NESCAC

Started by LaPaz, September 11, 2011, 05:54:52 PM

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frank uible

My assessment is that Russo is so fair, decent, knowledgeable and effective that he will inspire even the selfish to cooperate - but probably you have more or better info than I.

PaulNewman

1.  Amherst -- Too strong and motivation will be consistently high with bitterly disappointing ends to last 2 seasons
2.  Middlebury -- Strong young talent matured with team that was close to breaking through last year
3.  Tufts -- Very talented team will fluctuate between some strong results and a couple of letdown moments
4.  Williams -- Good team but luck will go the other way this year as pressure of Russo's swan song works against them (or they will win league and bow out early in NCAAs, unless of course they beat Brandeis and Amherst back-to-back for 3rd year in a row)
5.  Wesleyan -- Not quite as strong and will fight and claw to be in the mix for the last NESCAC NCAA bid
6.  Conn College -- Good enough to fight for mid-stable spot but still not strong enough to break through into top 3
7.  Bowdoin -- Rebuilding but still good enough for favorable results against the bottom 4
8.  Trinity -- Difficult year and a step back after nearly breaking through prior couple of years (basically Conn College and Trinity reversing traditional roles)
9.  Hamilton -- Most unknown and toughest to gauge and maybe most likely for modest upside surprise
10. Bates -- Not good, but slightly more determined than Colby to pull out a couple of results
11. Colby -- Nice kids but roster is weak and not much reason to expect improvement in first year after coaching legend moves on

In terms of teams who may spoil another NESCAC entry in the final four, watch out for SLU this year.  Also Rochester, Hobart, Brandeis, maybe Union, and my sleeper is Wheaton.

LaPaz

Frank-Agreed..

NCAC- As far as teams to surprise Nescac's, those 4 teams you have listed would have no chance in the NCAA's aganist a Nescac. Just look at the history. I believe St.Lawrence lost to Williams in NCAA's in 2004, 2005, 2012 and St.Lawrence's best team in 1998, the year before their National Championship in 1999, which was basically the same team they lost in PK's. They beat Amherst in 2002 but since Serpone has taken over lost in 2008, 2010,2013.

Union- Until they decide to play a decent non-conference schedule they will never get into NCAA's.

Rochester- Always get a favorable NCAA draw because of coach being on the committee and always bow out in sweet 16.

Wheaton- Might win the NEWMAC but these teams hardly can compare to Cushing's great and deep teams of the early part of this decade.

Hobart- There best player #25 Bernard(forgot last name) went to Kent and is a legit player but they do not have the depth.

Brandeis- Would never be able to get by Amherst or Williams. They have good players and skilled players but need to get more physical and pure athletes. Guve them a Conrad from Midd or a Ben Brewster from Bowdoin and that would put them over the top

PaulNewman

We'll see.  I'm sure there is a bit of a psychological hurdle, but I watched two full NCAA games of SLU and was very impressed.  They were within inches of knocking out Amherst last year, eventually losing in 2nd OT I believe, and they appear to have strong class coming in.  I think you also may be selling Rochester and Brandeis a little short.  Looking forward to the season.

PaulNewman

BTW, speaking of good NCAA draws, the New England region appears to offer some of the best ones.  Williams had a cakewalk to the sweet 16, and some of the other teams had a pretty desirable first 2 games as well.

LaPaz

Listen I am a huge fan of the way SLU plays. They just do not have the same players they had back when they had the Jamaicans and Carruth and the GK that went to MLS. Durocher refuses to change his system and they did have bad luck as without DeMello in 2012 they lost to Williams. Thats the story though they have the talent to beat Nescac teams but just have not had the luck lately.

New England region can be easy but that's because all these AQ's come from weak New England Conferences. Also regional rankings ranked WNEC, Gordon and RWU all fom the CCC ahead of Nescac teams. For this only Amherst and Williams would get in. The 3 CCC teams got destroyed, except RWU, and the Nescac's were left wondering what happened.

