FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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matblake

Quote from: lmitzel on August 11, 2016, 11:05:53 AM
Coaches' Poll just dropped. Wheaton picked to win by a hair over NCC, 61-60 (5 1sts for WC, 4 for NCC)

http://www.cciw.org/news/2016/8/9/FB_0809160316.aspx

I think North Park is rated a little low.  The top 3 are no surprise.

USee

My rankings from my analysis (I came up with this last week) is:

North Central
Wheaton
IWU
Augie
Carthage
Carroll
NPU
Elmhurst
Millikin

I think there are 3.5 distinct tiers this year. The top two, the next three, and last four. Within the bottom four I think NPU and Carroll are better than Millikin and Elmhurst (thus the .5). I think Carthage is poised to make a big jump and Augie will be a lot better. If Augie figures out the QB role they could easily be 3rd in the league with the talent they have returning.

Should be a fun year.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: USee on August 11, 2016, 04:19:05 PM
My rankings from my analysis (I came up with this last week) is:

North Central
Wheaton
IWU
Augie
Carthage
Carroll
NPU
Elmhurst
Millikin

I think there are 3.5 distinct tiers this year. The top two, the next three, and last four. Within the bottom four I think NPU and Carroll are better than Millikin and Elmhurst (thus the .5). I think Carthage is poised to make a big jump and Augie will be a lot better. If Augie figures out the QB role they could easily be 3rd in the league with the talent they have returning.

Should be a fun year.

How can Carthage be "poised to make a big jump" when the Red Men tied for third last season and you have them tabbed for fifth this coming season?
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 10, 2016, 04:15:28 PM
Quote from: AndOne on August 10, 2016, 04:11:26 PM
NCC--100 upperclassmen/returnees listed plus 58 freshmen/other recruits-158
ELM--70 upperclassmen, 60 recruits-130
IWU--75 upperclassmen, 48 recruits-123

I'll have North Park's numbers either tomorrow or on Friday, but I'm guessing that it'll be somewhere in the vicinity of 70 returnees and 50 to 55 recruits, so my guesstimate for total first-day-of-camp roster size is 120 to 125.

After talking to Mike Conway today, I think that the total number of players who will show up for camp will be more like 115. That's still an enormously high total by North Park standards.

Tomorrow is move-in day and Saturday is picture day (aka broadcaster-learns-how-to-pronounce-the-names-of-new-players day ;)). The Samoan and Hawaiian players have already arrived on campus. And the Pacific Islander expansion continues, as this year the Vikings will have a freshman QB from Guam as well.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

wally_wabash

Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 11, 2016, 10:08:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 10, 2016, 04:15:28 PM
Quote from: AndOne on August 10, 2016, 04:11:26 PM
NCC--100 upperclassmen/returnees listed plus 58 freshmen/other recruits-158
ELM--70 upperclassmen, 60 recruits-130
IWU--75 upperclassmen, 48 recruits-123

I'll have North Park's numbers either tomorrow or on Friday, but I'm guessing that it'll be somewhere in the vicinity of 70 returnees and 50 to 55 recruits, so my guesstimate for total first-day-of-camp roster size is 120 to 125.

After talking to Mike Conway today, I think that the total number of players who will show up for camp will be more like 115. That's still an enormously high total by North Park standards.

Tomorrow is move-in day and Saturday is picture day (aka broadcaster-learns-how-to-pronounce-the-names-of-new-players day ;)). The Samoan and Hawaiian players have already arrived on campus. And the Pacific Islander expansion continues, as this year the Vikings will have a freshman QB from Guam as well.

With another class or two, North Park will have achieved full leapfrog. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

Gregory Sager

Quote from: wally_wabash on August 11, 2016, 11:42:23 PM
With another class or two, North Park will have achieved full leapfrog.

Mike Conway is really pumped about the quality of this incoming class of freshmen. Then again, it's August ... and at this moment every college football head coach in America is pumped about the quality of his incoming class of freshmen, at least in public. ;)

He and his staff have already put together the best back-to-back recruiting years NPU football has had since I was a freshman at the Park back in 1979. (I know, this is North Park football we're talking about, so any positive historical comparisons automatically sound like faint praise.) If the class of '20 turns out to be as good as the class of '18 and the class of '19, then some pretty special things can happen for the Vikings over the next few seasons.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

USee

Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 11, 2016, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: USee on August 11, 2016, 04:19:05 PM
My rankings from my analysis (I came up with this last week) is:

North Central
Wheaton
IWU
Augie
Carthage
Carroll
NPU
Elmhurst
Millikin

I think there are 3.5 distinct tiers this year. The top two, the next three, and last four. Within the bottom four I think NPU and Carroll are better than Millikin and Elmhurst (thus the .5). I think Carthage is poised to make a big jump and Augie will be a lot better. If Augie figures out the QB role they could easily be 3rd in the league with the talent they have returning.

Should be a fun year.

How can Carthage be "poised to make a big jump" when the Red Men tied for third last season and you have them tabbed for fifth this coming season?

Yea I should have been more clear. I see IWU/Augie/Carthage as pretty even and I could easily see Carthage finishing 3rd in a league that overall will be much better than it was a year ago. If that happens, I think it will be a big jump...i.e. 3rd for two  consecutive years in an upwardly improving league.

