.  WW needs to get back Oxy first, sorry PP, just not gonna happen twice.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 02:48:18 PM
Thats because the West extends to Wisconsin and Texas!  :D
Word.

What's with that anyway?  It's been 200 years since Texas was "West" and Wisconsin?  Is it time to make a Midwest grouping?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 03:16:39 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 03:08:25 PM
What's with that anyway?  It's been 200 years since Texas was "West" and Wisconsin?  Is it time to make a Midwest grouping?
We will see a D4 and then re-alignment.  Huge number of East Coast schools make it necessary for the West to be so broad.  It's a balancing act.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 03:25:19 PM
Aside from the NWC, SCIAC, UC Santa Cruz, Chapman, and Colorada College (and provisional member La Serria)  there really any teams from here to Wisconsin/Texas.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 03:28:42 PM
So, NWhoops, do you think any of the NWC teams would go D4?  Or is it an East coast thing?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 03:34:38 PM
I heard that it was more the SCIAC that was interested.  I couldn't imagine that WW or UPS would want to drop down when they have been very competitive in the current arrangement.  It would seem like it would have to be all or nothing for the NWC if only a few members changed then the NWC would fall apart, and fail to qualify as a conference for an AQ.  Also for the schools that dropped down, they would have to find a new conference provide new travel expense concerns to a already limited budget.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 03:28:42 PM
So, NWhoops, do you think any of the NWC teams would go D4?  Or is it an East coast thing?
I have no real clue about D4 other than it is inevitable.  I think that it would appeal to schools that support put downplay athletics from an institutional arrangement.  It could be for smaller schools,  no one knows right now.   It might bring in some schools as well as the schools that are currently forming.  Athletics is part of the college experience and colleges and universities know that and want to provide their undergraduates that experience.  As for NWC, I think it is a good conference and could use one more member, not less.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 03:34:38 PM
I heard that it was more the SCIAC that was interested.  I couldn't imagine that WW or UPS would want to drop down when they have been very competitive in the current arrangement.  It would seem like it would have to be all or nothing for the NWC if only a few members changed then the NWC would fall apart, and fail to qualify as a conference for an AQ.  Also for the schools that dropped down, they would have to find a new conference provide new travel expense concerns to a already limited budget.
D4 would seem a natural for Cal Tech and Claremont, but not Oxy or Cal Lu.  Just an uninformed opinion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 03, 2008, 06:32:37 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 03:28:42 PM
So, NWhoops, do you think any of the NWC teams would go D4?  Or is it an East coast thing?

I hope the conference stuck together when they sent in the information survey about D4 and said "No Thanks". 

I believe if there is a divide in the conference it might be between schools that depend on athletics to help drive tuition numbers (Linfield, PLU, Pacific, GFU, Whitworth) vs the schools that have the endowment where athletics is not as big of component to bring in more students (Willamette, L&C, Whitman, UPS).

The last thing we need out in the FAR west is for athletics to be fragmented even more.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 06:41:33 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 03, 2008, 06:32:37 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 03:28:42 PM
So, NWhoops, do you think any of the NWC teams would go D4?  Or is it an East coast thing?

I hope the conference stuck together when they sent in the information survey about D4 and said "No Thanks". 

I believe if there is a divide in the conference it might be between schools that depend on athletics to help drive tuition numbers (Linfield, PLU, Pacific, GFU, Whitworth) vs the schools that have the endowment where athletics is not as big of component to bring in more students (Willamette, L&C, Whitman, UPS).

The last thing we need out in the FAR west is for athletics to be fragmented even more.


That is something we can all agree on.  I would think that the NWC would say thanks, but no thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 06:55:20 PM
True story about NWC and D-4 -- we need all of our teams.  In fact, does anyone understand why Menlo College is only a FB affiliate?  Why don't they just join our conference?   Or maybe we should recruit one of the independents around here --- preferably someone with a football team!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 07:02:40 PM
HOOPS MY DEAR FRIENDS, TALK HOOPS!!!  WE ARE HOSTING A GAME IN SPOKANE!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 03, 2008, 07:13:43 PM
bbaddict,

I'll give you the down and dirty so the board can focus at the task at hand (hoops)

-Menlo has duel affiliation between the NAIA/DIII in the athletic department and is fine with their local conference membership with all other sports (sans football).  The NWC isn't crazy about their admission practices but we needed the 7th football member.

-EOU was a D3 football indy but the NWC said no to their requests to join the NWC due to their status as a non-private and they went back to the NAIA in football.

-College of Idaho "might" be a D3 athletic member down the road (3-5 years) and could be the NWC's 10th member one day.  They have looked into football but I doubt they'll bring it back.

-Pacific is trying to raise the funds for football and will know if they can move forward next year.  The Boxers still have close to 1M to raise  (http://catdomealumni.blogspot.com/2008/01/red-and-purple-interview-pacific.html)before they could really get the football possibility in motion.  GFU was rumored to be looking at football but they decided to put their $ in other areas.

-I doubt the NWC membership will want to go D4 since the membership usually sides on less restrictions (redshirts, spring ball, etc) than wanting to limit athletics.  However, who knows what the Whitmans and L&C’s will pull for.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 07:19:53 PM
Thanks Wildcat for that educational response.  I also have heard rumors about that other ball (not bb) at GFU and Pacific, have even seen them working out at Fox.

Whitman was one of the schools I thought might go for the D4 tag.  Don't count on LC leaving the NWC just yet.

So, NWhoops -- the SCIAC contingency hasn't changed the plan yet?  I heard rumors that they were all going to pull strings and change the location of the game because they're upset about it.  Oh wait, we've been there, done that and things rarely change.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2008, 07:17:22 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 03, 2008, 07:13:43 PM
However, who knows what the Whitmans and L&C's will pull for.

Lewis & Clark will pull for keeping their storied rivalry with Oxy going.

OxyBob

Is that the one where Oxy clobbers LC every year?  Or is there something else?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 03, 2008, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2008, 07:17:22 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 03, 2008, 07:13:43 PM
However, who knows what the Whitmans and L&C's will pull for.

Lewis & Clark will pull for keeping their storied rivalry with Oxy going.

OxyBob

Is that the one where Oxy clobbers LC every year?  Or is there something else?

That happens every year? I must have missed something...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 09:01:35 PM
Pio --that's because they don't play each other in basketball!  Think about it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 09:10:56 PM
QuoteSo, NWhoops -- the SCIAC contingency hasn't changed the plan yet?  I heard rumors that they were all going to pull strings and change the location of the game because they're upset about it.  Oh wait, we've been there, done that and things rarely change.

The funny thing is that if it were Oxy that got the lucky draw the NCAA would have changed it 2 hours later (ie. last year).  Great break for the NWC though.  What is done is done...we just need to get these games under way :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 09:24:30 PM
Hoops, how much research have you done on Pomona and Oxy?  I would think that you would rather see Pomona up there in the snowy eastside?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 03, 2008, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 09:01:35 PM
Pio --that's because they don't play each other in basketball!  Think about it.

oh you are talking about football. I get it now. I think if PP were to beat Oxy again, WW would have their hands full with a team that thinks they can be a cinderella team and beat anyone. Then again, going up against Oxy is no easier. WW beat PP 73-45 late in Novemeber, but we all know how much a team grows between early non-conference play and now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 09:53:50 PM
True true.  WW delivered a whuppin to Pomona earlier in the year...but I would say both teams have improved and developed.  Either way its tournament time and the games are starting soon!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 10:05:55 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 09:24:30 PM
Hoops, how much research have you done on Pomona and Oxy?  I would think that you would rather see Pomona up there in the snowy eastside?
To prepare for PP would be like Lloyd Christmas hooking up with Mary Swanson, "One in a million!, so you're saying I got a chance."

I would love to be wrong but Playing Oxy in Spokane feels so right.  Can't stop the destiny.  LOL
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 10:10:07 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 03, 2008, 09:35:40 PM
oh you are talking about football. I get it now. I think if PP were to beat Oxy again, WW would have their hands full with a team that thinks they can be a cinderella team and beat anyone. Then again, going up against Oxy is no easier. WW beat PP 73-45 late in Novemeber, but we all know how much a team grows between early non-conference play and now.
So has Whitworth.  WW would be strongly favored today to win against every opponent they met in preseason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2008, 10:12:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 09:53:50 PM
True true.  WW delivered a whuppin to Pomona earlier in the year...but I would say both teams have improved and developed.  Either way its tournament time and the games are starting soon!
Not for Whitworth!  We have a first round bye.  Dang that rolls off the tongue so nicely.  I have said it about 5000 times today with the first 2500 in disbelief.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 11:43:03 PM
This seems to be the top 5 days in NWhoops' life.  Haha :D  Lucky dog!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 04, 2008, 01:51:51 AM
Congrats to Whitworth on the 1st round bye and 2nd round host, that's huge for our conference.  Get a win and then do damage in the round of 16, the deeper they can go the better.  I've never been to a Whitworth game, is a large crowd expected Pirate faithful?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 04, 2008, 02:09:17 AM
Hey NWCer -- great post on the SCIAC site regarding transfers.  Whitworth does usually have very large crowds, some of which includes half naked (male) students with painted chests.  They're also very noisy!  It's a field house so it holds a lot of fans!

I'm with you -- go Bucs -- make the NWC proud by winning against the SCIAC rep. and then go for it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 04, 2008, 02:16:26 AM
I'm glad you let us know that it was male students with the naked painted chests.  I may have had to make the trip to snowy eastern Washington if you didn't point that out.   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2008, 02:39:45 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2008, 02:18:58 PM
I actually think it would be better if the west Coast teams didn't have to knock each other out during the 1st and 2nd rounds.  Look at the women's match-up.  Every year two NWC women's teams end up in the same pod and one is out!  This year, GFU & UPS were both ranked high regionally and look at them!

So, a little fairness in the men's contest is only right!

Besides, didn't Whitworth beat Richard Stockton in New York?  That has to count for something!

No, it doesn't, because it wasn't a regional game.

I'm not disputing Whitworth's merits, because I'm sure that the Pirates are a good team and will represent their conference well in the tourney. But this is all about money. The D3 men's basketball tourney loses money every year, as do the tournaments in every D3 sport, so this is basically subsidized by the D1 basketball tournament. The D3 tourney is thus on a tight budget, which means saving airfares wherever possible. That's why Whitworth gets a bye and hosts a second-round game. The Pirates didn't earn it, because Whitworth wasn't even ranked in the last West Region ranking released to the public. While geography often works against the NWC, this time it worked in the NWC's favor.

And, yes, there is a rule in the D3 championship handbook about teams from the same conference being kept from playing each other in the first round. However, the handbook also states that this particular rule can be superseded for geographic reasons. Having Oxy and PP play each other in the first round means that the NCAA only has to pay PP's busfare from Claremont to L.A., rather than having to shell out the bucks to fly someone in or out of southern California.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2008, 04:02:41 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 11:43:03 PM
This seems to be the top 5 days in NWhoops' life.  Haha :D  Lucky dog!
Not quiet but I am happy for members of the WW team.  I haven't seen a team come together like this at WW since I have been watching. 

The place will be full and rocking and some males will be sans le shirt avec le paint.  WW recently hung a giant banner from one side of the fieldhouse to the other.  It really makes the place feel smaller and the court the center of the venue and the other plus is the place is noisier for the games.  No capacity loss.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 04, 2008, 02:16:26 AM
I'm glad you let us know that it was male students with the naked painted chests.  I may have had to make the trip to snowy eastern Washington if you didn't point that out.   ;D

Never too old for college girls right? :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 04:17:41 PM
The last Top 25 poll, besides the final one, was released today.

Even with their strong finish, WW couldn't break the Top 25 and only mustered 9 points.  I am a bit suprised by this result...I would have thought they would be closer to breaking the Top 25.  They have a chance to prove it in the tournament though, the final poll could look much differnent after everything is all said and done.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2008, 05:18:16 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 04:17:41 PM
The last Top 25 poll, besides the final one, was released today.

Even with their strong finish, WW couldn't break the Top 25 and only mustered 9 points.  I am a bit suprised by this result...I would have thought they would be closer to breaking the Top 25.  They have a chance to prove it in the tournament though, the final poll could look much differnent after everything is all said and done.
I think the pollsters were a bit apathetic on this poll because it really is the most meaningless of the polls that are done.  That being said, WW picked up 6 votes!!  Guess beating UPS isn't that impressive anymore. ;D :o ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 05:33:48 PM
ah nice pot-shot there
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2008, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2008, 05:18:16 PM
That being said, WW picked up 6 votes!!  Guess beating UPS isn't that impressive anymore. ;D :o ;)

Not when UPS is 19-7
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2008, 05:47:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 05:33:48 PM
ah nice pot-shot there
You can count on me! ;) :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 06:19:49 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 04, 2008, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2008, 05:18:16 PM
That being said, WW picked up 6 votes!!  Guess beating UPS isn't that impressive anymore. ;D :o ;)

Not when UPS is 19-7

Bring back the glory days when we could count on UPS meeting UW-Stevens Point in the sweet 16!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 04, 2008, 06:28:15 PM

[/quote]

Bring back the glory days when we could count on UPS meeting UW-Stevens Point in the sweet 16!
[/quote]

Oh, you mean 2004-2006?  To that you'll need to bring back Bridgeland, but I think he's looking for a head coaching job, isn't he?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 09:01:40 PM
I wouldn't think you need to bring Bridgeland for that.  Seems like they are doing the exact same things as in years past.  Even if Bridgeland was here, I think most of the teams in the league have figured out how to play against UPS so it wouldn't matter all that much. 

It's probably time for UPS to switch things up...I am not talking about an entire overhaul, but something needs to be done.  Lunt has lots of options with all those athletes.  It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 09:03:43 PM
Now back to Whitworth watch 2008.

We are going to send it live to NWhoops to get the latest update,

Take it away Hoops...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on March 04, 2008, 10:20:40 PM
im new here but i doubt that bridgeland was doing the SAME THING at ups...seems like if he was doing the same thing, he wouldn't have led ups to a 44-4 record over a 3 year period...i've been in the region for alot of yrs and i can tell you that he has done alot more with alot less than what the current ups roster has/and better results


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 04, 2008, 11:12:06 PM
You're right mtnman -- it was his energy!

So, how are things in Spokane.   When we were there for the WU/Whitworth game the place was covered in snow.  Like the worst storm in 15 years or something.  Hopefully, some has melted?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 05, 2008, 12:33:31 AM
From the front page
             
Quotea distinct west coast bias.

Something rarely seen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 05, 2008, 12:54:10 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 04, 2008, 11:12:06 PM
You're right mtnman -- it was his energy!

Would you say Lunt has lots of energy too?  He can get pretty animated on the sidelines.

Hayford suprised me by being pretty calm this year in Tacoma...maybe because WW was in control most of the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 05, 2008, 12:55:49 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 05, 2008, 12:33:31 AM
From the front page
             
Quotea distinct west coast bias.

Something rarely seen.

I might have just missed it, but was that a link on the front page or just a line from their leading story?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 05, 2008, 01:14:26 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 05, 2008, 12:55:49 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 05, 2008, 12:33:31 AM
From the front page
             
Quotea distinct west coast bias.

Something rarely seen.

I might have just missed it, but was that a link on the front page or just a line from their leading story?

I think it was when they were discussing brackets and selection and how the NCAA's selection criteria could have a west coast bias because it could result in Oxy, PP, CLU, Whitworth, and Chapman getting in. "If going only by the numbers [new strength of schedule calculations], the Division III men's tournament could have a distinct west coast bias." Of course, Chapman and CLU were left out. So it is not the bias it was once thought to be.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 05, 2008, 02:20:45 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 05, 2008, 12:33:31 AM
From the front page
             
Quotea distinct west coast bias.

Something rarely seen.

You sure they weren't referring to men's D1 bb?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2008, 03:11:32 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 09:01:40 PM
I wouldn't think you need to bring Bridgeland for that.  Seems like they are doing the exact same things as in years past.  Even if Bridgeland was here, I think most of the teams in the league have figured out how to play against UPS so it wouldn't matter all that much. 

It's probably time for UPS to switch things up...I am not talking about an entire overhaul, but something needs to be done.  Lunt has lots of options with all those athletes.  It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.
UPS's substitution pattern this year did NOT resemble anything from last year or under Bridgeland.  Lunt is a different coach and has a different approach.  I think that is obvious around the league and "most teams have figured out" statement is only semi true because that system is not being used at UPS any longer.  I respect Lunt for wanting to find his own style and yet try to maintain the best of a very effective coaching theory.  He does have a very good group of talented players, that's for sure.

Quote from: mtnman on March 04, 2008, 10:20:40 PM
im new here but i doubt that bridgeland was doing the SAME THING at ups...seems like if he was doing the same thing, he wouldn't have led ups to a 44-4 record over a 3 year period...i've been in the region for alot of yrs and i can tell you that he has done alot more with alot less than what the current ups roster has/and better results
This is true.  Bridgeland was a very good coach and I am sure the Conf. was sad to see him leave. ::) :o ;) ;D, I know I was devastated and smiled for 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2008, 03:34:46 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 05, 2008, 12:54:10 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 04, 2008, 11:12:06 PM
You're right mtnman -- it was his energy!

Would you say Lunt has lots of energy too?  He can get pretty animated on the sidelines.

Hayford suprised me by being pretty calm this year in Tacoma...maybe because WW was in control most of the game.
I think Hayford surprised and impressed alot of his peers and NWC types this year in a number of ways.  I think this calmness observation is good.  Winning does that, but I think that it was more about his team and how much they looked to him as the anchor.  Bryan Williams provided 40 minutes of steady to his teammates for 4 years and so the coach could rely on that fact.  Nakamura, being a new player, wasn't going to deliver that immediately and Symes is actually a pretty emotional player.  Hayford had a new backcourt, 2 new coaches and an emotional frontcourt.  A man's got to do what a man's got to do and being calm isn't a natural gift.  Castle still likes to watch and see how red Hayford's bald head gets and talk about it during timeouts, when in actuality, the coach kept it level this year in nearly every circumstance.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2008, 03:36:24 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 05, 2008, 12:33:31 AM
From the front page
             
Quotea distinct west coast bias.

Something rarely seen.
FRONT PAGE OF WHAT?  DRUDGE REPORT?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2008, 03:39:37 AM
The front page of this website.

You do realize that d3hoops.com has a front page, don't you?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2008, 04:01:09 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2008, 03:39:37 AM
The front page of this website.

You do realize that d3hoops.com has a front page, don't you?
LOL, I think I do....just couldn't find the quote..Can you?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2008, 04:30:38 AM
Check the caption for the picture accompanying the story entitled "Picking the field of 59".
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 05, 2008, 01:00:08 PM
Just to chime in on the Hayford being calm, I only saw him once this year, at Pacific, and he was as upset, and as uncalm as any coach I saw this year.  But to his defense it was towards the end of an intense game that he was losing, and if I'm not mistaken it was their third loss in a row.  Since then they've been rollin, and now already in the field of 32 and a home game win from the sweet 16 I'm pretty sure he's his mellow c.ot.y. type self now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2008, 01:06:02 PM
Gotta check the front page at least once a day this time of year. Stories move fast!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2008, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 05, 2008, 01:00:08 PM
Just to chime in on the Hayford being calm, I only saw him once this year, at Pacific, and he was as upset, and as uncalm as any coach I saw this year.  But to his defense it was towards the end of an intense game that he was losing, and if I'm not mistaken it was their third loss in a row.  Since then they've been rollin, and now already in the field of 32 and a home game win from the sweet 16 I'm pretty sure he's his mellow c.ot.y. type self now.
Glad to hear he still has it in him!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 05, 2008, 10:27:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2008, 03:39:37 AM
The front page of this website.

You do realize that d3hoops.com has a front page, don't you?

NWHoops only lives on this board, once WW makes the front page he will be there too!  :) :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 05, 2008, 10:36:44 PM
Good burn LogShow!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 01:03:34 AM
NWHoops is riding so high I have to try to bring him down a notch or two so he doesn't get lost in the clouds :) :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 01:27:12 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 01:03:34 AM
NWHoops is riding so high I have to try to bring him down a notch or two so he doesn't get lost in the clouds :) :D
Your right Logshow, I am still riding high thanks to that 96-69 win over UPS.  The thought of beating UPS 3x in one season.  The tourney is just icing on the cake.  Did I mention the 96-69 win?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 02:07:41 AM
NWhoops you make me laugh ;D :D

The only consolence I can take is that (excluding this year of course :) )  UPS has beaten WW 8 out of the last 9 times.  Including in the NWC championship game in 05-06.

The 3 losses take the running total to 8-4 in UPS favor.  Or 4-8 from WW's side.

The 3 losses and the poor showing in the championship game were tough to stomach though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 06:31:43 AM
Be careful Logs.  UPS didn't even show up on the BB radar until 2004 when Bridgeland made it a serious contender.   Before that, UPS was a swimming or soccer school.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 12:26:41 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 06:31:43 AM
Be careful Logs.  UPS didn't even show up on the BB radar until 2004 when Bridgeland made it a serious contender.   Before that, UPS was a swimming or soccer school.
Yea, I think you are reaching a bit on that one Log, but I don't blame you.  Sounds like you are stuck with that saying, "Wait til LAST year, or is it LAST LAST year for UPS?"  All that being said, UPS will probably be the preseason pick to win conf in 09. lol ::)

What is UPS vs WW record throughout conf. history?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
The new conference tourney has been in effect for the past 3 years.  UPS and WW have met twice, both times in the championship game.  Each have won 1 and lost 1.

I don't know if UPS played WW in the old tournament...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 12:55:30 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 06:31:43 AM
Be careful Logs.  UPS didn't even show up on the BB radar until 2004 when Bridgeland made it a serious contender.   Before that, UPS was a swimming or soccer school.

Hey I am just talking about recent trends :)...like a stock investor
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 02:32:16 PM
Put your money into real estate, not stocks -- more reliable!   ;) 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 03:53:23 PM
Keeping with my promise to not discuss strictly NWC things on the SCIAC board...

bbaddict,  why do you say WW got screwed in 2003?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 04:34:29 PM
Because they had the best record that season for the teams in their grouping, but had to travel to Minnesota to play.   There were lots of reasons given for Whitworth not getting to play at home, but it was the same old, same old .... no money for DIII sports, etc.   I just think nwhoops is a little smug on the fairness issue since Whitworth got great positioning this year, but it hasn't always worked out that way!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 06:08:04 PM
Looking back that Gustavus Adolphus team ended up making the national championship game.  Would have been interesting to see how WW would have done at home against them.  But from the looks of their tournament run they had to win the rest of the games on the road.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 06, 2008, 06:58:18 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 02:32:16 PM
Put your money into real estate, not stocks -- more reliable!   ;) 

With this housing market?  How about a sure shot... you give me your money, I'll give it all back

...and keep the measley 3% I can earn in a CD...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 08:42:24 PM
Appreciation in the NW market (Portland & Seattle) is 5-6% minimum -- way down fromt the 15-28% we were getting used to, but lots better than a savings account. :)  Just depends on where you live ...
real estate is local!

We'll never know about that 2003 Whitworth team --- all I'm saying is that when the selection fairies zonk you a bad one, it's not very fun!  The Gusties did have a good run that year, but, what if?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
The new conference tourney has been in effect for the past 3 years.  UPS and WW have met twice, both times in the championship game.  Each have won 1 and lost 1.

I don't know if UPS played WW in the old tournament...
All true but WW has won 2 straight and UPS has lost 2 straight.  I am sorry about the constent UPS digs but it was pretty rough listening to The Show and a few others from 04-06.  I will back off now that the games are here. 

Speaking of which, the article from the front page, yes that front page, said this, "A geographically challenged bracket, to be sure, and the one which the NCAA originally announced incorrectly, suggesting Occidental had gotten the first-round bye. Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth, but geography trumps all."  Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth?  What does that staement mean?  Certainly and barely in the same sentence describing the same subject.  Journalism major at WA ST, OR ST. or Linfield?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 08:52:31 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 04:34:29 PM
Because they had the best record that season for the teams in their grouping, but had to travel to Minnesota to play.   There were lots of reasons given for Whitworth not getting to play at home, but it was the same old, same old .... no money for DIII sports, etc.   I just think nwhoops is a little smug on the fairness issue since Whitworth got great positioning this year, but it hasn't always worked out that way!
No it hasn't.  2003 was a rough bracket and we gave Adolph a pretty good game in unfriendly country.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
The new conference tourney has been in effect for the past 3 years.  UPS and WW have met twice, both times in the championship game.  Each have won 1 and lost 1.

I don't know if UPS played WW in the old tournament...
All true but WW has won 2 straight and UPS has lost 2 straight.  I am sorry about the constent UPS digs but it was pretty rough listening to The Show and a few others from 04-06.  I will back off now that the games are here. 

Speaking of which, the article from the front page, yes that front page, said this, "A geographically challenged bracket, to be sure, and the one which the NCAA originally announced incorrectly, suggesting Occidental had gotten the first-round bye. Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth, but geography trumps all."  Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth?  What does that staement mean?  Certainly and barely in the same sentence describing the same subject.  Journalism major at WA ST, OR ST. or Linfield?



You were on the front page?  :D ;D :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 08:59:55 PM
I think I would take definately maybe, over certainly barely
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
The new conference tourney has been in effect for the past 3 years.  UPS and WW have met twice, both times in the championship game.  Each have won 1 and lost 1.

I don't know if UPS played WW in the old tournament...
All true but WW has won 2 straight and UPS has lost 2 straight.  I am sorry about the constent UPS digs but it was pretty rough listening to The Show and a few others from 04-06.  I will back off now that the games are here. 

Speaking of which, the article from the front page, yes that front page, said this, "A geographically challenged bracket, to be sure, and the one which the NCAA originally announced incorrectly, suggesting Occidental had gotten the first-round bye. Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth, but geography trumps all."  Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth?  What does that staement mean?  Certainly and barely in the same sentence describing the same subject.  Journalism major at WA ST, OR ST. or Linfield?

While it sounds odd, there is actually nothing wrong with the sentence you highlighted.  The selection criteria are pretty cut-and-dried (human interpretation enters only in how the various criteria are weighted).  By the criteria, Oxy is clearly above Whitworth, though the margin is not large.  IMO, if either Chapman or Cal Lu had gotten in, there would be a 4-team west coast pod, and Oxy would be the host.  Geography, not merit, got Whitworth the bye.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2008, 09:28:35 PM
"We are honored to be back in the NCAA Division III basketball tournament," said Whitworth head coach Jim Hayford, the 2008 Northwest Conference Coach of the Year. "The word "surprised" does not do justice to how we feel about receiving a first round bye, and the word "thrilled" does not do justice to how we feel about hosting a second round game."

This is what Hayford has to say about Whitworth's seeding.  Maybe it's just a bit of Pirate luck that got them the "bye" and the host position.   I just hope they win!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 10:12:53 PM
shiver me timbers, just a bit of ye ol pirate luck!

But doesn't matter, time to find out who WW is going to be hosting on Saturday!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 10:28:22 PM
Wow! Oxy is down 24-12 with 2 to go in the first half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 10:30:38 PM
Here comes Oxy...cuts it to 24-17
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 10:32:58 PM
13-0 run to close the half pulls Oxy to 24-22 at half!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2008, 10:43:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
The new conference tourney has been in effect for the past 3 years.  UPS and WW have met twice, both times in the championship game.  Each have won 1 and lost 1.

I don't know if UPS played WW in the old tournament...
All true but WW has won 2 straight and UPS has lost 2 straight.  I am sorry about the constent UPS digs but it was pretty rough listening to The Show and a few others from 04-06.  I will back off now that the games are here. 

Speaking of which, the article from the front page, yes that front page, said this, "A geographically challenged bracket, to be sure, and the one which the NCAA originally announced incorrectly, suggesting Occidental had gotten the first-round bye. Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth, but geography trumps all."  Occidental is certainly more deserving, barely, than Whitworth?  What does that staement mean?  Certainly and barely in the same sentence describing the same subject.  Journalism major at WA ST, OR ST. or Linfield?

While it sounds odd, there is actually nothing wrong with the sentence you highlighted.  The selection criteria are pretty cut-and-dried (human interpretation enters only in how the various criteria are weighted).  By the criteria, Oxy is clearly above Whitworth, though the margin is not large.  IMO, if either Chapman or Cal Lu had gotten in, there would be a 4-team west coast pod, and Oxy would be the host.  Geography, not merit, got Whitworth the bye.

Yep. Guess it was a little disorienting for these guys to be outside of the message board, where the news is. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 10:47:29 PM
hey, I definately check out the stories on the front page, team of the week, around the nation, top 25...I venture out of the cozy confines of this board :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2008, 10:50:43 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2008, 10:43:52 PM
Yep. Guess it was a little disorienting for these guys to be outside of the message board, where the news is. :)

I don't understand; there is such a thing? lol    ??? ::) :P ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 10:58:56 PM
Oxy trying to extend the lead 34-31 with 12:30 to go
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2008, 11:07:26 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 10:50:43 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2008, 10:43:52 PM
Yep. Guess it was a little disorienting for these guys to be outside of the message board, where the news is. :)

I don't understand; there is such a thing? lol    ??? ::) :P ;)
It sounded weird to me and it sounded odd to Coleman.  That's all I am saying.  pfft.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 12:32:03 AM
Didn't sound odd to me. I wrote it.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 07, 2008, 01:20:51 AM
Good win for Oxy tonight.  Down early, came back strong, held on with great defensive play at the end.

I am really looking forward to seeing Oxy come to Spokane.  It has been a pretty rare thing for California teams to come north to Spokane and we haven't had much chance to see the best of each league match up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2008, 02:46:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 12:32:03 AM
Didn't sound odd to me. I wrote it.  :)
Sorry, I meant Ypsi said that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2008, 02:48:16 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 07, 2008, 01:20:51 AM
Good win for Oxy tonight.  Down early, came back strong, held on with great defensive play at the end.

I am really looking forward to seeing Oxy come to Spokane.  It has been a pretty rare thing for California teams to come north to Spokane and we haven't had much chance to see the best of each league match up.
I think that is something everyone can agree on.  The top team from SCIAC playing top team from NWC.  Too bad it couldn't be on a neutral court or better yet, in Salem.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 07, 2008, 03:00:55 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2008, 02:48:16 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 07, 2008, 01:20:51 AM
Good win for Oxy tonight.  Down early, came back strong, held on with great defensive play at the end.

I am really looking forward to seeing Oxy come to Spokane.  It has been a pretty rare thing for California teams to come north to Spokane and we haven't had much chance to see the best of each league match up.
I think that is something everyone can agree on.  The top team from SCIAC playing top team from NWC.  Too bad it couldn't be on a neutral court or better yet, in Salem.

Exactly!  Top team Vs. Top team with the best left standing.  Not too often SCIACs venture up to the Pacific Northwest to play in Washington, and when they do the games haven't been very pretty.  I feel like they have everything to lose nothing to gain by coming up there.  They don't really want to play teams like UPS or WW in the nonconference schedule.  And I guess why should they travel when they can sit in sunny So. Cal and let the snow birds come to them...well I have digressed.  It's going to be a great game on Saturday.  I am definately looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 08, 2008, 03:46:19 PM
So Logs, you have on your NWC or your SCIAC hat tonight?  It's going to be a great game, I'm sure.

Go get 'em Bucs -- I hear Oxy has a tough team, that is, if their dog sled arrives in time!

Wish I could be at the game, but I'll keep watch online.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on March 08, 2008, 10:33:37 PM
Dog Sled????----- Down in So. Cal we ride the waves were ever we need to go. 8)
Great game so far. Awesome job by the announcing crewing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 08, 2008, 10:54:39 PM
Sorry Browneagle --- the dog sled comment was in reference to someone on the SCIAC board saying that you needed one to get to Spokane!  I get confused about which board I'm on sometimes.

Castle is a really great announcer.  Wish I could be there --- it sounds exciting!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 12:03:38 AM
Congrats to WW...great win at home.  Lets see how far the NWC can go.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 12:04:53 AM
I wasn't able to listen, but I am sure NWhoops will give a very full and thourgh recap of the game :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 12:13:04 AM
Pretty suprised that UW-WW got beat on their home floor in the 1st round wow!  So who know where WW will end up
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 12:14:43 AM
The bracket isn't on the front page isn't filled out yet but Wheaton Ill beat Loras.  Should be an interesting game for WW.  Wheaton has really came on strong at the end of the season...just like WW, hopefully WW can keep it rolling
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 12:17:38 AM
Any guesses where WW will end up?

After looking at whos left in their pod...(Hope, Ohio Wesylan, and Wheaton)  I would assume somewhere in the Midwest.  It could very well end up at Hope, since I seriously doubt the Hope women will host because they host the women's final 4.  I think that would be the most logical place...and because Hope is #1 in the nation.  Logical is the key term though, and that is something the NCAA is not...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sbaum on March 09, 2008, 12:25:07 AM
You are definitely correct about the NCAA not being logical! I think the only thing we can be fairly confident about is that Whitworth will not be the team hosting next week. However, since the NCAA can be illogical, you never know! As a Hope fan, I would HOPE that it's here in Holland, but as you stated, the women have a legitimate shot at hosting as well. It will be exciting to see how it all works out!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2008, 01:05:56 AM
Congrats to Whitworth on reaching the Sweet 16.  Now go and win over Wheaton, wherever it is that you have to play.  (Pretty sure it won't be in Spokane!)  Great game against Oxy -- they were a worthy opponent!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 09, 2008, 01:08:16 AM
2004 the NCAA sent Lawrence(WI), Stevens Point(WI) and Sul Ross State (TX) to Puget Sound.

Its not unprecedented.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 01:09:13 AM
Because UWSP and Lawrence couldn't host.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 09, 2008, 01:12:57 AM
This is true!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 09, 2008, 03:12:10 AM
Boy, If I knew that it might be two NWC teams meeting my Hope College men and women, I would have caught a few more NWC games. My one night at LC doesn't bring any scouting back to Michigan.

And here I was a few weeks ago dreaming about An MIAA/NWC challenge over a Christmas holiday. Even though I will not get to see the games... Christmas has come early!  :D

Good luck to Whitworth, Wheaton will be quite the challenge. I hope you get past them for a chance to meet up with my Dutchmen. And I realize this is the men's board (Pat  ::)), and with all due respect, good luck GF ladies (I think you'll need it...)

Maybe next year I'll catch a few more games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 03:24:53 AM
From the stands:  Great Game for Whitworth.  Oxy played real tough in the first half and would not back down and took a 5 point lead into half.  Very good shooting from both teams but 7 3pt makes from Oxy kept them in the contest and find a nice lead after trailing 7-0 to start.  Oxy forced 6 TO's and only gave up 1.  WW did not play bad, but WW did give up their lead when Nakamura picked up his 2nd foul with 6+ min to go and sat down.  WW's offense wasn't clicking and Oxy hit some tough and very nice 3's to surge ahead.  38-33 at half.

Second half was all WW.  Oxy did fight, and very gamely, but it was simply to stay close and  when Nakamura hit his 3rd 3 to extend it to 14 and from there Whitworth held on and avoided some more 3 pt fg's by going perfect from the line once Oxy started fouling.  Whitworth was an impressive and record tying perfect from the charity stripe for the night 20-20.  WW also had no turnovers in the second half as Oxy turned up the pressure.  Nakamura improved his D3 best assist to turnover ratio by having an 8 A,1 TO night and 11 second half points.  Symes led the Pirates with 24 going 9-13 from the filed 2-2 from 3.  Willemson had 13 and 6 in the 2nd half and 9-9 from the line.

WW now faces Wheaton next round.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 04:08:18 AM
Here some sweet 16 info to toss around.  Illinois Wesleyan beat Wheaton 3x in 3 close games this season.  Oxy beat Illinois Wesleyan at Oxy in another close game.  WW beat Oxy in a battle.  Hope beat down Wheaton by 30.  Ohio Wesleyan is playing great basketball.  3 teams looking for a glass slipper going up against #1!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sbaum on March 09, 2008, 09:37:31 AM
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, depending on how you look at it, Wheaton's big man Wiele, did not really play in the game against Hope earlier this year when we played them. His presence and play has what has gotten them their 2 wins in this tournament thus far, so they look to be much more dangerous than anyone could have imagined with him playing healthy and on a mission. So it will be a really tough challenge for Whitworth, but based on the way they handled Oxy towards the end of the game last night, if they get a lead over Wheaton, maybe it will be tougher for them to come back.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: hope1 on March 09, 2008, 01:07:06 PM
for fans coming to hope this week here is a good motel to stay at with in walking distance to the arena            http://www.haworthinn.com/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 09, 2008, 02:11:33 PM
Really enjoyed last night in the Fieldhouse.  Oxy played very well, Whitworth just played better (other than the final five minutes of the first half).  Oxy had no answer for Ryan Symes.  Their big guys are solid (and I am sure having the 6-10 guy on the bench in street clothes didn't help), but none matched up athletically with Symes.

As long as Riley and Nakamura are shooting like the have the last couple of games, Whitworth will be a tough out for anyone in this tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:17:43 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 04:08:18 AM
Here some sweet 16 info to toss around.  Illinois Wesleyan beat Wheaton 3x in 3 close games this season.  Oxy beat Illinois Wesleyan at Oxy in another close game.  WW beat Oxy in a battle.  Hope beat down Wheaton by 30.  Ohio Wesleyan is playing great basketball.  3 teams looking for a glass slipper going up against #1!

Playing that game is fun.  But in the end doesn't really work because each team matchups up against each other differently.  There was a pretty funny comparision a few years ago that led the the conclusion that Cal Tech could beat Duke :D.  I was looking for it on the boards but I couldn't find it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:19:56 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 09, 2008, 02:11:33 PM
Really enjoyed last night in the Fieldhouse.  Oxy played very well, Whitworth just played better (other than the final five minutes of the first half).  Oxy had no answer for Ryan Symes.  Their big guys are solid (and I am sure having the 6-10 guy on the bench in street clothes didn't help), but none matched up athletically with Symes.

As long as Riley and Nakamura are shooting like the have the last couple of games, Whitworth will be a tough out for anyone in this tournament.

That makes WW very tough with Symes dominating down low and Riley/Nakamura hitting from the outside.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 09, 2008, 03:23:05 PM
Logshow, let's talk about next year!!!

Any word on UPS's recruiting.  Next year Williams, Foster, and Krauel are seniors, do you feel any of the classes below have that type of quality?  Does that make this a very important recruiting year for Lunt to keep the high Logger standards going?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 09, 2008, 03:23:05 PM
Logshow, let's talk about next year!!!

Any word on UPS's recruiting.  Next year Williams, Foster, and Krauel are seniors, do you feel any of the classes below have that type of quality?  Does that make this a very important recruiting year for Lunt to keep the high Logger standards going?
\


I thought you would never ask ;D

I am definately looking forward to next year!  I haven't heard anything about the Logger's recuriting yet.  I would assume that Lunt is trying to have a big year since he will be losing quite a few seniors next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 09, 2008, 03:47:19 PM
I'm happy for Whitworth and our conference Logshow and I hope they keep going, but you know I'm already looking forward to next year!!

After seeing UPS at Pacific early in the year, I still go away saying Williams and Foster (along with Symes) are probably the two most gifted players in the league, just a different type of player and athlete, and then you throw in Krauel, and they will be losing a TON after next season and I just wasn't as sure about the younger guys on the team, if they can match that.  And they've been 11-5 the last two years WITH those 3, do they get better, stay the same, get worse?  Just food for thought.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:48:07 PM
let me chew on that one for a bit...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.  Will WW?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 09, 2008, 04:04:43 PM
Check out the Hope facility, seems like a sweet place to play!  Go get 'em NWC!

http://www.hope.edu/pr/campusdev/devos.html


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 05:19:39 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 09, 2008, 04:04:43 PM
Check out the Hope facility, seems like a sweet place to play!  Go get 'em NWC!

http://www.hope.edu/pr/campusdev/devos.html




Yes it is! must be great to play there and in front of those fans...looks like a great atmosphere!

Thanks for the link NWCer
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: monsoon on March 09, 2008, 08:34:26 PM
I've just started a "Hope Sectional" thread in the Great Lakes Region.  Let's try to move the Whitworth - Wheaton - Hope - OWU talk to that common location.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 09, 2008, 09:50:29 PM
This is clearly overshadowed by the NCAA tournament at hand, but nonetheless interesting to know. Word on the street is Gaillard will be back. That makes me think Berrgren, Kollasch, and Papenfuss will be back as well.  Also word is there are two JUCO transfers on the way. Big men. Also, possibly a really good freshman guard from Oakland.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 10:22:55 PM
Quote from: monsoon on March 09, 2008, 08:34:26 PM
I've just started a "Hope Sectional" thread in the Great Lakes Region.  Let's try to move the Whitworth - Wheaton - Hope - OWU talk to that common location.
See you there,  Thanks!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 10:28:38 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.  Will WW?
I hope WW gets some travelers.  What a great weekend for Pirate hoops coming up.  I think we are playing with tremendous confidence and should have a great shot against Wheaton.  The neutral court will help erase last years game vs Washngton at their court that we lost by a bucket.  On a neutral court, I think we would have won that game. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 09, 2008, 09:50:29 PM
This is clearly overshadowed by the NCAA tournament at hand, but nonetheless interesting to know. Word on the street is Gaillard will be back. That makes me think Berrgren, Kollasch, and Papenfuss will be back as well.  Also word is there are two JUCO transfers on the way. Big men. Also, possibly a really good freshman guard from Oakland.

That's interesting, thanks Pio!  I was inder the impression that if Gaillard was back then those 3 were out...guess I was wrong, especially because of Berrgren's lack of playing time at the end of the season.

LC's getting two more big men?  Are they finally getting away from the 3-frenzy approach?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:46:28 PM
Yeah sounds like WW is really playing tough.

NWhoops, now its time to dig up the dirt on Wheaton...let me know what you get.

(I wouldn't mind doing it myself, but I assume you would enjoy it much more being that your team is the one playing...didn't want to steal your thunder) :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 09, 2008, 11:28:05 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 09, 2008, 09:50:29 PM
This is clearly overshadowed by the NCAA tournament at hand, but nonetheless interesting to know. Word on the street is Gaillard will be back. That makes me think Berrgren, Kollasch, and Papenfuss will be back as well.  Also word is there are two JUCO transfers on the way. Big men. Also, possibly a really good freshman guard from Oakland.

That's interesting, thanks Pio!  I was inder the impression that if Gaillard was back then those 3 were out...guess I was wrong, especially because of Berrgren's lack of playing time at the end of the season.

LC's getting two more big men?  Are they finally getting away from the 3-frenzy approach?

I wouldn't get too excited..haha. Berrgren and Allen love the threes. And obviously none of the recruits are for sure yet, but that's what I have heard so far. I worry about a repeat of this year though, with too much talent translating into inconsistent minutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 11:43:19 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:46:28 PM
Yeah sounds like WW is really playing tough.

NWhoops, now its time to dig up the dirt on Wheaton...let me know what you get.

(I wouldn't mind doing it myself, but I assume you would enjoy it much more being that your team is the one playing...didn't want to steal your thunder) :)
Wheaton has a legitimate 1st team All American in Raymond.  That's a tough assignment regardless of the other 4 on the court.  When we played Ruths from Washington last year, we did a half decent job but he still hung a nice game on us.  I think we are better this year on the interior.  If Jurichs can play against Raymond the way he did against Foster, we can win easily.  That being said, our post finally played last night without favoring an ankle and played with confidence and could be a huge boost for us next weekend.  We beat Wheaton last year at Wheaton.  We were happy and surprised about that result and it boosted our rankings but preseason games are so overrated.  WW is playing very good.  Wheaton slid in the tourney and have proven they belong, hats off.  They are on tourney roll and won't be considered an underdog against the Pirates.  That could change things.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2008, 11:46:02 PM
Weile lit up Lawrence in the first game...but didn't shoot much vs. Loras.  I think Weile still had double-digit rebounds.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 09, 2008, 09:50:29 PM
This is clearly overshadowed by the NCAA tournament at hand, but nonetheless interesting to know. Word on the street is Gaillard will be back. That makes me think Berrgren, Kollasch, and Papenfuss will be back as well.  Also word is there are two JUCO transfers on the way. Big men. Also, possibly a really good freshman guard from Oakland.

That's interesting, thanks Pio!  I was inder the impression that if Gaillard was back then those 3 were out...guess I was wrong, especially because of Berrgren's lack of playing time at the end of the season.

LC's getting two more big men?  Are they finally getting away from the 3-frenzy approach?

I think Papenfuss has to stay at LC, because he's married and his wife goes to school there.  I heard that he actually was quite impressed with UPS and what they had to offer, but got married and went to LC instead!

They're losing a lot of people to graduation, but I think their coach will re-build.  I thought some of those players were going to leave if Gaillard didn't return, because they didn't like the heir apparent?   Maybe I misunderstood.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 12:25:52 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 09, 2008, 11:46:02 PM
Weile lit up Lawrence in the first game...but didn't shoot much vs. Loras.  I think Weile still had double-digit rebounds.
Thanks.  Appreciate it.  Looks like the other guard shoots the 3 pretty well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2008, 12:28:43 AM
Wheaton has Raymond, but they are not a one-man team.  Andy Wiele was the main force against Lawrence (28 pts, 11 rbs) with Ben Panner also contributing 22 pts.  They hung in despite Raymond having a horrible night the first 35 minutes (though he OWNED the last 5 of regulation and the OT - going from 6 to 23 points over that span).  Their only other threat is a freshman, Jahns, who is capable of 2 or 18, depending on the night.

Bottom line: one superstar, two excellent players, a streaky freshman, and not much else.  If Wiele gets in foul trouble (and he sometimes does), their inside game is kaput.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 12:31:20 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2008, 12:28:43 AM
Wheaton has Raymond, but they are not a one-man team.  Andy Wiele was the main force against Lawrence (28 pts, 11 rbs) with Ben Panner also contributing 22 pts.  They hung in despite Raymond having a horrible night the first 35 minutes (though he OWNED the last 5 of regulation and the OT - going from 6 to 23 points over that span).  Their only other threat is a freshman, Jahns, who is capable of 2 or 18, depending on the night.

Bottom line: one superstar, two excellent players, a streaky freshman, and not much else.  If Wiele gets in foul trouble (and he sometimes does), their inside game is kaput.
Thanks for the insight.  Looking forward to Holland..isn't that veird! ;) :P :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 10, 2008, 01:02:24 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 09, 2008, 09:50:29 PM
This is clearly overshadowed by the NCAA tournament at hand, but nonetheless interesting to know. Word on the street is Gaillard will be back. That makes me think Berrgren, Kollasch, and Papenfuss will be back as well.  Also word is there are two JUCO transfers on the way. Big men. Also, possibly a really good freshman guard from Oakland.

That's interesting, thanks Pio!  I was inder the impression that if Gaillard was back then those 3 were out...guess I was wrong, especially because of Berrgren's lack of playing time at the end of the season.

LC's getting two more big men?  Are they finally getting away from the 3-frenzy approach?

I think Papenfuss has to stay at LC, because he's married and his wife goes to school there.  I heard that he actually was quite impressed with UPS and what they had to offer, but got married and went to LC instead!

They're losing a lot of people to graduation, but I think their coach will re-build.  I thought some of those players were going to leave if Gaillard didn't return, because they didn't like the heir apparent?   Maybe I misunderstood.

Yeah I though they might leave because they don't like Dinari, but since he is staying I think they will. I didn't know Papenfuss' wife goes here too. There will definitely be some transfers coming in. That is for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:40:55 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 11:43:19 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:46:28 PM
Yeah sounds like WW is really playing tough.

NWhoops, now its time to dig up the dirt on Wheaton...let me know what you get.

(I wouldn't mind doing it myself, but I assume you would enjoy it much more being that your team is the one playing...didn't want to steal your thunder) :)
Wheaton has a legitimate 1st team All American in Raymond.  That's a tough assignment regardless of the other 4 on the court.  When we played Ruths from Washington last year, we did a half decent job but he still hung a nice game on us.  I think we are better this year on the interior.  If Jurichs can play against Raymond the way he did against Foster, we can win easily.  That being said, our post finally played last night without favoring an ankle and played with confidence and could be a huge boost for us next weekend.  We beat Wheaton last year at Wheaton.  We were happy and surprised about that result and it boosted our rankings but preseason games are so overrated.  WW is playing very good.  Wheaton slid in the tourney and have proven they belong, hats off.  They are on tourney roll and won't be considered an underdog against the Pirates.  That could change things.

Jurich did do a great job defending Foster in Tacoma, and made him work for the points he got.  I don't know but I would guess that Raymond is probably more a a true post/down low player then Foster is.  Foster is much more finesse and doesn't embrace the contact down low.  That will be a huge help if Montgomery could put in some quality mins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:44:30 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2008, 11:43:19 PMWe beat Wheaton last year at Wheaton.  We were happy and surprised about that result and it boosted our rankings but preseason games are so overrated.

It wasn't a preseason game. It was a regular-season game. It counted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:45:17 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 12:20:54 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 09, 2008, 09:50:29 PM
This is clearly overshadowed by the NCAA tournament at hand, but nonetheless interesting to know. Word on the street is Gaillard will be back. That makes me think Berrgren, Kollasch, and Papenfuss will be back as well.  Also word is there are two JUCO transfers on the way. Big men. Also, possibly a really good freshman guard from Oakland.

That's interesting, thanks Pio!  I was inder the impression that if Gaillard was back then those 3 were out...guess I was wrong, especially because of Berrgren's lack of playing time at the end of the season.

LC's getting two more big men?  Are they finally getting away from the 3-frenzy approach?

I think Papenfuss has to stay at LC, because he's married and his wife goes to school there.  I heard that he actually was quite impressed with UPS and what they had to offer, but got married and went to LC instead!

They're losing a lot of people to graduation, but I think their coach will re-build.  I thought some of those players were going to leave if Gaillard didn't return, because they didn't like the heir apparent?   Maybe I misunderstood.

That would have been great if UPS could have landed Papenfuss.  He didn't get a ton of mins against UPS, but looking at the  box scores he put up some pretty good numbers.  Oh well :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:47:07 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2008, 12:28:43 AM
Wheaton has Raymond, but they are not a one-man team.  Andy Wiele was the main force against Lawrence (28 pts, 11 rbs) with Ben Panner also contributing 22 pts.  They hung in despite Raymond having a horrible night the first 35 minutes (though he OWNED the last 5 of regulation and the OT - going from 6 to 23 points over that span).  Their only other threat is a freshman, Jahns, who is capable of 2 or 18, depending on the night.

Bottom line: one superstar, two excellent players, a streaky freshman, and not much else.  If Wiele gets in foul trouble (and he sometimes does), their inside game is kaput.

Is he talking about WW?  ;) :D

Sounds like the teams are pretty similar in that sense...WW never really seemed to get in foul trouble though...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:48:28 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 12:31:20 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2008, 12:28:43 AM
Wheaton has Raymond, but they are not a one-man team.  Andy Wiele was the main force against Lawrence (28 pts, 11 rbs) with Ben Panner also contributing 22 pts.  They hung in despite Raymond having a horrible night the first 35 minutes (though he OWNED the last 5 of regulation and the OT - going from 6 to 23 points over that span).  Their only other threat is a freshman, Jahns, who is capable of 2 or 18, depending on the night.

Bottom line: one superstar, two excellent players, a streaky freshman, and not much else.  If Wiele gets in foul trouble (and he sometimes does), their inside game is kaput.
Thanks for the insight.  Looking forward to Holland..isn't that veird! ;) :P :D

Yeesh Dr. Evil!  Yeesh, Yeesh! ;D :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:53:09 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:40:55 AMJurich did do a great job defending Foster in Tacoma, and made him work for the points he got.  I don't know but I would guess that Raymond is probably more a a true post/down low player then Foster is.

Raymond does not post up all that often. He is the player who, about 75-80% of the time, has the ball in his hands on the perimeter. He's a score-or-dish penetrator in the Iverson mold whose great strength and body control allows him to finish after midair contact. He's also a superb passer (3.8 apg) and a streaky perimeter shooter (don't be swayed by his relatively low 32% shooting from downtown; Wheaton's offensive firepower is limited, which means that he's had to take a lot of shot-clock bailouts this season).

My guess is that Jim Hayford will take a page out of Hope's book and attempt to force the ball out of Raymond's hands by using halfcourt traps and various other double-teaming devices. Hope forced Raymond to turn the ball over 12 times in Michigan back in November, although Wheaton lost Andy Wiele to an injury in the third minute of that game. As Mr. Ypsi said, when Wheaton doesn't have Wiele in the game it's an impotent team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 10, 2008, 01:58:11 AM
It also helps if the refs don't buy Raymond's falling down routine everytime he drives the lane.   Otherwise its a parade of FT's, that also didn't happen vs Hope.  He's a tremendous player and should be the #1 focus of any defense.

I thought Hope bottled him up better than most teams had, and he still got 23 points.  They were very physical with the entire Wheaton team not just Raymond.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked. At any rate, it won't make any difference. DeVos Arena will have 3,000 screaming, orange-clad people on hand next Friday night -- but the orange won't be Wheaton orange. However many Wheaton, Ohio Wesleyan, and Whitworth supporters show up, they'll be a mere drop in the bucket in a sea of Hope fans. Hope annually outdraws every other school in D3 basketball, and the Hope faithful will eagerly snap up whatever tickets go unsold by the other three schools in the sectional.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 10, 2008, 02:06:48 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked. At any rate, it won't make any difference. DeVos Arena will have 3,000 screaming, orange-clad people on hand next Friday night -- but the orange won't be Wheaton orange. However many Wheaton, Ohio Wesleyan, and Whitworth supporters show up, they'll be a mere drop in the bucket in a sea of Hope fans. Hope annually outdraws every other school in D3 basketball, and the Hope faithful will eagerly snap up whatever tickets go unsold by the other three schools in the sectional.

The games will be sellouts, there's no question of that, its just a matter of how many tickets Wheaton/Whitworth/Ohio Wesleyan return from the 550 or so they'll be offered.

The general admission seats for last Saturday's game were pretty much gone by 6pm, 1 hour before tipoff.  There will probably be a pretty good crowd for the Wheaton/Whitworth game.

I personally love the double headers of Sectionals, its great fun.  I'll be there for the first game for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:27:16 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:40:55 AM
  I don't know but I would guess that Raymond is probably more a a true post/down low player then Foster is. 
Raymond is a guard who handles the ball alot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:35:34 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:47:07 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2008, 12:28:43 AM
Bottom line: one superstar, two excellent players, a streaky freshman, and not much else.  If Wiele gets in foul trouble (and he sometimes does), their inside game is kaput.

Is he talking about WW?  ;) :D

Sounds like the teams are pretty similar in that sense...WW never really seemed to get in foul trouble though...
I think he could be talking about Oxy, without the frosh, as well.

If Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.  I would love to see foul trouble on Wheaton.   WW plays smart defensive and avoids foul trouble.  WW loves to go to the line.  Both teams don't go deep down their benches.  Foul trouble might be the difference in deciding who wins this game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:45:07 AM
Quote from: sac on March 10, 2008, 01:58:11 AM
It also helps if the refs don't buy Raymond's falling down routine everytime he drives the lane.   Otherwise its a parade of FT's, that also didn't happen vs Hope.  He's a tremendous player and should be the #1 focus of any defense.

I thought Hope bottled him up better than most teams had, and he still got 23 points.  They were very physical with the entire Wheaton team not just Raymond.
Whitworth can be physical and will most likely deny the ball to Raymond in the half court.  If he gets it, he will most likely be facing a shot over a defender who is longer and taller than he is than a chance to penetrate and create.  Whitman had the most range as any shooter we had in the NWC and he was off the dribble nuts!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 04:15:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:35:34 AMIf Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.

Oh, but it is, my man, it is. Kent Raymond can do what any other superstar guard can do on this level, Connor Whitman included. He's a shoo-in first-teamer on this year's d3hoops.com All-American team.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:45:07 AMWhitworth can be physical and will most likely deny the ball to Raymond in the half court.

You don't "deny the ball" to the man who is bringing it up the floor. You find a way to force it out of his hands, most likely through trapping double-teams. Raymond is a point guard -- a score-first point guard, but a point guard nonetheless.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:45:07 AMIf he gets it, he will most likely be facing a shot over a defender who is longer and taller than he is than a chance to penetrate and create.

Penetrating and creating is what Raymond does, and very few teams have stopped him from doing it -- and CCIW defenses take a backseat to nobody in D3. Raymond not only has a very quick first step, he has an uncanny knowledge of the game and the ability to read a defense's (and a specific opponent's) weaknesses very, very quickly. Don't casually declare that Whitworth will stop him from doing this or stop him from doing that before you've seen him play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: HopeConvert on March 10, 2008, 09:56:39 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked. At any rate, it won't make any difference. DeVos Arena will have 3,000 screaming, orange-clad people on hand next Friday night -- but the orange won't be Wheaton orange. However many Wheaton, Ohio Wesleyan, and Whitworth supporters show up, they'll be a mere drop in the bucket in a sea of Hope fans. Hope annually outdraws every other school in D3 basketball, and the Hope faithful will eagerly snap up whatever tickets go unsold by the other three schools in the sectional.

Even with the Hope students on spring break. I know people are eagerly awaiting ticket information, and I'll be surprised if it's less than 3/4 full for the first game, and less than full for the second. I know I'm looking forward to the doubleheader (assuming I can get tickets ???).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 10:40:58 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 04:15:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:35:34 AMIf Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.

Oh, but it is, my man, it is. Kent Raymond can do what any other superstar guard can do on this level, Connor Whitman included. He's a shoo-in first-teamer on this year's d3hoops.com All-American team.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:45:07 AMWhitworth can be physical and will most likely deny the ball to Raymond in the half court.

You don't "deny the ball" to the man who is bringing it up the floor. You find a way to force it out of his hands, most likely through trapping double-teams. Raymond is a point guard -- a score-first point guard, but a point guard nonetheless.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:45:07 AMIf he gets it, he will most likely be facing a shot over a defender who is longer and taller than he is than a chance to penetrate and create.

Penetrating and creating is what Raymond does, and very few teams have stopped him from doing it -- and CCIW defenses take a backseat to nobody in D3. Raymond not only has a very quick first step, he has an uncanny knowledge of the game and the ability to read a defense's (and a specific opponent's) weaknesses very, very quickly. Don't casually declare that Whitworth will stop him from doing this or stop him from doing that before you've seen him play.
TOUCHY TOUCHY..I don't think I declared anything.  "Most likely" does not sound like a "we will shut him down."  Denying him in the "half court" was meant to say that if he does give up the ball, getting it back will be made difficult.  And no offense to CCIW teams or def. was implied or suggested.  Whitworth plays pretty good defense, when it wants or needs to.  Finally,  I said it wasn't possible because Whitman was out of his mind good for about 25 minutes and kept his team alive through sheer will and determination.  Not even directed at Raymond, who I KNOW is a point guard. 

Sager, I know you know your stuff.  Why so defensive?  Finally, who would you rather have Raymond or Andrew Olsen?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 10, 2008, 11:29:14 AM
Illinois Wesleyan played both Occidental and Wheaton (3 times) this year.  I'm very comfortable in saying Kent Raymond is the better player of the two - he's more complete. 

Whitman, a 2-guard, is primarily a 3-point shooter...and a deadly one at that (he lit IWU up, that's for sure).  While point-guard Raymond is a great shooter, he's also a terrific penetrator, a deadly mid-range jump shooter, and can even post up.  Raymond (6-3/195) is also a lot bigger than Whitman (6-1/170).  Physically, Raymond is a load for opposing guards. 

This year, 62% of Whitman's FGA were 3's...only 38% of Raymond's have been from beyond the arc through 27 games.  Whitman shot 101 FT's in 28 games this year...Raymond has attempted 183 in 27.  Two different players.

Kent Raymond and Connor Whitman were the two best guards I saw this year.  I'd say Raymond is a lock 1st Team All-American and Whitman is a 2nd/3rd teamer 2-guard.  Raymond just has more dimensions to his game than Whitman does. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 10, 2008, 11:29:14 AM
Illinois Wesleyan played both Occidental and Wheaton (3 times) this year.  I'm very comfortable in saying Kent Raymond is the better player of the two - he's more complete. 

Whitman, a 2-guard, is primarily a 3-point shooter...and a deadly one at that (he lit IWU up, that's for sure).  While point-guard Raymond is a great shooter, he's also a terrific penetrator, a deadly mid-range jump shooter, and can even post up.  Raymond (6-3/195) is also a lot bigger than Whitman (6-1/170).  Physically, Raymond is a load for opposing guards. 

This year, 62% of Whitman's FGA were 3's...only 38% of Raymond's have been from beyond the arc through 27 games.  Whitman shot 101 FT's in 28 games this year...Raymond has attempted 183 in 27.  Two different players.

Kent Raymond and Connor Whitman were the two best guards I saw this year.  I'd say Raymond is a lock 1st Team All-American and Whitman is a 2nd/3rd teamer 2-guard.  Raymond just has more dimensions to his game than Whitman does. 
Size matters.  We all know Raymond is the real deal and the biggest test we are likely to face in a backcourt player this season.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:51:19 PM
NWHoops, who do you think will be assigned the dubious job of stopping Raymond?  Williamson?  Naknamura?

Or maybe WW will have to play a lot more zone
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:58:28 PM
I never got to see Whitman play for Oxy this year sounds like he was a heck of a player. 

I do barely remember him playing for Oxy when they made the trip up to UPS in 2006.

Sounds like WW got his best and they still survived.  Lets hope they can do the same against Raymond and Wheaton.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:51:19 PM
NWHoops, who do you think will be assigned the dubious job of stopping Raymond?  Williamson?  Naknamura?

Or maybe WW will have to play a lot more zone
I think the zone is unlikely.  Raymond is good and WW coaches will make containing him their top objective.  To prepare for Wheaton defensively is to prepare for Oxy defensively.  If he is 10 points better than Whitman, Wheaton could very well win.  That being said, Wheaton has to prepare for us, too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 03:28:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 01:51:19 PM
NWHoops, who do you think will be assigned the dubious job of stopping Raymond?  Williamson?  Naknamura?

Or maybe WW will have to play a lot more zone
I think the zone is unlikely.  Raymond is good and WW coaches will make containing him their top objective.  To prepare for Wheaton defensively is to prepare for Oxy defensively.  If he is 10 points better than Whitman, Wheaton could very well win.  That being said, Wheaton has to prepare for us, too.

very true.

I agree about the zone...I suppose as long as WW stays out of foul trouble they can play man-to-man.  And they have done a very good job of that this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
I posted this in the Hope secontional board:


QuoteI am really looking forward to the battle between Symes and Wiele.  Symes is quick, crafty, and very athletic.  Wiele definately has size on Symes though, 6-5,  201lbs  compared to 6-8, 230.

Also it will be interesting to see who Williamson guards...and for that matter who can actually guard him!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 03:56:52 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
I posted this in the Hope secontional board:


QuoteI am really looking forward to the battle between Symes and Wiele.  Symes is quick, crafty, and very athletic.  Wiele definately has size on Symes though, 6-5,  201lbs  compared to 6-8, 230.

Also it will be interesting to see who Williamson guards...and for that matter who can actually guard him!
I seriously doubt Symes would be asked to guard him.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 03:58:44 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 03:56:52 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
I posted this in the Hope secontional board:


QuoteI am really looking forward to the battle between Symes and Wiele.  Symes is quick, crafty, and very athletic.  Wiele definately has size on Symes though, 6-5,  201lbs  compared to 6-8, 230.

Also it will be interesting to see who Williamson guards...and for that matter who can actually guard him!
I seriously doubt Symes would be asked to guard him.



No, but I could very well see Wheaton putting him on Symes
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:03:57 PM
But Symes is wiry and quick . . . you know, if you can't be big, be quick!  Oh wait, that's football!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 04:17:26 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 03:58:44 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 03:56:52 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
I posted this in the Hope secontional board:


QuoteI am really looking forward to the battle between Symes and Wiele.  Symes is quick, crafty, and very athletic.  Wiele definately has size on Symes though, 6-5,  201lbs  compared to 6-8, 230.

Also it will be interesting to see who Williamson guards...and for that matter who can actually guard him!
I seriously doubt Symes would be asked to guard him.



No, but I could very well see Wheaton putting him on Symes
As I mentioned on the Hope board...I would love that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2008, 04:19:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked.

I didn't go around with a clicker, but I'm pretty sure Wheaton had more than 100 fans in Whitewater...though I'm sure Whitewater is closer than the Netherlands.  ??? ::) :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked.

Are you serious?  Isn't Holland, MI less than 200 miles from Wheaton?  Whitworth fans travel farther than for a NWC game.  (Maybe Whitman is closer.)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked.

Are you serious?  Isn't Holland, MI less than 200 miles from Wheaton?  Whitworth fans travel farther than for a NWC game.  (Maybe Whitman is closer.)
If you have a nice big boat, it is even closer.  I think Wheaton will outnumber Whitworth but that wont matter cause the big number will be from Hope and they will be rooting for Whitworth cause we are the big underdog. ::)  Who doesn't love an underdog?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:47:50 PM
One thing -- the Pirates are used to noise, so maybe the crowd won't be a factor no matter who they're cheering for!

I think Whitworth will have a good parent/family turnout.  What about students?  Do you think many will go?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 04:53:09 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:47:50 PM
One thing -- the Pirates are used to noise, so maybe the crowd won't be a factor no matter who they're cheering for!

I think Whitworth will have a good parent/family turnout.  What about students?  Do you think many will go?
It is about $700 RT per person.  Parents yes, students (Holland, MI or Cancun for SB) NO.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:59:34 PM
Well, a friendly crowd is no substitute for preparation.  Besides, didn't Whitworth do really well at that tournament in NYC over Christmas?  Seems like they even beat the host.  I'm pretty sure they didn't have much of a crowd there either.

I just really want Whitworth to win over Wheaton.  Is everyone expecting Hope to win over Ohio Wesleyan or is that expected to be a contest as well?  Do you know?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 05:03:38 PM
Since I like to look ahead...assuming WW beats Wheaton, they will face either Hope or Ohio Wesylan.  Obviously WW wouldn't like to see Hope on their floor, but Ohio Wesylan has been playing very well lately.  I will be pulling for Ohio Wes...even though they are on a hot streak, they look like a better opponent then Hope.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 05:12:13 PM
Out of the four, only Hope is a top 25 ranked team.  Although, this year, I'm not sure you want to be in the Top 25 (14th week) because it probably means your season is OVER!

I was thinking that it would be better for Whitworth to play OWU, but wondered if they're on a hot streak.  Guess it's all speculation until they beat Wheaton.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: HopeConvert on March 10, 2008, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked.

Are you serious?  Isn't Holland, MI less than 200 miles from Wheaton?  Whitworth fans travel farther than for a NWC game.  (Maybe Whitman is closer.)
If you have a nice big boat, it is even closer.  I think Wheaton will outnumber Whitworth but that wont matter cause the big number will be from Hope and they will be rooting for Whitworth cause we are the big underdog. ::)  Who doesn't love an underdog?

More importantly, Hope and Whitworth have some connections to each other. They are both schools in the Reformed tradition. Gerald Sittser, well-know religion professor at Whitworth, is a Hope grad, and David Myers, well-known psychology professor at Hope (and regular attendee at basketball games), is a Whitworth grad.

Does every love an underdog?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0467110/ratings
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 06:51:01 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 10, 2008, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:49:56 PM
WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked.

Are you serious?  Isn't Holland, MI less than 200 miles from Wheaton?  Whitworth fans travel farther than for a NWC game.  (Maybe Whitman is closer.)
If you have a nice big boat, it is even closer.  I think Wheaton will outnumber Whitworth but that wont matter cause the big number will be from Hope and they will be rooting for Whitworth cause we are the big underdog. ::)  Who doesn't love an underdog?

More importantly, Hope and Whitworth have some connections to each other. They are both schools in the Reformed tradition. Gerald Sittser, well-know religion professor at Whitworth, is a Hope grad, and David Myers, well-known psychology professor at Hope (and regular attendee at basketball games), is a Whitworth grad.

Does every love an underdog?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0467110/ratings


Does everyone love an underdog?

Sports? definately yes
Movies? yes
Sports movies? yes
movies about a dog with that given name?  no
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 10, 2008, 06:55:14 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 10, 2008, 05:35:43 PM
........ and David Myers, well-known psychology professor at Hope (and regular attendee at basketball games), is a Whitworth grad.


I had completely forgotten that connection.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 10, 2008, 06:58:01 PM
As for taking sides, most Hope fans will sit there patiently waiting for the 2nd game.  You might get some ooo's and ahh's for good play but not much more.  It will very much be a neutral floor, there will just be 2-3000 looking on.

There are a surprising number of people in West Michigan with ties to Wheaton, I would actually be surprised if Wheaton had less than 100 people in attendance.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sbaum on March 10, 2008, 07:11:57 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 05:03:38 PM
Since I like to look ahead...assuming WW beats Wheaton, they will face either Hope or Ohio Wesylan.  Obviously WW wouldn't like to see Hope on their floor, but Ohio Wesylan has been playing very well lately.  I will be pulling for Ohio Wes...even though they are on a hot streak, they look like a better opponent then Hope.

If by better opponent, you mean easier, then I would agree. There is a reason that Hope is ranked #1 in the country. Since their last loss, which was against Albion 11 games ago, Hope has scored 883 points, or 88.3 points/game. They have held their opponents to 582 points, or 58.2 points/game. If you take out the Alma game, which Hope won 92-43, Hope has scored 791 points, or 87.8 points/game, while holding their opponents to 539 points, or 59.8 points/game. That's pretty hot, even including NCAA tournament games. Thats nearly a 30 point difference/game. So Hope is good, plus they have been extremely hot as of late. Yes, OWU will be a challenge, as will any team that Hope faces the rest of the way out (if we can make it past Friday). But I'll be watching the game Friday to see how Whitworth plays, and I hope to see a good game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 08:47:54 PM
That would be great if you could give us an eye witness account of the game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sbaum on March 10, 2008, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2008, 08:47:54 PM
That would be great if you could give us an eye witness account of the game!

What's a few hundred dollars to fly out to beautiful Holland, Michigan and see some great basketball? I'd recommend it! Then you wouldn't have to rely on my poor account! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:17:02 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 10:40:58 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 04:15:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:35:34 AMIf Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.

Oh, but it is, my man, it is. Kent Raymond can do what any other superstar guard can do on this level, Connor Whitman included. He's a shoo-in first-teamer on this year's d3hoops.com All-American team.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:45:07 AMWhitworth can be physical and will most likely deny the ball to Raymond in the half court.

You don't "deny the ball" to the man who is bringing it up the floor. You find a way to force it out of his hands, most likely through trapping double-teams. Raymond is a point guard -- a score-first point guard, but a point guard nonetheless.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:45:07 AMIf he gets it, he will most likely be facing a shot over a defender who is longer and taller than he is than a chance to penetrate and create.

Penetrating and creating is what Raymond does, and very few teams have stopped him from doing it -- and CCIW defenses take a backseat to nobody in D3. Raymond not only has a very quick first step, he has an uncanny knowledge of the game and the ability to read a defense's (and a specific opponent's) weaknesses very, very quickly. Don't casually declare that Whitworth will stop him from doing this or stop him from doing that before you've seen him play.
TOUCHY TOUCHY..I don't think I declared anything.  "Most likely" does not sound like a "we will shut him down."  Denying him in the "half court" was meant to say that if he does give up the ball, getting it back will be made difficult.  And no offense to CCIW teams or def. was implied or suggested.  Whitworth plays pretty good defense, when it wants or needs to.  Finally,  I said it wasn't possible because Whitman was out of his mind good for about 25 minutes and kept his team alive through sheer will and determination.  Not even directed at Raymond, who I KNOW is a point guard. 

Sager, I know you know your stuff.  Why so defensive?  Finally, who would you rather have Raymond or Andrew Olsen?

I'm not being touchy or defensive at all. Raymond doesn't play for my alma mater (in fact, he plays for my alma mater's archrival), so I have no vested interest in defending him. I'm simply warning you against the hubris that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year. Fans tend to get a little too stoked up about their own teams and they sometimes dismiss opponents sight unseen as a result.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:23:56 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:03:57 PM
But Symes is wiry and quick . . . you know, if you can't be big, be quick!  Oh wait, that's football!

If Symes is a quick big man, he could give Wiele a lot of trouble. Wiele's Achilles heel is his defense, particularly when he's asked to guard a quicker player who can either face up or play with his back to the basket.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 02:48:47 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:23:56 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:03:57 PM
But Symes is wiry and quick . . . you know, if you can't be big, be quick!  Oh wait, that's football!

If Symes is a quick big man, he could give Wiele a lot of trouble. Wiele's Achilles heel is his defense, particularly when he's asked to guard a quicker player who can either face up or play with his back to the basket.

The first chink in Wheaton's armor is exposed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2008, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:17:02 AM
I'm not being touchy or defensive at all. Raymond doesn't play for my alma mater (in fact, he plays for my alma mater's archrival), so I have no vested interest in defending him. I'm simply warning you against the hubris that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year. Fans tend to get a little too stoked up about their own teams and they sometimes dismiss opponents sight unseen as a result.
I will guard against the hubris (and the canabis, thank you Nancy Reagan) that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year.  Thanks for the "Just Say No" to over confidence and blind faith addiction.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2008, 10:42:58 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 02:48:47 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:23:56 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 10, 2008, 04:03:57 PM
But Symes is wiry and quick . . . you know, if you can't be big, be quick!  Oh wait, that's football!

If Symes is a quick big man, he could give Wiele a lot of trouble. Wiele's Achilles heel is his defense, particularly when he's asked to guard a quicker player who can either face up or play with his back to the basket.

The first chink in Wheaton's armor is exposed.
Once again, a clear indicator that Wiele will not be asked to guard the quickest forward in the NWC.  I am thinking that Montgomery will see more PT and we will have a true post on post battle.  Wiele would probably win the stat sheet battle but Nate has the body and skills to keep this guy off the O boards.  Lets say we keep Raymond and Wiele below 50 points collectively, do we win? 40?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 12:46:42 PM
So do you think Jurich is out and Montgomery is in?

Not in the sense of starting, but in terms of mins played?

If that's the case, and even though WW doesn't play at a lightning pace...do you think his conditioning will hold up?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 12:57:24 PM
I am also curious on who will match up against Raymond.  The most likely choices seem to be Nakamura or Williamson.   I would like having Williamson on him because of his size and that fact that he moves so well.  And spelling him with Nakamura so he doesn't wear down.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 01:12:35 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 09, 2008, 03:47:19 PM
I'm happy for Whitworth and our conference Logshow and I hope they keep going, but you know I'm already looking forward to next year!!

After seeing UPS at Pacific early in the year, I still go away saying Williams and Foster (along with Symes) are probably the two most gifted players in the league, just a different type of player and athlete, and then you throw in Krauel, and they will be losing a TON after next season and I just wasn't as sure about the younger guys on the team, if they can match that.  And they've been 11-5 the last two years WITH those 3, do they get better, stay the same, get worse?  Just food for thought.





Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:48:07 PM
let me chew on that one for a bit...

Logshow, you still chewing??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 03:56:36 PM
Yes OxyBob, Krauel is very good, those three are as good as a trio that I've seen in this league.  He's masquerading as a 6th man, says a lot about that kid being willing to come off the bench when he could easily start, and star, for any team in this conference, including his own.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 04:41:15 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 01:12:35 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 09, 2008, 03:47:19 PM
I'm happy for Whitworth and our conference Logshow and I hope they keep going, but you know I'm already looking forward to next year!!

After seeing UPS at Pacific early in the year, I still go away saying Williams and Foster (along with Symes) are probably the two most gifted players in the league, just a different type of player and athlete, and then you throw in Krauel, and they will be losing a TON after next season and I just wasn't as sure about the younger guys on the team, if they can match that.  And they've been 11-5 the last two years WITH those 3, do they get better, stay the same, get worse?  Just food for thought.





Quote from: LogShow on March 09, 2008, 03:48:07 PM
let me chew on that one for a bit...

Logshow, you still chewing??

Alright all finished...that was some tough steak!


In a sense I am a bit worried about UPS.  It is a bit confusing and difficult to understand why the true potential of this logger team has not come to fruition.  What has this group of soon to be seniors accomplished at UPS in their 3 years?  

They have won a conference title and made it to the elite 8 their freshman year.  Granted that Williams and Foster both started and played a significant amount of mins, but that team was driven by McVey, Curtiss, along with a much less talented goup(one without any Jrs on the roster).  They just rode the coat tails.  With that great experience as freshman, one would think that class would be polished and have a lot of court savvy.  Yet in each of the past two seasons the loggers have floundered in the second round of league finishing with a .500 record and 11-5 overall in league.  It is a bit concerning since UPS has tons of talent.  

Foster and Williams are probably 2 of the top 4 players in the league, with Kraul not far behind.  But talent doesn't equate to success.  Overall the two things that stick out most are the lack of defense and rebounding.  UPS seemed to vamp down their pressure and pressing this year, but still got out of position leading to easy penetration, allowing  teams to shoot way too high a %.  Rebounding as a whole was ok, but it seemed like every critical posession wheter it be in the 1st or 2nd half wasn't secured.

As far as the younger players...I am not too sure, but I would expect them to step up and contribute.  Most of the younger players didn't see much time except Boyce and Koach, so its tough to judge.  I thought Gehring looked pretty good the few times he got in, being very aggressive and putting the ball in the hoop, and Wright might have some potential as a shot blocker.  Levine knocked down a few 3's.

It kind of seems like UPS is at a crossroad.  And next year will have a huge impact on what way they go.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 05:26:09 PM
Thanks Logshow, that's a great analysis, very objective too, impressive especially knowing you bleed the maroon (or is it brown?).  I couldn't come close to breaking down my Boxers like that (other than your Loggers owned them this year).  Didn't even realize they were 4-4 during the second round of league this year, as well as last year, throw in 1-2 in the NWC playoffs and there sub .500 after the turn, very surprising.  A crossroads may be right, Lunt seems like a bright young coach, so them coming out of it positively is likely. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 06:07:09 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 05:26:09 PM
Thanks Logshow, that's a great analysis, very objective too, impressive especially knowing you bleed the maroon (or is it brown?).  I couldn't come close to breaking down my Boxers like that (other than your Loggers owned them this year).  Didn't even realize they were 4-4 during the second round of league this year, as well as last year, throw in 1-2 in the NWC playoffs and there sub .500 after the turn, very surprising.  A crossroads may be right, Lunt seems like a bright young coach, so them coming out of it positively is likely. 

I almost wish I bled Brown and Gold :)...that way I could say "we deliever" but unfortunately the Logs haven't the past two years. 

Last year was understandable, they were a very young team and those things happen, you don't like to see them...but they do happen.  This year was tough to stomach, since this team returned everyone and should have some great experience and court savvy.  Like I said next year will be huge for those soon to be senior's "legacy"


I am of course partial to UPS and will always support and pull for them...but I feel like its important to take an objective look at things.  Especially when things haven't been going UPS' way.  Its easy to get caught up in the hype, but there needs to be a little substance for proof. 

I have every confidence that Lunt will get the Loggers back on track.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 06:08:59 PM
Also NWCer,

You are almost to starter status...keep up the good posts!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
Logs, I think you're being too hard on your team.  UPS dominated for a couple of years (with Bridgeland as their coach) but NWC is an extremely competitive conference, where on any given night, any team can win.   I might be mistaken, but didn't the Loggers have some pretty close contests?

Remember, this year we had Whitworth at 1st, UPS at 2nd and four teams tied for 3rd place -- not an easy win on any night!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 09:03:04 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
Logs, I think you're being too hard on your team.  UPS dominated for a couple of years (with Bridgeland as their coach) but NWC is an extremely competitive conference, where on any given night, any team can win.   I might be mistaken, but didn't the Loggers have some pretty close contests?

Remember, this year we had Whitworth at 1st, UPS at 2nd and four teams tied for 3rd place -- not an easy win on any night!

Maybe, that could very well be.  My response would be: with success comes expectations.  Each time UPS won the league the expectations of them increased.  I would admit that the bar is set very high for them...But that's the causation of a successful program.

I would have to agree that is definately is much more parody in the NWC this year.  Not really sure why.  Maybe all the other teams have just started recuriting better players like WW and UPS.  I like it though...makes for an interesting league.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 11, 2008, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 09:03:04 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
Logs, I think you're being too hard on your team.  UPS dominated for a couple of years (with Bridgeland as their coach) but NWC is an extremely competitive conference, where on any given night, any team can win.   I might be mistaken, but didn't the Loggers have some pretty close contests?

Remember, this year we had Whitworth at 1st, UPS at 2nd and four teams tied for 3rd place -- not an easy win on any night!

Maybe, that could very well be.  My response would be: with success comes expectations.  Each time UPS won the league the expectations of them increased.  I would admit that the bar is set very high for them...But that's the causation of a successful program.

I would have to agree that is definately is much more parody in the NWC this year.  Not really sure why.  Maybe all the other teams have just started recuriting better players like WW and UPS.  I like it though...makes for an interesting league.



LogShow I have nothing but respect for you...but http://www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Pio20,

Not wishing to be a 'parody' of your post,  but you could correct 'definitely' without even noticing the substitute for 'parity'?! ::)

Apologies to you both for being a pedant. ;D :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 10:51:24 PM
I wondered why Pio was being selective about his spelling correction, but I thought it was fashionable when texting or messaging to use shortened words and wrong spellings.

Anyway Logs, we knew what you meant!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 10:52:40 PM
We really need something new to talk about. . . So, is Whitworth going to win over Wheaton?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 11:08:25 PM
Definite is one of those tough ones.........  Along with receive (i before e except after c) and Wednesday, I'm just glad microsoft word finishes that day for me as soon as I hit W-E-D........

Got your back Logs.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 11:09:22 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 10:52:40 PM
We really need something new to talk about. . . So, is Whitworth going to win over Wheaton?

Yes!!!  Let's go NWC, two trips to the Elite 8 in three years for our conference would be huge...........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 11, 2008, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Pio20,

Not wishing to be a 'parody' of your post,  but you could correct 'definitely' without even noticing the substitute for 'parity'?! ::)

Apologies to you both for being a pedant. ;D :)

ooh I didn't even see that. Misspelled words don't bother me that much really. I'm no English major. Just poking a little fun at Logs.  ;D

But yes I think a win over Wheaton would be big. I feel like one West team winning over another West team doesn't do much for the West's reputation. But with every win over an East team (or close enough) we gain a little more respect.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 11, 2008, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Pio20,

Not wishing to be a 'parody' of your post,  but you could correct 'definitely' without even noticing the substitute for 'parity'?! ::)

Apologies to you both for being a pedant. ;D :)

ooh I didn't even see that. Misspelled words don't bother me that much really. I'm no English major. Just poking a little fun at Logs.  ;D

But yes I think a win over Wheaton would be big. I feel like one West team winning over another West team doesn't do much for the West's reputation. But with every win over an East team (or close enough) we gain a little more respect.

Agreed, let's get it done
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 12:05:17 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 11, 2008, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 11, 2008, 09:03:04 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
Logs, I think you're being too hard on your team.  UPS dominated for a couple of years (with Bridgeland as their coach) but NWC is an extremely competitive conference, where on any given night, any team can win.   I might be mistaken, but didn't the Loggers have some pretty close contests?

Remember, this year we had Whitworth at 1st, UPS at 2nd and four teams tied for 3rd place -- not an easy win on any night!

Maybe, that could very well be.  My response would be: with success comes expectations.  Each time UPS won the league the expectations of them increased.  I would admit that the bar is set very high for them...But that's the causation of a successful program.

I would have to agree that is definately is much more parody in the NWC this year.  Not really sure why.  Maybe all the other teams have just started recuriting better players like WW and UPS.  I like it though...makes for an interesting league.



LogShow I have nothing but respect for you...but http://www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/  :D

The mind moves faster then the hand ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 12:05:49 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Pio20,

Not wishing to be a 'parody' of your post,  but you could correct 'definitely' without even noticing the substitute for 'parity'?! ::)

Apologies to you both for being a pedant. ;D :)


My editor is out of town
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 12:20:24 AM
Quote from: NWCer on March 11, 2008, 11:08:25 PM
Definite is one of those tough ones.........  Along with receive (i before e except after c) and Wednesday, I'm just glad microsoft word finishes that day for me as soon as I hit W-E-D........

Got your back Logs.....

That's why your my boy!  :)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 12:21:44 AM

Time for today's totally unrelated to basketball post...

Last thing on grammar:

darn do-gooders deem defintly deplorable...definately defiant, don't duck detractors
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2008, 01:42:59 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2008, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:17:02 AM
I'm not being touchy or defensive at all. Raymond doesn't play for my alma mater (in fact, he plays for my alma mater's archrival), so I have no vested interest in defending him. I'm simply warning you against the hubris that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year. Fans tend to get a little too stoked up about their own teams and they sometimes dismiss opponents sight unseen as a result.
I will guard against the hubris (and the canabis, thank you Nancy Reagan) that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year.  Thanks for the "Just Say No" to over confidence and blind faith addiction.

I'd change my icon ...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fboingboing.net%2Fimages%2Fnancyreagancouch.jpg&hash=3e07abc4e21cacf6ea7516a2784f08f444df88d4)

... but I'm afraid that I'd have to waste too much time constantly explaining myself on various boards.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2008, 01:47:25 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 11, 2008, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Pio20,

Not wishing to be a 'parody' of your post,  but you could correct 'definitely' without even noticing the substitute for 'parity'?! ::)

Apologies to you both for being a pedant. ;D :)

ooh I didn't even see that. Misspelled words don't bother me that much really. I'm no English major. Just poking a little fun at Logs.  ;D

But yes I think a win over Wheaton would be big. I feel like one West team winning over another West team doesn't do much for the West's reputation. But with every win over an East team (or close enough) we gain a little more respect.

"East"? Wheaton is in the Midwest Region of D3 men's basketball, and the midwestern region of the country. The closest route to the Atlantic Ocean from Wheaton is 850 miles. Never mind the spelling; what's needed in this room is a geography lesson. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: matblake on March 12, 2008, 10:41:29 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2008, 01:42:59 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2008, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:17:02 AM
I'm not being touchy or defensive at all. Raymond doesn't play for my alma mater (in fact, he plays for my alma mater's archrival), so I have no vested interest in defending him. I'm simply warning you against the hubris that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year. Fans tend to get a little too stoked up about their own teams and they sometimes dismiss opponents sight unseen as a result.
I will guard against the hubris (and the canabis, thank you Nancy Reagan) that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year.  Thanks for the "Just Say No" to over confidence and blind faith addiction.

I'd change my icon ...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fboingboing.net%2Fimages%2Fnancyreagancouch.jpg&hash=3e07abc4e21cacf6ea7516a2784f08f444df88d4)

... but I'm afraid that I'd have to waste too much time constantly explaining myself on various boards.

Lucy, you got some 'splaining to do.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatexpectations07.com%2Ffiles%2Fimage%2Fcu1satullo22a.JPG&hash=f97c7e1c082679b15a744f363376b438e6bbe57e)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2008, 11:36:33 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 11, 2008, 10:52:40 PM
We really need something new to talk about. . . So, is Whitworth going to win over Wheaton?
Yes.  I would be surprised if Colin wasn't asked to guard Raymond.  Guarding Whitman last week was a good lesson in what it takes.  The 2nd half adjustments he made worked in containing him for the 1st tem minutes of the second half.  If he can guard like that all game, we might be able to keep Raymond below 25 pts.  Jurich is not out.  No reason to think that.  He can contribute and will.  Having Nate back, just gives us a very nice, very big option available.  It probably comes down to who is playing more confidently between the two.  Winner gets more PT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2008, 11:42:48 AM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2008, 01:42:59 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2008, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:17:02 AM
I'm not being touchy or defensive at all. Raymond doesn't play for my alma mater (in fact, he plays for my alma mater's archrival), so I have no vested interest in defending him. I'm simply warning you against the hubris that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year. Fans tend to get a little too stoked up about their own teams and they sometimes dismiss opponents sight unseen as a result.
I will guard against the hubris (and the canabis, thank you Nancy Reagan) that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year.  Thanks for the "Just Say No" to over confidence and blind faith addiction.

I'd change my icon ...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fboingboing.net%2Fimages%2Fnancyreagancouch.jpg&hash=3e07abc4e21cacf6ea7516a2784f08f444df88d4)

... but I'm afraid that I'd have to waste too much time constantly explaining myself on various boards.

I just updated my screensaver and desktop.  Now I realize the truth to why RR's brain went sideways.  Thanks Sager.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 12, 2008, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2008, 01:47:25 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 11, 2008, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Pio20,

Not wishing to be a 'parody' of your post,  but you could correct 'definitely' without even noticing the substitute for 'parity'?! ::)

Apologies to you both for being a pedant. ;D :)

ooh I didn't even see that. Misspelled words don't bother me that much really. I'm no English major. Just poking a little fun at Logs.  ;D

But yes I think a win over Wheaton would be big. I feel like one West team winning over another West team doesn't do much for the West's reputation. But with every win over an East team (or close enough) we gain a little more respect.

"East"? Wheaton is in the Midwest Region of D3 men's basketball, and the midwestern region of the country. The closest route to the Atlantic Ocean from Wheaton is 850 miles. Never mind the spelling; what's needed in this room is a geography lesson. ;)

Well that's why I said "close enough." There might as well be a DIII ocean between Cali/Oregon/Washington and Minnesota/Iowa/Wisconsin  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2008, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 12, 2008, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2008, 01:47:25 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 11, 2008, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Pio20,

Not wishing to be a 'parody' of your post,  but you could correct 'definitely' without even noticing the substitute for 'parity'?! ::)

Apologies to you both for being a pedant. ;D :)

ooh I didn't even see that. Misspelled words don't bother me that much really. I'm no English major. Just poking a little fun at Logs.  ;D

But yes I think a win over Wheaton would be big. I feel like one West team winning over another West team doesn't do much for the West's reputation. But with every win over an East team (or close enough) we gain a little more respect.

"East"? Wheaton is in the Midwest Region of D3 men's basketball, and the midwestern region of the country. The closest route to the Atlantic Ocean from Wheaton is 850 miles. Never mind the spelling; what's needed in this room is a geography lesson. ;)

Well that's why I said "close enough." There might as well be a DIII ocean between Cali/Oregon/Washington and Minnesota/Iowa/Wisconsin  :)

And only a short time ago (geologically speaking) there was! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 12, 2008, 07:03:38 PM
Wow, Mr. Ypsi, are you THAT old?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2008, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 12, 2008, 07:03:38 PM
Wow, Mr. Ypsi, are you THAT old?

Some days, YES. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 12, 2008, 09:13:22 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean.  Especially the knees!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 09:27:16 PM
NWhoops,  did WW leave today?

I think it would be good to get over there and get used to the time difference, and be able to practice/shoot around in Hope's fieldhouse to get comfortable.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 12, 2008, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 09:27:16 PM
NWhoops,  did WW leave today?

I think it would be good to get over there and get used to the time difference, and be able to practice/shoot around in Hope's fieldhouse to get comfortable.

Whitworth arrived in Holland around 4:30 local time, no word about whether they've been in DeVos but obviously they get a day to acclimate themselves to the time zone.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 09:27:16 PM
NWhoops,  did WW leave today?

I think it would be good to get over there and get used to the time difference, and be able to practice/shoot around in Hope's fieldhouse to get comfortable.

Whitworth arrived in Holland around 4:30 local time, no word about whether they've been in DeVos but obviously they get a day to acclimate themselves to the time zone.

Thanks for the update Sac!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2008, 11:29:10 PM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 09:27:16 PM
NWhoops,  did WW leave today?

I think it would be good to get over there and get used to the time difference, and be able to practice/shoot around in Hope's fieldhouse to get comfortable.

Whitworth arrived in Holland around 4:30 local time, no word about whether they've been in DeVos but obviously they get a day to acclimate themselves to the time zone.
PIRATES IN HOLLAND!  ISN'T THAT VEIRD?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2008, 12:32:09 AM
Quote from: matblake on March 12, 2008, 10:41:29 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2008, 01:42:59 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2008, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2008, 01:17:02 AM
I'm not being touchy or defensive at all. Raymond doesn't play for my alma mater (in fact, he plays for my alma mater's archrival), so I have no vested interest in defending him. I'm simply warning you against the hubris that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year. Fans tend to get a little too stoked up about their own teams and they sometimes dismiss opponents sight unseen as a result.
I will guard against the hubris (and the canabis, thank you Nancy Reagan) that seems to be typical of D3 fans at this time of year.  Thanks for the "Just Say No" to over confidence and blind faith addiction.

I'd change my icon ...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fboingboing.net%2Fimages%2Fnancyreagancouch.jpg&hash=3e07abc4e21cacf6ea7516a2784f08f444df88d4)

... but I'm afraid that I'd have to waste too much time constantly explaining myself on various boards.

Lucy, you got some 'splaining to do.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatexpectations07.com%2Ffiles%2Fimage%2Fcu1satullo22a.JPG&hash=f97c7e1c082679b15a744f363376b438e6bbe57e)

Are you unpoopular?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagecache2.allposters.com%2Fimages%2FCLASS%2F130-120.jpg&hash=5755165ef265386ba6dee2c1e3943c1600ebc75d)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 13, 2008, 12:37:35 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2008, 11:29:10 PM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 12, 2008, 09:27:16 PM
NWhoops,  did WW leave today?

I think it would be good to get over there and get used to the time difference, and be able to practice/shoot around in Hope's fieldhouse to get comfortable.

Whitworth arrived in Holland around 4:30 local time, no word about whether they've been in DeVos but obviously they get a day to acclimate themselves to the time zone.
PIRATES IN HOLLAND!  ISN'T THAT VEIRD?

Not that weird, we've had our own brush with Pirates right here in the 21st Century.  An excerpt.......

"In spring of 2004, The American Pirate Association took their small town by storm. It was during the annual Tulip Time Kinder Parade in Holland, Michigan, that this small group of teens dressed up as pirates and entered the parade lineup without a permit (oh, the humanity.) The crowd cheered them on, but it wasn't long before the police escorted them off the premises and fined them $100 apiece ... The members of the American Pirate Association opted to hold a carwash fundraiser, again dressed as pirates. Members from all over the community came to show their support, many making donations without even getting their cars washed, some dressing as pirates themselves. At the end of the day, enough money was raised to pay all fines, with cash leftover to make a contribution to the Boys and Girls Club ... In a move of both wit and class, the American Pirate Association kept just enough money to make one last charitable donation, this one in the form of purchasing a brick for the new Holland Police Station - the very same precinct that had pulled them from the parade in the first place. And this brick will forever be engraved "American Pirate Association". [update: in a tragic display of poor sportsmanship, the Holland Police Department has declined to accept the donation.]"

The best part was they entered the parade after the Macatawa Bank float and chased it down the street.  Good times by all, except the Mayor, the parade committee and the Holland Police Department who have little sense of humor when it comes to tulips, parades and shenanigans around such.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 12:38:15 AM
NWhoops,

I got to tell ya...

Those Goldmember, Holland, Dutch references will never get old!  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 12:38:15 AM
NWhoops,

I got to tell ya...

Those Goldmember, Holland, Dutch references will never get old!  :D
apparently you are in the minority..my k keeps getting dinked.... :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 12:53:50 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 12:38:15 AM
NWhoops,

I got to tell ya...

Those Goldmember, Holland, Dutch references will never get old!  :D
apparently you are in the minority..my k keeps getting dinked.... :o

Yeah mine too...I have been hovering at 72 forever! lol.

Anyway heres +k for you because I have enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2008, 03:04:54 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 01:54:22 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 12:38:15 AM
NWhoops,

I got to tell ya...

Those Goldmember, Holland, Dutch references will never get old!  :D
apparently you are in the minority..my k keeps getting dinked.... :o

Could be all the ALL CAPS POSTS from earlier.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 13, 2008, 03:36:00 PM
No, I think someone is dinking the karma of the NWC posters because I haven't said anything and mine went down as well.

Go Pirates -- beat Wheaton!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 13, 2008, 03:49:44 PM
So, since there's not much to talk about until Friday, I really want to know when the keeper of the NWC site is going to change the Men's basketball standings to show Willamette in 3rd place.  They did win the tiebreaker -- they did play in the Conference playoffs and it only seems right to put them ahead of the other 3 teams that tied with them for 3rd.  That sounds so weird -- to have 4 teams in a conference of 9 tie for 3rd.   Guess it's just a reflection of what butt kickin conference we had this year.

It's just the accurate thing to do!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 09:21:44 PM
Yeah, I would say that 4 teams tied for 3rd place is pretty rare.  It's pretty crazy that UPS still got 2nd place with 5 conference losses.  It was a good year in the NWC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 09:24:35 PM
All the talking is almost done...the countdown begins, less then 24 hours till tip! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 03:27:16 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 13, 2008, 03:49:44 PM
So, since there's not much to talk about until Friday, I really want to know when the keeper of the NWC site is going to change the Men's basketball standings to show Willamette in 3rd place.  They did win the tiebreaker -- they did play in the Conference playoffs and it only seems right to put them ahead of the other 3 teams that tied with them for 3rd.  That sounds so weird -- to have 4 teams in a conference of 9 tie for 3rd.   Guess it's just a reflection of what butt kickin conference we had this year.

It's just the accurate thing to do!

They're doing one of two things, going in alphabetical order, or by overall record, either way, doesn't make much difference, yeah they won the tie breaker to see who GOES to the NWC tourney, but nevertheless all 4 are tied for 3rd place, so it doesn't matter what order they're in.  Just like LC and Whitworth last year, they were co-champs, the tiebreaker is only there for tournament seeding purposes...........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 03:32:06 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 13, 2008, 03:49:44 PM
So, since there's not much to talk about until Friday, I really want to know when the keeper of the NWC site is going to change the Men's basketball standings to show Willamette in 3rd place.  They did win the tiebreaker -- they did play in the Conference playoffs and it only seems right to put them ahead of the other 3 teams that tied with them for 3rd.  That sounds so weird -- to have 4 teams in a conference of 9 tie for 3rd.   Guess it's just a reflection of what butt kickin conference we had this year.

It's just the accurate thing to do!

The old D3Hoops has the same thing.............

http://d3hoops.com/conference/NWC/mens

If it makes you feel better, here you go


Whitworth
Puget Sound
Willamette
The other 3.........
Pacific Lutheran
George Fox
Whitman

Have a good night ;D :D :) ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 14, 2008, 12:55:48 PM

"They're doing one of two things, going in alphabetical order, or by overall record"

Their alphabetical order coincides with their overall records! What are the chances!?

Lewis and Clark  9-7     0.562       15-9    0.625 
Linfield            9-7    0.562    14-11    0.560    
Pacific            9-7     0.562    11-14    0.440
Willamette        9-7    0.562    11-15   0.423    
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
THANKS!  Would have hated to have to ask. ;D :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
THANKS!  Would have hated to have to ask. ;D :P

And Bob Castle will be announcing the Whitworth/Wheaton game.  Link on the Whitworth site.

NWCer -- don't know why you're being so snotty.  I just want the keeper of the NWC site to do his job and put Willamette in 3rd place.  They had to play UPS for a 3rd time to earn it.  Don't care how they rank the rest of them, but WU did win the tie breaker of the 4 that tied.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:18:41 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 14, 2008, 12:55:48 PM

"They're doing one of two things, going in alphabetical order, or by overall record"

Their alphabetical order coincides with their overall records! What are the chances!?

Lewis and Clark  9-7     0.562       15-9    0.625 
Linfield            9-7    0.562    14-11    0.560    
Pacific            9-7     0.562    11-14    0.440
Willamette        9-7    0.562    11-15   0.423    

Nice observation :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 02:20:08 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
NWCer -- don't know why you're being so snotty.  I just want the keeper of the NWC site to do his job and put Willamette in 3rd place.  They had to play UPS for a 3rd time to earn it.  Don't care how they rank the rest of them, but WU did win the tie breaker of the 4 that tied.
Do you have his job description handy?  I doubt it indicates - Keep standings of teams in order of fan preference.

You do realize you are talking about third place, never much to brag about outside of the Olympics.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
THANKS!  Would have hated to have to ask. ;D :P

And Bob Castle will be announcing the Whitworth/Wheaton game.  Link on the Whitworth site.

NWCer -- don't know why you're being so snotty.  I just want the keeper of the NWC site to do his job and put Willamette in 3rd place.  They had to play UPS for a 3rd time to earn it.  Don't care how they rank the rest of them, but WU did win the tie breaker of the 4 that tied.


I didn't think NWCer was being snotty at all!  There actaually isn't a keeper of the NWC, or the NWC website.  In fact I think that the NWC website is maintained by the WW SID.  So, #1 he has a few more important things he is working on.  And #2 That's a small thing to nitpick about.  Yes they won the tiebreaker, but that doesn't mean they finished 3a instead of 3d.  They finished 3rd with the other 3 teams, and were fortunate enough to get to move on for the playoffs.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:35:16 PM
NWhoops, wanted to be sure on gametime.

Game tips at 5:00 MST so that would be 3:00 in the west.  Right!? :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 02:47:14 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
THANKS!  Would have hated to have to ask. ;D :P

And Bob Castle will be announcing the Whitworth/Wheaton game.  Link on the Whitworth site.

NWCer -- don't know why you're being so snotty.  I just want the keeper of the NWC site to do his job and put Willamette in 3rd place.  They had to play UPS for a 3rd time to earn it.  Don't care how they rank the rest of them, but WU did win the tie breaker of the 4 that tied.

Snotty?  They are listed in 3rd, along with all the other 3rd place teams......  Get over it.

Can't remember the last time I've heard someone insult another as "snotty", just seems so - well, snotty......

Let's go Bucs, represent!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:35:16 PM
NWhoops, wanted to be sure on gametime.

Game tips at 5:00 MST so that would be 3:00 in the west.  Right!? :)
Coleman would say check the front page ::) ;D...I will answer the question.

Yes, the game tips at 6 Eastern, 5 Local, 3 Pacific.

http://www.d3hoops.com/schedule/mens/2008-03-14

Go Bucs
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
BBadict, at the bottom of the NWC web page it states: 

"This site is maintained by Steve Flegel, NWC SID"

I see that this is the Whitworth SID as well.  He's probably the one you want to get a hold of to tell him to "do his job", although he may be a little busy with important things like covering his men's team in the round of 16 at the NCAA Division III National Tournament, so forgive him if he comes off "snotty"  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:02:35 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:35:16 PM
NWhoops, wanted to be sure on gametime.

Game tips at 5:00 MST so that would be 3:00 in the west.  Right!? :)
Coleman would say check the front page ::) ;D...I will answer the question.

Yes, the game tips at 6 Eastern, 5 Local, 3 Pacific.

http://www.d3hoops.com/schedule/mens/2008-03-14

Go Bucs

Well I know what he would say that, but...

I also know that you love talking about WW and wouldn't mind answering the question, or any question pertaining to WW, WW hoops, WW players, and their game tonight.

Play along a little bit :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:03:47 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
BBadict, at the bottom of the NWC web page it states: 

"This site is maintained by Steve Flegel, NWC SID"

I see that this is the Whitworth SID as well.  He's probably the one you want to get a hold of to tell him to "do his job", although he may be a little busy with important things like covering his men's team in the round of 16 at the NCAA Division III National Tournament, so forgive him if he comes off "snotty"   ;) :D ;D


It because Spokane is so cold...That weather just makes your nose run!! :D :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:14:06 PM
Well I figure someone has to post the updates so here is goes :)


WW and Wheaton are tied up at 13 with 10 mins and change to go
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:18:55 PM
Uh-oh Raymond is starting to heat up...back to back 3's and scoring 13 of first 19 points for Wheaton
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:25:45 PM
WW down 6 with 5 to go
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:35:35 PM
Wheaton had stretched the lead to 10, but WW finished the half strong to close the deficit to 5. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
BBadict, at the bottom of the NWC web page it states: 

"This site is maintained by Steve Flegel, NWC SID"

I see that this is the Whitworth SID as well.  He's probably the one you want to get a hold of to tell him to "do his job", although he may be a little busy with important things like covering his men's team in the round of 16 at the NCAA Division III National Tournament, so forgive him if he comes off "snotty"  ;) :D ;D

Actually NWCer I was calling YOU snotty!  I know who maintains the site.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 06:37:25 PM
Hey Logs, can you get the Bob Castle webcast to work?  I can't for some reason. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:42:28 PM
yeah.  Go to the front page of D3 Hoops and on click on the first "A"   That gave me Castle's broadcast
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:45:03 PM
Some interesting stats from Castle at the half:

Symes was held to 5 points and didn't get his first points until 2 mins left in the half.

Raymond has 17 in the first period.

WW hasn't missed a freethrow for the entire tournament!  I think they are like 27-27.  Now that's very impressive!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:47:26 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 06:37:25 PM
Hey Logs, can you get the Bob Castle webcast to work?  I can't for some reason. 

Did you get it to work?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:50:30 PM
First possesion of the 2nd half...Raymond 3

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:55:12 PM
Symes is starting to heat up...scored 3 straight possesions

Wheaton up 10 early in the second half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:05:13 PM
At the first media TO.  Wheaton 51-WW 43
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:07:47 PM
The announcer keeps calling Symes "Tymes".  I wonder if his roster has a typo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:08:22 PM
Otherwise, he's pretty good.  Can't connect to Castle's broadcast.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:09:07 PM
Oh thats too bad, Castle is great!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:13:24 PM
WW has the lead cut to 4, but Raymond pushed it back to 10
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:15:17 PM
Pretty close game.  Whitworth needs to step it up though.  Announcer got Symes name right -- apologized for it.  He's a pretty good announcer.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:16:20 PM
2 3-point plays by WW pulls them back to within 4 with 5:30 to go
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:16:55 PM
Wow!  Symes will not let WW lose!  Hits a 3 to pull WW to within 1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:18:25 PM
Go BUCS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:19:07 PM
Raymond and Symes are single handedly leading their teams

I wish I could be there watching this game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2008, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:15:17 PM
Pretty close game.  Whitworth needs to step it up though.  Announcer got Symes name right -- apologized for it.  He's a pretty good announcer.

It's Jeff Febus, the Calvin SID. He called Calvin's games on the radio when the Knights won their first D3 title in '92, back when Febus was a Calvin student.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:22:07 PM
He's pretty fair -- nothing worse than one-sided announcing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:22:34 PM
Lead back to 11 for Wheaton.  Raymond is undoubtedly a 1st team All-American.  He is hitting shots from all over the floor, with 7 3-pointers.  Very impressive.

Think he has 40,  Symes has 25
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:23:06 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:22:07 PM
He's pretty fair -- nothing worse than one-sided announcing.

Lol,  have you every listened to the G. Fox broadcasts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:23:25 PM
Up 11 now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 07:23:59 PM
Keep the updates coming, let's go Bucs!

Snotty people whine about a team tied for third having their name on a web page listed 1st......

Funny, your first post indicated you didn't know who kept the site and that they should do their job, but now I'm just snotty and you know who runs it...........  Get over it bearcat

Let's go NWC!  Bring us home Symes
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:23:06 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:22:07 PM
He's pretty fair -- nothing worse than one-sided announcing.

Lol,  have you every listened to the G. Fox broadcasts?

No, but I've been to games there!  Same!  The GFU are giving the Hope women a game.  Down by 1.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:25:20 PM
Symes is trying...he won't let WW die!  I hope they have a little magic let!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2008, 07:27:00 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:35:34 AM
If Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.

Are you ready to re-evaluate that statement yet? ;) :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:27:58 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2008, 07:27:00 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2008, 02:35:34 AM
If Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.

Are you ready to re-evaluate that statement yet? ;) :D

It has truly been the entire game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:30:24 PM
Looking bleak for WW  :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:31:24 PM
That's what I was going to say.  I kind of think this one is over for Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 14, 2008, 07:33:01 PM
Hopefully a few teams reload and I get a chance to catch some games next season. Still would like to see a MIAA/NWC challenge tournament. Maybe someday...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 07:34:04 PM
Too bad, nice year Whitworth, one round further than last year for the NWC, hopefully next year we can get a team back to the round of 8 and further..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:35:19 PM
Or maybe someone else from the NWC could represent!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:36:08 PM
Wow what a preformance by Raymond...leaves the game with 47 points.  Pretty amazing.

Symes put up a heck of an effort finishes with 29 points
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 07:37:17 PM
Well that wraps up the NWC season.  WW had a good run...to bad.  They ran into a tough Wheaton team.  They fought hard but Raymond just had too much firepower.

Congrats on the season WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:38:09 PM
I guess people will stop wondering if Wheaton should have gotten a Pool C bid?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 07:35:19 PM
Or maybe someone else from the NWC could represent!

Wouldn't be oppossed to that....  the way the conferences' play is collectively rising, could be the case.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 14, 2008, 07:41:44 PM
Wow, the Wheaton kid had 47?  In a tourney game?  Against a defense like Whitworth?  Amazing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:14:06 PM
Well I figure someone has to post the updates so here is goes :)


WW and Wheaton are tied up at 13 with 10 mins and change to go
Why didn't you bozos use the update page?  Dang I will hate everyone named Kent from now til I die.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 08:46:20 PM
Sorry nwhoops.  Really sorry that Whitworth didn't win.  Sounded like a close game, but the guy who scored 47 points kind of took over!  Good show for the Pirates, though, making it to the Sweet 16.  Next year for the NWC.    Right now, I'm switching over to D-1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:14:06 PM
Well I figure someone has to post the updates so here is goes :)


WW and Wheaton are tied up at 13 with 10 mins and change to go
Why didn't you bozos use the update page?  Dang I will hate everyone named Kent from now til I die.


My bad...forgot about the updates page, oh well.

Kent was acting like Clark Kent today!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 15, 2008, 03:44:42 AM
Congrats to Whitworth on a great season.  Best of luck next year.

Symes and Raymond put on quite the second half show.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on March 15, 2008, 01:38:27 PM
Congrats to The Whitworthpirates on a great season and a good run during the big dance. Thanks for representing the west coast. Best of luck during the offseason and for next year. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 15, 2008, 08:29:11 PM
Anyone have an idea what kind of seasons Diablo Valley and Delta JCs had this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on March 16, 2008, 12:37:47 PM
Just a quick update/reminder that "Quantum Hoops" will
be playing for one week (March 28-April 3) in Boston
and Seattle.

The Boston location is the Landmark Kendall Square
Cinema - across the strett from MIT.

The Seattle location is the Landmark Metro Cinemas.

We will also be playing for one night only in San
Antonio (April 10) and Austin (April 24).

If you are in these areas or know anyone who is,
please pass this email on to anybody you think might
be interested.

Feel free to email me directly with any questions or
suggestions.


THANKS FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT!

Rick
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 16, 2008, 04:53:38 PM
Thanks for the update!  I have been wanting to see that documentary...I might have to go check it out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2008, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
THANKS!  Would have hated to have to ask. ;D :P

And Bob Castle will be announcing the Whitworth/Wheaton game.  Link on the Whitworth site.

NWCer -- don't know why you're being so snotty.  I just want the keeper of the NWC site to do his job and put Willamette in 3rd place.  They had to play UPS for a 3rd time to earn it.  Don't care how they rank the rest of them, but WU did win the tie breaker of the 4 that tied.


I didn't think NWCer was being snotty at all!  There actaually isn't a keeper of the NWC, or the NWC website.  In fact I think that the NWC website is maintained by the WW SID.  So, #1 he has a few more important things he is working on.  And #2 That's a small thing to nitpick about.  Yes they won the tiebreaker, but that doesn't mean they finished 3a instead of 3d.  They finished 3rd with the other 3 teams, and were fortunate enough to get to move on for the playoffs. 

Hi, folks -- I see this is still a discussion.  ???

The NWC and D3hoops both use the same database and it isn't smart enough to maintain tiebreakers for 40 different conferences. We don't have control over it to move teams around within tied groups.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 16, 2008, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:14:06 PM
Well I figure someone has to post the updates so here is goes :)


WW and Wheaton are tied up at 13 with 10 mins and change to go
Why didn't you bozos use the update page?  Dang I will hate everyone named Kent from now til I die.


My bad...forgot about the updates page, oh well.

Kent was acting like Clark Kent today!
It's always possible to show up and have someone play a game they will remember the rest of their lives.  Unfortunately, the guy that showed up was an All-American.  His own quote said "It is just one of those nights where God blesses you with a hot hand and it just felt good."  When the All Mighty Himself is helping the other team, lol, what can you do?  We had a great year and I was so impressed with how this team came together and played without ego or issue.  Very nice coaching and a lucky home game after a BYE!  So many great things to remember down the road. 

Be interesting to see if the coach positions change and if anyone transfer away from the conf.  If you here about anything interesting, I will be happy to and enjoy chatting about it.

Whitworth will have some big holes to fill and will probably be picked 2, maybe even third or fourth.  If that happens, good, we will do it again and 3peat.  Happy spring and summer gentlemen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 16, 2008, 05:31:34 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2008, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
THANKS!  Would have hated to have to ask. ;D :P

And Bob Castle will be announcing the Whitworth/Wheaton game.  Link on the Whitworth site.

NWCer -- don't know why you're being so snotty.  I just want the keeper of the NWC site to do his job and put Willamette in 3rd place.  They had to play UPS for a 3rd time to earn it.  Don't care how they rank the rest of them, but WU did win the tie breaker of the 4 that tied.


I didn't think NWCer was being snotty at all!  There actaually isn't a keeper of the NWC, or the NWC website.  In fact I think that the NWC website is maintained by the WW SID.  So, #1 he has a few more important things he is working on.  And #2 That's a small thing to nitpick about.  Yes they won the tiebreaker, but that doesn't mean they finished 3a instead of 3d.  They finished 3rd with the other 3 teams, and were fortunate enough to get to move on for the playoffs. 

Hi, folks -- I see this is still a discussion.  ???

The NWC and D3hoops both use the same database and it isn't smart enough to maintain tiebreakers for 40 different conferences. We don't have control over it to move teams around within tied groups.
Thanks Pat, good info.  I think bbaddict has given up on his unholy grail quest for 3rd. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 16, 2008, 11:19:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2008, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 14, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Livestats from Holland tonight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
THANKS!  Would have hated to have to ask. ;D :P

And Bob Castle will be announcing the Whitworth/Wheaton game.  Link on the Whitworth site.

NWCer -- don't know why you're being so snotty.  I just want the keeper of the NWC site to do his job and put Willamette in 3rd place.  They had to play UPS for a 3rd time to earn it.  Don't care how they rank the rest of them, but WU did win the tie breaker of the 4 that tied.


I didn't think NWCer was being snotty at all!  There actaually isn't a keeper of the NWC, or the NWC website.  In fact I think that the NWC website is maintained by the WW SID.  So, #1 he has a few more important things he is working on.  And #2 That's a small thing to nitpick about.  Yes they won the tiebreaker, but that doesn't mean they finished 3a instead of 3d.  They finished 3rd with the other 3 teams, and were fortunate enough to get to move on for the playoffs. 

Hi, folks -- I see this is still a discussion.  ???

The NWC and D3hoops both use the same database and it isn't smart enough to maintain tiebreakers for 40 different conferences. We don't have control over it to move teams around within tied groups.

Not a discussion topic with me anymore.  Told you all several days ago that I was switching over to DI for a while.  Do whatever you want with your standing, rankings, etc.   I'm just gearing up for a long dry spell of no basketball!  Waaa.  Can't stand baseball, but I guess if you look far enough, football is just around the corner.   :)

Good job Pirates.  Really wish you could've beaten Wheaton -- but they only lasted one more game.  Guess Hope got the better of them!

See you all next year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 17, 2008, 12:15:52 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 16, 2008, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:14:06 PM
Well I figure someone has to post the updates so here is goes :)


WW and Wheaton are tied up at 13 with 10 mins and change to go
Why didn't you bozos use the update page?  Dang I will hate everyone named Kent from now til I die.


My bad...forgot about the updates page, oh well.

Kent was acting like Clark Kent today!
It's always possible to show up and have someone play a game they will remember the rest of their lives.  Unfortunately, the guy that showed up was an All-American.  His own quote said "It is just one of those nights where God blesses you with a hot hand and it just felt good."  When the All Mighty Himself is helping the other team, lol, what can you do?  We had a great year and I was so impressed with how this team came together and played without ego or issue.  Very nice coaching and a lucky home game after a BYE!  So many great things to remember down the road. 

Be interesting to see if the coach positions change and if anyone transfer away from the conf.  If you here about anything interesting, I will be happy to and enjoy chatting about it.

Whitworth will have some big holes to fill and will probably be picked 2, maybe even third or fourth.  If that happens, good, we will do it again and 3peat.  Happy spring and summer gentlemen.

That would really be something if WW can win a 3rd straight.  And if they do then my hat goes off to Hayford for a heck of a job.  Hopefully, my loggers will have a little something to say about that 3peat.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 17, 2008, 12:38:48 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 17, 2008, 12:15:52 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 16, 2008, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 14, 2008, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2008, 06:14:06 PM
Well I figure someone has to post the updates so here is goes :)


WW and Wheaton are tied up at 13 with 10 mins and change to go
Why didn't you bozos use the update page?  Dang I will hate everyone named Kent from now til I die.


My bad...forgot about the updates page, oh well.

Kent was acting like Clark Kent today!
It's always possible to show up and have someone play a game they will remember the rest of their lives.  Unfortunately, the guy that showed up was an All-American.  His own quote said "It is just one of those nights where God blesses you with a hot hand and it just felt good."  When the All Mighty Himself is helping the other team, lol, what can you do?  We had a great year and I was so impressed with how this team came together and played without ego or issue.  Very nice coaching and a lucky home game after a BYE!  So many great things to remember down the road. 

Be interesting to see if the coach positions change and if anyone transfer away from the conf.  If you here about anything interesting, I will be happy to and enjoy chatting about it.

Whitworth will have some big holes to fill and will probably be picked 2, maybe even third or fourth.  If that happens, good, we will do it again and 3peat.  Happy spring and summer gentlemen.

That would really be something if WW can win a 3rd straight.  And if they do then my hat goes off to Hayford for a heck of a job.  Hopefully, my loggers will have a little something to say about that 3peat.  :)

Wouldn't put it by them to get it done again, who thought they could replace Pecht and Tucker with two better players in Symes and Willemson and win it, and then when losing all they did last year it made LC and UPS everyone's pick and they get it done again........

Loggers will be tough, I think Fox, Whitman, and PLU will make up the bottom 3 again and then the other 6 will be in a dogfight again..........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on March 20, 2008, 04:03:53 PM
Congrats to NWCer's Ryan Symes, Antwan Williams, Jason Foster and freshmen K.C. Wiser for such a big recognition. Great job.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 20, 2008, 11:17:32 PM
Quote from: Browneagle64 on March 20, 2008, 04:03:53 PM
Congrats to NWCer's Ryan Symes, Antwan Williams, Jason Foster and freshmen K.C. Wiser for such a big recognition. Great job.
I agree.  Good show for NWC and congrats to Whitman on POTY.  Symes on first team!  I love it. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 25, 2008, 04:54:30 PM
Its too bad that WW didn't make the top 25 in the final poll.  I would have thought they would have been in there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 25, 2008, 04:56:23 PM
Well I guess that about wraps it up for this year's hoop season.  Hopefully people will contiune to post.  I have enjoyed everyone contributions!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on April 14, 2008, 06:57:52 PM
All may be interested to know that Joey Toboni and Mark Robinowitz are currently playing for Portland's International Basketball League (IBL) team. Really short contracts, but still the next level. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 17, 2008, 03:20:50 AM
news on Whitworth's recruiting front... 6-8 freshman from Germany is planning on coming (pretty sure he's a post-type player), as well as a 6-8 JUCO kid.  They're working on a good sized JUCO guard and have another committed with same look and style of play as Willemsen.  Another freshman from Aspen, CO is most likely coming and I'm pretty sure he's a 6-5, 6-6 swingman.  While Whitworth will undoubtedly finish second or third in the pre-season coaches poll, the guys are saying that based on playing with the new guys in open gym settings when they visit, this could be the best team they've had in quite some time.  If you don't believe me then go back to my posts from last year about the JUCO kids and freshman coming in...no reason I'm any less accurate this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on May 01, 2008, 12:39:33 AM
So, LogShow -- any news on what Eric Bridgeland is going to do now that Pepperdine made the massive mistake of cutting him loose?  I can't believe that they just let him go after he was left with an inexperienced team and actually went on to improve their season.  Big mistake --- they traded him for the old guy with "past experience".   We can only hope he doesn't come back to the NWC -- at least for Bearcat fans! :D

Man, I miss basketball!  The NBA just isn't the same as good ol' DIII bball!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on May 02, 2008, 01:01:58 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on May 01, 2008, 12:39:33 AM
So, LogShow -- any news on what Eric Bridgeland is going to do now that Pepperdine made the massive mistake of cutting him loose?  I can't believe that they just let him go after he was left with an inexperienced team and actually went on to improve their season.  Big mistake --- they traded him for the old guy with "past experience".   We can only hope he doesn't come back to the NWC -- at least for Bearcat fans! :D

Man, I miss basketball!  The NBA just isn't the same as good ol' DIII bball!



I am not very familar with the situation but the tiny bits I have heard is that Bridgeland upset the powers that be.  And they didn't want him back.  I would be more than suprised if he ended up in the NWC again.  I don't think he would want to return to this level, but I guess I could be wrong. 

And I wouldn't be too concerned as long as I have James on the bench, that man can coach!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 02, 2008, 03:22:11 AM
Logshow!!  My man, what's happenin?!?!?!?   What's good from Logger recruiting?  I've been detached from the Grove, couldn't tell you what's goin' on with my Boxers, just happy we'll have Bartlett back next year, and Howe!

You're right Logshow, the Willamette guy can coach............

Just throwing this out, Bridgeland is looking for a job, and Whitman is looking for a coach, anything there??

And I'm witcha BBaddict, I miss DIII too.......

Any news from any one out there?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on May 10, 2008, 12:42:18 AM
whitman...nobody would have ever thot they would have been any good at bbal...  i worked at ups for long time and never thot they had even a chance.  logshow, is bridgland appling, or? i tell you what... if bridgland goes anywere in the nwc, people better lookout.  pepperdine...wat were they thinking? logshow seems to know
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on May 12, 2008, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: NWCer on May 02, 2008, 03:22:11 AM
Logshow!!  My man, what's happenin?!?!?!?   What's good from Logger recruiting?  I've been detached from the Grove, couldn't tell you what's goin' on with my Boxers, just happy we'll have Bartlett back next year, and Howe!

You're right Logshow, the Willamette guy can coach............

Just throwing this out, Bridgeland is looking for a job, and Whitman is looking for a coach, anything there??

And I'm witcha BBaddict, I miss DIII too.......

Any news from any one out there?



NWCer!!! How's it going??  Great to hear from you!

Word on the street is that UPS got most of their top recurits for next year.  From what I hear, Lunt & Co. are really excitedabout the guys they got, so we will see.  Hopefully Lunt will give some of the freshmen more time then he has the past two years, they haven't developed much game experience.

So I guess that Bridgeland is applying for the coaching position at Whitman.  Pretty suprising, I would have bet that he wouldn't have ever set foot back in D3 unless something major happened.  It seems like a step back for him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on May 12, 2008, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: mtnman on May 10, 2008, 12:42:18 AM
whitman...nobody would have ever thot they would have been any good at bbal...  i worked at ups for long time and never thot they had even a chance.  logshow, is bridgland appling, or? i tell you what... if bridgland goes anywere in the nwc, people better lookout.  pepperdine...wat were they thinking? logshow seems to know

When has Whitman ever been good at hoops?  UPS atleast had a tradition of winning.  Whitman hasn't even updated that Skip had retired or that they are looking for a new coach on their athletics website.  Bridgeland may be a good coach, but I just don't think that you can win at Whitman.  You have to recurit against UPS, and Whitworth, and get kids to want to come to Walla Walla.  Also you have to get the kids into school.  Finally you have to get support from the administration to actually embrace winning instead of viewing sports as another extracirricular activity.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 12, 2008, 01:40:30 PM
I hear you Logshow about Bridgeland to Whitman being a step back for him, but it's a whole lot better than being unemployed.  For a guy that's jumped around from job to job and profession to profession, I can say that when you're unemployed, EVERY opening is attractive!

He'll have his work cut out for him, but from what I usually hear, nobody works harder, so maybe he can get it done.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on May 13, 2008, 11:39:19 AM
Good point NWCer! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 13, 2008, 12:35:31 PM
Logshow, I read on a website that a very good player from Corvalis High School is heading to UPS....  Any other particulars on the others?

I've heard at Pacific that Bartlett is playing again and will be ready to go full swing next year, I look forward to seeing him and Howe together, should be quite a duo.

Not even knowing how recruiting is going for anybody, but I think it could be another exciting and balanced year next season, with another 6 or so teams as serious contenders for the 3 team playoff again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on May 13, 2008, 07:45:42 PM
Apparently LC is getting a couple of 6'8'' JUCO transfers and a guard from Oakland. Key returners are Josh Kollasch, Dave Berggren, and Tyson Papenfuss. Kollasch could play a much bigger role next season if he stays healthy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on May 28, 2008, 05:08:26 PM
Big news here: http://www.whitman.edu/athletics/Spotlight/bridgeland_newmbbcoach.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on May 28, 2008, 05:12:03 PM
On the basketball floor, Bridgeland pins his aggressive playing style on the twin concepts of pressure defense and attacking offense. "I don't think there is a more enjoyable style for the athletes to play or for the fans to watch," he says.

Does this mean Whitman is going to mimic the UPS style of play? hmm...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on May 29, 2008, 12:00:28 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on May 28, 2008, 05:12:03 PM
On the basketball floor, Bridgeland pins his aggressive playing style on the twin concepts of pressure defense and attacking offense. "I don't think there is a more enjoyable style for the athletes to play or for the fans to watch," he says.

Does this mean Whitman is going to mimic the UPS style of play? hmm...
Did UPS have that style of play before Bridgeland? Or did he bring it to the Loggers?
Whitwman has themselves a very good coach. Pepperdine made a mistake.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 29, 2008, 12:08:22 AM
Yes OxyBob I think this is great news for the NWC as well as Whitman obviously....  And Pio20 Bridgeland brought that style to UPS so I don't think he'll 'mimic' UPS's style, he'll just do what he knows - his style.  Does this cut into Whitworth or UPS's recruiting?  Wow, exciting news for the summer.... 

Logshow, where you at????  What's the Loggers' thoughts on the hire, will Bridgeland eventually beat his old assistant consistently...

Its like the conference has expanded, adding another threat, it should be fun!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on May 30, 2008, 06:21:53 PM
Hey guys.  Bridgeland is back..that is amazing.  I am truly surprised that Whitman ended up being his best opportunity, however that being said, it is good for NWC hoops.  He is a good coach, good recruiter, and a hard worker.  It would be great to see the NWC become and remain a D3 powerhouse conference.  With good coaches come good players, then good success in the tournament, then national respect with voters and other conferences.  I do guarantee that Whitman will improve over last season, cough cough...

Good luck to EB and Whitman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on June 02, 2008, 09:41:35 PM
Oh man lots to comment on...lets go old to new
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on June 02, 2008, 09:46:52 PM
Quote from: NWCer on May 13, 2008, 12:35:31 PM
Logshow, I read on a website that a very good player from Corvalis High School is heading to UPS....  Any other particulars on the others?

I've heard at Pacific that Bartlett is playing again and will be ready to go full swing next year, I look forward to seeing him and Howe together, should be quite a duo.

Not even knowing how recruiting is going for anybody, but I think it could be another exciting and balanced year next season, with another 6 or so teams as serious contenders for the 3 team playoff again.


I have heard that the UPS coaching staff is very very excited about this new guard from Corvalis.  Apperently he can really play, I am really looking forward to watching him play next year.  Other not too familar with the other recurits.  Heard that they have a few athletic big guys coming in, so it should be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on June 02, 2008, 09:51:50 PM
Well Bridgeland is the new coach of Whitman.  I can't say I am not suprised, I really didn't see that one coming, but a few people on this board called it.  I just didn't think that he would end up at Whitman, because honestly that is probably one of the least desirable jobs on the west coast.  I just would have thought that he would have been able to get a better job, its weird that Whitman was his best option.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 03, 2008, 02:06:08 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on May 30, 2008, 06:21:53 PM
I am truly surprised that Whitman ended up being his best opportunity

Quote from: LogShow on June 02, 2008, 09:51:50 PM
Well Bridgeland is the new coach of Whitman.  I can't say I am not suprised, I really didn't see that one coming, but a few people on this board called it.  I just didn't think that he would end up at Whitman, because honestly that is probably one of the least desirable jobs on the west coast.  I just would have thought that he would have been able to get a better job, its weird that Whitman was his best option.

Perhaps Whitman wasn't his "best option" or "best opportunity". Perhaps he chose Whitman simply for its own sake. There are coaches out there who like a challenge, you know. Not every coach wants to inherit someone else's winning tradition. It could be that Bridgeland prefers to take on the challenge of trying to create his own winning tradition from scratch. He may want to make for himself a coaching legacy as a builder rather than as a caretaker.

For evidence that this might be the case, look at his career at Puget Sound. In the four seasons between UPS's entrance into the league in 1996-97 and Bridgeland's arrival in 2000-01 the Loggers finished ninth, sixth, ninth, and seventh in the NWC standings. During that four-year span the Loggers went 22-46 in NWC play and 33-62 overall. By the time that he left after the 2006-07 season the Loggers were the threepeat NWC champions and a respected national power in D3.

From what this room has said about Whitman, it sounds like a difficult place to build a winner. I have no doubt that as a former NWC coach Bridgeland is as aware of Whitman's inherent shortcomings as anyone. There are probably fewer would-be builders than would-be caretakers in the coaching ranks -- not everyone has the patience or the endurance to deal with pushing the boulder uphill for four or five years before you see any results, if indeed you ever see them at all -- but there are still plenty of coaches out there who would relish the opportunity to silence the naysayers and turn a lemon into lemonade in Walla Walla. Based upon the losing circumstances at UPS when he arrived there, Bridgeland just might be that type of coach.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formerhooper on June 03, 2008, 03:44:39 PM
Or could it be that EB couldn't find another job and had to feed his family?  COuld it be that he couoldn't put Walberg on his resume because of the way he went out at Pepperdine and that he probably won't be able to get a D1 job for a long time?  Look for him to stay for one year and look to step in at Willamette, where his former Santa Cruz AD is.  lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 03, 2008, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: formerhooper on June 03, 2008, 03:44:39 PM
Or could it be that EB couldn't find another job and had to feed his family?  COuld it be that he couoldn't put Walberg on his resume because of the way he went out at Pepperdine and that he probably won't be able to get a D1 job for a long time?  Look for him to stay for one year and look to step in at Willamette, where his former Santa Cruz AD is.  lol.

Bridgeland was already looking for a D-III job. I don't believe he ever wanted another D-I job.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on June 03, 2008, 05:08:20 PM
Well what is everyone's thoughts on how Bridgeland will do at Whitman?  I know they'll be better, does that mean challenging for the conference tourney?

What does that do to the balance, if he is able to get Whitman out of that bottom third which they've consistently been in, then they have to be replaced by someone........  So my question which program(s) does this effect the most?

Also if anyone knows the history of Bridgeland and Whitman's recruiting, where will he get his players from?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 03, 2008, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: NWCer on June 03, 2008, 05:08:20 PM
Well what is everyone's thoughts on how Bridgeland will do at Whitman?  I know they'll be better, does that mean challenging for the conference tourney?

What does that do to the balance, if he is able to get Whitman out of that bottom third which they've consistently been in, then they have to be replaced by someone........  So my question which program(s) does this effect the most?

Also if anyone knows the history of Bridgeland and Whitman's recruiting, where will he get his players from?

That last question would be the first one I'd ask, since any speculation about his getting Whitman out of the bottom third of the NWC is premature. Even if he's able to succeed there, it's very hard to imagine him doing so overnight. Realistically, the Whitman folks should give him one student generation (four years) to at least start to make the Missionaries competitive within the NWC. That seems to be the general rule of thumb in terms of a grace period for coaches who are taking over a moribund D3 basketball program.

From the limited amount that I know about the state of Washington, it appears that the eastern half of the state is very underpopulated except for Spokane, is it not? I notice that the vast majority of last season's Whitman roster consisted of Seattle-area players. I would imagine that Bridgeland will continue to work metro Seattle for recruits, but the distance and remoteness of Walla Walla (MapQuest says it's a four-and-a-half-hour drive from Seattle) might mean that a Whitman recruiter is behind the eight-ball when trying to sell that school to Seattle- and Tacoma-area prospects. I wonder if a more concentrated approach to recruiting the admittedly sparse hinterlands of eastern Washington, eastern Oregon, and northern Idaho might be in order as well ... or if following the example of NWC competitors and dipping into the juco pool might be the way to go.

I don't know enough about Whitman to be able to speak authoritatively to the issue of how Bridgeland should go about trying to build a program there. But my admittedly casual observation is that the fact that Walla Walla is an obscure burg of 30,000 people that's literally in the middle of nowhere might be the biggest obstacle for him to overcome.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on June 03, 2008, 08:00:06 PM
Great points Sager, thanks for dropping in.

Hadn't did my geography, but since your post I have, it is rather remote.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: old_hooper on June 03, 2008, 09:29:34 PM
Bridgeland might have been an interesting candidate for the Williams job.  If he had pursued that he might of been one of the top prospects for that position based on his previous accomplishments at Puget Sound.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on June 04, 2008, 12:28:18 AM
As a Whitworth fan I have watched the Bridgeland hiring at Whitman with great interest.  I think the hiring sends a signal that the school's administration no longer considers a young man with strong academic credentials mutually exclusive of a young man with athletic ability.

There is a potential positive by-product for Whitworth as well.  I think if you made the NWC coaches take truth serum, they would admit they spent 75-80% of the week before playing Whitman and Whitworth preparing for the Pirates.  Now they will have to take Whitman more seriously.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 04, 2008, 09:02:43 AM
Quote from: old_hooper on June 03, 2008, 09:29:34 PM
Bridgeland might have been an interesting candidate for the Williams job.  If he had pursued that he might of been one of the top prospects for that position based on his previous accomplishments at Puget Sound.

True, if Bridgeland had applied for the Williams job he might have been among the top applicants. But if I had to guess, I'd say that Williams is much more likely to select someone who has a college coaching background that includes top-level academic institutions (UAA, NESCAC, Ivy League, Patriot League). A coach who has one or more of those types of schools on his resume would have experience with the nationally-based, high-academic-status recruiting methodology that Williams uses.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on June 05, 2008, 12:57:06 AM
Quote from: formerhooper on June 03, 2008, 03:44:39 PM
Or could it be that EB couldn't find another job and had to feed his family?  COuld it be that he couoldn't put Walberg on his resume because of the way he went out at Pepperdine and that he probably won't be able to get a D1 job for a long time?  Look for him to stay for one year and look to step in at Willamette, where his former Santa Cruz AD is.  lol.

Interesting post there formerhooper.  Where did you get those facts Bridgeland's actions at Pepperdine?

I can't see Bridgeland at Whitman for more then 3 years.  In all of his many stops in his still young career he hasn't stayed anywhere longer then 3 years...besides UPS where he won a title his 3rd year and knew they were going to be good for a couple years to come.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on June 05, 2008, 05:27:02 AM
I think you guys may be digging a little too deep on this one. Maybe he simply would rather stay with things he is familiar with such as a DIII program, the NWC, and the Northwest. He has a child on the way. Perhaps he wants to simply take a lowkey job (compared to being a DI head coach) and be able to spend time with his family and not have to worry about scholarships, press conferences, etc. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2008, 08:42:47 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on June 05, 2008, 05:27:02 AM
I think you guys may be digging a little too deep on this one. Maybe he simply would rather stay with things he is familiar with such as a DIII program, the NWC, and the Northwest. He has a child on the way. Perhaps he wants to simply take a lowkey job (compared to being a DI head coach) and be able to spend time with his family and not have to worry about scholarships, press conferences, etc.

We're all simply engaging in idle speculation, Pio20 (you, too ;)). None of us knows for sure why Bridgeland took the position at Whitman. Short of getting a post here from someone who has spoken to him about it, I don't see this question being answered definitively.

File this conversation under "Passing The Time During The Off-season". ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on June 05, 2008, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2008, 08:42:47 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on June 05, 2008, 05:27:02 AM
I think you guys may be digging a little too deep on this one. Maybe he simply would rather stay with things he is familiar with such as a DIII program, the NWC, and the Northwest. He has a child on the way. Perhaps he wants to simply take a lowkey job (compared to being a DI head coach) and be able to spend time with his family and not have to worry about scholarships, press conferences, etc.

We're all simply engaging in idle speculation, Pio20 (you, too ;)). None of us knows for sure why Bridgeland took the position at Whitman. Short of getting a post here from someone who has spoken to him about it, I don't see this question being answered definitively.

File this conversation under "Passing The Time During The Off-season". ;)

haha very true..passing more time...are any of the courts out there being refurbished while they get a new three point line? I know the LC court is being "re-finished" and the bleachers are being replaced...finally! Those things were painful and painfully old.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on June 18, 2008, 04:40:30 AM
Update: Saw  the LC gym today. Both sides are very nice individual seats. In the middle section, some of the seats are white and orange to spell out L&C. Also there are little L&C logos on each row, like you might see at a new arena or stadium. Pretty cool. Definitely a huge upgrade from the wooden bleachers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on July 09, 2008, 03:39:55 AM
http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/news/mbx0702
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on July 10, 2008, 03:14:06 PM
Their accolades sure sound good, sounds like they brought in a good class.  Any other recruiting news?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 19, 2008, 09:48:09 AM
Six?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on July 20, 2008, 11:06:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 19, 2008, 09:48:09 AM
Six?

http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/news/mbx0702

Six indeed. Five freshmen. I think it is safe to say this is the most freshmen that have come to LC in a long time. Out of last year's 7 seniors only 3 played their entire career at LC. Last year one freshman came in, in 2006 one freshman, 2005 three freshmen, and 2004 three freshmen. This could mean Coach G will actually have to play the freshmen!  :o PJ Taylor, the point guard from Oakland may even start, taking over the spot Tillery left open upon graduating. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 21, 2008, 12:32:14 AM
Ha -- you know -- I got a little disoriented and I thought I was on the football boards. Thank goodness it was a basketball recruiting class. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on July 21, 2008, 02:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 21, 2008, 12:32:14 AM
Ha -- you know -- I got a little disoriented and I thought I was on the football boards. Thank goodness it was a basketball recruiting class. :)

But would 6 recruits for the LC football team really surprise you considering their lack of any success or even having a team for that matter?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on July 21, 2008, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: LogShow on July 21, 2008, 02:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 21, 2008, 12:32:14 AM
Ha -- you know -- I got a little disoriented and I thought I was on the football boards. Thank goodness it was a basketball recruiting class. :)

But would 6 recruits for the LC football team really surprise you considering their lack of any success or even having a team for that matter?

Great point Logshow!

Pio20, good insight on LC's history, didn't realize how this many frosh at one time is a change from their recent past.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 21, 2008, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: LogShow on July 21, 2008, 02:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 21, 2008, 12:32:14 AM
Ha -- you know -- I got a little disoriented and I thought I was on the football boards. Thank goodness it was a basketball recruiting class. :)

But would 6 recruits for the LC football team really surprise you considering their lack of any success or even having a team for that matter?

Exactly why I reacted as such. Having six incoming recruits for football would be a virtual death sentence for an already-small program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on July 21, 2008, 07:32:50 PM
From what I hear...and this could be an exaggeration, but I hear that there are 12 linemen alone coming to LC. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on July 22, 2008, 12:22:53 PM
I haven't heard much about Whitworth's recruiting class to add to the current discussion, other than they have a big freshman coming from Germany. 

But next year's schedule was just posted.  I see Caltech again ( :P).  But that is balanced out by a season-opening trip to Johns Hopkins and Whitworth's own tournament in San Francisco that includes Gustavus and Simpson.  Back in the Redlands tournament again too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on July 22, 2008, 04:31:10 PM
Ha Cal Tech again!  Atleast WW doesn't play them twice this year.  Maybe Hayford just really likes the Pasadena area :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on July 22, 2008, 05:22:08 PM
Why?  What can possibly be gained from Whitworth traveling over 1200 miles to play Cal Tech?  Why do they keep doing it, why does Cal Tech keep letting them do it?  Doesn't their strength of  schedule take a hit every year because of it?  So they get a W, they'll win 23 games now instead of 22, but they're an elite program, if they played a CLU, CMS, something like that they'll most likely win anyway (look what they did to Pomona and Redlands last year).  How does it prepare them, test them, or make them better?  What is the gain?  Every 2 or 3 years ok, but EVERY year, sometimes twice in a year!  Come on Pirate faithfuls, as Mark Jackson would say "You're better than that!".

Speaking of schedules, Bridgeland was left quite a road to get started on, including a couple Wisconsins, and Trinity, wow! 

Logshow, any word from your place on what those around Bridgeland's ex program thinks about him guiding the missionaries?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on July 24, 2008, 12:28:40 AM
While as a Pirate fan I am not thrilled with playing Caltech again this year, I am more concerned with how hard it is for Whitworth to get non-conference home games.  Second year in a row we play every non-conference game on the road.  I know Eastern Washington is isolated, but geez - there is an airport right in town!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on July 24, 2008, 07:13:33 PM
Quote from: NWCer on July 22, 2008, 05:22:08 PM
Why?  What can possibly be gained from Whitworth traveling over 1200 miles to play Cal Tech?  Why do they keep doing it, why does Cal Tech keep letting them do it?  Doesn't their strength of  schedule take a hit every year because of it?  So they get a W, they'll win 23 games now instead of 22, but they're an elite program, if they played a CLU, CMS, something like that they'll most likely win anyway (look what they did to Pomona and Redlands last year).  How does it prepare them, test them, or make them better?  What is the gain?  Every 2 or 3 years ok, but EVERY year, sometimes twice in a year!  Come on Pirate faithfuls, as Mark Jackson would say "You're better than that!".

Speaking of schedules, Bridgeland was left quite a road to get started on, including a couple Wisconsins, and Trinity, wow! 

Logshow, any word from your place on what those around Bridgeland's ex program thinks about him guiding the missionaries?

Yeah I think Whitman is going to be pretty terrible next year.  Tough schedule, and returning a team that won 2 games, with no real leaders.  Bridgeland is a good coach, but you can't teach talent, and Whitman doesn't have any.

INWCer, I think that lots of people around here were quite surprised that he actually took that job, and interested to see how he will do.  I bet this next year's seniors are going to be pumped to face off against him.  He recruited, and coached them their freshman year.  UPS' schedule has their final home game aka senior night against Whitman.  Wow, i bet the gym will be packed that night!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on July 24, 2008, 07:19:45 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on July 24, 2008, 12:28:40 AM
While as a Pirate fan I am not thrilled with playing Caltech again this year, I am more concerned with how hard it is for Whitworth to get non-conference home games.  Second year in a row we play every non-conference game on the road.  I know Eastern Washington is isolated, but geez - there is an airport right in town!

I hear ya pinecone!  UPS can't get any worthy opponents to come into Memorial Fieldhouse either.  We only have two home games...And one is the Banana Slugs.

I suppose that Hayford knows that his team pretty much wins every home game they play so he wants to get in as many road games as he can for practice.  Not a bad strategy, but tough for the home fans that want to see some good games!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 24, 2008, 09:04:48 PM
Cal Tech may not be the cream of the crop when it comes to nonconference scheduling, but it is this:

An in-region game

When you win, it's a WIN.  Back when they had that crazy formula in figuring out your SOSI or whatever, a win against an 0-24 team got you more points than losing to a 24-0 team.  Take the win.


It takes two to tango.  So, other teams have to be WILLING to play you as well.  Sure, playing CLU or CMS would be nice, but they have to be willing to play you, most likely a home and home series. 

At least those "home games" in San Francisco are regional against Simpson and Gustavus Adolphus.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on August 27, 2008, 02:23:48 PM
Pios 2008-9 schedule is up. UW-Whitewater and UW-Oshkosh on the schedule! Looks like the Pios are trying to get some respect from back "East". I like it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 22, 2008, 06:57:47 PM
Whitworth update:

Two years ago Whitworth was supposedly in trouble after losing POY Pecht, last year 4 seniors were gone and it was supposed to be everyone else's chance to take the conference, this year I'm sure you'll hear about the loss of Symes opening the door for everyone else in the NWC...This might be the best basketball team Whitworth has had in a long time.  The Germans are for real and the bigger one (his first name is Felix) at 6'9" should be the most dominate big man in the conference.  This Whitworth team has one of the league's best point guards, shooting guards, and the biggest front court.  I said last year that Hayford had done a good job in the offseason of replacing his seniors with guys that fit his system and would give him the same type of production as the year before...I was criticized but low and behold Riley replaced Young, Nakamura filled in for Williams, Montgomery and Jurich replaced Hasenfus, Willemsen replaced Jones and another NWC crown was won.  This year the only loss is Symes and while there is no player that fits his or Pecht's mold, the scoring will come from elsewhere on the court.  Whitworth will have a lot more points in the paint with the Germans playing down low alongside Jurich and Montgomery, as well as more looks for Riley and Nakamura in the backcourt.

All of this is very preliminary but this board is dead so I thought I'd add a little something to keep it interesting
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 23, 2008, 07:00:11 PM
Thanks Rat, seems like the Pirates are up to there same old thing, quite a factory.

I've heard out at Pacific that my Boxers are excited for the year, Bartlett is back and will be paired with Howe and they have a couple transfers along with a good guard out of California.

I read the websites from PLU, UPS, and LC about their freshmen classes, any insight on how good these groups are?  Logs!?!?  Where you at, gotta give us a report!

And Rat is right, we got to get the board up and going again, besides, I'm only 1 post now away from being a starter!!!! :) :D ;D :-*
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on September 26, 2008, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: NWCer on September 23, 2008, 07:00:11 PM
Thanks Rat, seems like the Pirates are up to there same old thing, quite a factory.

I've heard out at Pacific that my Boxers are excited for the year, Bartlett is back and will be paired with Howe and they have a couple transfers along with a good guard out of California.

I read the websites from PLU, UPS, and LC about their freshmen classes, any insight on how good these groups are?  Logs!?!?  Where you at, gotta give us a report!

And Rat is right, we got to get the board up and going again, besides, I'm only 1 post now away from being a starter!!!! :) :D ;D :-*

I can't speak much for the LC freshmen, but I can say that I think they will see more playing time than LC freshmen in the past simply based on how many seniors were lost.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 27, 2008, 01:53:54 AM
Pio20,

Yes the Pios lost a lot with their class last year.  What's your take on the LC returners? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on September 27, 2008, 06:21:40 PM
Quote from: NWCer on September 27, 2008, 01:53:54 AM
Pio20,

Yes the Pios lost a lot with their class last year.  What's your take on the LC returners? 

It is so hard to say. Last season transfer Papenfuss led the team in scoring in non-conference and still ending up leading the NWC in shooting at 60%. Yet for whatever reason he never played that big of a role in conference games. I think part of the reason for LC's non-conference success last season was their ability to break out of the old one-dimensional game they have played forever (shooting threes). Papenfuss was a big part of this. He is not big but his inside moves are solid. Also, Josh Kollasch had a lot of early season success before he got hurt. He will play a much bigger role this season if he stays healthy. He was tearing it up, both on offense and defense, before he got hurt last season. He is very athletic and can shoot the mid-range jumper. I think those two players are the ones who will dictate how the Pios do this season. Otherwise, you will see much of the same...living and dying by the three resulting in inconsistent play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 14, 2008, 12:09:48 AM
Quote from: NWCer on September 23, 2008, 07:00:11 PM
Thanks Rat, seems like the Pirates are up to there same old thing, quite a factory.

I've heard out at Pacific that my Boxers are excited for the year, Bartlett is back and will be paired with Howe and they have a couple transfers along with a good guard out of California.

I read the websites from PLU, UPS, and LC about their freshmen classes, any insight on how good these groups are?  Logs!?!?  Where you at, gotta give us a report!

And Rat is right, we got to get the board up and going again, besides, I'm only 1 post now away from being a starter!!!! :) :D ;D :-*

NWCer, my apologies...I have definately been missing in action for some time.  The season (practice) is almost upon us so hopefully this board will pick up again.  As for the Loggers...what you see is what you get.  The same core group of guys return to take one more chance at winning a conference title.  If UPS again fails to preform well in the second half of the season and win conference, then I think this year's senior class was never able to live up to their potential.  They came in with high accolades, with quite a few getting good mins their freshman year.  I am really interested to see how they fair.  And will be very disappointed if they can't put it together their senior year.

As far as recurits go.  I heard that UPS got a stud guard from Corvallis, OR.  Appearently he could challenge for playing time early...excited to see him play.  And just excited to have college basketball start.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 14, 2008, 12:10:45 AM
NWCer, I forgot to ask how does it feel getting off the bench and becoming a starter!?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 14, 2008, 02:08:09 PM
It feels great Logshow to get introduced at the beginning of the game!!  I'm glad coach has me starting now!!

Yeah I've heard about the frosh from Corvallis, sounds like a good get for the Loggers.

Thanks for your honest assessment of your Loggers over the last 3 years with that core group, well done, especially coming from a supporter.

Excited to get out and see some games this year, I need to see all teams in the NWC play at least once and get out to more NWC venues or I need to get rid of the handle "NWCer"!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 14, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
whats up everybody, im new to the board and just wanted to make my first post before practices begin. Im definitely excited to see what my loggers can bring to the table this year after 2 disappointing finishes in 07 and 08
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 15, 2008, 02:01:20 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 14, 2008, 02:08:09 PM
It feels great Logshow to get introduced at the beginning of the game!!  I'm glad coach has me starting now!!

Yeah I've heard about the frosh from Corvallis, sounds like a good get for the Loggers.

Thanks for your honest assessment of your Loggers over the last 3 years with that core group, well done, especially coming from a supporter.

Excited to get out and see some games this year, I need to see all teams in the NWC play at least once and get out to more NWC venues or I need to get rid of the handle "NWCer"!!

Nwcer, I try to be honest in my assesments of the Loggers.  It's tough...cause they are my guys, but being critical was waranted.  That being said I will stand by them till the end and am pulling for them to finally reach their potential...before they run out of time.

How are the Boxers looking?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 15, 2008, 02:03:11 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on October 14, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
whats up everybody, im new to the board and just wanted to make my first post before practices begin. Im definitely excited to see what my loggers can bring to the table this year after 2 disappointing finishes in 07 and 08

Always glad to have another poster on the board...especially another UPS supporter :)

Welcome and looking forward to having some new input this year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 15, 2008, 02:04:49 PM
Logshow,

All I've heard of my Boxers is that they're "excited", but honestly, isn't everyone excited on Oct. 15th??  But I do have to admit that I am excited to see Bartlett back playing alongside Howe, that's two returning all leaguers (1st and 2nd teamers, not honorable mentions), I have to do some research to see when the last time Pacific has done that.  As I posted earlier I heard they added a couple of transfers and like their young guard.  Should be a fun season, looking forward to watching them and all the other conference teams.  And excited to get the board up and going again and ultimately hoping if this is the year we get another Pacific supporter up on the board!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 22, 2008, 08:52:48 PM
from what i've heard, sounds like the loggers had a good series of two-a-days. they went on a retreat in oregon, that got the guys away from campus during fall break for the first time in at least 5 years (smart thinking lunt). i guess a couple of freshmen showed that they might be capable of earning some significant pt this year. maybe that will light a fire under some returners  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 23, 2008, 11:22:13 PM
http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/basketball_men/MBKBpoll.htm

I see the pre-season coaches predictions are out, and once again those Loggers are the favorites. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 24, 2008, 02:50:43 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on October 22, 2008, 08:52:48 PM
from what i've heard, sounds like the loggers had a good series of two-a-days. they went on a retreat in oregon, that got the guys away from campus during fall break for the first time in at least 5 years (smart thinking lunt). i guess a couple of freshmen showed that they might be capable of earning some significant pt this year. maybe that will light a fire under some returners  :)

nice input logshock...keep it coming!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 24, 2008, 02:55:26 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 23, 2008, 11:22:13 PM
http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/basketball_men/MBKBpoll.htm

I see the pre-season coaches predictions are out, and once again those Loggers are the favorites. 



Yeah but...it hasn't faired to well for us the past few years...can we put it together?

By the way whats the deal with Whitman getting a first place vote!?  Did anyone else find that slightly weird and amusing?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 24, 2008, 02:30:29 PM
Logshow,

I found it weird and amusing.....  Bridgeland is a good coach and Whitman will be better, and in the upcoming years substantially better, but first place in 2008-2009, don't think so. 

Seemed like that 3-6, Willamette, Pacific, LC, and Linfield was a close vote, maybe there will be another tight race.......

In that article it said that there is going to be a 4 team tourney now.....  Is that news just to me?, was that known?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 24, 2008, 02:32:33 PM
http://www.nwcsports.com/landing/index

And a nice new website........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 24, 2008, 08:27:20 PM
LC picked to finish fifth in the NWC. That should light a fire under them after a disappointing year last year. UPS and Whitworth got a lot of votes in the national poll. I wonder if the NWC expanded to the four team playoff because the race was so tight last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 24, 2008, 10:48:21 PM
Check out the team pages on the new NWC site (click on the logos at the top). On the right hand side of the header is an "N" in a circle with a little arrow pointing NW. Perhaps a NWC secondary logo of sorts? Whatever it is I like it!

http://www.nwcsports.com/members/george_fox/info
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 25, 2008, 04:36:02 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 24, 2008, 10:48:21 PM
Check out the team pages on the new NWC site (click on the logos at the top). On the right hand side of the header is an "N" in a circle with a little arrow pointing NW. Perhaps a NWC secondary logo of sorts? Whatever it is I like it!

http://www.nwcsports.com/members/george_fox/info

I like it! Looks like the NWC is doing bigger and better things, lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 25, 2008, 04:39:17 AM
Not sure why they went to a 4 team playoff...my guess would be that the coaches from the schools that tend to have less success want more teams in the NWC playoffs, so they feel like they have a better chance of making "playoffs"  I don't really like it.  First off we are never going to get 2 teams in, or maybe I should say the odds aren't good...Teams 3 and 4 are usually pretty good and it doesn't seem to reward the first place team at all for working hard during the year...anyone else have thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 25, 2008, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 24, 2008, 10:48:21 PM
Check out the team pages on the new NWC site (click on the logos at the top). On the right hand side of the header is an "N" in a circle with a little arrow pointing NW. Perhaps a NWC secondary logo of sorts? Whatever it is I like it!

http://www.nwcsports.com/members/george_fox/info

Yeah I like that to Pio 20, didn't notice it until you pointed it out, a little compass there......

Logshow, maybe this is the year NWC gets two in...  Only thing that will continue to make it tough is the balance that is going on in the league now, the league will probably beat each other up....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 25, 2008, 02:24:49 PM
Whitman with a 1st place vote, gee wonder which coach that came from?!? I mean Bridgeland knows his stuff, but they honestly don't have the talent to get it done this year, or even the next couple. Whitworth has some big shoes to fill for Symes and Willemson (the UPS press killer), so it will be interesting to see what kind of guys Hayford brought in for this year. Probably a couple more juco transfers. It will be interesting to see if the loggers can handle the expectations this year. With a team full of experienced upperclassmen and some talented freshmen, will the be able to avoid the second half collapse in conference that plagued them the past 2 year. It will also be interesting to see how much Lunt grows as a coach. With 2 years experience, hopefully there will be less mistakes.

As far as the 4 team tourney goes, I'm totally against it. I think it is only beneficial the mediocre teams that don't actually have a chance to win the conference. This may lead to the rest of the country and the NCAA not getting the best that the NWC has to offer if the 4th place team puts together 2 good/lucky games and gets the automatic bid. Maybe if it was like DI where tournament worthy teams don't have to win their conference tournament to get into the "big dance", but thats not the case. There's not much of an advantage to taking 1st in conference anymore.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 25, 2008, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on October 25, 2008, 02:24:49 PM
There's not much of an advantage to taking 1st in conference anymore.

I agree...hosting is a nice benefit, as demonstrated by WW's dismantling of UPS last year in the conference final.  But the team that wins the conference deserves to have a better reward then just hosting 2 games.  Why don't they just make it 7 teams and give the 1st place team a bye.  That way the 1st team still has to win 2 games but atleast they are rewarded for finishing first place.  Also that would let more teams into the NWC playoffs and I am sure that would appease the coaches that want to have a shot at the postseason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 27, 2008, 12:52:23 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on October 25, 2008, 02:24:49 PM
As far as the 4 team tourney goes, I'm totally against it. I think it is only beneficial the mediocre teams that don't actually have a chance to win the conference. This may lead to the rest of the country and the NCAA not getting the best that the NWC has to offer if the 4th place team puts together 2 good/lucky games and gets the automatic bid. Maybe if it was like DI where tournament worthy teams don't have to win their conference tournament to get into the "big dance", but thats not the case. There's not much of an advantage to taking 1st in conference anymore.

I agree but who is to say that a 4th place team can't get hot and go deep in the playoffs? If they can beat two better teams they could probably do well in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 27, 2008, 03:41:28 PM
Hello Everybody,

I decided to dust off the old keyboard for another hoops season in the NWC.  I dont have too much to contribute this early on, I have heard some talk of a couple solid freshman for UPS but overall I dont have much insider info. 

What i do know is that I strongly agree with the other Logger fans on this board, we have tons of talented returners hopefully this year they will grow a pair, do what is expected of them, and win the conference title.  I know they're more than capable of it talent wise and with their best players being seniors this year hopefully the leadership is in place to take care of business.  I've been expecting big things the last 2 years, but this year anything less than a NWC championship will be a real dissapointment....GO LOGGERS!!!

As with everyone else I'm interested to see what Bridgeland can put together over there in Walla Walla, I'm sure they will remain the wipping boys of the conference for a year or two, but after he has had a couple years to recruit im guessing the Missionairies will be pretty tough.  It took him 2 years to pull UPS out of the gutter and in his 3rd year make them a champion, any guesses on how long it will take at Whitman?  I'd say when his first batch of recruits are sophmores the rest of the league better start watching out.

I'm looking forward to a fun year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 27, 2008, 06:52:08 PM
This feels a lot like the football board, only with the UPS fans taking on the roll of the Linfield guys over there.  Why would it be a "real disappointment" if the loggers didn't win the conference?  You have had equally talented teams the last couple years and haven't won the conference championship...what makes this year different.  With yet another strong Whitworth team this year, I sure hope we don't find you hanging in your closet after the Bucs go to another national tourney with easily their deepest, most well-rounded team since '95.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 27, 2008, 07:07:42 PM
I think SoundLogs is just saying that UPS has lots of talent and hasn't put it to use yet...the seniors came in with lots of hype and haven't lived up to it.

Rat thats a bold statement...there have been some pretty good Bucs teams since 95.  I am interested why you feel that way...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 27, 2008, 11:50:25 PM
Time to start migrating over to the basketball board from the football board.  Looking forward to watching the Pirates play again this year.  I don't know anything specific about the newest Pirates, but I've heard they are very good.  But I think Nakamura will have a great year again, and get a little more respect for what he brings to the court.  He just doesn't make mistakes.  And I think David Riley will break out with a big shooting year.

I am not surprised UPS is favored in the coaches ranking.  They have the most back from last year.  But as some of the voices on this board have said, that group definitely has the most to prove.

Pacific will be tough.  The return of the big guy to go along with a proven scorer will make them my choice to make the playoffs as a third or fourth seed.

Not sure how I feel yet about the four-team playoff (have to see it play out once or twice).  I do wish they'd consider having all four teams play at the gym of the top seed to give it more of a conference tournament feel.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 28, 2008, 01:48:40 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on October 27, 2008, 06:52:08 PM
This feels a lot like the football board, only with the UPS fans taking on the roll of the Linfield guys over there.  Why would it be a "real disappointment" if the loggers didn't win the conference?  You have had equally talented teams the last couple years and haven't won the conference championship...what makes this year different.  With yet another strong Whitworth team this year, I sure hope we don't find you hanging in your closet after the Bucs go to another national tourney with easily their deepest, most well-rounded team since '95.

Pretty bold statement about your Whitworth squad there Rat. Filling the shoes of POY Symes and also Willemson (sp?) could be quite a task. I don't know what kind of guys Hayford reloaded with this year (probably some more Delta JC guys), Nakamura is just a solid guard who doesn't really make mistakes, but he needs other guys around him to finish the plays once the ball gets out of his hands. Riley is a good shooter, but in my opinion that was all he could do last year, when he put the ball on the floor against pressure it was a turnover waiting to happen. It will be interteresting to see his growth this year

I think what UPSoundlogs is saying is that it would be a real disappointment if the loggers don't win a conference title this year because guys like Foster and Williams are in their senior year. Guys from that class came in with a lot of hype surrounding them, but so far have won their only conference title riding the coat tails of McVey, Curtis, Buehler, and the older Walker during their freshman year.  The past 2 seasons we had no seniors and 3 seniors, but they were not star players. Walker, Wood, and Marsh were all good players, but with the exception of Marsh their job was not to score, it was as role players getting the ball to our big name guys. This is Williams and Fosters 3rd year as the teams stars and they haven't been able to get the loggers to the promise land. Which leaves their legacy as great individual players on underachieving teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 28, 2008, 09:26:37 PM
I just don't see how any team in this league can guard this installment of Pirate Basketball.  Nakumura is a much better shooter and more of a threat to score than his predecessor Williams.  You didn't get to see it much because of Symes but you can bet he'll get plenty of looks this year.  Yet, he is still good at holding onto the ball and not turning it over.  They have two very impressive shooters and most of the people around the program will tell you Sellereit is actually better from the 3-point line than Riley (scary thought) but gives up a few inches to Riley and didn't get more than a couple minutes in bunches last season making it hard to ever get into a rhythm.  Good luck running a zone against the Pirates with those three in the back court.  The newest addition is a 6'8" freshman from Germany that will be the most dominant big man in the conference once he gets his feet wet in Whitworth's system.  Montgomery and Jurich are back and will most likely be the starters as the season opens.  Sounds to me like two juco guys Bo Gregg and Troy Kalbhenn will also be fighting for pt and from what I've heard both of them play just like Willemsen (Hayford is great at replacing parts in his system from year to year).  I think the loss of Symes will hurt initially because it will be the first year they don't have that go-to forward who can put it in from anywhere on the court and take just about anyone to the rack (see Symes and Pecht), but I think as they continue to play together and Hayford gets a feel for what he's working with this will be a very tough team to beat.

I'm just curious to see how this team slows down UPS.  IMO that has been the key reason Whitworth has had success against the Loggers in recent years.  They've been very effective with their press and turning it into a half court game where UPS seems to struggle.  I don't see why losing Symes or Willemsen would change their ability to keep up with UPS defensively and the scoring will still be there even without Symes, so I don't see why Whitworth shouldn't beat UPS again.  Of course this is one, biased opinion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 29, 2008, 03:04:29 AM
Rat,

I have to agree with you, the WW absolutly dismantaled the UPS press last year (much more so then the year before).  But don't underestimate Williamsen's effectiveness against the press.  Nakumura was solid, and don't get me wrong I think he is a great player and very talented and heady.  But Williamsen, I feel, the one one who really made UPS pay for pressing.  Nakumura would get the ball across with no TOs and then do a great job of getting the ball to Symes.  Williamsen broke the press and then created easy/quick scoring opportunies.  If UPS still continues to press all game it will be interesting to see who can step up and create those easy buckets.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 29, 2008, 11:40:30 AM
"I think SoundLogs is just saying that UPS has lots of talent and hasn't put it to use yet...the seniors came in with lots of hype and haven't lived up to it."
-Logshow

"I think what UPSoundlogs is saying is that it would be a real disappointment if the loggers don't win a conference title this year because guys like Foster and Williams are in their senior year."
-Logshock

Thank you for helping to clarify my statements fellas, that is exactly what i meant.  There are some fantastic seniors on this UPS squad that just haven't lived up to what I thought they would do so far.  I would argue that they(Foster, Williams, Krauel) have more talent than McVey, Curtiss,Walker, etc. that won 3 straight NWC titles and got to the elite 8 in 2006.  I've been expecting big things from this current group for the last 2 years and they have been really good, just not dominant.  I'd love for them to take the next step and really dominate.  It sounds like they will have their work cut out for them, if what Rat says is true WW is gonna be VERY tough once again.  (I gotta admit, im very impressed with how WW reloads every single year :-\)

Logshock,
Welcome to the clan, It's always nice to build upon the group of Logger fans on this board.  It sounds like you may be pretty close to the team, I'm sure you'll have some good info for us along the way!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 29, 2008, 11:44:30 AM
As a side note, my karma is back to 0!!!  I feel like a new man!!!  I have made quite the comeback since being down to an all time low of -33.  I guess staying out of arguments with the "Hall of Famers" has probably helped me out some ;D :D 8).  Thanks to anyone who has helped my journey back to zero.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 29, 2008, 01:44:36 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on October 29, 2008, 11:44:30 AM
As a side note, my karma is back to 0!!!  I feel like a new man!!!  I have made quite the comeback since being down to an all time low of -33.  I guess staying out of arguments with the "Hall of Famers" has probably helped me out some ;D :D 8).  Thanks to anyone who has helped my journey back to zero.

Well things are looking up for you SoundLogs  :)

Here's one more for ya...get back in the green!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 29, 2008, 01:48:47 PM
SoundLogs, also wanted to mention...you only have 46 more posts till you can start dishing out Karma yourself  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 29, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
UPSoundLogs,

I can agree with you from what I remember that Foster/Williams/Krauel is more talented than the McVey/Curtiss/Walker group, but that McVey/Curtiss/Walker trio had something going for them that Foster/Williams/Krauel haven't had since their freshman year - Bridgeland.

The last several posts have reconfirmed one thing - UPS and Whitworth are good and a lock to own 2 of the 4 playoffs spots......  Who gets the 3rd and 4th?  Pineconefan I'm with you that my Boxers will get one......

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 29, 2008, 05:30:18 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 29, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
UPSoundLogs,

I can agree with you from what I remember that Foster/Williams/Krauel is more talented than the McVey/Curtiss/Walker group, but that McVey/Curtiss/Walker trio had something going for them that Foster/Williams/Krauel haven't had since their freshman year - Bridgeland.

While it is true that a more seasoned coach may not have made some of the same mistakes that Lunt did in his first 2 years, almost all the players were happier to have Lunt in control than Bridgeland.  Lunt is much more personable and can actually be told your opinion where as you had to tell Bridgeland what he wanted to hear.

All that aside, the players are the ones who actually play/win games. In my opinion the major difference between the Foster/Williams/Krauel group and McVey/Curtiss/Walker group is mental toughness. When things got tough, the latter group dug down deep and found a way to win. My guess is that it developed during their 1st year or two when sh*t hit the fan when they were a .500 team as opposed to coming in winning a conference title and making the elite 8 during their freshmen year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 29, 2008, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on October 29, 2008, 05:30:18 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 29, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
UPSoundLogs,

I can agree with you from what I remember that Foster/Williams/Krauel is more talented than the McVey/Curtiss/Walker group, but that McVey/Curtiss/Walker trio had something going for them that Foster/Williams/Krauel haven't had since their freshman year - Bridgeland.

While it is true that a more seasoned coach may not have made some of the same mistakes that Lunt did in his first 2 years, almost all the players were happier to have Lunt in control than Bridgeland.  Lunt is much more personable and can actually be told your opinion where as you had to tell Bridgeland what he wanted to hear.

All that aside, the players are the ones who actually play/win games. In my opinion the major difference between the Foster/Williams/Krauel group and McVey/Curtiss/Walker group is mental toughness. When things got tough, the latter group dug down deep and found a way to win. My guess is that it developed during their 1st year or two when sh*t hit the fan when they were a .500 team as opposed to coming in winning a conference title and making the elite 8 during their freshmen year.

Logshock, yes Bridgeland was more seasoned as you mentioned, and the players may be happier playing for Lunt, and I don't know either, just what I saw on the sidelines, and what you say is probably true too - that Lunt is much more personable......  Yet as you mention the major difference is mental toughness, when things got tough the first group dug down deep and found a way to win, that's a reflection of the coach......  A team takes on the personality of its coach, and from your assessment that first group had a bigger set of you know what, thanks a big part to its coach.....  Bridgeland's job was not to be their friends but to make them champions... 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 29, 2008, 10:06:59 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 29, 2008, 05:44:26 PM

Logshock, yes Bridgeland was more seasoned as you mentioned, and the players may be happier playing for Lunt, and I don't know either, just what I saw on the sidelines, and what you say is probably true too - that Lunt is much more personable......  Yet as you mention the major difference is mental toughness, when things got tough the first group dug down deep and found a way to win, that's a reflection of the coach......  A team takes on the personality of its coach, and from your assessment that first group had a bigger set of you know what, thanks a big part to its coach.....  Bridgeland's job was not to be their friends but to make them champions... 

True...although I feel that Lunt can be just as intense at practice, his players doesn't seem to have the fear that he might just go psycho flipout and pile drive a player into the court and/or turn suicidal.

Maybe once this group of seniors is gone, players will not longer look at him as "just Coach Lunt" since he used to be the good guy assistant coach, the buffer between good and evil. Once this class is gone they will all be Lunts guys that he brought in as the head hancho.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on October 30, 2008, 12:30:43 AM
i worked at ups for a long time and was around athletics for over a decade there.  bridgeland was the best i ever saw.  now doubt he was intense, but what i gathered the players that played for him would have killed for him if he needed them to. if i recall, coach lunt was bridgelands 2nd or 3rd assitant adn joined the team after he had already won 1 conference crown and contributed to the last 2. i am sure coach lunt is improving yearly, but i dont see a reason to bash bridgeland or make up stories.  as a communicator or whatevr--all i know is that athlteics was dead before he arrived at ups and now they win
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 30, 2008, 12:37:28 AM
Whitworth's Season preview is up...Ready to Rise Again - Whitworth Shoots for Third Straight Title (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/08_09/Outlook.htm)


The paragraph about Nakamura explains exactly why nobody missed B Williams (by the way Logshow, were you talking about Williams or Willemsen???).  Ross led the nation in assist-turnover ratio and shot a "respectable" .429 from beyond the arc...nobody from UPS last year who attempted over 50 3-pointers can match Nakamura's percentage (out of 105 attempts).

Riley one up's Nakamura in 3-point shooting by hitting .431 on 150 attempts...and again, people in the program seem to think Sellereit is a better shooter if he sees consistent minutes (scary).  Jurich played very well last season and defended Foster well on two occasions even though he is the smallest of the post players.  He is however a much more polished technician than either of the other post players and will most likely see start early in the season and see significant playing time all year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 30, 2008, 02:14:04 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 29, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
UPSoundLogs,

I can agree with you from what I remember that Foster/Williams/Krauel is more talented than the McVey/Curtiss/Walker group, but that McVey/Curtiss/Walker trio had something going for them that Foster/Williams/Krauel haven't had since their freshman year - Bridgeland.

The last several posts have reconfirmed one thing - UPS and Whitworth are good and a lock to own 2 of the 4 playoffs spots......  Who gets the 3rd and 4th?  Pineconefan I'm with you that my Boxers will get one......



Wow--where are you living, Fantasy Land?  FB season isn't even over, there hasn't been a single BB game and yet, you all know who is going to be in the top 3 or 4 spots!  Amazing!  Have you been in the NWC long?  If you have, you'll know that on any given night, even a crappy team can take out a top team like Whitworth or whoever!

Don't underestimate Coach James & his Bearcats!   So, when you're making plans --- make plans to travel to Salem, OR in there somewhere!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 30, 2008, 02:58:29 AM
Quote from: mtnman on October 30, 2008, 12:30:43 AM
i worked at ups for a long time and was around athletics for over a decade there.  bridgeland was the best i ever saw.  now doubt he was intense, but what i gathered the players that played for him would have killed for him if he needed them to. if i recall, coach lunt was bridgelands 2nd or 3rd assitant adn joined the team after he had already won 1 conference crown and contributed to the last 2. i am sure coach lunt is improving yearly, but i dont see a reason to bash bridgeland or make up stories.  as a communicator or whatevr--all i know is that athlteics was dead before he arrived at ups and now they win

mtnman

im not sure what you did for your job at UPS or how well you know bridgeland if at all, but one of his biggest things that he always talked about was brutal reality. if you think im making up stories and bashing him, you might was to think again, im just telling it like it is, something that he always preached. example for you: during his time here at UPS, womens coach suzy barcomb wanted nothing to do with any of the mens players. getting a hi in response is about all you could get from her. now a days suzy seems to be quite a bit more friendly to players on the mens team, because there isnt the same tension in the athletic office that there used to be. anyways my point is that not only were things tense between coach and player, but even in the office as well. some players, though they are few and far between, might have "killed for him if he needed them to". in his time he burned a lot of bridges here. anyways my point here is not criticize bridgeland and say that he is a bad coach, because he is not, hes a good coach who has a great knowledge of the game. i know if he was just an intense coach and a decent guy, his players might have hated him while they were playing for him and then had undying loyalty for him once they saw how much he genuinly cared for them after they finished their careers (a la  Bobby Knight), but that wasn't the case. His personality off the court could be very bipolar and at times seem as if he might just flip out. Few players that i know still remain in contact with him, this includes the ones finished out their eligibility.

But enough of that...

Rat do you think that WWs shooters might struggle a bit this season for 2 reasons:
1) the deeper 3 point line
and more importantly
2) the loss of symes. he was money anywhere inside 15 ft which means teams would have to double down to get the ball out of his hands and that would leave your perimeter players with open looks at the hoop? or do u have a replacement for symes that will warrant such attention from 15 ft in?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 11:14:31 AM
bbadict,

"Wow--where are you living, Fantasy Land?"

I actually live in east Portland, thanks.

"FB season isn't even over, there hasn't been a single BB game and yet..."

Who cares, this is a basketball board.

"you all know who is going to be in the top 3 or 4 spots!  Amazing!"

Actually we don't, that's why they're called predictions, and that's why this is a board....  Yet with that said, with the league now taking 4 teams, I will stick to my prediction and say that Whitworth and UPS are locks to go to the tourney (baring multiple serious injuries), simply means that neither will finish in 5th place or lower.....

"Have you been in the NWC long?"

Roughly 7 or 8 years, not long..........

"If you have, you'll know that on any given night, even a crappy team can take out a top team like Whitworth or whoever!"

You're absolutely right, just like I mentioned in a previous post - UPS over the last two years lost to Whitman and George Fox at home......  Nobody said a crappy team couldn't take out a top team, matter of fact I think there will be pretty good balance again, as I posted earlier.....  Nevertheless if some of the top teams slip up on a night or two, I still don't see Whitworth or UPS finishing 5th place or lower, hence missing the playoffs.  Do you?

"Don't underestimate Coach James & his Bearcats!   So, when you're making plans --- make plans to travel to Salem, OR in there somewhere!"

Never have and I won't, I think Coach James is one of the best in the conference.  I will make plans to go to Salem.....  Will meet you for a cold adult beverage before a game if you calm down a bit  ;D....  I know your football team is on fire, so I can understand your excitement!

Welcome back to the board......

Logshock,

Thanks for the insight, that's awesome info......

Not to answer the question you threw to Rat but I had the same questions cross my mind too....  Go look at the free-throw attempts by not only Symes but Willemson last year, that means they were in the heart of the defense making a ton happen for themselves and opening up shots for everyone, the big question is can anyone of their new guys pick up those roles......




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on October 30, 2008, 11:21:09 AM
logshock,

i am a ups fan, always have been and have been since bridgland was at ups.  i became good friends with him and even went to his wedding.  there were are at least 20-25 current adn ex players at that wedding. so i am not sure where you are getting your information frm. i doubt it that players former and current would make that trip, the wedding was in california, if they didn't love him.i worked in teh athletic building for over half of my time there and can tell you that if the playrs were that unhappy playing for bridgland, they woudlnt have won or kept getting awesome talent year after year. by the way, looks like we're heading straight to the bottom of the nwc if coach lunt doesnt start recruiting soon...
as far as your comments about his communication skills or being 'personible', i don;t think you can be a good coach without good communication skills, or recruiting skills.  to  me it seems like those go hand in hand.  as for the womens coach, suzy, i am sure she likes it a lot better with bridgland gone because she was always in bridglands shadow-she doens't have to worry bout being 2nd fiddle anymore.  in my time there the women ran that place.

will leave you with this: it seems like you are a disgruntled player or something that never seemed to cut it with bridgland and like being friends more than winning.  doesnt ups offer intramurals? or you could just have the players coach the team so that no one ever yells at them or pushes them?   it appears you werent part of 3 straigt nwc championshps -get over it and live in the present.

peace
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 11:27:17 AM
Sorry Logshock,

The last part of my last post was a thanks to you for the insight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 11:31:07 AM
Also Logshock,

"im not sure what you did for your job at UPS or how well you know bridgeland if at all, but one of his biggest things that he always talked about was brutal reality."

That's funny to hear, because I don't think picking Whitman 1st was brutally reality  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 11:34:52 AM
Great stuff mtman and logshock.....

If I was in the school yard I'd be yelling "Fight, fight!!!"  lol  ;) :D

Wow, I'm getting excited for the season.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 30, 2008, 12:21:06 PM
I really hate to agree with NWCer, but I will.  I think Eric Bridgeland is to be feared whatever team he coaches.   As for whether or not he's a friendly guy -- who cares?  He's a coach.  And a successful one in this conference.   I don't think it will take him 3-4 years to get his team going, either, as he already knows the conference and the coaching style of his opponents.   

His choice of Whitman?  Maybe he likes the fresh air in Walla Walla -- and it's a tough economy, maybe not much else is available.  UPS wasn't a super star basketball program when he went there -- maybe he likes a huge challenge.  (Although I think Whitman has been a better team over the years than their W/L suggests.  Maybe a new coach . . .)

I am so looking forward to DIII basketball!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
I don't hate agreeing with you bbadict!

As far as Bridgeland picking Whitman 1st, I was referring to the first place vote Whitman got in the preseason coaching poll (which he undoubtedly punched)....  Don't think that was brutally realistic....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 30, 2008, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on October 29, 2008, 11:44:30 AM
As a side note, my karma is back to 0!!!  I feel like a new man!!!  I have made quite the comeback since being down to an all time low of -33.  I guess staying out of arguments with the "Hall of Famers" has probably helped me out some ;D :D 8).  Thanks to anyone who has helped my journey back to zero.

I gave you a karmic reset because I felt you'd put that stuff behind you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 01:31:17 PM
"I gave you a karmic reset because I felt you'd put that stuff behind you."
-PC

Holy cow!  I've even gotten back into Pat's good graces! :o ;D ;)  "I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!(Leo, Titanic, front of the boat scene)"

Lucky Day, Thanks Pat!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 01:47:48 PM
mtman and logshock,

I'm enjoying the bridgeland debate!  Both of you have great inside info, but obviously on very opposite ends of the opinion spectrum.

Without going into too much detail ill put my two sense in on the matter.  Long story short I think I'm right in the middle of your points of view, but leaning towards Logshock(fyi, I am by no means a disgruntled player ;))  Bridgeland was a win at all costs coach to the EXTREME, he didnt care who he offended or if his players liked him.  He just had to win, it was like a crazed obsession.  He certainly won alot but he also left many MANY pissed of people and players in his wake.  I kind of look at it as a "take it for what it is" situation.  We had lots of great experiences, very succesful teams, and an extrememly tight nit group of players because bridgeland was the way he was.  Some people would say it wasnt worth it, i personally wouldn't trade it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 02:04:13 PM
NWCer,

You crack me up, you are always so polite and complimentary until someone (aka bbaddict) rubs you the wrong way then you let them have it...followed by something like, "I will meet you for a cold adult beverage before a game if you calm down a bit  ....  I know your football team is on fire, so I can understand your excitement!" It's hilarious.  Along with Oxybob from the SCIAC and Oldschool from the WIAC board your posts are my favorite.  Keep up the good stuff, I'm trying to get to 200 posts simply so i can throw some karma your way :D.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 30, 2008, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
I don't hate agreeing with you bbadict!

As far as Bridgeland picking Whitman 1st, I was referring to the first place vote Whitman got in the preseason coaching poll (which he undoubtedly punched)....  Don't think that was brutally realistic....

Of course you don't hate agreeing with me, NWCer -- you never do!  Maybe the first place vote for Whitman was Bridgeland being optimistic or maybe it was some other coach trying to shake things up -- who know? 

The preseason poll is interesting, but I'm more interested in what plays out on the court.

On another note:  Are you OLD enough for adult beverages?  I wouldn't want to get arrested.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 30, 2008, 02:36:03 PM
mtn man
i get it bridgeland is your dogg, in your eyes he can do no wrong. he must of stroked you off just enough to keep you loyal. which he didnt do for most. im going to leave u with this thought: whenever bridgeland got married sometime between 04 and 06, yeah some players went to his wedding, the ones who lived in CA already. just think about the number of players that came into the program and who finished out there eligibility starting in 03 when i really started following the program he brought in around 7 guys, 4 of which finished out their eligibility (one of which was a juco). 04 had 10 new faces, 3 who played out their eligibility (again one was a juco). 05 brought 4 new guys, 1 finished. when not even half (closer to 1/3) of the guys you bring in quit that says something to me, especially since these are guys that he brought in...i am certainly not a disgruntled former, in the time ive been affiliated with ups i have countless good memories. but the truth is plain and simple i know more about this situation than you do. my sources put me right on the front line while u watch from the furthest corners of memorial fieldhouse.

UPSoundlogs you nailed my point right on the head thank you for taking the words out of my brain and putting them on paper!

NWCer
apparently brutal reality is just something that he preaches to his players not something he practices 


only 16 more days til game day!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 02:40:51 PM
"UPSoundlogs you nailed my point right on the head thank you for taking the words out of my brain and putting them on paper!"
-Logshock

No Problem, I do what I can do, when I can do it.

Additionally, I think im the only idiot around here that hasn't figured out how to use the quote boxes. after many botched attempts i always end up cutting and pasting with quotatioin marks....anyone care to enlighten me?  This is admittedly embarrassing, but what can I say I'm a little slow.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 02:51:10 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 02:40:51 PM
"UPSoundlogs you nailed my point right on the head thank you for taking the words out of my brain and putting them on paper!"
-Logshock

No Problem, I do what I can do, when I can do it.



Classic quote there SoundLogs - Chris Tucker in Money Talks!!  "His first, his last, his everything.....  That was beautiful, you know - 'I do, what I can do, when I can do it"  Good stuff.

Also thanks for the shout SoundLogs, it's all good on the board, fun stuff, thankfully Pat gave us this outlet, this board got me engaged and has made me a HUGE D3 fan, gotten me out to more games, made me a legitimate Pacific backer (after only having ties to the program because a family member played there several years back)......

So you can dish out Karma when you get to 200?!  Didn't know that came with being a starter, gotta start exercising that privilege....

Bbadict,

I'm old enough my man!! Any good microbreweries in Salem?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 30, 2008, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 02:40:51 PM
"UPSoundlogs you nailed my point right on the head thank you for taking the words out of my brain and putting them on paper!"
-Logshock

No Problem, I do what I can do, when I can do it.

Additionally, I think im the only idiot around here that hasn't figured out how to use the quote boxes. after many botched attempts i always end up cutting and pasting with quotatioin marks....anyone care to enlighten me?  This is admittedly embarrassing, but what can I say I'm a little slow.



You're not slow -- there's just a lot to figure out on these boards.  If you click the "quote" in the upper right hand corner it quotes the whole thing and provides a link to the other person's post.  Sometimes I delete some of it but you have to be careful to do it between the "quote" marks and it's easy to mess it up.

If you want to become truly proficient, there's a help button at the top of D3boards that will take you to a place that has more information than you'd ever want, IMHO.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 30, 2008, 04:00:47 PM
In other news...http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/roster
The LC bball roster is up. Can't really judge anything from last year...it is a very different team this year. We'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 30, 2008, 04:00:47 PM
In other news...http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/roster
The LC bball roster is up. Can't really judge anything from last year...it is a very different team this year. We'll have to wait and see.

Thanks Pio20....

Interesting, the names on the rosters don't equal the amount of guys in the photo, and on neither did I see the transfer they got from Western Oregon a couple years back - Allen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 30, 2008, 04:44:44 PM
wow i dont check the board for a day and it blows up...thats great! :D

I like that we got so many people posting
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 30, 2008, 04:46:36 PM
Rat,

I was talking bout Colin Willemsen...heck of a player and pretty underrated in my book.  Logshock was right Symes and Willemsen made lots and lots of easy scoring opportunities for WW last year...I think it will be very interesting to see how WW does without their two workhorses...no doubt they will still be very good though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on October 30, 2008, 06:05:06 PM
logshock

yes.  i imagine it would take a special student athlete, a dedicated one, to make it in a program, which from what i remember had the highest winnng % in the country at one point.  i guess winning comes wth a price tag - and if a player doesn't want to pay it, he wont last.

boo hoo.  at least im retired adn have a hour or two to get on here now - whats your excuse?  is it intermission between intremural games?

what a baby.  my guess is we or i wont hear from you after bridglands seniors graduate this year ever again.  i am with you tho, its not fun to follow a losing program. guess we can thank bridgland for bringing people, and an intrameral all star to this board.

boo hoo.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 30, 2008, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
I don't hate agreeing with you bbadict!

As far as Bridgeland picking Whitman 1st, I was referring to the first place vote Whitman got in the preseason coaching poll (which he undoubtedly punched)....  Don't think that was brutally realistic....

Is a coach really allowed to slot his own team in the NWC preseason poll? In other coach-derived preseason polls of which I'm aware (the CCIW, for starters), a coach does not slot his own team. He simply predicts the order in which the other seven teams will finish, and he therefore isn't tempted to either inflate his own team's potential or to sandbag by picking his own team lower than he knows it's likely to finish.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 06:16:56 PM
Greg,

I was wondering that exact same thing, I have no idea what the answer is for certain, but I would assume that a coach couldn't vote for their own team.  With that said, if the coaches do vote for thier own team Bridgeland would definitely vote for Whitman as #1. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 30, 2008, 06:35:29 PM
Quote from: mtnman on October 30, 2008, 06:05:06 PM
logshock

yes.  i imagine it would take a special student athlete, a dedicated one, to make it in a program, which from what i remember had the highest winnng % in the country at one point.  i guess winning comes wth a price tag - and if a player doesn't want to pay it, he wont last.

boo hoo.  at least im retired adn have a hour or two to get on here now - whats your excuse?  is it intermission between intremural games?

what a baby.  my guess is we or i wont hear from you after bridglands seniors graduate this year ever again.  i am with you tho, its not fun to follow a losing program. guess we can thank bridgland for bringing people, and an intrameral all star to this board.

boo hoo.




This is getting pretty old.  I am by no means sensative, I like to make fun of people and debate/argue/banter about our teams just as much as the next guy, but the "Boo hoo's" and over the top childish attacks towards Logshock are pretty sad.  You seem like a serious Logger fan that has good information about the program and its great to have you in on our discussions.  Now how about acting like the retiree that you claim to be and posting something other than lame attempts at insulting people....and then we can go out after a game and grab an adult beverage at a local Tacoma bar of your choosing!(figured id take a page out of NWCer's book ;))
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 30, 2008, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 30, 2008, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
I don't hate agreeing with you bbadict!

As far as Bridgeland picking Whitman 1st, I was referring to the first place vote Whitman got in the preseason coaching poll (which he undoubtedly punched)....  Don't think that was brutally realistic....

Is a coach really allowed to slot his own team in the NWC preseason poll? In other coach-derived preseason polls of which I'm aware (the CCIW, for starters), a coach does not slot his own team. He simply predicts the order in which the other seven teams will finish, and he therefore isn't tempted to either inflate his own team's potential or to sandbag by picking his own team lower than he knows it's likely to finish.

Greg
Coaches are allowed to vote for their own team in the NWC preseason poll. Strange I know, but here is proof

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2005-06/05mbbpoll
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 30, 2008, 07:25:13 PM
UPSoundlogs
You're my boy blue! I'd like to join you for a cold adult beverage before any game in tacoma or after to celebrate another logger victory.

As the mantra goes: Once A Logger, Always A Logger!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 30, 2008, 07:39:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 30, 2008, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
I don't hate agreeing with you bbadict!

As far as Bridgeland picking Whitman 1st, I was referring to the first place vote Whitman got in the preseason coaching poll (which he undoubtedly punched)....  Don't think that was brutally realistic....

Is a coach really allowed to slot his own team in the NWC preseason poll? In other coach-derived preseason polls of which I'm aware (the CCIW, for starters), a coach does not slot his own team. He simply predicts the order in which the other seven teams will finish, and he therefore isn't tempted to either inflate his own team's potential or to sandbag by picking his own team lower than he knows it's likely to finish.

Where's Steve Flegel when you need him?  He always knows the answers to these kind of questions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 08:22:21 PM
Yeah, as Logshock pointed out with the 05-06 preseason poll, LC was also a unanimous pick to win it in 07-08 (http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2007-08/07mbbpoll), they got 9 first place votes, 9 coaches in the league, so it means all vote 1-9 giving them the right to put themselves 1st or wherever else they want to.  This is right below the rankings - (First-place votes in parenthesis. Points awarded on 10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 basis).

Logshow, yeah you've been missing all the action, two new Logger supporters going at it!  All good though, at least you guys have 4 supporters out there if my math is correct.........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 31, 2008, 12:48:22 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on October 30, 2008, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 30, 2008, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
I don't hate agreeing with you bbadict!

As far as Bridgeland picking Whitman 1st, I was referring to the first place vote Whitman got in the preseason coaching poll (which he undoubtedly punched)....  Don't think that was brutally realistic....

Is a coach really allowed to slot his own team in the NWC preseason poll? In other coach-derived preseason polls of which I'm aware (the CCIW, for starters), a coach does not slot his own team. He simply predicts the order in which the other seven teams will finish, and he therefore isn't tempted to either inflate his own team's potential or to sandbag by picking his own team lower than he knows it's likely to finish.

Greg
Coaches are allowed to vote for their own team in the NWC preseason poll. Strange I know, but here is proof

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2005-06/05mbbpoll

Thanks, logshock. Can't say that I agree with the NWC's methodology, which I think is ripe for abuse ... but, then again, it's not my league, so it's no skin off my nose. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 31, 2008, 02:21:08 AM
Quote from: mtnman on October 30, 2008, 06:05:06 PM
logshock

yes.  i imagine it would take a special student athlete, a dedicated one, to make it in a program, which from what i remember had the highest winnng % in the country at one point.  i guess winning comes wth a price tag - and if a player doesn't want to pay it, he wont last.

boo hoo.  at least im retired adn have a hour or two to get on here now - whats your excuse?  is it intermission between intremural games?

what a baby.  my guess is we or i wont hear from you after bridglands seniors graduate this year ever again.  i am with you tho, its not fun to follow a losing program. guess we can thank bridgland for bringing people, and an intrameral all star to this board.

boo hoo.

mtnman
Im above attempting to make personal attacks on this board, which im not quite sure what i did to offend u so bad. i never said anything about u and am entitled to voice my own opinion. I didnt know the D3 boards were part of communist Russia where you couldn't speak your thoughts and had to conform to what people say your supposed to believe...Im far from a fair weather fan, proof of this is the fact that every saturday i sit down and cheer on my beloved winless huskies. Also I didn't know being retired was a prereq for posting on this board. we're not talking about social security or medicade, its college basketball, I thought being a diehard logger fan who has lived and breathed by logger basketball the past 6 years was good enough for me to be able to post on here. Ill be cheering on Lunt and  the loggers until the day my casket drops...But at least u got one right. im not only an intermural all star, but also an IM champion. I took down a crown in IM soccer during my years at UPS, so thank you for noticing, it is about time i started getting some respect for my skills  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 02:55:55 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 08:22:21 PM


Logshow, yeah you've been missing all the action, two new Logger supporters going at it!  All good though, at least you guys have 4 supporters out there if my math is correct.........

I know this board is getting crazy!  I wish I could be in the middle of it...but by the time I checked again we had cycled to a new page, I can't even keep up with all that is going on.  Maybe I am getting old...lol :D.  I love it though...so much better then in years past.  I do like seeing all the Logger faithful out in force.  Wish there were a few more from your boxers :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 02:58:56 AM
So I think UPS plays Eastern Washington in their exhibition...any other schools have a D1 oppnent?

I would love for the Logs to win, but its gonna take a lot of magic..but hey they knock off UC Riverside a few years ago...McVey was even on the front page of this very website after that win 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 03:01:06 AM
NWCer, I can't believe you didn't know you can give karma now that you are up off the bench!  Make good use of it my friend...with great power comes great responsibility...lol :P

Here +1 for having funny posts...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 31, 2008, 03:30:06 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 30, 2008, 04:00:47 PM
In other news...http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/roster
The LC bball roster is up. Can't really judge anything from last year...it is a very different team this year. We'll have to wait and see.

Thanks Pio20....

Interesting, the names on the rosters don't equal the amount of guys in the photo, and on neither did I see the transfer they got from Western Oregon a couple years back - Allen.

Yeah a couple players quit. Allen is among them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 31, 2008, 10:11:48 AM
Quote from: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 02:58:56 AM
So I think UPS plays Eastern Washington in their exhibition...any other schools have a D1 oppnent?

I would love for the Logs to win, but its gonna take a lot of magic..but hey they knock off UC Riverside a few years ago...McVey was even on the front page of this very website after that win 8)

LC almost beat portland state last year(it might have been 2 years ago i cant remember)!  Its always fun when a small school beats a D1.  Eastern is definitely beatable in my opinion, especially now that Stuckey has moved on to the NBA.  The Loggers will need to be on their A game, but I would love for them to make a good game out of it...maybe they can make the D3hoops front page again!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 31, 2008, 10:14:31 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 31, 2008, 03:30:06 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 30, 2008, 04:00:47 PM
In other news...http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/roster
The LC bball roster is up. Can't really judge anything from last year...it is a very different team this year. We'll have to wait and see.

Thanks Pio20....

Interesting, the names on the rosters don't equal the amount of guys in the photo, and on neither did I see the transfer they got from Western Oregon a couple years back - Allen.

Yeah a couple players quit. Allen is among them.

Any idea why guys are jumping ship? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 11:12:55 AM
Quote from: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 02:58:56 AM
So I think UPS plays Eastern Washington in their exhibition...any other schools have a D1 oppnent?

I would love for the Logs to win, but its gonna take a lot of magic..but hey they knock off UC Riverside a few years ago...McVey was even on the front page of this very website after that win 8)

Logshow,

Pacific is at Boise State in a couple weeks, LC has Portland State again, I think those are the only other two.....

Let me find out how to get the Karma distribution going so I can go to work!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 31, 2008, 01:00:44 PM
It's easy -- I just +k'd your karma.  You click on "applaud" or "smite" on someone's karma and that does it.  Only once every 24 hours though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 01:07:23 PM
Thanks Bbaddict, right back at ya

Wow, we've come a long way in 48 hours, I've went from living in fantasy land to exchanging Karma  ;)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 01:08:52 PM
Dang!   Can't give myself Karma!  I was trying to pull a Bridgeland  ;) ;D ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 31, 2008, 02:00:52 PM
The impression i got from speaking with Lunt right around the time practices began, was that the UPS vs Eastern game could be an ugly one. By that I mean there might be fouls than points scored. Lunt hadn't planned on cleaning things up at practice until after the Eastern game, but maybe he has changed his mind since that time. In my opinion, UPS is pretty thin on the front line now that Kevin Wright isn't playing. So if Foster, Boyce, and/or Krauel get into foul trouble, which has been frequent in the past, the loggers are gonna have to fall back on a freshman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 31, 2008, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 01:08:52 PM
Dang!   Can't give myself Karma!  I was trying to pull a Bridgeland  ;) ;D ::)

I think that's a safety feature -- so we don't hurt ourselves!! :) 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 31, 2008, 02:29:46 PM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on October 31, 2008, 10:14:31 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 31, 2008, 03:30:06 AM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2008, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on October 30, 2008, 04:00:47 PM
In other news...http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/roster
The LC bball roster is up. Can't really judge anything from last year...it is a very different team this year. We'll have to wait and see.

Thanks Pio20....

Interesting, the names on the rosters don't equal the amount of guys in the photo, and on neither did I see the transfer they got from Western Oregon a couple years back - Allen.

Yeah a couple players quit. Allen is among them.

Any idea why guys are jumping ship? 

They are all seniors who have never gotten any PT and were headed for the same fate this season. And yes it was last year the Pios lost to Portland State 61-60.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 02:38:42 PM
logshock

"Expecting eastern wash and ups an ugly one?"  i would expect our loggers to give eastern washington a good game.  we have the whole roster returning dont we? antwahn and foster are 1st all conf players and eastern is not very good from what i can see.  what happended to kevin wright?  he was really good when i watched him...  maybe coach lunt was too hard on him? dang.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 02:49:51 PM
kevin write gone from ups... you know it is never a good thing player does not return (a GOOD player) - some one told me that once .  i also dont see jordan thuston or clif snider on the roster any more either... bridgland must have come back from teh dead and 'brutal realitied' them and made them leave team! (sorry i got that term from logshock)

oh.  by the way.  IF bridgland did vote his team #1, what is bad about that?

i will protect bridgland...alot of negativity coming his way for what? from logger fans too...not me i apprecaite what he did for my ups
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 31, 2008, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 02:38:42 PM
logshock

"Expecting eastern wash and ups an ugly one?"  i would expect our loggers to give eastern washington a good game.  we have the whole roster returning dont we? antwahn and foster are 1st all conf players and eastern is not very good from what i can see.  what happended to kevin wright?  he was really good when i watched him...  maybe coach lunt was too hard on him? dang.

Did u even read what I wrote? Or are you just so quick to criticize me that you are oblivious to what I even wrote. I didn't say anything about UPS not giving Eastern a run for their money. I said ugly as in lots of fouls. Just because Eastern might not be a very good team this season doesn't change the fact that they still have a team full of scholarship athletes who are considered good enough to play at the D1 level. If we can hang with them thats fantastic. But heres the thing an all conference player can't do anything when he's on the bench because of foul trouble.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 31, 2008, 04:25:04 PM
Now, that would be a truly new development -- a UPS team committing lots of fouls -- wow, that's news!  No, wait - it's news when the fouls actually get called.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 04:28:25 PM
mtman, relax, come join me and bbadict for a cold adult beverage once you calm down.  ;)

What is bad about Bridgeland picking his Missionaries 1st?  Nothing I guess, don't think there's anything bad, he can do what he wants, he was asked to rank 1-9 so its his prerogative, just that they have no way in hell of winning conference this year..... That's all.... It's rather funny actually......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 31, 2008, 04:36:02 PM
You have to admit, NWCer, that it WILL get interesting with Bridgeland at Whitman.  I think they'll win games, instead of being the NWC spoiler of past years.  They've had talent there-- just enough to scare you when you play them.

So, this is Lowrey's 4th year.  Great expectations from that?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 04:52:23 PM
I'm not hating on Bridgeland, the guy was 44-4 and won 3 titles from 04-06 with an elite 8 appearance, that's awesome....  He's good, and Whitman will be much better I'm anticipating, I think they could finish as high as 6th actually this year, but 1st is a bit out of the question for 08-09.

Yes, this being Lowery's 4th year, his players, going thru the conference 3 times, and having Howe and Bartlett together after the 3rd place log jam finish last year, I'm expecting very good things this season, can't wait to get out to "the Grove"......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 31, 2008, 05:11:06 PM
Quote from: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 02:49:51 PM
kevin write gone from ups... you know it is never a good thing player does not return (a GOOD player) - some one told me that once .  i also dont see jordan thuston or clif snider on the roster any more either... bridgland must have come back from teh dead and 'brutal realitied' them and made them leave team! (sorry i got that term from logshock)

oh.  by the way.  IF bridgland did vote his team #1, what is bad about that?

i will protect bridgland...alot of negativity coming his way for what? from logger fans too...not me i apprecaite what he did for my ups

Before you go on talking about players who are no longer on the team, Maybe you should take into consideration people might have found things they consider more important than playing basketball. Family and religious beliefs are 2 priorities that immediately come to my mind. Or another thing is that maybe these guys just didn't have the love for the game anymore that is needed to play out a 6 month season. It definitely is a grind. They aren't transfering schools and continuing to play basketball. Kevin, JT, and Cliff are some of the nicest young men that I have met in my time at UPS. Why criticize them for not playing hoops anymore? I believe that Cliff and JT got enough brutal reality in their 1 season to last them a lifetime.

Once again everything I said was truthful. UPSoundlogs was able to put my words on paper better than I was, so maybe u need to go back and take a look at what he said again. It wasn't knocking Bridge, just telling it how it is.

As for your second point about what wrong with voting for your own team...Well nothing if you actually have a chance to win it all. I think Owen Wilson said it best "I'd like to be cowboys from Arizona or pimps from Oakland but it's not Halloween. Grow up; Peter Pan, Count Chocula." People might want to check me into a psych ward if I claim to the pulic that the Huskies are gonna win the Pac-10 in 2009. For example Rich Rodriguez built a Top 25 team at West VA, the next year he comes to Michigan a struggling program. He's a great/winning coach, but does he vote his team #1 in the Big 10? No, because he not that arrogant.

Maybe you don't follow College football so heres another example:

Jeff Capel took over at Oklahoma after Kelvin Sampson left it in shambles (just like Skip). During his first season his team was predicted to finish 9th out of 12 teams. His team got 0 first place votes. Capel's a great coach, and the Sooners could contend for a national title this year, but did he vote his team 1st.  Nope he sure didn't. Funny, I'm starting to see a trend here.

2 additional observations:
1) I'm guessing you didn't graduate from UPS because your grammar, sentence structure, and word choice, for example, "brutal realitied" are not going to get you are degree from an outstanding institution such as UPS.
2) You're not even spelling people's name correctly. People that are on your team. Seems somewhat disrespectful to me. So here ya go: Cliff Snyder, Jordan Thurston, and even your boy Bridgeland
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 05:23:23 PM
hmmm.  logshock, you seem pretty upset.  maybe YOU should join us boys for a beer or 2...

let the games begin.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 31, 2008, 05:28:50 PM
Quote from: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 05:23:23 PM
hmmm.  logshock, you seem pretty upset.  maybe YOU should join us boys for a beer or 2...

let the games begin.

Upset? No, quite the contrary actually.

However you do seem to keep missing or misreading my posts so heres one from earlier.

Quote from: logshock101 on October 30, 2008, 07:25:13 PM
UPSoundlogs
You're my boy blue! I'd like to join you for a cold adult beverage before any game in tacoma or after to celebrate another logger victory.

As the mantra goes: Once A Logger, Always A Logger!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 05:46:42 PM
logshock

"bridgland arrogant... for voting whitmen number 1"

you probably would have used ARROGANT last time if he said he would take ups to 3 straight conferance titles and 44-4 record to

scary thing is what if he knows something we dont?  i guess i would have said imposable to if he had told me 3 straight nwc titles and 44-4 record over that time

i for one admire his confidence. i would also say that ups is probably thankful for his confidence after what he did for men's sports at ups

beers?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 31, 2008, 06:30:51 PM
Quote from: mtnman on October 31, 2008, 05:46:42 PM
logshock

"bridgland arrogant... for voting whitmen number 1"

you probably would have used ARROGANT last time if he said he would take ups to 3 straight conferance titles and 44-4 record to

scary thing is what if he knows something we dont?  i guess i would have said imposable to if he had told me 3 straight nwc titles and 44-4 record over that time

i for one admire his confidence. i would also say that ups is probably thankful for his confidence after what he did for men's sports at ups

beers?



One word. Talent. UPS had/has it, Whitman doesn't. Did Bridgeland win a title in his 1st 2 years at UPS with more talented players than he has at Whitman right now? No. Its gonna be tough for him to recruit even the caliber of players he got at UPS. Whitman has stricter regulations on admissions and its in the armpit of WA, where there isn't much to do and winters are longer and colder than most people would tolerate. He might know something we don't, maybe he learned something from those brilliant minds over at Whitman, but honestly if he did, I my guess is it would be something academic, I don't think it would have been about basketball.

The only sport he did anything for he at UPS is Men's basketball (which was his job). Baseball is still mediocre and all he did for football was kick football players out of the midnight practice to open the 2005-2006 season.

Beers? I like beers
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on October 31, 2008, 07:21:43 PM
I thought Tacoma was the armpit of Washington?    Walla Walla is more like "it's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there!"

And, Bridgeland is a Basketball coach -- everyone knows you can find smart bb players cuz it's a smart man's game!!   :)

Don't go too heavy on the beers, guys -- it's Halloween & you might run over some trick or treaters!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 31, 2008, 07:45:32 PM
I was trying to be nice, I think calling it the *ssh crack of WA is a better description  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 31, 2008, 08:10:09 PM
I've mentioned this before, but I think it is worth repeating.

The team that will benefit the most from Whitman hiring Bridgeland, besides the Missionaries, is Whitworth.  Just guessing here, but in the past I believe opponents would spend 80+% of their time preparing for Whitworth during the week, then take their chances against Whitman.  Now coaches will have to spend at least 50% of their time preparing for the "system" - assuming Bridgeland installs it at Whitman.

Also, its clear that for good or bad, Bridgeland gets into people's head (just reading this board over the last week proves that).  I think the same is true for a lot of the coaches in this league.

Should be interesting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 11:04:06 PM
I swear...so many posts...damnit...i am outta the loop
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 11:12:38 PM
Mtnman, we are all on the same team...so its all good baby :)

Bridgeland did lots of good things at UPS (read: 3 conference champions) all did a lot of things people didn't approve of...ask around.  Point is he won, but did it by ways that some people are gonna disagree with.  So either way you slice it, some are gonna like him and some are gonna hate him and some are gonna be inbetween.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion....but we are all on the same team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 01:08:52 PM
Dang!   Can't give myself Karma!  I was trying to pull a Bridgeland  ;) ;D ::)

NWCer, who writes your material...you are killing me! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 31, 2008, 04:52:23 PM
I'm not hating on Bridgeland, the guy was 44-4 and won 3 titles from 04-06 with an elite 8 appearance, that's awesome....  He's good, and Whitman will be much better I'm anticipating, I think they could finish as high as 6th actually this year, but 1st is a bit out of the question for 08-09.


He was also 23-27 in his first 2 years. and the second year was all his guys...don't expect Whitman to compete anytime soon...3 years at the earliest.  He could turn it around, but that would be some true magic, I don't think he could get the same sort of student athlete in to Whitman as he did at UPS...I wonder how the Whitman guy are doing right now...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 31, 2008, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on October 31, 2008, 08:10:09 PM

Also, its clear that for good or bad, Bridgeland gets into people's head (just reading this board over the last week proves that).  I think the same is true for a lot of the coaches in this league.

Should be interesting.

I kinda like this point/topic of conversation...who is the best at working the ref/creative arguing/ect?
I would go with Gordie as the best (he knows how to work 'em and everything falls his way in Cone) and probably Dickerson as the worst (all ihe does is hold a rolled up program)

any thoughts? :) 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 01, 2008, 12:47:47 AM
That's rich coming from a "can't get a fair call in Tacoma" fan.  Have you watched the games at PLU & UPS when visiting teams come in?  I'm not sure how they handle it when the Loggers play the Lutes!

I think it's pretty universal -- we all live with bad calls some nights.   Some coaches just choose not to go postal over it -- Gordie James is one of them!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 01, 2008, 01:27:26 AM
on the topic of coaches did any of you guys ever catch when a couple of the UPS fans dressed up like Hayford and mimiced his every action? I never saw it but heard it was priceless
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 01, 2008, 04:15:55 PM
Well, this is close to out of hand. 

I am interested to see whether UPS maintains its commitment to the press this year.  By the end of last season the Loggers were offering only token pressure in the frontcourt much of the time, because it was apparent that the old monster wasn't working very well against teams in the league.  The pressure blew away a few non-league teams, but the only NWC teams I saw really fall apart in Tacoma last year were Whitman and Pacific.  In fact, I thought that PLU--with far less talent--was able to stay in games against the Loggers because they so effectively exploited the press. 

One of the big differences I've seen with the Loggers under Lunt has been related to personnel.  The best Logger teams under Bridgeland had at least two dead 3 point shooters.  He head one of those guys on the floor at all times, running the wing to the corner, then crossing the court to the other corner for the bomb.  The last two years I think they've had just one guy (Marsh), a tough player who was a little inconsistent last year.  When Marsh went to the bench to rest up from running in the defense they play, UPS didn't really have a guy to put up on the floor who had the quick release and accuracy they needed to open things up and--with the 3s--to ratchet up the panic and make the press feel more intense.

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 01, 2008, 09:56:52 PM
I also want to respond to the point that in the NWC and DIII that it's "all about winning."  Knowing literally nothing about the internal dynamics of the athletic department and the basketball program at Puget Sound at any time, and nothing about the Bridgeland years except the great ball I saw from way up in the bleachers, I'd say this: Puget Sound is quite intense academically, and DIII is what it is--no scholarships, something that people do for the competition and the love of the game.  It's got to crush guys to try to keep up with tough courses while traveling and practicing as much as these guys do.  If it isn't fun, can it be worth doing?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 02, 2008, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on November 01, 2008, 09:56:52 PM
I also want to respond to the point that in the NWC and DIII that it's "all about winning."  Knowing literally nothing about the internal dynamics of the athletic department and the basketball program at Puget Sound at any time, and nothing about the Bridgeland years except the great ball I saw from way up in the bleachers, I'd say this: Puget Sound is quite intense academically, and DIII is what it is--no scholarships, something that people do for the competition and the love of the game.  It's got to crush guys to try to keep up with tough courses while traveling and practicing as much as these guys do.  If it isn't fun, can it be worth doing?

I give props to guys who can play hoops at the college level while maintaing good enough grades at a school like ups where school was tough enough by itself. and doing it all without any kind of financial compensation.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 02, 2008, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on November 01, 2008, 04:15:55 PM
Well, this is close to out of hand. 

I am interested to see whether UPS maintains its commitment to the press this year.  By the end of last season the Loggers were offering only token pressure in the frontcourt much of the time, because it was apparent that the old monster wasn't working very well against teams in the league.  The pressure blew away a few non-league teams, but the only NWC teams I saw really fall apart in Tacoma last year were Whitman and Pacific.  In fact, I thought that PLU--with far less talent--was able to stay in games against the Loggers because they so effectively exploited the press. 

One of the big differences I've seen with the Loggers under Lunt has been related to personnel.  The best Logger teams under Bridgeland had at least two dead 3 point shooters.  He head one of those guys on the floor at all times, running the wing to the corner, then crossing the court to the other corner for the bomb.  The last two years I think they've had just one guy (Marsh), a tough player who was a little inconsistent last year.  When Marsh went to the bench to rest up from running in the defense they play, UPS didn't really have a guy to put up on the floor who had the quick release and accuracy they needed to open things up and--with the 3s--to ratchet up the panic and make the press feel more intense.

Just my thoughts.

I'm guessing that UPS is still going to press, but in a modified form. The press has not had the same effect the passed couple years as it did initially. I'm guessing this is for 2 reason. 1) Teams have had a long time to make adjustments to how they attack it. Which is why most non-conference teams struggle. 2) Teams have managed to bring in press killers. Even in its earliest most effective days, the press was always susceptible to great guards and bigs who can handle the rock. Many teams in the NWC have good guards to attack the press. Players like Brent Satern, Landon from PLU, Tillery, Nakumura, Williams, and the PG for IWU, just to name a few, have always given the press trouble. But also big guys who can handle the ball have the ability to see over the press (Kalsow (sp?) and colin willemson) making it virtually ineffective when the ball is in their hands.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 02, 2008, 03:25:47 PM
Quick question for anybody. Do you guys think coaches ever get on here to read what people say about them or their team?

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 02, 2008, 04:09:49 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on November 01, 2008, 09:56:52 PM
I also want to respond to the point that in the NWC and DIII that it's "all about winning."  Knowing literally nothing about the internal dynamics of the athletic department and the basketball program at Puget Sound at any time, and nothing about the Bridgeland years except the great ball I saw from way up in the bleachers, I'd say this: Puget Sound is quite intense academically, and DIII is what it is--no scholarships, something that people do for the competition and the love of the game.  It's got to crush guys to try to keep up with tough courses while traveling and practicing as much as these guys do.  If it isn't fun, can it be worth doing?

Yeah its got to be tough on the players, but most seem to handle it pretty well.  If they don't like it they can stop playing or transfer or whatever.  You see it all the time, but its not just limited to D3.  It happens in D1 and D2 as well. You have to love the game or love your teammates to do it, because it is a heck of a time commitment.  The season runs from Oct-Feb.  Talking to players over the years, I have asked them if it is fun...they usually say the games are fun because you are out there preforming in front of a crowd and the end product of winning is fun, but the process of achieving that result isn't always fun and games.  It is a lot of hard work.  I have heard lots of stories about the grueling Puget Sound practices...some starting as early as 6AM!  To me that definately doesn't sound fun.  But they (UPS players) do it, and I respect them a great deal for tha.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 02, 2008, 04:11:58 PM
UPS is supposed to have their first "home" game of the year Nov. 15th...I think the UPS website said the fieldhouse was down till Dec 1st.  Where are they going to play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 02, 2008, 04:52:39 PM
Loggers are playing at Foss High gym until the Fieldhouse is ready.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 02, 2008, 09:55:45 PM
they can play at a high school even though the 3 point line is different, how is that gonna work?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 02, 2008, 10:04:28 PM
UPS may have a shot in next weekend's exhibition afterall.  Saw in this morning's paper that Carroll of the NAIA handled Eastern Washington yesterday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 02, 2008, 10:07:25 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 02, 2008, 10:04:28 PM
UPS may have a shot in next weekend's exhibition afterall.  Saw in this morning's paper that Carroll of the NAIA handled Eastern Washington yesterday.

Thanks for the info Pinecone!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 03, 2008, 12:20:27 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 02, 2008, 09:55:45 PM
they can play at a high school even though the 3 point line is different, how is that gonna work?

Good point.  I suppose that they could lay down some temporary tape pretty easily though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 03, 2008, 01:58:47 AM
Quote from: LogShow on November 03, 2008, 12:20:27 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 02, 2008, 09:55:45 PM
they can play at a high school even though the 3 point line is different, how is that gonna work?

Good point.  I suppose that they could lay down some temporary tape pretty easily though.

very true. the deeper 3 might cause some problems on the smaller high school floor. hopefully we won't pick up a couple silly TOs by stepping OB
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 03, 2008, 08:01:34 PM
Long time listener, first time caller...

I was able to atttend the instra-squad game for the Pirates on Friday...and I have only one thing to say about them...BIG !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 04, 2008, 01:56:44 AM
Welcome 89Pirate.   I just gave you your first +k.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 04, 2008, 04:23:01 PM
QuoteLong time listener, first time caller...

I was able to atttend the instra-squad game for the Pirates on Friday...and I have only one thing to say about them...BIG !

+1 for the new Rat...Whitworth's starting line-up could end up looking something like this

PG 6'1
SG 6'5
F 6'5
F 6'8
C 6'8
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 04, 2008, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 04, 2008, 04:23:01 PM
QuoteLong time listener, first time caller...

I was able to atttend the instra-squad game for the Pirates on Friday...and I have only one thing to say about them...BIG !

+1 for the new Rat...Whitworth's starting line-up could end up looking something like this

PG 6'1
SG 6'5
F 6'5
F 6'8
C 6'8

My point exactly.  Felix - big and strong.  Ross - great hands.

BTW - thanks for the plus k's from both of you.  It feels good to finally join in the fracas after all this time...should have along time ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 04, 2008, 08:06:30 PM
Welcome 89Rat!  I always enjoy having more posters on this board.

By the way, can anyone else just feel the love on this board now...what a change.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 04, 2008, 08:18:07 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 04, 2008, 08:06:30 PM
Welcome 89Rat!  I always enjoy having more posters on this board.

By the way, can anyone else just feel the love on this board now...what a change.

Thanks for the welcome.

I can...but hopefully it is not for me alone !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 04, 2008, 08:30:31 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 04, 2008, 08:06:30 PM
By the way, can anyone else just feel the love on this board now...what a change.

I certainly can, even me and mtn man are getting along...speaking of him, he has seemed to have disapeared. must have went back up to the mountains where he doesnt have wi-fi
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 02:15:30 AM
What love?  Someone keeps dinging my karma.  (It's probably on the FB board because I'm for the Bearcats.  Not a terribly popular position right now.)

Can't wait for hoops to start.  WU has it's first (exhibition) game on Sat. night against WOU.  Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 05, 2008, 11:12:36 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 02:15:30 AM
What love?  Someone keeps dinging my karma.  (It's probably on the FB board because I'm for the Bearcats.  Not a terribly popular position right now.)

Can't wait for hoops to start.  WU has it's first (exhibition) game on Sat. night against WOU.  Go Bearcats!

Yeah that would definately be the football board..its pretty tough to go on there and say anything thing with getting dinged, and I think some might be extra grumpy this year.  That' why I stay away from there, and the fact that UPS is terrible...lol
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 11:25:25 AM
Thanks, LogShow -- the BB board is definitely a kinder, gentler place.   (At least until the games begin ;))

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 05, 2008, 11:57:18 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 11:25:25 AM
Thanks, LogShow -- the BB board is definitely a kinder, gentler place.   (At least until the games begin ;))



It should definitely become a little fiestier (sp) in a couple of weeks as the non-con games begin!  I am so looking forward to seeing the Bucs in real action soon.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 12:05:26 PM
Isn't Whitworth on the road until January?  Or do you follow them to their tournaments?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 05, 2008, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 12:05:26 PM
Isn't Whitworth on the road until January?  Or do you follow them to their tournaments?
We do occasionally hit non-con stuff, and this year we are doing the San Francisco tournament...on the way to Maui (sorry had to throw that out there).  We are always at the home games as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 05, 2008, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 11:25:25 AM
Thanks, LogShow -- the BB board is definitely a kinder, gentler place.   (At least until the games begin ;))



I was planning on being nice at least until conference games started. :D   

As hard as it will be for me, I will root for the pirates, pios, bearcats, etc. I will do so in hopes that the NWC can improve its QWI and strenght of schedule and maybe get 2 teams into the tourney, because we all know if that happens at least one of those teams is going to put together a nice run. To bad the NCAA would probably match our 2 teams up in the 1st round. Cheap skates...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 05, 2008, 07:10:18 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 05, 2008, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 05, 2008, 11:25:25 AM
Thanks, LogShow -- the BB board is definitely a kinder, gentler place.   (At least until the games begin ;))



I was planning on being nice at least until conference games started. :D   

As hard as it will be for me, I will root for the pirates, pios, bearcats, etc. I will do so in hopes that the NWC can improve its QWI and strenght of schedule and maybe get 2 teams into the tourney, because we all know if that happens at least one of those teams is going to put together a nice run. To bad the NCAA would probably match our 2 teams up in the 1st round. Cheap skates...

Two teams from the NWC would be great!  If both UPS and WW take care of business in non-conference and then each have say 2 losses in conference...i could see that potentially happening.  It is unfortunate but it is the nature of the beast that teams with close proximity will be matched up early in the NCAA.  That usually is the case, just ask the SCIAC.  It would be idle if one team could get sent to Texas and the other like Wisonsin...probably won't ever happen, but one could hope.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 06, 2008, 03:25:20 PM
OK LogShow, I'm on board with that.  We cheer for the NWC teams at least until the conference games start.  That gives the NWC more clout when it comes to playoff time.  Besides, who wants to beat losers?  No sport in that -- we'll all win in the preseason and then come back to beat each other up?  Deal?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 06, 2008, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 06, 2008, 03:25:20 PM
OK LogShow, I'm on board with that.  We cheer for the NWC teams at least until the conference games start.  That gives the NWC more clout when it comes to playoff time.  Besides, who wants to beat losers?  No sport in that -- we'll all win in the preseason and then come back to beat each other up?  Deal?

I'm definitely on board with that!  No use in having a bunch of NWC teams limp into conference play with a beat up record.  It's always best for atleast a few of us to have a great preseason, hopefully beating a few of the "power" conference teams in the process.  That lets the voters know right off the bat what our teams are capable of.  I'd love for two to get in the tournament, but I have a feeling we would play each other right away :-\.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 06, 2008, 04:44:55 PM
Mtnman,

Just out of curiousity who will you be rooting for when UPS and Whitman play?  Are you a die hard Logger fan or are you gonna flip over to cheer on your favorite coach in his new Whitman missionary position?  You seem like a fairly passionate fan do you have any preference or is it not really a priority for you ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 07, 2008, 11:10:24 AM
Quote from: UPSoundLogs on November 06, 2008, 04:44:55 PM
Mtnman,

Just out of curiousity who will you be rooting for when UPS and Whitman play?  Are you a die hard Logger fan or are you gonna flip over to cheer on your favorite coach in his new Whitman missionary position?  You seem like a fairly passionate fan do you have any preference or is it not really a priority for you ???

lol, yes, great word play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 07, 2008, 11:12:19 AM
Congrats to Jason Foster on representing the NWC on the Pre-season All-American List.  3rd team, thats great!  Now go out there and make a post-season All-American list and lead the Logs back to the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 07, 2008, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 07, 2008, 11:12:19 AM
Congrats to Jason Foster on representing the NWC on the Pre-season All-American List.  3rd team, thats great!  Now go out there and make a post-season All-American list and lead the Logs back to the NCAAs.

Very dissapointed that Ross Nakamura is not on that list.  His assist numbers last year should have been enough to make some part of the list.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 07, 2008, 04:33:22 PM
89 Pirates,

I only saw Nakamura play once last season when they loss to my Boxers in the Grove, so I don't have a lot to go on other than his assists (as you mentioned) to turnover ration is insane, but he only received one point for all conference last year from the coaches (http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2007-08/allnwc), and as solid as a player as he is I don't think he was going to find his name on the pre-season all-american list.

Also 89, other than the "big" description, what else did you like about your Pirates from the scrimmage you saw?

And yes, as Logshow said, congrats to Foster for representing the NWC, hopefully we can have multiple people represent on the more important post-season teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 07, 2008, 09:03:30 PM
Nakamura is solid...very solid. And probably underrated.  It will be interesting to see the type of year he has, i am thinking it will be pretty good.  Don't think his season last year was pre-season all-america worthy.  He did have a great assist to TO ratio...but that will only get you so far in the eyes of the voters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on November 08, 2008, 12:06:34 AM
log show

i am really excited for foster (jason).  i think hes really good. i always remember him being very nice to everybody.  whitman?  i am a ups supporter through and through.  i like bridgland and respect hiim for making ups a winner, but my allegances are to the loggers.  i will be interested to see how he coaches against ups
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 08, 2008, 12:38:00 PM
Hey guys -- remember how I was telling you it's not very happy on the FB boards?  Well, OxyBob packed up his marbles & left D3boards.  All his posts are deleted and he seems to be gone.  I think it's a shame because he has some pretty good insights about DIII basketball.  Anyway, didn't know if you knew.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 08, 2008, 12:40:09 PM
UPS squares off against eastern washington today at 2pm.  I think Eastern is a bit down this year.  Could it be enough for the logs to pull the upset?  I don't know but I think that UPS has a shot.  They will have to shot the ball well from 3, and not turn it over.  I will be interested to see how much the Logs press, or if they will have changed their defense at all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 08, 2008, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 08, 2008, 12:38:00 PM
Hey guys -- remember how I was telling you it's not very happy on the FB boards?  Well, OxyBob packed up his marbles & left D3boards.  All his posts are deleted and he seems to be gone.  I think it's a shame because he has some pretty good insights about DIII basketball.  Anyway, didn't know if you knew.

Thats a shame...I always enjoyed reading his posts.  I thought he was witty and creative and told it like it was.  He will be missed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 08, 2008, 04:36:15 PM
The new long 3 has got to change the game, right?  Looking at the UPS roster, at least the returnees from last year, it looks to me like there's maybe one guy who's going to be a consistent threat from the longer long range. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 08, 2008, 05:22:24 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on November 08, 2008, 04:36:15 PM
The new long 3 has got to change the game, right?  Looking at the UPS roster, at least the returnees from last year, it looks to me like there's maybe one guy who's going to be a consistent threat from the longer long range. 

I think it will some what...probably lower 3pt% but who knows.  I don't think it will impact UPS much..they tend to launch them from a few feet behind the line anyways.  Thats not to say that I like that.  I would much rather have UPS take less 3s.  I think they get themselves in trouble when they take a lot.  It is true that they don't have the shooters like they did in years past that can consistantly knock down the long range shot. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 08, 2008, 05:30:28 PM
Rough start for UPS against Eastern Washington.  Logs are down 20-7 mid-way through the first half.  UPS is just 2-13 from the floor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 08, 2008, 06:02:17 PM
UPS is down at the half 42-28.  UPS only made 8 field goals...hopefully the first game jitters are gone and there will be a better effort in the second half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 08, 2008, 06:39:01 PM
Well...things are going from bad to worse.  Under 10 to go UPS down 26
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 08, 2008, 06:53:57 PM
And thats all she wrote UPS goes down to EWU 66-90.  Too bad thought UPS would play better and give EWU a good game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 08, 2008, 07:52:10 PM
tough to get a feel for the game by reading the recap. I thought it was interesting to see the distribution of minutes. guys who played 30+ last year did get nearly as much time. i believe williams had the most with 23. seemed that everybody who got in played at least almost 10 minutes. wonder if lunt conceded somewhat when they were down big and wanted to get some younger guys so game expirience when it wasnt gonna count on the record.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 09, 2008, 12:19:42 AM
You may be interested to know that when UPS was playing against EWU they were facing a former Pio, Jeff Christensen. Christensen transferred to EWU from LC last season and redshirted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 09, 2008, 04:05:33 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on November 09, 2008, 12:19:42 AM
You may be interested to know that when UPS was playing against EWU they were facing a former Pio, Jeff Christensen. Christensen transferred to EWU from LC last season and redshirted.

Pio, I had in fact remembered that.  Seemed like he got some good minutes against the Loggers (familar territory for him).  Glad things have worked out there for him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 10, 2008, 12:09:01 AM
I think it just goes to show that there are a number of players spread throughout the NWC who could play in the Big Sky.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 10, 2008, 01:49:25 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 10, 2008, 12:09:01 AM
I think it just goes to show that there are a number of players spread throughout the NWC who could play in the Big Sky.

completely agree!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 11, 2008, 05:22:47 PM
Tip-off weekend is fast approaching...looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 11, 2008, 08:12:20 PM
Me too.

In anticipation of the start of the season, let's get some predictions going.  How about:
Predicted top four -
Whitworth
UPS
Willamette
Pacific

Predicted upset of the year:
Whitman over UPS just once (Bridgeland will get into his former players' heads somehow).

Predicted player of the year:
Jason Foster - UPS (most likely to put up the biggest numbers over the course of the season).

Predicted biggest impact by a newcomer:
Felix Freidt - Whitworth (everything I've heard says he's a real stud).

That's about all I can think of for now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 12, 2008, 12:11:11 AM
top 4
Whitworth
UPS
Pacific
Linfield (Wiser is a stud)

upset
The Lutes drop cross-town rival UPS @ PLU...in other news UPS's bus gets car-jacked in Parkland

Player of the year
After watching the Whitworth scrimmage I don't think Nakamura will have to put up MVP type numbers for the Pirates to win the conference...too many other weapons.  So I too have to go with Foster from UPS

Newcomer
Easily Felix from Whitworth...he had some happy feet in their scrimmage against WVCC but is too big and physical for the rest of the conference.

In a recent scrimmage Whitworth beat up on Wenatchee Valley CC...not much to report other than Whitworth did a nice job of taking care of business against a lesser opponent.  I know they were up by over 20 at half with some pretty liberal substitutions, can't remember the final score.  Don't know much about WVCC other than they finished 8-18 last year (5-9 in their division), but they didn't look that good.  Sellereit had a great night shooting and Nakamura did the whole dish it out without turning it over thing he does.  Bo Gregg started and played well but got pushed around a little bit while the 3 big men (Jurich, Montgomery, Felix Friedt) all played very well in the post with the exception of felix having a few too many traveling calls.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 12, 2008, 12:30:07 AM
Sure Rat, in your dreams!  Don't discount the Bearcats or Lewis & Clark for that matter.  You'd love for Whitworth to only have to contend with Pacific & Linfield!  Linfield always has plenty of talent, they just never quite get it done.  Pacific might take off this year and I still think that Bridgeland at Whitman is a threat.  It'll be an interesting year of NWC basketball, that's for sure.

Whitworth teams always dread the trips to WU & L&C!  And, for good reason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 12, 2008, 01:06:22 AM
bbaddict -
I'm not sure, but you might be overstating your case somewhat:
"Whitworth teams always dread the trips to WU"

If by "dread" you mean they are afraid they might lose twice out of every nine games, then a I guess you are right...  ;)

Whitworth's recent results at Willamette (from NWC website) -
01/05/08     * at Willamette          WOT  72-65
01/19/07     * at Willamette          W    79-66
2/3/2006     * at Willamette          W    76-61
1/28/05      * at Willamette          WOT  71-66
02/07/04     * at Willamette          W    58-57
2/15/03      * at Willamette               56-66  L
2-21-02      at Willamette           W      64-49
1-5-02       at Willamette             L    60-63
1-27-01      * at Willamette Univ.    WOT  89-87
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 12, 2008, 01:50:17 AM
Just look at your own numbers pineconefan.  Look at the number of OT games or close games.  They just do -- I know this.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 12, 2008, 02:00:45 AM
Pinecone, "dread" or "fear" isn't always based on rational facts.   My following of Whitworth BB precedes 2001.  Nuff said.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 12, 2008, 02:08:46 AM
Ah the WW fans are calling for UPS upsets...I love it!  But seriously no way!  :) 

No way, no how will the Logs lose to Whitman...UPS has way too much pride for that one.  PLU does scare me a bit, since they haven't been able to beat us since 02-03...that would be 10 straight.  PLU has played the Logs tough.  I think a lot of it will have to do with if UPS decides to change up their pressure.

(Side Note: what team has the longest winning streak over another school, ignoring UPS over PLU)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 12, 2008, 02:47:43 AM
QuoteAh the WW fans are calling for UPS upsets...I love it!  But seriously no way!

Makes sense though...topic is BIGGEST upset and since UPS is #1 based on the preseason poll, then the biggest upset would most likely include the #1 losing.  Plus with the run-n-gun style of play at UPS it can lead to some very up and down play. With Whitworth playing mostly possesion basketball with sound defense and a very patient offense I think they are less likely to get "upset" against a lesser opponent.  And seriously, why would I pick Whitworth to get beaten????  ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 12, 2008, 04:35:48 AM
Oh I know!  Just like I am out there defending UPS  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 12, 2008, 01:16:05 PM
OK bbaddict, that's fine.

I go pretty far back in my familiarity with Whitworth basketball too.  I only copied what was available on the NWC website.

But if you want to argue that Whitworth dreads going to a place it wins more than 70% of the time over the last eight or so years, that's cool.   I would think that if a team came to our house and won more than 70% of the time over an extended period, my team would tend to "dread" the arrival of that visiting school.

But if a once-proud program like Willamette ('93 NAIA champs) has gotten to the point that it is satisfied with close/OT losses at home against other good programs, than good for you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 12, 2008, 02:37:07 PM
Going with the predictions theme we got going on:

Top 4:
UPS
WW
Willamette
Pacific

Player of The Year: Jason Foster, Wiser may give him a run, but its usually gonna go to a guy on one of the top teams. If WW is as well rounded as everybody claims, I don't see one individual putting up MVP type numbers.

Newcomer of the year: Can't say because I only know the UPS guys who are all frosh and probably won't have as big an impact as a JUCO transfer.

Upset of the year: Either Whitman over WW or Linfield over WW at the lesser teams home court, where the officiating always seems a bit partial. Reasoning Bridgeland vs whitworth is always a battle. Linfield"s Wiser puts on a hell of a show and outbattles WW's rotation of bigs.

Conditional Upset alert (as much as I hate to say it): Willamette over UPS and maybe even WW IF they bring back the drawbridge hoops.

Only a few more days til the games begin. Until conference starts good luck to all...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 12, 2008, 02:52:58 PM
OK pinecone -- you're right.  Whatever the topic or question -- you're right.  Now quit dinking with my karma.   Cheering for Whitworth automatically makes you right -- about everything!  So, I guess the rest of us should quit cheering & give up.  No wait -- the season hasn't started.  Think I'll take a wait & see . . .
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 12, 2008, 03:33:17 PM
Predictions!  Now we're talking....

I'm a stick with what the coaches said their top 4 would be (UPS, WW, Pac, Will), but I'll hold off on the order (for now).......

I am going to predict however that after going 7-1 and 6-2 at home the last two years, my Boxers will duplicate Linfield's feat last year and LC's in '07 and be perfect at home at 8-0.  So if they can get 4, or at worst 3 on the road this year as they did last season, I think that puts them comfortably in a good spot heading into the conference tourney.

I can see the upset of Whitman over UPS, didn't Bridgeland teach Lunt everything he knows?  Interesting to see how all this size Whitworth have will handle the press of Whitman and UPS, I know they have Nakamura, but if I'm not mistaking posters have said Willemson and Symes played a huge role in helping break the press as well.

It's starting soon, can't wait to get out to some games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 12, 2008, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: NWCer on November 12, 2008, 03:33:17 PM

Interesting to see how all this size Whitworth have will handle the press of Whitman and UPS, I know they have Nakamura, but if I'm not mistaking posters have said Willemson and Symes played a huge role in helping break the press as well.


NWCer

Is Bridgeland running the same press at Whitman as he did at UPS?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 12, 2008, 04:42:57 PM
Logshock,

I'm not positive, just assuming Bridgeland will be himself and implement what has brought him so much success.  I think he would want to do it, I'm sure the style alone will pump a lot of excitement into building that  program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 12, 2008, 05:01:19 PM
Wow bbaddict, I never figured you for one to slink away like that when a strong argument is made against your strong assertion. 

As far as karma - I think its kind of pointless, so I never add or subtract anyone.  But if it means that much to you, I'll go ahead and give you +1 (which I would've been unable to do if I had subtracted because you can only do either once every 24 hours).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 12, 2008, 07:25:01 PM
it is a very exciting style of play, thats for sure. i know at ups bridgeland didn't implement (sp) it until he had a couple of years worth of guys that he recruited here. it will be interesting to see. even if they don't do it right at the start of the season i wouldn't put it past him to keep it under wraps until conference rolls around.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 13, 2008, 02:59:40 AM
Logshock,

Do you know if UPS is still doing the same defensive pressure this year?  I am kind of hoping they will change it up a bit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 13, 2008, 12:31:17 PM
as far as i know, they have been working on different pressure schemes to change it up a bit. i talked to a player the other day and they told me that after their loss to EWU they took out some stuff they had put in and put in other stuff that they hadn't worked on any yet this season. im not able to tell you exactly what they're going to be doin this year, but unless things have changed dramaticly, things will be different this year from years past.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 13, 2008, 01:15:17 PM
http://www.goboxers.com/mbx/season-preview.cfm

Pacific's season preview.....  Tomorrow at Boise State......

Saturday's games:

Macalester vs. PLU
UC Santa Cruz @ UPS
Corban @ LEWIS AND CLARK

Sunday's games:

UC Santa Cruz vs. PLU
Macalester @ UPS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 15, 2008, 12:58:42 PM
509 or 89Pirate -

I heard Whitworth scrimmaged SCC this week.  Did either of you get a chance to see it?  If so, what where your impressions/how'd it go.  I know last year SCC gave the Pirates a run before finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-1.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 15, 2008, 05:35:44 PM
The fun starts tonight, can't wait to see how the games turn out!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 15, 2008, 07:36:53 PM
Go get it done against UCSC, Logs.  Shouldn't be too much trouble...but good luck in 08-09.  Let's start this season off right!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 16, 2008, 03:59:24 AM
Pios dominated Corban College. I wasn't able to attend but it sounds like the Pios controlled the game. David Bergrren had 20, freshman James Hollins had 15 and Tyson Papenfuss and Josh Kollasch had 12 each. The Pios were up big most of the game. Good start to the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 16, 2008, 02:45:22 PM
pineconefan,
The Pirates did indeed play SCC and won in the teens (should have posted about this earlier when i remembered the score).  They were up by 10-16 points for most of the game.  Montgomery didn't play and Hayford was not happy with how the rest of them played.  Sellereit again looked better than Bo Greg and David Riley but those two continue to start with Nakamura and a combination of Jurich, Montgomery, and Felix (obviously it was Jurich and Felix the other night).  Spokane CC had a telented team again, but physically couldn't hang with the Pirates.  Jurich had another double-double (19? pts and 10 boards the other night I think).  Nakamura once again did not turn the ball over.  Clay Gebbers (young kid who may still have freshman eligibility) did well at the point when relieving Nakamura with Ben Iddins (another young guy with freshman eligibility I think) out from a concussion.  Both of those guys should be able to give Ross a break from time to time without being a liability.  Felix looked a little more polished than in their last exhibition game and could be scary good by the time this monster road trip is over (Baltimore, DC, LA) and conference play begins.  Anyways, maybe the other new poster can shed some more light on the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 16, 2008, 06:29:48 PM
well it wasn't pretty, but the loggers got the win last night. a win is a win, so ill take it. hopefully things will be smoother tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 16, 2008, 06:37:49 PM
pio

i had heard that a LC only has like 9 guys left on the team after a bunch quit, is there any truth to that rumor?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 17, 2008, 01:39:12 AM
the loggers won easily tonight, things still weren't pretty, but much improved from last night. about half of the NWCs coaches were in attendence tonight. I saw WW, LC, and Pac, and I'm sure Dickerson was hanging around after PLU's game. congrats to foster and Boyce on their tip off classic awards
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 17, 2008, 03:52:55 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 16, 2008, 06:37:49 PM
pio

i had heard that a LC only has like 9 guys left on the team after a bunch quit, is there any truth to that rumor?

Some truth...but there are still 11 players on the team. Two players quit at the beginning of the year. Both did not get along so well with Coach G.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: coachferrier on November 17, 2008, 01:14:51 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 17, 2008, 01:39:12 AM
the loggers won easily tonight, things still weren't pretty, but much improved from last night. about half of the NWCs coaches were in attendence tonight. I saw WW, LC, and Pac, and I'm sure Dickerson was hanging around after PLU's game. congrats to foster and Boyce on their tip off classic awards
made a point to see my first UPS games in quite awhile---I was impressed with the overall scrappiness of the the Loggers. Their high pressure, high-risk, high-reward system can look shaky sometimes but the payoff is usually in the last 4-8 minutes of the ball game, when the other team is spent from constantly trying to beat the relentless pressure.
I'm guessing that the Loggers will work out their kinks.

Also saw most of the Lutes-Banana Slugs matchup. PLU looks pretty good, even though they seem to be small.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 17, 2008, 02:03:46 PM
thanks for the confirmation pio. 11 players is a small team, one injury and u have just enough players to scrimmage at practice.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 17, 2008, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 15, 2008, 12:58:42 PM
509 or 89Pirate -

I heard Whitworth scrimmaged SCC this week.  Did either of you get a chance to see it?  If so, what where your impressions/how'd it go.  I know last year SCC gave the Pirates a run before finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-1.

Sorry...been out of touch for a bit...I did see most of the scrimmage as well.

As 509Rat stated, they played well.  Good deep bench behind solid performances by the starters.  I was curious about Montgomery's absence...any idea where he was 509?

Jurich and Nakamura were A+ the whole game.  I was concerned with the 3 quick fouls that Felix committed at the beginning of the second half...but not overly worried about it.

Great crowd on hand for an exhibition game.  Alot of CCS fans, a few local celebs even...CCS was more like 29-1 under Mike Burns...got burned in the last game of the season from what I hear.

Personally...I am feeling pretty optimistic about this season...but then I always am.

Oh, and from a much prior post - I have heard that Coach Hayford is having a 09-10 preseason tourney in Spokane for once...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 17, 2008, 07:11:43 PM
Montgomery tweaked his ankle and sat out of that exhibition...mainly because it was just that, an exhibition.  Pretty sure he's back practicing and will play in the johns hopkins tourney

So you mean the tourney Whitworth HOSTS wont be down in SoCal?  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 17, 2008, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 17, 2008, 07:11:43 PM
Montgomery tweaked his ankle and sat out of that exhibition...mainly because it was just that, an exhibition.  Pretty sure he's back practicing and will play in the johns hopkins tourney

So you mean the tourney Whitworth HOSTS wont be down in SoCal?  :o
Good afternoon 509...

Glad to hear Nate will be back soon...he looks even bigger this year than he did last year.

That is the rumor...I will confirm my sources information soon...and let the world know.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2008, 01:15:15 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 17, 2008, 04:41:52 PM
Oh, and from a much prior post - I have heard that Coach Hayford is having a 09-10 preseason tourney in Spokane for once...

Non-conference, not preseason.

Congratulations on being the first poster to make me type that reminder in 2008-09. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 18, 2008, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2008, 01:15:15 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 17, 2008, 04:41:52 PM
Oh, and from a much prior post - I have heard that Coach Hayford is having a 09-10 preseason tourney in Spokane for once...

Non-conference, not preseason.

Congratulations on being the first poster to make me type that reminder in 2008-09. :D

Thanks for the nefarious credit.  I stand in humiliation and well deserved chastisement ! :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 18, 2008, 06:29:32 PM
Okay - so here is the scoop from my VERY reliable source:

Whitworth will have at least 5 Non-conference games in Spokane in 2009-2010.

Virginia-Wesleyen, Wisconsin Stout, 2 Minnesota schools and at least 1 California school as well.

The Pirates will be attending the Washington University tournament as their non-conference road trip that winter.

Yeah for Whitworth and Spokane !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 19, 2008, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 18, 2008, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2008, 01:15:15 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 17, 2008, 04:41:52 PM
Oh, and from a much prior post - I have heard that Coach Hayford is having a 09-10 preseason tourney in Spokane for once...

Non-conference, not preseason.

Congratulations on being the first poster to make me type that reminder in 2008-09. :D

Thanks for the nefarious credit.  I stand in humiliation and well deserved chastisement ! :-\

Hey, somebody's gotta be first ... right?

That's a nice start to a non-conference 2009-10 schedule for Whitworth, by the way. Four of those five games will be regional contests, which is always Priority One in scheduling (especially when you're in a remote outpost league like the NWC).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 19, 2008, 04:12:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 19, 2008, 01:47:51 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 18, 2008, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2008, 01:15:15 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 17, 2008, 04:41:52 PM
Oh, and from a much prior post - I have heard that Coach Hayford is having a 09-10 preseason tourney in Spokane for once...

Non-conference, not preseason.

Congratulations on being the first poster to make me type that reminder in 2008-09. :D

Thanks for the nefarious credit.  I stand in humiliation and well deserved chastisement ! :-\

Hey, somebody's gotta be first ... right?

That's a nice start to a non-conference 2009-10 schedule for Whitworth, by the way. Four of those five games will be regional contests, which is always Priority One in scheduling (especially when you're in a remote outpost league like the NWC).

Good point...I am always willing to be the first to stick my neck out.

My source is pretty excited about it too.  Good early season workouts for the guys.
Remote is a good word for us out here...but that is not always a bad thing either.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: uwwchamps on November 20, 2008, 02:58:53 AM
hi! does any whitman or lewis & clark fan know if one could stream either the radio or video broadcast of this week's lewis & clark tournament classic?  i'm a huge uw-whitewater fan and i'd love to be able to catch their games this weekend if possible.  thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 20, 2008, 03:57:46 AM
Quote from: uwwchamps on November 20, 2008, 02:58:53 AM
hi! does any whitman or lewis & clark fan know if one could stream either the radio or video broadcast of this week's lewis & clark tournament classic?  i'm a huge uw-whitewater fan and i'd love to be able to catch their games this weekend if possible.  thanks in advance!

Unfortunately, the LC-UWW game won't be broadcast at all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: uwwchamps on November 20, 2008, 12:50:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on November 20, 2008, 03:57:46 AM
Quote from: uwwchamps on November 20, 2008, 02:58:53 AM
hi! does any whitman or lewis & clark fan know if one could stream either the radio or video broadcast of this week's lewis & clark tournament classic?  i'm a huge uw-whitewater fan and i'd love to be able to catch their games this weekend if possible.  thanks in advance!

Unfortunately, the LC-UWW game won't be broadcast at all.

aww that sucks!  hopefully i'll find a live stats link or something.  thanks for the quick response!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 20, 2008, 03:40:24 PM
logs got corban tonight down in oregon. we handled them pretty easily last year, hopefully we can do it again
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 21, 2008, 01:09:07 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 20, 2008, 03:40:24 PM
logs got corban tonight down in oregon. we handled them pretty easily last year, hopefully we can do it again

Thanks for the info logshock...I forgot they were playing!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 21, 2008, 01:12:55 AM
Just checked the UPS website...Logs win 95-84.  Was happy to see the Logs only had 12 TOs to 19 assists...havent seen that in awhile.  Keep the wins coming!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 21, 2008, 02:20:19 AM
congrats on the win loggers. heard that the game wasn't pretty again. we'll see what lunt and some of the guys say about it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 22, 2008, 10:11:14 AM
Wow, what a start for the Bucs last night!

Riley was a stud = 13-16   6-8    2-4    4  3  7   3  34  2  5  1  0  38

Good luck tonight in the tourney finals !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 22, 2008, 10:45:50 AM
Hello to all.  Time for another great (no doubt) NWC season.  Yes the Pirates got it right last night and never trailed.  Riley took charge and kept shooting.  Fortunately they were nearly all going in.  He even had one 4 pt play.  Good to see the new players fitting in, except I don't know the deal with Felix last night.  Must be something, cause he will be a contributor this year is what I hear.

Looks like LC has a big game tonight.  I sure am thinking about heading there tonight.  Anyone else?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 22, 2008, 01:42:50 PM
NWHoops,

Good to hear from you again.  Wow, pretty good line for Riley.  How did he get his points, besides the 24 that came on 3's?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 22, 2008, 02:48:53 PM
Good game for the Pios last night. Probably one of the few I will be able to attend as I work nights now :( Papenfuss had a big game with 21. The Pios led most of the second half and extended their lead out to 15 at one point but then CSUEB went to the press and starting making a little comeback. The Pios are pretty raw. At one point there were three freshmen and on sophomore who never played last year on the floor. They have some talent though. They will miss Rivera on both ends. Rebounding looks like it will be an issue as will giving up a lot of layups. In other words, they are small. If they play a team with a real center it won't be pretty. As for the highly touted Warhawks they play tonight...I have no clue. They could get smoked by 30 or win by one. It is hard to say at this point of the season. Berggren only shot 5 threes last night! That has to be the fewest he has taken in his career, which I see as a good thing. However, I fear the Pios may take a lot more threes tonight if they are way smaller than the Warhawks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 22, 2008, 03:36:11 PM
Hey LogShow.  Good to be back. 

Riley had 6 three's for 18 pts, and only 2 FT's.  The 3's were all in the second half as well as 2 jumpers. 4 layins and an OFF Reb put back were during the first half.  Riley's game couldn't have been more opposite first to second half.  In fact, I don't think you could say he played that well first half.  Made up for it though in a big way second half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 22, 2008, 07:14:10 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 22, 2008, 03:36:11 PM
Hey LogShow.  Good to be back. 

Riley had 6 three's for 18 pts, and only 2 FT's.  The 3's were all in the second half as well as 2 jumpers. 4 layins and an OFF Reb put back were during the first half.  Riley's game couldn't have been more opposite first to second half.  In fact, I don't think you could say he played that well first half.  Made up for it though in a big way second half.

Wow, 6 3's in the second half...that is a bunch.  It will be interesting to see if he keeps on scoring (besides 3's) in the games to come.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 22, 2008, 10:09:55 PM
Whitworth wins at John Hopkins  70-60.  Close game til the last 5 minutes when WW pulls away.  2 wins in Non-conference to start the season.  Riley MVP of tourney. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 22, 2008, 10:13:18 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 22, 2008, 10:09:55 PM
Whitworth wins at John Hopkins  70-60.  Close game til the last 5 minutes when WW pulls away.  2 wins in Non-conference to start the season.  Riley MVP of tourney. 

Different night, different player stepping up.  Way to go Montgomery.  Congrats to the Bucs on the tourney championship and Riley for tourney MVP.

Any idea why Felix only got 3 minutes per game? Injury?  Waiting for maturity?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 22, 2008, 11:24:18 PM
Montgomery with 19 tonight, Riley had 16, Nakamura had 14.

Sounds like Felix isn't playing as much because of, A. the way montgomery has stepped up the last two games and B. he is still a little raw.  Now word on an injury, Hayford has never gone deep into his bench and with Montgomery and Jurich being able to put in good minutes he hasn't felt a need to go with Felix I'm guessing.  Hopefully he gets some work in LA, I'd like to see him ready to play at this level come conference play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 22, 2008, 11:29:53 PM
good job pirates, representing the NWC well so far
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 23, 2008, 12:24:20 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 22, 2008, 11:24:18 PM
Montgomery with 19 tonight, Riley had 16, Nakamura had 14.

Sounds like Felix isn't playing as much because of, A. the way montgomery has stepped up the last two games and B. he is still a little raw.  Now word on an injury, Hayford has never gone deep into his bench and with Montgomery and Jurich being able to put in good minutes he hasn't felt a need to go with Felix I'm guessing.  Hopefully he gets some work in LA, I'd like to see him ready to play at this level come conference play.

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 23, 2008, 12:24:50 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 22, 2008, 11:29:53 PM
good job pirates, representing the NWC well so far

Sure looking good so far.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 23, 2008, 01:02:26 AM
Montgomery is going to be a handful if he can stay healthy.  He is big, quick and has range.
Lots of speculation and questions about a guy who played <10 minutes in two games..two games WW won.  I guess this is all good.  Felix has been hyped up so much and if he will contribute, great!  WW will be even stronger.   
My hope is that Felix is simply sick with the flu or Hayford has him watching games so he understands how WW plays basketball.  WW has a program/system and you either do it or you don't play no matter how good your "skills" are or how big or tall you might be.  That's my guess at Felixism for tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 23, 2008, 03:30:34 AM
The Pios lost by ten to the number four team in the nation today. Not bad at all. Apparently the Pios played very poorly in the second half and the Warhawks pulled away. Sounds like the Pios put up a good effort. The Warhawks shot above 60% from the field and behind the arc. Hard to beat that. Meanwhile the Pios only shot 28% from behind the arc.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 23, 2008, 01:43:34 PM
too bad the pios didnt shoot a little better, that would have been a huge win
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 24, 2008, 09:59:23 AM
Well yes indeed.  A win against a top D3 team/conference would be good for the whole NWC.  Nice try LC.  I kinda have a sneaky feeling LC will be up this year and dare I say it UPS down?  No way UPS is down, is there?  My predictions hopefully in order:

Whitworth
LC
UPS
Pacific
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 24, 2008, 12:49:21 PM
from what i hear, LC is looking very good early, and might catch teams off guard with how good they are. the thing with UPS is that their freshmen are going to have to put in some quality minutes because they don't have that many experienced guys. Their non-conference (didn't want to be #2 on this board to call em preseason  ;D) games are crutial for the team to mature and learn the system and learn how to play together.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 24, 2008, 04:59:42 PM
QuoteLinfield always has plenty of talent, they just never quite get it done.

Pray tell. Please, opine on as to why that might be....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on November 24, 2008, 10:13:13 PM
logshock,

long time no talk.  im not sure what you mean by our loggers not bein expereinced?   we only graduated tailor marsh and have everybody else back onour roster???  we should be ok, shouldnt we?  we were picked #1 for a reason by the conference coaches.   i do not think we will have to rely on the freshman like you say. antwahn, jason, robert  krauel are all 3 all-american all confrence players, are they not?

why are you down playing us?  i dont understand.  we got 5 or 6 first place votes because we have alot of guys back this year and should win it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 25, 2008, 01:22:17 AM
Quote from: mtnman on November 24, 2008, 10:13:13 PM
logshock,

long time no talk.  im not sure what you mean by our loggers not bein expereinced?   we only graduated tailor marsh and have everybody else back onour roster???  we should be ok, shouldnt we?  we were picked #1 for a reason by the conference coaches.   i do not think we will have to rely on the freshman like you say. antwahn, jason, robert  krauel are all 3 all-american all confrence players, are they not?

why are you down playing us?  i dont understand.  we got 5 or 6 first place votes because we have alot of guys back this year and should win it

I am sorry (slight pet peeve), but if you are a die-hard loggers fan and have been around forever, can you atleast spell the players names correctly...haven't you been watching them or read a program?  This is your team, give the guys enough respect to spell their names correctly.

And you left out Weston Wood, and the younger Walker, who might have been role players, but contributors non-the-less.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 25, 2008, 01:34:26 AM
Quote from: mtnman on November 24, 2008, 10:13:13 PM
...antwahn, jason, robert  krauel are all 3 all-american all confrence players, are they not?
All Conference..definitely...All American unlikely to not a chance.  Foster has the skills to get consideration and if he does somehow make the 3rd team its because he leads his team deep into the NCAA Tournament.  I have seen All Americans, and no one in the NWC is a certain All American for 08-09.  And I will remain silent on the the butchering of Antwan Williams' first name.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on November 25, 2008, 01:45:30 AM
sorry logshow...  i guess i dont pay attentoin to the little things.  i do know that evrybody seems to be making excuses ALREADY for a logger team that should be really good.  logshock talks more about the coaching staff now as being personable than how they are xs and os and you seem to care more about my spelling than figureing out why the loggers are under-achieving now...  lc played corban and beat them by 30 points and we struggle and beat them by 10?  what is wrong with coach lunt?  our team has ALOT of guys left from bridglands last year=antwahn and jason started all 20somethin games that year?

what gives?  what is going on down there?  so i cant spell (you say), i know when a team is underacheiving...what is wrong with us - if you are so close to the program (logshow/sjock), you tell me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on November 25, 2008, 01:49:06 AM
anyone see whitman play?  how did they play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 25, 2008, 01:49:42 AM
Yea LogShow, what gives?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 25, 2008, 01:57:12 AM
Quote from: mtnman on November 25, 2008, 01:49:06 AM
anyone see whitman play?  how did they play?
You know thats always the problem with Whitman, no one watches them play but the other team.  Your favorite coach did say this, "To be honest, I'm really encouraged by the way we played," first-year Whitman coach Eric Bridgeland said. "We only lost by two points at the end, despite going 21 of 38 from the free throw line and missing the first of five one-and-ones. We didn't get the W, but we got everything else. Cal State is a very good team that took Lewis & Clark to the wire last night, and Lewis & Clark is also a very good team."

I love the "we didn't get the W, but we got everything else" part.  Classic!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 25, 2008, 02:27:28 AM
I am not overly concerned with spelling, but have you ever seen someone spell their name Tailor?  Come'on thats someone who makes suits.

I don't think I have ever claimed to be "close" with the program.  I have watched lots of games over the years, and occasionally talk with some of the players, and other people around school.  So sometimes I think I might have a bit of a feel for what's going on.   Yes they do have 3 very good players in Foster, Willams, and Krauel.  And Boice is a solid player...but what to they have after that?  I bunch of untested/unproven players that are getting their feet wet right now.  So that could be part of it.  But even still they shouldn't struggle against Santa Cruz.  I can't put my finger on why they have struggled this year so far.  Maybe they have put in a new philosophy and are adjusting.  Why do our 2 preseason all-americans still turn the ball over too much.  We have all sorts of size, but can't rebound.  Or how bout a guy that can consistantly hit an outside shot.  I am not down on my team...or even concerned at this point.  It is very early in the season, and they still have lots of time to gel and come together.  Conference play is the most important, but they still have more then a month to keep getting better.

I am sure some will question the coach...but how much responsibility should he carry?  If they work on rebounding all week, yet don't rebound in the game, what gives?  Players are the ones out there.  What is the difference between the current team and the ones with McVey, Curtiss, and Walker or when Shelton and Glynn played?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 25, 2008, 02:33:37 PM
Logshow I have come to the conclusion that mtnman is intentionally spelling names wrong just to try and irritate people. I'm actaully quite surprised that he hasn't spelled my or your name wrong, but I guess that would just be a little too obvious. The fact that he spelled Robert's last name correctly is what solidified that belief, because enough people can't even say correctly let alone spell it, esspecially someone who considers peoples names to be "little things".

Well mtnmangina (Is that how you spell your full name? Oh well, it doesn't matter, its just a little thing.) You seem to be all knowing, so why don't you tell everybody here what is wrong with UPS. I suppose you'll start by saying that Lunt is just a horrible coach and doesn't know how to recruit and he is lazy and never in the office. And then you can go on to say how Assistant Coach Robles doesn't know anything about because he played at UC Santa Cruz and they barely won any games so he doesn't know what it takes to win. Then you conclude about how if Bridgeland were still here that UPS would have one 5 straight titles and be working on winning their fifth. You're bitter that "he" couldn't get his job back here, and we know how hard "he" tried. Please let out your frustrations, I understand, on these boards you can do it anonymously and people (well at least most people) won't know who you are. Since you know a lot more about the team than you actually let on, there no need for me to tell you that we graduated 3 seniors last year and that after foster krauel, williams, and boyce other players have not seen consistent large sums of minutes. That's only 4 players (3 who foul a lot), don't you play basketball with 5? You obviously know how the press works, how you need all 5 people to be doing their individual part in the press. A team is only as strong as their weakest link, especially defensively. All I know is what I see at games and here from occasional conversations with coaches and players. I watched one practice, but I'm not at all of them. I'm not a coach, and don't ever plan on being one, so why would I talk X's and O's. I just watch the games and like to see the loggers win, I have no reason to sit at home and come up with new schemes to win games. But just for you, next game I'll sit right behind the loggers bench with my stat sheet and white board and when Lunt calls a timeout I'll just hop down on the floor into the huddle and tell the guys what they need to do better and draw up the play to run coming out of the TO. Ok? Sound like a plan? Underachieving, isn't quite the word I would use to describe the loggers, they are 3-0 and improving, its better for them to struggle now than during conference. All that really matters is that they play their best ball during January/February/March. 

Also, I heard you were at the UPS-Corban game, what did you think? So far you haven't brought anything to the table about this UPS team aside from criticism, so what are you're ideas? Please enlighten us...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 25, 2008, 02:52:03 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 25, 2008, 01:57:12 AM
Quote from: mtnman on November 25, 2008, 01:49:06 AM
anyone see whitman play?  how did they play?
You know thats always the problem with Whitman, no one watches them play but the other team.  Your favorite coach did say this, "To be honest, I'm really encouraged by the way we played," first-year Whitman coach Eric Bridgeland said. "We only lost by two points at the end, despite going 21 of 38 from the free throw line and missing the first of five one-and-ones. We didn't get the W, but we got everything else. Cal State is a very good team that took Lewis & Clark to the wire last night, and Lewis & Clark is also a very good team."

I love the "we didn't get the W, but we got everything else" part.  Classic!

Haha, oh man that is pretty funny. What else is there to get besides the win? Might as well say "good job guys we finished that game in second place." NWHOOPS where did you get that quote? Was it a comment to newspaper or something? Too bad we can't get a Whitman player to post on here and find out what he said to them in the locker room. Probably something a long the lines of making them wish they were never born cause they can't shoot freethrows. Jeez I feel sorry for them. I hope they didn't have a 8 hour meeting where they had to watch film and tally up everything they did wrong that night. Is CalTech on their schedule this year? If so, someone needs to give them the warning to keep their heads down and covered to protect themselves from flying wedding rings. Even if they win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 25, 2008, 03:29:16 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 25, 2008, 02:27:28 AM
I am sure some will question the coach...but how much responsibility should he carry?  If they work on rebounding all week, yet don't rebound in the game, what gives?  Players are the ones out there.  What is the difference between the current team and the ones with McVey, Curtiss, and Walker or when Shelton and Glynn played?

LogShow, I kinda commented on this a while ago, but I think it has to do with two things 1)Mental toughness. The guys you mentioned above had it, if things weren't going their way, you couldn't tell by their body language and actions. Sometimes you can here the players now sitting on the bench b*tching and moaning to the ref about a call that was made on them five minutes ago. They need to get over it. All that complaining is just gonna irrirtate the ref and make him more likely to make another call on you when you go in. That has been one of my biggest pet peeves the past couple of years.

And Secondly, teams of the past had outstanding hardnosed role players. Mario Mendoza and Chris O'Donnell (sp?) came from JUCO programs ready to contribute right away. They didn't need time to get their feet wet. Anytime there was a loose ball or rebound that was coming down into a group of players and one of them was on the floor you knew who was gonna end up with the ball. They weren't stars, but they sure made a huge difference when it came down to winning games. The player who just graduated recently that was similar was Weston Wood.

I think for them to reach their lofty expectaions, someone on this years team needs to step up and be that decent sized roll player that will rebound and give everything he's got just to get possession of the ball.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 25, 2008, 09:39:26 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 25, 2008, 02:52:03 PM
Haha, oh man that is pretty funny. What else is there to get besides the win? Might as well say "good job guys we finished that game in second place." NWHOOPS where did you get that quote? Was it a comment to newspaper or something?...

http://www.whitman.edu/whitman/index.cfm?objectid=E5943C67-94FB-BD29-853775A8DC63AD87
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 12:48:11 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 25, 2008, 02:52:03 PMIs CalTech on their schedule this year? If so, someone needs to give them the warning to keep their heads down and covered to protect themselves from flying wedding rings. Even if they win.

Huh? Bridgeland will take off his wedding ring and throw it at a player if he does something wrong? Or are you hinting at something else? I've never heard of a coach throwing his wedding ring at a player before.

If it's true, it doesn't sound like a maneuver that would go over real well with his wife. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 26, 2008, 12:58:04 AM
Pios beat Evergreen State tonight 73 to 61. Papenfuss had another solid game with 19 points and Hollins the freshman continues to impress, putting up 16. Berggren only 1-7 from behind the arc. Overall the Pios shot 25% from behind the arc. Evergreen State shot only 13% from behind the arc so it didn't matter but those numbers need to change or the Pios will end up being very inconsistent like last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 26, 2008, 01:25:20 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 25, 2008, 09:39:26 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 25, 2008, 02:52:03 PM
Haha, oh man that is pretty funny. What else is there to get besides the win? Might as well say "good job guys we finished that game in second place." NWHOOPS where did you get that quote? Was it a comment to newspaper or something?...

http://www.whitman.edu/whitman/index.cfm?objectid=E5943C67-94FB-BD29-853775A8DC63AD87

good looking out
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 26, 2008, 01:30:26 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 12:48:11 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 25, 2008, 02:52:03 PMIs CalTech on their schedule this year? If so, someone needs to give them the warning to keep their heads down and covered to protect themselves from flying wedding rings. Even if they win.

Huh? Bridgeland will take off his wedding ring and throw it at a player if he does something wrong? Or are you hinting at something else? I've never heard of a coach throwing his wedding ring at a player before.

If it's true, it doesn't sound like a maneuver that would go over real well with his wife. :D

Apparently it happened during the postgame talk after a 40+ point win. I don't think it hit any players. If I remember what one of the guys told me, it either bounced off the wall or a locker or something and one of the assistant coaches ended up with it.

haha thats sounds like a one way ticket to the dog house to me   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mtnman on November 26, 2008, 11:56:25 PM
logschok logshow

i found this web site adn thought i would have some fun and poke a round a little.  it seems to me that you both are bitter. i am not sure at what.  i asked why the current team was strugling and why we had to depend on freshman when we were picked number 1 by the coaches.  all i got in return was bridg bashing. 

i will leave you with this-he was and is always good to me. all the players i treated seemed to really like him and playing for him. he was intnse,but you to seem to be out to ruin his name and all he did for ups.

good luck with that.  i wish ups well. i get the feeling that if coach lunt keeps strugling,it will be the players fault or bridgs fault or at leest you will make up a story to clame such. i thought your story bout him throwing his wedding ring went to far.

push on, 'logger' fans.

peace.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 27, 2008, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: mtnman on November 26, 2008, 11:56:25 PM
logschok logshow

i found this web site adn thought i would have some fun and poke a round a little.  it seems to me that you both are bitter. i am not sure at what.  i asked why the current team was strugling and why we had to depend on freshman when we were picked number 1 by the coaches.  all i got in return was bridg bashing. 

i will leave you with this-he was and is always good to me. all the players i treated seemed to really like him and playing for him. he was intnse,but you to seem to be out to ruin his name and all he did for ups.

good luck with that.  i wish ups well. i get the feeling that if coach lunt keeps strugling,it will be the players fault or bridgs fault or at leest you will make up a story to clame such. i thought your story bout him throwing his wedding ring went to far.

push on, 'logger' fans.

peace.



Mtnman, where's the holiday cheer?

You are more then titled to your opinion, and I know you like to stir the pot.  But if you read my last post, I dont think I ever engaged in any "Bridge Bashing". 

QuoteI am not overly concerned with spelling, but have you ever seen someone spell their name Tailor?  Come'on thats someone who makes suits.

I don't think I have ever claimed to be "close" with the program.  I have watched lots of games over the years, and occasionally talk with some of the players, and other people around school.  So sometimes I think I might have a bit of a feel for what's going on.   Yes they do have 3 very good players in Foster, Willams, and Krauel.  And Boice is a solid player...but what to they have after that?  I bunch of untested/unproven players that are getting their feet wet right now.  So that could be part of it.  But even still they shouldn't struggle against Santa Cruz.  I can't put my finger on why they have struggled this year so far.  Maybe they have put in a new philosophy and are adjusting.  Why do our 2 preseason all-americans still turn the ball over too much.  We have all sorts of size, but can't rebound.  Or how bout a guy that can consistantly hit an outside shot.  I am not down on my team...or even concerned at this point.  It is very early in the season, and they still have lots of time to gel and come together.  Conference play is the most important, but they still have more then a month to keep getting better.

I am sure some will question the coach...but how much responsibility should he carry?  If they work on rebounding all week, yet don't rebound in the game, what gives?  Players are the ones out there.  What is the difference between the current team and the ones with McVey, Curtiss, and Walker or when Shelton and Glynn played?

You had posed a question about why UPS was underachieving I weighed in with my opinion.  I feel like I had put the majority of the onus on the players...and always have.  So I am not sure, why you were taking that angle. 

No need to question my fanhood, I am definately not bitter, and will always support the Logs to the end.  Sure I have been a bit disappointed that they haven't been in the national tournament, but they have had two successful years...just not quite up to the high standards that UPS has set.

Yes, they have struggled out of the gate, but they are still 3-0...with a month to gel and get better before the real "season" starts.  I have every reason to believe that Lunt and the Loggers will be ready to roll at the beginning of conference.

You mentioned the players you treated...were you an athletic trainer?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 27, 2008, 08:42:44 PM
On a side note...Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 28, 2008, 12:52:16 PM
WW plays Caltech today, Chapman tomorrow at the CIT/OXY Thanksgiving Classic.  Go Bucs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 28, 2008, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 28, 2008, 12:52:16 PM
WW plays Caltech today, Chapman tomorrow at the CIT/OXY Thanksgiving Classic.  Go Bucs!

Ah, the annual WW/CalTech showdown...lol.  nwhoops, what's your line on the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 28, 2008, 04:18:53 PM
The Logs take on Dominican down in Turlock California today...Go get 'em Logs! :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 28, 2008, 06:10:35 PM
logshow careful calling it the "national tournament" one of the hall-of-famers might be quick to correct you making sure you know its called the "NCAA Tournament"  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 28, 2008, 06:18:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 28, 2008, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 28, 2008, 12:52:16 PM
WW plays Caltech today, Chapman tomorrow at the CIT/OXY Thanksgiving Classic.  Go Bucs!

Ah, the annual WW/CalTech showdown...lol.  nwhoops, what's your line on the game?
i got WW by 33. any takers?  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 28, 2008, 07:11:07 PM
Quote from: mtnman on November 26, 2008, 11:56:25 PM
logschok logshow

i found this web site adn thought i would have some fun and poke a round a little.  it seems to me that you both are bitter. i am not sure at what.  i asked why the current team was strugling and why we had to depend on freshman when we were picked number 1 by the coaches.  all i got in return was bridg bashing. 

i will leave you with this-he was and is always good to me. all the players i treated seemed to really like him and playing for him. he was intnse,but you to seem to be out to ruin his name and all he did for ups.

good luck with that.  i wish ups well. i get the feeling that if coach lunt keeps strugling,it will be the players fault or bridgs fault or at leest you will make up a story to clame such. i thought your story bout him throwing his wedding ring went to far.

push on, 'logger' fans.

peace.



1st of all, have some fun on this website, no one is holding you back, that's what you said you came to do, so do it.
2nd I like to think that I have a little bit of knowledge about the game of basketball and can be critical of teams, especially UPS, but bitter certainly not. This is the 2nd time you've made such an accusation towards me. I'm going to need some evidence of this. I love coming on here and talking hoops. Isn't that what this is here for? Although I find the attention to be quite flattering, I'd say 90% of the time you are too busy "logshock bashing" too talk hoops   :'( brings a tear to my eye.  Another 9% is spent talking about your god AKA Bridgeland and how everybody is hating on him. And the last 1% of your posts ask why the loggers are struggling? 3-0, getting to know where and how your teammates are going to play, and improving everyday doesn't sound like a team that is struggling at this point in the season.  ???

I have to say that I'm a big fan of having a good debate, but you are really taking Greg Sager's personal quote to heart "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
     -- Homer J. Simpson"

especially when it comes to your boy bridgeland. I kinda feel like I'm debating against a little kid whose only argument is "no, no, uh uh, that's not true" Give me some evidence.
It's not possible for me to take away the 3 straight NWC crowns, nor would I want to. UPS is my team that wouldn't make sense.

I do agree with you on one thing, throwing your wedding ring is going to far, throw a pen or maybe a gum wrapper something not of value. Maybe its just me, but when I get mad and throw something it always seems to break or magically disappear. But if you don't take my word on the story, ask one of the former players. So far I've seen, McVey, Marsh, RJ Barsh, Jon Bond, James Melton, both Walkers, Shelton, and Delong. Or as a last resort, if none of those guys are there, ask Lunt or Robles since one of them ended up with it. But make sure there is a witness there, because history has shown that you like to deny deny deny. happy holidays
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on November 28, 2008, 07:35:19 PM
Whitworth 88, Caltech 38

CIT: Travis Haussler 11 pts and 7 rebs, Ryan Elmquist 12
Whitworth: Fekix Friedt 18 pts and 16 rebs, Tim Sellereit 17, Jordan Call 11, Troy Kalbhenn 11, Steve Stockton 10, Mike Odland 10

Halftime: Whitworth 44-17
Rebounds: 46-14 (*Zero* offensive rebounds for Caltech)
Records: Caltech 0-4, Whitworth 3-0

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 28, 2008, 07:47:24 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on November 28, 2008, 07:35:19 PM
Whitworth 88, Caltech 38

CIT: Travis Haussler 11 pts and 7 rebs, Ryan Elmquist 12
Whitworth: Fekix Friedt 18 pts and 16 rebs, Tim Sellereit 17, Jordan Call 11, Troy Kalbhenn 11, Steve Stockton 10, Mike Odland 10

Halftime: Whitworth 44-17
Rebounds: 46-14 (*Zero* offensive rebounds for Caltech)
Records: Caltech 0-4, Whitworth 3-0

OxyBob

Thanks for the update Oxybob...nice to have you back around!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 28, 2008, 09:25:15 PM
Update from D3hoops homepage:

UPS over Dominican at the half   37-27
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 28, 2008, 09:47:49 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 28, 2008, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 28, 2008, 12:52:16 PM
WW plays Caltech today, Chapman tomorrow at the CIT/OXY Thanksgiving Classic.  Go Bucs!

Ah, the annual WW/CalTech showdown...lol.  nwhoops, what's your line on the game?
WW plays this game and takes the win cause it is good for the end of year record, but moreso I think Hayford uses it to evaluate his bench players 6-12+.  Pretty sure starters don't even play or if they do it might be 5 minutes or less.  Tomorrows game versus Chapman will be a good game and the line might be less than 34.

Oh I see WW has won and "covered."  Go Bucs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 28, 2008, 09:49:02 PM
people certainly are in the giving mood. thanks for the karma boost...on a separate note 88-38 wow. it was an even bigger margin than i thought

loggers lead 60-46 with 10:13 left. finish strong fellas
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 28, 2008, 10:15:13 PM
loggers win 76-64. The thing I'm most impressed with 19 o-boards by ups
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 28, 2008, 10:39:01 PM
The box score indicates Whitworth did play the starting five, plus Gebbers (sixth man?) at all during the game.  Bodes well for the guys off the bench, but I hope the starters won't be rusty against Chapman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 28, 2008, 10:49:44 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on November 28, 2008, 10:15:13 PM
loggers win 76-64. The thing I'm most impressed with 19 o-boards by ups

Congrats on the win Logs...hmmm kind of low scoring for the Logs...but way to board!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 29, 2008, 10:14:53 PM
WW remains undeafeated with a solid 62-47 victory over Chapman.  Real good defense from the rested starters as Montgomery and Nakamura lead the scoring.  Jurich had a nice 12-12 double double to earn my POTG.  WW set the tone by holding Chapman to 5 points in the opening 10 minutes and pretty much just help back any runs from getting too large or answering with their own.  Riley could have but didn't shoot very much.  1-4 from 3 pt for David, 4-14 for the team (28.6%).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 29, 2008, 10:18:18 PM
New top 25 should be out early next week.  It will be interesting to see which NWC teams make it in.  Any reason WW and UPS might be held out?

By votes WW was 34th and UPS 31st in preseason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 30, 2008, 12:00:04 AM
The Loggers beat Cal Maritime 82 - 70. Foster had 29 points and 5 boards while Williams had 14 points. They were losing 39 -37 at the half but used a smothering press to disrupt the Keelhaulers. They fell as far as 8 points down in the second half but took the lead for good with a Ferguson trey with 4:19 left.  Pictures should be up later.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 30, 2008, 03:48:18 AM
Another blowout win for the Pios as they beat Portland Bible 90-61 tonight. Papenfuss had 25. Next game is December 9th at Portland State. The Pios came within one point of beating PSU last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 30, 2008, 01:16:51 PM
Thanks for the update cawcdad!  Glad to see that the Loggers won...sound like they put together a solid second half.  I am happy to see those number for Foster, I have been waiting for him to put up some numbers this season.  Hopefully he will keep it up.

Go Logs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 30, 2008, 01:19:09 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 29, 2008, 10:18:18 PM
New top 25 should be out early next week.  It will be interesting to see which NWC teams make it in.  Any reason WW and UPS might be held out?

By votes WW was 34th and UPS 31st in preseason.

Should be interesting, both UPS and WW deserve to be in Top 25...wonder if the voters will see it that way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 30, 2008, 06:18:00 PM
Way to represent Boxers!!  Seems like they beat the two SCIAC teams handily over in Hawaii.

Last night was a great night for the conference, if I'm not mistaken, the only loss was Whitman's to Trinity, which is nothing to be ashamed of.  I think all other 8 teams were in action, and all won.

Great job NWC!

Hopefully both Whitworth and UPS gets in the top 25!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 30, 2008, 07:00:32 PM
Quote from: NWCer on November 30, 2008, 06:18:00 PM
Way to represent Boxers!!  Seems like they beat the two SCIAC teams handily over in Hawaii.

Last night was a great night for the conference, if I'm not mistaken, the only loss was Whitman's to Trinity, which is nothing to be ashamed of.  I think all other 8 teams were in action, and all won.

Great job NWC!

Hopefully both Whitworth and UPS gets in the top 25!

Way to represent NWC!  I like hearing that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 30, 2008, 09:18:08 PM
UPS-Cal Maritime game pics (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=2371) are posted. I particulary like this one. (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=2371&photo=0195) ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 30, 2008, 11:16:47 PM
Quote from: cawcdad on November 30, 2008, 09:18:08 PM
UPS-Cal Maritime game pics (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=2371) are posted. I particulary like this one. (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=2371&photo=0195) ;D

Nice work on the pics...thanks for posting them.  I must agree Fosters dunk is by far the best!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 01, 2008, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: NWCer on November 30, 2008, 06:18:00 PM
Way to represent Boxers!!  Seems like they beat the two SCIAC teams handily over in Hawaii.

Nov. 28

Pacific 86, Whittier 73

WC: Marcus Gibson 15, Mike Archuletta 13, Travis Crow 13, DaMon Perry 11
PU: Garold Howe 23 pts and 7 rebs, Ross Bartlett 20 pts and 5 rebs, Carson Bartlett 14

Halftime: Whittier 45-35
Rebounds: Pacific 42-40

Whittier led by 10 at halftime, but Pacific tied it at 54 with 13 minutes to go, and then went on a 9-0 run and were never headed.

Nov. 29

Pacific 78, Cal Lutheran 65

CLU: Kyle Knudsen 15, Marquis Johnson 13 pts and 6 rebs, Aaron Van Klaveren 10, Greg Grimm, Andy Meier 9 pts and 12 rebs
PU: Garold Howe 18 pts and 6 rebs, Ross Bartlett 11 pts and 6 rebs, Micah Mooney 13, Jonathan Jury 10

Halftime: Pacific 36-22
Rebounds: CLU 45-38
Records: CLU 3-1, Pacific 3-2

Pacific led all the way. Cal Lutheran shot only 21% in the first half. Pacific had a 24-point second half lead before CLU made it respectable.

Other games of note:

Willamette 80, Pomona 72

Pomona: Adam Chaimowitz 14 pts and 6 rebs, Greg Wright 14 pts and 8 rebs, Shawn Stephan 13, Jeremy Namkung 8 pts, 5 rebs and 6 assists
WU: Cameron Mitchell 35 pts (13-for-17 FGs) and 12 rebs, Kyler McClary 13 pts and 8 rebs, Nick Babij 12

Halftime: WU 44-37
Rebounds: WU 31-29
Records: Pomona 1-3, Willamette 2-2

George Fox 87, Whittier 77

WU: Mike Archuletta 21 pts and 7 rebs, Marcus Gibson 20, DaMon Perry 18 pts and 7 rebs
GFU: Jack Martin 37 pts, 6 rebs and 5 assists, Evan Atwater 12

Halftime: GFU 46-40
Rebounds: GFU 42-33
Records: Whittier 0-4, George Fox 1-4

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 01, 2008, 02:34:02 PM
wow, those are some big games by guys I haven't heard of or thought they could light it up like that...I will have to keep my eye on them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 02, 2008, 12:33:00 AM
New Top 25 is up

http://d3hoops.com/top25/

Loggers at #14 and Whitworth at #15 congrats guys.

Bout time we get some love in the NWC with 2 ranked teams!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 02, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
Top 15!  Thats more than I expected but quality wins on the road caught some attention.

Congrats to my Pirates and eh eh...well done Loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 02, 2008, 02:18:04 PM
I would like to thank OxyBob and whoever let him use their terminal for post reply # 2763 wherein the NWC swept the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 02, 2008, 02:26:06 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 02, 2008, 02:18:04 PM
I would like to thank OxyBob and whoever let him use their terminal for post reply # 2763 wherein the NWC swept the SCIAC.

Not quite. Cal Lutheran beat GFU 76-70, and CMS beat Willamette 71-69.

Tonight: NAIA-II Warner Pacific (4-1) @ Linfield (1-2)

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 02, 2008, 06:00:53 PM
   
QuoteLinfield (1-2)
>:(   ;D

Those two losses were to Division I teams, then?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 02, 2008, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 02, 2008, 06:00:53 PM
QuoteLinfield (1-2)
Those two losses were to Division I teams, then?

No, Linfield lost to Northwest Christian and Concordia, which are in the Cascade Collegiate Conference. The Wildcats' next three opponents -- Warner Pacific, Evergreen State and Corban -- are also in the CCC.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 02, 2008, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 02, 2008, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 02, 2008, 06:00:53 PM
QuoteLinfield (1-2)
Those two losses were to Division I teams, then?

No, Linfield lost to Northwest Christian and Concordia, which are in the Cascade Collegiate Conference. The Wildcats' next three opponents -- Warner Pacific, Evergreen State and Corban -- are also in the CCC.

OxyBob

oxybob you got some serious knowledge on college hoops. props
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 02, 2008, 08:43:56 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on December 02, 2008, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 02, 2008, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 02, 2008, 06:00:53 PM
QuoteLinfield (1-2)
Those two losses were to Division I teams, then?

No, Linfield lost to Northwest Christian and Concordia, which are in the Cascade Collegiate Conference. The Wildcats' next three opponents -- Warner Pacific, Evergreen State and Corban -- are also in the CCC.

OxyBob

oxybob you got some serious knowledge on college hoops. props

That what he does...drop knowledge.  And also provide the much needed wit on these boards...read up on the SCIAC board, he has got great material.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 02, 2008, 11:26:25 PM
...and three writers to complement the three researchers, all coordinated from a Blackbury on the bridge of a 67' Bertram Enclosed Bridge - 670E down in Oxnard harbor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 03, 2008, 03:01:18 AM
Warner Pacific 73, Linfield 71

Heartbreaker for the Wildcats. Warner Pacific was up 65-55 with under 7 minutes to go, but Linfield came back and tied it at 69. With the game tied at 71, Linfield had several chances but couldn't score. Cody Tesoro fouled Adam Moore with 14 seconds left. Moore made both FTs, and Tesoro's 3-pointer missed at the buzzer.

Linfield: K.C. Wiser 15, Drew Schroeder 14 (7-for-8 FGs), Cody Tesoro 13
Warner Pacific: Keylone Riley 18 pts (8-for-9 FGs), 12 rebs and 8 blocks, Adam Moore 20, Steffen Harvey 10

Halftime: Linfield 42-39
Rebounds: Linfield 37-36
Records: Linfield 1-3, Warner Pacific 5-1

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 03, 2008, 11:51:41 AM
after reading his other posts, I would like to apologize to oxybob for assuming his knowledge only refered to college hoops. The dude has got some serious worldly knowledge. If I knew then what I know now, I would have written in Oxybob for President on my ballet ;D

But seriously though. Oxy I hope you continue to handle your knowledge like rapper Lil' Wayne, and "wobble wobble drop it like its hot"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 03, 2008, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on December 03, 2008, 11:51:41 AM
after reading his other posts, I would like to apologize to oxybob for assuming his knowledge only refered to college hoops. The dude has got some serious worldly knowledge. If I knew then what I know now, I would have written in Oxybob for President on my ballet

One, I don't look good in tights. Two, I think one US President from Oxy is quite enough. Anyway, I'd rather be VP. If the President is competent you get to sit around and do nothing for 8 years except go to an occasional state funeral, fly on Air Force Two, and have 24-hour Secret Service protection. Nice gig.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 03, 2008, 04:51:01 PM
and i embarrass myself once again. the word i meant was ballot.

In other news the loggers got Warner Pac tomorrow night. It will be interesting to see how they stack up. Might give us a little better gage on how good Linfield actually is. Are they better than their 1-3 record because they have faced off against some pretty talented teams, or are they having a rough start on their way to a down year?

Should also get a good better idea about the loggers seeing how they do against a team with a winning record and some pretty good players. Their next 2 games might be a good predictor of this season. If they can hang with Warner Pac on thursday and then DII St. Martins (8-2) on Saturday, I will be very confident when conference time comes around. If not, it could be deja vu all over again (06-07 and 07-08) I'm pulling strongly for the former rather than the latter.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 03, 2008, 05:07:44 PM
Would it be appropriate to start a new string for all the OxyBob love?  Is it true that Bob is a bizzilionaire who sends money to all those who compliment him?  You are great Bob.  Please send CHECK to me at 123 main st seattle wa.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 04, 2008, 02:11:32 AM
Whitworth back on the road to California, going back to cali cali cali...some LL for ya old timers.

The Pirates will play Cal State East Bay in the first round on Thursday at 2:00 p.m.  East Bay lost the season opener to LC 86-78, but came back to edge Whitman 86-84 the following night.

Whitworth will play either Claremont-Mudd-Scripps or Southwestern (Ariz.) in the second round. C-M-S is 3-1 this season and has a win over Willamette.

Redlands has set up a tournament web page that will include a tournament schedule and results, as well as links to live stats for every game. The tournament web site can be found here:

http://www.goredlands.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/Fulmer (http://www.goredlands.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/Fulmer.)

These games might give us a peak into conference strength.  Go Bucs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 02:43:45 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 03, 2008, 12:09:30 PMAnyway, I'd rather be VP. If the President is competent you get to sit around and do nothing for 8 years except go to an occasional state funeral, fly on Air Force Two, and have 24-hour Secret Service protection. Nice gig.

John Nance Garner, bucket of warm "spit", yadda yadda yadda.

Quote from: logshock101 on December 03, 2008, 04:51:01 PM
and i embarrass myself once again. the word i meant was ballot.

That's a shame, since I had an entertaining mental picture of OxyBob doing Swan Lake on the White House lawn.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 03, 2008, 05:07:44 PM
Would it be appropriate to start a new string for all the OxyBob love?  Is it true that Bob is a bizzilionaire who sends money to all those who compliment him?

"Bizzilionaire"? No, I think that you've confused OxyBob with Snoop Dogg.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on December 04, 2008, 04:22:30 AM
Hello,
I don't get over to the B-ball board often, but with the Wildcats Football season ending a little early, I thought I'd come over and have some fun with you guys.

Talk has been about if Linfield's record is a good picture of whats to come.
I think not!
A Loss to NW Christian 72-70
Concordia                     92-82 OT
WP                                73-71
Each of those games could have ended with a different outcome.
The win at and over Western Oregon, a  pretty good D2 team is a plus.

I think this team will get better as the year goes on and might surprise
some people. As soon as K.C. Wiser, Erik Olson, & Drew Schroeder who have all had great individual games, put a good team effort in I think we will see a winning ball club. Time will tell.

The Cats are due, we will see how far Coach Doty can take them.

GO WILDCATS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 04, 2008, 06:49:29 PM
Bucs take the 1st of three this weekend...84 to 78...

Huge day by the big guys:

Jurich - 17 pts and 4 boards
Montgomery - 25 pts on 8 of 14 shooting along with 8 boards

Go Bucs !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 04, 2008, 11:42:25 PM
Lee Fulmer Tournament Update

Good win Pirates.  Held off a hot shooter and protected a slim lead.  Whitman wins as well.  Wouldn't it be fun to see if WW and Whitman end of facing each other on Sat.  Bridgeland's got his team forcing turnovers.  Sound familiar?

Another good night for NWC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 05, 2008, 02:30:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 02:43:45 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on December 03, 2008, 04:51:01 PM
and i embarrass myself once again. the word i meant was ballot.
That's a shame, since I had an entertaining mental picture of OxyBob doing Swan Lake on the White House lawn.

Ballet and basketball only mix when the score is 2-2.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 05, 2008, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 05, 2008, 02:30:36 PM
Ballet and basketball only mix when the score is 2-2.
OxyBob

that one went over my head.

but hey lets talk some logger hoops...

loggers had a tough loss last night. had a 2 point lead with 30 seconds left but warner pac kept getting oboards til they knocked down a 3 with 11 seconds left. foster had a great game with 38 points on 16-22 shooting and 9 boards. seems strange that he wasn't the one who put up the last shot. once again the loggers were killed by poor free throw shooting hitting only 12-21 from the charity stripe (i don't feel like that is a very appropriate name for how ups has shot them this year). The loggers also got dominated on the glass  10-22-32 to 27-30-57 (off-def-total) gonna be tough to win when the other team almost has as many oboards as you have total. that leads me to my next point. the loggers took 6 less shots that warner pac, yet they had 12 less TOs. or in other words 12 more possessions than WP. ups even shot a higher fieldgoal percentage than Warner Pac 51.4 to 48.7. Thats probably the 1st time that has happened since the pressing era began (that last statement was based on opinion, not facts) When has a UPS team shot above 50% and their opponents below 50%? its seemed like the last couple of seasons the loggers always shot in the low 40s while their opponents were up in the high 50s, low 60s. In my opinion loosing that game is not acceptable. No way in hell are you gonna win a conference like the NWC and not take care of the little things like hitting free throws or rebounding. Those are both things you can control. u gotta take care of business...im pretty disappointed (if you couldn't tell) warner pac has gotten us 3 straight times all of which could have, more like should have been logger victories. but hey they get another chance to improve and get better tomorrow against a tough St. Martins team. good luck guys
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 05, 2008, 08:40:09 PM

Ballet and basketball only mix when the score is 2-2.

OxyBob
[/quote]

logsock101, think pink chaffon
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 05, 2008, 11:04:34 PM
Lee Fulmer Tournament at Redlands...

Claremont 73, No. 15 Whitworth 68 Final

OxyBob
Title: Logs loss
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on December 05, 2008, 11:50:26 PM
Geez, logshock....

I listened to most of the game with WP and while the Logs got crushed on the boards (after dominating the past couple of games) they played tough away against a ranked NAIA team and were one or two breaks from winning the game.  They had a gimme near the end to win it which missed, and WP hit some big shots.  UPS has some weaknesses (it could use another 3 point shooter, Williams is fun and brilliant but he's gonna make you pull your hair out three or four times a game) but this is a darn good team.  Kaleb Shelton rocks and will bring some of the physical strength that the last two teams have lacked.  The front line is nifty offensively with Krauel and Foster, and the frosh Aberg is a sweet true point guard.  Hell, I don't think we've had one of those since Doolittle and if you remember him you are old as dirt.  Last night the frosh guard Hayman (who we're lucky to have and will be awesome) shot well but committed TOs in crucial situations midway through the second half that really hurt--chances to extend the 5 or 7 point lead that UPS had opened dissolved.   I think that Logs will be quite good in what promises to be a tough conference.     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 06, 2008, 01:55:23 AM
Whitworth loses to Claremont.  I am really surprised about this result.  Claremont played a solid game and a good first half, WW didn't.  Whitworth rallied and had a lead, 57-59 with 4:48 to go after being down by 10 at half.  Next 3 minutes were back in forth until Nakamura missed a second free throw and Claremont led by 2.  A layin made it 4, missed 3 by WW,  next 2 FT's by Claremont made it a 6 point lead at 0:42.  No miracle shots or Claremont mistakes and ClaremontMS beats its' former student (Coach Hayford, Masters Degree) 68-73.  Dang.  I wanted that Whitman game.  WW will face UC Santa Cruz Sat. at 6pm.

Whitman wins, 100-87 over UCSC and will play CMS for title tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 06, 2008, 02:38:41 AM
Willamette beats NAIA Menlo in Atherton 92-79.  Cameron Mitchell with his fifth double-double (in five games). :o

By the way, I'm the basketball reporter for the Willamette Collegian.  I've spent the last three months covering the football team's incredible run, but I'm more than ready for some hoops.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 06, 2008, 02:49:41 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on December 06, 2008, 02:38:41 AM
Willamette beats NAIA Menlo in Atherton 92-79.  Cameron Mitchell with his fifth double-double (in five games). :o

By the way, I'm the basketball reporter for the Willamette Collegian.  I've spent the last three months covering the football team's incredible run, but I'm more than ready for some hoops.
Mitchell is rolling.  An already very good player sounds as if he has improved.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 06, 2008, 12:56:49 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 06, 2008, 02:49:41 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on December 06, 2008, 02:38:41 AM
Willamette beats NAIA Menlo in Atherton 92-79.  Cameron Mitchell with his fifth double-double (in five games). :o

By the way, I'm the basketball reporter for the Willamette Collegian.  I've spent the last three months covering the football team's incredible run, but I'm more than ready for some hoops.
Mitchell is rolling.  An already very good player sounds as if he has improved.

He is rolling.  Bit surprised that he put up 37 the other week, but hats off to him, heck of a preformance.  Looking forward to seeing him play in conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 06, 2008, 12:58:25 PM
Speaking for individual game preformances, who has lit of the score board the most so far?
Is it Foster's 38 followed by Mitchell's 37?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 06, 2008, 03:52:35 PM
Don't be too surprised if the Bucs come out a little flat tonight too nwhoops.  The wednesday before the week of thanksgiving they went on a 10 day road trip where they played 4 games and spent about 4 whole days traveling.  They got back in Saturday night, had sunday through Tuesday to catch up on a week's worth of school work and get ahead on some stuff before finals next week, then left again wednesday morning (after a 6 am practice).  They came out flat against CSEB, and again against CMS.  Hopefully that was a wake-up call for them and they torch santa cruz tonight but I think the traveling has finally caught up to them.  I remember making three California trips in 1 football season was brutal...I couldn't imagine logging the miles that the bball teams have already this season. 

On the plus side, UPS has yet to look all that great.  Good, yes, but not top of the conference, deep into the playoffs great.  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 06, 2008, 06:52:10 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 06, 2008, 03:52:35 PM

On the plus side, UPS has yet to look all that great.  Good, yes, but not top of the conference, deep into the playoffs great.  ;D

Have you even seen UPS play yet?  Still too early in the season to get a beat on any of the teams yet.  So who is looking great so far
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 06, 2008, 10:03:12 PM
Well Rat I am glad to say they arent flat.  WW up 36-17 4:44 first half.

Go Pirates
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2008, 12:38:00 AM
The Pirates monkey stomp UCSC with a 90-58 win tonight.  Looked much better than the last two nights...just too bad it was only for third place  :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 07, 2008, 02:45:50 AM
Well the Logs fall again tonight to Saint Martins 78-83.  Too bad, sounds like it was a pretty close game.  UPS was down 2 with 2mins to go...but didn't score again until the buzzer.  Saint Martins did a good job of containing Foster, limiting him to just 8 points.

The Logs are off until after Christmas when they had back down to California.  Hopefully the Logs will keep getting better with these next few weeks of practice...conference play is not that far off! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 07, 2008, 03:32:49 PM
Claremont 79, Whitman 78

CMS: Chris Blees 35 pts, 9 rebs, 5 assists, Conner Faught 11 pts, 4 assists
WC: Chris Faidley 29, Brandon Shaw 23

Halftime: CMS 41-30
Rebounds: CMS 35-31
Records: Claremont 6-1, Whitman 3-4

Claremont edged Whitman to win the Lee Fulmer Tournament at Redlands. The Stags led by 22, 58-36, with 13 minutes to go, but the Missionaries went on a 13-0 run and only trailed 58-49 with 8:50 left. Whitman kept pecking away and got it down to 1 at 74-73 with 52 seconds remaining, but Claremont hit 4 straight free throws to get some breathing room. WC's Jordan Wheeler hit a 3-ball with 2 seconds left for the final score. Chris Blees had 35 points on 15-for-18 and was named the tournament MVP. The all-tournament team was Chapman's Justin Riley, Whitworth's Calvin Jurich, UCSC's Ryan Matsuoka, Whitman's Chris Faidley and CMS's Tejas Gala.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 07, 2008, 05:15:43 PM
i havent looked at the stats yet, but watching the game i felt that the loggers got beat on the boards again and didnt shoot free throws well again. they still had a chance to win, but made some careless turnovers and didnt take advantage of their opportunities. The refs didnt help much either, but in a game like that u cant expect them too. it was poorly officiated, but still the loggers had chances. UPS put on a nice run with a few minutes left, but then after another ups score lunt called a timeout and made a substitution which seemed to break the momentum. In my opinion I would have kept it going until either St Martins scored or called a timeout making them break the momentum. oh well hopefully the guys can regroup and get back on track after christmas
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 09, 2008, 12:19:59 AM
Posted this over on the women's basketball board as well, but since Coach Henderson was a former Willamette player and men's assistant coach, I felt it should be posted here too:

Willamette head women's basketball coach Bruce Henderson, 47, collapsed suddenly during practice and died earlier this evening.  Please keep Coach Henderson's family, team, and the Willamette community in your thoughts and prayers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 09, 2008, 10:44:37 AM
I saw the tragic news on the front page.  My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone at Willamette, especially his players , coaching staff, and most importantly his family.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 09, 2008, 02:15:30 PM
that is really too bad to die at such a young age. my thoughts are with all those who were a part of his life
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 09, 2008, 03:02:44 PM
While I haven't been on here in awhile, I felt the need to say that while at Willamette, I knew Bruce Henderson...and there has not been a more genuine, caring person than he.  Bruce was never too busy to sit down and talk or share an encouraging word with anyone that crossed his path. As a Bearcat fan, and someone who knew Bruce, I am deeply saddened by his passing, as I'm sure the entire Bearcat family is.

RIP Coach.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 09, 2008, 06:28:22 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on December 09, 2008, 12:19:59 AM
Willamette head women's basketball coach Bruce Henderson, 47, collapsed suddenly during practice and died earlier this evening.  Please keep Coach Henderson's family, team, and the Willamette community in your thoughts and prayers.
Very sad.  Thoughts and prayers to those in his life and especially his family, friends and team.  May God bless and comfort them all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 10, 2008, 02:03:50 AM
From us Rats who heard the news over the last couple of days, we share our condolences to the Willamette family.  Our prayers are with your players and staff, as well as Henderson's family.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 10, 2008, 03:32:16 AM
http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/news/mbx1209

The Pios lost by 11 to Division I Portland State tonight. They lost to PSU by one point last season. The Pios led by as many as 6 in the first half but it sounds like PSU's size got the better of the Pios in the second half. PSU led the entire second half and the Pios had the lead down to four at one point but PSU kept answering.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 10, 2008, 02:31:12 PM
Good effort by LC...that would have been a sweet upset!  I saw that game listed on the bottom line on ESPN.  I think its great that teams from the NWC play D1 schools, it really gives the kids a memorable experience.  And sometimes a memory of a lifetime, like when UPS knocked off UC-Riverside  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 11, 2008, 01:19:23 AM
Every Wednesday (depending on the mood of our webmaster), I'll try and post my recap of the past weekend's Willamette games.  Although this week was our last edition until January, below is the link to a short recap of Friday's game against Menlo and a preview of this Friday's tilt against Corban:

http://www.willamettecollegian.com/2008/12/10/menlo-outmatched-by-bearcats'-high-percentage-shooting/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 11, 2008, 08:00:49 PM
From the SCIAC Forum:

Quote from: cmsstag on December 11, 2008, 01:34:21 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 10, 2008, 07:57:38 PM
It appears as though every SCIAC team will face Chapman except Cal Lutheran.  A good measure perhaps.

Chapman has beaten both Claremont and Redlands (SCIAC) and lost to Whitworth and Whitman (NWC).  Yet Claremont beat my Whitworth Pirates and Whitman at Redlands.   Non conference games in December really help clear things up for the "Far" West power rankings!!

Its been a while since I have been on here, so I will try not to ruffle any feathers in doing so. I want to congratulate the CMS Stags for taking home the title in the Lee Fulmer Championship by beating two good teams in Whitman and Whitworth Colleges. I also want to congratulate Whitman college for the undeniable lack of sportsmanship after their loss to the stags Saturday night. Not only does the team show no class to the stags by going into there locker room and not accepting there trophy, but also a lack of respect to Redlands University for hosting the tournament. I didn't realize there were so many sore losers up there in the Northwest. The coach from Whitman should be embarrased by his actions.
As for the loss to Chapman as the Northwest have so deligently reminded me of. It was the first game of the season for the Stags, and with over 7 new faces on the team, it was bound to be rocky. The Stags played hard but in the end, there was just too many new faces on the team to give a better product on the floor. I am looking forward to seeing how many SCIAC teams fall to this very athletic Chapman team. They had a very bad showing at the Redlands Tournament. Losing two of their best players inside to injuries didn't help them too much either.

Whitman showing attitude?  What gives!!?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 11, 2008, 09:19:54 PM
I wonder if there was some reason behind those actions?  Seems kind of weird.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2008, 12:18:22 AM
Reason or no reason, the coach (Bridgeland) decides stuff like that.  He might not care but it reflects poorly on his program, school and our conference.  At least with one guy (cmsstag) and for all we know that guy is and AD, school president or father of a future recruit.  I don't see how offending or being rude is ever justified, particularly as an invited guest.  Bridgland probably knows that no one will ever care what happened after the Lee Fulmer Championship if he can have a winning season in 2008-09.  True, but it doesn't change the facts.   :(

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 12, 2008, 03:17:52 PM


Quote from: cmsstag on December 11, 2008, 01:34:21 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 10, 2008, 07:57:38 PM
It appears as though every SCIAC team will face Chapman except Cal Lutheran.  A good measure perhaps.

Chapman has beaten both Claremont and Redlands (SCIAC) and lost to Whitworth and Whitman (NWC).  Yet Claremont beat my Whitworth Pirates and Whitman at Redlands.   Non conference games in December really help clear things up for the "Far" West power rankings!!

Its been a while since I have been on here, so I will try not to ruffle any feathers in doing so. I want to congratulate the CMS Stags for taking home the title in the Lee Fulmer Championship by beating two good teams in Whitman and Whitworth Colleges. I also want to congratulate Whitman college for the undeniable lack of sportsmanship after their loss to the stags Saturday night. Not only does the team show no class to the stags by going into there locker room and not accepting there trophy, but also a lack of respect to Redlands University for hosting the tournament. I didn't realize there were so many sore losers up there in the Northwest. The coach from Whitman should be embarrased by his actions.
As for the loss to Chapman as the Northwest have so deligently reminded me of. It was the first game of the season for the Stags, and with over 7 new faces on the team, it was bound to be rocky. The Stags played hard but in the end, there was just too many new faces on the team to give a better product on the floor. I am looking forward to seeing how many SCIAC teams fall to this very athletic Chapman team. They had a very bad showing at the Redlands Tournament. Losing two of their best players inside to injuries didn't help them too much either.

Whitman showing attitude?  What gives!!?


Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2008, 12:18:22 AM
Reason or no reason, the coach (Bridgeland) decides stuff like that.  He might not care but it reflects poorly on his program, school and our conference.  At least with one guy (cmsstag) and for all we know that guy is and AD, school president or father of a future recruit.  I don't see how offending or being rude is ever justified, particularly as an invited guest.  Bridgland probably knows that no one will ever care what happened after the Lee Fulmer Championship if he can have a winning season in 2008-09.  True, but it doesn't change the facts.   :(



u guys better be careful with all that "bridge bashing" mtnman might throw a tantrum  ;D

that situation can be summed up by one word CLASSLESS. seriously, have some integrity. ones character is truly defined by their actions
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 14, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
In other news, Whitworth beat their alumni (102-eighty something) in an exhibition on Saturday.  After trailing at the half, the current Pirates proved to be too deep for an alumni crew that included two all-americans, the last 3 POTY in the NWC and a guy who tops the record books in just about every category involving shots from beyond the arc.  Wish I could have witnessed that one...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 14, 2008, 03:58:42 PM
The Bearcats barely squeaked by Corban on Friday night 79-76 after blowing (another) double-digit second half lead.  Corban has now played six NWC schools, going 2-4 (wins over Linfield and GFU, losses to L&C, UPS, Pacific, and Willamette).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 15, 2008, 02:15:01 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 14, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
In other news, Whitworth beat their alumni (102-eighty something) in an exhibition on Saturday.  After trailing at the half, the current Pirates proved to be too deep for an alumni crew that included two all-americans, the last 3 POTY in the NWC and a guy who tops the record books in just about every category involving shots from beyond the arc.  Wish I could have witnessed that one...

now starting:  Depew, Pecht, Symes, B Williams, J Young.  Yea, that would be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 15, 2008, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 15, 2008, 02:15:01 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 14, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
In other news, Whitworth beat their alumni (102-eighty something) in an exhibition on Saturday.  After trailing at the half, the current Pirates proved to be too deep for an alumni crew that included two all-americans, the last 3 POTY in the NWC and a guy who tops the record books in just about every category involving shots from beyond the arc.  Wish I could have witnessed that one...

now starting:  Depew, Pecht, Symes, B Williams, J Young.  Yea, that would be fun to watch.

solid line up
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 15, 2008, 12:14:48 PM
Well not much action going on these days.  UPS is still of until the 28th...hopefully they have been able to tighten some things up in practice.  Looking forward to conference play!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 15, 2008, 12:18:05 PM
Upcoming games:

No games in the NWC today.

Tomorrow:
                  Pacific @ Concordia
                  Red Deer @ Whitworth

12/20
                  Linfield @ Seattle U  (this could be an interesting game)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 15, 2008, 12:34:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 15, 2008, 12:18:05 PM
12/20  Linfield @ Seattle U  (this could be an interesting game)

Little-known, obscure, meaningless fact of the day: Last night Seattle beat Cal Poly San Luis Obispo 60-59 at SLO. It was SeattleU's first road win over a D-I team in 28 years. Before last night SeattleU's last road victory over a Division I school (as a D-I program) was against the University of San Diego in the second-to-last game of the 1979-80 season.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 15, 2008, 01:43:55 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 15, 2008, 12:34:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 15, 2008, 12:18:05 PM
12/20  Linfield @ Seattle U  (this could be an interesting game)

Little-known, obscure, meaningless fact of the day: Last night Seattle beat Cal Poly San Luis Obispo 60-59 at SLO. It was SeattleU's first road win over a D-I team in 28 years. Before last night SeattleU's last road victory over a Division I school (as a D-I program) was against the University of San Diego in the second-to-last game of the 1979-80 season.

OxyBob

I know it's not wise to get in "fact-offs" with OxyBob, but I know for a fact that Seattle U beat D-I University of Portland on the road back in 2005.

http://www.portlandpilots.com/news/2005/11/24/53754.aspx?path=mbball
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 15, 2008, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on December 15, 2008, 01:43:55 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 15, 2008, 12:34:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 15, 2008, 12:18:05 PM
12/20  Linfield @ Seattle U  (this could be an interesting game)
Little-known, obscure, meaningless fact of the day: Last night Seattle beat Cal Poly San Luis Obispo 60-59 at SLO. It was SeattleU's first road win over a D-I team in 28 years. Before last night SeattleU's last road victory over a Division I school (as a D-I program) was against the University of San Diego in the second-to-last game of the 1979-80 season.
I know it's not wise to get in "fact-offs" with OxyBob, but I know for a fact that Seattle U beat D-I University of Portland on the road back in 2005.

Correct, except SeattleU was D-II in 2005, not D-I.

Quote...SeattleU's last road victory over a Division I school (as a D-I program)...

11/24/2005:

QuoteThe Portland Pilots did everything necessary for a win offensively Wednesday night against Division-II Seattle, but the Redhawks (3-0) pulled off their second upset of a Division I program this season with an 88-85 victory over the Pilots (1-3) Wednesday night at the Chiles Center.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 15, 2008, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 15, 2008, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on December 15, 2008, 01:43:55 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 15, 2008, 12:34:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 15, 2008, 12:18:05 PM
12/20  Linfield @ Seattle U  (this could be an interesting game)
Little-known, obscure, meaningless fact of the day: Last night Seattle beat Cal Poly San Luis Obispo 60-59 at SLO. It was SeattleU's first road win over a D-I team in 28 years. Before last night SeattleU's last road victory over a Division I school (as a D-I program) was against the University of San Diego in the second-to-last game of the 1979-80 season.
I know it's not wise to get in "fact-offs" with OxyBob, but I know for a fact that Seattle U beat D-I University of Portland on the road back in 2005.

Correct, except SeattleU was D-II in 2005, not D-I.

Quote...SeattleU's last road victory over a Division I school (as a D-I program)...

11/24/2005:

QuoteThe Portland Pilots did everything necessary for a win offensively Wednesday night against Division-II Seattle, but the Redhawks (3-0) pulled off their second upset of a Division I program this season with an 88-85 victory over the Pilots (1-3) Wednesday night at the Chiles Center.

OxyBob

I figured that was what you meant.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 15, 2008, 03:26:42 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on December 15, 2008, 03:10:26 PM
I figured that was what you meant.

Quote"I am excited for Seattle University because Division II is where the university belongs, continuing our competition with traditional rival institutions. Furthermore, Seattle University stands a better chance of achieving success as a Division II athletic program than it does as a Division III program." -- Nancy Gerou, Director of Seattle University Sports, December 11, 1998

"I welcome the decision of the Board of Trustees. I am confident this decision is in the best interest of our students. I look forward to making this a successful athletic program." -- Fr. Stephen V. Sundborg, S.J., Seattle University President, December 11, 1998

Quote"I welcome this decision and see it, essentially, as the determination that the intercollegiate athletic aspect of Seattle University should be on a par and consistent with the quality of the rest of our university. The return to Division I is the best decision for Seattle University's future -- for our campus community, alumni and friends, and for our competitive edge as the leading independent university in the Northwest." Fr. Stephen V. Sundborg, S.J., Seattle University President, May 11, 2007

Hey, Father Sundborg, make up your mind already!

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 15, 2008, 06:38:59 PM
Watching Seattle University grope for a proper home for its athletics department over the last 25 or so years has been interesting.

Way back when I was at Whitworth, I remember watching the Bucs beat Seattle in an NAIA district playoff game soon after the Chieftains (that's what they were then) had left NCAA DI.

They were NAIA throughout the 80s and early 90s, then moved up to DIII to join the NWC for a couple of years in around 1996 or 1997 (around the time the NWC was also making the transition to DIII).  It seemed like Seattle U quickly found out that it needed some financial incentive to get student-athletes to come to school.  Competing against the rest of the NWC for students was a tough task.  The other NWC schools offered better academics and better location.

So Seattle left the NWC after only two years and dropped to DII.  It might've been a more natural fit anyway, considering they have a natural in-city rival (Seattle Pacific).

But President Sundborg has always been sending signals out that he'd like to see Seattle U back in the WCC, especially as Gonzaga saw its national image rise dramatically with the rise of the basketball team.

The (now) Redhawks jumped through all the hoops to move to DI, only to have the WCC reject the bid for membership (the WCC is comfortable with eight schools and doesn't want to deal with a schedule that includes nine).  So SU went ahead with the move anyway and now will try to survive as a DI independent in the shadow of UW (literally) and Gonzaga (figuratively).

I wish them luck.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 15, 2008, 09:56:52 PM
A FWIW, University of the Pacific in Stockton was also turned down by the WCC along with Seattle U. The two schools would have made the WCC a 10 school conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 15, 2008, 11:37:55 PM
My grandfather was the treasurer at the University of Portland for 24 years, I grew up as a Pilots basketball fan (a painful existence), and I still help run a Pilots message board.  The general assumption around the WCC is that they want to see that Seattle is really committed to being D-I before they take them into the conference.  Additionally, with the WCC's men's basketball profile on the rise (three teams in the NCAAs last year), nobody's willing to take the strength of schedule hit.  So, since the WCC won't let SU in (yet), Pacific got rejected to avoid a nine-team conference.

But if Seattle can demonstrate a solid commitment to D-I athletics, the WCC won't turn them down.  Getting into the Seattle TV market is a no-brainer, and both Gonzaga and UP want another Pacific Northwest school to cut travel costs.  If Seattle gets in, Pacific gets in, and I have no doubt that both schools will be in the WCC by 2012 at the latest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 16, 2008, 12:58:54 PM
Latest poll has Whitworth moving up to 18th and getting 44 more votes.  UPS frozen at 21 with same vote tally.  Another week of silence for these 2 teams.  Which NWC teams have games this week?  Linfield @ Seattle U anybody else?

Conference just around the corner.  Can't wait.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 17, 2008, 12:07:48 PM
Results from 12/16

Pacific (Ore.)  92  Concordia (Ore.)  89 

Red Deer  53  Whitworth  89 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 17, 2008, 12:10:27 PM
NWHoops,

What do you know about Red Deer, I have never heard of them before.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 17, 2008, 12:28:45 PM
Red Deer College, Alberta Colleges Athletic Conference - South Member

Their reg season breaks from 11/29 to 1/9 so this is a game to keep them from getting rusty I suppose.  Canadian = exhibition.  Glorified scrimmage with Refs.

About all I can figure out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 17, 2008, 03:08:01 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 17, 2008, 12:28:45 PM
Red Deer College, Alberta Colleges Athletic Conference - South Member

Their reg season breaks from 11/29 to 1/9 so this is a game to keep them from getting rusty I suppose.  Canadian = exhibition.  Glorified scrimmage with Refs.

About all I can figure out.

Thanks NWHoops
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 19, 2008, 05:16:55 PM
A much smaller Battle in Seattle also takes place tomorrow, with Linfield squaring off against Seattle U.  Good luck to Linfield...lets get a win over a DI.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 20, 2008, 10:54:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 19, 2008, 05:16:55 PM
A much smaller Battle in Seattle also takes place tomorrow, with Linfield squaring off against Seattle U.  Good luck to Linfield...lets get a win over a DI.

Sounds like this game got called due to the stormy weather in Seattle.  Not sure if a make up date has been set yet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 21, 2008, 01:22:41 AM
Quote from: LogShow on December 20, 2008, 10:54:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 19, 2008, 05:16:55 PM
A much smaller Battle in Seattle also takes place tomorrow, with Linfield squaring off against Seattle U.  Good luck to Linfield...lets get a win over a DI.

Sounds like this game got called due to the stormy weather in Seattle.  Not sure if a make up date has been set yet.

a couple of other games were played in seattle today, both gonzaga and uw had games that got played. maybe linfield had some issues coming up from oregon, heard the weather was causing problems down there too
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 21, 2008, 03:13:12 AM
When there's four inches of snow on the ground in Salem, there are some pretty serious weather issues.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on December 21, 2008, 06:13:06 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on December 21, 2008, 01:22:41 AM
Quote from: LogShow on December 20, 2008, 10:54:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 19, 2008, 05:16:55 PM
A much smaller Battle in Seattle also takes place tomorrow, with Linfield squaring off against Seattle U.  Good luck to Linfield...lets get a win over a DI.

Sounds like this game got called due to the stormy weather in Seattle.  Not sure if a make up date has been set yet.

a couple of other games were played in seattle today, both gonzaga and uw had games that got played. maybe linfield had some issues coming up from oregon, heard the weather was causing problems down there too

Winter weather conditions force postponement of Saturday's Linfield-Seattle University game at the Connonly Center; the game is expected to be made up during the second week of January, though the official date and time have not yet been confirmed
December 20th
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 21, 2008, 07:45:13 PM
Quote from: CalCat on December 21, 2008, 06:13:06 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on December 21, 2008, 01:22:41 AM
Quote from: LogShow on December 20, 2008, 10:54:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on December 19, 2008, 05:16:55 PM
A much smaller Battle in Seattle also takes place tomorrow, with Linfield squaring off against Seattle U.  Good luck to Linfield...lets get a win over a DI.

Sounds like this game got called due to the stormy weather in Seattle.  Not sure if a make up date has been set yet.

a couple of other games were played in seattle today, both gonzaga and uw had games that got played. maybe linfield had some issues coming up from oregon, heard the weather was causing problems down there too

Winter weather conditions force postponement of Saturday's Linfield-Seattle University game at the Connonly Center; the game is expected to be made up during the second week of January, though the official date and time have not yet been confirmed
December 20th

that would be a pretty bold move by linfield to reschedule a game that doesn't mean anything in the middle of conference play. guess we'll have to wait and see
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 24, 2008, 11:22:39 AM
Are any of you Whitworth or UPS fans going to be in SF this Sunday and Monday for the games? I will be on Sunday only.

In the meantime, from simply rainy Central CA, stay safe and warm and have a
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 25, 2008, 01:32:11 AM
cawcdad - I envy your chance to see the Pirates play an official game before most Whitworth fans.  Enjoy the basketball in Burlingame!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 26, 2008, 02:04:29 AM
QuoteI grew up as a Pilots basketball fan (a painful existence)

Maybe you can help me remember the name of the U of Portland fellow who was one of the leading scorers in the nation around 1970. That was before the 3 pointer and coaches who ok'd a shot like that. A guard. ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 26, 2008, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: cawcdad on December 24, 2008, 11:22:39 AM
Are any of you Whitworth or UPS fans going to be in SF this Sunday and Monday for the games? I will be on Sunday only.

In the meantime, from simply rainy Central CA, stay safe and warm and have a
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
Merry Christmas to all D3 fans !

Cawcdad - I will be at both games this weekend...assuming my flight will get out of Spokane Saturday morning...more snow on the way for us tonight - Woo Hoo !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 26, 2008, 11:47:05 AM
Looking forward to the Logs getting back in action after the long lay-off.  Hopefully they have been getting better.  They are heading down to the bay area for a final tune up before conference starts up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 26, 2008, 05:05:08 PM
Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!  Spokane has gotten over 4 feet of snow in the last couple of weeks (one 24 hour period saw 20 inches)...I got out just in time. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 27, 2008, 04:48:51 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 26, 2008, 02:04:29 AM
QuoteI grew up as a Pilots basketball fan (a painful existence)

Maybe you can help me remember the name of the U of Portland fellow who was one of the leading scorers in the nation around 1970. That was before the 3 pointer and coaches who ok'd a shot like that. A guard. ???

You've got to mean Jose Slaughter.  He played for UP from 1979-82 and scored almost 2000 points in his career.  He averaged over 20 a game his junior year.  I have a great picture on my wall of Jose celebrating after the Pilots beat Ralph Miller's OSU Beavers at Memorial Coliseum in 1979 - still UP's only win over a ranked team.

Those were some great years on the Bluff with Slaughter, Darwin Cook, and Rick Raivio.  Too bad it was before I was born! :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on December 27, 2008, 10:06:41 PM
D.O.C.

Are you Talking about Freeborn, I think he went to PSU?
Is that who you were thinking of?

Happy New Year!
GO WILDCATS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 28, 2008, 06:56:22 PM
UPS is already in action against Gustavus Adolphus.  UPS is up at the half...Foster has 17.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 28, 2008, 06:56:57 PM
Good Luck in the second half Logs!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 28, 2008, 09:36:23 PM
Whitworth and UPS roll in Cali (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/08_09/Ameriprise1.htm)
Props to Flegel for getting this posted quickly (and including a little wrap-up for both games), the best SID in the NWC IMO  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 28, 2008, 10:54:09 PM
good wins for both the loggers and the pirates. one more chance to get everything squared away for conference tomorrow. good luck guys
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 28, 2008, 11:27:52 PM
Good win Logs!  Get one more and head in to conference on a high note.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 28, 2008, 11:54:39 PM
I went to the games. Pictures should be up in a little while, I'll post when they are.

The Rats started slow and looked rusty. Coach told me they hadn't played for nine days. It seemed neither team scored for the first several minutes. The Rats woke up, shook loose the cobwebs and had an excellent second half. By the end they were working the shot clock with crisp passing and shooting with a few seconds left and nailing them. They started hitting the offensive boards better in the second half too.

The Loggers came out firing on all cylinders looking much better than when I saw them in Turlock against Cal Maritime. UPS employed a smothering press from the get go and the Gusties just couldn't handle it. After a timeout, GA started doing a better job breaking the press, but not before precious seconds had ticked off the clock and Loggers hustled back on D. The Loggers weave against man defense was pretty to see. When GA went to a zone the Loggers moved the ball with crisp passes around the perimeter, started to pentrate, collapsing the zone and then kicking the ball back out for short jumpers. Beautiful.

I sure wish I could see Whitowrth - UPS later this year. Make sure you guys get to these games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 29, 2008, 02:39:44 AM
Quote from: Tuxguy on December 27, 2008, 10:06:41 PM
D.O.C.

Are you are Talking about Freeborn, I think he went to PSU?
Is that who you were thinking of?

Happy New Year!
GO WILDCATS

Good call on that, Tux.  He probably does mean Freeborn, who went to PSU.

Heading down to Salem tomorrow to watch the Bearcats take on Southern Oregon.  It'll be my first game this year - should be fun!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on December 29, 2008, 03:08:58 PM
The Pios beat Christopher Newport University out of Virginia 85-79 in their first game of the Cactus Jam Tournament in Phoenix. The Chris Newport website cites the game as an early blowout http://www.cnusports.com/News/mbball/2008/12/27/mb122708.asp

While the LC site says the game was knotted at 30 at the half. Quite odd. The Chris Newport site includes a play by play in the boxscore which shows the Pios leading 36-9 early on. I don't see how they could make up a play by play so I am gonna trust their write-up that shows the Pios up a ton early and slowly letting Chris Newport back in the game late. But the Pios came away with the win to improve to 5-2. They take on Old Westbury today at 4pm.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on December 29, 2008, 07:00:32 PM
BearcatPress,

Enjoy the game, now that old man winter has left for awhile maybe we can get back to our normal activities.   ;D     I'm sure there are a lot of games that couldn't be played and wont be made up.

GO WILDCATS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on December 29, 2008, 08:52:01 PM
Just checked the UPS website...Loggers walked all over Simpson 118-88.  Sounds like the game was a breeze for the Logs, who scored 73 points in the 1st half.  And appearently the starters hardly played in the second...so hopefully some of the reserves got some good mins.

Things get considerably tougher next week as conference starts and UPS opens up against LC.  I think that is going to be a great game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 29, 2008, 08:54:26 PM
Yep, WW and UPS both handle their opponents.  UPS just went nuts apparently after being down 14-7 or something like that.  73 in a half is mind bottling!  posted by Ricky Bobby.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 29, 2008, 11:29:09 PM
The pictures from yesterday's games are posted:
Whitworth vs. Simpson (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=2417)
Puget Sound vs. Gustavus Adolphus (http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=2418)

Didn't make it to today's games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 30, 2008, 02:13:56 AM
Obviously not sure gents, but would that be a Freeborn from Dayton? Whose brother, Randy, played at LINFIELD?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 30, 2008, 03:56:57 AM
Eyewitness report from Thousand Oaks:

Buena Vista 108, Pacific Lutheran 100 OT

BVU: Matt Cleveland 29 pts, 12 rebs, Andre Wagner 21, Jeff Janssen 15
PLU: Kyle MacTaggart 24, Josh Dressler 21, Curtis Trondsen 20, James Conti 10

Halftime: PLU 42-40
Regulation: 84-84
Rebounds: BVU 55-38
Records: Buena Vista 9-1, Pacific Lutheran 5-3

Pacific Lutheran had a 7-point lead with 47 seconds to go in regulation, but a costly turnover and 2 missed FTs on 1-and-1s cost PLU a victory. Watching the teams warm up it looked like it would be a mismatch as Buena Vista towered over the much smaller Lutes, but PLU played a very aggressive man-to-man, overplaying and double teaming the ball à la Puget Sound, and refused to give in to Buena Vista, which outrebounded PLU 55-38..

In the first half, BVU had a 33-28 lead at 5:00, but PLU went on a 12-2 run to lead 40-35. Buena Vista tied it a 40, but Curtis Trondsen's jumper gave the Lutes a 42-40 halftime lead. In the second half, PLU was up 47-42, but BVU went on a 15-2 run and led 57-49 at 13:50, stretched the lead to 64-53 at 11:10, and looked to be in control. Back came Pacific Lutheran with a 17-3 run of its own, and the Lutes led 70-67 with just under 7 minutes to go. After BVU took a 77-76 lead, PLU made 8 straight and led 84-77 with 47 seconds to go. Matt Cleveland made a 3-ball to cut the lead to 84-80. After BVU took a TO, PLU tried to inbound the ball, but Kyle MacTaggart threw it straight out of bounds so no time ran off the clock. Cleveland got fouled and made 2 FTs to cut the lead to 84-82 with 35 seconds left. PLU's James Conti was fouled with 26 seconds left, but he missed on the 1-and-1, and Andre Wagner scored on a layup to tie the game at 84. After a timeout, PLU's Gabe Smith was fouled on the baseline by Jon Millea with 3.8 seconds left, but, like Conti, Smith missed on the 1-and-1. After a TO by BVU, Wagner took a half court runner which banked off the backboard and hit the rim but missed, and the game went to OT. Buena Vista exerted its muscle in OT, outscored PLU 14-3, and led 98-87 with 1:30 to go. The Lutes did not go quietly, however, and cut the lead to 102-98 before Wagner sealed the win with 4 straight FTs. Great college basketball game.

For Buena Vista, Matt Cleveland was awesome with 29 points, including 11-for-16 FGs and 3-for-3 on 3s, and 4-for-4 FTs, and he also had 12 rebounds. Andre Wagner was only 6-for-20 shooting and 1-for-6 on 3s, but he had 8 assists and 5 rebounds and was a very clutch 8-for-8 from the line. Freshman guard Jeff Janssen took advantage of PLU's overplaying defense, got open repeatedly, and scored 15 points on 5-for-6 on 3-balls. For PLU, Kyle MacTaggart had 24 on 8-for-13 (6-for-9 3s). Buena Vista shot 16-for-17 FTs, and Pacific Lutheran was 10-for-12, though the 2 misses at the end of regulation were killers.

Tuesday night Pacific Lutheran plays Luther at 6:00 p.m. at Cal Lutheran.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 30, 2008, 08:42:16 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 30, 2008, 03:56:57 AM
Eyewitness report from Thousand Oaks:

Pacific Lutheran had a 7-point lead with 47 seconds to go in regulation, but a costly turnover and 2 missed FTs on 1-and-1s cost PLU a victory. Watching the teams warm up it looked like it would be a mismatch as Buena Vista towered over the much smaller Lutes, but PLU played a very aggressive man-to-man, overplaying and double teaming the ball à la Puget Sound, and refused to give in to Buena Vista, which outrebounded PLU 55-38..
OxyBob
Thanks Bob.  Too bad the Lutes couldn't have held on to win.  This would have been a major victory for the NWC.  7 points with :47 to go!! So close.  PLU can certainly put up some points.  PLU should be a fun team to watch play this season in conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on December 31, 2008, 05:05:38 PM
D.O.C.,

No relation to the Freeborns of Dayton.

The kid from PSU as you said led the Nation in Scoring.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 31, 2008, 05:32:46 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 30, 2008, 08:42:16 PM
Too bad the Lutes couldn't have held on to win.  This would have been a major victory for the NWC.  7 points with :47 to go!! So close.  PLU can certainly put up some points.  PLU should be a fun team to watch play this season in conference.

Last night I spoke with some of the PLU players after their game with Luther, and they were disappointed but made no excuses that they didn't get the win against Buena Vista.

PLU's aggressive style was effective against Buena Vista. The only criticism I'd offer is that the Lutes continued to allow BVU's freshman guard Jeff Jansen to get wide open and catch and shoot when it was obvious that he could make open jumpers.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 31, 2008, 09:40:07 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 31, 2008, 05:32:46 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 30, 2008, 08:42:16 PM
Too bad the Lutes couldn't have held on to win.  This would have been a major victory for the NWC.  7 points with :47 to go!! So close.  PLU can certainly put up some points.  PLU should be a fun team to watch play this season in conference.

Last night I spoke with some of the PLU players after their game with Luther, and they were disappointed but made no excuses that they didn't get the win against Buena Vista.

PLU's aggressive style was effective against Buena Vista. The only criticism I'd offer is that the Lutes continued to allow BVU's freshman guard Jeff Jansen to get wide open and catch and shoot when it was obvious that he could make open jumpers.

OxyBob
Well that kind of sounds like PLU to me.  Rarely is it that they have all 5 guys playing at a high level at any one stretch of time.  Find the weak link and you should be able to score without difficulty.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 01, 2009, 02:18:23 AM
Disappointed in the entire LINFIELD program, again, in the fact that no attempt was made to alert alumni that the team was in SoCal over vacation. Got the requests for more money though.

                                       HAPPY NEW YEAR
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 01, 2009, 05:50:37 PM
According to the news last night, Spokane had 61 inches of snow during December - the snowiest month in city history.

Let me be the first to welcome G. Fox and Pacific to North Pole U - Spokane Campus for this weekend's NWC openers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 01, 2009, 06:22:25 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 01, 2009, 05:50:37 PM
According to the news last night, Spokane had 61 inches of snow during December - the snowiest month in city history.

Let me be the first to welcome G. Fox and Pacific to North Pole U - Spokane Campus for this weekend's NWC openers!
Just got new tires...Can't wait to get there.  Driving to Spokane Friday for both.  Conference is here...finally!  Happy New Year to all who love D3 hoops.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 01, 2009, 08:22:58 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 01, 2009, 06:22:25 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 01, 2009, 05:50:37 PM
According to the news last night, Spokane had 61 inches of snow during December - the snowiest month in city history.

Let me be the first to welcome G. Fox and Pacific to North Pole U - Spokane Campus for this weekend's NWC openers!
Just got new tires...Can't wait to get there.  Driving to Spokane Friday for both.  Conference is here...finally!  Happy New Year to all who love D3 hoops.

I hear ya!  I am looking forward to checking out UPS-LC tomorrow night in Tacoma.  Should be interesting to see how LC looks.

NWHoops, I-90 is closed for avalanche control...you might have to break out the sled and dogs to get over there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on January 01, 2009, 09:22:39 PM
Just a reminder that if you can't make it to Logger Land for home games this year, you can listen to all the games on the Logger Radio Network!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/puget-sound-logger-athletics

Go Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on January 02, 2009, 12:13:23 AM
D.O.C.


Mo Money, Mo Money.
It could be worse, you could live in town and get hit up more!
Alumni, Partners in progress, this and that! But we do it because
we love Linfield, and want to see great things from Catville.

It is to bad you didn't know about the games, any support I'm sure would be appreciated.


HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!       
54 in 2009!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: coachferrier on January 02, 2009, 02:07:03 AM
Freeman Williams?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Williams

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willifr01.html


played at Portland State. My dad and his brothers RAVE about this dude.

just my contributions......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on January 02, 2009, 04:34:17 AM
Thanks coachferrier,

Thats him, at least thats who I was thinking of!!!
Freeman Williams, he was a stud on the court and scored at will it seemed.
Was always in the Oregonian! Must have been in the upper 30's in scoring. Did he play in the 70's or 80's?

From Freeman Williams to Coach Jerry Glanville.............I'll wait to hear the comments on this one!

As always, things said by Tuxguy are not bonded and or my be arranged to fit Tuxguys beliefs. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 02, 2009, 04:38:26 PM
Conference starts tonight!!   8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 02, 2009, 04:46:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 02, 2009, 04:38:26 PM
Conference starts tonight!!   8)
Lewis & Clark      @ Pacific Lutheran           Toss up
Linfield              @ Puget Sound                UPS should win
George Fox         @ Whitman                    Whitman should win
Pacific (Ore.)      @ Whitworth                  Whitworth should win

Anybody feel differently?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 02, 2009, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 02, 2009, 04:46:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 02, 2009, 04:38:26 PM
Conference starts tonight!!   8)
Lewis & Clark      @ Pacific Lutheran           Toss up
Linfield              @ Puget Sound                UPS should win
George Fox         @ Whitman                    Whitman should win
Pacific (Ore.)      @ Whitworth                  Whitworth should win

Anybody feel differently?


Tonight's matchups (per the NWC website):

Lewis and Clark @ UPS
George Fox @ Whitworth
Pacific @ Whitman
Willamette @ PLU
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 02, 2009, 06:58:16 PM
nwhoops,
you caught tomorrow night's schedule.

UPS beats L&C by 16
Willamette gets by PLU by 3 (only road winner)
Whitman edges Pacific by 2
Whitworth beats Fox by 17

One fan's humble opinion for tonight's games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 02, 2009, 08:48:34 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 02, 2009, 06:58:16 PM
nwhoops,
you caught tomorrow night's schedule.

UPS beats L&C by 16
Willamette gets by PLU by 3 (only road winner)
Whitman edges Pacific by 2
Whitworth beats Fox by 17

One fan's humble opinion for tonight's games.

I will be quite happy if the loggers can get a 16 point win tonight, from what i've heard LC is pretty darn good. But i like where your heads at, very confident in my loggers  8).

I wonder what PLU will have after their last minute collapse against Buena Vista. Also interested to see what Whitman and Pacific bring to the table. I don't think much will be learned from the WW vs Fox game besides the obvious which is WW=tough, Fox=not so much (unless their shooters can get it going)

It starts tonight! Lets get it on!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 02, 2009, 10:12:23 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 02, 2009, 04:46:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 02, 2009, 04:38:26 PM
Conference starts tonight!!   8)
Lewis & Clark      @ Pacific Lutheran           Toss up
Linfield              @ Puget Sound                UPS should win
George Fox         @ Whitman                    Whitman should win
Pacific (Ore.)      @ Whitworth                  Whitworth should win

Anybody feel differently?

Sorry everyone. Just can't copy paste like I used to.  Tonight's games!!

Lewis and Clark @ UPS                             HUGE GAME UPS SHOULD WIN BUT DOESN'T!!  LC BY 7
George Fox @ Whitworth                          MY PIRATES ROLL 81-57
Pacific @ Whitman                                     PACIFIC GETS US WONDERING WITH A 10POINT WIN
Willamette @ PLU                                      PLU BEATS WILLAMETTE 110-105

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 02, 2009, 11:36:15 PM
WW playing big.  Montgomery 19, Jurich 13 with 9 boards in the first half up by 21, 49-28.
In other matters, live audio is a feedback fest.  Someone please fix this so I can here Castles' great play by play.

UPS 34-28 up at half over LC.

Willamette up 42-26, halftime.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 03, 2009, 12:50:07 AM
Bearcats win their fifth in a row, beating PLU 88-70.  The Lutes never got closer than seven points in the second half.  Cameron Mitchell with 25 points and 11 rebounds to lead the Bearcats, Dressler with 26 and 9 for PLU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 03, 2009, 01:15:36 AM
LC got destroyed! What happened!? Looks like last year when Papenfuss was the leading scorer through non-conference play then the Pios fell back into shooting threes...and missing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 03, 2009, 01:25:02 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 03, 2009, 01:15:36 AM
LC got destroyed! What happened!? Looks like last year when Papenfuss was the leading scorer through non-conference play then the Pios fell back into shooting threes...and missing.
Yea they did!  As did G Fox by my Pirates 94-60.  Calvin Jurich gets the first triple double I can remember from a WW player and does it in conference opener.  WW rests top 8 players last 10 minutes.

Who won in Walla Walla?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 03, 2009, 03:37:46 AM
decisive wins by both WW and UPS tonight. Interesting to see how things play out over the next couple of weeks. Might set up quite a showdown in a couple weeks. But lets not think too far ahead. gotta take em one at a time. good win tonight loggers
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 03, 2009, 10:51:33 AM
Whitman won easily. I watched the second half on streaming video, pretty cool. Neither team impressed, but Whitman is improved over the game I saw last year. I still wish I could see the UPS-WW games when they get played.

Have a Happy New year and fun NWC Season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 03, 2009, 02:51:00 PM
I agree, I watched it too, the first half was a good one, but the second half was lackluster, especially as a Pacific fan, cool stream they had.

What in the world happenned to Bartlett?!?!  Not the first one who went down, know about his ACL, but the second one - Ross Bartlett.  Pacific's website says he is injured but didn't have the extent or discription.  That's horrible, and bad luck for those brothers, they were playing so well to start the season.

No close games at all last night, interesting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2009, 02:57:57 PM
congrats to the loggers on a big win against LC.  I thought the game was going to be much closer...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 03, 2009, 07:22:29 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 03, 2009, 02:57:57 PM
congrats to the loggers on a big win against LC.  I thought the game was going to be much closer...
Me too!!  Of course it is only one game, but maybe UPS, WIL, and WW showed the conference what its going to take to compete.  Whitman...can't go there yet but congrats to them on winning their home conference opener.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2009, 08:48:07 PM
I am not too surprised that Whitman won its first home game.  I can see Whitman winning all of their home games, but really struggling on the road. 

What I am surprised about is that they forced Pacific into 27 TOs.  Lowery and Pac have always done a good job of really slowing down the pace against UPS, and usually plays them pretty tough.  I would have thought they would have done the same thing against Whitman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 03, 2009, 11:03:43 PM
LC @ PLU about to tip off...here is the link if you want to listen live: http://www.klay1180.com/live_radio.htm
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2009, 11:45:59 PM
UPS is up big at the half...43-21 over Linfield
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 03, 2009, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 03, 2009, 11:45:59 PM
UPS is up big at the half...43-21 over Linfield

Forgot to mention that UPS sank 7 3's in the first half...way to shoot it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 04, 2009, 12:08:19 AM
Logs are rolling, 59-37 about mid-way through the second half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 04, 2009, 12:33:00 AM
LC up 10 over PLU with 5 minutes left in the second half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 04, 2009, 12:45:04 AM
Sounds like the Pios will cement this one with free throw shooting. Kollasch hits some big free throws down the stretch to hold off the Lutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 04, 2009, 12:48:14 AM
Looks like a comeback is brewing in Walla Walla, last year in the same gym GFU came back and sent it into double overtime
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 04, 2009, 12:52:31 AM
WW close out Pacific, 82-51.  Totally dominate over last 10 minutes.  Real balanced scoring.

We got that in game update section for score updates.  I just remembered about it...just an fyi.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 04, 2009, 02:36:05 PM
Congrats on the win Logs...2-0 great start!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 04, 2009, 05:08:04 PM
Impressions from the first week:

1. Whitworth and UPS will both be dominant at home this season.
2. Whitman has started 2-0 in the NWC for the first time since.... who knows when?  I agree with Logshow, Whitman will be really tough at home and it only makes the E-WA swing for the rest of the NWC that much tougher.
3.  PLU may not recover this season from choking away a chance to beat Buena Vista.
4. Willamette has gotten it together after a rough start and should be a factor at the top of the standings.  The Bearcats got a key road win.
5. L&C is still dangerous, but I don't know if the Pioneers will play consistently enough to make the top four.

Of course, according to bbaddict, Whitworth will be puking all over itself with fear this week because the Pirates have to play at Willamette on Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 05, 2009, 10:47:36 PM
Latest poll is up!  After strong weekends, UPS and Withworth both jump 4 spots to #17 and #15 respectively.  NIce work!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 05, 2009, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 05, 2009, 10:47:36 PM
Latest poll is up!  After strong weekends, UPS and Withworth both jump 4 spots to #17 and #15 respectively.  NIce work!