Apple at Rochester is known in coaching circles to get or nudge his teams for favorable draws in NCAA's and sometimes he even gets UR into the dance with questionable records

All NESCAC

Quote from: LaPaz on July 12, 2014, 10:42:04 AM
1. Amherst- Jae Heo back and Rico plus a 10 day pre-season trip. Toughest schedule to start season. They get thru that and they are set.
2. Williams- talent is there, loads of seniors but lets remember Russo is a lame duck and most kids these days do not care. There are a couple bad seeds on this team that if not playing could ruin a good year. This team will be worth watching.
3. Wesleyan- They have now lifted SAT scores from requirements to get more athletes in(see Bowdoin). They have a decent frosh class and Wheeler always gets it done defensively. Toughest non-league schedule
4. Tufts- Maybe most talented group of seniors but there is def some issues inside this locker room. Another team to watch. Easiest schedule to start the year.
5. Midd- Athletic and talented and always organized but who is scoring goals aganist good teams?
6. Conn- see MIDD, without Hawkey I see no goalscoring agnist the better teams
7.Bowdoin- Will compete but without Brewster they will lack a toughness and struggle
8,9,10,11- Bates is just awful, Colby trying to re-build will be awful, Hamilton had some great results last year but lose alot of players and Trinty is your never ending roller coaster of wins and losses. Trinity will get some great results and are always dangerous on set pieces but then they will lose games mid-week that are mind boggling.

Hi LaPaz, Question--Amherst is taking or has taken a 10-day pre-season trip abroad?  I had heard there was a moratorium on NESCAC teams from taking team trips abroad due to the potential increased dangers/terrorist perceived with such a trip.  This was the reason stated by a number of coaches a few years ago as to why no  such trips were being made in the past 4+years.  Where did the Amherst team go and I'm sure since its NESCAC these practices/trip/games reduce the amount of pre-season practices they can have once the real pre-season starts.  did they already take this team trip?  Just curious, however if they are getting a head start on things then they will surely be the team to beat once again given their already loaded roster.

amh63

#667
All NESCAC....in early Summer/late Spring, I found on the Alumni section of the Amherst website a mention of the trip abroad.  The team headed to Paris and met up with two players doing their time abroad.  They played in Paris, Lyon and in Monaco.....trip had a blog, photos, etc and may still be on the Soccer section of the Athletic Page.  Seems it was primarily arranged and sponsored by alumui supporters of the sport.
On The 3rd of August, the majority of the Amherst baseball team with profs, coaches head To Japan for a historic trip.  Again funded by alumni fans primarily.  Check it out on the Amherst website/ athletic section.

LaPaz

from 2008-2012 pre season trips were banned for all sports. In regards to soccer you use to be able to take the trips in mid august right before pre-season. One every four years and to my knowledge every team took advantage of it. In 2008 they banned it and it was re-instated in 2013 for 2 trials. One being Williams men's Soccer and the other being maybe Wesleyan womens lax(not to sure how accurate that is). They re-introduced the trips but for some reason put a time frame on when they had to be taken. for mens and womens soccer it was either March break or after finals in May. Your example of a baseball team going in late August makes about zero sense, so as you can see another example of the presidents and AD's not knowing what the hell is going on.

In regards to the Amherst trip that is partially funded by Prince Albert 's good friend who played for Peter Gooding in 1982. I am sure the trip was first class and a late May trip while odd for soccer can only help get the guys motivated and in shape for the summer into pre-season. So YES an advantage

LaPaz

To answer another of your questions these trips have no effect on your pre-season days and double sessions. The new 15 game schedule has teams playing games 4 to 5 days into pre season. Basically 15 games in 60 days with a week or less pre season. An average of a game every 4 days. HUGE DISADVANTAGE

D3soccerwatcher

I am not too familiar with NESCAC teams, but just questioning how strong of a conference it is with only two teams posting 10 or more wins in the 2013 campaign.  And also the conference's NCAA national tournament representative gets beat 4-0 and gets out shot 25-11 in the semi-finals.  I only see the numbers, but stats like that certainly raise questions about the real strength of the conference.  Again not too familiar with the teams in the conference, just looking at the stats.

