WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

Started by wheatonc, March 03, 2005, 06:18:19 PM

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iwu70

Final at The Shirk IWU 71 EC 56 -- give credit to EC for fighting on after a horrible first half.

Weber a career high 17
McGraw 11
Schneider 11
Merritt 10, again perfect from the charity stripe.

Eppard, a massive 27, but no one else in double figures.

As usual, IWU winning the TO battle, 32-17, with points off turnovers at 37.  So many more possessions and attempts.  That's the IWU "system" or formula for winning.  Actually, a low-scoring game for IWU.  Pine-sitters playing many minutes in the second half.

Now 12-2 in CCIW play with two games to play, overall 17-6 -- looking to dance in March.

IWU'70

GoPerry

#5596
Wheaton 68
Millikin 52

Not a pretty game by any stretch for the Thunder.  But I'm sure they'll take the win in Decatur and go quietly.  7s were wild for Katie McDaniels with 17 pts, 7 rebs, 7 assists for Wheaton. Devin Kyler had another solid performance with 10 and 10.  Chantal Meacham contributed 11 while Ellie Zeller chipped in 10 off the bench.  Glad to see Jill Berg getting some minutes as I think she'll be needed down the stretch at some point.

IWU over Elmhurst is not surprising.  I'm hoping that Wheaton can take care of Carroll on Saturday while IWU takes down NCC at home.  That will set up a good finale for all the conference marbles at King on Tuesday.  From what I can tell, I think the Titans are playing the consistently best basketball right now – winning fairly easily.  Wheaton will have to find another gear starting now and for the next 2-3 weeks, hopefully longer.

Gregory Sager

Carthage 65
North Park 54

Gabby Sandoval: 12 pts
Liz Rehberger: 11 pts
Amani Davis: 8 rebs, 5:1 a:to

Bailey Gilbert: 13 pts
Morgan Harris: 11 pts
Maggie Berigan: 10 pts, 9 rebs
Morgan Vukovich: 10 pts

The Lady Reds jumped out on NPU early, and the Vikings just never did manage to climb back within shooting distance. Down by as many as 20 on a couple of occasions in the middle of the third quarter, the Vikings got it down into single digits a few times, but never got within two possessions. Carthage just was too dominant inside, outrebounding the Vikings by seven and blocking seven NPU shots. At least the Park showed some fight in that second half, though, as their energy level was significantly better than it had been in the routs at the hands of Wheaton and Wesleyan in their last two games.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

iwu70

Yes, IWU winning so so easily over EC really surprised me.  I thought it would be closer, with Eppard et. al.  However, the Titans are playing very well, with intensity and great depth right now, a different player stepping up and leading the way almost every game.  Tonight it was Gabby Weber with a career high 17.  They do have lots of weapons and a very good, deep bench.  Mia Smith can easily go 11 deep and not lose much -- and that's with a very good former starter sitting on the bench with a season-ending injury.  Bright future for the IWU women's program.

But, the time is now -- take care of NCC and get to the big game at WC.  WC will easily beat Carroll.   Senior night for the Titans @Shirk vs. NCC up next.  Thanks to all the Titan seniors.  Thanks for your long and strong dedication to the IWU program.  You are appreciated.

Two games more -- then the CCIW tournament, hopefully at The Shirk, and some Dancing in March to follow.

Keep it rolling TITANS!

IWU'70

lmitzel

Sounded like I only missed 21 threes last night as North Central beat up on Carroll 104-54. Apparently they caught fire in the fourth, hitting 7-10 from beyond the arc. They also tied a team record with 11 blocks.

Cardinals can play spoiler in their final two games at Illinois Wesleyan and at Augie. Hopefully the youth on the team can show their development from the season and put up good efforts in the final two games.
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GoPerry

Quote from: Enginerd on February 15, 2017, 12:24:03 PM
gordonmann,
Long-time lurker around here, mostly because no one is ever around on the HCAC board- and you guys are always knowledgeable and the discussion here enlightening. I've also always followed CCIW sports since I grew up in the Midwest.
I AM curious as to why my alma mater, Rose-Hulman, has gotten absolutely ZERO love in the D3 Hoops poll this year, not so much as a single vote - despite having wins over three teams that have been ranked or have received votes this season - including two that are tied for their respective conference leads heading into the final week of the regular season (Chicago and Texas-Dallas).
Making this even more interesting is a glance at two teams from the MIAA either ranked or receiving votes, Trine and Calvin. Both teams have similar won-loss records (Trine one fewer loss and Calvin one more) yet are FAR down the SOS list compared to RHIT, which was inside the Top-50 until it played two weak conference opponents last week. Trine in particular has only two notable victories, both against a Calvin squad with an SOS of .473.
No doubt the ugly loss to IWU hurts - but IWU beat Chicago just as badly - both games at IWU. RHIT also boasts the #4 scoring defense in the country, and is the first team in 5 years to hold North Central's System to fewer than 50 points.
Interestingly enough, gordonmann, RHIT is ranked ahead of both Calvin and Trine in the 1st regional rankings as well.