Not to get too far ahead, but if both UPS and WW take care of business next weekend (and this Tuesday for UPS) it will set up a huge matchup over in Spokane the following week.

Of course WW has to take on Willamette first...right bballaddict?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 06, 2009, 04:23:49 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 05, 2009, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 05, 2009, 10:47:36 PM
Latest poll is up!  After strong weekends, UPS and Withworth both jump 4 spots to #17 and #15 respectively.  NIce work!

Not to get too far ahead, but if both UPS and WW take care of business next weekend (and this Tuesday for UPS) it will set up a huge matchup over in Spokane the following week.

Of course WW has to take on Willamette first...right bballaddict?

Speaking on behalf of my friend bbaddict, I'll submit that Willamette has to take care of Linfield first.  We always seem to have trouble winning in McMinnville.

I'm already kicking myself that I'm going to have to miss the Whitworth game.  It'd sure be nice if we could play the Pirates when our students were back.  Cone Fieldhouse was dead with a capital "D" for the Southern Oregon game last week.
Title: L&C/Puget Sound game
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 06, 2009, 02:27:07 PM
I am interested in any LC takes on the loss in Tacoma.   It looked to me like the Pios were a little slow (granted, with Hayman and Williams the Loggers are crazy quick in the backcourt) and alot flummoxed.  Papenfuss had maybe three shots for the game...what's the view from Portland?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 10:10:15 PM
Loggers/Lutes at 8pm tonight in Parkland...Good luck Logs!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Looks like Dressler didn't start for PLU
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 06, 2009, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Looks like Dressler didn't start for PLU
Didn't Dressler miss sat's game?  What's up there?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:50:37 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 06, 2009, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Looks like Dressler didn't start for PLU
Didn't Dressler miss sat's game?  What's up there?

I don't know...but they aren't missing him!  This freshman, Stackhouse, is killing the Loggers.  He has 17 in the first half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 06, 2009, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Looks like Dressler didn't start for PLU
Didn't Dressler miss sat's game?  What's up there?

Listening to the game online...the PLU announcer said that Dressler is sidelined with academic problems...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 06, 2009, 11:56:53 PM
Willamette leads Linfield 27-25 at halftime.  It sounds like Linfield's getting quite a few easy buckets in transition and are pretty much taking Cam Mitchell out of the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2009, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:50:37 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 06, 2009, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Looks like Dressler didn't start for PLU
Didn't Dressler miss sat's game?  What's up there?

I don't know...but they aren't missing him!  This freshman, Stackhouse, is killing the Loggers.  He has 17 in the first half.
I see that.  Kid must have some game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 07, 2009, 12:05:58 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2009, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:50:37 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 06, 2009, 11:45:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 06, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
Looks like Dressler didn't start for PLU
Didn't Dressler miss sat's game?  What's up there?

I don't know...but they aren't missing him!  This freshman, Stackhouse, is killing the Loggers.  He has 17 in the first half.
I see that.  Kid must have some game.

Scott McDaniels 2.0
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2009, 12:13:08 AM
No way.  He is a wing  6'3".  Try again.  McDaniels was a load.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 07, 2009, 12:23:17 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2009, 12:13:08 AM
No way.  He is a wing  6'3".  Try again.  McDaniels was a load.

Made in reference to how McDaniels used to light up the loggers too
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 07, 2009, 12:45:21 AM
Great second half effort by the Loggers to run by PLU 60-77 in Parkland.  Only surrendering 60 the Logs seem to be much improved on defense this year.  However, I was not impressed by the 21 turnovers or the 8-17 preformance at the free throw line.

Still I will take 3-0 to start out NWC play any day.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2009, 01:20:17 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 07, 2009, 12:23:17 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2009, 12:13:08 AM
No way.  He is a wing  6'3".  Try again.  McDaniels was a load.

Made in reference to how McDaniels used to light up the loggers too
Gotcha. ;)  I didn't realize he was a log buster. 

Nice win to move to top of standings :P, Willamette played well also in their win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 07, 2009, 02:17:24 AM
Check out his lines on these two old box scores...

http://www2.ups.edu/athletics/mbasketball/0708/ups0108.htm

http://www2.ups.edu/athletics/mbasketball/0607/ups0130.htm

Those are big games.

We are top of the conference right now (thanks to the extra game  :) )

I think that was the Loggers 11th straight win over PLU
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 07, 2009, 02:18:13 AM
logger dominance of plu continues. (thats at least 11 straight wins, might even be more than that) good win for the loggers! plu always seems to be a tough game for ups and were once again in the 1st half at least. loggers musta made some sort of changes in the 2nd half to put the lutes away. i wasnt at the game, but they musta turned up the d only giving up 19 second half points. shoot they used to give that many points in a 5 minute ot period :)  If the loggers finally got defense figured out they are gonna be tough, in my opinion that was what killed us the past couple of years we just always tried to outscore teams instead of digging in on d.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 07, 2009, 02:21:43 AM
ha logshow u beat me too the 11 straight stat. on anohter not 8-17 on fts, seriously that is just ridiculous

congrats to willamette on the win tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 07, 2009, 12:40:55 PM
Anyone know why Dressler didn't play for PLU last night?

0-3 NWC start at home = season pretty much over for the Lutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 07, 2009, 06:28:22 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 07, 2009, 12:40:55 PM
Anyone know why Dressler didn't play for PLU last night?

0-3 NWC start at home = season pretty much over for the Lutes.

what i heard about the dressler situation is that he didn't have enough credits during the semester or something so plu is going to have to forfeit some wins from earlier in the season. lucky for him they have a J-term and from what I heard he will be eligible after that. None of this info is confirmed, just what i had heard from one of the ups players
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 08, 2009, 12:09:42 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 07, 2009, 02:18:13 AM
If the loggers finally got defense figured out they are gonna be tough, in my opinion that was what killed us the past couple of years we just always tried to outscore teams instead of digging in on d.
I agree.  UPS + D = tough.  D wins the tough games, NEARLY everytime, unless you are playing Kent Raymond.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2009, 12:19:17 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 08, 2009, 12:09:42 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 07, 2009, 02:18:13 AM
If the loggers finally got defense figured out they are gonna be tough, in my opinion that was what killed us the past couple of years we just always tried to outscore teams instead of digging in on d.
I agree.  UPS + D = tough.  D wins the tough games, NEARLY everytime, unless you are playing Kent Raymond.

Good to see Raymond getting his due even in far-flung locales.  My Titans had FIVE players with 11+ points; Wheaton's 3rd leading scorer had 8.  Didn't matter - Kent was enough.

Unless he gets hurt or someone really catches fire, I think Kent Raymond is already a shoe-in for National POY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 08, 2009, 12:41:33 AM
Shock - if that is true, it makes things even bleaker for the Lutes.

Ypsi - Whitworth fans are very aware of the abilities of Mr. Raymond.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2009, 01:22:30 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 08, 2009, 12:41:33 AM
Ypsi - Whitworth fans are very aware of the abilities of Mr. Raymond.

Imagine playing him three times a year. :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 08, 2009, 10:41:21 AM
Long time reader, first time poster!  I just feel it is time to jump in!

I live in OR, so my interest lies mostly with the OR teams, but I am a big fan of the NWC.

Shock:  Don't count the Lutes out quite yet.  They have played some of the top teams in the conference, and have lost all three, but have been in all of them.  Even without Dressler (I heard a five game suspension), they have played very well.  They will be a force once he gets back.

Pugetsoundfan:  One reason the Pios might have been flat for the UPS game was the schedule.  According to the league site, they played three game in AZ over four days, probably got back on the 31st, and then made the trip up to Tacoma.  That's like 6 games in 13 days including PLU.  That's a lot during the holiday break with the weather conditions.  But UPS is a very good team, and can make anyone look sluggish.

Keep up the posts from OR.  Too many WA posters, we need to keep up! :)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 08, 2009, 10:12:41 PM
Welcome to the board.  Sounds like you know something about Dressler that we don't.  If it was academics from last semester then he would not be eligible after only 5 games (if the 5 game suspension is true), unless PLU has a higher academic standard than the NCAA and it is a school policy that he violated (Whitworth has tougher requirements than NCAA so I would buy that other NWC institutions do as well).  No + karma for you though since you are from oregon  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 09, 2009, 03:47:50 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 08, 2009, 10:41:21 AM
Shock:  Don't count the Lutes out quite yet.  They have played some of the top teams in the conference, and have lost all three, but have been in all of them.  Even without Dressler (I heard a five game suspension), they have played very well.  They will be a force once he gets back.

Tryme: First off welcome to the board...I am certainly not counting out the lutes, but a 0-3 start in the NWC (all home games) is one heck of a hole to climb out of, im not saying they wont beat some teams, but their playoff hopes are sinking fast!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 09, 2009, 06:07:43 AM
Rat:

Shoot!  And I was hoping for a positive karma on my first outing.

Shock:

Yeah, as the old saying goes " You have to sweep at home and split on the road".  But I see PLU challenging for a playoff spot.

Quite a battle in McMinnville!  I read the play-by-play, and neither team led by more than 5 all night with 11 ties.  16-15 with 5 minutes to go in the first half, ridiculous!  Sounds like a defensive battle!  Two more teams to watch out for.  These teams can play with anyone, better than their overall records indicate.  They will upset some teams this year.  Watch out WA teams!

Predictions:

Friday
LC beats GF by 16
Linfield takes down Whitman by 5
Willamette upsets Whitworth by 5
(Gotta go with the OR teams althouth not very confident).

Saturday
Whitworth wins big at Linfield by 20
Willamette beats Whitman by 8
LC beats Pac by 8
UPS beats GF big by 28
(WW and UPS just too good to go against them)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2009, 04:11:06 PM
Was going to go +K this go around for a thoughtful post, but picking Willamette over Whitworth deserves -K.  Willamette's Mitchell has averaged 20 and 10 against less than stellar competition.  Don't expect him to get the points or boards he normally gets when he has to face the best frontcourt in the conference.  Linfield is going to have the same problem with Montgomery and Jurich, normally productive Wildcat big men will struggle...making nakamura, riley, gregg, sellereit, gebbers, etc. (this list doesn't really stop) that much more dangerous from outside.  Whitworth in a close one at Willamette 81-72 (hey, nine points is a lot closer than 30) and 76-61 at Linfield.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 09, 2009, 07:53:23 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2009, 04:11:06 PM
...Willamette's Mitchell has averaged 20 and 10 against less than stellar competition.  Don't expect him to get the points or boards he normally gets when he has to face the best frontcourt in the conference.  Linfield is going to have the same problem with Montgomery and Jurich, normally productive Wildcat big men will struggle...making nakamura, riley, gregg, sellereit, gebbers, etc. (this list doesn't really stop) that much more dangerous from outside. 

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right.  Linfield's big men held Mitchell in check (8 points) and WW's bigs are probably (haven't seen them play) much better.  The Linfield game should provide interesting results, and maybe the upset is there instead of Salem.  I'll be at the WW-Linfield game, so we shall see.

A sweep by WW would be huge.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 10, 2009, 01:14:57 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2009, 04:11:06 PM
...Willamette's Mitchell has averaged 20 and 10 against less than stellar competition.  Don't expect him to get the points or boards he normally gets when he has to face the best frontcourt in the conference.  Linfield is going to have the same problem with Montgomery and Jurich, normally productive Wildcat big men will struggle...making nakamura, riley, gregg, sellereit, gebbers, etc. (this list doesn't really stop) that much more dangerous from outside. 

WW does hold Mitchell back.  He gets 9 points on only 3-5 fg attempts.  Despite the attempt to choke (4 missed free throws in final :48), WW gets a road win by 1 point, 69-68.   WW showed something tonight with some amazing play in the final 7 minutes of the first half.  Down 12 at 6:48 to take a 1 point lead at half.  WU could not stop Pirates during that run.  This team showed a determination that was end of year/playoff-esque.  Now if I could just forget about the missed free throws....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 10, 2009, 03:33:06 AM
Good win for the Pios tonight. Shot the lights out (over 60%) in the second half from all over the floor. Also shot a ton of free throws, which is always a good sign for an LC team as we know how fond they are of perimeter. Sounds like Willamette almost upset Whitworth. You never know in the NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wucatwu on January 10, 2009, 03:54:08 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 10, 2009, 01:14:57 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2009, 04:11:06 PM
...Willamette's Mitchell has averaged 20 and 10 against less than stellar competition.  Don't expect him to get the points or boards he normally gets when he has to face the best frontcourt in the conference.  Linfield is going to have the same problem with Montgomery and Jurich, normally productive Wildcat big men will struggle...making nakamura, riley, gregg, sellereit, gebbers, etc. (this list doesn't really stop) that much more dangerous from outside. 

WW does hold Mitchell back.  He gets 9 points on only 3-5 fg attempts.  Despite the attempt to choke (4 missed free throws in final :48), WW gets a road win by 1 point, 69-68.   WW showed something tonight with some amazing play in the final 7 minutes of the first half.  Down 12 at 6:48 to take a 1 point lead at half.  WU could not stop Pirates during that run.  This team showed a determination that was end of year/playoff-esque.  Now if I could just forget about the missed free throws....

I'm not so sure how much of that was WW's doing.  Mitchell was the unfortunate recipient of some questionable foul calls last night that kept him out of much of the game...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 10, 2009, 04:08:36 PM
Quote from: wucatwu on January 10, 2009, 03:54:08 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 10, 2009, 01:14:57 AM
WW does hold Mitchell back.  He gets 9 points on only 3-5 fg attempts.  Despite the attempt to choke (4 missed free throws in final :48), WW gets a road win by 1 point, 69-68.   WW showed something tonight with some amazing play in the final 7 minutes of the first half.  Down 12 at 6:48 to take a 1 point lead at half.  WU could not stop Pirates during that run.  This team showed a determination that was end of year/playoff-esque.  Now if I could just forget about the missed free throws....

I'm not so sure how much of that was WW's doing.  Mitchell was the unfortunate recipient of some questionable foul calls last night that kept him out of much of the game...
Poor guy, can't get calls at home.  16 total minutes does kinda suck .  After 2 early fouls he sat the last 16:20 of the half.  Fouled out with 3 to go.  Breaks my heart. :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 11, 2009, 03:44:17 AM
Another solid win for the Pios tonight...and another solid shooting performance. Whitworth "upset" by Linfield...as we all know anything can happen in conference!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 11, 2009, 04:37:24 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 11, 2009, 03:44:17 AM
Another solid win for the Pios tonight...and another solid shooting performance. Whitworth "upset" by Linfield...as we all know anything can happen in conference!
Yea well ain't that the truth.  With 8 road games, I think if you finish better than 12-4 in conference, you win it this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 11, 2009, 04:49:04 PM
NWC standings after 2 weeks of conference play:

Puget Sound            4-0
Whitworth                3-1
Lewis & Clark           3-1
Willamette               3-1
Whitman                  2-2
Linfield                     2-2
PLU                          0-3
Pacific                       0-3
George Fox              0-4
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 12, 2009, 11:05:57 PM
The Lin-Wil trip for Whitworth has been tough for the last couple of years (Lin got them last year too), and it sounds like a bounce the other way could have meant a sweep.  Congrats to Linfield for beating a top 20 team!  Did someone call an OR upset last weekend, I can't remember.  ;)

This puts UPS is the early drivers seat although that would switch if WW gets them Friday night.  That should be a great NWC game!  Almost worth the drive over, well, no.  Looking for league parity, I would have to go with WW on that one. 

I mostly agree with Hoops, but I think the league champion will have 2 or 3 loses instead of 4.  But 4 would not suprise.

Several other good and important games this weekend.  Time for PLU to step up.  I don't think Dressler will be back for these games, and going into the WW hut will be very tough with or without him. 

The Pios have two tough ones, at Linfield and home against Willamette.  They seem to be playing better since the trip to Tacoma, and they will need to to get by Wil and Lin. 

Finally, how about Faidley last weekend!  42 and 30.  Not bad.  POY?  I am glad Bridgeland doesn't have him for 3 more years.

Good luck to all of the teams! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 13, 2009, 01:40:15 AM
You called the wrong upset.  If we were running a pick'em you would have been 0-2 on Whit games.  Whitworth always seems to lose at least 1 game in the state of Oregon every year.  Add to that a split with UPS (with each generally winning at home) and they are still sitting 1st or 2nd in conference.  While Whitworth would much rather play UPS at home come tourney time, it won't be the end of the world if they don't.  And, while money has always been the deciding factor come West coast tourney entries, this season has shown a lot of love for the NWC in the d3 poll.  This could be the year two teams from our conference get in.  Although they would likely be matched up in the first round or separated by a game with one getting a home game and the other on the road (w/ WIAC and SCIAC opponents I would guess).  Anyways, lot of ball to be played...looking forward to the showdown in Spokane friday night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 13, 2009, 11:25:44 AM
Yeah, Rat, you right.  I did mention that I might have the upset in McM instead of Salem, but that is not calling it.  And that could be the last loss in OR.  They only team left to stop the WW machine is the Pios, and they would have to play a perfect game to do that.

Two teams in the tournament would be great, but history is working against us and they would probably be matched up against each other.  That would be a shame, because the NWC is a very good conference, and has been for the last several years.  But as sages would say, you have to earn respect.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 13, 2009, 11:29:59 AM
can anybody give me a recap on the WW-Lin game? Did WW not shoot the ball well or what was the deal? It looked like Linfields bigs had decent games...winning down at linfield is always a challenge. last year ups was up 14 at the half before going ice cold in the 2nd half and losing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 13, 2009, 11:37:57 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 13, 2009, 11:25:44 AM
Two teams in the tournament would be great, but history is working against us and they would probably be matched up against each other.  That would be a shame, because the NWC is a very good conference, and has been for the last several years.  But as sages would say, you have to earn respect.

You would think having a NWC team make it to the sweet 16 the past 5 years (especially while having only one team in the tourney) might earn some respect. i know everybodys argument against this is that we've had a 1st round bye every year, but only sometimes it was because of location, the other times it was earned. and 5-0 in round number 2 against "better teams" is pretty good
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 13, 2009, 11:40:12 AM
new top 25 is up

ups #12
Whitworth #24

huge weekend coming up, a logger win will not only knock WW out of the rankings, but open up a 2 game lead over the defending champs. but who knows anything can, happen especially in spokane
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2009, 12:06:50 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2009, 01:40:15 AMAnd, while money has always been the deciding factor come West coast tourney entries, this season has shown a lot of love for the NWC in the d3 poll.

Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 13, 2009, 11:25:44 AM
Two teams in the tournament would be great, but history is working against us and they would probably be matched up against each other.  That would be a shame, because the NWC is a very good conference, and has been for the last several years.  But as sages would say, you have to earn respect.

Quote from: logshock101 on January 13, 2009, 11:37:57 AM
You would think having a NWC team make it to the sweet 16 the past 5 years (especially while having only one team in the tourney) might earn some respect. i know everybodys argument against this is that we've had a 1st round bye every year, but only sometimes it was because of location, the other times it was earned. and 5-0 in round number 2 against "better teams" is pretty good

Guys, remember that none of these things -- history, respect, money, or the d3hoops.com poll -- dictate who gets into the tournament and who doesn't. The D3 selection committee operates according to a well-defined formula in terms of picking Pool C (at-large) teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 13, 2009, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2009, 12:06:50 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2009, 01:40:15 AMAnd, while money has always been the deciding factor come West coast tourney entries, this season has shown a lot of love for the NWC in the d3 poll.

Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 13, 2009, 11:25:44 AM
Two teams in the tournament would be great, but history is working against us and they would probably be matched up against each other.  That would be a shame, because the NWC is a very good conference, and has been for the last several years.  But as sages would say, you have to earn respect.

Quote from: logshock101 on January 13, 2009, 11:37:57 AM
You would think having a NWC team make it to the sweet 16 the past 5 years (especially while having only one team in the tourney) might earn some respect. i know everybodys argument against this is that we've had a 1st round bye every year, but only sometimes it was because of location, the other times it was earned. and 5-0 in round number 2 against "better teams" is pretty good

Guys, remember that none of these things -- history, respect, money, or the d3hoops.com poll -- dictate who gets into the tournament and who doesn't. The D3 selection committee operates according to a well-defined formula in terms of picking Pool C (at-large) teams.


we know, but sometimes a little complaing can make you feel a lot better  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2009, 02:05:35 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 13, 2009, 01:25:51 PM
we know, but sometimes a little complaing can make you feel a lot better  :)

I can identify with that. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 13, 2009, 07:26:44 PM
Way to go Logs #12...thats great!  Huge weekend for them...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 13, 2009, 07:33:04 PM
Two games on the docket tonight, only one being a conference game.

Pacific plays at GFU

and Linfield will finally get their make-up game in against Seattle U.


This is the battle of the beatens...I think even though GFU has home court, Pacific will finally get a tally in the win column.  Pac by 7      67-60.

Linfield will probably have a real difficult time with Seattle U.  I think I will set the over under at 23.5.  Any takers  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 13, 2009, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 13, 2009, 07:33:04 PM
Two games on the docket tonight, only one being a conference game.

Pacific plays at GFU

and Linfield will finally get their make-up game in against Seattle U.


This is the battle of the beatens...I think even though GFU has home court, Pacific will finally get a tally in the win column.  Pac by 7      67-60.

Linfield will probably have a real difficult time with Seattle U.  I think I will set the over under at 23.5.  Any takers  :)

Having personally seen Seattle U lose 71-67 to a pretty good University of Portland team (that beat Linfield by 58 :o), I'll take the over. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2009, 01:50:12 AM
Linfield took a whooping tonight...40-85. yikes!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2009, 01:52:10 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 13, 2009, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 13, 2009, 07:33:04 PM
Two games on the docket tonight, only one being a conference game.

Pacific plays at GFU

and Linfield will finally get their make-up game in against Seattle U.


This is the battle of the beatens...I think even though GFU has home court, Pacific will finally get a tally in the win column.  Pac by 7      67-60.

Linfield will probably have a real difficult time with Seattle U.  I think I will set the over under at 23.5.  Any takers  :)

Having personally seen Seattle U lose 71-67 to a pretty good University of Portland team (that beat Linfield by 58 :o), I'll take the over. :)

so the line was a little low...lol.  But I guess I gotta pay up.  +1 karma for you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:25:56 AM
Quote

Guys, remember that none of these things -- history, respect, money, or the d3hoops.com poll -- dictate who gets into the tournament and who doesn't. The D3 selection committee operates according to a well-defined formula in terms of picking Pool C (at-large) teams.


I think rather than just one thing dictating who gets in the tournament, they all do..history, respect, money, and a well-defined formula.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:31:27 AM
Is UPS really the 12th best team in the country?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2009, 10:22:06 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:25:56 AM
Quote

Guys, remember that none of these things -- history, respect, money, or the d3hoops.com poll -- dictate who gets into the tournament and who doesn't. The D3 selection committee operates according to a well-defined formula in terms of picking Pool C (at-large) teams.


I think rather than just one thing dictating who gets in the tournament, they all do..history, respect, money, and a well-defined formula.

No, they really don't. The criteria are all very clearly laid out in the NCAA D3 men's basketball championship handbook, which can be downloaded from the NCAA site. History, respect, and money don't enter into it at all. The five primary criteria used by the selection committee to choose Pool C teams are: 1) won-lost percentage in regional games; 2) head-to-head record between Pool C candidates; 3) record vs. common opponents among Pool C candidates; 4) won-lost percentage in regional games against regionally-ranked opponents; and 5) strength of schedule in regional games (which is a combination of opponents' regional winning percentage and opponents' opponents' regional winning percentage).

Where money (or the lack of it) enters into the process is in seeding, not selection. Because the D3 tourney is run on the cheap, the committee tries to save airfare costs wherever possible -- and that means that the NWC and SCIAC teams are inevitably paired up in the first two rounds, with little or no chance of hosting a sectional (the Puget Sound sectional of '04 being the conspicuous exception -- and even that was caused by scheduling conflicts in Wisconsin).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2009, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:31:27 AM
Is UPS really the 12th best team in the country?

I think they are...they are playing some real defense this year.  Only giving up 19 points in the 2nd half to PLU, that's not like any UPS team I have seen in quite some time.  Their only two losses have come against Saint Martins and Warner Pac.

Why do you think they don't deserve it?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:01:32 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 14, 2009, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:31:27 AM
Is UPS really the 12th best team in the country?

I think they are...they are playing some real defense this year.  Only giving up 19 points in the 2nd half to PLU, that's not like any UPS team I have seen in quite some time.  Their only two losses have come against Saint Martins and Warner Pac.

Why do you think they don't deserve it?

No I'm not saying they don't deserve it all. I have not seen them in person yet this year so I was just wondering what others thought. I guess what got me thinking is how Whitworth lost one conference game and dropped all the way to the bottom of the poll.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 14, 2009, 03:06:11 PM
Losing to a 4-8 team is not really a positive. Whitworth was already in the bottom half of the poll to begin with.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 14, 2009, 11:56:51 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:31:27 AM
Is UPS really the 12th best team in the country?
Right now, they certainly are!  After this weekend or a trip through OR, they may not be.  If they keep winning, they deserve to keep rising.  They certainly have the talent to do so, but I am a little luke warm on whether they have the coaching to take them higher.  Lunt is a litte young to be leading a top ten team, and I think it will catch up with him.  But until, and if, they lose, keep on going up the ladder!

As has been posted here before, the NWC teams have knowledge on how to play UPS, and a season long of that style of play can wear a team down.  But their big 3 know they are on their last leg, and that may inspire them to surpass the last three years.  The rest of the season starts Friday.   I imagine the hut will be rolling!

Greg:

The 5 primary criteria.  Are they in order?  Is that why WW schedules Cal Tech every year? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 15, 2009, 12:56:33 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 14, 2009, 11:56:51 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 14, 2009, 03:31:27 AM
Is UPS really the 12th best team in the country?
Right now, they certainly are!  After this weekend or a trip through OR, they may not be.  If they keep winning, they deserve to keep rising.  They certainly have the talent to do so, but I am a little luke warm on whether they have the coaching to take them higher.  Lunt is a litte young to be leading a top ten team, and I think it will catch up with him.  But until, and if, they lose, keep on going up the ladder!

As has been posted here before, the NWC teams have knowledge on how to play UPS, and a season long of that style of play can wear a team down.  But their big 3 know they are on their last leg, and that may inspire them to surpass the last three years.  The rest of the season starts Friday.   I imagine the hut will be rolling!

Greg:

The 5 primary criteria.  Are they in order?  Is that why WW schedules Cal Tech every year? 


1) Loggers play in eastern WA this weekend
2) Lunt gained a ton of experience the last 2 season and is finally coaching his own style and the the team plays pretty good defense and doesnt just try to outscore everybody which should make them much more consistent this year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2009, 11:27:13 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 14, 2009, 11:56:51 PM
The 5 primary criteria.  Are they in order?  Is that why WW schedules Cal Tech every year? 

Theoretically, there is no order of precedence among the five primary criteria; they're all equal. However, those of us who follow the national D3 scene from year to year tend to suspect that regional won-lost percentage carries a little more weight than the other four. Generally, if you can't pull off a .725 winning percentage in regional games, you can forget about getting a Pool C bid -- and you really ought to get up to .750 or above if you want to ensure that your bubble won't be burst on Selection Sunday by conference champions with gaudy records that get upset in their respective conference tournaments.

Whitworth's scheduling of Caltech is a mixed blessing as far as tournament criteria are concerned. The easy win helps the Pirates' regional won-lost percentage, but it hurts their strength of schedule.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 15, 2009, 01:30:34 PM
I've seen UPS play, they're fast, athletic, deep, and they have the best PG in the conference along with Foster up front.  I think they're the real deal and sweet 16 is worst case scenario for them
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 15, 2009, 03:51:31 PM
I too have seen UPS play. Twice. They are good, but sweet 16? They played so-so and had trouble with a mediocre NAIA2 team, Cal Maritime. I then saw them race up and down the court and overwhelm a decent Gustavus Adolphus team. If they can keep up the tempo and play like the GA game, you may be right. For the Logger fans, can they honestly keep that up?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 15, 2009, 06:30:43 PM
Who can say if they're top 12, but this looks like the best Loggers team in several years.  Their top three players (Williams, Foster, Krauel) are outstanding offensively, and in terms of schemes and commitment it looks like the whole team is more focused on the defensive end this year.  The Loggers are deep at the guard position--the frosh Hayman is lightning fast and sometimes moves Williams to the 2; Brown and Koach bring different things but excellent play off the bench, and the frosh Aberg is a true point who can run the team. (Mr. Brown can shoot the 3.)  They're not as strong up front after Krauel and Foster, but Shelton is a load, a good defender and a solid rebounder, If he can just finish a little better, watch out.

So I think they're deep enough to maintain pressure for longer and harder than they have the past couple of years, even while they've backed off the pressure quite a bit.  They are not giving up nearly as many easy buckets as they have the last couple of years, when in my opinion they played lots of tight games against inferior teams because they conceded too many layups against the press.   And of course they were tortured by stronger teams with poised point guards (L&C takes them by 30 last year in the Fieldhouse, and Whitworth's playoff win....)

What a weekend for UPS--Whitman will be interesting for obvious reasons, and as usual Whitworth is a real test.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 15, 2009, 07:01:04 PM
pugetsoundfan don't forget about Boyce, hes another good inside outside threat the loggers have
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 15, 2009, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on January 15, 2009, 06:30:43 PM
They are not giving up nearly as many easy buckets as they have the last couple of years, when in my opinion they played lots of tight games against inferior teams because they conceded too many layups against the press.

From seeing them several times last year I couldn't agree more with this statement. LC was always able to manage the press well thanks to the ball handling skills of Tillery and then break it for easy layups. So are they just not pressing as much now? Or doing it more conservatively?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 15, 2009, 09:46:08 PM
It really is the difference in defense.  That has made this year's logger stand out.  And I think that it will take them far.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 15, 2009, 09:53:28 PM
Pio, I am not sure exactly what the difference is...the games I have seen, they are still seem to be playing a high pressure game.  The difference is that they are getting back on defense and not giving up easy lay-ups.  Some how Lunt has been able to motivate them to play D in the half.  Their opponents field goal percentage is considerably lower.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 12:55:58 AM
Big big games tomorrow...pretty excited for it!  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 16, 2009, 01:35:14 PM
QuoteLinfield took a whooping tonight...40-85. yikes!

Double yikes!

I suppose that has not been done since Elgin Baylor played there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 02:50:19 PM
NWCer, Pacific is on the board!  How are they going to fare this weekend?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 02:54:40 PM
Willamette at. Pacific
PLU at Whitman
LC at Linfield

and the biggest game of the weekend UPS at Whitworth.

any predictions?  Other then UPS taking down WW  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 16, 2009, 03:57:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 02:54:40 PM
any predictions?  Other then UPS taking down WW  ;D

I have to go with WW at home, by 5.

LC takes down Lin by 6
PLU loses to Whit by 10
Willamette beats Pac by 15

I wish I could get to Spokane!  I'll probably go see LC at Lin.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 16, 2009, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 02:54:40 PM
Willamette at. Pacific
PLU at Whitman
LC at Linfield

and the biggest game of the weekend UPS at Whitworth.

any predictions?  Other then UPS taking down WW  ;D

Willamette over Pac by 12
Whitman over PLU by 4
Linfield over LC by 8
UPS over WW by 3
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 16, 2009, 04:14:35 PM
I think Whitworth and UPS split this year with each taking the home contest

Whitworth 82 UPS 78
Whitman 100 PLU 94
LC 79 Linfield 72
Willamette 81 Pacific 69
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 16, 2009, 06:56:19 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 16, 2009, 04:14:35 PM

Whitworth 82 UPS 78


i expect this to be more of a defensive battle than years past, i wouldnt be surprised if this one is in the high 60s low 70s
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 10:44:11 PM
lol, UPS is a defensive slugfest...who would have thought?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 10:51:27 PM
Almost GAMETIME!!!   8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 10:56:56 PM
I have UPS over WW by 5...88-83

GO LOGS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 11:48:29 PM
So far it hasn't been a defensive battle...At the half UPS is up on WW by 14, 48-34.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 16, 2009, 11:51:47 PM
UPS is looking good...Krauel has 11, Williams has  9 and Levin has 9 to lead the Logs.  Levin had the hot hand from long range going 3-4.  UPS has done a good job of bottling up WW on the primeter but are struggling a bit on the inside.  Montgomery has 12 point (8 coming on FTs) and Jurich has 9.  WW has only managed 1 3-pointer.  However, WW is doing a good job getting to the line (9-14).  UPS only had it there 8 times.

Looking forward to the second half!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 12:03:21 AM
The second half is underway
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 12:07:22 AM
Another 3 by Levin! his 4th
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 12:07:41 AM
Riley answers with a 3...wow
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 12:08:38 AM
UPS is up 13, 59-46 with 16:00 left in the game...T.O. WW
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 12:10:07 AM
sorry...those were meant for the update board
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 12:48:50 AM
Great win by the Loggers...5-0 in the NWC   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 17, 2009, 01:32:15 AM
Every prediction had my Boxers losing to Willamette by double digits...  Way to get it done with a limited roster boys!  Get healthy!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 17, 2009, 02:54:50 AM
Sounds like UPS-WW was an exciting game with WW making a charge to get back in it late. Good win for the Pios against Linfield as they move into sole possession of second place!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 11:55:58 AM
games today:

PLU at WW
Linfield at GFU
Willamette at LC
UPS at Whitman

UPS/Whitman will be an interesting game, with the Logger squaring off against their old coach Bridgeland.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 17, 2009, 02:05:26 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 17, 2009, 11:55:58 AM
games today:

PLU at WW
Linfield at GFU
Willamette at LC
UPS at Whitman

UPS/Whitman will be an interesting game, with the Logger squaring off against their old coach Bridgeland.

WW gets back on track against PLU with a 76-68 win
George Fox stays in the cellar with a 84-70 loss to Linfield
LC downs Willamette in a close one 75-72
UPS destroys Whitman 85-67
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 17, 2009, 07:02:04 PM
Hey people, been gone...not surprised but disappointed with last weeks Linfield loss.  I think it firmly made UPS the team to beat and they came to Spokane last night and played well.  No slugfest just two talented teams with the better team winning....better team right now.  All of us who watch should know that UPS has started the last 2 seasons with a 5-0 start and first place.  Then to slide down in the next 3 weeks and be overtaken by WW and in 06-07 WW and LC.  Now that being said..UPS has beaten WW and LC early.  Congrats.

Not accepting defeat or conceding the conference by any means, WW like others is going to fight to make the 4 team playoff (new in 09) and get into the NCAA's.  That has to be the plan..not losing a third time to any team. WW is doing a pretty good job of staying at a high level despite the loss of POTY and senior depth.  UPS is obviously loaded and has plenty of seniors, could be their year. In fact, maybe such a good year that they could get to NWC final, lose and get an at large without a doubt.  Could happen very easily.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 17, 2009, 11:37:25 PM
anybody else having problems with the live video from the ups-whitman feed?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 17, 2009, 11:54:29 PM
its up again....not impressed with the loggers so far. very sloppy and giving up easy shots to a whitman team that really just isnt very good
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 18, 2009, 01:23:22 AM
Just spoke with a buddy of mine who went to the Wil-LC game.  Apparently there was a power outage at halftime, and the game was called.  He said Wil came out strong at first and was up like 12, but LC came back to lead by 3 at the half.  He also said the AD was reporting the game woud be completed Monday night at 7:00 pm at the start of the second half.  Pretty weird!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 01:40:38 AM
Weird doesn't begin to describe it.  We were waiting for the 2nd half to start & it got really dark!  Downright creepy.  Apparently, the wind caused a power outage in that part of Portland.  As we drove south the lights were all on everywhere else.

Do you suppose the LC comeback was helped at all by the fact that WU had 14 fouls & LC only 5 at half time?  Hmmm.... I wonder!

Maybe with a new night we can get new refs.  One can only hope!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 18, 2009, 01:44:18 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 01:40:38 AM
Maybe with a new night we can get new refs.  One can only hope!

I second that motion.  That was possibly the most atrocious half of officiating I've ever witnessed in person!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 01:46:08 AM
Yeah, do you suppose Coach James arranged for that power outage? ;)  I don't mind bad calls, but consistently inconsistent and one-sided -- that really bugs me!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 18, 2009, 02:13:12 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 01:46:08 AM
Yeah, do you suppose Coach James arranged for that power outage? ;)  I don't mind bad calls, but consistently inconsistent and one-sided -- that really bugs me!

Agreed.  Do you know offhand what the free throw disparity was?  I'm guessing L&C had somewhere around 10 more  made and attempted than the Bearcats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 02:20:53 AM
Not sure, but the L&C only had 5 team fouls in the first half, so it would've only been on fouls against shooters.  Most of those were called "jump balls" or "travelling" so they won't show up as fouls and they didn't get to the line much.

Not that it's too related, but did you see the Women's game?  WU shot 4 Free throws to L&C's 22!

So, will you be there Monday?  Assuming the storm passes & there's power?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 18, 2009, 03:03:29 AM
Didn't see Whitworth's loss at Linfield, so I didn't have any comments on that one.

I wanted to wait until tonight's game to see how the Pirates would bounce back from the UPS loss.

Observations:

UPS is really good.  They are as deep as the NWC title teams that came into the Fieldhouse a few years ago.  Whitworth played poorly for about 5-6 minutes in the first half, and that was all UPS needed to take over.  I think their depth will go a long way toward preventing a UPS collapse this season, but Pirate fans can hope.

Whitworth is still a strong squad.  Tonight's first half was as dominating as I've ever seen.  David Riley was nailing three from everywhere in the first half and had 34 at halftime.  Whitworth led 57-14 at halftime!  It was good to see the Bucs bounce back with authority.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 18, 2009, 03:05:42 AM
Wow, crazy night at L&C.  14 fouls in one half, especially a first half when isn't going to be fouling to get possessions, is pretty unusual.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 04:44:59 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 18, 2009, 02:13:12 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 01:46:08 AM
Yeah, do you suppose Coach James arranged for that power outage? ;)  I don't mind bad calls, but consistently inconsistent and one-sided -- that really bugs me!

Agreed.  Do you know offhand what the free throw disparity was?  I'm guessing L&C had somewhere around 10 more  made and attempted than the Bearcats.

Hey BCP---just found the answer to your question.   WU had 7 FT attempts & L&C had 18 FT attempts in the first half.  But you know as well as I do, that the foul calls were only a part of it!   Maybe Monday ..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 18, 2009, 04:58:36 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 18, 2009, 03:05:42 AM
Wow, crazy night at L&C.  14 fouls in one half, especially a first half when isn't going to be fouling to get possessions, is pretty unusual.

No, the crazy part of the night was when the lights went out.   Really, really dark!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 18, 2009, 05:37:37 AM
Logshow!!!   :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on January 18, 2009, 02:14:38 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 17, 2009, 11:54:29 PM
its up again....not impressed with the loggers so far. very sloppy and giving up easy shots to a whitman team that really just isnt very good

Not sure if I've seen a positive comment our of you logshock101 about this year's version of the Loggers.  From my understanding, this is one of the better Logger clubs of recent times.  What is it that you've seen that makes you think this isn't a good team?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 18, 2009, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: pantherpride06 on January 18, 2009, 02:14:38 PM

Not sure if I've seen a positive comment our of you logshock101 about this year's version of the Loggers.  From my understanding, this is one of the better Logger clubs of recent times.  What is it that you've seen that makes you think this isn't a good team?

I know Shock can speak for himself, but I just have to jump in here.  Shock has been honest about the loggers for as long as I can remember.  He is not a rah-rah guy no matter what, and will say it like it is when UPS is not playing well, and I have agreed with him most of the time.

When I said Lunt might be too young to lead a team for the final half of the season and into the playoffs, Shock is the one who stood up for him.  I know he is a UPS fan through and through, and wants his team to do well, even when they aren't playing their best.  When he says they are not playing welll, that doesn't mean he isn't rooting for them.

Enough.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 18, 2009, 07:49:23 PM
I don't think it's a shot at the Logs to say that they didn't play well at Whitman.  I think he's right.  I was streaming the video while doing some other stuff, and while the game was never, ever in doubt the Loggers were a little out of sync for much of the night.  On the other hand, the defense was pretty good (though Whitman's quick point was getting to the hoop a little too easily) and, as they've done for most of the season, UPS made life miserable for opponents' big long range scorers.  Fraidley had few decent looks.  Coming off the big win at Whitworth and playing an inferior opponent on the road, the win they got was sound and worth celebrating. 

In perspective, UPS has lost two games, one to a nationally ranked DII school and the other to a nationally ranked NAIA school, both tight contests.  They haven't had a close game in conference.  Today D3hoops is touting #2 St. Thomas blowout win over Gustavus as evidence that it deserves its rating....the Logs crushed them, too.

The bottom line is that the Logs are good and they're deep, they're playing good hard defense, and they seem to have enough deep threats to hang with good long range shooting teams.  It's their year for the taking in NWC.     

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on January 18, 2009, 08:57:31 PM
I didn't mean to start a war... I was just curious what he saw.  My bad if it come across as mad or upset.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2009, 12:35:34 AM
Quote from: pantherpride06 on January 18, 2009, 08:57:31 PM
I didn't mean to start a war... I was just curious what he saw.  My bad if it come across as mad or upset.

I didn't see it like that at all.  No hard feelings from this perspective.

I think logshock was just frustrated by some of the easy baskets giving up and the fact that UPS is heads and shoulders better then Whitman, but was playing down to them a little bit (what has happened the past few years).  I think that everyone around UPS and its fans have high expectations...thats all.

It has been refreshing to see the Logs actually play some defense this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 19, 2009, 12:41:26 AM
What a great weekend for the loggers...sweeping the eastern washington trip is huge for them.  I am thinking they have a great shot at finishing the first round 8-0.  I don't think that the great UPS team that won 3 straight conference crowns even did that.  Great weekend guys!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:51:43 PM
Quote from: pantherpride06 on January 18, 2009, 02:14:38 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 17, 2009, 11:54:29 PM
its up again....not impressed with the loggers so far. very sloppy and giving up easy shots to a whitman team that really just isnt very good

Not sure if I've seen a positive comment our of you logshock101 about this year's version of the Loggers.  From my understanding, this is one of the better Logger clubs of recent times.  What is it that you've seen that makes you think this isn't a good team?

don't get me wrong, i am one of the biggest ups fans that you'll ever meet, i lived and died by logger hoops when i was in school and still do the same now that im not there. in my opinion i'd my opinion, in terms of talent id say this is the 4th best team since the 03-04 season. the best was the 04-05 squad, then the 03-04 squad, then last years underachieving squad (i think if lunts adjustments to the defense and defensive style for the 08-09 team were applied to last years team, they woulda gone real far especially with an all round stud like wood and a pure shooter like marsh, something this years team lacks) and then the 08-09 team. all that being said i think that this ups team is VERY good, but i am skeptical after the last 2 seasons. it was never the 1st half of NWC play that was the problem, the last 2 years the loggers started out 7-1 and then dropped off the 2nd half of conference. i would give anything to not have that happen again this year, and it frustrates me when we play down to the level of a lesser team, because all that does is give them a chance to hang around and maybe pull off the upset. its the little slip ups that decide who will be conference champs.

I didn't take this as any sort of a personal attack, as my good friend mtnman might have  ;) but a huge win over whitworth on friday and some bad play against whitman on the next night is something i still have nightmares about
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:53:13 PM
logggers are in a great spot to start conference 8-0 with the next 2 games at home. gotta hold at home!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
any of u LC or bearcat fans got predictions for the final 20 minutes of action? My guess is that Gordie will have watched 1st half game film and made some adjustments that are gonna make Willamette pretty tough tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 19, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
any of u LC or bearcat fans got predictions for the final 20 minutes of action? My guess is that Gordie will have watched 1st half game film and made some adjustments that are gonna make Willamette pretty tough tonight

Yeah this one is kind of scary. I think it will stay close to the end with LC winning 74-69. Look for Kollasch to do the majority of the scoring in the second half for LC.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 19, 2009, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
any of u LC or bearcat fans got predictions for the final 20 minutes of action? My guess is that Gordie will have watched 1st half game film and made some adjustments that are gonna make Willamette pretty tough tonight

I agree - but the fouls are going to be a major factor.  Mitchell has three, and I think Kunke has three too.  If Mitchell picks up a fourth early on in the second half, our ability to work in the paint takes a major hit.  Tain Cantrell just doesn't have the same finishing skills as Mitchell.

I'm still trying to get over 14 team fouls against L&C's 5 in the first half.  Anyone know who those officials were/are?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2009, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 19, 2009, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
any of u LC or bearcat fans got predictions for the final 20 minutes of action? My guess is that Gordie will have watched 1st half game film and made some adjustments that are gonna make Willamette pretty tough tonight

I agree - but the fouls are going to be a major factor.  Mitchell has three, and I think Kunke has three too.  If Mitchell picks up a fourth early on in the second half, our ability to work in the paint takes a major hit.  Tain Cantrell just doesn't have the same finishing skills as Mitchell.

I'm still trying to get over 14 team fouls against L&C's 5 in the first half.  Anyone know who those officials were/are?

BCP, you have to get over blaming it on the officials.  I didn't see the game, but my biddy who was there explained it to me.

Wil didn't go inside very much and when they did, they had the physical ability to pull up for the jumper or finish inside.  LC's big men are not that physical and tend to get out of the way.

LC on the other hand was driving to the basket time and again, and Wil was trying to block every shot or reaching. 

That was his take, and I know that is hersay, but it makes sense.  The fouls would probably have been nearly the same with a different set of officials. 

And usually, the same officials are given the same game when it is played from a certain point on, like this one.  So expect the same officials.

He also found a set of halftime stats (I think he swiped them in the dark), and said Mitchlell has three, and Kunke, Babich, Constantino and Erickson have two.

He sent me the names of the officials, but lets not go there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2009, 04:29:04 PM
My two cents regarding Whitworth this weekend...

UPS is good, better than they have been for the last couple of years, but I don't think they are much better than Whitworth.  Whitworth's big men had a lot of success against UPS (as usual) and as a team they broke the press with relative ease for most of the game.  They made a few nice runs (it was a 2 point game about midway through the second half) but UPS continued to make big 3 pointer, after 3 pointer to end the Pirate run.  This UPS team shot 48% against Whitworth...48%.  They basically played their best game of the season when it counted.  The question is, will they be able to do it again come conference tourney time?  As of right now UPS and Whit should be 1-2, both winning their 1st round game and meeting in Tacoma for the automatic bid to the playoffs.  UPS will once again have to have a great shooting night since I don't see them winning the battle down low...Foster may be big put he is much more comfortable around the perimeter, face up to the basket.  He isn't nearly as effective when he's posting up.  Also, Whitworth will once again have to beat the press and get easy buckets in the paint since UPS matches up with David Riley so well.  The tall UPS guards make it tough for Riley to get a shot off, limiting his scoring potential (see Whitworth vs. PLU for an example of what Riley can do against guys he can shoot over).  All in all, last friday night was very entertaining...just wish Whitworth would have won!  :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2009, 04:44:10 PM
Thanks Pio, for the education!  But today being a holiday, I decided to take the day off from school. 

But it does sound like my date from last Saturday.  I guess I should have called her my Biddy instead of .....

I will run spell check from now on to avoid typo's.   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 19, 2009, 05:28:02 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2009, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 19, 2009, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
any of u LC or bearcat fans got predictions for the final 20 minutes of action? My guess is that Gordie will have watched 1st half game film and made some adjustments that are gonna make Willamette pretty tough tonight

I agree - but the fouls are going to be a major factor.  Mitchell has three, and I think Kunke has three too.  If Mitchell picks up a fourth early on in the second half, our ability to work in the paint takes a major hit.  Tain Cantrell just doesn't have the same finishing skills as Mitchell.

I'm still trying to get over 14 team fouls against L&C's 5 in the first half.  Anyone know who those officials were/are?

BCP, you have to get over blaming it on the officials.  I didn't see the game, but my biddy who was there explained it to me.

Wil didn't go inside very much and when they did, they had the physical ability to pull up for the jumper or finish inside.  LC's big men are not that physical and tend to get out of the way.

LC on the other hand was driving to the basket time and again, and Wil was trying to block every shot or reaching. 

That was his take, and I know that is hersay, but it makes sense.  The fouls would probably have been nearly the same with a different set of officials. 

And usually, the same officials are given the same game when it is played from a certain point on, like this one.  So expect the same officials.

He also found a set of halftime stats (I think he swiped them in the dark), and said Mitchlell has three, and Kunke, Babich, Constantino and Erickson have two.

He sent me the names of the officials, but lets not go there.


You're right - it's not good to blame the officials.  But there were more than a few times when the refs were out of position, saw a Pioneer stumble, and automatically blew the whistle and pointed at the closest Bearcat.  Case in point: Papenfuss (I think) is driving to the basket, guarded by Mitchell.  No stripes within ten feet.  Papenfuss trips over his own feet on a drive, whistle blows, throws the ball in the general direction of the basket, and gets two FTs.  Two points for the Pios and Mitchell's third foul on what should have been a travel.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Of course, all of this is moot if WU pulls it out tonight.  Go Cats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 05:55:51 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 19, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
any of u LC or bearcat fans got predictions for the final 20 minutes of action? My guess is that Gordie will have watched 1st half game film and made some adjustments that are gonna make Willamette pretty tough tonight

Yeah this one is kind of scary. I think it will stay close to the end with LC winning 74-69. Look for Kollasch to do the majority of the scoring in the second half for LC.



what about pappenfus, wasnt he the teams leading scorer earlier in the year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 05:57:46 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 19, 2009, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2009, 03:40:32 PM
I didn't see the game, but my biddy who was there explained it to me.

From urbandictionary.com:

Biddy- a dumbass bitch, usually 18 or younger. picture it: short shorts, ugg boots, string straight hair and mad eye makeup for a high school frosh. they go out at night looking for the party so they can get ****ty on mikes hard, cheap wine, or other people's alcohol. they have a bun on the top of their head as if they rolled out of bed looking like a pre-pubescent prostitute. being a biddy means being dumb is the cool thing to do.

Buddy- 1. friend, pal,

;D


haha that is some funny stuff right there. if i had the ability id +1 your karma for that little bit of info
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2009, 07:48:27 PM
Shock!  Don't encourage him!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 19, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 05:55:51 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 19, 2009, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
any of u LC or bearcat fans got predictions for the final 20 minutes of action? My guess is that Gordie will have watched 1st half game film and made some adjustments that are gonna make Willamette pretty tough tonight

Yeah this one is kind of scary. I think it will stay close to the end with LC winning 74-69. Look for Kollasch to do the majority of the scoring in the second half for LC.



what about pappenfus, wasnt he the teams leading scorer earlier in the year?

Yeah he was the leading scorer in six of the nine non-confernce games but hasn't been the leading scorer since. The same thing happened last year in conference. He still contributes and usually finishes in double figures though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 19, 2009, 07:52:59 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 19, 2009, 05:57:46 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 19, 2009, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2009, 03:40:32 PM
I didn't see the game, but my biddy who was there explained it to me.

From urbandictionary.com:

Biddy- a dumbass bitch, usually 18 or younger. picture it: short shorts, ugg boots, string straight hair and mad eye makeup for a high school frosh. they go out at night looking for the party so they can get ****ty on mikes hard, cheap wine, or other people's alcohol. they have a bun on the top of their head as if they rolled out of bed looking like a pre-pubescent prostitute. being a biddy means being dumb is the cool thing to do.

Buddy- 1. friend, pal,

;D


haha that is some funny stuff right there. if i had the ability id +1 your karma for that little bit of info

haha hey I had to +1 TMT's karma just for making that mistake  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 19, 2009, 10:50:52 PM
And at the end of the weekend, we're back to a three-way tie for second place.  How Willamette can beat L&C but lose to Pacific, I don't know.

This conference is nuts!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 19, 2009, 11:04:41 PM
Were you at the Will-Pac game Bearcat Press?  How could you "not know" how Willamette could lose to Pac?  Wasn't Pac picked to come in 4th?  Tied for 3rd last season with Will/LC/Linfield, and beat Will at Pac last year, and the year before that as well?  And had 2 last possession losses at Willamette the last 2 years, not really surprised....That's why you play the games... Linfield hammers Whitworth but loses to George Fox...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 19, 2009, 11:40:50 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 19, 2009, 11:04:41 PM
Were you at the Will-Pac game Bearcat Press?  How could you "not know" how Willamette could lose to Pac?  Wasn't Pac picked to come in 4th?  Tied for 3rd last season with Will/LC/Linfield, and beat Will at Pac last year, and the year before that as well?  And had 2 last possession losses at Willamette the last 2 years, not really surprised....That's why you play the games... Linfield hammers Whitworth but loses to George Fox...

Hey, I meant no offense, NWCer.  I really like the Boxers - in fact, my grandfather was a vice-president at Pacific back in the 70s, so I kind of consider it my second NWC school.  I wasn't at the Pac/WU game, but I did watch the Boxers play GFU last Tuesday.  If someone had asked me if there was one game I thought WU would lose this weekend, I'd have said L&C.  You guys had a rough start to NWC play, but you've really picked it up the past couple of games.  I think it's really a credit to Coach Lowery and the team that they can rebound from losing the Bartletts and be a factor in the conference race.

You're right - that's why you play the games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 19, 2009, 11:51:52 PM
My bad BearcatPress, I think my post came off rougher than intended... Thanks for the response...  I understand where you're coming from...

I agree with you that Lowery is doing a good job to keep the boat afloat without the Bartletts, I know Carson Bartlett's injury is season ending but I think Ross Bartlett is expected back soon.  Either way I think my Boxers have an absolute beast waiting for them in Tacoma Friday, hope they can put up some type of fight.  Linfield at home on Saturday, a split this weekend I'm sure they would take.

Great game tonight for your Bearcats...  We're you there?

You say you were at the Pac-Fox game Tuesday, what did you think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 20, 2009, 02:46:38 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 19, 2009, 10:50:52 PM
And at the end of the weekend, we're back to a three-way tie for second place.  How Willamette can beat L&C but lose to Pacific, I don't know.

This conference is nuts!

WU hasn't won at Pacific since 2006!  My theory is because it's so dark in there--like a bat cave.  We usually split with them & beat them at home -- too much light for their shooters, I guess.    Don't forget:  Pacific beat Willamette who beat Whitman who beat Pacific!!  This conference IS nuts -- any team can win on any night.  Isn't that just basketball?

The finish tonight was knuckle biting.   I'm glad the Bearcats pulled out the win.  They need to play better defense & quit turning the ball over.   It was too bad that Mitchell had to spend time on the bench, but it was nice to see Tain playing again.  He plays great defense.  Not much that goes down for stats, but his presence makes a definite difference!  Seems like WU's missing a few to injuries -- Currie, Thompson & that new guy, Robert somebody.  They're all good defensive players and decent shooters as well.

Does anyone know why L&C doesn't play their #5 more?  He used to start last year & now he hardly gets minutes.  I'm not complaining -- he's pretty good!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 20, 2009, 02:50:46 AM
NWCer, I appreciate the respect you are giving the Loggers  :)
but as you said in an earlier post...that's why you play the game.  You should come up north and check the game out on Friday.  It should be a good game, and the atmosphere with be great since the students are back from break.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 20, 2009, 03:28:00 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 20, 2009, 02:46:38 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 19, 2009, 10:50:52 PM
And at the end of the weekend, we're back to a three-way tie for second place.  How Willamette can beat L&C but lose to Pacific, I don't know.

This conference is nuts!

WU hasn't won at Pacific since 2006!  My theory is because it's so dark in there--like a bat cave.  We usually split with them & beat them at home -- too much light for their shooters, I guess.    Don't forget:  Pacific beat Willamette who beat Whitman who beat Pacific!!  This conference IS nuts -- any team can win on any night.  Isn't that just basketball?

The finish tonight was knuckle biting.   I'm glad the Bearcats pulled out the win.  They need to play better defense & quit turning the ball over.   It was too bad that Mitchell had to spend time on the bench, but it was nice to see Tain playing again.  He plays great defense.  Not much that goes down for stats, but his presence makes a definite difference!  Seems like WU's missing a few to injuries -- Currie, Thompson & that new guy, Robert somebody.  They're all good defensive players and decent shooters as well.

Does anyone know why L&C doesn't play their #5 more?  He used to start last year & now he hardly gets minutes.  I'm not complaining -- he's pretty good!

Are you referring to Tyler Tsukazaki? Small guard from Hawaii? If so, he is good but never really scored that much. I think coach G just likes the freshmen guards better because they score more.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 20, 2009, 03:53:17 AM
The eastern Washington battle is tomorrow and hopefully Dave Riley can upstage Obama and put on a performance like he did Sat vs PLU.  People he went for 34 in the FIRST half!!  Does the conference keep those kind of records?  Oh yea, he is a sophmore.

It will be nice to climb into second place after tomorrow's game (at WW).  Looks like the standings are right in place with preseason predictions, but as It has been said earlier, you gotta play the games.  Go Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 21, 2009, 03:09:46 AM
This one was never even close...Whitworth over Whitman 101-70.  Bridgeland has a lot of work to do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 21, 2009, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 21, 2009, 03:09:46 AM
This one was never even close...Whitworth over Whitman 101-70.  Bridgeland has a lot of work to do.

But the big question, Rat, is, why did Hayford leave the starters in since it was such a blowout?  Seems like it would've been a good night to let someone like Stockton play??

Pio20-- I was referring to Tsukazaki--I thought he was pretty mean with 3's?  Maybe not.  He might have just had a great streak the night I watched him.  I do remember him being very aggressive at the defensive end.

Should be an interesting game between the Pios & the Pirates on Friday.  Think it'll be close, but L&C should win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 21, 2009, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 21, 2009, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 21, 2009, 03:09:46 AM
This one was never even close...Whitworth over Whitman 101-70.  Bridgeland has a lot of work to do.

But the big question, Rat, is, why did Hayford leave the starters in since it was such a blowout?  Seems like it would've been a good night to let someone like Stockton play??

Pio20-- I was referring to Tsukazaki--I thought he was pretty mean with 3's?  Maybe not.  He might have just had a great streak the night I watched him.  I do remember him being very aggressive at the defensive end.

Should be an interesting game between the Pios & the Pirates on Friday.  Think it'll be close, but L&C should win.

Tsukazaki is shooting at a .185 clip from behind the arc. Not sure what game you saw him. But he must have been on fire that night. I hope the Pios can pull out a win Friday! If they continue to take the ball to the hoop and get to the foul line they have a good chance to win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 21, 2009, 04:48:39 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 21, 2009, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 21, 2009, 03:09:46 AM
This one was never even close...Whitworth over Whitman 101-70.  Bridgeland has a lot of work to do.

But the big question, Rat, is, why did Hayford leave the starters in since it was such a blowout?  Seems like it would've been a good night to let someone like Stockton play??

Should be an interesting game between the Pios & the Pirates on Friday.  Think it'll be close, but L&C should win.

I am pretty sure I saw the lead down to 16 in the second half.  WW was in control but it wasn't a classic blowout.  I think playing the starters was the right call, plus starters only got like 5 minutes of second half action in the real blowout (45 point lead) against PLU Saturday night.  Nakamura going for all 40...fine 10 guys played for WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 21, 2009, 07:15:45 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 21, 2009, 01:23:55 PM
But the big question, Rat, is, why did Hayford leave the starters in since it was such a blowout?  Seems like it would've been a good night to let someone like Stockton play??

Simple answer...you don't put your subs against that press with 5+ minutes left because they can cause enough turnovers/force enough bad shots to get right back in a 16 point game. 

Oh, and its Hayford who is the second biggest d*** in the conference behind Bridgeland.  The only reason people tolerate him is because he's a fundraising machine and he wins...a lot.  He's actually a really nice guy off the court, just a little arrogant when it comes to his program at Whitworth

*This post in no way reflects the opinion or values of Whitworth University.  They are original property of the author (509)Rat himself. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 21, 2009, 08:02:50 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 19, 2009, 11:51:52 PM
My bad BearcatPress, I think my post came off rougher than intended... Thanks for the response...  I understand where you're coming from...

I agree with you that Lowery is doing a good job to keep the boat afloat without the Bartletts, I know Carson Bartlett's injury is season ending but I think Ross Bartlett is expected back soon.  Either way I think my Boxers have an absolute beast waiting for them in Tacoma Friday, hope they can put up some type of fight.  Linfield at home on Saturday, a split this weekend I'm sure they would take.

Great game tonight for your Bearcats...  We're you there?

You say you were at the Pac-Fox game Tuesday, what did you think?

That makes two of us that hopes the Boxers give UPS a fight on Friday night.  Take them to overtime or something! ;)  I actually think the Boxers match up pretty well with the Logs, as long as they don't let themselves get into an up-tempo game.  Howe can just dominate the paint.  Of course, you can't overlook Linfield either.  They're definitely the enigma of the conference this year.

Great character game for the Bearcats against L&C on Monday night.  I wasn't able to make it, but I listened to Mike Allegre's webcast.  The Pios are very good team, but IMO they settled for way too many threes in the second half.  Given their success in getting to the foul line on Saturday, I was really surprised that they didn't attack as much on Monday.  All that being said, I'm kind of freaked out that UPS torched a team that good by 24. :o

The big positive for WU coming out of the L&C game is that we've proven we can win without Cam Mitchell, who fouled out after only 18 minutes of play.  Four other guys had double figures, and Scott Schoettgen and Tain Cantrell really stepped up in Cam's absence.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 21, 2009, 10:26:55 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 21, 2009, 07:15:45 PM
Oh, and its Hayford who is the second biggest d*** in the conference behind Bridgeland.  The only reason people tolerate him is because he's a fundraising machine and he wins...a lot.  He's actually a really nice guy off the court, just a little arrogant when it comes to his program at Whitworth
-1....and you can STFU.   Hayford and Bridgeland show pride, passion and commitment to their jobs and if you have a problem with competitiveness there's a board for hairpies like yourself somewhere out there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2009, 01:22:36 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 21, 2009, 08:02:50 PM
Quote from: NWCer on January 19, 2009, 11:51:52 PM
My bad BearcatPress, I think my post came off rougher than intended... Thanks for the response...  I understand where you're coming from...

I agree with you that Lowery is doing a good job to keep the boat afloat without the Bartletts, I know Carson Bartlett's injury is season ending but I think Ross Bartlett is expected back soon.  Either way I think my Boxers have an absolute beast waiting for them in Tacoma Friday, hope they can put up some type of fight.  Linfield at home on Saturday, a split this weekend I'm sure they would take.

Great game tonight for your Bearcats...  We're you there?

You say you were at the Pac-Fox game Tuesday, what did you think?

That makes two of us that hopes the Boxers give UPS a fight on Friday night.  Take them to overtime or something! ;)  I actually think the Boxers match up pretty well with the Logs, as long as they don't let themselves get into an up-tempo game.  Howe can just dominate the paint.  Of course, you can't overlook Linfield either.  They're definitely the enigma of the conference this year.

Great character game for the Bearcats against L&C on Monday night.  I wasn't able to make it, but I listened to Mike Allegre's webcast.  The Pios are very good team, but IMO they settled for way too many threes in the second half.  Given their success in getting to the foul line on Saturday, I was really surprised that they didn't attack as much on Monday.  All that being said, I'm kind of freaked out that UPS torched a team that good by 24. :o

The big positive for WU coming out of the L&C game is that we've proven we can win without Cam Mitchell, who fouled out after only 18 minutes of play.  Four other guys had double figures, and Scott Schoettgen and Tain Cantrell really stepped up in Cam's absence.

yeah I am going to have to disagree with the bolded statement.  Howe has never faired well against the Loggers.  Personally, I don't think he likes the physical in your face defense of UPS.  All the games I have seen him in against UPS he was a none factor.  That said, I don't know if it that Pac matches up well...but they have done a good job of really slowing UPS down.  They do a good job of shortening the game and limiting possesions, but if they don't shoot a high percentage, they are going to struggle to stay in the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 22, 2009, 01:54:18 AM
Logshow,

Are you going to the game?  I'm tempted to but that Friday drive heading up there sucks!

I was at the Pac-Willamette game, GREAT performance by my Boxers, going to take another GREAT performance to keep up with the Loggers up there.  Pacific needs to get healthy.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 22, 2009, 04:03:46 PM
NWhoops:
Are you related to Jim?  Maybe an analogy will make sense to you...Hayford and Bridgeland would be the Bill Belichick's of NWC hoops.  They have an amazing eye for talent and systems that best utilize that talent.  They have both built incredibly strong programs based on their abilities as recruiters and coaches.  However, when it comes to on the court (or on the field in the case of belichik) they are jerks.  Check out what the Pats did to the jets after mangini pissed off belichick.  At that point sportsmanship didn't matter and it was personal.  I will point out though that the none of these guys show anything but respect for their own players, its the opposing team that gets the brunt of it all (and I think thats fine).  Its a proven coaching method, and I have no qualms with it...in many cases it works (for the Patriots, Pirates, and Loggers it worked wonders).  On the flip side you have the Tony Dungy approach as I like to call it.  He is much more reserved both on and off the field and treats everyone with respect.  For the Colts it worked, the Buccaneers had to bring in Gruden to fire people up before they won a Super Bowl...to each his own.

Somebody asked why Whit had their starters in when up by over 20 points...i apologize for giving an honest (unbiased) answer.  I never played basketball at Whitworth so I have no hidden agenda.  In fact, I've never had an encounter with Hayford that made me not like the guy.  Just being real...sorry that NWhoops couldn't handle it.  STFU?  Seriously?  Are we in high school?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2009, 04:58:27 PM
NWCer, I am going to try to make it to the game, as long as traffic lets me...it should be a great atmosphere with the students back.  I recommend you make the treck up the Greater Puget Sound Area  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2009, 05:02:39 PM
There are some huge games this weekend!

Either WW or LC is going to have 3 losses and will really put them behind in the conference title race...especially if UPS holds at home (which I fully expect)  :)

That would put UPS at 8-0, with LC and WW at 6-2 or 5-3, and Willamette at 5-3
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 22, 2009, 07:52:55 PM
certainly are some big games this weekend. i hope to see separation between ups and the rest of the league.

good call on howe being ineffective against ups, he is yet to have a big game against us. (knock on wood)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 22, 2009, 11:12:56 PM
Pacific was he only conference team the Loggers blew out a home last year.  I have a good feeling about the Pacific game, but I have a very, very bad feeling about Willamette.  They've stood up to the pressure very well the past few years...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2009, 11:27:35 AM
Games in the NWC tonight:

GFU @ Willamette
Linfield @ PLU
Pacific @ UPS

and the big game of the evening WW @ LC.

Predictions?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 23, 2009, 01:41:36 PM
Willamette is just too good for Fox, I will say Wil by 15.

Lin at PLU could be a good match up, especially if Dressler is back.  I will go with the home team on this one and say PLU by 5.

Pac at UPS should be an easy one for UPS, but that Pac mystique.  I still have to go with UPS by 25.

And, you are right, Show, the big one will be WW at LC.  I get to see this one, finally getting to see a LC game, and hope for a good game.  WW on paper should be a strong favorite, but they have had trouble at LC in the past, losing there last year.  After the letdown against Wil on Monday, who knows where LC is.  Probably a close game (that would be nice for this fan), and I am going to guess LC by 5.

Nearing the half way point, it looks like UPS and three others, but who they will be  and where they finish is still a mystery.  Such fun!

Now, I have to reread this to see if there are any typos.  Nah, here goes.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 23, 2009, 08:56:02 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 23, 2009, 11:27:35 AM
Games in the NWC tonight:

GFU @ Willamette
Linfield @ PLU
Pacific @ UPS

and the big game of the evening WW @ LC.

Predictions?


Willamette will beat GFU, either by a lot or a squeaker -- depends on which teams show up ;)  The crowd will be large & noisy (for both).
PLU will beat Linfield by 5
Pacific & UPS will be close, but UPS will win since it's at home.  (Pacific is a pretty tough team!)
L&C and Whitworth will be mean, ugly & possibly OT, with L&C winning by 1 or 2
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 23, 2009, 09:48:15 PM
Get after it tonight Logs...Good Luck!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 23, 2009, 09:51:06 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 21, 2009, 07:15:45 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 21, 2009, 01:23:55 PM
But the big question, Rat, is, why did Hayford leave the starters in since it was such a blowout?  Seems like it would've been a good night to let someone like Stockton play??

Simple answer...you don't put your subs against that press with 5+ minutes left because they can cause enough turnovers/force enough bad shots to get right back in a 16 point game. 

Oh, and its Hayford who is the second biggest d*** in the conference behind Bridgeland.  The only reason people tolerate him is because he's a fundraising machine and he wins...a lot.  He's actually a really nice guy off the court, just a little arrogant when it comes to his program at Whitworth

*This post in no way reflects the opinion or values of Whitworth University.  They are original property of the author (509)Rat himself. 

Rat, don't ever apologize for being honest or having an honest opinion!!  Fans aren't paid enough to be *** kissers!  Tough one for your Pirates tonight!  Hope it's not a tough night for the Bearcats!  George Fox can surprise you, though!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 24, 2009, 01:16:32 AM
All right, I'm an idiot.  Pacific gets blown out by UPS and the Bearcats lay a monstrous egg against George Fox. :'(

Stat of the game: WU 5-13 (38.5%) on free throws.  Also, the Loggers are going to have a field day with our perimeter defense.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 24, 2009, 02:19:31 AM
holy smokes what a night. ups destroys pac, LC gets WW by 12 and Willamette loses to fox by 5. definitely didnt see that last one coming!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 24, 2009, 02:25:44 AM
this years LC team is quite the enigma, they didnt look like they  even wanted to play when i saw them vs ups, then they run off 4 wins in a row before winning the the 1st half of a 3 day long game and eventually losing in a thriller against willamette, and now they bounce back with a huge win over WW. what LC team is gonna show tomorrow for a overmatched whitman squad, the jr high girls team that came to ups or the one that just took down WW? im also curious to see what they bring next friday against the loggers, but will leave that discussion for next week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 24, 2009, 02:34:25 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 24, 2009, 01:16:32 AM
Stat of the game: WU 5-13 (38.5%) on free throws.  Also, the Loggers are going to have a field day with our perimeter defense.

hmm they shoot 5-13 from the ft line and 11-22 from the 3. they shoulda asked the refs if they could step back behind the 3 point line without penalty to shoot their fts.

ive come to the conclusion that WU lost its homecourt advantage last year by getting new hoops. if i played there id petition to bring back the drawbridge style hoops.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 24, 2009, 03:03:06 AM
couple of interesting stats from the LC vs WW game:

LC 3-21 on 3s the 1st half, 10-17 in the 2nd, talk about the tale of 2 halves. 38 3s
LC 11-17 fts
WW10-17 fts
WW 6-22 on 3s including 2-10 in the 2nd half. ouch

last one that really caught my eye was 6 TOs for LC while WW had 15
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 24, 2009, 03:33:26 AM
Huge win for the Pios! Logshock you are correct. There are two Pio teams...just as there were last season. Consistency was the issue last season as well. You never know which LC team will show up. Even in the WW game it was a tale of two halves. But it is a big win!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 24, 2009, 12:25:12 PM
HEY! Roundball heads.  :P  Fair is fair. If we're going to predict LINFIELD will lose by 5 at PLU and they win an away game by 15, there should be a follow-up without me wagging a finger, yes?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 24, 2009, 12:28:59 PM
Great win by the Loggers last night!  They really rolled Pac up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 24, 2009, 12:32:25 PM
Tonights Games:

Whitman @ LC
GFU @ PLU
Linfield @ Pacific
Willamette @ UPS

the first round is almost over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on January 24, 2009, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2009, 12:28:59 PM
Great win by the Loggers last night!  They really rolled Pac up.

Yeah, but what's with my favorite NWC player Robert Krauel going 0-for-4 from the FT line and only hitting 59% for the season? No one leaves practice until they make 70 out of 100 free throws.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 24, 2009, 01:15:07 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 24, 2009, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2009, 12:28:59 PM
Great win by the Loggers last night!  They really rolled Pac up.

Yeah, but what's with my favorite NWC player Robert Krauel going 0-for-4 from the FT line and only hitting 59% for the season? No one leaves practice until they make 70 out of 100 free throws.

OxyBob

in his defense robert has been sick with the flu, not that it justifies 59% on the season, but ive never found FTs to be his strongest attribute
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 24, 2009, 01:33:33 PM
Okay, okay, Doc.  Let me get going on this slow Saturday morning.  Great win by Linfield.  PLU needs Dressler back badly (when? I was told he would be back by now), but even with him, Linfield wins that game.   I didn't think Linfield could go up there and win by 15, but there you go.  Kudos!

What is with this league?  Matchups seem to be everything this year except for UPS which just keeps on winning.  LC folds in the second half Monday and then comes out slow only to surge past WW last night.  Fox  beats Wil in a game nobody gave them a chance in.  Wil will most probably end up the first half of the season at 4-4, shooting for two last second wins against Linfield and WW that could have them 6-2.  Fox starts out winless and beats Linfield and Wil back to back, the second one in Salem.  Linfield beating WW and losing to Fox, and on and on.  Picking 50% of the wins on a gvien Fri or Sat night is looking pretty good right now.

Back to LC.  I got to finally see them play.  They played like everyone on the board said in the first half, dying as Pio would say (live or die by the 3) by the 3.  WW was effective in their offense and hit about every shot in roaring to 17-2 and 19-4 leads.  There defense was stifling.  LC was looking like a JV team against the Var for much of the first half, but crept back into it, down only 6 at the half.  Then Kollash and Hollins got hot, and the rest of the team followed with Berggren hitting 2 of 3 from the 3.  The defense shut down Nakamura and had a hand in Riley's face all night.  Jurich was a beast inside and was like almost perfect from the field.

I guess you would expect this from a team that plays 4 freshmen and a sophmore big minutes with only 2 seniors playing regularly.  That probably explains the Jekkyl and Hyde routine.

Great, no good, night for the OR teams against WA, going 2-1.  Pac could have made it a great night, but UPS is just too good. 

Will UPS run the table?  Probably not, but who is going to get them?  LC or Lin at home, Fox or WW at UPS, Wil at either place?  It will be tough for all of these teams to stop them!



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 24, 2009, 02:23:37 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 24, 2009, 01:33:33 PM
Back to LC.  I got to finally see them play.  They played like everyone on the board said in the first half, dying as Pio would say (live or die by the 3) by the 3. 

They will live and die by the three. But if you look at what really got them back in the game, it was their defense. Whitworth had four turnovers in the first two minutes of the second half. Hitting your shots helps too of course, but the only way to outscore a team by 18 points in one half is to force turnovers. LC scored 17 points off turnovers to WW's 6. That's the difference in the game right there. If the Pios can keep up that defense they can stay in second place.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 24, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 24, 2009, 01:33:33 PM
Will UPS run the table?  Probably not, but who is going to get them?  LC or Lin at home, Fox or WW at UPS, Wil at either place?  It will be tough for all of these teams to stop them!

Has a team ever gone undefeated in the NWC? Going back to 2000, the best I saw were one loss teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 24, 2009, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on January 22, 2009, 11:12:56 PM
Pacific was he only conference team the Loggers blew out a home last year.  I have a good feeling about the Pacific game, but I have a very, very bad feeling about Willamette.  They've stood up to the pressure very well the past few years...

Hope you're right about that "bad feeling" because the Bearcats really need a win after losing to Fox!  And, isn't it TIME for UPS to lose one?  They don't want their 1st loss this year to be in the first game of the newly constructed four team tournament. ;D

Whitman @ LC -- Whitman was scouting at LC last night, so they'll probably win.  LC will be hung over from the party after beating Whitworth! ;)
GFU @ PLU--Anybody's guess-- I'd say Fox over PLU
Linfield @ Pacific--Boxers will win unless they turn the lights up or Linfield practiced in the dark this week.
Willamette @ UPS--Tough, mean & ugly (Triple OT, anyone?)  It's UPS's turn to lose.  WIL in a close one.


LC could win tonight if #23 is on fire like last night & if #30 didn't get too banged up.  That was a rough, ugly game.  There's been a lot of blood & technicals at L&C lately!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 24, 2009, 02:59:10 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 24, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 24, 2009, 01:33:33 PM
Will UPS run the table?  Probably not, but who is going to get them?  LC or Lin at home, Fox or WW at UPS, Wil at either place?  It will be tough for all of these teams to stop them!

Has a team ever gone undefeated in the NWC? Going back to 2000, the best I saw were one loss teams.

Don't think so, Pio.  Usually the top team has one or two conference losses.  Probably because they all have to play each other twice.  Last year 3rd & 4th place had 7 losses each, so it's too early to count anyone out!  After this weekend, it's a NEW season again!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 24, 2009, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 24, 2009, 02:59:10 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 24, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 24, 2009, 01:33:33 PM
Will UPS run the table?  Probably not, but who is going to get them?  LC or Lin at home, Fox or WW at UPS, Wil at either place?  It will be tough for all of these teams to stop them!

Has a team ever gone undefeated in the NWC? Going back to 2000, the best I saw were one loss teams.

Don't think so, Pio.  Usually the top team has one or two conference losses.  Probably because they all have to play each other twice.  Last year 3rd & 4th place had 7 losses each, so it's too early to count anyone out!  After this weekend, it's a NEW season again!

There was no 4th place team last year.  There were four 3rd place teams last year (Willamette, Pacific, Linfield, and Lewis and Clark, Willamette won the tiebreaker to go to the post season tournament, the same way Whitworth won the tiebreaker over LC 2 years ago for the 1st seed, yet they were both 1st place and league champs). 

"Linfield @ Pacific--Boxers will win unless they turn the lights up or Linfield practiced in the dark this week."

Haha, hopefully my Boxers will dim the lights even more!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 25, 2009, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2009, 12:32:25 PM
Tonights Games:

Willamette @ UPS

:o

There's eight minutes left, and my well-coached team with decent players is down by 34.  Count me a believer in UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 25, 2009, 12:26:36 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 25, 2009, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2009, 12:32:25 PM
Tonights Games:

Willamette @ UPS

:o

There's eight minutes left, and my well-coached team with decent players is down by 34.  Count me a believer in UPS.

Did the Bearcats show up for the 2nd half?  I'm listening to it, but it sounds to me like UPS doesn't have to beat them, because they're doing it to themselves!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 25, 2009, 12:48:58 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 25, 2009, 12:26:36 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on January 25, 2009, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 24, 2009, 12:32:25 PM
Tonights Games:

Willamette @ UPS

:o

There's eight minutes left, and my well-coached team with decent players is down by 34.  Count me a believer in UPS.

Did the Bearcats show up for the 2nd half?  I'm listening to it, but it sounds to me like UPS doesn't have to beat them, because they're doing it to themselves!

I think it was a combination of both.  Willamette has looked bad - I mean bad the last two games.  To shoot 38.5% on free throws against GFU and then 39.3% against UPS is unacceptable.  Our perimeter defense was poor against Fox, and it seems like our entire defense was out of whack against the Loggers.

The Bearcats have exactly two days to get their heads on straight before they face a very dangerous Linfield team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 25, 2009, 03:38:51 AM
From the UPS website: The 11th-ranked Puget Sound Loggers became the first team in Northwest Conference history to start 8-0...that answers my question if any team has gone undefeated in conference..no team has done better than 7-1 in conference! I think the more UPS wins the more confident they get. They are starting to sound more and more like a top ten team to me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 25, 2009, 04:38:37 PM
Another great weekend by the Loggers...8-0. First team ever!  Great job guys! 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 25, 2009, 05:25:46 PM
According to the men's basketball history on the NWC website, Willamette finished 10-0 in the NWC in 1987-88.   So UPS is not the first school to go 8-0.  But the first in 21 years is still pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 25, 2009, 05:34:28 PM
Truly an accomplishment for the Loggers!  And what prize do they get?  Another matchup with the Pios at their place!  Should/could be a good matchup.  LC's coach is very good at getting his team up for a big game, especially at home.  Lets hope for a good game!

Whitman gave LC all they could handle last night.  UPS will still have some talent next year, but I see Whitman taking their place when Bridgeland gets a full year of recruiting under his belt.  UPS could fall to the middle of the pack next year while the eastern WA trip now becomes a nightmare. 

WW with 3 losses and in 3rd place at the turn.  When was the last time that happened?  I think they will be a very dangerous team in the second half.  Circle 2/13 at UPS and the last game of the regular season vs LC at Spokane.  Big games for the pirates.

I see Dressler is back at PLU.  He will help them down the stretch, and they are only 1 game out of the 4 seed. 

They bottom 4 teams with 2 wins (one will have 3 after Tues) are probably the best bottom 4 in league history.  Whit, PLU, Fox and Pac are capable of, and have, beating any of the top teams, and will play a big role in the playoff positioning.  Although there will probably be fewer upsets in the second half, there will be some.  Makes for a lot of interest in the last month of the season.

Somebody get the Loggers and make this a more interesting finish to the season (sorry Logger fans, but a walk away is no fun).   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 25, 2009, 06:00:06 PM
T-M-T,

Hare to argue with any of your points.  The second half is shaping up as a battle for second place and a first round home game in the playoffs.

Question for you and Pio20 - Could this season be Gaillard's blaze of glory?  Last season was a disaster.  With so many players back from the previous season's co-title, and the influx of new talent, L&C seemed torn apart from inside.

But Gaillard has clearly cleaned out whatever was dragging down the team.  Addition by subtraction.  Is this season his last?  Like I said, his chance to go out on a blaze of glory?  Maybe that is an added motivation (officially stated or not) for this group of players...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 26, 2009, 03:38:17 AM
I don't know.  LC is down to 11 players with two that never play.  The core of the 11 are underclassmen with only two seniors.  They start two frosh and a junior with the other two frosh getting signifcant minutes.  Saturday, according to the play-by-play, they had all 4 frosh and a senior on the court at one time.  Not the makeup for a last hurrah.  More of a building project that has gone very right this year. 

They definitely did not play well last year, but that happens sometimes.  I don't know what their problem was, but they just did not play well consistently.

It would seem with the four frosh and Kollash coming back next year, any coach would  want to work with that group and a couple of new recruits, but we will have to see.  They have an associate head coach, maybe they are grooming him to take over next year or the one thereafter. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 26, 2009, 03:39:28 AM
PS  Pio might have more information on this.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 26, 2009, 04:05:57 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 25, 2009, 06:00:06 PM
T-M-T,

Hare to argue with any of your points.  The second half is shaping up as a battle for second place and a first round home game in the playoffs.

Question for you and Pio20 - Could this season be Gaillard's blaze of glory?  Last season was a disaster.  With so many players back from the previous season's co-title, and the influx of new talent, L&C seemed torn apart from inside.

But Gaillard has clearly cleaned out whatever was dragging down the team.  Addition by subtraction.  Is this season his last?  Like I said, his chance to go out on a blaze of glory?  Maybe that is an added motivation (officially stated or not) for this group of players...

Well word was that when Jeff Christensen graduated Gaillard was going to hang em up. Christensen was the core player from the group that came in 2004 and was set to graduate in 2008, but then he transferred to Eastern Washington before the last season. I don't know if Gaillard will call it quits after this season. David Bergrren and Tyson Papenfuss will be the only two significant seniors lost after this season. There is still a lot of promise. Josh Kollasch has been the team's best player all around this season and will be a senior next year. Kyle Meeuwsen has shown promise as a athletic and long sophomore and freshmen James Hollins has shown he can be a big-time scorer. I think we will have to wait to see how the rest of the season goes. The past couple of seasons the Pios have been good (and gotten very close to the NCAA tourney). If the Pios can one way or another get to the tourney this season that might be Gaillard's blaze of glory.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 26, 2009, 07:18:50 PM
UPS jumps 2 spots in todays D-3 poll to #9.  Congrats to the Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 26, 2009, 07:37:32 PM
great weekend for the loggers. missed the game on firday, but caught saturday nights pummeling of the bearcats. ups looked very good, playing hard defensively, and patiently on offense. lunt moving williams off the point has been his best move this season besides changing the defensive principles. the ball gets A LOT more movement and opens things up offensively.

no let downs this year guys, lets take care of business the 2nd half of conference!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 27, 2009, 05:08:51 PM
Important games in the NWC tonight as teams try to position themselves to make a run at the conference playoffs.

PLU at Pacific - If the Lutes and Boxers are going to make themselves anything other than a spoiler, they pretty much need to start the second half with this win.

Linfield at Willamette - A battle of teams currently tied for fourth (this season the final playoff spot).  Normally I'd say I like the Bearcats at home, but they have been hard to figure this season -both home and away.   Linfield comes in after two road wins, and Willamette comes in off of two bad losses.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 27, 2009, 05:25:19 PM
Bad losses, but not a bad team.  The Bearcats will kick into gear tonight & win.  We'd like to see less TO's, more assists & some good defense.   I know Simon's on the bench (injured) but there are plenty of guys who can kick it up defensively.  It will be a good game.  Always is between the two kinds of Cats!

There's still 1/2 of the conference season to go, too soon to count out any teams.  UPS has a clear advantage since they haven't lost any, but this is NWC basketball, interesting to the (bitter) end!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 27, 2009, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 27, 2009, 05:08:51 PM
Important games in the NWC tonight as teams try to position themselves to make a run at the conference playoffs.

PLU at Pacific - If the Lutes and Boxers are going to make themselves anything other than a spoiler, they pretty much need to start the second half with this win.

Linfield at Willamette - A battle of teams currently tied for fourth (this season the final playoff spot).  Normally I'd say I like the Bearcats at home, but they have been hard to figure this season -both home and away.   Linfield comes in after two road wins, and Willamette comes in off of two bad losses.

Actually bbaddict, the PLU at Pacific game is a first round game, a make up game for the Jan. 9 cancellation.  So whoever wins it will be 3-5 for the 1st round, just 1 game out of the 4th and final playoff spot.  If my Boxers win I still have hope because they'll have 5 home games during the second round, and have already got the Eastern Washington swing, and games at UPS, and at LC out the way (as well as Fox).  If they can get healthy (don't know what is up with Bartlett - the PLU website says he may or may not return tonight) then maybe it can get interesting....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 27, 2009, 06:47:33 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 27, 2009, 05:25:19 PM
Bad losses, but not a bad team.  The Bearcats will kick into gear tonight & win.  We'd like to see less TO's, more assists & some good defense.

You forgot free throws.  Over the last two games, Willamette is 16-41 from the stripe!  To quote the great Schonz, "You've got to make your free throws!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 28, 2009, 03:49:56 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 27, 2009, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 27, 2009, 05:08:51 PM
Important games in the NWC tonight as teams try to position themselves to make a run at the conference playoffs.

PLU at Pacific - If the Lutes and Boxers are going to make themselves anything other than a spoiler, they pretty much need to start the second half with this win.

Linfield at Willamette - A battle of teams currently tied for fourth (this season the final playoff spot).  Normally I'd say I like the Bearcats at home, but they have been hard to figure this season -both home and away.   Linfield comes in after two road wins, and Willamette comes in off of two bad losses.

Actually bbaddict, the PLU at Pacific game is a first round game, a make up game for the Jan. 9 cancellation.  So whoever wins it will be 3-5 for the 1st round, just 1 game out of the 4th and final playoff spot.  If my Boxers win I still have hope because they'll have 5 home games during the second round, and have already got the Eastern Washington swing, and games at UPS, and at LC out the way (as well as Fox).  If they can get healthy (don't know what is up with Bartlett - the PLU website says he may or may not return tonight) then maybe it can get interesting....

Actually NWCer, the person you were quoting was Pineconefan, but I'm sure you didn't notice that since you were wrapped up in your own argument.   I was the one saying it's the NWC & there's still 1/2 a season to play (conference wise) so it's too EARLY to count anyone out!  So, what exactly is your argument with me?

Just curious why it's reassuring to you to "have already got the Eastern WA swing & UPS & LC games out of the way" since they all beat you by more than 15 points -- sometimes 20 or 30 and your conference wins have been by 10 or so, excluding the PLU game.

BearcatPress-- tough loss tonight, but they did get better on the free throws!   Linfield just played well tonight and they outsized us by a lot.   Really missed having Currie & Cantrell out there -- good defense & bigger bodies!  Still lots of games to win!!  Go Bearcats---keep at it & quit turning the ball over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 28, 2009, 04:00:47 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 26, 2009, 07:18:50 PM
UPS jumps 2 spots in todays D-3 poll to #9.  Congrats to the Loggers!

Wow, beating the Bearcats put UPS up two spots in the top 25?  Amazing.... ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 28, 2009, 05:05:37 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 28, 2009, 03:49:56 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 27, 2009, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 27, 2009, 05:08:51 PM
Important games in the NWC tonight as teams try to position themselves to make a run at the conference playoffs.

PLU at Pacific - If the Lutes and Boxers are going to make themselves anything other than a spoiler, they pretty much need to start the second half with this win.

Linfield at Willamette - A battle of teams currently tied for fourth (this season the final playoff spot).  Normally I'd say I like the Bearcats at home, but they have been hard to figure this season -both home and away.   Linfield comes in after two road wins, and Willamette comes in off of two bad losses.

Actually bbaddict, the PLU at Pacific game is a first round game, a make up game for the Jan. 9 cancellation.  So whoever wins it will be 3-5 for the 1st round, just 1 game out of the 4th and final playoff spot.  If my Boxers win I still have hope because they'll have 5 home games during the second round, and have already got the Eastern Washington swing, and games at UPS, and at LC out the way (as well as Fox).  If they can get healthy (don't know what is up with Bartlett - the PLU website says he may or may not return tonight) then maybe it can get interesting....

Actually NWCer, the person you were quoting was Pineconefan, but I'm sure you didn't notice that since you were wrapped up in your own argument.   I was the one saying it's the NWC & there's still 1/2 a season to play (conference wise) so it's too EARLY to count anyone out!  So, what exactly is your argument with me?

Just curious why it's reassuring to you to "have already got the Eastern WA swing & UPS & LC games out of the way" since they all beat you by more than 15 points -- sometimes 20 or 30 and your conference wins have been by 10 or so, excluding the PLU game.

BearcatPress-- tough loss tonight, but they did get better on the free throws!   Linfield just played well tonight and they outsized us by a lot.   Really missed having Currie & Cantrell out there -- good defense & bigger bodies!  Still lots of games to win!!  Go Bearcats---keep at it & quit turning the ball over.

You're right bbadict, meant to quote Pinecone there... My mistake... Wasn't any argument I was wrapped up in, just clarifying that tonight's game was a 1st round game and Pacific with a win would still be alive with Bartlett and 5 home games down the stretch...Still good to have those roadies out the way (to feed your curiosity), also played those without Bartlett, who came back tonight going 7 for 11 after a month plus out... will be a little different in the Grove down the stretch with him back... See what happens, as you said, and I'm correctly quoting you this time (actually a cut and paste) "it's the NWC & there's still 1/2 a season to play (conference wise) so it's too EARLY to count anyone out!"  :) ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 28, 2009, 11:21:41 AM
Willamette loses again at Cone...surprising, they are usually really tough there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 28, 2009, 11:23:23 AM
NWCer, are you predicting a Boxer run in the second half!!??  Can Lowery get them together now that Bartlett is back?  When was the last time Pacific was involved with any kind of postseason play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 28, 2009, 11:25:51 AM
NWC standings as of 1/28:

UPS   8-0
LC     6-2
WW  5-3
Lin    5-4
UW    4-5
Pac    3-5
PLU    2-6
GFU    2-6
Whit   2-6
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 28, 2009, 12:43:30 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 28, 2009, 11:23:23 AM
NWCer, are you predicting a Boxer run in the second half!!??  Can Lowery get them together now that Bartlett is back?  When was the last time Pacific was involved with any kind of postseason play?

I sure hope so!!  I think UPS is in a class by itself right now and is a likely loss, but the other 7 (Whitman, Whitworth, Lewis and Clark, and George Fox at home, and at Linfield and at Willamette) I think are winnable, no I'm not predicting they'll get all 7, but 9-7, or even 8-8 may get you the four seed this year.  If Bartlett can be close to himself down the stretch (had a decent line in 21 minutes last night), my Boxers are very tough at home - who knows what can happen....

2000 was the last time Logshow.... Pacific went to the NCAA tournament that year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 28, 2009, 01:08:34 PM
NWCer

With Bartlett back, they will have a chance in every game.  He is an all-conference palyer, although with the injury this year, he may not make it.  He is that good, though.  The one-two combo of Howe and Ross will be difficult for every team to deal with.  The loss of Carson is huge, though.  The other guards may not be able to sustain and they are the weak link for this team.  They have shown signs of playing well, and Mooney has shot the ball well at times, but they don't match up with other teams guards.  Let's see how the Boxers fare in the second half.

What is with Willamette?  They have looked very good at times, but are sure in a funk right now.  Where is the team that beat LC by shooting 60% from the field in the second half, or the team that was a shot away from beating WW?  With their lineup they should be challenging every team and be in the top of the standings.  Are they going through the same collapse that got LC last year when they had everybody back?

Watched the game on the internet last night against Linfield, and Linfield looked poised, especially down the stretch.  That is a new trait for Linfield.  They may be a big factor in the 2nd half.

Its OR vs WA this weekend with the OR teams all at home.  You know I am pulling for an OR sweep, but I don't think it can happen.  The other 3 teams could win, but I just don't see Fox taking down WW, and I am predicting a 2-2 Friday.

Go OR teams! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 28, 2009, 02:14:28 PM
You're right Trymeteam, my Boxers miss the younger Bartlett, he was having a great season...  What horrible luck for those brothers...  A lot of frosh left on the perimeter, but young guys tend to play better at home, so it's good that Pac has 5 at home down the stretch, the roadies will be at Linfield (a team they loss to by 1 with out Ross Bartlett), and at Willamette (a team they beat without Ross Bartlett and Jury) and at (PLU who they beat last night)...  So here's to hope....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 28, 2009, 02:24:38 PM
You seem like you know the league well TryMeTeam.... What guard groups though the league don't Pacific's match up with?  How do you compare them to other teams?  And just how much does not having Carson Bartlett hurt them (I think a lot, but like I said sounds like you really know the league)?  Interested to hear your thoughts....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 28, 2009, 11:02:27 PM
huge weekend coming up for the loggers. with 2 wins they will hold a 3 game lead over everybody else in the conference with only 6 games to go. that being said, this is a tough weekend playing at LC and at Linfield who has put together a nice little string of games and is always tough on their home floor
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 28, 2009, 11:46:16 PM
Well, I haven't seen all of the teams, but going from top to bottom, nobody matches up with UPS guards, there are so many of them.  LC's guards are pretty good even though two starters are frosh.  Kollasch is an-league candidate too, so they would and did give Pac trouble.  Pac's big man should give LC a lot of trouble though now that Bartlett is back.

Whitworth is a single guard team with the other guard really a forward, but WW is so good at the other positions to offset that.  Linfields guards should be a tough matchup for the Pac guards, now that Tesoro's play has picked up.  Olson is a tough matchup for everyone, and they too have a lot of good guards.

Haven't seen PLU or Fox but Dressler being back and Stackhouse playing well will be a tough matchup, and Atwater and Martin are a pretty good tandem too. 

Whitmans guards are very good.  Shaw is probably the quickest guard in the conference and will be very good in the coming years, and Faidley is a POY candidate.   I like Kunke and Erickson, and Babich is okay from Wil.

Mooney is a pretty good shooter as is Gaulton, but I don't see why Carter is a starter.  Jury is a small guard that is also young and needs some seasoning.  It certainly isn't a group that puts fear into the opponents.  Not bad, just not as good as some of the other teams.

Thus, I think most teams have better guards than Pac, but almost all of them (UPS, WW and Linfield are the exceptions) will have a very hard time matching up with Bartlett and Howe.  So if your guards can hold their own, Pac will have a chance to make the playoffs.  With Carson, they would have been a top 3 team, IMO.

Here's the test.  At the start of any game, you get to pick your team out of the 10 starters.  Who would you chose?  I don't think you would select Pac's guards too many times, but I don't know when you wouldn't pick Bartlett and Howe.

Not trying to pick a fight, just the way I see it.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 29, 2009, 12:07:15 AM
Good stuff TryMeTeam... Thanks...  Hopefully Lowery finds a way to make it work...  Should be a great second round for the conference...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2009, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: NWCer on January 29, 2009, 12:07:15 AM
Should be a great second round for the conference...

That you can take to the bank   8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 29, 2009, 12:54:32 AM
Hey NWCer -- it's OK!  I'm just crabby cuz my Bearcats are being unreliable!

"What is with Willamette?  They have looked very good at times, but are sure in a funk right now.  Where is the team that beat LC by shooting 60% from the field in the second half, or the team that was a shot away from beating WW?  With their lineup they should be challenging every team and be in the top of the standings.  Are they going through the same collapse that got LC last year when they had everybody back?"

My theory is that most of these guys were not starters until this year & with some injury issues, they've had to shift some positions around.   They also needed to reinstate Josh Erickson, who's very good, but I think it throws some of them off.  They're used to playing with Kunke or Thompson at point guard.  They'll get it soon--they have good coaches!  Seems like it's mostly issues of communication creating turnovers.  WHEN they start playing as a team again, they'll be a force to contend with.

The reason everyone is losing to UPS is simple.  They're very good & there's 18 of them!  Most teams have 12-15 on their roster and in WU's case, they have some injuries.  Sounds like that's true for Pacific & some others as well.  Just my humble opinion.   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2009, 02:42:35 AM
Baddict,

Is this Erickson's 7th year at WU?  I know he has had lots of injuries (aka: he probably has 60 year old knees)  I am kind of surprised he is still getting after it.  Do you know what his story is?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan on January 29, 2009, 04:39:49 PM
Long time reader, first time poster.
Here is a very NWC/Puget Sound biased look at this weeks Top 25 poll.
There are now two undefeated teams left in DIII play. St Thomas and Puget Sound. UPS' two losses have been to NAIA Warner Pacific (currently # 6 in Massey Ratings of NAIA DII) and NCAA DII St  Martins (currently #23 in Massey NCAA DII ratings). Both were close and on the road.
Two common opponants - Gustavus Adolphus - St Thomas beat them 70-49 earlier this month and Puget Sound beat them 102-79 in December and Macalester, St Thomas won 95-55 and Puget Sound beat them 87-51.
Puget Sound currently #5 in the Massey Ratings for DIII.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 29, 2009, 06:49:27 PM
loggerfan welcome to the board.

looks like someone already gave you an unnecessary ding to your karma. i thought things had gotten more friendly over on this board.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 29, 2009, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: loggerfan on January 29, 2009, 04:39:49 PM
Long time reader, first time poster.
Here is a very NWC/Puget Sound biased look at this weeks Top 25 poll.
There are now two undefeated teams left in DIII play. St Thomas and Puget Sound. UPS' two losses have been to NAIA Warner Pacific (currently # 6 in Massey Ratings of NAIA DII) and NCAA DII St  Martins (currently #23 in Massey NCAA DII ratings). Both were close and on the road.
Two common opponants - Gustavus Adolphus - St Thomas beat them 70-49 earlier this month and Puget Sound beat them 102-79 in December and Macalester, St Thomas won 95-55 and Puget Sound beat them 87-51.
Puget Sound currently #5 in the Massey Ratings for DIII.

Welcome loggerfan! Some thoughts on your post:

I'm not saying at all that UPS doesn't deserve their ranking...but if you use this philosophy, LC should at least be getting some votes in the top 25...their losses have come to UW-Whitewhater (#6 in the Massey ratings), UW-Oshkosh (#19 in the Massey ratings), Puget Sound (#5 in the Massey ratings), Portland State (#105 in the Massey ratings for DI), and then the delayed Willamette game (#54 in the Massey ratings). LC is #15 in the Massey ratings.
If they beat UPS this Friday I would hope they would get a few votes. Of course, we all know how hard it is to get into the top 25 when you don't start out the season there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2009, 09:21:23 PM
I think UPS started the season out of the Top 25
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan on January 29, 2009, 09:41:00 PM
Pio20:
I totally agree with you re: LC and at times other NWC teams. Tough to crack into that poll. Hope LC gets noticed but not due to a friday win this week!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 29, 2009, 10:20:19 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 29, 2009, 06:51:14 PM
If they beat UPS this Friday I would hope they would get a few votes. Of course, we all know how hard it is to get into the top 25 when you don't start out the season there.

As LogShow pointed out, Puget Sound started out the year outside of the Top 25. The Loggers were 31st in the preseason poll with 69 points, two places ahead of Whitworth (40 points). UPS is ninth in the latest poll, and if the Loggers get through the weekend unscathed they'll move up to at least eighth in next week's poll (since #7 Wheaton, which was only 25 points ahead of the Loggers in the current poll, lost last night to unranked North Central).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 29, 2009, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 29, 2009, 02:42:35 AM
Baddict,

Is this Erickson's 7th year at WU?  I know he has had lots of injuries (aka: he probably has 60 year old knees)  I am kind of surprised he is still getting after it.  Do you know what his story is?

It might be his 6th year at WU, but not playing basketball, obviously.  He played in 2003-04; was hurt in 2004-05, played & was listed as a sophomore 2005-06, then at that nasty triple OT game at UPS on 12/1/06 he re-injured his knee, played part of one more game at Linfield & was done for the 2006-07 season.  He's had several knee surgeries, but he's pretty tough!   Now, he's a grad student at WU and still has eligibility, so he's playing again.  He sat on the bench & helped coach the years he wasn't playing, so that's probably why you think he's been around so long.  The guy just loves basketball and wants to play as long as he can move & is eligible.  He's good.  I think some of the guys just thought he was done & it might be throwing off the rotation.   Just my opinion--I'm not in a position to actually know!

Loggerfan, I gave  you a +K as a welcome.  Have fun joining in -- we occasionally argue! My karma got dinged all to H*** on the football board by the wonderful Wildcat people.  It's OK---they have K, we had the winning FB team!!  They're just bitter.  Glad it's basketball season--friendlier people!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2009, 11:17:24 PM
Thanks Bballaddict!

Lol, yeah the NWC board is strictly a Linfield board...I dont even venture there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 30, 2009, 02:00:19 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 29, 2009, 10:20:19 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 29, 2009, 06:51:14 PM
If they beat UPS this Friday I would hope they would get a few votes. Of course, we all know how hard it is to get into the top 25 when you don't start out the season there.

As LogShow pointed out, Puget Sound started out the year outside of the Top 25. The Loggers were 31st in the preseason poll with 69 points, two places ahead of Whitworth (40 points). UPS is ninth in the latest poll, and if the Loggers get through the weekend unscathed they'll move up to at least eighth in next week's poll (since #7 Wheaton, which was only 25 points ahead of the Loggers in the current poll, lost last night to unranked North Central).

Fair enough...let's go with it's hard to break into the top 25 when you don't start the season with any votes. I'm sure it has happened. It just seems hard to do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 30, 2009, 02:27:45 AM
But does it really matter (if you're in the Top 25) if you win & produce results?  Better to be under-rated than over-rated!

Sure LogShow--it's great to be back on the basketball board, but let me tell you, it was fun being in their faces!!  Worth every ounce of lost K.

So, GO Bearcats---beat PLU and make it the start of a new winning streak.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 30, 2009, 02:47:49 AM
If UPS could put together a decent football season, I would be on that board too  :)

Big big games tomorrow!!! Looking forward to them.   8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 30, 2009, 02:56:51 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 30, 2009, 02:27:45 AM
But does it really matter (if you're in the Top 25) if you win & produce results?  Better to be under-rated than over-rated!

No but it definitely helps in terms of national recognition and earning more respect for the West Coast. I agree that it is better to be under-rated. The Pios never played well with the target on their back last season. That is actually what makes me think they can beat UPS Friday. If they go out and play to win instead of playing to not lose they might just do it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 30, 2009, 02:01:33 PM
You realize Pio20, that if L&C wins both games this weekend & UPS loses both, they'll be tied for 1st place?  Not saying it will happen, but it could.

Or if Linfield loses to UPS & Willamette wins over PLU, they'll be tied again for 4th place.

Whitworth has to travel to the scarey home court of Fox & the dark, eerie bat cave called Pacific, so who knows what their weekend holds?!

It's still a very close race for the top & will continue to be until the end of the regular season.  Then, with our conference playoff season, it all starts over for the top 4 teams.

What a great conference to be a hoops fan!  In the NWC, any team, any night in the NWC can win, depends on who shows up to want it more!  I've seen it happen over the years so many times that nothing surprises me.

And LogShow, your football team will put together a winning season -- I've seen them play.  So, do you suppose we'll be hearing from the Linfield people soon?  Or do they not know their way over from the FB board?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 30, 2009, 05:49:07 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 30, 2009, 02:27:45 AM
But does it really matter (if you're in the Top 25) if you win & produce results?  Better to be under-rated than over-rated!

Sure LogShow--it's great to be back on the basketball board, but let me tell you, it was fun being in their faces!!  Worth every ounce of lost K.

So, GO Bearcats---beat PLU and make it the start of a new winning streak.

Come on, you had some help over there on the football board! ;)

I'm really, really hoping the Bearcats can snap out of their funk against PLU.  I'm passing up tickets to see Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman on campus tonight - ah the sacrifices of being a reporter!

At any rate, here's a link to my recap of last weekend's games.  Tuesday night against Linfield was just too close to press time (paper comes out Wednesdays), so I'll have that along with PLU next week.

http://www.willamettecollegian.com/2009/01/28/bearcats-on-ropes-following-winless-weekend/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 30, 2009, 06:15:57 PM
Nice article BearcatPress.  One thing, though, George Fox is not & hasn't (recently) been a mediocre team.  They are a team whose W/L does not really show who they are and often acts as a spoiler for the top teams.   Another interesting note:  Even with the recent losses, if Willamette wins the rest of their games or even loses to UPS again, they still finish better than last year's season when they were in 3rd place.  There's still a lot of season left.  They just need to get it done & we know they can.

I know you were on the FB boards, too, but did they ding the heck out of your K?  Mine's now in a negative situation, which means people were dinkin at it even when I wasn't on the boards at all.  (Got kinda busy after football ended and disappeared for awhile -- so did my positive karma.)  They can take away my +K, but they can't take away the WINS WU had over Linfield and the Perfect 2009 Conference Season.

Looking forward to a double win tonight.  The Lady Bearcats need to finish some business they started with PLU in Tacoma.   The men's team has the tools they need, they just need to activate them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on January 30, 2009, 06:53:49 PM
I spend time on the hoops board. ;D Most of my posting happens in the early season when I get to see NWC teams down here in CA. It's kind of hard to comment once I quit seeing them. Enjoy the rest of the season. Stay warm and dry as we bask in our warm dought sunshinme. ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 30, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
I think the L&C game tonight is a dangerous one for the Loggers.  The Pios are playing well and UPS is due for a flat outing, one where that 8-0  or 10-0 run just doesn't come.  I'm optimistic because it's long been teams with fine, quick point guards that give the Loggers trouble.  Having seen the UPS-LC game in Tacoma, it looked like LC has nice players at the guard positions, but not as much quickness as they had with Tillery.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 30, 2009, 07:41:01 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 30, 2009, 06:15:57 PM
Nice article BearcatPress.  One thing, though, George Fox is not & hasn't (recently) been a mediocre team.  They are a team whose W/L does not really show who they are and often acts as a spoiler for the top teams.   Another interesting note:  Even with the recent losses, if Willamette wins the rest of their games or even loses to UPS again, they still finish better than last year's season when they were in 3rd place.  There's still a lot of season left.  They just need to get it done & we know they can.

I know you were on the FB boards, too, but did they ding the heck out of your K?  Mine's now in a negative situation, which means people were dinkin at it even when I wasn't on the boards at all.  (Got kinda busy after football ended and disappeared for awhile -- so did my positive karma.)  They can take away my +K, but they can't take away the WINS WU had over Linfield and the Perfect 2009 Conference Season.

Looking forward to a double win tonight.  The Lady Bearcats need to finish some business they started with PLU in Tacoma.   The men's team has the tools they need, they just need to activate them.

I agree that GFU is better than they've shown this year - and they've given the Bearcats fits for the last few years.  Perhaps "inconsistent" would have been a better way to describe them, but they are tied for last place.  Hopefully they can play spoiler in Spokane tonight.  I also agree that WU still has the potential to finish as a top three team in this league.  But we need to rediscover our defensive mojo immediately.

Frankly, I was impressed by the way we played against Linfield on Tuesday.  The Wildcats hit some big shots, Doty seems to have figured out how to sub effectively, and Tesoro has ice in his veins.  He would not be rattled.  But we looked significantly better on offense, and we hit most of our free throws!!

I was really hoping Schoettgen and Leslie would go off on Tuesday night so we could fire up a "Just like football!" chant, à la last season.  Even Speckman was chanting last year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 30, 2009, 08:56:32 PM
The UPS - LC game is a tough one to call.  PSfan is right, Tillery gave UPS fits with his quickness.  But the LC guards are good and Gaillard should have them ready tonight.  You just can't describe and be prepared for UPS, and 4 of LC guards had not seen "the press" before.  Now they have, and they now know what to expect.  But UPS is "top 10" good.  Lets go with the home (OR) team on this one.

Wi will take down PLU tonight.  It sounds like PLU had a bad game at Pac, and they may be on their annual downfall.  Players are playing big minutes and then few minutes.  Dickerson might be having players pack it in like when the last coach was there.

I would like to go with Fox over WW, but that is not going to happen.

Pac with Bartlett should be more than Whit can handle if the Pac guards can play anywhere near well.

So now I am 3-1 for the OR teams over WA, up from 2-2 earlier in the week.  And I am hoping for a 3-1 record tomorrow night.  More on that tomorrow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 31, 2009, 11:08:22 AM
big time win for the loggers. if they take care of business tonight against linfield they put themselves in a great position to win the conference. they have 4 in a row at home before finshing the last 2 on the road.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 31, 2009, 11:11:31 AM
just my opinion, its nice that LC broadcasts their games over the web, but the play by play announcer could use a little practice. i understand that he probably doesnt have a bunch of stats to look at infront of him, but there seemed like a lot of awkward dead time, even outside of the timeouts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 31, 2009, 11:32:50 AM
Huge win for the loggers!  They are in a great position.  Looks like Foster came to play last night.  We need that again tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 31, 2009, 11:42:16 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 31, 2009, 11:11:31 AM
just my opinion, its nice that LC broadcasts their games over the web, but the play by play announcer could use a little practice. i understand that he probably doesnt have a bunch of stats to look at infront of him, but there seemed like a lot of awkward dead time, even outside of the timeouts.

Was it a student broadcast?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 31, 2009, 11:45:21 AM
Tonights schedule:

GFU vs Whitman
Whitworth vs Pac
PLU vs LC
UPS vs Linfield
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 31, 2009, 12:20:57 PM
Excellent defensive performance last night by the Bearcats.  Holding any team to 26.7% shooting (including Josh Dressler's 0-13) is impressive.  As long as Willamette's offensive funk continues - missing wide open threes, turnovers, etc. - defense like that will continue to get wins.

Interesting note: Gordie started Erickson over Kunke at the point last night.  I'm curious to read what bbaddict thinks, but I thought that the offense flowed much better when Josh played, and the stats (eight assists to four turnovers) seem to agree.  Could this be a permanent change?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on January 31, 2009, 01:33:50 PM
Erickson is tough, you got to respect him for that...I have seen him play a few times over the years.  He may not be as quick as he use to be.  But I think he is a smart player and pretty efficient.  I wouldn't be surprised if Coach James made that a permenant change
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 31, 2009, 02:53:19 PM
Erickson was pretty quick last night -- almost forgot he ever injured anything!  I don't think Coach James has a "permanent" line-up -- he just uses the "tools" he needs to get the job done.  Wouldn't be surprised if Kunke deferred to Erickson's leadership role, as he's a sophomore & Erickson, well, we already had that discussion -- much experience.   That team is unstoppable when they play like a team as they did last night.   Less TO's, more assists, add defense and  working together --- Yeah!

Was great to see Thompson & Leslie on the floor a bit last night -- would like to see more of them.  The biggest difference wasn't who started at point guard, because they pretty much share that position, but having Tain Cantrell back in the game.   He played well -- what a beast on defense!

Great job, Bearcats!   Keep it up!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 31, 2009, 03:02:25 PM
Well that was basically a repeat of game one between the Pios and Loggers. Tight first half and then LC falls apart/UPS steps it up. Shooting 17% from 3-point land will never win a game. Made 2 of 18 in the second half. Those are the same Pios that went 9-7 in conference last year and consistently shot less than 30% from three. Not the Pios that had just won a big game against Whitworth by shooting 53% from the field in the second half, 59% from three, and getting to the line 14 times in the second half. The Pios got to the line 10 times in the whole game last night while shooting 35 threes and making 6 of them. Ugly ugly ugly. I am amazed we were in the game at all and actually led early in the second half!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 31, 2009, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 31, 2009, 02:53:19 PM
Erickson was pretty quick last night -- almost forgot he ever injured anything!  I don't think Coach James has a "permanent" line-up -- he just uses the "tools" he needs to get the job done.  Wouldn't be surprised if Kunke deferred to Erickson's leadership role, as he's a sophomore & Erickson, well, we already had that discussion -- much experience.   That team is unstoppable when they play like a team as they did last night.   Less TO's, more assists, add defense and  working together --- Yeah!

Was great to see Thompson & Leslie on the floor a bit last night -- would like to see more of them.  The biggest difference wasn't who started at point guard, because they pretty much share that position, but having Tain Cantrell back in the game.   He played well -- what a beast on defense!

Great job, Bearcats!   Keep it up!

Agreed - Cantrell and Babij had a huge defensive impact yesterday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 31, 2009, 07:12:12 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 31, 2009, 03:02:25 PM
Well that was basically a repeat of game one between the Pios and Loggers. Tight first half and then LC falls apart/UPS steps it up. Shooting 17% from 3-point land will never win a game. Made 2 of 18 in the second half. Those are the same Pios that went 9-7 in conference last year and consistently shot less than 30% from three. Not the Pios that had just won a big game against Whitworth by shooting 53% from the field in the second half, 59% from three, and getting to the line 14 times in the second half. The Pios got to the line 10 times in the whole game last night while shooting 35 threes and making 6 of them. Ugly ugly ugly. I am amazed we were in the game at all and actually led early in the second half!

Didn't sound that ugly on paper.   L&C kept the score closer than any other NWC team this season against UPS, didn't they?  Might be wrong, I know they killed the Bearcats.

Yeah, BearcatPress, Nick Babij is great, too!  He hasn't been MIA lately like Tain, so I overlooked him.  They played great defense last night--the team thing!  The combo of Kunke & Erickson is like having two QB's who work well sharing the time.  Josh would get too tired if he couldn't sit down, but has more experience, Robbie has youth & vitality on his side.   The Bearcats need both of them! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on January 31, 2009, 08:28:50 PM
OK--Logs have a contest tonight at Linfield that the could drop to a sound Wildcats team.  If they win away tonight, I think it's very likely that they run the table in the very tough NWC.  They aren't going to lose at home, and the road games are with teams they handled very easily.

Last night's game with LC was ODD!  Look at the # of fouls UPS committed--Logs usually have that many with 8 minutes to go in the first half. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 31, 2009, 08:45:23 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 31, 2009, 11:42:16 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on January 31, 2009, 11:11:31 AM
just my opinion, its nice that LC broadcasts their games over the web, but the play by play announcer could use a little practice. i understand that he probably doesnt have a bunch of stats to look at infront of him, but there seemed like a lot of awkward dead time, even outside of the timeouts.

Was it a student broadcast?

yeah im pretty sure it was
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on January 31, 2009, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 31, 2009, 03:02:25 PM
Shooting 17% from 3-point land will never win a game. Made 2 of 18 in the second half.

Not the Pios that had just won a big game against Whitworth by shooting 53% from the field in the second half, 59% from three, and getting to the line 14 times in the second half.

17% won't keep u in many games, but 59% certainly will. LC gets my vote for the Jekyl and Hyde award
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 01, 2009, 12:56:52 AM
looks like the loggers and linfield are in quite a battle. lets go loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 01, 2009, 01:09:40 AM
its a final UPS 87 Linfield 78! way to go guys, very impressive. always tough to win down there and you pulled out a close one
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 01, 2009, 03:10:18 AM
Pios win over PLU tonight. Shot poorly again but 22 free throw attempts in the second half allowed them to get the W. Kollasch did not play as he was sidelined with the stomach flu. The same illness was the cause for his 2 point performance against UPS last night. The broadcasts are pretty painful but can't blame them for trying.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 01, 2009, 03:35:44 AM
NWC Standings through tonight:

                       NWC       Overall
Puget Sound     10-0         17-2 
Whitworth         7-3           15-4
Lewis & Clark    7-3            13-6    
Willamette        5-5          9-8    
Linfield            5-5            7-12    
Pacific (Ore.)    3-7            8-10    
George Fox         3-7          7-12    
Whitman            3-7           7-12
Pacific Lutheran    2-8            8-11

Looks like UPS has the conference title wrapped up bearing an unthinkable meltdown. One would think LC and Whitworth would be two more teams that make the conference playoffs with Willamette or Linfield pulling in the fourth spot...but who knows in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2009, 01:13:50 PM
Looks like UPS was actually challenged last night.  And this was without their best player for most of the night.  Looks like Foster got in early foul trouble and wasn't ever able to get in the flow of the game.  It was a great opportunity for others to step up.  I don't mind having tough games like that, it's good to get challenged.  Of course more comfortable wins are good too   :)

Congrats on the great start Logs, keep it going!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2009, 01:28:11 PM
UPS doesn't have to long to enjoy this weekend...just looked at the schedule and saw that they host PLU on tuesday.  Time to get back at it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2009, 01:41:16 PM
I just finished reading all the rest of the NWC write-ups for last night...Was anyone at the GFU/Whitman game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 01, 2009, 03:14:14 PM
LogShow, are you talking to yourself again?   ;D

Pacific gave Whitworth a pretty good run for their money as well.  That game could've gone either way.

Was surprised at the UPS scores this weekend.   L&C without Kollasch is a different team, yet they stayed with them.  And I thought the UPS/Linfield game was going to be an OT thriller.  (Course I was listening on the radio, so who knows what the real story is?!?)  Almost makes UPS seem vulnerable -- one can always hope!

So, Logs -- don't you want to have PLU win just to make the NWC even more interesting?  Just checkin!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2009, 04:16:48 PM
What surprised you about the UPS scores, that they were closer games?  Any road game in the NWC is usually going to be pretty tough.  And Linfield has always played UPS tough down there in McMinville.  Of course UPS is vulnerable on the road...every team is.  But they have the next 4 games at home in the friendly confines of Memorial Fieldhouse  8)

Lol, more interesting...it's plenty interesting for me with UPS having a 3 game lead and prefer to keep it that way!  UPS hasn't lost to PLU for 5.5 years...that's 11 straight.  And I am sure they aren't planning on ending that streak anytime soon.  The race for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th will be plenty interesting for me to watch...and I am sure it will be for you too bballaddict   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 01, 2009, 04:17:49 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on January 31, 2009, 08:28:50 PM
Last night's game with LC was ODD!  Look at the # of fouls UPS committed--Logs usually have that many with 8 minutes to go in the first half. 

Quote from: logshock101 on January 31, 2009, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on January 31, 2009, 03:02:25 PM
Shooting 17% from 3-point land will never win a game. Made 2 of 18 in the second half.

Not the Pios that had just won a big game against Whitworth by shooting 53% from the field in the second half, 59% from three, and getting to the line 14 times in the second half.

17% won't keep u in many games, but 59% certainly will. LC gets my vote for the Jekyl and Hyde award

Hope I got this quote thing right.  Still a rookie at this!

Couldn't make the UPS-LC game, but I spoke with my "biddy" who gave me an earful.  He's a LC fan, so I take it with a grain of salt, but he said the officiating was horrible.  The officials let the Loggers beat the crap out of the Pios and just wouldn't call any fouls.  10 team fouls, 5 in each half was ridiculous.  The UPS pressure, er...fouls!... just wore the younger LC players down.  Biddy said one of the officials ever started yelling at one of the assistant LC coaches after the game. 

And pressure probably had an effect on the Pios shooting, although they are capable of shooting under 20% in any game, and have been around that figure most games.   

They also seemed to struggle against PLU the next night being down by about 15 points early in the game.

Looks like that game also took its toll on UPS last night and it looks like they almost took a hit in McM.  Nice job by the Cats! 

Its all about 2nd place now.  My take is UPS will run the table.  You have to give Foster POY, don't you?   

It is a 5 horse race now.  The bottom 4 teams will have to be aided by a major freefall by the 3 loss teams for one of them to fall out, and for Linfield and Wil, one is likely to fall, but no way both.  I see them battling down to the final weekend for the last spot.

I thought GF would get creamed by Whitman with Whits guards running all over Fox.  And Shaw pretty much did.  Faidley not starting?  Could be turmoil in Walla Walla.  Nothing new for a Bridgeland team.  Another nice job by an OR team!

Balanced scoring for WW against Pac.  And the Pac guards get my kudos for playing well against a top team, especially after I dissed them so badly earlier this week.  It looks like WW has gone to fewer players like usual down to 7 with 6 of them scoring 11,12,13,14,15,16.  Hard to be more balanced than that.

I don't think you can call it a game on Tues.  1st versus 9th at 1st home court who is #9 in the nation, probably #8 or higher tomorrow.  Almost doesn't sound fair.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 01, 2009, 04:40:56 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 01, 2009, 04:17:49 PM
I don't think you can call it a game on Tues.  1st versus 9th at 1st home court who is #9 in the nation, probably #8 or higher tomorrow.  Almost doesn't sound fair.

looking at the results from this past week, loggers could move as high as #6 because several teams ranked ahead of them dropped games.

which makes me wonder...what's the highest an NWC team has ever reached in the polls?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 01, 2009, 05:12:22 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 01, 2009, 04:40:56 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 01, 2009, 04:17:49 PM
I don't think you can call it a game on Tues.  1st versus 9th at 1st home court who is #9 in the nation, probably #8 or higher tomorrow.  Almost doesn't sound fair.

looking at the results from this past week, loggers could move as high as #6 because several teams ranked ahead of them dropped games.

which makes me wonder...what's the highest an NWC team has ever reached in the polls?

In the recent history (since the D3hoops.com Top 25 has been out) I think that the highest a NWC team has reached in the poll was UPS, who made it all the way to #3 in the country...I think that in 04-05 if I am not mistaken.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 01, 2009, 08:12:02 PM
I'll bite....
addict, I do not recall dinging you and I have no idea who at LINFIELD on Post Patterns would, this past season, unless you needed it like for your posts I'm responding to.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 01, 2009, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 01, 2009, 08:12:02 PM
I'll bite....
addict, I do not recall dinging you and I have no idea who at LINFIELD on Post Patterns would, this past season, unless you needed it like for your posts I'm responding to.

Yeah, and they were denying it on the FB board too until the Webmaster called em on it.   Most of my +k went away when I wasn't even on the boards, so I'm pretty sure it didn't have to do with my comments.  Not saying you did anything, but who else is on the NWC football boards?  Pretty much Linfield & Willamette, this year, and BearCatPress wouldn't do something like that.   ;D

No big deal.  I'll take wins over +k any day of the week!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 02, 2009, 12:28:12 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 01, 2009, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 01, 2009, 08:12:02 PM
I'll bite....
addict, I do not recall dinging you and I have no idea who at LINFIELD on Post Patterns would, this past season, unless you needed it like for your posts I'm responding to.

Yeah, and they were denying it on the FB board too until the Webmaster called em on it.   Most of my +k went away when I wasn't even on the boards, so I'm pretty sure it didn't have to do with my comments.  Not saying you did anything, but who else is on the NWC football boards?  Pretty much Linfield & Willamette, this year, and BearCatPress wouldn't do something like that.   ;D

No big deal.  I'll take wins over +k any day of the week!

the day ups goes over.500 without a schedule softer than a pillow ill venture over to the fb board
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 02, 2009, 02:05:08 AM
That's good logshock101 -- you're a saner man than I!  But, seriously, all the boards should be a forum for anyone who wants to participate (by the rules)!   I'm just here to say that the basketball board is a warmer, friendler place -- at least until playoffs! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 02, 2009, 03:39:07 PM
Hey I am happy as long as UPS keeps winning   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 02, 2009, 07:04:54 PM
"I don't think you can call it a game on Tues.  1st versus 9th at 1st home court who is #9 in the nation, probably #8 or higher tomorrow.  Almost doesn't sound fair."

So TrymeTeam, you trying to jinx your team?  Any night, any team in the NWC . . .   That's just how the system works.  The games have to be played.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on February 03, 2009, 12:01:09 AM
I heard that in that Saturday night game between G Fox and Whitman that Bridgeland had a meltdown at the end of the game and got thrown out of the game.  I guess he gave an entertaining and long-winded exit off the court once the ejection happened
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2009, 12:07:15 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on February 03, 2009, 12:01:09 AM
I heard that in that Saturday night game between G Fox and Whitman that Bridgeland had a meltdown at the end of the game and got thrown out of the game.  I guess he gave an entertaining and long-winded exit off the court once the ejection happened

Yeah thats what the write up said, interesting.  I wonder what happened?  He did have some good antics while at UPS too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 03, 2009, 12:11:10 PM
Trust me BBaddict, this game does not need to be played.  UPS IS "#6 in the nation" good.  That is hard for me to say, but it is true (and congrats to the Loggers!  And PLU is in a state of turmoil right now.  I heard that Dressler is going to transfer to LC where his 0-13 shooting will fit right in (sorry Pio20, but you have to agree with that one :)).  Their coach seems to be at a loss as to what to do.  They have good players, but they just can't seem to put anything together.   And their only league wins are against the other 7 loss teams.

I usually go wth the "any team in the NWC can beat any other team on a given night" theory, but I just can't go there with this one.   

Prediction:  With Whitman playing their final six games at home and teams having to play WW on the other half of those weekend games, there will be some upsets in Walla Walla these last three weeks.

Question:  With Bridgeland's explosion/ejection, BCPress's critique/complaint earlier this season, and my buddy's rant last weekend, does the officiating in the NWC suck or is it just sour grapes?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 03, 2009, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 03, 2009, 12:11:10 PM
I heard that Dressler is going to transfer to LC where his 0-13 shooting will fit right in (sorry Pio20, but you have to agree with that one :)).

haha I definitely do. Not so much the 0-13..but the 0-5 from three point land definitely qualifies to be one of the top shooters on the Pio squad.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 03, 2009, 02:28:10 PM
Pretty good post TMT...entertaining to say the least.  The officiating is just flat out bad.  Your biddy and everyone else has a right to complain.  But I don't think it's going to get any better.  It's kind of a tough luck sort of thing.  There just is no consistency, and that is very frustrating for players, coaches, and fans. 

UPS is playing very well...and I do think they will get PLU and GFU.  I know it's looking a bit forward, but I am really worried about a let down against WW next Friday.  They will be gunning for us no doubt.

6th in the nation is great!  But UPS needs to keep winning...they by no means have a Pool C bid yet, and really don't want to have to depend on that.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 03, 2009, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 03, 2009, 01:06:45 PM
Not so much the 0-13..but the 0-5 from three point land definitely qualifies to be one of the top shooters on the Pio squad.

haha, oh man that is some good stuff right there
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 03, 2009, 04:46:20 PM
congrats on the #6 ranking loggers. now go out and prove it.

memorial fieldhouse is gonna be rockin tonight!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 03, 2009, 05:36:23 PM
Show:

You don't have to worry about WW either.  They are a good team, but nowhere near UPS or what they have been in the near past.  They will take 2nd place overall, but that is because LC is young and shooting so poorly.  But UPS has the "guard" advantage over them.  Take Nakamura out of the game, which they will, and who brings the ball up under that pressure.  Use up the shooting guards to do it and they won't have enough "legs" left to make their shots.  UPS fans will be supporting their team with the sixth man frenzy.  All the advantages go to UPS. Be worried as a fan, but as a non-fan let me tell you you have little to worry about.   

The officiating also hurts our league when the national playoffs come around. 

IMO, they have a C Pool bid locked up.  They could lose two games over the rest of the season and playoffs and still get a bid.  But that is not going to happen, so don't worry about that either.   Say they lose one league game and the first playoff game (worst case two more loss scenerio).  That would make them 5-2 over the last games and 22-4 overall.   That is 85%. and still in the top 15 or 25.  They could probably lose 3 of their last games and make it, and that surely is not going to happen.  Rest easy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 03, 2009, 07:01:37 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 03, 2009, 05:36:23 PM
IMO, they have a C Pool bid locked up.  They could lose two games over the rest of the season and playoffs and still get a bid.  But that is not going to happen, so don't worry about that either.   Say they lose one league game and the first playoff game (worst case two more loss scenerio).  That would make them 5-2 over the last games and 22-4 overall.   That is 85%. and still in the top 15 or 25.  They could probably lose 3 of their last games and make it, and that surely is not going to happen.  Rest easy.

i know this wasn't addressed to me, but i thought id add my 2 cents: ups is sitting in a great position to pick up a pool c bid, but that is largely determined by the criteria that one of the hall of famers (i can;t remember which one, sorry) mentioned a couple of pages back. however, part of what goes into the selection is the regional rankings, anything over 2-3 in region losses and you might not be in the top 8 or however many it is for the west region. i bring this up, because its possible (not likely) ups could have a slip up, lose to good team like WW and then also possibly get bounced in the NWC tourney and end up with 3 in region losses, which would probably still be good enough. but knowing your in and cutting downt the nets is a lot more fun then depending on some committee
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 03, 2009, 09:09:28 PM
Seriously, no one from the Left Coast should ever presume that they'd get a Pool C bid (except maybe Women's hoops) because it just never shakes out that way!  AQ is the only way to go.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 04, 2009, 01:28:44 AM
very true, they have handed out a couple at large bids over the past couple of seasons to sciac teams, which always came to the nwc and got worked
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 04, 2009, 01:33:49 AM
loggers picked up the win tonight in possibly the fastest game in nwc history totaling 1 hour 20 minutes. thats 40 minutes of hoops plus 15 for halftime. leaving a grand total of 25 minutes of dead ball time. there was a total of 16 fouls. 7 by plu and 9 by ups. talk about just letting them play
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 03, 2009, 07:01:37 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 03, 2009, 05:36:23 PM
IMO, they have a C Pool bid locked up.  They could lose two games over the rest of the season and playoffs and still get a bid.  But that is not going to happen, so don't worry about that either.   Say they lose one league game and the first playoff game (worst case two more loss scenerio).  That would make them 5-2 over the last games and 22-4 overall.   That is 85%. and still in the top 15 or 25.  They could probably lose 3 of their last games and make it, and that surely is not going to happen.  Rest easy.

i know this wasn't addressed to me, but i thought id add my 2 cents: ups is sitting in a great position to pick up a pool c bid, but that is largely determined by the criteria that one of the hall of famers (i can;t remember which one, sorry) mentioned a couple of pages back. however, part of what goes into the selection is the regional rankings, anything over 2-3 in region losses and you might not be in the top 8 or however many it is for the west region. i bring this up, because its possible (not likely) ups could have a slip up, lose to good team like WW and then also possibly get bounced in the NWC tourney and end up with 3 in region losses, which would probably still be good enough. but knowing your in and cutting downt the nets is a lot more fun then depending on some committee

That was me.

Today is the day that the first regional ranking is supposed to come out. Pat'll post it on d3hoops.com as soon as it's released, so look for it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 05, 2009, 01:31:53 AM
im a little surprised that the loggers are #4 with 0 in region losses. also surprised that st thomas wasn't #1. WIAC still has another round of conference to play, shold bring a little more clarity there. props to WW with the #7 ranking as well
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2009, 02:15:38 AM
Been gone for a day or two...wanted to say congrats to the loggers, 11-0 is great!  Keep it up!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2009, 02:26:34 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 05, 2009, 01:31:53 AM
im a little surprised that the loggers are #4 with 0 in region losses. also surprised that st thomas wasn't #1. WIAC still has another round of conference to play, shold bring a little more clarity there. props to WW with the #7 ranking as well

Shock,

I am not all that surprised for a few reasons.  First though I do have to say I was hoping for the Loggers to be a bit higher...but if they keep winning, it will definately take care of its self.

I guess I am a bit surprised to see St. Thomas to be ranked lower, since they are undefeated on the season and more importantly in region.  But I think that their strength of schedule is what is hurting them.  The WIAC has traditionally been viewed as a power conference.  That is tough to argue with the success of UWSP (which all of us at UPS know about) and with UW-Platt winning a few national titles back when Bo Ryan was the coach.  So thats fine.  As far as 3 WIAC teams being ranked higher then UPS, I am a bit skeptical about...especially with UPS not having an in-region loss.  However you were right about things in the WAIC shaking out.

Here is a comment from a UWSP poster....
QuoteThere are at least 5 more losses to be handed out among the 3 WIAC teams. The three teams have their second round games, with UWW hosting SP and UWP and SP hosting UWP in a rematch of last years regular season finale, with the venue swapped and likely conference championship implications, and the two teams that dont win the WIAC tourney will pick up another loss in the tourney by default.

WW may be on the cusp if they drop the two games to UWP and SP and then again in the tourney. That gives them 6 losses and puts their record vs. ranked opponents worse, too. This situation would most certainly solidify UWP and UWSP, even if both would also be upset in the conf tournament, even if UWSP beats UWP.

If WW wins one of these two, I think they probably are in, as long as they don't drop a game to another WIAC team and UWP or UWSP wins the tourney. Actually, the assumption is that UWW, UWP and UWSP wont drop a game except to each other... if they do, then they might slip out.


In the end it will probably be St. Thomas, if they keep winning or maybe lose one game, and the WIAC champion, and UPS.  I am not sure on the order as a lot depends of how these last few weeks play out...and the conference tournaments.  If UPS keeps winning, I can definately see them ending up with the #1 west region ranking...but if they slip...and I am thinking inparticularly in the NWC tourney, then they will probably end up 2nd or more likely 3rd.

This is all just my humble opinion though... :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 05, 2009, 07:50:53 PM
i guess i just figured that having an undefeated regional record would weigh a little more heavily than strength of schedule, but whatever we just gotta take care of business
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2009, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 05, 2009, 07:50:53 PM
i guess i just figured that having an undefeated regional record would weigh a little more heavily than strength of schedule, but whatever we just gotta take care of business

I totally agree.  But you are right, all UPS can do is just keep winning...and I think they will
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 06, 2009, 12:21:01 PM
Today's schedule of NWC games:


LC @ GFU
Linfield @ Whitman
Pacific @ PLU
Willamette @ WW


UPS gets to just sit back and watch.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 06, 2009, 01:21:50 PM
I think WW is in a good position. Everyone has kind of forgotten about them with their losses to UPS and LC and all the national attention UPS is getting. Yet they are laying low at 15-4 and 7-3 in conference and ranked in region.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 06, 2009, 02:31:45 PM
i think WW will handle Willamette tonight, but i think they're gonna be in for a war tomorrow against a much improved linfield team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 06, 2009, 05:28:33 PM
Predictions for tonight:

L&C 70, George Fox 65
Linfield 88, Whitman 87
Pacific 80, PLU 70 (didn't they just play this game?  :))
Whitworth 67, Willamette 61
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 06, 2009, 05:38:41 PM
Linfield 85 Whitman 75 - Linfield is playing well...

Whitworth 79 Willamette 65 - Whitworth just too solid at home

Lewis and Clark 76 George Fox 74 - LC squeezes out a close one

Pacific 80 Pacific Lutheran 70 - Yes they just did play this game last Tuesday the 27th, it was a makeup game from the Jan 9th cancellation...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 07, 2009, 03:28:05 AM
The Pios beat George Fox tonight 63-49. Sounds like a riveting game  ;D Josh Kollasch is still out suffering from an illness which started affecting him in the UPS game. Not sure the seriousness of it but he may be out a while. The Pios shot horribly again in the first half, but as it seems to be in most of their wins they shot very well from three in the second half and went to the free throw line a ton which made up for poor overall shooting. Also marks win number 500 in the NCAA for Coach Gaillard. He has only had 4 losing seasons in 19 at LC. Pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 07, 2009, 11:52:20 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 07, 2009, 03:28:05 AM
The Pios beat George Fox tonight 63-49. Sounds like a riveting game  ;D Josh Kollasch is still out suffering from an illness which started affecting him in the UPS game. Not sure the seriousness of it but he may be out a while. The Pios shot horribly again in the first half, but as it seems to be in most of their wins they shot very well from three in the second half and went to the free throw line a ton which made up for poor overall shooting. Also marks win number 500 in the NCAA for Coach Gaillard. He has only had 4 losing seasons in 19 at LC. Pretty impressive.

Congrats to Coach Gaillard, he has had great success as a coach
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 07, 2009, 11:58:54 AM
Results from last night's action in the NWC:

LC over GFU  63-49....49 points? 

Linfiled contiunes with pick up wins with a 76-68 vic over Whitman

WW plays well down the stretch and pulls away from Pacific 77-65

Willamette contiunes it's freefall dropping one to the Lutes  73-64
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 07, 2009, 12:01:26 PM
First the good news.

I got to see the LC - Fox game.  LC dominated pretty much the whole game, but forced shots and missed layups kept  Fox in the game.  When they started hitting in the second half, they just pulled away.  Their young players played well with Drake Green playing his best game of the season, according to Biddy.  Holding even lowly Fox to 49 points, pretty darn good!  They will have to rely on defense if the are to continue to keep winning. 

Nice job by Gaillard!  Half way to the Summit!  (Ohh, sorry about that one, I just couldn't resist).

The bad news..

Biddy said he spoke with some of the LC players and heard that Kollasch is out for the season with an illness that is very serious.  Shouldn't be life threatening, but you never know.  He has been in the hospital all week.  What a loss for the Pios!  He was out most of last season with various injuries and now this.  Send your thoughts and prayers his way!

What got into PLU?  Pac isn't one of the better teams in the league (sorry NWCer), but they just handed PLU a pretty ugly loss in the dim gym.  Dressler doesn't start and they win.  Huh?

Nice win for Linfield putting them a game up on the race for the #4 seed.  Now Wil has to keep up by going to Whitman to get a win.  It won't be easy, but Whit is down right now, Wil had a tough game last night, and Wil really needs this game to stay in the race, assuming Linfield losses to WW. 

If Lin can pull off the upset and win like they did before, they will take the #4 seed assuming they don't get upset by bottom teams.  They would only have LC as a "should lose" game and that is now not a given with Kollasch out. 

Cinch them up boys!  The stretch run is here!

PS  No predictions on tonights games.  I just suck too much at that.  Go OR teams! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 07, 2009, 01:24:44 PM
Tonight's NWC schedule:

GFU @ UPS
UPS always has a great offense, but defense is there this year too.  This one will get out of hand early.  GFU will probably score more then 49 points though.  84-60

Willamette @ Whitman
Interesting game...Willamette is in a must win to stay in the playoff hunt.  They should take care of business.  87-79

LC @ Pacific
Tough game to call.  I am going to give the edge to Pacific with their cave gym and Kollash out.  LC's young team will keep it close, but won't have enough.  70-65

Linfield @ WW
Probably the biggest game of the night.  WW wants/needs to hang on to that second place spot.  Linfield is playing very well right.  Vegas has the line as pick 'em.  Guess I will call the unlikely upset.  Linfield over WW in a very close one, 81-80.


Come on TMT, predictions are fun...you know you want to.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2009, 01:56:16 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 17, 2009, 07:02:04 PM
... UPS is obviously loaded and has plenty of seniors, could be their year. In fact, maybe such a good year that they could get to NWC final, lose and get an at large without a doubt.  Could happen very easily.
This is shaping up to actually be possible.  UPS #6 and #4 in regional rankings.  Can't wait to watch the games NEXT weeekend.  I don't expect tonight to be that close.  Its payback time.  WW by 18.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 07, 2009, 01:59:43 PM
Tonight's NWC schedule:

GFU @ UPS
I know it won't happen....but I have to: GFU upsets the number 6 team in the nation 56-55!  :)

Willamette @ Whitman
Willamette destroys Whitman 82-63

LC @ Pacific
If the Pios continue to realize that they need to get to the free throw line to win they will. 30 or more FTAs=Pios win. Papenfuss needs to control the paint. LC wins another ugly shooting game 54-47.

Linfield @ WW
WW avenges it's loss to Linfield and pulls away in the final minutes 78-70.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 07, 2009, 02:08:57 PM
I wish I knew what's gotten into the Bearcats.  It's like the entire team is in a shooting slump.

@ Pacific: 38.9%
vs. GFU: 40.3%
@ UPS: 40.3%, 9.1% on threes
vs. Linfield: 41.7%, 27.8% on threes
vs. PLU: 46.4%, but 8.3% on threes
@ Whitworth: 35.1%, 25% on threes

Average: 40.35%, 17.55% on threes.

We've got to take care of business at Whitman tonight.  I'm also planning on rooting for Pacific, Whitworth, and George Fox (why not?!).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 07, 2009, 02:37:48 PM
I don't think Whitworth can count on only payback or revenge tonight in the Fieldhouse.  I didn't see the loss at Linfield, but when I look at the box score I don't see the kind of stats (bad shooting or free throw night) that just points to an "off night" at Linfield.

I do see a lot of turnovers (18) and a rebound deficit, that points out Linfield was able to take advantage of certain match ups.  Unless the Pirates address those match ups, they could easily suffer a repeat of the first meeting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2009, 04:05:18 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 07, 2009, 02:37:48 PM
I don't think Whitworth can count on only payback or revenge tonight in the Fieldhouse.  I didn't see the loss at Linfield, but when I look at the box score I don't see the kind of stats (bad shooting or free throw night) that just points to an "off night" at Linfield.

I do see a lot of turnovers (18) and a rebound deficit, that points out Linfield was able to take advantage of certain match ups.  Unless the Pirates address those match ups, they could easily suffer a repeat of the first meeting.
Let me put it this way, WW is the better team.  They are at home.  They should win this game based on conference results and stats..Vegas line has WW by 13.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 07, 2009, 05:33:57 PM
Pio20's "know it won't happen but" pick of GF over UPS is crazy, even when qualified like that.  This year's Loggers just aren't going to lose a home game to what we have to say is a considerably weaker opponent in Fox this year.  There are too many tough-minded guys on the floor for UPS for this to happen--especially on a one game weekend. 

It's interesting to track the NCAA stuff, since I can see the Loggers dropping one at home to WW, say in the NWC tournament final.  But I'd say if a Loggers team that's this good with 1 or 2 losses to D3 competition isn't a lock for the D3 tournament there's a problem with the rules.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 08, 2009, 12:33:38 AM
Not sure why I bother but, went to the LINFIELD home site to listen to the game tonight...."not available."

Tough to keep fans interested in that b-ball program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2009, 12:49:59 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 08, 2009, 12:33:38 AM
Not sure why I bother but, went to the LINFIELD home site to listen to the game tonight...."not available."

Tough to keep fans interested in that b-ball program.
Or you could have gone to the WW site and streamed Live Video, but I know thats not your point.  BTW did you?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 08, 2009, 02:55:45 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 07, 2009, 01:24:44 PM
Come on TMT, predictions are fun...you know you want to.

Yeah, you are right, I wanted to, but I was tired of going 2-2 or 1-3.  HAD I gone out on a line and made the picks I would have been 3-1, losing the Wil vs Whit game.  I just thought Wil would be able to take down Whit, but I was wrong. 

OR teams go 1-3 on Saturday, not pretty. 

How about that "re"-matchup Friday?  Lets get the hype started soon, ala Super Bowl week.  Let me get mine in early:  UPS by 10.

LC keeps on winning, Pac and Wil sink further, and Lin will be the 4th seed in the tournament with UPS obviously top dog.  The battle is now between WW and LC for the 2nd and 3rd seed.  Who slips up between them?  I wish I could go with LC, but without Kollasch and as much as it pains me to go with the WA team, I have to say WW 2 and LC 3.

I just hope the NWC tournament doesn't cost the NWC a second bid to the post-season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 08, 2009, 04:11:58 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 08, 2009, 02:55:45 AM
I wish I could go with LC, but without Kollasch and as much as it pains me to go with the WA team, I have to say WW 2 and LC 3.

I have to agree. I am surprised that LC hasn't slipped up yet (if you don't count the suspended game loss to Willamette). Even with Kollasch they were inconsistent. But who knows...maybe they will keep winning and pleasantly surprise me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 08, 2009, 05:23:59 PM
PIO:

I think they will do okay.  There guards are pretty good, and the young ones are getting  minutes without Kollasch.  At this point of the season, they are no longer frosh, but closer to soph with almost a year under their belt. 

But they have a terrible finish to their schedule: at home against Lin (playing some good basketball right now), and at Wil, Whit and WW to finish the regular season.  All of those games will be tough.  They could sweep or get swept!

If they get Lin, they can finish no worse than 3rd.  Not too bad for such an inconsistent team that lost its best player!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 08, 2009, 08:21:44 PM
Good win for the Logs...not complete domination, but controlled it the entire game.  4 more left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 08, 2009, 08:31:55 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 08, 2009, 12:33:38 AM
Not sure why I bother but, went to the LINFIELD home site to listen to the game tonight...."not available."

Tough to keep fans interested in that b-ball program.

That's too bad, because the team is actually pretty good.   Is basketball just not that popular at Linfield?  More of a football or baseball following?  Or is it because of the class act that the coach shows when he "high fives" a player for gettng a technical?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 08, 2009, 10:08:18 PM
Logshow's right, not complete domination by Loggers at home last night.  There was not a moment when it appeared GFU could win the game, but in the first half they hung tough.  The development in Tacoma that I think is worth noting is that A. Williams, always terrific but inconsistent and prone to errors when he tried to make things just a little too fancy, is now just terrific.  There's nobody in the NWC who can guard him; it'll be interesting to see if there's anybody in the nation in D3 who can guard him.  He was the best player on the floor last night, and that's saying something because Krauel and Foster are playing great ball. 

One quiet thing to look at is the way that the Logs have defended other team's best 3 point shooters.  I haven't sat down and done the math, but if I did I think I'd find that they end up well below average in the # of shots, not to mention percentage.  Robert Krauel just snuffed Dressler the other night in the halfcourt....

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on February 09, 2009, 12:58:12 AM
Dressler got shut down completely last tuesday by Puget Sound, I think he was 1-8.  Williams looks much more patient and within himself now compared to last year, a very fun player to watch.  Last year it kind of felt like he forced things at times, now he seems content to let the game come to him and it's rubbing off on the team well.  He was quietly efficient against George Fox last night
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 09, 2009, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 08, 2009, 10:08:18 PM
There's nobody in the NWC who can guard him; it'll be interesting to see if there's anybody in the nation in D3 who can guard him. 

Sorry, NWCer, but I couldn't wait for you to jump all over this, and since I blasted your guards, I felt the need to stand up and say "Nah uh". 

No doubt Williams is a very good guard, first team all-league if I had a vote, but he has been guarded and guarded pretty well.  I am just going from statistics, but he scored 11 against LC on 1/30, 8 against Wil on 1/24 and 4 against Pac on 1/23.  He has average just over 20 points in the last 3 games, but can't be guarded?  Those are  not the statistics of an unstoppable player!  And he plays on a team that other teams can't afford to focus just on him with the likes of Foster, Krauel, etc. 

In the national tournament, he will face better guards than in the NWC and they will be able to limit him if not close him down. 

Dressler getting shut down should not be a surprise.  He is playing on a team that is far out of the playoffs that is struggling after preseason optimism, as all teams have.  Sitting for 5 games sure didn't help his flow this season, and the team has played inconsistent all season long.  Being tied for last can't help his attitude.  Checking out on any given night would seem likely given such a scenerio.

I wonder if the refs let rough play go uncalled like they did at LC (from Biddy).  That would explain opponents poor shooting.  But the UPS pressure is very good and that alone has put more than a couple of shooters into bad shooting games this year.   But other teams have shut Dressler down too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 09, 2009, 06:15:25 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 09, 2009, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 08, 2009, 10:08:18 PM
There's nobody in the NWC who can guard him; it'll be interesting to see if there's anybody in the nation in D3 who can guard him. 

Sorry, NWCer, but I couldn't wait for you to jump all over this, and since I blasted your guards, I felt the need to stand up and say "Nah uh". 

No doubt Williams is a very good guard, first team all-league if I had a vote, but he has been guarded and guarded pretty well.  I am just going from statistics, but he scored 11 against LC on 1/30, 8 against Wil on 1/24 and 4 against Pac on 1/23.  He has average just over 20 points in the last 3 games, but can't be guarded?  Those are  not the statistics of an unstoppable player!  And he plays on a team that other teams can't afford to focus just on him with the likes of Foster, Krauel, etc. 

In the national tournament, he will face better guards than in the NWC and they will be able to limit him if not close him down. 

I think Pugetsoundfan is right, but im gonna go out on a limb and make a guess that he meant that there is anybody who can guard williams 1 on 1. the proof of this is on the last couple of games scoring 20+ points. by moving him off the point, it allowed the ball to move and the defense to shift before it ends up in antwan's hands where he is now only taking on 1 defender plus 1 maybe 2 players in help defense instead of 4 defenders set and ready to help. The bottom line is that williams is to quick to play tight and to good a shooter to play off and he also can knock down pulls and floaters which makes him pretty hard to stop. Other teams in the country might be able to stop him, if they have a 6'4" guard who's lighting quick...but for some reason those type of guys never seem to end up in DIII
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 09, 2009, 06:36:58 PM
heard some scary news through the grapevine that LCs Kollasch was in intensive care on Saturday night. Pio or anybody have any news/updates? i hope he's alright
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 09, 2009, 07:15:09 PM
Did Kollasch get hurt in a game or something or is it something else?  That IS too bad, if it's true, he's a great bb player and a real asset to L&C.  I also hope he's OK.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 09, 2009, 09:19:35 PM
i heard it was something wrong internally, not anything from a game
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 09, 2009, 09:52:18 PM
So, logshock, what's your beef with the Dutch?   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 09, 2009, 11:42:33 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 09, 2009, 09:52:18 PM
So, logshock, what's your beef with the Dutch?   ;D

well bbaddict since we seem to be having our own little conversation here ill let you in on a little secret. its all because of that thieving, disco loving, dutchman aptly named Gold Member   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 10, 2009, 12:24:30 AM
Don't know who that is, but your tag line makes me chuckle everytime I see it, so that's my reason for asking.

Where'd you get the info about Kollasch, anyway?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 10, 2009, 01:30:10 AM
its a quote from the movie Austin Powers Goldmember with Mike Myers...heard about Kollasch from both a UPS player as well as one of the coaches
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 10, 2009, 03:08:12 AM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnuudeli.com%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2FViikon_Kuva%2Fgoldmember.jpg&hash=6cda0fa935a161f9c2df12342aca58bb56b14487)

Just for you, logshock! :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 10, 2009, 12:13:33 PM
he's a baaaaaaddddd man 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 10, 2009, 12:53:31 PM
Gotcha, Shock, about Williams.  I see what you are saying about the last 3 games, but are you saying teams that held Williams around 10 points are doubling him and leaving the other 3 players to guard Foster, Krauel, Heyman and Boyce?  I don't think so.  It would seem more reasonable they wouldn't do that, but I haven't seen as many games as you guys have.

Biddy spoke with some of the parents, and told me that Kollasch nearly died Saturday night.  He had surgery through the night and won the battle.  He has a stomach problem of some sort, and another problem, but was better on Monday and reports were that he was out of immediate danger.  Certainly good news!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 10, 2009, 01:54:36 PM
no, teams certainly are not doubling williams and leaving only 3 to guard our other studs. i think teams who have been successful in slowing williams have done so with excellent help defense and good rotations. however just because he didnt have big scoring games doesn't mean that he hasnt had a big impact on the game

that is great news that Kollasch made it through the night and surgery successfully. hopefully he continues to improve
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 10, 2009, 01:58:49 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 10, 2009, 12:53:31 PM
Biddy spoke with some of the parents, and told me that Kollasch nearly died Saturday night.  He had surgery through the night and won the battle.  He has a stomach problem of some sort, and another problem, but was better on Monday and reports were that he was out of immediate danger.  Certainly good news!

Yeah all is looking well for Josh. He had some type of stomach infection that got pretty ugly but I think he is going to be ok. Just no more basketball for a while sadly. Hopefully the rest of the Pios are dedicating the rest of the season to him.

A couple of LC players went to visit Josh last night. A nice gesture by them to let Josh know they are by his side.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 10, 2009, 02:59:06 PM
Pio20 I have been reading your posts all year now, and you tend to speak about the Pios in ways that makes it sound like you know a lot about the team when you really know very little.  Please don't continue to be the voice of the Pios when you do not have valid inside information.   Go Pios, and Good Luck Josh!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 10, 2009, 03:05:30 PM
Quote from: oldnwcer on February 10, 2009, 02:59:06 PM
Pio20 I have been reading your posts all year now, and you tend to speak about the Pios in ways that makes it sound like you know a lot about the team when you really know very little.  Please don't continue to be the voice of the Pios when you do not have valid inside information.   Go Pios, and Good Luck Josh!

I apologize if I said something incorrect to make you think that of me. I do actually know quite a bit about the Pios seeing as I went to Lewis & Clark and still know quite a few of the players. All I heard about Josh is that he had surgery and is fighting Crohn's disease but is improving greatly.

Also, Pioneer Athletics wrote up a nice piece in making Josh the only "Athlete of the Week" this week.
http://www.lcpioneers.com/landing/2008-09_PAC_Athletes/kollasch2
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 10, 2009, 03:25:45 PM
Hey Pio 20, thanks for the updates on Josh Kollasch and I, for one, don't care if you "know it all" about the Pios.  Keep contributing, as you're one of the few L&C contributors.  Seems to me that "insiders" would be too busy to care about some board where we argue about who's best or who will win.  Your opinion is as good as the next, so don't stop.

Glad to hear that Josh K is going to be OK.  Sorry to hear that he won't be playing basketball, he's one of the good ones!  Fun to watch &  a real competitor.

So, oldnwcer -- what's the REAL scoop on L&C?  You seem to be in the know.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 10, 2009, 03:40:14 PM
A nice article in the Oregonian about Coach G:
http://www.oregonlive.com/collegebasketball/index.ssf/2009/02/university_of_san_franciscos_b.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 10, 2009, 04:26:24 PM
i appreciate what u give to this board pio...please enlighten us oldnwcer, ill be looking forward to your E!trueportland story: The LC Pioneers
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 10, 2009, 04:56:10 PM
That is pretty cool that Coach G has 500 wins -- what an accomplishment!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 10, 2009, 06:46:51 PM
Just heard from Biddy that Kollasch does have Crohns disease, a nasty but treatable illness, and that he was in a very serious condition Saturday night also having a ruptured appendix that went undetected.  They weren't sure he was going to make it until the surgery! Whew!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 10, 2009, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 10, 2009, 06:46:51 PM
Just heard from Biddy that Kollasch does have Crohns disease, a nasty but treatable illness, and that he was in a very serious condition Saturday night also having a ruptured appendix that went undetected.  They weren't sure he was going to make it until the surgery! Whew!

very scary stuff. that is great he pulled through. definition of a true warrior
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 10, 2009, 08:59:32 PM
All best wishes for a safe and speedy recovery to Kollasch and his family from down here in Salem!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 11, 2009, 05:14:28 AM
So, what happened to Pacific last night?  I thought they were pretty tough at home.  Is Fox that much improved or was it just a bad night for the Boxers?  Anybody see the game?  Reports?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on February 11, 2009, 11:27:32 AM
Fox played their best game of the year by far, Stockner and Atwater both shot the ball really well.  Howe had a huge game for Pacific but nobody else really showed up for the boxers.  Bartlett didn't really do much on the court, and Pacific couldn't throw a grape into the ocean from outside
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 11, 2009, 11:47:26 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 11, 2009, 05:14:28 AM
So, what happened to Pacific last night?  I thought they were pretty tough at home.  Is Fox that much improved or was it just a bad night for the Boxers?  Anybody see the game?  Reports?

bbaddict - I thought my Boxers were tough at home too!  So much for having 5 at home down the stretch...  Losses to Whitman, Whitworth, LC, Fox, and pretty sure UPS next week...  Seems like there has been a lot of bad nights... I did make it out last night, Bartlett really struggled, you can tell he's not quite right, and 80's shorts was right, they couldn't throw a grape into the ocean, never seen those many bricks.  Pacific struggled, and Fox looked pretty good.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 11, 2009, 08:41:22 PM
heres a link to a paper article on the bridgelands return to ups:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/622157.html

i think the quote 2nd from the end by robert krauel pretty much somes up how the loggers feel
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 12, 2009, 12:40:08 AM
Recap of last weekend's eastern Washington games for the Bearcats:

http://www.willamettecollegian.com/2009/02/11/bearcats-on-life-support-after-discouraging-weekend/

Anyone from Pacific or L&C coming down to the Cone for this weekend's games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 12, 2009, 02:02:02 AM
I'm gonna make it down bearcatpress..

Interesting quotes in that Bridgeland/UPS story..  Is Bridgeland calling Lunt a "time teller"?  Pretty obvious Krauel likes playing for Lunt..  And is Krauel calling Bridgeland "Eric" disrespectful?  Not implying, just asking the thoughts of the UPS faithful..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 12, 2009, 02:44:36 AM
Nice work BCpress.

I am most impressed, however, that the school paper budget paid for the trip to Eastern Washington.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 12, 2009, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 12, 2009, 02:44:36 AM
Nice work BCpress.

I am most impressed, however, that the school paper budget paid for the trip to Eastern Washington.

Not quite. :)  Since both schools have free video streaming, I got to watch the game from the comfort of my undersized dorm room.  I've still got one more year to make the trip up to Whitworth, which is something I'd like to do.  Tremendous atmosphere you guys have up there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 12, 2009, 07:51:41 PM
Friday night's game in Tacoma should be fun, looking forward to seeing Hayford's stomping about and two strong teams going at one another--and maybe feeling one another out for the rematch that may well come. 

I didn't think that Tacoma paper article on the old coach's return to Tacoma was negative in any way.  It was fun to read, but in fact it followed the formula for the "old coach comes home" article that's been written a million times, right down to the inevitable, "When the whistle blows, none of this will be on anybody's minds..."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 13, 2009, 12:33:04 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 12, 2009, 02:02:02 AM
I'm gonna make it down bearcatpress..

Interesting quotes in that Bridgeland/UPS story..  Is Bridgeland calling Lunt a "time teller"?  Pretty obvious Krauel likes playing for Lunt..  And is Krauel calling Bridgeland "Eric" disrespectful?  Not implying, just asking the thoughts of the UPS faithful..

i'm not sure if bridgeland meant it come across like he was calling lunt a time teller. either way it was lunt who did some big time recruiting to get some of our best players to come to ups. kinda funny though, all the time that i was around the team i never once heard the terms clock builder or time teller and im pretty sure the guys would have made some cracks about it like they did with phrases like "brutal reality"...i for one think that Krauels comments of calling him eric is in disrespect and trying to get under his skin. apparently bridgeland put robert and james pinkney through a couple hour long brutal workout just prior to informing the team that he was leaving, so i would guess that might have been a bit of a shot at bridgeland
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 13, 2009, 12:36:13 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 12, 2009, 02:24:51 PM
Not quite. :)  Since both schools have free video streaming, I got to watch the game from the comfort of my undersized dorm room.  I've still got one more year to make the trip up to Whitworth, which is something I'd like to do.  Tremendous atmosphere you guys have up there.

ups needs to get their act together and get streaming video going on all their home games. that would be way better than watching the live stats. for some reason thats not quite the same
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 13, 2009, 12:38:45 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 12, 2009, 07:51:41 PM
Friday night's game in Tacoma should be fun, looking forward to seeing Hayford's stomping about and two strong teams going at one another--and maybe feeling one another out for the rematch that may well come. 

i can't wait for the game tomorrow! memorial fieldhouse will be rockin! lookout for whiteout condtions
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 13, 2009, 11:51:58 AM
I certainly hope tonights game will be a battle.  UPS is looking very strong and is rolling.  An undefeated season in conference is VERY tough to do.  Will be there with a large WW section coming I hear.  Prediction: WW 87-84!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 13, 2009, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 13, 2009, 11:51:58 AM
I certainly hope tonights game will be a battle.  UPS is looking very strong and is rolling.  An undefeated season in conference is VERY tough to do.  Will be there with a large WW section coming I hear.  Prediction: WW 87-84!!

Pretty bold prediction there nwhoops! loggers have been tough at home this year. i think they will be ready, since this could be the clincher

Prediction 89-75 UPS with the loggers pulling away early in the 2nd half then WW comes back to make it interesting but can't make it over the hump.

I can't wait to see the crowd tonight. you guys got some dedicated fans to make the trip over. i think last year ups could only get about 6 students to travel over the mountain to the nwc final.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2009, 06:00:48 PM
Are they expecting any blizzards on Snoqualmie Pass?  That's the fun travelling from Spokane to Seattle in the winter.

So, will L&C still beat Linfield tonight without Kollasch?  I assume he's done for the season, but maybe I'm wrong?

Should be a battle in Salem between Pacific & Willamette -- it always is!  Go Bearcats -- defend your home court!

UPS vs Whitworth -- I'm leaning toward UPS for the win.  Whitworth can do it, but will they?  Of course, they'll have a large crowd there -- aren't a lot of their players from the Seattle area?  I know the German kid was an exchange student in Longview, WA, and it's easier to get to Tacoma than Spokane from there.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 13, 2009, 07:34:10 PM
Big, Big game tonight...I think WW is going to bring all they got, but I don't think it will quite be enough on the Logger's home floor
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 13, 2009, 07:39:11 PM
I may suck at this, but here goes.

Lin at LC:   At home, better record, just a better team.  Lin has to have this one to stay in the 4th seed spot, so they will be motivated, but I have to go with LC on this one.

Whit at PLU:  Real tough one here.  Both bottom tier teams fighting for...well, nothing but price.  PLU at home, but Whit has some better athletes.  I will go with Whit on this one.

Pac at Wil:  Pac playing for pride and not much of it right now after a drubbing by Fox.  Wil still in the hunt for a playoff position.  All indicators point to Wil, so I will too and go with Wil.

And the big one:  Being an underdog backer, I would like to go with WW, but I just can't do it.  It is too late for UPS to take a loss for the good of the league, no one can catch them now.  Revenge for the earlier loss won't be enough to offset the talent, home court advantage and lure of an undefeated season for UPS.  WW is a very good team, but not good enough here as UPS will win.

Question:  Who was the last board junkie to pick all four games right?  It seems like no one has done it this year, have they?

Addict:  Biddy reports Kollasch done for the season, still in the hospital and will be for a while, but recuperating.  LC still battling, though.  This weekend will tell if they can now win the bigger games without him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 13, 2009, 07:40:45 PM
Oops, typo in last post (I did it again!).  How about playing for pride instead of price.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 14, 2009, 01:13:29 AM
Great performance by the Bearcats tonight - easily the best I've seen them play this year.  The fact that we were able to win that convincingly despite a 3-15 night by Kyler McClary is a really, really encouraging sign.

As they say, it ain't over till it's over!  I was really rooting for the Pios to take out Linfield tonight but I guess I'll have to root for GFU instead.  And congrats to UPS on the conference championship!  Any chance you guys could play your scrubs when you come to the Cone? ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 14, 2009, 01:29:47 AM
Logs in solid win over Whitworth, in a chippy game.  WW did make a late run, abetted by a goaltending non-call, followed by a Lunt technical (Justin got the T for showing his springs--he looked like he jumped 6 feet in the air) for two points, then a 3, the old 7 point swing got the Pirates back within 5 or 6.  UPS had big problems controlling Zurich, but WW looked more bothered by the pressure in the first half than I've seen in awhile.  Haven't seen the stats on shots, but it looked like Riley had a rough time getting off the 3....Foster and Krauel very tough late for UPS....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 14, 2009, 01:55:11 AM
The NWC Crown Returns to UPS!!! whitworth put up a great effort, but the loggers just had too much for them tonight. many questionable calls by the refs tonight, but what else is new?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2009, 08:48:45 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 14, 2009, 01:29:47 AM
Logs in solid win over Whitworth, in a chippy game.  WW did make a late run, abetted by a goaltending non-call, followed by a Lunt technical (Justin got the T for showing his springs--he looked like he jumped 6 feet in the air) for two points, then a 3, the old 7 point swing got the Pirates back within 5 or 6.  UPS had big problems controlling Zurich, but WW looked more bothered by the pressure in the first half than I've seen in awhile.  Haven't seen the stats on shots, but it looked like Riley had a rough time getting off the 3....Foster and Krauel very tough late for UPS....

Congrats to UPS.  A very good team with C-POTY in Foster for sure.  He played like an AA.  Super intense battle and yea the refs weren't quite at the same level as the teams playing the game but not the real story.  Perfect conf. season most likely for the Loggers which is impressive.  WW never gave up or gave in and fought and battled.  I doubt UPS has had a tougher test in conf. than what WW offered last night.  Hope we get 1 more shot at a really good team.  Congrats to Lunt on his first title as Head Coach and likely COTY....send all the hardware to Tacoma, they deserve it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 14, 2009, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 13, 2009, 06:00:48 PM
So, will L&C still beat Linfield tonight without Kollasch?  I assume he's done for the season, but maybe I'm wrong?

No and yes  :( Story of the Pios loss was once again poor shooting. I think it is still possible for them to make some noise in the playoffs (assuming they get there). They have always played better with their backs against the wall. Congrats to the Loggers. Simply an impressive run of conference to this point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 14, 2009, 06:23:49 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 14, 2009, 01:13:29 AM
Great performance by the Bearcats tonight - easily the best I've seen them play this year.  The fact that we were able to win that convincingly despite a 3-15 night by Kyler McClary is a really, really encouraging sign.

As they say, it ain't over till it's over!  I was really rooting for the Pios to take out Linfield tonight but I guess I'll have to root for GFU instead.  And congrats to UPS on the conference championship!  Any chance you guys could play your scrubs when you come to the Cone? ;)

I'd say it was a great first half, and they eked out the second!  Glad they got the win, but if they played like they did in the first 1/2 all the time, they'd be unstoppable!  Looking forward to the rematch of L&C & Willamette tonight -- should be a good game.  If the crowd stays in it, Willamette should have the edge.  What's with the student section anyway?  They get quiet if the Bearcats are too far ahead or too far behind.  The only thing that keeps them in the game for the whole game is the knuckle biting ones!  That team feeds off of crowd involvement--so cheer loudly, Bearcat fans!!

Congrats to the Loggers.  So, if they DO lose in the NWC playoffs, do you suppose we'd get two teams in the dance?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 14, 2009, 06:34:03 PM
The logs finally brought the championship back to Tacoma, congrats guys!!!  What a great season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 14, 2009, 06:35:47 PM
Interesting story line tonight...UPS former coach returns for the first time on senior night.  I think the loggers will win, but I am very interested to see what else happens.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 14, 2009, 06:43:11 PM
Interested Logs, as in, coach tantrums, ejections & such?  Do you think he'll behave on his old home court?  UPS should win that one for sure.

I sure am hoping the Bruins take care of Linfield tonight!  Thought the Pios would last night, but it wasn't to happen!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 14, 2009, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 14, 2009, 06:23:49 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 14, 2009, 01:13:29 AM
Great performance by the Bearcats tonight - easily the best I've seen them play this year.  The fact that we were able to win that convincingly despite a 3-15 night by Kyler McClary is a really, really encouraging sign.

As they say, it ain't over till it's over!  I was really rooting for the Pios to take out Linfield tonight but I guess I'll have to root for GFU instead.  And congrats to UPS on the conference championship!  Any chance you guys could play your scrubs when you come to the Cone? ;)

I'd say it was a great first half, and they eked out the second!  Glad they got the win, but if they played like they did in the first 1/2 all the time, they'd be unstoppable!  Looking forward to the rematch of L&C & Willamette tonight -- should be a good game.  If the crowd stays in it, Willamette should have the edge.  What's with the student section anyway?  They get quiet if the Bearcats are too far ahead or too far behind.  The only thing that keeps them in the game for the whole game is the knuckle biting ones!  That team feeds off of crowd involvement--so cheer loudly, Bearcat fans!!

Congrats to the Loggers.  So, if they DO lose in the NWC playoffs, do you suppose we'd get two teams in the dance?

I don't know . . . for the first time in a long time, I never felt nervous when the other team was making a run.  I definitely felt like there was some confidence on the court that we hadn't seen in a while.  I'm not sure what's going on with the students . . . we were really good last year, but for some reason things have slid backwards this year.  I don't think the losing has helped.  But if we can pull off a win tonight and win at GFU next Friday, I'd expect a big crowd for UPS next weekend.

GO BEARCATS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 15, 2009, 01:47:23 AM
loggers win in an ugly one tonight...congrats loggers on making the cover page on D3hoops. however, i would have to disagree with the write saying ups cruised to the victory. whitman was sure over matched tonight, but those guys played their butts off keeping this one interesting til the very end
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 15, 2009, 02:10:35 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 15, 2009, 01:47:23 AM
loggers win in an ugly one tonight...congrats loggers on making the cover page on D3hoops. however, i would have to disagree with the write saying ups cruised to the victory. whitman was sure over matched tonight, but those guys played their butts off keeping this one interesting til the very end
Whitman led at half and had some fight in them.  Whitman has definitely improved and is probably out of the bottom 3 for a long, long time.

LC's loss tonight to WU puts the Pirates in solid for the #2 seed.  They would have to lose both to slide to 3 or 4.  They outclassed a spiritless PLU team tonight and cruised to an easy win. 

So who gets the 3-4 spots?  Linfield looks like its playing good and is probably #3 in the conf. with its last 3 against the bottom 3.  LC has the difficult E Wash trip and needs 1 for sure.  What's with the Sunday game?  WU might need to win at UPS to get in and in the process spoil a perfect season for the Loggers...fun times!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 15, 2009, 02:22:31 AM
NWHOOPS1903, I think that if LC sweeps next weekend on the eastern WA swing, they would end up #2 in the conference as both LC and WW would have 5 losses with LC sweeping WW. But we all know how unlikely that would be, especially with LC finishing the season without Josh Kollasch.   LC needs a win or Willamette needs a loss to get LC into the playoffs.  But to the victor goes a probable trip to Tacoma.  Yea! :(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 02:51:51 AM
I thought L&C looked pretty good tonight, even without Kollasch.  The other guys seem to be stepping up.  Willamette played pretty well, but it was a close contest to the end.  I really expected an OT.  Wow, what a wild & wooly game!

The student section at WU tonight was pretty small.  Was everyone out getting engaged or something? ;D  It is Valentine's Day.

So, Fox almost beat Linfield it sounds like?  Was anyone there?  Sounded like an interesting one.

Whitman's contest with UPS almost makes it sound like "someone" could beat UPS -- this year?  Probably not, but there's still some chances to try.

I don't see Whitworth dropping their games to either Whitman or L&C (at home).  What IS with the Sunday afternoon game?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 03:31:18 AM
It's gonna be a tough finish to the season for the Pios. Anything can happen. Can someone refresh my memory as to how the new 4-team playoff will work? Will the 4 seed play at the 3 seed? The 2 seed at the 1 seed? Then the winners of those games play for the championships?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 03:47:23 AM
Nope, 4 seed plays at UPS (#1 seed) and 3 plays at 2, and then whatever 2 teams are left play at the highest seeded team.  So, it's not a picnic to be #4 this year, for sure.

Of course, UPS could have what I like to call a "Patriot's finish" which means they lose to the #4 seed when it's most important (after winning all season).

WU is in a bad position.   They not only need to win their last 2 games, they also need someone to lose some.  And, even if they win, they still have to play UPS in the 1st round because I don't think they can finish better than 4th.  Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd love to be wrong on this one.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 04:28:57 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 03:47:23 AM
Nope, 4 seed plays at UPS (#1 seed) and 3 plays at 2, and then whatever 2 teams are left play at the highest seeded team.  So, it's not a picnic to be #4 this year, for sure.

Of course, UPS could have what I like to call a "Patriot's finish" which means they lose to the #4 seed when it's most important (after winning all season).

WU is in a bad position.   They not only need to win their last 2 games, they also need someone to lose some.  And, even if they win, they still have to play UPS in the 1st round because I don't think they can finish better than 4th.  Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd love to be wrong on this one.

No they could finish third if they win out and LC and Linfield lose their last two. Then LC and Willamette would be 9-7 and Linfield would fall to 8-8. Willamette would take the tie-breaker since they have beaten LC twice now. Then LC would be the four seed and play at UPS while Willamette would be the three seed and play at WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 04:45:33 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 14, 2009, 06:23:49 PM
Congrats to the Loggers.  So, if they DO lose in the NWC playoffs, do you suppose we'd get two teams in the dance?

I think UPS has to get in at this point even if they lose in the NWC playoffs. But even if that happens and someone else wins the NWC title wouldn't it be likely that the first round NCAA game would be between the NWC champ and UPS anyway?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 15, 2009, 11:51:02 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 04:45:33 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 14, 2009, 06:23:49 PM
Congrats to the Loggers.  So, if they DO lose in the NWC playoffs, do you suppose we'd get two teams in the dance?

I think UPS has to get in at this point even if they lose in the NWC playoffs. But even if that happens and someone else wins the NWC title wouldn't it be likely that the first round NCAA game would be between the NWC champ and UPS anyway?

Just to be safe, I think UPS needs to win both games next weekend to be a sure shot pool C bid.  You are right they probably have it sealed up already.  Sorry to nitpick Pio, but UPS is the NWC champ...with the tournament champ still TBD.  If the Logs drop a game in the NWC tourney, allowing two NWC teams to get in the dance (in a long time) this is how I think it will play out.  Its a fact that the NWC teams wouldn't be able to avoid each other.  So assuming that the SCIAC only gets one team in, I think that the NCAA will make it a 3 team pod of the 2 NWC teams and the SCIAC team.  UPS would get the bye and then play the winner of the Thursday game on Saturday.  The only question is would the other NWC team get to host the first game, or should it just be played at UPS since the Saturday game will be played there. 

I do hope that if there is two NWC teams they get stuck in different pods, but I just don't seeing that happening.  The other thing I am almost willing to bet in is that UPS will be seeing UW-Stevens Point in the NCAA.  It would only fit for the selection commitee to match them up again in the sweet 16.  But I sure hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 04:28:57 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 03:47:23 AM
Nope, 4 seed plays at UPS (#1 seed) and 3 plays at 2, and then whatever 2 teams are left play at the highest seeded team.  So, it's not a picnic to be #4 this year, for sure.

Of course, UPS could have what I like to call a "Patriot's finish" which means they lose to the #4 seed when it's most important (after winning all season).

WU is in a bad position.   They not only need to win their last 2 games, they also need someone to lose some.  And, even if they win, they still have to play UPS in the 1st round because I don't think they can finish better than 4th.  Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd love to be wrong on this one.

No they could finish third if they win out and LC and Linfield lose their last two. Then LC and Willamette would be 9-7 and Linfield would fall to 8-8. Willamette would take the tie-breaker since they have beaten LC twice now. Then LC would be the four seed and play at UPS while Willamette would be the three seed and play at WW.

See Pio -- this is why we keep you around.   So, it's that tricky time of year when you're not only hoping your team will win, but that specific other teams will lose!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 15, 2009, 11:51:02 AM
UPS would get the bye and then play the winner of the Thursday game on Saturday.  The only question is would the other NWC team get to host the first game, or should it just be played at UPS since the Saturday game will be played there. 

Is UPS guaranteed a bye?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 15, 2009, 02:26:25 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 15, 2009, 11:51:02 AM
UPS would get the bye and then play the winner of the Thursday game on Saturday.  The only question is would the other NWC team get to host the first game, or should it just be played at UPS since the Saturday game will be played there. 

Is UPS guaranteed a bye?


No, definately no guarantees.  That's just how I thought it might play out.  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 15, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
Speculation on how the top 25 and the West Regional Rankings are going to look after this weekend as UW-SP and UW-Platteville lost, both to #5 UW-Whitewater? 
I'm wondering if this opens the door for UPS to pass one of the two losing teams, but then again losing to the #5 team in a close game might not hurt either one enough.  I think if UPS wins out through the tournament they have a chance to jump up to 3rd or maybe 2nd in the West, but without further losses for Stevens Point or St. Thomas (which I don't anticipate) I think our relatively weak conference this year will keep the Loggers from anything higher than a 3rd or 4th seed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 15, 2009, 04:45:43 PM
Regional rankings and schedule strength play heavily in Pool C.  If WW wins out and then loses to UPS in tourney final, they would still have a shot at an at large.  Whoever said no guarantees is sooooooo right, however, I think UPS is safely in.  Where anyone or everyone ends up in NCAA's is like guessing where a meteor will fall.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 15, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
Speculation on how the top 25 and the West Regional Rankings are going to look after this weekend as UW-SP and UW-Platteville lost, both to #5 UW-Whitewater? 
I'm wondering if this opens the door for UPS to pass one of the two losing teams, but then again losing to the #5 team in a close game might not hurt either one enough.  I think if UPS wins out through the tournament they have a chance to jump up to 3rd or maybe 2nd in the West, but without further losses for Stevens Point or St. Thomas (which I don't anticipate) I think our relatively weak conference this year will keep the Loggers from anything higher than a 3rd or 4th seed.

In what Universe is a conference that has more than 1/2 it's teams over .500 a weak one?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2009, 04:57:43 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 15, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
Speculation on how the top 25 and the West Regional Rankings are going to look after this weekend as UW-SP and UW-Platteville lost, both to #5 UW-Whitewater? 
I'm wondering if this opens the door for UPS to pass one of the two losing teams, but then again losing to the #5 team in a close game might not hurt either one enough.

On the road at that. It validates home-court advantage, really.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 15, 2009, 05:05:33 PM
i would not be surprised if 2 nwc teams made it to the NCAAs and then got matched up in the 1st round with the winner facing a sciac team simply because that is what would be the cheapest thing for the NCAA, which sucks, but they will pinch every penny they can because they dont make any money on the the D3 tourney
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 15, 2009, 07:05:32 PM
It's not been unusual on the women's side for NWC teams to face on another--UPS and George Fox have been together in the first bracket a couple of times recently, and last year ended up playing a second round game against one another (alas, lost by the Loggers).  Puget Sound and Fox  have been so evenly matched in recent years that their 4th game of the season (2 regulars plus NWC final plus NCAA) was kind of interesting, but it would have been nice to see how the NWC leaders stacked up against somebody else, to be honest.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2009, 07:56:52 PM
While the NCAA has often done rather nasty tricks to you guys a plane flight away from the rest of d3, I'm pretty sure they now have a rule against first-round match-ups of conference rivals EVEN if it costs them airfare.  Now, second round - probably you'd meet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 15, 2009, 08:22:11 PM
yep, that's why I was thinking that if UPS gets upset in the conference tourney, the NCAA would fly a SCIAC team up here to the Pac Northwest and have them square off and the winner taking on UPS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2009, 08:52:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2009, 07:56:52 PM
While the NCAA has often done rather nasty tricks to you guys a plane flight away from the rest of d3, I'm pretty sure they now have a rule against first-round match-ups of conference rivals EVEN if it costs them airfare.  Now, second round - probably you'd meet.

Since when?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2009, 08:59:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2009, 08:52:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2009, 07:56:52 PM
While the NCAA has often done rather nasty tricks to you guys a plane flight away from the rest of d3, I'm pretty sure they now have a rule against first-round match-ups of conference rivals EVEN if it costs them airfare.  Now, second round - probably you'd meet.

Since when?

Wasn't that the rationale for the switcheroo at Miss Col (or did that happen only because there WASN'T an extra plane flight involved)?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2009, 09:09:33 PM
Bingo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 15, 2009, 11:46:41 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 15, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
Speculation on how the top 25 and the West Regional Rankings are going to look after this weekend as UW-SP and UW-Platteville lost, both to #5 UW-Whitewater? 
I'm wondering if this opens the door for UPS to pass one of the two losing teams, but then again losing to the #5 team in a close game might not hurt either one enough.  I think if UPS wins out through the tournament they have a chance to jump up to 3rd or maybe 2nd in the West, but without further losses for Stevens Point or St. Thomas (which I don't anticipate) I think our relatively weak conference this year will keep the Loggers from anything higher than a 3rd or 4th seed.

In what Universe is a conference that has more than 1/2 it's teams over .500 a weak one?

My bad, I meant weak when compared to the WIAC which I was discussing.  Three teams in the top 5?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2009, 02:45:05 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2009, 08:52:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2009, 07:56:52 PM
While the NCAA has often done rather nasty tricks to you guys a plane flight away from the rest of d3, I'm pretty sure they now have a rule against first-round match-ups of conference rivals EVEN if it costs them airfare.  Now, second round - probably you'd meet.

Since when?
I also hear that the NCAA committee has already determined the field to save money and get 21 day advance fares in an effort to save even more money.  I wonder if Coleman will find this amusing?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 16, 2009, 03:21:37 AM
That's good NWhoops!  +K for having a good sense of humor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 16, 2009, 03:32:13 AM
I guess you have to consider who votes in the Top 25:

Who votes in the D3hoops.com Top 25?

There are 25 voters on each panel -- three from each of the NCAA's eight regions with myself as the 25th voter. The voters are coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members.


If you've ever looked at a map of the DIII schools, UPS4Life, you'll notice very few west of Wisconsin.  The Left Coast has to work twice as hard to be noticed.  It's 25 men's opinions, but when it's all said & done, they don't decide who gets to play in the NCAA tournament.  That's left up to the mysterious "Committee" and different conference systems of appointing their AQ teams.  I'm not saying they're wrong -- just saying that it's an opinion -- or several of them compiled together.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 16, 2009, 03:47:06 AM
True, but I think the Wisconsin teams have proven that their rankings are well deserved, Steven's Point has done so personally to UPS a number of times, here in Tacoma and elsewhere, and both times we were the higher seed.  So I guess it is true that rankings don't matter.  Personally, any team that has to play them twice a year and can play at their level proves something to me as well.  These teams are scary and we'll most likely have to play them in Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 16, 2009, 04:36:41 AM
You're right.  Basketball is pretty serious business in the midwest --- probably too cold to do much else most of the year! ;D  I know those teams are tough.  I'm just saying not to put too much stock in the Top 25 Rankings, because they're interesting, but we're always surprised when the brackets are revealed.

Besides, UPS still has to get through the mighty NWC, don't forget.  There's the conference tournament to be considered and I don't think any of the teams have given up yet.  (Well, maybe some have, but not the top teams.)   Whitman could be a real spoiler this year for some teams and I'm pretty sure they don't think the season's over.

WU's Bearcats are still in it, however, by a string & a prayer.  But, I believe in prayer . . . .

Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2009, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 15, 2009, 11:46:41 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 15, 2009, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 15, 2009, 03:51:37 PM
Speculation on how the top 25 and the West Regional Rankings are going to look after this weekend as UW-SP and UW-Platteville lost, both to #5 UW-Whitewater? 
I'm wondering if this opens the door for UPS to pass one of the two losing teams, but then again losing to the #5 team in a close game might not hurt either one enough.  I think if UPS wins out through the tournament they have a chance to jump up to 3rd or maybe 2nd in the West, but without further losses for Stevens Point or St. Thomas (which I don't anticipate) I think our relatively weak conference this year will keep the Loggers from anything higher than a 3rd or 4th seed.

In what Universe is a conference that has more than 1/2 it's teams over .500 a weak one?

My bad, I meant weak when compared to the WIAC which I was discussing.  Three teams in the top 5?

Yeah, but by the WIAC's standards everyone else in D3 is "relatively weak".
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 16, 2009, 02:36:46 PM
So, Mr. Sager, you know stuff!  How often do the Wisconsin teams make it to the Final Four?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2009, 03:41:58 PM
2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 16, 2009, 03:58:27 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 16, 2009, 08:25:14 PM
Oh, my, thinking about the Stevens Point game in Tacoma still gives me a little heartburn.  That was a great UPS team, and the Pointers tortured the Loggers.  It was hard to watch, and given the quality of that UPS team, almost unbelievable how UWSP's strength and discipline just killed the Logs. 

I'd not thought about this before, but eyeballing things it seems like there are quite a few more public institutions with D3 athletic programs in the midwest than there are in the west.  I wonder how this shapes recruiting.....



 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2009, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2009, 03:41:58 PM
2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)
Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 16, 2009, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2009, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2009, 03:41:58 PM
2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)
Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.

This arguement has been made before, mostly by logger fans, lol.  But I think it simply has to to with meeting the requirements.  However, the differences are quite staggering.  I think undergrad enrollment is around 12,000.  Does that give them unfair advantages in recuirting as far as admission and cost of school.  possibly. Of course there are small D1 like Butler (like 4,300).

There aren't many D2 and NAIA schools in the midwest.  So it does give the WIAC schools somewhat of an advantage, because they don't have to complete against other schools giving scholorships.

All that being said...UPS went to UW-Stout last year and dominated them.  Honestly, I think the top of the WIAC is exceptionally good, and UPS would have to play one heck of a game to beat them.  But, the middle to bottom half aren't anything special, I think UPS would have lots of success against them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2009, 11:04:07 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2009, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2009, 03:41:58 PM
2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)
Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.

Enrollment per se has NOTHING to do with it.  This isn't high school where athletes try out from the student body.  They are specifically recruited.  It matters not a whit whether the school has 500 or 25,000 students; it matters how good in recruiting the coaches are.

WIAC schools DO have certain advantages over most privates - lower tuition and lower admission requirements (though, especially these days, I suspect some privates will take anyone with a pulse and adequate finances).  But also recognize that they far from the only public schools in d3.

And my understanding is that there is not a chance in the world that WIAC will go d2 - a political impossibility.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 16, 2009, 11:11:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2009, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2009, 03:41:58 PM
2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)
Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.

Stay away from the hornets' nest!  WIAC people are really sensitive about this topic, because it gets brought up over and over again.

In fact, over on the football board, we had this argument a couple of months ago when Willamette came up against Whitewater in the playoffs.  I'm not so sure enrollment is as much of a factor as facilities, funding, and admissions factors are.  Of course, with bigger enrollment you have a much bigger alumni base, so there's something to be said there as well.  So while I definitely think that schools like those in the WIAC have a leg up one someone like Willamette or UPS, I wouldn't go so far as to say that they need to go D2.

(As much as I would like them to.) ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 01:06:21 AM
Their endowments don't reflect the impact of a big enrollment base.

I think facilities -- at some D3 state schools but certainly not all -- are one place that a state school could have a big advantage.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on February 17, 2009, 01:19:12 AM
I think there are only 2 or 3 D2 schools in the entire state of Wisconsin(Viterbo, Parkside for sure).  This is the WIAC's biggest advantage coupled with the lower than avg tuition vs most D3 privates.

I believe the WIAC's are the only state schools in the Midwest anywhere.

The SUNYAC and NJAC also have state schools, neither has success at the level the WIAC has had.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2009, 01:27:42 AM
Facilities will often be a plus.  Lower tuition will generally be a plus (though the net cost differential is far less than the 'retail' differential).  But 'funding' is a very iffy advantage for the state schools in this era where 42 states are in deficit, and d3 state schools generally have endowments in 7 digits, not 8, 9, or 10 like many (certainly not all) privates.

And while I have no direct knowledge, I'll guess that it may be easier to get into a WIAC school than into (at least some of) NWC schools.  If so, that could widen the recruiting pool a great deal.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 17, 2009, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2009, 01:27:42 AM
And while I have no direct knowledge, I'll guess that it may be easier to get into a WIAC school than into (at least some of) NWC schools.  If so, that could widen the recruiting pool a great deal.

According to the Princeton Review, 30% of the incoming freshmen at UW-Whitewater had GPAs *under* 3.0. Repeat: THIRTY PERCENT of the freshmen at Whitewater didn't carry a B average in high school. Only 9% of the Whitewater freshmen were in the top 10th of their HS class. At UW-Stevens Point only 15% were in the top 10th, and at Platteville it was only only 12%. By contrast, 40% of the freshmen at Puget Sound were in the top 10th of their HS class, more than the 3 UW schools combined.

QuoteAdmissions Selectivity Ratings
Lewis & Clark 94
Puget Sound 90
Whitworth 89
Linfield 86
.
.
.
Stevens Point 75
Platteville 66
Whitewater 66

With low admissions standards, low in-state tuition, and large student bodies, the students at UW schools are like the girls at a Linfield frat party -- dumb, cheap and plentiful.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 11:38:24 AM
Thankfully there are institutions that are not so elitist that they refuse to educate people who didn't get a B average in high school.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2009, 01:23:56 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 16, 2009, 08:25:14 PM
I'd not thought about this before, but eyeballing things it seems like there are quite a few more public institutions with D3 athletic programs in the midwest than there are in the west.  I wonder how this shapes recruiting.....

Actually, there are a lot more D3 public schools in the northeast than there are in the midwest. The only midwestern D3 publics are the nine WIAC schools. In the northeast, there's the SUNYAC schools, the NJAC schools, the CUNYAC schools, the Little Eight schools, the MASCAC schools, etc.

Quote from: LogShow on February 16, 2009, 10:30:12 PM
There aren't many D2 and NAIA schools in the midwest.  So it does give the WIAC schools somewhat of an advantage, because they don't have to complete against other schools giving scholorships.

There are actually quite a few D2s and NAIAs in the midwest. Three of D2's largest leagues are midwest-based, and there are lots of NAIA leagues as well. It's just that Wisconsin in particular has a relative dearth of small-college scholarship schools.

Quote from: LogShow on February 16, 2009, 10:30:12 PM
All that being said...UPS went to UW-Stout last year and dominated them.  Honestly, I think the top of the WIAC is exceptionally good, and UPS would have to play one heck of a game to beat them.  But, the middle to bottom half aren't anything special, I think UPS would have lots of success against them.

You're badly underestimating the middle and bottom of the WIAC, LogShow. The reason why the WIAC is so dominant every year is because it's strong from top to bottom. Go to the schedules pages and check out the overall WIAC records over the past few seasons by clicking on the standings link. You'll be amazed at the non-conference records that the bottom half of the WIAC has racked up.

Quote from: sac on February 17, 2009, 01:19:12 AM
I think there are only 2 or 3 D2 schools in the entire state of Wisconsin(Viterbo, Parkside for sure).  This is the WIAC's biggest advantage coupled with the lower than avg tuition vs most D3 privates.

UW-Parkside is the only D2 school in l'etat de fromage. Viterbo is an NAIA school, as is Cardinal Stritch (a Milwaukee-based member of the Chicagoland Collegiate Athletic Conference). I don't know if those two schools give out basketball scholies, and if they do, how much they give out. I do know that neither Viterbo nor Cardinal Stritch ever puts a team on the floor that's any match for a WIAC school.

Yeah, I'd say that low tuition and the relative lack of small-college scholarship competition within Wisconsin are two of the WIAC's four biggest advantages. The other two are superior facilities (as compared to local D3 privates) and tradition -- many WIAC schools have long histories of success both on the D3 and the NAIA levels, going back decades, and they're relatively familiar parts of the Wisconsin winter sports landscape.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2009, 01:27:42 AM
Facilities will often be a plus.  Lower tuition will generally be a plus (though the net cost differential is far less than the 'retail' differential).

Short-term, yes. Long-term, no. You might not be paying a huge amount more out-of-pocket to go to a private than a public, but those loans that you'll have to take out to attend a private will come due sooner than you think.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2009, 01:27:42 AMBut 'funding' is a very iffy advantage for the state schools in this era where 42 states are in deficit, and d3 state schools generally have endowments in 7 digits, not 8, 9, or 10 like many (certainly not all) privates.

Very true as far as state funding issues are concerned. But you might be surprised at some of the WIAC endowments, Chuck:

UWEC29.7m
UWSP15.6m
UWW14.3m
UWL11.0m
UWSup  7.7m
UWP  2.7m
UWO  0.35m
UWSt  n/a
UWRF  n/a

While substantially less than MWC endowments, those WIAC figures are fairly comparable to the war chests of their in-state NAthCon neighbors.

Quote from: OxyBob on February 17, 2009, 11:07:06 AM
With low admissions standards, low in-state tuition, and large student bodies, the students at UW schools are like the girls at a Linfield frat party -- dumb, cheap and plentiful.

That Dale Carnegie course is working wonders for you, O-Bob.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 17, 2009, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 17, 2009, 11:07:06 AMWith low admissions standards, low in-state tuition, and large student bodies, the students at UW schools are like the girls at a Linfield frat party -- dumb, cheap and plentiful.

OxyBob

OB, you just made my year! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2009, 03:21:07 PM
Maybe I am underestimating them...but I guess that's just what I think.  LC, who has done slightly above average gave UW-WW a good game earlier this year.  I mean, it is tough to compare unless you actually play each other.  I would love for UPS to have had a shot to play the top 3 teams from the WIAC this year.  And I am sure they will in the NCAA. 

In the past UPS has had some success against WIAC schools, other then UW-SP.  They beat UW-Stout handily last year.  And also beat UW-River Falls, back when they had Melzer and won the WIAC regular season title.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
Two games out of an entire decade is a mighty small sample size, LS. But even if those wins over UW-Stout in '07-'08 and UWRF in '03-'04 are conceded to be an accurate barometer, it really says more about how good Puget Sound has been in recent seasons than it does about the WIAC as a whole.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2009, 06:19:35 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
Two games out of an entire decade is a mighty small sample size, LS. But even if those wins over UW-Stout in '07-'08 and UWRF in '03-'04 are conceded to be an accurate barometer, it really says more about how good Puget Sound has been in recent seasons than it does about the WIAC as a whole.

It is a small sample size.  I guess what I was really trying to get at is the fact that it would be very interesting to see how UPS would fair in the WIAC.  I wasn't trying to argue that the middle/bottom of the WIAC is bad, just that I think UPS would be able to compete with the top teams in the WIAC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on February 17, 2009, 08:50:28 PM



With low admissions standards, low in-state tuition, and large student bodies, the students at UW schools are like the girls at a Linfield frat party -- dumb, cheap and plentiful.

OxyBob


  See you on the 19th Bob ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 12:04:24 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 01:06:21 AM
I think facilities -- at some D3 state schools but certainly not all -- are one place that a state school could have a big advantage.
Sure and 5000 fans in the stands for a Tournament game might help as well.  But I dont know and don't care to look it up...How big are the facilities for hoops in the WIAC?

As for recruiting, entrance standards play into the makeup of a team and program on so many levels.  You can specifically recruit a player but that player must adapt to more than a basketball court at the school of their choice.   The breath and depth of the offerings at a school of 12,000 MUST be greater than of one a third it's size.  If the WIAC is an oddball and doesn't fit up or down or left or right because of state politics...fine but I know for a fact there are quite a few D2 schools in Washington, Oregon and California that have VERY similiar profiles to those of WIAC institutions.

Finally, what is the WIAC's record against D2 schools over the past say 10 years?  Someone knows this.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2009, 12:54:23 AM
The CCIW consists of private, selective, expensive, small schools, who (unlike most folks griping about WIAC schools) frequently go head-to-head in recruiting battles.  Almost never do I see CCIW posters whining that the WIAC should go d2.

We'd rather beat 'em (which we do fairly often) than get rid of 'em. ;)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 01:12:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2009, 12:54:23 AM
The CCIW consists of private, selective, expensive, small schools, who (unlike most folks griping about WIAC schools) frequently go head-to-head in recruiting battles.  Almost never do I see CCIW posters whining that the WIAC should go d2.

We'd rather beat 'em (which we do fairly often) than get rid of 'em. ;)

You can accuse me of whining, knock yourself out.  I am just trying to figure out why one conference has dominated a division of NCAA basketball for a decade or longer and do they have any particular advantage.  Your CCIW is a very good conference, I am glad you are so proud of it.  How often do you beat the WIAC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2009, 02:31:44 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 01:12:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2009, 12:54:23 AM
The CCIW consists of private, selective, expensive, small schools, who (unlike most folks griping about WIAC schools) frequently go head-to-head in recruiting battles.  Almost never do I see CCIW posters whining that the WIAC should go d2.

We'd rather beat 'em (which we do fairly often) than get rid of 'em. ;)

You can accuse me of whining, knock yourself out.  I am just trying to figure out why one conference has dominated a division of NCAA basketball for a decade or longer and do they have any particular advantage.  Your CCIW is a very good conference, I am glad you are so proud of it.  How often do you beat the WIAC?

In men's bball, I'd imagine it is right around 50-50.

The WIAC DOES have some inherent advantages, but I don't think they have dominated d3 men's basketball (certainly not to the extent that Mount Union (a small, private school, with a lousy basketball team ;)) has dominated d3 football. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 18, 2009, 02:43:20 PM
Back to some NWC talk, below is my recap of last weekend's games for the Bearcats:

http://www.willamettecollegian.com/2009/02/18/mitchell-ushers-men-back-into-playoff-race/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 18, 2009, 03:30:30 PM
How about this scenario? Conference finishes with UPS in first at 16-0. WW beats LC to finish at 12-4. LC beats Whitman and loses to WW to finish in third at 10-6. Linfield or Willamette finishes in fourth at 9-7. Then the fun starts in the conference playoffs...UPS beats Linfield or Willamette and LC goes to Spokompton and beats WW then takes down UPS in the conference final to win the auto-bid to the tournament. Meanwhile, UPS gets in because they still finish up with just one in-region loss. WW gets in with an at-large bid as they finish 20-5 and and LC gets the auto bid as the NWC playoff champ. It is crazy, but it could happen! It might not play out exactly that way but I guess my point is that we could possibly get three teams in if UPS and WW get at large bids and another team gets the auto-bid. That being said...what are everyone's thoughts on WW getting an at-large bid? Is there a chance for them if they were to lose before the conference final or even in the conference final to UPS?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:13:04 PM
I think UPS is a lock no matter what they do last 2 or 3 games.  WW will only get an at large if there is enough pool C's available after, hopefully, not to many under-qualified teams upset and win their conference auto (like LC would have to do).  No way NWC sends 3, but I would'a said no way WW hosts a game and gets a bye like the did last year. 

If WW wins next 2 and loses to UPS a third time, I don't see the committee giving WW a 4th crack at UPS in a regional pod.  They would get sent to somewhere like  WIAC/CCIW land or nowhere at all.  WW represented pretty well last year and that won't be forgotten.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 18, 2009, 07:32:54 PM
Pio20 - your scenario doesn't work out.  If you do beat Wman and lose at Whitworth, while Linfield beats Pacific and PLU at home - both teams finish 10-6.  In that case Linfield gets #3 and comes to Spokane and L&C ends up at UPS in the first round.

If Linfield wins twice, then L&C has to win twice this weekend to avoid the #4 seed.  If so, L&C gets the #2 seed and hosts Whitworth in the first round.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 18, 2009, 07:41:41 PM
Also, if UPS finishes 16-0, that means they've beaten Willamette, who would finish 8-8 at best and out of the playoffs, since Linfield wins the tiebreaker with the Bearcats by virtue of the Wildcats win over Whitworth.

Unless of course, L&C wins out and finishes second - then the Bearcats would take the tiebreaker.

If this isn't enough to make you're head spin . . .
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 18, 2009, 07:41:41 PM
Also, if UPS finishes 16-0, that means they've beaten Willamette, who would finish 8-8 at best and out of the playoffs, since Linfield wins the tiebreaker with the Bearcats by virtue of the Wildcats win over Whitworth.

Unless of course, L&C wins out and finishes second - then the Bearcats would take the tiebreaker.

If this isn't enough to make you're head spin . . .
Actually,I think last year was worse with one week to go...UPS, WW, and Linfield look real good.  LC doesnt look bad.  WIL is the team that needs help and an unlikely win vs UPS...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 18, 2009, 08:42:34 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 18, 2009, 07:41:41 PM
Also, if UPS finishes 16-0, that means they've beaten Willamette, who would finish 8-8 at best and out of the playoffs, since Linfield wins the tiebreaker with the Bearcats by virtue of the Wildcats win over Whitworth.

Unless of course, L&C wins out and finishes second - then the Bearcats would take the tiebreaker.

If this isn't enough to make you're head spin . . .
Actually,I think last year was worse with one week to go...UPS, WW, and Linfield look real good.  LC doesnt look bad.  WIL is the team that needs help and an unlikely win vs UPS...



Agreed on all counts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 10:17:18 PM
hey pinecone, why the Sunday game?  Do you know?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 18, 2009, 11:12:56 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:13:04 PM
WW represented pretty well last year and that won't be forgotten.

Apparently history is not a factor as was mentioned about a month ago or so.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 18, 2009, 11:29:09 PM
pio sorry to bust your bubble, but there is no way in hell that the NWC gets 3 teams into the NCAA tournament. there is likely to be a number of upsets in conference tournaments and those precious at large bids will get snapped up real quick. one more loss for WW puts them at 6 in region losses and will almost surely knock them out of the regional rankings there are 18 at large bids, more than likely 1 or 2 will go to WIACs and if your scenario plays out a 3rd will go to ups. that leaves 15 bids for the rest of D3. I think we all should be concerned with this coming weekend instead of coming up with hypotheticals, once the smoke has cleared and we know who is making their conference tournaments and who is getting automatic bids (for conferences w/o a tourney) then we can start making predictions. a lot of who makes the tourney depends on how everybody else does from around the country.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 18, 2009, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:13:04 PM
I think UPS is a lock no matter what they do last 2 or 3 games.  WW will only get an at large if there is enough pool C's available after, hopefully, not to many under-qualified teams upset and win their conference auto (like LC would have to do).  No way NWC sends 3, but I would'a said no way WW hosts a game and gets a bye like the did last year. 

i believe that WWs bye last year was simply because of the NCAAs penny pinching tendencies. WW was better than the 2 SCIACs that faced each otehr and that is why you hosted similar to UPS having a bye and hosting in 2006
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 19, 2009, 01:56:07 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 18, 2009, 07:32:54 PM
Pio20 - your scenario doesn't work out.  If you do beat Wman and lose at Whitworth, while Linfield beats Pacific and PLU at home - both teams finish 10-6.  In that case Linfield gets #3 and comes to Spokane and L&C ends up at UPS in the first round.

If Linfield wins twice, then L&C has to win twice this weekend to avoid the #4 seed.  If so, L&C gets the #2 seed and hosts Whitworth in the first round.

I didn't say Linfield would necessarily win out. I was just thinking out loud. The teams don't have to be the ones I mentioned. Basically I was seeing what you guys thought about that scenario that if any other team besides UPS and WW gets the auto-bid...then would the NWC get three teams in possibly?

Quote from: logshock101 on February 18, 2009, 11:29:09 PM
there is likely to be a number of upsets in conference tournaments and those precious at large bids will get snapped up real quick. a lot of who makes the tourney depends on how everybody else does from around the country.

good point logshock
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2009, 01:58:40 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 18, 2009, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:13:04 PM
I think UPS is a lock no matter what they do last 2 or 3 games.  WW will only get an at large if there is enough pool C's available after, hopefully, not to many under-qualified teams upset and win their conference auto (like LC would have to do).  No way NWC sends 3, but I would'a said no way WW hosts a game and gets a bye like the did last year. 

i believe that WWs bye last year was simply because of the NCAAs penny pinching tendencies. WW was better than the 2 SCIACs that faced each otehr and that is why you hosted similar to UPS having a bye and hosting in 2006

And this could quite reasonably happen again this year with UPS getting a bye again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 19, 2009, 02:00:10 AM
Really looking forward to this weekend's games.  Pac and Willamette have tradionally been tough places for UPS to play.  I am hoping the strong senior leadership with get the Logs through those games so they can make some history!  Almost playoff time !!! 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2009, 03:45:10 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 18, 2009, 11:12:56 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:13:04 PM
WW represented pretty well last year and that won't be forgotten.

Apparently history is not a factor as was mentioned about a month ago or so.
I would tend to believe in a coin toss scenario, it would creep into the committees mind.  Now is a coin flip scenario a possibilty in this day and age of statistics and geography?  Yes, it is very slight, but possible.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 19, 2009, 03:12:57 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 19, 2009, 01:58:40 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 18, 2009, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2009, 07:13:04 PM
I think UPS is a lock no matter what they do last 2 or 3 games.  WW will only get an at large if there is enough pool C's available after, hopefully, not to many under-qualified teams upset and win their conference auto (like LC would have to do).  No way NWC sends 3, but I would'a said no way WW hosts a game and gets a bye like the did last year. 

i believe that WWs bye last year was simply because of the NCAAs penny pinching tendencies. WW was better than the 2 SCIACs that faced each otehr and that is why you hosted similar to UPS having a bye and hosting in 2006

And this could quite reasonably happen again this year with UPS getting a bye again.

That could very well happen especially if the loggers finish conference 16-0 where theyd only have the posibility of 1 in region loss max
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 19, 2009, 03:33:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2009, 12:06:50 PM
Guys, remember that none of these things -- history, respect, money, or the d3hoops.com poll -- dictate who gets into the tournament and who doesn't. The D3 selection committee operates according to a well-defined formula in terms of picking Pool C (at-large) teams.

this is the only reason why i have to disagree with your belief that there is even a slight chance of a coin flip scenario.

GS has got too much knowledge. The man's got 8 stars by his name, 8! I feel like disagreeing with him is about the equivilant to mobb deep (some okay rappers) dissing Jay-Z (a great one)  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2009, 04:48:23 PM
Uh, thanks ... I think. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 19, 2009, 05:59:25 PM
Don't be too intimidated by the number of stars, Logshock -- it just means someone posts a lot of comments.   Having a lot to say and knowing a lot -- well, they're different.  Not to discount Sager's knowledge because he definitely knows stuff!!

But, it's an Equal Opportunity board -- we get to say what we think and either look bright or stupid depending on the outcome of what we predict!!

That being said, I'm just so hoping that the Bearcats are not done yet!  It's someone's job to beat UPS this year in the regular season & it just seems it's coming down to the Bearcats.  First they have to take care of business at George Fox and then, it's home cookin!!  So, go Bearcats -- make us proud.

It'll be interesting to see how the Pios do against Whitman -- they're really playing well right now.  It's a great weekend for basketball in the NWC!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 19, 2009, 06:03:42 PM
I'm still mad at George Fox for the "God still loves you" chant that their students started when it was finally clear the Bearcats would lose last month. >:(

We're due to be on the right end of a good old-fashioned blowout.  Let's take care of business, Willamette.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 19, 2009, 07:03:08 PM
If a team besides WW or UPS wins the auto-bid, UPS gets in of course and I think that basically just means WW gets snubbed for the at-large.  I just don't see three teams from the NWC getting in.  If UPS wins the tournament I can still see WW getting the at-large, but three teams seems impossible to me.

As far as UPS getting a bye in 2006, wasn't that a result of them being the #1 seed in their bracket?  I don't know how this works exactly in D3...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 19, 2009, 09:33:51 PM
Five scenarios that could see the Bearcats make the playoffs, courtesy of Assistant Coach Kip Ioane.  Four of them involve Willamette sweeping this weekend.  As much as I love the Bearcats, I'm just not sure that's going to happen.  If the 'Cats are going to make the playoffs, I'm thinking it'll be by Scenario 4.

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/article/2009/02/kips_corner_5.xml

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong! ;D  GO BEARCATS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 19, 2009, 09:51:05 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 19, 2009, 06:03:42 PM
I'm still mad at George Fox for the "God still loves you" chant that their students started when it was finally clear the Bearcats would lose last month. >:(

We're due to be on the right end of a good old-fashioned blowout.  Let's take care of business, Willamette.

IMO that is a pretty funny chant considering Fox is a religious school
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2009, 01:32:38 AM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 19, 2009, 07:03:08 PM
If a team besides WW or UPS wins the auto-bid, UPS gets in of course and I think that basically just means WW gets snubbed for the at-large.  I just don't see three teams from the NWC getting in.  If UPS wins the tournament I can still see WW getting the at-large, but three teams seems impossible to me.

As far as UPS getting a bye in 2006, wasn't that a result of them being the #1 seed in their bracket?  I don't know how this works exactly in D3...

Yes and no.  UPS has gotten a bye each of the last 3 times they have gotten in the NCAA.  Each time they finished #1 in the west region, but are only like 4 byes.  So yes they did get it because they earned it, but they also got it because it saved the NCAA a few bucks too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 20, 2009, 02:48:05 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 19, 2009, 09:33:51 PM
Five scenarios that could see the Bearcats make the playoffs, courtesy of Assistant Coach Kip Ioane.  Four of them involve Willamette sweeping this weekend.  As much as I love the Bearcats, I'm just not sure that's going to happen.  If the 'Cats are going to make the playoffs, I'm thinking it'll be by Scenario 4.

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/article/2009/02/kips_corner_5.xml

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong! ;D  GO BEARCATS!

I dunno, BCP, I prefer the scenarios that include the Bearcats winning both of their games this weekend.  They CAN do it, but will they?  I really don't see Linfield losing twice at home in one weekend.  Their last game with Pacific was only determined by one point, so they could lose to Pacific.   Also, have you seen Whitworth play?  The Pios are going to have a lot to handle in the Pirate house on Sunday.  Now, it could be different since it's a Sunday afternoon game - there might not be the loud, student crowd that makes the fieldhouse rock --- that always helps Whitworth.

It will definitely shake out this weekend.  But, I think we'll all have to wait until Saturday to know anything but "who's in First."   ;D  UPS has that one!

It's really sad that WU's fate depends upon someone losing.   The best they can do is win out & hope for things to fall the right way!  Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 20, 2009, 10:30:23 AM
Quoteconsidering Fox is a religious school

Yes. a PEACEFUL religious school. Why start trouble, even at a sporting event?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2009, 11:08:06 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 20, 2009, 10:30:23 AM
Quoteconsidering Fox is a religious school

Yes. a PEACEFUL religious school. Why start trouble, even at a sporting event?

Because they were all hopped up on Red Bull and sugar cookies
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2009, 11:10:51 AM
bballaddict,

How much is it you just trying to convice yourself that the Bearcats might have a chance against the Logs?  I think it would make your entire season, but come on...we beat you by 38 points in the first meeting.  And that was with Cameron Mitchell not being in foul trouble.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 20, 2009, 11:23:26 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 19, 2009, 06:03:42 PM
I'm still mad at George Fox for the "God still loves you" chant that their students started when it was finally clear the Bearcats would lose last month.

At George Fox shouldn't the chant be "God still loves Thee"?

Don't be mad, BearcatPress, they are still your Friends.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 20, 2009, 01:27:56 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 20, 2009, 11:10:51 AM
bballaddict,

How much is it you just trying to convice yourself that the Bearcats might have a chance against the Logs?  I think it would make your entire season, but come on...we beat you by 38 points in the first meeting.  And that was with Cameron Mitchell not being in foul trouble.

I realize that.  I wasn't at that game, so I don't know what happened.  I know from being there at previous games that UPS is a tough venue.   I also know that the Bearcats are a good team when they play "team" basketball.  It's another team all together when they don't.   Any team can have a bad night--it's happened to the Bearcats and it CAN happen to you.   Mostly, I'm just hoping the Bearcats will step up and play really well & be the ones to beat the Loggers this season.   It can happen.  I hope I'm there when it does.

Besides, what do you want me to say?  Come, cream us?  A fan without HOPE is a worthless fan, indeed!

And, OxyBob -- they might be "Friends" but they're not our friends.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 20, 2009, 01:32:29 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 20, 2009, 11:23:26 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 19, 2009, 06:03:42 PM
I'm still mad at George Fox for the "God still loves you" chant that their students started when it was finally clear the Bearcats would lose last month.

At George Fox shouldn't the chant be "God still loves Thee"?

Don't be mad, BearcatPress, they are still your Friends.

OxyBob

You know OxyBob, that Friendly school got some pretty bad press last fall when some students hung an effigy of a certain Oxy alum now living in the White House from a tree on campus.  When I talked with some people I know there, the general reaction was "What?  It's not that big a deal."  Regardless of your political beliefs, you've got to see what's wrong with that picture.

(Seriously, I'll take Linfield over Fox seven days a week.  Except for football season.)

As for this weekend, I was thinking Scenario 4 mostly because it's the only that allows the Bearcats to split and still make it.  Of course, I'd like for nothing more than for UPS to come in overconfident . . .
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 20, 2009, 02:17:40 PM
No, no overconfidence from the team...probably from their fans though  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 20, 2009, 02:54:22 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 20, 2009, 01:32:29 PM

As for this weekend, I was thinking Scenario 4 mostly because it's the only that allows the Bearcats to split and still make it.  Of course, I'd like for nothing more than for UPS to come in overconfident . . .

Unfortunately for WU, I don't think that will happen.  Not saying WU can't win, but if they do, I don't think it will be because UPS is overconfident.  The Loggers have looked extremely mature and focused this season, never underestimating any of their opponents and not looking surprised or shocked when down.  For example, this past weekend when Whitman had a 9-19 lead and a 2 point lead at half time, the Loggers didn't look frustrated, they just went to the locker room and made the half time adjustment.  This has been the case this entire impressive season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 20, 2009, 02:58:22 PM
Oh, I don't think you're overconfident, Logs, you have a solid basis for your confidence in your team.  I'm just stubborn & refuse to give up unless I have to!  Besides, we play the game to see who will win--otherwise, we'd just vote or take a poll, right?

And UPS4Life, I want  "the real UPS" to show up.   I just want the Bearcat team that knows how to win to also show up -- then we'll have a game worth watching and the outcome may surprise you.  They're fierce rodent type creatures when they work together. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 20, 2009, 08:34:24 PM
So, who's going to win tonight?  Here's what I say:

UPS @ Pacific -- UPS but it will be a good game
WU @ Fox -- Willamette by 5, because God still loves them
PLU @ Linfield -- probably Linfield but I'd like to see PLU win it!
L&C @ Whitman -- Very close game, if Whitman plays like they did against Whitworth, they'll win it

So, what does everybody else think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 21, 2009, 01:37:11 AM
Willamette played really well tonight, IMO.  If they play that well tomorrow, they've got a shot.  Not a great shot, but a shot.  McClary was on fire the whole game - 23 points on 10-15 shooting - and Mitchell had 24 points with 21 rebounds.  Quote of the night from Assistant Coach Kip Ioane on Mike Allegre's postgame show:

"You can't have 14 turnovers against George Fox and expect to compete with Puget Sound."

The Bearcats clinched their first winning season since 2005-06, but if we do fall short tomorrow night, I think everyone's going to be wondering what the season might have been like had this team turned on the jets two or three weeks ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 03:24:18 AM
I liked Kip's unintentional jab at GFU, lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 03:24:45 AM
Chalk up another win for the Logs...15-0.  Almost there!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2009, 04:00:21 AM
Wow this could get complicated. I was going through the scenarios tomorrow and realized that much of the seeding will depend on what the lower half of the league does because if there are any ties that can't be determined by head-to-head competition then seeding depends on results against conference teams from last place up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 21, 2009, 01:37:11 AM
The Bearcats clinched their first winning season since 2005-06, but if we do fall short tomorrow night, I think everyone's going to be wondering what the season might have been like had this team turned on the jets two or three weeks ago.

So, BearcatPress, you need to do some research.  Where were you last year 2007-08 when WU finished 9-7 and won all the tie-breakers to be in third place and the NWC playoffs?   In fact, the only seasons in the last 10 years that they haven't had "winning seasons" has been 2000-01 and 2006-07, both rebuilding years.

There were quite a few turnovers tonight, but it was a great game!  I think they'll give UPS a run for their money tomorrow night and then we all have to hope that the Boxers get it done in McMinnville.  Go Boxers!

(Of course, the prize is another game at UPS . . . hmmm.)

So, who thinks L&C will beat Whitworth on Sunday?  

Pio20 -- Descending order means you start at the top.  Starting at the bottom would be ascending rank order.  If WU beats UPS -- that breaks any ties with Linfield cuz no one else has beaten UPS this year.  Then it's all about who's in 2nd, 3rd & 4th because UPS is obviously in 1st.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:07:35 AM
BTW I didn't hear any "God still loves you" chants at Fox tonight.   Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2009, 04:20:22 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
Pio20 -- Descending order means you start at the top.  Starting at the bottom would be ascending rank order.  If WU beats UPS -- that breaks any ties with Linfield cuz no one else has beaten UPS this year.  Then it's all about who's in 2nd, 3rd & 4th because UPS is obviously in 1st.

Oh yeah! Now I remember. I always think it is from the bottom up because of what happened to LC a couple of years ago when they lost the tiebreaker to WW for first place. But that was because the tie was for first place so there were no teams ahead of them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:32:25 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 21, 2009, 04:20:22 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
Pio20 -- Descending order means you start at the top.  Starting at the bottom would be ascending rank order.  If WU beats UPS -- that breaks any ties with Linfield cuz no one else has beaten UPS this year.  Then it's all about who's in 2nd, 3rd & 4th because UPS is obviously in 1st.

Oh yeah! Now I remember. I always think it is from the bottom up because of what happened to LC a couple of years ago when they lost the tiebreaker to WW for first place. But that was because the tie was for first place so there were no teams ahead of them.

Yeah, I remember that, too.   And, actually I think it used to be the other way around -- ascending order and they changed it.   Someone like Steve Flegel will know the answer to that one.  My brain doesn't keep stuff like that!

If Linfield wins against Pacific, Willamette is out no matter what.  So, once again -- GO Boxers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 21, 2009, 09:30:43 AM
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I think LC will NOT win Sunday.  WW can get the magic 20 wins and earn a home game.  That's plenty of incentive.  I understand the game is Sunday because LC had the option of Sat night or Sunday and chose an extra day of rest.  Didn't know the option existed but this what I have discovered.  Can't blame LC for not wanting to travel and play sames day, get an extra day of rest, more prep time, smaller crowd potential.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 21, 2009, 12:31:59 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
Quote from: BearcatPress on February 21, 2009, 01:37:11 AM
The Bearcats clinched their first winning season since 2005-06, but if we do fall short tomorrow night, I think everyone's going to be wondering what the season might have been like had this team turned on the jets two or three weeks ago.

So, BearcatPress, you need to do some research.  Where were you last year 2007-08 when WU finished 9-7 and won all the tie-breakers to be in third place and the NWC playoffs?   In fact, the only seasons in the last 10 years that they haven't had "winning seasons" has been 2000-01 and 2006-07, both rebuilding years.

There were quite a few turnovers tonight, but it was a great game!  I think they'll give UPS a run for their money tomorrow night and then we all have to hope that the Boxers get it done in McMinnville.  Go Boxers!

(Of course, the prize is another game at UPS . . . hmmm.)

So, who thinks L&C will beat Whitworth on Sunday?  

Pio20 -- Descending order means you start at the top.  Starting at the bottom would be ascending rank order.  If WU beats UPS -- that breaks any ties with Linfield cuz no one else has beaten UPS this year.  Then it's all about who's in 2nd, 3rd & 4th because UPS is obviously in 1st.

My research is fine - Willamette finished 9-7 in conference last year, but were 2-7 in the non-conference schedule.  From the conference website:

2006-07: 10-15, 6-10 NWC
2007-08: 11-15, 9-7 NWC
2008-09: 12-10, 8-7 NWC

I'm glad to know that we quieted down the Bruins faithful.  Their broadcasters (I was watching their video stream) mentioned that it was their homecoming weekend - all the better!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 21, 2009, 12:39:30 PM
I saw WW and LC in Tacoma this year, admittedly LC early in the conference season.  Both teams are well-coached.  I thought that WW's starting 5 looked better than LC's by quite a bit.  Tough game for LC in Spokane, I think--it'd be fun to see.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
(Of course, the prize is another game at UPS . . . hmmm.)


You wouldn't want that reward? :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 01:15:17 PM
Should be a fun day for hoops!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 21, 2009, 02:50:17 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
(Of course, the prize is another game at UPS . . . hmmm.)


You wouldn't want that reward? :D

I'd take it! :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 03:26:29 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
(Of course, the prize is another game at UPS . . . hmmm.)


You wouldn't want that reward? :D

Oh, I'll take it!   It's just funny that the reward for winning over UPS is another game with UPS.   We also really need the Boxers to come through and beat Linfield.

And BearcatPress, who cares about anything but Conference?  That's all that matters when it comes down to it.  Coach James usually schedules a pretty tough non-conference schedule to get his guys ready, so there are losses at the beginning of the season -- just about every year.  I'm pretty sure that if you talk to the coaches, they consider a winning conference season, a winning season.

So, Whitworth and Whitman will be seeing a lot of Sunday games next year, since we all know that's an option?  I never did figure out why teams combine those two locations in one weekend.   It's like playing PLU and Lewis & Clark on the same weekend.   They're not even close to each other, travel wise.  That's just a bad road trip.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 21, 2009, 04:09:12 PM
I'm nitpicking here, but does it bother anyone else that WW's coach always has his players bring their chairs out on the court for little conferences during timeouts?  He's done it for years and I find it very irritating.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 04:10:30 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 21, 2009, 04:09:12 PM
I'm nitpicking here, but does it bother anyone else that WW's coach always has his players bring their chairs out on the court for little conferences during timeouts?  He's done it for years and I find it very irritating.

Hayford definately has his quirks...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 05:02:29 PM
Last time I get to do this for the regular season this year.

Tonight's NWC games:

PLU @ GFU
Pacific @ Linfield
UPS @ Willamette
LC @ WW
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 21, 2009, 05:07:41 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 03:26:29 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2009, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 21, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
(Of course, the prize is another game at UPS . . . hmmm.)


You wouldn't want that reward? :D

Oh, I'll take it!   It's just funny that the reward for winning over UPS is another game with UPS.   We also really need the Boxers to come through and beat Linfield.

And BearcatPress, who cares about anything but Conference?  That's all that matters when it comes down to it.  Coach James usually schedules a pretty tough non-conference schedule to get his guys ready, so there are losses at the beginning of the season -- just about every year.  I'm pretty sure that if you talk to the coaches, they consider a winning conference season, a winning season.

So, Whitworth and Whitman will be seeing a lot of Sunday games next year, since we all know that's an option?  I never did figure out why teams combine those two locations in one weekend.   It's like playing PLU and Lewis & Clark on the same weekend.   They're not even close to each other, travel wise.  That's just a bad road trip.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 21, 2009, 05:12:57 PM
bbaddict,  fyi, the LC WW Sunday game came about as every year one team does not have a travel partner.  This year it is LC.  So since WW and WM do not have two games over the weekend that the single travelling team has to play both of them on the road, it made sense to give the travelling team at least a breather between the back to back games since the second home team did not have a Friday night game.  This year is appears to be a fairly important rest break.    It is great that three of the last four games still have playoff implications, altho after tonight, the LC-Whitworth picture will be pretty clear.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2009, 06:38:22 PM
"I'm nitpicking here, but does it bother anyone else that WW's coach always has his players bring their chairs out on the court for little conferences during timeouts?  He's done it for years and I find it very irritating."

Seriously?  Seriously?  It must really be grating on your nerves when he talks to his players during free throws, or takes advantage of other coaching opportunities.

He explained it once at an athletics lunch gathering.  When he's in timeout, he never knows which player might have to come out suddenly once the game restarts (foul, injury, who knows).  So he wants EVERY player to hear what he is saying, and to be able to make eye contact.  By pulling out the chairs, every player gets the same view of what he's drawing up.  Frankly I don't know why other coaches are comfortable only talking to five or six players, with the other guys standing behind.  In many of our gyms (not all), those guys won't be able to catch everything said - and when you watch those players' faces many are tuned out anyway.

I'm surprised more coaches don't do it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 21, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 21, 2009, 06:38:22 PM
"I'm nitpicking here, but does it bother anyone else that WW's coach always has his players bring their chairs out on the court for little conferences during timeouts?  He's done it for years and I find it very irritating."

Seriously?  Seriously?  It must really be grating on your nerves when he talks to his players during free throws, or takes advantage of other coaching opportunities.

He explained it once at an athletics lunch gathering.  When he's in timeout, he never knows which player might have to come out suddenly once the game restarts (foul, injury, who knows).  So he wants EVERY player to hear what he is saying, and to be able to make eye contact.  By pulling out the chairs, every player gets the same view of what he's drawing up.  Frankly I don't know why other coaches are comfortable only talking to five or six players, with the other guys standing behind.  In many of our gyms (not all), those guys won't be able to catch everything said - and when you watch those players' faces many are tuned out anyway.

I'm surprised more coaches don't do it.

so are u saying that when teams huddle around their coach they can't hear what he's saying? "jack" only ever plays 7-8 guys so does it really matter that EVERY player can hear him? if you're not gonna go in the game who cares if you hear the coach
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 21, 2009, 08:09:06 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 21, 2009, 04:09:12 PM
I'm nitpicking here, but does it bother anyone else that WW's coach always has his players bring their chairs out on the court for little conferences during timeouts?  He's done it for years and I find it very irritating.
ha i agree with you. leave the chairs off the floor
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 21, 2009, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 21, 2009, 04:09:12 PM
I'm nitpicking here, but does it bother anyone else that WW's coach always has his players bring their chairs out on the court for little conferences during timeouts?  He's done it for years and I find it very irritating.
Yes you are nitpicking and that's okay.  I don't think his reasons for doing it are all that important.  The question is does it bother anyone else and my answer is no.  It doesn't bother me.  It is different, he must feel it has a benefit, and finally it's not against the rules.  The court is not some shrine or delicate surface so I ask why does it irritate you? 

logshock101, "jack"?...what's that from?  I don't get the nickname.  The rest of that comment is a nomination for most absurd comment of the year.  Ask any coach what he thinks if he sees a player tuning out or not paying attention while he's talking.  That player might very well never dress for that coach EVER again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 12:33:57 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 21, 2009, 09:24:29 PM
logshock101, "jack"?...what's that from?  I don't get the nickname.  The rest of that comment is a nomination for most absurd comment of the year.  Ask any coach what he thinks if he sees a player tuning out or not paying attention while he's talking.  That player might very well never dress for that coach EVER again.

someone called hayford, jack on the board quite a while ago just a running joke amongst friends and i was seeing if anybody enjoyed it as much as i did.

as for the rest of my post, if im coaching. the only people im really concerned about are the ones who are going to be in the game. do i care if the 12th man knows the OB play were running coming out of a timeout? no, why would i? i know hes not going in and he knows hes not going in, so honestly who cares? people zoneout all the time, especially when they know they aren't going into the game, a coach would have to be pretty ridiculous to not a dress a kid for doing that
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2009, 01:10:28 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 12:33:57 AM

as for the rest of my post, if im coaching. the only people im really concerned about are the ones who are going to be in the game. do i care if the 12th man knows the OB play were running coming out of a timeout? no, why would i? i know hes not going in and he knows hes not going in, so honestly who cares? people zoneout all the time, especially when they know they aren't going into the game, a coach would have to be pretty ridiculous to not a dress a kid for doing that
I'm just gonna guess you were not a college basketball player and if I am wrong and you were, I'm thinking 12th man.

Oh and BTW Willamette played upset basketball until the last 2 minutes.  Too bad, UPS losing might have gotten into there head.  Good luck next year WU.

Go Pirates on Sunday...that just sounds odd.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 22, 2009, 01:42:23 AM
Gutted.  Absolutely, positively gutted.  That's about how I feel right now.  To have an eight point lead with four minutes left and lose is just . . . devastating.

Turnovers, bad shot selection, and some BIG no-calls by the officials (i.e. getting mugged by two Loggers and called for a travel) really turned the tide.  And I really question the call with eight seconds left.  Kunke didn't have his feet set, but Williams definitely threw out an arm.

That being said, to have Cam Mitchell's putback literally SIT on the rim and then fall off as time expired was just heartbreaking.  Literally an inch away from the upset of the year.

Damn.  This is going to be tough to get over.  Next year, 'Cats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 01:54:01 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2009, 01:10:28 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 12:33:57 AM

as for the rest of my post, if im coaching. the only people im really concerned about are the ones who are going to be in the game. do i care if the 12th man knows the OB play were running coming out of a timeout? no, why would i? i know hes not going in and he knows hes not going in, so honestly who cares? people zoneout all the time, especially when they know they aren't going into the game, a coach would have to be pretty ridiculous to not a dress a kid for doing that
I'm just gonna guess you were not a college basketball player and if I am wrong and you were, I'm thinking 12th man.

Oh and BTW Willamette played upset basketball until the last 2 minutes.  Too bad, UPS losing might have gotten into there head.  Good luck next year WU.

Go Pirates on Sunday...that just sounds odd.

according to mtnman im a intermural all star  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 01:55:23 AM
great comeback win for the loggers. showed a lot of heart. krauel played like a beast tonight. williams hit 2 huge fts. 16-0 congrats guys!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 22, 2009, 01:56:50 AM
Now that I've had a chance to sit and think some more . . .

Nothing but the highest compliments to the Loggers.  You guys showed why you're ranked sixth in the country and why you went 16-0 in the conference.  You played a great game on both ends of the court, and showed tremendous poise under pressure.  Also respect to Antwan Williams, for putting up with our ribbing all night and nailing clutch free throws at the end.

Fantastic game.  Just wish it could have turned the other way.  I'll be pulling for you Logs all the way.  Go bring something home at the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2009, 02:09:03 AM
Quote from: oldnwcer on February 21, 2009, 05:12:57 PM
bbaddict,  fyi, the LC WW Sunday game came about as every year one team does not have a travel partner.  This year it is LC.  So since WW and WM do not have two games over the weekend that the single travelling team has to play both of them on the road, it made sense to give the travelling team at least a breather between the back to back games since the second home team did not have a Friday night game.  This year is appears to be a fairly important rest break.    It is great that three of the last four games still have playoff implications, altho after tonight, the LC-Whitworth picture will be pretty clear.

Yes, but Whitworth & Whitman played each other on Tuesday, which makes two games for the week, anyway, so your argument doesn't even make sense.  I just didn't know they could split it up like that.

As far as WU playing upset basketball until the last two minutes.  I think it's because our announcer guy knew that Linfield had won their game (with 5 minutes left in ours) and was telling people around him.   He's right next to the bench, so I  don't know how they could not have known.  It seemed like the wind was taken out of their sails.  Maybe they were just tired . . . but, who knows?

UPS played a great game tonight -- so did the Bearcats.  It certainly wasn't the blowout that Logs was predicting. 

It'll be interesting to see how the playoffs work out.

Bearcats -- you had a great season.   Next year!  Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 22, 2009, 02:25:51 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2009, 02:09:03 AM
As far as WU playing upset basketball until the last two minutes.  I think it's because our announcer guy knew that Linfield had won their game (with 5 minutes left in ours) and was telling people around him.   He's right next to the bench, so I  don't know how they could not have known.  It seemed like the wind was taken out of their sails.  Maybe they were just tired . . . but, who knows?

:o

:-[

:'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2009, 03:38:07 AM
BearcatPress -- you are priceless!!  Thanks for the laugh on a sad night!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2009, 05:11:52 AM
Sooooo if LC loses tomorrow night and both them and Linfield end up at 10-6 who will get the tiebreaker? They will have split head-to-head and against Whitworth and UPS...so does it go to games against Willamette?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 22, 2009, 05:48:42 AM
I was just wondering if it bothered anyone else, or just me, what WW's coach does, I never said it was against the rules or anything, it just bothers me as a fan of the opposing team because it feels gimmicky, but I'm sure he has good reasons for doing it, the coaches in the NWC are quite professional for the most part.

Congrats to Willamette for putting up such an incredible game.  Major props to the Loggers, these seniors have been playing at a high level for four years now and this is the culmination of all their effort and experience, they deserve it and I hope they can go far in the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2009, 06:10:49 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 22, 2009, 05:11:52 AM
Sooooo if LC loses tomorrow night and both them and Linfield end up at 10-6 who will get the tiebreaker? They will have split head-to-head and against Whitworth and UPS...so does it go to games against Willamette?
1. Head to Head competition in conference games only
2. Results against conference teams in descending rank order   

SO YES, RESULTS AGAINST #5 WILLAMETTE WOULD BE THE DECIDING FACTOR. 
WILLAMETTE BEAT LC BOTH TIMES AND SPLIT WITH LINFIELD

#3 SEED LINFIELD
#4 SEED LC

OTHER TIE BREAKERS...

3. Best conference road record
4. Sempert System in conference games
5. Record versus non-conference common opponents at a common site
6. Pre-arranged draw by Athletics Directors at the fall meeting
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 22, 2009, 12:32:41 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 22, 2009, 02:09:03 AM
Quote from: oldnwcer on February 21, 2009, 05:12:57 PM
bbaddict,  fyi, the LC WW Sunday game came about as every year one team does not have a travel partner.  This year it is LC.  So since WW and WM do not have two games over the weekend that the single travelling team has to play both of them on the road, it made sense to give the travelling team at least a breather between the back to back games since the second home team did not have a Friday night game.  This year is appears to be a fairly important rest break.    It is great that three of the last four games still have playoff implications, altho after tonight, the LC-Whitworth picture will be pretty clear.

Yes, but Whitworth & Whitman played each other on Tuesday, which makes two games for the week, anyway, so your argument doesn't even make sense.  I just didn't know they could split it up like that.

bb:

I don't tkink you read old's post close enough.  The point was not how many games in a week each team plays, it is how many games over two days.  Playing back to back on Fri and Sat nights is tough enough, but when one team gets to sit and watch on Fri the team they will play on Sat, that is an advantage.  Compound that with the long trip from OR to east WA, it becomes more of an advantage.  Moving the game to Sun evens the playing field a little bit.   Soooo, your argument that old's argument doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense. ;)

I heard from the GF coach that they couldn't do this before as it was introduced this year by the coaches.

Congrats to UPS for a historic season!  Congrats to Lin for making the playoffs after a long time!  Congrats to LC for making the playoffs after the loss of their best player!  (Only UPS could lose their best player and not suffer greatly because of their depth). 

And congrats to Wil for their effort against UPS!  And, sorry to Wil fans, but shame on Wil for putting themselves in a postion of needing to beat UPS to get into the playoffs.  They are just too good of a team to be out of the playoffs, talent and experience wise.  I don't know if it is the players or coaches fault for missing the playoffs, but they should have been there.  I had them finishing 3rd in my preseason thinking.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 01:33:39 PM
didnt read all the posts carefully, so it might have already been addressed. talked to one of the ups coaches after the game last night he told me that if LC wins today: ups faces linfield and WW faces LC. if LC loses then UPS faces LC and WW has Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 22, 2009, 01:47:52 PM
So based on what I've read, both teams are in the tournament after today, no matter what happens.  But what's riding on this game is home court advantage for the first round of the NWC tournament.  If Whitworth wins, the Pirates get home court on Thursday against Linfield and L&C has to go to UPS.  If L&C wins, Whitworth and L&C meet again only four days later at L&C, while Linfield goes to UPS.  That's pretty big.

Wonder which team Linfield's pulling for?  I'm guessing Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2009, 02:10:24 PM
Well, it was much closer then I was thinking.  But the Logs showed why they are a championship class team.  Gutty win.  16-0 is very impressive.  Lets keep the wins coming! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
Loggers could move up as high as #2 in country as teams ranked 2-5 all dropped games this week
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2009, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
Loggers could move up as high as #2 in country as teams ranked 2-5 all dropped games this week
That would be sweet.  Congrats Loggers on great 16-0 conference sweep.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2009, 07:56:59 PM
Whitworth holds off LC and wins 83-78.   Shooting cools in second half and WW will be at home Thursday vs Linfield.

Congrats Pirates on 20 wins!!  That's 4 straight 20 win season for Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 22, 2009, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
Loggers could move up as high as #2 in country as teams ranked 2-5 all dropped games this week

So we're ranked #2 in the West region, just behind undefeated St. Thomas.  If we do move up to #2 in the 25, win our conference tourney, and St. Thomas loses a game in theirs, could we be #1 in the nation?  I know these numbers don't really matter and I'm just speculating for fun, but you gotta admit it would be cool.  However, I think Stevens Point will remain ahead of us at least.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 22, 2009, 08:47:19 PM
Pretty sweet win for the Logs, and I am pretty happy that somebody made a serious run (a very serious run) at them in a conference game.  Looking forward to Thursday!

If I had a vote, and were going to pick a Logger for conference player of the year, it would be Krauel.  He's been strong every game, all year, and to my mind was the glue of the team this year.  I think on most squads in the NWC, most d3 programs in the country he'd be a featured scorer.  Here he was just a great piece and in tough times (e.g. down 15 with 8 to go at Willamette with Foster in foul trouble, down at 1/2 to PLU) he was just a monster.  Obviously Foster was excellent most nights and Williams made it go.  But I think that through the year Krauel was  the most valuable guy on the floor for an undefeated conference champion. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 10:01:14 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 22, 2009, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
Loggers could move up as high as #2 in country as teams ranked 2-5 all dropped games this week

So we're ranked #2 in the West region, just behind undefeated St. Thomas.  If we do move up to #2 in the 25, win our conference tourney, and St. Thomas loses a game in theirs, could we be #1 in the nation?  I know these numbers don't really matter and I'm just speculating for fun, but you gotta admit it would be cool.  However, I think Stevens Point will remain ahead of us at least.

im not sure how many more polls are going to come out, might only be one plus the final poll
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2009, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 10:01:14 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 22, 2009, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
Loggers could move up as high as #2 in country as teams ranked 2-5 all dropped games this week

So we're ranked #2 in the West region, just behind undefeated St. Thomas.  If we do move up to #2 in the 25, win our conference tourney, and St. Thomas loses a game in theirs, could we be #1 in the nation?  I know these numbers don't really matter and I'm just speculating for fun, but you gotta admit it would be cool.  However, I think Stevens Point will remain ahead of us at least.

im not sure how many more polls are going to come out, might only be one plus the final poll

There's this coming week, next week (after conference tourneys), plus the final. poll.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 22, 2009, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 22, 2009, 08:47:19 PM
If I had a vote, and were going to pick a Logger for conference player of the year, it would be Krauel.  He's been strong every game, all year, and to my mind was the glue of the team this year. 

Love Krauel's game. Very difficult to stop him. Great all-around player.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 23, 2009, 02:16:23 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2009, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 10:01:14 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 22, 2009, 08:24:53 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 22, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
Loggers could move up as high as #2 in country as teams ranked 2-5 all dropped games this week

So we're ranked #2 in the West region, just behind undefeated St. Thomas.  If we do move up to #2 in the 25, win our conference tourney, and St. Thomas loses a game in theirs, could we be #1 in the nation?  I know these numbers don't really matter and I'm just speculating for fun, but you gotta admit it would be cool.  However, I think Stevens Point will remain ahead of us at least.

im not sure how many more polls are going to come out, might only be one plus the final poll

There's this coming week, next week (after conference tourneys), plus the final. poll.

Might have been referring to the regional which I mentioned along with the 25.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 23, 2009, 03:06:04 AM
I watched the live stats online of the WW-LC game today. Seemed like a game of runs. LC shot the lights out early to go up 21-7 then WW went on a 19-2 run of their own. The second half was back and forth for a while until WW made a late run to secure the win. LC goes into UPS on Thursday with nothing to lose. Nobody expects them to win against UPS. But man will it be tough to win that game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 23, 2009, 02:12:20 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 22, 2009, 08:47:19 PM
Pretty sweet win for the Logs, and I am pretty happy that somebody made a serious run (a very serious run) at them in a conference game. 

I tuned in to the UPS video broadcast and "watched" the last few minutes of the UPS-WU game. They had a most unusual camera shot of what appeared to be cheering UPS parents and the Willamette webcast announcers but not of the game action. Just a suggestion, but perhaps UPS could try pointing the camera in the other direction towards the court next time.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 23, 2009, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 23, 2009, 02:12:20 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 22, 2009, 08:47:19 PM
Pretty sweet win for the Logs, and I am pretty happy that somebody made a serious run (a very serious run) at them in a conference game. 

I tuned in to the UPS video broadcast and "watched" the last few minutes of the UPS-WU game. They had a most unusual camera shot of what appeared to be cheering UPS parents and the Willamette webcast announcers but not of the game action. Just a suggestion, but perhaps UPS could try pointing the camera in the other direction towards the court next time.

OxyBob

I think that the camera is acutally just one of those computer cameras that was on top of the broadcasters computer, it would be a little tough to follow the game by turning your computer back and forth
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 23, 2009, 10:00:25 PM
An email the Collegian just got from Willamette AD Mark Majeski.  I'd heard rumors, but hoped they weren't true:  :'(

All:
It is with great appreciation, admiration and respect as well as regret that
I write to you announcing that Gordie James is leaving his position at men's
basketball coach. He will remain on staff through the remainder of the
Spring semester. I purposely avoided the word "retiring."  Gordie
emphatically declares he has many things to do yet in his life that will
keep him busy, including spending more time with his wife Peg, their three
children and eight grandchildren.

Gordie's influence extends beyond the gym, the classroom and the Willamette
campus. His name is synonymous with "basketball" in Salem and throughout
Oregon. His summer Pro Classic Hoop camp has helped over 15,000 young boys
and girls develop fundamental basketball skills as well as a game plan for
successful lives.

In his 22 years at Willamette, Gordie accomplished many things and none more
important than positively influencing the lives of hundreds of young men who
played for him. On the court under his leadership, the Bearcats reached the
pinnacle of team sports when Gordie led the 1992-93 basketball team to the
NAIA Division II title, our institution's only varsity team national
championship. Gordie was named national coach of they year in 1993 and has
been named Northwest Conference Coach of the Year four times. He is
Willamette basketball's all-time leader with 357 wins, and led the Bearcats
to six Northwest Conference titles.

Prior to Willamette, Gordie won 340 games as a high school head coach in
California and Oregon.

Details will be forthcoming about celebrating Gordie's time at Willamette in
the weeks ahead. In the meantime, please feel free to share your thoughts
and appreciation with Gordie as you see him. A search for a new basketball
coach will commence soon.

Sincerely,
________________________________
Mark Majeski
Director of Athletics
Willamette University
900 State Street
Salem, OR 97301
http://www.willamette.edu/athletics
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2009, 11:13:22 PM
"And congrats to Wil for their effort against UPS!  And, sorry to Wil fans, but shame on Wil for putting themselves in a postion of needing to beat UPS to get into the playoffs.  They are just too good of a team to be out of the playoffs, talent and experience wise.  I don't know if it is the players or coaches fault for missing the playoffs, but they should have been there.  I had them finishing 3rd in my preseason thinking. "

TryMeTeam -- I also thought Willamette would have a better finish, especially with their conference win streak at the beginning of the season.   Not sure what happened, but it was a tough season with 2 games being lost by 1 point (Whitworth & UPS) and 3 others by 6 points or less.  The NWC was pretty tough this year top to bottom & it's probably going to be even better next year.

Tough break for the Bearcats that Gordie James is leaving.  He's a great coach and will really be missed  So, BearCatPress, tell me that's it's just an ugly hoax???

BTW--I watched the Whitworth v L&C game on Sunday.  That game could've gone either way.  L&C's shooting cooled off, but it could've easily been the Pirates travelling to Portland instead of Linfield getting a break.

Logs, you won't like to hear me say this, but I think any of the three teams left could give UPS troubles.   Whitworth & L&C looked especially good against each other.  Haven't seen Linfield for a while but have heard some of their broadcasts.  It definitely isn't over yet!!   Could mean 2 NWC teams in the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2009, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 23, 2009, 03:06:04 AM
I watched the live stats online of the WW-LC game today. Seemed like a game of runs. LC shot the lights out early to go up 21-7 then WW went on a 19-2 run of their own. The second half was back and forth for a while until WW made a late run to secure the win. LC goes into UPS on Thursday with nothing to lose. Nobody expects them to win against UPS. But man will it be tough to win that game.

I saw the L&C/Whitworth game live and I think that the Pios can win against UPS.  They just need to play the whole 40 minutes and not take dumb shots.   The problem is that if the win, they'll probably have to take another trip to Spokane and play Whitworth.    Not sure if Linfield can beat Whitworth at the fieldhouse.  Could happen, but it would surprise me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 24, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 23, 2009, 04:40:19 PM
I think that the camera is acutally just one of those computer cameras that was on top of the broadcasters computer, it would be a little tough to follow the game by turning your computer back and forth

I wish I'd known that. I'd have turned on Skype and then the fans in the stands could have watched me watching them watching the game.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2009, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 24, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
Quote from: logshock101 on February 23, 2009, 04:40:19 PM
I think that the camera is acutally just one of those computer cameras that was on top of the broadcasters computer, it would be a little tough to follow the game by turning your computer back and forth

I wish I'd known that. I'd have turned on Skype and then the fans in the stands could have watched me watching them watching the game.

OxyBob

Hey, I, for one, would've paid for that!! :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 24, 2009, 06:59:17 PM
I have to disagree with bbaddict....I do think that on a good night Whitworth can beat Puget Sound.  They're stronger under the basket and if they make some 3s it's a great game.  L&C?  I think the Loggers defend the 3 so well that the Pios are going to have trouble there, and that LC is outquicked just about everywhere.  Next year, maybe.  This year, I think not. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 24, 2009, 08:37:32 PM
By the way, official word is now out: Gordie James is stepping down as head coach at Willamette.  Hopefully, I'll be doing an in-depth article for next week's paper - the news came out too late to make it into this week's edition.  What a loss not only for the team, but for the entire Willamette community.  Gordie James Court at Cone Field House, anyone?

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/article/2009/02/head_coach_gordie_james_announces_his_retirement.xml
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 24, 2009, 10:30:26 PM
Gordie sure was a great coach, he always got the most out of his players, although i didnt know him, i certainly respect him. congrats on a great career Gordie!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 25, 2009, 03:00:12 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 24, 2009, 06:59:17 PM
I have to disagree with bbaddict....I do think that on a good night Whitworth can beat Puget Sound.  They're stronger under the basket and if they make some 3s it's a great game.  L&C?  I think the Loggers defend the 3 so well that the Pios are going to have trouble there, and that LC is outquicked just about everywhere.  Next year, maybe.  This year, I think not. 

Agreed, Whitworth is definitely capable of beating the Loggers.  That said, I don't think they will, if the matchup happens of course, as the Loggers are just too strong at home with their crowd.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 25, 2009, 12:00:42 PM
So, BearCatPress, what's the buzz about who will take over as coach of the Bearcats?  Will it be one of the current assistants?  Wing has been there as long as Gordie but it looked to me like he might be helping with the Women's program down the road.  So, do tell, do you know something?

And, how does everyone see this shaking out?

Whitworth v Linfield
UPS v L&C

What's your picks?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2009, 12:16:46 PM
This is the best time of the year!  Some big games tomorrow!   8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 25, 2009, 12:39:23 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 25, 2009, 12:00:42 PM
So, BearCatPress, what's the buzz about who will take over as coach of the Bearcats?  Will it be one of the current assistants?  Wing has been there as long as Gordie but it looked to me like he might be helping with the Women's program down the road.  So, do tell, do you know something?

And, how does everyone see this shaking out?

Whitworth v Linfield
UPS v L&C

What's your picks?
I think we all know how these will turn out:

Whitworth over Linfield by 12
UPS over L&C by 17

After that - NO CLUE !  My Utopia would be Whitworth over UPS in the finale...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 25, 2009, 01:03:51 PM
I think Coach James deserves a ton of praise for what he accomplished at Willamette and as one of the fixtures in the NWC, he will be greatly missed.  I hope his retirement is all he hopes for.

As for potential internal candidates within the Bearcats' program, I think Ione is the strongest candidate.  He's coached with James for several years, after playing in the program.  More important, he is youthful and energetic enough to recruit and compete against the accomplished young coaches in our league (Hayford, Brideland, Lunt - to name three).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 25, 2009, 01:06:45 PM
As for tomorrow's games -

Linfield still scares me as a Whitworth fan.  The Wildcats are playing really well and the last meeting in the Fieldhouse was dead-even for 38 minutes.  Other than a two-minute meltdown by Linfield in which Whitworth went on a 16-0 run.

I agree with other posters that L&C just doesn't match up well with UPS this year.  The Pioneers would have to shoot the ball like they did during the first ten minutes at Whitworth throughout the whole game to have a chance.

Predictions:
Whitworth 84, Linfield 78
UPS 80, L&C 65
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 25, 2009, 03:06:32 PM
OK,someone has to be champion of the underdog & cheering section for the potential dark horse.

I'm taking L&C over UPS in an ugly OT game.  It'll be full of action but the Pios will prevail.

Whitworth should win over Linfield, but again, it will be close.  For some reason, the Wildcats seem to know how to play against the Pirates.

So, the Championship game will be L&C travelling back to Spokane to face Whitworth.   But, UPS will still get into the tourney because they're ranked very high.

I agree with you, pineconefan, about Ione.   However, don't we all just wonder how happy Bridgeland is in Walla Walla?   Hmmm.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 25, 2009, 04:16:38 PM
I agree with others that if LC is going to beat UPS tomorrow they have to shoot like they did against WW. That was undoubtedly the best game they have played in conference. I don't know if they can do it two games in a row. But we will have to wait and see. I plan on making the trip up to Tacoma to see it live!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 25, 2009, 06:25:16 PM
I dunno, Pio.  I thought the game they played against Whitworth at home was a pretty good one -- they won by a bunch.  Also, both their games against WU were only 2 point games, weren't they?  Maybe I'm wrong on that one.

It just seems that at some point in the game, the Pios start hot dogging it and that's where it goes bad.  When they stick with the plays and play together -- awesome.  That's why I'm betting that they can beat UPS --- one night, one game.  Not to say UPS won't go on to fields of glory . . .
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 25, 2009, 06:41:52 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 25, 2009, 06:25:16 PM
I dunno, Pio.  I thought the game they played against Whitworth at home was a pretty good one -- they won by a bunch.  Also, both their games against WU were only 2 point games, weren't they?  Maybe I'm wrong on that one.

It just seems that at some point in the game, the Pios start hot dogging it and that's where it goes bad.  When they stick with the plays and play together -- awesome.  That's why I'm betting that they can beat UPS --- one night, one game.  Not to say UPS won't go on to fields of glory . . .

I am with you, I would like L&C to win (making them come back to Spokane - me being selfish of course), and I think they can...but will they?  Probably not.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2009, 07:51:52 PM
The UPS logshow train is rolling and it is going to take a monster game to stop it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 12:06:00 AM
Oh, we all know the UPS train is rolling, but I still think that L&C can stop it.  In UPS's past 4 games, the most they've won by is 12 and the least, 1 to WU.  The significant game here is the one with WU, who they stomped earlier in the season.   L&C has only lost to WU by 2, both very crazy, close games, one where the lights literally went out & they finished the game 2 days later.  They're playing pretty well, even without Kollasch, so I don't think they'll just roll over for this one.

Yeah, L&C is the underdog, but who doesn't love an underdog.  UPS is not unbeatable -- they lost 3 games in the preseason.   They're due for another one -- that's all I'm saying.  Could be wrong, but, hey, like a broken watch, I'm right at least twice a day. ;D 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 02:18:36 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 12:06:00 AM
Oh, we all know the UPS train is rolling, but I still think that L&C can stop it.  In UPS's past 4 games, the most they've won by is 12 and the least, 1 to WU.  The significant game here is the one with WU, who they stomped earlier in the season.   L&C has only lost to WU by 2, both very crazy, close games, one where the lights literally went out & they finished the game 2 days later.  They're playing pretty well, even without Kollasch, so I don't think they'll just roll over for this one.

Yeah, L&C is the underdog, but who doesn't love an underdog.  UPS is not unbeatable -- they lost 3 games in the preseason.   They're due for another one -- that's all I'm saying.  Could be wrong, but, hey, like a broken watch, I'm right at least twice a day. ;D 

Valid points there...but I don't think you can compare how UPS did against Willamette to how LC did against Willamette.  They are two completely different teams, apples and oranges.  Willamette did play UPS pretty tough, but that was their senior night and Coach James last game.  Maybe he gave them a little extra pre-game motivation to win.  UPS only lost 2 nonconference games, and 1 exhibition game to Eastern WA.  But if they were to play those same teams now, I think they would fair much better.  Remember UPS went undefeated against D3 this year...impressive no matter how you slice it. But I can definately understand you want to root for the underdog...so I will give that too you.  But it's not happening on Puget Sound's home court.  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 02:19:07 AM
Also, I haven't had a chance to congratulate Coach James on a very remarkable career.  He was a great coach, always getting more out of less, and having some very successful teams.  But above that, I always felt that he was very professional, and a likeable guy, who I would have nothing but respect for.  I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 26, 2009, 03:19:29 AM
Students will be decked out in their maroon, going nuts for the best UPS team ever, L&C shouldn't stand a chance.  But...like Kevin Garnett, anything is possible.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 26, 2009, 03:35:14 AM
Sorry I've been checked out for a couple of days . . . papers!

When I interview Gordie later this week, I'll ask him if there's anyone he'd like to see take over.  To be perfectly honest, my gut feeling is that Gordie's been thinking about this for awhile, and I can't think he'd leave without having a preferred successor.  If I had to lay money on it, I'd say Ioane.  He lives and works in Salem, he's Bearcat to the core, and he's worked with Gordie for 12 years (eight as an assistant and four as a player).  If he wants it, I don't see how you can't give it to him.

Of course, if Wally wants it, then it should be his.  But I'd be lying if I said I was entirely comfortable with it - it kind of has a Jimmy Anderson taking over for Ralph Miller feel, and we all know how that turned out . . .
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 26, 2009, 03:46:49 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 12:06:00 AM
Oh, we all know the UPS train is rolling, but I still think that L&C can stop it.  In UPS's past 4 games, the most they've won by is 12 and the least, 1 to WU.  The significant game here is the one with WU, who they stomped earlier in the season.   L&C has only lost to WU by 2, both very crazy, close games, one where the lights literally went out & they finished the game 2 days later.  They're playing pretty well, even without Kollasch, so I don't think they'll just roll over for this one.

Yeah, L&C is the underdog, but who doesn't love an underdog.  UPS is not unbeatable -- they lost 3 games in the preseason.   They're due for another one -- that's all I'm saying.  Could be wrong, but, hey, like a broken watch, I'm right at least twice a day. ;D 

I hope you are right bbadicct! The way I see it LC has always played well as an underdog so who knows maybe they won't feel as much pressure to win and thus play loose and very well and actually pull of the upset.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 03:53:10 AM
So, BearcatPress, did you get your papers done?

I'm kind of wondering if Kip did take over if Wally would still be comfortable being an assistant?  He seems to like the back-up role.   And, you've also got to wonder why he spent so much time on the Women's bench this winter.   Was that a message that the women coaches weren't getting it done?  I agree with the opinion on this board, that Ione is the logical one, but I wonder if they'll just bring in someone new.

So, what's your take on the NWC playoffs.   Will it end up being Whitworth @ UPS or are we looking for an upset.   I haven't ruled out L&C, yet, but I've seen them play quite a bit and know that they have the talent if they just use it.    NWC could use a little excitement after UPS being on top for the regular season.  I'm pretty sure they'll be in the NCAA tourney whether they win the NWC playoff or not -- at least, that's what I've been reading on D3hoops.

+K to LogShow for being agreeable!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 12:18:55 PM
Gameday!   8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 12:20:39 PM
There is talk on the Pool C board that Whitworth might have a decent shot getting an at-large bid.  But for that to happen, they definately need to win tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2009, 12:43:40 PM
Yes.  A win tonight is a requirement.  Fortunately, Pirates are healthy and at home.

I seriously doubt LC will make a game of it tonight.  I kinda want to see WW and UPS go to war 1 more time this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 02:34:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2009, 12:43:40 PM
Yes.  A win tonight is a requirement.  Fortunately, Pirates are healthy and at home.

I seriously doubt LC will make a game of it tonight.  I kinda want to see WW and UPS go to war 1 more time this year.

Its pretty much a requirement written into the NWC bylaws that states UPS and WW must play 3 times each year.

Hopefully both with make the tourney...but not in the same bracket, I wouldn't want to have to play 4 times...that is just pushing it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.

Hey we are trying!  We had a minor problem with our ceiling in the fieldhouse we needed to fix first...good thing it was cheap to fix  :-\
we are moving on the right track though...maybe by 2010, lol.  :D

The announcer should be pretty good.  It won't be students, so that usually means it will be a pretty good game call.  I think UPS has different people announcing home and away games.  I know the away guy is really good (with a slight bias of course  ;) )  I will be at the game, so you will have to let me know how the broadcast is.

I am a bit disappointed I won't be able to keep tabs on the WW/Linfield game, but hopefully they will be giving updates at the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 02:42:51 PM

Its pretty much a requirement written into the NWC bylaws that states UPS and WW must play 3 times each year.

Hopefully both with make the tourney...but not in the same bracket, I wouldn't want to have to play 4 times...that is just pushing it
[/quote]

It sure seems that way in the last few years.

3 is pushing it a bit much for me, but as it has been said before...it is hard to beat a team 3 times in one season - so GO BUCS !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 02:42:51 PM

Its pretty much a requirement written into the NWC bylaws that states UPS and WW must play 3 times each year.

Hopefully both with make the tourney...but not in the same bracket, I wouldn't want to have to play 4 times...that is just pushing it

It sure seems that way in the last few years.

3 is pushing it a bit much for me, but as it has been said before...it is hard to beat a team 3 times in one season - so GO BUCS !
[/quote]

I hate to admit it but WW did get us 3 times last year...so time for some payback this year  :)

the Logshow is rolling...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 26, 2009, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.

IMO the announcer does a pretty good job, not quite as good as the guy form WW who does a freakin awesome job, but the announcer for UPS is very excitable, but he can be a bit partial, so be forewarned
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 03:34:31 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 02:42:51 PM

Its pretty much a requirement written into the NWC bylaws that states UPS and WW must play 3 times each year.

Hopefully both with make the tourney...but not in the same bracket, I wouldn't want to have to play 4 times...that is just pushing it

It sure seems that way in the last few years.

3 is pushing it a bit much for me, but as it has been said before...it is hard to beat a team 3 times in one season - so GO BUCS !

I hate to admit it but WW did get us 3 times last year...so time for some payback this year  :)

the Logshow is rolling...
[/quote]

Your right about last year, forgot about that in my old age.  I hope your wrong about this week, but time will tell.  I think this WILL be a 4 meeting year for us...does kinda make it exciting though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 03:35:50 PM
IMO the announcer does a pretty good job, not quite as good as the guy form WW who does a freakin awesome job, but the announcer for UPS is very excitable, but he can be a bit partial, so be forewarned
[/quote]

IMO Castle is the best voice in the conference and maybe even on the left coast ! I am only a little biased though, he is a great guy off the radio as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 03:58:40 PM

IMO Castle is the best voice in the conference and maybe even on the left coast ! I am only a little biased though, he is a great guy off the radio as well.
[/quote]

No, you're right, Castle is the best!  He's pretty fair and he pronounces names right & such.  He's definitely not biased in his broadcast--he calls em like he sees em.  Fun to listen to!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 26, 2009, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.

A minor detail for me, but then again I live in Tacoma...

Predicting a blowout tonight: Loggers by 18, leads of 30 or close to it throughout the night.  I think WW beats Linfield comfortably as well,  maybe with a late surge, and then it's revenge for last year for the Logs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 06:03:25 PM
I would love for the game to be that far out of reach!  I think that LC will keep it some what close for the first part of the 1st half, and then UPS will stretch the lead to about 10 at half...then use one of their patented 2nd half runs to blow the game wide open.  I am hoping for a comfortable margin for most of the 2nd half.  I think UPS will end up winning by about 17.

As for the WW/Linfield game, I think this is going to be a real battle...Don't know who to pick, but have to give WW the slight nod being at home...they are very tough there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 26, 2009, 06:33:20 PM
I'm going to say both home teams by double digits, simply because they're easily the two best teams in the conference.  I really hope Whitworth gets a shot at an at-large bid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 26, 2009, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 26, 2009, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.

A minor detail for me, but then again I live in Tacoma...

Predicting a blowout tonight: Loggers by 18, leads of 30 or close to it throughout the night.  I think WW beats Linfield comfortably as well,  maybe with a late surge, and then it's revenge for last year for the Logs.

I really hope I don't make the two hour trip to see a 30 point blowout  :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 07:09:46 PM
Lets get it done Logs!  Bring the NWC tournament crown back to Tacoma too!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 26, 2009, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 26, 2009, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.

A minor detail for me, but then again I live in Tacoma...

Predicting a blowout tonight: Loggers by 18, leads of 30 or close to it throughout the night.  I think WW beats Linfield comfortably as well,  maybe with a late surge, and then it's revenge for last year for the Logs.

I really hope I don't make the two hour trip to see a 30 point blowout  :-\

And I hope I dont have to make the 5 hour trip to see a game in Memorial.  Go Pios tonight and keep the conference champ in Spokane !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 27, 2009, 12:32:04 AM
OH YEAH BABY !  What a game...PIRATES WIN in a nailbiter by 8.  Interesting refing, but that happens.  Nate the Great was a STUD tonight.  12 of 15 from the line, and 3 of 4 from behind the arc for 31 BIG points.  It was a close game all the way, Linfield was  a great opponent tonight, they have nothing to be ashamed of here.

Now, just waiting the the other side of the tourney to finish...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2009, 01:18:32 AM
Sorry to say you'll be making the trip to Tacoma.  UPS beat L&C 86 - 74.  Tried to listen to the game, but ended up just looking at LiveStats.  (Was also watching the Whitworth/Linfield game where it overlapped.)  The Pios made the Loggers work for the win.  Seemed like it might have been a pretty good game.

Didn't Montgomery have 14 boards as well?  There is just no other announcer like Bob Castle!  He's the greatest!   Linfield was a pretty tough team this year. 

So, UPS & Whitworth - go represent the NWC!  I'm pretty sure that whatever the outcome of Saturday's game, both teams will go to the tourney.  How sweet is that?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 27, 2009, 02:08:45 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 26, 2009, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 26, 2009, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.

A minor detail for me, but then again I live in Tacoma...

Predicting a blowout tonight: Loggers by 18, leads of 30 or close to it throughout the night.  I think WW beats Linfield comfortably as well,  maybe with a late surge, and then it's revenge for last year for the Logs.

I really hope I don't make the two hour trip to see a 30 point blowout  :-\

And I hope I dont have to make the 5 hour trip to see a game in Memorial.  Go Pios tonight and keep the conference champ in Spokane !

You better fill up your gas tank and check the conditions on the pass...you are heading to Tacoma!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 27, 2009, 02:11:09 AM
It wasn't easy, but still got the win...19th straight.  Looking forward to playing WW on saturday.  It is going to be some great pay back for last year.   :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 27, 2009, 02:23:20 AM
I watched UPS/LC.  The Pios put up about as good a fight as they could, got some pretty sweet 3 point shooting from 5 and 24, and kept within shouting distance. I thought that UPS controlled the game throughout, with a little sputtering in the first minutes of the second half. Foster was great in the first half in particular, and Williams (aside from a couple of bad turnovers near the start of the second half) was in command in the second half. 

LC went to a 1-4 offense in the second half, leaving the ball at the point, running the shot clock down to under 15, then (typically) having whoever was at the point step back and shoot the 3.  I hadn't seen anybody attack UPS that way, and for a little while it looked effective.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2009, 02:50:23 AM
Linfield came to play tonight.  Olson was amazing.

But Montgomery was all over the court for the Pirates - offense, defense, rebounding.  Hope he can bring the same game to UPS on Saturday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 27, 2009, 03:28:06 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 27, 2009, 02:23:20 AM
I watched UPS/LC.  The Pios put up about as good a fight as they could, got some pretty sweet 3 point shooting from 5 and 24, and kept within shouting distance. I thought that UPS controlled the game throughout, with a little sputtering in the first minutes of the second half. Foster was great in the first half in particular, and Williams (aside from a couple of bad turnovers near the start of the second half) was in command in the second half. 

LC went to a 1-4 offense in the second half, leaving the ball at the point, running the shot clock down to under 15, then (typically) having whoever was at the point step back and shoot the 3.  I hadn't seen anybody attack UPS that way, and for a little while it looked effective.  

I agree..the offense was very odd. I'm not sure why he decided to let the shot clock run down so far before attacking. Perhaps he was trying to give players a breather since he had a short rotation? Or slow the game down and try to stop UPS from running? It was a weird game. LC didn't play particularly bad and UPS didn't play particularly well. In the end, the UPS offense was just too much for LC's poor defense. Antwan Williams sure doesn't hurt either. He is legit. Super quick and has great court awareness. The UPS press gave LC a little trouble, but even when they broke it they pulled the ball back and held the ball for a while. The Fieldhouse is a cool venue. The upper tier gives you a cool perspective on the game. The Pios have a tough end to the season without Josh Kollasch. They fought hard and have a lot of young talent coming back next year. Until then...good luck to UPS and Whitworth! Represent for the NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 27, 2009, 10:20:38 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 27, 2009, 01:18:32 AM
Sorry to say you'll be making the trip to Tacoma.  UPS beat L&C 86 - 74.  Tried to listen to the game, but ended up just looking at LiveStats.  (Was also watching the Whitworth/Linfield game where it overlapped.)  The Pios made the Loggers work for the win.  Seemed like it might have been a pretty good game.

Didn't Montgomery have 14 boards as well?  There is just no other announcer like Bob Castle!  He's the greatest!   Linfield was a pretty tough team this year. 

So, UPS & Whitworth - go represent the NWC!  I'm pretty sure that whatever the outcome of Saturday's game, both teams will go to the tourney.  How sweet is that?

Missed the boards part, but he also had 6 blocks !  He was a monster !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 27, 2009, 10:22:50 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 27, 2009, 02:08:45 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 26, 2009, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 26, 2009, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on February 26, 2009, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 26, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
So, there's no streaming video for the UPS/L&C game tonight?   What's with that?  Logs, your team needs to upgrade their technology to the level of their team's success.  That's just wrong! :D

Is the announcer any good?

Because of the women's game at UPS, we can watch 1/2 of the Whitworth/Linfield game before switching over to UPS/L&C.   Then we can alternate back & forth.

A minor detail for me, but then again I live in Tacoma...

Predicting a blowout tonight: Loggers by 18, leads of 30 or close to it throughout the night.  I think WW beats Linfield comfortably as well,  maybe with a late surge, and then it's revenge for last year for the Logs.

I really hope I don't make the two hour trip to see a 30 point blowout  :-\

And I hope I dont have to make the 5 hour trip to see a game in Memorial.  Go Pios tonight and keep the conference champ in Spokane !

You better fill up your gas tank and check the conditions on the pass...you are heading to Tacoma!
Unfortunately NOT going to make Saturday's tourney final - will be listening to the BEST radio guy out there instead !  Will go wherever the committee puts the Pirates for the first weekend of the dance though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 27, 2009, 02:37:27 PM
Was at the UPS game (of course) and to be honest, and not to diss L&C, but it never seemed to me that the Loggers were in trouble.  It is just too hard to keep up 3-point shooting throughout a game, especially when you're draining them from 30 feet out and a man in your face.  It's nice when it's happening, but it just won't work all game.  L&C's offense was a little odd, I didn't understand the running down of the shot clock while down by 8/10 points.  Great game by the Loggers, never seemed worried, and Austin Boyce threw down one of the best dunks I've ever seen in in 15 years of attending.  Looking forward to the WW rematch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on February 27, 2009, 03:39:31 PM
LC needed to slow the game down to keep their legs and needed to shoot lights out from long range to have a chance, and therefore the "hold the ball and heave the 3" strategy had something to recommend it.  It also looked to me like they were getting decent rebounding positioning out of that set, doing better than an undersized team might expect to against a pretty strong UPS front line.  LC had some good shooters on the floor.  I appreciated the way that the Pios didn't spend the last minute of a lost game extending things with useless fouls.  Good team, played hard, lost, and they'll take their chances next year....

Sat. should be great....

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 28, 2009, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on February 27, 2009, 03:39:31 PM
LC needed to slow the game down to keep their legs and needed to shoot lights out from long range to have a chance, and therefore the "hold the ball and heave the 3" strategy had something to recommend it.  It also looked to me like they were getting decent rebounding positioning out of that set, doing better than an undersized team might expect to against a pretty strong UPS front line.  LC had some good shooters on the floor.  I appreciated the way that the Pios didn't spend the last minute of a lost game extending things with useless fouls.  Good team, played hard, lost, and they'll take their chances next year....

Sat. should be great....

Just checked the stats.  It looks like one of the LC starters must have been hurt in the first half, plays 16 minutes 1st half and none the 2nd.  Another only played 3 minutes total.  Two others did not play.  That means 6 players "played" the second half.  Against UPS, that is a prescription for a huge defeat.  It looked like the LC's only chance was to slow it down and hope for a miracle.  But God was at the WW game making sure they beat an inspired Lin team  :)

With LC's injuries, the two best teams are playing for the championship.  I would have like to see LC play WW and UPS with Kollasch.  There would have been an OR team in the championship today, IMO!

I am hoping for a competitive game tonight, but I am afraid UPS will beat WW by more than they beat LC.  Both teams should make the the big tourny, anyway.  Here' to both representing the NWC well!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 12:55:48 PM
Based on the D3 hoops front page, it sounds like the Pool C bids are getting pretty dicey...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 12:59:48 PM
What a big game tonight, the Memorial Fieldhouse is going to be packed and rocking!  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 01:04:21 PM
From Pabegg on the Pool C board:

UPS and St. Thomas will have Pool C bids if they need them with a loss today.
The WIAC loser and UW-Whitewater have Pool C bids.
Buena Vista will need to sweat out upsets, but they're in good shape.
Claremont has no Pool C chance
Whitworth would replace Buena Vista in national consideration once BV gets in. They have a chance, however slim, of getting a Pool C bid but it really depends on a lack of upsets around the country. The last two days haven't been kind to them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 28, 2009, 01:36:37 PM
Thankfully I don't think the Whitworth coaches and players are too concerned with where they stand in the Pool C consideration.  They should be focused entirely on tonight's game.  It will be tough enough as it is.

I also will be listening to Bob Castle tonight, but will be interested to know what kind of turnout Whitworth fans make at the game.  Whitworth generally has good road crowds.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 28, 2009, 01:41:13 PM
For Whitworth to have a chance tonight, the Pirates cannot let UPS take them out of their game in the first half like has happened in the first two meetings.  In both games the Loggers built big first half leads by holding Whitworth below 40% from the field and even worse from three point range in the half. 

All credit goes to UPS for that.  It is up to Whitworth to adjust to what UPS has done, which they did okay in the second half of each game, but at that point the lead was too much to overcome.

My only prediction is this - if Whitworth can shoot above 45% in each half (which will be really tough), the Pirates will win.  If not, UPS will win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 02:11:06 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 28, 2009, 01:41:13 PM
For Whitworth to have a chance tonight, the Pirates cannot let UPS take them out of their game in the first half like has happened in the first two meetings.  In both games the Loggers built big first half leads by holding Whitworth below 40% from the field and even worse from three point range in the half. 

All credit goes to UPS for that.  It is up to Whitworth to adjust to what UPS has done, which they did okay in the second half of each game, but at that point the lead was too much to overcome.

My only prediction is this - if Whitworth can shoot above 45% in each half (which will be really tough), the Pirates will win.  If not, UPS will win.

You are right Pinecone.  UPS needs to step up the defense tonight to beat WW.  They have been able to do that this year...probably partly because WW just isn't quite as versitile without Symes and Willamsen. 

In the last meeting, UPS did a great job of taking WW out of its game...especially in the 1st half, they really limited Riley.  However, UPS did struggle in the battle of the boards against WW's big boys down low.  I think that is a real key to the game tonight.  UPS has to keep WW off the glass and limit their second chances.  If they can do that, and limit Riley...I will be pretty confident in the Logger's chances.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 28, 2009, 01:36:37 PM
Thankfully I don't think the Whitworth coaches and players are too concerned with where they stand in the Pool C consideration.  They should be focused entirely on tonight's game.  It will be tough enough as it is.

I also will be listening to Bob Castle tonight, but will be interested to know what kind of turnout Whitworth fans make at the game.  Whitworth generally has good road crowds.


Too bad you can't make the trip...it is going to be a GREAT atmospshere tonight.  WW and UPS always seem to be the ones battling it out to get into the NCAA.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on February 28, 2009, 04:41:46 PM
Can't wait for the game tonight, it's going to be awesome.  I'm hoping for a game lacking a large number fouls, would really just like to see a solid, disciplined game from both teams with the refs not being a factor.  As long as the Loggers play solid defense, I don't see them dropping this game at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 06:47:28 PM
Almost gametime!   8)  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 07:18:49 PM
There is one last step for the Logs before the NCAA.  They have already brought back the NWC regular season champs...now it is time take back the NWC tourney champs and get that AQ.

The show is on tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on March 01, 2009, 12:55:34 AM
Huge stunner.  Good news for the Northwest Conference as a whole though, now with two bids into the tournament
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 01, 2009, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2009, 07:18:49 PM
There is one last step for the Logs before the NCAA.  They have already brought back the NWC regular season champs...now it is time take back the NWC tourney champs and get that AQ.

The show is on tonight
Sorry it didnt go your way tonight, but I am sure we will see each other again in the BIG TOURNEY !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Buc Up on March 01, 2009, 02:37:38 AM
Congratulations to Coach Hayford and the Whitworth Pirates!  In the three meeting this year between the two powers, Whitworth was the team that was more affected by foul trouble which is a little weird, considering that part of UPS game plan is to harass the person with the ball and have a lot of hands on the dribbler at all times.  In the past, UPS would get called for a lot of fouls at the beginning of the game and then the refs would eventually get tired of blowing their whistle and back off.  At that point UPS could continue to be aggressive and force an unreasonable amount of turnovers.  This year it seems that they have either backed off that style a bit, or they are simply not getting called for those same fouls.  Whitworth plays more of a move, your feet and try and beat your man to the position approach and yet was plagued with foul trouble in every meeting and it a few of the half's, was putting UPS at the line with the over 7 limit well ahead of the time Whitworth got into the bonus.  Just an observation.

Great individual performances by Montgomery, Nakamura and Riley.  Foster and Kraul were solid as usual and Williams had a little late-game magic as always.  It seems that some of UPS' role players were taken out of their games a little bit while Whitworth got some good production from Sellereit and Gregg.  Jurich didn't have a bad statistical game with 9 point and 8 boards, but foul trouble really limited his production.  It is great to know that the NWC will have two teams in the tournament and it will be interesting to see where the two teams play and if one of the two schools will host....

I look for both teams to win at least a couple of games.  UPS has some great talent and a difficult style for teams to prepare for with short notice.  Coach Hayford and his staff seem to always be able to put their team in a great position with a great game plan.  I surely wouldn't want to play either team in the first or second round.

Congratulations to both teams and good luck in the tourney.

Anyone heard about the all-league stuff?
;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2009, 02:41:48 AM
WHAT A GREAT GAME TO WATCH TONIGHT.  GREAT JOB PIRATES!  UPS....POOL C!!  GOTTA LOVE THE SOUND OF THAT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 01, 2009, 09:17:54 AM
Congrats to the privateers. Indeed, UPS in the play-offs will bring the posters back here. Seemed stunned right now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 01, 2009, 12:06:35 PM
That was a pretty amazing game.   Great job, Pirates!  Hope Gebbers is OK after taking that wild, whapping elbow!  No call, though! 

And Logs, you have this huge student crowd cheering.  But, what a waste.  The only cheers they know are:  B.S., We Can't Hear You, Our House, and UPS, UPS.  Teach 'em some new ones!  Oh, and my favorite, SAT's, SAT's.  Are they seriously ranting that UPS is more academic than Whitworth?  Since when?  And, why on earth does it matter at basketball?

Anyway, that has to be one of the most exciting games I've watched all year.  That's a great venue because you can sit above and see most of the action.  The side where you're sitting is kind of hidden sometimes, but, for the most part, great view!

Go Pirates & Loggers -- make the NWC proud!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on March 01, 2009, 01:07:05 PM
Great game, two proud teams hitting one another hard.  Montgomery played a long time with four fouls --it was key that the Loggers couldn't send him to the bench to sit with his large friend.  I thought Krauel had drawn #5 a couple of times, but the whistle we were looking for didn't come.  Riley hitting the 3 with about 30 ticks in regulation, just after Krauel had capped a crazed comeback with a 3 for the lead, was clutch for him.  When the Logs ratcheted up the pressure with a few minutes to go, down big, I think I saw the Pirates fall apart, then the Logs rushed some 3s and that was that....great small college game.

Coach Lunt is in the Tacoma paper this morning lamenting the likelihood that there will almost surely be a fourth UPS-WW game this year.  In the last few years of women's tournaments, UPS and Geo. Fox slugged it out all year, played tough in the NWC tournament, and then had to face one another in the second round of the NCAA.  Both of those teams were great women's teams, but one was inevitably knocked out by the other before they could get far in the tournament.

Lunt was quoted in the paper a couple of days ago as saying, "If we can just get out of the conference where they don't know us so well" things could be pretty special.  He has a point.  The Loggers are a highly talented D3 team, a good match for anybody straight up, but the defensive schemes that make them special rest a little on shock and awe, surprise....and by now, WW--also a talented D3 team-- isn't going to be surprised. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2009, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 17, 2009, 07:02:04 PM
Hey people, been gone...not surprised but disappointed with last weeks Linfield loss.  I think it firmly made UPS the team to beat and they came to Spokane last night and played well.  No slugfest just two talented teams with the better team winning....better team right now.  All of us who watch should know that UPS has started the last 2 seasons with a 5-0 start and first place.  Then to slide down in the next 3 weeks and be overtaken by WW and in 06-07 WW and LC.  Now that being said..UPS has beaten WW and LC early.  Congrats.

Not accepting defeat or conceding the conference by any means, WW like others is going to fight to make the 4 team playoff (new in 09) and get into the NCAA's.  That has to be the plan..not losing a third time to any team. WW is doing a pretty good job of staying at a high level despite the loss of POTY and senior depth.  UPS is obviously loaded and has plenty of seniors, could be their year. In fact, maybe such a good year that they could get to NWC final, lose and get an at large without a doubt.  Could happen very easily.
If I had a nickle for each of these, I might have like a quarter over the past 10 years.

Great game.  WW didn't get any crazy breaks, calls, or prayers answered, in fact, UPS had more go for them and yet WW's solid performance earned a convincing win.  That comeback was crazy awesome by UPS and WW almost lost the game in a 3 minute period.  WW stopped the madness and won it convincingly in OT.  I think when Kraul went down in OT and laid on the floor, UPS was beat.  He is so good and so tough, to see him lay there still but not motionless for a minute was when WW knew they had the upper hand and UPS knew they didn't have another run in them.  Great finish for Pirates and execution by Hayford and his coaches to get to that game and win it.  The last 6 weeks focus has been about getting to that game and winning it.  No 3 sweep in 09, Log fans have to be stunned.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 01, 2009, 02:52:05 PM
Wow, miracles can happen - the Pirates actually made me look kind of smart:

QuoteMy only prediction is this - if Whitworth can shoot above 45% in each half (which will be really tough), the Pirates will win.

46% first, 46% second, 67% OT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 01, 2009, 02:54:52 PM
Buc Up - if you are still reading this stuff - don't just register/post/leave.  Stick around and be part of the on-going conversation.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on March 01, 2009, 04:19:17 PM
Two things....looking at the d3 projected brackets, UPS and WW slotted 4-5 in the west and headed for a first round rematch.  It's hard for me to believe that the committee would let that happen.  In any case, UPS/WW round 4 would be a slugfest!   

As to the academic merits of the two institutions, no comment from here.  I know that Puget Sound is a fine school, and know nothing about WW.  But consider these fan chants from strong academic schools:

"Harass them!  Harass them!  Make them relinquish the ball!"
"My my!  Hey hey!  You'll be working for us someday!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 01, 2009, 04:32:01 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on March 01, 2009, 04:19:17 PM
Two things....looking at the d3 projected brackets, UPS and WW slotted 4-5 in the west and headed for a first round rematch.  It's hard for me to believe that the committee would let that happen. 

You've obviously never heard of what I like to refer to as the "SCIAC Exception." The NCAA D-III championship handbook provides:

QuoteTeams from the same conference do not have to play one another in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained.

The NCAA selection committee's overriding concern is cost, otherwise known as "geographic proximity." Making UPS and Whitworth play each other in the first round is a money saver. Therefore, expect that to happen.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 01, 2009, 04:58:38 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 01, 2009, 02:52:05 PM
Wow, miracles can happen - the Pirates actually made me look kind of smart:

QuoteMy only prediction is this - if Whitworth can shoot above 45% in each half (which will be really tough), the Pirates will win.

46% first, 46% second, 67% OT.

Hey, I was thinking that Pineconefan, last night looking at the box score!  Couldn't remember who said it or where, but thought, "Wow, right on!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 01, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
Don't have much to say right now except...that stings
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 01, 2009, 05:35:07 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 01, 2009, 12:06:35 PM
That was a pretty amazing game.   Great job, Pirates!  Hope Gebbers is OK after taking that wild, whapping elbow!  No call, though! 

thats funny that antwans elbow in on his head, must be right beneath the bandage that was used to stop the bleeding from his eyebrow...you know the funny thing about my back is that its located on my...not gonna finish that one, u all know how it goes
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 01, 2009, 05:56:20 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2009, 01:08:35 PM
Great game.  WW didn't get any crazy breaks, calls, or prayers answered, in fact, UPS had more go for them and yet WW's solid performance earned a convincing win.

What a joke. you musta been watching the same game as the officials, right from "jacks" back pocket...is that the best the NWC has to offer in terms of officiating? that was stupidiculous, idillogical and preposterageous, some might even say a travashamockery
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 01, 2009, 06:04:34 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 01, 2009, 04:32:01 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on March 01, 2009, 04:19:17 PM
Two things....looking at the d3 projected brackets, UPS and WW slotted 4-5 in the west and headed for a first round rematch.  It's hard for me to believe that the committee would let that happen. 

You've obviously never heard of what I like to refer to as the "SCIAC Exception." The NCAA D-III championship handbook provides:

QuoteTeams from the same conference do not have to play one another in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained.

The NCAA selection committee's overriding concern is cost, otherwise known as "geographic proximity." Making UPS and Whitworth play each other in the first round is a money saver. Therefore, expect that to happen.

OxyBob

thats exactly right OB. uncle scrooge (the ncaa) is already cutting their costs at all division levels be hiring officials who might be suitable to ref, at best, 1st grade girls basketball. example: yesterday in the duke vs VT game i honestly think the duke player moved his pivot foot 12-18 inches from its original position w/o being called for a travel. hellen keller coulda made that call
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 01, 2009, 06:09:30 PM
my only hope is that they send CMS up to spokane and have the winner take on the loggers. but who knows
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on March 01, 2009, 06:50:22 PM
Oxybob, thanks for the clarification of the rule.  It wouldn't be so tough, though  (say, in a nice place like Tacoma!), have WW and PS headed for a rematch on the second night. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on March 01, 2009, 07:11:36 PM
Having WW and UPS matchup in the 1st round would be a huge slap in the face to the NWC, especially UPS.  I guess going perfect in the regular season against Division III opponents doesn't count for anything
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 01, 2009, 10:03:46 PM
Oh, Whitworth & UPS probably won't face each other until the 2nd round.  They'll give UPS a bye & have Whitworth & probably someone from the SCIAC play, and then the winner from that game will play UPS (could be Whitworth).

As far as the reffing -- they were just baaad!  I could see non-calls, bad calls, and such both ways.  But there were some terrible fouls against Whitworth that just went uncalled and that offensive foul called on David Riley was just WRONG -- just wrong!

But, overheard in the Whitworth huddle, Coach Hayford, "I know the calls aren't going your way, but you just have to suck it up and take care of business!"  Refs don't determine games, determined players do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Buc Up on March 01, 2009, 11:20:05 PM
It is difficult to listen to UPS fans complain about the officiating of any game.  I understand that there are poor calls that affect both teams throughout the course of the game.  There are even questionable calls that may go against UPS and seem very significant at that point of the game.  One needs to keep in mind when complaining that UPS gets screwed by the refs, is that they could call a hand check at any point on any UPS player and most of the time they don't.  They have their hands all over the ball handler.  When another player puts his hands on the dribbler the way UPS does, they are whistled for a foul.  Now I do give UPS credit for sticking with that defensive philosophy and using it too their advantage.  That is good coaching.  But to hear fans complain that refs were bad, is tough to listen too when being a fan of any other NWC team.

One thing that I question about UPS is do they ever change their game plan?  Or do they simply teach their system and stick to it no matter what?  There system obviously works very well and I give them a lot of credit for that.  However, are they capable of making adjustments?  Does Lunt mix things up or does he simply just manipulate the game through personnel changes.  Does he make adjustments the way other good coaches at this level do?  Please don't take these questions the wrong way.  I praise Lunt and his staff for getting a lot out of their players.  It seems that most of their work would be done in the preseason and in recruiting the right type of players to fit the system.  Once the season starts, do they just need to stay in good conditioning shape, work on ball handling and shooting.  Obviously they spend a lot of time on their press and guarding the ball, but do they switch things up?  Do they add new sets?  Do they look to see what the other teams do well and try and take that away?  Do they look at what the other team does poorly and try to exploit it?  I raise these questions because I wonder how far UPS can go and are they capable of playing their opponent or just playing their system (which they do very well).

With all this said, watching UPS play is a lot of fun and their style is very entertaining.  I like all the rah rah stuff and their ability to intimidate the other team.  I wish them luck in the tourney; of course except when/if they play Whitworth.

Any word on all league, poy/coy stuff yet?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2009, 12:10:47 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on March 01, 2009, 07:11:36 PM
Having WW and UPS matchup in the 1st round would be a huge slap in the face to the NWC, especially UPS.  I guess going perfect in the regular season against Division III opponents doesn't count for anything

The conference tournament is part of the regular season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 03:06:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2009, 12:10:47 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on March 01, 2009, 07:11:36 PM
Having WW and UPS matchup in the 1st round would be a huge slap in the face to the NWC, especially UPS.  I guess going perfect in the regular season against Division III opponents doesn't count for anything

The conference tournament is part of the regular season.

Good Point, PC.  A few people in the NWC forget that because for a few short years, they discontinued the Conference Tournament & just had the top team be the AQ.  Much more interesting under the current system.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on March 02, 2009, 03:50:17 AM
That is a good point.  Still it doesn't hurt to dream of a day when two NWC entrants could end up in opposite ends of the bracket
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 02, 2009, 11:35:24 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 01, 2009, 10:03:46 PM
Oh, Whitworth & UPS probably won't face each other until the 2nd round.  They'll give UPS a bye & have Whitworth & probably someone from the SCIAC play, and then the winner from that game will play UPS (could be Whitworth).

You got it right! Claremont @ Whitworth, winner plays @ UPS. That's how it should be.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
Like a broken watch, I'm right at least twice a day!   ;D   OxyBob, are you surprised that CMS travels to Whitworth and not the other way around?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:00:56 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 15, 2009, 11:51:02 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on February 15, 2009, 04:45:33 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 14, 2009, 06:23:49 PM
Congrats to the Loggers.  So, if they DO lose in the NWC playoffs, do you suppose we'd get two teams in the dance?

I think UPS has to get in at this point even if they lose in the NWC playoffs. But even if that happens and someone else wins the NWC title wouldn't it be likely that the first round NCAA game would be between the NWC champ and UPS anyway?

Just to be safe, I think UPS needs to win both games next weekend to be a sure shot pool C bid.  You are right they probably have it sealed up already.  Sorry to nitpick Pio, but UPS is the NWC champ...with the tournament champ still TBD.  If the Logs drop a game in the NWC tourney, allowing two NWC teams to get in the dance (in a long time) this is how I think it will play out.  Its a fact that the NWC teams wouldn't be able to avoid each other.  So assuming that the SCIAC only gets one team in, I think that the NCAA will make it a 3 team pod of the 2 NWC teams and the SCIAC team.  UPS would get the bye and then play the winner of the Thursday game on Saturday.  The only question is would the other NWC team get to host the first game, or should it just be played at UPS since the Saturday game will be played there. 

I do hope that if there is two NWC teams they get stuck in different pods, but I just don't seeing that happening.  The other thing I am almost willing to bet in is that UPS will be seeing UW-Stevens Point in the NCAA.  It would only fit for the selection commitee to match them up again in the sweet 16.  But I sure hope I am wrong.

Man it feels good being right...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:02:43 PM
oh i didn't even look into the sectionals...UPS will be heading to UW-Stevens Points.  That's 2 for 2.   8)  ;D

I am looking for some positives here after a disappointing weekend... :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:06:45 PM
Should have added this to my last post, but oh well...too many thoughts going through my head.

UPS/WW's quarter of the bracket is just brutal...

It includes:  #1 St. Thomas, #2 Wash U, #3 UPS, #4 Wheaton, #5 UW-Plattleville, #6 UW-Stevens Point, #7 UW-WW

Wow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:06:45 PM
Should have added this to my last post, but oh well...too many thoughts going through my head.

UPS/WW's quarter of the bracket is just brutal...

It includes:  #1 St. Thomas, #2 Wash U, #3 UPS, #4 Wheaton, #5 UW-Plattleville, #6 UW-Stevens Point, #7 UW-WW

Wow.

It usually is brutal.   If you live on the left coast, you gotta be tough!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 02, 2009, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
OxyBob, are you surprised that CMS travels to Whitworth and not the other way around?

Claremont beat Whitworth head-to-head, but it's probably cheaper to fly CMS to play @ Whitworth and have the Stags stay over on Friday if they beat the Pirates. Saves a flight, and, as you know, cost-cutting trumps all other considerations in setting the brackets.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PM
I feel like Whitworth could go to the East bracket and win the whole thing.  Loving that UPS got the equivalent of a one seed.  too bad WW and UPS will have to play eachother so early. 

I wonder how the sweet 16 will go if one of the two win, probably fly Whitworth to the midwest, any chance the UPS would get to stay home you think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 02, 2009, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
OxyBob, are you surprised that CMS travels to Whitworth and not the other way around?

Claremont beat Whitworth head-to-head, but it's probably cheaper to fly CMS to play @ Whitworth and have the Stags stay over on Friday if they beat the Pirates. Saves a flight, and, as you know, cost-cutting trumps all other considerations in setting the brackets.

OxyBob
Tough break for Claremont and the SCIAC but very predictable choice by committee.

Should be a good game in Spokane and if the Pirates emerge with the W back to Tacoma for another WAR.  

I would have to agree that the quarter of the bracket NWC is in is VERY loaded...I am thinking that the eventual Champion will most likely come from there.  Might make a good poll.

Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PM
I feel like Whitworth could go to the East bracket and win the whole thing.  Loving that UPS got the equivalent of a one seed.  too bad WW and UPS will have to play eachother so early. 

I wonder how the sweet 16 will go if one of the two win, probably fly Whitworth to the midwest, any chance the UPS would get to stay home you think?
I bet WW would have paid their own airfare and hotel to go East.  But, such is life in the NW and far west and our mini pods.  Never gonna change as long as 2 NWC's get in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 02, 2009, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
OxyBob, are you surprised that CMS travels to Whitworth and not the other way around?

Claremont beat Whitworth head-to-head, but it's probably cheaper to fly CMS to play @ Whitworth and have the Stags stay over on Friday if they beat the Pirates. Saves a flight, and, as you know, cost-cutting trumps all other considerations in setting the brackets.

OxyBob
Tough break for Claremont and the SCIAC but very predictable choice by committee.

Should be a good game in Spokane and if the Pirates emerge with the W back to Tacoma for another WAR.  

I would have to agree that the quarter of the bracket NWC is in is VERY loaded...I am thinking that the eventual Champion will most likely come from there.  Might make a good poll.

Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PM
I feel like Whitworth could go to the East bracket and win the whole thing.  Loving that UPS got the equivalent of a one seed.  too bad WW and UPS will have to play eachother so early. 

I wonder how the sweet 16 will go if one of the two win, probably fly Whitworth to the midwest, any chance the UPS would get to stay home you think?
I bet WW would have paid their own airfare and hotel to go East.  But, such is life in the NW and far west and our mini pods.  Never gonna change as long as 2 NWC's get in.

That is the truth NWHoops,

I would bet UPS would be in the same boat (even though we are hosting)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 01:28:37 PM
I am just glad the NCAA didn't institute their SCIAC exception for the NWC  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 02, 2009, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
OxyBob, are you surprised that CMS travels to Whitworth and not the other way around?

Claremont beat Whitworth head-to-head, but it's probably cheaper to fly CMS to play @ Whitworth and have the Stags stay over on Friday if they beat the Pirates. Saves a flight, and, as you know, cost-cutting trumps all other considerations in setting the brackets.

OxyBob

Very true about the head to head victory by CMS, however, WW had a much higher strength of schedule (Massey 26th toughest WW vs 128th CMS) and a victory over UPS, a higher rated regional opponent.  I think WW hosting is more than just money saving but well deserved.  And yes that's the opinion of a Pirate fan, take it for what its worth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 02, 2009, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 02, 2009, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 11:43:17 AM
OxyBob, are you surprised that CMS travels to Whitworth and not the other way around?
Claremont beat Whitworth head-to-head, but it's probably cheaper to fly CMS to play @ Whitworth and have the Stags stay over on Friday if they beat the Pirates. Saves a flight, and, as you know, cost-cutting trumps all other considerations in setting the brackets.
Very true about the head to head victory by CMS, however, WW had a much higher strength of schedule (Massey 26th toughest WW vs 128th CMS) and a victory over UPS, a higher rated regional opponent. 

Massey Ratings are irrelevant.

Under the NCAA primary selection criteria, Claremont (19-4) had a better regional record than Whitworth (19-5). Whitworth's OWP and OOWP (.529, .518) were better than CMS's (.478, .482). Claremont beat Whitworth head-to-head. Whitworth was 5-0 against in-region common opponents; Claremont was 4-1. CMS was 1-0 against in-region regionally ranked teams; Whitworth was 1-3.

Not much to choose from between the two teams, but factor in the all-important travel costs and Whitworth gets the nod.

Good luck to the Pirates.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 02:53:48 PM
I was at the game when CMS played Whitworth and it was a great game!
The Stags came out hot and kept the intensity up all game and ended up victorious.
I think it will be another close game, but Whitworth at home gives them an edge.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 03:13:28 PM
Oh, the home thing definitely give Whitworth an advantage.  First, of all, it's a fieldhouse, which a lot of teams aren't used to.   The students are usually very loud & painted, which can be distracting.  And that big white banner makes it look kind of like a Pirate Ship.   Who wouldn't be scared?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 03:31:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 01:28:37 PM
I am just glad the NCAA didn't institute their SCIAC exception for the NWC  ;D

And Logs, be really glad that UPS isn't in the Elmhurst or St. Thomas brackets -- at least the travel thing works in your team's favor this year!  Sucks for the NWC, but really works better for UPS or Whitworth, whichever team makes it out of the 2nd round.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 03:31:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 01:28:37 PM
I am just glad the NCAA didn't institute their SCIAC exception for the NWC  ;D

And Logs, be really glad that UPS isn't in the Elmhurst or St. Thomas brackets -- at least the travel thing works in your team's favor this year!  Sucks for the NWC, but really works better for UPS or Whitworth, whichever team makes it out of the 2nd round.

That's true, but just know the sweet 16 will be in wisconsin...I've heard the town of stevens point is a great place to visit in march.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 04:29:18 PM
Add your NCAA temas profiles here:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6299.0
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 04:30:09 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 03:31:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 01:28:37 PM
I am just glad the NCAA didn't institute their SCIAC exception for the NWC  ;D

And Logs, be really glad that UPS isn't in the Elmhurst or St. Thomas brackets -- at least the travel thing works in your team's favor this year!  Sucks for the NWC, but really works better for UPS or Whitworth, whichever team makes it out of the 2nd round.

That's true, but just know the sweet 16 will be in wisconsin...I've heard the town of stevens point is a great place to visit in march.

Not if St. Thomas beats UWSP.  The Twin Cities are a much nicer place to spend a March weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 04:31:06 PM
Whoever wins on the left coast can pretty much count on a trip to the midwest.  That's the way we do things around here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 03:50:40 PM
That's true, but just know the sweet 16 will be in wisconsin...I've heard the town of stevens point is a great place to visit in march.

Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:02:43 PM
oh i didn't even look into the sectionals...UPS will be heading to UW-Stevens Points.  That's 2 for 2.   8)  ;D

They will? So St. Thomas, ranked #1 and undefeated and playing in its own gym this weekend, is going to just roll over for the Pointers on Saturday night? Interesting.

And UWSP is going to host the sectionals, over (possibly) Wheaton or Wash U? Also interesting.

That's one heck of a crystal ball you've got there, LogShow. ;)

Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PM
I feel like Whitworth could go to the East bracket and win the whole thing.

There are fans from at least eight or nine other schools in the Midwest/West section that are saying the exact same thing.

Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PMLoving that UPS got the equivalent of a one seed.

For all of the annual bitching about the tournament's bracket construction that resounds from the Left Coast every March -- and, yes, much of it is justified -- there's at least the consolation that a Left Coast team is more likely than anyone else to draw an undeserved first-round bye. And that's exactly what happened this year.

Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PM
  too bad WW and UPS will have to play eachother so early. 

I wonder how the sweet 16 will go if one of the two win, probably fly Whitworth to the midwest, any chance the UPS would get to stay home you think?

There's no chance in hell that the NCAA is going to fly three teams to the State of Washington for the Midwest/West sectional. Get used to the fact that the winner of the CMS/Whitworth/UPS triad is going to be playing the weekend after next in Wisconsin, St. Paul, St. Louis, or Chicagoland.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 05:29:58 PM
Isn't that what I already said, Sager? 

I agree that the team to worry about is St. Thomas -- not Stevens Point.  We, on the left coast, just have a history with the WIAC to worry about.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 02, 2009, 05:51:34 PM
All right guys, I stayed away for a few days, it's like when the Seahawks lose, I don't want to watch Sportscenter.  I think it's safe to say the Loggers didn't play a good game on Saturday and that WW played better.  Great three point shooting from your guards, Antwan Williams did not have a good game.

However, I will say that that was some of the worst officiating I've ever seen and forces me to wonder about an effort to guarantee two teams in the national tournament.  Lets talk about the play where Robert Kraul ended up on the floor, injured.  I can guarantee the referees weren't paying attention to the initial foul as he was clearly held on his arm attempting the shot because they didn't seem to notice that he was hurt either until Lunt was all the way out on the floor screaming at them along with the entire student section.  Simply unacceptable in my opinion.  Also, the whining and posturing from WW's coach, it's disgraceful.

As far as the chants, the SAT chant was stupid, any fan getting into it with other fans, the middle fingers, the gestures saying 'come over here', etc, they're stupid and I'll admit it.  Chalk it up to underclassmen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 02, 2009, 05:58:34 PM
-first time poster
-longtime WW Pirate fan
-longtime small college basketball fan


I realize the need for the NCAA to keep costs down.  I do not have as big a problem with a few necessary pods each year, ex. Whitworth and UPS having to play each other in round 1 or 2.  I have a larger problem with the NCAA including ranked teams 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,20,25, and 2 in others receiving votes within the same section of the bracket.  Only one of those listed teams will even make it to the elite 8!

Not only will the 4 best teams not be in the final four...They don't even have a shot to get there.

Drawing direct comparisons to Division 1 teams does not always make sense but in this case that would mean ONLY ONE team from this pool: (Pitt, Uconn, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Memphis, Louisville, Duke, Illinois, Texas, Syracuse, and Arizona) would make it to the Elite 8. 

The NCAA's deal with CBS through 2011 was worth over 1 billion dollars to the NCAA.  That is only one TV and  web rights deal!    Are you really going to tell me that there isn't an extra 50-100k in the budget to make the division 3 tournament a bit more fair for the players and coaches who work hard to become a top 10 team in the country?

Where is the reward for being 25-0 vs. 20-5?  You will play the same teams in the tournament in the same round.  Oh wait you might earn a home game!

Congrats to UPS and WW for a great year.  Hopefully one of them gets out of the sweet 16.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 06:05:41 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 05:29:58 PM
Isn't that what I already said, Sager? 

Isn't what what you already said?

Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 05:29:58 PM
I agree that the team to worry about is St. Thomas -- not Stevens Point.  We, on the left coast, just have a history with the WIAC to worry about.

I'm not saying that St. Thomas should be the team that NWCers worry about, rather than UWSP. I'm saying that both the Tommies and the Pointers merit worry, contra LogShow's casual disregard of UST.

I understand that NWCers have learned the hard way that WIAC teams make brutal opponents in the big dance, and that they thus tend to lean towards fretting about possible matchups with the WIAC. All I'm saying is that UST isn't chopped liver; I honestly don't know which team I'll pick in Saturday night's likely UWSP @ UST tilt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 06:08:29 PM
P4L, welcome aboard!

A small correction: only TWO of those teams will (probably) make the Elite 8; only one can make the Final Four.

This year's 'real' FF is clearly the Midwest/West sectional.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 06:12:18 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 02, 2009, 05:58:34 PM
-first time poster
-longtime WW Pirate fan
-longtime small college basketball fan


I realize the need for the NCAA to keep costs down.  I do not have as big a problem with a few necessary pods each year, ex. Whitworth and UPS having to play each other in round 1 or 2.  I have a larger problem with the NCAA including ranked teams 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,20,25, and 2 in others receiving votes within the same section of the bracket.  Only one of those listed teams will even make it to the elite 8!

Not only will the 4 best teams not be in the final four...They don't even have a shot to get there.

Drawing direct comparisons to Division 1 teams does not always make sense but in this case that would mean ONLY ONE team from this pool: (Pitt, Uconn, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Memphis, Louisville, Duke, Illinois, Texas, Syracuse, and Arizona) would make it to the Elite 8. 

The NCAA's deal with CBS through 2011 was worth over 1 billion dollars to the NCAA.  That is only one TV and  web rights deal!    Are you really going to tell me that there isn't an extra 50-100k in the budget to make the division 3 tournament a bit more fair for the players and coaches who work hard to become a top 10 team in the country?

Where is the reward for being 25-0 vs. 20-5?  You will play the same teams in the tournament in the same round.  Oh wait you might earn a home game!

Congrats to UPS and WW for a great year.  Hopefully one of them gets out of the sweet 16.


Great post, but you're really preaching to the choir on this one. Everyone west of the Ohio-Indiana border is up in arms about this grossly-imbalanced bracket, but it is what it is. We all knew going in that this was likely to happen, because money is so tightly budgeted for the D3 tourney -- even more so in a tough economy. Yeah, the D1 men's basketball tourney is a moneymaking machine, but keep in mind that the D1 men's basketball tourney is what funds everything else in the NCAA. The D3 tourney doesn't make money, and is thus reliant upon whatever crumbs D1 chooses to throw our way.

We'd all like for there to be enough extra crumbs to balance out the bracket better, but we're not in a position to make that call.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 06:17:54 PM
True, but the women's selection committee does a much better job of 'spreading the wealth'.  Some adjustments could have been done at no expense to the NCAA.  Since the winner of the UPS pod will be flown anyway, they could have been flown elsewhere.  Wash U. could have headed south, Wheaton and/or Elmhurst could have headed east, etc.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 02, 2009, 06:21:53 PM
Can we form a government agency to regulate the NCAA tournament selections?   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 06:17:54 PM
True, but the women's selection committee does a much better job of 'spreading the wealth'.  Some adjustments could have been done at no expense to the NCAA.  Since the winner of the UPS pod will be flown anyway, they could have been flown elsewhere.  Wash U. could have headed south, Wheaton and/or Elmhurst could have headed east, etc.
EXACTLY!!  I am just going to say that it was pretty "thoughtless" or worse, a lazy effort.  :o ::)
+1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 02, 2009, 06:28:22 PM
If Div I is forced to pay for everything, why not raise the ticket fees at our level?  Personally, I would be more than willing to pay the 6 bucks that I am paying for this Thursday's tickets.  The game and my team are worth much much more than that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 06:30:11 PM
Chuck, I'm not sure that Wheaton, Elmhurst, Hope, et. al. could've been sent east, because the overflow from the Northeast/East section had to go somewhere. Look at the two eastern sections: Northeast/East teams take up eleven of the sixteen slots in the upper-right section (and the NYC and Long Island schools might as well be considered among that crowd as well), and seven of the sixteen slots in the lower-right section. And there were still two teams left over -- Medaille and Brockport State. Since they're western New York schools, matching them with a Pittsburgh-based team and a Cleveland-based team makes sense (Wooster's been matched up with western New York teams in the past, so there's precedent there). That means that the flow of the bracket pushes westward, not eastward.

Wash U could've been moved to the Centre pod, but the same problem exists: How do you send a team eastward when the whole flow of the bracket goes westward?

Your point that the CMS/Whitworth/UPS triad's winner could've been slotted anywhere, since a plane ride is a plane ride, is a good one, though. If the Left Coast's rep in the Sweet Sixteen was playing somewhere in New Jersey or Virginia or Massachusetts on the second weekend of the tourney, it would've eased up the competitive logjam in the Midwest/West sectional at least a little.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 06:37:10 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 02, 2009, 06:28:22 PM
If Div I is forced to pay for everything, why not raise the ticket fees at our level?  Personally, I would be more than willing to pay the 6 bucks that I am paying for this Thursday's tickets.  The game and my team are worth much much more than that.
Another good solution/point.  Lets see @ $15.00 per ticket times 1500 (avg attendance) times 44 games = $990,000 less the $6 being charged, that's $594,000 to fly and board maybe 12 teams...could easily work.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 02, 2009, 06:47:02 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 06:37:10 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 02, 2009, 06:28:22 PM
If Div I is forced to pay for everything, why not raise the ticket fees at our level?  Personally, I would be more than willing to pay the 6 bucks that I am paying for this Thursday's tickets.  The game and my team are worth much much more than that.
Another good solution/point.  Lets see @ $15.00 per ticket times 1500 (avg attendance) times 44 games = $990,000 less the $6 being charged, that's $594,000 to fly and board maybe 12 teams...could easily work.
Exactly my point, thanks for doing the math for me.  I dont know what they charge at DI tourney games (haven't been to one yet...), but it warrants the question of the Indianapolis group.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 07:14:44 PM
Regarding the officiating on Saturday - I wasn't there, so I can't speak to any specific calls.  But when both Jurich and Montgomery went out in the second half with their fourth foul, the total foul count at the time was 15-6 against Whitworth.  That's according to the live statistics provided by UPS.  Sure doesn't sound like a conspiracy to get two teams into the tournament to me.

UPS4L ably demonstrates the natural blindness in being a fan.  The same behavior is demonstrated by each coach, but one is disgraceful.  And while his memory of Krauel going down is strong, his memory of Gebbers spending several minutes on the floor is surely fuzzy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Buc Up on March 02, 2009, 07:47:51 PM
Pineconefan,

You make some very good points.  I bet that every team since the arrival of Bridgeland and then now with Lunt feels that has played a game at UPS feels that the UPS players foul way more than they are whistled for and that the UPS coaches are just as animated and in most cases more than the visiting coach.  For a UPS fan to pick out an incident and espeially just one, that is crazy.

I was at the game and it was poorly officiated at times on both ends, but if anyone should be complaining... the 15-6 against Whitworth might be the side to complain about.  Jurich fouled out early and Montgomery played a long time with 4 fouls.  There were a few others with 3 fouls midway through the second half.

Whitworth was the better team that night.  If the teams get to play again, we will just have to wait and see who the better team is. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 02, 2009, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 07:14:44 PM
Regarding the officiating on Saturday - I wasn't there, so I can't speak to any specific calls.  But when both Jurich and Montgomery went out in the second half with their fourth foul, the total foul count at the time was 15-6 against Whitworth.  That's according to the live statistics provided by UPS.  Sure doesn't sound like a conspiracy to get two teams into the tournament to me.

UPS4L ably demonstrates the natural blindness in being a fan.  The same behavior is demonstrated by each coach, but one is disgraceful.  And while his memory of Krauel going down is strong, his memory of Gebbers spending several minutes on the floor is surely fuzzy.
As do most UPS fans...I was in Memorial Fieldhouse for the last conference game.  The refing was horrible then too.  Interestingly enough, supposedly one of the ref's (the one who kept issuing the technicals) was a 'respected' pac-10 ref.  He certainly did not earn much respect that night in alot of people eyes and ears.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:15:12 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 07:14:44 PM
Regarding the officiating on Saturday - I wasn't there, so I can't speak to any specific calls.  But when both Jurich and Montgomery went out in the second half with their fourth foul, the total foul count at the time was 15-6 against Whitworth.  That's according to the live statistics provided by UPS.  Sure doesn't sound like a conspiracy to get two teams into the tournament to me.

UPS4L ably demonstrates the natural blindness in being a fan.  The same behavior is demonstrated by each coach, but one is disgraceful.  And while his memory of Krauel going down is strong, his memory of Gebbers spending several minutes on the floor is surely fuzzy.

Pinecone,

I was at the game...there was absolutely nothing vicious or intentional about when Gebbers went down.  He was guarding Williams close.  Willams went to move and they hit heads, completely unintentionally.  Williams had to come out of the game and get a bandage on his head.  Its too bad that happened...but it was accidental contact on both sides and there was nothing malicious about it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:17:11 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 02, 2009, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 07:14:44 PM
Regarding the officiating on Saturday - I wasn't there, so I can't speak to any specific calls.  But when both Jurich and Montgomery went out in the second half with their fourth foul, the total foul count at the time was 15-6 against Whitworth.  That's according to the live statistics provided by UPS.  Sure doesn't sound like a conspiracy to get two teams into the tournament to me.

UPS4L ably demonstrates the natural blindness in being a fan.  The same behavior is demonstrated by each coach, but one is disgraceful.  And while his memory of Krauel going down is strong, his memory of Gebbers spending several minutes on the floor is surely fuzzy.
As do most UPS fans...I was in Memorial Fieldhouse for the last conference game.  The refing was horrible then too.  Interestingly enough, supposedly one of the ref's (the one who kept issuing the technicals) was a 'respected' pac-10 ref.  He certainly did not earn much respect that night in alot of people eyes and ears.

Have you watched the Pac-10 this year...it is one of/if not the worst officiated conference in D1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 08:19:26 PM
Logshow - Didn't mean to insinuate there was anything malicious and Castle certainly did not say there was on his broadcast.  Just making the point about what we see on the floor as fans.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:24:09 PM
Sager,

I wasn't intentionally overlooking St. Thomas...just was thinking about all the past history with UW-SP and wasn't surprised when I saw the potential match-up with them.  I would have been much more correct in saying that the winner of the UPS pod with be heading to the Mid-West.  

I know St. Thomas is good, very good. But I don't know much about them.  I know more then enough about UW-SP.  That being said...both teams are tough, and if UPS makes it to play either of them, UPS will have to play a great game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Buc Up on March 02, 2009, 08:24:55 PM
Anyone have thoughts on the all-league stuff?

I am a bit suprised that Jurich was not higher on the second team list if not on the bottom of the first team list.  Montgomery who was very dominant at times didn't event get honarable mention...

Anyone else feel that their teams were not well represented?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:25:51 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 08:19:26 PM
Logshow - Didn't mean to insinuate there was anything malicious and Castle certainly did not say there was on his broadcast.  Just making the point about what we see on the floor as fans.

Fair enough Pinecone, I just wanted to make sure that was clear.  You are right about different perspectives.  I am sure both coaches were unhappy about the way the calls went.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:28:31 PM
Big congratulations to Coach Lunt and Foster!

Lunt has worked extremely hard and deserved it.  Now its time to get it done in the NCAA.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:30:24 PM
Also congrats to all the other Loggers that made it...5 in all.

Any idea why there were 7 instead of the usual 6 on the NWC 1st team?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Buc Up on March 02, 2009, 08:50:40 PM
Here is me making a case that Jurich got overlooked for his contributions.  Keep in mind that Whiworth was the top defensive team in the league in nearly every category and it was also in the top half of many other offensive and rebounding categories as well as finishing 2nd in the league and conference tournament champions.  Other than maybe Nakamura who is the offensive engine of the Pirates, it is safe to say the Jurich is the defensive and rebounding backbone as well as a great offensive player with his 3.5 assists per game, 1.51 assist to turnover ratio, 14.2 points per game and .526 field goal percentage.  He also had a triple double early in the year against Pacific.  I believe that he should have been a first teamer.

Conference stats only for Jurich:

Scoring:  14.2 for 10th best in the league

Rebounding:  8.3 for 2nd best in the league

Assists:  3.5 per game for 7th best in the league (Power Forward/Center)

FG %:  .526 for 7th best in the league

Blocked Shots:  1.0 for 5th best in the league

Offensive Rebounds:  2.94 for 2nd best in the league

Defensive Rebounds:  5.31 for 4th best in the league


Assist to turnover ratio:  1.51 for 6th best in the league

Minutes played:  30.88 for 12th best in the league (Not bad for a big man who playes physical)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 08:53:25 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:15:12 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 07:14:44 PM
Regarding the officiating on Saturday - I wasn't there, so I can't speak to any specific calls.  But when both Jurich and Montgomery went out in the second half with their fourth foul, the total foul count at the time was 15-6 against Whitworth.  That's according to the live statistics provided by UPS.  Sure doesn't sound like a conspiracy to get two teams into the tournament to me.

UPS4L ably demonstrates the natural blindness in being a fan.  The same behavior is demonstrated by each coach, but one is disgraceful.  And while his memory of Krauel going down is strong, his memory of Gebbers spending several minutes on the floor is surely fuzzy.
Pinecone,
I was at the game...there was absolutely nothing vicious or intentional about when Gebbers went down.  He was guarding Williams close.  Willams went to move and they hit heads, completely unintentionally.  Williams had to come out of the game and get a bandage on his head.  Its too bad that happened...but it was accidental contact on both sides and there was nothing malicious about it.

It doesn't have to be "malicious" or "intentional" to be called a foul.  Most times they aren't.  In fact, some "fouls" are player control issues where they trip or lose their balance.  But, they usually are seen by one of the three officials and called.  Especially ones that leave players writhing on the floor, like Gebbers and Krauel later in the game.  Those officials were terrible.  Whitworth not only had to outplay UPS, but the other three, as well.  Yes, I was at the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 02, 2009, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 03:31:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 01:28:37 PM
I am just glad the NCAA didn't institute their SCIAC exception for the NWC  ;D

And Logs, be really glad that UPS isn't in the Elmhurst or St. Thomas brackets -- at least the travel thing works in your team's favor this year!  Sucks for the NWC, but really works better for UPS or Whitworth, whichever team makes it out of the 2nd round.

That's true, but just know the sweet 16 will be in wisconsin...I've heard the town of stevens point is a great place to visit in march.

yes, great if u love snow, below 0 temperatures and working on your turkey call. those are all very popular there
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 09:10:08 PM
Well, Logs, if you're going to worry about weather, maybe Whitworth could go -- they're used to snow & cold. :D

For the record, I didn't think the refs last Saturday were fair at all, to either team.   They did call more fouls on Whitworth early on, though.  If you look at the box score, it's pretty even, but that wasn't how it played out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 02, 2009, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 07:14:44 PM
Regarding the officiating on Saturday - I wasn't there, so I can't speak to any specific calls.  But when both Jurich and Montgomery went out in the second half with their fourth foul, the total foul count at the time was 15-6 against Whitworth.  That's according to the live statistics provided by UPS.  Sure doesn't sound like a conspiracy to get two teams into the tournament to me.

UPS4L ably demonstrates the natural blindness in being a fan.  The same behavior is demonstrated by each coach, but one is disgraceful.  And while his memory of Krauel going down is strong, his memory of Gebbers spending several minutes on the floor is surely fuzzy.

Never said I didn't remember Gebbers going down, in fact I remember that play was immediately stopped and the player was cared for.  When players are flying through the air under a crowded hoop like they were on the play where Robert was hurt, I don't see how the referee standing behind baseline can't see that the player who just shot the ball is down?  That's pathetic.  

As far as the coaches go, what was WW's coach doing while Robert was down?  Lobbying.  

However, my final point is, that I don't claim UPS lost as a result of the officials, the shot poorly and made bad decisions.  Jason had a good game, that was about it.  I'm hoping Claremont beats WW so we don't have to see this game again, no matter how much I'd like to win the one that matters.  Finally, this bracket is a joke, I'll be shocked if whoever makes it out of ours isn't the national champ.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 02, 2009, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 05:16:14 PM
There are fans from at least eight or nine other schools in the Midwest/West section that are saying the exact same thing.
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PMLoving that UPS got the equivalent of a one seed.

For all of the annual bitching about the tournament's bracket construction that resounds from the Left Coast every March -- and, yes, much of it is justified -- there's at least the consolation that a Left Coast team is more likely than anyone else to draw an undeserved first-round bye. And that's exactly what happened this year.

GS, while I agree that UPS might not be as deserving of a 1st round bye as St. Thomas, I believe that they are still deserving of a bye as they only lost 1 game to a DIII all year and it was in the conference tournament final, just my opinion. Texas Dallas isn't even in the D3hoops top 25. are they more deserving of a bye than UPS, ST Thomas, Wash U? just my thoughts
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 02, 2009, 10:12:00 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 02, 2009, 07:14:44 PM
Regarding the officiating on Saturday - I wasn't there, so I can't speak to any specific calls.  But when both Jurich and Montgomery went out in the second half with their fourth foul, the total foul count at the time was 15-6 against Whitworth.  That's according to the live statistics provided by UPS.  Sure doesn't sound like a conspiracy to get two teams into the tournament to me.

UPS4L ably demonstrates the natural blindness in being a fan.  The same behavior is demonstrated by each coach, but one is disgraceful.  And while his memory of Krauel going down is strong, his memory of Gebbers spending several minutes on the floor is surely fuzzy.

the thing about the krauel going down was that he was hit by his own teammate, and i dont know if thats really what lunt was upset about, i think he was fouled when he put up the shot before getting hit and there was no call. i had a perfect view of both players going down as i was seated at that end of the court.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 10:47:00 PM
It was a pretty physical game, with a lot of non-calls, weird calls!  It actually works out for UPS to have Whitworth win, because with two NWC teams in the tournament, UPS gets a 1st round bye, instead of getting thrown to the Midwest lion den right away.    Of course, they might have to get past Whitworth first.   Although, didn't CMS beat Whitworth & Willamette in the pre-season?  Both close games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2009, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on March 02, 2009, 10:12:00 PM
the thing about the krauel going down was that he was hit by his own teammate, and i dont know if thats really what lunt was upset about, i think he was fouled when he put up the shot before getting hit and there was no call. i had a perfect view of both players going down as i was seated at that end of the court.
This is true.  Krauel got hit by his own player as he was Oscaring his way to the floor on his attempt and so Lunt wants a foul.  It happens.  Krauel is excellent at drawing fouls and I totally respect and understand that.  He was trying to draw the foul and was falling down and got monkey stomped by his own player, #12 I think.

WW coach was asking about something during the Krauel break but do we know what?  No.  Lobbying?  I'm pretty sure "lobbying" is what coaches do the whole game to refs.

Fact of the matter is WW played tough at a hostile Gym against a strong opponent.  Took UPS's best punch they might have thrown all this year with a crazy awesome run and gutted out a victory in OT.  I completely expect UPS to actually improve from that game and make Sat's game even more intense should WW and UPS face off again, and they will.

I think there is little chance of this game not being replayed next Sat.  Why?  WW lost only one time at home to UPS and homecourt advantage is big.  Rematch game of what some WW fans might say was WW worst game, in a tournament with no time to prepare for opponent.  They are peaking.  The list goes on....

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 11:19:21 PM
Quote from: logshock101 on March 02, 2009, 09:24:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 05:16:14 PM
There are fans from at least eight or nine other schools in the Midwest/West section that are saying the exact same thing.
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 02, 2009, 12:37:00 PMLoving that UPS got the equivalent of a one seed.

For all of the annual bitching about the tournament's bracket construction that resounds from the Left Coast every March -- and, yes, much of it is justified -- there's at least the consolation that a Left Coast team is more likely than anyone else to draw an undeserved first-round bye. And that's exactly what happened this year.

GS, while I agree that UPS might not be as deserving of a 1st round bye as St. Thomas, I believe that they are still deserving of a bye as they only lost 1 game to a DIII all year and it was in the conference tournament final, just my opinion. Texas Dallas isn't even in the D3hoops top 25. are they more deserving of a bye than UPS, ST Thomas, Wash U? just my thoughts

If merit is the standard rather than geography, then the first-round byes should go to four of the eight teams that are ranked at the top of their respective regions. Even though we didn't see that final regional ranking -- another argument with the NCAA that we can have another day -- Puget Sound was definitely not the top-ranked team in the West Region. St. Thomas was.

The Tommies merited a bye. So did Wheaton, Richard Stockton, John Carroll, etc. UPS didn't.

However, since UPS was probably ranked fairly high in the final unseen ranking, it's not that great of a travesty for the Loggers to draw the bye. They certainly merited it more than did UTD.

This really isn't an argument worth having, though, because it's understood that the geographical isolates will draw one or two byes per tournament. It's a given, and nobody really complains about it.

Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 10:47:00 PMAlthough, didn't CMS beat Whitworth & Willamette in the pre-season?  Both close games?

No, but CMS did beat Whitworth and Willamette in non-conference regular-season games. ;)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 12:15:32 AM
It's all semantics, Sager, since the "real season" to me is conference play.  Anyway, I was right about the game results?  So, why is Whitworth hosting CMS?  Seems that it should be the other way around -- not that I'm complaining! ;)

And logshock, both coaches were talking to the refs while Krauel was down.  Probably "lobbying" for different reasons.  There was also discussion when Gebbers went down.  One big difference:  Krauel returned to play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2009, 12:17:29 AM
Nothing gets by you Sager! lol.  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2009, 12:21:40 AM
It would be great if we could get a break down of the upcoming WW/CMS game from WW and CMS posters.  I know the WW posters are down...any CMS takers?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 12:31:27 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 12:15:32 AM
It's all semantics, Sager, since the "real season" to me is conference play.

It isn't semantics, since the real season to the NCAA begins on November 15 and includes every game tjhat appears on a team's W-L record -- especially regional games, such as CMS vs. Whitworth and CMS vs. Willamette.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 12:35:09 AM
So, you're right -- what else is there to say?  Story over?  This is me bowing in absolute humility to your greatness!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 12:37:17 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 12:35:09 AM
So, you're right -- what else is there to say?  Story over?  This is me bowing in absolute humility to your greatness!!

I'd let you kiss my ring, but I sent it out to be re-sized.  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 12:40:43 AM
Maybe later then?   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 12:52:00 AM
Take it up with the court chamberlain. Maybe he can fit you in tomorrow's royal audience. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 03, 2009, 12:53:04 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 08:30:24 PM
Also congrats to all the other Loggers that made it...5 in all.

Any idea why there were 7 instead of the usual 6 on the NWC 1st team?


No answer for why there was one extra first teamer.

Is anyone else surprised Nate Montgomery of WW didn't even receive honorable mention?
There were a few games this year that Nate had to take a backseat to the up tempo game plan and a few others where he didn't show up but he was:

top 20 scoring
top 10 rebounding
top 10 blocked shots
top 15 FG %
top 15 FT %

Not to mention averaging 24.5 pts and 16 rebs in the conference tournament.

Any other thoughts?

In terms of the CMS-WW game, I do not think WW will underestimate the opponent.  After all they were beaten by CMS earlier this year.  CMS does a few things that give WW trouble.  They remind me a lot of the recent Willamette teams (very physical, play tough defense, and rebound the ball well)

My prediction: low scoring and physical game.

WW 66
CMS 58

Players of the game will be seniors Ross and Calvin controlling the ins and outs for WW.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 01:01:06 AM
You guys could be in for a rare treat if Whitworth @ Puget Sound comes to pass on Saturday. A tournament game can take a rivalry to a whole 'nother level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2009, 01:06:29 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2009, 12:21:40 AM
It would be great if we could get a break down of the upcoming WW/CMS game from WW and CMS posters.  I know the WW posters are down...any CMS takers?
Cmon LogShow this is the SCIAC we are talking about..average game attendance 147, including the players, coaches, ref's and ref's girlfriends.  Other than OxyBob and 3 or 4 others, we are talking to ourselves this week.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 01:01:06 AM
You guys could be in for a rare treat if Whitworth @ Puget Sound comes to pass on Saturday. A tournament game can take a rivalry to a whole 'nother level.
That level could be pretty ugly.  It's a bitter rivalry and the UPS style is about challenging opponents physical and mental toughness.  Ref's last Sat. couldn't handle the intensity.  They tried, but failed.  Hopefully, the officiating Sat will have some added presence, and keep things from getting out of hand.  Coaches can help here as well and insist on a high level of class and respect of their own players and bench.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 03, 2009, 01:07:42 AM
Gotta focus on what's ahead.  CMS beat Whitworth down in SoCal, fair and square.  That will give the Mudders confidence.  Oxy gave the Bucs quite a run last year and I wouldn't expect anything different from Claremontmckennaharveymuddscripps.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 03, 2009, 01:16:45 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 01:01:06 AM
You guys could be in for a rare treat if Whitworth @ Puget Sound comes to pass on Saturday. A tournament game can take a rivalry to a whole 'nother level.

WW-UPS:

Played 11 times in the last 4 yrs including 3 conference championship games!

5 WW wins (2 championship game wins)
6 UPS wins (1 championship game win)

You are correct Sager.  I think this is going to be a WAR...IF WW can get past CMS.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2009, 01:17:26 AM
2009 All-Northwest Conference Men's Basketball Team


Coach of the Year: Justin Lunt, Puget Sound
Player of the Year: Jason Foster, Puget Sound

First Team All-Northwest Conference:
Jason Foster, Puget Sound (F, 6'7", Sr., Spanaway, Wash. - Henry Foss HS)
Robert Krauel, Puget Sound (F, 6'4", Sr., Phoenix, Ariz. - North Canyon HS)
Antwan Williams, Puget Sound (G, 6'0", Sr., Portland, Ore. - Madison HS)
Ross Nakamura, Whitworth  (G, 6'1", Sr., Moraga, Calif. - Diablo Valley Coll.)
Chris Faidley, Whitman (G, 6'2", Sr., Shoreline, Wash. - King's HS)
Cameron Mitchell, Willamette (P, 6'7", Jr., Portland, Ore. - Univ. of Redlands)
David Riley, Whitworth (G, 6'5", So., Palo Alto, Calif. - Gunn HS)

Second Team All-Northwest Conference:
Kyler McClary, Willamette (P, 6'5", Sr., Hillsboro, Ore. - Glencoe HS)
Josh Kollasch, Lewis & Clark (G, 6'3", Jr., Tucson, Ariz. - Western State Univ.)
Cody Tesoro, Linfield (G, 5'10", Jr., Kahului, Hawaii - Western Oregon Univ.)
K.C. Wiser, Linfield (C, 6'8", So., Tigard, Ore. - Tigard HS)
Calvin Jurich, Whitworth  (P, 6'6", Sr., Spokane, Wash. - University HS)

Honorable Mention All-Northwest Conference:
Garold Howe, Pacific (Ore.) (F, 6'6", Sr., Salem, Ore. - Chemeketa CC)
Erik Olson, Linfield (F, 6'4", Sr., South Strafford, Va. - UW-River Falls)
David Berggren, Lewis & Clark (F, 6'6", Sr., Tualatin, Ore. - Tualatin HS)
Tyson Papenfuss, Lewis & Clark (F, 6'5", Sr., Clackamas, Ore. - Mt. Hood CC)
Austin Boyce, Puget Sound (F, 6'5", Jr., Kent, Wash. - Kentwood HS)
Alex Stockner, George Fox (P, 6'4", Jr., Monmouth, Ore. - Western Oregon Univ.)
Nadav Heyman, Puget Sound (G, 6'1", Fr., Corvallis, Ore. - Corvallis HS)

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/news/allnwc
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 03, 2009, 02:19:26 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 02, 2009, 10:47:00 PM
Although, didn't CMS beat Whitworth & Willamette in the pre-season?  Both close games?

Yeah, Willamette was up by double digits with around eight minutes to play and blew the lead.  Sound familiar?

Ugh . . .  :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 03, 2009, 03:43:02 AM
Quote from: P4L on March 03, 2009, 12:53:04 AM
Any idea why there were 7 instead of the usual 6 on the NWC 1st team?

There may have been a tie in votes between the 6th and 7th member of 1st team all conference.
Quote from: P4L on March 03, 2009, 12:53:04 AM
Is anyone else surprised Nate Montgomery of WW didn't even receive honorable mention?

I am very surprised Montgomery did not make at least second team, I have seen him play a couple times this year and to me he was definitely the better of the two between him and Jurich. Look out for Montgomery next year as he will have added motivation to work over the off season. If I was him I would be pissed and come out dominating next year. As for a couple of down games for Montgomery, same could be said for Jason Foster the MVP. Against Linfield Foster averaged 2.5 points a game, I personally believe that Williams was the MVP. 

I think Whitworth may have a better chance at going further than UPS in the tournament because they have size, something that UPS lacks. A big team that takes care of the ball knocks UPS out I would think.  They are not as talented overall and not as big as the teams Bridgeland had when he won a few conference championships in a row and those teams got beat by teams from Wisconsin that were big and did not turn the ball over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 04:22:22 AM
So, formercat, welcome.   Is that a former Bear or Wild Cat?

I agree with you about Montgomery.  Those all conference teams are just designed to make people feel bad.  There's not enough positions for all of the talent in the NWC.  IMO, a lot of people were overlooked.   Doesn't make them less talented, however!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 03, 2009, 05:37:14 AM
I would be a former wildcat.

after looking closely at the all nwc teams how did Josh Kollasch make the list over Montgomery? He is a nice player but he was only able to participate in 9 conference games.  AND how did the freshman guard for UPS make it over Montgomery?!?! They must have forgot to add him to the list. How does 5.2 points, 2.2 rebounds and 2 assists a game beat out 14 points 7 boards and 1 block?! unreal...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 03, 2009, 10:19:56 AM
QuoteIt usually is brutal.   If you live on the left coast, you gotta be toughER!
My edit.

I'm pulling for whatever West Coast team can pull the cart uphill.

That NWC All-Rewards team is another embarrassment to a fine basketball HISTORY at LINFIELD. The two also rans picked from LINFIELD were transfers from other colleges.  (Well,, sorry K.C.)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2009, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2009, 01:06:29 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2009, 12:21:40 AM
It would be great if we could get a break down of the upcoming WW/CMS game from WW and CMS posters.  I know the WW posters are down...any CMS takers?
Cmon LogShow this is the SCIAC we are talking about..average game attendance 147, including the players, coaches, ref's and ref's girlfriends.  Other than OxyBob and 3 or 4 others, we are talking to ourselves this week.


Hoops, don't you think the SIAC deserves a bit more credit?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:03:24 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2009, 01:06:29 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2009, 12:21:40 AM
It would be great if we could get a break down of the upcoming WW/CMS game from WW and CMS posters.  I know the WW posters are down...any CMS takers?
Cmon LogShow this is the SCIAC we are talking about..average game attendance 147, including the players, coaches, ref's and ref's girlfriends.  Other than OxyBob and 3 or 4 others, we are talking to ourselves this week.

I've seen Claremont play many times. (I think it's silly to call them Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. There aren't any Scrippsies, and Mudders are rare; I believe this year's roster is all from Claremont.) Anyway, here's my two cents about the Stags:

The name of the game with Claremont is defense. The Stags play a tough man-to-man. Their defenders drop off their man into help-side defense. The wing defenders hedge in the seams; CMS loves to attack from the side and get a lot of poke steals. They defend everything, and don't give you any easy open 3s. The Stags are good at cutting off passing lanes, and they usually don't get burned backdoor.  Away from the ball Claremont's man-to-man looks like a zone, with a defender pressuring the ball at all times. The Claremont guards are quick and sure-handed, they work around screens well, and they usually aren't susceptible to guard dribble penetration. Claremont will double team the low post, and they will also occasionally red the point guard. For the season, on average CMS only gave up 61 points per game.

On offense Claremont is deliberate. They don't run and like to set up and take their time looking for a good shot. For the season, on average the Stags scored 69 points per game. Their point guard Jason Toney likes to penetrate, and if someone comes over to help then Toney will drop it off to the open man. The Stags' outside threats are Connor Faught and Michael Bagby. Faught is particularly clutch, and if they need a big 3 look for him to take it. Bagby likes to catch and shoot from the wing, so if the ball goes into the block you have to be ready for the kickout and get over to cover him. You also have to keep an eye on Austin Soldner, who will pop from the outside. Claremont's best all-around player is Chris Blees. He averaged 13 pts and 7 boards a game. Blees is a smart, hard-nosed player who makes few mistakes, and much of the Stags' offense runs through him. CMS also has Patrick Lacey, a transfer from the University of San Diego, who's a physical wide body and pretty good with the ball around the basket. You also have to look out for Tejas Gala, the 6'6" string bean who's the Energizer Bunny out there.

Claremont is not a good FT shooting team. They were last in the SCIAC at 65%.

Because of their deliberate style, games with Claremont are usually low scoring and close. If CMS can keep the game in the 60s then they are tough to beat.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 03, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
Quoteattack from the side and get a lot of poke steals

Yep. Wooden always said to go for it. If you miss it might cost you but if you get it you are going to look great.

Tejas Gala....now is that a marquis name, or what?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:57:04 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 03, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
Tejas Gala....now is that a marquis name, or what?

http://www.marx-brothers.org/whyaduck/sounds/ducksoup/galaday.wav

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 03, 2009, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:03:24 PM
I've seen Claremont play many times. (I think it's silly to call them Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. There aren't any Scrippsies, and Mudders are rare; I believe this year's roster is all from Claremont.)

I knew a hot girl that went to Scripps. Too bad she's not on the team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 03, 2009, 10:19:56 AM
QuoteIt usually is brutal.   If you live on the left coast, you gotta be toughER!
My edit.

I'm pulling for whatever West Coast team can pull the cart uphill.

That NWC All-Rewards team is another embarrassment to a fine basketball HISTORY at LINFIELD. The two also rans picked from LINFIELD were transfers from other colleges.  (Well,, sorry K.C.)


Agreed  DOC -- some of the Linfield players were ones I was thinking of that got omitted.   There's just not enough positions to honor everyone who deserves it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 03, 2009, 03:11:42 PM
Has anyone ever thought about a NWC all star game at the end of the year?

I think it would be fun to have a WA vs. OR NWC all-star game OR... NWC vs. SCIAC which would be even better.  Obviously there would be problems including cost, venue, travel, ect... but greater feats have been accomplished.  Have a women's game followed by a men's game.  I would actually guess that depending on the location you could draw a decent crowd and have some of the cost problem taken care of.

Would be fun to see Williams (UPS) and Ross (WW) in the same back court as well as a bunch of other combos.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 03, 2009, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 03, 2009, 03:11:42 PM
Has anyone ever thought about a NWC all star game at the end of the year?

I think it would be fun to have a WA vs. OR NWC all-star game OR... NWC vs. SCIAC which would be even better.  Obviously there would be problems including cost, venue, travel, ect... but greater feats have been accomplished.  Have a women's game followed by a men's game.  I would actually guess that depending on the location you could draw a decent crowd and have some of the cost problem taken care of.

Would be fun to see Williams (UPS) and Ross (WW) in the same back court as well as a bunch of other combos.



NWC all-stars vs. SCIAC all-stars! That would be awesome!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 04:16:21 PM
The NJAC all-stars play the CUNYAC all-stars every year after the season has concluded. Of course, the all-star teams only include seniors who have completed their eligibility, because NCAA rules require that all sanctioned games played by NCAA student-athletes be counted towards their eligibility maximum.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 03, 2009, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:03:24 PM
I've seen Claremont play many times. (I think it's silly to call them Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. There aren't any Scrippsies, and Mudders are rare; I believe this year's roster is all from Claremont.)
I knew a hot girl that went to Scripps. Too bad she's not on the team.

You might find this amusing, courtesy of Caltech:

http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/201/01/student.pdf

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2009, 04:34:20 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 03, 2009, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:03:24 PM
I've seen Claremont play many times. (I think it's silly to call them Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. There aren't any Scrippsies, and Mudders are rare; I believe this year's roster is all from Claremont.)
I knew a hot girl that went to Scripps. Too bad she's not on the team.

You might find this amusing, courtesy of Caltech:

http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/201/01/student.pdf

OxyBob

lol, nice!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 03, 2009, 05:42:54 PM
Would probably be hard to find money for an All Star game I would think?  Congrats to Jason Foster NWC MVP, an incredible all around player and a defensive force this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 03, 2009, 05:50:55 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 03, 2009, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:03:24 PM
I've seen Claremont play many times. (I think it's silly to call them Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. There aren't any Scrippsies, and Mudders are rare; I believe this year's roster is all from Claremont.)
I knew a hot girl that went to Scripps. Too bad she's not on the team.

You might find this amusing, courtesy of Caltech:

http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/201/01/student.pdf

OxyBob

What a fantastic find, OB! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 03, 2009, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 03, 2009, 12:15:32 AM
It's all semantics, Sager, since the "real season" to me is conference play.  Anyway, I was right about the game results?  So, why is Whitworth hosting CMS?  Seems that it should be the other way around -- not that I'm complaining! ;)

And logshock, both coaches were talking to the refs while Krauel was down.  Probably "lobbying" for different reasons.  There was also discussion when Gebbers went down.  One big difference:  Krauel returned to play.

that cause he got knocked the f@#$ out as chris tucker would say...from what i hear antwan has an extremely hard head literally
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 04, 2009, 03:28:25 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 03, 2009, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:03:24 PM
I've seen Claremont play many times. (I think it's silly to call them Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. There aren't any Scrippsies, and Mudders are rare; I believe this year's roster is all from Claremont.)
I knew a hot girl that went to Scripps. Too bad she's not on the team.