FourMoreYears

#671
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 04, 2014, 12:08:10 AM
I am not too familiar with NESCAC teams, but just questioning how strong of a conference it is with only two teams posting 10 or more wins in the 2013 campaign.  And also the conference's NCAA national tournament representative gets beat 4-0 and gets out shot 25-11 in the semi-finals.  I only see the numbers, but stats like that certainly raise questions about the real strength of the conference.  Again not too familiar with the teams in the conference, just looking at the stats.

I would offer two observations:

1. It's tough for NESCAC teams to pile up lots of wins. For example,  in 2013 they were limited to 14 regular season games ... only 4 out of conference.  So they spend the regular season beating up on each other.  There are only a few "automatic wins" in the NESCAC ... Colby and Bates last year.  The rest of the games are hard-fought battles.  A quick tally appears to show the NESCAC 2013 non-conference record at 41-7-5. 

2. You can't measure a conference by a single semi-final game.  You can measure a team versus another team by a single game.  No doubt that Messiah is a far better team and program currently than any team in the NESCAC. But I suppose that could be said of any team and any conference.  Messiah stands head and shoulders above everybody right now.

In terms of quality and depth, I think the NESCAC ranks pretty high up there for the D-3 conferences.  Curious D3soccerwatcher ... what conference do you think is the best in the land top to bottom?

nescac1

D3soccerwatcher, trying to glean anyting from results vs. Messiah is silly.  That's like saying a NESCAC team played a D1 team and lost badly, so therefore NESCAC is not a power conference.  Messiah badly outclasses almost every team in D3, almost every year.  Indeed, only two teams OTHER than Messiah have won a national title in the past decade.  And guess what?  One of them (Middlebury) was a NESCAC squad.  In some of those title games, Messiah absolutely pasted opponents, including a 5-1 win in the 2012 championship game.  In D3 soccer, there is Messiah, and there is everyone else.  But what is clear is that NESCAC is clearly right there at the top of "everyone else." 

NESCAC has had two teams win national titles: Williams and Midd.  Williams may be the most storied non-Messiah program in Division 3: a national title, five other final four appearances, four national players of the year, and a slew of players playing professionally, including two who had very successful MLS careers.  Amherst also has a tremendous program, including two final four appearances and a current eight-year streak of NCAA appearances, with several deep runs in the tourney.  And the conference has tremendous depth across the board, with Trinity, Bowdoin, Tufts and Wesleyan all having very strong programs as well. 

Excluding Messiah (which is better than every other conference, combined) NESCAC and NJAC have had the most post-season success of any D3 conferences. 

All NESCAC

Quote from: amh63 on August 01, 2014, 10:53:52 AM
All NESCAC....in early Summer/late Spring, I found on the Alumni section of the Amherst website a mention of the trip abroad.  The team headed to Paris and met up with two players doing their time abroad.  They played in Paris, Lyon and in Monaco.....trip had a blog, photos, etc and may still be on the Soccer section of the Athletic Page.  Seems it was primarily arranged and sponsored by alumui supporters of the sport.
On The 3rd of August, the majority of the Amherst baseball team with profs, coaches head To Japan for a historic trip.  Again funded by alumni fans primarily.  Check it out on the Amherst website/ athletic section.

thanks...sounds like a great opportunity.

All NESCAC

Quote from: LaPaz on August 03, 2014, 05:41:03 PM
from 2008-2012 pre season trips were banned for all sports. In regards to soccer you use to be able to take the trips in mid august right before pre-season. One every four years and to my knowledge every team took advantage of it. In 2008 they banned it and it was re-instated in 2013 for 2 trials. One being Williams men's Soccer and the other being maybe Wesleyan womens lax(not to sure how accurate that is). They re-introduced the trips but for some reason put a time frame on when they had to be taken. for mens and womens soccer it was either March break or after finals in May. Your example of a baseball team going in late August makes about zero sense, so as you can see another example of the presidents and AD's not knowing what the hell is going on.

In regards to the Amherst trip that is partially funded by Prince Albert 's good friend who played for Peter Gooding in 1982. I am sure the trip was first class and a late May trip while odd for soccer can only help get the guys motivated and in shape for the summer into pre-season. So YES an advantage

Thanks for the reply.