79jaybird

The top 1/3 I agree with.   I am kind of surprised the poll has Elmhurst 9th.  Elmhurst has a lot of senior leadership returning.  While I do think they will be in the lower half,  I would think a 6th-8th finish is most likely. 
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AndOne

Wheaton
North Central

IWU

Carthage

NPU
Augie

Carroll
Elmhurst
Millikin

I think the Wheaties have to be considered the favs based largely on the fact that they have two good, experienced QBs returning.
I sense USee is engaging in a bit of reverse psychology in placing the Cardinals on top of his Blue & Orange. 😉

I see WC and NCC on the top tier, IWU alone on the 2nd level, and CC by themselves on the 3rd step.
I'd put NPU and Augie at 3.5, and give a slight edge to the Parkers based mainly on having their QB back, as opposed to AC who doesn't.
CU, EC, and MU are down on the 4th tier. I'll say EC avoids the cellar, as in the Coaches' Poll, due to the fact that they have home field over MU this season.

This is just my best guess based on a very quick "analysis."  :D
I'm sure others have equally valid opinions at this early juncture.

USee

My analysis on North Central and Wheaton leads me to two very similarly talented teams. Wheaton was #1 in the league on both offense and defense last year. North Central was a very close #2 in offense and 3rd in defense. NCC has 9 starter back on offense and 8 on defense. Wheaton has 9 back on offense and 6 on defense. North Centrals defense has a defensive front that returns 6 of 7 and Wheaton brings back 3 of 7. That and the game being played in Naperville is why I think NCC has a small edge over Wheaton this year.  That said, Wheaton has had 3 successive years with the best recruiting classed ever at the school so some young talent could step up and close that small gap. Outside of the Little Brass Bell game being played @NCC, the team have similar schedules. Both play @IWU, @Augie and @Carthage, who are the next best 3 in the league. Non conference NCC plays 2 NAIA schools (Robert Morris and Webber) and Wheaton plays Benedictine and Kalamazoo.

Both teams have tremendous firepower back on offense but defensively, NCC has more experience up front.

AndOne

#33130
One sports axiom, most likely applicable to all sports, is 'defense wins games.' As USee advises, North Central might have a slight advantage over Wheaton on the defensive side of the ball.
However, another axiom, specific to football, is 'QB is the most important position on the field.' In this regard, the North DuPagers have a distinct advantage in that they have two senior QBs both of which have lagged significant playing time with demonstrated success.

Accordingly, the winner of this year's Little Brass Bell game may well come down to a question of which team can best exploit the advantage they have in the above aspects of the game. Can the Wheaton QB (or QBs) use a combination of their experience plus Wheaton's other offensive weapons to overcome the NCC advantage on the other side of the line? Or, can the NCC QB (likely either a well developing Soph or a redshirt D1 transfer) overcome his lesser degree of experience and step up to efficiently use his weapons to take advantage of, and find holes in, what may be a slightly less stout Wheatie defense?



markerickson

Who has the superior "weapons", AO, NCC or WC?
Once a metalhead, always a metalhead.  Matthew 5:13.

AndOne

#33132
Quote from: markerickson on August 14, 2016, 11:41:56 PM
Who has the superior "weapons", AO, NCC or WC?

Mark,

Without going into great detail, and also because I don't honestly feel I know CCIW football as well as I do basketball (not that I'm an expert there  :) ), I would say that with Breunig, and Brown, if he is completely healed, that NCC has a slight edge in the rushing game. I say slight because Oletaju is a very good back for WC, capable of breaking a big run at any time.
NCC also has a good receiving corps in Ulmer, Kuhl, Hartema which will be enhanced by the addition of Dylan Warden. They do not have a preseason All-American like Lindquist, but I think they are overall a little stronger. The trick is getting them the ball.
With regard to O line play it seems the edge would have have to go to WC with pre-season All-Americans Gibson and Lindquist.
IDK about the D lines, but USee said NCC has a little more experience returning.
No idea about the relative strengths of the team's LBs or defensive backfield play. Call it even.
At the QB position, which I give the most weight to, WC has a definite edge going in.

So, overall we have receivers, runners, and D line for NCC
LBs and D backs-overall, even.
O line-WC
QB---which I rate as 2 points, WC
That's a 3-3 tie. Yes, I know, a cop-out for sure :D . But I do think the teams truly are very close. This is further evidenced by the coaches poll voting which is as close as it can get.

The game is at NCC, but WC is a 20 minute drive away so I don't believe the Cards will derive any real advantage. Besides I have observed, over several years, that NCC student support/attendance has never been the best. Too many distractions in beautiful downtown NaPPerville?  ;)
If the students supported the team with the fervor the athletic administration, the players parents, and former players and other alums do, the stands would be full or nearly so every game.

Lastly, I've heard that a champ is champ until somebody else knocks him/them off. True?




matblake


AndOne

Quote from: matblake on August 16, 2016, 11:56:59 AM
Breakdown of the Wheaton roster by state.  Also contains a link to this year's roster.
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2016/8/13/2016-thunder-football-roster.aspx

Wheaton guys, help pls.

I have to wonder how many of the newbies from far flung places like SC, LA, NV, MA, SC, & etc., basically initially recruited themselves to Wheaton as opposed to the WC staff going out and beating the bushes in several of the more distant states. I would think that WC is well known to Christian preps even if they live pretty far from school, and as such, the initial contact is on the part of the recruit as opposed to being initiated by the WC staff.
If this is the case, its a great plus for the Orange & Blue. Nice savings of both time and $.