You might find this amusing, courtesy of Caltech:

http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/201/01/student.pdf

OxyBob

"Nine out of ten girls are beautiful, and the tenth one goes to Oxy." That's great. Gotta love that they included "local high schools" haha.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 04, 2009, 08:39:48 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 04, 2009, 03:28:25 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 03, 2009, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 12:03:24 PM
I've seen Claremont play many times. (I think it's silly to call them Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. There aren't any Scrippsies, and Mudders are rare; I believe this year's roster is all from Claremont.)
I knew a hot girl that went to Scripps. Too bad she's not on the team.
You might find this amusing, courtesy of Caltech:

http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/201/01/student.pdf
"Nine out of ten girls are beautiful, and the tenth one goes to Oxy." That's great. Gotta love that they included "local high schools" haha.

When I was at Oxy the running joke was that the women were really guys who had studied their balls off.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 04, 2009, 12:27:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 04:16:21 PM
The NJAC all-stars play the CUNYAC all-stars every year after the season has concluded. Of course, the all-star teams only include seniors who have completed their eligibility, because NCAA rules require that all sanctioned games played by NCAA student-athletes be counted towards their eligibility maximum.

Continuing on my All-Star game fantasy:

NWC all-stars (seniors):

Jason Foster (UPS)
Antwan Williams (UPS)
Ross Nakamura (WW)
Calvin Jurich (WW)
Chris Faidley (Whitman)
Kyler McClary (Will.)
Garold Howe (PAC)
Erik Olson (LIN)
David Berggren (LC)
Tyson Papenfuss (LC)
Josh Dressler (PLU)


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 04, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Add Robert Krauel if UPS gets three which they should.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on March 04, 2009, 01:16:05 PM
WW will definitely take down CMS.  WW is a much different team now than they were at the beginning of the season.  CMS playing in the hanger will also be a huge factor.  Both coaches are pretty disciplined, but Hayford has the ability to adjust more to the situation than Scalmanini.  Overall, the NWC is a much tougher league than the SCIAC, especially this year.  I don't see where CMS has the advantage in any category.  WW by 15.

An assistant coach told me that there was a tie for the 6 spot on the first team, so both made the first team all-NWC and that led to one less for the second team.   Kollasch is a sympathy selection since he almost died, but he would have been there or first team had he been healthy all year.  Haymen over Montgomery makes no sense at all.  Shaw from Whitman was a much better guard than Heyman if they needed a guard to fill out the team.  Other than that, I don't have much of a problem with the selections. 

I shudder to think about another game between UPS and WW.  I doubt there will be better refs, but one can hope.  The winner needs to be prepared for the next round, and that has not happened so far.   I have to go with UPS on the playoff rematch. 

An all-star game would be great, but it will never happen.  Too many politics involved.  But we can fantasize.

 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 04, 2009, 05:15:38 PM
I pick UPS again if the match up is with WW because I gotta believe the officiating will be on more of an even keel from both sides' perspectives and the obvious advantages of being home, etc.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2009, 06:51:52 PM
WW does need to get by CMS first...really looking forward to listening to the game tomorrow!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 04, 2009, 06:58:35 PM
Assuming that Whitworth gets past CMS on Thursday, I pick Whitworth over UPS, simply because in the NWC playoffs, it's Whitworth 2-0 and UPS 1-1.   Also if you look at the scores, it's Whitworth PF164/PA146 and UPS PF166/PA164.   Defense will win the game.  Whitworth has adjusted their defense since the regular season.  I think UPS peaked early and Whitworth is just getting started.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2009, 08:23:05 PM
It is my understanding that any player who gets a vote gets included in the HM section.  So how Montgomery got 0 is sad.  Truth is that big Nate most likely wasn't the game breaker in conference games in the eyes of the other coaches that he has been in playoffs.  I found it interesting that no player from PLU was named and they were a better team than last year. 


WW might be on the rise but no way would I say UPS is declining.  They are too solid, too mature, too good.  WW is what has been said already, FAMILIAR.  UPS doesn't have anything that WW hasn't seen from them.  The same is true the other way and so Hayford and Lunt prepare for these games with a long list.  Who wins Sat is talk for Friday...I am just looking forward to the rematch with CMS Thursday for now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on March 04, 2009, 09:49:04 PM
No player made it from PLU because their best player got suspended and was therefore left out of consideration.  And being a bottom team, you just don't earn the respect of an all-conference team.  Howe dropped from first team to honorable mention for that reason.  And Fox was lucky to get one in, and IMO it was the wrong one.

UPS peaked early the last two years and faded, but not this year.  They are on a mission and their only blip was last Saturday.  They won't blip again.  I agree that they will have trouble with the the other bigger teams they will face down the line, but I don't think they will in the rematch with WW.  But it will be interesting!  Looking forward to both games this week.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Buc Up on March 04, 2009, 11:34:34 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 04, 2009, 05:15:38 PM
I pick UPS again if the match up is with WW because I gotta believe the officiating will be on more of an even keel from both sides' perspectives and the obvious advantages of being home, etc.

UPS4Life,  What do you mean that the officiating with be on more of an even keel?  Do you mean that UPS will have about 10-15 more fouls called on them because of their "hands on defense" and then it will be even?  Or do you mean that you think the fouls should be even or actually more fouls called on Whitworth?  The fact that you even bring up the refs and a possibility that UPS LOST the game is crazy!!!  The advantage for UPS is that they are playing at home and are very good at the style of basketball that they play.

However, I bet that nothing is changing the in game plan for UPS.  What could they change?  On defense, they pick up full court, put their hands all over the person who is dribbling the basketball and jump the passing lanes.  They give up 2 on 1 and 3 on 2 fast breaks and open three pointers.  They are good at it, but nothing changes.  On offense, they spread the court, drive and dish.  They are very good at shooting three pointers and finishing around the basket.  They thrive on turnovers by the other team and momentum.  They make the game, a game of runs.

Whitworth will actually game plan and adjust.  They will try and expose weakness and take advantage of their own strengths.  Lunt's game planning is done during the recruiting process and through being a good motivator.  As far as in game adjustments and game planning, there is none!  They play the same style against every opponent.  Sure he has tweaked things a little since Bridgeland, but what you see with UPS is what you get.  That is not to take anything away from them because they are very good at what they do.

Do not think it is a fluke that UPS happens to shoot poorly in games against Whitworth since they are traditionally at the top or near the top of the nation in defensive field goal percentage.  However, if UPS is shooting contested shots well, they will be very tough to beat.  Unlike UPS, Whitworth does not get out of position often on defense.  They make proper rotations and contest shots.  When the shot goes up, they find a man to block out.  Jurich and Montgomery (worst snub in NWC history to not even get one vote and receive honorable mention) are susceptible to foul trouble against a team like UPS who gets into the lane as they are the defenders of the basket.  They way Kraul and Foster crash the boards also draws fouls on opponents big men.

Hayford will have an excellent game plan and if the Pirates shoot well, they have a very good chance to win.  Of course, Whitworth has a touch matchup with Claremont to get through first and I can guarantee they are not overlooking them.  Whitworth had been on the road around 15 days in a row when the lost at Claremont and did not play well at all against them.   I predict Whitworth by an easy 12-15 with them pulling away at the end.

Montgomery 31-14 in the first round of the conference tourney against Linfield's good big men and 18-18 against Kraul and Foster in the game that got them into the tourney.  Not to mention some very good performances over the course of the year.  My prediction for the player of the year for next year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 05, 2009, 03:20:15 AM
By an even keel I meant that I'm predicting both sides will happier with the officiating than last time.  You can read whatever you want into that comment.  Call me crazy, but if Whitworth and Montgomery are so amazing, I don't see why they didn't go undefeated in regular season play.

As much as UPS thrives on turnovers, they also thrive on tiring the other team out and simply having more energy than them at the end of the game.  A lot of energy is expended just getting the ball over mid court.  This was evident in the last game against Lewis and Clark, down by double digits they had to run the clock to get a rest.  This was not the case against Whitworth on Saturday, UPS looked tired and made a number of poor plays as a result.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 05, 2009, 05:05:20 AM
Lewis and Clark was playing with a reduced roster, due to injuries and just not having a very large team to start with.  That's not a problem for Whitworth or UPS.  Actually, I didn't think UPS looked tired at all.  They played well & they played hard, but Whitworth played better and won the game.  I think they can do it again, but first they have to beat CMS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 05, 2009, 01:45:33 PM
IF....(and I say IF because I do not want to jinx it and I know CMS is a very good basketball team) there is another match-up between UPS and WW there will be one key to the game in my opinion.

UPS shoots 48% from 3 in the first match-up: UPS wins by 12
UPS shoots 44% from 3 in the second match-up: UPS wins by 10
UPS shoots 27% from 3 in the third match-up: UPS loses by 10 in OT.

If WW can get out on shooters (which is VERY difficult to do against UPS) or UPS simply has an off shooting night and comes in below 30-35% from 3 I think WW has another great chance to win.

If UPS shoots near 50% from 3 it will be all but over for WW.
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 05, 2009, 02:07:33 PM
That's my point, P4L, the reason that those shooting stats changed as they did, is because the Whitworth coaches made adjustments and created defensive problems for UPS, thus the change in shooting stats.  Did anyone else see the front page article on D3Hoops naming Whitworth as a possible Cinderella team in their bracket?  That's what I've been saying.   UPS should be cheering for CMS, because I don't think they want to face Whitworth again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 05, 2009, 04:12:19 PM
Maybe it was the defensive adjustments, maybe it was the hard mattress, or maybe it was the...well I won't go there, but everyone that has seen wedding crashers knows how that line ends.  UPS just needed to recharge their batteries. 

Sure WW played good D.  But UPS also missed a lot of good open looks from 3 and some lay-ups inside that they probably should have made.  But they didn't so hats off to WW for a good win.  As a logger fan I am not rooting for WW to lose or win...it shouldn't really matter.  You play who you play.  WW definately knows us better, but I am not worried or scared to play them.  UPS might have been dragging a bit last game, they hadn't lost since early December...its easy to get complacent.  Better then instead of in the NCAA.  I am willing to bet that UPS comes out with tons of energy and something to proove on Sat...I wouldn't want to be the first team to play them after a loss.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 05, 2009, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 05, 2009, 02:07:33 PM
That's my point, P4L, the reason that those shooting stats changed as they did, is because the Whitworth coaches made adjustments and created defensive problems for UPS, thus the change in shooting stats.  Did anyone else see the front page article on D3Hoops naming Whitworth as a possible Cinderella team in their bracket?  That's what I've been saying.   UPS should be cheering for CMS, because I don't think they want to face Whitworth again.

We are on the same page here bbaddict.  Much of it was due to defensive pressure by WW and a good job at it.  My only observation after looking at the stats was that out of TO differential, rebounding, etc... the stat which I could look at during the end of the game and know for sure who won is the UPS 3 point percentage.  Its as simple as this:

IF UPS 3pt %: 48%-up, THEN UPS will win

IF UPS 3pt %: 40%-47%, THEN UPS will likely win but the game will be close

IF UPS 3pt %: 30%-39%, THEN WW will likely win but the game will be close

IF UPS 3pt %: Below 30%, THEN WW will win
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 05, 2009, 06:19:02 PM
Wow, I'm  impressed P4L, with your analytical proficiency!!

Logs, I just think Whitworth HAS the firepower to win -- whether they use it or not.

And, that wasn't the first game that I saw UPS really have to work.  In the game at Willamette, they only won by 1 point.  And it was a hard, fought battle.  Once again, it wasn't a bad night for UPS -- WU just played really great D.   That was a tough loss!

BearcatPress -- what's your update on the coaching situation?  Rumor has it that Ione is the one.  Any rumors about the Women's head coaching position?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 05, 2009, 06:25:20 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 05, 2009, 06:19:02 PM
Wow, I'm  impressed P4L, with your analytical proficiency!!

Logs, I just think Whitworth HAS the firepower to win -- whether they use it or not.

And, that wasn't the first game that I saw UPS really have to work.  In the game at Willamette, they only won by 1 point.  And it was a hard, fought battle.  Once again, it wasn't a bad night for UPS -- WU just played really great D.   That was a tough loss!

BearcatPress -- what's your update on the coaching situation?  Rumor has it that Ione is the one.  Any rumors about the Women's head coaching position?

What can I say?  Basketball is a numbers game  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 05, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Seen every single home game for UPS this season and one away, they did not play well last Saturday.  They missed some open threes (as well as plenty of contested ones), they had some very painful lay ups roll off, especially near the end, and I saw Antwan make at least one if not more passes that I've never seen him make before, they were just awful, easily intercepted and they looked like the result of a tired, frustrated, and losing team.  I'm not saying WW didn't play great defense, but I definitely attest to a drop in the level of play I've see from the Loggers all season.  Not to mention Nakamura was hitting every 3, very impressive.

I'm rooting for Claremont because I'm just wanting a new match up, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think UPS is afraid to play Whitworth again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 05, 2009, 07:34:59 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 05, 2009, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 05, 2009, 02:07:33 PM
That's my point, P4L, the reason that those shooting stats changed as they did, is because the Whitworth coaches made adjustments and created defensive problems for UPS, thus the change in shooting stats.  Did anyone else see the front page article on D3Hoops naming Whitworth as a possible Cinderella team in their bracket?  That's what I've been saying.   UPS should be cheering for CMS, because I don't think they want to face Whitworth again.

We are on the same page here bbaddict.  Much of it was due to defensive pressure by WW and a good job at it.  My only observation after looking at the stats was that out of TO differential, rebounding, etc... the stat which I could look at during the end of the game and know for sure who won is the UPS 3 point percentage.  Its as simple as this:

IF UPS 3pt %: 48%-up, THEN UPS will win

IF UPS 3pt %: 40%-47%, THEN UPS will likely win but the game will be close

IF UPS 3pt %: 30%-39%, THEN WW will likely win but the game will be close

IF UPS 3pt %: Below 30%, THEN WW will win

IF UPS scores more than WW, THEN UPS will win

IF UPS scores less than WW, THEN WW will win
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 05, 2009, 08:09:12 PM
I think Jordis Rocks was trying to be funny, P4L.   Humor helps alleviate tension! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 05, 2009, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 05, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Seen every single home game for UPS this season and one away, they did not play well last Saturday.  They missed some open threes (as well as plenty of contested ones), they had some very painful lay ups roll off, especially near the end, and I saw Antwan make at least one if not more passes that I've never seen him make before, they were just awful, easily intercepted and they looked like the result of a tired, frustrated, and losing team.  I'm not saying WW didn't play great defense, but I definitely attest to a drop in the level of play I've see from the Loggers all season.  Not to mention Nakamura was hitting every 3, very impressive.

I'm rooting for Claremont because I'm just wanting a new match up, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think UPS is afraid to play Whitworth again.

UPS4Life,

I don't think UPS is going to be scared to play anyone in the tournament.  I do think that if you asked them which team was going to be a tougher test they would easily all say WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 05, 2009, 08:11:53 PM
My question is how Jordis Rocks has about 1 karma point for every other post.   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 05, 2009, 09:18:08 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 05, 2009, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 05, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Seen every single home game for UPS this season and one away, they did not play well last Saturday.  They missed some open threes (as well as plenty of contested ones), they had some very painful lay ups roll off, especially near the end, and I saw Antwan make at least one if not more passes that I've never seen him make before, they were just awful, easily intercepted and they looked like the result of a tired, frustrated, and losing team.  I'm not saying WW didn't play great defense, but I definitely attest to a drop in the level of play I've see from the Loggers all season.  Not to mention Nakamura was hitting every 3, very impressive.

I'm rooting for Claremont because I'm just wanting a new match up, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think UPS is afraid to play Whitworth again.

UPS4Life,

I don't think UPS is going to be scared to play anyone in the tournament.  I do think that if you asked them which team was going to be a tougher test they would easily all say WW.

You mean between Claremont and WW?  I would definitely agree with that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 05, 2009, 09:59:34 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 05, 2009, 09:18:08 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 05, 2009, 08:09:35 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 05, 2009, 07:28:01 PM
Seen every single home game for UPS this season and one away, they did not play well last Saturday.  They missed some open threes (as well as plenty of contested ones), they had some very painful lay ups roll off, especially near the end, and I saw Antwan make at least one if not more passes that I've never seen him make before, they were just awful, easily intercepted and they looked like the result of a tired, frustrated, and losing team.  I'm not saying WW didn't play great defense, but I definitely attest to a drop in the level of play I've see from the Loggers all season.  Not to mention Nakamura was hitting every 3, very impressive.

I'm rooting for Claremont because I'm just wanting a new match up, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think UPS is afraid to play Whitworth again.

UPS4Life,

I don't think UPS is going to be scared to play anyone in the tournament.  I do think that if you asked them which team was going to be a tougher test they would easily all say WW.

You mean between Claremont and WW?  I would definitely agree with that.

Ya, I meant between CMS and WW.  UPS has a bunch of seniors which is one of the reasons I do not think they get intimidated or scared to play anyone. 

Here's to a WW win and the NWC being represented well in the tourney!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 05, 2009, 10:12:41 PM
Really enjoying the live video and Bob Castle in the background! 

WW needs to get the ball inside a bit more.  Can't rely on hitting threes all game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on March 05, 2009, 11:18:24 PM
Bob Castle is the man
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 06, 2009, 01:16:00 AM
Quote from: 80sshorts on March 05, 2009, 11:18:24 PM
Bob Castle is the man
Yes Castle is...THE MAN !

Whitworth wins by 18 running away in the second half 81-63.

See you all in Memorial Fieldhouse Satruday night !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 06, 2009, 01:18:05 AM
Well, here's to UPS and Whitworth - round four.

The good news is that the NWC will have a team in the final 16, no matter what.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 06, 2009, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 06, 2009, 01:18:05 AM
Well, here's to UPS and Whitworth - round four.

The good news is that the NWC will have a team in the final 16, no matter what.
Well put.  (I would +1 you but I dont know how to...)

Round 4 will be another nail biter I am sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 06, 2009, 01:52:14 AM
Not to interrupt the playoff banter (UPS by 5 over WW), but the Collegian did a Gordie James tribute issue this week, including articles by Cam Mitchell and myself.  Without knowing it, we both included the same story about Gordie schooling Cam on defense at practice this year.  Gordie's a tremendous individual, and it was a real pleasure to put the article together.  Cam's is the top link, mine is second.

http://www.willamettecollegian.com/2009/03/05/saying-goodbye-to-coach-james/

http://www.willamettecollegian.com/2009/03/05/gordie-james/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2009, 02:49:46 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 06, 2009, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 06, 2009, 01:18:05 AM
Well, here's to UPS and Whitworth - round four.

The good news is that the NWC will have a team in the final 16, no matter what.
Well put.  (I would +1 you but I dont know how to...)

Round 4 will be another nail biter I am sure.

Pretty much how we thought it would turn out, right?  Saturday's game should be a great one.

I took care of the +1 for you, 89Pirate, you have to have more posts (about 200?) before you have that ability.  Keep posting & you'll be there!

BearcatPress -- great articles.  Really enjoyed them.  Gordie will be missed!!  As is, Bruce.  Bearcat Hoops is in for transition.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 06, 2009, 06:23:09 AM
Sigh, I just wish I could root for WW farther into the tourney, stupid bracket.  All right, here's to a good game on Saturday night, best of luck to both sides.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2009, 11:27:17 AM
Bring on WW! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2009, 11:28:24 AM
matchup #4 is a bit overkill...but I bet UPS is looking for some redemption.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 06, 2009, 11:51:42 AM
I am assuming Gebbers will be back for WW and both teams will be at full strength.  This game will be a final 4 atmosphere and match-up.  Only bad thing about this game is that there are going to be some seniors on one side or the other that leave everything including their jerseys on the floor.

Personally, I am hoping for a physical game, but no injuries, because as much as it pains me to say it...if UPS advances I want them to win it all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2009, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 06, 2009, 11:51:42 AM
Only bad thing about this game is that there are going to be some seniors on one side or the other that leave everything including their jerseys on the floor.

Is that like when wrestlers (not WWE) leave their shoes on the mat when they retire?  ??? ;D :D ;) :P ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 06, 2009, 01:31:08 PM
haha.  Didn't know about that one.  I've always been an Ultimate Warrior fan.

http://ultimatewarriortv.com/

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2009, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 06, 2009, 06:23:09 AM
Sigh, I just wish I could root for WW farther into the tourney, stupid bracket.  All right, here's to a good game on Saturday night, best of luck to both sides.

True, but the upside is that TWO NWC teams made it as far as the second round.  That has to be good for our playoff history, right?

So, I have to take Whitworth --- many reasons!   It'll be a good game, though.  Go Pirates!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 06, 2009, 05:00:46 PM
Should be a fantastic game!  If you are going make sure you get there early, the UPS athletic administration is TERRIBLE (in all aspects but especially) at getting the word out.  The line will be out the door! 

Also, UPS fans wear white!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 06, 2009, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 06, 2009, 05:00:46 PM
Should be a fantastic game!  If you are going make sure you get there early, the UPS athletic administration is TERRIBLE (in all aspects but especially) at getting the word out.  The line will be out the door! 

Also, UPS fans wear white!

Going for the white-out huh?  That should be fun.  I'll be there with a few friends for a Whit-out...ha....ha  Ok not that funny, but you are right about the game and I can't wait for tip off.

Let's hear predictions-

I say WW 87 UPS 86... last possession wins the game and it just happens to be Tim Sellereit with a drive to the basket!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 06, 2009, 07:27:33 PM
First, Timmy Tissue will not be making any last minute shots unless it's his last shot of the game (1-8 last night). 

Second, it's cool you guys are coming over, we heard at the end of the broadcast that there were busses coming over?  Apparently because of NCAA regulations you have to have the area right across from the Away team bench reserved for away team fans, which will be weird for us to have anyone from the other team sitting in the lower bowl.

We had a white out for the last Whitworth game, pretty awsome. 

Loggers win 84-72, unless Montgomery fouls out, then we win 84-23

Speaking of fans, I wanted to address a post which happened after the NWC championship saying our fans weren't very creative.  The problem, as I see it, is that no other fans are even in the same neighborhood as far as energy for an entire game.  We chant the entire game, there simply aren't enough chants.  In that game -

beyond the usual
UPS - clap
Let's go Loggers
Let's go Loggers Let's Go
Here We go Loggers Here we go
defense
de de de defense

We also have several different things we do for free throws.
we do things for specific players.
we do a variety of different countdowns which have given us 8 turnovers during the year.

We have chant sheets with all the chants (including ones just for that game) which are given to the student section before the game. 

No fans in the conference are more organized, no fans change the game more, and NO fans want to win, more than Logger fans.  see you there!

oh and here are the SAT's listed on collegeboard.com for UPS vs. Whitworth, that's why we chanted SAT scores...  Not too much difference, but according to these numbers, not all the whitworth kids who got in at Whitworth would get into UPS...

Critical Reading:
570 - 680
Math:
570 - 670
Writing:
560 - 660

Whitworth
Critical Reading:
550 - 660
Math:
550 - 650
Writing:
540 - 630 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2009, 08:01:28 PM
So, Tglassman, if it's SAT scores you're looking for, check out Lewis & Clark or Whitman.  But, this is basketball, so who cares?

It was me that complained about your cheers.  The favorites that night were:  UPS, UPS; B-****, B****; Our House and of course, the SAT one.  I say, with such an organized crowd, get some decent cheers.  You do have a good student cheering section, but what a waste of potential.  They definitely are NOT creative.  Loud, maybe, but not creative.

Also, are you really going to try the White-out again?  We all know how that worked for you last time.
Your comment,

"No fans in the conference are more organized, no fans change the game more, and NO fans want to win, more than Logger fans."

Simply undocumented and untrue.  The crowd that Whitworth had at the last game, while outnumbered, really shut up the UPS cheering section quite a few times.  Oh, and Whitworth won the game!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 06, 2009, 08:16:22 PM
Funny personal anecdote about the B*llsh*t chant.  I grew up as a fan of the University of Portland Pilots, and a couple of years ago UP's president, the Rev. E. William Beauchamp, informed their student fan club that they were no longer to chant obscenities during games, since it wasn't in keeping with the school's image.  So now at basketball games, when an official makes a particularly bad call, UP students chant:

BEAU-CHAMP!  BEAU-CHAMP!

It's fantastic.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 06, 2009, 08:28:51 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 06, 2009, 07:27:33 PM
No fans in the conference are more organized, no fans change the game more, and NO fans want to win, more than Logger fans. 

I call bull****
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on March 06, 2009, 08:53:02 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 06, 2009, 08:28:51 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 06, 2009, 07:27:33 PM
No fans in the conference are more organized, no fans change the game more, and NO fans want to win, more than Logger fans. 

I call bull****

Pio, you should definitely stay out of this conversation!  Sorry, but the Pio fans are by far the worst in the league!  :)

But what is all of this chatter about cheers.  Is this the women's page?  Just go cheer for your team and quit with the cheer post on this page, already!

I saw the WW-CMS game on the internet.  It was a much better game than I anticipated in the first half, and what I thought it would be in the second.  CMS put up a good fight, but WW was just better.

Now for the rematch.  I think it is all about UPS.  WW's game has risen, and they are playing very well right now.  I don't think they can play much better than they have the last two games, and are doing so at a high, competitive level.  Can UPS match that?  That is what it all comes down to.  My prediction: with just more talent  and depth, I have to say UPS by 5 in a great, physical game! 

Good luck to both teams!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2009, 09:30:17 PM
Bballaddict,

Are you a WW fan now?  I thought you were a Willamette fan? switching alliances...weak, but I am guessing its a anyone but UPS feeling.  You going to be sitting in the WW student section.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2009, 09:30:38 PM
Really excited for the game tomorrow though!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 06, 2009, 09:33:26 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2009, 09:30:17 PM
Bballaddict,

Are you a WW fan now?  I thought you were a Willamette fan? switching alliances...weak, but I am guessing its a anyone but UPS feeling.  You going to be sitting in the WW student section.

It's the "W" factor. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2009, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2009, 09:30:17 PM
Bballaddict,

Are you a WW fan now?  I thought you were a Willamette fan? switching alliances...weak, but I am guessing its a anyone but UPS feeling.  You going to be sitting in the WW student section.

It's not switching alliances when your team is done for the season.  My ties to Whitworth go waaaay back, but, yes when it's Bearcats vs. Pirates --- I'm a Bearcat fan!  As for "anyone but UPS"  --- nope, I have a lot of respect for UPS and enjoy watching them play.  If they beat Whitworth on Saturday, then I will cheer for UPS to represent the NWC.  I'm a little old to sit in the Whitworth student section, but I did almost get beat up in the Linfield student section years ago . . . it's a great story! ;D

One thing I have to point out about Whitworth, Willamette & UPS -- their colors are so similar that you sometimes have to look twice to see who someone is for.  Pretty safe to wear white or black if you want to blend in.

Sorry, LogShow, I think you have a really great basketball team, with a huge, enthusiastic cheering section that needs to learn new cheers.  That's all!! :D  Just yanking your chain!

And, for this game:  I predict Whitworth over UPS, but it will go to the wire, possibly OT and only be by 1 or 2.  That's how good these two teams are.  I wish the Bearcats were still in it, but I like basketball too much to be done for the season & Pro & D1 basketbal (isn't that redundant?) just doesn't do it for me.

TryMeTeam -- you're being kind of cranky.  I disagree with you about the Pios fans --- they definitely respect the whole "Keep Portland weird" thing.  And, give us a break -- this is the 4th time this season these two teams have played -- what else is there to talk about?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 06, 2009, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 06, 2009, 08:28:51 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 06, 2009, 07:27:33 PM
No fans in the conference are more organized, no fans change the game more, and NO fans want to win, more than Logger fans. 

I call bull****

Pio20--that cheer is already overused (and taken). ;)

P.S.  I think you have very creative & colorful fans!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 07, 2009, 12:15:23 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on March 06, 2009, 08:53:02 PM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 06, 2009, 08:28:51 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 06, 2009, 07:27:33 PM
No fans in the conference are more organized, no fans change the game more, and NO fans want to win, more than Logger fans. 

I call bull****
Pio, you should definitely stay out of this conversation!  Sorry, but the Pio fans are by far the worst in the league!  :)

I disagree...by my calculations Pio fans caused 13 turnovers throughout the season. We ALL didn't shower the night of the WW game causing major distractions to WW players. Oh, and one one Pio fan told me he really wanted to win this one game more than anything ever.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Whitworth Dad on March 07, 2009, 12:25:43 AM
I am dad of one of Whitworth's players and I enjoy following this blog.  You guys are great.  I just wanted to comment on Tglassman51's post about the differences in SAT scores between the schools.  I am a prof at Stanford so there is lot's of talk about SAT scores here and what they mean and there are three things to note about the score differences between WW and UPS:
1. It takes about a 100 point difference in scores to predict a difference in how two students will perform.
2.  There probably is not a statistical difference, and absolutely no difference in predicting academic performance between the two groups of students based on the differences between those SAT scores.
3.  Whitworth is a more touchy/feely kind of place than UPS.  They like to say they look at the whole person.  In some ways you could see this in my UW medical school class.  The UPS person (note singular person who got in from UPS that year) was always attending the business of medicine type extra lectures while us Whitworth types (note plural--more than 1 in the class) were mainstays in the international medicine and inner city clinic groups.

Finally, when I was in medical school at the UW I did not notice any difference in the intelligence level between my fellow students from the different NWC schools.  However, I was amazed at the how much pharmacology the Whitman students knew before we even started classes.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 07, 2009, 12:29:04 AM
This board has definitely taken a turn for the better in the postseason! :)

I for one want to hear bbaddict's story about the Linfield student section!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 01:25:14 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on March 06, 2009, 08:53:02 PM
Pio, you should definitely stay out of this conversation!  Sorry, but the Pio fans are by far the worst in the league!  :)
Guess you have never been to Whitman, at least LC has fans. :p :o

Gonna be a great game.  Key matchup is Nakamura and Williams.  Key stat is WW layups on press break.  WW actually did poorly here in last weeks loss.  Key stat is Foster blocks and Krauel flops.  They are both awesome at these two skills.  Haven't heard about Gebbers status but he sat Thu.  I am amazed at WW's ability to overcome sub par games from Riley and Sellereit the past 2 or 3 games.   Montgomery pulls 15+ boards...WW wins.  Williams has 7 or less points...WW wins.
Halftime score WW 50 UPS 40.   Final  WW 94-85.

WW is a true cinderella.  Stevens Point and St Thomas advance on Friday night, as expected.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 07, 2009, 03:21:32 AM
+1 for Whitworth Dad    8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:25:03 AM
On a totally non-basketball note, did anyone else see this on the NWC site?

March 4, 2009
Four NWC members receive President's Honor Roll Award for Service
Linfield, Whitman, Whitworth and Willamette have all been selected to receive the President's Honor Roll Award for Service in 2008.

Thought that was pretty cool for a conference the size of ours to be represented by four schools!  Part of that touchy feely thing that Whitworth Dad was talking about.

By the way, welcome to the board, Whitworth Dad.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 07, 2009, 05:06:17 AM
The talk about chants is kind of dumb, but you guys gotta realize Tom Glassman is the premier organizer of the UPS student section and takes great pride in his work so he's gonna argue this one out with you and I don't blame him, he's relentless.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 07, 2009, 05:14:00 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 01:25:14 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on March 06, 2009, 08:53:02 PM
Pio, you should definitely stay out of this conversation!  Sorry, but the Pio fans are by far the worst in the league!  :)
Guess you have never been to Whitman, at least LC has fans. :p :o

Gonna be a great game.  Key matchup is Nakamura and Williams.  Key stat is WW layups on press break.  WW actually did poorly here in last weeks loss.  Key stat is Foster blocks and Krauel flops.  They are both awesome at these two skills.  Haven't heard about Gebbers status but he sat Thu.  I am amazed at WW's ability to overcome sub par games from Riley and Sellereit the past 2 or 3 games.   Montgomery pulls 15+ boards...WW wins.  Williams has 7 or less...WW wins.
Halftime score WW 50 UPS 40.   Final  WW 94-85.

WW is a true cinderella.  Stevens Point and St Thomas advance on Friday night, as expected.



Robert a flopper?  Really? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 07, 2009, 05:14:00 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 01:25:14 AM
Gonna be a great game.  Key matchup is Nakamura and Williams.  Key stat is WW layups on press break.  WW actually did poorly here in last weeks loss.  Key stat is Foster blocks and Krauel flops.  They are both awesome at these two skills.  Haven't heard about Gebbers status but he sat Thu.  I am amazed at WW's ability to overcome sub par games from Riley and Sellereit the past 2 or 3 games.   Montgomery pulls 15+ boards...WW wins.  Williams has 7 or less points...WW wins.
Halftime score WW 50 UPS 40.   Final  WW 94-85.

Robert a flopper?  Really? 
It's not a criticism.  I really like his game.  He is excellent at drawing fouls and getting opponents off balance...then he falls down Oscar style. 

Stats prediction for tonight:

The NWC keeps and list's 19 team statistics on its site.  The team that ranks first in a category gets 9 points, 2nd 8, 3rd 7...etc.

WW  143 points
UPS  138 points

WW top of category in 8, UPS 7

Who is the better team? Statistically? WHITWORTH
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 07, 2009, 12:34:57 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 07, 2009, 05:06:17 AM
The talk about chants is kind of dumb, but you guys gotta realize Tom Glassman is the premier organizer of the UPS student section and takes great pride in his work so he's gonna argue this one out with you and I don't blame him, he's relentless.

AS a former player I have to say that the two places toughest to play are WW and UPS.  Obviously being good helps.  I don't think if WW goes 2-23 this year they have quite the fan support.  Also, these are the two schools that actually put some thought into their yelling.  It's much easier to ignore an "F*** YOU!" or profanity in general than someone talking about your parents, teachers, or myspace page.  If you make the player laugh you have gotten into their head.  A monkey can say F-YOU.

Quick story from ESPN the MAG on heckling:  There was a hockey player in the NHL years back with a larger than normal head.  His name was Rob Skrlac.  As he came into the arena he was greeted with a sign that said "What would you rather have: A Million Dollars or Skrlac's helmet full of nickles?"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 01:14:27 PM
I actually thought last saturday that WW did a good job getting lay-ups and easy buckets off of the UPS press.  The game had a much different feel then the one a few weeks before that when UPS clinched the conference.  Nothing was easy for WW that night...and Foster had 9 blocks.

All this talk about stats and what not has been great...but all the really matters is how the teams come out tonight and preform.  I am glad it's almost gametime. 

It is going to be a great atmosphere and game tonight!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 01:15:00 PM
P4L,

You played for WW?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 07, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
A few years ago when I made the six hour trip up to Whitworth to see the NWC final between WW and LC me and the group I was with chanted "pickleball" every time Bryan Williams went to the free throw line. This after I did a little research and discovered he loved to play pickleball. This apparently caused him so much distraction that his mom came over and asked us to leave him alone. I like to think that was a pretty good chant. Not mentioning there were only six of us chanting it compared to the 500 some Whitworth fans across the court.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 03:31:19 PM
So, these are the games tonight in the "Bracket of Death" that we  (NWC) are in:


#21 Whitworth @ #7 Puget Sound (UPS)
#4 UWSP @ #1 UST
#5 UW-P-ville @ #3 Wheaton at Elmhurst
#8 UW-Whitewater @ #2 ranked Washington


By gametime for UPS/Whitworth, the other 3 will probably have been decided (or pretty close) since they start at 8 p.m. EST.    The winner of the Whitworth/UPS game will play #1 or #4 somewhere in the midwest.  But, it also means in that bracket, 3 of the top 8 teams (as ranked by D3hoops) will be eliminated tonight.

So, how do you all see this playing out?  These are 2nd round games?????

I'm guessing P4L didn't play for Whitworth since he found that a tough place to play.  Or maybe he meant for others?

That's a great story Pio20--then did your group switch to "Your Mom" chants?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 07, 2009, 03:43:33 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 03:31:19 PM
That's a great story Pio20--then did your group switch to "Your Mom" chants?

haha no no..we kept it professional. Actually when WW came to LC earlier that season his fiancee came over and asked the LC fans to stop heckling Williams. He was a well protected man.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 03:45:26 PM
Are you kidding me!?  His mom and fiancee 2 separate times asked you to stop heckling him...wow. toughen up a bit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 01:14:27 PM
I actually thought last saturday that WW did a good job getting lay-ups and easy buckets off of the UPS press.  The game had a much different feel then the one a few weeks before that when UPS clinched the conference.  Nothing was easy for WW that night...and Foster had 9 blocks.

Logshow, WW did not register a single layup in that game on the play by play.  UPS had a few in second half.  I think you are confusing it with the games of 07 and 08 where we probably had 15 layups a game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 03:45:26 PM
Are you kidding me!?  His mom and fiancee 2 separate times asked you to stop heckling him...wow. toughen up a bit.
That's a couple of tough ladies there. Or are you saying the LC fans should toughen up?  Don't think for a second that BW sent them over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:20:11 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 03:45:26 PM
Are you kidding me!?  His mom and fiancee 2 separate times asked you to stop heckling him...wow. toughen up a bit.
That's a couple of tough ladies there. Or are you saying the LC fans should toughen up?  Don't think for a second that BW sent them over.

Now, nwhoops1903, don't you start sticking up for him!!  We know he's tough enough to take it.  I'd just say he's loved a lot to have that kind of protection!  It is a funny story, though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
So, back to basketball -- name your picks:

#21 Whitworth @ #7 Puget Sound (UPS)  -- Whitworth by a close one
#4 UWSP @ #1 UST  -- Tommies prevail
#5 UW-P-ville @ #3 Wheaton at Elmhurst --- Wheaton
#8 UW-Whitewater @ #2 ranked Washington  -- this one's tough -- Washington U

So, what do the rest of you think?  This is our beloved Bracket of Death -- should have some fun with it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 01:14:27 PM
I actually thought last saturday that WW did a good job getting lay-ups and easy buckets off of the UPS press.  The game had a much different feel then the one a few weeks before that when UPS clinched the conference.  Nothing was easy for WW that night...and Foster had 9 blocks.

Logshow, WW did not register a single layup in that game on the play by play.  UPS had a few in second half.  I think you are confusing it with the games of 07 and 08 where we probably had 15 layups a game.

maybe not easy lay-ups but WW definately had its fair share of close looks and open shots...For UPS to win tonight, they have to rebound, not give up easy points, and Foster has to stay out of foul trouble.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 04:36:46 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 03:45:26 PM
Are you kidding me!?  His mom and fiancee 2 separate times asked you to stop heckling him...wow. toughen up a bit.
That's a couple of tough ladies there. Or are you saying the LC fans should toughen up?  Don't think for a second that BW sent them over.

I am sure BW didn't send them over...I am willing to bet he was pissed when you found out they did.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 07, 2009, 04:38:58 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
So, back to basketball -- name your picks:

#21 Whitworth @ #7 Puget Sound (UPS)  -- Whitworth by a close one
#4 UWSP @ #1 UST  -- Tommies prevail
#5 UW-P-ville @ #3 Wheaton at Elmhurst --- Wheaton
#8 UW-Whitewater @ #2 ranked Washington  -- this one's tough -- Washington U

So, what do the rest of you think?  This is our beloved Bracket of Death -- should have some fun with it.


I dont' see the WIAC going 0-3 tonight.  I think they get one for sure.

BTW, the Platteville game is @ Wheaton and the Whitewater game is @ Elmhurst.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 07, 2009, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
So, back to basketball -- name your picks:

#21 Whitworth @ #7 Puget Sound (UPS)  -- Whitworth by a close one
#4 UWSP @ #1 UST  -- Tommies prevail
#5 UW-P-ville @ #3 Wheaton at Elmhurst --- Wheaton
#8 UW-Whitewater @ #2 ranked Washington  -- this one's tough -- Washington U

So, what do the rest of you think?  This is our beloved Bracket of Death -- should have some fun with it.


Okay, just to make you happy bballaddict...

UPS over WW...by 7, game will be closer, but FTs at the end will push the lead a bit
UW-SP over St. Thomas...only bc UPS has a history with UW-SP and I would love to see them square off again
Wheaton over UW-P...Raymond is good  WW can tell you how he plays in the tournament
Finally, Wash U over UW-WW...its a coin flip, just went with the defending champs.  Game can go either way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 07, 2009, 04:47:51 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 07, 2009, 05:14:00 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 01:25:14 AM
Gonna be a great game.  Key matchup is Nakamura and Williams.  Key stat is WW layups on press break.  WW actually did poorly here in last weeks loss.  Key stat is Foster blocks and Krauel flops.  They are both awesome at these two skills.  Haven't heard about Gebbers status but he sat Thu.  I am amazed at WW's ability to overcome sub par games from Riley and Sellereit the past 2 or 3 games.   Montgomery pulls 15+ boards...WW wins.  Williams has 7 or less points...WW wins.
Halftime score WW 50 UPS 40.   Final  WW 94-85.

Robert a flopper?  Really? 
It's not a criticism.  I really like his game.  He is excellent at drawing fouls and getting opponents off balance...then he falls down Oscar style. 

Stats prediction for tonight:

The NWC keeps and list's 19 team statistics on its site.  The team that ranks first in a category gets 9 points, 2nd 8, 3rd 7...etc.

WW  143 points
UPS  138 points

WW top of category in 8, UPS 7

Who is the better team? Statistically? WHITWORTH

How bout the overall record stat?  Only one that matters to me.  At least until the result of tonight's game mind you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2009, 04:38:58 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
So, back to basketball -- name your picks:

#21 Whitworth @ #7 Puget Sound (UPS)  -- Whitworth by a close one
#4 UWSP @ #1 UST  -- Tommies prevail
#5 UW-P-ville @ #3 Wheaton  --- Wheaton
#8 UW-Whitewater @ #2 ranked Washington  at Elmhurst-- this one's tough -- Washington U

So, what do the rest of you think?  This is our beloved Bracket of Death -- should have some fun with it.


I dont' see the WIAC going 0-3 tonight.  I think they get one for sure.

BTW, the Platteville game is @ Wheaton and the Whitewater game is @ Elmhurst.

Whoops, sorry I just copied that from another board & didn't check it.  Laziness will get you that!!  So, you don't see the WIAC going 0-3, but I didn't notice that you have an opinion?   If you want to disagree, you have to join the conversation.

And, Logs, I think UPS could win if they take advantage of Whitworth's TO's, hit their FTs and shoot better.  I sort of thought the UWSP/UST game was a coin flip as well.

UPS4Life, playoffs are a new season.  It's what can you do for me now!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 04:54:38 PM
I will pick WW to win tonight as I have said previous.  

I would love to see Wheaton go down...eliminating the top All Americans gives every team a chance to win a game.  Special players like KR can make you lose when you do everything right.

Whitewater wins..no repeat champ in Wash.

St Thomas rolls.

UPS4Life, season records are good for polls...polls give us Presidents...polls give us brackets of death.  Now is 1 game season time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:58:59 PM
[quote author=nwhoops1903 link=topic=721.msg1047104#msg1047104 date=123646287

UPS4Life, season records are good for polls...polls give us Presidents...polls give us brackets of death.  Now is 1 game season time.
[/quote]

Well said!

Darn, I messed up the quote thing again!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 07, 2009, 05:26:12 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2009, 04:38:58 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
So, back to basketball -- name your picks:

#21 Whitworth @ #7 Puget Sound (UPS)  -- Whitworth by a close one
#4 UWSP @ #1 UST  -- Tommies prevail
#5 UW-P-ville @ #3 Wheaton  --- Wheaton
#8 UW-Whitewater @ #2 ranked Washington  at Elmhurst-- this one's tough -- Washington U

So, what do the rest of you think?  This is our beloved Bracket of Death -- should have some fun with it.


I dont' see the WIAC going 0-3 tonight.  I think they get one for sure.

BTW, the Platteville game is @ Wheaton and the Whitewater game is @ Elmhurst.

Whoops, sorry I just copied that from another board & didn't check it.  Laziness will get you that!!  So, you don't see the WIAC going 0-3, but I didn't notice that you have an opinion?   If you want to disagree, you have to join the conversation.

Sorry. I wasn't aware you owned this board and got to set the rules of how and when everyone gets to post. "I think they get one for sure" is most certainly an opinion, but if you want more...

I think Point over St. Thomas is the most likely win for the WIAC.  I think UWW and Wash U. is a toss up.  Wheaton probably gets by Platteville, and I haven't a clue who wins the UPS/Whitworth game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2009, 07:19:36 PM
WHITWORTH!!!                          WHITWORTH!WHITWORTH!                           WHITWORTH!!!
   WHITWORTH!!!                    WHITWORTH!!!WHITWORTH!!!                      WHITWORTH!!!
   WHITWORTH!!!                    WHITWORTH!!!WHITWORTH!!!                      WHITWORTH!!!
      WHITWORTH!!!            WHITWORTH!!!          WHITWORTH!!!            WHITWORTH!!!
      WHITWORTH!!!            WHITWORTH!!!          WHITWORTH!!!            WHITWORTH!!!
         WHITWORTH!!!      WHITWORTH!!!                WHITWORTH!!!      WHITWORTH!!!
         WHITWORTH!!!      WHITWORTH!!!                WHITWORTH!!!      WHITWORTH!!!
            WHITWORTH!!!WHITWORTH!!!                      WHITWORTH!!!WHITWORTH!!!
            WHITWORTH!!!WHITWORTH!!!                      WHITWORTH!!!WHITWORTH!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 07, 2009, 07:49:33 PM
What's that you said? WHITMAN?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 08:32:40 PM
C'mon JustBill -- "they get one for sure" isn't an opinion -- and you were telling me that I'm wrong.  That's fine, but you have to have something more than "you're wrong" and I guess maybe someone from the WIAC will win.

If you don't give a rip about the UPS/Whitworth game, what are you doing on the NWC board?

Pretty cool graphic nwhoops -- how long did that take you to create?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on March 07, 2009, 09:41:11 PM
So, NWHoops, who are you pulling for tonight?

Is there a live feed for tonights' game.  The one on Thu from WW was outstanding!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 08, 2009, 12:08:58 AM
Congrats to the Loggers -- represent the NWC well.  UW-SP sure gave the Tommies a handful tonight, so you can beat them.  Have fun in Minnesota, Logs! ;D  Hope UPS can win all the way!  (See, I'm not a hater!)

It really sucks to be right in all the pick-ems except the one I cared about.  (WIAC really did go 0-3.) Whitworth had a great season, but they needed Jurich healthy tonight.  Also, what was with the # of free throws for UPS vs. Whitworth?   I didn't see the game, but I can't imagine that there was that big of difference in the fouls.  They're both very physical teams, but usually UPS is more physical.

Congrats to the Pirates & coaches on a well played season.

So, now our Quadrant contains #1, #2, #3, and #7, who recently was #3?  Have fun in the finals --hmmm....I mean Sectionals.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on March 08, 2009, 12:20:40 AM
Wow, nice game all around.  Whitworth played tough, as usual. 

On the foul discrepancy, look at Foster--he took 16 foul shots.  With Jurich mostly out, Foster and Boyce (who was terrific and might have gone for 30 if not for the foul trouble) just attacked the front line, in Boyce's case a smaller player and in Foster's case typically Montgomery, a sweet player but not quick enough to guard Jason. 

For all that fine offensive play, I thought the most important player on the floor for UPS at times was #11, who was everywhere defensively. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 08, 2009, 03:16:50 AM
Quote from: Whitworth Dad on March 07, 2009, 12:25:43 AM
I am dad of one of Whitworth's players and I enjoy following this blog.  You guys are great.  I just wanted to comment on Tglassman51's post about the differences in SAT scores between the schools.  I am a prof at Stanford so there is lot's of talk about SAT scores here and what they mean and there are three things to note about the score differences between WW and UPS:
1. It takes about a 100 point difference in scores to predict a difference in how two students will perform.
2.  There probably is not a statistical difference, and absolutely no difference in predicting academic performance between the two groups of students based on the differences between those SAT scores.
3.  Whitworth is a more touchy/feely kind of place than UPS.  They like to say they look at the whole person.  In some ways you could see this in my UW medical school class.  The UPS person (note singular person who got in from UPS that year) was always attending the business of medicine type extra lectures while us Whitworth types (note plural--more than 1 in the class) were mainstays in the international medicine and inner city clinic groups.

Finally, when I was in medical school at the UW I did not notice any difference in the intelligence level between my fellow students from the different NWC schools.  However, I was amazed at the how much pharmacology the Whitman students knew before we even started classes.  

First, why do you think it takes a hundred point swing instead of a 90 point swing like the difference between UPS and WW?   
There probably is not a statistical difference?  I could speculate about it also, but instead I just used the plain facts, people can read into how they will.  If SAT scores weren't important in telling how good a student would be in the future, than schools (like Stanford) wouldn't care about them at all.   
How can you possibly make a blanket statement about WW's touchy feeliness as compared to UPS!? 

I realize that you are in a biased position being a father of someone at Whitworth (and way to "drop in" Stanford and UW by the way) but it seems that you are REALLY going out on limb here with your opinions. 

As I said earlier, average freshman SAT scores for UPS are about 90 points on average higher than Whitworth's.  This means that some (obviously not all) the students who currently attend Whitworth would not have gotten into UPS.  Whitworth DOES however have a higher incoming freshman GPA (3.63 to 3.54) and the ACT scores are about even. 

The reason we chanted it was because we believed it would get into the players heads (and apparently fans and parents of fans?) and interestingly, out of all the things we said, this one stuck. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2009, 03:19:04 AM
I just wrote this huge post about tonight and this season...then accidentally clicked a bad link and came back and it was gone...Oh well.

Talk to you next year and I will be pulling for UPS next week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 08, 2009, 03:29:02 AM
great game tonight!  It was awesome to see so many Whitworth fans make the trip.  It really made the environment great!  You guys had a great season and were definitely screwed in the rankings this season.  I have to say that it's tough as a NWC basketball fan that it's hard to see a class-act like Ross Nakamura graduate.

Good Game Whitworth, sure sets up some fun for next year's league games.   Off to the sweet 16!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2009, 04:39:50 AM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 08, 2009, 03:29:02 AM
great game tonight!  It was awesome to see so many Whitworth fans make the trip.  It really made the environment great!  You guys had a great season and were definitely screwed in the rankings this season.  I have to say that it's tough as a NWC basketball fan that it's hard to see a class-act like Ross Nakamura graduate.

Good Game Whitworth, sure sets up some fun for next year's league games.   Off to the sweet 16!
This was not a great game tonight.  It was a very frustrating game.  Decided by Foster, Free Throws and injuries.  Jurich attemping to go with a torn MCL from Thu was just gritty and gutsy.  You're an all time Buc Cal.  Full strength and one ref not making #$%& up and calling it 13 to 2 UPS would have been a better way to lose to a great player like Foster.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 08, 2009, 06:29:37 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2009, 04:39:50 AM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 08, 2009, 03:29:02 AM
great game tonight!  It was awesome to see so many Whitworth fans make the trip.  It really made the environment great!  You guys had a great season and were definitely screwed in the rankings this season.  I have to say that it's tough as a NWC basketball fan that it's hard to see a class-act like Ross Nakamura graduate.

Good Game Whitworth, sure sets up some fun for next year's league games.   Off to the sweet 16!
This was not a great game tonight.  It was a very frustrating game.  Decided by Foster, Free Throws and injuries.  Jurich attemping to go with a torn MCL from Thu was just gritty and gutsy.  You're an all time Buc Cal.  Full strength and one ref not making #$%& up and calling it 13 to 2 UPS would have been a better way to lose to a great player like Foster.  

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but there's a reason why Jason Foster was the NWC Player of the Year, he showed it tonight.  The word abused comes to mind when I think about what he did to WW tonight.  I realize Jurich was injured, but it doesn't change the fact that every WW fan on here has been tooting Montgomery's horn lately and he got dominated tonight.  The only reason this didn't happen last week was because Jason was in foul trouble.

UPS played a great game, I loved that they took few three point shots, great adjustment by Lunt, they aren't necessary, scoring is what's necessary.  Nakamura was way off most of the game till the last quarter when it was too late, Austin Boyce played great at key moments, and the crowd was INCREDIBLE.  Best crowd I've ever seen in my life.

Whoever mentioned #11, awesome recognition, Colin Koach played a great game, I felt that his diving save out of bounds sparked UPS to the double digit lead, I was standing by and cheering with his father all night and couldn't have enjoyed the game more with anyone else.  If the Loggers can get past St. Thomas, as they say, "Like Kevin Garnett, anything is possible."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 08, 2009, 10:23:03 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 08:32:40 PM

If you don't give a rip about the UPS/Whitworth game, what are you doing on the NWC board?


Wow. Your reading comprehension skills are horrible.  I said I didn't know.  I didn't say I didn't care.  I was on the board to learn more about the matchup.  Why don't you spend a little less time playing "message board cop."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2009, 12:22:42 PM
Rumor around the campfire is that you might be headed to Illinois, not Minnesota.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 08, 2009, 02:49:25 PM
Great great great game by the Loggers last night!  They looked really tough...Foster and Boyce had huge games, Kraul played well too (except for a few trips to the FT line).  WW hung tough...Riley can really shoot it.

It will be interesting to see how we match up against the big mid-west teams!  Good work Logs!  8)  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 08, 2009, 02:52:17 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 08, 2009, 12:22:42 PM
Rumor around the campfire is that you might be headed to Illinois, not Minnesota.

I don't know where you get your info Old School...but your right.  Wheaton is hosting the sectional...wow.  St. Thomas can't catch a break...

So it's Wheaton & Wash U, St. Thomas & Puget Sound...sounds like a pretty good final four to me.  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 08, 2009, 03:00:01 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 08, 2009, 02:52:17 PM
So it's Wheaton & Wash U, St. Thomas & Puget Sound...sounds like a pretty good final four to me.  :D

agreed
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 08, 2009, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2009, 10:23:03 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 07, 2009, 08:32:40 PM

If you don't give a rip about the UPS/Whitworth game, what are you doing on the NWC board?


Wow. Your reading comprehension skills are horrible.  I said I didn't know.  I didn't say I didn't care.  I was on the board to learn more about the matchup.  Why don't you spend a little less time playing "message board cop."

Sure, as soon as you admit I was right about the WIAC going 0-3!  Take care, buddy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 08, 2009, 04:58:38 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 08, 2009, 02:52:17 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 08, 2009, 12:22:42 PM
Rumor around the campfire is that you might be headed to Illinois, not Minnesota.

I don't know where you get your info Old School...but your right.  Wheaton is hosting the sectional...wow.  St. Thomas can't catch a break...

So it's Wheaton & Wash U, St. Thomas & Puget Sound...sounds like a pretty good final four to me.  :D

No kidding.  Good luck to the Loggers.  At least the flight to Chicago is a decent connection.  And it's a fun place to visit.  Make us proud -- take it all the way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 08, 2009, 07:09:30 PM
You were right about the WIAC going 0-3.  You offered your opinion, asked for other opinions, I offered mine and then you got pissy when mine didn't match yours.  Moving on...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 08, 2009, 07:41:07 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2009, 07:09:30 PM
You were right about the WIAC going 0-3.  You offered your opinion, asked for other opinions, I offered mine and then you got pissy when mine didn't match yours.  Moving on...

No, actually I was just asking you to step up and HAVE an opinion.  All you wanted to do was disagree with mine.  Not sure where we went wrong, here, but have a nice life!!  Really, I wish you well. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 09, 2009, 12:58:28 AM
QuoteI was right about the WIAC going 0-3! 

I don't have to move on...yet. That was a great 'prediction.'
It made me go look at the match ups and I was surprised as everyone else.

Now I'll move on. Back to work Monday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 09, 2009, 01:33:09 AM
Just regaining my voice from last night's UPS WW matchup.  Great game in an environment which represents D3 basketball very well.  Congrats to WW on a great season.  I really believe the players and coaches got everything they had out of each other this season.

Account from the game:

I was WAY off wit the 3 point shooting.  What UPS lost in the 3 point shot they more than made up in FT's

WW had a bad run from about 12 mins to go in the 2nd half to about 7 mins to go.  Sitting right on the floor and I can safely say one ref. (small African American referee) missed 2 out of bounds calls badly which ended up going to UPS.  That ref was bad when I played and is still bad now.  He also made a few very questionable foul calls that went WW's way.  I just think he is bad all around.

Foster is truly the POTY and played like it.  WW had a tough time guarding him inside and the drive to the basket in general.  The refs didn't drive by the WW players, the UPS players did.

Congrats to UPS.  I hate to say it but you guys have a very good team this year.  Now get hot at Wheaton and get to the final 4.  Better shoot a little better than 2-14 from 3!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2009, 03:01:32 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 09, 2009, 12:58:28 AM
QuoteI was right about the WIAC going 0-3! 

I don't have to move on...yet. That was a great 'prediction.'
It made me go look at the match ups and I was surprised as everyone else.

Now I'll move on. Back to work Monday.

Yeah, too bad I was wrong about the Whitworth/UPS game!  Really sucks to be right when it doesn't matter.  :(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on March 09, 2009, 03:52:36 AM
What's the word on St. Thomas?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 09, 2009, 09:40:06 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on March 09, 2009, 03:52:36 AM
What's the word on St. Thomas?

Miniture version of the old Arkansas 40 Minutes of hell.  Press non-stop, average forcing 20+ turnovers a game.  Not tall inside, but very good at post defense.  If you can break the press you will have open looks, but if you miss your shots like UWSP did, you lose.

Offensively they have multiple guys who can hit shots.  They can go inside to thier 6'3 power forward but he plays more like 6'6 or 6;7.  Very strong, great footwork, big rebounder. 

It will be a good game.  UST hadn't really been challenged by a tough team this year until the Point game, and they responded well, so it should be a barn burner in Wheaton. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2009, 12:58:44 PM
I don't think that UPS has ever played a team that has pressed them back for 40 mins...somethings gotta give. lol.  This could be really interesting!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 09, 2009, 02:43:03 PM
QuoteI can safely say one ref

I believe refs have numbers? Some conferences do. Perhaps not all. Suggest that would be a better way to describe the stripe instead of the way you did.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 09, 2009, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 09, 2009, 02:43:03 PM
QuoteI can safely say one ref

I believe refs have numbers? Some conferences do. Perhaps not all. Suggest that would be a better way to describe the stripe instead of the way you did.

In all my years of playing and watching the NWC I have NEVER seen a ref with a number on his back....EVER.   In fact, I have never seen it on TV, in person or anywhere else.  Anyone ever see numbers on a ref?

There were 2 short refs and one tall ref.  Out of the 2 shorter refs, one was African-American and one was Caucasian.  I'm Sorry D.O.C., but if you can tell me of another way to easily distinguish between 2 refs who are relatively the same height and weight, have short dark hair, and are identically dressed,  let me know because I think you will hold the key to a fifth dimension!   

What would be a better way than to say he was African American?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 09, 2009, 04:04:56 PM
Image search "basketball refs with numbers" on Yahoo and you get "0" results

I think NBA and possibly overseas would be about it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 09, 2009, 06:41:21 PM
Sounds like St. Thomas and UPS are similar systems.  I would love to see this game, anyone know if there will be a broadcast of it online?  I don't know much about St. Thomas except that they aren't huge and play fast.  Don't know how this ones going to play out, but I like the match up better.  The teams that scare me the most are the ones that slow it down, have 6'9", 6'10" guys in the middle, shoot threes really well, and usually keep the score 40-50 points a game.  Doesn't sound like St. Thomas is that kind of team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 09, 2009, 07:05:16 PM
Wheaton will be broadcasting the game online on WETN, their online television station. 

http://wheaton.edu/wetn/

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 09, 2009, 07:05:49 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 09, 2009, 06:41:21 PM
Sounds like St. Thomas and UPS are similar systems.  I would love to see this game, anyone know if there will be a broadcast of it online?  I don't know much about St. Thomas except that they aren't huge and play fast.  Don't know how this ones going to play out, but I like the match up better.  The teams that scare me the most are the ones that slow it down, have 6'9", 6'10" guys in the middle, shoot threes really well, and usually keep the score 40-50 points a game.  Doesn't sound like St. Thomas is that kind of team.

Pat Coleman mentioned something on the MIAA board about the NCAA maybe doing a webcast...I think.  Not postive on how this will shape up, but Pat said that it will be linked to the D3hoops front page on friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 07:30:15 PM
Yes, it'll be there and we'll have the links for you. I'll be calling the games myself, so you'll get a (hopefully) knowledgeable, (definitely) unbiased call.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 09, 2009, 07:32:41 PM
On Wheaton TV's website it does say it will only broadcast the next round if Wheaton wins... so I don't know if there will be TV or radio of the next one if UPS wins. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 09, 2009, 09:53:23 PM
I think UPS has a chance to go deep in this thing, and I sure hope they do.

PFL, I am glad you emphasized that the refs didn't decide the game.  Refs NEVER decide a game, and any fan that says otherwise is only making excuses for his team's failure.  Even on a totally blown call at the end of a game, the real question would be why a team let a game come down to a single call...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 09, 2009, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 09, 2009, 09:53:23 PM
I think UPS has a chance to go deep in this thing, and I sure hope they do.

PFL, I am glad you emphasized that the refs didn't decide the game.  Refs NEVER decide a game, and any fan that says otherwise is only making excuses for his team's failure.  Even on a totally blown call at the end of a game, the real question would be why a team let a game come down to a single call...

Agreed on both accounts.  Hope UPS goes deep and refs (unless you are in the NBA) never decide the game.

Times like these are when I wish I was filthy rich.  I'd love to go see that pod in Wheaton.  What great basketball!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 10, 2009, 12:42:49 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 07:30:15 PM
Yes, it'll be there and we'll have the links for you. I'll be calling the games myself, so you'll get a (hopefully) knowledgeable, (definitely) unbiased call.

video or radio?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 10, 2009, 12:50:46 AM
I stand corrected. You did the best you could...I guess.

Quoteyou will hold the key to a fifth dimension

Some think I do.    8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2009, 01:13:26 AM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 09, 2009, 07:32:41 PM
On Wheaton TV's website it does say it will only broadcast the next round if Wheaton wins... so I don't know if there will be TV or radio of the next one if UPS wins. 

The NCAA.com broadcast is video. Doesn't matter what Wheaton does, we are definitely doing all three games.

(There will also be an audio-only stream for the bandwidth-challenged.)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 10, 2009, 02:32:46 AM
that is great news!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2009, 11:24:48 AM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 10, 2009, 02:32:46 AM
that is great news!

Things are pretty sweet from here in out!   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2009, 11:27:08 AM
I wonder what day the loggers are leaving?  Hopefully tomorrow so they can adjust and get a few practices in on the floor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 10, 2009, 02:12:43 PM
Every team gets the same amount of practice time on the floor: 90 minutes on Thursday and 60 minutes on Friday.  Wheaton can obviously practice as much as they want until Thursday, but once Thursday comes it becomes an NCAA venue and they get only their 90 minutes.

I'd imagine if UPS arrives early they'd find a practice site elsewhere.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 10, 2009, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 10, 2009, 02:12:43 PM
Every team gets the same amount of practice time on the floor: 90 minutes on Thursday and 60 minutes on Friday.  Wheaton can obviously practice as much as they want until Thursday, but once Thursday comes it becomes an NCAA venue and they get only their 90 minutes.

I'd imagine if UPS arrives early they'd find a practice site elsewhere.


Wheaton is a great place to play with a top notch gym and overall athletic facilities.

2 observations:

There are seats on the end line in the first row with about 40% court visibility.  If its packed, better get there early.

Secondly, I always found it amusing how the home announcer for Wheaton announced a Kent Raymond basket.  KENT RAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He seems to be the only Wheaton player to get the announcer EXTRA excited.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gacman on March 10, 2009, 04:26:16 PM
For those who are wondering about UST, I have played against them six times in the last two years and have also played UPS this year as well out in San Francisco.

St. Thomas, as someone mentioned before me, presses all 40 minutes, but I wouldn't say it's as frantic and scramble type of press that you run. They have the best on the ball defenders I have ever played against in D3 and this is what they use to cause problems. They let you catch it and then play 1 on 1 defense on the point with their 2 wing defenders hanging back around half court. Since very few people can get past the first defender, every team I've seen play against them gets to 6 or 7 seconds in the back court and then has to, in some ways, force the issue just to get it across half court before the 10 second violation. When a team does this, that's when the wing defenders come into play and usually one of them will jump and trap the ball handler at the 6 to 7 second mark which usually causes a difficult pass out of the oncoming double team. The way to beat their press is to attack it early because if you wait, which is tempting since they don't deny the pass or apply pressure right away, is where teams play into their hands.

Besides their press, they have two extremely dangerous shooters in Nicolai and Scott. Both players need little to no space to get off a 3 attempt which helps spread the floor.

To be continued.......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 10, 2009, 05:07:42 PM
Quote from: Gacman on March 10, 2009, 04:26:16 PM
For those who are wondering about UST, I have played against them six times in the last two years and have also played UPS this year as well out in San Francisco.

St. Thomas, as someone mentioned before me, presses all 40 minutes, but I wouldn't say it's as frantic and scramble type of press that you run. They have the best on the ball defenders I have ever played against in D3 and this is what they use to cause problems. They let you catch it and then play 1 on 1 defense on the point with their 2 wing defenders hanging back around half court. Since very few people can get past the first defender, every team I've seen play against them gets to 6 or 7 seconds in the back court and then has to, in some ways, force the issue just to get it across half court before the 10 second violation. When a team does this, that's when the wing defenders come into play and usually one of them will jump and trap the ball handler at the 6 to 7 second mark which usually causes a difficult pass out of the oncoming double team. The way to beat their press is to attack it early because if you wait, which is tempting since they don't deny the pass or apply pressure right away, is where teams play into their hands.

Besides their press, they have two extremely dangerous shooters in Nicolai and Scott. Both players need little to no space to get off a 3 attempt which helps spread the floor.

To be continued.......

Having seen/played against each in recent history, I would like to hear your prediction on te outcome of the UST/UPS matchup... 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gacman on March 10, 2009, 05:14:25 PM
With these two shooters on the floor, the offense they most often run is a 4 out 1 in with McCoy as the one in. When the ball goes into him, he almost never makes a move right away. The first thing that happens when he gets the ball are two to three UST players that will cut off of him. He passes the ball extremely well. If someone hasn't received a pass from him off a basket cut, he either passes it back out or then starts making an offensive move. Almost every move consists of a step-through or an up and under finishing to his right hand. UST's biggest strength might be its bench as they bring in Tuma off the bench who would start for any other miac team, Halvorsen who is a 6'8" wing and is extremely athletic. He is very similar to Foster. Also Ervin and Peltier provide some muscle. They do the little things. both are extremely strong allowing them to guard people bigger than them, but quick enough to defend almost any guard. Healy is a gunner who comes in and looks to get some shots up.

The other starters not mentioned earlier are Lonnie Robinson and B.J. Viau. Both are top notch defenders who play the game under control and smart. Lonnie is the best defender in the MIAC and it isn't even close. He doesn't shoot a lot but can hit the three if you leave him open. Viau is Mr. everything. He defends, rebounds, blocks shots, takes good shots, passes well. His range doesn't go out past 15 feet. He is a good leaper. Him and Kraul will be a good match up. We never broke 60 against them this year. A lot of teams didn't. To beat them, will take a very good shooting effort, because they shoot 53 percent as a team on the season because when they aren't getting layups off their press they are getting great shots in the half court do to their High Basketball IQ and patience.

Good luck to UPS. They will be a formidable opponent and it should be a good game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 10, 2009, 05:17:05 PM
I realize St. Thomas plays up tempo as well, but I am wondering if even they will be a bit rushed playing against a UPS team that has reached 100 points 4 times this season.  UST reached 100 once in a blowout of St. Mary's (Minn).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 10, 2009, 05:19:07 PM
Quote from: Gacman on March 10, 2009, 05:14:25 PM
With these two shooters on the floor, the offense they most often run is a 4 out 1 in with McCoy as the one in. When the ball goes into him, he almost never makes a move right away. The first thing that happens when he gets the ball are two to three UST players that will cut off of him. He passes the ball extremely well. If someone hasn't received a pass from him off a basket cut, he either passes it back out or then starts making an offensive move. Almost every move consists of a step-through or an up and under finishing to his right hand. UST's biggest strength might be its bench as they bring in Tuma off the bench who would start for any other miac team, Halvorsen who is a 6'8" wing and is extremely athletic. He is very similar to Foster. Also Ervin and Peltier provide some muscle. They do the little things. both are extremely strong allowing them to guard people bigger than them, but quick enough to defend almost any guard. Healy is a gunner who comes in and looks to get some shots up.

The other starters not mentioned earlier are Lonnie Robinson and B.J. Viau. Both are top notch defenders who play the game under control and smart. Lonnie is the best defender in the MIAC and it isn't even close. He doesn't shoot a lot but can hit the three if you leave him open. Viau is Mr. everything. He defends, rebounds, blocks shots, takes good shots, passes well. His range doesn't go out past 15 feet. He is a good leaper. Him and Kraul will be a good match up. We never broke 60 against them this year. A lot of teams didn't. To beat them, will take a very good shooting effort, because they shoot 53 percent as a team on the season because when they aren't getting layups off their press they are getting great shots in the half court do to their High Basketball IQ and patience.

Good luck to UPS. They will be a formidable opponent and it should be a good game.

Thanks for the recap.. Great info!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gacman on March 10, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Predicting the outcome is tough because I know how hot UPS can get, and how fast they can score points. On the flip side I think UST plays smarter than any other team I have faced.  I think UST will win 83-76 in a close game. I could go either way, but UST wins in a close and exciting game.

As for being rushed. I think UST will handle the pace just fine. They have the athletes and the discipline to be successful against a team like this. I think UST would prefer to play fast as to a grind it out game like their last win against UWSP. Playing faster gets more open shots for their deadly shooters. I also think that UST's half court defense is too good to allow a game to get that high scoring. Remember UST is giving up only 58 points a game on the season and have beaten 2 D2 teams in concordia-st. paul this year, and they beat D2 national champion Winona St. last year. It was Winona's only loss en route to their second national championship in three years. And UST did it with the exact same players they have this year since they didn't graduate anyone from the top 10 in their rotation.

I have a feeling that both presses will be rendered useless since both teams have oustanding guards. The game will be won in the half court. The question will be who can defend better in the half court.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Nites on March 10, 2009, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 10, 2009, 05:17:05 PM
I realize St. Thomas plays up tempo as well, but I am wondering if even they will be a bit rushed playing against a UPS team that has reached 100 points 4 times this season.  UST reached 100 once in a blowout of St. Mary's (Minn).

And to add to Gacman's great analyis:  Although most feel that the Tommies had not really been tested this year until their win Saturday over WSP, it's probably worth remembering that they returned their top 11 scorers from last year's 23-5 team that suffered a 72-70 defeat to Buena Vista in the opening round of the tourney. 

For those that follow D-II basketball, you undoubtedly are familiar with Winona State, the D-II national champion in 2006 and 2008 and the runner up in 2007.  Winona State had two losses in those 3 years, the first in the national championship game in 2007 and the other, a loss at home to UST.

From what I've been reading, however, it seems that few teams are better at running up and down the court than UPS so they likely will be better off if they can slow the tempo down.  Their passing game in the half court that Gacman alluded to is a pleasure to watch.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Nites on March 10, 2009, 05:35:11 PM
Okay, so Gac was thinking the same thing as I was and he beat me to the Post button. . . . :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2009, 06:03:50 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 10, 2009, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 10, 2009, 02:12:43 PM
Every team gets the same amount of practice time on the floor: 90 minutes on Thursday and 60 minutes on Friday.  Wheaton can obviously practice as much as they want until Thursday, but once Thursday comes it becomes an NCAA venue and they get only their 90 minutes.

I'd imagine if UPS arrives early they'd find a practice site elsewhere.


Wheaton is a great place to play with a top notch gym and overall athletic facilities.

2 observations:

There are seats on the end line in the first row with about 40% court visibility.  If its packed, better get there early.

Secondly, I always found it amusing how the home announcer for Wheaton announced a Kent Raymond basket.  KENT RAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He seems to be the only Wheaton player to get the announcer EXTRA excited.

Does the mention of Raymond bring back personal nightmares P4L? lol.  ;D
Nobody on your squad could stop him that night...probably nobody anywhere could have.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2009, 06:12:42 PM
Gac and Nites thanks for all the input!  Really appreciate it.  Sound like these teams are pretty similar.  I worry a little bit about the UPS offense in the half court...does UST zone at all?

From the way that you guys described UST pressure, I don't think that UPS will have too much trouble with that aspect.  Williams is one of the quickest players I have ever seen.  If they can slow him down I will be really impressed.  If their defenders are going to try to stay in front of him one-on-one, they will spend most of the game chasing him from behind.  Also, most players on UPS are very comfortable handling the ball, since they practice against the press all year.

As far as UPS defense goes...they have a tendency to give up some easier shots.  But they have been doing better at getting back and taking away lay-ups.  That being said, their half court d has looked very strong this year.  For UST to have success they need to take advantage of their fastbreaks.

This is a very interesting match-up and I can't wait for the game on Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 10, 2009, 07:36:42 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2009, 06:03:50 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 10, 2009, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 10, 2009, 02:12:43 PM
Every team gets the same amount of practice time on the floor: 90 minutes on Thursday and 60 minutes on Friday.  Wheaton can obviously practice as much as they want until Thursday, but once Thursday comes it becomes an NCAA venue and they get only their 90 minutes.

I'd imagine if UPS arrives early they'd find a practice site elsewhere.


Wheaton is a great place to play with a top notch gym and overall athletic facilities.

2 observations:

There are seats on the end line in the first row with about 40% court visibility.  If its packed, better get there early.

Secondly, I always found it amusing how the home announcer for Wheaton announced a Kent Raymond basket.  KENT RAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He seems to be the only Wheaton player to get the announcer EXTRA excited.

Does the mention of Raymond bring back personal nightmares P4L? lol.  ;D
Nobody on your squad could stop him that night...probably nobody anywhere could have.

Actually I don't mind the guy.  I only faced him once and beat him.  Very good player, I think he still had 25 or so on us.

It is going to be very interesting watching the rebound line for the UPS/UST game.  With as many shots going up as we think I would wager that the team more dedicated to securing defensive rebounds would have an advantage.  If both teams hit the offensive boards hard we could have a 100-100 game as that will result in a bunch of fast break situations and 3 on 2's the other way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 10, 2009, 11:56:58 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 10, 2009, 12:42:49 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 07:30:15 PM
Yes, it'll be there and we'll have the links for you. I'll be calling the games myself, so you'll get a (hopefully) knowledgeable, (definitely) unbiased call.

video or radio?

For those that are interested...the front page has a story on the internet video broadcast for the Logger's sectional.

I am pumped to actually have video!  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 11, 2009, 12:40:46 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 10, 2009, 11:56:58 PM

I am pumped to actually have video!  8)

I spoke with our athletic department multiple times about broadcasting video for all the homegames on the website that most of the teams in the conference use ustream.com.  I explained how easy it was and found volunteers to point the camera.  Chris Thompson informed me that "we don't have the technology in the fieldhouse."  I told him that they obviously do because 1) they broadcast the "radio" broadcasts on Ustream which only requires an internet connection and 2) They broadcast video for the Willamette game using the laptop that they were carrying around.  Our library said have cameras with all the cords they would need for use for FREE. 

It is so frusterating to see Whitworth, Willamette, and especially Whitman (they have a clock and scoreboard!) among others with professional looking broadcasts that people outside of the general area or someone that needs to be somewhere else but has an internet connection. 

We have the worst athletic department in the conference FAR AND AWAY.  Unless there are some big problems at other schools I don't know about. 

It's GREAT to see video, now let's see some recognition for 1,000 point scorers and record setters, some signs letting people know when games are, some positive interactions between our Athletic MisDirector Amy Hackett and the student body that supports the sports she doesn't care about. 

d3 is only small time when your leadership believes it is.  ...sorry about the rant...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2009, 12:04:27 PM
I hear ya.  That isn't the first complaint I have heard about the Athletic Department...Guess she just comes from a different school of thought.

That's really too bad they have the tech to broadcast games but don't...kind of hard to understand.  I know lots of alumni and other would definately checkout/watch the games.  Not to mention the parents of the kids on the team from california and other places that aren't able to always make the trip up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2009, 04:56:47 PM
Any readers here who are even thinking they might want to attend the Final Four should enter the City of Salem's contest: Free lodging, free tickets, admission to team banquet and VIP passes:

http://www.d3hoops.com/salemgiveaway/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 11, 2009, 06:52:34 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2009, 04:56:47 PM
Any readers here who are even thinking they might want to attend the Final Four should enter the City of Salem's contest: Free lodging, free tickets, admission to team banquet and VIP passes:

http://www.d3hoops.com/salemgiveaway/

Thanks Pat!

Guess it's worth a shot
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 12, 2009, 01:46:07 AM
A couple of UPS Stats from the big 3:


already had midterms...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Almost time to rev the bracket of death back up!

Let's go Loggers!   :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 12, 2009, 10:16:48 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on March 12, 2009, 01:46:07 AM
A couple of UPS Stats from the big 3:


  • Antwan Williams this season not only breaks the career Assists record of 426 (which was actually 48 ahead of the next highest player) with 497 assists and counting, but is currently only 66 points from hitting the 1500 point mark.  For some reason UPS doesn't have the career leaderboard for steals but he is sitting at a rediculous 297 for his career
  • Robert Kraul is 15 away from 1300 points and 20 rebounds away from 550 for his career.  The truly impressive stat is the .586 FG % he has going right now. 
  • Jason Foster just passed the 1603 point mark for his career, making him 18 points shy of being 3rd in school history.  He is also 8 rebounds away from 600.  This puts him in the company of only Curt Peterson in UPS history at having both 1600 points and 600 rebounds in a career.  He is also only the second player in UPS history to earn NWC player of the year honors

already had midterms...



3 very impressive players that have had great individual careers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on March 13, 2009, 01:05:08 AM
This might be a little too Logger-oriented for the board, but I'll go for it...would this year's team match up well against the best Bridge-era team? I'm inclined to say no, since the  best Bridgeland teams always had two killer 3 point shooters on the floor (god, remember Medved?) and at least with McV. and Shelton they were a bit heftier up front.  But the current version of the Logs has some offsetting strengths, and it's an interesting comparison.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mugsy on March 13, 2009, 09:42:18 AM
This was posted over on the CCIW board.  Nice homemade promo for the weekend.  Should be an outstanding weekend of basketball.

QuoteI just picked up another link from the Facebook group for the Wheaton team.  Let's get ready for some big time basketball games!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVpibLR667I
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 11:19:22 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on March 13, 2009, 01:05:08 AM
This might be a little too Logger-oriented for the board, but I'll go for it...would this year's team match up well against the best Bridge-era team? I'm inclined to say no, since the  best Bridgeland teams always had two killer 3 point shooters on the floor (god, remember Medved?) and at least with McV. and Shelton they were a bit heftier up front.  But the current version of the Logs has some offsetting strengths, and it's an interesting comparison.

Very good players you mentioned, Chase Curtiss and Mcvey were amazing and with Antwaan and Jason as freshman starters took UPS to the Elite 8 four years ago, but I think UPS's best team might have been the one that featured the other NWC Player of the Year and an All-American for UPS, Matt Glynn.  This was the team that started it all for UPS these last 6 years or so.  Either of these teams were bigger than the current one and I think better shooting teams.  However, there are some intangibles here, also a lot of experience.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on March 13, 2009, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 11:19:22 AM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on March 13, 2009, 01:05:08 AM
This might be a little too Logger-oriented for the board, but I'll go for it...would this year's team match up well against the best Bridge-era team? I'm inclined to say no, since the  best Bridgeland teams always had two killer 3 point shooters on the floor (god, remember Medved?) and at least with McV. and Shelton they were a bit heftier up front.  But the current version of the Logs has some offsetting strengths, and it's an interesting comparison.

Very good players you mentioned, Chase Curtiss and Mcvey were amazing and with Antwaan and Jason as freshman starters took UPS to the Elite 8 four years ago, but I think UPS's best team might have been the one that featured the other NWC Player of the Year and an All-American for UPS, Matt Glynn.  This was the team that started it all for UPS these last 6 years or so.  Either of these teams were bigger than the current one and I think better shooting teams.  However, there are some intangibles here, also a lot of experience.

As long as we're doing hypotheticals, can you imagine how good that Elite 8 team would have been if Jeremy Cross and Josh Akwenuke had stayed at UPS and been senior leaders instead of moving on to WSU and Oregon, respectively?

Adding my 2 cents to the topic, I think the 2005 team that lost to UWSP is SP was the best of the teams and would have gone much farther if they hadn't played Kaslow and Co. again. They had size, experience, motivation, depth and three guys (Curtiss, Cross and Shelton) who were perfect final shot options. The 2004 team was too inexperienced and reliant on Glynn for scoring. The Elite 8 team was smaller and less deep than 2005, and this year's team is smaller and doesn't seem to have the same depth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 03:04:04 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on March 13, 2009, 01:05:08 AM
This might be a little too Logger-oriented for the board, but I'll go for it...would this year's team match up well against the best Bridge-era team? I'm inclined to say no, since the  best Bridgeland teams always had two killer 3 point shooters on the floor (god, remember Medved?) and at least with McV. and Shelton they were a bit heftier up front.  But the current version of the Logs has some offsetting strengths, and it's an interesting comparison.

I am always game for a discussion about this!  :)

I will have to agree with ds, he brought up some good points.  I would have to say that the 2005 team was definately the best.  The deepest and the most talented, they played Seattle U (losing at the buzzer) and SPU very tough.  Then the 2004 team and then the 2006 team.  It woudl have been really interesting to see how far the Logs could have made it in 2004 and 05 if UW-SP was on the other side of the bracket.  They probably could have made the final 4 both years.  UW-SP was just an absolute juggernaut.  If they had played 10 games, I think UPS could have only got them 3 times.  The 2006 team went the farthest, but wasn't as good as 04 or 05.  They were basically lead by a group of 3 tough and talented seniors, with really good freshmen...but they were just that freshmen.  Now if the Jr. class of Cross, Akwenuke, and Medved had stayed around then its a completely different story.  That team would have been just scarey.

If the current team were to matchup against the those great UPS teams of the past, they could probably give the 06 team a pretty good game, but don't think they would be able to beat them.  And I don't think that they would be able to touch the 04 and 05 teams.  Those teams had too much firepower.  Everyone on those teams could shoot the 3, and their guards up top could really get to the rack and create opportunities...not to mention McVey was just a monster down low.  Probably the most athletically gifted D3 players I have every seen.

Don't get me wrong though, I think this year's team to really good too!  Who knows, they might get to the final 4!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 03:09:19 PM
Getting closer to gametime!   ;D  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 13, 2009, 05:01:52 PM
After having watched the the last 4 years of teams (Foster, Antwan, Kraul and I are all seniors) I think it's extremely hard to compare the old UPS teams with this team. 

I believe that the diffence is with Coach Lunt.  While I mourned the loss of Bridgeland as much as any (I was a sports writer for "The Trail" at the time and had spoken with him several times) I felt we could have done a much better job searching for a coach and chalked it up to another Amy Hackett mistake (he is a Lute for god's sake!).  While I am certainly doubtful that next years team will be close to this years team in terms of wins and losses, I have seen Lunt learn extremely quickly on the job.  He has a done a fantastic job adopting a half court defense which has slowed other teams much more than some of the bridgeland team's of old and is getting much better at timing on his time outs and shift changes (hockey reference to UPS' 3,4,or 5 person subs).  On an unrelated note, Lunt has not done the job recruiting the Bridgeland did, not even close. 

The old Logger teams were much different defensively, much more frantic than either the player or who wrote a couple days ago on here or the TNT this morning gave us credit for.  Many claimed that the Loggers used to win by trickery and gadgetry with a crazy defensive scheme creating 30 TO's a game and the team not actually being the good a "traditional basketball."  I, unlike many Logger fans, feel that is at least partially true. 

While the teams of old certainly had prolific scorers, none of them had the depth in the starting five that this teams has.  The bench is thinner than any UPS fan is used to but has outperformed it's expectations and left us certainly sweating for tonight's game.  The old teams did not have the staying power that this team has.  Those teams may have been better from 1-9 in the rotation, but they all had uncharacteristic losses to bad teams when our inflated three point shooting failed or they had any sort of a presence inside. 

using the old "they play 10 times" analogy I think this team wins 7-10 on consistency over the Curtiss, Medved, Rogers, years. 

2 more hours!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 13, 2009, 05:16:37 PM
Also, now that the regular season is over, how would you guys make your "fantasy line ups" for the NWC.   Not the players of the year statistically or otherwise, I mean who would you want going into a game. 

here's mine

PG - Ross Nakamura  (TO/A ratio is rediculous)
SG - Antwan Williams (best defender in the conference against other gaurds)
SF - Garold Howe (averaged a double-double, scary to think of what he would do with a team around him)
PF - Jason Foster (POY, right attitude)
C - Nate Montgomery (giant human being)

tough to leave off anyone from LC and Cam Mitchell but oh well
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 05:35:50 PM
Can't agree with you on this one Tom.  I'm a senior as well this year, lived on the same floor as Foster and Williams freshman year, have followed theirs and Robert's stellar careers very closely, and have been a UPS basketball fan since I can remember.  My heroes used to be guys like Mike "It's Miller Time!" Miller" and I remember crying at Logger losses, when we were the door mat of men's basketball.

This year's team is one of the best all time, going undefeated was incredible, but  Matt Glynn's '04 team and the '05 and '06 teams featuring Chase, McVey, Cross, and Medved were hands down better teams.  Does this mean this years team hasn't or won't go farther and accomplish more?  Not at all, but I don't think anyone should disagree that those three years showcased the best mens basketball teams UPS has ever put forth.  These are benches that included guys like Mario Mendoza, Vinny, Aubrey Shelton.  Talking about just the players themselves right here, they would top this current team fairly easily in my opinion.  Coaching/defense/system, that's another argument though...

Can't wait for the game, less than two hours to tip!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 06:31:40 PM
I am with you UPS4Life, though cross and medved didnt play at UPS in 06.

Glassman, what were some of their uncharacteristic losses, I don't remember too many of those.

I think the 05 team's starting line up of Cross, Curtiss, Walker, O'Donnell, and McVey was better all-around and more solid then this year's starting 5.  And then bring Shelton, and Marsh off the bench...that's a pretty tough to beat.

I wouldn't call the UPS defense gimmicky, but there were definately a lot of lay-ups given up.  With their offensive firepower, if UPS had emphasized the same defense they play now, then they would have been crazy good.  These guy averaged over 100 points a game.

I personally think Lunt has done a great job, and his maturity as a basketball coach is very noticeable.  I think he is a great fit for UPS.  He seems to get the short end when talking about recruiting...he got Heyman this year and some other talent.  Also people forget Antwan Willams was Lunt's recruit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 13, 2009, 06:48:21 PM
radio broadcast has begun!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:08:38 PM
Can anyone get the video to work...I'm having problems
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 06:31:40 PM
I am with you UPS4Life, though cross and medved didnt play at UPS in 06.


True, true.  They would have been stars.  Medved made a comeback though for a semester, wasn't the same player unfortunately.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 06:31:40 PM
I am with you UPS4Life, though cross and medved didnt play at UPS in 06.


True, true.  They would have been stars.  Medved made a comeback though for a semester, wasn't the same player unfortunately.

Yeah, knee injury and time off...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:27:37 PM
Finally got the video to work!  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:27:46 PM
Gotta love how shocked the announcers are at our style of play.  ::west coast sigh::
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:29:07 PM
They only get to see it once a year   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:34:26 PM
for anyone watching the video...what's the deal with the guy with the predator hair and huge bread for STU?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:39:49 PM
Williams just picked up his 3rd foul in the first half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:40:29 PM
Loggers looked like they were going to go away quietly in the first 8 minutes.  Getting to the free throw line a lot right now, love it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:41:57 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:40:29 PM
Loggers looked like they were going to go away quietly in the first 8 minutes.  Getting to the free throw line a lot right now, love it.

We have been playing solid for the 2nd part of the half...need to guard the 3 point line better
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:41:57 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:40:29 PM
Loggers looked like they were going to go away quietly in the first 8 minutes.  Getting to the free throw line a lot right now, love it.

We have been playing solid for the 2nd part of the half...need to guard the 3 point line better
to true
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:43:41 PM
UST just hit another...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:44:48 PM
We are missing Williams right now...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:46:10 PM
They do look to be getting tired though, as the announcers pointed out, and if the fouls keep adding up...  Also, I'm wondering who we're cheering for in the other game if we win this one?  Who would we rather face Wash. U or Wheaton at home?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:48:49 PM
Down 8 at half...this might the first time we are losing at half all season
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:46:10 PM
They do look to be getting tired though, as the announcers pointed out, and if the fouls keep adding up...  Also, I'm wondering who we're cheering for in the other game if we win this one?  Who would we rather face Wash. U or Wheaton at home?

lol. yeah, either team will be tough!  I think I might rather play wash u. Because it will be a neutral court and Raymond won't be shooting the ball
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 07:56:09 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 07:48:49 PM
Down 8 at half...this might the first time we are losing at half all season

Down by this much probably, we were down by 3 to Whitman at home I'm pretty sure.  I think we make pretty good half-time adjustments usually so I'm not too worried.  As long as we keep doing what we're doing and play better defense around the arc.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:03:17 PM
2nd half just about to start
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:04:35 PM
ahhhh...no more 3's!  Come on guys!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:10:18 PM
Pretty tough start to the 2nd half for the Logs...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 08:16:16 PM
Gotta keep racking up those fouls, they're getting it going again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:17:24 PM
Where is the defense  ???   UST is scoring at will.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:17:24 PM
Where is the defense  ???   UST is scoring at will.

Hasn't improved...we might be in trouble
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 08:26:30 PM
Yeah, in the penalty for us, not good.  Slowing it down a lot, St. Thomas getting to rest.  Bottom line, have to play better defense right now or else its over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 08:26:30 PM
Yeah, in the penalty for us, not good.  Slowing it down a lot, St. Thomas getting to rest.  Bottom line, have to play better defense right now or else its over.

Yep. And need to put some points on the board.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 08:28:27 PM
Is it just me or have we been shooting 3s very poorly the last three or so games?  Definitely tonight :(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 08:28:27 PM
Is it just me or have we been shooting 3s very poorly the last three or so games?  Definitely tonight :(

Yeah, I feel like we have lost some mojo
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:34:44 PM
Getting killed on the boards...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 08:34:59 PM
No kidding.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:45:46 PM
Too bad...UPS didn't have their best game tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 13, 2009, 08:46:09 PM
Not much else to say...

Great season Loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS4Life on March 13, 2009, 08:48:37 PM
Nothing to complain about except not good defense or rebounding from UPS and the big one, the awful bracket from the NCAA.  Congrats Loggers on reaching the Final Four imo!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PurpleReign on March 13, 2009, 09:19:43 PM
Hey guys thanks for the updates this evening - didn't have audio or video - just my Blackberry. No question. That these 4 teams r final 4 caliber. Congrats on a great season and game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TommieFan2012 on March 14, 2009, 12:55:21 AM
Great season to UPS.  No doubt that you guys had a legit team, and should have made it to the elite 8 at least.  It's a shame how insane our bracket was. UWSP and UPS both deserve to still be in the tourny.  And now tomorrow, our #1 UST takes on #2 UW a matchup that shouldnt happen until next weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 14, 2009, 01:27:47 AM
Quote from: TommieFan2012 on March 14, 2009, 12:55:21 AM
Great season to UPS.  No doubt that you guys had a legit team, and should have made it to the elite 8 at least.  It's a shame how insane our bracket was. UWSP and UPS both deserve to still be in the tourny.  And now tomorrow, our #1 UST takes on #2 UW a matchup that shouldnt happen until next weekend.

Yeah, this sectional could have very well been looked at as the final 4
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TommieFan2012 on March 14, 2009, 01:31:39 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 14, 2009, 01:27:47 AM
Quote from: TommieFan2012 on March 14, 2009, 12:55:21 AM
Great season to UPS.  No doubt that you guys had a legit team, and should have made it to the elite 8 at least.  It's a shame how insane our bracket was. UWSP and UPS both deserve to still be in the tourny.  And now tomorrow, our #1 UST takes on #2 UW a matchup that shouldnt happen until next weekend.

Yeah, this sectional could have very well been looked at as the final 4

definately, it's a shame that everything has to be about $$$ in DIII
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Drake Palmer on March 14, 2009, 02:09:23 PM
Tough run UPS team & fans. You guys had a great season! I was one of the few fans from the MIAC who got a chance to see your team play prior to last night's game against UST in Chicago. Back in '07 UPS came out to Wisconsin & played UW-Stout in their holiday tournament.  I was singing your team's praises back then & continued to do so today.  Very fun, talented team to watch.

Whenever the UST run comes to an end, I'll have to tell you of my accidental good luck charm that I picked up from a school in your conference.    ::) :)

Good run!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: P4L on March 16, 2009, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: Drake Palmer on March 14, 2009, 02:09:23 PM
Tough run UPS team & fans. You guys had a great season! I was one of the few fans from the MIAC who got a chance to see your team play prior to last night's game against UST in Chicago. Back in '07 UPS came out to Wisconsin & played UW-Stout in their holiday tournament.  I was singing your team's praises back then & continued to do so today.  Very fun, talented team to watch.

Whenever the UST run comes to an end, I'll have to tell you of my accidental good luck charm that I picked up from a school in your conference.    ::) :)

Good run!


DO tell...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 16, 2009, 02:09:28 PM
Yeah Drake, lets here it   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 16, 2009, 02:45:08 PM
Not a huge surprise, but Willamette has hired assistant Kip Ioane to take over the reins of the men's basketball program:

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/article/2009/03/willamette_hires_ioane_and_lapray_to_coach_bearcat_basketbal.xml

Personally, I think this is going to be a great fit for all parties.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on March 17, 2009, 06:57:24 PM
Had a chance to watch the UST-UPS game.  First, UST was a darn good team.  They handled UPS pressure easily except for a couple of spurts, and in the half court they were excellent at exploiting Loggers' gambles.  The most obvious reason the game wasn't closer was ST's dominance on the offensive glass.  They weren't tall but they were strong, had good position, and in some cases the luck of some bounces--but I'd be shocked if they didn't convert 14 or their 16 offensive boards into buckets, often pulling it back out to force UPS to play more halfcourt d.  I was also a little surprised that UPS was unable to get their 3 point shooters the ball with their feet set.  Given ST's ability to shoot long, UPS needed to answer with just a little more Brown....Foster was brilliant, Krauel was solid offensively, and Williams played brilliantly at times.  He picked up his third foul right around the time UPS tied the game in the first half, and the game turned the moment he came out....

It was a fun season to watch, and it has been great watching the graduating seniors for 4 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Drake Palmer on March 18, 2009, 01:09:15 PM
Quote from: P4L on March 16, 2009, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: Drake Palmer on March 14, 2009, 02:09:23 PM
Tough run UPS team & fans. You guys had a great season! I was one of the few fans from the MIAC who got a chance to see your team play prior to last night's game against UST in Chicago. Back in '07 UPS came out to Wisconsin & played UW-Stout in their holiday tournament.  I was singing your team's praises back then & continued to do so today.  Very fun, talented team to watch.

Whenever the UST run comes to an end, I'll have to tell you of my accidental good luck charm that I picked up from a school in your conference.    ::) :)

Good run!


DO tell...

About a year and a half ago, I did a whirlwind driving tour of Oregon & drove by a number of landmarks in the state – Columbia River Gorge, Bend, Crater Lake, Willamette National Forest, and Eugene; the southern coastline on Hwy 101, Salem, the wine country & back to Portland. 

While I was on my trip I made a point to stop at Willamette University & picked up a basketball tee- shirt from the bookstore.  Then on the mad dash from the northern Oregon coast back to Portland, I stopped in Linfield, picked up a Linfield t-shirt & a pair of white socks with the purple & red Linfield Wildcat logo.  As it so happens, UST's school colors also use the color purple & feature a cat as the school mascot.

Periodically over the past year or so I'd wear the Linfield socks.  Then one day last month I happened to notice I was wearing the Linfield socks when the Tommies made an improbable comeback from a 14 point 2nd half deficit to beat one of their arch conference rivals – the Bethel Royals."  So I thought to my self – "hmm, I wonder if those Linfield socks have anything to do with this incredible win? ::)  ;)

So I washed the Linfield socks & put them away.  Then I broke the socks out for the first NCAA playoff game against Aurora- bam! The Tommies win big.  Wash them again for the game against the big, bad UWSP Pointers the following night & once again the Tommies are victorious 53-50.  Now I'm definitely convinced it's the socks.

Obviously, last Friday the socks are freshly laundered & ready to go, and it was a win against your beloved UPS Loggers.  But here is where I made my critical mistake.  I didn't think I needed to wash them again for Saturday's game against Washington since I only wore the Linfield socks around the house on Friday night while I was watching the UST-UPS game on the Net.  Wrong.  The Tomcats fought hard for a half & had the halftime lead, but Wash U won going away in the 2nd half.

In hindsight knowing the opponent UST was playing- "Wash U" I should have washed the socks for Saturday's game, or the Linfield socks had already used up all of their magic potion on Friday, March 13th.. :o 8) :D

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tommiesports.com%2FMS%2Fnews%2FTommy-cat-fan.jpg&hash=fc558493a97139c48b71e097249b829a13de4df3)(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcsimg.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fimg%2Flogos%2FLinfield_Wildcat.jpg&hash=18e9b4790d1c4de60f74623a472b9d090f5493dc)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 18, 2009, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on March 17, 2009, 06:57:24 PM
Had a chance to watch the UST-UPS game.  First, UST was a darn good team.  They handled UPS pressure easily except for a couple of spurts, and in the half court they were excellent at exploiting Loggers' gambles.  The most obvious reason the game wasn't closer was ST's dominance on the offensive glass.  They weren't tall but they were strong, had good position, and in some cases the luck of some bounces--but I'd be shocked if they didn't convert 14 or their 16 offensive boards into buckets, often pulling it back out to force UPS to play more halfcourt d.  I was also a little surprised that UPS was unable to get their 3 point shooters the ball with their feet set.  Given ST's ability to shoot long, UPS needed to answer with just a little more Brown....Foster was brilliant, Krauel was solid offensively, and Williams played brilliantly at times.  He picked up his third foul right around the time UPS tied the game in the first half, and the game turned the moment he came out....

It was a fun season to watch, and it has been great watching the graduating seniors for 4 years.

Completely agree, those guys will be missed.  I have confidence that UPS will reload and be back in the mix again next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on March 19, 2009, 09:36:22 PM
Just wanted to say congrats to Jason Foster for making the All-Region team...quite an accomplishment!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 21, 2009, 01:52:50 PM
QuoteAbout a year and a half ago, I did a whirlwind driving tour of Oregon & drove by a number of landmarks in the state – Columbia River Gorge, Bend, Crater Lake, Willamette National Forest, and Eugene; the southern coastline on Hwy 101, Salem, the wine country & back to Portland.

That's more of a marathon than a whirlwind. Mostly secondary and tertiary roads.

So my mistake was not washing my socks?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on March 22, 2009, 04:56:59 PM
been away for a while, but just wanted to say great season loggers. also congrats to all those who made all NWC and a special congrats to Foster on his NWC POY and making the all region team. finally congrats to coach lunt on his 1st (of hopefully several) coach of the year awards
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 28, 2009, 03:21:09 PM
"Are you watching sports again today? Why"

Precisely WHY is the end of the NCAA Division II championship game where a senior who had not scored a point the whole game hits the winner with 2.4 seconds left in overtime on it's way to 0:00.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on March 29, 2009, 05:08:12 PM
dissapointing.  UST is a heck of a team and hey, we just didn't play that well.  As a senior it was certainly the best year we've had since I've been here.  I guess we will have to disagree that the teams from a few year's ago were the best, but maybe I am just a bigger fan of defense. 

In the years when we were averaging between 93-103 points per game were still averaging the same field goal perccentage (about .470) but this year was the first time in 5 years that our opponents field goal percentage was below .500. 

Lunt did not recruit Antwan according to Antwan, in fact Antwan almost left when bridge did to go play at Pepperdine to follow the coach who recruited him. 

UPS needs to recruit a ton better than we have, I love Austin Boyce as much as anyone but he is no post and the Kevin Wright (6'6ish) was on the team last year but quit (understandibly) because of family issues.  Any high schools have an extra Nate Montgomery laying around?    Our TALLEST player going into next year is 6'4 (maybe...Austin and Kaleb are listed at 6'5 on the website but I don't know...).   

For next year the season will finish:
Whitworth
Linfield
Lewis and Clark
Willamette/UPS
the rest don't matter

Behind Whitworth's returners, that ain't much left in the conference

on one last pessimistic note, i'm sorry to say that George Fox's girls won the whole thing.  I've never had a more unfortunate experience sitting next to opposing fans.  Last year they were barking and mooing at our players and one of the Dad's tried to start a fight with our fans (or from their perspective standing up for his daughter by acting out violently in public?).   It is unfortunate to me that this justifies their behavior and is sure to give them even more of a sense of entitlement that their players deserve and unfortunatly, their fans tarnish. 

I'm off to law school!  peace everyone, it's been real
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2009, 06:44:29 PM
That doesn't mean you have to stop posting, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on May 25, 2009, 09:14:10 PM


Sounds like Linfield got a good one !

Linfield the Talk of the Town
(May 19th Men's Basketball) - When star point guard Joseph Vance of Vancouver's Mountain View High School casts his future with Linfield and the men's basketball program, his decision is the subject of some light-hearted banter on Portland sports talk radio station 95.5 The Game / Listen
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on May 28, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
Whitworth has posted its 2009-10 schedule and the Pirates have home non-conference games!  And not just against Santa Cruz.  The schedule shows home games against North Central, Wisconsin Stout and Wisconsin Whitewater!  A great lineup for what should be another strong Pirate team.  Unfortunately for the Bucs those games come when the students are gone for break, but beggars can't be chosers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on May 28, 2009, 03:43:14 PM
Whitworth also playing at the WashU tournament in early December with a first round match up against Pomona-Pitzer.  A great all-around schedule for the Bucs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on August 16, 2009, 11:55:57 PM
Long time since the last post, maybe we can get it going again....

Cool seeing the NWC represented on the front page by Puget Sound and their trip to the Bahamas.  The Bahamas, Basketball, and the Miss Universe contestants right next door, sounds like fun.

Glad to see Bartlett back (http://boxerathletics.blogspot.com/), a good step in bouncing back from last season, hopefully he and his brother can avoid the injury bug this season.  According to the blog entry, sounds like my Boxers likes their incoming class, but haven't heard any specifics.

Whitman (http://www.whitman.edu/whitman/index.cfm?objectid=8E051E7E-B5FB-568A-E549A2FE81D1DD12), PLU (http://www.plu.edu/athletics/mbball/2008-09releases/060809recruits.htm), and Whitworth (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/08_09/incoming.htm) have announced their classes.  Anybody have any insight on other recruiting news?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on August 25, 2009, 07:38:29 PM
Quote from: NWCer on August 16, 2009, 11:55:57 PM
Long time since the last post, maybe we can get it going again....

Cool seeing the NWC represented on the front page by Puget Sound and their trip to the Bahamas.  The Bahamas, Basketball, and the Miss Universe contestants right next door, sounds like fun.

Glad to see Bartlett back (http://boxerathletics.blogspot.com/), a good step in bouncing back from last season, hopefully he and his brother can avoid the injury bug this season.  According to the blog entry, sounds like my Boxers likes their incoming class, but haven't heard any specifics.

Whitman (http://www.whitman.edu/whitman/index.cfm?objectid=8E051E7E-B5FB-568A-E549A2FE81D1DD12), PLU (http://www.plu.edu/athletics/mbball/2008-09releases/060809recruits.htm), and Whitworth (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/08_09/incoming.htm) have announced their classes.  Anybody have any insight on other recruiting news?

Willamette announced their recruiting class today:

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/article/2009/08/mens_basketball_announces_2009_newcomers.xml
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on August 26, 2009, 02:31:28 PM
Thanks BearcatPress....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on August 27, 2009, 10:56:15 PM
Great question re: recruiting, NWCer.  Seems like an important year for Puget Sound if the roll is going to continue, and not much word I've heard on recruiting to Tacoma.  I looked at the Whitman page on this year's recruiting class, and even if it's over the top it's great, great advertising. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on August 28, 2009, 12:41:09 AM
Linfield got a point guard from Vancouver, WA, Joseph Vance, who had some looks from D1 schools. I saw him in open gym and the kid can really play. He sets others up really well and has a cold jump shot. They also pulled a kid from Stadium HS I think in Tacoma, Zach Mielke *spelling*. He is a 6'5 wing, have not seen him play, but he got second team all division in a really tough league in Tacoma and I know some other schools in the NWC were after him. Zach Anderson a 6'5 wing/post from Yamhill,OR,  transferred to Linfield from Oregon State where he was on the football team. Seen him play a few times and he is beginning to get the feel back, can knock down the 3 point shot too
Linfield is looking strong.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on August 28, 2009, 02:39:40 PM
Thanks for that update formercat.  I think Linfield will be right back in the NWC playoff mix.  Several of the teams seem to be on an upswing: Linfield, Whitman, maybe PLU.  Plus the regular contenders (L&C and Willamette) should be as tough as ever.  Whitworth and UPS will have the work cut out for them to stay at the top.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 01, 2009, 08:28:56 PM
Hey, fellas!

Willamette has a big incoming class, but no so big.  4 of them are under 6 foot, and if you factor in most heights are inflated, pretty small for the NWC.  It will be interesting to see how they use them.

Whitman's recruit page sounds like they have all D1 players, probably sugar coating.  But they do sound like Bridgeland recruited as expected.

I heard LC got a guard that Whitworth, Whitman and UPS were all after.  How did they do that?  They are got a couple of bigs.  Hope Kollasch has healed enough to play come October.

Whitworth is suppose to have gotten a big from E Wash that might be the best big in the league going back several years.  That would be a stretch considering what Foster has done over the last several years.   

Sounds like the league will have the best balance in a long time!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 02, 2009, 05:37:13 PM
Very excited for my Loggers this year...from what I've heard their trip to the Bahamas was a blast and some of the young fellas showed quite a bit of promise. Should be an interesting season in the ol' NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 02, 2009, 05:50:04 PM
Welcome to the board UPS Zeddy.....  The Loggers are very well represented on here.....   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 02, 2009, 05:51:00 PM
TryMeTeam, yeah I looked at Willamette's incoming players (thanks bearcatpress), and as you said it is large in number but not a lot in size, but if you can play you can play, let's see what the young coach can do.

Can't come on here with out talking about my Boxers, word from their open gym (now granted this is what I heard that SOMEONE ELSE heard....  You know how that goes) that with two healthy Bartletts back, and an  incoming class that has some good guards and a good transfer post out of Yakima Valley that they can rebound from last year and get back in the mix....  Sure hope so.

Does seem like their is going to be some balance this year like TMT said....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 02, 2009, 09:06:34 PM
NWCer:

I have a question for you.  What is your take on Lowery?  It seems like he has had some talent (and I will agree to some bad luck injuries), but it seems his teams have underachieved.  He is active on the sidelines with enthusiasm, and he now has most if not all his own recruits (how long has he been there, 3 years?).

Not dissing your team, just wondering what your take was.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 02, 2009, 11:41:58 PM
TMT, I like him.  Yes the injuries were a tough deal last year, the two previous years, after his initial one, they finished 4th and in that logjam for 3rd.  So I wouldn't call it underachieving, after taking a peek at the archives of the coaches poll they were slotted to come in 5th and 4th those years.  He pretty much has his guys now I believe, will be an important year.  No dis taken at all TMT, that's what the board is all about, looking forward to the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 03, 2009, 05:32:06 PM
Good take.  I like Lowery too.  I think the injuries have played a major role in PU's record over the last couple of years, especially to the senior Bartlett.  PU could have contended for the title had he not been hurt.

There are a couple of other team's coaches who I am wondering about this year:  How will Lunt do without the Fab 4 (I would add Pinkney to the 3), and how will WU do with Ioane as the head coach? 

I think UPS might struggle and be more "beatable" this year, at least I hope so being an OR small college fan.  Lunt's coaching abilities will be tested this year.  All of the talk for the last two years about how good he is, almost all by UPS fans, will be tested this year. 

Iaone is in a tough position, and has some returning talent, including one of the best players in the league, maybe the best returning player, in Mitchell.  But they graduated 6 seniors who all played significant minutes last year.  That is a lot to lose for a rookie head coach to overcome.  But I hope he does well.
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 03, 2009, 07:39:08 PM
Great points.  I think Lunt has done a good job, but a lot will be told on how he does without those "luxuries" he had in Williams, Kraul, and Foster.  Bearcatpress probably knows James the best, but dare I say "legend", tough act to follow, especially with the loss of all those seniors.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 06, 2009, 06:35:55 PM
Thanks for the welcome NWCer. Coaching will be quite an interesting theme this season. Hopefully the Boxers will stay healthy so we can finally see what they're like at full strength. Obviously it's not like Division 1 where coaches get dumped left and right, but I do think pressure is starting to mount down in Forest Grove for the Boxers to make a playoff run or at least an appearance.  Ioane definitely has his work cut out for him but he's got solid pieces coming back, mainly Mitchell. What about Bridgeland? Will the Missionaries be able to do more than just play people tough now that he's had a full year in Walla Walla?  As for Lunt, all of us in Loggerville are very confident that he can get the job done this season. I think the Logs have more talent than most people think right now, that perhaps didn't get the chance to shine much last year. However, team chemistry, focus, and preparation almost always trump talent and I know Lunt will have everyone on the same page come November. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 08, 2009, 03:32:37 PM
Yeah, just what we need, another UPS supporter.  Like we don't have enough of those biased, self-serving, irrational fans on here already!

Just kidding!  Welcome, Zed!  Actually, UPS fans are the most knowledgeable posters on this board.  And very passionate!  You are in good company.  You will have to work hard to keep up with them.

Any news out there?  I haven't heard anything, or enough, about Linfield, L&C, or Fox.  What's going on there?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 08, 2009, 06:42:55 PM
TMT,

  Those 3 schools haven't released anything yet, except Linfield about the guard they got from Vancouver.  What's your "biddy" at LC saying?, they usually keep the cupboard pretty full....  Is the kid who was sick last year gonna be ok and be back for the year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 08, 2009, 07:08:42 PM
TMT- Thanks, I guess  ;)
Just curious, where do your NWC allegiances lay?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 09, 2009, 10:30:46 AM
I came from a DIII school and am now living in Oregon, so I am a fan of all of the Oregon teams.  That gives me some pretty good rivalries almost every weekend with the Washington schools. 

If I had to select a pecking order, I would say LC (I like their coach and they have been the most successful over the last few years), Wil (next best record, but never have been a Gordie fan), Pac, Fox (they always seem the fiesty underdog) and Linfield.  Those are just my preferences.

Being honest, the WA schools are better teams overall, and have had the most success, so it is fun to root for the underdog OR teams against them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 09, 2009, 04:22:32 PM
Not a Gordie fan?! That's blasphemy. What's your beef there?

I guess I've never thought of the NWC in an OR vs WA context...maybe because there are some certain teams in WA that I absolutely loathe. 

Here's a better question TMT- Which WA team do you enjoy seeing lose the most?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on September 09, 2009, 06:47:24 PM
update on Linfield...
Along with the nice recruits Linfield got they also picked up Brady Martin a 6'6 forward from McMinnville HS that was an all state player. Last year he attended Clackamas CC and now he is at Linfield. He has an unorthodox shot but it goes in and he can fly with the very best of them.  Linfield has the potential to put some very good leapers on the floor this year.

Preseason 1st team All NWC.... not including any newcomers because while they may turn on to be very talented, you never know until u get them on the floor.
In no particular order:
David Riley - Whitworth
Nate Montgomery - Whitworth
Cody Tesoro - Linfield
KC Wiser - Linfield
Brandon Shaw - Whitman

Other possibilities are:
Cameron Mitchell - Willamette - don't know that he will have the supporting cast this year to help him get back into the first team.
Bartlett brothers - Pacific - unfortunately for those poor kids they cannot seem to stay healthy
Josh Kollasch - Lewis & Clark - if he is able to come back and play and how his health holds up also.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 09, 2009, 07:58:03 PM
Teddy:

Yeah, I knew that Gordie comment would stir some juices.  I just don't think he has achieved what he should have with the talent he has had.  And I really hate the flex offense.  To me, it just shows no imagination.  Wil has played great defense over the years, but their offense I just don't get.  I was at a LC vs Wil game a few years ago and LC was up about 10 with a few minutes to go when Gordie finally turned them loose and they just buried LC after that.  I wonder how good they would have been had he done that all year.

To me, the flex is an offense you use when you have limited talent, and Wil has had a lot more than that.  Flex is what they use in high school.  I expect more from a college program. 

Which WA team?  It use to be UPS and Whitworth pretty much evenly, but now I have to throw Whitman in that mix.  They are still third, but I don't think they will be after this year.  UPS beats the crap out of the OR teams, and they never get called for it (I guess if it works, you might was well use it!).  Whitworth gets JC talent to reload every year, so they never have a down year like every OR team.  That just makes me mad!  I wonder how they do that with Spokane being such a wonderful place to live during the winter!  They both have been so good for so long, I want them to lose every game, even when they play each other.

Bridgeland is going to turn UPS into their JV team soon.  He will make Walla Walla a dreaded trip to go along with Whitworth.  And it could be as soon as this year.

There goes all of my Karma in just one post.  But that is how I see it.  It doesn't hurt to stir the pot early in the season.  Might spur some interest.

FormerCat:

Sounds like it will be Whitworth and Linfield in the championship game if you are right about all NWC.  I will throw this out now.  Wiser may not be the one of the best two centers in the league.  He has been great so far, but there may be some newbies to take over for Foster at the top spot.

I am going to have to watch out for snipers now.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 09, 2009, 08:03:48 PM
NWCer:

Biddy just got back to school, and I haven't heard from him yet.  Kollasch is coming off some serious stuff, so he may not be ready to go at the start of the season.  The word last spring was that he was due for more surgery late in the summer to complete the repair, but I haven't heard anything else.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on September 09, 2009, 09:23:29 PM
TMT - Spokane is BEAUTIFUL in the winter. 

If you can find it under the eight feet of snow...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on September 09, 2009, 09:47:20 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on September 09, 2009, 07:58:03 PM
To me, the flex is an offense you use when you have limited talent, and Wil has had a lot more than that. 

Gonzaga uses the flex offense and it seems to me they have been a very successful and talented team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 09, 2009, 11:04:25 PM
TMT-  Whoa whoa whoa. I'm gonna need you to take a 30 second timeout here.  Don't get me wrong, I love to stir the pot...and I love that you're fired up already in September...but to say that Bridgeland is gonna make UPS his JV team soon? Not only is that a low-blow, but it's downright foolish.  First of all, UPS doesn't dread any road trip. Loggers want to be challenged. Loggers welcome adversity. Secondly, if you believe everything you read in Whitman's recruiting story, you're probably the guy that thinks that strippers are in to you.  I don't doubt that Bridgeland is bringing good talent in this year, but the guy is talking like Chris Webber, Juwan Howard and Jalen Rose just showed up in Walla Walla.  And thirdly, you're talking about the defending CHAMPS. It took all 18 of those guys to get it done last year, and regardless of who has graduated, there are plenty of them coming back who know how to win. 
As for your Gordie comment, I appreciate any argument that is made logically and legitimately defended. No bones to pick with you there, even though I think Gordie was a helluva coach and even better guy.   

FormerCat: No love for any of the Loggers on your pre-season all NWC team?  Ask Riley if he had fun trying to guard Austin Boyce in the national tournament game last season. And your boy Shaw from Whitman had a 27/70 assist/turnover ratio last season in conference play. In two games against UPS, he had 1 assist and 15 turnovers. Just sayin'. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on September 10, 2009, 12:20:56 AM
Quote from: UPS Zeddy on September 09, 2009, 11:04:25 PM
FormerCat: No love for any of the Loggers on your pre-season all NWC team?  Ask Riley if he had fun trying to guard Austin Boyce in the national tournament game last season. And your boy Shaw from Whitman had a 27/70 assist/turnover ratio last season in conference play. In two games against UPS, he had 1 assist and 15 turnovers. Just sayin'. 

Sorry you feel UPS got the shaft in my picks, but Austin Boyce was the fourth option last year. That means teams were more concerned with guarding 3 other people and there for I think he got a lot better looks than he will this year as possibly the number 1 option. Now you got the guy who was guarding Foster or Kraul or whoever a teams best defender is guarding Boyce and I just do not think that translates into the amount of success it takes to be on the 1st team. I like how upset you were too that I picked Brandon Shaw, that all of a sudden he and I became big homies in your mind. Kid put up almost 17 points and 4 rebounds a game as a freshman, pretty impressive. He was in a system that is very different from most any other place and was a young kid, so I believe there is a strong chance that those assist and turnover numbers will change with a year under his belt.

I see UPS fighting for a spot in the middle this year. They lost a ton and while you can say it took 18 players to get it done last year that is just a nice and polite thing to say that makes everyone feel good. Truth is it took Williams, Foster and Kraul to win those games and yes there were some guys that contributed at different times very nicely, but lets not get carried away.  Could UPS blow everyone away this year and win the conference? Yes, stranger things have happened. Is this likely to happen? No.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 10, 2009, 12:36:23 AM
Quote from: UPS Zeddy on September 09, 2009, 11:04:25 PM
but the guy is talking like Chris Webber, Juwan Howard and Jalen Rose just showed up in Walla Walla.  

And as a Michigan fan, may I remind you that not only did Webber (the others were innocent) fail to bring a title (in fairness, they finished second in the country as both frosh and sophs), he brought down the first ever major sanctions on a Michigan athletic program.

Alas, they have not been the last.  I once took pride in Michigan being perhaps the cleanest program in all of d1.  I feel very violated. >:(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 10, 2009, 01:27:31 AM
"They lost a ton and while you can say it took 18 players to get it done last year that is just a nice and polite thing to say that makes everyone feel good."   -formercat

Maybe it's that type of attitude that has kept Linfield from getting the job done.

I'm assuming that the name "formercat" means you're a retired Wildcat.  And I didn't say you and Shaw were "big homies" and I'm certainly not upset about it. I definitely think Shaw has game... just found it odd that you named multiple players from 6 different schools and left out the champs. That's all. 

I also think you underestimate Boyce's skills. Time will tell.

Mr. Ypsi- Don't let these latest allegations get you down.  As much as I don't like Rodriguez, it blows my mind that those players came out with that information.  I would want all the extra practice time I could get if I went 3-9.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on September 10, 2009, 04:03:04 AM
If Williams, Kraul or Foster is coming back then I will definitely name someone from the champs to the 1st team.

Quote from: UPS Zeddy on September 09, 2009, 11:04:25 PM
And your boy Shaw from Whitman   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 10, 2009, 02:12:40 PM
So, I took a full time out instead.  Bridgeland had almost no time to recruit last year and produced a very competitive team.  I doubt they would have finished as well if the Molitor had still been their coach.  Now you add a full year recruiting class to what he brought in last year, and I think everyone will dread that road trip this year.  I understand sugarcoating your recruits bios, but just looking at the facts (height, all-league honors, "high jump champion", etc), it looks like a very athletic incoming class.  Bridgeland can flat out recruit!  I will get my kudos and "told you sos" later for calling it here first.

I don't just stir up the pot for effect.  I have to believe what I am saying to put it down here.  I have to admit I do take delight when I believe my opinions will build fires.

I just love statistics, too:
Foster     15-pts     25 min/gm       Gone
Williams   13-         30-                   Gone
Krauel      14+        26+                 Gone
Boyce       11-         24-                  Back
Brown      7            13                    Gone
Levin        6+          13+                 Back
Everyone else:  less than 5 pts/gm

and it just goes downhill from there.  Boyce will get his share of points, he is a quality player.  But where will the support come from to compete in this league?  They will have plenty of players who have lots of minutes and experience, but only in supporting roles.  Sheldon could be a factor, but I don't see it.  I have to agree with Zeddy on this one.

And with formercat on Shaw, too.  He can just get his points anytime he wants to.  1st team, maybe a stretch, but it wouldn't be a surprise to me at all if he got it.

How did you know strippers like me?  I have been trying to keep that a secret!  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 10, 2009, 02:52:25 PM
Had to throw some Karma at you for that last one TMT....  I liked that...  Foster, Williams, and Krauel were SO good, the 15, 14, and 13ppg's don't even tell the whole story.

Go Boxers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 10, 2009, 03:10:20 PM
Part of the story is that they scored those points in fewer minutes than most stars with every team doing their best to shut them down using their best defensive players.  The other players were often open due to double teams on them.  On any other team, those 3 could have averaged 20 to 30 points per game and a lot more minutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on September 10, 2009, 10:46:53 PM
I've been a UPS fan for many years, and love the team and the system and Coach Lunt.
This year's team is going to struggle.  Boyce is excellent.  The man has skills.  Nobody has mentioned Heyman, a really nice player--D1 potential--who was in the shadows last season because, frankly, UPS started the three best players in the NWC and let them do their thing. After that there are some very good role players (Colin K is the toughest guy to play at Puget Sound since the Bridgeland years; Shelton will be a strong rebounder and defender) and some talent that hasn't played....I don't know anything about the recruiting class....I think PS gets hammered on the road by lots of teams this year.  I think Whitworth is the class of the league--well-coached and Montgomery looks to me like the best player coming back to NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 11, 2009, 02:21:09 AM
Pugetsoundfan- Just when I thought I'd be getting some help in here you come and deliver another shot! You think the Loggers will get "hammered on the road by lots of teams this year"???

Are you kidding me? We go from 16-0 to getting steamrolled in Newberg? Where's the faith my man? Look, I'm not saying this year's squad is destined for a final four appearance, nor am I guaranteeing an undefeated conference season. All I am saying is that UPS has plenty of talent, very good coaching, and returners that know what it takes to win tough ball games.

Question for anybody who wants to answer: If my theory on it taking all 18 guys to did what the Loggers did last season is bogus, then why didn't the trio of Foster/Krauel/Williams get the job done their junior and sophomore years? Why were they 11-5 both of those seasons with zero NWC titles? 

TMT- I know Bridgeland can recruit. Believe me. And he's a damn good coach. I just thought the recruits page was a tad overboard. And maybe strippers do really like you.   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 11, 2009, 11:44:40 AM
PSF:

You nailed it.  I like your assessment of the returning players as well as the impact of the 3.  The real question is how far those role players develop from last year into consistent contributors this year.  Straight forward talk from such a die hard fan.  Commendable!

Zed:

Getting hammered on the road by lots of teams doesn't mean all teams, and shouldn't mean Fox.  However, Fox has played them tough the last few years, even beating them a couple of years ago.  So you might want to pick another team than Fox for your point.

I agree, the recruiting page was WAY overblown, but if you read past that, it does look like a very good class.

Now here I go again!  F/K/W didn't win their soph and junior years because.... coaching.  There, I said it.  I don't know Lunt personally, but I thought UPS suffered from an inexperienced coach (not being ready to handle the head coaching job with no real head coaching background, especially a team with such high expectations), and maybe a lack of leadership.  They didn't seem as prepared those two years as they did last year.  Coaching stars like that is no easy task, and they were the stars of the league.  From the few games I did see, Lunt looked like he was trying to imitate Bridgeland, only being a lot more animated.  I thought he would have been better served to be more, not entirely, calm on the sidelines.  It didn't seem to help his team the first two years, but didn't seem to harm them last year.

Why the change?  I really don't know, it could have been Lunt gaining the experience needed to coach at this level.  But I think (key word here) it probably was F/K/W refusing to let another year, their last one, slip by.  They looked, and sounded on the radio, to be so motivated last year.   

This thought will play out or be rebuked this year.  If UPS can stay at the top and dominate the top teams again, I will have to have a big lunch on my words.  It not, PSF and I can say we called it here first.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on September 12, 2009, 12:39:42 AM
Why weren't the Loggers more successful in the big 3's junior year?  I think there were two big factors.  First and foremost, the league had recruited to and coached to the UPS system--lesser teams were able to play with UPS because the Loggers were giving up lots of layups to teams that understood the press and were capable of beating it.  PLU came in with much, much less skilled players, exploited the press and played UPS very tight games.  On the other side, in the best Bridge years UPS had two or three great 3 ball shooters, so there was always one on the floor.  Two years ago UPS had Marsh, a good player and nice shooter who had some off games--and when he went to the bench, tired from running the press, there wasn't a dead three ball shooter to bring into replace him.  So the Logs are giving up layups on one end and aren't able to answer with 3s on the other. 

Brown was a valuable weapon for UPS last year, wanted to see more of him against St. Thomas.....he'll be missed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on September 12, 2009, 02:59:44 AM
As long as I'm up...let me respond to TryMeTeam on coaching.  Last season, the Loggers adapted the system to meet the league's adjustments.  UPS played halfcourt defense for the first time in a few years, and it was effective.  The measure of the team to my mind was that it crushed Whitworth in Spokane--no contest, baby.   The Pirates did manage to beat UPS in Tacoma on a night when the Loggers played badly.  The Loggers were smart, changed things up and kept opponents off balance, and were tough and together in the face of adversity.  Two years ago I saw finger-pointing when things went wrong.  Last year, I saw a tough team that got better when it was challenged.  Coach Lunt was awesome.



 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 15, 2009, 03:17:08 PM
PSF:

I agree with your last post, but like the ending to a good movie gone bad, I didn't like your ending.  Or I should say it confused me.  Well written and then the blanket statement "Lunt was awesome".

I got the feeling that the first two years of his tenure, the "inmates were running the asylum" so to speak (just a saying, not making a statement).  The players appeared and sounded like they were doing their thing without guidance from the top man.  Last year, I couldn't tell if the reason for success was guidance had come from the top (there had to be some going to a half court game) or the players were more committed and just plain dominating. 

So if it was Lunt, how was he awesome?  Did he go from being inexperienced to competent after his first two years just like that? 

I am not sure the league recruited to handle UPS's press, although some of that probably happened.  But they seemed to scout, experience and made adjustments to handle it.  A full court press can be rendered somewhat ineffective once a team plays against it and learns how to beat it.  I think it was more successful by the talent level of UPS rather than their system.  The NWC is not that much more talented than the other teams UPS has faced in the pre-league games, but they seemed to do a better job against their press. 

I am not bashing Lunt.  I am not a fan of his sideline ranting, but I don't think I have seen him really coach yet.  I think we will get a more accurate feel of how good he is this year.

A final note.  I read Colin K's blog on the trip.  What an articulate, well spoken young man.  I thought he did a great job recounting that trip!  Although not blessed with the talent of the big 3, I love his hustle and drive.  A true asset to his team.  Well, of course I like him.  He is from OR.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on September 20, 2009, 07:17:58 PM
On to this year, Koach is one tough SOB but to call him the toughest since bridgeland was around is overlooking some guys id take on my team any day. id take any recruiting newletter, write up, etc with a grain of salt, because everybody knows that no coach is gonna say, so and so is a lightning quick guard who averaged 15 points a game shooting 15 % outside of 15ft and scored the majority of his points on lay ups. since he has a horrible shot he used his impressive athletic ability to take adavantage of the put it up and go get it technique. player accolades arent exactly a reliable factor to rely on either unless there are an all american or somethin cause truth is some leagues are pretty terrible and teams idea of playing defense is parting the red sea when the offense drives to the hole.

i dont really have to many predictions for this season, but i think heyman is going to make some noise next year, and be on the lookout for a UPS guard Edrick (don't know how to spell his last name) that kid is tough, him and koach are gonna be lockdown defenders. depending on how the league finishes up id say the road for POY might run through tacoma again. Austin boyce is going to be in the running for it if, and this is a huge if, Boyce hasn't been a lazy ass all summer, which is certainly a possibility.

Looking forward to the season for sure
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 23, 2009, 03:29:01 AM
Wow shock....  Anyone who can spit some Jay Z on the D3hoops post board gets my attention... Classic..  "I'm not a businessman I'm a Business man....". Haha
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on September 23, 2009, 10:52:29 AM
Quote from: NWCer on September 23, 2009, 03:29:01 AM
Wow shock....  Anyone who can spit some Jay Z on the D3hoops post board gets my attention... Classic..  "I'm not a businessman I'm a Business man....". Haha

Let me handle my business, d@mn!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on September 23, 2009, 02:03:02 PM
Quote from: 3peatchamp10 on September 23, 2009, 01:34:30 PM
I won 3 NWC titles, and went to 2 sweet 16s and 1 elite 8, my list of credentials and achievements  is long and distinguished ("yeah just like my johnson" com'mon somebody name that movie)

Slider: Goose, you're such a d!ckhead. Whose butt did you kiss to get in here anyway?
Goose: The list is long, but distinguished.
Slider: Yeah, well so is my Johnson.

http://www.geocities.com/goose_topgun2k/longlist.wav

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 3peatchamp10 on September 23, 2009, 04:37:48 PM
you da man OxyBob!  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 23, 2009, 06:13:12 PM
I can't stop laughing, this is great stuff
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 23, 2009, 07:06:58 PM
Stop it, NWCer.  You're just stirring the pot! :)

Us OR fans would never jump on each other like that!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 23, 2009, 08:22:51 PM
I must have been in the dark ages, I had never seen that youtube clip. 

TMT I just wish there was a 2nd Boxer backer out there for me to even possibly dispute with...

Zeddy's last post was funny.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LOGGER4LIFE on September 24, 2009, 06:37:39 PM
Long time reader, first time poster. Obviously a Logger fan!!!! Looking forward to the season for sure. Certainly more balance across the conference than previous years, but I still look for my Loggers to come out on top!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LOGGER4LIFE on September 25, 2009, 03:25:43 PM
Thanks for the welcome Zeddy. I hate for my first real post to carry on this negatively charged convo, but I got to say a few things that came to mind reading the last few pages of this blog. Even an outsider can see that logshock101/3peatchamp10 is taking the comments made by UPSZeddy so personally, one can't help but conclude that logschock/3peatchamp is actually Jeff Walker. My man, you can't give yourself away so easily!!!

More importantly, I have to come to Zeddy's back here. I don't mean to pile on, but I completely agree with Zeddy's comments. I have been a fan of the UPS program for quite a long time--even before Bridgeland was there, so I know a lot about Logger basketball. And from that knowledge, I can honestly say that Logshock's posts have been rediculous and bordering on complete insanity. With all the success that the Logger program has had over the past decade, there has only been really one question that I ever had about strategy and rotation--and that was this whole Jeff Walker situation.

There is absolutely no way ANYONE can convince me (or anyone on this board) that Walker deserved to play over Krauel, Brown, or even a young Koach. There skill sets trump Walkers eleven times out of ten, to say the least. It confused me--and even offended me--that the Loggers would put games on the line or risk poor/slow starts by starting Walker. I won't go any further with this part of my comments--Zeddy's earlier posts provide the statistical evidence.

But I think what bothers me the most about Logshock/3peatchamp's comments are his posts about leadership and his concept of team. As I have said before, I have been around the UPS team for a while and I have always thought that one of their best strengths was their sense of team and togetherness. Jeff claimed to be a leader on the teams he was on, but his comments on leadership do not merit this role. Everyone on the team has a role in how successful a team proves to be--I would think that someone who had a limited (and at the same time, bloated) playing role throughout his five years would understand that. I think Zeddy's post, again, said it best. I was surprised at how much Walker/Logshock/3peatchamp seemed to take for granted the privelage playing college basketball is--especially playing for such a great team and program. Walker--playing for UPS isn't something that's given to you. And even when it was, you didn't deserve it or act humble enough to prevent the firestorm that you are experiencing now. When it comes down to it, and especially after reading your comments on this board, I would take Polis or Douglas or anyone who may not have played as much, over you simply BASED ON YOUR ATTITUDE. Unbelievable. Take responsibility!


Now, like I said before, I hate that my first post on here is negatively charged. But I was influenced to comment, and even join this board, but these last few pages of posts. I'm not trying to take anything away from your career. Any athlete that made it through four/five years of athletics, as well as graduating from a prestigious university like Puget Sound has something to be very proud of. But, like I said, take responsbility, think about your comments, and, as you put it, sack up.

That being said, I think that there's a real bright season ahead for the Logs. I look forward to posting in the future about my thoughts and predictions.

Here's a taste  ;): Edric Egberuare will be an all conference player this season after playing very limited minutes in '08-'09. Looking for the young guys to step up!!!!

Over and out. Peace.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 25, 2009, 05:52:21 PM
L4L
Interesting prediction for a player that only played in 9 league games (was he hurt?) and averaged less the 2 points and average less than 6 minutes a game, less than 3 in league games.  What do you know?!!!!!

You will get serious props from me if he pulls all-conference off.  Your last post was so well written and then you seem to lose creditability with that last one.  Pretty wild prediction!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on September 28, 2009, 12:23:42 PM
I am a bit disappointed with all the internal bashing that is going on with UPS alumni and former players.  I think that both sides are being a bit over the top.  Zeddy/Robert Kraul, why would you can out a role player like?  Lunt picked the best person for the job.  And Logshock/Jeff, no need to say they choked, they were sophmores with a lot of responsiblity and a lot to learn.  I'm just gland they eventually figured it all out. 
The real point of this post is...you are both Loggers and were teammates, for crying out loud.  And I'm even guessing friends.  I didn't think that was what being a logger was all about...I thought they looked out for each other.  I can't remember/don't know the last time former players got on here and were all interested in talking about the past.  People reading and commenting on the boards aren't interested in talking about the past.  Lets move on and talk about this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on September 28, 2009, 12:31:06 PM
Well I'm off my soap box now...

I'm excited for the upcoming bball year!  It feels like its been forever since last season and the bitter taste that St. Thomas left. 

I am also really interested to see what Lunt can do this year. A player like Jason Foster only comes around about once every 10 years...so that will be a huge hole to fill.  I'm wondering what if any presence UPS will have down low this year.

Also, when can we start calling it Title-town insted of T-town for Tacoma?  Lol.
;D

NWCer, ready for another year!?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on September 28, 2009, 04:01:10 PM
LogShow- I was just a little perturbed by the continuance of negativity towards alumni and coaches on here by one of our own supporters..but as I said before, all that's important now is 2009-2010 Logger Hoops. And "TitleTown" has a nice ring to it if you ask me. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 28, 2009, 08:12:40 PM
Logshow,

With all the Logger peeps goin' back and forth I've been waiting for you to jump on here!

I'm ready, hope my Boxers (most notably the Bartletts) are healthy and that they're ready too!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on September 28, 2009, 11:20:00 PM
Quote from: NWCer on September 28, 2009, 08:12:40 PM
Logshow,

With all the Logger peeps goin' back and forth I've been waiting for you to jump on here!

I'm ready, hope my Boxers (most notably the Bartletts) are healthy and that they're ready too!

The Bartletts are like Deion Branch...just can't stay on the field.  Really too bad for them.  What's their eligibility status at?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 28, 2009, 11:45:41 PM
As far as know Show R. Bartlett is a senior/grad and C. Bartlett is a redshirt soph......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 29, 2009, 08:47:00 PM
NWCer:

The PU website indicates Carson to be a sophomore last year with no redshirt season indicated.  That would make him a junior this year unless last year was the redshirt year.  Did he reshirt last season?

Actually the only way to redshirt is to pay for a fifth year.  You indicated Ross is a graduate student?  That would work too, except that is quite a load to add BB to a graduate students workload. 

Either way, PU will be vastly improved if both of them play this year.  It will be fun to watch the Boxers this year if they both stay healthy.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 29, 2009, 10:33:09 PM
Hey TMT,

I looked at the website after your post.  Saw last year's roster.  What I've heard is that the younger Bartlett will be a sophomore again because he got a medical redshirt, got his year back last year, because the injury happened so early in the season.

According to their website Ross Bartlett is indeed going to graduate school at Pacific, and will play this year, yes quite a load, hoping he's up to it.  Hearsay from the open gyms this fall is that the older Bartlett is playing well and feeling good and looks to be healthy and ready to go.

Vastly improved is a great thing TMT.

What's the latest from your "biddy"?

Go Boxers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 29, 2009, 11:34:34 PM
Biddy said Kollasch is back, but nowhere near full strength.  He was only released by the doctor in mid-August.   He might not be at full strength until after the first of the year, maybe not at all. 

LC may have a new feature, long missing, this year, an inside game.  They have two or three bigs this year.

Only two of the four freshmen who got plenty of playing time last year are back, grade issues.

He said the players feel they will be pretty good this year, but at this point, what players don't think their team will be pretty good.

It will be interesting how they match up with Lin and PacU.  I don't think Wil or GF will be deep enough to play with these three.  Tesoro and Wiser will be tough to match up with, and Linfield is suppose to the a good point guard coming in, but they lost a lot in Olson and Weber, and maybe McCollum graduating.  They will be hard to replace.

PacU will be led the the Bartletts, but Howe leaves a huge hole for them.  I wasn't a big Gaulton fan last year, but he might do well this year.  The Bartletts may not have enough support for PU to contend.  NWCer, any word on transfers or freshmen?

Mitchell will dominate the league this year, but losing 6 seniors who played a lot will be hard to overcome, and I just don't see them doing it.  Add a rookie coach, and "rebuilding" might be the description for this years' team.

GF has Stockner and Martin back, but I think Atwater is gone (their roster is not available), and that won't be enough to compete in the NWC.  They probably will finish last of the OR teams again.

So I have, in OR and in order, LC, PU and LIn tied with the tiebreaker going to Lin, Wil, and GF. 

WA will be more evenly matched, but I don't have a good feel for those teams yet.   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 29, 2009, 11:51:54 PM
Thanks TMT, good insight.

I have gotten a little "word" TMT.... I'll spill it  ;), I know a few alums who play in open gyms at Pac during the fall, I would play but I suck  :).....  What I'm hearing is that the older Bartlett is looking good, the younger Bartlett is working himself back, Jury is looking like he could be "ready"....  As far as the new guys they said its a pretty good group, they like the transfer, from Yakima Valley I believe, a pretty athletic post guy, they also said a guard from Sherwood (I think its Wester) is going to be good, and Lowery also snagged a couple good ones from Seattle I've heard.  I hear ya on Gaulton TMT, but maybe with the younger Bartlett back, this Wester kid, and possibly a better guard group (which you ripped last year  ;) ), maybe that will take some of the "shine" off of him.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on September 30, 2009, 08:20:38 PM
So is there any word on new Loggers--anybody coming in who will contend for playing time?  Looks like a starting five of Boyce, Colin K, Heyman, Shelton, and Edric E....If Shelton proves out, Edric E. and Heyman are as good as advertised, and Boyce plays to his potential, not bad at all.  But I'm thinking about last year's younger players and don't see a ton of help there. Aberg got some time in the early games last year and looked like he might be a useful player, Gehring brought some good stuff (but he's hurt, right?), and after that I'm struggling to name anyone who had enough time on the floor to be expected to give much this year.  As much as I hate to say it,  I keep thinking this is a .500 team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 30, 2009, 08:42:41 PM
Good assessment PSfan...  With the balance this year, and probably the lack of that ultra dominant team, a .500 team may still be able to get into the playoffs.  Will there be many 10 plus league game winners this year?  In '07 my Boxers came in 4th with and 8-8 record, and in '08 there was that log jam at 9-7...  So maybe this is the year 8-8 or 9-7 gets you in, although I know UPS has set one helluva standard and maybe a 4th place finish won't appease the Tacoma masses....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on September 30, 2009, 08:53:02 PM
i've had several conversations with coach lunt (last time was before the bahamas trip) and the impression i got was that the loggers are going to be pretty tough again.  Also there was mention of a frosh post that brought comparisons to a young McVey.If this kid matures the way McVey did look out, however in the one time i did see him play i didn't think he had the same freakish athleticism and strength. PSfan you forgot about Bryce Levin who was ice cold last year, but has the potential to be the lights out shooter that the loggers will need to stretch the floor and create lanes to attack the basket. and yes gehring is out, tore his achilles, which is too bad because he was finally moving pretty good last season after being slowed by a prior knee injury in the previous seasons
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 30, 2009, 09:16:47 PM
Shock:

I gotta say that if PSF's starting lineup is correct, I have to agree that that is not a team to strike fear in the opponents, and I think the other 8 teams will be looking to tee off on UPS this year to make up for all the beating they got over the last 3-4 years.  If Lunt said they will be pretty tough, what does that mean?  Similar to last year or like LC and Lin last year, good enough to make the playoffs with no real hope of winning the post-season tournament.  I see it like PSF, probably close to a .500 year.  A couple of good players added to that group, though, might make them a force again.

NWCer:

You might be right about a log jam around .500.  Taking GF, PLU and Wil out of the group, you have 6 teams that could beat up on each other.  I have a feeling, though,  Whitw will probably reload and be the strong favorite this year.  That leaves 5 teams fighting for the final three spots, and that could be the interesting part of the season.  .500 should put you in the middle of the pack, and 4th place will get you into the playoffs, probably at 9-7 or 8-8 with maybe a tiebreaker to take the last seed.  Maybe that is a good reason they should go back to 3 teams for the playoffs.  A .500 team should not be in the playoffs.

Looking forward to it!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 30, 2009, 09:33:12 PM
I can see what you're saying TMT about an 8-8 team should not be in a playoff.  Why should a 14-2 league champ have to play an 8-8 team in a conf tourney?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on October 01, 2009, 01:42:39 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on September 29, 2009, 11:34:34 PM
but they lost a lot in Olson and Weber, and maybe McCollum graduating.  They will be hard to replace

Jon Weber has another year. I do not see Linfield missing a beat as long as the new guys gel well. They got the point guard you mentioned and grabbed a couple of really long athletic players and I saw Tesoro recently and he looks like he will pick up right where he left off.

Quote from: TryMeTeam on September 29, 2009, 11:34:34 PM
So I have, in OR and in order, LC, PU and LIn tied with the tiebreaker going to Lin, Wil, and GF. 

How is LC gonna keep pace in Oregon after losing two of their top scorers and Kollasch quite possibly not being at full strength for maybe the whole year? Do they have some amazing recruits coming in?

Quote from: NWCer on September 30, 2009, 09:33:12 PM
I can see what you're saying TMT about an 8-8 team should not be in a playoff.  Why should a 14-2 league champ have to play an 8-8 team in a conf tourney?

I know this is not big time Division 1, but Syracuse a few years back was the 8th team in the big east tournament and ended up winning it. So why not have to play an 8-8 team, if you are that much better than them then you will take care of business.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 01, 2009, 11:54:16 AM
FC:

I just went by the roster on their website where it say Weber was a "Sr/Sr".  Tesoro is a beast, and if Weber is back with good recruits, I would have to rank them higher.  If Kollasch is back, I think LC will top them.  If not, and with Weber back, I would have to go with Lin.  Historically, LC has done better than Lin, so I went with them.  I have heard their recruits are pretty good.

Your qualifier says it all:  This is not DI.  The fourth seed (had there been one for more years than just last year) would not have upset any of the top seeds in the tournament over the last, say 5, years.  I just don't see it happening ever (okay, I said ever, and I might be wrong once every so often, but probably 99% right).  A .500 team loses to some lower echelon teams, or they lose to all the top teams and beat all the bottom teams.  Either way, it does not paint a rosy picture for an upset at the home court of the league champion for a very important game.  It could happen, but if I say it won't, you won't be saying I told you so very often.

It just seems like a waste of time and money.





Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 01, 2009, 01:51:53 PM
From the Linfield Site:

Jon Weber
SPORT    Men's Basketball 2008-2009
YEAR    Senior
ELIGIBILITY    Senior
HEIGHT    5-11
WEIGHT    175
HOMETOWN    Redmond, Wash.
PREV. SCHOOL    Eastlake
MAJOR(S)    


BIOGRAPHY
Point-guard mentality...Wildcats most improved player since last season...able to orchestrate the offense...capable scorer when needed...two-year letterwinner...voted Wildcats most improved player as a sophomore in 2006-07...averaged 5.2 points, 2.8 assists, and 2.2 rebounds...rookie of the year and most valuable player for the Linfield junior varsity squad in 2005-06...majoring in psychology...attended Concordia University in Irvine, Calif., before transferring to Linfield...lettered twice in basketball at Eastlake High School in Samammish, Wash....named Wolves' best defensive player and most valuable player...led the KingCo Conference in steals.

   I think this means his eligibility is done, I'm pretty sure junior varsity counts as a year of eligibility at the Division III level. 

   I remember seeing Tesoro play at Pacific last year, I was very impressed, really fast with the ball, played hard, was fun to watch.

  You seem to know the league very well TMT, I need to get to more than several Pacific home games this year to take in more, so with your knowledge what is your ranking 1 thru 9?  Or is it to early to throw out predictions?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on October 01, 2009, 02:44:04 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 01, 2009, 01:51:53 PM
Brookie of the year and most valuable player for the Linfield junior varsity squad in 2005-06

I can see how this information would lead you to believe Weber is done, but it is wrong. He did not play at Linfield in 05-06, he was going to school in California and every time I go down to Linfield to play ball he is playing with the top varsity team. Would not make sense to have him playing with them instead of the alumni team if he is not eligible this year.

TMT:
In 1999 the standings before conference playoffs were: 1st - LC, 2nd - Pac, 3rd - Lin, 4th - Will.  Willamette beat LC and Linfield beat Pacific in the first round with Willamette over Linfield in the conference championship. The only playoff team that Willamette had beaten in the regular season was Linfield. That's why they play the games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 01, 2009, 07:04:58 PM
NWCer:

I wouldn't say I know the league all that well, but I am a stat guy and get to as many games as I can in the OR area.  It is not too hard since there are 5 schools within 40 miles of my home in Beaverton and 4 within 25 miles.  Keep in mind a lot of what I print is opinion and speculation.  But I have watched this league for a long time.

So, you want me to go first this year.  Okay, I'll give it a try, but I might want to redo it after a couple of games to get the new guys into the mix.

1st -  Whitworth - Nakamura is a huge loss, and Sellereit and Jurich are big losses, but they just keep on reloading.  Riley and Montgomery will provide the leadership it takes to stay on top.

2nd - Whitman -  They were a player or two away from being a playoff contender last year, and if you read between the inflated lines, they may have those players this year.  Shaw is another beast in this league and Faidley will be a loss, but I think he will be replaced with other good talent.

3rd - LC -  There are some ifs here, but you have to make some guesses along the way.  Kollasch has to come back full strength and their bigs have to be productive.  I heard yesterday they got a guard that UPS, Whitw and Whitm were all after.  They could easily finish as low as 6th too.

4th - Lin - I have to go with another OR school because I am tired of UPS beating up on all of the OR schools over the last several years.  Tesoro and Wiser will tough to stop, and if Weber is back, that might put them in the playoffs again.  McCollum has another year of eligibility and he would make them very tough inside.  And they always play their tails off!

5th - UPS - Okay, they will probably finish higher than 5th, but I just can't do it.  They will be tough, but beatable I think.  Obviously, losing F/W/K will be huge and I just don't think they can replace them with Heyman/Koach/Boyce.  Boyce will be the target of every defense, and the others will have to step up to get them into the playoffs.

6th - Pac - (sorry NWCer, I know you want a higher prediction!)  The Bartletts will be tough and will take them a long way, but I don't see other all-league players to support them.  Gaulton may help, but other than that, they will need help from the new guys to make them a top tier team.  I could happen!

7th - PLU - They always are tough.  I just noticed Stackhouse is missing from this years' roster.  That is a big loss, but they have some players who could produce and provide for a higher finish:  McTaggert, Smith and Bull.  But I just don't see them finishing higher than this.

8th - Wil - They lost so much last year with only Mitchell back with any major playing time.  I like Kunke, but I don't see him as a big scorer.  And speaking of big, they got a lot smaller with the incoming class.  Add a new coach to that mix, and you have an 8th place team.

9th - GF -  I don't have a roster to refer to, so it will have to be "I think".  I think they lost a couple of seniors.  Martin was tough, but sort of unathletic.  I think Atwater and Stockner graduated.  I just don't see them doing too well this year.

Sorry, too long!    
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 01, 2009, 07:21:38 PM
Sounds solid TMT, Whitman at 2nd is tuff to see, but who knows...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 01, 2009, 08:01:07 PM
I'm pretty sure those 3 guys you mentioned from Fox were all juniors last year....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 04, 2009, 12:51:35 AM
Okay, NWCer!

I have been waiting for 2 days, now it is your turn. 

Predictions, please
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 04, 2009, 02:05:05 AM
OK, TMT, here you go....  With the disclaimer that I'm going on what I've heard on this board and that I may change prior to conference play, or even non-conference play starting because you have to see who the new guys are and what they can do, so this is NOT my FINAL answer!!!  So consider it a "soft" prediction....

Whitworth  12-4
Linfield  11-5
UPS 10-6
LC 9-7
Pac 9-7
Whitman 8-8
Willamette 6-10
PLU 4-12
Fox 3-13

Let the debates begin....  Let's get this board jumpin!
Title: five best frosh in the NWC last year?
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on October 07, 2009, 10:21:56 PM
I was thinking about the recent history of the UPS program and could think of relatively few frosh who played significant roles.  They've been loaded with upperclass talent for years, so it's understandable.  (For Logger fans, the only names over the last several years I could come up with were Medved and Heyman, Shelton was a factor last year).

This led me to the question:  who were the top five freshman in the NWC last year? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 07, 2009, 11:43:36 PM
Great question PS Fan....  You have to say Heyman as an all leaguer, Shaw, and the Hollins kid from LC.  The 4th would have to be Stackhouse from PLU, and the 5th probably Edwards from LC.  Wow TMT, maybe I do know a bit more about the league than I thought!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 08, 2009, 11:53:50 AM
You da man!!!!!!!!!!

Good choices.  The only other two I could come up with are Jury from PacU and Conti from PLU.  But I don't think I would move either one into your top five.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on October 08, 2009, 04:04:40 PM
I think NWCer had it about right.  I thought Heyman was terrific, but not featured on a great Loggers team that did not need him to flash. The most impressive frosh I saw play against the Loggers was Stackhouse from PLU. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 13, 2009, 06:14:27 PM
Boy I wish I had the chance to get over to Tacoma for the season-opening tournament at UPS.  Watching both the Pirates and the Loggers go head-to-head with Wisconsin Stevens Point on back to back nights would be fun.

I hope some of the Logger fans have a chance to give a full report on both nights.

Everything I've heard about this year's Pirate team is positive.  Looking forward to another great year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on October 16, 2009, 12:03:35 PM
For help with my D3hoops.com Preseason Top 25 ballot, can you guys help me sort out the 2010 NWC race?  Who do you see finishing 1st through 3rd?  What teams should be on the Top 25 radar?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 16, 2009, 06:54:12 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on October 16, 2009, 12:03:35 PM
For help with my D3hoops.com Preseason Top 25 ballot, can you guys help me sort out the 2010 NWC race?  Who do you see finishing 1st through 3rd?  What teams should be on the Top 25 radar?

Thanks!

Titan Q,

Based on recent success you have to consider UPS (obviously with a sight bias on my part  :D  ).  Yes, they lost a lot...but they are still the defending NWC champions.  I fully expect to them to contend this year and be one of the top 3 teams in the league.  It will be an interesting year for UPS, a lot of unknowns...sort of like your Titans in 06-07.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 16, 2009, 11:20:21 PM
Top Three Teams:
1. Whitworth (returns 1st Team All-NWC David Riley, probable All-NWC post Nate Montgomery).
2.  Linfield (returns stong post - Wiser - and scoring guard - Tesoro).
3.  Puget Sound (A. Boyce, Heyman).

Possible wildcards:
1. Whitman
2. Lewis & Clark
3. Pacific
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 16, 2009, 11:25:26 PM
I think I agree with you Pineconefan as far as that first 3 and second 3 or "wildcards"...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on October 21, 2009, 01:12:55 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on October 16, 2009, 12:03:35 PM
For help with my D3hoops.com Preseason Top 25 ballot, can you guys help me sort out the 2010 NWC race?  Who do you see finishing 1st through 3rd?  What teams should be on the Top 25 radar?

Thanks!

Titan Q,

Using recent history as an indicator, I'd rank my Bucs pretty high.  Objectively, the premier program in the NWC the last 3 years:

Year                             Conference Champ                                   Conference Tournament Winner
2006-07                       Whitworth/Lewis & Clark Tie                         Whitworth
2007-08                       Whitworth                                                    Whitworth
2007-09                       UPS                                                              Whitworth

   That said, I'd rank at least 2 and probably 3 teams from the conference in the top 25.  This conference beats each other up pretty badly during the season and then only gets 1 team in the tournament (except for last year).  Clearly, the NWC has more than 1 team worthy of getting into a field of 60 or so teams come March.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 21, 2009, 08:57:23 PM
Both UPS and WW are in the Preseason Top 25...nice!  Surprised that UPS was #18, I thought they would be more around #22 or #23.  Must be that prestige  :)   Now we got to earn that ranking!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 22, 2009, 12:25:53 AM
Wis Steven's Point is traveling back to Memorial Fieldhouse for the fist time since the sweet 16 in 05.  UPS ran in to a juggernaut in UWSP in the sweet 16 in 05 & 06...going on to win the national championship both years.  Those were 2 of the toughest UPS teams I have ever seen.  A combined 7 losses in about 54 games, with 2 of those 7 coming at the hands UWSP.  Boy, UWSP had a heck of a team.  But enough history  :D I would love for the Logs to finally get some revenge this time around!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on October 22, 2009, 12:21:46 PM
LS,

Point graduated three four year starters and one additional senior who started half the year but was saddled with an injury.  Their leading scorer is back, but they had a very balanced attack with all 5 starters averaging at least 9.9 pts per game.  One of the things that Point has always done well is take care of the basketball... this (at least in the last 4 or 5 years) is due to a bit of a change in style of play.  The team routinely has been in the top 5 every year in team assist to TO ratio at about 1.5:1 and has also been in the top 5 of fewest TO's per game (hovering around or under 10 per game).  The graduating seniors were a large part of this (last year, the 3 4 year starters combined for 248 assists to just 132 TO's... a 1.9:1 ratio).

Point hasn't had the influx if big inside players, so they've been much more guard oriented (graduated senior Pete Rortvedt broke Nick Bennett's season 3 point record as a sophomore with 95 and shattered Bennett's career 3 point record (had been 232, Rortvedt had 309) and he also currently holds the conference record for made threes in a career.

And while it seems like the well may have run dry with those guys leaving, it certainly isn't.  Last year's leading scorer returns and Point also will have Louis Hurd for the whole year (he was hobbled early on last year with a foot injury and missed the first 8 or so games).  They also had some kids stepping up throughout the year who are ready for breakout years.

I wish I could make it out to Tacoma for those games...!  They should be very interesting to watch and they should be a great barometer on where these teams are!

What do UPS and Whitworth have coming back?  Is UPS still playing their high octane style?  And what style does Whitworth play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 22, 2009, 11:33:35 PM
Point,

I try to do a little write up on UPS this weekend
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on October 26, 2009, 01:33:52 AM
Ouch, just thinking about Stevens Point reminds me of the tournament game they played here.  UWSP just dismantled a great, great Loggers team.  They were disciplined and careful with the ball against a fast, powerful pressing team. And it helped to be tall.  :)

Point, I think that this is a down year for Puget Sound.  The Loggers just graduated the three best players in the NWC and there's plenty of talent but lots of question marks.  This is unlikely to be one of the stronger Puget Sound teams of the past 5 or 6 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on October 26, 2009, 03:10:52 PM
I think the game should be very interesting for Point too.  Guys need to step up and play roles they haven't played before on this level.  I think Point has the personel to do it... but seeing as the game is so early, things may not have figured themselves out by that point.  And a big contributor (Jared Jenkins) is still on the gridiron (having another all-conference, if not all american year)... depending what happens next weekend against UW Whitewater, he may be playing football for more than the three remaining weeks of the regular season.  One loss in conference, though, and Point's done, they likely won't get an at-large bid to the playoffs.

I'm wondering a bit about Whitworth.  They may provide some problems for the Pointers.  They seem to be on quite  a roll of late in the NWC... and Point actually plays them first.  I always am a bit concerned for any first-game-of-the-year... (though Point hasn't dropped an opener since the 1995-96 season, when they lost to Teikyo-Marycrest, a now defunct NAIA school in Iowa, before Coach Bennett came to Point), even moreso when they lose the amount of production AND playing experience that they lost from this past season...

But, as I said, I think they've got the personel to be really good again this year.  Coach Semling has brought in key guys to fill some holes... but it may take some time for the right guys to be slotted in the right spaces.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 26, 2009, 05:20:14 PM
Point:

It sounds like all three teams are in the same boat.  Whitworth lost some keys players last year and will have to retool, but they do that better than any team in the NWC.  UPS also lost huge with, as PSF said the 3 best players in the league (probably a stretch, but not a huge one), and they will be well down from last year. 

Early is the best time to get these teams.  Whitworth has lost in preleague several times over the last several years, games they just don't lose once they get rolling.  UPS will have to have several players step up to fill in the holes the Fab-3 left, and that may be too much to ask early on. 

the rest of the NWC board:

Biddy said he has heard good things coming from LC practices and got word from Linfield that they are looking tough.   My preseason predictions are looking better!  Where are the rest of the board's predictions?  Come on now, anyone can do it after the games begin.  Get yours in now.

Nice to get two teams into the top 25, and more importantly, a little respect for the NWC.  With UPS losing so much, I don't see them staying there long.  It looks like their success over the last couple of years got them there.  Why do I say that?

I looked at their schedule and it is pretty daunting.  They may have trouble going into the season at .500 with 3 Wisconsin schools, two of them in WI and the toughest one at home, St Martins looking for some payback, an always tough Warner Pac game, and a strong Evergreen St, all looking to take down a top 25 team. 

Their roster is interesting, too.  Maybe more additions to it are to come, but right now there are 14 players, 5 of which are freshman, 5 sophmores and 4 seniors with no juniors.  That is a young team!  They can start 5 who had double digit minutes last year, but only 5, and only one (Boyce) can be considered a pre-season first team all-conference pick.  That means they will rely heavily on FR and SO who have little or no playing experience.  Lunt has his work cut out for him. 

UPS may be the surprise team of the league, and they will be if they can contend with their young team, but I see the surprises coming elsewhere, from former title contender in LC, a perennial middle of the pack team in Linfield and a year after year lower tier team in Whitman. 

So, practices have been going on for almost two weeks now, and nothing.  What it the word out there?

Let the games begin!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 26, 2009, 06:04:43 PM
TMT, what's the good things he heard from LC's practices?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 27, 2009, 11:04:04 AM
NWCer:

He said the bigs are going to provide an inside presence that LC has not had in awhile replacing Bergren (really a guard) and Pappenfuss (a finesse small forward) with strength and inside play.  That will be a big change right there.  Kollasch apparently is mostly back and participating in all practices.  And the new guard (didn't get his name, Jerry I think) recruited heavily by UPS, Whitworth and Whitman, is going to be very good in this league.

Wish I had more, but that is all he had.  I can hardly wait to get a look at LC, Linfield, UPS and Whitworth to see what they look like.   I might venture into WA to see those early season weekend games with Whitworth and UPS at UPS.

I kind of thought I might get more of a reaction to my "attack" on UPS.  Maybe it is still being composed.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: B Hoops on October 27, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
OK-I will give it a shot! My prediction in order for the NWC Mens B-Ball Season.

            1. Whitworth University--Their Coach can flat out can recruit and is  excellent with game preparation. There won't be a Team in the NWC who is better conditioned or who will play a tougher pre-season schedule in preparation for the demanding NWC conference schedule.
            2. Linfield--with their talent and a good season last year I feel like they will be there at the end. They could be in the number one spot if they can prevent losing games they should win and have a successful trip to the Whits.  They also provide a very tough match-up for teams in the conference.
            3. UPS--I think with their system and Coach they will retool quicker than most think and be in the top 3 at the end.Their system breeds wins and is always tough for opponents to compete with for 40 minutes.
            4. LC--very talented and should place higher but haven't proved they can hold it together and survive down the stretch in the very tough NWC.. Tend to fade down the stretch of a season and really have struggled in closing games against more disciplined teams in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 27, 2009, 08:11:37 PM
BHoops:

Do you have a 5 thru 9?  And will it be different than NCWer's picks since your top 4 are the same as his?  If you were going to copy someone, it should have been mine.  :)

Have to take exception with one point though.  This is the first year in a long time that Whitworth hasn't scheduled CalTech, and sometimes twice.  And they play S. Cruz twice.  Any preleague schedule that includes CalTech is not a "tougher than anyone else" schedule.  LC, Linfield, and Willamette almost always have a DI on their schedule (LC has two this year although one is after the season ends) and UPS plays Evergreen State and Warner Pacific every year along with 3 WI schools this year (although Whitworth has the same this year).    Linfield has two DI's this year too, playing Portland and Portland State, and along with Evergreen State and Warner Pac, they may have the toughest preleague schedule in the conference.  But the rest of your points are good ones.

Anyone:

Has Weber been at Linfield practices?  I know he was indicated to be a Junior last year by someone although the website said he was a senior.  They don't have their roster posted yet.

NWCer:

What do you hear from Pac?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 28, 2009, 12:39:44 AM
TMT, I'm on it!  Let me see what I can find out, haven't heard anything since practice started... 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on October 28, 2009, 01:02:41 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on October 27, 2009, 08:11:37 PM
BHoops:
Has Weber been at Linfield practices?  I know he was indicated to be a Junior last year by someone although the website said he was a senior.  They don't have their roster posted yet.

I answered this a while back, but maybe you missed it. Last years roster is wrong, he was a senior academically, but not eligibility wise. He never played at Concordia in Cali and played 1 year of JV and 2 years of varsity at Linfield. He was playing with the Varsity level players in open gyms and I asked him myself just to make sure I was correct.... he is a Senior THIS year. The sports information director at Linfield, who also runs the website, is too busy with Linfield football year around to make sure the information is correct.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on October 28, 2009, 02:07:53 AM
Hi again everyone!

Thought I'd take a break from football coverage on the bye week to bring you some news from Salem, though I wish it were more positive.  Cam Mitchell is out with a broken wrist.  Just a freak fall at practice.  No word yet on when he'll be ready. :-[

On the good side, Gordie was inducted into the Willamette Hall of Fame last Saturday. The link below has more details.  From everything I've heard, it was a great ceremony.  I can say that it was pretty special when he led the students in the "Ooh Aah Bearcats!" chant during the football game.

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/article/2009/10/hall_of_fame_focus_gordie_james.xml
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 28, 2009, 07:58:27 AM
Former:

Yeah, you are the one I was referring to.  I really like Weber and I think Linfield will be a much better team with him back.  No offense, but I was just looking for verification that he actually was in practice now.  All sorts of rumors (isn't that what a lot of this board is all about, rumors) fly around.  If he is sighted at practice or their roster is posted, that would seal the deal.  I guess the SID would be pretty busy this time of year with the year the Cats are having.  I spoke with the GF coach the other day, and he said he thought Weber had graduated, too.  But you probably have it right.


He also said practice is going well with most of his team (GF) returning.  They did lose significant team members in Strutz and Ahn, but he liked their recruiting class (no specifics there) and thought they will be much better this year.

When it rains, it pours, especially in OR.  An already depleted Wil team with graduation becomes a ton younger with Mitchell out.  Press, right wrist or left?  Not that it matters a whole lot, but if it is his shooting wrist, that will delay his return even more.  Isn't that a 4-6 weeks injury?  He should be ready to go come the start of league, but he will miss the chemistry pre-league games would have developed.  Maybe a blessing though in that the young players will be relied on more heavily early on and could step up their development. 

Not good news for rookie coach Ione.  Tough way to come out of the blocks in the NWC race.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on October 28, 2009, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on October 28, 2009, 07:58:27 AM
When it rains, it pours, especially in OR.  An already depleted Wil team with graduation becomes a ton younger with Mitchell out.  Press, right wrist or left?  Not that it matters a whole lot, but if it is his shooting wrist, that will delay his return even more.  Isn't that a 4-6 weeks injury?  He should be ready to go come the start of league, but he will miss the chemistry pre-league games would have developed.  Maybe a blessing though in that the young players will be relied on more heavily early on and could step up their development. 

Not good news for rookie coach Ione.  Tough way to come out of the blocks in the NWC race.

Left wrist, and Cam's right handed.  The length of time out depends on the severity of the break.  I broke mine a couple of years ago - really bad - and was out five weeks.  As long as Cam doesn't rush it, I'd guess he'll be back at full speed by Christmas.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 28, 2009, 04:40:53 PM
Ok, TMT, here's what I found out, info not as easy to get without my guy assisting there this year, had to go by what he heard and what another alum heard.....

So far so good with health, and there's some depth.....  The Bartletts are good and ready to go, I guess they really like their incoming class, the frosh from Sherwood and the transfer post guy will be factors, and Jury has improved..... 

Hope good health is with my Boxers this year.

Looking forward to the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 29, 2009, 11:21:32 PM
Quote from: B Hoops on October 27, 2009, 04:14:40 PMThere won't be a Team in the NWC who is better conditioned or who will play a tougher pre-season schedule in preparation for the demanding NWC conference schedule.

Non-conference schedule, you mean, not preseason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 30, 2009, 12:44:42 AM
Just when you think Greg is not listening, and you haven't heard from him in a long while.....

Where are all of the Whitworth fans?  What is the word from the dome? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 30, 2009, 12:52:38 AM
Don't know where the Whitworth fans are TMT but their team has been picked to dominate......

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2009-10/news/poll

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on October 30, 2009, 04:28:13 AM
Kind of dumbfounded by the UPS in second place preseason. I realize that they have some tradition of being in the top spots in the last several years, I get that.
But they lost so much that I think UPS fighting for a 4th spot would be a successful season. Its obviously a rebuilding year on a large scale, nothing that has been done in recent years for them. No returning big men, grabbing rebounds and playing against teams with effective posts could be a huge problem for them. I would have to see it to believe it for me to buy UPS in second. My fighting for a 4th spot comment was no knock on them, I think it would be a hell of a season for them If they were able to place 4th. Wonder who that one first place vote for UPS was from? Coach Lunt perhaps?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on October 30, 2009, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: formercat on October 30, 2009, 04:28:13 AM
Kind of dumbfounded by the UPS in second place preseason. I realize that they have some tradition of being in the top spots in the last several years, I get that.
But they lost so much that I think UPS fighting for a 4th spot would be a successful season. Its obviously a rebuilding year on a large scale, nothing that has been done in recent years for them. No returning big men, grabbing rebounds and playing against teams with effective posts could be a huge problem for them. I would have to see it to believe it for me to buy UPS in second. My fighting for a 4th spot comment was no knock on them, I think it would be a hell of a season for them If they were able to place 4th. Wonder who that one first place vote for UPS was from? Coach Lunt perhaps?


I am going to defend Coach Lunt for that claim.  There is no chance that he voted for his own team...he has way more class then that.  The way it went down was probably Lunt voted for WW, obviously, they are going to be real good this year.  The first place for UPS was most likely from Hayford...If Gordie was still coaching then I would have guessed him.  There are only a few coches out there that would actually vote their own team first.

And UPS will definately be finishing higher than 4th...I full expect them to be competeing with WW this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on October 30, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
Havent talked to lunt in a while, but last time i did he was pretty high on how the loggers were looking. if he legitimately think his loggers can challenge for a title i have no problem with him voting for ups to get 1st place.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 02, 2009, 12:50:12 AM
What's everyone think of the preseason poll?  Seems like most everyone's  predictions were pretty close, except for TMT pickin' the Missionaries 2nd...

Logshow, what's good?!  Are your Loggers ready to defend their title?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 02, 2009, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2009, 12:52:38 AM
Don't know where the Whitworth fans are TMT but their team has been picked to dominate......

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2009-10/news/poll



We are out here, silently waiting the games to begin.

I have word from an inside source (not a coach or player) that the Bucs should be a Final Four team ! ! !  I would love a trip to VA ! ! !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 02, 2009, 10:22:13 PM
Easy there 89 -

I like the Pirates' chances to have a good/great season too.  But "should" be a final four team?  The season hasn't even starter yet.  The only team that anyone can say "should" be a final four team at this point is probably WashU.

But I like your enthusiasm!   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 02, 2009, 11:45:03 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 02, 2009, 10:22:13 PM
Easy there 89 -

I like the Pirates' chances to have a good/great season too.  But "should" be a final four team?  The season hasn't even starter yet.  The only team that anyone can say "should" be a final four team at this point is probably WashU.

But I like your enthusiasm!   ;D

Just quoting my source, thats all.  The Alumni game next week will be my first chance to see them in action, although certainly not a indication of how they will stack up against real teams...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 03, 2009, 04:10:40 AM
To get to the final four you have to get out of the West Region.  Last year, 7 of the top 8 teams in the nation were in the west. Getting to the final four from the west goes through Wash U.  A team in the west can be a final four quality team and not make it past the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 03, 2009, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 03, 2009, 04:10:40 AM
To get to the final four you have to get out of the West Region.  Last year, 7 of the top 8 teams in the nation were in the west. Getting to the final four from the west goes through Wash U.  A team in the west can be a final four quality team and not make it past the Sweet 16.

Midwest/West sectional, actually, not West Region. The Midwest Region contributed several of the strong teams to that quadrant of the bracket (Wash U, Wheaton, Elmhurst, and Lawrence). The top teams from the West Region in that quadrant were UWSP, UW-Platteville, St. Thomas, and Puget Sound. Several really, really good teams in that quadrant got knocked out before the sectionals because that part of the bracket was so overloaded.

Almost without exception, the Midwest and West regions are annually paired together in the sectionals for geographical reasons -- as most of us are aware, the NCAA attempts to run D3 tourneys as cheaply as possible -- so your premise that Whitworth (or any other NWC champ) would have to run a similar gauntlet this coming March thru the Midwest/West sectional is correct.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 05, 2009, 01:22:38 PM
Ok, Formercat, now I can give you the kudos you deserve!  Just checked out the Linfield website, and Weber is on the just posted roster, as a senior.  You had the facts right!

Willamette only losing by 39 to BSU was kind of a surprise to me.  I would have guessed closer to 60 with Mitchell out.  Maybe, just maybe, we (meaning I) have not given them enough respect.  We should see more about them near the middle of this month when the games begin.  Certainly looking forward to that!

89, I realize you are just the messenger, but you need to be careful what you write.  Don't get me wrong, Whitworth will be good and they deserve the preseason notice they have gotten.  But even if the two additions are very good, that still doesn't equal a final 4 team! 

And they will have to get through an improved NWC.  Instead of a 2-team dogfight between Whitworth and UPS, I see three much improved teams in Linfield, LC and Whitman (am I the only one who thinks Whitman will be very good this year?), and that doesn't even consider UPS, who will be good if not very good, all considerable challenges to Whitworth.  I don't see the other 3 teams being factors in the title hunt, but Whitworth will have to keep their level of play up to get by all of those teams.  This might be one of the more balanced years in a long time.

Still time to get your preseason predictions in yet.  Anyone can do it after the pre-season,...er "non-conference" games start.  I am keeping track of the predictions to see how we do.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 05, 2009, 02:41:30 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 05, 2009, 01:22:38 PM
Ok, Formercat, now I can give you the kudos you deserve!  Just checked out the Linfield website, and Weber is on the just posted roster, as a senior.  You had the facts right!

Did you not believe me when I said I asked Weber himself?    ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 05, 2009, 04:19:51 PM
Sorry, Cat, I missed that part of your post. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 05, 2009, 08:57:27 PM
NWCer! 

I have been MIA...hopefullyI can start making regular posts on here again.  I am thinking the UPS should be pretty tough, but they are going to have to have lots of new players step up.  Clearly they are untested...but will be thrown right into the fire facing UWSP.  I am expecting big things from Austin Boyce...he will be the go to guy.  This is a year for Lunt to prove he can consistently win in the NWC.  And I think he is definately up to the challenge. 

Looking forward to a great year of hoop in the NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 05, 2009, 10:55:00 PM
TMT-

I watched a little of the BSU game, and when the Bearcats were able to run their offense, they actually looked pretty good.  Lots of open jump shots that should come with time.  If Robert Wood doesn't go 1-10 ( :o), that game is even closer.  Our guards, however, need to take care of the freaking ball - I counted at least 20-25 BSU fastbreak points off steals at the top of the key.

But all things considered, not a bad start for a rookie coach and a young team missing its best player.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 06, 2009, 12:05:28 AM
Press:

You must have expected the guards to suffer at least a little bit if not a whole bunch.  A new crop of guards other than Kunke and against a DI school spells trouble.  The stats showed the starters for BSU didn't play very much, less than a half each and some were just over a quarter.  But I agree with you, not a bad showing for a young team.

I will look forward to the DIII games to get a better indication of how this year will go.  Two weeks to the first weekend of games!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 06, 2009, 09:02:47 PM
WW a final four team?  Jeez--this seems a bit premature, and not justified by what they have coming back from last season.  I will say that having seen three truly outstanding Puget Sound teams  not crack the final four, I'm hard pressed to believe that this year's WW team can pull it off.  Remember that last year's team was undefeated in the NWC and just couldn't hang with St. Thomas; the best Loggers team I can remember got spanked at home by Stevens Point. 

I'm still looking for some word on how the Logs look this fall, and am hoping that one of the posters more in the know than I am will give us some information! 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 06, 2009, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: Pugetsoundfan on November 06, 2009, 09:02:47 PM
WW a final four team?  Jeez--this seems a bit premature, and not justified by what they have coming back from last season.  I will say that having seen three truly outstanding Puget Sound teams  not crack the final four, I'm hard pressed to believe that this year's WW team can pull it off.  Remember that last year's team was undefeated in the NWC and just couldn't hang with St. Thomas; the best Loggers team I can remember got spanked at home by Stevens Point. 

I'm still looking for some word on how the Logs look this fall, and am hoping that one of the posters more in the know than I am will give us some information! 

Unless they reconfigure the brackets, ANY west or midwest region team will have a hard time making the Final Four - WashU!

Then with WIAC, CCIW, St. Thomas, etc., its a crap-shoot.

Last year the #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, and #7 ranked teams were all in the west/midwest quadrant of the tourney.  GREAT teams don't necessarily make the FF.  It may not be fair, but its d3! :D

[IMO, last year's midwest/west sectional WAS the Final Four - much closer games than in Salem.]
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 07, 2009, 02:30:33 AM
Whitworth will find out alot about itself with its non-conference schedule.  The Pirates get UWSP (at UPS), a potentially tough Pomona-Pitzer (at WashU), a possible game at WashU, and home games against UW-Stout and UWW.

Read the season preview.  It could be a really fun year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 07, 2009, 05:13:23 AM
wow WW with a potential game against WashU...would love to watch that.  I would really like to see Wallis play in person.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SofaKing on November 07, 2009, 01:08:34 PM
Whitworth may not lose a game all year. FYI
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 07, 2009, 04:29:51 PM
I gotta agree with PSFan.  UPS had a great run last year in conference, something that is extreme hard to do.  And there was more than a wisp of luck in doing it, too.  Not to take anything away from UPS, but it is just not done.

Sofa, Whitworth will not only lose a game, but in both non-conference and in league! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 07, 2009, 05:25:45 PM
Yes, we the WW fans are still here and apparently some new ones with bold predictions.  Like it!!

So yep...Hello all!  Looking forward to a great season.  16th ranking preseason sounds about right for the NWC preseason pick.  Hope to see a few teams have a strong preseason from NWC and fill up maybe 3 spots in the poll.

Gotta love this schedule for WW.  I am excited to see the UW games and maybe a quick trip to St Louis.

What I hear is that WW has a returning POTY and a newcomer who could be POTY...all I am saying...for now.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 08, 2009, 07:49:24 PM
Quote from: BearcatPress on November 05, 2009, 10:55:00 PM
TMT-

I watched a little of the BSU game, and when the Bearcats were able to run their offense, they actually looked pretty good.  Lots of open jump shots that should come with time.  If Robert Wood doesn't go 1-10 ( :o), that game is even closer.  Our guards, however, need to take care of the freaking ball - I counted at least 20-25 BSU fastbreak points off steals at the top of the key.

But all things considered, not a bad start for a rookie coach and a young team missing its best player.

BearcatPress,
WU was missing more than Cam in that game.  The guys from the football team haven't switched over to basketball yet.  Schottgen isn't just a great receiver on the FB team, he's a tremendous athlete in basketball as well.  There are others, too, that are still playing football.   That's the beauty of D3 sports -- you can play more than one sport.   Marcus Holmes continues to impress!

I thought it was gutsy to schedule against Boise State, but really didn't expect them to win it, did you?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 09, 2009, 01:29:29 PM
Gotta give some luv to LC, Linfield and PLU today. 

LC goes down to Oregon (as in U of) and loses by only 15 points?  That is ridiculous!  I know they were down by about 25 at the half and Oregon played everybody, but outscoring a DI by 10 points in the second half, WOW!  It looks like Kollasch is back.

Linfield goes to U of Portland and loses by 35, but shot 40% from the field and played even in the second half.  Wiser and Tesoro lead the team in double figures.

PLU goes to Seattle and takes a 28 point hit, but not too bad for for a first game.

Not bad showings, especially for LC, against DI's.   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 09, 2009, 01:50:15 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 09, 2009, 01:29:29 PM
Gotta give some luv to LC, Linfield and PLU today.  

LC goes down to Oregon (as in U of) and loses by only 15 points?  That is ridiculous!  I know they were down by about 25 at the half and Oregon played everybody, but outscoring a DI by 10 points in the second half, WOW!  It looks like Kollasch is back.

Linfield goes to U of Portland and loses by 35, but shot 40% from the field and played even in the second half.  Wiser and Tesoro lead the team in double figures.

PLU goes to Seattle and takes a 28 point hit, but not too bad for for a first game.

Not bad showings, especially for LC, against DI's.    



https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf5/654501.pdf?ATCLID=204829993&SPSID=4294&SPID=235&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=500

LC outscored them by 2 in the second half TMT according to the boxscore, nevertheless you are correct about giving luv, great for the conference the way they competed.  Kollasch's line definitely looks like he is back, and the Edwards kid sure looked aggressive, once again according to the boxscore.  Did you go to the game TMT?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 09, 2009, 11:21:50 PM
I don't know where I got LC outscoring U of O by 10 points in the second half!  Nothing gets by you!

No, I listened to some of the game and looked at the stats.  It would have been a good game to see, though.  I thought it would be a blow out and didn't want to waste the time and money on a Sunday night.

I am thinking about heading up to Tacoma next weekend to see the doubleheaders.  A NWC basketball dream weekend!  But it looks like I might have to work that weekend.  Anyone else making the trip?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 11, 2009, 04:11:29 AM
You can actually watch the game on Ducks TV if you go to the link titled "MBB vs Lewis and Clark" near the bottom of the recap. Pios ran a lot of high picks against Oregon's full court press, similar to the way they have responded against UPS's press the past few seasons.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 11, 2009, 09:07:08 AM
I saw that, Pio 20, and I started to watch it, but the screen was small, dark and hard to see, so I bailed.  Have you heard anything about this year's team?  If they did that well against Oregon, can they hang with the top teams in the NWC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 11, 2009, 04:18:53 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 07, 2009, 02:30:33 AM
Whitworth will find out alot about itself with its non-conference schedule.  The Pirates get UWSP (at UPS), a potentially tough Pomona-Pitzer (at WashU), a possible game at WashU, and home games against UW-Stout and UWW.

Read the season preview.  It could be a really fun year.

I can't speak for PP...

But regarding the WIAC teams...  Though they were picked to win the conference and are slated #10 in the country, this UWSP team is kind of a "wait and see" sort of team that has great potential but has to replace 3 4-year starters including their PG and the conference all-time leader in 3 pointers.  They will get better as the year goes on because of their relative youth (just two seniors) and because a key contributor (Jared Jenkins) is having an All-American-type year on the grid iron.  All told, about 50% of Point's scoring is back from last year... but the team needs to figure out who on the floor will put the ball in the basket because they graduated all of their go-to guys AND the guy who distributed the ball for every year since the championship years.

Stout is the bottom feeder in the WIAC.  They won just two games last year and though they return a whole bunch, they were picked last again this year.  They've got 10 newcomers again this year and they're pretty small... don't have a player over 6'5", which is definitely going to hurt you in the WIAC.

Whitewater is picked 2nd in the WIAC this year.  This actually surprizes me... I thought Platteville would be #2, but Pville is actually #4, though they have seven seniors (they also have a new coach, though and lost quite a bit from graduation).  UWW also lost a decent amount from graduation, losing 3/5 starters like Point.  They're historically very athletic with a lot of kids from Milwaukee and they're good year in and year out.  Other than Point, WW has been the top team in the WIAC this decade.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 11, 2009, 05:08:42 PM
Thanks for the insight on the three Wisconsin schools PointSpecial.

Frankly we are just happy to get a chance to see the Pirates play a non-conference game at home (its been a few years) and having two teams from Wisconsin come it is really cool.

As for the Whitworth game with SP, it will be interesting to see how much of an advantage SP will have from playing a game before that weekend in Tacoma.  It is often of great benefit to work out the bugs.

I will get my first look at Whitworth on Friday when they play the alums.  I will report back more after that "game".
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 11, 2009, 05:43:16 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on November 11, 2009, 05:08:42 PM
...it will be interesting to see how much of an advantage SP will have from playing a game before that weekend in Tacoma.  It is often of great benefit to work out the bugs.

I absolutely agree... but I wish it was more of a cupcake.  Point is playing St. John from MN, who I heard was picked #2 (though I haven't seen it posted anywhere) in the MIAC this year behind St. Thomas, I believe. 

Point's got UST on the sked too... along with the rest of the WIAC teams, and Elmhurst, and Lawrence.  UST, Elmhurst, and LU all made the NCAA tournament last year too.  Yikes...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 11, 2009, 06:20:37 PM
To be honest, I really have no idea what to expect this season. It is basically a brand new team. Kollasch is the one significant returner, and even he missed a lot of last season. But he is definitely the star and captain. Hollins showed promise last season as a freshman and he should be a bigger part of the team this season. Tsukazaki has seen on and off playing time throughout his four years. Kyle Meeuwsen could be a wild card. Versatile junior who got increased PT late last season and could have a breakout year. Outside of that, I'm not sure what to expect. They definitely looked good in the Oregon game though. 
 
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 11, 2009, 09:07:08 AM
I saw that, Pio 20, and I started to watch it, but the screen was small, dark and hard to see, so I bailed.  Have you heard anything about this year's team?  If they did that well against Oregon, can they hang with the top teams in the NWC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 11, 2009, 08:25:16 PM
I understand the Loggers had a scrimmage at home last week against one of the local community colleges.  Did anyone see any of that?  Was wondering how the young team looked early.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Logsfan on November 11, 2009, 11:57:27 PM
PSFan I did see part of the scrimmage against Green River CC.  The Loggers backcourt is very fast and skilled. It appeared to me that the team will be deep in the backcourt, and i doubt that the pressing teams in the league will have much fun playing this UPS team. Boyce looked good and there was some very nice long range shooting. It looked to me like up front the team is very much a work in progress.  I left wondering whether the Logs can rebound enough and whether the bigger guys are ready to finish around the hoop.  Give'em one of the skilled bigs from recent years (McVey, Foster, A. Shelton) and I think the team would have an excellent chance to win the NWC.  It's obviously early and the guys are young, but my first look led me to think that maybe UPS is a little light up front.  Time will tell!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 12, 2009, 03:28:40 PM
Just got off the phone with my "biddy", and he said he talked to one of LC players.  He was congratulating the player on the Oregon game and the player said they had a scrimmage with Portland State a couple of weeks ago.  Although the player didn't know the exact score, he said they lost to the DI school by under 10 points.  Apparently PSU used all of their players, but a DI is a DI, even on the bench.  Not bad!

Pio, he had good things to say about Edwards.  Is he related to the Edwards from last year?  Have you heard anything about him?

Nothing else new.  Sounds like UPS and Whitw will have a chance against the Wisc schools if Point is right.

Getting close!!!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 12, 2009, 04:39:31 PM
Well, no games worth watching this year, I guess. Not one pre-season All-American West of Coffeyville among the four teams and honorable mention on the d3 site. A few on the first team West of Washington D.C.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on November 12, 2009, 11:09:26 PM
I am way dissapointed in UPS this year.

I wonder if the Logger fans emailed bridgeland and begged him to come back he would.  Did you see Whitman's recruiting class?  Easily the best in the conference.  And yes that is including the D1 transfer to Whitworth and Linfield.  I don't even think it's close. 

We are way young and inexperienced and unfortunatly I think everyone will see how Lunt was living off of Bridgelands outlandishly successful recruiting. 

I think we'll win most of our home games because of the atmosphere, but mark my word, as much as it pains me to say so, I think the Loggers finish 3rd or 4th this season.  We certainly won't be beating the heck out of Whitworth again... 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 13, 2009, 12:41:23 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on November 08, 2009, 07:49:24 PMBearcatPress,
WU was missing more than Cam in that game.  The guys from the football team haven't switched over to basketball yet.  Schottgen isn't just a great receiver on the FB team, he's a tremendous athlete in basketball as well.  There are others, too, that are still playing football.   That's the beauty of D3 sports -- you can play more than one sport.   Marcus Holmes continues to impress!

I thought it was gutsy to schedule against Boise State, but really didn't expect them to win it, did you?

Of course I didn't expect them to win.  We haven't played D-I teams the last couple of years, and it was interesting to see how we stacked up.  I was impressed we only lost by 39 and by how the offense looked when we were able to run our sets.

Come on, bbaddict - you know that I know better than most just how many of our guys are on the football team! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 13, 2009, 04:33:20 PM
Geez, Glassman, what did you see that led to this pessimism?  It's a young team and it hasn't played a game yet...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on November 13, 2009, 04:49:43 PM
Hey NWCer,

The Claremont Mudd Stags are coming up in week to play George Fox and Willamette. Any color on those two teams? Is Mitchell still hurt for Willamette? Whats the update on Fox?

As a frosh, we went up to Oregon and got pummeled by Fox and then threw away a game to Pacific. It seems like the Stags have a tough time playing after flights. Should be some good games up there though.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 13, 2009, 05:59:53 PM
Stag44, why downplay my Boxers victory!?  Willamette and George Fox were picked to tie for 7th place in conference this season.  With Mitchell out, a new coach, and early in the year, you are catching the Bearcats at the right time.  Fox returns an all conference guy in Stockner.  If I'm not mistaken your Stags are returning a lot of guys from a championship team.  No knock on any of NWC members, but you guys are playing, at the time, one of the most favorable back to backs in our conference that you can right now.  I'm hoping for NWC victories, nevertheless, good luck. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on November 13, 2009, 10:55:40 PM
Any other news on Willamette or Fox?

Quote from: NWCer on November 13, 2009, 05:59:53 PM
Stag44, why downplay my Boxers victory!?  Willamette and George Fox were picked to tie for 7th place in conference this season.  With Mitchell out, a new coach, and early in the year, you are catching the Bearcats at the right time.  Fox returns an all conference guy in Stockner.  If I'm not mistaken your Stags are returning a lot of guys from a championship team.  No knock on any of NWC members, but you guys are playing, at the time, one of the most favorable back to backs in our conference that you can right now.  I'm hoping for NWC victories, nevertheless, good luck. 

NWCer,

I was a part of that team that lost up in Pacific, and have to say it was one of the worst games we played that whole year. But, irregardless, your Boxers made ALL the plays down the stretch and in overtime and fully deserved to win that game!

The Stags return pretty much everything. I played with them all of them last year, and they should be extremely explosive this year.

I'll take two SCIAC wins vs NWC teams. haha. Theres no question after playing up @Whitworth last year, that the style of play and fan base in the NWC is much greater than the SCIAC, but I hope that this year with both conferences having teams in the top 25 and ORV, that we get some more love for the west coast in the D3 scene.

Also, I'm looking forward to the P-P Whitworth matchup @ Lopata in WashU. Should be a battle of the best of the NWC vs a contender in the SCIAC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 14, 2009, 12:02:05 AM
Stag44

Being a stat guy, you must be Teja.  Being the only game in town that night, I got to see you play Pac U, but I couldn't tell how you guys did having never seen you before.  Pac U did make all of the right plays down the stretch, though.

NWCer is right, your Stags are playing the right teams at the right time to get a couple of big road wins.  NWCer hit all the right points dead on.   I also noted your Stags are pretty short in the post position, and Fox may give you problems there.  If I remember right from the playoff game last year, you are pretty big and they may miss your size for the Fox game.  Fox's post player is pretty big and pretty good.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on November 14, 2009, 01:19:29 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 14, 2009, 12:02:05 AM
Stag44

Being a stat guy, you must be Teja.  Being the only game in town that night, I got to see you play Pac U, but I couldn't tell how you guys did having never seen you before.  Pac U did make all of the right plays down the stretch, though.


I am Tejas, and that was a tough game at Pac U.

Thanks for the info on Fox and their post play. We have Lacey returning, but are thing after that. Should be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I'll be in claremont tomorrow for our alumni game, so it should be nice to see all the guys and how they're playing
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 14, 2009, 01:13:09 PM
TGlass,

For a guy that claimed to be the Logs biggest supporter over the past few years, that is quite harsh criticism.  First off, Bridgeland is gone, and he is never comig back.  And I think everyone around UPS is fine with that.  I don't understand what you have against Lunt...he did just as much recuriting as Bridgeland did to get those guys at UPS and then developed them, and went 16-0 last year...you are telling me Lunt doesn't deserve credit?  UPS hasn't even played a game this year...how could you possibly be disappointed in them?  They haven't even played a conference game yet.  Maybe they will struggle a little bit this year, they lost a lot from last year.  But 4 years ago they lost a lot when McVey, Curtiss, Walker, and Buehler graduated...but UPS competed for the top in conference all year.  UPS will be fine, and will be competeing for a conference championship again this year.

So what some other schools got D1 transfers...but there is probably a reason why they are transfering...

Whitman pumps up their recruits like they are can't miss all-americans.  I'm sure they have talent...but at some point you have to come back to reality.  While at UPS did you never hear Antwan Williams was the best PG on the west coast as a freshman or Chase Curtiss was the best shooter west of the Mississippi, if not the nation?  That's how Brideland does it.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 14, 2009, 01:14:40 PM
More importantly UWSP is coming to town soon...can't wait to watch UPS in action.  Let's go Logs!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 14, 2009, 07:55:27 PM
caught a little of the loggers scrimmage, played your typical CC team, athletic, but not very skilled. GRCC tried to trap the loggers without much success, actually led to lots of open 3s, 38 to be exact. the loggers hit 19 of em. obviously they wont shoot that well every night, but ups might be pretty dangerous from the outside this season. hopefully levin can play by the law of averages and since he only seemed to hit about 20% last year he'll hit about 50% of em this year. Loggers had a thin lineup with only 9 or 10 guys healthy. Koach was out with a concussion, and two of the ups bigmen who are looking at getting good minutes this year were out, 1 with a stress fracture and the other at a funeral. So ups has some height, and their success really just depends how quick they mature.

Tglass im not sure why youre knocking lunt, he actually did most of the recruiting of that highly touted class that graduated last year. secondly ups hasnt even played a single game how can be disappointed? maybe youre getting confused with the football team who will score less points in their entire season than hoops team will score in a single game. take all the recruiting hype with a grain of salt, everybody wants you to think they have the best recruits in the country. brdigeland is the king of that.

making it through a season at ups is no joke. its not uncommon for 2-3 players to quit every year, but the guys who stick it out are some tough guys. Thats why ups has been so tough for the passed 6-7 years, they seem to lose a lot every year, but the guys that come back are tough.

if you wanna be disappointed, at least let them play a couple games first.

Logshow

you hit it right one the head with those quotes. haha

Start of the season just a few days away!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on November 14, 2009, 08:28:42 PM
No one loves Logger basketball more than me and I'm not afraid to say exactly how I feel about it.  That's why I put my real name and not "BonnerforLogs" or something as my SN.  

I love UPS basketball and tried hard to make it fun for the fans (despite the worst AD in the conference).  

This does not make me unrealistic about their abilities or the abilities of the other teams in the conference.  We all knew the day would come when we have to live with ONLY Lunt recruits.  If Lunt had more to do with the recruiting while Bridge was here than he would have continued to pull stellar players every year like Bridge did after he was gone.  Austin and Nadav are good, where is the rest of the Logger future?

In speaking with Lunt (several times) I like the man.  I think he has vastly improved his clock management and defensive coaching over the last two seasons. But anyone on this board could have run the team we had out last year and won the conference.  

When we graduated McVey and Curtiss, Antwan and Foster had already played a season of college basketball to be ready for the next season.  Unlike most teams, we play 9-11 players a game because of the press.  We are untested in this regard because the Sophs we had last year barely played and the feshman could not possibly be in shape enough for Logger basketball.  

I am afraid that the Logger dynasty is finally over.  I am afraid that all of those Whitworth fans who want to be our program from 03 - 09 (last year) have finally gotten there.  Although I would hate to have to cheer for David Riley.  

I hope I'm wrong.  I hope that all of the UPS recruits do fantasitically(despite one having a stress fracture) and we roll into the playoffs yet again.  

I hope that all the UPS cheerleaders on here are right.  But to say that this years losses is equal to any of the years in the past is just out and out false.  I'm sorry to hurt my own team's fans feelings. 

but I'm not a rah rah fan, I'm a realistic fan and I see UPS going a very different direction.  

South
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 15, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
The WW Alumni game last night was fun to watch...wished the score was a little closer (100 - 61). Avery can still hit from anywhere, Gunner can still get up and dunk, and the rest of the 'old guys' are always entertaining...

The new guys look good!  Loofburrow is genuine, Montgomery was big in little minutes, and Riley has a smooooth 3 as always.  They look deep everywhere, and will be fun to watch.

Taking the family to Tacoma this weekend for the games against the Pointers and the Banana Slugs (love their mascot)!  This will definitely be a GREAT start to the season!

Hope to see alot of Buc fans there!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 15, 2009, 12:18:51 AM
I gotta go with TGM on this one.  There has been a few quips on this board that have said pretty much what TGM has said in his last two posts.  

UPS will be down this year, and I am going to say, way down, and I think they will be hard pressed to finish fourth.  We all know how much they lost last year.  How many "5 star" recruits did they bring in this year?  Being the #1 assistant coach going out recruiting for a quality head coach is different than recruiting for yourself.  Bridgeland closed those deals in the past that Lunt worked, just like James did for Wally (?, can't remember his last name), Gaillard does for Foreman at LC, Hayford for his assistants at Whitworth, etc.  Without that quality head coach, a great recruiter can fall flat on his face when he takes over the reins.  

Like TGM said, any of us could have won the conference with what Lunt had last year. Lunt just got the benefit of a timely departure of Bridgeland to a DI program and have the Fab 3 for 3 years.  UPS can only put 5 players on the floor this year that have had any significant playing time last year.  That shouldn't get it done in such a complicated system.  

The coaches poll has them tied for 2nd with Linfield, but that is out of respect for what they did last year, as is their top 20 ranking from DIII hoops.  

I believed I had UPS 5th in my preseason ranking (okay, I know I did), and I still like them there.  My only revision at this point would be to put LC higher based on the "rumored" hanging with PSU in a scrimmage and the result in the Pit at U of O.  

TGM just said what a lot of us are thinking/fearing/wondering/hoping.  

Being disappointed is not the right word.  If you want to be disappointed, you could say that about the incoming class and the results of recruiting over the last year, but I really know nothing about them other than I haven't heard anything about them.  I think worried would be better, very worried.

89:

You mean the alumni won by almost 40?  Wow! I want to change my picks some more now. :)  I am envious of you making the trip to Tacoma.  Should be a lot of fun and highly informative.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 15, 2009, 01:56:08 AM
Logshow, what's good my man.

Listening to the back and forth from the Logger faithful, I understand both sides.  I think they will be good, but UPS's standard for "good" is a little different, can they live up to that?  That will be tuff.

Also hearing about Bridgeland's recruits, I jumped on their site and read their season preview, according to him they are ALL STEALS.  Who knows.  He does think this kid plays hard though, you think?  :)

Drew Raher, a 6-foot-3 forward, earned First-Team All-West Catholic League honors last season at San Francisco's St. Ignatius College Prep.

"In the last eight to 10 years, I haven't seen anyone play as hard as Drew does on a consistent basis," Bridgeland says. "You look at Quam and he has national-level quickness. You look at Peter and he can shoot it as well as anyone in Division III. Then you look at Drew and he plays so hard that it's a skill. He plays harder than anyone, and he plays for his teammates. He's a throwback.

Raher battled for 10 rebounds in 20 minutes on the court in a recent exhibition, Bridgeland says. "With our style of play benefitting the team that works the hardest, Drew sets the bar. There will be games when he'll blow up. He'll get 15 rebounds.

"All of our guys play hard, but Drew takes it to a whole new level. He works harder than any human alive today. He works so hard that it's a skill and a weapon. It's his gift from God. He goes 100 percent every possession, and he's totally selfless. He plays for his teammates."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 15, 2009, 02:33:51 AM
So wait...NWCer,

What you are really trying to say is...that kid plays hard?  I think that's what I am getting out of that quote.   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 15, 2009, 02:45:48 AM
In response to everyone claiming the Logger Dynasty is over in Titletown (Tacoma).  We are still the defending champs, we have still won the league 4 out of the past 6 years.  People are quick to write us off, they are tired of us winning, want to crown a new champ, or whatever.  But bottom line is we will be ready to play and compete this season.  I have complete confidence in Lunt and the job he is doing.  And Lunt can definately seal the deal on recruits...he got Nedav to come to UPS.  Word is that kid is going to have a heck of a year.

Which brings me to my last point...UPS plays hard.  I have never seen a team play as hard as them.  Everytime they go out there, they just play so hard.  Lol. That last bite was for you NWCer.  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 15, 2009, 03:08:42 AM
But Logshow, do they play as hard as any human alive today?  ;D  Is it their gift from God?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 15, 2009, 12:48:49 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 15, 2009, 12:18:51 AM

89:

You mean the alumni won by almost 40?  Wow! I want to change my picks some more now. :)  I am envious of you making the trip to Tacoma.  Should be a lot of fun and highly informative.


I wish the Alums had won, that would have really po'd Coach Hayford...not going to happen for awhile, they newbies are good !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 16, 2009, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: NWCer on November 15, 2009, 01:56:08 AM
Logshow, what's good my man.

Listening to the back and forth from the Logger faithful, I understand both sides.  I think they will be good, but UPS's standard for "good" is a little different, can they live up to that?  That will be tuff.

Also hearing about Bridgeland's recruits, I jumped on their site and read their season preview, according to him they are ALL STEALS.  Who knows.  He does think this kid plays hard though, you think?  :)

Drew Raher, a 6-foot-3 forward, earned First-Team All-West Catholic League honors last season at San Francisco's St. Ignatius College Prep.

"In the last eight to 10 years, I haven't seen anyone play as hard as Drew does on a consistent basis," Bridgeland says. "You look at Quam and he has national-level quickness. You look at Peter and he can shoot it as well as anyone in Division III. Then you look at Drew and he plays so hard that it's a skill. He plays harder than anyone, and he plays for his teammates. He's a throwback.

Raher battled for 10 rebounds in 20 minutes on the court in a recent exhibition, Bridgeland says. "With our style of play benefitting the team that works the hardest, Drew sets the bar. There will be games when he'll blow up. He'll get 15 rebounds.

"All of our guys play hard, but Drew takes it to a whole new level. He works harder than any human alive today. He works so hard that it's a skill and a weapon. It's his gift from God. He goes 100 percent every possession, and he's totally selfless. He plays for his teammates."


haha, kinda sounds like a used car salesman trying really hard to sell a car that is decent, but definitely isnt the best on the lot. someone better ask for the carfax.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 16, 2009, 02:19:56 AM
WW tips it at 6 Friday against Point, potential @ Wash U., 2 more WIAC's before New Years Day.  Looks like WW is scheduling to gear up for a deep run in postseason and in addition bring some national attention and respect to the NWC.  Victories in all of those games could bring some top 3? rankings. 

Beating the alum by 40 means they played as a team.  WW has some good newcomers and that one D1 transfer player is just the start.  Beals will impress as will a couple of freshmen.  Basically WW is 10 deep, when was the last time you could say that?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 16, 2009, 03:05:00 PM
89 Pirate:
It's good to hear that Gunner can still fly. I played with him in a tournament in Canada long ago and he cut baseline for an alley oop, but the passer threw the ball as a regular chest pass so Gunner reached down below his knees in the air and did a reverse dunk. Possibly still the best dunk I have ever seen in person. Best part about him is he did not look like a leaper, he got out of his truck with cowboy boots and hat on, wranglers and a flannel shirt... doesn't exactly say off the charts vertical at first sight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 17, 2009, 04:54:00 PM
I work harder at composing Posting Up messages than any human alive today. I work so hard at composing Posting Up messages that it's a skill and a weapon. It's my gift from God.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 17, 2009, 05:11:18 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 17, 2009, 04:54:00 PM
I work harder at composing Posting Up messages than any human alive today. I work so hard at composing Posting Up messages that it's a skill and a weapon. It's my gift from God.

Haha!

I really should let this go, Bridgeland's track record as a coach and recruiter speaks for itself, he's very good, much respect.  But according to this season preview they have

1)  Possibly a future president - "Jordan's leadership is off the charts. He could be a future president -– that's how talented he is"

2) A machine who's up at 6:30 AM and is national level Division II player - "When I was watching and recruiting Peter last summer, I wrote in my notes that he was a national-level Division II player," Bridgeland says. "That's exactly what he is. He oozes maturity, leadership and integrity, and he can play.

"Peter's teammates call him The Machine. He's up at 6:30 in the morning, going through basketball drills. He's going to challenge Whitman's 3-point records, but he's not just a shooter. He can put the ball on the ground and find open teammates. He's going to be a special player at Whitman"

3)  A national level Division II or low Division I guy with national level quickness - "Quam is a legitimate Division II or low Division I guy," Bridgeland says. "He brings national-level quickness"

4)  A guy who ANOTHER conference coach (Lunt?) says will be the best player in the NWC in a couple of years -  "One of the other coaches in the conference said he's going to be the best player in the conference by the time he's a junior"

5)  The before mentioned hardest worker alive today... - "In the last eight to 10 years, I haven't seen anyone play as hard as Drew does on a consistent basis," Bridgeland says. "You look at Quam and he has national-level quickness. You look at Peter and he can shoot it as well as anyone in Division III. Then you look at Drew and he plays so hard that it's a skill. He plays harder than anyone, and he plays for his teammates. He's a throwback......  All of our guys play hard, but Drew takes it to a whole new level. He works harder than any human alive today. He works so hard that it's a skill and a weapon. It's his gift from God. He goes 100 percent every possession, and he's totally selfless. He plays for his teammates.

Just funny stuff, no doubt these kids can play and that Whitman will be a factor and that Bridgeland is a very good coach, but once again, this stuff is funny....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 17, 2009, 07:59:52 PM
Go Boxers!

Go Loggers!

Go Missionaries!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 3peatchamp10 on November 17, 2009, 08:06:11 PM
couple of games tonight. looking forward to seeing the loggers for the 1st time. might be a little early to judge their direction from the game tonight since they are so young. regardless im pumped for ncaa hoops to be back. good luck to all NWC teams playing tonight. Gotta represent!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 17, 2009, 08:20:42 PM
NWCer:  I am trying to get out of work early enough tonight to see your Boxers.  I am eager to see how the Barlett's do and what impact the new players have.  I'll be interested in hearing what you have to say tomorrow.

Whitman should get thumped by DI, but it will be interesting to see by how much.  The Fab3-less UPS gets its first look tonight.   Wonder how the young ones will do.  Boyce needs to be huge.

Go NWC!
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 17, 2009, 08:34:03 PM
TMT,

I won't be there tonight, but will be at both games this weekend.  If you go tonight shoot us a report. 

Evergreen is a pretty good NAIA correct?  What is everyone thinking about the Loggers and their chances?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 17, 2009, 10:48:03 PM
Evergreen has the second leading scorer in the NAIA last year, they did lose some people though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 18, 2009, 01:04:22 AM
I got there early, and Pac pretty much stunk it up early going down by 11 at half.  They picked up the intensity in the second half and R Bartlett just went off hitting shots inside and mid-range. 

Portland Bible had played 6 games before this one according to the program while this was Pac first game, and it showed.  Port Bible only had 7 players dressed up, and the pressure in the 2nd half was the difference.

Ross Barlett tips in the game winner at the buzzer.  I thought is was after the horn, but the officials said it was before and that was it.  Pac could have easily lost this game.  They have a lot of work to do as Portland Bible is no NWC team, but they can build from this.

Carson Barlett looked a step slow, but (are you ready for this) the guard play of Jury and Gaulton was very good. 

Pac made a lot of dumb mistakes, but there is some good signs and lots to build on.  Overall, a pretty good opening night showing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on November 18, 2009, 01:10:21 AM
Loggers lost.  

http://www.loggerathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2009-10/files/ups1117.htm

That kid Menefee dropped 57 on us.  It was disgusting. He can shoot the lights out and go to the basket.  Especially with no hand in his face.  

One of the Loggers Freshman who is (according to the website) 6'8" is out with a boot on (stress fracture).  

The Loggers kept it close in the first half but a severe lack of size hurt them all game long.  Nadav Heyman flashed some brilliant moves but consistently forced shots going to the basket.  

The Loggers reserve back court is young and they show it.  Far too many ill advised shots tonight.  

The defense is no longer the typical suffocating press they used to run.  Though after the lack of success on the defensive end (108 points allowed).  There was still a press but they didn't guard the inbound pass opting to instead double team the person attempting to receive the inbounds.  Usually they opted for the football type pass all the way down the court which allowed menefee so many easy buckets.  

Austin Boyce is still fantastic at getting to the basket though his three point shot choice needs work.  

The worst thing that the Loggers showed was a lack of leadership and heart.  Jason Foster and Robert Kraul last season wore their heart on their sleeve and would get in the team or an individual's face if they needed it.  It seems as though no one has stepped into that role as Austin and Nadav are both more "lead by example" type of players.  Not a bad thing, but when they are down, the energy seems to be sucked out.  

On the positive side they have a real workhorse in Colin Koach (pronounce KOH).  He plays stifling defense and is the quintessential energizer bunny.  Not much of an offensive player but a guy you want on your team.  

The freshman who got the most minutes was Riggs Yarbo.  Nice body, long player with potential.  But he was way overmatched by some larger players and for the most part, pushed around.  

Here is the bottom line ladies and gentlemen

FG% evergreen - 58.7%
FG% UPS - 36.3%

you won't win many games with that ratio.  

ps

anyone who read my earlier posts should note that I don't think they are as bad as I predicted.  

yay...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 3peatchamp10 on November 18, 2009, 02:03:37 AM
loggers didnt play a pretty game tonight, they def showed glimpses of what could be though. inexperiece killed the loggers in the long run. too many fast break points a lot of which were scored when Boyce took a shot underneath the hoop and no one else covered deep. Offense got slowed in the 2nd half, lots of standing and one on one without much ball movement. the loggers rebounded pretty well getting around 18 or 19 oboards not bad against a bigger evergreen st squad. Only thing im disappointed in tonight besides the L is the fact that none of the ups players (experienced or not) knocked menefee on his butt. someone needs to step and set the tone that says you arent scoring on us like that, and if you come to the lane youre gonna take a beating. heyman looked pretty good tonight, hes gonna be tough if he can consistently knock down the pull up j. Boyce played an alright game, didnt shoot a good %. pretty impressed with koach, 19 points in 28 minutes, not bad at all. bottom line is gotta get better. still got some time before conference rolls around UPS could still be dangerous
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pugetsoundfan on November 18, 2009, 03:35:27 AM
Impressions of the game:

Evergreen was better than they've been and Menefee, an All-American NAIA player, was all that.   57 points is sick.   I would have loved to have seen him head to head with A. Williams. 

Puget Sound shot very badly, gave up many easy baskets on long passes off the press (I hadn't seen the press exploited in that way before, and it looked like there's some work to do on how to play the long pass over the top), and still had a chance late.   With around 3 minutes to go they were one play from breaking through, missed call on a Boyce shot on one end followed by a runout and score/foul on the other and that was that.  They didn't get crushed on the boards by a much bigger team; the freshman up front (#32) looks like he'll be a good player but at the moment he doesn't look strong enough to hang in there.  I suspect that tonight was a great learning experience for him, and to me he looked much better in the second half than the first. The sophomore (#24) is plenty, plenty strong and I love his effort and his defense but man he's still got to work on finishing at the basket.  It looks like Boyce will be "it" inside for a awhile--if Puget Sound doesn't shoot well, it's gonna go hard on them.

I actually was impressed by the way the team competed in the second half.  The Loggers were way down with 10 minutes to go and they were playing/shooting badly.  They bore down, found some stuff that worked offensively, and came almost all the way back. 

UPS has some guards who can get to the basket and finish.  Heyman is skilled, Colin K goes hard, and #22 is fast and talented.     

The Loggers are not deep at the moment, but the style of play requires that they play it as if they are.  Coach Lunt has some young players to develop, and it's got to happen fast if this team is going to be an NWC contender.  All of the younger players look like they're fast and athletic, so this could happen.  I didn't pay attention to minutes in the second half, but it looked like the rests on the bench were pretty short for the top players in the lineup--wondered if this explained some of the airballs and poor shooting.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 18, 2009, 05:56:13 AM
Wow, 57.....  Wow...

TMT, thanks for the update, you wouldn't expect a game against Portland Bible to be so close (and admittedly I wouldn't know Portland Bible from a hole in the wall)....

What is it exactly they can build from?  Good to see Ross Bartlett be dominant...

I read the write up, it said PBC is now 6-2, so their 8th game, to Pacific's 1st, so it really showed TMT?

I saw the boxscore and that the Boxers played 11 guys, anybody outside Bartlett impress?

Just glad my Boxers won, and hopefully like you said, they can build, look forward to getting out there this weekend...

Nice job by the Missionaries by the way, 12 points at a D1, not bad....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 18, 2009, 04:10:55 PM
Pac did look rusty, especially in the first half.  It looked like a weaker team that had played 7 games against the first game of a stronger team.  When they turned it up in the 2nd, they gradually came back.  The only took the lead 3 times in the game, with 5:14 and :17 to go in the game and at the final buzzer.  Portland Bible pretty much let R Bartlett get the ball wherever he wanted and paid a high (win) price for that.

"What to build from" Lemar Anglin looks like he might be a player, pretty athletic, but looked like a NWC rookie for most of the night.  He did have some bright moments, but they were few.  I think if he can develop, Carson can improve, and the guards continue good play, they might be in line for a playoff spot, but this league is heavy at the top, and....  

The team is so young, 6 frosh, 5 soph, 3 juniors (one did not play), and 2 seniors, Lowery had to play several of the frosh.  They will take time to develop and learn, but a couple of them look pretty good, especially Webster and McElwee.

Lowery looked like Lunt, substituting early and often.  His first two subs came in with 1:13 gone in the game, and it continued from there.  At one point it seemed, if you fouled you came out.  Hard to get a rhythm going like that.  


First comparisons of the year:  LC plays at Evergreen tomorrow night, and LC and Whitman against Portland Bible in the Whitman classic this weekend.  I am really interested in seeing how LC does tomorrow!  


My preseason thought was that UPS would have a hard time getting out of the non-conference schedule better than 2-7 with wins over Santa Cruz and Portland Bible, maybe Northwest.  Wins against the Wisc schools, St Martins, and Warner Pac might be too tough to get.  They will need a lot of improvement real fast to get more wins.  How far off am I Logger fans?  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 19, 2009, 01:33:05 AM
Well I didn't get the chance to see UPS play, but...

1) I am not too concerned about the Loggers losing...it's early and they are young and definately untested.

2) I would haveno problem if UPS goes 2-7 heading into conference.  They have a pretty tough non-conference schedule, and I think it will be good for them as a team to be tested early and often. 

3) UPS still has a month and a half to get better before conference.  I think they will get a lot better between now and then.

Looking forward to 2 more games this weekend!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 19, 2009, 10:38:40 PM
 :(  Bad news, not gonna make to Tacoma this weekend, will have to listen to the Castle make the call on the radio...better than not knowing at all...GO BUCS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 20, 2009, 02:22:36 AM
TMT, what was up with the Pios tonight?  Their boxscore showed a lot of guys missing including Kollasch...  Your biddy have anything?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 20, 2009, 03:22:18 AM
Quote from: NWCer on November 20, 2009, 02:22:36 AM
TMT, what was up with the Pios tonight?  Their boxscore showed a lot of guys missing including Kollasch...  Your biddy have anything?



Suspended. Took advantage of free meals from the school cafeteria a little more than they were allotted. Oops.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 20, 2009, 09:45:32 AM
Quote from: LogShow on November 19, 2009, 01:33:05 AM
Well I didn't get the chance to see UPS play, but...

1) I am not too concerned about the Loggers losing...it's early and they are young and definately untested.

2) I would haveno problem if UPS goes 2-7 heading into conference.  They have a pretty tough non-conference schedule, and I think it will be good for them as a team to be tested early and often. 

3) UPS still has a month and a half to get better before conference.  I think they will get a lot better between now and then.

Looking forward to 2 more games this weekend!

This seems like a change from recent UPS teams... They've pretty much breezed through their D-III competition with a ding or two from non-D-III foes.  Do you think this team may not be as good as in years past, or is this year's competition just that much better?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 20, 2009, 10:51:14 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 20, 2009, 09:45:32 AM
Quote from: LogShow on November 19, 2009, 01:33:05 AM
Well I didn't get the chance to see UPS play, but...

1) I am not too concerned about the Loggers losing...it's early and they are young and definately untested.

2) I would haveno problem if UPS goes 2-7 heading into conference.  They have a pretty tough non-conference schedule, and I think it will be good for them as a team to be tested early and often. 

3) UPS still has a month and a half to get better before conference.  I think they will get a lot better between now and then.

Looking forward to 2 more games this weekend!

This seems like a change from recent UPS teams... They've pretty much breezed through their D-III competition with a ding or two from non-D-III foes.  Do you think this team may not be as good as in years past, or is this year's competition just that much better?


I think that Evergreen St, which is an NAIA, is probably a better team then most people think this year.  It was out first game of the season with a younger team.  Also the kid from Evergreen St. was the 2nd leading scorer in NAIA last year...and we let him get going.  Doesn't matter what team you are playing, when someone scores 57, it's going to be tough to beat the. And honestly after looking at the stats, the final score is suprising.  We had about 30 more field goal attempts and were +15 in turnover margin. 

But enough of that and making excuses...looking at Puget Sound's schedule.  We play St. Martins (D2), Point, Eau Claire (and maybe Oshkosh?) and then Warner Pacific (another tough NAIA team).   So I do think that our schedule is pretty tough, some might say brutal (ie. Whitworth, who likes to schedule Cal Tech twice a year  :D )

That being said...I don't think we are as good right now as we have been in past years, but I think that by the time conference rolls around we are going to be very tough to beat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 20, 2009, 10:52:09 AM
Quote from: Pio20 on November 20, 2009, 03:22:18 AM
Quote from: NWCer on November 20, 2009, 02:22:36 AM
TMT, what was up with the Pios tonight?  Their boxscore showed a lot of guys missing including Kollasch...  Your biddy have anything?



Suspended. Took advantage of free meals from the school cafeteria a little more than they were allotted. Oops.

The perks of being a D3 athlete...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 20, 2009, 10:53:01 AM
...oh wait...there isn't any
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 20, 2009, 11:20:19 AM
"Took advantage of free meals from the school cafeteria, more than they were allotted...."?

They were allotted free meals?  Doesn't sound good, may be more than just an  "oops"...

Doesn't look like it was just a couple guys either, something is going on there...

Wow, tuff way to start the year, any idea Pio20 on the length of the suspensions or if they were handed down by the university, the A.D., or just the coaching staff?  I wonder if NCAA violations occurred, interesting....

Lots of games tonight, good luck to all the conference teams...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on November 20, 2009, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: NWCer on November 20, 2009, 11:20:19 AM
"Took advantage of free meals from the school cafeteria, more than they were allotted...."?

They were allotted free meals?  Doesn't sound good, may be more than just an  "oops"...

Doesn't look like it was just a couple guys either, something is going on there...

Wow, tuff way to start the year, any idea Pio20 on the length of the suspensions or if they were handed down by the university, the A.D., or just the coaching staff?  I wonder if NCAA violations occurred, interesting....

Lots of games tonight, good luck to all the conference teams...


Man the economy has really hit hard if we're doing this to D3 athletes...

I'm curious as to what the issue is with this? It must have been in-house, most likely as a statement to the entire campus that they wont allow the pilfering anymore.

If the NCAA is cracking down on D3 schools like that, then I dont think there will be many D1 programs.. haha
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 21, 2009, 02:13:24 AM
Ok, got out to the grove to see my Boxers tonight, a ton of offense, no defense... 110-106 Corban...  Pac was up 9 at half, Jon Jury got injured late in the first half and Carson Bartlett didn't play, however 8 mins into the 2nd half Pac was up 14, then they went ice cold.  With about 2 mins left they were down 8, but the two freshman, McElwee and Wester each hit huge 3's, and then Bartlett tied it up and on came OT.  Corban's big guy took over in OT, and that was it, Pac did have a 3 point lead with about 2 mins to go in OT.

Overall, Pac can score, their frosh can play, McElwee was 5 of 5 from 3 and got to the rim as well, Wester can put points up too.  The transfer Anglin impressed, and Bartlett looked good.  Defense was not great, if they tighted that up I like what I see.  Will be back out tomorrow, Jury was on crutches and C. Bartlett was in street clothes so looks like they'll be short handed. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 21, 2009, 03:11:18 AM
Quote from: NWCer on November 20, 2009, 11:20:19 AM
"Took advantage of free meals from the school cafeteria, more than they were allotted...."?

They were allotted free meals?  Doesn't sound good, may be more than just an  "oops"...

Doesn't look like it was just a couple guys either, something is going on there...

Wow, tuff way to start the year, any idea Pio20 on the length of the suspensions or if they were handed down by the university, the A.D., or just the coaching staff?  I wonder if NCAA violations occurred, interesting....

Lots of games tonight, good luck to all the conference teams...

Not sure about the length of the suspension. I think they worked for the cafeteria and thus got free meals in trade for their work. However, I guess they took extra free meals. I believe it was the school that handed down the suspension with Coach G going along with it. Gonna hurt as it seems they have lost three of their best players in Kollasch, Meeuwsen, and Tsukazaki.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:26:35 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 02, 2009, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2009, 12:52:38 AM
Don't know where the Whitworth fans are TMT but their team has been picked to dominate......

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2009-10/news/poll



We are out here, silently waiting the games to begin.

I have word from an inside source (not a coach or player) that the Bucs should be a Final Four team ! ! !  I would love a trip to VA ! ! !

I'm dying to read 89Pirate's thoughts about tonight's 101-79 loss to UW-Stevens Point, a game in which UWSP was up by 37 points in the second half before Coach Semling called off the dogs.

Yeah, it's only one game, but a comment like that is going to bite you on the butt when your team gets run out of the gym in its first game of the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 21, 2009, 03:40:27 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:26:35 AM
I'm dying to read 89Pirate's thoughts about tonight's 101-79 loss to UW-Stevens Point, a game in which UWSP was up by 37 points in the second half before Coach Semling called off the dogs.

Yeah, it's only one game, but a comment like that is going to bite you on the butt when your team gets run out of the gym in its first game of the season.
Sager, here's the deal..WSP is good and they couldn't miss tonight.  WW played together for the first time and it showed.  The upside is now WW knows what a top 10 program looks like in week one and WW isn't.  Maybe the impossibly perfect shooting, maybe the first game jitters, maybe the HS ref who T'd up WW in warmups for a rim touch and later called a ball off the thigh a kick, doesn't matter.  WW got hammered and will need to get off the floor and show something tomorrow.  Thanks for stopping by Greg.  Stay classy San Diego.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 21, 2009, 12:24:39 PM
Wow, tough night for the NWC.  2 and 6 with the nearly unanimous preseason favorite losing 101-79 and being down by so much (55-31 at half, and 37 at one point).  Either UWSP is better than #10 or Whitworth isn't as good as #16....

Come on NWC, let's bounce back tonight.

Oh, a ball hitting a thigh is not a kick, but touching the rim in warm ups is a technical...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 21, 2009, 12:26:28 PM
And TMT, all your favorite teams, the OR schools were 0-5, gotta pick it up!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 21, 2009, 02:49:48 PM
Whoa baby, WW sure took a beat down last night.  Humbling I'm sure...especially after that premature final 4 talk.  UWSP is tough!  They always are.  UPS is going to have to bring their A game tonight for it to be a good game...I'm excited to see what they bring to the table.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
Mentioning a blown kicking call after a 22-point beatdown? That's like sitting in a lifeboat after the Titanic went down and griping about the fact that the galley had run out of pudding for dessert that night. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 21, 2009, 07:28:54 PM
Good luck tonight Logs!  Lets put on a show!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 22, 2009, 09:23:53 PM
Well the Logs kept it close most of the night...it got away from them a little bit at the end.  They hit a real offensive drought in the second half and hardly scored for about 7 mins.  I would have to say I am definately encouraged by this game...it should be something they can build on.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 22, 2009, 09:25:43 PM
I am interested in what the WW fans think after this weekend...were any of you able to see them live?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 22, 2009, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 22, 2009, 09:23:53 PM
Well the Logs kept it close most of the night...it got away from them a little bit at the end.  They hit a real offensive drought in the second half and hardly scored for about 7 mins.  I would have to say I am definately encouraged by this game...it should be something they can build on.

Was it miserable shooting by the Logs or good defense by the Pointers that kept UPS to 55 points?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on November 22, 2009, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 22, 2009, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 22, 2009, 09:23:53 PM
Well the Logs kept it close most of the night...it got away from them a little bit at the end.  They hit a real offensive drought in the second half and hardly scored for about 7 mins.  I would have to say I am definately encouraged by this game...it should be something they can build on.

Was it miserable shooting by the Logs or good defense by the Pointers that kept UPS to 55 points?

A little from column A and a little from column B, with the advantage going to column A
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 23, 2009, 12:21:50 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 22, 2009, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 22, 2009, 09:23:53 PM
Well the Logs kept it close most of the night...it got away from them a little bit at the end.  They hit a real offensive drought in the second half and hardly scored for about 7 mins.  I would have to say I am definately encouraged by this game...it should be something they can build on.

Was it miserable shooting by the Logs or good defense by the Pointers that kept UPS to 55 points?

I wasn't trying to take anything away from Point...it was probably some of both.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 23, 2009, 01:49:42 AM
Quote from: LogShow on November 23, 2009, 12:21:50 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 22, 2009, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 22, 2009, 09:23:53 PM
Well the Logs kept it close most of the night...it got away from them a little bit at the end.  They hit a real offensive drought in the second half and hardly scored for about 7 mins.  I would have to say I am definately encouraged by this game...it should be something they can build on.

Was it miserable shooting by the Logs or good defense by the Pointers that kept UPS to 55 points?

I wasn't trying to take anything away from Point...it was probably some of both.

I didn't think you were... but I wasn't there, and it certainly could have been UPS just having a very off night.  I've seen UPS play and this Point team is fairly young and inexperienced (that's where the 25 TOs came in, I think).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on November 23, 2009, 03:09:23 AM
I saw a bit of the WW/UWSP game and WW looked godawful.  They were slow and, um, bad.  I've been impressed by WW teams the past several years and I'm sure they'll get things together, but let me add to the mini-chorus of people on the board who've been questioning the early chest pounding by Pirates fans.  WW is well-coached and I'm sure they'll be good, but it's a project, my friends. 

Speaking of projects...the Loggers played hard and did hang in there until the very end.  The team hasn't shown much shooting yet and this just killed them in the second half against a sound Point team.  It looked like they auditioned just about everybody on the roster looking for someone who might nail a 3 in the second half, without success; just one or two would have made this a far more interesting game.  Point played well defensively, but there were lots of open shots there that just didn't go.  At times Coach Lunt had three frosh on the floor--and you know what, they did ok.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on November 23, 2009, 07:48:33 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
Mentioning a blown kicking call after a 22-point beatdown? That's like sitting in a lifeboat after the Titanic went down and griping about the fact that the galley had run out of pudding for dessert that night.

What kind of pudding?

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 23, 2009, 11:29:51 AM
So, I have been trying to figure out what the first weekend of games mean, and I think I figured it out.  Like all pre-league games, they mean nothing!

Some interesting results though.  No winning records, although LC might have had they had all of their players (more on that later).  It sounds like Linfield was playing its first game against a team that had played several (sounds familar, eh NWCer), and started out slowly.  NW Christ has been a real good team over the years, so there is no disrespect there.

Willamette goes 1-1 and is now at the top of the NWC standings.  CMS looks like they might be down this year, but a win at this stage for the Cats is very impressive without Mitchell and a young, small team. 

Pac is tied for thrd playing three close games including two very close ones.  They will battle for a playoff spot.

According to their roster and other info (from Biddy), LC plays 3 freshman, 1 soph and a football player huge minutes 3 nights in a row and takes two games into overtime, 1 of which beats Whitman by 15.  LC might be a deep team when the other players get back if these young players can do that.

Yeah, NWCer, my OR teams are a combined 2-8 with wins by Wil and a near loss by Pac the only wins.  Not a very good showing so far, but as the UPS fans say, it is early and they will come around.

WW having trouble with S Cruz seems out of character.  Other posters here imply they are not playing well right now, but it is early. 

UPS is on track for that 2-7 pre-league record.  If they do contend in conference, it will be a surprising  turnaround to me.

Whitman pulls away from Portland Bible and then loses to W Jessup.  Kind of a Jekyl/Hyde routine.

I wanted to come in here and say this means that and I told you so, but not much to say about this weekend's results.  Need more data to figure where these teams are.

Okay, Biddy finally got back to me, and he is pissed!  Apparently, from what Biddy heard, the situation at LC is a witch hunt.  And Coach G did not agree to the suspensions, his boss gave him the edict.  He had no choice in the matter.  It is about the meal service and accounting overages, but the system has been used for many years with no problem and suddenly this year there are NCAA violations that require suspensions right before the first games?  I have never heard such language from Biddy, who said nobody seems to know how long this will go on.

It may take to whole pre-league season to make any sense how the teams will fare in league, but that is what these games are all about.  At least it is not boring.

I am leaving town tomorrow and don't know if can find a thread to the board, so...

Everyone have a great Thanksgiving! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 23, 2009, 03:55:33 PM
Thanks TMT,

Unfortunately for the Pios witch hunts usually bring about findings and they take place in the first place for a reason, interesting...

Seems like the guys they played with over the weekend really battled...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 23, 2009, 03:59:33 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 23, 2009, 11:29:51 AM
WW having trouble with S Cruz seems out of character.  Other posters here imply they are not playing well right now, but it is early. 

UPS is on track for that 2-7 pre-league record.  If they do contend in conference, it will be a surprising  turnaround to me.


So you are saying that UPS won't contend, simply because they could have a 2-7 non-conference record.  Even if we are playing tough competition, and held our own against UWSP?  
Yet you say that WW, who got dominated by Point and barely beat Santa Cruz, was out of character will be fine.

How does that work?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 23, 2009, 05:15:33 PM
Ducking in from Post Patterns I notice Mr. NAIA Menefee hit 16 of 16 free throws for Evergreen St. Fouling him did not help, I see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2009, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on November 23, 2009, 07:48:33 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
Mentioning a blown kicking call after a 22-point beatdown? That's like sitting in a lifeboat after the Titanic went down and griping about the fact that the galley had run out of pudding for dessert that night.

What kind of pudding?

OxyBob

Butterscotch, of course. All the swells -- Astor, Guggenheim, Straus, the Countess of Rothes -- always insisted upon butterscotch.

Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 23, 2009, 11:29:51 AM
So, I have been trying to figure out what the first weekend of games mean, and I think I figured it out.  Like all pre-league games, they mean nothing!

Not so. The losses to UWSP by Whitworth and Puget Sound, for instance, are in-region games. They may come into play should either NWC team be in the hunt for a Pool C berth come season's end. Even if Whitworth or Puget Sound makes it into the dance regardless of the loss to UWSP, it could affect seeding.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 23, 2009, 07:15:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
Mentioning a blown kicking call after a 22-point beatdown? That's like sitting in a lifeboat after the Titanic went down and griping about the fact that the galley had run out of pudding for dessert that night. ;)
That call was made against Stevens Point...I was suggesting that even a ref was in PreCONFERENCE form.  You omitted the "doesn't matter" in the very next 2 words.  -1 karma for being a smart___ agitator and kicking a fan when he's down.  Stay classy Hall of Famer.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 23, 2009, 07:16:58 PM
Logshow,

I was at the games in Tacoma this weekend.  The reports of UPS first to bottom feeder drop are exaggerated.  They looked strong.  Their intensity and style will always make them a formidable opponent.

Me, former players, other fans, the WW coaches and anyone else who loves this proud program were discouraged by what they saw.  WW teams are always a solid unit.  That group was not solid.  When I stop and think about it though most of Hayford's teams have been bad coming out of the gate.  I can only remember a few opening weekend successes for the Bucs and that was when we had loads of experience coming back. I think the offense takes time to digest and Nakamura and Jurich were obviously a huge part of their efficiency.  We will see.  I don't think you will hear much boasting from any of us for awhile.

So, here is how it works.  Bridgeland, Hayford and Gaillard get the benefit of the doubt that their teams will develop because they have a track record of success. I will only speak for WW and not the other two schools (will we ever have a Whitman poster?) but our teams always have peaked.  I think this team will be good as there is plenty of talent.  Lunt had a great year last year with three seniors that Bridgeland recruited. Most of the UPS posters understand this.  His other two teams fizzled the second half of the season.  He needs to prove it.  I give him big time credit for 16-0 last year, but he did lose 2 of their last 3 games when the big time games came.  So the jury is still out on Lunt.  He certainly inherited a better situation than Lowery did at Pacific or Bridgeland at Whitman.  Let's see....

TMT...you are right...it all means nothing till we see how the coaches use the games to make their teams conference ready.  Maybe the best team performance is LC being competitive with those players out.  I hope the cafeteria issues at LC are not significant as that would be a black eye on a proud conference of academic schools.  Some of the guys who played at WW in the 90's told me there was funny business with the cafeteria back when they played and were recruited by LC.  This is D3 right?

Happy Thanksgiving to All
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 23, 2009, 08:18:58 PM
Nwhoops1903,

So there may be some history of the cafeteria thing with LC?  That sheds a completely different light on everything.

I think it's early, every team will be better than they were this weekend, and when the dust settles I still think Whitworth and UPS will be 2 of the final 4 standing...   
Give me a few more performances from Whitman, Linfield, my Boxers, and see what happens with this LC thing before I give the other 2.

Good luck in tomorrow's games for all the NWC teams.










Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2009, 06:37:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 23, 2009, 07:15:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
Mentioning a blown kicking call after a 22-point beatdown? That's like sitting in a lifeboat after the Titanic went down and griping about the fact that the galley had run out of pudding for dessert that night. ;)
That call was made against Stevens Point...I was suggesting that even a ref was in PreCONFERENCE form.  You omitted the "doesn't matter" in the very next 2 words. 

You did not suggest that the ref was in "preconference form" in that post. You may have intended it that way, but your post did not carry that meaning. This is what you said:

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 21, 2009, 03:40:27 AMMaybe the impossibly perfect shooting, maybe the first game jitters, maybe the HS ref who T'd up WW in warmups for a rim touch and later called a ball off the thigh a kick, doesn't matter.

There are three things listed in there that are offered as explanations for UWSP's beatdown of Whitworth. The "first game jitters" reference, which you claim is in reference to the refs (or a ref), is set apart from the reference to the ref by a comma. Since the first clause, referring to "the impossibly perfect shooting," is clearly not about the ref, there is therefore no implication that the second clause is about the ref, either. Rather, I read it the way that it still seems pretty clear to me was your intention: The "first game jitters" reference is to the Whitworth team rather than the ref who made the blown kick call, an inference further reinforced by the fact that you said this about the Pirates two sentences earlier:

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 21, 2009, 03:40:27 AMWW played together for the first time and it showed.

As I said, you may have intended to say that the ref had first-game jitters, but your statement does not match that.

Yes, I didn't include the "doesn't matter" in the quote. I did not draw the inference from your post that you were blaming the refs entirely for the rout, nor did I say as much in my Titanic post. What mentioning the refs does do to your post, though, is to dilute the "doesn't matter" and the rest of what otherwise might've been read as a "man up and accept the fact that Whitworth has a long way to go before it's a Final Four caliber team" post. That's my whole point: Invoking bad reffing is inevitably seen as excuse-making, unless it's a close game that hinged upon a controversial call or two. And UWSP vs. Whitworth clearly wasn't that. In short, mentioning bad calls by the refs in a 22-point loss is just begging for mockery.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 23, 2009, 07:15:15 PM-1 karma for being a smart___ agitator and kicking a fan when he's down.  Stay classy Hall of Famer.

I was not "kicking a fan when he's down." I was pointing out the utter folly of making Final Four predictions* for your team before it's even played a single game.

First of all, just to set the record straight, I bear no animus towards Whitworth. I have no rooting interest within the NWC. In fact, I'm an admirer of Coach Hayford and I have a lot of respect for what he's done with the Whitworth program over the years.

Reaching the Final Four is an incredibly difficult task; only a tiny handful of schools in D3 even have the potential to get that far, and among those that do there's a certain amount of luck involved as well as administrative aspects beyond the reach of the program (i.e., seeding, hosting, and bracket location). Almost every Final Four team has to eke out a close win or two in March just to get to Salem (Wash U being no exception). And it goes without saying that the NWC has never had a team reach the Final Four, and it resides within a region whose road to the Final Four is traditionally the most brutal of all (as was discussed in this room a couple of weeks ago), which makes such a prediction even more presumptuous. In short, I was not kicking a fan when he's down. Your fellow Pirates fan brought it upon himself.

Do you know any other movie quotes besides that one from Anchorman, by the way?

* They aren't folly this year if you're a Wash U fan, but that's an extremely rare exception to the rule.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 24, 2009, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2009, 06:37:22 PM
Invoking bad reffing is inevitably seen as excuse-making, unless it's a close game that hinged upon a controversial call or two. And UWSP vs. Whitworth clearly wasn't that. In short, mentioning bad calls by the refs in a 22-point loss is just begging for mockery.

I was not "kicking a fan when he's down." I was pointing out the utter folly of making Final Four predictions* for your team before it's even played a single game.Do you know any other movie quotes besides that one from Anchorman, by the way?
Sager you are correct about mentioning ref's, thanks, lesson learned. 

You are wrong about ME making a Final Four prediction, find the post cause I can't.  I know EVERY quote in Anchorman, but since your forum reputation is as a hovering D3 know it all/stirrer of pot, you get the "stay classy".  Maybe some day we will be friends and we can go shopping for suits together.  I am glad you admire WW program and Coach Hayford, so do I. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on November 24, 2009, 08:47:57 PM
Oh, my...were the Pirates really down to the Slugs with 2:30 to play?  Gracious! 
Here's my prediction: Whitman is going to kill Whitworth.  The Pirates looked to me to be
precisely the kind of team that the Bridge system just blows up. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 24, 2009, 10:28:26 PM
This board is hot this year...I like it!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 25, 2009, 11:28:43 AM
Got a line while out of town and a few minutes.

Gotta start with PS fan:  I don't see how anything that happened this weekend can lead you to believe WW will be killed by Whitm.  Did you not see that Whitm lost reasonably large to a team (Wil-Jess) that a very undermanned LC team took into overtime just before they beat a "powerful" Port Bible team that had them down big in the first half?  I put Whitm as my 2nd place team earlier, but I am more worried about them than WW at this point.  Last and certainly not least, Whitm goes down and beats the "powerful" CalTech by 15 points, tied at the half.  But you were probably taking a shot at WW, not saying Whitm is gonna be good.

Sager (aka Classy):  You are right about the seedings.  I was referring (and didn't say so in my post) to the NWC race rather than all impacts. 

Logshow:  I really don't think there was any funny business about the LC scandal at all.  From what Biddy said, the players worked in the food service area and were paid in meals.  Doing a job and getting paid for it in meals doesn't sound like much of a recruiting tool.  Sounds like the same thing as work-study to me.  I don't see how that is a NCAA violation, but I don't know all of the details.

1903:  Yeah, it was a friend of 89Pirate who made the final four prediction, but 89 got all the heat for that one.

UPS loses to StM by 2:  Well that is certainly progress.  I figured this one to be a blowout but it looks like UPS hung tough.  Now I'm thinking 3-6.  NW might be a W, too.

Fox beating Corban:  Maybe Fox is better than predications.  Maybe Corban is down this year.  Maybe both.

PLU hanging with ESU:  See above.

Interesting games this weekend.  Maybe they will shed more light.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 25, 2009, 12:20:48 PM


Hey TMT, glad you could find a connection, there is obviously something there (The LC thing), they wouldn't have been suspended for nothing.  You just don't suspend all your top players (minus Hollins) if they simply worked in the food service area and were paid in meals.  The word I keep coming back to, interesting.......

But as mentioned earlier, for the conference's sake, I hope everything is ok, would be a black eye to Gailord, Lewis and Clark, and the whole conference. 

My Boxers dropped another one last night, it was Northwest Christian's 8th straight win, I got out to the game, I've seen that one and the Corban one.  Two different type of games.  Scoring galore against Corban, smashmouth against Northwest Christian.  I don't remember Northwest Christian being that good when I saw them several years ago, they're big, athletic, their guard was very good, and they were playing like veterans all over the floor.  My Boxers battled but after it was tied with about 10 minutes to go they couldn't get them down the stretch.  Ross Bartlett was amazing, young Bartlett looked rusty but did some good things, and I like the transfer kid from Yakima Valley.  You usually don't say this about a team that starts 1-3, but I agree with TMT that they could be in a battle for a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 25, 2009, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 24, 2009, 07:51:11 PMYou are wrong about ME making a Final Four prediction, find the post cause I can't.

For crying out loud, nwhoops1903, read the posts before you respond to them, willya? I did not accuse you of making a Final Four prediction. The "your" in this quote:

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2009, 06:37:22 PMI was not "kicking a fan when he's down." I was pointing out the utter folly of making Final Four predictions* for your team before it's even played a single game.

... is clearly a generic "your" addressed to D3 fans in general, not a direct reference to you. Why else would it have an asterisk attached to it saying that it doesn't apply to Wash U fans this season? That would make no sense at all if it was specifically addressed to you in the first place. Furthermore, I repeated the "kicking a fan when he's down" reference towards the end of the post:

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2009, 06:37:22 PMIn short, I was not kicking a fan when he's down. Your fellow Pirates fan brought it upon himself.

Unless you're a multiple-personality poster who goes by the name of 89Pirate as well as nwhoops1903, this is plainly not addressed to you. It was 89Pirate who "brought it upon himself," just as I said originally:

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2009, 03:26:35 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 02, 2009, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: NWCer on October 30, 2009, 12:52:38 AM
Don't know where the Whitworth fans are TMT but their team has been picked to dominate......

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2009-10/news/poll



We are out here, silently waiting the games to begin.

I have word from an inside source (not a coach or player) that the Bucs should be a Final Four team ! ! !  I would love a trip to VA ! ! !

I'm dying to read 89Pirate's thoughts about tonight's 101-79 loss to UW-Stevens Point, a game in which UWSP was up by 37 points in the second half before Coach Semling called off the dogs.

Yeah, it's only one game, but a comment like that is going to bite you on the butt when your team gets run out of the gym in its first game of the season.

Sheesh!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 26, 2009, 04:34:01 AM
Mr. Sager, "He who adds water to the dirt in which he stands gets mud on his feet."  You clearly are entitled to defend your needless and/or needling post(s).  Such posts are your calling card and are enjoyed by the NWC regs.  Keep up the good stuff and good luck with not letting go.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 23, 2009, 07:15:15 PM
That call was made against Stevens Point...I was suggesting that even a ref was in PreCONFERENCE form.  You omitted the "doesn't matter" in the very next 2 words.  -1 karma for being a smart___ agitator and kicking a fan when he's down.  Stay classy Hall of Famer.
I really had no idea that this little 2 liner was so rich and compelling.  Reminds me of a fashion show for cats I once watched.

Please have a nice Thanksgiving and while you're at it, put your asterick in the pudding dish.  This is clearly a generic "your" addressed to asterick users on the forums who don't realize that 60% of the time, astericks work every time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2009, 12:49:44 PM
Ah, the old "you're right and I'm wrong, so I'll just set the argument aside and insult you" post. It makes for tasty pre-turkey-dinner reading!

By the way, it's "asterisk," not "asterick." You might want to stick with "little star" if that's too difficult to remember. ;) :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 26, 2009, 03:08:21 PM
Is this a basketball forum?  lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 26, 2009, 04:43:05 PM
But hey, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  Enjoy that turkey!  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on November 27, 2009, 03:28:51 PM
Quote from: NWCer on November 25, 2009, 12:20:48 PM
Hey TMT, glad you could find a connection, there is obviously something there (The LC thing), they wouldn't have been suspended for nothing.  You just don't suspend all your top players (minus Hollins) if they simply worked in the food service area and were paid in meals.  The word I keep coming back to, interesting.......

Apparently there are questions as to whether players CAN work for meals. They can work for pay as a work study job, but from what I understand the questions arise when they get free meals because it could possibly be used as a recruiting tool. Think along the lines of offering free gear to players, etc. So I guess someone blew the whistle on this to the NCAA and they are investigating whether or not it is a violation for players to get paid in meals.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 26, 2009, 04:43:05 PM
But hey, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  Enjoy that turkey!  ;D
Yep, can't wait for the basketball to come back.  I think this is the first time in a long time that WW hasn't had games on this weekend.  Next games for WW in St. Louis at Wash U, whom they might very well play.  Hopefully the Pirates can make a better splash next weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 27, 2009, 03:59:46 PM
Yeah, Pio, that is what Biddy said, except they worked for the meals, so they weren't free.  It had to do with how many hours worked versus how many meals eaten, so it is not like free gear.  

He went on to say the whole team will be available for the games this weekend, and the issue has been resolved.  NCAA said no violations occurred and cleared all players.

Several tough matchups this weekend:  UPS against 2 WI schools, LC against 2 DII teams, and Willamette against a DII and a strong NAIA.

Oops, gotta go.  My nephew NEEDS the computer!!!!!!!

Go NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on November 27, 2009, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
Quote from: LogShow on November 26, 2009, 04:43:05 PM
But hey, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  Enjoy that turkey!  ;D
Yep, can't wait for the basketball to come back.  I think this is the first time in a long time that WW hasn't had games on this weekend.  Next games for WW in St. Louis at Wash U, whom they might very well play.  Hopefully the Pirates can make a better splash next weekend.
Whether Wash U or NAIA McKendree, Whitworth will face a tough opponent in the 2nd round of the Lopata.  McKendree is #5 in the NAIA I preseason poll...they're 7-1 with a home loss to #11 Union (TN).  They're probably a little high at #5, but overall, a very solid NAIA I team.  If D3, McKendree would probably be around #10 in the D3hoops.com poll.

McKendree head coach Harry Statham recently made national headlines by winning his 1000th career game.
 
http://athletics.mckendree.edu/index.asp?path=mbball&tab=mens

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102609aac.html


I saw Wash U last week at Illinois Wesleyan (Wash U won by 5).  Despite graduating 6-7 small forward Tyler Nading, an All-American, they look as good as the last two seasons.  It helps to have the 1st Team All-American point-guard (Sean Wallis) and the 1st Team All-American 2-guard (Aaron Thompson).  They are a ton.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: buf on November 27, 2009, 06:41:03 PM
Despite 38pts and 14rebs from DJ Marsh, UWO falls 90-87 to Puget Sound.  UWO led almost all the way until a 10-0 run by UPS that ended with under 5min left, which put them up by 6.  UWO got the lead down to 1 in the last minute but UPS closed the deal with a clutch basket with about 15 seconds left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LogShow on November 27, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
Quote from: buf on November 27, 2009, 06:41:03 PM
Despite 38pts and 14rebs from DJ Marsh, UWO falls 90-87 to Puget Sound.  UWO led almost all the way until a 10-0 run by UPS that ended with under 5min left, which put them up by 6.  UWO got the lead down to 1 in the last minute but UPS closed the deal with a clutch basket with about 15 seconds left.

Great win Logs!  Heyman led the way with 20 points and Boyce had 17.  Good job...let's get another win tomorrow!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 07:51:22 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on November 27, 2009, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
Yep, can't wait for the basketball to come back.  I think this is the first time in a long time that WW hasn't had games on this weekend.  Next games for WW in St. Louis at Wash U, whom they might very well play.  Hopefully the Pirates can make a better splash next weekend.
Whether Wash U or NAIA McKendree, Whitworth will face a tough opponent in the 2nd round of the Lopata.  McKendree is #5 in the NAIA I preseason poll...they're 7-1 with a home loss to #11 Union (TN).  They're probably a little high at #5, but overall, a very solid NAIA I team.  If D3, McKendree would probably be around #10 in the D3hoops.com poll.

McKendree head coach Harry Statham recently made national headlines by winning his 1000th career game.
 
http://athletics.mckendree.edu/index.asp?path=mbball&tab=mens

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102609aac.html


I saw Wash U last week at Illinois Wesleyan (Wash U won by 5).  Despite graduating 6-7 small forward Tyler Nading, an All-American, they look as good as the last two seasons.  It helps to have the 1st Team All-American point-guard (Sean Wallis) and the 1st Team All-American 2-guard (Aaron Thompson).  They are a ton.
Wash is a ton indeed.  I really hope we compete in that Sat game.  Thanks for the info Titan!!  Appreciate the links as well. +1!

Congrats to Logs on their win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on November 28, 2009, 01:41:49 AM
1.  Nice Logs win at Oshkosh.  I mean, down 14 in the second half and taking it to them at their place is very sweet, nice work for a young team.  They came close to playing the same song at St. Martin's, a nice DII team..you know, I think UPS is going to be just fine.

2. TMT, I didn't say anything about Whitman/Jessup or any other team on Whit's schedule.  I saw Whitworth being super slow, ponderous even.  Whitman kills ponderous. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2009, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 07:51:22 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on November 27, 2009, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
Yep, can't wait for the basketball to come back.  I think this is the first time in a long time that WW hasn't had games on this weekend.  Next games for WW in St. Louis at Wash U, whom they might very well play.  Hopefully the Pirates can make a better splash next weekend.
Whether Wash U or NAIA McKendree, Whitworth will face a tough opponent in the 2nd round of the Lopata.  McKendree is #5 in the NAIA I preseason poll...they're 7-1 with a home loss to #11 Union (TN).  They're probably a little high at #5, but overall, a very solid NAIA I team.  If D3, McKendree would probably be around #10 in the D3hoops.com poll.

McKendree head coach Harry Statham recently made national headlines by winning his 1000th career game.
 
http://athletics.mckendree.edu/index.asp?path=mbball&tab=mens

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102609aac.html


I saw Wash U last week at Illinois Wesleyan (Wash U won by 5).  Despite graduating 6-7 small forward Tyler Nading, an All-American, they look as good as the last two seasons.  It helps to have the 1st Team All-American point-guard (Sean Wallis) and the 1st Team All-American 2-guard (Aaron Thompson).  They are a ton.
Wash is a ton indeed.  I really hope we compete in that Sat game.  Thanks for the info Titan!!  Appreciate the links as well. +1!

Congrats to Logs on their win.

McKendree is now 8-2 after splitting a pair of games this weekend. From everything I've heard about McKendree, I wouldn't count out the Bearcats in their Friday night matchup with Wash U. It's entirely possible that Whitworth could end up playing McKendree in the Lopata championship game.

Incidentally, I want to give Wash U head coach Mark Edwards some credit for the way that he's set up this year's Lopata. He did two things that he didn't have to do: 1) He scheduled a very tough opponent for his team's opening-night game. No offense to Pomona-Pitzer, but most coaches who were in Edwards'  shoes would've scheduled the Sagehens for their team in the opening round, since the usual rule of thumb is to give your team the weakest opponent in your home tournament's opening round; and 2) By scheduling Pomona-Pitzer and Whitworth for the opening round he guaranteed that both Charles Katsiaficas and Jim Hayford would have a shot at two in-region games this coming weekend, while guaranteeing that his own Wash U Bears would only have one. It's hard for the West Coast teams to fill out a non-conference schedule with D3 opponents, as you all know, so Edwards was doing Katsiaficas and Hayford a favor in that regard. Kudos to Coach Edwards for being a good host.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on November 28, 2009, 07:04:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2009, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 07:51:22 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on November 27, 2009, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
Yep, can't wait for the basketball to come back.  I think this is the first time in a long time that WW hasn't had games on this weekend.  Next games for WW in St. Louis at Wash U, whom they might very well play.  Hopefully the Pirates can make a better splash next weekend.
Whether Wash U or NAIA McKendree, Whitworth will face a tough opponent in the 2nd round of the Lopata.  McKendree is #5 in the NAIA I preseason poll...they're 7-1 with a home loss to #11 Union (TN).  They're probably a little high at #5, but overall, a very solid NAIA I team.  If D3, McKendree would probably be around #10 in the D3hoops.com poll.

McKendree head coach Harry Statham recently made national headlines by winning his 1000th career game.
 
http://athletics.mckendree.edu/index.asp?path=mbball&tab=mens

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102609aac.html


I saw Wash U last week at Illinois Wesleyan (Wash U won by 5).  Despite graduating 6-7 small forward Tyler Nading, an All-American, they look as good as the last two seasons.  It helps to have the 1st Team All-American point-guard (Sean Wallis) and the 1st Team All-American 2-guard (Aaron Thompson).  They are a ton.
Wash is a ton indeed.  I really hope we compete in that Sat game.  Thanks for the info Titan!!  Appreciate the links as well. +1!

Congrats to Logs on their win.

McKendree is now 8-2 after splitting a pair of games this weekend. From everything I've heard about McKendree, I wouldn't count out the Bearcats in their Friday night matchup with Wash U. It's entirely possible that Whitworth could end up playing McKendree in the Lopata championship game.

Incidentally, I want to give Wash U head coach Mark Edwards some credit for the way that he's set up this year's Lopata. He did two things that he didn't have to do: 1) He scheduled a very tough opponent for his team's opening-night game. No offense to Pomona-Pitzer, but most coaches who were in Edwards'  shoes would've scheduled the Sagehens for their team in the opening round, since the usual rule of thumb is to give your team the weakest opponent in your home tournament's opening round; and 2) By scheduling Pomona-Pitzer and Whitworth for the opening round he guaranteed that both Charles Katsiaficas and Jim Hayford would have a shot at two in-region games this coming weekend, while guaranteeing that his own Wash U Bears would only have one. It's hard for the West Coast teams to fill out a non-conference schedule with D3 opponents, as you all know, so Edwards was doing Katsiaficas and Hayford a favor in that regard. Kudos to Coach Edwards for being a good host.

Whitworth and P-P demanded that 1st round matchup...otherwise they weren't coming.  (Per "sources close to Wash U men's basketball" last weekend.)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 28, 2009, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on November 28, 2009, 07:04:04 PM
Whitworth and P-P demanded that 1st round matchup...otherwise they weren't coming.  (Per "sources close to Wash U men's basketball" last weekend.)
Sounds like PP and WW were both being schedule savy and Edwards is indeed being a gracious host.  Hope the travel and games go well for WW (obvious) and the Pirates do get a game against WU.  The last time those 2 teams played was one great game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on December 03, 2009, 10:30:08 PM
Any reads on the Loggers loss v. Eau Claire?  I was a little surprised--wonder if this thin team is going to struggle in the second game in back-to-backs given the style of play.

And for true Logger geeks, check out "Chase Curtiss basketball highlights" on youtube. 
Curtiss was a tremendous player, of course, but it's pretty amazing to see the Curtiss-Cross-McVey-Medved team run the floor.  There is a big gap between the current team--good, scrappy as it is--and that team. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2009, 02:42:32 AM
Quote from: PSfan on December 03, 2009, 10:30:08 PM
Any reads on the Loggers loss v. Eau Claire?  I was a little surprised--wonder if this thin team is going to struggle in the second game in back-to-backs given the style of play.

And for true Logger geeks, check out "Chase Curtiss basketball highlights" on youtube. 
Curtiss was a tremendous player, of course, but it's pretty amazing to see the Curtiss-Cross-McVey-Medved team run the floor.  There is a big gap between the current team--good, scrappy as it is--and that team. 

What's interesting is that EC lost to Oshkosh last night... by 28. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UWBadgers on December 04, 2009, 10:31:47 AM
Oshkosh and UPS had a battle last Friday and I think both teams paid the price for that on Saturday. Oshkosh and UPS were two completely different teams on Saturday, especially UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 04, 2009, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: UWBadgers on December 04, 2009, 10:31:47 AM
Oshkosh and UPS had a battle last Friday and I think both teams paid the price for that on Saturday. Oshkosh and UPS were two completely different teams on Saturday, especially UPS.
I couldn't agree more.....  Neither team appeared to "have any legs" on Saturday.  There seemed to be quite a few guys who looked a bit tired for both teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 04, 2009, 02:08:26 PM
Quote from: cubs on December 04, 2009, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: UWBadgers on December 04, 2009, 10:31:47 AM
Oshkosh and UPS had a battle last Friday and I think both teams paid the price for that on Saturday. Oshkosh and UPS were two completely different teams on Saturday, especially UPS.
I couldn't agree more.....  Neither team appeared to "have any legs" on Saturday.  There seemed to be quite a few guys who looked a bit tired for both teams.

Plenty of time to get that fixed before season starts.  And for all my beating up on Lunt, his teams are in good shape.  They will be ready to go Fri and Sat nights by the time league starts.  But do they have the talent to win?


I saw Linfield play earlier this week and they did not look good.  True, Wiser being out was a big hurt, but the team looked pretty thin.  They were scrappy, though, and kept the game close to a sloppy Concordia team (lots of turnovers).  Plenty of time for Linfield to gel, if they do.  I am almost questioning our placing Linfield so high on our preseason picks.  I just don't see them being good enough to beat the top teams right now.

GF may be better than the bottom 3, too.  They beat a team (Menlo) that beat Pac U and trounced Will a couple of weeks ago, and did it with balanced scoring.  I need to see them play.

PS fan:

I hear you.  Whitman, UPS, Linfield and LC will all beat a ponderous team.  But Whitworth will get some of that worked out by league, too.

No NWC teams in the current top 25 poll.  Ouch.  I wonder if LC would be there without the suspensions and a 4-1 record.  Let's get it going , NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 04, 2009, 08:46:41 PM
WW loses to Pomona Pitzer 54-55.  WW played good enough to lose.  Looked just like the Santa Cruz game.  Had a chance to take charge with 3 minutes to go but missed some free throws, couple turnovers and gave up 2 back to back 3's when it mattered.  Bucs need to get it together.  Start making some 3's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: y_jack_lok on December 05, 2009, 12:29:53 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 04, 2009, 08:46:41 PM
WW loses to Pomona Pitzer 54-55.  WW played good enough to lose.  Looked just like the Santa Cruz game.  Had a chance to take charge with 3 minutes to go but missed some free throws, couple turnovers and gave up 2 back to back 3's when it mattered.  Bucs need to get it together.  Start making some 3's.

Does Whitworth usually play man-to-man defense like they did tonight? They came to this tournament 3-4 years ago and played zone against both DePauw and Wash U. DePauw had no clue how to penetrate the zone and consequently it was one of the most boring games I've ever seen. Wash U picked it apart the next night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 05, 2009, 02:03:14 AM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on December 05, 2009, 12:29:53 AM
Does Whitworth usually play man-to-man defense like they did tonight? They came to this tournament 3-4 years ago and played zone against both DePauw and Wash U. DePauw had no clue how to penetrate the zone and consequently it was one of the most boring games I've ever seen. Wash U picked it apart the next night.
Yes, man to man is the general rule I would say.  I do recall a team a few years back that WW did use a zone frequently, must have been personnel.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 05, 2009, 09:18:39 PM
Pirates play (shoot) much better and win..amazing!!!  72-69

Despite 49 fouls being called on both teams, yawn, Pirates shoot a respectable 8-18 from 3pt.  Mckendree goes to the line 52 times!? and misses 20.  Basically a crazy boxscore...Good job Bucs and travel home safe.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2009, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 05, 2009, 09:18:39 PM
Pirates play (shoot) much better and win..amazing!!!  72-69

Despite 49 fouls being called on both teams, yawn, Pirates shoot a respectable 8-18 from 3pt.  Mckendree goes to the line 52 times!? and misses 20.  Basically a crazy boxscore...Good job Bucs and travel home safe.

That's a solid win over a good NAIA-1 team. It's a shame that it won't count in the eyes of the selection committee should Whitworth have to seek a Pool C bid on Selection Sunday. But I'm sure that the game will help both the confidence and the competence of the Pirates down the road.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 07, 2009, 01:10:37 AM
Anyone else out there thinking that this might be one of those years where we all beat up on each other in conference?  Forget about rankings and win the conference.  Hopefully I am wrong and WW will roll but I am wondering.  Does any team look BETTER than expected at this early mark?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 07, 2009, 11:37:46 AM
NWH:

I would say GF and Willamette, although they are not going to be contenders for the playoff spots, or are they?

Your point is well taken.  LC might be, but there is not enough evidence there yet to make a call.  And they don't play again until after Christmas. 

Anyone know why Wiser did not play against Concordia or why their game against Corban was cancelled?

Sounds like Whitworth got a little lucky with McK missing 20 free throws and winning by 3.  Are they missing the PG from last year a lot, was his name Nakamura?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on December 07, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
I am a bit skeptical about this young Loggers team, but I have to say that I think that they're considerably stronger than I (and many of us who have watched UPS basketball for years) expected.  The W/L isn't good, but this team is set to grow--losing to Stevens Point, DII St. Martin's, a pretty good NAIA team in the opener, and to Eau Claire on the day after a brutal game against Oshkosh isn't so bad.  I thought they'd be getting crushed at this point in the year, and they had a shot late against Point, Evergreen, and St. Martin's.... 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 08, 2009, 07:04:35 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 05, 2009, 02:03:14 AM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on December 05, 2009, 12:29:53 AM
Does Whitworth usually play man-to-man defense like they did tonight? They came to this tournament 3-4 years ago and played zone against both DePauw and Wash U. DePauw had no clue how to penetrate the zone and consequently it was one of the most boring games I've ever seen. Wash U picked it apart the next night.
Yes, man to man is the general rule I would say.  I do recall a team a few years back that WW did use a zone frequently, must have been personnel.

Im my experience seeing WW play they zoned pretty often, and tried to trap usually 1-3-1 or 3-2, but that was against ups back when curtiss and mcvey were seniors
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on December 08, 2009, 07:08:52 PM
Quote from: PSfan on December 07, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
I am a bit skeptical about this young Loggers team, but I have to say that I think that they're considerably stronger than I (and many of us who have watched UPS basketball for years) expected.  The W/L isn't good, but this team is set to grow--losing to Stevens Point, DII St. Martin's, a pretty good NAIA team in the opener, and to Eau Claire on the day after a brutal game against Oshkosh isn't so bad.  I thought they'd be getting crushed at this point in the year, and they had a shot late against Point, Evergreen, and St. Martin's.... 

i think it goes to show that lunt can get a lot out of his guys, they have been pretty thin so far this season, that teamed without much experience lead to loosing games where they had a chance (IMO) in a system like UPS' when kids play hard and work together they can really disrupt what other (probably more talented teams) can do
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on December 09, 2009, 12:47:01 AM
I agree with Logshock--and just watched hard to follow video of a good win at Northwest up in Kirkland.  Once again the Logs were way down in the second half and managed to yank this one out, taking the lead with under 2 mins to go.
Through the grainy video, while I was doing other things, it looked like Levin went crazy for UPS, a much-needed
breakout for him.  Lunt has done a great job of keeping the team playing hard when they've been way down (it might have been a 17 point deficit five minutes into the second half).   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 09, 2009, 10:16:03 AM
I am not ready to annoint Lunt as COY yet, but a very nice win against a good team.  11 down with just under 6 to play and UPS hits 5 3's in a row!  Impressive!  Gotta give the Loggers credit here.  They can score a bunch quickly, but they can get down a bunch too.  That is a concern.

It might be what PSF says about Lunt keeping his players in the game even when they are down, but it might be the players not wanting to lose after being such a successful team over the last several years.  I think it is a result of the conditioning UPS goes through to be able to press for 40 minutes. 

However, I can guarantee you it will be a different story when league starts and things really start to "matter".  Even though the NWC looks down right now, it will be a mine field once league starts (and not just for UPS).  The eventual top teams will not be out-conditioned by UPS and will be ready for their press. 

Great win against NW, absolutely!  Turned the corner and are ready to contend, jury still out. 

Give props to GF and they lost to Corban!

Linfield about to get thumped tonight.  I wonder if Wiser will play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on December 09, 2009, 04:06:26 PM
One more note about the Northwest/Puget Sound game.   The Loggers did not begin to crawl back into the game until they scrapped the full court pressure several minutes into the second half.  The press was not effective (note that N. only turned it over 13 times, equal to Puget Sound's total)--except that it may have worn down the opposition physically opening the way for the last push.  Levin going nuts with 3s didn't hurt, either!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 13, 2009, 01:05:31 PM
Any reports from any of the games last night?  I had planned on going to the Grove to watch my Boxers, but my wife wouldn't let me go!  She had a freezing rain accident back in the day and now she won't let neither of us drive in it! 

Looks like once again there were a lot of points scored as well as a lot givin up by Pac.  Neither is typical of the recent past. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 13, 2009, 03:22:27 PM
NWCer:

I caught the second half of the game after work.  I thought the Boxers did a pretty good job, better than the last time I saw them play.  Concordia has some pretty athletic guys (I think I saw about 4 dunks in a 5 minute span), and PU hung with them.  Two FR were especially impressive, hitting 6 of 12 from the 3 including a 3 at the buzzer to send the game into overtime by McElwee.  Wester was impressive, too, with more poise than a FR should have.  Add Bartlett and LeMar on the front line and the other Bartlett when he gets more healthy, and you have the makings of a pretty good team.  Right now, I would have to rank them above Linfield who struggled against Concordia (although without Wiser). 

PU's movement on offense created a lot of open shots, and seemed to confuse Con.  They penetrated and kicked it out for wide open 3's time after time.  Their zone defense seemed to give Con problems.  Just a good all-around game, even though it was a loss.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 13, 2009, 03:57:33 PM
Thanks TMT,

I saw Concordia's record was pretty good, good to see my Boxers going up and down with them.

Good that you thought their offense was impressive, like I said earlier scoring that many points hasn't been typical of them. 

What do you think has been the difference on offense, you would think with the loss of Howe my Boxers would struggle to score points this year, but it doesn't seem like the case.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 14, 2009, 01:22:56 AM
A nice win for Whitworth at NAIA Div. I Montana Tech today.  The Bucs seem to be coming around.

Tough to look at the conference standings at this point and see seven teams with losing records.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 14, 2009, 02:06:54 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on December 14, 2009, 01:22:56 AM
A nice win for Whitworth at NAIA Div. I Montana Tech today.  The Bucs seem to be coming around.

Tough to look at the conference standings at this point and see seven teams with losing records.
Yes, WW wins by 19.  The 2 big guys go 10-11.  Outside shooting woes continue...poor 3 pt shooting is not a recipe for winning and yet this game was never in question.  Weird.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 17, 2009, 10:50:50 PM
I thought Whitworth didn't schedule Cal Tech this year, but I was wrong:  They changed their name to N Central.  Watching the game on the internet, and it is half time.  I am not sure I can watch any more of this.  I was eager to get a good look at WW, but how can you tell anything about them when the opponent is a high school team.  Sorry, maybe it just is the poor resolution of the internet feed.

17 point spread and it should be more thanks to 10, mostly unforced, turnovers. 

Okay, I can see some good play and potential from WW, I was just hoping for a much better game.  Maybe next time, 12/27 against Stout.   

Oh well, I guess I will get to bed early tonight.  I don't think N Central ever got out of bed today.  Talk about sleepwalking.

Enough!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 19, 2009, 03:32:42 PM
NWCer:

Since you and I were the only ones with the pre-league predictions, any changes in your order from what you have seen and heard so far?

You go first this time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 20, 2009, 11:09:29 AM
I've only seen 2 games this year, both Pacific home games.  Linfield seems a little banged up, LC had their suspension thing, UPS looks like they have a brutal schedule, Whitman looks like they have an easy schedule, so I really don't know, nothing that can make me change my original predictions.

What about you TMT?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 20, 2009, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 19, 2009, 03:32:42 PM
NWCer:

Since you and I were the only ones with the pre-league predictions, any changes in your order from what you have seen and heard so far?

You go first this time.


Quote from: pineconefan on October 16, 2009, 11:20:21 PM
Top Three Teams:
1. Whitworth (returns 1st Team All-NWC David Riley, probable All-NWC post Nate Montgomery).
2.  Linfield (returns stong post - Wiser - and scoring guard - Tesoro).
3.  Puget Sound (A. Boyce, Heyman).

Possible wildcards:
1. Whitman
2. Lewis & Clark
3. Pacific

At this point - no changes
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 20, 2009, 02:27:11 PM
Sorry PCfan, you did have a prediction in, and I have it down too.  

NWCer, I have made more games this year than years past as I am single now and have more time.  I have soured a lot on Linfield, a little on Whitworth and upgraded a lot on UPS.  Whitman just confuses me.  And I have some good feelings about LC.  So my list would probably be altered a fair amount.

For LC, Hollins has been huge for them, and the word I got is that Edwards has POY capabilities.  Add a healthy Kollasch and all of the teams are going to have match up problems with those 3.  Then throw Taylor and the Hawaiian in the mix draining 3's,  3 decent bigs (that may be a stretch), and a weaker than expected WW and Linf, and I have a new #1.

Gotta have WW still up there.  They still did some good things in their last game that was on the internet against a high school team, but their struggles and lossed against other teams make them my #2 pick.

I still think Whitm will be very tough as they get acclimated to Bridgeland's system although they looked out of sync at time against the HS team they played after WW.  I have them at #3.  This one is more of a hunch than a strong feeling, and I would be real upset if I didn't go with it now if they do come through.

UPS will battle all of the above a lot harder than I gave them credit for before, but battling in the pre-league and in conference are two different things.  Shelton has been better than expected as has Koach, Boyce and Heyman about what expected and Levin up and down.  The newbies have not stepped up from what I can see from OR, but the team has definitely played better than I thought.  #4 for them.

Linfield at #5, Pac at #6 and PLU at #7 are just plain guesses, and could and will finish in any order here.  Linfield has play some tough teams and taken their lumps, especially with Wiser out.  So their record is skewed.  Pac has played an average schedule with some tough teams and some weak ones, and have played better as of late, but there is still some questions there.  PLU could be the surprise of the coach's poll and finish much higher with almost everyone back and no Dressler to take so many shots.  

Fox and Wil will battle for the cellar with Fox playing much better than I thought and Wil playing somewhat better.  Fox has some nice additions to their team and a lot returning, so I will give them the nod at #8.  Wil  has Mitchell who has POY potential, but little else.  I have heard they are running a whole different offense this year, scrapping the flex and going to more motion, but that will take a long time to come around with so many new faces, so #9.

Scheduling may play a role this year, too.  The Whit's will make for a tough weekend for the rest of the league at home or on the road.  LC has Wil as their partner this year, UPS and PLU are together, Fox and Pac team up, and Linf is by themselves.  So only the Whit's make for a truly tough 2-game series.  Advantage, the Whit's.

We probably are doing this a little early.  The games next week could tell a lot about how the teams will do.  I might want a muligan after I see what happens.    
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 27, 2009, 10:22:02 AM
Big pair of games for WW today and Tuesday.  Go Bucs!!

WW up 70-53 with 15:00 to play

Pirates stretch the lead and cruise to a comfortable win.

Tuesday night at 7 will be a big challenge and hopefully a good way to see how much WW has improved since the opener vs Point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 29, 2009, 10:46:33 PM
Whitman plays a great game and barely loses to Wisc Whitewater.  Could Whitman please find a poster!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 29, 2009, 11:45:50 PM
Okay, I just knew when I was writing that last post prediction that I should have been waiting for this week's games.  Now I look like an idiot.

Absolutely great win by Whitworth tonight against WiscW.  I watched a bunch of that game, and they just dominated the #3 team in the nation.  They are the #1 team in the NWC!!!!!

LC blows its second game in a row, losing by 1 to Calvin and in OT to Plattville.  They may be my #4 team right now. 

GF gets a real whopping at River Falls.  I listened to that game until I couldn't any more. 

I need about 3 mulligans! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 29, 2009, 11:47:42 PM
Whitworth shows some toughness and defeats Wisconsin Whitewater 94-84.  Impressive stat is only 3 turnovers all game by Pirates.  11-21 from 3 point.  NICE!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 30, 2009, 12:52:26 AM
Great win Whitworth.....  Great effort Whitman last night, I'm sure taking Whitewater to the brink surely helped the Pirates tonight....

Dissapointing effort by Fox for the conference, hasn't the Wisconsin school they were down FOURTY-SEVEN to tonight been at the very bottom of their respective conference for the last 3 seasons?, and that's after the whoopin' they took to Augsburg last night....

Another tough close one for LC, something tells me they'll be fine however when conference starts...

Last I heard UPS was up 58-54 at UPS, interesting to see how that one turns out.....

No score yet on PLU at Simon Frasier....

That only leaves Willamette tonight at PSU, which was delayed because of the weather, not much question on how this one will turn out....

Lookng forward to the start of conference, everyone is 0-0....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 30, 2009, 01:07:01 AM
UPS 71, Portland Bible 68....  Who are these guys? (Portland Bible)...  Pac beats them at home on a tip in, they're up on Whitman like 30-10 before losing, and they get LC in OT - be it without their players because of the suspension... I'd never heard of them...  You seem to be the knowledgeable one TMT, inform us....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 30, 2009, 11:43:14 AM
As good a performance by the Pirate team in the Fieldhouse as I've seen in many years.  The win over WW is big. 

WW had as imposing a front line as any DIII team I've seen come to Whitworth.  But the Pirate big guys gave them all they could handle. 

The difference was Beal at point guard.  Only three turnovers all game for Whitworth, and none by Beal. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 30, 2009, 12:20:21 PM
NWCer:

I watched them play Whitman on the internet early in the season.  

There is no boxscore on this one yet, so I can't really tell anything from the score.  But they have a very good big man who is tall, skinny and very athletic (Cooper, I think, about 6'9"), and two very quick, small guards that I imagine could handle the UPS press given how they handled Whitman's.  Other than that, they are pretty average and only have 7 or 8 players.  One of the guards and the big man got national honors, I think, from last year, so they are real good.

PSU by 7 over Wil who scored 90 points on them?  Great job, but that doesn't make any sense.  

LC is taking hits down in AZ, but I don't think they will be fine.  There are some glaring problems, mostly from the post position.  Their starting center has scored almost no points this season, and has almost no rebounds.  Meusususususen, er Mewson, is pretty good, but not big enough to handle other big men.  They can't hit big FT or 3's when they need them.  I am off work this week, so I listened to both of their games on the internet, and they played well enough to win, and then couldn't finish the job.  

Watching WW play last night, they should have no trouble with LC and the problems they are having now, much as it pains me to say that.  Even worse, Whitm will probably beat them too.  Starting the pre-league 1-6 is no problem.  Starting the league at 0-2 with two home losses will be huge.

Like I said, I need mulligans, maybe 5 now.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on December 31, 2009, 02:11:46 AM
Too early for predictions for the opening weekend games?  Here's a stab..

The Whits seem to be playing well, I see them both sweeping the Willamette-LC swing... LC playing 3 games in the last 3 days, along with the concerns TMT brought up, travel Thursday, one day prep for Whitman and their press on Friday and then hit the floor Saturday, not very easy....  I also see UPS sweeping their Fox-Linfield swing.. I see PLU, although they've been playing well it seems, getting swept on their Linfield-Pacific trip, which then lastly leaves my Boxers getting Fox at Fox on Monday night...  I think that's everyone...

So how does that sound?

After the 1st weekend....

Whitworth 2-0
Whitman 2-0
Pacific 2-0
UPS 2-0
Linfield 1-1
LC 0-2
Willamette 0-2
George Fox 0-2
PLU 0-2

What does the board think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 31, 2009, 10:56:26 AM
Whitworth                    2-0
Linfield                          2-0
Whitman                      1-1
Pacific                          1-1
UPS                              1-1
LC                                 1-1
PLU                              1-1
Willamette                    0-2
George Fox                  0-2

oh and I will see at least 3 games....HNY!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 31, 2009, 04:41:07 PM
I am going to steal from both of you.

Whitworth      2-0
UPS              2-0
Pacific           2-0
LC                1-1
Whitman        1-1
Linfield          1-1
Wil                0-2
Fox               0-2
PLU               0-2

I might get 4 games in this weekend.  These staggered starting times and all games in OR allow for some double headers if my Honda doesn't break down.  Basketball junkies heaven!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 03, 2010, 02:11:17 AM
Whitworth plays a game on the road that they never trailed.  Montgomery controls the inside, Riley goes 2nd half bonkers from outside.  WW wins by 19, the only road team to win tonight. 

That means...yes UPS loses at Fox.  Not gonna be a 16-0 season in Loggerville.
LC beats Whitman in OT after a crazy, determined Missionary comeback from 11 down with 3:21 to go.  Linfield plays solid and takes care of business at home over PLU.

If LC can show up tomorrow with some energy and fight, WW will be tested.  Pirates want a victory at LC and a road sweep.  Two hard things to accomplish early in the NWC.  WH should find WIL to be easier to take down than there last 2 opponents.  UPS needs answers or they start 0fer.  Pac gets it started at home vs PLU and I like there chances.

So early thoughts....WW is the real deal and so is Linfield.  LC and Whitman are evenly matched with 10 guards on the court.  UPS is looking in the mirror.  FOX likes the bubble they momentarily sit on.  WIL and PLU are searching.  Pacific sits back and watches the madness that is the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 03, 2010, 02:53:47 AM
NW1903:

I agree with everything except Linfield being the real deal.  Beating the coach's poll last place team by a lot doesn't make them the real deal.  But if they take down UPS, I might have to jump sides of the fence with you.

I got to see the LC-Whitm game, and like you said, a lot of guards on the court at once.  But that is what you need to get a win from a pressing team.  UPS will see that out of LC when they meet too.  It looked like LC tried to slow it down too early and nearly paid the price with a loss. 

Sounds like Whitw is playing at a top level.  I don't see how LC can stay with them with their bigs doing so little.  Monty and the other big should have a field day on Sunday.  I would like to see a LC win, but not expecting it.  Except the UPS upset, I am right on with my predictions for the weekend.  I don't think any of us saw that coming.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on January 03, 2010, 06:04:07 PM
Loggers appear to have been hurt badly by the absence of Heyman for the second straight game--unclear why he's out, but his absence is huge for this particular Loggers team.  He has played extremely well of late, and it's no disrespect to anybody to say that after him there's a big dropoff at the point--Heyman's really good.  I watched the great Fox broadcast of the game, and the Logs were just awful offensively in the second half.  As always they were getting to the rack at will, but couldn't finish.  At the end, they looked like UPS opponents in recent years--no legs left, lots of shots going short.
I don't see how they beat Linfield if Heyman remains out--it'll be a struggle if he's in the game.  The team doesn't shoot well and it doesn't appear to be deep enough to bring the pressure they've thrived on....

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 04, 2010, 01:35:44 AM
Wow, I was way off on my picks, good thing I don't go to Vegas much!  UPS dropped 2 I thought they'd get.  Whitman dropped one at LC I thought they'd get...  My Boxers give up leads to PLU and lose another one I picked, and I picked them to beat Fox tomorrow, but with my track record I may have jinxed them...  Willamette loses by 27 at home to Whitman?  Whitman pretty good or is Willamette pretty bad? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 04, 2010, 05:44:37 AM
If Pac comes back and beats Fox tonight, NWHoops is one game off from having a perfect prediction for the weekend.  Nice job, Hoops.  

I am either 6-3 or 5-4 depending on who wins tonight.  Respectable, but not impressive.

NWCer trails the pack.  You will rebound.  Whitman is pretty good.  They almost got LC after LC was up 15+ in the second half.  Having seen both presses (UPS and Whitm), Whitm's is better.

Having seen both Whitw and Lin play, the battle is for second through fourth place.  Whitw is that good!  They could run the table.  Linf at LC Friday will be the early leader for 2nd.  UPS has a huge uphill battle.  They get 23 TO's against Lin but shoot 5% from 3 and 38% from the field for the game.  Those may be the worst % in the NWC for years if not longer.

It just goes to show, pre-league games mean little when predicting the NWC race, except to NWHoops, I guess.  

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 04, 2010, 11:56:04 AM
Thanks TryMeTeam, glad I got something right, lol.  I do expect Pac to come back from a bad loss and play better.

random thoughts:

Fox's upset over UPS will be redefined if they win tonight from upset to good home win...WIL is down and must fix whatevers wrong after dropping 2 at home and never being in those games...LC is a good team and I think they will battle LF for the 2nd spot all year...Whitman is dangerous and they have to believe they are right there near the top 3...PLU will be as unpredictable as ever and will score.  They could finish higher than UPS and that might be their trophy this year.  Loggers are missing a good player, whats up with that?

WW is big and physical and can score from outside, I think this team can climb a tall mountain this year if they focus and play smart.  Winning on the road is huge and never easy and they had complete control of both games they played.  Lots of confidence in Spokane and yet they should know from preconference how bad they can play.  If Pirates post some 30+ point victories this year at home, I will not be surprised.  I get the feeling that the conference might be down the same year WW is actually UP a level.  Its early...


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 04, 2010, 01:43:32 PM
T-M-T - did you get to four games this weekend afterall?  I don't remember the last time every game in a conference weekend was played in Oregon.  Tonight's game can still count?

It was an impressive start for the Pirates.  Never threatened in either game.  Bob Castle was going nuts about Montgomery's performance at Willamette, fun to listen to.

The silver lining about the season-opening blowout by Stevens Point is that the Pirate coaches can use that all season to keep the team from getting overconfident.

I would guess Whitworth will be back in the top 25 this week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 04, 2010, 07:03:20 PM
Pinecone:

No I only made it to 3.  I had a party to go to on Sat. night.  And I missed a good one because I was going to go to Fox to watch UPS trounce them, oops.

I saw LC beat Whitman, LC get beat by Whitw, and Linfield trounce UPS.  But you're right, I could make it 4 by going tonight.  Hummmmm.  I'll have to see if I can make that one.

Linfield was pretty good beating UPS, but UPS was pretty bad.  Their press is the same, but the athleticism difference is huge and that renders the press ineffective.  Linfield still had 23 turnovers, but very few came bring the ball up past half court.  Linf looked much better than they did in the pre-league.  Maybe it was getting Wiser back or maybe it was just UPS.  Friday at LC will tell more.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 05, 2010, 05:28:45 PM
And no...Pac comes back from their loss and gets outshot and outhustled in first half, but then fights back hard in second half but fails in the end.  GF, enjoy your moment of perfection.  Congrats on a nice weekend to both WW, LIN and......GF?!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 05, 2010, 05:33:50 PM
NWCer:

I did get to the game last night.  Fox looked awfully good and Pac just looked okay.  Pac got down early and just couldn't get back over the hump.  Pac cut the lead to 3 with 5 minutes to go, but was down too much, 21 early in the 2nd half, to come all the way back.



Time for this week's predictions:

UPS          2-0
Whitw       2-0
Whitm       2-0
LC            2-0
Linf          1-1
Pac          0-2
PLU          0-2
Wil           0-2
Fox          0-2

UPS gets into the win column this weekend and mid-week with a sweep of the lower tier teams while Fox and Linf get their first losses.  Linf vs LC will be the game of the weekend, and I will be there.  Fox gets the grueling tripl to eastern WA and comes down to earth after their great start to the conference.  Tough road for the Boxers this year.  I don't see many wins for them now (sorry NWCer).  That means they are now in the upset mode.

Only two games in OR with week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 05, 2010, 07:06:46 PM
TMT, no apologies needed, unfortunately you're probably right.  I was at the game last night, HORRIBLE 1st half, great push in the second half.  My Boxers are just so youthful.  This Whitworth-Whitman is a tuff trip coming up, a tuff one to "get something started", but hopefully they can turn the year into something more than an upset role, 14 games left....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2010, 12:10:37 AM
And so the games shift North.

What will UPS say if they lose at home and are 0-3?  Heyman is playing tonight...

PLU could very possibly win this game.  Too late for a prediction.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on January 07, 2010, 12:54:34 AM
UPS loses...

at home...

to PLU...

by 15

the wheels have come off. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 07, 2010, 02:02:49 AM
UPS loses to PLU and I can hear the chainsaws firing up in loggerville.  Makes me think of one of my favorite basketball quotes.  From Jack Nicholson sideline at a Laker Championship Game after Lakers had just defeated a favored, previous year NBA champion.  The CBS sideline reporter asks him what does he have to say to the losing team and only Jack and his distorted face can say it best "Wait til last year, baby."

Can the Logs recover and finish top 3, very iffy right now.

PLU might just have something this year...nice win on the road Lutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 07, 2010, 02:59:14 PM
Just got around to checking last night's score. 

All I can say is WOW.   :o

UPS Fans - I know its a rough year for you.  But please stick around this board.  Your input is valuable.  LogShow, PS Fan, etc. - your opinions are important.

Also, we need Bearcat Fan back too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 07, 2010, 04:23:12 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 07, 2010, 02:59:14 PM
Also, we need Bearcat Fan back too.

Pine,

Hope you make back to the football board next fall...Once (509) pulled the rip cord we lost the most vocal Whitworth poster on that board and I noticed your voice trailed off towards the end of this year.  Hope to see you back next fall!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 07, 2010, 10:51:19 PM
So, WC11:

How about the game on Friday?  Linfield at LC for the early season lead on second place.  I see a close battle with LC the slight favorite due to home court.  Linfield has played much better since Wiser got back, and the new players (Anderson, Martin and Vance) are developing nicely.  The Cats looked horrible in pre-league, but have come out hot in league games. 

PCF:

I agree with you about calling out the UPS fans to the board.  NWCer has been here for years for his Boxers even when they are down.  It will be a loner board without the UPS contingent. 


Great win be PLU last night.  Total domination in the second half.  I listened to the very scratchy broadcast and PLU just kept scoring and UPS kept missing shots.  I still expect UPS to get some momentum going and take some teams down. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 08, 2010, 01:12:21 AM
True point 11.

I'll be back over on the football board.  Work got a little busier this fall.  But also the injuries to Anderson and the two QBs soured the season for me.

We need someone on here talking up Linfield basketball too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 08, 2010, 11:36:02 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on January 08, 2010, 01:12:21 AM
True point 11.

I'll be back over on the football board.  Work got a little busier this fall.  But also the injuries to Anderson and the two QBs soured the season for me.

We need someone on here talking up Linfield basketball too.

Good to hear Pinecone.  My guess is that Anderson will be back and so will the Rats in the conference title race.

However, I think this will probably be my last post on the hoops boards for sometime.  I know zero about NWC and Linfield hoops.  I haven't watched a men's game probably since the 2000 season so I would offer no real words of contribution to this board besides "Go 'Cats!".
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on January 08, 2010, 08:19:00 PM
The Loggers were not very good against PLU in the second half, or in the first half for that matter.   I don't think PLU has much talent, but they were tough, more aggressive on the glass and much stronger physically than the Loggers.  It didn't help matters that the big guy who's been playing lots of minutes for UPS was in street clothes with what looked from the cheap seats like a cast on his hand, but that doesn't explain the loss to PLU.   To me this looked eerily like the Fox game—Puget Sound up in the first half with a solid lead but not playing particularly well.  Against Fox they were buoyed by the home team's  shakiness against the press in the first several minutes, and against PLU by some (unusually) good 3 point shooting in the first half.  Once Fox settled down, and once the Loggers returned to form against PLU (UPS is just not a good shooting team this year), the team's basic weaknesses were exposed, big time.   

The team is young, there's not much depth, and they don't shoot well.   They have several guys who can get to the basket, but without any outside shooting to open things up they're finding it crowded in there—PLU was running two and three big guys at every Logger drive to the basket.  Defensively, the press looks ok now and again but I don't know if UPS is deep enough to sustain it or good enough offensively to answer the many easy baskets they give up when the press is faltering.  Heyman and Boyce are good players, Koach is a terrific sixth man, and the young guys up front (Shelton, Yabro, and Barboa) look like they could turn into a nice version of the old Shelton/McVeigh/O'Donnell group that had so much success a few years ago.  But at the moment, the team just isn't very strong.

I think they'll get better as the season rolls on.  I mean, they beat Oshkosh, beat a good Portland Bible team, lost to St. Martin's (which has a great record in DII play) by 2, and played Stevens Point and Warner Pacific tough.  They led Fox by 15 in the second half (I think), and PLU by 10 early in the second half.   A few more decent minutes in those games and they're 2-1.   I thought .500 when the season started, and I will stick by that.  They'll beat PLU there, Fox here, Willamette twice, Pacific twice, Whitman here, and Lewis and Clark here.  Of course, if they drop the game to the Bearcats this weekend....I start attending women's games and haunting that board instead! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 08, 2010, 08:56:50 PM
OK, here we go, I like Linfield to get LC, UPS to pick up their first NWC win against Willamette, Whitman to get past Fox in what I think will be a good one, and the shocker of the night.....! - ok, no shocker, My Boxers succumb to the powerful Pirates in Spokane...  Let's play hard boys!

To echo some earlier posts, we do need all the UPS faithful to get back on the board, and I agree bearcatpress as well...

And somebody speak out and support Whitman, year 2 of the Bridgeland era and they are off and runnin...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 09, 2010, 01:57:07 AM
Just got back from the LC-Linfield game. Typical LC basketball. The offense relies on making jump shots and threes. There is little movement, little structure, and little results unless they are hitting the outside shot. And they sure didn't do much of that tonight, shooting 20% from three and 33% from the field. Defensively they are soft as usual. For the first time in many years they have an actual big man with height and girth in McCullough, but for some reason he didn't see many minutes in the second half. They gave up so many layups in the second half it was kind of ridiculous. I think back to 2007 when the Pios went 13-3 in conference and the presence they had inside defensively with Gene Rivera. That was the first year in a long time that they had that, and it showed. It also showed tonight that they had no real defense. I will say this much, Kelly Edwards is a beast. Extremely athletic, able to beat anyone off the dribble and soared for several rebounds. After watching the game tonight I think as a team LC just isn't that good but they have a lot of individual talent in Edwards, Kollasch, Hollins, and even Meeuwsen. I think this talent will keep them in the top four in conference, but unless they figure out how to either play better defense or get better shots offensively I don't see them going very far.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 09, 2010, 05:00:45 AM
Good night for the Pirates.  Never serious threatened by Pac after jumping on them out of the gates.  Second half coast.  WW 3-0 and I predict will win again tomorrow against Fox.

Whitman does burst the Fox bubble and forces 33 turnovers, ouch.  Looks like EB has his system in place and full court chaos has a home in Walla Walla.  Actually Whitman probably won because they shot the ball so well and held off a determined GF.  Can Pac get a win on Sat?  Yes, will they? No.

Linfield bounces LC on the road and sits at 3-0 and might very well clobber WIL tomorrow.  I just circled Jan 22 on my calendar, LIN at WW.  LC can't go 6-29 from 3 and compete, oh yea, they aren't and will be 1-3 after Sat at PLU.

UPS is finally in the left column after defeating the WIL bearkittens.  Early results are not good news in Salem.

So I think tonights games turned out the way most would have expected, even the LC loss.  After week 2 and it's only a mini prediction...

WW         4-0
LIN          4-0
PLU         3-1
WHT        3-1
FOX         2-2
LC           1-3
UPS          1-3
PAC          0-4
WIL           0-4
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 09, 2010, 05:07:51 PM
Alright, My Boxers loss but I was 4-0 with my predictions!  Big recovery from last weekend when I was horrible.  Let's try for the perfect weekend...

PLU has seemed to give LC poroblems in the past, so with them resting last night and LC coming off a tuff L to Linfield, I'm a go with PLU at home tonight to run their record to 3-1.

I like Whitworth big over Fox.

I see Linfield big over Willamette.

And I see both teams in Walla Walla tonight breaking the century mark with My Boxers picking up the gutsy 108-105 win!

Here we go....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 10, 2010, 03:13:19 AM
Man, 3-1 on the night makes me 7-1 on the weekend with the only loss being my Boxers in a close one at Whitman without Jury, tuff facing that press without him I'm sure.  The surprise over the first couple weeks has to be PLU...  They host the Whits next weekend, that will tell a lot...  Hard to see the Pios sitting at 2-10, 1-3, with 3 of those home games, not the greatest start but lots of basketball left, Linfield and Whitworth are perfect, clearly the best 2 teams...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 11, 2010, 07:35:13 PM
Nice job, NWCer and NW!

I quit.  I am not going to make a fool out of myself any more.  I literally know nothing about this conference, especially the OR teams I am most familiar with.  I think I will make my guesses, for they truly are guesses, and then just reverse them.

Pio

I pretty much agree with you about your Pios, except:  They really don't have a big man in McCullough, 2 points and 9 rebounds in 8 games (and those are TOTALS not averages!).  The other big, Brickley, is not a post player, nor is Mewson.  So without an inside presence, what can they do but launch 3's.  They sure pounded it inside when they had bigs about 8-10 years ago, but they have not had a big with presence since then.  Even Riveria was a forward that had crazy shot blocking ability.

I agree their D is weak and  they stand around a lot.  All of this, no bigs, soft D, no movement, and shooting woes, are not what I expected, and has led to a record they deserve.

Linfield is still not on my A list.  They did not beat LC, LC shot themselves out of that game.  Those of you waiting for the Lin-WW game will be disappointed.  WW will trounce them.  

The standings will not hold form by the end of the season.  Teams will get Lin, LC and UPS will get better, PLU and GF will fall, and Whitm may stay up there.  

But as I said earlier, what the hell do I know!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 12, 2010, 09:28:05 PM
Glad to see the Pirates cracked the top 25 again.  I thought it might come a week sooner, but beggars can't be choosers.

I see a challenging weekend ahead.  For all of the Loggers' troubles early this season, I am sure the Pirates will get the best shot UPS has to offer.  And PLU has been playing at a much higher level than expected.

NWhoops, I assume you'll be there to cheer on the team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 13, 2010, 02:42:15 AM
I am visiting SCIAC country Friday but will be at PLU.  I think it will be a tough weekend and I agree UPS will be playing at their HIGHEST level.  It has been such a great rivalry for the past 5-6 years.  Tough to miss.  PLU hopefully, will get beat down by Whitman and show up Sat a little shell shocked. 

Regardless, WW can and should find a way in both games.  I think PLU matches up better but AB is a handful for UPS and limiting him to under 20 is key.  Great shooting or poor shooting will be key for UPS.  PLU has a true post in VB and they have good transition scoring.  Could be a shootout on Sat.

WW will push it inside until someone stops Nate.  Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 13, 2010, 04:52:22 PM
Not quite sure about the Lutes! They have played very well and found a way to succeed. This weekend will be important for PLU. If they split they could be a factor this year! I will take in the Whitman game !

GO LUTES! 8-) ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on January 13, 2010, 07:49:52 PM
It's hard to gauge the Loggers' chances this weekend, though I suppose that in the first time since almost forever they're underdogs at home on Friday and Saturday.  Boyce sat out most of the Willamette game with an ankle injury, and if he's not good to go it might be ugly, particularly against Whitworth's good front line.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 14, 2010, 11:15:59 AM
Frontrunner Galore here...

Sure, I'll chime in for LINFIELD basketball.  I'll take a photo of the NWC standings as of today and not come back for many another day. This is the way I USED to see the NWC standings every year. Not only did the rest of the conference have half a chance at football but I lived through ten straight NWC LINFIELD basketball titles.

There is a reason Wildcat11 and I don't play here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on January 14, 2010, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on January 14, 2010, 11:15:59 AM
Frontrunner Galore here...

Sure, I'll chime in for LINFIELD basketball.  I'll take a photo of the NWC standings as of today and not come back for many another day. This is the way I USED to see the NWC standings every year. Not only did the rest of the conference have half a chance at football but I lived through ten straight NWC LINFIELD basketball titles.

There is a reason Wildcat11 and I don't play here.

Wow, come in and post hate about 18-21 year old kids... why even bother posting at all? Do not try to tell me that you were not talking about them because they are Linfield basketball.

.....would expect more class out of a grown man.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 14, 2010, 05:12:52 PM
I am now trying to tell you I was not talking about them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on January 15, 2010, 02:06:44 PM
prediction -

The Loggers will lose 2 in a blood bath this weekend securing the future of this season. 

is it even worth going to watch either of these games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on January 15, 2010, 02:27:40 PM
Yes, because of the Bridgeland-UPS matchup, always exciting to see what's going to happen when Bridgeland faces his old team.  UPS could be jacked up for it's old coach, but more likely that factor won't matter as all the loggers under bridgeland have passed on and the Whitman talent supercedes everything and takes over.  But it's worth watching from that matchup standpoint.  Unless heyman comes back and Boyce gets over his injury and steps up I don't think UPS is going to have much of a chance.  Also an interesting test for Linfield this week; will they get up for two teams that aren't expected to be competitive in the NWC or do they come out with a half-hearted performance?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LOGGER4LIFE on January 15, 2010, 04:30:16 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on January 15, 2010, 02:06:44 PM
prediction -

The Loggers will lose 2 in a blood bath this weekend securing the future of this season. 

is it even worth going to watch either of these games?

If you're going to be that type of fan who is going to throw these Loggers under the bus because of the early season struggles, you shouldn't bother going to either of these games at all.

In fact, just stay out of the Fieldhouse all together. Forever. Let the fans who go and cheer their a** off for these kids fill the stands. And stop pretending you have some kind of inside hookup for information.

That being said, I hope with all my heart that the Loggers pull off these two vics--I'll be keeping my eyes posted to the live stats tonight and tomorrow.

Out.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Lutes07 on January 15, 2010, 05:35:39 PM
As everyone continues to doubt the Lutes I would just like to remind everyone where they were predicted to finish in the NWC... Last place... Continue to doubt them and we shall see where they end up... Nothing better then a bunch of haters
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on January 15, 2010, 06:51:38 PM
Quote from: formercat on January 14, 2010, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on January 14, 2010, 11:15:59 AM
Frontrunner Galore here...

Sure, I'll chime in for LINFIELD basketball.  I'll take a photo of the NWC standings as of today and not come back for many another day. This is the way I USED to see the NWC standings every year. Not only did the rest of the conference have half a chance at football but I lived through ten straight NWC LINFIELD basketball titles.

There is a reason Wildcat11 and I don't play here.

Wow, come in and post hate about 18-21 year old kids... why even bother posting at all? Do not try to tell me that you were not talking about them because they are Linfield basketball.

.....would expect more class out of a grown man.

DOC isn't a grown man...he is just a surfer boy ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 16, 2010, 02:54:04 PM
Where are the Loggers? Are they just front runners. UPS is not a bad team. The league is tough this year. I think they take Whitman tonight!

How about those LUTE's! They are finding a way to win and it is a total team effort. The Whitman game was fun to watch. Very up tempo and exciting basketball! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 16, 2010, 03:00:03 PM
etule, I agree....  Not trying to call anyone out, but this board isn't the same without the Logger faithful, they need you more than ever now.  Logshow, you're my guy!  Where you at!?

My Boxers are 0-5 and I'm still with them, battled at Linfield last night, had it tied with 5 to go after being down 16, and yes, we're gonna beat the Pios tonight!  And get in the left column.  I'll be there, will you make it out TMT?

In the other games I like UPS to get Bridgeland in his 2nd trip back.

I like Linfield to go to Fox and win.

And I like Whitworth to stay perfect in conference with a win at PLU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tglassman55 on January 16, 2010, 10:07:07 PM
Quote from: LOGGER4LIFE on January 15, 2010, 04:30:16 PM
Quote from: Tglassman55 on January 15, 2010, 02:06:44 PM
prediction -

The Loggers will lose 2 in a blood bath this weekend securing the future of this season. 

is it even worth going to watch either of these games?

If you're going to be that type of fan who is going to throw these Loggers under the bus because of the early season struggles, you shouldn't bother going to either of these games at all.

In fact, just stay out of the Fieldhouse all together. Forever. Let the fans who go and cheer their a** off for these kids fill the stands. And stop pretending you have some kind of inside hookup for information.

That being said, I hope with all my heart that the Loggers pull off these two vics--I'll be keeping my eyes posted to the live stats tonight and tomorrow.

Out.

:-D  AHA HA AH HA H HA HA HA  HAHA HA HA H A

1.  I love that you are trying to paint me as some "kind of fan".   As if there were a limited number and because of the comments that I make occassionally on a message board somehow give you some insight into my type of "fanhood."

2.  Is making a prediction throwing them under the bus?  Predicting that they will win and hoping that they will win are two entirely different things.  This reminds me a great a deal of the "If your not with us your against us" argument.  Apparently, if you have any serious doubts about the abilities of your team or coaching staff, you are not allowed to voice them for fear of sounding like somehow you aren't a fan.  As the definition of "fan" does not mean "only the fans who cheer their ass[es] (I assume that's what the stars meant), I will continue to go to Logger games and support them... with a healthy dose of skepticism. 

3.  If I have said anything that is incorrect on this board or you think you know me well enough to say that the information I have put on here is incorrect, please cite examples.  I have no motive to go onto d3boards.com and lie about University of Puget Sound basketball. 

With that being said, kudos to the Logs on their big win tonight.  It goes to show what a team can do when they shoot 19% higher than their season FG% and 17% higher than their season 3pt% can do. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2010, 10:09:40 PM

I've been following the Live Stats from George Fox.  Linfield's Joseph Vance scored a ton in the first half and has sat for a while - did he get hurt?  Anyone know?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on January 16, 2010, 10:48:47 PM
BIG win for the Log Show today...type of game that can really get some momentum going (I hope!). Looked like a complete team effort with seven different guys scoring 7+ points and 21 assists on 29 field goals. Our bigs owned the paint while Heyman and Koach played very efficiently. Koach went 5/5 fg, 6/6 ft, and also grabbed 6 boards! Beast!

Huge weekend in OR looming for my boys...Wins at Pacific and LC will get them to .500 and right back in the thick of things.  Let's fire up that buzzsaw Loggers!!

ps. Hey Lute07, I personally will continue to doubt. They got my Logs, granted. But soon, they will be the NWC manifestation of the Denver Broncos. See you on February 2nd in Parkland.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 17, 2010, 12:50:49 AM
84-80 LINFIELD holds 'em off.

Box Score only at 9:45 PM

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/stats/mbkb/gfum0116.htm (http://www.linfield.edu/sports/stats/mbkb/gfum0116.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 17, 2010, 10:31:45 AM
WW does the roadtrip right and stays perfect.  Holding off UPS and completely shutting down PLU Sat.  The Pirate defense was remarkable in the last 25 minutes of that game.  Hanging 50 in the first half, WW came out, and with intention, won the game by stopping Lutes rather than just outscoring.  Loved it!!

Congrats to LINF for keeping pace.  Looks like 5 teams are in the running still for the third spot.  I agree that PLU wont hold the 3 spot for long.  UPS could climb back in it (and should) on pride alone.  LC and Whitman can't lose at home and expect to get there.  Fox will test teams, especially at home, but I don't see it happening.  Add that all up, and yep, I have no clue who will be 3.  Anyone think LINF or WW WILL leave the top 2 spots?

2 interesting and tough games coming up this week in Spokane.  Whitman comes Tuesday and Linfield Fri.  Of course, I will pick Pirates to win, however I do believe that at least one of those games could be decided late.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PSfan on January 18, 2010, 02:00:06 AM
I was able to see both games this weekend in Tacoma.   Whitman is fun to watch but they're young and not nearly good enough offensively to overcome all of their defensive mistakes and weaknesses.  I suspect they'll be good by the end of this year and very good next season.  At this point, UPS is a stronger team.  It was nice to see the guys shoot reasonably well, as Tglassman noted.  Just a bit more shooting against PLU/Fox and the team is 3-3 or 4-2 and looking at a playoff run while the young team improves, rather than 2-4 and a longshot....on the other hand, there's no reason the Logs can't sweep at Pacific and L&C next week, and 4-4 at the turn would give'em a pulse.

Whitworth is a good team, but I'm not as impressed with this team as I have been with recent Whitworth squads.  They were hugely advantaged up front at UPS, in part because Puget Sound's big freshman is on the bench with a cast on his hand or wrist; his frosh replacement is game, but too thin right now to hang down low with Whitworth's much heavier and stronger big men.  But I didn't think Whitworth's guard play was as good as it's been in the past, and I didn't see them running as smoothly on the offensive end as they have.  Puget Sound let the game get away early, and the team looked down and lost as the shots kept clanking in the first half.  They made a nice run and showed some signs of life late in the second, but too late, obviously.

I think Whitman's going to give Whitworth one heckuva game, and I think that PLU is going to plummet back to the pack quickly.  That's what Lutes do. :)   

I think PLU will come back to earth, pronto. 

 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 18, 2010, 02:13:25 PM
Time will tell on PLU. Whitworth to physical for them last week. I hope everyone feels the way PS fan feels. Just over look the lutes. They have some players this year that will compete. They are also very young with only one senior. I see improvement in them everytime I've watched them play. They did what they needed to do and split with the Eastside teams. Even if they split next weekend they are in good shape. They are no sure win for anyone this year! They will not beat themselves! Good to see them coming around. Makes for a better league.

I thought Beal for WW was pretty solid and the guy in the middle is very very good. They are the team to beat!  ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2010, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: PSfan on January 18, 2010, 02:00:06 AM
Whitworth is a good team, but I'm not as impressed with this team as I have been with recent Whitworth squads.  They were hugely advantaged up front at UPS, in part because Puget Sound's big freshman is on the bench with a cast on his hand or wrist; his frosh replacement is game, but too thin right now to hang down low with Whitworth's much heavier and stronger big men.  But I didn't think Whitworth's guard play was as good as it's been in the past, and I didn't see them running as smoothly on the offensive end as they have. 

IMO Whitworth may be better than they were last year.  Their defense is smothering. So far in league, the shooting percentages for the other teams games have been:

Willamette 43% 
LC  38%
Pacific  30%
George Fox  45%
UPS 35%
PLU 34%

This week will tell the tale. Linfield and Whitman present the extremes of style the Bucs will face. If they are able to smother these teams defensively, I'd put them at the same level as last year's team.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 18, 2010, 05:03:20 PM
I agree on the defense. I felt that they were very fiesty on D and physical. It a tightly called game it could hurt them but the game I watched at PLU the defense created lot's of problems for the Lutes.
They deserve their ranking from what I observed. Very good team! I don't see Linfield or Whitman beating them this weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2010, 06:41:07 PM
Quote from: PSfan on January 18, 2010, 02:00:06 AM
Whitworth is a good team, but I'm not as impressed with this team as I have been with recent Whitworth squads.  They were hugely advantaged up front at UPS, in part because Puget Sound's big freshman is on the bench with a cast on his hand or wrist; his frosh replacement is game, but too thin right now to hang down low with Whitworth's much heavier and stronger big men.  But I didn't think Whitworth's guard play was as good as it's been in the past, and I didn't see them running as smoothly on the offensive end as they have...

I think Whitman's going to give Whitworth one heckuva game...

Beal is much more physical than Nakamura or B Williams.  I haven't seen a Buc PG drive it inside in transition as powerfully.  His shot is pretty darn good, just wish we had him for more than 1 season.  Our backup PG is now playing after early injuries.  W Gebbers will be a force in the NWC for WW the next 3 seasons, my own prediction.  WW is a better team than last year talent wise.  Jurich, Nakamura and Sellreit played with big hearts and mental toughness and thats what made that team better than good.  This years squad is also deeper.  WW will roll over Whitman tomorrow night by protecting the ball and punishing the little missionaries inside.  If Beal plays smart, we win by 25+
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 19, 2010, 12:41:40 AM
I agree that the Bucs will beat Whitman if they take care of the ball.  The Linfield game is going to a great matchup.  Linfield and WW have played everyone but each other and Whitman and they look the same statistically in league play.  The only prediction I have is that there will be over 1,500 at the game and Field House will be rocking.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 20, 2010, 11:37:23 AM
Now that was dominance.  The game was won in the first 10-12 minutes.  Nice Nice Nice.  Can't wait til Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 20, 2010, 11:52:04 AM
That was more than dominance!  That was a behind the woodshed experience to say the least.  I was actually very surprised that EB's guys came out that flat, and IMO kind of ugly...

Friday is going to be AWESOME !  Hopefully, we can get more crowd there to blast the Wildcats back to McMinnville where they belong.

BTW - I'm Baaaaaaaaaack!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 22, 2010, 01:57:23 AM
Prediction show:

WW over LINF
WIL over PLU
UPS over PAC
FOX over LC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 22, 2010, 11:40:03 AM
We will find out about PLU this weekend! I think they beat Willamete not sure about Fox. It will be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 22, 2010, 12:10:47 PM
You the man, NW, but I gotta disagree with half your calls tonight.

PLU will not lose to Wil.  The guards will make the difference here.  McTaggart and Mitchell will offset each other as will Bull and Mounts.  PLU guards are more talented than Wil.  But there can be only one winless team after this weekend, and I say "will be".  Wil at Pac gets one team off the streak.

Fox's bigs with give LC fits, but LC guards showed the kind of play I thought they would against Pac last weekend, and they will give Fox a problem tonight.  I am going with LC in a tight one at home. 

As I said before, the hype will not match the game.  Lin gets blown out at WW, and UPS handles Pac easily.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 24, 2010, 12:59:12 AM
LC looking good with 1:00 to go...but wait now 83-80...at the buzzer...NO LC wins by 3.

Wil over PAC

LIN over WHT in a tight one 84-80

FOX throttles PLU 92-67
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 24, 2010, 08:21:01 PM
Halfway through the NWC schedule.  How about some impressions from the posters on this board?

Biggest surprise (good) - tie between PLU and George Fox.  PLU scrapping and clawing their way to one more win already (5) this year then the Lutes had last year.  Fox getting the benefit of a solid post presence in Smith.

Biggest surprise (bad) - tie between UPS and Willamette.  We knew there would be some drop off for the Loggers, but at this point it doesn't look like they will make the conference tournament.  Coaching changes are always tough, but Willamette's 1-7 start is a big surprise for a proud basketball program.

Prediction for second half - Whitworth will win, so the battle will be for second place.  Linfield can take a huge step forward for second place if the Wildcats can win twice in Tacoma next weekend.  Otherwise it will be a battle.  I expect George Fox to make the tournament as well.  Fourth place will be a battle between L&C, PLU and UPS.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 24, 2010, 08:23:03 PM
First Half All-NWC:
Montgomery (WW, Post)
Beal (WW, PG)
Wiser (Lin, Post)
Tesoro (Lin, G)
Edwards (L&C, W)
Shaw (WM, G)

Left Mitchell off the list.  He leads in scoring and rebounding, but he is Willamette's only option at this point, so he gets a lot more touches than the other players.

Okay, time for the rest of you to opine...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 25, 2010, 01:26:45 AM
First Half All-NWC:

I haven't seen anyone Whitworth has played against that would crack the first 7 at Whitworth.  I know Wiser has been beating up some other teams, but he was no match for Whitworth's bigs.  Tesoro played well, but not as well as Whitworth's guards.  Edwards played decent, but not as good as Whitworth's wings.  Shaw played decent--he had a stat line similar to Bo Gregg coming off the bench and scored 20 less than Riley.  Beal is head and shoulders above any point guard in the league (except for Wade Gebbers).   Seriously, is there any team in the league that Loofburrow would not start for?  He ranks 9th in minutes played at Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 25, 2010, 03:11:05 PM
First Half ALL NWC Top 10:

Montgomery, WW              
Beal, WW
Riley, WW
Shaw, WHT
Edwards, LC
Stockner, GF
MacTaggart, PLU
Bartlett, PAC
Mitchell, WIL
Tesoro, LIN

Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 25, 2010, 01:26:45 AM
Seriously, is there any team in the league that Loofburrow would not start for?  He ranks 9th in minutes played at Whitworth.

No, he would be averaging 25+ minutes a game.  I expect Jack's minutes will go up in the second half.  I think conditioning (layoff) and understanding of his benefit to THIS team took some time to decifer.  He will be a major force in the conference, as will Wade G.



                         
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 25, 2010, 07:10:43 PM
Put Montomery on several other teams and he will make the people around him better. Not saying that the WW players are not very good they are but who you play with has a big impact on what you can do! I think Beal is the best PG I've seen this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 26, 2010, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: etule on January 25, 2010, 07:10:43 PM
Put Montomery on several other teams and he will make the people around him better. Not saying that the WW players are not very good they are but who you play with has a big impact on what you can do! I think Beal is the best PG I've seen this year.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 25, 2010, 03:11:05 PM
First Half ALL NWC Top 10:

Montgomery, WW             
Beal, WW
Riley, WW
Shaw, WHT
Edwards, LC
Stockner, GF
MacTaggart, PLU
Bartlett, PAC
Mitchell, WIL
Tesoro, LIN                         

I agree that Montgomery would help any team in the conference and that the three WW selections for nwhoops1903 are great players.  However, what amazes me about WW this year is the depth.  Take nwhoops1903's all-star selections from WW's team out of the picture and I still think WW is in the running for a playoff spot.  This is a classic deep team that doesn't lose anything when they bring guys off the bench.  In fact, they often get a boost.  Great overall team, but they are going to have to run the table in the second half to get the championship outright.  I don't see Linfield losing to anyone but the Bucs. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 26, 2010, 05:32:21 PM
Can't argue with anyone on any of the teams.  They are all good players.  WW is deep, and you could make a case for all five starters on the all-league team, but we all know that is not the way it is done.  So just pick 3 of them and move on. 

Wil and LC get to make "the trip" this weekend and will probably lose all of the games there.  Fox starts an interesting round of games this week with a game at Pac tonight.  Might try to see that game, will you NWCer?

Can Linf keep on winning against the middle of the pack?  I don't think so, and this weekend they will be upset twice with two tough games in Tacoma. .  How about PLU and Fox?  PLU will sweep as will UPS, Whitm and WW.   Fox will split.  UPS has their backs against the wall, and pretty much has to come close to winning out to make the playoffs. 

Predictions: 
     WW        2-0
     Whitm    2-0
     UPS        2-0
     PLU         2-0
     Fox         1-1
     LC           0-2     
     Linf         0-2
     Pac          0-2
     Wil          0-2

I said I wasn't going to do this anymore, but I just can't help myself.   All home wins except Fox at Pac tonight.  Bold (or stupid) predictions!  Probably stupid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 26, 2010, 11:00:27 PM
FWIW...http://www.wildcatville.blogspot.com/ (http://www.wildcatville.blogspot.com/) blogger T Mar sent this out to me

QuoteApparently new* NBA official Scott Twardoski, Linfield alum, worked
the Big Sky (men's hoops? women's hoops?) in the early 2000s. And,
apparently he worked as an official in the WNBA the last four years as
well as the Big Sky and earned high marks on both fronts.


*He's apparently one of about 10 rookie refs the league is breaking in
this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 27, 2010, 12:54:39 AM
Pac defeats GF 72-69.  Huge game for Bartlett, 29pts 18 rebs.

Boxers get their first!!  The second half madness has begun....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2010, 02:02:32 AM
Just got back from the game tonight.  R Bartlett was huge!  Fox seemed to wane down the stretch, maybe got a little tired in the dark gym.  Fox missed a lot of wide open shots.  Both teams played similar on offense with the high pick and roll, but Pac was just a little bit better.  Fox just couldn't hit a 3 in the second half (20%, well below their average), and Gault and Bartlett hit their shots.

Puzzling loss for Fox, great win for Pac!

NWCer, tell me you were there to see your Boxers win!

Oh, yeah, Jury may be gone for a while.  He took a hard foul on a layup and went down with 14 minutes left in the first half.  He left the court on crutches, not a good sign.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 28, 2010, 11:07:40 PM
Prediction Show:

WW over WIL
LC over WHT
PLU over LINF
UPS over FOX

Would that be 2 upsets?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 29, 2010, 12:35:22 AM
I was not there TMT, wish I were....  What a line by Bartlett....

nwhoops - I wouldn't call any of your picks upsets...  I like all your picks except I'm a go with Linfield over PLU...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 29, 2010, 12:12:07 PM
Too bad, NWCer!  You missed a good one!

Since I picked all of the home teams except the Pac-Fox game, I am already 0-1.  But if that trend holds (is 1 game a trend?), I favor Hoops over Cer with a Whitman win putting me ahead.

The next two weekends should clear up the race for the playoffs.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 29, 2010, 03:56:10 PM
I don't think it can be overstated how big this weekend is for Linfield.  After this weekend the Wildcats finish with five of six at home.  If Linfield can win twice this weekend, they set themselves up to host Whitworth with a chance to claim a share of the title over the final weekend of the season.

So, can Linfield win at PLU and UPS on back to back nights?  The Cats handled both easily at home and seem to match up well with both teams.  It'll be interesting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 30, 2010, 08:50:18 AM
WW holds off a determined challenge and wins going away.  Big night from Montgomery (nothing new) and W Gebbers has a great second half.  101-83 and some very nice FT shooting to ice the game in the last minute.

PLU gets LINF, as I thought.  Fox kicks UPS to the curb on the road by outscoring UPS by 21 in second half, nice win after trailing at half!  Loggers are 3-6 and are in a hole trying to dig there way out.  Just getting deeper....LC gets past Whit and looks to be very much alive for 2nd half.

SAT NIGHT Predictions:

WW over LC, another good challenge
LINF over UPS, in a nailbiter
PLU wins in a shootout
WHT wins surprisingly easy

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 30, 2010, 03:05:16 PM
I'm gonna go on the ledge a bit tonite on a couple predictions:

Whitworth over LC in a closer one than some may think.

UPS bounces back and Linfield drops their second in Tacoma.

Willamette AND my Boxers gets conference wins #2 at Whitman and at PLU...

Can't make sense of this league, so why not go with these?....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 31, 2010, 01:24:25 AM
Ok, so honestly...can anyone in conference stop us?  I sure as heck hope not, but it is exciting!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 31, 2010, 01:57:20 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on January 31, 2010, 01:24:25 AM
Ok, so honestly...can anyone in conference stop us?  I sure as heck hope not, but it is exciting!

Every game will be tough and none tougher than the last one.  To run the table we have to beat Linfield at Liinfield.  Hard to win 5 on 8. We'll see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2010, 02:29:42 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 31, 2010, 01:57:20 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on January 31, 2010, 01:24:25 AM
Ok, so honestly...can anyone in conference stop us?  I sure as heck hope not, but it is exciting!

Every game will be tough and none tougher than the last one.  To run the table we have to beat Linfield at Liinfield.  Hard to win 5 on 8. We'll see.
This team can definitely go 16-0.  It has shown itself to be deeper and more talented than any other conference team.  A team that starts off 1-2 and after some decisions has now won 16 straight is obviously well coached.  Bo Gregg started tonight, a coach's decision, looks like a good decision.  The lineup maneuvering has been beyond effective, it's been timely.  Nice effort by the whole program so far this season. 

The preseason talk of this being a special team doesn't sound overly optimistic right now, it sounds to me, accurate.  I have to believe that if we don't lose to PP, this team would be top 8, maybe top 5.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 31, 2010, 03:27:54 PM
QuoteThe preseason talk of this being a special team doesn't sound overly optimistic right now, it sounds to me, accurate.  I have to believe that if we don't lose to PP, this team would be top 8, maybe top 5.


And to think I got beat up for quoting someone else who thought the Bucs are Final Four material.  Thanks for shooting the messenger people.  Personally, I am leaving my calendar and my checkbook open for a trip to Virginia!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2010, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on January 31, 2010, 03:27:54 PM
QuoteThe preseason talk of this being a special team doesn't sound overly optimistic right now, it sounds to me, accurate.  I have to believe that if we don't lose to PP, this team would be top 8, maybe top 5.

And to think I got beat up for quoting someone else who thought the Bucs are Final Four material.  Thanks for shooting the messenger people.  Personally, I am leaving my calendar and my checkbook open for a trip to Virginia!
Is that a prediction?  I'm talking about the polls.  I won't say "Virginia" until after I see a bracket.  I remember the bracket of death from last year, all to well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 31, 2010, 04:20:13 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2010, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on January 31, 2010, 03:27:54 PM
QuoteThe preseason talk of this being a special team doesn't sound overly optimistic right now, it sounds to me, accurate.  I have to believe that if we don't lose to PP, this team would be top 8, maybe top 5.

And to think I got beat up for quoting someone else who thought the Bucs are Final Four material.  Thanks for shooting the messenger people.  Personally, I am leaving my calendar and my checkbook open for a trip to Virginia!
Is that a prediction?  I'm talking about the polls.  I won't say "Virginia" until after I see a bracket.  I remember the bracket of death from last year, all to well.

Prediction, I would like to think so?  It is definitely a dream !  Good point, that bracket was brutal - welcome to the West region.  I guess we will see what happens around the west, especially the WIAC group.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 02, 2010, 11:13:54 AM
Prognosis on where that Whitworth - Chapman game would be played?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 02, 2010, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 02, 2010, 11:13:54 AM
Prognosis on where that Whitworth - Chapman game would be played?

Assuming things stay the course, I would think Chapman v SCIAC Champ first round in SoCal, then come to Spokane.  Save money as well as the seeding.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on February 02, 2010, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 02, 2010, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 02, 2010, 11:13:54 AM
Prognosis on where that Whitworth - Chapman game would be played?

Assuming things stay the course, I would think Chapman v SCIAC Champ first round in SoCal, then come to Spokane.  Save money as well as the seeding.

Have to agree that is what will happen. Unless WW gets upset in the NWC playoffs, where we would then have a chance at a 4 team pod, probably in Spokane, it will be SCIAC vs Chapman in a play-in game to go upto Spokane.

WW should have a pretty cozy time getting into the sweet 16 as they'll probably get that bye and then have a hope game against a SoCal team on little rest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 02, 2010, 02:25:55 PM
Thanks....I forgot all about the money and the NCAA  :) :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 02, 2010, 03:30:32 PM
Quote from: stag44 on February 02, 2010, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 02, 2010, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 02, 2010, 11:13:54 AM
Prognosis on where that Whitworth - Chapman game would be played?

Assuming things stay the course, I would think Chapman v SCIAC Champ first round in SoCal, then come to Spokane.  Save money as well as the seeding.

Have to agree that is what will happen. Unless WW gets upset in the NWC playoffs, where we would then have a chance at a 4 team pod, probably in Spokane, it will be SCIAC vs Chapman in a play-in game to go upto Spokane.

WW should have a pretty cozy time getting into the sweet 16 as they'll probably get that bye and then have a hope game against a SoCal team on little rest.

That is what my crystal ball tells me.  Then off to the land of 10,000 lakes I would presume, or St Louis (again).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 02, 2010, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 02, 2010, 02:25:55 PM
Thanks....I forgot all about the money and the NCAA  :) :)
I am a cheap bastard too, so I can sympathize with them...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 02, 2010, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 02, 2010, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 02, 2010, 11:13:54 AM
Prognosis on where that Whitworth - Chapman game would be played?

Assuming things stay the course, I would think Chapman v SCIAC Champ first round in SoCal, then come to Spokane.  Save money as well as the seeding.
Very probable.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on February 03, 2010, 02:13:33 AM
UPS gets a win at PLU tonight, 75-63.

The Loggers played only 7 guys, with all 3 seniors playing 30+ minutes. Back to the basics with some good ol' fashioned grit.

Logger fans gotta be proud of the effort tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2010, 03:15:24 AM
That is a fantastic result for UPS considering two of their top players didn't play.  Boyce and Heyman...hmm, odd.  PLU can't be sleeping well tonight.

I am starting to think that a team with 8 losses might make the #4 spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 03, 2010, 09:58:34 AM
No Boyce, No Heyman, No Aberg, No Egberuare, No home court advantage, No rest for Koach, No full court press, No turnover advantage..........NOOOOOOOO PROBLEM!!!!!!!  3 players playing more than 35 minutes, how weird can in get?

UPS takes down PLU.  After a short 5 minute lead, UPS leads the rest of the way by as many as 15 before pulling out a 12 point victory.  The Lutes must have gone into shock with the drastic change in the Loggers style of play.  

Nice win for the Loggers!

Is there a problem in Tacoma?   Why were these 4 players benched?  Suspensions?  Coach's decision?  4 injuries doesn't seem likely!  What is going on, Logger faithful?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: coachferrier on February 03, 2010, 01:00:45 PM
http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/moretopsports/story/1054739.html

article says something about suspensions. I watched UPS-Linfield the other night and there seemed to be some lacking intensity from at least two of the suspended guys. Not sure if there is any correlation.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2010, 02:47:26 PM
"Lunt said he was uncertain when – or if – those suspended players would return to the team." - from the article coachferrier put the link too.

All I can say is WELL DONE Coach Lunt.  Way to do the right thing (to suspend 4 guys of that caliber couldn't have been easy).  And I'm sure the fact that the season hadn't been going the way they had hoped for and the fact that they got a performance last night like they did, he may not be in a hurry to bring those suspended players back.

2 back to back tough losses at home to undermanned teams well below them in the standings (yes including my Boxers  :D  ;)  :)  ;D ) for the Lutes....  Man that's gotta hurt...

To early for predictions?

Friday:  The Pirates stay perfect and turn away my Boxers who will put up a pesky fight, Fox takes care of Whitman, Linfield gets LC, and I'm thinking UPS may have found something with this re-defined squad and in a 50/50 game squeak one out at Willamette (but I wouldn't at all be surprised if Willamette gets win #2)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on February 03, 2010, 02:58:59 PM
TMT- No problems in Tacoma to speak of....Coach Lunt simply put the game in the hands of the guys that care the most, the guys he knew had the most heart. And boy did they deliver.


ps. Colin Koach last night: 25 points, 10 rebounds, 7 assists. ALL career highs. Talk about giving your rival one last facial before you graduate.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 03, 2010, 06:53:12 PM
Colin Coach is a Warrior. He willed them to that win! The kid knocking down the three"s did not hurt. They played inspired!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 03, 2010, 08:02:47 PM
So, were the players suspended or just not played?  Were they in uniform and just left on the bench?  That wouldn't necessarily be suspensions.  That would be DNPCD (did not play, coaches decision).  But Lunt said they were suspended.  What did they do?  Not playing hard is hardly a reason for suspension.  I am confused.

Certainly a monster game for those who played.  Can they keep it up? 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: logshock101 on February 04, 2010, 04:06:00 PM
loggers only had one suspension. the others were just going to sit the 1st half. everybody who played produced and played with a lot of heart, and lunt went with what worked. props to him for having the pair to not play 3 guys who normally play significant minutes. 2nd Colin Koach are u kidding me?!? he played out of his mind, talk about stepping up big time. Loggers have been lacking an intimidating force this season since the departure of Krauel, but Bryce levin stepped up to the plate not only dropping gabe smith with a bow when he was getting crowed, and even better, he didnt back down once when smith started running his mouth. Thats part of the edge the loggers have lacked this season. Those who played on tuesday represented what logger basketball is all about. good win fellas, keep it going against willamette
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 04, 2010, 10:58:30 PM
Thanks, Shock.  And Koach was huge!

This had definitely been the year of weird happenings with the LC situation and now with UPS.  Pac losing 8 conference games in a row, then upsetting 2 of the top teams in the league.  WW looking like they will run the table a year after the only team to do so (UPS) won 16 straight.  Strange!

The last three weeks are going to be exciting!  Pac's winning streak comes to an end as they, and Fox, face the E Wash schools.  LC's post season life is on the line with a trip to McM and at home against PLU.  PLU trying to get off a 2 game losing streak after upsetting Linf.  Wil will have a hard time escaping the cellar with games against Lin and UPS.  

I see some upsets in that mix, I just can't tell you where they will happen.  With my track record, I won't even try.  It is time to get in the playoff hunt or get out.  5 teams within 3 games going for the last 2 playoff spots with 6 to go.  And if LC can get Lin tomorrow night, it would be 6 teams within 4 games with 5 to go! Could be quite a logjam for the last 3 spots.   UPS should have to upset WW to stay in the hunt.  LC might have an advantage being in the middle of the pack and having already finished play WW and Whitm.  Again, getting Linf would be huge for them.  Fox and PLU will have to right their ships right now to stay in this race.

This is why I like the NWC!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 05, 2010, 06:04:46 PM
Fearless Prediction Show Week 6 Fri games:

WW over Pac           its probable
GF over Whit            its a lock
Wil over UPS            its a bake, bet the house
LC over LINF            its possible


Title: Barlett
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 06, 2010, 02:53:17 PM
Seems like Barlett is the first big man in the league to not be dominated by Montgomery. Did not see the game, but it sounded like Barlett played well and held his own against Montgomery. Hard to tell though, he might have had lot of help and that may be why the rest of the Bucs shot so well.  Hard to say without seeing the game. For those in attendance, what did you think?
Title: Re: Barlett
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 06, 2010, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 06, 2010, 02:53:17 PM
Seems like Barlett is the first big man in the league to not be dominated by Montgomery. Did not see the game, but it sounded like Barlett played well and held his own against Montgomery. Hard to tell though, he might have had lot of help and that may be why the rest of the Bucs shot so well.  Hard to say without seeing the game. For those in attendance, what did you think?
Montgomery was double and triple teamed often.  It probably led to some better looks.  On the few occasions that NM and RB went straight up, NM was successful or fouled.  I am pretty convinced Pacific's defensive plan #1 was to crowd the post.  Probably the best way to prepare for WW and then hope for some misses.  WW overcame this with a real team effort that involved all the first 8.

random thoughts:  Congrats to Sundquist on #100, UPS version 2.0 will be strange to watch, LC probably thinks they can win out and hit tournament hot (I agree), LINF is needing some adjustments if they are to stay #2,  LINF, PLU and FOX headed for #3 & #4 wars.  PLU probably misses the 4th spot on a tiebreaker.

Predictions:

WW over FOX
PAC over WHT
WIL over LINF
LC over PLU
Title: Re: Barlett
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2010, 02:38:40 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 06, 2010, 04:00:07 PM
Predictions:

WW over Pac           its probable
GF over Whit            its a lock
Wil over UPS            its a bake, bet the house
LC over LINF            its possible

WW over FOX
PAC over WHT
WIL over LINF
LC over PLU

8-0 for the weekend...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 07, 2010, 05:51:32 AM
Willamette over Linfield was gutsy Nwhoops... Nice job...  You have inside information? Haha... (I see Wiser didn't play...)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 07, 2010, 01:03:52 PM
Nice calls this weekend, Hoops.  Remind me never to bet with you on NWC games!

I got to see the Linf - LC game on Friday, but couldn't get to any games on Saturday.  LC completely handled Linf, who looks like the team I thought they were earlier in the season.  Wiser got hurt in a tangle with about 8 minutes to go in the game and took himself out.  He came right back in and played the rest of the game, but didn't look 100%.  I think it was his ankle, but not sure.  Without him, Linf is a different and not very good team.  They will struggle to make the playoffs if he is not healthy soon.

What is with Wil?  After going 0-7, they are now 3-2 for the last 5.  They are scoring big and will give a streaking LC all they can handle on Tues.  PLU is fading like several of this board predicted.  Linf is in trouble.  Fox looks like they are up and down too.  Should be WW and 3 OR teams for the playoffs if Linf can get Wiser back.




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 07, 2010, 11:21:52 PM
TMT,

The Pios have two of the teams way down in the standings coming to their place this week in Willamette and my Boxers, but both are playing well, Willamette 3 of 5 like you said, and my Boxers 3 of 4 with wins over Fox, at PLU, and against the team you picked to come in 2nd (Whitman), didn't you pick them 2nd?  Anyways, Willamette and Pac will come in playing decently with nothing to lose, but the good thing seems to be that the Pios have found their stride....  Interesting matchups...

Whitworth is the class of the league, but a lot of stuff can still happen these last four games regarding the other 8...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 08, 2010, 12:15:07 AM
Yeah, NWCer, you are right.  LC seems to be hitting its stride, playing like I thought they would when I thought they would win the league.  Obviously, LC has not played to that potential, and WW surely has, and more so.  But Wil and Pac will be two teams finally playing like they should, too.

LC beat Wil without Kunke and Mounts for only a half by only 5, and they are playing much better now, so Tues should be a pretty good game.  Your boxers are also playing better, but LC seems to have their number and can shut them down better than Wil.  But I see two LC wins.

I did pick Whitm to place 2nd and 3rd in my two guesses.  I though Bridge could and would do more with them than he has.  His system needs quality players who "buy" into it, and it appears they have not.  It seems similar to the situation in Tacoma with UPS.  The system sure works better with quality players.  But if you want to get correct picks, you need to talk to Hoops.  My track record is not good!

Pac and Wil are still mathematically in the race, but are down 4 with 4 to go for a playoff position, so both are pretty much out of it.  They play each other the last game of the season, and have the rest of the contenders.  

Whitm and UPS are down 3 with 4 to go, and are pretty much out of it too.  I just don't see Lin, Fox, LC or PLU falling far enough for either of these teams to grab a spot, and both have to play WW yet.  

So the race for the last 3 spots is really a 4 horse race with Lin, Fox, LC and PLU.  I think the other 4 teams will have to settle for being spoilers.  Fox and LC have already lost to WW, so that puts them a little ahead of the curve if WW doesn't lay an egg.  Linf and PLU are struggling right now, and Linf may be without Wiser for a while.  With PLU down a game in the loss column (and 2 to Linf) and having to face WW yet, I would have to go with the other 3 teams to make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:25:17 PM
If Tues was at WIL, I would take the home team, unfortunately it is in Portland and LC will win but not easily.  I think Mitchell's intensity or effort or something has changed.  He is once again the player opposing coaches and teams must prepare for.  Too bad they got off to a horrible start...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 10, 2010, 05:52:01 PM
Not sure where to post this but WTF???

How can Whitwater still be #1 in the West Region rankings when Whitworth has the better In-Region winning percentage, the better Overall winning percentage - oh, and by the way WE BEAT Whitewater???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 10, 2010, 07:17:20 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 10, 2010, 05:52:01 PM
Not sure where to post this but WTF???

How can Whitwater still be #1 in the West Region rankings when Whitworth has the better In-Region winning percentage, the better Overall winning percentage - oh, and by the way WE BEAT Whitewater???
It is a strange looking list.  Obviously there is some subjectivity at play in this.  The East Region has an anomally as well.

West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. UW-Whitewater 17-4 17-4
2. UW-Stevens Point 17-3 18-3
3. St. Thomas 16-2 19-2
4. Whitworth 17-2 19-2
5. Central 16-2 18-4
6. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 12-3 16-4
7. Chapman 16-1 20-2
8. Hamline 15-7 15-7
9. Augsburg 14-6 15-6

previous week:
1. UW-Whitewater 16-3 16-3
2. UW-Stevens Point 17-2 18-2
3. St. Thomas 14-2 17-2
4. Whitworth 15-2 17-2
5. UW-La Crosse 13-5 14-6
6. Gustavus Adolphus 12-4 12-6
7. Chapman 15-1 18-2
8. Central 14-2 16-4
9. Augsburg 12-5 13-5
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 10, 2010, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 10, 2010, 07:17:20 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 10, 2010, 05:52:01 PM
Not sure where to post this but WTF???

How can Whitwater still be #1 in the West Region rankings when Whitworth has the better In-Region winning percentage, the better Overall winning percentage - oh, and by the way WE BEAT Whitewater???
It is a strange looking list.  Obviously there is some subjectivity at play in this.  The East Region has an anomally as well.

West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. UW-Whitewater 17-4 17-4
2. UW-Stevens Point 17-3 18-3
3. St. Thomas 16-2 19-2
4. Whitworth 17-2 19-2
5. Central 16-2 18-4
6. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 12-3 16-4
7. Chapman 16-1 20-2
8. Hamline 15-7 15-7
9. Augsburg 14-6 15-6

previous week:
1. UW-Whitewater 16-3 16-3
2. UW-Stevens Point 17-2 18-2
3. St. Thomas 14-2 17-2
4. Whitworth 15-2 17-2
5. UW-La Crosse 13-5 14-6
6. Gustavus Adolphus 12-4 12-6
7. Chapman 15-1 18-2
8. Central 14-2 16-4
9. Augsburg 12-5 13-5

Subjectivity isnt the word I would use, but ok...lol

Yeah, the East has Medaille down low too?  Weird !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2010, 07:52:47 PM
Prediction show:

WW over UPS              only sure thing
PLU over WHT              shouldnt happen but will
PAC over LINF              probable
GF over WIL                 bearcats come down
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 13, 2010, 12:39:36 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 10, 2010, 05:52:01 PM
Not sure where to post this but WTF???

How can Whitwater still be #1 in the West Region rankings when Whitworth has the better In-Region winning percentage, the better Overall winning percentage - oh, and by the way WE BEAT Whitewater???

It has to do with more factors than just one victory...  Let's look deeper.

Stevens Point beat St. Thomas and Whitworth.  Whitewater has beaten Stevens Point twice.  Whitworth did beat Whitewater.

Point and Whitewater both have extremely high SOS (#4 for Whitewater, #13 for Stevens Point vs. #174 for Whitworth).

The SOS is a compilation of a team's opponent's winning percentage and of a team's opponent's opponent's winning percentage.  In other words, it shows the quality of a team's wins.  If one team is 20-0 against teams with an OWP of .250 and an OOWP of .250, that isn't as good as, say, a team that goes 18-2 against a team with and OWP of .750 and an OOWP of .650.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BruinFan on February 13, 2010, 03:53:12 PM
Big game tonight between Linfield and George Fox. Winner goes into the final weekend a game up for the chance to host a conference play-off game. I see Wiser is playing again. Is a home game going to get the Wildcats back on track or will they lose their 4th in a row?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 13, 2010, 07:09:36 PM
Quote from: BruinFan on February 13, 2010, 03:53:12 PM
Big game tonight between Linfield and George Fox. Winner goes into the final weekend a game up for the chance to host a conference play-off game. I see Wiser is playing again. Is a home game going to get the Wildcats back on track or will they lose their 4th in a row?
I think Fox will win this game.  LINF is really looking vulnerable and better be careful in their last 3 games.  I am kinda hoping they HAVE to win next Sat against WW.  Selfish reasoning since I am gonna make the trip to see the game and want to see a contest that matters.

so:

FOX over LINF                FOX wants the home game
UPS over WHT                UPS plays with pride
LC over PAC                   if PAC wins this...we might be guaranteed an 8-8 4th place team
WW over PLU                 I wish we could just win this like last year .... JAN 17, 2009

David Riley sparked the 24th-ranked Pirates (12-3 overall, 4-2 NWC) to a dynamic first half lead of 57-14. Whitworth hit 75% of its shots in the half (24 of 32), including 9 of 16 from three point range. Meanwhile the Pirate defense was holding PLU to only 19% (6-32) from the field and Whitworth outrebounded the Lutes 26-11 in the period. A Riley three gave the Pirates a 22-2 lead six and a half minutes into the game and another Riley three made it 36-9 with under ten minutes left in the period. He scored five points in the final minute of the half, including a jumper at the buzzer for a 43-point halftime lead.  Riley (So., G, Palo Alto, Calif.) scored 34 of his career-high 37 points in the first half when he drained 8 of 12 from three point range.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 13, 2010, 11:49:50 PM
Something should tell all you prognosticators to stop doing it. LINFIELD 74-70.  I realize it's fun and harmless but it can make you look,well, .....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2010, 12:42:13 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 13, 2010, 11:49:50 PM
Something should tell all you prognosticators to stop doing it. LINFIELD 74-70.  I realize it's fun and harmless but it can make you look,well, .....
Before last night I am pretty sure that same team had lost 4 of 5?  Picking them to win would be, well, ....

Congrats to Linfield for clinching a playoff spot with the win over GF at HOME by 4 points.  Hope to meet you at the game next Sat D O.C.     :-X
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 16, 2010, 07:25:36 PM
So what are the predictions for the 2-4 spots in the NWC tournament?  We know who is in, but not the order.  Will Linfield hold on to a spot that seemed secure three weeks ago?

GFU and L&C will play each other, eliminating one from any chance at second place.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2010, 09:40:57 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 16, 2010, 07:25:36 PM
So what are the predictions for the 2-4 spots in the NWC tournament?  We know who is in, but not the order.  Will Linfield hold on to a spot that seemed secure three weeks ago?

GFU and L&C will play each other, eliminating one from any chance at second place.
Is PLU eliminated?  If they win both and GF loses both, don't they have a tiebreaker over GF because they split Linfield and GF lost both?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 17, 2010, 01:23:31 PM
Hoops:

You are right.  PLU is not eliminated.  But with the way they have been playing, they are the only ones giving themselves a chance.  5 losses in a row since upsetting Linf is not a good prelude to playing hot Wil and what would then be a desperate Fox team that had just lost to LC (assuming they did for this scenario to work).   Not a good outlook for PLU.

PCfan:

So lets say, the most probably 2-4 lineup has been set, here is my prediction.  Fox loses to a streaky LC team and wraps up the #4 seed and a trip to beautiful Spokane in the first round.  Linf splits and wraps up the #2 seed and a home game They will tie with LC (who sweeps the weekend with a win against UPS on Saturday), but win the tiebreaker having beat Fox twice.



WW is one win away from doing something hasn't been done ever before last year, win all 16 games in a season.  Now it will have been done 2 years in a row.  UPS was a great team with 3 great players and several very good ones.  WW joins the company of such a great team.  Congrats to WW on a great season! (Hope I didn't jinx them).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2010, 12:09:14 AM
All I care about is that Linfield has something to play for Sat night other than spoiling a perfect season.  Hours of driving for 1 game... :P

But I think Fox loses both.  I am paying attention to that WIl vs PLU game Friday.  PLU is my darkhorse/underdog.  I confess I would love to play them next Thu.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 19, 2010, 12:30:52 PM
Hoops:

Linf avoids the drive for game 1 by winning on Fri.  and they should do so, although Whitm played WW as tough as anyone has.  It would be just like a nothing-to-lose team to come in and beat a better team, Linf.

It depends on which Linf team shows up, the one that got beat by LC or the one that beat Fox.  They could sweep (it could happen!), get swept, or split.  I think they will split, but I thought they would lose to Fox and beat LC. 


I'm going to try this one more time.  Linf gets by Whitm, Pac beats UPS on the road, LC wins at Fox big, and Wil ends PLU's playoff hopes.  I will try the Sat games if I can get one win out of these.


Although WW is the class of the league, the other playoff game should be a good one, whoever it is and wherever it is.   The battle here is to stay out of the 4th spot to avoid the long trip and sure loss.

With 3 (probable) OR teams in the playoffs and WW graduating 3 of their best players, I would say the balance of power is shifting west and south, but they always seem to reload.  Word out of some LC players is that Gaillard is gone, so that drops them out of the mix.  Linf graduates 3 starters but has Wiser for one more, so they will be okay.  Fox graduates most of their rotation, so back they go.  Might be wide open next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 19, 2010, 01:59:42 PM
Wow TMT, you here Gaillord is done?  First one year it's James, and the next it's him....  Do they hand over the program to Foreman the way Willamette did to Ione?

Thanks for picking my Boxers to get UPS tonight!  But didn't you see that LC-Pac score?!, gutsy call coming back with a Pac win prediction.  What has happened to UPS?  Anybody know why Boyce has been out?  Read there was a fight in the Whitman-UPS game last weekend that led to some ejections, and I'm guessing automatic suspensions.  Any Logger faithful have any news?  Any Logger faithful out there period!?  The board needs you!

I'm going with Linfield over Whitman, Willamette over PLU, Pac over UPS, and the one I can't really call is LC and Fox, but I'll go with the home team in the game of the night.

You're right TMT, some balances may be shifting and things may continue to open up in this league.  Always evolving and changing I guess.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 19, 2010, 03:13:43 PM
NWCer:

I actually saw the LC-Pac game, and LC couldn't have played better for years.  As I said earlier, they always seem to match up well against Pac, but they were on fire that night.  But prior to that, Pac had won 4 out of 5.  They were playing well prior to LC, so I give them a nod against a lower echelon team.

I am going with LC over Fox for the same reason.  They have been playing pretty good lately, except against an improved Wil team, and if they play anywhere near where they did against Pac, they will beat Fox.

The Gaillard situation is just a rumor.  Biddy talked to a couple of players who sense this may be it.  Since Foreman is the Associate Head Coach, it must be likely he will take over, but the players would not be in favor of that.  With most of his team coming back, Gaillard might do one more year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 19, 2010, 03:26:48 PM
Yeah that sounds about right TMT, as far as the LC-Pac match up and that night in particular, and you may be right about the LC-Fox game.

Isn't Foreman the chief recruiter?  He brings most of the guys to Palatine Hill right?  Why wouldn't the players be in favor of him taking over?  Doesn't make a lot of sense...

Anyways, I promised myself I'm going to see my Boxers tomorrow night at Willamette.  I want to be there for their last game and see the Bartlett-Mithell matchup.  Any cool pre-game spots to hit up in Salem?



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on February 19, 2010, 06:52:24 PM
The RAM!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 19, 2010, 07:00:09 PM
Thanks 80sshorts, I will check it out, I have heard of that place before....  Never been...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2010, 07:26:12 PM
So much to read...it must be a Big Friday.  First off, talking about next year's team strengths is way to early.  If I told you WW will be better (true) than this year, some coaches might actually leave but speculating about coaching changes right now is premature or a below the belt attempt to rattle a team.  Lets stick to the here and now, after all we wait 48 weeks to get here!!!!

I don't know who, but I think one of the 3 teams ahead of PLU will implode.  Either way WW will get that team or
PLU, but an easy victory or "sure loss" is not automatic.  I think the Thu game will be more interesting than the Sat night championship.

What has to happen for LC to get #2?  No brown jokes please....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2010, 11:24:20 AM
PLU, loss....I won't say more.  The 4 teams are set and LIN has the #2 seed locked up. 

Great battle in the featured game last night with GF winning in OT.  Does GF need to win to guarantee the 3rd spot or can LC still get it? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BruinFan on February 20, 2010, 12:51:22 PM
My understanding is that George Fox has #3 all locked up now since they beat LC twice this season.
So, LC @ Whitworth and GFU @Linfield next Thursday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 21, 2010, 01:40:16 AM
WOW!  The Bucs go 16-0 in the conference...23-2 overall!  Host the Pioneers on Thursday...should be a good game but my Pirates will prevail!!!

With UWSP losing, should also be a great seed for the NCAA Tourney!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2010, 02:12:26 AM
I know it was a battle of bottom teams, but what a show Bartlett and Mitchell put on head to head, or at least some of the time because Mitchell wouldn't always guard Bartlett.  Regardless two talented guys, two very good graduating seniors.  Mitchell had more weapons around him, that was the difference in the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 21, 2010, 05:09:12 AM
Quote from: NWCer on February 19, 2010, 03:26:48 PM
Isn't Foreman the chief recruiter?  He brings most of the guys to Palatine Hill right?  Why wouldn't the players be in favor of him taking over?  Doesn't make a lot of sense...

He does do most of the recruiting but most of the players are not big fans of Dinari. Coach G was apparently going to leave in 2008 after Jeff Christensen (who transferred to Eastern Washington) would have graduated. But, he has stuck around perhaps with the desire to get back to the national tournament after coming close in 06-07.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2010, 12:15:43 PM
What a great season-long showing by Whitworth.  Way to go Bucs.  Last night's win at Linfield was never in doubt on the way to 16-0.

I give a lot of credit to Willamette.  Willamette started 1-9 and finished by winning 5 out of 6.  Pacific Lutheran's predicted collapse came true.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2010, 12:21:00 PM
Interesting....  Sounds like you have a history with Pio basketball Pio 20, not to throw you on the spot but would you be in favor of it (Foreman getting the job)?  We had a coaching change in baseball when I was in college and what I found out was that players input on a candidate usually doesn't carry much weight if they like a candidate, but does if they collectively don't one.  Good luck to all in that situation.  Sure seems like he's paid his dues, similar to Ione at Willamette.






Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2010, 12:22:03 PM
All-NWC guess:

MVP:  
Montgomery, Ww

First Team:
Beal, Ww
Tesoro, Lin
Bartlett, Pac
Edwards, L&C
Stockner, GF

Second Team:
Wiser, Lin
Riley, Ww
Shaw, Wm
McTaggert, PLU
Kollasch, L&C or Wisely, GF
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2010, 12:27:33 PM
Pineconefan - you have a major ommission there - Cameron Mitchell.

I would say Riley would have to be on first team as well, a team who blew away the league deserves the MVP and two other 1st teamers IMHO.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2010, 12:32:29 PM
I think you can throw Hollins on there in the mix with Edwards and Kollasch as LC's reps on the all-league team, his rebounding #'s look great.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2010, 11:49:24 PM
Right-o NWCer, should've included Mitchell somewhere on that list.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2010, 01:44:16 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on February 21, 2010, 12:22:03 PM
All-NWC guess:

MVP:  
Montgomery, Ww

First Team:
Beal, Ww
Tesoro, Lin
Bartlett, Pac
Edwards, L&C
Stockner, GF

Second Team:
Wiser, Lin
Riley, Ww
Shaw, Wm
McTaggert, PLU
Kollasch, L&C or Wisely, GF

If you look at that list above, is there anyone on it that would get significant playing time at WW? Mitchell and Bartlett hurt WW a little when they played them, but were still outplayed by Montgomery and the other players WW put in the post.  No guard or wing has done significant damage against them in any game (when it counted). At the Linfield game last night, Wiser could not stop either of WW's post players and they pretty much shut him down most of the night.  WW had 6 different players hit 3's.  They all looked like better shooters than any of Linfield's players. Beal, W Gebbers, and anyone else that brought the ball up against pressure had no problem.  Just because someone is the best player on their team, doesn't make them league All Star.  You don't represent your team on the All-Star team, you earn your spot. Just because Bo Gregg doesn't get to take 15 shots a game, are you really going to put Tesoro on the All League team over him. There is no comparison when you look at their overall games (defense, rebounding, scoring, feeding the post, etc).  Five guys from UPS made the All League teams last year (3 1rst team and 2 honorable mention).  The UPS team dominated the league, but were still challenged and they did not win the conference tournament.  I doubt WW loses this week.  WW is even more dominant this year than UPS was last year. They should have a minimum of 3 on the first team and 2 or 3 more on the second team or honorable mention.    
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2010, 11:45:58 AM
All NWC guesses:

POTY:      Nate Montgomery

1st team:
Nate Montgomery
David Riley
Eric Beal
Ross Bartlett
KC Wiser
Cameron Mitchell

2nd team:
Gregg
Stockner
Edwards
Tesoro
Hollins

HM:
Mounts
MacTaggart
Shaw
Wisely
Koach
Martin

COTY: Hayford
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2010, 10:00:26 AM
Whitworth leapfrogs Middlebury and takes #5 spot in the latest top 25.  This has to be a high water mark for NWC?
Anyone know?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on February 23, 2010, 02:44:40 PM
The Log Show reached #3 last year in Week 12's poll...and were ranked #4 preseason for the 2005-2006 season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2010, 02:47:38 PM
I knew that would bring out a UPS'r!  Yes Loggers did climb to #3 only to get knocked down to #7 in the next to last poll after WW upset them in conference tourney.  #3 sounds nice!  Let's see if WW can roll and a few of the top 4 falter.  Could happen!

Glad to know Loggers are still prowling the boards.  What's the mood like in West Tacoma?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPS Zeddy on February 23, 2010, 04:00:30 PM
Yes they did get knocked down to #7 after the Conference Tournament upset, only to smack the Bucs back to Spokane in season-ending fashion one week later.... ;D

I can't speak for West Tacoma at the moment but it was obviously a tough season for all of Logger Nation....however I have no doubt that Lunt + Co. will get things turned around quickly. Also very proud of guys like Gehring, Koach, and Levin to name a few for the character they showed when things weren't going so great. Those boys never quit.

As for the post-season, I previously thought that Linfield matched up with WW well enough to give them fits but at the end of they day, they are a .500 team and I don't see any chances of an upset in the NWC Tournament.

As for the Big Dance, I know it's customary for us NWCers and West Coasters to pull for one another ....but to be completely honest, I will never root for Whitworth in any capacity, ever. But I will say good luck!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2010, 10:28:50 PM
WW should win easily but they have to play the game.......84-65

GF wins in a close one 77-72

Anyone here got a ALL NWC team beside Pcone and I?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 25, 2010, 08:52:52 PM
Here's the actual team, from the NWC web page:

Coach of the Year:  Jim Hayford, Whitworth
Player of the Year:  Nate Montgomery, Whitworth

First Team All-NWC
Nate Montgomery, Whitworth (P, 6-8, 240, Sr./Sr., Sammamish, Wash. - Eastlake) [8]
Cameron Mitchell, Willamette (P, 6-7, 210, Sr., Portland, Ore. - Univ. of Redlands)
Eric Beal, Whitworth (G, 5-11, 184, Sr./Sr., Spokane, Wash. - Concordia Univ. [Calif.])
K.C. Wiser, Linfield (C, 6-8, 235, Jr./Jr.,  Tigard, Ore. - Tigard)
David Riley, Whitworth (F, 6-5, 200, Jr./Jr., Palo Alto, Calif. - Gunn)
Alex Stockner, George Fox (P, 6-5, 200, Sr./Sr., Monmouth, Ore. - Central)

Second Team All-NWC
Cody Tesoro, Linfield (PG, 6-0, 175, Sr./Sr.,  Kahului, Hawaii - Western Oregon Univ.)
Ross Bartlett, Pacific (Ore.) (P, 6-6, 220, Gr./Sr., St. Helens, Ore. - St. Helens) [1]
Josh Kollasch, Lewis & Clark (G, 6-3, 195, Sr., Tucson, Ariz. - Sabino)
James Hollins, Lewis & Clark (G, 6-3, 193, So., Phoenix, Ariz. - St. Mary's HS)
Kelly Edwards, Lewis & Clark (G, 6-3, 185, Jr., Bellevue, Wash. - O'Dea)

Honorable Mention
Stephen Wiseley, George Fox (PG, 5-9, 170, Jr./Jr.)
Jack Martin, George Fox (W, 5-11, 180, Sr./Sr.)
Kyle MacTaggart, Pacific Lutheran (W, 6-4, 180, Jr./Jr.)
Colin Koach, Puget Sound (G, 6-1, 185, Sr./Sr.)
Brandon Shaw, Whitman (G, 6-2, 170, So./So.)
Bo Gregg, Whitworth (F, 6-5, 200, Sr./Sr.)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2010, 10:23:26 PM
WOW!!  I got 16 of 17 of the players on the list, haha  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 25, 2010, 10:52:58 PM
Nwchoops - you are indeed a pro!  Could you tell me my lucky numbers please!?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2010, 11:59:23 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2010, 02:47:38 PM
I knew that would bring out a UPS'r!  Yes Loggers did climb to #3 only to get knocked down to #7 in the next to last poll after WW upset them in conference tourney.  #3 sounds nice!  Let's see if WW can roll and a few of the top 4 falter.  Could happen!
#3 St. Thomas loses, next up Guilford?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2010, 01:28:40 AM
GF plays as well as they can for the first 8 minutes and still trailed by 6.  The beginning of the game was awesome as both teams traded punches but ultimately WW showed greater depth and composure.  Great crowd showed some spirit and some skin.

WW takes control and is never seriously challenged.  Win streak rolls to 97-75 win with Clay Gebbers adding some offensive punch to the loaded Pirates now 25-2.  Good luck representing the NWC, and go deep Bucs!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 28, 2010, 02:10:53 AM
Congrats to WW on a great season! 

I am sure they will represent the NWC with class in the playoffs.  They are tough, deep, and well disciplined. 

LC and Fox gave them all they had, and came up well short.  They could and should go far in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 28, 2010, 07:23:59 PM
That's OK Larry Doty, Ted Wilson never won a game in Kansas City before he retired.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2010, 10:22:06 AM
Morning out there. Interesting looking bracket.

Bracket: http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/mbb-bracket2010.pdf
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 01, 2010, 10:30:59 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2010, 10:22:06 AM
Morning out there. Interesting looking bracket.

Bracket: http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/mbb-bracket2010.pdf
Looks Great.  Some nice changes and opportunities.

Question:  On the front page the comment was made that the winner of the Whitworth v (CMS/Chapman) game would end up in the eastern time zone.  Is that assuming Eastern Mennonite would win?  What if EM loses?  Could Whitworth host that sectional based upon record?

GO BUCS !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2010, 11:29:10 AM
There's basically zero chance they fly three teams to the West Coast for Whitworth to host when they can fly Whitworth east and drive the other two teams to a host school.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 01, 2010, 11:30:56 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2010, 11:29:10 AM
There's basically zero chance they fly three teams to the West Coast for Whitworth to host when they can fly Whitworth east and drive the other two teams to a host school.

I forget the economics part of this system.  Also, I didnt look at the whole region to see Guilford above us.  It would take a miracle for us to host...a guy can dream can't he?

Thanks Pat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2010, 01:45:29 PM
I like Virginia
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 01, 2010, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2010, 01:45:29 PM
I like Virginia
I have not been to Virginia in over 20 years...

So if my plans come to fruition, the Bucs will be there for 2 straight weekends, and I will get to join them!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 01, 2010, 05:41:35 PM
Way to go Pirates.  What a great season so far.  Keep it going deep into the tournament.

Looking forward to seeing either C-M-S or Chapman on Saturday. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2010, 11:04:34 AM
#4 in the new Top 25!  A new high for the program!  Congrats to a very good team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 03, 2010, 12:55:11 PM
I see that Lewis & Clark played at U of Portland last night.  How is that even possible?  Isn't there a rule about playing games after a certain date (other than post-season)?

T-M-T, any insight from your L&C connection?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 03, 2010, 01:13:36 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 03, 2010, 12:55:11 PM
I see that Lewis & Clark played at U of Portland last night.  How is that even possible?  Isn't there a rule about playing games after a certain date (other than post-season)?

T-M-T, any insight from your L&C connection?

I'm a Pilots fan, so I was listening to the UP radio broadcast.  The Portland radio guys were giving huge props to Whitworth during the game.  At least four or five times they brought up what a great season the Bucs had, mentioning their record, their conference title, etc.  Nice to get D-I recognition of an outstanding D-III team.

As for the rule, the only thing I saw in the NWC rulebooks is that teams aren't allowed to play more than 25 regular season games.  Prior to last night, L&C had only played 24.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 04, 2010, 01:06:31 AM
Press,
Thanks for the note about the UP radio mention of Whitworth. 

But regarding the schedule, I am pretty sure there is more to it than just 25 games.  There is a definite date before which the teams cannot schedule games (but exhibitions are ok).  And there must be some kind of date at the end too, otherwise you'd see a bunch more of these.

Something definitely out of the ordinary happened on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2010, 01:16:35 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 04, 2010, 01:06:31 AM
Press,
Thanks for the note about the UP radio mention of Whitworth. 

But regarding the schedule, I am pretty sure there is more to it than just 25 games.  There is a definite date before which the teams cannot schedule games (but exhibitions are ok).  And there must be some kind of date at the end too, otherwise you'd see a bunch more of these.

Something definitely out of the ordinary happened on Tuesday.

Certainly out of the ordinary, but I can't find an end date rule.

With things like the ECAC (kind of an east coast NIT for d3), specific rules on end dates would be problematic.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2010, 03:03:17 AM
I believe the ECAC offers us an end date guidepoint, actually. The reason all the various little ECAC tournaments don't end in one final champion is because you can only play one week past the end of the regular season.

And I believe you can only do that if you have saved yourself a week for competition by taking a week off during the season, usually done around the holidays. But don't quote me on that -- there's a reason I am not a compliance officer.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2010, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 04, 2010, 01:06:31 AM
Press,
Thanks for the note about the UP radio mention of Whitworth.  

But regarding the schedule, I am pretty sure there is more to it than just 25 games.  There is a definite date before which the teams cannot schedule games (but exhibitions are ok).  And there must be some kind of date at the end too, otherwise you'd see a bunch more of these.

Something definitely out of the ordinary happened on Tuesday.
Yes unusual but perhaps a shape of things to come.  For a D3 school to get a game like this, it is all about money.   I wonder what LC had done with this game had they advanced to the tourney.  Cancel or play and risk injury?  Treat it as a "warmup"?  Maybe the conference competition committee's will have to look into this during the offseason.  I was relieved to NOT see the game recap on the conference website.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2010, 03:30:28 PM
Don't forget, final three-plus hours to enter the D3hoops.com bracket challenge.

You have extra time for the women's bracket, since the first game isn't until 4 p.m. ET on Friday.

http://www.d3hoops.com/pickem/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on March 05, 2010, 10:42:28 AM
NWC followers - you guys get Chapman.

They made all the plays down the stretch holding the Stags to just 3 points in the last 7 minutes, closing the game on a 14-3 run.

Should be a pretty routine game in the Fieldhouse from what I gather.

Chapman is not big, but they are physical and do the fundamentals very well. I don't think they can hang for 40 minutes though.

I think Montgomery will have his way with the Panther bigs, and Beal/Wood matchup should be very interesting.

I think WW wins 71-54.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 05, 2010, 12:57:30 PM
Whitworth's coaches should be fairly familiar with Chapman.  The Bucs beat Chapman by 15 or 16 down in SoCal early last season.  It seems the personnel are real similar to the last meeting.

I am sure that Whitworth get's Chapman's best punch.  It'll be a great environment in the fieldhouse.  Not sure Chapman will be used to that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 05, 2010, 05:39:01 PM
You might have to subscribe to the Spokesmanreview to read this, but here is a great article on Big Nate:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/mar/05/montgomery-grew-from-blip-to-mvp/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on March 05, 2010, 08:35:02 PM
The word about the LC-UP game was that UP wanted a tune-up game for their tournament and offered a game to LC.  Yeah, Hoops, it is/was all about money, and a chance for the D3 kids to play on a D1 court and against a D1 school.  I didn't get to see the game, but LC was down 8 with 8:00 to go before UP went on a big run. 

It would be weird to play a game after your season is over, and it would have been a good warmup for the D3 tourny had they made it.  Gaillard probably looked at the team and WW and felt getting to the dance was going to be improbable, and took the money and ran. 

Good luck to WW this weekend!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 06, 2010, 05:51:43 PM
QuoteD3 kids to play on a D1 court

Well, whoop dee woo. Glad to see they upgraded their facilities in 1984. They were a D1 dump when Lewis and Clark built their 'non-wood' floor and the Pilots used to go there and play in the summer.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2010, 12:25:00 AM
Whitworth advances to the SWEET 16.  Defeats Chapman!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2010, 03:06:10 PM
Times set:  EMU vs Whitworth at 6 pm and Guilford vs College of Wooster at 8 pm on Friday night in GC's Ragan-Brown Field House on Friday, March 12.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 08, 2010, 04:52:38 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2010, 12:25:00 AM
Whitworth advances to the SWEET 16.  Defeats Chapman!

Here is my analysis of the game for those who missed it: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5506.90
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 09, 2010, 12:01:55 AM
Been around Whitworth sports for a long time.  I remember the unexpected run to the NAIA tournament in 1991 and the NAIA DII runner-up year in 1996.  We've had some impressive years in the 2000's.  But Saturday night in the Fieldhouse was the best environment I've ever seen.  Way more than the listed attendance of 1,760.  An awesome way for the seniors to spend their last night playing at home.

Good luck to the Pirates in Greensboro.  We'll be watching/listening.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2010, 12:04:19 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 09, 2010, 12:01:55 AM
Been around Whitworth sports for a long time.  I remember the unexpected run to the NAIA tournament in 1991 and the NAIA DII runner-up year in 1996.  We've had some impressive years in the 2000's.  But Saturday night in the Fieldhouse was the best environment I've ever seen.  Way more than the listed attendance of 1,760.  An awesome way for the seniors to spend their last night playing at home.

Good luck to the Pirates in Greensboro.  We'll be watching/listening.
I heard or read 3000.  Is that even possible?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on March 09, 2010, 12:21:10 AM
I doubt that many.  I'd put it closer around 2300 or 2400.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 09, 2010, 12:23:48 AM
Quote from: pineconefan on March 09, 2010, 12:21:10 AM
I doubt that many.  I'd put it closer around 2300 or 2400.
Even that is amazing!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 12, 2010, 10:05:13 AM
All Right People - Game time in 8 hours !  GO BUCS !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on March 12, 2010, 09:45:49 PM
Not the same WW team that ran through the NWC!  Was it the level of competition being a lot higher or the travel or ????  They seemed tentative and a little sloppy. 

Riley seemed to struggle toward the end of the season and today too.  He was soooo wet through most of the season!  Did he "slump" towards the end?

Beal seemed to wipe his hands at every dead ball in the second half, and the announcers (terrible job, by the way) said it was real warm in the gym.  I wonder if that played a role. 

Whatever, WW had a great season and should be proud!  I thought they would go further, but I am sure they did too.  They seemed to have it all, great shooters, inside presence, good defense, etc.  Tough loss for the seniors.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2010, 10:00:40 PM
Super tough loss.  I think they played great interior defense on NM and they were quicker.  Good players and some decent shooting from outside when in MATTERED.  We missed more open looks than we should have.  I know they don't all go in, but we didn't make them when it DIDN'T matter and, of course, they ALL matter.  Gregg was very good and Nate was pretty good.  I was very surprised to see Beal not play a bigger role on offense.  He seemed apprehensive to shoot or create shots for himself but I wasn't there so its hard to say.  Riley never got on track the last 10 games.  Missing 3 FT's in a row was pivotal and that's all I can say about that.  Travel was not an issue, nor the early start (EST) or fouls.  We just lost because we didn't build up a lead when we could have.

Great season and losing sucks.  We will look back on this year and be very impressed however,  tonight will not be easy for the Pirates who believed they could make it to Salem or us fans.  Next week or sometime soon the season will have a better perspective.  Just ended a bit to soon.  Congrats to EMU and good luck from here on out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 12, 2010, 10:45:53 PM
Good year by WW.  They were the real deal.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sludge on March 13, 2010, 12:38:35 AM
Whitworth looked very well organized and deliberate in their approach to the game tonight against Eastern Mennonite.  It almost won the game for WW, with some weak free throws from EMU. 

I thought it was a weird second half (I missed the first half), and Whitworth is a good team.  EMU is athletic for sure, but doesn't run plays as well as some teams.  It works for them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 3peatchamp10 on March 13, 2010, 12:56:59 AM
WW finally dropped one. the pirates certainly did have a good season and should be very happy about everything they accomplished. that being said, I can't say that im disappointed that WW lost tonight, just means that my undefeated loggers made it deeper last year than than this years undefeated rats.  ;D

now its onto looking forward to next season in the nwc. im sure WW will reload like they always do, ups is looking to bring in a huge recruiting class (in terms of # of recruits, not recruit size/height), anybody have any insight on the rest of the league?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: matty on March 13, 2010, 02:01:27 PM
hello, odac fan and virginia wesleyan alumnus here...

i live in raleigh, nc so i was fortunate enough to be at the games last night. not just as an odac fan but a fan of d3 college basketball all around. very entertaining.

didn't realize whitworth travelled from washington state to greensboro. you represented your school very well last night. i really enjoyed whitworths physical play. it really seemed to bother mennonite whenever they tried to dribble the ball in the paint #44 and some of your other big men were right there to steal the ball or block passing lanes. you almost had it at the end there...a play or two away from winning against an athletic emu team is not something to be ashamed of.

just wanted to say congrats on the season and good luck in the future.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 24, 2010, 03:46:01 PM
Final poll for 2009-2010 has Whitworth Pirates at #7.  Congrats on a FANTASTIC season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 80sshorts on April 28, 2010, 03:55:58 PM
Jason Lowery out at Pacific University to take Girls Basketball Head Coaching position at nearby Jesuit High School in Beaverton-  http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/-2374332988089518107/basketball-jesuit-hires-jason-lowery-to-coach-girls-team/

Anyone aware of potential coaching replacements at Pacific?  Will they hand it to one of the assistants, look outside, or is it just simply too early to tell?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on April 28, 2010, 07:34:41 PM
Thanks 80sshorts

I'm sure it's probably too early?

Best of Luck Coach Lowery (here's an article a little different than the one 80sshorts put up)

http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/7807399747538570205/for-coach-jason-lowery-appeal-of-jesuit-drew-him-to-high-school-job/

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 3peatchamp10 on May 03, 2010, 05:12:33 PM
Quote from: 80sshorts on April 28, 2010, 03:55:58 PM
Jason Lowery out at Pacific University to take Girls Basketball Head Coaching position at nearby Jesuit High School in Beaverton-  http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/-2374332988089518107/basketball-jesuit-hires-jason-lowery-to-coach-girls-team/

Anyone aware of potential coaching replacements at Pacific?  Will they hand it to one of the assistants, look outside, or is it just simply too early to tell?

wow, didn't see that one coming, just saw him a couple months ago at the WA state tourney in Tacoma, figured he was out watching a couple kids he had recruited
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 23, 2010, 11:35:40 PM
Quote from: JizzleJuice84 on May 23, 2010, 12:32:39 PM
Nobody cares what you think ...

Please stop reposting this. I have removed it -- several times -- for a reason. Check the Terms of Service if you have questions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 08, 2010, 10:51:33 PM
Pretty big news out of Lewis & Clark: http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/10/former_trail_blazers_star_terr.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on October 15, 2010, 09:59:00 AM
Who will be the favorite in the NWC this year?  Is there an NWC team we should be looking at as a preseason Top 25 candidate?  Seems like Whitworth lost a lot from that great team last year...


#7 Whitworth (26-3 overall, 16-0 NWC) – West

Starters Returning: (2) F David Riley, 6-5 SR (13.4 ppg, 3.8 rpg), G Clay Gebbers, 6-1 SR (5.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg)

Starters Lost: (3) C Nate Montgomery, 6-8 (16.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg), G Eric Beal, 5-11 (14.3 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 5.7 apg), F Bo Gregg, 6-5 (11.5 ppg, 4.9 rpg)

Top Returning Reserve: F Jack Loofburrow, 6-6 JR (8.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg)

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4097.5655


Are they expected to reload, or is someone else the favorite?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on October 28, 2010, 01:44:05 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on October 15, 2010, 09:59:00 AM
Who will be the favorite in the NWC this year?  Is there an NWC team we should be looking at as a preseason Top 25 candidate?  Seems like Whitworth lost a lot from that great team last year...


#7 Whitworth (26-3 overall, 16-0 NWC) – West

Starters Returning: (2) F David Riley, 6-5 SR (13.4 ppg, 3.8 rpg), G Clay Gebbers, 6-1 SR (5.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg)

Starters Lost: (3) C Nate Montgomery, 6-8 (16.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg), G Eric Beal, 5-11 (14.3 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 5.7 apg), F Bo Gregg, 6-5 (11.5 ppg, 4.9 rpg)

Top Returning Reserve: F Jack Loofburrow, 6-6 JR (8.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg)

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4097.5655


Are they expected to reload, or is someone else the favorite?
Whitworth has reloaded with some impressive newcomers and returns some key players not mentioned above.  Felix Freidt will play the post and has size.  Wade Gebbers could be a First Team conference player this season as a sophomore.   Senior transfer player Michael Taylor is special.  Whitworth is excited to have this former D1, Big Sky, FOTY on the roster.  WW's depth inside goes 6'8, 6'7, 6'8, 6'8, 6'6. 

Replacing Montgomery is the most difficult for obvious reasons ALL AMERICAN, a great player.  Very good players are always missed, Beal and Gregg's replacements are up to the task of maintaining their excellence.

WW has 5 players that can post 20+ performances on any night.  I think this team might set school record for point differential this season.

Should WW get off to a good start (5-0), I think they will vault into top8 in national poll.

Finally, NWC preseason coaches poll was released today.

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/news/poll

2010-11 Men's Basketball Coaches Pre-Season Poll:
    School                     (1st)   Pts.     2009-10 All      2009-10 NWC
1. Whitworth (Wash.)  (9)     90         26-3                        16-0
2. Linfield (Ore.)                    62         12-13                      10-6
3. Lewis & Clark (Ore.)          58         10-16                       9-7
4. George Fox (Ore.)             42         13-14                       9-7
4. Pacific Lutheran (Wash.)   42         9-14                         7-9
4. Whitman (Wash.)              42         12-13                     6-10
7. Willamette (Ore.)               35         9-16                      6-10
8. Puget Sound (Wash.)        34         9-16                       5-11
9. Pacific (Ore.)                      10         8-17                      4-12



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on October 28, 2010, 07:53:40 PM
ooops just kidding about Terry Porter being a LC coach:
http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/releases/Terry_Porter_statement
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 29, 2010, 12:32:12 AM
Hey, everyone.  Late start this year.  

Funny how the coaches poll mimics last years standings/league records.  Whitworth is definitely the number one seed.  No more to say.

Linfield #2?  Seems too high to me.  They lost 2 senior point guards and one of the best in the league in Tesoro, and only have a slower (for point guard), young Vance returning.  They also lost Schroeder, Weber, Paul and Rainwater.  That's a lot.  I heard Wiser had back surgery this summer.  Is he back healthy?

My biddy says the Pioneers got some good recruits, very athletic, but not very big.  Their big man last year was a bust, but Meuwsen could be beast inside this year.  They have 8 new faces and only 6 returning, so chemistry could be a factor.  Could be an interesting team if the recruits are as good as advertised.  Porter was supposed to be a part-timer at best, but you can't be affiliated with both the NBA and any college team in any capacity.  He was never really intended to be a full time coach.  3rd seems right.

Fox lost 7 seniors, 6 regular participants and 3 starters (I think), so I can't see them in the 4th spot (tied).    I see them back in the lower portion of the league.

PLU is an enigma to me.  They have a few starters back, but they weren't that good last year.  MacTaggart, Trondsen and Bull can play, but do they have enough of a supporting cast to compliment them?  They tend to fade as the season goes on, and they just don't seem to play up to their talent level (time for a coaching change?).  Another team probably ranked too high.

Whitman will be better this year, but how much is a real question.  14 players on their roster is not enough to run a Bridgeland system, and I heard a rumor the kid from Newberg left the team and school.  4th to 6th seems about right for them.  

Willamette finished last year very strong, a real tribute to Coach Ione.  But they are again young with 8 freshmen coming in and one of, if not the best, players in the conference last year in Mitchell gone, and only 2 seniors back.  I think they are ranked too low.

My how UPS has fallen!  Their roster is not up, so I can't tell who is coming back and how many they brought in.  But 8th?  Seems like they have enough talent returning to finish much higher than that!  Is Lunt under the microscope? 

Pac U has a new coach, and I hear he is a good one.  But the senior Ross is gone and so is the Boxer's hopes.  I heard a couple of others are gone too with knee injuries, so it may be a long year for NWCer and Pac U.  But keep the faith, if the coach is as good as I hear, they will be good soon.

What is the word out there for new players on these teams?  Sound off, we are getting a late start and the games will begin soon.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on October 29, 2010, 01:59:56 PM
Yes TMT, could be a long year....

Lunt was perfect in the conference the season before last, but now you think he's under the microscope?  Wow, I guess it's what have you done for me lately?........

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 31, 2010, 07:27:02 PM
I don't know if he is under the microscope or not, just wondering.  It usually is "what have you done for me lately", and now that Bridgeland's recruits are gone, it is all on Lunt.  Not trying to berate him, but now he is dealing with his own recruits, and has fallen off the top tier pretty fast.  He just seems more like a high school coach than a college coach to me.  His animation and antics on the sidelines doesn't seem to be working now that the talent level has dropped off (eg Williams, Foster and Kraul are gone).

It will be very interesting who he brings in this year and how well they respond to him.  Seems like there was chemistry problems last year. 

Anyone have any information on who and how many they brought in?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 02, 2010, 08:18:00 PM
Not often you can take positives from a 30 point loss, but PLU must be looking at their game with Seattle U. as such.  Bull, McTaggert, Schilling all shooting the ball well against a D1 is not bad.  54% from the field from these guys will win most games.  They may not be deep, but their top 6 or 7 can be effective in this league.  Might be that 4th seed come February.

Good job, Lutes!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 03, 2010, 01:20:12 PM
DII Seattle Pacific and Central Washington are picked to finish first and second in this winter's Great Northwest Athletic Conference men's basketball race.
The Falcons received eight first-place votes and a pair of seconds, while the Wildcats received one first-place vote and seven seconds in the Coaches annual pre-season poll.

Yesterday WW played a closed door scrimmage against CWU.  Game officials and clock, no scoreboard and no 1&1 free throws.  CWU scored the 7 of the first 9 points.  After that I can safely say, WW outscored CWU the rest of the game.  When I say safely I mean 10+ points.  WW undoubtably left Ellensberg with Coach Sparling's respect and Coach Hayford happy.

Everyone (14) that dressed played minutes for WW, including all freshman.  An eye opener for some of the young guys in their first college experience, good minutes from some other players outside the first 7.  Very encouraging and a positive early experience for WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 10, 2010, 01:01:01 PM
The 2 games on the 6th provide some interesting points. 

Pacific gets stomped by NW Naz, as was probably expected.  Their big gun, Anglin, didn't play in that one.  Big loss leads to a big loss.  Without him, PU will be in big trouble.  With him, they might squeak out a few wins.  McElwee looks like he might have a good season.

Whitman goes to a NAIA I school and does pretty well.  Down by only 9 points late in the game after a big first half deficit, they outscore San Jose St by 8 in the 2nd half to lose by 17.  But they were over 50% (18-35) from the 3, and only 3 of the 9 players playing over 10 minutes were upperclassmen (3 frosh and 3 soph).   3 fouled out and 2 had 4.  Looks like they are playing very aggressively (no surprise) and shooting the ball well.  Bridge's 2nd season might be a successful one!  Watch out for the Missionaries!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 3peatchamp10 on November 10, 2010, 01:37:19 PM
Nice that its finally time to talk college hoops again! I am expecting UPS to be much improved this year. They have a whole new team out there this year, very young but might be pretty tough once they get the system down. If UPS actually finished 8th in the NWC this year i would be surprised. If i woke up tomorrow i wouldn't be more surprised. seriously though I think that they will actually benefit from that though and catch people by surprise.

On to other things posted...Sounds like WW will be tough again this year, big surprise there. Hayford does a great job of reloading the talent, but i dont think that replacing a player like montgomery is going to go flawlessly.

Anybody else hear that Whitman lost to their Alumni? Cause that was word on the street over on the west side. Also heard that one of their top players from last year quit. Insight anybody?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 16, 2010, 01:13:03 PM
Pio20:  Did you make the game last night?  I had to work and couldn't be there.  So I go for the stats.

Who is Master's College?  I googled them, and they are a small, Christian, NAIA div 1 school in a tough SoCal conference with a 18-13 record last year.  They have some height with front line players of 6-6, 6-7, 6-8 and 6-11.  

Turns out it was a big win for the Pios then.  Low scoring game with neither team shooting too well, both 36% from the field and 25-28% from the 3, and lots of turnovers.  But good news for the Pios:  the bigs went 8 for 14 and McCullough, who went like 10 games last year without getting into double digits in TOTAL points or TOTAL rebounds, going for 6 and 9.  Not great, but a much better start.  

Large minutes from the starters, may take awhile for the new guys to fit in.

Up next:  Willamette and UPS tonight, both too far into WA to get to (more stats analysis tomorrow), and two tough places to play.  I don't see wins for either team, but good luck to them!

The games have begun!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 18, 2010, 10:16:24 AM
Hey, TMT, how about them Loggers?
Well, they suck!  Poorly coached, Lunt should be fired!  No fan support, and they play in the worst venue in the league!
Pretty harsh TMT.  Why the animosity?
I just call 'em like I see 'em.
Whew!  How about the Pirates?
Hayford can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.  I heard he has to pay to get those JC transfers, and the school has had enough. He is about to be canned.  They lost too much last year to have a chance this year.  I have them about .500 in league.
You have to be kidding!  What a bomb?  Hayford cheating?
And from a very reliable source!
Stop.  How about the Pios?
O-V-E-R-A-T-E-D!!!  4th?  You have to be kidding!  How can you center a program around shooting the 3!  Gaillard is too old to coach anymore and should just pack it in.  They have no chance to finish in the top 4 this year.  They better get somebody who can actually hit a 3 at a better than 15% clip for next year!  This year is a washout.
Willamette?
Another terrible coach who never deserved the job in the first place.  He is living on Gordies reputation and has no chance of being successful.  Bad recruiting class this year, they may not win a game.
And the Boxers?
No Ross equals no talent equals no wins!  Welcome to the NWC, new coach!  I don't even know his name, and he won't be there long  enough for me to learn it.
Linfield?
Should be Lossfield.  After Wiser, they look like a high school team.  No fan support, they are terrible.
Having a bad day, TMT?  What is really eating on you?
Okay.  (Deep breath)(Another deep breath).  Here's the rub, games have begun, and we are still on the first page of this rag for this year!  And the first two posts are from last year!  If it weren't for TMT's long winded posts, we might be only half way down the column!  Where is everybody?  My hope is that some of you posters can't read well enough (Another deep breath, 1-2-3-4-5), get this far down this post, and light into me thinking this is for real.  Let's get this going.  I read somewhere that the NWC page is the joke of Posting Up (okay, another rib).  

Is there any life out there on this planet?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on November 18, 2010, 06:16:23 PM
Are you serious about Hayford? I think Whitman will be good this year! Unsure about everyone else except Whitworth. They will be good!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 18, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
Really impressive comeback win for Willamette tonight on the road at Concordia.  When Marcus Holmes gets in a zone, he just doesn't miss.  And Sean Dart didn't miss at all, going 9-9 from the field.  Not a bad way to rebound from the blowout loss at WWU on Tuesday.

Do I think this team's going to set the NWC on fire?  Probably not.  Somewhere between 5th and 7th sounds about right.  But when they're on, they can shoot the lights out, and it's important to note that two key players from last year's team, Terrell Malley and Cody Pastorino, are still sitting out while they transition from football season.

Also of note, the new floor at Cone Fieldhouse is now Gordie James Court.  The dedication is on Saturday.  Here's a great picture:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs062.snc4/34448_400365613066_64674138066_4683985_6944452_n.jpg
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on November 19, 2010, 01:05:56 AM
Quote from: etule on November 18, 2010, 06:16:23 PM
Are you serious about Hayford? I think Whitman will be good this year! Unsure about everyone else except Whitworth. They will be good!

Seriously, do you think he's serious about ANY of it?   It's called SARCASM.   Just trying to get a rise out of everyone so that the discussion will be lively.

Me, I'm waiting to see an actual game before I comment much.  Can't wait til Saturday and it's NOT about football. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BearcatChatter on November 19, 2010, 02:10:18 AM
BBaddict, I'm right there with ya. Basketball fever has taken ahold of me. I think this team is going to play very up-tempo ball, especially when Malley gets fully in the lineup.

My prediction? Watch Sean Dart take the league by storm this year :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 19, 2010, 08:53:19 AM
Funny.  I was also looking for some chatter.  Sat. night can't come soon enough.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 19, 2010, 11:42:16 AM
Wil fans:

I was at the game last night.  I was trying to figure out which game to go to, Wil or PU, and I guess I chose right.

I think your prediction of 5 through 7 seem like it might be low.  I thought they played very good defense and even though they got down big early, stayed in the game for a great final couple of minutes.  That defense could take them a long way.  They ending was classic, last team with the ball was gonna win.  Concordia is a good team, and Wil took them down.  I was very impressed.

A lot more one-on-than from past teams, but they seem to have the players to do it.  And Holmes going 6 for 7 from the 3!  Good times for the Bearcats.

NWCer:  

How could your Boxers lose to Portland Bible?  Did you get to see that game?  PB shot very well, especially from the 3.  Defense problem?  Interested in your take if you were there.

Nice to see some posts!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on November 19, 2010, 02:06:08 PM

I was not there TMT......

And by the looks of that Box Score, wow.......  Maybe I made the right decision not to go......  Man it could be a long season in the Grove......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 19, 2010, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 19, 2010, 11:42:16 AM
I think your prediction of 5 through 7 seem like it might be low.  I thought they played very good defense and even though they got down big early, stayed in the game for a great final couple of minutes.  That defense could take them a long way.  They ending was classic, last team with the ball was gonna win.  Concordia is a good team, and Wil took them down.  I was very impressed.

I hope you're right.  I just remember the second game of last season, when the Bearcats took out Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (a team that won the SCIAC and made the NCAA tourney) pretty easily, only to follow that with a bunch of losses to teams they should have beaten.  The defense is going to be key.

Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 19, 2010, 11:42:16 AM
A lot more one-on-than from past teams, but they seem to have the players to do it.

This is what concerns me, but maybe it's because I'm still used to Gordie-ball.  One-on-one gets you in trouble when you're not hitting (i.e. the first half yesterday).  What really impressed me was the passing down the stretch.  There was one play late in the game where either Kunke or Mounts drew three guys on a fast-break before passing to a wide-open Sean Dart under the basket.  That was pretty.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 20, 2010, 02:40:03 PM
Interesting matchups tonight.  PLU and UPS are trading partners for the dances in Tacoma, and we get an early comparison between the two teams.  I couldn't make it out last night, but watched the big lead for UPS almost completely vanish on live stats against UCSB before they held on to win.  What was the game like, UPS fans?  UPS should be in trouble tonight.

PLU holds a 15 point lead over the #12 St. Tommies with 14 minutes to go in the game before giving it all back in just 6 minutes and lose by 3 in the first game.  Still, not a bad result for the Lutes against a ranked team.  Just how good are the Lutes?  Should be good enough for a V tonight.

Fox did the same thing as UPS, but was not able to hold on against Corbin.  Tonight Corbin goes to PU.  The Boxers get into the win column tonight (should be a good game to go to, NWCer), and we get an early glimpse of who has the advantage of the bottom two teams in the league.  I watched the second half of that game on computer video.  Neither team looked very good at all!

NW is at Fox, who drilled UPS by 50 4 days ago.  Could be, er...will be ugly in Newberg tonight!

Whitman is at P Bible, who had a big lead at PU before winning by a dozen in a shootout.  But PB's 6 players will wear down against Whit and will lose big.  Whit played a not-so-good JV team last night and probably set some school records in a lopsided win.  PB's guards will give them a rough time, though.

Its early, but the comparisons are fun watch play out.  4 games in the Portland area tonight.  Which one to go to?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BearcatChatter on November 21, 2010, 10:39:01 AM
I'm usually never one too utter the phrase "tough loss, but we saw a lot of good come out of it," but I think Willamette's game against NW Christian qualifies. The Beacons were far bigger than us across the board, coupled with a pair of lightening-quick guards that made me miss Terrell Malley and Cody Pastorino (mandatory transition week from football). They are a scholarship program, and it showed.

As far as the game goes, we got ourselves into a hole early with bad shots and what I thought was a lack of intensity. Went into the first half with a score that paralleled the girl's game at half(NOT something good). Just as I suspected however, the 'Cats came out with a completely different attitude second half. Mounts and Meehan played like leaders; Kunke played well, but I think he has more in him. Marcus Holmes left something to be desired, having an off-game from deep (2-7, and really nothing down the stretch).

But man, I gotta tell you and Sean Dart. I was worried about a lack of Cam Mitchell, but Dart takes care of his presence on the offensive end. Defensive end, he's getting there. He's so mobile, moved deceptively quickly, and seems to always find the basket. He was also ALL OVER the boards, and plays determined basketball, which I love. Heck of a player, so glad he transferred.

What the game came down to was free throws, and our inability to make a stop down the stretch. We'd play such committed, disciplined defense only for them to pass their way around our zone for a shot. We were just one step behind. Like said, we'll get there. Ioane was subbing almost every change of possession toward the end, which leads me to think conditioning isn't quite there yet either.

The most important thing from the game that I took is that we were able to find good shots 2nd half. We were overmatched athletically, but used good basketball IQ to find the open man. Patience is a virtue hard to teach in basketball, especially in game thats inevitably just counting down, but we displayed excellent signs of it.

2 More notes (This is long, I know) Congrats to Gordie James for having the court named in his honor. I scored an interview with him, and man BCP, you were right, he's ALL about the team. Great guy though, very funny. As mentioned before, having Malley and Pastorino back will be HUGE for a back court that looked a little slow tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BearcatChatter on November 21, 2010, 10:40:10 AM
BCP, I was also thinking, hasn't the court at Cone Fieldhouse had Gordie's name on it for some time? Why are we just getting around to the dedication now?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 21, 2010, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: BearcatChatter on November 21, 2010, 10:40:10 AM
BCP, I was also thinking, hasn't the court at Cone Fieldhouse had Gordie's name on it for some time? Why are we just getting around to the dedication now?

Mostly since Gordie never coached volleyball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 21, 2010, 06:05:41 PM
WW looked pretty solid last night.  74-50 in control the whole way.  PLU looks improved and UPS was overmatched last night.  Games!!  I am glad hoops is back.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BearcatChatter on November 22, 2010, 03:30:55 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on November 21, 2010, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: BearcatChatter on November 21, 2010, 10:40:10 AM
BCP, I was also thinking, hasn't the court at Cone Fieldhouse had Gordie's name on it for some time? Why are we just getting around to the dedication now?

Mostly since Gordie never coached volleyball.

Still, I swear the name was on their even last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 22, 2010, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: BearcatChatter on November 22, 2010, 03:30:55 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on November 21, 2010, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: BearcatChatter on November 21, 2010, 10:40:10 AM
BCP, I was also thinking, hasn't the court at Cone Fieldhouse had Gordie's name on it for some time? Why are we just getting around to the dedication now?

Mostly since Gordie never coached volleyball.

Still, I swear the name was on their even last season.

Nope.  The new floor was installed over the summer.  Last year, there weren't any distinctive markings on the court other than "Willamette" on the baselines.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 22, 2010, 10:26:43 PM
Whitworth 2-0

Trinity (TX)  21 33 54
Whitworth  30 45 75

Whitworth held off a 8-0 run to start second half by Trinity.  Responded and built the lead to as much as 23 in second half.  VERY balanced scoring and shot 65% in second half.  Off to Hawaii and Carthage game on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 24, 2010, 03:11:56 PM
I was trying to figure out which game to go to last night, and picked the right one (with the help of Mother Nature).  LC at WP.

It was a great game, especially for the NWC and LC!  I sat behind the Warner Pac bench.  Bailey was at times mad and frustrated by PJ Taylor going off for 34 points in 32 minutes, and James Hollins taking the game over down the stretch before he fouled out.

The Knights had a huge size advantage, going 6-10, 6-6 and 6-5 across the starting front line with the Pio matching up with 6-5, 6-3 and 6-3.  WP seemed bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic than the Pios, but the Pios had more emotion.  Taylor shot from everywhere on the court and just blew up!  And everytime the Pios needed a basket, someone stepped up (Pisapia's two 3's in a row, Meeuwsen's 3 late, Edwards only basket of the game late, Perconti's big 3's, Hollins' freethrows down the stretch). 

I will say right now that if the Pios can play like that all season, the will finish in 1st place!  However......I don't see that happening.  They play with a lot of emotion, and it was all on their side last night.  It was a great win last night, but I foresee some ugly outings in the future, and probably some loses they shouldn't get.  Emotion is a two-headed creature.  It came help you and destroy you on any given night.

But what a ride last night!  A real fun game to watch!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 25, 2010, 03:01:16 AM
#5 Carthage vs #16 Whitworth Wed night in Honolulu

Whitworth wins 81-69.

Michael Taylor leads with 26, David Riley 20 (18 second half).  Whitworth out muscles and out rebounds Carthage by 16 and shoots 61% FG for game.  Cladis leads CU with 15 and SD has 13.

Redman shoot 14-25 from stripe.  WW 17-23 from the line.

Go Pirates!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 25, 2010, 01:48:53 PM
The way Whitworth is simply able to reload year after year after year never ceases to amaze me.

TMT - is L&C as reliant on threes as they have been in the past?  It seems like every year the Pios have a couple games where they're lights out and can beat anybody, followed by a couple games where they can't hit anything (i.e. vs. Willamette last year).

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 25, 2010, 02:47:52 PM
BP:

I have only seen them once this year, but if that game is any indication, it appears more so.  Their big center who outscored himself in the first game over the first 10 games last year, was in a cast reported to have occurred in that first game.  So their starting lineup was 4 guards and a forward, topping out at 6-5.  Not a good lineup to go inside.  In the first game and last game,  opponent's big men were taken out early and played very little, probably due to the outside shooting.

They probably will live and die by the 3, as in years past, but might be able to live a little more than in past years with more experienced guys and some new ones who can hit from outside.  As I said earlier, they play with a lot of emotion, and that will work for them and against them.  The maturity level will decide on most nights how that affects their game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out with a season opening night game against Whitworth in Portland (next week, already!).  Then WW goes to Mac to play Linfield.  If they get those two, it could be 16-0 again.



I like the improved league this year with LC, Linfield, Will, PLU, Whitman, and even Fox looking better than last year.  The OR teams may be able to hold their own this year.  Or,......a WA team (WW, even PLU) may take the league championship again.  

Great time of year!  The games have started, the holidays are here (Happy Thanksgiving everyone!), and league is just around the corner on this fresh season!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on November 27, 2010, 04:38:00 PM
Looks like UPS went to a very good Oxy team and pulled out a great win, these kids play real hard and once they figure out where the great looks are in the offense, they will be back on top of the conference. That baby bull Shelton is good!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2010, 06:27:42 PM
Welcome to the board Keandre.  UPS win is good for them and the NWC.  Any details of the game?  Look forward to more UPS news and posters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on November 27, 2010, 07:25:15 PM
A win at oxy and maybe a win against chapman can get this team going and build confidence. I see a great year in the wide open nwc after whitworth. Stay tuned for thoughts on chapman game. Go log show!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 27, 2010, 11:09:45 PM
WW wins in Hawaii 86-67.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on November 28, 2010, 06:57:30 AM
UPS loses to chapman by 7. Made it close after being down 20. If they play all 40 minutes like the last 10 of chapman game, they win by 25. The log show will put it together and will make a run at the league title.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 30, 2010, 11:18:07 AM
Since the games start tonight, I thought I would get out my predictions out first.
As those of you who have been around awhile know, I am terrible at this, but here goes.

Whitworth (everyone's first choice)
Lewis & Clark (undefeated so far and how they beat Warner Pacific)
Willamette (good size and very good defense)
Linfield (Wiser is too good)
PLU (Very good starting line-up, but lack depth)
Whitman (Time for Bridgeland's teams to step up, but really haven't so far)
UPS (Shelton is good, but others have to step up for them to be successful)
GF (Tough to get a read on them, but 4 average in double figures)
PacU (Definitely a rebuilding year)

The only thing for sure is this is not the way it will finish up.  We probably should wait to do this until the pre-league games are over.

I will take Wil over GF tonight, no....(I am always wrong, so..) GF over Wil, no.....(Wil is too good, so..) Wil over GF, no....(GF is winless, the underdog, so..).  Hell, I give up!  Coin flip, Wil over GF!  There, I just jinxed Wil!  Sorry Bearcat Press.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 30, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
GF wins on the road.

And Whitworth moves to #10 in the National Poll today.  Great start for Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BearcatChatter on December 01, 2010, 06:04:25 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 30, 2010, 11:18:07 AM
Willamette (good size and very good defense)

Ummmm, what? Now I'm as big of a Bearcat fan as there is around, but I wouldn't agree on either of those claims. Defense has been our weak point so far this year. The inability to get a stop down the stretch has lost us at least 2, maybe 3 games. As for size, Dart plays big at 6-6, but he's the only one. Mounts tends to play small at 6-5, and the rest of our steady contributors either have no size, or just don't use it accordingly.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 01, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on November 30, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
GF wins on the road.

And Whitworth moves to #10 in the National Poll today.  Great start for Pirates.


GF 91-88 over Willamette
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 01, 2010, 12:35:37 PM
WU has UPS on the road Friday, we will see how they bounce back in a pretty hostile environment after a tough loss to Fox.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 02, 2010, 11:47:50 PM
Games tomorrow night:

PLU over Pacific.
Linfield over Whitman (but a little worried about this one).
LC over Whitworth (a lot worried about this one, a battle of the undefeateds).
Willamette over UPS

I am 0 for 1 on the season, and might (read that probably) am guessing wrong on another 3 this weekend.  Go see your bookie and bet on exactly the opposite of what I predict and you can make good money!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 03, 2010, 11:38:08 AM
PICKS:

PLU..improved
Linfield...at home
Whitworth...nothing to worry about  ;)
Willamette...toss up, but I will always go against UPS in a toss up.   :o

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 03, 2010, 03:25:48 PM
I heard Fox has a studd out there, anyone see him play yet?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 03, 2010, 10:04:21 PM
Actually, they have two.

Michael Taylor is a 6-4 guard who is smooth, quick and has a good outside shot.  He has a bit of an attitude, and I can see someone taking a shot at him sometime.  A transfer, the junior adds a lot to this team.

The other one is Rich Smith, a 6-7 post player, has a nice touch around the basket.  A transfer from Concordia, he has improved a lot since last year. 

The two are averaging just under half of the teams 85 points per game, and create a good inside/outside tandem.  With Wisely and Colehurst, GF has a nice four-man group, but is drops off largely after that.

They will surprise some teams this year (just ask Willamette).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 04, 2010, 05:00:53 AM
Good for ups against willamette!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 04, 2010, 12:03:24 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 03, 2010, 11:38:08 AM
PICKS:

PLU..improved
Linfield...at home
Whitworth...nothing to worry about  ;)
Willamette...toss up, but I will always go against UPS in a toss up.   :o

Split, though I got the one I cared most about  :D 3-2 on then season

Pacific win is a surprise to me but congrats to their new coach on first NWC win.  UPS holds at home...like they should.

Tonight:

WW over LF, LC over Whitman, Pac over UPS, PLU over Fox
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 05, 2010, 06:09:05 PM
Ups looks like their D is getting better and the offense still has some work but went 2-0 this weekend. Good wins. Month until next league game, plenty of time to get better! Go log show!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 06, 2010, 12:48:04 PM
Given what Whitworth did on the road against the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the conference I have a couple questions?

1.  Is the conference down compared to past years?
2.  Is this Whitworth team as good as last year's team?
3.  Did Brewster High School ever record a shutout during a basketball game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 07, 2010, 12:14:17 PM
The Bucs are #7 now, and someone was even generous enough to give us a first place vote!  Thank you very much.

They are deep and fun to watch.  Going to be tough to slow us down IMO.

1> Too early to tell if the NWC is down, maybe just more balanced.
2> I think better.  This team is more balanced (sorry to repeat my adjectives), better from outside too.
3> LOL on the Brewster Hi comment...those 3 are fun to watch on the floor at the same time, good chemistry.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 07, 2010, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 06, 2010, 12:48:04 PM
Given what Whitworth did on the road against the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the conference I have a couple questions?

1.  Is the conference down compared to past years?
2.  Is this Whitworth team as good as last year's team?
3.  Did Brewster High School ever record a shutout during a basketball game?
I think the league is up this year and that leads to #2
I think they are actually improved.  This thought seemed crazy to me if I had said it 1 month ago.  But this team IS better at this point in the season than last years team at this point.  Last years squad from about now forward became REAL good.  This team now has to continue to improve if it wants to become a title contender just as last years team did.
3.  Funny.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 08, 2010, 12:13:39 PM
Saint Martins comes in to PLU and gets beat last night . Great game for the Lutes!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 09, 2010, 01:26:45 PM
So Whitworth is good again...what else is new?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 09, 2010, 01:33:13 PM
Etule:

What is with your Lutes?  They barely lose to NW, a decent to good team, then get beat by Eastern O (predicted), then lose to lowly PacU (wow), then spank GF and bead StM!  So on paper....they might beat CalLu and lose to CalTech this weekend?  Okay, the last part is a jab, but what happened against PacU?  Is PacU better than predicted or did your Lutes drop a bomb?

Last night was definitely a big win for them!  Hate to root for a WA team, but in this case I will for the NWC.

I think I'll pick PSU over GF tonight.  (I may get one right for once!).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 09, 2010, 01:52:10 PM
Quote from: etule on December 08, 2010, 12:13:39 PM
Saint Martins comes in to PLU and gets beat last night . Great game for the Lutes!
67-66 final
http://www.golutes.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/releases/201012081aaigu

PLU to me is very capable of being a 2 or 3 in conf.  WW's trip to Pierce county WA might turn out to be more difficult than last weekends trip.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 09, 2010, 02:20:06 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 09, 2010, 01:26:45 PM
So Whitworth is good again...what else is new?
The balance on this team from the first 6 and if Jr. Taylor continues to emerge, 7 is impressive.  Stopping one guy doesn't stop Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 10, 2010, 12:02:51 PM
After watching Pacific and Willamette play against UPS, Pacific is a team that plays very hard. Anglin can go, tends to take a few plays off at times but still gets it done. Pacific will sneak up on some teams if they are underestimated because they play hard and have good athletes. They are small but their hearts are big and they play big.

Not sure what was up with Willamette but they came in to Tacoma just expecting to drill UPS, they were warming up like the game was already won. They were going through the motions, missing layups in the layup line. Those dudes are not good enough to just show up and beat teams.

UPS has basically a new team out there with a lot of young talent. When they play hard and start getting more consistent, they will be tough to beat. They have all the pieces, now, it is just putting it together. 2-0 start in league is a good start because every game in league is tough. Coach Lunt and crew is doing a great job so far, 2-0 in league with room to improve
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 10, 2010, 12:10:37 PM
LeMar Anglin has improved since last year, he is putting Pacific on his shoulders. If healthy, Pacific can knock a few teams off.

Kaleb Shelton is the engine that has made UPS go, he will only get better throughout the year and he makes his teammates better by his actions on the floor. He plays so hard and you just can't help but follow his lead.

The skinny guard from Willamette(don't know his name) can go a little bit andf their bigs are tought to guard. I see them giving teams some problems if they show up ready to play.

I think the league is much better than last year and anyone can beat anyone any night, well, Whitworth has to have a pretty bad night for a team to sneak up on them lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 11, 2010, 05:06:28 PM
What happened to Heyman at UPS?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 11, 2010, 06:57:50 PM
Not sure about what happened to him, saw him in stands cheering with UPS crowd.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2010, 06:27:21 PM
Whitworth defeats Whittier in the Whit Bowl 86-65.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 12, 2010, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2010, 06:27:21 PM
Whitworth defeats Whittier in the Whit Bowl 86-65.

Making the Pirates the worthier Whit.  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.circvsmaximvs.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Frimshot.gif&hash=5b833e2abd28f6557722ded73611469c828731d2)
(Okay, so I lost a 't' in there.  Sue me.)

If this is the Whit Bowl, what is it when Whitworth plays Whitman?



How DARE you mess with my smiley?!?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2010, 07:07:32 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 12, 2010, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2010, 06:27:21 PM
Whitworth defeats Whittier in the Whit Bowl 86-65.

Making the Pirates the worthier Whit.  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emotty.com%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2F587.png&hash=0f0a2d3dfa9d4f68edf53b7340f60afd75b2c156)
(Okay, so I lost a 't' in there.  Sue me.)

If this is the Whit Bowl, what is it when Whitworth plays Whitman?
Just another Tuesday loss for Whitman.   :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2010, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 12, 2010, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2010, 06:27:21 PM
Whitworth defeats Whittier in the Whit Bowl 86-65.

Making the Pirates the worthier Whit.  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emotty.com%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2F587.png&hash=0f0a2d3dfa9d4f68edf53b7340f60afd75b2c156)
(Okay, so I lost a 't' in there.  Sue me.)

If this is the Whit Bowl, what is it when Whitworth plays Whitman?

I don't know, nor do I give one whit what anyone calls it. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 14, 2010, 12:07:54 PM
Whitworth looked good this weekend and moved up in the rankings (#6).  Still not sure this team is as good as last year's though.  Last year they started off with some losses, but to good teams (the UW-Point won it all).  This year's schedule is turning out to be pretty weak.  The win over Carthage looks less impressive each week. Carthage has fallen out of the top 25.  No other WW opponent is ranked.  Claremont did beat Azuza and Colorado College beat Air Force, so maybe the next three games might tell us something, but we won't know what this team is made of until the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 14, 2010, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 14, 2010, 12:07:54 PM
Whitworth looked good this weekend and moved up in the rankings (#6).  Still not sure this team is as good as last year's though.  Last year they started off with some losses, but to good teams (the UW-Point won it all).  This year's schedule is turning out to be pretty weak.  The win over Carthage looks less impressive each week. Carthage has fallen out of the top 25.  No other WW opponent is ranked.  Claremont did beat Azuza and Colorado College beat Air Force, so maybe the next three games might tell us something, but we won't know what this team is made of until the playoffs.


Playoffs??? We're talking about PLAYOFFS????? HAHAHA, reminded me of the football coach going off!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2010, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 14, 2010, 12:07:54 PM
Whitworth looked good this weekend and moved up in the rankings (#6).  Still not sure this team is as good as last year's though.  Last year they started off with some losses, but to good teams (the UW-Point won it all).  This year's schedule is turning out to be pretty weak.  The win over Carthage looks less impressive each week. Carthage has fallen out of the top 25.  No other WW opponent is ranked.  Claremont did beat Azuza and Colorado College beat Air Force, so maybe the next three games might tell us something, but we won't know what this team is made of until the playoffs.

CMS has lost its best player to a torn ACL since the Stags defeated Azusa Pacific.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on December 14, 2010, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2010, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 14, 2010, 12:07:54 PM
Whitworth looked good this weekend and moved up in the rankings (#6).  Still not sure this team is as good as last year's though.  Last year they started off with some losses, but to good teams (the UW-Point won it all).  This year's schedule is turning out to be pretty weak.  The win over Carthage looks less impressive each week. Carthage has fallen out of the top 25.  No other WW opponent is ranked.  Claremont did beat Azuza and Colorado College beat Air Force, so maybe the next three games might tell us something, but we won't know what this team is made of until the playoffs.

CMS has lost its best player to a torn ACL since the Stags defeated Azusa Pacific.

Chris Blees, preseason All American, will be done for the year. The Stags have been revamping their team now after he went down. They'll still be pesky, but they'll be hard pressed to stop the Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 14, 2010, 05:33:36 PM
Chris Blees is a really good basketball player! He was player of the year the past two seasons in the SCIAC. Hard to replace. Clairemont is well coached and they play hard on D! Whitworth should be able to handle them!
PLU goes down to play Cal Lutheran and Cal Tech this weekend.

This is shaping up as a fun year in the Northwest Conference with Whitworth again being by far the best team!

If Blees were healthy this would of been a match up of the favorites of both conferences! To bad to see this happen to a great player!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 15, 2010, 03:05:01 PM
Quote from: Keandre on December 14, 2010, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 14, 2010, 12:07:54 PM
Whitworth looked good this weekend and moved up in the rankings (#6).  Still not sure this team is as good as last year's though.  Last year they started off with some losses, but to good teams (the UW-Point won it all).  This year's schedule is turning out to be pretty weak.  The win over Carthage looks less impressive each week. Carthage has fallen out of the top 25.  No other WW opponent is ranked.  Claremont did beat Azuza and Colorado College beat Air Force, so maybe the next three games might tell us something, but we won't know what this team is made of until the playoffs.


Playoffs??? We're talking about PLAYOFFS????? HAHAHA, reminded me of the football coach going off!

Not really the same situation as the football coach going off.  Mora went off after a loss.  WW just emptied their bench on the road against what is predicted to be their two toughest league opponents and the games weren't as close as the scores. Linfield scored 14 points in the first half.  It wasn't just cold shooting.  They didn't have any decent looks. With Gebbers x 2 and their cousin on the perimeter, you have to go inside against WW and defensively Felix, Loofburrow, and Michael Taylor (Aspen) are very solid inside.   Wiser couldn't do a thing against them.  Is there a better inside player than Wiser in the league?  Maybe Shelton will be a problem and maybe someone else can go inside enough to free up the perimeter, but unless someone can get inside against them, the only way that anyone from the NWC is going to beat WW is to shoot 50% on NBA threes. 

The problem this team faces is their schedule is too soft.  When the game dates were made, it looked like a great schedule.  It was reasonable to think that Luther, Carthage, Trinity, Claremont, Colorado College, and Ripon would all be top 25 teams--or at least half of them would be. Not one of them is currently ranked and probably shouldn't be.  Last year's team played three tough Wisconsin schools (including Point), Pomona, Montana Tech (which had just beaten Weber State the week before WW played them), and McKendra (ranked #5 in the NAIA at the time). 

I would not be surprised to see WW run the table from here to the playoffs (barring injuries), but I don't think they will be as prepared to battle in the playoffs like last year's team was.  We'll see. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 16, 2010, 01:21:33 AM
All fo the Whit starters have played against playoff caliber competition. If this team can continue to play Brewster ball, they will go a round or two farther than years past. Defense wins championships, and this is the best defense Whitworth has had in awhile...

It doesn't hurt to have Michael Taylor either...I've seen Nakamura, Williams and Pecht (although he was more of a forward) play. Taylor is the best guard Whitworth has had, period.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 16, 2010, 05:29:28 PM
Michael Taylor is great, but hard to rank those guys.  A lot of people would put Beal at the top, I'd put Taylor at the top if his assist to turnover ratio was half of what Ross' was. Nobody on the list got their hand on the ball as much as Williams.   It all comes down to what you value in a guard.  In Hayford's system, hard to beat Ross IMHO.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 17, 2010, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 16, 2010, 05:29:28 PM
Michael Taylor is great, but hard to rank those guys.  A lot of people would put Beal at the top, I'd put Taylor at the top if his assist to turnover ratio was half of what Ross' was. Nobody on the list got their hand on the ball as much as Williams.   It all comes down to what you value in a guard.  In Hayford's system, hard to beat Ross IMHO.
Love talking WW hoops.  I agree that this years schedule is not what WW thought it could be but I suspect that 4 or 5 teams we have played will be playing for berths in late Feb.  I think Victor Bull at PLU is a good post and WW will need to prepare for that game at PLU as it's next biggest test.

Guards....B Williams, 4 year starter the bar is set by him.  Eric Avery, very good intense.  Ross N., super poised but 2 years. Eric B., solid 1 year.  M Taylor, BEST 1 year player hands down.  J. Young, 4 years and could score big,  David Riley, best pure scorer and 4 year player.  I like em all but I think Wade Gebbers might be at the top of this list after 2013.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 19, 2010, 06:29:44 PM
It's tricky ranking em all with the way Hayford gets guys for 1-2 years, gets everything humanly possible out of them, and then simply replaces them with another AA caliber player.

Taylor isn't a true pg. But the eyeball test tells me if you could pick any one player (like a draft), I take him first and find a solid pg (ie one of the Gebbers) to complement him. Maybe I'm just a big fan of his height and the way they play defense with him and the Gebbers boys in there.

The nice thing about being a Pirate fan is that you can have this kind of debate and still have 3-4 equally deserving players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 19, 2010, 08:05:57 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 19, 2010, 06:29:44 PM
It's tricky ranking em all with the way Hayford gets guys for 1-2 years, gets everything humanly possible out of them, and then simply replaces them with another AA caliber player.

Taylor isn't a true pg. But the eyeball test tells me if you could pick any one player (like a draft), I take him first and find a solid pg (ie one of the Gebbers) to complement him. Maybe I'm just a big fan of his height and the way they play defense with him and the Gebbers boys in there.

The nice thing about being a Pirate fan is that you can have this kind of debate and still have 3-4 equally deserving players.

If Ross, Riley, M. Taylor, Depew and Montgomery played on the same team....with Symes, Peche, G Tucker, Loffburrow and B Williams off the bench...  i would take that fantasy team against any other D3 program over the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on December 19, 2010, 08:33:27 PM
Just got home from the Whitworth Claremont game.  Claremont without Blees hung in there and fought hard but the Bucs just had too much for them.  Game started out with W Gebbers hitting three 3's in the first 4 minutes and I thought I would see a blowout.  About mid way in the first half Whitworth had about seven possessions that they didn't get a shot letting the scrappy Stags back in it for a close 39 to 35 first half.  Stags hit a dry spell mid second half and Whitworth was able to get the separation needed .  Riley and Friedt were solid whole game.  Taylor had a slow first half but got it going better in the second.  Bucs are as advertised but Stags without Blees were impressive and determined to make a good game of it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 20, 2010, 07:49:43 PM
I think the Claremont game gave the NW conference teams some hope. Claremont always plays hard and are well coached. They(Claremont) did get beat by Santa Cruz who lost to Cal Tech and Whitworh shot very well in the Claremont  game.
It is probably going to take an off night but a Whitworth loss or two could happen this year in the NWC which has several good teams! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 21, 2010, 11:06:53 AM
Looks like UPS got a new big. 6'9 and very athletic, got skills around the rim and protects the paint like a monster. Teams better watch out, this kid just elevated a team that was already going to make some noise in conference. After beating Bethany last night, time to get ready for San Jose State, tough game for the loggers but expect them to play hard in a fun environment. Go loggers!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 22, 2010, 03:20:58 PM
Whoa, Kea!  Don't get to far ahead of yourself.  The kid played 10 minutes, scored 2 points, had 1 rebound, 2 blocked shots and 3 fouls.  He might develop into something great, but those are less than stellar stats for his first outing, and against a winless 0-12 team.

But that could/would be a nice front line if UPS slowed it down some, maybe a zone defense.  Shelton, Riggs and Gittens would be a strong, tall line in a zone defense.  But I don't think Lunt is built that way.  Riggs and Shelton seem to play in tandem instead of together.

LC seems to be dealing with injuries again this year.  They lost their 2nd game of the season with McCullough back, but Hollins out with a minor back injury.  McCullough would have helped against Whitworth, but probably not enought to make the difference.  It will be interesting to see how they do in Spokane.

Pacific is playing better than a last place team, going into overtime against Corbin and Evergreen St in the last 3 games.  They are on the right track, maybe not this year, but in the near future.

PLU, loses to Pac U, beats GF and St Martins.  Above .500 now after winning 4 in a row.  Still a possible playoff team.

Linfield should be there too, but they are a tough read.  5-4 at this stage is probably not sitting with them too well.  They have a tough trip after Christmas against some good to very good teams.  Could finish the pre-league 5-7 (1-1 in league).

Wil is my disappointment so far.  I just think they are a better team than their 3-6 record indicates (two last second shots away from being 1-8).  Maybe they will blossom like last year and finish the middle and end of season strong.

Have a great Holiday this weekend and be safe!

Go NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 22, 2010, 04:47:25 PM
Had better things to do, but procrastination got the better of me and I calculated the winning percentages of the NWC non-league games in the 2006-07 season versus this year and they were 54% vs 53%.  So if we are scheduling the same kind of games, the conference seems about as strong compared to other conferences now as it was 3 or so years ago when all the teams seemed pretty equal (except for a couple bringing up the back of the pack). Maybe the league is not down right now and WW's strong wins over LC and Linfield means they are pretty good.  Hopefully, they can get better from here and be one of Hayford's better teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 23, 2010, 04:57:38 PM
Not trying to get ahead of anything but his size and athletic ability will help even if he has not practiced all year. Now he is getting in shape, I just say keep an eye on UPS cause they can do somethings with the new edition. Him and shelton will play well together.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 23, 2010, 05:29:24 PM
Kea:

Fair enough.  So where do you see UPS finishing this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 23, 2010, 07:02:23 PM
I have seen each team play in the league and I think that the loggers can finish top 3. That is if they can stay healthy just like any team. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 27, 2010, 12:29:40 PM
Viva Las Vegas - I am on a jet plane in 6 hours!  Off to see the Pirates take on more foes and make them walk the plank!  (sorry, I couldn't resist that one..)

A Buc Forever - are you coming over too?  Should be fun and exciting...may even try to meet Pat C and the rest of the D3 gang.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 28, 2010, 11:47:59 AM
Should be a good game tonight.  I am looking forward to the broadcast and watching the Pirates take their game to the next level.  Great to see David Riley on the front page.  Great shooter and potential POTY in conf. this season.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 30, 2010, 12:26:44 AM
Looks like it's going to take a VERY bad game from Whitworth for the rest of the NWC to get a win against the Pirates. 2 games in Vegas, 2 monkey stomps
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 30, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
Any idea why Wiser isn't playing for Linfield?  He didn't play against Immaculata on Tuesday and didn't again today against Stevens Point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 01, 2011, 04:33:01 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 30, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
Any idea why Wiser isn't playing for Linfield?  He didn't play against Immaculata on Tuesday and didn't again today against Stevens Point.
No one from Linfield posts here regularly that I can think of so hard to say.   Wiser played full minutes in their previous game but recap of Immaculata says he was injured for that game (and vs Point). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: frodotwo on January 01, 2011, 11:41:31 AM
Radio said it was due to injury (ankle).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 04, 2011, 12:05:46 AM
New poll out and Whitworth #4!!!  I am sure there is a big target on Pirates back in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 04, 2011, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 01, 2011, 04:33:01 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 30, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
Any idea why Wiser isn't playing for Linfield?  He didn't play against Immaculata on Tuesday and didn't again today against Stevens Point.
No one from Linfield posts here regularly that I can think of so hard to say.   Wiser played full minutes in their previous game but recap of Immaculata says he was injured for that game (and vs Point). 

We have a basketball team?  Only 239 days until Linfield opens up football fall camp!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 04, 2011, 05:34:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 04, 2011, 12:05:46 AM
New poll out and Whitworth #4!!!  I am sure there is a big target on Pirates back in the NWC.

Not only are we #4 now, but we picked up 2 more first place votes.  Looks like someone else is showing us a little love.

On another note:  Vegas was a blast, didnt come home rich though.  Got to see both games, and did meet Pat C and Dave M from the D3Hoops crew...nice guys. Interesting venue...holds 4,500 or so, but only had 100+ there!  Everything said echoed alot - just ask Noah R!

Good to see Nakamura, Sellereit, Willemsen, and Norton again - those guys were a riot.

A good family representation was there too for many of the players, that was nice to see too.

Really looking forward to the rest of the season - Go Bucs !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 04, 2011, 08:15:09 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 04, 2011, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 01, 2011, 04:33:01 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 30, 2010, 08:36:09 PM
Any idea why Wiser isn't playing for Linfield?  He didn't play against Immaculata on Tuesday and didn't again today against Stevens Point.
No one from Linfield posts here regularly that I can think of so hard to say.   Wiser played full minutes in their previous game but recap of Immaculata says he was injured for that game (and vs Point). 

We have a basketball team?  Only 239 days until Linfield opens up football fall camp!

You are unreal.  This is a basketball board.  Be supportive of the athletes that support the football team. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 04, 2011, 10:04:00 PM
Awwww snap WC11! Don't forget you have a baseball team too...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 04, 2011, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 04, 2011, 10:04:00 PM
Awwww snap WC11! Don't forget you have a baseball team too...

(509),

I went to most of their home stands last year...hell of a program.  I know how big of a hoop junkie you are so congrats on your Rats #4 ranking so far.  Looking forward to talking Tullyball back on the football board this summer/fall.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 05, 2011, 02:29:50 AM
You're lucky I'm smarter than the Linfield men's basketball team...it'll be some stimulating conversation

The Internet is a beautiful thing. You can pretend to be whoever you want...unless of course you register your d3boards profile with your school email.

*cough*playball*cough*

In the words of Keyshawn Johnson...C'mon Man!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 05, 2011, 02:35:09 AM
Speaking of the baseball team. I got a buddy who played their. Good guy. I guess what they say about Linfield athletes isn't true... :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 05, 2011, 02:50:13 AM
I don't need to hide behind anything.  I don't have an issue owning up to anything I say on here.  What I do have an issue with is people who are Linfield affiliated bad mouthing our team.  I understand we won't win over every person, but really?  You guys should grow up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 05, 2011, 03:08:43 AM
Well of course not now. What were you going to do delete your account? Wouldn't change your post. But complaining about support to a person who does more towards gaining recognition for Linfield in general makes you sound like a WNBA player talking about how the womens game is just as entertaining and people should come watch.

It's really simple. Put a better product on the court and you'll get as much support as Whitworth. Then you too can fly to every game further than a 2 hour drive. Yes, our bball team rides a bus once the entire season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 05, 2011, 11:32:58 AM
O.K....my intent wasn't to bad mouth the basketball team.  I was just playing into the stereotype that has long existed on this board that Linfield posters only care about their football team.  That's all that I was doing in that post was playing into that and having a little fun.

I support everything Linfield.  Go 'Cats.


(509)...thanks for the words...you're a pretty good guy....for a Rat.  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 06, 2011, 01:45:18 AM
Quote"I think you're asking a bit much if you want the Wildcats competing for a title every year."

Let me keep this alive....
9 out of 10 NWC titles at one point  in middle ages history - and the tenth one was taken away by the WILLAMETTE athletic director pressing for a sanction of all LINFIELD teams because of a freshman transcript 'problem'.

I do not know Lary Doty.  I know of the great work he did as a player.

I did know Ted Wilson, Doty's coach.

In the early 1990's I met a 5th grade kid that was a quiet, diligent student. He was small, but showed a good deal of heart when I saw him play in a Los Angeles City flag football tournament.  I lost track of him.
7 years later I got interested in high school basketball and Corey showed up as a player on the #1 ranked L.A. City team.  I talked to him after a game once and he was still a good guy.
I thought "LINFIELD material!"  
I checked around and found out that he had been 2nd team All-City defensive back the previous two years, was one of the fastest guys in the City at 200m and here he was at 5'9, 180 on the basketball team.
His Fremont High played perennial nationally ranked Crenshaw High for the City Championship and Corey came off the bench for 20 something points in a losing cause.

I talked to Corey's Grandma. I talked to admissions at LINFIELD. I talked to the lady (name skips me) who handles minorities at LINFIELD. I communicated with Doty. I borrowed a VHS of the L.A. City Final and sent it to him.

June passed.
August passed.
School started.  
Corey enrolled in local JC.

At homecoming I asked around about Doty, someone pointed and said, "He's right there."
I introduced myself.
I asked if he received my tape.
"Yeah."
(pause...pause...pause)
"Well?"
"We thought he was too good for us."
I turned heel.

Would I cheer at a national playoff game? Yes.

Tenure. Tenure. Tenure.





Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 06, 2011, 06:03:42 PM
Big weekend for the NWC! I love this time of year! Go Loggers! Tough tripp to Walla Walla and Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 07, 2011, 10:41:21 AM
What's the spread for tonights game at The Fieldhouse?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 07, 2011, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2011, 10:41:21 AM
What's the spread for tonights game at The Fieldhouse?

I'm hoping PLU and UPS will give Whitworth  good games this weekend, but I think PLU will breakdown and the game won't be within 20.  UPS will be one of the toughest inside tests Whitworth has had this year.  Could be interesting from that standpoint. However, UPS has always relied on creating a lot of pressure and forcing turnovers. Given that Whitworth has the lowest turnover rate in the nation, I imagine the UPS game will a close, but comfortable win for Whitorth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 07, 2011, 11:53:42 PM
Whitworth us up 52-28 at the Half. PLU is shooting 32% from the field, and Whitworth 59%...also just under 59% from 3-pt. Riley is the leading scorer with 19, Loofburrow has 13.  Whitworth only has 2 turnovers

Whitman's live stats is frozen at 7:22 left in the first half. Whitman up 32-25
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 08, 2011, 12:44:36 AM
What a stomp.  WW 93-58.  At 70-35 Pirates let up the D and coast it in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 08, 2011, 12:45:37 AM
Whitworth beats PLU 93-58

The Pirates were 17-30 from the 3pt line. Riley led all scorers with 26, Loofburrow had 21. He and Riley both hit 6, 3's.

PLU was scrappy, just nowhere near the talent that Whitworth had on the court. Of course Whitworth won't shoot 58% every night...but somebody is going to have to get flat out lucky to beat Whitworth in the NWC.

Whitman is beating UPS 71-63, 7 min left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 09, 2011, 01:11:56 AM
Close one tonight.  I wonder if UPS wishes they could have some of those long range 3's back.  Seems like they take a lot of tough shots they don't need to. A little better shot selection and this game might have gone their way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 09, 2011, 01:52:44 AM
After a two day stretch where Willamette lost to Pacific by 20 then beat Linfield by 26, I've officially given up trying to understand this Bearcat team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 10, 2011, 05:13:56 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on January 09, 2011, 01:52:44 AM
After a two day stretch where Willamette lost to Pacific by 20 then beat Linfield by 26, I've officially given up trying to understand this Bearcat team.

Me, too!  But I have to say, I like the Saturday team better and I hope they show up next weekend!!  (That was a fun game to watch!)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 10, 2011, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 09, 2011, 01:11:56 AM
Close one tonight.  I wonder if UPS wishes they could have some of those long range 3's back.  Seems like they take a lot of tough shots they don't need to. A little better shot selection and this game might have gone their way.
I don't know about losing this game but WW had a near perfect storm against them with the foul trouble.  UPS attacked WW defense and calls happen.  There were quite a few offensive fouls called as well.  Strange how Clay Gebbers and David Riley got tagged and M. Taylor and J. Loofburrow weere basically unscathed.  Spread those calls around and a 10 point lead would have likely grown to 15+.  Pirates have 5 guys who can score 15+ from their first 6 with C. Gebbers being the other guy and he stops 15+ points a night.  WW has streak shooters in Riley and Loofburrow.  These guys hit 2 of their first 4 and I don't think WW loses a game.  These guys wait for some open shots early instead of forcing or making shots (patience) and they get on track and opponent is in trouble. 

Hat goes off to Wade, Taylor, and Freidt.  These guys played exceptional.  Wade with injury plays minutes and smart.  Feeding ball into Freidt against fronting D resulted in many close FG's.  Taylor took matters into his own hands and personally stopped UPS from their early lead and any control of game. 

UPS impressed me with their intensity and pace.  They played all out and wreckless.  You could see they wanted this game and Lunt had his team prepared and believing.  Even after the loss in Walla Walla they didn't mail it in. 

WW has many options and depth is emerging each game.  I am very excited to see this team continue and if fortune smiles maybe carry a #1 poll by the end of the month.  Wouldn't that be sweet!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 10, 2011, 03:44:23 PM
Even though this young UPS team lost 2 in the Eastern Washington trip this weekend, both games were very competitive. I see a tremendous upside to this UPS team. They keep getting better.

Whitworth is GOOD! Don't make mistakes and never panic.

Lots of great hoops to come in the NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 10, 2011, 05:42:31 PM
I would be upset about the Whitman loss if I'm a UPS fan. The last few years UPS' shot selection has gotten worse and it shows when you see a steady decline in FG% since '07 (when Lunt took over). It showed this weekend at Whitworth and to an extent at Whitman (when you look at their 3-pt %).

I don't have anything against UPS, but I remember seeing Bridgeland coached teams and being more impressed. And don't bring up 08-09 when Lunt had a good season with all of Bridgeland's recruits.

They did play well against Whitworth at The Fieldhouse in what is probably the worst road trip in the NWC (since you have to drive 3 hours just to get to Spokane from Walla Walla, or vice versa). They shot better than their season averages and out rebounded Whitworth. Whitworth is simply a better team this year and apparently even an "off" night is only enough to get within 7. Maybe the Loggers can start playing like they did this last Saturday, week in-week out?

The trip to UPS will be tough, always is. And I would say that is the one game where Whitworth might trip up...but in the NWC this year I guess Willamette, Pacific, George Fox could all be tough games? Everybody not named Whitworth is way too inconsistent. It only takes one good night though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2011, 12:39:10 AM
LC should not be underestimated. Winning all their conference games except WW so far. If they get hot they could get WW. I agree with the assessment that UPS plays hard but lacks patience on the shot selection.  Overall they may have better athletes than WW and they play just as hard but not as disciplined and WW players have better basketball skills. I guess you'd just have to say they are better coached. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 11, 2011, 07:27:29 PM
Whitworth moves up to #3. Still have only 3 first place votes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 12, 2011, 12:36:19 PM
The good thing about what is being mentioned why UPS is inconsistent and not winning games that they should is that they are correctable. FG% can get better by just what you guys are saying, being more patient. The heart and will to win is there, just handling the details of the game and concentrating and having better basketball skills are all things that can be worked on for this young Logger team. Guys are starting to figure out what to do every possession, they are still not doing it every possession but when they put everything together, they will make some noise. Looks like their 4 game road trip in the NWC is up after saturday, now is the time to get things going and start getting more consistent and put together several wins in a row. A true Logger fan believes!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 12, 2011, 02:17:50 PM
I sure hope they get it together. It's been 2002 since someone other than Whitworth or UPS has won the conference championship. The last 8 years have had a lot of entertaining and important games between the two. Of course I'm still hoping Whitworth continues to be the better team  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 12, 2011, 04:38:17 PM
PLU gets UPS at home for the first time in a while! L&C this Friday for PLU and that should be an interesting game! PLU better defensively than last year. That will win them a couple more games when their offense goes south like it did against Whitworth who was on fire. WW is very ,very good! :-*
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 12, 2011, 05:53:35 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 12, 2011, 02:17:50 PM
I sure hope they get it together. It's been 2002 since someone other than Whitworth or UPS has won the conference championship. The last 8 years have had a lot of entertaining and important games between the two. Of course I'm still hoping Whitworth continues to be the better team  ;D

Lewis and Clark was co-Champs with Whitworth in 2008.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 12, 2011, 06:19:08 PM
I knew someone would bring that up. I'm not counting it because A) they were only co-champs and B) they still got spanked by Whitworth in the conference tourney. It's kinda like saying Hawaii won the WAC championship this year in football...

Has anyone outside of Whitworth and UPS represented the NWC in the playoffs in the last 7-8 years?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 12, 2011, 06:34:43 PM
Most conferences are dominated by a couple teams with one coming out of no where once every few years. UPS and Whitworth have been loaded with talent . Both those schools recruit well and are well coached! The D3 level is not easy to recruit! Every year it seems Whitworth comes up with a new all league player that transfers in!
It is all good Whitworth knows how to win! It will make the league better in general. It is cool to see a NWC school ranked that high nationally. I hope they go to numer 1! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 12, 2011, 06:40:14 PM
You don't have to count it if you don't want to, that's fine.  They were co-Champs with Whitworth regardless. 

Don't follow WAC football.

Whitworth did win the conference tournament that year.

No, no other team besides UPS or Whitworth has represented the NWC in the NCAA's since Lewis and Clark Elite 8 run in 2002.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 12, 2011, 06:42:58 PM
If only Lewis and Clark's administration cared about athletics...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 12, 2011, 11:50:17 PM
NWCer:

Further, because of a weird tiebreaker, WW got the game at home.  Had the tiebreaker gone the way it was suppose to, LC would have played at home, and that might have produced a different result, and I could have at least seen that game.

Rat:

Too late for that.  The players are saying this is almost surely Gaillard's last year, so they will have to start over with a new coach, probably the big assistant coach.  That will not bode well for the future of Pio basketball.

Kea:

Sorry, be a good fan all you can.  But there are no signs of UPS being anything but a lower tier finisher.  Playing WW tough is all good, but then losing to PLU was a game they could not afford to lose.  PLU is no slouch, but to be in the top tier they needed to win that game.  Maybe you see signs of a developing team, but the record and stats don't show that (how can Shelton go 1-10 from the field and 3 pts in 37 minutes against PLU?).  But, heh, I thought Wil was going to be good this year, so who knows?


PacU has been a surprise so far.  They have Linf on Fri and LC on Sat.  If they continue their win one and lose one each weekend so far, I would pick a win against Linf and losing to LC.  Linf will not finish in the playoffs this year and LC will. 

So has Linf, but for the opposite reason.  Wiser is having his typical all-conference year, but only Rosario and Anderson are supporting him, the only others averaging more than 8 points per game.  They are just not a very good team right now.

I gotta try again:

LC over PLU
Wil gets Whitman
PacU over Linf
GF squeaks by WW....okay, I'm kidding.  I am going to be at that game to see WW.

If you reverse that, except WW over GF, and you probably will do better than I did.




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 14, 2011, 11:01:03 AM
If you look in the box score, UPS starting PG has not played the last 3 games and he sure would have helped to win at Whitman, Whitworth and PLU.  All 3 of those games ended in costly turnovers and guys unorganized at times. That happens when your starting PG misses a few games. When he gets back, things will for sure turn around.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 14, 2011, 10:36:38 PM
Predictions:

WW over GF
PLU over LC
WIL over WHIT
PAC over LF

I think 3 games will be close. 8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 14, 2011, 11:53:29 PM
GF is playing about as good a half of basketball as they have all season. Shooting over 46% from 3 and 52% from the field. They don't look like a very physical team and the refs seem to be playing into that, lot of nit-picky fouls on both ends. I would be very surprised if they keep up the strong shooting...

Whitworth is up 39-37
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 15, 2011, 12:55:20 AM
Whitworth wins 81-57. Whitworth didn't play a great game. They played an average game (in terms of shooting %, turnovers, rebound margin, etc). GF shot as well as they could in the first half, then played a turnover filled second half. Their shooting % dropped like a rock. Ended up being a good game for GF statistically though.

Whitworth had a lot more talent and was much more effective in the paint. GF would have had to shoot 60%+ from 3 just to make it a close game.

Whitworth gets another streaky team tomorrow night at Willamette. I would be surprised if Willamette stays within 20
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 15, 2011, 10:18:54 PM
Whitworth up 32-27 at the half. Hayford has played more guys than I think I've ever seen so far
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 15, 2011, 10:54:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 15, 2011, 10:18:54 PM
Whitworth up 32-27 at the half. Hayford has played more guys than I think I've ever seen so far

Any more updates rat?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 16, 2011, 12:44:38 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 15, 2011, 10:54:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 15, 2011, 10:18:54 PM
Whitworth up 32-27 at the half. Hayford has played more guys than I think I've ever seen so far

Any more updates rat?

Whitworth wins 84-70.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 16, 2011, 01:27:26 AM
Another game where Whitworth was obviously the more talented team. Willamette had a good gameplan. They ran a lot of guys at Whitworth, played physical and got the Pirates in some foul trouble. They also didn't rely on the 3, which judging by the few they shot was a good thing. It never felt like a close game in the second half but the Bearkitties scored more points against Whitworth than any other team all season.

On an unrelated note. I was inches away from ending my own life after listening to the Willamette radio announcer. Unfortunately the video stream would always skip to "live" video and therefore couldn't sync Bob Castle with the video. Not only did this guy call the Pirates "Whitman" on 5 too many occasions, but he also was the single biggest homer I've ever listened to. Every Whitworth basket off a drive was a "travel" and any contact was an obvious "foul" on Whitworth. Capital tv or whatever it was called did a great job of showing some court side replays where it was clear that the announcer was completely wrong.

Long story short. Bob Castle is the best play-by-play guy in the NWC for any sport. Period.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 16, 2011, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 16, 2011, 01:27:26 AM
On an unrelated note. I was inches away from ending my own life after listening to the Willamette radio announcer. Unfortunately the video stream would always skip to "live" video and therefore couldn't sync Bob Castle with the video. Not only did this guy call the Pirates "Whitman" on 5 too many occasions, but he also was the single biggest homer I've ever listened to. Every Whitworth basket off a drive was a "travel" and any contact was an obvious "foul" on Whitworth. Capital tv or whatever it was called did a great job of showing some court side replays where it was clear that the announcer was completely wrong.

Long story short. Bob Castle is the best play-by-play guy in the NWC for any sport. Period.
Castle is very good and is the best in the nation I have heard over the last 10 years.  The Willamette (Mr. Travel) guy, not so much.  As Rat stated, WW never really was threatened.  I am desperately looking for some software application that will help me synchronize 2 different media feeds so I can listen to Bob, who broadcasts all home and AWAY games.  Thanks Bob!  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 16, 2011, 05:05:16 PM
Considering Willamette often doesn't look like we have any sort of gameplan at all, I was impressed with the way the Bearcats played.  I hope the lack of threes becomes an ongoing trend.  We aren't a three-point shooting team.  Period.

Mike is significantly better at football than he is at basketball.  That said, he calls every NWC game, home and away, did this year's tournament at UMHB, and Willamette's game at Oregon.  I'm grateful for what he does for Bearcat Hoop.


Edit to add: Bob Castle is definitely the NWC's best play-by-play guy right now, though I miss Darrell Aune at Linfield.  He almost made Linfield games worth listening to.  Almost.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 16, 2011, 10:54:51 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 16, 2011, 01:27:26 AM
Long story short. Bob Castle is the best play-by-play guy in the NWC for any sport. Period.

Castle is the best radio play by play guy I have ever listened to.  The Bearcat guy wasn't that much of a homer, but the "homer bar" was set pretty low by the Carthage announcer.  Listening to that guy was entertaining.  I liked how he called Loofburrow a goon.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on January 17, 2011, 02:38:25 AM
Castle is definitely the best announcer in the NWC.   No contest.

I'm surprised to hear Mike (WU's announcer) called a "homer" as when I've listened to him he often puts down the WU players, coaches, etc. usually in a joking way, but totally unnecessary.   Sort of a doofus -- but he is loyal and does show up for everything.   Don't think they pay those guys, so . . .

WU had a pretty game with Whitworth.  For awhile I thought they'd pull it out, but just couldn't step on the gas enough.  Looking forward to some more wins for the Bearcats.   I guess it's a rebuilding year.   Doesn't help to lose Marcus Holmes, either.  He brought a lot of heart to the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 17, 2011, 11:39:28 AM
I am sure Mike Allegre gets paid. Now, I'm also sure it's not much in the grand scheme of things, but guys working games for commercial outlets almost certainly get paid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 17, 2011, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on January 17, 2011, 02:38:25 AM
WU had a pretty game with Whitworth.  For awhile I thought they'd pull it out, but just couldn't step on the gas enough.  Looking forward to some more wins for the Bearcats.   I guess it's a rebuilding year.   Doesn't help to lose Marcus Holmes, either.  He brought a lot of heart to the game.

I never thought WU made a serious challenge in the game.  From what I've seen in the league so far is that some teams can stay with WW for awhile, but they don't have the offensive discipline and team defense to stay with WW the whole game.  Fox got ahead of them, but relying on 20% to 30% 3 point shooters to keep making shots all night is too much. WU's scheme had no plan for dealing with WW's inside game or penetration.  Yes, WW took too many 3's at first, but once they starting going to the hoop more that opened up the outside again and it was game over. I really didn't see WU defending inside very well. WU's offensive game also seemed chaotic.  It seems like everyone in the league is depending on the dribble drive, one pass and shoot. That is not going to work against a highly disciplined defensive team like WW.  The only exception is LC.  They actually have the kind of players that could stay hot all night and they can hit the 3 the consistently. If they get hot and work hard for their shots, they could knock off WW.   It will be interesting to see what Whitman does with WW.  Whitman is always dangerous because they play so hard, but they might be overmatched in this one.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 18, 2011, 11:27:43 AM
Whitworth's game with LC is at the Fieldhouse. I think UPS @ UPS has a better shot than LC to knock off Whitworth. Bottom line is you are going to have to shoot around 60% from 3 and 50% from the field in order to beat Whitworth if your an NWC team. Nobody in the conference has the talent or defensive ability to stop Whitworth for 40 minutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 18, 2011, 02:51:07 PM
I saw the LC vs WW game earlier this season, and shutting down WW's offense was not the problem for LC.  With their big man McClough on the sideline with a cast on his hand, WW did not blow LC out inside or out.  

But their defense was excellent.  They totally took Taylor out of the game, the undersized post player was 0 for the night from the field, and Edwards had not yet started playing well.  The 3 point shots they got were from 2 or 3 feet further back and they were rushed.  Gebbers was so all over Taylor I thought Taylor changed his number to 12.  He did a great job of not letting Taylor get one open shot until the game was out of reach.

Once they got the big lead, they did milk the lead, so they would have scored more had they played more normal, but their defense won the game.

And now Hollins is out for the season with a torn ACL (the second player on the team to suffer one), so their hope for an upset in Spokane is just that.  And WW (er, Hayford) knows LC is always dangerous, and they will be prepared for any upset attempt.

Got to see Wiser at PacU this weekend.  Boy was he clutch!  Definite first team NWC with the way he is playing now.

Kea:
Still have your Loggers in the top 3 at the end of the season?  They will have to do well not to end up 2-6 at the turn, probably 3-5 with a win against Fox and a loss to LC.  Either way, a tough road to the playoffs being in 6th right now.  Gittens finally had a good game for you though.  

NWCer:  
Haven't heard from you for a while, not that I blame you.  Too much Pirate Pride on this website :).  Been to any Boxer games lately?  They should have beaten Linfield, but looked like a young team, and Wiser just went unconscious! No your boys have to make the EastWash trip, a killer for any team.  Not much hope of a win on that trip.

D.O.C.:
What?




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 18, 2011, 03:04:35 PM
Hey TMT,

Haven't got out to any games this year, and yeah haven't been on a lot, have been keeping tabs though.  Oldest is in high school now and I'm coaching my youngest in CYO so those 2 have soaked up all my idle hoop time!

A dreaded trip heading to Eastern Washington for sure.....

Sorry to hear about Hollins, that kid could play, he and Edwards are quite a duo, much props to Gaillord and his staff for them continuing to get it done.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2011, 04:06:19 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2010, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 12, 2010, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 12, 2010, 06:27:21 PM
Whitworth defeats Whittier in the Whit Bowl 86-65.

Making the Pirates the worthier Whit.  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emotty.com%2Fimages%2Femoticons%2F587.png&hash=0f0a2d3dfa9d4f68edf53b7340f60afd75b2c156)
(Okay, so I lost a 't' in there.  Sue me.)

If this is the Whit Bowl, what is it when Whitworth plays Whitman?

I don't know, nor do I give one whit what anyone calls it. ;)
Whit Bowl II at 8pm
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 18, 2011, 04:24:32 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 18, 2011, 02:51:07 PM
I saw the LC vs WW game earlier this season, and shutting down WW's offense was not the problem for LC.  With their big man McClough on the sideline with a cast on his hand, WW did not blow LC out inside or out.

Look like Freidt was in fould trouble? I didn't watch the game, just saw the box score. Whitworth shot about their season average in FG% and above their season avg from distance. Meaning LC did nothing more than any other team has been able to do all season. Under Hayford, Whitworth usually prefers to play the game in the half-court. Hayford's system is all about effiiency. I just don't see what LC did (or has done all season) that would make me think they would disrupt that, especially not in Spokane.

Usually teams like Whitman are scary because of their pace. But I don't see Mike Taylor or the Gebbers turning the ball over enough times to keep Whitman in the game. Whitman is going to need quite a few more possesions to win this game since they don't look to be incredibely effective when they aren't running off of turnovers. Should be an exciting game though!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2011, 04:50:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 18, 2011, 11:27:43 AM
Whitworth's game with LC is at the Fieldhouse. I think UPS @ UPS has a better shot than LC to knock off Whitworth. Bottom line is you are going to have to shoot around 60% from 3 and 50% from the field in order to beat Whitworth if your an NWC team. Nobody in the conference has the talent or defensive ability to stop Whitworth for 40 minutes.

I'm sticking with LC as the team with best chance to beat WW.  UPS is too out of control and their skill level is too low.  They have some athletes, but they can't shoot.  As the late Dan Fitzgerald always said, shooting is the #1 skill in basketball and UPS is last in shooting percentage. 

LC lost to to WW at home, but they shot 21% from the 3-point line that night.  I'll give 90% of the credit to WW's defense on that, but it was also just a bad night for them.  They make 30% of their 3's and they are in the game. They make 40% and it's down to the wire. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2011, 05:00:59 PM
What I do know about WW vs LC is that in early Dec, WW went to Portland and won on the road in the conference opener.  That's big and I know WW was concerned about drawing that road trip, at that point in the season (they also beat LF decisively).  So what could have been a real turning point turned into a big confidence boost.  The other M Taylor, filled in big for Freidt who did have foul trouble (4 with 15 minutes to go).  At no time in my opinion was WW seriously threatened at LC.  LC got it a 14 point deficit down to 7 at half and then 3 early.  What happened next?  WW went on a 12-0 run and built a lead to 17 with 11 to play.  WW didn't empty it's bench and won by 17. 

As for UPS, no way they win at home.  They play with pride in spurts but don't have the playmakers.  PLU is more likely to come close in my book.  They have seniors and scorers.

LC is no doubt the 2nd best team in the conference and are getting well deserved votes in the Top 25 poll (#29).  I expect 2 more games between schools and both to be fun to watch.  WW likely wins first at home where they are nearly unbeatable, and then LC will likely play there again with the thought of "tough to beat a team 3x" mentality.  Crazy thing is if they somehow did win in Conf, they would probably end up AT  WW for a fourth game in NCAA's.  

I have seen most of WW's games and opponents have thrown nearly every style attack at WW with no serious, sustained success.  Drive and hope for a foul, drive and kick and make 3's only work for 10-12 minutes or backfire.  Pirates have been able to weather the best shots of teams, sometimes (GF) without flinching.  Whitman with Bridgeland's chaos pressure will be new if they go at it hard.  Interesting to see how many layups are scored in this game.

Go Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 18, 2011, 06:39:01 PM
You know Whitman is going press and run in transition, that's Bridgeland's MO. But what happens if Whitworth handles the press and builds a big lead off of uncontested lay ups? At the end of the Bridgland era Whitworth became much more effective against the full court trap they ran at UPS. Lunt has pretty much abandoned it during Whitworth games (which may just be his preference). I think it's the only chance Whitman has but I just can't see it actually working...so then what do you do if you're Whitman?

And I don't think there's a snowball's chance Whitworth loses at UPS, but I think there's even less of a chance of them losing to anyone else in the NWC. Just to clarify.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2011, 11:23:37 PM
I don't think any team in the NW has better than 1:5 odds of beating WW. All I'm saying is LC would be my top pick to beat them.  I agree that WW owned LC in Portland. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2011, 12:23:49 AM
LC is the second best team, but they are a distant second.  I would like to say they will give WW a battle, but I just don't see that happening, especially on the second night of the road trip.  

You can spout off all you want about the WW offensive skills, but it is the defense that makes this team special.  You take any good 3 point shooter, move him back 2 feet to get open or make him run his guts out to get free, and you don't have a good 3 point shooter any more.  LC lives and dies by the 3, and if they can't get those open 3's, they have nothing else in their favor.  Add to that Hollins being out for the season, and you have a recipe for blowout.

With Gaillard retiring at the end of this season, winning one for the "ole guy" might come into play, but I doubt it.  

I do agree with A Buc about LC being the only team with a chance to beat WW, but it is a slim one at best.  UPS and Whitman just don't have the horses to put enough pressure on WW, GF and PLU are not deep enough, and Linf is just getting by the weaker teams and has to face a team that blew them out at home.

The league is definitely way down this year, and WW is way up.  I hope this doesn't hurt WW in the playoffs.  It would be nice for the NWC to get some "earned" respect with a long run in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2011, 12:34:59 AM
I'm not spouting off about offensive skills. I'm just saying your post about LC's D, slowing down Whitworth is bogus. They didn't slow anyone down. And read through my earlier posts. I wrote about this team's defensive talents well before you mentioned it.

A bad NWC will hurt a little. But they have been getting some good halves from different teams so they know what it's like to be in a game (temporarily). They've also put more milage on their "bus" (it's really a plane) than most teams, so they should be prepared for the travel (although maybe they host 3rd/4th round sectional??). Ripon, CC, Carthage, and CMS were good opponents. So their SOS isn't terrible.

I think the NWC has respect, but the NCAA never has enough $$ to give it to them (ie hosting later rounds of the tourney).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2011, 12:43:51 AM
Final

104-71
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 19, 2011, 12:49:49 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 19, 2011, 12:43:51 AM
Final

104-71

It wasn't that close.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 19, 2011, 12:58:45 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 19, 2011, 12:49:49 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 19, 2011, 12:43:51 AM
Final

104-71

It wasn't that close.
It was never close  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 19, 2011, 11:55:20 AM
I agree that UPS plays with spirit in spurts and they continue to get better at playing the entire game hungry. I still think there is a lot of basketball left and they can be top 3. Big fella is starting to understand his role and will be a different player when they play against WW at home. LC will have trouble at UPS this weekend, I see them not hitting the 3 ball like they have been the last few games. If they are not hitting the 3, I love UPS chances. I am sure Lunt will have them ready to push them 2-3ft further from the 3pt line and make them hit contested shots. UPS lost 4 straight close games down the stretch, I think thay are starting to see what it takes to play the entire 40 so right now, I do see them as a top 3 team once they figure it out and if they sweep this weekend, I think they will build off that and get 2 on the road at Pac and WU putting them at 6-4 and right in the mix of things.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 19, 2011, 04:16:43 PM
How is Whitman beating other teams?  The last three games they have played against WW haven't even been contests.  I have not watched them play other teams, but the schemes they come up with against WW are kind of ridiculous.  Last year's 1-3-1 zone worked the best.  Last night was ridiculous.  At one point I stopped the live feed and looked at the court.  Felix was at the high post.  One player was in the left corner and another on the left wing and another on the right wing.  The point had the ball at the top, shading to the right.  The man guarding Felix was denying him the ball 17 feet from the bucket.  The guy guarding the right wing was face-guarding his guy.  The point guard basically had a two car driveway sized lane to the bucket to play one on one with.  I guess that's why WW shot 60%.

I hear Pacific uses a 2-3 zone.  If they use that against WW, Arby's will be giving out sandwiches again.

Note:  Arby's has a deal that if WW breaks their 3-point record they give free sandwiches to everyone in the stands.  They've given out free sandwiches once this year already.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 19, 2011, 07:33:47 PM
Easy Rat.  Not trying to stir things up too much.    The Pirate lovers on this rag have been praising WW's offense all season long.   I am sure those of us who are not Pirate supporters would agree with that.  And I was not directing anything at you.  The You of "You can..." is plural in this case. 

I think you might have misread my post.  I wasn't implying that LC's D was all that good, I was saying WW's was.  I was very impressed, more with their D than their O, is all I was trying to say, and their D was what won the game for them.   LC played 4 guards and a forward against WW, and with WW's size and defensive ability, they didn't have a chance, and probably won't in Spokane.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2011, 09:17:46 PM
Buc,

Did you see the Whitman post come out on Felix, and then watch as the 260 pound center drive right past him for an easy bucket? Maybe it happened more than one but seeing Felix take someone off the dribble in the second half (all I was able to catch) made me just about fall out of my chair. Pretty sure I pissed myself a little from laughing. I have no idea what Whitman was doing, although the pressure worked against Whitworth's bench. I'm guessing it can be effective against some of the less disciplined teams in the conference???

Trymeteam,

You are right about Whitworth's defense being the difference this year compared to years past. But you said "stopping the Whitworth offense was not the problem" for LC. But it was the problem, just like scoring against the Whitworth defense was the problem. When the game is never a contest, all aspects or it are the problem.

And I'm curious what you and the other Pirate fans think, but I still think Mike Taylor is the best gaurd Whitworth has had. All around, size, speed, ball handling, shooting ability, his rebounding, etc. I've been very impressed...just wondering if anyone is starting to come around and agree as the season has progressed lol
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 20, 2011, 01:49:25 AM
 
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 19, 2011, 09:17:46 PM
Buc,

Did you see the Whitman post come out on Felix, and then watch as the 260 pound center drive right past him for an easy bucket? Maybe it happened more than one but seeing Felix take someone off the dribble in the second half (all I was able to catch) made me just about fall out of my chair. Pretty sure I pissed myself a little from laughing. I have no idea what Whitman was doing, although the pressure worked against Whitworth's bench. I'm guessing it can be effective against some of the less disciplined teams in the conference???

And I'm curious what you and the other Pirate fans think, but I still think Mike Taylor is the best gaurd Whitworth has had. All around, size, speed, ball handling, shooting ability, his rebounding, etc. I've been very impressed...just wondering if anyone is starting to come around and agree as the season has progressed lol

Felix is surprising light on his feet.  He has got around people and knocked post entry passes away several times over the last few games. Moves his feet very well on defense.   He does not have Nate's explosiveness, but he is playing well enough that WW is not missing Nate as much as I thought they would.  In fact, I think he has a better touch around the hoop than Nate did. Fun to see a guy step up like this. 

Mike Taylor is an incredible player, but it is hard to compare individual players from different years. What matters is how big of a mark the team makes. This team looks like it might leave quite a legacy. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 20, 2011, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 19, 2011, 09:17:46 PM
I'm guessing it can be effective against some of the less disciplined teams in the conference???


I have no idea what you could possibly be talking about.

:-[
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 21, 2011, 09:49:06 AM
Weekend schedule:

#3 Pirates wrap up 1st half vs Pacific at home tonight.  They should win by 20+ since it is a home game.  Shutting down on 2 guys is something WW can do and so Pac's only real chance is getting SIGNIFICANT contributions from someone(s) other than LA and CB.   2-5 might be PAC's record but that could be 5-2 second half.  This team's big game is Sat night at WHIT.  They really need to avoid getting swept in E Wash this weekend. 

PLU at LIN  Someone will leave this game 3-4 and be tied for fourth at the half way point.  The winner at 4-3 will be the team that everyone will be trying to climb over to avoid WW round 1.

GF at UPS  Both 2-4 in conf.  This would be huge for GF to win on the road and get to 3-4 (4th place, 1st half).

WIL at LC  If WIL wins this, even they could believe they might make the conf. tourney.  A loss will relegade them to 2nd half spoiler.  LC probably has to win all home games to hold the #2 spot.

WHIT 3-4 (tied for 4th) off

Saturday:

#3 WW off

LC at UPS            UPS

GF at LINF            GF

PLU at WIL           PLU

PAC at WHIT         PAC in OT
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 21, 2011, 01:28:02 PM
NWH:

Good Job!  With all the prognosticating (whew!) I do on this rag, I appreciate good analysis when I see it. 

However, you predicted Sat games, what about Fri.

Heres mine:

WW over PacU - A no-brainer
Linf over PLU - Linf fresh off two OT wins on the road, should be inspired at home.
GF over UPS - Not too sure about this one, so OR over WA
LC over Wil - I get to see this one, Linf just a little too far to go.  LC is too good for Wil.

Sat
LC over UPS - If they lose both Fri and Sat, Kea will be put out of Kea's misery. 
Linf over GF - Linf get the sweep and back in the playoff race
Wil over PLU - PLU down after a loss to Linf, upset time for Wil
Whit over Pac - Pac gets destroyed on Fri and wilts down the stretch against Whitm

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 21, 2011, 05:37:31 PM
TryMeTeam-Linfield did not win 2 games in OT on the road, one was at Pacific the other was at home against UPS. I see UPS taking both games this weekend. Had a chance to see LC play PLU, LC does not handle pressure that well and plus they have a short bench, they can wear PJ and Kelly down. I don't see LC getting hot at UPS from the 3pt line.

Now, lets play some hoops! I love this part of the week!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 21, 2011, 05:38:14 PM
By the way, I like the name Dre better than Kea, what do you guys think lol?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 21, 2011, 05:39:29 PM
How many posts do I need to get to get off the JV team? I am averaging 80 points a game on JV!!!!! I am like Whitworth in the NWC on this JV team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 21, 2011, 10:13:20 PM
Tonight (if any game has started then you can go ahead and ignore my prediction)

WW
PLU, will run too many guys at Wiser and co.
UPS, finally starting to play up to their talent level
LC, simply the better team

Saturday
UPS, just hoping to piss of Trymeteam lol
Linfield, Wiser gets angry and takes it out on the other team instead of posting on this board!
PLU, would love to see BP spiral into an even deeper depression
Whitman, no way pacific gets a win after a beatdown in Spokane followed by a 3 hour bus ride to Walla x2
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 22, 2011, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 21, 2011, 10:13:20 PM
Tonight (if any game has started then you can go ahead and ignore my prediction)

WW
PLU, will run too many guys at Wiser and co.
UPS, finally starting to play up to their talent level
LC, simply the better team

Whitworth won, PLU won, UPS won, and LC won...Boom goes the dynamite
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2011, 11:29:56 AM
Quote from: Keandre on January 21, 2011, 05:39:29 PM
How many posts do I need to get to get off the JV team? I am averaging 80 points a game on JV!!!!! I am like Whitworth in the NWC on this JV team.

I think it's 25, in which case you're almost there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 22, 2011, 01:00:49 PM
Dre:
You are right.  It was at Linfield.  Had I known that I might have gone the other way on the game last night, nah.  I am just terrible at this.  Nice win last night against Fox.  But, after watching LC last night, I will stay with LC over UPS tonight.  I feel only the Pirates can stop the 3 pt barrage LC has going right now.  Plus they play 5 guards at times and 4 guards most of the time.  That will negate UPS's pressure.  LC's weakness is defense, so Shelton could have a good game.

Rat: 
Nice job on the calls.  4 for 4, actually 3 for 3 with WW in the mix, an automatic.  If I could have a change, it would be PLU over Wil.  Watching them last night, they wore down real bad in the last 10 minutes.  But they will give PLU a game.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 22, 2011, 02:49:28 PM
Pacific didn't play the zone, but Arby's still gave out free sandwiches.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 22, 2011, 06:23:43 PM
Pacific played the zone during one possession. Riley's 3 ended that experiment pretty quick.

Tryme,
With no WW game tonight I may just go 0-fer!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 23, 2011, 01:41:32 AM
PLU puts the monkey stomp on Willamette, 99-72
Linfield escapes with a W, 80-76
LC beats UPS (I had a feeling I was gonna be wrong on this one  >:( ), 73-64
Whitman pounds Pacific, 94-65

7-1, I'll take it. Next weekend in Spokane? CAN'T WAIT! Thank you Bart Scott.

Hope Wiser enjoys playing in front of an actual crowd in Spokane!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 23, 2011, 02:16:10 PM
WW vs LC next Friday--Biggest conference game of the year.  The place will be rocking.  Should be a good game.

Linfield vs Whitman will be a big game for the fourth slot in the conference.  Eastern Washington is the place to be for NWC hoops next weekend.  

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 23, 2011, 02:34:24 PM
Rat:

I go 6-2 (with the late revision), but you take me down with a 7-1!  Cost you a perfect weekend record trying to piss me off!  lol

Buc:

The Pios will be ready, but that won't matter if LC can't get a shot off within 3 feet of the arc.  Missing Hollins will also be a big loss.  They will have McCullough back for this one.  But WW and Hayford know this is for the league championship, and they will be ready.  Too much going against LC for me to feel anything good about this one.  I unfortunately see WW in a blowout.

Linf and Whitm is a toss up.  Which Linf team will show up, the that got drilled by Will and then need 2 OT's to beat PacU or the one that beat UPS and GF.  I think they will get Whitm, but they will get drilled by WW on Friday first. 

Actually, Buc, both of these big games are on Saturday.  Friday's games could be set-ups for the Sat games, but I don't think they will matter if both teams at the top take care of business.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 23, 2011, 08:06:48 PM
TMT,

You are correct.  The LC/WW match-up is on Saturday.  Forgot they switch the order the second time through the league.  Helps Whitworth.  LC has to play Whitman on Friday and then drive to Spokane to play on Saturday.  It will be interesting to see how Wiser does against WW.  Last game he was bent over double trying to catch his breath the whole second half.  WW makes him work hard for his shots.  On offense, WW plays 4 guards and Wiser ends up guarding one of them.  He gets pretty tired running around the perimeter. He was pretty ineffective last game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 24, 2011, 12:30:25 AM
Congrats to LC for being strong this year despite the challenges.  The game at WW will be intense because yes, it could very well end up being the reg. season conference championship game.  I am sure WW will be prepared and hungry to "win/clinch" on Sat.  The LF game won't be close based on what I saw at LF.

So last weekend's games told us what?  

I think Pac is good but not good enough.  They don't appear to be improving or playing as a unit right now, but that might just be what WW does to you.  

Wil isn't....much and I don't think they will spoil much either for top5.  

GF is the official spoiler.  

UPS at 3-5 after 2-0 start, hmmmmmm. IF they can and that's a big if  :D find a way to #4 I will be surprised but it is still possible.  

LF and WHIT are both 4-4 and consensus is LF is a better team, can you say Wiser bud?  However, I think Walla Walla is on the rise and will beat LF at home.  They could even beat LC at home.  If they sweep next weekend, they could be headed to #2 or #3, real possible.  

LF is my choice to finish 5th.  They just aren't very good defensively and rely ENTIRELY on 1 guy.  Bad combo.  

PLU was my pick to finish 2nd and I am still on that.  They will overtake LC if they win at LC and give WW their biggest remaining test in Tacoma Feb 5th.

LC shouldn't fall out of top 3, but could.  I think the deck is stacked against them but they are well coached.

WW...c'mon!!  A real nice team.  #1 in the nation by the time the conf. tournament begins, if not sonner.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cciwrabblerouser on January 24, 2011, 12:35:15 PM
Anyone at WW have an update on the school's AD search?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 24, 2011, 01:27:37 PM
LC is a good team, they have guys who make big plays at big times of the game. UPS had a great game plan and executed it. Were up 7 and Kelly and PJ were visibly frustrated and were taken out of the game, the Wells kid, who can go, was also taken out of what he wanted to do. UPS slowed the game down and had it where they wanted it. Then, a kid that has not played much all year, came in and hit 2 HUGE 3 point shots and this young UPS team went away from what got them their lead. Kelly and PJ came back in and they took it home for LC. Very good game. UPS, did not have a great first half of season at 3-5 but a few of those games could have went their way. I think they can get at least 3 on the road at GF Pac and Wil, it will take a lot of hard work but they can get LC at LC, if they can do that and take care of home court and maybe get WW at home, they can be 10-6 and sitting pretty good in 3rd or 4th place. I know beating LC at LC is a long shot and WW at home is as well, but this young scrappy team can pull it out, especially since they are getting better with each game. Now is the time to start stringing together some wins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on January 24, 2011, 06:49:59 PM
Despite the record, the Loggers are a little better than I thought they would be this year, and I think they will be very good next year.  It's been a tough stretch--they had a brief second half lead at PLU and fell apart; they had the Linfield game in hand and fell apart; they nearly blew the game to Fox, and with all due respect to the GFU folks, Fox looked godawful.

UPS is young and has made big changes recently.  The guy who played point for most of the early season isn't in uniform anymore, and while I did not see him as a great UPS system guy (he's a  bit slower and less aggressive than most of the guys who've been great UPS guards in the system) it's tough breaking in a new backcourt in league; Rogers is playing quite a bit now and he didn't see much time at all until a couple of weeks ago.  BTW, that dude can shoot.   UPS added Gittens, an athletic 6'9" guy and are working him in--with him, Borboa, and Shelton this looks like a new kind of Logger team, big and potentially intimidating up front. 

With the exception of the Pirates, the league overall looks weaker now than it has in years.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 24, 2011, 07:13:17 PM
UPS just doesn't have the depth they've had in recent years. And by that I mean they can't put 4 guys on the court who can score. To me that was always their strength. Guys who could score from all over the court. I only ever saw them play Whitworth so maybe that's why I was never incredibly impressed with their defense. Yes, they always played tough and were real physical defending on-ball but the high shooting % from all over the court, with different guys doing it every night made them really tough. They were gonna put up 80 every night and you had to do the same to beat 'em.

The only player on this year's team you need to focus on defending is Shelton IMO. If he doesn't put up 25 points you are probably going to beat UPS. If Foster didnt put up 20, there were always 3-4 other who could. And then you had to worry about a guy like Boyce coming off the bench and hitting 50% of his 3pt attempts.

I personally don't see the talent there, even their young guys. I would be more worried about a team like Whitman, who has been upgrading talent significantly since Bridgeland got there, challenging for the conference in the next 2-3 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 25, 2011, 01:13:28 AM
WW #2 on d3hoops.com.

Still only 3 first place votes. 

Loggerfan1,

I thought UPS played WW hard. WW fans can make excuses for why it was so close, but the bottom line is they played hard.  Why is UPS so inconsistent?  You can't blame in all on youth. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on January 25, 2011, 02:04:01 AM
I think that the inconsistency in games is about youth, and the lack of a real identity with all the turnover--this team doesn't have the personnel to play the old pressure system, it's added many new players for the season and two new starters in the past few weeks.   They have frosh and sophs all over the floor, Shelton aside the juniors haven't played, and the one senior on the team is brand new to the conference.  They lost their point guard and have literally just started playing an athletic  6'9" guy who as far as I can tell wasn't on the roster before Christmas, and it'll take time to figure out how to play with him.  It's understandable that this is not a smoothly running machine.  The guys do play hard, they're often fun to watch, and from my perch up high the team looks like it has a good vibe.  All of this is a credit to Coach Lunt.   

I think they will play better than you expect down the stretch.  They should beat PLU and Linfield at home and Pacific, Fox, and Willamette on the road.  WW beats 'em, of course, and I think the backcourt is way too young and inexperienced to handle Whitman.   If this comes to pass, and I think it's plausible, that's 8 wins in conference.  This would be a nice improvement over last season and would mark the way toward 10 or 11 next year. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 25, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
There has been some talk on the board about the NWC being down this year! I'm not to sure! Other than WW I think it is pretty competitive. On a given night any of the teams could win.

When is the last time the NWC had two teams in the top 25? This is fun and makes for many very good games!

I think Lewis and Clark is pretty good. They depend on the 3 too much but they are tough! :-*
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 25, 2011, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: etule on January 25, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
There has been some talk on the board about the NWC being down this year! I'm not to sure! Other than WW I think it is pretty competitive. On a given night any of the teams could win.

When is the last time the NWC had two teams in the top 25? This is fun and makes for many very good games!

I think Lewis and Clark is pretty good. They depend on the 3 too much but they are tough! :-*
And PLU has #27 Massey, next is Whitman at #69 ahead of Linfield.  3 in top 30 is decent, so I agree, NWC isn't down.  WW is up (again)!  Riley and Taylor could be All Americans, and Loofburrow WILL be next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 25, 2011, 06:05:06 PM
I'll be surprised if Riley and Taylor are not on one of the All American teams. Riley has been good for four years. Taylor is a D1 guy so no surprise there!
I was not aware of PLU or Whitman but kudo's to NWC!
It has been a fun year so far!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 26, 2011, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: etule on January 25, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
On a given night any of the teams could win.

I can think of one that can't.

The fact is that Willamette is regressing as the season goes on, essentially going from winning a few games to competitive losses to giving up 117 points tonight (:o) at George Fox.

If nothing else, this season should be showing the NWC just how good Cameron Mitchell was.  The Bearcats returned four starters this year - everybody but Cam - and went from decent to disaster.  Unreal.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 26, 2011, 12:14:57 PM
There is no reason to let a team score 117 pts. GF is good but not that good. Stepping up on D might help their situation! Yikes!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 26, 2011, 12:24:52 PM
Wow!  Willamette has problems. I can't see this result as acceptable or even explainable.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 26, 2011, 01:29:43 PM
I have to agree that the conference is not really down very much.  LC is as good as they have been for the last 2 or 3 years (would be better without the injuries).  UPS does not have the talent they had two years ago (comparable to the talent WW has now) and Willamette is not the same team.  Everyone else is pretty much the same.  Linfield misses Tesero, but he hurt them as much as he helped them.  NWC teams have played some good teams very well.  Also, WW's margin of victory has been about the same playing non-league games and some of the teams they have beaten are doing well elsewhere.   

I think WW really needs to prepare for this weekend. LC is tough and Linfield can get hot. Hopefully, the victories over these teams  in December won't make WW overconfident.  It's gonna be a fun weekend of basketball.

Bummer about Willamette. Mitchell was a beast.  Fun to watch.  Can't imagine they miss him that much though.  Something must be going on with the team to fall this far.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 26, 2011, 10:23:27 PM
My take:  The league is down.

WW ran the table last year.  How do you improve on that?  Okay, I think they are better.  +1

LC is about the same, probably a little bit better, but my premise is that they would not be if the league was equal or better.  +2 reluctantly

Linfield and Fox are both a lot down this year.  Both teams were somewhat feared last year and finished #2 and #3 in the league.  This year not.  -2 = 0

Will finished the year on a nice run.  Better last year -1 = -1

Pacific could give teams a game last year, cannot this year -1 = -2

I am not sure where they finished last year, but PLU, UPS and Whitm all seem about the same to me.  0 = -2.

League down.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on January 26, 2011, 11:15:19 PM
TMT is obviously right.  Two years ago NWC had two teams capable of going long in the tournament, and LC was very good.  Now?  WW is huge, everybody else is good to ok to bad.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 27, 2011, 01:51:12 AM
Quote from: loggerfan1 on January 26, 2011, 11:15:19 PM
TMT is obviously right.  Two years ago NWC had two teams capable of going long in the tournament, and LC was very good.  Now?  WW is huge, everybody else is good to ok to bad.

I disagree.  Two years ago, WW got beat by in the second round and UPS got kicked in the 3rd round by a team that I think got beat in the next game.  Last year WW should have won round 3.  I think WW last year was better than the the UPS team of two years ago and I think this WW team is better than last year. If LC wins out except for WW, I'd have to rate them comparable or better to the WW team of two years ago.  So, at least the top of the league is better.  PLU is better than they were the last two years as is Whitman.  Linfield is seriously underachieving, but still have talent. So the middle of the league is probably comparable.   Willamette, GF, and Pacific are struggling. I don't think the bottom of the league was this weak before. The bottom of the league provides some rest that did not exist before.  However, overall, the league is probably pretty comparable.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 27, 2011, 11:59:06 AM
I'm with a buc forever,

Whitworth is better than any team I've seen in the NWC for quite some time. +1

I think LC is better than they were last year, but probably not as good as Whitworth was 2 years ago, let's say +1

So the conference doesn't seem to have a competitive #2 or #3 like in years past but I think that's simply because Whitworth is that much better than any other team has been in years past.

Linfield and GF are worse than they have been the last couple years, BUT they have been replaced by PLU and Whitman who are MUCH better than they have been the last 2 seasons. They all just cancel each other out (using the +, -, evaluation) and switch spots in terms of conference strength.

Willamette is worse, not much else to say about the Bearkitties -1

Pacific is worse -1

UPS is worse than they were 2 years ago but not much has changed since last year +0

I come up with +(-) 0  The conference isn't worse, Whitworth is just better and a slight changing of the guard has happened between the 3rd-6th spots.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 27, 2011, 12:41:21 PM
Good analysis! I agree ! A changing of the guard but all in all NWC is pretty competitive if you take out WW ! I would like to see WW go on a run in the tourney!
This weekend will sort things out quite a bit!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on January 27, 2011, 07:39:52 PM
Comparisons between the 2008-09 16-0 uPS team and the 2009-10 WW team....I don't know.  Last year WW was the only team in NWC with a winning record overall. WW was great, but the league was unimpressive.   Puget Sound swept the league with WW at 23-6, third place team at 16-10.  I don't know which team was better.  I also thought UPS should have won its third round game.  Sucked that the other guys scored more points that day!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2011, 11:35:09 PM
Okay, everyone agrees that WW is the best team in the conference.

Who will be the other 3 teams in the playoffs?

Gotta go with LC as the #2 seed (way out on a limb there, huh?).  But they will be challenged in the second half.  5 of their 8 second half games on the road including the first 4 makes for a tough road.  Only home games: Pac, PLU and UPS.  They have to get Whitman tomorrow or even the second seed may be in danger.  Not sure they will go after WW too much because a win doesn't help them.  They will have to go through WW in the playoffs and everyone knows it is tougher to win 3 in a row, and the last game is the most important.  But even if they do win the 3rd, they will be back in Spokane for the DIII playoffs.  WW has all the advantages, but they earned them.

Whitman as my #3.  Reverse schedule of LC, 5 of 8 at home, and 4 of those teams have to go to WW to play the night before or after.  Away games: at Pac, PLU and UPS, all should be wins with UPS being the focal point tough game.  They could easily go 6-2 in the second half, and 10-6 would be good enough for 3rd.

PLU is my #4, but not a strong pick.  Their schedule is favorable, 4-4 home/road, and their EastWA trip is over.  They start the 2nd half at GF and PacU, two games they should win before taking on the EastWA teams at home.  Other than the blip against PacU, they have only lost to WW and LC.  I think Whitman gets them this time around as well as WW and LC, and another surprise loss to finish 9-7.

There very well could be a tie for that last spot or even last two spots.  UPS seems to be playing better (Dre will say/has said definitely playing better), and only have to play LC on the road for a tough game.  Their other games are at Wil, GF, and PacU, very win-able games.  But being a game out and behind the other playoff teams could really hurt them.  

Linfield's bubble could pop with 3 losses in the second half to start.  They got Whitman the first time, but Whitman is better now and Linf has to play at WW first.  We saw what happened to PacU on the second night of that trip.  4-4 games at home/away doesn't aid their chances, and I see them going 4-4 to finish 8-8, and just outside.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2011, 01:28:00 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2011, 11:35:09 PM
Okay, everyone agrees that WW is the best team in the conference.

Who will be the other 3 teams in the playoffs?
I thought the NWC had a three-team playoff.  Am I just crazy?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 28, 2011, 12:30:01 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 28, 2011, 01:28:00 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2011, 11:35:09 PM
Okay, everyone agrees that WW is the best team in the conference.

Who will be the other 3 teams in the playoffs?
I thought the NWC had a three-team playoff.  Am I just crazy?

They have gone to a 4 team playoff.

Quote from: loggerfan1 on January 27, 2011, 07:39:52 PM
Comparisons between the 2008-09 16-0 uPS team and the 2009-10 WW team....I don't know.  Last year WW was the only team in NWC with a winning record overall. WW was great, but the league was unimpressive.   Puget Sound swept the league with WW at 23-6, third place team at 16-10.  I don't know which team was better.  I also thought UPS should have won its third round game.  Sucked that the other guys scored more points that day!   

The UPS team from 2 years ago had similar levels of talent to the WW team of this year and they are hard to compare since UPS played the fast up and down game and WW plays a more controlled game.  However, I thought that UPS team faded at the end.  WW beat them in the league championship and gave them a great game the second round of the tournament even though the guy that was guarding Foster hurt his knee in the first round game.   Then UPS got their hat handed to them in the third round.  Last year's WW team finished strong and were in posiition to win their third round game. OK, they blew it. No other way to say it.

I would put last year's team on par with the UPS team of two years ago.  This year's team looks better than last, but their legacy   will depend on how they finish.  I'm worried about the playing time Wade Gebbers has missed recently.   Foul trouble really worries me.  When they get in a game with lots of fouls called, it really hurts them.  The bench is short. We'll see how they finish, but right now you have to say they are having as good a season as they could possibly have (how's that for a non-controversial statement).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 28, 2011, 03:36:49 PM
There is a lot of basketball left to play, a lot of things can happen from the 2-6 teams. I still think that UPS will make a run and be in the top 4 in the end. They can take care of business at Pac tonight, Wil tomorrow, get Whitman PLU and Linfield at home, and go to Fox and get one there, that is 6 wins which will put them at 9-7 and that is a pretty good spot to get in the top 4, plus, if they can get LC at LC, that is for sure possible, even though it is their coaches last home game and senior night, if UPS brings it, they will beat them. Plus, they get Whitworth at home and UPS is better now than they were at Whitworth minus the long road trip. Plus, the game was a good hard fought battle by UPS so who knows, they may be able to get WW at home if they play flawlessly lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 28, 2011, 03:40:29 PM
That means they could possibly get 10 wins, which is not out of the question.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 28, 2011, 10:50:24 PM
The #2 in the nation Whitworth Pirates over Linfield

Whitman over LC

PLU over  G' Fox

Pac over UPS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 29, 2011, 12:16:01 AM
Whitworth wasn't able to hold Linfield to 14 in the first half this time.  The Wildcats got 16.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2011, 12:34:24 AM
I would be embarrassed if I was a Linfield fan and had to watch Doty keep in his starters and start pressing with 5 min left in the game against the Pirate backups. Wiser still has more fouls than points...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 29, 2011, 01:02:19 AM
Wiser, K.C.   *   0-6   0-2   1-2   7   0   4   1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2011, 01:24:15 AM
You think 'ol "playball" still reads the forums?

Wiser's like Sasquatch to me. I hear all these stories and but I've never seen him...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2011, 01:26:12 AM
Tonights winners...

WW (70-43)
Whitman (80-70)
PLU (60-58)
UPS (79-73)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2011, 02:22:24 AM
Haha I'll give it to you, thats pretty funny Rat.  Whitworth played a great game and showed why they are ranked #2 in the nation.  On a different note, BIG win for Whitman tonight, giving Whitworth a little more room.  A split would be huge for Linfield right now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2011, 12:33:35 PM
Doty really hung you guys out to dry. Point Special was right. Lot of either standing around or useless/wasted motion. Linfield is good enough inside that they could have used the pick and roll more effectively to get the ball down low with someone other than Fredit or Loofburrow defending the post. Could have gotten Riley in fouls trouble and not had to rely on hucking up contested 3's. Reallisticaly, Linfield wasn't going to win. But when option A isn't working I'd expect my coach to do something different to try and get my team back in the game.

I like what Castle said last night. Whitworth keeps expecting challenges and close games but they just haven't gotten one yet. I don't expect tonight to be any different. There is zero pressure on Whitworth now with the LC loss. And looking at the stat line something might have happened to McCoullagh (sp?). Either way, LC will only stay in the game if they can outrebound the pirates on both ends of the court. I don't know how else they can limit Whitworth's possessions and get enough possessions the selves to win in Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2011, 02:11:13 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 29, 2011, 12:33:35 PM
Doty really hung you guys out to dry.

Thats not really all that true.  Whitworth's defense was able to control and contain most of our sets regardless.  Another off game by us and good game from them.  The game plan worked for a while but we, as players, weren't able to keep it going.  Thats not on the coach
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 29, 2011, 02:51:07 PM
Whitworth clamped down on D as LF tried to slow it down first half and play for a good shot.  Holding a team to 16 points is not bad offense.  WW was switching on some screens which tells me they have tremendous confidence in themselves to guard and help any matchup.  Might be a reason why Loofburrow didn't get many minutes.  They didn't need his offense, I know that much is true.

70-43 or 90-57,  WW is clearly VERY MUCH better than the number 4 team in conference as I predict LF to be battling for that 4th spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on January 29, 2011, 03:58:10 PM
Pios lose to Whitman. Tough to win a game when you give up 21 offensive rebounds and turn the ball over 19 times.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 29, 2011, 05:56:37 PM
Good win for UPS on the road at Pacific. Pacific may not be winning games but with the exception of the WW WM road trip, those kids play very hard. They have a pretty good group of guards that play very scrappy. I like Wester and Bartlett.

What are everyone's predictions for toinights match ups?

UPS over Wil
Pac over PLU
WW over LC
WM over Linfield
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 29, 2011, 05:58:32 PM
Can LC beat WW tonight?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2011, 06:51:04 PM
They CAN...this is basketball. One player can make a difference, a team can go real cold (or get real hot) shooting from the outside, etc.

Just don't expect LC to win.  Is McCoullough hurt? I don't know how they match up in the half court without him at least defensively, offensively he's seemed pretty irrelevant all year. When you have the guards that LC does I guess there isn't a need to go inside to him.

Look for Freidt and gaurd Taylor to have very efficient games on the inside. LC needs to pray that both Gebbers' go cold, then they need to get Riley in foul trouble (not the hardest thing to do) and make Loofburrow work inside-out when he comes off the bench. I don't think there is anything you can do to rattle Whitworth and force turnovers, so you also better shoot a high % because you aren't going to get a lot of extra possessions. After you do ALL that you still might not win but it would be a heck of a game to watch at the end.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 30, 2011, 12:23:24 AM
UPS over Wil
PLU over Pac
WW over LC
Linfield over Whit

I know this is late but its what I would have done  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 30, 2011, 11:42:47 AM
Whitworth             10-0   19-0
Lewis & Clark            7-3           14-5
Pacific Lutheran         7-3           12-6
Whitman                    6-4           13-6
Puget Sound            5-5           8-11
Linfield                    4-6           8-11
George Fox            3-7           5-14
Pacific (Ore.)            2-8           3-16
Willamette            1-9            4-15

Whitworth all but locked up the #1 seed for the conference tourney, but they need to keep winning for any chance to host past the second round. Whitman, UPS, and Linfield look like they are the going to battle for that last playoff spot. I like Whitman, but I don't know how much I trust them to win on the road. Watching Linfield this weekend I don't see them getting through the rest of the schedule without dropping a couple and jumping both UPS and Whitman.

PLU will stay 3rd after they drop the Whitworth game and then go down to LC and lose.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on January 30, 2011, 06:01:36 PM
As much as I dislike saying it, I think Whitman will beat Puget Sound handily next weekend. The UPS backcourt is too inexperienced and turnover prone--over 30 turnovers last night in Salem, and WU isn't WC.  The same problems that lead to all those lost second half leads will hurt Whitman.  WW wins here, too, of course, though I am hoping for some frenied Logger play and a close contest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on January 30, 2011, 06:02:55 PM
...whoops, I meant the factors leading to lost second half leads willmhurt UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 30, 2011, 11:36:45 PM
Dre:

I finally got to see UPS play this weekend, and I have to agree, Gittens is a speciman.  He is pretty raw right now, and his statics confirm that.  But he has a ton of potential. 



I got to see PLU play for the first time this season, and they looked darn good to me, although they were only playing the lowly Boxers.  They shot very well, rebounded well, and played an up-tempo game that gave PU a ton of problems.  But they had retaliation on their minds having lost the first round game to the Boxers.  I still like them as my #4 pick at the end of the season.

WC came through and beat LC leading pretty much for most of the game.  LC struggles trying to keep up with the fast pace both Fri and Sat.  Like I said, that EWash round trip is tough.

All WA and all OR games this weekend.  I gotta say, the WA games look a lot more exciting!  I will go to a couple of the OR games, but I will be watching the games up North on the internet stats with interest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 31, 2011, 03:15:44 PM
The biggest improvement in PLU this year is their defense! Playing much better team defense which is what got them by GF. The Pacific game was definitely pay back. They did not play well in the first game!
This weeks games in Wash will be interesting! I think PLU Whitman is going to be a great game! I would love to see someone give Whitworth a challenge and see how they react!
From what Ive seen this year PLU can play half court or up tempo depending on who they are playing. Best PLU team in a few years! 8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 31, 2011, 05:18:08 PM
Ups has redemption on their mind these next 4 games, Whitworth will get more than a challenge and Whitman will get beat. Plu is coming in and they will get beat, after that, linfield comes in and they will get beat. Ups is a team that may turn the ball over but they are still in games with a chance to win. Their guards get better every game and Anthony will have a better showing against the eastern washington teams. Redemption and a spot in the top 4 is what is on their mind, they will b hungry.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 31, 2011, 06:11:50 PM
UPS may well win  all those games but it won't happen if they turn the ball over! Whitman and Whitworth and PLU will win if they win the turnover battle. UPS is a tough team but to win they will have to be efficient.
If they are they are very tough! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2011, 08:47:43 PM
Being a Tar Heel fan, it was fun to see Duke get their butts kicked on Sunday.  It also made me realize once again, that in college basketball you can lose ANY game on the road.  Poor shooting happens and when a team punches you in the mouth everytime you go inside, eventually you take the jumper out of self preservation even if you know you are gonna miss.  I think the only way you stop WW is to catch em cold and shut down the inside.   Fortunately, Pirates have 5 guys that have to be off.  Duke only has 4.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 31, 2011, 10:52:28 PM
Dre:

You are a typical UPS fan!  :)  I love your loyalty, but I just don't see them on your fantasy winning streak.  Let's see:  they won their last two games on the road, always a good thing.  But against Wil and PacU by a total of 10 points.  That means they just barely won over the two weakest teams in the league.

Before that, the lost to LC, but played them tough until the end, a team WC beat pretty soundly.  They got Fox at home, another lower level team, by 5, and lost to Linf in OT before that on the road.

I love your optimism, but it just seems misplaced.  UPS looks like they will go 2 and 4 over the last 6 games, not 3-1 over the next two weeks, with Linf and Fox being the only wins I can see, and they are not a certainty by any means.  

They may be hungry, but the pressure that got them the win at PU will not work in the last 6 games against upper tier teams.  Their size will be tough to match up with, but they will have trouble matching up with the guard oriented LC ad WC while WW and Linf can match up with their size.

But it is good to hear from someone who is not spouting off about the wonderful Pirates!!!!!!!  :)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 01, 2011, 01:05:12 AM
Regardless of how they won, winning is a confidence builder and challenging the top teams in the league on the road is a very positive thing. I am not a typical UPS fan because I know UPS is not perfect and they can lose if they don't play the eight way. I am saying if they take care of the ball, which they can and execute the game plan, they can beat ww wc plu and linfield at home, not impossible. A great friend of mine said to me, "anything can happen when u lace'em up!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 01, 2011, 11:23:38 AM
I mean the right way, not eight way. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2011, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: Keandre on February 01, 2011, 11:23:38 AM
I mean the right way, not eight way. :)
You can always use that little modify button to correct those typo's.  I do it ALL the time.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 01, 2011, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2011, 11:25:58 AM
Quote from: Keandre on February 01, 2011, 11:23:38 AM
I mean the right way, not eight way. :)
You can always use that little modify button to correct those typo's.  I do it ALL the time.  Cheers!
Maybe not at 30 posts, though.  The threshold for "modify" might be higher.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 01, 2011, 02:17:24 PM
Quote from: playball on January 29, 2011, 02:11:13 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 29, 2011, 12:33:35 PM
Doty really hung you guys out to dry.

Thats not really all that true.  Whitworth's defense was able to control and contain most of our sets regardless.  Another off game by us and good game from them.  The game plan worked for a while but we, as players, weren't able to keep it going.  Thats not on the coach
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 01, 2011, 02:26:40 PM
I really like the attitude ! If the Lindfield players have the attitude of Playball then they have a chance. Taking responsibility to a key ingredient to being successful !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 02, 2011, 01:37:53 PM
Why a student from Syracuse would write this, I have no idea, but great article:

http://www.dailyorange.com/sports/battle-hayford-keys-remarkable-d-iii-success-1.1951484

Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 31, 2011, 10:52:28 PM
But it is good to hear from someone who is not spouting off about the wonderful Pirates!!!!!!!  :)

TMT,

Hope you're not too offended by the article. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:21:54 PM
First Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/02/ncaas-mens-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 02, 2011, 05:34:43 PM
Terrible article!  I am tired of all of this crap!

Nah, it is all good and Hayford deserves all of the credit he gets.  He has ins at several JC's that produce quality players, year after year.  He is the master at retooling.  His system is well rehearsed and performed to perfection.  He is a great coach to be able to recruit to that barn and in that lovely city of Spokane where the cold is colder than anywhere else.  The players play hard for him, rarely having an off night.  Certainly the class of the league.

Enough, back to Pirate bashing!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 02, 2011, 06:48:52 PM
Yes, Hayford does a fantastic job. With that said, UPS will come out on top Friday! If not, oh well, we will get Whitman the next night lol!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 04, 2011, 09:42:39 AM
WW over  UPS
PAC over FOX
LIN over WIL
PLU over WHIT

Looks to me like the top 4 teams are emerging.  Overall records tell the tale:

Whitworth               10-0    19-0
Lewis & Clark             8-3     15-5
Pacific Lutheran         7-3     12-6
Whitman                   6-4     13-6
Puget Sound              5-5     8-11
Linfield                      4-7     8-12
George Fox               3-7     5-14
Pacific                     2-8      3-16
Willamette                1-9      4-15
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 04, 2011, 04:18:37 PM
Overall records for some of these teams are fools gold because some of these teams played some very questionable teams. There will be a lot of schuffling after this weekend 2-5.

UPS over WW
Pac over Fox
Lin over Wil
PLU over Whit
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 04, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
Sorry, Dre.  As much as I would love to see your Loggers beat the Pirates, I just don't see it.  They are just too tough.  I thought you said you were not the typical UPS fan.  You must be to pick them over WW.   :)

WW over UPS
Fox over Pac
Lin over Wil
Whit over PLU

I feel good about these predictions which means I probably will go 0 for the night.   But that would mean Dre got the call of the season.  :)   Go Loggers!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 05, 2011, 01:47:59 AM
Ww is very good, big fella killed the loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on February 05, 2011, 02:41:30 AM
Dre, I thought Friedt was good, stronger than the inexperienced guys UPS has onside.  Taylor is the bomb, there with Matt Glynn as the best player I have seen in over 10 years of watching this league.  Overall, I thought WW was just that, good.  There have been much stronger teams in the NWC over the years, just not this year.  I left thinking that the Loggers will be damn good next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 05, 2011, 03:34:25 AM
If they can win the next 3 a home, they can maybe get that 4 spot. UPS is not out of it yet. Still plenty of hoops left. I love this stuff!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 05, 2011, 11:33:05 AM
I once said that as long as the Bearcats swept Linfield, they could lose every other game.

Be careful what you wish for folks, but for now, I'll take it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 05, 2011, 01:19:08 PM
WW's win last night was very solid.  The fact is Whitworth improved over the previous game vs UPS which was at home.  Not much more you can hope and strive for than to get better.  UPS led 5-0 but as soon as that lead was gone there was very little drama as to the outcome.

PLU losing is a wow.  Bridgeland has his program on the rise and I would expect it to stay in top 5 for as long as he is there.

Hopefully, WW will not think that the PLU loss will mean an easy game tonight.  I think that PLU should be the #3 team in conf. but Whitman just shook that hard.  PLU might be the team fighting off the rest for #4 and a cold trip to Spokane.

LINF losing is kinda typical of their year.  Up and down nights.


Nice win for FOX.  I went 1-3 but got the one that mattered  ;D :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 05, 2011, 03:37:54 PM
Hoops:

Very solid win?  Against a team that is 5-6, and 8-12?  Maybe I am just playing with semantics, but I would label that win as just a good win, not solid.  UPS is tough at home, but a 13 point win just doesn't get me excited.  I would think more "glad  to get that one out of the way".

PLU's loss, or more WC's improvement was not a wow to me.  They beat 2nd place LC at home, and are really playing well right now.  In the last month, they are 7-1 since their last meeting with PLU.  A little revenge and a lot of improvement eliminated the wow for me.

Linf loss to Wil was a wow for me.  There goes any hope for a playoff spot for them, although it was a prayer before.  Last place up for grabs tonight in Salem.

PacU is just finishing out the season, so any team that really wants to win will take care of them, and that's what Fox did last night having a slim hope of playoffs.

I went 3-1 last night, hooray!  I finally finished above .500!  Write it down, probably won't happen again.  So I gotta try again, with confidence.

WC puts UPS out of their (and Dre's) misery.  Big game for UPS who will stay 2 games behind PLU, unless.....
WW gets the highly favoered win over PLU
Wil wins the battle of the cellar over Pac
LC keeps Fox 3 games out of the playoff spot with 4 to go with a win in Newberg

My picks for the final 4 are still solid with 5 games to go!

How's that for proping myself!  Sickening, but accurate.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 05, 2011, 03:51:50 PM
Hope Whitworth likes those #1 votes... they're going to get some more.  Wooster lost today to conference rival Wabash by 1 in OT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 05, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
Yes I just heard this and PointSpecial beat me to the board!  Party at PLU tonight about 8pm!!!  I be there for another "solid" win by the soon to be #1 team in the NATION!!  Go Pirates!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2011, 01:50:49 AM
Even though nobody that we said could beat Whitworth has actually done it, UPS was the closest on 2 occasions. I win. I don't think Whitman can pose a threat even in Walla Walla just because their system relies on a lot of possessions and a team like Whitworth just doesn't turn the ball over enough for Whitman to be effective.

Sorry I couldn't update on either thread tonight. Had to catch up with some good friends this weekend. Go Bucs
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 06, 2011, 03:18:44 PM
UPS loses to Whitman, very tough loss for them. Very difficult now to get that 4 spot. Whitman was more aggressive on the boards and getting to rim. UPS has a lot of soul searching to do to win out and have a chance at that 4 spot
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2011, 07:00:05 PM
It is official!  NWC has the top team in the country.  Go Pirates!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 08, 2011, 12:42:03 PM
They deserve it ! They are a really good team. Amazing! Good for the NWC! 8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 08, 2011, 01:54:36 PM
Congrats to Whitworth for the #1 Spot.   They deserve it -- I've seen them play.  The real deal for sure.  One concern I do have is that Jim seems to play the starters an awful lot.    Hope nobody gets injured.   Seems like when you're up 20 points with 4 minutes left, you could sub in some guys.  Just a thought!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2011, 04:41:42 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 08, 2011, 01:54:36 PM
Congrats to Whitworth for the #1 Spot.   They deserve it -- I've seen them play.  The real deal for sure.  One concern I do have is that Jim seems to play the starters an awful lot.    Hope nobody gets injured.   Seems like when you're up 20 points with 4 minutes left, you could sub in some guys.  Just a thought!
Yes let's hope the injury bug doesn't find its way to Spokane.  This team can go far, but will need the first 5-6 healthy the whole way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 08, 2011, 07:27:34 PM
I've never seen Hayford play more than 7-8 guys. I think it makes a whole lot of sense as long as you believe your players can put in the minutes. Why would you want your 2nd or 3rd best player (at a position) getting time if you don't need to put them in?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 08, 2011, 07:37:08 PM
Ask Doty!  He must have a reason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 08, 2011, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 08, 2011, 07:27:34 PM
I've never seen Hayford play more than 7-8 guys. I think it makes a whole lot of sense as long as you believe your players can put in the minutes. Why would you want your 2nd or 3rd best player (at a position) getting time if you don't need to put them in?

Rat - Have you made it to all of the games?  There have definitely been games (at least home games), where Hayford has been able to empty the bench completely.  Maybe not lots of minutes, but everybody on the active roster has had time on the floor.  This will definitely help come tourney time as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 08, 2011, 11:35:06 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 08, 2011, 07:37:08 PM
Ask Doty!  He must have a reason.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

TMT, thank you for that!

Seriously though, congrats to the Pirates.  Much deserved.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 09, 2011, 04:36:49 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 24, 2011, 12:30:25 AM
...
So last weekend's games told us what?  

I think Pac is good but not good enough.  They don't appear to be improving or playing as a unit right now, but that might just be what WW does to you.  

Wil isn't....much and I don't think they will spoil much either for top5.  

GF is the official spoiler.  

UPS at 3-5 after 2-0 start, hmmmmmm. IF they can and that's a big if  :D find a way to #4 I will be surprised but it is still possible.  

LF and WHIT are both 4-4 and consensus is LF is a better team, can you say Wiser bud?  However, I think Walla Walla is on the rise and will beat LF at home.  They could even beat LC at home.  If they sweep next weekend, they could be headed to #2 or #3, real possible.  

LF is my choice to finish 5th.  They just aren't very good defensively and rely ENTIRELY on 1 guy.  Bad combo.  

PLU was my pick to finish 2nd and I am still on that.  They will overtake LC if they win at LC and give WW their biggest remaining test in Tacoma Feb 5th.

LC shouldn't fall out of top 3, but could.  I think the deck is stacked against them but they are well coached.

WW...c'mon!!  A real nice team.  #1 in the nation by the time the conf. tournament begins, if not sonner.
My earlier post from half way point and here is TMT's!

Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2011, 11:35:09 PM
Okay, everyone agrees that WW is the best team in the conference.

Who will be the other 3 teams in the playoffs?

Gotta go with LC as the #2 seed (way out on a limb there, huh?).  But they will be challenged in the second half.  5 of their 8 second half games on the road including the first 4 makes for a tough road.  Only home games: Pac, PLU and UPS.  They have to get Whitman tomorrow or even the second seed may be in danger.  Not sure they will go after WW too much because a win doesn't help them.  They will have to go through WW in the playoffs and everyone knows it is tougher to win 3 in a row, and the last game is the most important.  But even if they do win the 3rd, they will be back in Spokane for the DIII playoffs.  WW has all the advantages, but they earned them.

Whitman as my #3.  Reverse schedule of LC, 5 of 8 at home, and 4 of those teams have to go to WW to play the night before or after.  Away games: at Pac, PLU and UPS, all should be wins with UPS being the focal point tough game.  They could easily go 6-2 in the second half, and 10-6 would be good enough for 3rd.

PLU is my #4, but not a strong pick.  Their schedule is favorable, 4-4 home/road, and their EastWA trip is over.  They start the 2nd half at GF and PacU, two games they should win before taking on the EastWA teams at home.  Other than the blip against PacU, they have only lost to WW and LC.  I think Whitman gets them this time around as well as WW and LC, and another surprise loss to finish 9-7.

There very well could be a tie for that last spot or even last two spots.  UPS seems to be playing better (Dre will say/has said definitely playing better), and only have to play LC on the road for a tough game.  Their other games are at Wil, GF, and PacU, very win-able games.  But being a game out and behind the other playoff teams could really hurt them. 

Linfield's bubble could pop with 3 losses in the second half to start.  They got Whitman the first time, but Whitman is better now and Linf has to play at WW first.  We saw what happened to PacU on the second night of that trip.  4-4 games at home/away doesn't aid their chances, and I see them going 4-4 to finish 8-8, and just outside.
TMT nails it.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 09, 2011, 11:49:14 AM
Thanks, Hoops!  First one I've nailed in the last.....ever!

But it is not over yet.  The teams are pretty much set, but the order could change.  If LC wins out, that will settle things the way I predicted, but one blip and it could all change. 

But I am happy with the way it sits right now.

Thanks, BP, too!  I hoped someone would enjoy that one!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 09, 2011, 11:54:01 AM
Oh, yeah, my congrats to the Pirates and their fans, too!  Well deserved, but I honestly didn't think they would get the nod over the other undefeated teams.  Maybe the NWC is getting some respect.

So why is WW that much better than the other teams from the near past?  I firmly believe the other WW and UPS teams were not much inferior on offense, but I am very much impressed with the defense.  It will carry them a long way, with crossed fingers, in the playoffs.  It would be fun to see WW upset in the NWC playoffs to get another team in, but it would just mean another game in Spokane.  And it just won't happen.

Go NWC!



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 09, 2011, 11:57:49 AM
Trymeteam,
LC has too much talent to slip up. You nailed the Whitman prediction and should be safe with LC at #2.

89,
http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/BasketballMen/Statistics/10-11/html/teamcume.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/BasketballMen/Statistics/10-11/html/teamcume.htm)

Only 7 guys play more than 6 minutes per game and number 7 (Ramey) is at 8 min per game. You won't find another team in the NWC who has a playing time distribution that looks like that. And every year Hayford does this. Its been working real well for him. Did you really not understand what I meant when I said 7-8 guys play???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 09, 2011, 01:10:28 PM
PLU wins a big game last night! They controlled the game but it got a little nervous when they had trouble with the press! They found a way!
Big game for them this weekend in Portland! Nobody wants Whitworth in the first game of the playoffs!
Been a long time since the Lutes made it to the playoffs. The players have stepped up! 8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 09, 2011, 02:43:01 PM
UPS loses 3 in a row. They get down big early and then they start to turn up the heat to get back in the game and cause turnovers. I think they should be pressing a lot more in the full court before they get so behind. It seems the kids play harder in the press.
Big win for PLU. Great crowd for both teams and it was a battle at the end.

For those that have seen this young UPS team, do you think they should be pressing more?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 09, 2011, 02:46:24 PM
By the way, MacTaggert and Bull are the biggest whinners I have ever seen and they flop like they just got hit by freight trains when they are bumped coming through the lane. I hope PLU gets WW in the first round so they can get beat by 30.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 09, 2011, 03:43:10 PM
Whitman is ahead of LC in the newest regional rankings
http://bit.ly/f20PQV (http://bit.ly/f20PQV)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 09, 2011, 04:31:15 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 09, 2011, 03:43:10 PM
Whitman is ahead of LC in the newest regional rankings
http://bit.ly/f20PQV (http://bit.ly/f20PQV)

To see Whitman in the regional rankings...WOW.  Whether you like him or not EB is a winner.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 09, 2011, 06:18:58 PM
Dre:

It depends on who you are playing whether to press or not.  The starting lineup has had  Borboa and Shelton the last few games, and it is tough to press with them in there.  They try hard and play hard, but they are just not good enough to press.  I have felt for the last few years, the press has worked against UPS, giving up too many easy baskets and not getting the turnovers they used to get.  When they add Gittens and go into a zone, they can match up pretty well with anyone.

The flexibility of this team, especially next year with all but one back, could be very tough to match up with:  Go big and zone, go small and press, etc.  I'm just not sure Lunt is wired to do this.  They pressed a weak PacU team and that worked for them very well.  Against LC they just fell back, knowing they couldn't press that guard oriented team.  If they go big, I just don't see how they can press for too much of the game.


The regional rankings will change again after WC plays WW.  LC gets 6 votes in the Top 25, WC gets none, but WC is 7 and LC 8 in Region.  Probably because WC has played one more game, and won.   I don't think that is accurate (I think LC is slightly better with each team winning on their home court), but they deserve to be present in the rankings!

Any way you look at it, the NWC only gets two teams in the DIII playoffs if WW is upset in the NWC tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 09, 2011, 07:17:38 PM
How cool is it to see 3 NWC teams in the top 8 of the West Regional Rankings?   Speaks well for the conference.   Wish that WU could be in the thick of that story, but we're having a year of transition and rebuilding.   Looking forward to better, more winning times.   Go Bearcats!

WTG to the others!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 09, 2011, 08:13:09 PM
Hey Keandre whose a whiner? Just checking! UPS is a physical tea,m . I like that about them. They get away with some fouls its all part of the game! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on February 10, 2011, 06:16:48 PM
UPS lost to PLU because it shot barely 50 percent from the FT line, repeating the (roughly) 50 percent performance against WW.  There's something to work on!  Loggers brought pressure like the old days for a few minutes against PLU and nearly stole the game.  Also thought that WW was really bothered by the press.  Keandre is right...crazy whining from the guys in black on Tuesday.  Buck up.  You are winning the right to be crushed at WW again!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 10, 2011, 07:01:05 PM
The foul disparity in that game was tilted towards UPS until the end when they had to foul. It was a great game and PLU won. I like Shelton and he is a beast inside. If you got banged around by him a few times you might complain also.
It was more execution rather than the press from what I saw. They PLU panicked.
Fourth place in the NWC is not settled just yet! But PLU will be in the playoffs this year and not UPS.
Judo's to PLU to making progress to get to the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2011, 08:18:36 PM
Quote from: etule on February 10, 2011, 07:01:05 PM
The foul disparity in that game was tilted towards UPS until the end when they had to foul. It was a great game and PLU won. I like Shelton and he is a beast inside. If you got banged around by him a few times you might complain also.
It was more execution rather than the press from what I saw. They PLU panicked.
Fourth place in the NWC is not settled just yet! But PLU will be in the playoffs this year and not UPS.
Judo's to PLU to making progress to get to the playoffs.

So they used UPS's leverage against them to get in?! :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 10, 2011, 08:36:52 PM
Good one, Ypsi!   :) :) :)   I was wondering what that meant until I figured it was just a typo error.

We must be careful what we write here.  Posters from afar are watching!!! :) :) :)


Etule:
You are right about PLU deserving credit for (most probably) making the playoffs.  They have stepped up this year, although my opinion is that the league is down.   I thought Linf or UPS might bypass them early, but they have played better than my expectations, and deserve all the judo's they get.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 11, 2011, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 10, 2011, 08:36:52 PM
Etule:
You are right about PLU deserving credit for (most probably) making the playoffs.  They have stepped up this year, although my opinion is that the league is down.   I thought Linf or UPS might bypass them early, but they have played better than my expectations, and deserve all the judo's they get.

To all the teams who thought Linfield might take a playoff spot from them ...

You're welcome. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 11, 2011, 01:04:34 PM
Press:

That was a little harsh.  How do you really feel about Linf?  :) :)  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 11, 2011, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 11, 2011, 01:04:34 PM
Press:

That was a little harsh.  How do you really feel about Linf?  :) :)  ;D ;D

TTM,

B-Press would trade those two hoop wins over Linfield in a 1/2 second for Willamette beating Linfield in football.  Since that didn't happen again, and for the 8th time out of last 10 years, he's just turning all of that pent up frustration towards Linfield football here on the hoops board.

It's pretty comical but I can understand why he needs the release.  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 11, 2011, 03:31:24 PM
LOL! Nothing else was working so they tried leverage!!! I know this kind of flipped the standings with PLU beating UPS twice!
If the league is down then the whole Region is down! Three teams in the top ten Regionally! (also includes the #1 team )
So it's more like PLU is better this year than the league being down!

Judo's to PLU!! :-*
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 11, 2011, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 11, 2011, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 11, 2011, 01:04:34 PM
Press:

That was a little harsh.  How do you really feel about Linf?  :) :)  ;D ;D

TTM,

B-Press would trade those two hoop wins over Linfield in a 1/2 second for Willamette beating Linfield in football.  Since that didn't happen again, and for the 8th time out of last 10 years, he's just turning all of that pent up frustration towards Linfield football here on the hoops board.

It's pretty comical but I can understand why he needs the release.  ;)

Good to see you're reading the hoops boards after all, 11.  I can understand your desire to minimize Linfield getting swept by a pretty bad Willamette team, but the football distraction won't work here.  Not after the way Taylor Mounts outplayed Wiser last week.

And since I'm a nice guy, I'll do you the favor of not getting into the 92-66 romp at the Cone earlier this year ... :P ;D

TMT - This season, Bearcat fans have to take the (few) positives wherever we can find them. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 11, 2011, 04:28:29 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 11, 2011, 03:53:34 PM
Good to see you're reading the hoops boards after all, 11. 

Saw your name on the front page figure you were taking a shot at Linfield, guessed right.

Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 11, 2011, 03:53:34 PM
pretty bad Willamette team

When you write that, you're just being redundant.  Just write "Willamette" since we all know Willamette teams, beside T&F, are of poor quality.

Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 11, 2011, 03:53:34 PMAnd since I'm a nice guy, I'll do you the favor of not getting into the 92-66 romp at the Cone earlier this year ... :P ;D

You are a nice guy B-Press and thanks for not using that heartbreaker to open a healing wound.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 11, 2011, 05:14:17 PM
Don't bring up T&F to a Willamette guy...over the last 4-5 years the balance of power has really shifted in both T&F and XC...gotta be kinda a sore subject ever since symmonds left
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 11, 2011, 06:20:49 PM
Does anyone think GF can sneak into the #4?   Probably not so who will finish 2-4?

Can PLU go 3-0, Whitman or LC go 3-1 or better?

Smells like a possible tie for 2nd with tiebreakers.

Predictions please!

I kinda think PLU gets the 2, Whit 3 and LC 4.  Not what I want but....

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 11, 2011, 11:52:20 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 11, 2011, 05:14:17 PM
Don't bring up T&F to a Willamette guy...over the last 4-5 years the balance of power has really shifted in both T&F and XC...gotta be kinda a sore subject ever since symmonds left

Right, Willamette's only won nine (and counting) straight titles in women's T&F, and won the 2010 West Region men's XC title?

You're right though, the conference has gotten better the last few years.  Guess we won't be able to win every T&F and XC championship any more. ::)

Quote from: wildcat11 on February 11, 2011, 04:28:29 PM
When you write that, you're just being redundant.  Just write "Willamette" since we all know Willamette teams, beside T&F, are of poor quality.

And that would be ... how many national titles Linfield has in men's basketball? :)

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 11, 2011, 06:20:49 PM
Predictions please!

1. Whitworth
2. L&C (just a gut feeling that the Pios will do it for Gaillard)
3. Whitman
4. PLU
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 12, 2011, 02:05:57 PM
BP,
I don't count women's sports when we are on a men's forum. You can go talk all kinds of trash in the women's XC forum...

Back to basketball. David Riley sets a school record with 10 three's in last nights beatdown of the Bearkitties. He was 10-19 from beyond the arc on the night. Whitworth wins 115-69...that is not a typo

Good luck GF...

LC should beat PLU all but guaranteeing the Lutes 4th place and a 2nd place finish for LC. With Whitman beating Willamette tonight, fans in Portland will have to hope nothing crazy happens next Tuesday
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 12, 2011, 07:15:13 PM
Rat:

Not if LC plays like it did last night.  PacU took everything LC gave it and had a chance to tie the game with 4 second left had the PacU coach not called timeout as his player was being fouled on a 3-point attempt.  PacU didn't look like a last place team, and LC didn't look like a 2nd place team.  PLU will be up, and fresh, for the game tonight.  

The question is:  Has LC started a late season slide?  They have lost 3 of their last 5 only beating last place PacU and non-playoff bound Linf.  PLU could be a challenge they might not overcome tonight.  I hope not, but it is surely possible.

Predictions:

I get to stick with mine made at the mid-point of the league for the final spots.  Nice to have BP support my picks, validation by another NWC junkie!

Tonight, 2 tough ones and 2 easy one:

WC over Wil
WW over GF
LC over PLU (LC knows they need this one to play at home in playoffs and stay out of Walla Walla or Tacoma,           and are home for this one, but they will have to play a lot better than last night).
PacU over Linf (tough one here.  PacU gets some revenge for the 2OT loss at home, and Linf might be on a              "seasons almost over" run about now, but they are at home).

Could be a rough night for my OR teams.  I would take 2-2 (got one fur sure).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2011, 07:21:32 PM
WW over GF
WIL ove WHIT...yep!  I said it.
PLU over LC
PAC over LINF
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 12, 2011, 08:12:36 PM
Linfied got drilled by UPS. Wiser had 4 points at half and got shut down and out played by giddens. Wiser got all of his stuff after being down by 30. UPS may not be in playlets but they can spoil lc and beat them next week and get fox as well putting them at 8-8. Not bad since most of you thought they sucked and would finish in 8th. Next year will b very fun to see how the league will be.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2011, 08:29:20 PM
Dre: UPS wasn't bad at all. In fact LF is the obvious choice for not meeting expectations. Pac had some bad luck/near misses. I really think NWC is tougher this year as a whole. As for next year talk, sorry I want a whole more month of hoops. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 13, 2011, 01:01:50 AM
Well this is the most embarrassing Eastern Washington trip I can remember.  :-[  Bridgeland has done a tremendous job turning Whitman around.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 13, 2011, 01:15:02 PM
Whitworth has an impressive second half after a first half where GF seemed to be dictating the action.  For only the second time this year, a team did it their way for 20 minutes.  Whatever happened at halftime, WW put a fast end to that.  Pirates play great defense and only give up 23 points in the last 20 minutes. 

Wade Gebbers is now officially on the NWC map.  Nice half Wade!!!  A sophmore, WG dominated after having 3 fouls in first half and very little PT.  Taylor rock solid, Freidt and Loofburrow sealed up the defensive boards nicely.  Riley had a great night Friday.  ;D

Whitworth now has just 2 days to prepare for a BIG game at WHITMAN.  Earlier this season I joked about these games, not joking anymore.  Whitman is 17-6 and hasn't lost in a fortnight or 2. ::)

Gotta love this pressure.  Whitworth getting tested every night out from here on in.  How they responded to the big challenge by GF last night was impressive and #1 -esque.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2011, 05:06:33 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2011, 07:21:32 PM
WW over GF
WIL ove WHIT...yep!  I said it.
PLU over LC
PAC over LINF

nwhoops, what were you "on" when you wrote this?   I don't think anyone expected WU to beat Whitworth in the Field House.   What I also didn't expect was the the incredible rudeness of the Whitworth fans.   When your team is up 40 points, don't boo the calls that are in favor of the other team and don't scream and carry on when the visitors get to go to the free throw line, one of four times to your 17 times in the 2nd half.   Even the Whitworth starter's parents were wanting the coach to clear the bench so someone else could play during the 2nd half -- c'mon Jim --it will serve you right if one of your main guys gets injured and you have NO ONE with playing experience to replace him on your playoff run.

Oh, and one more thing -- save a place for the visitors to sit.   It's rude to take over the whole place and then glare at someone who is one of twenty people cheering for the visiting team.   People travel a long way to get to Spokane so at least give them a decent place to sit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 13, 2011, 05:32:02 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 13, 2011, 05:06:33 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2011, 07:21:32 PM
WW over GF
WIL ove WHIT...yep!  I said it.
PLU over LC
PAC over LINF

nwhoops, what were you "on" when you wrote this?   I don't think anyone expected WU to beat Whitworth in the Field House.   What I also didn't expect was the the incredible rudeness of the Whitworth fans.   When your team is up 40 points, don't boo the calls that are in favor of the other team and don't scream and carry on when the visitors get to go to the free throw line, one of four times to your 17 times in the 2nd half.   Even the Whitworth starter's parents were wanting the coach to clear the bench so someone else could play during the 2nd half -- c'mon Jim --it will serve you right if one of your main guys gets injured and you have NO ONE with playing experience to replace him on your playoff run.

Oh, and one more thing -- save a place for the visitors to sit.   It's rude to take over the whole place and then glare at someone who is one of twenty people cheering for the visiting team.   People travel a long way to get to Spokane so at least give them a decent place to sit.

nwhoops meant Whitman, not Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2011, 06:27:40 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 13, 2011, 05:32:02 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 13, 2011, 05:06:33 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 12, 2011, 07:21:32 PM
WW over GF
WIL ove WHIT...yep!  I said it.
PLU over LC
PAC over LINF

nwhoops, what were you "on" when you wrote this?   I don't think anyone expected WU to beat Whitworth in the Field House.   What I also didn't expect was the the incredible rudeness of the Whitworth fans.   When your team is up 40 points, don't boo the calls that are in favor of the other team and don't scream and carry on when the visitors get to go to the free throw line, one of four times to your 17 times in the 2nd half.   Even the Whitworth starter's parents were wanting the coach to clear the bench so someone else could play during the 2nd half -- c'mon Jim --it will serve you right if one of your main guys gets injured and you have NO ONE with playing experience to replace him on your playoff run.

Oh, and one more thing -- save a place for the visitors to sit.   It's rude to take over the whole place and then glare at someone who is one of twenty people cheering for the visiting team.   People travel a long way to get to Spokane so at least give them a decent place to sit.

nwhoops meant Whitman, not Whitworth.

OK that makes more sense -- or it did last week.     :)   My mistake.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 13, 2011, 07:52:25 PM
I went 1-3 Sat night but got the one I cared about most and in reality most happy to see LC and WHIT battle it out for second.  Looks like PLU is a solid 4th now.  Have a nice trip over to Spokane Lutes.  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 14, 2011, 10:46:01 AM
I wonder what PLU's game plan will be to try and beat WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 14, 2011, 01:32:27 PM
So what is Whitman gonna do on Tues? They have been playing well since the beatdown in Spokane, but it's clear that the press doesn't bother Whitworth. It's down in Walla Walla, it's the only game Whitworth buses to, I guess anything can happen...

As for PLU, the only thing they can do is pray...they've been playing good basketball but the talent gap is just too big to make up. LC has the horses to pull the upset, but I just don't see anyone (Pios included) playing perfectly for 40 minutes against Whitworth
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 14, 2011, 05:55:53 PM
Bridgeland does know what it takes to win and had Whitman playing at a high level, if the tempo is not in whitman's favor, they will get drilled by WW again. On a side not about Bridgeland, he seems like a used car sales man they way he prances around shaking everone in the buildings hand and gives that devilish smile, what a clown.

PLU is just happy to get in the top 4, they will have an early exit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 14, 2011, 06:38:06 PM
But does Whitman really want an up tempo game against the Pirates? That was my question earlier. The last time they played Whitman forced the tempo...it led to 59 first half points for Whitworth! Whitworth isn't going to turn the ball over 20 times like the rest of the conference. So maybe you back off the press, slow things down while you're on D and then get out and run on offense? I don't know, that's why I asked others' thoughts.

Don't worry Dre, I'd be pissed too if Bridgeland left and my team was stuck with Lunt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 14, 2011, 08:16:18 PM
I didn't realise this was a comedy board! The team that gave Whitworth the best games has been UPS! I think Whitman pressures WW it's their only hope!
The 2,3 and four teams are not that far apart. I think LC is the best of the three! That being said no way does LC beat WW!
I think all the teams that are in the playoffs are happy to be there as would the rest of the league.
Bridgeland is a great recruiter!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 14, 2011, 09:34:25 PM
I don't think Whitman slowing things down would be beneficial for them either.  Whitworth is too good at controlling a game and are talented enough to get a high percentage shot most trips down the court.  A lot of Whitman's offense is fast breaking and beating defenses down the floor, so slowing it down would get them there too. I think that the best chance for Whitman to win is to fast break.  Whitworth has been playing their best guys a lot of minutes all year, they have to be feeling it by now. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 14, 2011, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 14, 2011, 05:55:53 PM
On a side not about Bridgeland, he seems like a used car sales man they way he prances around shaking everone in the buildings hand and gives that devilish smile, what a clown.

It's easy to shake everybody's hand when there's only 20 people in the gym at Whitman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2011, 11:38:26 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 14, 2011, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 14, 2011, 05:55:53 PM
On a side not about Bridgeland, he seems like a used car sales man they way he prances around shaking everone in the buildings hand and gives that devilish smile, what a clown.

It's easy to shake everybody's hand when there's only 20 people in the gym at Whitman.
+1   8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2011, 11:43:29 PM
I think Rat said it well when he says you got to play 40 minutes of near perfect to beat Whitworth.  GF did it for 20 minutes i guess and that's the closest anyone has come.  I think teams will do what GF did and try and stop Riley and Taylor and see if the next 4 of Whitworth can beat ya.  The answer is yes the next 4 can, but sometimes it takes 10 minutes to be up 20 points.  Staying close to Whitworth is what a team must do and I think the next 4 games will be entertaining for 10-25 minutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 11:23:01 AM
etule,
would you pressure on offense and defense? If you were Whitman.

I agree with playball, in that Whitman needs to run on offense. I said that in my previous post. But I've seen plenty of Whitworth vs. Bridgland games and I don't think I've ever seen Whitworth have trouble with the pressure Whitman applies on Defense. Even when he had talented players at UPS, B. Williams made it look easy. Last game Whitman came out and defended everyone, even felix, well beyond the 3 point line...do you really want to put that kind of pressure on all 5 Pirates? Especially when 3-4 of them can make you pay off the dribble and you might want help inside?

Love the drive-by by the old logger fans who don't post anymore...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2011, 02:19:05 PM
If I were Whitman, I would try and make Riley bring the ball up.  Not saying he is a poor ball handler, but he isn't the playmaker that Taylor and the Gebbers are.  If they can do that and then deny passes to Taylor as much as possible, they might have a chance.  Whitworth has an advantage in Felix, however he doesn't get enough shot attempts per game to win it by himself. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 02:59:11 PM
See that's what I'm talking about. Discussion!

I like playball's plan. Executing would be tricky with Clay, Wade, and Taylor on the floor but it could be very effective if executed. Speaking of Riley, on offense I would attack him and try to get him in foul trouble, something he's had trouble with from time to time. Hayford is smart and will hide Riley on defense using different matchups meaning as an offense you have to force the issue with on and off ball screens and plenty of movement.

Other thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2011, 03:22:54 PM
Hayford should put Riley on Peter Clark.  All Clark does is shoot threes, not much attacking the rim with him.  With that match up Riley would be able to just shadow him.  Little chance for fouls since Riley would have to stay by him and not be the help side defender. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 15, 2011, 03:54:22 PM
After watching Whitman play UPS and seeing how UPS gave WW a little trouble. I would say the best thing to do is mix up the press. Trap first pass or trap a certain player or trap a certain spot, this in return will keep WW guessing and while they are trying to figure out what you are doing, it takes a couple of guys out of the play for a bit and gets them against the shot clock which can make them do some things that they are not use to and that is force the offense a little more. Not saying they can't do that, but if you let them just run their stuff and not think about what you are doing on defense, then they are impossible to beat because they got size, speed and play makers through their offense. Also, offensively, I think having 4 penetrators at all times for Whitman will help get either Riley or Felix in foul trouble because if they get past Riley, then they can attack the big fella and if not, they can draw fouls on Riley which will sit him and give them a better chance at keeping it close.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LoggerNation4040 on February 15, 2011, 07:03:28 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 11:23:01 AM
Love the drive-by by the old logger fans who don't post anymore...

You've been posting on the site for two whole months...us Loggers don't need useless drivel on a chat board to stay engaged in our program.

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 14, 2011, 06:38:06 PM
Don't worry Dre, I'd be pissed too if Bridgeland left and my team was stuck with Lunt.

Not the case in Tacoma at all. 

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 11:23:01 AM
I've seen plenty of Whitworth vs. Bridgland games and I don't think I've ever seen Whitworth have trouble with the pressure. Even when he had talented players at UPS, B. Williams made it look easy.

Interesting viewpoint considering Whitworth averaged 20.8 turnovers per game vs UPS in '06 and '07 during Williams' junior and senior seasons. B Williams averaged 6.2 TO in those 5 contests.  Not exactly "making it look easy."

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 10, 2011, 05:42:31 PM
I don't have anything against UPS, but I remember seeing Bridgeland coached teams and being more impressed. And don't bring up 08-09 when Lunt had a good season with all of Bridgeland's recruits.

A good season?  They were only the first team in the current NWC to ever run the table...Lunt was the COY of a team that swept your Bucs in the regular season AND knocked you out of the Big Dance.  And by the way, both Antwan Williams and Rob Krauel were originally recruited by Lunt, not Bridgeland.

I don't mean to pick on you Rat, it just seemed that you needed some education. 

As for this weekend, I'm hopeful that the Loggers can snag these last two games and finish at a respectable 8-8.  Not bad for a young squad that was picked in the pre-season to finish 8th. LC presents some match-up problems as they always do but I think if our boys clean up the glass and contest the 3 well they'll be in good shape.  As for Fox, we beat 'em at home so I'm sure they'll be ready...not to mention playing for their seniors.  Tough but exciting weekend ahead.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 15, 2011, 07:28:26 PM
I agree with Dre on mixing up the defenses and hopefully making them adjust! I would also attack the rim on O and Whitman can do that!
I would also make them shoot off the bounce! We all know the can shoot threes when open. Even if they make a mid range shot if they make 7 less three's that's seven less points.
Everything is going to have to go right and every little bit helps. It is possible!
Just not probable! ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 09:17:10 PM
LoggerNation,

You could go to page 31 and see a post from 2006...I don't expect you to remember me posting in these boards because you weren't around almost 4 years ago.

Williams Assist to Turnover ration was almost 2:1 between his sophomore and senior seasons against UPS. Sure, he's no Nakamura (who led the nation) but most teams would be happy to have that production against a UPS D under Bridgeland. As talented as those UPS teams were, at times, Williams made it look easy. You probably weren't watching games then either.

Lol, and guys went to Whitworth because of Wecker. Sure he was the one who visited and had a lot of the contact, but Hayford is the head coach. Ultimately it is the head coach that is going to attract players, especially at a DIII level where you don't have the huge budget and staff. Bridgeland was the head coach when A Williams, Krauel, Foster, Marsh, you name 'em was recruited. Look at the talent UPS has now...look at Whitman's upgrade in talent. So yes, Lunt did it in 08/09 with a bunch of guys who came to UPS to play for Bridgeland. Since he took over in 06-07, winning percentage, shooting percentage, opponent shooting percentage has all dropped. If I was involved with a program that was so good for awhile, I would be a little upset. It isn't all rainbows and butterflies in Tacoma...PLU is better than you guys for crying out loud.

On a different note. I like Dre's idea of switching up the D. I was pretty convinced that pressure was a bad idea but if you can effectively switch HOW you are applying pressure, then you might be able to force a few more turnovers. Big IF, but against Whitworth a big IF is all you got.

playball,
good call on Clark. Nice to have someone who knows every other teams' personnel. Didn't know that about Clark, consider me educated.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2011, 11:06:12 PM
Glad I could help you learn Rat.  Now about my karma...   :)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 11:22:34 PM
Somebody gave you some. I'm still 70 posts away...can't help ya.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 15, 2011, 11:34:12 PM
Got your back, playball.

And I'm pretty sure that this:
Quote from: LoggerNation4040 on February 15, 2011, 07:03:28 PM
useless drivel
should be (509)Rat's new signature. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 11:47:45 PM
I always considered my "drivel" to be at least entertaining  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2011, 11:55:13 PM
Drivel is drivel haha    This is a very entertaining game to listen to!  Has a little bit of everything (Fans getting tossed, Raher steamrolling kids, 3 pointers galore).  Glad Im listening!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 11:57:39 PM
Don't forget that you have the privilege of listening to the best in the biz, Bob Castle
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2011, 12:15:21 AM
I like Castle, however I think Darrel Aune of Linfield was great too!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2011, 12:17:08 AM
If BP aproves then Aune must be good...

BP is not only the king of multi-sport posting, but also the resident guru of all things journalistic (is that a word?)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2011, 01:09:33 AM
Down goes Frazier!

Sorry Trymeteam, Whitman pulled off the upset. Whitman scored close to the last 15-16 points of the game.

A loss is a loss, it won't change much for the Pirates, but there goes any chance of them hosting after round 2 (I know, it wasn't gonna happen before, but now the NCAA has no reason to fly people out to Spokane)  :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2011, 01:12:08 AM
Dang!  I wasn't able to listen to the last 7 minutes!!!!   :'(   Unreal...  Congrats Whitman on pulling off what the NWC hasn't been able to do since the 2008-2009 season. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2011, 01:33:41 AM
Looking at the box score, it looks like the Pirates were doomed in the second half by two things.  #1 being Duckworth.  The kid has been unbelievable lately, there is a reason he is the NWC player of the week for last week.  Had a huge 2nd half.  #2 is that they couldn't buy a board!  Out rebounded by 15 in a half?  Whitworth?  Unlike them.  Giving up 10 "O" boards is surprising too. 

Wonder if Whitman mixed up the defense to try and slow down Taylor after half or if percentages caught up with him?  He didn't have a bad half, but 4-11 after going 7-8 in the first....

Felix only having 3 total shots?  Was Whitman running their 1-3-1?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2011, 01:42:39 AM
Where are you finding a box score? We have nothing here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2011, 01:52:09 AM
I had a hard time finding it also, my roommate found it first.  If you go to the Whitworth Athletic Website and then to the....  Nevermind.  The story with box score is now up on the Whitworth site. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 16, 2011, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 15, 2011, 09:17:10 PM
LoggerNation,

You could go to page 31 and see a post from 2006...I don't expect you to remember me posting in these boards because you weren't around almost 4 years ago.

Williams Assist to Turnover ration was almost 2:1 between his sophomore and senior seasons against UPS. Sure, he's no Nakamura (who led the nation) but most teams would be happy to have that production against a UPS D under Bridgeland. As talented as those UPS teams were, at times, Williams made it look easy. You probably weren't watching games then either.



Lol, and guys went to Whitworth because of Wecker. Sure he was the one who visited and had a lot of the contact, but Hayford is the head coach. Ultimately it is the head coach that is going to attract players, especially at a DIII level where you don't have the huge budget and staff. Bridgeland was the head coach when A Williams, Krauel, Foster, Marsh, you name 'em was recruited. Look at the talent UPS has now...look at Whitman's upgrade in talent. So yes, Lunt did it in 08/09 with a bunch of guys who came to UPS to play for Bridgeland. Since he took over in 06-07, winning percentage, shooting percentage, opponent shooting percentage has all dropped. If I was involved with a program that was so good for awhile, I would be a little upset. It isn't all rainbows and butterflies in Tacoma...PLU is better than you guys for crying out loud.

On a different note. I like Dre's idea of switching up the D. I was pretty convinced that pressure was a bad idea but if you can effectively switch HOW you are applying pressure, then you might be able to force a few more turnovers. Big IF, but against Whitworth a big IF is all you got.

playball,
good call on Clark. Nice to have someone who knows every other teams' personnel. Didn't know that about Clark, consider me educated.



To me, basketball is more than just a numbers game. It's about the relationship you build with your players. Bridgeland doesn't care about anyone but himself. Yeah, he can recruit very well and win some games but the way he treats people sucks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 16, 2011, 12:04:25 PM
Whit zoned quite a bit in the second half. WW also ran the clock down in the later stages but could not buy a bucket. Duckworth was awesome. I think that WW felt a little tight down the stretch. They haven't been in any close games!
The Gibbler brothers were in foul trouble and sat out quite a bit of the second half. Missed FT and layup killed WW! Whit played very hard and played lots of kids!
In the first half Taylor killed them knocking down jumpers from the top of the key coming off a pick. Whit did not hedge. Zone in second half. Token pressure most of the game I can remember one TO late in the game on a double team !
Fun game to watch!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
Amazing!  I turned it off when WW went up by 21 early in the 2nd half.  WW up by 14 with 5:41 to go and losing!  They just don't do that.  Now you know why Hayford keeps his starters in for as long as he does at the end of games!

Congrats to WC for a huge win!  They just won a first round game at home against LC and a return trip to Spokane!  With the way they are playing right now, and being at home, I have to favor WC against LC.  But that will be as far as it goes for them.

I have to say I saw it coming.  I have picked WC to finish higher than they have the last two years.  It just took Bridgeland a little longer than I thought it would, but I knew he would get there.

I agree with Rat and Dre about Bridgeland, but he can recruit, and I have always said so.  The talk (LN4040) about Lunt recruiting players is true, but missing the point.  The assistants recruit the players, but the coach closes the deal.  Bridgeland, Hayford and Gaillard are all great closers.  The rest of the NWC coaches are nowhere near these 3, and the league results year after year show this.  Now with Gaillard leaving, it looks like the league championship will go through EastWA for the near future, and I will have to hope Wil, Pac or LC gets a miraculous recruit.  Sorry, Playball, Linf already got theirs with Wiser.  They won't be due another one for awhile.  

I might have to go watch the Ducks or Beavers for a while.  Where is the DI posting board?   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:32:33 PM
Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 16, 2011, 04:25:14 PM
If you had told me three years ago that going into the final weekend of the 2011 regular season, Whitman College would be in pole position for second place in the NWC, having just beaten the #1 team in the country in front of a sellout crowd, I'd have laughed you out of my office at the Collegian.  Say what you want about Bridgeland, but the man. just. wins.  Kudos to the Missionaries - what they've done this year is remarkable.

A couple of miscellaneous items:

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 16, 2011, 12:17:08 AM
If BP aproves then Aune must be good...

BP is not only the king of multi-sport posting, but also the resident guru of all things journalistic (is that a word?)

Aune was the best when he was still broadcasting.  I once got to listen to some of his calls of Ralph Miller's Oregon State teams from the 80s - he had an uncanny feel for the game.

And I gladly accept the title of king/guru. ;D

Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
I might have to go watch the Ducks or Beavers for a while.  Where is the DI posting board?   ;D

TMT - Save your money: the best college ball in Oregon right now is being played at the University of Portland.  Seriously.  Before I went to Willamette, I was a diehard Pilots fan, so I know for a fact just how weird this state of affairs is.  I'd encourage you to check them out:  D-III work ethic (and ticket prices) with D-I talent.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2011, 04:35:59 PM
BP:

I believe you are right!  I watched them on TV almost beat Gonzaga.  But I gotta admit, I just don't think I will ever get away from the NWC.  Just venting.  I think I have always been a Pio fan, foremost, but without Gaillard, they won't be as good.  I just can't wrap my interest around any other OR team.  Maybe PacU's new coach will bring something to the table.  Or maybe Bridgeland will come to LC (he was an assistant coach there at one time).

Thanks for the UP suggestion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2011, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
  Sorry, Playball, Linf already got theirs with Wiser.  They won't be due another one for awhile.  

Thanks for the kind words TMT!  haha

I don't know about Linfield, you never know whats going to happen with how kids develop after High School.  Linfield has some athletes coming up in the freshmen ranks who are going to be good with a little more experience.  Just have to give them time. And like what Hayford has been really good with, possibly some JC transfers?  Next year the conference could look totally different, too early to tell.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 16, 2011, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: playball on February 16, 2011, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
  Sorry, Playball, Linf already got theirs with Wiser.  They won't be due another one for awhile.  

Thanks for the kind words TMT!  haha

I don't know about Linfield, you never know whats going to happen with how kids develop after High School.  Linfield has some athletes coming up in the freshmen ranks who are going to be good with a little more experience.  Just have to give them time. And like what Hayford has been really good with, possibly some JC transfers?  Next year the conference could look totally different, too early to tell.

That freshman from Scappoose is a pretty good shooter and defender, isn't he?  Cory?   I don't think Linfield is finished.   Like WU, it just wasn't their year!   Weird that Whitman beat Whitworth.    Sounds like they recruited a crowd and had another hot shooting night.   Not what I predicted.   Bump in the road for the Pirates, but they'll win out.  They're a really good team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on February 16, 2011, 08:58:33 PM
Sorry, but after tracking the WW stuff on this board this year I have to do this.

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

I saw them play, and thought they were pretty good.  I hope they win the tournament.  But there have been several better teams in the NWC in recent years, most of them from Tacoma.   :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 16, 2011, 09:04:40 PM
Quote from: loggerfan1 on February 16, 2011, 08:58:33 PM
Sorry, but after tracking the WW stuff on this board this year I have to do this.

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

I saw them play, and thought they were pretty good.  I hope they win the tournament.  But there have been several better teams in the NWC in recent years, most of them from Tacoma.   :)


It's hard to judge a season by one game...  There clearly was a self-destruction that occurred  (absolutely aided by Witman, but things like missing free throws are mental, not physical iniquities)... but prior to that, Whitworth was in complete control of the game.

But, if you want to judge a season by one game, go ahead.  At Stevens Point, we played UPS twice, in back to back years, and beat 'em 100-79 and 81-63 in seasons where they averaged a bundle more.  They didn't look that special... if you just judge by those individual games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 16, 2011, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: loggerfan1 on February 16, 2011, 08:58:33 PM
Sorry, but after tracking the WW stuff on this board this year I have to do this.

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

I saw them play, and thought they were pretty good.  I hope they win the tournament.  But there have been several better teams in the NWC in recent years, most of them from Tacoma.   :)

S-O-U-R  G-R-A-P-E-S & D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L --- that's you, loggerfan!   This Whitworth team is the best the NWC has seen in years and definitely the real deal.  I hope they go far in the playoffs.     I think the bus ride did them in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 17, 2011, 11:28:18 AM
Im not so sure I can agree with you Loggerfan.  While there have been good to great teams at UPS in the past, they had their weaknesses.  Their gimmicky type press they ran was always exploited when they went east for the tourny since a press doesn't work on good players.  Ever see a press in the NBA? Point was always able to take advantage of them. 
This years Whitworth team doesn't rely on anything strange or out of the ordinary.  They just play straight up and will bloody anyones nose.  No real weaknesses besides an underdeveloped post game, and that is only because they don't need one right now with the quality they have on the perimeter.  I think they will need to expand Felix's role down low in order to advance deeper into the playoffs. 

I personally hope Whitworth does well from here out once they get in the NCAA Tourney.  But I also wouldn't mind seeing 2 NWC teams there either.  So hopefully an upset in the conference title game?  :)  Unlikely, but Whitman showed us all it was possible.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LoggerNation4040 on February 17, 2011, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: playball on February 17, 2011, 11:28:18 AM
a press doesn't work on good players

So...you're saying Whitworth didn't have good players a couple years ago when UPS ran the table?  Interesting. 

The only reason I bring this up is in response to bbaddict saying this Whitworth team is the best NWC squad in years...I gotta disagree there.  It's not me being a homer, and I DO think this Pirates team is very very good and obviously well-coached.  I just do not see them being able to match up well with 08-09 Loggers. Would Felix really be able to defend Foster on the perimeter for example?  I know they can shoot the hell out of the ball but without a Nakamura/Symes type player that's constantly attacking the teeth of the D, I think that the 08-09 Logs would have the slight edge...not to mention that the conference as a whole is undoubtedly down from where it was a couple years ago.  But hopefully it's back on the rise! 

Good luck to all tomorrow night....I'll be in P-town rooting on my Loggers.  Gotta finish strong! 

   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 17, 2011, 02:56:41 PM
Quote from: LoggerNation4040 on February 17, 2011, 11:58:35 AM
I just do not see them being able to match up well with 08-09 Loggers. Would Felix really be able to defend Foster on the perimeter for example? 

Foster was a good player don't get me wrong, however a shooter he wasn't.  He shot a combined  39-124 from 3 his junior and senior seasons.  Not much reason for Felix to have to guard him out there. 

While I'm not sure this Whitworth team has a player with the versatility of Symes, Mike Taylor is close.  He shoots well and finishes at the basket.  And with Whitworth being so guard oriented, more so than last year, the UPS press would be broken which leads to easy baskets.  The 08-09 UPS team was not as good defensively in the half court which this Whitworth team would exploit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LoggerNation4040 on February 17, 2011, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: playball on February 17, 2011, 02:56:41 PM
And with Whitworth being so guard oriented, more so than last year, the UPS press would be broken which leads to easy baskets.

The Loggers pressed considerably less that year than they had in the past...and while the Gebbers are high IQ guys and good shooters, they're not exactly lightning-quick "press busters." 

Quote from: playball on February 17, 2011, 02:56:41 PM
  The 08-09 UPS team was not as good defensively in the half court which this Whitworth team would exploit.

That is highly inaccurate. They led the conference in scoring defense (65.0ppg), were 2nd in FG defense (40.9%), and 1st in 3FG defense (28.6%). 

Agree to disagree I guess...That Logger squad would be too athletic for this year's Bucs to handle IMO.  Boy I'd love to see that match-up...maybe one day when they're all washed up they'll meet at a park or something  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 17, 2011, 04:29:46 PM
My 2 cents:

This years WW team is one of the best defensive teams I have seen in a long time.  The UPS teams with the Big 3 (Foster, Kraul, and Wiliams) etal, would not have been able to do what they did against this WW team.  And this years' Pirate team would have been able to break the UPS press and score points under their pressure.  So I think this WW team is a little bit better.  And they are not overrated, or if so, only slightly.  I think their athleticism is underrated.

But really, aren't we just splitting hairs.  Both teams were/are very good.  I don't think either team was/is good enough to go all of the way.  It takes a good portion of luck to do that and none of the past teams have had that.  It waits to be seen if WW can do that this year. 

The loss to WC may end up helping this years team, but Playball is right, the lack of an established post presence will be their undoing.  Put Montgomery on this team and I would feel different about their chances.  I also agree with Playball about hoping they do well in the tourny. 

But getting two teams in does no good as they will be matched up early and one would be eliminated as it past years.  That is a real shame.  The big 3's last year at UPS, had the two teams been split up in the bracket, we would have seen how tough the NWC is as both would have gone a couple to more rounds into the tourny.  But it is too much about money. 

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LoggerNation4040 on February 17, 2011, 05:03:50 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 17, 2011, 04:29:46 PM
Playball is right, the lack of an established post presence will be their undoing. Put Montgomery on this team and I would feel different about their chances.

Agreed.  He was a handful, that's for sure.  Two things about all of those title contenders from the Midwest that I've observed over the years is their rebounding and the ability to defend the 3-ball....which does not bode well for WW in the national tourney.  I think Taylor's ability to attack the rim and make plays will be critical for them.  Another issue will be the front court strength and physicality that WW will face out there assuming they get past whatever SCIAC cupcake they get.  Riley has always been a defensive liability for them and will no doubt be exposed against the UWSP's of the world. You can get away with him playing the 4 in the NWC, but not on the national level. 

Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 17, 2011, 04:29:46 PM
But getting two teams in does no good as they will be matched up early and one would be eliminated as it past years.  That is a real shame.  The big 3's last year at UPS, had the two teams been split up in the bracket, we would have seen how tough the NWC is as both would have gone a couple to more rounds into the tourny.  But it is too much about money. 

Shame indeed.  Also a tough break that the Logs had to face #1 St.Thomas in the Sweet 16...but oh well.  The best team finds a way to the title.  No excuses!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 17, 2011, 07:43:38 PM
That loss will probably help WW in the tournament! They haven't played a tight game all year and they did not handle it well down the stretch!
Poor guys had to ride a bus to Walla Walla! I hope they recover in time for their next game! :-*
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 17, 2011, 08:25:57 PM
'Bout time for Mr Coleman's "There is no east coast bias" post, isn't it? :) :) :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2011, 09:30:55 PM
I don't get the feeling that LN4040 has seen this Whitworth team play more than once. Taylor is just as good as getting to the rim and when necessary pulling up for a mid range jumper as Symes was. And he probably shoots better from outside...Hayford found Pecht's replacement in Symes and now Symes replacement in Taylor. You are absolutely right about Riley's defense...but why would you not think 6'7" Loofburrow could be inserted into the lineup against a bigger WIAC team??

And if we are agreeing to disagree, the two Gebbers are the best defenders Whitworth has had in a long time. I would like either of their chances against a guy like Williams, who created a lot of offense for UPS by getting to the hoop and either finishing himself or finding the open shooter.

It would be a good game for sure. I think this Whitworth team is better than the 08-09 team and

As for the east coast bias? It probably doesn't exist...it's more of a spending $$$ bias. If only our government was as cheap as the NCAA lol

Isn't this board a lot more fun when people are talking?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 18, 2011, 10:59:44 AM
Williams from UPS would KILL the Gebbers brothers. He was way too fast and athletic. Neither one would be able to stay in front of him and contain. Also, on the defensive end, Williams would eat them up too. He had great body control, change of direction at full speed and his long arms cause every guard he played against problems. Taylor and Riley are what makes this team good, not the Gebbers. You take Taylor and Riley out and you have the Gebbers as your main guys? Those two would struggle and WW would be middle of the pack at best in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2011, 11:22:43 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 17, 2011, 08:25:57 PM
'Bout time for Mr Coleman's "There is no east coast bias" post, isn't it? :) :) :)

Mr. Coleman has been voting Whitworth No. 1 since the first week of January. You tell me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 18, 2011, 11:49:21 AM
Dre:

Sorry, NO!  Williams was fast, but he only went to his right.  Wade would have slowed him way down.  Now Williams would get his points, but not 1 on 1 with the WW help defense, and he would have to work way hard to get them.  Granted the Gebbers are not the main components of the WW offense, but as I said, their strength is in the defense, and the guys providing the important defense are not the main offensive players.

Williams was quick, but the overall defensive pressure of his team is what caused turnovers and stops.  Had UPS played the way WW plays with Foster, Williams, etc., I believe they would have gone further in the playoffs.  They are/were similar teams, and as Playball has said, good teams with good ballhandlers ate up the press.

You take Williams and Foster out of the UPS mix and UPS does not win the NWC title.  For that matter, take the top two players off any team and see how they do.  
That's what makes Hayford and WW so good, the role players know and accept their roles.

Mr. Coleman, what took you so long!  We were wondering how many double digit, 20+ average point wins it would take for you to jump on the wagon!   :)  Just wondering, where do you have them now?

Talking so much about a WA team is giving me a headache!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2011, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Keandre on February 18, 2011, 10:59:44 AM
Williams from UPS would KILL the Gebbers brothers. He was way too fast and athletic. Neither one would be able to stay in front of him and contain. Also, on the defensive end, Williams would eat them up too. He had great body control, change of direction at full speed and his long arms cause every guard he played against problems. Taylor and Riley are what makes this team good, not the Gebbers. You take Taylor and Riley out and you have the Gebbers as your main guys? Those two would struggle and WW would be middle of the pack at best in the NWC.
Can we stop comparing players and teams please until after the season.  I am glad everyone has there own favorite teams and players, but no one can say for sure.  After a season is over, the facts are there.  

As for taking out both Riley and Taylor, of course Whitworth is more vulnerable.  The Gebbers have shown the ability to score.  This is one reason why Whitworth is so strong.  Riley's off night Tuesday and Felix only getting 3 FG attempts were large factors in the loss.  The biggest factor was Whitman's near perfection in the last 4 minutes.  They get respect for that.  Whitworth was the much better team for 35 minutes but as anyone knows who watches college basketball, winning on the road against a good team is never a sure thing.  

Pirates didn't start this season expecting to win every game.  The streak and ranking were exciting and impressive but not the team's goals.  Conference Champion...check.  NWC Tournament Champion...._____, Salem...._____,  D3 Champion...___.  The reality is Whitworth is on track to collect goals 2 and 3 after completing goal 1.  A great season does not have to be a perfect season.  Whitworth is having a great season, only 4 teams have 1 L in all of D3.  I EXPECT WW to remain top 4.

I think the loss Tuesday has many effects but most are psychological.  The mental strength and character of the Pirates will be challenged.  I think they are smart, tough young men that have a mentality of winning.  Saturday (PAC) could be a blowout like last years finale at LF, or it could be a stiff road challenge from a team looking for something to carry into the off season.  PAC has shown the ability to play to the level of their opponents, good and bad.  Whitworth won't have a 5 minute collapse, that I can predict confidently.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 18, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
TMT, I really understand your reasoning but answer me this. Do you think Duckworth from WM is better than Williams? I am sure you wouldn't think so, and if the Gebbers can play D so good, how come they couldn't control Duckworth who is a freshman? All I am saying is those two are role players and all they have to do is focus on D because they are not asked to score and when they do score, it isn't because they just have an uncanny ability to do so, the other 2-3 guys they have are being focused on and not them, so I would hope they can knock down open shots when they are not even being guarded. Another point, Williams was the reason that press was so good, he read the situation, played passing lanes and pressured the ball and was a steals machine and he cause turnovers that didn't count in the stat book. Yes, Williams mainly went right, but if no one can stop him from doing that, then why would he go left? He was always tops in the league in assists as well so it wasn't like he couldn't get other people envolved, I mean he made it easy for Krauel and Foster to be All-Americans and First team all region players. The pressure he would put on the defense allowed Foster to get great rebounding position and for an already great rebounder, that was huge. Plus, Williams has some DOG in him, he would find a way to get his team a win, the Gebbers can't and couldn't do that, they are not good enough, just lucky to have great players around them, not that Williams didn't but he was a great player that made everyone else better.

So, I am done comparing past teams and players because it seems to make my man nwhoops1903 not very happy lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 18, 2011, 12:42:54 PM
Oh yeah, what does the Karma thing mean? I am at -2, I am sure that is not good.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2011, 12:58:55 PM
Dre: after a certain # of posts, you get to award Karma or subtract. Its a way to thank or smite a poster.  Its anonymous unless you put it in your post that you "were the one". Fun for some, meaningless to most.

I really mean wait on the comparisons til season is over but I guess some seasons are over ;)  thx Dreb!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 18, 2011, 01:10:22 PM
Keandre, we get it.  Williams was good.  However the defense Whitworth plays is solid.  I think he would at least have a tougher time playing them than the defenses in the past. 

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 17, 2011, 09:30:55 PM

And if we are agreeing to disagree, the two Gebbers are the best defenders Whitworth has had in a long time.

Bo Gregg.   Longer, more athletic, and almost impossible to shake.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 18, 2011, 01:44:09 PM
During the stretch that Whit made their run the Gebbers were on the bench with foul trouble. They were there because Whit attacked the rim!
Williams was a great player much more athletic than the Gebbers !
WW does play very good help defense. I think their defense is what makes them exceptional!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 18, 2011, 03:37:28 PM
NWhoops, I think that was a poke at my Loggers not going to the tourney lol, I am giving you a -1 Karma hahaha.

Yes, Whitworth does play good team defense, which allows the Gebbers to play the way they do.

On another note, how do you guys feel about the Pacific coach and the job he has in front of him? I think from coming out of Boise, he didn't realize what he was getting into. He has a pretty good core of guards coming back, do you think they can win some games next season?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 18, 2011, 04:25:28 PM
They need some size in order to be anything next year.  They have a couple of good guards in Bartlett and Wester, however they will struggle in the post with the guys they have coming back.  Otherwise, they are looking at a worse season next year than they had this year.  Good coach, seems nice.  Hope the best for them
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LoggerNation4040 on February 18, 2011, 04:51:16 PM
Quote from: etule on February 18, 2011, 01:44:09 PM
WW does play very good help defense. I think their defense is what makes them exceptional!

I concur. They've always had great help D and a commitment to rebounding.  You rarely get easy buckets vs the Bucs and that's a testament to Hayford as much as I hate saying it  ;)

Quote from: playball on February 18, 2011, 04:25:28 PM
Otherwise, they are looking at a worse season next year than they had this year.

Don't think it can get much worse in the Grove than 3-20.  I think the biggest thing for that program, and more so than personnel right now, is establishing an identity.  They've never struck me as a program with a distinct identity and one that carries itself with a lot of pride.  Certainly another team in search of an identity right now is Willamette...always tough when a helluva coach like Gordie leaves the program.  Not sure what to think of what Ioane has done so far down in Salem...I think he's in a bit over his head IMO.  Hope that doesn't tick Bearcat Press off!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 18, 2011, 08:30:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2011, 11:22:43 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 17, 2011, 08:25:57 PM
'Bout time for Mr Coleman's "There is no east coast bias" post, isn't it? :) :) :)

Mr. Coleman has been voting Whitworth No. 1 since the first week of January. You tell me.

And that's what we like about you -- you recognize excellence!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 18, 2011, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: LoggerNation4040 on February 18, 2011, 04:51:16 PM
Certainly another team in search of an identity right now is Willamette...always tough when a helluva coach like Gordie leaves the program.  Not sure what to think of what Ioane has done so far down in Salem...I think he's in a bit over his head IMO.  Hope that doesn't tick Bearcat Press off!    

If I was still with the school paper, I'd probably do this: :-X

But since I'm an alum now ...

I'm just as puzzled by the Willamette's drop-off as anyone else.  Kind of lost in the hoopla surrounding Gordie's retirement was the fact that we really underachieved during his final year: that was absolutely an NWC tournament team that had no business losing to Fox and Linfield at home.  The one game where we played to our potential was against UPS in the last game of the regular season - a game I guarantee that Loggers fans remember.

There was a big senior class that year, so the cupboard was a little bare last season, save Cam Mitchell.  For that reason alone, I'm okay with giving Kip some time to rebuild.  I think he's trying to create an identity as an up-tempo, press, transition style team (a huge break from the motion offense Gordie ran), and because of that too, I'm willing to give him a chance to recruit players suited for his own system.

That being said, there is one change he needs to make.  Right now, a couple of really key players on the team (Terrell Malley and Cody Pastorino come to mind immediately) are football players who don't really get into basketball shape until halfway through the season.  If they were reserves, that would be one thing, but they're starters.  We need more basketball players.

My $0.02.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2011, 01:27:05 AM
Thanks wc11 for the clip  :'(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dP284z_4rI

Last play of the Whit v Whit game never had a chance...and Castle wasn't lying, the place was full

Tonight's results

Pac BEATS Whitman 59-55 (send your fellow Oregonians a thank you card, trymeteam)
GF beats linfield 76-61
PLU hangs on to beat Willamette 90-87
LC struggles with UPS but nips em in OT 89-85
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 19, 2011, 01:47:10 AM
Wow, Rat!  Why did they give that ball to him?   What about Riley or Taylor? or one of the Gebbers?  Were they fouled out?  (I didn't watch the game because I'm too spoiled by watching it free on WU's network.  Is WU the only team in the conference who shows the games for free?)

You've gotta love NWC basketball --  Whitman beats Whitworth on Tuesday and then loses to Pacific on Friday. 

LoggerNation4040:  Leave our (WU) coach alone.  There hasn't been enough time to transition from a system that's been in place for 20 years.  And, it wasn't just Gordie's last year that WU's success was dwindling.   I'd say the last 2-3 years he was there they weren't having the success we were all used to.

Really thought the Bearcats were going to win tonight.  What happened to our announcer?  Had to listen to the PLU guy.  He wasn't bad, but it was biased, especially at the end when it was really close.

So . . . Bearcats -- make  your free throws & quit turning the ball over!!

And BCP -- Malley was injured at the beginning of basketball season.   Yes, it was a football injury.   I think we're guard heavy and need some big huge post players to push people around like the other teams do!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 18, 2011, 11:49:21 AM

Mr. Coleman, what took you so long!  We were wondering how many double digit, 20+ average point wins it would take for you to jump on the wagon!

It took 10. Remember I've been voting for them No. 1 for seven weeks. Hoopsville watchers already know this, of course.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2011, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 18, 2011, 11:49:21 AM

Mr. Coleman, what took you so long!  We were wondering how many double digit, 20+ average point wins it would take for you to jump on the wagon!

It took 10. Remember I've been voting for them No. 1 for seven weeks. Hoopsville watchers already know this, of course.
And what's the odds they will remain in your top 4 assuming they win tonight Pirate style (20+)?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2011, 12:01:03 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 19, 2011, 01:27:05 AM
Tonight's results

Pac BEATS Whitman 59-55 (send your fellow Oregonians a thank you card, trymeteam)
GF beats linfield 76-61
PLU hangs on to beat Willamette 90-87
LC struggles with UPS but nips em in OT 89-85

I smell some parity.  Whitman blows all the good from Tuesday and their chance at getting some votes btw with the loss Friday.  It was a fluke win but now it's even more flukier?!   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2011, 12:08:32 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2011, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 18, 2011, 11:49:21 AM

Mr. Coleman, what took you so long!  We were wondering how many double digit, 20+ average point wins it would take for you to jump on the wagon!

It took 10. Remember I've been voting for them No. 1 for seven weeks. Hoopsville watchers already know this, of course.
And what's the odds they will remain in your top 4 assuming they win tonight Pirate style (20+)?

100%
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 19, 2011, 12:14:57 PM
You can't outfox a fox!  Er, can you?  I got to see the Pac-WC game last night, and a couple of things were real evident.  I think Cleary is going to be a very good coach in this league.  Lowry left the cabinet bare when he left (I think Bailey and a few freshman are the only new faces.  Sorry, but that ain't much).  PacU has no depth and not a whole lot of talent, and their record shows that.  What I really liked about last night's game and the game against LC was that Cleary was willing to scrap his early season style to do what it took to make his team a little more successful.  They slowed down the pace to a crawl, gave their core players a chance to stay on the floor more, and got a split against two of the top three teams in the league.  I thought Bridgeland was outcoached last night, and that is a compliment to Cleary, not a knock on B.  And he gave Gaillard a real battle.

I have never been much of a Gordie fan although he has had good success at Wil.  Gordie ran a system no matter what his personnel.  Gaillard seems to match his offense around his players.  When he had the bigs, he went inside.  When bigs got real hard to recruit and the league focused on the press (thanks to Bridgeland and UPS), he went with more guards.  I like an adaptive coach, and I see some of that in Cleary.  I don't think he is over his head, I think he has nothing to work with and bandaged a win last night.  If he can recruit, I may become a PacU fan, especially with Gaillard gone (me and NWCer).

I have been a Wil and Ione fan all season, and I think Ione could be another good one in this league.  Wil is a good school, and if Ione can recruit too, they will be an upper tier team in the near future.

New coaches at Pac and Wil, Gaillard gone and another at LC, OR teams could be on the upswing in a few years with some fresh new faces that are eager and capable of winning.

You are the man, Mr. Coleman!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2011, 12:29:11 PM
bbaddict,
looks like option 1-3 were defended on that last play. It was either ran incorrectly or just a poor set. Couldn't tell you which. As for the video streaming. Whitworth has been doing it for awhile now, free, football and basketball. It started back in 06 I believe for football (it's always been free) and I think they tinkered with it that bball season and have been pretty much full go every season since. As far as I knew Whitworth was the first NWC program to stream both sports for free.

I'd be surprised if Whitworth fell past #3. Pat's seen them in Vegas so maybe he can comment. Augustana's record is not as impressive as a 1 loss team from the CCIW would have been in years past. The conference is a little down. Williams lost to Amherst, who Middlebury beat, but Middlebury lost to Williams...no way to evaluate 4, 1-loss teams without seeing them all play. Which nobody (other than maybe Pat) has done.

Who cares though, Whitworth will get sent all the way across the country to play a top 10 team, who is playing 3 hours away from their own campus. And then if they win they'll be matched up with a top 3 team playing on their home court...I blame the SCIAC for not being good enough and only having 1 tournament worthy team every year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 19, 2011, 04:46:35 PM
TMT +K to you for being encouraging.  It's been a tough year for the Bearcat BBX, but I'm looking towards the long term!

Rat -- don't give up so soon!   Whitworth could host unless someone screwed up on the paperwork or something!!   First, they have to win the AQ spot for the NWC and that means the 4 team playoff.   There's no way we get two teams into the tournament, so they just better win & win big.    Should be easy to do in the Field House.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2011, 06:06:09 PM
Oh, Whitworth will host...just not as many rounds as they deserve to.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2011, 11:20:19 PM
Whitworth tips against Pacific in conference closeout game.  Pacific FINALLY wins a close game after going 1-10 in games decided by less than 7 points.  I expect a good game and a Whitworth victory.  Looking forward to next weekend in Spokane.  

LC can clinch the 1st round home game with a win over Willamette tonight.  If they lose, both teams finish 11-5 in conf. and split home and away then Whitman wins it with the victory Tuesday giving them the #2 tiebreaker nod.  Whitman's loss last night cost them huge.  I don't see LC losing tonight but you know Willamette will make it interesting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2011, 01:19:59 AM
Tourney is set

1. Whitworth
2. Whitman
3. Lewis and Clark
4. PLU

10 more posts...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 20, 2011, 01:26:23 AM
 :o

Boom goes the dynamite ... on L&C's chance to host a playoff game.

What a way for Robbie Kunke to finish his career: almost a triple-double with 11 points, 10 boards, and 8 assists!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 20, 2011, 01:27:48 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 20, 2011, 01:19:59 AM
Tourney is set

1. Whitworth
2. Whitman
3. Lewis and Clark
4. PLU

10 more posts...

So, the bummer about WU winning over L&C is that all the playoff games are in Washington this week.   Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they won so we could be 2nd from the bottom of the NWC instead of the total bottom, but . . .

So, Rat, would Whitworth rather face Whitman or L&C in the 2nd round, because I don't think PLU has enough stuff to win in the Field House??

BTW, nwhoops, if I was a betting man, which I'm not, I sure wouldn't ask for your advice. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2011, 01:54:30 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 20, 2011, 01:27:48 AM
BTW, nwhoops, if I was a betting man, which I'm not, I sure wouldn't ask for your advice. ;D
If only I would stop taking my advice.  I am down $'s for sure this year.  ;) Although, I am 24-1 on Whitworth this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 20, 2011, 02:31:16 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2011, 01:54:30 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 20, 2011, 01:27:48 AM
BTW, nwhoops, if I was a betting man, which I'm not, I sure wouldn't ask for your advice. ;D
If only I would stop taking my advice.  I am down $'s for sure this year.  ;) Although, I am 24-1 on Whitworth this year.

Yeah, and I don't think anyone saw that one coming . . . except maybe, Bridgeland.    The coach at WU said he was in the stands at the WU game tonight.  Scouting L&C, no doubt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2011, 11:26:42 AM
The politically correct answer is that Whitworth doesn't care who they play...

I would bet the players want to beat the hell out of Whitman after the Missionaries gave them a loss...

If it were me, I'd rather play the team who will have bused for over 10 hours the last 2 days, haven't slept in their own beds for awhile, and just got done with a track meet in Walla Walla. Not to mention they've struggled since starting off the second half of the NWC shedule with a loss to Whitworth. So LC...of course I'd love to see them beat the hell out of Whitman too!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 20, 2011, 03:37:51 PM
I would also rather play LC if I were Whitworth.  Besides being on the road for so long and not sleeping in their own beds like Rat said, I also think that LC's style of play stands no chance of winning against Whitworth.  If you look at both teams player by player, WW has the advantage at every position.  LC relies a lot on the three as more than half of their shots are 3's.  I think this is where the game will be won or lost for either side.

I would defend LC this way...
Edwards: I would have a rotation of guards on Edwards all game who were just focused on shutting him down.  With Edwards, you have to be on your A game defensively since he can do both shoot and drive quite well.  Very Athletic.  Don't let him get to the free throw line and get his feel going.  Will most likely score his points, but you have to make it hard for him.  He WILL FORCE shots.

PJ Taylor:  How many Taylors are in this league?!  Can't let him get shots off as he has shown that he can make multiple threes in a game.  Be in him on the catch with heavy pressure.  When he drives, he looks to pass off to a cutter to the hoop or a spot up guy.  Not that great of a finisher.  Face guard him with one of the Gebbers.

Perconti:  Has really come into his own in the conference season.  A wild card.  Looks to spot up more than anything but isn't terrible off the dribble. Same as wells, play these two straight up and be ready for anything.

Meeuwson:  Nice kid to almost a default.  Can and will shoot the three however not on a consistent basis.  Tough kid.  Felix on him obviously.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 20, 2011, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 19, 2011, 06:06:09 PM
Oh, Whitworth will host...just not as many rounds as they deserve to.

It might be a stretch... but there's potentially a similar "perfect storm" situation like there was in 03-04...

Should Stevens Point get to the Sweet 16, their women are actually having a better season, so likely would get the nod in terms of hosting the sectional.  That means that they'd have to travel... and it would just depend on who else is still in.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2011, 06:48:26 PM
I don't see LC winning Thursday. Winning a road game in Eastern WA is a thing of the past. I suspect Whitworth dispatches PLU Spokane style and prepares a few sets designed to stop a momentum run aka A Bridgeland Pressure Cooker.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2011, 07:20:54 PM
Whitman's success was predicated on forcing the other team into hurried (bad) shots and getting turnovers. If any team is built to handle it (other than Whitworth) it would be LC, a very guard oriented team. playball is right about LC living by the three, but if than can get some easy buckets under the hoop in transition, and then when the numbers aren't there, hold up and run their sets, they could beat Whitman.

But I think I'd have to agree with nwhoops, my $ is on Whitman. Which is apparently, now, a loud, difficult place to play...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2011, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 20, 2011, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 19, 2011, 06:06:09 PM
Oh, Whitworth will host...just not as many rounds as they deserve to.

It might be a stretch... but there's potentially a similar "perfect storm" situation like there was in 03-04...

Should Stevens Point get to the Sweet 16, their women are actually having a better season, so likely would get the nod in terms of hosting the sectional.  That means that they'd have to travel... and it would just depend on who else is still in.


-
I would love Whitworth to host the Sweet 16 sectional, as I have said previously I would also love Pirates to play W-Stevens Point in the final four.  Bringing the winner of the WIAC/MIAC pod would make for a great game in Spokane.  UT Dallas and maybe St Norbert to complete the 4.  Great pod.  :)  Long odds.  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 20, 2011, 08:06:24 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 20, 2011, 07:20:54 PM
playball is right about LC living by the three, but if than can get some easy buckets under the hoop in transition, and then when the numbers aren't there, hold up and run their sets, they could beat Whitman.

But I think I'd have to agree with nwhoops, my $ is on Whitman. Which is apparently, now, a loud, difficult place to play...

An important corollary to living by the three is dying by the three.  L&C shot 11-42 on three pointers against Willamette on Saturday.  I still can't wrap my head around that statistic.  I also can't wrap my head around the fact that L&C was +16 in turnovers and lost.

And Whitman being a loud, difficult place to play ...


Head exploded.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 20, 2011, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 20, 2011, 06:48:26 PM
I don't see LC winning Thursday. Winning a road game in Eastern WA is a thing of the past. I suspect Whitworth dispatches PLU Spokane style and prepares a few sets designed to stop a momentum run aka A Bridgeland Pressure Cooker.

Didn't PLU win at Whitman earlier in the season?

and BCP, I'm with you about "loud" at Whitman . . . when I've been there, those grandmas and grandpas didn't make much noise.   Usually their house is pretty empty and they get really quiet if a team gets ahead.   Not that WU had that chance recently . . .   Well, that's over & I don't wanna think about it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2011, 01:53:41 PM
Whitman is surprisingly loud now.  They pack that little gym and with it being so closed off from everything the noise gets trapped.  Fun place to play now....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LoggerNation4040 on February 21, 2011, 05:01:53 PM
Brutal loss for the Logs on Friday night.  Second time this season they've blown a sizable lead in the 2nd half to LC.  Lunt played small-ball with Gittens, Yarbro, and Borboa combining for only 16 minutes.  The game plan worked like a charm but the Loggers' inexperience caught up with them a bit in the end and PJ Taylor made some big plays for the Pios. Nothin like an OT loss to toughen the skin of those youngsters though (I'm searching for a bright side!)

Made my way down to Newberg to catch the Logs get a win Saturday...always nice to end the season on a positive note...not to mention spoiling a senior night   :D

Can't believe LC didn't show up for their game at Willamette...probably cost them a shot at Whitworth. 

     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 21, 2011, 08:45:27 PM
LC losing was not all that big of an upset to me.  After playing UPS blow for blow on Friday, I thought they might be tired on Saturday, and that's the way they looked.  Meeuwson and Perconti going 3 for 17 from the 3 really hurt them, as well as turnovers at the end of the game.  Live by the 3, die by the 3.  It caught up with them Saturday.

They lost another player, McCollough, and that kills them when they play the teams with decent to good big men.  When Meeuswon comes out of the game, Perconti (6'4") has to guard the big man on the other team, and this has not gone well recently.

That shouldn't have a impact on Thursday (size-wise), but their lack of depth will do them in.  I can't see Whitman not being ready to get this win, but I can also see LC lighting up the hoops.  Toss up for me right now, but leaning toward WC.

Its official, Gaillard out, Foreman in!

http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/releases/20110221a71s68

I think Bridgeland wrote this press release! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 21, 2011, 10:08:10 PM
How long has McCollough been out?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 21, 2011, 11:20:01 PM
Whitworth guys drop to #2. Fall below Williams and stay ahead of Middlebury
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 21, 2011, 11:24:11 PM
Oh and my wife just informed me that Justin Beiber cut his hair...NOOOOOOOO!

BP consider my head exploded as well
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 21, 2011, 11:32:25 PM
Rat:

I think last weekends games were his last games attended.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2011, 12:48:10 AM
McCullough (Sp?) was a decent big guy for LC.  Actually, he was their only true big guy since Meeuwson (Sp?) likes to play outside-in.  This may or may not hurt their chances at WC.  Profound I know!   It could really open up the middle for David Micheals.  But then again it could force Whitman to play smaller.  Either way, I don't see LC winning this game, but I hope for a close one!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pio20 on February 22, 2011, 03:25:18 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/collegebasketball/index.ssf/2011/02/bob_gaillard_longtime_lewis_cl.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 22, 2011, 12:14:18 PM
How does everyone feel LC will do with a new head coach? Even though the guy has been there for 9 seasons with th ecurrent head coach, it is a different story when you are the head guy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 22, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
I got LC over Whitman and Whitworth over PLU.

By the way, how do two teams fighting for home court, which makes a huge difference for both, lose to the 2 worse teams in the league?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2011, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 22, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
I got LC over Whitman and Whitworth over PLU.

By the way, how do two teams fighting for home court, which makes a huge difference for both, lose to the 2 worse teams in the league?

Parity.  The league is very close in ways of talent this year (save for Whitworth). Anyone could beat anyone
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 22, 2011, 03:31:11 PM
Dre:

LC won't do as well under the new coach.

I would like to go with LC over WC but I can't, but winning one for the old guy might come into play.  And no opinion on the other game. :)

Two different issues.  WC coming off a huge high beating #1 in the country, traveling to the furthest gym in the conference, a dimly lit one at that, and playing the worst team in the league looking at every game for some respect.  Although I would have never predicted it, it did have upset written all over it.

LC plays a tough, overtime game the night before, appears to be wearing down late in the season and coast through games, and loses another rotation player.  Wil was playing their last game of the season, while LC knew they had at least one more.  More ingredients for an upset.

You would think the stakes would motivate WC and LC to get the wins they needed, but it just doesn't work that way.  It will be an interesting game.  Can't wait to hear it.    

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 22, 2011, 04:26:50 PM
TMT, I agree with you on all of those points, especially LC struggling with new coach.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2011, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 22, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
I got LC over Whitman and Whitworth over PLU.

By the way, how do two teams fighting for home court, which makes a huge difference for both, lose to the 2 worse teams in the league?

Because Keandre, on any day or night, any team in the NWC can beat another one.  That's why we play the game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 22, 2011, 07:11:38 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 22, 2011, 04:26:50 PM
TMT, I agree with you on all of those points, especially LC struggling with new coach.

Well said Dre!  Someone give him a +1.  You can even take one of mine away!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2011, 10:54:52 PM
I'll give you both +1 cuz I can!   I'm going with L&C to beat Whitman and Whitworth over PLU.    The first because nwhoops is going with Whitman, the second, well. . .do I have to explain that one?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2011, 10:32:55 AM
In other head exploding news...Cal Tech won a SCIAC game last night, beating Oxy. The box score is incredible just not in a really good way.

For tomorrow
Whitworth beats PLU
LC over Whitman
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 23, 2011, 12:00:35 PM
Rat:

Ist conference win for the Beavers in 310 games!

http://www.thesciac.org/sports/mbkb/2010-11/news/caltech_conf_win


Thanks, bba!   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 23, 2011, 12:08:58 PM
Look at the box score for that game.  Only 12 made FG's!  AND THEY WON!!!  Unbelievable!  Just reinforces that one team can beat any other on any given night. 

How do you guys think the top SCIAC teams would do in the NWC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2011, 03:15:57 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 23, 2011, 10:32:55 AM
In other head exploding news...Cal Tech won a SCIAC game last night, beating Oxy. The box score is incredible just not in a really good way.

For tomorrow
Whitworth beats PLU
LC over Whitman

Did that seem like a really low score for a men's basketball game?  46-45   And, funny thing, on ESPN they were showing this story and the announcer was talking about how Cal Tech made a game winning free throw, but the video showed a missed free throw.  Funny, huh?

So, Rat we agree on Thursday night!   Are you just hoping L&C will beat Whitman?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2011, 03:59:38 PM
Final Regional Rankings are out before Selection Sunday: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2011, 05:11:02 PM
bbaddict,

No, LC is who I'd put money on (well, assuming Whitman would be a couple point favorite at home and I'd have a greater earning potential per $ put on LC)...but I really think that LC is plenty talented to NOT turn the ball over, force a few themselves, and control the pace of the game or at least keep Whitman from forcing LC to rush their offensive sets.

I think that's why Whitman has been successful. Yes, they are finally as talented as most of the teams in the conference. But they win when the opposing team's guards can't handle the pressure and run their own offense in the face of Whitman's D. Whitman's defense forces you to play a brand of basketball that most teams (especially this year) were not comfortable with. I think Taylor and the rest of the pios are talented enough and coached well enough that they can run their offense regardless of what Whitman is trying to do on D.

Each team has won a game in this "series"...each time the winning team has been +6-9 in turnovers and because of it the winning team has taken around 100 shots while the loser has only gotten 80-90. In the game LC won it looks like they played a little more "inside-out" than normal. I think they need to get inside the paint to start the game and then work the ball out to the perimeter...but Gaillard has been doing this forever so I don't doubt he'll have a great gameplan (which will undoubtedly prove me really wrong)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't affect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2011, 09:56:16 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't effect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

Yeah, since Whitworth has 2 Mike Taylors and GFU has one, it's best to identify them by # and team, I think.   Will have to think about this nwhoops.  What a hard choice!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 23, 2011, 09:59:17 PM
Anybody getting stats for the LC - WC game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 10:01:32 PM
Tomorrow's game TMT?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 23, 2011, 10:03:56 PM
Yeah, maybe I should wait until then.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 23, 2011, 11:48:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't effect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

When do the actual teams come out?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 24, 2011, 12:42:14 AM
1. Taylor WW
2. Wiser
3. Riley
4. Edwards
5. Shaw
6. Taylor LC
7. Duckworth
8. Shelton
9. Anglin
10. Mounts
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2011, 12:43:40 AM
Quote from: playball on February 23, 2011, 11:48:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't effect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

When do the actual teams come out?
I am guessing next week.  Not in the bylaws by my reading when they need to be collected or released by.  Last year was Feb 25th right after the conf. tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 24, 2011, 01:11:04 PM
1. Taylor WW
2. Wiser
3. Edwards lc
4. Shelton
5. Shaw
6. Riley
7. MacTaggert
8. Mounts
9. Anglin
10. Duckworth
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 24, 2011, 04:42:53 PM
All NWC Playoff games going on as scheduled tonight, despite the weather.

And the All-NWC team will be released tomorrow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2011, 04:46:38 PM
Thanks Steve. You run a great NWC website and of course, your Class A work in North Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 24, 2011, 05:41:50 PM
I'm not going to vote, but the two lists so far do not reflect the reality of how well some players for Whitworth play in non-scoring roles.   It looks like the two lists are just the top scorers for each of the teams in the league.  Let's face reality,  someone has to score points, but who helps you win is what makes you a player.  If Loofburrow was on Linfield instead of WW and was allowed  to roam outside and shoot and not run an offense and set others up, he'd average 30.  Felix--besides being an academic all-american, completely shutdown Wiser both games. Not even a contest. Wiser guarded Riley in the two games against WW.  Wiser scored a total of 14 in the two games. Riley had 31.   In addition, when teams focus too much on the perimeter against Whitworth Felix has more than stepped up and made them pay. Clay Gebbers completely shuts down the opposing team's best perimeter player every game and made teams pay for leaving him open. Wade Gebbers completely shuts down the other team's point guards and is a threat to score at any time.  I have not seen one player on any team outplay their counterpart on Whitworth over both games of the series all year.  I know that other players from the other teams could join Whitworth and their roles would change and they could contribute, but I have not seen one player in the league, playing the way they play for their teams, that could crack the top 6 at Whitworth.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 24, 2011, 07:14:48 PM
Buc, that is because they are system players. The Gebbers kid can show his case next season without the guys who are there now. I would disagree with no one would crack the top 6. Kaleb Shelton would crack the top 6 easily. He scores for UPS cause he has too, if he didn't, he could get you 5 steals a game and 15-20 rebounds a game cause he is the hardest worker on the floor at all times, he is very strong and competes at a high level. He wills UPS to victories and will lead them to the top next year. Also, Wiser crack the top 6, just imagine if he had annotate like Riley and a guard like Taylor along side him, he would dominate too. It's all about the fit, but I do see your thoughts, good luck to all teams tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2011, 07:31:11 PM
Hey Buc, help us out and send a ballot by PM.  Nothing says you can't put 6 Pirates on your ballot.  All your points are valid, but there are LOTS of NWC games the Pirates didn't play in and those count.

Playball, Rat, Bearcat, etc...who else needs to throw a ballot?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 07:45:17 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 23, 2011, 09:59:17 PM
Anybody getting stats for the LC - WC game?

I think there's free video or it says that on the NWC site.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2011, 07:53:29 PM
With Flegel and the NWC being so on top of their own ballots I feel like I'm rushing this a little but here goes.

1. Taylor (Whit) best player in the conference and he happens to be on the best team, easy choice

2. Wiser        Can't knock him just because Linfield is bad. Would like to see him with Whitworth because
                    he is a little more athletic than Felix and more polished (remember Felix as a freshman? He's
                     come along way)

3. Riley         People don't give him enough credit for being able to create...I want him in my starting 5

4. Loofburrow    Statistically he doesn't look great but he would be the leading scorer on any other team
                          He didn't go DI initially for no reason

5. Anglin       The one guy who could bring something different to Whitworth and make them even scarier

6. Edwards    This one is based purely on scoring and shooting %'s

7. Shelton      Would win the mr. hustle award if it existed...and he's talented

8. C. Gebbers   Best defensive guard in the conference, oh and he can get buckets when Whitworth
                       needs him to

9. Freidt       Yeah, I put 5 Pirates on this list, and I left off Mounts...somebody was going to score 20
                     points per game (for Wilammette), doesn't mean he should be top 10. Freidt is the best defensive big man in the conference and has the second highest FG % in the conference. Meaning he scores when he gets the ball...Whitworth has yet to be in a game where they NEEDED to go to him more than 10 times.

10. Shaw         I'm not giving Whitman guys as much credit due to the "system" they run (inflation). But they deserve a player and IMO Shaw is the best overall player on their team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2011, 07:59:57 PM
If playball doesn't give POY to Wiser I'm gonna be a little disappointed...seriously...the Mrs. tells me confidence is sexy  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 08:13:35 PM
Here's my list:

1. KC Wiser, LIN
2. Mike Taylor (Brewster), Whitworth
3. Taylor Mounts, Willamette
4. David Riley, Whitworth
5. Kelly Edwards, L&C
6. Brandon Shaw, Whitman
7. Stephen Wisely, GFU
8. Carson Bartlett, Pacific
9. Kaleb Shelton, UPS
10. Robbie Kunke, Willamette

No explanations.  I could work with this group.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2011, 08:16:23 PM
1. Taylor (Whit)
2. Wiser
3. Riley  
4. Edwards
5. Anglin      
6. Shelton  
7. Shaw    
8. Loofburrow
9. Freidt
10. Mounts

If we went to 13. I would have 2x Gebbers.  :D  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't affect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

You voters DO realize that Whitworth has 2 Mike Taylors.  Does that mean the Taylor-Whitworth votes will not be counted?     ;D  Guess that will make Wiser POY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2011, 08:34:04 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't affect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

You voters DO realize that Whitworth has 2 Mike Taylors.  Does that mean the Taylor-Whitworth votes will not be counted?     ;D  Guess that will make Wiser POY.
Nice try!!   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2011, 08:35:09 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't affect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

You voters DO realize that Whitworth has 2 Mike Taylors.  Does that mean the Taylor-Whitworth votes will not be counted?     ;D  Guess that will make Wiser POY.

With our Whitworth educations we are more than qualified (and intelligent enough) to make the distinction...I wouldn't expect you guys to understand  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 09:07:58 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 24, 2011, 08:35:09 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't affect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

You voters DO realize that Whitworth has 2 Mike Taylors.  Does that mean the Taylor-Whitworth votes will not be counted?     ;D  Guess that will make Wiser POY.

With our Whitworth educations we are more than qualified (and intelligent enough) to make the distinction...I wouldn't expect you guys to understand  :P

Hey, I'm NOT the one who said "undefined mike taylors will not be counted" -- I'm just pointing it out.   (so, basically, you're planning to ignore your own rules?) And don't get OxyBob started on the "intelligence" discussion regarding Whitworth basketball transfers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2011, 09:38:55 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 09:07:58 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 24, 2011, 08:35:09 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
Well it is time for all conference nominations. I want the posters to name their top 10 players IN ORDER.  Top vote getter will be the pollsters POTY. It would be great to have 10 submissions by 7pm tomorrow. Conf tourney shouldn't affect voting. I will tabulate and post what I have gotten Friday. You can post your picks and or pm me if you want anonymity.

I think we will have 1st 2nd and 3rd teams filled if we can get 10 voters. Do not consider position. Best 10 guys. Hanging chads and undefined mike taylors will not be counted.

You voters DO realize that Whitworth has 2 Mike Taylors.  Does that mean the Taylor-Whitworth votes will not be counted?     ;D  Guess that will make Wiser POY.

With our Whitworth educations we are more than qualified (and intelligent enough) to make the distinction...I wouldn't expect you guys to understand  :P

Hey, I'm NOT the one who said "undefined mike taylors will not be counted" -- I'm just pointing it out.   (so, basically, you're planning to ignore your own rules?) And don't get OxyBob started on the "intelligence" discussion regarding Whitworth basketball transfers.

With any good liberal arts education you take plenty of English/Language courses along with your chosen field of study. nwhoops was simply utilizing a literary tool to poke fun at our conference's unique situation. Aw, who am I kidding, I hate the English language...I don't know what I'm talking about
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2011, 09:48:15 PM
BB you are joking?  This ain't Gore v Bush. :)

I hope to see 4-5 more lists!  Gosh now I know how Ypsi feels...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 24, 2011, 09:49:13 PM
I'll make a list, but won't include myself.
1.Mike Taylor ( the one married to Taylor Taylor)   ;D
2.Kelly Edwards.  very athletic, one of the tougher match ups in the league.
3. David Riley.  Never really seen him create on his own, but hes a great shooter.
4. Taylor Mounts.  Does a lot for his team, talented.
5. Brandon Shaw.  Finished second in league, they need a guy near the top.
6. LeMar Anglin.  Tough kid, good post game.
7. Kyle Mactaggart(sp?).  Good shooter, creates well for his playoff team.  Makes them go.
8.Shelton.  Would be higher, but needs to work on his shot instead of just being an undersized post guy that gets to the line A LOT.  A hustle guy.
9. Stephen Wisely.  Should have gotten more shots this year.  Good handle and also court savvy.
10. PJ Taylor.  Court spacer for LC.  Great shooter.

I can't lie, I also believe all these Mike Taylor votes should NOT be counted... no particular reason why...   ;)

And Rat, tell the wife hi for me   :-*     ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2011, 10:10:46 PM
I'm tired of this disrespect!  I vote for the Michael Taylor with 36 points and 26 rebounds on the season for POY!! :o ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 24, 2011, 10:14:02 PM
1.  Taylor
2.  Riley
3.  Friedt
4.  C. Gebbers
5.  W. Gebbers
6.  Loofburrow
7.  Edwards
8.  Mounts
9.  Shaw
10. Duckworth

As for Dre's comments about Shelton and Wiser cracking WW's lineup.  Do you think Shelton could play on WW's perimeter?  No. Do you think he would control the inside as well as Friedt--not even close.  Could he come off the bench and dominate the inside and outside like Loofburrow?  No.  He'd get more minutes than WW's #7, but he'd still be #7.

As for Wiser, if he adapted to playing his role at WW he'd really help them. However, remember that last year Loofburrow was 9th in minutes played for WW.   From the two games I saw, he would not have helped Whitworth the way he played.
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on February 24, 2011, 10:45:52 PM
o-v-e-r-r-a-t-e-d!   

PLU 32, WW 28. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2011, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: playball on February 24, 2011, 09:49:13 PM
I'll make a list, but won't include myself.
1.Mike Taylor ( the one married to Taylor Taylor)   ;D
2.Kelly Edwards.  very athletic, one of the tougher match ups in the league.
3. David Riley.  Never really seen him create on his own, but hes a great shooter.
4. Taylor Mounts.  Does a lot for his team, talented.
5. Brandon Shaw.  Finished second in league, they need a guy near the top.
6. LeMar Anglin.  Tough kid, good post game.
7. Kyle Mactaggart(sp?).  Good shooter, creates well for his playoff team.  Makes them go.
8.Shelton.  Would be higher, but needs to work on his shot instead of just being an undersized post guy that gets to the line A LOT.  A hustle guy.
9. Stephen Wisely.  Should have gotten more shots this year.  Good handle and also court savvy.
10. PJ Taylor.  Court spacer for LC.  Great shooter.

I can't lie, I also believe all these Mike Taylor votes should NOT be counted... no particular reason why...   ;)

And Rat, tell the wife hi for me   :-*     ;D

+K  for being a classy guy & also for agreeing with me on the Taylor count.   Of course, I'm joking, evidenced by the cheesy grin when I made the comment.

Can't believe I forgot McTaggert -- he's always been especially good against WU!  Well, you can't pick everyone!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2011, 11:47:09 PM
Looks like logger fans are still trying to figure out what to do now that they don't have basketball to watch...I'd suggest women's swimming but they aren't the best in the conference anymore either.

The Eastern Washington showdown, this Saturday, 7pm in Spokane. Should be a good one, I hope Whitworth doesn't go the final 9 minutes without a FG again...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 24, 2011, 11:59:03 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 24, 2011, 10:14:02 PM
1.  Taylor
2.  Riley
3.  Friedt
4.  C. Gebbers
5.  W. Gebbers
6.  Loofburrow
7.  Edwards
8.  Mounts
9.  Shaw
10. Duckworth

As for Dre's comments about Shelton and Wiser cracking WW's lineup.  Do you think Shelton could play on WW's perimeter?  No. Do you think he would control the inside as well as Friedt--not even close.  Could he come off the bench and dominate the inside and outside like Loofburrow?  No.  He'd get more minutes than WW's #7, but he'd still be #7.

As for Wiser, if he adapted to playing his role at WW he'd really help them. However, remember that last year Loofburrow was 9th in minutes played for WW.   From the two games I saw, he would not have helped Whitworth the way he played.
 

Nice work with the Whitworth guys up front, screws up the idea of these lists.  I don't quite get what you are saying with the whole Loofburrow example either.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 25, 2011, 12:00:10 AM
Watched the Whitworth-PLU game via video. Great game, except towards the end when PLU could not find the inside of the rim. Good announcing and picture as well. Whitworth is strong and withstood the pressure. Very mature team. I liked the way both teams were always pushing the ball downcourt. Looking forward to the Saturday matchup with Whitworth. Good luck to both programs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2011, 12:00:54 AM
The LC v. Whitman box score is mind bottling...

LC had a 13 point lead at one point AND held Whitman without a FG for the last 3 and a half minutes...but only shot around 30% for the game

LC was +12 on turnover margin...but was outrebounded 51-31

LC hits 90% of their FT's, gets 37 points from Wells and 26 from Kelly...but loses by 3

Who'd a thunk?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2011, 02:12:51 AM
Quote from: playball on February 24, 2011, 11:59:03 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 24, 2011, 10:14:02 PM
1.  Taylor
2.  Riley
3.  Friedt
4.  C. Gebbers
5.  W. Gebbers
6.  Loofburrow
7.  Edwards
8.  Mounts
9.  Shaw
10. Duckworth

As for Dre's comments about Shelton and Wiser cracking WW's lineup.  Do you think Shelton could play on WW's perimeter?  No. Do you think he would control the inside as well as Friedt--not even close.  Could he come off the bench and dominate the inside and outside like Loofburrow?  No.  He'd get more minutes than WW's #7, but he'd still be #7.

As for Wiser, if he adapted to playing his role at WW he'd really help them. However, remember that last year Loofburrow was 9th in minutes played for WW.   From the two games I saw, he would not have helped Whitworth the way he played.
 

Nice work with the Whitworth guys up front, screws up the idea of these lists.  I don't quite get what you are saying with the whole Loofburrow example either.

The point is that Loofburrow did not get off the bench last year because he didn't play within the system and didn't do the things WW needed from him to win so he sat.  Unless Wiser adapted to the WW system, he'd sit too and I didn't see Wiser do the things Hayford expects of his big guys and he's not quick enough to play on the perimeter for WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2011, 08:06:31 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2011, 12:00:54 AM
The LC v. Whitman box score is mind bottling...

LC had a 13 point lead at one point AND held Whitman without a FG for the last 3 and a half minutes...but only shot around 30% for the game

LC was +12 on turnover margin...but was outrebounded 51-31

LC hits 90% of their FT's, gets 37 points from Wells and 26 from Kelly...but loses by 3

Who'd a thunk?
Chazz Michael Michaels woulda fo sho.

Looks like The NW Whitbowl has returned for an encore performance Sat.  Go Pirates!

Pirates play well in the last 5 minutes and repel a great effort from PLU.  Win by 11, 74-63.  PLU showed up determined and played harder than WW for most of the game.  Problem is they couldn't pull away from Pirates as the Pirates played an uninspiring first half.  2nd half they got the ball inside and Freidt delivered some FG's.  The whole team played better defensively and was perfect from the stripe over the last few minutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2011, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: steveflegel on February 24, 2011, 04:42:53 PM
All NWC Playoff games going on as scheduled tonight, despite the weather.

And the All-NWC team will be released tomorrow.
And the results of the Pollster poll (7 ballots)



   Michael   Taylor      Whitworth      POTY - 1st team   
   David   Riley      Whitworth      1st team   
   Kelly   Edwards      Lewis and Clark      1st team   
   KC   Wiser      Linfield      1st team   
   Brandon   Shaw      Whitman      1st team   
   Kaleb   Shelton      UPS      1st team   
   Taylor   Mounts      Willamette      2nd team   
   Lemar   Anglin            Pacific      2nd team   
   Jack   Loofburrow      Whitworth      2nd team   
   Felix   Friedt      Whitworth      2nd team   
   Clay   Gebbers      Whitworth      2nd team   
   Kyle   MacTaggert      PLU      2nd team   
   Josh   Duckworth      Whitman      Hon. Mention   
   PJ   Taylor      Lewis and Clark      Hon. Meniion   
   Wade   Gebbers      Whitworth      Hon. Mention   
   Stephen   Wisely      GF      Hon. Mention
   Carson   Bartlett      Pacific      Hon. Mention   
   Robbie   Kunke      Willamette      Hon. Mention   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 25, 2011, 12:16:21 PM
Hoops:

Thanks for running the poll!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2011, 12:33:03 PM
+K for you nwhoops

I would be surprised if the actual NWC poll looks a lot different. We did forget Coach of the Year...has to go to Hayford. But Bridgleand deserves a few votes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 25, 2011, 12:51:27 PM
It's here.   The real official one.


2011 All-NWC Men's Basketball Team
Player of the Year: Michael Taylor, Whitworth
Coach of the Year:  Jim Hayford, Whitworth

First Team All-NWC -
Michael Taylor, Whitworth (G, 6-4, Sr./Sr., Brewster, Wash. - Univ. of Montana)
K.C. Wiser, Linfield (C, 6-8, Sr./Sr., Tigard, Ore. - Tigard)
David Riley, Whitworth (F, 6-5, Sr./Sr., Palo Alto, Calif. - Gunn)
Kelly Edwards, Lewis & Clark (G, 6-3, Sr./Sr., Bellevue, Wash. - O'Dea)
Brandon Shaw, Whitman (G, 6-2, Jr./Jr., Dallas TX - Colleyville-Heritage)
PJ Taylor, Lewis & Clark (PG, 5-10, Jr./Jr., Oakland, Calif. – Oakland)

Second Team All-NWC -
Taylor Mounts, Willamette (W/P, 6-5, Jr./Jr., Kailua, Hawaii - Iolani)
Stephen Wiseley, George Fox (PG, 5-9, Sr./Sr., Kirkland, Wash.  - Bellevue CC)
Kaleb Shelton, Puget Sound (F, 6-5, Jr./Jr., Tacoma, Wash. - Lincoln)
Mike Taylor, George Fox (W, 6-4, Jr./Jr., Los Angeles, Calif. - Marist Coll.)
Felix Friedt, Whitworth (P, 6-8, Jr./Jr., Düsseldorf, Germany - Humboldt-Gymnasium)
Kyle MacTaggart, Pacific Lutheran (W, 6-4, Sr./Sr., Goodyear, Ariz. - Millennium)

Honorable Mention –
Pacific (Ore.):  LeMar Anglin (F, 6-6, 215, Sr./Sr.)
Pacific Lutheran:  Victor Bull (P, 6-7, Sr./Sr.); Andrew Earnest (G, 5-11, So./So.)
Whitman:  Josh Duckworth (G, 6-2, Fr./Fr.)
Whitworth:  Jack Loofburrow (F, 6-7, Jr./Jr.)

Not a lot of difference from the fan poll, except that the NWC has 6 on each team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 25, 2011, 01:18:28 PM
At least it doesn't have 15-20 guys per team, like it would if the NWC football coaches were running it. ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 25, 2011, 01:32:43 PM
Anyone know the final voting numbers?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 06:06:26 PM
NWC tourney championship tonight in Spokane. If both teams play like they did Thursday Whitworth will win big (like last Spokane meeting). I would expect Whitman to stay close, Whitworth to pull away, but then KEEP the 15 point lead this time...

Pirates win and they should get a bye, and play the winner of Chapman vs. SCIAC auto bid

If Whitman does the unthinkable I'd bet there is a 4 team pod in Spokane with Chapman and Whitman meeting first, playing the winner of Whitworth vs. SCIAC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2011, 06:10:40 PM
Agreed Rat. I am looking forward to seeing Whitman in person. I am sure they will remind me of some former UPS teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 07:11:17 PM
Are you NW'ers assuming no pool c from the NW Conference?

If NW does get a pool c bid and they are seeded 4th, will they fly the California teams to NW for the first round, or play 1 game each in the NW and S.Cal? Could happen.

It will be interesting how the committee addresses 2 same conference teams playing each other as compared to the financial restraints.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2011, 07:16:39 PM
Whitman wins, then I believe Rat's prediction is true. WW and WM highly unlikely to play Thu night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 08:21:07 PM
Maybe Pat could explain seeding, but Whitman would be ranked higher in the regional rankings than the SCIAC champion and be seeded #3 in a 4 team pod with Whit, Chapman, Whitm, and CMS or Redlands.

But Whitman has to win...no way the NWC gets a pool C unless Whitman gets the auto. If you think they will then you've never seen NCAA $election committee at work...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 08:28:05 PM
As always, Whitworth will stream video (should have Castle synced to video like PLU game)...if you have good service and no access to a computer you can stream Castle (audio) on your phone and follow live stats

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball/livefeed.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball/livefeed.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2011, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 07:11:17 PM
Are you NW'ers assuming no pool c from the NW Conference?

If NW does get a pool c bid and they are seeded 4th, will they fly the California teams to NW for the first round, or play 1 game each in the NW and S.Cal? Could happen.

It will be interesting how the committee addresses 2 same conference teams playing each other as compared to the financial restraints.
Just to be clear dahlby, if Whitman loses tonight, their season is over.  No ifs, ands or but(t)s.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 09:12:27 PM
Yeah, you are probably right. The win over Whitworth probably isn't enough. But, not to degrade any team in any other region, I have watched several  teams with good records iin the other regions that are in the pool c running, and although good.....the west coast just doesn't have enough of a reputation.....But, I am pulling for you all anyway,
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2011, 09:21:01 PM
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 09:12:27 PM
Yeah, you are probably right. The win over Whitworth probably isn't enough. But, not to degrade any team in any other region, I have watched several  teams with good records iin the other regions that are in the pool c running, and although good.....the west coast just doesn't have enough of a reputation.....But, I am pulling for you all anyway,

Reputation has nothing to do with who gets a Pool C bid and who doesn't.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 09:35:04 PM
Mr. $ager is right, NCAA pool C $election ha$ nothing to do with reputation...it'$ a preci$e mathematical formula  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 09:40:18 PM
Rat,
Point well taken, especially when the poster has ties to an area where the reputation is
continually rewarded. Many fans of the game overlook the level of competition in the NW Conference. I have always pushed for Chapman to schedule more games against a higher level of competition by scheduling games agaiinst the NW conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 09:46:55 PM
T-minus 15 minutes....then it's t-shiiiiiirt Tiiiiiiiiiiimmme!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2011, 11:32:11 PM
WW leads Whitman by 17, 4:51 to play. Here we go.....crazy time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 27, 2011, 12:03:49 AM
So Buc, do you think you could swing a deal for Whitworth to host at Gil Colosseum in Corvallis?  I think that would be awesome since it could hold more people than Whitworth's gym could.  And knowing that you have ties to the AD at OSU, maybe this could get done!   ;D 

Tell David I said Congrats on a great career and good luck in the playoffs ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2011, 12:49:38 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 06:06:26 PM
NWC tourney championship tonight in Spokane. If both teams play like they did Thursday Whitworth will win big (like last Spokane meeting). I would expect Whitman to stay close, Whitworth to pull away, but then KEEP the 15 point lead this time...

Quote from: nwhoops1903Agreed Rat.


So it was a 15 point lead that got expanded to a 24 point victory...close enough. nwhoops, we are smart.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 27, 2011, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 08:21:07 PM
But Whitman has to win...no way the NWC gets a pool C unless Whitman gets the auto. If you think they will then you've never seen NCAA $election committee at work...

Every year there's the same discussion and the same speculation by the same people about things that will never happen.

Congratulations to Whitworth on a fantastic season. Enjoy the first round bye.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2011, 11:03:05 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 27, 2011, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 26, 2011, 08:21:07 PM
But Whitman has to win...no way the NWC gets a pool C unless Whitman gets the auto. If you think they will then you've never seen NCAA $election committee at work...

Every year there's the same discussion and the same speculation by the same people about things that will never happen.

Congratulations to Whitworth on a fantastic season. Enjoy the first round bye.

OxyBob

Yeah,  what HE said.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2011, 11:22:40 PM
Can Whitworth do anything to accommodate more fans.  I heard they had people watching the game behind the stands on a screen and some people went to a classroom and watched it.  Any plans to add more seating or play at Gonzaga or the arena down town?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 28, 2011, 11:11:43 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2011, 11:22:40 PM
Any plans to add more seating or play at Gonzaga or the arena down town?

On top of having a great team, Whitworth has a huge home court advantage in the Fieldhouse. Why would they ever consider playing anywhere else?

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 28, 2011, 11:52:55 AM
Agreed, too much at stake to play on a neutral court. Could also affect the bid $$$  for
ticket and concession (which stay with the host) sales as they would need to pay rent for another court, which could affect the bottom line.

It would also take Whitworth out of their normal "home" game routine.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 28, 2011, 11:11:43 AM
On top of having a great team, Whitworth has a huge home court advantage in the Fieldhouse. Why would they ever consider playing anywhere else?

OxyBob

Hey, for once we agree, my dear Oxybob.

I experienced it last year: hundreds of rabid fans, from kids to 80 year old grandpas, flocked the gym on a Saturday night. It seemed the entire college Campus was dressed in white, face painted white and red. This place is LOUD and intimidating! And they all make sure the visiting team knows it. We were all there, all ten of us Chapman fans, parked in a specifically labeled area of the gym (I felt I was at a soccer game in Europe!). This didn't prevent one of the local college student to come and rip one of our signs out of our hands. To Witworth's credit, he and the school officials later came and apologized, and after the game, they were all really nice to us. I just wonder how they would have behaved, had we won the game?!  :P  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 28, 2011, 01:10:23 PM
Whitworth is very gracious when they win! They don't lose much so they get a little testy! Great home court advantage on top of a good team! 8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 28, 2011, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 28, 2011, 11:11:43 AM
On top of having a great team, Whitworth has a huge home court advantage in the Fieldhouse. Why would they ever consider playing anywhere else?

OxyBob

Hey, for once we agree, my dear Oxybob.

I experienced it last year: hundreds of rabid fans, from kids to 80 year old grandpas, flocked the gym on a Saturday night. It seemed the entire college Campus was dressed in white, face painted white and red. This place is LOUD and intimidating! And they all make sure the visiting team knows it. We were all there, all ten of us Chapman fans, parked in a specifically labeled area of the gym (I felt I was at a soccer game in Europe!). This didn't prevent one of the local college student to come and rip one of our signs out of our hands. To Witworth's credit, he and the school officials later came and apologized, and after the game, they were all really nice to us. I just wonder how they would have behaved, had we won the game?!  :P  :D

Unfortunately, you are only telling 1 side of the story.  Yes, the STUDENT in question grabbed and ripped the sign up - wrong action on his part.  However, the ADULT in question lept across several fans, bruising the legs of a 70 year-old staff member in the process and proceded to grab the throat of the student and choke him!  Must more agregious action then stealing and ripping up a sign.  The student was punished by the university, however the adult was apologized to but did not offer any apologies to the fans he crushed in the process.

Whitworth fans are always more gracious winning OR losing, its in our up-bringing.  Just ask the Whitman fans from Saturday night who were yelling obsenities and flipping off our fans, their own AD did nothing about it...shows their lack of class as well.  We chose to show it on the court...we get to play more and they dont.  Had Chapman won, we would have been good hosts as well.

As for this year, we hope for sportsmanship at the game whether it is Chapman (probably) or Redlands.

In any case - GO BUCS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 28, 2011, 03:20:49 PM
Regardless of the situation, there are always a few rotten apples (no pun intended for Washington State Apples) in every barrel. In my times at Whitworth and 4 other NW schools, I have always been treated well by the athletes, adminstration and fans.

Let the teams fight it out.

Good luck  in the first game(s) to all (except Redlands, of course).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 03:32:23 PM
Quote from: etule on February 28, 2011, 01:10:23 PM
Whitworth is very gracious when they win! They don't lose much so they get a little testy! Great home court advantage on top of a good team! 8-)
And when we lose (rare), we stand there and wait for the other team to come back from their court storm and fan mosh pit.  A few minutes later we shake their hands and head to the locker room.  :-X
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2011, 03:54:16 PM
Glad for the most part folks have had good experiences at The Fieldhouse. Also, welcome to our SCIAC/Chapman posters. This board has been relatively active the last half of this bball season...please add to the discussion as it keeps things interesting.

Chapman has to be the favorite, but is there much of gap in terms of talent? What are each teams strengths/weaknesses? Educate me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 03:59:36 PM
I have created a top left bracket board as well in the multi region boards.  All discussion, even our pod discussion would be great.   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 04:35:58 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 28, 2011, 02:50:57 PM
Whitworth fans are always more gracious winning OR losing, its in our up-bringing.  Just ask the Whitman fans from Saturday night who were yelling obsenities and flipping off our fans, their own AD did nothing about it...shows their lack of class as well.  We chose to show it on the court...we get to play more and they dont.  Had Chapman won, we would have been good hosts as well.

As for this year, we hope for sportsmanship at the game whether it is Chapman (probably) or Redlands.

In any case - GO BUCS!

Have you ever met Linfield football fans?  I think you guys would get along famously. ::)

Good luck to Whitworth this postseason.  I've never really followed the D3 basketball tourney before, but I'm going to this year - it would be great to see the Bucs become the second NWC team to bring home a men's hoops national title.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 04:35:58 PM
Good luck to Whitworth this postseason.  I've never really followed the D3 basketball tourney before, but I'm going to this year - it would be great to see the Bucs become the second NWC team to bring home a men's hoops national title.
:P There is a woman's board a few clicks down....enjoy.   :D
Why didn't you get a POTY ballot in anyway?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 28, 2011, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: etule on February 28, 2011, 01:10:23 PM
Whitworth is very gracious when they win! They don't lose much so they get a little testy! Great home court advantage on top of a good team!

Whitworth does have boisterous, supportive fans, but the home court advantage I was referring to is the cavernous layout of the Fieldhouse, complete with the huge curtain, all of which can be a little disorienting to visiting teams who haven't played there before.

I'm sorry that oldchap lost his "Proud Parent of a Chapman Basketball Player" sign to a Whitworth ruffian. On the other hand, they are Pirates, after all.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 04:52:33 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 28, 2011, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: etule on February 28, 2011, 01:10:23 PM
Whitworth is very gracious when they win! They don't lose much so they get a little testy! Great home court advantage on top of a good team!

Whitworth does have boisterous, supportive fans, but the home court advantage I was referring to is the cavernous layout of the Fieldhouse, complete with the huge curtain, all of which can be a little disorienting to visiting teams who haven't played there before.

I'm sorry that oldchap lost his "Proud Parent of a Chapman Basketball Player" sign to a Whitworth ruffian. On the other hand, they are Pirates, after all.

OxyBob
LOL as always OxyBob.  You must have only seen one side of "THE SIGN".  The other side I think said something like "Can we join your conference"?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 28, 2011, 05:05:45 PM
northwesthoops1903:

Please, no fodder for OxyBob!

There is more than meets the eye regarding "Can we join your conference"?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 28, 2011, 05:07:36 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 04:35:58 PM

Have you ever met Linfield football fans?  I think you guys would get along famously. ::)


89,

Well I doubt that you've ever met any Willamette fans since they're too busy yelling at grandparents from rival schools who are just trying to mind their own business. 

"You want to know why I'm better than you?! Because I go to Willamette and you didn't!"  Classic.

Also, if you're a player playing at Willamette make sure you keep all of your electronics locked up tight since the visitor's locker room is known to get ransacked during the game.  :)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 05:19:08 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 28, 2011, 02:50:57 PM
Unfortunately, you are only telling 1 side of the story.  Yes, the STUDENT in question grabbed and ripped the sign up - wrong action on his part.  However, the ADULT in question lept across several fans, bruising the legs of a 70 year-old staff member in the process and proceded to grab the throat of the student and choke him!  Must more agregious action then stealing and ripping up a sign.  The student was punished by the university, however the adult was apologized to but did not offer any apologies to the fans he crushed in the process.

Whitworth fans are always more gracious winning OR losing, its in our up-bringing.  Just ask the Whitman fans from Saturday night who were yelling obsenities and flipping off our fans, their own AD did nothing about it...shows their lack of class as well.  We chose to show it on the court...we get to play more and they dont.  Had Chapman won, we would have been good hosts as well.

As for this year, we hope for sportsmanship at the game whether it is Chapman (probably) or Redlands.

In any case - GO BUCS!

Wow...  getting a little testy, aren't we?! I'm not going to go add fuel to the controversy. Let's just say that at the Chapman/Redlands game on Thursday, we won't cordon off the Redlands fans. I guess Witworth must do that to protect the visitors...  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 28, 2011, 05:32:43 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 28, 2011, 05:07:36 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 04:35:58 PM

Have you ever met Linfield football fans?  I think you guys would get along famously. ::)


89,

Well I doubt that you've ever met any Willamette fans since they're too busy yelling at grandparents from rival schools who are just trying to mind their own business. 

"You want to know why I'm better than you?! Because I go to Willamette and you didn't!"  Classic.

Also, if you're a player playing at Willamette make sure you keep all of your electronics locked up tight since the visitor's locker room is known to get ransacked during the game.  :)



Such a hater!  HAHA  But thats hilarious. I would +k if I could
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 06:00:02 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 28, 2011, 04:49:08 PM
I'm sorry that oldchap lost his "Proud Parent of a Chapman Basketball Player" sign to a Whitworth ruffian. On the other hand, they are Pirates, after all.

OxyBob

As you read from 89pirate, that one Pirate got mauled by a Panther...  ;)  (BTW, I will set the record straight: it wasn't me, although I wish I had the b... sorry, the guts to do something like this).  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 28, 2011, 06:06:39 PM
Hey everyone, long-time lurker but this is my first time posting. Sorry to add another Pirate to the board.

Question for playball: What was the toughest gym for you to play in? What are the gyms in the NWC that have good reputations?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2011, 06:43:32 PM
Echoing OxyBob, I've heard from players that shooting in The Fieldhouse can be difficult to adjust to due to the large area behind each hoop. Depth perception can be a little tricky without anything behind the basket. Although for a few regular season games and the playoffs bleachers are brought in putting fans along both baselines...

The beauty of Whitworth games is that they are full...every game, all season. Of course a few more stragglers will come out for a playoff game, but I know of no other NWC team who has reserved season ticket seats that regularly sell out (year after year).

Whitman students could learn a thing or two about fair weather fanaticism...oh yeah, UPS too. Where has everyone gone the last two years??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 28, 2011, 07:06:17 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 06:00:02 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 28, 2011, 04:49:08 PM
I'm sorry that oldchap lost his "Proud Parent of a Chapman Basketball Player" sign to a Whitworth ruffian. On the other hand, they are Pirates, after all.

OxyBob

As you read from 89pirate, that one Pirate got mauled by a Panther...  ;)  (BTW, I will set the record straight: it wasn't me, although I wish I had the b... sorry, the guts to do something like this).  ;D
Yes, he did get mauled, until myself and other Pirate 'friendlies' removed the hands from his throat.  I am glad it wasn't you, but you seriously wish you had the guts to choke a teenager?  Sounds like many a Panther adult needs anger management help.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 28, 2011, 07:07:47 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 28, 2011, 06:43:32 PM
Echoing OxyBob, I've heard from players that shooting in The Fieldhouse can be difficult to adjust to due to the large area behind each hoop. Depth perception can be a little tricky without anything behind the basket. Although for a few regular season games and the playoffs bleachers are brought in putting fans along both baselines...

The beauty of Whitworth games is that they are full...every game, all season. Of course a few more stragglers will come out for a playoff game, but I know of no other NWC team who has reserved season ticket seats that regularly sell out (year after year).

Whitman students could learn a thing or two about fair weather fanaticism...oh yeah, UPS too. Where has everyone gone the last two years??
We do have a great fan base, I can attest to that.  Loud and Proud we are!

Good call out Rat, it was dissapointing to watch...but then I have been to Walla Walla and Tacoma and they aren't any nicer there either.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 04:35:58 PM
Good luck to Whitworth this postseason.  I've never really followed the D3 basketball tourney before, but I'm going to this year - it would be great to see the Bucs become the second NWC team to bring home a men's hoops national title.
:P There is a woman's board a few clicks down....enjoy.   :D
Why didn't you get a POTY ballot in anyway?

Sorry about that, nwhoops.  Applying to law schools is, well ... a headache.  Was away from the board for a week, and by the time I got back the balloting was already closed.  Can't argue with much of it anyway!  I think you misunderstood me about the national championship, though:

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/hof/teams/bios/basketball_1993.php

I really do hope Whitworth brings home another banner to the NWC.

Adding to the "fair-weather fans" discussion, the NWC's attendance numbers are really interesting (and a bit surprising).  Here are the season averages for home games:

Whitworth: 1424
Willamette: 732
George Fox: 685
Pacific Lutheran: 591
Puget Sound: 460
Linfield: 379
Pacific: 375
Whitman: 293
Lewis & Clark: 119

wc11, glad to introduce you to Whitworth hoops fans.  FWIW, I yell at my grandparents regularly.

I just wish they would wear their hearing aids ...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 28, 2011, 07:47:23 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 28, 2011, 06:06:39 PM
Hey everyone, long-time lurker but this is my first time posting. Sorry to add another Pirate to the board.

Question for playball: What was the toughest gym for you to play in? What are the gyms in the NWC that have good reputations?

The fieldhouse is tough to play at because of the atmosphere along with the
floating hoops".  However, George Fox is also tough just because their fans are always on us since they are our main rivals.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2011, 08:09:12 PM
BP,

I too hope the Pirates can bring home some hardwear back to the NWC...this would be the conferences first NCAA championship though  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2011, 07:06:48 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 07:34:25 PM

Adding to the "fair-weather fans" discussion, the NWC's attendance numbers are really interesting (and a bit surprising).  Here are the season averages for home games:

Whitworth: 1424
Willamette: 732
George Fox: 685
Pacific Lutheran: 591
Puget Sound: 460
Linfield: 379
Pacific: 375
Whitman: 293
Lewis & Clark: 119

Thanks to final game at home vs Whitworth, Whitman finishes second from last.  Without that game, my calculator puts their average in double digits.  Heck, they traveled 150 to Spokane.  School must have been paying theater majors credits for "cultural event" participation.  You know you could say just about anything here about Whitman and still never hear from Walla Walla.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 01, 2011, 11:09:54 PM

[/quote]  You know you could say just about anything here about Whitman and still never hear from Walla Walla.
[/quote]

"It was harder than you think. Heck, it's hard enough to stay awake that long"

Hugh Campbell, Whitworth football coach in 1976 quoted in Sports Illustrated after beating Whitman 70-30.

1976 was the last year Whitman had football.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2011, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever"It was harder than you think. Heck, it's hard enough to stay awake that long"

Hugh Campbell, Whitworth football coach in 1976 quoted in Sports Illustrated after beating Whitman 70-30.

1976 was the last year Whitman had football.

+K, nice find Buc. I'm surprised Hayford didn't quote Campbell after a few of their 30+ point blowouts
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: swoosh on March 02, 2011, 05:54:38 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2011, 07:06:48 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 28, 2011, 07:34:25 PM

Adding to the "fair-weather fans" discussion, the NWC's attendance numbers are really interesting (and a bit surprising).  Here are the season averages for home games:

Whitworth: 1424
Willamette: 732
George Fox: 685
Pacific Lutheran: 591
Puget Sound: 460
Linfield: 379
Pacific: 375
Whitman: 293
Lewis & Clark: 119

Thanks to final game at home vs Whitworth, Whitman finishes second from last.  Without that game, my calculator puts their average in double digits.  Heck, they traveled 150 to Spokane.  School must have been paying theater majors credits for "cultural event" participation.  You know you could say just about anything here about Whitman and still never hear from Walla Walla.

It is easy to throw stones when you're on top of the hill. It should be noted that several red-painted Whitworth fans took it upon themselves to board the Whitman student bus to throw snowballs and profanity at the Whitman fans after the game-- apparently this is how they define "classy" in Spokane.

You won't hear boo from Walla Walla... Whitworth has had an exceptional season, so the over-the-top arrogance of their supporters on this board is not unexpected. Whitman fans will watch Whitworth's post season run with great interest, we hope all the way to the national tournament-- it will only be good for the conference.

Top 4 reasons Whitworth fans should enjoy this run while it lasts:
1) Michael Taylor, David Riley, and Clay Gebbers are seniors and will be gone next year (51% of WW offense)
2) Whitman sold out their last 2 home games and brought 2 bus loads of fans to the championship game-- even the mighty Pirates were rattled by the Whitman crowd in Sherwood Center.
3) Whitman spoiled Whitworth's perfect season
4) 13 of 14 players return next year for Whitman (90% of WC offense)

You don't hear much from Walla Walla because the writing's on the wall. Remember what happened to mighty Whitworth when Bridgeland got into his 4th year at UPS? Flap your lips while you can, and enjoy the tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: swoosh on March 02, 2011, 05:56:32 PM
Whitman fans will watch watch Whitworth's post season run... we hope all the way to the national *championship...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2011, 07:07:55 PM
Quote from: swoosh1) Michael Taylor, David Riley, and Clay Gebbers are seniors and will be gone next year (51% of WW offense)

lol, 5 years ago we lost Pecht and Tucker, then we lost Young and Williams, then Symes and Nakamura and Jurich, oh and then we lost Montgomery and Beal....and I've left out plenty of guys Whitworth has "lost" as of late.

You don't get it. There will be another Michael Taylor, Loofburrow will insert nicely, etc.

Congrats to Whitman, the turnaround is impressive. Gotta be nice to tell people you have another solid athletic program besides men's tennis. Hopefully Bridgeland doesn't run out on you guys too  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 03, 2011, 02:01:33 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 02, 2011, 07:07:55 PM
Quote from: swoosh1) Michael Taylor, David Riley, and Clay Gebbers are seniors and will be gone next year (51% of WW offense)

lol, 5 years ago we lost Pecht and Tucker, then we lost Young and Williams, then Symes and Nakamura and Jurich, oh and then we lost Montgomery and Beal....and I've left out plenty of guys Whitworth has "lost" as of late.

You don't get it. There will be another Michael Taylor, Loofburrow will insert nicely, etc.

Congrats to Whitman, the turnaround is impressive. Gotta be nice to tell people you have another solid athletic program besides men's tennis. Hopefully Bridgeland doesn't run out on you guys too  :D

Loofburrow is a good player, but he isn't a Mike Taylor.  He will need to attack the rim A LOT more. Only sixteen FT's on the season?  That will need to go up, otherwise teams will be able to just key on him and be in him on the catch.  This would disrupt most of his offense since he is a catch and shoot guy.  Loofburrow will more likely step into the role that David Riley is vacating.

The younger Gebbers will most likely begin to assert himself more on offense taking over for Taylor.  He already has shown flashes this season that he will be able to do it.  Tough kid, hard worker.

Wonder what kind of transfer kids will join Whitworth this next year after this tourny appearance/possible run?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 03, 2011, 02:55:08 PM
Felix, Loofburrow, and W. Gebbers; Hayford will build a contender around those three.  Whitman will hopefully keep their nucleus and continue to improve.  If the rest of the league improves from where they are right now, NWC basketball will be one of the best entertainment values around.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2011, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: swoosh on March 02, 2011, 05:56:32 PM
Whitman fans will watch watch Whitworth's post season run... we hope all the way to the national *championship...
Welcome to the board Swoosh.  Glad you stepped up.

No doubt Whitman will be a top 3 preseason pick.  Whitworth reloads year after year and until it doesn't happen, I will believe and expect it.  One year does not a program make.  Pirates have a BIG (tall) nucleus returning and some good freshman learning right now what WW basketball is all about.  I am confident that if we had NO transfers, we would be preseason pick AND conference champion next year.  We shall see.  If some impact transfer come in, watch out for another 20+ win season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2011, 04:54:03 PM
playball,

Taylor being replaced and Loofburrow stepping into the starting lineup were two different thoughts. Sorry, it made sense in my head. Much like Riley filled in for Young, Loofburrow will fill in for Riley. And Loofburrow is a better all around player than either of those other two...we'll see if the extra minutes helps with some of his inconsistency (while not bad it's the only knock I could think of).

Hayford has brought in a transfer who's contributed everytime he's lost or a year way from losing a top scorer. Much like nwhoops, until it stops happening, I expect the next Mike Taylor to step into that gym next summer.

If you saw Freidt play basketball his first year at Whitworth, you'd realize how far he's come. He could be scary good next year if can continue to improve at the current rate. But you never know. With as good as Whitworth was this year how do you know they don't have a scoring machine sitting on the bench? Or some great defender just sitting there?

I hope Whitman is good. I hope UPS gets better. I hope LC doesn't fall off the map. And I hope all pf them can schedule good non-conference games and win those so that the NWC can get a second team into the tourney again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on March 03, 2011, 06:22:52 PM
Swoosh, glad to see you on the board! Lots of fun when we can get some new discussions going on.

As far as Whitman, they did beat Whitworth and give them their only loss thus far, but from what I saw, it wasn't anything that Whitman did to make them not score down the stretch of that game. WW just missed shots that they normally make and had a few missed assignments but it wasn't like WM took them out of what they wanted to do. Hats off to WM for making plays that game but it shows that WW didn't have it that night down the stretch especially when you look at the 2 blowouts they had at WW. Yes, WM is a tough place to play but I just didn't see WM do much to take WW out of their game.

WM does have 90% of their team coming back and that is all fine but the style is what makes them pretty darn good. Shaw and Duckworth got game and they fit the system well. Congrats to WM and their great season, I still see them finishing in the top 4 next season but don't quite think they will get second.

Bringing up Bridgeland and what he did in the 4th year at UPS, coming from a WM fan? I suspect this is a basketball coach from WM giving praise, gotta love it!

It was fun watching the NWC this year, I hope WW takes it all the way. I look forward to watching games next season!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2011, 06:49:43 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 03, 2011, 04:54:03 PM
If you saw Freidt play basketball his first year at Whitworth, you'd realize how far he's come. He could be scary good next year if can continue to improve at the current rate. 
Let me add, Fredit is developing at a very good pace.  Nate Montgomery was a non recruited player and became a beast his senior year.  Whitworth coaches are obviously VERY good at post player development.  I can almost guarantee Freidt and Loofburrow are first team NWC players next year with W. Gebbers a possiblity if he becomes a high average scorer.  I am anticipating big tings from all 3.  Bring in an impact 2-3 player and Pirates should have a top 5 preseason ranking.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2011, 07:04:38 PM
D3hoops.com tournament preview conclusion

At the Final Four

Now, I've picked three "top seeds" to advance, which doesn't happen very often. Whitworth takes on Williams, where Troy Whittington is a tough matchup for any team. Felix Friedt would have his hands full on defense. So would Clay Gebbers, who would undoubtedly draw the defensive assignment on point guard Jay Wang. Whitworth has enough speed. Enough 3-point shooting, in a big building, but that didn't bother them in the D3hoops.com Classic, played in a similarly sized building. (Well, it may have in one game. They shot 4-for-24 in the first game and 7-for-19 in the second.) I'm going with Whitworth.

UW-Stevens Point ends Middlebury's run, I think. Middlebury has height but the Pointers have size and know how to use it. Jerrel Harris is having a great season at point guard, the team shoots well across the board and takes care of the basketball (fewer than 12 turnovers per game). Andrew Locke's minutes were limited this past weekend in the NESCAC tournament but would have to figure if he can play 16 minutes against Williams the the day after playing 22 minutes and blocking seven shots against Amherst, then he should be alright.

And Whitworth over UW-Stevens Point. The game that should have been played in Las Vegas. But it will be better played in Salem.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 03, 2011, 07:40:05 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 03, 2011, 04:54:03 PM
playball,

Taylor being replaced and Loofburrow stepping into the starting lineup were two different thoughts. Sorry, it made sense in my head. Much like Riley filled in for Young, Loofburrow will fill in for Riley. And Loofburrow is a better all around player than either of those other two...we'll see if the extra minutes helps with some of his inconsistency (while not bad it's the only knock I could think of).

Hayford has brought in a transfer who's contributed everytime he's lost or a year way from losing a top scorer. Much like nwhoops, until it stops happening, I expect the next Mike Taylor to step into that gym next summer.

If you saw Freidt play basketball his first year at Whitworth, you'd realize how far he's come. He could be scary good next year if can continue to improve at the current rate. But you never know. With as good as Whitworth was this year how do you know they don't have a scoring machine sitting on the bench? Or some great defender just sitting there?

I hope Whitman is good. I hope UPS gets better. I hope LC doesn't fall off the map. And I hope all pf them can schedule good non-conference games and win those so that the NWC can get a second team into the tourney again.

My bad, I misread it!    Loofburrow is pretty consistant seeing as he doesn't really get a TON of minutes.  Usually comes in and whap whap, couple shots fall.  Good player, just needs to get to the foul line more. 

Nate Montegomery came out of nowhere!  A role player his first couple years and then he burst on the scene.  For this leagues sake of trying to catch WW, I hope there isn't a kid on the bench for them like him. 

With Whitmans mercurial fans, if they start off hot next year, Walla Walla will be unreal. The Eastern Swing will be brutal if both those teams over there continue to play at this level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 04, 2011, 12:47:25 AM
Bring on the Panthers!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 04, 2011, 12:49:24 PM
WW will not be adding another Michael Taylor! That kid had a fantastic year.  No way are they in position they are in without him in the lineup!
They would still be really good and win the league just a lot more difficult!

I hope they are not overlooking Chapman. I want them to go on a run! Coach will have them ready. :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 04, 2011, 01:01:05 PM
So, Playball, speaking of the Eastern Washington trip ---- isn't that the equivalent of Whitman playing UPS on one night and Willamette the next?  (Except, of course, it's freeways not state highways involved....we won't even discuss Whitworth since they fly everywhere.)   Why do the teams from Oregon have to make that weird road trip when it could just be two different trips?  Spokane & Walla Walla are NOT close by any measure.   I've even noticed that teams from Oregon don't always play UPS & PLU on the same weekend anymore and that one makes more sense.  And, Whitworth & Whitman sometimes come to Oregon for single games.   Do you understand the logic?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2011, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: etule on March 04, 2011, 12:49:24 PM
WW will not be adding another Michael Taylor! That kid had a fantastic year.  No way are they in position they are in without him in the lineup!
They would still be really good and win the league just a lot more difficult!

I hope they are not overlooking Chapman. I want them to go on a run! Coach will have them ready. :-\
Do you think #1 in the nation is helping with the recruiting?  The next immediate impact player for WW might very well be currently a HS senior.  We know JH likes to find a frosh shooter (Riley, Young) and it is the arguably the easiest position to fill/recruit.

No way the y are overlooking Sat.  Chapman deserves respect.  They "took care of business" last night effectively.  2 above average players that can score/create.  Good role players.  Remind me of Ripon or Luther.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 04, 2011, 02:42:37 PM
In my experience, the one loss suffered during the year would have brought on a self reality check for the Pirates. They should be more focused than ever for the Chapman game. I think that can be referred to as "making lemonade from lemons", or something like that.

What a bummer though, if the Chapman women win tonight, they will be playing their final pod game at Chapman at the same time the men are taking on Whitworth in Spokane. I hope there is some way one can tape the men's contest, as I need to go to the women's game. Otherwise I will follow it closely, as I know the Pirate supports post continually during te game.

Good luck to both teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 04, 2011, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 04, 2011, 01:01:05 PM
So, Playball, speaking of the Eastern Washington trip ---- isn't that the equivalent of Whitman playing UPS on one night and Willamette the next?  (Except, of course, it's freeways not state highways involved....we won't even discuss Whitworth since they fly everywhere.)   Why do the teams from Oregon have to make that weird road trip when it could just be two different trips?  Spokane & Walla Walla are NOT close by any measure.   I've even noticed that teams from Oregon don't always play UPS & PLU on the same weekend anymore and that one makes more sense.  And, Whitworth & Whitman sometimes come to Oregon for single games.   Do you understand the logic?

Yeah, good point.  It is absolutely dumb with how scheduling is done.  We (Linfield) had to go on the Eastern Swing this year and then that next tuesday we played Lewis and Clark!  Doesn't make much sense.  I totally agree that UPS and PLU should be in the same weekend for all teams.  Financially I think that would make sense also. 

Maybe the schools should be bunched like this:

WW & Whitman
PLU & UPS

The "Valley" schools
All of these schools are close enough in proximity that it doesn't really matter.

Any suggestions or ideas?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2011, 05:03:15 PM
Quote from: dahlby on March 04, 2011, 02:42:37 PM
What a bummer though, if the Chapman women win tonight, they will be playing their final pod game at Chapman at the same time the men are taking on Whitworth in Spokane. I hope there is some way one can tape the men's contest, as I need to go to the women's game. Otherwise I will follow it closely, as I know the Pirate supports post continually during te game.

I know I've had colleagues run screen capture software during consults that had to be done via skype-like video conferencing. I've got some friends who are dorks so I'll see if there is some free software that will work to record the live stream. Maybe WC11 (our resident videographer) has some suggestions??

If not I'm sure folks will post updates on the boards. Of course, if you have a smartphone and a strong enough network signal (or wi fi) you can stream Bob Castle's broadcast. That way you could be at the women's game with some headphones in, listening to the best in the biz...technology is somethin'
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2011, 05:07:14 PM
On another note, if you honestly don't believe that Hayford can bring in another Michael Taylor type player then you haven't been following Whitworth basketball over the last 6 years or so.

I'm not saying they will (no inside info here). Just remember how many times people have said the EXACT same thing as etule...we hear it from Logger fans every year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2011, 05:11:10 PM
I think Etule was pleading not suggesting ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 05, 2011, 06:45:16 PM
You know, I need to get out of the water long enough to congratulate the Whitrats on their #1 d3.com rating and their fine season. Credit where credit due and all that rubbish, ey wot?
Don't blow it like we did last Thanksgiving back in St. Paul.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 05, 2011, 11:59:48 PM
Congradulations to the Pirates. Hope you go all the way!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2011, 05:25:18 PM
Quote from: dahlby on March 05, 2011, 11:59:48 PM
Congradulations to the Pirates. Hope you go all the way!
Thx dahlby.  Gonna keep watching?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2011, 10:07:18 PM
Ohio? Bummer...but knew it was coming  ::)

Rescheduling some apps on friday so I can watch/listen to the game? Not so much of a bummer  ;D

Heard oldchap got into it with 18 year olds again...curious to hear his thoughts of Whitworth/the game in general
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 06, 2011, 10:23:36 PM
(509)Rat:

Of course. You guys are contagious with all your spirit.

I just sopke with a couple of our players over at a softball game. They said there was only one instance near the end of the game when three students came over and started to heckle some Chapman parents. security tookk care of it immediately. Other than that all were pleased with the hospitality you folks always extend. I know of your hospitality, as I have received it the times I have come up.

You guys do good, take care of business this weekend and get to Salem.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 07, 2011, 10:17:59 AM
dahlby,

thanks for the kind words as usual. You get a chance to listen/watch the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 07, 2011, 10:40:28 AM
(509)Rat:
I was over at Chapman doing a little crowd control and P.R. with the vith the visitors and watching the George Fox/La. College game and caught parts of it on one of the student's lap top. George Fox has a good team and kept La. College out of its game. I watched your guys dominate....as much as I could take. Your Pirates are very impressive. Your fan support is unbelievable, just as Chapman's was on Thursday night. I am so proud of our guys, but it just seems that both our men and women's teams reach their "Peter's Principle" when they get to the second game of the playoffs.

I'll follow our west coast remaining teams and truly hope that we can add on to the respect we are finally starting to get from those east of the Rockies.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 07, 2011, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 06, 2011, 10:07:18 PM
Heard oldchap got into it with 18 year olds again...curious to hear his thoughts of Whitworth/the game in general

Wasn't me but you can read my report to find out what I thought of it, posted in the West Region Independent forum:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5506.105
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on March 07, 2011, 10:24:02 PM
WhitworthPirate fans:
Here's a link to Wooster's Sectional Tournament information page. (http://www.woosterathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/ncaa/sectional/index)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 08, 2011, 01:39:47 AM
The Chapman - Whitworth series the past couple years......
you know, I think we have something brewing that can combine the Whitworth appetite for streaking and the Chapman Underwear Run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 08, 2011, 11:43:15 AM
+K DOC...hilarious

And thanks for posting the link David
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 08, 2011, 01:22:50 PM
Ran across this on youtube.  Nice short piece on what the fan support is like for the Rats.  Congrats to Whitworth for moving on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvIV1eRbcrc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvIV1eRbcrc)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 11, 2011, 07:13:07 PM
Whitworth polishes off Marietta

93-77 final
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 11, 2011, 08:41:19 PM
Congratulations to Whitworth! They were very sharp in the first half, a little less in the second, but nevertheless had no problem taking care of business. Marietta looked very good and I wish Chapman could have played them. It would have been a pretty even matchup in my opinion. But Whitworth looks really good this year. Let's see if they can hold the distance....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 11, 2011, 10:29:26 PM
If it's any consolation to our one Whitman poster. Had the Missionaries made the tourney, and played Whitworth's schedule so far, I'd bet they'd still be in it. Of the two opponents, neither one of them was any better than Bridgeland's team in Walla Walla.

Wooster, however, looked very good tonight. Don't expect 90 points out of either team tomorrow, but Whitworth has their work cut out for 'em. Hopefully they can quiet the crowd early and the refs call the game more like the Wooster v Cabrini night cap.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2011, 12:52:20 AM
Pirates have their hands full tomorrow.  Really liked how Riley played aggressive on the offensive side and Wade Gebbers showed so much.  Freidt and Loofburrow will need to play the best defense they have played all year tomorrow and stay out of foul trouble.  Taylor?, best player in the gym tonight and showed it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 12, 2011, 11:53:54 AM
Come on, rats, show 'em what you're made of! Do it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 12, 2011, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 11, 2011, 10:29:26 PM
If it's any consolation to our one Whitman poster. Had the Missionaries made the tourney, and played Whitworth's schedule so far, I'd bet they'd still be in it. Of the two opponents, neither one of them was any better than Bridgeland's team in Walla Walla.


First of all, had Whitman won the NWC and therefore made the playoffs, Whitworth would have also made it through a Pool C bid. Knowing the NCAA, they would have played each other again in the first round, then the winner would have played Chapman. Without a bye in the first round, you would have seen a much closer game in the second round and would have had a different opinion of how good Chapman really is. In the unlikely event that the NCAA had decided on a 4 pod in Spokane, then it would have been Whitworth vs. Redlands and Whitman vs. Chapman, with the winners playing each other in the second round. I don't think Redlands would have won. As for Whitman they are an excellent team but Chapman is no slouch either and arguably better according to the regional rankings.

In any case, your comments are purely speculative and frankly down right condescending. We know you guys have an excellent team (we'll know whether you're the best next weekend) but show a little grace an humility towards the opponents you've just beaten.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2011, 06:12:03 PM
Quote from: oldchapWithout a bye in the first round, you would have seen a much closer game in the second round and would have had a different opinion of how good Chapman really is

Quote from: oldchapIn any case, your comments are purely speculative

What does that make your comment above?

Quote from: oldchap...and frankly down right condescending. We know you guys have an excellent team (we'll know whether you're the best next weekend) but show a little grace an humility towards the opponents you've just beaten.

Is this a joke? It has nothing to do with being condescending or lacking any grace/humility. It's an opinion. I've seen multiple Chapman games. I've seen several Whitman games. I think Whitman would beat you guys. So I guess I'm missing your point? I think Whitman could have beaten Marietta as well. Should their fans be as butt hurt as you are?

If Chapman played an NWC schedule my opinion is that they'd be battling with LC/Whitman/PLU for a conference tourney spot. They could come in 2nd, they could come in 5th.  You don't have to agree. I wouldn't expect you to. But I wouldn't come on here and complain about your demeanor for having a different opinion. That's almost as classy as the genital touching some of your fans like to direct at the opposing students.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 12, 2011, 06:41:53 PM
Whitman beating Chapman and Marietta = your opinion

Massey Ratings:
Whitworth #1
Marietta #13
Chapman #17
Whitman #25

NCAA regional rankings:
West:
Whitworth #1
Chapman #4
Whitman #7

Great Lakes:
Marietta #2

d3hoops Top 25:
Whitworth #1
Marietta #11
Chapman #12
Whitman: didn't get any votes

Posters poll:
Whitworth #1
Marietta #11
Chapman #14
Whitman: didn't get any votes.

These are facts. And while any team can beat any other team on a given day, you'd be hard pressed to backup your opinion with anything else but your own bias.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2011, 07:01:15 PM
lol, regional rankings are based largely on W-L record. Chapman's would be worse if they played in the NWC...they'd lose to Whitworth twice.

Pollster's poll, a bunch of guys who haven't seen all of those teams played. A lot of it is based on W-L, box scores, and historical conference strength.

Those polls are just as much opinion as my personal opinion. Nothing you posted was "fact"...rankings never are. They are simply someone else's opinion.

If Chapman had lost a couple more games to a team that was better then them (let's say Whitworth), would they still be ranked #12 at 22-5? Of course not. In fact they may drop all the way to 20th behind the rest of the 22-5 teams. Now, would you say Chapman is any worse at basketball or less talented than you would with their current schedule/ranking? Of course NOT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pointlem on March 12, 2011, 09:03:39 PM
Whitworth looked to me like a team that might win most of a 10-game series with Wooster on a neutral court.  Alas, tonight there was an almost weird number of Whitworth shots (both 3-pointers and shots around the basket) that went half way down . . . did a little tour of the hoop . . . and then came out, while Wooster shot much better tonight than they have in some games of late.  For Pirates fans, it was painful.

But what a class group of players, who gave their fans and themselves a great experience this season, with hopefully many good memories and lasting friendships.  Kudos to Coach Hayford, his colleagues, and the team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 12, 2011, 09:29:27 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 12, 2011, 09:03:39 PM
Whitworth looked to me like a team that might win most of a 10-game series with Wooster on a neutral court.  Alas, tonight there was an almost weird number of Whitworth shots (both 3-pointers and shots around the basket) that went half way down . . . did a little tour of the hoop . . . and then came out, while Wooster shot much better tonight than they have in some games of late.  For Pirates fans, it was painful.

But what a class group of players, who gave their fans and themselves a great experience this season, with hopefully many good memories and lasting friendships.  Kudos to Coach Hayford, his colleagues, and the team.

Tremendous game on both sides from what I saw.

Congratulations to Whitworth on an amazing season—you guys were pure quality and a delight to watch. The 10-point margin doesn't tell the story; this game was simply outstanding on both sides and tight throughout.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 12, 2011, 09:54:03 PM
While I don't always agree with The Rat, I don't think he was condescending at all.  As we all know rankings are completely over hyped and don't mean a thing once teams get on the court.  However, seeing how Whitworth was able to take care of business against Chapman, I think Chapman would challenge for an NWC playoff spot.  This obviously means that Chapman would have to play a tougher schedule, and pick up more loses, thus also losing their all important ranking. ;)   

I would love to play UC Santa Cruz a few times a year and then have to face them for a trip to the NCAA Tourney.

Lets be real, Chapman wouldn't have gotten all that far if in the NWC.  And honestly, take that how you will, condescending or not, but its just an opinion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: loggerfan1 on March 12, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
hmmmm..... ;D

Looking forward to seeing Whitworth in Tacoma next year! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 12, 2011, 11:05:56 PM
Quote from: loggerfan1 on March 12, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
hmmmm..... ;D

Looking forward to seeing Whitworth in Tacoma next year! 

Why?  Did your team all of a sudden improve???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 13, 2011, 01:35:01 AM
Oh well, two and done is better than LINFIELD could manage.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wooscotsfan on March 13, 2011, 10:11:15 AM
Congratulations to the Whitworth Pirates on a terrific season!  28-2 is a great record.

The Pirates were the most talented team that Wooster has faced this season and Wooster was fortunate that they hit a few more three pointers to pull out the win last night.  Mike Taylor is the best player that I have seen in Division III this year.

Some classy comments by both teams' players and coaches are in the Spokane newspaper.  Here is the link:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/mar/12/whitworth-men-beaten-wooster/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 13, 2011, 12:12:16 PM
To the Whitworth Community of players, coaches. support staff, parents, students and other supporters, congradulations on a super year.

I am looking forward to playing you again next  basketball season.

I believe your football team will be coming down to Chapman next year for our season opener. Let me know if any of you plan on attending the game. I would like to meet some of you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 13, 2011, 07:44:51 PM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 12, 2011, 11:05:56 PM
Quote from: loggerfan1 on March 12, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
hmmmm..... ;D

Looking forward to seeing Whitworth in Tacoma next year! 

Why?  Did your team all of a sudden improve???

lol +K
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 13, 2011, 09:37:05 PM
Quote from: playball on March 12, 2011, 09:54:03 PM
While I don't always agree with The Rat, I don't think he was condescending at all.  As we all know rankings are completely over hyped and don't mean a thing once teams get on the court.  However, seeing how Whitworth was able to take care of business against Chapman, I think Chapman would challenge for an NWC playoff spot.  This obviously means that Chapman would have to play a tougher schedule, and pick up more loses, thus also losing their all important ranking. ;)   

I would love to play UC Santa Cruz a few times a year and then have to face them for a trip to the NCAA Tourney.

Lets be real, Chapman wouldn't have gotten all that far if in the NWC.  And honestly, take that how you will, condescending or not, but its just an opinion.

Wait a minute... The original comment from the Rat (and I paraphrase) was that he was speculating that Whitman would have had no problem beating Chapman AND Marietta, had they been in the playoffs instead of Whitworth. So if we want to stay objective, here is something to chew on: Chapman and Whitman had 5 common opponents and both had a near identical record against these 5 opponents. The only difference comes from a non D3 opponent, Menlo. Menlo won at home against Chapman by 2 points while Whitman beat them in Walla Walla by 5 points. Difficult to conclude anything from this.

Rat's opinion is purely founded on the relatively poor performance that Chapman put out in Spokane, against a really good team on their own turf. It's hardly representative of an entire season and the true value of a team. As for Marietta, I don't know them well enough, but the fact that they were in the Sweet 16 after beating two excellent teams with very good records, says something about them.

I used the word "condescending" because I felt it was a roundabout way to take a cheap shot at two excellent teams. It's possible that Rat didn't mean it this way and in this case I apologize. However, whether he meant it or not, I still think that his comment wasn't very elegant.

One last question: how come you think that teams in the NWC has such a difficult schedule compared to Chapman's when in fact, according to the NCAA calculations, Whitworth's strength of schedule was worse than that of Chapman??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 14, 2011, 12:15:05 AM
Quote from: oldchap on March 13, 2011, 09:37:05 PM
Wait a minute... The original comment from the Rat (and I paraphrase) was that he was speculating that Whitman would have had no problem beating Chapman AND Marietta, had they been in the playoffs instead of Whitworth.

Maybe you should use quotes instead of paraphrasing:
Quote from: (509)RatHad the Missionaries made the tourney, and played Whitworth's schedule so far, I'd bet they'd still be in it.

I would bet, meaning my money would be on Whitman to win. Never did I say that "Whitman would have had no problem beating Chapman AND Marietta..."

I've seen Chapman play in person believe it or not (and watched the Redlands and Whitworth games online). I think they would have struggled with Whitman's pressure and tempo. I will admit that I only saw the one Marietta game, BUT Whitworth got into the lane off of the dribble WAY too easy. I think a lot of it had to do with Marietta wanting to limit Whitworth's 3pt shooting and it backfired, but Whitman would present the same problem. Both Chapman and Marietta really liked some of the size that could absolutely kill Whitman.

I simply would have liked those matchups if i was a Whitman fan.

As for your SOS question. It's computed based on OWP and OOWP. The Pirates gave 2 losses to everyone in the NWC and then the rest of the conference was competitive and everyone ends up with some extra losses. Some, like L&C are only able to schedule 1 non-conference, in region opponent. Meaning a lot of NWC teams have some nice wins that aren't factored into OWP and OOWP. Those are just my guesses though. I haven't seen the official OWP and OOWP numbers, but just looking at Chapman's schedule I'm really curious who helped them out, probably Redlands and CMS?

I know you are used to OxyBob's crap, but you really need to realize that this is an internet forum, where opinions and speculations run rampant. And they are just that, opinions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 14, 2011, 01:29:58 AM
Congratulations to the Coach Hayford, his team and Pirates fans everywhere on another outstanding season.  As always, you've done the conference proud.

-BP
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 14, 2011, 01:38:27 AM
No need to argue about who would beat who, the bottom line is that Whitworth 2010-11 was a very good team and the league was not down this year and all these teams, Chapman, Whitman, LC, could have competed at a national level well enough to get to the Sweet Sixteen with proper seeding.  Hopefully the NWC will get more respect and get more teams in the tournament and maybe even Chapman will get sent to another pod other than with the NWC. 

Wooster is a great team. It was a great game.  WW did not have a great night shooting.  Part of that was due to Wooster's defense, part of it was just a bad night. One more week of Division III basketball and then we get ready for next year and then we can answer the important question of whether WW will reload again?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: theg on March 14, 2011, 09:43:27 AM
I'm so glad Whitworth lost.  I feel bad for their kids, but not their fans.
Especially the kid with the messed up face and his cohort of idiots.
Suck it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 14, 2011, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2011, 12:15:05 AM
but just looking at Chapman's schedule I'm really curious who helped them out

Not including 28-2 Whitworth, the combined record of the D-III teams Chapman played this season was 117-167. Like it does every year, Chapman played no one and beat no one. When they finally played a good Whitworth team, the game was over after the first 5 minutes.

OxyBob

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 14, 2011, 12:48:05 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on March 14, 2011, 01:29:58 AM
As always, you've done the conference proud.

-BP

Waiting for you to write this about a team you love on the football board.   ;)




Congrats Rats on your fine season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 01:50:09 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 14, 2011, 11:31:33 AM
Not including 28-2 Whitworth, the combined record of the D-III teams Chapman played this season was 117-167. Like it does every year, Chapman played no one and beat no one. When they finally played a good Whitworth team, the game was over after the first 5 minutes.

OxyBob


ToxicBob is at it again!

Let me ask you something: do you have this text saved on your desktop? Or have you written it so many times that you actually remember it word for word?

Above all, don't let the facts get in the ways of a good argument. According to the NCAA official calculations, Chapman was ranked 15th in the field of the 61 teams that participated in the playoffs in terms of strength of schedule and well above that of Whitworth.

Besides, instead of continuously bashing Chapman's program, shouldn't you worry more about about your Tigers, who have helped Caltech make national news?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 02:16:43 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 14, 2011, 01:38:27 AM
No need to argue about who would beat who, the bottom line is that Whitworth 2010-11 was a very good team and the league was not down this year and all these teams, Chapman, Whitman, LC, could have competed at a national level well enough to get to the Sweet Sixteen with proper seeding.  Hopefully the NWC will get more respect and get more teams in the tournament and maybe even Chapman will get sent to another pod other than with the NWC. 

Wooster is a great team. It was a great game.  WW did not have a great night shooting.  Part of that was due to Wooster's defense, part of it was just a bad night. One more week of Division III basketball and then we get ready for next year and then we can answer the important question of whether WW will reload again?

Thank you for putting to rest this pointless argument in an elegant manner. You are right: we, West Coast Teams, should stick together in front of overwhelming adversity.

As for Whitworth, I am sad they lost. This was a great team, full of good kids, with great work ethics and an excellent coaching staff. As for their fans, except for a handful of trouble makers, the vast majority are just plain great people. I'm looking forward to a rematch Chapman-Whitworth next year, which is already in the books, on a neutral court this time (I think Santa Cruz if my sources are any good)!!!

Peace!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 14, 2011, 02:33:01 PM
oldchap,

Is WW coming to the Bay Area next year? Any dates?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 03:08:41 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 14, 2011, 02:33:01 PM
oldchap,

Is WW coming to the Bay Area next year? Any dates?

I don't have any more information other than the fact that Chapman will play Whitworth next year on a neutral court. Rumors have it that it will be in Santa Cruz, but that hasn't been confirmed. Don't quote me on that, as these are just rumors.

The other rumor I got (and this one is for Oxybob) was that Occidental has finally decided to play Chapman next year. Yeah... Now that Riley and Ramme are gone, they think they have a better chance to beat Chapman.... Good one Oxy! ...Talk about "playing no one and beating no one"...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 14, 2011, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 01:50:09 PM
According to the NCAA official calculations, Chapman was ranked 15th in the field of the 61 teams that participated in the playoffs in terms of strength of schedule and well above that of Whitworth.

Actually, I added incorrectly. Aside from 28-2 Whitworth, the combined records of the D-III teams Chapman played were 132-179. Chapman only played four D-III teams with winning records: Redlands (16-12), Olglethorpe (15-12), Claremont (16-10), and Cal Lutheran (14-12), which combined were 61-46, a measly 15 games above .500. The other D-III teams Chapman played were 71-133 combined.

Played no one, beat no one.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 12, 2011, 03:51:42 PMIn any case, your comments are purely speculative and frankly down right condescending.

Actually, oldchap, you were doing the exact same thing on several boards, with all your "Chapman would've made the Elite Eight if it hand't had to play Whitworth early" talk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 04:53:53 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 12, 2011, 03:51:42 PMIn any case, your comments are purely speculative and frankly down right condescending.

Actually, oldchap, you were doing the exact same thing on several boards, with all your "Chapman would've made the Elite Eight if it hand't had to play Whitworth early" talk.

Greg, I admit it, you got me! ...with one big exception: I didn't single out any team that Chapman would have likely beat. So yes, my comments were just as speculative but without the indirect jab to any specific programs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 05:03:08 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 14, 2011, 03:12:21 PM
Played no one, beat no one.

OxyBob

Have you ever heard of the proverbial glass house? Oxy played a BIG NO ONE, and didn't even manage to beat it. Chapman is perfectly content to be a big fish in a small pond and not a guppy...Being the best D3 team in California and the second best team on the West Coast (perhaps third, as some people would argue about Whitman) won't make the National News but it sure feels better.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 14, 2011, 05:36:06 PM
Chapman would have been beaten a few times in the NWC. Second best team in the west I don't think so. They wouldn't be second best team in NWC! Good team but weak schedule! All the NWC schools play Whitworth twice. That alone would have knocked them out of top 25! :-*
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 14, 2011, 05:52:40 PM
Whitworths short rotation finally caught up with them down the strech on Sat. Also to much one on one. Wooster is deep and had some pretty good defenders who wore WW out! good game to watch and great run by WW! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 07:23:24 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 14, 2011, 01:38:27 AM
No need to argue about who would beat who, the bottom line is that Whitworth 2010-11 was a very good team and the league was not down this year and all these teams, Chapman, Whitman, LC, could have competed at a national level well enough to get to the Sweet Sixteen with proper seeding.  Hopefully the NWC will get more respect and get more teams in the tournament and maybe even Chapman will get sent to another pod other than with the NWC.

Again with the respect thing? Guys, Pool C berths are not doled out on the basis of respect. There's a fixed formula of five criteria that are used. Exactly how those five criteria are weighted in the committee's deliberations on selection day is a matter of speculation ... but "respect" has nothing to do with it.

The NWC gets, or does not get, Pool C berths based upon the way that the teams that did not earn the automatic bid measure up in terms of those five criteria against other at-large teams around the country. The Rodney Dangerfield routine does not work. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 01:50:09 PMAbove all, don't let the facts get in the ways of a good argument. According to the NCAA official calculations, Chapman was ranked 15th in the field of the 61 teams that participated in the playoffs in terms of strength of schedule and well above that of Whitworth.

That's an empty argument to a significant degree, because: a) the NCAA only recognizes in-region games when assessing strength of schedule; and b) teams play widely-varying amounts of in-region games, with Chapman's 18 being towards the low end of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 14, 2011, 08:03:02 PM
Yeah Gregory - but it also takes into account a team's opponents opponents winning percentage which makes the field of teams greater and thus an impact on the SOS.

Now, the SOS is 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP (with the multiplier already included)... but it isn't like it rewarded Chapman for only playing 18 of their 25 games in region... in fact, they actually had less margin for error with their in-region W/L as a result.

While the 15th ranking seems high... it isn't like it was based on just those 18 games... it was also based on those 18 teams (repeats, yes) schedules.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 08:23:22 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 14, 2011, 08:03:02 PM
Yeah Gregory - but it also takes into account a team's opponents opponents winning percentage which makes the field of teams greater and thus an impact on the SOS.

Now, the SOS is 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP (with the multiplier already included)... but it isn't like it rewarded Chapman for only playing 18 of their 25 games in region... in fact, they actually had less margin for error with their in-region W/L as a result.

While the 15th ranking seems high... it isn't like it was based on just those 18 games... it was also based on those 18 teams (repeats, yes) schedules.

The other reason, I think, why Chapman's strength of schedule was relatively high is because of the new weight that the NCAA places in games played home vs. away. Out of the 29 games Chapman played this year, they only played 9 games at home, including the first round of the playoffs and other non D3 teams. If you count only season games and D3 teams, that's only 5 home games, out of which only 3 were in-region teams.

From my own experience watching College games, especially D3, I think that the NCAA was right in giving less weight to games played at home, as it has a significant impact on the final result. And when you're traveling as much as Chapman did during the season, I can tell you that it takes its toll on the players and their performance.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 09:25:45 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 14, 2011, 08:03:02 PM
Yeah Gregory - but it also takes into account a team's opponents opponents winning percentage which makes the field of teams greater and thus an impact on the SOS.

Now, the SOS is 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP (with the multiplier already included)... but it isn't like it rewarded Chapman for only playing 18 of their 25 games in region... in fact, they actually had less margin for error with their in-region W/L as a result.

While the 15th ranking seems high... it isn't like it was based on just those 18 games... it was also based on those 18 teams (repeats, yes) schedules.

I wasn't implying that Chapman got a break in terms of SOS because it played fewer games. I was simply stating the fact that the Panthers played 18 games as an illustration of the variance in the number of in-region games, as numerous teams around the country played upwards of 26 or 27 games. That skews any comparative calculations, for OOWP as well as for OWP.

Quote from: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 08:23:22 PMThe other reason, I think, why Chapman's strength of schedule was relatively high is because of the new weight that the NCAA places in games played home vs. away. Out of the 29 games Chapman played this year, they only played 9 games at home, including the first round of the playoffs and other non D3 teams. If you count only season games and D3 teams, that's only 5 home games, out of which only 3 were in-region teams.

That's a good point, oldchap.

Quote from: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 08:23:22 PMFrom my own experience watching College games, especially D3, I think that the NCAA was right in giving less weight to games played at home, as it has a significant impact on the final result. And when you're traveling as much as Chapman did during the season, I can tell you that it takes its toll on the players and their performance.

Yes, but the $64,000 question is how much more should road games be weighted than home games. A lot of people who commented on this subject in the Multi-Regional Topics rooms felt that the weighted multipliers were too exaggerated.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 14, 2011, 09:52:27 PM
FWIW:

After reading several posts regarding several opinions of Chapman, I felt the need to comment. Everyone seems to be a great analyst regarding what was, or coulda' been, shoulda' been, was, what ifs', if onlys'...the list goes on.

First, the bottom line is, it is what it WAS. Anyone, including myself, with around 4 decades of marketing and marketing research experience, can take all the coaches, committee, poster's, SID's or any other poll and twist and turn the polls or results of the various contests and make them read what we want. So why don't we all just agree to disagree and move on.

Let's pin our hopes and dreams for the teams, conferences (or lack thereof), and  regions on the remaiining remaining spring sports. If those sports don't interest you, then we can start talking about the fall sports, and if they don't interest you, we can move on to next season's basketball season.

Although nothing is firm yet, meaning no contracts, I hear that Chapman will be playing most of, if not all of the SCIAC teams next year. Chapman only played George Fox in the regular season this year, and I don't know if it was a 2 year contract or not. But I have heard that we will be playing a couple of NW conference teams next year.  This will be a better gauge of Chapman's strength of schedule.

Chapman has a problem scheduling games in January and February, as you all are aware.
There is not problem scheduling thru December. Next year Chapman loses at least a couple of games against Dallas, who will join a conference. Fortunately, a couple of SCIAC teams, along with a couple of NW teams will fill that void. The bottom side is that it only means more games for Chapman in a shorter period of time, which means less time between games early in the season.

What this will probably mean is that Chapman will need to schedule the La Sierra's, West
Coast Baptist's, American Sports Institute's, Pacifca's and the like during the last part of the regular season. As you all are aware, the competition is not as high with those teams. Then, if Chapman makes the playoffs, they will need to play at a much higher level, almost immediately.

In the meantime, all I can say is that, given its schedule, however you feel about it, is that in the few games that Chapman played, that counted, with the exception of Cal LU and Whitworth, they took care of business. And isn't that what it is all about, doing the best you can with what you have been given?

Good luck to all your favorite teams.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldchap on March 14, 2011, 11:31:14 PM
Great post Dahlby!

I will just correct one small inaccuracy: Chapman did play (and won against) not one, but two NWC teams: George Fox and Puget Sound. Those aren't at the top of the NWC but aren't rollovers either. Chapman also managed to play (and beat) Oglethorpe, which finished 10-6 in the SCAC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 15, 2011, 12:15:28 AM
oldchap:

I stand corrected. Thank you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 15, 2011, 01:24:06 PM
Well deserved K.C. !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 15, 2011, 03:00:38 PM
After all the hate you pitch on Linfield hoops, now you congratulate?  Thanks I guess.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 15, 2011, 03:31:45 PM
A quick story about D O.C. that I think you hoop fans would enjoy (I've posted this on the FB board at one time):

D O.C. attended Linfield back in the day (late 60's - early 70's) when Linfield Legend Ted Wilson was the basketball coach and the 'Cats played in the tiny barn of a gym (Riley Gym) where Walker Hall now stands (across the street from the commons).  Riley was pack to the gills during this era and the crowd was pretty much on top of the floor and very rowdy.  At that time the 'Cats had a very damn good hoops program as the 'Cats were winning consecutive NWC titles and was of playoff caliber year in and year out.

A classmates of D O.C told me this story and I've confirmed this with various folks that this is pretty accurate.  D O.C. would attend every home game but he wouldn't sit in the student section or even with the crowd.  D O.C. would bring a folding chair into the games and sit near the baseline or in the opposite corner from the crowd and be all by himself watching the game from his court side chair.  When the 'Cats had a team on the ropes and D O.C. thought the game was in hand he would stand up, fold up his chair, and leave.  The Linfield crowd caught on and knew when D O.C. left, the game was finished for the visitor, and it was the ultimate "it's all over" moment for visiting teams.

The best part of this story is that the 'Cats hosted a playoff game at Riley Gym one year (can't recall each year) and on the opening tip, Linfield took the opening possession in for a score to open up a 2-0 lead. 

Right then, Dens stood up, folded up his chair and left the gym.  From what I'm told, Riley Gym exploded as the fans went crazy and the 'Cats went on and rolled for the win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D3Fan24 on March 16, 2011, 08:15:35 PM
Congrats to Whitman freshman guard Josh Duckworth on being named D3hoops.com West Region Freshman of the Year. Fantastic season.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 17, 2011, 06:53:32 PM
Did I miss something or did Chapman join the NWC?   BTW Congrats to the Pirates -- you had a good run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 18, 2011, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: bbaddict on March 17, 2011, 06:53:32 PM
Did I miss something or did Chapman join the NWC?   BTW Congrats to the Pirates -- you had a good run.

If we lose a football team in the conference and fall below the number of teams that give us an automatic bid to the playoffs for football (remember WW football not getting in despite winning the league--getting sent to Wooster, Ohio is not even close to the biggest screw job the NCAA has pulled on WW) Chapman would be a better fit than Menlo College.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 21, 2011, 02:59:05 PM
With Pacific and GF adding football there is no need for the NWC to expand. Only way they add another member is if a current NW DII or NAIA were to join NCAA DIII...if you ask me  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 21, 2011, 04:02:13 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 21, 2011, 02:59:05 PM
With Pacific and GF adding football there is no need for the NWC to expand. Only way they add another member is if a current NW DII or NAIA were to join NCAA DIII...if you ask me  :)

College of Idaho has been "exploring" DIII membership and they would only make that jump if they would be granted membership in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 21, 2011, 05:28:13 PM
Did I read it right! Only one player from the west coast on All American D3 team and he was "Player of the year"
There is definately a bias! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 21, 2011, 07:33:09 PM
Don't know if you're being sarcastic but considering that about 6% of Division III schools are on the west coast, one player out of 25 on the team is just about right.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 21, 2011, 09:20:40 PM
Having only 1 player from the west coast is not justification for a complaint of bias. Having a 6% representation is not a good excuse for reasoning that there is not a bias. I would hope that those that voted for the team only analyzed the  impact/statistics and voted for the players, based on a predetermined list of criteria. IMHO
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 22, 2011, 01:08:26 AM
Indeed, there is no guaranteed All-American slot for the west coast and no need for there to be only one player if the conditions warrant.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 22, 2011, 01:30:32 PM
The player that comes to my mind is Wisner ! I saw St Thomas play twice this year. They are really solid. I also watched ; Whitworth and Wooster and he would be as good as any post guy in the country whatever the percentages are! He also had great stats!
So it is about where most the teams are located not the players! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 22, 2011, 03:23:19 PM
Quote from: (509)RatIt doesn't hurt to have Michael Taylor either...I've seen Nakamura, Williams and Pecht (although he was more of a forward) play. Taylor is the best guard Whitworth has had, period.

I remember when I made this statement in December. It was met with some hostility from Whitworth posters...

So what's the latest out of Cheney?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 22, 2011, 04:53:48 PM
I agree on Taylor! He was a difference maker on that team this year. Gebbers is good but he is not Taylor! I thought Neal was good till they got Taylor.
I will go out on a limb and say they will not get the D3 player of the year transfer in this year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 22, 2011, 06:09:24 PM
It will be hard to top National Player of the Year.  Michael was and is a special player and Whitworth most likely will never see that award given to a Pirate again.  Had he played 4 years he would be holding every scoring record at WW and possibly the NWC.  Congrats to him and the rest of the the squad.  Riley was All Region and Fredit was Academic All American.  Sounds like a great team and a great program.  Final poll lists them at #5.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 24, 2011, 02:26:46 AM
etule, I dont care what everyone else says about you, you are alright in my book!   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 24, 2011, 03:20:21 PM
Just call um as I see um! Thanks 8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 28, 2011, 05:51:23 PM
The rest of the NWC just caught a huge break! Hayford to take over as EWU Coach. Congrats to coach Hayford! Hopefully he'll bring up the talent level in Cheney as well. They could be competing for Big Sky championships every year with a decent coach.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/mar/28/hayford-will-take-eastern-coaching-job/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/mar/28/hayford-will-take-eastern-coaching-job/)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 28, 2011, 06:11:58 PM
It will be fun to watch! He is a very good coach! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 28, 2011, 10:44:06 PM
Wow!!  Good luck to coach Hayford.  I wonder if Craig Fortier goes with him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2011, 11:09:19 PM
I want to wish the best of luck to Coach Hayford, too. I always root for D3 guys when they move to another division (e.g., Shaka Smart of Virginia Commonwealth).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 31, 2011, 03:51:43 AM
What Hayford has created at Whitworth is special. He could not have done it without Bill Robinson as his president. As a Whitworth alum, I have been so happy with how the basketball program and the school have progressed with these guys on campus.  I believe that we have found the right person to take over for Bill.  Now we need to find the right person to take over for Jim. Transitions are scary when things are going so well, especially when the bar has been set so high. I hope we can keep up the high standards that have been set on the field and in the classroom. I know it's too much to expect, but it's just been so much fun.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 31, 2011, 03:11:50 PM
Going to be a tough act to follow. The bar is definitely high.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on April 26, 2011, 11:16:26 PM
Had most (10) of the players over a couple of fridays ago for dinner.  Bob Castle and Warren the AD as well.  Great bunch of guys...man some of them can really put down the chow.  All unsure of the future at Whitworth with new staffing coming.  Played pool and chatted for awhile...

On a different note...EWU gets 14 year NBA veteran (Craig Ehlo) as an assistant coach under Hayford.  That will be big for recruiting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on April 27, 2011, 02:02:04 PM
Any word on who will replace Hayford? Ehlo will definately help! Heard there may be some players leaving Eastern. Not because of the coach !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 02, 2011, 02:10:35 PM
Whitworth has their guy.....

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/may/02/whitworth-settles-logie-new-basketball-coach/

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 02, 2011, 03:22:29 PM
Boy, was that fast. It took Whitworth barely a month to find, interview, and hire a new head coach. It's usually a six- to eight-week process to do this, if not longer.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 02, 2011, 07:04:41 PM
A big welcome to Coach Logie!

Now the million $$ question...can he recruit at the DIII level? Not easy when you can't give kids money.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on May 02, 2011, 11:48:03 PM
The million $$ question is -- why him?   It seems like he's really young & looking at their schedule from last year, their team didn't seem all that successful.  Am I missing something?  Yeah, I get that he's from D-I -- not sure if that helps him with DIII athletes.

Speaking of missing something . . .does anyone know what's going on with the AD at Willamette?  Was at a baseball game on Sunday and people were talking about the "new" AD.   Wondered what's up?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 03, 2011, 01:36:04 PM
This, I guess, is why:

Here's the complete press release on Logie
http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/BasketballMen/Releases/10_11/Logie.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/BasketballMen/Releases/10_11/Logie.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on May 03, 2011, 06:36:08 PM
Yeah, thanks Rat.   I read that, but it was after I posted my comment.   I'm sure he'll be a great coach for Whitworth, but you're probably going to miss Hayford a lot.  It's only fair for us to question & examine the new coach -- that's what everyone did when Gordie retired.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 04, 2011, 11:39:01 AM
bbaddict,

You are absolutely right about missing Hayford. He was a schmoozer, a winer and diner, and very good at two things: Raising $$$ for the program and getting talented players to play for him.

In all honesty, it's my opinion that guys like Wecker and Fortier did just as much for the program in terms of "coaching" (ie X's and O's, teaching technique, off season workouts, etc.). Of course, that is often times the case for assisstant coaches, but Hayford was definitely a "CEO-type" head coach where his biggest attribute was bringing in all of the necessary parts. I think Logie will be one of the best coaches in the conference in terms of game-planning and "strategery"...but without the talent, there will be no deep playoff runs.

Whitworth was so good as of late because the Pirates were simply more talented than everyone else in the conference. If Logie can target and land the Pecht's, Young's, Nakamura's, Riley's, Beal's, Montgomery's, Taylor's...this list could go on forever...and keep milking Hayford's contacts for $$ then Whitworth won't miss a beat. They have enough talent next year returning to, again, be at the top of the conference. But so did Lunt...and look where UPS is once Bridgeland's recruits left...

For the Whitworth fans, here's a story the Spokesman did on Logie's Northwest roots
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/may/03/new-whitworth-coach-brings-hoops-pedigree/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/may/03/new-whitworth-coach-brings-hoops-pedigree/)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on October 17, 2011, 05:33:19 PM
Heard from the grapevine that Whitworth got another Montana guard ! Amazing! Any other news? Who is the favorite this year? Whitman looks good and Whitworth probably the top two!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 19, 2011, 06:34:45 PM
Too early for much on the web pages.  In alphabetical order, Fox has no news, nor does Linfield, Pacific, or UPS. 

LC added 4 bigs to their predominately guard team.  That should be a real plus if any of them can play.  That would unusual for them too, having a post that can play.  Their photos look good, though! 
PLU added 8 freshman, so they will be young, some of them have pretty good honors and two post players.  Freshmen have it rough in this league, though. 
Whitman added 6 freshman, guards and forwards, but I couldn't find where Bridgeland gave his "the new recruits can all walk on water" interview.  There is probably a couple of keepers in that group, knowing Bridgeland. 
Whitworth, according to their web page, added two posts, a Frosh and a JC transfer, and two forwards, also a Frosh and JC transfer.  No mention of anyone from Montana, but it may be old news.
And Willamette added 7 freshmen, including a 6'6" post, all averaging 15+/- points in high school.  (See comment above about freshman.).

I think the top three from last year will be the top 3 this year, I just haven't had a chance to line them up yet. 

New coaches at LC and Whitworth, young coaches at Wil and PacU.  Interesting how that might work out in the standings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 20, 2011, 06:01:28 PM
Quote from: etule on October 17, 2011, 05:33:19 PM
Heard from the grapevine that Whitworth got another Montana guard ! Amazing! Any other news? Who is the favorite this year? Whitman looks good and Whitworth probably the top two!

The transfer in question, Taylor Farnsworth, redshirted at Montana this past season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 20, 2011, 07:34:10 PM
Yup, I see it now.  Missed the Montana part when I read the recap of him. 

Another good big for Whitworth?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on October 24, 2011, 06:21:25 PM
Whitworth also picked up a guard from Europe that could not get in to Montana for some reason. I did not know they picked up a big! Wow!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on October 25, 2011, 12:39:52 PM
From what I have heard, the kid from Brussels was ineligible to play at Div 1 (although recruited by TCU) due to playing club ball over seas.  We only get him for 1 year I believe, but from the players that I have talked to, he is a gamer.  They even assigned him #5 which was Michael Taylor's last year and we all know how good he was.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 31, 2011, 12:21:43 PM
Not much out of the camps right now, except I caught that another ACL injury for the Bartlett family.  A friend ran into him and he said he is out for the season.  A big loss of PacU. 

I haven't heard anything out of LC other than Hollins is back full strength and Taylor is looking good.  Just generic stuff.

Anyone got anything else on the OR teams.  Linfield and Fox have to be down this year with graduation.  What about Willamette?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on November 03, 2011, 03:06:47 PM
No surprises on coaches poll! After the top two I think three and four are wide open! Looking forward to games!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 03, 2011, 06:46:06 PM
I think the coaches did a good job this year with the poll.  The top three for me is an easy call, then it starts to get iffy.  UPS and PLU are right there, but I am not sure in which order.  Both will give the league a good game.  Then the rest of the OR schools.  Linfield may be too low, but after losing Wiser to graduation, they may fall way back in the pack.  Nobody seems to know about these teams, so kinda hard to pick the order.

Exhibition games are coming up, then a short time to the pre-league!  With the NBA locked out, can't wait for these games to start.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 03, 2011, 11:04:12 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on October 31, 2011, 12:21:43 PM
Anyone got anything else on the OR teams.  Linfield and Fox have to be down this year with graduation.  What about Willamette?

Not much yet, but there is one big story I've heard so far: 6'6'' post Sean Dart, who was the Bearcats' only real threat down low last year, is out for the season with an Achilles (?) injury.

Also, junior guard Terrell Malley didn't play football this year, so he'll be available right away and probably ought to start.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 07, 2011, 10:10:57 AM
PacU and LC get blown out by OSU and U of O.  Nothing unusual about this except...

PacU holds a D1 to 64 points after trailing 33-9 at the half.  And, as their coach said, PacU "actually held them scoreless for a seven-minute stretch of the second half."  That's something to build on.

LC was leading U of O by 4 with 12:41 left in the first half, then the wheels came off.  And, Hollins doesn't play at all.  Transfer Erickson leads the team in scoring and rebounding, getting 22 and 6.  If he can score 22 against a D1,...

Really, not much to get from these games.  PLU on the 12th before we get to some games that can make some sense.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 07, 2011, 11:51:04 AM
Willamette lost 114-73 at D-I University of Idaho in another exhibition game.  The Bearcats were only down 14 at halftime, though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on November 15, 2011, 05:29:57 PM
Games start tonight! Im looking forward to  a fun season. I think the NWC is going to be crazy this year! Fun stuff!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 16, 2011, 01:36:48 PM
Willamette played an Alumni game last weekend, with the current Bearcats pulling out an 82-74 win.  Lots of familiar names from recent years on the alumni roster:

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/archive/2011/11/12_MBK_Alumni_Game.php

Granted, it was just a scrimmage, but this team's going to have to commit a lot fewer than 30 turnovers if they want to be competitive in the NWC this year ...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 17, 2011, 10:35:22 PM
Whitworth at home against UC Santa Cruz

Gebbers and Lasisi will be one of the best backcourts in the conference, Freidt and Loofburrow is the best frontcourt in the conference. Larkin started tonight, but I don't know how long that will last. Between Gebbers, Lasisi, and Loofburrow they have guys that can hit from deep so I'd like to see a rangy guy who can defend at the 3 guard...since there isn't a Dave Riley on the team this year.

So far Whitworth is playing good D, creating a lot of turnovers, but this is UC Santa Cruz and the offense looks a little out of sorts. Wash U should be a much better game even though it looks like they've struggled since the championship teams graduated.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 18, 2011, 04:25:34 PM
Willamette opens the season this afternoon against D'Youville (from Buffalo, NY - had to look that one up) at a neutral site in Grand Rapids, MI.  Calvin (the neutral site) is apparently providing LIVE STATS (http://www.calvin.edu/scoreboard) and VIDEO (http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/calvin.portal) for both the game today and for the Bearcats' matchup with either Calvin or Grace Bible tomorrow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 20, 2011, 08:00:54 PM
It's a final. 88-66 Whitworth over Washington University

Defense played great. Probably helped that the Bears had to learn to shoot at the Fieldhouse on the fly. This team is deep. Logie rotates a lot of guys and Whitworth didn't really miss a beat no matter what lineup he had on the court. Wash U is definitely not what they were a few years ago, but they weren't as bad as Santa Cruz, Whitworth just played a much better game than they did against the Banana Slugs.

Cal Lu is next...

Oh, and if you are a fan of an opposing team not familiar with the Pirates, here's a little video about the program. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjr2VjCCHPE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjr2VjCCHPE)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on November 20, 2011, 09:40:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 20, 2011, 08:00:54 PM
It's a final. 88-66 Whitworth over Washington University.

Wow!  It looks like the game was even worse than the final score would suggest.  Glad to hear we are better than Santa Cruz.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 21, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Wash U did some nice things on the offensive end. Their set plays looked good, the players were just a second too slow many times when making decisions (wether to pass or shoot), allowing Whitworth defenders to close and make plays.

Also, while Wash U could have done a better job defending the perimeter, there isn't a whole lot you can do when a guy is 7-10 from 3. It's just not your night when that happens.

Should be fun to see how Whitworth plays on the road this weekend. If the shooting continues the rest of the conference should be very worried...as if they weren't already  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on November 21, 2011, 05:23:32 PM
It is a quality win for sure.  Go Pirates!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on November 22, 2011, 06:29:22 PM
Whitwoth just re loads! I expect to see some players from Eastern in the future of the Pirates! Great run of great players and coaching ! Good for the NWC! Interesting games coming up!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on November 22, 2011, 06:31:48 PM
Forgot to mention that I saw UPS play this last weekend! They are much improved. Their big man played great and their press looked good. They are going to be a tough game if they hit their outside shots! They are going to be tough inside!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 23, 2011, 04:53:52 PM
Saw Linfield play at Portland State.  Good team, will play hard like usual.  They are better than an 8th place team, especially when David Lee comes back into the line up. 

The conference is going to come down to UPS and Whitworth (I know, crazy to think...)  Whitman will place third but they played out of their minds last year and way over achieved.  Whitworth, with their transfers playing with the guys they already have there will be hard for this conference to try and stop. 

UPS will be a force if Gittens stays on the court.  He is the most athletically gifted big man in the conference and I dont see any one being able to stop him.  The only way to try and contain him will be to get him in foul trouble as he goes, and gets, a lot of blocked shots.  I would like to see the UPS Whitworth game just to see the match up between Freidt and Gittens.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 23, 2011, 10:26:20 PM
Playball:
How can you ignore LC?  I saw them play NW Christian, and they have legitimate bigs this year along with quality guards.  I think they will be in the mix, if they can mesh with the new coach. 

Gittens is very athletic, but the league has learned how to handle the UPS press, and it is not as effective without 3 all-league players like they had with Foster, Kraul and Williams.  I am not sure Lunt knows how to get UPS to use it without top notch players, nor should he.  UPS will be a top team, but I am not sure 1 or 2.

Also:
I missed the NW Christian/Pac U game, but I saw Pac U play Evergreen.  They are much improved and will not finish in last place this year.  Losing Bartlett is a huge loss, but they brought in 9 who can play.  I don't think top 3 for them, but they could take down a top team or two.  Note:  I don't pay too much attention to scores, but Pac U seemed to have handled NW Christian better than LC did. 
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Falcons04 on November 26, 2011, 01:07:27 AM
UWRF wins 68-59 against Pacific Lutheran.  They were down by 6 at one point in the first half, but came back to take a lead and opened it up to 11 with 4 to go in the game.  All 5 Falcon starters played 30+ minutes and scored in double figures, led by Manor and Guerin with 14 a piece.  The negatives were 17/29 from the line and 16 turnovers.  They play 4-0 Puget Sound tomorrow night.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 26, 2011, 03:35:27 PM
To be honest, I forgot about LC a little.  So as I was thinking about where I would rank them, I realized why I dont think they will be in the top 2, or even top 4.  Its because of the return of Hollins.  I believe that he is more of a detriment to the team than he is an addition.  He takes bad/iffy shots and doesn't seem like that much of a team player from what I remember from years past.  He is a good rebounder from the guard spot so that will help if their bigs don't turn out to be anything.  But when your teammates say "what is he doing?!" while on the court, you aren't one of two things A) A team first guy or B) Realizing the tempo of the game and what type of play should be made.

Good player don't get me wrong. I just dont think he quite fits in with this LC team
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 26, 2011, 04:39:05 PM
Whitworth beats Chapman 58-44
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 26, 2011, 05:28:07 PM
How was the point guard from Chapman.  He played well against Whitworth in last year's playoff game.

Disagree with the above assessment of Hollins.  I don't remember him taking any different shots than the rest of the team.  I did not like LC's shot selection overall, but I would not have singled Hollins out specifically.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCpio26 on November 27, 2011, 06:38:38 PM
Playball... you have to also remember that its been a while since you have seen hollins play. He and the team have grown tremendously. Seeing a couple of LC games this year I can say that Hollins is not what you make him out to be. I dont see the logic behind a great player coming back and the team getting worse. Hollins is a great player that likes to score but also grabs tons of rebounds for the team. LC is an aggressive team that likes to shoot. If he is so detrimental for the team I don't see why he has played so much and has been top in almost every team statistical category. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 27, 2011, 08:00:46 PM
LCpio

You have to remember that playball has actually played against Hollins while you've just watched from the bleachers.

I'd be shocked if LC finishes higher than 4th this year. And I wouldn't be surprised if they finish behind PLU in 5th.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on November 28, 2011, 03:09:05 PM
UPS is for real this year! Their bench came in and did the job against a very good WRF team this weekend. It will be a good match up with Whitworth! MWC dominated the SCIAC this year. I think that league is down this year with the exception of Clairemont! UPS should be ranked this week!  8-)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 29, 2011, 07:31:38 PM
Whitworth moves up to #8 in the new d3hoops rankings

UPS checks in at #22
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: LCpio26 on November 30, 2011, 02:00:33 AM
Hollins Knocks Down Game-High 19 Points in Men's Basketball 76-64 Loss To Portland

http://lcpioneers.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/releases/20111130t8lw0f
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on November 30, 2011, 12:26:13 PM
Very impressive game for L&C! It is going to be a great year in the NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 01, 2011, 03:42:52 AM
Quote from: LCpio26 on November 27, 2011, 06:38:38 PM
Playball... you have to also remember that its been a while since you have seen hollins play. He and the team have grown tremendously. Seeing a couple of LC games this year I can say that Hollins is not what you make him out to be. I dont see the logic behind a great player coming back and the team getting worse. Hollins is a great player that likes to score but also grabs tons of rebounds for the team. LC is an aggressive team that likes to shoot. If he is so detrimental for the team I don't see why he has played so much and has been top in almost every team statistical category.


Almost every statistical category as in Shooting percentage? 32.8% out of a starting guard isn't good.  Granted the team shoots only 36%.  Looking at some of the other stats, he IS towards the top of the lists for his team.  BUT, again, LC team stats are AWFUL!  Shooting less the 30% from 3 AS A TEAM?!  I know it is their style but you would think PJ would've rallied the troops to get in the gym this last summer!  If you expect this team NOT to be overlooked, they need to start playing better. I know you are probably going to say that not all things basketball show up in the stats.  I say to that is that overall team stats show a good picture.  Nice article by the way on their game against UP, Hollins with 19.  He might get his points but this team won't be as successful as you think.  And a "great player" Hollins is not. 

And thanks Rat, I appreciate it.  If I could give +K I would.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 01, 2011, 11:17:48 AM
Quote from: playball on December 01, 2011, 03:42:52 AM
And thanks Rat, I appreciate it.  If I could give +K I would.  :)

start posting more...problem solved  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2011, 01:02:55 AM
GF beat Whitman 58-47
Whitworth beats LC 77-69

I don't think we'll see Logie go as deep into the bench in many of these conference games. Offense struggled when Gebbers, Freidt, Lasisi, weren't on the floor. Although I thought McConnell and McCargar played great defensively in relief (actually they took care of the ball offensively too, didn't make mistakes). The bench preventing big LC runs was the key tonight. Freidt led all scorers with 23 points (10 rebounds). Larkin needs to stop shooting the basketball...1-6 from 3. I'd rather see anyone in that starting spot but that's why I'm not a coach. Logie must see something.

LC took some bad shots, were very streaky on the offensive end. But they've usually got 4 guys on the court that can shoot and their guards are very good at getting to the hoop. They have a lot of talent, and after the GF v Whitman game tonight I'd say LC should be able to finish 3rd (not 4th) in the conference. Wells was their best player tonight IMO. Hollins' stats ended up looking good but he took some bad shots and killed some LC runs all by himself, either with a TO, bad shot, dumb foul, etc. Don't know if LC has enough of an inside presence to knock of Whitworth or UPS (if their big guy can ever stay out of foul trouble).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2011, 01:18:00 AM
Side note - Whitworth (I believe) is now 71-3 at home over the last 6 years, and winners of 40 straight in the Fieldhouse
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2011, 01:28:32 AM
Other scores

UPS 68 - Pacific 61
PLU 82 - Willamette 81 (Malley fouled with 1 second left while the game was tied???? PLU hits game-winning FT...)

Standings

Whitworth          1-0
UPS                  1-0
George Fox        1-0
PLU                  1-0
Pacific              1-1
L&C                  0-1
Whitman           0-1
Willamette         0-1
Linfield              0-1
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 03, 2011, 04:02:50 AM
Rat--

Agree with your thoughts from the LC/WW game. LC guards looked like they could get to the rim at will, Larkin took too many 3s for WW (but he is tall-ish athletic and can play D, which is why he starts over McConnell or another PG IMO) and Hollins played okay, but he made some really dumb mistakes (that tech on the in-bounds come to mind right away). Pirates looked best when they got the ball in to Friedt and let him either take the ball to the hoop or wait for the double-team and kick it out. He should be touching the ball most possessions. I love Gebbers--that guy is so tough and has been shooting lights out the last few games at the Fieldhouse. A few things I am interested in seeing re: Whitworth: 1) See if Logie keeps rotating this many guys throughout the season (esp. against the other favorites in the NWC: WM, UPS and when they go on the road to LC); 2) See if Friedt can take the ball to the rim a little tougher because he shoots a bunch from his shoulder; and 3) See if Lasisi can improve his outside shot, because he is really tough to stop going to the rim--might be the most athletic guy WW has had in recent memory (since maybe Williams or even as far back as Wickers?). He hit a couple threes tonight, but missed a few open threes pretty badly.

Anybody see the Fox/WM game tonight? What happened? I wasn't expecting much from Fox this year, but that's a great road win for them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 03, 2011, 04:57:40 AM
Random thoughts
Gittens going for 16 and 9 in 20 minutes? Impressive for UPS! 

19 offensive rebounds for Whitman...AND they LOSE?!  And Shaw still not starting.  Is he hurt?  Wonder if his freshmen year was almost flukey?  Low scoring, is Bridge going away from his uptempo helter skelter style of press?

Willamette and PLU looks like they had a very uptempo game and Meehan with 4 blocks, good for him!  Nice to see Sean Dart's name in the box score after that injury from last year.   

So with the GF upset of Whitman, Willamette barely losing to PLU, UPS beating a surprising Pacific, and Whitworth taking down LC at home, what is everyones predictions for tonights (saturdays) games?

UPS at Will  ---> UPS has the bigs to control the paint and with Dart just now getting into the games with only limited minutes, I see UPS taking this one by 10.

Fox at WW  ---> Whitworth at home, 71-3 over the last 6 years. Make that 72-3 since they are just too talented to lose in front of their crowd and refs.  WW by 13

PLU at Linf  ---> Im torn on this one.  If Batuik plays decent minutes and gets 10 shots I think that Linfield may have a pretty good chance at this one.  Its going to come down to guard play however and I think Linfields length will overwhelm the smaller 6' and under league Lutes.  Linfield by 5.

LC at Whitman  ---> If LC tries to run with Whitman, Im going to take Whitman.  LC is going to have to take care of the ball and not take dumb shots (pio26 see above post ;) ) If they are able to do this and keep the score down in the 50's, LC wins.  Ill take Whitman by 8 though since I dont see them going 0-2 at home to start the conference season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 10:56:03 AM
Quote from: playball on December 03, 2011, 04:57:40 AM
Fox at WW  ---> Whitworth at home, 71-3 over the last 6 years. Make that 72-3 since they are just too talented to lose in front of their crowd and refs.  WW by 13

Playball,

Now that you are a former player, there are certain boundaries you cannot cross. No one that played for a Willamette Valley team has the right to complain about Spokane refs. Seriously!!!   That's like Bernie Madoff complaining that someone in the prison poker game conned him out of some money.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2011, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on December 03, 2011, 04:02:50 AM
Larkin took too many 3s for WW (but he is tall-ish athletic and can play D, which is why he starts over McConnell or another PG IMO)...

Yeah, yeah I know. I just wish there was someone else...although against LC last night, I thought the McConnell, Gebbers, Lasisi backcourt was plenty big. Now against UPS maybe you need a bigger body to match up with big g/f like Shelton...

Since playball started it, prediction time!

UPS on the road
WW in a game that's closer than most thought it would be (and by that I mean Pirates by only 19)
PLU...not torn at all on this one
Whitman -> disclaimer: I think LC is better than Whitman, and I think they SHOULD beat LC. But that's the thing about the Pio's, just when you think they're gonna zig, they zag. LC with an 0-2 hole they'll have to dig themselves out of  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 03, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 10:56:03 AM

Playball,

Now that you are a former player, there are certain boundaries you cannot cross. No one that played for a Willamette Valley team has the right to complain about Spokane refs. Seriously!!!   That's like Bernie Madoff complaining that someone in the prison poker game conned him out of some money.

Buc,

Being an actual former player I see how and actually feel the results of home cooking at different gyms and parts of the states.  While Whitworth has been a powerhouse in the conference as of late, the Eastern Washington refs are something else!  Also bad at Whitman.  Refs can easily be influenced by the crowd, and lets be honest, you guys have the best crowd in the NW. 

Ps. How is David doing?  Playing anywhere?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: playball on December 03, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 10:56:03 AM

Playball,

Now that you are a former player, there are certain boundaries you cannot cross. No one that played for a Willamette Valley team has the right to complain about Spokane refs. Seriously!!!   That's like Bernie Madoff complaining that someone in the prison poker game conned him out of some money.

Buc,

Being an actual former player I see how and actually feel the results of home cooking at different gyms and parts of the states.  While Whitworth has been a powerhouse in the conference as of late, the Eastern Washington refs are something else!  Also bad at Whitman.  Refs can easily be influenced by the crowd, and lets be honest, you guys have the best crowd in the NW. 

Ps. How is David doing?  Playing anywhere?



From what I'm reading people are downplaying GF's win as Whitman not being as good as expected. Could it be that GF is better this year?  Seems like a great win for them.  Has anyone seen them play? Seems like they are just on the edge of being competitive for the playoffs most years.  Maybe this is their year?

Larkin can shoot well enough to keep people honest, but he's not not shooting with confidence. He looks like he's thinking too much. I'm sure if gets half a season under his belt as a starter he'll be good enough to give Felix some space.

David is a grad assistant with Hayford at Eastern Washington.  They are doing well.  First winning record since 2004.  He's working his butt off.  Proves my point that I went into medicine rather than coaching so I wouldn't have to work so hard.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2011, 05:45:11 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 01:19:19 PM
Proves my point that I went into medicine rather than coaching so I wouldn't have to work so hard.

Really? I went into medicine to get screwed by the government...  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 03, 2011, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: playball on December 03, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 10:56:03 AM

Playball,

Now that you are a former player, there are certain boundaries you cannot cross. No one that played for a Willamette Valley team has the right to complain about Spokane refs. Seriously!!!   That's like Bernie Madoff complaining that someone in the prison poker game conned him out of some money.

Buc,

Being an actual former player I see how and actually feel the results of home cooking at different gyms and parts of the states.  While Whitworth has been a powerhouse in the conference as of late, the Eastern Washington refs are something else!  Also bad at Whitman.  Refs can easily be influenced by the crowd, and lets be honest, you guys have the best crowd in the NW. 

Ps. How is David doing?  Playing anywhere?





David is a grad assistant with Hayford at Eastern Washington.  They are doing well.  First winning record since 2004.  He's working his butt off.  Proves my point that I went into medicine rather than coaching so I wouldn't have to work so hard.


Not playing anywhere?  Surprising!  I thought he would be overseas. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 04, 2011, 12:02:16 AM
Quote from: playball on December 03, 2011, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 01:19:19 PM
Quote from: playball on December 03, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2011, 10:56:03 AM



Not playing anywhere?  Surprising!  I thought he would be overseas.

Between the economy and the lockout, not many places available. A lot of guys that had been playing over there could not get contracts. Michael Taylor is playing in Germany.  David might go later. What are you doing?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 04, 2011, 01:13:59 AM
Whitworth wins 75-48

Lasisi led all scorers with 23. It's becoming another pick-your-poison situation with Whitworth (Or "choose your own adventure novel" if you're into that kinda thing). One night Gebbers goes off, then Felix kills LC down low, now Lasisi figures out he can do pretty much whatever he wants against most people at this level...

And wouldn't ya know, Larkin stays inside of 15 feet and he's incredibly effective! 3-4, 7 pts, 6 boards and did a good job on the GF Taylor most of the time he was guarding him.

Whitworth went so deep into the bench that even Ehlo got a bucket. Good for him.

In other NWC news:
UPS over Willamette 73-59
PLU 76 - Linfield 68
And it finally went final: Last night's spark plug Wells, single-handedly gives Whitman the game 82-80 Missionaries on a game winning 3 by Duckworth

Nailed the predictions from yesterday...except Whitworth only winning by 19. My bad.

LC is 0-2 in the conference...LCpio26 lol

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 04, 2011, 06:24:58 PM

[/quote]
Between the economy and the lockout, not many places available. A lot of guys that had been playing over there could not get contracts. Michael Taylor is playing in Germany.  David might go later. What are you doing?
[/quote]

Im playing baseball actually.  I got drafted by the Rangers so Ill see where that takes me.  Missing basketball for sure though.   

Rat, "LCPIO26....lol"  love it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 04, 2011, 08:44:33 PM
I thought LCpio26 could join me as a football player who pretended to know something about basketball...I'm more disappointed with him more than anything   :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 05, 2011, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: playball on December 04, 2011, 06:24:58 PM

Between the economy and the lockout, not many places available. A lot of guys that had been playing over there could not get contracts. Michael Taylor is playing in Germany.  David might go later. What are you doing?
[/quote]

Im playing baseball actually.  I got drafted by the Rangers so Ill see where that takes me.  Missing basketball for sure though.   

Rat, "LCPIO26....lol"  love it
[/quote]

So if you're in the Rangers organization, will you be playing in Spokane in the next year or two?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 05, 2011, 06:45:02 PM
Looking to the next league games, WW has the dreaded Tacoma trip the first weekend.  They've come away with 2 wins on this trip the last two years.  Both PLU and UPS seem like they are playing well right now. What's the chance the Buc's can sweep this one again this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 06, 2011, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on December 05, 2011, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: playball on December 04, 2011, 06:24:58 PM

Between the economy and the lockout, not many places available. A lot of guys that had been playing over there could not get contracts. Michael Taylor is playing in Germany.  David might go later. What are you doing?

Im playing baseball actually.  I got drafted by the Rangers so Ill see where that takes me.  Missing basketball for sure though.   

Rat, "LCPIO26....lol"  love it
[/quote]

So if you're in the Rangers organization, will you be playing in Spokane in the next year or two?
[/quote]

I really hope so!  I would rather be in either North Carolina or SOuth Carolina (High A or Low A) but whatever they put me Ill be happy. 


Buc,
WW wont lose to PLU.  Plu is tiny and WW will/should exploit that.  The UPS game is a different story.  Would Loofburrow be on Shelton?  If so, he will be in foul trouble since Shelton does a great job of creating foul pressure.  I would let him shoot over the top rather than give him the drive.  An average shooter.  The Gittens/Friedt matchup is one that will be the most interesting for me.  Gittens is head and shoulders more athletic however Felix is way more skilled and intelligent in his ability to stay out of foul trouble.  I see Gittens getting his 15 and 9 with a couple of blocks, but in only around 20 minutes since Felix will put him on the bench with fouls.  Lets see if Gittens can keep his cool.

Is this game being streamed at all?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 07, 2011, 02:39:27 AM
Quote from: playball on December 06, 2011, 07:35:56 PM

Buc,
WW wont lose to PLU.  Plu is tiny and WW will/should exploit that.  The UPS game is a different story.  Would Loofburrow be on Shelton?  If so, he will be in foul trouble since Shelton does a great job of creating foul pressure.  I would let him shoot over the top rather than give him the drive.  An average shooter.  The Gittens/Friedt matchup is one that will be the most interesting for me.  Gittens is head and shoulders more athletic however Felix is way more skilled and intelligent in his ability to stay out of foul trouble.  I see Gittens getting his 15 and 9 with a couple of blocks, but in only around 20 minutes since Felix will put him on the bench with fouls.  Lets see if Gittens can keep his cool.

Is this game being streamed at all?

UPS at UPS is going to be WW's toughest game in the league.  I know Whitman beat them, but it was due to a complete melt down at the end. Other than the melt down, no team challenged WW last year for a whole game except UPS.   Shelton is a tough match up for anyone.  He plays hard and it takes a very physical defensive effort to stop him.  Last year Whitworth negated him by putting Clay Gebbers and Taylor on him. I think Wade and Lasisi should be up to the task.  As for Felix vs Gittens, Felix wins this going away.  I think you are underestimating Felix's footwork and strength.  Felix looks a lot slower than he is.  He moves incredibly well and he is probably the strongest player in the league.  That won't be the match up that UPS wins. If UPS is going to win, the others will have step up.

When I think of the last game I watched you play, I didn't think you'd be the one to underestimate Felix.  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 07, 2011, 07:26:43 PM
We're having a discussion in the General Basketball section about home winning streaks... and think that Whitworth may have the current longest winning streak at home in the country.

We thought it was 41... can any WW fans confirm this number or correct it?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 08, 2011, 02:41:32 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 07, 2011, 02:39:27 AM
Quote from: playball on December 06, 2011, 07:35:56 PM

Buc,
WW wont lose to PLU.  Plu is tiny and WW will/should exploit that.  The UPS game is a different story.  Would Loofburrow be on Shelton?  If so, he will be in foul trouble since Shelton does a great job of creating foul pressure.  I would let him shoot over the top rather than give him the drive.  An average shooter.  The Gittens/Friedt matchup is one that will be the most interesting for me.  Gittens is head and shoulders more athletic however Felix is way more skilled and intelligent in his ability to stay out of foul trouble.  I see Gittens getting his 15 and 9 with a couple of blocks, but in only around 20 minutes since Felix will put him on the bench with fouls.  Lets see if Gittens can keep his cool.

Is this game being streamed at all?

UPS at UPS is going to be WW's toughest game in the league.  I know Whitman beat them, but it was due to a complete melt down at the end. Other than the melt down, no team challenged WW last year for a whole game except UPS.   Shelton is a tough match up for anyone.  He plays hard and it takes a very physical defensive effort to stop him.  Last year Whitworth negated him by putting Clay Gebbers and Taylor on him. I think Wade and Lasisi should be up to the task.  As for Felix vs Gittens, Felix wins this going away.  I think you are underestimating Felix's footwork and strength.  Felix looks a lot slower than he is.  He moves incredibly well and he is probably the strongest player in the league.  That won't be the match up that UPS wins. If UPS is going to win, the others will have step up.

When I think of the last game I watched you play, I didn't think you'd be the one to underestimate Felix.  :D

Was that the game at your place or the one you wanted to play in Corvallis?

Anyways, like Ive always said, you guys have great team defense.  Kind of a low blow.  -K if I could :)  I better keep posting.   I still think Gittens is the superior all around athlete between the two.  Im not saying UPS will win, but with how their team matches up they stand the best chance.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 08, 2011, 03:32:09 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 07, 2011, 07:26:43 PM
We're having a discussion in the General Basketball section about home winning streaks... and think that Whitworth may have the current longest winning streak at home in the country.

We thought it was 41... can any WW fans confirm this number or correct it?

Yes, the current home winning streak at Whitworth is 41. The Pirates had a longer one (45) back in the mid-to-late 90s, so it will be fun to see if this team can top that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 09, 2011, 01:45:26 PM
The boards all yours, folks.
LINFIELD used to be known as a basketball school in modern times.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 09, 2011, 02:13:35 PM
You know DOC, you could and your buddies could join...can't imagine it would be any fun, but we could use someone to talk to around here. Get's rather lonely
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 09, 2011, 11:02:50 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 09, 2011, 01:45:26 PM
The boards all yours, folks.
LINFIELD used to be known as a basketball school in modern times.

The program USED to have funding of an actual basketball school.  Weird how schools get caught up in one or two sports only.  With proper funding, Linfield would be able to recruit like the other teams in our conference
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 10, 2011, 10:03:53 PM
Anyone who has nothing better to do can watch the Whitworth v Montana Tech game tonight

Gameday media (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball/livefeed.htm)

I know nothing about M Tech...should be an interesting game. Whitworth by 14
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 11, 2011, 12:25:45 AM
Nice victory for the Bearcats tonight down in Eugene, coming from behind against Northwest Christian to steal a 64-63 win.  Ryan Meehan was fouled with two seconds left and nailed both free throws to win it - maybe a little bit of karma after PLU's overtime win in Salem last week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 11, 2011, 12:29:39 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 10, 2011, 10:03:53 PM
Anyone who has nothing better to do can watch the Whitworth v Montana Tech game tonight

Gameday media (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball/livefeed.htm)

I know nothing about M Tech...should be an interesting game. Whitworth by 14

Whitworth loses at HOME (streak snapped at 40) to Montana Tech (NAIA) by 10, 83-73.  Had a 2nd half lead and went cold for 5 minutes. A 14-0 run put the Pirates down 9 with 6 minutes to play.  Had it within 4 under a minute but MT hit free throws.

Withworth gets 8 free throws at home....WHAT?!  Loses the FT battle by 14 points with MT getting 21 makes vs Pirate 7.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 12, 2011, 05:52:24 PM
The first time in a long time that we see a chink in the armour at Whitworth! Lost to a team that Willamite beat earlier! That is very interesting! 8-) Now they know they can lose at home! Going to be interesting! I'm a little shocked!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 13, 2011, 02:37:49 AM
Quote from: etule on December 12, 2011, 05:52:24 PM
The first time in a long time that we see a chink in the armour at Whitworth! Lost to a team that Willamite beat earlier!

Not quite.  Montana Tech beat Willamette 79-74 in Salem back on November 25.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 13, 2011, 11:24:16 AM
Montana Tech did a good job of collapsing on Freidt without getting in foul trouble. And then managed to hit all of their open shots and most of the shots they took with a hand in their face(s). Nobody in the NWC has been able to do that for 2 halves against Whitworth over the past 2 years.

Whitworth got a little too reliant on the 3 once they got down. It worked in the first half, they were able to shoot themselves right back into the game, but in the second half (without Freidt due to foul trouble) they seemed to be content just launching from the outside. Without an inside presence, Tech was able to defend the perimeter better IMO forcing some bad shots. Loofburrow needed to do a better job of working inside out, at least forcing Tech to respect someone down in the post. Sometimes it seems like he forgets he's 6'7" playing DIII basketball. He might not be great in the post but he could have definitely taken some higher % shots inside the arc and at the very least opened up the outside for some of his teammates.

Defensively they looked soft/slow. I'd bet Logie gets on em this week in practice. The refs had them handcuffed for most of the game, but you gotta figure out a way to defend regardless. I haven't seen UPS play in awhile but the old teams, with their aggressive man defense, would have seen all 5 starters foul out with as many blocks, handchecks, etc. that were called (which we normally don't see in NWC games). The number of fouls called between the two teams wasn't a huge disparity, but it seemed that every foul called on Whitworth either led to a turnover or Tech FTs. They were all momentum killing/game changing fouls.

I hate the whole "losing is good for a team" line because it implies that you should want to lose a game or two each season. Nobody wants to lose games. But there is some truth to "learning" from your mistakes when you do lose. At the very least Logie learned how his team reacted to being down and having to play without guys due to foul trouble. He and his team will be better equipped to handle it in the future. I wouldn't be any more or less confident if I were an NWC team. Whitworth is still more talented than every other team in the league and if this game shows you anything, it's that shooting 70% isn't enough to pull away from Whitworth. The Pirates still took a 3 point lead into halftime.

Whitewater will be the next big challenge. Time to get onto the WIAC board and learn a little about the Warhawks. Then its on to Calvin who looks to have struggled this year but will undoubtedly be talented and well coached.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 13, 2011, 01:58:56 PM
Mis-read schedule on Montana Tec - Bearcat game. My bad but it was close! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 13, 2011, 05:05:37 PM
The Whitworth/Montana Tech game was frustrating for a Whitworth fan.  Rat is correct that Loofburrow needs to go inside, as does Lasisi.  The two of them took 20 3's between them.  Both of them physically overmatch anyone they will play against. They need to go inside, draw fouls and kick out. This team has more inside presence than last year's team and is not as skilled at the perimeter and yet they are shooting more 3's.  Not the kind of basketball that is going to win for you. That said, the two offensive calls on Felix might have made them shy about going inside. I don't know.

What I always liked about Whitworth the last 8 years is that they had great outside shooters, but they worked the ball inside and got the 3 off within the rhythm of the offense.  This year it doesn't look like they are working hard to get to the paint and they are firing the 3 too quickly.

Defensively, the man to man could not contain the penetration well.  The zone worked well at the end of the second half, but they never went back to it. However, they have good enough defenders that they shouldn't have to use a zone.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 13, 2011, 05:45:03 PM
Seems like the Ref's are focusing on charging fouls this year. I've seen more charges calls this year then all of last year or maybe it just seems like it!
The UPS- Whitworth game should be very good! Looking forward to it!
Looks like Claremont in the Sciac is tough this year. That would also be a great match up!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 13, 2011, 09:45:20 PM
Quote from: etule on December 13, 2011, 05:45:03 PM
Seems like the Ref's are focusing on charging fouls this year. I've seen more charges calls this year then all of last year or maybe it just seems like it!

That's interesting. You'd think it would be the other way with the new rules in place for this year. I would think you would see less now that you have that restricted arc area under the hoop...but how many DIII schools have it painted on? I know Whitworth doesn't so I guess it'd be tough on officials to determine where the arc is when you make the line imaginary.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 14, 2011, 02:43:26 PM
UPS doesn't ! Every year they pick something and focus on those type of calls! Check it out in the next game you watch!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 15, 2011, 11:59:30 AM
The ref's start the season making calls to the new focus, but by the middle to end of the season, its back to the same-old same-old.  Seems to happen every year.

There may be more balance this year from top to middle than in recent history.  Whitworth shows signs of non-dominance although they are still my favorite.  Whitman loses to GF, and has a prayer answered to beat LC (could/should be 0-2).  LC goes into Spokane and doesn't get blown out.  PU battles UPS all of the way but loses by only 6 (down 2 with :13 to go).  UPS undefeated and PLU in first at 2-0.  That's 7 of the 9 who could win on any given night.

Only Linf and Will appear to be out of the running at this point (both 2-7).

Sounds like the recipe for a great season!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 15, 2011, 01:28:51 PM
I agree! I think the NWC is the most balanced that I have seen in a long time. I would add Williamette to the mix . I think they will win some games! It is going to be fun to watch! It is also nice to see two teams in the top 25 from NWC!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 16, 2011, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 13, 2011, 11:24:16 AM
Whitewater will be the next big challenge. Time to get onto the WIAC board and learn a little about the Warhawks. Then its on to Calvin who looks to have struggled this year but will undoubtedly be talented and well coached.

I watched the online stream of Calvin vs. Willamette at Calvin.  The Knights are decent but really vulnerable down low.  If the Bearcats - who may be the worst three point shooting team I've ever seen - hadn't jacked up 28 threes in that game, they probably would have won.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 16, 2011, 04:05:41 PM
Thanks BP. As with most games, Freidt staying out of foul trouble will be big then. Even though it's over on the west side (Mercer Island), I think the travel will obviously be tougher on Calvin than it will be on the Pirates.

WW nearly knocked off UWSP. That game still looks like the toughest left for the Pirates. Then probably @UPS and @LC. I still don't have a lot of faith in LC, but they are undoubtedly talented and have a lot of time between now and when they play Whitworth to improve.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 16, 2011, 09:06:38 PM
PLU playing Eastern Washington on Big Sky TV.  free video after registration.  6:00pm tip (now)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 17, 2011, 03:07:52 AM
PLU lost to Eastern Washington by 11.  Were only down by 3 with 5:55 left.  Gave them a game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 18, 2011, 01:26:19 PM
Whitman crushed Northwestern (Minn) yesterday. Sounds like Northwestern couldn't keep up with the Missionaries offensive and defensive pressure. Would like to see Freidt get involved on more possessions tonight. If nothing else I think he should touch the ball in the post while guys move to get shots off ball. Would be nice to see Loofburrow score inside the 3 pt line but I'm not holding my breath...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 18, 2011, 08:27:00 PM
Is Felix the only inside threat for WW?  Without that threat their shooters will struggle if Felix gets in any foul trouble.  Seems like this years squad is a little thin on the bench. 

As for whoever printed what I had previously posted and sent it to Linfield's AD: thanks for the recognition! :). If you have issue I'm easy to get a hold of. 


With preseason games nearly over how does everyone feel about their earlier picks?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 18, 2011, 10:26:49 PM
Looked like WW had trouble with Northwestern. Where was Loofburrow?  Not in the box score.  Only shot 23 threes so they were more balanced. Looking forward to seeing an eyewitness report on here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 19, 2011, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 18, 2011, 10:26:49 PM
Looked like WW had trouble with Northwestern. Where was Loofburrow?  Not in the box score.  Only shot 23 threes so they were more balanced. Looking forward to seeing an eyewitness report on here.

Loofburrow and Ehlo both have small stress fractures in a foot and are wearing boots right now.  Jack may be available for the Mercer Island game, not sure about Austin though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 20, 2011, 07:10:45 PM
Quote from: playball on December 18, 2011, 08:27:00 PM
With preseason games nearly over how does everyone feel about their earlier picks?

Preseason games ended a month ago, dude. This is the regular season. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 20, 2011, 10:58:44 PM
Playball:

Bet you won't fall into that pre-season hole again.  You aren't the first on this board to get Mr. Sager's correction and won't be the last.

So far...  Whitworth has come down a notch or two, but is still my favorite.  I doubt they will go undefeated again.  Injuries may be a problem for them this year.
Whitman has also dropped, with a loss to GF at home, but I still see them top 3.
LC has the pieces, but a new coach could be a problem for them.  I think they are capable of beating anyone, but will also lose to someone they shouldn't.  Same old LC.
UPS is better than I thought they would be, and could finish 1 thru 3 easily (I had them 4).
GF was on the web-cam today and they won in OT.  They have some players (Taylor is good), but I don't see them too high in the final standings.
Your Linfield is in trouble.  The problem is not enough money, it is coaching.  When they get a new coach, look out!
Pacific has a good one, and they are going to cause some trouble.  But they lost 3 starters, two to injury and one quit school, so they will be a notch out of the playoff race.
PLU and Wil will struggle, and finish in the lower tier.
But this year will see a lot of teams losing to teams with worse records.  It will be interesting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on December 23, 2011, 03:23:19 PM
I think Whitworth is the team but the big guys looks hurt to me. He is limping! Not good! Other than that it is wide open. It is going to be crazy! But fun!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 30, 2011, 12:24:12 AM
Big night for Felix (27pts and 11rebs) in the win over Calvin. Dustin has 16 and 8 as well.  Coach Logies returns to alma mater Mercer Island high - where he has never lost a game!  Good alumni turn out as well.  Was fun to hang with the guys after the game too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 31, 2011, 04:22:41 PM
When is Loofburrow expected back?  Anyone know?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 31, 2011, 10:33:00 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on December 31, 2011, 04:22:41 PM
When is Loofburrow expected back?  Anyone know?
When I asked him on Thursday night, he thought about 1 more week...so maybe for the Tacoma series next weekend.  BTW - Zach Payne is also in a boot with a similar injury.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 06, 2012, 05:49:54 PM
Lot's of big games this weekend. It is going to be exciting!  :) Board is pretty quiet!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 06, 2012, 10:26:27 PM
I know I know, cutting it close!   Here are my picks for tonight and tomorrow night!

Whitworth over PLU. closer than in years past but Whitworth is too big. 74-65
Willamette over Pacific. Pac seriously lost to New Hope Christian?!  79-68
UPS over Whitman.  Size, speed, and overall skill win out.  85-76
Linfield over L&C with a caveat.  If Batuik gets more than 15 shots, Linfield will win.  If not they lose by 10.

Saturday
The Grandaddy of them all part 1!  UPS over Whitworth.  I have been saying this all along, Gittens (if not in the doghouse) will be a major factor.  This is especially true with the WW bigs being injured.  76-73
PLU over Whitman.  Whitman goes 0-2 on this trip.  PLU is scrappy, pulls it out in a close one.  79-77
Linfield over Willamette.  Linfield goes 2-0 on the weekend?!  One can wish.  Combined 40 T.O.'s in this game with Linfield winning 75-70
Pacific over George Fox.  I just don't like Fox... ;)     67-60 


Linfield goes up against two kids this weekend that should have been at Linfield....Ross Erickson and Taylor Mounts.  Dang
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 07, 2012, 01:32:13 AM
Linfield gave it a good run!  Fell a little short at the end but entertaining none the less.  LCPio, whats your take?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 08, 2012, 12:03:20 AM
I have been real busy and didn't post predictions of my own so I won't pile on too much, but playball pulled an lcpio26 with his UPS pick.

Whitworth tried to lose the PLU game, but quickly learned that if they make FT's then nobody in this conference should beat them. Much better job tonight. Gittens was nowhere to be found in the boxscore, would be interesting to hear analysis from somebody who watched the game.

Whitworth ought to rest Loofburrow as long as it takes to get him 100%. Michael Taylor had a solid game tonight, and I don't see him in the starting lineup as an issue. Stress fx means overuse, no need to come back before it's healed and continue the overuse. Hopefully it isn't in the 5th met, those seem to wind up malunion too often.

Anyways, good weekend for the Pirates. Coming out of the Tacoma trip 2-0 is all you can ask for. Especially down 2 starters...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 08, 2012, 12:03:33 AM
Pirates get it done at UPS 80-67!!  Great game with WW defense in second half being the difference.  UPS was crazy good from 3 in first half but couldn't keep it going 2nd half.  7-9 in 1st versun 1-8 in 2nd.  41-38 UPS at half.  Lasisi and Freidt both with 21.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 08, 2012, 12:06:49 AM
Gittens picked up his 4th with 14 minutes to play...didn't make the box score til 2 minutes left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 08, 2012, 12:35:54 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 08, 2012, 12:03:20 AM
I have been real busy and didn't post predictions of my own so I won't pile on too much, but playball pulled an lcpio26 with his UPS pick.

WHAT?! Not even!   I'll eat my words and even go as far as to say that Whitworth has impressed me tonight (as if they hadn't before).  Double OT on the road and then go and beat a good ranked opponent, wow.  AND Felix dominated that match up even with playing HEAVY minutes this weekend.  Well earned rest is in store for the big fella!

I own up to my bad picks! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 08, 2012, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: playball on January 08, 2012, 12:35:54 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 08, 2012, 12:03:20 AM
I have been real busy and didn't post predictions of my own so I won't pile on too much, but playball pulled an lcpio26 with his UPS pick.

WHAT?! Not even!   I'll eat my words and even go as far as to say that Whitworth has impressed me tonight (as if they hadn't before).  Double OT on the road and then go and beat a good ranked opponent, wow.  AND Felix dominated that match up even with playing HEAVY minutes this weekend.  Well earned rest is in store for the big fella!

I own up to my bad picks!

Yeah, you're right. You didn't disappear like our pioneer friend...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 09, 2012, 12:52:15 PM
The Pirates sweep Tacoma with two starters injured.  Would not have predicted that.  What's their next biggest challenge?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 09, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
I don't think that they do any better with the two starters. Michael Taylor was very efficient down low! WW shot 70% from the field in first half and 62% overall. Pretty impressive! That being said if PLU makes their free throws they win! woulda coulda shouda! I was at that game it was very exciting!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 09, 2012, 05:24:14 PM
I saw the Whitman game and I remember so posts from last year about how Lunt cannot win with his own recruits and he won with the old coaches recruits. I think that argument still is wrong because he still had to coach those kids and he was an assistant and helped get those recruits to UPS. With that aside, now he has nothing but his own recruits and they are doing very well. What is everyone's thoughts now since a few of you thought he would struggle? I think he and his staff have done a great job at getting top recruits in and getting the right fits for what he wants to do.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2012, 07:40:05 PM
Quote from: etule on January 09, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
I don't think that they do any better with the two starters. Michael Taylor was very efficient down low! WW shot 70% from the field in first half and 62% overall. Pretty impressive! That being said if PLU makes their free throws they win! woulda coulda shouda! I was at that game it was very exciting!

You realize PLU us shooting 69% on the season? PLU doesn't make FT's (for whatever reason). But they made up for only shooting 61% at the line by shooting 52% from 3. Besting their season average behind the arc is the only reason they were in the game. I still think the Lutes finish 4th, at least I think that was my prediction.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 09, 2012, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2012, 07:40:05 PM
Quote from: etule on January 09, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
I don't think that they do any better with the two starters. Michael Taylor was very efficient down low! WW shot 70% from the field in first half and 62% overall. Pretty impressive! That being said if PLU makes their free throws they win! woulda coulda shouda! I was at that game it was very exciting!

You realize PLU us shooting 69% on the season? PLU doesn't make FT's (for whatever reason). But they made up for only shooting 61% at the line by shooting 52% from 3. Besting their season average behind the arc is the only reason they were in the game. I still think the Lutes finish 4th, at least I think that was my prediction.

PLU is average at FT shooting for the conference, which doesn't help when Whitworth is tops at almost 80% (which is unreal for a team!)  But Rat, I don't how you can say it was their three point shooting that kept them in it.  The numbers were nearly identical for both teams making that stat a wash. Looking at the stat sheet from that game that pops out to me is Whitworth's TO's, which is higher than expected from them.  Was PLU pressing or anything or was it just an off night?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2012, 11:29:16 PM
I didn't see the game. I just noticed that PLU shot a higher 3pt % than normal. So FT's didn't doom them anymore than 3pt helped them. The game went to 2 OT, most stats will be a "wash". I was simply looking at what PLU did that was a lot better/worse than what they have been doing all season. The only stat I could find that was "better" than normal (at least significantly better) was their 3pt %. And since it was a 3pt at the buzzer that sent it into OT, well...

As far as TO's are concerned, while it was an uncharacteristic night for Whitworth, forcing 17 in one game is nothing new for PLU, and having around 11 is also "average".

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 11, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
Keandre,

My opinion of Lunt has not changed and will not change until I see something different from UPS.  I'll be waiting for your next post after the PLU game gets over in a few minutes...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 11, 2012, 01:00:37 AM
Well, this is interesting.  PLU just beat UPS by 18!  Wow...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 12, 2012, 09:09:16 AM
Keandre...Keandre...Keandre?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Sa8rbxN_wNU%2FTaemVfegTNI%2FAAAAAAAAAOM%2F0srjB4hjWLo%2Fs1600%2Fbueller_stein.jpg&hash=a6db6ac5e0afc4d138c6518159a471e18b782ceb)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 12, 2012, 10:07:50 AM
Log jam with a bunch of teams at 2-2!  Who wants to make playoffs!?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 12, 2012, 01:38:57 PM
PLU played the best game I have ever seen them play. Give them credit. They made big plays and UPS could not get it going. They won't be able to shoot like that at UPS. I am looking forward to seeing this weekends games unfold. Lunt will have his boys ready for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 13, 2012, 10:35:11 AM
They shot worse from 3 than they have been all season. Did UPS press? That would explain a higher than normal FG%.

But PLU's shooting %'s have nothing to do with the fact that Gittens was 1-6 with 4 points and 3 boards. Or the fact that several UPS bench players hucked up more shots than a few of the starters that should be doing the "hucking"...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 13, 2012, 02:10:29 PM
PLU plays pretty good defense! UPS just could not find the right combination. UPS looked flat! That being said they have talent and will win a lot of games!
PLU has played well all year and they(UPS) caught them on a night that they were on! I agree with Keandre , give PLU credit they are pretty good!
They did press some not really a factor but it did make for some open shots!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 13, 2012, 02:29:15 PM
With being ranked in the nation, it comes with getting every teams best that night. They want to knock you off and show they belong. With that said, when you are ranked, you have to know that you are getting each teams best and there is a sense of urgency on the ranked teams part to execute and play at a high level. That night, UPS did not have that urgency and PLU did, especially coming off a weekend where they lost 2 at home. UPS is very good and talented, they wil win a lot of games but they cannot just show up and win, they have to play hard which is what got them to this point. There were games where Gittens didn't score much or didn't play much and UPS still won. They are deep and have the best bench in the league. Very excited to see this weekends games. Who has the predictions?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 14, 2012, 12:28:25 AM
Got busy tonight. Sorry to let you down Keandre, I'll have predictions for tomorrow nights games.

PLU is about to beat LC. I'm gonna dig my old post but I believe I said something about LC having to fight PLU for a playoff spot. Where are the Pio fans at?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 14, 2012, 01:14:03 AM
Whitworth wins 65-55

Impressed with Pacific. Very patient team. Had some nice half court sets, got some great looks. Just didn't have the horses to keep up with the Pirates.

Lassisi needs to settle down. Great player, but hasnt been very consistent lately. He makes some plays where you realize that nobody else belongs in the same gym as him from an athletic standpoint. Then he turns the ball over a few times and takes a few bad shots. If he can cut back on the mistakes and Whitworth gets healthy I like their chances to make a nice playoff run. The way they've played lately though makes me wonder if they can get past CMS??? Oh well, plenty of season left
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 14, 2012, 01:46:15 PM
UPS  v   George Fox
Gittens has no excuse in this one. GF gets all of its production from it's guards, and I'd say that GF has an advantage there. But Shelton, Jobe, and Gittens should be too much for the GF frontcourt to contain. UPS wins.

Pacific  v  Whitman
Bad match-up for the Boxers on the second night of the dreaded Eastern Washington trip. Whitman dictates the pace, Pacific gets really uncomfortable, Whitman wins.

Linfield  v  Whitworth
Wouldn't be shocked if this is close for 30-35 minutes. Despite Linfield being 1-4 in conference play, they seem to be improving. They were in 2 games recently that I would have thought they had no business keeping close (LC and Whitman). All that said, Whitworth is still the most talented team in the conference and Logie has proven to be a capable coach (we'll see how his recruiting stacks up over the next couple of seasons). Whitworth cruises late.

Willamette  v LC
Sorry Willamette, while I think LC is the biggest underachiever in the NWC, the Bearcats aren't going to pick up their first conference "W" tonight. LC in a route.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 14, 2012, 01:55:41 PM
I like your picks Rat. I'll jump on your pick bandwagon since they seem bulletproof.

My Cats ALMOST pulled it off last night!  I figured that if they could pull this one off and then possibly sweep this next weekend that fourth spot just might be there.  Real close, and putting it together.  Lets hopefully see a second half surge after next weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 14, 2012, 02:38:37 PM
Heartbreaking loss for Willamette last night.  Malley was using quickness to get to the rim at will, and Dart was punishing Fox down low with his size.  But Taylor's baseline jumber with time running out was so bad that it went all the way over the rim to a Fox player on the other side who put it in for the tie.  Then with a chance to hold for the last shot in overtime, Trevor Bos gets called for an over-and-back.  Ugly stuff.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 14, 2012, 05:54:30 PM
Quote from: playball on January 14, 2012, 01:55:41 PM
I like your picks Rat. I'll jump on your pick bandwagon since they seem bulletproof.

My Cats ALMOST pulled it off last night!  I figured that if they could pull this one off and then possibly sweep this next weekend that fourth spot just might be there.  Real close, and putting it together.  Lets hopefully see a second half surge after next weekend.

Pretty easy slate of games to pick but anything could happen. I would have laughed at anyone who said PLU would take Whit into OT...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 14, 2012, 08:13:24 PM
No David Micheals in the Whitman Linfield boxscore...Hurt?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 15, 2012, 01:06:46 AM
Whitworth escapes 65-61. Batiuk is the best freshman in the conference. He's a tough matchup since he shoots so well from outside, but Whitworth's perimeter D needs to improve across the entire lineup (maybe with the exception of Lassisi). Opponents are hitting 43% of their shots from behind the arc, and tonight was no different. Tough weekend for the Wildcats, but if they can continue to play as well as they have lately then they'll finish a game or 2 away from making the playoffs. That is pretty remarkable considering the hole they've dug themselves. All that being said, I don't think the Wildcats will play consistently enough to do so. I think there will be a bad loss or two against teams they should beat (GF, Pacific, Will).

Whitman handled Pacific 81-66

George Fox beat UPS 86-80. Didn't see this coming, but I gotta say I feel a slight tingling in my loins. Can't wait to hear what excuse Keandre tries to use this week. My money is on "team-wide flu". Playball, what's your guess?

LC beats Willamette 87-74
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BruinFan on January 15, 2012, 11:39:50 AM
I have to admit I follow the NWC very casually on the men's side and had no idea that UPS was ranked in the top 25. Now that they are 3-3 in conference I'm wondering from the regulars on this board if the voters have got it wrong. I suspect they will drop out of the poll on Monday, but I think they should have never broke into the rankings in the first place.

I think their 10-0 start had a lot to do with breaking into the rankings, so I looked up the current overall records of the 8 teams they played to go 10-0 (playing Portland Bible and Evergreen State twice each). I could not find a record for New Hope Christian out of Eugene, OR, so the combined record of the other 7 teams is currently 31-74. U-W River Falls (12-4) and Pacific (8-7) are the only teams currently over .500 from that opening 10 game schedule. 

Do they have players out with injuries right now? I don't know why the Loggers were ranked other than a deceiving 10-0 record from a soft schedule.

It looks like another exciting year in the Northwest Conference where you have to play well every game or the underdog is going to beat you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 15, 2012, 12:14:38 PM
When you combine a good program with a name that the d3.com games recognize and a soft schedule like you alluded to, you get a top 25 ranking. With the success of UPS, LC, and Whitworth over the last 7-8 years I think the NWC is regarded as one of the better conferences in the country. That helped UPS too.

As far as I know UPS isn't dealing with any major injuries. Pacific was dealt a big blow at the beginning of the season and Whitworth has 2 starters and a key bench guy (all forwards) currently out. Aside from that I haven't heard of any other big losses in the conference.

You watch the GF v UPS game last night? Looked like Gittens got his but UPS couldn't stop Taylor, Sanchez, Grant, etc. Of course box scores never tell the whole story. George Fox also led basically the entire game (as much as 21) so it doesn't seem like it was a "fluke".
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BruinFan on January 15, 2012, 12:37:27 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 15, 2012, 12:14:38 PM

You watch the GF v UPS game last night? Looked like Gittens got his but UPS couldn't stop Taylor, Sanchez, Grant, etc. Of course box scores never tell the whole story. George Fox also led basically the entire game (as much as 21) so it doesn't seem like it was a "fluke".

Thanks for the response. I did not see enough of the game to provide any insights to how it played out. George Fox did maintain a healthly lead throughout the game, but struggled to close it out as UPS made a late run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 15, 2012, 04:38:54 PM
3 FREE THROWS for LINFIELD?!  YOU SERIOUS!?  This is a little... ok, VERY skewed!  Unreal.... 
OK, now for actual stat reading and my two cents.  RAT, Batiuk will be the best player to come through Linfield in a long time.  The way he shoots the ball is fantastic and he will only get better at creating his own shot.  Look for him to be an All American in the next couple years, not yet though as his rebound numbers need to come up.  Good passer too. 
For your perimeter defense comment I say "Where is this years Bo Gregg when you need him to guard whoever is hot for the other team?!"  There always seems to be one, maybe two guys that step up defensively for the Pirates.  I think this is when Loofburrow is truly missed since he matches up better with a 4 man where Felix the 5.  3 free throws though? Wow.

I like to see the progress this team has made and I think it starts with the leadership exhibited by some of the players who are new to that kind of role.  Dotes makes the right calls for players who are on the floor and what sets they run, its dependent on thee players to execute.  Great job by Doty and the program yesterday, 3 fts... wow

Now onto other teams...
George Fox upsets UPS.  As you said Rat, Gittens got his against a very small team.  However, what happened to Shelton?!  Fouled out with only 3 fga's?  Hmm, kid seems in a funk.  Gittens with only one block, 3 fouls. Either Fox stayed away from the drive, were able to float em up there and make some, or he just isnt going for them anymore.  The last idea is nonsense!  The guy is always going to go for swats!  Good for Fox though, Im shocked they did it.

LC beats Willamette
Mounts finally put together a good game.  A very solid player who has been playing frustrated this year, its nice to see him back on track with 21 and 9 boards.  The main thing with Willamette that just doesn't make any sense to me is why isn't Sean Dart getting more than 7 shots a game?  He shoots a very high percentage and Willamette needs his inside scoring.
For the LC side of things....Where is LCPIO26?  5-14 for Holliins, I know Im kind of a hater, but goodness.  And knowing his game, majority of those are difficult shots.  Main reason why he gets away with these shots and they win is their ability to get offensive rebounds.  16 of them last night.  I dont think this will be a season long trend however.

Whitman "flattens" Pacific
A day after going beserk on Linfield, the whitman big Ben Eisenhardt gets held to 8 and 5 by a SMALL pacific team. Frustrating to see.  Whitman is a tough squad but I think that if you play them man to man tight with no help off of Clark, they will be in trouble.  A lot of drive and kick to create for them.  Not invincible by any means.  Another night where 15 guys play and no David Michaels, any info anyone?   Shaw playing very few minutes, I never would have seen that coming these last few years.
Pacific...continues to be small. And that doesn't bode well in this conference as of this moment.

PLU has the night off, good for them.

3free throws... at least the valley schools get hosed in the valley too whereas Whitworth and Whitman(more so Whitworth) gets help at home
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 15, 2012, 04:43:10 PM
And since you called out Keandre Rat, I think he won't make any excuses except for the team all suffering from the long trip from Tacoma...and maybe possible paper cuts!   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 15, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
Quote from: playball on January 15, 2012, 04:38:54 PM
3 FREE THROWS for LINFIELD?!  YOU SERIOUS!?  This is a little... ok, VERY skewed!  Unreal.... 
OK, now for actual stat reading and my two cents.  RAT, Batiuk will be the best player to come through Linfield in a long time.  The way he shoots the ball is fantastic and he will only get better at creating his own shot.  Look for him to be an All American in the next couple years, not yet though as his rebound numbers need to come up.  Good passer too. 
For your perimeter defense comment I say "Where is this years Bo Gregg when you need him to guard whoever is hot for the other team?!"  There always seems to be one, maybe two guys that step up defensively for the Pirates.  I think this is when Loofburrow is truly missed since he matches up better with a 4 man where Felix the 5.  3 free throws though? Wow.

Playball, the numbers were skewed (Linfield had 7 fouls to Whitworth's 0 at one point in the second half) but I didn't think that was necessarily wrong. Batiuk took a majority of the shots during that stretch in the second half, and most were from 8-20 feet out. Linfield was hot from outside, so the jumpers led to few fouls being called on WW. With that said, WW decided to drive every possession to begin the second half (mostly Lasisi, who can get to the rim against anyone in this league) and when they did, they were fouled. So while it looks like homer calls on the stat sheet, it was really style of play that led to those numbers.

The "Bo Gregg" on this team: his name is Mack Larkin, but he has been out lately with injury. Once Felix got in foul trouble, Logie substituted Felix in on offense and Michael Taylor (NTMT) on defense to blanket Batiuk. Mack would have helped greatly.

My general thoughts from the game:
I was really impressed with Linfield, in particular Batiuk who came to play. Whitworth was still without Jack, Zach and Mack (hopefully at least Jack will be back for Whitman on Tuesday), so it's a little easier to focus the defense on "the big three" in Gebbers, Friedt, and Lasisi.

Lasisi needs to stop taking so many jumpers. Like I said earlier, Lasisi can get to the hoop against ANYONE in this league, so I hope Logie spreads it out and lets him drive more often. If the defense collapses like Linfield did late in the second half, he can kick it to a shooter, or make Felix's defender choose. Wade has been in a bit of slump lately, which has led to teams focusing on Felix (Linfield double-or-triple teamed him every time he touched the ball) who will still get at least double-digit points/rebounds every game. That means the role players like McConnell, McCargar, and Taylor will have to step up. We've seen McConnell and Taylor do it a few times such as last night when McConnell hit some HUGE shots, still waiting for McCargar. McCargar is really hit or miss: he will sometimes nail a huge shot, and then miss badly on a wide-open look.

Big game Tuesday vs. Whitman. I'm not sure Whitworth has the depth to run with the Missionaries, much less the offensive firepower, without Jack and Mack. Even though it's Jan Term and most students are studying abroad, I hope the students that are in Spokane come out in droves and are loud. The Bucs will need every ounce of energy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 15, 2012, 11:05:50 PM
Quote from: playball on January 15, 2012, 04:38:54 PM
3 FREE THROWS for LINFIELD?!  YOU SERIOUS!?  This is a little... ok, VERY skewed!  Unreal.... 

3free throws... at least the valley schools get hosed in the valley too whereas Whitworth and Whitman(more so Whitworth) gets help at home

Fun reading about the games.  The NWC is as wild as ever.  WW still winning, but less of a margin.  Should be a fun year.  I do have to comment on Playball's comments on the refs. My family and friends have had a lot of experience coaching and playing in the NWC and never has anyone from a Willamette Valley team had the audacity to complain about the refs anywhere else.  When my brother was coaching at Linfield he even said he didn't like playing up in Spokane because the refs were bad, but even handed and that we got screwed badly when we came to the Valley.  Even more telling was standing next to Hugh Campbell when he was coaching at Whitworth and we were playing Willamette.  He called the ref who was 5 feet from him a cheating bastard.  The ref didn't throw a flag, kick him out or anything.  I turned to my teammate and asked why the ref didn't do something and he said, "He can't throw a flag when coach is just stating facts."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 16, 2012, 12:57:32 PM
The comment about the ref not giving a tech to the coach because he was statiung facts reminds me of Jim Valvano of NC State asking the ref if he could T him up for what he was thinking! Ref said no so he said" I think you stink" you all know whats happenned! LOL

League is balanced this year much more than it has been in the last few years. WW is definately missing Taylor! Lasisi is very good but he does not create for his teamates like Taylor! I thought Whitman would be more dominant than they have but very dangerous team!

That big kid for Lindfield is going to be a beast! Had a chance to win the game on a last second 3! Like to see a 6'11" kid get busy down low to tie the game! Fun game to watch! WW always seem to hit the big shots down the stretch! Good team!

UPS is a total mystery to me! Don't know whats up there! Shelton does seem bored!Crazy!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 16, 2012, 06:34:16 PM
Re: the L&C/Willamette game, I think Taylor Mounts might have drawn some inspiration from Cam Mitchell, who was in attendance Saturday night.  He showed more decisiveness in driving to the bucket rather than settling for mid-range jumpers and threes.  Definitely good to see.

I agree that the Bearcats need to feature Sean Dart more, and there have been multiple times over the last few games where I've seen him calling for the ball and the point guards - Malley and Bos, I'm looking at you - just don't send it to him.  In the staff's defense though, I think Dart might be on limited minutes: he missed the first few games of the season with an Achilles injury that was originally projected to sideline him for the entire season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 16, 2012, 10:22:52 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 15, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
Playball, the numbers were skewed (Linfield had 7 fouls to Whitworth's 0 at one point in the second half) but I didn't think that was necessarily wrong. Batiuk took a majority of the shots during that stretch in the second half, and most were from 8-20 feet out. Linfield was hot from outside, so the jumpers led to few fouls being called on WW. With that said, WW decided to drive every possession to begin the second half (mostly Lasisi, who can get to the rim against anyone in this league) and when they did, they were fouled. So while it looks like homer calls on the stat sheet, it was really style of play that led to those numbers.

Ok, I talked to some of the guys and they said they needed to stop settling for midrange as well.  However, you bring up the point that at one point it was 7-0 in the second half and STILL ONLY 3 free throws?!  No hand checks, no anything?  Still, a little hard to think that is possible.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 16, 2012, 10:24:58 PM
And Im happy this board is starting to heat up a little bit!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 16, 2012, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: playball on January 16, 2012, 10:22:52 PM
However, you bring up the point that at one point it was 7-0 in the second half and STILL ONLY 3 free throws?!

I assure you the refs did everything they could to even it out. In the last 4 minutes or so the refs called every ticky tack thing you could think of on the Pirates, and let Felix get molested under the hoop while he was on offense. They simply ran out of time.

If you've ever heard a Bob Castle broadcast you'd know he doesn't criticize officials and will agree and disagree with calls made against both teams. He is an official himself and is very fair to the one's working the basketball games. That being said, he was borderline upset near the end of the game as Whitworth was given just about 6 fouls on 6 consecutive possessions.

Had Linfield been a little more aggressive going to the hoop, they would have got the calls. But why do that and take FT's when you can't miss from 15 feet and out???  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 17, 2012, 11:08:33 AM
UPS is fine, they lost some games to teams who are playing well right now. It is tough to win a league game on the road. Great job by Fox who shot the 3 well Saturday which proved to be too much for UPS to come back from. They did make it a game after they got into a rhythm. No excuses for the loss except they have to play better from the jump and not let teams get hot early. UPS is struggling right now but there is a lot of time to get well, especially with 4 home games coming up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 17, 2012, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: playball on January 15, 2012, 04:43:10 PM
And since you called out Keandre Rat, I think he won't make any excuses except for the team all suffering from the long trip from Tacoma...and maybe possible paper cuts!   ;)

This was actually pretty funny to me. Not often there is a quality joke on this board. Great work lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 17, 2012, 04:52:01 PM
I agree that UPS can get well in a hurry! Something is haywire however! Not sure whats up! Dangerous team! I think tonights game ww vs whit should be good. I think WW handles them easily!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 17, 2012, 07:27:59 PM
QuoteWhen you combine a good program with a name that the d3.com games recognize and a soft schedule like you alluded to, you get a top 25 ranking.
PC not gonna like that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 17, 2012, 08:19:23 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on January 17, 2012, 07:27:59 PM
QuoteWhen you combine a good program with a name that the d3.com games recognize and a soft schedule like you alluded to, you get a top 25 ranking.
PC not gonna like that.

That's why I own a Mac.

;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 17, 2012, 08:35:26 PM
Good one!
Tried to + but I did recently.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 18, 2012, 03:43:59 AM
Just got back from the WW/WM game. Good game tonight. I hate Bridgeland, but he's a helluva coach and made some good adjustments at half, mainly switching out from 2-2-1 to a 2-1-2 trap which led to more TOs from WW in the 2nd half. WW was cold from outside (5-25) yet kept shooting even though most of their points came off attacking the press and taking it strong to the rim. There is no Riley on this team who is near automatic, except Gebbers, but he's too small to create his own shot.

Playball and anyone else who thinks WW refs are homers would have enjoyed the reversal tonight as WW got absolutely hosed. Logie, who I don't think I've ever seen have more than a mild conversation with a ref, not only lost and threw his jacket into the stands, but he also got T'd up. They weren't horrible in the first half, but there was about a 8-10 minute stretch in the second when they were absolutely horrendous. I didn't recognize any of the refs (rumor is that they were high school refs--which wouldn't surprise in the least).

With that said, the turning point came with four minutes left when David Michaels was subbed back in and hit a big three to go up 61-58. He then got "fouled" on a three-point play (horrible call, especially when Gebbers got run over on a 3 a few possessions earlier with no call) and hit all three FTs. Next time down the floor he hit another three and all of a sudden WM is up 9. Bad call in-between two huge shots. Gotta give credit for those shots and for getting Felix in foul trouble. WM made WW's role players beat them and they couldn't (McCargar and McConnell were a combined 2-12).

Hopefully the Bucs can find a way to win down in Walla Walla, and hopefully by that time Jack (who played about 90 seconds tonight) and Zach (who didn't suit up) will be back. They will need those two guys. They will also need to stop settling for jumpers when they clearly aren't falling. Credit to WM for staying tough despite a halftime deficit.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 18, 2012, 07:27:59 AM
Well, they got caught up playing Whitman's game (in the second half) IMO. They took some bad shots early in the shot clock and Whitman was able to take the ball out of the hands of Gebbers and force the young guys to beat them. If this team wants to make a run, then McCargar and McConnell have to play better. McCargar needs to start making open shots and McConnell needs to stop making dumb turnovers.

I'm still impressed with the way this team has played as banged up as they have been lately, but last night was bad. Bridgeland is a good coach (no matter what UPS fans think of the almighty Lunt), but Whitworth is a better team than Whitman, even without Loofburrow and needs to win that game at home. If anything, just so teams don't get confident in their own ability to knock off the Pirates come NWC tourney time.

If I plagiarized Pinecone or didn't make any sense, I apologize. It's 0430. I hate early mornings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 18, 2012, 08:25:33 AM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 18, 2012, 03:43:59 AM
(rumor is that they were high school refs--which wouldn't surprise in the least).

They had to have been. How else to they not know the rule differences between high school and college? Bucket made before the charge on Gebber's should have counted. Instead refs wave it off (like you would in HS) and Logie gets T'd up when he argues (correctly).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2012, 06:25:00 PM
Too bad Montana Tech beat Whitworth, then Bridgeland could be responsible for ruining last year's perfect regular season, the home league game streak, AND the home winning streak. Then I could hate him even more--if possible. Just kidding.  I actually like the guy, but why does he have to get his team to play so well against my Bucs?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 18, 2012, 10:44:49 PM
Anyone know the the kind of budget Whitman is able to work with?  Just curious.  And holy cow! WW gets hosed at home by their own offi, oop I mean the officials?! Can not be so and I'm curious to what the investigation turns up! ;).

In all seriousness, looks like ww can't handle the speed of Whitman or withstand the 4 minute burst Whitman has about once a game.  Congrats to the missionaries.  I hate saying that. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 19, 2012, 12:59:29 AM
Quote from: playball on January 18, 2012, 10:44:49 PM
Anyone know the the kind of budget Whitman is able to work with?  Just curious.

They recently got a $3 mil donation and I've heard from multiple people that the men's b-ball program got a pretty nice chunk of that. I've heard different numbers so it's hard to speculate, but I don't think their program is hurting for cash.

http://www.whitman.edu/content/news/EndowWhitAthletics
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 20, 2012, 12:12:32 AM
A nod to The Boss here...

3-12?

Corban?

Once upon a time, before a malaise lay upon the land, LINFIELD was a BASKETBALL, football AND a baseball school.
In the 1966-67 the WILDCATS were 5-3, with losses to Willamette and St. Martin's (119-121) on the road and Portland State at home. They were defending NWC Champs finishing 23-6 the year before going to Kansas City to lose to Lakeland, Wisconsin, in the first round.
There was a road trip to beat University of Alaska, Fairbanks, that 66-67 season (ever been there?) There was some sundry shoplifting. Coach Ted Wilson got word of it that '67 New Year and eventually suspended 7 players (4 starters) for the season.
He went a searching for a team to complete the season. He promoted JV's and brought in some athletes from intramurals.
The WILDCATS kept pace and went 19-10 that year, won the NWC, won the region, lost a first round game to St. Benedict's in Kansas City.


Glory Days
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 20, 2012, 02:25:58 AM
D.O.C.,
Crazy how times have changed since then.  Kind of like how a gallon of gas cost 50 cents, a new car around 6500, and no three point line.  However, along with all those things, I don't see how any of those things or whatever criticism you put on here help anything.  I also going to take a stab in the dark and say that you were the one who sent what I said about funding earlier to Linfield's athletic director. Cool.

How about that 4 point loss this year to WW, the last second loss to Whitman, and the game at Lewis and Clark where we came close as well.  All losses BUT the team is showing life/maturation quickly.  I would even go as far as to say they are one of the more dangerous teams in the league. 
So DOC, reponse?

Try saying something that adds to something instead of just detracting. Pretty easy to criticize from at home when you don't go to games and/or offer to help with the program in any way. 

I would like to hear your response because usually you just say something like this and then dissappear for a while...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 20, 2012, 02:26:42 PM
Just an update for anyone who's been following the flooding situation in the Willamette Valley (if you haven't, take a look at the Statesman Journal's (http://www.statesmanjournal.com) coverage).  The Mill Race - which runs directly behind Sparks Center/Cone Field House has stayed within its banks so far, but parts of the Willamette campus have been sandbagged.  An e-mail from Campus Safety this morning said that all events today (including the basketball games) were going ahead as planned.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 20, 2012, 05:27:53 PM
George Fox-PLU has been changed to Sunday! Team has difficulty getting there!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 20, 2012, 07:02:08 PM
Lot's of interesting games this weekend. The only game I'm sure of is WW over Williamette! Other than that I think that they are all toss ups.
Linfield-UPS is going to be an interesting game! UPS should win but I would not bet on it!
LC vs Pacific again LC should win but again a toss up. The same with GF- PLU and PLU -Pacific -GF- UPS!

Whitman should get Willamette!

This weekend will be big on who make the playoffs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 20, 2012, 10:52:46 PM
QuoteI would like to hear your response because usually you just say something like this and then dissappear for a while.
Fair enough.

QuoteKind of like how a gallon of gas cost 50 cents, a new car around 6500, and no three point line.

Yeah, been that way all through THE STREAK.

A beautiful venue like Wilson Gymnasium should house more than 'a spoiler'.

Quote
Pretty easy to criticize from at home when you don't go to games and/or offer to help with the program in any way.

Burnt once - shame on you. Burnt twice – shame on me. I was burnt and not going to let it happen again. Within all the NCAA guidelines I delivered a Los Angeles All City three sport athlete to the LINFIELD coach in spring of 2001. This was someone I had known since age 10.  I knew he was LINFIELD material, a diligent student, a successful athlete (in crummy facilities) and of good character at age 17 despite the surrounding chaos. The athlete and I heard nothing.
At a football game that fall I approached said coach and asked if he had watched the video I sent and "What's up?" The answer was a stupefying "We thought he was too good for us."

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 21, 2012, 01:18:35 PM
I'm still not really seeing how your anecdote applies to your vigilant criticisms.  Burnt once, burnt twice blah blah blah.  Did the kid get into Linfield? Apply? And anyways, that was over 10 years ago, get over yourself.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 21, 2012, 02:06:12 PM
DOC/Playball:

You are both right, just coming from different generations.  From what I have heard, Ted Wilson's teams were legendary (see DOC's former post, I heard about that team he put together after the suspensions!), Larry Doty's teams have not been.  I think LC and Whitworth are going to go through the same thing as UPS did when Bridgeland left, but there are now NEW coaches at those schools, not a 20 year coach.  So when the program is down, a "DOC" has the right, responsibility to be a little critical of the team/coach.  Linfield has just underachieved the last decade with the quality of players they have had.  So DOC's point is well taken.

Having said that, I am very impressed with the current team.  Their front line ranks up there in the league with Batiuk, Anderson and Lee all being very good players.  Their guards are pretty much invisible with those 3 around, though.  Batiuk is unconscious!  I might even say he is better as a frosh than Playball was (you were very good though)!  They will win games in the second half unless teams realize how much better they are or take them from granted because of their record.  So Playball's point is well taken.

Can't we all just get along?  Ah, screw that!  Blah, Blah, Blah! :)   DOC, its your turn.  Bring it on!



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 21, 2012, 10:47:10 PM
Hey Veau....
"We thought he was too good for us." and 25 years as a tenured coach with a .500 average would tell you something is rotten in Denmark.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 22, 2012, 08:45:12 PM
Enjoy the great competition in the NWC this week in memory of one the the greatest athletes ever to play in the conference. Doug Long, the former Pirate football and basketball star and former Seattle Seahawk passed away this weekend after long battle with brain cancer.  Doug loved playing at Whitworth and had great respect for the league.  He was a truly inspiring player and person and represented what NWC athletics is all about.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 23, 2012, 01:28:25 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 21, 2012, 02:06:12 PM
DOC/Playball:

You are both right, just coming from different generations.  From what I have heard, Ted Wilson's teams were legendary (see DOC's former post, I heard about that team he put together after the suspensions!), Larry Doty's teams have not been.  I think LC and Whitworth are going to go through the same thing as UPS did when Bridgeland left, but there are now NEW coaches at those schools, not a 20 year coach.  So when the program is down, a "DOC" has the right, responsibility to be a little critical of the team/coach.  Linfield has just underachieved the last decade with the quality of players they have had.  So DOC's point is well taken.

Having said that, I am very impressed with the current team.  Their front line ranks up there in the league with Batiuk, Anderson and Lee all being very good players.  Their guards are pretty much invisible with those 3 around, though.  Batiuk is unconscious!  I might even say he is better as a frosh than Playball was (you were very good though)!  They will win games in the second half unless teams realize how much better they are or take them from granted because of their record.  So Playball's point is well taken.

Can't we all just get along?  Ah, screw that!  Blah, Blah, Blah! :)   DOC, its your turn.  Bring it on!

Good post.  I guess the generation gap is what separates us especially.  From my point of view, it is just frustrating to see first hand how Dotes is treated around the school even.  The students seem to really take to him as he is a very likable person.  However, when it comes to his peers and how he is treated it is a totally different story.  I heard this the other day from a former player at Linfield which pretty well sums up what Dotes has had to deal with:  "He wants us to do so much and then for us not to win, its hard.  And thats why I didn't play."  What a crock.  Disheartening to here. Just trying to provide a glimpse of the Linfield student athlete as of now. 

As for Batuik, he is unreal!  Easy to say he was better than I was!  Has a much better shot than I had and will hopefully lead this team in years to come.  Great kid too.  Makes you wish this Conference would have a rookie of the year award like some others do.  Makes it easier to recognize them nationally
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 24, 2012, 05:16:35 PM
I don't  think it is just Linfield! I think in general players today like to play offense but not do the little things that win basketball games. It is almost a situation like they are entitled to something. To be successful at any level in college it takes a ton of hard work! Winning helps the kids buy in but when winning doesn't happen is when players get some attitude!
The important thing is that they are getting a great education and learning life lessons that will help them later in life. They just don't know it yet.
I think is happens on most teams even ones that win. Freshman come in after being the guy on their high school team having trouble when the minutes don't come !
The coaching is very good in the NWC (ask the new WW coach)! Someone is always grumbling wheather it's players or parents! It is all part of coaching.
I think the league is pretty competitive and very little difference this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 25, 2012, 10:05:44 PM
Linfield beats the Boxers. Not as close as the score would indicate.  Linfield's post game is solid! Big win for Dotes
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 25, 2012, 11:09:29 PM
Linfield really needed that win. I honestly probably would have picked Pacific (had I realized there was a game yesterday) just because of Linfield's previous weekend. Just because they still seem too inconsistent, I'll be surprised if they finish the season with more than 2 wins... puts em at 4-12 in the conference best case scenario IMO. Nothing to be excited about. But then again, their inconsistencies could also be the reason they ruin somebody's post-season hopes if they can steal one from LC, Whitman, PLU, UPS, or GF.

Since I'll surely forget tomorrow, here's Friday's predictions:

LC over Whitman
I really only watch teams play against the Pirates, and I've seen both. Both teams are who I thought they were. Whitman runs a nice system and forces you to play into it. LC has all the talent, but always finds a way to shoot themselves in the foot. LC can play fast and I think they match up well with Whitman. Just like last time they met, home team squeaks out the W

UPS over Willamette
Still not impressed with Lunt. Still waiting to see him do something with "his" players. Lucky for UPS he could have just about anybody's players and beat Willamette. If it was down in the valley, I'd say Willamette could keep it close. Don't see that happening in Tacoma, though.

Whitworth over GF
Haven't heard anything about Loofburrow's health. Larkin seems to have healed enough to contribute. Lasisi will be able to eliminate one of the GF guards and Freidt should prevent a weak GF frontcourt from doing any damage. Taylor, Sanchez, or Grant will have to go for 25 for GF to win. This game will be tight, GF seems much improved from the last time they played up in Spokane but Whitworth is still the most talented team in the conference and until that changes I won't be picking against them.

PLU over Linfield
I was very impressed with Linfield and if they can slow down the game, be effective inside and play good D on the perimeter, they can beat PLU. I just don't think they can do all of those things in the same night. They are giving up too many points night in and night out to win this one. PLU will give Linfield some high % shots down low, but it won't be enough.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 27, 2012, 12:30:19 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 25, 2012, 11:09:29 PM
Lucky for UPS he could have just about anybody's players and beat Willamette.

Wait that's ... no ... come on ....

I got nothing. :-[

(Picks: Whitman, UPS, Whitworth, PLU.)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 27, 2012, 04:07:54 PM
Another weekend of great NWC games.

Picks-Whitworth, UPS, PLU, Lewis & Clark
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 27, 2012, 06:20:32 PM
Picks- UPS, Whitworth, Whitman (I cant stand L&C), and Linfield.  Lets see!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 28, 2012, 12:49:49 AM
Whitworth catches fire from 3 in the second half. Wins 85-66. GF's Michael Taylor held to 1 point
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 28, 2012, 01:21:03 AM
PLU 68
Linfield 53


UPS 85
Willamette 64


LC 81
Whitman 74
(I'd like to point out this was a 3 point game with 15 seconds left)

Oh, and BP. When are you going to help to Willamette radio guys with their broadcast skills?? They are terrible, nothing remotely neutral about them and they made up stories about certain individuals' not playing due to academic issues. The latter is uncalled for IMO. If you are going to question a kid's intelligence/work ethic in the classroom you better be pretty damn sure you are right. Guess when nobody listens you can say whatever you want though. At least tell them to hop on the boards every once in awhile to pretend like they've done some research.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 28, 2012, 04:40:01 AM
I didn't listen to the game tonight (could only follow live stats), so I can't comment one way or the other on the radio broadcast.  What I will say is this: I know he isn't the most popular guy on these boards - and I've definitely had gripes with the way he calls games before - but Mike is a stand-up guy who does a ton of great things for Willamette athletics, mostly on his own dime/time.  The fact that we have a video feed for our home games is better than half the conference, and the fact that we have home and away radio coverage is pretty cool too.

This has been a brutal, brutal season for everyone who cares about Bearcat Hoop.  By my count, Mike's called 18 straight losses (he calls the women's games too), and 16 of them have been blowouts.  He's frustrated, I'm frustrated, and I hope the folks upstairs in Sparks Center are frustrated too.  For that reason alone, I'm willing to cut him some slack.

Whitworth folks are spoiled by Castle anyway. :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 28, 2012, 07:58:58 PM
You are right BP. Castle is the best in the biz. A one man broadcast team. Guy does play-by-play, color, tweets and probably donates blood all during th broadcast.

Duty calls, so I dont have a ton of time to post anything other than who I think will win (no reasoning/analysis tonight)

Whitworth beats LC
Whitman rebounds to beat GF
UPS over Pacific
PLU over Willamette
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2012, 06:17:06 PM
Whitworth really dismantled LC in the second half the other night. Pirate D held LC to 19% from the field after the break, 10% from 3. Whitworth shot 66% from the field, 62% from beyond the arc for the game. Only got 6 FT's the entire game but made all of them count (6-6).

Hollins played 27 minutes, scored 7 points. 1-5 from 3, 3-7 from the field. So almost all of his shots were from 3, my bet is they were bad shots (that's what he likes to do). But one of the Pio posters who watched the game (I know the football player was there) could comment.

The rest of the conference:
Whitman  82
GF  62

PLU  89
Willamette  78

UPS  74
Pacific  63

Only surprise is how badly Whitman beat GF. I figured GF could keep pace even though they are missing Grant. Looks like Whitman didn't break the game up until about 7 min left in the second. Went on a 13-0 run to go up by 21 and that was that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2012, 10:05:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 29, 2012, 06:17:06 PM
Hollins played 27 minutes, scored 7 points. 1-5 from 3, 3-7 from the field. So almost all of his shots were from 3, my bet is they were bad shots (that's what he likes to do). But one of the Pio posters who watched the game (I know the football player was there) could comment.

Only surprise is how badly Whitman beat GF. I figured GF could keep pace even though they are missing Grant. Looks like Whitman didn't break the game up until about 7 min left in the second. Went on a 13-0 run to go up by 21 and that was that.

Rat, I'm glad you and I can see eye to eye on Hollins.  The kid could be really good, if his shot selection wasn't so mind boggling.

As for the Whitman-Fox game, David Michaels having 40?!  Wow!  Good for him!  Whitman is dangerous on any given night from a variety of different players.  Where is Shaw though?  Not much playing time this year, any reason?  Very good player not getting time, tough to see. 

Fox needs a post.  Not even a good one, just someone to actually fill the position who weighs more than 200 lbs.  They have the guard play to win games but the interior is lacking.

If Fox and Linfield could combine... yikes!
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 30, 2012, 10:28:05 AM
Top 4 teams go at it this weekend. It is about to be a war in eastern Washington! What is everyones thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 30, 2012, 03:19:21 PM
I reserve the right to change this Friday morning but right now I think both Tacoma teams get swept. I think PLU loses both regardless, but UPS has to travel to Walla Walla after the game in Spokane. I think that hurts them and they drop the Sat night game for that reason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 30, 2012, 05:05:12 PM
I think PLU will beat Whitman and give Whitworth a game! The loggers puzzle me! Sometimes I think they are really good and sometimes I'm not sure! They beat Whitman also! I think UPS could beat WW!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 30, 2012, 07:04:42 PM
I think it will be four great games in Eastern Washington. Any team can beat one another if the other doesn't bring it. UPS has gotten a lot better since their 3 game skid. It was never their offense but their defense was giving up a little to much. The last 4 games, they buckled down and got stops. I am very excited to see what happens Friday and Saturday.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on January 31, 2012, 06:03:25 PM
I agree this year has been fun. I expect UPS to be fired up! Both games on video!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 02, 2012, 04:38:02 PM
Four overtimes for L&C vs GF. That loss really hurt LC. Key guys foulded out for L&C .I have only been to one game at GF and the ref's were awful! Don't know if that was the case only watched the OT. M Taylor hit a big three to extend the game. Kids were tired FT shooting was not good for either team in the OT periods! Give GF credit they are tough at home and a solid team!So is LC! NWC very good this year!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 03, 2012, 03:59:25 PM
It's Friday afternoon - picks anyone?

Huge games in eastern Washington this weekend: I'll take PLU for the upset on the road over Whitman and Whitworth over UPS.  Fox is on a little bit of a roll, and I think they'll beat Pacific in Newberg.  Linfield/Willamette is one of those rivalry games where you can usually throw out the records when making your pick (thank goodness), so I'll go with my heart and take the Bearcats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 04, 2012, 01:35:00 AM
Aye aye aye.... This is tough to watch.  Enough said.


Good win for the Eastern Washington teams.  Can someone, anyone stop David Micheals?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 04, 2012, 01:08:56 PM
Congrats to Felix and Wade for Academic All-district

http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/releases/20120202bb6gg6

Big games tonight.  The Bucs cannot afford to lose in order to keep the two game cushion over Whitman.  We don't need to make the Feb 14 game with Whitman for the league title.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 04, 2012, 02:49:52 PM
Of course the Bearcats beat Linfield in the first home game I missed since November.  Hopefully they can keep it up at the Dim Gym tonight.  Your complimentary bizarre stat of the weekend:

Since the 2009-10 season, Willamette is 4-2 against Linfield and 7-30 against the rest of the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 04, 2012, 04:30:48 PM
So far, so good on my sweep prediction. Nice win for the Pirates. Still not impressed with Lunt, wonder when UPS fans come to their senses...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 04, 2012, 07:23:06 PM
WW is very good! UPS is a good team just not as talented as WW.

Just looked at box score for Whitman /PLU game  32 free throws to 12 REALLY? Homered! Michaels best played in league no doubt but they were beat in every category except FT and the final score.
That being said you have to make more than 2 of 12!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 05, 2012, 03:00:17 AM
UPS thwarted my prediction. We really need some Whitman fans/posters because I really don't unferstand this team. I didn't get them last year and they make even less sense to me this year. I didn't think they'd be as streaky. I mean, this isn't the first time they have played 2 completely different games on back to back nights.

I haven't seen anything from the box score but UPS matches up well with Whitman IMO. They have enough size to cause Whitmans D troubles and athletic enough guards to slow down the Missionaries guards. Michaels plays well when he doesn't have to defend and be defended by a good post player (Freidt, the good version of Gittens). Maybe tonight was different but I'd be shocked if he scored 20 against UPS.

Is LC dead in the water as far as playoffs are concerned yet?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 06, 2012, 11:06:44 AM
Good win for UPS Saturday at Whitman. PLU almost shocked everyone. Pretty good games overall in Eastern Washington. The last 2 weeks will be a dog fight.

(509)Rat-What senses do UPS fans have to come to?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2012, 02:32:18 PM
UPS is 1 loss away from missing the playoffs. Oh how the mighty have fallen. I remember when UPS was consistently the most talented team in the league...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 06, 2012, 03:01:16 PM
UPS is very talented, they may be one loss away but so are 4-5 other teams. Anything can happen in this tough league. Besides WW, what do you think about the rest of the league and who will make the playoffs?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2012, 06:08:11 PM
I wouldn't want to admit that my 8-4 conference record is coming from a "talented" team, when I'm always trying so hard to defend my coach.

Here's how I think the top 4 will finish

1. Whitworth   15-1
2. Whitman     11-5
3. PLU            10-6
4. GF              10-6
5. UPS (loses tie breaker) 10-6

Don't know who would own tie breaker at 3 and 4. I have PLU and GF splitting season series. UPS goes 2-2 down the stretch and misses playoffs based on head to head with GF and PLU. Basically 4 outside of Whitworth are praying Willamette or Linfield catch fire against one of the other 3. LC would have to knock off PLU and UPS (and run the table) to get a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 06, 2012, 06:16:26 PM
(509)Rat, it is not really about defending the coach as much as it is trying to see why you always have negative things to say about him. Its like you have personal issues with the UPS coach.

No matter what your issues are against UPS, they will be in the playoffs and yes, this 8-4 team has talent.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2012, 06:51:08 PM
I see. You want to have your cake and eat it too. At 8-4 you can't have superior talent and a superior coach. Is UPS more talented than PLU? If you believe that to be true then the PLU coach is better than Lunt. What about GF and Whitman?

It would be like me being impressed with Logie if Whitworth was 8-4. No excuse for that to happen with the players on that team. I don't have a problem with Lunt, I have a problem with terrible logic used to defend a team/coach.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 06, 2012, 07:58:13 PM
Never said superior talent, never said Lunt was a superior coach to anyone. Because you feel the logic is terrible, doesn't mean anything. UPS has a good coach and they have a good team. That is what I am saying. Doesn't matter if you are impressed or not, 2 of their losses are from a top 10 team, the other 3 came when a team shot the lights out. Gotta give credit to those teams, no excuses. Also, I never said that UPS was more talented than any other team, I just said they have talent. Would you not agree? What to you makes a good coach/not so good coach? And remember, I have never said one coach is better than the other, each have their own special ways dealing with their teams and bringing out the best in the players on and off the court, that is what it is all about.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 06, 2012, 09:42:52 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 06, 2012, 07:58:13 PM
Never said superior talent, never said Lunt was a superior coach to anyone. Because you feel the logic is terrible, doesn't mean anything. UPS has a good coach and they have a good team. That is what I am saying. Doesn't matter if you are impressed or not, 2 of their losses are from a top 10 team, the other 3 came when a team shot the lights out. Gotta give credit to those teams, no excuses. Also, I never said that UPS was more talented than any other team, I just said they have talent. Would you not agree? What to you makes a good coach/not so good coach? And remember, I have never said one coach is better than the other, each have their own special ways dealing with their teams and bringing out the best in the players on and off the court, that is what it is all about.

Keandre, I know your position very well.  Im sorry to tell you this but you won't win, however you do bring good points to the table.  I was never a fan of UPS however they do have good talent.  I wasn't a huge fan of Lunt, but thought he was nice enough. Good coach.  The teams that have done well this year have done one of two things. 1) Recruited to their systems needs. 2) Gotten hot at the right times.   Th first one is somewhat on the coach, however you never know how kids are going to turn out in the end.  The coach can't go out and play the game for the team, which is unfortunate because I think if it worked that way my Linfield would have more wins ;).  But back to the point, Talent alone doesn't win games.  It helps, but it isnt everything.  Whitworth has a great system, and to be honest, looking at their lineup and the rest of the league, which I believe to be a little down this year, I dont think they should've lost at all.  Does that mean that Logie is a bad coach? No.  Does that mean Whitman is more talented? No way.  So to say that UPS is either untalented or has a bad coach is a bit extreme. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2012, 11:40:15 PM
Quote from: keandreAlso, I never said that UPS was more talented than any other team, I just said they have talent. Would you not agree? What to you makes a good coach/not so good coach? And remember, I have never said one coach is better than the other, each have their own special ways dealing with their teams and bringing out the best in the players on and off the court, that is what it is all about.

Man, you really just sat right on the fence didn't you? No sense in debating with you when you won't take a stance one way or the other. But you are right. the whole NWC has equal talent and equally "good" coaches. Hugs and kisses all around!  :-*

Why do we even keep score?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2012, 02:26:38 AM
Lunt did a decent job 3 years ago when he clearly had the best talent in the league.  First coach to go undefeated in the conference. Does not have the same kind of talent now.  Part of that is on him since he is responsible for recruiting. From what i've seen he is going after the right talent. He has maintained UPS at an above average level and IMHO he's an above average coach in the NWC. 

That said, UPS has been one of the best programs and is an attractive place for players to come to.  Maybe should be achieving at a higher level.  He needs to make the playoffs year in and year out to be continue to be above average.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 07, 2012, 10:39:49 AM
Man, you really just sat right on the fence didn't you? No sense in debating with you when you won't take a stance one way or the other. But you are right. the whole NWC has equal talent and equally "good" coaches. Hugs and kisses all around!  :-*

Why do we even keep score?

So, your stance is that you are not impressed with Lunt. My stance is he is a good coach and that I am impressed with him. I have been trying to find out why you are not impressed and you beat around the question. How about you answer clearly, what are you not impressed with? Last year, people said he could only coach the press and that the league has figured it out so it was not working anymore, now, he has changed that and has developed his team into being one of the best defensive teams in the league, which is why they are second right now. He has adapted to the change and is doing very well. Isn't that a part of being a good coach, adapting to the change? That is hard for some coaches.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 07, 2012, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2012, 02:26:38 AM
First coach to go undefeated in the conference.

First coach to go undefeated in the conference since Gordie James and Willamette in Gordie's first season (1987-88).  Before that you have to go all the way back to College of Idaho in 1954-55, when they started a guy named Elgin Baylor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 07, 2012, 12:09:14 PM
Gordie James, great coach! One of my favorite guys ever in the business.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2012, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 07, 2012, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2012, 02:26:38 AM
First coach to go undefeated in the conference.

First coach to go undefeated in the conference since Gordie James and Willamette in Gordie's first season (1987-88).  Before that you have to go all the way back to College of Idaho in 1954-55, when they started a guy named Elgin Baylor.

When I said "First coach to go undefeated" I should have added "since going to DIII".

I miss having College of Idaho in the league. No one would complain about the Eastern Washington road trip if they still had to get over to play in Caldwell. That was a road trip!!!

Once you got there it wasn't much better. They used to play basketball in an indoor rodeo stadium. The floor was put on top of dirt. The football stadium was next to the outdoor rodeo stadium and we dressed in the locker room from the rodeo.  They also had a big picture of Elgin Baylor somewhere on campus. That was pretty cool.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 08, 2012, 12:07:21 AM
Quote from: Keandre on February 07, 2012, 10:39:49 AM
So, your stance is that you are not impressed with Lunt. My stance is he is a good coach and that I am impressed with him. I have been trying to find out why you are not impressed and you beat around the question. How about you answer clearly, what are you not impressed with? Last year, people said he could only coach the press and that the league has figured it out so it was not working anymore, now, he has changed that and has developed his team into being one of the best defensive teams in the league, which is why they are second right now. He has adapted to the change and is doing very well. Isn't that a part of being a good coach, adapting to the change? That is hard for some coaches.

I have explained numerous times why I'm not impressed with Lunt. It is simple, he has a team that has declined noticeably since he took over. Let's not pretend like you all don't wish you had Bridgeland back. I mean look at what Whitman has done over the last 3 years vs. what UPS has. 2 programs that appear to be going in opposite directions. 7-9 last season, 8-4 this season, missing the NWC tourney last year, and possibly missing it again this year. And you wonder how I'm not impressed?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 08, 2012, 12:12:49 AM
And you must not have watched the UPS v Whitworth games this year. The gap between these two teams has been steadily widening over the last 3 years. That alone should be enough to upset any self respecting Logger fan  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 08, 2012, 01:08:58 PM
Lunt did a good job last night. They went to the big boys and played a really physical game against a much smaller PLU team. Good coaching last night!
Being physical is their strenth! If they continue to do that it will be a good run for them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 08, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Looks like the Pirates are going to win league barring a major meltdown.  5 league championships in 6 years and if they win the league tournament it will be 6 in a row.  This must be what it feels like to be Linfield in football.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 09, 2012, 12:31:30 AM
(509)RAT, UPS has gotten better each year the last 3 years. They are 17-5 and 9-4 in league which is good for second behind Whitworth. None of that impresses you? But, I will say that this trend does have to keep up and with the guys they bring in, this can for sure see UPS in the top 3 each year for years to come.

Buc, you can also say this is what George Fox womens basketball must feel like too. Them girls can go!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 09, 2012, 12:01:15 PM
It has been a great run for WW but they also got lucky by getting M Taylor last year! Without him I don't think they win it last year. Most of NWC coaches bring in their own recruits ! Not to many JC or D1 transfers.WW in the past few years brought in some top notch JC transfers. And this year one from Belgium!
Not defending Lunt Im not a UPS fan but he is doing it with their own kids . The big guy from TCC but from T Town.
When no one else is going that route road gets a little easier. Going to be a little tougher at Eastern where everyone recruits.
Winning is important and fun but The D3 expierence is much more than that!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 09, 2012, 01:49:56 PM
Quote from: etule on February 09, 2012, 12:01:15 PM
When no one else is going that route road gets a little easier. Going to be a little tougher at Eastern where everyone recruits.
Winning is important and fun but The D3 expierence is much more than that!
First of all, others are recruiting JC's and transfers, as well they should. LC had a great kid a couple years back that transferred in and would have been one of the best in the league except for some health problems. Fox has couple transfers.  Linfield has one.  The schools take transfers that are non-athletes as well. All elite schools take transfers (non-athletes as well as athletes--Stanford even has a separate pool for admission of transfer students). Some kids can't afford 4 years of Whitworth or UPS.  Sometimes things happen in their lives and they have to change schools (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=231641).   So don't think Whitworth's talent is there because the other coaches wouldn't have taken those kids. WW is not lowering their standards or not giving their kids a D3 experience in order to win.

Second, Lunt and Bridgeland recruit just as hard Hayford did.  Lunt and Robles at UPS are incredibly persistent recruiters.  The thing is with Hayford is he sets his sights on very high level kids, but he figures out ways to get them.  One AAU coach I know complained that Hayford is like some unattractive guy that thinks he has a shot with Halle Berry.   Made me think about the fact that Hayford's wife is actually way better looking than he has a right to be with. 

As much as we like to think of success on the court being related to developing players, teamwork, etc. recruiting and fundraising really help.  The extra money Hayford brought in to fly players to Portland instead of bussing them probably helped with their success on the road.  Ask Playball how hard it is to travel on a bus 8 hours and then play a game the next day.  Nothing wrong with what WW with is doing with the kids they bring in.  In fact, I'd say that in the case of guys like Ryan Symes, taking transfers is a huge positive for the school, not just the basketball team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 09, 2012, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 09, 2012, 01:49:56 PM
One AAU coach I know complained that Hayford is like some unattractive guy that thinks he has a shot with Halle Berry.   Made me think about the fact that Hayford's wife is actually way better looking than he has a right to be with. 

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcS4eImfnC8scOH6sN5LXT0bFjvze53Bx-eg_-WsOqIK9Yh_5mV42UfCiTxC6w&hash=65c69f632adcca3bb065a4814b1f06b7bba474f0)

So you're telling me there's a chance?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2012, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: etule on February 09, 2012, 12:01:15 PM
It has been a great run for WW but they also got lucky by getting M Taylor last year! Without him I don't think they win it last year. Most of NWC coaches bring in their own recruits ! Not to many JC or D1 transfers.WW in the past few years brought in some top notch JC transfers. And this year one from Belgium!
Not defending Lunt Im not a UPS fan but he is doing it with their own kids . The big guy from TCC but from T Town.
When no one else is going that route road gets a little easier. Going to be a little tougher at Eastern where everyone recruits.
Winning is important and fun but The D3 expierence is much more than that!

I'm not sure that I care for your implication that transfers aren't recruited, or that they aren't as much a particular coach's recruits as are his four-year players. The first implication is definitely wrong, in most cases. And the second implication makes it sound as though transfers are red-headed stepchildren, as opposed to the favorite sons who are with the coaches from day one of freshman year. Can't say that I agree with that, either. Each coach is different. Each player is different. I've seen lots of transfer players and coaches who have developed extremely tight bonds, and I've seen plenty of four-year players who have never much cared for their coaches, and vice-versa.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2012, 01:14:48 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 09, 2012, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 09, 2012, 01:49:56 PM
One AAU coach I know complained that Hayford is like some unattractive guy that thinks he has a shot with Halle Berry.   Made me think about the fact that Hayford's wife is actually way better looking than he has a right to be with. 

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcS4eImfnC8scOH6sN5LXT0bFjvze53Bx-eg_-WsOqIK9Yh_5mV42UfCiTxC6w&hash=65c69f632adcca3bb065a4814b1f06b7bba474f0)

So you're telling me there's a chance?

Good quote, but it wasn't that long of a shot for Hayford.  The Lloyd Christmas quote will more appropriately be used by Zach Anderson after the Larry Doty pep talk before the Whitworth game.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Logsfan1 on February 10, 2012, 03:57:16 AM
In support of Keandre's points re: Puget Sound's strengths....this year the Loggers beat UW River Falls, which if I'm not mistaken is now the #1 ranked team in the west.  UWRF made a late run in that game, but Puget Sound controlled the game and was the better team.  (This suggests that maybe the NWC is better overall than you might think this year.)  UPS had four poor halves in a row--losing a lead to WW in the second half in Tacoma after leading at halftime and expanding that lead to 7 or 8 early in the second half, playing a terrible game at PLU and then an awful half at GF, followed by good play in the second half and then a string of wins.  I didn't follow the recent game in Spokane, and it looks like WW dominated.  But I saw Puget Sound play WW very tough for most of the game in Tacoma and I think that in the recent PLU game at UPS the Loggers showed they can be a very tough and very physical team, presenting a different profile than past good UPS squads.  Puget Sound is quite good this year, maybe not the best team in the NWC but if they beat GF tomorrow it'd be hard to argue the Loggers are not the second best team in the conference.  Then they can hope for another shot at WW in Spokane. 
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 10, 2012, 02:29:08 PM
I'm not sure that I care for your implication that transfers aren't recruited, or that they aren't as much a particular coach's recruits as are his four-year players. The first implication is definitely wrong, in most cases. And the second implication makes it sound as though transfers are red-headed stepchildren, as opposed to the favorite sons who are with the coaches from day one of freshman year. Can't say that I agree with that, either. Each coach is different. Each player is different. I've seen lots of transfer players and coaches who have developed extremely tight bonds, and I've seen plenty of four-year players who have never much cared for their coaches
Quote
(Sager)

I think that some coaches recruit a lot more than others. I think some coaches don't recruit JC kids at all. Not because they are bad kids but because thats the route they want to go!So I know that implication is not wrong!
As some one that went to a JC for two years I have no problem with JCs they are a very important part of our educational system.
Team sports sometimes are very touchy! Chemistry and molding kids as a team is hard enough when you insert new players it creates a whole new dynamic! It can become very difficult for a coach!(when they are D3 player of the year it's a lot easier)

I personally don't have a problem with JC players if they are there for two years! The one and done player I do have a problem with that senario! I think that bonds between coaches and players like any relationship is hard to predict. As someone who has coached kids over the last twenty years my bond with kids that I coached over four years is a lot stronger that a one or two year relationship!Every senario is different.
I'm not familiar with anything but the west coast and I know that WW does recruit more JC D1 players that most the teams on the west coast. Not saying it bad but I think that is a fact! In looking st the rosters on the Wisconsin teams that came out here to play did not see any transfer kids !
It works for them and really that is the bottom line! I don't have to like it and we don't have to agree! I love D3 sports because it is true student athletes. They work hard and study hard for no other reason but loving whatever sport they are playing. When kids are brought in for one year that bugs me. Doesn't make it right or wrong but I think it tarnishes what D3 is all about! Just my feelings!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 10, 2012, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2012, 01:14:48 AM
Good quote, but it wasn't that long of a shot for Hayford.  The Lloyd Christmas quote will more appropriately be used by Zach Anderson after the Larry Doty pep talk before the Whitworth game.  :)

+1 for that.  Well played!

Also, stick a fork in Lewis & Clark - those guys are done.  Not to take anything at all away from Willamette's most complete game of the season (especially Taylor Mounts, who finally went into beast mode with 20 points, 16 boards, 3 assists and 2 blocks), but the Pioneers looked completely checked out last night, especially Hollins.  Going 0-11 from the floor is more than just a bad night.  Hopefully the Bearcats can take momentum from this win, the Linfield win, and the close loss to Pacific into senior night on Saturday against Fox.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 10, 2012, 04:06:06 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 10, 2012, 03:16:12 PM
but the Pioneers looked completely checked out last night, especially Hollins.  Going 0-11 from the floor is more than just a bad night.

This sounds a lot like what another poster was saying earlier this season. Go ahead playball, give the 2 Pio posters (who have disappeared, surprise, surprise) a big "I told you so". You were spot on.

tonight's games:

Whitworth over Linfield: I actually think this game won't close as the game in Spokane. Doesn't make sense at all but I'm sticking too that.

Whitman beats Pacific

GF over UPS: Have yet to see UPS string together more than 2 good games against quality opponents, why should I think they'll start now? I'm guessing Grant is still out for Fox?


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 10, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
UPS over Fox
Whiworth over Linfield
Pacific over Whitman-Whitman has trouble at Pacific(go back to last year)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 10, 2012, 04:54:29 PM
Thanks Rat.  But being right on Hollins doesnt feel all that great.  If I said David Michaels was going to have a 40 point game this year at the beginning would have been more satisfying.  Even though I still can't get my head around that one.

Big call on the Pacific upset at home over Whitman.  I think Whitman dominates as Pacific's tallest kid from the game I saw was 6'5....not bad, but he was also listed at 190 lbs.  David Michaels will have another 20-10 night, possibly 30-10.  Whitman doesnt overlook Pacific and wins by 18.

Linfield played WW close AT WW last time and you have those "Valley Refs" out to screw over every WW kid in the gym.  So Linfield loses by 3.

No Grant, no win for fox.  UPS beats Fox by 8.

And Buc, that 8 hour bus trip up to Spokane was/is/always will be rough!  My freshmen year we got to fly, soooo much nicer.  Would this feed into my "budgets directly effect competitiveness of teams" argument?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2012, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: playball on February 10, 2012, 04:54:29 PM

And Buc, that 8 hour bus trip up to Spokane was/is/always will be rough!  My freshmen year we got to fly, soooo much nicer.  Would this feed into my "budgets directly effect competitiveness of teams" argument?

I completely agree that budgets affect performance, that's what my post was saying. Those bus trips are also hard on the school side of being a student athlete also. Leaving later and getting back earlier makes it easier to get your work done.  That said, no planes from Walla Walla to Spokane.  :)

I like playbill's predictions for the night.  My only comment is that if Whitman loses to Pacific, I will forever be mystified by that team and will never try to figure them out again.  I think UPS beats fox, but it will be closer than 8.  As for WW vs Linfield, it better be by more than 3.  Time for the Bucs to become an efficient machine that marches on into the playoffs with a take no prisoners attitude.  This attitude kind of wavered at the end of the year last year. I thought WW peaked about January or early February last year.  The time to start peaking is now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 11, 2012, 03:17:40 AM
Ok (509)Rat, that is 3 wins in a row for UPS against quality teams. What are your thoughts? Oh, let me guess, not impressed ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 11, 2012, 10:57:21 AM
Why wouldn't I be? This is the first time UPS has looked good against top NWC competition on consecutive weekends. I had no reason to believe in the Loggers until after last night's game was over. Unlike you, I am consistent, not to mention realistic. So yes, UPS is finally accomplishing what their talent level would lead you to believe is possible.

Wish I could have watched the Whitworth game last night. Just looking at the box score, that's what I would expect from a top 10 team. And that is probably one of the first times this season you could say that since early Dec. Like a buc forever said earlier, I like how this team seems to be playing it's best basketball this late in the season. It certainly helps that they are finally healthy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 11, 2012, 02:51:35 PM
Last night was a great Hoops night for those of us from Palo Alto: Linsanity!!!

Tonights picks (boring night except for the upset in McMinnville):

WW over Pac by a large margin
PLU over LC by 10
Fox over Willamette by 10
Linfield over Whitman--Bridgeland already preparing for Tuesday night and forgets to show up.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 11, 2012, 06:48:11 PM
Great call on Whitman game tonight. I agree with your picks buc.

(509)Rat, why wouldn't you be? Cause you are the one with the most negative things to say about UPS.

Very excited to see how games go tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 11, 2012, 11:49:09 PM
I guess Whitman didn't look past this one.  Tuesday night will be a good one.  No video link?

Playball, I've never seen Linfield like this.  Do you need a good wing?  I've got the best kid player from Palo Alto High School (Jeremy Lin's alma mater) sitting in my kitchen playing Madden right now?  I'd steer him to Linfield instead of WW just to even it up a little.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 11, 2012, 11:52:30 PM
Whitworth up on Pacific 48-25 at the half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 12, 2012, 08:48:23 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 11, 2012, 11:49:09 PM
I guess Whitman didn't look past this one.  Tuesday night will be a good one.  No video link?

Playball, I've never seen Linfield like this.  Do you need a good wing?  I've got the best kid player from Palo Alto High School (Jeremy Lin's alma mater) sitting in my kitchen playing Madden right now?  I'd steer him to Linfield instead of WW just to even it up a little.

HA!  Looks like we just need consistent play from someone other than David Lee.  And we will see how good Lin is when Carmelo and Amare both come back.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2012, 09:10:42 PM
Quote from: playball on February 12, 2012, 08:48:23 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 11, 2012, 11:49:09 PM
I guess Whitman didn't look past this one.  Tuesday night will be a good one.  No video link?

Playball, I've never seen Linfield like this.  Do you need a good wing?  I've got the best kid player from Palo Alto High School (Jeremy Lin's alma mater) sitting in my kitchen playing Madden right now?  I'd steer him to Linfield instead of WW just to even it up a little.

HA!  Looks like we just need consistent play from someone other than David Lee.  And we will see how good Lin is when Carmelo and Amare both come back.

Or we will see whether Carmelo and Amare are TEAM players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 14, 2012, 01:15:18 PM
Am I correct that tonights game as no video or audio-cast?  What happened to Whitman's video streaming from last year?  I'd pay $10 to see this game.  Key game for the Bucs.  Let's see how they play in a hostile environment against a team that beat them.  I think they are really starting to come together and dominate and everyone is healthy.  If they dominate this one, it bodes well for how they'll play in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 14, 2012, 04:11:53 PM
I see Whitworth beating them pretty good. Looftbrow will have a great game cause Whitman has no one that can cover him. If Michaels guards him, then that brings him away from the hoop and the other big from Whitman isn't good enough against the bigs from Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 14, 2012, 06:33:24 PM
If they shoot the three ball at a high % they win if not they could lose. This team not nearly as good as last years team! Whitman is very tough at home and they would love to sweep WW. When is the last time that has happened?
Whitman has video for most games. I would check their website! I think it may cost $10 bucks or so!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 14, 2012, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: etule on February 14, 2012, 06:33:24 PM
If they shoot the three ball at a high % they win if not they could lose. This team not nearly as good as last years team! Whitman is very tough at home and they would love to sweep WW. When is the last time that has happened?
Whitman has video for most games. I would check their website! I think it may cost $10 bucks or so!

I'll check later for the link, but video option not listed on WW website.  I would have agreed with your statement about the team not being as good as last year's team earlier in the year, but with Wade Gebbers and Felix a year older and more experienced and with Loofburrow getting a bigger role, I think this team would have given last year's team run for the money. Awhile ago there was a discussion about who was the best guard to play for WW over the last 10 years ago and some said Wade would be the best after it is all said and done.  That might be right.  Love the way he plays.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 15, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
I don't think I have ever seen a potential finish like this!  With 2 games to go, a 3-way tie for the 4th playoff spot could go through the 2nd tie-breaker. 

If LC gets UPS (at LC where only Whitworth has beat them) and Pac, PLU gets Fox (at PLU, always a tough place to play) and Pac, and Fox gets Linfield and loses to PLU, all three finish at 8-8.  Tie breaker #1:  All finish 1-1 against each other.  Tie breaker #2:  All lost both times to Whitworth; if LC wins against UPS, all split with UPS; PLU gets eliminated losing to Whitman twice while the other two split; Fox and LC both split with Will and swept Pac (assuming LC wins their 2nd game with Pac), and Fox should get Linfield for a sweep by both teams.

(Did I get all of that right?)

3rd Tie breaker:  I have no idea what it is or what would even make sense.  But at this point LC and Fox, as demonstrated by their 4OT game, are pretty damn even and deserve a playoff game!

So I will take all of the home teams on Friday, and only LC and UPS with road wins on Saturday to set up such a scenario.  Of course, if UPS beats LC or Fox beats PLU, it is all moot.

Also, their is the point that whoever comes out standing becomes the victim of Whitworth, but that is another weekend.

Only in the NWC!

BTW, I have been watching this board all year, just sitting on the bench.  So, great year by Whitworth (I thought they would lose another game or 2 this year in conference), UPS and Whitman!  They deserve the top 3 spots!  I hope the league playoffs are good games and the victor represents the NWC well in the playoffs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2012, 09:41:18 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 15, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
If LC gets UPS and Pac, PLU gets Fox (at PLU, a tough place to play) and Pac, and Fox gets Linfield and loses to PLU, all three finish at 8-8.  Tie breaker #1:  All finish 1-1 against each other.  Tie breaker #2:  All lost both times to Whitworth; if LC wins against UPS, all split with UPS; PLU gets eliminated losing to Whitman twice while the other two split; Fox and LC both split with Will and swept Pac (assuming LC wins their 2nd game with Pac), and Fox should get Linfield for a sweep by both teams.

(Did I get all of that right?)

3rd Tie breaker:  I have no idea what it is or what would even make sense.  But at this point LC and Fox, along with their 4OT game, are pretty damn even and deserve a playoff game!

My mind has been blown. Great post, pretty sure you nailed the scenarios. But then again, I was lost after the second sentence. LC is going to need to bring their A game against the Loggers, a team who has finally developed some consistency. I'd say they are playing better basketball than Whitman now, even though the Missionaries still scare me more due to the matchup issues they present the Pirates and their complete and utter unpredictability. They can shoot 50% one night and 20% the next...

I don't know if anyone can beat Whitworth in Spokane in a Conference tourney Championship type setting. It's too bad because I really enjoyed the 4 team pod @ UPS a few years back when the NWC got 2 bids. Would be fun to get CMS and maybe an ASC team (that we never see up here) play. Of course as a Whitworth homer, I've become fond of the first round bye followed by the Chapman v SCIAC winner traveling to the Fieldhouse. With Chapman joining the SCIAC I don't see that scenario playing out anymore...maybe one of the gurus could share their thoughts

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 15, 2012, 01:00:52 PM
If UPS can drop two and Whitman wins, everyone is playing playing in Eastern Washington. All those west side teams have to be excited for that. Maybe playball would make that road trip for old times sake.

My biggest worry in the tourney is Whitman. They step up their game for Whitworth.  Last night's game sounded like a bruising match by the way Castle called it. Big 3 by Lasisi to stop Whitman's run.  Whitman never backs down from the Bucs.  Only team to beat them in conference the last 3 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 15, 2012, 01:00:52 PM
If UPS can drop two and Whitman wins, everyone is playing playing in Eastern Washington. All those west side teams have to be excited for that. Maybe playball would make that road trip for old times sake.

My biggest worry in the tourney is Whitman. They step up their game for Whitworth.  Last night's game sounded like a bruising match by the way Castle called it. Big 3 by Lasisi to stop Whitman's run.  Whitman never backs down from the Bucs.  Only team to beat them in conference the last 3 years.

No way, no how.  I'd probably get a foul just sitting in the stands knowing the Eastern Washington refs.

Anyways, I have better things to do!  Spring Training!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2012, 09:44:34 PM
However, if you and Rat saved me a spot next to the two of you I might make an exception!  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2012, 03:01:17 PM
It'll be a lot tougher to get you a seat for a game in the Fieldhouse, at least compared to a game at Linfield....or so I hear  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 19, 2012, 02:54:33 AM
(509)Rat, looks like you were wrong, again. UPS went 3-1, not 2-2 like you thought. They got a home playoff game, not one in Eastern Washington, like you said. What are your thoughts now? Let me guess, you will show all your love for Eastern Washington teams?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2012, 11:49:32 AM
I have no problem being wrong or admitting I was. Although, 3 out of 4 ain't bad  ;)

I quickly went through the schedules and noticed PLU and LC were swept by Whit and split with UPS, Whitm, and GF...do they just keep going and I didn't look far enough, did I miss something, or how did LC get the 4 seed? I don't know if I've ever seen a tie-breaker go this far?

LC really snuck in the back door! I had them written off a month ago (yeah, Keandre, wrong again!). I really didn't see the GF collapse coming. The reward being a trip to Spokane. LC is athletic and talented enough to beat the Pirates, but Whitworth is has been playing it's best basketball as of late and the fieldhouse will be hostile. I really like the UPS v Whitman matchup...Logger fans better hope Bridgeland doesn't outcoach Lunt  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2012, 01:40:44 PM
Figured it out. Must have been looking at the wrong schedule while I was flipping between pages. PLU was swept by Whitman and LC split
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 19, 2012, 03:43:08 PM
Congrats to Felix on a great senior night. Would love to see WW win the league tourney and host the first AND second weekend. They got robbed in Wooster. 

Playball, good luck in spring ball.  Let us know where you end up playing.  It would be great to catch a game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 19, 2012, 07:06:04 PM
Been a while since Ive checked the board.   How about George Fox getting killed!!! by Linfield?! Love it.  Rough season for the Cats, hopefully Batuik and the younger guys work hard this off season to win some games next season. 

I know its a little early, but All Conference teams?  Time to start thinking about who your top 10-15 are!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2012, 10:20:40 PM
My Coach of the Year:
Logie - Whitworth

My MVP pick:
Friedt - Whitworth
Only other player that could be here IMO is D. Michaels. But Felix was more consistent from day 1 until now. He was clearly the best at his position in the conference and I don't feel like it was close.

My first team:

Friedt - Whitworth
Michaels - Whitman
Z Anderson - Linfield
Lasisi - Whitworth
Conti - PLU

The first 3 off my list would have been Mounts, Mike Taylor (GF) and Gebbers. Basically those were the guys who were a tossup for me when comparing them to the guys on the first team. Before Keandre s**ts a brick, Gittens is the next best true post, behind Friedt, but that just makes him the best 2nd teamer. I gave Lasisi the nod over Gebbers and Taylor just because he filled the stat box better and defensively I feel like he did a better job. I also punished M Taylor because of GF's collapse. I could only justify 1 guy from a 3-4 win team and so Anderson got the nod over Mounts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2012, 12:52:40 AM
I don't follow the other teams besides WW so I only know how the players played against the Bucs. Rat's list looks reasonable from what I saw, but I don't like all-star teams because I think it is hard to compare players like Conti and Gebbers. One is clearly the best player on an inferior team, but is his performance better than Gebbers who led his team to 15-1?  I'll take the 15-1. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 20, 2012, 02:56:43 AM
I would put Hollins above idris. Teams play whitworth to stop Gebbers and Felix, not idris.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2012, 09:07:19 AM
A Buc,

I don't mind all-star teams because they generally reward guys who deserve it and there are always a few who never had team success in college. I have no problem with them getting their moment in the sun. As for Gebbers and Conti; You are right about Conti being on an inferior team, which probably explains his higher ppg. But, that does NOT explain the fact that he led the league in total assists, a/TO ratio, and Steals...In fact, being on a lesser team, you would expect the assist and a/TO ratio to be worse than Gebbers. PLU wasn't terrible, they took Whitworth to OT once and to the last second another time. But you put Gebbers on that team and they probably aren't any better. So saying that Conti doesn't deserve a spot because he wasn't 15-1 is really poor reasoning.

Keandre,
That's the point of this exercise. Make your own "all-conference" team...and put Hollins on it. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I don't think you've ever made a prediction or shared an opinion on this site. Usually you just sit and wait until someone else is wrong, and then point it out. Grow a pair, make a bold pick or two...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 20, 2012, 02:01:35 PM
Got a pair. My all conference team is:
Felix
David Michaels
James Hollins
Gebbers
Michael Taylor

2nd team
Gittens
Taylor Mounts
Anderson from Linfield
Conti
Kaleb Shelton

Honorable Mention
Colin Wester
Cameron Schilling
Ross Erickson
PJ Taylor
Sanchez from Fox
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 20, 2012, 03:12:51 PM
By the way Rat, I'm a lawyer, it's my job to point out when someone is wrong lol
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2012, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 20, 2012, 02:01:35 PM
Got a pair. My all conference team is:
Felix
David Michaels
James Hollins
Gebbers
Michael Taylor

2nd team
Gittens
Taylor Mounts
Anderson from Linfield
Conti
Kaleb Shelton

Honorable Mention
Colin Wester
Cameron Schilling
Ross Erickson
PJ Taylor
Sanchez from Fox

+K for posting...and consider yourself lucky, in medicine we aren't allowed to tell patients they are wrong... ::) self-diagnosis via wikipedia is my personal favorite
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 20, 2012, 03:39:31 PM
1st Team

C- Felix-The anchor.
PF- Michaels- Video game-like stats overall and ridiculous in conference.
SF- Anderson- Lots of points, good rebounding, could start on any team in the conference.
SG- Lasisi- A do it all type guy for WW.  A BIG transfer/piece of the puzzle up there.
PG- Conti- I like Gebbers too, but if I had to pick one I would go with Conti.  Crafty PG who facilitates well with a very high A/TO ratio

2nd Team

C- Gittens-Defensive minded actual post guy. Not many in the conference this year. Good defensive player, and in any other system he would be getting 33+ mpg. Per minute averages are very good.
PF-Mounts- Not GREAT averages like I thought he might have this year, but then again they didnt have the assist monster Kunke there either. However, good numbers overall.  17 and 8, good for 2nd team.
SF-Shelton- Another guy who I thought was going to have a huge year and didn't quite.  With that said, very good offensive rebounder and shot over 50% in conference.
SG- Mike Taylor/James Hollins.  Both of these guys deserve a spot on the all conference team.  Taylor was fun to watch, very entertaining and could do it all.  Hollins scored and got rebounds at a high rate for a guard.  Both didnt shoot very high percentages, but both played huge roles on their teams.  Hollins is up here as the LC rep.
PG- Gebbers-VERY good point guard but is tough for me to put on 1st team since he already has two teammates up there.  Very good shooter and a defensive stalwart.  Good stats and would be 1st team any other year, but Conti was just a LITTLE better

Honorable Mention
Schilling- if his team made playoffs which they probably shouldve, he makes second team.  Great year from him and he surprised me with his improved 3 pt shooting ability.
Batuik-Good player, bad team.  Hardworker, will be a force for the next 3 years.
Wester- Bad team again.  Shot quite a few threes, which surprises me a little bit.  Very athletic and can get to the rim when he wants.  Good year nonetheless.

Things that surprised me from this year
Why doesn't Dart from Willamette get the ball more.  Always a high % guy.  They need a post game, there he was and only 5 shots a game.  Hopefully he will be more of a featured player in Ione's system.

And obviously as stated before, David Michaels getting after it this year. Wow!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2012, 08:41:53 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 20, 2012, 09:07:19 AM
A Buc,

I don't mind all-star teams because they generally reward guys who deserve it and there are always a few who never had team success in college. I have no problem with them getting their moment in the sun. As for Gebbers and Conti; You are right about Conti being on an inferior team, which probably explains his higher ppg. But, that does NOT explain the fact that he led the league in total assists, a/TO ratio, and Steals...In fact, being on a lesser team, you would expect the assist and a/TO ratio to be worse than Gebbers. PLU wasn't terrible, they took Whitworth to OT once and to the last second another time. But you put Gebbers on that team and they probably aren't any better. So saying that Conti doesn't deserve a spot because he wasn't 15-1 is really poor reasoning.


Rat,

Not poor reasoning at all to suggest that 15-1 is more important than a difference in scoring average of 0.1 or assists difference of 1 a game, etc. That stats difference between the two players is very marginal and IMHO winning supersedes all else.  The question is whether a player makes a difference in the Win/Loss column. That is a hard question to answer in most cases.  However, when two players have almost identical stats (I'm talking clinically significant difference vs statistically significant difference--we speak the same language so you know what I mean) and one team is 9-6 and the other is 15-1 then I'd give the edge to the point guard on the 15-1 team.

The other issue I have with all-star teams is how offense is valued over defense to such great degree.  The fact that Clay Gebbers was never even given honorable mention in his career at Whitworth demonstrates that point.

The other example that shows the difference between a 15-1 team and teams at the lower end of the league is playball's assertion that Zach Anderson would start on any team in the conference. Not sure that is true. Who would he start over on WW. Not Gebbers or Felix--not the right positions.  I'll take Lasisi over him any day--if Anderson had his athletic ability he'd be the starting QB for the Beavers and would not be playing basketball at Linfield.  When Larkin and Loofburrow weren't healthy he'd have started, but Loofburrow has height, weight, shooting, etc., all over Anderson.  With that offensive firepower you need the best defender on the team at that 5th spot. Had he played for WW would Anderson have beaten out Larkin for that last starting spot?  Not so sure. So a first team all league pick from a 3-13 team might not have started on the 15-1 team.  So Rat, that's why 15-1 matters and all-league teams are questionable.

After all that, I'll go with playbill's pick and give Conti the first team all-league position.  However, with the loss of Felix, Loofburrow, and Lasisi, if WW goes 15-1 next year, Gebbers is unquestionably the POTY next year (unless I can get Jeremy Lin's brother to transfer to WW).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2012, 08:51:53 PM
Look, as much as you don't like all-star teams I got you to comment on a couple of posters' lists and contribute...mission accomplished  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 20, 2012, 09:58:54 PM
Ok, what does everyone think about the games Thursday? Very good match up in Tacoma with Puget Sound and Whitman. I think LC is playing pretty well and if they can control themselves from taking bad shots, they will have a chance to compete.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2012, 10:27:17 PM
I've said this before, but a "traditional" lineup (with a true post in Gittens) presents problems for Whitman. I don't know if I said it about UPS specifically but that was a point I made last year after the Chapman guys were upset I said that I'd put money on Whitman to beat them. If this was 1 month ago I go Whitman. But since UPS was finally able to not only beat Whitman in Walla Walla, but also string together some impressive wins after, I'll pick the Loggers at home...by 5 after some last second FT's secure the W. I really hope I'm right. Whitman scares me (as a Whitworth fan) more than UPS does. I feel like I know what I can expect from the Loggers and across the board Whitworth has favorable matchups. With Whitman? Only the good Lord has any idea how they are gonna play against the Bucs on any given night  :-[

Whitworth is playing their best basketball of the season. At least offensively...83, 85, 79, 78, 82, 95, 76, 81, 93. Whitworth is very good defensively as well (#2 in ppg allowed, behind Whitman). Combine all of that with the atmosphere at the Fieldhouse and an LC victory is a longshot. I think this game ends up like the Willamette game last week. Close in the first half, Whitworth opens up a 10-11 point lead, then LC makes little runs throughout closing it to 6-8 on occasion. Whitworth ends up winning by 15

Then we reminisce, as the Pirates and the Loggers square off for another NWC tournament championship.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 20, 2012, 11:10:57 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2012, 08:41:53 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 20, 2012, 09:07:19 AM
A Buc,

I don't mind all-star teams because they generally reward guys who deserve it and there are always a few who never had team success in college. I have no problem with them getting their moment in the sun. As for Gebbers and Conti; You are right about Conti being on an inferior team, which probably explains his higher ppg. But, that does NOT explain the fact that he led the league in total assists, a/TO ratio, and Steals...In fact, being on a lesser team, you would expect the assist and a/TO ratio to be worse than Gebbers. PLU wasn't terrible, they took Whitworth to OT once and to the last second another time. But you put Gebbers on that team and they probably aren't any better. So saying that Conti doesn't deserve a spot because he wasn't 15-1 is really poor reasoning.


Rat,

Not poor reasoning at all to suggest that 15-1 is more important than a difference in scoring average of 0.1 or assists difference of 1 a game, etc. That stats difference between the two players is very marginal and IMHO winning supersedes all else.  The question is whether a player makes a difference in the Win/Loss column. That is a hard question to answer in most cases.  However, when two players have almost identical stats (I'm talking clinically significant difference vs statistically significant difference--we speak the same language so you know what I mean) and one team is 9-6 and the other is 15-1 then I'd give the edge to the point guard on the 15-1 team.

The other issue I have with all-star teams is how offense is valued over defense to such great degree.  The fact that Clay Gebbers was never even given honorable mention in his career at Whitworth demonstrates that point.

The other example that shows the difference between a 15-1 team and teams at the lower end of the league is playball's assertion that Zach Anderson would start on any team in the conference. Not sure that is true. Who would he start over on WW. Not Gebbers or Felix--not the right positions.  I'll take Lasisi over him any day--if Anderson had his athletic ability he'd be the starting QB for the Beavers and would not be playing basketball at Linfield.  When Larkin and Loofburrow weren't healthy he'd have started, but Loofburrow has height, weight, shooting, etc., all over Anderson.  With that offensive firepower you need the best defender on the team at that 5th spot. Had he played for WW would Anderson have beaten out Larkin for that last starting spot?  Not so sure. So a first team all league pick from a 3-13 team might not have started on the 15-1 team.  So Rat, that's why 15-1 matters and all-league teams are questionable.

After all that, I'll go with playbill's pick and give Conti the first team all-league position.  However, with the loss of Felix, Loofburrow, and Lasisi, if WW goes 15-1 next year, Gebbers is unquestionably the POTY next year (unless I can get Jeremy Lin's brother to transfer to WW).

Id put Anderson over Loofburrow for sure!  Anderson has a mid range game and is able to create his own shot.  From what Ive seen, Loofburrow doesn't create or have much mid range.  Hes a catch and shoot guy.  Andrson also can operate in the post.  I would be surprised if Loofburrow spent half his minutes anywhere near the rim, its not really his game and it isnt needed by the WW system.  He is a good player, but the averages by anderson are more impressive since it was for a much higher volume of shots.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 21, 2012, 12:08:52 AM
I agree Rat, but, if the loggers can win, what can they do to beat WW in Spokane?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 21, 2012, 12:17:00 AM
LC can get hot and beat anyone, but hard to sustain for a full game against someone like WW.  I'm not worried about Thursday night (famous last words). However, Saturday night will be tough with either team. UPS is solid and getting better.  Whitman scares all WW fans.

Playball, I see why you say that Loofburrow does not have a mid-range or inside game, but you're mistaken.  The problem is he doesn't like to work hard on getting inside. He'd rather catch and shoot. I think the best part of his game is inside. Hayford made him play inside.  Logie has decided to just let him hang outside.  I don't think he's as effective this way, but it seems to be working.

I do have to give Anderson credit for scoring 11 and 24 against WW this year.  Last year's league leading scorer had a little trouble scoring on them. ;)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2012, 12:22:27 AM
Starting to get tired of your zings.  Loofburrow didn't play much inside last year either, at least against us and all the film I watched. 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 21, 2012, 12:17:54 PM
Sorry about the zing.  Can't be worse than a baseball locker room though.

I'm not saying Loofburrow goes inside much, but when he does, Whitworth is at their best and he's the hardest player on their team to stop. I'm hoping that he gets inside in the league playoffs. If he does I don't think anyone in the conference will stand a chance against WW. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2012, 12:39:16 PM
We find other instances of failure to pick on! haha 

I dont think WW's chances hinge on Loofburrow at all.  They are going to win the NWC championship, regular season and tournament, I have no doubt.  They have done just fine with him out, as reflected in their overall record.  I dont really see him as a very good defensive player (I could be wrong, but he didnt stick out as a stopper), and WW already has three scorers in Gebbers, Lasisi, and Felix.  Im sure it would be nice to have him step up and do well as its always good to have all hands on deck, especially in the tournament atmosphere.  The more the better!  He is a very good player, but his individual success from here on out is just an added bonus to that team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 21, 2012, 05:55:55 PM
Hollins over Gebbers and Conti ! That is crazy! So Defense does not matter its all about points! I would like to see someone justify that pick. I can live with the others! JOKE!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 21, 2012, 06:03:46 PM
Over Taylor Mounts also! This is more than ridulous it is STUPID! I think mounts had 9 double doubles! Not the kids fault! This is an all league team not an all potential team!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2012, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: etule on February 21, 2012, 06:03:46 PM
Over Taylor Mounts also! This is more than ridulous it is STUPID! I think mounts had 9 double doubles! Not the kids fault! This is an all league team not an all potential team!

Wow, Mounts got passed over completely! Honorable mention is questionable for that kid.  I guess the way you have to look at it is at least one first teamer from each of the playoff teams.  Like I said last year, I wish they would show total votes and the vote breakdown.  Example, how many 1st 2nd 3rd ect votes.

Besides Hollins being a first teamer, Im ok with the way things turned out....  As if I had some sway anyhow! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2012, 06:19:45 PM
And for those who aren't sure what we are looking at

http://nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/allnwc

Enjoy
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 21, 2012, 06:41:36 PM
Quote from: playball on February 21, 2012, 06:19:00 PM
Like I said last year, I wish they would show total votes and the vote breakdown.  Example, how many 1st 2nd 3rd ect votes.

Even though it doesn't show point totals the order the players are listed is how they placed when the coaches votes were totaled.  At least, that seems to be how it works with football and within each position group.

I know that Steve (Whitworth's SID) take a look at the boards from time to time.  Maybe he could confirm that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2012, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 21, 2012, 06:41:36 PM
Quote from: playball on February 21, 2012, 06:19:00 PM
Like I said last year, I wish they would show total votes and the vote breakdown.  Example, how many 1st 2nd 3rd ect votes.

Even though it doesn't show point totals the order the players are listed is how they placed when the coaches votes were totaled.  At least, that seems to be how it works with football and within each position group.

I know that Steve (Whitworth's SID) take a look at the boards from time to time.  Maybe he could confirm that.

You are correct Cat! However, Im trying to see how close it would be separating the last guy on first team and the first guy on second team.  The points would accurately show that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 21, 2012, 07:05:04 PM
Just to clarify how bad this is- Conti- 2011/12 -Asst-118-Hollins career-126-- Steals Conti 2011/12-67- Hollins 91 career-
Nationally 11/12- conti-52nd Asst- 14th in Steals and 28th asst/TO ratio!

If he got it because they are a playoff team then they need to take a look at how they do this vote! PLU and L/C had the same league record and split on the year!
I do not mean to dis on Hollins he is a good player the people who picked the teams put him in an unjustifiable position! There were at least three kids that should have gotten the nod over him!

Like an earlier poster said Gebbers got no love for his Defense and we wonder why players only want to score. Because that is what get rewarded! Point in fact!

Enough said it was a great year and the playoffs should be fun! ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 21, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
What I have never understood is how you have more first team guys than you have positions on the court? Especially when you don't have a PG in those 6. If you are going to put 6 guys on the first team, Conti or Gebbers has to make that list. Some conferences will do it in football as well, I've never understood it.

On a different note, nothing about Shelton this year screamed 1st-team. He's a pre-season 1st team type of guy, but not one once 2011-2012 actually played out. While I would disagree with Hollins, it's not the worst selection I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2012, 07:32:15 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 21, 2012, 07:22:57 PM
What I have never understood is how you have more first team guys than you have positions on the court? Especially when you don't have a PG in those 6. If you are going to put 6 guys on the first team, Conti or Gebbers has to make that list. Some conferences will do it in football as well, I've never understood it.

On a different note, nothing about Shelton this year screamed 1st-team. He's a pre-season 1st team type of guy, but not one once 2011-2012 actually played out. While I would disagree with Hollins, it's not the worst selection I've ever seen.

Since you bring it up Rat, who was the worst? haha
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 21, 2012, 07:57:52 PM
Jobe over Mounts doesn't fly either! I can live with Shelton! Even though I agree that this was not his best year! Jobe over Mounts is as bad as the Hollins pick!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2012, 12:49:26 AM
Interesting how the coaches perceive the players vs how we perceive them. They probably rate players on how much they worry about stopping them vs how well they perform.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2012, 09:09:13 AM
Quote from: Keandre on February 21, 2012, 12:08:52 AM
I agree Rat, but, if the loggers can win, what can they do to beat WW in Spokane?

That's the million $ question. I guess they'd have to get Felix in foul trouble, have Gittens go off for 20-25, and hit 40% of their 3 pt attempts. Basically, they need to play their best game of the season and hope Whitworth is tired, flat, etc. But it's definitely not out of the question. UPS should be all kinds of fired up to play that game if they can get past Whitman...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 22, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2012, 12:49:26 AM
Interesting how the coaches perceive the players vs how we perceive them. They probably rate players on how much they worry about stopping them vs how well they perform.
Nobody stopped Gebbers or Conti this year! Conti's line this last weekend- 30 pts 19 asst 13 steals 2 turnovers. And they have Hollins above him for Player of the week! Obviously Asst and steals don't impress the NWC coaches! As you kidding me! Guess they had to justify their choice! LOL
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 23, 2012, 12:59:09 PM
Whitman over UPS  83-72
Who will guard Michaels?

WW over LC   74-60
WW crowd gets to Hollins as he goes 3-15 for 8 pts

WW over Whitman Saturday 79-74
Gebbers hits 5 threes and dishes out 8 assists for the Championship.  Loofburrow ends up with 5 pts, 2 boards
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 23, 2012, 02:38:37 PM
I agree Whitman wins and WW wins Gebbers shuts down Hollins!  PJ is very good but not enough!
WW beats Whitman Make Michaels beat you off the bounce!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 23, 2012, 03:28:36 PM
UPS is playing well right now.  They are at home. Going with UPS.

WW better have their perimeter defense jacked up and not let LC get hot. A few years ago LC had that one player on their team with the tattoo on his shoulder that said "CHIP".  Yes, he had a chip on his shoulder  :D  He almost shot LC to victory over WW by himself. Hollins could do the same. Hope WW doesn't give him a chance.

WW over UPS on Saturday. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 23, 2012, 04:40:31 PM
UPS gets out coached tonight!Gebbers will lock up Hollins and he will jack up crazy shots! It will have to be PJ or Holmes or both. They have the ability to do it.  I think WW wins if they play smart and go inside!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 23, 2012, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 23, 2012, 03:28:36 PM
UPS is playing well right now.  They are at home. Going with UPS.

WW better have their perimeter defense jacked up and not let LC get hot. A few years ago LC had that one player on their team with the tattoo on his shoulder that said "CHIP".  Yes, he had a chip on his shoulder  :D  He almost shot LC to victory over WW by himself. Hollins could do the same. Hope WW doesn't give him a chance.

WW over UPS on Saturday.

David Bergren is the guy you are talking about.  He had a few prison looking tats!  Got huge after his soph. season.  Hopefully PJ can get hot and make it closer than I predicted after he kind of had a step back year.  Hoping for a good one.
Pretty sure WW rolls them though.

Is there a live feed?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2012, 07:27:10 PM
Live feed links (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball/livefeed.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 23, 2012, 07:41:20 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 23, 2012, 07:27:10 PM
Live feed links (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball/livefeed.htm)

You know what Rat, you aren't half bad! ;)
Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 23, 2012, 11:47:31 PM
The Bucs were solid tonight. Lasisi dominant.  Fun to watch online.  Three minutes left with UPS vs Whitman. Looks like UPS vs WW on Saturday.  Should be a good game. I'll have to miss it.  My daughter's team is playing that night.

Scary thought for the night.  Had Hayford stayed at Whitworth, Parker Kelly, the leading scoring for Gonzaga Prep's State Championship team from last year would have come to Whitworth.  He had 17 tonight for Eastern Washington against Idaho State.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Logsfan1 on February 24, 2012, 01:50:52 AM
It was a messy game in Tacoma, lots of fouls and a long second half.  Both the Logger big guys were in foul trouble early and were gone early in the second half, but UPS controlled Whitman (but not Michaels, who was great) from start to finish.  Whitman played aggressively, as Bridgeland's teams always do, but Puget Sound was equally hard-nosed, and, man for man, just better.  I've been watching Puget Sound basketball for a long time, and while this isn't the best UPS team by a long shot, it's a tough group and I think Coach Lunt deserves some props for that.  Taking nothing away from Coach Bridgeland, who I have great respect for and who brought exciting basketball to Tacoma after some dismal years, I don't worry going into a game against Whitman that Puget Sound is going to be outcoached.  This season, when talent-wise you could argue for a close match between the teams, Lunt was 3 and 0.  I'm not optimistic about the trip to Spokane, but I did see UPS play about 28 good minutes against WW early in the season and I think the team is significantly better now than it was back then.  I think they have a puncher's chance of making it a game.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2012, 07:56:31 AM
UPS is playing their best basketball of the season.

After the first 5 minutes, Whitworth reminded LC why they won more games than everyone else in the conference.

This one feels like old times, and by that I mean 3-4 years ago lol. Should be a good one in Spokane. I expect UPS to travel a little better than LC did. Expect a packed house Saturday night. If UPS shoots like they did last night then this one will come down to FT's at the end of the game.

Whitworth by 10
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 24, 2012, 10:12:12 AM
UPS made it very difficult for anyone but Michaels to score. With that said, they made him take tough, contested shots. He didn't shoot good at all but got to the line a lot. UPS bigs Yarbro and Gittens fouled out with around 8 minutes to play. With them gone, Whitman executed what they wanted to do all game and get them fouled out. After that, it was all coaching. Lunt out coached the Whitman Coach. Lunt made adjustments and Whitman did not. The guards from UPS hit big 3's down the stretch and kept attacking the rim. They pushed the ball down the floor and were attacking Whitman as well. Then, Michaels fouled out. after that, it was a wrap. Great game for UPS, they help Whitman in all 3 games to less than 67 points.

Great matchup Saturday. UPS is playing their best ball, Whitworth is playing their best ball. It will be a battle and am looking forward to this one. UPS by 4
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 24, 2012, 06:55:30 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 24, 2012, 10:12:12 AM
UPS made it very difficult for anyone but Michaels to score. With that said, they made him take tough, contested shots. He didn't shoot good at all but got to the line a lot. UPS bigs Yarbro and Gittens fouled out with around 8 minutes to play. With them gone, Whitman executed what they wanted to do all game and get them fouled out. After that, it was all coaching. Lunt out coached the Whitman Coach. Lunt made adjustments and Whitman did not. The guards from UPS hit big 3's down the stretch and kept attacking the rim. They pushed the ball down the floor and were attacking Whitman as well. Then, Michaels fouled out. after that, it was a wrap. Great game for UPS, they help Whitman in all 3 games to less than 67 points.

Great matchup Saturday. UPS is playing their best ball, Whitworth is playing their best ball. It will be a battle and am looking forward to this one. UPS by 4

Didnt shoot good at all?  He shot 50% from the field and 3 point line.  If thats not that good, all but 7 of the players in the conference aren't that good for the season.  With THAT said, huge win for UPS and now lets see if they can win away from Tacoma where they have gone 11-1.  6-4 on the road however.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 24, 2012, 08:02:17 PM
He missed a lot of gimme shots that were point blank range and bricked 2 wide open 3's pretty bad, that is what I mean by shot bad. Not his percentages because he should have been at least 12-14 with only the 2 3's he missed. But you are right, it will be a battle for UPS to win on the road but I think they will give a much better performance than last game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 24, 2012, 10:25:14 PM
Whitworth shot 28% from the field and 26% from the three point line. Hard to win doing that. That being said I agree that UPS is a physical team and Lunt did a good coaching job! Yarbo came up big again for UPS! Shelton is a tough minded kid!
Im surprised that Hollins did not dominate WW!

I think that UPS has a chance this year. Two NWC teams in tourney would be awesome!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 25, 2012, 02:09:36 AM
Quote from: etule on February 24, 2012, 10:25:14 PM
Whitworth shot 28% from the field and 26% from the three point line. Hard to win doing that. That being said I agree that UPS is a physical team and Lunt did a good coaching job! Yarbo came up big again for UPS! Shelton is a tough minded kid!
Im surprised that Hollins did not dominate WW!

I think that UPS has a chance this year. Two NWC teams in tourney would be awesome!

That would be great for the NWC! If that happens do you think it would be a four team pod or a three team somewhere?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2012, 11:56:23 AM
I think it becomes a 4 team pod in Spokane with Whit, UPS, CMS, and the lowest seeded between the WIAC/MIAC teams that get in. Basically a repeat of 2007
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on February 25, 2012, 01:24:36 PM
That would be fun! Those mid-west teams are good! CMS is physical this year and dangerous! I hope it happens!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2012, 03:58:21 PM
I disagree with the great for the NWC sentiment. They would be paired up in the first or second round in the NW. No additional national exposure, and credibility doesn't play in to future tourney selections (as much as the SCIAC guys think it does). There really isn't anything to gain by getting two teams in, well except for a boost to Keandre's self-esteem  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 25, 2012, 06:47:02 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2012, 03:58:21 PM
I disagree with the great for the NWC sentiment. They would be paired up in the first or second round in the NW. No additional national exposure, and credibility doesn't play in to future tourney selections (as much as the SCIAC guys think it does). There really isn't anything to gain by getting two teams in, well except for a boost to Keandre's self-esteem  ;D

I feel that is good for the NWC, like I said earlier.  I think this because the more players we can get playing in that type of atmosphere the better.  Pays off in the long run.  Also, it ups the likeliness of a NWC team moving on, even with a potential second round match up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2012, 11:33:34 AM
The Pirates are playing very efficient ball right now. Great to see them hitting their stride as they enter the tournament. It will be interesting to see how deep this team goes.  On paper last year's team was better (ranked #1 at this time instead of #10) but last year they were getting tight and not playing their best ball at this point in the season. This team could get hot and go deep.

It will also be interesting to see where the NCAA sends the Pirates.  I hope they get to host the first weekend. The only problem is who will be the other team or teams in the first weekend pod besides CMS?  It might be cheaper to send CMS and WW to some Midwest site.  Worse is having CMS travel to Spokane on Thursday and the winner going somewhere else.  I think hosting the 2nd weekend is not even a long shot.  Getting to the final four is rough when you have to travel across the country and play teams on their home turf.  For the most part it is has been the level of play and travel that have beaten the Bucs on the road. However, last year the refs entered into the game also. Hard to beat a team like Wooster when the refs keep making momentum changing calls (or non-calls) every time you are in the middle of a run.

Congrats to UPS.  They were playing great ball a the end of the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2012, 01:08:44 PM
Whitworth is ranked high enough to at least host a first round game against CMS. I doubt the get a 4 team sectional as that would require 3 flights to Spokane. The last time only 1 NWC team and 1 SCIAC/Pool C Chapman team made the tourney, each was sent to a Midwest/South site for the 1st two rounds. Whitworth went to Wash U that year and Oxy to Mississippi. I would NOT be surprised if it happened again this year just because it saves $$$ depending on who the NCAA can bus to those sectional sites...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 09:03:46 AM
Personally, I'm a big fan of the bracket projection done by d3hoops. It gives Whitworth a first round bye, a fair second round matchup, and then a pod in the midwest (Ill, Wisc, MO). The d3hoops guys know their stuff, but the NCAA selection committee always seems to have a few surprises in store. They've been good to WAY out West teams for the last couple years, hopefully that trend continues...we'll know at 12 EST
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 12:13:02 PM
Well, Whitworth gets hosed. Better book your flights to Texas! First round against McMurry, in Belton. UMHB will play Trinity in the other first round game

Va Wesleyan gets the bye in Whitworth's section of the bracket. So if Whitworth wins and then we get chalk:

Whit v McMurry
Whit v UMHB
Whit v Va Wesleyan
Whit v UWW
Whit v. Amherst

ouch
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 27, 2012, 01:25:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 09:03:46 AM
Personally, I'm a big fan of the bracket projection done by d3hoops. It gives Whitworth a first round bye, a fair second round matchup, and then a pod in the midwest (Ill, Wisc, MO).

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 12:13:02 PM
Well, Whitworth gets hosed.

ouch

How was that elevator ride?

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 01:27:51 PM
I can't believe I let everyone talk me out of my original thought...you included! You are all partly to blame! Especially that bald SCIAC ref, it's mostly his fault...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2012, 02:01:58 PM
Rat,

Don't you think the term "hosed" is a bit of an understatement in this case!!!! WW goes to Texas and their second game play the #5 team in the nation.  In a 62 team field that is the equivalent of a 2 seed and a 3 seed playing in the second round. 

CMS got the same deal as us.  Second round game against what would be 2 seed.

Does the AD from Wooster set this up?  Wooster, ranked #19 plays at home and no one in their bracket is even ranked. This is like a 5 seed getting to play teams seeded in the teens all the way to the sweet-16.  Nice.  They will probably play their second weekend games at home also.  Tough place to come in a win a game.  They will only have to win one tough game to get to the final 4. Kind of like last year.

I get the fact that the Wisconsin schools deserve 3 teams in the tournament.  However, why can't the NWC or the SCIAC get 2?  UPS beat their conference tournament champion.  UPS's only non-league loss was to a SCIAC team.  I guess the key to being ranked highly is to:
1.  Be from the East Coast.
2.  Play bad teams out of league
3.  Play in a weak league

Pretty much describes #3 MIT

To get to the round of 8, the highest ranked team MIT plays will be #23.  Amherst plays no ranked teams to get to the round of 8. There are a total of 3 ranked teams in the MIT/Amherst bracket to get to the final 4.  You could say that Amherst does have to get by #3 MIT to get to the final 4, but that is a weak #3.  In the Whitworth/CMS there are 6 ranked teams.  Does anyone wonder why the far west teams have such a hard time getting to the final 4?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 27, 2012, 02:16:53 PM
Well, to be honest, I think the west coast teams get the shaft due to their being a higher number of east coast teams in division 3.  The large number of NAIA teams out west really makes things difficult to get in region non conference wins as well as non region wins.  The "valley schools" always have to have quite a few NAIA teams, which are scholarship, every year.  This torpedoes all chances of them to get any kind of division three recognition.  A 15-10 record easily gets overlooked, even if the majority of those loses are against kids who are being paid.  If/when those NAIA schools out here go to NCAA is when the west coast gets some kind of recognition.  Until then, we travel at their mercy.  Which sucks
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mcmfan on February 27, 2012, 02:49:07 PM
In terms of getting hosed, you seem not to have noticed that UMHB is hosting even though they were knocked out of our conference tournament in the second round, and didn't even make the final game.  But of course, when we at McMurry beat you, it won't matter...  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 02:53:49 PM
Whitworth's football, soccer, and softball teams have all experienced many of the same issues.

Whitworth's "corner" of the bracket includes 5 teams ranked in the top 11 going into this weekend...5...Must be nice playing out east  :o

There really is no point to schedule tough out of conference teams. Look at NYU's wSOS...They finished with the same number of conference losses as UPS, had a weak out of conference schedule but play in a notoriously strong conference so....I guess they get the nod over a handful of more deserving teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 03:09:30 PM
McMurry's lineup looks a lot like Whitman's (minus anyone who resembles D Michaels). Your guards will probably cause the most problems for Whitworth. If they can get into the lane and get Freidt in foul trouble then you all could very well pull this one out. I wouldn't expect McMurry to have the same kind of success rebounding the ball against a bigger and disciplined Whitworth team, but Steven Jones must put his rather stout frame to good use, pulling down 9 rb/g. Whitworth will also shoot the ball better than most (if not all teams) you guys have seen all season. I would bet Saville gets more minutes than normal in order to stop Freidt, I don't know if any of your regular starters are capable of doing it...

But I have a question...is Steven Jones really 6-3 270??? Guy's a bowling ball!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mcmfan on February 27, 2012, 03:44:14 PM
Jones is heavy.  Here's a pic of him: http://www.mcmurrysports.com/news/2012/2/20/MBB_0220120653.aspx?path=mbball
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2012, 03:48:42 PM
Might as well stop whining and get ready to enjoy the games.  The good part is WW gets to play good quality opponents along the way.  It will be great watching some well played, completive games (unlike my daughter's sectional quarterfinal where they held their opponent to 7 at the half).  Will the game be streamed?  Looking forward to seeing Felix battle a 6'3" 270 pounder. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cover2 on February 27, 2012, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: mcmfan on February 27, 2012, 02:49:07 PM
In terms of getting hosed, you seem not to have noticed that UMHB is hosting even though they were knocked out of our conference tournament in the second round, and didn't even make the final game.  But of course, when we at McMurry beat you, it won't matter...  ;D

mcmfan, I think most people figured UMHB would host due to their regional ranking and only having 2 losses on the season.  Much like the D1 conference tourneys don't typically matter for seeding in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 06:04:55 PM
A buc and playball, your opinions are wanted over on the South Region, American Southwest Conference board...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mcmfan on February 27, 2012, 06:23:11 PM
Yeah, just inter-conference rivalry.  Last year we beat UMHB for the conference title and then they came to McM for our first post-season game (after we got a bye) and beat us.  This year, we split during the season and then beat them in the second round of the conference tournament.  Given these odds, assuming we beat WW, it will be our turn to lose again to them.  But, hey, this is what makes this sport interesting!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 27, 2012, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 06:04:55 PM
A buc and playball, your opinions are wanted over on the South Region, American Southwest Conference board...

You did a pretty good job Rat.  But thanks!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 06:41:47 PM
See playball, you actually KNOW what you are talking about when it comes to hoops. I just pretend to know what I'm talking about and people (for some reason) choose to believe me...occasionally
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 28, 2012, 12:20:39 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 06:41:47 PM
See playball, you actually KNOW what you are talking about when it comes to hoops. I just pretend to know what I'm talking about and people (for some reason) choose to believe me...occasionally

Gee Rat, thats the nicest thing you've ever said to me!  +K if I could...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Logsfan1 on February 28, 2012, 02:39:47 AM
I wish WW well.  Great team, the Belgian guy is tremendous (and what is he doing playing in D3?), and I readily acknowledge WW's superiority in the NWC.  On the other hand, Puget Sound played River Falls on a neutral floor (empty gym at PLU over the holidays) and beat them, score much closer than the game.  The Loggers finished second in a tough conference, and even beat the guys with "March" printed on their warmup jerseys three times.  ;).  I could almost understand if WW had the home court that it made no sense to have them beat UPS again, but given the way things played out I think UPS and NWC got jobbed. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 28, 2012, 09:13:36 AM
Quote from: Logsfan1 on February 28, 2012, 02:39:47 AM
I wish WW well.  Great team, the Belgian guy is tremendous (and what is he doing playing in D3?), and I readily acknowledge WW's superiority in the NWC.  On the other hand, Puget Sound played River Falls on a neutral floor (empty gym at PLU over the holidays) and beat them, score much closer than the game.  The Loggers finished second in a tough conference, and even beat the guys with "March" printed on their warmup jerseys three times.  ;).  I could almost understand if WW had the home court that it made no sense to have them beat UPS again, but given the way things played out I think UPS and NWC got jobbed.

Great win for them early and I also agree the NWC gets hosed and does so year in a and year out.  While it counts as a neutral floor, thats kind of a stretch considering.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2012, 09:32:53 AM
UPS just needed to take care of business early on and in conference. If you beat Redlands and win any one of the following: Whitman, PLU, GF, LC and you have a legitimate Pool C case. It could have allowed for a 4 team pod in Spokane. Which I would have been all for, simply for the chance to show the NCAA that Whitworth is a viable hosting site. The city loves their basketball and with Whitworth being a top 4-5 program in terms of average attendance, the NCAA may find they make more of their money back with Whit hosting than other sites that require a flight and a long bus ride or two...

If you are REALLY upset at Whitworth (and UPS if you feel that way  ;) ) getting jobbed. Please email PACIFIC Athletic Director, Ken Schumann. He was the selection committee chair. You never know what goes on behind closed doors, but the d3hoops guys found a way to give Whitworth a bye and not exceed the first round flight limit. You would think Schumann and co. could have done the same. I won't be letting him know how I feel since PC and Dave, made him sound like a buffoon on several occasions last night...they made my point for me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 28, 2012, 10:19:45 AM
You would think that beating UW River Falls and controlling them the entire game would give UPS a better chance at making the tournament but I think that 3 game slide when they lost at home to WW and then on the road to PLU and GF hurt them pretty bad. And yes, they made Schumann look like a clown. Not too hard to do though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 29, 2012, 03:12:07 AM
Quote from: Keandre on February 28, 2012, 10:19:45 AM
You would think that beating UW River Falls and controlling them the entire game would give UPS a better chance at making the tournament but I think that 3 game slide when they lost at home to WW and then on the road to PLU and GF hurt them pretty bad. And yes, they made Schumann look like a clown. Not too hard to do though.

I think UW River Falls got in by winning the conference tournament.  Had they not, they would not have made it in.  This is the same situation the NWC had in 2008.   A highly ranked UPS team lost to the Good Guys in the conference and still got into the NCAA tournament.  Had the Good Guys not won the conference tournament, they would not have gotten in. 

Playball, as for the issue of whether a school should go DIII or stay NAIA, it is a tough decision.   If you go DIII you have to have a good enough school that you will attract great students that want to play ball.   That means that the combination of academics and academic scholarships has to be of high enough quality a kid is going to choose your school over some place like LCstate or Central Washington when they are offering money.  That's why the NWC schools can go DIII and still get good enough athletes to play competitive college ball. Those NAIA schools you  you play would be pretty bad without the scholarships.

I don't know if the this is the whole story, but awhile back Seattle Univ went DIII and could not make it.  They went to DII since they felt they could be competitive in that conference if they gave scholarships (which they were).  Now they are DI.   Basically shows that it is hard to maintain high level athletics and academics without scholarships.  Great to see schools like the NWC doing so. 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2012, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 29, 2012, 03:12:07 AM
I think UW River Falls got in by winning the conference tournament. Had they not, they would not have made it in.

Not true. Not true at all. UWRF was ranked third in last week's West Region ranking, which was the last regional ranking released to the public. The week before, UWRF was ranked first in the West Region ranking.

If UWRF had not won the WIAC tourney, it would've gotten one of the earlier Pool C berths.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 29, 2012, 01:34:30 PM
They are ranked this week so you are right UWRF would have received a pool C bid. Last week they weren't ranked. The wins in their conference tournament sprung them up.   Had UPS been ranked 17, my guess is they would have received a bid also.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 29, 2012, 01:38:19 PM
Buc: The D3hoops.com Top 25 has no bearing on the NCAA Tournament selections.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2012, 01:47:58 PM
What Pat said.

The only relevant rankings are the regional rankings released by the NCAA. There are three rankings released to the public, and a fourth ranking made this past weekend as part of the Pool C selection process that was supposed to be released to the public, but wasn't.

In the first West Region ranking, taken three weeks ago, UWRF was #1.

In the second West Region ranking, taken two weeks ago, UWRF was #1.

In the third West Region ranking, taken last week, UWRF was #3.

The Falcons were never in danger of missing the D3 tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Logsfan1 on February 29, 2012, 08:20:41 PM
Yup.

http://loggerathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/boxscores/20111126_xlw9.xml
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 01, 2012, 03:38:59 PM
The win over UWRF's should have put UPS in the tournament.  Just looking at the numbers, UPS has as good or better record than UWRF.  However, when you look at who UWRF played, it was a tougher schedule than UPS's. .  It is going to be hard for the NWC to get those Pool C bids unless teams play a very tough non-league schedule like WW does. However, that takes money which gets us back to playbill's point.  If the NWC wants to be a high profile DIII conference, they need to invest more.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2012, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 01, 2012, 03:38:59 PM
The win over UWRF's should have put UPS in the tournament.

None of the various numbers-crunchers who study the Pool C selection process and make their predictions as to which teams will get Pool C berths and which ones won't, including d3boards.com guru Pat Coleman, had Puget Sound listed as being one of the teams that had a realistic shot at getting into the tournament. UPS simply didn't measure up in terms of the criteria that the selection committee uses.

Puget Sound was ranked eighth in the West Region's third ranking. That's far too low to "get to the table" as the nineteen Pool C bids are distributed by the selection committee. Furthermore, the Loggers went 1-1 in the week between the third ranking and Selection Day, which means that, if anything, they probably dropped even lower than eighth in the final, unseen West Region ranking.

Long story short: The Loggers never had a prayer of getting into the tournament, except by winning the NWC's automatic berth.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 01, 2012, 03:38:59 PMJust looking at the numbers, UPS has as good or better record than UWRF.  However, when you look at who UWRF played, it was a tougher schedule than UPS's.

UPS did not have as good a record as did UWRF, according to the primary criteria used both by the regional committee that makes the West Region rankings and the national selection committee that actually selects the Pool C at-large teams on Selection Day. The committees use in-region winning percentage as one of those primary criteria. UPS went 15-7 against in-region foes, for an in-region winning percentage of .682. UWRF went 20-5 against in-region opponents, for an in-region winning percentage of .800. Those numbers aren't even close.

Puget Sound did own one of the primary criteria -- head-to-head results -- over UW-River Falls, but, other than that, UWRF had a far superior resume.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 01, 2012, 03:38:59 PMIt is going to be hard for the NWC to get those Pool C bids unless teams play a very tough non-league schedule like WW does.

This is true. But, more to the point, NWC teams need to play schedules that are better tailored to the requirements of D3. In other words, they need to play more in-region games. The five games that UPS played against Portland Bible (twice), Evergreen State (twice), and New Hope Christian were useless. Those aren't even D3 schools at all, let alone in-region D3 schools.

The Northwest Conference is a geographical outlier, and thus has difficulty in finding games against other D3 teams without using plane flights to get to them. That is a serious problem, a problem that this league shares with the SCIAC and the ASC. But, as you say, it's a matter of investment. If NWC teams want to better their chances of landing Pool C bids, they'll have to schedule more strategically and put the money into their travel budget to fly places where D3 opponents -- especially West Region D3 opponents -- are available.

It can be done. Of Whitworth's 25 regular-season games, 24 were against D3 opponents, and 23 of those 24 were against West Region opponents. The Pirates managed to pick up games against non-conference West Region foes UW-Whitewater, Chapman, UC-Santa Cruz, Northwestern, Southwestern, Washington (MO), and Cal Lutheran.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2012, 04:26:13 PM
Feel free to come to Vegas, for example, for the D3hoops.com Classic. We'll make sure you get D-III games and as many regional games as possible. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on March 01, 2012, 07:24:35 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2012, 04:15:38 PM
Of Whitworth's 25 regular-season games, 24 were against D3 opponents, and 23 of those 24 were against West Region opponents. The Pirates managed to pick up games against non-conference West Region foes [...] Washington (MO) [...]

I only wish. Not that I need another excuse to travel out to the Evergreen State.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2012, 11:39:51 AM
Best wishes for safe travel to Texas, Whitworth fans.

I posted elsewhere that I thought that Whitworth deserved a chance to host at least one game, even if it were a bye/home seeding.

As acknowledgement of geographical contingencies, I think that they got an equitable "second option" in their first round game.  McMurry is a very beatable first round foe for Whitworth. We will not match as favorably with Whitworth as we might have matched up elsewhere.  This is a real #5/#12 game (or even #4/#13 game) for bracketing sake.

(I can always root for a #12 upset!)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 02, 2012, 11:48:58 AM
Good luck to Whitworth! They have the pieces I hope they play well and do WW and the NWC proud! :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2012, 08:19:38 PM
Final Withworth 90 McMurry 79. It was a Whitworth 2-possession game until the last 2 minutes.

Freidt is outstanding.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2012, 10:22:13 PM
Friedt with 35 tonight... :o

I don't know if anyone outside of close Whitworth supporters really understands how far Friedt has come since his freshman year. I mean, we are talking about a guy that had a nice touch and used his body well to rebound but traveled constantly and didn't play great with his back to the basket. Amazing to watch him get better every year, huge congrats to him and both coaching staffs. "Impressed" doesn't even begin to describe it...bravo
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 02, 2012, 10:40:01 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 02, 2012, 10:22:13 PM
Friedt with 35 tonight... :o

I don't know if anyone outside of close Whitworth supporters really understands how far Friedt has come since his freshman year. I mean, we are talking about a guy that had a nice touch and used his body well to rebound but traveled constantly and didn't play great with his back to the basket. Amazing to watch him get better every year, huge congrats to him and both coaching staffs. "Impressed" doesn't even begin to describe it...bravo

No truer statement has been made on this blog.  So many WW players have made huge strides over the years. None bigger than Felix except for maybe Nate.  It will be interesting to see if Logie can keep developing big men the way Hayford did.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2012, 11:21:37 PM
Whitworth gets Trinity tomorrow night!

Looking at this game on paper it shouldn't be close but Trinity seems to be playing their best basketball of the season. Really rolled through a weak conference at the end of the year but continued the streak with some lights out shooting from outside. Looks a lot like Whitworth in terms of how they would prefer to play offensively. Took a lot of high % shots and then knocked down open 3's on the kickouts. UMHB was much more athletic, but like McMurry really struggled shooting the ball. However, UMHB was unable to force many turnovers. Trinity got pounded on the boards. Kitzinger looks like a tough matchup, a 6-7 forward that can shoot from anywhere and. Lambert (6-4 F) led the Tigers in scoring.

Common opponents are GF, Pacific, Willamette, and Southwestern. Whitworth beat all of them badly, while Trinity lost to GF, beat Willamette by 7, Pacific by 20, and Southwestern by 9 and 6. Paper doesn't mean much in the tourney though...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2012, 02:55:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2012, 08:19:38 PM
Final Withworth 90 McMurry 79. It was a Whitworth 2-possession game until the last 2 minutes.

Freidt is outstanding.
Congrats on a good team and good season Ralph.  +1  It was fun to see our schools get the matchup. 

Go Bucs!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2012, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2012, 02:55:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2012, 08:19:38 PM
Final Withworth 90 McMurry 79. It was a Whitworth 2-possession game until the last 2 minutes.

Friedt is outstanding.
Congrats on a good team and good season Ralph.  +1  It was fun to see our schools get the matchup. 

Go Bucs!!
Thanks for the kind words...

One last thought about Friedt...

If I comment about that tall German kid who is a "scoring machine" with a great outside shot and good free throw shooter to someone in Texas, the other guy will get a puzzled look on his face and remark, "I didn't think that Dirk Knowitzki had any eligibility left!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 03, 2012, 12:36:38 PM
As the token Trinity supporter on the board, I'll just say that I have no idea how our guys are going to deal with your experienced, talented, and BIG guys but will be there tonight to see how it plays out.    Our guys are very young (we started three sophs, a frosh, and one senior - who hit the big three at the end) but they have improved quite a bit since the non-conference losses mentioned above.

Whitworth will come in the decided favorite and it will probably take something like last night's 60% 3-point shooting in the first half for us to stay in it - which is nice if it happens but nothing you can depend on. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 03, 2012, 03:20:00 PM
Trinity has one of the nicest Sports facilities I have ever seen. Saw them play they are pretty good but WW has loads of weapons. I'm going with WW! I thought they were going to run the table last year but maybe this is the year!
First things first but I worry about the Wisconsin teams the ones I have seen are very good! Hope is also crazy good!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2012, 03:37:55 PM
Ron,

The one thing that scares me about Trinity is their ability to shoot their way out of a hole. In all honesty, I wasn't incredibly worried about McMurry knocking down big shots at the end of the game last night. A 7 point lead seemed like plenty. The only way they were going to get back into it at the end was going to be creating and finishing and1 opportunities. But when you have 4 guys that can come out and shoot the 3 like they did last night...the game will never be out of reach.

I would be surprised to see Trinity in a zone tonight. It would help in terms of defending Friedt but Whitworth shoots over 40% from 3 as a team. Teams who have had success have played man, doubled with a backside defender, and stayed out on the shooters in Friedt's line of sight. McMurry did everything they could on the perimeter to limit Whitworth from outside, and well, we saw what happened inside.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2012, 03:46:15 PM
Dont be surprised if Lasisi picks up a bit of the scoring load tonight. He poses some of the same matchup problems that a couple of the UMHB G/F's did last night for Trinity. Should have a little easier time getting to the hoop tonight and may get a few more open looks if the Tigers decide to give a lot of attention to Friedt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 03, 2012, 09:37:01 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 03, 2012, 03:46:15 PM
Dont be surprised if Lasisi picks up a bit of the scoring load tonight. He poses some of the same matchup problems that a couple of the UMHB G/F's did last night for Trinity. Should have a little easier time getting to the hoop tonight and may get a few more open looks if the Tigers decide to give a lot of attention to Friedt.
Good call Rat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2012, 09:40:41 PM
Whitworth wins. On to the Sweet 16! Again! Looks like the guys will be heading to MN or WI. Time to head over and chat with the Va Wesleyan guys. Hopefully they are as nice as Ralph, Ron, and the rest of the ASC/SCAC posters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: mcmfan on March 03, 2012, 11:08:43 PM
From a McMurry fan, it was great playing you guys even though we lost.  I talked to some of our players the next morning and they had nothing but compliments for your team and how well they played.  Good luck in the rest of the tournament — we want to be able to say that only the national champions were good enough to beat us!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 03, 2012, 11:27:10 PM
Congrats to the Pirates on the W tonight.  Your length kept our three point shooters from getting untracked most of the night, though I did have my hopes when we closed from 21 to 3 down late in the game.  Bang, two more quick threes and it was back to double digits and Trinity could never threaten again.   Good D all night on your part.

Best wishes for continued success ... this year.   ;)  We bring all but one player back next year so maybe we can meet again. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 04, 2012, 03:36:34 PM
Great win! got nervous when it took about 8 minutes to adjust to their 1-3-1 zone. Tough game coming up they could do it! Lot's of weapons!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 04, 2012, 03:48:54 PM
Looks like VW is very athletic and their guards are big! Only common opponent was Trinity early! Hard to judge!  Should be a great game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2012, 04:08:05 PM
Quote from: etule on March 04, 2012, 03:36:34 PMgot nervous when it took about 8 minutes to adjust to their 1-3-1 zone.

What game were you watching?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 04, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
The one where they didn't have a field goal for about 7 or 8 minutes and went from a almost 20 point lead down to 3 ! They had trouble atacking the zone!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2012, 05:55:15 PM
I've never seen a 1-3-1 that looks like what Trinity was running last night...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 04, 2012, 06:16:38 PM
Call it what you want ! My point is it took them a long time to adust and it almost cost them!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2012, 07:13:39 PM
Great job by the Pirates this weekend. They did fantastic job of playing very efficiently and taking care of business.  Now we are down to the part of the tournament where efficiency is great, but you have to play your best ball. In the latest poll the teams were ranked 6, 7, 8 and 24.  Rough bracket.   The Pirates are going to have to bring their A game to make it to the final 4.

I feel good about this team.  They might not have the overall talent of last year, but with Felix's improvement they are stronger in the middle and rest of the team is playing looser and more fluid than they did last year at tournament time.  I think we are peaking at the right time.  We'll see. 

I see Wooster is hosting. Great place to host for the crowd size, and fairly easy to get there. I see whey the NCAA sends teams there, but this is also why you see the same teams in the final four every year. It is such a huge advantage to play at home.  Used to shooting in the gym, friendly crowds, and no road weariness.  In addition, in the case of Wooster, serious home cooking by the refs.  WW's game there last year is one of the few games I've seen where refs consistently made bad calls or non-calls that had a huge influence on the flow of the game. I think Wooster is likely to be a final four team.  I honestly have been impressed by the refs in all the other tournament games I have watched and never heard any complaints from the players except for that one game.  My guess is that Wisconsin will have good refs.  Should be a fun weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2012, 08:10:57 PM
Refs are NOT from the conferences playing in the game (except, perhaps, for you d3 islands!).  If refs favor the home team it is 'rabbit ears', not home loyalty.

Wooster does probably have the advantage, but my Titans, having just taken down #1 Hope AT Hope are certainly not going to be intimidated about having to play Woo AT Woo.  (Since 1990, we have played tourney games AT #1 or #2 ranked teams 6 times; after last night we are now 6-0. ;D)

(And, yes, the refs at Hope were bad, but they were pretty much equal-opportunity bad. :P)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2012, 10:28:20 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2012, 07:13:39 PM
this is also why you see the same teams in the final four every year.

We do?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2012, 11:23:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2012, 10:28:20 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2012, 07:13:39 PM
this is also why you see the same teams in the final four every year.

We do?
The final over the last 10 years have had 12 teams out of a possible 20.  None from the NWC or the SCIAC.  As long as we get 1 team a year each, have to travel all over to play, and get draws with an over abundance of ranked teams in our brackets, it will be GREAT team that makes the final four from the west.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2012, 08:10:57 PM
Refs are NOT from the conferences playing in the game (except, perhaps, for you d3 islands!).  If refs favor the home team it is 'rabbit ears', not home loyalty.

Wooster does probably have the advantage, but my Titans, having just taken down #1 Hope AT Hope are certainly not going to be intimidated about having to play Woo AT Woo.  (Since 1990, we have played tourney games AT #1 or #2 ranked teams 6 times; after last night we are now 6-0. ;D)

(And, yes, the refs at Hope were bad, but they were pretty much equal-opportunity bad. :P)

Good luck taking down Wooster.  At least make them earn the trip to Salem. Maybe the refs weren't their usual refs, but it really was the only game I have seen where I thought the refs have unfairly affected the outcome throughout the game, not just a bad call at the wrong time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2012, 11:27:15 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2012, 11:23:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2012, 10:28:20 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2012, 07:13:39 PM
this is also why you see the same teams in the final four every year.

We do?
The final over the last 10 years have had 12 teams out of a possible 20.  None from the NWC or the SCIAC. 

There are over 40 conferences in D-III. A lot of them have not been represented.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 05, 2012, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: etule on March 04, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
The one where they didn't have a field goal for about 7 or 8 minutes and went from a almost 20 point lead down to 3 ! They had trouble atacking the zone!

It sure looked like a 2-3 zone to me, but you're right - the Bucs looked like they'd never seen it before, which surprised me.  That being said, clutch players make clutch plays, and Whitworth has a team of clutch players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 05, 2012, 04:52:36 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on March 05, 2012, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: etule on March 04, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
The one where they didn't have a field goal for about 7 or 8 minutes and went from a almost 20 point lead down to 3 ! They had trouble atacking the zone!

It sure looked like a 2-3 zone to me, but you're right - the Bucs looked like they'd never seen it before, which surprised me.  That being said, clutch players make clutch plays, and Whitworth has a team of clutch players.

All 1-3-1 zones pretty much drop back into a 2-3 with one pass to the wing.  Surprising they had trouble with any kind of zone since thats what they would run when Symes was there.  But then again, just showing my age! haha
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 05, 2012, 05:37:39 PM
Trinity did a good job of trapping the wing and the baseline! They mixed it up pretty well and it took a while for the coaching staff to adjust! They finally did and they hit a couple of 3's and the game was over. They have to make the adjustments quicker or they will not recover! Players have to adjust quicker also!
I'm rooting for WW!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 09, 2012, 01:32:09 PM
The link for the game:

http://uwwwarhawks.nmtvsports.com/

5:30 Central Time  3:30 Pacific Time
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 09, 2012, 07:19:18 PM
Va Wes shooting great from outside. Whitworth needs to defend the perimeter better and finish around the bucket. VWC up 35-30 at half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: etule on March 10, 2012, 03:31:19 PM
looked like two evenly matched teams! WW did everything but win! The only stat they were beat in was 3pt %. Great season!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 10, 2012, 03:37:10 PM
Great year for the Bucs and I thought the conference race was exciting.  Looking forward to next year already.  It would be great to see schools like Linfield and UPS play a more DIII oriented non-league schedule. Maybe that would help the NWC get a second team into the playoffs. 

See ya all next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 10, 2012, 05:40:47 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 10, 2012, 03:37:10 PM
Great year for the Bucs and I thought the conference race was exciting.  Looking forward to next year already.  It would be great to see schools like Linfield and UPS play a more DIII oriented non-league schedule. Maybe that would help the NWC get a second team into the playoffs. 

See ya all next year.

Me too Buc!  However, it won't happen.  The amount of funding for a D3 schedule is just not there for basketball at Linfield.

Anyways, great season to WW, and a great senior season for their seniors.  Great career to Felix!  What a great example of hard work and all of it showed.   
Title: Whitworth
Post by: theg on March 11, 2012, 02:55:07 PM
Once again they are bounced and I love it.
I have never seen such a group of classless fans.  In particular the guy with the messed up face and his band of idiots yelling insults at KIDS from other teams.  It takes a lot of guts to yell at 19 year old kids from the stands.
Once again, suck it.
Title: Re: Whitworth
Post by: playball on March 11, 2012, 06:25:53 PM
Quote from: theg on March 11, 2012, 02:55:07 PM
Once again they are bounced and I love it.
I have never seen such a group of classless fans.  In particular the guy with the messed up face and his band of idiots yelling insults at KIDS from other teams.  It takes a lot of guts to yell at 19 year old kids from the stands.
Once again, suck it.

The fans are out of the coaches control at most venues.  That usually falls upon the facility managers, which is more administration.  While I hated playing at Whitworth, you have to admire their fan support and clever insults!  They are a good organized bunch of hooligans that most other schools would love to have! 

Its obvious you do not feel the same way about them, however you can go about it in a more respectful and mature way.  "Messed up face" ?  Uncalled for.  Also, you highlight the word "kids".  These players play MENS basketball, BOYS basketball ended in highschool.  They can handle a good ribbing from the fans during a game since thats what they will face when it comes to tournament time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: theg on March 11, 2012, 08:51:26 PM
I disagree that adults yelling at 20 year old "adults", "kids", whatever is acceptable.  These jackasses were ADULTS and awful.  When we played them, we had other Whitworth people apologizing after the game, but it was tolerated during the game.  If our fans acted like that, I would personally intervene and let our "fans" know that it was unacceptable.  You said "good ribbing".  This wasn't "good ribbing".  It was classlesss and unacceptable.  The guy with the "messed up face"? The loudest jackass of them all.  In the words of the Oklahoma State coach, I'm a man.  If he tried to yell the stuff he yelled at 20 year old kids in a less controlled environment, he'd get smacked hard.  But he and his cohort of idiots are cowards, yelling at 20 year old division III kids in a gym.  Sad, cowardly, pathetic.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 11, 2012, 10:01:18 PM
When did you play Whitworth?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 12, 2012, 02:49:43 PM
Looks like theg is from a school in the MWC.

Personally, I'd love it if the other NWC schools had fans as enthusiastic as Whitworth's.  Willamette had a great crowd for our home finale against Fox, and those who were at Cone that night know that the crowd affected the outcome of the game.  Mike Taylor was clearly rattled after he unexpectedly became the Coneheads' public enemy #1.  And in the end, that helped set up this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9h1tUExz9o&context=C48fe8a8ADvjVQa1PpcFMbN2j-901i2-KSXjjBUKV78ieVVB9FbhY=

I wish students would create this environment at every NWC game.  Of course, winning helps draw crowds ... :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2012, 06:36:46 PM
That's easily the most fans I've seen at a Willamette basketball game...ever. Nice work! Although storming the court was a little unnecessary  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 12, 2012, 11:33:14 PM
Whitworth  assistant coach isn't thrilled with West Region Teams (via twitter)

https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179392645959917569 (https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179392645959917569)

Wow, All Region Teams are a joke. Sorry Idris for not getting mentioned even and the slap they gave Felix on 3rd team.


Followed by

https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179393016358903808 (https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179393016358903808)

I mean, didn't we win the NWC? And beat Whitman? And smash Linfield and Cal Lu? The fact that So. and Jr. make the list over E is stupid.

---------------------
As a football person I'll say that I love the way D3sports.com handles their all-regions/all-american teams.  They make tough decisions (that I don't agree with at times) but there is no doubt the weight their pre/post season teams carry is so much greater than organizations that name 35 1st team all-americans. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 13, 2012, 12:02:34 AM
I usually agree with PC and the d3hoops guys, but the assistant coach is right. Felix isn't a 3rd teamer in the west region. Idris probably ought to be 2nd/3rd team. I have no problem with Anderson from Linfield making the all-conference team, where you have room for a guy who scored the most points on a bad team. But when you get to all-region and have 5 times the number of players to choose from you need to be more selective and reward players who played well against top competition, you know, like in the tourney.

Rough week for those Whitworth guys...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 13, 2012, 12:07:00 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 12, 2012, 11:33:14 PM
Whitworth  assistant coach isn't thrilled with West Region Teams (via twitter)

https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179392645959917569 (https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179392645959917569)

Wow, All Region Teams are a joke. Sorry Idris for not getting mentioned even and the slap they gave Felix on 3rd team.


Followed by

https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179393016358903808 (https://twitter.com/#!/mmelka/statuses/179393016358903808)

I mean, didn't we win the NWC? And beat Whitman? And smash Linfield and Cal Lu? The fact that So. and Jr. make the list over E is stupid.

---------------------
As a football person I'll say that I love the way D3sports.com handles their all-regions/all-american teams.  They make tough decisions (that I don't agree with at times) but there is no doubt the weight their pre/post season teams carry is so much greater than organizations that name 35 1st team all-americans.

When you don't win POY for the NWC it really hurts your cause, regardless on how close the vote was/should've been. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 13, 2012, 12:20:19 AM
Also, I think it is kind of odd that Idris didn't get any all region recognition while Zach Anderson did.  Usually the all NWC team is published with the top vote getter at the top and the second right below, etc... Idris had finished over Zach in voting.  Don't get me wrong, Zach is a good player.  All Im saying is that is odd to me.  Also, congrats to Zach Anderson for being 2nd team!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 13, 2012, 01:24:52 AM
All-District teams are pretty hard to pick. The teams haven't even played each other in most cases.  Especially hard to select players from teams like Whitworth where different players step up each night rather than by one player leading the way each night.  Congrats to the ones that made it on the All-District team.  They deserve it--as do some of the guys left off the team.  Important to remember at this point in the year is the only objective prize is winning.

Can't wait until next year for NWC conference basketball!!!  My favorite basketball to watch.  In the mean time, my daughter's high school team is in the state quarterfinals for California. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 16, 2012, 09:29:07 PM
Since I just cannot help myself being a drive-by kinda guy and all...
Quote
The amount of funding for a D3 schedule is just not there for basketball at Linfield.

There IS a reason easily rectified by falling on a sword.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 16, 2012, 11:02:51 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 16, 2012, 09:29:07 PM
Since I just cannot help myself being a drive-by kinda guy and all...
Quote
The amount of funding for a D3 schedule is just not there for basketball at Linfield.

There IS a reason easily rectified by falling on a sword.

There will never be enough funding at Linfield for a D3 only schedule. Not with who is at the school now in the upper echelons of the athletic department or the old guy who retired but still holds a grudge.  D.O.C., you know who I am talking about
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 19, 2012, 02:02:44 PM
Playball,

I'm not sure what is happening at Linfield.  All I know is that back in the day they dominated in football, baseball, AND basketball. In addition, PLU was dominant in basketball and football. Clearly, both schools are capable of being great in both sports, they just have to put the pieces together.

Of course both PLU and Linfield were dominant in both sports when I played at Whitworth.  I must confess I have enjoyed this last decade of basketball success for Whitworth over the two schools. REALLY enjoyed it when Whitworth's football team won the league two years in a row.

One thing that has changed is that it is a different landscape playing Div III vs NAIA.  When you are not giving athletic scholarships any more, then you have to have a school that attracts the academically superior athlete.  This gives schools like UPS and Whitworth a huge advantage over schools like PLU and Linfield.

Playball, I know you hate my zingers on Linfield and I promise to do it for no longer than my brother did it to me after they kicked our butts all over the field in football when he was coaching at Linfield and I was playing at Whitworth (so I'll stop in 30 or 40 years).






Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 19, 2012, 10:50:37 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 12, 2012, 06:36:46 PM
That's easily the most fans I've seen at a Willamette basketball game...ever. Nice work! Although storming the court was a little unnecessary  ;)

:) Cut us some slack - there's been some bad blood between Willamette and Fox for a couple of years ... compounded by the fact that we hadn't beat them in a couple of years ... compounded further by the fact that we haven't really won many games at all the last couple of years ...

Honestly, I have no idea how/why/what caused so many students to show up for that game.  It was almost surreal - we got some pretty good crowds during Gordie's last years, but nothing quite like that.  Hopefully lots of those students will remember how cool it was and come back regularly next year.  It's a funny thing: Cone can get pretty darn loud when it's full.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on March 21, 2012, 04:43:24 PM
BC Press,
I had the chance to go to a couple Whitworth - Willamette games in the early 90's when the Bearcats were in their hoops glory years.  Cone was packed.  Lots of students and a ton of folks from the community coming out to watch those great teams play.  The place had a special environment when it was full.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 24, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Well, I'm completely convinced Logie can coach. But this is where we separate the men from the boys, on the recruiting trail...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on April 10, 2012, 06:52:00 PM
Quote from: playball on March 16, 2012, 11:02:51 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 16, 2012, 09:29:07 PM

Quote
There IS a reason easily rectified by falling on a sword.

Whats the reason? Doty should quit because he cannot get financial support from the athletics department that is controlled by an old man (Rutschman) with a 15 year old unjust grudge?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 15, 2012, 02:56:12 PM
Glad Whitworth's baseball team has been able to keep my attention while I wait for Whitworth to announce this year's recruiting class...  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on May 16, 2012, 02:08:02 PM
Speaking of recruits - bad news for PLU with one of their incoming recruits, Seth Anderson out for awhile.  Tore his meniscus this weekend. Get well soon Seth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2012, 12:12:00 PM
Hope you don't mind a break in the action, as it were, but I want to share a story the D3 community should know about. You actually may have seen the story on the front page of D3hoops.com, but just in case:

A Goucher basketball player has been paralyzed in a freak accident. He was wrestling around with a friend one morning in his dorm building when he landed on his neck. The entire story is here (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/05/goucher-player-paralyzed).

He was released from the hospital to the Kennedy Krieger Institute for rehab shortly after that article was posted last week. However, over the weekend he was sent back to the hospital when he apparently had trouble breathing. Now he awaits a return to the rehab facility, probably any day if he hasn't been released already.

Please keep Damone Brooks, his family, the Goucher basketball team(s), and Goucher community in your thoughts, hearts, and prayers. The family certainly needs help with medical bills as well, so if you feel inclined, please consider them as well.

To follow his progress online, click here (http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/damonebrooks).
And to consider a donation, click here (http://www.helphopelive.org/find-a-patient/profile/index.cfm/patient/FE0B84F4-C845-2122-B07EA3093EFAF336).

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Please feel free to contact me with any questions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on June 19, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
A few things going on with the Bearcats' offseason:

1. Recruiting class announced (http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/archive/2012/05/28_MBK_Recruiting_Class_2012-13.php).  At first glance, it looks like the coaches put a premium on getting bigger across the board - something this program desperately needed.  Should be fun to watch these guys develop.

2. Interesting hire (http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/archive/2012/06/19_ATHL_Passage_Hired.php) as former Kalamazoo head coach Rob Passage is the new Athletic Facilities and Operations Manager.  Wonder if he'll be joining Coach Ioane's staff.

3. The schedule (http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/schedule/index.php) has been released.  Nonconference highlights: co-hosting a tourney with L&C along with the usual Capital City Classic lineup, as well as a trip to Chapman for another tourney.  Lots of D-III games, which is good.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on June 20, 2012, 12:30:12 PM
Bearcat...  you got a good one with Luedtke from Mountain View HS, Idaho. Tough kid with a motor that doesn't quit.  Not the greatest athlete but makes up for it with determination.  Nephew played them in the Idaho state semis this spring and so I watched several of his games when we were scouting. Lefty that has a knack for getting his shot off around the basket, even against taller opponents.  We basically shut down their whole squad for a half except for Luedtke who just found ways to get it done. 

Here's the game video if anyone is interested.  Post Falls vs MW 2012 Idaho State Semifinals
http://www.idahosports.com/gamestreams/player/default.aspx?webcastid=3220

Some players of note on the video and where they are playing next year...

Luedtke (MW) - Williamette

Marcus Colbert (PF) - Montana State
Michael Hillman (PF) - Eastern Oregon U.
Seth Anderson (PF) - PLU (knee injury so likely out next year)
Luke Thoreson (PF) - Williams College
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on June 27, 2012, 02:48:42 PM
Utah doesn't list the Willamette game as an "exhibition"...they must be taking this more seriously than our friends down in Salem  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 01, 2012, 10:38:59 PM
It is possible for a game to be considered a game for a D-I or D-II school but an exhibition for a D-III school. Happens a few times a season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 12, 2012, 03:37:09 PM
If a game between a D1 and D3 is played after the D1 start date but before the D3... D1's can count the game, but D3's have to consider it an exhibition.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on August 12, 2012, 10:07:34 PM
On the Bearcat Hoop Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/BearcatHoop), two new transfers have been announced: Rich Vasquez, a 6'5'' forward from Mesa CC in Arizona, and Travis Mitchell, a 6'3'' guard from DePauw (though originally from California).  This brings the size of this year's recruiting class to eight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 03, 2012, 12:58:24 PM
Whitworth unceremoniously announces what is, in my opinion, a great schedule

Whitworth 2012-2013 Schedule (http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/schedule)

St. Thomas and UMHB at home
Simpson and Hamline at home (not great teams but they're DIII opponents which isn't always an easy get on the NWC island)
@Occidental and Chapman with Redlands at home (more in region DIII games)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on September 03, 2012, 01:23:56 PM
Good SOS and diversified schedule for the Pirates. No wonder that year after year they are in the tourney. Look forward to hosting them in pre-conference play. I really enjoy seeing the NWC teams down here and on the web when we go up north.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on September 03, 2012, 09:27:00 PM
Question for all you guys, is it legal under NCAA guidelines to coach during the summer?  This circumstances were it was a ProAm league in Portland and the coach was giving tips and pointers from the stands to the players in his program.  I'm not naming names, I am just curious if this is allowable, which I don't think it is.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 10, 2012, 10:48:30 PM
2012-2013 incoming class (http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/releases/20120910b6w01p)

Whitworth finally made the new kids on campus public. Very diverse group and the rumors around the bball community is that Logie didn't really miss a beat, landing some real talent. It'll be interesting to see how this coaching staff develops an enormous center who is raw on the offensive side of the ball. Hayford and co. did a pretty good job of that with some kid named Felix. 7'0" don't mean much if you can't score around the basket...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on September 18, 2012, 02:14:07 PM
Sorry Linfield...

Zach Anderson now at Eastern Oregon.

http://www.eousports.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 19, 2012, 12:41:12 PM
Playball: 

I think you are right, the coaches are not allowed to coach during the off season.  But making comments from the stands is probably a gray area.  If they are on the bench coaching, that would be big offense.

I have seen the Concordia and LC coaches in the stands at prior ProAm games a few years ago, but they stayed away from the players except to say hi after the games.  They didn't say anything to the players during the game.

Anderson is a big loss.  How do you see Linfield this year?  Any good recruits coming in?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 21, 2012, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on September 18, 2012, 02:14:07 PM
Sorry Linfield...

Zach Anderson now at Eastern Oregon.

http://www.eousports.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

ouch  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on September 24, 2012, 04:56:10 PM
Zach Anderson graduated from Linfield so he could not play his final semester of basketball here because we do not have any graduate programs. I believe he has to wait until the second semester to play for EOU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on September 29, 2012, 11:21:04 AM
Zach Anderson is a good basketball talent and good luck to him at EOU.  Will be interesting to see how he fits in with only one semester and all. 

As for Linfield this year I think they are going to be about normal.  Tough to gauge when Im not on campus anymore and further removed from the program.  However, knowing some of the now older guys (I feel old!) I think this team will have a lot of scrap in them.    If Battuik can repeat and increase his numbers from last year I think they are in most games towards the end.  Hopefully Hendrix and Pine play like they have shown in some open gyms during the summer.  I would love to see this crew of scrappers make a little noise!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 14, 2012, 02:44:39 PM
Doesn't 2012-13 start tomorrow?  Very little on the teams for this year on this board and almost nothing from my OR schools.  Where is everyone?

Only Playball has given us anything to go on.  Sounds like same old, same old at Linfield; "crew of scrappers".  But they are young with only 3 seniors returning.  They lost big time last year; their 2 bigs, Lee and Anderson are gone, but Batiuk is back (he was very good early last year!) and only a sophomore.  They always seem to have a good big man, right Playball?

Fox lost Taylor to graduation, but has 3 of their top scorers back including AJ Grant who is going to be an impact player in this league.  No word on their website about anything other than their schedule.  A huge collapse out of the playoffs last year might leave a bad taste to motivate them.

Pacific is also without a word on their page.  They don't lose much (Beatty) and I heard a rumor they did well recruiting this year.  They will be good in a year or two, if not this year.  Give their coach 4 years to have all his own players, and watch out. 

LC only brought in 3 point/shooting guards.  The returners need to step up.  Replacing Taylor, Wells and Perconti with 3 freshman guards is a huge step down.  But they do return 3 starters, and Hollins and Pisapia are back as 5th year seniors.  And their bigs are no longer freshmen.  They appear down a notch to me.  Taylor was the leader for them, now who?

Willamette gets bigger, bringing in 6 between 6'3" and 6'6".  Not bad.  Now can they play and how soon?  They lose Mounts and Meehan (1st and 3rd on last year's scoring), so they have some holes to fill.  I like Coach  Ioane and look for good things, but not great.

Looks like parity to me in OR.

Someone do the WA schools.  Still looks like the league powers are to the northeast and north.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 17, 2012, 04:36:15 PM
The Preseason Top 25 is out: http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/preseason (http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/preseason)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on October 19, 2012, 01:35:13 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on October 14, 2012, 02:44:39 PM
Doesn't 2012-13 start tomorrow?  Very little on the teams for this year on this board and almost nothing from my OR schools.  Where is everyone?

Only Playball has given us anything to go on.  Sounds like same old, same old at Linfield; "crew of scrappers".  But they are young with only 3 seniors returning.  They lost big time last year; their 2 bigs, Lee and Anderson are gone, but Batiuk is back (he was very good early last year!) and only a sophomore.  They always seem to have a good big man, right Playball?


I've said this before, Batuik is good.  Will be better than I was when its all said and done.  As for losing a lot, yeah, ZA's scoring will be missed and David Lee's leadership and BIG inside presence also missed.  However, with some teams, there is addition through subtraction and I think this might hold true with this years Linfield team.  David Lee was a good leader and an awesome teammate, not selfish at all, and knew what needed to be done off and on the court to put the team in a spot to compete. (Which to be honest, wasn't a whole lot last year due to skill issues)  LEE will be missed for his contributions in this way.  While ZA's 20ppg will also need to be made up for, his contributions to the program as a whole will not be.  Attitude and other issues hopefully didnt filter down to the younger guys.

Also, sounds like a 6'9 kid is at Linfield this year.  Fairly raw but you can't teach height.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 19, 2012, 01:11:27 PM
Good post Playball.  But don't sell yourself short.  Batuik may have more talent, but is seems like he checked out after a hot start last year.  You never did that, at least as far as my memory goes.  You were tough everynight!

Whitworth at 14?  Probably deserved at this point.  But they lost a lot last year.  Did they replace that talent?  Is this the year the rest of the league has a chance of catching them? 

Whitman in the "also receiving votes" category.  Are they 1 and 2 in everybody's/anybody's preseason rankings?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on October 19, 2012, 10:39:24 PM
Knowing Whitworth, they most likely did replace all the talent lost last year.  AND they probably didn't have to recruit to fill the voids.  Nate Montgomery went from nearly a nobody in our conference to All American in 2 years.  Talking with Riley and some other guys from up there, their gym is always open.  Those guys are always working on something to get better and they schedule their classes accordingly.  Im not saying other schools don't partake in this but the way Whitworth goes about their business is impressive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on October 20, 2012, 12:03:37 AM
Nephew lives about 45 mins away from Whitworth so he spent a lot of time in that gym going all the way back to 7th grade.  They host a lot of summer league games, have the local hs talent around for open gym etc. which is the opposite of Gonzaga where Stockton doesn't let anybody that isn't on the squad or an alum on the floor.  Had he not chosen Williams I think he may have ended up there. Nice program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 21, 2012, 12:54:25 PM
Playball:  I am not sure about that.  They lost a lot off last years' team including 4 of their 8 in the regular rotation, and 3 of their top 4 scorers.  Their returning 3 bigs averaged just over 12 minutes a game and 1.8 points, combined.  The replacements are 5 freshman and a 7'0" project JC transfer center whose stats they quote on their website are from high school.  Hardly seasoned players that have come in in the past, and freshmen rarely make a big impact in the NWC.  The other NWC coaches must be at least encouraged about this.

Will they be good, probably.  But I don't think they will be as scary as they have been the last several years. 

Madz:  Certainly the trait of top programs, but that was Hayford not Logie.  Hayford was a master recruiter, filling in position holes every year, like Playball said.  I just don't see that with this year's incoming class.  Huge holes, freshman plugs.  It seems like Hayford would have brought in at least a couple of JC transfers (not a project).

And by now the Whitworth faithful have usually been all over this forum with massive predictions!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 22, 2012, 12:12:45 AM
I'd be surprised if Farnsworth doesn't turn out to be one of the top big men in the conference. He's a local kid who went DI out of high school and didn't get a lot of time last year with Felix, Loofburrow, and tall Michael Taylor in the rotation ahead of him. Whiworth's strength will definitely be their guard play. Gebbers and McConnell will start (at least at the beginning of the season). McCargar will get more time, which I'm ok with. He plays great defense and started taking much better care of the ball about half way through last season. Supposedly there are a couple freshman who are very very talented, that may wind up working their way into the rotation. Aldous is very versatile from what I hear, which will help his cause. And even though Logie had to go to Turkey, I think he found another spot up 3 point shooter. I've always liked Payne, and he'll get a shot this season to contribute more at the 4. I'm excited to see him play. Real tough kid that does a good job of getting position and pulling down rebounds on both ends of the court.

I guess if I'm an NWC coach I look at Whitworth's team and feel a little better about myself, because they did lose a lot of production. But isn't that what you guys say every year???  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 06, 2012, 11:11:06 PM
Whitworth alumni beat the young'ins...proving yet again that you should respect your elders...especially when a few of them are former all americans
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 07, 2012, 09:40:47 AM
Whitworth lost to DI Idaho St by 3 last night. Had a chance to tie on their last possession. Didn't watch the game obviously, but this was a good outcome for this year's team. I think most Whitworth fans were/are prepared for a slow start given the personnel losses. So I'm happy with this result.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 07, 2012, 06:20:55 PM
I was about to give props to the LC team for hanging with OSU (lost the 1st half by 11 and the second by 14), but Rat chewed me up with that last post.  Idaho St is certainly down a few steps from OSU, but any time a DIII beats or has a chance to beat a DI is impressive.

Pacific is at Portland State Friday (I wish I could make that game, but work comes first) and Fox is there in December, so that will be indicators of how they are doing. 

LC loses by only 25 (respectable) without their arguably best player Hollins (haven't heard why he didn't play, but that should stir Playball up a bit :)), so maybe they will be better than I thought. 

A week and a half to go until the real games begin!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 07, 2012, 06:48:54 PM
Yeah, I think that's a good result for LC. It's always tough to tell when you are playing a DI program who considers it an exhibition game. How seriously are they taking it from the get go? How many minutes are the starters actually playing? Are there starters with minor injuries that just flat out sitting on the bench? Is the other coach messing with rotations for the sake of messing with rotations or is he coaching to embarrass the other team? How close was it in the first half vs the second half? etc.

Whitoworth hung around with Utah in an exhibition game back in the day...then Bogut decided to start playing basketball and the Utes ran away at the end...can't remember the final score but I'm pretty sure they broke it open to a 20+ point game in the last 10 minutes or so.

The first competition against other DIII teams will be telling, especially the "in-region" games, since those are a big part of your resume when it comes to playoff selection.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 07, 2012, 08:50:08 PM
HAHA!  TMT!  I decided on a whim to look at this tonight and look what I find! 

I've heard through the grapevine Hollins has re-injured his knee.  He didn't play on the LC ProAm team either, but was on the bench coaching (with help from the stands :-X)  From the sounds of it possibly another ACL tear.  Feel bad for the guy. Anytime a career is cut short due to injury is tough to swallow.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 07, 2012, 11:15:53 PM
He is in the team photo and listed on their roster, so maybe he is coming back this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 14, 2012, 02:21:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 07, 2012, 09:40:47 AM
Whitworth lost to DI Idaho St by 3 last night. Had a chance to tie on their last possession. Didn't watch the game obviously, but this was a good outcome for this year's team. I think most Whitworth fans were/are prepared for a slow start given the personnel losses. So I'm happy with this result.

The good news is that Whitworth didn't really play out of their heads by any means. They shot 48% and Wade was 0-7 from the field.  Even though they didn't add any big time transfers, Playball is correct that they seem to have developed what they had sitting on the bench to take the next step up. Whitworth has an old gym the guys can play in any time and the weight room is right downstairs. Great pickup games are going on all the time there. Probably contributes to Whitworth's success. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 14, 2012, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 07, 2012, 06:48:54 PM
Yeah, I think that's a good result for LC. It's always tough to tell when you are playing a DI program who considers it an exhibition game. How seriously are they taking it from the get go? How many minutes are the starters actually playing? Are there starters with minor injuries that just flat out sitting on the bench? Is the other coach messing with rotations for the sake of messing with rotations or is he coaching to embarrass the other team? How close was it in the first half vs the second half? etc.

Whitoworth hung around with Utah in an exhibition game back in the day...then Bogut decided to start playing basketball and the Utes ran away at the end...can't remember the final score but I'm pretty sure they broke it open to a 20+ point game in the last 10 minutes or so.

The first competition against other DIII teams will be telling, especially the "in-region" games, since those are a big part of your resume when it comes to playoff selection.

Actually 509, from what I heard about the Utah game was that Bogut did not play, and in fact we only lost by 5.  Gunner Olsen scored 22 in that one.

Correction - found it in the NWC archives.  January 2, 2002.  Utah 63 Whitworth 57, so lost by 6...my bad.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on November 15, 2012, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on November 14, 2012, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 07, 2012, 06:48:54 PM
Whitoworth hung around with Utah in an exhibition game back in the day...then Bogut decided to start playing basketball and the Utes ran away at the end...can't remember the final score but I'm pretty sure they broke it open to a 20+ point game in the last 10 minutes or so.

Actually 509, from what I heard about the Utah game was that Bogut did not play, and in fact we only lost by 5.  Gunner Olsen scored 22 in that one.

Correction - found it in the NWC archives.  January 2, 2002.  Utah 63 Whitworth 57, so lost by 6...my bad.

You are both right (or slightly wrong).  89, Bogut was not yet at Utah in the game you refer to.  The game that 509 refers to happened in January of 2005.  Bogut had 23 points in only 18 minutes.  Utes pulled away to win by 21.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 16, 2012, 07:19:23 AM
A Buc Forever, I've been in that gym and its.....something else.  But, at least they have a place they can go whenever they like!  The same can not be said for Linfield.  One night we got in to our upstairs (small) gym and were promptly escorted out by Campo.  Difference in philosophies about some sports show vividly in the win categories
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 17, 2012, 10:02:51 PM
I had keys to that old gym when I played at Whitworth and David could call security any time and they'd open the gym for him.  Really helps make a great culture.  When I visited McMinnville when I was in college there were a lot of players that stayed around and played a lot.  Didn't seem to be an issue getting gym time then.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 18, 2012, 11:31:56 AM
Sounds like Bob Castle was very impressed with the St Thomas team that beat Whitworth last night. Apparently their athleticism on the defensive end of the court is what got his attention. I didn't catch the whole game but from what I saw, that was the Whitworth team I was expecting to see this early in the season. They played with a top 10-15 type team, but made 2-3 too many mistakes to win and lose by 5. They only shot 27-ish% from 3 which is not what you're used to seeing up in Spokane. I'm sure UST had something to do with it but there were some really bad looking shots. Whether that's a mental thing or a talent thing (I couldn't tell who was shooting half the time), I have no idea. Overall, I'm glad they were able to schedule the UST and UMHB games so that these young/new guys get to see the level they have to play at to make a post season run.

And to anyone who was at the game last night, great job of showing up and supporting the team. St. Thomas coach and players  (from what i was told) were very impressed with the atmosphere. Well done.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 18, 2012, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 17, 2012, 10:02:51 PM
I had keys to that old gym when I played at Whitworth and David could call security any time and they'd open the gym for him.

And it wasn't any different in the time between...if you didn't have a key you knew a guy on the team (really any team) who did. And security never asked questions. Occasionally they would give you a hard time about lifting if you were by yourself, but it was never anything more than a 2 minute lecture on liability and safety. I wouldn't expect anything to change either with the new President. He seems to be just as active on campus and as supportive of the athletic department as Bill was.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 18, 2012, 12:58:17 PM
Saw Linfield against my alma mater Cal Maritime last night. Maritime won 57 - 56. Cats played mostly a zone defense and a trapping press most of the night. They got a few 10 second violations but gave up more baskets behind the press than they got turnovers. I was was not overly impressed.
Here are photos from the game: http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=4018
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 18, 2012, 01:46:54 PM
A first game from a team that lost 2 all NWC guys they lost 57-56 was disappointing?  Im obviously a supporter of Linfield Basketball and am disappointed with any loss, but a 1 point loss is a step in the right direction.  After seeing how they finished last year and the way their defense was, I see a couple 10 second calls as a plus!!  Hopefully they will be able to get over the hump and start putting wins on the board but with the perpetually young team they have, a plus is great!  Go cats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 18, 2012, 01:48:43 PM
Also, where can I find a box score from the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 18, 2012, 02:18:36 PM
Actually second game playball. The Cats lost to Menlo 87-85 on Friday.
Menlo box score: http://www.menloathletics.com/stats/2012-13/Mens%20Basketball%20linfield.htm

The box score from the Maritime game isn't up yet. They tend to be a bit slow.

I too support Linfield sports, but Cal Maritime being my alma mater got my support last night. I have nothing to compare the Cats play to since I have not seen them in awhile. But Cal Maritime is the defending Cal Pac Conference champions and lost quite a few players from last year's team. My comment was based on how well the Keelhaulers played, which was not nearly as well as last year. It is early so we shall see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 18, 2012, 02:32:01 PM
My bad!  So two L's by a combined 3 points...   Also, wasn't saying you didn't support the program like I have in the past with posters like DOC.  I was trying to say that my point of views will obviously be a little biased!  No slam on you by any means!  Also, thank you for the link, +k to you if I could
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2012, 03:23:10 PM
Quote from: cawcdad on November 18, 2012, 02:18:36 PMI too support Linfield sports, but Cal Maritime being my alma mater got my support last night. I have nothing to compare the Cats play to since I have not seen them in awhile. But Cal Maritime is the defending Cal Pac Conference champions and lost quite a few players from last year's team. My comment was based on how well the Keelhaulers played, which was not nearly as well as last year.

That is a fantastic nickname!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 21, 2012, 07:49:11 PM
Friday will be a good test for Whitworth. A home game against a team they "should" beat. Don't know what UMHB is returning from last season, but they were athletic.. UMHB Just made had too many mental lapses to beat a solid Trinity team in the playoffs last year. I'd imagine traveling a couple thousand miles and playing in the fieldhouse won't help, but this Whitworth team will give a lot of young guys playing time which may help the cru reverse their fortunes from the end of last season.

If Kitrick Bell is back I expect Larkin to get the assignment to start the game. The key for Whitworth will be getting points from someone other than Gebbers. This is a team that's gonna need 3 guys in double figures most games. The defense will keep them in most games, but they aren't going to beat teams like St. Thomas with 65 pts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 22, 2012, 08:59:14 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone that reads this.  I am truly thankful that others take such an interest in the NWC as I do.  Plus, I am thankful for RAT making the comment "Wiser is like sasquatch" and making me laugh.  It takes quite a bit, but he did it!  Happy thanksgiving all
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 23, 2012, 07:49:02 PM
Gebbers scores 3 points and Whitworth beats UMHB 70-61. McConnell had a great game with 18 points. Whitworth got 13 from McCargar and 12 from Valle and Larkin. Good defensive effort and a nice job of getting 4 guys in double figures. Just need Farnsworth to develop more of a low post game and this team will be just fine
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 27, 2012, 09:17:06 PM
Looks like some teams are starting strong.  LC, Pacific, Whitman have some good wins.  How is that freshman for Pacific?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 28, 2012, 10:25:10 AM
Any words on Hollins?  I haven't seen him in box scores
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 28, 2012, 12:13:03 PM
I have seen Pacific play once, and they are much improved.  The freshman (Danny Brakebush) out of Portland's Central Catholic was an all-state player (first team I think), and has done well for PacU, including leading the team in scoring in their game against PSU.  He seems to be up and down in the box scores, and has some learning to do, but he will be good.  No way Pacific finishes 8th this year (coaches poll), but more in the middle of the pack, possibly in a playoff position. 

I also went to the 1st LC game, and a fan told me Hollins is practicing and only "a few days from playing", but that obviously is not the case, 4 games later.  It was a torn ACL, so mentally it might be tough to come back from 2 torn in 2 years, but as Playball likes to point out, he is rather "passionate" and could come back full speed.  I have been told full strength doesn't happen for a couple of years with this injury, and who knows with the second one.

Who would have guessed LC and PacU are on top of the standings at this point?  Okay, I get the strength of schedule, but I am riding the OR high as long as it lasts!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 29, 2012, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 28, 2012, 12:13:03 PM
I also went to the 1st LC game, and a fan told me Hollins is practicing and only "a few days from playing", but that obviously is not the case, 4 games later.  It was a torn ACL, so mentally it might be tough to come back from 2 torn in 2 years, but as Playball likes to point out, he is rather "passionate" and could come back full speed.  I have been told full strength doesn't happen for a couple of years with this injury, and who knows with the second one.


Just went back through all my posts and not once did I call Hollins "passionate".  I may have called him a detriment to his team and not a great team guy ("Josh Kollasch saying "what is he doing?!" DURING THE GAME to one of our guys rings a bell)  I don't think he will play this year.  And, I STILL don't think its horrible for their team in the long run.  Their post guys, when/if the ever play, may stand a chance to get touches.

Lets see if LCPio26 jumps on this one.

One last thing, I just reread my comment and it kind of looks like RAT could have been the author.  I must be doing something right in life...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 30, 2012, 02:33:18 AM
Looks like Pac, LC, WW, WM, and W are starting strong.  LC hung well with Portland.  WW had a strong win against Montana Tech. Should be a great conference race this year.  Looks like UPS, PLU, and Linfield will struggle. Strange to see those teams at the bottom.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 30, 2012, 04:35:27 PM
Gotta Love It!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th95NrSJt9Y&feature=share
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on December 01, 2012, 01:27:10 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 30, 2012, 02:33:18 AM
Looks like Pac, LC, WW, WM, and W are starting strong.  LC hung well with Portland.  WW had a strong win against Montana Tech. Should be a great conference race this year.  Looks like UPS, PLU, and Linfield will struggle. Strange to see those teams at the bottom.

Seems that Linfield has the first NWC win over Lewis & Clark.    Linfield better than you thought, or L&C worse?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 01, 2012, 02:54:09 AM
Linfield came back against LC after being down by double figures early in the second half. They matched up well against LC because the Pios do not pound the ball inside.  Linfield played good defense and LCs jump shots stopped falling. Harris and Batiuk got it going in the second half to open conference play with a win against one of the better teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 01, 2012, 07:01:44 AM
Big win for the cats!!  Take a look at this everyone.   ;D

http://nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/standings
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 01, 2012, 01:48:44 PM
Buc Forever:

Not a big Pirate fan, but you are right:  I did love it!

Big day for Playball!  Wow, I didn't see that coming. 

Couple of things:  Preseason, er, Preleague games quite often do not prepare teams for the NWC.  Or at least provide assurance of success or not in league.  Teams know each other too well in conference and teams from other conferences play different styles.

And I don't like the schedule this year!  A league game in November 2 weeks after the non-league games start (not counting exhibition games)?  Fox and Will only playing once before Christmas while everyone else plays twice?  Who did this and why?
   
And Playball, that is why passionate was in quotes.  Trying to be nice.  Your dislike for Hollins AS A PLAYER has been noted, and I can see where you come from.  He takes some real bad shots and drives at times, but not being a team player I believe is inaccurate.  He is always cheering his team on when he is out of the game, and when my Biddy was around, he said he was a favorite of his teammates.  One player questioning his actions, even during a game, does not make him a bad teammate.

An apparent upset (too early to tell) in the season opener...it might be an interesting year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2012, 07:06:58 PM
Did not see Linfield beating LC like that.  TMT is correct.  It is different playing in your conference than non-league.  Looks like it will be a wild season.

The other issue this highlights though is that the NWC needs to have teams play a non-league schedule that gives the conference more credibility on a national scale. We need to stop playing all these NAIA teams, etc and everyone needs to schedule national level D-III teams and then go beat them.  I realize it's expensive, but football does it and look at the results. The NWC had 2 teams in the football playoffs this year and only 32 teams make it in.  Basketball has almost double that and we almost always just get one in.  Off the top of my head I think we have had teams get at least to the Sweet 16 the last 5 years and we got 2 teams in 1 time.  We need to work on the national rep a bit.

Playball--Congrats to Linfield on a great football season.  Sad to see them blow a 15 point lead in the 4rth quarter, but still a great season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 02, 2012, 01:24:33 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2012, 07:06:58 PM
We need to stop playing all these NAIA teams, etc and everyone needs to schedule national level D-III teams and then go beat them.  I realize it's expensive, but football does it and look at the results.

The closest D-III conference to the NWC is the SCIAC and from what I have been told by a source who would know is that in the past NWC coaches wanted to do like an NWC/SCIAC challenge like the ACC and Big 10 challenge, but the SCIAC as a conference wanted none of it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 02, 2012, 04:21:09 AM
Buc,
Its not like the Linfield Basketball Staff and Players enjoy playing all these NAIA schools.  If we had adequate funding we/they would be happy to travel around playing some other conferences.  However, this goes back to me beating a dead horse in saying the things that get funded at Linfield are baseball and football.  However, I do believe Linfield is in a Christmas tourny that has some quality D3 competition this year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2012, 02:00:43 AM
LC dropping games to GF and Linfield really shocks me. LC had some good non-league wins and Linfield had no wins and GF lost to the Banana Slugs. That's why they play the games.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 05, 2012, 04:52:54 AM
Tough loss to Willamette for the Wildcats tonight.  Good to see Brandon Harris showing a little hot stretch, hopefully he can sustain it for as long as possible.  Batuik throws in his regular 19 and 7. 

Looks like Dart for Willamette was doing his thing and shooting at a stupid high percentage and grabbing a ton of rebounds.  18 and 17? Unbelievable.

Playing Willamette has always been a mixed result.  They are a well coached team that is scrappy.  Tough loss :/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2012, 01:51:57 PM
Whitworth gets PLU and UPS this weekend. Looks like PLU finally has a reliable big man. It will help but I don't know if the Lutes have enough talent, expecially with as shaky as they've been early on this season, to beat Whitworth tonight. I think PLU can finish 3rd this year, but if you look at results for the NWC this year (so far) there is no way of telling who is actually improved/gotten worse and who just had an off night against a common opponent...saying PLU could be 3rd really isn't bold at all. Anyone could finish 3rd this year.

UPS is down. Very down by the looks of some of their early season contests. What I don't get is why their leading scorer is coming off the bench almost every game this season...Where are all the Lunt apologists from UPS at?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 08, 2012, 10:23:29 PM
Okay Rat, you started it!  Let's see if this sparks some UPS apologists (love that term)!

It seems that promoting the assistant coach to head coach is not a very successful procedure.  Over the last 10 years there have been 4 such promotions with limited to no success at all.  PLU promoted Dickerson in 2006, UPS also promoted Lunt in 2006, Willamette selected Ione in 2008, and LC tabbed Foreman in 2011. 

Those teams that hired from outside have done much better.  Bridgeland at Whitman in 2008, Cleary at PacU in 2010, and Logie at Whitworth in 2011.  I would say this group has done a much better job of maintaining or elevating their programs than the former group.

Dickerson has had mediocre success at best finishing consistently in the middle of the pack.  1 or 2 top 4 appearances in 6 years, just barely OK in my book.  I don't see PLU being a top team with Dickerson as the coach.

Lunt was dealt a winning hand when Bridgeland left with only his 3rd year finish being as successful as expected.  Most people would say he underachieved during the first 2 years of that 3 year period.  He had a decent record a couple of years ago, but I think the graph of his success shows a gradual but steady decline.   The UPS program was operating on a high level with Bridgeland there, but I don't see them back at the top with Lunt with the exception of a spike in the record on an occasional basis.

Ione has had a similar road to Dickerson, but started at a lower level and rose to the middle.  For Ione to be labeled as a good coach I need to see some top 4 finishes, and that doesn't look likely in the foreseeable future.  I think he has done a decent job.  Now it is time to take a step up.

Foreman was also dealt a good hand, and underachieved his first year.  LC backed into the playoffs when PLU lost their last 2 games and Fox lost their last 4 games to hand the 4th seed to the Pios.  But they did make it.  They came out strong this year, but lost their first 2 league games.  Heading into the assistant coach spiral down from a top program, or just a short step backward, too early to tell.

Whereas Bridgeland has brought talk of a league championship title to Walla Walla, Cleary, dealt a horrible hand to start his tenure as a head coach, has the Boxer backers talking of a playoff position in only his 3rd year, and Logie has maintained the high level of play at Whitworth, all success stories to me.

I think it is real hard to take over as a head coach from being an assistant coach.  The returning kids need to respect the new coach, and that doesn't happen most of the time.  It is an easy choice for the schools since a promotion probably comes much cheaper than hiring a more established head coach.  But the programs suffer from this. 

To make a short answer real long, I don't think Lunt was experienced enough to be the head coach, and now he can't get experience from other good head coach's since they are all at the wrong side of the scorer's table.  The school of "experience on the job" provides some answers, but not enough.  And now that he has all of his own recruits, UPS will probably fall to the middle of the pack like the rest of the promoted coaches.     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 09, 2012, 12:06:21 AM
After Whitworth gets done beating the crap out of UPS tonight, hopefully Keandre will grace us with his presence...to remind us all why Lunt is such a great coach.

Of course, after a 30 point beat down at the hands of Bridgeland's new team, I have a feeling we won't hear from him for awhile  :-X
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 09, 2012, 01:24:46 AM
Whitworth beats UPS 78-45

Gone are the days of Kraul and Foster and Williams. No more Boyce or Marsh or Shelton. Maybe McVey or Curtiss could find eligibility...

This Whitworth team really doesn't "wow" you while they're playing. I don't know how to describe it, but they aren't an exciting team. They play great defense. They've held St. Thomas and UPS to season low point totals and several others (UMHB included) to their 2nd lowest totals. They execute on offense and don't kill themselves with turnovers.

So early on in the season, looks like it'll be Whitworth and Whitman battling it out for 1st. But who gets the last 2 conference tourney spots is beyond me...right now, I'd say Pacific and PLU. Don't ask me why I picked those two teams. Figuring out the 3rd and 4th best teams this year is gonna be like trying to find the tallest man in Mexico...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 09, 2012, 10:39:07 AM
TMT, look at the schools who have been successful with their new coaches and what do they have in common?  The dump a lot of money on sports.  Whitman with the $3 million spent on their new gym along with more spent on other facilities.  Pacific also has spent lots on updating facilities and adding football again!  And along with these two we have Whitworth that is on a level all its own.

UPS is down this year.  I don't think they have the athletes to run the run n' gun efficiently.  They are going to continue to struggle. 

Im impressed with Whitworth's freshmen George Valle.  Not an easy environment to succeed in, let alone to be a freshmen with a bunch of pressure. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 09, 2012, 03:59:52 PM
Heard good things about Valle coming in but he's probably been the most consistent player, offensively, for Whitworth. Really impressed by the freshman. Really liked watching him work in the post against UPS guards last night. You just don't see guys his size that can play a little with their back to the basket.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 09, 2012, 06:24:58 PM
Great weekend for Whitworth.  Two solid wins.  Hope they don't drop further in the rankings.  Whitworth may not have a dominant scorer right now, but Valle seems to be developing into one. The key to their success is (and has always been) great defense and execution. That has not changed in the transition from Hayford to Logie.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 14, 2012, 02:06:13 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 08, 2012, 10:23:29 PM
It seems that promoting the assistant coach to head coach is not a very successful procedure. 

Your argument may come to fruition after a few years, but right now its flawed.  You mentioned Lunt had some success at first, but that was because they were Bridgelands recruits. Well Logie and Cleary both have or had players who were major factors in their success that were recruited by the previous coach. If in a couple of years those two coaches are still winning with their own recruits then your argument may be correct, but as of now it does not.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PiratePower on December 16, 2012, 03:37:30 AM
Certainly there was talent left over at Pacific and obviously Whitworth when Cleary and Logie took over but don't underestimate the work it takes to handle the change either, plus you still have to prove you can coach in a new league, win over the locker room, and in Logie's case, coach in pressure situations (ie, championship games, NCAA tourney). Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the leading scorer at Whitworth last year (Lasisi) and this year (Valle) were both brought in by Logie...so credit for much of their success goes to him and the new staff not Hayford there.

I definitely think getting a D1 experienced coach (Logie, Cleary, Bridgeland) or experienced head coach (Hayford/Bridgeland) has been proven to be a more successful model then promoting a D3 assistant (Lunt/Ione), but is that really a surprise?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 16, 2012, 06:51:17 PM
PPower:

No not a surprise.  The surprise is that schools, as Playball has said, are too cheap to get a quality coach, and would rather cross their fingers and hope a promoted will somehow develop into a quality coach.  After the success these schools have had in the past, it is a wonder UPS, Wil, and LC would just settle for less.  But they are saving money!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 16, 2012, 08:44:48 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 16, 2012, 06:51:17 PM
PPower:

No not a surprise.  The surprise is that schools, as Playball has said, are too cheap to get a quality coach, and would rather cross their fingers and hope a promoted will somehow develop into a quality coach.  After the success these schools have had in the past, it is a wonder UPS, Wil, and LC would just settle for less.  But they are saving money!

You kind of twisted what I said a little.  I said the schools that are successful have spent A LOT on their sports programs in the past few years.  I never said anything about settling for less.  Also, while Lasisi and Valle were brought in by Logie, I still think it had more to do with the success Whitworth had with Hayford than it did with Logie at all. 

Ione and Dinari were the heir apparents for those schools also.  It wasn't a surprise that LC and Willamette went that direction.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 17, 2012, 03:50:22 AM
Quote from: PiratePower on December 16, 2012, 03:37:30 AM
you still have to prove you can coach in a new league, win over the locker room, and in Logie's case, coach in pressure situations (ie, championship games, NCAA tourney). Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the leading scorer at Whitworth last year (Lasisi) and this year (Valle) were both brought in by Logie...so credit for much of their success goes to him and the new staff not Hayford there.
I want to preface my comments by saying I am not saying that Clearly and Logie will not continue to have success in the NWC, but once again people's arguments are not consistent. Am I wrong in thinking that Lunt pulled off the same thing in 2009, that Logie did last year? Now Lunt was not new to UPS as Logie and Cleary are to their schools, but did he still not have to "prove he could coach in a new league, win over the locker room, and coach in pressure situations"?  You could even say that he developed the talent that Bridgeland helped recruit and in 2009 he went 16-0 in conference! I'll take your word for it that Lasisi was Logie's recruit, but who recruited Gebbers, Friedt, Lufburrow, etc? Logie could vary well have sustained success and be a great coach in the NWC its in his blood, see grandfather, but to judge him as more successful than Lunt is quiet unfair. 

And to echo off of what Playball was saying the two schools people consider the top now, Whitworth and Whitman, probably do spend more money than the others. Hayford did a great job of securing sponsors from the Spokane community and if Bridgeland is still doing it, Whitman had been letting him spend money well over his budget.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 17, 2012, 09:28:32 AM
Playball:

I don't see how I twisted it.  If you take an heir apparent coach instead of doing a search for the best candidate, most probably because of allegiance and cost, aren't you settling for less?  "Too cheap" vs "Spending lots of money" are the opposite sides of the coin and reflect the directions those schools are going/maintaining.

FC:

Yeah, Lunt did it in 2009, but what about 2007 and 2008 when he had the 3 all-stars and underachieved.  He was totally lost his first two years, and I am not sure UPS did not finally win in spite of Lunt, not because of Lunt.  Develop the talent?  He was given a winning hand with 3 of the best players in the league and didn't get it done.  (If that doesn't bring in the UPS faithfully, they are totally gone!).  Logie did!

All I am saying it that if I were on one of those teams, I don't want an allegiance promotion to take over for a legendary coach, I want the best candidate!  And I don't think UPS, Wil or LC got that.  I want the school to CTC to get one! 



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 17, 2012, 04:44:51 PM
What success has Cleary had in the NWC? Lunt got to the championship game last year by beating 3 times the coach that is suppose to be above him, Bridgeland. He did it with his own players, his own recruits, nothing about last year had anything to do with Bridgeland. Lunt didn't even play the run and gun game with him, they sat in a zone and took Bridge out of anything he wanted to do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 17, 2012, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 17, 2012, 09:28:32 AM
Yeah, Lunt did it in 2009, but what about 2007 and 2008 when he had the 3 all-stars and underachieved.  He was totally lost his first two years, and I am not sure UPS did not finally win in spite of Lunt, not because of Lunt.  Develop the talent?  He was given a winning hand with 3 of the best players in the league and didn't get it done.  (If that doesn't bring in the UPS faithfully, they are totally gone!).  Logie did!
Lol, are you serious? 2nd place, one game behind Whitworth in 2008, during which they lost to Whitworth twice by a combined total of 5 points. And 3rd place in 2007 with 3 all-stars that were underclassmen, with a stacked Whitworth team that year of Ryan Simes, Bryan Williams, and James Jones winning the conference that year. Thats underachieving?! Damn you are one hard person to please.
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 17, 2012, 09:28:32 AM
He was given a winning hand with 3 of the best players in the league and didn't get it done.
Those 3 future all stars were freshman during Bridgeland's last year, and Lunt did win a conference title with them so I am pretty sure that is getting it done. In comparison, Lunt inherited Foster, Kraul, and Williams all sophmores in Lunt's first season. Logie inherited Friedt, Gebbers,and Lufburrow all seniors in his first season.  I think Logie will do very well in the NWC, but I dont think its fair to bag on Lunt so quickly, especially since your formula for determining who is a good coach and who is not is flawed. 
Foreman has been a head coach for less than two years now and because he has not won a conference championship yet that makes him garbage? Silly logic.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 18, 2012, 09:38:36 PM
Keandre:

Welcome back!  Your points are well taken.  Whtiworth was stacked too, and they had some of the best battles the league has seen in years!  But I am hard to please.

FC: 

Bagging on Lunt is not done "so quickly".  I am just not impressed.  He has calmed down, but the ranting on the sideline during his first years was immature.  He held on to the full court pressure way too long.  And it goes on.  I just look at what he has done and feel a more experienced, seasoned coach would have done better over the time he has been there. 

And there is no way I came close to saying Foreman was garbage!  Don't go there.  He was tutored by one of the best coaches (along with Hayford) this league has seen in many years.  He certainly has been schooled in how to run a quality program.  It is too quickly to bag on him.

Look, I am generalizing on some of this stuff.  Nothing has been straight line up, down or the same, except Whitworth maintaining the top spot, and it is too early to bag on Logie, either.  But what I have seen and heard, and what I predict will happen, the trend will be that the promoted coaches will live in the middle of the league standings, and the schools that went out to recruit and spend of a quality coach will thrive and live at the top of the standings.  Look where Whitman was and where they are now.  Logie has maintained.  Pacific is on the rise.  Both LC and UPS have struggled a bit, UPS early and LC in league.  And I think these trends will continue!

Two last things:  Remember this post, I predict I will be referring to it later.  And we got a UPS post!!!!!





Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 19, 2012, 02:52:11 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 18, 2012, 09:38:36 PM
He has calmed down, but the ranting on the sideline during his first years was immature.
I liked this last post of yours must better because you mostly based who was successful and who wasn't on your opinion and observations, not on some arbitrary comparison formula that in the end didn't add up to what you wanted it to add up to. The only thing I have to disagree with you on is the quote above. Not the point that Lunt was very demonstrative on the sideline, but that this was exclusively immature for him. Have you seen Bridgeland, his mentor, on the sideline? When he coached at UPS Bridgeland was all over the place, in fact I recall standing on the court 15 feet away from him and hearing him yell at a referee "You mother f*$#ing c*^$ s#%^er!", I am sure you can fill in the letters. So Lunt was really just replicating what he was taught. This is all of course based on my assumption that you do not find Bridgeland's behavior immature since you did not mention him.  If that assumption is wrong then please disregard this comment.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 19, 2012, 10:38:28 PM
WW keeps winning, but the games are tight. The Redlands win was by comfortable margin, but that was due to a 16-2 run at the end of the game. Whitman seems to really be rolling over some teams.  I guess it's hard to compare at this point since they have few common opponents, but looking forward to league and especially the two games between the Whits. 

Anyone know how Logie and Bridgeland get along?  I assume better than Hayford and Bridgeland.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 19, 2012, 11:13:37 PM
I didn't know anyone got along with Bridgeland... :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on December 20, 2012, 01:44:39 AM
Rat:
I am having computer (or operator error) problems posting. I have typed my long analysis twice and can't get it to post.
So I will keep this brief and hopefully it will take.

W/W:
> coaches did not over- react when the two first halves were kind of sloppy on the part of both teams.
> did not seem real confident in first halves
> made subtle changes by coaches at halftime
> played a much more physical game in the second halves and closed the lanes to the basket, forcing a turnover, block shot
or poor shot selection from the outside.
> offensively passed sharper, screened more and had better shot selection
> played with more confidence

Winning programs schedule good teams and know how to win. You  have created a  tradition  or culture of winning, and it really shows at crunch time.

I don't think you have earned a #11 ranking yet,( a #11 team would have put Redlands and Chapman to bed earlier in the game) but as your team matures and learns how to come out stronger in the first
half, by season's end, your ranking will be earned.
I also comment the parience your coaches have with the younger guys on your team

Hopefully we can meet W/W in the regionals come next spring. I know our coaches will help our guys improve.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on December 20, 2012, 12:19:16 PM
The Bearcats had a tough loss to Redlands in overtime two days ago, but recovered for a nice comeback win over Chapman.  Dart has really taken his game to a different level so far this year, and while I don't think this Willamette team is top-four caliber, I don't think they'll be in the basement this year, either.

Also, it's nice to have a former WU student anchoring SportsCenter:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=661533769136&set=vb.225271707572245&type=2&theater
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on December 20, 2012, 03:18:57 PM
Bearcat:
I watched both of Willamette's games down at Chapman. You are right, they are not the top team in your conference, but, I
would not under-sell them
They are a solid team that will win their share of games. The Redland's game could have gone either way, and they earned their win over Chapman by continuing to come back when CU would extend the lead to 5 -9 points.  They played the last couple of minutes as good as anyone could have played. They really impressed me during that time. (Actually, they frustrated me because I thought we had the win.)
Good luck to your guys. It will be interesting to see how many W's they pick up against other NWC teams. I will be following
them. By the way, I was told that one of your guards is a running back on the football team. He is very athletic, and handles the ball very well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 21, 2012, 10:15:25 AM
Pacific was strong in their weak non-conference schedule last year and finished in the bottom of the NWC, what makes people think this will be different this season? Love Colin Wester and Charles Mosley though. Not sure why Cleary is getting so much love and he has not won AT ALL in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 21, 2012, 11:12:07 AM
Keandre:

It is because he is an experience, non-promoted coach!   :)

Because I live closest to PacU I have seen several of their games over the last 3 years.  The first year he had an all-star and a future in Webster, and nothing else.  They struggled.  The next he brought in some talent, but was extremely hard hit with injuries.  This year he brought in an all-state guard, and a very good JC transfer and has almost everyone back. 

IMO (I guess I need to use this more), that is a positive progression and he is rebuilding what I foresee to be the best OR team in the near future if not this year. 

FC:

I have never been a fan of Bridgeland's style, so I never saw why Lunt would want to copy it.  But Bridgeland took a perennial losing, lower tier team (Whitman) to the top tier remarkably quickly, so I have to give him credit for his results if not his style.   I was not around when he took over at UPS so I don't know what improvement he did there.  But the Whitman turnaround is a WOW.  Money works (Playball said it first).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 21, 2012, 01:19:49 PM
TMT, I have been following the NWC for years and Pacific was in the top 3 in Lowery's 3rd year which was I think 2007-2008, had a very good team coming back and very good recruit in Garold Howe. The next 2 promising years for Pacific, they were hit with injuries in both Bartlett brothers. No one said anything about that. Then, in 2008-2009, they were very good again almost beating Hawaii Pacific and taking 2 from Cal Lu and Whittier who were picked to finish 1-2 in the SCIAC, but they lost 2 important players to injury as well. All I am saying is that if we are going to say he lost games due to injury, then we can't say Lowery left the program with nothing because he had to deal with injuries as well which made it seem he left them with nothing. In actuality, he left them with Wester, Bartlett, Anglin, and Mosely with a promising Beatty coming in from Skagit. THAT IS NOT LEAVING A PROGRAM WITH NOTHING. As a matter of fact, Lowery had more wins his last year in the NWC with the "nothing" people say he left Cleary with and when Cleary took over with those same guys, he couldn't win anything. So someone please tell me what is so different between the program then and now? Besides a former D1 coach. Pacific was never left with nothing accept 3 all conference players and a future all conference player., It was injuries that stunted progress. By the way, what talent did he bring in his first year? It was Colin and Mosley who ran the show, Lowery's recruits and this is still the case today. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 21, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
I am not saying Pacific will not be good this year, next year, or any year for that matter, all I am saying is people in this blog are saying Cleary was left with nothing, that is not true. He had Bartlett, Wester, Mosley, LeMar Anglin, and Beatty coming in from Skagit. That is a pretty good five. But yes, injuries plagued them, just like they did with Lowery.

By the way, GO LOGGERS! They got 3 in a row in Cali. People say they will struggle but from the box score, they didn't have Rex Holmes, their starting guard who killed Whitman last year in the press, and they didn't have him against Whitworth which was huge too. Once they get healthy, lookout. They have size, speed, and the talent to get wins in the NWC. Lots of young guys getting many minutes too so lookout for them in the future as well. I love the NWC!!!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 21, 2012, 05:36:20 PM
Great article on Logie:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/dec/20/whits-logie-learned-about-life-hoops-from/

With regard to all this talk about coaches, I'm not sure there is much worth arguing about.  It really doesn't matter whether coaches have been promoted or brought in from the outside it's hard to predict how they will do.  What I can say is that I have enjoyed almost every NWC game I have watched in the last 10 years.  The overall coaching, teamwork, sportsmanship, execution etc. has been at the highest level of any conference I've seen. Some teams have underachieved, but not to the degree you see in other conferences (e.g. the whole Pac-12 last year).  That said, Pacific has not been as competitive as they should be the last 3 years or so and it would be nice to see them win a few more league games this year (just not against Whitworth). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 21, 2012, 09:47:23 PM
If Pacific can stay healthy they could easily be a playoff team this year. Willamette might surprise some people too...if they weren't so darn inconsistent...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 22, 2012, 05:15:40 AM
Batuik with 38 on 14-23 shooting.  I've been telling you guys to quit sleeping on him!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 22, 2012, 07:40:08 PM
Sorry for beating a dead horse, but...

Keandre:  Yes he was!  You cannot mix years.  Wester and Mosley were sophmores and Mosley was nothing.  Wester could only shoot if he was wide open.  Hardly the players they are today.  Anglin was a great talent, but very soft.  I have never seen a player take himself out of games as much as he did.  Sometimes he was good, most times just tried to look good.  Bartlett was good, but coming off an injury, not his best self.  Beatty was Cleary's recruit, and not one of the best point guards in the league any means as a junior.  And they had literally no bench to count on.  Trust me, he as dealt a losing hand.

They could finish low again this year, but I don't think they will.  They are up and down this year, getting some good wins and losing to Walla Walla.  I am done with this!

If UPS is on the upswing, it may be 3 of the 4 playoff teams are from WA.  Sorry, don't want that.  You have to go with the 2 Whit's but the other 2 are tough to call.  I think it will be a real dogfight for 3 and 4 between UPS, LC, PacU, and Fox, maybe PLU.  And if Linfield gets hot,...  Wilamette is probably the only team that hasn't shown signs of being in the mix.  Quite the prediction, huh?

Playball:  You know I am a Batuik fan.  I think I even said he was better than another all-league big from Linfield that I really liked.  Now what he needs to do is finish the year solid.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 23, 2012, 03:56:27 AM
Why is Whitman not ranked or even receiving votes.  They essentially have the same record as WW. Earlier they were at least getting some votes.  The NWC does not get much attention from the rest of the country. It seems like the only way we will ever get two teams in the tourney is to have the one team they rank get beat in our tournament like WW did a few years ago when UPS had that top 10 team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on December 23, 2012, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 23, 2012, 03:56:27 AM
They essentially have the same record as WW.

I found this statement endlessly entertaining.

Whether they should or shouldn't be ranked, January 8 their fate is in their own hands. Win the 3 games leading up to and then beat WW, they'll be a lock for a spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 23, 2012, 01:00:51 PM
I was at a party last night and talked to a friend of a parent of one of the LC players.  It sounds like Hollins' return will be soon, maybe the first game after Christmas.  No word on why it has taken so long.  That would be a big plus for the Pios if he can play well after 2 ACL injuries. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 23, 2012, 02:00:50 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 23, 2012, 01:00:51 PM
I was at a party last night and talked to a friend of a parent of one of the LC players.  It sounds like Hollins' return will be soon, maybe the first game after Christmas.  No word on why it has taken so long.  That would be a big plus for the Pios if he can play well after 2 ACL injuries.

While he would help with rebounding, I think that he would really need to grow about 5 or 6 inches in order to really help LC.  They don't seem to have any bigs contributing!  As for the validity of his comeback, I think Ive heard this for a while now...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2012, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 23, 2012, 03:56:27 AM
Why is Whitman not ranked or even receiving votes.  They essentially have the same record as WW. Earlier they were at least getting some votes.  The NWC does not get much attention from the rest of the country. It seems like the only way we will ever get two teams in the tourney is to have the one team they rank get beat in our tournament like WW did a few years ago when UPS had that top 10 team.

They had been getting votes but dropped off of a couple ballots. I expect they'll be back when we vote again after Jan. 1.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 23, 2012, 04:47:23 PM
Wait, are you questioning me, Playball?  How dare you!

Yeah, there seems to be something not clicking with LC.  The luster of a new season seems to have worn off.  You are right, the bigs, except for Erickson, contribute little and the 3's are not falling like they were early in the season.  Just hoping Hollins can provide some inspiration.  Speaking of which...

Merry Christmas to all!  Enjoy your family and friends!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 23, 2012, 07:00:31 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on December 23, 2012, 04:47:23 PM
Wait, are you questioning me, Playball?  How dare you!

Yeah, there seems to be something not clicking with LC.  The luster of a new season seems to have worn off.  You are right, the bigs, except for Erickson, contribute little and the 3's are not falling like they were early in the season.  Just hoping Hollins can provide some inspiration.  Speaking of which...

Merry Christmas to all!  Enjoy your family and friends!

No, I would never, EVER question anything you say TMT! 

Looks like the 3 actual post guys (Erickson doesn't count really) are nearly non existent.  Two of them get very limited minutes and the third, Bradley Carter, isn't even in the stats!  Rayford and Leathers need minutes to get better and they are not getting them.  I saw Leathers play this summer and actually played against him a little.  Could blossom in to a good post player if given the time.  Rayford, I have to admit, I don't know much about other than the stats show.  Is Carter injured also?

Looks like the best way to play LC would be to chase nearly everyone off of the 3pt line except for Erickson, and have them try and finish at the rim.  As a team they are shooting about 39% from 3.  That will stand up against some of the other lower tier teams in the league, but against anyone who pays attention LC will struggle to score.

So with some games played and teams being a little easier to dissect, what is everyone's predictions?

I have it this way

Whitworth
Whitman
PLU (Lost a couple close ones to some quality teams) Going out on a limb!
Fox
Linfield(one can hope...)
Pacific (starts hot, finds ways to falter)
Willamette (could finish higher depending on how Dart keeps going/stays healthy)
UPS
LC (No bigs!)

And like TMT said, happy holidays to everyone!

PS. Im shocked and happy that I never get docked Karma points for bagging on Hollins!  Must mean I'm on to something!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 23, 2012, 10:46:05 PM
Playball,

Your predictions are as good as any for how the league will shake out beyond the two Whits.  It looks like PLU will be 3rd.  After that, I think it will be random every night. It seems like the league has become more stratified the last 3 or 4 years. Any ideas why?

Happy Holidays to all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 24, 2012, 06:13:03 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 23, 2012, 10:46:05 PM
Playball,

Your predictions are as good as any for how the league will shake out beyond the two Whits.  It looks like PLU will be 3rd.  After that, I think it will be random every night. It seems like the league has become more stratified the last 3 or 4 years. Any ideas why?

Happy Holidays to all.

You already know my answer!  It has to do with money in the athletic departments being allocated to Basketball.  Being able to travel around and play better teams helps with national exposure and recruiting.  To me, I have no idea why anyone would want to go to Spokane or Walla Walla! But those schools have made an effort to put sports on a higher level.  Pacific also, but they are still in the building stages. 

And to rephrase what I said earlier with "I must be on to something" I really meant to say that I must be saying something right and agreeable. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 24, 2012, 07:20:19 PM
UPS and LC aren't spending any less on basketball than they have in the past. They both currently have less talent than in years past and its showing. Wether thats a result of coaching, recruiting, or just bad luck is up for debate though. The league has always been fairly deep IMO, but when you have a year where 2 traditional playoff teams have dropped off the face of the earth, it magnifies the issue of parity.

Merry Christmas and Happy (late) Hanukkah
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 25, 2012, 05:41:36 AM
Rat, what is your finishing order for the conference standings?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 26, 2012, 02:20:02 PM
playball...if I remember correctly from last season you are of cardinal and purple blood such as I, non?

QuoteBeing able to travel around and play better teams helps with national exposure and recruiting.

You do not showcasw a doting team when you want to recruit. You might do so with a winning team on the way up.

Perchance you can meet me in Las Vegas for some first quarter cheering.  I just found out we are playing there.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 26, 2012, 04:13:51 PM
Quote from: playball on December 25, 2012, 05:41:36 AM
Rat, what is your finishing order for the conference standings?

Whitw
Whitm
Pac
PLU
Fox
LC
Will
Linf
UPS

After the Whit's...I honestly would not be shocked with any of the other teams in the conference getting the 3rd and 4th spot. Total crap shoot this year IMO
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 26, 2012, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 26, 2012, 02:20:02 PM
playball...if I remember correctly from last season you are of cardinal and purple blood such as I, non?

QuoteBeing able to travel around and play better teams helps with national exposure and recruiting.

You do not showcasw a doting team when you want to recruit. You might do so with a winning team on the way up.

Perchance you can meet me in Las Vegas for some first quarter cheering.  I just found out we are playing there.

We are from the same school but you only bleed for football and maybe baseball.  And I will not be able to go to the games in Vegas, I will be in Paris for New Years. 

And when I was being recruited from some of the schools in the NWC (About a decade ago it seems now!!) a few of them used travel as a recruiting tool.  But yes, winning helps.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 27, 2012, 12:43:49 PM
QuoteI will be in Paris for New Years

WOW! Bon Voyage!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 30, 2012, 09:05:07 PM
Hamline beat Whitman 92-89. Looks like Hamline was talented and disciplined enough to handle the Whitman press and got some easy buckets. Whitman couldn't keep up on the other end.

It's always tough to gauge common opponents based on their play against Whitman, because of the "system". It really exposes some teams and can allow a less talented team to stay in (and win) the game. Hamline faces Whitworth up in Spokane tomorrow. Should be a good game and another opportunity to see how the Pirates stack up against another conference (MIAC).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 01, 2013, 09:07:00 PM
Whitworth handles Hamline 77-67 thanks to a handful of Technical fouls by the Pipers. Sounds like their coach really cost em the game. I don't care how much you disagree with the calls, more than 2 technical fouls is completely unnecessary and counterproductive to whatever it is you're trying to accomplish (unless losing is your ultimate goal).

Good to see Farnsworth starting to assert himself on the offensive end as well as on the glass. Whitworth seems to get big contributions from different players every other night which is what they need without a Symes, Taylor, Lassisi type player.

On a separate note, if any of you get the chance to go to Tahiti when it's cold and snowing in the NW, I highly recommend it...here's a picture from the fishing boat
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anony.ws%2Fi%2F2013%2F01%2F02%2FXOMkP.jpg&hash=c2d9e167c02b46323507bcd7e3114d214859f001)

happy new year everyone
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 02, 2013, 07:16:37 PM
Dear Rat,
  I got tired of the California sun and heat and came to Spokane for Christmas.  Loved it.  Nice to see some snow and ski a bit.  Why do you go to Tahiti when you live in paradise? ;D

Nice win by the Pirates.  It will be interesting to see how the Pirates do in league. Always tougher playing against teams that scout you well.  Weaknesses and youth are often exposed.  It will be interesting to see how Whitworth's young guys play in the league games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 03, 2013, 12:57:30 AM
Don't worry about me A Buc, I'll get my turns in this season.

This Whitworth team doesn't have the go to scorer that they've had in years past, which should make me nervous going into the conference schedule. But this team plays good defense and is really deep. There are 7 or so guys that can hit double figures on any given night. And most nights, you have 4-5 of them scoring in the low to mid teens.

It also helps that the other traditional "powers" are down. Even though the rest of the league seems a little more dangerous, they have all been wildly inconsistent. Oh, and no David Michaels for Whitman  ;D

As long as the Bucs don't drop more than a couple conference games I also think they've put together a resume that would get them into the tourney even without the auto-bid. Unlike the OR and Western WA teams, Whitworth has played almost an entirely DIII schedule. Which, those of us who follow football know is what you have to do to be a strong at-large, pool c, whatever you want to call it, candidate
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 05, 2013, 01:44:42 AM
Whitman    84    Lewis & Clark    88   
Willamette    62    Puget Sound    75   
Whitworth    80    Pacific (Ore.)    77   
George Fox    71    Linfield            67- OT

Interesting night of basketball.  Would not have picked LC and I thought WW would pull away from Pacific.  Would not be surprised by anything that happens in this league at this point.  Nice to see WW with another win.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 05, 2013, 05:36:11 PM
Whitworth was in control throughout. They did start to pull away but uncharacteristically let a team back in the game. Pacific closed it from a 17 point deficit to an 8 point deficit, and finally down to 3 with about 2 minutes left in the game. Pacific shot well at the end of the game and I thought the Bucs relaxed a little on D after building the big lead.

The Whitman result isn't shocking. LC has been a guard dominated team for awhile now and always been plenty talented to beat the Whitman press and get easy buckets in transition. Whitman has plenty of guys who can score but their defensive intensity is nothing more than a facade. They "look" like they are trying to stop you from scoring but really they could care less. They haven't stopped anyone all season...

UPS looks like they might finish higher than many of us expected. Doesn't mean they are any good, just means that inconsistent Bearcats are inconsistent...we should make a meme...

Linfield has to win games against teams like Fox if they want to even think about finishing in the top half of the league.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 06, 2013, 01:17:41 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 05, 2013, 05:36:11 PM
inconsistent Bearcats are inconsistent...we should make a meme...

;D

Not sure it's even "Bearcats" so much as it's Malley - if he's on, Willamette wins games.  If he's not, look out.  Case in point: tonight's game against Fox.  Malley starts hot, Bearcats are up 19 early in the second half.  Malley cools off, GFU almost pulls off the comeback win.

I'll take it, though.  Getting to five wins the first weekend of January feels a heck of a lot better than getting to five wins on senior day.  WU vs. a similarly hot/cold L&C next Friday should be a very interesting game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 06, 2013, 03:12:13 AM
Thanks BP, I feel like I am the tiniest bit more prepared to determine what Willamette will do on any given night  ;)

Scores tonight
Whitman    76     Pacific  65
Whitworth  78     LC       66
Willamette  85    Fox      74
PLU           75    Linfield  61
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 06, 2013, 03:24:41 AM
playball,

this is why I love Hollins so much. From tonight:

Hollins, James  6-18 (33% FG)  2-10 (20% 3pt)  14 pts with a team leading 31 minutes played....He is the Jerry Stackhouse of the NWC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 06, 2013, 03:32:09 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2013, 03:24:41 AM
playball,

this is why I love Hollins so much. From tonight:

Hollins, James  6-18 (33% FG)  2-10 (20% 3pt)  14 pts with a team leading 31 minutes played....He is the Jerry Stackhouse of the NWC

I woke up early this morning and decided to check the boards.  I had to be quiet so I didn't wake anyone else in the house up.  This post almost ruined it as I started to actually laugh!  Regardless of his stats though, I'm happy for the guy that he is back playing again. 

Bearcat: I don't understand why Babcock-Krenk and Dart aren't the main guys of that offense.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 06, 2013, 11:06:08 AM
Completely agree on rooting for Hollins to come back from injury. I don't wish injury on anyone, and that includes Linfield football players.

I'm glad I could provide some comedic relief for you this morning...don't worry, I'm here all week  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 07, 2013, 01:48:33 AM
Watched parts of both WW games this weekend.  Fun team to watch.  Quick and they play hard.  Farnsworth is ahead of Felix and Nate at the sophomore level.  Could be great before he's done. My friend coached him high school.  Didn't even make the JV team when he was a sophomore, grew late.  Good player by his senior year. Another late bloomer like Nate.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 07, 2013, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 07, 2013, 01:48:33 AM
Watched parts of both WW games this weekend.  Fun team to watch.  Quick and they play hard.  Farnsworth is ahead of Felix and Nate at the sophomore level.  Could be great before he's done. My friend coached him high school.  Didn't even make the JV team when he was a sophomore, grew late.  Good player by his senior year. Another late bloomer like Nate.

If I remember right, Nate wasn't even on our scouting report until after the first game of my sophomore year.  He killed us.  What an animal.  Who does the freshman kid play like from WW teams of old?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 08, 2013, 01:59:39 PM
If you're talking about Valle, I don't know if there's a great comparison. I would say he's like a smaller version of Colin Willemsen. Gets to the rim and finishes well. Can post up smaller defenders (relative to his own size). Has a decent outside shot and defends well. Really doesn't wow you physically, but sort of a solid all around player that you can count on contributing 10-15 per game. A buc might have a better comparison though, Willemsen was just the first one to jump out at me, even though Colin played more of a 4...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 09, 2013, 02:27:22 AM
WW scratches out a win.  I watched the first half. If WW had handled the press and got back faster wouldn't have been close. I was surprised WW didn't do a better job on the press, but Whitman is tough.

Not sure who Valle plays like. More of a perimeter player than Colin was and not as big inside. But he's just a freshman.  As his game evolves he could be more like Colin inside.  If he develops a better outside shot he could be special.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2013, 08:53:45 AM
Is the Whit v Whit game over yet...?

Whitman is a good team. I agree with A buc though that Whitworth struggled with the press more than I thought they would. It was only a couple 3-4 minute stretches that really killed them in this game though. You clean those up and it doesn't go to a first overtime, let alone a second.

Oh well, 13 in a row. Ranked #5 in the country. Tough to complain. Although I will say that #5 ranking is probably a bit high for this team right now. But if everyone else around them is losing....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 10, 2013, 03:25:37 AM
We forgot to mention the impressive 23 point 2nd overtime by the Bucs!!!  Keep that up for a whole game and you can put up 180.

You can argue with the #5 ranking and talk about talent levels, etc., but this team finds a way to win.  I also like the motion offense that gets everyone involved and doesn't rely on isolation plays. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 10, 2013, 07:18:45 AM
Getting everyone involved is great and all, but when it comes down to needing a bucket do they have a player they can turn to on a regular basis?  I would argue that this is almost a more of a plus during playoff time!  I am kind of surprised with that game being as close at it was.  I thought Whitman would have a real rough time this year with the loss of Michaels. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 10, 2013, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: playball on January 10, 2013, 07:18:45 AM
Getting everyone involved is great and all, but when it comes down to needing a bucket do they have a player they can turn to on a regular basis?  I would argue that this is almost a more of a plus during playoff time!

Playball,

I have to disagree with you on this one.  The idea of isolating someone and letting them go to work comes from NBA style ball in which helping on defense is discouraged by the rules.  What constitutes normal help defense in college is illegal in the NBA.  NBA rules allow Dennis Rodman types to go sit in a corner on offense and this still gives Michael Jordan space to work.  You put the two of them in a game with college rules and the guy guarding Rodman is hanging in the key messing things up for Jordan.  Isolation doesn't work in college when you have a good athlete guarding a team's go to guy and you don't have enough ball movement to keep the other guys honest.  I think relying on isolation when games get tough is what hurt Whitworth in some of their losses in the Hayford era.  If you just agree with me I won't bring up any specific examples of games that you probably want to forget.  ;)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 10, 2013, 01:36:59 PM
Gebbers is the guy they will go to when things get tough. He may not get a shot all the time, but he will make the right play to get what their team needs. He is a very special player. He is a GREAT decision maker and big shot taker. I think McConnell is underrated, he can PLAY!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 11, 2013, 06:05:27 AM
When a team relies solely on one player for the majority of the game is the point you are bringing up Buc.  I am talking about when things get difficult.  An example of riding a player hen things get tough would be when Nate torched us at WW when he was a junior in the playoff game.  A guy that comes up with that big bucket.  MJ was MJ and Rodman was a total bum on the offensive end until the rebound was loose.  Kind of a far flung example.

And Keandre, I agree that Gebbers is a tough kid, but the games Ive checked on he has struggled a bit.  That has surprised me since in the past it seemed like this kid could not miss a shot or do any type of wrong!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2013, 10:13:40 AM
Playball,

    Gebbers has been hurt on and off this year.  Seems to be getting healthy for league though.
   
   I agree it is great to have a guy that can get you a bucket in crunch time, but what I'm talking about is having a team that runs a balanced offense that gets everyone involved versus isolation plays. The MJ example is relevant. I think a whole game of isolation plays makes you stagnant. it's not as effective in college as it is in the NBA because of the rule differences.

BTW, it's more than Gebbers/McConnell.  WW has had several other players have big nights. A couple guys have come off the bench and had huge games to lead the charge. Tough team to scout. You don't know who is going to come up big.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 11, 2013, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 10, 2013, 03:25:37 AM
We forgot to mention the impressive 23 point 2nd overtime by the Bucs!!!  Keep that up for a whole game and you can put up 180.

I listened to the two overtimes, and my initial reaction to this was going to be "Well, they shot a lot of free throws... it's easy to score lots of points if you do it when the clock isn't running."

I thought that because, during the second OT (which took quite some time), I remember tweeting something to the effect of "This is turning into a free throw shooting contest."

But that's not (completely) why Whitworth scored so many points and won.

There were a lot of free throws in the second OT (17), though WW only took 5 of them (and made all 5... WM was 9/12). Whitworth was also a perfect 8/8 from the field.

After a WM TO started the second OT and the teams traded baskets to tie it at 91, here's how the next 2 1/2 minutes went:

WW Made 3 (+3 WW)
WM TO (+3 WW)
WW Made 3 (+6 WW)
WM 1/2 FT's (+5 WW)
WW layup (+7 WW)
WM TO (+7 WW)
WW layup +1 (+10 WW)

It was basically academic at that point... for a Whitman team that had been pressing all game, 60% of the time was gone and they were down 10. They didn't quit... they forced two Whitworth turnovers on the next two possessions but could *only* hit 3/4 FT's (I say "only" kind of tongue in cheek... they did cut the lead in just :15), but you could tell that Whitman was exhausted from all of the additional energy expended from their press.

Whitworth's two 3's to start the second OT were enormous... but if you look at the other 6 shots, they were layups (if the play by play can be believed... though I seem to recall this as being fairly accurate). It's much easier to go 6/6 on layups than on jumpers... and Whitworth was able to break the press and either get quick easy scores or break down the defense in the half court setting and score a high percentage shot.

Quote
You can argue with the #5 ranking and talk about talent levels, etc., but this team finds a way to win.  I also like the motion offense that gets everyone involved and doesn't rely on isolation plays.

Other than the biggest test (UST @ Whitworth in Whit's game #1), Whitworth can't do anything other than play their schedule and beat the teams that they play. They've done that thus far this year, and that's all anyone can ask of them.

For a team like Whitworth, who has had several years of recent success, or the UPS teams of the early Aughts, they always run into this question because they're forced to play other west coast teams (no matter if they're good or not or even D-III teams or not). They get the occasional team who flies out to play them (a la UST) or they make a trip east (Pat said that they're playing in Las Vegas next year, and there will also be 3 WIAC teams there, yay inter-regional opponents!) but other than that, they're stuck with who they're stuck with.

Whit needs to just keep beating the teams that they play and let the chips fall where they may. They'll get yet another opportunity to prove themselves worthy in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 11, 2013, 01:38:27 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 11, 2013, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 10, 2013, 03:25:37 AM
We forgot to mention the impressive 23 point 2nd overtime by the Bucs!!!  Keep that up for a whole game and you can put up 180.

I listened to the two overtimes, and my initial reaction to this was going to be "Well, they shot a lot of free throws... it's easy to score lots of points if you do it when the clock isn't running."

I thought that because, during the second OT (which took quite some time), I remember tweeting something to the effect of "This is turning into a free throw shooting contest."

Because I remember crazy stuff like that (for a couple days at least) I think it was with about 1:30 left. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 11, 2013, 02:20:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 11, 2013, 01:38:27 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 11, 2013, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 10, 2013, 03:25:37 AM
We forgot to mention the impressive 23 point 2nd overtime by the Bucs!!!  Keep that up for a whole game and you can put up 180.

I listened to the two overtimes, and my initial reaction to this was going to be "Well, they shot a lot of free throws... it's easy to score lots of points if you do it when the clock isn't running."

I thought that because, during the second OT (which took quite some time), I remember tweeting something to the effect of "This is turning into a free throw shooting contest."

Because I remember crazy stuff like that (for a couple days at least) I think it was with about 1:30 left. :)

It was likely then, or soon thereafter... from the 1:45 mark until the end of the game, Whitworth shot 4 FT's and Whitman shot 10.

It just took forever for that game to end due to foul shots... but it wasn't Whitworth who was shooting them, it was Whitman!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 12, 2013, 12:53:46 AM
Another close win. This team doesn't win easily, but they win.  I'll take it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 12, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 12, 2013, 12:53:46 AM
Another close win. This team doesn't win easily, but they win.  I'll take it.

I didn't watch the whole game... just the last 7 minutes or so. How did WW get so many turnovers? GF pressure? Or largely unforced TO's?

Hard to tell if this is just a hangover from Tuesday's game or if there are more troubles afoot for WW.


Listening to the end of the GF broadcast... did I hear that right? GF turns right around an plays Whitman tomorrow? So Whitman gets 4 days rest and GF gets none? That's a strange schedule...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 12, 2013, 01:29:13 AM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 12, 2013, 01:01:33 AM

I didn't watch the whole game... just the last 7 minutes or so. How did WW get so many turnovers? GF pressure? Or largely unforced TO's?

Hard to tell if this is just a hangover from Tuesday's game or if there are more troubles afoot for WW.


Listening to the end of the GF broadcast... did I hear that right? GF turns right around an plays Whitman tomorrow? So Whitman gets 4 days rest and GF gets none? That's a strange schedule...


I just caught the end also.  WW seems to be winning a lot of games like this. Not exactly dominating.  Just getting it done.  It didn't look like the GF pressure was that great. The announcers even said it wasn't GF pressure, but Whitworth played sloppy.

The schedule works out this way.  After Whitworth and Whitman play each other on Tuesday night, they each play one game the next weekend against the same team.  Really not fair for the team that has to travel and play them back to back while the Whits just play one game that weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 12, 2013, 04:22:39 AM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 12, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 12, 2013, 12:53:46 AM
Another close win. This team doesn't win easily, but they win.  I'll take it.
Listening to the end of the GF broadcast... did I hear that right? GF turns right around an plays Whitman tomorrow? So Whitman gets 4 days rest and GF gets none? That's a strange schedule...

Thats what happens when one of the Oregon schools doesn't get paired up with another school for games.  Their "travel partner".  Every year this happens to some unlucky team.  Makes a tough trip east even tougher.

Trouble in paradise for WW?  I doubt it.  Its a long season, and there is bound to be down games like this for any team, just not usually seen that much, if at all, from WW. 
"But as he has so many times in his career, Wade Gebbers came up with the big shot for the Pirates.  His long three-pointer stemmed the tide and started Whitworth on its final game-winning 10-2 run."  From the D3 hoops write up.  Looks like whoever writes these things reads the boards!!

Linfield beats UPS!!!  Batuik is an animal.  25-12-5  POY?  He has to be a first teamer at least.  Name is all over the top 10 league lists for stats.  Pretty impressive for a soph.

I didn't see this coming at all, but Pacific downs PLU at PLU.  Another youngster getting it done with Brakebush scoring 26.  From the pictures of the game the place looks packed!  Not surprised though, PLU was a fun place to play with some rowdy students, regardless of the teams record.

And Willamette falls to LC.  Not surprised much here.  However, with the lack of size that LC has, I thought Willamette would go to Dart more than 8 times.  And they might not have given him the ball even that much since he did have 3 O boards.  I get it that when Malley goes, the team goes.  However, in a game against a 6'3 and under squad like LC he should not be taking 20 shots!  Big game for Justin Leathers.  Hard working big for LC.  Shot it well last night.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 12, 2013, 04:33:37 AM
Whitworth did play sloppy tonight, but as some of you called a few days ago, it was Gebbers who hit the big shot when they needed it to lift the Bucs. Many of the turnovers were self-inflicted. A stupid travel here. A bad pass there. But credit the Fox defense for a lot of the turnovers. After Whitworth dominated in the paint early (remember they built a 20-5 lead before Fox went on something like a 26-5 run the rest of the first half), Fox made defensive adjustments to collapse on the WW bigs, which, 1) caused some turnovers from the WW bigs, and 2) opened up a lot of kick-out looks for their guards. It's just their guards went cold for about a 10-minute stretch. Like, really cold.

Second half, WW made a comeback, got up 8-ish before Fox made it a game late. Fox led by six with two minutes left or so when Gebbers came up with a HUGE and DEEP 3. Then WW got defensive stops on their next three or four possessions. Getting defensive stops in the clutch (a la WM's last possession in regulation) has become what this team is all about. WW didn't deserve to win tonight, but they found a way, which is what good teams do. Are they the fifth best team in the nation? They don't have #5 in the nation talent (or probably even top 10 talent), but they just find a way to win games and that's all that matters.

The thing about this team: they aren't the most talented WW team. In fact, they probably are the least talented WW team in a decade. But they are tough, gritty, well-coached, can play any number of styles (won shoot-out with WM and won a grind-it-out game with Fox in three days), and can come up with a stop when they need it. And sometimes that's all it takes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 12, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 12, 2013, 04:33:37 AM
Whitworth did play sloppy tonight, but as some of you called a few days ago, it was Gebbers who hit the big shot when they needed it to lift the Bucs. Many of the turnovers were self-inflicted. A stupid travel here. A bad pass there. But credit the Fox defense for a lot of the turnovers. After Whitworth dominated in the paint early (remember they built a 20-5 lead before Fox went on something like a 26-5 run the rest of the first half), Fox made defensive adjustments to collapse on the WW bigs, which, 1) caused some turnovers from the WW bigs, and 2) opened up a lot of kick-out looks for their guards. It's just their guards went cold for about a 10-minute stretch. Like, really cold.

Second half, WW made a comeback, got up 8-ish before Fox made it a game late. Fox led by six with two minutes left or so when Gebbers came up with a HUGE and DEEP 3. Then WW got defensive stops on their next three or four possessions. Getting defensive stops in the clutch (a la WM's last possession in regulation) has become what this team is all about. WW didn't deserve to win tonight, but they found a way, which is what good teams do. Are they the fifth best team in the nation? They don't have #5 in the nation talent (or probably even top 10 talent), but they just find a way to win games and that's all that matters.

The thing about this team: they aren't the most talented WW team. In fact, they probably are the least talented WW team in a decade. But they are tough, gritty, well-coached, can play any number of styles (won shoot-out with WM and won a grind-it-out game with Fox in three days), and can come up with a stop when they need it. And sometimes that's all it takes.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg231.imageshack.us%2Fimg231%2F408%2Fkigeagreekk7wm4.jpg&hash=a96e26d275d1f32c0892df208cf0a9052133e6db)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 12, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
Quote from: playball on January 12, 2013, 04:22:39 AM
Trouble in paradise for WW?  I doubt it.  Its a long season, and there is bound to be down games like this for any team, just not usually seen that much, if at all, from WW. 
"But as he has so many times in his career, Wade Gebbers came up with the big shot for the Pirates.  His long three-pointer stemmed the tide and started Whitworth on its final game-winning 10-2 run."  From the D3 hoops write up.  Looks like whoever writes these things reads the boards!!

I have to think there was some holdover from the extra "quarter" that WW played on Tuesday, but the number of turnovers is concerning.

I don't know if it was the pressure or what... but George Fox did just about everything they could at the end of the game to lose that one. You have to give some credit to WW for forcing their will... but GF turned the ball over 4 times, missed the front end of a 1 & 1, and shot two airballs.

From purely a talent standpoint, you could tell that Whitworth was the better team... they certainly shot the ball better. But I think they were slow on defense and it caused them to foul. GF was almost able to overcome a nearly 20% difference in shooting percentage between WW and GF by getting to the line and making WW pay.

I do feel sorry for George Fox... having to turn right around and play a rested Whitman today, in a game that certainly won't end up 61-59. Whitman just causes opponents to play much faster than that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 13, 2013, 12:08:36 AM
Fox beat Whitman...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUmpOi.gif&hash=89abfc22f681de79f858b6cf6bff470e2aea576c)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 13, 2013, 12:27:47 AM
Quote from: playball on January 06, 2013, 03:32:09 AM
Bearcat: I don't understand why Babcock-Krenk and Dart aren't the main guys of that offense.  Any thoughts?

To be fair, WU ran a ton of plays trying to get EBK open for threes last night.  L&C just did a great job keeping him under wraps.  Dart, though, was on the bench for much of the second half, including when the Pioneers went on their big run to take over the game.  To me, that was mystifying.

Also, I've given up trying to understand what's happening this year with the eight NWC teams not named Whitworth.  Fox beating Whitman is ridiculous.  So is Willamette beating PLU on the road despite shooting 18-27 from the free throw line.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 13, 2013, 02:23:19 PM
Current NWC standings... ???

Whitworth              6-0
George Fox              3-2
Willamette              3-2
Pacific (Ore.)      2-2
Lewis & Clark      3-3
Whitman              3-3
Pacific Lutheran      2-4
Linfield              2-4
Puget Sound      1-5

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m6md4x3qtX1qh4gxx.gif&hash=70ff7600a64cac57ff743d3b153781a429fd20b7)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 13, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
Oh man, Rat found GIFs...

I've never understood Fox so I won't act like I might attempt to now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 13, 2013, 04:52:53 PM
Who will be 2, 3, and 4?  My guesses (and boy are they guesses):

2.  Whitman--Still the best team after Whitworth. 

3.  Pacific--They beat the teams they should beat.

4. LC--There are plenty of teams in the conference without a strong inside game so LC can get enough wins to make it to #4. Plus, I'm betting on Hollins to win a game or two for them.

Most Likely To Beat Out One Of The Teams Above:  Fox--They've got the talent to beat LC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 13, 2013, 07:26:20 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2013, 12:08:36 AM
Fox beat Whitman...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUmpOi.gif&hash=89abfc22f681de79f858b6cf6bff470e2aea576c)

LOL. And I officially have no idea what's going on in the NWC...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 14, 2013, 07:32:44 PM
Whitworth moves up to #4. This team isn't playing like the 4th best team in the country, but with as bad as the NWC is this year, I don't know if they'll lose again...

If you can turn the ball over 20 times and give the other team 14 more shots and still don't lose??? Maybe The BeltTM has chosen....

We'll see if the pollsters are paying attention if St. Thomas loses. I'm guessing they fall behind Whitworth even with the road victory over the Pirates. Seems to be the way most polls work, very what have you done for me lately.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 15, 2013, 04:57:09 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 13, 2013, 04:52:53 PM
Who will be 2, 3, and 4?  My guesses (and boy are they guesses):

2.  Whitman--Still the best team after Whitworth. 

3.  Pacific--They beat the teams they should beat.

4. LC--There are plenty of teams in the conference without a strong inside game so LC can get enough wins to make it to #4. Plus, I'm betting on Hollins to win a game or two for them.

Most Likely To Beat Out One Of The Teams Above:  Fox--They've got the talent to beat LC.

I dont know why but I think Willamette finish in the top 4.  I'd probably have them over LC.  I only say that because I still think Willamette is playing ok but have a lot left in the tank in terms of figuring out how to use Dart and Babcock-Krenk.  Once these two guys are getting looks (Malley is nice, but not 20 Shots/game nice.) I think they will be very tough.  Always a tough game down in Salem, fun atmosphere.  But Fox could also upend any of these teams.  What a crazy year of parity so far.  Anyone's ballgame from here on out
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2013, 11:47:06 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 14, 2013, 07:32:44 PM
Whitworth moves up to #4. This team isn't playing like the 4th best team in the country, but with as bad as the NWC is this year, I don't know if they'll lose again...

If you can turn the ball over 20 times and give the other team 14 more shots and still don't lose??? Maybe The BeltTM has chosen....

We'll see if the pollsters are paying attention if St. Thomas loses. I'm guessing they fall behind Whitworth even with the road victory over the Pirates. Seems to be the way most polls work, very what have you done for me lately.

True -- and that game is now a long time ago. If St. Thomas loses a conference game it will be to someone who is significantly lower down the pecking order than UST is, so that would have to have some sort of impact.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 17, 2013, 04:52:28 PM
My picks for the weekend.  Good luck to everyone else doing this also....

WW over Willamette.  Gebbers shuts down Malley, which may be good for the overall team growth of Willamette since Dart and Co. will get more looks, but it wont help them this game.  WW by 14

GFU over UPS.   Fox is up and down, but I think they take it to UPS who is mostly just down this year.  GF by 8

L&C over PLU.  Hollins is on a good little streak and L&C is looking like they are starting to put it together.  LC by 7

Whitman gets upset by Lin.... I just can't write it.  Whitman wins at home with Batuik having his 22 and 8.  The Whitman guards are more polished than Linfield's and it shows in this game.  I can't stand Whitman, but what Bridgeland has done up there and in the little time it has taken him to do so is impressive.   Whitman by 18
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 17, 2013, 07:27:55 PM
Playball, 

I like your picks. The one most likely to be wrong is GF over PLU. PLU could come up big and win that one, but I'd still bet on GF.

I'd like to see WW win by 14, but they seem to be letting teams stick around. Probably won't be double digits.

Pacific is my team of destiny and they should have had LC Tuesday night. Their freshman didn't shoot well.  I guess it was time for a subpar performance from him.  If he can consistently play like he did in the wins, Pacific could be #2 in the conference at the end of the year.

One question for Playball--What's wrong with Linfield?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 17, 2013, 09:03:01 PM
I'm really confused as to what post A Buc read...anyways, my picks for Friday

Whitworth finally gets a little rest and shows up ready to play. Willamette is better than their record would indicate but I'm with playball. This will be the game where they finally beat someone like they're supposed to. Whit by 12

UPS beats GF, because this is the NWC and it's exactly what shouldn't happen in this game. UPS squeeks one out on the road by 3.

L&C is playing better than I thought, PLU is playing worse. Gonna go with LC as well. Another close game, LC by 2

Whitman isn't as good as they were last year. But like playball, I don't trust the guard play of Linfield. Which means the press will be effective and the Missionaries will dictate the pace. Whitman by 16. For what its worth, I hope I'm wrong about this one...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 17, 2013, 11:23:58 PM
Sorry Rat.  Meant LC not GF.  Could see LC losing to PLU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 18, 2013, 03:46:56 AM
Inconsistent guard play is what is wrong with Linfield.  I don't mean to sound like I'm reminiscing but when we made playoffs and nearly did my freshman year (tie-breaker, damn) we had very good guard play.  Steve Taylor, who was lights out, Brian Murphy, Cody Tesoro, Drew Schroeder who was like Bo Gregg with a little less on offense, and Erik Olson to name a few.  In the few years since, Linfield hasn't really had that. 

Granted, being a post player type, I'm going to be biased. 

Also, forgot to give credit where credit is due.  Great game by Hollins last week.  Scored 36 and it looked efficient on the box score.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 19, 2013, 01:12:27 AM
Good picks Playball. You were 100% right.  Saturday night games:

Whitworth over Linfield   
George Fox over PLU--toughest pick         
Pacific over Puget Sound--Let's see if Pacific is for real.         
Whitman over Willamette

Watched the WW game tonight. Liking this team more and more every time I watch them.  Willamette has some good looking athletes, but there are some unorthodox looking shots on that team.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 19, 2013, 05:09:11 AM
Thanks Buc.

Tonight I am going with:

WW over Linfield.  Whitworth has the home-cooking officials to put them over the edge to win this one.
Fox over PLU.  PLU won't be able to stop their descent down towards the bottom of the conference.  I look to see AJ Grant step up and have a big game.  He is due for one.
Pacific over UPS.  Brakenbush (sp?) will have a good game and UPS will continue to not.
Whitman over Willamette.  With holding Batuik to 5 points, maybe the Whitman interior defense learned not to front at the high post.  Dumbest game plan I have ever seen.  But I digress.  Whitman plays good D, Willamette takes bad shots, Whitman scores 80+ tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2013, 11:29:02 AM
Whitworth - it will be closer than the previous night's games for both teams
Fox - time to stop doubting 'em I guess
UPS - I've gotten so used to chaos, this whole "favorites" winning their games-thing that happened last night still doesn't feel real. So Im picking UPS one more time
Whitman - Malley is good but he got flustered and turned the ball over too easily last night. They won't have the nearly 20 TO's in the first half that Linfield did, but Whitman will have their way with the Bearkitties.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 20, 2013, 11:10:43 AM
Halfway through the league schedule (almost) and there's some clarity. UPS, PLU, and Linfield are now very long shots for the playoffs. Pacific still has two games to finish out the first half.  Win both and they are right in the mix. Willamette has a shot but they don't look consistent enough to get up in the standings with LC, Fox, and Whitman. 

I'm surprised Whitman isn't a clear second and impressed with Fox.  I like how LC has gotten this far without a big. Nice to see Pacific coming up.  The big question left is whether the Bucs can do the double of an undefeated league schedule and win the conference tournament. I like this team.  I'm betting on them to do it. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 21, 2013, 02:06:14 PM
For the visual learners. Current NWC standings at the half way mark (kinda):

1. Whitworth   8-0   
2. George Fox   5-2
3. Lewis & Clark   5-3   
4. Whitman           5-3   
5. Pacific       3-3
6. Willamette   3-4
7. PLU           2-6
8. Linfield           2-6
9. Puget Sound   1-7
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 21, 2013, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 21, 2013, 02:06:14 PM
For the visual learners. Current NWC standings at the half way mark (kinda):

1. Whitworth   8-0   
2. George Fox   5-2
3. Lewis & Clark   5-3   
4. Whitman           5-3   
5. Pacific       3-3
6. Willamette   3-4
7. PLU           2-6
8. Linfield           2-6
9. Puget Sound   1-7

Wow, UPS is terrible. 
Linfield.
PLU has surprised me so far.  I thought they would contend for a tourny spot. (who knows though, they still might.  Screwed up Conference this year)
Willamette goes as Malley goes so far.  Hopefully Dart will get some more touches/shot attempts.  Shooting % is unreal high.
Pacific.  For as good as I thought this team was doing, Im surprised they are only 3-3.
Whitman is tough.  Especially at home, but has shown they are not as tough as many of us thought at the start of the season.
LC has overcome the lack of an inside game completely to be in 3rd.  Hollins has had some good games, Erickson has been consistent, so has their rotation of bigs.... NONE!  Shocking, but the conference is low on bigs and has been for a while.
George Fox, who saw this coming?  I didn't.  Still can't stand those guys.
Whitworth has been the class of the conference.  You know you have it good when we as posters dissect each game closely for every negative we can find and your team is 8-0.  Yeah they have played a little up and down in stretches, but they have made every big play they have needed to.  I think Fox will sink them in the second half though.  HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 22, 2013, 01:12:34 AM
Fox gave Whitworth a game on their home court.  I don't think it will be close at Whitworth's home court.

St. Thomas lost this weekend.  Now we are faced with the question of both teams having one loss, but team St. Thomas has a win over WW early in the season. Now fresh off a loss will the voters put St. Thomas behind WW?  I think St. Thomas will go to #3 and WW will stay #4.

I'm rooting for Pacific this week.  It would be good for the conference for them to have a good year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 22, 2013, 02:12:22 AM
I'm not 100% sure that St. Thomas will stay ahead of Whitworth. That's just how most polls work. Your most recent loss tends to negate much of what you've done throughout the season. I'm the type of person that puts the most stock in head to head results when available, especially when the number of total losses is identical. If it were me, Rochester would bump up to 1 and St. Thomas would stay ahead of Whitworth. Whether that means the Tommies stay ahead of Middlebury, I don't know. Even though Midd may not be as good as their record indicates according to what you read on the NESCAC and National boards/threads, I'd probably reward them for being undefeated in what we know is one of the better conferences (at the top) in the country. So I guess I'd put them at #2, St. Thomas at #3 and leave Whitworth at 4. WPI needs to beat Springfield before I'd jump them over the 5 teams ahead of them (NCC included).

But, none of this really matters. Midd has to play Williams and Amherst. Whitworth has to go down to Whitman, WPI has Springfield next week, NCC has 2 games against Ill Wes, Rochester still has to play Wash U, NYU (x2), Brandeis, and Chicago (all capable of beating the yellowjackets).....

oh and BTW, we have this whole tournament thing at the end of the year that will sort it all out for us.

Here's to hoping Whitworth wins out, or at least doesn't drop more than 1 game, get's the AQ and FINALLY gets to host up to the elite 8. And seeing Whitworth take on championship caliber teams in their own gyms over the years, I'd like the Pirates chances in Spokane. With the distance, the crowd, and the setup of the fieldhouse, it's a solid homecourt advantage. Of course, St. Thomas will tell you that it's not that big of a deal  ;)

in case there are any lurkers from other conferences/regions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjr2VjCCHPE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjr2VjCCHPE)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 22, 2013, 05:05:30 PM
Question of the day.  Mack Larkin and Wade Gebbers have 94 wins under their belt at Whitworth.  How many do they have when the season is over? Games left: 8 Regular season games. 2 probable conference tournament games. Up to 6 games in the national tournament. Win all for a total of 110. Good number to shoot for.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 23, 2013, 09:35:38 PM
Typical Willamette/Linfield slugfest last night.  From the very start, it looked like WU's game plan was to shut down Batiuk and make the rest of the team beat them; and to Linfield's credit, they had a bunch of guys step up and carry the load, particularly in the first half.

Willamette also did a nice job defending on Linfield's last possession.  The last shot was a wide - I mean WIDE - open look, but of all the guys on the floor, I'm pretty sure Cody Jurgens was the last one Doty wanted to take that shot.

And if anybody needed more evidence that Willamette's success this year is firmly hitched to the Malley wagon, I give you this box score excerpt:

FG: 9-16, 3PT: 5-9, FT: 7-8, 30 points.

To be fair, he also had five assists, including a gorgeous one-handed feed to Noah Ripley down low, and on a night when EBK had to sit because of foul trouble, the Bearcats needed him to take over.  Pacific on Friday night should be a very interesting game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 24, 2013, 05:29:45 PM
The weekend games are coming up.  Predictions:

Friday

         Lewis & Clark over George Fox
         
    Whitman over Pacific Lutheran      
   
    Whitworth over Puget Sound      
   
    Pacific over Willamette      

Saturday

    Whitman over Puget Sound      

    Whitworth over Pacific Lutheran      
   
    Lewis & Clark over Linfield      

    Pacific over George Fox

I heard something about the DIII tournament not having 4 team pods this year.  Sounds like they are just having two teams at each site. Not sure how this works.  Any info?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 24, 2013, 06:58:18 PM
Buc, jumping on that L&C bandwagon real quick I see!   ;)

Fox beats LC Saturday.  Not a fan of either of these schools, lesser of two evils I guess.
Whitman.  PLU's implosion has happened early this year.
Whitworth.  UPS is awful this year, WW isn't.
Willamette topples Pacific.  EBK and Dart still combine for 15 total shots, but they still find ways to win.

Whitman. See above.
Whitworth.  Again, see above.
Linfield over L&C, again....Depending if both teams have all their starters/bigs. 
Fox.  Not a Pacific believer.  I hate picking Fox and try not to whenever possible.

As for the tournament question, I doubt the NCAA will change much.  Look for WW to get hosed YET AGAIN.   >:(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 24, 2013, 07:17:09 PM
From PC in the national tourney board:

"First round: Saturday, March 2nd at host institutions
Second round: Saturday, March 9th at host institutions
Third round: Saturday, March 16th at host institutions
Quarterfinals: Friday, March 22 at Salem
Semifinals: Saturday, March 23 at Salem
National championship: Sunday, April 7 (two weeks later) in Atlanta

The selection date doesn't change.  There won't be any four team pods the first weekend of the tournament.  Eight teams will go to Salem instead of four."


So...Whitworth can't get hosed. With cost not being an issue, it looks like the highest seed will host (assuming there are no issues with the facility). As long as Whitworth wins out, there is no way they could play a higher ranked foe until the elite 8.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 24, 2013, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 24, 2013, 07:17:09 PM
So...Whitworth can't get hosed. With cost not being an issue, it looks like the highest seed will host (assuming there are no issues with the facility). As long as Whitworth wins out, there is no way they could play a higher ranked foe until the elite 8.

They will find a way!! :-X
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 25, 2013, 02:15:49 AM
I like this playoff system.  In addition to letting the higher seeds play at home, they avoid the problem of having the host team lose the first night and then no one showing up for the second night.

As long as a team ends up ranked 8th or higher they shouldn't face a higher ranked team until Salem. This gives a team like WW the inside track. 

Playball, I'm betting Whitman will be 2nd and LC and Pacific will be 3rd and 4th this year.    Willamette looked bad against WW and Fox seem inconsistent.  This weekend will answer a lot of questions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 25, 2013, 10:46:52 AM
UPS and PLU win both this weekend!!!!! They both are due to shock the WORLD of D3 hoops lol.
Wil gets Pac
LC gets Fox

Fox over Pac
Linfield gets LC

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 25, 2013, 12:21:09 PM
Gotta go with Buc down the line with his predictions.  The only one I debated over is LC over Fox.  LC never plays well there, and Fox is coming off a tough loss.

Playball and Keandre:

Letting your emotions for other teams and allegiance to your teams is not the best way to make picks!  Makes upsets more fun, but makes Buc look smarter than he is. LOL
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 25, 2013, 04:42:10 PM
Keandre will look like a savant if UPS or PLU manage to win even one game between the two of em. I don't know what exactly is wrong with UPS, but there is definitely something off about that team...

picks
Fox over LC: Fox is athletic enough on the perimeter to slow down the Pios. The difference will be Atkins. Kid plays bigger than he is (only 6'4), tough to guard around the rim, especially when you don't have any bigs to slow him down. Fox is really playing above their talent level so far in conference play. I expect them to bounce back from the Pacific game.
Whitman beats PLU: PLU doesn't turn the ball over, but they also haven't played well enough to make me think they can beat Whitman, even at home.
Whitworth beats UPS: Every time I look at this matchup I get a little nervous. I see UPS and I think of a very talented basketball team. However, that's not this year's loggers. At all. Whitworth would have to play a terrible game to not win this...but anything is possible I guess.
Pacific over Willamette: Willamette looked terrible in eastern WA (plenty of teams do) and then escaped against Linfield. Let me repeat, Linfield, at home. Nobody has been consistent outside of Whitworth this year, so this is a guess, but I don't have a lot of faith in the Bearcats winning a meaningful game.

Whitman gets its turn to beat UPS
Whitworth over PLU: PLU played them tough in Spokane, but Whitworth's bigs are playing much better basketball this time around.
LC beats Linfield: This is a great matchup for Batiuk and no one else for the Wildcats. LC is more talented in 4 out of the 5 positions on the court.
Pacific knocks of Fox: again. With LC and Fox splitting and Pacific winning both this weekend we have 3 teams fighting for 3rd and 4th with Willamette on the outside looking in. Basically I'm picking Pacific because nobody in the NWC wants to lock up a playoff spot so it only makes sense that Fox loses here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 25, 2013, 06:09:09 PM
Playball and Keandre:

Letting your emotions for other teams and allegiance to your teams is not the best way to make picks!  Makes upsets more fun, but makes Buc look smarter than he is. LOL
[/quote]

TMT, I have to find a way to get some good mojo in Tacoma!!!!! Whether that makes Buc look smarter, I am willing to do it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 25, 2013, 06:13:09 PM
(509)RAT

So if PLU wins a half and UPS wins a half, does that count as a game between them? I sure hope so because I feel they both can get a half in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 25, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
I'm sure the league can make some sort of participation award for the Tacoma schools. Maybe give each of them an honorary win at the end of the season that they can share if they can take a half from Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 26, 2013, 01:48:34 AM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 25, 2013, 12:21:09 PM
Playball and Keandre:

Letting your emotions for other teams and allegiance to your teams is not the best way to make picks!  Makes upsets more fun, but makes Buc look smarter than he is. LOL


Dont worry Playball and Keanre, I vote my emotions also.  I'm just lucky to be a Pirate fan. When it comes to NWC basketball you're happy 90% of the time if you root for the good guys from Spokane. You gotta admit, the Pirates are such all around good guys you just can't help loving them even if they aren't your team. ;D

Weird night.  WW did not handle UPS like I thought they should have.  That said, they played good fundamental defense and won the game when they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

LC lucked one out and Pacific got a little luck too.  Bridgeland must be stroking out right now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 26, 2013, 07:26:20 AM
Quote from: Keandre on January 25, 2013, 06:09:09 PM
Playball and Keandre:

Letting your emotions for other teams and allegiance to your teams is not the best way to make picks!  Makes upsets more fun, but makes Buc look smarter than he is. LOL

TMT, I have to find a way to get some good mojo in Tacoma!!!!! Whether that makes Buc look smarter, I am willing to do it.
[/quote]

Well, you must have a very good system on how to predict games, because the conference this year is very unpredictable!  I'm shocked that Whitman lost last night. 

Keandre, I like your thinking about PLU and UPS adding up their scores in order to be competitive.  Maybe if they will add up wins... :-X   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 26, 2013, 11:44:04 AM
2 OT games, PLU wins, UPS hangs with Whitworth for 39 minutes...I need to stop picking games. They make me look and feel dumber and dumber every week.

Fox is all of a sudden on the edge of the playoff picture. Tied with Whitman for 4th. But, if it's any consolation to the Bruins, they aren't the only ones who have to make the Eastern Washington trip. LC and Pac will join them. Willamette really needed that win last night against the Boxers. With as inconsistent as they've played this year, they're too far out of it at this point to sneak into the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 26, 2013, 11:48:53 PM
Whitworth escapes Tacoma with 2 wins. Beat PLU tonight 71-68 (if I remember correctly). It was the second night in a row where Whitworth couldn't stop an opposing player from getting points in bunches. Schilling had 25. I didn't feel like Whitworth played a great game, but have no way of knowing how they stacked up in the box score since PLU doesn't know what live stats or a box score is. They also don't have a write-up on their site yet. Guess I'm getting spoiled by the Pirates SID...at least the rest of the conference caught up with live video awhile back so I can still watch road games...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 27, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
Even when PLU and UPS are not playoff teams, coming out of Tacoma with two wins is always a challenge.  They weren't dominant wins, but the league record is still unblemished.

Two teams ahead of Whitworth in the national rankings lost.  Whitworth could go up to #2.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 27, 2013, 02:11:18 PM
Rochester will be 1 as long as they win tonight. UST should only drop to #2 with Midd losing. Whitworth will most likely only move up to #3.

It will be interesting to see what the d3hoops gang does with Midd, Williams, and Amherst. Amherst is a top the conference but they and Williams have 2 losses. Amherst won head to head though. Midd only has 1 loss, but has played a terrible schedule and lost to Williams this weekend. I'd put them behind WPI and then rank them Amherst, Williams, Midd. And I'd probably put them all behind UWSP. NCC is going to fall quite a few spots and I'd expect IWU to jump up 6-7 spots from #16. NCC SHOULD drop below IWU now that they have the same number of losses and a head to head loss to the Titans. But you typically don't see changes that large in top 25 polls...so who knows.

I'd probably jump an undefeated WPI over Whitworth too, if they make it through their conference unscathed. But that's a long ways down the road.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 28, 2013, 01:20:44 PM
PLU beat Whitman and Puget Sound won the first half against Whitworth, that is all that was good that happened in Tacoma. Puget Sound has a few young kids and new players that are getting some valuable lessons in the NWC, they still have a chance to spoil some teams playoff hopes by going 6-0 their last 6 games! They wil lbeat PLU and Wil this week, and go 4-0 against LC, Pacific, Linfield and Fox at home. They will finish on a strong note! Who agrees with me lol?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 28, 2013, 05:11:57 PM
Playball:
Been waiting for the accolades from you raining down on Hollins and LC, especially after what they did to your Wildcats!  You have to give Hollins credit (even if you don't want to) for their turnaround, especially with no bigs.  Starting 0-2 and 1-3 and now winning 6 in a row to be all alone in 2nd place, well, what do you have to say about that? :)  Must be painful!


I keep thinking someone is going to get Worth, but they just keep on rolling.  I thought PacU might be ready for a run, then they lose to Fox at home.  But Fox is pretty good this year, surprisingly.  Willamette is hanging in there, but I don't see them making the top 4.

So, it looks like LC, Whtmn, GF and PacU fighting for the last 3 spots in the tourny.  Nice to see the OR teams up in the standings and thinking playoffs this year!   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 28, 2013, 08:14:13 PM
Quote from: playball on January 18, 2013, 03:46:56 AM
Also, forgot to give credit where credit is due.  Great game by Hollins last week.  Scored 36 and it looked efficient on the box score.

And you mean by LC beating a Batuik-less Linfield and Hollins going for 7 and 5 on 2-8 shooting?  I am surprised about this little run LC has put together, but the Linfield game is not one that exemplifies a teams dominance or upswing at this point.  Batuik is as everyone knows the main cog in that offense even without him shooting.  LC was o-k at best, and Linfield was just plain bad.

Hollins overall has shot 40.5% fg and 28.1% from the 3 point line.   

LC is playing some good basketball but will go 0-2 this weekend on the eastern swing which will put them at 7-5.  There is a lot of parity in the league this year and its still up in the air who makes playoffs.  If/when LC does that, then I will give them the credit the earned.  I still hold on to that those #'s need to go up for Hollins to be considered very good.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 28, 2013, 11:47:43 PM
I was gone all weekend and didn't realize that Batuik was out.  Is he hurt?  How long will he be out?  That is just not good news for a team already struggling.  I wanted to get it in before they head NE because I agree with you.  They might go 1-1, but more realistically 0-2.

Just messing with you!  I know you give credit when and where you see it.  My point is that they started playing better about the time he came back.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2013, 12:53:17 AM
Ive heard it is just a nagging injury and hopefully will be a short absence.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 29, 2013, 01:28:04 AM
Rat is correct.  WW #3.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 30, 2013, 05:13:34 PM
Guilty pleasure of the week besides the malted toffee coffee ice cream--UPS, Linfield, PLU all together in the cellar.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 31, 2013, 04:25:14 PM
Haters gonna hate ^^   ::)


Predictions for the weekend.

Whitman over Pacific.  Whitman at home in front of their crowd I think gets to Brakenbush.  I hope I'm wrong because I would love for Whitman to be on the outside looking in at the end of the season.
Willamette over Fox at Fox.  Malley is rolling and Dart is due to get touches SOMETIME!! Get the guy the ball!!
Whitworth over L&C.  No bigs for L&C will finally catch up to them. 
Linfield swipes one from PLU.  PLU has been free falling and hopefully a weekend off for Batuik freshens up his legs.

Saturday
Whitman takes down L&C.  Eisenhart does his thing and goes for 20 and 10.
Fox wins one that goes down to the wire over Linfield in a close one.
Willamette takes one against UPS, who is terrible.
Whitworth takes care of Pacific without much fuss.

If my predictions are correct, the standings will look like this: 
Whitworth 12-0
Whitman 8-4
Lewis and Clark 7-5
Fox 7-5
Willamette 6-5
Pacific 5-6
PLU 3-9
Linfield 3-9
UPS 2-10


Will Willamette find a way to sneak in?!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 31, 2013, 05:18:30 PM
It's hatred born of bad losses from my college days. Do you have any idea what it's like to run the triple option against a Linfield football team when you are skinny and slow and their defensive coordinator is your brother and your other brother is watching you for the first time in your college playing career? Not to mention how much it pisses you off when a Frosty Westering coached linebacker is helping you off the turf and he says, "Thank you for playing so hard."  Also bad memories of playing UPS in basketball when they were a top 10 Div II team. Forgive me for enjoying the current standings--it just feels so good.

So far a great week of basketball for my teams.  Stanford over Oregon.  Eastern Washington over Portland State.  Hopefully the Bucs will keep it rolling.

I'm going for Pacific over Whitman over Pacific. I betting (hoping) Pacific has enough talent and composure at the guard spot to handle the pressure.
Fox over Willamette.  Willamette does not look good to me. Maybe it was watching them agains WW, but I don't see them beating Fox.
Whitworth over L&C.   Not only does WW have LC beat down low, their perimeter players will neutralize the guards.
Linfield and PLU--Can't we have both lose?  If I have to pick one to win I'll go with PLU. 

Saturday
Whitman over LC. After WW on Friday and traveling to Walla Walla, LC will run out of gas in the second half.
Fox over Linfield. Linfield is a cellar dweller the year.  Fox going for the playoffs.  Fox won't let this one go.
Willamette beats UPS. 
Whitworth over Pacific.  Not fair playing WW the second night of the Eastern Washington trip.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 31, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
No write ups this time because let's me honest. Outside of the Whitworth games we're all just blindly throwing darts at a board when we pick these games this season. Soooo:

Whitman
Fox
Whitworth
PLU

Whitman
Whitworth
Fox
UPS
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 01, 2013, 03:13:32 PM
I'll take a shot. 

Whitman over PacU (tough road game)
Fox tops Willamette (someday Wil is going to play to the level Playball hopes they will, but not today).
Whitworth gets LC (I think LC will get one of these games, but not this one.  Hoping though).
PLU flushes Linf (I want to go with Linf, but can't)

LC over Whitman
Fox beats Linf
UPS takes care of Willamette
Whitworth kills PacU

Ouch, only predicting 3 OR wins for the weekend.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on February 02, 2013, 01:41:46 PM
A little hometown love for Whitworth.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2013/feb/02/maybe-linda-evans-will-come-game/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 02, 2013, 02:22:45 PM
Whitworth kills LC. Playball nailed it as far as LC struggling with Farnsworth and the rest of the Whitworth bigs. As a team they played much better than last weekend which isn't too surprising considering they were at home and not in Tacoma. Don't see Pac keeping up with the Pirates tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 02, 2013, 02:50:35 PM
LC has to gets some bigs.  Farnsworth and Payne were a combined 14 for 17 last night. 

LC vs Whitman will be an interesting game.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2013, 12:02:53 AM
Really need UPS to hold off Willamette and pull off the "upset". Might be the first week all season where I can say I predicted all 8 games on the weekend...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2013, 01:59:21 AM
Final in Spokane was 98-63

UPS also got it done. Whitman took their first lead of the game with 4 min left after being down by as many as 19 points early in the game, and held on to beat LC. Neither team shot the ball real well. One too many cold stretches for LC where they couldn't get a bucket.

Whitman is again tied for second. They have to play Whitworth on Tuesday in Walla Walla, which I believe them to be fully capable of knocking off Whitworth at home. But if you play favorites, a loss puts them below Fox. However, Eastern WA is the Bruins next trip. It looks like Whitman should finish in 2nd all by themselves. Pac is playing terrible basketball, as is Willamette. So I expect Fox and LC to be the last 2 into the tourney.

The most important thing to come out of this weekend is that I feel like I maybe understand the conference for the first time. Ok, so they were easy games this week...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 03, 2013, 11:26:48 AM
Congrats to Rat on the 8 of 8.  Looking forward to Whitworth vs Whitman. Should be a good game.  Whitman is the only team to beat Whitworth in the last three and half seasons.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Cdalakelady on February 03, 2013, 02:27:31 PM
Does anyone know why Wade Gebbers did not play in the second half?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 03, 2013, 06:42:41 PM
Quote from: Cdalakelady on February 03, 2013, 02:27:31 PM
Does anyone know why Wade Gebbers did not play in the second half?
His wife went into labor. Had a healthy baby girl this morning.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 04, 2013, 11:00:26 AM
UPS playing a lot better, gets PLU at PLU and Wil at Wil. Last 4 at home, they can win out and head into next season with a good feeling after a tough season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Cdalakelady on February 04, 2013, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 03, 2013, 06:42:41 PM
Quote from: Cdalakelady on February 03, 2013, 02:27:31 PM
Does anyone know why Wade Gebbers did not play in the second half?
His wife went into labor. Had a healthy baby girl this morning.

Thanks. That is good news.  So glad he wasn't hurt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 05, 2013, 11:32:48 PM
Would be nice if Whitman had more than a couple hundred people show up for this "rivalry" game...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 06, 2013, 10:52:08 AM
The Pirates shot themselves in the foot last night and Whitman remains the thorn in Whitworth''s side.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 06, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
Hate that this happened against Willamette, but glad I was there to see it nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6DkEddIPts

:o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 06, 2013, 04:30:59 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 06, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
Hate that this happened against Willamette, but glad I was there to see it nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6DkEddIPts

:o

OUCH!! What a play!!

What did the WW kid do to get the T at the end of regulation?!?  Unwhitworth like to do something like that.  Was Greg Adrian one of the officials?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2013, 07:52:52 PM
Farnsworth slammed the ball down after his 5th foul. Castle said the T was warranted, but most of the other 20 fouls in the second half and OT were not, supposedly.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2013, 10:31:19 PM
Whitworth is at #2 in the first regional rankings. Behind St. Thomas and in front of the WIAC (SP, WW, Stout).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 06, 2013, 10:36:21 PM
Great article:
http://seattletimes.com/html/take2/2020288050_taketwo04.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 07, 2013, 02:37:45 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 06, 2013, 07:52:52 PM
Farnsworth slammed the ball down after his 5th foul. Castle said the T was warranted, but most of the other 20 fouls in the second half and OT were not, supposedly.

Valle got taken down with no foul called late in the game, and then they went down and called an under the back on Farnsworth going for a rebound. You read that right. He had inside position for a rebound and then got called for under the back I guess. Not sure what else it could have been. Just a crazy, crazy call. That was Farnsworth's fourth foul and I think that really frustrated him. He argued into the timeout. Playball, you've never been called for under the back right?!?! Not to harp on that one call, but that one to me was the most egregious in a series of terrible calls. Anyway, Farnsworth got called for a fifth (tough to tell on the video from afar if it was a good or bad call) but he slammed the ball and it went halfway to the ceiling. The Farnsworth T was the best call they made all night. He absolutely deserved it. The other fouls? Not so much.

But it wasn't just fouls they missed, they missed a lot of kicks, travels, etc. I mean, you don't get calls on the road, but this was ridiculous. I know, I know, Whitworth has nothing to complain about, etc. Whatever. Last time the Missionaries ruined our perfect regular season we got to the Elite 8. I'd gladly take a return trip to the E8 or further. Hopefully the Bucs can still host a couple rounds.

About the Seattle Times article, you'd never know it was a rivalry game looking at the Missionary crowd last night. Personally I always thought of UPS and Linfield more as rivals because they were good at sports when I was at WW, but I guess times have changed. Bridgeland has certainly brought a new attitude (and I mean that in every sense of the word) to the Missionaries. Plus with all the money they're starting to pour into athletics, the teams down in Walla Walla are starting to get much better. I think they just ended Whitworth's 100+ dual match win streak a few weeks ago in men's swimming.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 08, 2013, 10:31:55 AM
Boxing out too aggressively maybe?  It would either be that or maybe undercutting?  I have no idea what happened since I wasn't there (obviously) but these are the only explanations I can come up with for that call.  With as BS as the officials sounded from here on the boards, I'm happy that Whitworth feels the pinch of being homered!   Up by 4 with <1minute left and he picks up a shooting foul for a fifth AND a technical?  It doesn't matter how bad the refs were at that point, WW were in a position to win.  No real excuse for that kind of sabotage! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 08, 2013, 04:12:15 PM
I would think he'd have to have undercut the Whitman player after he left his feet...? But I couldn't see whatever it was the ref did. Whitworth definitely got homered, but they still should have won. Hopefully it stings, and a few guys learn to take care of the ball and not go full retard in the last minute of the game. There is a reason Whitman has lost 4 games in this conference. They aren't nearly as scary as last year's team. I don't like to think about what that says about this year's Whitworth team...

Wade went off, which was one of the lone bright spots. He hit big shots from outside at the end of the game. His second half was probably some of the best basketball he's played this year (from games I've been able to watch).

Depending on what happens in the WIAC, it will be interesting to see what happens to Whitworth's regional ranking. Do you put a 4 loss WIAC team ahead of a 2 loss Whitworth team that lost recently and plays an inferior schedule? I don't think so, and the nice thing is that it doesn't really matter as they'll still be the high seed for a couple rounds.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 08, 2013, 05:16:04 PM
Here are my picks,
All the washington teams win and Linfield gets Pacific at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 08, 2013, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: playball on February 08, 2013, 10:31:55 AM
I'm happy that Whitworth feels the pinch of being homered!     

Don't worry, Whitworth plays plenty of games in the Willamette Valley.  They have more than felt the pinch of being homered. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 09, 2013, 01:20:37 AM
Willamette gets hammered by PLU at home, despite the best efforts of a vintage Cone crowd to find something - anything - to get excited about.  Really, hats off to the students: they were yelling and cheering like it was a close game even when the Bearcats were down 20.  On the court though, WU got outplayed, outhustled, and outcoached.  Badly.

This season has gone from vaguely promising to extremely ugly very quickly.  The gut-punch loss to Pacific a couple of weeks ago looks like a turning point in the season, and it's been followed by four straight losses (three of which were never even close).  Yuck.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 09, 2013, 10:30:40 AM
UPS beat LC
Whitman beat Fox
Pacific beat Linfield

3. Fox  (8-5)
4. LC  (7-6)
5. Pacific   (7-6)
6. PLU  (6-8)

Fox still has to play Whitworth. Which means UPS is going to have the opportunity to ruin somebody's season. UPS is playing good basketball. They can beat Fox and Pacific, and they get em both the last weekend of the season. Fox could be fighting for a playoff spot...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2013, 08:39:22 PM
I guess the loss at Whitman didn't wake the Pirates up. They need to know they are not the type of team that can cruise. They got to where they are by playing hard.  H Hopefully they wake up enough not to drop two in the Willamette Valley next week.   

Looks like George Fox has the inside track for the #3 slot and the Pacific v LC game will pretty much decide #4.  Should be a great conference tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 14, 2013, 11:52:33 AM
Hopefully someone tells them that these losses are costing them potential tournament home games. Whitworth down to 4th in the West. If they win out they should jump to #3 since one of the WIAC teams has to lose...

Last week were the type of results I expected this year from Whitworth, but I always had assumed it would be a talent issue. However, those two losses weren't about talent. Whitworth is still better than everyone else in the conference. They lost because they were lazy and made stupid plays. The perimeter D didn't exist. They had too many unforced TO's. Oh, and that technical foul.

Hopefully Whitworth learned that they aren't quite as good as they thought they were. Play like that in the tourney and you will...(gulp)...lose to a SCIAC team...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 14, 2013, 06:20:09 PM
Wester didn'y play against LC. The pioneers got a lucky break. Pacific is better than them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 15, 2013, 04:15:18 PM
I got the Washington teams winning this weekend! Sorry Oregon.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2013, 06:00:03 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 15, 2013, 04:15:18 PM
I got the Washington teams winning this weekend! Sorry Oregon.

Wow, way to go out of your comfort zone for those picks Keandre!   :o    ;D

I have Pacific of UPS, regardless of Wester playing or not.  UPS got smacked by a Batuik-less Linfield. Enough said.
Whitworth over a Batuik-less Linfield.  Whitworth is a tad better than UPS and will be motivated by those 2 loses.
Fox beats PLU.
Whitman loses to Willamette.  Malley will be jacking shots up left and right!  Might get 40 pts!

Saturday
Whitworth over Willamette.
Whitman over a Batuik-less Linfield. 
Fox wins at UPS. 
LC beats PLU


All Conference teams??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 16, 2013, 12:10:46 PM
Rat,

I need some help here.  If LC and GF both win tonight, they will be the #3 and #4 teams and go to the conference playoffs.  Who will be #3 and #4?  Is there any scenario that Pacific sneaks into the playoffs?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2013, 03:33:31 PM
Rat:

I believe the tie-breaker format is:
     Head to head (they split)
     Finishes against the top teams down (Fox got WW once, LC did not).  So Fox would be 3 and LC 4.

There could be a tie for 3rd if both LC and Fox lose (I can't see that happening but it is the NWC), but since LC swept PacU, PacU would be eliminated and the lineup would be the same as above.

Playball:

Why all the love for Will?  They hate Linfield!  It is one thing "to go out of your comfort zone".  It is another to sign up for a p-test for picking Will over Whitm (Malley was a few short of 40)!


Sorry the OR teams lost a couple of big players down the stretch (Wester and Batuik), but it probably only made a minor difference with LC and PacU.  LC just seems to have their number. 

Fox at 3rd could create an OR team in the final, but it will probably be all-WA.  And I believe Whitm is the only team with a chance to beat WW in Spokane.

Tonight the home teams all lose.  That means I agree with Playball as he calms down with his picks! :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2013, 09:51:38 PM
Break the Whitman gimmicky press and easy points!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2013, 01:34:06 AM
Conference tourney is set. TryMeTeam was exactly right, Fox beat WW and therefore gets #3

#4 LC  @  #1 Whitworth
#3 Fox  @  #2 Whitman
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 17, 2013, 06:23:19 PM
Good first game for Whitworth.   They match up well with LC.  Needless to say, GF and Whitman have shown that they are capable of beating the Bucs.  Hopefully WW can get through the conference tournament and get a high seed for the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2013, 01:11:09 PM
They dont really have seeds in the tourney. The far West is on an island, so it seems like the NWC plays someone from the SCIAC. If Whitworth was good enough, they might have received one of two byes, but that also could be due to location. With no pods this year and only one game a weekend, it'll be interesting where teams go each weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 18, 2013, 01:35:02 PM
There might not be true "seeding" but the tournament committee has been pretty good about making sure the better, higher ranked, more deserving, etc. team has hosted when geographically and therefore financially feasible. ie 4 team pod at UPS when the Loggers and Pirates both made the tourney. Whitworth's back to back round 1 bye's to assure a second round home game. The times where Whitworth got screwed (Texas las year and Wooster two years ago...Wash U and Hope pods from years past were justifiable IMO) it was only because the NCAA couldn't (wouldn't) shell out the money to fly 3 teams to Spokane when they could bus 2 and fly 1. It sucked but was understandable/expected.

With the new format there is absolutely ZERO reason that Whitworth shouldn't host through the 2nd round. Flying Whitworth to Texas or Minnesota or Iowa or....is no different that flying those same teams to Spokane. So the higher "ranked" team should ALWAYS host (barring a facilities issue). Unless of course they get thrown into the same 1/16th of the bracket as STU or UWSP...which would require the NCAA purposefully putting the Pirates into games that they have a better chance of losing for the sole purpose of getting rid of the west coast team as soon as possible. I've seen the NCAA do some pretty terrible things but that would be a new low.

Depending on wether Whitworth wins the conference tourney and who makes it from the South, I bet SCIAC champ comes to Spokane in round 1, Texas or upper Midwest visits round 2, and then round 3 is entirely dependent on where ST, SP, and the CCIW teams show up in the bracket
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 19, 2013, 02:33:11 AM
I suppose I cannot say for sure because I have not seen the other teams in the Top 25 play, but in comparison with the past teams I can say that after seeing Whitworth play this weekend that they are probably ranked too high.  The guard and post play for them is not nearly as strong as it has been the past couple of years.  They have good players on team, but nothing like a Friedt, Montgomery, Beal, Riley, etc. Will be interesting to see who they get in their region of the bracket because I don't see them going very far without some favorable match-ups.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2013, 02:01:41 PM
I've always thought that they were ranked a little high...but they kept winning. And outside of the Fox loss, there hasn't been any difference in the type of results they are getting in and out of conference.

This team doesn't have the 1-2 all american type guys that they've had in years past, but they are a LOT deeper in terms of guys who can make meaningful offensive contributions. They don't have the dead-eye 3pt shooter either, but they have a much more athletic backcourt. Farnsworth is no Freidt or Montgomery (yet), but he's continued to imrove, just like the other 2 did. He's good enough to handle NWC competition, but could struggle come tournament time.

They've already beaten UMHB (21-4), Redlands (likely SCIAC champ), Chapman. They would be a favorite over any ASC, SCAC, SCIAC, MAC, or IIAC team. And not to mention, until they got a St. Thomas or UWSP, they're gonna get to play at home...so I don't know if they'll get anything but a favorable matchup until the sweet sixteen/elite 8
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 19, 2013, 02:48:19 PM
I agree with Rat. The bottom line is this team played a relatively tough non-league schedule and won.  Other than the slip-ups against Fox and Whitman, they won in league.  They haven't been crushing teams and they might not look as good as past teams, but they have a record that puts them in the same group of any of the past Whitworth teams.  You have to give these guys credit for what they have accomplished so far and hopefully they will get to Salem. The new format gives them a much better shot than previous years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 19, 2013, 03:52:10 PM
I agree with Cat.  This team to me, does not seem as polished.  Yes they have beaten some good squads earlier in the season but that was a while ago and won't be the same type atmosphere.  No one on this roster really sticks out to me, which could be a good thing since this team can get contributions from a lot of different angles. 

Buc, to put this team in the same sentence as the Beal-Montgomery team or even the Willemson-Nakamura-Symes is pushing the envelope.  This years WW team won a conference that seems to me to be down this year in terms of overall team talent. 

All Conference Teams?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 19, 2013, 05:58:32 PM
Playball, you are too young to start saying, "Back in my day we were so much better..."   :)

The league does look down a bit watching the level of play.  I don't see truly exceptional Div III level players that could have played up at the D I and II level on a lot of teams like there were a few years ago, but that is very subjective. Objectively, the league does about what it always does out of conference and if you look at what I think was the most talented WW team in recent times, the one that went to the Elite Eight, their point guard was Wade Gebbers. He is not head and shoulders above the rest of the players on this team despite being 2 years older (granted a little bang up) so it's hard to say that this team could not have competed with that team from 2 years ago. These guys have to play in the era they are playing in and they are representing our school well and I give them full credit for what they have accomplished. Their ultimate legacy will be decided by how they do in the conference and NCAA tournaments and not by us old guys comparing them to the teams of yesterday.

No clue on all-conference. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 20, 2013, 03:14:38 PM
Yeah , well, congratulations to everybody that finished better than 4-20.
Our situation is only solved by Harakiri.
LINFIELD has a situation where all coaches are teachers and teachers get tenure and cannot be shown the exit door - no matter how they embarrass the institution that gave them and gave them and gave them.  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 20, 2013, 04:28:50 PM
D O.C.
Are they tenured as teachers and coaches, or just as teachers?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2013, 05:21:35 PM
Doty can't actually be tenured....  ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2013, 05:31:58 PM
I believe this is tenured as a prof, yes. Without the coaching position, there wouldn't be much of a full-time position, though, so it is essentially tenured as a coach.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 20, 2013, 06:21:21 PM
All-Conference teams have been released: http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/releases/MBB_All_NWC_2013

I actually made up my own before I saw the release and, while I got quite a few right, I missed POY.

My thoughts:
-Not surprised about Sundquist. I think Logie was going to win it until Fox beat WW in Spokane. Then it was Sundquist.
-I think Eisenhardt was the default POY. I don't think he should have gotten it, but I there's nobody who really stood out.
-I thought Gebbers might get POY as sort of a "lifetime achievement" award rather than what he did this year, tho he did make some of WW's most crucial buckets (long 3 @ Fox, almost single-handedly beat WM in Walla Walla).
-If Batiuk plays all season he probably gets POY because he is the best player in the league.
-How did Malley only get HM?!? I had him first team. Granted I basically only watched WW games this season, but he lit us up. He had 30-something last week against us.
-Other than that I was fairly close. I think I had all the players, just had them one level up or down from where they were voted.

Anyone else have thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2013, 07:25:45 PM
I didn't make an all conference team. Thought about it in my head, then realized I had no idea who would go where. Plus I make all conference teams like I would make a basketball team. 5 first teamers, with each position (as best you can) getting a spot. So Farnsworth would have at least a second team nod (if not a first team) because he was the best post player in the conference. I would have had Malley 1 team higher and probably would have bumped Wester down a team (to make only 5 first team guys)...

I think Sundquist was a fine COY selection. I have no problem with rewarding the coach that beats expectations....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2013, 11:35:17 PM
Not enough love for Whitworth.  I guess after two guys make the first team, voters aren't going to put too many more players from one team on the all star teams. That said, if you were drafting freshmen, would you really take Brakebush over Valle?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2013, 08:56:38 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2013, 11:35:17 PM
Not enough love for Whitworth.  I guess after two guys make the first team, voters aren't going to put too many more players from one team on the all star teams. That said, if you were drafting freshmen, would you really take Brakebush over Valle?

Not enough love?  They had 4 spots
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on February 21, 2013, 05:59:39 PM
I disagree with the thought that Larry Doty has embarassed Linfield College.  I have been around since Larry returned to the College as Men's Basketball Coach.  He has never done anything to embarass Linfield College, unlike the current AD who embarasses the College everytime he opens his mouth.   I have been fortunate to talk with many students of Larry Doty, and they all have a lot of respect for him as a professor and a teacher.  If I had a child that had athletic ability I would want him to play for Coach Doty.  He does things the right way.
The past years have been tough in terms of wins, but Coach has not gotten much support from the Linfield Administration.  It is well known that all sports at Linfield except Football, Baseball and Softball (mainly because the Softball coach is an Assistant Football Coach) are underfunded. Give him the money that Whitman has put into its program and Larry will win. Larry should be in the Linfield Athletic Hall of Fame, but one vindictive old man has veto power.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2013, 07:59:44 PM
Quote from: catmac567 on February 21, 2013, 05:59:39 PM
I disagree with the thought that Larry Doty has embarassed Linfield College.  I have been around since Larry returned to the College as Men's Basketball Coach.  He has never done anything to embarass Linfield College, unlike the current AD who embarasses the College everytime he opens his mouth.   I have been fortunate to talk with many students of Larry Doty, and they all have a lot of respect for him as a professor and a teacher.  If I had a child that had athletic ability I would want him to play for Coach Doty.  He does things the right way.
The past years have been tough in terms of wins, but Coach has not gotten much support from the Linfield Administration.  It is well known that all sports at Linfield except Football, Baseball and Softball (mainly because the Softball coach is an Assistant Football Coach) are underfunded. Give him the money that Whitman has put into its program and Larry will win. Larry should be in the Linfield Athletic Hall of Fame, but one vindictive old man has veto power.

Very well said and welcome to the boards! The Athletic department needs to be revamped as a whole with how it operates and generates money.  Conflicts of interests are everywhere in the department and when a football alumni group can strong arm their will on current issues there is a problem.  Also, if anyone needs proof that Dotes has gotten the short end of the stick, look at him as an athlete at Linfield.  Should be in the HOF already as a player but with who is around that will never happen.


As for the Farnsworth being first team possibly, was he a better post player than Eisenhardt and Batuik?  Even with Batuik missing a bunch of games I think he should've been higher.  Overall stats and that he lead the conference in scoring and rebounding.  When was the last time that happened?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 21, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
The only thing those two did that was better than Farnsworth was total points. Congrats to Batiuk for scoring a lot of points by taking almost twice as many shots as Farnsworth and 1.5 times more shots than Eisenhardt.

FG%, TO's forced, total rebounds, all belong to Farnsworth. So yeah, I think I could easily justify putting him ahead of one or both of the other guys.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2013, 12:11:41 AM
Whitworth beats LC 74-69. They will play the winner of Whitman v GF Saturday night in Spokane.

currently:

Whitman      62        13;30 left in the game
George Fox   59
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 22, 2013, 01:37:47 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 21, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
The only thing those two did that was better than Farnsworth was total points. Congrats to Batiuk for scoring a lot of points by taking almost twice as many shots as Farnsworth and 1.5 times more shots than Eisenhardt.

FG%, TO's forced, total rebounds, all belong to Farnsworth. So yeah, I think I could easily justify putting him ahead of one or both of the other guys.

Blah, at Linfield Farnsworth had trouble scoring over their 6'9 freshman who is still very much a work in progress.  Farnsworth was throwing up all kinds of garbage against a defender who stood still with his arms straight in the air.  I came away not impressed and wondering how he averaged double figure points.  Farnsworth is a backup post if he plays with Batiuk or Eisenhardt. Where the hell are you getting your stats?! Both Batiuk and Eisenhardt average more rebounds. TO's forced? Where did you find that stat? He has them in field goal percentage although both of them can shoot from long range with Batiuk being one of the best 3pt shooters in the conference. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 22, 2013, 01:42:18 AM
Quote from: catmac567 on February 21, 2013, 05:59:39 PM
Larry should be in the Linfield Athletic Hall of Fame, but one vindictive old man has veto power.

"He who must not be named" is Ad Rutschman former AD at Linfield College. Pulls strings in the background, hate Coach Doty.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2013, 03:13:33 AM
Every year these all conference teams come out and the top teams get a few extra players on them compared to lower teams, but it makes no sense.  Why not give the top teams all the positions they deserve?  How does Brakebush get named HM over Valle when when Brakebush averaged 13.4 ppg on 41% shooting and 3.7 rebounds a game and Valle averaged 12.5 ppg on 52% shooting and 3.9 rebounds a game.  So much more efficient scoring and more rebounds.  Not to mention 14-2 vs 9-7 and Valle is still playing.  What is really irritating is that WW's 6th man gets named, but not their two year starter at the 3 spot because the starter is more defense oriented.  I find all conference teams completely unsatisfying.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2013, 07:37:42 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2013, 03:13:33 AM
Every year these all conference teams come out and the top teams get a few extra players on them compared to lower teams, but it makes no sense.  Why not give the top teams all the positions they deserve?  How does Brakebush get named HM over Valle when when Brakebush averaged 13.4 ppg on 41% shooting and 3.7 rebounds a game and Valle averaged 12.5 ppg on 52% shooting and 3.9 rebounds a game.  So much more efficient scoring and more rebounds.  Not to mention 14-2 vs 9-7 and Valle is still playing.  What is really irritating is that WW's 6th man gets named, but not their two year starter at the 3 spot because the starter is more defense oriented.  I find all conference teams completely unsatisfying.   

A tad nit picky arguing about HM spots and the fact that the whole WW team isn't represented.  However, I do agree with how these All Conference teams are a big question mark.  But then again, they don't mean much in the end.  Like you said, 14-2 vs.9-7, I doubt Valle holds too much of a grudge since he is still playing.  I would go with Brakebush since he did more with less around him. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: formercat on February 22, 2013, 01:37:47 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 21, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
The only thing those two did that was better than Farnsworth was total points. Congrats to Batiuk for scoring a lot of points by taking almost twice as many shots as Farnsworth and 1.5 times more shots than Eisenhardt.

FG%, TO's forced, total rebounds, all belong to Farnsworth. So yeah, I think I could easily justify putting him ahead of one or both of the other guys.

Blah, at Linfield Farnsworth had trouble scoring over their 6'9 freshman who is still very much a work in progress.  Farnsworth was throwing up all kinds of garbage against a defender who stood still with his arms straight in the air.  I came away not impressed and wondering how he averaged double figure points.  Farnsworth is a backup post if he plays with Batiuk or Eisenhardt. Where the hell are you getting your stats?! Both Batiuk and Eisenhardt average more rebounds. TO's forced? Where did you find that stat? He has them in field goal percentage although both of them can shoot from long range with Batiuk being one of the best 3pt shooters in the conference.

If one game made up a season, Batiuk would have been POY (since missing 7 wouldnt matter). I have a feeling your fellow alumnus would disagree with your "one game of Linfield v Whiworth tells me everything I need to know about a player" hypothesis  :o

nwcsports.com - Used conference stats for the most part since playing Pacifica and Bethesda isn't quite like playing Redlands and Chapman. Although I did miss Batiuk's rebounds per game which was higher than Farnsworth.

Blocks and steals

Once Batiuk got to conference play he shot 30% from 3...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on February 22, 2013, 12:51:43 PM
Have a question for the Doty supporters and I don't want this to come off as snarky but I'm sure it will.  I've been following the NWC from afar the last few years as my nephew was being recruited, his teammates/opponents that ended up in the NWC, and as a CLU alum with the football battles we've had with Linfield.  Truth be told, it's a question that you can throw at a lot of coaches around the country (CLU's included). 

How much money does he need to have a successful program? 

I'm strictly talking about success on the floor, not in the classroom etc. to make it simple.  There may be more to it than just money but that was the defense that was thrown out there when somebody questioned his abilities.  From my perspective there are teams/coaches that have a legitimate argument when it comes to money, admissions/financial aid, etc. so it's not that I don't agree that can be an issue for some.  However, I'm having a hard time understanding why Linfield would be one of those places. 

You have the best football team on the West Coast so the name recognition for athletics has to be the best of any D3 school in the NW.  Your acceptance rate is 76% so basically if a kid is breathing they are getting into the school.  Academically you aren't at the top of the conference but you're doing well in the middle.  Cost wise the school is on the lower end of the conference and comparable to the top hoops team in the conference in Whitworth.  In terms of a recruiting base, you've got Portland and Seattle that are a relatively short drive away with millions of people and thousands of kids to recruit from.  This is D3 hoops, nobody is flying kids in for visits and coaches aren't travelling around the country on plane rides recruiting.  I feel like I'm missing something because I'm just not seeing why this program can't be better than it has been the past 10 years.  Like I said, this isn't just about Linfield either.  As a CLU alum, I've been asking the same question of our program for many years.  We have just about the best facilities of any D3 school on the West coast now, a huge recruiting pool sitting outside of LA, and we've done nothing to take advantage of that when it comes to basketball. 

How much money does Doty need to run a successful program because from an outsiders perspective it seems like he's got everything else lined up in his favor.  When you have a coach that has been around for that long, who has had time to establish a network of contacts with high school and AAU coaches spanning hundreds of miles, and has been able to coach kids through his program that have probably gone on to coach within the area as well, it just seems like a major cop out to claim it's a budget issue and leave it at that. Is there more to it because I feel like I'm missing something.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2013, 02:00:21 PM
When I read your post it didn't come off as snarky at all. 

Increased funding would help Linfield Basketball by giving it the ability to higher a full time assistant coach.  As shown on ESPN.com lately with the recruitment of high profile football players, relationships with assistant coaches can and fairly often will outweigh the verbal commitments to the school if something happens to that coach.  Players have been known to vacate commitments when the coach who recruited them (generally an assistant) leaves the school.  The need for an assistant is evident in other facets as well.  Being able to lead a practice while the head coach is out recruiting, being able to break down game film, developing certain aspects of the team or player.  Having one assistant coach (sometimes more than one as evident in the NWC) is vital in securing a winning program.

Having gone to Linfield, one of the major draws there was the assistant coach (who was part time at best and still studying) paying attention to me and making me feel wanted by the program. 

You said that Linfield was comparable to WW so here is an example
http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/coaches/index

3 assistant coaches who all have coaching experience at various levels prior to WW, including the top assistant who has experience at the D.1 level at different capacities.

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/roster.php?sport=mbkb#coach

And I post this not as a dig to the abilities of the Linfield coaches:
We have a soccer coach, two students still studying, another former student who coaches the JV program almost exclusively, and a guy who does the filming.  Not a dig, just what it is.

Rat, the point formercat was making is that the only time he was able to see Farnsworth he wasn't all that great.  And as for your other comment, I doubt there is much anything else to go on since Farnsworth hasn't made an impact up there until this year.
Plus he is a 10 and 5 guy, how does that equal first team?

Also, to make this long post even longer I wanted to say congrats on a good career to James Hollins who dealt with a knee reconstruction and still came back to lead his team in to the playoffs.  Impressive

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on February 22, 2013, 03:10:23 PM
That makes sense although a lot of recruiting takes place in the offseason so you shouldn't be dealing with practice time etc. too much.  But if you can only cover one location and not 3 because you don't have the guys to head in different directions you're reducing your net so I can see that being a problem.  In basketball I don't think the assistant has quite as much value as they do in football though just because you are dealing with a much smaller pool of candidates.  The football program is going to be interacting with a dozens of prospects and it's impossible for the head coach to be connecting with each of them on a regular basis.  With hoops though you are dealing with much smaller numbers and there's a bigger expectation by the kids to be interacting with the head coach at the D3 level than at the D1 level. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Whatagame on February 22, 2013, 03:21:23 PM
Interesting conversation.  Not sure if you all have visited this website, but you can search any NWC school by name (or any NCAA D1-D3 school for that matter) and peruse current expense/revenues data for each school's athletics department, here:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

The little glossary tab in upper right will help you more fully understand the data.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2013, 03:27:38 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on February 22, 2013, 03:10:23 PM
That makes sense although a lot of recruiting takes place in the offseason so you shouldn't be dealing with practice time etc. too much.  But if you can only cover one location and not 3 because you don't have the guys to head in different directions you're reducing your net so I can see that being a problem.  In basketball I don't think the assistant has quite as much value as they do in football though just because you are dealing with a much smaller pool of candidates.  The football program is going to be interacting with a dozens of prospects and it's impossible for the head coach to be connecting with each of them on a regular basis.  With hoops though you are dealing with much smaller numbers and there's a bigger expectation by the kids to be interacting with the head coach at the D3 level than at the D1 level.

From my own experience the majority of my recruitment occurred in season.  That is why I could relate to later on how important assistants were during the in season recruitment period.  It is tough to get players in your program when other schools have already made an impact and the first one on the scene generally do better on getting the kid on campus.  However, you are correct that the summer basketball scene is a major recruiting time for most coaches. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 22, 2013, 04:07:11 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 20, 2013, 06:21:21 PM
-How did Malley only get HM?!? I had him first team. Granted I basically only watched WW games this season, but he lit us up. He had 30-something last week against us.

I'd have put him Second Team at the most.  Malley scored a ton of points because he was a volume shooter.  Yes, he could single-handedly take over a game, but he had some absolutely horrific shooting nights too.  That's how you end up averaging 17.3 ppg while shooting 36.8% from the field and 33% from three.

I hate to be the pessimist here, but barring the arrival of some outstanding freshmen or transfers, the Bearcats could be shockingly bad next year.  We lose our top three scorers (Malley, Babcock-Krenk, Dart), and our top three-point shooter (Hughes).  That's four starters gone off a 7-18, 4-10 team that lost eight straight to close the season.  Yuck.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on February 22, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on February 22, 2013, 03:21:23 PM
Interesting conversation.  Not sure if you all have visited this website, but you can search any NWC school by name (or any NCAA D1-D3 school for that matter) and peruse current expense/revenues data for each school's athletics department, here:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

The little glossary tab in upper right will help you more fully understand the data.

Hadn't seen this.  Very cool stuff.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2013, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on February 22, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on February 22, 2013, 03:21:23 PM
Interesting conversation.  Not sure if you all have visited this website, but you can search any NWC school by name (or any NCAA D1-D3 school for that matter) and peruse current expense/revenues data for each school's athletics department, here:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

The little glossary tab in upper right will help you more fully understand the data.

Hadn't seen this.  Very cool stuff.

Yeah!  That is cool!

Also shows that the Eastern Washington schools spend 6k a player where as Linfield and other "valley" schools spend between 1k-2k per
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 23, 2013, 10:06:30 AM
Playball:

If I could give out Karma I would to you.  I know you are not a Hollins (basketball) fan like I am, but to give him a shout out is, to use your word, impressive.  But it was impressive.  Knowing he would miss a good portion of the season and could not play in the playoffs, he still came back from the second knee surgery and played well doing so.  I don't think they make the playoffs without him.  I am glad the coaches recognized him with a return trip to 1st team.  I also think that says volumes about his character.

B Press:

I appreciate your not being only a fan, but a realistic and critical in your assessment of your team.  Karma for you, too.  Oh wait,...  Keandre could learn a thing or two from you. ;)

It is the final most of us thought it would be!  Should be a great game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 23, 2013, 05:41:09 PM
I have to be snarky.  >:(   Injuries, budget, bad bounces, baloney.

History, I know, but one year the gym at LINFIELD namesake found out some players were involved in shenanigans while on a road trip to Alaska. Seven of the ten players were not allowed to play the rest of the season. JV's were brought up, athletes from other Cardinal and Purple sports teams were brought aboard and even some intermural players got to live out their dream.
LINFIELD won the NWC, the regionals and lost their first in Kansas City at the NAIA tourney, again.

The fact that the current basketball coach didn't stick with the Ted Wilson program tells me a good deal.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 23, 2013, 07:55:06 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 23, 2013, 05:41:09 PM
I have to be snarky.  >:(   Injuries, budget, bad bounces, baloney.

History, I know, but one year the gym at LINFIELD namesake found out some players were involved in shenanigans while on a road trip to Alaska. Seven of the ten players were not allowed to play the rest of the season. JV's were brought up, athletes from other Cardinal and Purple sports teams were brought aboard and even some intermural players got to live out their dream.
LINFIELD won the NWC, the regionals and lost their first in Kansas City at the NAIA tourney, again.

The fact that the current basketball coach didn't stick with the Ted Wilson program tells me a good deal.

Different time, different rules on scholarships.  Also, was there a three point line?  Get out the history books for when Ted Wilson went ape on his team and pulled up a bunch of other guys.  My freshmen year we weren't picked to do very well and we over achieved and only missed out on playoffs by a tie breaker. Next year, we lost a good game in which Nate the great went beserk on us up in Spokane.  Junior year, I think you'd remember DOC (if you go to games anymore) we made it to playoffs but another early round exit.  The point I'm making is, not all good teams make playoffs.  Also, if success was built on systems, why isn't everyone coaching the same systems as Wooden and Dean Smith?  The game evolves
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2013, 11:06:23 PM
Whitworth beating up on Whitman. 53-32. Whitman is "0"-fer from 3. I'd expect them to hit a few in the second half and close the gap. Whitworth handling the pressure with relative ease which will have to change drastically for this to end up being a game
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2013, 11:34:14 PM
83-52...it got worse for Whitman before it got better
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2013, 12:33:16 AM
Whitworth wins by a lot
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on February 24, 2013, 01:33:16 AM
Linfield was very competitive this year before the injuries hit,  they lost a number of games right at the end. They played a very good Montana State Northern team (NAIA) to a four point game.  Injuries were a major factor this year.  The Cats did not get many breaks this year.   As to Coach Doty not sticking to Coach Wilson's system.  He has tweaked it, but he still runs the basic fast break system.  I am not buying that criticism.  I think Coach Wilson would have adapted as well. He was a very good coach and too smart not to make adjustments with the times.  This is a different era from when Coach Wilson coached and changes have to be made.  DIII rules are a lot stricter in terms of financial aid than the NAIA rules ever were. You have a right to your thoughts, but I am sorry you do not like Coach Doty.  He is a fine coach and more important, a fine individual.  I have said it before and I will say it again, I would want my children to play for Coach Doty and I feel the same way about Coach Wilson.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2013, 11:16:07 AM
Logie out-coached Bridgeland last night. Whitworth broke the press relatively early and the Missionaries had no answer. Whitworth stuck to the Whitman perimeter players and Whitman couldn't figure out how to get quality shots (inside or out).

Whitworth had 8 turnovers. Haven't looked but I'd guess Whitman opponents avg around 20 per game. It was awesome to see Larkin as the beneficiary to Logie's break. He deserved to have a huge night. Ultimate team player. Gets everyone else involved on offense, makes the shots he does take, gets matched up against an opponent's best SG/F and never gets in foul trouble. Glad he got 22.

I'm guessing Whitworth will get Redlands at home. Hopefully the outcome is similar to their matchup earlier in the season...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 24, 2013, 11:41:53 AM
WW women also going to the tournament. It's a good day to be a Pirate.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 24, 2013, 04:40:11 PM
DEFENSE!

I've said it before and I'll say it once more, I do not like losing.
That 21-6 season was 13 years ago!
I do not like being mediocre - or DEAD LAST.

The reference to Ted Wilson system from me was that Lary Doty QUIT basketball while a student.

My gripe (s),as you know, comes from LD's reaction when I found a perfect athlete for LINFIELD and his remark to me was "We thought he was too good for us."

I'm going to go have a Red Bull at the Dead Horse Cafe and leave these pages for the playoff people. Good luck NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 24, 2013, 05:01:44 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 24, 2013, 04:40:11 PM
DEFENSE!
I'm going to go and leave these pages

Well said. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on February 24, 2013, 05:58:48 PM
 I am not fond of being last, and I want Linfield to be successful.  But not at any cost.
Obviously I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine.
I will always support Larry Doty, and will be very upset if he is forced out.  I do not remember
Larry quitting basketball while a student at Linfield. He is a classmate of mine, so I was there
during his playing days.  Even if he did, that is for him to decide.  No one else knows what
circumstances occur.    There are two young men leaving this years Cat Hoop team to
transfer to Linfield's nursing program to pursue degrees in Nursing.  I applaud them for having
the courage to leave a game they love to pursue even more worthy goals getting a degree where they will be helping people.

Best of luck to the Northwest Conference representatives in both Men and Womens  Basketball,
hope you can bring back a national championship.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 24, 2013, 08:28:43 PM
My two cents, now worth only a penny, which they will stop making soon!

Doty is a great, mediocre coach!  But he hasn't had a good run at the higher level teams in many years, and I don't see that changing.  He has a system, and players be damned, he will run that system regardless.  That was my knock on Gordy James and his flex offense.  I have watched Doty since the "clipboard" days and heard stories of the past, and he just doesn't get his players to play at a higher level.  He wants to play a tough defense, taking charges, in-your-face man-to-man, full court pressure.  How is that working working for him?  His offense is the same as it was 10 years ago, and that will kill your chances in the NWC where everyone knows what everyone else is doing.  He plays too many kids and only recently have the better players played more than half a game.  There was a time before Playball when all-league players got 20-25 minutes or less a game.  What star recruits are going to like that? 

Larry's fans say he is a great guy.  I can't and won't dispute that.  If you say so, it must be true.  Money does talk and programs that have it are prospering.  But maybe he needs to change his system.  If I was as unsuccessful as he has been for as long as he has, I would take a look at what I was doing and see if my players were better suited to something different.  I think that best he has done in the last 10 years is a 4th or 3rd playoff position once or twice? 

I think the rest of the league is hoping Larry never leaves, because if a really good coach came in there, with the athletic popularity of Linfield athletics, especially football and now baseball, they could become a force in basketball too.  Maybe the football people are happy with the basketball team being mediocre.

Just the opinion of an outsider who wants OR teams to beat the crap out of the WA teams, but like the Wildcat basketball fans, hopes each year for that to happen and is let down year after year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 24, 2013, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 24, 2013, 04:40:11 PM
DEFENSE!
The reference to Ted Wilson system from me was that Lary Doty QUIT basketball while a student.

My gripe (s),as you know, comes from LD's reaction when I found a perfect athlete for LINFIELD and his remark to me was "We thought he was too good for us."

Really? Because if you look in the archives of Linfield's sports page you can see that Doty played 25 out of 28 games his senior year, 26 out of 26 games his junior year, and only a couple of games his sophomore and freshman year because as he has said he played JV.  So awesome credible information there on your part.

But you are right, I also recruited a basketball player to Linfield as an alumni/fan. He was already to attend Linfield without ever meeting the coach much like the kid you are talking about, but Doty pulled the same crap and said he was too good for Linfield. And thats the story on how Lebron James ended up not attending Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 24, 2013, 09:30:06 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 24, 2013, 08:28:43 PM
He has a system, and players be damned, he will run that system regardless.  That was my knock on Gordy James and his flex offense. 

Doty has not been running the exact same system, he has slowed the pace down sometimes, not pressed sometimes, some years starters have played 30 or more minutes. So thats not a factual statement. Second, did Hayford not run a system? Did Bridgeland not run a system at UPS and currently at Whitman? Each coach in college generally has a particular system and they predominately recruit kids that can succeed in their system.  Sometimes things might not go as planned and so the coach needs to make adjustments, but to say a college coach should not have a system is rediculous.  How is Jim Boeheim's system working? Mike Krzyzewski has a system, does it work?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 24, 2013, 10:41:06 PM
Love the flex or hate it, Gordie won a national title.  That takes care of the discussion for me.

The problem with Gordie's last few years at Willamette had little to do with his offensive scheme.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: in terms of an entire program, including facilities, players, institutional requirements, and administrative support, nobody did more with less than Gordie.  The season that playball's team got left out of the playoffs on a tiebreak was emblematic of that.  That team had some solid players (McClary, Kunke, Mitchell, and the truly underrated Mike Smith), but it had no business finishing third.

I may not like Linfield, but I have tremendous respect for Larry Doty.  Even though my team is a competitor and rival of his, I hope Linfield gives him the tools he needs to succeed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2013, 11:54:11 PM
My only question is, when will Doty run..."The System"...?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.rtl.fr%2Fonline%2Fimage%2F2012%2F1122%2F7754985430_jack-taylor-138-points-au-compteur.jpg&hash=6fb198f6771482247a54f03ed85fb8cbc9694cd5)


But seriously. Linfield better be nice to Doty and hope he leaves semi-happy. formercat knows exactly what I'm talking about
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 25, 2013, 01:28:17 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 24, 2013, 11:54:11 PM
But seriously. Linfield better be nice to Doty and hope he leaves semi-happy. formercat knows exactly what I'm talking about

Agreed, if it goes down bad some Linfield athletics dirty laundry could be aired!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 25, 2013, 01:42:02 AM
I don't have much to say about what is going on about Linfield basketball.   There are much more qualified people here to break down the X's & O's about the conference and why folks think the program hasn't achieved the success that seems to alluding hoops at Linfield.  However, I did want to chime in on something that comes up from time to time.  The whole "other sports don't get support at Linfield the same way as Linfield football does".

That's true in terms of alumni donations, support, and interest.  I'm not going to insult you by saying otherwise. 

In terms of money the school puts into football compared to other sports?  Again, that's also true.  But what you need to look at is what Linfield football gets financially compared to the other schools in the conference.

Linfield is 2nd to last in total expenses compared to the other schools in the Northwest Conference.  Willamette, Pacific, Whitworth, Puget Sound, and Lewis & Clark all spend more money on football than Linfield.  Yes, Puget Sound and Lewis and Clark spend more money on football than Linfield.  And I believe that 100%.  Have you seen the old frat couches that make up the offensive meeting room under the stadium?  The locker room that hasn't been refurbished in over 30 years?  Jerseys (iron on lettering/numbers) that are faded on a number of jerseys.  Fly to Abilene?  509Rat makes fun of Linfield because Whitworth gets a charter direct to into Abilene while Linfield flies 3 1/2 hours out of the way to DFW and take charter buses to save money.   But I've seen posts on here in the past that makes it seem that Coach Smith is swimming around a vault of gold bullion like Scroog McDuck.  The football program makes the most of what they have and have great alumni support.

Football does get more support than other sports at Linfield but when you take a look at the big picture they don't get money you would think (compared to the other football programs in the NWC) for a program that has 57 consecutive winning seasons, 4 national titles, and has only lost 5 NWC games over the past 12 years. 

If anything if Linfield College needs to dig deeper to supply the entire athletic department with more funds.  What I mean by that is invest more into the assistant coaching, travel, and recruiting budget.   If they did that, then I have no doubt that the other programs at Linfield would capitalize. 

Go 'Cats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 25, 2013, 03:14:16 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 25, 2013, 01:42:02 AM
In terms of money the school puts into football compared to other sports?  Again, that's also true.  But what you need to look at is what Linfield football gets financially compared to the other schools in the conference.

Willamette, Pacific, Whitworth, Puget Sound, and Lewis & Clark all spend more money on football than Linfield.  Yes, Puget Sound and Lewis and Clark spend more money on football than Linfield. 

Not sure where you got your numbers from, but the numbers that I have found from the Department of Education tell a slightly different story.  Granted I am not sure if these dollar amounts include donations from alumni or not, but I would think they do since Pacific's is so high.

Linfield spends 159,000 on football. Willamette spends 102,000. Pacific 258,000. Lewis and Clark 168,000. PLU 102,000. UPS 97,000. Whitworth 152,000.  Those numbers tell me Linfield spends about as much money as anyone else in the conference except for Pacific and if Pacific can keep spending that money and getting ex-Linfield guys to join their staff Linfield could be in trouble because its hard to compete with that kind of money.

On the basketball side of things the top two teams Whitworth and Whitman outspend everyone greatly. Whitworth spends 111,000 and Whitman 116,000. Willamette 69,000. Pacific 59,000. L&C 33,000. GF 50,000. PLU 60,000. UPS 62,000. Linfield 53,000.

So it seems that those schools with the more money to spend are staying atop the conference, except L&C football. So while as you said Joe Smith does not have Scrooge McDuck money to spend he does have enough to be competitive with every team except Pacific.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 25, 2013, 03:36:13 AM
Former:

You're right.  Every coach has a system: Hayford at WW, Gaillard at LC, James at Wil, Bridgeland at both places, Syracuse and Duke.  All I am saying is that if your system is not being successful, and I wholehearted think Linfield has underachieved over the last many years, then you need to take a close look at changing it, adapting it, tweeking it to fit your players to become more successful.   And I am talking about doing more than slowing it down a little bit, not pressing sometimes.  If you can't get the players to fit your system, you need to alter it.

More recently he has played some of the better players 30 minutes or more.  So I guess you could say he has changed, but I say that is a small step in the right direction.  How well has that worked for Linfield?  I have talked with several alums (they are all over the place!) and there is certainly discontent with recent and not so recent results.

His recruiting the last few years has been down, and I agree that that has a lot to do with Playball's points.  But I would not put Doty in as one of the better coaches in the NWC, no way!

Press: 

Yeah, Gordie was a good recruiter and Willamette has some good facilities, location and academics.  I only got to see Gordie in his last years at Willamette, and that may not be fair.  But he has had some very good athletes come through his program, and you can't teach talent.  I just felt his system held some of those better players back.  I thought if you would let them create more, he/they would have done better.  But scoreboard is right.  You can't beat up a national champion coach too much.

I can think of three coaches who have done more with less: Bridgeland, Sundquist and Gaillard.  Bridgeland and Gaillard had some down years with less talented kids and still were competitive, and Sundquist has done well at times with few quality players (I think this year was one of them).  It always seemed to me that Gordie always had 2-4 really good players (including some big, strong, athletic guards come to mind), but I guess you could argue that he developed them. 

Formercat and Rat:

Do tell.  We can keep secrets, and nobody is listening. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 25, 2013, 11:43:27 AM
Quote from: formercat on February 25, 2013, 03:14:16 AM

Not sure where you got your numbers from, but the numbers that I have found from the Department of Education tell a slightly different story.  Granted I am not sure if these dollar amounts include donations from alumni or not, but I would think they do since Pacific's is so high.


Same source but I looked at total expense per team.

Willamette - $646,365
Pacific - $620,963
Whitworth $456,318
Lewis & Clark - $421,329
Linfield - $419,168
Puget Sound - $359,191*
PLU - $332,346

*Puget Sound actually has a total expense less than Linfield.


QuoteOn the basketball side of things the top two teams Whitworth and Whitman outspend everyone greatly. Whitworth spends 111,000 and Whitman 116,000. Willamette 69,000. Pacific 59,000. L&C 33,000. GF 50,000. PLU 60,000. UPS 62,000. Linfield 53,000.

Total expense in hoops has Linfield scrapping bottom too.  I would love to see the college reach a little deeper for all of their programs across the board.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 25, 2013, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 25, 2013, 11:43:27 AM
linfeild

Sad.

oyxBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 25, 2013, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 25, 2013, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 25, 2013, 11:43:27 AM
linfeild

Sad.

oyxBob

Bob...I love you still.  I corrected the typo to make you happy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2013, 02:12:08 PM
Ok, back to the team that is actually still playing...

Whitworth has been given a gift. The NWC doesn't get potential matchups like this in any sport...ever. Beat Redlands (who you've already beaten), then a bubble team who you'll get at home, and finally another team you've already beaten (assuming UMHB wins). Boom. Elite 8.

Just got to limit all of those Redlands shooters this weekend...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2013, 02:15:42 PM
Hey 509 - please report to the fantasy league page - you're up to bat! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on February 25, 2013, 02:39:56 PM
(509) Rat:

I have tons of respect for your guys......but just remember they play the game for a reason........Redlands is not the same team that you (and Chapman) beat earllier this season.

Good luck to the winner in the rest of the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2013, 05:08:03 PM
Dahlby is correct. Can't put too much stock on early season games. Teams evolve tremendously from November to March.  However, if rankings mean anything, this is the best draw WW has ever had. In addition, since travel costs are no longer affected by location, it will be hard to justify sending WW out of Spokane until the Elite 8 (they are #2 in the nation in attendance). 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2013, 06:02:25 PM
dahlby, I don't disagree. Looked at a few box scores and Redlands has been shooting the ball really well for most of the season. Most everyone who made the tourney could beat Whitworth on any given night...that's why they play the game.

I will be the first to congratulate Redlands if they win. BUT until a SCIAC program comes into the fieldhouse and gets a W, I wil always like the Pirates chances.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: frodotwo on February 25, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2013, 05:08:03 PM
Dahlby is correct. Can't put too much stock on early season games. Teams evolve tremendously from November to March.  However, if rankings mean anything, this is the best draw WW has ever had. In addition, since travel costs are no longer affected by location, it will be hard to justify sending WW out of Spokane until the Elite 8 (they are #2 in the nation in attendance).

??? Not unless they outdraw Hope or Calvin or Wooster or UWSP.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2013, 12:11:22 AM
Quote from: frodotwo on February 25, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2013, 05:08:03 PM
Dahlby is correct. Can't put too much stock on early season games. Teams evolve tremendously from November to March.  However, if rankings mean anything, this is the best draw WW has ever had. In addition, since travel costs are no longer affected by location, it will be hard to justify sending WW out of Spokane until the Elite 8 (they are #2 in the nation in attendance).

??? Not unless they outdraw Hope or Calvin or Wooster or UWSP.

Last year WW was #8.  I heard they were #2 this year at one point.  Not sure where they stand now. Nonetheless, none of the teams mentioned are in their bracket.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2013, 01:25:53 AM
Looked at the bracket for St. Thomas.  I don't envy their draw.  Could face Wheaton second round, Calvin or UWSP third round.  Challenging road to the 4rth round.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2013, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2013, 12:11:22 AM
Quote from: frodotwo on February 25, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2013, 05:08:03 PM
Dahlby is correct. Can't put too much stock on early season games. Teams evolve tremendously from November to March.  However, if rankings mean anything, this is the best draw WW has ever had. In addition, since travel costs are no longer affected by location, it will be hard to justify sending WW out of Spokane until the Elite 8 (they are #2 in the nation in attendance).

??? Not unless they outdraw Hope or Calvin or Wooster or UWSP.

Last year WW was #8.  I heard they were #2 this year at one point.  Not sure where they stand now

Dunno why someone would've told you that Whitworth was #2 in D3 in home attendance, since attendance numbers aren't compiled by the NCAA until after the season.

Nevertheless, based upon self-reported statistics at this point in the season, there's a bunch of schools that currently have higher home attendance averages than Whitworth's:


Hope  2,748
Calvin  1,949
Wooster  1,647
UWSP  1,448
Franklin & Marshall  1,152
Illinois Wesleyan  1,138
Northwestern  1,084
Whitworth  1,056

These numbers are fluid, of course. Wooster, UWSP, Illinois Wesleyan, and Whitworth will all get to host at least one more game this season, and it's quite likely that several of them will get to host more than one. But it's pretty obvious that Whitworth is nowhere near #2 in the nation in home attendance, nor will it finish any higher than fifth, at best.

The more important point regarding home games is that Whitworth is clearly the top seed in its grouping of seven teams that feeds into one quarterfinal slot at Salem. Given the spread-out nature of this seven-team group (Washington, California, and two Virginia teams represented in one half, with three Texas teams in the other half), there's no reason why the committee would feel the need to fly the Pirates out of Spokane to play somewhere else, since the next three weekends will all consist of individual matchups rather than three- or four-team pods. Whitworth is clearly one of the teams that is in line to host three games prior to the quarterfinals in Salem, should the Pirates keep winning.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 27, 2013, 02:45:37 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2013, 06:02:25 PM
BUT until a SCIAC program comes into the fieldhouse and gets a W, I wil always like the Pirates chances.

In the last 5 years Whitworth is 59-6 at home. Advantage Pirates.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 03, 2013, 04:12:36 PM
On to the next one!  Good luck WW, hopefully it won't be such a test as this first one was.  Make the NWC proud
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2013, 05:00:28 PM
Unfortunately I think it's going to be more of a test. Emory doesn't shoot the ball as well as Redlands does, but they have a stingier defense. Whitworth might be a little more efficient than Emory on the offensive end of the court but statistically speaking, pretty much every category is a wash. The only thing Emory doesn't seem to have is a dedicated big man. Their starting 5 is a bit small and (from the game I saw) they get around this by trapping up high and putting a lot of pressure on the ball. They keep you from getting the ball into the post so they don't have to defend it. Farnsworth has to get touches and actually take care of the ball this week for Whitworth to win. I don't know if the guards will get the type of looks from 3 that they'd need to shoot Whitworth back into this game if it comes to that (like it did against Redlands).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2013, 06:07:43 PM
For any UAA lurkers, here's a quick look at the Fieldhouse from last weekend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD9QjnD91S4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD9QjnD91S4)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 05, 2013, 12:41:25 AM
Big congratulations to Willamette's Sean Dart, who was named one of 10 finalists for the Jostens Trophy today.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2013/03/jostens-finalists-announced

Sean is Willamette's NWC-leading sixth Jostens Trophy finalist, joining Brad Nelson (1999), Shawn Gahr (2000), Kip Ioane (2001), Ryan Hepp (2003), and Cameron Mitchell (2010).  He's been a real pleasure to watch the last three years, and he's a terrific ambassador for both Bearcat Hoop and the university as a whole.

(Edited to add a link to Willamette's press release):

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/archive/2013/03/05_MBK_Dart_Jostens_Finalist.php
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 07, 2013, 11:44:58 AM
Congrats to Dart.  That's a great honor.  Bearcat, your second link doesn't connect to the story.  Can you re-post it?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 07, 2013, 02:44:04 PM
Thanks for the heads up, A Buc Forever.  The link is fixed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on March 08, 2013, 09:49:09 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 04, 2013, 06:07:43 PM
For any UAA lurkers, here's a quick look at the Fieldhouse from last weekend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD9QjnD91S4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD9QjnD91S4)

It would be interesting to know how many UAA fans in general and Emory fans in particular have clicked on the Northwest Conference thread.  I have reason to believe that the answer is very few.

Otherwise, Emory would have seen a comparable crowd and gym at least once this Spring.  Should be a good game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 10, 2013, 04:14:09 AM
Great win by WW.  Didn't get a chance to watch the game.  What were the technicals all about?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 10, 2013, 12:18:17 PM
Chalk another one up to Logie outcoaching his opponent. Every Emory adjustment and run was countered by Whitworth. Impressive performance. Whitworth did a great job of getting OPEN looks against a tough/aggressive Emory defense. If you would have told me Whitworth was going to turn the ball over 19 times I would have told you they're gonna lose. But I also would never have thought they would have gotten the shots that they did and been as efficient (offensively) as they were.

I don't know about the first technical issued to the bench, but the ones by Davis (while somewhat ticky tack by technical standards) were justified. Davis shoved Farnsworth after the whistle and then connected an elbow above the shoulders. 2 things you CAN'T do anymore in NCAA basketball. Especially connecting with an opponent's head. It's just like watching a football game with new "targeting" rules. 5 years ago it's a good play, but not anymore. That's life and as a player you have to know better. Just from what I saw, both of Davis' T's were out of frustration and I don't blame him. Down most of the game, opponent hasn't missed a shot, not getting a lot of help from his teammates...he was a "mentally tired guy" and didn't handle it well. Which is a shame because he is a very good basketball player.

One more home game against another up tempo team who they've beaten (at home) once already this year. UMHB has the athletes to run you out of a gym, but Whitworth has now played 3 games in a row against up tempo, high pressure teams without much trouble. UMHB is going to have to make shots outside of 17 feet if they want to win this game. I don't think they will be able to dictate the tempo like they did yesterday against CTX. Earlier this season UMHB scored 61 against Whitworth...just about HALF of what they put up against CTX. I would be shocked if this one goes over 160 total points.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 10, 2013, 04:35:17 PM
The first tech against the bench was due to the fact that the Emory bench thought that Whitworth committed a shot clock violation but it went uncalled. The coach exploded, but I think that the bench was nearly completely on the court too.

I didn't see it happen (I was listening to the game but reading the boards at the time), but that's how it was described by the WW media guys. FWIW, they didn't disagree that there should have been a shot clock violation.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Cdalakelady on March 10, 2013, 05:41:00 PM
Did not really see the first two technicals. I could not see the bench from where I was sitting and I was not watching the shot clock. Here is what I remember about the last technical. The last technical occurred after one of our players (I think is was Larkin) ended up flat on his back at the end of the play.  When he got up Davis walked straight into him and bumped him hard.  He tried to make it look like an accident, like he wasn't watching where he was walking. The crowd roared and then he walked into the Whitworth player again.  The technical was the called. It appeared to me the refs didn't want to make the call but had to.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 11, 2013, 02:40:21 AM
From my perspective, I thought Mack Larkin's shot beat the shot clock before the first T, but it was a bang-bang play. If they had called it the other way, the WW guys would have been upset. Tough call because it was so close; however, the Emory bench clearly was on the court. They also televised the game in eastern Washington, so I'm not sure what the rules are at D3, but I assume they could have looked on those monitors. Not sure why they didn't if it was available.

Second T was an obvious late push. Final T: from what I saw Davis pushed Larkin late (like he did to Farnsworth to pick up the first T), then Larkin's face and Davis' elbow connected seconds later. Not sure how much of the elbow to the face was instigated by Davis. Even as a WW homer, I thought Larkin's ran into Davis' elbow rather than Davis going for Larkin's face. The rumor I've heard is that there was potentially a spitting incident that led to the T. Like I said, it's a rumor, but one that apparently was heard through one of the media outlets. That final T really swung the game for WW, leading to a seven-point possession. Until then it looked like Emory might be staging a comeback.

I thought the officials let the game get out of hand. They really let the physical play go, while calling ticky-tack fouls on both teams. That led to two frustrated teams in an emotional game. WW just happened to stay more composed down the stretch and I'm certain the home court and double-digit lead led to the composure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 11, 2013, 08:04:46 PM
Congrats to the Bucs on another home game.  Nice to see the program get recognized for their play on the court and the fantastic attendance. I can't say enough about what this team has accomplished so far. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2013, 10:21:22 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 11, 2013, 08:04:46 PM
Congrats to the Bucs on another home game.  Nice to see the program get recognized for their play on the court and the fantastic attendance. I can't say enough about what this team has accomplished so far.

I was glad to see this happen, because the way the NCAA spends money on this tournament, Whitworth isn't going to get too many other opportunities to host three rounds.  :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 11, 2013, 10:46:45 PM
I'm not sure yet what WW has accomplished yet quite frankly.  They've yet to play a ranked team so I don't think we've seen them truly tested to know if that #6 ranking was deserved or not.  In the first 3 rounds of the tournament they're playing 2 unranked teams that they already beat so it doesn't give us an idea of how they stack up against the other top teams.  We knew they could beat Redlands and we know they can beat MHB.  I'm looking forward to them probably playing St. Mary's so we can truly see where they stand.

They aren't the only team going into the tournament that had similar question marks.  #7 Midd had played 3 games against Top 25 teams going into the tournament and had lost all 3.  But, they got their match up against #23 Cortland State last round and they beat them so for me that shows are probably deserving of at least Top 15 or better ranking.  I don't think we'll know how WW stacks up nationally until the Elite 8, if they make it there. 

Every tournament win is a great win, I'm just talking about how the stand in the polls and whether their #6 ranking is justified. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 11, 2013, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on March 11, 2013, 02:40:21 AM
I thought the officials let the game get out of hand. They really let the physical play go, while calling ticky-tack fouls on both teams. That led to two frustrated teams in an emotional game. WW just happened to stay more composed down the stretch and I'm certain the home court and double-digit lead led to the composure.

You have to give the refs some credit, though... (or at least a break). They've got a really tough job.

They typically referee in a few different leagues (of which neither team playing can be a part, due to NCAA regulations regarding officials). They know coaching and playing styles and tendencies and likely have refereed multiple games for the same teams throughout the year. This is the first time the teams and refs have seen each other.

In a regular league, coaches and players know what is allowed and what they can "get away" with. Not saying that players would take it right to the edge... but they go just far enough to not get a foul called, etc, and they know the limits. With an unknown quantity like a brand new ref, a guy may be playing to his strengths, only to be called for two quick fouls and have to sit. That's a severe downside to the inconsistency between leagues in terms of physicality and how closely a game is called.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2013, 12:11:37 AM
They played St. Thomas this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Cdalakelady on March 12, 2013, 12:19:08 AM
Whitworth won their conference, won their tournament and have advanced to the sweet 16. That is domething to be proud of. But then we are use to getting no respect in Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2013, 12:11:37 AM
They played St. Thomas this season.

...and lost.  How much mileage can you get from losing a game?  That was 28 games ago and yet it's still being used as justification for a top 10 ranking.  They may be a top 10 team, but for me you have beat some top teams to prove that at some point.  Correct me if I'm wrong but WW is the only top 10 team that hasn't beaten a top 25 team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2013, 12:31:52 AM
Well, you made the point about Middlebury -- when we last voted, they hadn't won one of those either. Pretty much in the same boat still, even if Midd did just beat No. 23 this week. That alone doesn't shout out Top 10 either, but we give both programs that respect this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 12:38:09 AM
Quote from: Cdalakelady on March 12, 2013, 12:19:08 AM
Whitworth won their conference, won their tournament and have advanced to the sweet 16. That is domething to be proud of. But then we are use to getting no respect in Spokane.

Like I said, any win in the tournament is a great win.  A #6 ranking without beating a top 25 team in 29 games played, I don't think a lack of respect is the issue. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2013, 01:12:40 AM
Whitworth has had a heck of season.  They haven't played the kind of competition they have faced the last few years where they beat several highly ranked teams and went deep in the tourney playing some very tough teams.  However, the schedule is not their fault. They scheduled some traditionally good teams that were a little down this year.  The draw they got in the tournament is a little easier than than they've had in the past. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.  So, a 22-3 regular season record doesn't quite mean the same as it did in the past and getting to the Sweet Sixteen was a little easier this time, it still does not take away from the fact that this team won league, won the league tournament, and is in the Sweet Sixteen.  Hats off to them, they are playing the hand they were dealt and they are playing it well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Cdalakelady on March 12, 2013, 01:24:55 AM
And I do not understand the concern over the rankings. We are in the middle of a tournament and the final rankings will be decided by the teams playing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 12, 2013, 06:54:44 AM
Quote from: Cdalakelady on March 12, 2013, 01:24:55 AM
And I do not understand the concern over the rankings. We are in the middle of a tournament and the final rankings will be decided by the teams playing.

This is my take on why the rankings do and do not matter (as if my take means anything!)

Matters:
Is a reflection of how the team has done during the season.  The higher the ranking the better body of work that team has put together, which can show how good the team really is.
Shows the perception of the team by people who know basketball.
Generally a good indicator of strength of team, however you still play the games for a reason.

Example of why rankings matter: home games in the playoffs, which I was always told is a benefit of about 10 points to the home team just because of crowd, being used to the gym, etc.

Doesn't matter:
Games are still played and anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Example: Chaminade beats Texas this year.


I think the point Madzillagd is trying to make is that WW hasn't beat a similarly ranked team.  This would show that their strength of schedule is down (Not their fault, schedules are made before the season starts.  Usually strong teams have been down this year).  An example of beating ranked teams and it mattering is Duke this year.  Early on they smashed on Top 5 teams early and have done ok in the ACC.  They didn't win their conference but will get the overall top seed (most likely) in March Madness.  This usually means that they will have an easier route to the final four.  So, rankings matter when the tourneys are set.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2013, 08:56:45 AM
Which rankings are you talking about? It seems like you are confusing or combining two very different aspects of different ranking systems.

The Top 25 is voted on by people around the country using whatever information they deem necessary.

The Regional Rankings is an NCAA system based on criteria and only on a regional aspect.

Home games are determined by the Regional Rankings not the Top 25, so national polls have nothing to do with the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 11:35:54 AM
I'm talking the make believe world of the Top 25, I'm not talking about Regional ranking or anything like that.  We have a week to kill between games, we have to talk about something.  The 'all they have accomplished' comment just got my mind churning because in terms of making the Sweet Sixteen etc. they have of course accomplished a lot (real world accomplishment).  But, in terms of the Top 25 (make believe world), they have yet to prove themselves and we don't know yet even at this late stage of the game whether they are truly the #6 team in the country or whether they really are the #26th team in the country.  We'd have a better sense of that if they had played other Top 25 teams because we could compare them to each other but they've only played 1 and they lost. We know they aren't they #1 team but I'm still not sure what makes them the #6 team instead of the #16 team.

Here are the resumes of the Top 10 teams (current poll) and their records against other Top 25 teams (current poll only).  Each win/loss listed separately so you know if they played a team more than once.

#1 ST:  Wins 6, 11, 14, 11, 22

#2 Amherst: Wins #8, 8, 8, 7, 13

#3 North Central: Wins 15, 22, 10, 5  Losses  10, 22

#4 WPI: Wins 13, 24  Losses 24

#5 UWWW: Wins 10  Losses 14, 14, 3

#6 WW: Wins    Losses 1

#7 Midd:  Wins 23  Losses 2, 8, 8

#8 Williams:  Wins 7, 7, 9  Losses 2, 2, 2

#9 Catholic: Wins 11   Losses  8

#10 Ill Wes:  Wins 22, 3, 22, 17  Losses 5, 17, 3


St Thomas and Amherst have each won 5 games against Top 25 teams without losing.  Very impressive and it's easy to see why they are #1 & #2 in the nation.  You look through that list there's only one team that hasn't proven themselves with a big win yet.  Midd was there last week too but they got that win over #23 CS so it helped to show that they should be somewhere up there (but shouldn't be above Williams which they lost to both times in my opinion). 

WW is a Sweet Sixteen team in the real world.  In make believe Top 25 world I have no idea yet if they are the #6 team in the country and it might take 2 weeks to find that out if they get to go up against St Marys. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2013, 01:05:32 PM
So UWW's 1 win against a top 25 team and it's 3 losses is much more impressive? That's what justifies their #5 rating? Or is it the fact that they've won games against a lot of "good" opponents?

The NWC was down and naturally top 25 games are going to be hard to come by when your out on the PNW island. Whitworth might not have played a bunch of top 25 teams, but they have a higher SOS than any of the NESCAC teams, higher than St. Mary's, Catholic's, and Woosters. They've played above average competition all season long and done nothing but win. Given Whitworth's and the NWC's performances in years past, and that they played a fairly difficult and diverse non-conference sched, and that this is a top 25 poll where history typically matters to voters and W-L is king...it makes perfect sense why Whitworth would be #6.

And since when is this "easy road to the sweet 16" issue/argument a thing? I don't remember people saying that about any of the NE school's brackets. Ever.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2013, 02:26:49 PM
madzillagd - my comment was to playball who was referencing both it appeared.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 12, 2013, 02:41:28 PM
Sorry, I was under the impression that the tournament was done by a selection committee. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
It is... using criteria that creates the regional rankings...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 12, 2013, 02:49:35 PM
Im still fuzzy on this.  Is it then set up like NWC Champ versus Sciac champ? WIAC Champ versus at large? Etc? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
UWWW jumped out at me as well but I didn't want to make it too long of a post.  They lost obviously and it makes you wonder if they were truly deserving of that ranking - it depends on the criteria of the voters.  I think in general the voters give the teams that play a lot of quality opponents (and have a higher SOS as a result) a lot of deserving credit for those wins.  But it's an imperfect system of course because it's so spread out and it's tough to measure one opponent versus another.  It's in the tournament when we usually see ranked teams playing each other where things start to get confirmed but that hasn't happened yet for WW because of the schedule.  They're still playing teams they played during the season so I have no way of knowing whether they are better than the NESCAC schools or worse than the Midwest schools for example.   

On the NESCAC board I can assure that many were commenting on how Midd ended up with a very favorable draw.  The SOS maybe be lower for those teams but in terms of getting testing, the NE teams that are still in (Amherst, Midd, Williams) have all been tested multiple times.  WW played 3 games this year against tournament teams (2-1).  Amherst played 6 (5-1).  Midd played 4 (1-3). Williams played 8 (4-4).  Midd is the weakest of the group and I think they've been ranked too high all year (and you can find my posts 3-4 months ago talking about that to the ire of the Midd fans) but they lucked out and got a good draw.  Williams doesn't look great at 4-4 but they are 4-1 against teams not named Amherst so I think they are about where they should be and could see them down below Ill Wes and it would make sense to me. 

I'm a West coast guy, SCIAC alum and been following the NWC schools from afar for the past couple of years so I totally understand the limitations in terms of schedules etc. when it comes to the West.  It's not WW's fault they haven't played a Top 25 school in the tournament yet, I'm just saying I'm not convinced they are the #6 team in the country until they do play a Top 25 team and beat them.  St Mary's should be that test and since they are #11 it will bring a lot of evidence that they deserve that spot.  Midd's victory proved to me they deserved to be up there, I'm just not convinced yet they should be as high as #7.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: playball on March 12, 2013, 02:49:35 PM
Im still fuzzy on this.  Is it then set up like NWC Champ versus Sciac champ? WIAC Champ versus at large? Etc?

No.  But travel dictates a lot of who people play.  The NCAA wants to limit the number of flights for teams to keep down costs so usually SCIAC vs NWC is a First Round game but it doesn't have to be. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2013, 02:56:28 PM
This may help you from the D3hoops.com FAQs: http://www.d3hoops.com/interactive/faq/ncaatournament (http://www.d3hoops.com/interactive/faq/ncaatournament)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 12, 2013, 06:26:34 PM
Larry Doty has retired as Linfield head basketball coach:

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.php?id=4869
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on March 12, 2013, 06:28:10 PM
Larry Doty has retired as men's basketball coach at Linfield College. Given the lack of support from the College and the Athletic Department, I am not surprised.  If the College does not increase support for basketball, this will be a difficult job for any coach.  I wish the new coach good luck - he will need it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 06:36:32 PM
I wonder given the budget restraints previously mentioned, if the new coach will have smarts to ask if Doty could help out on recruiting and if asked, would Doty do it.  Doesn't have to be a full time job  or anything, but if he could hit a handful of tournaments etc. a year might help the team improve.  He obviously knows the school and what it means to play sports there. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 12, 2013, 06:54:50 PM
Good luck to the new coach and congrats on a great career at Linfield for Dotes!  He always talked about writing a book of all the crap he had to put up with and I hope he does it!  A must read for sure. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2013, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 12, 2013, 01:05:32 PMAnd since when is this "easy road to the sweet 16" issue/argument a thing? I don't remember people saying that about any of the NE school's brackets. Ever.

Then you must be skipping over certain pages, especially in the Multi-Region Topics tree, because the "easy road to Salem" argument has been directed at the Northeast and East regions, NESCAC teams and Rochester in particular, over and over and over again through the years. The NESCAC regulars are almost as sick of hearing about it as they are of hearing about how their conference "games the system" by only playing a single round-robin conference schedule.

Quote from: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
UWWW jumped out at me as well but I didn't want to make it too long of a post.  They lost obviously and it makes you wonder if they were truly deserving of that ranking - it depends on the criteria of the voters.

Fifth-ranked UWW lost by four points to North Central, the #3 team in the nation, on NCC's home floor. The Warhawks actually had a chance to tie the game, down 63-60 with six seconds left; Darnell Harris missed a trey attempt, the Cardinals rebounded, and made one free throw to create the final margin. For a lot of observers, be they pollsters, fans, coaches, or computer programs, four points is the standard variation for home-court advantage. Sagarin, in fact, uses the four-point tilt for home court in all college basketball projections. Massey and other ranking systems, by contrast, have variable home-court advantages that are calculated for each individual team ... but when you take all the teams in the division together and average out their home-court advantages, the average is right around -- you guessed it -- four points.

My read on how the d3hoops.com pollsters tend to think is that the Warhawks would probably not have been penalized for that four-point loss at North Central in terms of where UWW would be ranked the next week, all other factors remaining equal. Of course, the fact that there are no d3hoops.com polls taken between the beginning of the D3 tourney and the championship game changes all that.

Bottom line: UWW's loss to North Central last Saturday doesn't make me wonder if the Warhawks were truly deserving of that ranking. If anything, the loss somewhat confirms UWW's lofty ranking, because it's no mean feat to take this particular NCC team down almost to the final buzzer on its home floor the way that the Warhawks did.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2013, 08:04:26 PM
Incidentally, let me state for the record that, although in a perfect world a properly-constructed tournament bracket like D1's would be ideal, given the limitations with which the D3 men's basketball committee is forced to work, I'm happy that Whitworth gets three consecutive home games this year before having to travel to Salem. (That's if the Pirates beat the Crusaders this coming Saturday, of course.) It feels like payback for all of the times that NWC teams (especially Whitworth) have gotten the shaft in terms of hosting, due to their unfortunate geographical circumstances.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 12, 2013, 09:47:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2013, 08:04:26 PM
Incidentally, let me state for the record that, although in a perfect world a properly-constructed tournament bracket like D1's would be ideal, given the limitations with which the D3 men's basketball committee is forced to work, I'm happy that Whitworth gets three consecutive home games this year before having to travel to Salem. (That's if the Pirates beat the Crusaders this coming Saturday, of course.) It feels like payback for all of the times that NWC teams (especially Whitworth) have gotten the shaft in terms of hosting, due to their unfortunate geographical circumstances.

I think we can all agree that would be awesome but it's never going to happen of course. 

Given the outcome and their record against other Top 25 teams wouldn't you slot UWWW closer to 10th than 5th at this point?  I think a poll done today may look something like this...

ST
Amherst
NC
WW
Williams
Midd
Ill Wes
St Marys
Calvin
UWWW?
Wooster
VW

UWWW may be above Wooster but I don't think they stay above anybody else. I do believe WPI would drop below them for sure.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2013, 10:27:26 PM
Having seen UWW play, I have no problems with the Warhawks being ranked fifth.

I don't think they'll stay there in the final poll, though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 13, 2013, 02:48:08 AM
Quote from: catmac567 on March 12, 2013, 06:28:10 PM
Larry Doty has retired as men's basketball coach at Linfield College. Given the lack of support from the College and the Athletic Department, I am not surprised.  If the College does not increase support for basketball, this will be a difficult job for any coach.  I wish the new coach good luck - he will need it.

Doty asked for money for a full time assistant coach, he was told no. He asked for money to play other D3 teams during the non-conference schedule so theirs would not have to be so heavy with NAIA teams from the Cascade Conference, he was told no. He asked for a reduced work load outside of basketball (teaching obligations), he was told no. So he told them he go no longer keep going without any financial support.  Meanwhile the football team gets extra money to fly in recruits from across the country.

The new coach will have the good fortune of only having to be the Head Basketball Coach even though they made Doty teach classes, guess that person has that going for them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2013, 11:25:53 AM
If they didn't want Doty to stick around, I could see them saying no. It's possible the next coach might get some of those things.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 13, 2013, 01:13:28 PM
Let's not forget that some of the budget is on the coach. The basketball budget is not as large as it is because the school is forking over a bunch of money. It was Hayford, wining and dining friends, alumni, local (and some not so local) businesses, etc. I'm sure Logie and his staff continue to work many of those connections, since I know other sports have gotten deals at hotels, for example, because Hayford had already built the relationship.

Any alumni or business donations that may have dried up, well thats on Doty. 100%.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 13, 2013, 01:17:04 PM
More importantly, congrats to Wade Gebbers for making d3hoops all-West Region 1st Team!

This is probably more of a nod due to lifetime achievement, but it's well deserved and recognizes the guy responsible for righting the ship after those late season losses. He really stepped up and led the team to playing some of it's best basketball of the season leading up to the tournament.

http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2012-13/west-men (http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2012-13/west-men)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 13, 2013, 01:38:39 PM
:)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 13, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 13, 2013, 01:38:39 PM
:)

Not sure why you take such joy in all of this, not as if you gave a damn about what happened with basketball beyond the fact it was coached by a man that was hated by the great and immature Ad Rutschman.

While the P.O.L.E. group was trying to hurt Doty it also indirectly hurt many basketball student-athletes. disgusting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 13, 2013, 07:00:17 PM
Quote from: formercat on March 13, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 13, 2013, 01:38:39 PM
:)

Not sure why you take such joy in all of this, not as if you gave a damn about what happened with basketball beyond the fact it was coached by a man that was hated by the great and immature Ad Rutschman.

While the P.O.L.E. group was trying to hurt Doty it also indirectly hurt many basketball student-athletes. disgusting.

If I could give +k I would for that Cat!

So, any thoughts on UMHB from anyone?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 13, 2013, 08:38:40 PM
8-)

Go 'Rats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on March 14, 2013, 12:14:51 AM
It is sad that there are football alumni of Linfield who care only about their sport and do anything to protect that sport at the expense of the other sports at Linfield.  Unfortunately there is a cult of personality built around Ad Rutschman which is similar to what was built up around Joe Paterno at Penn State. The best thing for Linfield College would be for the streak to end.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on March 14, 2013, 12:36:26 AM
The full name of P.O.L.E. (Protect Our Linfield Experience) should be Polecats.   My late father who was a trustee of Linfield at that time, got many nasty letters from POLE
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Quote from: catmac567 on March 14, 2013, 12:14:51 AM
Unfortunately there is a cult of personality built around Ad Rutschman which is similar to what was built up around Joe Paterno at Penn State. The best thing for Linfield College would be for the streak to end.

Doesn't look that way from the outside. Without the Linfield football program, there would be very little national D-III name recognition. (And the remaining recognition would be from Scott Brosius.)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 14, 2013, 05:23:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Quote from: catmac567 on March 14, 2013, 12:14:51 AM
Unfortunately there is a cult of personality built around Ad Rutschman which is similar to what was built up around Joe Paterno at Penn State. The best thing for Linfield College would be for the streak to end.

Doesn't look that way from the outside. Without the Linfield football program, there would be very little national D-III name recognition. (And the remaining recognition would be from Scott Brosius.)

Its kept that way for a reason.


UMHB doesn't look like they shoot it all that great from anywhere on the court.  However, they did put up 117 on CTX!  I don't know if that was because of poor defense or just knocking down shots and/or fast break layups.  My guess would be a lot of fastbreaking especially with their spike in % over their average during the year.  Looking at their roster it looks like they have some size....but leave it on the bench for the most part.  I think this is where WW is going to hurt them the most.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 14, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
I know I said I'd let Whitworth have their run. I am trying to keep it simple....two women's softball championships.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 14, 2013, 05:35:32 PM
UMHB is a very athletic team that really doesn't shoot jumpers from anywhere on the court incredibly well. But they do a good job of getting to the basket and scoring off of "hustle" plays (Offensive boards/putbacks, steals/breakaways, etc.). Whitworth already beat them at home early this season. As long as the Pirates keep the Cru in front of them and stay out of foul trouble, they should win. I would like to see a lower number of TO's from Whitworth this week. 19 against a team like UMHB usually means a lot of easy buckets for them.

If Whitworth shoots like they did against Emory, I would feel very safe with a 10-12 point lead against a team like UMHB. At least more so than against a team like Redlands who could make that up in 3-4 straight possessions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 15, 2013, 01:56:28 AM
I love all the optimism from across the country about WW's chances this weekend, but let's not count our chickens before they hatch. I know, I know, we already beat them, but at this point in the tournament there are no bad teams. Plus it's tough to beat a good team twice. Pride comes before the fall, etc. It doesn't matter to me how much WW wins by, I just hope they win.

On a side note, if what playball says is true about Doty writing a book about the crap he put up with over the years, I hope he does it. I know I'd read it. I'm sure he has some stories to tell.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 15, 2013, 04:55:43 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Doesn't look that way from the outside. Without the Linfield football program, there would be very little national D-III name recognition. (And the remaining recognition would be from Scott Brosius.)

D-III name recognition? I grew up in the Northwest and the only D-III schools I had ever heard of is the two that were 30 minutes away from my house and one of those was because my uncle had played there when they were in Division II.  I had never heard of Linfield or any of the other NWC schools until they showed up to recruit me. Name recognition is not the same for D-III schools or really any one as it is with D-I. I can imagine that not many high school student athletes know of any other non D-I schools outside of their state or small region.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 15, 2013, 03:36:42 PM
He is saying that from a D3 point of view... people know Linfield because of their football program. We are not talking overall national point of view or local or state point of view... but from the point of view of those in Division III. If Linfield doesn't have a successful football program... there isn't much else to have people recognize the name in Division III.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 15, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 15, 2013, 03:36:42 PM
He is saying that from a D3 point of view... people know Linfield because of their football program. We are not talking overall national point of view or local or state point of view... but from the point of view of those in Division III. If Linfield doesn't have a successful football program... there isn't much else to have people recognize the name in Division III.

What does recognition at the D-III level, those already involved in D-III athletics as you said, get Linfield athletics?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 15, 2013, 11:23:26 PM
8-)

No injuries 'Rats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 16, 2013, 12:47:06 AM
Whitworth getting some great press:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/mar/15/whitworth-would-be-thrilled-if-road-trip-next/

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/mar/15/fifth-broken-nose-wont-stop-larkin-from-defending/

Really great to see WW generating such enthusiasm even in the shadow of Gonzaga. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 16, 2013, 01:07:25 AM
Quote from: formercat on March 15, 2013, 04:55:43 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Doesn't look that way from the outside. Without the Linfield football program, there would be very little national D-III name recognition. (And the remaining recognition would be from Scott Brosius.)

D-III name recognition? I grew up in the Northwest and the only D-III schools I had ever heard of is the two that were 30 minutes away from my house and one of those was because my uncle had played there when they were in Division II.  I had never heard of Linfield or any of the other NWC schools until they showed up to recruit me. Name recognition is not the same for D-III schools or really any one as it is with D-I. I can imagine that not many high school student athletes know of any other non D-I schools outside of their state or small region.

Sports are key to name recognition for small colleges.  Schools were dropping football left and right in the 70's and 80's.  After Whitman dropped football, someone asked the president of Whitworth why he didn't follow their lead since he was not that interested in the the game.  He looked at the person like they were a from another planet and said, "No way, it is the best advertising we have."  That was said in the face of the fact that we were bad back then.   

On a personal note, the first time I heard of Whitworth it was with regard to their football team.  I was living in Regina, Saskatchewan at the time.  When I was going to Whitworth my organic chem prof at Whitworth commented on the fact that I was in the paper a lot more than the president of the university.  Don't underestimate the power of sports in giving even small schools brand recognition.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 16, 2013, 01:00:23 PM
Game day!  Go Pirates!  Let's keel haul the Crusaders!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Cdalakelady on March 16, 2013, 03:18:08 PM
Go Pirates.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 16, 2013, 11:46:00 PM
Congrats to UMHB. Did a great job of crashing the offensive boards and getting easy put backs. They didn't let Whitworth get inside in the first half and that was the difference. Whitworth was too content to chuck up 3's and it cost them. Well that at FT's at the end of the game. Player control fouls were brutal tonight. 5 of the first 7 calls against Whitworth were charges, only maybe 2 of which were correctly called IMO.

Whitworth was given a gift from the NCAA, the likes of which they will never see again. Too bad they didn't take advantage of it. Just didn't play a great game tonight which was unfortunate to watch. On a positive note, word on the street is that they have an immediate upgrade or two coming in already. They'll be the favorite to win the NWC again, but could be scary good. As always it was a fun ride. Good luck to the Cru in Salem!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 17, 2013, 06:13:46 PM
Great season by WW.  It's always disappointing for it to end, but they have a lot to be proud of.   Hopefully they can reload and come back strong next year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 18, 2013, 07:48:24 PM
Quote"Good luck to the new coach and congrats on a great career at Linfield for Dotes! He always talked about writing a book of all the crap he had to put up with and I hope he does it! A must read for sure."

Quote"Larry Doty is retiring after 26 seasons and a school-record 330 victories."
Damn those statistics! For the book it will stand 330 wins, 347 losses (.487).

Quote"Any alumni or business donations that may have dried up, well that's on Doty. 100%."

Amen.
(You're unfortunately right about the home gift given Whitworth.)

Quote"While the P.O.L.E. group was trying to hurt Doty it also indirectly hurt many basketball student-athletes. disgusting."

Never heard of that group myself.

Quote"The best thing for Linfield College would be for the streak to end."

Maybe Joe Smith could go on sabbatical for one season and Doty could coach football for you.

Quote"Doesn't look that way from the outside. Without the Linfield football program, there would be very little national D-III name recognition. (And the remaining recognition would be from Scott Brosius.)"
Quote"Its kept that way for a reason."

Would that include an insignia and secret handshake?

Quote"D-III name recognition?"

I heard of LINFIELD when they won the NAIA baseball championship in 1966 all the way in Southern California.
Sports Illustrated did a little column on LINFIELD in 1972 when they found out the football coach handled the game from the top of the grand stands.

Quote"people know Linfield because of their football program"

High school softball coaches know about LINFIELD  from the two women's Championships here in SoCal.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 19, 2013, 12:01:57 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 18, 2013, 07:48:24 PM
Quote"Any alumni or business donations that may have dried up, well that's on Doty. 100%."

Amen.
(You're unfortunately right about the home gift given Whitworth.)

Quote"While the P.O.L.E. group was trying to hurt Doty it also indirectly hurt many basketball student-athletes. disgusting."

Never heard of that group myself.

The P.O.L.E. group is the Protect Our Linfield Experience group which is made up of a lot of football alumni, the same guys who shot down the new look for the mascot after the college spent thousands of dollars on it.

Alumni money... well an alum had contacted the AD about several of us donating money to the basketball program to increase the funds Doty had to work with.... Carnahan never responded to him... sabotage?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 19, 2013, 10:38:38 AM
I see. Chess game that probably goes on everywhere there is a budget and chances of increasing income.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 19, 2013, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: formercat on March 19, 2013, 12:01:57 AM

The P.O.L.E. group is the Protect Our Linfield Experience group which is made up of a lot of football alumni, the same guys who shot down the new look for the mascot after the college spent thousands of dollars on it.


I've been around Linfield for 19 years and this is the 1st time I've heard of P.O.L.E..  However, if this "group" is responsible for shooting down that dumpster fire of a updated mascot that was rolled out then kudos to them.  That thing was hideous and President Hellie made a great decision to send it back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 19, 2013, 02:47:53 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 19, 2013, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: formercat on March 19, 2013, 12:01:57 AM

The P.O.L.E. group is the Protect Our Linfield Experience group which is made up of a lot of football alumni, the same guys who shot down the new look for the mascot after the college spent thousands of dollars on it.


I've been around Linfield for 19 years and this is the 1st time I've heard of P.O.L.E..  However, if this "group" is responsible for shooting down that dumpster fire of a updated mascot that was rolled out then kudos to them.  That thing was hideous and President Hellie made a great decision to send it back to the drawing board.

It is interesting that the P.O.L.E. group is not more well known, beginning to feel like it is the Skull and Crossbones of Linfield College.  The current Linfield mascot is old and tired, we must be one of the few schools left with a lame cartoon mascot from the 1950's. The Wildcat is a sailor? Even Oregon State changed theirs recently.

In other news I heard a rumor that a very prominent NWC coach has put in for the Linfield Men's basketball coaching job.  What I like about this possibility is if he was hired he could be a real pain in the ass to the football establishment.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 19, 2013, 03:47:06 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on March 19, 2013, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: formercat on March 19, 2013, 12:01:57 AM

The P.O.L.E. group is the Protect Our Linfield Experience group which is made up of a lot of football alumni, the same guys who shot down the new look for the mascot after the college spent thousands of dollars on it.


I've been around Linfield for 19 years and this is the 1st time I've heard of P.O.L.E..  However, if this "group" is responsible for shooting down that dumpster fire of a updated mascot that was rolled out then kudos to them.  That thing was hideous and President Hellie made a great decision to send it back to the drawing board.

I never saw the proposed new design for the cat.  However, they didn't shoot it down because of looks, they shot it down because "That cat represents what is good about Linfield Football (said with quivering lip and pointing to ring)".  Also, P.O.L.E. is a bunch of alumni that bankroll Linfield Football and control the purse strings of the entire athletic department.  There is little that the academic portion of Linfield does in regards to the athletic side.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 19, 2013, 05:53:19 PM

Quotewe must be one of the few schools left with a lame cartoon mascot from the 1950's

I see.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ruled the day, postulated by a bunch of wise old men who have been around since THE STREAK started in the '50s.

They were probably some of those crotchity (now) guys who would not step on the chalk line running to their position on that 1966 National Baseball Title team.
Very Superstitious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me4dTKAaEu0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me4dTKAaEu0)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on March 19, 2013, 09:57:30 PM
Those wise old men have turned into grumpy old men who do not recognize the differences in
rules and regulations between the NAIA and the NCAA Division III, especially in terms of financial
aid and recruiting.  All of the coaches have to play by different rules than was the case in the 1950's,
1960's, 1970's and 1980's.  Larry Doty has had to deal with different rules than did Ted Wilson. The College needs to institute stronger controls over the Top Cat Club.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 20, 2013, 01:26:21 AM
567...the most glaring out of step program since the adjustment to DIII has been the basketball program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on March 20, 2013, 02:16:40 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 20, 2013, 01:26:21 AM
567...the most glaring out of step program since the adjustment to DIII has been the basketball program.

Eh, its been messed up since NAIA days too. Like when AD Ad Rutschman would not give Doty another $2,000 in scholarship money to get a 6'10 kid because he said there was no money left.  Then turned in $50,000 dollars back to the college.  Seems to me the deck has been slightly stacked against him since he got on Rutsch's bad side.  So you can say what you want about him being a poor coach, but he did not exactly get to play the game on the same level as everyone else.  And you are part of the perpetuation of this kind of garbage, if Doty had won 5 conference championships in the last 10 years you still would not like him.  It's not about winning and losing its about an old mans grudge.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 20, 2013, 10:23:33 AM
Quoteif Doty had won 5 conference championships in the last 10 years you still would not like him

I do not like the situation, not so much the person.

The other stuff I do not know about.

Logic dictates something happened that one person got on the wrong side of a young All-American football player turned coach who won high school state championships, college football championships, college baseball championships and then became older before elected to the National Football Hall of Fame..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on March 20, 2013, 10:33:38 AM
DOC, Men's basketball has not been the only program to have difficulties since the transition, women's basketball, swimming, women's lacrosse are some others that have struggled.  This you can not
place on Doty.   Oh yes,  Saint Ad, is perfect, never made a mistake in his life. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 21, 2013, 12:27:23 AM
567....if it makes you feel any better I will PM you about who did the tire do-nuts on Rutschman's front lawn that got him so steamed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on March 21, 2013, 10:18:38 AM
I am sorry that physical damage was done to the Rutschman's yard.   Knowing Larry as I do,
I do not believe that he would have anything to do with something like that. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 21, 2013, 12:52:03 PM
Congrats to Wade!!!!  When does the next Gebbers/Taylor come along?  We'll survive, but always best to have one of them around.

SPOKANE, Wash. – Wade Gebbers has been named on a second All-Region team in2012-13, this time by the National Basketball Coaches Association of America.

Gebbers is a second team honoree on the NABC All-West Region team.  Last week he was named to the D3hoops.com All-West Region first team.

Click here for the entire NABC All-Region team.

After battling through persistent injuries to lead the Pirates to the NCAA Division III sweet 16 for the fourth straight year, he averaged 11.4 points and 2.6 rebounds per game and he led the NWC with 95 total assists and 3.5 assists per game.  Gebbers made 40.1% of his shots from the field, 37.2% from three-point range and he ranked among NWC leaders in free throw percentage (85.3).  He scored a career-high 27 points at Whitman on February 5th and had 23 points in the season-opener against now top-ranked St. Thomas.  On Feb. 21 he became the 23rd player in Whitworth history to surpass 1,000-career points and now has 1,064.

A two-time team captain, Gebbers guided the Pirates to a record of 26-4 each of the past two seasons.  Over the course of his four seasons, three as a starter, Whitworth has a cumulative won-loss record of 106-13.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 29, 2013, 11:31:51 AM
Any word on the Linfield coaching job?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on March 29, 2013, 05:26:13 PM
I have not heard anything.  I do know that coaches have asked Larry Doty about
the job, but that is all I know. It would be interesting to know how much he told them about the real situation, as opposed to the spin put on by the College and the Athletic Director.  It will be interesting to see what direction Linfield goes.  I wish I had more confidence that the powers that be will make the right choice.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on April 09, 2013, 11:50:49 AM
Eric Bridgeland will be interviewing for the Linfield job this week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on April 09, 2013, 06:41:40 PM
Quote from: formercat on April 09, 2013, 11:50:49 AM
Eric Bridgeland will be interviewing for the Linfield job this week.

SWIPES!!  However, if by chance Linfield and Bridge can't come to an agreement, how does he go back to Walla Walla and face his team?  Would be kind of an awkward situation
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on April 10, 2013, 04:37:24 PM
Quote from: playball on April 09, 2013, 06:41:40 PM
Quote from: formercat on April 09, 2013, 11:50:49 AM
Eric Bridgeland will be interviewing for the Linfield job this week.

SWIPES!!  However, if by chance Linfield and Bridge can't come to an agreement, how does he go back to Walla Walla and face his team?  Would be kind of an awkward situation

Bridgeland has always struck me as a guy who primarily cares about Bridgeland, so I don't think the prospect of going back and facing his current team (should he not get the Linfield job) would really faze him at all.  He's built a nice program at Whitman with some good recruits coming in next year, so I'd imagine he sees this as a win-win for him.  Essentially, if he doesn't get the job, he stays at Whitman and wins 18-20 games.  If he does get the job, he's going to a sports-crazy (at least by NWC standards) school with better facilities and support than he'll EVER be able to get in Walla Walla.

Personally, I think Bridgeland would be a great villain to stoke the Willamette/Linfield rivalry.  It's been hard to hate on the Wildcats the last few years when they've been one of the only teams WU's been consistently able to beat. :(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on April 10, 2013, 07:10:45 PM
Its been a good rivalry with Linfield receiving the wrong end of a couple buzzer beaters.  Will be fun to see how this turns out!  And I meant how does that team view a coach who just tried to skip out on them if he doesn't get the job.  I have no question that Bridgeland would not care much
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on April 11, 2013, 12:15:47 AM
SPOKANE, Wash. – Whitworth University is 11th in the final D3hoops.com poll of 2012-13.

The Pirates finished 26-4 for the second consecutive season and won their fourth straight outright Northwest Conference championship with a 14-2 record.  Whitworth advanced to the NCAA Division III Sweet 16 for the fourth year in a row and fifth time overall before falling to eventual championship game participant Mary Hardin-Baylor.

There were many individual honors in 2012-13.  Wade Gebbers was named First Team All-Region (D3hoops.com) in addition to First Team All-Northwest Conference.  Dustin McConnell was also a First Team All-NWC honoree, while Colton McCargar was selected Second Team All-NWC.  Taylor Farnsworth received honorable mention consideration for the All-NWC team.

Gebbers, along with fellow four-year letter-winner Mack Larkin, finish with a four-year record of 106-13 (a winning percentage of .891).  No players in Whitworth history have won more games, or won a higher percentage of games, than those two players.

Going back to the 2009-10 season, Whitworth has now been ranked in the D3hoops.com top-25 for 50 consecutive polls.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 14, 2013, 03:40:50 PM
Bridgeland will really have to rub someone the wrong way in his interview to not get that job. No way you pass on a guy who has proven capable of recruiting and winning championships in the NWC.

And you can make that 51 polls since they'll be in the pre-season top 25 to start next year...  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on April 14, 2013, 04:25:33 PM
It would seem like a no-brainer to pick Bridgeland, and I hope Linfield does give him
the job.  Knowing the Athletic Director at Linfield, it would not surprise me that they
would make an unfortunate decision.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on April 15, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 14, 2013, 03:40:50 PM

And you can make that 51 polls since they'll be in the pre-season top 25 to start next year...  ;D

Rat,

Try not to rub it in too much.  Although, being a Whitworth fan reminds me of that Mac Davis song, "Oh Lord it's hard to be humble..."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on April 15, 2013, 05:37:47 PM
So Bridgeland was offered the job at Linfield, but turned it down.  Makes ya wonder how being 40 minutes from Portland and having overall better facilities than Whitman that Linfield could lose out to them?  A birdy from eastern Washington told me Bridgeland would have had to take a substantial pay cut, the money for the program was much less than that at Linfield, and the amount of time he would have had to spend doing other duties that where not related to the program was much greater too. There is also some other juicy rumors out there, but I cannot divulge too much at once.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on April 15, 2013, 08:59:58 PM
I am not surprised that Bridgeland would turn down Linfield's offer.  Nothing is allowed to
challenge football and baseball for funding at Linfield.   I have heard that Greg Garrison,
Linfield alum and former coach at Corvallis High School has received consideration, whether or not he is still in the running I do not know.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 15, 2013, 11:57:22 PM
Before you guys go blaming the basketball budget on the University....I'm sure Doty set up and ran his own banquets, golf events, made his own business contacts and got a lot of his own sponsors all of which generated money just for the basketball program right?

That's what Hayford did. Whitworth (the University itself) has little to do with why the basketball program flies to every game outside of Spokane and Walla Walla. It's why they can schedule tourneys on NYE in NYC, Xmas in Hawaii, multiple trips south and to the midwest in a season, etc. Whitworth's budget is a direct result of the head coach generating revenue for his own program, and hopefully Logie is able to tap many of the same resources...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on April 16, 2013, 12:16:19 AM
Larry did some of what you mentioned, but he never got full cooperation from
the College or the department on getting dates for his camps and other fund raising events.  Plus not having a full-time assistant really limited what he could do.  I do
put a good portion of the lack of budget on the non-cooperation of the Athletic Director and the College for this situation.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on April 16, 2013, 01:23:34 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 15, 2013, 11:57:22 PM
Before you guys go blaming the basketball budget on the University....I'm sure Doty set up and ran his own banquets, golf events, made his own business contacts and got a lot of his own sponsors all of which generated money just for the basketball program right?
Not to take away from anything Hayford did, but Whithworth is the only D3 school and only Gonzaga as the other 4 year institution in a city of 200,000 people. McMinnville is 30,000 people with 4 other schools in the greater Willamette area. Also, Linfield seemed to find 10,000 dollars very quickly when the football team wanted out of there contract with Western Oregon a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on April 16, 2013, 12:33:40 PM

Quote from: formercat on April 16, 2013, 01:23:34 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 15, 2013, 11:57:22 PM
Before you guys go blaming the basketball budget on the University....I'm sure Doty set up and ran his own banquets, golf events, made his own business contacts and got a lot of his own sponsors all of which generated money just for the basketball program right?
Not to take away from anything Hayford did, but Whithworth is the only D3 school and only Gonzaga as the other 4 year institution in a city of 200,000 people. McMinnville is 30,000 people with 4 other schools in the greater Willamette area. Also, Linfield seemed to find 10,000 dollars very quickly when the football team wanted out of there contract with Western Oregon a couple of years ago.

Wait, isn't Lewis and Clark in Portland?  Tacoma's population is 200,000 plus or minus 10k. Not to mention the population the Willamette Valley schools have to draw from in Portland and even Seattle.   The population of Spokane and the city of Spokane itself were more of a hinderance to Hayford than an advantage (calm down Rat--I love Spokane but just stating most people's opinion). 

Maybe Bridgeland used Linfield for a little leverage.  Wouldn't be the first coach to use an interview at another school to get what he wants back home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on April 17, 2013, 12:40:18 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on April 16, 2013, 12:33:40 PM
Maybe Bridgeland used Linfield for a little leverage.  Wouldn't be the first coach to use an interview at another school to get what he wants back home.

Had Linfield been able to give Bridgeland the equivelant of what he had at Whitman, I think he leaves Whitman.  Since Linfield did not, I do agree with your statement that he ended up using the opportunity for leverage.

Also, not sure with what Lewis and Clark and the Tacoma schools have to do with the population size of McMinnville. The larger the population the greater chance to pull sponsorship money from surrounding businesses was my point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on April 17, 2013, 11:49:01 AM
Formercat,

    I was commenting on the Portland and Tacoma schools because you seemed to be suggesting that Hayford's success was due to being in wonderful and populous Spokane.  Every school has it's geographic and situational advantages and disadvantages.  I don't think that Linfield is that bad geographically--especially compared to Whitworth.  No snow to speak of at Linfield.  Twice as many people within a 50 mile radius.  Located in a small town with a nice down town area that is easy access for the students, etc.  You might not have the money Whitman has, but you aren't out in the middle of no where and there seem to be plenty of great football coaches that have worked there and believe me, they weren't there for the money.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 17, 2013, 10:39:06 PM
Don't worry A Buc, I didn't take any offense. Eastern Washington is what it is...and that's 2 semi-metropolitan areas (Spokane and the Tri-Cities), with nothing else that's within a 5 hour drive. Whitworth has done a good job of getting quality players from central and eastern wa over the years, but those guys have been a small part of why Whitworth has been so successful.

Don't think you have good players near Linfield? Then why will two of your state's best d3 prospects be up in Spokane next fall to play basketball? The new Whitworth staff seems to like Portland just fine.

As for your birdy, just say coach casey told you about Bridgeland's reservations. Remember us Whitworth fans know who he is  :)

The Linfield football contract is weak too. They did what EVERY other NWC school has done (and for the record they were very late to the party as WC11 would probably tell you) which is get rid of non-d3 teams on the schedule. Ask the guys on the 2007 Whitworth team what losing to an NAIA team can do to your playoff hopes....even when you are the champ of one of the better conferences in the country. You HAVE to do whatever you can to schedule non-conference d-3 games which isn't easy in the NWC. So the $10k investment led to a playoff run and 80+ incoming freshman who may not have come to your school otherwise. 80 x $35k...I'm no mathematician but that's a butt load of money for the UNIVERSITY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on April 18, 2013, 12:09:01 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 17, 2013, 10:39:06 PM
The Linfield football contract is weak too. They did what EVERY other NWC school has done (and for the record they were very late to the party as WC11 would probably tell you) which is get rid of non-d3 teams on the schedule. Ask the guys on the 2007 Whitworth team what losing to an NAIA team can do to your playoff hopes....even when you are the champ of one of the better conferences in the country. You HAVE to do whatever you can to schedule non-conference d-3 games which isn't easy in the NWC. So the $10k investment led to a playoff run and 80+ incoming freshman who may not have come to your school otherwise. 80 x $35k...I'm no mathematician but that's a butt load of money for the UNIVERSITY.

Amen. That 10K WOU buyout wound up being a fantastic move by Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on April 18, 2013, 01:46:34 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on April 18, 2013, 12:09:01 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 17, 2013, 10:39:06 PM
The Linfield football contract is weak too. They did what EVERY other NWC school has done (and for the record they were very late to the party as WC11 would probably tell you) which is get rid of non-d3 teams on the schedule. Ask the guys on the 2007 Whitworth team what losing to an NAIA team can do to your playoff hopes....even when you are the champ of one of the better conferences in the country. You HAVE to do whatever you can to schedule non-conference d-3 games which isn't easy in the NWC. So the $10k investment led to a playoff run and 80+ incoming freshman who may not have come to your school otherwise. 80 x $35k...I'm no mathematician but that's a butt load of money for the UNIVERSITY.

Amen. That 10K WOU buyout wound up being a fantastic move by Linfield.

When money seems to be tight in an athletic department, that 10k is a bit of change to change hands.  Rat, you say 80 student athletes wouldn't come to Linfield IF we were to lose to Western?  Fat chance, kids are flocking to the school for football for thee "streak" alone.  Also, what does fulfilling a contract have to do with playoffs when you are winning the conference on a regular basis?  But this is a basketball board.  And the basketball team at Linfield missed out on a good coach for whatever reasons which is too bad since I believe that Bridgeland could have turned it around for the team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on April 18, 2013, 02:06:48 AM
Quote from: playball on April 18, 2013, 01:46:34 AM
When money seems to be tight in an athletic department, that 10k is a bit of change to change hands.  Rat, you say 80 student athletes wouldn't come to Linfield IF we were to lose to Western?  Fat chance, kids are flocking to the school for football for thee "streak" alone.  Also, what does fulfilling a contract have to do with playoffs when you are winning the conference on a regular basis?  But this is a basketball board.  And the basketball team at Linfield missed out on a good coach for whatever reasons which is too bad since I believe that Bridgeland could have turned it around for the team.

After the 'Cats 2009 final four playoff run Linfield brought in their largest recruiting class in program history.  The second largest class was after the 2004 National Title.  Success in the playoffs has a direct impact in the interest in a program.  Rat is 100% correct.  Buying out that WOU game and replacing with Occidental (a top 25 DIII at the time) allowed Linfield to secure an 8th DIII game (they played SOU in 2009) and helped secure more home playoff games when Linfield went undefeated in the regular season that year.  Again, it was a good move.

Quote from: playball on April 18, 2013, 01:46:34 AM
And the basketball team at Linfield missed out on a good coach for whatever reasons which is too bad since I believe that Bridgeland could have turned it around for the team.

100% agree.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on April 18, 2013, 10:22:47 AM
It is too bad that the Linfield Athletic Department will not spend a few extra dollars to make all sports competitive.  The sacred god of football has to have everything.  It also time for Linfield to hire an Athletic Director that is not a football coach or a baseball coach. The best thing for the College would be for the streak in Football to end.  Some humility would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on April 18, 2013, 06:33:27 PM
What happened with Hironaka at Linfield?  I heard he interviewed also.  His resume is as good or better than Bridgeland's.  Getting him would not be a step down from Bridgeland--one could argue a step up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison on April 19, 2013, 12:33:22 PM
I don't think that having the streak end would make a difference to how Linfield chooses to support it's athletic programs. If anything it would create more of a focus on how to never have it happen again thus perhaps making things worse. It is my belief that having to go through the hiring process for a new men's basketball coach is going to be an eye opening experience for the athletic department. Any new coach is going to have a laundry list of basic requests to be in place prior to taking the job.  Chief among them has to be a clear way of funding at least one full time assistant. Another would be for the new coach to be able to concentrate his energies 90% on coaching and recruiting and 10% on other duties.

It has been my belief that Linfield should be competing for national championships in football, basketball, and baseball on an annual basis. Success in one should translate in part to success in all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: old_hooper on April 19, 2013, 01:22:02 PM
I have been following the comments regarding the Lindfield coaching vacancy.  Really seems a little odd about the situation.  Know of players that have played for Doty.  If the school has a chance to get a coach of Hironoka experience, it would be rather foolish not to do it.  If it is true the athletic department is allowing football to interfere with this decision what a disservice to the players, students and Lindfield College community.  Any qualified candidate will have an agenda for their success and if the opportunity does not afford them that, why would they want to get involved?  Perhaps the football coaches should also coach basketball if it is that high of a priority.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on April 19, 2013, 08:35:08 PM
Linfield just announced the new Men's Basketball Coach for the Wildcats.  Shanan Rosenberg, Head Coach at Foothill College in California, has accepted the position.  According to the press release, he was Assistant Head Coach at Lewis & Clark College from 1998 to 2002.  His record at Foothill College was 186-131, with his 2012-13 team going 22-5, the best regular season record in program history.  Sounds very promising.  Welcome Coach Rosenberg.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 21, 2013, 03:01:37 PM
Foothill College is a juco, so it's a completely different ball of wax. Success at that level doesn't necessarily translate into success at any of the four-year-college levels. However, I did notice that Rosenberg was the assistant at Lewis & Clark under Bob Gaillard when the Pioneers were a national power with Davis, Mietus, Oriard, Speier, and that crew, a team I remember well from seeing them play in the sectionals. I'm more impressed by that, because it means that he's been a part of, and is familiar with, the sort of team that it takes to dominate at the D3 level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on April 21, 2013, 04:24:29 PM
I would agree with you that success at the Junior College level does not automatically translate to success in the four year college level, NCAA I, II or III and NAIA. All I was saying is that he has experience in situations that will be helpful at Linfield, which to me sounds very promising. Having experience in the Northwest Conference is definitely a plus.  It appears that he did not have a lot of resources at Foothill College and turned that program into a very competitive program.  That is also helpful coming to Linfield, a school that has not been very generous in supporting sports other than football and baseball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on April 22, 2013, 05:41:52 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 17, 2013, 10:39:06 PM
Don't think you have good players near Linfield? Then why will two of your state's best d3 prospects be up in Spokane next fall to play basketball? The new Whitworth staff seems to like Portland just fine.

The Linfield football contract is weak too. They did what EVERY other NWC school has done (and for the record they were very late to the party as WC11 would probably tell you) which is get rid of non-d3 teams on the schedule. Ask the guys on the 2007 Whitworth team what losing to an NAIA team can do to your playoff hopes....even when you are the champ of one of the better conferences in the country. You HAVE to do whatever you can to schedule non-conference d-3 games which isn't easy in the NWC. So the $10k investment led to a playoff run and 80+ incoming freshman who may not have come to your school otherwise. 80 x $35k...I'm no mathematician but that's a butt load of money for the UNIVERSITY.

To address from your first comment, my comments made about Linfield near Portland were never made in relation to getting players from the area, Buc somehow turned it in to that.  My comment was in response to another made about Hayford's fundraising and how I feel it is more advantageous to get support in a city of 200,000 people as in compared to 30,000. Buc somehow read something else from that and then you ran with it.

Your second comment I agree with completely, but when the basketball team asked for money to travel, so they would not have to play NAIA teams Doty was denied. 

Oh, and I have more contacts in Eastern Washington than Kushiyama.   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on April 24, 2013, 01:45:54 PM
Formercat, 

I didn't turn your comment around on you. I just don't get your issue that it is hard to get support/players/fans in a town of 30,000 surrounded by a metropolitan area of over 2.5 million (Spokane's metropolitan area population is less than half a million). 

Can you explain who Kushiyama is?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on April 24, 2013, 04:40:05 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on April 24, 2013, 01:45:54 PM
Formercat, 

I didn't turn your comment around on you. I just don't get your issue that it is hard to get support/players/fans in a town of 30,000 surrounded by a metropolitan area of over 2.5 million (Spokane's metropolitan area population is less than half a million). 

Can you explain who Kushiyama is?

Yes I think it is going to be harder to get financial support from businesses from the other cities that make up the 2.5 million metropolitan when there are 4 other NWC schools in the different towns, 2 Division I schools and 3 NAIA schools in the area also (I am counting Salem too).  Is a business in Newberg going to provide financial support to Linfield instead of George Fox? How would that look to the residents in town? Are businesses in Portland more likely to sponsor Linfield or PSU, U of P, Lewis & Clark, Warner Pac., or Concordia?  Those businesses are trying to appeal to their publics, which are people who live in their cities.  The public of Spokane can support either Gonzage or Whitworth.  Maybe Eastern Washinton? See what I am saying? Do you still think that is not an advantage?  Not that Whitworth should not take an advantage of such an opportunity.

Kushiyama is Casey Kushiyama, an assistant on the Women's team at Whitman and played college ball at Linfield College. He is who Rat thinks I got my Bridgeland info from, but Rat does not know that Bridgeland has some friend in Eastern Washington that I also know.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on June 25, 2013, 10:14:33 PM
Willamette's aging Lestle J. Sparks Center is getting an extensive, much needed renovation this summer, including a vastly expanded weight room, and (eventually) new locker rooms for all Bearcat programs that use Sparks, including men's and women's basketball.  A photo gallery of the project (updated weekly) can be found HERE (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151477249268067.1073741831.64674138066&type=1), while details of the renovation can be found at http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/facilities/sparks_renovation/index.php
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on June 28, 2013, 02:19:53 AM
More changes in the NWC this offseason, as 2012-13 NWC Coach of the Year Mark Sundquist steps down at Fox:

http://athletics.georgefox.edu/sports/mbkb/2012-13/releases/0627
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on June 30, 2013, 01:42:42 AM
That's not good for GF...has to be a tough place to sell to most HS kids. But then again the bar hasn't been set very high
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on August 31, 2013, 03:14:31 PM
Whitworth officially announces incoming class:

7 Freshman and a new coach (http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/releases/20130830b54wch)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on September 05, 2013, 07:03:54 PM
Rat:

No JC transfers.  Does WW have enough left off of last year's team minus the graduates to dominate, remain on top, or fall off?  Is this the year the rest of the league catches up to them?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on October 10, 2013, 12:23:17 AM
Playball,

Any word on the new coach?  Thumbs up or down?  He seemed well respected in the Bay Area.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 29, 2013, 03:19:03 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on September 05, 2013, 07:03:54 PM
Rat:

No JC transfers.  Does WW have enough left off of last year's team minus the graduates to dominate, remain on top, or fall off?  Is this the year the rest of the league catches up to them?

I don't think anyone in the conference thinks Whitworth will fall off. They return McConnell, McCargar, Valle, and Farnsworth. Word on the street from people who have watched a few practices is that this may turn out to be the deepest team Whitworth has ever had. I guess the Freshman class has a couple of studs that may contribute right away. Like most people I was a bit worried about not having that all-american, go-to scorer that the Pirates had in the past under Hayford, but Logie's teams seem to be just fine without one. They'll continue to play tough defense, be efficient on offense and I don't see why Logie and his staff won't continue to out-scheme opponents. I don't think anyone has closed the gap between Whitworth and the rest of the NWC.

I don't know how they'll fare against UW-SP, but it'll be good for the guys to see some early competition against one of the better teams and programs in the country.

Although, the alumni game could be, depending on who shows up, by far the most talented team they see all season...  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 01, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
Watching this basketball thing grow has been fun...

Whitworth Midnight Madness Promo (http://youtu.be/g5hAJcjVqTE)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 04, 2013, 01:42:52 PM
The Pirates beat their alumni this year. Always a good start. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 06, 2013, 09:41:00 PM
Excited to see new energy at Linfield! Sounds like he has brought in some guys and is recruiting difference makers..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 10, 2013, 12:29:48 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 04, 2013, 01:42:52 PM
The Pirates beat their alumni this year. Always a good start.


Most talented team they'll see all season.

And that's without Michael Taylor, Felix, Pecht...etc
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 13, 2013, 01:05:32 PM
Pacific got beat by Eastern Washington University (http://www.ewuhoops.blogspot.com).  I see they are picked to finish in the middle of the conference.  They lost a lot of their scoring.  Not sure how strong they will be.  Whitman should be tough this year.  Most likely team team to unseat WW. The most interesting story will be how big a difference a new coach makes at Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on November 13, 2013, 06:18:13 PM
Lutes are at Portland State tonight.  Video link is on the PS page, offered through the Big Sky network which is free and always a pain to use but it does work.  Once you sign up and/or sign in it doesn't automatically place you at the game you originally linked in to - you've got to find your way to the player and once you've done that all the Big Sky games of the night should be listed and you select your game.

http://www.goviks.com/index.aspx?path=mbball
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 15, 2013, 10:42:41 PM
Whitworth beat Trinity (TX) 71-53 in Tacoma

Best part? Leading scorers were two newcomers, both freshmen. Kenny Love had 15 and Christian Jurlina added 12. Wilkes and Farnsworth finished with 10 apiece.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 16, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
I wouldn't normally quote myself, but ...

Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 22, 2013, 04:07:11 PM
I hate to be the pessimist here, but barring the arrival of some outstanding freshmen or transfers, the Bearcats could be shockingly bad next year.  We lose our top three scorers (Malley, Babcock-Krenk, Dart), and our top three-point shooter (Hughes).  That's four starters gone off a 7-18, 4-10 team that lost eight straight to close the season.  Yuck.

Caltech 58, Willamette 55.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 16, 2013, 07:31:37 AM
The first part of the recap of the Willamette game:

PASADENA, CA – Coming down to the game's final possessions, Caltech charged back for a thrilling season opening 58-55 win over Willamette on Friday evening.

It is the first season opening win for a Beavers squad since the 2004-05 season. Furthermore, it is the programs first season opening win against an NCAA opponent since the 1948-49 campaign.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 16, 2013, 07:41:57 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 15, 2013, 10:42:41 PM
Whitworth beat Trinity (TX) 71-53 in Tacoma

Best part? Leading scorers were two newcomers, both freshmen. Kenny Love had 15 and Christian Jurlina added 12. Wilkes and Farnsworth finished with 10 apiece.

Have to agree with Rat here. Kenny Love is an awesome recruit.  Lead his team in high school to a Northern Cal championship over a WCAL team. That is a ridiculously tough high school league in the Bay Area.  First game as a freshman and he's already making a huge contribution. Jurlina is an Australian with lots of high level experience.  With these 2 plus Valle I think Logie is showing he can find players that will continue Whitworth's run of success.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 16, 2013, 02:41:57 PM
Bearcat:

OUCH!

"I am - and always will be - a Willamette guy."  This year may really challenge this for you.  Keep the faith.  Everyone, except the Whitworth faithful, has been here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on November 16, 2013, 03:49:24 PM
I realize a loss to Caltech is not the way any team wants to start the year given Caltechs reputation and record over the past few years (decades?). Before Willamette fans start throwing in the towel on the season, Caltech has an insanely good freshman class and are a much better team than they have ever been.  Give it a few games before calling the season a failure ...Willamette didn't play all that poorly last night.

Willamette at La Verne and Pacific at  Caltech tonight. La Verne has a good freshman class as well from what little I've heard. Caltech will be hitting the boards and scrapping away, if they can limit their turnovers they could be right in this game as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 18, 2013, 11:04:16 AM
I'm liking the start for the Linfield Wildcats.. A good 1-2. (Counting the loss to WOU).  Portland Bible is a good team and would compete in the NWC. Am very glad we've got new energy and direction for the program and am expecting big things in the future. If Pacific can build a playoff caliber team in 4 years of football I would bet Linfield can do it in 2 years in hoops.  Figure we can get the athletes into the school both financially and academically considering we already do for football, baseball, and softball. We've got great facilities.. Strong support is there just hasn't had anything to cheer the last 8 years... No reason we won't be challenging Whitworth for conference titles soon.

Very glad we didn't make the mistake of hiring that jerk from Whitman. He might win but he wouldn't have been fit for our culture (understanding that football is the sacred cow)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 18, 2013, 11:20:22 AM
My OR teams suffering from some KEY injuries before the season even started....

Danny Brakebush is out for the year with a knee injury.  I would blame the floor, coach, or air in the gym, but this one took place before the season started.  With the recruits PU have coming in, this is a big loss, one of their key players, and a team that has been on the rise since Cleary got there just lost a little momentum.

Andrew Batuik was at LC last night, in street clothes.  Apparently, he is also injured, lost for the season, and has dropped school for the year to recuperate and save money for a gray-shirt (I think that is the definition of gray-shirt) season.  The Linfield fans there last night say Rosenberg is the real deal, and will be one of the top coaches in the league in no time.  Watch out for the Wildcats later in the season, it will take a little while.  Not a title contender, but may make some noise.

LC lost a freshmen expected to see some time this season in the first 3 minutes of his career with a broken arm, out 6-8 weeks.  They also have a 6-9 soph transfer on the bench who is expected to get big minutes.  I couldn't find out why he is not suited now, but is on the roster, so it appears he will be playing this year.  The outside shooting last night was good, and will have to be.  Their bigs (not real big) played 22 minutes, combined.  They have no inside game and will suffer mightily form teams that do.  Same ol' LC, live by the 3, die by the 3.  But they are scrappy and energetic, at least at this time. 

Also,  GF put up some big numbers under new coach Hamilton, winning their first two games by 20 in CA.  Certainly not a bad way to start with a new coach! 

4 really good, middle-of-the-pack teams.  The top tier still appears to be in WA.  Dam!


WWWildcat:

I agree with everything you said, except the comments about Portland Bible.  Probably would compete with Wil, but not sure about the rest of the league.  I would not say a good team, but not horrible either.

Woost:

Sorry, I can't see that optimism.  See Bearcat comments below.  Following a bad season with a marginal recruiting class equals....See Bearcat comments below.  But losing to LaVene by only 6 is a more positive result.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 18, 2013, 01:54:04 PM
RE Portland Bible.. I've reffed them 3 times this year and a bunch of times over the past 2-3 years... last year they beat UPS, lost a close one to Lewis and Clark, beat Pacific.. This year they have some really good athletes.. their point guard is probably the best athlete on the floor at the DIII, NAIA, or NAACC level... I'd put them middle of the NWC but lower in the Cascade.  They are young but talented... Don't have much height but play well with what they've got.  Heck, a guy from their team last year is on the Carolina Panthers roster at tight end..

I'm okay with Batuik sitting out this year as that basically gives us a good 2 years with him plus new recruits for 14-15... which makes our "recruiting" class all that much stronger.  Rather than have him burn a year of eligibility during a rebuilding year..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on November 18, 2013, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 18, 2013, 11:20:22 AM


Woost:

Sorry, I can't see that optimism.  See Bearcat comments below.  Following a bad season with a marginal recruiting class equals....See Bearcat comments below.  But losing to LaVene by only 6 is a more positive result.

You certainly could be right -- I've only seen these teams play once.  But I will say that while Pacific blew out Caltech the following night (which certainly favors your point of view), Willamette fared just as well against La Verne as Pacific did.  From what I saw in the two Caltech games, Pacific and Willamette playing a tight game seems plausible.

....only time will tell.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 19, 2013, 09:49:06 AM
Wow--lots of key injuries in the league.  The losses at Linfield and Pacific are huge. Sorry to see that. I was hoping to see those programs be more competitive this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 20, 2013, 02:47:04 AM
Batiuk needed the year off, had surgery on both feet in the spring.  It was smart to give those dogs ample time to heal because bad feet can become a real problem for big men.  Also, getting the best scorer in the NWC back next year will make for a great addition to hopefully another solid recruiting class.  Saw LC blow out Portland Bible, sorry WWWildcat PB cannot pass or dribble. Linfield hung tough against Old Westbury a team that was way longer and more athletic then them and did surprisingly well on the boards given those disadvantages.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on November 20, 2013, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on November 16, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 22, 2013, 04:07:11 PM
I hate to be the pessimist here, but barring the arrival of some outstanding freshmen or transfers, the Bearcats could be shockingly bad next year. 
Caltech 58, Willamette 55.

Quote from: WoostAr on November 16, 2013, 03:49:24 PM
Before Willamette fans start throwing in the towel on the season, Caltech has an insanely good freshman class and are a much better team than they have ever been.  Give it a few games before calling the season a failure 

Take it from me, if your team loses to Caltech then your team is shockingly bad. You can never wash off that stink.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 20, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Oxy:

Where did you get all the positive Karma?  I can see the minus Karma, though!   :)    Harsh!

Former:

Do you have a take on the new coach?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on November 20, 2013, 12:55:29 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 20, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Oxy:

Where did you get all the positive Karma?  I can see the minus Karma, though!   :)    Harsh!


Don't mind him, he's just upset that this happened to his team.  http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6170690


Time will tell with Willamette...I'm not saying they're going to set the world on fire...I think they are on par (or not all that far behind) Pacific.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on November 20, 2013, 02:20:08 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 20, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Harsh!

Wait until I get started on Chapman.

Gets old with WoostAr continually describing Caltech as if the Beavers are some kind of juggernaut.

Fact: Willamette lost to Caltech. Therefore, the Bearcats are really bad. On the other hand, nowhere to go but up.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on November 20, 2013, 10:12:57 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 20, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Oxy:

Where did you get all the positive Karma?  I can see the minus Karma, though!   :)    Harsh!

You should see Bob on a bad day.  If you get a chance to hear him as a color man on Oxy games, he is excellent.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2013, 10:31:39 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on November 20, 2013, 02:20:08 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 20, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Harsh!

Wait until I get started on Chapman.

Gets old with WoostAr continually describing Caltech as if the Beavers are some kind of juggernaut.

Fact: Willamette lost to Caltech. Therefore, the Bearcats are really bad. On the other hand, nowhere to go but up.

OxyBob

TryMeTeam,

You've got to get used to OB.  He is kind of like a wart you get used to.  He still does not admit that Chapman is a member of the SCIAC (even though all the other schools accepted Chapman).  It's kind of tough, but if you go past his faults, he's kind of a witty guy.  (But if Caltech goes 15-10 [they won't ;)] he would still rag on them.)  He sometimes has trouble with current reality.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on November 21, 2013, 01:48:39 PM
Ypsi,
I actually attended a Caltech game with him, and it wasn't against Oxy.  He knows everyone in the stands and many of the coaches.  I think he wants to meet all posters (except Snoop Dawg).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 22, 2013, 01:03:47 AM
Browsing through the scores this season and I am not sure what to make of it yet.  I like Whitworth's start by beating the alumni and Trinity, but Trinity dropped one to PLU and then beat UPS--not sure if that Trinity is quite the same team they were last year.  PLU also beat Schreiner (no clue what they are like). LC has some good wins (Old Westbury looks like a great win).  Whitman and Linfield lost to Old Westbury.   Could this be the year PLU an LC start challenging for the top? My guess so far is that WW is still going to win it all. LC  may be second. PLU and Whitman round out the playoff teams.  Lots of distance between these 4 and the rest of the league. Linfield vs UPS race to the bottom.

I know it's early, but gotta get something going here. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 22, 2013, 02:06:02 AM
Buc, I'm starting to think you have a vendetta against Linfield.

Here is my prediction that I like to make ridiculously early so when my picks are WAY off I can point to when I picked them, or on the flip side say "WOW, look what I knew way back THEN!"

1)WW
2)Everyone else.

Just kidding.

1) WW
2)L&C (Worst place to play in the history of basketball, almost makes you think that watching a game up there is a form of punishment for their students.)
3)Whitman (Bridgeland scares the officials into giving him calls)
4)Linfield (Tough and Griity=? I hope so.  I have them here because they are my Alma Mater)
5)PLU
6)George Fox (People figure out what they are doing and they fall off in the 2nd half)
7)UPS
8)Pacific (Injuries)
9)Willamette (Cal-tech...REALL?!?!?!  :o    ???


On a side note, Im looking forward to listening to the UPS game Vs. Linfield just to possibly hear "Shark to Bates, the crowd goes wild"  I don't know, makes me laugh playing it out in my head ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 22, 2013, 11:45:26 AM
Playball:

I like your first prediction best!

I wonder, for a guy that has quite often said, LC has no inside game, they just shoot the 3, I am surprised you didn't lower their ranking for this factor.

I saw them against Old Westbury, and they didn't go inside almost at all.  Is the lack of a big man in the league your reason?

I hope they continue to do well, but the old saying, Live by the 3..... comes to mind again.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 22, 2013, 12:31:03 PM
Home opener in Spokane tonight, you guys!

Don't know much about Old Westbury. They seem like a strong program that returned some talent, but they also lost to L&C. Whitworth has been led by two newcomers in the box score which could be problematic...if they didn't have such a solid core of veterans.

The fieldhouse is going to be rockin tonight. Hope any of the Old Westbury fans (parents) who make the trip have a great experience. Just not great enough that they come away with a W  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 22, 2013, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on November 22, 2013, 11:45:26 AM
Playball:

I like your first prediction best!

I wonder, for a guy that has quite often said, LC has no inside game, they just shoot the 3, I am surprised you didn't lower their ranking for this factor.

I saw them against Old Westbury, and they didn't go inside almost at all.  Is the lack of a big man in the league your reason?

I hope they continue to do well, but the old saying, Live by the 3..... comes to mind again.

Very true, but that was also when bigs were a little easier to find in the conference.  The way the conference seems to be now is very very guard oriented making it easier for lc to get away with such a small lineup.  Yeah, some teams have players over 6'8" but show me a team that has one consistently able to score or block shots.  Or even yet if he is skilled, show me a team that will utilize him efficiently and effectively.  Good passing guards coupled with a big man and you have a nice little team.  In my recent memory, I can think of only WW who had that kind of mix.  LC will be the best of the littles.  Still garbage in my book, but it is what it is.  Plus lc has that home court advantage since pamplin just sucks the life right out of you.  Dark campus, no fans, cold dimly lit gym and voila! Asleep.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 22, 2013, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: playball on November 22, 2013, 02:06:02 AM
Buc, I'm starting to think you have a vendetta against Linfield.



Sibling rivalry

I agree with Playball about the lack of good big men in the league lately.  The Whits probably have the best big men--probably shouldn't bet against Whitman to finish 2nd--the coaches aren't dumb.

I heard from the new Linfield coach's friend that the new coach is looking at success the football and baseball programs have and that he should be able to replicate that.  We will see if he can do it.  I hope WW can replicate their basketball success on the football field.  They are looking for a new coach now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 23, 2013, 02:37:25 AM
Whitworth won 86-74

Kenny Love had 24 to lead the Pirates. Don't worry NWC folks, you only have to put up with him for 4 years...

Sounds like Old Westbury has a stud or two and made a nice little run later in the 2nd half to pull within 6, but Whitworth was just a little too much (and had the always reliable Fieldhouse Advantage).

Logie is one of, if not the best coach in the NWC already. They are more talented than the rest of the league (still). They have plenty of experience to not get rattled when the opponent makes a run. Good luck to the rest of the conference knocking Whitworth from the top. Can't see it happening any time soon and I'm perfectly ok with that   :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 23, 2013, 03:58:09 AM
I've only seen Kenny Love's high school highlight tape, but he must be the real deal.  We will see how he responds when he's scouted, etc., but we may have a strong player for four years--awesome.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 24, 2013, 01:44:54 AM
Watched WW lose to Colorado College online while watching Oregon State lose to UW on TV.  My youngest sprained his ankle in basketball practice to boot.  Depressing day. 

Liked WW's defense, but they didn't shoot well. 

On another note--is Cal Tech for real?  Stayed close to Linfield.  Willamette stayed closed to CSM.  Maybe Cal Tech are at the level of being consistently competitive.   That would be great to see.  Cal Tech and MIT are probably the most academically rigorous schools in the nation. Getting in is near impossible and the academic expectations are unbelievable.  Those guys being competitive on the court is inspiring. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 24, 2013, 02:55:59 AM
If tonight's offensive struggle vs. Colorado College is any indication, this could be an interesting year for the Bucs. After being spoiled for so long, I still think we're the class of the league, but the gap is shrinking. One problem, to me, seems to be that after years of having a go-to post when the team is struggling shooting like they were tonight (21-58 from the floor, 5-23 from 3 and 68% from the FT line), we don't have that post anymore. It seems that Logie is very good at developing guards, but with the way it seems Farnsworth is currently playing, I'm curious if he can develop posts like Hayford could (Montgomery, Friedt, etc.). The other thing is that, despite basically playing four guards and a post, they too often settle down into half court sets and not running in transition.

A lighthearted moment at the game was when SUNY-Old Westbury's team joined the Bucs' student section, taking pictures and videos, and doing the chants with the students. It seemed they had never seen that kind of support before and wanted to join in! They even got the students to do the "left, right, left, right" foul out chant for them as they walked out of the Fieldhouse at halftime. SUNY-OW was a fun team to watch because of their length and athleticism, which hurt UPS down the stretch tonight. Best of luck to them the rest of their season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 25, 2013, 01:14:07 AM
For those who have been asking questions about Coach Rosenberg at Linfield, I'll tell you that I have talked to him several times and I like him and his coaching philosophy and Linfield should be competitive.  I would anticipate that Linfield will be in most conference games with a chance to win.  That said, money supporting the program is going to continue to be an obstacle for him and one that I hope he can over come.  Found out a week ago from another NWC coach that Linfield basketball officially has the smallest budget in the conference, at the NWC coaches meeting they showed the budgets for all the schools.  Whitman, Willamette, and Whitworth on top, Linfield on the bottom.  The coach found it shocking and comical at how small our budget was and he isn't even a coach of one of those top 3 teams. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on November 25, 2013, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 24, 2013, 01:44:54 AM

On another note--is Cal Tech for real?  Stayed close to Linfield.  Willamette stayed closed to CSM.  Maybe Cal Tech are at the level of being consistently competitive.   That would be great to see.  Cal Tech and MIT are probably the most academically rigorous schools in the nation. Getting in is near impossible and the academic expectations are unbelievable.  Those guys being competitive on the court is inspiring.

Caltech got a great freshman class with some junior leadership (no seniors) -- only 3 returning players on the team.  They are still learning to play together and turn the ball over a bit too much, but there is a lot of hope around Caltech that this team could be competitive in the near future.  They play Whitman on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 25, 2013, 08:59:30 PM
I'm not so concerned about how small the budget is for men's basketball at Linfeld right now. Keep in mind that there was obviously a highly toxic relationship between the AD and the prior coach... For whatever reason.. And it had been in existence for a long, long time. That had to heavily weigh in any funding decisions.  There are other ways to generate revenue with the mst likely being summer camps. The football program has to make a ton of money from their camps... Men's basketball should be able to have some success there.

I would say that funding will come with success.  There are many more well heeled alumni who have waited out the prior staff and will be willing to contribute as long as the new coach is committed and patient.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 25, 2013, 09:31:41 PM
Busy with football, but I might even take in LINFIELD down in Las Vegas.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 26, 2013, 12:56:27 AM
Quote from: formercat on November 25, 2013, 01:14:07 AM
Found out a week ago from another NWC coach that Linfield basketball officially has the smallest budget in the conference, at the NWC coaches meeting they showed the budgets for all the schools.  Whitman, Willamette, and Whitworth on top

Hmm ...  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0ftfKFEJg)  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 26, 2013, 03:20:22 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on November 26, 2013, 12:56:27 AM
Quote from: formercat on November 25, 2013, 01:14:07 AM
Found out a week ago from another NWC coach that Linfield basketball officially has the smallest budget in the conference, at the NWC coaches meeting they showed the budgets for all the schools.  Whitman, Willamette, and Whitworth on top

Hmm ...  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0ftfKFEJg)  ::)

Bearcat, were you trying to say that Linfield is the biggest baddest shoe compared to the other average shoes? Because if so, you are right!

Walla Walla Wildcat, why would "well heeled alumni wait out the prior staff"?  To me, that doesn't make much sense.  To me, I was hoping the prior staff would wait out the demise of the bitterness of an old man that governs over the athletic department. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 26, 2013, 11:30:32 AM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on November 25, 2013, 08:59:30 PM
There are many more well heeled alumni who have waited out the prior staff and will be willing to contribute as long as the new coach is committed and patient.

Well I hope they stop holding back their donation money when they are winnning because extra money was not coming Coach Doty's way after he won two conference championships.  Although, stop holding out your donation money regardless of wins and losses, the more money Rosenberg has to work with the more successful he can be.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on November 26, 2013, 01:48:48 PM
Quote from: formercat on November 26, 2013, 11:30:32 AM
Well I hope they stop holding back their donation money when they are winnning because extra money was not coming Coach Doty's way after he won two conference championships.  Although, stop holding out your donation money regardless of wins and losses, the more money Rosenberg has to work with the more successful he can be.

There's generally - but not always - a correlation between spending money on the program and success.  Willamette over the last several years proves that.

I bet if someone were to do a cost per wins analysis for each program over the last three years (i.e. amount of money spent divided by the number of wins), Willamette would come out with the highest amount spent per win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 26, 2013, 07:06:32 PM
I've read several vague and not so vague references to a "bitter old man" in relation to Linfield Athletics.  If the person referred to as a "bitter old man" is Ad Rutschman then someone needs to seriously sober up.  If Coach Rutschman has/had an issue with a person it was most likely highly deserved.  I do not know of many alumni of Linfield, both students and football players, who after having dealings with Coach have nothing but respect and admiration for him.  I do not believe that the same can be said for the prior head coach of Linfield's men's basketball.  The prior coach carried himself with an arrogance which while well deserved as an athlete was never earned as a basketball coach.

In the NWC Linfield stands alone in the ability to get athletes into school.  It is one of the less expensive NWC schools.  It has a higher admission rate.  It views potential students as more than their GPA and SAT score.  And it has a proud history of highly successful football, basketball, and baseball programs that date back forever.  When all of these factors are combined there is no reason why the men's basketball program shouldn't be in the Top 3 in the NWC and Top 25 in the nation every year.  We do it in football and baseball and if people think that the only reason why we aren't successful in basketball is because of funding then I'd suggest rethinking that as an excuse.

I fully expect the new coach to have Linfield's men's program turned around in short order.  With that said, if he is unable to turn around the program I'd be more willing to listen to criticism regarding the athletic department and its support for basketball. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 29, 2013, 01:28:02 PM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on November 26, 2013, 07:06:32 PM
In the NWC Linfield stands alone in the ability to get athletes into school.  It is one of the less expensive NWC schools.  It has a higher admission rate.  It views potential students as more than their GPA and SAT score.

Read: not as rigorous academically as the rest of the conference or easier to get into for the average high school student or has very little to offer the non-athlete therefore less total applicants than the rest of the NWC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 30, 2013, 01:57:20 AM
Walla Walla, keep drinking the kool-aid.  Obviously you haven't been around campus or know how things work there anymore.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 30, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
Whitworth takes on Carleton College today. Carleton will be another good non-conference matchup. They opened the season with a loss to Wartburg but made it to the conference championship game in a MIAC conference that's been tough with a former national champion in St. Thomas. Looks like Carleton isn't expected to repeat last year's run, but it's always good to get some in-region competition when you're way out west.

Hopefully Whitworth learned that they can't be content forcing up 3 pointers. Farnsworth needs to play like a center (maybe he isn't capable of that?) and Valle needs to get to the post when he has a smaller guard on him. If they can get back to finding higher % shot opportunities, I think they'll be fine. But the fact that Farnsworth is still getting the minutes he is, with as bad as he's played is kinda scary. Either Logie is convinced he's just had some off games, or the guys behind him are even worse  ???

The rematch with Colorado College should be a good one. Don't know if the Tigers will make many adjustments right out of the gate since everything they did in Spokane was effective, but Whitworth should look different. This one will come down to Logie's ability to win the X's and O's, coaching battle IMO.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on November 30, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
Rat,
Early in the season still and trying to get his confidence up by playing him?  Or do you think Logie is giving him enough rope to hang himself?  Either way, I've read a lot of posts about Farnsworth on here that suggest he is a good enough player to be effective.  With Valle being a big body guard, I hope he watches Marcus Smart from Oklahoma State.  Uses his body really well and big body guards seem to be fairly successful in the NWC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 30, 2013, 12:25:54 PM
Quote from: playball on November 30, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
Rat,
Early in the season still and trying to get his confidence up by playing him?  Or do you think Logie is giving him enough rope to hang himself?  Either way, I've read a lot of posts about Farnsworth on here that suggest he is a good enough player to be effective.  With Valle being a big body guard, I hope he watches Marcus Smart from Oklahoma State.  Uses his body really well and big body guards seem to be fairly successful in the NWC

Good question, not sure if I know the answer. Farnsworth "should" be good. He is large and incredibly athletic. Apparently he just isn't very skilled. Part of his problem is that he's gotten in to foul trouble in every game this year. 12 personal fouls through 3 games. Logie would probably like to play Farnsworth more. Wilks has actually averaged more min/gm but Wilks just isn't that big (although he's very efficient when he does get looks at the basket).

Until Whitworth has a better big guy, though, expect the offense to continue to go through the guards. They are a very talented group so it's really not a bad thing. You just get into trouble when you're shooting less than 30% from 3 and can't get easy buckets in the paint (ie Colorado College)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 30, 2013, 07:01:14 PM
Whitworth beat Carleton 70-61

Pirates continue to struggle from outside, shooting around 23% from 3

But it's a win against an in-region (I believe) opponent on a neutral court so we'll take it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 30, 2013, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 30, 2013, 07:01:14 PM
Whitworth beat Carleton 70-61

Pirates continue to struggle from outside, shooting around 23% from 3

But it's a win against an in-region (I believe) opponent on a neutral court so we'll take it

Yep, the MIAC is in the West.

But, new this year, as long as 70% (I think) of your games are in-region, then all D-III games "count."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 02, 2013, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on November 26, 2013, 07:06:32 PM
If Coach Rutschman has/had an issue with a person it was most likely highly deserved.  I do not know of many alumni of Linfield, both students and football players, who after having dealings with Coach have nothing but respect and admiration for him. 

I took Rutschman's class they still let him teach at Linfield, wanted to kill myself out of shear boredom.  Nobody has used that teaching style since 1943 and there is a reason for that.  There is one man that has led the charge to keep Doty out of the Hall of Fame for his accomplishments on the field as a football player, many records he holds or did hold, and that is Ad Rutschman.  Classy?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 02, 2013, 05:48:48 PM
I'm not sure what Kool-Aid I'm supposed to keep drinking but the fact is after 26 seasons the prior coaches record was 330-347 with a NWC record of 190-194.  There were more last place finishes then first (3 to 2).  14 overall winning seasons.  During those 14 winning seasons the overall win/loss ratio was 60/40.  During his 12 losing seasons the ratio was 35/65. A NWC record 46-82 record since 2005-6.

Only twice did he win more than 65% of his games in a season.  The numbers simply don't lie about his effectiveness as a coach. 

In the 3 major men's sports, Football, Basketball, and Baseball, we measure our on court success by first Conference championships (more or less expected) and second by National Titles.  He was fortunate to have such a long run with such poor results.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 02, 2013, 05:57:22 PM
Again, if Coach Rutschman is the one guy keeping Doty out of the Linfield Hall of Fame then it must be for one heckuva reason.  Keep in mind that Doty was a guy who kept notes from every conversation he had with administration.  For him not to be able to use that leverage (dirty laundry) from over 26 years in the Athletic Facility to get elected into the HOF has to mean that whatever is keeping him out is substantial.  If he has to wait until Coach Rutschman passes away to be elected into the HOF then so be it. 

It is too bad that your experiences with Coach have come at a time when he is perhaps not the man he once was. Given that he is at least 80 he gets a hall pass from me.  I've had experiences with both men in their primes and their is simply no comparison between the two in terms of class, attitude, character, and impact on men.  The Oregon Small College athlete of the year is named after him for a reason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 02, 2013, 11:30:56 PM
Whitworth got swept by Colorado College on the season. I think the Tigers will prove to be a good team but something is up with the Pirates. I didn't get to watch this one so I don't really know what went wrong other than another poor shooting night from everywhere. Don't know how much was poor shooting and how much was CC defense altering shots? I'm sure plenty of both.

Whitworth may be able to go inside a little easier on maybe half the league, but the better teams are going to give the Pirates a few losses if they keep shooting 32% from the field like they did Sunday.

Maybe a CC poster (if there are any) can provide some commentary on the game
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
I agree with Rat.   Unless Colorado College is a lot better than I expect, I'm  a little concerned about WW.   Seems like their talent level is good, but something isn't right--no Gebbers on the team might be the problem.  Hopefully, they'll get it together before league.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 04, 2013, 03:53:18 AM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on December 02, 2013, 05:57:22 PM
Again, if Coach Rutschman is the one guy keeping Doty out of the Linfield Hall of Fame then it must be for one heckuva reason.

I can answer that one for you.  Doty voted for a female swimming coach and instructor for tenure.  This swimming coach had brought a Title IX lawsuit against the school, which she ended up winning, and Rutschman tried to have her fired.  Rutschman got pissed enough to try and leverage Doty to be fired with the administration.  He submitted a letter of resignation from his AD position on the grounds that he would resign if the administration did not fire Doty.  The administration did not fire Doty and so the accepted Rutschman's resignation.  Rutshcman later tried to take back the resignation, but the school would not allow it and thats where it started.  Those that love Rutschman blame Doty for his ouster from the AD position.   Do not forget, Doty played for Rutschman for 4 years and Rutschman hired Doty to be the basketball coach, so I guess he did not always think he was a bad guy.  And for leverage that Doty has, I hear there could be a tell all book....
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on December 02, 2013, 05:57:22 PM
The Oregon Small College athlete of the year is named after him for a reason.
Yes, and the Kentucky basketball arena is named after a racist.  Now clearly Rutschamn is not a racist, but the point is just because your name is on something doesn't mean you are the most benevolent person.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 04, 2013, 04:02:22 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
I agree with Rat.   Unless Colorado College is a lot better than I expect, I'm  a little concerned about WW.   Seems like their talent level is good, but something isn't right--no Gebbers on the team might be the problem.  Hopefully, they'll get it together before league.

Look like perhaps WW doesn't have the inside game they have had in the past.  The 6'6 kid for Colorado College had two good games against WW and Farnsworth only managed a total of 7 points.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 04, 2013, 02:40:10 PM
Thanks for the background as all of that happened after I left Linfield. I have always thought that the entire She Who will not be named debacle was a sad end to a great career for Coach...

I do take offense to your associating Coach with a racist... that is a cheap shot..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2013, 03:29:03 PM
Speaking as a neutral third party, I will defend formercat here. He did not "associate" Ad Rutschman with Adolph Rupp. He simply made an analogy, and a pretty apt one, to illustrate his point that naming something prestigious after someone does not automatically mean that the person in question had no character flaws. Another good example would've been former college football coach John Heisman. The most highly-prized player award in college football is named after John Heisman, yet he set the benchmark for poor sportsmanship in college sports by once coaching his Georgia Tech team to a 222-0 victory over Cumberland College.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 04, 2013, 04:49:04 PM
Although I have enjoyed WW basketball beating up on Linfield over the last few years and I LOVED it when WW football won the NWC two years in a row, it does make me sad to see the careers of both Doty and Rutschman end poorly.  They both accomplished a lot in their time at Linfield and I had the utmost respect for both of them.  I don't know the details of what happened. However, it may have been a situation where it was time for the programs to move on.  It isn't often that coaches retire in time before they get the hook.  I guess WW's football coach is the latest example of a good coach getting his walking papers despite a long, successful tenure at a school. Hopefully all the Linfield posters can move on from their feud and start supporting all the programs at Linfield and they can start posting about the current basketball team and how they are doing and start answering some important questions like:
      Will this year's seniors from Linfield also get zero wins against WW in their 4 years at Linfield?
      Will Linfield score more than 20 in the first half against WW?
      Will Linfield stop whining about traveling to Spokane and Walla Walla?
       

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 05, 2013, 05:05:57 PM
This year the Cats will be okay... Say .500 in NWC play with a surprising win or two, a couple heartbreak losses, and  be a much improved program by year end. In two years they will be playing for the NWC championship and the linguistic dreaded sleeping giant will be awake.. Look out WW... We are coming for your title!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 08, 2013, 01:07:08 AM
Sorry, WWW.  Was at the game tonight, and until GF started to coast near the end, your 'Cats did not look good.  It is hard to imagine that they can be competitive at all this year, even if you give them a half of the year to get established.  GF is a much improved team, and will battle LC and PacU for the best team in OR, but I don't see the 'Cats matching up with these three teams at all, much less the WA schools.   Linfield is in trouble.  I don't see .500 in league.  Tonight their press break was weak, they didn't box out and gave up 13 offensive rebounds, and they missed too many FT's.
 
I also have heard good things about Coach Roseberg, but he has a tough road.  I thought they would be further along than they are right now.  Will have to see what Coach R can do for them. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 08, 2013, 08:33:15 PM
Im going to start out my response with saying that Im trying to be as unbiased as possible.

Its tough to gauge where Linfield is in the league after one away game in a place where it is very hostile (shocking, GF fans are brutal) environment against a team who is 6-1 and averaging 95 points a game.  GF, even with a new coach, has a very fast team full of talented guards who have experience.  Remember, the same team that beat WW AT WW... 

With that said, the Cats got thumped last night which wasn't surprising, however far from to the point of expected for me.  They seem to be taking care of the ball well, only 12 TO's last night with 7 of those coming from the Forward and Center positions.  The one thing that is worrying me about this Linfield team is lack of size.  I've said before that size is lacking in the NWC but Linfield's lack of size is astounding.  That will also be remedied Im sure with recruiting.  But, with only having three guys weighing over 200 lbs, and 2 of them hardly seeing the court tells me that Linfield's littles are going to have to be tough to stand a chance this year.  Weight room needed here.  We cant be getting out rebounded by a team that is somewhat comparable in size.

I haven't been able to watch any of the games yet, but I have a question for anyone who has:  What does this team do well enough to set itself apart from everyone else?  Whats their identity as a team?  Also, if other posters on here would like to chime in on what their team's identity is feel free.  I would like to see what A) public perception of a program's style is or B) What similar attributes a team has that allows them to win.

Give these Cats some time.  New coach, new players, new program really.  TMT, just worry about your boys up North, they aren't doing much better. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 09, 2013, 12:27:56 PM
Looked over Linfield's record so far and took a look at the roster and it does not look pretty.  A loss to UCSC and a close game with Cal Tech look bad.  The blow out by George Fox can happen, but the record so far does not bode well for the rest of the year.

The roster situation looks worse.  Not only do they lack size like Playball stated, but the first year recruiting class suggests the new coach has no clue what kind of talent is needed to win at this level. He brought a guard with him from his JC team and has started him 4 of 5 games.  He's shooting 27% from the field so far!!!  It's not like this is much of a change from his JC career.  He shot 31% from the field last year at Foothill.  He did bring a kid in from a West Catholic Athletic Team, but the kid was not a real high level player in that league and is shooting 40% from the field.  In the 5 games played so far, 14 of the 25 starting slots are newcomers.  Judging from the stats, only 1 is playing decent--a basketball and baseball player from Oregon--did he get recruited there to play baseball? 

Did this guy think he could bring in average players from high schools and JC's and compete in the NWC?  Maybe he came in too late to bring in decent players, but this is not the kind of talent Linfield had during Playball's career. Some of the new freshmen he's playing might develop.  Still too early to judge, but it doesn't look like this is going to be a fast turn around for Linfield.
   


 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 10, 2013, 12:04:38 PM
What Buc said!  Except...Rosenberg was an assistant coach at LC for a couple of years, so he should know what it takes to win in this league and what recruits he needs to do that.  He has been away for awhile but its like riding a bicycle, isn't it?

What Playball said!  Except...They didn't seem to take care of the ball.  12 turnovers but several more "almosts" from a mild press.  They just looked a little overwhelmed.  Wait for Whitworth or UPS or Whitman or PacU or LC...  They did look small and thus didn't board real well.  And the defensive press that was a staple of Doty's tenure was missing.  They seemed content to sit back and let the other team come to them.  Just a different look from past years, but that's what a new coach brings.

But I am looking for Linfield to rebound from this loss and hope for better games down the road.  I was just hoping for better for my first look at them.  They did have a stretch in the 2nd half where they hit 3 3's in a row to cut a 22 point lead to 13, but that was as far as that went.

Having seen LC, PacU and GF play, their records are not much better than Linfield's, but their level of play is.  I think they will be alright.  GF is at the top of the league right now.  PacU is doing well after suffering from some heavy injuries.  I am worried about LC's reliance on the 3 (slumps happen), but keep hitting them and they will be okay.  Linfield is a year or two away in my mind.  And Willamette is... scheduled to play games. 

I think nobody has set themselves apart for the pack yet.  It could be a real dogfight this year!  Maybe that will bring some of the UPS and LC posters back.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gright on December 11, 2013, 12:53:49 AM
Great. Came here to catch up on NWC basketball and was surprised to read that former Linfield Coach Larry Doty is being kept out of the Linfield HOF by of all people Ad Rutschman. The person who posted that comment is wrong. To be considered for the HOF a former player must first be nominated. In most cases it is the family of the nominee but it could be teammates, friends or anyone else who wants to put in the time necessary to put together all the supporting documentation. The supporting documentation is passed out to twenty HOF committe members, coach Rutschman is one, who in turn select a group to be inducted. The process is anonymous, beyond personal influence and designed to be non-political. In recent years the number of nominees is far more than those inducted.
I played for coach Rutschman and was one of Doty's teammates.  As a player he has HOF credentials. Last two times I checked Larry hadn't been nominated.




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on December 11, 2013, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: Gright on December 11, 2013, 12:53:49 AM
The process is anonymous, beyond personal influence and designed to be non-political.

Sorry, but if you know anything about the athletics on Linfield's campus then you know it is not beyond personal influence and is very political. There have been some efforts to get Doty into the Hall of Fame, but they have been shot down.  According to Rutschman, Doty lacks character.


On the topic of the Linfield basketball team I think it is a bit harsh to judge Coach Rosenberg's ability to recruit on the players he currently has.  Rosenberg was not hired until sometime in the middle of May and did not move to McMinnville until the end of June.  Most players are going to have committed by then and it probably does not help that his budget is less than 50,000 dollars.  This year he is also missing Andrew Batiuk, one of the better scorers in the NWC, but he will be back next year.  As for experience in the NWC, as someone else said, he was an assistant coach for LC with one of the better teams to ever play in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 15, 2013, 05:29:30 PM
Last night linfield shot 40 threes out of 52 shots.  I get that one guy went 8/16, but the two other guards shooting 2/10 and 1/7 shows me one of two things: 1) the game plan was to only shoot threes because we are a small team.... Or 2) they don't understand a balanced attack.  I don't really feel comfortable with either conclusion 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 16, 2013, 09:52:39 AM
Playball:

I think it was more like the first one, except it probably wasn't a game plan as much as it was an evolution.  When you go against a much bigger team (a front line of 6'9" and 6'7") and you are not, going inside is not much of an option.  Fox beat them, but in overtime and put up 37 3's against them (out of 71, so more even), but I think even you would agree Fox is a better team right now.  NW Christian must be more athletic and I can see the 'Cats just "settling" for the easier 3, maybe as the clock was winding down.  Lots of speculation, but it is common for a team to go to the 3 when the rest of the offense doesn't work against a better team.  I've seen it happen a lot.

I wouldn't read too much into one game.  I still think they are on the right track, but it will take a while and recruiting, and getting an all-league player back.

BTW:
Quote from: playball on December 08, 2013, 08:33:15 PM
TMT, just worry about your boys up North, they aren't doing much better. 
Just looked at the standings, and the boys up North are the top three teams (okay LC beat out Whitworth alphabetically).  JMWY :)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 17, 2013, 07:22:17 PM
Looks like the two Eastern Washington Schools are playing at about the same level and GF, LC, and Pacific seem pretty good.  Should be an exciting league race this year.  I'll be interested to see how WW stands up to UW-Steven's Point.  The losses to Colorado College makes me think they aren't quite up to Top-10 level competition this year.  Hopefully, Colorado College just has their number and we are the type of team that can play with the #1 team in the nation.

I don't think Playball's fears about Linfield are unfounded.  Last night 30 or 47 shots were 3's and they shot the same shooting percentage from inside and outside the arc. It looks like they can't go inside effectively and they are just going to pop out and shoot 3's.  Not winning basketball.  However, they might not have enough players capable of playing at this level to be competitive and this is going to be their style for this year. 

As far as recruiting players for this year, Linfield could have done much better even if the new coach was hired late--especially since he came out of the JC ranks.  I know that Eastern Washington Univ picked up their starting point guard from the JC ranks last June and there were others available.  Another little interesting tidbit about Eastern.  Two of their starting three guards are players that Hayford had recruited to WW. He brought them to Eastern as walk-ons instead of having them go to Whitworth once he got the job there.  Kind of shows you that you can't win at the the Div III level without Div I talent at the guard spots. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 19, 2013, 11:53:49 AM
I'd prefer to have us avoid going the JUCO route... If this was D1 athletics and the coach was under immediate pressure to win then using a quick fix approach such as transfers and JUCOs would work.  However, I would much rather he build a program by bringing in strong freshmen classes with a sprinkling of JUCO's and transfers.  From what I know Linfield is one of the few local programs with a full JV schedule which should definitely be a factor in player development.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 19, 2013, 12:32:09 PM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on December 19, 2013, 11:53:49 AM
I'd prefer to have us avoid going the JUCO route... If this was D1 athletics and the coach was under immediate pressure to win then using a quick fix approach such as transfers and JUCOs would work.  However, I would much rather he build a program by bringing in strong freshmen classes with a sprinkling of JUCO's and transfers.  From what I know Linfield is one of the few local programs with a full JV schedule which should definitely be a factor in player development.

While that would be ideal, it will take a while.  I'm not worried about the recruiting aspect yet, Coach has only been coach for a short period relatively.  I will reserve judgement for that piece for a couple years down the road.  I worry about how he strategically uses the pieces he has now in game situations and game planning.  I don't want to disparage the team and say the cupboard is bare because they are all collegiate athletes.  But, they aren't playing at the competitive level we would like to see.  It's very easy to coach when you have higher caliber players running the floor, and this is why I am interested to see Shannon's coaching style and ability.  I believe we have a good coach with a good resume but I want to KNOW he is what he is cracked up to be.  If there are players looking at this, keep plugging away fellas.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 27, 2013, 01:00:35 PM
Off to Vegas for the D3Hoops tourney !  GO PIRATES !  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 28, 2013, 12:29:05 AM
'Cats pick up a guard out of Nevada for next season.

www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html (http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html)

James Sandoval is the son of current Nevada Governor, Brian Sandoval.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 28, 2013, 06:41:00 PM
Huzzah! While pleased LINFIELD has won 50% as many games so far as all of the last season, I'm surprised to find the coaching controversy kicking I look forward to a tell all book and hope my letter to the former coach, 107 alumni, the president and board will be included.
To drive to Vegas our not drive to Vegas, a good choice to have.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 28, 2013, 06:45:02 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 28, 2013, 12:29:05 AM
'Cats pick up a guard out of Nevada for next season.

www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html (http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html)

James Sandoval is the son of current Nevada Governor, Brian Sandoval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a recruiting violation for Rosenberg to talk about a student athlete that has not matriculated? I know for sure it is at the D1 level, so I'm guessing it is for the D3 level as well.

Also, this is a weird Whitworth team. It feels like McConnell has regressed, and the youth of Jurlina and Love certainly showed down the stretch. I don't think either of those two have lived up to their hype, though to be fair we are only through the non-conference portion of the schedule their freshman year. Whitworth played their best half of the season today, and played the wost half of their season. Their loss to UWSP looks bad, but it really was a good game for about 34 minutes. Four guys fouled out, they couldn't buy a bucket in the second half and shot right around 50% from the line in the second half.

I'm also not convinced that Drew Sears isn't better than Wilkes, Farnsworth and for sure Loiler. Whitworth has certainly come down from the Hayford era. I think Logie is a good coach, but I don't think he's anywhere close to Hayford.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on December 28, 2013, 09:29:50 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 28, 2013, 12:29:05 AM
'Cats pick up a guard out of Nevada for next season.

www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html (http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html)

James Sandoval is the son of current Nevada Governor, Brian Sandoval.

In the small world category, I've apparently seen him play a few games. Here's a link to a game from a couple years ago where my nephew's team played in the Bishop Manogue tournament.

http://youtu.be/kt3Z5paDHEo
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 28, 2013, 10:33:23 PM
And FWIW...we cannot get this guy into the HOF either (Ed Griffin)

http://articles.courant.com/1997-06-11/news/9706110667_1_role-models-physical-education-teacher-coach-and-teacher (http://articles.courant.com/1997-06-11/news/9706110667_1_role-models-physical-education-teacher-coach-and-teacher)

and he was the most talented b ball player EVER at LINFIELD and is still in the record books for football 48 years later. Coached two boys H.S. Connecticut titles too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 29, 2013, 12:39:43 AM
The Bucs couldn't play a full game against UWSP. Still better than the last time we played them. 

Logie is doing a good job.  Very comparable to Hayford.  Hopefully the young guys can mature quickly and he can go deep in the tournament again. 

League play will be interesting. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pointlem on December 29, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
Kudos to D3Hoops.com for a really excellent broadcast from Vegas.  The announcers are ESPN quality . . . excellent calling of two great Stevens Point v. Whitworth/Whitman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 29, 2013, 11:54:05 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on December 28, 2013, 06:45:02 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 28, 2013, 12:29:05 AM
'Cats pick up a guard out of Nevada for next season.

www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html (http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Manogues-James-Sandoval-Commits-to-Linfield-College-237666191.html)

James Sandoval is the son of current Nevada Governor, Brian Sandoval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a recruiting violation for Rosenberg to talk about a student athlete that has not matriculated? I know for sure it is at the D1 level, so I'm guessing it is for the D3 level as well.


I believe you're correct but according to Linfield's press release those fees have been paid by Sandoval.  http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.php?id=5200 (http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.php?id=5200)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 30, 2013, 01:30:11 AM
Quote from: pointlem on December 29, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
Kudos to D3Hoops.com for a really excellent broadcast from Vegas.  The announcers are ESPN quality . . . excellent calling of two great Stevens Point v. Whitworth/Whitman.

Thank you. We work hard to try and bring the best broadcasts possible and appreciate your comment towards that work. We just love D3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 30, 2013, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 30, 2013, 01:30:11 AM
Quote from: pointlem on December 29, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
Kudos to D3Hoops.com for a really excellent broadcast from Vegas.  The announcers are ESPN quality . . . excellent calling of two great Stevens Point v. Whitworth/Whitman.

Thank you. We work hard to try and bring the best broadcasts possible and appreciate your comment towards that work. We just love D3.

I couldn't make the link work last night.  I got to the page showing the game title and a space where the video should be, but no video--any special programs needed, etc?

Nice win for the Bucs last night.  Looks like they are going small.  Is Farnsworth hurt?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 30, 2013, 03:00:10 PM
Just a browser -- also, at the bottom of the page, there is a link that says:

"Video frame not loading? Try hitting refresh, or click here."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 31, 2013, 04:05:01 PM
Have no idea if Farnsworth got hurt...could very well be a move due to lack of production.

With as puzzling as this young Whitworth team has been, I still think they have to be the favorite to win the conference. And I think some of the struggles have been due to Logie tinkering with the lineup and substitution patterns. I'm ok with 34 really good minutes against UWSP and a win against Plateville. Whitman looked good against UWSP, but the Missionaries always play well against OOC opponents who are unfamiliar with Bridgeland's press/system. Whitman had a real shot to knock off the Pointers until Eric did what Eric does and let his ego/temper ruin the game for his team.

I like the way Logie has recruited. It is different than Hayford, for sure. He either doesn't want to or hasn't been able to grab that all-american scorer type transfer that Hayford always seemed to find. But this team is much deeper than in the Hayford days. We're just going to have to put up with some youth and the absence of the dominant big man we've been spoiled with when Montgomery and Friedt were there. At least this year. However, if Logie and his staff can develop the guys he's been bringing in, Whitworth should still be a regular sweet 16 and elite 8 caliber program. I just don't think the top-end talent is there this year...  :'(

The only real frustrating thing for me has been watching the offense consistently struggle from outside and most of the time refuse to quit chucking em up from deep. Shooting 30% and allowing opponents 36% is what's killing them right now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 31, 2013, 05:05:41 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 31, 2013, 04:05:01 PM
Whitman had a real shot to knock off the Pointers

I agree with that, though at that moment, their shot may have been running out... Stevens Point had tied it after Whitman took a 4 pt lead early in the OT and Tyler Tillema was in the process of taking over the OT period.

Quote
until Eric did what Eric does and let his ego/temper ruin the game for his team.

Is that something that has happened often? I can understand disagreeing with a call (or a non-call in this case... I assume he was displeased with the lack of a foul on the previous Missionary offensive possession) but they were only down 2 at that point... they had an opportunity to tie or take the lead with under 2 minutes left in OT!

Pretty unbelievable, any way you shake it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 31, 2013, 10:05:33 PM
Did somebody move the party over to social media or do you folks still like to boogie down on Posting Up? Weird, nobody sent me the memo.

Before I start shaking my tail feather, my hat's off to the D3 Classic. LOVING the opportunity to see (1) nationally ranked teams from across the country, (2) during the holidays, (3) at a great venue, and (4) you throw in Vegas?!

Ready. Party on: Stevens Point/Whitman.

I'll have you know that as I post, I'm emptying my pockets, turning on my office lights, and I've got my mace in hand. I don't want to get robbed twice this week.

For those NWC'ers who weren't at the D3 Classic or didn't watch it online, here's the recap: 40 seconds left in OT, 2 point game, Whitman ball, and sideline referee 90 ft away from the ball calls two bench technicals and throws Bridgeland out. The end.

I've watched thousands of basketball games (from pro to college to grade school). NEVER...EVER...in my life...have I seen a referee decide a game in the manner which occurred Sunday night. It was an absolute injustice. 

It's no secret that Bridgeland rides the referees hard. But that (singular) referee had all game to "T" him up. But in the last :40 seconds of a 2 pt. game that had 9 lead changes, and Whitman ball?

Listen, I'm not one to complain about the refereeing of a game. But this was different. The entire NWC needs to be crying "foul" here.  I'm not going to get into what it looked like happened #tourneydarling #protect1, but it was ugly.

And don't let the grammar of others deceive you, this game wasn't Whitman "hanging in" or "having a shot." This game wasn't Whitman "on fire," and they weren't playing a "cold" or "tired" Stevens Point. They went toe-to-toe for 44 minutes and 20 seconds. 

'Hats off to Stevens Point, too (they didn't call the technical fouls). They are an absolute treat to watch. It should come to nobody's surprise that they are disciplined, smart, and GOOD. They made Whitman defend them for :35 seconds over and over.  It either resulted in a Steve's Point layup or a contested 3. As much as Whitman, they deserved to be in a 2 pt game with :40 seconds.

Mark my words: I want Stevens Point on our side of the bracket. I'll even take them at their place. Just give me Stevens Point.

And let's not forget that Whitman has played their entire season, including this game without their 6'10, All Region, NWC Player of the Year, senior, Ben Eisenhardt. Hopefully he's back soon.

Although disappointing, the game was meaningless for the NWC. With slower than usual starts by WW & WMN, the NWC will only send one team dancing. Predictions: Whitman 13-3, WW 12-4, LC 10-6, GF 10-6
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 31, 2013, 10:35:48 PM
While I agree that it was incredibly disappointing to see that official essentially end the game, I do feel like I should point out one key point: ref may have been far from the ball but he was right next to Bridgeland, who definitely said enough to merit ONE technical.

We've generally had the same officials in Vegas all four years and haven't had this kind of result. I'm disappointed in how many T's we had this weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on January 01, 2014, 03:01:00 PM
For every technical foul that Bridgeland gets he deserves at least 50 more... Let's not blame the refs for his actions... He is a grown man and is in complete control of what he says and does... Obviously he crossed the line and kudos to the ref for having the stones to call him on it.. No ref wants to be the one who makes those calls but there are some things that have to be penalized no matter what.  It would be interesting to hear what he said to earn the first T.   I would bet that the second T came from his reaction.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 01, 2014, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 31, 2013, 10:35:48 PM
We've generally had the same officials in Vegas all four years and haven't had this kind of result. I'm disappointed in how many T's we had this weekend.

Would you credit that to testy officials who just had enough or unruly coaches/players feeling a little feisty on a bigger stage?


Also, for what its worth, I personally enjoy watching Bridgeland coach.  The guy is a sideshow all his own!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 01, 2014, 11:12:27 PM
Don't quite know what to credit it to, to be honest. Like I said, we've had the same crews before and not had seven T's in a tournament (in this case, 18 games).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 03, 2014, 01:44:34 AM
Take a look at the banter on the Wisconsin board. 

Quote from: John Gleich on December 31, 2013, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 31, 2013, 11:24:26 AM
http://d3hoops.com/classic/2013-14/d3hoops-classic/wrapup-day-3

So, d-mac,

Why did the Whitman coach blow up and get two techs after Tillema's layup in OT?

Also, Platteville getting outrebounded 39-20? Ouch!

On the previous play, with the score tied, Whitman attacked and a Whit player went up for a shot and the ball popped up... don't remember who the defender was (I think it was Ryf or Hass).

The Whit bench thought it was a foul (the play was on the wing right in front of them). FWIW, from the perspective of Dave (where ever he was broadcasting from...) it looked like a pretty blatant foul too.

I thought it looked like a clean strip  ;)

What if Bridgeland was right to argue the call?! Whether it was a clean strip or it wasn't, I'm okay with the referee swallowing his whistle. What I'm not okay with is a referee deciding a game. I don't care if Bridgeland strung together fifteen four-letter words and a mother joke.  There is no justification for a technical foul at that point in the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 03, 2014, 10:05:56 AM
BH4:

For real?  What if he was right to argue?  By rules, a coach is never "right" to argue a call, only how wrong he is.  A little wrong, and the refs allow it.  A lot and they cannot.

Birdgeland is known for pushing the limit and getting away with it.  And when he does it, he knows the risk, especially in unfamiliar territory.  He just can't help himself.  So it is okay to T him up in the first half but not late in the game.  A foul is a foul early but not late.  You (and refs) can't go there!  I get a swallowed whistle late.  Happens all of the time.  But it is no surprise to those of us who watch him year after year that this would happen.  Not one of us here!  I agree with Playball that he is sometimes fun to watch.  But he walks the line and sometimes (some would argue, too often) crosses it, and his team deserves to lose because of it. if that's what happens.  No sympathy here!

15 4-letter words and a mother joke!?!?!?!?  You go too far!
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 03, 2014, 11:33:53 AM
At times....

Bridgeland=Rumplestilskin  ;D

I wasn't there but the overall quality of officials here in the US is much higher than elsewhere.  We should be feeling kind of lucky actually.

The official decided to decide the outcome of the game with two decisions in less than a minute span.  The sated no call which was an obvious foul (so was stated on here) and then the 2 t's.  The official probably knew he messed up, but to t up a coach in that situation compounds the problem.  Two wrong calls and boom game over.  I'm not sure if Whitman would've won the game regardless but that effectively ended their chances.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on January 03, 2014, 12:03:59 PM
It really depends on what Bridgeland said to earn the first T... There are some things that have to be automatic T's no matter the time and situation. Bridgeland's actions cost Whitman the game... Not the refs.. No ref wants to put themselves in that position but kudos to the ref for having the integrity to make a very tough call. 

I'd expect that the second T was caused by Bridgeland's reaction to the first T.  Again, he has to be held accountable for his actions.

Blaming the refs doesn't make Bridgeland take responsibility for his actions.. He needs to grow up or he will keep costing his team games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 03, 2014, 02:02:14 PM
From being there, calling the game and talking to the refs afterward, here is what I can tell you:

First of all, I thought it might have been a foul on the no-call from where I was sitting and what I heard. However, the ref five feet from the play told me he saw both hands going up in the air and the ball going down. That was proven by our photographer's picture (hands going up, ball going down). There is no picture of actual contact. If both hands are going up, then there wasn't contact on the wrist since physics would force the wrist downward with the ball - or at least keep it where the contact was made... not up with the other arm. By the way, how does anyone who watched the game on our feed know it was or wasn't a foul? It was on the far side of the court and it wasn't like we were providing a close up or a replay.

Second, the same ref who felt it wasn't a foul then T'ed up Bridgeland when the ref said he used two no-no words in his ear. The first started with f... the second started with b... and they were back-to-back. I would assume yelling them didn't help the cause... and it wasn't like it was the first time Bridgeland had uttered those words. I remember him being talked to by the refs at least once during the game. He got the second T for being 15-plus feet from his bench and screaming at the refs - pretty much in their huddle as they discussed the procedures and such. I didn't see him earn the first tech, but when I turned my head and saw him in the face of the officials... I didn't need to know what the first one was and knew he was about to get his second.

The ref who was involved in all of the calls told me in his 15 years of collegiate reffing, that is the second and third technicals he has ever given out and he wasn't happy he had to do it. That means this guy gives a very long leash and isn't whistle happy. He had to have a good enough reason to not "swallow his whistle" (something that really pisses me off when fans want whistles swallowed) and clearly did.

I talked to Coach Bridgeland after the game (about 30 minutes or so) and he was clearly frustrated that they called the T - saying the same things some have said here - he also didn't understand why there wasn't a foul called in the first place (I told him what the photographic proof indicated - he didn't argue that). As much as I appreciate what Coach Bridgeland has done with his team, I will say what I said several times on air... he cost his team a victory. I understand this is a signature game for his team if they win, but you have to compose yourself in those situations. I am sure he would expect the same from his players so if they are down 2 with 42 seconds to go... they don't give up four free foul shots to the opposing team. I don't care how bad a call or big the moment... you can't go there for the sake of your own team and this signature game. Afterward if you want to discuss with the refs your point of view, that is fine, but that is not the time or place.

By the way, the refs didn't know Stevens Point was the #1 team in the country until just before their games. These guys don't get a chance to call D3 games that often and honestly don't care who their opponents are. They do ask us who they are looking at and what kind of game to expect... thus they didn't know UWSP was #1 until minutes before tip-off of their games - so not much "protecting" in my opinion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 03, 2014, 06:25:28 PM
I think we can all safely agree that Bridgeland deserved the second Technical.  You definitely can't do that!

If Bridgeland was cussing like a sailor all game, "t" him up early.  If he does it again, boot him.  But gentlemen, there was :40 seconds left in OT.

A technical foul early is not a technical foul late.  Good referees exercise this judgement across the sports board. Can anyone name another sports finish similar to this, in any sport, at any level?  I'd even give credit for a "in my son's U10 game" example. 

A win for Whitman would have been nothing more than a feather in their cap.  Their record doesn't support an at large bid.  Rough start without the Conference Player of the Year.  My goodnees they've improved quickly though, and I just have this feeling Whitman sees Stevens Point again this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 03, 2014, 09:33:26 PM
After watching the game,  I agree with many of the sentiments here... Except that Bridgeland cost Whitman the game.  Perhaps he cost them an opportunity at winning the game (and I readily admit that a 5 point game after the 3/4 tech fts changes the game) but in the ensuing offensive possession, Tillema got a blocked shot. Even without the 3/4 tech fts, SP would have still been up two points. SP made 1/2 fts in the next trip (SP +3) and all Whitman could muster was 2 points.  Even after an unforced SP turnover,  Whitman couldn't score.

And Whitman simply couldn't guard Tillema. Yes,  the box score looks gaudy for Hass, and it certainly was... But Tillema was 9/10 for the game and scored 17 in the last 7.5 minutes of the game.

Most or all of you seem to be discounting the fact that Stevens Point made the plays to win the game... they had gotten 3 straight stops and scores.

There are many things that UWSP is and some things they're not. But they showed in their last 3 games that they have the ability to fight against adversity when the shots aren't falling and they have two elite guards who can make a team pay.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 03, 2014, 11:09:51 PM
Agree.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 31, 2013, 10:05:33 PM
'Hats off to Stevens Point, too (they didn't call the technical fouls). They are an absolute treat to watch. It should come to nobody's surprise that they are disciplined, smart, and GOOD. They made Whitman defend them for :35 seconds over and over.  It either resulted in a Steve's Point layup or a contested 3. As much as Whitman, they deserved to be in a 2 pt game with :40 seconds.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 04, 2014, 11:41:42 PM
John - not sure I support that because Tillema blocked the shot after the technical free throws the same would have happened if there hadn't been technicals. Whitman is now in a desperate situation to get shots up quickly, so Tillema is sitting on an opportunity there. Should Bridgeland not get the T's, Whitman is carrying the ball the court down two and their game plan and play call is completely different. You can't make a straight line comparison there. Playing calling and shot selection down 2 with 30 seconds remaining versus 5 is night and day different.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 05, 2014, 01:27:31 AM
Glad somebody else said it. You have no idea who would have won the game. The only thing any of use know for sure is that Bridgeland ruined any chance the Missionaries had at winning. He lost them the game. All UWSP did was make some FT's.

Whitworth swept some OR school's this weekend to start 2-0 in conference play. Controlled Pacific throughout. Then struggled with Willamette for about 20 minutes before pulling away for the 11 point W on the road. The Pacific game was as expected, surprised how much Whitworth struggled with Willamette. They turned the ball over a lot and once again struggled from 3.

They are lucky that a) they are more talented than most of the rest of the conference b) they're playing good defense (even if they aren't forcing as many TO's as they're giving up) and beating opponents on the glass and c) they got some help from Pacific who knocked off Whitman tonight.

Most of the conference will be hanging around in games well into the second half if the 3pt % doesn't come up. They aren't even shooting 30% on the season...Robby Douglas is 2-20...McConnell shooting 18%...had to go back to 07-08 to find a team that shot less than 39% from 3 on the season. They checked in at a measly 37.8%. If this team can buy some buckets on a nightly basis there is no doubt in my mind they are talented enough to make a playoff run. But not playing like they are now. Good enough to finish on top of the NWC but it won't make it out of the second round.

Tacoma schools make the eastern WA swing next weekend. Neither PLU or UPS are playing great basketball. Not even consistent basketball. Whitworth should win both but I have a feeling we are going to get a lot of weird results this season. The conference just feels very average this year overall.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2014, 04:50:45 PM
Rat,

Did not get a chance to watch any of the games this weekend, but the box scores for WW look a little strange.  A total of 29 minutes for two games for Farnsworth. Is he hurt? Others playing better?  What's up?  Jurlina did not play against Willamette--is he hurt?  Wilks looks like he is contributing.  How is he looking?  Kenny Love--he seems up and down in the box scores--any comments?

UPS fans--what happened?   Did they bring back Foster and company and sneak them onto the court?  Did not see them going 2-0 this weekend.

Whitman--Must have let down after the UWSP loss. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 07, 2014, 06:30:15 PM
Hey Buc, I had a chance to see the LC and Linfield game against UPS. Two completely different UPS teams. In the LC game, they scored very well, in the Linfield game, it was very slow. Not sure if we can say they can play an up and down style like against LC AND a slow tempo like against Linfield but they do have some pretty good pieces that will help win them games whether pretty or not. Nelson has been very good for them and Holden is one of the best athletes in the league, kind of a smaller Gittens from 2 years ago. They have lost some close games this year so I am looking to see them put it all together and make another run at the NWC Championship this season. I think this weekends trip to Eastern Washington will tell us a little more about this team. Either they are for real or still trying to find an identity.
On a side note, I really like the Nick Holden kid, if anyone has seen him, please let me know what you think.

PS, sorry I have been gone for a while, my wife and I had a baby boy and certain things just got overlooked.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 08, 2014, 02:36:02 AM
Quote from: Keandre on January 07, 2014, 06:30:15 PM
PS, sorry I have been gone for a while, my wife and I had a baby boy and certain things just got overlooked.

Congrats!

I understand Linfield being a fairly young team, but only one guy playing any kind of minutes (Dirks, 19.5 MPG) is shooting over 40% (52.9% on 3.3 of 6.2 shooting)...YIKES.  Words out, this team struggles putting the ball through the hoop.  With that said, it also looks like this team doesn't have a go to guy for when they need a basket.  The most shots on average any player takes is just over 8.  A lot of people playing and getting opportunities.  Hopefully the law of averages plays out here and they start hitting on their 3's... its 55% of their shot selection.

WW at the bottom of the league for 3pt %?  Someone leaving the doors open in that airplane Hangar they call a gym?!  This isn't like previous Pirate squads.  Neither is only a +3.3 rebounding margin.  Lack of shooting affecting the bigs or lack of bigs affecting the shooters?

LC has 125 more shot attempts per game than the team with the second most....GUNNING! And +9 rebounding advantage while playing small?!  What is happening to this league?!   ???

Only two teams not in the red when it comes to a/to margin. Pacific and George Fox.  Fox is surprising me so far this season.  Averaging 92 a game, where did this come from? Can they sustain?

Wow, the conference looks very different than when I played.  It is kind of amazing how the styles of play and teams morph and evolve league wide as a whole and not just one or two teams at a time.  I would like to see Whitworth's bigs, Farnsworth especially, get back on track in order for them to have a deeper run in the playoffs if they make it that far.  A lot of talented, hungry teams that are capable of taking the top spot away this year, should be exciting to see it all play out!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 11, 2014, 09:49:14 PM
After last night's 78-70 victory over Linfield, Willamette men's basketball is 7-2 against the Wildcats under head coach Kip Ioane. The Bearcats are 11-48 against all other NWC opponents during that time span.

:o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 12, 2014, 01:58:41 PM
A lot of parity in the NWC this year.  Whitman has 5-6 guards who would start on any team in the conference. They win this conference with or without Eisenhardt. If/when he comes back expect a game or two of rust as the team adapts to him on the court. Once they get firing on all cylinders this team can be dangerous on a national level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 13, 2014, 01:31:09 AM
No doubt Whitman has the tools to compete against the best.  Look what they did with UWSP.  However, they don't show up every night.  That might be due to their system or a lack of focus.  If they are going to win the conference they have to beat the Pacifics as well as the Whitworths. 

The games have been closer than I like but a 4-0 start is great. Go Bucs!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 13, 2014, 04:27:52 PM
I love watching Duckworth play for WM, I know Mounier and Big Ben get most of the credit but he is a winner and the team does not have the success they have with out him running the show. Saying that WM has 5-6 guards that would start anywhere else may be right but I think that they are recruited to a system that fits them, not sure they all could start for teams that have slower paces. I have seen plenty of guards who can go all out like the Whitman guards but not get the PT at other schools just cause the style is to uncomfortable for some coaches.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: purplecat on January 18, 2014, 01:42:55 AM
Just finished watching the linfield Whitman game, L infield is very young,and not really sure what to think. But a few more years with some good recruits I think we will be on the right path.Whitman did not impress me either, they are a much better team than linfield! but not a world beater either. One thing I did like was the way both coaches carried themselves on the side lines. Really feel linfield is heading in the right direction! just need to be patient....easily said.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2014, 11:08:36 PM
Purplecat, one thing I DIDN'T like is how both coaches carried themselves on the sideline. You ask me, I think Bridgeland is lookin' soft out there  :D. 

And I can tell you what to think about Linfield:  They are very, very bad.  They've only beat Caltech and Portland Bible all year.

A Buc Forever, regarding Whitman, I don't know that  "they don't show up every night" is quite accurate.  Pacific is certainly no gimme this year, and dropping one to them on the road isn't a terrible loss.  Watch for this Whitman team to get stronger as the year goes on (still waiting for Eisenhardt...)   

Moving on, unless Lewis & Clark missed their bus to Willamette tonight, WW, Whitman, & LC will be knotted atop the NWC standings. 

Whitworth comes to Whitman January 21.  This will be interesting.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 19, 2014, 03:27:23 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2014, 11:08:36 PM
Purplecat, one thing I DIDN'T like is how both coaches carried themselves on the sideline. You ask me, I think Bridgeland is lookin' soft out there  :D. 

And I can tell you what to think about Linfield:  They are very, very bad.  They've only beat Caltech and Portland Bible all year.

A Buc Forever, regarding Whitman, I don't know that  "they don't show up every night" is quite accurate.  Pacific is certainly no gimme this year, and dropping one to them on the road isn't a terrible loss.  Watch for this Whitman team to get stronger as the year goes on (still waiting for Eisenhardt...)   

Moving on, unless Lewis & Clark missed their bus to Willamette tonight, WW, Whitman, & LC will be knotted atop the NWC standings. 

Whitworth comes to Whitman January 21.  This will be interesting.  Any thoughts?


I think right now Whitman is the team to beat. However, I do think they are more up and down than a great team should be.  The losses to Pacific and old Westbury are good examples.  Last year the losses to PLU, LC, and GF kept them from winning the conference.  Bad losses the year before cost them home court advantage in the playoffs.

It's great they have some huge wins the last few years. They have ruined more than one WW streak, beaten a #1 in the nation, almost beat another but, winning championships means beating who you should beat.

Speaking of beating who you should beat, WW's loss to GF was bad. Hopefully this will be their only bad league loss.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2014, 02:38:56 PM
GF is more talented than you think.  They'll compete with every one in the conference outside of Whitman.  The reason they'll never compete against Whitman is that they're trying to let their horses outrun thoroughbreds.  If you want a shot at beating Whitman, 1) limit your turnovers, 2) make them defend you 30 seconds, 3) go under the on balls, 4) Helpside defense--take note of how Willamette and Pacific played them.  But DON'T go out there and try to beat them at their own game.  I said it before, Whitman has 5-6 guards that start on any team in the conference.

Whitworth / Whitman will be interesting... 

A Buc Forever, I'll give you that Whitman's style of play creates a more volatile.  But also don't discount that Bridgeland's system has produced consistent winning teams, to the tune of 22-4, 23-5, etc.  Whitman, by the way, is a different team this year.  You're seeing less gambling on defense which results in less easy layups, they're shooting a high 3 point field goal percentage with less NBA 3's going up, no more lining up taking charges--they're challenging shots at the rim, and more ball reversals on offense than ever before.

And let's not forget about Lewis & Clark...

On a side note, the George Fox broadcasters were phenomenal.  Called a good game, pretty knowledgeable, and as close to impartial as you can expect a home team broadcast team to be.  Nice work over there.

   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on January 21, 2014, 12:33:39 AM
After seeing Whitman and Whitworth this weekend when they came to Linfield I feel fairly comfortable in saying no team in the conference is all that dominant.  Whitman probably has the best overall talent.  No surprise that Whitworth lost to GF given how much Whitworth has to rely on its guards and GF has some good guards themselves.  Would not surprise me if Whitworth dropped the next two games against Whitman and L&C, but then again no one team is head and shoulders above the rest of the conference.  I can think of several teams that finished 2nd or 3rd in previous years that I could say would dominate the conference if they were in it this year.  Seems like talent overall is down, but maybe that is just me.  This I can say, there are very few quality bigs left and what are the chances that you see two good bigs on the same team anymore? Maybe Martin and Eisenhardt (when he returns) for Whitman?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 21, 2014, 11:30:06 AM
BH4:

I watched the GF/Whitman game and the announcers did do a good job.  They also mentioned several times how much the injuries were affecting GF.  It appears Atkins got hurt in the Whitworth game.

It was an early game, so the late games were available to check out.  LC vs Will, pleeeease!  Whitworth vs Linfield, knew the outcome of that one!  So I made the trip to Forest Grove, and got a good game vs PLU.

Former:

PLU has a young big, 6-6 Bryce Miller.  Very active inside for a big and had some nice moves.  But on the other hand, PU has no big to bang with him.  Probably made him look better than against other teams.  He is only averaging 10 a game.  But only a soph, so....

Whitman looks like a good game with Whitworth, but LC hasn't won in Spokane since ????  2014 would be a great time to start, but tough trip (Whitman used to be an easy game, but not anymore), tougher place to play, and still a tough team.  Hard to like LC for that one.   I still see (hoping) for a split this weekend for them.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 21, 2014, 01:50:54 PM
Besides losing two close contests in Eastern Washington, UPS is having a solid start. Nothing special but they play hard. They beat LC at home for their only conference loss. They will be the quiet horse this year as no one is really talking about them. Also, a few of their losses have come down to last second shots and reall close outcomes. Those types of games make teams better in the long run. Chaledinas is playing very well, Barber is starting to find his stroke, and Holden as well as Nelson have been solid all year. They have some size, speed, athletes, and shooters that will help them compete for a top spot in the conference. Anyone else have thoughts on UPS?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2014, 08:28:47 PM
Formercat-- I agree.   

TryMeTeam:   Speaking of injuries, let's not forget about the All Region, player of the year, d1 transfer, senior, 6'10 fellow that Whitman is missing.

Keandre:  What's a quiet horse?  But you're right, we've kind of glanced over UPS, despite the fact that they've taken Whitman to OT and beaten LC. 

LC has to be happy with a split this week.  They win both on the road and they are the legitimate frontrunner in the NWC.  No questions asked.

Whitman needs to at least split with LC & WW.  They drop two at home and they're loooking at a 3rd place finish.  If they win both it will be their conference to lose. 

WW needs a split, but would sure like to get 2, stealing one in Sherwood.  Tip off is coming...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2014, 01:11:42 AM
Well, WW positions themself as the team to beat.  McConnell and McCarger were fantastic.  Whitworth shot a blistering percentage from the floor tonight, and not because they were hot, but because they had good clean looks at the basket all night.

Attention turns to Lewis & Clark.  Big road trip for them. 

UPS creeps back into the picture.  We'll get a chance to see if they're ready to compete for the NWC crown this weekend.  If they get two W's (over Fox and Pacific), they're in the hunt. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 22, 2014, 11:30:41 AM
A great win for WW!!!

Now onto the next hurdle--LC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 22, 2014, 07:31:13 PM
Quiet horse means a horse that is quietly creeping from behind, you can also use quiet dog, quiet any animal, I just thought horse was better at the time cause I took my family horseback riding last weekend.

As always, LC will live and die by the 3, I see them losing a few just for that reason.

Can someone tell me whats going on with PLU, they have size, they have shooters, they have some good guard play but they are not winning any games.

Big weekend for the NWC, anything can happen when you lace'em up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 23, 2014, 11:54:22 AM
Quote from: Keandre on January 21, 2014, 01:50:54 PMAnyone else have thoughts on UPS?

I think UPS will make the NWC tourney. They have taken care of business against the "rest" of the league which is all they need to keep doing to finish 3-4. The team that showed up in Spokane didn't play very good basketball. Tons of turnovers, poor shooting. Didn't look like the UPS teams of old. I still don't know what Lunt does so well that posters (mostly dudes that left long ago) defended him for so long. I know it can be tough to sustain success in d3, but it certainly is possible and not an unrealistic expectation. They'll be fine, just no NCAA tournament any time soon.

I'm glad Whitworth played so well against Whitman. They lost to George Fox because they couldn't buy a bucket and Fox shot like 90% from the 3 pt line. They looked a little slow on D too, which definitely contributed to Fox's success from behind the arc. They had too many open looks. I didn't get to watch the Whitman game but looking at the box score and knowing how talented the Missionaries are, Whitworth had to have played a great game. If they can consistently get back to shooting in the high 30's% from 3, they can win a few NCAA tournament games. If not, they could easily get bounced by a GF in the first round of the NCAA tourney. Whitworth is still the deepest team in the conference and arguably has the most top end talent as well, they just need to play like it...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 23, 2014, 12:56:51 PM
I was looking at UPS cost of tuition, its close to 60 grand!!! Wow, being able to bring in recruits to even compete is a tremendous feat for Lunt and his staff. To me, that is why Lunt is defended all these years I am assuming because if you can get recruits good enough to compete in the NWC at 60 grand a pop, that certainly is amazing in my eyes. Are other NWC schools that high in costs?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 23, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
Just looked it up and UPS has a full cost of just under $53,000 for full costs (tuition, room and board, fees).  Whitworth is just under $46,000.  I've heard (can't confirm) that Occidental is the most expensive school in the country.  The full cost to go there is $59,592.  These costs are significantly higher than just a few years ago.  I think total cost at Whitworth in 2008 was still under $30,000.  I do think the rising costs are making it harder to recruit to the DIII's, but all the schools are in the same boat.

There are few public DIII's and they do have an advantage--UW-Stevens Point cost just under $15,000 for a resident of Wisconsin and Just under $21,000 for a non-resident.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 23, 2014, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 23, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
Just looked it up and UPS has a full cost of just under $53,000 for full costs (tuition, room and board, fees).  Whitworth is just under $46,000.  I've heard (can't confirm) that Occidental is the most expensive school in the country.  The full cost to go there is $59,592.  These costs are significantly higher than just a few years ago.  I think total cost at Whitworth in 2008 was still under $30,000.  I do think the rising costs are making it harder to recruit to the DIII's, but all the schools are in the same boat.

There are few public DIII's and they do have an advantage--UW-Stevens Point cost just under $15,000 for a resident of Wisconsin and Just under $21,000 for a non-resident.   

This brings up a questions in my mind (athletic and non-athletic related) when do prospective students start saying enough is enough when it comes to the cost of a private education?  I know there are aid packages, etc., to help offset some of the cost, but it seems the debt students are coming away with are getting into the extreme.

Maybe I'm blowing this up since I have a 3 year old daughter and I shudder at the thought of what the cost of college will be in 15 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 24, 2014, 12:21:48 PM
The Wisconsin schools are also state schools who give a ton of money in aid.  They are pretty much in a league of their own when it comes to recruiting due to their success and because of how "low" their tuition is comparatively to the other schools in the west region.  Kind of ridiculous, but it is what it is
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 24, 2014, 07:14:21 PM
The tuition issue is a huge issue.  I definitely feel the pain of students these days.  I know of many kids walking on at DII's and DI's instead of going to DIII's because of the costs. Many of the medical residents I work with are in debt beyond what I think is reasonable for getting an education ($350,000 and over is quite common). Wilcat11--start saving.

Back to the games coming up.  Won't be able to watch any this weekend, but the Whitman/LC game should be a barn burner.  I'm hoping LC can't find the range in WW field house and that by the end of the weekend everything will be as it should with WW all alone at the top of the standings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 24, 2014, 09:52:09 PM
"Aid" and scholarship/grant money are very different things. I'd be curious to see what kind of academic money any of the state schools give out. Whitworth was cheaper for me than WSU or Eastern WA would have been. Both state schools offered me a whopping $1,000 in academic money and that was with a 3.8 and 1540 (when it was out of 1600) on the SAT. Unless things are very different elsewhere (and you aren't counting national merit scholars who many state schools offer full tuition scholarships to), then the WIAC kids aren't getting much free money...

Aid in the form of loans is useless. Although, it will always help you land those couple kids who DON'T realize borrowing $100k+ on an undergraduate degree is almost always a complete waste of money.

If Whitworth plays like they did in Walla Walla it shouldn't matter how well LC shoots. But I have little faith that they can string together 2 really good performances. Haven't been real consistent all year. Would love for them to prove me wrong and blow the Pios out of the water in Spokane this weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 25, 2014, 11:34:41 AM
Great win on the road for UPS, looks like they are showing that they are for real by getting one in a tough place to play as of late.

After speaking with some local kids in the Tacoma area who would be perfect fits at the DIII level, they say they would not go to schools like UPS and play cause it is not worth the debt, I agree. So when you have a recruit you like and they say that, it is hard to sell your program to these local Tacoma area kids cause most of them don't have that kind of money or the grades to help get that merit money. But hey, sorry about bringing up the money stuff, lets get back to hoops!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 26, 2014, 05:17:02 AM
Well, this weekend solidifies that the NWC crown will be decided between the Whits. There are no quiet giraffes. Yes, I know that Fox, LC, and UPS are 5-3, but they only are because Willamette are Linfield are so bad. I mean honestly,  can we move them into the SCIAC so that they can compete? LC came up empty, unable to keep it competitive in either game on the road. And UPS loses to Fox.

I see both Whits getting better as the year goes on, and if I had to bet, i see both teams running the table from here on out (except for when they square off again obviously). In order to win conference, whitman is going to need help. Even if they are able to beat WW in Spokane, GF will finish above Pacific, giving the Bucs the tie breaker unless someone else knocks them off.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 27, 2014, 01:34:53 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 24, 2014, 07:14:21 PM
Wilcat11--start saving.

I better crank it up or I have a feeling this is what I'll be seeing when I say "Honey, Western Oregon is a...good school."

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frack.1.mshcdn.com%2Fmedia%2FZgkyMDEzLzA3LzE4L2VmL0dsZWUxLjlhYzAwLmdpZgpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4%2Fc5ecf510%2Ffb6%2FGlee1.gif&hash=a7776941976ac0c7f27981688d80c3fad56e61be)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 27, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
I don't see the Whit's winning out, they both still play at UPS and UPS gave them both a tough game at their places. Plus, winning at LC is not going to be easy for Whitman, maybe I am wrong but they lost at LC every year since Bridgeland has been there. So no, I do not think they can win out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 27, 2014, 02:39:51 PM
Quote from: Keandre on January 27, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
I don't see the Whit's winning out, they both still play at UPS and UPS gave them both a tough game at their places. Plus, winning at LC is not going to be easy for Whitman, maybe I am wrong but they lost at LC every year since Bridgeland has been there. So no, I do not think they can win out.

I agree.  Unlikely either team will win out except for the WW/Whitman game.  The title is going to be decided by who wins the most games they should win. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 27, 2014, 08:44:38 PM
Quote from: Keandre on January 27, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
I don't see the Whit's winning out, they both still play at UPS and UPS gave them both a tough game at their places.

Meh, Whitworth held UPS to 49 points in Spokane. Historically UPS has been a tough place to play but that was because they one of the more talented teams. As a Pirate fan I'm much more worried about your counterparts in Parkland...PLU seems to be Whitworth's "LC", not necessarily because the Lutes have beaten the Bucs but they do seem to give them very close games despite inferior talent.

To me Whitworth winning out is more likely, but I'd handicap that prop bet as essentially a pick'em. Meaning I think it's a coin toss. Whitworth seems to be playing better basketball and the Whitman game is the only one that, on paper, looks like it could easily be a loss. I'm only a little biased, though history is on my side.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 28, 2014, 10:50:09 AM
Valid point Rat, I think I am referring more to Whitman than Whitworth, but I think UPS shoots better at home against Whitworth than they did in Spokane so maybe they have a better chance at competing with them. I will sure be there to watch I know that much lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 28, 2014, 05:49:09 PM
Quote from: Keandre on January 28, 2014, 10:50:09 AM
Valid point Rat, I think I am referring more to Whitman than Whitworth, but I think UPS shoots better at home against Whitworth than they did in Spokane so maybe they have a better chance at competing with them. I will sure be there to watch I know that much lol.

I'd agree with that. UPS should make it a much closer game at home and I wouldn't be shocked if they won the way Whitworth has played "most" of this season. The NWC has had more than its fair share of surprising results this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 29, 2014, 01:33:37 AM
Go 'Cats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2014, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: (509)RatThe NWC has had more than its fair share of surprising results this season.

Just gonna go ahead and quote myself in regards to Linfield beating GF....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 29, 2014, 11:02:50 AM
Congrats to Linfield.  Great win and hopefully this bodes well for the program in the future. 

GF is up and down!!!  They beat the top team in the conference and lost to the bottom team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 30, 2014, 10:59:27 AM
Anything can happen when you lace'em up!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 01, 2014, 10:38:04 PM
Great weekend for the Bucs!!!!  Since the loss to GF they have played great basketball.  Hopefully they can keep it going next week in the always challenging Tacoma trip. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 02, 2014, 02:44:04 PM
Oh hey, by the way, the best player in the conference came back this weekend. 

I sure hope Whitworth doesn't stumble in T-town either...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 03, 2014, 11:59:07 AM
Big weekend for UPS, getting wins on the road in the NWC is not easy. They will beat one of the Whits this weekend, regardless if the best player in the league is back. I wouldn't be surprised if UPS gets both, they are grinding out some pretty good wins. I hope to see some of you out in Tacoma this weekend.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 03, 2014, 06:45:27 PM
What is going on with Duckworth from Whitman? Seems like as soon as I gave him praise, he was never in box score.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 05, 2014, 04:23:13 PM
Whitworth has been playing very good basketball as of late. They steamrolled L&C and Pacific after beating Whitman on the road. I don't thimk there is any way UPS wins both games this weekend. In fact, I think I'd be more surprised with UPS knocking off either Whitman or Whitworth than seeing them drop both games to the Whits. That's not because anything UPS has done lately, rather Whitworth is finally inspiring some confidence and Whitman gets their best player back.

Since I said all that and nobody has any idea what is going on most nights in the conference this year, UPS will win both and move up to 2nd place in the conference...  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 06, 2014, 12:25:12 PM
Rat,

The board has been a little quiet lately. Is everyone bored with WW winning?  It has been an amazing run.  You have to go back to the 04-05 season to see WW drop below 2nd in the league.  Including this year, WW has lost a total of 5 league games in 5 years (3 of those losses were to Whitman). However, it's not just WW winning, I think it is the lackluster play of traditionally strong teams like Willamette and Linfield and the inconsistent play of the rest of the Oregon and Tacoma teams that is making the league a little less interesting.  Not much for those fans to post about.  I'm enjoying the run, but I do think the league has been down the last couple years.  I hope the Oregon and the Tacoma teams can raise their level of play and make the league interesting again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 07, 2014, 03:19:00 AM
Thanks A Buc Forever for making a very subtle but true point. Is it fair to make the following argument (And I would love to hear Pat Coleman's insight)...

Is Bridgeland the top D3 coach in the country?

Check the resume. UC Santa Cruz, to UPS, to Whitman?  Whitman?! Whitman?! We're talking about Whitman? Whitman?

If Whitman goes Final 4 this year, can we agree?

By now can't we all see that theyre going dancing this year while WW is sitting at home in their tux without a prom date?

Correct me if I'm wrong, is this Logie's first true WW class?

And there is no reason for WW or Linfield not to win this conference every year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 07, 2014, 03:21:48 AM
Quote from: Keandre on February 03, 2014, 11:59:07 AMI wouldn't be surprised if UPS gets both, they are grinding out some pretty good wins

From a credibility standpoint, I thought this was worth reposting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on February 07, 2014, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 07, 2014, 03:19:00 AM
Is Bridgeland the top D3 coach in the country?
Check the resume. UC Santa Cruz, to UPS, to Whitman?  Whitman?! Whitman?! We're talking about Whitman? Whitman?
If Whitman goes Final 4 this year, can we agree?
By now can't we all see that theyre going dancing this year while WW is sitting at home in their tux without a prom date?
Correct me if I'm wrong, is this Logie's first true WW class?
And there is no reason for WW or Linfield not to win this conference every year.

Obviously a very subjective question and I think there are a lot of potential correct answers.  However, I have a hard time saying Bridgeland is a better coach than Hixon @ Amherst, Moore @ Wooster, Maker @ Williams, or Bob Semling at UWSP.  You can't really go wrong with any of those five guys obviously but if you are going to look at teams going all the way to Final Fours & Championships Bridgeland does get edged out there. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 07, 2014, 05:50:15 PM
Looks like the 'Cats picked up a 6' 5" player from 1A Horizon Christian.

http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/-7045266311322824964/columbia-christian-an-inevitable-1a-state-champion-horizon-christian-coach-says-were-going-to-beat-them/ (http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/-7045266311322824964/columbia-christian-an-inevitable-1a-state-champion-horizon-christian-coach-says-were-going-to-beat-them/)

They have a 6-foot-5 post in Matt Totaro who has signed at Linfield, and other solid contributors such as guard Jared Davis and forward Mason Bloomster.

not going to roll my eyes at the "signed" thing because I've given up on papers getting that right at the d3 level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2014, 07:12:53 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 06, 2014, 12:25:12 PM
Rat,

The board has been a little quiet lately. Is everyone bored with WW winning? 

I'm not  ;D

And I don't think the winning ought to be considered a "run". Only in the sense that "run" generally implies that it cannot be sustained. The only intelligent thing that came out of blackhawk's post was that there is no reason Whitworth should not win the conference every year. I agree with that. In a competitive conference you are bound to have a season here and there where somebody knocks you off, especially in basketball with a conference tournament. But I see no reason why Whitworth cannot be one of the most talented teams in the league (if not the most talented) year in and year out. You have an administration that is easy to work with and very supportive of athletics. Cost of attendance is very competitive compared to the rest of the conference. You have a tradition of winning and can practically guarantee a kid he'll get to play in the national tourney. You have the best home crowd in the entire Western United States as far as d3 basketball is concerned (sorry WIAC, you are not "Western"). You fly to almost every away game...

Someday Whitman will actually beat Whitworth when it counts. Someday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2014, 09:01:09 PM
I agree.  I don't see WW getting knocked off the pedestal any time soon.  Yes Bridgeland has made WM the second best team in the conference, but Logie is still 4-2 against them. 

As for Linfield, I'm not betting on them if this Matt Totaro is a big time recruit for them.  I checked out his highlight film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlqr_LfJ9wA  Decent looking athlete, but he's not someone that is going to come into the NWC and dominate physically and his game is all within 10 feet of the basket.  Compare his highlight film to Kenny Love's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4ZmHdBs54  No comparison in his overall game or the competition he's playing against.

I have heard more than one DIII coach say say you don't win with DIII guys.  You win by getting players that the DI guys miss on or who have a slight flaw (a little slow, a little small, etc).  I haven't seen anyone that the new coach has brought in that would make it as a practice player at a DI school.  To give you an idea of the talent that WW brings in, a few years ago, a player that played at Whitworth his freshman year--Ben Lowen.  He realized he wouldn't play much at WW and decided he'd rather be a practice player at WSU rather than WW.  He made WSU as a practice guy and then when they had some injuries and Klay Thompson got busted for pot, he started a couple games. 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 08, 2014, 12:57:30 AM
UPS will have to get their win tomorrow night against Whitman.

Whitworth 84
UPS 74
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 08, 2014, 01:20:50 AM
Whitman 71
PLU 57

Linfield v LC was postponed
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on February 08, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
To win at D3 teams need at least a level above in talent. To be competitive in conference you need at least 2-3 guys that would have a realistic chance of playing at the next level. To win conference those figures increase. To win national titles you need more. Player development and coaching help but at the end of the day you need the athletes.

Especially valuable would be backcourt players of next level talent.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 08, 2014, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 07, 2014, 07:12:53 PM
You have the best home crowd in the entire Western United States as far as d3 basketball is concerned (sorry WIAC, you are not "Western"). You fly to almost every away game...

The WIAC is actually moving to the Midwest region in a year or two with realignment. It doesn't matter too much in terms of administrative regions... but it will be an interesting "rebalance" of power in terms of regional rankings.

One of the things they're trying to do is rebalance the region sizes and thus the number of teams which are regionally ranked (now it's just a ratio of the teams in the region).


And I've got to give props to Whitworth's crowds. I've watched a handful of games online over the years and I've been pretty impressed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 08, 2014, 03:39:38 PM
Silly Rat. Go ahead and put the date Saturday, March 1st into your calendar.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2014, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on February 08, 2014, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 07, 2014, 07:12:53 PM
You have the best home crowd in the entire Western United States as far as d3 basketball is concerned (sorry WIAC, you are not "Western"). You fly to almost every away game...

The WIAC is actually moving to the Midwest region in a year or two with realignment.

... and it will be called the Central Region rather than the Midwest Region, so that the men's and women's regions synch up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 08, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 08, 2014, 03:39:38 PM
Silly Rat. Go ahead and put the date Saturday, March 1st into your calendar.



Whitman has dug themselves in a hole as far as winning the conference championship.  They will have to beat WW at WW, hope WW drops another game to someone else, and then WM has to run the table in the other games.  At this point I'd bet on WW to win the championship.  Granted, the league tournament is the most important crown to win since that determines the automatic bid, but winning the regular season gives a team home court advantage. Again, I'd bet on WW over WM if the game is played in the field house at WW.  I'll leave it to Rat to tell us how many years in a row WW has been to the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 08, 2014, 08:53:02 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 08, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
I'll leave it to Rat to tell us how many years in a row WW has been to the NCAA tournament.

Thanks to a freak snowmobiling accident I don't have that many fingers left...

Whitman fans will know though since they've been sitting at home watching all of them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 08, 2014, 11:02:20 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 08, 2014, 08:53:02 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 08, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
I'll leave it to Rat to tell us how many years in a row WW has been to the NCAA tournament.

Thanks to a freak snowmobiling accident I don't have that many fingers left...

Whitman fans will know though since they've been sitting at home watching all of them.

Last time Whitman won a share of the league title (which they shared with Pacific and Willamette): The Bangles "Walk Like An Egyptian" was the no. 1 song, "The Simpsons" had yet to begin their first season, Ronald Reagan was POTUS, a gallon of gas cost 89 cents, Nelson Mandela still had three more years in prison before being released, and Jack Sikma was in the midst of setting an NBA record with 51-consecutive FT makes.

I won't even begin on the last time Whitman won an outright title...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2014, 12:41:07 AM
Unless there's an eight point shot that I don't know about, it was a completely classless ending in Tacoma. There is absolutely no excuse for lining up a screen from 50 ft away and dropping your shoulder to blindside a defender with :6 seconds left in a game.

Were it a legal screen, which it wasn't, it's completely classless when the game is over.

Why doesn't the defensive line go full speed on the last kneel down? And don't give me the "we play hard to the last minute bs."

I also wish that this was an isolated incident in the game, but it wasn't. This wasn't tough basketball, it was downright dirty. Much as the Richard Sherman's antics are not a reflection of the Seahawks, nor should this player's antics be deemed a reflection of the UPS team. They're solid, and have a chance of knocking off Whitworth in the 2 vs 3 playoff game.

A buc forever and rat, I like that you're arguing, but you dont know what you're arguing against. Picture WW playing their first 15 games without Michael Taylor. 

Want a hint? Add up the minutes for Eisenhart and Martin. I'm assuming you went to WW, so here's some math help: if the numbers equal greater than 40, there's something suspicious going on.

Wait til you see 6'10 NWC POTY on the court with 6'9 Martin and 6'7 Chircu in Spokane.

Sorry gentleman, the last time WMN won the 'ship may have been in the 80s, but talk to me about Bridgelands resume.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 09, 2014, 01:37:51 AM
When discussing Bridgelands resume am I allowed to reference his time at Pepperdine?

And when did Eisenhart win, or when was he even in the discussion for national POTY? I mean, we're comparing him to Michael Taylor right? Apples and Oranges but it was a nice try and I get what you're saying. Maybe I'll start getting worried when he can play more than 16 min in a game.

PS the women's basketball forum is the next one down...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 09, 2014, 03:35:10 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2014, 12:41:07 AM
Sorry gentleman, the last time WMN won the 'ship may have been in the 80s, but talk to me about Bridgelands resume.

If Whitworth wins the 'ship this year, he will have as many NWC rings as Bridgeland. Yeah, Logie inherited more, but Bridgeland has zero NWC titles with "his guys" at Whitman after five full seasons there. This would be a sixth. There is nobody here that would dispute that Bridgeland is a good coach, but best in the country? C'mon, man.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2014, 04:27:24 AM
By all means, Rat. Please do, and reference away.

Rat, while you're at it--please bring your boy Pinecone up to speed.

Pinecone, let me see if I can use your words correctly, "C'mon man."

Tell me about another team coming from obscurity to go 44-4 with 3 NWC championships in 3 years and a couple sweet 16 and elite 8 appearances--before walking away.

Tell me about Whitman's record for 20 years before Bridgelands arrival.

Rat--Please also inform your boy Pinecone about how when I brought up the question about Bridgeland being the best D3 coach in the country, an out of conference poster chimed in referencing him with other elites (who have won titles. And for the record, although i think he's in the conversation, I think Bridgeland needs a title before we call him the top D3 coach in the country).

Honestly, Pinecone, you're embarrassing yourself. Let Rat and A Buc Forver fight your battles for you.

Remember this much too please.

I'm the one weeks ago said that the Whits would win out (except against each other obviously). The rest of the board scoffed.

I'm the one who is on record telling you that Whitman wins the conference this year.--By the way, Whitman beats WW, and Whitman claims the crown (with a better record against the top of the conference).

I'm the one who told you that Whitman goes dancing when they win the conference tourney.

I'm the one who told you months ago that WMN will meet UWSP again.

Just wait...

Whitman needs to be healthy and they need time playing together. Ps. Sophomore stud Tochi Oti showed unbelievable maturity this weekend deferring to WMNs bigs and Mournier, but I'd love to see him find his way on a team with so much talent.

Keandre--good call this weekend.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on February 09, 2014, 11:19:11 AM
My "out of conference" poster resume: my bro played for PLU (parents and sister also graduated from there), niece currently goes to Linfield, nephew may attend Pacific starting next year, and other nephew's former teammate plays for PLU now so I follow him. Just because I don't post often doesn't mean I haven't followed the conference since I was a little kid decades ago.  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2014, 04:45:07 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2014, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on February 08, 2014, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 07, 2014, 07:12:53 PM
You have the best home crowd in the entire Western United States as far as d3 basketball is concerned (sorry WIAC, you are not "Western"). You fly to almost every away game...

The WIAC is actually moving to the Midwest region in a year or two with realignment.

... and it will be called the Central Region rather than the Midwest Region, so that the men's and women's regions synch up.

And furthermore, make the men's and women's regions identical in makeup as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2014, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2014, 04:27:24 AM
By all means, Rat. Please do, and reference
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2014, 04:27:24 AM

I'm the one who is on record telling you that Whitman wins the conference this year.--By the way, Whitman beats WW, and Whitman claims the crown (with a better record against the top of the conference).







I had it wrong about WW getting the top spot if WM beats WW and they both win out.   I was thinking a loss to a better team should put you above the team that lost to a worse team. So WW has to beat WM and win out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2014, 12:44:54 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2014, 10:10:43 AM

I had it wrong about WW getting the top spot if WM beats WW and they both win out.   I was thinking a loss to a better team should put you above the team that lost to a worse team. So WW has to beat WM and win out.

I'm guilty of the same thinking, A Buc.

Which leads me to this:  It's ridiculous that I'm checking the Pacific/George Fox live stats right now because it has Conference Champion implications.  If two teams finish tied atop the standings and they split with each other, can we please do a one game playoff?! Winner takes all.

And for god's sake can we get rid of this playoff tournament?  This isn't D1 hoops where you can send 8 teams from a conference to the tourney.  If you win conference, you deserve to go to the tourney.  As a conference, we should send the team who is our best representation, proven by the best conference record. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 12, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Well said, Blackhawk!  Totally agree.  It is just for stats and PR ("We made the playoffs last year", etc) for the other 3 teams.  fortunately, the only time in the last several years when the league champion did not win it, they also got an at-large bid (WW and UPS).  But it is a waste of time, opens the lone playoff team to injuries, and has the potential of keeping the best team out of the national playoff.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 13, 2014, 03:06:06 AM
Just to play devils advocate, but why not have the tournament?  You play the whole conference season for seeding and then you have to earn your spot.  If your team is really the best squad, the tournament should be a prep for what's to come (rowdy crowds, homer refs(Spokane)  ;D). And as for opening the team up for injuries, that's kind of a worn out argument.  You could get injured at any time of the year playing hoops, what's another couple games?  Why take away a fun and entertaining atmosphere from three other teams?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2014, 07:19:19 PM
Spoken like a fan of an average team, Playball. 

The only 4 team conference tournament that I want to watch is the George Fox & Whitman women taking on the Linfield and Willamette men.--You put those games on a neutral court, and I think it's a coin flip.

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 13, 2014, 11:52:07 PM
At least playball didn't bail on his team...

Your old posts and your email address are all visible to the rest of us, genius.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 14, 2014, 12:36:35 AM
(509) Sleuth
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 14, 2014, 03:47:58 AM
Quote from: playball on February 13, 2014, 03:06:06 AM
Just to play devils advocate, but why not have the tournament?

If this is the Glynn of the UPS of old, I think you failed to read my first sentence.  Also, UPS has been so stellar since Lunt has taken over and has his own guys there.  I guess you would know something about being a fan of mediocre.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 14, 2014, 04:00:11 AM
Adding to playballs point about the conference tournament being a good thing...

It really shouldn't matter who wins. The teams in the NWC should be taking care of business, scheduling good d3 competition and getting those wins against regionally ranked opponents. You wouldn't have to worry about winning the conference tournament if 2 teams got in regularly. But nooooo, Whitman loses to Old Westbury, Chicago, and Wash U. Maybe instead of complaining about the conference tourney (which is an argument that doesn't make sense if you're a Whitman fan and is practically word for word recycled from blackhawks UPS fandom days), you should probably complain about Bridgeland going 5-4 against non-conference d3 opponents.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2014, 10:14:58 AM
No shame in losing to Wash U ...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on February 14, 2014, 05:22:47 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 13, 2014, 11:52:07 PM
At least playball didn't bail on his team...

Your old posts and your email address are all visible to the rest of us, genius.

Blackhawk down💥
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2014, 07:19:36 PM
Rat, I thought you were better than this.  I overestimated.

Please tell your cheerleaders that we hashtagged it up on Twitter months ago sans username.  You look less like Sherlock Holmes, and more like Inspector Gadget.

Rat, whether its required donning Navy & Gold, Maroon, Orange & Navy, and then Royal Blue, my allegiance has never changed.

In Spokane you sit on your pedestal, where you've earned the right to sit, but what you can't fathom is that while you continue to renovate the same ole' Sweet 16 team that comes up short on a National level year after year, your neighbor to the north started by building ground up.

And unstrap your seatbelts gentleman, because when Whitman takes the title from you, it's going to be like what happened years ago in Tacoma, when your ride ended, and the title left, and you didn't get it back until the Waves rolled in.

Lucky for us, we don't have to wait long for our little soiree.  The appetizer is 4 days away, followed by the main course on March 1st.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 14, 2014, 07:27:54 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2014, 07:19:36 PM
your neighbor to the north started by building ground up.

Canada?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2014, 07:50:16 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 14, 2014, 07:27:54 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2014, 07:19:36 PM
your neighbor to the north started by building ground up.

Canada?

Last time I checked a map, Walla Walla was south-southwest of Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 14, 2014, 08:19:00 PM
I don't know what I did other than point out the obvious. Didn't post anything I found. Google is a magical thing though. Somehow it's my fault though that you got cocky and someone else spilled the beans? You're unbelievable...and more in a "I don't regularly interact with people who think/behave like you so I'm genuinely shocked" kind of way.

Directions can be hard when you follow around a guy that just now learned to stay in one place for more than a few years. For Whitman's sake (it won't matter to you since you'll be on to the next Bridgeland reclamation project), I almost hope they win a conference title here soon. Otherwise the actual fans and alumni will lose your beloved coach. Just like everyone else has. Always bigger and better things for Bridgeland.

I'll take the sustained success regardless of no national title. I consistently have a very good team to cheer for in the best d3 atmosphere on the west coast. I've celebrated as many national titles as you have so I guess I fail to understand how your pot shot is even that. Hell, I fail to understand most of your ramblings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2014, 01:59:01 AM
Would now be an appropriate time to post the final score in Walla Walla?

George Fox 98
Whitman 95

The Pirates just need to play like they have been ever since the GF loss and the auto bid once again goes through Spokane. GF is streaky but actually very very good when they're "on". Should be a fun one tomorrow night...not that tonight's bloodbath wasn't.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 15, 2014, 03:17:25 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 15, 2014, 01:59:01 AM
George Fox 98
Whitman 95

Gotta love the typical Bridgeland letdown game(s). Were they caught looking past GF toward Linfield ;D Blackhawk, you're right. GREATEST COACH EVAR! (And that's coming from a fan of Whitworth, the school that's now apparently down south.)

Gotta agree with Rat, Blackhawk is unbelievable in a "I don't regularly interact with people who think/behave like you so I'm genuinely shocked" kind of way. See you Tuesday.

Bucs roll tonight. Not really much of a game. Linfield has one shooter and the Bucs limited him to just five shots all night, and only one of those was an open look. The Linfield bigs were pretty bad and almost everyone on their roster turns the ball over a ton (19 tonight). They've got a looooong way to go down in McMinnville. Seems like their coach has quite the fiery (read: negative) personality. Guess there's probably not too much to be pumped about except the return of Batiuk next year. Whitworth now has a two game lead with three remaining. However, all three remaining (GF, Whitman, @LC) scare the heck out of me. Should be a great game tomorrow vs. GF! Hope the students come fired up.

On a side note, nice win for Pacific tonight at PLU. They are quietly just a half game behind GF and LC for the final playoff spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 15, 2014, 11:37:16 AM
I do feel a little bad for Whitman. It's tough when a team shoots 50% from 3. With Grant going 7-10 from beyond the arc. It's a lot like Whitworth's game down in OR. GF couldn't miss and there's nothing you can do to stay in that game.

Here's to hoping GF stays streaky and used up all their made buckets last night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 15, 2014, 03:38:36 PM
Geography majors, I see...All of you.  An eight sentence post and "north" is what I'm dragged over the coals for.  Tough crowd. 

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 15, 2014, 01:59:01 AM
Would now be an appropriate time to post the final score in Walla Walla?

George Fox 98
Whitman 95
Now would be as appropriate of a time as ever.  The score above is giving Whitman way more credit than they deserve.  This game was not close.  Whitman looked...exactly like they should.  They're trying to find their identity as a team.  And that's okay.  They should be.
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 12, 2014, 01:58:41 PM
If/when he comes back expect a game or two of rust as the team adapts to him on the court. Once they get firing on all cylinders this team can be dangerous on a national level. 
The difficult part is that they need to figure it out in 2 weeks, and they still haven't played a game all season with their entire roster available.

Side note:  The caliber of shot that AJ Grant has the audacity to take is impressive.  The kid has no conscience.  He put on quite a show.



 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 15, 2014, 03:46:50 PM
Rat/Pinceone...Breathe.  What are they pumping into your water up north that gets you so fired up?  Personal and behavioral conduct reprimands on a chat board?  My goodness, gentlemen.  We're all friends here.
 
And I don't know that I ever said "GREATEST COACH EVAR!"  Again, keep it together gentlemen.  I believe I suggested that his name should be mentioned in the conversation about best coach in the country at our level.   
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 14, 2014, 08:19:00 PM
I'll take the sustained success regardless of no national title. I consistently have a very good team to cheer for.

Rat, I appreciate this.  But let's agree that while this may satisfy you and the team your root for, there's others who this doesn't satisfy.  There are people out there who are searching for "bigger and better."  And that's not a bad thing.  This is fun, let's talk soon boys.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2014, 07:27:26 PM
A tad late in the season to be struggling with team identity.


So Linfield beats Fox, and Fox beats Whitman, does that mean if Whitman beats Whitworth Linfield wins the conference?! Haha ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2014, 07:46:57 PM
Even if WW when's the conference tourney,  their road to Salem will be tougher than in years past.  Their lack of post presence is shocking.  Farnsworth not recording a point in 14 minutes against a VERY small Linfield squad has to be cause for concern.  We've discussed this on the board before, but the WW bigs need to step it up for any chance at the Sweet Sixteen.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 15, 2014, 07:51:20 PM
And props to AJ Grant for lighting up Whitman, but that's an easy place to shoot! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2014, 12:26:45 AM
First of all blackhawks doesn't get to come in here, run his mouth, say stupid things, whine and complain, play the victim and then act like the level headed one. I chose not to go into psychiatry but from the little I remember he may want to go see a Dr.

GF is once again out of their minds from 3. Over 50% so far. They were leading 51-40 at the half. Whitworth has cut it to 61-58 with 13 min left. How have the Bruins lost to anyone besides the home loss to Whitman???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2014, 12:47:20 AM
Looks like Tuesday is going to matter after all. Whitworth back down by 11. Don't know why they are still daring GF to shoot the 3. But that's why I'm not the coach. Logie has always seemed to have great gameplans, I just don't know enough to understand this one.

Farnsworth is very strong and athletic. He just isn't very good at basketball I guess. Whitworth won't go as far without a strong post player that's for sure. Don't think Farnsworth or Wilkes will ever be the answer.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2014, 01:10:24 AM
GF struggles to finish again. This time it's going to OT
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2014, 01:27:19 AM
Final
Whitworth 105
GF 101
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2014, 01:41:51 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 16, 2014, 01:27:19 AM
Final
Whitworth 105
GF 101

Looks like GF really sh*# the bed on this one.  Up 10 with 1:24 left and almost lost it in regulation before losing in OT.  Wow, melt down or was WW just on fire that last minute or so?

http://nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/boxscores/20140215_3rpv.xml
Linfield plays in front of 50,000 fans at the Sherwood Center.  I know Whitman has been upgrading facilities but that is just unreal!   ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 16, 2014, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: playball on February 15, 2014, 07:27:26 PM
So Linfield beats Fox, and Fox beats Whitman, does that mean if Whitman beats Whitworth Linfield wins the conference?! Haha ;D

Can I take this one step further by pointing out that Willamette beat Linfield? :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2014, 01:56:13 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 16, 2014, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: playball on February 15, 2014, 07:27:26 PM
So Linfield beats Fox, and Fox beats Whitman, does that mean if Whitman beats Whitworth Linfield wins the conference?! Haha ;D

Can I take this one step further by pointing out that Willamette beat Linfield? :o

That's really all you got going for you at the moment so yeah. Run with it BP
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2014, 02:21:40 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on February 16, 2014, 01:42:37 AM
Quote from: playball on February 15, 2014, 07:27:26 PM
So Linfield beats Fox, and Fox beats Whitman, does that mean if Whitman beats Whitworth Linfield wins the conference?! Haha ;D

Can I take this one step further by pointing out that Willamette beat Linfield? :o

No.  But +k for making me laugh out loud in my house
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 16, 2014, 12:25:21 PM
Congrats to GF for the best Eastern Washington showing I can recall since bridgeland has been at WM. 

First live WW game I've been to in a couple years. I've seen bigger crowds there but they are wilder than ever.  Awesome atmosphere. Not to mention awesome comeback. 

Best part of the comeback was seeing some strong play from WW's younger players.

As I said earlier Whitman won't win the title until they beat who they should beat. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 16, 2014, 05:39:52 PM
I watched a large piece of the Fox/Whitworth game.  Painful for two reasons:

(1) Watching WW.  I'm almost certain that I've heard WW fans admit that they don’t actually enjoy watching WW games.  They compared it to going to the dentist—usually satisfied with the end result but sitting in the chair is miserable.  A Buc, do you think  maybe the student body was so wild because they were being held at the arena against their will?

(2) Fox:  It’s really hard to shoot free throws when your hands are around your neck.  Are you kidding me?

I don’t know anything about Fox’s coach but I did like his sideline demeanor.  I think there’s a ton of potential in Newberg.  It will be interesting to see him get some of “his guys.”  What I don’t like: Their shot selection is as poor as it gets, which to me explains their record.  When they’re hot, they can beat anybody in the conference.  When they’re not--Linfield.

WW, finding ways to win games that they shouldn't.  Sign of a conference champion.

A quick glance at the playoff standings and unless I’m mistaken, everyone except Whitman controls their own fate.  Unless LC can take down WW, our little appetizer on Tuesday is more than likely just going to be for bragging rights.  Is there any way that WW-WMN doesn't come down to the last possession?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 16, 2014, 08:36:35 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 16, 2014, 05:39:52 PM
(1) Watching WW.  I'm almost certain that I've heard WW fans admit that they don't actually enjoy watching WW games.  They compared it to going to the dentist—usually satisfied with the end result but sitting in the chair is miserable.  A Buc, do you think  maybe the student body was so wild because they were being held at the arena against their will?


I watched 3 games in 5 hours Saturday night. Eastern Washington vs N Arizona. Mead high vs Central Valley and WW vs GF.  By far the most fun basketball and atmosphere was WW vs GF.

Two questions to fellow posters:

Have you ever seen a Quaker with tattoos?

I've dated several women since being widowed a haven't found a keeper.  The latest hit all the games with me and enjoyed herself. Is she a keeper?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 16, 2014, 10:47:38 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 16, 2014, 08:36:35 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 16, 2014, 05:39:52 PM
(1) Watching WW.  I'm almost certain that I've heard WW fans admit that they don't actually enjoy watching WW games.  They compared it to going to the dentist—usually satisfied with the end result but sitting in the chair is miserable.  A Buc, do you think  maybe the student body was so wild because they were being held at the arena against their will?


I watched 3 games in 5 hours Saturday night. Eastern Washington vs N Arizona. Mead high vs Central Valley and WW vs GF.  By far the most fun basketball and atmosphere was WW vs GF.

Two questions to fellow posters:

Have you ever seen a Quaker with tattoos?

I've dated several women since being widowed a haven't found a keeper.  The latest hit all the games with me and enjoyed herself. Is she a keeper?

A couple questions to help your opinion Buc.

1) Does she know what is going on?
2) Did she yell at the ref because of an obvious missed call?
3) Do you know if she fills out a march madness bracket?

Speaking of, is anyone interested in filling out brackets here on the board or joining an ESPN bracket?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: JahEazy on February 17, 2014, 04:52:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8F1q7lJy0g

It's not a great dunk but in my two years of watching DIII basketball, I'd say that dunks are rare to come by. Plus, 'Budweiser Hawkins III' is a pretty dope name.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 17, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
Quote from: JahEazy on February 17, 2014, 04:52:56 AM
It's not a great dunk but in my two years of watching DIII basketball, I'd say that dunks are rare to come by. Plus, 'Budweiser Hawkins III' is a pretty dope name.

Too bad it wasn't a dunk on an alley-oop pass from Wettig to Hawkins. That would have been a Mitchell lob.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on February 17, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 17, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
Quote from: JahEazy on February 17, 2014, 04:52:56 AM
It's not a great dunk but in my two years of watching DIII basketball, I'd say that dunks are rare to come by. Plus, 'Budweiser Hawkins III' is a pretty dope name.

Too bad it wasn't a dunk on an alley-oop pass from Wettig to Hawkins. That would have been a Mitchell lob.

OxyBob
There you go again.  Horsing around. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 17, 2014, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: Gray Fox on February 17, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
There you go again.  Horsing around.

I think you meant that in the Pabst tense.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2014, 04:33:00 PM
OxyBob - +1... very well done.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on February 17, 2014, 05:21:46 PM
Was in Walla Walla and managed to catch the Wildcats at Whitman.  Definite talent difference between the teams especially on the inside.. The 'Cats need 2-3 big guys.. at least 6'8" or so.. guys like former 'Cats Konrad Ross, Joel Holland, Todd Baker, or Beau Burggraff from my time at Linfield.  Some of our young guards look to have lots of potential.

Guys kept trying to take charges... with the new NCAA guidelines on block/charges those are going to be especially difficult calls to get and probably not an effective tactic.  The demeanor of the new coach was excellent especially considering that they are at the tail end of a very difficult season.

Can't stand losing to Whitman in hoops... one of my best Whitman memories growing up in Wall Walla was their student body chanting to CWU while being destroyed... "That's all right, that's okay, you'll work for us one day..."  That and the incredible discipline of WallaBall that Coach Mastin employed.  Guys blocking out like demons on both ends.. running the break and ending up with wide open 15-18' baseline jumpers... he won when we had talent which wasn't often..

Will be interesting to see how long the success at Whitman lasts once Bridgeland leaves as everyone knows he isn't going to be there very long.. I'm surprised he has as long as he has..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: JahEazy on February 17, 2014, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 17, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
Quote from: JahEazy on February 17, 2014, 04:52:56 AM
It's not a great dunk but in my two years of watching DIII basketball, I'd say that dunks are rare to come by. Plus, 'Budweiser Hawkins III' is a pretty dope name.

Too bad it wasn't a dunk on an alley-oop pass from Wettig to Hawkins. That would have been a Mitchell lob.

OxyBob

lol well don't remember who it was, but they did try to do that on the next play but I guess Hawkins jumped too early and had to end up laying it in but he missed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 17, 2014, 10:38:36 PM
QuoteI think you meant that in the Pabst tense.

Of Coors he did.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 17, 2014, 10:41:58 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 17, 2014, 10:38:36 PM
QuoteI think you meant that in the Pabst tense.

Of Coors he did.


Bob is always living the High Life.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2014, 12:11:05 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 16, 2014, 05:39:52 PM


I don't know anything about Fox's coach but I did like his sideline demeanor.  I think there's a ton of potential in Newberg.  It will be interesting to see him get some of "his guys."  What I don't like: Their shot selection is as poor as it gets, which to me explains their record.  When they're hot, they can beat anybody in the conference.  When they're not--Linfield.

WW, finding ways to win games that they shouldn't.  Sign of a conference champion.

A quick glance at the playoff standings and unless I'm mistaken, everyone except Whitman controls their own fate.  Unless LC can take down WW, our little appetizer on Tuesday is more than likely just going to be for bragging rights.  Is there any way that WW-WMN doesn't come down to the last possession?

Interesting battle for the last playoff slot. If LC beats Fox I guess they are in. Fox needs to beat LC and then win the same number of games LC does in the other two games.  Here are the schedules:

LC plays Fox, WW, WM
Fox plays LC, UPS, Willamette.

I'm actually picking Fox on this one.

The Bucs have their work cut out for them.  I think it is likely they win the conference championship, but to win the tournament they will have to beat Fox or LC--whichever one it is is not a gimme.  As Blackhawk 4 astutely pointed out, Fox is hard to beat if they get hot (you can probably say the same for LC).  As for Fox's shot selection, it wasn't great but I've seen worse.  If I was going to point out a weakness in their game I'd say they don't run their sets well and they reach and grab too much on defense.  Then if WW beats Fox/LC, they'll have to beat WM. That's a tough road.  I hope they can finish the regular season without picking up another loss and then if they stumble in the league tourney they should still get a bid.  Two losses over the next couple weeks might keep them out of the tournament.

Feb 18--The Game for the Gutter--I've got Linfield--just to bring some hope and joy to Playball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 18, 2014, 03:24:47 AM
Finishing up with a three game stretch that's all close to home (Forest Grove is close enough) and I think (naively) that the cats go 3-0.


Walla Walla, did you play basketball at Linfield?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on February 18, 2014, 02:28:17 PM
No... I was a step slow and a shot short to play ball at the D3 level... I was asked if I was interested in playing basketball at Lewis and Clark by their now retired great coach after a game my senior season at Wa-Hi... I had already committed to play football at Linfield... I did play tons of basketball at Linfield and am friends with several guys who did play there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: JahEazy on February 18, 2014, 07:03:53 PM
How do tie breakers work?
I'm assuming if they split, they go to points?
Like is it even possible for Pacific to make the 4th spot?

This whole time I was thinking that GFU had to win out and Lewis and Clark had to lose out and then if we just win our last two games, we'd be in. But then I think we'd be tied with Puget Sound. Or what if GFU were to somehow lose to Willamette (I mean they did lose to Linfield so it could happen lol)?

That would make three times with 7 losses.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 19, 2014, 01:27:09 AM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on February 18, 2014, 02:28:17 PM
No... I was a step slow and a shot short to play ball at the D3 level... I was asked if I was interested in playing basketball at Lewis and Clark by their now retired great coach after a game my senior season at Wa-Hi... I had already committed to play football at Linfield... I did play tons of basketball at Linfield and am friends with several guys who did play there.

So did you end up playing football at Linfield?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 19, 2014, 02:03:13 AM
It was a very giving night in Spokane.  WW tried hard to give WMN the game.  WMN refused the gesture and tried harder to successfully give it back.  If the NWC performs as poorly as they did tonight, the SCIAC might take us down.

WMN: 16-28 from the FT line with 17 TO's, while getting their shot blocked about 10 times.  They gotta get more from everyone besides #2.

WW shot 6-17 from 3 despite standing out there naked all night. They also had a 5 minute stint where they turned the ball over every time.  They did do a nice job of cutting off the rim on defense though, and they almost always make the extra pass on offense. 

#3 and #20 once again torch WMN.  When's the game is on the line and #3 has the ball it scares the bejesus out of me.

Refereeing was as sloppy as the game, but didn't influence the outcome at all.  I'm all for the idea of replay, but these three seemed to use it as a crutch for indecisiveness instead of an added benefit.

I actually like Logie's presence, too--he's no pushover.  That said, how long is he going to keep that unnecessarily risky inbound play?  And I'm not a big "foul when you're up 3" guy either, but I guess that's why I'm sitting in front of my computer typing right now while he's popping the champagne again? 

Congrats to WW on a conference championship...another conference championship.  Now all you have to do to advance to the tournament is beat George Fox...again, and Whitman...for a third time this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 19, 2014, 10:53:32 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 19, 2014, 02:03:13 AMIf the NWC performs as poorly as they did tonight, the SCIAC might take us down.

This would be the year. But you have to remember, the top team in the SCIAC lost to Pacific 53-35 then beat Willamette by 2. Granted that was early in the season and they have surely gotten better. The next best team (P-P) also lost to Pacific back in Dec. 72-66. I saw Chapman play in person and I don't think the SCIAC has a team that has a shot at the NCAA tourney (CMS, P-P, Cal Lu, Chapman) who would scare you on your home court.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 19, 2014, 02:03:13 AMactually like Logie's presence, too--he's no pushover....And I'm not a big "foul when you're up 3" guy either, but I guess that's why I'm sitting in front of my computer typing right now while he's popping the champagne again? 

The foul when up 3 debate is interesting to me. There really isn't a right or wrong answer when you look at the 2-3 "studies" that have been done. However, I think last night, given Whitman's FT troubles fouling was absolutely the right call.

Whitworth will get GF at home to start the conference tourney. I don't see the Pios winning either game this weekend and with GF taking a game from both Whitworth and Whitman, they would hold any tiebreaker over L&C. That's a bummer because GF is shooting about 95% against the Pirates this year...well, if you don't count the last 90 seconds of their last game...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 19, 2014, 02:29:35 PM
Great win for the Pirates!!!!  Two tough games ahead to win the tournament, but I would hope they get a bid even if they don't win the conference tournament.  George Fox is a scary team.  They chuck a lot of 3's but the guy with the face mask is pretty crafty with his inside game. Tough match up. 

Playball--You happy?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 19, 2014, 03:32:13 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 19, 2014, 02:29:35 PM
Great win for the Pirates!!!!  Two tough games ahead to win the tournament, but I would hope they get a bid even if they don't win the conference tournament.  George Fox is a scary team.  They chuck a lot of 3's but the guy with the face mask is pretty crafty with his inside game. Tough match up. 

Playball--You happy?

No, I'm never happy when Fox does well to be honest!  ;D. I hope WW wins it all and makes the rest of the league continue to trail.  The idea of trying to get to that mountain top should be every players goal and I hope this little string of conference championships gets to the Pirate's head and stumble next year.   

I ask about Walla Walla's college sports career because it's hard to take a Former Linfield football player who maybe played IMs seriously when it comes to basketball.  Two totally different atmospheres at the college between the two. 

Anyways, All Conference teams?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 19, 2014, 04:38:47 PM
Thank-you Willamette for allowing LINFIELD to equal their wins with last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 19, 2014, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: playball on February 19, 2014, 03:32:13 PM
I ask about Walla Walla's college sports career because I was looking for a chance to degrade his opinion.*

*fixed

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 19, 2014, 09:24:31 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 19, 2014, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: playball on February 19, 2014, 03:32:13 PM
I ask about Walla Walla's college sports career because I was looking for a chance to degrade his opinion.*

*fixed

Thanks for the fix but that wasn't quite what I was saying.  I wa trying to figure out what angle he saw things from.  A linfield hooper is very different than a footballers. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 19, 2014, 10:58:54 PM
Playball,

I was referring to Linfield's win over Willlamette. 

Don't look for WW to fall too far next year. They will miss their seniors but they have a solid core coming back. They will need to find a floor leader.  Love May be able to step up.  In the mean time it will be fun to watch the league tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on February 19, 2014, 11:03:47 PM
Thanks Wildcat11... I actually don't see a link between having an opinion on a program and actually having played for it... There are all sorts of experts out there who never played sports even at the high school level yet are respected for their opinion on their respective sport. I do officiate basketball and have gotten to the NAIA D3 JC level on the men's side so I have seen firsthand what talent it takes to win. I was a 4 year letter winner in football which not all that many guys can say.

I would agree that there has been a huge cultural difference between football and baseball versus basketball... The first two play for national titles every year.. The last for 26 years battled for a winning record... However prior to then the basketball program also was a year in year out threat to win the conference title... Hopefully the new coach can learn from the other two sports what it takes to be a successful program at Linfield...

Playball..I take it that you played at Linfield and had a successful individual career...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 20, 2014, 12:12:01 AM
WWW,

Playball did have a standout career playing at Linfield (Wiser), is very knowledgeable of the game, and of the NWC.  However, him playing the it's hard to take this person seriously when they didn't play card is false and strikes at the core of what has made these boards so great for so long.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on February 20, 2014, 12:31:08 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 19, 2014, 04:38:47 PM
Thank-you Willamette for allowing LINFIELD to equal their wins with last season.

No problem.  We helped Caltech do that in the first game of the season, so why stop now? :(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 20, 2014, 03:53:39 AM
First, I think we should all recognize Willamette's generosity. In this cruel and unfair world, the Bearcats are doing their part to make sure "everybody wins." Now how about you throw a football game Whitworth's way?

Also, for anybody wondering I did not have a standout basketball career. But I looked damn good in the student section wearing nothing but body paint and a smile
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 20, 2014, 10:26:57 AM
Anything can happen when you lace'em up!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 20, 2014, 11:39:54 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 20, 2014, 12:12:01 AM
WWW,

Playball did have a standout career playing at Linfield (Wiser), is very knowledgeable of the game, and of the NWC.  However, him playing the it's hard to take this person seriously when they didn't play card is false and strikes at the core of what has made these boards so great for so long.

I'm sorry it came off that way but I wasn't really trying to say that.  As I said in my previous post, Linfield football guys generally see basketball differently.  And to be honest I try to figure A) who someone is and their background when they are posting. B) what school they go for and C) why they seem to praise Ad when posting because not many linfield basketball guys would.

For example, I know who Buc is because he's been to a ton of games and from all the minor clues it's not hard to figure out.  I have no idea who rat is, but figured he didn't play but still gives good insight.  I know who Blackhawks is and don't enjoy what he says but he was a very good player.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 20, 2014, 11:41:36 AM
And yes I'm popping champagne right now celebrating that we are not the cellar dwellers this year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 20, 2014, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 20, 2014, 03:53:39 AM
wearing nothing but body paint and a smile

Yikes...glad I finished my breakfast first before reading that. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2014, 03:46:04 PM
Maybe the thought of Rat only wearing body paint and a smile is a bit too much to think about, but it's because of people like him that we can all agree upon one thing--The Whitworth Field House is the best place in the conference to watch a game. What's really cool is that the cheering, music, dancing, etc is getting even better as the years go by. The atmosphere helped me enjoy the huge comeback win Saturday as much as I enjoyed watching WW beat UPS in the league tournament championship game in 2009.  Hard to choose between celebrating a huge comeback win with your home crowd or watching the UPS crowd watch as their team can't finish off their perfect league season with a league tournament championship.  It's a toss up.   However, neither of those compare to watching your team finish a perfect season AND win the conference tournament and celebrating with the Whitworth crowd (2010).   ;D

BTW--as we are all confessing to our sporting past, I played football and basketball at WW--Neither were stand out careers.  In basketball, I probably sat more than Rat did at the games.  However, I was dressed better (if you don't mind those short shorts of the bygone era).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 20, 2014, 04:38:20 PM
QuoteA linfield hooper is very different than a footballers. 

I understand what your perspective is but in modern history did not OJ Gulley make the switch?
In my historic view I personally know cousins that were All NWC in both sports and one was integral on the NAIA championship baseball team.

(Love to tell this story) One year Ted Wilson suspended seven players (4 starters)and filled the roster with JVs, football players and a couple intermural guys and still won the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 20, 2014, 09:17:18 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 20, 2014, 04:38:20 PM
QuoteA linfield hooper is very different than a footballers. 

I understand what your perspective is but in modern history did not OJ Gulley make the switch?

Yes he did, after the football coach recruited him away from basketball and then lied about it.  And don't get me wrong, I also played two sports at Linfield.  I could see first hand how each sport was treated differently by the administration
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 21, 2014, 10:30:05 AM
Any predictions for this weekends games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2014, 01:18:49 PM
Linfield rides the high their one game winning streak (hey, it's been a long season) and turns it into a three game winning streak.

Fox unfortunately wins out as well.

Lewis and Clark goes 1-1 beating Whitman and losing a close one to WW.

Ups beats pacific to end the season.

Pacific loses both to end theirs.

Willamette does their thing and loses out.

Plu goes 1-1.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 21, 2014, 02:47:34 PM
With LC going 1-1 this weekend, fox winning out and UPS beating Pacific according to my man playball, that leaves #1 WW #2 WM #3GF and #4 UPS for the playoffs.
I think UPS wins out and claims the #3 spot over GF, even though it doesn't matter as going to eastern washington has been tough on UPS. The only win out there they got in the last few years was When Shelton and Gittens roamed the floor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 21, 2014, 04:25:36 PM
I don't think the wheels have come off at Whitman and WW won't let down. LC will lose both.  I won't bet against GF after last weekend so I bet they end up with the 3rd seed. I'm hoping Linfield and Willamette finish strong and give us some hope for next year.  Looks bad when we lose--or even struggle against Cal Tech.

Playball,  I don't understand this feud between basketball and the other sports at Linfield. I did think something must be going on when Bridgeland decided to stay at Whitman. You know his #1 priority is winning and he must have thought it was easier to win at WM than Linfield after he checked it out. Hopefully this new guys can get back to competing for #2 again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2014, 08:14:12 PM
Buc, I sent you a PM.

I just Batuik comes back healthy and we have a strong incoming class.  Any possibility WW forgets to pay the officials in the first playoff game and they drop one?  :D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2014, 08:20:05 PM
I'll bet against Fox.  They've been inconsistent all year, whereas Puget has been consistent every night.  Puget has beat the teams they should and have struggled against the Whits.  LC will drop two this weekend.  Pacific and PLU are the other winners tonight.

Saturday night winners are Whitman, Puget, Fox, and PLU

Conference finishes:  #1WW, #2WMN, #3UPS, #4Fox

And WMN is just fine.  These tough games are huge learning opportunities as they get all their guys back.  They've got one more exhibition game before they have to go undefeated for the rest of the year.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 7express on February 22, 2014, 12:58:31 AM
Good one between Whitworth and Lewis & Clark 64 all after regulation, headed to overtime.  L&C ended regulation on a 6-2 run after Whitworth lead 62-58 late.

L&C wins 73-70 on a couple late free throws.  Think McConnell for Whitworth missed the game-tying 3 at the buzzer.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 7express on February 22, 2014, 01:09:32 AM
I know it's nitpicking and I should be happy I'm able to watch a LC Whitworth game in Connecticut, but I really wish the LC broadcast would have a clock, or at the least zoom into the scoreboard during timeouts to show the time.  I'm looking at the students jumping around on the foul call, and would really like to know how much time is left in the contest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2014, 01:10:11 AM
you mean Whitworth...

McCargar takes a horrendous shot with 10 seconds left. Down by 1 and he hucks up a 3. Don't think he's made a single basket all game. L&C should put it away at the FT line here. Whitworth's defense was lackluster in the 1st half and that's gonna cost them. They didn't shoot real well but good enough to get a win. Through 25 minutes (2nd half plus OT) L&C only has 6 fouls...

Makes both. Whitworth down 3 with 7 seconds left. Do you foul? I would.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2014, 01:15:53 AM
Pioneers win 73-70 in OT

Whitworth just lost their chance at a pool C spot. Gotta win the NWC tourney now!

Time to go slam a couple beers or 6  :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2014, 03:37:13 AM
I'm afraid Rat is correct.  A pool C bid is not a sure thing if we don't win the tournament.  If Rat needs 6 beers after this loss, I need 12 after my son's high school game!!!!

Actually my son's high school is ranked 12th in the nation--in SAT scores.  I guess that's good, but Friday nights suck.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BruinFan on February 22, 2014, 04:21:10 PM
Well, GF tried to make-up for the collapse at WW last Saturday by hitting four 3's in the final minute of regulation last night at UPS... unable to complete the comeback in overtime. 

I think I have most of the tiebreaker situations figured out.

Whitman has #2 spot locked by having swept UPS.
UPS has #3 spot locked by having swept LC.

If LC beats WM, then LC gets #4 seed.
If LC loses, then GF gets #4 seed with a win tonight. (They split and GF wins on record against teams in descending order of finish)

I'm not sure what happens if LC loses, GF wins, and Pacific wins leaving them with 9 wins each. LC beat Pacific twice and GF split with Pacific so seems like #4 would go to the Pioneers. If tiebreaker does not use head-to-head when three teams tie, then GF gets #4 with the best record against teams in descending order.

Corrections appreciated.
It is fun to have some of the games still mean something the final night of the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2014, 03:44:01 PM
L&C @ Whitworth

UPS @ Whitman
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 24, 2014, 10:19:55 AM
Huge win for LC going into the playoffs with a little momentum against WW.

WW over LC
UPS over WM

Anything can happen when you lace'em up!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 24, 2014, 12:02:34 PM
Strange weekend to end the season.  I hope the Bucs can rebound and win the next two.  Even if they get LC at home, that will be a tough game.  I have no idea what will happen in Walla Walla.  WM seems to have lost their Mojo.  Any WM posters have an explanation?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 24, 2014, 02:08:41 PM
And a thank-you to PLU for doing their part in allowing LINFIELD to equal their 2012 wins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 24, 2014, 02:16:43 PM
BUC, as for the 3 games I had a chance to see WM play, their defensive pressure and 3pt shot is what they still rely on. From what I saw, teams are handling their pressure a lot better than in the past. Duckworth has not played as much as I thought. Is he injured? Or is Bridge doing what he did to Brandon 2 years ago and phase him out so his younger group (Duckworth and Quam) can get experience?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 24, 2014, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: Keandre on February 24, 2014, 10:19:55 AM
Anything can happen when you lace'em up!

The teams need to stay focused and give 110% and take 'em one game at a time, because obviously the final score is the only statistic that matters, no question about it.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2014, 03:51:40 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 24, 2014, 02:53:18 PM
The teams need to stay focused and give 110% and take 'em one game at a time, because obviously the final score is the only statistic that matters, no question about it.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F500x%2F32263905.jpg&hash=ccec2fa5a43415404d0d0c7cf8f2c261bf34a866)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 24, 2014, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 24, 2014, 02:53:18 PM
The teams need to stay focused and give 110% and take 'em one game at a time, because obviously the final score is the only statistic that matters, no question about it.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F02%2Fjohn-calipari-provides-for-one-of-the-best-gifs-ever-against-ole-miss.gif&hash=b6186dcd2f19fd89a0ac00484170be91dd75ea31)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2014, 02:43:44 AM
Nice article
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/feb/24/jurlina-gives-whitworth-spark-long-distance/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2014, 11:06:34 AM
Jurlina has settled down a lot. He seems to have cut down on the turnovers as of late. His understanding of game situations still needs work and it would be nice if he'd actually make some of the 3-pt shots he's taken lately. 4-17 in the last 5 games (2-15 if you take out one of those games). But overall he's improved a lot from game one to game 24.

With the lack of an inside presence on the offensive side of the ball, Whitworth is going to have to shoot much better from outside than they have for much of the season. They do have gaurds that can get to the rim, or in the case of Valle can actually play with their back to the basket. But when you can't rely on Farnsworth to give you 10-12 a night, you have to shoot better than 25% from 3 like they did last Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2014, 12:21:42 AM
Fitting that in the last nwc game of the season, Whitman plays their first game with their entire roster...just in time! Everybody's in the same boat. Gotta go undefeated from here on out. Let's do it.

As for All NWC honors, POTY is McConnell from WW, hands down. As dominant as a big can be, in college hoops, when the game is on the line, it's all about the guards. I'd want the ball in his hands.

Puget is scary. So consistent. Expect them to be in it the whole way. WW will handle LC. If I'm a gambling man, I'm taking WMN-2, and I'm doubling down on WW-5.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 27, 2014, 02:45:05 PM
Fun games tonight. I think we will see an upset in one of the games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2014, 05:35:28 PM
blackhawks nailed POTY. Congrats to McConnell on a deserved award. McCargar is the other Pirate first-teamer with Farnsworth and Jurlina getting honorable mention nods. Logie wins coach of the year which was inevitable. I still can't believe GF didn't make the playoffs....Best offense in the league and you finish outside of the top 4  ???

I think blackhawks is giving UPS too much credit. At home with a rowdy crowd, the team is apparently healthy, and the best d3 coach in the country. I think they'll end up winning by 8, with UPS keeping it close for 38-39 minutes. Then again, with as inconsistent as the Missionaries have been lately, I guess there is good reason to think it'll be a final possesion type game.

Whitworth will win comfortably. No way that they only get 6 FT's at home...to Lewis and Clark's 18 like last Friday. Guys in stripes wont let that happen in the Fieldhouse  ;D . LC plays tough perimeter defense and gets after it on the glass. Otherwise they aren't particularly scary. Last Friday Whitworth somehow mirrored LC's 3pt% (shocking when you shoot 25%) and put up almost 20 more shots than the Pio's. I don't think they'll miss as many shots around the rim as they did in Portland. I also don't think the Pio's will have triple the # of trips to the FT line. Pirates by 10.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 27, 2014, 05:50:29 PM
Rat, do you think there is some type of psychological advantage for LC since they won the last game? Not saying the game will play out the same as far as how many trips they go to the line or how many 3's they shoot and hit, but just the fact that they beat them has to make WW worry a little bit. Especially since everyone has been saying they have gotten better as the year goes on.

Also, UPS is in a pretty good position as well, they are consistent with what they are doing and they are doing well as guys get more familiar with their motion offense. As opposed to WM, who is not playing as consistent as they have been and even though the team is all back, chemistry has to play a factor doesn't it?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2014, 06:25:43 PM
Maybe. I don't know. I never treated games differently from a mental standpoint. It's about gameday execution and I don't know why beating somebody the week before would really matter. If LC wins it won't be because they were extra confident. It will be because they had a good gameplan that they executed on top of Whitworth playing poorly and of course some dumb luck. Especially with the new defensive rules, there is only so much you can do in basketball to stop your opponent from scoring. Many times it comes down to wether your opponent happens to be shooting well. Or a ref misses a few calls. Or a ball bounces off the rim in just the right spot for you to get an easy put back. I mean, it takes skill to capitalize on many of those events and the better you are the higher probablity of success. But there is still an element of chance in basketball. Probably more so than in other sports.

I can't fathom any team going in to a game against Whitworth thinking to themselves, "well, we're gonna lose by 20. Might as well not play very good tonight." And since most of the league doesn't beat Whitworth regularly, from your psychological standpoint they should all have that mindset and Whitworth probably shouldn't ever lose. Everybody should play worse against Whitworth because they've been beaten down physically and emotionally by the Pirates. I'd venture to guess the opposite is true.

Whitman hasn't been consistent all year. How many times has UPS beat them so far this season? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 28, 2014, 01:28:32 AM
They beat them once, tonight, when it counted. Very happy for Lunt. Everyone on this board picked against UPS, I need Karma points for calling UPS over WM. Anyone give Lunt his due for beating best d3 coach, in a must win 2 out of last 3 years?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2014, 01:33:58 AM
The best coach in the country couldn't get his team over the hump against UPS.

UPS was in the position I thought Whitman would be in. Up by a few points late in the game and extending it with FTs in the final seconds.  Loggers win a trip to Spokane where hopefully Whitworth can continue the tear they were on tonight. Another 20 point win would be nice  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 28, 2014, 01:45:49 AM
Great wins for the Bucs and UPS.  I guess last Friday's loss got the Pirates' heads straight.  UPS has to be tough to go into Walla Walla and get a win.  Saturday night will be a good one. 

At the beginning of the year, most of us thought WM had the best talent in the league.  They took UWSP to the limit.  Yet they lost a lot of games and never came up big when it counted.  I know they had some injuries, etc., but the were healthy tonight and playing at home. What's up in Walla Walla?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 28, 2014, 04:06:32 AM
Tough...tough...tough year to swallow in Walla Walla. Lose Eisenhardt for the first 15-20 games. He comes back and you have to restructure the offense--Experiment with 2 bigs 'cause Martin is having such a fantastic season. Scratch that. Duck goes down, Chircu goes down, Mournier goes Arctic cold for half the season. The line-up they started tonight had never started together this year. Season over.

UPS has been consistent all year. #1 on their team has turned into quite a player.

Everyone can go back to rooting for their own team now instead of rooting against...Side note: I really, really like McConell's game. Not a big stat guy, but just the best basketball player on the court.

BTW, just because you score a lot of points does not make you the best offensive team, George Fox. 3 of the top 7 all conference guys are from a school that doesn't make a 4 team playoff? Seriously? WW is the best offensive team in the conference. I could solely base it off shot selection, but I think they play out of some great sets that fit their personnel well.

I am looking forward to "celebrating" another sweet 16 elimination for Whitworth. Honestly gentlemen, whether you go out now or you go out in two weeks, doesn't it all feel the same?

I am also looking forward to at least 6 months of not having to read "anything can happen when you lace 'em up," followed by 15 exclamation points. One does the trick just fine.

Good day, gentlemen.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 28, 2014, 09:24:23 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 28, 2014, 04:06:32 AM.

I am looking forward to "celebrating" another sweet 16 elimination for Whitworth. Honestly gentlemen, whether you go out now or you go out in two weeks, doesn't it all feel the same?

I guess that depends on whether it is better to play and lose or not play at all.   Would your seniors rather turn in their uniforms knowing their careers are over or continue practicing and win or lose play another game?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 28, 2014, 10:18:21 AM
Blackhawks4, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOU LACE'EM UP@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Way to send them boys from WM off to Spring Sports UPS! WM was out coached. Great list of excuses as to why WM's season is over though blackhawks4. Just goes to show you and I quote ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOU LACE'EM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, end quote.

UPS will upset WW
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 28, 2014, 11:22:54 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2014, 04:27:24 AM
Honestly, Pinecone, you're embarrassing yourself. Let Rat and A Buc Forver fight your battles for you.

Remember this much too please.

I'm the one weeks ago said that the Whits would win out (except against each other obviously). The rest of the board scoffed.

I'm the one who is on record telling you that Whitman wins the conference this year.--By the way, Whitman beats WW, and Whitman claims the crown (with a better record against the top of the conference).

I'm the one who told you that Whitman goes dancing when they win the conference tourney.

I'm the one who told you months ago that WMN will meet UWSP again.

Just wait...

Whitman needs to be healthy and they need time playing together. Ps. Sophomore stud Tochi Oti showed unbelievable maturity this weekend deferring to WMNs bigs and Mournier, but I'd love to see him find his way on a team with so much talent.

Yeah, I was embarrassing myself. Enjoy watching Whitworth in The Dance...again. ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 28, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
Forgive, Pinecone for gloating a bit.  However, when you are from WW the old Mac Davis song isn't sung with it's a sense of irony, it's just the truth:

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
when you're perfect in every way.
I can't wait to look in the mirror

'cos I get better looking each day
to know me is to love me

I must be a hell of a man.
O Lord it's hard to be humble
but I'm doing the best that I can.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 28, 2014, 02:09:15 PM
With the way UPS has been playing as of late, does anyone think they have a good chance to knock off WW. After reading all the posts second half of the season, it seems that everyone has picked against them and they have shown that they can beat the "best offense in the league" GF, the "most talented team in the league" WM, and everyone said that LC would beat them and they beat LC twice. They are playing well and I think they can knock off WW if they keep holding teams to low shooting percentages.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 28, 2014, 05:44:24 PM
Keandre,

Also, don't forget that Lunt just out-coached the best coach in D3 basketball. ;D

I agree that UPS is playing well enough to knock WW off if the Bucs don't bring their A game. However, the Bucs have brought their A game to the conference championship game every year since 2007 so I wouldn't bet against them.  On the other hand:

ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOU LACE'EM UP@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 28, 2014, 06:32:05 PM
Buc, you are right! I almost forgot to add that and yes, "Anything can happen when you lace'em up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 01, 2014, 11:43:45 PM
Whitworth holds on after UPS players go brain dead for about 30 seconds.

71-68

Now we just have to wait and see where they get shipped off to for the first two rounds
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 02, 2014, 12:53:40 AM
Logie's NWC resume:

3 Years
3 Conference Championships
3 NWC Tournament Conferences
43-5 League Record

Yes, the table was set when he came on board, but remarkable record so far.  With few exceptions, his best players have been Hayford's guys.  Next year is on him completely.  I think he'll be up to the task.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 02, 2014, 05:03:37 PM
Congrats Rats on another NWC title.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on March 03, 2014, 10:56:34 AM
Rat, I did not get a chance to see the game, what happened in that 30 seconds UPS players went brain dead?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2014, 01:17:24 PM
They didn't foul. Let Whitworth run their only hope right off the clock before fouling. What's worse is that it was out of a timeout so Lunt either assumed they'd know what to do after a missed shot and didn't tell them or he did coach me up and they all decided not to. Wasn't like it would have won them the game necessarily but they had no chance at the end because of it. And I'm not even dinging them for the off-balance, del 3 pt shot they took when down by 1 on their last real possession.

Whitworth heads down to Texas to play a familiar opponent. They play Trinity (TX) in the first round, winner of that gets winner of Chapman v UT-Dallas.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 03, 2014, 01:26:18 PM
Good road to the Sweet Sixteen for the Pirates--Top team they face is a #20.  After that it gets a little ridiculous.  UWSP and UWWW (#1 and #2 in the nation) stand between them and the final four.  The "West" and "Midwest" brackets are tough!!!  Teams 1,2,3,4,5 and 8 are on the left side of the bracket.  Which ever team makes it to the final game has run the gauntlet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on March 03, 2014, 05:23:19 PM
Wait, best coach in D3, best player in league, most talented team in NWC did not get an at large berth? Why is that? Didn't they do enough to get in? ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 04, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
I don't care what anyone else thinks, but to me two things will never get old on this board:
1) The infighting at Linfield, and 2) The "Bridgeland is the greatest coach ever!!!1!" meme.

On a separate note, Whitworth handled Trinity earlier this season, but the Tigers were without their second leading scorer (Lambert). I expect it to be a different game--though the Pirates have been a little more consistent offensively as of late.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2014, 01:11:27 PM
I guess this blog won't have much action on it for awhile--except for any speculation about coaching jobs opening up? 

Will Bridgeland or Logie get hired somewhere else?
How patient is the administration at Willamette?
Any other changes expected?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on March 04, 2014, 03:40:17 PM
Awesome to see Dustin McConnell nominated for the Jostens Trophy.  He is a GREAT kid, player and all around human being.  Hope it happens for him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on March 04, 2014, 07:56:59 PM
Can we send Pincone some Karma points? Those two things will never get old with me either.
Does anyone have any idea how the leaguw will end up next year? If anyone right now, can pick the top 4 teams in league and be right this time next season, I will meet up with you and buy rounds of whatever you want (alcoholic or not) all night long!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2014, 07:59:29 PM
QuoteIf anyone right now, can pick the top 4 teams in league and be right this time next season, I will meet up with you and buy rounds of whatever you want (alcoholic or not) all night long!!!!!!!!!!

since you didn't specify it had to be in order....

Whitworth
Whitman
...I'll get back to you with the rest a little later
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 05, 2014, 12:40:13 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2014, 01:11:27 PM
I guess this blog won't have much action on it for awhile--except for any speculation about coaching jobs opening up? 

Will Bridgeland or Logie get hired somewhere else?
How patient is the administration at Willamette?
Any other changes expected?

Bridgeland isn't going anywhere.  After his stunt with Linfield this last offseason his budget at Whitman went bonkers.  If he does interview anywhere it is because he is greedy!  The other big winner in that linfield-bridgeland affair was the Whitman Women's basketball squad.  400k increase, good lord!!!!

Logie might go elsewhere but the winning has to addictive up in Spokane.  I personally don't see him going anywhere, anytime soon.  Yeah he has own, but arguably with Hayford's guys.  I think a bigger school may come knocking only after he can show he can recruit and win with his own guys.  I'm not trying to take anything away from Hayford's but I've heard a few places that his assistants ran most of the practices while he would recruit or fundraise.  That guy was an unreal fundraiser for WW.  Anyways, off topic.  Logie stays for a few more. 

Kip may be in trouble.  Unlike Logie, these were his own guys and they still struggled.  Great guy, but that alone won't keep you employed (See: Mark Sundquist, 2012-13 COY). However, his ties to the great Gordy may buy him some more time. 

Speaking of George Fox, is this the first time ever that 3 players from one team make it on first or second team all conference when their team fails to make playoffs?  Also, anyone know more about Sundquist's ouster?  I heard some things today that were kind of shocking but don't want to put anything out there until I see if anyone else has info. 

Good luck to WW in the tourney!

Will D3 ever get a tournament style like D1?  Financial decisions can't be his behind while the NCAA is raking in BUCKS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 05, 2014, 01:02:34 AM
Quote from: Keandre on March 04, 2014, 07:56:59 PM
Can we send Pincone some Karma points? Those two things will never get old with me either.
Does anyone have any idea how the leaguw will end up next year? If anyone right now, can pick the top 4 teams in league and be right this time next season, I will meet up with you and buy rounds of whatever you want (alcoholic or not) all night long!!!!!!!!!!

Whitworth, Whitman, L&C, and ugh, George Fox. 

Wiser's Whiskey and coke please and thank you.


As for my predictions that are way to early to actually be educated for next year....

1)WW squeaks out another championship
2)Whitman takes second in a tie breaker, beats WW at home loses on the road, etc.
3)L&C beats who they should and steal a couple they should've lost.
4)George Fox's guards carry them to 10-6 and fourth place finish
5) I still hate Fox and it pains me to put them in the playoffs
6)UPS splits with Whitman, loses one to Pacific and Linfield and finishes a game out of the playoffs.
7)Linfield picks up a quality big, but being a freshmen he struggles.  (Sophomore year for the kid will be better overall and will make playoffs)
8)PLU starts off ok (5-3) but then underwhelms to a 6-10 record
9) Pacific struggles as they always seem to have injury issues in Forest Grove (bad floor?)
10) Willamette beats Linfield in Salem for their only league win. 
11) Lunt still looks like Rumplestilskin when Greg Adrien blows a call in the second half of a close game
12) Lunt and Bridgeland fight each other in the first matchup spurring the second meetings home court fans to put on a faux wwe styled halftime show
13) Bridgeland shows that old man strength and wins the scuffle
14)2 NWC teams make the national tournament, will play each other in the second round (which stinks)


Thank you for taking note and I will revisit this at the end of next season!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 05, 2014, 11:58:04 AM
Playball,

I like the detail and I agree with a lot of what you said, but I don't see it playing out that way:

#1.  Whitworth--they go from a guard dominated team to a bruising inside game.  Love stops loving the cheeseburgers and changes his body composition to 5% fat and knocks over anyone getting in his way. Valle hits the weights, ignores the pleas from the football coach to be his tight end, and dominates the high post like he's Ryan Symes. Farnsworth and Wilks play 20 minutes a game each and bet each game which one will make the opposing center cry.  It won't be pretty, but they will go 15-1.

#2  UPS--Lunt, who learned from the best coach in D3, evolves after watching every game film from the last 10 seasons of WW basketball so that his team is ready earlier in the season and plays more consistently.

#3 Fox--The new coach steps up the discipline so that shot selection and defense improves but not enough to get into the top 2.

#4 LC or WM--Their inconsistency bumps them way down the pecking order.  However, they are talented enough that it will be one of these teams that bumps off WW for their only regular season loss. 

Other predictions:

The combined win total at PLU and Willamette does not surpass the combined win total of their football teams.

Linfield--the new coach becomes besties with the football coach and they have a combined football/basketball offseason weightlifting program.  Linfield wins 12 games and D O.C. and Playball meet, have a beer together, and hug. 

The west side teams are going to whine about traveling to play in brutally cold Eastern Washington.  Actually, I will keep that on my list of predictions for the next 20 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on March 06, 2014, 01:17:43 PM
Rat, Playball, and Buc, drinks on me for just attempting to pick at this point and time. If any of you win, I will add a happy hour special for some hot wings as well.

Wiser's Whiskey and Coke's sound like winners to me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on March 06, 2014, 06:39:16 PM
Will any of you be in Dallas tomorrow night?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2014, 06:57:22 PM
I never finished my top 4...

Whitworth
Whitman
UPS
L&C

I'll even go ahead and say the finish will be in that order. Same order as this year.

I don't think any of the bottom 4 teams are in a position to move up. They may rearrange among themselves but no playoffs for Linfield, Willamette, PLU or Pacific. GF loses Atkins and Bolte plus they can't play defense or stop themselves from fouling, therefore graduation hits them harder than LC and UPS.

Unfortunately I will not be in Dallas this weekend. And I'm as bummed about it as you are fox!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on March 07, 2014, 07:32:06 PM
Watching the 3A state tournament in Tacoma, there are some serious players here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 07, 2014, 07:46:20 PM
Brutal way to lose that game for Trinity.  Got open on the broken play back door cut to get the tie and it's fumbled away.  Ouch.  Clutch shooting down the stretch by Whitworth. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 07, 2014, 07:55:17 PM
Rainier Beach is once again the real deal...

Whitworth wins 75-73!

I don't care what blackhawks says about not winning championships, this never gets old. Another NCAA tourney, another win, another year this rat's team is still playing in March while you all wait for next year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 07, 2014, 07:59:26 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 07, 2014, 07:46:20 PM
Brutal way to lose that game for Trinity.  Got open on the broken play back door cut to get the tie and it's fumbled away.  Ouch.  Clutch shooting down the stretch by Whitworth.

Lambert did unspeakable things to Farnsworth. Good job by Trinity coach to keep forcing that matchup and attacking. But Whitworth was the better team and squeaked one out in TX.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 07, 2014, 10:06:50 PM
Way to hang on 'rats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on March 08, 2014, 11:28:43 AM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 07, 2014, 07:46:20 PM
Brutal way to lose that game for Trinity.  Got open on the broken play back door cut to get the tie and it's fumbled away.  Ouch.  Clutch shooting down the stretch by Whitworth.
Good defense forced this error.  I was there in person.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: dahlby on March 08, 2014, 12:05:53 PM
Pullin' for 509's Rats tonight. Should be a very close game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 08, 2014, 02:46:11 PM
+k for everyone
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 08, 2014, 08:58:16 PM
Whitworth up on UT-D 35-28 at the half

UT-D has some talented offensive players for sure, but I'm guessing Whitworth is the best team they've seen all season. If Whitworth can continue to limit the Comets in transition and rotate on defense like they did in the first half they will be in good shape and could even pull away in the 2nd half. I don't expect UT-D to let that happen though...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 08, 2014, 09:19:10 PM
Whitworth 57-44
8 min left
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 08, 2014, 10:05:25 PM
Unfortunately Jurlina ended up at the line at the end of a game again. Missed a 1 and 1 and UTS hits an off balance game winning 3.

Don't know how Whitworth wasn't in the double bonus after 25 minutes. UTD was shooting 2 with about 6 min left in the second half. But it never should have come to that with Whitworth blowing a huge lead. Congrats to UTD, they battled and gave themselves a chance at the end!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2014, 10:12:45 PM
Quote from: playball on March 05, 2014, 12:40:13 AM
Will D3 ever get a tournament style like D1?  Financial decisions can't be his behind while the NCAA is raking in BUCKS!

Correction: D1 football and D1 men's basketball are raking in bucks thanks to fat TV contracts. It's their money, and D3 is basically their welfare case. It's hard to gripe about what you're given when you're the one with your hand out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 09, 2014, 01:23:04 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2014, 10:12:45 PM
Quote from: playball on March 05, 2014, 12:40:13 AM
Will D3 ever get a tournament style like D1?  Financial decisions can't be his behind while the NCAA is raking in BUCKS!

Correction: D1 football and D1 men's basketball are raking in bucks thanks to fat TV contracts. It's their money, and D3 is basically their welfare case. It's hard to gripe about what you're given when you're the one with your hand out.

All are under the umbrella of the NCAA. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 09, 2014, 01:23:55 AM
Another great year for the Bucs. Huge year for WW athletics next year. The first year of Logie coaching just his guys. Also the first year of a new football coach. Basketball and football are over.  Time to go fishing. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 09, 2014, 01:31:10 AM
One of the best games statistically from Farnsworth, too bad WW gave up so many FT shots.  Rough way to end a season, but technically only one team is happy at the end of the year.  Great NWC season and I'm already looking forward to next year!  Man, I wish the college sports over here we're set up more like a European club system...I could still be playing!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2014, 01:39:33 AM
Quote from: playball on March 09, 2014, 01:23:04 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2014, 10:12:45 PM
Quote from: playball on March 05, 2014, 12:40:13 AM
Will D3 ever get a tournament style like D1?  Financial decisions can't be his behind while the NCAA is raking in BUCKS!

Correction: D1 football and D1 men's basketball are raking in bucks thanks to fat TV contracts. It's their money, and D3 is basically their welfare case. It's hard to gripe about what you're given when you're the one with your hand out.

All are under the umbrella of the NCAA.

But Division III only gets 3.18% of that budget, so unless you can change the NCAA constitution, you really do need to accept reality that there isn't a lot of money to fund Division III championships.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2014, 03:06:17 PM
I had all but called it a year on the ole' posting up board and had turned my attention to Mesa, where my beloved Cubbies are fine tuning their youngsters for a World Series run. But last night I got sidetracked back here after WW's OT session.

To my suprise, a month later, are we really still mocking Bridgeland being amongst the elite at our level in the country? You do remember that we're talking about a coach that inherited a 1-15 team that had been over .500 in the nwc 1 time in 20 years, right? Some things are worth repeating: A 1-15 team that had been over .500 one time in 20 years.  And now we talk about Walla Walla competing for the NWC title on a yearly basis.

If you'll recall, he also built UPS into a national contender. He's made it as far into the tourney as any of your underachieving Whitworth teams. Listen I'm not here to rub anything in, it's not my posting style. I tend to do my talking beforehand, and then praise afterwards. Butlast night, are you (expletive) kidding me?? Are you? You play against a press all conference and that's what you've got in the last 5 minutes of the game?

Whitworth fans: Excuse the analogy because this isn't meant to spark a tuition debate. You're the kid who's born into wealth, and then brags to his friends about being rich.

You should win the conference every year (facilities, tuition, reputation, academic standards). You should. Please....I'm begging you...strive for more. Be better. I'm so sick of watching you flounder in the early round of the tournaments and then praising your team for a job well done. It's not a job well done. You should be better.

And I'm sorry boys, but can we at least see Logie win with his own players? Because if you ask me, WW has gotten worse every year. What has Bridgeland ever inherited? Anybody? He built these programs on his own. And while we're on it, WW fans questioning Hayfords ability, huh? Nice. It pains me to say this, but I thought Hayford was a heck of a coach.

Nice to see a few others willing to make some predictions for next year. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Whitman.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 09, 2014, 05:50:52 PM
I'm just glad blackhawks is sticking around. Would have thought a Bridgeland disciple would have moved on a long time ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 09, 2014, 06:35:15 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2014, 03:06:17 PM
I had all but called it a year on the ole' posting up board and had turned my attention to Mesa, where my beloved Cubbies are fine tuning their youngsters for a World Series run.

Off topic but watch out for CJ Edwards.   A great young prospect who was drafted way late (47th rd) and has over achieved.

Bridgeland also has the highest budget in the league, he should also be doing better
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 11, 2014, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2014, 03:06:17 PM
I had all but called it a year on the ole' posting up board and had turned my attention to Mesa, where my beloved Cubbies are fine tuning their youngsters for a World Series run. But last night I got sidetracked back here after WW's OT session.

To my suprise, a month later, are we really still mocking Bridgeland being amongst the elite at our level in the country? You do remember that we're talking about a coach that inherited a 1-15 team that had been over .500 in the nwc 1 time in 20 years, right? Some things are worth repeating: A 1-15 team that had been over .500 one time in 20 years.  And now we talk about Walla Walla competing for the NWC title on a yearly basis.

If you'll recall, he also built UPS into a national contender. He's made it as far into the tourney as any of your underachieving Whitworth teams. Listen I'm not here to rub anything in, it's not my posting style. I tend to do my talking beforehand, and then praise afterwards. Butlast night, are you (expletive) kidding me?? Are you? You play against a press all conference and that's what you've got in the last 5 minutes of the game?

Whitworth fans: Excuse the analogy because this isn't meant to spark a tuition debate. You're the kid who's born into wealth, and then brags to his friends about being rich.

You should win the conference every year (facilities, tuition, reputation, academic standards). You should. Please....I'm begging you...strive for more. Be better. I'm so sick of watching you flounder in the early round of the tournaments and then praising your team for a job well done. It's not a job well done. You should be better.

And I'm sorry boys, but can we at least see Logie win with his own players? Because if you ask me, WW has gotten worse every year. What has Bridgeland ever inherited? Anybody? He built these programs on his own. And while we're on it, WW fans questioning Hayfords ability, huh? Nice. It pains me to say this, but I thought Hayford was a heck of a coach.

Nice to see a few others willing to make some predictions for next year. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Whitman.


I have to agree that WW never does as well as I think they should in the tournament.  For example, the 2011 team losing in the Elite 8--The Mariotta coach said WW was the best Divison III team he'd ever seen.  May be true, but they lost to Wooster the next night.  I think there are several reasons for the underachievement.  You can point to issues with the team. I didn't like how much Hayford relied on isolation plays in tight games. Puts too much pressure on one guy and takes the rest of your team out of the game. You can point to how the tournament is set up. In 2011 it was the equivalent of two #1 seeds playing in the Elite 8.  Also, the top #1 seed was playing Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games on the road. This year, the #12 ranked Pirates--equivalent to a #3 seed were playing on the road in the second round. However, I am proud of how well we have performed in our conference and in non-league regular season over the last decade.

Logie will be fine next year. Maybe someone else besides WW will win league, but my prediction is WW wins it all going away next year.  From what I've seen he and Hayford have different strengths and weaknesses, but they are both high level coaches.

As for teasing about Bridgeland--we all know he can coach, but we aren't going to let anyone say he's better than our guys--especially when we keep beating him. Not to mention that WM was the only team that kept us from two consecutive perfect seasons.

As for the fact that we should win our league every year because of "facilities, tuition, reputation, academic standards" I don't get it.  Facilities?  We play in a glorified airport hangar (at least according to playball). That place was built long before I went there. Not many upgrades other than the wood floor (thankfully those rubber Tartan floors are history) and the stands.  What makes the atmosphere are the students showing up and going crazy.  I can assure you that WW has spent less on basketball facilities than any other school in the conference. I guess that big plastic curtain improves the look a lot, but what did that cost?  $5000? Tuition may be less, but not that much.  Then you mention reputation vs academic standards--I don't get this. So you are saying that we have have lower standards but a better reputation?  Whitworth does more than anyone else with less talented kids.  You don't need a better selling point than that for a college.  Bring us your low achieving high school students and we'll make them academic superstars.  This must be why U.S. News and Report keeps calling us one of the best deals in higher education.  Thanks for noticing. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on March 11, 2014, 02:25:50 PM
In the "House that Ad Built" Linfield has one of the premier basketball venues in the NWC. I'm not sure the student support is there given the lackluster attendance at home football games (assuming that students would support both sports equally). Back in the day there was a very good South 40 student section with the origin in the old Riley gym. I'd expect with some on court success students would start to show up again although at what level remains to be seen. As well, if the new coach reached out to student organizations that would help.

I attended Linfield's last home game and the thing that stood out is a need for 2-3 bigs... Guys 6'8" at least who can defend the rim, rebound and start fast breaks, and crash the offensive glass.  Our backcourt just need another year of weights and experience as they seemed to be very solid D3 athletes.  I'd expect us to be much improved next season. Still need a next level player or two on the roster to make any conference noise.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 11, 2014, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on March 11, 2014, 02:25:50 PM
I attended Linfield's last home game and the thing that stood out is a need for 2-3 bigs... Guys 6'8" at least who can defend the rim, rebound and start fast breaks, and crash the offensive glass.  Our backcourt just need another year of weights and experience as they seemed to be very solid D3 athletes.  I'd expect us to be much improved next season. Still need a next level player or two on the roster to make any conference noise.


You want two or three 6' 8" guys that can "defend the rim, rebound and start fast breaks, and crash the offensive glass".  So does every other D III team in the nation.  DIII teams need to find players that were overlooked because they play bigger than there size, are late bloomers, play smarter if they are a step slower, were overshadowed by big time stars on their high school team, come from small programs where they were missed, maybe they want to play two sports or whatever.  You aren't going to find 6' 8" guys that you don't need to develop.  None of WW's bigs came out of high school ready to play. Nate Montgomery grew a lot between the end of high school and before he started playing in college.  To expect to have 2 or 3 guys 6'8" guys on a DIII team that can contribute is not realistic. 

As for your guards, you might have one that can compete with the upper level guys in the league if he develops, but I didn't see anyone that is going to dominate Jurlina or Love any time soon.  Linfield needs a whole different level of player to be competitive in the league.  Your backcourt needs more than weights and experience.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 11, 2014, 05:12:14 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2014, 03:06:17 PM
I had all but called it a year on the ole' posting up board and had turned my attention to Mesa, where my beloved Cubbies are fine tuning their youngsters for a World Series run.

With baseball season upon us, it's always a good time to post this oldie but a goodie:

A man was walking along the beach when he came upon an empty corked bottle. He picked it up and pulled out the cork, and suddenly in a cloud of mist a genie appeared. "Oh, thank you for freeing me, most gracious master," exclaimed the genie. "As a token of my great appreciation, I will grant you one wish."

The man pulled a folded-up world map from his back pocket and handed it to the genie. "My wish is for peace in the Middle East."

The genie handed the map back and scoffed, "That's impossible! Not even I with my genie powers can do that! I will therefore grant you another wish."

The man thought for a moment and said, "OK, I wish to see the Chicago Cubs win the World Series."

The genie replied, "Let me see that map again."

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on March 11, 2014, 07:52:23 PM
We had 5-6 guys that were 6'7" to 6'8" when I was at Linfield and each was a solid contributor... granted that was in NAIA days when athletes received partial scholarships.. Joel Holland, Konrad Ross, Beau Burggraff, Todd Baker, Jasone McGary and I'm sure I'm missing a guy or two... maybe all those guys are going NAIA and the Cascade Conference where they can still get scholarship dollars... that makes sense given how it seems the Cascade has the upper hand against the NWC lately (top to bottom).

At the D3 level teams in football and basketball need to have "next level" players.. guys who would be players at the D2 level at a minimum.. not bench players.. but starters by their upper class years...  Does Linfield have any players on its roster right now that would play at a good D2 school? Probably not...

Does our current roster have some guys who will be solid NWC players?  Yes.  All conference type guys? POY players? Maybe in a few years for conference honors but not POY caliber. 

However, with that said I will stick to my guns and say that Linfield men's basketball is the sleeping giant in the NWC.  At a minimum each year we play for conference titles in 2 of the 3 major men's sports. That kind of success at some point has to translate over to basketball as the pool of athletes is similar... kids that have good enough grades to get into the school, have the financials to pay for it, and the athletic ability to play at that level. 

Each school in the NWC is different enough that there are going to be guys that wouldn't consider Whitman or Whitworth because of where they are located.  There are going to be guys that love those two schools because of their location. Same can be said for each school in the conference... a good fit at Lewis and Clark might not be a good fit at Linfield...

It would be interesting to hear what Linfield's new coach has to say about the support he has received from the administration at Linfield.  Are they giving him what he needs to be successful? I'd hope so as lack of support was one reason cited for the recent slump..
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 12, 2014, 01:48:07 AM
A Buc, very nice rebuttal.

I too think Logie will be fine next year. Not just because it's hard to screw the WW job up, but I've seen him a handful of times now and I like him.  However, he's in a position where anything less than a conference title is a failure.

And how could one not think highly of WW? Whitworth demands respect. My goodness, they've won the nwc the last 10 yrs in a row?! But it's time to take the next step. Duke and NC don't celebrate ACC titles. It's time for a national presence.

Linfield has no excuse.

Playball, Bridgeland had the highest budget, he should be doing better. Care to elaborate? And why does Bridgeland have the highest budget?

Not bad Oxy Bob, not bad.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on March 12, 2014, 02:42:58 PM
My guess on why Whitman has the highest budget for hoops is that they are able to focus their energy and resources on making basketball a success instead of having to share with a football program.  The two sports that reconnect alumni with their school are football and men's hoops. It seems like Whitman made a decision to become more focused on athletic success which is a 180' turnaround from their prior mindset which existed for decades.  Whitman has a ton of money and I bet the alumni are more than willing to financially support a winning program. It is their only one of the 3 major men's sports. How long this mindset lasts at Whitman is anyone's guess... They should enjoy it while it lasts because it won't...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2014, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 12, 2014, 01:48:07 AMAnd how could one not think highly of WW? Whitworth demands respect. My goodness, they've won the nwc the last 10 yrs in a row?! But it's time to take the next step. Duke and NC don't celebrate ACC titles. It's time for a national presence.

Playball, Bridgeland had the highest budget, he should be doing better. Care to elaborate? And why does Bridgeland have the highest budget?

With the current d3 landscape as well as the recruiting limitations without the ability to offer scholarships, your ACC analogy falls flat on its face. The NWC is not the ACC. And Whitworth very much has a national presence, even without a title.

playball can correct me if I'm wrong but Whitman gives more university dollars to their men's basketball program than any other NWC school. I think you two are just using the term "budget" differently.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 12, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 12, 2014, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 12, 2014, 01:48:07 AMAnd how could one not think highly of WW? Whitworth demands respect. My goodness, they've won the nwc the last 10 yrs in a row?! But it's time to take the next step. Duke and NC don't celebrate ACC titles. It's time for a national presence.

Playball, Bridgeland had the highest budget, he should be doing better. Care to elaborate? And why does Bridgeland have the highest budget?

With the current d3 landscape as well as the recruiting limitations without the ability to offer scholarships, your ACC analogy falls flat on its face. The NWC is not the ACC. And Whitworth very much has a national presence, even without a title.

playball can correct me if I'm wrong but Whitman gives more university dollars to their men's basketball program than any other NWC school. I think you two are just using the term "budget" differently.

Nope, Rat, you are correct.  Whitman gives loads of money to Bridgeland as I sort of outlined when I said he interviewed at Linfield in order to be the bully and turn Whitman upside down for its lunch money.  He got more than lunch money.

Another reason for low student attendance at Linfield Basketball games (besides losing records) is how the academic school year is set up.  We have Jan Term which is not a requirement for all students so a lot of students don't comeback until February for school after Christmas break.  Fox has may term, so during their entire basketball season, students are on campus.  How does that effect other sports? How many fox kids are going to be missing out watching baseball, not many.

Konrad Ross and crew were on scholarship.  Its tough to compare scholarship teams and non scholarship teams.  Non scholarship guys play because they love the sport mainly.  Scholarship guys are pretty much employed to play.  Also, the Cascade Conference has a national pull since they are always well represented in the end of the year tournament.  Would I rather play in the CCC or NWC if I could go back and choose all over again?  I would still pick the NWC since the schools have a very different feel about them.

Look, a team needs size and Linfield was lacking it in the right positions.  Our bigs were slight and small.  Our guards looked slightly muscle bound which caused them to be a step slow.  Thats a bad combination for a basketball team.  Since someone brought up Nate Montgomery I will go a little further in depth.  Jon Weber who played HS with Nate, and Linfield with me, said that Nate was very overlooked and kind of a goof ball.  He developed after all possible recruiting hoopla could fruition from playing in HS.  Nate was a workaholic who had the drive that most people want, but dont work towards to attain.  Actually, it wasnt just him that had it from those Hayford WW teams.  David Riley would shoot and shoot and shoot, making the assistants wake up early and open the gym up or stay late to close it down.  Im sure Bo Gregg was the same kind of animal as were all the 15 Gebbers that went there and everyone else who played. 

Buc, is the glorified aircraft hangar used for any graduations or any other things of that nature?

Linfield as a whole needs to change its outlook on basketball.  When I missed 8 games my junior year with an inflamed disc in my back, I went to get treatment on one of our away game days.  Were any trainers around to help?  No.  I went out to the football field as it was one of their game days also, pretty sure it was against UPS.  I asked to get treatment from one of the ATC's and was told to "bug off, its game day."  Would this happen at any other school?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2014, 11:25:26 PM
Graduation is held at Spokane Arena. The Fieldhouse is used by football in the spring for morning conditioning days. Track will use it when it's snowing or too cold to run outside (throwers and jumpers will use it all season in any inclement weather). Baseball has cages that they'll use early season and in the off season. The only non-athletic activity that goes on regularly in the Fieldhouse is the luau.

Whitworth also has Jan term, but it never correlated with a dip in attendance. The only thing that ever caused smaller student sections was winter breaks or 3 day weekends where people left campus or bad teams coming to the Fieldhouse. Even then the student section was more impressive than most of the rest of the conference (UPS used to be impressive).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 12, 2014, 11:52:23 PM
Yes, if LINFIELD can pull off 12 wins next season then I will give playball a jar of Tiger Balm for his back.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 13, 2014, 12:13:20 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 12, 2014, 11:52:23 PM
Yes, if LINFIELD can pull off 12 wins next season then I will give playball a jar of Tiger Balm for his back.

I guess you don't understand anatomy or how the body works.

WW is the gold standard in which the conference needs to look to when it comes to basketball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 13, 2014, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: playball on March 12, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Nope, Rat, you are correct.  Whitman gives loads of money to Bridgeland as I sort of outlined when I said he interviewed at Linfield in order to be the bully and turn Whitman upside down for its lunch money.  He got more than lunch money.

So another institution tried to lure an employee away, and WMN decided to do what they could to retain that employee? Yea, this is completely the same as a lunchroom bully stealing other kids money...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on March 13, 2014, 05:58:19 PM
I think (with some inside info) that you might find it was the other way around.  Linfield said no to Bridgeland.

I agree with everything Playball said.  Bridgeland gets buckets of money to turn the program around.  It will be interesting to see how much support Rosenberg gets from the school.  I still think Doty was pushed out because they didn't want him there, so they just stopped supporting him and the program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 13, 2014, 11:13:31 PM
A couple things that I hope shed light and answer questions. Let's start with Whitman: As a WW fan, I would kill for their gym. I think it's a stinking cool place to play. Our airport hanger is used for the luau, Relay for Life, and a few other orientation events. I believe that the Fieldhouse might be on its way out, as WW looks to improve that facility in the next 10 years. Back to Whitman. They actually do have a load of cash for their men's basketball team. I remembered they got a $3 million gift a few years back and after a quick Google search, all I could find was that their men's tennis blog copy/pasted their official press release (I'm guessing in the Whitman athletics web site transition, they lost some old pressers): http://www.whitmantennis.net/2011/12/05/merry-christmas-whitman-athletics-a-must-read-story/

So yeah, Whitman has some money to spend. For Nate Montgomery, he was overlooked out of HS but WW didn't recruit him for hoops either. I remember Hayford saying something along the lines of "He didn't make the team his freshman year, but he was 6-9 so we kept him around" at his senior thing. I remember he was sort of a clumsy kid who could only dunk his first year on the team, but he turned into a beast.

I'm interested to see who both Bridgeland and Logie bring in next year. It would be nice if Logie could pull another big, but he does have to replace three starting guards. Love and CJ look ready to step up, but looking for that third stud. Wouldn't surprise me if Whitworth plays bigger next year, starting Love/CJ/Valley/Wilkes/Farnsworth. It'll be fun to see how some of the younger players on both teams develop.

As Rat said, WW has Jan Term too. Guess it helps when your team wins. UPS used to have some killer crowds--maybe just against WW--but they were fun crowds when we traveled over there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 14, 2014, 12:37:21 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 13, 2014, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: playball on March 12, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Nope, Rat, you are correct.  Whitman gives loads of money to Bridgeland as I sort of outlined when I said he interviewed at Linfield in order to be the bully and turn Whitman upside down for its lunch money.  He got more than lunch money.

So another institution tried to lure an employee away, and WMN decided to do what they could to retain that employee? Yea, this is completely the same as a lunchroom bully stealing other kids money...

Blackhawk, thanks for trying to nitpick.  I still stand by my analogy because Bridgeland pursued the job at Linfield without any intention of taking it.  Linfield opened it's search to applicants, Bridgeland applied.  My sources at both schools say the job was offered but was declined after Whitmab offered up a 400k budget increase (imagine how happy their women's program was!!).

As for Linfield not wanting Doty so they didn't support him, I've been saying this the whole time!  Support for the program suffered monetarily and in other ways as well.

Whitman, if I remember correctly, has a huge endowment fund and they are putting it towards their sports programs.  I agree tat there gym is a cool place to play in.  The crowds my last couple years were a funny (albeit nerdy) bunch.  Clever. 

I am very interested in what direction WW will go for it's possible new gym.  If they want the biggest and baddest in the conference but still have a flair for the old field house, they can always take design cues from the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 03:58:50 PM
The master plan is to attach a new athletics facility to the Fieldhouse, going out towards soccer and softball fields. Turning the area where Graves and part of the current parking lot into dorms.

Would love to see the new facility be basketball/volleyball arena and offices. Basically a smaller version of DeVos/Van Noord, only because I think Whitworth would have a lot of empty seats with seating like Nan Noord (5,000) which is almost as big as the McCarthey center that Gonzaga plays in. I like the bowl design, or at least something like UWSP's Quandt that has bleachers along each sideline/endline.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmb.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2FGMB-VanNoord.jpg&hash=8afbfefb8dd80693ccaa8b921d121ca09f309140)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.mwcradio.com%2Fmimesis%2F2013-01%2F13%2F32308_427427463989342_1694002710_n_jpg_475x310_q85.jpg&hash=80298c8517926f6048b83761b479e0c38f9c091f)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3hoops.com%2Fimages%2F2012%2Fuwsp-quandt-295x235.jpg%3Fmax_height%3D235%26amp%3Bmax_width%3D295&hash=db70babcbe81c88a8531e888e106eb9cccc9d60c)

The Fieldhouse could then be re-surfaced with fieldturf infield and an indoor track. I have no idea what the actual plan is, but a guy can dream...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 14, 2014, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 03:58:50 PM
The Fieldhouse could then be re-surfaced with fieldturf infield and an indoor track. I have no idea what the actual plan is, but a guy can dream...

Rat,

In being there on a number of trips that location does have a ton of potential with the available space.  That football press-box reminds me of a bunker you might find in a backwoods mountainside, but if the money is right, Whitworth could really make that entire complex a gem.

Jan Term isn't ideal but when Linfield hoops had a run in the very late 90s/early 2000's, Wilson gym was packed every game and they had to utilize the top set of bleachers on a regular basis.  Linfield had an intimidating student section that made the environment electric...even during J-Term. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 14, 2014, 05:47:43 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 03:58:50 PM
The master plan is to attach a new athletics facility to the Fieldhouse, going out towards soccer and softball fields. Turning the area where Graves and part of the current parking lot into dorms.

Would love to see the new facility be basketball/volleyball arena and offices. Basically a smaller version of DeVos/Van Noord, only because I think Whitworth would have a lot of empty seats with seating like Nan Noord (5,000) which is almost as big as the McCarthey center that Gonzaga plays in. I like the bowl design, or at least something like UWSP's Quandt that has bleachers along each sideline/endline.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmb.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2FGMB-VanNoord.jpg&hash=8afbfefb8dd80693ccaa8b921d121ca09f309140)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.mwcradio.com%2Fmimesis%2F2013-01%2F13%2F32308_427427463989342_1694002710_n_jpg_475x310_q85.jpg&hash=80298c8517926f6048b83761b479e0c38f9c091f)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3hoops.com%2Fimages%2F2012%2Fuwsp-quandt-295x235.jpg%3Fmax_height%3D235%26amp%3Bmax_width%3D295&hash=db70babcbe81c88a8531e888e106eb9cccc9d60c)

The Fieldhouse could then be re-surfaced with fieldturf infield and an indoor track. I have no idea what the actual plan is, but a guy can dream...

I haven't been to Hope or Calvin (we have plans to go to Grand Rapids next fall when UWSP fulfills the second half of the home&home with Hope) but I like what I've seen of Hope's gym more than Calvin's gym.. by a factor of 10.

Sure, Calvin's can hold more.... but it's generic. It could be the gym at any number of D-II or D-I schools... it just lacks any sort of character whatsoever and it doesn't even seem that intimate... those second level seats seem really far away.

Give me a UWSP, or an IWU or a Hope over a Calvin.  Even a Gustavus Adolphus (if it's full)

Even something like Rose Hulman (no seats behind the baskets, but you walk down from the walkway above, like at Hope).

Calvin reminds me a bit of UPS... but without the mid-century touches.


Plus, Calvin averaged just over 1k fans per game this year. There's nothing like playing in a gigantic empty barn... UW Oshkosh is like that too. Seats 5k but never more than 2300, and that's if Point is in town.

The one thing that UPS had, even over Calvin, in my opinion... was that the bleachers surrounding the court were relatively small, with a high wall up to the stadium-style seating.

That meant that back in the elite 8 in 03-04, when Point played Lawrence in front of 250, it didn't feel THAT strange... because the lower bowl was filled in pretty well.



(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwuhoops.com%2Fshirk9.jpg&hash=bde546aee6efd5847bba1a90ea733b3a1524a6b2)


(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rose-hulman.edu%2FIntramurals%2Fimages%2Fhulbertarena.jpg&hash=28dbc00f9a161c225fb0973bae1de7147481009d)

These pics are both pretty bad... but they give you the general idea.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 06:38:28 PM
I just used Hope and Calvin as examples for the "bowl" style seating. I think it gives the court/arena more of a "big time" feel. Any new basketball facility at Whitworth doesn't need more than 2,500 seats. But you are absolutely right about filling seats being more important than a mostly empty palace like Van Noord. Here is the Fieldhouse during a playoff game. Currently they have to bring in temporary bleachers on the end caps when they expect the main bleachers to reach capacity. 

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitworthpirates.com%2Fimages%2Finsideathleticsphotos%2FFans1.jpg%3Fmax_height%3D246%26amp%3Bmax_width%3D452&hash=a689492007fc194309c0bf66d2358aabf2e627f5)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 14, 2014, 07:37:16 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 06:38:28 PM
I just used Hope and Calvin as examples for the "bowl" style seating. I think it gives the court/arena more of a "big time" feel. Any new basketball facility at Whitworth doesn't need more than 2,500 seats. But you are absolutely right about filling seats being more important than a mostly empty palace like Van Noord. Here is the Fieldhouse during a playoff game. Currently they have to bring in temporary bleachers on the end caps when they expect the main bleachers to reach capacity. 

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitworthpirates.com%2Fimages%2Finsideathleticsphotos%2FFans1.jpg%3Fmax_height%3D246%26amp%3Bmax_width%3D452&hash=a689492007fc194309c0bf66d2358aabf2e627f5)

If Whitworth was able to make a gym of similar seating capacity and just utilize a smaller space better, that place would be rocking.  It gets loud and noisy already but imagine the same amount of fans at a WW game in a space scaled to Whitmans gym... It would be nuts!  I know many of you have never been here and sits fairly obscure but the best gym I've ever played in was in Grants Pass Oregon.  They had a bowl style but what was so unique about it was the floor sat 7 or 8 feet below where the bleachers were.  Both benches, scores table, and basketball court were sunk into the ground.  It was amazing
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 14, 2014, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: playball on March 14, 2014, 07:37:16 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 06:38:28 PM
I just used Hope and Calvin as examples for the "bowl" style seating. I think it gives the court/arena more of a "big time" feel. Any new basketball facility at Whitworth doesn't need more than 2,500 seats. But you are absolutely right about filling seats being more important than a mostly empty palace like Van Noord. Here is the Fieldhouse during a playoff game. Currently they have to bring in temporary bleachers on the end caps when they expect the main bleachers to reach capacity. 

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitworthpirates.com%2Fimages%2Finsideathleticsphotos%2FFans1.jpg%3Fmax_height%3D246%26amp%3Bmax_width%3D452&hash=a689492007fc194309c0bf66d2358aabf2e627f5)

If Whitworth was able to make a gym of similar seating capacity and just utilize a smaller space better, that place would be rocking.  It gets loud and noisy already but imagine the same amount of fans at a WW game in a space scaled to Whitmans gym... It would be nuts!  I know many of you have never been here and sits fairly obscure but the best gym I've ever played in was in Grants Pass Oregon.  They had a bowl style but what was so unique about it was the floor sat 7 or 8 feet below where the bleachers were.  Both benches, scores table, and basketball court were sunk into the ground.  It was amazing


I've never played on a floor like that... but Univ of Minnesota is like that too. Talk about putting the game on center stage...

How large was Grants Pass? It seems like you'd need that in a pretty large arena.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 09:58:31 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on March 14, 2014, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: playball on March 14, 2014, 07:37:16 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 06:38:28 PM
I just used Hope and Calvin as examples for the "bowl" style seating. I think it gives the court/arena more of a "big time" feel. Any new basketball facility at Whitworth doesn't need more than 2,500 seats. But you are absolutely right about filling seats being more important than a mostly empty palace like Van Noord. Here is the Fieldhouse during a playoff game. Currently they have to bring in temporary bleachers on the end caps when they expect the main bleachers to reach capacity. 

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitworthpirates.com%2Fimages%2Finsideathleticsphotos%2FFans1.jpg%3Fmax_height%3D246%26amp%3Bmax_width%3D452&hash=a689492007fc194309c0bf66d2358aabf2e627f5)

If Whitworth was able to make a gym of similar seating capacity and just utilize a smaller space better, that place would be rocking.  It gets loud and noisy already but imagine the same amount of fans at a WW game in a space scaled to Whitmans gym... It would be nuts!  I know many of you have never been here and sits fairly obscure but the best gym I've ever played in was in Grants Pass Oregon.  They had a bowl style but what was so unique about it was the floor sat 7 or 8 feet below where the bleachers were.  Both benches, scores table, and basketball court were sunk into the ground.  It was amazing


I've never played on a floor like that... but Univ of Minnesota is like that too. Talk about putting the game on center stage...

How large was Grants Pass? It seems like you'd need that in a pretty large arena.

Pretty sure he's talking about the high school gym, Grants Pass, OR.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.org%2Fu76ikwstz%2Fimage.jpg&hash=aee53fe786bb6a6e10ccc2c63217a9ba64bd4a5c)

Although the school has been remodeled and that may not be the exact same court playball played on.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 11:34:38 PM
If blackhawks thinks Whitworth should be upset because they didn't win the whole thing...imagine his condemnation of UWSP!  :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 15, 2014, 02:35:51 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 09:58:31 PM
Pretty sure he's talking about the high school gym, Grants Pass, OR.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.org%2Fu76ikwstz%2Fimage.jpg&hash=aee53fe786bb6a6e10ccc2c63217a9ba64bd4a5c)

Although the school has been remodeled and that may not be the exact same court playball played on.

Go Cavemen!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 15, 2014, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on March 15, 2014, 02:35:51 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 09:58:31 PM
Pretty sure he's talking about the high school gym, Grants Pass, OR.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.org%2Fu76ikwstz%2Fimage.jpg&hash=aee53fe786bb6a6e10ccc2c63217a9ba64bd4a5c)

Although the school has been remodeled and that may not be the exact same court playball played on.
Go Cavemen!

I don't know how many it could hold, but it was cool!  And that is exactly how it was back in 2006 even.  Great atmosphere!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 15, 2014, 04:47:58 PM
Quote from: playball on March 15, 2014, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on March 15, 2014, 02:35:51 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 14, 2014, 09:58:31 PM
Pretty sure he's talking about the high school gym, Grants Pass, OR.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.org%2Fu76ikwstz%2Fimage.jpg&hash=aee53fe786bb6a6e10ccc2c63217a9ba64bd4a5c)

Although the school has been remodeled and that may not be the exact same court playball played on.
Go Cavemen!

I don't know how many it could hold, but it was cool!  And that is exactly how it was back in 2006 even.  Great atmosphere!

I actually misread what he wrote.... I pictured it being more of a table than a pit (so it was 5 feet HIGHER than the bleachers, not the other way around).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 17, 2014, 08:42:48 PM
Congrats to Dustin

SPOKANE, Wash. – Dustin McConnell added one more post-season honor to his resume when he was named First Team All-West Region by D3hoops.com late Sunday night.

Click here for the entire D3hoops.com All-West Region Team.

McConnell, the 2014 Northwest Conference Player of the Year, becomes the 12th Pirate player in the last 13 years to make the D3hoops.com All-Region team. He helped lead the Pirates to a final record of 23-6 and an eighth straight trip to the NCAA Division III tournament.

McConnell led the Northwest Conference in assists per game (3.6) this season and ranked second in free throw percentage (83.9). He averaged 13.4 points and 3.7 rebounds per game for the Pirates throughout the year, 14.6 points per game in NWC contests. He was named NWC Player of the Week on Feb. 10 after he played all 80 minutes and averaged 21.0 points per game in a pair of wins at Puget Sound and Pacific Lutheran.

McConnell turned his game up a notch in the post-season.  Over the course of four playoff games (NWC and NCAA tournaments) he averaged 16.8 points, 6.0 assists and 3.5 rebounds.

McConnell finished his Pirate career with 1,039 points to rank 22nd on Whitworth's career scoring list.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 17, 2014, 08:45:33 PM
Congrats also to Sean Atkins and Daniel Zitani

Hard to put two players on the all-region team unless truly dominant, but Colt should have been there.


D3hoops.com 2014 men's All-West Region team
Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

Player of the Year: Tyler Tillema, G, UW-Stevens Point
Coach of the Year: Dan Kosmoski, St. Olaf
Rookie of the Year: Colby Taylor, F, Central

First team       
Pos.   Player   School   Yr.   Hometown
G   Tyler Tillema   UW-Stevens Point   Sr.   Randolph, Wis.
G   Dustin McConnell   Whitworth   Sr.   Clarkston, Wash.
G   Trevor Hass   UW-Stevens Point   Sr.   New London, Wis.
F   Matt Greenfield   Central   Sr.   Huxley, Iowa
C   Dan Kornbaum   Augsburg   Sr.   Little Falls, Minn.
Second team       
Pos.   Player   School   Yr.   Hometown
G   Tyler Gaffaney   Claremont-Mudd-Scripps   Sr.   Mill Valley, Calif.
G   KJ Evans   UW-Whitewater   Jr.   Beloit, Wis.
F   Sean Atkins   George Fox   Sr.   Longview, Wash.
F   John Androus   Luther   Sr.   Lindenhurst, Ill.
C   Chas Cross   UW-Platteville   Sr.   Winnebago, Ill.
Third team       
Pos.   Player   School   Yr.   Hometown
G   Ryan Milne   Colorado College   Sr.   Phoenix, Ariz.
G   Bryce Williams   Crown   So.   Mounds View, Minn.
F   Daniel Zitani   Pacific   Sr.   Oakland, Calif.
F   Galen Holzhueter   Martin Luther   Sr.   Mankato, Minn.
F   Taylor Hanson   Carleton   Sr.   St. Paul, Minn.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 18, 2014, 04:20:03 PM
One more point with regard to why West Coast teams don't do well in the tournament--besides sending them to lower ranked team's home court, etc.  Amherst and Williams--both from the New England Small College Athletic Conference--are playing in the final 4.   Here are the final Top 25 rankings of each bracket:

9--Williams
10
13
14
15
17
20


7-Amherst
4
22
11
21


12--Whitworth
NR--Chapman
1
3
16
18
19
25

Midwest Bracket
2
5
6
8
23
24


Williams was the highest ranked team in their bracket--at #9!!!!
Amherst has a total of 5 ranked teams. One was #4--not as bad as the Williams bracket.
Whitworth's and Chapman's bracket had a total of 7 ranked teams including #1 and #3.  That is like 2 #1 seeds in the Div I tournament--Good luck advancing there.
The midwest Bracket had 4 teams that would be #1 or #2 seeds in a properly seeded tournament.

I understand travel is a concern on the west coast, but then why do two New England Small College Athletic Conference teams get sent to two different brackets.  If you are going to try to split two good teams from one conference, then Steven's Point and White Water Should have been split.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 18, 2014, 06:13:41 PM
There's a long list of reasons why you can point to the West Coast teams not fairing well but I think the bottom line is the talent level of the West Coast conferences is lower than a lot of conferences that do well in the tournament, therefore it's a tougher jump to make.  D3 basketball on the West Coast is nothing like D3 basketball in New England.  Think about this - there are 5 D2 schools in Massachusetts but there are 45 D3 schools.  That's pretty amazing when you think about we've got a couple dozen total D3 schools on the West Coast split between the SCIAC & NWC with a few Inds - basically half of what Mass has.  There is so much more talent on the West Coast that goes to D2 schools, JC programs, etc. and never even consider going to D3 schools. I think that's the biggest hurdle to get over when it comes to consistently competing at a national level.

As for the brackets, it's been discussed many times before in different posts but it's simply a numbers/cost game for the NCAA.  You mentioned Amherst/Williams not being in the same bracket but keep in mind that Bowdoin also made the tournament from the NESCAC and they were in the same bracket as Amherst.  I'm not disagreeing at all the that Midwest/West side of things always has more higher ranked schools it seems smashed together early in the tournament but that's mostly geography at play.  With that being said, you have to look at those ranked teams and see which ones were technically upsets and which were not.  UWSP & UWWW might have been in the same bracket but they never faced each other so what difference did it make?  Whitworth may have been in a tough bracket but they lost to a team that was lower ranked than they were, so do they have anything to complain about?  The four teams left standing are the 4 teams that beat the teams that were ranked lower than they were - the only 'upset' was IWU beating St. Norbert and that was 5/6 match up on the #6's floor. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 18, 2014, 08:31:34 PM
Have to disagree madzillagd.

Yes, WW and UWSP lost to lower ranked teams, but  with WW it was 12 vs 16.  Steven's Point had a bad night.  Still, the roads to the final 4 are not comparable.  I live in a area that sends a lot of talent to the East Coast School--Blake Shultz and Brian Baskauskas are two examples.  Top players at their schools at the time (Amherst and Williams).  Not head and shoulders better than the best players in the NWC or SCIAC. I doubt that the NESCAC is so much better than the NWC that they deserve 3 teams and we get 1. 

Williams Non-League:
Southern Vt.
Salem St.   
St. Joseph's (VT)   
Wesleyan (Conn.)   
Curry   
MCLA   
RPI   
Springfield   
Washington College
Washington and Lee   
Hampden-Sydney   
Trinity (Conn.)      

The schedules are not comparable to Whitman--they played #'s 1 and 2.  Of course WM is going to have more losses.  Even worse was Bowdoin getting in.   They lost in the quarterfinals of their conference tournament AND the were 19-6.  The had no ranked teams in their non-conference schedule.  Do you really think they deserved a bid over Whitman?

I get tired of the NESCAC getting a bunch of teams in the tournament each year after playing soft non-league schedules and then getting cake walk paths to the final 4 and then being declared the strongest conference in the country, etc.  It is a self-fulfilling prophesy--with the set up the way it is, they should get 1 or 2 teams in the final 4 every year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2014, 08:52:05 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 18, 2014, 08:31:34 PM
Have to disagree madzillagd.

Yes, WW and UWSP lost to lower ranked teams, but  with WW it was 12 vs 16.  Steven's Point had a bad night.

UW-Stevens Point had three bad nights in this tourney, ABF, which should tell you something. The Pointers barely eked out a win over unheralded Marian from the lower-tier NACC in the first round at UWSP, 66-64. The Sabres actually had a chance to hit a buzzer-beater that would've brought about the biggest upset in D3 tourney history. The next night, the homestanding Pointers again struggled in beating a Central team that, like Marian, wasn't receiving any d3hoops.com Top 25 votes and which also came from a dark-horse conference (the IIAC). The Pointers won by five, 76-71.

UWSP clearly peaked in the WIAC tourney championship win over UWW, and went straight downhill from there. My guess is that the Pointers will take a similar slide in the final poll due to how poorly they played in all three tourney games, not just in the loss to Emory. Therefore, I'm with madzilla on this one: UWSP has nothing to complain about with regard to this season's bracket structure.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 19, 2014, 02:30:49 AM
Before the tournament started which 2 brackets would you want to be in?

Who would you pick between Whitman and Bowdoin?  Which one played the harder non-league schedule?

Do you really think the reffing had nothing to do with Whitworth's loss?

Whitworth has only lost 1 NCAA tournament game at home.   If they got more games in the later rounds my guess is that they would have made the final 4 a few times.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 19, 2014, 11:13:28 AM
$$ aside, the DI committee would have put Whitman in if they were running the d3 tourney. OOC SOS got Lousivile a 4 seed after all...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on March 19, 2014, 11:45:40 AM
Minor quibble with ABF's post: Trinity (Conn.) is in Williams' conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 19, 2014, 01:42:57 PM
If you are looking for somebody to defend the Bowdoin selection I'm not your guy.  I just brought them up because you were questioning why Amherst & Williams weren't in the same bracket and I just pointed out that Bowdoin was in the Amherst bracket so they had doubled-up the NESCAC teams, they just didn't triple them up. 

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 19, 2014, 02:30:49 AM
Who would you pick between Whitman and Bowdoin?  Which one played the harder non-league schedule?

This pretty much was the point that I was making before, just in a different way.  If you look at it, Bowdoin got in the tournament (I'm assuming) because they had a good winning % and they had a good SOS.  Whitman didn't get in because they didn't have as good of a winning % and they didn't have as good a SOS.  Why is that?  As you pointed out - they had a good non-league schedule so why was their SOS not reflective of that?  Obviously that comes back to league games and the fact that the NWC isn't one of the top conferences in the country like a WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, etc.   

If you take a look at the SOS of the NWC teams in the 3rd week Regional Rankings, only 3 of them had a SOS higher than .500 (Whiman .507, PS .516, WW .524).  (For SCIAC is was only 2 teams: Oxy .501, Pomona .508).  The NESCAC in comparison had all 11 teams above .500 (Amherst had the highest with .583, Bowdoin had the lowest in the league at .530).  I completely understand the self-fulfilling argument (I dislike the SEC in football for exactly that reason) so I get where there is dislike for the fact that the NESCAC teams build up a strong non-conference record on weaker conferences in the NE, East, MA, Atl regions and that builds up their SOS when they play each other.  I'm not going to argue against that result and there are reasons why they schedule the way they do that have been discussed.   

I'm not defending the Bowdoin selection against the entire field, but I can see why they would get in over Whitman.  The NWC / SCIAC are hurt by their location and that's a huge hurdle to try and overcome.  Even when you go out and play some UW teams, the rest of the NWC isn't doing that and/or aren't putting up great records so it's going to drag the top teams down because of their low SOS. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 19, 2014, 03:12:12 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 19, 2014, 02:30:49 AM
Before the tournament started which 2 brackets would you want to be in?

Whitworth didn't lose to the top teams in the bracket, they lost to T-D.  This is where we have a difference of opinion about how good a team Whitworth is every year.  I'm one to think that they tend to get ranked a little too high, I don't see them as a Top 10 team.  I think they should be in the 10-20 range every year at best and that's not a bad thing, I just think it's more accurate to the level of teams they go against every year in the West and their tournament history.  If you look at the SCIAC they don't get teams ranked up near the top 10 even when they have a great record and I think that's accurate. The SCIAC is not a top league and their lower ranking reflects that.  Whitworth however has built up a nice resume of consistency and they get ranked up high in the Top 25, but I don't think that's really a fair expectation of what they'll do in the tournament.   

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 19, 2014, 02:30:49 AM
Whitworth has only lost 1 NCAA tournament game at home.   If they got more games in the later rounds my guess is that they would have made the final 4 a few times.

Quite possibly true. We can't ignore the fact that they've had a pretty easy path a few times to move on too- twice they've had Byes followed by a SCIAC team.  In fact, they've only played a West team 3 times in the past 5 years and every time it's been SCIAC.  They haven't gone up against the big boys in the WIAC & MIAC even if they've been in their bracket. You look at their schedule the last 5 years and you see 3-0 vs the SCIAC, 1-2 vs ASC, 0-2 vs ODAC it's hard not to come away from that with a bit of a hierarchy in your mind about how those conferences stack up against each other.  To take that one step further, Williams on the other hand has gone 3-0 against the ODAC in the tournament over that same period. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 19, 2014, 09:26:55 PM
Madzillagd,

Good posts.  You make some good points and we can go back and forth arguing about where the NWC stands compared to some of the eastern conferences, but I'd rather not. With the rules of tournament selection being the  way they are, there is an advantage to playing in some DIII dense areas--especially when you can get plenty of OOC wins beating up on weaker conferences in your area.  It is smart to play teams that make you look good at tournament time.  That's why Hayford scheduled Cal Tech back in the day.

The NWC is probably a little behind some of the top conferences in the country, but not by much. In addition, I do think the league is down right now.  Linfield and Willamette used to be decent teams. They are flat out bad right now. UPS is a shadow of what it was 6 or 7 years ago. So maybe WW looks better than they are because of the league they are in. That said, I think WW is still a national level team and it's hard to argue that they don't deserve their rankings.   Except for 2009, the team has pretty much rolled through the NWC and made noise in the tournament.  Yes, they have had some easy roads.  However, when they got beat, it was usually to teams that went far or were on a roll.  For example, last year and 2007 when they lost to the eventual national champs.  The 2010 team easily deserved the top 5 record.   The thing is, beating a good team on the road is tough. Also, it's hard to have the best team roll through a tournament and win it all consistently just by chance alone.  If you are playing teams you have a 70% chance of beating you aren't going to go undefeated over 6 games very often. That's why Warren Buffet's billion dollar bet is pretty safe.

As for convincing me that the NWC gets a fair shake when it comes to playoffs and rankings, you are going to have a hard time ever convincing me of that.  I'm more of a football guy than basketball guy (my son's quote).  In 2007 WW won the NWC after their numbers had dropped to 7 teams and the conference did not get an automatic bid to the post-season.  WW was left out of the playoffs because of a first game loss to a D3 team and a loss to an NAIA team.  The NWC had won the national championships in 2004 and 1999 in football--two different teams won it--hard to argue that the conference's reputation was tainted then.  So I'll just end by stating my position that WW basketball has more than earned the rankings they have received over the last few years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 20, 2014, 11:21:40 AM
When it comes to arguing for more national respect, whether it be through higher rankings or a postseason at large bid, I don't think the NWC has a leg to stand on.  The NWC hasn't made the Final Four in how long?  Elite 8 twice in 10 years?  Unfortunately we can't justify our teams deserving a national ranking above #10.  In terms of postseason at-large bids, I think you've got to continue to pull the 2nd place teams in Wisconsin/Midwest/Eastern conferences, etc. that are consistently there at the end.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 20, 2014, 11:53:10 AM
I think the best thing that could ever happen to the NWC and the SCIAC is if a D3 conference could get established in Northern California. There are plenty of D2 NAIA schools that are potential targets, it's just a matter of whether they could field enough teams to switch to NCAA. If that ever happened it would make scheduling so much easier and of course would help during tournament time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2014, 06:09:00 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 20, 2014, 11:53:10 AM
I think the best thing that could ever happen to the NWC and the SCIAC is if a D3 conference could get established in Northern California. There are plenty of D2 NAIA schools that are potential targets, it's just a matter of whether they could field enough teams to switch to NCAA. If that ever happened it would make scheduling so much easier and of course would help during tournament time.

I've often thought that this league (http://www.calpacathletics.com/) would be an ideal candidate to switch over from NAIA D2 to NCAA D3. One of its members, Menlo College, is already a dual member of the two organizations.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: frodotwo on March 22, 2014, 12:08:24 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2014, 08:52:05 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 18, 2014, 08:31:34 PM
Have to disagree madzillagd.

Yes, WW and UWSP lost to lower ranked teams, but  with WW it was 12 vs 16.  Steven's Point had a bad night.

UW-Stevens Point had three bad nights in this tourney, ABF, which should tell you something. The Pointers barely eked out a win over unheralded Marian from the lower-tier NACC in the first round at UWSP, 66-64. The Sabres actually had a chance to hit a buzzer-beater that would've brought about the biggest upset in D3 tourney history. The next night, the homestanding Pointers again struggled in beating a Central team that, like Marian, wasn't receiving any d3hoops.com Top 25 votes and which also came from a dark-horse conference (the IIAC). The Pointers won by five, 76-71.

UWSP clearly peaked in the WIAC tourney championship win over UWW, and went straight downhill from there. My guess is that the Pointers will take a similar slide in the final poll due to how poorly they played in all three tourney games, not just in the loss to Emory. Therefore, I'm with madzilla on this one: UWSP has nothing to complain about with regard to this season's bracket structure.

I certainly hope that the pollsters do not ignore a 26-1 start and rank them only on their poor 2-1 finish.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 22, 2014, 11:24:36 AM
Quote from: frodotwo on March 22, 2014, 12:08:24 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2014, 08:52:05 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 18, 2014, 08:31:34 PM
Have to disagree madzillagd.

Yes, WW and UWSP lost to lower ranked teams, but  with WW it was 12 vs 16.  Steven's Point had a bad night.

UW-Stevens Point had three bad nights in this tourney, ABF, which should tell you something. The Pointers barely eked out a win over unheralded Marian from the lower-tier NACC in the first round at UWSP, 66-64. The Sabres actually had a chance to hit a buzzer-beater that would've brought about the biggest upset in D3 tourney history. The next night, the homestanding Pointers again struggled in beating a Central team that, like Marian, wasn't receiving any d3hoops.com Top 25 votes and which also came from a dark-horse conference (the IIAC). The Pointers won by five, 76-71.

UWSP clearly peaked in the WIAC tourney championship win over UWW, and went straight downhill from there. My guess is that the Pointers will take a similar slide in the final poll due to how poorly they played in all three tourney games, not just in the loss to Emory. Therefore, I'm with madzilla on this one: UWSP has nothing to complain about with regard to this season's bracket structure.

I certainly hope that the pollsters do not ignore a 26-1 start and rank them only on their poor 2-1 finish.

Or their 2-1 result vs either the National Champion or the runner up (though I project a UWW victory).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 22, 2014, 08:54:18 PM
UWSP certainly deserves a high rank despite losing early in the playoffs. Rankings and a tournaments are two ways to pick champions or rank teams.  When you use 5 and 7 game playoffs to decide champions, you probably pick the best teams with tournaments.  When you use a single elimination tournament, it really is a crap shoot.  Look at the probabilities involved with a team winning a 6 game tournament.  If a team has a 90% chance of winning (i.e. they beat the other team 9 out of 10 times), the chances that they will win a 6 game tournament is 53%.  A more realistic calculation for the top team before a single elimination 6 team tournament is something like this:

First game: 99% chance of winning
2nd game: 90% chance
3rd game: 80%
4th game: 70%
5th game: 60%
6th game: 60%

With those probabilities the chance that they win it all is about 18%.  These kind of calculations make UCLA's run of 8 straight even more amazing.  So UWSP had a great season and losing in the playoffs shouldn't take much away from what they did all year.  Congrats to them--they should be proud of the high rank that they will deservedly end up with. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2014, 09:30:27 PM
Please reread my earlier post, ABF. It's not simply the fact that UWSP lost that will cause the Pointers to drop a relatively long distance. After all, 61 of the 62 teams in the tournament lost their last game -- and yet somebody still has to be #2 (and #3, and #4, and #5 ...) in the final poll. As I said before, the fact that UWSP played so poorly, and came so close to being upset on its own floor, against two relative nobodies in the opening weekend of the tourney will probably hurt the Pointers as much, if not more so, than their loss to Emory (which was, incidentally, a team that wasn't receiving any votes at all in the most recent d3hoops.com poll -- just like Marian and Central).

Getting back to your original statement, it's not true that UWSP had one bad night in this tournament. It had three bad nights. And I think that those three ugly performances will cost the Pointers in the final poll -- although frodotwo and JG are correct in mentioning that the impressive record that the Pointers assembled prior to their March stumble (including the 2-1 record against the national champions) will cushion whatever fall the Pointers take in the final poll.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bleedpurple on March 22, 2014, 09:40:35 PM
I'm guessing UW-SP ends up 5th.

And I'm also guessing that they couldn't care less about anything other than first.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on March 23, 2014, 11:08:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2014, 06:09:00 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 20, 2014, 11:53:10 AM
I think the best thing that could ever happen to the NWC and the SCIAC is if a D3 conference could get established in Northern California. There are plenty of D2 NAIA schools that are potential targets, it's just a matter of whether they could field enough teams to switch to NCAA. If that ever happened it would make scheduling so much easier and of course would help during tournament time.

I've often thought that this league (http://www.calpacathletics.com/) would be an ideal candidate to switch over from NAIA D2 to NCAA D3. One of its members, Menlo College, is already a dual member of the two organizations.
Don't think it will happen Greg. Menlo used to be a partial D-III and returned to full NAIA. William Jessup is looking to go NCAA D-II in the future (Following former league members Dominican, Cal State East Bay and Notre Dame de Namur). UC Merced also has eyes on a future move to NCAA D-II. The rest of the schools don't have enough sports.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2014, 11:24:36 PM
No, I've never really thought it would happen, either. California becomes more fertile ground for D2 with every passing year; D2s are everywhere in that state now. But the Calpac is really the only viable source of northern Cal schools that would fit madzilla's musings about a D3 geographic bridge between the NWC and the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on March 25, 2014, 11:51:26 AM
Tillema plays for the West Region WIAC, but is on the East squad.  Ironic much?

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2014/d3-all-star-game-box-score
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 26, 2014, 10:34:18 PM
As I said in another room on d3boards.com, I really dislike the fact that the D3 All-Star game has de-emphasized regionality in terms of constructing the two rosters. Even though the game still features an East team and a West team, the team names are now nothing more than a tease.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on March 26, 2014, 11:11:50 PM
As somebody that was there this weekend, I really didn't understand what the point was of the game. It may have made sense had they scheduled it to finish right before the championship game but that was not the case. The all star game started at 3 and was essentially a running clock so it was over well over an hour before the finals teams warmed up. We didn't even bother to go over there and I just watched some of the first half online.  There couldn't have been more than a couple dozen people in attendance for most of it. Don't know why you couldn't schedule it 90 mins before the final and you'd likely get a lot more people showing up for the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2014, 12:00:02 PM
You can't schedule it closer because it can't run anywhere close to warmup time. With the game on television, it must tip off at the appointed time and teams must get full warmups and appropriate introduction.

Now we could debate whether we all needed to sit around for three minutes for commercials and pregame coach interviews, but that's another story.

Well more than a couple dozen people there at all times.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on April 17, 2014, 07:22:57 PM
I'm sure everyone is off the board until next fall, but when you come back know that the Bucs are getting ready  ;D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K036Exm8Cpc#t=193
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on June 01, 2014, 04:09:00 PM
Spoke with a member of the Linfield coaching staff and it sounds like 13-14 players are committed for next year... Half of whom are 6'5" or taller... Sounds like the new coach is really working hard on the recruiting piece which is great to hear... Give us a couple years and we will be one of the top teams in the NWC on a year in year out basis...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on June 09, 2014, 02:39:02 PM
Willamette's 2014 recruiting class:

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/archive/2014/06/06_MBK_Recruiting_Class_2014-15.php (http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/news/archive/2014/06/06_MBK_Recruiting_Class_2014-15.php)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on July 16, 2014, 02:36:42 PM
Either the league is down and these are the kind of kids in the conference these days or Willamette is really in trouble.  There is only one kid on this list that has the kind of credentials players had to have to make it in this league 3 to 5 years ago. Most of these kids are honorable mention, second tier players on average teams.  It used to be most kids that ended up playing significant roles in the league were choosing between NWC teams and walk on spots at Div I schools.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on July 21, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
Whitworth Basketball 2014 Recruiting Class:

Matt Staudacher   6'1 Junior PG                Simon Fraser University (Lake Washington HS Class of 2012 – Kirkland, WA)
Simon Fraser University Highlights
http://vimeo.com/90826190

Forrest Baker   6'7 RS-Sophomore F         Lewis & Clark State (Mead HS Class of 2012 – Spokane, WA)
HS Highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr-kL7yEh4

Austin Damon   6'5 RS-Sophomore F       Northwest Nazarene (Lewis & Clark HS Class of 2012 – Spokane, WA)
HS Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6q-dmA_wtY

Alberto De Miguel 6'7 Freshman F          MacDuffie Prep School (Madrid, Spain)
Prep School Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUnUHiwNtwQ

Real Madrid Club Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu0j7b70WRE

Josh Thayer 5'9 Freshman PG                     Stanwood High School  (Seattle, WA)
Article:
http://mltnews.com/boys-basketball-stanwood-downs-terrace-66-52-hawks-must-win-game-tuesday/
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on July 31, 2014, 01:44:56 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on July 21, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
Whitworth Basketball 2014 Recruiting Class:

Matt Staudacher   6'1 Junior PG                Simon Fraser University (Lake Washington HS Class of 2012 – Kirkland, WA)
Simon Fraser University Highlights
http://vimeo.com/90826190

Forrest Baker   6'7 RS-Sophomore F         Lewis & Clark State (Mead HS Class of 2012 – Spokane, WA)
HS Highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr-kL7yEh4

Austin Damon   6'5 RS-Sophomore F       Northwest Nazarene (Lewis & Clark HS Class of 2012 – Spokane, WA)
HS Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6q-dmA_wtY

Alberto De Miguel 6'7 Freshman F          MacDuffie Prep School (Madrid, Spain)
Prep School Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUnUHiwNtwQ

Real Madrid Club Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu0j7b70WRE

Josh Thayer 5'9 Freshman PG                     Stanwood High School  (Seattle, WA)
Article:
http://mltnews.com/boys-basketball-stanwood-downs-terrace-66-52-hawks-must-win-game-tuesday/

A Buc Forever: Here's the official release. http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2014-15/releases/20140730eufji7

Looks like the guys you said plus Derek Isaak, a RS Soph. transfer from NNU where he averaged 8.2 ppg and made nearly 42% from behind the arc. He reminds me a lot of someone Hayford would have recruited: small school, state POY...plus he scored 44 points in the state championship. The kid can shoot. The last guy from ACH who came to Whitworth to play basketball worked out pretty well (Nate Dunham, who was the 1996 NCIC Player of the Year and a First Team NAIA Division II All-American).

I couldn't find a highlight package on him, but here is the state championship when he scored 44 points (he's wearing #22 for the white team). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dME5C4aaw3I

Obviously I hope Whitworth continues the dominance, but this will be an interesting year for Logie since it will be his first without Hayford recruits. I don't think he has the talent that Hayford amassed, but we will see.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on August 20, 2014, 09:57:08 AM
Logie's classes have been a little deeper but lighter on the top end (talent-wise). Logie got what he needed out of this class (Isaak/Staudacher), with a couple projects. De Miguel will be the most interesting one.
The level of play overseas isn't quite the same. I think the kid from Spain can be very good at the d3 level, but it's going to take a year or two for him to develop. He'll be more polished coming in than Felix was though. More like Jurlina.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 28, 2014, 05:46:10 PM
Let's get this party rolling!!!

What's new for your teams?

No big news for the OR teams that I can get. 

George Fox lost a lot, but still have a lot coming back. 
Linfield hasn't posted anything except hiring a former LC player as an assistant coach.  Is Batuik coming back this year?  That would sure help. 
Willamette has a big coming in and 6 others, but will still face a big challenge moving out of the lower tier of the league. But I like the looks of several of the new kids.
I heard LC lost 3 seniors and 4 others, but pulled in 5 new including 3 juniors (JC's?).  Looks like a rebuilding year to me.
Heard PacU had a good recruiting year and may be ready for a playoff spot.  Is Brakebush back this year?

Still feels like the power teams are up North(east)!  What do you guys have on the WA schools? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on October 29, 2014, 11:01:46 PM
Linfield has its men's 2014-2015 roster up on the website as of today. Andrew Batiuk's name is on the roster.
Not many players left from the Doty era, many newcomers on the roster.   The schedule for the upcoming
season is also posted.  This schedule is more favorable than last years, there are more non-conference home games!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on October 31, 2014, 12:53:19 AM
And the roster for PacU is out and Brakebush is on it.  Nice to have both of these great players back!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 01, 2014, 06:55:32 PM
Word from the inside at Whitworth is that this is Logie's deepest team since he's been here. Probably not the top-end talent we're used to seeing in the Fieldhouse, but they go 11 deep of players who would start anywhere else in the conference. I've heard they feel like their "B" squad could compete for a league title. They brought in a bunch of JuCo's to replace McConnell/McCargar and add depth up front. They also got a Spanish kid (freshman) who has been impressing. I'm willing to bet that this team will win the NWC again, though they won't be dominant. I think their depth will prevail, as they can run teams off the court--and when they go to the bench, they won't have any major drop off in talent.

Returners: Farnsworth (Sr.), Valle (Jr.), Jurlina (So.), Love (So.)
New Impact Players: Derek Isaak (So.), Alberto de Miguel (Fr.), Matt Staudacher (Jr.)
Crazy prediction: Drew Sears (6-10 So.) has a breakout year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on November 03, 2014, 12:07:09 PM
We will get a small taste tonight as they take on Div I Montana Grizzlies in Missoula at 6:00pm our time.  Live stats and video provided by UofM as well.

Go Bucs !
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 03, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
Pirates might not need the transfers with a healthy Brown on the court. Got the start tonight and is playing well

Pirates led early, now down 28-22 with 7 min to go in the first half. They may very well lose this game by 20 when it's all said and done but so far I'm impressed with how they've played against a UM team that finished 2nd in the Big Sky last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 03, 2014, 11:51:53 PM
Whitworth got within 9 with 3 min left in the game before Montana pulled away to win 94-79.

Valle led the Pirates with 21

I haven't checked a box score but I'm assuming Montana was very liberal with their substitutions. Still, to hang with them all game is all this Pirate fan really wanted to see. Especially after shooting 38% in the first half.

Whitworth should again be a heavy favorite to win the conference. They just have too many dudes who can play. Maybe Whitman's transfers have enough talent for the Missionaries to keep pace with the Pirates in the title race...UPS brings back enough to make a run at it...everyone else? Not so much.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 07, 2014, 02:53:43 AM
NWC Coaches Poll is out (http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2014-15/releases/nwcpoll-mbsk2015). No real surprises IMO.

1. Whitworth (6)
2. Whitman (3)
3. UPS
4. LC
5. Pacific
6. George Fox
7. PLU
8. Linfield
9. Willamette

I think it's clear the Whits and UPS are the top 3 that everyone is chasing. I think Fox, Pacific and LC will be in a big battle for that fourth playoff spot. Wouldn't surprise me to see Pacific sneak up there. And it's still painfully obvious that Linfield and Willamette are in "rebuilding" mode, though I think Linfield could surprise a few people. With Batiuk back, plus a couple young and talented guards, wouldn't surprise me if they can catch fire and win a few more than last year.

I'm actually a little afraid of Whitman this year. They usually bring their A game for Whitworth, but then have those slip ups (loss @ Pacific last year) along the way. If they can figure those out, they could pose a real threat to Whitworth's dominance.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 08, 2014, 02:40:27 PM
Happy to be back with you fine gentlemen for another season of NWC hoops.  Preseason rankings look exactly as they should, except I'd put GF higher.

Pinecone, I didn't think Bridgeland's "I can take the absolute worst team in the league to the best team" would take this long either, but you should be afraid of Whitman in 2014-15.  I thought last year was going to be the year of the dethroning, but injuries left WMN w/o their entire roster all year, and come playoffs WW was just plain better.

In my opinion, no team in the NWC deserves a national ranking higher than #20.  We haven't proven to be a contender for a title.  A real title, that is.  Every year Whitworth goes to the tournament...we beat up on the SCIAC...and then WW continues to prove to us that they don't care about being great.  Instead, WW is comfortable being good, and continues to be afraid to take a risk to go to the next level--whether it be recruiting or style of play...Same old recycled good team.

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 14, 2014, 08:19:00 PMI'll take the sustained success regardless of no national title. I consistently have a very good team to cheer for

I know there's a million reasons why it won't work, (scheduling, travel, money, etc.), but in years to come, I would love to see WW and WMN schedule a late season out of conference game against the Wisconsin schools during their bye week.

All NWC predictions--which are tough this year with seemingly everyone graduating--so I only have 4:  Oti, Mournier, Martin (WMN),  Farnsworth (WW)

With Thanksgiving around the corner, I've decided that this year I'm most thankful that the curly haired guard from WW has graduated and used all of his eligibility.

Ready for next weekend!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 08, 2014, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 08, 2014, 02:40:27 PMIn my opinion, no team in the NWC deserves a national ranking higher than #20.  We haven't proven to be a contender for a title.  A real title, that is.  Every year Whitworth goes to the tournament...we beat up on the SCIAC...and then WW continues to prove to us that they don't care about being great.  Instead, WW is comfortable being good, and continues to be afraid to take a risk to go to the next level--whether it be recruiting or style of play...Same old recycled good team.

You make it sound as though nobody else has any say in how and when Whitworth's season ends. The Pirates aren't playing against themselves in the sectionals, you know. I hate to break it to you, but there's no slouches left once you get past the first weekend of the D3 tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 13, 2014, 12:57:00 AM
Blackhawks4,

I personally don't get your complaints about the WW program. I think WW is doing everything they can to be as good as they can. They have recruited kids out of Australia and Spain, they are getting top kids from the Northwest.  They regularly get guys that are offered money at NAIA and Div II schools or offered preferred walk-on spots at Div I schools.  Logie's credentials as a coach are impeccable.  I'm not sure what else they could do to get much better.  They are competing with the top tier programs in the nation.  Like Sager said, no gimmes past the first weekend and the Bucs have gone all the way to the Elite Eight. I think their record qualifies as something beyond "good."

This could be a great year for the Pirates.  Love has lost weight, Jurlina has had a year to get used to the system, and Valle is coming into his own.  If this team comes together, it could be one of the best ever.  The WW v WMN games are going to be barn burners.  UPS looked decent against EWU.  Should be a fun year if any team in Oregon decides to play basketball this year. ;D 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on November 13, 2014, 12:02:21 PM
I'm not sure I completely agree with B4's point but I do agree to some extent in terms of how high any NWC (and you can extend that to SCIAC too) gets ranked.  I've had issues the past couple of years at times with the WW ranking because I thought they were ranked much too high based on the competition they were playing.  I've voiced it on the Top 25 board and had some good conversations with Dave and others if I recall.

Obviously there's a geographical issue at play but the reality is that with the competition the NWC and SCIAC play during the year, I don't think any of their teams should be cracking the Top 10 unless they play some non-conference games against top competition and win.  It just doesn't make sense to me to have WW get ranked top 10 many years and lose earlier in the tournament than expected. There is a glass-ceiling of sorts for the SCIAC teams, you just don't see them ranked up that high even if they do win and I think that makes sense.

Here's recent history in terms of WW's ranking going into the tournament and the final season ranking.
Year       WK 13/14      Final
13-14:        12               17
12-13:         6                11
11-12:         7                10
10-11:         1                 5
09-10:         4                 7
08-09:         21              24
07-08:        NR               NR
06-07:        11                9

You have to go back 8 years for the last time WW went into the tournament and actually improved their ranking.  Most years it's been a step back of at least 3 spots and the last couple they've dropped 5 spots.  I'm not sure how voters justify a #4 team winning one single tournament game, not making the Elite 8 and still getting a #7 ranking in the final poll.  For me it would make much more sense in an average year that they don't get any higher than 10 or 12.  Then if/when they lose in the tournament in the 2nd or 3rd round the ranking makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 13, 2014, 01:59:34 PM
All the pre-and post tournament rankings prove is how hard it is to make it through the D3 tournament when you are a West Coast team--or from anywhere for that matter. For example the number one ranked team that ended up number five lost to a team that in a true seeded tournament would've been given a number one seed and those two teams would not of met until the final four. They also had to play that team on their home court. Speaking of home-court advantage, whitworth has only lost one tournament game on their home court it was to the eventual national champion. In general Northwest conference teams have been under ranked and in my opinion, when it comes to basketball play off selection I think more Northwest teams should have been included in the past.  When it comes to football playoff selection, Northwest teams have really gotten the short end of the stick--that's not even arguable.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on November 13, 2014, 04:20:47 PM
I think the limited success of the NWC teams in the tournament is preventing them from getting more teams in.  If your top team is getting a bye the first round, then only winning one game then there isn't going to be a big push to get more teams in.  At some point you have to win on the road.  If you look at the teams that have played in the Championship game and in the Final Four, there is a good number of them that got there winning on the road. 

Regardless, my initial point was about the rankings and I think what you brought up actually adds to what I'm saying.  You know WW is going to have a tough time in the tournament and they will likely get knocked out relatively early on based on the system we have, so why rank them so high?  That's the part I don't get.  It seems like the voters have it right every preseason, then throughout the year they lose track of that thought.  If you look at the last five years WW's preseason rankings have been 12, 14, 12, 16, 16.  That makes perfect sense to me, I just don't think that if/when they play an average schedule and win why move them up throughout the year?  Keep them in that range and when they drop out of the tournament in Round 2 or 3 they were that #12-16 team in the country that they thought they'd be at the beginning of the year.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2014, 05:05:40 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on November 13, 2014, 04:20:47 PM
I think the limited success of the NWC teams in the tournament is preventing them from getting more teams in.

This is not really a factor at all. There haven't been a lot of borderline NCAA Tournament teams in the NWC that might have been pushed over the top by perception.

One thing that is different out in this part of Division III compared to New England is that these teams are almost always on the road after the first weekend, and usually sent to a highly seeded team, sometimes all the way across the country. It's a fact of life on the D-III islands.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 13, 2014, 05:32:31 PM
madzillagd,

I think WW has played as tough a schedule as they have been able to get.  One year they played three Wisconsin teams--beat two of them and one of them was ranked #2 in the nation when they beat them. What more do you want?  Your complaints are completely off base at this point. Pat Coleman's point is valid--being in a D3 island makes for a tough rode in the tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on November 13, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Completely understand the geography of it all.  I went to a SCIAC school, nephew goes to a SCIAC school now, niece at a NWC school now, and immediate family all graduated from NWC school. Seems like that should be taken into consideration in the rankings knowing that a team with a tougher travel/schedule is less likely to finish in the top 10 at the end of the year, at no fault of their own.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 13, 2014, 09:16:08 PM
There's really no argument to rank the NWC teams higher or put more than one NWC team in the tournament. We flat out are not as good as the other conferences, hence my urging for WW to be better and not rest their laurels on conf. championships. What do I mean? Allow me to give 3 examples:

1. LC--in the Scott Davis, Orior, Meitus, etc. days with Gaylord--heck of a team and coach
2. UPS's run when Bridgeland took them to Elite 8's based on pure recruiting being an early adapter to a style of play that changed basketball forever
3. Hayford landing Taylor from Montana--the best player the conference has seen. Hayford even had some teams of depew, Olson, Avery, williams.

In all 3 cases, something extraordinary happened--and it showed on a national level. Not quite a title, but close. The NWC has had nothing close to that lately. WMN is close.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on November 14, 2014, 02:32:22 AM
Black...

Well said!  I especially like the part about resting on laurels, except...that sounds like they are doing it on purpose.  It takes a tremendous effort to get any talented kids into a NWC school.  And a lotta luck!  You can do it all right and come up with average and do little right and come up with aces. 

Gaillard had the benefit of a massive recruiting effort that few other coaches performed, at the time.  Bridgeland learned that at his time at LC and probably outworked Gaillard, no small feat.  Hayford raised it to a new level and had some locational and financial advantages.  They were able to pool the talent.  It seemed like a lot of coaches and programs were happy to make the league playoff, and contending for the title was not in their sights. 

Then the rest of the league started catching up.  Now we have a pretty talented group of coaches!  Logie and Bridgeland are proven, Lunt is getting there, Cleary is moving to the top, I like what Hamilton is doing at Fox (too early to tell for sure), and I think Rosenberg will establish himself at Linfield. 

The options for the players are now wider (all schools are good academically, now good coaches, programs, etc), the above average to great kids are more dispersed, and average players that have been enrolled too many times to fill in the numbers, will no longer be needed.  And maybe, just maybe, the NWC teams are looking more attractive to the recruits. 

I now see coaches/programs who no longer appear satisfied to finish in the top half of the league or just to make the league playoff.  They are coming after the title!  This is good news for the league's reputation!



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 15, 2014, 11:19:40 PM
15 min left in the 2nd half, Whitworth beating D'Youville...69-20
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 16, 2014, 02:51:08 AM
Why was Whitworth playing D'Youville?  They were 1-24 last year.  You only get 25 games in DIII--waste of a game!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 16, 2014, 10:44:21 PM
How come Grant didn't play in Fox's first 2 games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 16, 2014, 11:36:26 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 16, 2014, 02:51:08 AM
Why was Whitworth playing D'Youville?  They were 1-24 last year.  You only get 25 games in DIII--waste of a game!!!

Whitman is playing D'Youville as well FWIW, and beat them 129-88. Looks like Whitman played everyone a lot, but kept the full-court press on (forced 30 turnovers--though D'Youville is pretty bad, so who knows how long that took?). I think part of the draw was they were willing to come to us and it's not always easy to schedule D3 opponents that will come to you--especially on our tiny NWC island. Rutgers-Newark and St. Thomas are coming this weekend to face the Whits. I'm excited to see how the Whits do vs. St. Thomas! I don't know as much about R-N, but from the looks of it they aren't bad. Should give us a good insight where we are with Whitman, and where the NWC is with other teams in the west.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on November 18, 2014, 02:17:59 PM
I amvery excited to watch UPS this year. Barber will be a stud and Holden will have a breakout year if he can stay healthy. Quick question, what is the WM's coach record in the playoffs against UPS since he has been there? Not many people have good things to say about UPS coach like they do WM coach so I just wanted to know playoff records against one another.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 21, 2014, 12:54:31 AM
Now that was fun to watch!

Basketball is a game of runs, and you hope that over 40 minutes, that statistically, everything evens out. Well, it didn't. St. Thomas shoots 14-22 from the 3 pt line. The worst part is that I can't say they didn't deserve to. The second St.Thomas shooters had the smallest opening, they were  lights out. They are what a national champion looks like.

Whitman gave a strong showing. 66% from the floor and 47% from three. 30 1st half points in the paint.

The Whits need to play MORE of these games. No more cupcake preseason games! They need to go to Wisconsin and go to the east coast in the preseason. We don't see this competition enough.  Our conference play doesn't prepare the Whits for the national level. You could sense that every shot Whitman made was a huge shot, and every shot St. Thomas made suggested "we've been here a million times."

I would imagine you can just knock off 20 points for each team and you'll have Saturday's score.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 21, 2014, 01:36:55 AM
Wish I could have seen the Whitman/St. Thomas game. I was tracking online, and it looked like a good one. Watched the Whitworth one online though and have a few thoughts. 1) Whitworth isn't what it used to be. I mean, that's obvious. This is a top 25 team, but not a top 20 team. There's no go-to player, their post play is average, and they are wholly dependent on defense. With that said, they are a very good defensive team, but I can't imagine this team being in very many shootouts. 2) Rutgers-Newark is pretty solid. Lots of length, they aren't lights out shooters, but they seem to make the shots when they needed. And they were a very good defensive team as well. Definitely a defensive battle tonight. Kudos to RN for coming into Whitworth and picking off a quality win. Didn't look like the crowd was very large, but a win is a win. 3) Those refs <
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 21, 2014, 02:11:54 AM
Pinecone, I saw the ww ot session. In 5 mins of watching, here's my two cents: Agree ww is solid across the board, as usual. Also agree though that I didn't see a go-to player.

Love your play-by-play crew. Thought they were awesome. Didn't think that was a foul under the bucket on your big fellow--that call hurt. But also didn't think it was a loose ball foul at the end.
I did appreciate Logies jacket spike. I found that enjoyable. However I wish he would have gone for distance instead.  I also enjoyed seeing a referee give a technical foul AFTER the game was over...I think that speaks to the crew you had.

Interested to see WMN-Rutgers.  A WMN win sets a huge conference precedence.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 21, 2014, 02:32:57 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 21, 2014, 02:11:54 AM
Pinecone, I saw the ww ot session. In 5 mins of watching, here's my two cents: Agree ww is solid across the board, as usual. Also agree though that I didn't see a go-to player.

Love your play-by-play crew. Thought they were awesome. Didn't think that was a foul under the bucket on your big fellow--that call hurt. But also didn't think it was a loose ball foul at the end.
I did appreciate Logies jacket spike. I found that enjoyable. However I wish he would have gone for distance instead.  I also enjoyed seeing a referee give a technical foul AFTER the game was over...I think that speaks to the crew you had.

Interested to see WMN-Rutgers.  A WMN win sets a huge conference precedence.

It was a great jacket spike and post-game T ;D

If Whitman hits their 3's (and I think they will), they should win. Whitworth couldn't buy a bucket tonight both inside (RN was too big and long) and outside (just flat-out missed the shots).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2014, 01:43:44 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 21, 2014, 12:54:31 AMThe Whits need to play MORE of these games. No more cupcake preseason games! They need to go to Wisconsin and go to the east coast in the preseason.

Regular season, bh4, not preseason. These games count.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on November 21, 2014, 10:13:16 PM
http://portal.stretchinternet.com/georgefox/portal.htm?eventId=180331&streamType=video

Cal Tech currently has an 8 point lead at George Fox with 13:20 to play
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 22, 2014, 08:09:11 PM
While the rest of the conference is busy being treated like a punching bag (is the league really this down??!), I' like to personally thank Lewis & Clark.

WMN is now up 35 points on Rutgers-Newark.  These guys are terrible.  This is who you lost to WW?  At home?? WOW.  Tonight against St. Thomas might be a blood bath.  Somebody bring Logie a few extra suit jackets, I think he's going to need them.

When WMN shares the ball and lets the game come to them, they are good--top 25.  When they try to force an early one-on-one, they're not as good.  We all knew it was just a matter of time, but I think this may be the year that the power in the conference has finally shifted...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 22, 2014, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 22, 2014, 08:09:11 PM
WMN is now up 35 points on Rutgers-Newark.  These guys are terrible.  This is who you lost to WW?  At home?? WOW.  Tonight against St. Thomas might be a blood bath.  Somebody bring Logie a few extra suit jackets, I think he's going to need them.

When WMN shares the ball and lets the game come to them, they are good--top 25.  When they try to force an early one-on-one, they're not as good.  We all knew it was just a matter of time, but I think this may be the year that the power in the conference has finally shifted...

Whitman and Whitworth play two completely different styles: one is run and gun, the other is grind it out. What might work against one team might not work against another. This is not new information. But, like I've been saying all pre-season, I think this could be the year Whitman catches Whitworth. It's early, Whitman has a bunch of good seniors, while Whitworth is relying mostly on sophomores and a junior playing out of position to carry the scoring load. Hopefully the Pirates right the ship tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 23, 2014, 01:02:59 PM
No matter what style of play, what is new information is the net result. I'm worried WW isn't even a playoff team. WMN, L&C, UPS, GF?? If the Pirates are trying to "right the ship," they might need a new captain, first mate, and crew...Ps. Whitman has 2 seniors on their team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 24, 2014, 12:49:49 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 23, 2014, 01:02:59 PM
No matter what style of play, what is new information is the net result. I'm worried WW isn't even a playoff team. WMN, L&C, UPS, GF?? If the Pirates are trying to "right the ship," they might need a new captain, first mate, and crew...Ps. Whitman has 2 seniors on their team.

Three, but who's counting? ;D Plus Mounier is probably Whitman's best player and Lippi is arguably their best shooter. Whitworth's seniors are Farnsworth and Wilks. Farnsworth is either feast (@Montana) or famine (this last week), and Wilks is a decent back up post player I guess, but the offense doesn't go through them like it does with Mounier at Whitman. Whitworth is relying on Jurlina (So.), Brown (So.), Love (So.), and Staudacher (transfer) for a huge bulk of their scoring. Whitworth will have some growing pains along the way as Staudacher, Brown and Love try to find their niche in the offense, and while Jurlina becomes more disciplined on offense.

Whitworth was cold again against St. Thomas, which is starting to be a trend. I definitely am not worried that this is a playoff team, but on a national scale this team is certainly down as this weekend proved. Yeah we got our clocks cleaned by St. Thomas, but if a bad no call goes our way, we are probably 2-1 just like you guys down in W2. And at least we didn't give up 88 points to the worst shooting D3 team I've ever seen  ;D

I think the league goes Whit, Whit, UPS, LC. Until we start losing to the Willamettes and Linfields I'm not too worried.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 28, 2014, 10:36:10 PM
Would someone please explain to me how Rutgers-Newark, Chapman, and Clairemont Mudd Scripps are receiving more top 25 votes than Whitman? Anybody???

Let's start with the SCIAC...our top teams mop the floor with theirs every year.  Has a NWC team lost to a SCIAC team in the NCAA tourney in the last 15 years? Wait 'til you see what WMN does to Chapman tomorrow.

And WMN just humiliated (I think that's a fair word) Rutgers-Newark by 27 points. They were NOT good.

Seriously D3 poll, get it together.

Back on the NWC front, you're really stretchin' with that argument, Pinecone. I also forgot to mention #1 on UPS on my all NWC team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 30, 2014, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 28, 2014, 10:36:10 PM
Wait 'til you see what WMN does to Chapman tomorrow.

I'm still waiting...

Chapman 72
Whitman 67

Whitman may very well win the NWC this year as Whitworth hasn't seen anyone step up as a go to scorer (they have a few who are perfectly capable IMO). But suggesting that Whitworth won't finish in the top 4 of the NWC is the dumbest thing anyone has said on these forums, and the fact that blackhawks has graced us with his presence for over a season now, the bar has been set high.

Whitman plays a style that exposes teams with lesser talent and over the past several years has given their players and fans a lot of confidence going in to the NWC season. They look at the box scores of games Whitworth has with common opponents and come to the same conclusion that blackhawks is right now. We beat team A by more points than Whitworth did, therefore we are better than Whitworth. Then the season plays out and Whitworth is again on top of the conference and in the national tourney. Maybe it will be different this year...wouldn't hold my breath.

Whitworth has 4 games that they should win heading in to NWC play, giving them plenty of time to get their new roles figured out. I think Logie will have them ready to go by January.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on December 01, 2014, 03:26:29 PM
I had a chance to see UPS play and they are pretty good. They have several options on offense and their defense is good as well, except for the Ogelthorpe game where they shot the ball very well. They deserve to be in the winning the NWC conversation as well. They have beat WM 2 out of the last 3 years to go to the championship game, and one of those games were at WM where everyone on this board was saying WM will beat them. They can play fast, or they can play slow. They challenged WW hard in the championship game last year and if WW is not as good as last year and UPS having almost everyone back, how are they not in the conversation to win the NWC. WM will have to adjust the way they play if they are going to win it all, you cannot press all game against every team, gotta make adjustments and get stops in the half court to win championships.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2014, 07:05:06 PM
To all you Hayford and Whitworth haters out there, I'll give you two more reasons to be glad Hayford went to Eastern Washington.  Two of the starters that played key roles in the EWU win over Indiana were slated to play at Whitworth.  When Hayford went to EWU he convinced both of them to follow him to EWU and walk on.  One of those guys is picked to be the Big Sky player of the year.  Wouldn't that have been fun?

WW is looking vulnerable this year.  However, I have faith that Logie will pull it together and get them playing at the level they need to be at to win the NWC.  Until they lose the crown--Long Live the King!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2014, 07:21:59 PM
With regard to Chapman beating WMN, don't think of Chapman as a regular SCIAC team.  They just joined the league and have a strong athletic department. They also have a much larger student body (7,500) than the rest of the SCIAC and NWC schools.  I've seen them play both football and basketball over the years. They will be a force to be reckoned with over the years. My guess is they have a desire to move up a division or two at some point.  No inside knowledge. Just speculating.

On another note, where is Playball?  Ever since he left Linfield, they have stunk it up.  He needs to stay on the board so he can thump his chest when they make it back to being competitive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 01, 2014, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2014, 07:05:06 PM
To all you Hayford and Whitworth haters out there, I'll give you two more reasons to be glad Hayford went to Eastern Washington.  Two of the starters that played key roles in the EWU win over Indiana were slated to play at Whitworth.  When Hayford went to EWU he convinced both of them to follow him to EWU and walk on.  One of those guys is picked to be the Big Sky player of the year.  Wouldn't that have been fun?

WW is looking vulnerable this year.  However, I have faith that Logie will pull it together and get them playing at the level they need to be at to win the NWC.  Until they lose the crown--Long Live the King!!!

There is no doubt in my mind that had Hayford stayed, Whitworth would have won a national championship at some point. Parker Kelly, Tyler Harvey and Collin Chiverton would have looked great in a different red and black. Belated congrats, BTW, on David getting promoted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2014, 07:21:59 PM
With regard to Chapman beating WMN, don't think of Chapman as a regular SCIAC team.  They just joined the league and have a strong athletic department. They also have a much larger student body (7,500) than the rest of the SCIAC and NWC schools.

Since when does the size of the student population have any effect upon how good a basketball team a school has? Teams aren't drawn from out of the student body at large. They're recruited.

Also, you're counting grad students in that total. Chapman's undergrad population is only about 5,000-something.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2014, 07:21:59 PMI've seen them play both football and basketball over the years. They will be a force to be reckoned with over the years. My guess is they have a desire to move up a division or two at some point.  No inside knowledge. Just speculating.

I disagree. Chapman put years and years of effort into getting into the SCIAC. It's a conference that enjoys a high level of academic luster, and that's good for Chapman's brand.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on December 01, 2014, 09:16:21 PMThere is no doubt in my mind that had Hayford stayed, Whitworth would have won a national championship at some point.

Plenty of doubt in my mind. Whitworth was certainly a high-quality program under Coach Hayford, but you don't just snap your fingers and win a Walnut & Bronze. It's not that easy. Just ask Steve Moore at Wooster or Glenn Robinson at F&M.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 02, 2014, 03:31:05 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
I disagree. Chapman put years and years of effort into getting into the SCIAC. It's a conference that enjoys a high level of academic luster, and that's good for Chapman's brand.

I agree with this. I don't think Chapman moves up any further. I think they will be plenty happy at D3 with the combo of athletics and academics.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
Plenty of doubt in my mind. Whitworth was certainly a high-quality program under Coach Hayford, but you don't just snap your fingers and win a Walnut & Bronze. It's not that easy. Just ask Steve Moore at Wooster or Glenn Robinson at F&M.

Cool, you can have your doubts. But those guys who were coming to Whitworth just beat Indiana at Indiana. It's not a snap of your fingers--especially out in the PNW island, but the talent he was bringing in would have been right up there with anyone else in the country.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on December 02, 2014, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
Since when does the size of the student population have any effect upon how good a basketball team a school has? Teams aren't drawn from out of the student body at large. They're recruited.

Since always?  Teams are not drawn out of the student body but resources that support those teams are.  IF schools choose to channel those resources towards athletics then they are at an advantage over schools that may be 1/5 their size (with exceptions of small schools with massive endowments).  But, we all know there are dozens if not hundreds of schools that don't go that route and channel their resources in other areas.  But I think the results speak for themselves.  7 out of the last 10 Championships have been won by schools of 5,000 or more (UW-WW, UW-SP, UST, Wash U).  18 out of the last 25 have been won by schools with 3000+ in enrollment. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 02, 2014, 12:35:18 PM
Madzillagd,

Thanks for doing the research to prove my point. 

Pinecone,

Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 02, 2014, 01:27:51 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 01, 2014, 07:21:59 PM
They also have a much larger student body (7,500) than the rest of the SCIAC and NWC schools.
Also, you're counting grad students in that total. Chapman's undergrad population is only about 5,000-something.

According to Princeton Review, Chapman has 6,005 undergrads, more than Cal Lutheran (2,803) and Redlands (2,683) combined.

The SCIAC will rue the day it allowed Chapman into the conference.

OxyBob
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 02:36:44 PM
How about the comparison of Chapman at 6005 to Caltech at 985.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on December 02, 2014, 03:58:20 PM
Caltech is one of those exceptions though.  They've got a $1.8B endowment so if they chose to push athletics to the front like Amherst and Williams do I'm sure they would start to have success down the road.  But I don't think we'll be seeing that in our lifetime. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 04:43:09 PM
Both of those schools have between 1500 and 2000 students.  Caltech is uniquely small -- the only reason their endowment is so high is because of the academic standard they hold themselves to and they refuse to compromise those standards to build an athletics program.

I don't know how good this team will be...I've thought for the last 2-3 years they were due for a breakthrough -- they held their own in the NWC against George Fox, Willamette, and Pacific a couple weeks ago -- but they were obviously outclassed by Whitworth last week.  It would be really a cool thing to build a competitive basketball team out of future NASA engineers and Silicon Valley programmers -- the epitome of scholar athletes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2014, 06:00:30 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on December 02, 2014, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
Since when does the size of the student population have any effect upon how good a basketball team a school has? Teams aren't drawn from out of the student body at large. They're recruited.

Since always?  Teams are not drawn out of the student body but resources that support those teams are.

No, the resources of most of the top-drawer private school programs are drawn out of endowment money. Even if the operating procedures of the school state that the athletics budget must come out of student fees, that money is ultimately fungible for a wealthy institution. On the other hand, private schools that are tuition-driven with regard to their annual budgets generally have more difficulty competing nationally, although D3 does have plenty of exceptions to that rule.

Quote from: madzillagd on December 02, 2014, 12:08:27 PMIF schools choose to channel those resources towards athletics then they are at an advantage over schools that may be 1/5 their size (with exceptions of small schools with massive endowments).

... and those "small schools with massive endowments" include several SCIAC rivals of Chapman. Here's the 2013 endowment figures for SCIAC schools, according to NACUBO:

Pomona-Pitzer     $1,941.7m
Caltech     $1,849.8m
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps     $1,122.9m
Occidental         $356.7m
Chapman         $229.5m
Redlands         $110.8m
Whittier           $88.6m
California Lutheran           $59.1m
LaVerne           $56.4m

Quote from: madzillagd on December 02, 2014, 12:08:27 PMBut, we all know there are dozens if not hundreds of schools that don't go that route and channel their resources in other areas.

Doesn't matter. The point is that those endowment figures negate the statement that student population size is the determinant of athletic success. Those big-money schools have the resources to put together athletic programs like those in the UAA or the NESCAC if they so choose.

Quote from: madzillagd on December 02, 2014, 12:08:27 PMBut I think the results speak for themselves.  7 out of the last 10 Championships have been won by schools of 5,000 or more (UW-WW, UW-SP, UST, Wash U).  18 out of the last 25 have been won by schools with 3000+ in enrollment.

You're picking nits with the "3000+" figure, since that's likely somewhere in the vicinity of the D3 enrollment median (if not the mean). But I would argue that the results don't speak for themselves, because correlation does not equal causation in this case.

The WIAC schools are public institutions that enjoy the enormous advantage of an inexpensive tuition when compared to their local D3 rivals, as well as taxpayer-subsidized facilities (although it's not likely that WIAC schools are going to be able to go to that particular well for the near future if they're interested in upgrading facilities, which makes me wonder if UW-Superior really will start a football program once it joins the UMAC). Furthermore, Wisconsin has a dearth of small scholarship schools; UW-Parkside (D2) and Viterbo and Cardinal Stritch (both NAIA) are the only ones in the entire state. That means a distinct in-state recruiting advantage for WIAC schools in terms of the kids who are the next tier down from the D1 prospects. In other words, it's not an accident that UWW is the only school that has won the D3 Triple Crown (football, men's basketball, baseball) in a single school year, or that UWL is third and UWO fourth on the D3 list of overall team national championships -- but it's not because of enrollment size, either.

The University of St. Thomas is the beneficiary of enormous athletics donations that have upgraded UST's facilities to the point where they're at least equal to, if not superior to, pretty much every other school in all of D3. And Wash U, as a UAA school, has both the endowment resources and the academic cachet to be a national power in just about any D3 sport if it so chooses (and it does; WUSTL is a perennial Directors' Cup power and is currently tenth on the D3 overall team national championships list with 19 Walnut & Bronze trophies).

If your thesis was correct, comparatively huge state schools such as those within the SUNYAC, the NJAC, the MASCAC, and the Little Eight would be the kings of this division, across the board. And they're not. NYU, which has an undergraduate enrollment that dwarfs those of its UAA rivals (to say nothing of the rest of D3) would be the Tyrannosaurus Rex of D3. And it most certainly isn't.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on December 02, 2014, 03:31:05 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
Plenty of doubt in my mind. Whitworth was certainly a high-quality program under Coach Hayford, but you don't just snap your fingers and win a Walnut & Bronze. It's not that easy. Just ask Steve Moore at Wooster or Glenn Robinson at F&M.

Cool, you can have your doubts. But those guys who were coming to Whitworth just beat Indiana at Indiana. It's not a snap of your fingers--especially out in the PNW island, but the talent he was bringing in would have been right up there with anyone else in the country.

I won't disagree with that. But there's a world of difference between having talent that "would have been right up there with anyone else in the country" and your previous statement of absolute certitude, "There is no doubt in my mind that had Hayford stayed, Whitworth would have won a national championship at some point."

Quote from: OxyBob on December 02, 2014, 01:27:51 PMAccording to Princeton Review, Chapman has 6,005 undergrads, more than Cal Lutheran (2,803) and Redlands (2,683) combined.

After having checked petersons.com (which I should've done in the first place), I concede that my first source was incorrect.

Quote from: OxyBob on December 02, 2014, 01:27:51 PMThe SCIAC will rue the day it allowed Chapman into the conference.

Tilt on, Don Quixote. ;)

Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 04:43:09 PMBoth of those schools have between 1500 and 2000 students.  Caltech is uniquely small -- the only reason their endowment is so high is because of the academic standard they hold themselves to and they refuse to compromise those standards to build an athletics program.

No, the reason why Caltech's endowment is so high is because it has some extremely wealthy friends (probably most of whom are alumni) who have been generous benefactors of the institution. Some of those benefactors may have publicly stated that the school's academic standards and the administration's refusal to compromise them for the sake of athletics is their reason for giving Caltech money, but the existence of their wealth in the first place and their willingness to give it are the a priori causes of Caltech's brobdingnagian endowment. There is a correlation between having high academic standards and having a high endowment, although it's hardly automatic -- but there's certainly no correlation between having high academic standards and having an athletics program that's little more than an afterthought, as your own undergraduate institution (among many others in D3) proves. The College of Wooster is a good example of a D3 school that has both high-caliber academics and national athletic success.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2014, 07:35:08 PM
Greg, one nit to pick.  Unless my memory is even more shot than I think it is, the d3 median enrollment is a lot closer to 1,200 than 3,000.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PM
While I certainly agree that Wooster has high-caliber academics, they do not come close to approaching Caltech's. Just for a point of argument -- Wooster (as far as I'm aware) has one nobel prize winner in it's entire history, where-as Caltech currently has 5 on staff and 30+ in it's history. 

I think the size argument boils down to more space to put athletes.  At many schools with larger student bodies the admissions standards can be relaxed so that a stellar athlete that would contribute (say a d1 transfer for example) is guaranteed to get in.  This simply doesn't happen at Caltech and no amount of endowment dollars will create spots for athletes here. 

MIT might be a better comparison for Caltech -- they have a nationally ranked basketball program and are essentially the East Coast version of Caltech on steroids: ~5000 student undergrad enrollment. This allows them extra space to put athletes while maintaining their academic prowess.

Think about it this way: at Caltech a roster of 20 players is 2% of the entire student population....and now expand that over 17 sports programs...that would be 34% of Caltech's student body would need relaxed academic standards to build the kind of sports programs at larger schools.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2014, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PM
While I certainly agree that Wooster has high-caliber academics, they do not come close to approaching Caltech's. Just for a point of argument -- Wooster (as far as I'm aware) has one nobel prize winner in it's entire history, where-as Caltech currently has 5 on staff and 30+ in it's history. 

I think the size argument boils down to more space to put athletes.  At many schools with larger student bodies the admissions standards can be relaxed so that a stellar athlete that would contribute (say a d1 transfer for example) is guaranteed to get in.  This simply doesn't happen at Caltech and no amount of endowment dollars will create spots for athletes here. 

MIT might be a better comparison for Caltech -- they have a nationally ranked basketball program and are essentially the East Coast version of Caltech on steroids: ~5000 student undergrad enrollment. This allows them extra space to put athletes while maintaining their academic prowess.

Think about it this way: at Caltech a roster of 20 players is 2% of the entire student population....and now expand that over 17 sports programs...that would be 34% of Caltech's student body would need relaxed academic standards to build the kind of sports programs at larger schools.

The 'dumb jock' stereotype is alive and well, I see.  Obviously, high admissions standards will cut the pool of potential athletes, but there are still quite a few, and many (they're smart, after all!) will come specifically because of the high academic standards.  Stanford doesn't fare too badly, and (as far as I know) does not cut admissions standards much if at all for athletes.  IMO Caltech is relying on a myth to justify their ineptitude.  I suspect it is more campus culture: 'jocks' may be anathema to many (most?) faculty and many (most?) fellow students.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2014, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2014, 07:35:08 PM
Greg, one nit to pick.  Unless my memory is even more shot than I think it is, the d3 median enrollment is a lot closer to 1,200 than 3,000.

You're right, I got it backwards. It's the mean that's closer to 3,000.

Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PM
While I certainly agree that Wooster has high-caliber academics, they do not come close to approaching Caltech's. Just for a point of argument -- Wooster (as far as I'm aware) has one nobel prize winner in it's entire history, where-as Caltech currently has 5 on staff and 30+ in it's history.

I wasn't comparing Wooster's academics to Caltech's. Plus, as institutions go, they're really apples and oranges in terms of their respective missions.

Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PMI think the size argument boils down to more space to put athletes.  At many schools with larger student bodies the admissions standards can be relaxed so that a stellar athlete that would contribute (say a d1 transfer for example) is guaranteed to get in.  This simply doesn't happen at Caltech and no amount of endowment dollars will create spots for athletes here.

Caltech is not a good example to cite in this case, because the prominent role played by faculty members in the admissions process makes it (AFAIK) unique among D3 institutions.

I don't think that enrollment size really enters into the selection process with regard to student-athletes at most schools. If a school is OK with lowering the threshold for an athlete (whether it's a slight lowering or a large lowering), it'll do so regardless of enrollment size, and vice-versa. 

Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PMMIT might be a better comparison for Caltech -- they have a nationally ranked basketball program and are essentially the East Coast version of Caltech on steroids: ~5000 student undergrad enrollment. This allows them extra space to put athletes while maintaining their academic prowess.

Again, though, this is a matter of institutional choice. MIT could have an undergrad enrollment as large or as small as it chooses, and so could Caltech. They each have both the money and the academic cachet to call their own tune in that regard. I have to repeat what I said earlier about Caltech: We're talking about an outlier here in terms of the typical profile of D3 institutions. Same goes for MIT, for slightly different reasons.

Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PMThink about it this way: at Caltech a roster of 20 players is 2% of the entire student population....and now expand that over 17 sports programs...that would be 34% of Caltech's student body would need relaxed academic standards to build the kind of sports programs at larger schools.

I disagree. Williams has barely 2,000 students. It also sponsors 32 sports, including football, which means that a huge percentage of the student body consists of student-athletes -- and I don't recall anyone saying that Williams has "relaxed academic standards."

The bottom line is that Caltech has both the financial resources and the internationally-renowned academic profile to shape its undergraduate student body in any way that it likes. The fact that it chooses to go small and historically resists even the faintest whiff of jock-friendly policies doesn't translate into the larger question of whether or not enrollment size dictates success in the larger D3 world.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2014, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2014, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PM
While I certainly agree that Wooster has high-caliber academics, they do not come close to approaching Caltech's. Just for a point of argument -- Wooster (as far as I'm aware) has one nobel prize winner in it's entire history, where-as Caltech currently has 5 on staff and 30+ in it's history. 

I think the size argument boils down to more space to put athletes.  At many schools with larger student bodies the admissions standards can be relaxed so that a stellar athlete that would contribute (say a d1 transfer for example) is guaranteed to get in.  This simply doesn't happen at Caltech and no amount of endowment dollars will create spots for athletes here. 

MIT might be a better comparison for Caltech -- they have a nationally ranked basketball program and are essentially the East Coast version of Caltech on steroids: ~5000 student undergrad enrollment. This allows them extra space to put athletes while maintaining their academic prowess.

Think about it this way: at Caltech a roster of 20 players is 2% of the entire student population....and now expand that over 17 sports programs...that would be 34% of Caltech's student body would need relaxed academic standards to build the kind of sports programs at larger schools.

The 'dumb jock' stereotype is alive and well, I see.  Obviously, high admissions standards will cut the pool of potential athletes, but there are still quite a few, and many (they're smart, after all!) will come specifically because of the high academic standards.  Stanford doesn't fare too badly, and (as far as I know) does not cut admissions standards much if at all for athletes.  IMO Caltech is relying on a myth to justify their ineptitude.  I suspect it is more campus culture: 'jocks' may be anathema to many (most?) faculty and many (most?) fellow students.

Even more than campus culture, it's the admissions process at Caltech that cuts the pool of potential student-athletes. Caltech faculty members play a prominent role in the analysis of each Caltech applicant, and their veto power in the admissions process represents a hurdle that's very hard to overcome as far as Caltech athletics is concerned. I don't know any Caltech faculty members, so I'd be stereotyping if I said that they were largely anti-jock, but if I was a coach or an athletic director I'd be in despair if my school's professors had the yea or nay on whether or not my recruits were admitted. ;) As a former college educator yourself (even though Eastern Michigan is a vastly different institution than Caltech), I'm sure you're aware of the common perception of athletes among those who teach college students.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2014, 09:05:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2014, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2014, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: WoostAr on December 02, 2014, 07:45:06 PM
While I certainly agree that Wooster has high-caliber academics, they do not come close to approaching Caltech's. Just for a point of argument -- Wooster (as far as I'm aware) has one nobel prize winner in it's entire history, where-as Caltech currently has 5 on staff and 30+ in it's history. 

I think the size argument boils down to more space to put athletes.  At many schools with larger student bodies the admissions standards can be relaxed so that a stellar athlete that would contribute (say a d1 transfer for example) is guaranteed to get in.  This simply doesn't happen at Caltech and no amount of endowment dollars will create spots for athletes here. 

MIT might be a better comparison for Caltech -- they have a nationally ranked basketball program and are essentially the East Coast version of Caltech on steroids: ~5000 student undergrad enrollment. This allows them extra space to put athletes while maintaining their academic prowess.

Think about it this way: at Caltech a roster of 20 players is 2% of the entire student population....and now expand that over 17 sports programs...that would be 34% of Caltech's student body would need relaxed academic standards to build the kind of sports programs at larger schools.

The 'dumb jock' stereotype is alive and well, I see.  Obviously, high admissions standards will cut the pool of potential athletes, but there are still quite a few, and many (they're smart, after all!) will come specifically because of the high academic standards.  Stanford doesn't fare too badly, and (as far as I know) does not cut admissions standards much if at all for athletes.  IMO Caltech is relying on a myth to justify their ineptitude.  I suspect it is more campus culture: 'jocks' may be anathema to many (most?) faculty and many (most?) fellow students.

Even more than campus culture, it's the admissions process at Caltech that cuts the pool of potential student-athletes. Caltech faculty members play a prominent role in the analysis of each Caltech applicant, and their veto power in the admissions process represents a hurdle that's very hard to overcome as far as Caltech athletics is concerned. I don't know any Caltech faculty members, so I'd be stereotyping if I said that they were largely anti-jock, but if I was a coach or an athletic director I'd be in despair if my school's professors had the yea or nay on whether or not my recruits were admitted. ;) As a former college educator yourself (even though Eastern Michigan is a vastly different institution than Caltech), I'm sure you're aware of the common perception of athletes among those who teach college students.

Yes, and while there are a fair number of 'jock-sniffers', I'm pretty sure they were outnumbered by 'dumb jocks' types.  You may recall Rick Telander (wrote for SI for a number of years) - he went 1600 on the SATs then was at least All Big Ten (may have been AA but I can't recall) at Northwestern.  Really smart 'jocks' do exist, though the pool is fairly limited.  Caltech could be competitive if they had the desire, but apparently they don't.  My hunch would be that the Caltech faculty is VERY heavily anti-jock and would see a Rick Telander's athletic skills as a strike against, rather than a plus.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2014, 09:11:06 PM
I have the same hunch about the Caltech faculty.

Telander, by the way, is a Chicago Sun-Times columnist now. Speaking as someone who reads him off and on, I can attest that his writing since he became an employee of the Not-So-Bright-One among the two Windy City dailies is giving former 1600 SAT achievers a bad name. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on December 03, 2014, 06:02:24 PM
Did you guys watch Revenge of the Nerds and think it was factual?? 

High school clubs, sports and other extra-curriculars are all bonuses in Caltech's admissions process. It just so happens Caltech also requires perfect SAT math and science subject tests to be considered.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2014, 06:36:17 PM
Quote from: WoostAr on December 03, 2014, 06:02:24 PM
Did you guys watch Revenge of the Nerds and think it was factual??

You mean, it wasn't?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.geocaching.com%2Fcache%2F3b3d5668-4982-440a-9306-70c1342dd45a.jpg&hash=97dbe2af2c4b1b6fcf4edb29b07ba27b33f75fff)

Quote from: WoostAr on December 03, 2014, 06:02:24 PM
High school clubs, sports and other extra-curriculars are all bonuses in Caltech's admissions process.

I'm sure that they are, on paper. I'm simply skeptical that your typical prof in a school geared towards classroom high-achievers is going to take a sanguine view of the academic potential of a high-school senior who doesn't view a locker room as enemy territory.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 04, 2014, 06:52:16 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F33.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_ls400eJKpe1r317bvo1_250.gif&hash=aed08b192de4e20eef54718bcd4a4e57484f4526)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2014, 07:02:07 PM
I never give out karma, (509)Rat, but I'm sorely tempted to give you a +1 for that gif.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 06, 2014, 12:14:35 AM
Hey everyone!  Batuik getting less than 5 minutes per game?  On a team that is 1-5?  At least Dotes knew what kind of talent he had!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 07, 2014, 02:41:41 AM
Playball,

Time to bring back Doty. He was out coached by the top coaches in the conference but he recruited players capable of competing in at this level. Looks like another long year for you guys.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 07, 2014, 02:00:54 PM
Playball:

What are you saying?  It sounds like you are not impressed with the new coach.  Have you seen any of Linfield games? Is Batiuk healthy?  From the stats (I have not seen any of their games, so I may be off base), it looks like they are bringing him back slowly.  His stats are not impressive.  What else is going on?

Wow Buc, what a compliment!  Sounds a lot like "..but she's got a great personality", "...but he sure could recruit".  His last 3 years, they finished 7th, then 8th, then 9th, and you want him back?  Doesn't sound like even average recruiting to me.  Be careful what you wish for!

I would suggest you give this coach a chance for a couple of years until he has all of his own recruits.  He was not left with much returning talent and is in only his 2nd year!

BTW, it is nice to see you back, Playball!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 07, 2014, 05:47:44 PM
Slowly is 5,10,15,20, then 30 a game while ramping up things in practice.  He had one game where he got 10-15 minutes and then boom, zeroes.  He was all conference and now can't sniff the court.  That says either one of two things, linfield got some unreal posts or he isn't on the same page as the coach.  What waste of talent on the bench.

And so far no, I'm not impressed.  Even when we were horrid my senior year we wouldn't ever lose to a team like Portland Bible...

Good to be back!  Someone needs to represent for the cellar dwellers!!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 07, 2014, 08:12:22 PM
Quote from: playball on December 07, 2014, 05:47:44 PM
...linfield got some unreal posts...

I'm going to say no. Good to have you back playball. Love your insight as a former player.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 08, 2014, 08:49:16 PM
Batiuk can't be healthy.  I asked a person who watches a lot of basketball games at Linfield about Batiuk and he mentioned that his lateral speed isn't there yet. What we need more than anything are some good outside shooters as it doesn't look like we have that. Our size is a lot better than a year ago and the talent looks better... Really young... But better... Still no all conference caliber guys at this point... They sure do execute their sets... Just can't put the ball in the hole...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 09, 2014, 05:26:15 AM
Not to hate on Batuik, but his lateral speed was never his greatest attribute. 

We don't have three point shooters?  Are we watching the same game?  Cali and Potter are hitting over 40% with a solid sample size.  I do agree though that we are having a tough time finding the net, so that's why I'm so perplexed on why one of the best scorers in the conference is getting splinters.  8 minutes a game on average?  Unreal!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on December 12, 2014, 12:56:53 PM
Playball:

The Portland Bible loss can't look so bad now that they have also taken down UPS and GF at GF!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 13, 2014, 04:43:16 PM
It's still Portland Bible!!! :o
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 16, 2014, 10:47:40 PM
Mssrs.Sager and Ypsi, thank-you for giving me something to read other than Whitworth stuff now that football is over and I wander over here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 23, 2014, 02:21:24 PM
Whitworth has been playing much better basketball as of late, even if the teams they've played aren't great. Trinity was most surprising to me. That's a program that has absolutely fallen off a cliff this year. They gave Wash U and Wheaton close games (2 and 5 pt losses), but they clearly aren't 2011-2014 Trinity.

Whitworth won't go 19-31 from the 3pt line again, like they did against Wells, but it was reassuring to see that this team has more than a couple guys who can shoot. Jurlina and Staudacher are both shooting better than 50% from 3 with 48 and 26 attempts respectively. Isaak has also come off the bench and taken 28, making 39% of em. Farnsworth doesn't score in the post as consistently as some of the previous centers, meaning Whitworth will have to make shots from the outside to beat their bigger/better opponents.

Excited for conference play. I have no idea what will happen in that first Whit game. I wouldn't be shocked if either team won. Would only surprise me if it was lopsided. I don't think UPS will finish ahead of either Whit in conference play this year. Their non-conference results haven't been impressive at all. Then again, nobody in the NWC played fantastic basketball up till this point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 29, 2014, 02:14:24 PM
So apparently the pollsters deserve a little more credit than I was giving them...as does Chapman.  Sounds like they've got a pretty strong squad this year.

Conference play right around the corner, and WMN starts @ LC, WU, & WW, all on the road, 3 games in 5 days.  If WMN gets all three of these, they've sent a huge message to the rest of the NWC.  2 out of 3 is strong, and I can't see them only getting 1 out of 3, but i just don't know what to expect from LC.

No at large bids going to the NWC this year, so the conference play is just about positioning for home court advantage during the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 03, 2015, 01:32:08 AM
Well, when two teams square off, one team has to win, right? Geesh. LC/WMN was UGLY.

Lewis & Clark turned the ball over 30...yes, thirty times. They also shot a blistering 63% from the free throw line. Not to be outdone, WMN shot 35% from the floor and had 5 assists...yes, five assists...all game--namely because they played one-on-five on offense every possession. At the end of the day, the W (on the road @ LC) is all that matters, but WMN has to be better on Tuesday in Spokane.

I'm curios to see WW @ LC tomorrow, and any feedback as to why WW/WU was only a 10 pt game??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 03, 2015, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 03, 2015, 01:32:08 AM
I'm curios to see WW @ LC tomorrow, and any feedback as to why WW/WU was only a 10 pt game??

It was less than 10, but a combination of two things: poor shooting (33% as a team) and 24 turnovers ???. Willamette hit a bunch of 3's to stay in the game. Blackhawk--you said Whitman needs to play better in Spokane to beat Whitworth, well Whitworth has to play better in Spokane to beat Whitman. Sounds like neither team played well tonight, but both gutted out a W. Hopefully the E. Wash. teams play better tomorrow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 03, 2015, 10:13:04 AM
Yup, turnovers and poor shooting. "Cold" isn't a strong enough word to describe Whitworth's shooting efforts last night. As long as one of those two things changes for the better tonight Whitworth should win. Whitman's system/style will make their game with Willamette an ugly one for the Bearcats. The pace and the pressure tends to expose teams with inferior talent. Whitman should step on the gas early and not let off for 40 min. Could very easily be a 20-30 point game tonight in Salem.

The first whit game in Spokane should be fun. Hopefully both teams play better basketball in that one for the fans' sake.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 03, 2015, 10:18:01 PM
I know these are private schools in the pnw, and we're probably too busy teaching these kids about recycling, peaceful protest, and nature, but can we please take 5 minutes to get it together with the video broadcasts?

Lewis & Clark: You nail the rap music during the breaks (thank god), but forget to plug the mic in for the sportscaster until there's 5 minutes left in the game--so the whole game there's no sound.

Willamette: Your entire video broadcast is flashing to black...all...the...time.

Listen I'm no media expert, but allow me to offer a few tips:
1.  Broadcasters:  Before the game, practice saying each players name.  Make sure you can properly pronounce it.  This seems like Sportscasting 101, no? 
2.  Camera Crew:  Let's make sure that we follow the action...(this part is important)...WITH the camera. 
3.  Media Crew:  Maybe we double check that everything is plugged in and working properly?

Sweet jesus.

Whitman does NOT look good again, shooting 35% from the floor--doesn't seem like they're getting quality possessions.  Willamette is terrible...just terrible.  I have no better word to describe.  It's embarrassing that the score is only 40-27 at half.  Looks like everyone else is in the conference is taking care of business.

Editing this post:  It's a 6 point lead and this is unbearable to watch.  I've now turned the game off and will just have to check the score later.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 03, 2015, 11:22:30 PM
Whitworth handled L&C, 62-47. Up by 20 at the half and survived the Pios comeback attempt. Like I said, if either the shooting or the TO improved from last night they should win. They really don't have to play a great game to beat most of the NWC. 8 turnovers tonight. Still only shot 33% from 3 and low 40's% from the field. They got outrebounded but when your opponent misses so many shots that is usually inevitable. The Pios shot 6% from 3....

Tuesday should be fun. Whitworth certainly would be the favorite if Vegas put odds on division 3 basketball games. The question for both Whits is really, which team shows up? They've both had Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde moments so far this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 05, 2015, 03:22:20 PM
UPS looked very good on both ends of the floor. Their PG play is a little suspect but he is a tough kid. Holden had great numbers and Shattuck is scortching the nets as of late. They can go inside and out, they can play D and they rebound very well. Also, they can play fast or slow as they have some talent on the perimeter. I see them battling for the top spot. They will get both Whits at home this year and possibly on the road at WM. Lets go Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 07, 2015, 02:35:39 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 23, 2014, 01:02:59 PM
I'm worried WW isn't even a playoff team.

Great game tonight  ;D But seriously, it really was a fun game to watch. Back and forth battle, and Whitworth was able to hit some big shots down the stretch. Whitman went cold--from the field and the line--and Whitworth was able to hold 'em off. Blackhawk, your thoughts on the game? I still think Whitman poses a threat to Whitworth--especially if they hold serve down in W2. Not counting out UPS either. Looking forward to Linfield Friday.

Predictions this Friday: Whitworth, LC, PLU and UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 07, 2015, 04:50:40 AM
Whitworth beat Whitman 66-57. Missionaries avg around 90 pts/game... Close game throughout with something like 500 lead changes. And the road to the playoffs will most likely go through Spokane...again
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 08, 2015, 01:36:40 AM
You're teeing me up here, Pinecone, thank you.  I was impressed by WW in three areas:

1.  Their entire broadcast.  WOW.  Talk about the class of the conference.
2.  I always forget, but it's such a great small college hoops atmosphere.  One of the best on the west coast.
3.  Farnsworth--particularly on the defensive end.  I though his shot blocking presence affected Whitman's offense

Other than that I was very unimpressed by WW.  This is the weakest WW team in recent memory.  I've never seen so many airballs, is that normal??  But, on this night they won, and that's all that counts.

It was one of the most bizarre games I've watched.  WMN shot 13-26 from the ft line (should have won the game here).  This will never happen again.  WMN shot 2-21 from the arc--and for the most part, they weren't bad looks.  Again, this will never happen again.  They didn't struggle to get good looks.  WMN scored 60 points, but outside of a little Farnsworth, it wasn't WW's D.

WMN did not look good their first two conference games, but last night, they played all right for 30ish minutes.  If I went back and watched the game analyzing possessions, and not watching if the ball went in the hoop, I would have put WMN up by 15-20.  I feel like a broken record from last year, but these guys have to stay healthy!  Last night was their first game with their whole team, Oti just back from injury, Clough coming off 1 game suspension, Dunham's been hurt, blah, blah, blah.  They need to play together and settle into roles.

Honestly, I don't think WW has a prayer in Walla Walla.

Last point:  It's a crazy year in the NWC this year.  Puget is the wild card here (ps. Holden is my MVP), but if Puget cant steal one from WW or WMN, the rest of the teams are so bad that you could see Eastern Washington go 30-2 in conference.  My gut says Puget gets at least one from WW, but has a shot in all 4 games.       
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 08, 2015, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 08, 2015, 01:36:40 AM
2.  I always forget, but it's such a great small college hoops atmosphere.  The best on the west coast.

FTFY

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 08, 2015, 01:36:40 AM
This is the weakest WW team in recent memory. I've never seen so many airballs, is that normal??  But, on this night they won, and that's all that counts.

I agree. I've said all year this is probably the weakest team in recent memory, but Whitworth is relying more on depth this year than star power.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 08, 2015, 01:36:40 AM
It was one of the most bizarre games I've watched.  WMN shot 13-26 from the ft line (should have won the game here).  This will never happen again.  WMN shot 2-21 from the arc--and for the most part, they weren't bad looks.  Again, this will never happen again.  They didn't struggle to get good looks.  WMN scored 60 points, but outside of a little Farnsworth, it wasn't WW's D.

That may never happen again, but Whitworth's poor shooting was an anomaly too. The Pirates coming into the game lead the NWC and are 9th in all of D3 in 3-point shooting percentage. So don't expect such cold shooting down in W2.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 08, 2015, 01:36:40 AM
Honestly, I don't think WW has a prayer in Walla Walla.

Oh, they have a prayer. You always come here with these guarantees and predictions, and yet are rarely right. So I'm pretty excited that you say Whitworth has no prayer in W2!  ;D
   
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 08, 2015, 01:36:40 AM
Puget is the wild card here (ps. Holden is my MVP), but if Puget cant steal one from WW or WMN, the rest of the teams are so bad that you could see Eastern Washington go 30-2 in conference.  My gut says Puget gets at least one from WW, but has a shot in all 4 games.

Totally agree with you here. UPS is a wild card. They have looked similar to WW and WM: hit or miss. Depends on what teams show up that night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 10, 2015, 09:22:33 AM
Well UPS was a big miss last night. The Loggers lost to Willamette in OT. Good win for the Bearcats who have been playing better than expected this year in NWC play. Not sure what happened, but dropping games to the bottom run of the conference can't happen if you're looking to knock Whitworth from the top.

Linfield has some guys that can play, but they aren't going to win many games this year. Who knows how Whitman will play but I expect them to take out some frustrations on the Wildcats tonight in Walla Walla.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 10, 2015, 11:43:42 AM
The UPS/WU game was actually entertaining. Both teams played tough the entire game. Holden was a beast but some crucial easy buckets lead to the loss. Great win for the Bearcats.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Corazon on January 10, 2015, 01:50:17 PM
Tough loss for The Loggers
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2015, 01:30:22 AM
Quote from: Corazon on January 10, 2015, 01:50:17 PM
Tough loss for The Loggers

The understatement of the year.

I didn't see the WMN bloodbath tonight, but it's what I expected after Tuesday. Poor Linfield. This is a 2 horse race, and those two teams have a good chance at 15-1 this year (if somebody does get WW on the road). Were 15-1's the the case, and losses are to each other, the tie breaker has to be decided by head-to-head score??



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2015, 01:32:57 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 10, 2015, 09:22:33 AMWho knows how Whitman will play but I expect them to take out some frustrations on the Wildcats tonight in Walla Walla.

#rattheprophet
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2015, 12:42:05 PM
Blackhawk deserves some karma points for his #rattheprophet line.  Given his negative rating in the karma points he could use a few positive votes.  Please help him out

A few thoughts:

WU looks like the dark horse candidate to me. Wins over UPS and GF. Their only losses are to the Whits.

It is a little premature to think that the Eastern Washington teams will go 15-1. Everyone thinks that this is weakest WW team in recent memory and Whitman tends to blow some unlikely games at some point every year. It's a long road to 15-1.

More likely we see WW 16–0.  ;D

What is wrong with LF? 

If you use Siri to write your posts on this blog, be sure and correct what Siri translates Blackhawk to before you hit send.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 11, 2015, 02:42:41 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2015, 12:42:05 PMIf you use Siri to write your posts on this blog, be sure and correct what Siri translates Blackhawk to before you hit send.

+k

Since this has turned into an Eastern Washington board, here's some other conference updates:

1/10
GF              72
Willamette  75

Pacific   64
UPS      76

PLU   56
L&C   63

Linfield     51
Whitman  109

Standings
Whitworth     4-0
Whitman       3-1
UPS              2-1
L&C              2-2
GF                2-2
Willamette    2-2
PLU              1-2
Pacific          1-3
Linfield         0-4

top 5 of Whits, UPS, L&C, GF...who could have predicted that?  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 11, 2015, 07:05:19 PM
51-109? Whitman? Really?   ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 11, 2015, 07:11:20 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2015, 12:42:05 PM
Blackhawk deserves some karma points for his #rattheprophet line.  Given his negative rating in the karma points he could use a few positive votes.  Please help him out

True. Great line, blackhawk. How do I give K tho?

Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2015, 12:42:05 PM
What is wrong with LF? 

Young and injured. From what I've heard, Batiuk is slowly coming back and they have another big who is out. Plus--aside from Cali--they are very young. 13 of the 18 on their listed roster are underclassmen.

LC/Willamette Tuesday might end up being a really good game! I might have to make my way across town to LC to catch that game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 12, 2015, 10:30:39 AM
Is Brakebush hurt for Pacific?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2015, 11:40:57 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 11, 2015, 07:11:20 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2015, 12:42:05 PM
Blackhawk deserves some karma points for his #rattheprophet line.  Given his negative rating in the karma points he could use a few positive votes.  Please help him out

True. Great line, blackhawk. How do I give K tho?

You need to reach 200 posts before you have the right to give or take away karma.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 13, 2015, 07:43:41 PM
13 of 18 are listed as underclassmen?  That may play into it but I see 18 guys on a roster as an issue!  Good grief!  I hope they do a four team tournament at the end of the season at Linfield with a 6 man alumni team being one team! 

As for the state of the conference, is the conference down talent wise overall or is the talent just pooled in a couple teams?  That Whitman LF score has to be some sort of record...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 14, 2015, 01:21:23 PM
Don't worry Playball, it's been worse.  We got beat by 60 when I was at WW not once, but twice. Once was to Idaho. They went to the Elite eight in the division I tourney that year. The other was to central Washington. They had a roster full of ex-division 1 players that had dropped out of school for awhile and were back playing. The average age of the starting line up was 26. One guy was happy to be on the court after getting out of prison. Their point guard had played at WSU. Our starting forward was from Pullman Washington and when he was in eighth grade he'd gotten the point guard's autograph after a WSU game.

As I was saying not to worry. what goes around comes around. Sometime in your life time, probably not mine, Linfield will win the league championship and Whitworth will be at the bottom.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 15, 2015, 11:02:19 AM
Quote from: playball on January 13, 2015, 07:43:41 PM
13 of 18 are listed as underclassmen?  That may play into it but I see 18 guys on a roster as an issue! 

Pacific and Willamette now have JV teams.  I couldn't find any mention of LF having one.  Didn't they used to have one?  Are they ramping up for another one?  Just a thought.  It would be nice to have a JV league in the NWC again.

And when you are struggling, sometimes you go looking for a diamond in the rough.  But I agree.  How do you get enough reps in practice when there are 18 kids going through them?  Have a seat while you are waiting your turn during layups?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 15, 2015, 03:55:30 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 15, 2015, 11:02:19 AM
Pacific and Willamette now have JV teams.  I couldn't find any mention of LF having one.  Didn't they used to have one?  Are they ramping up for another one?  Just a thought.  It would be nice to have a JV league in the NWC again.

Are we sure it's not their JV teams playing on Friday & Saturday nights??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 17, 2015, 01:10:36 AM
Is anybody else having a tough time live streaming these games?  Couldn't get the WMN-GF live stream until 2nd half.  Anyways, here's the feedback:

1. The GF announcer was FANTASTIC.  Clearly a hometown broadcaster (cheering for Fox), which he should be, but he was excellent.  I was very impressed
2.  Hard to think GF is going to maintain any type of composure when the head coach is giving chest bumps at half court during a timeout.  Really?  Act like you've been there before?  I think the chest bump left him woozy, because either he lost track of his math or forgot how long the shot clock was.  In a two possession game WMN drained the entire shot clock (game clock to :18) without GF fouling.   
3.  WMN just cannot continue to go 2-15 from 3 and 11-19 from the line.  It's hard to stay in a game, let alone win a game when you shoot like that.
4.  Evan Martin is a beast.  Does the guy miss?  Tochi Oti is slowly coming back from injury.  In my opinion, he is the best guard in the conference, and WMN needs him back firing on all cylinders.

I would expect both Eastern Wash. teams to perform at a higher level tomorrow night.
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 17, 2015, 11:03:05 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 15, 2015, 03:55:30 PM

Are we sure it's not their JV teams playing on Friday & Saturday nights??

...WMN shot 2-21 from the arc--and for the most part, they weren't bad looks.  Again, this will never happen again.

WMN has deserved this for a while now.  20% from 3, 50% from the line.  When you play with fire...

Impressed with how well prepared Pacific was.  Great livestream too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2015, 02:55:12 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 11, 2015, 12:42:05 PM
Whitman tends to blow some unlikely games at some point every year.

So Blackhawk, am I a prophet now?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 18, 2015, 09:16:06 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 17, 2015, 01:10:36 AMI would expect both Eastern Wash. teams to perform at a higher level tomorrow night.

#halfprophet

UPS has 2 conference losses and they haven't made the E WA trip yet...still a lot of basketball left to play but they can't afford to keep dropping games to teams that don't start with Whit.

If this is Whitworth's worst team, and Whitman still can't get over the hump, how much longer does Bridgeland stay?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2015, 04:47:28 PM
Where is Bridgeland going to go?  If a Bigger school is going to take anyone from the NWC it will be Logie at this point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 19, 2015, 12:46:44 AM
No idea how long LINFIELD has not had a JV team.
Yes, they had one. Saw them beat U of O frosh back when Bobby Moore (A. Rashad) was playing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2015, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on January 19, 2015, 12:46:44 AM
No idea how long LINFIELD has not had a JV team.
Yes, they had one. Saw them beat U of O frosh back when Bobby Moore (A. Rashad) was playing.

And now they couldn't even beat A. Rashad by himself. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 20, 2015, 01:53:51 PM
Questions remaining?

1.  Will WW go 16-0?
2.  Will LF go 0-16?
3.  How many more meltdowns will WN have?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 21, 2015, 04:02:40 PM
1. Hopefully
2. Probably
3. Two
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on January 21, 2015, 05:42:06 PM
Linfield had a JV program thru the Doty era but dropped it starting last season.  It was a rare player who made the move from JV to Varsity at Linfield.  The JV team seemed to always be full of players who came to Linfield to play hoops but weren't recruited (or at least not that heavily) by Doty.  During my time at Linfield, 1990-1994, I can think of only a single player who played substantial minutes on the JV team and then later in his career had an important role on the Varsity - Jason DeVries.  By important I mean starting and or playing meaningful minutes off the bench.

The disadvantages of a JV program are all based on time and energy for the coaching staff - schedule games, travel to games, coach games, etc.  With basically only coach Doty it was too much when you consider his head coaching duties plus HHPA and teaching responsibilities.  If a coach only has to worry about coaching I can see devoting the energy to a JV program.  That isn't the case at Linfield.

Maybe down the road there will be money in the budget for a JV coach.  Right now they need to focus on developing their varsity players who are mostly in essence JV players right now (18-19 year old boys playing against men).

It would be great if all the local teams had JV programs for both basketball and football.  I love the idea of more playing opportunities in relatively meaningful games vs practice.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2015, 03:27:16 AM
I thought we walked down this bridge last year...let's not forget that WMN was the laughing stock of the NWC for as long as one can remember before his arrival, to the tune of 3-13, 1-15, last place, 5 win total type seasons. Let's not insinuate failure because WW hasn't been knocked off the helm yet.  Rome wasn't built in a day.

WW will NOT go undefeated--they drop 2 out of their next 5.

Linfield gets a win.

UPS is better than they've shown.

WMN can't possibly get worse, can they?? Is it even possible to shoot 40% from the line and 10% from three??

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 22, 2015, 04:37:57 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2015, 03:27:16 AM
I thought we walked down this bridge last year...let's not forget that WMN was the laughing stock of the NWC for as long as one can remember before his arrival, to the tune of 3-13, 1-15, last place, 5 win total type seasons. Let's not insinuate failure because WW hasn't been knocked off the helm yet.  Rome wasn't built in a day.

WW will NOT go undefeated--they drop 2 out of their next 5.

Linfield gets a win.

UPS is better than they've shown.

WMN can't possibly get worse, can they?? Is it even possible to shoot 40% from the line and 10% from three??


No one is insinuating failure with regard to WM. However I don't see Bridgeland getting offered a better job than Whitman in the near future unless he starts going to the NCAA tournament.

Whitworth may not go undefeated, but at this point they're the only team that has a chance.

Whitworth plays four of their next five games at home I don't see them dropping two.

UPS is probably my Second favorite team in the conference. I hope they are better than their record but your record usually reflects how you are.

Whitman will shoot worse when they face Whitworth defense. 😄

Rat is the prophet not Blachhawk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 22, 2015, 09:02:24 PM
Has Bridgeland needed a "better" offer to leave in the past? Had he stayed anywhere longer than 5 years prior to Whitman? Despite the money the University has put into the program, can he get good players to voluntarily go to Walla Walla to attend Whitman? (Hint: one kinda sucks and the other really sucks)

QuoteRome wasn't built in a day
Bridgeland has never stayed anywhere long enough to build Ritzville, let alone Rome

Don't anyone forget I was right about Lunt too...too bad all of our UPS friends left about the same time Bridgeland's recruits did. UPS' team and presence on this board really took a hit that year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2015, 09:35:00 PM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on January 21, 2015, 05:42:06 PM
Linfield had a JV program thru the Doty era but dropped it starting last season.  It was a rare player who made the move from JV to Varsity at Linfield.  The JV team seemed to always be full of players who came to Linfield to play hoops but weren't recruited (or at least not that heavily) by Doty.  During my time at Linfield, 1990-1994, I can think of only a single player who played substantial minutes on the JV team and then later in his career had an important role on the Varsity - Jason DeVries.  By important I mean starting and or playing meaningful minutes off the bench.

The disadvantages of a JV program are all based on time and energy for the coaching staff - schedule games, travel to games, coach games, etc.  With basically only coach Doty it was too much when you consider his head coaching duties plus HHPA and teaching responsibilities.  If a coach only has to worry about coaching I can see devoting the energy to a JV program.  That isn't the case at Linfield.

Maybe down the road there will be money in the budget for a JV coach.  Right now they need to focus on developing their varsity players who are mostly in essence JV players right now (18-19 year old boys playing against men).

It would be great if all the local teams had JV programs for both basketball and football.  I love the idea of more playing opportunities in relatively meaningful games vs practice.

I think that there's three basic reasons to have a JV program. In random order, they are:

1) Exposure and participation. Having a JV team is an added way to get your school's name out there, which is especially important for recruiting purposes. It also gets more student-athletes involved, which is: a) good for a coach who is required by his school's administration to meet a recruiting quota; and b) a way to create more goodwill in-house for the program.

2) Player development. If your program maintains a solid tier of juniors and seniors who grab the lion's share of varsity playing time every season, a JV team allows you to develop your freshmen and sophomores by giving them game experience against their underclassmen peers.

3) Juco scouting. By scheduling your JV team to play jucos instead of just playing other JV teams from four-year schools, you get a chance to evaluate juco players firsthand, expose them to your school and program, and keep relationships going with juco coaches.

Not every school operates a JV team for all three of those reasons. Heck, a JV team in one sport may operate for a different reason or reasons than a JV team from another sport at the same school. And there can be a wide variation within leagues as to why member schools have JV teams. To use my own league, the CCIW, as an example, Illinois Wesleyan and Augustana have always used their JV teams for reason #2, as their junior varsities basically function as feeder teams for their varsities. But North Park has used its JV team for reason #3, since jucos are thick on the ground in Chicagoland and NPU has always had a strong transfer element within the program. Like Linfield, NPU has rarely used the JV team for developmental purposes. In fact, at North Park it's more common for a varsity player to be sent down to the JV (often at his own request), in order to get more playing time because his varsity minutes have diminished, than it is for a player to begin at the JV level and work his way up. That was true in the national championship days as well as in the more recent era in which NPU has struggled.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 23, 2015, 10:03:16 AM
Great points, Greg!

I think you touched on it, but I would also add that, for some schools, 5 or 10 more students would be nice additions to the student body and financial numbers.  It never hurts to have more reason(s) for students to enroll in your school.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 23, 2015, 12:48:44 PM
Rat, you may have been partially right abou t Lunt and Bridgelands recruits leaving UPS and all that, but one thing you have to remember, Bridge has not beat Lunt in the playoffs yet. So, when you think about that, does your proclamation about Lunt really matter? Record might not be that great as of late, but when comparing Lunt and Bridge, which we will do until either leave the league, Lunt out coaches him head to head, and with two totally different styles. People would say all Lunt knows is what Bridge showed him with dribble drive and the pres, but now, Lunt has evolved and is getting gret results. Their team this year, WILL take down Whitworth!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 23, 2015, 09:42:18 PM
Quote from: Keandre on January 23, 2015, 12:48:44 PM
Rat, you may have been partially right abou t Lunt and Bridgelands recruits leaving UPS and all that, but one thing you have to remember, Bridge has not beat Lunt in the playoffs yet. So, when you think about that, does your proclamation about Lunt really matter? Record might not be that great as of late, but when comparing Lunt and Bridge, which we will do until either leave the league, Lunt out coaches him head to head, and with two totally different styles. People would say all Lunt knows is what Bridge showed him with dribble drive and the pres, but now, Lunt has evolved and is getting gret results. Their team this year, WILL take down Whitworth!

I like Lunt and he does a great job of coaching. However, coaching is only half the battle.  You have to recruit and Bridgeland brings in better talent than Lunt. Gotta give Bridgeland his due on what he's done at both places.  Given that Logie out recruits AND out coaches Lunt, this will not be the decade UPS takes down WW.

With regard to JV teams.  When WW had a JV team most of the JV  starters eventually moved up to varsity. That said, the winning started after they got rid of the JV program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2015, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 23, 2015, 09:42:18 PM
I like Lunt and he does a great job of coaching. However, coaching is only half the battle.  You have to recruit

Recruiting isn't separate from coaching. In fact, it's the most important part of college coaching.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 24, 2015, 02:40:04 AM
Quote from: Keandre on January 23, 2015, 12:48:44 PM
Lunt has evolved and is getting gret results. Their team this year, WILL take down Whitworth!

Keandre, I love that you represent UPS on here. We definitely need a Logger voice. But sometimes it's hard to take you and Blackhawk seriously with these outlandish guarantees that never pan out! UPS is 3-3 which includes a loss to Willamette(!). They still have WM and PLU, which means UPS will likely finish the first half of the slate 4-4. Are those the results you're talking about? I don't doubt UPS could take WW at home in a single game, but to take them down to win the league? Yeah, not so much. Got to hand it to your boys tonight, they fought. That Shattuck kid is a pretty decent shooter, and Whitworth played some tough D against Holden tonight.

I'm going with WW, LC, WM & WIL tomorrow.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 24, 2015, 11:22:31 AM
I would not say that I throw out guarantees, just more of  hopefull statements. It's great to hear ALL about the Eastern Washington teams because they are very good but at times, other NWC teams need to get some love. UPS can be very dangerous and even though we don't know which team will show up, I am always going to choose them. I have seen them play very good ball and not so good ball, but when Barber, Shattuck, and Holden are clicking, they are tough.

I got WW, LC, UPS, Wil tonight
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 24, 2015, 01:25:46 PM
UPS played a nice first half, forcing almost all of Whitworth's 9 turnovers (for the game) in the first 20 minutes. It also helped that Whitworth went 1-9 from 3 in that same half...

Whitworth has the better team and played a better game, don't think it will be any different later this season in Tacoma.

UPS v Whitman should be a good one tonight. I have no earthly idea who will win...anyone who says they do is lying. Which team will show up? For either side? I mean Whitman has to be the favorite playing at home but they've been streakier than the co-eds at the Chapman undie run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 24, 2015, 08:00:09 PM
It is so windy here in SoCal that I am indoors and actually going to tune in to the LINFIELD / WU game at 6 pm and watch as long as I can take it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 24, 2015, 11:01:43 PM
Did I mention I turned to 'Goldmember' on WGN before halftime?

Sheesh, lot of work to do on our program.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 25, 2015, 09:45:21 AM
Whitman handled UPS last night. Both programs are in much different places than they were 5 years ago. One for the worse and one for better

Last night went as expected and has Willamette sitting in 4th. That's COTY stuff if they can make the conference tourney...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 25, 2015, 05:02:25 PM
Mid-NWC season awards? Here are mine:

POTY: Jurlina (best player on the best team)
COTY: Ioane

1st Team:
Howard
Holden
Luedtke
Ovchinnikov
Love

I feel like WM should maybe have a player...but who? Mounier maybe, but I don't think Clough. I could maybe field an argument for Mounier over Ovchinnikov.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 25, 2015, 05:42:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 25, 2015, 09:45:21 AM
Last night went as expected and has Willamette sitting in 4th. That's COTY stuff if they can make the conference tourney...

I'm sorry Rat, but this guy has been at Willamette for 6 years and a 4th place finish is worthy of COTY??? 

Mid-Season Awards (not a bad job, Pinceone)

POTY:  Jurlina--best player on 1st place team
COTY:  It goes to the coach who wins the conference

1st Team:
Holden (UPS)
Howard (GF)
Love (WW)
Martin (WMN)
Luedtke (Will)

Upset Watch:  Keep your eyes on Friday night in Eastern Washington.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 26, 2015, 01:18:32 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 25, 2015, 05:42:46 PM
Upset Watch:  Keep your eyes on Friday night in Eastern Washington.

You really think WIL is going to take down WM  ;D

I agree in some ways with you, Blackhawk, on COTY. If Logie takes this team to a 15-1 or better finish, he should get it. But Kip has turned his program around in the first half of this season--which is why I gave him my mid-season COTY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 26, 2015, 02:39:28 AM
Pinecone,
Why concede 15-1 for WW.  We are still undefeated!!!  I think we may be another 2010 team.  16-0 and win the conference tourney. Why?  Because Logie coaches better than the other coaches.

Sager,

Coaching and recruiting are both important for your program but coaching is far more important than recruiting. The best example is Oregon State's basketball team right now. Craig Robinson recruited far superior talent than what they have right now and couldn't win with it. Wayne tinkle is third in the PAC 12 with a completely decimated roster. The guy that coaches his players up and coaches during the game well will beat a big-time recruiter who doesn't do the coaching as well every time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 26, 2015, 12:55:20 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 26, 2015, 02:39:28 AM
Pinecone,
Why concede 15-1 for WW.  We are still undefeated!!!  I think we may be another 2010 team.  16-0 and win the conference tourney. Why?  Because Logie coaches better than the other coaches.

You see that, A Buc.  It may be subconscious, but everyone knows its coming...

The only thing I'm willing to concede that Logie is better at is throwing a suitcoat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2015, 09:47:38 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 26, 2015, 02:39:28 AMSager,

Coaching and recruiting are both important for your program but coaching is far more important than recruiting.

No. You're missing the point. Recruiting is a part of coaching. Recruiting is every bit as much of an item on a coach's job description as are running practices, breaking down film, drawing up X's and O's, program administration (including supervising assistants), and game management.

You're treating recruiting as if it's in a box over there in the corner, completely separate from coaching. And that's the wrong way to look at it. Recruiting is simply one of several elements within the overall profession of coaching for a college basketball head coach. It's not an isolated and distinct function.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 26, 2015, 11:17:11 PM
This is the dumbest argument I've seen on here in awhile, and that's saying something since blackhawks is a regular poster...

But really Sager is missing the point because when you read A Buc's post you understand that he meant X's and O's and player development are more important than recruiting. I mean it's really, really obvious when you read his OSU example. Agree or disagree with that if you will, but to make some philosophical point because he used the word "coaching" is a waste of my time...we get it, Finkle is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkel...

As for my COTY comment...I was only being somewhat facetious. Look, Ione was picked to finish dead last, with 10 points in the pre-season coaches poll. Basically every other coach in the league said they would finish last and they are sitting here ahead of UPS. Besides the fact that I can't stop laughing at that last statement, it's impressive. Every so often the guy who shatters expectations deserves COTY (see: Sundquist 2013). But I'm totally cool with giving Whitworth every award, every year because lets be honest, they have the best coach, the best players, the best record, etc. year in and year out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2015, 02:42:34 AM
You are both wrong!

Rat:

It may be dumb, but I think you both have it wrong, and I am further from Sager's side, but I get what he is saying.  You are right they are not the same, but recruiting is more important that coaching.  If Coach K (Duke) is at Linfield (not attacking Linfield, just picking the team in last place) right now, he would not win any more games than Rosenberg.  But give him a couple of years of recruiting, and they might be very good and win league.  That is the value of recruiting.  Get the best players, you win more games.  Period.  A bad coach can hurt a team, but a great can't make all-stars out of below average players.  Ask any coach, would he want the best players or be the best coach, I know what he says.  You should have said "because lets be honest, they have the best players, the best players, the best players, etc. year in and year out".

Greg:

I may be nitpicking, but ...  Coaching and recruiting are separate but both the head coach's job and responsibility, and on his job description.  That doesn't make them the same thing, and the coach wears the different hats at different times.  A coach does not recruit during games or practices, and he does not coach when recruiting young men.

A coach does have several individual jobs as part of his job as "Coach", as you mention, and coaching and recruiting are just two of them.  I believe they are distinctly separate, and recruiting is more important, certainly more than checking a box.

Finally, Coach Ione has done a "COTY" job this year (finally), but it is political and will go to the league champion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on January 27, 2015, 12:26:47 PM
Well you have to also factor in that the HC isn't necessarily doing all the recruiting.  Depending on the program, it's often the assistants that are doing 75% of the legwork in the recruiting and the HC is just there to seal the deal at the end.  Coach K isn't spending every day on the road in the offseason tracking down players.  He's got people doing that for him and he gets to concentrate his own time on the select few.  Not all HC jobs are weighted the same when it comes to recruiting responsibilities.  Some coaches have more to do, others have less.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on January 27, 2015, 01:38:48 PM
I know we have former players on this board, but do we have any coaches that have any experience in the recruiting field that can talk about the importance of recruiting, how it is done, and how it is NOT just the head coaches job? Are there any assistant coaches that have any knowledge on this subject? There are many on here that know basketball and have great opinions, just curious to see if anyone has the first hand knowledge of what it takes to be a coach and how recruiting and coaching tie into one another to help build a program to what THAT coach would like it to be. And for the record, it would be nice to always have the best players, but not all of the best players are willing to buy into every system, and its a coaches job to get the best players for their system.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2015, 04:49:56 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 26, 2015, 11:17:11 PM
This is the dumbest argument I've seen on here in awhile, and that's saying something since blackhawks is a regular poster...

But really Sager is missing the point because when you read A Buc's post you understand that he meant X's and O's and player development are more important than recruiting. I mean it's really, really obvious when you read his OSU example.

Of course it's obvious what he meant. Nevertheless, he's wrong.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 26, 2015, 11:17:11 PMAgree or disagree with that if you will, but to make some philosophical point because he used the word "coaching" is a waste of my time

If it's a waste of your time, then don't read the posts. Q.E.D.

Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2015, 02:42:34 AM
Greg:

I may be nitpicking, but ...  Coaching and recruiting are separate but both the head coach's job and responsibility, and on his job description.  That doesn't make them the same thing, and the coach wears the different hats at different times.  A coach does not recruit during games or practices, and he does not coach when recruiting young men.

A coach does have several individual jobs as part of his job as "Coach", as you mention, and coaching and recruiting are just two of them.  I believe they are distinctly separate, and recruiting is more important, certainly more than checking a box.

"Coach" is both a noun and a verb, TMT. What does a coach do? He coaches. If recruiting was separate from coaching, he'd have the title "Head Coach / Head Recruiter" on his office door. He doesn't, because recruiting is part of coaching.

Everything that he does within his capacity as the coach -- recruiting, game prep, running practices, administration, game management -- falls under the rubric of coaching. Saying that he isn't coaching when he's out recruiting is like saying that a teacher isn't teaching when he/she is grading papers at home, or that a cook isn't cooking when he/she is chopping up the vegetables. Or, to use another analogy, saying that a coach isn't coaching when the public can't see what he's doing -- since it appears that you guys seem to equate "coaching" with game management -- is like saying that an iceberg only consists of the one-tenth that you can see, while the other nine-tenths of the floating formation of frozen water is something other than an iceberg.

Coaching and recruiting are not separate. Recruiting is a part of coaching. To say that one part of what a coach does for a living is "coaching" and another part isn't is not only arbitrary, it makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 27, 2015, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2015, 04:49:56 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on January 27, 2015, 02:42:34 AM
Greg:

I may be nitpicking, but ...  Coaching and recruiting are separate but both the head coach's job and responsibility, and on his job description.  That doesn't make them the same thing, and the coach wears the different hats at different times.  A coach does not recruit during games or practices, and he does not coach when recruiting young men.

A coach does have several individual jobs as part of his job as "Coach", as you mention, and coaching and recruiting are just two of them.  I believe they are distinctly separate, and recruiting is more important, certainly more than checking a box.

"Coach" is both a noun and a verb, TMT. What does a coach do? He coaches. If recruiting was separate from coaching, he'd have the title "Head Coach / Head Recruiter" on his office door. He doesn't, because recruiting is part of coaching.

Everything that he does within his capacity as the coach -- recruiting, game prep, running practices, administration, game management -- falls under the rubric of coaching. Saying that he isn't coaching when he's out recruiting is like saying that a teacher isn't teaching when he/she is grading papers at home, or that a cook isn't cooking when he/she is chopping up the vegetables. Or, to use another analogy, saying that a coach isn't coaching when the public can't see what he's doing -- since it appears that you guys seem to equate "coaching" with game management -- is like saying that an iceberg only consists of the one-tenth that you can see, while the other nine-tenths of the floating formation of frozen water is something other than an iceberg.

Coaching and recruiting are not separate. Recruiting is a part of coaching. To say that one part of what a coach does for a living is "coaching" and another part isn't is not only arbitrary, it makes no sense at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0&spfreload=10

Coaches have to recruit to be successful. Coaches have to teach to be successful. Recruiting isn't coaching, but coaching involves recruiting. You're both right. Let's move on.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 27, 2015, 06:51:47 PM
Pinecone gets a +1 for that link.

What I do care about is WW being half way into the league season and being undefeated.  Given that the greatest moment in the Whitman athletic history was beating the 2011 Whitworth team, The Bucs are going to have to get ready for that game in Walla Walla. I am betting we don't slip up again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 27, 2015, 08:14:00 PM
This is a fun read for Whitworth fans...well once you get over the fact that Tyler Harvey was headed to Spokane and not Cheney before Hayford left  :'(

The Eastern Washington Eagles are your new favorite team, you just don't know it yet (http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/1/27/7922505/eastern-washington-basketball-2014-15-ncaa-tournament-tyler-harvey)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 27, 2015, 09:04:33 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 27, 2015, 08:14:00 PM
This is a fun read for Whitworth fans...well once you get over the fact that Tyler Harvey was headed to Spokane and not Cheney before Hayford left  :'(

The Eastern Washington Eagles are your new favorite team, you just don't know it yet (http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/1/27/7922505/eastern-washington-basketball-2014-15-ncaa-tournament-tyler-harvey)


Not to mention that Eastern's other wing, Parker Kelly was also headed to WW when Hayford took the job at Eastern.  That's a scary D3 backcourt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 28, 2015, 10:38:25 AM
Switching topics:  How do you rank the coaching jobs in the NWC?  WW is obviously the best job in conference.  Linfield 2nd?  3rd?  What's the worst job in the conference?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 28, 2015, 02:02:27 PM
Whitman's greatest athletic achievement was knocking LINFIELD out of the NWC crown 9-18 in 1973 and they soon dropped football.

If I was a coach at the DIII level I'd be shaking the hand of every kid I saw with a letterman's jacket that had a basketball on the letter. I'd know where the summer camps are and go shake the owner's hand. Of course, I'd run my own. Recruiting is a lifestyle.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 28, 2015, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 27, 2015, 09:04:33 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 27, 2015, 08:14:00 PM
This is a fun read for Whitworth fans...well once you get over the fact that Tyler Harvey was headed to Spokane and not Cheney before Hayford left  :'(

The Eastern Washington Eagles are your new favorite team, you just don't know it yet (http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/1/27/7922505/eastern-washington-basketball-2014-15-ncaa-tournament-tyler-harvey)


Not to mention that Eastern's other wing, Parker Kelly was also headed to WW when Hayford took the job at Eastern.  That's a scary D3 backcourt.

And this is why I'm convinced if Hayford was still at WW, we would have a National Championship banner in the Fieldhouse.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 28, 2015, 10:38:25 AM
Switching topics:  How do you rank the coaching jobs in the NWC?  WW is obviously the best job in conference.  Linfield 2nd?  3rd?  What's the worst job in the conference?

I think for tradition and crowd support Whitworth is undoubtedly #1. However, Whitworth has a few things against it: some of my friends who played at other NWC schools called the Fieldhouse the "airplane hangar," so that's a downside; Whitworth, academically speaking, is roughly middle of the pack in the NWC (behind WM & LC, but ahead of others); it's a Christian school, so that automatically hurts with some players; and, for better or worse, it's in Spokane.

I like Portland better, I like UPS and Whitman's gyms better, WM and LC are better schools, PLU and WM give the most financial aid money...so I think it's fairly even between those schools.

I guess I'd rank right this second like this:
1) WW
2) WM
3) UPS (love this school)
4) LC (beautiful Portland campus)
5) WIL (love the gym and campus)
6) PLU (Parkland sucks but they give financial aid like it's on trees)
7) PAC (Forest Grove?)
8) GF (women's hoops this is probably #1, but all the students leave after the women's games)
9) LIN (football is king)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 28, 2015, 09:33:28 PM
WW is so dominant in sports right now for one reason:  Bill Robinson.  The former president is passionate about sports. He recognized how sports can help build up a university and used sports to help transform WW. Bill's transformation of WW, sports, academics, culture, was absolutely amazing.  So the best job depends on who is running the university and what their commitment to athletics is. I don't think Beck Taylor is Bill Robinson, but he seems dedicated enough to keep the ball rolling.  I assume Linfield will always have a supportive president--great facility, etc. However, maybe Playball is right, basketball is excluded from the support the other sports at Linfield get.  Beyond those two schools, it depends on the mood of the president as to how attractive the head basketball job is.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2015, 12:48:59 AM
If I were applying today, to the program/University in it's current state...

1. Whitworth - Recent dominance, one of if not the most supportive administration in the NWC (includes getting in players who wouldn't qualify based on academics), big (largest?) basketball budget in the NWC, best gameday atmosphere in the conference
2. UPS - best recruiting backyard (Sea/Tac), also have an admin that is very supportive of athletics (other than football they do really well in other sports), top tier in the conference academically, unfortunately they are also top tier in terms of cost
3. Whitman - Recently they've got the most supportive admin and alumni, great gameday atmosphere as students have nothing else to do and nothing besides a good tennis program to cheer for, Higher end of the conference in terms of tuition and living in Walla Walla are negatives. Weird student body too, probably off putting to some recruits
4. L&C - Another school with great academics but high cost and a campus full of weirdos. Portland and the campus should be enough to jump them ahead of Whitman...you can never trust that administration though...
5. Willamette - An older history of winning but its history nonetheless, some of the best academics but higher tuition comes with it, a student body that is generally supportive of athletics (when the games are on campus, heaven forbid they drive 20-30 miles up the road for a game though)
6. Linfield - easiest school to get into in the conference and nice facilities, you get a sense that athletics are a big part of the University in terms of campus life/attitude but the AD and football alumni will hate you apparently. Not worth the battle when it wouldn't be an issue in most of the conference
7. PLU - They have the lowest tuition in the conference so I'm not sure if they actually give out a lot more money than anyone else but it doesn't matter, they are cheap (relatively speaking), Parkland sucks but you have a relatively supportive administration and have a lot of good basketball players a short ride from your campus. They haven't won a conference championship in almost 30 years though so there is something working against you as a coach.
8. George Fox - they've had some good teams in other sports which I don't understand because you could never convince me to go to that school for 4 years
9. Pacific - actually has the highest tuition, no history/tradition of winning, Forest Grove is not close enough to Portland to be worth it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2015, 12:58:39 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 28, 2015, 09:33:28 PM
...Playball is right...

Awe shucks!  Thanks Buc!  That's the best thing I've read on here besides Rat calling me a Sasquatch!

From my point of view as an outsider but with knowledge of the WW program, Hayford was an amazing recruiter, fundraiser, and game time coach.  I've also heard that the practice coaching load was mainly handled by assistants, and Buc let me know if I'm wrong on that or what David thinks.

Can someone explain how a team scores 38 points in a 40 minute game without point shaving being brought up?!  Just kidding, I know these kids are playing hard but damn! Tough to see.hopefully this season serves as motivation this off season!

WW will drop one resting some of its guys late in the season.

WM can get worse, we saw worse from them for years!  FWIW, that university has really infused it's sports with adequate funding.  It's nice to see that happen in the conference.  Amazing what a little bit of cash can do, right Doc?

Linf might steal one from someone, but it's a long shot.


Question for everyone on the board.  What do you feel your team does that other teams do not do in order to achieve success?  I'm curious to hear where this goes
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2015, 01:01:58 AM
Rat, spot on list!  GFU should be at the bottom just for the fact that they fired Sundquist who was reigning COTY!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2015, 10:41:09 AM
In fear of this turning into a lovefest, this is the last nice thing I'll say all year--Rat, that was solid.

My two cents:

WW is an obvious one.

My #2 is Linfield--for all the points that Rat brought up.  The football argument in nonsensical to me and I don't buy it.  I've never been around an athlete worth his salt who avoided a school with a good football program. In fact, when looking for a school, i think having more jocks around would be a huge attraction.

I'm with UPS at 3

I have a feeling that convincing a kid to come to Walla Walla for 4 years is a little tougher sell than we're giving it credit for on this board.  I put them in the next group with Willamette, the LC hippies and GF. 

Pacific and PLU are the toughest jobs in the conference.  I would think a place like PLU would just try to reload with JC players year after year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 29, 2015, 11:10:51 AM
Quote9) LIN (football is king)

And National Championships in softball and baseball are chopped liver.

Bells! Geo Fox has two National Championships to Whitworth's how many?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on January 29, 2015, 12:22:39 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2015, 10:41:09 AM
My #2 is Linfield--for all the points that Rat brought up.  The football argument in nonsensical to me and I don't buy it.  I've never been around an athlete worth his salt who avoided a school with a good football program. In fact, when looking for a school, i think having more jocks around would be a huge attraction.

My niece plays a sport at Linfield and has talked about being a 2nd class citizen when it comes to football vs everyone else.  For example, when she was hurt last year she couldn't get any assistance by the training staff who told her to go away, that they only had time for the football players.  She ended up having to do her entire rehab stint herself off campus and going home on weekends to get her PT uncle to take care of it. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2015, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on January 29, 2015, 11:10:51 AM
Quote9) LIN (football is king)

And National Championships in softball and baseball are chopped liver.

Bells! Geo Fox has two National Championships to Whitworth's how many?

Softball: football assistant is the head coach. (Who, if you didn't know, divorced his wife to marry a former player.  Not claiming indiscretion, but are you serious?)

Baseball: Carnahan is the AD and gets funding regardless.  What is he going to do, not feed himself?

Also, there have been moments in time when the football boosters have influenced linfield athletic department decisions regarding other sports by threatening to pull donations.  Rat was on it.  I wouldn't touch Linfields head coaching job unless there was an AD who had zero ties to Linfield.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 29, 2015, 12:25:56 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on January 29, 2015, 12:22:39 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2015, 10:41:09 AM
My #2 is Linfield--for all the points that Rat brought up.  The football argument in nonsensical to me and I don't buy it.  I've never been around an athlete worth his salt who avoided a school with a good football program. In fact, when looking for a school, i think having more jocks around would be a huge attraction.

My niece plays a sport at Linfield and has talked about being a 2nd class citizen when it comes to football vs everyone else.  For example, when she was hurt last year she couldn't get any assistance by the training staff who told her to go away, that they only had time for the football players.  She ended up having to do her entire rehab stint herself off campus and going home on weekends to get her PT uncle to take care of it.

Totally believe it.  I had an inflamed disc in my back my sophomore or junior seasons.  I was told to deal with it and sent away.  It was a game day even! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2015, 12:59:12 PM
HUGE games tonight in Eastern Washington.  If WMN wants to make a run at the crown, A) they need help (out of their control), and B) what they can control starts tonight.  They have to take care of business against LC at home.  If they drop another one, it's 2nd place...again.  They get their shot playing host to WW on Tuesday.

On the WW front, Willamette tonight, WMN Tuesday, and @ UPS are the only conceivable L's left on their schedule.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on January 31, 2015, 09:53:53 PM
During the first half I heard the George Fox announcer refer to "arch-rival Linfield." Who knew?
;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 31, 2015, 10:53:03 PM
Go 'Cats. Congrats to the guys on getting their 1st NWC win of the year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on January 31, 2015, 11:06:14 PM
Amen to that!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2015, 11:09:57 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 08, 2015, 01:36:40 AM
Honestly, I don't think WW has a prayer in Walla Walla.   

It's time.  Now is the time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on February 01, 2015, 12:19:46 AM
I have always felt that the Linfield job is one of the best in the conference. What coach wouldn't want to be at a place where the expectations for the football and baseball teams are conference championships at a minimum and deep runs in the playoffs. That should fuel the competitiveness of everyone associated with the basketball program.  Linfield has a good location near Portland-ish, is cost competitive with the other schools, the admissions department works well with the coaches to get students enrolled, and the facilities are pretty nice. A coach needs to play more roles at Linfield with teaching and faculty responsibilities and he needs to fundraise for his program.

Whitworth seems to be a good job
Lewis and Clark would seem to be the worst with the student body, tough academics, and admissions..
Whitman in Walla Walla can be a great situation if the administration supports sports which wasn't the case when I was growing up there.  Students don't pay any attention to the town after the first year.. They refer to it as the "Whitman Bubble" where Whitties have almost zero contact with the townies.  Whitman has a huge endowment and with today's screaming need for diversity seems to be able to attract and retain some players that otherwise wouldn't consider living in Wsquared.

There really wouldn't be a bad job in the conference if the admissions staff got along with the athletic department and programs were funded to the necessary level. Each school can attract student athletes on their own merits.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on February 01, 2015, 12:23:56 AM
Was at the Fox game today and spoke briefly with Batiuk.. Sounds like his ankle problems might be career ending... Big time bummer for him.. He had such a promising start to his career... Great to see the W... I'm impressed by the effort and intensity displayed by the Cats... We need to get quicker at the 1-2-3...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 01, 2015, 12:35:58 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2015, 12:59:12 PM
HUGE games tonight in Eastern Washington.  If WMN wants to make a run at the crown, A) they need help (out of their control), and B) what they can control starts tonight.  They have to take care of business against LC at home.  If they drop another one, it's 2nd place...again.  They get their shot playing host to WW on Tuesday.

On the WW front, Willamette tonight, WMN Tuesday, and @ UPS are the only conceivable L's left on their schedule.

I don't think WW will lose two games. The regular season crown is probably theirs. However, it is the league tourney crown that matters.  Doubt our conference gets two spots in the ncaa tourney.

Congrats to LF on a win. Sad news for Batiuk. I am still worried about LF's program. If you don't have athletes capable of playing at the 1, 2 and 3 your second year in at this level you can't recruit or assess talent properly.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 01, 2015, 02:40:17 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 01, 2015, 12:35:58 PM
I don't think WW will lose two games.

"I don't think WW will lose two games."...Two games.

Sorry A Buc, but you're as guilty as Rat. You know what's coming too. Let's talk Tuesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 02, 2015, 01:43:28 AM
YESSSSS!  We beat Fox.  This tough season now has a redeeming quality. 

Side note:  George Fox calls Linfield, Sinfield.  Aren't they so clever!?  ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 04, 2015, 01:35:15 AM
LF wins, WSU beats Stanford and WW loses within a week of each other.  Start looking for some flying pigs.  Blackhawks, I'm happy for you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 04, 2015, 07:47:25 AM
Yeah glad I didn't stay up to watch that one. It's what our friends over in collegeville, MN would call a monkey stomp... :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 04, 2015, 11:52:01 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 04, 2015, 01:35:15 AM
LF wins, WSU beats Stanford and WW loses within a week of each other.  Start looking for some flying pigs.  Blackhawks, I'm happy for you.

Nobody's going to toot it for me, but those predictions, 1) Linfield win, check. 2) WMN blowout of WW, check. 3) two 15-1 seasons (appears to be headed for 15-1 and 14-2--so not exactly, but not bad). 

Look, I'd rather downplay the WMN win last night as just taking care of business as usual, but it was a huge win for one simple reason:  WMN had to prove to themselves that they're a better team than WW.  I think when you're playing WW, you're playing WHITWORTH (kinda like when one stepped in the ring with Mike Tyson--it was was MIKE TYSON).  This was a big win--and to do it in 24 point, blowout fashion was important.

Looking forward, UPS is the only team that has a shot against WW.  That game is 40/60 to me.  Assuming WW holds on, it means another regular season title for WW, and the road goes through Spokane. 

BUT, WMN has a lot to play for, a 20 win season, and a chance at their first NCAA tourney birth.  How many years has it been for either???  Over the past 5 games, there have been stretches where WMN has looked downright dominant on the defensive end.  They've got 2 players coming back from injury (including all nwc player tochi oti), so they have to keep their chemistry fluid as these guys get integrated back into the line-up--this hurt them last year.  If they want to beat WW in Spokane, they have to keep getting better each week.  WMN is a better team this year than WW, but WW is going to play a much better game in Spokane than they did last night. 
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2015, 08:57:36 PM
NWC action tonight

Willamette v GF
UPS v Pacific
L&C v PLU
Whitman v Lin

All the teams on the left should win. Straight chalk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2015, 01:37:55 PM
UPS and L&C blew it last night. Pacific is sitting in 4th now and Puget Sound still has a very real shot of missing the playoffs

With Whitman's loss to Pacific earlier this season they have to hope Whitworth loses 2 more or drops one to UPS and the Loggers move head of Pacific if they want to finish on top of the regular season standings. 

Linfield's guard play is just atrocious, would be very surprised if the game with Whitworth is close tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 07, 2015, 01:43:02 PM
Nwcsports.com has pacific at third.   I don't think they will hold that spot and believe they are swinging higher than they are at.  PLU was classic at that for the first half of the season in years past just to falter in the second.  Interesting year in the NWC!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2015, 02:41:06 PM
It actually shows them at fourth. They are technically tied for 3rd with L&C but until they play tonight L&C would hold the tie breaker.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 07, 2015, 02:49:57 PM
Does Linfield have the most adorable introduction in the NWC, or what?  All 20 players hold hands and when the starters name is called they step forward and put their hands up.  Its very cute.  At least they've got that going for them.

Something has clicked in Walla Walla and their defense is SUFFOCATING.  This team is getting stronger each game.

What is the tiebreaker?   





Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2015, 03:37:22 PM
Head to head, then record against next best team. And it just keeps going down the standings until someone has a better record against the common opponent.

So if the Whits were tied and the season ended today they would look at their record against L&C. Both went 2-0 against the Pios. So they go to Pacific, where Whitworth would be 1-0 and Whitman 0-1. Whitworth gets the tiebreaker.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 07, 2015, 05:44:33 PM
That tie breaker format is ridiculous--its backwards.  That means if Linfield knocks WW off tonight, WW would have the tiebreaker because they lost to the worst team in the league instead of Pacific??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 07, 2015, 10:04:20 PM
Linfield leads Whitworth at the half? Alert the South Forty!

Seriously, whatever happens in the second half, that appears to be progress.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2015, 03:24:17 PM
Current Streaks for WW:
Five straight regular season conference championships.
Eight straight conference tournament championships.

Just like to remind everyone where we are at. ;D

Will it be number 6?  I'm betting that will happen.
Number 9?  Toughest road yet.  When WW beat UPS in the conference championship game in 2009 after losing the regular season championship, that was a great win against a great team. I don't think this WM team is as good as that UPS team, but it looks like WM is really getting it together at this point.

Time for Whitworth to start peaking as they head into the playoffs.  Finishing off the regular season as the top seed will be key to winning the conference tournament. Home court is a huge advantage.   I'm worried about how they will do against WM even on their own court, having to beat WM in Walla Walla might be expecting too much. Should be a great conference tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2015, 02:54:56 PM
Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 11, 2015, 07:29:27 PM
Glad to see Whitworth was able to crack the regional rankings.  Looks like they came in right behind Whitman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2015, 12:40:37 AM
It is an absolute pleasure watching Whitman play.  A 180 from where they were at the beginning of conference, when they were unbearable to watch.  This is the team that took St. Thomas on for 40 minutes.  They are back to making the extra pass, its nice to have Tochi Oti back, and their defense is on another level.  They're a sweet 16 caliber team right now.

Pacific played a hell of a game tonight too.  The Boxers are dangerous.  Had they not played as well as they have, this is a 30-40 point blowout instead of 17 which it is now.

Pacific might get WW tomorrow.  BTW, D3Hoops--can we get Whitworth out of the Top 25?? St. Thomas blows them out by 21, Rutgers-Newark beats them in Spokane, and Whitman trounces them by 24.  They are not a national level team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 14, 2015, 08:17:00 PM
Whitman would probably be ranked if they hadn't lost to Pacific. None of the ranking stuff matters though. Win in Spokane and you're in. That should be the NWC's new motto when it comes to men's basketball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2015, 11:27:45 PM
Whitworth decided to put their big boy pants on.  Feb 28th.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 16, 2015, 12:04:22 PM
Nothing much to say about the Whits until the playoffs. The big story is willamette. Assuming UPS loses both in Eastern Washington (safe assumption) then a win against Linfield (safe assumption) gets willamette in the playoffs.  Nice to see them back in the hunt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 16, 2015, 03:04:14 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 16, 2015, 12:04:22 PM
Assuming UPS loses both in Eastern Washington (safe assumption)

Buc, the Whits will be traveling to UPS this weekend. Not something I would consider easy for either team. I'm just hoping the Bucs don't look past PLU Friday--I don't think Logie will let them do that. I also hope WM tires UPS out (and still loses ;D) Friday night.

Also, on a random note, it looks like the GF SID put on the NWC master schedule that the Bruins are playing in the NCAA tournament. Who wants to break the news to him?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2015, 08:34:57 PM
Buc, not sure you have that right.  If UPS is swept, Wil splits and PacU sweeps, UPS will be 7-9, Wil 8-8 and PacU 8-8.  I think it will be PacU based on their Whitman victory.  Am I missing something?  Should make for a good Wil-PacU game in Salem.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2015, 01:21:55 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2015, 12:40:37 AM
It is an absolute pleasure watching Whitman play.  A 180 from where they were at the beginning of conference, when they were unbearable to watch.  This is the team that took St. Thomas on for 40 minutes.  They are back to making the extra pass, its nice to have Tochi Oti back, and their defense is on another level.  They're a sweet 16 caliber team right now.

Pacific played a hell of a game tonight too.  The Boxers are dangerous.  Had they not played as well as they have, this is a 30-40 point blowout instead of 17 which it is now.

Pacific might get WW tomorrow.  BTW, D3Hoops--can we get Whitworth out of the Top 25?? St. Thomas blows them out by 21, Rutgers-Newark beats them in Spokane, and Whitman trounces them by 24.  They are not a national level team.

We know better than to be surprised when Whitman beats Whitworth at Whitman, and a loss from three months ago doesn't hold as much weight as you might want it to.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2015, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 16, 2015, 08:34:57 PM
Buc, not sure you have that right.  If UPS is swept, Wil splits and PacU sweeps, UPS will be 7-9, Wil 8-8 and PacU 8-8.  I think it will be PacU based on their Whitman victory.  Am I missing something?  Should make for a good Wil-PacU game in Salem.


We were both right. You were correct until Pac lost to GF. I knew that was going to happen. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2015, 01:28:04 PM
Playball,

We are mirror images of each other:

Whitworth 20-3
Linfield 3-20
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 18, 2015, 04:36:33 PM
Buc, What?  Pac beat GF last night.  So, the scenario is this.  UPS needs to win 1 of this weekend's games against the Whits.  Win either and they are the 4th seed.  If not, and if Will beats Linf, the game against Pac U and Will on Saturday in Salem is for the 4th seed.  It would be nice for one of these 2 teams to make the playoffs.  Long drought for both of them.  But both need some help from the Whits.

What again?  I am trying to figure out if you are throwing salt in Playball's wounds or just a thousand paper cuts!  Nothing like a fan of a perennial winner "kidding" a struggling program.  Very funny, not! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2015, 10:40:28 PM
Lemme get this straight:

If WMN & WW both win out, WW is champ.

If WMN wins out; and WW drops one to UPS (playing for a playoff spot, in Tacoma, on senior night), WMN is champ?!

(Famous last words) but there is no way these teams drop one @ PLU...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 19, 2015, 03:55:18 PM
-Sorry about my early post that GF beat Pac--I saw the women's score.

-TryMeTeam--Playball can take a little ribbing and anyone from LF better be able to handle some teasing from arrogant fans from other teams.  We've been taking it from arrogant fans/players/coaches from LF for years.  Although, when LF was great in basketball, the players had such funny haircuts because of Wilson's rules we could at least laugh at Mark Wickman about his hair as he dunked on us.

-blackhawks4--You have it right if Rat is correct, "Head to head, then record against next best team. And it just keeps going down the standings until someone has a better record against the common opponent." If WW loses to either game this weekend it may be time to crank some R.E.M. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2UhvN0k74w




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 21, 2015, 01:12:28 AM
Go 'Cats!!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 21, 2015, 01:20:41 AM
Nicely done, Wildcats - nicely done. If you could pick any one home game to win, you could do a lot worse than that one.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2015, 02:22:26 AM
Willamette wins and they're in. If WW wins they claim first. If Pac wins and UPS loses, Pac is in. That's easy.

This is where it gets tough...any help??

A) If UPS beats WW, WMN wins, and Willamette wins, WMN wins conference right?? Will owns tiebreaker over UPS, who finishes above Pacific

B) If UPS beats WW, WMN wins, and Pacific wins, UPS and PAC are 8-8, and WMN and WW are 14-2. Who is first and who is 4th?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 21, 2015, 04:27:35 AM
I guess no one wants that 4th spot. Someone will get it tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on February 21, 2015, 05:42:10 PM
A.    WW - WM tie breaker:  They split, they both swept LC, and they both swept Will.  WW will have lost to UPS  and WM swept, so WM would be 1st, WW 2nd, LC 3rd, and WIL (if they win) 4th because they beat UPS twice.

B.   If UPS wins and Pac wins, UPS gets the 4th spot because they beat WW and Pac did not. 

So,if WM wins and:
UPS wins, Will wins, Will is in (4th).
UPS wins, Pac wins, UPS is in (4th).
UPS loses, Pac vs Will for 4th spot.

My guess is Pac.

The 4th spot in not very attractive, but one of these years, .....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 21, 2015, 06:18:47 PM
Quote from: TryMeTeam on February 21, 2015, 05:42:10 PM
A.    WW - WM tie breaker:  They split, they both swept LC, and they both swept Will.  WW will have lost to UPS  and WM swept, so WM would be 1st, WW 2nd, LC 3rd, and WIL (if they win) 4th because they beat UPS twice.

Correct me if I'm wrong--and I might be--but let's say WW loses tonight and WM wins. They would both be at 14-2 and would be co-NWC champs. But based on the tiebreakers, WM would get the home court for the playoffs. Is that correct? I think WW has clinched at least a share of the title.

Congrats to LF last night!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2015, 11:29:31 PM
GUTSY win by Whitman tonight after trailing most of the game.  When it comes to the playoffs, its all about your guards--and Whitman's DELIVERED tonight.  Whitman was down 2 with 3 seconds left, and Tochi Oti steps up to the Free Throw line and knocks two down to force OT.  And what can be said about Matt Mournier...except he's flat out making some big time shots.

Hats off to PLU tonight.  They 1) handled the Whitman pressure, and 2) did a nice job cutting off the rim.  They played a good game.

Hats off to Whitworth.  They are so darn consistent.  15-1...again.  In the past several years they have rarely lost a game they should have won.

Playoff table is set.  Road goes through Spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2015, 11:47:59 PM
There is such a discrepancy in talent in the NWC this year, WW and WMN deserve two 1st teamers.

POTY:  Kenny Love
Mournier
Jackson Clough
Jurlina

Last two spots (your choice, but i'd go 1st two):  Holden, Ovchinnikov, Luedtke
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2015, 02:51:28 AM
Buc, rib as you will but at least I can point to something ridiculous that you thought would fly.  Civil war weekend and you wanted to see the game but we were scheduled at home against you guys.  "Well, we can get Gill coliseum if you wanted to reschedule."  Yes, Buc, we would love to reschedule our home game to a neutral site to appease the Rileys.  Makes sense! 

But yes, Linfield blows.  WW are perennial champs.  Congrats, you win. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 22, 2015, 05:03:49 AM
Can I quote myself from earlier in the year?

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on November 07, 2014, 02:53:43 AM
I'm actually a little afraid of Whitman this year. They usually bring their A game for Whitworth, but then have those slip ups (loss @ Pacific last year) along the way. If they can figure those out, they could pose a real threat to Whitworth's dominance.

That one slip up cost WM a split title. And that's the biggest reason why WW has won 6 straight: WM might have as much talent as WW, but only WW takes care of business vs. lesser teams. WM always has that crap the bed game (and almost 2 this year--lucky to escape PLU with a W tonight).

"I couldn't be prouder of our two seniors for helping this group mature and for withstanding the target that comes with playing for Whitworth University.  This program is bigger than any of us involved individually and it's just a special, special thing to be a part of." -Logie after tonight...love how he's embraced the hoops tradition.

And if I can steal from Tennessee: "It's great...to be...a Whitworth Pirate!" 6 straight! Congrats to the coaching staff and the team. It's tourney time!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 22, 2015, 05:09:07 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2015, 11:47:59 PM
There is such a discrepancy in talent in the NWC this year, WW and WMN deserve two 1st teamers.

POTY:  Kenny Love
Mournier
Jackson Clough
Jurlina

Last two spots (your choice, but i'd go 1st two):  Holden, Ovchinnikov, Luedtke

Agree, Blackhawk.

Here's my All-NWC

POTY: K-Love
COTY: Logie or Kip (close one...one went 15-1 in NWC, the other took a cellar dweller to the playoffs)

1st Team: Jurlina, Mournier, Clough, Holden, Luedtke
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2015, 06:23:22 AM
WW gets the title by not slipping up. The key to championships.

Winning the next two games is going to tough. Should be a fun league tournament. The Whits a both playing well right now. Nice to see Willamette back in the top part of the league. LC does not get much love on this board. Congrats to them for a great league season.

Playball, I was just trying to help get some LF fans at the game. All of your LF fans must of been at the Civil War game and tailgating afterwards. There were more Whitworth fans than LF fans at the basketball game that night.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2015, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2015, 06:23:22 AM
WW gets the title by not slipping up. The key to championships.

Winning the next two games is going to tough. Should be a fun league tournament. The Whits a both playing well right now. Nice to see Willamette back in the top part of the league. LC does not get much love on this board. Congrats to them for a great league season.

Playball, I was just trying to help get some LF fans at the game. All of your LF fans must of been at the Civil War game and tailgating afterwards. There were more Whitworth fans than LF fans at the basketball game that night.


Haha!  Touché!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 22, 2015, 01:52:30 PM
Fun fact: Linfield didn't have a player average 10 ppg this year.  First time in program history.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 22, 2015, 03:23:08 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 22, 2015, 05:03:49 AM
That one slip up cost WM a split title. And that's the biggest reason why WW has won 6 straight: WM might have as much talent as WW, but only WW takes care of business vs. lesser teams. WM always has that crap the bed game (and almost 2 this year--lucky to escape PLU with a W tonight).

"I couldn't be prouder of our two seniors for helping this group mature and for withstanding the target that comes with playing for Whitworth University.  This program is bigger than any of us involved individually and it's just a special, special thing to be a part of." -Logie after tonight...love how he's embraced the hoops tradition.

And if I can steal from Tennessee: "It's great...to be...a Whitworth Pirate!" 6 straight! Congrats to the coaching staff and the team. It's tourney time!

This is your problem, Pinecone.  You're not special.  There is nothing about Whitworth hoops that is special (period).  Your consistent and you're good.  But you're not special, you're not anything more than good--nor do you care to be.  You celebrate accomplishing the same goal every year.  For the past (however many) years your program has been stuck in the mud.  In fact, by everyone on this boards accords, you're worse than you were in years prior.  You're going backwards.  Why aren't you better?

In 7 years Whitman has gone from the very worst program in the NWC to 20-5, 14-2 in league (hardly "crapping the bed" as you so eloquently say).   If WMN can be 15 games better in 5 years, why can't Whitworth just be 1 game better in 5 years? Even when Bridge was at UPS it was conference win, next year sweet 16, next year elite 8...always getting better.

If WMN takes down WW in the conference tourney finals, and WW is sitting at home while WMN represents the conference, how will that feel?  That you've made no progress in all these years and Whitman has gone from worst to best.  What's going to happen next year, and the year after as WMN keeps building and WW keeps maintaining?


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 22, 2015, 09:54:17 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 22, 2015, 03:23:08 PM
This is your problem, Pinecone.  You're not special.  There is nothing about Whitworth hoops that is special (period).  Your consistent and you're good.  But you're not special, you're not anything more than good--nor do you care to be.  You celebrate accomplishing the same goal every year.  For the past (however many) years your program has been stuck in the mud.  In fact, by everyone on this boards accords, you're worse than you were in years prior.  You're going backwards.  Why aren't you better?

I mean...I don't even know where to begin. Every other school in our conference would trade with us in a heartbeat--from the tradition (remember how we've won 6 straight regular season titles and 8 straight conference tournaments?), to the best crowd in the conference, to the best X's and O's coach in the conference. Who wouldn't trade with us right now? We do celebrate the same goal every year: winning the NWC. I'm cool with that. Would I love to get to a Final Four? Absolutely! If you don't think Whitworth wants to do that, you're crazy.

Lost a heartbreaker in the 2nd round last year, we've been to the E8, a couple S16's. For a PNW island school, I'm fine with that. We aren't a Wisconsin state school with 11k undergrads, cheaper prices and an 80+% acceptance rate (*cough* Whitewater *cough*  :)). We're all in the same boat here in the PNW. We are small schools that are expensive, academically prestigious, and it's tough to get kids from Cali up here. The NWC is pretty dependent on PNW kids, but WW's two best players are from Australia and California. If you can't get some kids outside the PNW to come to the northwest, it's tough to win.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 22, 2015, 03:23:08 PM
In 7 years Whitman has gone from the very worst program in the NWC to 20-5, 14-2 in league (hardly "crapping the bed" as you so eloquently say).   If WMN can be 15 games better in 5 years, why can't Whitworth just be 1 game better in 5 years? Even when Bridge was at UPS it was conference win, next year sweet 16, next year elite 8...always getting better.

When you're at the bottom, there's nowhere to go but up...

And I'm not saying the WM program is crap, they just always have "that game" where they crap the bed. Pacific this year and last year, for example. WW hasn't lost to Pacific in...? You're right, Whitworth should be 15 games better just like WM in that time! Not sure why we aren't winning 40 games a year. #FireLogie

Shouldn't you be more mad at Bridge? He hasn't won the NWC with WM yet in, what, like 6 years?! He got a huge donor to donate a lot of money a couple years ago and still can't jump the WW hurdle. Why aren't you more mad at him? Why are you so worried about WW's success? We went 15-1 this year. You worry about your program in Walla Walla, we're cool up here with our 6 straight.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 22, 2015, 03:23:08 PM
If WMN takes down WW in the conference tourney finals, and WW is sitting at home while WMN represents the conference, how will that feel?  That you've made no progress in all these years and Whitman has gone from worst to best.  What's going to happen next year, and the year after as WMN keeps building and WW keeps maintaining?

That would suck, but WM is good too. You talk as if WW gives WM no respect. We do. You're good under Bridge, but so are we under Logie! If WM can beat WW at WW, they deserve it. No doubt. Bridge has been at WM longer than Logie at WW, and what does he have to show for it? A bunch of 2nd place trophies. Cool. I'll take Logie and 6 straight, thank you.

Did I mention 6 straight?  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2015, 10:02:22 PM
Ah, another bhawks post that made us all dumber for having read...

QuoteIn 7 years Whitman has gone from the very worst program in the NWC to 20-5, 14-2 in league (hardly "crapping the bed" as you so eloquently say)

Actually, he said "WM always has that crap the bed game." Game is singular. ie Pacific. Which is 100% true.

QuoteIf WMN can be 15 games better in 5 years, why can't Whitworth just be 1 game better in 5 years?

Here's WMN last 5 years in conference play...
14-2
11-5
12-4
11-5
11-5

Hardly "always getting better." Why is it that Whitman can be stagnant for such a long period of time, and even take a step back in 2013-2014, but nobody else can?

QuoteEven when Bridge was at UPS it was conference win, next year sweet 16, next year elite 8...always getting better.

Then what happened? Oh, he left before he could inevitably have a season where he did worse than the year prior?

QuoteThis is your problem, Pinecone.  You're not special.  There is nothing about Whitworth hoops that is special (period).  Your consistent and you're good.  But you're not special, you're not anything more than good--nor do you care to be.  You celebrate accomplishing the same goal every year.  For the past (however many) years your program has been stuck in the mud.  In fact, by everyone on this boards accords, you're worse than you were in years prior.  You're going backwards.  Why aren't you better?

I'm still having difficulty understanding and comprehending your point, and this isn't even the dumbest thing you wrote in that last post. 10 straight 20 win seasons and 6 straight conference championships and 8 of the last 9. If WMN ever does that they can be special too. I mean blackhawks whole argument is that because Whitworth is only winning the conference every year and not getting perpetually better (which is impossible) that they shouldn't be applauded/celebrated...seriously. Go write Coach K an email telling him how his 1000th win was crap because of all his teams in the past that didn't win national championships and despite years of national relevance his team has gone "backwards" for a year or two at a time plenty. Gonzaga has an SB nation site (slipperstillfits) that you should go post on, poo-pooing their fans too. Who cares that they completely transformed a mid-major into a legitimate top 25 program year in and year out. They aren't special, they haven't won it all and they are only good for 28 wins a year and for some reason can't keep winning more than that every year. losers.

If bhawks really believes what he types, I mean, if that is his actual thought process and those are his actual reasoning and critical thinking abilities...Bridgeland deserves an award for getting him through UPS' admissions process
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 22, 2015, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 22, 2015, 10:02:22 PM
Ah, another bhawks post that made us all dumber for having read...

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 22, 2015, 10:02:22 PM
I'm still having difficulty understanding and comprehending your point

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 22, 2015, 10:02:22 PM
If bhawks really believes what he types, I mean, if that is his actual thought process and those are his actual reasoning and critical thinking abilities...Bridgeland deserves an award for getting him through UPS' admissions process

Rat, you're the best. I think these three snippets sum up reading 70% of blackhawks' posts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 23, 2015, 12:48:01 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 22, 2015, 10:02:22 PM
Go write Coach K an email telling him how his 1000th win was crap because of all his teams in the past that didn't win national championships and despite years of national relevance his team has gone "backwards" for a year or two at a time plenty. Gonzaga has an SB nation site (slipperstillfits) that you should go post on, poo-pooing their fans too. Who cares that they completely transformed a mid-major into a legitimate top 25 program year in and year out. They aren't special, they haven't won it all and they are only good for 28 wins a year and for some reason can't keep winning more than that every year. losers.

Pinecone & Rat, you've just missed the point completely.  But I understand, you aren't going to get it.  It's not in you.  You're making my point for me. 

You're NOT a national level team!  Why??  I'm not talking about being one game better in the season, I'm talking about taking it to the next level. You're NOT a national player.  You win your league title, beat up on the Cali school, and then lose...every...year.  Don't talk to me about the PNW island, Coach K is at a 5,000 student school in North Carolina with a gym as small as WW competing on a national level against Kentucky, UCLA, Florida, etc.  He doesn't celebrate ACC titles, they're a stepping stone for him.  Mark Few has turned the Zags into a national powerhouse.  He doesn't pop the champagne and high five over his WCC titles.  Why do you??  Why can't you be better??  It's been too long.  Let's talk in your PNW lingo...Bridge turned Wazzu into a Pac 12 powerhouse, in 5 years...that's progress.  Why haven't you gotten better in 5 years?   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 23, 2015, 01:18:22 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 23, 2015, 12:48:01 AM
Don't talk to me about the PNW island, Coach K is at a 5,000 student school in North Carolina with a gym as small as WW competing on a national level against Kentucky, UCLA, Florida, etc. He doesn't celebrate ACC titles, they're a stepping stone for him.

Uhh...did you just compare Duke to Whitworth? Blackhawk, this is why nobody takes what you say seriously! There's also this little thing called scholarships which Coach K can offer, plus the whole "71 players have been selected in the NBA Draft" thing probably doesn't hurt.

We get it. You think Whitworth underperforms in the national tournament. Remember that WW doesn't lose many home NCAA tournament games. MHB is the only one that comes to mind (though I definitely could be missing one). Even the year we were #1 with the national POY we were on the road in the S16/E8. So, yeah, the geography does work against us. We aren't going to neutral sites for the NCAA tournament like Duke. We went to Wooster to play a really good Wooster team on their home floor.

The way you talk about WW sounds like anything less than beating Duke at Cameron is a failed season. Bridge inherited a bad team that had literally nowhere to go but up. Bridge is a good coach, so they got better. Logie inherited a team that entered the NCAA tournament as the #1 TEAM IN THE NATION. Like, there's literally nowhere to go but down. I'm not sure you get that. One team sucked, they got better. One team was very, very, very good and they are still conference champs 4 years later.

Sorry we aren't beating Kentucky yet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 23, 2015, 11:52:02 AM
Very excited for this weekends games. Kip has done a great job this year. No got a team to the playoffs that no one thought would be in the picture. Very happy for him as he has struggled his first few years. Great guy, has learned from one of the best in the NWC ever. Hopefully he can sustain this success and build on it. I would vote him coach of the year just because of the turn around he has made. Not to take anything away from WW coach, but it would be great to see him get it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 23, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: playball on February 22, 2015, 01:52:30 PM
Fun fact: Linfield didn't have a player average 10 ppg this year.  First time in program history.

Interesting stat.  In some cases you could look at this as a positive--spreading the scoring around, makes it harder to defend a team when it isn't just one or two guys scoring all the points.  On the other hand, get the ball into the hands of the guy that can score.  Not sure how the scoring is divided up predicts much in terms of wins or losses--different ways to skin a cat. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 23, 2015, 09:07:23 PM
An interesting stat from WW's press release:

"Whitworth has tied Linfield (1965-70) for most consecutive regular season conference titles in the league's history."

Playball--Life is long.  It will come full cycle and when you are my age you can watch LF win 6 crowns in a row. However, if they are going to match WW they have to win 6 outright titles--no ties.  Also from the press release:

"The Pirates are the only school to have made all six crowns of the undisputed variety."
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 24, 2015, 12:25:57 AM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 23, 2015, 01:18:22 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 23, 2015, 12:48:01 AM
Don't talk to me about the PNW island, Coach K is at a 5,000 student school in North Carolina with a gym as small as WW competing on a national level against Kentucky, UCLA, Florida, etc. He doesn't celebrate ACC titles, they're a stepping stone for him.

Uhh...did you just compare Duke to Whitworth? Blackhawk, this is why nobody takes what you say seriously! There's also this little thing called scholarships which Coach K can offer, plus the whole "71 players have been selected in the NBA Draft" thing probably doesn't hurt.

Pinceone.  Deep breaths.  Please...read...carefully.  You'll note that it is not a comparison of Duke to Whitworth.  It's a comparison of a 5,000 student private school in a little 'ole North Carolina that competes with monster programs on a national level because they're "special"...to...a program that isn't a presence on the national level, and instead is satisfied with conference titles, and makes excuses for why they can't do it.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 22, 2015, 09:54:17 PM
Lost a heartbreaker in the 2nd round last year, we've been to the E8, a couple S16's. For a PNW island school, I'm fine with that. We aren't a Wisconsin state school with 11k undergrads, cheaper prices and an 80+% acceptance rate (*cough* Whitewater *cough*  :)). We're all in the same boat here in the PNW. We are small schools that are expensive, academically prestigious, and it's tough to get kids from Cali up here.

"We're on an island, they're bigger, less expensive, acceptance  :'(....It's sooo haaaaard to get get Cali kids to come to Spokane :'(....its not fair... :'(.  If only Spokane we were located in Walla Walla Washington where every SoCal jock dreams of attending school (Bridge has 6).

I find it ironic that you share a city with a university doing a FEW special things, yet cry that it cant be done yourself.

Tell ya what, Piney...let's just move on.  Does Willamette have a chance on Thursday?  My answer, "No--it's a 20 pt game. Willamette is bad.  What'd they go, 10-15 this year?  But hey--lets give that guy coach of the year."  LC @ WMN.  I don't see LC winning this in Walla Walla, but it will be a more competitive game. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 24, 2015, 01:59:39 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 24, 2015, 12:25:57 AM
...yet cry that it cant be done yourself.

Never said it can't. Just said it's hard. It's not the snap of the fingers that you make it sound like. However, we're up to #16 in the d3h polls! But, yes, let's move on.

Everybody has a chance since they're here. Pirates only won the regular season games by 8 (in Salem) and 7 (in Spokane), so it's not a complete mismatch. WILL is a weird team--they beat UPS, hung with WW, WM and LC, but then lost to LIN? What gives? I actually think WILL/WW will be closer than WM/LC. WW isn't built to blow people out, but methodically win. WM is built to blow teams out of the water, or if they're having an off night, lose to Pacific on the road for the 2nd straight year. But I can't imagine LC going into W2 and getting the win.

My guesses: WW by 8, WM by 15. I hope it's WM/WW for the ship. Who ya got?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 24, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
If a team was picked to finish last in the league by the coaches, and then turns around and makes the biggest jump of every team, does he not deserve to get votes for coach of the year blackhawks? Everyone was saying they were going to be the worst team, but became the 4th best team in the league, why not reward a guy for his improved team? Or, do you think Bridgeland should get it?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 24, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
Best team's coach and best player should not be a lock for poy and coty.  Give it to who deserves it.  Kip has done a lot with little!  Nothing against Logie but look at what Kip has turned around
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 24, 2015, 04:19:14 PM
All-NWC is out. Blackhawk, I was pretty close! Wettig got 1st team over Clough, other than that I got it. Ovchinnikov also got 2nd team.

Love = POTY makes sense. I thought either he or Jurlina would get it. K-Love really turned it on the 2nd half of the season. Logie got COTY which I'm fine with. I personally thought Kip should have gotten it, but who am I to argue against a Pirate?

First Team: Love, Jurlina, Holden, Luedtke, Mounier & Wettig
Second Team: Appleton, Clough, Luhnow, Ovchinnikov, Martin (so basically the LC and WM teams)
HM: Barber, Farnsworth, Valle, McDonald, McNally

All in all, pretty fair. WW got rewarded with 2 1st teamers and 2 HM's, WM got 4 total as well spread across, LC got 3. IMO, the best part is that while Holden and Mounier are seniors, we still get 2 more years of Jurlina and Love  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2015, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 24, 2015, 12:25:57 AM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 23, 2015, 01:18:22 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 23, 2015, 12:48:01 AM
Don't talk to me about the PNW island, Coach K is at a 5,000 student school in North Carolina with a gym as small as WW competing on a national level against Kentucky, UCLA, Florida, etc. He doesn't celebrate ACC titles, they're a stepping stone for him.

Uhh...did you just compare Duke to Whitworth? Blackhawk, this is why nobody takes what you say seriously! There's also this little thing called scholarships which Coach K can offer, plus the whole "71 players have been selected in the NBA Draft" thing probably doesn't hurt.

Pinceone.  Deep breaths.  Please...read...carefully.  You'll note that it is not a comparison of Duke to Whitworth.  It's a comparison of a 5,000 student private school in a little 'ole North Carolina that competes with monster programs on a national level because they're "special"...to...a program that isn't a presence on the national level, and instead is satisfied with conference titles, and makes excuses for why they can't do it.

[snip]

I find it ironic that you share a city with a university doing a FEW special things, yet cry that it cant be done yourself.

Dude, I gotta go with the Whitworth guys on this one. You do not put your best foot forward in an argument concerning D3 men's basketball when you bring D1 comparisons into it. D3 and D1 are two vastly different creatures. As such, any analogy between Duke and ... well, any D3 school, really isn't going to work. Same deal with Gonzaga and a D3 school.

If you really want to make an argument that flies, use D3 analogies for Whitman and Whitworth. There's plenty of 'em out there (including "geographic island" analogies).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 24, 2015, 11:57:36 PM
A Buc Forever....I'll build up your self esteem a little.
In that 65-70 LINFIELD  NWC title run they did not win one game at the NAIA tournament in Kansas City.  :-\  At least W won games in the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2015, 07:50:17 PM
Dude, I gotta go with the Whitworth guys on this one. You do not put your best foot forward in an argument concerning D3 men's basketball when you bring D1 comparisons into it.

The argument is not D1 vs D3, it's those that strive for excellence vs. those that don't.  You're telling me a school like Gonzaga (in the same city!) can compete with the best and the biggest schools in the country yet WW can't compete on a D3 level?!  You've all lost your minds.  The problem with Whitworth is that they follow the same safe system every year, which is only good enough to win the conference, not national level, and they're...oh how did Pinceone put it, "fine with that." (I know this is going to disappoint, but I'm all talked out on this one)

Quote from: Keandre on February 24, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
If a team was picked to finish last in the league by the coaches, and then turns around and makes the biggest jump of every team, does he not deserve to get votes for coach of the year blackhawks? Everyone was saying they were going to be the worst team, but became the 4th best team in the league, why not reward a guy for his improved team?

He should have been picked to finish last.  His team won 1 game last year.  But he's been at Willamette for 6 years.  He didn't inherit this team.  He recruited this team.  He made this current hoops program.  He's made his own bed.  Now he wins 8 games and finishes 4th and he's coach of the year? Come'on.
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 01:15:18 AM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 24, 2015, 04:19:14 PM
All-NWC is out. Blackhawk, I was pretty close! ;D

I'm okay with the NWC team.  Weird year--no true standout players.  I wouldn't even know who else to give NWC POTY to other than Love.  I'm comfortable with Logie as COTY.  Yes the conference was down, but he still guided a not-so-good WW team to a 15-1 season.  There is something to be said for the consistency and preparation with which WW takes the court.  They always seem to show up and handle business...It's really hard to not give backhanded compliments when talking about WW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 25, 2015, 04:03:14 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2015, 07:50:17 PM
Dude, I gotta go with the Whitworth guys on this one. You do not put your best foot forward in an argument concerning D3 men's basketball when you bring D1 comparisons into it.

The argument is not D1 vs D3, it's those that strive for excellence vs. those that don't.  You're telling me a school like Gonzaga (in the same city!) can compete with the best and the biggest schools in the country yet WW can't compete on a D3 level?!  You've all lost your minds.  The problem with Whitworth is that they follow the same safe system every year, which is only good enough to win the conference, not national level, and they're...oh how did Pinceone put it, "fine with that." (I know this is going to disappoint, but I'm all talked out on this one)

Quote from: Keandre on February 24, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
If a team was picked to finish last in the league by the coaches, and then turns around and makes the biggest jump of every team, does he not deserve to get votes for coach of the year blackhawks? Everyone was saying they were going to be the worst team, but became the 4th best team in the league, why not reward a guy for his improved team?

He should have been picked to finish last.  His team won 1 game last year.  But he's been at Willamette for 6 years.  He didn't inherit this team.  He recruited this team.  He made this current hoops program.  He's made his own bed.  Now he wins 8 games and finishes 4th and he's coach of the year? Come'on.


No, he took a really bad team and maximized their talent to win.  Good on him for doing more with less. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 12:20:35 PM
Whitney, Wally, and Will all have gone to the same grade school for the past 6 years.  Whitney came from the charter school.  She came in as a B+ student, scoring 88% on tests, and she's still a B+ student.  Wally and Will both came from crappy preschools.  Wally showed quick growth, and though on the first day of school he was a F, 6 years later, he's an B student, scoring 84% on tests. Will on the other hand, has scored F's every year, typically scoring 20% on his tests.  This year though, Will scored 40%.  Will is still a F student.  In fact, he's still 20% below a D, and 40% crappier than Wally and Whit.  But let's reward Will. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2015, 12:46:09 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 12:58:25 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2015, 07:50:17 PM
Dude, I gotta go with the Whitworth guys on this one. You do not put your best foot forward in an argument concerning D3 men's basketball when you bring D1 comparisons into it.

The argument is not D1 vs D3, it's those that strive for excellence vs. those that don't.  You're telling me a school like Gonzaga (in the same city!) can compete with the best and the biggest schools in the country yet WW can't compete on a D3 level?!  You've all lost your minds. 

Yeah, man, this is apples and oranges. Scholarships vs. no scholarships. You just can't make the comparison. Come on off the island and see how big Division III is before you trash someone for not competing. It's not just a matter of will to compete.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2015, 01:48:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2015, 12:46:09 PM
Yeah, man, this is apples and oranges. Scholarships vs. no scholarships. You just can't make the comparison. Come on off the island and see how big Division III is before you trash someone for not competing. It's not just a matter of will to compete.

Haha...you know you're fighting an uphill battle when Sager and Coleman line up againt you.  Gentlemen,you've pounded me into submission on this argument. 

Pinecone: Would you at least be willing to compromise with me and admit here in writing that Whitworth is not an overachiever.  Just please post that exact statement.  Keep in mind that just because you say this here in writing doesn't mean that they aren't achievers.  It also doesn't mean that they are underachievers.  Think it over and just let me know...

Is it Thursday night yet??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2015, 01:59:44 PM
Final public men's basketball regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
Blackhawks4,

I share your frustration in that I have thought that the WW teams could have gone further in the tournament.  Especially when the Sweet 16 game was at home (even though the loss was to the eventual champion). Also, the loss at Wooster still gnaws at my son.  However, that's sports and single elimination tournaments. Like I said last year, the odds of winning a single elimination tournament are VERY small even if you are an overwhelming favorite.  For example, let's take a team that is seeded well and is everyone's favorite to win the tournament and see what their chances of winning a tournament using realistic odds:

First game the chances of winning are:      0.99  (that means they will beat that team 99 times out of hundred for the UPS grads out there).
Second round the chances of winning are: 0.95
Third round the chances of winning are:    0.90
Fourth round the chances of winning are:  0.75
Fifth round the chances of winning are:     0.70--Final four is a tough place to win. Winning 70% against this teams means you are a huge favorite.
Second round the chances of winning are: 0.60--For the championship game that's pretty good odds
Odds of winning it all:  0.27 or about 1 out of 4 times will a team this strong win the tournament.

The point is, don't judge a team by how the final tournament goes.  That is just one part of how a team should be judged. A team that wins their league 6 years in a row is doing as well as you can hope for.  Winning their conference tournament 8 years in row and going into the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 over half those times is doing as well as you can hope for. That said, Bridgeland  is probably winning more at Whitman than any coach ever has. Good for him and Whitman should recognize they have a guy that is outperforming any coach they have ever had and better not compare him to Logie and say why aren't you winning like they do at WW?  He might pack his bags and go to Nebraska for $2.4 million a year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 25, 2015, 03:13:49 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
First game the chances of winning are:      0.99  (that means they will beat that team 99 times out of hundred for the UPS grads out there).

;D ;D ;D

Blackhawk, Whitworth is not an overachiever. Ya happy? Whitworth is also not an underachiever. They have won when the conference was tough and when the conference was weak. They've never won a national championship, but they continue to win conference championships. Remember--we're the first team in NWC history to win 6 straight undisputed championships--so we are achievers.

Secondly, your Whitney/Wally/Will (great names BTW) analogy fails a bit. When Logie inherited WW, they were #1 in the nation. So, like a 99% student. Today they are a 91-93% student...not quite as strong of a student, but still in the upper tier of students. Also remember that when Hayford left, he took his recruits that year with him (Tyler Harvey who leads all D1 in scoring, Parker Kelley who is a solid starter at EWU and Collin Chiverton who was Big Sky Newcomer of the Year as a JC transfer). Logie basically had to come in and start from scratch. And while he hasn't maintained the Top 10 in the country year-in and year-out that Hayford had rolling by the end of his tenure, Logie has kept this team as a consistent Top 20 team. It took Hayford 6-7 years to really make The Leap, so don't write off Logie just yet.

BH, because I compromised a bit, I'm asking you to compromise a bit. So say it with me: Willamette exceeded expectations this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2015, 04:23:21 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
Blackhawks4,

I share your frustration in that I have thought that the WW teams could have gone further in the tournament.  Especially when the Sweet 16 game was at home (even though the loss was to the eventual champion).

If you're talking about UMHB a couple years ago, they were the national runner-up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2015, 10:59:24 PM
43-40 LC.  This game has been played at a reckless pace. 

One half in the books and Whitman hasn't calmed down yet, meanwhile LC has.  WMN is too "hyped" and are overpressuring, giving LC layups and a bunch of 2nd chance points.  LC has really come to play.

If WMN can settle down on defense and take smart shots, they'll be okay.  If not, LC has a very real chance at taking this one.  Would love to see Mournier get going a little--only 1 shot.  Refs have given WMN a little love in this first half, but my goodness LC's coach should be sucking on a pacifier and wearing a bib. 

WW appears to be taking care of business as usual...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2015, 11:07:40 PM
QuoteWW appears to be taking care of business as usual...

Don't worry, none of us are getting very excited about this one. I mean, it's cool and all but the only person that seems to get real fired up about Whitworth winning anooooother conference title is the lone Whitman fan. Good luck against the Pios.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:01:58 AM
Then again if Whitworth ever actually got to play against Whitman in the conference tourney championship game, maybe going to the NCAA tournament wouldn't be old hat. You know, since Whitman is the better team.

Strong work against the Pios. Another year, another early exit. And speaking of "progress"

QuoteBridge turned Wazzu into a Pac 12 powerhouse, in 5 years...that's progress.  Why haven't you gotten better in 5 years?

Why can't Whitman win a first round conference tourney game?

QuoteEven when Bridge was at UPS it was conference win, next year sweet 16, next year elite 8...always getting better.

Maybe he should go back to UPS...I mean if he can get better every (all 3) years at UPS and he just gets "stuck" behind Whitworth at Whitman, he should probably go back. Especially since perpetual progress is the only thing worth celebrating.

I don't even care if Whitworth makes the tourney this year. After your lolcat moment, seeing Whitman lose tonight is all I need this year to "pop the champagne"

This should be your new signature at the end of your posts
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweknowmemes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2Fi-cannot-brain-today-i-has-the-dumb-cat.jpg&hash=c11b286e9787482a249d770f2bc0e589829a8a1c)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2015, 12:08:29 AM
Man, oh man..oh man..oh man.  This one stings. 

Lewis & Clark played one HECK of a game--all the credit in the world to them.  They deserved that win.  The only one happier than Lewis & Clark right now...is Whitworth...and probably everyone else on this board.

Beat LC by a combined 45 in two games during the season, and then this upset.

14-2, and WMN's first 20 win season in what, a century??  But this...this is so disappointing.  WMN needs to figure out how to get over the hump.  It's just been too many years with 2nd place finishes.

This would be me signing off for the year (I've got a lot to look forward to this year in Chicago with Lester, Rizzo, Soler, and the youngsters), but I suspect I'll have some answering to do tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2015, 12:23:21 AM
We have ignored LC this year, but they had a solid season and that was a great win. Should be a good game on Saturday.  Great job by Willamette getting in the the conference tournament, but it looks like there is a HUGE difference between #3 and #4 in this league.

Was anyone at the Whitman game?  The announcers said there was a possible fight in the stands.  Didn't think LC and WM fans would ever get fired up enough to actually fight with all that pot running around in their systems.

Blackhawk,

Keep posting.  It's always fun to read your posts. Unlike the others, I don't think you are unable to "brain."   I think your delusional posts come from wishful thinking.  It's also fun to see you proven wrong every year.   Now I see why Lucy gets such joy by pulling the ball away from Charlie Brown.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2015, 12:36:03 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2015, 12:23:21 AMWas anyone at the Whitman game?  The announcers said there was a possible fight in the stands.  Didn't think LC and WM fans would ever get fired up enough to actually fight with all that pot running around in their systems.

There's "fired up," and then there's fired up. ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2015, 12:40:48 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:01:58 AM
I don't even care if Whitworth makes the tourney this year. After your lolcat moment, seeing Whitman lose tonight is all I need this year to "pop the champagne"

I would expect so much...

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:01:58 AM
Especially since perpetual progress is the only thing worth celebrating.

This statement is true.  They gotta get over the hump.  It's time.  It's PAST time.  But, if you think Whitman/Bridgeland are in the locker room slapping each other high fives and celebrating ANOTHER second place finish, you're crazy. 

On a side note...let's not forget
07/08:  1-15 / 5-17
09/10:       5-11/  9-16 (Bridgeland's 2nd year)
12/13:       12-4 / 19-8
14/15:       14-2 / 20-6

Thanks for the love, A Buc.  Hope you guys get into the field of 8 and then really shut me up.   Rootin' for the NWC. 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:48:44 AM
If blackhawks would stick to giving us insight on Whitman (scouting reports, gameplans, game recaps, etc) and some game/league standing predictions, he would be a fantastic poster. Its the whole, post a bunch of factually incorrect garbage that makes him unlikeable sometimes.

Whitworth can't afford to get killed on the boards again if they want to win Saturday. They played great defense and still had to go to OT with L&C in Spokane after a 50-30 rebounding advantage for the Pios. Same thing that ended Whitman's season tonight, well that and easy points in transition. So easy a guy off the bench who averages under 4 pts/g put up 18 tonight. L&C doesn't shoot the ball well from the 3 point line (consistently at least), so they will need all of the second chance points they can get. Whitworth has been playing very good defense as of late, I don't expect L&C to have nearly the same offensive success on Saturday as they did tonight. That's my initial stream of consciousness. I may or may not have more organized thoughts later.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2015, 12:40:48 AM
On a side note...let's not forget
07/08:  1-15 / 5-17
09/10:       5-11/  9-16 (Bridgeland's 2nd year)
12/13:       12-4 / 19-8
14/15:       14-2 / 20-6

Sure, conveniently leave out that they were 5-11 the two years before they crapped the bed for a single season and Bridgeland came in. Meaning Bridgeland's 2nd year wasn't out of the norm for this program. Oh, and then we'll fudge some more and leave out the 2 seasons where they finished 11-5 (because staying at 11-5 for 2 years and then only improving by 1 game to 12-4 doesn't look as good as what you posted). Let's also leave out that they regressed (worse than being "stuck" which was your big gripe about Whitworth) in 13/14...

This is exactly what I'm talking about in my last post. Please just stay far, far away from numbers and facts. You aren't very good with them or at least not sly enough to manipulate them without others noticing. Not to mention the fact that we would all agree Bridgeland is one of the best coaches in the conferences, no need to embellish his or his team's abilities to get any of us to admit that. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2015, 01:22:48 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:48:44 AM
If blackhawks would stick to giving us insight on Whitman (scouting reports, gameplans, game recaps, etc) and some game/league standing predictions, he would be a fantastic poster. Its the whole, post a bunch of factually incorrect garbage that makes him unlikeable sometimes.

Death, taxes, and Blackhawk making baseless claims about WM winning that never come true. This may be overkill, but after all the talking Blackhawk does, I don't care. Loved that Whitworth won tonight, LOVED that Whitman lost tonight.

Should be a good game Saturday. Hopefully Whitworth takes care of business as usual. I think at this point Whitworth is probably into the tournament either way. If they win, they're the only NWC team in. If they lose, they probably host LC in the 1st round--or the LC/SCIAC winner. Can't imagine the #16 team not in right? Right...?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2015, 02:11:06 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 12:48:44 AM
If blackhawks would stick to giving us insight on Whitman (scouting reports, gameplans, game recaps, etc) and some game/league standing predictions, he would be a fantastic poster. Its the whole, post a bunch of factually incorrect garbage that makes him unlikeable sometimes.

Well that's not going to happen...

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
Sure, conveniently leave out that they were 5-11 the two years before they crapped the bed for a single season and Bridgeland came in. Meaning Bridgeland's 2nd year wasn't out of the norm for this program.

They were 1-15 the year before he arrived.  You are aware that players graduate every 4 years, right Rat?  This argument doesn't even make sense.  Read it back once, you're a smart guy.

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
This is exactly what I'm talking about in my last post. Please just stay far, far away from numbers and facts. You aren't very good with them or at least not sly enough to manipulate them without others noticing.

Sorry, were the numbers I posted not factual?  I even included seasons.  If we were in grade school and we were drawing graphs, WMN's would be going up.  My gripe with WW has always been that they're not a national level team after 7 years of winning it.  I can't recall, it must have been A Buc, who seems to have some logic, who pointed out the trajectory of WW right before Hayford left, and a bit of a restart with Logie.  That was a very strong point.  I liked that.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2015, 01:22:48 AM
This may be overkill, but after all the talking Blackhawk does, I don't care. Loved that Whitworth won tonight, LOVED that Whitman lost tonight.

We know, Pinecone, we know.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2015, 01:22:48 AM
I think at this point Whitworth is probably into the tournament either way. If they win, they're the only NWC team in. If they lose, they probably host LC in the 1st round--or the LC/SCIAC winner. Can't imagine the #16 team not in right? Right...?

With how the NWC has matched up on a national level in past years, were you the committee, you'd give them an at large over the other western conferences??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2015, 03:25:31 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2015, 02:11:06 AM
My gripe with WW has always been that they're not a national level team after 7 years of winning it.  I can't recall, it must have been A Buc, who seems to have some logic, who pointed out the trajectory of WW right before Hayford left, and a bit of a restart with Logie.  That was a very strong point.  I liked that.

I think that was me.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2015, 02:11:06 AM
With how the NWC has matched up on a national level in past years, were you the committee, you'd give them an at large over the other western conferences??

Yeah, YOU might not think they're national quality, but you are not the lone voter (or even a voter). The #16 national ranking seems to tell me otherwise. Plus Whitworth will jump Whitman for sure in the regional rankings. Might even jump Buena Vista (West #3) who lost tonight too. I think it's entirely realistic that Whitworth ends the season as the #3 team in the west--good enough to host, I would think.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2015, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2015, 12:36:03 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2015, 12:23:21 AMWas anyone at the Whitman game?  The announcers said there was a possible fight in the stands.  Didn't think LC and WM fans would ever get fired up enough to actually fight with all that pot running around in their systems.

There's "fired up," and then there's fired up. ;)

Maybe they were fighting over said pot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2015, 09:57:36 AM
The #16 ranking has absolutely no bearing on Whitworth's selection to the tourney. Pinecone has it right. It has to do with NCAA's REGIONAL RANKINGS. Not sure if Whitworth has enough to jump BV, if they lose. Actually would've been better for Whitworth if they lost to Whitman in the Final, improving their SOS and VRRO. If Whitworth loses, they could be in trouble. Their SOS is just plain embarrassing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 10:11:54 AM
Whitman and Whitworth are in serious danger of not getting at large bids because a loss will do nothing to justify being ahead of Buena Vista. Those SOS numbers are not good this season.

The only way Whitworth finishes third in the region is if they win the AQ... and hosting has far less to do with where they are ranked and more with the fact Whitworth would host the SCIAC winner and then fly to wherever the bye team is located for the second round. Whitworth sure as heck isn't hosting a full pod.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 27, 2015, 12:52:31 PM
QuoteWhitworth sure as heck isn't hosting a full pod.
Well then, they can just fire up that pod.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 27, 2015, 02:21:33 PM
Greek Tragedy, I wouldn't characterize the Whitworth SOS as embarrassing.  It is an unfortunate result of "best intentions."  Whitworth scheduled three teams with very recent history of success and NCAA tournament appearances.  But Trinity, Redlands and Marian are all having down years.  In the case of Trinity, this season is historically bad.  The irony is that if Whitworth had not followed the spirit of the NCAA guidelines by scheduling all non-conference Division III games, and had scheduled 3 or 4 Northwest NAIA schools instead, the SOS would be much higher.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 04:27:55 PM
Their SOS "might" be higher, not much higher... (conference tends to lead to a .500 in most double-round robin conferences) but their WL% would have less Ws making their wiggle room even finer.

As for their opponents... Trinity certainly has had a down year, but Redlands hasn't had any consistently good years in awhile:
2014-15 (7-18, 4-12 SCIAC)
2013-14 (11-14, 7-9 SCIAC)
2012-13 (22-6, 15-1 SCIAC)
2011-12 (13-13, 8-6 SCIAC)
2010-11 (16-12, 11-3 SCIAC)
2009-10 (12-13, 8-6 SCIAC)
2008-09 (10-15, 6-8 SCIAC)
2007-08 (10-15, 5-9 SCIAC)
2006-07 (17-7, 10-4 SCIAC)

And either has Marian:
2014-15 (11-15, 10-10 NACC)
2013-14 (22-7, 17-3 NACC)
2012-13 (15-11, 10-6 NATHC)
2011-12 (10-16, 7-9 NATHC)
2010-11 (4-21, 2-14 NATHC)
2009-10 (9-16, 6-10 NATHC)
2008-09 (11-15, 7-9 NATHC)
2007-08 (16-11, 12-6 NATHC)
2006-07 (13-12, 10-8 NATHC)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2015, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 10:11:54 AM
Whitman and Whitworth are in serious danger of not getting at large bids because a loss will do nothing to justify being ahead of Buena Vista. Those SOS numbers are not good this season.

The only way Whitworth finishes third in the region is if they win the AQ... and hosting has far less to do with where they are ranked and more with the fact Whitworth would host the SCIAC winner and then fly to wherever the bye team is located for the second round. Whitworth sure as heck isn't hosting a full pod.

When I said hosting, I should have made it more clear: I think Whitworth will continue the tradition of hosting a SCIAC team. I doubt they host more than that. I wasn't saying they will (or even should) host an entire pod--just the West Coast game. I still think Whitworth will get in no matter what--if they lose tomorrow, I bet they host the winner of SCIAC/LC. If they win, then I bet they get either host a SCIAC team or get sent somewhere.

Dave, I would say Whitman is more than in serious danger of not getting an large bid. There's no way they are in at this point--unless something crazy happens. You can't lose to Pacific AND LC and still expect to get in--especially in the beautiful PNW.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 04:33:53 PM
Yeah... I'm just trying to allow for the outside chance... but I would agree, Whitworth could be done.

FYI... there is a chance the committee could ship the two only west coast teams somewhere instead of hosting at Whitworth. It will already result in two flights anyway... so if they fly them both to pods, it is the same expense. That would leave the bye to be used elsewhere. Watch Texas carefully (E. Texas Baptist is the wild card).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2015, 04:35:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 04:33:53 PM
Yeah... I'm just trying to allow for the outside chance... but I would agree, Whitworth could be done.

Whitworth or Whitman?

And, yeah, I could definitely see Whitworth not hosting at all if the cards fall as they might. But a win tomorrow helps.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on February 27, 2015, 04:40:27 PM
Big win for LC last night. No one has said much about them this year but they are scary to play because any of them can go off at any time. So, anyone have any thoughts on the WM coach leaving for another job somewhere else because he cannot seem to get over that hump in the playoffs? First round exits cannot sit well with him, especially the last 2 that were at home of all places.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2015, 04:35:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 04:33:53 PM
Yeah... I'm just trying to allow for the outside chance... but I would agree, Whitworth could be done.

Whitworth or Whitman?

And, yeah, I could definitely see Whitworth not hosting at all if the cards fall as they might. But a win tomorrow helps.

Sorry... Whitman... already working on little sleep LOL.

Though, not sure Whitworth gets in with a loss in the title game, either.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2015, 11:55:21 PM
Another year, another tourney bid. L&C did a good job of hitting timely shots to stay in it for 38 minutes.

Whitworth should get to host a round but I don't think that happens. Will be interesting to see the d3hoops guys' bracket projections. They are better at creating an equitable bracket with the NCAAs rules than the selection committee itself...so basically I'm not shocked when their predictions are wrong  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2015, 12:25:11 AM
Honestly... I think NWC hits the road along with the SCIAC winner to a pod say in Texas... because there has to be flights anyway and it doesn't look like Texas will consist of three teams.

Post edit: There are three teams in Texas, but I still think these two west coast teams head east to Texas, one other thought was Emory, maybe somewhere else. But hosting for Whitworth will not happen unless we are surprised that Whitman makes the tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 02, 2015, 04:18:47 PM
http://whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2014-15/releases/201503023luoau

Going to Georgia!!!!

Should be a fun trip with winnable games.  Yes, it is a long ways to go for the opening round, but that's an old story. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 02, 2015, 08:59:02 PM
Well then. good luck. Let's hope there are no weather delays to make the trip even more tough.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on March 03, 2015, 04:27:51 PM
Just finished up putting together PER metrics and published the top 100 players in the nation this year. I'll narrow this to include just the NCAA eligible players later this week.

It does seem that the figures skew slightly higher than I would have expected but that could be attributed to the larger variance between players in D3 vs the NBA.

http://stag44.blogspot.com/2015/03/ncaa-division-3-per-rankings-march-2.html
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 04, 2015, 11:41:31 AM
Lotta work.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Keandre on March 05, 2015, 01:20:58 PM
Great  see Nick Holden from UPS on that list at #33.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: marsonhawk on March 05, 2015, 07:40:08 PM
That's some work Stagg44. I think it's as wide open of a tournament as we have seen in some time. The way teams like LC played down the stretch makes me think that other teams in the NWC could do some damage if given a chance.  Too bad only one team was ever coming out of the conference.  Even in a year when I think the overall talent was down, teams in this conference are so well coached, that they'd have an opportunity against teams that don't know them as well.  Headed to Georgia.  Go BUCS.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 06, 2015, 07:43:32 PM
I did not get a chance to watch the game but it look like a solid win for Whitworth. On to the second round.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 06, 2015, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 06, 2015, 07:43:32 PM
I did not get a chance to watch the game but it look like a solid win for Whitworth. On to the second round.

First half was pretty tight, but the difference was on the defensive end. Pirates held LG to only 17 second half points. Kenny Love's 3 at the end of the 1st half to tie the game at 43 was a big momentum boost into the 2nd half. Great win for the Pirates. On to the next round.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 07, 2015, 09:58:20 AM
Congratulations to Coach Logie!!!!

First Division III basketball coach to win 100 games in his first four seasons. 

Amazing accomplishment. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 07, 2015, 11:41:48 AM
If Whitworth plays defense like they did in the second half for about 30 min tonight they win by 8. I don't expect them to completely shut down Emory like they did Lagrange because Emory will not be so overmatched.

I still think Whitworth is the better team (by a hair). If staudacher continues to play well this team is a little better than last years squad IMO. I mean, the big loss was McConell and I think that was the big reason for the slow start as Logie played around with his lineup at the guard position. Love and Jurlina are playing much better than they did last year. Farnsworth and Valle are still filling the same roles. So when Staudacher plays more like Dustin, this team is good. The defense has been lights out for most of the season since the Whitman loss and without a Symes, Taylor, Lassisi, etc they need to create turnovers and force bad shots to go deep in the tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 07, 2015, 09:03:27 PM
Whitworth drops a close one. Looked like they really controlled the second half until the last couple of minutes. From the box score Emory shot really well from everywhere except the free throw line. Didn't see the ending but that's a disappointing loss regardless. This wasn't a national title contending team (although apparently this year anything could happen), but still figured they were in a pod they would win despite traveling across the country. Bummer. Whitworth will retool and win the NWC again...it really is starting to get old though
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 07, 2015, 10:35:02 PM
Tough loss for the Pirates tonight. Very similar to last season where missed free throws down the stretch killed us. I think we missed 3 straight in the closing minutes if memory serves. Credit to Emory, when Whitworth led by 12 with 8 minutes left, it looked like if Whitworth could push it to 16+ it would be over. But Emory chipped away at the lead and won. Like Rat said, WW will retool and win again next year. Can't wait to see the Pirates with Love and Jurlina a year older--plus with Staudacher and Valle back, should be another good year.

I'm interested to see how recruiting goes for WW. Hopefully they can bring in some bigs to replace Wilks and Farnsworth. Plus some more depth at forward would be nice too. Between Love/Staudacher/Isaak/Brown we are pretty set at guard next year. As always, I will be interested to see who other teams bring in as well to try and dethrone the champs.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 09, 2015, 05:03:24 PM
Quote
it really is starting to get old though
Basketball only?
::)



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopmeister on March 14, 2015, 04:41:59 PM
Some interesting news for Pirate fans. I have heard from several reliable sources that former George Fox combo guard, 2014 1st team All Conference and 2015 DIII News NWC pre-season POY, AJ Grant is looking to transfer to Whitworth for his senior year. He will get a medical redshirt because of a torn labrum in his right shoulder that required surgery. Having him in their guard roatation will make them even better.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 15, 2015, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: Hoopmeister on March 14, 2015, 04:41:59 PM
Some interesting news for Pirate fans. I have heard from several reliable sources that former George Fox combo guard, 2014 1st team All Conference and 2015 DIII News NWC pre-season POY, AJ Grant is looking to transfer to Whitworth for his senior year. He will get a medical redshirt because of a torn labrum in his right shoulder that required surgery. Having him in their guard roatation will make them even better.

3rd school in 4 years?  Sounds like a solid pickup.

Look at Hayford, huh?!  Stud.

*Found this interesting:  Kentucky elected not to cut down the nets after winning the SEC tournament--not the nets they're looking for.  Seth Greenberg, "They dont hang SEC banners in Kentucky, they hang final 4 banners."  Take note, WW.

*Disclaimer:  The opinion expressed above is not meant to be a comparison of D3 hoops to D1 hoops.  I realize that this is a very confusing matter for many of you. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2015, 05:32:42 PM
Quote from: Hoopmeister on March 14, 2015, 04:41:59 PM
Some interesting news for Pirate fans. I have heard from several reliable sources that former George Fox combo guard, 2014 1st team All Conference and 2015 DIII News NWC pre-season POY, AJ Grant is looking to transfer to Whitworth for his senior year. He will get a medical redshirt because of a torn labrum in his right shoulder that required surgery. Having him in their guard roatation will make them even better.

Welcome to the board. That's an interesting first post! I think it'll take a while for people to know whether that's legit or you're just trying to stir the pot.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 19, 2015, 10:22:27 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 15, 2015, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: Hoopmeister on March 14, 2015, 04:41:59 PM
Some interesting news for Pirate fans. I have heard from several reliable sources that former George Fox combo guard, 2014 1st team All Conference and 2015 DIII News NWC pre-season POY, AJ Grant is looking to transfer to Whitworth for his senior year. He will get a medical redshirt because of a torn labrum in his right shoulder that required surgery. Having him in their guard roatation will make them even better.

3rd school in 4 years?  Sounds like a solid pickup.

Look at Hayford, huh?!  Stud.

*Found this interesting:  Kentucky elected not to cut down the nets after winning the SEC tournament--not the nets they're looking for.  Seth Greenberg, "They dont hang SEC banners in Kentucky, they hang final 4 banners."  Take note, WW.

*Disclaimer:  The opinion expressed above is not meant to be a comparison of D3 hoops to D1 hoops.  I realize that this is a very confusing matter for many of you.

You and Seth Greenberg decide to completely ignore Calipari's interview on why they didn't cut them down? Although cherry picking certain segments/stats/etc has been your MO lately...

I don't know if Grant would be a huge addition with Whitworth bringing back plenty of experience at the guard positions. Of course depth is not a bad thing and I'd love to see him get a shot at Whitworth.

Hayford's success isn't a huge surprise as he was and still is one of the best recruiters in the state at any level...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on March 20, 2015, 12:16:26 PM
While I'd love to see AJ Grant at Linfield he will help out whatever school he picks.. I've watched him since his early high school days and was dismayed by his picking Whitman given what I knew of both him and Bridgeland.  I didn't think that they would be a good match... they weren't and he left before playing for Whitman.  He then went to his hometown college and had a couple of great years then the head coach was fired (wasn't he the COY the year he got let go?).  The new coach must not have been a good fit either so here he is on his 3rd school... not ideal but at least he can say he attended 33% of the NWC schools.. not many people can say that especially just during their undergrad years!

Was great to see the D1 success of two of our D3 alumni with EWU and OSU women's doing so well...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2015, 09:28:55 PM
Plane Crash kills 7 in Illinois.... Including 2 staff members at Illinois State University

I quote...
Associate men's basketball coach Torrey Ward and deputy athletic director Aaron Leetch were two of seven people killed in a plane crash Monday night near Bloomington, Ill., Illinois State confirmed in a statement released Tuesday afternoon. The passengers aboard the private plane attended the national title game between Duke and Wisconsin in Indianapolis on Monday night but encountered heavy fog on their flight home.

Leech held different positions within the Illinois State Athletic Department from 2005 to 2011 and from 2013 until his death. In between, he spent two years as the Athletic Director at Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopmeister on April 21, 2015, 04:44:04 PM
I wanted to wait to post again until I heard for certain that he was going to transfer, but after a visit to Spokane this last weekend, AJ Grant posted on his Facebook page today that he will be spending his last year of school and basketball at Whitworth. We will miss watching him play at George Fox, but completely understand why he is leaving. We wish him, and the Pirates, continued success!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on May 01, 2015, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Hoopmeister on April 21, 2015, 04:44:04 PM
I wanted to wait to post again until I heard for certain that he was going to transfer, but after a visit to Spokane this last weekend, AJ Grant posted on his Facebook page today that he will be spending his last year of school and basketball at Whitworth. We will miss watching him play at George Fox, but completely understand why he is leaving. We wish him, and the Pirates, continued success!

Has anyone heard anything else on recruiting? Fox posted their "Commitment Day" stuff a few days ago and it looks like they only got one player, a 6-7 kid from Newberg who was 2nd team all league at his high school. Haven't seen anything from anyone else, so I'm wondering if anyone knows anything.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 02, 2015, 02:28:18 PM
Some of the new Whitworth players

Bucs reload for '15-16 (http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2015/may/02/bucs-reload-for-15-16/)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on May 08, 2015, 02:33:26 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on May 02, 2015, 02:28:18 PM
Some of the new Whitworth players

Bucs reload for '15-16 (http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2015/may/02/bucs-reload-for-15-16/)

FWIW, Whitworth basketball posted highlight videos of their recruits here (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYGwQXGU-xIUTDqaTX3XaSw?spfreload=10)

Worst kept secret on earth is that AJ Grant is coming to Whitworth. The Whitworth basketball account posted his highlight film on their page and under his video wrote that he's Whitworth class of 2016. He's not mentioned in the Whitworth press release, but all indications are that he's a Buc. Bishop looks like a solid prospect. 6-8 lefty and good at sealing off. CJ Johnson looks like another George Valle. Tweener who uses efficiency, craftiness and IQ to get good shots. Looks like a better long-range shooter than Valle. AJ Grant was the pre-season POY last year, and yet Kyle Roach might be the recruit I'm most looking forward to seeing. He looks like he has it all, plus 37 ppg and 10 rpg as a senior isn't bad for a guard. Could Whitworth go to a Kentucky-like platoon rotation next year? Then blackhawk could be right in comparing Whitworth to Kentucky.

Whitman got a prospect today. A kid from Northern California named Ryan Stewart (http://www.timesheraldonline.com/sports/20150505/st-patrick-st-vincent-highs-ryan-stewart-signs-with-whitman-college-in-washington). Apparently he turned down a walk-on offer from Arizona. My favorite part of that article was his final quote about going to Whitman: "They've done very well the last couple of years," he said. "They always have trouble with this school, Whitworth, and they often make it to the championship and lose to them." He sure knows what he's getting into  ;D

Linfield has also announced a recruit. Riley Bruil, the SPSL co-MVP as a junior (http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.html?id=5789&sport=mbkb) and averaged 13 ppg as a senior.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on May 09, 2015, 02:30:07 AM
Ryan Stewart looks long and athletic for a D III center. Could be trouble for a lot of teams.  That said, Ben Bishop is my kind of 6' 8" big man--  http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1804910/highlights/195467381/v2   
I think Ryan is going to find out why WM keeps having trouble with WW unless he spends the summer in the weight room.

Riley Bruil--same kind of guards Linfield already has and is losing with.  Seriously, this new coach had better start recruiting better or LFis going to look like a high school team when they enter the gym.

Kyle Roach--if he gets his shot up higher and kenny love gives Kyle  a few pounds that he lost, Kyle will be an all American.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on May 13, 2015, 02:29:24 AM
Can Bishop shoot midrange or is it all at the rim?  Good finisher regardless.

Linfield needs to start recruiting some size.  Some guys between 6'2"-6'5", shooters, good post players, and quick guards that can create space to shoot or pass.  Seems easy enough!

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on May 17, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
An article in yesterday's Modesto Bee (http://www.modbee.com/sports/college/article21108447.html) reports Rolaun Dunham leaving Whitman and transferring to and walking on at the D-I University of Pacific in Stockton. The article states he must sit a year per NCAA transfer rules.
1.) I thought if you are going from a non scholarship school there is no wait period.
2.) Does Dunham have what it takes to play at a D-I school? Although Pacific was in the cellar of the WCC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2015, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: cawcdad on May 17, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
An article in yesterday's Modesto Bee (http://www.modbee.com/sports/college/article21108447.html) reports Rolaun Dunham leaving Whitman and transferring to and walking on at the D-I University of Pacific in Stockton. The article states he must sit a year per NCAA transfer rules.
1.) I thought if you are going from a non scholarship school there is no wait period.

No, it's the other way around. The rule is that if you transfer "up" (from D3 to D1 or D2, or from D2 to D1), you have to sit out a year. If you transfer "down" (from D1 to D2 or D3, or from D2 to D3), you are immediately eligible. The rule is, among other things, a deterrent to the idea that student-athletes can view themselves as the collegiate equivalent of minor-leaguers moving up the chain. If you view yourself that way, you have to pay a price for it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on May 17, 2015, 11:14:48 AM
Thank you Greg. Anyone on the second question?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 20, 2015, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2015, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: cawcdad on May 17, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
An article in yesterday's Modesto Bee (http://www.modbee.com/sports/college/article21108447.html) reports Rolaun Dunham leaving Whitman and transferring to and walking on at the D-I University of Pacific in Stockton. The article states he must sit a year per NCAA transfer rules.
1.) I thought if you are going from a non scholarship school there is no wait period.

No, it's the other way around. The rule is that if you transfer "up" (from D3 to D1 or D2, or from D2 to D1), you have to sit out a year. If you transfer "down" (from D1 to D2 or D3, or from D2 to D3), you are immediately eligible. The rule is, among other things, a deterrent to the idea that student-athletes can view themselves as the collegiate equivalent of minor-leaguers moving up the chain. If you view yourself that way, you have to pay a price for it.

Among the other things (and I suspect the most important reason) is to keep scholarship coaches from 'poaching' athletes who have proven themselves athletically capable at the d3 level.  According to Michigan coach Beilein, Duncan Robinson (who transferred from Williams) could have probably seriously helped UM this past year (when poor 3-point shooting was their most glaring weakness), but had to sit out a year.  So far as I know, UM did not recruit Robinson, but certainly welcomed him!

As for Q2, sorry, cawcdad, but I am totally unfamiliar with the kid.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2015, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 20, 2015, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2015, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: cawcdad on May 17, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
An article in yesterday's Modesto Bee (http://www.modbee.com/sports/college/article21108447.html) reports Rolaun Dunham leaving Whitman and transferring to and walking on at the D-I University of Pacific in Stockton. The article states he must sit a year per NCAA transfer rules.
1.) I thought if you are going from a non scholarship school there is no wait period.

No, it's the other way around. The rule is that if you transfer "up" (from D3 to D1 or D2, or from D2 to D1), you have to sit out a year. If you transfer "down" (from D1 to D2 or D3, or from D2 to D3), you are immediately eligible. The rule is, among other things, a deterrent to the idea that student-athletes can view themselves as the collegiate equivalent of minor-leaguers moving up the chain. If you view yourself that way, you have to pay a price for it.

Among the other things (and I suspect the most important reason) is to keep scholarship coaches from 'poaching' athletes who have proven themselves athletically capable at the d3 level.

That's actually more the province of the NCAA's anti-tampering rule, Chuck. A coach or university representative cannot initiate contact with a student-athlete who is currently enrolled at another four-year school.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 20, 2015, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2015, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 20, 2015, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2015, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: cawcdad on May 17, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
An article in yesterday's Modesto Bee (http://www.modbee.com/sports/college/article21108447.html) reports Rolaun Dunham leaving Whitman and transferring to and walking on at the D-I University of Pacific in Stockton. The article states he must sit a year per NCAA transfer rules.
1.) I thought if you are going from a non scholarship school there is no wait period.

No, it's the other way around. The rule is that if you transfer "up" (from D3 to D1 or D2, or from D2 to D1), you have to sit out a year. If you transfer "down" (from D1 to D2 or D3, or from D2 to D3), you are immediately eligible. The rule is, among other things, a deterrent to the idea that student-athletes can view themselves as the collegiate equivalent of minor-leaguers moving up the chain. If you view yourself that way, you have to pay a price for it.

Among the other things (and I suspect the most important reason) is to keep scholarship coaches from 'poaching' athletes who have proven themselves athletically capable at the d3 level.

That's actually more the province of the NCAA's anti-tampering rule, Chuck. A coach or university representative cannot initiate contact with a student-athlete who is currently enrolled at another four-year school.

OK.  I wasn't sure that the rule applied across divisions.  I seem to recall even Pat talking about 'higher' divisions treating d3 as 'the minors' if it weren't for the sitting out rule.  Since there are so many untraceable ways for 'unofficial' contacts, it is good to know at least that official recruiting is tampering even across divisions.  (For the record, so far as I have ever heard, contact between Duncan Robinson and UM was totally initiated by DR, but whether or not some alum relative or family friend instigated the idea, who can say?)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 28, 2015, 02:05:21 PM
Yes, I agree that making a student-athlete sit out before taking a scholarship is a deterrent for poaching. There are plenty of ways to make back-channel contact that anti-tampering rules would probably not be effective in isolation.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on May 30, 2015, 08:30:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 20, 2015, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2015, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 20, 2015, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2015, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: cawcdad on May 17, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
An article in yesterday's Modesto Bee (http://www.modbee.com/sports/college/article21108447.html) reports Rolaun Dunham leaving Whitman and transferring to and walking on at the D-I University of Pacific in Stockton. The article states he must sit a year per NCAA transfer rules.
1.) I thought if you are going from a non scholarship school there is no wait period.

No, it's the other way around. The rule is that if you transfer "up" (from D3 to D1 or D2, or from D2 to D1), you have to sit out a year. If you transfer "down" (from D1 to D2 or D3, or from D2 to D3), you are immediately eligible. The rule is, among other things, a deterrent to the idea that student-athletes can view themselves as the collegiate equivalent of minor-leaguers moving up the chain. If you view yourself that way, you have to pay a price for it.

Among the other things (and I suspect the most important reason) is to keep scholarship coaches from 'poaching' athletes who have proven themselves athletically capable at the d3 level.

That's actually more the province of the NCAA's anti-tampering rule, Chuck. A coach or university representative cannot initiate contact with a student-athlete who is currently enrolled at another four-year school.

OK.  I wasn't sure that the rule applied across divisions.  I seem to recall even Pat talking about 'higher' divisions treating d3 as 'the minors' if it weren't for the sitting out rule.  Since there are so many untraceable ways for 'unofficial' contacts, it is good to know at least that official recruiting is tampering even across divisions.  (For the record, so far as I have ever heard, contact between Duncan Robinson and UM was totally initiated by DR, but whether or not some alum relative or family friend instigated the idea, who can say?)

Mr Y.,  excerpt from an article:

...Robinson, the D-III National Rookie of the Year, made the decision to explore his options after Williams head coach Mike Maker accepted the job at Marist. Robinson was immediately contacted by schools in the ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12, Atlantic 10, Ivy League, Patriot League and American East. Some called him just to check in, others called to offer him.

and the full article  http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/30/duncan-robinson-of-d-iii-williams-college-considering-transfer-to-michigan-davidson/


.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 30, 2015, 08:53:14 PM
That list of schools contacted him after he made the decision, at least according to this article. Not sure how he announced that decision (getting his release?) but I suppose that means he wasn't subject to tampering.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
He probably wasn't pre-registered for the 2014-15 fall semester at Williams, which, technically, made him a free agent once the 2013-14 school year ended.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on May 31, 2015, 07:36:25 PM
A key point not made on this thread, but was made in last summers thread on the NESCAC thread was that Mike Maker was John Beilein's assistant at West Virginia.  Coaching relationships run deep and I'm sure Beilein was very aware of Williams' success in 2014 and of Duncan Robinson.

http://www.umhoops.com/2014/07/29/michigan-interest-dream-come-true-duncan-robinson/


The article mentions Robinson talking to Beilein 'for a month'.  It broke that UM was looking at Robinson at the end of July, Maker left for Marist at the beginning of June. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on June 01, 2015, 12:22:10 PM
To fill in the missing piece for folks, Robinson played for Mike Crotty's Middlesex Magic which is a very well connected/well known program and Duncan remains friends with Coach Crotty so long before anybody spoke with Duncan directly Crotty knew there was interest.  Duncan followed all the proper protocol working with Williams athletics department, talked to his teammates about the potential move, Coach App had a chance to visit him at home to talk it over when he first got hired, etc. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2015, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
He probably wasn't pre-registered for the 2014-15 fall semester at Williams, which, technically, made him a free agent once the 2013-14 school year ended.

No, you would still have to get your release, I'm sure. Otherwise lots of students are free agents in this model.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on June 01, 2015, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2015, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
He probably wasn't pre-registered for the 2014-15 fall semester at Williams, which, technically, made him a free agent once the 2013-14 school year ended.

No, you would still have to get your release, I'm sure. Otherwise lots of students are free agents in this model.

There was fairly extensive discussion on the WIAC page when Jerrel Harris transferred to St Leo from UWSP to follow further assistant Lance Randall about the "release." Someone looked through the NCAA documents and find that a d3 player has the ability to self release because he's not on scholarship. Much different ballgame than moves from d2 or d1.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on June 01, 2015, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2015, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
He probably wasn't pre-registered for the 2014-15 fall semester at Williams, which, technically, made him a free agent once the 2013-14 school year ended.

No, you would still have to get your release, I'm sure. Otherwise lots of students are free agents in this model.

There was fairly extensive discussion on the WIAC page when Jerrel Harris transferred to St Leo from UWSP to follow further assistant Lance Randall about the "release." Someone looked through the NCAA documents and find that a d3 player has the ability to self release because he's not on scholarship. Much different ballgame than moves from d2 or d1.

...Though, the rules may have changed since 2011 too.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 02, 2015, 11:10:58 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on June 01, 2015, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2015, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
He probably wasn't pre-registered for the 2014-15 fall semester at Williams, which, technically, made him a free agent once the 2013-14 school year ended.

No, you would still have to get your release, I'm sure. Otherwise lots of students are free agents in this model.

There was fairly extensive discussion on the WIAC page when Jerrel Harris transferred to St Leo from UWSP to follow further assistant Lance Randall about the "release." Someone looked through the NCAA documents and find that a d3 player has the ability to self release because he's not on scholarship. Much different ballgame than moves from d2 or d1.

Yeah, that was the reference I had in mind when I made that statement. I remember somebody looking it up on www.ncaa.org at the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on June 16, 2015, 07:09:26 PM
Back to NWC basketball:

Blackhawk,

Given WW's talent and the way they played at the end of the year last year, I think this is the year WW surpasses your bar for greatness and goes to the Final Four. The only hurdle will be that once they get to league, no one will really push them. They might get complacent and not be ready for tournament type ball at the end. A weak league is not a good preparation for tournament play.  We need to make NWC basketball like NWC football--3 or 4 teams make it a dog fight. LF usually wins that dogfight and they are ready come tournament time.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 16, 2015, 03:41:39 PM
So now that practice has started, who's going to finish second in the NWC this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on October 22, 2015, 07:39:04 PM
Whitworth is D3Hoops.com pre-season #3!   :o :o :o

http://d3hoops.com/notables/2015/10/mens-preseason-no-1

I think they'll be good, but #3 good? They have a lot of questions in the post that need to be answered. They are VERY good and VERY deep at guard though, so maybe they'll throw out a small lineup and just win by running-and-gunning. Seems like until their post play becomes proven, a good team that plays half-court offense with some bigs could beat this team. Guess we will see!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 22, 2015, 09:43:16 PM
When I look at the polls it looks like not many of the voters think they will be top 5, but because they got a bunch of 8,9,10 type votes, they ended up with a higher point total than the teams directly behind them. Agree re: big guys. Bishop isn't gonna be ready to play with the big guys on the tournament caliber teams and Sears probably just isn't good enough (judging by the fact that he hasn't seen the court).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on October 25, 2015, 01:35:42 PM
Linfield
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on October 25, 2015, 01:41:12 PM
Seriously though...
WW
WM
L&C
UPS
WILLAMETTE
PACIFIC
GF
PLU
LINFIELD

I would be guessing that 5-9 will be a logjam without a clear cut best #5. The 2-4 should be entertaining. Heard that Linfield brought in a bunch of guards
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on October 29, 2015, 05:25:13 AM
Good list except I'm going with L&C as my #2.

5-8 will be a logjam. Linfield is going to be one of the weakest teams we've seen in the NWC in the last 10 years. Bring Doty back.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on October 29, 2015, 11:25:27 PM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on October 25, 2015, 01:41:12 PM
Seriously though...
WW
WM
L&C
UPS
WILLAMETTE
PACIFIC
GF
PLU
LINFIELD

I would be guessing that 5-9 will be a logjam without a clear cut best #5. The 2-4 should be entertaining. Heard that Linfield brought in a bunch of guards

That order looks about right to me. I saw Whitman brought in some studs. Always hard to tell by their press release because every year they make it sound like the greatest class in the history of D3, but this one actually does good. Link: http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2015/7/14/MBB_0714152535.aspx
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on October 30, 2015, 08:52:59 PM
The big guy was "most improved?" So he's a bench player...

For everyone else, they literally just described the same player over and over again, just changing the name.

Whitman press release aka basketball buzzword salad. They will be very good with a whole team of "long" "3 point shooters" who can "get to the basket" and are ultra "athletic," did I mention what a "great teammate" they all are?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 05, 2015, 05:42:35 PM
Montana beat Whitworth 83-69. Was tied at 50 with about 13 min left in the game, then Walter Wright took over. Montana went on a 16-0 run, ending up with the 19 pt win. Wright was just too athletic and the Pirates couldn't stop him from getting to the basket and creating (for himself more than others really). Montana will again be one of the top teams in the Big Sky so this seems to be an expected and respectable results from the Pirates. Would have been nice if they could have kept it closer, deeper into the game but this certainly isn't a bad/disappointing result IMO. Looking forward to seeing Whitworth start d3 play. Should be another fun season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 07, 2015, 12:19:20 PM
From what I read about the game. Montana's guards scored the points but they made their run when their big guy got back in the game after some foul trouble. This pretty much underscores the question of whether the Pirate's front court is strong enough to make them a final four team.  I like the fact that they held their own against a second string D1 post. Hopefully the big guys mature fast and they are ready for league play.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 08, 2015, 04:52:19 AM
1.  Whitman
2.  LC
3.  UPS
4. Willamette

#doyoumean3rdinourconferencesaysthewiac #causeithinkthatsastretch
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 08, 2015, 02:17:42 PM
Blackhawk,

Are you related to Lloyd Christmas?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: smedindy on November 08, 2015, 03:59:52 PM
Saw Whitman yesterday against CWU (I do stats for CWU, can't keep me away from Statscrew). CWU's starting point guard has a knee injury and is in a brace, and his replacement is a senior that plays a bit out of control, and Whitman took advantage of that in the first half.

The Missionaries had a 10-point lead at half and were leading 59-48 with 15 to go. CWU got hot, and then the Whitman big guy, Peter French, fouled out. No one else could really handle Joseph Stroud for CWU inside (he had 20 pts, 10 reb and 8 blocks - French wasn't a force on offense but kept him off the boards when he was in). Still, Whitman was able to penetrate, and hit the boards. They sent the Wildcats to overtime when Chircu hit a three at the buzzer, and lost 98-93.

Christian McDonald had 24 points and 7 boards. He's a fine player that is as good as anyone at his position that I've seen in D2. He reminds me of some of the pesky kids at Seattle Pacific.

I was impressed with Whitman. They remind me a lot of the way Wooster plays except they are quicker than any Wooster team I saw.

I wish I lived closer to the NWC teams. It's kind of a haul from Ellensburg and I have my job (we're building a new advancement site at CWU and I make the data flow...) and the CWU hoop games. But I love D3 hoops (and football) and follow all of you as closely as I can.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on November 08, 2015, 05:54:51 PM
I was at the Whitworth/Montana game and the reason the game got away from the Bucs was because of Wright's skill and quickness in getting to the rim and not an indictment of the bigs.  Wright is going to be a handful for the Big Sky. He's the real deal.

I was impressed with the progress Sears has made. His post game looks to be much improved and he seems to have learned he has to play defense with his feet more than his hands. Bishop is a load and will provide valuable minutes off the bench. Still, the front court is young so time will tell.

Lastly, before anyone asks due to my username, I don't have a kid on the roster. The handle is a variation of one I use on another board is easy for me to remember!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 13, 2015, 09:31:54 AM
A good start for the Pirates.  Valle is starting the season strong.  Anybody know how good La Verne is?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 13, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 13, 2015, 09:31:54 AM
A good start for the Pirates.  Valle is starting the season strong.  Anybody know how good La Verne is?

I was on call and got paged at some god awful hour and actually ended watching a good chunk of the second half. Whitworth was in the process of pulling away and Love and Valle were playing fantastic basketball. Exactly what you'd expect from those two. Sears wasn't in much during that period and Nyaaku played well, but it still looks like the frontcourt isn't going to win the Pirates any games. They just need to be good enough to not lose any. White for La Verne was very impressive during that little stretch I watched, mostly because he couldn't miss for awhile there. He's a good size guard that will probably give many of the SCIAC teams some trouble (if he's a consistent shooter...they better hope he is because he seems like a high volume guy). McClain was equally good throughout the end of the 2nd half. The other guys on the team really seemed to hurt them more than help. La Verne looked like a team that isn't very deep, doesn't have much of a frontcourt, but has two very good guards (who happen to be very similar players which might hurt them at times). Good result for the Pirates, hopefully the Leos finish up near the top of the SCIAC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 14, 2015, 09:45:39 PM
A Buc, your joke is 20 years old and not funny; nor is it a very friendly way to start off the season. The past few seasons there has seemed to be a bit of hostility in our relationship, and I'm looking forward to have some civil discourse with you fine gentlemen this season.

I feel like I'm cheating because the most overrated team in the country played last night, but nobody else has gotten this out there yet, so allow me to lead the way:

POTY: Valle
Love
Christian McDonald
Tochi Oti
Luedtke wil
Appleton LC
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 15, 2015, 12:32:58 AM
Did AJ Grant end up at Whitworth?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 15, 2015, 02:27:51 PM
Yeah, he's on the roster, though I'm pretty sure he's not eligible until January?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 15, 2015, 03:11:23 PM
Blackhawk,

Sorry about crossing the line with my joke.

More importantly, am I dreaming or is Linfield 2-0 AND they beat a team LC lost to?  What's going on?  Seems like it is mostly guys from last year doing the scoring. Although the freshman Riley Bruil is starting.  Great to see that program improve. Kind of shocks me given how bad they were last year. 

Back to Blackhawk,

So your predicted all-star team has last year's first teamer Jurlina not on the team and George Valle, an honorable mention pick last year, jumping over Kenny Love for POTY.  I am impressed with Valle's scoring so far.  Haven't seen a game yet so can't comment on that, but I'm thinking this might be a huge year for him.  However, I don't see Love and Jurlina getting worse. We'll see.  All that said, all-star teams don't matter.  A lot of great players that don't score get over-looked on those teams.  I am predicting another 2009-10 year for the Bucs--Undefeated in league and the win the conference tourney. I think this team is on par or better with best the Pirates have been in the last decade.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 15, 2015, 05:47:03 PM
The basketball season has started for most. Quirky schedules means some have not hit the hardwood as of yet. Tonight, Dave will talk to some who have started, some who have not, and some who are still getting used to new coaches.

Hoopsville new early season Sunday shows debuts tonight at 7 PM ET! You can watch the show here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/nov15 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/nov15)

Guests tonight include:
- Matt Logie, #3 Whitworth men
- Joe Riverso, Augsburg women
- Rich Micallef, Brooklyn men
- Kenrda Hassell, #21 Texas-Tyler women
- Ryan Whitnable, Great Lakes Region Reporter

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville)
SoundCloud (podcast): www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville (http://www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopmeister on November 16, 2015, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 15, 2015, 02:27:51 PM
Yeah, he's on the roster, though I'm pretty sure he's not eligible until January?

Although he had to medically withdraw from school 3 times because of concussions and shoulder surgery, the NCAA did not give him another semester of eligibility. Because of this, he does not get to start playing (or practicing with the team) until the end of the semester (Decmber 18). He will be eligible for the Millsaps game on December 19. If he were a football or baseball player he would have been able to start practice on day one and play the entire season, but because basketball covers 2 semesters, he had to choose.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 16, 2015, 07:39:00 PM
He's given Whitworth a lot of problems in the past, could be a real offensive threat coming off the bench. Thanks for the info

Here's some highlights from Whitworth v La Verne...you'll notice more fans watching a game that started after midnight than most NWC schools will have at any one game all season...

http://youtu.be/8LApuA8m18k (http://youtu.be/8LApuA8m18k)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 16, 2015, 09:23:41 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 16, 2015, 07:39:00 PM
He's given Whitworth a lot of problems in the past, could be a real offensive threat coming off the bench. Thanks for the info
http://youtu.be/8LApuA8m18k (http://youtu.be/8LApuA8m18k)
How many balls are they going to let Whitworth play with?

And it's okay A Buc, I've got thick skin.  My prediction was not meant as a snub to Jurlina.  More so that its not practical for 3 players from the same team to end up on the first team, ahead of the best player from the other top teams.  Just the way coaches vote, teammates will end up splitting votes

Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 15, 2015, 03:11:23 PM
I think this team is on par or better with best the Pirates have been in the last decade.
You can't be serious.  They are the most overrated team in the country.  They arent the third best team in the wiac.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 17, 2015, 06:42:45 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on November 16, 2015, 09:23:41 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 16, 2015, 07:39:00 PM
He's given Whitworth a lot of problems in the past, could be a real offensive threat coming off the bench. Thanks for the info
http://youtu.be/8LApuA8m18k (http://youtu.be/8LApuA8m18k)
How many balls are they going to let Whitworth play with?

I assume one less than you normally play with?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 17, 2015, 02:41:18 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.loveatfirstpage.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F07%2F2600506-2041811479-tumbl.gif&hash=39b68f7e1f9222c3f314da9810147b37b30e8483)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on November 20, 2015, 03:09:34 PM
Caltech en-route to the North West to play Whitworth tonight and Whitman tomorrow. 

Caltech has certainly come a long way as a program (pick up this week's Sports Illustrated for all the details if you are unfamiliar -- Chris Ballard did an 8 page article on them).  Whitworth was definitely on a different level last year when the two teams played -- Whitworth won easy 76-48.  Caltech is definitely an improved defensive team since that game and they are shooting the ball quite well this year.  It will be a good reality check for this team to play the number 3 team in the country and see how much of an improvement they have made (...or not...).

Whitman tomorrow -- Caltech last played Whitman in 2013 in Pasadena, Lost 87-73 -- I understand Whitman plays up-tempo and presses? -- Caltech (to this point) has been excellent against the press; they easily broke Masters and USD's press (both very athletic) -- that game could be close if Caltech has any legs left -- they only go 7 deep, so back to back games are going to be a challenge for this team.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 21, 2015, 03:02:34 PM
Caltech is about 1000x better than the intramural quality teams they used to field. Huge props to the admin, coach, players on the improvements all around.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 21, 2015, 09:49:32 PM
Rat--that was actually pretty funny!  A Buc, take notes.

Quote from: WoostAr on November 20, 2015, 03:09:34 PM
Whitman tomorrow -- Caltech last played Whitman in 2013 in Pasadena, Lost 87-73 -- I understand Whitman plays up-tempo and presses? -- Caltech (to this point) has been excellent against the press; they easily broke Masters and USD's press (both very athletic) -- that game could be close if Caltech has any legs left
They just cut the WMN lead to 39.  Hold onto your hats.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WoostAr on November 22, 2015, 11:34:33 AM
I expected a lull from Caltech after playing the best team in the NWC and then busing overnight, but did not expect them to fold like that.  The whole game was just weird.  Best player only played 7 minutes -- then spent the rest of the game in street clothes on the bench after running to the locker room.  Then the players kept trying to play hero ball against instead of passing against a press. 

On the bright side, some of the freshman got some playing time.  Other than that, they will have to flush it and move on.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 22, 2015, 02:01:53 PM
I went over to Santa Cruz yesterday and took in a few games. In the first Lewis & Clarks and Redlands played an evenly matched back and forth game with the Pios forcing the Dogs to foul and hitting their free throws at the end of the game to win 66-62. #11 for the Pios was lights out from 3 point land. Nobody else was able to connect from long range for L&C. Images- http://blog.d3photography.com/2015/11/slideshow-men-s-basketball-redlands-vs-lewis-and-clark-november-21-2015/

In game two, Pacific and UC Santa Cruz, the Boxers used a barrage of three point baskets from a bunch of players to overcome a 7 point halftime deficit to win 69-54. The slugs lost their point guard in the first half to an injured ankle shortly before the half and that affected their play a bunch. Images- http://blog.d3photography.com/2015/11/slideshow-men-s-basketball-uc-santa-cruz-vs-pacific-november-21-2015/
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 27, 2015, 09:27:35 PM
Hey! Quick!~ Look who's 3-0!!!!

And look who they beat!

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/11/23/caltech-basketball-losing-streak-oliver-eslinger (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/11/23/caltech-basketball-losing-streak-oliver-eslinger)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 29, 2015, 12:43:15 PM
Cal Lutheran and Whitman played a very entertaining game after almost an hour delay when the power went out on the UC Santa Cruz campus. The first half was back and forth with the teams exchanging the lead and tied at the half 30-30. The Missionaries jumped out in the lead in the second half, getting up by as many as 8, but the Kingsmen chipped away to tie the score just before the end of regulation. CLU scored the first points in OT but couldn't hold on. Does Bridgeland always whine and complain about every call that goes against Whitman?
Images of the game at http://blog.d3photography.com/2015/11/slideshow-men-s-basketball-cal-lutheran-vs-whitman-november-28-2015/
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 29, 2015, 04:45:04 PM
NWC, don't see this Whitman OT win as a sign of weakness; this was actually a very GOOD Cal Lu team.  Great guards, good defense. I reckon to say that Cal Lu is a top 20-25 team nationally.  They should win their terrible little league.

Though Whitman is better than them,  there was one area where Cal Lu was far superior: Spirit fingers. Seriously, if you're playing Cal Lu this year, no need for any cheerleaders. There is so much Ra-Ra from the bench that I thought they were going to break out Pom-poms, or at least do a dance routine during the timeouts. Perhaps instead of carrying on, if they had saved some energy, they may have been able to hang in OT.

Best WMN team I've seen. They really play like a team, and have changed their style a bit this year--playing more like the masses with not quite as much "gambling."

On a separate note, at this point i couldn't be more bored with the WW/WMN schedules. Can they please take a trip to Wisconsin each year?

Both teams win 20+ games this year
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 29, 2015, 05:32:10 PM
Hey! Lookit me!
LINFIELD @Redlands.
First basketball game in 44 years.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 29, 2015, 06:01:47 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 29, 2015, 05:32:10 PM
Hey! Lookit me!
LINFIELD @Redlands.
First basketball game in 44 years.
Go Cats! Go D O.C.!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 29, 2015, 06:05:00 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 29, 2015, 05:32:10 PM
Hey! Lookit me!
LINFIELD @Redlands.
First basketball game in 44 years.
Is that you in a red sweatshirt standing by yourself behind the Linfield bench?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 29, 2015, 08:23:48 PM
If it said LINFIELD FOOTBALL you know it was!
Yes. Long vacation road trip they ran out of enthusiasm. Evenly matched teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on November 30, 2015, 08:59:32 PM
New poll is out: http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2015-16/week1

Whitworth up to #2, Whitman & PLU both receive votes.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 02, 2015, 04:46:09 PM
Go 'Cats!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
Does anyone know why kenny love didn't play the last two games?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on December 03, 2015, 07:44:25 PM
This is off subject but does anyone know who a person speaks to about problems with this site?

As a long time senior level IT professional, I have to say this site has serious problems.  It has literally taken 5 years for me to even get an account because the account creation logic is so badly flawed it almost invariably throws an error that says something like "Sorry, we are not accepting spam at this time." 

I have spoken with several other people who have had similar experiences in trying to create an account and have just plain given up.  It's pretty safe to assume this frustration has something to do with the lack of activity on this board and the limited number of users posting. 

Today's experience while checking the board from my phone as takes the cake. Here is the message I received:

"Sorry PirateDaddy, you are banned from using this forum! simply(sic) changing your name doesn't make it all better(sic) This ban is not set to expire."

Not only is this message "banning" me bogus and absurd, if any of my staff ever were to program a message as juvenile and insulting as this their job would be in jeopardy.

This lack of professionalism is disappointing to say the least and far below what D3hooops deserves.  Who can I speak to about this?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 03, 2015, 08:07:09 PM
Contact Pat... I suspect the automatic filter systems have kicked in based on problems over the course of the years with these boards. There is a track record that certain domains have been the source of plenty of spam for these pages and site. It isn't because of an effort to squash conversation as you will find on many of these boards which are lively, but an effort to keep the boards from being bombarded by spam.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on December 03, 2015, 08:14:09 PM
Thanks, Dave.  I'll do that.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 03, 2015, 08:17:34 PM
By the way, I also don't think it is a lack of professionalism, either... just an effort to keep the boards clean. That last item you got per changing your name does indicate there could be a problem with your domain or IP address per a blocked account from my experience.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on December 03, 2015, 09:35:04 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
Does anyone know why kenny love didn't play the last two games?

He got poked in the eye in practice. He was kept out as a precaution.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2015, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: PirateDaddy on December 03, 2015, 07:44:25 PM
This is off subject but does anyone know who a person speaks to about problems with this site?

As a long time senior level IT professional, I have to say this site has serious problems.  It has literally taken 5 years for me to even get an account because the account creation logic is so badly flawed it almost invariably throws an error that says something like "Sorry, we are not accepting spam at this time." 

I have spoken with several other people who have had similar experiences in trying to create an account and have just plain given up.  It's pretty safe to assume this frustration has something to do with the lack of activity on this board and the limited number of users posting. 

Today's experience while checking the board from my phone as takes the cake. Here is the message I received:

"Sorry PirateDaddy, you are banned from using this forum! simply(sic) changing your name doesn't make it all better(sic) This ban is not set to expire."

Not only is this message "banning" me bogus and absurd, if any of my staff ever were to program a message as juvenile and insulting as this their job would be in jeopardy.

This lack of professionalism is disappointing to say the least and far below what D3hooops deserves.  Who can I speak to about this?

Hi, PirateDaddy -- send me your info and we can figure out which spam filter or previous member ban you are getting hung up in.

Those who want to use free email to register for the board are doing the same thing the spammers are doing, and so some time ago we blocked off most of the free email providers from registering. I have no doubt that does keep some legitimate posters from registering but many people have other email addresses, too, that they can use. Also, real people sometimes send email if they're having trouble registering and I then attempt to make sure they are indeed actual people and not spammers. :)

So I don't know what email addresses you might have used before but when you registered now with a .edu, I approved you right away. Never have had a problem with a .edu. But gmail? About 98% spam.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2015, 10:52:21 PM
Since you included the text, actually, it was easy for me to determine which ban was hanging you up. There's a board troll who used that IP address to access the board once in the past -- since I'm sure you know better than I how mobile IPs are dynamically assigned, that means you got stuck in that person's mess. I've taken care of it, although of course there's no guarantee you'll get assigned that IP again.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 04, 2015, 04:30:41 PM
..... and daddy, this is a very professional site.
Good look.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 05, 2015, 12:26:06 AM
Interesting story on Appleton from LC
http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/274194-148821-appletons-amazing-turnaround
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 05, 2015, 12:35:11 AM
PLU is getting national votes?  Well Whitworth is #2, so why not, right?  The NWC is officially the most overrated conference in the country.

WW: The only thing not overrated about Whitwoth is Logie's sweet new hipster haircut.  High and tight on the sides, hard part and everything.  I wonder if he wears skinny jeans?  Side notes, 1) I actually kinda like WW's point guard.  And 2) as I mentioned last year, their video production puts everybody else to shame.

WMN: It's halftime and Whitman looks absolutely miserable.  Hard to watch.  One of those games that I've already turned off and will just check the box score later for the W.  It's that PAINFUL.

LIN: Big strides for Linfield, but they're still not good.  Their coach looks to be doing some good things in his 2nd year of a rebuilding project.  Lots of CA kids on the roster.  Thank god they're still holding hands during their introductions.  I always thought that was adorable.




 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 05, 2015, 01:15:22 AM
Blackhawks,

WM woke up in the second half--as did WW.  Looks like another long season for LF. BTW this is LF's coach's third year.

Time will tell whether WW is overrated or not. All I can say is that WW is VERY quick and deep. Love that new kid from Marin.

Playball--you out there?  My youngest is going to WW to play football. Will you root for him against LF?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 05, 2015, 01:30:11 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 05, 2015, 01:15:22 AM
Blackhawks.

Playball--you out there?  My youngest is going to WW to play football. Will you root for him against LF?

No.  And I can't believe Linfield is winning at any kind of rate right now.  They have a roster full of 6-0 to 6-3ers on the team and are being led by a 6-3 post player. Are the teams they played really that bad or are we that good so far?

Buc, what is David up to now?

And back to the football stuff, I'll root for them even though they are bastards who are taking advantage of a lopsided fundraising/administration situation.  I can't say I wouldn't do the same. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 05, 2015, 01:43:56 AM
David is coaching at Eastern Washington. They had a great year last year. Up and down this year. If they get their act together they could make some noise again.

What are you up to?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on December 05, 2015, 06:20:19 PM
Just got my academy date to become a correctional officer here in CA.  Not an extremely satisfying job but it pays the bills!

And congrats to him!  That's fantastic!

Also, Linfield football moves on after beating UMHB with a FG as time expires.  Good day to be a cat
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 07, 2015, 07:34:07 PM
Playball,
Congratulations to LF's football team.  Except for the first quarter of that last game they have pretty much dominated their opponents all year. But back for basketball. I wish WW  would dominate the games like LF's football team.  That said, they are finding a way to win comfortably.

Does anybody know when Kenny love is coming back?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2015, 10:55:21 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 05, 2015, 12:35:11 AM
PLU is getting national votes?  Well Whitworth is #2, so why not, right?  The NWC is officially the most overrated conference in the country.

WW: The only thing not overrated about Whitwoth is Logie's sweet new hipster haircut.  High and tight on the sides, hard part and everything.  I wonder if he wears skinny jeans?  Side notes, 1) I actually kinda like WW's point guard.  And 2) as I mentioned last year, their video production puts everybody else to shame.

WMN: It's halftime and Whitman looks absolutely miserable.  Hard to watch.  One of those games that I've already turned off and will just check the box score later for the W.  It's that PAINFUL.

LIN: Big strides for Linfield, but they're still not good.  Their coach looks to be doing some good things in his 2nd year of a rebuilding project.  Lots of CA kids on the roster.  Thank god they're still holding hands during their introductions.  I always thought that was adorable.

I'm confused... in one moment you say "The NWC is officially the most overrated conference in the country" and then follow that up with:
- "The only thing not overrated about Whitworth is Logie's sweet new hipster haircut."
   So Whitworth, ranked #2, is overrated?
- Per WMN: " It's halftime and Whitman looks absolutely miserable.  Hard to watch.  One of those games that I've already turned off and will just check the box score later for the W.  It's that PAINFUL."
   Seems like this is a bad indication of what Whitman is like. Maybe you weren't refering to them, but since it started with "WMN" that's how I read it. Yet, they are undefeated, getting national votes, etc.
- "Big strides for Linfield, but they're still not good."
   Another knock on a NWC team. Again, confusing.

So you say underrated and then spend time pointing out three knocks on conference teams. Thus really proving the NWC may not be as good as you tried to claim in the first place. Most people would have added to their point about being underrated, not countered.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 08, 2015, 12:19:11 PM
McHugh, this board has been a little flat this year, and you know right where to go to rile things up. If I were a better man, I wouldn't take this bait...but unfortunately, I am weak.

Youre not possibly going to argue that WW deserves a #2 ranking? They don't have a leg to stand on. They haven't even made it out of the sweet 16 in the past 10 years. A team in the NWC should not be ranked in the Top 15. We haven't proved we belong.

PLU receiving votes is just laughable. Therefore, between them and WW, NWC=overrated. Logie's cut, not overrated.

WMN ended up winning by 40, so seeing them being tied at halftime, was indeed, painful. WMN and WW are top 20-25 in the country.

Did you know that if you type whitworth into an iPhone it tries to autocorrect it to "whiny worth."

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 09, 2015, 01:32:44 PM
First off, I truly am not trying to rile things up... that has never been by MO... I truly was confused...

Which gets me to this, let me retract my question... apparently the sleep derivation has really gotten to me, because when I read "PLU is geting national votes? Well Whitworth is #2, so why not, right? The NWC is officially the most overrated conference in the country," I kept seeing "underrated." I have no idea how I did that. I read that statement of yours at least a dozen times before I decided to reply ... and while I was replying. I kept trying to understand why you would say they are underrated and the contradict that they are overrated. I was very, very confused... and apparently it was all done in my head. Didn't see "overrated" until just now. Unbelievable on my part.

Now that being said... I wouldn't read much into the ORV section of the Top 25 right now. There is so much parity in Division III and with voters across the entire country there are plenty of opinions on who are the best 25 teams in the country right now. It is very difficult to narrow it down, so there are plenty of voters voting on plenty of teams. Just because teams are getting votes doesn't make the conference over or underrated.

Some of us voters will get a chance to see Pacific Lutheran in person, soon... that is at least what I am waiting for before I judge them. Their win over Texas Lutheran is noteworthy and their close loss to Chicago is also noteworthy. Not going to dismiss those results.

As for Whitman, my jury is still out. I have seen that team start hot before and then implode later in the season... so I am waiting.

As for Whitworth, they aren't overrated at all. Clearly you aren't a fan, but I suspect there is a lot of bias there. What I have seen online is good and I have had a few coaches reach out to me independently and talk very, very well about Whitworth. I wouldn't dismiss them right now at all... especially with so much parity around the country.

Now, you argue they haven't made it out of the Sweet 16 in the last ten years, but it isn't like the tournament is balanced in a fair manner for them. It could be argued that teams in the Northeast have an easier road to get to and possibly out of the Sweet 16 than any teams west of (or near) the Mississippi River have. It can understand that argument since NWC teams have to a) travel great distances, usually, for that round of the tournament and b) are usually lined up with very difficult opponents at that point in the tournament.

For comparison purposes:
2015: Whitworth lost to Emory in the second round AT Emory (Atlanta - cross-country trip in the first weekend). Whitworth went in #13/Emory #11. Emory lost to eventual national champs UWSP next round and finished ranked #7/Whitworth finished #15. I'm not going to ding Whitworth for that - they would have lost the next round anyway.

2014: Whitworth lost to UT-Dallas in the second round AT UT-Dallas (Dallas - halfway across the country in the first weekend). Whitworth went in #12/UTD #16. UTD lost to eventual national champs UWW and finished ranked #13/Whitworth finished #20/. I'm not going to ding Whitworth for that - they would have lost the next round anyway.

2013: #6 Whitworth beat ORV Emory in the second round AT HOME. They then hosted ORV UMHB and lost in the Sweet 16. OMHB shocked EVERYONE and made it to the championship game in Atlanta where they lost to UWSP. Whitworth finished #11 / UMHB #2. Again, not going to ding Whitworth. It took a comeback of all comebacks for UMHB to win - and UMHB made the same comeback in the next two games to get to the championship (beating #11 St. Mary's [Md.] and #1 St. Thomas to do it).

2012: #7 Whitworth advanced to the Sweet 16 and faced #6 Virginia Wesleyan in Whitewater, Wisconsin (half-way across the country). They lost to VWC who then lost in the Elite 8 to eventual national champions #8 UW-Whitewater. Whitworth finished ranked #10, Vir. Wesleyan #5. Again... not going to ding Whitworth as they would have had to beat a higher-ranked team before losing to the eventual champs.

2011: #1 Whitworth got a first round bye and beat Chapman to advance to the Sweet 16... where they BEAT #11 Marietta (in Wooster, Ohio - 3/4s of the way across the country) to advance to the Elite 8 (oops, that means they advanced past the Sweet 16 which you have noted they have not done). Whitworth then lost to #5 (and receiving a first place vote) Wooster on Wooster's home court. Wooster would win the semifinal over #4 Williams, but would lose in the championship game to #8 St. Thomas. Again... not a ding here as they got to the Elite 8 before losing to another national runner up. Whitworth finished #5, Wooster #2.

2010: #4 Whitworth had a first round bye and beat Chapman to advance to the Sweet 16 where they lost to #10 Eastern Mennonite on EMU's HOME floor (Harrisonburg, Virginia - cross-country trip). EMU would go on to lose to #3 Guilford in the next round. Guilford would lose to #2 Williams in the semis and Willions would lose to #5 UW-Stevens Point in the title game. Whitworth would finished ranked #7, EMU finished #4 with all three eventual teams finishing in the top three in the national rankings. Not sure I can ding Whitworth here either: cross-country trip followed by a loss to the home team and three incredibly difficult teams to follow.

2009: #21 Whitworth beat CMS in the first round before losing to #7 Puget Sound at Puget Sound in the second round. Puget would eventually lose to St. Thomas who got beat by eventual national champs Wash U in the Elite 8. Whitworth absolutely was in the toughest side of this bracket by far... and finished ranked #24 while Puget finished #9. Do you really want me to slight them for this result?!

2008: UNRANKED Whitworth (who only had two points in the Top 25) got a first round bye and beat Occidental to advance to the Sweet 16. There they faced also unranked Wheaton (IL) in a game played at Hope (Michigan - 2/3s-3/4s of the way across the country). Wheaton would eventually lose to Hope who would end up losing in the semis to eventual national championship WashU. This was probably the second hardest bracket that year. Whitworth finished unranked (47 points) and Wheaton jumped up to #11 (Hope was #3). Not sure we can't actually give Whitworth credit for this tournament run.

2007: #11 Whitworth had to travel to Wash U for the first weekend (half-way across the country) where they beat DePauw (unranked, but receiving votes) in the first round and then lost to #8 Wash U 63-61(!) in the second round. Wash U would get to the final four where they would lost to defending champs #4 Virginia Wesleyan who lost to #6 Amherst in the title game. Whitworth finished ranked #9, DePauw remained unranked. Not sure we should slight Whitworth here, either.

2006: NOT IN THE TOURNAMENT.

So in the ten years you say they haven't performed, they were in the tournament the last nine-straight and got to the Sweet 16 five times and to the Elite 8 once. They lost to a team who got beat by the eventual champs each of the last two years and lost to a team who got to the championship game twice as well. They also had the eventual champions in their bracket five times (four in their immediate quadrant, once in their half). Whitworth also played at home in the second weekend ONCE and that was the odd 2013 season when it was actually the third weekend.

Now that all being said... the Top 25 poll right now... has less to do with the last ten years of tournament success or failure and more to do with maybe the end of last season and the start to this one. Whitworth has a chance to be in front of a few voters in a few weeks, just like PacLu... so let's let the polls settle a bit before you state they are overrated.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 09, 2015, 11:20:03 PM
McHugh, I haven't read a novel that long without pictures in it for at least 10 years.  That was 19 paragraphs of excuses, "the long travel, the tough bracket  :'( ....Can't Ding Them For That!"  But the fact is, in 10 years, WW has made it out of the sweet 16 once (to be eliminated in the field of 8).  And now you think they're the #2 ranked team in the country?  When historically speaking, the NWC hasn't been able to hang with the top D3 conferences.  Coleman, will you talk some sense into him? Look, I want the NWC to have the #2 ranking, just think we need to prove it first.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 09, 2015, 01:32:44 PM
Some of us voters will get a chance to see Pacific Lutheran in person, soon... that is at least what I am waiting for before I judge them.

Okay, the rest of us will wait for you to figure it out. 




Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 09, 2015, 11:54:15 PM
Just showing I think through what I post and comment on and show my work...

And you do realize there are 25 voters, right? I'm just one and happen to be the one who is willing to tell you how I vote?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 10, 2015, 01:21:02 AM
I do appreciate the work and I did enjoy reading the response...just a bit too "whiny worth" for me. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 10, 2015, 09:50:49 AM
Not sure why you think I would be whining... I honestly don't have a dog in this.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 10, 2015, 02:23:59 PM
McHugh,

Thanks for a very complete review of Whitworth's resume over the last 10 years. Even though it has been an impressive 10 year run, Blackhawks is still doesn't believe they deserve a top 10 ranking.  That's his opinion and that is always the way it goes with rankings.  I happen to agree with you and I find it amazing how well Whitworth does each year in the tournament given that they have to travel and play in the home gym of their opponents once past the first couple rounds.  I can say that having watched  many of those road playoff games, I believe WW would have won many of those games on neutral courts.  Winning a tournament is tough and single elimination tournaments  (especially ones set up like  the DIII tourney)  don't often achieve the goal of having the "best" team win.  That's why the NBA plays 5 and 7 game series to select their champions.  All that said, the rankings and the tournament are a lot of fun.  Thanks again for a great review.

Back to the present.  When is Kenny Love coming back?  Anyone?


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on December 10, 2015, 05:38:16 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 07, 2015, 07:34:07 PM
Does anybody know when Kenny love is coming back?

He should be back for the game on Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 10, 2015, 10:52:44 PM
Go 'CATS!

That's one thing different this year.
Thank you for the WW decade bringing me up to speed.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 12, 2015, 03:33:40 PM
It just sounds like 10 years of excuses to me.  How about instead of justifying why they can't get the job done, they just get the job done?  A #2 team in the country is pounding on the championship doorstep.  The NWC can't even get out of the field of 16.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 01:36:42 PM
But here's the problem with that thinking... you are assuming the brackets are even. They simply aren't in Division III. As much as the committee tries to have a balanced bracket... there is only so much you can do in the confines of the NCAA structure.

If Whitworth was coming out of the Northwest, East, Atlantic, and maybe even the Mid-Atlantic regions... they would have probably advanced to Salem on several occasions. Instead, they have to come through a side of the bracket that features consistently some of the best teams in the country ... and where you will meet those teams as early as ROUND ONE or TWO in the tournament. Then in the simple fact that almost every single team Whitworth has had to face is either playing the second weekend at home... or traveling a short distance (especially in comparison to Whitworth) for that game. Whitworth almost always is on the road in the second weekend (2013 being an exception not only for Whitworth, but for the entire tournament) and is almost always traveling at least halfway across the country. Cross-country travel isn't easy, especially eastward, when you don't have a D1 budget and school is actually important (so you can't take a few days to adjust).

Again, I pointed out how many times Whitworth has lost to the national runner up... or lost to the eventual national champs... or lost to a team who immediately lost to the eventual national champs. It isn't like Whitworth is getting an easy bracket year in and year out.

Should the number two team be in Salem every year? No. Because the bracket doesn't allow it every.

Should the number two team beat teams ranked behind them? Maybe. But this is a one-and-down tournament and more times than not a team ranked higher probably would have won in a series. The single game brings in too many "what ifs" and crazy bounces.

And by the way... Whitworth has gotten out of the Sweet 16, but I guess doing it once in ten years isn't good enough. Believe it or not... the consistently of reaching the Elite 16 years is not easy. Even St. Thomas lost in the first round last year and other top teams have lost early more times than not. I don't have the time to do it now, but I would be interested to see who has been to the Sweet 16 the most in the past decade. I would put money on Northeast teams like Amherst leading the way and see Central and West teams not having as high a number as you would think per YOUR reasoning that national ranking trumps all rational thinking.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2015, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 01:36:42 PMAnd by the way... Whitworth has gotten out of the Sweet 16, but I guess doing it once in ten years isn't good enough. Believe it or not... the consistently of reaching the Elite 16 years is not easy. Even St. Thomas lost in the first round last year

So did UW-Whitewater, for that matter -- and UWW was the defending national champion.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2015, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 01:36:42 PMAnd by the way... Whitworth has gotten out of the Sweet 16, but I guess doing it once in ten years isn't good enough. Believe it or not... the consistently of reaching the Elite 16 years is not easy. Even St. Thomas lost in the first round last year

So did UW-Whitewater, for that matter -- and UWW was the defending national champion.

Exactly!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 13, 2015, 08:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 01:36:42 PM
If Whitworth was coming out of the Northwest, East, Atlantic, and maybe even the Mid-Atlantic regions... they would have probably advanced to Salem on several occasions. Instead, they have to come through a side of the bracket that features consistently some of the best teams in the country ...

Again, I pointed out how many times Whitworth has lost to the national runner up... or lost to the eventual national champs... or lost to a team who immediately lost to the eventual national champs. It isn't like Whitworth is getting an easy bracket year in and year out.

McHugh, you tell a compelling story, but I'm curious why you only tell half?  You boast of the runner-ups who eliminate WW, but you don't mention that nearly every year, WW bullies around our little brother the SCIAC before bowing out of the tourney.  In fact, the Elite 8 appearance, was that not the byproduct of a first round bye, and then the winner of the Chapman/SCIAC game??  In 10 years, has WW ever beat a team with a top 10 national ranking?  Top 15 ranking?  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "never."

I'm glad you're on record stating that WW deserves to be the #2 team in the nation.  But with 0 wins over top 10 teams in 10 years, I don't understand your justification.     

BTW, WW and WMN both win 20+ games this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 09:41:40 PM
What I find funny is you ignore the fact they make it to the Elite 8, but then bring it up trying to say they didn't beat anyone to get there and getting there meant nothing ("FINE, they got to the Elite 8... but they beat no one, so it doesn't count!")... and then ignore who they beat in the Sweet 16 to advance to the Elite 8. But in reality... you have no idea who they beat and who you are trying to "put down" in the process.

When we talk about 2011, I forgot to mention in my recap that beating Chapman was a big win. Chapman was ranked #12 going into the tournament. They had blitzed their way through the season including about half the NWC. That might have been the best Chapman team in their history, or a close second to the team the following season. After that win, Whitworth beat #11 Marietta to advance to the Elite 8.

So that's two Top 15 wins. Sure they don't have any Top 10 wins... but to be honest, not many people outside of the Top 10 have wins over Top 10 teams in the NCAA tournament. You keep raising the bar to make your argument seem to make sense when in reality you are basically starting to say no one deserves to be in the Top 25 at all by your standards.

(Quick side note, it is amazing that most people hate if voters take into account past years because it either keeps a team in the poll who shouldn't be there or keeps a team out of the poll who has no history. You are one of the VERY rare individuals who insists that ten years of data be considered when voting in a weekly Top 25 poll in any particular season.)

There are a number of SCIAC teams who are pretty good over the years, but like Whitworth, they have the EXACT same road in the NCAA tournament almost every ... single ... season. NWC vs SCIAC in first and/or second round. There is NO way you can sit there and say either conference is down, teams are not good, etc., etc., etc., when your data set is the same two conferences playing every single year. If they ever got the chance to play other conferences (and once in a blue moon it happens) in the opening weekend and there was enough information to make a judgement... I would. But you simply can't.

I realize you want to keep bashing them... go ahead. I realize you might be trying to discredit me... go ahead, except know I am not ignoring any part of the story. I filled it out in detail. You just seem to be choosing to read only the parts you care about while ignoring, when you want to, the other parts. Every win in the last decade is in there... every lose is in there as well. I would love to see Whitworth come through the Northeast some day, but that never is going to happen.

One last point... I tend to see a lot of Whitworth through the years. While I can't get to the Seattle area to a game, I watch a number of games online... and I have seen them a fair number of times in person (thanks to events like the D3hoops.com Classic). I think they would match up very well with teams in the east. I have also said I can understand an argument that they aren't the second best team in the country. That's where I have them now, but certainly subject to change. However, to say they aren't a Top 25 team is ludicrous.When I also have several head coaches who have seen them in person contacting me explaining why they think they are a Top 5 team... I take that more seriously than someone with an ax to grind.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 14, 2015, 08:08:02 AM
Oh don't bother with things like logic and reason...we've tried
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 14, 2015, 11:13:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 09:41:40 PM
You keep raising the bar to make your argument seem to make sense when in reality you are basically starting to say no one deserves to be in the Top 25 at all by your standards...to say they aren't a Top 25 team is ludicrous. 

Never said this.  I've said WW, WMN, and Cal Lu (SCIAC) are top 25 teams.  Until NWC proves otherwise, they peak out at #15. 

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2015, 09:41:40 PM
You are one of the VERY rare individuals who insists that ten years of data be considered when voting in a weekly Top 25 poll in any particular season.)

Why don't we take this a step further.  I typed "D3 Men's Basketball National Champions" into the ole' google machine, and found an interesting fact.  It appears that since 1975, which was as far as the records go back, there hasn't been a single Champion OR Runner-Up from a state west of Minnesota...ever.  That's 40 years. 

So, in 10 years, WW has never beaten a top 10 team (thanks for the correction), and in 40 years, no team from the West Coast has EVER finished in the top 2 in the country. 

But WW deserves a #2 ranking, and I'm the irrational one.  Got it.  Thanks.


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 15, 2015, 10:53:42 AM
This will probably be my last response... because you clearly have an ax to grind...

Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 14, 2015, 11:13:01 PM
Why don't we take this a step further.  I typed "D3 Men's Basketball National Champions" into the ole' google machine, and found an interesting fact.  It appears that since 1975, which was as far as the records go back, there hasn't been a single Champion OR Runner-Up from a state west of Minnesota...ever.  That's 40 years. 

So, in 10 years, WW has never beaten a top 10 team (thanks for the correction), and in 40 years, no team from the West Coast has EVER finished in the top 2 in the country. 

Um... seriously?! There are maybe 30 teams west of Minnesota. 90% of Division III is east of the Mississippi and in the history of the division that number has been a lot smaller... that is a very small percentage and a very large expectation. And of course, I mentioned them already in this "discussion," but Mary Hardin-Baylor made the championship game in Atlanta in 2013 (going in unranked).

And of course, you don't have to Google search that information, there is a far easier location to find it all here: All-time Division III basketball champions (http://www.d3hoops.com/archives/index).

You of course... raised the bar once again with this one because we have gone from having a team needing to get past the Sweet 16 first. Of course Whitworth got to the Elite 8, so you raised the bar to the championship game (after I pointed out that Whitworth usually lost to THE team who got to the title game or a team who lost the next round to THE team who got to the title game). Now, we have shown that four teams from west of Minnesota have gotten to the final four at least seven times. (Side note: Seven final fours in the 40 years of the final four is a higher percentage - almost double - than there are Division III teams west of the Mississippi River/Minnesota.)

While you may not agree you are raising the bar, you are. You have an ax to grind. You don't like Whitworth for many reasons and that is clouding your judgement. I don't have a dog in the race (literally, my alma mater hasn't been in the national conversation is nearly 20 years), so my judgement isn't jaded.

You are the only person I know who wants ten years of data to indicate if a team should be nationally ranked this past week. You don't like the ranking: got it. You aren't going to change the voter's minds, I am pretty sure. Though, it's laughable you want Whitman nationally ranked. By your standards (ten years of post-season play), why?! They have proven they can win games against easy competition, but either can't get into the NCAA tournament because they can't beat Whitman when it really matters or put a resume together to get into the tournament as an at-large team in the first place. And when/if they do get into the tournament... how far do they go? You are knocking Whitworth and yet, they have done far better than Whitman in the last twenty years.

Moving on... I have a busy set of weeks ahead. Enjoy your holidays and stop grinding your ax... it isn't getting you anywhere.

By the way, thanks, Steve! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on December 15, 2015, 01:31:57 PM
Dave,
Thanks for the great insights and the history lesson. I know that Whitworth has been good for a long time, but I have not really followed them until this year so what you have shared is greatly appreciated. Also, is there info available for the D3hoops.com Classic (schedule and links)? Can not go this year but want to be able to watch some games.

Thanks Again!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 15, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's. 






Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 15, 2015, 02:49:29 PM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on December 15, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's.

I thought I told you all, logic and reason have no place here...it won't work.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 15, 2015, 11:35:47 PM
Quote from: HoopsCoachG on December 15, 2015, 01:31:57 PM
Dave,
Thanks for the great insights and the history lesson. I know that Whitworth has been good for a long time, but I have not really followed them until this year so what you have shared is greatly appreciated. Also, is there info available for the D3hoops.com Classic (schedule and links)? Can not go this year but want to be able to watch some games.

Thanks Again!

You are welcome.

As for the D3hoops.com Classic... we will have stuff compiled, yes. All of us are a bit overwhelmed with the cross-over of football and basketball - almost two months of back-and-forth thinking (or trying to think)... I suspect Pat will have that organized sometime early next week once we have all returned from Salem and the football championships.

Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on December 15, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's. 


Now sure who you are referring to... but it was brought up the history of Division III basketball and it goes back to 1975.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 17, 2015, 05:51:46 PM
AJ Grant will be playing for Whitworth this Saturday. Will be interesting to see how he gets worked in the rotation...and the rich get richer
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 17, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
It doesn't look like LF is for real this year, although they have won more games than I would have predicted. However, PLU looks for real. Has anyone seen them play?

My prediction for this year:  WW goes undefeated for the complete regular season.  Their toughest games left will be Whitman. This looks like the quickest WW team I've ever seen.  If WM tries to press like they usually do, I think WW will exploit it.  So, my prediction is an undefeated season, win the NWC tournament, and go onto the NCAA tourney.  How will they do in the tournament?  I'm predicting final four this year.

Blackhawks,

Wil that make you happy.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 17, 2015, 10:53:57 PM
Forgive me for thinking that WW, the NWC, and the West Coast need to prove we belong before anointing a team #2 in the rankings.  I just wanted a shred of data, any statistic.  But there's none to back-up the argument.  Instead, I got "Can't knock them for that" losses, 2 wins over #10-15 ranked teams in a 10 year span, a raising the bar tangent, and the hyenas out to scavenge. 

Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 17, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
I'm predicting final four this year.

Wait, A Buc not #2?  McHugh needs to talk some sense into you.

Quote from: (509)Rat on December 15, 2015, 02:49:29 PM
I thought I told you all, logic and reason have no place here...it won't work.

You have logic for#2, Rat?

Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on December 15, 2015, 01:53:11 PM
Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's.

"Dude"...read the post. The west coast hasn't won in D3...EVER...I think we got LC in the final 4 in 1999??  (Note: I didn't check this data)

Moving forward....Look, I don't have anything against WW other than they've won the conference 10 years in a row and I'd prefer to see WMN do it instead...which sort of makes them the antichrist to me. 

WW gets to deal with a little instability this year and that intrigues me (meshing Grant's return after not playing for a long time & Love off injury, with Valle taking a larger role, no real post presence, an emerging point guard, who starts, who doesn't, who shoots and how much, and lastly, is extra slim fit too slim in men's coachwear?).

I am VERY excited for LC to play Augustana!  #1 in the nation.  Huge game!

I'm also interested to see the George Fox/Cal Lu score to see if I've over-ranked Cal Lu.  I also LOVE that WW is going to Vegas this year, but its disappointing that they appear to be catching their opponents in down years.

On the WMN/WW front, hard to get excite for the Millsaps slaughtering this weekend 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 17, 2015, 11:00:40 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 17, 2015, 05:51:46 PM
AJ Grant will be playing for Whitworth this Saturday. Will be interesting to see how he gets worked in the rotation...and the rich get richer

3 teams in 4 years? I dunno. It's kinda like being the best man at your buddy's third wedding. You're hoping for the best, but, well, ya know...what happened the first two times?

Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 17, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
My prediction for this year:  WW goes undefeated for the complete regular season.  Their toughest games left will be Whitman.

Not likley, A Buc.  But not asinine.  WW and WMN probably match up 3x.  If we're playing the percentages, I don't see it.  Both finish with 20+ wins. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on December 18, 2015, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 17, 2015, 11:00:40 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 17, 2015, 05:51:46 PM
AJ Grant will be playing for Whitworth this Saturday. Will be interesting to see how he gets worked in the rotation...and the rich get richer

3 teams in 4 years? I dunno. It's kinda like being the best man at your buddy's third wedding. You're hoping for the best, but, well, ya know...what happened the first two times?


Blackhawks,

Here is what happened. Just so you know, AJ has only played for George Fox. He was recruited hard by Whitman and ended up going there after high school.  It did not take long for him to realize the program was not what it appeared to be from the outside and that he could not be there. He withdrew without record having never practiced or played for Whitman.

When he came back he had several offers from NAIA schools, but decided to stay home and enroll at George Fox. Since he was not going to play that year, he helped coach at his old high school. During a practice, he got undercut and landed on the floor head first. He had a major concussion that forced him to medically withdraw from school.  He got no credits his first year out of high school.

In January of his first year playing, he reinjured his right shoulder, played through it but suffered another major concussion that once again forced him to medically withdraw. He had his 3rd shoulder surgery and got ready for the next year.

He had a very good 2nd season highlighted by a win at #3 Whitworth and a trip to the league tournament. With everyone coming back, there was a lot to look forward too. During that Summer, Fox fired COY Mark Sundquist and brought in "The Shark".

Although he had a very good statistical season and was selected 1st Team All-Conference, it was an extremely frustrating year for him. There are too many things to mention and this is not really the place for it anyhow. Let's just say that with 2 first teamers and 1 2nd teamer for them to miss the league tournament ... frustrating.

AJ thought very seriously about going somewhere else, but because it was to be his senior season, he decided to stick it out. After he reinjured his shoulder again and had to have a 4th surgery, things happened to make him re-assess what he would do. It was made very clear to him that players not recruited by this coach would not be welcome back the next year. The decision was made to find somewhere else to finish his college career.

He looked at all of the schools in the NWC and felt like Whitworth was the best fit academically and athletically. When he contacted them, they were very cautious.They began checking into eligibility for him. Even though he withdrew without record from Whitman and missed 3 semesters at Fox for medical reasons, the NCAA did not give him any semesters back, thus the reason he is ineligible until Saturday. Even so, they were excited to get him. Although he knew he could not play until December, he moved to Spokane in July so he could work out with the players that were around.

Since he was in Kindergarten, all he wanted was to play basketball in college. Now he just wants to finish his career with a positive experience. He does not really care if he only gets 5 minutes a game, he is excited to be part of the Whitworth program.

This may be more than you cared to know, but you did ask. Believe me, I could give you all the details but again, this is not the place for that. Know that we are happy because he is happy. And yes, I am AJ's dad.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 19, 2015, 06:34:11 PM
Sounds like he's overcome a lot of adversity.  Good luck to AJ.  Wish him and his team a great year with a 2nd place finish  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 19, 2015, 06:57:28 PM
Have this WW game on in the background.   It's 48-22.  Seriously, how does Augustana make a trip to the Northwest and WW and WMN don't have a game with them? 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 19, 2015, 08:50:47 PM
I shudder to think where the Clemson football team would be ranked this year if pollsters and the playoff committee took historical data from the past 10-15 years into account. As if the performance of completely different players have any bearing on the success or projected success of a current team's roster...

I think it's fair to question why Whitworth couldn't get Augustana to Spokane, as it shouldn't be cost prohibitive compared to Portland (where they will be flying out of). But you can never question a team who doesn't have the desire or the financial means to get to Walla Walla. Closest you can get is Pasco (more expensive flight with limited departure/arrival times) and then you still have to bus an hour. But I agree with you on this one. Would have been great to see how they match up with the clear #1/favorite in d3
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 19, 2015, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 19, 2015, 08:50:47 PM
I shudder to think where the Clemson football team would be ranked this year if pollsters and the playoff committee took historical data from the past 10-15 years into account. As if the performance of completely different players have any bearing on the success or projected success of a current team's roster...

I'm at a loss for words.  Which, I know, seems odd.  Somehow Rat et al., you manage to miss the point completely.  It really astounds me.  It makes me think you're doing it on purpose.  But from what you're posting above, you clearly don't understand the point here.  Here goes for the last time:  Clemson plays in a nationally distinguished conference.  Teams from their conference win national titles.  For example, Florida State.  Clemson plays and beats nationally ranked competition.  For example, Notre Dame.  Our conference, the NWC, has never...ever...ever....competed for a national title, nor do we beat nationally ranked teams.  Therefore, I find it hard to rank our team #2 in the country, when in the history of our conference, we have never won the title, never been the runner-up, and unless someone has other info, been in the final 4 one time, 15 years ago.  (Please save the "this isn't football" and "this isn't D1" arguments.  We danced that dance last year.  I believe the example above, using Rat's analogy, properly illustrates the message I am trying to convey.) 

I am a fan of this conference, I want to be ranked #2, I just dont think we've shown we deserve it.  Really trying to move on from this argument, and I may have found the perfect segway... 

Quote from: (509)Rat on December 19, 2015, 08:50:47 PM
I think it's fair to question why Whitworth couldn't get Augustana to Spokane...But I agree with you on this one.
Dun-Dun-Duuun!  I've always liked you, Rat.

I don't know the ins-and-outs.  Maybe there's another reason, like a last minute schedule change or something.  BUT it kinda looks to me like someone is dodging someone.  Either both the Whits dodging Augustana, or vice versa.  And WMN is harder to get to, but that seems like a minor detail.  Could have flown into Spokane, played WW on Friday, drove out to WMN on Saturday, played on Sunday, drove back to Spokane after the game and flown out.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 20, 2015, 09:01:19 PM
No, I get it. Clemson gets credit because Jameis Winston won a national championship at Florida State and they happen to play in the same conference. And polls, which are compromised of a group of voters who are supposed to evaluate current (if not future) outcomes/success, should instead take into account not only an individual team's historical success but also the success of other teams in their conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on December 20, 2015, 09:11:40 PM
" Clemson plays in a nationally distinguished conference.  Teams from their conference win national titles.  For example, Florida State.  Clemson plays and beats nationally ranked competition.  For example, Notre Dame.  Our conference, the NWC, has never...ever...ever....competed for a national title, nor do we beat nationally ranked teams.  Therefore, I find it hard to rank our team #2 in the country, when in the history of our conference, we have never won the title..."

So if I'm understanding your point blackhawks4, your issue is not understanding how anyone from this conference could #2 based on the conference's overall record on the national level.  In other words, you would be equally as flummoxed should Whitman be the one with the #2 ranking.  Have I got that correct?

It's truly an honest question.  And if that is indeed your point I get what you're saying; past performance would appear to influence most national rankings especially early in the season. Your point might get lost in translation because it often sounds like your point is to merely take a jab at Whitworth and not the conference as a whole.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 26, 2015, 01:08:58 PM
Sorry to change the topic from Clemson back to basketball, but I enjoyed this article about the Gonzaga and Whitworth basketball success in Spokane. http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/basketball/whitworth-finds-its-niche-playing-gonzagas-shadow
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 26, 2015, 07:46:09 PM
Just an FYI - I believe I did ask Giovanine and Logie on different Hoopsville interviews why they couldn't get that game scheduled (somewhat tongue-in-cheek)... both indicated they looked at it or there was some conversations, but it wasn't something either could make work. It happens more than you realize in Division III... what seems obvious on paper and a map is no where close to obvious when it come down to it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 29, 2015, 12:14:50 AM
I was hoping to stay with Clemson a post or two longer.
I saw some of MaxPreps H.S. tournament in Rancho Mirage, CA.
Watch the next 2 days on your internet.
Chino Hills, CA, has 4 family members committed to UCLA, one's a freshman.
3s and D.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 29, 2015, 06:22:17 PM
Whoa! Les Schwab Invitational (Hillsboro) going on 26-30 has DeMatha, Oak Hill Academy, and Garfield (Seattle)!
Lemme know if there's any d3 talent there.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 29, 2015, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 19, 2015, 11:44:05 PMTherefore, I find it hard to rank our team #2 in the country, when in the history of our conference, we have never won the title, never been the runner-up, and unless someone has other info, been in the final 4 one time, 15 years ago.

??? ??? ???

No NWC team has ever reached the D3 Final Four. Fifteen years ago? In 2000 the Final Four consisted of Calvin, UW-Eau Claire, Salem State, and Franklin & Marshall. In 2001 the Final Four consisted of Catholic, William Paterson, Illinois Wesleyan, and Ohio Northern.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 30, 2015, 08:23:09 AM
Good win for Whitworth on a neutral court. Didn't get to see any of it unfortunately. Would be interested to hear what the d3 guys thought of both teams seeing them in person.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 30, 2015, 01:09:53 PM
They think Whitworth belongs where they are until they fall.

I actually watched it on the web. The game got tied with about six (?) minutes left and then several WW team members combined to pull away.

BUT! could have blown it all there at the end.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on December 30, 2015, 08:52:21 PM
Well, Whitworth beat two mediocre teams and didn't win either in convincing fashion. Again, I think this is a top 15 team, but certainly not a top five team. However, these were classic games under Logie: the Bucs won a grind-it-out affair thanks to their defense and a few timely shots. Whitworth will get its first real test on Jan. 5 when they host Whitman. Should be a good game!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 31, 2015, 02:39:53 PM
It was almost safe to say this upcoming game was the first real test for both Whitworth and Whitman...but the Missionaries lost to the first "good" team they played, Tufts certainly isn't a world beater though.

I think Whitworths results are somewhat a product of the system/style they play. They certainly have the talent to hang with anyone, but I think the #2 team in the nation needs to be capable of putting away teams once they get up by double digits in the second half.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 31, 2015, 05:24:07 PM
I would not, by any definition, call Calvin mediocre. Do they have a below .500 record? Yes. But I can name you a few hundred teams who would kill to have that record and that schedule. Is their season below Calvin standards? Sure. But I again can name you a few hundred teams who would love to be in Calvin's shoes right now.

Whitworth may not have blown the socks off their opponents this week in Vegas, but they still got the job done against a very good, though missing some reserve pieces, Calvin squad and a tenacious and improving Mary Hardin-Baylor team. They saw two very different styles, coaching philosophies, etc., and adjusted to those in less than 24 hours to win both games. It is hard to win games in these formats on the road especially at a tournament like the D3hoops.com Classic. Many coaches will tell you being 1-1 in those events is pretty good. 2-0 doesn't happen all that often at large events and Whitworth was one of just three (?) teams to do it out of the 15 who were on hand in Vegas (St. Vincent went 2-1 in a rare 3-game schedule).

I am quite comfortable with Whitworth in my top five (they will fluctuate along with every one else I suspect for the rest of the season). When the conversation about the Pirates starts with Kenny Love and he isn't even the team's leading scorer, that says a lot for the program. That starting five is very talented and they have a dangerous player in all five positions on the floor. I will say Sears would be the only one with a bit of a downside as he struggles to move latterly and Green for UMHB exposed him when attacking the rim. However, Whitworth has what many wish they had: depth on the bench in nearly all five positions. They didn't play Love all that much in the game against UMHB and had plenty of others step up when needed. Can they make a run to Salem? Sure, but that also really depends on how the bracket will be set-up. If they have Augustana in their way... the mountain is going to shaped like Everest. If they have a different bracket set-up and maybe even get lucky with hosting the second weekend (doubtful, but crazier things have happened), I think their chances are some of the best this program has seen. What really makes them scary is how many pieces of this team return (on paper) next season.

I was pleasantly surprised with PLU. I didn't know what to expect from the Lutes coming in. I saw the record, saw how they had improved over the last few seasons, but also understood their schedule left a lot of be desired. They held their own very well. They also went 2-0 and beat that tenacious UMHB team (who played them tough and played three games in four days). They also got a win over an under-appreciated UW-Stout team. No, the Blue Devils are not going to be in a position to win the WIAC, but the bottom of the WIAC is far better than the middle, even the top, of many conferences in Division III. Again, PLU saw two very different styles and teams and did a very nice job handling the adjustments. I love their size inside and I think their guard play is probably the best they have had in a long time. Coach Dickerson is certainly a serious man, but he has this team well prepared. I think PLU may be the surprise of the season and don't be shocked to see them in the NCAA tournament this season. I will actually seriously consider them for the Top 25 after watching them this week in Vegas.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 31, 2015, 07:32:49 PM
Quote from: PirateDaddy on December 20, 2015, 09:11:40 PM
So if I'm understanding your point blackhawks4, your issue is not understanding how anyone from this conference could #2 based on the conference's overall record on the national level.  In other words, you would be equally as flummoxed should Whitman be the one with the #2 ranking.  Have I got that correct?

It's truly an honest question.  And if that is indeed your point I get what you're saying; past performance would appear to influence most national rankings especially early in the season. Your point might get lost in translation because it often sounds like your point is to merely take a jab at Whitworth and not the conference as a whole.

Your statement above is 100% correct.  Not a jab at WW.   Now, in full disclosure, if it were Whitman ranked that high, I obviously wouldn't be as vocal about it.  But, the facts over the last however many years are what the facts are.

Sidenote:  I actually DO like the job that Logie has done.  He hasn't advanced the team past where they were when he inherited (elite 8), but there's something to be said for being the top dog on the block and staying there--when you have a huge target on your back.  IMO he's also filling pretty big shoes (Hayford).

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 26, 2015, 07:46:09 PM
Just an FYI - I believe I did ask Giovanine and Logie on different Hoopsville interviews why they couldn't get that game scheduled (somewhat tongue-in-cheek)... both indicated they looked at it or there was some conversations, but it wasn't something either could make work. It happens more than you realize in Division III... what seems obvious on paper and a map is no where close to obvious when it come down to it.

Nice work, McHugh!  Can't believe a game wasn't scheduled with the Whits.  There's really no excuse.  What seems obvious on paper...is really not that obvious when coaches are trying to build resumes??  Look, I've never made a schedule before, but I know that when really important things come up in my work life, and I'm notified months in advance, often times i can re-arrange.  So, I'm finding it hard to believe that when the question is asked, "Hey you want to play next year?"..that the details can't be worked out.  BS.

Quote from: (509)Rat on December 31, 2015, 02:39:53 PM
It was almost safe to say this upcoming game was the first real test for both Whitworth and Whitman...but the Missionaries lost to the first "good" team they played, Tufts certainly isn't a world beater though.

I think Whitworths results are somewhat a product of the system/style they play. They certainly have the talent to hang with anyone, but I think the #2 team in the nation needs to be capable of putting away teams once they get up by double digits in the second half.

Agree, Rat.  Disappointing loss.  Tufts looks to be a top 25'er though (just based off of W's and L's)

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 31, 2015, 05:24:07 PM
I would not, by any definition, call Calvin mediocre. Do they have a below .500 record? Yes. But I can name you a few hundred teams who would kill to have that record and that schedule. Is their season below Calvin standards? Sure. But I again can name you a few hundred teams who would love to be in Calvin's shoes right now.

Whitworth may not have blown the socks off their opponents this week in Vegas, but they still got the job done against a very good, though missing some reserve pieces, Calvin squad and a tenacious and improving Mary Hardin-Baylor team. They saw two very different styles, coaching philosophies, etc., and adjusted to those in less than 24 hours to win both games. It is hard to win games in these formats on the road especially at a tournament like the D3hoops.com Classic. Many coaches will tell you being 1-1 in those events is pretty good. 2-0 doesn't happen all that often at large events and Whitworth was one of just three (?) teams to do it out of the 15 who were on hand in Vegas (St. Vincent went 2-1 in a rare 3-game schedule).

McHugh, I'm perplexed.  Why cant we just call a spade, a spade?  PLU & WW went 2-0 and beat bad teams.  They did what they should have done.  Listen I liked that they scheduled the games, just bummer that both Calvin and MH are down this year (and Stout for what its worth).  But why the need to defend WW??  They haven't beaten anybody.

Jan. 5 should be a war. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 31, 2015, 08:34:04 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 31, 2015, 07:32:49 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 26, 2015, 07:46:09 PM
Just an FYI - I believe I did ask Giovanine and Logie on different Hoopsville interviews why they couldn't get that game scheduled (somewhat tongue-in-cheek)... both indicated they looked at it or there was some conversations, but it wasn't something either could make work. It happens more than you realize in Division III... what seems obvious on paper and a map is no where close to obvious when it come down to it.

Nice work, McHugh!  Can't believe a game wasn't scheduled with the Whits.  There's really no excuse.  What seems obvious on paper...is really not that obvious when coaches are trying to build resumes??  Look, I've never made a schedule before, but I know that when really important things come up in my work life, and I'm notified months in advance, often times i can re-arrange.  So, I'm finding it hard to believe that when the question is asked, "Hey you want to play next year?"..that the details can't be worked out.  BS.

I completely disagree. I've talked to enough coaches about scheduling to know just how hard it can be to fit in a specific date against a specific opponent. And those problems are compounded when it's a long-distance trip that involves air travel and hotel stays. And the fact that Augie's trip took place over winter break doesn't necessarily make it any easier, because the NCAA mandates seven off days (no practices, no games) during the season, and a large percentage of D3 coaches annually plan for those off days to fall right around Christmas, for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 01, 2016, 12:40:57 PM
Quote
I completely disagree. I've talked to enough coaches about scheduling to know just how hard it can be to fit in a specific date against a specific opponent. And those problems are compounded when it's a long-distance trip that involves air travel and hotel stays. And the fact that Augie's trip took place over winter break doesn't necessarily make it any easier, because the NCAA mandates seven off days (no practices, no games) during the season, and a large percentage of D3 coaches annually plan for those off days to fall right around Christmas, for obvious reasons.

I'm not suggesting its "easy" to schedule games at specific locations at specific times, but it's not like this is FBS football where ADs are scheduling home and homes for the year 2020. You can argue that it would have been cost prohibitive for Augustana to fly to Spokane and get 2 games instead of Seattle/Portland to get 3. But winter break, Whitworth/Whitman obligations, etc just don't hold any water this year. Both Whits were sitting at home with plenty of time to get their days off in. Now neither Whit nor Augie knew they would be ranked 1-2 even a year ago, but Whitworth and Whitman should be thinking about scheduling WIAC, CCIW, MIAA opponents before Millsaps if they aren't already. Can't speak for Whitman but Whitworth has the $ to travel, even if things dried up a bit after Hayford left...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 02, 2016, 12:03:28 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 01, 2016, 12:40:57 PM
Quote
I completely disagree. I've talked to enough coaches about scheduling to know just how hard it can be to fit in a specific date against a specific opponent. And those problems are compounded when it's a long-distance trip that involves air travel and hotel stays. And the fact that Augie's trip took place over winter break doesn't necessarily make it any easier, because the NCAA mandates seven off days (no practices, no games) during the season, and a large percentage of D3 coaches annually plan for those off days to fall right around Christmas, for obvious reasons.

I'm not suggesting its "easy" to schedule games at specific locations at specific times, but it's not like this is FBS football where ADs are scheduling home and homes for the year 2020. You can argue that it would have been cost prohibitive for Augustana to fly to Spokane and get 2 games instead of Seattle/Portland to get 3.

I haven't asked any of the Augie insiders that I know about the scheduling rationale behind the recent PNW trip of the Rock Islanders. But I suspect that the geographical situation to which you allude is a possible contender for the primary reason why it was scheduled the way it was. Seattle and Portland offered multiple options for three games, because the vast majority of NWC teams are located within an hour's busride of those two cities. Spokane and Walla Walla didn't -- and if you tried Seattle and Spokane or Portland and Spokane, then you're talking about either more flights or extremely long bus trips. Mind you, I'm not saying that it's definitely the reason why Grey Giovanine scheduled the trip the way that he did; as I said, I don't know what the definite reason is. But it's a logical explanation.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 01, 2016, 12:40:57 PMBut winter break, Whitworth/Whitman obligations, etc just don't hold any water this year. Both Whits were sitting at home with plenty of time to get their days off in.

Are you certain of that? Do you know for a fact when the Whitworth and Whitman programs each elected to get in their off days this season?

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 01, 2016, 12:40:57 PMNow neither Whit nor Augie knew they would be ranked 1-2 even a year ago, but Whitworth and Whitman should be thinking about scheduling WIAC, CCIW, MIAA opponents before Millsaps if they aren't already. Can't speak for Whitman but Whitworth has the $ to travel, even if things dried up a bit after Hayford left...

That's another matter entirely, of course. I've had the you-West-Coasters-need-to-travel conversation before in the SCIAC room, where my suggestion wasn't well-received. I get the feeling, though, that NWC fans are more aware of what it takes to get to the next level in March than are their SCIAC counterparts, probably because it's the NWC teams that win that West Coast pod every year and advance off the D3 island to the D3 mainland. (Also, the SCIAC's got the warm weather that will always attract snowbird teams that have the bucks to fly to Cali and get winter suntans, so why should they worry about traveling? Such is their reasoning.) An ambitious NWC coach who can get the money together for such a trip could fly into Chicago or Cleveland or the Twin Cities, pick up three really good opponents over a four- or five-day stay, and both get a feel for how midwestern D3 hoops is played and possibly burnish his team's Pool C credentials.

I saw Whitworth play in Wheaton's season-opening tourney back in 2006-07, and really enjoyed it. That was a very good Pirates team. NWC teams should definitely do that sort of thing more often if they have both the desire and the resources to make their programs nationally competitive.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 02, 2016, 03:29:47 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 31, 2015, 07:32:49 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 31, 2015, 05:24:07 PM
I would not, by any definition, call Calvin mediocre. Do they have a below .500 record? Yes. But I can name you a few hundred teams who would kill to have that record and that schedule. Is their season below Calvin standards? Sure. But I again can name you a few hundred teams who would love to be in Calvin's shoes right now.

Whitworth may not have blown the socks off their opponents this week in Vegas, but they still got the job done against a very good, though missing some reserve pieces, Calvin squad and a tenacious and improving Mary Hardin-Baylor team. They saw two very different styles, coaching philosophies, etc., and adjusted to those in less than 24 hours to win both games. It is hard to win games in these formats on the road especially at a tournament like the D3hoops.com Classic. Many coaches will tell you being 1-1 in those events is pretty good. 2-0 doesn't happen all that often at large events and Whitworth was one of just three (?) teams to do it out of the 15 who were on hand in Vegas (St. Vincent went 2-1 in a rare 3-game schedule).

McHugh, I'm perplexed.  Why cant we just call a spade, a spade?  PLU & WW went 2-0 and beat bad teams.  They did what they should have done.  Listen I liked that they scheduled the games, just bummer that both Calvin and MH are down this year (and Stout for what its worth).  But why the need to defend WW??  They haven't beaten anybody.

Jan. 5 should be a war.

I am not sure what you are perplexed about. I sat in an arena for four days and watch sixteen basketball games. Calvin is NOT a bad team. You look at their record and see them below .500 (at 5-6, by the way), but I would argue there are a few hundred teams in this country who would LOVE to be where Calvin is with that schedule. Those several hundered would love to have just one or two of the talent on Calvin's squad. Are they down this year by the standards we are used to? Yes, but they are not a bad team. Of course, I'm saying that having seen them in person. You are saying that sitting in your house admittedly trying to find ways to ding Whitworth for their success while you admit you wouldn't do it for Whitman (your alma mater, right?).

Has Whitworth "beaten anybody?" On paper, probably not. In person, I would argue they beat a pretty good Calvin squad (who will be competing, I suspect, for 2-4 in the MIAA) and a difficult, especially match-up wise, UMHB squad (who will also be in the upper half or third of their conference). Maybe they have more to prove for yourself, but I love the talent they have both on the floor and on the bench and I think they are a legit squad this year. But my opinion can change. They lose five games, I won't have them #2 on my ballot - that's why from now on we vote every week.

By the way, I am not defending Whitworth... I am presenting to you why I don't agree with you.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 04, 2016, 04:23:22 PM
All this talk about where WW should be ranked, are they legit, why don't they play better teams, etc. is getting tedious. Let's get some info on this board. Was glad to hear from McHugh that he thinks PLU's record is legit and that they are playing well. However, does anybody know why?  It doesn't look like they have any great additions to their roster.  Is it just guys getting older and playing better?  Can we get a report from PLU land?

Pacific has some decent wins and the losses have been to legit teams.  Will they finish in the top 4?

How is UPS looking this year?  Will they compete for a playoff spot or will they be the best of the rest?

What happened to LC?  Are they really going to finish in the bottom half of the league? 

LF and Willamette--these programs used to compete at the top of the league. What is going on?

Exactly how bad is Portland Bible and why do NWC like beating them up so much?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 12:16:50 AM
Whitworth up 54-46 at the half
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:24:39 AM
Solid win by WW. Love this team. Very deep and quick.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 06, 2016, 01:58:50 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:24:39 AM
Solid win by WW. Love this team. Very deep and quick.

Yeah Logie could just rotate guards through to keep them fresh throughout the game. WW has 4 guards who would start for any team in the conference--and most D3 teams nationally (Love, Staudacher, Grant & Roach). Really nice weapon when facing a team that presses so much, plus Valle and Julian can handle the ball too. WW is too disciplined and veteran to turn the ball over a ton vs. the press (only had 11 TO's tonight). A big team that can push them around inside is the team that will beat WW. These teams meet back up February 2. Should be a good one in W2. Last year WW laid an egg down there, hopefully they come to play this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 06:07:27 AM
Whitman probably played their best game all year. Statistically, the biggest difference in this game is that a higher % of Whitworth's shots were from 3 and of those, they converted at a higher %. A small edge on the boards, and more assists were about the only other major categories that Whitworth led. Whitman's bench even scored more points than Whitworth's which was probably the most surprising to me since I thought the back-up Whitworth guards made a much bigger impact than anyone subbing in for the Missionaries.

The headline should read "Whitman plays best game of season and still can't beat Pirates."

We won't know what Logie could have built from scratch, but you can't ask for much more. He continues to out-coach Bridgeland and that's all he has to do in this league. Anyone else remember those idiot UPS fans who tried to convince themselves and everyone else that Lunt was fantastic and they weren't winning only because they had Bridgeland's players? Where did they all go?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 06, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
The question for Blackhawks is this:

Did Whitworth beat a team making us worthy of our #2 ranking?  Or just beat the team he loves?

Whitman is a good team, and I foresee them A) ranked and B) in the Conf Tourney and C) probably an at-large at the end, so don't worry be happy !

It was a fun trip to Vegas last week as well  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:29:08 PM
Rat and other long time observers of NWC basketball,

Are these the two most talented teams in the conference at the same time since it went D3?  I did not see UPS in the Chase Curtis days and I know WW and LC had some good teams then.  The current WM is very athletic and fun to watch. Like Pinecone says, we have 4 guards that would start on any team in the country and I think Sears is under-appreciated--and that is not even talking about Valle and Jurlina. I thought it was a great game last night. Looking forward to the rematch.

To give you some perspective on Roach, my younger son's friend did not start on Roach's AAU team. He's averaging 18 for Pomona Pitzer. 


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:29:08 PM
Rat and other long time observers of NWC basketball,

Are these the two most talented teams in the conference at the same time since it went D3?  I did not see UPS in the Chase Curtis days and I know WW and LC had some good teams then.  The current WM is very athletic and fun to watch. Like Pinecone says, we have 4 guards that would start on any team in the country and I think Sears is under-appreciated--and that is not even talking about Valle and Jurlina. I thought it was a great game last night. Looking forward to the rematch.

To give you some perspective on Roach, my younger son's friend did not start on Roach's AAU team. He's averaging 18 for Pomona Pitzer. 

I think the 03-04, 05-06 and 08-09 UPS teams are up there (we all know 03-04 was the best right Blackhawks?), and I still don't know if the Michael Taylor team that lost to Wooster wasn't the best team Whitworth has had, ever (just went cold against a very good team, on their home court, at the wrong time). I certainly think this is Whitman's best team since Bridgeland got there. He might not have anyone as good as David Michaels, but as a whole I think they are much better. I think this is Logie's best team as well, with 2011-12 (Lasisi and Friedt's last season) being the main competition. Overall gaurd play is better this year, they have forwards that match up with Loofburrow limiting his effectiveness from 3 IMO, and Sears could at least body Felix which no other team was able to do anytime I saw him play in his last 2 seasons.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 06, 2016, 03:29:17 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:29:08 PM
Rat and other long time observers of NWC basketball,

Are these the two most talented teams in the conference at the same time since it went D3?  I did not see UPS in the Chase Curtis days and I know WW and LC had some good teams then.  The current WM is very athletic and fun to watch. Like Pinecone says, we have 4 guards that would start on any team in the country and I think Sears is under-appreciated--and that is not even talking about Valle and Jurlina. I thought it was a great game last night. Looking forward to the rematch.

To give you some perspective on Roach, my younger son's friend did not start on Roach's AAU team. He's averaging 18 for Pomona Pitzer. 

I think the 03-04, 05-06 and 08-09 UPS teams are up there (we all know 03-04 was the best right Blackhawks?), and I still don't know if the Michael Taylor team that lost to Wooster wasn't the best team Whitworth has had, ever (just went cold against a very good team, on their home court, at the wrong time). I certainly think this is Whitman's best team since Bridgeland got there. He might not have anyone as good as David Michaels, but as a whole I think they are much better. I think this is Logie's best team as well, with 2011-12 (Lasisi and Friedt's last season) being the main competition. Overall gaurd play is better this year, they have forwards that match up with Loofburrow limiting his effectiveness from 3 IMO, and Sears could at least body Felix which no other team was able to do anytime I saw him play in his last 2 seasons.

No question 10-11 was WW's best team in the D3 era, but two best in the NWC at the same time? This year is right up there with 05-06 IMO. Some of those UPS teams with Antwan Williams, Zach McVey, Chase Curtiss & Jason Foster were so tough, but WW had a pretty solid team at the time too (Williams (future league MVP)/Pecht (the league MVP)/Jones/Young).

On a different note, I wish there were some Pacific and PLU posters here. Pac might be a bit of a let-down game for both Whits, and they've looked pretty good this year. It wouldn't totally surprise me if PAC knocks off one of the Whits this weekend. PLU is also bringing some heat early this season--what's up with them?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: TryMeTeam on January 06, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:29:08 PM

On a different note, I wish there were some Pacific and PLU posters here. Pac might be a bit of a let-down game for both Whits, and they've looked pretty good this year. It wouldn't totally surprise me if PAC knocks off one of the Whits this weekend. PLU is also bringing some heat early this season--what's up with them?

Been watching and reading for some time, but not much to report on from my OR teams.  With all the talk dominating on the Whits, it is pretty boring for an OR fan. 

LF, GF and Will, well, they are pretty boring too, going a combined 11-21 and 0-6 in league.  Enough said.

LC is definitely down, but I am not ready to count them out yet.  They have struggled getting to figure their team out after the loss of key players, but are ready to make some noise.  I see them as a possible challenger for the 4th spot if they can get going soon.

Pac is probably the most improved team in the league this year.  I have only seen them once live and once on the net, but they now have an inside presence (lacking for the last...ever), actually looking to get the ball inside.  Their guards are much more athletic and they are fun to watch. 

LC is down, Pac is unproven, kind of hard to get on here and spar with you guys!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 09:05:50 PM
TMT,

Good to hear from you. I agree it's sad how low the Oregon schools have sunk lately.  Not sure what is going on.  I agree with what Playball says about LF, they don't seem to be recruiting players that can compete in the NWC.  Hopefully the league gets a little more balanced in the next few years.  It used to be almost impossible for WW to win all their road games in Oregon.  Now the Oregon schools can't beat WW even with the 5 on 8 advantage.  ;D





Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2016, 09:39:47 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 06:07:27 AM
The headline should read "Whitman plays best game of season and still can't beat Pirates."

Haha...keep 'em above the belt, Rat.  Anytime you allow a team to shoot 57% from the floor, its NOT your best game.  By the way, WW deserved to shoot every bit of 57% from the floor (I actually think I made the exact same statement last year).  WW took the free buckets (layups and wide open jumpers) when WMN tried to force tempo, when WMN was in zone--it was just ugly, and when WMN tried to play man-to-man, WW was patient until WMN made a mistake.   WMN plays a high risk/high reward game, and I thought that played into WW's strength.  WW is composed and hard to rattle.  They were patient and let WMN's defense beat themselves.  57%.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 06:07:27 AM
We won't know what Logie could have built from scratch, but you can't ask for much more. He continues to out-coach Bridgeland and that's all he has to do in this league.

Logie is impressive.  Very impressive.  His team plays with such discipline.  But he needs to take this team to the Elite 8, and dare I say the Final 4 before the major kudos come.

It took Bridgeland only 3 years at UPS to win the conference, and I don't think anybody on the board thought it would take Bridgeland 6 to still be chasing his first...but he also is taking what used to be the laughing stock of the NWC to from worst to well...2nd for the last 3 or 4 years.

Best teams in NWC in recent memory--I think you have to say the Scott Davis L & C teams (I think '00--thought they were final 4 but maybe elite 8), UPS Bridgeland led elite 8 team (i think it was Curtiss, McVey, Williams--i think they beat D1 Riverside that year too???), & Michael Taylor WW team.

Quote from: 89Pirate on January 06, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
The question for Blackhawks is this:

Did Whitworth beat a team making us worthy of our #2 ranking?  Or just beat the team he loves?

Pirate, we can't beat the horse anymore.  No.  They are not worthy of #2.  They beat WMN, a top 25 team.  Segway, this is a good Whitworth team (better than the last few years).  They have 3 first-teamers, but I truthfully do think they lack "star-power."  Don't get me wrong, all 3 of them are solid...very solid. The whole team is solid.  I just worry about their ability to beat somebody who doesn't make mistakes, like the midwest/east coast, big grind it out teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2016, 11:01:50 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 02, 2016, 12:03:28 PM
An ambitious NWC coach who can get the money together for such a trip could fly into Chicago or Cleveland or the Twin Cities, pick up three really good opponents over a four- or five-day stay, and both get a feel for how midwestern D3 hoops is played and possibly burnish his team's Pool C credentials.

Sometimes I really wonder what this board would do without the amazing ideas I throw out, but this one might take the cake.  How about we make Whitworth play their game at Whitman, but then we just give them 12 wins for the rest of their conference games??  Lets face it, nobody else has a chance.  All the travel money saved by WW not playing goes into a GoFundMe account, which can be utilized for a Whitman/Whitworth road trip to Wisconsin and somewhere back east next year.  With his free time, Logie can start scheduling the games now.

Big Remaining Questions
1.  Will WW go undefeated? My gut says I think it benefits them to lose at WMN.  Just, in the event that you believe in statistics, if these two teams line up 3 times, are the odds there that they win all 3?
2.  Can WMN  run the table? Or, will somebody get them?  Whitman hasn't established that consistent untouchable dominance on a night-in-night-out basis like WW has.  But in my opinion, WMN has to run the table to get a share of the title.
3.  PLU? I'm confused.

Lastly, while fresh in everyone's mind, how about the Whitman players? McDonald in my opinion is the best scorer in the league.  If I need a bucket, he's the guy I would want with the ball.  I am mystified that he only took 6 shots against WW? 

Tim Howell is looking like a first teamer.  Evan Martin is consistent.

Whitman also has a freshman, Austin Butler, who fills up the stat sheet.  He is hands-down the best individual defender I have seen in recent years.  He locks up offensive players. Great rebounder too.  He's a triple-double threat--as a 6'3" guard
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 07, 2016, 01:29:39 AM
Hang Fire...

You've just gotta see this H.S. team somehow this season while the brothers are on the same team.

http://usatodayhss.com/2016/chino-hills-takes-over-top-spot-oak-hill-moves-to-no-2-in-new-super-25-boys-basketball-rankings
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 07, 2016, 01:53:57 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2016, 11:01:50 PM
Sometimes I really wonder what this board would do without the amazing ideas I throw out, but this one might take the cake.  How about we make Whitworth play their game at Whitman, but then we just give them 12 wins for the rest of their conference games??  Lets face it, nobody else has a chance.  All the travel money saved by WW not playing goes into a GoFundMe account, which can be utilized for a Whitman/Whitworth road trip to Wisconsin and somewhere back east next year.  With his free time, Logie can start scheduling the games now.

Big Remaining Questions
1.  Will WW go undefeated? My gut says I think it benefits them to lose at WMN.  Just, in the event that you believe in statistics, if these two teams line up 3 times, are the odds there that they win all 3?
2.  Can WMN  run the table? Or, will somebody get them?  Whitman hasn't established that consistent untouchable dominance on a night-in-night-out basis like WW has.  But in my opinion, WMN has to run the table to get a share of the title.
3.  PLU? I'm confused.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2016, 09:39:47 PM
By the way, WW deserved to shoot every bit of 57% from the floor (I actually think I made the exact same statement last year).  WW took the free buckets (layups and wide open jumpers) when WMN tried to force tempo, when WMN was in zone--it was just ugly, and when WMN tried to play man-to-man, WW was patient until WMN made a mistake.   WMN plays a high risk/high reward game, and I thought that played into WW's strength.  WW is composed and hard to rattle.  They were patient and let WMN's defense beat themselves.  57%.

Logie is impressive.  Very impressive.  His team plays with such discipline.

Unlike WW against WM, I think I'm a little bit rattled. Blackhawk made a lot of sense tonight in just about everything he posted. What gives?  ;D

Seriously though, Blackhawks Big Remaining Questions are pretty accurate, as is his analysis of the WW vs. WM game. In some ways, WM's style plays right into WW. It takes a disciplined team to beat the press, and WW is the only night-in and night-out disciplined team in the league. In fact, I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 TO's due to the pressure last night.

I actually disagree that this is Bridge's best team in W2. Maybe it was just an off night, but WM never really seemed to threaten the Pirates. WW had a pretty comfortable lead all game except for that one run early in the 2nd half. Even when WM tied it, WW then went on a big run to cruise the rest of the way.

WM lays an egg every year somewhere unexpected, so PLU has to be the favorite for that this year right? Meanwhile it's hard to see any team in the NWC beating WW (except maybe @WM) because even when WW doesn't shoot well, they always are tough on the defensive end.

It would be great to see the Whits travel back to the midwest to take on some of those powers. There are direct flights from Spokane to Chicago, and a bunch of great teams are within 3 hours from Chicago (Calvin, Hope, Benedictine, Trine, Augustana, Elmhurst, and Chicago). Why not set up a little yearly tournament where one year WW & WM go to play 2 or 3 of those schools, then in the odd years those schools reciprocate? This almost seems too easy.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 12:14:21 PM
Blackhawks is right about "style" contributing to Whitworth's success over Whtmn. You see it every year and we talk about it every year, when Whitman has better results early in the season against the same opponents and someone (usually Blackhawks) says, "THIS is the year Whitman knocks off Whitworth, see, look at how much worse they beat team X or team Y." And then someone else comes on and reminds everyone that Whitman's style often exposes weaker teams leading to bigger point differentials...in fact, here is a post from Nov 30, 2014...

Quote from: (509)Rat on November 30, 2014, 11:37:37 amWhitman plays a style that exposes teams with lesser talent and over the past several years has given their players and fans a lot of confidence going in to the NWC season. They look at the box scores of games Whitworth has with common opponents and come to the same conclusion that blackhawks is right now. We beat team A by more points than Whitworth did, therefore we are better than Whitworth. Then the season plays out and Whitworth is again on top of the conference and in the national tourney. Maybe it will be different this year...wouldn't hold my breath.

Pac gets the Whits this weekend. Still not sure what all the fuss is about over the Boxers. They beat the worst team in the MIAC (who also lost to Willamette) and Occidental (who also lost to Willamette and Caltech), lost to La Verne and Redlands...They may very well be better and they can be tough at home, but I don't see them winning either game this weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2016, 12:24:42 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 12:14:21 PM
Pac gets the Whits this weekend. Still not sure what all the fuss is about over the Boxers. They beat the worst team in the MIAC (who also lost to Willamette) and Occidental (who also lost to Willamette and Caltech), lost to La Verne and Redlands...They may very well be better and they can be tough at home, but I don't see them winning either game this weekend.

I thought the fuss was over Pac Lutheran more than Pac.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 12:14:21 PM
Blackhawks is right about "style" contributing to Whitworth's success over Whtmn. You see it every year and we talk about it every year, when Whitman has better results early in the season against the same opponents and someone (usually Blackhawks) says, "THIS is the year Whitman knocks off Whitworth, see, look at how much worse they beat team X or team Y." And then someone else comes on and reminds everyone that Whitman's style often exposes weaker teams leading to bigger point differentials...in fact, here is a post from Nov 30, 2014...

Quote from: (509)Rat on November 30, 2014, 11:37:37 amWhitman plays a style that exposes teams with lesser talent and over the past several years has given their players and fans a lot of confidence going in to the NWC season. They look at the box scores of games Whitworth has with common opponents and come to the same conclusion that blackhawks is right now. We beat team A by more points than Whitworth did, therefore we are better than Whitworth. Then the season plays out and Whitworth is again on top of the conference and in the national tourney. Maybe it will be different this year...wouldn't hold my breath.

This is pretty much the reason I don't subscribe, or lean on heavily, to two things when I vote in my Top 25 or try and extrapolate when looking at teams prepping for a game: head-to-head should trump all; Team A beat Team B, Team B beat Team C, thus Team A is better than Team C (based on no game). I plan to write more in a blog in the next few days or week on this, but your discussion here is a great point to why I don't buy into those logics all of the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 07, 2016, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 07, 2016, 01:53:57 AM

I actually disagree that this is Bridge's best team in W2. Maybe it was just an off night, but WM never really seemed to threaten the Pirates. WW had a pretty comfortable lead all game except for that one run early in the 2nd half. Even when WM tied it, WW then went on a big run to cruise the rest of the way.

WM lays an egg every year somewhere unexpected, so PLU has to be the favorite for that this year right? Meanwhile it's hard to see any team in the NWC beating WW (except maybe @WM) because even when WW doesn't shoot well, they always are tough on the defensive end.

It would be great to see the Whits travel back to the midwest to take on some of those powers. There are direct flights from Spokane to Chicago, and a bunch of great teams are within 3 hours from Chicago (Calvin, Hope, Benedictine, Trine, Augustana, Elmhurst, and Chicago). Why not set up a little yearly tournament where one year WW & WM go to play 2 or 3 of those schools, then in the odd years those schools reciprocate? This almost seems too easy.

Just a few comments on Pinecone's comments:

1.  This may well be WM's best team in awhile. WW was in control of the game because it is WW's best team in awhile. WW is good because they have a lot of off offensive firepower, but they win every night because they are great on defense and they hit the boards hard.
2.  No predicting which team will beat WM.  I agree every WM tends to lay an egg at least once a year. Every team does it.  The 2011 WW team laid a four minute egg in Walla Walla that resulted in the greatest moment in Whitman sports history (except for their mention in Sports Illustrated in 1976). 
3. WW can schedule all those teams next year and they might be crap.  The teams they scheduled this year, were a lot better in the recent past than are this year. I think it was Augustana that they played in the Bay area 6 or 7 years ago.  It was the year after Augustana had a deep run in the tournament.  WW destroyed a very pedestrian Augustana team in front of a raucous crowd that Hayford referred to as "the future residents of the Palo Alto Alcohol Rehab Center."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on January 07, 2016, 01:54:08 PM
Buc,

Just to clarify, Whitworth and Augustana have never played each other in men's basketball.  The school you are thinking of is Gustavus Adolphus. 

And wasn't it David's high school buddies who were most of that "raucous" crowd  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 07, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
Thanks for the correction.  I had the wrong team but the gist was correct. AG was a much better team the year before WW played them.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2016, 12:24:42 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 12:14:21 PM
Pac gets the Whits this weekend. Still not sure what all the fuss is about over the Boxers. They beat the worst team in the MIAC (who also lost to Willamette) and Occidental (who also lost to Willamette and Caltech), lost to La Verne and Redlands...They may very well be better and they can be tough at home, but I don't see them winning either game this weekend.

I thought the fuss was over Pac Lutheran more than Pac.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 12:14:21 PM
Blackhawks is right about "style" contributing to Whitworth's success over Whtmn. You see it every year and we talk about it every year, when Whitman has better results early in the season against the same opponents and someone (usually Blackhawks) says, "THIS is the year Whitman knocks off Whitworth, see, look at how much worse they beat team X or team Y." And then someone else comes on and reminds everyone that Whitman's style often exposes weaker teams leading to bigger point differentials...in fact, here is a post from Nov 30, 2014...

Quote from: (509)Rat on November 30, 2014, 11:37:37 amWhitman plays a style that exposes teams with lesser talent and over the past several years has given their players and fans a lot of confidence going in to the NWC season. They look at the box scores of games Whitworth has with common opponents and come to the same conclusion that blackhawks is right now. We beat team A by more points than Whitworth did, therefore we are better than Whitworth. Then the season plays out and Whitworth is again on top of the conference and in the national tourney. Maybe it will be different this year...wouldn't hold my breath.

This is pretty much the reason I don't subscribe, or lean on heavily, to two things when I vote in my Top 25 or try and extrapolate when looking at teams prepping for a game: head-to-head should trump all; Team A beat Team B, Team B beat Team C, thus Team A is better than Team C (based on no game). I plan to write more in a blog in the next few days or week on this, but your discussion here is a great point to why I don't buy into those logics all of the time.

The real question is what do you do with your next top 25 if everyone keeps winning in the top 5? Does Elmhurst move up to 1 for beating Augustana even though the rest of their schedule is even weaker than Whitworth's? Does Whitworth move up because they were #2 and didn't lose? Does Augustana stay #1 because you still believe they are the best team and aren't gonna punish em for losing on the road to a conference opponent who is ranked #5 in the country?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2016, 03:56:52 PM
Haha! You are the first to ask... and believe it or not, tune into Hoopsville tonight to hear what I am thinking right now. (I had to prerecord the show today due to another commitment, so I know I comment on this in the first block of the show. I would answer you right now, but I am running around to get things done before having to be at a game tonight. I can chat more after the show airs :).)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 07, 2016, 06:53:07 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 07, 2016, 01:53:57 AM
Unlike WW against WM, I think I'm a little bit rattled. Blackhawk made a lot of sense tonight in just about everything he posted. What gives?  ;D

Post that WW shouldn't be #2 in the nation, and you're the biggest idiot walking the planet.  Propose that all NWC teams forfeit their remaining games to Whitworth instead of playing them, and you're a genius.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PM
The real question is what do you do with your next top 25 if everyone keeps winning in the top 5? Does Elmhurst move up to 1 for beating Augustana even though the rest of their schedule is even weaker than Whitworth's?

??? Says who?

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PMDoes Whitworth move up because they were #2 and didn't lose? Does Augustana stay #1 because you still believe they are the best team and aren't gonna punish em for losing on the road by two points in overtime to a conference opponent who is ranked #5 in the country?

FTFY. ;)

Seriously, though, your last two questions are good ones.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 07, 2016, 09:21:47 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 07, 2016, 06:53:07 PM
Post that WW shouldn't be #2 in the nation, and you're the biggest idiot walking the planet.  Propose that all NWC teams forfeit their remaining games to Whitworth instead of playing them, and you're a genius.

FTR I've never disagreed about WW being too high. And I was talking more about your game analysis and your suggestion that the Whits go to the midwest instead of south. But if you want to go ahead and give WW wins the rest of the season, I won't argue  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2016, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PMDoes Whitworth move up because they were #2 and didn't lose? Does Augustana stay #1 because you still believe they are the best team and aren't gonna punish em for losing on the road by two points in overtime to a conference opponent who is ranked #5 in the country?

FTFY. ;)

Seriously, though, your last two questions are good ones.

Trust me... I was thinking about those two questions in the middle of last night's game (well not the outcome one, that certainly game later). I touched on it on Hoopsville tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on January 08, 2016, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2016, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PMDoes Whitworth move up because they were #2 and didn't lose? Does Augustana stay #1 because you still believe they are the best team and aren't gonna punish em for losing on the road by two points in overtime to a conference opponent who is ranked #5 in the country?

FTFY. ;)

Seriously, though, your last two questions are good ones.

Trust me... I was thinking about those two questions in the middle of last night's game (well not the outcome one, that certainly game later). I touched on it on Hoopsville tonight.
And, how far do you move Elmhurst up with win over #1 Augustana?  Is Elmhurst SOS better than #s 2-4 ?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2016, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on January 08, 2016, 05:39:17 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2016, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PMDoes Whitworth move up because they were #2 and didn't lose? Does Augustana stay #1 because you still believe they are the best team and aren't gonna punish em for losing on the road by two points in overtime to a conference opponent who is ranked #5 in the country?

FTFY. ;)

Seriously, though, your last two questions are good ones.

Trust me... I was thinking about those two questions in the middle of last night's game (well not the outcome one, that certainly game later). I touched on it on Hoopsville tonight.
And, how far do you move Elmhurst up with win over #1 Augustana?  Is Elmhurst SOS better than #s 2-4 ?

Well first... we have a few more days of basketball that could change a lot.

Secondly... I don't know. I have had it spinning in my head since the OT buzzer sounded. But that is why I state often that determining were teams fit in the poll is not just comparing them to one other team (i.e. Augustana to Elmhurst; Elmhurst to Benedictine). There are always numerous teams in play and that makes it very complicated. I was enjoying the fact my Top 5 or 6 was relatively stable. Now the entire Top 25 is wide open.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 09, 2016, 12:45:32 AM
Well, lookee there. WILDCATS hold on to steal one from the Knights in Mac.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 09, 2016, 12:45:44 AM
Great win for the 'Cats tonight over PLU. 53-51.  Linfield's frosh point Romeo led the way with for the 'Cats with 26.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 04:57:19 AM
PLU-Linfield had a halftime score of 18-16...enjoy your eastern Washington road trip...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PM
The real question is what do you do with your next top 25 if everyone keeps winning in the top 5? Does Elmhurst move up to 1 for beating Augustana even though the rest of their schedule is even weaker than Whitworth's?

??? Says who?

The record of the teams Whitworth had beat (d3 opponents against d3 competition) at the time of my post = 48-63

The record of the teams Elmhurst had beat (prior to Augustana as stated in my original post) = 41-70

Both had only beat 3 teams with winning records.

So yeah, Elmhurst had an even less impressive resume than Whitworth leading up to the Augustana win.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 02:20:52 PM
Whitworth beat Pacific 62-50. I suspect Whitman will have an easy time with the Boxers tonight. Valle scored 2 points on 1-13 shooting, but when you can hold a team to 50 points it doesn't really matter how cold one of your top scorers is that night. Willamette and George Fox next weekend...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on January 09, 2016, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 02:20:52 PM
I suspect Whitman will have an easy time with the Boxers tonight.

I am going to disagree with you Rat. I think Pacific will give Whitman problems tonight. The Boxers are extremely physical. If the refs let them play like they did last night, it could be interesting. Whitworth's composure played a big part in the win last night. They did not let what they could not control affect what they could.  I can see Whitman letting the physicality get to them. Should be interesting!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2016, 04:25:24 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PM
The real question is what do you do with your next top 25 if everyone keeps winning in the top 5? Does Elmhurst move up to 1 for beating Augustana even though the rest of their schedule is even weaker than Whitworth's?

??? Says who?

The record of the teams Whitworth had beat (d3 opponents against d3 competition) at the time of my post = 48-63

The record of the teams Elmhurst had beat (prior to Augustana as stated in my original post) = 41-70

Both had only beat 3 teams with winning records.

So yeah, Elmhurst had an even less impressive resume than Whitworth leading up to the Augustana win.

I'm not sure that you're tracking with my objection. In this sentence:

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 07, 2016, 03:54:42 PMDoes Elmhurst move up to 1 for beating Augustana even though the rest of their schedule is even weaker than Whitworth's?

... the words "rest of their schedule" seem to imply that you're referring to Elmhurst's remaining games, not EC's already played games, especially because you used the present tense verb "is" rather than the past tense verb "was'. And, while it would seem counterintuitive to base a Top 25 ballot upon what remains on the schedule rather than what's already been played, D-Mac has tipped his hand on Hoopsville that he bases his vote, in part, on conference strength. That's one of his arguments for not putting Benedictine above Elmhurst.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 05:18:53 PM
Quote from: HoopsCoachG on January 09, 2016, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 02:20:52 PM
I suspect Whitman will have an easy time with the Boxers tonight.

I am going to disagree with you Rat. I think Pacific will give Whitman problems tonight. The Boxers are extremely physical. If the refs let them play like they did last night, it could be interesting. Whitworth's composure played a big part in the win last night. They did not let what they could not control affect what they could.  I can see Whitman letting the physicality get to them. Should be interesting!

When you make less than 30% of your free throws like last night, I guess you pray the refs don't call fouls that would send you to the line.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2016, 10:26:17 PM
Whitman up 67-44 on Pacific with 13 min left in the game
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 09, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
Guessing WU won by 2.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 10, 2016, 10:19:16 AM
Here's the mostly unexpected results from this weekend...

Jan 8
UPS 87        Willamette 54
Linfield 53    PLU 51
Whitw 62     Pacific 50
GF 77          L&C 73

Jan 9
Whitm 91     Pacific 74
GF 82          PLU 74
L&C 76        UPS 69
Will 70         Linfield 68

and the conference standings which don't make any sense after 1-2
Whitworth   4-0
Whitman     3-1
George Fox  2-2
Pacific         2-2
PLU            2-2
UPS            2-2
L&C            1-3
Linfield       1-3
Willamette  1-3
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on January 10, 2016, 01:02:30 PM
First to admit I was wrong about the Whitman- Pacific game. It does not matter how physical you are when you commit 26 turnovers and give up 36 points on them!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 10, 2016, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 31, 2015, 05:24:07 PM
I am quite comfortable with Whitworth in my top five (they will fluctuate along with every one else I suspect for the rest of the season).

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 31, 2015, 05:24:07 PM
I think PLU may be the surprise of the season and don't be shocked to see them in the NCAA tournament this season. I will actually seriously consider them for the Top 25 after watching them this week in Vegas.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 10, 2016, 02:32:26 PM
Watched both Pacific games.  WW really struggled with Pacific's athleticism down low.  The half-court pace of that game actually benefited Pacific. The Boxers blocked and altered a lot of shots.  That was Pacific's one chance--WW will mop the floor with them in Spokane.

The WMN-Pacific game wasn't even as close as the 17 point final score.  WMN had a huge advantage catching them on the second night.

The only remaining question in my head going forward, is "can WMN go perfect through the rest of the conference?"  The Tacoma road trip, and @ LC are the three big ones. 

I think WMN beats WW at home.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 10, 2016, 06:42:54 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 10, 2016, 10:19:16 AM
Whitworth   4-0
Whitman     3-1
George Fox  2-2
Pacific         2-2
PLU            2-2
UPS            2-2
L&C            1-3
Linfield       1-3
Willamette  1-3

FTFY
Whitworth   4-0
Whitman     3-1
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 10, 2016, 09:25:45 PM
+K
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 11, 2016, 09:51:26 PM
Whitworth #1  ;D

Anyone heard from blackhawks? I'm worried he's stroked out somewhere...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on January 11, 2016, 11:00:30 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 11, 2016, 09:51:26 PM
Anyone heard from blackhawks? I'm worried he's stroked out somewhere...

He probably got too excited that even though they lost to Whitworth, Whitman moved up to #21!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 12, 2016, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 11, 2016, 09:51:26 PM
Whitworth #1  ;D

Anyone heard from blackhawks? I'm worried he's stroked out somewhere...

Congrats to Whitworth in being ranked #1.  That's an incredibly hard thing to do.  Congrats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 13, 2016, 09:58:45 PM
#1 team board dead  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 13, 2016, 11:15:06 PM
Well congrats to WW, and Whitman gets its highest national ranking in it's history??  There is just not much to talk about on the board.  Is the rest of the conference down, or have WW & WMN just built programs that head and shoulders above everyone else?  And will this gap just continue to widen or do the other programs have a chance to catch up in years to come? 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 14, 2016, 03:41:47 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on January 13, 2016, 09:58:45 PM
#1 team board dead  ???

It isn't like the last time we were #1.  The league was stronger.  We had some quality non-conference wins. Not much to talk about and even Blackhawks has calmed down.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 13, 2016, 11:15:06 PM
Well congrats to WW, and Whitman gets its highest national ranking in it's history??  There is just not much to talk about on the board.  Is the rest of the conference down, or have WW & WMN just built programs that head and shoulders above everyone else?  And will this gap just continue to widen or do the other programs have a chance to catch up in years to come? 

WW and WM have built great programs but no better than what the top teams were like in the past. The difference is how bad LF, Willamette, GF, etc are.  You can only be great with great opponents.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 14, 2016, 06:01:10 AM
Linfield's ship is sinking fast...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 14, 2016, 03:43:20 PM
Games they could have won though.
Perhaps opponents cannot take a W for granted at least.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 15, 2016, 02:34:55 PM
Playball,

I feel your pain. LF basketball was competing at the top of the league when you were there.  In 2008 or 2009 you should have beat WW in the league tournament.  LF, Willamette, GF won't sniff the tourney this year and it is a 4 team tourney.  From what I can see, the talent level at WW and WM is completely different than the rest of the league. This wasn't the case in recent past. The talent level was pretty similar across the league.  Most games were competitive. Now it looks like WM and WW are recruiting from completely different talent pools from the rest of the conference and also out-coaching everyone.  What's going on at LF and the rest of the schools? Any insight?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 16, 2016, 02:12:34 AM
So close.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on January 16, 2016, 02:26:11 AM
Yah. Made me write more than I wanted to for the front page at 2:30 am on the east coast. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 16, 2016, 08:32:23 PM
Talk about "playing not to lose" in the 2nd half.  Serious choke-job from Willamette last night.  Terrible.  The only good thing about the game was the broadcast--top notch announcers. 

Jurlina is my player of the year.  He's been really good all season. 

WMN didn't look too sharp last night either.  They gave up a ton of easy buckets and shot 60% from the line.  George Fox just plays no defense...at all.

On the WMN front, this kid I mentioned last time, Austin Butler, is a PLAYER.  1) He's the best defender in the conference, and 2) he does it ALL--points, rebounds, assists, steals.   He's got a shot at racking up a triple double this year (By the way, can anybody remember an NWC triple double)?

I suspect both WMN and WW win by 20+ tonight. 

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 17, 2016, 12:07:15 AM
Well that was more like it... Whitworth beats GF 91-57

Calvin Jurich is the only Whitworth player that I can remember with a triple double. That had to be 7-8 years ago. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 17, 2016, 03:39:51 AM
A kid from GF had a triple double when I was a senior I'm pretty sure (2010-2011).  Mike something generic.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 17, 2016, 09:54:25 AM
Quote from: playball on January 17, 2016, 03:39:51 AM
A kid from GF had a triple double when I was a senior I'm pretty sure (2010-2011).  Mike something generic.

If it was the NWC his last name was probably Taylor. Every team had a Michael Taylor if I'm not mistaken...and Whitworth had 2 of em
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on January 17, 2016, 04:21:29 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 17, 2016, 09:54:25 AM
Quote from: playball on January 17, 2016, 03:39:51 AM
A kid from GF had a triple double when I was a senior I'm pretty sure (2010-2011).  Mike something generic.

If it was the NWC his last name was probably Taylor. Every team had a Michael Taylor if I'm not mistaken...and Whitworth had 2 of em

That's the one!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2016, 01:46:19 AM
Looks like the league will end up about like it was last year--at least at the end of the first round.  I am assuming PLU and UPS both go winless against the Bucs and the Missionaries (love that name).  So it will be WW, WM, LC, and PLU/UPS. Is LC getting better as their two sport guy gets back into basketball shape?  Maybe they will peak in the tournament like last year. We'll see.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2016, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2016, 01:46:19 AM
I am assuming PLU and UPS both go winless against the Bucs and the Missionaries (love that name).

I wouldn't make this assumption.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 20, 2016, 01:58:26 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2016, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2016, 01:46:19 AM
I am assuming PLU and UPS both go winless against the Bucs and the Missionaries (love that name).

I wouldn't make this assumption.

Why? Do you think this is the weekend WM loses focus and drops one to an underdog?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 23, 2016, 12:40:14 AM
Chalk on the east side tonight

Whitworth beats PLU 93-62 and Whitman was up 20+ on UPS last time I checked...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 23, 2016, 01:56:58 AM
Forest Grove over Palantine Hill in 3 OT 80-77.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 23, 2016, 10:56:10 PM
And there it is, Whitman loses at home to a team that had no business beating them.

PLU 79-74

Whitworth is up by 23 with a minute left.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 23, 2016, 11:27:17 PM
Nice weekend sweep for the 'Cats.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 24, 2016, 12:20:13 AM
I'll interpret that as another road victory in Forest grove making that record 9-8?
AND! the #1 team in the country is in the NWC!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on January 24, 2016, 02:18:00 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 23, 2016, 10:56:10 PM
And there it is, Whitman loses at home to a team that had no business beating them.

I thought the yearly stinker for WM would be at LC, but alas, it was at home against PLU. Guess Blackhawk was right about not sweeping the Tacoma schools. WM will beat WW in W2, but WW will win out the rest for another 15-1 NWC 'ship. WM will once again finish a game back at 14-2. Wish I could have made the games, but the pass was shut down all day Thursday when I was going to come over. Props as always to the WW guys for their streaming. Love that we can watch anyone in the conference now every night.

Now that we are half-way through the NWC schedule, any surprises? Predictions? Midseason awards? My mid-season MVP is George Valle because even though he's overlooked for Love and Jurlina, he's the unsung guy who is quietly top 5 in the NWC in both points and rebounds (and top 14 in assists).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 24, 2016, 03:04:37 AM
Not sure we can blame the WM loss to WM being up and down.  PLU is the up and down team.  How do they lose to LF and beat WM in W2?  Anyway, congrats to PLU for a big win and LF too.  LF is winning more games than I predicted. 

Pinecone,

I'm betting my heart, but I think WW beats WM in W2.  This is the Bucs year.  Undefeated season, win the conference tournament, and they make the final four.  Those are my my predictions.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 24, 2016, 04:31:04 PM
Oh! Don't quit at the final four.
Take it all the way with your prediction.
Remember, no rings for final four, only National Championships.

I do not predict. Some people are thinking 2 more wins in league for "LF" and The Shan will receive COY.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 24, 2016, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 24, 2016, 02:18:00 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 23, 2016, 10:56:10 PM
And there it is, Whitman loses at home to a team that had no business beating them.

I thought the yearly stinker for WM would be at LC, but alas, it was at home against PLU.

At the end of the day, all that matters is the W or L.  But let's not forget that WW was one inch...literally one inch away from being 7-1 when Willamette missed the game winner.  Going 16-0 or 15-1 is no easy task. 

With that ^ said, WW is the epitome of consistency, and WMN isn't there yet.  PLU took open shots all night.  They broke the pressure, leaving WMN's defense scrambling and rotating, and anytime PLU missed an open look, WMN's d was so out of position that PLU had easy offensive boards.  Oboards was the difference in the game.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 24, 2016, 02:18:00 AM
Guess Blackhawk was right about not sweeping the Tacoma schools. WM will beat WW in W2, but WW will win out the rest for another 15-1 NWC 'ship. WM will once again finish a game back at 14-2.

Agree.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 24, 2016, 02:18:00 AM
Props as always to the WW guys for their streaming. Love that we can watch anyone in the conference now every night.

They are awesome.

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on January 24, 2016, 02:18:00 AM
Now that we are half-way through the NWC schedule, any surprises? Predictions? Midseason awards?

Jurlina is MVP.  Love and Valle first team.  Howell first team, IMO McDonald or Austin Butler for WMN...and who really cares about the other spot?  PLU's lefty guard looked tough last night, but we can give it to Luedtke because I actually think Willamette will end up with a better record. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 27, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
UPS over PLU

PLU is now the official up and down team in the NWC!!!!

Congrats to UPS. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 29, 2016, 02:56:44 PM
So tonight is the night Linfield takes down #1?  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2016, 03:35:26 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/dC9DTdqPmRnlS/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 29, 2016, 11:11:08 PM
You guys know why the rest of the conference is so far behind Whitworth?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2Fvevqj5.jpg&hash=51da539a313385595e9ad548e97d11cff4f80d68)

Less than 4 min to tip, playing against the #1 ranked team in the country and apparently only 6 people care (I counted all of them)...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 29, 2016, 11:36:18 PM
You got me watching.
Rat 1 point lead with 3 to go in the 1st 1/2 OK with you?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 29, 2016, 11:39:24 PM
Where in the Rat is Rodby's left hand?
Behind by 1 with 2 1/2 to play OK?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 29, 2016, 11:43:19 PM
(509)....IMHO this WILDCAT Kevin Nelson announcer is good.
He took over for football at the end of the season.
Guess he's graduating.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 29, 2016, 11:56:43 PM
It's Jan term break....
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 30, 2016, 12:21:10 AM
#1 team in the nation?
Yeah, right here....Oh!  I mean high school of course.  :-*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8zMub7rlPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8zMub7rlPY)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 30, 2016, 07:50:45 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 29, 2016, 11:56:43 PM
It's Jan term break....

You wouldn't make that excuse for the football team. Mostly because you wouldn't have to, and that's my point.

Whitworth and Whitman get wins in OR. Linfield may be up there battling for a conference tourney spot in a year or two, just too young and not consistent enough yet. Whitworth with L&C tonight. Normally this game would be more worrisome, but the Pioneers just haven't looked/played like the talented teams of recent years. Whitman absolutely rolled them last night.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 30, 2016, 09:34:35 PM
Keep your eye on Palatine Hill tonight...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 30, 2016, 11:17:57 PM
Lewis and Clark played about as good a game as they'll play all season to keep this one close. Whitworth pulls away late, 89-80. Whitman was, again, beating the tar out of an NWC team from Oregon last time I looked.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 31, 2016, 04:36:28 PM
A dozen 3 point shots from the Missionaries?
Stewart with 18 points - all with 3s?

I guess they pummeled. Seems like pretty good defense too.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 01, 2016, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 30, 2016, 07:50:45 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 29, 2016, 11:56:43 PM
It's Jan term break....
You wouldn't make that excuse for the football team. Mostly because you wouldn't have to, and that's my point.

You're correct.  Football has had terrible student support during some playoff games in the past over Thanksgiving break (most D3 teams suffer the same) but the alumni/local fans still show up strong so you have me there.

I think the Linfield staff is doing a good job in rebuilding the program.  Excited for their future.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 01, 2016, 02:02:20 PM
Fired up for tomorrow's big game, which is essentially meaningless.

Predictions?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 01, 2016, 02:11:18 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 01, 2016, 02:02:20 PM
Fired up for tomorrow's big game, which is essentially meaningless.

Predictions?

Whitman knocks off #1
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 01, 2016, 02:40:17 PM
The game is actually not meaningless.  If WW loses and drops another to a team finishing lower than UPS (which is everyone else), then WM will get the #1 seed.  Not as big a game as it would have been had WM taken care of business, but still one of the most important games left on the schedule.

There is also WW's perfect record and #1 ranking on the line.

Not a meaningless game.

Looking at the standings, there is a good chance no Oregon school makes the playoffs. Considering that Willamette Valley refs give the Oregon schools at least a 15 point advantage per home game means there is actually no comparison between WM, WW, PLU, UPS and the rest of the league. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 01, 2016, 04:45:49 PM
Quoteat least a 15 point advantage per home game

Surely, you jest.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 01, 2016, 08:38:03 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 01, 2016, 02:40:17 PM
Considering that Willamette Valley refs give the Oregon schools at least a 15 point advantage per home game

Uh...I don't think refs at Lewis & Clark on Saturday night got that memo...a few questionable calls go the other way and WW would be in danger of dropping 2 straight
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 02, 2016, 02:39:09 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 01, 2016, 04:45:49 PM
Quoteat least a 15 point advantage per home game

Surely, you jest.
When my brother was coaching football at LF I asked him if he felt like the refs in Spokane screwed them as much as the Willamette Valley refs screwed us. He said, "No, the Spokane refs aren't biased, just bad."

As for why the Eastern Washington teams are leading the NWC--When I moved to Spokane for my senior year in high school, my dad said,  "Tighten up that chin strap, those Spokane kids are tough. You aren't playing those kids from Albany anymore."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 02, 2016, 03:07:08 AM
A Buc -- congrats on the article.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_29453783/football-probably-ok-moderation-says-stanford-medical-expert
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 02, 2016, 03:33:42 AM
Thanks.  Blackhawks, did you comment on the article?


"All those diplomas on his wall, and he's gamblin them on his sons life...what a fool."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 02, 2016, 08:41:35 PM
FWIW as a physician and after having many a conversation with an old roommate who has his PhD in Neuroscience (with a focus in neuroplasticity), I agree with A Buc...

I think Whitman needs to win this game tonight. With a conference tournament and an auto bid at play for the Missionaries they obviously don't HAVE to win, but I think they can't afford to have their young players seeing Whitworth as a consistent and insurmountable machine of a program. Whitworth will break the press and get into the paint tonight, and I expect a relatively high FG%. I think this game comes down to Whitworth shooting the ball well from the outside. Tufts and PLU were even able to afford 17-18 turnovers against the Missionaries and still won because they hit about half of their open 3's on top of easy buckets when handling the press.

I think Whitman probably should win this game at home, I'm not as convinced as a lot of people that they will. Whitworth is the better team and Logie is a better coach. It's just so hard to go undefeated and Whitworth just seems due for a bad game against a good team. Should be fun either way...and the rest of the conference can tune in to see what your gym should look/feel like when the #1 team in the country comes to town.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 02, 2016, 08:59:31 PM
Oh, 509,
Doubt Leaves You So Blind.
Pound your chest and get your popcorn.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2016, 12:07:24 AM
Whitworth down by 5 at half. The difference has been the turnovers that led to a sloooow start. They had 7 by 9 min into the game and I'm pretty sure only 1 the rest of the half. Cut the lead to 3 at one point just before half. FT and 3 pt shooting (kind of) keeping them in this. Whitworth has missed too many buckets around the rim, but Whitman isn't shooting any better, they just have 11 more FG attempts. If Whitworth can play like they did the last 6-7 min of that half for the majority of the 2nd, they win going away.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2016, 12:28:07 AM
Well that escalated quickly...

Couple of turnovers, lots of missed shots and Whitworth is quickly down 50-34. Whitworth has looked slow/sluggish/disinterested for most of the game to this point. Oh well, another year, another conference championship and still no guarantee Whitman even makes it to the tournament final to get another crack at the Pirates. I'm headed to bed...  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 03, 2016, 01:16:50 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 03, 2016, 12:28:07 AM
Well that escalated quickly...

Couple of turnovers, lots of missed shots and Whitworth is quickly down 50-34. Whitworth has looked slow/sluggish/disinterested for most of the game to this point. Oh well, another year, another conference championship and still no guarantee Whitman even makes it to the tournament final to get another crack at the Pirates. I'm headed to bed...  :'(

^^This

87-71 WM. Not the first time we've lost down in W2 as the #1 team in the nation. Poor showing tonight all the way around. Turnovers and cold shooting downed us (I won't even mention the horrendous officiating that wouldn't let a Pirate so much as breathe on a Missionary...whoops, I just did!).

But credit to WM. They shot the ball well and anytime WW tried to make a run, WM hit a big shot to stop any momentum. Not a surprising result IMO. WM is a good team and always plays WW really tough down in W2.

Pressure is now on to finish out the regular season for both Whits.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 03, 2016, 02:03:52 AM
Congrats to WM. It's tough to go undefeated.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 03, 2016, 10:47:51 AM
Come'on Larry, Curly, and Moe--you're better than this. 

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 03, 2016, 12:28:07 AM
Whitworth has looked slow/sluggish/disinterested for most of the game to this point.

Yeah, this was it Rat.  WW just didn't give 110% tonight, right? Didn't bring their A-game.  They didn't want it bad enough.  They didn't leave it all out there.  Didn't put their game face on tonight. 

Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 03, 2016, 01:16:50 AM
Poor showing tonight all the way around. Turnovers and cold shooting downed us (I won't even mention the horrendous officiating that wouldn't let a Pirate so much as breathe on a Missionary...whoops, I just did!).

Oh it was the officiating right?  That was the reason.   The same ticky-tack officiating that put WW into the bonus with 10 minutes left to go in the first, and put 3 of our starters (Austin Butler, Tochi Oti, and Christian McDonald) on the bench the entire half.  That officiating, right?

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 02, 2016, 08:41:35 PM
Whitworth will break the press and get into the paint tonight, and I expect a relatively high FG% ...Whitworth is the better team and Logie is a better coach.

Again--you three consistently shock me.  Did any of you even watch the game?  I really don't think you did.  Not one of you mention that this was probably the first game in years that Whitman didn't trap, and didn't gamble, that they just played straight up man-to-man defense.  That was kind of a big change. 

Whitman dominated this game from tip-off to final buzzer.  There were no lead changes.  It would have been a 15 point game at half if Kenny Love didn't knock down two unconcious "I am the conference player of the year" 3's at the end of the first half. The story of this game was no press, no layups, no easy 3's. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 03, 2016, 01:45:00 PM
Clearly the top two teams in the NWC but I think it's just a bump in the road for the Rats. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2016, 03:27:53 PM
I watched the game. What you quoted was written by me before the game started. Either you aren't sure how the quote function works or your reading comprehension is lacking. Either way, stick to selling insurance, or real estate or whatever job you have that ex-athletes do when they have no other options...

But yeah, Whitworth looked slow and sloppy. It certainly wasn't because Whitman is that good, because we've seen these two play before and know what these guys are capable of. If Whitman gets the auto bid to the tourney maybe I'll give them more credit/respect. Until then they are still the 2nd best team in the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2016, 04:46:37 PM
For the third consecutive year, Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) will air for 12 hours as the regular season enters the final four weeks. Dave McHugh will chat with coaches, administrators, student-athletes, and others involved in Division III basketball from around the country. Other guests will include those who have Division III roots or appreciate the division and the game along with the student-athletes who play the sport.

Hoopsville will air from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. (and maybe later) on Thursday, February 4 live from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can see what guests are scheduled, get more information, and watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/feb4

You can also read the press release about the show: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/hoopsville-marathon-2016

Here is the guest list as we speak. All times are Eastern and subject to change. Additional guests to be added if and when necessary:


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
TimeGuestSchool
10:15amConnie TilleySt. Norbert (WBB) - WBCA Center Court
10:40amJamie PurdyPeidmont (WBB)
11:00amKeri CarolloUW-Whitewater (WBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
11:20amBrent PollariSaint Mary's (Minn.) (WBB)
11:40amKent MadsenNo. 21 Wheaton (Ill.) (WBB)
12:00pmRussell LoydRose-Hulman (MBB)
12:20pmKevin BroderickNazareth (MBB)
12:40pmJustin ScottArcadia (MBB)
1:00pmSam HargravesNo. 12 Alma (MBB)
1:20pmLenny ReichMount Union (SID)
1:40pmMaureen WebsterClarkson (WBB)
2:00pmBetsy WitmanYork (Pa.) (WBB)
2:20pmSara LeeDenison (WBB)
2:40pmKlay KneuppelWisconsin Lutheran (MBB)
3:00pmBrian Van HaaftenBuena Vista (MBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
3:30pmSydney MossNo. 1 Thomas More (WBB)
3:45pmAaron RousellBucknell (WBB) - former Chicago coach
4:00pmTim ShanahanStaten Island (WBB)
4:20Pat CunninghamTrinity (Texas) (MBB) - NABC Coach's Corner
4:50pmBubba SmithSewanee (MBB)
5:15pmBen StrongFormer Guilford All-American
5:30pmKevin ConnorsESPN SportsCenter Anchor - Ithaca alumnus
6:00pmKristen DowlingClaremont-Mudd-Scripps (WBB)
6:20pmAllison ColemanSage (WBB)
6:40pmLandry KosmalskiSwarthmore (MBB)
7:00pmDave NilandNo. 23 Penn State-Behrend (MBB)
7:20pmAaron GallettaLasell (MBB)
7:40pmJohn BaronGwynedd-Mercy (MBB)
8:00pm
8:20pm
8:40pmMelissa HodgdonWheaton (Mass.) (WBB)
9:00pmG.P. GromackiNo. 2 Amherst (WBB)
9:20pmJames Wagner
9:40pmHAPPY HOURFree-for-all of calls, tweets, and fun!

We hope to get at least the full show on a podcast, or several podcast, during the on Friday. You can find it here:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

And a reminder the Hoopsville Fundraising Project has begun yet again. Please consider helping us cover Division III basketball the way it deserves to be covered. If you can not donate, please don't worry about - we understand. At least share the campaign with anyone you think might be interested: http://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser/x/6029509

Also, if you know any advertisers interested in promoting their company or products on the show, send them our way: hoopsville@d3hoops.com

Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 03, 2016, 06:55:20 PM
Blackhawks,

I did not get to see the game but if Whitman stopped pressing and slowed down their offense I Could see them actually playing better. I don't think that frenetic style works well against Whitworth. I hope they haven't solved the issue of how to play against Whitworth.  Time for the Pirates to buckle down and win out the rest of the season to make sure that they have home-court advantage in the tournament. 

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 04, 2016, 04:36:46 AM
#1 was more important than salvaging a tournament.
Too bad.
Props to Missionaries.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 08, 2016, 06:10:07 PM
I'll keep the ball rolling.
Somebody's got a 10-10 record.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 09, 2016, 07:04:07 PM
D.O.C.,

I must say I never thought Linfield would have double digit wins this year. On top of that, they have a good chance for a winning record.  Hopefully the new coach will have them staying on an upward trajectory for awhile. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2016, 01:58:48 PM
Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/10/first-2016-regional-rankings-released-today/
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2016, 04:44:07 PM
Regional rankings for the west:

West – NCAA data sheet

1 St. Thomas  19-1 19-1
2 Whitworth 19-1 20-1
3 Whitman 17-3 18-3
4 Concordia-Moorhead 14-6 14-7
5 Bethel  14-6 14-6
6 St. John's  15-5 16-5
7 Dubuque 12-6 15-6


I assume this bodes well for Whitworth and Whitman getting an at large bid if they don't win the tournament.  For the people, that understand the system, can you enlighten us on what this means?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 10, 2016, 06:16:11 PM
Buc Guy.... In every game would be satisfying for awhile.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 11, 2016, 11:02:48 AM
St. Thomas losing last night could certainly help either Whit, at least whichever one doesn't win the conference tourney...which will probably run through the Fieldhouse...again...sorry Walla Walla.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: madzillagd on February 11, 2016, 01:24:41 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2016, 04:44:07 PM
Regional rankings for the west:

West – NCAA data sheet

1 St. Thomas  19-1 19-1
2 Whitworth 19-1 20-1
3 Whitman 17-3 18-3
4 Concordia-Moorhead 14-6 14-7
5 Bethel  14-6 14-6
6 St. John's  15-5 16-5
7 Dubuque 12-6 15-6


I assume this bodes well for Whitworth and Whitman getting an at large bid if they don't win the tournament.  For the people, that understand the system, can you enlighten us on what this means?

The first week they don't apply all the criteria so give it another round before putting too much stock in the rankings. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2016, 02:05:58 PM
Yeah... these are good as a barometer, but they will go through some big changes next week when more criteria like "Results Versus Regionally Ranked Opponents" (vRRO) is brought to the table.

And it does bode well for Whitworth, however that may mean absolutely nothing after the first weekend anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 11, 2016, 02:35:16 PM
Yeah, the second weekend travel bug may certainly bite us in the ass...again.  But wouldn't the committee HAVE to consider the #1 Regional Ranking team as a probably hosting site for the second weekend?

I am just being selfish of course (homer that I am).  We will be going to Salem if they make it, but back-to-back weekend trips gets a little pricey even for us Pirates!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2016, 04:22:11 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 11, 2016, 02:35:16 PM
Yeah, the second weekend travel bug may certainly bite us in the ass...again.  But wouldn't the committee HAVE to consider the #1 Regional Ranking team as a probably hosting site for the second weekend?

I am just being selfish of course (homer that I am).  We will be going to Salem if they make it, but back-to-back weekend trips gets a little pricey even for us Pirates!

Nope... because when it comes down to it ... money runs the ship. It is cheaper to send Whitworth to one place and bus two other teams there then to fly three teams to Whitworth. It is what it is. They are on one of a couple of islands in Division III and that usually means no chance of hosting the second weekend. It has happened in the past, but there have had to be a lot of ducks line up (like women having priority the second weekend and thus another obvious host losing the chance - this year men have priority in the second weekend) for it to happen.

It would be a shock to see Whitworth hosting the second weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2016, 12:11:21 AM
It is 53-18 in Walla Walla at halftime. Ever since calling off the trapping defense, and just picking up full court man, Whitman's defense looks absolutely dominating. Willamette is shooting 20% from the floor, and remember WW shot 31% and Pac shot 31%. Whitman is just more athletic and more disciplined.  I realize they are beating up on willamette right now, so I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but it's starting to look pretty special. Ready for that show down in Spokane.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 13, 2016, 04:02:09 PM
Could the days of off nights leading to losses against "ok" teams be over for Whitman? Sure is looking like it. When a team with superior talent decides not to give the other team points (because above average college teams will beat your press), they will probably become more consistent. Missionaries look a lot more dangerous than they did just a month ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2016, 11:25:49 PM
Well, hopefully that's as sloppy as it gets for Whitman (who wins 97-72).  They shot 30% from 3, 57% from the line, and allowed George Fox to shoot an unacceptable 39% from the floor ;D--which is about 8% higher than the past 3 games they've played.     

With the LC loss, playoffs are set (WW, WMN, UPS, PLU).  Coincidentally all teams will face-off in Tacoma next weekend.  If you're WW, who do you want in the first round, UPS or PLU?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 14, 2016, 02:46:55 AM
Not sure.

The more interesting question is who do PLU and UPS want to face?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2016, 04:50:21 PM
There isn't that much time left in the regular season as teams continue to fight to get into conference tournaments and position themselves for hopefully NCAA tournament bids. Second round of Regional Rankings are also out with plenty of answers... and questions. Plus, some teams are putting on some shows recently including a lot of buzzer beaters!

On Thursday night's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave McHugh rolls up his sleeves and takes a look at what is happening as we head into the last ten days of the regular season. McHugh will also get some insight on Wednesday's insane men's basketball game between Lynchburg and No. 21 Roanoke. Plus, get a preview of the NESCAC men's and women's tournaments along with talking to ranked teams on both the men's and women's side.

Hoopsville hits the air at 7:00 pm ET and promises to go at least 2 1/2 hours. You can watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/feb18

Guests scheduled (in order of appearance):
- Alex Graves, Lynchburg senior forward
- Howard Herman, Berkshire Eagle, NESCAC tournaments preview
- Brian Morehouse, No. 3 Hope women's coach
- Bill Broderick, No. 16 Christopher Newport women's coach
- Tom Curle, No. 23 Plattsburgh State men's coach
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 9 Whitman men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

And a reminder the Hoopsville Fundraising Project is halfway to the deadline but we are not that close to the goal. Please consider helping us cover Division III basketball the way it deserves to be covered: http://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser/x/6029509.

Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2016, 06:28:07 PM
As stated above, Regional Rankings are out. Nothing new. All comes down to whether WW can win as many games this weekend as Whitman does.

WEST
1 St. Thomas 21-2 21-2
2 Whitworth 21-1 22-1
3 Whitman 19-3 20-3
4 St. John's 16-6 17-6
5 St. Olaf 16-8 16-8
6 Concordia-Moorhead 15-8 15-9
7 Augsburg 15-8 15-8
Women's

The first record is Division III record, followed by overall record.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 20, 2016, 01:45:10 AM
The Whits hang on to win, so the standings heading into the final night are
Whitworth 14-1
Whitman   13-2
PLU           9-6
UPS           8-7

Hopefully WW wins  ;D but if not, then both WM & WW would have lost to PLU. What's the next tiebreaker? Point differential? Overall record? Pie eating contest (WM would win that, too many guards on WW to compete)?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 20, 2016, 12:00:59 PM
I'd assume it's got to go to point differential, right? In which case a Whitworth loss would lead to Whitman hosting (if wmn prevails).

Watched both games last night.  UPS/WW was intriguing,  but even in watching the game, you always have this feeling that whitworth is going to win.  For the second time this year, they win by literally an inch--when UPS guard missed a 3 with seconds left that would have sealed it.

Whitworth will win tonight, but I think they are going to be in another nail-biter. PLU guards are tooough.

It was the Tim Howell show for wmn, and it wasn't the prettiest of wins, but a double digit win nonetheless.  Whitman played half court d a good portion of the game last night.

To me, Whitworth and Whitman are looking like two teams headed in different directions.  Whitman seems to be peaking right now with all the momentum on their side, and Whitworth seems to be just trying to hang on
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2016, 12:13:13 PM
Exciting game last night. First one I've been to in person this year. Agree with Blavkhawks that  it always felt like Whitworth was going to eventually win.  Also agree that Whitman and Whitworth seem to be going in different directions right now.  Hopefully the Bucs will get it together for the playoffs.

Blackhawks, you have some good insights when you're team is doing well. Why are you so delusional when you're team isn't doing well?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 20, 2016, 10:16:00 PM
The d is stingie in t-town tonight! WMN holding puget sound to 17 points in the first half, and 24% from the floor. 39-17 lead

PLU hanging around against WW. Down 5.  Feels like Whitworth is going to keep this lead around 7-8.  With their guards, PLU is not a team you want to go down to the wire against.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 20, 2016, 10:56:47 PM
Another year with the same storyline. Whits split, WW takes care of the rest, WM drops one along the way giving WW the title. Feels like I'm watching the movie Groundhogs Day.

Hard not to agree with you Blackhawk. It does feel like WM is getting better as WW is fighting to hang on, but I also think WM is a team that is built for higher highs and lower lows. WW sort of stays steady, rarely blows anyone away, but grinds out a ton of games. WM can blow teams out of the water--as we've seen many times--but they are susceptible to a bad night or two along the way. The conference tourney will be fun. UPS @ WW, PLU @ WM. Thoughts on end of season awards?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 20, 2016, 11:39:50 PM
WW is the epitome of consistency. In years past, I would agree 100% with you Pinecone (WMN style of play leading to blowouts/high-highs & low-lows). But with Whitman calling off the traps, they are a completely different defensive team. The gimme lay-ups and open 3's that resulted from defensive gambles aren't there anymore, and it's made WMN much more consistent.

Onto the playoffs, PLU is dangerous. Very dangerous. Brandon Lester is going to be haunting my nightmares for the next week. You can tell he is a big game player too. However, if WMN can get Austin Butler matched up with him, I think Butler locks him up--meaning holds him under 15.

All NWC team (in order)
POTY: Jurlina
Love
Valle
Howell
Lester
Luedtke

I don't necessarily agree with above--I think Austin butler should have that last spot. I also think Christian McDonald is a strong candidate, but likely a 2nd teamer.  IMO Kenny love is the POTY, but his stats haven't "wowed" so I don't think he gets the nod.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 21, 2016, 12:13:12 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 20, 2016, 11:39:50 PM
Onto the playoffs, PLU is dangerous. Very dangerous. Brandon Lester is going to be haunting my nightmares for the next week. You can tell he is a big game player too. However, if WMN can get Austin Butler matched up with him, I think Butler locks him up--meaning holds him under 15.

Lester had 24 tonight vs WW. He's a tough, tough player and by himself kept PLU in the game.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 20, 2016, 11:39:50 PM
All NWC team (in order)
POTY: Jurlina
Love
Valle
Howell
Lester
Luedtke

I don't necessarily agree with above--I think Austin butler should have that last spot. I also think Christian McDonald is a strong candidate, but likely a 2nd teamer.  IMO Kenny love is the POTY, but his stats haven't "wowed" so I don't think he gets the nod.

I have the same as you bh, except I have Valle and Jurlina switched. Though it wouldn't totally shock me if McDonald slipped past Luedtke.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2016, 04:37:38 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 20, 2016, 12:00:59 PM
I'd assume it's got to go to point differential, right? In which case a Whitworth loss would lead to Whitman hosting (if wmn prevails).

Not that it matters, but we talked about this on Hoopsville the other night and it would have gone to in-conference road game WL% which would have given Whitman the edge.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: playball on February 21, 2016, 09:44:34 PM
Successful season for Linfield!  We Beat GFU twice! 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 22, 2016, 11:32:22 PM
And a couple teams once.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 02:20:53 PM
Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 24, 2016, 04:59:38 PM
The all nwc teams are in...
POY - Valle
COY - Bridge

1st team
Howell, Love, Jurlina, Meyer, Lester

Meyer is the only surprise IMO, but the coaches game plan for other teams so I guess they would know.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on February 25, 2016, 05:37:34 PM
What are the chances that WW or Whitman are upset and the winner is either PLU or UPS? If so, could the NWC get 3 bids??
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2016, 06:01:13 PM
For PLU and UPS to go to eastern WA and either both win tonight or beat one Whit on Thursday and then the other on Saturday would be a huuuuge shocker. IF it does happen, the probability of the NWC getting 3 teams in has to be similar to the odds of winning the Powerball.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2016, 08:27:12 PM
Quote from: stag44 on February 25, 2016, 05:37:34 PM
What are the chances that WW or Whitman are upset and the winner is either PLU or UPS? If so, could the NWC get 3 bids??

I think Whitman would be in trouble without playing an extra game on the schedule and at least have a result against Whitman... but certainly a chance.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2016, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2016, 08:27:12 PM
Quote from: stag44 on February 25, 2016, 05:37:34 PM
What are the chances that WW or Whitman are upset and the winner is either PLU or UPS? If so, could the NWC get 3 bids??

I think Whitman would be in trouble without playing an extra game on the schedule and at least have a result against Whitman... but certainly a chance.

Someday you're gonna keep the 'Whit's separate in your mind!  But apparently not yet! ;D

(As a Michigander, some 2,000 miles from Whitworth and Whitman, I confess to occasional confusion myself! :P)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2016, 12:16:15 AM
Ha... I am so sleep deprived these days (time of year plus medical reasons) that I completely missed that. Second one should have been Whitworth. Sorry about that.

Of course it is all moot... Whitman lost 81-68 tonight. I think they just put themselves on a very tenuous bubble and possibly cost them yet another chance to make their first NCAA tournament. They really needed to get a win and play WHITWORTH in the title game. We shall see how it all plays out first, of course.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 26, 2016, 12:30:46 AM
Blackhawk, you alive buddy?

Congrats to PLU--they are a tough team and will no doubt give WW a run Saturday. Those guards man. Lester had 29 tonight. I assume WM is going to be the biggest WW fans Saturday, I can't imagine they get a bid if PLU wins. WW took care of business tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2016, 01:44:17 AM
I feel bad, but it's comical at this point. Whitworth looked like a well oiled machine tonight. PLU has a couple dudes who can play, but if Whitworth's defense plays anything like they did tonight they win comfortably. They destroyed PLU at home last time they met, I don't expect it to be that bad but a last second heave by Valle shouldn't be required Saturday.

And Bridgeland was COTY because they were tired of giving it to Logie right? Even before tonight's result, splitting with Whitworth and losing to PLU at home makes you COTY?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2016, 02:35:45 AM
How many years in a row is it that WM has lost in the first round.  It is becoming some kind of pattern. We all said WM was on a hot streak and then they lose.  Unbelievable
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on February 26, 2016, 10:54:02 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2016, 02:35:45 AM
How many years in a row is it that WM has lost in the first round.  It is becoming some kind of pattern. We all said WM was on a hot streak and then they lose.  Unbelievable

It is like Deja Vu all over again!

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 26, 2016, 01:44:17 AM
And Bridgeland was COTY because they were tired of giving it to Logie right? Even before tonight's result, splitting with Whitworth and losing to PLU at home makes you COTY?

Dickerson must have done something to tick off the rest of the coaches! If being picked to finish tied for 7th, but finishing 3rd, being just outside the top 25 (albeit it was before conference play really started), and beating Whitman in the Wallas twice does not make you the COTY I really do not know what does!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
And there is nobody happier about last nights result than Whitworth...

PLU was incredibly well prepared and earned that win.   They were better offensively and defensively tonight. It IS déjà vu. Brandon Lester is hands down the best player in the conference.

No auto-bid for the NWC. NWC isn't historically a powerhouse; and the entire conference doesn't have a good out of conference win all year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on February 26, 2016, 12:45:36 PM
 
QuoteDickerson must have done something to tick off the rest of the coaches! If being picked to finish tied for 7th, but finishing 3rd, being just outside the top 25 (albeit it was before conference play really started), and beating Whitman in the Wallas twice does not make you the COTY I really do not know what does!

Agreed.  I can see a cogent argument to give COY to either Logie or Bridgeland but none greater than for Dickerson.  He really turned that team around this year without a huge change in the roster.   
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2016, 01:54:56 PM
I would agree with the other COTY sentiments. IMO it either goes to the coach who best beats expectations or it goes to the coach who rolls through the conference and finishes on top. It doesn't go to the guy who was supposed to finish 2nd and still finishes 2nd.

blackhawks is right tho, for whatever reason I would much rather see Whitworth get PLU than Whitman. I think it's a better matchup for the Pirates. So, yeah, im happy Whitman lost.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2016, 03:36:30 PM
Still blown away by WM's loss!!!! They just beat PLU at PLU quite easily and then they lost to them in Walla Walla!!!  They do this kind of thing on a regular basis.  Are they looking ahead to WW?  Do they get tight thinking, "Just don't blow this one and then beat WW?"  Is their style of play not consistent enough that makes them vulnerable to upsets? I agree it is great for WW.  PLU vs WW should be a good game to watch, but a Whit match up for the automatic birth would have been epic.

Would have been nice for Dickerson to win COTY.  I hear he is retiring.  He deserved the award. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: HoopsCoachG on February 26, 2016, 06:20:40 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 26, 2016, 01:54:56 PM
IMO it either goes to the coach who best beats expectations or it goes to the coach who rolls through the conference and finishes on top. It doesn't go to the guy who was supposed to finish 2nd and still finishes 2nd.

A perfect example is when Mark Sundquist won it in 2013 for leading George Fox to a 3rd place finish after being picked to finish toward the bottom. Of course he did get fired that Summer :o
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2016, 12:40:22 AM
Agree with Rat and Buc. I'm sure Dickerson will be happy to hear he won the NWC board's vote for COY  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2016, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on February 27, 2016, 12:40:22 AM
Agree with Rat and Buc. I'm sure Dickerson will be happy to hear he won the NWC board's vote for COY  :D

So who lives close enough to Tacoma to take him his trophy?
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0173%2F9894%2Fproducts%2F1_314979d7-dbae-426f-8b8a-09e5e45b9dae_grande.png%3Fv%3D1442597604&hash=f5849e3bf68155ab9747eedfb0afcb53b575cd19)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2016, 07:48:21 PM
LOL!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2016, 10:17:43 PM
Is anyone else having trouble with the live feed for WW vs PLU?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 27, 2016, 10:51:27 PM
Hey Buc, no problem from my view in the Fieldhouse! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2016, 11:43:14 PM
Whitworth wins 75-62

And now we play the waiting game
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 28, 2016, 12:29:10 AM
Do any of you D3hoops guys know if there are other teams that have won 10 consecutive tournament titles like Whitworth has?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: sac on February 28, 2016, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 28, 2016, 12:29:10 AM
Do any of you D3hoops guys know if there are other teams that have won 10 consecutive tournament titles like Whitworth has?

St. Thomas just lost their 10 try at winning consecutive MIAC's according to their pbp guys..
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 28, 2016, 04:59:46 PM
89Pirate ...
Kansas?  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 29, 2016, 02:31:26 PM
They're dancing in Walla Walla!

Need to take care of business with the SCIAC...and if so, it's the game wmn wanted.

Extremely tough road for the Whits (with this being the understatement of the year), but if you're going to win it all, you have to beat the best anyways--may as well play them early.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AO on February 29, 2016, 03:02:05 PM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2016, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 28, 2016, 12:29:10 AM
Do any of you D3hoops guys know if there are other teams that have won 10 consecutive tournament titles like Whitworth has?

St. Thomas just lost their 10 try at winning consecutive MIAC's according to their pbp guys..
They were confused.  St. Thomas has won 11 straight regular season championships but they lost in the tournament championship game in 2010 and 2014.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 29, 2016, 04:26:14 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 29, 2016, 02:31:26 PM
They're dancing in Walla Walla!

Need to take care of business with the SCIAC...and if so, it's the game wmn wanted.

Extremely tough road for the Whits (with this being the understatement of the year), but if you're going to win it all, you have to beat the best anyways--may as well play them early.

Now that your team is in the tourney you finally get what the draw is like for these Northwest conference teams.  Seriously, WW, St Thomas, Augustana, and Hope all in the same section.  That represents 4 teams in the top 7 in the country. Doesn't really matter in the long run, but makes just getting to the final four tough. WM is a tough draw for WW. They can beat anyone when they are hot.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 29, 2016, 08:19:44 PM
looks like blackhawks will get a shot to have the last laugh. Despite the often inconsistent play, I don't see Whitman losing to a Chapman team that will fly to Pasco or Spokane and then bus 1 to 3 hours to Walla Walla. Take care of business against the SCIAC sacrificial lamb and then get a very evenly matched game against Whitworth in Spokane...then go to Augustana or St. Thomas and beat those two...all just to get to the final four. Brutal bracket. Going with the final regular season d3hoops top 25 poll, that "region" or corner of the bracket has the #1, 3, 6, 7, 9, and 17 ranked teams. Nothing new though when geography isn't your friend. As blackhawks would say, you gotta beat em at some point to win it all. Unless you are Amherst, then you only have to beat one top 10 opponent to make it to the title game  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2016, 11:39:56 PM
Whitman announcing team is horrendous. Luckily the basketball team has really started playing good basketball the last 5 min of this 2nd half. The full court press is on and I really hope they use it Saturday since it's working really well for them tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 04, 2016, 12:05:22 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 03, 2016, 11:39:56 PM
Whitman announcing team is horrendous. Luckily the basketball team has really started playing good basketball the last 5 min of this 2nd half. The full court press is on and I really hope they use it Saturday since it's working really well for them tonight.

;D

The only thing not going Whitman's way down the stretch was their free throw shooting.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2016, 07:02:31 AM
Chapman turned the ball over 20 times which led to 28 points for Whitman. In every other aspect of the game Chapman played well. I think Whitman is going to have to shoot the ball better to get a win in Spokane. They certainly will have to be better from the FT line. I don't think they'll be as successful forcing Pirate turnovers on Saturday as they were last night...at least I hope they aren't.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 04, 2016, 12:24:23 PM
Thank god I'm not going to have to wait 275 days for this. The game WMN wanted.  I'd rather see WMN do in WW's house anyways.They cannot be very happy in Spokane.

Last night: It was an improved SCIAC this year. Chapman was actually a good team.  Very disciplined on offense. It was impressive--shot 60% from the floor in the first half against a WMN d which had been much better.

Bridgeland pulled the right strings though, and returned to the press/traps--which led to 20 TO's by Chapman and completely took them out of their sets.

Pretty cool to see WMN be able to put the traps on when needed or just play man. Gives them a lot of versatility.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 05, 2016, 10:44:14 PM
Whitworth up 46-43 at the half. Having Staudacher be the only player to touch the ball on the last possession of the half was really the only bad decision Whitworth has made in the first 20 min. The press is hurting Whitman more than it is helping so hopefully it continues
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 05, 2016, 10:48:55 PM
46-43 Whitworth at halftime.

I've watched a lot of Whitworth basketball this year--more than I care to admit.  And they just gave Whitman their best half of the season.  Valle, Love, Jurlina, Roach, Sears...you name it, they were unconscious.  If they play a second half like that, they wont just beat Whitman...they'll beat anybody in the country.  BUT, can they play a 2nd half like that? I don't think they can.  In looking at the stat sheet--they're going to cool down.  Whitman just has to stay consistent.  HUGE first 5 minutes of the half, could tell us a lot.  Should be WMN ball coming out of the break.

Sure, I'd much rather have WMN in the driver's seat right now, but they just took WW's best shot...and its a 3 pt game.  I like their chances. 



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 05, 2016, 11:44:35 PM
Congrats to Whitman. McDonald and Howell played their best half of basketball at the right time. Makes you wonder how they lose games to much worse opponents. And don't worry blackhawks, when they don't make it to Salem, none of us Pirate fans will say their season was anything but a success. Been through the gauntlet that is the western half of the d3 tourney bracket. Good luck!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BruinFan on March 05, 2016, 11:46:38 PM
Wow - I caught the last 8 minutes or so of the Whitworth-Whitman game. That was amazing. Both teams were making all kinds of shots. Too bad the NWC could only have one advance to next weekend. Congrats to Whitman.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: pg04 on March 05, 2016, 11:49:39 PM
What an entertaining game! Kudos to both teams who could have probably made it to the sweet 16 on their own without the geographic limitations.

Good luck to Whitman next weekend!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2016, 11:50:44 PM
Terrific back and forth game. Really fun to watch. I hate to say it, though, the announcer completely ruined some of the experience.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CMSfan on March 06, 2016, 12:01:22 AM
Congrats to Whitman from down south. That was a fun game to watch between a couple of very talented teams. I'm impressed by Whitman's depth and toughness. St. Thomas will be tough, but I think they've got a shot.

Props also to Whitworth for another great season and NWC championship. Also for a great broadcast (minus the laughable commentary).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2016, 12:04:49 AM
I know you watch a lot of d3hoops streams, which means I know you know how bad 95% of them are. I get there was something that rubbed you the wrong way but in terms of broadcasts night in night out, doing play by play and color, solo, there aren't more than a handful of comparable announcers in d3hoops.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2016, 12:09:27 AM
What rubbed me wrong is the absolute unabated attack of the refs over what was apparently a questionable non-call (I wasn't watching at the time - another window was up - but had his audio up). He even admitted when one of the refs got close he probably shouldn't say anything and then continued on with his attack of the bad call. He then brought it up several times after that. It is a major no-no in the eyes of the NCAA to criticize the refs especially in such an aggressive manner.

Then at the end he called Whitworth punks as they were celebrating.

Here is the key about hosting: despite it being on a "home" floor, everything is to be as neutral as possible. The broadcast veered away from neutral on many occasions. I actually enjoyed how he called parts of the game, but to inert overly aggressive and extremely bad tone and such into the broadcast about a call is uncalled for. There are ways to say something about it being a non-call without going after the refs. He went way over the line. And then the punk comment... I think that speaks for itself.

BTW, not only is the NCAA going to be unhappy... but there are a LOT of eyeballs on that game around the country... I wouldn't think Whitworth wouldn't want to be portrayed in such a way, either.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2016, 12:27:13 AM
I wonder if he was talking about when Love almost got decapitated? I was further down the court but there was a blatant flagrant 1 and wouldn't have been out of the question to call it a flagrant 2. Maybe half way through the 2nd half?

Obviously didn't hear his call but would agree saying anything about the Whitman players is uncalled for. Don't get me wrong, Howell was a total dick (and White and McDonald weren't much better), but when you make every shot you take in the second half you get to point, stick your tongue out and cuss at the opposing students all you want. He earned the right to be a dick and the announcer should have just let that go.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2016, 12:30:19 AM
Yes, I believe that was the call he was talking about... and I get it probably should have been called... but there are ways to comment on that ... and going off on the refs and stating you probably have gone too far and then continuing ... well that speaks for itself.

And yes, I am sure in that rivalry game when Whitman has finally won on Whitworth's floor... the players weren't acting at their very best... but the announcer can't stoop to that level. We at home are expecting to hear the call without the edge of hatred... and that was clearly on display.

When the mic is turned on or the camera light turns red... there are expectations especially in such a highly watched event... thus the bar is raised... you have to rise to that bar and not lower it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 06, 2016, 12:32:40 AM
I simply cannot digest the fact that (509)rat was correct in that Whitworth should not have been ranked #1 in the country.   :-*
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CMSfan on March 06, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 06, 2016, 12:27:13 AM
I wonder if he was talking about when Love almost got decapitated? I was further down the court but there was a blatant flagrant 1 and wouldn't have been out of the question to call it a flagrant 2. Maybe half way through the 2nd half?

FWIW, watching online it just looked like a hard foul. Commentator said it was a breakaway and that Love got tackled...definitely not what it looked like.

Quote from: (509)Rat on March 06, 2016, 12:27:13 AM
Don't get me wrong, Howell was a total dick (and White and McDonald weren't much better)

I get that it's disappointing to lose a big game, especially to a team you're used to beating, but it's unfortunate that you saw fit to write that.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2016, 01:39:00 AM
Turns out... I know who the broadcaster was... disappointed he let his professional skills slip and slide to those levels. He is better than that.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 06, 2016, 02:57:21 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 05, 2016, 11:44:35 PM
Congrats to Whitman. McDonald and Howell played their best half of basketball at the right time. Makes you wonder how they lose games to much worse opponents. And don't worry blackhawks, when they don't make it to Salem, none of us Pirate fans will say their season was anything but a success. Been through the gauntlet that is the western half of the d3 tourney bracket. Good luck!

^^This. Well said, 509.

A couple other thoughts.

(1) Stop raging on Bob. Dave, you are right that calling Whitman punks (or whatever, I didn't hear that part of the call) shouldn't have been said, but 509 is right too that they were acting like punks. I don't blame them, I probably would have acted that way too in an emotional college game against my rival at their home court with their loud fans. But Dave, those refs were horrid tonight--and it's not just that non intentional call. Just an unreal amount of incompetence for an NCAA game, which is unfortunate. Bob is an official himself, so he is often over-the-top kind to refs. I don't blame him for saying something about the refs in an emotional game between two rivals. Stop with the holier than thou stuff.

(2) Howell is a freak. I'm now 100% convinced he's the best player in the conference even if he didn't win POY this year (I was only 75% convinced before ;D). Geez. He threw up so many wild shots and they all fell. He's going to be annoyingly good for the next two years, isn't he? It was fun to see 5 of the best 6 players in the NWC all on the floor at the same time. Hey blackhawk, there seems to be some difference on McDonald's eligibility. I've seen him listed as a sophomore and a junior. Do you know which it is? I hope it's a junior. I can't imagine having to face Howell and McD the next two years. I'm guessing this is how most teams felt about Love and Jurlina last year (and this year and next year).

(3) WW will be fine going forward. Other than Valle, they return everyone who played major minutes this season. I would imagine Roach and Bishop will see a lot more playing time going forward as they go into their sophomore year. WM will be fine too. As long as they have Howell and McD they will be as good as anyone. The road to the NWC title will go through Eastern Washington for the foreseeable future.

(4) Good luck to WM going through the west. WW has nothing to hang their heads over. They won yet another NWC regular season and tournament title, and lost to a really good team in the tournament in a game that could have gone either way. Both teams are deserving of the sweet 16, but region and logistics and all that.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2016, 03:10:35 AM
Quote from: Pinecone_Curtain on March 06, 2016, 02:57:21 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 05, 2016, 11:44:35 PM
Congrats to Whitman. McDonald and Howell played their best half of basketball at the right time. Makes you wonder how they lose games to much worse opponents. And don't worry blackhawks, when they don't make it to Salem, none of us Pirate fans will say their season was anything but a success. Been through the gauntlet that is the western half of the d3 tourney bracket. Good luck!

^^This. Well said, 509.

A couple other thoughts.

(1) Stop raging on Bob. Dave, you are right that calling Whitman punks (or whatever, I didn't hear that part of the call) shouldn't have been said, but 509 is right too that they were acting like punks. I don't blame them, I probably would have acted that way too in an emotional college game against my rival at their home court with their loud fans. But Dave, those refs were horrid tonight--and it's not just that non intentional call. Just an unreal amount of incompetence for an NCAA game, which is unfortunate. Bob is an official himself, so he is often over-the-top kind to refs. I don't blame him for saying something about the refs in an emotional game between two rivals. Stop with the holier than thou stuff.

Bob later said it was a well called game except for that one call. So, I'm not sure he would agree with you that it was a horribly called game. Sounds like from what he said later in the game that despite that one call... he didn't have a problem with how it was called.

But being that he is a ref, I am surprised he would call them out as aggressively. He should know better than any that calling out refs for calls isn't what he would want happen to himself. There are many, many ways to point out the call is questionable without railing on them yourself.

And I am not being holier than thou... I know full well how the NCAA feels about refs being called out on air. I have had many a conversation with those at headquarters about it and I know the information that is published about it in many manuals and other locations. In fact, here is how it reads in the media guidelines for streaming a game:

Quote
The Streaming Entity may not denigrate Turner, the NCAA, NCAA member
institutions or teams, their players or officials, or any NCAA sport, and must
comply in all respects with the NCAA bylaws, rules and regulations in effect,
which may be amended from time to time by the NCAA in its sole discretion.

I know many a school who has gotten written notice that the NCAA is displeased. There is a higher standard. I know Bob and I am shocked he went where he went with those two moments. No matter how emotional a situation, a professional broadcaster (his bar is higher than students) does not go there.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2016, 09:16:15 AM
Quote from: CMSfan on March 06, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
I get that it's disappointing to lose a big game, especially to a team you're used to beating, but it's unfortunate that you saw fit to write that.

Why?

Trump is a dick, he is leading every imaginable poll and nobody will be mad at you for calling him one even though you are a Bernie supporter. I was a dick to a patient the other day and anyone who said as much wouldn't be wrong. Howell was a dick, but if you're a student yelling at a dude who is single handily beating your team, you kinda deserve it and can't really be mad at him. Apparently Bob was being a bit of a dick calling out refs and Whitman players, but that doesn't mean he still isn't one of the best broadcasters of d3 sports in the country. I have no problem with some of the Whitman players acting the way they did, when you play that well you can do whatever you damn well please. So I hurt your feelings because of how I described someone else's behavior? That's the only thing I find unfortunate.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 12:41:32 PM
Rat, you're not hurting anyone's feelings. It's just disappointing that there's no class in defeat, and instead, are going after 19 year old student athletes, calling them punks, dicks, and berating officials over a controversial call. I expected the blame to be pointed at the refs (like last time), but actually didn't think it would stoop this low with the players.

To give some perspective of what McHugh means by "overly aggressive tone," you have an announcer screaming over and over and berating officials that the foul call in question should have been a "Technical Foul!" Which, doesn't even make sense--right? It's either A) he's lost all composure in the moment, or B) he's not the announcer you think he is because he doesn't understand the difference between a technical foul and a flagrant foul. Then, to hear his comments at the end of the game, it just came across as a poor representation of the university. Very poor. I'll echo the sentiment of the  impartial folks who chose to chime in on the board, with disappointment.

I will say, however, I have watched many WW broadcasts in the past, and he has been very good. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say he just lost composure in the heat of a really big game, which actually would make sense...because it seems like that's a theme at Whitworth (that's the only jab I've got ;D--it's been a long time coming fellas)

Let's shift the attention to where it should be, the game. Unbelievably well played game by both teams. Very cool to see fans from other parts of the country watching this game and commenting on how well played it was, and how good the teams were.

First off, Whitworth players:  Valle. Wow. What a performance. He really came to play tonight. Jurlina-solid. Kenny Love...I mean...he's THAT good. Were I Logie, I would hire an assistant coach who's job was to tap Kenny Love on the shoulder during every timeout and whisper in his ear, "Hey, you're Kenny Love." When he is aggressive, he is unguardable. When he had the ball down 3, was there anybody who didn't know that shot was going down? And Logie, made a great adjustment from last game with the screen at half court--which forced Bridgeland to call off the full court man and just slip into half court d.

Look we can break down what the difference in the game was, but honestly, it really came down to both teams playing at such a high level, and one had to win, while one had to lose. Could have gone either way. Howell and McDonald were just exceptional. Howell was 12-17 in the second half. But by no means was it a 2 man show--big contributions from Evan Martin, Montez, Austin Butler, and the whole team. They are so deep, and a team effort has been the theme all year.

WMN has now successfully gone from the cellar dweller of the NWC (when Bridgeland inherited the program) to the Sweet 16. What a credit to him, the university, all the kids played in the past 6 years who kept raising the bar each year.

Bring on St. Thomas.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: pointlem on March 06, 2016, 01:55:12 PM
As one who did watch last night's game from another part of the country, let me say:
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 02:28:00 PM
Press conferences below. High praise for Kenny Love and WW program from Whitman camp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kZqp-d1GVY&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd7AUf5C0Gc&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 06, 2016, 02:46:50 PM
Great game.  Tournaments are a tough way to end the season--only one team gets to end on a win, but that was a great game to watch and both teams fought hard. The intentional foul was unfortunate how it played out.  Smart move by the kid to foul. It was a little too rough and it was a 50/50 call on whether it was a break away or not. That's all water under the bridge.  The key was WW lost composure for a minute or two.  Bad possession after the foul and they lost their rhythm for a bit.  That's mental toughness.  It would have been great had the refs made the call, the free throws and the possession would have changed the game. However, just keeping the momentum going and playing harder rather than playing softer is how you need to respond. Reminds me of Eastern Washington vs Georgetown last year. EWU was winning and Tyler Harvey got mugged after the whistle.  No call.  It was so bad the NCAA apologized after the game for how bad the refs blew it.  EWU went soft when they should have come back fighting. They fell behind, but almost won when they got mad, pressed, and finally started playing with some fire.  Bottom line is when someone gets rough and refs are going to let them play that way, you have to step up and play just as rough.

As for Bob's comments and WM's player's behavior.  Let's all give them a pass.  Bob is usually one of the least biased announcers on these live feeds. I can still remember the Carthage announcer calling Loofbourrow a thug.  Montana announcers are worse than having the parents call the game.  As for the kids, it was bush, but not that bad. It's up to Bridgeland to have a "teachable" moment with them. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 03:35:56 PM
^^^ Nice job, A Buc. Agree with above.

Regarding the comments, no harm done to Whitman kids. If they can't handle that, life is going to get really hard for them post college. And the announcer has always seemed to be a class act. This was one highly emotional game.

Regarding the foul, I agreed with the foul call (would feel same even if the shoe were on the other foot). You gotta let the players decide the game. From the live feed, it did not look like a clear path (I think that's only a nba rule), it looked like the defender was ahead of Love, and to me it looked like it was a hip check/ body contact, but Love was just in an all out sprint--turning it into quite a collision. It definitely saved a critical 2 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 06, 2016, 03:48:06 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 12:41:32 PM
Rat, you're not hurting anyone's feelings. It's just disappointing that there's no class in defeat
...
Then, to hear his comments at the end of the game, it just came across as a poor representation of the university. Very poor.

Ugh, this is so stupid to argue over. Stop finger pointing. Howell was not representing Whitman well at the end of that game, and maybe Bob was not representing Whitworth well either. Get over it. It an emotional game, and--get this--people get emotionally invested, and let's be honest, that's what makes sports so fun.

Now the clear path foul: I didn't think that was a college rule, but WW got called for a clear path foul on PLU in the NWC tournament. So that definitely needs to be cleared up this offseason. Anyway, I know WM doesn't have a football team, but whoever committed that foul would make a great football player.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 12:41:32 PM
Let's shift the attention to where it should be, the game. Unbelievably well played game by both teams. Very cool to see fans from other parts of the country watching this game and commenting on how well played it was, and how good the teams were.

Agree with this 100%. Both teams played well, and hopefully this gives the rest of the country a look at NWC basketball. And don't forget that PLU beat Whitman twice at their home court this year and played well in Vegas, so there really are 3 national-level teams in the conference. There i$ a rea$on we don't ever get a team deep in the tourney, and it'$ not lack of talent.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 06, 2016, 12:41:32 PM
First off, Whitworth players:  Valle. Wow. What a performance. He really came to play tonight. Jurlina-solid. Kenny Love...I mean...he's THAT good.

Agree again. And props to Howell & McD. They are absolute studs too. I'm glad we have another year of Howell/McD vs. Love/CJ. Best NWC rivalry since Williams/Foster vs. Williams/Symes 10 years ago. Did we get a clarification if McD is a so. or a jr.?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 06, 2016, 04:19:23 PM
And don't forget LINFIELD beat PLU.   :)

Teasing is done.
Whitworth had a great season out on their island. Don't know if the West Coast can take this "too bad you live so far away" forever in Division III.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/mar/05/whitmans-christian-mcdonald-beats-buzzer-ends-whit/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/mar/05/whitmans-christian-mcdonald-beats-buzzer-ends-whit/)

Good health to the Missionaries.  I remember when you were a doormat game.

Just in case you were wondering how that #1 high school team in the country was doing....

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160305/whicker-chino-hills-14-year-old-melo-ball-the-director-of-entertainment-in-cif-title-game?source=most_viewed (http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160305/whicker-chino-hills-14-year-old-melo-ball-the-director-of-entertainment-in-cif-title-game?source=most_viewed)


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2016, 07:58:45 PM
Hopefully Howell and McDonald continue to attack the rim next week. Besides the fact that they both seemed to hit everything in the second half, it really opened up the baseline and the 3 point line for Stewart (spelling?), Martin and Butler. I really hope they ditch the full court trapping press. Pick em up full court and make them work a little, but don't give em a bunch of 3 on 2 and 4 on 3 opportunities like Whitworth got in the first half.  You are going against teams who are just as talented and in Augustana's case more talented than Whitworth. You aren't gonna pressure them into 20 turnovers like you can Chapman. Whitman can beat St. Thomas and hope they do to get a shot at #1 (assuming Augustana takes care of business).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 11, 2016, 07:19:33 PM
Haven't watched but it looks like that Whitman team who loses to PLU showed up. Congrats again on knocking off Whitworth when it counted. Should be another fun two team race in the NWC next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 12, 2016, 01:58:07 AM
Congrats to WM. They had a good run, and they have a good foundation. Glad they got a taste WW's road the last decade because as they found out, it's not as easy as it looks.

PLU and UPS also have decent foundations going forward. It looks like the state of WA has a stranglehold on this conference--especially the eastern half.

Way too early 2016-17 predictions:
1- WW, 2- WM, 3- PLU, 4- UPS, 5- LC, 6- Pacific, 7- Will 8- Lin 9- GF

POY: Howell
1st team: Love, Jurlina, McDonald, Lester, Meyer
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 17, 2016, 05:15:22 PM
WW needs St. Thomas' killer instinct.  WW was up by 14 and they let WM back in it.  Rough foul on Love and it took too long to get back to playing hard.  St. Thomas just kept the pedal to the metal.

Love and Jurlina will be great for WW next year, but I'm betting Kyle Roach makes a huge step up. He's tall and quick for a D3 guard/wing and had to adjust from playing at a small school in Marin to playing college ball. He'll make a huge step up just from maturing, but if he spends enough time in the weight room, he'll be as good as Love and Jurlina next year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 28, 2016, 09:30:46 AM
Oh, just a little follow up on that Chino Hills High School team....

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20160327/chino-hills-perfect-basketball-season-stands-among-the-all-time-greats?source=most_viewed (http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20160327/chino-hills-perfect-basketball-season-stands-among-the-all-time-greats?source=most_viewed)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AO on April 07, 2016, 09:38:58 AM
Whitman may have lost the game by 26 points, but they certainly won the pregame handshake contest. 

https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/2239786499377730/ (https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/2239786499377730/)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on August 25, 2016, 09:51:36 PM
Press release re: Whitworth's incoming class. Of note, Michael Taylor's younger brother (Gebbers' cousin) joins the Pirates, along with 2 Australians, 1 Kiwi and a German. 7 total players 6 have 4 years of eligibility and 1 is a transfer.

Whitworth MBB incoming class (http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/releases/20160825lcwqzg)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 02, 2016, 10:19:24 PM
Whitworth was tied with Montana at the half 38-38. Montana just started to pull away a bit with 10 min left in the game, up 62-55.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 03, 2016, 01:07:51 AM
Whitworth lost to Montana 90-80. Leading Pirate scorers were as you'd expect, Jurlina, Roach and Love at the top of the stat sheet. Didn't see a box score so I'm not sure how much Montana messed with rotations and how deep they went into their bench, but this was the closest game between the two over the past 3 years. Whitworth should have a good team yet again. If some of the young foreigners can contribute quickly they have more potential than last years team IMO.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 18, 2016, 12:37:15 AM
Feeling lonely Rat?

Whitworth played well against Montana.  Nice article from their local newspaper:  http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/montana-men-s-basketball-rorie-scores-to-spark-griz-past/article_007d04f2-e5de-5fcd-85a5-28a00ee42e5f.html

I see the coaches picked picked WW over WM, but WM ranked 9th nationally and WW 12th. http://nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/releases/nwcpoll-mbsk2017  It is going to be a battle for the top spot this year.  On paper WW lost more than WM, but I'm hoping Kyle Roach steps up big time to fill the void left by Valle. 

I hear Linfield looks better.  Any other info on the other teams out there?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 19, 2016, 01:03:40 PM
Whitman smoked St. Olaf 108-78. St. Olaf looked good through most of the first half, they weren't forcing shots, getting easy looks around the rim and then when they got down by 8-10 pts and fell apart. Fell right into Whitman's trap (pun intended). Here's the write-up:

http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2016/11/19/mens-basketball-6-reach-double-figures-in-win-over-olaf.aspx (http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2016/11/19/mens-basketball-6-reach-double-figures-in-win-over-olaf.aspx)

St. Olaf plays Whitworth tonight in what will surely be a closer game. Not because Whitman is that much better than Whitworth IMO, but because of the Missionaries' style of play. I say this every year, and it looks like this year I'm only talking to myself (and maybe A Buc Forever) but Whitworth and Whitman are consistently very evenly matched, with the Pirates actually winning more often than not, but the difference in pace/style between the two seems to always give the Missionaries a bigger margin of victory against common non-conference opponents.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Drake Palmer on November 19, 2016, 01:18:49 PM
I'm a MIACER and watched a portion of that Olaf Whitman game, and you're absolutely right. The young guards for St. Olaf basically fell apart from the relentless pressure Whitman was applying.  If they were to meet a little later in the year, I think the score would be closer, but would still be  a 10-12 point win for Whitman.  Good luck this season, and perhaps a NWC and MIAC team will meet again in the post season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 19, 2016, 02:52:25 PM
Whitworth has been very good as of late, so this is easier said than done, but any coach who has a game against Whitman should call Logie and ask for some film on Whitworth handling the press and the half court pressure D. They make it look very easy at times and never get run out of the gym like Olaf did. It takes a good gameplan and discipline, but there is a mountain of evidence on how to handle Whitman's "scheme." I mean, this is a team that loses a game to an average NWC team every single year...but they always make some early season non-conference opponents look like absolute schmucks.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 19, 2016, 11:58:27 PM
Whitworth let Olaf back in it and squeaks out the W, 70-68. Kenny Love was 1-6 and didn't get to the FT line until there was 3 sec left in the game...he finished with 5 points. He is arguably the best player in the league, so despite the final score I think you have to be happy Whitworth won at all with him struggling to score. Kyle Roach led Whitworth with 20 pts and the Bucs shot 50% from 3 as a team.

Texas Lutheran and Schreiner come to Spokane next weekend, along with Whitman. Would expect the Whits to sweep that weekend as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 22, 2016, 05:33:11 PM
What is Whitman's new mascot?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 25, 2016, 10:06:04 PM
Quote from: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on November 22, 2016, 05:33:11 PM
What is Whitman's new mascot?

The "Blues" I guess. Named after the mountain range next door. I didn't realize it was changed until sometime between calling them the Missionaries in an earlier post and just now.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/whitman-college-dumps-missionary-mascot/ (http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/whitman-college-dumps-missionary-mascot/)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 26, 2016, 12:04:25 AM
Whitman wins 91-60. Just ran an overmatched team off the court. Schreiner had 17 turnovers at the half...

Whitworth pulled away from a pesky Texas Litheran team. Roach again led Whitworth with 28 pts, but Love had 21 and a few big baskets down the stretch.

Neither team should struggle tomorrow night, though I would expect TLU to turn the ball over less than both of Whitman's two previous opponents. It may make that game a little closer...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on November 26, 2016, 12:47:49 AM
Yeah, TLU showed some spunk without its best player Holmes.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 26, 2016, 10:35:12 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 26, 2016, 12:47:49 AM
Yeah, TLU showed some spunk without its best player Holmes.

Holmes did start and played 13 minutes, so I'm assuming the injury isn't too bad.  He missed the previous games.  Anyone know if we'll see him today?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 27, 2016, 07:30:14 AM
Whitman beats TLU 98-82. Whitman's pressure forced 19 TLU turnovers but also led to 41 TLU FT attempts. The Bulldogs didn't play any "cleaner" as Whitman also attempted 41 FTs. You have to be a lot more efficient on the offensive end if you want to beat Whitman despite 19 turnovers (which is possible as Whitman isn't immune to turning it over themselves).

Whitworth built up a good size lead on Schreiner and coasted to a 87-63 win. Love led the Pirates tonight with 25 points. Roach had 20 and continues to shoot really well from 3 (now making 64% of his 3pt attempts on the season).

The Whits travel to Willamette next weekend and then play each other the following Tuesday in Walla Walla.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 27, 2016, 02:59:55 PM

It stinks for TLU that they had to make this trip without their best player at full strength, but they put up two good fights regardless.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 29, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Just saw the current rankings. Early rankings, but nice to have 2 NWC teams in the top 10.  Interesting that no UW-xxx team ranked higher than 21.  Anyone know what's happening there?

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Amherst (19)   3-0   611   1
2   Babson (5)   6-0   599   3
3   Tufts   4-0   558   5
4   Marietta (1)   5-0   542   17
5   Whitman   3-0   510   9
6   North Central (Ill.)   3-0   485   13
7   Christopher Newport   3-1   447   2
8   Whitworth   3-0   437   12
9   Washington U.   4-0   380   20
10   St. Norbert   1-1   378   4
11   Wooster   3-1   357   7
12   St. Thomas   3-1   297   10
13   Keene State   4-0   292   19
14   Benedictine   2-2   207   6
15   Hope   3-1   201   22
16   Illinois Wesleyan   5-0   184   --
17   Augustana   4-1   175   18
18   Rochester   6-0   168   --
19   Salisbury   4-0   162   --
20   Baldwin Wallace   4-0   116   --
21   UW-Eau Claire   4-0   112   --
22   Mount St. Joseph   5-0   96   --
23   WPI   4-0   84   --
24   Endicott   2-1   81   --
25   Susquehanna   4-1   70   25

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 29, 2016, 07:18:50 AM

The Wisconsin teams haven't sorted themselves out yet.  Eau Claire may be the best, which will be hard for the voters to understand until later in the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2016, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 29, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Just saw the current rankings. Early rankings, but nice to have 2 NWC teams in the top 10.  Interesting that no UW-xxx team ranked higher than 21.  Anyone know what's happening there?

The WIAC has been completely dominated by two programs, UWSP and UWW, over the past several years. That's not the case anymore. UWSP is young and has trailed off in terms of overall ability, and UWW had what for the Warhawks was a really down season in 2015-16 (16-10, 7-7). It doesn't mean that the league is worse; in fact, it may be better than it's been recently, because the pack is rising up as much as the big dogs are coming down to earth. Keep in mind that the WIAC's current non-conference record is 26-8 (.765), which is a mark that other leagues certainly envy.

The WIAC people are saying in their room that it could be a six-team race this year for the league title, which, in a league that only consists of eight teams, is really saying something. But it'll mean that the league cannibalizes itself in league play, preventing anybody from building up really gaudy overall records and (presumably) negatively impacting their d3hoops.com Top 25 representation.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 30, 2016, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2016, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 29, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
Just saw the current rankings. Early rankings, but nice to have 2 NWC teams in the top 10.  Interesting that no UW-xxx team ranked higher than 21.  Anyone know what's happening there?

The WIAC has been completely dominated by two programs, UWSP and UWW, over the past several years. That's not the case anymore. UWSP is young and has trailed off in terms of overall ability, and UWW had what for the Warhawks was a really down season in 2015-16 (16-10, 7-7). It doesn't mean that the league is worse; in fact, it may be better than it's been recently, because the pack is rising up as much as the big dogs are coming down to earth. Keep in mind that the WIAC's current non-conference record is 26-8 (.765), which is a mark that other leagues certainly envy.

The WIAC people are saying in their room that it could be a six-team race this year for the league title, which, in a league that only consists of eight teams, is really saying something. But it'll mean that the league cannibalizes itself in league play, preventing anybody from building up really gaudy overall records and (presumably) negatively impacting their d3hoops.com Top 25 representation.

... and their at-large opportunities (like last year).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2016, 04:20:43 PM
Yup. And, less than an hour after I made that post last night, one of the two WIAC teams that isn't talked about as being one of the six contenders in that league, UW-Platteville, completely straitjacketed #6 North Central to the tune of 57-40 in NCC"s airplane hangar. The Pioneer almost cut the Cardinals' offense in half, as NCC was averaging 79.3 ppg coming into last night.

Don't break out your violins for the WIAC's misfortunes. That league is still made up of a whole bunch of very formidable teams by D3 standards.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerwatcher on December 01, 2016, 01:09:03 AM
I have lurked on this list for a long time and it looks like it's dying, so I thought I'd contribute.  I have been watching Puget Sound basketball and the NWC for years.  This year's Puget Sound team looks ok.  They are strong in the backcourt, and I suspect that they will hang with Whitman better than they have in several years.  They have a fine three (really four) guard attack, with skilled handlers and shooters on the floor all the time.  I watched a good portion of the game against St. Thomas, and they held up well until their front line was depleted by foul trouble/fouling out. By the numbers UPS has been ok up front, with an all hands on deck approach to rebounding.  But I think the Loggers lack the strength and size in the front line to compete with the top teams in the league unless those guards are shooting out of their minds. That means Whitworth.  I would be surprised if this UPS team doesn't make the league tournament.  The guards are good players and the front line guys are game. But the lack of size and strength up front will limit what they can achieve.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on December 01, 2016, 11:00:07 PM
From the land of things you may have known but I didn't...

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2016/12/whitman-got-the-blues
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 02, 2016, 12:44:52 AM
Quote2 NWC teams in the top 10

Oh, well, that would be why the d3 Brass is over on these pages.
Much respect, Brass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWWhX5BjVRw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWWhX5BjVRw)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 02, 2016, 12:59:11 AM
Linfield is 16-64 in conference play over the past 5 years...what brings you by?  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 03, 2016, 10:39:25 PM
Easy Rat.  We don't need Linfield people throwing their football record around.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2016, 11:26:34 PM
oh don't worry, those guys don't care enough about any other sport to actually post something on another board

Whitworth wins 91-79. Willamette played a good 2nd half and got within 6-7 IIRC after being down 18 at the half. Whitworth pulled away late to make it look a little less close than it was down the stretch.

Big game Tuesday...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 06, 2016, 03:22:47 AM
Too bad WW and WM play so early. It would have been fun to have them decide  the championship in the last week of the season. Tuesday night should be a good one. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 07, 2016, 01:17:31 AM
How long has it been since Whitworth wasn't either in the lead or tied for the lead in the conference?  I'm guessing 2008.  Whitman looks good.  It's been a long stretch of being top dog.  Let's see how they are as an underdog to at least one team.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2016, 09:19:35 AM
There was one ~4-5 min stretch early in the game where Whitman couldn't miss and Whitworth couldn't buy a basket that buried the Pirates. Whitworth was playing good D, beating the press, and then missing good looks. Whitman has a lot of guys that can shoot from outside and are great finishing around the rim, that may be the biggest difference between this years version and previous Whitman teams. After seeing parts of a couple Whitman games now, I would be shocked if they dropped the usual NWC conference game to an opponent they should have easily beat. This is the first year I've felt that way. Anyway, during that stretch Whitworth got into a 15 point hole and that was the game. IIRC when Whitworth finally stopped the bleeding, Whitman was shooting 80% from the field to Whitworth's 25% (like 0-5 from 3pt). Whitworth wasn't turning it over or taking too many dumb shots, but the Blues still managed to pull way ahead. I think the rest of the game showed that these are still two pretty evenly matched teams. The game in Spokane later in the year can't be worse...can it?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2016, 10:09:25 AM

I watched the whole game.  I'd agree that period early in the first half was the difference.  Whitworth didn't look ready for the pace Whitman was playing (which is strange, since they play all the time), made a ton of turnovers and never reacted quick enough as Whitman took them right at the basket.

You could still see Whitworth had the talent and experience to come back - they tried really hard, getting that lead down to single digits in the second half, but the deficit was too much.  Whitman was definitely the better team, although it's probably a closer disparity than the game indicated.  The return fixture will be interesting.

Whitman's style is really interesting - I'd love to see how it matches up with more disciplined sides from farther east - either a CCIW type plodding post-game or maybe a team like Babson that takes care of the ball really well.  Hopefully we'll see some of those matchups come March.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2016, 11:51:23 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2016, 10:09:25 AMWhitman's style is really interesting - I'd love to see how it matches up with more disciplined sides from farther east - either a CCIW type plodding post-game or maybe a team like Babson that takes care of the ball really well.  Hopefully we'll see some of those matchups come March.

I think that question has been answered many times in the past. You've seen it against Whitworth teams for the past 5-6 years, St. Thomas last year, etc. Their "style" didn't bother UWSP in 04 or 05, IWU in 06. Whitman doesn't have near the success against disciplined teams as they do teams they can force pace and turnovers. In fact, Bridgeland has dialed back the pressure against Whitworth over the last couple years and IMO the half court pressure has been more effective than the press that used to lead to those 100-98 type games they had in the past.

This is probably the first year, however, that Bridgeland has had a team as talented as the early 2000's UPS teams he took pretty deep into the playoffs. That's the real question, IMO. Does Whitman have the talent and depth to beat top tier teams that aren't bothered by the press and are quicker to cut off the lane when Whitman is on O?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 07, 2016, 11:53:32 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 03, 2016, 11:26:34 PM
oh don't worry, those guys don't care enough about any other sport to actually post something on another board

Go 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2016, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 07, 2016, 11:51:23 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2016, 10:09:25 AMWhitman's style is really interesting - I'd love to see how it matches up with more disciplined sides from farther east - either a CCIW type plodding post-game or maybe a team like Babson that takes care of the ball really well.  Hopefully we'll see some of those matchups come March.

I think that question has been answered many times in the past. You've seen it against Whitworth teams for the past 5-6 years, St. Thomas last year, etc. Their "style" didn't bother UWSP in 04 or 05, IWU in 06. Whitman doesn't have near the success against disciplined teams as they do teams they can force pace and turnovers.

Here's a classic example of that. (http://www.tommiesports.com/sports/mbkb/2015-16/stats/16ncaa4.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 07, 2016, 07:35:27 PM
Seriously...I'm looking forward to checking out some Linfield games this season and I plan on doing some video work for them as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 08, 2016, 08:08:36 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 07, 2016, 07:35:27 PM
Seriously...I'm looking forward to checking out some Linfield games this season and I plan on doing some video work for them as well.

+k
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 09, 2016, 05:56:44 PM
I'm hoping that Linfield can continue to make progress in men's hoops.  Seems that the team is more mature with only a couple of freshmen on the roster.  It is going to be difficult to compete with Whitman and Whitworth as they are two top national teams. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 10, 2016, 12:01:59 AM
Whitworth beat the Covenant Scots (I think they are from GA) 93-62. I don't know anything about the Scots, they were clearly overmatched though. Even so, some young guys got minutes tonight which is important. They need some of them to mature quickly if they want to beat Whitman in Spokane later this season. Ben College (Whit FR) led all scorers with 28 pts, he was 6-8 from the 3pt line
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 10, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 10, 2016, 12:01:59 AM
Whitworth beat the Covenant Scots (I think they are from GA) 93-62.

Yep. Their campus is on the northern edge of Georgia, just across the state line from Chattanooga.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 13, 2016, 12:28:38 AM
Quoteoh don't worry, those guys don't care enough about any other sport to actually post something on another board

I came on because it's basketball season and I want to see if LINFIELD might double the wins in one season again.

Ay, but if it's a joust you want, please be namin' the years of those PiRat women's Softball Championships.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 13, 2016, 09:18:28 PM
I look forward to your biannual contributions
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Wooster Booster on December 18, 2016, 07:21:10 PM
Hey.  Whitman broadcaster.  The Wooster player's name is Fan-EL-y.  A little pregame research, about three-minutes worth, would have told you this.  And there's no "University of Duke".
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 19, 2016, 12:27:00 PM
I'm not sure how you force 27 turnovers and only win by 1, but Whitman managed to do it yesterday against Wooster. The Blues got killed on the glass and didn't make the usual "throwing up a prayer in the lane" shots that they usually do. They also couldn't make FTs to save their lives. Good teams win even though they shoot like crap, Whitman is a good team but you don't win games like that on the road against better competition in the tourney. And the NWC rep will hit the road much earlier than any other similarly seeded team thanks to geography.

Whitworth beat La Verne 96-88. Had a stretch in the first half where they played better than they have all year, then just like our friends a little further south on Division St. (Gonzaga), they let La Verne creep back in. Whitworth has to do better job rebounding defensively. La Verne got way too many second chance opportunities. Luckily when you are as efficient offensively as Whitworth was for most of the game, it doesn't matter. La Verne isn't bad, probably equivalent to any team in the NWC that doesn't start with "Whit."  Could see them finishing 3rd in the SCIAC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 20, 2016, 03:01:36 PM
Whitworth beat Chapman 78-69 last night. I'd have to double check but I'd bet that was Whitworth's worst performance from behind the 3pt line this season. They shot something like 25-26% last night and were around 46% on the season coming in. Its one thing to have a bad night or for another team to take away the shot defensively, but Whitworth seemed to take a few too many that were early in the shot clock and far behind the line. Defensively they played well though and overall they were simply the better team. Haslam didn't play for the Panthers but with what he's done so far this season, I can't imagine him making a significant difference in this one. He's their leading scorer but its been a product of volume, not efficiency.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gosox on December 21, 2016, 11:21:56 AM
RAT...now that I see, looks like it may have been you I met and spoke with after the Laverne game..if it was, nice talking with you.  Have to agree about the Laverne game...they actually did not shoot well at all the first half and seeing Whitworth shoot 81.9% from threes for the first 15 mins was very impressive..then it slowed to a 69% (still don't know any coach in his right mind who would not want that!!!!)...Laverne came out 2nd half played with some more energy and made a little run....But as good teams typically do, they find ways to win....

Will be interesting to watch them this year....

Good luck to all...

Merry Christmas!! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 21, 2016, 11:36:51 AM
Linfield has a barn burner tonight vs Portland Bible. First I didn't know there was a Portland Bible College and second I didn't know they had basketball.  The PBC Wildcats currently stand 0-11.  It looks like they're not very good and Willamette could even beat these guys. 



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 21, 2016, 07:36:46 PM
Whitworth beat Alma 99-72. Shot 67% from 3 in the first half, 60% for the game. Whitworth played a really good game, in all facets, from start to finish. Alma is better than their record would indicate. Losses to North Central, North Park, Elmhurst, and Augustana aren't bad (ok maybe Elmhurst isn't a great team this year). They beat Wheaton. They aren't the elite 8 caliber team from Alma last year, but it's a good win.

Whitman v Marietta tomorrow night should be highly entertaining. Marietta should match up well with Whitman from a personnel standpoint, though there are some other top 10 teams that match up better from a stylistic/pace standpoint...will be a good barometer for Whitman. I don't think Whitworth fans should read much into the results though.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 21, 2016, 11:08:33 PM
Quote from: Gosox on December 21, 2016, 11:21:56 AM
RAT...now that I see, looks like it may have been you I met and spoke with after the Laverne game..if it was, nice talking with you.

Wasn't me but glad you enjoyed your encounter with another Whitworth fan/alumni/parent
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gosox on December 22, 2016, 12:41:12 AM
Hahaha...well with the small photos I met your "dopple ganger"...haha....Merry Christmas brother
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 22, 2016, 11:53:19 AM
'Cats knocked off Portland Bible 75-70.  Not sure if knocking off an 0-11 bible school by 5 is a good thing or not, but I'll take the win.  Hopeful the 'Cats can make hay against Redlands/Whittier next week before kicking off the new year headed out for the brutal Eastern Washington swing.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 22, 2016, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: Gosox on December 22, 2016, 12:41:12 AM
Hahaha...well with the small photos I met your "dopple ganger"...haha....Merry Christmas brother

If you met the John Tully, consider yourself lucky. WC11 certainly is jealous.

Redlands and Whittier will be good barometers for the Cats. For the conference's sake, hopefully they can knock em both off.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 22, 2016, 12:52:05 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 22, 2016, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: Gosox on December 22, 2016, 12:41:12 AM
Hahaha...well with the small photos I met your "dopple ganger"...haha....Merry Christmas brother

If you met the John Tully, consider yourself lucky. WC11 certainly is jealous.

I think if Tully was a basketball coach his primary offensive set would be the Four Corners.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 22, 2016, 07:28:25 PM
Wildcat 11,

I know Rat started it, but no football references on this board.  I come to here to enjoy WW's total domination of PLU and Linfield. I don't want this time of bliss to be ruined by thoughts of Linfield football.  That said, at least it was a game this year and I bet our basketball game with Linfield is not as close as the football game was.

While comparing football and basketball, does the total number of straight wins by WW basketball over PLU equal the record number of straight wins PLU football had over us all those years?  Glad to see that dark era over.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 22, 2016, 08:02:20 PM
Whitman beat Marietta. Bet that one Marietta homer on the top 25 talk thread is either overhyping Whitman or making excuses for the Pioneers. Gonna head that way and check out the melt. Very good win for Whitman and the NWC in general.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2016, 08:18:04 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 22, 2016, 08:02:20 PM
Whitman beat Marietta. Bet that one Marietta homer on the top 25 talk thread is either overhyping Whitman or making excuses for the Pioneers. Gonna head that way and check out the melt. Very good win for Whitman and the NWC in general.

According to Spence, the zebras stole the game for Whitman. ::)

At least he didn't rant that Marietta should be #1 if the voters weren't such incompetent buffoons. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 23, 2016, 08:23:13 AM

To be fair, that non-call steal that lead to the winning bucket would've been called a foul by 98% of referees.  We don't have replay, so it's hard to really know for sure.  The kid put the ball above and slightly behind his head to pass out of the press, the defender put both hands on the ball and pushed it (and the possessing players arms) back over his head until he fell on the floor, then took the ball and scored.

I think you can make that play without fouling - I'm not opposed to the call, just extremely surprised.  That is certainly a tough way to lose when the game was really pretty evenly matched throughout.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 24, 2016, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on December 22, 2016, 07:28:25 PM
Wildcat 11,

I know Rat started it, but no football references on this board.  I come to here to enjoy WW's total domination of PLU and Linfield. I don't want this time of bliss to be ruined by thoughts of Linfield football. 

Fair enough. I can honor that request.

In terms of Whitman...still doing a double take when I hear "The Blues".  I'm not fond of the reasons why they changed the name but I kinda of do like "The Blues" more than "Missionaries".   

In terms of the race for the NWC playoff, you have the Whits that are a lock for 1/2 so who do we like as the contenders for the 3/4 spots?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 24, 2016, 03:38:24 PM
Give me PLU and UPS though I honestly haven't paid much attention to the rest of the conference. I've seen a few L&C results that can't inspire any confidence...the rest of the Oregon teams should be in a battle to not finish last.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 27, 2016, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 24, 2016, 03:38:24 PM
Give me PLU and UPS though I honestly haven't paid much attention to the rest of the conference. I've seen a few L&C results that can't inspire any confidence...the rest of the Oregon teams should be in a battle to not finish last.

Last time the Oregon Schools took the top 4 NWC spots was in 99/00: L&C, Pac, Lin, Will. 



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 28, 2016, 12:37:13 AM
L&C may be just fine in the NWC after all. I know Wooster is not as good as they've been in years past, but beating the Scots is still impressive.

After the Whits, the rest of the NWC is incredibly inconsistent. You might as well throw darts at a wall to figure out who's gonna finish 3 and 4. It could be Fox and L&C just as easily as my guesses of UPS and PLU.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 28, 2016, 06:57:38 AM
Just for (509) Rat I might drive 25 miles to sit behind the LINFIELD bench and inspire them to some of A Buc Forever's Sis Boom Bah! this Th and Fri at Whittier.
My Catdome 365/24/7 tee shirt should suffice.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 28, 2016, 03:12:57 PM
I worry that if you're at the game coach Rosenberg's "win one for the Dens" speech won't be as effective...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 28, 2016, 04:03:34 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 28, 2016, 03:12:57 PM
I worry that if you're at the game coach Rosenberg's "win one for the Dens" speech won't be as effective...

Rosenberg: Well, boys ... I haven't a thing to say.  Played a great game...all of you. Great game.

(He tries to smile.)  I guess we just can't expect to win 'em all.  (Rosenberg pauses and says quietly).  I'm going to tell you something I've kept to myself for years -- None of you ever knew Dens O.C..  It was long before your time.  But you know what a tradition he is at Linfield...

(There is gentle, faraway look in his eyes as he recalls the boy's words).  And the last thing he said to me -- "Rose," he said - "sometime, when the team is up against it -- and the breaks are beating the boys -- tell them to go out there with all they got and win just one for the Dens...

(Rosenberg's eyes become misty and his voice is unsteady as he finishes).  I don't know where I'll be then, Rose", he said - "but I'll know about it - and I'll be happy."

There is a hushed stillness as Rosenberg and the crowd of boys look at each other. In the midst of this tense silence, Rosenberg quietly says "Alright," to the men beside him, and his chair is wheeled slowly out of the dressing room.

PLAYER # 12:  Well, what are we waiting for?

With a single roar, the players throw off their blankets and rush through the doorway.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 29, 2016, 10:23:33 PM
(wiping a solitary tear away)  I did not quite make it tonight.

So I thought I'd listen. Only video. I go to the Whittier site. THEY WANT $5.00!

Sorry Rose, you're on your own tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 30, 2016, 02:00:27 AM
Good win, 'Cats!  Bruil poured in 33 tonight for the 'Cats and 10 3-pointers as Linfield downed Redlands 70-58 to move to 7-3.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 30, 2016, 08:26:12 AM
Now I'm even more sorry I missed Maloof's "one steal off the bench." Woody Hayes would be proud.

http://www.linfield.edu/sports.html (http://www.linfield.edu/sports.html)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 30, 2016, 10:44:30 PM
Whitworth beat Buena Vista 90-80 tonight in Walla Walla.

Whitman beat Crown 105-57...they forced 37 turnovers...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 30, 2016, 10:49:48 PM
'Cats up at half over Whittier 28-27. 'Cats only shooting 38% but have 8 offensive boards and out rebounded the Poets 20-12 in the 1st half.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 30, 2016, 11:28:14 PM
Well, they quit rebounding when I got here at second half.
Website said 8 pm start. It was 7.
LINFIELD looks lost actually.
Whittier is not Chino Hills H.S. buy they shoot 3s like they are.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 31, 2016, 01:15:51 AM
Shoot...just hope for competitive efforts next week on the EW swing.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 31, 2016, 03:29:42 AM
You are correct, sir.
You can't let games like Whittier get away and get to 16 wins.
Come to play every game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: RFB on January 05, 2017, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 30, 2016, 02:00:27 AM
Good win, 'Cats!  Bruil poured in 33 tonight for the 'Cats and 10 3-pointers as Linfield downed Redlands 70-58 to move to 7-3.

Redlands stinks in basketball, but a win is a win.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 05, 2017, 02:30:30 PM
'Cats last win at Whitworth was on 1/20/2001.  Next win will be 1/7/2017!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 05, 2017, 05:01:51 PM
The Division III basketball season is back from the holiday "break" - though not much of a break for many of the teams - and with the start of the 2017 part of the schedule comes plenty to talk about. Upsets in the men's Top 25 and the shocking news at out UW-Stevens Point.

Thursday night on Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave McHugh tries to get everything wrapped up in the discarded Christmas wrapping left behind. Bob Semling suspended, Geneseo women deal with another tragedy, Top 25 teams sputtering as conference season heats up, and teams trying to make an impact from under the radar.\

Hoopsville hits the air at 7:00 PM ET. You can tune in live, watch it on Facebook Live, or catch-up on Demand here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/jan5

Tonight's guest list (in order of appearance):
- Daley Ryman, Sports Director, NewsChannel 7 (WSAW) - UWSP Suspensions
- Cheri Harrer, Baldwin Wallace women's coach
- Scott Hemer, SUNY Geneseo women's coach
- Chad Dickman, Hood men's coach
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 2 Whitman men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 06, 2017, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 05, 2017, 02:30:30 PM
'Cats last win at Whitworth was on 1/20/2001.  Next win will be 1/7/2017!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Flol%2FillK6U.gif&hash=821f3c1b0475eb5e5087d28c273d6ce88e24537d)

On tap for tonight
Linfield @ Whitman
Pacific @ Whitworth
Fox @ PLU
Willamette @ UPS
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 06, 2017, 06:43:05 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2017, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 05, 2017, 02:30:30 PM
'Cats last win at Whitworth was on 1/20/2001.  Next win will be 1/7/2017!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Flol%2FillK6U.gif&hash=821f3c1b0475eb5e5087d28c273d6ce88e24537d)

On tap for tonight
Linfield @ Whitman
Pacific @ Whitworth
Fox @ PLU
Willamette @ UPS

(https://media.giphy.com/media/TNOq5o37nNXX2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 07, 2017, 01:03:44 AM
Thought the 'Cats competed their butts off tonight against the Blues. 

Whitman is super talented but for a number one team in the country they sure don't draw much of a crowd. Maybe the reason is that the outcome was probably an foregone conclusion but I've seen more people at my kindergartner's soccer game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 07, 2017, 09:22:21 AM
Maybe they are still on break? If they don't have a Jan term then that's probably the case.

Watched the first half of the Whitworth game. Pacific was shooting around 70% and was something like 7-9 from 3. Figured they would cool off and Whitworth would win by 5-10. I woke up to find out that did not happen. Some minute distribution and lineup decisions by Logie are starting to become a little curious. Last night looked to be affected by foul trouble a bit, but that was mostly the bigs who got hit.

Well, they better regroup tonight. There is no reason can't do the same thing Pacific did last night I guess  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 07, 2017, 09:49:00 PM
Man....loving the 'Cats effort again tonight at Whitworth. 37-36 Pirates at the break. Maloof has been nails so far.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2017, 10:00:00 PM
Whitworth has a J term but at lots of schools that often means off-campus time and study abroad programs. No idea if it does at Whitworth.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 07, 2017, 11:02:23 PM
Well...damn...Rats were in control but Linfield kept battling and had it down to 4 with 29.8 left but Linfield's Hart lost his composure on this 5th foul and got a tech that sealed it for the Pirates.  Still, Linfield represented themselves well and I believe the program continues to head in the right direction. Go 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 07, 2017, 11:24:32 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2017, 10:00:00 PM
Whitworth has a J term but at lots of schools that often means off-campus time and study abroad programs. No idea if it does at Whitworth.

A majority of students are on campus at Whitworth during Jan term. It was Whitman's attendance that was brought up though...

Linfield played well. Sears didn't play tonight for the Pirates, not sure why, which means Bishop got way more minutes than he deserves. Linfield will win more conference games this year than last. They are deeper than they have been in recent years. That's not saying much but progress is progress. Pacific got their butts handed to them in Walla Walla.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2017, 11:57:27 PM
Need a facepalm emoji. Sorry about that.

Whitman classes start Jan. 17.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 11, 2017, 02:24:43 AM
Was able to catch the 2nd half at Linfield downed Pacific 73-58 at home. Lots of guys pitching in for the win and the 'Cats were great from the FT line (16-18).  Solid win for the 'Cats!

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on January 11, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
Interesting pick - one I didn't see coming:

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.html?id=6580&sport=gs

Nice job by the 'Cats last night.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 11, 2017, 06:42:23 PM
Quote from: catjumper on January 11, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
Interesting pick - one I didn't see coming:

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.html?id=6580&sport=gs

Nice job by the 'Cats last night.

As we talked about on the NWC FB board....GREAT hire by Linfield and Garry will thrive as the AD. Excited about his vision for the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 14, 2017, 01:19:13 PM
From Fri
L&C 59  Pacific 57
Whitm 87  PLU 71
Whitw 77  UPS 65
Fox 88   Willamette 83

Whitworth played another half of very uninspired defense. Similar to the way they played the whole game against Pacific. Though seeing Pacific continue to lose, I think you can chalk that upset more to dumb luck than the Boxers being some offensive juggernaut. Whitworth is still more talented than everyone else in the conference not named Whitman, but if they don't want to play D, they could very easily drop another game or two. Bridgeland finally looks to have a roster full of players that fit his system well. Unless Whitworth can knock them off in Spokane, they won't lose a game this season. The yearly "how did Whitman lose to them?" game isn't gonna happen. Apparently the Pirates decided to take that mantle from them...

PLU and UPS look to drop further down the standings after the Eastern WA trip. They will need to beat L&C and Fox as well as get some help from both the eastern WA schools and someone like a Linfield or Pacific. The Cats are better than they've been in the recent past, they are also benefiting from some lack of strength at the top of the conference IMO. I think the teams vying for 3/4 aren't as good as some of the UPS/PLU/L&C/Whitman teams of old who filled those spots in previous years. I guess Whitworth could finish 3rd, if they split with Fox...I just haven't lost that much faith in this team yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 14, 2017, 11:06:35 PM
Damn, great win Linfield.  Just a battle with Fox and their full pressure tempo.  Fox had chances to stretch out a lead under 10 in the 2nd half but Linfield kept battling.  Linfield was down 72-73 with with 13 seconds left and every one and their mom collapsed on Maloof and left Romeo WIDE OPEN on the wing for the 3 with 2.1 left and ballgame.

I have no idea how Linfield only out rebounded GFU's band of little people by 3 but doesn't matter. Moves Linfield to 9-6 overall and 3-3 in NWC play.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 15, 2017, 12:51:03 PM
Linfield's last possession via twitter:

https://twitter.com/KyleMaloof/status/820507587623849988 (https://twitter.com/KyleMaloof/status/820507587623849988)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on January 16, 2017, 12:38:21 PM
Great pass, great shot, great win.

The 'Cats have the toughest trip of the season out of the way and they've beaten two teams in front of them in the standings.  There's a long way to go, but for the moment things are potentially setting up well for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 21, 2017, 01:03:39 AM
Good win for the 'Cats tonight over the Bearcats.  Quickest the 'Cats have reached the 10 win mark since the 2002-03 season.  Looking forward to hosting PLU tomorrow!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on January 21, 2017, 06:06:09 PM
I went to the Linfield vs. Willamette game Friday night and found the 'Cats fun to watch. Given Willamette's record, I didn't expect much from the Bearcats but they were nowhere near as bad as I feared they'd be; they do some nice things with the ball and are really active on defense. They didn't have an answer inside, though, and Clark for the  'Cats was terrific - worked his tail off at both ends of the floor. You could see this Linfield group perhaps making things interesting by season's end.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 22, 2017, 01:33:12 PM
Fox is a bit of a fraud, but Whitworth played some of their best basketball all season. It will take that kind of defensive effort to beat Whitman in Spokane. A win won't change the fact that the conference tourney will go through Walla Walla this year, but it would be good for the psyche and possibly the resume for the selection committee.

After tonight, Fox, L&C and Linfield will all be sitting at 4-4, tied for 3rd. The second half of the season should have some great games. Everyone except for Willamette is alive for a NWC tourney berth. There are 6 teams who all have a legitimate shot at the #3 seed. Could be real entertaining around here if we had some representation from a school other than Whitworth (and now Linfield)...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 22, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
'Cats looked like they had a case of heavy legs vs PLU on Saturday night and Lester killed us whenever PLU need another hoop to push the lead back out.  Tough loss but excited for the 2nd half other half of the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 22, 2017, 09:45:29 PM
Just cannot lose those games.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 25, 2017, 12:47:12 AM
To state the obvious, the Pirates are a couple levels below Whitman. Whitworth has to learn to handle pressure better.  We had good looks, etc., but I think the pace and pressure brought our shooting percentage down.  Also, way too many turnovers. The Bucs have some serious off-season work to do to get back up to the top of the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 25, 2017, 11:34:26 PM
I think the difference in athleticism is glaring. I meant to the post this yesterday...I didn't watch much of the game thanks to work...but my prediction was that Whitworth wouldn't be able to survive even one 10-15 pt run by Whitman (let alone several). In the first meeting that was all it took, and Whitworth was able to basically go shot for shot with Whitman for the rest of the game, but they were never going to make up that kind of deficit with this team. Whitworth was going to have to keep it within 5-6 points all game. I didn't think the opening 8=0 run by Whitman last night was the end of the game by any means, but I figured that any other stretch of turnovers and missed baskets would turn into another 8-10 point run and that would do it. It happened early in the 2nd half, and that was the ballgame.

There is something wrong with this Whitworth team but I don't know what it is. And I'm not saying that because they are losing to Whitman, Whitman is a much better team than they have ever been and are a more talented team than the Pirates and a personnel nightmare. It can't just be that Valle is gone can it? Love just doesn't seem to be the difference maker that he should be, maybe him and Roach aren't great on the court together? Isaak has to have one of the worst assist to turnover ratio's of a starting guard at Whitworth in a long time...which would make you want to know why College doesn't play more (he's a MUCH better scorer) but his is worse, and he doesn't play much defense (though neither does Isaak). When you are as big as Sears, there is usually a reason you are playing DIII, it's like being a 6'5" 300lb offensive lineman, if you show even a glimpse of potential someone is gonna give you a scholarship. He's a step down from the Friedts and Montgomery's. Even Jurich would have eaten his lunch...standing at 6'5". The potential for this team seems to be there, they have fantastic stretches in most every game, then Mr. Hyde shows up. I can't tell if the poor defensive play is a lack of ability or desire, probably a combination of both. Sorry, that was a lot of random thoughts. Logie has some work to do...especially in the offseason.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 29, 2017, 04:46:58 PM
Man...great job by this Linfield team so far this year.  Been fun to watch their growth and excited to see them compete this next weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on January 31, 2017, 06:51:09 PM
Hey (509)Rat,  as we all know, every team is different with different chemistry and leadership.   I recognized a difference in this year's team from any of Logie's teams in the past right out of the gate. 

IMO, this team has been a little drunk on past success and plays too much like they expect to win just by showing up. The effort is there in fits and starts and the lack of it shows up in key areas of the game that continues to cost them mightily.  I can't begin to count the number of times they have been content to watch the ball and wait for it to come to them instead of going to get a rebound or fail to make the effort to get the 50/50 balls or exhibit a lack of discipline to stay on the ground on defense and pick up unnecessary fouls.  You can maybe get away with this when you're head and shoulders above your competition but that's no longer the case.

I know too that the coaches have been harping on this all year and just when the team seems to have turned the corner and then it seems to slip right back into bad habits.

No doubt, they are still a very talented offensive team but that will only carry them so far and typically in the tournament (if they make it) it doesn't take you far at all.  They are certainly capable of correcting these deficiencies but time is running out. It just might be a year when failure will be the only way next year's team remembers what it takes to advance and re-instills the effort and desire necessary. 

I hope I'm wrong about that...

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 02, 2017, 06:35:15 PM
Excited for Linfield's weekend but bummed this is happening during Jan Term break.  Odds aren't great but I would love to see Linfield upend at least the Rats.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2017, 08:30:45 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 02, 2017, 06:35:15 PM
Excited for Linfield's weekend but bummed this is happening during Jan Term break.  Odds aren't great but I would love to see Linfield upend at least the Rats.

Linfield will likely fall behind PLU and/or Fox this weekend, but they are in the driver's seat for a playoff spot with every other team still having to play the Whits. As long as the Cats don't fall apart down the stretch they will be playing in the NWC tourney again after a 6-ish year hiatus. Happy that WC11 has another sport to watch besides women's softball! Bridgeland won't stick around for too much longer, meaning Linfield even has a good chance of moving up into a perennial top 2 type program in the NWC  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 04, 2017, 12:56:31 AM
Rats looked great tonight and opened up a can on my 'Cats.  Whitworth's defense made everything tough on Linfield and the Rats shared the ball so well and knocked down open shot after open shot.  They looked every bit a top 10 team tonight.

Rat......I thought to myself tonight "So this is what other NWC teams feel like when they play Linfield in football."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 04, 2017, 08:31:32 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 04, 2017, 12:56:31 AM
Rats looked great tonight and opened up a can on my 'Cats.  Whitworth's defense made everything tough on Linfield and the Rats shared the ball so well and knocked down open shot after open shot.  They looked every bit a top 10 team tonight.

Rat......I thought to myself tonight "So this is what other NWC teams feel like when they play Linfield in football."

Exactly
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 04, 2017, 10:29:42 PM
If you have any interest in d3hoops you should tune in to the Linfield v Whitman game...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 04, 2017, 10:59:59 PM
What a choke job...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 04, 2017, 11:02:41 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 04, 2017, 10:59:59 PM
What a choke job...

Tried to catch the end of the Whitman game but got on just a little too late... tough day for the Blues? Are they in coast mode until the NWC playoffs?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 04, 2017, 11:59:21 PM
I only caught the part where Linfield peed down their own leg. It really wouldn't have mattered if the Blues had lost, maybe it's a good thing that they didn't. Hate to see them mad and extra motivated.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 05, 2017, 12:03:49 PM
Missed last nights game.....
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 11, 2017, 01:06:36 AM
 :-\ Tried to watch the WILDCAT - Bruin game Friday night.
Mostly edited Micro Soft Word while listening.
I'm just not up on Division III recruiting.

Again, I'm comparing everything I watch to Chino Hills High School....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnCFC-_CyYQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnCFC-_CyYQ)

Sign O the Times : Ballervision
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 11, 2017, 02:56:44 AM
Just got home from the Linfield vs. George Fox game - an entertaining evening, even if the outcome was disappointing for the 'Cats. By halftime, it looked like the Bruins were just a little bit the better team: a bit more decisive, a bit more precise. Most of the second half felt like Linfield looking for a way to stay in the game, and they did until GFU's little run with about 3:00 left that pushed it to an eight-point lead. But ... the 'Cats are getting there.

Now, what's the tiebreaker criteria for the potential logjam?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 11, 2017, 12:32:54 PM
Very good game last night.  Rico for Fox was just feeling it with that 35 he dropped and was the game's difference maker. Linfield's Maloof was also fantastic with 28. Great showing by the Linfield student body and it created a fun atmosphere.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 11, 2017, 11:14:09 PM
And there's your Northwest Conference "trap game" for the weekend ... setting up an interesting finish next week.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 12, 2017, 12:09:30 AM
Linfield just needs to beat PLU and they are in. L&C will pick up at least one loss, probably two next weekend, so will Fox, and they are already up a game on PLU and 2 on UPS (they would own a tiebreaker over UPS if they lost their next two given that they split with Fox and UPS was swept...Im pretty sure). If they lose to PLU, but beat Willamette and end up being tied with Fox and PLU, I don't know who gets the last two spots in the conference tourney. I just checked standings and schedules real quick so I could be missing something too and be wrong about the standings ending up in a tie for 3rd-5th.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 12, 2017, 01:58:24 AM
Thanks, (509)Rat - given the Linfield vs. PLU result in McMinnville, I'm mostly wondering about that scenario where it's the 'Cats, George Fox and PLU (and maybe L&C?) tied. I've been around high school conferences where if someone had a win over one of the higher-placing teams then they're in, then you eliminate that team and go head to head among the remaining teams, and around conferences where they just go head-to-head among all the tied teams, and so on and so on. (Warning: do not attempt to diagram that last sentence.) I'll be interested to see what the tiebreaker ladder looks like.

Of course, the 'Cats could just go ahead and win to get in, and that would be fine.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 18, 2017, 03:51:34 AM
If I did my math right, I believe we have our 4 tourney teams:
1) Whitman
2) Whitworth
3-4 tbd) Linfield & George Fox -- though obviously Linfield has a better shot at the 3 since they play WIL & Fox plays WM

So I'm guessing next weekend looks like:
Fox @ WM
Linfield @ WW

I don't think Fox or Lin are on the level of the Whits, so I'd guess it will be a WW/WM showdown for the tournament. I think both are safe to get into the national tournament, no matter the result. This is WM's year, so I think they take the tournament.

Thoughts on NWC awards?
Here are mine
POY - Howell (WM)
COY - Bridge

1st team
Jurlina
Roach
Lester
Lacey
Harrison
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 10:37:37 AM
I have not followed the league as closely as I usually do, but Pinecone's assessment seems about right.  WM is having the best year a NWC team has ever had.  WW 2010 went undefeated in league and won the tournament, but had a couple preseason losses.  UPS 2009 went undefeated in league, but lost the tournament.  Kudos to WM if they win out.  Bridgeland has put together an amazing program in Walla Walla.  WW is actually having a great year, but they feel like a distant 2nd to WM right now.  Hopefully they can get to Walla Walla for the league tournament final, take care of the ball, and get a big win. I agree with Pinecone. You would think WW's resume would be good enough to get into the tournament if they don't win the tournament, but you cannot count on it.

It will be interesting to see what the NCAA does WM wins out. Is there any chance they play at home in the first round?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 18, 2017, 11:07:23 AM
Congrats to the 'Cats on their first NWC playoff appearance since 2010!  Great progress by this program under Coach Rosenberg.

Yeah, I think that both Linfield and GFU might be annoyances next weekend but it comes down to the Whits.  Part of me would rather take the four seed with the way Linfield has played Whitman this season but just happy to see Linfield representing.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2017, 11:40:25 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 10:37:37 AM
I have not followed the league as closely as I usually do, but Pinecone's assessment seems about right.  WM is having the best year a NWC team has ever had.  WW 2010 went undefeated in league and won the tournament, but had a couple preseason losses.  UPS 2009 went undefeated in league, but lost the tournament.  Kudos to WM if they win out.  Bridgeland has put together an amazing program in Walla Walla.  WW is actually having a great year, but they feel like a distant 2nd to WM right now.  Hopefully they can get to Walla Walla for the league tournament final, take care of the ball, and get a big win. I agree with Pinecone. You would think WW's resume would be good enough to get into the tournament if they don't win the tournament, but you cannot count on it.

It will be interesting to see what the NCAA does WM wins out. Is there any chance they play at home in the first round?

There's no first-round byes anymore, so remember that Whitman would be hosting first and second round, a pod of four teams, not just one first-round game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2017, 12:14:00 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 10:37:37 AM
I have not followed the league as closely as I usually do, but Pinecone's assessment seems about right.  WM is having the best year a NWC team has ever had.  WW 2010 went undefeated in league and won the tournament, but had a couple preseason non-conference losses.

FTFY.  ;)

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 10:37:37 AMYou would think WW's resume would be good enough to get into the tournament if they don't win the tournament, but you cannot count on it.

Actually, I think that you can count on it. Whitman and Whitworth are currently #1 and #2, respectively, in the West Region rankings (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-second). As far as the other West Region leagues are concerned, the IIAC is a mess, with everybody beating everybody else left and right. There won't be anybody from the IIAC standing in line ahead of the Pirates on Selection Monday, should Whitworth fail to win the NWC tourney. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps was the only SCIAC team with a respectable W-L percentage -- the other criteria for CMS, including SoS, absolutely stink -- and the Stags are fading fast, having lost three of their last four. I don't see CMS beating out Whitworth for the honor of being the West Region's top Pool C candidate, unless the Pirates tank tonight against L&C and then lose in the NWC semis while CMS beats Chapman, Oxy, and the #4 SCIAC tourney seed, and then loses in the SCIAC tourney's title game. That leaves the MIAC, where #3 St. Thomas is currently the only regionally ranked team. If the Tommies somehow fail to win the MIAC automatic berth, while the Pirates somehow lose either to L&C or in the MWC semis, or both, then it's possible that UST could move ahead of Whitworth. But, even then, Whitworth would still get to the table pretty early in the Pool C discussion on Selection Monday.

The number crunchers over on the various Multi-Regional Topics boards all have the Pirates as either a lock or a near-lock for a Pool C berth. I don't really think that you have anything to worry about.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 10:37:37 AMIt will be interesting to see what the NCAA does WM wins out. Is there any chance they play at home in the first round?

Given the fact that Whitman's most likely going to be either the first or second seed in the entire bracket, let alone the West Region's #1, it's practically a given that the Blues will be hosting a first-weekend pod in Walla Walla. The NCAA is going to have to pay for at least two flights the first weekend, no matter what; either Whitman and Whitworth get shipped out elsewhere, or else two other teams get sent to eastern Washington, so it's both proper and economically feasible for the Blues to host.

Make plans to see Whitworth play somebody from outside the Pacific Northwest in the early game in the Sherwood Center on Friday, March 3, while Whitman hosts another long-distance traveler in the late game that night.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 05:05:54 PM
Glad you think WW is a lock, but we are the school that won the league in football and did not get a bid. 

WM deserves a home game.  However, it's a 3 hour drive from Spokane. The NCAA has not wanted p to make teams travel just to Spokane.  Now they have the Spokane flight and a 3 hour drive.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2017, 05:37:06 PM
The length of the drive is meaningless, unless it's over 500 miles, It's cheaper to pay for three hours' worth of diesel bus fuel than for a team's worth of plane tickets.

And, as I said, there will be two first-weekend flights no matter how the bracket is put together. Whitworth's within-500-miles proximity to Whitman therefore means that the Blues can get the hosting privileges they've earned, because it's just as easy to fly two teams into eastern Washington as it is to fly two teams out.

What happened to Whitworth football is irrelevant. Track the Pool C board on the Multi-Regional Topics tree, and see for yourself where Whitworth sits in the big picture.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Whatagame on February 18, 2017, 05:53:50 PM
Regarding hosting, the Whitman women's team hosted both the Regional and Sectional in Walla Walla in 2014, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2017, 08:12:47 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on February 18, 2017, 05:53:50 PM
Regarding hosting, the Whitman women's team hosted both the Regional and Sectional in Walla Walla in 2014, for what it's worth.

That was an anomaly that worked in Whitman's favor thanks to Christopher Newport. That pod was destined to be at Thomas More because there was a team on the eastern side that could easily drive to Thomas More. However, CNU upset Ferrum causing all four teams to be more than 500 miles from each other. Whitman was the top regionally ranked team (and best criteria) of the entire group, so the decision to send teams there worked out.

In 2004, Puget Sound was able to host the second weekend on the men's side despite the fact there were three flights needed. Both Stevens Point's men's and women's team were in position to host, but being an "even" year that gave the priority to the women. The other two teams were Sul Ross and Lawrence, so two flights were needed anyway. The NCAA either allowed the third flight or Lawrence wasn't in position to host (I can't remember the particulars). Stevens Point came out of the weekend by beating Puget Sound in the first game and then Lawrence in the second game.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 05:05:54 PM
Glad you think WW is a lock, but we are the school that won the league in football and did not get a bid. 

WM deserves a home game.  However, it's a 3 hour drive from Spokane. The NCAA has not wanted p to make teams travel just to Spokane.  Now they have the Spokane flight and a 3 hour drive.

Whitman is basically a lock to not only get in the tournament, but host. They would at worst have a 2-1 head-to-head advantage over Whitworth, not to mention SOS, WL%, and other criteria. And as Greg stated, what happened in football doesn't matter... especially since when you won in football there was no AQ at the time for the league. That was a long time ago. And how tournament selections were done then is (a) not the same as now, (b) has no bearing on decisions now-a-days, and (c) is a completely different committee with a very different bracket. Not to mention, the football team's resume and basketball team's resumes aren't even the same.

Now, Greg says at least two flights and I agree with him. However, I actually think the committee may have to stare down three-flights in the first weekend. Keep this in mind, if they can get a team to a site without a flight, they will. So Whitworth will head to Whitman. If two Texas teams get in, there is a chance they both fly somewhere, but the difference there is Whitman has far better criteria. Even with one loss, Whitman is in terrific shape to host the first weekend.

And fair warning, I don't see any way they host the second weekend. That said, we shall see what the bracket(s) look like in just over a week to know that for sure.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2017, 11:36:45 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2017, 08:12:47 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on February 18, 2017, 05:53:50 PM
Regarding hosting, the Whitman women's team hosted both the Regional and Sectional in Walla Walla in 2014, for what it's worth.

That was an anomaly that worked in Whitman's favor thanks to Christopher Newport. That pod was destined to be at Thomas More because there was a team on the eastern side that could easily drive to Thomas More. However, CNU upset Ferrum causing all four teams to be more than 500 miles from each other. Whitman was the top regionally ranked team (and best criteria) of the entire group, so the decision to send teams there worked out.

In 2004, Puget Sound was able to host the second weekend on the men's side despite the fact there were three flights needed. Both Stevens Point's men's and women's team were in position to host, but being an "even" year that gave the priority to the women. The other two teams were Sul Ross and Lawrence, so two flights were needed anyway. The NCAA either allowed the third flight or Lawrence wasn't in position to host (I can't remember the particulars). Stevens Point came out of the weekend by beating Puget Sound in the first game and then Lawrence in the second game.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 18, 2017, 05:05:54 PM
Glad you think WW is a lock, but we are the school that won the league in football and did not get a bid. 

WM deserves a home game.  However, it's a 3 hour drive from Spokane. The NCAA has not wanted p to make teams travel just to Spokane.  Now they have the Spokane flight and a 3 hour drive.

Whitman is basically a lock to not only get in the tournament, but host. They would at worst have a 2-1 head-to-head advantage over Whitworth, not to mention SOS, WL%, and other criteria. And as Greg stated, what happened in football doesn't matter... especially since when you won in football there was no AQ at the time for the league. That was a long time ago. And how tournament selections were done then is (a) not the same as now, (b) has no bearing on decisions now-a-days, and (c) is a completely different committee with a very different bracket. Not to mention, the football team's resume and basketball team's resumes aren't even the same.

Now, Greg says at least two flights and I agree with him. However, I actually think the committee may have to stare down three-flights in the first weekend. Keep this in mind, if they can get a team to a site without a flight, they will. So Whitworth will head to Whitman. If two Texas teams get in, there is a chance they both fly somewhere, but the difference there is Whitman has far better criteria. Even with one loss, Whitman is in terrific shape to host the first weekend.

And fair warning, I don't see any way they host the second weekend. That said, we shall see what the bracket(s) look like in just over a week to know that for sure.

Lawrence's gym wasn't big enough for sectionals in 04, if I recall, hence the NWC hosting duties.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 19, 2017, 12:07:23 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2017, 11:36:45 PM
Lawrence's gym wasn't big enough for sectionals in 04, if I recall, hence the NWC hosting duties.

Lawrence hosted a sectional in 2006, so that does not sound right.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2017, 12:16:03 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2017, 12:07:23 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2017, 11:36:45 PM
Lawrence's gym wasn't big enough for sectionals in 04, if I recall, hence the NWC hosting duties.

Lawrence hosted a sectional in 2006, so that does not sound right.

Maybe they didn't put in to host?  There was some reason it couldn't go there, but I also recall some fiddling with the "required" seating numbers around that time, too.  Didn't they lower the number they wanted from 1500 to 1000 at some point?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 19, 2017, 02:41:48 AM
"WM is having the best year a NWC team has ever had.  WW 2010 went undefeated in league and won the tournament, but had a couple preseason losses."

That's DIII talk.
Naw, naw.
I go back when LINFIELD went to the NAIA  playoff in Kansas City and lost in the 1st round every time.
10 years in the 60s.

They went undefeated in conference.
Some day again.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2017, 01:24:12 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2017, 12:07:23 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2017, 11:36:45 PM
Lawrence's gym wasn't big enough for sectionals in 04, if I recall, hence the NWC hosting duties.

Lawrence hosted a sectional in 2006, so that does not sound right.

No, this was correct. Between 2004 and 2006, the championships committee started deciding that clearing the gym between games was a way to let slightly smaller facilities host.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 21, 2017, 05:17:37 PM
2017 All-NWC Men's Basketball announced; Howell, Vickers and Rosenberg Earn Top Honors

First Team

G / Tim Howell, Whitman
G / JJ Lacey, George Fox
G / Kenny Love, Whitworth
F / Christian Jurlina, Whitworth
W / Jase Harrison, Whitman
G / Brandon Lester, Pacific Lutheran

Second Team

G / Austin Butler, Whitman
G / Kyle Maloof, Linfield
G / Kyle Roach, Whitworth
W / Jared Christy, Pacific Lutheran
G / Kohl Meyer, Puget Sound

Honorable Mention

G / Thomas Rico, George Fox
F / J.B. Ewell, Pacific
G / Joey Hewitt, Whitman
G / Andrew Vickers, Lewis & Clark
G / Riley Bruil, Linfield

Player of the Year  - Tim Howell, Whitman
Freshman of the Year  - Andrew Vickers, Lewis & Clark
Coach of the Year – Shanan Rosenberg, Linfield

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/releases/All-NWC-MBSK17 (http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/releases/All-NWC-MBSK17)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 24, 2017, 02:37:33 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 21, 2017, 05:17:37 PM
2017 All-NWC Men's Basketball announced; Howell, Vickers and Rosenberg Earn Top Honors

First Team

G / Tim Howell, Whitman
G / JJ Lacey, George Fox
G / Kenny Love, Whitworth
F / Christian Jurlina, Whitworth
W / Jase Harrison, Whitman
G / Brandon Lester, Pacific Lutheran

Player of the Year  - Tim Howell, Whitman
Freshman of the Year  - Andrew Vickers, Lewis & Clark
Coach of the Year – Shanan Rosenberg, Linfield

http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/releases/All-NWC-MBSK17 (http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2016-17/releases/All-NWC-MBSK17)

Well, I was close  ;D

I got POY & 4/5 1st teamers right (had Roach instead of Love...and though I think Roach has been better, Love led the league in assists and it's sort of a lifetime achievement, so I won't argue with that selection). I was way off on COY. As good as Rose has been at rebuilding Linfield over the last 4 years, only one team has been great this year. So as much as I can't stand to say it, Bridge deserved COY. Anybody seen Blackhawk? I would have thought he'd be all over this board telling us how Bridge is the GOAT (or maybe 2nd GOAT to Popovich).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2017, 02:53:06 PM
I'm a huge fan of guy who does the most with the least getting COY. But in a year like this where the rest of the NWC was down, it would have taken a win against the Whits for me to pick Rosenberg over Bridgeland. They climbed up the ladder and did what they needed to against everyone else but went 0-4 against the eastern WA teams, that's not enough with the year Bridgeland and Whitman had IMO.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 24, 2017, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 24, 2017, 02:53:06 PM
I'm a huge fan of guy who does the most with the least getting COY. But in a year like this where the rest of the NWC was down, it would have taken a win against the Whits for me to pick Rosenberg over Bridgeland. They climbed up the ladder and did what they needed to against everyone else but went 0-4 against the eastern WA teams, that's not enough with the year Bridgeland and Whitman had IMO.

I think that's fair but I'm not going to complain what Rosenberg has done and I think they will only continue to push forward as a program.  Congrats to both Whitworth and Whitman on their season and as they move forward in the NCAA's.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 24, 2017, 08:03:46 PM
Kumbaya
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2017, 12:50:11 AM
Whitworth and Whitman won. No surprises.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2017, 10:58:34 PM
White tied 36 at the half. This is a totally meaningless game but Whitworth needs to not get blown out again for their own psyche's sake. They'll be back again for a first round pod and will get one last shot at Whitman if they can win their first round game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 25, 2017, 11:57:31 PM
Whitman and Whitworth are in OT.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2017, 11:59:48 PM
Whitworth blew a chance to put em away, but I think this is all they really needed. They've got some tape on themselves playing better than Whitman and hopefully the confidence that goes along with it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on February 26, 2017, 12:12:27 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2017, 11:59:48 PM
Whitworth blew a chance to put em away, but I think this is all they really needed. They've got some tape on themselves playing better than Whitman and hopefully the confidence that goes along with it.

Whitman wins in OT. Great game. Whitworth was up 10 with something like 5 minutes left and couldn't put them away. Some bad TO's killed WW down the stretch. Credit to Whitman's pressure for that--though that was a quick 5-second count on Love. Other than a trophy, this game was meaningless. No doubt WW travels to W2 next weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pinecone_Curtain on March 03, 2017, 10:16:05 PM
Another underwhelming NCAA tournament for Whitworth. Love and Jurlina are so good, it's too bad they could never make a deep run in the tournament during their time at WW. A combination of bad luck (the waived off Love 3-pointer), poor free throw shooting...I think Roach missed 4/5 down the stretch, poor shot selection (what was Isaak doing shooting that corner 3?), and 3 straight offensive foul calls did the Bucs in. The 1-3-1 defense was really working for a while in the 2nd half, but they went away from it for a while and CMS pulled away.

I suppose the good news for WW is that Ben Nick and Ben College look like college-ready players. Those two plus a return of Roach means the 2017-18 Pirates will be a tough out. It's easy to second guess now, but it was pretty clear by the end of the season that Nick had probably equalled or surpassed Sears, and College had really overtaken Isaak, yet the older guys continued to get more minutes. The NWC looks like Whitman's for the foreseeable future. Good luck to the Missiona...uh, Blues the rest of the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2017, 10:55:13 PM
Whtworth gets an upgrade next year by way of subtraction. Sears and Isaak won't be missed. That game was representative of Whitworths season on the whole. Stretches of bad defense, poor shot selection, dumb turnovers, with consistent flashes of brilliance and potential (never lasting long enough to win big games). One or two good transfers will be needed to hang with Whitman next year. Whitman got a bracket that sets them up to go far, hopefully they get to Salem and represent the NWC well.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 04, 2017, 08:49:25 AM
Painful enough to lose in the first round to a SCIAC team, but to get beat by a team with a hipster point guard with a lumber-sexual beard completely blows.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 10, 2017, 10:42:53 PM
Whitman makes it to the elite 8 and doesn't have to play the home team from OH on their own court tomorrow (Whitworth fans know what I'm talking about). Not sure if Rochester or Marietta would have been a better matchup for Whitman, but the chips continue to fall right for the Blues to make a trip to the national championship game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CMSfan on March 11, 2017, 01:12:31 AM
Some nice press for the Blues recently:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/02/meet-the-only-unbeaten-mens-team-in-college-basketball-whitman-college/98656274/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/02/meet-the-only-unbeaten-mens-team-in-college-basketball-whitman-college/98656274/)

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/whitman-basketball-teams-enjoy-athletic-renaissance/ (http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/whitman-basketball-teams-enjoy-athletic-renaissance/)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 11, 2017, 11:53:03 PM
Congrats to Whitman!!!  Awesome job getting to the final 4.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 12, 2017, 01:53:00 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 11, 2017, 11:53:03 PM
Congrats to Whitman!!!  Awesome job getting to the final 4.
Win it all for all of the geographic orphans!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 17, 2017, 11:45:40 PM
To quote Mick, "Keith gots the Blues."

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 18, 2017, 11:12:52 AM
Didn't watch, just scrolled through updates on twitter. Sounds like Whitman controlled most of the game but a couple huge Babson runs was enough. Whitman doesn't lose anyone and I'm not sure Logie can keep up with Bridgeland on the recruiting trail. Anything less than breaking through to the title game next year will be a disappointment for the Blues. Bummer that they couldn't get it done but heck of a run and great representation for the NWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 18, 2017, 12:27:03 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 18, 2017, 11:12:52 AM
Didn't watch, just scrolled through updates on twitter. Sounds like Whitman controlled most of the game but a couple huge Babson runs was enough. Whitman doesn't lose anyone and I'm not sure Logie can keep up with Bridgeland on the recruiting trail. Anything less than breaking through to the title game next year will be a disappointment for the Blues. Bummer that they couldn't get it done but heck of a run and great representation for the NWC.

It was insane.  Babsons started the game 6-10 and found themselves down 13 because Whitman was shooting 80% and out-hustling the Beavers.  Babson made a switch on how they were defending Howell and Flannery started to find his opening and Babson closed it down.  Whitman came back from down 13 in the second half to within three, but the real difference was Babson's Charlie Rice.  He missed most of the first half with foul trouble, but he got a double-double in the second half alone - 13 and 10 - that physicality spurred the team to match Whitman's intensity and their superior offensive efficiency kept the lead.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 18, 2017, 01:40:53 PM
I wouldn't say Whitman controlled most of the game. They controlled a lot of the first half and had some moments in the second half... and their style clearly allows them to have what seems like control - it is more like they just have an affect on the entire game. Babson controlled a lot of the second half, for example. It was a very good back-and-forth game... much like Rochester-Whitman was, but with a clearly different result.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 18, 2017, 01:58:10 PM
Great job by Whitman to get a NWC to the DIII final four. They will be even better next year.  WW loses some great players, but hopefully some of the younger players will step up. Looking forward to next year.  NWC basketball is a lot of fun to follow.

Noticed the Babson Beavers have copied the Oregon State logo--just in green. Weird to see an OSU logo in UO colors.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 22, 2017, 03:15:30 PM
You think the OSU logo:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osubeavers.com%2Fimages%2Fmain_logo.png&hash=e5b19160402596559295290cd08fde59ad09e60b)

Is the exact same as Babson's?:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.babson.edu%2Fstudent-life%2Fathletics-recreation%2FPublishingImages%2Fathletics-beaver-2016.png&hash=20c4c62620e766837fd098c94df853a1557842f7)
I think there are similarities, but I don't think they are exactly the same by any measure. I would be able to figure out which is which without much trouble.

If you want to compare logos... and names... and mascots... Augustana (Ill.) vs. Augustana (ND). Same name, mascot, colors, and nearly the same logo... one of them (not sure which) at least switched the direction of the mascot face to differentiate.

Augustana (Ill.): (https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/scorestream-team-profile-pictures/teamPic11692-21279-zg4nfd.jpg)
Augustana (ND): (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/676412283950501888/dgF1b7bC.jpg)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 22, 2017, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 22, 2017, 03:15:30 PM
You think the OSU logo:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osubeavers.com%2Fimages%2Fmain_logo.png&hash=e5b19160402596559295290cd08fde59ad09e60b)

Is the exact same as Babson's?:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.babson.edu%2Fstudent-life%2Fathletics-recreation%2FPublishingImages%2Fathletics-beaver-2016.png&hash=20c4c62620e766837fd098c94df853a1557842f7)
I think there are similarities, but I don't think they are exactly the same by any measure. I would be able to figure out which is which without much trouble.

If you want to compare logos... and names... and mascots... Augustana (Ill.) vs. Augustana (ND). Same name, mascot, colors, and nearly the same logo... one of them (not sure which) at least switched the direction of the mascot face to differentiate.

Augustana (Ill.): (https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/scorestream-team-profile-pictures/teamPic11692-21279-zg4nfd.jpg)
Augustana (ND): (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/676412283950501888/dgF1b7bC.jpg)

The D2 Augustana basketball program is in Sioux Falls SD, not North Dakota. Both programs have more than what Dave mentioned, they both have ELITE basketball programs that are nationally renowned. Last they had the D2 Player of the Year in Dan Jansen who plays for the top league in Belgium currently. They also won the national championship in 2016 as well. When googling to get to each programs bball site, you have to put in "Illinois" or "South Dakota" otherwise it gets quite confusing!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 22, 2017, 03:26:04 PM
Thanks... I always screw that one up...

The best story was last preseason (2015) when Augustana beat a Big Ten team... we spent quite a bit of the night reminding those who thought it was the DIII institution who really won the game. LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 22, 2017, 04:28:27 PM
Yeah don't remind the IIAC faithful that Augustana beat the Iowa Hawkeyes 2 years ago now!!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2017, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 22, 2017, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 22, 2017, 03:15:30 PM
You think the OSU logo:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osubeavers.com%2Fimages%2Fmain_logo.png&hash=e5b19160402596559295290cd08fde59ad09e60b)

Is the exact same as Babson's?:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.babson.edu%2Fstudent-life%2Fathletics-recreation%2FPublishingImages%2Fathletics-beaver-2016.png&hash=20c4c62620e766837fd098c94df853a1557842f7)
I think there are similarities, but I don't think they are exactly the same by any measure. I would be able to figure out which is which without much trouble.

If you want to compare logos... and names... and mascots... Augustana (Ill.) vs. Augustana (ND). Same name, mascot, colors, and nearly the same logo... one of them (not sure which) at least switched the direction of the mascot face to differentiate.

Augustana (Ill.): (https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/scorestream-team-profile-pictures/teamPic11692-21279-zg4nfd.jpg)
Augustana (ND): (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/676412283950501888/dgF1b7bC.jpg)

The D2 Augustana basketball program is in Sioux Falls SD, not North Dakota. Both programs have more than what Dave mentioned, they both have ELITE basketball programs that are nationally renowned. Last they had the D2 Player of the Year in Dan Jansen who plays for the top league in Belgium currently. They also won the national championship in 2016 as well. When googling to get to each programs bball site, you have to put in "Illinois" or "South Dakota" otherwise it gets quite confusing!

The two Augustanas were also founded in the same year (1860) by the same population (Swedish immigrants) and have the same parent denomination (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America). Both schools also use the shortened name "Augie" as well. I don't know what it is about Lutherans and their college names, but between ELCA and its two Augustanas and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and its umpteen Concordias, their sense of imagination is somewhat lacking.

Fortunately for D3 fans who are trying to look up something on the athletics pages of the CCIW school, the Rock Island institution owns the name www.augustana.com ... while the D2 school has to settle for www.augie.com. Oddly enough, the D3 school has a bigger campus, a larger student population, and a lot more money than does its D2 namesake.

At least the D2 school in South Dakota made it a little easier on everybody by changing its name to "Augustana University" two years ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 24, 2017, 03:25:57 AM
Side by side the two beaver mascots do look different. My first take though was that they were very similar.  Pretty interesting stuff about the two Augustanas.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 28, 2017, 12:44:38 AM
Oregon State did look like Babson before they streamlined it about a decade ago.

Congratulations Babson Beavers.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 11:36:38 AM
Babson just changed their logo this year. It used to look like a running beaver for a long time... so still not sure how it related to Oregon in the past D O.C.

Old Babson logo: (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.babson.edu%2Fstudent-life%2Fathletics-recreation%2FPublishingImages%2Fathletics-beaver-2004.png&hash=54583162a5097624780e4b8176f21781443cae1a)
Old OSU logo (from what I can find): (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F1435619%2F2568.png&hash=832c873d21021a639b9e918eee07bc9dca56258f)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2017, 01:24:40 PM
Other D3 beaver logos:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3654918563/a1d28a2999f417a2612832e612a4841e_400x400.png)

Buena Vista

* * *

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D600%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D2lo42%2Frt818hid0jbp4chp.jpg&hash=0a9b0ef682e1b7197872b0cf403f33d1772c2cae)

Blackburn

* * *

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluffton.edu%2Fathletics%2F_ldp%2F.private_ldp%2Fa87645%2Fproduction%2Fmaster%2F8332bb40-dc9c-49de-8fdf-78d480134d5c.jpg&hash=a85b35999d4d99d6637ea8cf0f1545271aaeaf14)

Bluffton

("Beavers" mostly seems to be a nickname favored by schools whose names begin with 'B'. The only other institutions of higher learning in the U.S. that have that nickname are D2's Bemidji State, a juco called Los Angeles Trade-Tech College, and Oregon State.)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 05:04:36 PM
You for got MIT!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D400%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3Dajuy4%2Fmgpkg9n1k7diiyng.jpg&hash=2dfd64d60ac787bbd35b002fbe68b6e189a21b62)

While I get the "B" and Beavers theory... the one for schools like MIT it has to do with engineering.

Like... CalTech!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Beaver_logo_NEW.jpg)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2017, 05:36:41 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 05:04:36 PMLike... CalTech!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Beaver_logo_NEW.jpg)

(https://img.memesuper.com/085b669b16ea6121edd234852058364a_homer-simpson-doh-doh-meme_459-330.jpeg)

This is what I get for using wikipedia and control F to locate all of the various Beavers.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 05:04:36 PM
You for got MIT!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D400%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3Dajuy4%2Fmgpkg9n1k7diiyng.jpg&hash=2dfd64d60ac787bbd35b002fbe68b6e189a21b62)

MIT's athletics logo has a beaver, and the school's mascot is Tim the Beaver, but the school's nickname is the Engineers rather than the Beavers.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 09:19:56 PM
That's because at many engineering schools, the "mascot" of engineering is the beaver.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 28, 2017, 09:53:06 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 09:19:56 PM
That's because at many engineering schools, the "mascot" of engineering is the beaver.

Yeah, that's why, as a canoer, I hate beavers (AND Army Corps of Engineers).  Because they hate natural rivers.  There is a river route in northern Wisconsin that I took in the 60s - absolutely gorgeous river.  When my wife and I took it in the 80s it must have been 20-30 beaver dams and virtually no river.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2017, 10:05:04 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 09:19:56 PM
That's because at many engineering schools, the "mascot" of engineering is the beaver.

... for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 29, 2017, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 28, 2017, 09:53:06 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2017, 09:19:56 PM
That's because at many engineering schools, the "mascot" of engineering is the beaver.

Yeah, that's why, as a canoer, I hate beavers (AND Army Corps of Engineers).  Because they hate natural rivers.  There is a river route in northern Wisconsin that I took in the 60s - absolutely gorgeous river.  When my wife and I took it in the 80s it must have been 20-30 beaver dams and virtually no river.

DAM IT!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on May 21, 2017, 08:35:35 PM
How is the new PLU coach doing? 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2017, 05:20:20 PM
The Division III basketball season has begun and tonight Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) will hit the air for its 15th season!

In tonight's season premiere, Dave McHugh chats with the two preseason No. 1 teams, both national committee chairs, and gets an update on a new tournament featuring several Top 25 teams. Dave will also try and get everyone up to speed on the new season and take a look at what has already happened in early season games.

One thing fans may notice is no video for this season's debut. This is not a change in the production of the show, just a temporary decision. There has been a lot going on leading up to the premiere and not everything got up to speed in time. We hope to have actual video broadcasts return in short order. We appreciate everyone's patience.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE staring at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2017-18/nov16 --- or via the Facebook Live (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville) simulcast. If you missed any part of the show, you can watch it On Demand or listen to the podcast.

You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Bobbi Morgan, Haverford women's coach and DIII National Basketball Committee Chair
- Tim Pitzpatrick, U.S. Coast Guard Academy Athletics Director and DIII National Basketball Committee Chair
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 1 Whitman men's coach
- Carla Berube, No. 1 Tufts women's coach
- Ryan Whitnabe, Great Lakes podcaster and Great Lakes Invitational creator

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on November 17, 2017, 02:37:52 PM
QuoteHow is the new PLU coach doing?

So far he's PLU perfect. 1-0

GRAMMAR JOKE

By the way, ATN features Whitman prominently this week.

http://d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2017-18/old-is-new-again
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 19, 2017, 12:45:54 PM
You 'rats and ex-missionaries have fun on here until we take care of unfinished business in Texas.
Can't help notice Shannon's 2-0.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 25, 2017, 07:05:04 PM
OK, then. Got dunked in the tank down in Belton to end another football season.
4-0 start here. Let's see if we can ruin someone's season by taking a couple games people think we can't.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 27, 2017, 12:53:30 PM
Linfield's non conference schedule has been slightly more impressive than Whitman's (though Whitman has some better competition coming up over winter break). I think Linfield, Fox, Pacific, and UPS will finish 3-6 in some order. I expect Whitman to steamroll the Tacoma teams this weekend. UPS could give Whitworth a game, though I'm probably giving them too much credit for the win over CMS. UPS isn't holding opponents to any sort of impressive fg% and they are getting out rebounded...they have done a good job of turning people over though. I don't expect Whitworth to have an issue with the pressure but they can get pretty inexperienced when they get very far into their bench. I'm excited for the Whit game, Whitman is the better team as long as Howell is eligible but I think this group of Pirates matches up better with the Blues. Losing Sears and Jurlina was probably good in terms of matching Whitman's athleticism. And having Lester and an improved (defensively) College is better than having Isaak. Hopefully its a good series and not a couple of 20 point blow outs.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 01:43:38 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 27, 2017, 12:53:30 PM
Linfield's non conference schedule has been slightly more impressive than Whitman's (though Whitman has some better competition coming up over winter break).

Hang on. You think Linfield has a better non-conference schedule - though you do say slightly and hand Whitman the nod in the winter break???

Linfield's out of conference:
- Whittier
- Pomona-Pitzer
- La Verne
- Caltech
- Portland Bible
- Northwest Christian (Non-DIII)
- Evergreen State (Non-DIII)
- Portland State (Non-DIII)
- Stockton
- Central Washington (Non-DIII)

Whitman:
- Waynesburg
- Gallaudet
- Walla Walla (Non-DIII)
- Colorado College
- Occidental
- La Verne
- Redlands
- UW Stevens Point
- Ohio Wesleyan

Maybe because Linfield has FOUR games that essentially don't even count - even then they have most of those against "who?" teams - but of the two, I give the better non-con schedule to Whitman. They both aren't terrific, but I don't think it is that close.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on November 27, 2017, 06:53:59 PM
Roll 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 27, 2017, 11:35:31 PM
I said "has been"

Yes, I think Whittier, PP, LaVerne and Caltech is a better schedule than Waynesburg, Gallaudet and the 7th day adventists. As soon as Whitman gets into CC, some SCIAC teams and UWSP then they will finally have played  against someone that can stay within 20 pts.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 28, 2017, 01:33:21 PM
Lemme screen shot 5-0 while it still looks good.

What the weird Linfield photo-man said!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on November 30, 2017, 04:58:57 PM
Gonna try to be there on Friday for the Lin/Fox game. Hell, will see about trying to put together a little video too if I can get my schedule together.

Go 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 02, 2017, 11:21:00 AM
Wasn't able to make it (sick kid) but damn Linfield looks good this year. Great start of the year!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 02, 2017, 08:08:15 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 02, 2017, 11:21:00 AM
Wasn't able to make it (sick kid) but damn Linfield looks good this year. Great start of the year!

Whitman beat PLU by 57. We'll know how good Linfield is January 19 and 20...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 02, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
UPS with a choke job at home. Could have knocked off Whitman. Couple of teams that don't play any defense just slugging it out, very entertaining.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on December 02, 2017, 11:27:46 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 02, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
UPS with a choke job at home. Could have knocked off Whitman. Couple of teams that don't play any defense just slugging it out, very entertaining.

111 to 108... I should have tuned in for some of that. Entertaining is right!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 03, 2017, 11:23:53 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 02, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
UPS with a choke job at home. Could have knocked off Whitman. Couple of teams that don't play any defense just slugging it out, very entertaining.

Harrison and Wiggins are Whitman's two best defenders and they haven't played a minute this year.  I will admit, the guys on the floor were not playing much defense, although I do think Whitman is capable of it at full strength.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2017, 06:00:23 PM
Whitman better hope those guys add something when they come back. The UPS game highlighted Whitman's flaw (so far). Whitman is not out shooting its opponents despite 30-50 point wins. They aren't playing good half court defense and it almost burned them against the first team with capable guard play they faced. They are relying entirely on getting a lot more possessions than their opponents and you saw what happens when someone matches them in FGA
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 03, 2017, 08:39:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 03, 2017, 06:00:23 PM
Whitman better hope those guys add something when they come back. The UPS game highlighted Whitman's flaw (so far). Whitman is not out shooting its opponents despite 30-50 point wins. They aren't playing good half court defense and it almost burned them against the first team with capable guard play they faced. They are relying entirely on getting a lot more possessions than their opponents and you saw what happens when someone matches them in FGA

I mean, we know what they're capable of - when healthy, it's the same team as last year, which was pretty darn good - but it does look like the conference will push them to be better and more well-rounded.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 03, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
It's been 635 days...but FINALLY. (Long pause) BLACKHAWKS........HAS  commmmmmme BAAAAAAAAAACK....to Posting Up.

Sorry, that was my best "Rock" impersonation.

Look I didn't want to come back. I didn't. I always prided myself as someone who talked first and let the results speak for themselves. I was content to ride into the sunset. But I saw the NWC board dying, my friends, and I thought to myself, "not now." Not when WMN is poised to win a national title.

To all of you newbies, my name is Blackhawks4, and it is my pleasure to host you.

You can check out my posting profile, but for the cliff notes version , I am the man who proclaimed on February 7, 2014 that "Bridgeland was the best coach in the country."

Only to be mocked...repeatedly..for....years...and years.

Still funny??

No seriously, is it funny?

Yes, I'm the man who saw it, before it was "it."

Go back and read the commentary from that date, you will see.

And if you don't want to read the commentary, let's let the stats talk for themselves. Go ahead and google Whitman's record prior to the Bridgeland.

In 2014 I said that WW had platueud. Not only platueud...was regressing. And that "I was tired of the same ole' beat the SCIAC, lose in the sweet 16."

I was the guy who said that Whitman would one day rule the NWC, just as UPS did when bridgeland took over.

Gentlemen...it's good to be back!

Ryan Scott, we appreciate some love to the NWC, but let's set the record straight. "They aren't playing any defense?" When someone is pressing you, you have two options, slow it down or play with them.

And have you watched WMN play before? Ever???!  Austin Butler has been the best defensive player on the team for 3 years. Not even close. How could you omit this???!

BTW, for anyone who actually watches D3 hoops, Butler is the best player in the country.  Last time I checked, this was 2017, and basketball isn't still ppg.  Anybody seen "Moneyball?"

Rat, honestly man, read back 3 years,  or 2 years....or 1...what credility do you have? (You saw mine up above). You said "Whitman better add something when they come back?"

Seriously?!

WMN is a cake walk to 16-0 in the NWC.

We will just let the stats beat your credibility up...again.

Whitman had everything and the kitchen sink thrown at them by a talented, well coached UPS team.

Whitman 16-0, WW 13-3, UPS 11-5, Lin 10-6.

Gentlemen, great talk! Look forward to an eventful season ahead


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 04, 2017, 10:09:07 PM
I just can't believe LINFIELD lost a game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 06, 2017, 12:28:26 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 04, 2017, 10:09:07 PM
I just can't believe LINFIELD lost a game.

Boxers have started off the year strong. NWC has 7 teams with a winning record at this point.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2017, 05:20:33 PM

The NWC is working hard to play lots of actual d3 teams this year and it's paying off for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2017, 11:09:00 AM
Whitworth has been scheduling good non conference d3 games for 10-15 years now. Bridgeland led Whitman has been following suit. The rest of the conference seems content most years on playing all of the non d3 WA and OR teams. The increase in SCIAC opponents this year has been nice, and with that conference being a total mess its made the NWC look better. I do think with a great Whitman team, a better than expected Whitworth team, and improved UPS/Linfield/Pacific programs from recent years that the NWC is probably stronger than it's been in awhile. That includes Lewis and Clark having the worst team they've had in a loooong time.

I'm just glad blackhawks is back. By far the most entertaining part of this forum  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 10, 2017, 07:29:54 PM
Whits both beat Colorado College this weekend

Good thing Linfield scheduled Northwest Christian (and won), to break up what would otherwise be 5 straight losses...before getting back into NWC conference play next year
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 11, 2017, 12:29:05 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 10, 2017, 07:29:54 PM
Whits both beat Colorado College this weekend

Good thing Linfield scheduled Northwest Christian (and won), to break up what would otherwise be 5 straight losses...before getting back into NWC conference play next year

Didn't feel great to be Evergreen State's first victory of the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on December 11, 2017, 03:25:26 PM
Look at Evergreen State's mascot. I guarantee you'll smile.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AppletonRocks on December 21, 2017, 07:02:37 PM
Very nice broadcast by Willamette and Mike Allegre.  #HailTitans #GoPackGo
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 24, 2017, 04:42:05 PM
Other than Late Feb/March, next week is the most exciting week of the b-ball year. Whitman returns to the scene of the crime (3 years ago) in Vegas to take on Stevens Point in game 1, and Ohio Wesleyan in game 2. Will be the biggest challenges of the year for them. I'm curious to see how they stack up. Last year was an incredible run for WMN and put the NWC on the map as a legitimate contender to win a national title. But I still want some validation that it wasn't just a run, and that WMN has arrived. A win over Ohio Wesleyan would seem to solidify that. I wonder what odds vegas would put on the WMN-Ohio Wesleyan game...

Occidental is pretty good this year and gave Whitman a run for their money. I'd expect them to come out of the SCIAC. Any SCIACers or anybody at all have any idea what happened to Claremont?! They were actually really good last year, and their starting point guard  was toughhh.

WW fielding its worst team in 10 years and is clearly in recession. Saw they dropped to Calvin. Be interesting to see what they do on their next one.

WW will get up for WMN (as everyone will). I know I said WMN was a "cake walk" to 16-0, but there is a reason they play the games, and as far as NWC games go, both WW games, @ Pacific, @Linfield strike me as potential traps


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 25, 2017, 02:51:17 PM
Geesh, long way to climb back.
LINFIELD used to be able to hang with Portland State.
Pacific was but a road bump.

Merry Christmas Team.
Come back strong
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: smedindy on December 31, 2017, 12:16:39 AM
Linfield played pretty well in an exhibition (for them) at CWU. They held the hosts scoreless for over 10 minutes in the second half.

http://wildcatsports.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=5319
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 31, 2017, 11:23:10 AM
WMN tops Ohio Wesleyan by 2. Thoughts:

1. A win against nationally ranked Ohio Wesleyan is always a good thing. But WMN will have to be a whole lot better come March if they want to be back where they were last year. Could have gone either way, but WMN snuck this one out

2.Not overly impressed by OW. Not sure they end the year in the top 25. Rely way too much on the 3, and played a bad zone defense much off the game. Didn't seem to me to have the players top teams at this level do (their pg is small—but a good player). If I'm comparing OW to the teams WMN played last year (Marietta, Claremont, Babson, others in tourney), this OW team was not as good.

3. Can pretty much set my alarm clock for March and sleep through conference play.

4. WMN should have at least 3 first teamers in NWC—Howell, Hewitt, Butler. The coaches won't vote 4 WMN players in top 6, so Jack Stewart probably a 2nd teamer.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 31, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
Any word on Lester? He's been out the last two games.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 02, 2018, 10:18:17 AM
Lester has an MRI today on his knee...hopefully nothing major.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 02, 2018, 11:04:22 AM
Quote from: smedindy on December 31, 2017, 12:16:39 AM
Linfield played pretty well in an exhibition (for them) at CWU. They held the hosts scoreless for over 10 minutes in the second half.

http://wildcatsports.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=5319

Been a long break for the the 'Cats.  Hope they can get it rolling tonight with Willamette. Should be a good one.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 02, 2018, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on January 02, 2018, 10:18:17 AM
Lester has an MRI today on his knee...hopefully nothing major.

Hopefully. I don't think they can beat Whitman in Walla Walla with him, let alone at home without him. Roach can take over a game against the rest of the NWC but there aren't many other consistently reliable players on the court at any given time without Lester.

I think Whitworth should go small for 10-12 min a game instead of trying to spell Bishop with Reed Brown. I know he's a freshman...but he's been awful almost every chance he's gotten. Brown is only 6-6, there has to be a couple guys that are more athletic (they can't shoot any worse).

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2018, 09:26:15 AM
Interesting article about UPS, Lunt, and "the system."

http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/382910-268880-buzz-about-the-buzzsaw


They talk about Portland State in the article. They don't play "the system" but they are up tempo and press the whole game--even after misses. Portland State gave some big programs a tough time but they are 1-2 in the Big Sky right now. UPS is 8-3 but 1-2 in the the NWC (granted those 2 were the Whits). Will be interesting to see if it will work in league games when people have time to prepare for it. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 10, 2018, 01:58:49 AM
I went to google machine tonight and typed in "things that take less than 10 seconds."  Here's the results:

Fold your shirt like a ninja.
Peel Garlic the Super Fast & Easy Way.
Tie Your Shoelace.
Solve a Rubiks Cube (In Just 2 Moves…)
Fill & Tie 100 Water Balloons.
Multiply Using a Simple Hand Trick.
Deseed a Pomegranate.
Tie a Tie.

Now some of these (for example "Solve a Rubiks Cube" and "Deseed a Pomegranate")....I'm not so sure can be done in just 10 seconds. 

But what I am sure of is that I could do all of these things, combined, before Whitworth could get the ball over half court. 

Seriously I haven't seen that many 10 second violations in all of the basketball that I have ever watched in my entire life.  I found myself wondering if they knew it was a rule.

A lot of you guys on the board might be too young to remember, but Whitman/Whitworth used to be a big game.  Used to look forward to it.  Used to be a rivalry. 

And speaking of WW, how are coaches ranking them #3 in the country?  It defies logic.  I've been saying this for how many years?  They haven't made it into the sweet 16 in eternity.  Never proven themselves better than anybody nationally other than the SCIAC's best team. And they are worse this year than they have been in a decade.  I think Occidental is better than WW this year.

They did come to play the 1st half of the game though.  Looked well prepared.

That Roach kid can play--he's on my first team.  College is a 2nd teamer.

Kenny Love was wearing the best uniform I've ever seen on him.  A suit...as a coach...on the bench...not able to torment me in my dreams anymore.

Austin Butler will take the ball from you and then he will go down the court and dunk it.

Howell, Hewitt, and Trevor Osborne had nice games.  So did Cedric Jacobs Jones.

Playoff teams are WMN, UPS, WW, and Linfield.

That top 25 is starting to resemble top 25's of the past.  Teams like Williams, Augustana, Wisconsin schools, Wash U. interest me--havent seen them play this year


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: deiscanton on January 10, 2018, 05:10:39 AM
I wanted to watch the Whitworth-Whitman game on-line last night, but I live on the East Coast and was very sleepy last night.  Forgot to set the alarm clock for just before 11 PM Eastern.  By the time I woke up, it was just after 1 AM Eastern, and the game was already over.  I wanted to see a full replay through the on-demand function this morning, but Whitman is now password-protecting their archived Northwest Conference games now that conference play is underway.  I guess that I am stuck reading the box score and play by play.😢

Would the game have been closer if Jordan Lester of Whitworth had been able to play last night?  Just wondering.... 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 10, 2018, 11:19:47 AM
Didn't stay up to watch the game. Whitworth still without their best player, I'm not sure anyone is surprised by the outcome. Without Lester they don't have a chance of beating Whitman at home but they are still better than the rest of the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2018, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 10, 2018, 11:19:47 AM
Didn't stay up to watch the game. Whitworth still without their best player, I'm not sure anyone is surprised by the outcome. Without Lester they don't have a chance of beating Whitman at home but they are still better than the rest of the conference.

Lester would've improved Whitworth's turnover numbers, but I don't think it would've changed the outcome.  Whitman shot so poorly in the first half and only had a six point deficit - the outcome wasn't really ever in doubt.  I could see a full-strength Whitworth team beating Whitman under the right circumstances, but Lester is out for the year, so we won't get the chance to see it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 10, 2018, 04:03:28 PM
I could see Whitworth beating Whitman at Whitworth... but it would be a nail-biter. I agree with Ryan that I never sense Whitworth had what it took to win last night and Lester I don't think would have made that big a difference.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2018, 11:51:05 AM
Whitworth doesn’t have the talent this year. They played as perfect of a half as they could have, and then lost by 17.

Agree with both of you that they could knock WMN off at WW. 20% chance I say.

Unfortunate that Lester is hurt—feel bad for anyone in that situation. All these kids put a lot in to get here. You only get a few years to play college hoops and with the cost of these schools, even those who take a medical redshirt (not Lester scenario obviously) can’t hang around for another year.

Let’s not forget that Whitman has 2 starters who were huge pieces last year, out for the entire year with injuries- Jase Harrison and Jojo Wiggins. So if we’re going to play “could they win with this guy,“ we need to consider both sides. One thing that Bridge and Airy have done through recruiting efforts is be deep enough to withstand those huge losses of starters and still put 4 all conference guards in the starting lineup

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 18, 2018, 04:57:32 PM
It is already the midway point of January. In a month's time, we will be looking at conference tournaments and discussing who has a chance to make the NCAA tournaments. However, there is still a lot of basketball to be played and many teams are starting to take the turn into the second half of conference play.

On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave will chat with a number of guests to get a landscape of where things are in Division III. The conversation will include checking in at the NCAA Convention where legislation will be voted on by DIII members and conferences on whether to start the season a week earlier.

Dave then talks to some of the hotter teams in the country. Two women's programs (ranked and unranked) who are leading their respective conferences and looking to build on recent success. Also two men's programs one of which is not in the spotlight as much as they traditionally are along with a program we haven't talked to in a number of years.

This week's WBCA Center Court will feature a women's coach who is doing what she can to spread the word about women's basketball including giving more of her time to make sure her colleagues are taken care of and heard.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://bit.ly/2DmSR9D

You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- James Wagner, CSAC Assistant Commissioner
- Bobby Hurley, Stevens men's coach
- Kris Huffman, No. 9 DePauw women's coach
- Polly Thomason, Texas-Dallas women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Matt Logie, No. 7 Whitworth men's coach
- Ashlee Rogers, Marymount women's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2018, 07:50:43 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2018, 11:51:05 AM
Whitworth doesn't have the talent this year. They played as perfect of a half as they could have, and then lost by 17.

Agree with both of you that they could knock WMN off at WW. 20% chance I say.

Unfortunate that Lester is hurt—feel bad for anyone in that situation. All these kids put a lot in to get here. You only get a few years to play college hoops and with the cost of these schools, even those who take a medical redshirt (not Lester scenario obviously) can't hang around for another year.

Let's not forget that Whitman has 2 starters who were huge pieces last year, out for the entire year with injuries- Jase Harrison and Jojo Wiggins. So if we're going to play "could they win with this guy," we need to consider both sides. One thing that Bridge and Airy have done through recruiting efforts is be deep enough to withstand those huge losses of starters and still put 4 all conference guards in the starting lineup

Logie said on Hoopsville they were hoping for a medical redshirt for Lester.  I guess we'll have to see.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 20, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Great effort by the 'Cats tonight but the Blues are just too much at the end. Fun game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2018, 11:14:37 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 20, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Great effort by the 'Cats tonight but the Blues are just too much at the end. Fun game.

Linfield played well.  They have significantly improved over the past few years--since that coach arrived. If Trevor Osborne doesn't go 6-6 from 3, and instead goes 4-6, Linfield wins by 2.  I'm curious to see their program develop over the next 2 years--think they will keep getting better.

Just got done listening to the most one-sided broadcast in history in Willamette.  Apparently the officials are to blame for the 20 point loss.  Willamette was actually a decent team--should challenge for the payoffs.  They've got 2-3 quick guards and a taller wing #0--who can play a little bit.  Looks like most are seniors though.

Another nice game from Trevor Osborne--can flat out shoot it.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 20, 2018, 11:15:39 PM
Whitworth and Whitman win again tonight. Linfield not ready for the big show but should be able to hang on to a tournament spot through the back half of the conference schedule. Lewis and Clark is the best team that has zero shot at the conference tourney, I think they'll be the one to ruin it for one of the teams sitting 3-5 (Pacific/UPS/Linfield).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2018, 11:30:45 PM
How is Occidental 14-2 (with losses to Whitman in a nail biter and a non D3 team) and receiving 2 votes for Top 25 and WW is #7 in the country?  Apparently none of the voters watch hoops on the west coast. 

Also looks like Claremont has figured it out again.  But those early nonconference losses (two to Wisconsin schools and to Puget Sound and Fox) have put the nail in coffin for an at-large bid
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2018, 11:30:45 PM
How is Occidental 14-2 and receiving 2 votes for Top 25 and WW is #7 in the country?  Apparently none of the voters watch hoops on the west coast.

Also looks like Claremont has figured it out again.  But those early nonconference losses (two to Wisconsin schools and to Puget Sound and Fox) have put the nail in coffin for an at-large bid

A couple things are keeping Oxy off a lot of ballots in my opinion and keeping WW so high on other ballots:

1. The SCIAC isn't the strongest conference, especially compared to its west coast counterpart NWC, this year with CMS stumbling mightily out of the gate like you noted.
2. Their non-conference schedule leaves ALOT to be desired with some non-D3 squads and no signature wins. Their best result is probably a 4 point loss home against Whitman.
3. Whitworth has been good in previous years and started high in the preseason. For better or for worse, some pollsters have been slow to make changes in their top 25. Especially when they have some solid wins at UPS and home against North Central (Ill.) and the only two losses are to Whitman and a very solid CCIW team, Wheaton.
4. Finally, with the injury to Lester, I'm not sure how much they take that loss into account. Because at the start of the season with him available they were definitely tougher team to beat.

With that said, I moved down WW in my personal ballot this past week quite a bit, so I get where you are coming from.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2018, 11:31:19 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2018, 11:30:45 PM
How is Occidental 14-2 (with losses to Whitman in a nail biter and a non D3 team) and receiving 2 votes for Top 25 and WW is #7 in the country?  Apparently none of the voters watch hoops on the west coast. 

Also looks like Claremont has figured it out again.  But those early nonconference losses (two to Wisconsin schools and to Puget Sound and Fox) have put the nail in coffin for an at-large bid

Oxy has been on my radar from day 1.  They looked great against Whitman and I'd love to be voting for them.  Unfortunately, until they provide a little more consistency, it's going to be tough.  They're picking it up in conference and well on their way to getting my vote, but they had too many close games against teams a Top 25 squad should squash.  There are probably, especially this year, 100 teams (or more) who could be anyone on a given night - the problem is figuring out which teams are maintaining the level of play necessary to do it consistently and against top level opponents.

Oxy's got all the makings of one of those teams, but they need to prove it a little more - at least for me.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:33:34 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
The SCIAC isn't the strongest conference, especially compared to its west coast counterpart NWC, this year with CMS stumbling mightily out of the gate like you noted.

Historically speaking the NWC has been better, but also remember that the SCIAC champ ended Whitworth's season last year (in Eastern Washington)

Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
Whitworth has been good in previous years and started high in the preseason. For better or for worse, some pollsters have been slow to make changes in their top 25. Especially when they have some solid wins at UPS and home against North Central (Ill.) and the only two losses are to Whitman and a very solid CCIW team, Wheaton.

In a decade, WW has never advanced into the sweet 16, yet they continually get ranked as one of the 16 best?  Doesnt make sense.

And just to make sure I'm reading this right, we're justifying the #7 WW ranking with wins over unranked UPS and North Central Illinois, and a loss to unranked Wheaton?


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:43:45 AM
Fair points regarding Oxy.  Oxy vs Claremont will be interesting.  Claremont stumbled out of gate but also looks like their starting pg and preseason All-American (Scarlett) missed the first 4 games. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 21, 2018, 11:58:32 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:33:34 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
The SCIAC isn't the strongest conference, especially compared to its west coast counterpart NWC, this year with CMS stumbling mightily out of the gate like you noted.

Historically speaking the NWC has been better, but also remember that the SCIAC champ ended Whitworth's season last year (in Eastern Washington)

One good team does not a strong conference make.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:33:34 AM
In a decade, WW has never advanced into the sweet 16, yet they continually get ranked as one of the 16 best?  Doesnt make sense.

And just to make sure I'm reading this right, we're justifying the #7 WW ranking with wins over unranked UPS and North Central Illinois, and a loss to unranked Wheaton?

That is actually wrong. In 2013-14 they made it to the Sweet 16 and lost to Texas-Dallas. In 2012-2013 they made it to the Sweet 16 and lost to Mary-Hardin Baylor. In 2011-2012 they made it to the Sweet 16 and lost to VA Wesleyan. That is three straight years of making the Sweet 16, now they couldn't get over the hump and make it to the Elite 8 or Final 4. However, they have made the NCAA tourney for 8 straight years, dating back to 2009-10. Pretty impressive streak which I'm sure is one of the longest in the nation.

http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/archive

With that said, I don't think Whitworth should be ranked #7. I was purely pointing out the possible reasons they are up there in the top 10. I do however, think that Whitworth should be ahead of Oxy, and although those teams are 'unranked' that I cited in regards to WW schedule, they are results versus darn good unranked teams that makes the resume for the Pirates better than the resume for the Tigers currently, in my opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 21, 2018, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:43:45 AM
Fair points regarding Oxy.  Oxy vs Claremont will be interesting.  Claremont stumbled out of gate but also looks like their starting pg and preseason All-American (Scarlett) missed the first 4 games.

Yeah this is very true. It seems like CMS has played better since having him return, but I think the damage has already been done in regards to their Pool C chances.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
You are correct, Smitty, and I misspoke.  WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--which led to my argument that they shouldn't be ranked in the top 16 teams, with a decade long history of showing that they are not there.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Claremont win the SCIAC.  They were REALLY good last year and return similar team. If Claremont wins and gets the auto bid, then you have Oxy looking for a pool c bid.  Now in my opinion, Oxy is better than WW.  BUT, if WW finishes conference 14-3 (all 3 losses to WMN), they will also be looking for pool C bid also.  And they will get it all day over Oxy.




Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 21, 2018, 05:05:51 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--

Swing and a miss
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2018, 07:07:36 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:43:45 AM
Fair points regarding Oxy.  Oxy vs Claremont will be interesting.  Claremont stumbled out of gate but also looks like their starting pg and preseason All-American (Scarlett) missed the first 4 games.

I've got Oxy at #34 right now, after figuring this week's ballot.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2018, 12:38:50 AM
Right in time for Occidental to play at Cal Lu, and then square off with Claremont twice. Would be surprised if they  come out of that unscathed.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2018, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
You are correct, Smitty, and I misspoke.  WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--which led to my argument that they shouldn't be ranked in the top 16 teams, with a decade long history of showing that they are not there.

Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 22, 2018, 01:43:54 PM
Plus PC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 22, 2018, 03:20:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2018, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
You are correct, Smitty, and I misspoke.  WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--which led to my argument that they shouldn't be ranked in the top 16 teams, with a decade long history of showing that they are not there.

Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.

Whitman kind of helped make that argument even more plausible last year - though, I've agreed with that thinking for a long time.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 22, 2018, 04:17:59 PM
Not a basketball guy (obviously) but the amount of pressure Whitman applies from tip to buzzer is impressive.  I know that's not a new observation but seeing it first hand was fun to watch. You get that skill and effort in front of a home crowd and that must be a buzzsaw.

Love what Shannon is doing with the Linfield program. Not on the Whit/Whit level but he has the 'Cats trending upward. 


Quote from: (509)Rat on January 20, 2018, 11:15:39 PM
Whitworth and Whitman win again tonight. Linfield not ready for the big show but should be able to hang on to a tournament spot through the back half of the conference schedule. Lewis and Clark is the best team that has zero shot at the conference tourney, I think they’ll be the one to ruin it for one of the teams sitting 3-5 (Pacific/UPS/Linfield).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2018, 11:55:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2018, 10:35:52 AM
Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.

I think we've actually had this debate before PC, but we've done a 180 ;).  I do agree its tough to make it from the West, but I also think that WW should have made the Elite 8 at least once in 10 years if they were truly a top  5 team.  After 10 years of getting knocked out early, its not an upset anymore.  And 1st round tourney game has typically been a gimme from the SCIAC (not a gimme anymore).

Whitworth is now #4 in the country.  Is there anybody willing to raise their hand and say they voted WW as #4? When they lose in the first or 2nd round again this year do we still call it an upset?

There is an undeniable home court advantage for the host team, but I also think it's used too much as an excuse.  Remember that scene in Hoosiers where they measure the rims...and they're still 10 feet.  I think home court advantage is less than 5%-10% factor. 

I found Whitman's #1 ranking last year hard to justify.  I'm with McHugh, that after last year's performance and YTD, Im okay with it now.  But there are teams out there (that i know nothing about) like Wittenburg, Wash U, Williams, Augustana, Middlebury, who play much tougher schedules.  If WMN/WW swithced conferences with those guys, what would it look like? 





Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 23, 2018, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2018, 11:55:55 PM
Whitworth is now #4 in the country.  Is there anybody willing to raise their hand and say they voted WW as #4? When they lose in the first or 2nd round again this year do we still call it an upset?

There is an undeniable home court advantage for the host team, but I also think it's used too much as an excuse.  Remember that scene in Hoosiers where they measure the rims...and they're still 10 feet.  I think home court advantage is less than 5%-10% factor. 

I found Whitman's #1 ranking last year hard to justify.  I'm with McHugh, that after last year's performance and YTD, Im okay with it now.  But there are teams out there (that i know nothing about) like Wittenburg, Wash U, Williams, Augustana, Middlebury, who play much tougher schedules.  If WMN/WW swithced conferences with those guys, what would it look like? 

FYI - you know where I am voting Whitworth if you have been reading my blog (this week's to come out shortly). I'm not convinced Whitworth is that good.

However, to defend the voters a little bit ... who really is #4? Heck, I'm even debating if Whitman is #1. No team is head and shoulders better than any one else this season and when everyone keeps losing, voters tend to ride those who keep winning. I don't always love it, I've been guilty of the same in years past, but I understand it.

As for switching conferences... some would argue Williams and Middlebury have not scheduled all that difficultly. Whitman's schedule is pretty good this year; Whitworth's isn't that bad (starting to improve, actually). But switching conferences doesn't necessarily change the scheduling conversation because the out of conference schedule is so important and the what-if of how a team would fare is tough to gauge.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2018, 04:43:33 PM

Whitman would sweep the NESCAC this year.  The WIAC and CCIW would, obviously, be much tougher.  Whitworth is a conundrum - I've got them #16 right now.  They have real talent and experience - that counts for a lot.  Not sure they have the size to compete week in and week out in a power conference.

Losing in the second round is nothing to sneeze at when you're always playing Whitman.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 24, 2018, 03:02:56 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 22, 2018, 11:55:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2018, 10:35:52 AM
Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.

I think we've actually had this debate before PC, but we've done a 180 ;).  I do agree its tough to make it from the West, but I also think that WW should have made the Elite 8 at least once in 10 years if they were truly a top  5 team.    [/i][/b]

It's been 7 years, but they made the Elite 8 in 2011.  It has just been the last 4 years where they did not get to the Sweet 16 for 5 out of 6 years (lost to a VERY GOOD UPS team in the second round in 2009). A couple of those Sweet 16 teams and the Elite 8 team underachieved in my opinion.  What is the cause of the underachieving? Some of it was playing tight.  Some of it was due to bad matchups. We seem to put the blame on travel a lot.  That does play a huge role.  Here is a great article on travel and the Big Sky Conference (http://www.oregonlive.com/collegebasketball/index.ssf/2018/01/big_sky_or_big_bus_conference.html). Some of Whitworth travels to away tournament games were similar to a Big Sky Road Trip. Clearly travel matters. I believe Whitworth deserved the rankings they had when they were going deep in the tournament.  Given their performance the the last few years, their reputation probably gets them a little higher than they should be. However, they earned their reputation.  As for Whitman, they clearly deserve their #1 ranking.  Final Four last year. Undefeated. Scheduled tough games this year.  As for Whitworth. They have been an NCAA tournament team for over a decade. They scheduled traditionally tough teams, only two losses against a great team and a very good team, and they lead Whitman for over half the game.  #4 is a bit too high in my opinion, but they probably deserve it as much as most of the teams ranked 5 to 20.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 24, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
How is A Buc only the second person to correct blackhawks re: his "no elite 8" narrative?

I would agree pretty much completely with A Buc. Whitworth has underachieved slightly, but I'm not sure losing in an elite game against Wooster on their home court was some choke job like blackhawks (who still doesn't know Whitworth has made the elite 8) would like people to believe. Whitworth dropped a winnable game the next year against Va Wes @UWW (I was at that game), but I don't think they were going to knock off the eventual national champion Warhawks on their home court the following day. I'm also not going to say Whitman was somehow not deserving of a top 4 ranking if they end up losing to an Augustana or St John's or Wash U or Wittenberg on their home court in the second weekend of the tourney. Whitman is lucky that they have their best team in a year where there those traditional Goliaths don't seem to be there...but it's very tough coming out of the west and I'm probably never gonna knock a team from the PNW that comes up short.   
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 27, 2018, 11:24:20 AM
Austin Butler - 24min   6-6FG, 5-10 FT, 11reb, 8ast, 9steals, 3 blocks, 0 TO, 17 points


This is one of the greatest stat lines of the season, especially when you add in the fact that he led his team to a 30 point win over a solid UPS squad and their team totaled 136 points. I absolutely love watching him play and think he is deserving of a lot of postseason awards, even though he isn't a natural scorer like most players who receive post-season awards are. He makes this team, the best in the country, click and he does it in so many different facets. Just think he deserved some talk on the boards.

The one hold back is his terrible FT shooting, hard not to think that might be an achilles heel later in the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2018, 03:35:05 PM
17 Points, 11 Rebounds, 9 steals,  8 assists, 3 blocks.

Can anybody recall a stat line that compares to Austin Butlers Friday night... Ever at this level?

Thank you Smitty, I've been over here talking about this kid this for three years.   He is the best defensive player in the country, he should be an all American, and he should be the MVP of the conference.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 27, 2018, 03:55:44 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2018, 03:35:05 PM
17 Points, 11 Rebounds, 9 steals,  8 assists, 3 blocks.

Can anybody recall a stat line that compares to Austin Butlers Friday night... Ever at this level?

Thank you Smitty, I've been over here talking about this kid this for three years.   He is the best defensive player in the country, he should be an all American, and he should be the MVP of the conference.

I totally agree. MVP and 1st team all region should be pretty close to locks for Butler. All-American will be a toss up probably, depends on what voters really value, but I agree I would like to see him recognized. Such a joy to watch, a guard who grinds it out on defense, great passer... tough to come by these days with everyone wanting to huck 3s.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 24, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
How is A Buc only the second person to correct blackhawks re: his "no elite 8" narrative?

My credibility is shot.  Perhaps I should dig up the posts from the past 10 years of me warning everyone that Bridgeland was taking over the league and Whitworth was going downhill.  Perhaps that would restore it?

I was just thinking, in 2007-08, Bridgeland took over a 1-15 NWC team that won 5 games.  That same year, Whitworth won 20 games and went 12-4 in NWC.  How did Whitman ever catch WW, when Whitworth had THAT big of a head start??  That's kind of sad, don't you think? 

It's nice that Whitworth still finishes 2nd.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 24, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
Whitman is lucky that they have their best team in a year where there those traditional Goliaths don't seem to be there...

Rat, it's right in front of your face and you still don't get it.  This Whitman team is better than last year's Final 4 team, and this Whitman team is the WORST Whitman team that you are going to see again.  This year they lose Tim Howell (take nothing away from Howell--fantastic player and an All-American).  But Darne Duckett is waiting in the wings to take over.  Without the Tim Howell's, the Darne Duckett's don't come to Whitman.  You see they get better with each class.  And Jase Harrison comes back next year.  And Whitman will add a better recruiting class than they've ever had because of 2 undefeated seasons.  It's not stopping and its not slowing down.








Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 27, 2018, 11:15:07 PM
Linfield rolled Fox by 35 in Newberg. The Bruins don't play much defense and can't rebound the ball very well.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 28, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
Blackhawk,
Bridgeland didn't pull this off until Hayford left.  Just saying.


;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 02, 2018, 12:35:28 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 28, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
Blackhawk,
Bridgeland didn't pull this off until Hayford left.  Just saying.


;D

UHHHHH....

Hayford arrived at Whitworth in 01'. Bridgeland arrived a year later, at UPS in '02. Bridgeland took over a 7-9 team, and then proceeded to go 15-1 in '04, 15-1 in '05, and 14-2 in '06—winning NWC titles 3 in a row! Then he left. Then Hayford won...after Bridgeland left. LOL

"Just saying."

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 02, 2018, 12:38:42 AM
Oopsie. It was

Just saying.


;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 02, 2018, 02:09:25 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
And Whitman will add a better recruiting class than they've ever had because of 2 undefeated seasons.

Whitman has landed their first recruit of the year: http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2018/1/30/kath-to-join-mens-basketball.aspx (http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2018/1/30/kath-to-join-mens-basketball.aspx). Looks like a good shooter.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 06, 2018, 11:14:38 PM
https://portal.stretchinternet.com/whitworth/portal.htm?eventId=385188&streamType=video

This game has been as fun as advertised so far. If anyone is still up, I advise tuning in.

BONUS: Download the NWC app on your Roku/Apple TV to watch on the big TV while your comfortably on your couch or laying down in bed!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2018, 12:01:36 AM
Both teams shooting real well. I doubt I'll stay awake for the entire second half, Whitworth needs to avoid the dumb mistakes when the inevitable fatigue sets in. They aren't gonna shoot 50+% from 3 in the second half, they'll need some stops or Whitman is gonna pull away and win by 15+ again.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 12:05:17 AM
Still at the half. WHAT A GAME.  Howell and Roach are both amazing.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 01:14:43 AM
Much like the villains in WWF, there is much to hate about Whitman Basketball when they beat you.

They are good, even if obnoxious.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 07, 2018, 01:21:17 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 01:14:43 AM
Much like the villains in WWF, there is much to hate about Whitman Basketball when they beat you.

They are good, even if obnoxious.

I thought Whitworth were the villains, no?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 07, 2018, 01:24:40 AM
Tonight's game cemented for me that Butler is the most indispensable guy on the Blues. Nobody else can do what he does.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 07, 2018, 01:28:04 AM
That was an unbelievable game.  One of the best NWC games I've seen in a long time.   Whitworth is better than i gave them credit for.  They are a top 15 team. 

I think in an earlier post I gave Whitworth a 20% chance to win...and the way you do it is with 45 out of Kyle Roach.  He put on one of the best individual performances in recent memory.  Ben College can play too, and so can Hull.

MVP-like performance out of Tim Howell.  Same from Austin Butler.  Big game out of Jack Stewart. 



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 01:39:11 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 07, 2018, 01:21:17 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 01:14:43 AM
Much like the villains in WWF, there is much to hate about Whitman Basketball when they beat you.

They are good, even if obnoxious.

I thought Whitworth were the villains, no?

Whitworth has had some guys that people loved to hate (one poster on this board absolutely hated my son).  Howell bowing in front of the Whitworth crowd takes the cake though. If he played for my team, I'd cringe, but probably enjoy it.  Definitely a guy you love to hate when he's on the other team. The way he handled those last 10 seconds was impressive.  I was surprised WW let him touch the ball.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on February 07, 2018, 02:08:19 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 01:39:11 AM


Whitworth has had some guys that people loved to hate (one poster on this board absolutely hated my son).  Howell bowing in front of the Whitworth crowd takes the cake though. If he played for my team, I'd cringe, but probably enjoy it.  Definitely a guy you love to hate when he's on the other team. The way he handled those last 10 seconds was impressive.  I was surprised WW let him touch the ball.

If he played for me I'd bench his behind for his behavior.  Coaches should be as interested in teaching character as much as they are interested in getting W's. But that's just me.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 07, 2018, 03:06:22 AM
Quote from: PirateDaddy on February 07, 2018, 02:08:19 AM
If he played for me I'd bench his behind for his behavior.  Coaches should be as interested in teaching character as much as they are interested in getting W's. But that's just me.

Get a clue. You don't know a thing about Tim and I'd say your character shows real clear when you take cheap shots at players on an internet message board. Ask around Walla Walla and you'll find that Tim Howell is an even better person than he is a competitor.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 11:37:13 AM
FYI - I have seen Whitworth players act just as cocky as Whitman players currently. It is a big game and usually I give a bit of a leash.

That said, feel free to watch the video back shortly after the buzzer and a Whitman player chasing after an official and yelling at him before another teammate pulls him away from the official. Let's not cast stones, okay?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on February 07, 2018, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 07, 2018, 03:06:22 AM
Quote from: PirateDaddy on February 07, 2018, 02:08:19 AM
If he played for me I'd bench his behind for his behavior.  Coaches should be as interested in teaching character as much as they are interested in getting W's. But that's just me.

Get a clue. You don't know a thing about Tim and I'd say your character shows real clear when you take cheap shots at players on an internet message board. Ask around Walla Walla and you'll find that Tim Howell is an even better person than he is a competitor.
It's not a cheap shot but rather a fair critique of a player's behavior as witnessed with my own eyes.

Those who were watching the game on line would have missed the scuffle in the handshake line which was precipitated by the same player talking smack to the opposing coaching staff.  Actions speak louder than words.  If taunting opposing fans and talking smack to opposing coaches is what you call teaching good character then we'll just have to disagree.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2018, 12:30:22 PM
What a bummer to wake up to. Though I think a 1 point loss on last second free throws is what I would have considered absolute best case scenario. I still think Lester is/was the best player on this team and even if you want to argue that its Roach, not having College touch the ball on his own side of the court would have made all the difference last night. He had the most egregious turnovers of the night, most of which led directly to Whitman points. Not sure that the big 3 at the end makes up for the rest of it.

Whitman is and always has been the better team this season but barring a total collapse Whitworth is making the playoffs...where it would be nice if they could make it out of the first round this year and play Whitman in the only game that will really matter between these two.

The character arguments are dumb. College students are yelling at other college students who then make gestures back to said college students for 40 minutes...the old folks that get upset need to just bottle up those feelings and keep em to themselves.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 12:42:50 PM
Quote from: PirateDaddy on February 07, 2018, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 07, 2018, 03:06:22 AM
Quote from: PirateDaddy on February 07, 2018, 02:08:19 AM
If he played for me I'd bench his behind for his behavior.  Coaches should be as interested in teaching character as much as they are interested in getting W's. But that's just me.

Get a clue. You don't know a thing about Tim and I'd say your character shows real clear when you take cheap shots at players on an internet message board. Ask around Walla Walla and you'll find that Tim Howell is an even better person than he is a competitor.
It's not a cheap shot but rather a fair critique of a player's behavior as witnessed with my own eyes.

Those who were watching the game on line would have missed the scuffle in the handshake line which was precipitated by the same player talking smack to the opposing coaching staff.  Actions speak louder than words.  If taunting opposing fans and talking smack to opposing coaches is what you call teaching good character then we'll just have to disagree.

Glass house, sir. I've seen it on both sides in my years covering this sport and these two teams. It happens in big games. It was well played, let's not get caught up in details that happen in a lot of basketball games around the country.

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 07, 2018, 12:30:22 PM
The character arguments are dumb. College students are yelling at other college students who then make gestures back to said college students for 40 minutes...the old folks that get upset need to just bottle up those feelings and keep em to themselves.

Bingo. Both sides played a role and it didn't get out of control. Sometimes it goes over the top... I don't think it got there here. Just emotional game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 11:37:13 AM
FYI - I have seen Whitworth players act just as cocky as Whitman players currently. It is a big game and usually I give a bit of a leash.

That said, feel free to watch the video back shortly after the buzzer and a Whitman player chasing after an official and yelling at him before another teammate pulls him away from the official. Let's not cast stones, okay?

1.  WW players act as cocky as Howell?  Not our upstanding Pirates.
2.  I Assume you meant a Whitworth player was yelling at a ref.  If it was Roach, I can understand his frustration. Did you see the missed call on his dunk and the foul they called on him on Howell's Drive? No game is perfectly reffed but Roach really did get the short end all night long.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopfan555 on February 07, 2018, 02:03:59 PM
In the interest of full disclosure, I am Kyle's father.  I was at the game last night, it was a tremendous atmosphere and an amazing game.  Two teams who left it all on the Court.  It was extremely intense throughout.  Yes there were a few actions at the end by young men on both sides that might have been handled better, but don't judge these kids by that.  Both sides should be proud of their effort.  I don't think the book is closed quite yet on this rivalry this year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 07, 2018, 02:36:15 PM
Question, did Kyle require rehydration via IV after the game?

Back to serious posts and not butt hurt old people, is the NWC tournament going to have the current 1-4 in it? Does Linfield drop their last 4 in a row and end up going to Walla Walla instead of Spokane? Can Pacific squeak past UPS? Do any of them have a shot at beating Whitworth and Whitman in the tournament in order to get the automatic bid?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopfan555 on February 07, 2018, 02:58:04 PM
Like most 20 year olds that can eat whatever they want he scarfed down a burger, fries, and milkshake with some water.  Hopefully Whitworth closes out regular season and finishes 2 seed.  Linfield and Puget Sound are both good this year and capable of an upset if they get the 3 and 4 seeds. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 11:37:13 AM
FYI - I have seen Whitworth players act just as cocky as Whitman players currently. It is a big game and usually I give a bit of a leash.

That said, feel free to watch the video back shortly after the buzzer and a Whitman player chasing after an official and yelling at him before another teammate pulls him away from the official. Let's not cast stones, okay?

1.  WW players act as cocky as Howell?  Not our upstanding Pirates.
2.  I Assume you meant a Whitworth player was yelling at a ref.  If it was Roach, I can understand his frustration. Did you see the missed call on his dunk and the foul they called on him on Howell's Drive? No game is perfectly reffed but Roach really did get the short end all night long.

Oops... I did mean a Whitworth player chased down an official.

I do not believe it was Roach. It wasn't his number. I remember looking and noting it wasn't Roach. I don't want to guess otherwise until after the fact.

And I disagree completely with your thought on the dunk and the final play. I watched all of it:
- The dunk was a clean block. Watch the video (and I did multiple times) and you will see the hand get all ball to start (maybe got the wrist, but well after the fact) and there was no body contact). It was a great no-call... despite the fact the broadcasters couldn't admit it because they were stuck in a rut of questioning everything about the officiating (I don't disagree the officials weren't great, but they weren't as bad as they made them out to be).
- The final play was absolutely a foul. Roach was moving laterally and pushing off with an arm bar, but I thought the foul that was most aggregise was the help defender who slide right into Howell and hip-checked him. The camera angle from midcourt, low, showed that very well. Same angle the official who called the foul had. They called it on Roach, so be it... but it was a pick 'em as to who caused the foul.

Roach didn't get the short end of anything. They called a foul on Hewitt closely guarding Roach when Roach was just as aggressive and pushing as much. It would have been a smart double-foul if the official thought of it well.

Back to the last play, Whitworth needed to ease up there a bit. Roach had gotten Howell to go towards the corner and no angle at the basket. Howell was about to cost Whitman the game. However, Roach and the help defense got too aggressive. No matter the situation there, it is a two-shot foul. Let Howell either bury Whitman or hit a ridiculous prayer of a shot and nod your head. They didn't need to be that aggressive in that situation. Howell was putting himself in a bad spot and Roach and the help defender sadly bailed him out.

That is not a knock on Roach. He played a darn good game. I would have liked to see him get his teammates involved a little more and not take 28-foot shots with a man in his face, but you can't knock 45 points too much. Whitworth just can't rely on him to do that in all their big games.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 07, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Roach was 18/29.  I would not say he took too many bad shots and those long threes only looked bad because they were deep. They all looked good. Good shooters are extending the range of the game.  Whitman hit some threes that were that deep or deeper.  The game is changing.  Good three point shooters aren't just toeing the line anymore. Coaches are using the 3 point shot as their primary weapon more and more.  Last night both teams shot a lot of transition threes.  I like it. Teams have to extend the defense and it opens up the game underneath.

As for the Roach's dunk--The defender got ball at first and when his hand came down he clearly hit Roach's wrist. Still a foul.  I did not see a replay of the last play, maybe it was worse than what you could see live. I'll defer to your view of the replay.  I would not say they bailed Howell out--did you see some of the shots that kid made earlier in the game?  They should have done more to keep the ball out of his hands.

Turnovers were the difference. Some of Whitworth's turnovers were unforced. I think they got flustered and did not handle the pressure well. I like the uptempo game Whitman is playing.   I wonder if more teams will adopt it.

Saw the replay of Howell's bowing.  Ok--the kid is a total ham, but it was pretty funny.  I just hope he doesn't tick off Roach enough that they get in a fight. This isn't like Brian Williams vs Chase Curtis.  The younger kids look like they actually go in the weight room and might actually hurt each other if they got in a fight.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 05:39:17 PM
I am fully aware that threes are taken from a further distance... I've been around this game plenty to know that. My point wasn't that. My point was he took some shots at times that were not wise and they didn't help the team. One was from 28 feet with a guy in his face early in the shot clock as his teammate were running a play... which also put no one in rebounding position. He felt he was on last night and sometimes just chucked up shots. Yes, he made some. Good. Just thought, if Whitworth wants to get past Whitman, he needs to think a little more about those choices.

As for the foul at the end, they did bail him out. I am fully aware of what Howell can do, but he hasn't been as successful this season and the play was playing out not in Howell's favor. The shot he ended up taking never came close. He was running basically away from the rim when the foul took place. In that particular situation, let him hit the circus shot instead of putting him on the line.

The dunk, we can agree to disagree, but I barely saw wrist... I saw all ball.

By the way, Butler's steal late was one of the most spectacular steals I've ever seen. Ripped it out of the guy's hands, cleanly, in a manner I've never seen before.. Quite impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 05:46:53 PM
Men's first regional rankings this season: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 08, 2018, 04:27:17 AM
I'm ancient so I find it amusing a Whitman Missionary would do anything unseeming.
I'm glad we have two NWC teams with national stature.

'CATS are coming.
Like it used to be.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 08, 2018, 04:27:17 AM
I'm ancient so I find it amusing a Whitman Missionary would do anything unseeming.
I'm glad we have two NWC teams with national stature.

'CATS are coming.
Like it used to be.

They changed to the Whitman Blues two years ago. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 08, 2018, 02:02:32 PM
Mr. McHugh... I know.
I wallow in sarcasm. Playing Missionaries in any sport (especially basketball) in my day was a lark.
They did ruin our football playoff chances one year though.
Whitworth? Considered a big school in the 60s and we rarely played them.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
:) was on purpose...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 08, 2018, 10:12:31 PM
Job postings popped up for Pacific's men AND women's head coaching jobs just a few hours ago on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/CoachBook_Jobs/status/961784491655286785 (https://twitter.com/CoachBook_Jobs/status/961784491655286785)

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 10:56:56 PM
That's a must since both current coaches have interim tags.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 08, 2018, 11:56:26 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 10:56:56 PM
That's a must since both current coaches have interim tags.

Shows you how much I've been paying attention!!   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 10, 2018, 12:29:27 AM
So now that LINFIELD is not beating itself regularly attention turns to how much more can they improve...

News-Register by Rusty Rae

QuoteIt's time for the NWC to live up to its standard of equitable play!

"The heart of competition" sports column by Rusty Rae, Sport Editor, McMinnville N-R/News-Register Feb 8 (online) and Feb. 9 (in print), 2018

The Linfield men's basketball team has it going on.

Too bad the Northwest Conference schedule wizards haven't progressed as far.

Playing on the road is a part of athletics, no matter the sport.
But the schedule the 'Cats endured this year borders on abusive, perhaps affecting their chances for second place in the conference and a home playoff contest.

After a Tuesday game with Willamette, Linfield traveled to Tacoma to play Pacific Lutheran last Saturday. Easy enough.

This weekend, however, the 'Cats make the same trip to Tacoma for a Friday night game against talented University of Puget Sound. The 'Cats then must jump on the bus for the return trip, getting into their own beds well after 1 a.m. Saturday, they play their last home game of the season against Lewis & Clark. Keep in mind, the Pioneers' Friday contest is a home game against PLU.

Earlier in the season, Linfield lost another Saturday game to Pacific on the Boxers' home court. Linfield played a scrappy George Fox outfit Friday at the House of Hustle. Who did Pacific play the same night? Nowheresville State College. That's right, the Boxers didn't play Friday night.

Head coach Shanan Rosenberg credited the Boxers for their play rather than using it as an excuse. But the difference between the first game and the second is exponential: Linfield shellacked Pacific a month later at Ted Wilson Gymnasium, 83-48. That's a 50-point difference.

Make up your own mind whether the schedule impacted the outcome.

It's not just Linfield forced to accept this nonsensical scheduling. Every Oregon team in the NWC receives this treatment, while the Washington-based teams get back-to-back games during their forays into the Beaver State.

Rosenberg, while not happy with the unbalanced schedule, acts the stoic noting, "We dance to the music the conference plays."

NWC Commissioner Kimberly Wenger, asked to comment on the schedule, did not return our call.

Linfield athletic director Garry Killgore said it's his understanding the schedule was developed by some faceless company in the Midwest. Obviously a pragmatic solution to scheduling, but produced by an agency without a clue about the geography of the NWC.

Notes Killgore, with a touch of sarcasm, "The schedule favors some schools in the conference – but certainly not us."

A third-grade class drawing ping-pong balls out of a fishbowl could have done a better job in developing the schedule. What is more disappointing is the Washington schools have been less than forthcoming in lobbying for a change. Apparently the two Whits don't give a whit about fair play.

"Moving forward, I hope the NWC will take a closer look at the scheduling formula with an idea of true equality," Killgore said.

There is also something to be said for not playing back-to-back games. The NBA seldom schedules in this way; you will rarely see the Beavers or the Ducks play consecutive league contests. It may be expedient, but it's not a healthy way to treat student athletes.

Additionally, playing on a Friday night does not give coaches the opportunity to travel to high school games for recruiting purposes.

Even more disappointing is the lack of integrity this level of pragmatic paper-pushing displays in NWC leadership.

I have always considered the NWC a leader within the NCAA DIII; however, with NWC management, college presidents, and athletic directors apparently more interested in "that's the way it is" rather than fixing a glaring problem of equality, the conference has taken a step backward.

The mission statement of the NWC states: ... exists to promote, organize, and supervise intercollegiate athletics competition among member institutions in a way that encourages competition to be equitable, fair, amicable, enjoyable, and educational (emphasis added).
It's time for the NWC to exemplify their standard.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 10, 2018, 01:11:09 AM
UPS Jimmy Woher made a quick juke on his defender and hit a huge 3 in overtime.
Jerimiah Hobbs lucked one in.
Loggers never trailed again.
UPS does not let that home court advantage slip away.
76-71
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 10, 2018, 02:38:17 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 10, 2018, 12:29:27 AM
So now that LINFIELD is not beating itself regularly attention turns to how much more can they improve...

News-Register by Rusty Rae

QuoteIt's time for the NWC to live up to its standard of equitable play!

"The heart of competition" sports column by Rusty Rae, Sport Editor, McMinnville N-R/News-Register Feb 8 (online) and Feb. 9 (in print), 2018

.......

The mission statement of the NWC states: ... exists to promote, organize, and supervise intercollegiate athletics competition among member institutions in a way that encourages competition to be equitable, fair, amicable, enjoyable, and educational (emphasis added).
It's time for the NWC to exemplify their standard.

Shortened the quote, but there is really nothing the conference can do about the scheduling short of adding another team so that everyone plays back to back games on Friday and Saturday every week and no Tuesday night games. It is DIII basketball.  As a tuition payer of a kid at Lewis and Clark--if he played basketball I would not want him playing Thursday/Saturday like DI schools do. I would want him in class Thursday. Missing Friday classes is enough.  Also, at small, academically oriented schools you might not get a lot of kids out to the games on Thursday night. It would not make sense for the Whits to have different travel partners.  Yes, it is a brutal road trip.  Facing the #1 and #4 teams in the nation on back to back nights is a bit overwhelming. It won't be like this forever.  Times will change. The Tacoma trip used to be a bear.     You could make the games Friday night/Sunday afternoon, but then you would miss out on Saturday night games.  The other issue is being smarter about your travel.  Why is Linfield driving back and forth to McMinnville on the Tacoma weekend?  It can't be much more expensive to stay in a hotel rather than bus back and forth like that.

OMG--Whitworth must have had a let down!!!  Hopefully they get it together for next weekend and the playoffs.

My bet is UPS for third place.  Linfield likely to lose 2 of their last 3 and UPS could win all three. 

Does UPS press all game or just run up-tempo offense?  Kind of interesting that 2 of the 4 top teams play so fast (WM and UPS) and Whitworth isn't exactly methodical.  The hyper up-tempo style doesn't seem to have hit the DI ranks yet.  It will be interesting to see where the game goes in the next few years. I like Whitman's pressing defense.  I prefer WW's approach on offense.  WM gets a little more chaotic than I like.  That was a great game on Tuesday.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 10, 2018, 11:09:18 AM
Rusty comes off as a whiny b****

The real story re: Linfield and equality (or lack there of) would dive into the inequality between programs in  their own athletic dept

Of course it's much easier to deflect outward than shine the light inward

Is anyone from the spokesman taking notes? I feel a hot take coming on..."Mean NWC forces Whitworth Football to travel over 5 hours for every away contest...while those Oregon jerk offs get to drive 45 min down the road"
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 10, 2018, 12:41:04 PM
A B F... your response of adding a team is like this LINFIELD fan who cites the old PAC 10 model...

QuoteThe ideal answer would be adding a 10th non-football NWC team in the Portland area, creating a conference of 5 sets of travel partners. Each weekend one set of partners travels to another, and one plays home-and-home against its own partner. It could be the scheduling model for a number of sports such as volleyball, men's and women's soccer, etc. Concordia would have been a possibility until it decided to go NCAA II; maybe Warner Pacific or a similar school could be a good fit for the NWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 10, 2018, 05:30:33 PM
The other issue is being smarter about your travel.  Why is Linfield driving back and forth to McMinnville on the Tacoma weekend?  It can't be much more expensive to stay in a hotel rather than bus back and forth like that.

Which would be great, and I believe Linfield would likely do that, but this is the third straight season there is no such thing for Linfield as "the Tacoma weekend." For the third straight year, Linfield's trips to Tacoma have been scheduled on different weekends so there's no chance for a two-day, up-and-back trip to play PLU and UPS. That said, a quick sampling of this year's NWC schedule shows similar home-and-away weekends split between Tacoma and the Willamette Valley for every school located west of the Cascades, and no easy way to completely and equitably avoid that comes to mind.

Unless, of course, Concordia, Warner Pacific or Corban joins the party.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 10, 2018, 08:34:41 PM
Linfield can play UPS Friday night, stay at a Tacoma hotel. Sleep in Saturday and take a bus down to Portland to play Lewis and Clark Saturday night. The difference between that and playing UPS and PLU in the same weekend is about 2 extra hours on a bus Saturday.

The whole argument/complaint made by is pretty nonsensical
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2018, 10:03:06 PM
I've got some catching up to do!  Reflections on the WMN-WW game. 

First off, completely agree with McHugh

That Whitman-Whitworth games was emotional!  We are all guilty of saying things that we didn't mean.  I am no exception.  After the game, emotion got the better of me, and I went so far as to call Whitworth a top 15 team in the country.  For that, I am sorry.  They are not.  They are a top 25 team, but they have major deficiencies.  Talent just isn't there. Kyle Roach is good--but Butler, Hewitt and Howell, and Jack Stewart are just as good.  A WMN player would never score 45--just because there are too many options.  College is good, but Trevor Osborne is better.  For every 1 player WW has, WMN has 3.  WW is not as good as Occidental or Claremont.

Should we tackle the character issue?  Agree again with McHugh and Rat here.

There's only one group who calls people "bad winners."  Losers.  Simple solution for the WW folks.  If you don't like it, put a better team on the court.  The you wont have to deal with it.  And nobody has said a thing about Whitworth flexing to the crowd and pointing into the stands after every..single...shot..that..they..made..in..the..entire..Whitman...game. Kinda funny that to Whitworth...this is THE game...but to Whitman, its just a game.

Linfield lost to UPS because they arent good enough.  Lets not blame the travel.  So many excuses from everybody on the board.  "The NWC always has the toughest road, they have to travel unfairly..."

Linfield and UPS can both pull off upsets.  But we're likely looking at WW-WMN in Walla-Walla for the auto bid.  In Walla-Walla I think WMN wins 19 out of 20, so WW has less than 5% chance.



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 11, 2018, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 10, 2018, 08:34:41 PM
Linfield can play UPS Friday night, stay at a Tacoma hotel. Sleep in Saturday and take a bus down to Portland to play Lewis and Clark Saturday night. The difference between that and playing UPS and PLU in the same weekend is about 2 extra hours on a bus Saturday.

The whole argument/complaint made by is pretty nonsensical

I agree.   

'Cats looked great last night vs L&C.

Via twitter: https://twitter.com/_JoeThePro_/status/962547665098612736 (https://twitter.com/_JoeThePro_/status/962547665098612736)

Tonight's win made it the first time under Shanan Rosenberg that Linfield has won 10 conference games, last time was 2009-10 season. The 16 overall wins are the most games won in a season by the program since 2002-03 #RollCats

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 11, 2018, 03:44:43 PM
That Puget Sound game was costly.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 11, 2018, 04:17:45 PM
Well Lewis and Clark isn't gonna ruin anybody's conference tourney hopes like I thought they could. They could knock off UPS and force a tie with Linfield (assuming Linfield goes 0-2 in Eastern WA), but I'm pretty sure UPS would have the tie breaker?

Linfield's only hope is to knock off Whitworth in Spokane. Because the next night they have to play a team that is 3.5 hours away by bus...Linfield does not have the testicular fortitude to play their best basketball after such an arduous trip
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 11, 2018, 06:06:24 PM
Don't count Linfield out of that 3rd spot just yet.  That program is continually getting better.  They have a chance at stealing one this weekend.

And Puget Sound plays PLU (who is awful), but it's still a rivalry game.  PLU will play their best game of the year. 

Puget Sound also plays that high risk/high reward style--which is super interesting.  From the article someone posted on the board earlier this year, Lunt acknowledged Whitman would be impossible to catch unless they did something drastic.  Respect Lunt for making that decision.  This high risk high reward style puts them as a threat to knock off the WMN/WW's on any given night, but in my opinion it can also work against them if things go wrong, and give lessor opponents a chance.

Anybody else paying attention to the SCIAC?  Claremont is back.  They are a TOUGH first round game for one of the Whits.  Beat WW last year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 12, 2018, 06:23:49 PM
Again, concerning the Hoopsville conversation aboout women having priority over men in hosting this year.

If Whitman finishes at 27-0 with three wins over Whitworth, can the committee really send the Blues to Spokane?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2018, 08:40:47 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 12, 2018, 06:23:49 PM
Again, concerning the Hoopsville conversation aboout women having priority over men in hosting this year.

If Whitman finishes at 27-0 with three wins over Whitworth, can the committee really send the Blues to Spokane?

Yes... and would... IF Whitworth is in the tournament as well. So... yeah.

It has happened on the women's side a few times, I believe.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:52:43 PM
Im curious about Amherst, Williams, and Augustana -- how do they stack up to Whitman?  Also, Wittenburg?  Wash U?  Anybody seen these teams play and have an opinion?

Regarding WW hosting the 1st round:

I understand the NCAA saving money by only having to fly two teams, and that its WMN women's turn to host if they outlast Fox.  But 2 follow up questions.

1.  Does the committee look at having WW host as doing a favor to WMN by lessening their travel (assuming WMN stays undefeated #1)?

2.  WW's key wins are North Central Illinois and Wheaton.  Is that really enough to hang your hat on for hosting?  I would think if WMN doesnt host that theres a chance they fly both WMN and WW to a different pod



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:55:08 PM
A sidenote:  I would argue that two teams from same conference having to play each other (such as Whitman vs. Whitworth) is a more difficult draw in the ncaa tourney than playing the rest of the field because the teams are SO familiar with each other.  In those early rounds, i think its easier for WMN/WW to play a team that its never played before 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2018, 11:14:49 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:52:43 PM
Im curious about Amherst, Williams, and Augustana -- how do they stack up to Whitman?  Also, Wittenburg?  Wash U?  Anybody seen these teams play and have an opinion?

Amherst... eh. Nothing to write home about. Nice run at the end here, but they aren't probably getting in the NCAA tournament unless they win the NESCAC AQ.

Williams, pretty good. Remember, final four team last year. They are playing without their best player and have shown signs of struggles. That said, this is about when they really found their legs last season.

Augustana? Streaky this year. Finishing with the easier side of the CCIW schedule will give them confidence and possibly playing at home for the conference tournament. Never count them out. They would have caused a lot of problems for Whitman last year in the championship if the match-up materialized. That said, playing without a key player (Wofford) for much of the season due to injury. I still think they are trying to find a solution there. Last year, they lost the same player for other reasons, but had a guy they could lean on (Johnson). Sadly for them, he graduated.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:52:43 PM
Regarding WW hosting the 1st round:

I understand the NCAA saving money by only having to fly two teams, and that its WMN women's turn to host if they outlast Fox.  But 2 follow up questions.
There is a real chance Whitman women still host even if they lose to GFU again. I need to see this week's rankings to understand that better, but it could happen.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:52:43 PM
1.  Does the committee look at having WW host as doing a favor to WMN by lessening their travel (assuming WMN stays undefeated #1)?

Not a factor. They will look at someone to host that works for the bracket. Nothing else. Whitworth also has to be in the tournament (yes, we can assume they will be; we can also caution they may not be). Who hosts in the stead of a team who can't is based on what works for the bracket and geography more than anything. I am sure the committee would like to make sure their top team (assuming, though I am not sure who they consider their top team, not the D3hoops.com poll's top team which is irrelevant) has treated as such, but sometimes they can only do so much.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:52:43 PM
2.  WW's key wins are North Central Illinois and Wheaton.  Is that really enough to hang your hat on for hosting?  I would think if WMN doesnt host that theres a chance they fly both WMN and WW to a different pod

Doesn't matter in the situation we are talking about here. If the team designated to host can't, what options does the committee have. If they have another place they can bus to without using another flight, the decision is made. The match-ups won't change, Whitman would still get the better first-round match-up, but whether Whitworth is "worthy" to host is not doesn't matter.

This happens all of the time. Teams have had to host across the country for high-"seeded" teams who can't be at home because of the other gender. It has happened at a number of schools this year. Oddly, this is about the only situation we see right now where it might happen.

BTW - back to your money comment... the NCAA (and really, it's DIII) isn't "saving" money. They are simply limited budgetaryily. They aren't allowed to spend too much or on certain things. They aren't "saving" money for something else. Those are two very different things.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:55:08 PM
A sidenote:  I would argue that two teams from same conference having to play each other (such as Whitman vs. Whitworth) is a more difficult draw in the ncaa tourney than playing the rest of the field because the teams are SO familiar with each other.  In those early rounds, i think its easier for WMN/WW to play a team that its never played before 

There is a reason there is a rule to avoid conference match-ups in the first round and even if the second, if possible. Yes, we all agree that playing a conference opponent for a third or fourth time in the opening weekend is very tough. I have seen it from a personal point of view two or three times. It sucks.

That said, there are a lot of early-round games that have a lot of familiarity to them. I think all games are tough at that point... though, conference games suck and we had one on the east coast in the second round last year.

As for it being "easier" to play a team that it has never played before... some coaches might say it is just as difficult. It is a fresh scout and looking at something you haven't seen before. Nothing about that is easy.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2018, 11:56:35 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2018, 10:52:43 PMWW's key wins are North Central Illinois and Wheaton.

Wheaton beat Whitworth, not the other way around. (http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2017-18/boxscores/20171219_6loc.xml?view=boxscore)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CMSfan on February 13, 2018, 01:06:01 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 11, 2018, 06:06:24 PM
Anybody else paying attention to the SCIAC?  Claremont is back.  They are a TOUGH first round game for one of the Whits.  Beat WW last year.

I am! CMS is looking very strong now that they are healthy. This team looks stronger to me than the team that beat WW last year. That team was missing Scott Lynds, their starting PG, but he's back this year and playing really well. With him, Scarlett, and Morris, plus several other solid players, I think they have a chance to make a run in the tournament if they can avoid Whitman.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2018, 12:46:50 AM
McHugh thanks for the feedback.  Maybe its just me but those national powerhouses always seem to be really tough come tourney time.  I'm more concerned about them than the non regulars with better records.

Trying not to be too repetitive here in my questions, but i'd be curious to hear what you speculate the committee's logic would be if Whitman men stay undefeated but cannot host because Whitman women are hosting.  A or B:

A.
1.  Whitman men can't host, so they need to travel.
2.  Whitworth is close, but only has one significant win all year. 
3.  Let's send Whitworth and Whitman travelling--likely to different locations--where a top seeded team hosts and another team can travel by bus.  (I picture Whitworth being a 5-7 seed in the national tourney--especially if drop 3 to whitman)

B

1.  Whitman men can't host, so they need to travel. 
2.  Let's send them to Whitworth because its close.

Of course this also brings Claremont who will have to travel east too.  (They are back!)  Just beat Occi twice.  Dangerous team

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 14, 2018, 01:14:52 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2018, 12:46:50 AM
McHugh thanks for the feedback.  Maybe its just me but those national powerhouses always seem to be really tough come tourney time.  I'm more concerned about them than the non regulars with better records.

Trying not to be too repetitive here in my questions, but i'd be curious to hear what you speculate the committee's logic would be if Whitman men stay undefeated but cannot host because Whitman women are hosting.  A or B:

A.
1.  Whitman men can't host, so they need to travel.
2.  Whitworth is close, but only has one significant win all year. 
3.  Let's send Whitworth and Whitman travelling--likely to different locations--where a top seeded team hosts and another team can travel by bus.  (I picture Whitworth being a 5-7 seed in the national tourney--especially if drop 3 to whitman)

B

1.  Whitman men can't host, so they need to travel. 
2.  Let's send them to Whitworth because its close.

Of course this also brings Claremont who will have to travel east too.  (They are back!)  Just beat Occi twice.  Dangerous team

Don't look now, but St. Olaf and St. John's might both be ahead of Whitworth in this weeks regional ranks. Not saying it will happen, but should Whitman men not be able to host, the Oles might end up with a better resume for hosting than the bucs from Spokane. Also, I don't think that a second West team HAS to host a first weekend pod if it doesn't seem to workout. Although I don't know enough about the puzzle to say where that extra pod would land.

I think I may be able to answer those questions by channeling my inner D-Mac:

The committee will not look at distance whitman needs to travel if they cant host themselves.
Whitworth will only end up hosting should their resume, and their resume alone, be strong enough to merit hosting responsiblity.
Also, they don't seed teams. At least directly. Yes they try to even out the pods, which seeding would do as well, but there is more that comes into play in D3 when compared to the D1 "march madness" with budget and location and distance from other schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2018, 01:33:13 AM
Based on your response Smitty, if Whitman can't host,  I think both teams end up traveling in first round.

There may not be official seedings, but the bracket certainly resembles it...



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 07:03:03 AM

Just for reference, if a team deserving of hosting can't host because of the other gender having priority, they typically try NOT to put the pod at the #2 seed.  However, in the case of the NWC, geography matters.  If they're flying two teams to Washington, Whitworth will host, so they can keep a drive in there.  If, however, there's two driveable Texas teams, they might send both NWC teams there and move the SCIAC elsewhere.  Still a lot of basketball left to be played, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2018, 01:41:49 PM
Agreed -- two teams flying to Washington is seen as the same cost as two teams flying from Washington. And Ryan is right that they try not to put the pod at the No. 2 seed if the No. 1 seed is prohibited from hosting.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2018, 01:57:58 PM
These things are here:
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 03:23:08 PM
As has been explained, but I want to put it in another way...

If the top ranked team cannot host (Whitman), they tend to look at the rest of the pod they had destined for that school and see who else can host that pod without changing anything. Oh look, there is Whitworth. They do NOT default to the next highest ranked team in the region and shuffle EVERYTHING to make it work. That isn't feasible even for the East Coast teams.

Many times a team ranked 5, 6, 7 or the like is hosting the top seed because of these circumstances. Rarely the 3 or 4 ranked suddenly hosts because of it (unless they were in the pod to begin with).

Whitworth will host or both teams are going to catching a flight.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 05:22:15 PM

I think we're talking across definitions, Dave.  I was referring strictly to the pod - four teams 1-4.  Often they try not to move the host to the #2, but rather the 3 or 4, so a team doesn't lose the home court advantage and have it immediately given to their toughest competitor.  I'm not sure how strict that is, though.

I'm also curious if Whitman would rather play at Whitworth and be closer to home or fly somewhere and not play at their rival's place?

Also, if it ends up that there's two teams in Washington, two in Texas, plus the SCIAC, they might actually get to split up the NWC teams and send them different places!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on February 14, 2018, 05:40:07 PM
Thinking out loud to myself, I would like to see how Emory matches up with that Whitman press. 

The NCAA is clearly aware of all those direct flights between Seattle and Atlanta as that has happened twice in recent years.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on February 15, 2018, 01:41:32 PM
Seriously... the News Resister has nothing better to do than to write an entire article whining about travel and how it affects the poor Wildcats!  Do they need some tissues?

It would seem to make absolute sense to have Linfield play UPS/PLU on consecutive nights. Same with the Missionaries and Pirates.  But  with Linfield, Pacific, GFU, Willamette, and L&C all within 60 minutes of each other there is always going to be an odd team out. 

I've been impressed with the progress of the Cats on the court.  They now look the part with D3 caliber players throughout the roster.  They have some guys who I'd love to see play football. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 11:19:46 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 05:22:15 PM

I think we're talking across definitions, Dave.  I was referring strictly to the pod - four teams 1-4.  Often they try not to move the host to the #2, but rather the 3 or 4, so a team doesn't lose the home court advantage and have it immediately given to their toughest competitor.  I'm not sure how strict that is, though.

I'm also curious if Whitman would rather play at Whitworth and be closer to home or fly somewhere and not play at their rival's place?

Also, if it ends up that there's two teams in Washington, two in Texas, plus the SCIAC, they might actually get to split up the NWC teams and send them different places!

I don't believe there is anything thinking to the direct seeding ranking... I believe the decision is based on which places makes the most sense to host (or who ever put in their paperwork) where they can still get the pod there with as few problems as possible. Pretty sure I can go through the brackets in the last few years and find hosts that were the second best team in the group. Williams/Scranton comes to mind recently.

As for the Texas/Washington thought... yep, possible, but I don't think the committee would take the top team in the country and fly them to, say, Sul Ross just because they can. I suspect they would want to at least give the top team their own time zone and the like.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2018, 10:16:07 AM
Leaving Whitworth out of the tourney (I'm sure someone has an idea of how likely that is assuming they win every game until a 3rd loss against Whitman in the conference tourney championship game), seems like it would make things easier for the committee in terms of flights. Finding pods for Whitman and SCIAC champ vs both Whits and SCIAC champ seems like it would be easier regardless of how many or which TX teams make it.

Reading through other threads it sounds like Whitworth getting a pool C makes them an odds on favorite to host the pod though? In order to keep Whitman closer to home? Well, and I'd think it would save a flight in virtually every selection scenario.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 16, 2018, 11:09:13 AM
I'm not sure when was the last time the 'Cats got a win on the Eastern Washington swing but I'm hoping this is the weekend.  Go 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 16, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
So Ryan mentioned on the Pool C board that there was a mixup and men actually have priority to host this year. This means that the Blues will be hosting a pod in Walla Walla, more than likely. That is good news, it would be too bad to ship off the consensus #1 seed (d3hoops top 25 poll) and undefeated team for the first round.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 02:20:19 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 16, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
So Ryan mentioned on the Pool C board that there was a mixup and men actually have priority to host this year. This means that the Blues will be hosting a pod in Walla Walla, more than likely. That is good news, it would be too bad to ship off the consensus #1 seed (d3hoops top 25 poll) and undefeated team for the first round.

They won't be the #1 overall seed, I don't think.  They're already getting the benefit of the doubt for being undefeated, but the SOS number is a little suspect.  By the criteria, I suspect WashU has a better resume.  Not sure that'll matter unless it comes down to second weekend hosting, but let's hope it doesn't come to that either.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 16, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 02:20:19 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 16, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
So Ryan mentioned on the Pool C board that there was a mixup and men actually have priority to host this year. This means that the Blues will be hosting a pod in Walla Walla, more than likely. That is good news, it would be too bad to ship off the consensus #1 seed (d3hoops top 25 poll) and undefeated team for the first round.

They won't be the #1 overall seed, I don't think.  They're already getting the benefit of the doubt for being undefeated, but the SOS number is a little suspect.  By the criteria, I suspect WashU has a better resume.  Not sure that'll matter unless it comes down to second weekend hosting, but let's hope it doesn't come to that either.

Yeah I wasn't sure about Whitman's potential rank in the eyes of the NCAA selection committee, thats why I included the parenthesis, noting #1 on the d3hoops poll.

It is an interesting debate, as WashU definitely does have a rock solid resume with a higher SOS and a lot of results versus regionally ranked opponents (8 off the top of my head, 7-1). But hard to blame Whitman who has went out there and won every game they played, so far at least. Sure you could say schedule better, but that becomes very difficult due to their geography. Like you stated, here is hoping they meet in Salem rather than St. Louis or Walla Walla.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on February 16, 2018, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 16, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
Like you stated, here is hoping they meet in Salem rather than St. Louis or Walla Walla.

My better half is hoping those two teams meet in Walla, Walla, but she is always looking for an excuse to visit the PNW.

After watching the team lose in the first or second round 6 times (5 at home) since the national championship era, I just hope they are playing somewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2018, 09:36:59 AM
Quote from: WUPHF on February 16, 2018, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 16, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
Like you stated, here is hoping they meet in Salem rather than St. Louis or Walla Walla.

My better half is hoping those two teams meet in Walla, Walla, but she is always looking for an excuse to visit the PNW.

After watching the team lose in the first or second round 6 times (5 at home) since the national championship era, I just hope they are playing somewhere.

Walla Walla is a little more NW than PNW, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on February 17, 2018, 09:48:34 AM
+1 For some reason, I thought Walla, Walla was closer to Mount Hood.  Have to pack the snow shoes.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2018, 10:25:56 AM
Yeah eastern Washington is not really what you have in mind. Between the tri cities and Walla Walla though there is apparently some very good wine.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHnELIEqrkYFo8bsB2z8beSPapwnooFBCtOzCYJFxyEZjzTgSz)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2018, 10:27:53 AM
In other news, Linfield basketball still incapable of functioning after spending too much time on a bus.

They will return to eastern WA (Walla Walla most likely) next Thursday for what I imagine will be another uninspired performance, primarily due to unfair travel requirements.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 17, 2018, 10:55:31 AM
Wifey will be disappointed when she finds herself miles from nowhere in Washington.
Some scenic bus rides though.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 17, 2018, 01:18:04 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 17, 2018, 10:55:31 AM
Wifey will be disappointed when she finds herself miles from nowhere in Washington.

There are worse places to visit: http://www.krem.com/travel/walla-walla-makes-list-of-50-best-places-to-travel-in-2018/497352976 (http://www.krem.com/travel/walla-walla-makes-list-of-50-best-places-to-travel-in-2018/497352976)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 17, 2018, 01:55:59 PM
Without a doubt Wash U had a more difficult schedule.  But I find it very hard to believe that Whitman will not be #1 overall--what they did last year parlayed with undefeated this year.  I know it's not based on last year, but it seems like in D3 (more than other levels) we're stuck making assumptions like this because the top teams don't end up playing each other or having mutual opponents. 

Last year Whitman proved their high ranking--remember Whitman went through the Marrietta pod--who hosted  last year because it was a more convenient location.  And Marrietta was a team that Whitman beat head-to-head on a neutral court in Florida in the regular season

Hard for Whitman to schedule better.  There's only so much travel budget.  Went to D3Hoops classic and scheduled the two most reputable national programs that signed up for the tourney (Stevens Point & Ohio Wesleyan). 

Regarding hosting, Whitman's womens team LOST last night (big upset), and lost the conference title.  I would think this means George Fox will host on the womens side, and 1st round games will be in Walla Walla again.  They will be joined by Whitworth and Claremont, and one other again.  Last year the committee flew (what seemed to be #64 seeded) Rhoades College out to play WMN in first round.  Would like to see that again, which would set up a tough game in the 2nd round against Clartemont

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2018, 02:22:28 PM
First round men's games were going to be in Walla Walla even without the WM women losing.  Someone had misread the calendar - MEN have priority this year for first weekend hosting.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 17, 2018, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 17, 2018, 10:27:53 AM
In other news, Linfield basketball still incapable of functioning after spending too much time on a bus.

They will return to eastern WA (Walla Walla most likely) next Thursday for what I imagine will be another uninspired performance, primarily due to unfair travel requirements.

Can we at least have some sympathy for the parents of the Linfield parents that are driving 3 hours from Spokane to Walla Walla today in the snow storm?  Probably going to be snowing when they make the trip next week also. 

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2018, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 17, 2018, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 17, 2018, 10:27:53 AM
In other news, Linfield basketball still incapable of functioning after spending too much time on a bus.

They will return to eastern WA (Walla Walla most likely) next Thursday for what I imagine will be another uninspired performance, primarily due to unfair travel requirements.

Can we at least have some sympathy for the parents of the Linfield parents that are driving 3 hours from Spokane to Walla Walla today in the snow storm?  Probably going to be snowing when they make the trip next week also.

Sure. I wouldn't want to be on 261 or 195 in bad weather. I'd honestly probably take the scenic route and go to the tri cities on 395 and then over to Walla Walla if there's much snow falling. Seems like every year there's at least 1 fatality due to inclement weather on the highways going into Pullman.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on February 17, 2018, 08:01:12 PM
To the point about the No. 1 overall seed, Washington University has a 12-11, 6-17 and 11-12 team factoring in to the next regional rankings. Platteville plays River Falls tonight and whomever in the WIAC tourney. 

I have not looked at the number closely, but it seems as though the Pioneers have a case to make.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2018, 03:05:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2018, 02:22:28 PM
First round men's games were going to be in Walla Walla even without the WM women losing.  Someone had misread the calendar - MEN have priority this year for first weekend hosting.

No... the NCAA removed it from the handbooks which is where I double-check it every year.

Yep - admitted the error on Twitter. Men have priority this year, but only one place is it really going to matter and that is at Whitman best I can tell.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 20, 2018, 06:52:52 AM
With the far east NWC teams in such rarefied air I would not expect a congratulations for LINFIELD making (barely) the NWC tournament. 
I'll do it. Congratulations for shedding those 3-4 win seasons. It'll be fun having other teams look over their shoulders to see your recruiting and hustle.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2018, 10:07:40 PM
Linfield has made huge strides the last couple years.  Congrats on making the playoffs. They may have gotten the 4th spot but they are 4 games ahead of the 5th place team. Their place in the playoffs is solid. The top 4 teams really separated themselves from the rest of the league. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 02:38:36 PM
The NCAA men's basketball regional advisory committees released their third set of rankings, and as expected, the Atlantic Region was among those getting shuffled. (Whitworth can breathe a little easier) Here's the full list: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-third

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D600%2Fmh%3D600%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D4ima3%2Fdinflo07zg1qa2ww.jpg&hash=686d8e036c15a7019bc8f4723e2af35008adc158)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2018, 12:53:49 PM
Congrats to Kyle Roach on being named NWC player of the year. He's the 10th Pirate to win the award since 2003. I've already made the popcorn for anyone that wants to sit and join me in watching the butthurt that's about to flow through blackhawks keyboard. Bridgeland named coach of the year and Roggenbuck of Linfield names freshman of the year.


http://nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/All-NWC-MBSK-2018 (http://nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/All-NWC-MBSK-2018)

First Team
Pos / Name                                                             Class        Hometown / High School
G / Kyle Roach, Whitworth #....................................... Jr          Marinwood, Calif. / Marin Academy
G / Jimmy Wohrer, Puget Sound.................................. Jr          Redwood City, Calif. / Serra
G / Joey Hewitt, Whitman %....................................... Jr          Lafayette, Calif. / Acalanes
G / Tim Howell, Whitman *........................................ Sr         Calabasas, Calif. / Viewpoint School
C / Jordan Clark Linfield............................................. Sr         Antioch, Calif. / De La Salle
F / Nate Olowo, Pacific (Ore.)...................................... Sr         Rancho Cucamonga, Calif. / Alta Loma

Second Team
Pos / Name                                                             Class        Hometown / High School
F / Jordan Jenkins, Willamette...................................... Jr          Placentia, Calif. / Valencia
G / Mason Green-Richards, George Fox.......................... Jr          Eugene, Ore. / South Eugene
G / Austin Butler, Whitman #...................................... Jr          Los Angeles, Calif. / The Buckley School
F / Jared Christy, Whitworth #..................................... Jr          Spokane, Wash. / Ferris
G / Andrew Vickers, Lewis & Clark %........................... So        Vancouver, Wash.  / Columbia River

Honorable Mention
Pos / Name                                                             Class        Hometown / High School
G / Ben College, Whitworth......................................... So        Portland, Ore. / Central Catholic
G / Thomas Rico, George Fox %.................................. Sr         Glendora, Calif. / Glendora
W / Jack Stewart, Whitman.......................................... Jr          Seattle, Wash. / Seattle Prep
G / Easton Driessen, Puget Sound................................. Sr         Brewster, Wash. / Wenatchee Valley
G / Garrett Hull, Whitworth......................................... Jr          Ellensburg, Wash. / Ellensburg
G / Dempsey Roggenbuck, Linfield............................... Fr         Marin County, Calif. / Redwood
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 22, 2018, 03:32:17 PM
I'm disappointed Butler didn't make 1st team. I realize they probably didn't want three Blues on 1st team and it'd be hard not to have Howell or Hewitt there, but he's probably had the best season of the three.

Roach as POY makes sense. He has carried Whitworth all year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 22, 2018, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 22, 2018, 03:32:17 PM
I'm disappointed Butler didn't make 1st team. I realize they probably didn't want three Blues on 1st team and it'd be hard not to have Howell or Hewitt there, but he's probably had the best season of the three.

Roach as POY makes sense. He has carried Whitworth all year.

Agree with you Blues Brother. From a very distant view (granted I have watched some NWC games this year on Apple TV :)), I thought that Butler should be on the first team over Howell.

I like Roach for POY, congrats to him.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 09:34:29 PM
I might take a different approach. I would have had Butler on the first team as well, but I would have put Howell on the second team. I know he is darn good, but I think without the way Hewitt, Butler, and others played, Whitman isn't undefeated right now. I think they are possibly going to be better next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 23, 2018, 12:08:11 AM
Ooo! The Whits let LINFIELD back within 2 at half.
GO ' CATS!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 23, 2018, 12:15:55 AM
All-Star teams favor the offensive stars of each team. You do not always get the best players, the most important players, etc in the right places on the teams.  Also, given the distance between the top four teams and the rest of the league, I have a hard time putting anyone from the bottom part of the league on the first team.  You can say anything you want about who the player of the year is, etc., but Howell drew the foul on Roach and hit the two biggest free throws of the year in the moment that counted...so far.  I'm sure Roach would give up his POY award to give that play a do over.

Linfield looking good, but lots of teams have held their own with Whitman for the first half and gotten blown out. Linfield's depth may keep them in it, but still betting on a blow out.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2018, 12:31:12 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 09:34:29 PM
I might take a different approach. I would have had Butler on the first team as well, but I would have put Howell on the second team. I know he is darn good, but I think without the way Hewitt, Butler, and others played, Whitman isn't undefeated right now. I think they are possibly going to be better next year.

As someone who watches a fair amount of NWC basketball, Howell is more important to their success than Hewitt. I'll give someone Butler.

Anyone who thinks they'll be better without Howell is about to find out just how important he is. He's either a huge p**** or he's done for the year with a knee injury.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2018, 12:36:58 AM
And the answer is yuuuuuuge p****

When you roll around on the ground long enough to get play stopped, lay there for another couple of minutes and then need help to hop off the court and into the locker room...you don't check back in 2 minutes later. I was ok with the taunting of opposing fans or whatever the old guys got upset about but this is where I start losing respect for a player.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 23, 2018, 01:54:59 AM
So... The NWC tourney falls in place as expected.
The #1 team in the country pacing itself?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 23, 2018, 02:08:31 AM
Whitman did not look as sharp as they should.  If Linfield only turns the ball over 25 times tonight instead of 30, that could have gotten scary.

Really impressed by Linfield.  That coach has done an incredible job over there.  I look forward to seeing them next year.  I actually see them as more of a threat to Whitman in the years to come than Whitworth.

NOBODY is saying that Whitman is better without Howell. He is an All-American. Whitman being better next year is a testament TO Tim Howell--that his leadership brought the program to another level.  That he leaves the place better than when he got there. Without the Tim Howell's, there's not the Darne Duckett's and Trevor Osborne's, and whatever monster class they bring in next year.  I know its a foreign concept in stuck-in-the-mud-Spokane.

But why all this talk about next year? 

Drive the vans out to wine country and get smacked around for the 8th consecutive time.

Let's just get this out of the way now please so you dont give me a headache Saturday night: The "refs are completely one sided," "homered," "they missed a key foul on insert Whitman player here and it totally changed the whole game," "Bridgeland whines," "the players are showboats."

Did I miss any?



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 23, 2018, 03:24:24 AM
The blue announcers did say the refs were lacking.
When the 13 point lead opened up in the second half they liked the refs a lot more.
I could have done without the taunting technical foul influencing the moment a tad.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 24, 2018, 08:43:22 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 23, 2018, 12:36:58 AM
And the answer is yuuuuuuge p****


Is that your official medical diagnosis?

Whitman is so damn good and has so many guys that can kill you. Just an impressive program.  Love where Shannon is taking the program and I'm already looking forward to next hoops season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 24, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
Watching another game but every time I check the score the Whits are tied.  Must be a great game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2018, 10:50:51 PM
It is. When you roll around on the court and then require your head coach and a trainer to carry you off, then check in a couple minutes later...that's textbook yuuuuuuuge p****. As someone that actually sees and treats REAL knee injuries (not whatever injury Howell faked), I feel my diagnosis is fairly accurate.

Whits are tied 46-46 at halftime. Unlike blackhawks who has a new opinion of other teams every week based on how they fared against Whitman (see: Occidental), I maintain that Whitworth is not good enough after losing their best player for the season to knock off Whitman in Walla Walla. The Blues will likely pull away at the end of this one, though I don't think it will be another 17 point home win for Whitman. Doesn't really matter though, both will be back here for round 1 of the tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2018, 11:33:38 PM
Whitworth up 76-75 with 7 min left
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2018, 11:56:53 PM
Well I'm glad to be wrong. Whitworth gets the pool A with a last second heave after Howell travels to turn it over with 2 sec left. 91-88 Whitworth.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2018, 11:58:49 PM
That seemed like a long 2 seconds...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2018, 12:01:16 AM
blackhawks will be sure to agree with you and tell us how awful that was...

On the bright side for us Whitworth fans, he'll also make sure to tell everyone that Whitworth is now the best team in the country. Since, judging by his posting history, anyone's results against Whitman is how they should be judged. Ie Occidental is real good (lol), Linfield is gonna beat Whitworth because they played Whitman close in Mcminville (lol), and now we can add that Whitworth is obviously the next best team in the country because they beat Whitman, at Whitman without their best player.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 12:02:39 AM
Oh my god Whitworth's inbounder ran the baseline after Tim Howell's travel call.  It was a travel. Dead ball.  Can't run the baseline.

Heck of a game. There you go WW, no need to sweat out selection Sunday.  See you back in Walla Walla next week
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2018, 12:06:09 AM
I know you don't pay attention to anything outside of whatever Bridgeland is doing...but Whitworth was never going to be sweating it out for a pool C bid, they were a lock regardless of tonight's outcome...

I will say that I'll miss blackhawks when Bridgeland leaves Whitman (it'll happen, probably soon, $ talks). I mean you'd never know he's a UPS alum who doesn't actually care at all about Whitman College...he's nothing more than a guy that followed Bridgeland around both during and after his playing career. Good luck in whatever DI forum you land in tho
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2018, 12:08:20 AM
Ok, a Roach deserves his POY award!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 25, 2018, 12:21:04 AM
HEY! Lookit that. Whitworth plays best in the snow.
Now selection "seeding."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2018, 12:32:52 AM
The Whitman broadcasters were great.  I follow Big Sky Basketball and half of their broadcasters are not nearly as good as Whitworth's or Whitman's.  We really are lucky to have as good a quality broadcasts as we get for these games. Although video quality is not as good as the Big Sky's.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2018, 01:01:20 AM
Yup, they did a good job Thursday for the Linfield game too
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 01:21:14 AM
Inbounder ran baseline. Shocked it was missed. Anybody know where theres a replay of last play?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2018, 01:53:20 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 01:21:14 AM
Inbounder ran baseline. Shocked it was missed. Anybody know where theres a replay of last play?

"Let's just get this out of the way now please so you dont give me a headache Saturday night: The "refs are completely one sided," "homered," "they missed a key foul on insert Whitman player here and it totally changed the whole game," "Bridgeland whines," "the players are showboats."
"
How's the headache?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 02:02:04 AM
Shoot sorry, A Buc—didn't mean to delete a post that you were quoting. Was trying to figure out how to upload pictures to this site (I FINALLY found the final play...on instagram—posted by tyrelpanter) and revise the same post. For some reason, I feel like pictures will go a lot further than "Take my word for it." ;)

Look it's surprising that Whitworth won, but not unthinkable. I think I'm on record for saying they have a 10% chance. 1 out of 8 is 12.5%. That's about right. And when a game comes down to the buzzer, anything can happen, and that 10% chance I quoted is more like a 40%.  Not fair to magnify and scrutinize one play or blame refs. 40 minute game coming down to miliseconds. But when it's a last second shot, we're always going to look at it and wonder if they got it right.

So here it is.

Roach didn't get the shot off. Picture uploaded. Ball was in Roachs hand when backboard is lit up. I didn't even think of this until others commented—looked to me like he got it off. But in D3 we don't go to the monitors—so such is life.

Inbounder did travel as I called out as well. That wouldn't even be reviewable  at a higher level.

AGAIN—game that comes down to buzzer, comes down to who wins it—and Roach won it tonight with huge shot. WMN had chance and didn't.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 25, 2018, 02:38:04 AM
Fun game tonight! Looking forward to round 4 next Saturday (assuming Whitworth can even make it out of the first round; if CMS gets shipped up, I think my money would be on them again.)

Roach's game-winner was an amazing moment. Something he can remember fondly for the rest of his life.

If there is a rematch, I think Whitman wins by double digits.

Rat, you seem like a horrible person.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 25, 2018, 07:13:18 AM
QuoteRat, you seem like a horrible person.

Nope.

We say, "Welcome to the boards." (but do expect to see that applaud/smite meter look something like this by Monday night :
applaud 1 / smite 6 )
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 25, 2018, 10:55:28 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 25, 2018, 02:38:04 AM
Rat, you seem like a horrible person.

Rat is sometimes a pest, but today I believe he's a Roach.

OxyBob
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 11:32:24 AM

In real time, it didn't look like the clock started in time - and even with the extra time, it still didn't look like he got the shot off.  No one really cares, since Whitman is in anyway and the matchups won't change.  I was also surprised how low key the announcers were.  I've never seen a buzzer beater called like that, especially one with so much to question.  I guess that's the laid back style Whitman likes to promote.

It's probably better in the long run not to be undefeated in the post-season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 11:32:24 AM

In real time, it didn't look like the clock started in time - and even with the extra time, it still didn't look like he got the shot off.  No one really cares, since Whitman is in anyway and the matchups won't change.  I was also surprised how low key the announcers were.  I've never seen a buzzer beater called like that, especially one with so much to question.  I guess that's the laid back style Whitman likes to promote.

It's probably better in the long run not to be undefeated in the post-season.

It's available on demand on the Whitman stretch channel.  There's not great resolution, but I'm not exactly sure what the rule is about inbounding there.  The guy didn't move from side to side by much - not sure that's a call anyone will make there.  The clock definitely started late - more than 2.3 seconds went by before he got the shot off.  However, with the clock as it was, he did get the shot off in time - you can go frame by frame and that's pretty clear.

https://portal.stretchinternet.com/whitman/portal.htm?eventId=430738&streamType=video
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 25, 2018, 02:38:04 AM
Rat, you seem like a horrible person.

Says the guy that's judging someone on a message board after being here for a month or two

Are you mad because I talked about Howell faking an injury or about blackhawks fandom?

The win may have been a good thing for the Whitworth players' psyche, but ultimately was meaningless as both teams will be back in Walla Walla next weekend to play more basketball.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2018, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 11:32:24 AM

In real time, it didn't look like the clock started in time - and even with the extra time, it still didn't look like he got the shot off.  No one really cares, since Whitman is in anyway and the matchups won't change.  I was also surprised how low key the announcers were.  I've never seen a buzzer beater called like that, especially one with so much to question.  I guess that's the laid back style Whitman likes to promote.

It's probably better in the long run not to be undefeated in the post-season.

It's available on demand on the Whitman stretch channel.  There's not great resolution, but I'm not exactly sure what the rule is about inbounding there.  The guy didn't move from side to side by much - not sure that's a call anyone will make there.  The clock definitely started late - more than 2.3 seconds went by before he got the shot off.  However, with the clock as it was, he did get the shot off in time - you can go frame by frame and that's pretty clear.

https://portal.stretchinternet.com/whitman/portal.htm?eventId=430738&streamType=video

I can't remember, did the feed pan up to the game clock? The Whitman write up says that there were 2.8 seconds on the clock when Whitworth was to inbound the ball. I don't remember the graphic on the stream showing any tenths of a second after the 2. To be fair the Whitman write up also had a handful of spelling errors as well so...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2018, 04:32:04 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 02:02:04 AM
Shoot sorry, A Buc—didn't mean to delete a post that you were quoting. Was trying to figure out how to upload pictures to this site (I FINALLY found the final play...on instagram—posted by tyrelpanter) and revise the same post. For some reason, I feel like pictures will go a lot further than "Take my word for it." ;)

Look it's surprising that Whitworth won, but not unthinkable. I think I'm on record for saying they have a 10% chance. 1 out of 8 is 12.5%. That's about right. And when a game comes down to the buzzer, anything can happen, and that 10% chance I quoted is more like a 40%.  Not fair to magnify and scrutinize one play or blame refs. 40 minute game coming down to miliseconds. But when it's a last second shot, we're always going to look at it and wonder if they got it right.

So here it is.

Roach didn't get the shot off. Picture uploaded. Ball was in Roachs hand when backboard is lit up. I didn't even think of this until others commented—looked to me like he got it off. But in D3 we don't go to the monitors—so such is life.

Inbounder did travel as I called out as well. That wouldn't even be reviewable  at a higher level.

AGAIN—game that comes down to buzzer, comes down to who wins it—and Roach won it tonight with huge shot. WMN had chance and didn't.

Ryan Scott says he got it off.  Blackhawks says he didn't. Honestly, I don't think the resolution on the film is good enough to definitively say whether he got the shot off. If replay would have been allowed, there was not enough evidence to reverse the call. Had they said it was too late, same deal.  Replay would not have reversed the call.  Hard to argue with the call the refs made.  Honestly, I wish they would do away with replay.  Replay and the catch rule has messed up the NFL and it slows the games down way too much.

As for the traveling, the rule is NOT that they can't travel. The player has to keep one foot within a three foot space.  The player can jump, shuffle his or her feet. The inbounding players can move backwards as far as they want to.  Blackhawks--you have absolutely no case here.  The inbounding player for Whitworth shuffled his feet, but he did not move side to side at all. 

Some observations:

Sort of a fitting end to game three between these two teams.  Game four will hopefully measure up to the other 3.

I only got to watch the last 10 minutes (family games are a priority over alma mater games) but I really liked how Hernandez handled the press better than anyone else has.

I don't get this idea that Whitman is significantly better than Whitworth.  All three games have come down to the last second or millisecond). Whitman is more athletic, but Whitworth has guys that can shoot the lights out (so does Whitman, but not as many). The game does come down to putting the ball in the hoop and sometimes shooting teams win out.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 05:09:39 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2018, 04:32:04 PM
Ryan Scott says he got it off.  Blackhawks says he didn't. Honestly, I don't think the resolution on the film is good enough to definitively say whether he got the shot off. If replay would have been allowed, there was not enough evidence to reverse the call. Had they said it was too late, same deal.  Replay would not have reversed the call.  Hard to argue with the call the refs made.  Honestly, I wish they would do away with replay.  Replay and the catch rule has messed up the NFL and it slows the games down way too much.

As for the traveling, the rule is NOT that they can't travel. The player has to keep one foot within a three foot space.  The player can jump, shuffle his or her feet. The inbounding players can move backwards as far as they want to.  Blackhawks--you have absolutely no case here.  The inbounding player for Whitworth shuffled his feet, but he did not move side to side at all. 

Some observations:

Sort of a fitting end to game three between these two teams.  Game four will hopefully measure up to the other 3.

I only got to watch the last 10 minutes (family games are a priority over alma mater games) but I really liked how Hernandez handled the press better than anyone else has.

I don't get this idea that Whitman is significantly better than Whitworth.  All three games have come down to the last second or millisecond). Whitman is more athletic, but Whitworth has guys that can shoot the lights out (so does Whitman, but not as many). The game does come down to putting the ball in the hoop and sometimes shooting teams win out.

I'm going to preface these comments by saying this:  If Whitman wanted to win, they shouldn't have given up 3 offensive rebounds the possession before. 

Whitman also has NOT been playing well lately, and that was the case for this game.  In my opinion they're still playing with a "shoot first" mentality.  And when a team has so many weapons, it would be incredible to see them play with a pass first mentality.

Regarding the last two plays

Humor me:  Watch Tim Howell's possession:  Did he travel on the last call?  I dont see it.  I see two steps.  It's really irrelevant because he missed the shot anyways.  But ive been replaying the last play and noticed.

Next:  Inbounder is clearly shuffling his feet and fakes one way, then slides a few feet the other direction to make an inbound pass.  If the rule is in fact as A Buc states, that he has to stay within a 3 ft box, I would agree, no call is appropriate, he may have moved less than 3 ft.  If the rule is he has to keep a pivot foot down like the normal travelling call, there is no doubt he traveled.  That is what I though the rule was.  I could be incorrect.

Regarding the final shot, we have no way of knowing if clock started on time or didn't, so lets do away with that argument. 

Did he release on time? 

Ryan Scott--Check out the picture on the D3hoops lead article.  With the grainy quality of film (thanks again whitman), im willing to concede that i cant see definitive evidence on the tape.  Its so close.  I couldn't reverse a call.  BUT, look at the picture on the cover of D3Hoops.  Youll see that Roach actually realease the ball at the top of his jump (its still on his fingertips). That ball is not out of his hand in time. 

Nice play designed by Logie and bad defense by Blues.  Cant let Roach catch the ball on the run turning up court.  Need him to catch that with back to basket.

If Im the NCAA releasing a formal statement, its goes as follows:
1.  With 2 seconds left, Tim Howell's travel was not a travel.
2.  Citing credible poster, who would NOT lie, A Buc Forever, the inbounder did not move over 3 feet and he legally inbounded the ball.
3.  Regarding Roach's shot, because..and only because the film is on par with 1980's cable, there isnt sufficient evidence to overturn





Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 05:20:27 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2018, 04:32:04 PM
I don't get this idea that Whitman is significantly better than Whitworth.  All three games have come down to the last second or millisecond). Whitman is more athletic, but Whitworth has guys that can shoot the lights out (so does Whitman, but not as many). The game does come down to putting the ball in the hoop and sometimes shooting teams win out.

Whitman beat WW by 16 in first game.  Not close.

Whitman won by 1 at WW.

Whitworth beat WMN in 40 minutes and 1 seconds last game.

Whitman way better. Not close.   

Claremont is good.  Will beat WW in first round if matched up. 

Whitworths ONLY reputable win of the year was the last game over WMN.  Otherwise, I side with the D3hoops gasme who werent positive they were a tourney team without auto bid
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2018, 06:19:42 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 05:20:27 PM
Otherwise, I side with the D3hoops gasme who werent positive they were a tourney team without auto bid

this is kinda like when you said Whitworth has never made it past the sweet 16. It was pretty obvious and nobody on any other thread was debating wether Whitworth would get a pool C bid  going in to the conference tourney championship game. They weren't first off the board but they weren't anywhere near sweating come selection time.

It's too bad the Linfield guys don't have a basketball following. The blatantly made up crap that comes from blackhawks wouldn't go unchecked on the football boards like it does here. Sorry in advance for upsetting you again BluesBrother
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 26, 2018, 01:35:22 AM
Well, we're getting there.  ;)
Look over your shoulders.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2018, 11:56:36 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2018, 05:09:39 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 25, 2018, 04:32:04 PM
Ryan Scott says he got it off.  Blackhawks says he didn't. Honestly, I don't think the resolution on the film is good enough to definitively say whether he got the shot off. If replay would have been allowed, there was not enough evidence to reverse the call. Had they said it was too late, same deal.  Replay would not have reversed the call.  Hard to argue with the call the refs made.  Honestly, I wish they would do away with replay.  Replay and the catch rule has messed up the NFL and it slows the games down way too much.

As for the traveling, the rule is NOT that they can't travel. The player has to keep one foot within a three foot space.  The player can jump, shuffle his or her feet. The inbounding players can move backwards as far as they want to.  Blackhawks--you have absolutely no case here.  The inbounding player for Whitworth shuffled his feet, but he did not move side to side at all. 

Some observations:

Sort of a fitting end to game three between these two teams.  Game four will hopefully measure up to the other 3.

I only got to watch the last 10 minutes (family games are a priority over alma mater games) but I really liked how Hernandez handled the press better than anyone else has.

I don't get this idea that Whitman is significantly better than Whitworth.  All three games have come down to the last second or millisecond). Whitman is more athletic, but Whitworth has guys that can shoot the lights out (so does Whitman, but not as many). The game does come down to putting the ball in the hoop and sometimes shooting teams win out.

I'm going to preface these comments by saying this:  If Whitman wanted to win, they shouldn't have given up 3 offensive rebounds the possession before. 

Whitman also has NOT been playing well lately, and that was the case for this game.  In my opinion they're still playing with a "shoot first" mentality.  And when a team has so many weapons, it would be incredible to see them play with a pass first mentality.

Regarding the last two plays

Humor me:  Watch Tim Howell's possession:  Did he travel on the last call?  I dont see it.  I see two steps.  It's really irrelevant because he missed the shot anyways.  But ive been replaying the last play and noticed.

Next:  Inbounder is clearly shuffling his feet and fakes one way, then slides a few feet the other direction to make an inbound pass.  If the rule is in fact as A Buc states, that he has to stay within a 3 ft box, I would agree, no call is appropriate, he may have moved less than 3 ft.  If the rule is he has to keep a pivot foot down like the normal travelling call, there is no doubt he traveled.  That is what I though the rule was.  I could be incorrect

Rule 7, Section 6, Article 8 of the NCAA men's basketball rulebook has this to say about end-line throw-ins that do not follow a made basket:

QuoteArt. 8. The following pertain to a designated spot:
a The designated spot is the location at which a thrower-in is presented
disposal of the ball out of bounds as in 4-11.1.a through .c.
b. The designated spot shall be 3-feet wide with no depth limitation.
c. The thrower-in must keep one foot on or over the designated spot until
the ball is released. Pivot foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in
effect for a throw-in.

I didn't watch Saturday's Whit vs. Whit game, but as long as the inbounder kept at least one foot within that three-foot designated spot, he was perfectly within his rights to shuffle his feet back and forth.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2018, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 26, 2018, 01:35:22 AM
Well, we're getting there.  ;)
Look over your shoulders.

I can't see that far back...but hopefully continued success brings more of the Linfield faithful this way.

I've met and watched some football with the Linfield contingent, I don't think they thought I was a horrible person. WC11 is plenty big enough to say it to my face so there's really no need to say it behind my back
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2018, 01:42:19 PM
Whitworth v CMS in Walla Walla.

Whitman against "who cares they're gonna kill 'em and get the winner of Pirates v Stags"

CMS hasn't lost a game in 2 months, then again it was also the last game they played against a non-SCIAC opponent. Should be another good game against Whitworth for the right to play Whitman in round 2.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on February 26, 2018, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 25, 2018, 02:38:04 AM
Rat, you seem like a horrible person.

I couldn't disagree more on this. (509) is one of the good ones.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on February 26, 2018, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on February 26, 2018, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 25, 2018, 02:38:04 AM
Rat, you seem like a horrible person.

I couldn't disagree more on this. (509) is one of the good ones.

(509)hung with a bunch of us at UMHB and was nothing but gracious and insightful in a loss back in 2016. (509) calls em as he sees em....and when you think about it maybe not so bad that a Miss...er a Blues calls you out for being horrible....sure (509) will get even with BB during football season...oh never mind.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2018, 02:27:51 PM
Next football season I won't live up to my name and be "A Buc Forever" and I won't be on the same side as (509)Rat. I'll tell everyone then what kind of person he is. Go Pioneers!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2018, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2018, 02:27:51 PM
Next football season I won't live up to my name and be "A Buc Forever" and I won't be on the same side as (509)Rat. I'll tell everyone then what kind of person he is. Go Pioneers!!!!

That'll be your hill to die on...but I'll go ahead and root for L&C to beat everyone other than Whitworth. Partly to show my solidarity, and also because I hate George Fox...now that there are some Linfield guys trickling in here I expect a little karma bump for throwing shade at the NWC all time attendance leading Bruins

and lets not forget my avatar change which I felt really helped to convey a kinder and gentler Rat
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 26, 2018, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 25, 2018, 02:38:04 AM
Rat, you seem like a horrible person.

Says the guy that's judging someone on a message board after being here for a month or two

Are you mad because I talked about Howell faking an injury or about blackhawks fandom?

If your first reaction to someone not being seriously hurt after an injury scare is to call them a p***y, I think that makes you a horrible person.

Tim's knee got twisted pretty good. That's a scary moment, and it's hard to know in the moment how serious an injury is. Plenty of things are painful initially but not actually debilitating. That doesn't mean the pain isn't real. And I'd hope we're all glad when something that looks like it could be serious turns out not to be. You clearly have a low opinion of Howell, and so your reaction to him not being seriously hurt wasn't relief, it was to insult. I think that's horrible.

I'm sure you're not always this way, but in my short time on the boards it sure seems like there is something in you that is awfully quick to insult the competition. So, for now, I'll stand by my initial impressions -- but I'll be glad if/when a different side of you comes through.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2018, 09:00:22 PM
I just got lectured on knee injuries. How the tables have turned...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2018, 09:20:48 PM
I'm not defending or defaming Rat, but as a fellow doc who gets pulled out of the stands at high school games, I think drama kings and queens are the worst.  You know the kid is fine, but they say they saw stars or hurt their neck or they heard a pop and the next thing you know you are sitting with them holding up the game until the ambulance arrives or you are in the training room missing the 4th quarter.  Two minutes later they are fine.  That said, the first time you don't take the kid seriously.....
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2018, 10:11:22 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 26, 2018, 09:20:48 PM
I'm not defending or defaming Rat, but as a fellow doc who gets pulled out of the stands at high school games, I think drama kings and queens are the worst.  You know the kid is fine, but they say they saw stars or hurt their neck or they heard a pop and the next thing you know you are sitting with them holding up the game until the ambulance arrives or you are in the training room missing the 4th quarter.  Two minutes later they are fine.  That said, the first time you don't take the kid seriously.....

I would have taken Howell seriously when evaluating. The kid rolled around on the floor and then needed two grown men to carry him off due to an apparent inability to weight bear. He was back in the game within a few minutes without as much of a hitch in his step and no brace or sleeve. Not to mention kids that act like Howell are putting docs in a bind now a days (more so in football). Athlete oversells an injury, your evaluation is that he/she has a stable joint, or no significant head trauma occurred and now you're the heartless doc that let the kid go back in the game. The optics of that are getting worse. And then if the kid really does get an injury...now your whole eval comes into question.


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2018, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2018, 11:56:36 AM
Rule 7, Section 6, Article 8 of the NCAA men's basketball rulebook has this to say about end-line throw-ins that do not follow a made basket:

QuoteArt. 8. The following pertain to a designated spot:
a The designated spot is the location at which a thrower-in is presented
disposal of the ball out of bounds as in 4-11.1.a through .c.
b. The designated spot shall be 3-feet wide with no depth limitation.
c. The thrower-in must keep one foot on or over the designated spot until
the ball is released. Pivot foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in
effect for a throw-in.

I didn't watch Saturday's Whit vs. Whit game, but as long as the inbounder kept at least one foot within that three-foot designated spot, he was perfectly within his rights to shuffle his feet back and forth.

Nice work, thank you for this
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2018, 10:47:30 PM
Who needs help filling out their bracket?  I've got the winning ticket and I'm willing to share with you fine gentlemen.  Except for you Rat, you can't see it.

That Claremont-WW game is the highlight of the 1st round.  Really looking forward to that.  Their pg, Scarlett, can PLAY.  Who watched that game last year?  Claremont was really good and brought the same team back (I believe).  If I remember correctly, they are very disciplined and patient on offense.  Im anxious to see that style vs Whitworth.   Maybe some SCIACers will give us the scoop on Claremont. 

Schreiner will be coming in with a nothing to lose attitude and that's always nerve-racking.

EVERYBODY rooting for Sul Ross State (Texas) and Maryville (Tennessee).  Not likely, but if somehow those 2 advance, the sweet 16 will be spread throughout the country, and would require 3 flights instead of 2, which could open the door to hosting in Washington.  Otherwise, looks to me like 2nd round will be Minnesota or Wisconsin
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2018, 11:00:47 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on December 03, 2017, 10:15:44 PM

Whitman 16-0, WW 13-3, UPS 11-5, Lin 10-6.

WOW fellas, do you see that!  Pretty good huh?!  Missed it by 1 game. Missed it by 4 overtime points (If only George Fox would have held onto that WW upset).  Sometimes I even impress myself!  Can I get some karma points or what?

   CONFERENCE ONLY   
W-L   WIN %   
Whitman   16-0   
Whitworth   14-2   
Puget Sound   11-5   
Linfield   10-6      
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopfan555 on February 26, 2018, 11:04:59 PM
CMS is good and disciplined. Not an up and down team. Their guys are strong. Scarlett is legit. Whitworth displayed their toughness the other night and Roach is LEGIT!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 27, 2018, 12:02:03 AM
QuoteI'm sure you're not always this way, but in my short time on the boards it sure seems like there is something in you that is awfully quick to insult the competition. So, for now, I'll stand by my initial impressions -- but I'll be glad if/when a different side of you comes through.

This guy standing for a Missionary position.
Not quite smack.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2018, 12:33:38 AM
I watched the last two CMS games. They don't really "wow" you by anything that they do, but then you look at the scoreboard and they're winning comfortably. They got guys who can shoot, they don't beat themselves when they are playing well (which is often as of late), and they do a good job of staying in front of guys defensively. I mean look at their last two games. They got outrebounded and didn't force a ton of turnovers, but they were very efficient on offense, made a high % of their FG attempts and won comfortably.

Whitworth will be the best team they've played since Platteville, but if Scarlett and Lynds are both hitting 50% of their 3's like they did against PP they'll win for the second year in a row. Will be interesting to see if/how Whitworth plays them differently this go around.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CMSfan on February 27, 2018, 01:09:17 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2018, 12:33:38 AM
They don't really "wow" you by anything that they do, but then you look at the scoreboard and they're winning comfortably.

Yep, that's CMS. Tough, disciplined, and not easily flustered. They have a way of wearing teams down and going on a couple runs to get a lead that they don't relinquish. SCIAC isn't the strongest conference, obviously, but Oxy, Pomona, and Chapman were all formidable this year and the CMS winning streak is impressive.

While they've got a tough draw, at least they have familiar opponents in a familiar venue. If they somehow make it through the first weekend it'll be a heckuva way to get to their first Sweet 16 (at least I think it would be their first).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopfan555 on February 27, 2018, 01:43:50 AM
It's a tough draw for whoever makes it out of walla walla because they may face St. John's who is another top ten team. Three of the top ten teams in that group of 8 plus CMS who is much better than their record w an all American guard in Scarlett. Those are the top games in tournament, should be in sweet 16 but so be it
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2018, 01:45:43 AM
Why did CMS get beat by some SCIAC teams early and then run over those same teams later?  Was someone hurt, change of line-up, young team, etc?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Hoopfan555 on February 27, 2018, 01:59:49 AM
Scarlett was hurt early in the season didn't play. He is good. High basketball iq guard who creates and scores. When they got him back it changed their team
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 06:51:59 AM
Quote from: Hoopfan555 on February 27, 2018, 01:59:49 AM
Scarlett was hurt early in the season didn't play. He is good. High basketball iq guard who creates and scores. When they got him back it changed their team

They had a series of injuries this year.  They've only been mostly healthy since Christmas and only fully healthy the last two weeks or so.  The team you'll see this weekend is much more like the team that beat Whitworth last year (I think a little better) than the team they've been most of this season.

If you recall, Whitman had a little trouble with Occidental earlier this year; CMS is loads better than that team right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2018, 01:12:05 PM
This is the CMS team everyone expected coming into the season. d3 pollsters had them ranked 15th in the preseason poll, but when Scarlett didn't suit up and they dropped a bunch of games they quickly fell off the face of the earth. I think the Stags match up better with Whitworth than they do Whitman and even if they beat Whitworth comfortably that they have a very small chance of beating the Blues in Walla Walla. Probably more than most years, matchups are going to be an important part of who ends up advancing throughout this tournament IMO

You now have the d3hoops #1 and #2 in the same pod with CMS, winner of that pod potentially gets a weekend date with St. John's, WashU and Plateville. I don't think Whitworth is the second best team in the country (even if they had Lester), but I understand when you see a recent split with the team you believe to be #1 that polls may reflect that. Should be fun, Whitman should still make it out of Walla Walla and head to the Midwest for rounds 3 and 4, should be a lot of good games in early rounds...I'm excited
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on February 27, 2018, 04:47:57 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 27, 2018, 01:45:43 AM
Why did CMS get beat by some SCIAC teams early and then run over those same teams later? 

Claremont only lost its first conference game to Redlands and then won the other 15, plus two conference tournament games.

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2018, 12:33:38 AM
They got guys who can shoot, they don't beat themselves when they are playing well (which is often as of late), and they do a good job of staying in front of guys defensively.

You can always tell when Claremont is playing its game. You can't get the ball into the block, you can't get an open shot from the wing or the short corners, you can't drive the baseline, you can't get to the elbows. You end up passing the ball around the perimeter and flinging something at the basket.

OxyBob
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 02, 2018, 08:53:52 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 23, 2018, 12:36:58 AM
When you roll around on the ground long enough to get play stopped, lay there for another couple of minutes and then need help to hop off the court and into the locker room...you don't check back in 2 minutes later. I was ok with the taunting of opposing fans or whatever the old guys got upset about but this is where I start losing respect for a player.

Look familiar Rat? Got anything to say now?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 02, 2018, 08:59:16 PM
Thankful he's okay. Pulling for WW. And hate to see somebody go down like that.

Claremont really good
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 09:03:51 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 02, 2018, 08:53:52 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 23, 2018, 12:36:58 AM
When you roll around on the ground long enough to get play stopped, lay there for another couple of minutes and then need help to hop off the court and into the locker room...you don't check back in 2 minutes later. I was ok with the taunting of opposing fans or whatever the old guys got upset about but this is where I start losing respect for a player.

Look familiar Rat? Got anything to say now?

Head injury v knee injury where player couldn't walk off the court?

CMS is shooting over 60% from 3 and still losing. If they can't keep it up Whitworth will win by 10-15
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 09:18:06 PM
If we're done comparing apples and oranges...though I'm sure I could think of a loan origination analogy so it makes sense to you

Whitworth up 38-36 at the half. CMS shooting 66.7% from 3. CMS doing a very good job of staying between their man and the basket on D. Whitworth hasn't had many good looks or easy points around the rim. Definitely a better matchup for the Stags than Whitman will be if they can beat the Pirates. I think Howell and Butler and Hewitt would all have more success getting past their defenders, the Stags don't look like the most athletic team we've seen this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 02, 2018, 09:58:27 PM
Refs just botched that call! Gave WW a 5 pt swing!

You had a bump at the foul line. WW player decided to play on and shoot a layup. Claremont therefore plays on a fouls shooter. Refs call intentional and technical on logie.

Net result 4 free throws and ball for Pirates?! Vs 2  fts for Claremont.

I thought Claremont would be tougher match up for WMN but they don't rebound and get RATTLED by pressure

Scarlett...so good
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 10:02:58 PM
Hernandez is having his way with CMS defenders, scary to think what Howell would do to them
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 10:13:15 PM
Deja vu

It took a horrible game from roach and CMS shooting 55% from 3, but the Stags are gonna win again for the right to get beat by Whitman

Scarlett shoots the ball so dang well
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2018, 12:34:32 AM

I said CMS would come out of this weekend alive.  They've done half the work.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CMSfan on March 03, 2018, 10:16:16 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 10:13:15 PM
It took a horrible game from roach

I think you mean great defense from President.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 03, 2018, 11:09:34 AM
Final Thoughts on Last night's WW-CMS game:

Looking forward to tonights WMN-CMS game. What we saw out of CMS (strengths)

CMS weaknesses

I'm very curios to see how Claremont plays Whitman.  Will they take the leash off and run and take opportunites, or will they pull it out? Defensively, who guards Howell?  How does WMN handle that big guy--could be huge asset or huge liability.  WW pulled him out on D and exposed him, but WMN doesnt really have that player (like Jared Kelly)--unless Colton. 

Hoping Scarlett doesn't go crazy tonight--I think that's the only way they pull out a win.  Prediction:  I think its a 10 pt Whitman win, but by no means is it a given. 


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2018, 10:53:54 PM
Whitman up by 12 at the half. Howell leading all scorers...getting around the rim and making what most would consider circus shots, but anyone who watches him play regularly knows those are what he throws up and makes every game. CMS 4-10 from 3 (compared to 8-12 in the first half last night). Stags have their work cut out for them to get back in this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2018, 11:49:44 PM
CMS shot their way back in. 76-76 with 9 sec left and Whitman ball. This is where Howell gets the ball and drives to the hoop for a game winner. Otherwise we get free basketball.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 03, 2018, 11:53:55 PM
Howell gets bailed out by the refs but then chokes at the FT line. Overtime. If I'm Whitman I'm attacking President (4 fouls) early in OT.

Whitman shooting like they did earlier in the season, 24% from 3. Hewitt dragging that number down going 1-6.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 03, 2018, 11:55:13 PM
Well, hell, assistant coaches from Sweet 16 teams that stayed up late to watch the West Coast game just made a capital letter note: FOUL HOWEL IN THE LAST 2 MINUTES.

Blues Brothers announcers at 9.0 seconds, "There's still a lot of time and still a lot of work for the referees to do."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 04, 2018, 12:20:31 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 03, 2018, 11:53:55 PM
Howell gets bailed out by the refs but then chokes at the FT line. Overtime. If I'm Whitman I'm attacking President (4 fouls) early in OT.

Whitman shooting like they did earlier in the season, 24% from 3. Hewitt dragging that number down going 1-6.

and like a fighter, when down...gets back up to dominate overtime, and make every free throw.  finishes the night with 35 and a whitman win.

Enjoy your offseason, guys.



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2018, 09:04:44 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 04, 2018, 12:20:31 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 03, 2018, 11:53:55 PM
Howell gets bailed out by the refs but then chokes at the FT line. Overtime. If I'm Whitman I'm attacking President (4 fouls) early in OT.

Whitman shooting like they did earlier in the season, 24% from 3. Hewitt dragging that number down going 1-6.

and like a fighter, when down...gets back up to dominate overtime, and make every free throw.  finishes the night with 35 and a whitman win.

Enjoy your offseason, guys.

The hero of that game was Austin Butler - he locked down Scarlett in the OT - by the time Scarlett could actually get the ball, they were in too tough a spot for him to bail them out.  Butler is truly one of the most talented players in the country.  We don't give out a national DPOY, but if we did, I think he'd be a shoe-in.  Truly, truly impressive - and he's not even a senior.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 02:22:27 PM
I've said this before... worth repeating... I think Whitman is going to be much better next year thanks to two seniors, hopefully, returning to the line up... and without Howell. He has his moments to be sure, but there are times I watch the games and think he is actually doing more to hurt the team than help them. Just considering that. No need to get into a back-and-forth. I just think addition by subtraction next season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 07, 2018, 09:51:32 AM
Let's not overlook 35 points in the biggest game of the year. Him getting into the lane creates so much opportunity. Hard to replace.

Te fact that we can even have this conversation speaks to how ridiculously talented that Whitman program is

Stevens Point has the same players but look like they are a different team than the one Whitman beat earlier in the year. Seem to have clicked.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 12:36:29 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 07, 2018, 09:51:32 AM
Let's not overlook 35 points in the biggest game of the year. Him getting into the lane creates so much opportunity. Hard to replace.

Te fact that we can even have this conversation speaks to how ridiculously talented that Whitman program is

Stevens Point has the same players but look like they are a different team than the one Whitman beat earlier in the year. Seem to have clicked.

Stevens Point is well coached. No getting around that. They have seemed to figure things out especially on defense. Their offense still worries me. I've been told by those close that they are being efficient, and I can appreciate that. However, I think you have to have the ability to put up points again Whitman... and I don't see UWSP haven't that ability. The trick will be slowing Whitman down. They had some success with that and they have seen Whitman's full-court presence now in person. I do think UWSP will be prepared. I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

As for Howell, I know he can drive and put up shots and I realize he had 35 in the title game, but for all of that he takes some awfully bad shots on the assumption that what he throws up will go in... and he has nearly cost the team with that mentality and not hitting timely shots. Sometimes it feels like he forgets he has teammates and wants to be the show. That nearly cost them in their second game against Whitworth this year. A foul was rightly called on the last play, but he was headed into no-man's land with no decent look, even by his standards, at the basket or a shot. If he isn't fouled there, Whitworth wins. There were guys open who could hit their shots as well. I don't see him turn to them all that often especially as games progress on. It seems those guys get their points when they don't pass the ball to Howell.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 07, 2018, 04:15:03 PM
I'll agree that many of his floaters are unorthodox and appear to be very difficult shots. But bad shots—I disagree. Statistically speaking, he shoots 52% from the floor, which is excellent. I'll align my stance with the stats and argue that he makes more of these difficult shots than he misses.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 07, 2018, 04:20:56 PM
I'll add that Tim Howell penetrating down the lane to shoot a floater (no matter how difficult) draws the helpside defense and opens up the entire weak side for offensive rebounds and east put backs. And that is very good offense for whitman
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:26:30 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 07, 2018, 04:20:56 PM
I'll add that Tim Howell penetrating down the lane to shoot a floater (no matter how difficult) draws the helpside defense and opens up the entire weak side for offensive rebounds and east put backs. And that is very good offense for whitman

I am not taking anything away from the offense... I think this team has succeeded because of the rest of the team who have been terrific.

Yes, Howell makes a more than he misses, but he is on a tightrope and this year I don't think he elevated himself. He felt flat much of the season compared to past seasons. This team is going to be terrific next season IF they get those two starters who missed this year back...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 06:55:48 PM

Point's issue will be their lack of size this year.  In a typical year, they'd be able to slow the pace down AND bang it inside against a smaller Whitman team.  This year the teams are much more alike in size and I suspect Whitman's pace and athleticism is the difference.  If Point can do a classic UWSP-perimeter defensive job, they can win, but I'm not sure this team is quite up to it.  I'd say 80-20 Whitman - not a surprise, necessarily if Point wins, but it would definitely be an upset.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 07, 2018, 11:26:10 PM
 Who wants to see me break the golden rule with this question?

What would a Whitman-Platteville matchup look like?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2018, 07:36:34 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 07, 2018, 11:26:10 PM
Who wants to see me break the golden rule with this question?

What would a Whitman-Platteville matchup look like?

Platteville's main contributors are on the small side as well.  I'd say they probably lack Point's defensive ceiling, but are a far better offensive team.  Platteville was roundly better than UWSP during the bulk of the year.  Pace will again likely be the determining factor.  I believe Platteville is more prepared and capable of playing a faster pace than is Stevens Point.  Although, this makes NWU a tougher matchup for them as well.  Maybe some tired legs, if they come through at all?

Not a bad draw for the Blues - if they'd been with Oshkosh, Augie, and JCU, it could've been tougher, matchup-wise.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 08, 2018, 01:02:50 PM
I'm with blackhawks. It doesn't matter what Howell's shot selection looks like (before it goes in the hoop), because he makes a majority of them. He gets to the rim and finishes anywhere within 10 feet of it, better than anyone on that team. To me his apparent bad shot selection only matters if he doesn't make them. And it looks like he shouldn't...but he does.

I think he does more for Stewart and Osborne than any of the other guards and I think several other players are going to be less effective without Howell. Now Duckett does some things better than Howell (mostly just a more effective midrange shot/game), but I'm not convinced he's an immediate upgrade year one A.H. (After Howell..don't lecture me on the misused anno domini reference, I went to a Christian school too). As an opposing fan I would also like to see the ball in Butler's hands more often when the Blues are on offense, though his role may not change much without Howell.

I don't know anything about Platteville other than watching them for 10-15 min against St. Olaf. It seems UWSP is playing better than they did earlier in the season when they lost round 1 to Whitman, but I'm not sure how much better. I don't think a lack of size is guaranteed to hurt you against Whitman. It only really helps if the post player is very effective offensively. Whitworth matched up better this year IMO after losing a 6-10 center, because he wasn't that good and ended up being a liability against the Blues. But if you're gonna be small you have to be athletic enough to keep up and you gotta make shots from the outside.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2018, 05:14:34 PM
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The Sectional Round games are here. Soon 16 teams on both the men's and women's brackets will be whittled to eight ... and before we know it just four will remain.

Who will advance, who will fall short of the final weekend, and who is best prepared? Hard to answer all of those questions, but on Thursday's edition of Hoopsville Dave will have plenty of guests who will give us their insight on their programs.

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7pm ET right here:http://bit.ly/2FBCA0N.

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Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Bob Amsberry, No. 2 Wartburg women's coach
- Brian Morehouse, No. 4 Hope women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Glenn Robinson, Franklin & Marshall men's coach
- Charlie Brock, Springfield men's coach
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 1 Whitman men's coach
- Jim Scheible, No. 16 Rochester women's coach

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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 08, 2018, 06:19:58 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 06:55:48 PM

Point's issue will be their lack of size this year.  In a typical year, they'd be able to slow the pace down AND bang it inside against a smaller Whitman team.  This year the teams are much more alike in size and I suspect Whitman's pace and athleticism is the difference.  If Point can do a classic UWSP-perimeter defensive job, they can win, but I'm not sure this team is quite up to it.  I'd say 80-20 Whitman - not a surprise, necessarily if Point wins, but it would definitely be an upset.

This is an important point. This matchup reminds me a lot of the 2003-04 Sweet 16 match-up between UWSP and another Eric Bridgeland coached team in Puget Sound... when Stevens Point was able to slow UPS down and cut down their drives (with a zone... which isn't in Bob Semling's vocabulary) and the taller Pointers threw over the top of the press (the '03-04 Stevens Point team had 11 guys 6'5" or taller).

Nick Bennett had 37 that night, most shots of the lay-up variety.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 09, 2018, 07:39:25 PM
Whitman having a relatively easy time with UWSP. Up 13 a quarter of the way through the second half.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2018, 08:16:49 PM
Anybody got anything to say about Tim Howell's performance tonight?


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 10, 2018, 03:31:25 PM
Yes. What are the shooting and free throw percentages?
Didn't watch.
THX

EDIT:
I found the box score on Hoops:
8 for 13
0 3 TP
5 TO
4 AST
2-3 FT
1 REB
4 PF
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 10, 2018, 08:53:31 PM
Whitman getting absolutely monkey stomped. Down 26 with 1 sec left in the first half...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 10, 2018, 09:08:09 PM
It's getting worse...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 10, 2018, 09:31:01 PM
NWU on pace to drop 130 on Whitman
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 10, 2018, 10:05:11 PM
I will never admonish a NWC team who exits earlier than expected from the tourney. It's typically a tough road where you play national champion caliber teams on their home courts in the second weekend. Congrats to Whitman on a good season even if tonight's performance was a huge letdown.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 10:11:24 PM
Whitman ran into a NWU team that would have beat ANY team in the nation tonight, nothing to be ashamed of for the Blues. Another great season and should be very solid again next year, returning a lot for 2018-2019 season.

I have heard rumors about Whitman possibly adding a real nice player, but I will wait until I see something more concrete to comment further.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 10, 2018, 11:11:07 PM
NWU shot 68% and more than 70% for most of the game... that's insane.

Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 10:11:24 PM
I have heard rumors about Whitman possibly adding a real nice player, but I will wait until I see something more concrete to comment further.

Well ... hopefully two guys who were supposed to start this year and didn't play. :)

I heard something similar, BTW... but I work on the idea that until that individual has paid their deposit, shown up on campus, starting to go to class, gotten to practice, gotten a jersey, and then actually gotten into a game... I don't usually worry about it. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 11, 2018, 12:30:20 AM
Recapping:

This game started out with Whitman shooters having great looking 3 point attempts go half way down and come out (Jack Stewart in particular had 3-4). Shots Whitman is happy with him taking all day everyday. It was like the rim have a lid over it. What should have been a tie game turned into a quick 15 pt deficit.

Then you had Nebraska Wesleyan just go nuts. Give them credit though. They were throwing darts over the smaller whitman players in the press. And then  they took advantage of the opportunities that they had. They got a layup or a wide-open three all night. Yes they were completely on fire, but you're also going to shoot a pretty high percentage when you're shooting a layup from 1 foot away from the rim or a wide-open three.   

I think the length of this Nebraska Wesleyan team had a lot to do with tonight's game.  Whitman missed a ton of early steals by an inch. I kept thinking they were just getting unlucky. Then it happened 10 more times. It was their length. Nebraska Weslyan didn't turn the ball over very much, Whitman really relies on this.

Isn't it crazy how Nebraska Wesleyan beat Platteville at the buzzer to get into the elite 8. Whitman beat Stevens Point by 10 and 13 this year, but it wasn't close at all. Platteville and Stevens point duked it out in the same conference.  And Nebraska Weslyan just puts a 30 point whipping on Whitman.

I honestly don't know what would happen if these two teams played 10 times. I would be curious


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on March 11, 2018, 12:29:04 PM
Congrats to Whitman on the great season.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2018, 12:49:22 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 11, 2018, 12:30:20 AM
Recapping:

This game started out with Whitman shooters having great looking 3 point attempts go half way down and come out (Jack Stewart in particular had 3-4). Shots Whitman is happy with him taking all day everyday. It was like the rim have a lid over it. What should have been a tie game turned into a quick 15 pt deficit.

Then you had Nebraska Wesleyan just go nuts. Give them credit though. They were throwing darts over the smaller whitman players in the press. And then  they took advantage of the opportunities that they had. They got a layup or a wide-open three all night. Yes they were completely on fire, but you're also going to shoot a pretty high percentage when you're shooting a layup from 1 foot away from the rim or a wide-open three.   

I think the length of this Nebraska Wesleyan team had a lot to do with tonight's game.  Whitman missed a ton of early steals by an inch. I kept thinking they were just getting unlucky. Then it happened 10 more times. It was their length. Nebraska Weslyan didn't turn the ball over very much, Whitman really relies on this.

Isn't it crazy how Nebraska Wesleyan beat Platteville at the buzzer to get into the elite 8. Whitman beat Stevens Point by 10 and 13 this year, but it wasn't close at all. Platteville and Stevens point duked it out in the same conference.  And Nebraska Weslyan just puts a 30 point whipping on Whitman.

I honestly don't know what would happen if these two teams played 10 times. I would be curious

It is amazing how matchups can change games in ways hard to see on paper. That is one of the biggest reasons I am actually not a fan of point-spreads as an indication of a team's strength (or lack of strength). One game with different matchups throws everything out the window. Seen it far too many times.

I will say I would love to see them play a series, because I am not sure NWU could shoot that well every game. Not a knock on them, but not many teams can consistently shoot 68% from the floor. LOL

Good season by Whitman. They and several others next year come back fully loaded. May actually create an upper tier we haven't had in quite some time.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 12, 2018, 12:27:29 AM
QuoteThis game started out with Whitman shooters having great looking 3 point attempts go half way down and come out

So they missed a lot of threes.

QuoteWhitman missed a ton of early steals by an inch.

A miss is as good as a mile. So they weren't getting steals.

I did not watch the game.
Thanks for the follow-up,
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 12, 2018, 10:37:23 AM
Probably Whitworth's best team had a game against Wooster in the elite 8 (on Wooster's home court) where they had shots like that. I know A Buc remembers. It was like Wooster had a string above the rim that a student in the rafters could pull on and yank the ball back up out of the net. Very frustrating, especially since 1-2 of those falling could have meant a trip to the final 4. Not sure if its any less painful when it happens in a 30 point loss.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mike Rejniak on March 12, 2018, 11:32:48 AM
​Dear D3 Faithful ;D,
     I have read many of your posts throughout the years and even met some of you in person, but for those who I haven't met, let me introduce myself: my name is Michael Rejniak and I have spent over 14 years coaching Division 3 basketball and love what our division has done and continues to do for  the sport of basketball. One of the greatest things about Division 3 basketball is the brotherhood that we all have with one another (coaches and players alike). My wish is to showcase the talents of D3 on a national stage in The Basketball Tournament (TBT).  You may have heard me speak about this on the Hoopsville Marathon with Dave McHugh of D3hoops.com (at the 6:11 mark). The TBT is a national tournament that is televised in July/August on ESPN after the NBA season is over. My goal is to put forth an all-star D3 team (current players are ineligible) and have them compete in this tournament to take on Former D1 / semi-pro's to prove that D3 deserves the same respect as other NCAA divisions. The team is mostly complete with former student-athletes from all over the country competing. Once the roster is complete we will be sure to release it through d3hoops. Former Babson College National Champion Matthew Droney '17 will also be assisting me on this journey.

How YOU can help our former elite D3 basketball players

While the end prize of this tournament is a monetary prize, being a D3-lifer, the goal is not the money (we all know that's not why we get into coaching), the goal is to bring an end to the stigma of Division 3 basketball, an awareness of how talented our student-athletes are and that we can compete (and win) against the best. We do need to raise funds for an entry fee, travel, meal and housing expenses for the athletes. In order to do this, we are conducting a crowd-funding campaign through GoFundMe to help make this a reality. These athletes need your support! Just think -- if every Division 3 school donated just $10, we will have raised over $4,000!!!! The link to the GoFundMe Page is below and please SPREAD THE WORD and email me with any questions/concerns at WeAreD3TBT@gmail.com. Thank you in advance for your support and Dave and I look forward to this "D3 Dream Team" taking the court this summer.-Mike Rejniak

Support "We Are D3" In The TBT
https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT (https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2018, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 12, 2018, 10:37:23 AM
Probably Whitworth's best team had a game against Wooster in the elite 8 (on Wooster's home court) where they had shots like that. I know A Buc remembers. It was like Wooster had a string above the rim that a student in the rafters could pull on and yank the ball back up out of the net. Very frustrating, especially since 1-2 of those falling could have meant a trip to the final 4. Not sure if its any less painful when it happens in a 30 point loss.

Perhaps it's no less painful, but it's a lot less relevant.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2018, 01:53:00 PM
I haven't been over here in awhile, so I'm sure it's been discussed...are Wiggins and Harrison returning next season for Whitman?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2018, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2018, 01:53:00 PM
I haven't been over here in awhile, so I'm sure it's been discussed...are Wiggins and Harrison returning next season for Whitman?

We haven't been told otherwise.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 14, 2018, 02:05:06 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2018, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2018, 01:53:00 PM
I haven't been over here in awhile, so I'm sure it's been discussed...are Wiggins and Harrison returning next season for Whitman?

We haven't been told otherwise.

That is what we have been told is the hope/plan.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2018, 07:15:21 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 14, 2018, 02:05:06 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2018, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2018, 01:53:00 PM
I haven't been over here in awhile, so I'm sure it's been discussed...are Wiggins and Harrison returning next season for Whitman?

We haven't been told otherwise.

That is what we have been told is the hope/plan.

They've been on the bench and with the team every time I've watch Whitman games this year.  I don't believe they were part of senior day (although I could be wrong).  I think they're planning to be back.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on March 20, 2018, 11:55:20 AM
It seems that in the locker room at Platteville before the Whitman game, NWU Coach Dale Wellman wrote a message on the board;

To be the best, we have to beat the best.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 11, 2018, 10:30:26 PM
A little intraconference movement here:
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/04/puget-sound-coach-moves-to-pacific
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 19, 2018, 07:41:24 AM
I always thought UPS played an up-tempo style, but apparently the coach just implemented the new system this past year.

http://www.loggerathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20180404rg28b0

It will be interesting if Coach Lunt will take that to Pacific and if UPS will continue with this new style.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 19, 2018, 09:58:10 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 19, 2018, 07:41:24 AM
I always thought UPS played an up-tempo style, but apparently the coach just implemented the new system this past year.

http://www.loggerathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20180404rg28b0

It will be interesting if Coach Lunt will take that to Pacific and if UPS will continue with this new style.

My guess is he does. He can't keep up with Whitworth and Whitman in terms of recruiting, so he found a gimmick to try and beat em with inferior talent. It had about the same effect in Tacoma as it does in Iowa, you give some teams trouble with worse players and beat some people you shouldn't but ultimately can't beat the big boys with any sort of consistency. He won't necessarily get better basketball players at Pacific so I don't see why he abandons it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on May 15, 2018, 08:08:25 AM
Quote from: bball1122 on May 15, 2018, 07:25:50 AM
It's official - Michael Gutierrez leaving Mac and transferring to Whitman:

https://twitter.com/Big_Guut/status/996223913427337217

http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2018/5/14/mens-basketball-welcomes-four-in-2018-recruiting-class.aspx

From the MIAC boards...

Whitman got a good player in Gutierrez, he tore his ACL last year so he was unable to play but he will fit into the high tempo, lot of possession basketball the Blues play.  He goes from one of the most losing programs in D3 to one of the most winning programs of D3 as of late, will be fun for him to compete for a national championship.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on May 15, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on May 15, 2018, 08:08:25 AM
Quote from: bball1122 on May 15, 2018, 07:25:50 AM
It's official - Michael Gutierrez leaving Mac and transferring to Whitman:

https://twitter.com/Big_Guut/status/996223913427337217

http://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2018/5/14/mens-basketball-welcomes-four-in-2018-recruiting-class.aspx

From the MIAC boards...

Whitman got a good player in Gutierrez, he tore his ACL last year so he was unable to play but he will fit into the high tempo, lot of possession basketball the Blues play.  He goes from one of the most losing programs in D3 to one of the most winning programs of D3 as of late, will be fun for him to compete for a national championship.

Vickers is a nice pickup for the Blues as well!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 16, 2018, 06:41:38 AM

An embarrassment of riches, especially with Harrison and Wiggins coming back.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on June 15, 2018, 04:36:33 PM
Tweet from Logie


@CoachLogie
In the last 12 years there have been 24 @NorthwestConf 🏆 awarded for reg. season and tournament champions. @WhitworthMBB has 21 of them...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 27, 2018, 10:45:12 AM
I'll be very interested to see how the current Pacific players adjust to new Coach Lunt's high pressure defense, up-tempo offense he's bringing over from UPS. The Loggers seemed to have adjusted pretty well in their first and only year in his new system. Of course, I took a shot at Pacific by drafting them in our fantasy league!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 27, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 27, 2018, 10:45:12 AM
I'll be very interested to see how the current Pacific players adjust to new Coach Lunt's high pressure defense, up-tempo offense he's bringing over from UPS. The Loggers seemed to have adjusted pretty well in their first and only year in his new system. Of course, I took a shot at Pacific by drafting them in our fantasy league!

I'm not sure Coach Lunt is a one-trick pony. He very well may adjust his style to what he has. I don't remember him having just one way of doing things. I could be wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 27, 2018, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 27, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 27, 2018, 10:45:12 AM
I'll be very interested to see how the current Pacific players adjust to new Coach Lunt's high pressure defense, up-tempo offense he's bringing over from UPS. The Loggers seemed to have adjusted pretty well in their first and only year in his new system. Of course, I took a shot at Pacific by drafting them in our fantasy league!

I'm not sure Coach Lunt is a one-trick pony. He very well may adjust his style to what he has. I don't remember him having just one way of doing things. I could be wrong.

http://www.goboxers.com/news/2018/4/25/mens-basketball-boxer-buzz-featuring-justin-lunt.aspx

This interview made it sound like he's planning on implementing the up-tempo style. He only implemented it just last season at UPS and he even noted they figured it out quickly.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 27, 2018, 04:37:35 PM
I get that... but even you said he only implemented it last year. I know many coaches that rather see what they have for talent (granted, he knows them from the league) before making that decision.

Quotes like those I take kind of below face value. I realize how much can change. LOL

That said... learned a fascinating story from an east coast school on an added item to their interview process ... give us a coaching symposium for lack of a better term. One coach talked about how he would beat a high and mightly power in a particular sport. Broke it all down from scouting and the like... was the deciding factor. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2018, 03:04:52 PM
Preseason men's Top 25 is out!
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/10/preseason-mens-top-25
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: smedindy on November 05, 2018, 02:16:57 PM
Saw George Fox Saturday night at CWU. The Bruins got whapped 118-70. Ryan Lacey had a nice game for George Fox with 23, but he needed more help and didn't get it. Green-Richards only had 12 on 4-14 shooting (1-8 from 3).  Hamlett went 0-11 and had trouble with the CWU bigs. They committed 25 fouls, and most of those were due to being in bad defensive position. It may be a long year, again.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 05, 2018, 05:36:44 PM
Might be a couple of NWC teams with coaching changes (and transfers...) that take a little step back. I wouldn't be surprised to see a .500 type record get the 4 seed. Basically everyone not named Whit-something can pencil in 4 losses. Linfield actually looks to be in a good position to improve on last season and finish 3rd. I think UPS hiring Shelton was a good move. Knows the high school seen, very familiar with the University and d3 recruiting challenges, schematically probably won't change a ton which will be nice for current players. Those two teams have to be the favorites to end up in the 3/4 spots come conference tourney time. Lunt loses a couple of key seniors at Pacific, no idea whats coming in. His style will keep what looks like the smallest team in the league (and one that may not be as talented as last season) in plenty of games. PLU can't get worse I guess. L&C probably will get worse. Willamette rarely puts a good product on the court. So I guess Fox may be able to stay in the hunt...6-10 finished 5th in the conference last year...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 14, 2018, 01:05:04 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2018, 03:04:52 PM
Preseason men's Top 25 is out!
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/10/preseason-mens-top-25

Thanks for the link.  I have a question about Nebraska Wesleyan making the transition from NAIA to NCAA III.  I remember when the NWC made that switch and the conference seemed to dominate the national football scene for a short bit. The NWC made the transition in 1998-99 and PLU won the national championship in football in 1999.  Linfield won national championships won in 2004. No team has been very close since then. At least that is my recollection.  During the transition, do the kids brought in with NAIA scholarships keep the scholarship? If not, how many kids on the team were brought in with a scholarship and then stayed and just paid their way through?  I did have a conversation with the Menlo College football coach about playing teams from the NWC soon after the conference made the transition and he said they were going to find it more difficult to beat other DIII teams in a few years.  My question is how much of advantage, if any, is Nebraska Wesleyan having right now because of the transition?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 14, 2018, 01:16:31 PM
I'm guessing that's why there is a 4-year transitional period, to weed out the scholarship players?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2018, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 14, 2018, 01:05:04 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2018, 03:04:52 PM
Preseason men's Top 25 is out!
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/10/preseason-mens-top-25

Thanks for the link.  I have a question about Nebraska Wesleyan making the transition from NAIA to NCAA III.  I remember when the NWC made that switch and the conference seemed to dominate the national football scene for a short bit. The NWC made the transition in 1998-99 and PLU won the national championship in football in 1999.  Linfield won national championships won in 2004. No team has been very close since then. At least that is my recollection.  During the transition, do the kids brought in with NAIA scholarships keep the scholarship? If not, how many kids on the team were brought in with a scholarship and then stayed and just paid their way through?  I did have a conversation with the Menlo College football coach about playing teams from the NWC soon after the conference made the transition and he said they were going to find it more difficult to beat other DIII teams in a few years.  My question is how much of advantage, if any, is Nebraska Wesleyan having right now because of the transition?

Nobody at NWU was on scholarship. Schools that hold dual membership in NAIA and NCAA Division III had to follow the more restrictive rule, and that meant giving no athletic-related financial aid.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2018, 11:07:33 PM
To follow up on Pat's comment ... they were still a full-fledged member of DIII. They still declared, in each sport, whether they would be eligible, and thus apply for a schedule waiver (due to the number of games against DIII opponents), for national tournaments.

There was no delay in them coming "fully" into DIII.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on November 15, 2018, 01:26:19 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on November 14, 2018, 01:05:04 PM
Linfield won national championships won in 2004. No team has been very close since then.

Linfield was in the National Semifinals in 2009, 2014, and 2015.  I think the last 4 teams in the country is pretty close.



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 15, 2018, 02:47:57 PM
Long road ahead for Thomas More

It's going to be a long road ahead for Thomas More, writes Ryan Scott, while Whitman brought back a ton of talent from last year's team and has to somehow find playing time for even more people! Check it out in this week's Around the Nation.

https://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/index

(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=i7y32/3smrnzi3wuek4o6r.jpg)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 16, 2018, 09:38:31 PM
Whitworth beat #23 St. Olaf today 75-55
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2018, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 16, 2018, 09:38:31 PM
Whitworth beat #23 St. Olaf today 75-55

#6 Whitworth ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 17, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2018, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 16, 2018, 09:38:31 PM
Whitworth beat #23 St. Olaf today 75-55

#6 Whitworth ;)

Dave with the assist!

#4 Whitman rolls Sul Ross St 97-61

I watched the Blues game for a little bit. It was a ten minute stretch in the first half where the team from TX managed to score 2 points. Whitman really has an embarrassment of riches. I bet they'll look a lot like recent Gonzaga teams where 6-7 different guys are leading the team in scoring on any given night. Butler and Hewitt are probably gonna out touch the other guys most nights but they have a bunch of guys who are capable of going off on any given night.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on November 17, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 17, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
#4 Whitman rolls Sul Ross St 97-61

Whitman seemed  a little out of sync at times, but the depth really is impressive. I think the second five would have a decent shot at beating the starting five in a best of seven.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 17, 2018, 02:40:51 PM

Whitman's real issue is that they don't often get punished for mistakes, because of depth and speed.  When they hit a team with a really strong starting five (Whitworth, Nebraska Wesleyan, for example) that doesn't panic and is in good shape, those turnovers hurt them.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 17, 2018, 10:19:50 PM
A lot of "embarrassment of riches" talk centered around the Whitman squad.  Its couldn't be more true.  This entire roster assembled by Bridgeland and Airy can flat out play.  Whoever said their second five would beat most, is absolutely correct.

They have all-conference transfers like Vickers and Gutierrez coming off the bench--who haven't played well yet, but will.  Jase Harrison, an All Conference guy from 2016 who missed last year to injury. He's been off to an ice cold start, but will turn it around.  But when you have 10 others that are playing well, it doesn't matter.

Triple Double Watch in Walla Walla.  Austin Butler has 6/5/5 at half time.  Seems like the scorekeeper has been a little stingy on the assists though.

Trevor Osborne, Jack Stewart, Darne Ducket, Robert Colton, Cedric Jacobs Jones, Jaron Kirkley...it goes on and on.

Did I forget to mention preseason All-American Joey Hewitt?

And they are playing as unselfish as I have ever seen.  Constantly making the extra pass.  They might not have a guy average more than 12 ppg. 

I dont know much about Wooster, Alma, and Illionis Welseyan?

There's those three, and Whitworth is always a battle, but I think theres a chance WMN goes undefeated.  This is a serious National Championship contender.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 17, 2018, 02:40:51 PM

Whitman's real issue is that they don't often get punished for mistakes, because of depth and speed.  When they hit a team with a really strong starting five (Whitworth, Nebraska Wesleyan, for example) that doesn't panic and is in good shape, those turnovers hurt them.


This is dead on, Ryan Scott. Except I'm not concerned about turnovers. Elite teams will expose any weakness.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on November 17, 2018, 11:11:27 PM
Whitman is one of my very favorite teams to watch at any level. The team has a beautiful blend of athletes, selflessness, pace, shooters with all 5 players on the court at all time. I am very excited for the IWU, Wooster and of course the Whitworth games.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 24, 2018, 05:33:48 PM
Whitworth is about to lose to UT Dallas. Yuck. I've only seen the past 2-3 minutes but they have played exactly zero defense in that span.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 4samuy on November 25, 2018, 12:32:19 AM
Not really impressed with Whitman. A lot of dribbling.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on November 25, 2018, 12:42:25 AM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 25, 2018, 12:32:19 AM
Not really impressed with Whitman. A lot of dribbling.

And the clutch three point shooting.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 4samuy on November 25, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
I'll give you that WUPHF, but as we know, you live and die with constant 3 point shooting. And they died. I thought Pomona had a better inside/outside balanced attack to their game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on November 25, 2018, 12:59:40 AM
Pomona was very impressive, no question.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 25, 2018, 11:29:04 AM

Turnovers and missed FTs against a disciplined, hot-shooting team.  When Whitman loses, this is the profile.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 25, 2018, 12:53:50 PM
What Ryan said

PP did what you have to do to beat Whitman. If they can avoid too many SCIAC losses then maybe they'll even get to host a pod this year...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 26, 2018, 08:52:44 PM
What Ryan & Rat said. 

Pitzer is a very good team.  I actually think they're better than Claremont was last year.  Claremont last year had Scarlett, who was outstanding, but Pitzer this year has #5 & #10, both who are extremely talented, and have size.  Pitzer has a good supporting cast too, and are very disciplined.   I think they are one of the top 15 teams in the country.  They have a very interesting matchup Friday, traveling to Wash U. 

On Whitman's side, 9-20 from the free throw line really hurts in a 3 point loss.  But all in all, it was a double overtime loss on the road to a very good team.  I have a feeling these two will meet again down the road.

Sure Butler had 10 extra minutes, but narrowly missed a triple double, with 9-12-12.

   



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2018, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 25, 2018, 12:53:50 PM
What Ryan said

PP did what you have to do to beat Whitman. If they can avoid too many SCIAC losses then maybe they'll even get to host a pod this year...

I don't see a situation where PP would be hosting a pod. That requires three flights unless somehow another SCIAC team gets into the tournament. I suspect we get two NWC teams in ... and hosting up there only requires, then, two flights. That said, I know the committee is already looking to keep the Whits from seeing each other in the opening weekend. We may get lucky.

But one more reason I think PP or any SCIAC team is going to struggle to be in a hosting position, the West Region is LOADED with good teams and I don't think the SCIAC can overcome what usually is deficiencies in the criteria to raise to a hosting position. The NWC have at least two teams who will be ranked, the ARC will have two or three, and the MIAC will arguably have two or three teams. When there are eight slots ... there isn't a lot of room.

I would love to see the SCIAC host, I just don't see it on paper. I know it is early in the season, but basing this on historic knowledge coupled with looking at how this season could play out.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 27, 2018, 01:42:18 PM
Of course Whitworth has lost in the opening round the last two years so no one has had to worry about Whitman and Whitworth playing each other!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2018, 04:42:54 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 27, 2018, 01:42:18 PM
Of course Whitworth has lost in the opening round the last two years so no one has had to worry about Whitman and Whitworth playing each other!

Yeah ... unfortunate ... and fortunate. But we were worried non-the-less since it was set-up as much. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 02, 2018, 12:04:53 PM
Whits sweep Willamette and Pacific. Willamette played a good game against the Pirates. Whitman dismantled both. Pacific is going to win some games because of their "style" but Lunt is working with less talent than he was in Tacoma IMO. I actually thought Willamette looked like the better team. Linfield beat up on PLU and L&C who I don't think anyone expects to be very good. The loss to the solutes doesn't look great, but they have a shot against Neb Wesleyan in a few weeks that will I think give us a better idea of how they'll stack up against the Whits.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2018, 07:03:05 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 17, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2018, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 16, 2018, 09:38:31 PM
Whitworth beat #23 St. Olaf today 75-55

#6 Whitworth ;)

Dave with the assist!

#4 Whitman rolls Sul Ross St 97-61

I watched the Blues game for a little bit. It was a ten minute stretch in the first half where the team from TX managed to score 2 points. Whitman really has an embarrassment of riches. I bet they'll look a lot like recent Gonzaga teams where 6-7 different guys are leading the team in scoring on any given night. Butler and Hewitt are probably gonna out touch the other guys most nights but they have a bunch of guys who are capable of going off on any given night.
Catching up on the other boards...

I know that the head coach at Sul Ross wanted to play a national schedule, which is why he scheduled the trip to the northwest.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2018, 10:34:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2018, 07:03:05 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 17, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2018, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on November 16, 2018, 09:38:31 PM
Whitworth beat #23 St. Olaf today 75-55

#6 Whitworth ;)

Dave with the assist!

#4 Whitman rolls Sul Ross St 97-61

I watched the Blues game for a little bit. It was a ten minute stretch in the first half where the team from TX managed to score 2 points. Whitman really has an embarrassment of riches. I bet they'll look a lot like recent Gonzaga teams where 6-7 different guys are leading the team in scoring on any given night. Butler and Hewitt are probably gonna out touch the other guys most nights but they have a bunch of guys who are capable of going off on any given night.
Catching up on the other boards...

I know that the head coach at Sul Ross wanted to play a national schedule, which is why he scheduled the trip to the northwest.

Hasn't really been an issue for the NWC basketball programs but I'm sure everyone on the d3 island is appreciative of coach Carroll making the trip up!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 09, 2018, 01:06:41 PM
Whitworth beat La Verne by 50 thanks to a 71 pt 2nd half. 115-65. The Leopards are going to finish near the bottom of the SCIAC but all you can do if you are the heavy favorites is win comfortably, get some bench players more minutes than they would otherwise, only turn the ball over 6 times, etc.

Whitworth was much better than D'youville In 2014 when they opened the season with a 54 point win against the team who's mascot I don't know yet. Obviously both teams are very different from 4 years ago but unless D'Youville as a program has gotten significantly better, the Pirates should win comfortably.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 09, 2018, 09:42:32 PM
I haven't seen a single game on the computer yet but I'll open the season with Nebraska Wesleyan.
So good to see more than 3 wins already in the season.
So good to see scoring more than 80-90.

Harkens me back to the days when Whitworth was a big 'ol school we didn't play and Whitman was game but eventually got their feet all twisted around by a continuous trap defense and fast breaks.
Good times!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 14, 2018, 01:41:13 PM
Whitworth beat D'Youville 104-74

Only thing of note was Ben College breaking a school record for 3s in a game. He made 11 and finished with 37 points. Write up didn't say, though the previous record was probably David Riley's. If I remember right he broke at least one 3 point record set by Jon Young. If this board wasn't dead I'd expect someone to come in and correct me...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 14, 2018, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 14, 2018, 01:41:13 PM
Whitworth beat D'Youville 104-74

Only thing of note was Ben College breaking a school record for 3s in a game. He made 11 and finished with 37 points. Write up didn't say, though the previous record was probably David Riley's. If I remember right he broke at least one 3 point record set by Jon Young. If this board wasn't dead I'd expect someone to come in and correct me...

Not dead, just taking a long winter's nap...at least until I get to Vegas in 2 weeks !

Yes it was David Riley's record that was broken.  Not sure why the write-up didn't mention that, but it was mentioned in the Fieldhouse at the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 17, 2018, 09:04:49 PM
Who all's tuning in to watch the #1 team in the country tonight?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 17, 2018, 10:27:46 PM
So, the #1 team has 2 Pre-AAs on  it.
Amazed, I haven't seen one dunk in 15 minutes.

32-32 / 6:30 in half
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 17, 2018, 10:41:26 PM
What's with the 7-11 security camera that's taken the viewer out of the game?
Embarrassing.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on December 17, 2018, 10:46:14 PM
If we are not going to get a camera on the game, let's turn it to face the announcer.  That guy is having the time of his life.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 17, 2018, 10:54:31 PM
ah  :D  ha   :D  ha   :D  ha
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 17, 2018, 11:14:02 PM
10 min left and a 1 point game....

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/0e5f291913819eeefcea5a8a6b388afe/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: WUPHF on December 17, 2018, 11:14:58 PM
I never thought I would turn on a Linfield game, but this has been a great game.  Turn it on people.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 17, 2018, 11:22:44 PM
NWU can't miss from long in the 2nd half.  Cats gone cold.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 17, 2018, 11:28:46 PM
WC...is that Kevin announcing?
Most of the time it doesn't sound like him, then there'll be a streak where it does.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 17, 2018, 11:31:18 PM
Joe Stewart is on the call.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 17, 2018, 11:34:19 PM
Good effort 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 17, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
Live by the 3....
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 18, 2018, 05:19:05 PM
Was at the game... if that is the #1 team in the nation then the Cats aren't that far off talent-wise from being a very solid D3 program.  The game changed late in the 1st half when NWU went from zone to man and from then on out it was hard for the Cats to get good looks.  Our gunner had foul trouble and wasn't a factor in the game - Roggenbuck. But the point guard came to play.  I'm interested to see if the Cats can break through against Whitman and Whitworth this year.  If they can put together two solid halves I'd say that they have a good shot at it.  We need to get our #35 out for football as he is missing his calling playing hoops... guy would be an All American TE, DT, OT versus the first big off the bench in hoops...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: rlgyank on December 18, 2018, 10:03:03 PM
As a Nebraska Wesleyan fan who saw both of their games in Oregon, I would say that both George Fox and Linfield are very solid teams. NWU had to play well to win both of those games. Teams and fans are definitely fired up to play NWU. I know Linfield had a promotion where everyone got in free, and they had a very good crowd for the game and were really in to it. I think it really helped the Linfield team. For NWU's schedule strength, I hope that both George Fox and Linfield continue the hot start to the season that they have had. The way that they played against NWU, I can see that as a pretty good possibility.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on December 19, 2018, 05:44:55 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on December 14, 2018, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 14, 2018, 01:41:13 PM
Whitworth beat D'Youville 104-74

Only thing of note was Ben College breaking a school record for 3s in a game. He made 11 and finished with 37 points. Write up didn't say, though the previous record was probably David Riley's. If I remember right he broke at least one 3 point record set by Jon Young. If this board wasn't dead I'd expect someone to come in and correct me...

Not dead, just taking a long winter's nap...at least until I get to Vegas in 2 weeks !

Yes it was David Riley's record that was broken.  Not sure why the write-up didn't mention that, but it was mentioned in the Fieldhouse at the time.

David still happy to have the record for attempts in a game (19). Gives Ben something to shoot for.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2018, 07:06:35 AM
Quote from: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 18, 2018, 05:19:05 PM
Was at the game... if that is the #1 team in the nation then the Cats aren't that far off talent-wise from being a very solid D3 program.  The game changed late in the 1st half when NWU went from zone to man and from then on out it was hard for the Cats to get good looks.  Our gunner had foul trouble and wasn't a factor in the game - Roggenbuck. But the point guard came to play.  I'm interested to see if the Cats can break through against Whitman and Whitworth this year.  If they can put together two solid halves I'd say that they have a good shot at it.  We need to get our #35 out for football as he is missing his calling playing hoops... guy would be an All American TE, DT, OT versus the first big off the bench in hoops...

NWU did lose a starter two or three games prior.  Incidentally, though, it's Bahe who's been the replacement and he's been the best player on their team since he hit the starting lineup.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: rlgyank on December 19, 2018, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2018, 07:06:35 AM
Quote from: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on December 18, 2018, 05:19:05 PM
Was at the game... if that is the #1 team in the nation then the Cats aren't that far off talent-wise from being a very solid D3 program.  The game changed late in the 1st half when NWU went from zone to man and from then on out it was hard for the Cats to get good looks.  Our gunner had foul trouble and wasn't a factor in the game - Roggenbuck. But the point guard came to play.  I'm interested to see if the Cats can break through against Whitman and Whitworth this year.  If they can put together two solid halves I'd say that they have a good shot at it.  We need to get our #35 out for football as he is missing his calling playing hoops... guy would be an All American TE, DT, OT versus the first big off the bench in hoops...

NWU did lose a starter two or three games prior.  Incidentally, though, it's Bahe who's been the replacement and he's been the best player on their team since he hit the starting lineup.


Bahe also replaced Schimonitz for the first part of the season last year and did a very good job while Schimonitz was out.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 19, 2018, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: rlgyank on December 18, 2018, 10:03:03 PM
As a Nebraska Wesleyan fan who saw both of their games in Oregon, I would say that both George Fox and Linfield are very solid teams. NWU had to play well to win both of those games. Teams and fans are definitely fired up to play NWU. I know Linfield had a promotion where everyone got in free, and they had a very good crowd for the game and were really in to it. I think it really helped the Linfield team. For NWU's schedule strength, I hope that both George Fox and Linfield continue the hot start to the season that they have had. The way that they played against NWU, I can see that as a pretty good possibility.

I think Linfield is a very solid team, though I'm not sure what happened against the solutes. That's a team they should have beat. I'm not at all sold on Fox. Early results say they should finish 3-4 in the NWC but this year that's probably not an impressive feat. It took OT to beat St. Olaf, OT to beat UPS, they have losses to Cal Lu and Johnson and Wales. After the Whits, Linfield is better than they were last year IMO. George Fox probably is too, but everyone else is worse so it's hard to tell. UPS, Pacific, L&C, Willamette all look like below average teams. I guess PLU can't be worse than they were last year but that isn't saying much.

A comfortable win against Linfield on the road with some injuries is a great result though. Is Neb Wes gonna be challenged at all in the IIAC? Or is it coast until the tournament for the Prairie Wolves?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 19, 2018, 05:08:42 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 19, 2018, 03:47:29 PM
A comfortable win against Linfield on the road with some injuries is a great result though. Is Neb Wes gonna be challenged at all in the IIAC? Or is it coast until the tournament for the Prairie Wolves?

It's the ARC now, not the IIAC. The league changed its name to the American Rivers Conference earlier this year. NebWes is the clear favorite, but Loras is awfully good and will give the Prairie Wolves a run for their money. Simpson has looked strong as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 20, 2018, 01:13:48 AM
Health concerns made me just cancel my free rooms at The Bellagio for the 27th and 28th. Damn. Wanted to finally see the tourney.
And root for the 'CATS, of course.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on December 20, 2018, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on December 20, 2018, 01:13:48 AM
Health concerns made me just cancel my free rooms at The Bellagio for the 27th and 28th. Damn. Wanted to finally see the tourney.
And root for the 'CATS, of course.

You could always donate your rooms to me  :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: rlgyank on December 20, 2018, 01:15:44 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 19, 2018, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: rlgyank on December 18, 2018, 10:03:03 PM
As a Nebraska Wesleyan fan who saw both of their games in Oregon, I would say that both George Fox and Linfield are very solid teams. NWU had to play well to win both of those games. Teams and fans are definitely fired up to play NWU. I know Linfield had a promotion where everyone got in free, and they had a very good crowd for the game and were really in to it. I think it really helped the Linfield team. For NWU's schedule strength, I hope that both George Fox and Linfield continue the hot start to the season that they have had. The way that they played against NWU, I can see that as a pretty good possibility.

I think Linfield is a very solid team, though I'm not sure what happened against the solutes. That's a team they should have beat. I'm not at all sold on Fox. Early results say they should finish 3-4 in the NWC but this year that's probably not an impressive feat. It took OT to beat St. Olaf, OT to beat UPS, they have losses to Cal Lu and Johnson and Wales. After the Whits, Linfield is better than they were last year IMO. George Fox probably is too, but everyone else is worse so it's hard to tell. UPS, Pacific, L&C, Willamette all look like below average teams. I guess PLU can't be worse than they were last year but that isn't saying much.

A comfortable win against Linfield on the road with some injuries is a great result though. Is Neb Wes gonna be challenged at all in the IIAC? Or is it coast until the tournament for the Prairie Wolves?

As Mr. Sager said, Loras will be 2 tough games. If NWU plays their best, they should win all of the remaining games, but as everyone knows, teams don't always play their best. There are plenty of teams that are good enough in the ARC that if NWU falters at all, they will get beat.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 20, 2018, 01:30:10 PM
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In an ode to those leaving work, campus early for the holidays - maybe hitting the road in the afternoon instead of evening, Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) wraps up the finale to the first semester with an early show on Thursday. Dave talks with a couple of programs who have captured his attention. He also chats with a conference commissioner who not only has had a direct impact on the evolution of Division IIII basketball, but is also hanging up his commissioner's hat at the end of the academic year.

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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 20, 2018, 02:40:17 PM
Whitworth beat Concordia-Chicago 143-95. The Pirates only made 9 threes on 25 attempts...but got to the FT line 49 times and made 40 of them.

Whitworth has a couple of games against much better competition coming up at the d3hoops.com classic. Thankfully. Then we wait until Jan 8th when round 1 of what will likely be at least a 3 game series against Whitman is played in Spokane.

Whitman beat Wooster and Alma comfortably. Wooster is traditionally a very strong program, though not sure how good they are this year as they dropped a game the next night to Sul Ross State.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 20, 2018, 05:48:45 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 20, 2018, 02:40:17 PM
Whitman beat Wooster and Alma comfortably. Wooster is traditionally a very strong program, though not sure how good they are this year as they dropped a game the next night to Sul Ross State.

According to the Top 25 board, this is the first time in 30 years that Wooster has lost three games in a row.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 21, 2018, 02:17:05 AM
89rat... the thought occurred to me but Bellagio is really tough on things like that.
Then there's that $15 a day valet parking fee and the $30 a day resort fee

Nothing free in LaV anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 28, 2018, 11:26:05 PM
Whitman squeaks by Ill Wes 105-103. I only caught the last couple of minutes, but I'd imagine that the game played out how a lot of games play out when a disciplined team plays the Blues.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 29, 2018, 02:51:27 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on December 28, 2018, 11:26:05 PM
Whitman squeaks by Ill Wes 105-103. I only caught the last couple of minutes, but I'd imagine that the game played out how a lot of games play out when a disciplined team plays the Blues.

I was in and out throughout the game - it was actually quite different from the other Whitman games I've seen this year.  The Blues looked a little rusty, in terms of defense and passing - more mistakes than normal.  It felt more like a shooting contest, with both teams knocking down big shots throughout.  It didn't feel like either team had their best game, but overall it was a great one to watch.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on December 30, 2018, 01:26:27 AM
Looked like a nice win for the 'Cats against Ramapo. Don't know much about them but their impressive record, so there was some trepidation about how it might turn out but Linfield seemed to make shots and plays when it had to and ended up with a comfortable win. Nowhere near saying Linfield will challenge either of the Whits, but hoping they can make it interesting against them - and maybe bring back some South Forty vibes for home games.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 30, 2018, 07:54:46 AM

Ramapo's solid, but not exceptional.  It's a good win.  Without such hot shooting it could've gone the other way.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 30, 2018, 01:03:20 PM
Lester saves the day for Whitworth. Johns Hopkins 3pt shooting almost got them the win. Whitworth got inside and converted, or got to the FT line and converted which made up for their poor outside shooting last night. At least College buried one when it counted at the end. It was a good defensive effort by Hopkins and it was and should continue to be seen as a good win for the Pirates.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 30, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
Whitman did what Whitman does to overmatched opponents and dismantled CLU yesterday. They won by about 50. Forced over 30 turnovers.

Jan 8th...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on December 30, 2018, 11:02:31 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 30, 2018, 07:54:46 AM

Ramapo's solid, but not exceptional.  It's a good win.  Without such hot shooting it could've gone the other way.

The 'Cats will take it for sure. The Whits are the top shelf but I hope the 'Cats can make them uncomfortable this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 31, 2018, 12:10:30 AM
Whitworth held off Emory and Henry 87-80. Whitworth continues their success at the d3hoops.com tourney. I believe the write up said they were 7-1 all time. T-minus 9 days
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 31, 2018, 06:17:53 PM
Whitman non conference recap: 10-1.  Of course would like to be 11-0, but that's why they play the games.

Biggest wins were over Wooster #15 & Illinios Wesleyan.  Wooster was bad.  Definitely not a top 25 team.  Illinois Wesleyan was good-ish.  Somewhere #25-35 in my opinion.  They've lost 5, but 4 of those losses are to Stevens Point #12, Whitman #4, Augustana #3, and Wheaton #30ish.   

WMN's loss was in Double OT at Pomona Pitzer, who is VERY good.  Top 15.  PP's only loss this year was @ Wash U--where they travelled across the country, onto the turf of one of the winningest program ever, and lost by 4.  Walking into the lions den. 

Rat "T-9" I'm assuming is when Whitworth gets ther shot at Whitman.  You're counting down days to the big game and i have no idea...MY how times have changed, huh?!


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 07, 2019, 12:30:28 PM
Excited for this weekend at hoops.  I might be singing a different tune after Saturday night but progress of Linfield's program has been great.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 08, 2019, 07:04:21 PM
T-Minus 4 hours until the 2019 Battle of the Whits Part 1 !
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 09, 2019, 02:03:26 AM
WW has a good squad this year.

Not much on the defensive end tonight from either team.  Let's just call it good offense?

Really good to see Vickers find his rhythm. It seems like it's been a bit of an adjustment for him, which is understandable fitting in with a new team.  But boy, he can sure play.  Nice to see JoJo Wiggins out there as well. He look good. And how about Darne Duckett?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2019, 06:40:49 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on January 08, 2019, 07:04:21 PM
T-Minus 4 hours until the 2019 Battle of the Whits Part 1 !

Why did they decide on that name when "Battle of Whits" is shorter and also a pun?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
I fell asleep in the second half...but the teams looked evenly matched with Whitman having an obvious advantage in terms of depth. I think WW's defense looked bad at times because of Whitman's athleticism. I think Whitman looked bad at times because, well, that's what happens to them when you go for broke on the press and don't get turnovers. I'm not sure the refs helped either, since I didn't catch the last 8-9 minutes, but I could see either team backing off a little to avoid the free throw competition that broke out in the first half. They both are good at putting the basketball into the hoop as well which makes defenses look worse.

Looks like we'll get a repeat of last year in terms of Whitman sweeping the matchup in conference play and the tournament championship game being in Walla Walla. Assuming Linfield doesn't crash the party. Linfield has their chance to make some noise in the NWC this weekend when they get Whitworth at home on Saturday, which will be the Pirates 3rd game in 5 days. I think the Wildcats have the talent to play with Whitman at home (Friday), but I'd be shocked if they won.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 09, 2019, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 09, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
I fell asleep in the second half...

(https://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Charles-Barkley-sleep.gif)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2019, 07:57:48 PM

I talked to Logie today - he said this week is definitely their most difficult stretch of the season.

Overall, I was really impressed with Whitworth.  They overcame the foul issues pretty well and bench played great, I thought.  Whitman wasn't very good in the first half and I don't think that was particularly because of anything Whitworth did.  I also thought there were a couple moments in the second half, where Whitman could've broken things open a bit.  Whitworth showed a lot of discipline and determination to keep it close.

I do think Linfield can spoil the party a bit.  They'll need to beat a Whit or two, but they are capable of getting a Pool C bid and forcing the committee to send the conference tournament championship loser to another bracket first weekend.

It was a bit of a sloppy game, but early January and the first meeting, that makes sense.  The next one should be better.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 10, 2019, 01:46:59 AM
I'll accept a little LINFIELD props.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2019, 08:03:37 PM
Good night for NWC action. Battle in McMinville between the two top teams in the conference tonight. And Whitworth looks to knock off #3 George Fox 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2019, 08:11:30 PM
If Fox takes care of biz at home, a PLU win will slide the Lutes into the 4th, so could shake things up.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 12, 2019, 12:32:52 AM
Whitman went into Wilson Gym on a mission(ary).
They were confident, rebounded offensively, handled the ball well, and played great team defense. And I'm referencing the LINFIELD teams when I was there. The roles have reversed. LINFIELD  looked hapless at times, though game, just like Whitman USED to be.
I suppose there's always tomorrow night.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 12, 2019, 01:27:04 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2019, 08:03:37 PM
Good night for NWC action. Battle in McMinville between the two top teams in the conference tonight. And Whitworth looks to knock off #3 George Fox

Whitman just took it to my 'Cats tonight. Their unrelenting pressure is impressive.  Thought the 'Cats were too passive but give credit where it's due....the Blues are damn good.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on January 12, 2019, 03:07:14 AM
Three observations from Friday night:
1) Linfield is pretty good.
2) Whitman is very, VERY good.
3) In a reference only 'Cats of a certain vintage will understand, Jim D'Aboy would have positively shredded Eric Bridgeland - particularly in Riley Gym.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2019, 09:25:35 AM
Quote from: wildcat11 on January 12, 2019, 01:27:04 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 11, 2019, 08:03:37 PM
Good night for NWC action. Battle in McMinville between the two top teams in the conference tonight. And Whitworth looks to knock off #3 George Fox

Whitman just took it to my 'Cats tonight. Their unrelenting pressure is impressive.  Thought the 'Cats were too passive but give credit where it's due....the Blues are damn good.

It seemed like Linfield wasn't prepared for the intensity to start the game, which is surprising since they should've watched some part of the Whit-Whit game the other night and Whitman looked much the same in the first four minutes.  Linfield fought valiantly, but it's hard to summon that intensity after the game begins.

I thought George Fox was pretty impressive, too.  Whitman is the best team in the league, but there's four teams that are really top notch (and a few others not too far below).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2019, 09:41:16 AM

I'll also be interested to see how Whitworth's legs recover from last night's game.  That's going to be a real factor this year for a lot of teams playing so fast on back to back nights.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 12, 2019, 09:45:29 AM
Whitworth shot the ball well from the field. Had a few guys who didn't shoot well from the FT line. They were inconsistent defensively but overall had an ok game on that end of the court. They just got too sloppy with the ball. The Pirates had more turnovers tonight than they did against Whitman and it really wasn't anything Fox was doing. The Bruins are a good team but it has been something Logie coached teams seem to do, play a little up or down to their competition.

They need to clean it up tonight against Linfield. This isn't new to Whitworth in terms of having the Tues, Fri, Sat games (with a good Whitman team on Tue), but Fox and Linfield haven't been as good as they are this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 12, 2019, 10:58:56 PM
Whitworth just looked really tired, especially in the 2nd half. Christy and Bishop were bad tonight. Whitworth wins 78-75. Linfield continues to play well but if you can't beat Whitworth in these circumstances then you're just not quite there yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 13, 2019, 01:20:41 AM
But you've come a long way, baby.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2019, 08:43:09 AM

I felt like GFU impressed a little more than Linfield this weekend.  Not a huge difference there, but it was surprising to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 13, 2019, 11:28:45 AM
Is that because you knew what Linfield was whereas Fox maybe surprised you more in how they looked against the Whits?

I think Fox and Linfield split their series against each other and mostly beat everyone else in the conference. Each will probably drop a game they shouldn't to a UPS, PLU, etc.

Linfield has no shot of beating the Eastern Washington schools on the road as it is unlikely their bus will get them there without breaking down.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2019, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2019, 11:28:45 AM
Is that because you knew what Linfield was whereas Fox maybe surprised you more in how they looked against the Whits?

I think Fox and Linfield split their series against each other and mostly beat everyone else in the conference. Each will probably drop a game they shouldn't to a UPS, PLU, etc.

Linfield has no shot of beating the Eastern Washington schools on the road as it is unlikely their bus will get them there without breaking down.

It was more that I had them 3-4 and now think maybe the order should be switched.  Linfield had a better resume in the preseason and I hadn't had a chance to see GFU play against a really good opponent.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 14, 2019, 12:49:00 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2019, 11:28:45 AM
Linfield has no shot of beating the Eastern Washington schools on the road as it is unlikely their bus will get them there without breaking down.

You know, I'm not gonna fully disagree with you on this point but it's awesome to see Linfield continue to be able to even be talked about on this board as a team to contend with.  Coach Rose has done such a great job and I fully believe that program will keep improving as he's there.  Go 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2019, 04:51:29 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2019, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on January 13, 2019, 11:28:45 AM
Is that because you knew what Linfield was whereas Fox maybe surprised you more in how they looked against the Whits?

I think Fox and Linfield split their series against each other and mostly beat everyone else in the conference. Each will probably drop a game they shouldn't to a UPS, PLU, etc.

Linfield has no shot of beating the Eastern Washington schools on the road as it is unlikely their bus will get them there without breaking down.

It was more that I had them 3-4 and now think maybe the order should be switched.  Linfield had a better resume in the preseason and I hadn't had a chance to see GFU play against a really good opponent.

You are fired ... you used "preseason" in a sentence? Out with you!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2019, 06:39:33 AM

I thought I was going to have to come on and apologize for my comments from before, with Linfield blistering GFU in the first half.  George Fox did well to get it back to ten late, but couldn't hang on.  I'm still going to call them pretty even.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 16, 2019, 09:56:31 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2019, 06:39:33 AM
I'm still going to call them pretty even.

I'll take a double digit win on the road. Good game 'Cats!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 16, 2019, 02:42:57 PM
Huzzah!
After a busy week too.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 19, 2019, 12:35:37 AM
Watching the battle of the Whits on SWX spoiled me. Video quality on the regular feed is a real downgrade. Looks like a big gap between 1 to 4 and the rest of the league.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 20, 2019, 12:56:43 AM
Fox loses their fourth straight. Lost to Willamette tonight...UPS and PLU stay right behind them even after both teams lost both games in eastern WA this weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 25, 2019, 10:23:25 AM
Whitman at Willamette
Whitworth at Pacific
George Fox at UPS
LC at Linfield

PLU is off tonight

Biggest game tonight is Fox at UPS. The Bruins are on a 4 game skid and another loss tonight would put them tied for that last conference tourney spot with the Loggers. UPS has probably been playing a little better basketball as of late, but the last game went to OT in OR. Should be another good game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 26, 2019, 01:47:49 PM
Another one possession, OT victory for Fox over UPS. Linfield loses to L&C. The Whits win easily. Even though Linfield and Fox have dropped games to inferior teams, they still have a nice cushion over the Tacoma schools. Everyone is going to lose to Whitworth and Whitman again, UPS has now lost twice to Fox, I don't think anyone is catching the Wildcats or Bruins. It's really just a matter of who gets to go to Spokane and who has to go to Walla Walla for the first round of the conference tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 26, 2019, 03:11:16 PM
QuoteLinfield loses to L&C.

Speechless
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 26, 2019, 10:48:27 PM
Whitworth is going to lose to Willamette. It took a 60% from 3 effort from the Bearcats, but some of that was pretty lazy defense by the Pirates. Luckily it really isn't going to matter other than Whitworth falling maybe 5 spots or so in the national rankings. They're still gonna be a 2 seed for the conference tourney and even if they end up with 3 losses to Whitman, a likely pool C team.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 26, 2019, 11:02:22 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 26, 2019, 11:03:10 PM
...

Aaaaaahhhh...Hahahahhaahhaha!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on January 27, 2019, 12:35:44 AM
Holy crap that was fun!

;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 28, 2019, 02:41:40 AM
Whitworth loses to Willamette.

Speechless
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CMSfan on January 28, 2019, 02:59:53 AM
Starting to look like Whitworth is overrated again this year.. I'm hoping CMS finds a way to win the SCIAC tournament and gets another crack at them, preferably not in Walla Walla though...Whitman looks awfully good.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 28, 2019, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on January 27, 2019, 12:35:44 AM
Holy crap that was fun!

;D

Good on the Bearcats.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 28, 2019, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: CMSfan on January 28, 2019, 02:59:53 AM
Starting to look like Whitworth is overrated again this year.. I'm hoping CMS finds a way to win the SCIAC tournament and gets another crack at them, preferably not in Walla Walla though...Whitman looks awfully good.

I highly suspect the committee will ship the SCIAC team elsewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on January 30, 2019, 01:29:31 AM
Fun game tonight. Whitworth shot well enough in the second half to make it interesting, but the outcome was never really in doubt. What is this? 9 of the last 10 Whitman has won vs Whitworth?It's getting hard to keep track.

Seems like Whitworth is going to need to win the conference tourney to make it to the tournament this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2019, 01:44:52 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=m5lxl/o3h5z2xs7txn530n.jpg)

The Hoopsville Marathon Show ... is tomorrow!

Tune in starting at 12:00 p.m. ET as we talk to guests from around the country about nothing but #d3hoops.

It is all about celebrating the season, student-athletes, coaches, and an exciting season.

For more information, click here: http://bit.ly/2HGx0N3

We will share more about the show a little later.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 02, 2019, 11:43:40 PM
Gutsy WW win tonight over a formidable opponent
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 03, 2019, 12:51:45 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 02, 2019, 11:43:40 PM
Gutsy WW win tonight over a formidable opponent

Yes. All those folks doubting Whitworth's resume will be silenced by this statement win.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 03, 2019, 01:08:33 AM
(https://memesbams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/sheldon-sarcasm-meme.jpg)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2019, 01:44:01 PM
Back from vacation. Looks like turnovers killed Whitworth against Whitman, they shot well enough otherwise to stay in the game. The Pirates were without Lester and shot 15% from 3 last night against the Pioneers and still won. They can't afford to drop more games to NWC opponents but they should still be a Pool C team even without winning the conference tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 03, 2019, 03:50:28 PM
Whitworth hasn't had a good win all season. Unless they win the conference tournament, they don't have much of a case for a pool c bid in my opinion.

Why do they continue to get this "pass" into the tourney, and a top 10 ranking? They haven't won a NCAA tournament game in 3 years.  They are 1-7 against Whitman. Outside of that one win, when is the last time they've beaten a top 25 team? 





Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 03, 2019, 04:05:06 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on February 03, 2019, 03:50:28 PM
Whitworth hasn't had a good win all season. Unless they win the conference tournament, they don't have much of a case for a pool c bid in my opinion.

Why do they continue to get this "pass" into the tourney, and a top 10 ranking? They haven't won a NCAA tournament game in 3 years.  They are 1-7 against Whitman. Outside of that one win, when is the last time they've beaten a top 25 team?

A) Past seasons are irrelevant to Pool C.
B) What Whitworth did against Whitman in seasons other than the current one is irrelevant to Pool C.
C) The d3hoops.com top 25 is irrelevant to Pool C.

These are the criteria that matter to Pool C (from page 17 of the 2018-19 Pre-Championship Manual):

The primary criteria emphasize competition leading up to NCAA championships; all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed
in priority order).
● Won-lost percentage against Division III opponents;
● Division III head-to-head competition;
● Results versus common Division III opponents;
● Results versus ranked Division III teams as established by the final ranking and the ranking preceding the final ranking.
Conference postseason contests are included.
● Division III strength of schedule;
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
● Nullification (Bylaw 31.02.4).
Note: Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth years shall count in the
primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selections

 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 03, 2019, 05:02:10 PM
Quoteblackhawks4

(https://media.giphy.com/media/L8XuphFGqlSfe/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 03, 2019, 08:27:27 PM
Fully understand the criteria. The question still stands, what has WW done to deserve a pool C bid?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2019, 01:12:44 AM
According to fantastic50 over on the Pool C board, not enough. He has Whitworth listed at the top of the "bubble-out" category.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 04, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
WW actually beat Willamette this time? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 04:20:29 PM
Here are the first rankings for the men this season: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 06, 2019, 04:38:16 PM
Doesn't look great at first glance for Whitworth but if they can right the ship, there will be a number of teams ahead of them who will come off the board quickly.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 09, 2019, 12:57:29 AM
So...the 'rats make three great shots to cut the lead to one against LINFIELD after trailing the second half.
LINFIELD uses the 2 left feet play to cough up the ball and WW goes up by 1 with 13 seconds.
With the last possession LINFIELD does zero.

To the home team go the spoils.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2019, 09:34:59 AM

Whitworth all but saved their Pool C chances last night with that full court drive from Hernandez.  They really couldn't have afforded to lose that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 09, 2019, 11:43:22 PM
And again tonight...

Linfield plays Whitman tough again. Awful last possession by the Wildcats, Hart just wasn't thinking.

It looks bad for Fox going to 6-8 while UPS stays ahead of them at 7-7...until you realize that the Loggers last two games are Whitman and Whitworth. As bad as Whitworth has looked the last 2-3 weeks, I think you still assume UPS finishes 7-9. Fox can win their next two games against Linfield and Willamette but they only need 1 if UPS does in fact drop their last two games. Fox swept UPS in conference play this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 10, 2019, 12:20:21 AM
Anyone know why Roggenbuck didn't play for Linfield tonight at Whitman? I wasn't able to start following the game until the last few minutes and there was no mention of the reason for his absence on the part of the broadcast I heard, and no mention made in the recap posted on Linfield's website. That's a pretty key piece to have missing for a game of that nature.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 03:28:02 PM
The second week Regional Rankings have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 16, 2019, 12:08:00 AM
 Excited to watch Whitworth and PLU slug it out tonight. Likely going to be a real barnburner
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2019, 12:54:37 AM
You should have tuned in to the Whitman game instead, it's the only game that's close in Tacoma right now...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 16, 2019, 10:05:43 PM
Thanks for the tip, 509, going to be able to see the 2nd half
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 16, 2019, 11:09:43 PM
Whitman goes undefeated in NWC regular season play again.

Was going to tune in for the end of Whitworth-UPS, but wasn't really close...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 17, 2019, 12:00:17 AM
Another regular season in the books.

This is always a fun time to remind everyone, remember when years and years ago, I said that one day Whitman would be NWC champs and WW was on the decline.

And remember when I said Bridgeland was the best coach in the country at this level? And remember when everybody laughed at me?

It's been a fun ride fellas
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2019, 12:38:40 AM
Whitworth is very likely to miss the national tournament for the first time in 13 years (give or take). Whitworth being on the decline is laughable though. Tell the Linfield guys their football team is on the decline because they missed the playoffs... Wake me up in 2030 when Whitman has won 20 some odd conference championships and tournaments. Then I'll be impressed.

Unfortunately for the board, when Bridgleand leaves Walla Walla, so too will blackhawks be leaving us. The other drive by poster will too but probably for different reasons. I will miss the banter. I feel like the Linfield guys do in the football board...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 17, 2019, 08:25:31 PM
Predictions

1st team
Austin Butler - POTY
Joey Hewitt
Jack Stewart
Kyle Roach
Ben College
Roggenbuck

Early 2020 NWC Prediction. Darne Duckett is Conference MVP. Linfield finishes in 2nd place behind WMN
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 19, 2019, 04:23:21 PM
... but beats the blue missionaries once - and then loses a game in McMinnville they should have not.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:42:44 PM
The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 21, 2019, 11:33:00 PM
Next years' runner up Wildcats getting monkey stomped tonight in Spokane
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2019, 09:58:31 AM

I'm not sure I've seen either Whitworth or Whitman play much better than they did last night.  Lets hope that carries over to the championship game.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2019, 04:33:39 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2019, 09:58:31 AM

I'm not sure I've seen either Whitworth or Whitman play much better than they did last night.  Lets hope that carries over to the championship game.

UPS is a great matchup for Whitman. They play right into the Blues hands with significantly less talent. Whitworth probably had their best game of the season, hopefully that carries over to saturday night...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2019, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 22, 2019, 04:33:39 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2019, 09:58:31 AM

I'm not sure I've seen either Whitworth or Whitman play much better than they did last night.  Lets hope that carries over to the championship game.

UPS is a great matchup for Whitman. They play right into the Blues hands with significantly less talent. Whitworth probably had their best game of the season, hopefully that carries over to saturday night...

Whitman still shot, what? 60% from the floor?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 23, 2019, 10:15:39 AM
58% but they shot 56% the first time they played UPS with a much worse % from 3. They beat UPS by an average of 30 pts in their 3 matchups.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 23, 2019, 11:25:41 PM
Nothing better than a Saturday night wind down watching Battle of the Whits on my NWC Apple TV App! Great game so far. Kyle Roach is gunning for 50 tonight, 28 at half and currently 34. His shot is falling in the first half and he is really attacking the basket well. A 10 point halftime lead for the Pirates vanished in a blink of an eye with multiple pressure induced TO for WW, as Whitman is known to do. It will be a great finish, and Whitworth seniors are more than likely battling for a chance to extend their careers.

Also, BluesBrothers, I'm sure you are happy that Butler finally got rewarded for his amazing all around game and being selected as the NWC POY! Very well deserving and congrats to him.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 24, 2019, 12:06:54 AM
I found it very entertaining that Tim Howell was grabbed by a couple Blues players from the stands and proceeded to celebrated on the court with them. The best part was that Howell was towards the front of the post game hand shake and was saying "Good Game" to all of the Whitworth players and coaches! Not to mention sneaking into the team pic with the trophy!

The announcer sounded as if he was unaware that Whitworth getting a Pool C bid at this point would be very unlikely. "Tune in on Monday to the NCAA D3 selection show to find out if Whitman is hosting and where they will send Whitworth." I wonder if the Pirates community knows more about their situation than the Blues announcer?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 24, 2019, 02:47:39 AM
Fun game at Sherwood tonight. Whitman's recent dominance over the Pirates continues, despite a spectacular effort from Roach in the first half. Whitman made some good adjustments at the half, which allowed the talent difference between the Blues and Pirates to dictate the outcome.

Holy moly, Andrew Vickers! The second half felt like a passing of the baton, with Vickers making play after play and emerging as perhaps the Blues best offensive weapon. I'll disagree with blackhawks and say that I think Vickers is the early favorite for 2020 NWC MVP.

Butler with another stellar all-around performance. So cool that he got POTY despite less gaudy scoring numbers. Hopefully that helps his case for postseason national recognition.

I'd love to see the Blues host a pod in the first round, but I'm guessing that won't happen unless the committee overlooks Whitworth's mediocre resume and gifts them a birth in the national tournament. The Pirates are probably better than some other pool C teams, but those losses to Willamette and UPS and the lack of quality wins make them a longshot in my mind.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2019, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on February 24, 2019, 02:47:39 AMI'd love to see the Blues host a pod in the first round, but I'm guessing that won't happen unless the committee overlooks Whitworth's mediocre resume and gifts them a birth in the national tournament.

The committee won't "overlook Whitworth's mediocre résumé", because that résumé (i.e., the measurements of the Pirates according to the primary criteria used by D3 men's basketball, such as winning percentage, SOS, results vs. regionally ranked teams, etc.) is the only thing that matters to the committee. Those specific criteria will be the only determinant used to decided whether or not Whitworth gets a berth (unless it comes down to secondary criteria).

Quote from: BluesBrother on February 24, 2019, 02:47:39 AMThe Pirates are probably better than some other pool C teams, but those losses to Willamette and UPS and the lack of quality wins make them a longshot in my mind.

According to the posters on this site who crunch the numbers every year at this time, the Pirates are indeed a longshot.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 24, 2019, 10:36:12 AM
There are 3 Pool C projections out there.  2 of us have Whitworth out, 1 has Whitworth in...

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg1923362#msg1923362

Whitworth is very competitive for the very final spot (#20) - they had a big bump in SOS after another game vs Whitworth.  It could go either way, but I think they will get beat out for that final pick.  Just one win vs RRO seems to be the real killer.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2019, 02:09:09 PM
Vickers was the guy that seemed to spark the run early in the second half that got Whitman the lead. Whitworth played a good game. Roach and Lester did what they could. Just not athletic enough...losing Roach is rough but a lot of those points will just go the College. Not sure if Lester will come back but Hernandez is more than capable of replacing him. Losing Bishop and Crosno will be addition by subtraction IMO. Logie still does a good job of X's and O's most of the time but has to up the recruiting a level or two to get back to the Hayford days.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 24, 2019, 04:18:51 PM
Roach really had a nice career.  He's a "Big game player."

Vickers--Wow.  If he continues to play with that offensive aggressiveness, this Blues team might have a real shot at a national championship.  To me, he is the key.  He is that athletic scorer that can get his own shot anytime.  Blues don't need 20-30 pts per game from him, they have so many other weapons, but they do need him to play with the same mindset.

My guess is that this pod will end up in Walla Walla.  They'll likely have to fly 3 teams somewhere.  I also presume that the committee will have the Blues and Pitzer in the same pod, angling for a 2nd round match-up.  If what what we are consistently told is actually true (that the selections are only based on this year, and that the national poll carries no weight), I think WW is out.  We shall see.  It probably would have benefited the Blues if WW beat them last night--would have higher likelihood of putting the pod in Walla Walla.



Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 25, 2019, 02:06:01 AM
TitanQ..... 
QuoteSOS after another game vs Whitworth

Did you not mean  " SOS after another game vs Whitman?"
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 25, 2019, 12:34:32 PM
Looks like Whitworth won't make the cut. Decent pod for Whitman, though anything can happen in the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 25, 2019, 12:59:53 PM
Murderers row for Whitman.  Don't know Texas Lutheran, but as long as they survive, they have Pitzer waiting for them, and then probably Williams. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.

The NWU-Oshkosh pod is the toughest.  I'd put St. John's as the 5th best team in the tournament, so it's a tough one for sure.  NCC and Loras would be right up there as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2019, 03:17:55 PM
I second Ryan's thoughts. The upper-right-hand section is the toughest one. It's got #1, #4, #9, #10, #18, and #21 from the latest d3hoops.com poll.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.

The NWU-Oshkosh pod is the toughest.  I'd put St. John's as the 5th best team in the tournament, so it's a tough one for sure.  NCC and Loras would be right up there as well.

Yeah that certainly looks to be the most difficult pod, but doesn't necessarily mean NWU would have the toughest path to the title game (though it appears they do by a slim margin). You can't actually play St. John's and Loras and NCC and Oshkosh if you are the Praire Wolves, they all have to knock each other out before they get to the final 8. So having all of those teams in one corner of the bracket doesn't automatically mean you have the toughest path. Of course, with all those teams you are much less likely to get an "easy" late round game because an early round upset will not have the same effect as it would in the bottom left or bottom right brackets. If we got chalk, starting in the second round...

NWU would play d3hoops.com #13, #17, #4, #3

Whitman would get #11, #19, #9, #5

Not a huge difference in terms of projected difficulty, assuming you generally agree with the d3hoops.com poll. Really St. John's probably has the toughest draw in the whole tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 04:17:27 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.

The NWU-Oshkosh pod is the toughest.  I'd put St. John's as the 5th best team in the tournament, so it's a tough one for sure.  NCC and Loras would be right up there as well.

Yeah that certainly looks to be the most difficult pod, but doesn't necessarily mean NWU would have the toughest path to the title game (though it appears they do by a slim margin). You can't actually play St. John's and Loras and NCC and Oshkosh if you are the Praire Wolves, they all have to knock each other out before they get to the final 8. So having all of those teams in one corner of the bracket doesn't automatically mean you have the toughest path. Of course, with all those teams you are much less likely to get an "easy" late round game because an early round upset will not have the same effect as it would in the bottom left or bottom right brackets. If we got chalk, starting in the second round...

NWU would play d3hoops.com #13, #17, #4, #3

Whitman would get #11, #19, #9, #5

Not a huge difference in terms of projected difficulty, assuming you generally agree with the d3hoops.com poll. Really St. John's probably has the toughest draw in the whole tournament.

Wouldn't it be Oshkosh, since St John's gets to play the first weekend at home?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AO on February 25, 2019, 04:28:03 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 04:17:27 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.

The NWU-Oshkosh pod is the toughest.  I'd put St. John's as the 5th best team in the tournament, so it's a tough one for sure.  NCC and Loras would be right up there as well.

Yeah that certainly looks to be the most difficult pod, but doesn't necessarily mean NWU would have the toughest path to the title game (though it appears they do by a slim margin). You can't actually play St. John's and Loras and NCC and Oshkosh if you are the Praire Wolves, they all have to knock each other out before they get to the final 8. So having all of those teams in one corner of the bracket doesn't automatically mean you have the toughest path. Of course, with all those teams you are much less likely to get an "easy" late round game because an early round upset will not have the same effect as it would in the bottom left or bottom right brackets. If we got chalk, starting in the second round...

NWU would play d3hoops.com #13, #17, #4, #3

Whitman would get #11, #19, #9, #5

Not a huge difference in terms of projected difficulty, assuming you generally agree with the d3hoops.com poll. Really St. John's probably has the toughest draw in the whole tournament.

Wouldn't it be Oshkosh, since St John's gets to play the first weekend at home?
Wouldn't it be Northwestern since we would have to play against St. John's and Oshkosh?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: AO on February 25, 2019, 04:28:03 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 04:17:27 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.

The NWU-Oshkosh pod is the toughest.  I'd put St. John's as the 5th best team in the tournament, so it's a tough one for sure.  NCC and Loras would be right up there as well.

Yeah that certainly looks to be the most difficult pod, but doesn't necessarily mean NWU would have the toughest path to the title game (though it appears they do by a slim margin). You can't actually play St. John's and Loras and NCC and Oshkosh if you are the Praire Wolves, they all have to knock each other out before they get to the final 8. So having all of those teams in one corner of the bracket doesn't automatically mean you have the toughest path. Of course, with all those teams you are much less likely to get an "easy" late round game because an early round upset will not have the same effect as it would in the bottom left or bottom right brackets. If we got chalk, starting in the second round...

NWU would play d3hoops.com #13, #17, #4, #3

Whitman would get #11, #19, #9, #5

Not a huge difference in terms of projected difficulty, assuming you generally agree with the d3hoops.com poll. Really St. John's probably has the toughest draw in the whole tournament.

Wouldn't it be Oshkosh, since St John's gets to play the first weekend at home?
Wouldn't it be Northwestern since we would have to play against St. John's and Oshkosh?
Touche.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 05:46:52 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 04:17:27 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.

The NWU-Oshkosh pod is the toughest.  I'd put St. John's as the 5th best team in the tournament, so it's a tough one for sure.  NCC and Loras would be right up there as well.

Yeah that certainly looks to be the most difficult pod, but doesn't necessarily mean NWU would have the toughest path to the title game (though it appears they do by a slim margin). You can't actually play St. John's and Loras and NCC and Oshkosh if you are the Praire Wolves, they all have to knock each other out before they get to the final 8. So having all of those teams in one corner of the bracket doesn't automatically mean you have the toughest path. Of course, with all those teams you are much less likely to get an "easy" late round game because an early round upset will not have the same effect as it would in the bottom left or bottom right brackets. If we got chalk, starting in the second round...

NWU would play d3hoops.com #13, #17, #4, #3

Whitman would get #11, #19, #9, #5

Not a huge difference in terms of projected difficulty, assuming you generally agree with the d3hoops.com poll. Really St. John's probably has the toughest draw in the whole tournament.

Wouldn't it be Oshkosh, since St John's gets to play the first weekend at home?

You could make that argument. I was basing it purely on lowest combined d3hoops.com ranking #'s. Since St. John's is ranked below Oshkosh, they would play a group of teams with a higher collective ranking than Oshkosh would to win the national championship (assuming chalk). The Johnnies would have to play #4, #15, #1, #3, #2. Doesn't matter though.

And apologies for not including Northwestern. I was only looking at teams that are likely to make it past the first night...  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2019, 12:01:39 AM
The UMAC lasted longer than both Whitworth and St. John's in last year's bracket.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 26, 2019, 12:54:47 AM
But we never use last year's criteria, right?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2019, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2019, 12:01:39 AM
The UMAC lasted longer than both Whitworth and St. John's in last year's bracket.

Which is why I picked Bethany Lutheran to make it to the second weekend this year...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2019, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 26, 2019, 12:54:47 AM
But we never use last year's criteria, right?

Not sure of your need to troll here.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2019, 02:58:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2019, 09:50:16 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 26, 2019, 12:54:47 AM
But we never use last year's criteria, right?

Not sure of your need to troll here.

I laughed...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2019, 11:12:51 PM
https://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2019/2/19/mens-basketball-send-austin-butler-to-the-division-i-final-four-vote-now.aspx (https://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2019/2/19/mens-basketball-send-austin-butler-to-the-division-i-final-four-vote-now.aspx)

Everyone vote for Austin Butler! Some impressive dunks in his Blues career, what an athlete.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AO on March 02, 2019, 10:31:27 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 05:46:52 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 04:17:27 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 25, 2019, 02:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM

NCAA spent an extra flight to let Whitman host this weekend.  That's pretty cool.

Whitman was definitely deserving so it's nice the NCAA did that

Looks like they will have to go through at least one NESCAC team along the way. They could in theory get Williams and Hamilton and Amherst. I want to see them against at least one team from that conference.

I haven't read the d3 guru's takes but on the surface this bracket looks pretty balanced. Right? Augustana looks like it probably has the easiest path to the final four. Whitman maybe the toughest? But overall it looks fairly well put together. NWU possibly having St. Thomas in the 2nd round appears to be the most "unfair" matchup if you were to have an unlimited travel budget.

The NWU-Oshkosh pod is the toughest.  I'd put St. John's as the 5th best team in the tournament, so it's a tough one for sure.  NCC and Loras would be right up there as well.

Yeah that certainly looks to be the most difficult pod, but doesn't necessarily mean NWU would have the toughest path to the title game (though it appears they do by a slim margin). You can't actually play St. John's and Loras and NCC and Oshkosh if you are the Praire Wolves, they all have to knock each other out before they get to the final 8. So having all of those teams in one corner of the bracket doesn't automatically mean you have the toughest path. Of course, with all those teams you are much less likely to get an "easy" late round game because an early round upset will not have the same effect as it would in the bottom left or bottom right brackets. If we got chalk, starting in the second round...

NWU would play d3hoops.com #13, #17, #4, #3

Whitman would get #11, #19, #9, #5

Not a huge difference in terms of projected difficulty, assuming you generally agree with the d3hoops.com poll. Really St. John's probably has the toughest draw in the whole tournament.

Wouldn't it be Oshkosh, since St John's gets to play the first weekend at home?

You could make that argument. I was basing it purely on lowest combined d3hoops.com ranking #'s. Since St. John's is ranked below Oshkosh, they would play a group of teams with a higher collective ranking than Oshkosh would to win the national championship (assuming chalk). The Johnnies would have to play #4, #15, #1, #3, #2. Doesn't matter though.

And apologies for not including Northwestern. I was only looking at teams that are likely to make it past the first night...  ;)
Apology accepted!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2019, 01:05:49 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on February 26, 2019, 12:54:47 AM
But we never use last year's criteria, right?

Sometimes history repeats itself.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2019, 11:18:36 AM
Williams could cause Whitman a lot of problems from a size/length standpoint. Though they might be the first team to actually do that. Whether it is lack of talent from the opponents' bigs or Whitman's halfcourt pressure that makes it tough to get the ball into the low post, the Blues rarely have a team beat them up inside. Whitman will shoot a lot better from 3 than both of William's previous opponents. And they will be the most athletic and deepest team Williams has played all year. As always with Whitman, if Williams can avoid turning the ball over they will make it a game. If the pressure bothers them or if Whitman's athleticism gets Haskett or Casey in fould trouble it could be a long night for the Ephs.

I wasn't super impressed with Hamilton in the first two rounds. If CNU continues to shoot from outside well, they should be waiting for the winner of Whitman v Williams (my money is on Whitman). I think the only team that beats Whitman in this tournament is one who has a Swarthmore like effort from the field (72.5% for the game and 14-17 from 3). Well, maybe not quite that good, but they will have to shoot a high percentage to make up for the fact that Whitman will likely have more possessions.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2019, 06:22:06 PM

All year, my biggest concern has been Williams' ball-handling.  They really only have one PG - Kyle Scadlock, one of the post players, is the secondary ball-handler and he's fine, but not a guard.  They had real trouble against the Moravian press for a while, ultimately prevailing because of superior talent.  I'm just not sure how well they'll handle what Whitman does, although I'm sure they'll spend all week working on it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 05, 2019, 12:49:29 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2019, 06:22:06 PM

All year, my biggest concern has been Williams' ball-handling....They had real trouble against the Moravian press for a while, ultimately prevailing because of superior talent.

Yeah, not an area you want to have question marks about when playing against this Whitman team. And you can bet Whitman will throw a different look at Williams. They usually have enough wrinkles in their press to make it hard to prepare for. They'll mix it up from one night to another or in this case from one weekend to another.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2019, 08:51:17 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 05, 2019, 12:49:29 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2019, 06:22:06 PM

All year, my biggest concern has been Williams' ball-handling....They had real trouble against the Moravian press for a while, ultimately prevailing because of superior talent.

Yeah, not an area you want to have question marks about when playing against this Whitman team. And you can bet Whitman will throw a different look at Williams. They usually have enough wrinkles in their press to make it hard to prepare for. They'll mix it up from one night to another or in this case from one weekend to another.

Williams is a very good team, especially if they get can into half court sets and pound the ball inside, but this is about the worst possible matchup for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on March 07, 2019, 01:39:28 PM
The Blues arrived in Syracuse early this morning and by all accounts seems to be enjoying the journey (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czk9CWk6JzM&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czk9CWk6JzM&feature=youtu.be)).

Here's a nice piece on the seniors: http://kogakoalition.org/ben/2019/03/07/blues-savoring-every-moment-as-end-of-road-looms/ (http://kogakoalition.org/ben/2019/03/07/blues-savoring-every-moment-as-end-of-road-looms/)

Tomorrow should be fun!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on March 08, 2019, 07:35:29 PM
Ugh. Whitman didn't play a great game and that's a shame. Too many easy missed baskets. Ugh.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 08, 2019, 07:37:30 PM
Whitman bows out in the sweet 16. Unlike blackhawks I won't admonish any NWC team who has to travel across the country and play a team playing on a home court or in this case a very familiar one. Congrats on the great season, even if like Whitworth's, it was a disappointing one
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2019, 10:53:25 PM

Whitman played poorly, but they battled back.  The inability to execute a decent halfcourt offense in the final minute did them in.  I suspect a lot of the credit goes to Williams' excellent defense - one of the best in the country this year, by just about any measure.  Great season - and 112 wins by one class is going to be pretty tough for anyone to beat.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 09, 2019, 12:48:59 AM
I don't understand these NWC one loss teams flaming out consistently.
Sure, there's the flying way east, but, come on.
I'll never know how good you really are.
Now, the GeoFo women.....
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2019, 01:25:06 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 09, 2019, 12:48:59 AM
I don't understand these NWC one loss teams flaming out consistently.
Sure, there's the flying way east, but, come on.
I'll never know how good you really are.
Now, the GeoFo women.....

One loss Nebraska Wesleyan lost ...
Two loss Augustana lost ...

It isn't about NWC ... it's about the fact there are a lot of very good teams in Division III and in the national tournament anything is going to be possible. Whitman got to the second weekend getting past a very good Pomona Pitzer squad. They could have beaten Williams, but they didn't have a great game. Shots didn't fall tonight. I suspect they would win more than they would lose to Williams - just not tonight.

I wouldn't be that critical. Whitman got all the way to the title game a few years ago. Sometimes it comes together and sometimes that one game just pops up at the wrong time.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 09, 2019, 02:53:20 AM
I know.  I know.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2019, 11:37:55 AM
McHughs post is dead on.

IMO Whitman ran into the National Champ last night. I'll be surprised if Williams doesn't win it.
Their length was the difference. Period, end of story. The shots that are normally easy shots weren't easy shots. They didn't have had any ball handlers but they could see over top of the pressure. Whitman didn't lose that game or "not play well" or "not execute in the half court" they got beat by an elite team. But they also had the ball down 1 with a minute left and just came up short. Somebody's gotta lose.

Length reminded me of Nebraska Wesleyan last year.

The site/location/travel stuff plays a factor, but nothing's changed about this ever. Fair or not—We all knew this before the season ever started so to bring it up now is pointless. Whitman controlled every variable they could during the season. They came into the ncaa tourney the number one seed, and the pod just worked out how it did.

I thought this year was the year! Graduating an incredible senior class, but will be back with studs like Darne Duckett and Andrew Vickers

Signing off...








Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2019, 01:06:02 PM

The one downside to Whitman's style is that you're rarely going to blow out teams at this level.  It's great for overwhelming lesser foes, but you can be sure, when you get to the second weekend of the tournament (or, for sure, the championship weekend), you'll have opponents who can withstand the pressure and keep calm.  Williams had 29 turnovers.  They also had size and patience.  I'm not sure Williams is the better team, but they did a better job adjusting and combating the strengths of their opponent last night.

As is often said, Whitman "does what we do," which is really good.  But when they needed to run some efficient half-court sets at the end of the game, it didn't work out too well.

That shouldn't be seen as a knock either - one or two extra turnovers from Williams and the whole narrative is flipped.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AO on March 09, 2019, 02:04:47 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2019, 01:06:02 PM

The one downside to Whitman's style is that you're rarely going to blow out teams at this level.  It's great for overwhelming lesser foes, but you can be sure, when you get to the second weekend of the tournament (or, for sure, the championship weekend), you'll have opponents who can withstand the pressure and keep calm.  Williams had 29 turnovers.  They also had size and patience.  I'm not sure Williams is the better team, but they did a better job adjusting and combating the strengths of their opponent last night.

As is often said, Whitman "does what we do," which is really good.  But when they needed to run some efficient half-court sets at the end of the game, it didn't work out too well.

That shouldn't be seen as a knock either - one or two extra turnovers from Williams and the whole narrative is flipped.
I'm sure they remained calm but 29 turnovers means they didn't handle the pressure well.  A terrible shooting night for Whitman and Williams converted when they didn't turn it over.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2019, 02:40:36 PM
"The one downside to Whitman's style" alludes to "if they played differently" which is complete bs.

You really want to see whitman slow it down against the 6'8" starting 5 of Williams?!

Darne Duckett killed Williams off the dribble with his mid range game. Do you want to see him running flex? You want to see Austin Butler Down screen to start a little high/low action? Makes no sense.

Whitman does what they do. They forced 29 turnovers!

How about they shoot 15/22 instead off 11/22 from the stripe? Game over
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2019, 02:42:51 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2019, 01:06:02 PM

The one downside to Whitman's style is that you're rarely going to blow out teams at this level.  It's great for overwhelming lesser foes, but you can be sure, when you get to the second weekend of the tournament (or, for sure, the championship weekend), you'll have opponents who can withstand the pressure and keep calm.  Williams had 29 turnovers.  They also had size and patience.  I'm not sure Williams is the better team, but they did a better job adjusting and combating the strengths of their opponent last night.

As is often said, Whitman "does what we do," which is really good.  But when they needed to run some efficient half-court sets at the end of the game, it didn't work out too well.

That shouldn't be seen as a knock either - one or two extra turnovers from Williams and the whole narrative is flipped.

... or one or two converted layups in transition in the first fifteen minutes of the game, and the whole narrative is flipped. The Blues amassed a large number of steals in the opening phase of the game that they couldn't turn into points once they got to the rim on the fast break.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 09, 2019, 08:49:52 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2019, 11:37:55 AMIMO Whitman ran into the National Champ last night. I'll be surprised if Williams doesn't win it.

Well this opinion didn't age well...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2019, 10:09:35 PM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on March 09, 2019, 02:40:36 PM
"The one downside to Whitman's style" alludes to "if they played differently" which is complete bs.

You really want to see whitman slow it down against the 6'8" starting 5 of Williams?!

Darne Duckett killed Williams off the dribble with his mid range game. Do you want to see him running flex? You want to see Austin Butler Down screen to start a little high/low action? Makes no sense.

Whitman does what they do. They forced 29 turnovers!

How about they shoot 15/22 instead off 11/22 from the stripe? Game over

I love the style.  I didn't allude to anything.  It's a choice you make.  Every choice has pros and cons.  I think this one, if you do it well, has fewer cons than any other.  One of those happens to be close games against good teams.  Most any coach would be happy with a style where that's the worse that can happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2019, 11:30:52 PM
blackhawks, you are reading into Ryan's post in the wrong direction. His points are accurate and fair .. he isn't knocking the way Whitman plays. We have commented and raved about it for years. However, it has some draw backs. Just like a slow-down, half-court, slug it out in the mud team is going to have the draw back of not being able to ratchet things up when they need points fast.

It is all good. There are times Whitman does need to execute in a half-court set more than an up-tempo pace ... I think it isn't as smooth for them. I do wonder if media breaks are their downfall to some degree - but I haven't looked into it as much. It forces the game to be stopped and teams allowed to adjust more than Whitman would want normally. Just a theory.

BTW - the same is true with Westfield State on the women's side. They are more of a "System" team, but because of that when they needed half-court or set-play options to run in the closing seconds of the opening round ... they looked lost. I am not saying Whitman looks lost, but they seem less comfortable that way. They seem more comfortable when they are in the flow of things. That isn't always easy to accomplish or have the ability to do when you need to run a play in a matter of seconds off an inbounds.

But as others pointed out - better FT shooting and a few layups would have flipped this conversation.

Too bad Williams is winning it all. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: UWPSUPERFAN77 on March 12, 2019, 02:32:40 PM
On Whitman: I saw you lost last year at Platteville to NW,the national champs! I think you guys lose because of the schedule you play and always being on the Road! I know the NCAA is cheap, but always playing on the road is unfair to you,considering your record! You play an unfair uphill battle! my sympathy to you!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2019, 04:40:22 PM
Quote from: UWPSUPERFAN77 on March 12, 2019, 02:32:40 PM
On Whitman: I saw you lost last year at Platteville to NW,the national champs! I think you guys lose because of the schedule you play and always being on the Road! I know the NCAA is cheap, but always playing on the road is unfair to you,considering your record! You play an unfair uphill battle! my sympathy to you!

Feel free to read the post I put in the NESCAC board about this. It will help.

When you left the boards, the idea of anyone getting to host three teams all flown in to the same pod was unheard of. It happens now. A lot has changed with the "cheap NCAA."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 13, 2019, 12:59:19 AM
d-mac....PC knows I'm a NWC honk.  I don't want an advantage, I just don't want to be disadvantaged.

I might be stirring up an outside fluid or written in stone constitution argument, but I reason before the island conferences were accepted into NCAA III someone should have anticipated having to cross the Rockies.

I'm also tired of getting 3.18 % on my savings and TSAs.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 13, 2019, 12:59:19 AM
d-mac....PC knows I'm a NWC honk.  I don't want an advantage, I just don't want to be disadvantaged.

I might be stirring up an outside fluid or written in stone constitution argument, but I reason before the island conferences were accepted into NCAA III someone should have anticipated having to cross the Rockies.

I'm also tired of getting 3.18 % on my savings and TSAs.

Those conferences applied, knowing the rules and restrictions.  I think the problem is too many people compare d3 to d1 and get upset, when they should be comparing 2019 to 2009 or 1999 and they'd be ecstatic.  I also believe Whitman wouldn't want excuses like travel made for them.  Yeah, it's more difficult, but I can't believe it's what Brigdeland or any of the guys would point to as a difference in that game.

Honestly, CNU might want to thank Whitman; I'm not sure they'd've gotten by Williams without the fatigue from the night before.  Whitman would've beaten Williams with two or three more minutes on the clock.  It looked like a lot of their competitive games this year, Williams simply held out just long enough.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2019, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on March 13, 2019, 12:59:19 AM
d-mac....PC knows I'm a NWC honk.  I don't want an advantage, I just don't want to be disadvantaged.

I might be stirring up an outside fluid or written in stone constitution argument, but I reason before the island conferences were accepted into NCAA III someone should have anticipated having to cross the Rockies.

I'm also tired of getting 3.18 % on my savings and TSAs.

The SCIAC has been in D-III forever.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 12:38:23 PM
Yep. The first appearance by a SCIAC team in the tourney was by Whittier all the way back in 1979. Whittier even hosted during the first weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 13, 2019, 05:20:20 PM
NWC honk
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: UWPSUPERFAN77 on March 13, 2019, 10:26:07 PM
When was the sectional on the west Coast! You win a sectional to get to the Big Dance! has it ever been? just asking!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2019, 01:14:13 AM
Yes! It has! In 2004!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: UWPSUPERFAN77 on March 14, 2019, 06:25:49 AM
Thank you Pat! That was long time ago,even for an old guy like me! My Point being made!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 14, 2019, 09:12:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2019, 01:14:13 AM
Yes! It has! In 2004!

GREAT post. ;D

Quote from: UWPSUPERFAN77 on March 14, 2019, 06:25:49 AM
Thank you Pat! That was long time ago,even for an old guy like me! My Point being made!

But obviously a bit too subtle for some posters. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on March 15, 2019, 02:01:22 PM
In other NWC news:

Whitman men's basketball senior guard Austin Butler is a finalist in the "Darkhorse Dunker" contest. On the line is a trip to the NCAA Division I Final Four in Minneapolis, Minn. to compete in the 2019 College Slam Dunk contest broadcast live on ESPN.

Voting starts today and ends Friday, March 22. You can vote once per day and do so on each of your devices and on each of the browsers installed on those devices. (Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, Safari, etc.) Several browsers feature an "incognito" mode which you can also use to vote, and do so up to three times per day.

If you'd like to see Austin represent D3, go to http://www.darkhorsedunker.com/ and click "VOTE NOW" under Austin's headshot.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2019, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 14, 2019, 09:12:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2019, 01:14:13 AM
Yes! It has! In 2004!

GREAT post. ;D

Quote from: UWPSUPERFAN77 on March 14, 2019, 06:25:49 AM
Thank you Pat! That was long time ago,even for an old guy like me! My Point being made!

But obviously a bit too subtle for some posters. ;)
+1! 

My frustration with that tournament is that Sul Ross had a big lead on Larry U and lost in OT in Round 3, there at Puget Sound in Tacoma WA.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 12, 2019, 08:25:36 PM
Surprised  no one mentioned it. Matt Airy has left Whitman to take over the reigns at Aurora.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 06:59:24 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 12, 2019, 08:25:36 PM
Surprised  no one mentioned it. Matt Airy has left Whitman to take over the reigns at Aurora.

I don't think anyone outside Whitman or "in the know" would know that. I didn't see anything on the basketball home page or on their Twitter and certainly not on this site. He's also "just" an assistant. May not be newsworthy? And what did you say in the SLIAC board? You can't write a release on every job change, "especially low-profile ones."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
I don't know how Pat or Dave view Aurora, but I don't see it as a low-profile hire. The Spartans reach the D3 tourney fairly regularly -- and, as Wash U fans will sadly attest, the Spartans aren't always one-and-done patsies in the dance, either.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Yes, Aurora has made the tournament the last two years and had a big upset win vs Wash U last year. Still hardly a high profile team. The NACC is also not high profile. Prior to their back to back tournament appearances, they had a barren spell of once in the previous 7 years.  And, no disrespect, but Airy is an assistant. It's not like Bridgeland is headed to the Chicago area. It's been a good 10 years since Aurora has been a regular participant in the tournament and even at that time, they were a one-and -done team. I don't know the complete tournament history of Aurora, I believe the NACC has been known for being a one bid, one and done NCAA tournament league. In fact, until Benedictine's recent success, the NACC may only have one or two tournament wins. Again, it's an assistant coach going to a low profile team in a low profile conference, in my opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 13, 2019, 11:46:15 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 06:59:24 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 12, 2019, 08:25:36 PM
Surprised  no one mentioned it. Matt Airy has left Whitman to take over the reigns at Aurora.

I don't think anyone outside Whitman or "in the know" would know that. I didn't see anything on the basketball home page or on their Twitter and certainly not on this site. He's also "just" an assistant. May not be newsworthy? And what did you say in the SLIAC board? You can't write a release on every job change, "especially low-profile ones."

This was on the site as of April 9:
https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2018-19/contrib/201904095sndlh
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 12:36:18 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
Yes, Aurora has made the tournament the last two years and had a big upset win vs Wash U last year. Still hardly a high profile team. The NACC is also not high profile. Prior to their back to back tournament appearances, they had a barren spell of once in the previous 7 years.  And, no disrespect, but Airy is an assistant. It's not like Bridgeland is headed to the Chicago area. It's been a good 10 years since Aurora has been a regular participant in the tournament and even at that time, they were a one-and -done team. I don't know the complete tournament history of Aurora, I believe the NACC has been known for being a one bid, one and done NCAA tournament league. In fact, until Benedictine's recent success, the NACC may only have one or two tournament wins. Again, it's an assistant coach going to a low profile team in a low profile conference, in my opinion.

I didn't say that Aurora was a high-profile team. I just said that it wasn't a low-profile team like Blackburn. I'd say mid-profile. ;)

The NACC hasn't been around all that long, but if you also consider the two predecessor leagues that merged to form it (the NIIC and the LMC), NACC teams have had a lot more tourney success than just one or two victories aside from Benedictine's title-game run in '16. Benedictine made the Elite Eight back in '91. That was a very good team that I remember well, although it got stomped in the Elite Eight by the first of Bo Ryan's national championship teams at UW-Platteville.

Here's the tourney records of NACC members (aside from St. Norbert, of course):


school  apps  W-L (.pct)
Aurora  11  2-11 (.154)
Benedictine    8  6-8   (.429)
Concordia WI    3  0-3   (.000)
Edgewood    3  1-3   (.250)
Lakeland    1  0-1   (.000)
Marian    2  0-2   (.000)
MSOE    1  0-1   (.000)
Rockford    1  0-1   (.000)
Wisconsin Lutheran    1  0-1   (.000)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 13, 2019, 04:23:01 PM
I couldn't even have told you who Matt Airy was.

Yawn.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 15, 2019, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 13, 2019, 11:46:15 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 06:59:24 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 12, 2019, 08:25:36 PM
Surprised  no one mentioned it. Matt Airy has left Whitman to take over the reigns at Aurora.

I don't think anyone outside Whitman or "in the know" would know that. I didn't see anything on the basketball home page or on their Twitter and certainly not on this site. He's also "just" an assistant. May not be newsworthy? And what did you say in the SLIAC board? You can't write a release on every job change, "especially low-profile ones."

This was on the site as of April 9:
https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2018-19/contrib/201904095sndlh

Sorry Pat. I didn't see this on the front page. Was it on the front page or possibly in the Coaching Carousel link?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 15, 2019, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 15, 2019, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 13, 2019, 11:46:15 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 06:59:24 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 12, 2019, 08:25:36 PM
Surprised  no one mentioned it. Matt Airy has left Whitman to take over the reigns at Aurora.

I don't think anyone outside Whitman or "in the know" would know that. I didn't see anything on the basketball home page or on their Twitter and certainly not on this site. He's also "just" an assistant. May not be newsworthy? And what did you say in the SLIAC board? You can't write a release on every job change, "especially low-profile ones."

This was on the site as of April 9:
https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2018-19/contrib/201904095sndlh

Sorry Pat. I didn't see this on the front page. Was it on the front page or possibly in the Coaching Carousel link?

It's in the Coaching Carousel and since Aurora posted it as a news release, it's in the News Releases section on the home page.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 17, 2019, 11:43:19 AM
If people asked Bridgeland how important Airy has been to the program ... you may get an eye-opening response. Airy has been integral with Whitman and how good they have been. I know Bridgeland thinks highly of Airy.

And from what I've seen, what I've been told, and the changing landscape of the midwest ... Aurora could be a program to watch. I am not expecting anything major the next year or two (who knows), but I would doubt they aren't in the conversation in at least that region soon enough.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 25, 2019, 01:22:23 PM
Breaking today: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/04/logie-leaves-whitworth
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 26, 2019, 12:18:35 AM
Whitworth gets complacent and names assistant coach Jablonski new head coach. I am not impressed...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 26, 2019, 10:34:55 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 26, 2019, 12:18:35 AM
Whitworth gets complacent and names assistant coach Jablonski new head coach. I am not impressed...

Sounds a little harsh. Admittedly, I don't know anything about the program, but based on the article, it doesn't seem like Jablonski just held a clipboard and handed out water. Maybe it's a safe pick. It's a winning program and this hire is a smooth transition assuring continuity. Jablonski has been there as long as Logie as well. Why start anew?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 26, 2019, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 26, 2019, 12:18:35 AM
Whitworth gets complacent and names assistant coach Jablonski new head coach. I am not impressed...

This might be the biggest miss you have had in a while. First off, he was the associate head coach and while titles may not mean a lot to some, I know that it means he had more responsibilities and was basically a secondary head coach. I have also been told he was named "coach in waiting" last year when he was a finalist for the L&C job. Furthermore, look at his resume and you will see he has plenty of experience.

I think it is a smart hire. You keep a man in the program who has been there for some of Whitworth's best years, who is respected and listened to by the players (from what I have seen), knows the program inside and out - along with recruiting, and probably has deserved some good head coaching jobs over the years (if he was interested).

They aren't complacent. They are being smart. Keep the program moving forward without missing a beat. As Greek Tragedy explained, Jablonski is not a "hold the clipboard and pass out water" (nor create unique handshakes) kind of associate head coach. This is a smart move by the Pirates.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on April 27, 2019, 12:08:00 AM
Whitworth is slowly losing ground on Whitman in terms of recruiting. Ever since Hayford left, the talent has steadily dwindled. They either haven't gotten out of the first round or haven't even made the playoffs in the past 3 years. They have been in a steady decline. Why would I be impressed with the very real possibility of more of the same on the recruiting front and recent tourney results?

It's a safe pick. It's not a "we want to win a national championship" pick
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 27, 2019, 12:31:23 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 27, 2019, 12:08:00 AM
Whitworth is slowly losing ground on Whitman in terms of recruiting. Ever since Hayford left, the talent has steadily dwindled. They either haven't gotten out of the first round or haven't even made the playoffs in the past 3 years. They have been in a steady decline. Why would I be impressed with the very real possibility of more of the same on the recruiting front and recent tourney results?

It's a safe pick. It's not a "we want to win a national championship" pick

To be fair ... they went outside the circle to bring in Logie. Hayford somewhat knew that region from his previous coaching life. Logie jumped from the east coach (and D1) to Whitworth. That said and to be fair, Logie has set some impressive records in terms of coaching success. I understand your point about the last three years, but it wasn't like Logie failed in his eight seasons at the helm. No. They didn't have the same success in the end as Whitman has shown of late, but they only recently seemed to have slipped.

And from everything I've heard, Logie was very involved in recruiting - sometimes coaches let their assistants handle a lot and come in at the end.

Now you have a coach who at least has been involved in the recruiting. To your point, that slip in the last few years could be accurate  and if it is recruiting based there will probably be some pressure on Jablonski to figure that out.

However, I don't necessarily think it was recruiting in general. I think you can point to other things like the team seemed to always peak in early to mid-January, coast through February, and then get exposed in late February and in the NCAA Tournament. You also had some players who seemed to be excelling early in their careers and then just plateau later on. They seemed to take the conference for granted that they always would win and didn't seem to think the Whitman arrival was "real." And I think scheduling hurt them. I would love to see better non-conference scheduling (other than a couple of games in Vegas) to get them ready for the grind and later the NCAA Tournament.

I don't think that is all on recruiting. Sure, Jablonski is going to have maybe some challenges to face. I think they found a good person to run the program, though I can understand frustration for not opening the search. You never know who may be interested (look at what George Fox women did; that surprised me). But again, I think Jablonski may surprise some people.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 27, 2019, 12:35:08 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on April 27, 2019, 12:08:00 AM
Whitworth is slowly losing ground on Whitman in terms of recruiting. Ever since Hayford left, the talent has steadily dwindled. They either haven't gotten out of the first round or haven't even made the playoffs in the past 3 years. They have been in a steady decline. Why would I be impressed with the very real possibility of more of the same on the recruiting front and recent tourney results?

It's a safe pick. It's not a "we want to win a national championship" pick

I'm not sure the recruiting gap is true.  The players Whitworth had last year were just as good, if not better, talent-wise.  They didn't have as many of them, but Whitman didn't plan on all those guys either.  It's not like Bridgeland planned to have a 15 man rotation and recruited to it.

Whitworth is a great school with a stellar reputation well beyond athletics.  I don't think they're really losing ground.  Isaiah Hernandez might be the best player in the conference next year.  Not the end of the world - at least give the guy a chance, at least.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on May 18, 2019, 03:57:02 PM
Just because Whitman is great now, does not mean Whitworth is worse.  Bridgeland has made Whitman as good, or better than he made UPS.  Hayford made Whitworth on the same level that Whitman is now for his last five years. However, he was not beating UPS when Bridgeland was there.  Logie was beating Bridgeland for several years. Not sure Hayford would have done much better these last couple years. In my opinion, there is not much difference between what Hayford and Logie accomplished at Whitworth. Yes, Hayford built it up (but it wasn't a bad program before). But it is hard to come in and keep a top program at the top like Logie did. The difference between Whitworth now and 5 years ago, besides Whitman being a little better, is probably a difference in how the teams gelled. Let's be honest, this team underachieved.   That is more on the players than the coaches IMHO.

As for the new coach, we'll see.  The talent is there. Maybe he can get this team to play at little higher level with the addition of a key piece or two.  I like the idea of giving a smart assistant a shot rather than hiring a retread from somewhere else. Also got to give him credit for demanding the coach in-waiting deal and not having to deal with competition when he got the job. So far he's been smart.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: stag44 on November 01, 2019, 11:22:17 PM
Any updates on how the NWC is looking this year?

CMS is coming up next week to play Fox and Whitworth - excited for the early season test for the Stags!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on November 04, 2019, 04:53:26 PM
Quote from: stag44 on November 01, 2019, 11:22:17 PM
Any updates on how the NWC is looking this year?

CMS is coming up next week to play Fox and Whitworth - excited for the early season test for the Stags!

I'm planning to tune into the action in Spokane this weekend. Should be a nice glimpse at two of the likely challengers to Whitman's NWC supremacy. I'll be rooting for CMS to extend it's winning streak vs Whitworth!

I haven't seen a preseason NWC poll, but I'd imagine Whitman will be the unanimous pick to repeat as conference champs despite losing seven seniors. They had so much depth last year that just the returners are probably strong enough to win the conference, and I know at least of couple of the newcomers have impressed in practice.

That said, the Blues don't appear to be as deep, and aside from Duckett, Vickers, and Osborne, it's not clear who the go-to options are going to be on the offensive end. It's been three years since Whitman lost a regular season game in the NWC...I'm guessing that streak comes to an end this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 06, 2019, 02:12:17 PM
UPS and Willamette had  games against DI teams last night. Not sure what these games against upper division teams says about how a DIII will be in league, but it is nice to have the teams hang with them.  UPS got blown out by Portland State in the first half and played them even in the second.  Sounds like Portland overwhelmed Willamette. Seems like encouraging news for UPS and a little worrisome for Willamette.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on November 07, 2019, 07:24:16 PM
NWC preseason poll: https://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/releases/20191107MBBPSP (https://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/releases/20191107MBBPSP)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on November 13, 2019, 02:02:11 AM
http://www.goseattleu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18200&ATCLID=211815967

Pacific had a good showing against Seattle University. SU had to use their big man to take over the game.  No one like him in the NWC.  If Pacific can play like this throughout the season they will make some noise in the NWC.

This was Hayford's 400th win.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on November 21, 2019, 04:01:39 PM
Nice start to the season for Whitworth. I missed the win over St. Thomas, but caught the CMS win and Whitworth looked solid. Their guards are excellent and based on the St. Thomas box score it looks like they were the driving force behind that win. If Hernandez, Lester, and College keep shooting like that, the Pirates will be tough to beat.

Speaking of shooting, Whitman shot well in their opener against Montclair St, but terribly against St. Thomas and not great against Cal Lutheran. I hope/assume they'll shoot better moving forward, but it's something to watch after losing Butler, Hewett, Stewart, and Jacobs-Jones, all of whom were high percentage shooters. Duckett in particular is one to watch on that front, as he's a high volume shooter and has gone cold the last couple games.

Kirkley has burst out of the gate averaging 21 on 66% shooting. He's a physically tough player with great body control in the lane and adds an element of what the Blues lost with Hewett. He and Vickers look like a formidable 1-2 punch.

As for newcomers, Trifunovic seems to be the one to watch, averaging 8 per game.

Should be a fun season. Guessing Whitworth will be vaulting up the next top 25 poll.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 09, 2019, 06:25:15 PM
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The 2019-20 season started a month ago. Already there has been plenty to talk about with still three months of regular season basketball to be played. And just as things got rolling on the court, now is also a time when we see things slow down for finals and the holiday break.

On Monday's special edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave chats with a few teams who are off to pretty good starts in the opening month. Some maybe surprising and others with still plenty of questions to be asked.

How good is Baldwin Wallace women and how hard with the OAC be this season? Are the Edgewood women as good as their incredible 9-0 start leads one to believe? And Whitworth men technically have a new coach at the helm, but is this the same Pirates program we've gotten used to over the years?

Plus, we react to what should be brand new men's and women's Top 25 polls.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Cheri Harrer, No. 20 Baldwin Wallace women's coach
- Chaia Huff, Edgewood women's head coach
- Damion Jablonski, No. 20 Whitworth men's coach
- Bob Quillman, Top 25 Double-Take

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Monday's show LIVE with the following options:
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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on January 12, 2020, 01:15:01 AM
It's shaping up to be a three team race, with Whitman, Whitworth, and Linfield all sitting at 4-0.

Whitman is finally healthy* and looked as good as they have all year this weekend. Playing Willamette and Lewis & Clark has a way of making you look good, but it was encouraging seeing them look cohesive on defense and efficient on offense. The shooting was very encouraging, especially seeing Osborne emerge from his mini-slump to light it up two night in a row.

If the Whits can take care of business in Oregon next weekend their matchup in Spokane the following Tuesday will be huge.

*Duckett went down with an apparent leg injury in the first half tonight. It didn't appear serious, so hopefully they kept him out purely as a precautionary measure.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2020, 11:55:30 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on January 12, 2020, 01:15:01 AM
It's shaping up to be a three team race, with Whitman, Whitworth, and Linfield all sitting at 4-0.

Whitman is finally healthy* and looked as good as they have all year this weekend. Playing Willamette and Lewis & Clark has a way of making you look good, but it was encouraging seeing them look cohesive on defense and efficient on offense. The shooting was very encouraging, especially seeing Osborne emerge from his mini-slump to light it up two night in a row.

If the Whits can take care of business in Oregon next weekend their matchup in Spokane the following Tuesday will be huge.

*Duckett went down with an apparent leg injury in the first half tonight. It didn't appear serious, so hopefully they kept him out purely as a precautionary measure.

Do we know the status of Isaiah Hernandez?  If he's not coming back, that changes a lot of things for the NWC picture.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 13, 2020, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2020, 11:55:30 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on January 12, 2020, 01:15:01 AM
It's shaping up to be a three team race, with Whitman, Whitworth, and Linfield all sitting at 4-0.

Whitman is finally healthy* and looked as good as they have all year this weekend. Playing Willamette and Lewis & Clark has a way of making you look good, but it was encouraging seeing them look cohesive on defense and efficient on offense. The shooting was very encouraging, especially seeing Osborne emerge from his mini-slump to light it up two night in a row.

If the Whits can take care of business in Oregon next weekend their matchup in Spokane the following Tuesday will be huge.

*Duckett went down with an apparent leg injury in the first half tonight. It didn't appear serious, so hopefully they kept him out purely as a precautionary measure.

Do we know the status of Isaiah Hernandez?  If he's not coming back, that changes a lot of things for the NWC picture.

I talked to Isaiah Saturday night after the game.  He says he has been released and will be back on the court this weekend in Oregon.

The 21st and 24th will be big games in the Fieldhouse for sure!  A lot is at stake that weekend, even in Walla Walla on the 25th.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 18, 2020, 12:38:26 AM
Gee, checked in on the L&C-LINFIELD game in the 4th quarter this Friday night.
11-3
5-0
This is more like it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2020, 10:04:21 AM

Not only was Isaiah Hernandez back, but he played an excellent game and really made the difference for Whitworth.  College was not hitting early and Hernandez hit four clutch FTs down the stretch.  I'm glad I didn't drop Whitworth entirely out of my ballot.  I was counting on Hernandez being back and while they still need some adjustments, it does appear Whitworth is the class of the NWC this season.


(Cue a Whitman win on Tuesday).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on January 18, 2020, 08:29:00 PM
Hoops Fan,

Had to smite that bad karma statement that WW is the class of the league.  Too early to say that with two undefeated teams still left. WW looks great, but some dumb fouls down the stretch.  Looks like a great 3-way battle at this point. Fox looked good. Very active. They are a step below the top 3, but will give all three teams a go it when they meet up.  Maybe tonight they will give WM a run for their money.  We'll see.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 12:59:14 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2020, 10:04:21 AM

Not only was Isaiah Hernandez back, but he played an excellent game and really made the difference for Whitworth.  College was not hitting early and Hernandez hit four clutch FTs down the stretch.  I'm glad I didn't drop Whitworth entirely out of my ballot.  I was counting on Hernandez being back and while they still need some adjustments, it does appear Whitworth is the class of the NWC this season.


(Cue a Whitman win on Tuesday).

It's a frustrating kind of magic, but it's magic nonetheless.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on January 22, 2020, 03:27:05 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 12:59:14 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2020, 10:04:21 AM

Not only was Isaiah Hernandez back, but he played an excellent game and really made the difference for Whitworth.  College was not hitting early and Hernandez hit four clutch FTs down the stretch.  I'm glad I didn't drop Whitworth entirely out of my ballot.  I was counting on Hernandez being back and while they still need some adjustments, it does appear Whitworth is the class of the NWC this season.


(Cue a Whitman win on Tuesday).


It's a frustrating kind of magic, but it's magic nonetheless.

:)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on January 22, 2020, 03:47:57 PM
Fun back-and-forth game last night, with Whitman emerging with their 63-game NWC regular season winning streak intact and their 5th consecutive win in Spokane, both mighty impressive feats. Neither team looked sharp, but there were some great individual efforts on both sides, most notably Aussie Rob Colton's career high 25 points for Whitman (and 9 offensive rebounds!).

I'm eager to see how Linfield fares this weekend, and glad the Blues get to face them on Saturday after they play Whitworth on Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 22, 2020, 04:39:39 PM
Yep, brutal weekend for LINFIELD
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on January 26, 2020, 08:29:13 PM
Whitman is now firmly in the driver's seat in the NWC after handing Linfield their second loss on the weekend. Linfield burst out to a 14-2 lead, but from that point forward Whitman controlled the game and cruised to victory.

It'll be interesting to see how the Whits fare next month when they travel to Linfield. Whitworth barely pulled the game out at home -- not hard to see it playing out the other way next time. And Whitman would likely have a harder time digging out of a hole on the road.

Whitman is playing at a very different level than they were 6 weeks ago. It's a credit to Bridgeland that he has brought this group together despite losing so much talent and dealing with early season injuries to key returners.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 10, 2020, 07:07:13 PM
The Blues 67-game NWC regular season winning streak is over, after Lewis & Clark prevailed on Saturday.

The Pios shot really well and held Whitman to just 83 points, well below their season average. Whitman was just 6-21 from 3 and 15-28 from the line...tough to win with that kind of shooting. Rob Colton dominated the offensive glass with 8 boards, but his 5-14 from the line really hurt.

It's been a while since Whitman laid an egg during conference play, but this feels a lot like some of the early season losses. Unlike previous years, this Blues team will have a harder time winning on an off night.

Also concerning is that Trevor Osborne went down in the waning seconds with what looked like a knee injury and had to be helped off the floor. Hopefully he's back in action this weekend.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
First Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 15, 2020, 01:45:54 PM
Looks like an AWESOME finish coming up for the conference.  The three top teams will play each other at the end of the regular season and how they do in these last games will determine the seeding for the tournament. Then they will play each other in the tournament. Hopefully, we get 2 teams in the NCAA tournament and those two will play each other one more time.  By the time we get to the third round of the NCAA tournament these teams will be sick of each other but they will all have played some great games. If you are a NWC basketball fan, the only way this gets better is if Whitworth is the team that heads into the Sweet Sixteen.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2020, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 15, 2020, 01:45:54 PM
Looks like an AWESOME finish coming up for the conference.  The three top teams will play each other at the end of the regular season and how they do in these last games will determine the seeding for the tournament. Then they will play each other in the tournament. Hopefully, we get 2 teams in the NCAA tournament and those two will play each other one more time.  By the time we get to the third round of the NCAA tournament these teams will be sick of each other but they will all have played some great games. If you are a NWC basketball fan, the only way this gets better is if Whitworth is the team that heads into the Sweet Sixteen.

First ... regional rankings indicate getting a second team in would be difficult this year. That said, let's see what this week's say. But Whitworth is ranked fourth but other data not included that could hurt them. And no other team ranked at all.

Second ... third round of the tournament? As much as I want to see it ... I doubt that the committee would be able to split up the teams if they have two from the Northwest in the tournament. Not with the expenses this tournament will already have.

Remember, Sweet 16 will be played at eight different schools (eight games, four on friday and four on saturday). And the quarterfinals and semifinals will be in Fort Wayne this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 15, 2020, 03:04:30 PM
If the NWC gets 2 teams in the tournament, then the first round will be a pod of 4 teams someplace.  Hopefully the committee won't make the two NWC teams play each other in the first round.  Then, if both NWC teams win their first round, they will play each other in the second round and then a NWC team will be in the Sweet Sixteen.  That has been the norm the last few years. We might not get two teams in this year, but we consistently put out a top 16 team every year. The NWC has had a team in the Sweet Sixteen or higher every year since the 2002-03 season with two exceptions when their top team went out in the second round.  Most of those years were with one team getting into the tournament.  Hopefully the streak will continue.  Most importantly, before we get to the NCAA tournament, we have some great games comping up.  The top 3 teams will play each other once each.  Then these teams will be in the conference tournament and we can count on 3 more games of top level basketball. Then the NCAA tournament will start. It is great to see the league have at least 3 high level teams.  Back  10 to 15 years ago the league had 3 to 5 teams slugging it out and the league was more interesting than where it was a couple years ago with Whitman and Whitworth way above the rest of the teams.  Hopefully LC beating Whitman is a sign they are on the rise and PLU's record is an indication that they will be challenging the top 3 teams next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 15, 2020, 03:47:52 PM
If the NWC gets two teams into the tourney, they won't play in the first round. The committee is instructed by the NCAA to avoid pairing two teams from the same league in the opening round if at all possible -- and, even with the constraints of being one of the "island" leagues in D3, the NWC won't be in a situation in which the committee will be forced to go against those instructions by bracketing two NWC teams to meet in the first round. Second round? Sure. But not the first.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2020, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 15, 2020, 03:47:52 PM
If the NWC gets two teams into the tourney, they won't play in the first round. The committee is instructed by the NCAA to avoid pairing two teams from the same league in the opening round if at all possible -- and, even with the constraints of being one of the "island" leagues in D3, the NWC won't be in a situation in which the committee will be forced to go against those instructions by bracketing two NWC teams to meet in the first round. Second round? Sure. But not the first.

Sager - it's a step further than "if at all possible." DIII in ALL sports has a trial period in place as of this academic year (19-20) that NO conference opponents will face one another in the first round of ANY NCAA tournament for the next few years. Basketball (both genders) has done as much as it can to avoid it despite there not being a hard and fast rule, but the NWC women a few years ago had no choice with three teams in the tournament - two had to face one another in the first round. Currently, one of those teams (at least) would be shipped out to another place to avoid the first-round match-up.

After this trial period is over, things will be re-evaluated (costs and other factors). Both basketball committees are trying to push that no conference opponent can face one another, even possibly, in the first weekend/two rounds ... but that might be a hill too far.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2020, 01:24:26 AM

It's very unlikely two NWC teams will get in this year anyway.  Whitworth is a very borderline case with another loss and no other team will even sniff Pool C.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 18, 2020, 06:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2020, 01:24:26 AM

It's very unlikely two NWC teams will get in this year anyway.  Whitworth is a very borderline case with another loss and no other team will even sniff Pool C.

Ryan - so if Whitworth wins out this week ending the regular season at 21-4, then loses in the Conference tourney final and goes 22-5, they wouldn't get a Pool C at large berth?  Is that based on the overall strength of the West region?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 18, 2020, 06:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2020, 01:24:26 AM

It's very unlikely two NWC teams will get in this year anyway.  Whitworth is a very borderline case with another loss and no other team will even sniff Pool C.

Ryan - so if Whitworth wins out this week ending the regular season at 21-4, then loses in the Conference tourney final and goes 22-5, they wouldn't get a Pool C at large berth?  Is that based on the overall strength of the West region?

That may be the only way they get in ... their SOS is right at .500 which isn't going to help them ... and their vRRO is currently 1-3 and that likely won't get better (could get worse if the wrong teams leave their rankings) .. and 1-3 bolstering much.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2020, 07:51:47 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 18, 2020, 06:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2020, 01:24:26 AM

It's very unlikely two NWC teams will get in this year anyway.  Whitworth is a very borderline case with another loss and no other team will even sniff Pool C.

Ryan - so if Whitworth wins out this week ending the regular season at 21-4, then loses in the Conference tourney final and goes 22-5, they wouldn't get a Pool C at large berth?  Is that based on the overall strength of the West region?

That may be the only way they get in ... their SOS is right at .500 which isn't going to help them ... and their vRRO is currently 1-3 and that likely won't get better (could get worse if the wrong teams leave their rankings) .. and 1-3 bolstering much.

It's basically this.  It's not out of the question, but they don't have a resume they can be confident in for Pool C.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 01:12:36 PM
Week 2's Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on February 19, 2020, 07:58:46 PM
Fun game in Walla Walla last night, with Whitworth finally getting a regular season W over the Blues for the first time in ages after bursting out of the gate to a 17-2 lead. To Whitman's credit, they battled back and had a chance to win, but it felt like poor shooting and/or poor shot selection and/or solid Whitworth defense kept them from getting a lead down the stretch.

There's a chance the Blues could fall to third in the conference if they drop the game at Linfield this weekend, which would be a somewhat shocking result after starting out 11-0. Still, I like their chances to win the conference tournament and make a run in the tournament again. I think they have more upside (and more volatility) than the other teams in the NWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
Linfield has been killing it since the ill-fated weekend in Eastern Washington.  It will be quite a feat to win both games, but they are capable of doing it.  The question I have is what are the tie-breaker scenarios?

If WW wins on Friday, they are #1.  However, if they lose and WM wins on Saturday I assume WM is the #1 seed over WW since they will have beaten Linfield twice (the next highest ranked team).  If Linfield wins both games then both WW and Linfield will have two losses—a loss to each other and to WM.  Who gets the #1 seed then?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2020, 04:03:20 PM
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The second Regional Rankings are out, conference races are finishing up while some tournaments have begun. The frenetic finish to the regular season has begun.

On Thursday's Hoopsville, we chat to a few teams who are either leading their conference standings or could shake them up in their final scheduled games. Plus, a true #whyd3 way of approaching the season - giving back to the community while playing the game.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Sacha Santimano, Eastern Nazarene women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Matt Hunter, York (Pa.) men's coach
- Kevin Broderick, Nazareth men's coach
- Shanan Rosenberg, Linfield men's coach

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show LIVE starting at 7:00 pm ET in the following ways:
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Monday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 22, 2020, 01:08:36 AM
AH OOOO! There it is.

Home cooking.
Thanks Shannon and TEAM.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 22, 2020, 01:52:50 AM
Great game between WM and Linfield.  It will be interesting to see how Linfield does tomorrow. I don't envy them having to play WM and WW on back to back nights. Not really fair.

The announcers answered the question about the tiebreaker between WW and Linfield tonight. They said WW gets the #1 seed no matter what happens tomorrow night.  I have no idea why WW gets a tiebreaker over Linfield, but that is good news for the Bucs.  Does anyone know the rules?  If Linfield wins tomorrow they will have the same exact record in league.  A loss to each other and a loss to WM.

BTW--At least on the players side of the court that was a weak crowd for such a big game. Can't a few Linfield fans come out for basketball? 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 22, 2020, 02:24:16 AM
Had to watch on computer from Orange.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: PirateDaddy on February 22, 2020, 12:03:14 PM
It's my understanding that what makes Whitworth the host for the final game is their number of road wins.  That was reported on the radio postgame show Tuesday night and according to Whitworth's SID.

"The announcers answered the question about the tiebreaker between WW and Linfield tonight. They said WW gets the #1 seed no matter what happens tomorrow night.  I have no idea why WW gets a tiebreaker over Linfield, but that is good news for the Bucs.  Does anyone know the rules?  If Linfield wins tomorrow they will have the same exact record in league.  A loss to each other and a loss to WM."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 23, 2020, 12:19:19 AM
AH OOOO! There it is again!

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catjumper on February 23, 2020, 02:21:07 AM
That'll work - nice job, 'Cats.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 23, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Before the game I said it was unfair that Linfield had to play two games in a row like that. However, it looked like Whitworth was the team playing the second game in two nights. If Linfield can keep that energy and level of play up there's no reason why they shouldn't win both games next weekend.  #14 on Linfield Seems like he is pretty underrated. I haven't heard his name mentioned for any all league honors but I thought he was one of the best players on the floor last night. He also played well the night before.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2020, 02:37:27 PM
The Week 3 men's regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 27, 2020, 12:09:19 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2020, 02:37:27 PM
The Week 3 men's regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-third

Pardon my ignorance...again.  Assuming my Pirates win the NWC tourney this weekend, and with the strength of the West region...any chance they get to host a first round pod next weekend?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2020, 12:17:38 PM
It doesn't seem likely that they will be one of the top couple of West Region teams, no. If it were my committee, I'd be trying to find ways to get games hosted at St. Thomas, St. John's and Nebraska Wesleyan.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 27, 2020, 01:17:14 PM
Hmmm, St Paul and Collegeville are easy to get to from Spokane, Lincoln not so much.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2020, 07:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2020, 12:17:38 PM
It doesn't seem likely that they will be one of the top couple of West Region teams, no. If it were my committee, I'd be trying to find ways to get games hosted at St. Thomas, St. John's and Nebraska Wesleyan.

From what I gathered today ... I don't think SJU and UST will be hosting ... maybe NWU gets one, but trying to get enough teams to both SJU and UST may be too difficult.

It may happen, but from what I gathered today ... it likely won't happen.

BTW - Same would be true for Benedictine and North Central if they both were to be in position ... mainly because it limits the committee's ability to diversify the brackets (IMO).
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2020, 08:59:05 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 27, 2020, 01:17:14 PM
Hmmm, St Paul and Collegeville are easy to get to from Spokane, Lincoln not so much.

It's only an hour from the Omaha airport, pretty straight shot.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 28, 2020, 12:31:44 AM
Congrats Whitman on takin' care of business.
Ah gots the blues....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTQt6lHoMcM

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2020, 12:53:11 PM
Whitman looked pretty good last night. Duckett was unstoppable. It'll be a great game tomorrow night.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on February 28, 2020, 01:32:09 PM
I missed both games last night. Family game online at the same time. From the scores and recaps, it looks like Whitman is out of their slump and that there is quite a distance between the top three teams and the rest of the league.  Hopefully, PLU and LC keep making the strides that Linfield may the last couple years and the league becomes more competitive from top to bottom.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on March 01, 2020, 02:40:21 AM
A different path, but the same result in the NWC as Whitman takes the NWC crown and the pool A bid. Guessing Whitworth will be on the wrong side of the bubble, but who knows?

Duckett has been up and down this year, but he showed up huge the last two games. If he, Vickers, and Kirkley are on, the Blues are tough to beat.

Curious to see where Whitman goes for the first weekend...
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2020, 07:19:08 AM

Whitworth has a win over St. Thomas, so that will bode well for them in Pool C consideration.  They'll also likely be at the table decently early, so the committee will be looking at them for a while.  It's certainly not impossible.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 03, 2020, 02:11:49 AM
Congrats to Whitworth!! They got the Pool C bid!!!!

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 06, 2020, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 15, 2020, 03:04:30 PM
... and then a NWC team will be in the Sweet Sixteen.  That has been the norm the last few years. We might not get two teams in this year, but we consistently put out a top 16 team every year. The NWC has had a team in the Sweet Sixteen or higher every year since the 2002-03 season with two exceptions when their top team went out in the second round. 

And the streak continues with getting a team into the second round. One more win by WW and we will have a Sweet 16 team when no team from the league was ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year.

Looks like Whitman ran into a tough first-round team. Those Wisconsin DIII state schools are tough to compete with.  A kid can go to those schools for about $8000 a year (in-state tuition). My kids got great educations at NWC schools and had great experiences playing, but I would have loved to pay one fifth of the tuition.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 07, 2020, 10:38:05 PM
SWEET SIXTEEN!!!!

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 07, 2020, 10:38:05 PM
SWEET SIXTEEN!!!!

You coming to Philly next Friday?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2020, 12:56:21 AM
The host sites for the men's Sweet 16 have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2020/bracket and game times: https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2019-20/ncaa-tournament?date=2020-03-13 and https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2019-20/ncaa-tournament?date=2020-03-14
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 08, 2020, 03:13:32 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 07, 2020, 10:38:05 PM
SWEET SIXTEEN!!!!

You coming to Philly next Friday?

Won't be able to make it. My son that used to play at WW is now coaching at Eastern Washington and they are playing in the Big Sky Tournament next week. I Hope to watch Whitworth play Swathmore online.  It would be a great win for the Pirates.

Spokane Basketball is having a great year. Whitworth won the NWC, Eastern Washington won the Big Sky, and Gonzaga won the WCC (not to mention ranked #1 or #2 for a good part of the year). 

Here is a bit of Swathmore basketball trivia.  When I was a medical student and doing my cardiology rotation, the attending physician for the rotation came in one day and showed us a picture of us the JV basketball team when he played at Swathmore. Then he pointed to one of the players and said, "That's Mike Dukakis."


Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2020, 08:36:58 AM
Swarthmore, not "Swathmore."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2020, 08:36:58 AM
Swarthmore, not "Swathmore."

The R is visibly present in a big way, but nothing more.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2020, 01:59:42 PM
True. The unofficial nickname of the school is "Swat."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on March 08, 2020, 03:00:34 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 08, 2020, 03:13:32 AM
When I was a medical student and doing my cardiology rotation, the attending physician for the rotation came in one day and showed us a picture of us the JV basketball team when he played at Swathmore. Then he pointed to one of the players and said, "That's Mike Dukakis."

Dukakis was a hell of a tough player. His nickname was "The Tank."

OxyBob
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2020, 03:18:55 PM
(https://blogs-images.forbes.com/kellyphillipserb/files/2016/10/5-Aleppo-Moments_Dukakis.gif)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 09, 2020, 01:02:37 AM
Just hope WW doesn't get rolled over.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2020, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 09, 2020, 01:02:37 AM
Just hope WW doesn't get rolled over.

Way to think positive! LeTourneau had one of the top 5 players in the division this year. Whitworth snuck by them. Then they played the top team in the ASC. Neither are Swarthmore, but I don't think they'll get steam-rolled. It was probably a coin flip that they'd get out of the 1st round and now they're in the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2020, 10:38:55 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2020, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 09, 2020, 01:02:37 AM
Just hope WW doesn't get rolled over.

Way to think positive! LeTourneau had one of the top 5 players in the division this year. Whitworth snuck by them. Then they played the top team in the ASC. Neither are Swarthmore, but I don't think they'll get steam-rolled. It was probably a coin flip that they'd get out of the 1st round and now they're in the Sweet 16.

I'd say Whitworth has to manage errors and keep the bigs out of foul trouble.  The starters on both teams match up well, but Swarthmore's got a much deeper bench.  Not in terms of style, but in terms of relentlessness, it's going to be like playing Whitman.  Swat won't necessarily move at the same pace, but they keep you on your toes the same way - and they can throw waves of guys at you.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on March 10, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
It's awesome to see NWC making it to the Sweet 16 yet again. I wish my Blues had made it, too, but the inconsistency they displayed all year was evident vs UWEC.

It's also nice to see SCIAC advancing after three consecutive years of getting knocked out in the second round vs Whitman. I know these conferences aren't as deep as others, but the top end programs are absolutely national contenders and it's nice when they get a chance to advance without knocking each other off.

Good luck to Whitworth and P-P this weekend!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2020, 12:00:16 AM
I realize that the NWC isn't done yet, but I'm already looking towards to next year. Whitworth and Whitman both have heavy losses to graduation. Is there a team that will take over next year or is a matter of reloading rather than rebuilding for the two Whits?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2020, 09:06:36 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2020, 12:00:16 AM
I realize that the NWC isn't done yet, but I'm already looking towards to next year. Whitworth and Whitman both have heavy losses to graduation. Is there a team that will take over next year or is a matter of reloading rather than rebuilding for the two Whits?

Linfield graduates some key players, but they bring back a big chunk of their core.  If the recruiting success continues, they'll definitely be contenders into the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2020, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on March 10, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
It's also nice to see SCIAC advancing after three consecutive years of getting knocked out in the second round vs Whitman. I know these conferences aren't as deep as others, but the top end programs are absolutely national contenders

History has not demonstrated that to be true, especially for the SCIAC -- and keep in mind that the SCIAC has been part of D3 since the late '70s. No SCIAC team has ever reached the Final Four, and only the 2017 Whitman team has gotten that far from the NWC. The list of SCIAC and NWC teams that have reached the Elite Eight is not extensive, either:

1981 Whittier
2002 Lewis & Clark
2003 Occidental
2006 Puget Sound
2011 Whitworth
2017 Whitman
2018 Whitman

It would seem that the West Coast teams have made strides in the new millennium, seeing as how they've made six of the 20 Elite Eights played since Y2K. But their performance once they've reached that level has been dismal. The five teams listed above that have reached the Elite Eight but gone no further since 2000 each lost their Elite Eight game by double digits, and the average margin of defeat in those six games was 15 points.

No doubt about it, Whitman has been very solid over the past four seasons. But the 2017 Whitman team distorted what has been the actual record of NWC teams over the past two decades -- and the SCIAC's legacy is in fact far more dismal than the NWC's in the big dance.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2020, 11:11:11 AM

Swarthmore announced they will play without spectators.  Whitworth fans should be cancelling airfare, if they can.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: CalCat on March 11, 2020, 11:58:12 AM
We regret to inform you that, due to the global coronavirus epidemic (COVID-19), spectators are prohibited from attending this Saturday's NCAA Division III men's basketball game between Swarthmore College and Whitworth University.

Only team personnel, credentialed administration and media*, and gameday staff will be permitted to attend the contest in Tarble Pavilion. Individuals who have already purchased tickets for Saturday's game will be refunded in the coming days.

Fans interested in watching the game can still do so via the Garnet Sports Network beginning at 4:45 p.m.


From @swatathletics twitter account
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on March 11, 2020, 12:52:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2020, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on March 10, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
It's also nice to see SCIAC advancing after three consecutive years of getting knocked out in the second round vs Whitman. I know these conferences aren't as deep as others, but the top end programs are absolutely national contenders

History has not demonstrated that to be true, especially for the SCIAC -- and keep in mind that the SCIAC has been part of D3 since the late '70s. No SCIAC team has ever reached the Final Four, and only the 2017 Whitman team has gotten that far from the NWC. The list of SCIAC and NWC teams that have reached the Elite Eight is not extensive, either:

1981 Whittier
2002 Lewis & Clark
2003 Occidental
2006 Puget Sound
2011 Whitworth
2017 Whitman
2018 Whitman

It would seem that the West Coast teams have made strides in the new millennium, seeing as how they've made six of the 20 Elite Eights played since Y2K. But their performance once they've reached that level has been dismal. The five teams listed above that have reached the Elite Eight but gone no further since 2000 each lost their Elite Eight game by double digits, and the average margin of defeat in those six games was 15 points.

No doubt about it, Whitman has been very solid over the past four seasons. But the 2017 Whitman team distorted what has been the actual record of NWC teams over the past two decades -- and the SCIAC's legacy is in fact far more dismal than the NWC's in the big dance.

Right, I'm mostly thinking about recent history, like the past five years. For instance, the Claremont teams that knocked off Whitworth two years in a row and then nearly beat Whitman were pretty darn good. Same for last year's Pomona team. Basically, I would argue that the past four years Whitman, Whitworth, and the top SCIAC team were all Elite Eight caliber teams. But for three of those years, because of bracketing, only one team could advance to the Sweet 16. I'm not complaining. I understand the reality. But given that reality, I don't think you can accurately evaluate the quality of the top-tier NWC and SCIAC teams based on advancement in the national tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 11, 2020, 06:48:04 PM
When Cass was a sophomore, planned to go to Swarthmore
But she changed her mind one day
Standin' on the turnpike, thumb out to hitchhike
"Take me to New York right away"
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2020, 05:27:35 PM
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And with that, the 2019-20 seasons have come to a sudden end.

What a week it has been in college basketball. Exactly a week ago, as we hit the air, the first signs that COVID-19 was going to impact the NCAA Tournaments was seen. Since then, it has been a whirlwind.  

Tonight on Hoopsville, we try and make sense of one of the stranger finishes in history for NCAA events. What started with isolated closings of gyms for games ends a week later in all games being called off through the rest of the academic year.

We will chat with those who were preparing for games on Friday and hear their reactions to the seasons coming to a close so quickly.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
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- John Krikorian, Christopher Newport men's coach
- Cheri Harrer, No. 9 Baldwin Wallace women's coach

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Monday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline

All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2020, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on March 10, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
It's also nice to see SCIAC advancing after three consecutive years of getting knocked out in the second round vs Whitman. I know these conferences aren't as deep as others, but the top end programs are absolutely national contenders

History has not demonstrated that to be true, especially for the SCIAC -- and keep in mind that the SCIAC has been part of D3 since the late '70s. No SCIAC team has ever reached the Final Four, and only the 2017 Whitman team has gotten that far from the NWC. The list of SCIAC and NWC teams that have reached the Elite Eight is not extensive, either:

1981 Whittier
2002 Lewis & Clark
2003 Occidental
2006 Puget Sound
2011 Whitworth
2017 Whitman
2018 Whitman

It would seem that the West Coast teams have made strides in the new millennium, seeing as how they've made six of the 20 Elite Eights played since Y2K. But their performance once they've reached that level has been dismal. The five teams listed above that have reached the Elite Eight but gone no further since 2000 each lost their Elite Eight game by double digits, and the average margin of defeat in those six games was 15 points.

No doubt about it, Whitman has been very solid over the past four seasons. But the 2017 Whitman team distorted what has been the actual record of NWC teams over the past two decades -- and the SCIAC's legacy is in fact far more dismal than the NWC's in the big dance.

As I have said on this string before, single elimination tournaments are a poor way to judge teams.  A team that has a 90% chance of winning every game against the team they are playing against, will win a 6 game tournament 54% of the time.  Add in the fact that when you get to the 3rd and 4th rounds, the West Coast teams are playing in the home gyms of good teams, there is very little chance to get to the Final 4.  I was at the 2011 Whitworth game against Wooster.  First of all, Wooster and WW had been the two teams that had been ranked #1 that year for the greatest amount of time and they were meeting in the Elite 8 game. They were equivalent to #1 seeds. They should have not played this round. Second, unbelievable homer job. That's not sour grapes, it was bad. To be expected to some degree, but still bad. The coach of the team Whitworth beat in the Sweet Sixteen said WW was the best DIII team he'd ever seen.  Some of the recent Whitman teams would rank up there with the WW 2011 team.  These teams are as good as anyone in the country, but a single elimination tournament with the road blocks the west coast teams face is not a fair way to judge the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2020, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2020, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: BluesBrother on March 10, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
It's also nice to see SCIAC advancing after three consecutive years of getting knocked out in the second round vs Whitman. I know these conferences aren't as deep as others, but the top end programs are absolutely national contenders

History has not demonstrated that to be true, especially for the SCIAC -- and keep in mind that the SCIAC has been part of D3 since the late '70s. No SCIAC team has ever reached the Final Four, and only the 2017 Whitman team has gotten that far from the NWC. The list of SCIAC and NWC teams that have reached the Elite Eight is not extensive, either:

1981 Whittier
2002 Lewis & Clark
2003 Occidental
2006 Puget Sound
2011 Whitworth
2017 Whitman
2018 Whitman

It would seem that the West Coast teams have made strides in the new millennium, seeing as how they've made six of the 20 Elite Eights played since Y2K. But their performance once they've reached that level has been dismal. The five teams listed above that have reached the Elite Eight but gone no further since 2000 each lost their Elite Eight game by double digits, and the average margin of defeat in those six games was 15 points.

No doubt about it, Whitman has been very solid over the past four seasons. But the 2017 Whitman team distorted what has been the actual record of NWC teams over the past two decades -- and the SCIAC's legacy is in fact far more dismal than the NWC's in the big dance.

As I have said on this string before, single elimination tournaments are a poor way to judge teams.

Not if you're talking about single-elimination tournaments over an extended period of time. The NWC has been participating in the D3 tourney for two decades now. The SCIAC has been at this for four decades. That's more than enough body of work to justify using the tourney as a gauge.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PMA team that has a 90% chance of winning every game against the team they are playing against, will win a 6 game tournament 54% of the time.

This isn't about winning the tournament, mind you. The original point that Blues Brother made was:

Quote from: BluesBrother on March 10, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
It's also nice to see SCIAC advancing after three consecutive years of getting knocked out in the second round vs Whitman. I know these conferences aren't as deep as others, but the top end programs are absolutely national contenders

"National contenders" is a significantly lower threshold than national champions ... and the two leagues' top-end programs still haven't measured up to "absolutely" status in the national-contenders category over their respective periods of time.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PMAdd in the fact that when you get to the 3rd and 4th rounds, the West Coast teams are playing in the home gyms of good teams,

Oh, come on. When you get to the sectional stage, everybody's a good team.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PMthere is very little chance to get to the Final 4.

Well, then, if there's very little chance to get to the Final Four, then you're not really an "absolute national contender," are you? After all, if you're not able to contend, how can you be a contender? ;)

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PMI was at the 2011 Whitworth game against Wooster.  First of all, Wooster and WW had been the two teams that had been ranked #1 that year for the greatest amount of time and they were meeting in the Elite 8 game. They were equivalent to #1 seeds. They should have not played this round.

Yeah? Well, welcome to our world here in the midwest, where every year it's the CCIW, the WIAC, the MIAC, and frequently Wash U as well duking it out as early as the second round (i.e., the first weekend). And that's to say nothing of up-and-comers like Nebraska Wesleyan and Loras joining the fray in recent years. Our part of the country is where the phrase "Bracket of Death" became a thing in D3 men's basketball. So, sorry if we don't have much patience for the woes you suffered from having to play one tough sectional semifinal game nine years ago.

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PMSecond, unbelievable homer job.

::)

Quote from: A Buc Forever on March 12, 2020, 05:37:53 PMThat's not sour grapes, it was bad. To be expected to some degree, but still bad. The coach of the team Whitworth beat in the Sweet Sixteen said WW was the best DIII team he'd ever seen.  Some of the recent Whitman teams would rank up there with the WW 2011 team.  These teams are as good as anyone in the country, but a single elimination tournament with the road blocks the west coast teams face is not a fair way to judge the conference.

Look, we all know that the teams in D3's geographic islands get a raw deal with the travel. But at the end of the day, are you going to pack that excuse in your travel bag and take it with you when you board the plane so that it's handy right where you need it when you lose, or are you going to suck it up and prove that you're an "absolute national contender" on at least a semi-regular basis? Because the record does not back up Blues Brother's statement. And that's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on March 17, 2020, 04:03:57 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2020, 12:09:26 AM
Look, we all know that the teams in D3's geographic islands get a raw deal with the travel. But at the end of the day, are you going to pack that excuse in your travel bag and take it with you when you board the plane so that it's handy right where you need it when you lose, or are you going to suck it up and prove that you're an "absolute national contender" on at least a semi-regular basis? Because the record does not back up Blues Brother's statement. And that's all I'm saying.

I agree about the travel. It's reality and something that can be dealt with.

But there's nothing you can do about a bracket that pits all three west coast teams against each other...only one can advance. It's still not worth complaining about, but I also think it's wrong to say the best teams in SCIAC and NWC aren't national contenders these days (note the present tense...). And that's one of many reasons why it's a shame this tournament got cut short -- it would have been fun to see if Whitworth and Pomona could have made deeper runs.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2020, 09:54:18 AM
In the present tense it makes more sense for the NWC, because the last few Whitman teams have definitely proven themselves on the big stage to be among the premier teams in D3. But the jury's still out on the SCIAC.

And I agree, that's one of the reasons why it's such a shame that the four concluding rounds of the tourney were canceled. Every tourney is a chance for the NWC to finally climb to the top, or for the SCIAC to really prove itself by cracking the Final Four for the first time ever.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: AlltheKINGSmen99 on April 15, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
Anyone know about Bridgeland accepting the Redlands job?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on April 15, 2020, 02:48:35 PM
Yikes...hope that's not true, but I think the Bridgelands have ties to SoCal so that could make sense.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 04:30:27 PM

It's widely assumed (although not confirmed) that Bridgeland was on the shortlist for the WashU job.  He's definitely pushed the Whitman athletic department to provide the resources he believes the team needs to compete for national titles.  With no inside information, I think it's safe to assume he'd be open to other opportunities.  I'm not sure Redlands is the direction I'd expect him to go, though.  That doesn't feel like career advancement to me.  I don't know how he feels about Amherst's opening, but I suspect, if Bridgeland leaves Walla Walla, it would be more for a program like that than the one at Redlands.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on April 15, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 04:30:27 PM
I don't know how he feels about Amherst's opening, but I suspect, if Bridgeland leaves Walla Walla, it would be more for a program like that than the one at Redlands.

For what it's worth I'd be shocked if Bridgeland went to a place like Amherst. I think Redlands would be a better fit in a few ways.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 05:21:27 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 04:30:27 PM

It's widely assumed (although not confirmed) that Bridgeland was on the shortlist for the WashU job.  He's definitely pushed the Whitman athletic department to provide the resources he believes the team needs to compete for national titles.  With no inside information, I think it's safe to assume he'd be open to other opportunities.  I'm not sure Redlands is the direction I'd expect him to go, though.  That doesn't feel like career advancement to me.  I don't know how he feels about Amherst's opening, but I suspect, if Bridgeland leaves Walla Walla, it would be more for a program like that than the one at Redlands.

Nevermind.

https://www.goredlands.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/releases/20200415no2d4i
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on April 15, 2020, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 05:21:27 PM
https://www.goredlands.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/releases/20200415no2d4i

Well shoot. Not a good time to be looking for a new head coach.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on April 15, 2020, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 05:21:27 PM
https://www.goredlands.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/releases/20200415no2d4i

Well shoot. Not a good time to be looking for a new head coach.

Good chance Whitman promotes the assistant there?  I've heard nothing but great things from lots of people about him.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on April 15, 2020, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: BluesBrother on April 15, 2020, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 15, 2020, 05:21:27 PM
https://www.goredlands.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/releases/20200415no2d4i

Well shoot. Not a good time to be looking for a new head coach.

Good chance Whitman promotes the assistant there?  I've heard nothing but great things from lots of people about him.

Well, the longtime assistant, Matt Airy, left a year ago to become the head coach at Aurora. He probably would have been an obvious choice. The other assistants are great, but don't have quite the same longevity/experience. I'd bet on a national search.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2020, 07:56:34 AM

My bad,  i was thinking of Jablonski, at Whitworth who did actually takeover. Wrong Whit and a year behind.  Embarsssing. I'm blaming quarantine brain.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on April 17, 2020, 04:20:37 PM
What Bridgeland did at Whitman is nothing short of a miracle. I grew up in Walla Walla and in the mid-80's they had a decent run with Coach Mastin's son and a couple of other studs who put on a good show.  Coach Mastin's style was unique to say the least but with talent and buy-in they had good results.  Aside from that stretch and maybe another relatively decent few years in the 90's Whitman basketball and team sports in general were terrible. 

The blame was always placed on the Board of Trustees hiring presidents who simply didn't value athletics.  Part of this was the culture of the school which was as far from a jock mentality as possible in the NW.  It will be interesting to see who Whitman hires to replace him.  I wonder if they will go with a person who has less of a force of personality. 

The move to Redlands is a surprise to me as that is a lateral transfer to a much more expensive part of the country.  Granted, my hometown is pretty isolated and it takes a certain person to want to stay there.  It will likely be easier to recruit players to Redlands as they don't have the academic standards of Whitman, have thousands of recruits within 3 hours (whereas Walla Walla had thousands of people within 3 hours!), maybe a lower cost, likely a better cultural fit for hoopers, and a lot less travel time during the season.

Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2020, 08:34:17 PM
Quote from: Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat on April 17, 2020, 04:20:37 PMThe move to Redlands is a surprise to me as that is a lateral transfer to a much more expensive part of the country.  Granted, my hometown is pretty isolated and it takes a certain person to want to stay there.  It will likely be easier to recruit players to Redlands as they don't have the academic standards of Whitman, have thousands of recruits within 3 hours (whereas Walla Walla had thousands of people within 3 hours!), maybe a lower cost, likely a better cultural fit for hoopers, and a lot less travel time during the season.

I would say that it is a strategic move by Eric Bridgeland to better place himself in a position to finally win the big one.

You mentioned the pitfalls of coaching at Whitman -- the remoteness of Walla Walla, WA; the cultural fit; etc. One thing that Whitman has in basketball terms that Redlands doesn't is a stronger conference, but it's certainly possible to get to the promised land (Fort Wayne, IN) from a league that doesn't have national muscle; Benedictine and Nebraska Wesleyan have proved that in recent years (and in NWU's case, it's actually lifted up the rep of its league as a whole). Granted, I don't know all of the ins and outs of Redlands with regard to the school's financial health, its campus culture, its facilities, etc. But from what I know, the pluses of Redlands seem to outweigh the minuses by far, and that's why I don't really think it's a lateral move. Rather, I think it's a step forward for a coach who wants so badly to snip a piece of net after the last game of the D3 basketball season and who has the recruiting chops to make it happen. For years I've thought that, sooner or later, some SCIAC coach would figure out how to assemble a top-notch D3 team in an area of the country where there are 25 million people within 200 miles of campus, especially since greater L.A. and the Inland Empire are so underserved in terms of small-college basketball schools. College basketball is all about recruiting, and if there's one thing that Eric Bridgeland has proved it's that he can recruit like nobody's business.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpringSt7 on April 17, 2020, 09:30:46 PM
Ironically enough it felt like at times that the best thing keeping Pomona or Claremont McKenna from making it out of the first weekend and giving themselves a shot at Salem was having to play Whitman in the second round. Despite the fact that Bridgeland is now moving to their conference, I think it will actually help the whole league much in the way that Benedictine and NWU have. This is a plus for the SCIAC in my book.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2020, 11:36:29 PM
Doesn't the SCIAC basically have the same NCAA tournament travel problems that the NWC has?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 18, 2020, 01:54:52 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2020, 11:36:29 PM
Doesn't the SCIAC basically have the same NCAA tournament travel problems that the NWC has?

It's an obstacle. Lots of schools have obstacles. It's certainly not an insurmountable one.

It really just comes down to the two sectional rounds. That's where a premier team from the West Coast is at a disadvantage, because those are the only two rounds in which that team is likely to have to get on a plane while comparable teams won't. But lots and lots of teams have won sectionals on the road before. Look no further than last year, in which two of the four sectionals were won by road teams. And in both instances, the sectional winner knocked off the sectional host; Wheaton beat Augustana in the round of sixteen at Augie's gym, 93-79, and Christopher Newport beat Hamilton on the Conts' home floor, 75-67, also in the round of sixteen.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2020, 02:36:07 PM
Ok, it just seemed like you were implying he might have a better chance to make the Final Four going to Redlands in the SCIAC than staying with Whitman in the NWC because of the conference move, like they don't have the same travel obstacles. That's all. Maybe I read that wrong, but that was my impression. I suppose you're saying he'll have better recruiting tools because of the location, but he seemed to do fine up north too, both at UPS and Whitman.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 18, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
No, it has nothing at all to do with the travel obstacles. That's not what I was saying. After all, West Coast is West Coast. But Redlands, CA is a better base than Walla Walla, WA if you're trying to build a national championship program, for the reason I already stated: Redlands, CA is located in one of the most densely-populated areas of the country (and one with relatively few small-college basketball programs, as well), while Walla Walla, WA is located in a very sparsely-populated region.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2020, 02:36:07 PMI suppose you're saying he'll have better recruiting tools because of the location, but he seemed to do fine up north too, both at UPS and Whitman.

... which is proof positive of what a good recruiter he is. Now he'll get the chance to use those skills in a much more fertile locale.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 18, 2020, 03:40:30 PM
From what I've been told by some "off air" ... Bridgeland has been stealing recruits from the SCIAC for years especially from California. Now he is in the same area and able to keep them now at Redlands. If he can continue his good recruiting at Redlands, the SCIAC is going to lose recruits to their own.

SCIAC has also been changing recruiting rules and that now benefits Bridgeland.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 18, 2020, 04:49:58 PM

You also have to look at scheduling.  It's much cheaper to fly out of LA airports than Walla Walla if you want to put an east coast tournament on the schedule.  It's also easier (and cheaper) to convince teams to travel into sunny SoCal than Walla Walla in the winter.

Not that those were necessarily considerations, but they are facts in favor of this being an easier place to set a team up for national success.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: old_hooper on April 18, 2020, 07:39:40 PM
The SCIAC has always had to compete for players with the GSAC one of the better NAIA conferences in the country.  Few years back a number of members went D2.  What doesn't change all of those schools will continue to battle for same recruits in SoCal where they can offer help with partial scholarships.  Bridgeland did a good job recruiting kids from CA to the northwest.  He has left D3 programs in better shape then when he took them over.  It will be fun to watch his impact on the Redlands program and competing at the national level that he did at Whitman.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 19, 2020, 04:12:05 PM
Quote from: old_hooper on April 18, 2020, 07:39:40 PM
The SCIAC has always had to compete for players with the GSAC one of the better NAIA conferences in the country.  Few years back a number of members went D2.  What doesn't change all of those schools will continue to battle for same recruits in SoCal where they can offer help with partial scholarships.

Again, though, we're talking about a situation in which there are 25 million people within 200 miles of the Redlands campus. Competing with the GSAC is not a big deal, because there's so much talent to go around in southern California. As I said, it's an underserved area if you look at the number of high school basketball players per small-college basketball institutions in SoCal. That ratio is much larger in terms of players to schools than it is within the 200-mile radius of Chicagoland or metro NYC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 19, 2020, 06:22:06 PM
No offense to the SCIAC then, but shouldn't the conference be a lot better nationally?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpringSt7 on April 19, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
That would go back to my point of Pomona and Claremont McKenna constantly being beaten out in the second round by Whitman (or Whitworth). I think there is an argument to be made that it is already better nationally, we just don't know it yet. Pomona made it to the Sweet 16 this year, getting to see them play Elmhurst in the Sweet 16 would have been a great litmus test for the conference.

On the other hand, I think there is definitely a case to be made that the combination of the academic strength of the top of the league and the location for really the whole should yield better results. West of WashU and UChicago, are there better D3 schools than Pomona and Claremont McKenna? That, plus the population density that has been noted in here already, should probably bring better results. But it has been tough the last 5+ years with arguably the most successful program in the country knocking on your door every year in the second round.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 19, 2020, 09:32:07 PM
Quote from: SpringSt7 on April 19, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
That would go back to my point of Pomona and Claremont McKenna constantly being beaten out in the second round by Whitman (or Whitworth). I think there is an argument to be made that it is already better nationally, we just don't know it yet. Pomona made it to the Sweet 16 this year, getting to see them play Elmhurst in the Sweet 16 would have been a great litmus test for the conference.

On the other hand, I think there is definitely a case to be made that the combination of the academic strength of the top of the league and the location for really the whole should yield better results. West of WashU and UChicago, are there better D3 schools than Pomona and Claremont McKenna? That, plus the population density that has been noted in here already, should probably bring better results. But it has been tough the last 5+ years with arguably the most successful program in the country knocking on your door every year in the second round.

Are you contradicting yourself by saying Whitman or Whitworth has been that successful program, even though they should already be at a disadvantage because of location? On one hand, it's being said that Pomona and Claremont should be better because of the location, but then they'd be better if it wasn't for Whitman/Whitworth? Is it coaching then? Does one school care more about athletics and the basketball program more than another school? Are you saying now that the school with the location advantage finally has the coach that cares more?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpringSt7 on April 19, 2020, 11:05:03 PM
I would say I'm being the middle man. In short, Pomona and Claremont are probably better than we already give them credit, but not as good as they should or could be.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: SpringSt7 on April 19, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
That would go back to my point of Pomona and Claremont McKenna

It's actually Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (https://www.cmsathletics.org/landing/index). The five undergraduate colleges within the Claremont Colleges consortium are divided into two entities for athletics purposes. Pomona College and Pitzer College are paired together as Pomona-Pitzer, and Claremont McKenna College, Harvey Mudd College, and Scripps College combine as Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. The student-athlete population of CMS's men's teams is roughly 90% Claremont McKenna students and 10% Mudd students in most sports, except cross-country, which is mostly Mudd students, and track & field, which has a roughly equal split between the two colleges. (Scripps is all-female, BTW, so the Athenas have an interesting three-way mix in their rosters that the Stags don't.)

Quote from: SpringSt7 on April 19, 2020, 07:54:46 PMconstantly being beaten out in the second round by Whitman (or Whitworth). I think there is an argument to be made that it is already better nationally, we just don't know it yet. Pomona made it to the Sweet 16 this year, getting to see them play Elmhurst in the Sweet 16 would have been a great litmus test for the conference.

It's hard to make that argument without any evidence for it. I, too, was looking forward to seeing Elmhurst and Pomona-Pitzer square off; that would've been a golden opportunity for the Sagehens to prove their bona-fides.

Quote from: SpringSt7 on April 19, 2020, 07:54:46 PMOn the other hand, I think there is definitely a case to be made that the combination of the academic strength of the top of the league and the location for really the whole should yield better results. West of WashU and UChicago, are there better D3 schools than Pomona and Claremont McKenna? That, plus the population density that has been noted in here already, should probably bring better results. But it has been tough the last 5+ years with arguably the most successful program in the country knocking on your door every year in the second round.

It goes back long before the past five-plus years, though. The SCIAC has been a part of D3 men's basketball since its inception back in the mid-'70s -- an era so lost to the mists of time that it was Whittier, of all programs, that was the conference powerhouse back then in this sport -- and yet, as I said here a month ago, the league has never reached the Final Four in those four and a half decades. And only twice (Whittier in 1981 and Occidental in 2003) has it gotten as far as the Elite Eight. So it can only be said that, at best, Bridgeland-era Whitman has been the insurmountable obstacle that has kept the SCIAC from the realms of glory for a fraction of the league's tenure in D3.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: old_hooper on April 20, 2020, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 18, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
No, it has nothing at all to do with the travel obstacles. That's not what I was saying. After all, West Coast is West Coast. But Redlands, CA is a better base than Walla Walla, WA if you're trying to build a national championship program, for the reason I already stated: Redlands, CA is located in one of the most densely-populated areas of the country (and one with relatively few small-college basketball programs, as well), while Walla Walla, WA is located in a very sparsely-populated region.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2020, 02:36:07 PMI suppose you're saying he'll have better recruiting tools because of the location, but he seemed to do fine up north too, both at UPS and Whitman.

... which is proof positive of what a good recruiter he is. Now he'll get the chance to use those skills in a much more fertile locale.

Must bring up the GSAC again.  If it doesn't matter, how can one explain the SCIAC has not made an appearance in a final four since its existance.  The GSAC since 2003 to 2019 has been in the national championship game 8 times.  The brain trust of the SCIAC should find answers.  I agree that the SCIAC has a tremendous opportunity but it has not happened.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2020, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: old_hooper on April 20, 2020, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 18, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
No, it has nothing at all to do with the travel obstacles. That's not what I was saying. After all, West Coast is West Coast. But Redlands, CA is a better base than Walla Walla, WA if you're trying to build a national championship program, for the reason I already stated: Redlands, CA is located in one of the most densely-populated areas of the country (and one with relatively few small-college basketball programs, as well), while Walla Walla, WA is located in a very sparsely-populated region.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2020, 02:36:07 PMI suppose you're saying he'll have better recruiting tools because of the location, but he seemed to do fine up north too, both at UPS and Whitman.

... which is proof positive of what a good recruiter he is. Now he'll get the chance to use those skills in a much more fertile locale.

Must bring up the GSAC again.  If it doesn't matter, how can one explain the SCIAC has not made an appearance in a final four since its existance.  The GSAC since 2003 to 2019 has been in the national championship game 8 times.

Correlation is not causation. Besides, the SCIAC has been competing in the D3 men's basketball tournament since its inception in 1975. What excuse are you going to use for the 1975-2002 era?

I'm not trying to explain why the SCIAC falls short of fielding nationally-successful teams. I'm merely reporting the facts. But, again, the population of southern California is waaaaay too big to blame the SCIAC's inability to forge competitive teams in March upon one local NAIA league. Other D3 leagues thrive and have national success in areas of the country that have far fewer people, and even more competition from local D2 and NAIA leagues, than the SCIAC has in its back yard.

Quote from: old_hooper on April 20, 2020, 07:12:36 PMThe brain trust of the SCIAC should find answers.  I agree that the SCIAC has a tremendous opportunity but it has not happened.

Well, we agree about that much, at least.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 20, 2020, 11:35:26 PM
From what I've been told - and I need to do a lot more research and ask around - but the SCIAC is changing it's recruiting rules that could make a difference. I know things I had been told was the conference didn't allow recruiting off campus nor home visits. That stuff has changed in the last few years and I think we are seeing that in more competitive SCIAC teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on April 21, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
Rumor has it that Bridgeland may be taking a few players with him including Duckett.  Will see soon enough I guess.  It will be interesting to see where Whitman lands this season, and the impact on the rest of the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 15, 2020, 04:36:14 PM
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With the number of significant retirements on the men's side of Division III basketball, there is plenty to talk about in the month of May. Thus, we needed a "Part 2" this month.

On this "Hoopsville Podcast: May Edition (Part 2)", we talk about what is arguably one of the most significant retirement classes of coaches in the history of Division III - especially on the men's side of things.

Pat Coleman, Ryan Scott, and Bob Quillman join Dave McHugh to chat about those who retired, the number of wins and the high-level of success they had, and even if trying to have a Mt. Rushmore of DIII coaching who might be considered (some coaches you may have forgotten about are mentioned).

Plus - if not for the number of significant retirements, the biggest news in Division III off-season so far would likely be Eric Bridgeland picking up and moving to Southern California. Bridgeland joins Dave to talk about his Whitman program, the success, and the decision to start anew at Redlands and the SCIAC.

You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/2zGESua

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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on May 16, 2020, 06:12:45 PM
Linfield hosts Illinois Wesleyan on December 29 - https://golinfieldwildcats.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2020-21.

The Titans will also face George Fox on this trip to Oregon.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on May 21, 2020, 03:09:50 PM
Whitman's new coach: https://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2020/5/21/john-lamanna-hired-as-whitman-mens-basketball-coach.aspx (https://athletics.whitman.edu/news/2020/5/21/john-lamanna-hired-as-whitman-mens-basketball-coach.aspx)
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 10, 2020, 05:09:07 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=ev7hd/sv26ba99wwms5530.jpg)

The off season has hit August and with it has come news of Division III Fall Championships being canceled for the same reason Winter Championships were derailed and Spring Championships pulled earlier this year: COVID 19 Pandemic.

The decision came on the heals of a vast majority of DIII institutions curtailing fall sports and many pushing winter sports starts on their campuses until January at the earliest.

What does this mean for the 2020-21 season of college basketball? Specifically what does it mean for Division III? Will there be a basketball season? Will it be a six-week-or-so-sprint? Or is there a way to adjust things?

On the Mid-Summer edition of the Hoopsville Podcast, we try and get some answers to those questions. We talk to one coach who actually has put together a proposal to start the season in January, with some changes to make it work including crowning a champion in April. And we talk to an administrator who also serves on the DIII Management Council to better under stand the decisions made to cancel championships and if shift a season like basketball is even possible.

Plus, we honor the best of the best in the last decade of Division III women's basketball. Gordon Mann joins us to discuss how the 2nd D3hoops.com Women's All-Decade came together (and hints of work on the men's list).

Guests include:
- Philip Ponder, Oglethorpe men's coach
- Jason Fein, Bates Athletics Director and DIII Management Council member
- Gordon Mann, D3hoops.com Senior Editor

And of course, there is always the Hoopsville Notebook. A few things we take note of that have made headlines since the beginning of July. We also tip our hat to a few of those who have always helped the show be it's best.

You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3kGZ962

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline. The offseason plan is to do a podcast each month. The shows will be audio-only leading up to the start of the 2020-21 when we will restart the video shows.

If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
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We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
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Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 14, 2020, 09:29:19 AM

Just noticed Darne Duckett a conspicuous absence from the Whitman posted roster.  We're going to see a lot of these around the country this year.  Anyone know if he's taking a year off or has called it career?  With how young the team is, maybe waiting a season to finish his career is a smart move.  I guess he could've transferred, but that's less likely for a senior.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: gofords on October 14, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 14, 2020, 09:29:19 AM

Just noticed Darne Duckett a conspicuous absence from the Whitman posted roster.  We're going to see a lot of these around the country this year.  Anyone know if he's taking a year off or has called it career?  With how young the team is, maybe waiting a season to finish his career is a smart move.  I guess he could've transferred, but that's less likely for a senior.

He was announced with the Redlands class along with 2 or three other Whitman guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 15, 2020, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: gofords on October 14, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 14, 2020, 09:29:19 AM

Just noticed Darne Duckett a conspicuous absence from the Whitman posted roster.  We're going to see a lot of these around the country this year.  Anyone know if he's taking a year off or has called it career?  With how young the team is, maybe waiting a season to finish his career is a smart move.  I guess he could've transferred, but that's less likely for a senior.

He was announced with the Redlands class along with 2 or three other Whitman guys.

I did look on their site, but I guess I missed the announcement.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 15, 2020, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 15, 2020, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: gofords on October 14, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 14, 2020, 09:29:19 AM

Just noticed Darne Duckett a conspicuous absence from the Whitman posted roster.  We're going to see a lot of these around the country this year.  Anyone know if he's taking a year off or has called it career?  With how young the team is, maybe waiting a season to finish his career is a smart move.  I guess he could've transferred, but that's less likely for a senior.

He was announced with the Redlands class along with 2 or three other Whitman guys.

I did look on their site, but I guess I missed the announcement.

I was told not to be surprised if a few Whitman guys ended up at Redlands ... I thought I told you that offline.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on October 16, 2020, 12:59:37 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on April 21, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
Rumor has it that Bridgeland may be taking a few players with him including Duckett.  Will see soon enough I guess.  It will be interesting to see where Whitman lands this season, and the impact on the rest of the conference.

And I stated as much back in April  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: jaybird44 on October 29, 2020, 07:23:01 PM
Hello friends!

It seems that I have been the only member of the only (unofficial) fall sport at WashU, with my 100-mile ultramarathon attempt earlier this month to promote the fight for a cure during Rett Syndrome Awareness Month.  That attempt fell a bit short in miles and fundraising, so I'm going into overtime to try and reach $5,000 in donations.

Rett Gets Rocked 50K for $5K will commence Friday, October 30 at 8 pm Central, and end at 8 am Halloween morning.  Counting donations received (thanks to retired WashU men's basketball coach Mark Edwards and his wife Mary, and to Mike McGrath and his  University of Chicago men's basketball program for their donations!) and those yet to be sent and processed, I am at $4,440.53.  Very, very close to my goal...which will fund a researcher's work for a month.  Wouldn't it be cool if he or she cracked the code for a cure of Rett syndrome, on our dime?!

I reached 86 miles in my "Rett Gets Rocked Virtual Ultra Weekend" October 3-4.  I'm very proud of that result, but there's more work to be done.  Proceeds from the event will be split between Rettsyndrome.org (the only national organization spearheading research and providing resources for affected patients and their families) and the Rett Spectrum Clinic--a collaboration between the WashU School of Medicine and St. Louis Children's Hospital.

Rett syndrome is a rare, non-inherited neurological disorder that is caused by a gene mutation in the brain.  Rett strikes typically when a child is 6-18 months old, and it has the characteristics of ALS, autism, epilepsy, and Parkinson's...all rolled into one sinister disorder.
It takes away the child's ability to move and communicate.  Most of them end up in wheelchairs with active minds, but mired in the physical rubble that Rett creates.  And, the neurological damage prevents verbal communication and arm and hand movement for sign language.

In essence, Rett does to a child what Lucy in the "Peanuts" comic strip does to Charlie Brown when he tries to kick the football that she is holding.  The only difference is that Charlie Brown can get back up to try again.  Those who are afflicted with Rett syndrome don't get another chance to enjoy a vibrant life.

Researchers are working to re-engineer the gene mutation that turns on Rett, so it can be forever turned off.  Four drug therapies are in the FDA review pipeline, with one (trofanitide) one level away from review.  And, iPad tablets with retinal scan technology are giving those with Rett a voice they haven't had since they were toddlers.

The full court press on Rett is paying off.  You can help keep the pressure on Rett, by going to my Rett Racers donation page:  https://rettracer.everydayhero.com/us/rett-gets-rocked-2020

Thanks for your time and consideration, and let's hope that we get back to playing and broadcasting sports much sooner than later!

Jay Murry
Play-By-Play Announcer, Washington University in St. Louis
Event Director, Rett Gets Rocked 50K for $5K
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BluesBrother on January 22, 2021, 02:42:23 PM
The Blues are back in action tonight vs PLU: https://portal.stretchinternet.com/whitman/ (https://portal.stretchinternet.com/whitman/)

The John Lamanna era features a slimmed down roster with only three returners (Weston Crump, Kanoa Johnson, and Carlos Angel), and only Crump has played significant minutes in the past. Interesting to see Bryce Mulder listed as a "Student Assistant Coach" and not showing on the roster. Is he not playing this year? Roster: https://athletics.whitman.edu/sports/mens-basketball/roster (https://athletics.whitman.edu/sports/mens-basketball/roster)

There are some intriguing new faces, including a couple transfers from JCs in CA.

Here's hoping everyone stays healthy and we get a fun NWC season!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2021, 07:18:06 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=npmg3/t0vp4323yzpeajt8.jpg)

The Division III basketball season technically started nearly three months ago, but it has taken until the end of January for it to start feeling like the season is really underway. Even so, only about a quarter of the division has played just a single game. Another quarter of the division will never take to the court. And in between is wide gulf of different options.

On the first video-version of Hoopsville this season, Dave McHugh is joined by much of the D3hoops.com crew, Pat Coleman and Ryan Scott, to react to what has been one of the more unique seasons ... to say it lightly.

We react to the challenges schools are facing, what coaches are grappling with on a daily basis - especially beyond games and practices, and why schools are making so many different decisions.

We also discuss what is likely the future of this season's NCAA Championship Tournaments and, more importantly, when the decision on those tournaments will be made.

Plus, will there be a Top 25? No. Well, yes. Kind of. Tune in to learn more on what's coming. Plus a lot more including Dave spinning off Pat's thoughts on those wishing to attend games.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show by clicking on the video player above. Or you can listen to the podcast available on any of the service options in the right panel.

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options to the right.

You can WATCH the show or listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3oASGKl or https://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2020-21/january

Hoopsville broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville


 
   
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We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3sports.com
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Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2021, 07:45:37 PM
DIII Championships are official canceled: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2021/02/committee-decides-championships-fate
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 20, 2021, 04:29:27 PM
My interview with Whitworth coach Damion Jablonski...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt_Qyt2s54o&t=2157s

0:00​ Playing Through a Pandemic
5:00​ March Madness/Go Zags
6:52​ Whitworth 2020-21 Season
13:18​ Support from Former Whitworth President Beck Taylor
15:40​ Damion's Unique Road to Coaching & Division III Basketball
27:00​ Whitworth and the NWC
29:00​ Building an NCAA Tourney Resume
31:45​ 2019-20 Whitworth NCAA Tourney Run
34:30​ Cancellation of the 2020 NCAA Tournament
40:00​ Division III Brand in the Pac NW/Recruiting to Whitworth
42:54​ Thoughts on Division III After 10 Years
44:55​ Whitworth 2021-22 Expectations
49:30​ Final Thoughts
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on May 18, 2021, 04:19:01 PM
My conversation with Chad Murray, Head MBB Coach at Pacific Lutheran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrosq0d1e9c

0:00 Getting through the pandemic
5:25 Recruiting and the coaching calendar
12:45 Building process at PLU
24:35 2020-21 season, D3hoops.com Top 15
29:00 Learnings as a first time head coach at Cornell (IA)
36:43 Working under Todd Raridon; North Central & the CCIW
49:21 2020-21 roster and returners
54:25 The NWC
59:20 Next steps in the PLU building process
1:02:25 Final thoughts
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 23, 2022, 11:44:38 AM
So the Whitworth men just won 6 games in 9 days.  I have to assume that is a rare feat indeed.  Can anyone find a situation like that in recent history?  I know the Whitman women just won 4 games in 5 days, that has to be rare as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 27, 2022, 11:47:09 AM
Today on Hoopsville - we are once again hitting the air at 1:00 PM ET.

(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=6dmac/jtwpsl5ygo0p9rya.jpg)

We will try and due justice to the crazy night that was in DIII basketball. We will look back at the results from Wednesday night in men's and women's play.

Plus we continue to chat with some teams that are flying a bit under the radar. Guests include:
Tune into the show here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/jan27 - an On Demand version and a podcast are available after the show gets off the air.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 09, 2022, 12:54:04 AM
I watch my first LINFIELD game of the season and they give it up on a 3 to PU.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2022, 03:55:10 PM
Week 2 Regional Rankings - which are ranked now: https://d3hoops.com/notables/2022/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Riley Zayas on March 04, 2022, 09:29:26 AM
After its NWC title victory, Whitworth comes in confident, battling Trinity today...read about all 4 teams set to tip off this afternoon/evening in the Lone Star State!

https://truetothecru.com/2022/03/03/previewing-the-belton-pod-umhb-mens-hoops-hosts-opening-rounds-of-ncaa-tournament/
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on October 14, 2022, 03:48:08 PM
First practice tomorrow morning.  Let's get the season rolling !  Go Bucs !
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Riley Zayas on October 15, 2022, 02:08:46 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on October 14, 2022, 03:48:08 PM
First practice tomorrow morning.  Let's get the season rolling !  Go Bucs !

Glad to have #d3hoops back!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on January 19, 2023, 11:09:27 AM
Wow - All Quiet On the Western Front !
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2023, 09:06:44 AM
Looks like another year of just getting one bid. Whitworth or Whitman?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: 89Pirate on February 20, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
I agree, I don't see a 2nd one coming from the NWC.  My assumption is that the Conference Champ game will be the Battle of the Whits part 3 - and then who knows from there.  The Bucs have had odd struggles this year, IMO it is the overall youth and lack of depth at the true PG position. However, I am excited for the future, lots of really great guys coming up in the program.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 06, 2023, 02:12:07 PM
Bizarre situation at Linfield, where Shanan Rosenberg may be out as head coach:

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/03/linfield-universitys-abrupt-suspension-of-mens-basketball-teams-coach-rose-draws-rebukes-from-players-parents-and-alumni.html
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2023, 08:40:55 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on March 06, 2023, 02:12:07 PM
Bizarre situation at Linfield, where Shanan Rosenberg may be out as head coach:

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/03/linfield-universitys-abrupt-suspension-of-mens-basketball-teams-coach-rose-draws-rebukes-from-players-parents-and-alumni.html
Paywall! Sorry, I could not read it.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 07, 2023, 08:53:26 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2023, 08:40:55 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on March 06, 2023, 02:12:07 PM
Bizarre situation at Linfield, where Shanan Rosenberg may be out as head coach:

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/03/linfield-universitys-abrupt-suspension-of-mens-basketball-teams-coach-rose-draws-rebukes-from-players-parents-and-alumni.html
Paywall! Sorry, I could not read it.

Odd, I didn't have any issue (and there's not much there tbh).  Try an incognito window?
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on March 08, 2023, 08:06:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2023, 08:40:55 AM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on March 06, 2023, 02:12:07 PM
Bizarre situation at Linfield, where Shanan Rosenberg may be out as head coach:

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/03/linfield-universitys-abrupt-suspension-of-mens-basketball-teams-coach-rose-draws-rebukes-from-players-parents-and-alumni.html
Paywall! Sorry, I could not read it.

Here's the part of the article with the facts of what happened, such as they are. Again, the whole thing is just very weird:

Quote
During a Feb. 18 game against Whitman College, Rosenberg responded to a parent in the stands who was shouting, "Put the seniors in! Put the seniors in!" in the final minute of the team's final game of the season.

According to other parents sitting behind the team's bench, the coach turned back and said something like, "Look, if you want to talk to me, talk to me after the game."

Some people apparently interpreted Rosenberg's retort as a threat, while others attending the game said he appeared to make clear that he wasn't going to deal with the criticism during the game. The team's senior night had been held during a prior Linfield game.

According to Linfield University's Scott Nelson, an associate vice president for communications, a fan's video of the Feb. 18 game showed an "angry confrontation" that lasted more than a minute where Rosenberg, at one point, is "gesturing angrily into the crowd" and yelled, "come outside after the game, sir. Let's have some words then." Nelson said one of the team's players put a hand on the coach's arm, "apparently attempting to defuse the situation."

Two days later, on Feb. 20, Rosenberg sent a text message to some parents, alerting he'd been suspended and couldn't talk further about it.

Players and some parents said they tried to talk directly to the university's athletic director that week, but the director told them it was a personnel matter he couldn't discuss.

Several parents and some of the players, trailed by two campus security officers, then went to campus on Feb. 24 to try to speak with university President Miles K. Davis, who was in a board meeting. Davis ultimately emerged from the board session and met with the group in a room for about 45 minutes, and they pleaded with him to read a stack of letters of support for the coach and explanations from witnesses of what happened.

Earlier that same day, Rosenberg was brought into a meeting with the university's human resources interim manager and the athletic director and told he'd be fired on the spot or could take 21 days to consider a proposed severance agreement, according to his lawyer, Crispin.

At 12:25 p.m. that day, the athletic director emailed the basketball team, telling members that the coach's suspension was "still in place until we have a resolution," and said he couldn't share any more information.

"It's a sad situation that seems to have been taken abruptly with very little warning," Crispin said. "Certainly, from our perspective, it was not well thought-out. He's at a loss at what happened and why. We're seeing what action may be available."
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: swoosh on March 10, 2023, 01:00:55 PM
The notion that a highly successful coach would be let go on the basis of a 10-20 second (non-profane) back and forth with a parent is ludicrous. The fact that Linfield's leadership can't point to a documented "pattern of behavior" here is the smoking gun = this is about the AD's pettiness and ego, and nothing else.

Gathering from multiple stories, the Linfield leadership are telling on themselves in how they're treating coach Rosenberg. First, an update indicated the coach is prepared to file a damages suit in excess of $2 million against the school if they don't reinstate him:
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2023/03/linfields-suspended-basketball-coach-tells-university-hell-sue-if-he-cant-get-his-job-back.html

There are some remarkable allegations here, including that the school's president made efforts to "fabricate" racial bias allegations against the coach as a pretense for justifying his firing, since the school can't appear to cite any previous conduct issues.

This is not the first time the Linfield's leadership has fired staff/faculty on legally dubious grounds, as they're currently on the hook for over $1 million to a former professor who was fired without cause: https://www.thefire.org/news/update-linfield-university-will-pay-professor-more-1-million-after-firing-him-criticizing

The article above points out that the president and other University staff were foolish enough to give interviews that clearly demonstrated they didn't understand tenure or "cause" at all, and effectively fired the professor for speaking out against a former trustee who faces 8 criminal counts of sexual abuse against a student.

It seems clear the same is happening to coach Rose. The school's own newspaper probably has the most compelling detail on the whole affair:
https://thelinfieldreview.com/32432/sports/coach-rosenberg-suspended-after-altercation-during-season-finale/

The squirrelly behavior of the AD as described in the school newspaper article appears to validate the theory that this is personal grudge vs. a personnel decision. The exodus of so many staff from Linfield athletics (particularly women) is also worth noting, and is certainly a vote for the AD's toxicity.

All in all, I think it's clear a change in leadership is needed at Linfield... but not in the basketball program.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Jack Parkman on March 10, 2023, 01:26:39 PM
Saying that players do not choose a school because of the coach is wildly irresponsible. I would think a very large percentage of the reason a player chooses a school is due to the coach.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: criswyly on March 13, 2023, 06:10:58 PM
Something is not right here.  Jack is right.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on April 22, 2023, 12:14:00 PM
Change (finally) in Salem, with Kip Ioane out after 14 years and a record of 85-243 overall, 49-163 in the NWC. Willamette hasn't issued a statement, but it looks like Kip tweeted about it last week:

https://twitter.com/KipIoane/status/1646308852164620288

Longtime local sportscaster Mark Gilman also has a brief writeup about it on his Substack:

https://markgilman.substack.com/p/bits-and-pieces-mid-april-edition

I have never bought the excuse that Willamette's academic standards mean we can't field a competitive men's basketball team--especially when Whitman, UPS, and Lewis & Clark manage to do just that every year. I don't think anybody expects the Bearcats to compete for national titles the way we did in the 90s, but there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to have a team that consistently finishes in the top half of the NWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: catmac567 on April 22, 2023, 02:25:33 PM
Linfield has named Levi Sieg as the next men's basketball coach.  He has been a member of the Claremont-Mudd-Scripps coaching staff for the past 15 years.  He is a native of Monmouth, Oregon and graduated from Claremont McKenna College in 2000.

He is coming into a difficult situation at Linfield, trying to heal a program after a very nasty termination of Coach Rosenberg. I wish him well, but I hope he knows what he is getting into.  I would not work for either President Miles Davis or Athletic Director Garry Killgore.  I think both of them should be fired.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bearcat Press on May 25, 2023, 08:18:39 PM
Quote from: Bearcat Press on April 22, 2023, 12:14:00 PM
Change (finally) in Salem, with Kip Ioane out after 14 years and a record of 85-243 overall, 49-163 in the NWC. Willamette hasn't issued a statement, but it looks like Kip tweeted about it last week:

https://twitter.com/KipIoane/status/1646308852164620288

Longtime local sportscaster Mark Gilman also has a brief writeup about it on his Substack:

https://markgilman.substack.com/p/bits-and-pieces-mid-april-edition

I have never bought the excuse that Willamette's academic standards mean we can't field a competitive men's basketball team--especially when Whitman, UPS, and Lewis & Clark manage to do just that every year. I don't think anybody expects the Bearcats to compete for national titles the way we did in the 90s, but there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to have a team that consistently finishes in the top half of the NWC.

And 30 days later, Willamette announces Bard head coach Michael Lenahan as the new hire:

https://wubearcats.com/sports/mbkb/2022-23/releases/20230519mo8jvs

Before spending the last two years at Bard, Coach Lenahan was a Bridgeland assistant at both Whitman and Redlands, sandwiched around a stint at UC-Irvine.  Here's hoping he can get Bearcat Hoop back on track!
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 16, 2023, 02:52:32 PM
https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1669542612280414208?t=1a4xmltL2TnqdAPVtQof5g&s=19

Xzavier Lino from Whitman transferring to UMass Lowell.
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 06, 2023, 07:03:24 PM
https://athletics.whitman.edu/sports/mens-basketball/roster/2023-2024

Three guys missing from the initial 2023-2024 are Walter Lum, Murphy Caffo and Nikola Trifunavoc

Update
I've been told Walter and Nikola both graduated. Good luck to them. 
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: BoxerBuzz on February 21, 2024, 01:07:43 PM
NWC Tournament Preview

https://whitworthpirates.com/news/2024/2/19/mens-basketball-whitworth-set-to-host-2024-nwc-mens-basketball-tournament.aspx
Title: Re: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2024, 02:07:21 PM
Thank you!