Enginerd: 

Welcome to the board!

I did notice Rose Hulman in the regional rankings and their pretty nice overall record.  I will not claim any intimate knowledge surrounding the vagaries of the D3hoops polling process and voting.  Massey has RHIT at #27 overall with an SOS rank of about 77.  More mystifying to me is Trine's #11 ranking with a similar SOS to RHIT of 75.  They really haven't beaten anyone of note except Calvin ( who also has few impressive wins).  Could be that voters are using Massey a lot to help inform their ballots?  Idk,  but you probably have a case just as Ill Wesleyan has one too.

The Engineers can solve a lot of that by continuing to win.

Enginerd


[/quote]

Enginerd: 

Welcome to the board!

I did notice Rose Hulman in the regional rankings and their pretty nice overall record.  I will not claim any intimate knowledge surrounding the vagaries of the D3hoops polling process and voting.  Massey has RHIT at #27 overall with an SOS rank of about 77.  More mystifying to me is Trine's #11 ranking with a similar SOS to RHIT of 75.  They really haven't beaten anyone of note except Calvin ( who also has few impressive wins).  Could be that voters are using Massey a lot to help inform their ballots?  Idk,  but you probably have a case just as Ill Wesleyan has one too.

The Engineers can solve a lot of that by continuing to win.
[/quote]

I agree GoPerry...but if the D3Hoops voters ARE basing their ballots on Massey, it wouldn't make any sense anyway. As the #27 Massey team, Rose should be getting something along the lines of the 10-18 votes garnered by Ithaca, Texas-Dallas, and Wheaton, respectively. Ultimately, votes in a D3Hoops poll matter very little at the end of the season, but I AM very curious how RHIT wouldn't have at least gotten one vote! That's why I asked GordonMann, who certainly cannot claim to be unaware of Terre Haute or RHIT, since he covered the Women's Final Four here in the dim past - There might be legitimate reasons a voter would be inclined NOT to vote for a particular team...

lmitzel

With two dates' worth of games left, I'm trying to work out the scenarios. First for the top overall seed:

-Regardless of what happens on Saturday, Tuesday's game between Wheaton and Illinois Wesleyan will be the CCIW Regular Season Championship Game, with the winner hosting the CCIW Tournament and the loser falling to the #2 seed (Illinois Wesleyan would hold the head to head tiebreaker if they win, and Wheaton would hold the tiebreaker if they win based on sweeps of both Augustana and Elmhurst, while Illinois Wesleyan split their games with both teams).

For the #3 seed:

-Augustana clinches the #3 seed with a win at North Park on Saturday AND a win vs North Central on Tuesday.
-Augustana clinches the #3 seed with a win at North Park on Saturday OR a win vs North Central on Tuesday AND an Elmhurst loss at Millikin on Tuesday. (In both scenarios, Augie holds the tiebreaker over Elmhurst due to a regular season sweep).
-Elmhurst clinches the #3 seed with a win at Millikin on Tuesday AND losses by Augustana at North Park on Saturday AND vs North Central on Tuesday.

And for the #4 seed:

-Augustanta clinches a CCIW Tournament berth with a win at North Park on Saturday OR a win vs North Central on Tuesday OR a Carthage loss at Millikin on Saturday OR a Carthage loss at Carroll on Tuesday OR an Illinois Wesleyan win at Wheaton on Tuesday (Augustana would hold the tiebreaker over Carthage if Illinois Wesleyan wins the CCIW regular season title due to a splitting the season series; Carthage lost both games to Illinois Wesleyan).
-Carthage clinches the #4 seed with a wins at Millikin on Saturday AND at Carroll on Tuesday AND losses by Augustana at North Park on Saturday AND vs North Central on Tuesday AND a Wheaton win vs Illinois Wesleyan on Tuesday (Carthage would hold the tiebreaker over Augustana if Wheaton wins the CCIW regular season title due to splitting the season series; Augustana lost both games to Wheaton).

My head hurts now, though this at least makes more sense than last year's men's scenario going into the final day; North Park was still alive but had absolutely no control over their own destiny. Here at least pretty much every scenario involves "win and in," though Carthage needs a world of help just to get in, and Elmhurst needs help to grab the #3 seed.
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lmitzel

Quote from: Enginerd on February 16, 2017, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: GoPerry on February 16, 2017, 12:56:15 PM
Enginerd: 

Welcome to the board!

I did notice Rose Hulman in the regional rankings and their pretty nice overall record.  I will not claim any intimate knowledge surrounding the vagaries of the D3hoops polling process and voting.  Massey has RHIT at #27 overall with an SOS rank of about 77.  More mystifying to me is Trine's #11 ranking with a similar SOS to RHIT of 75.  They really haven't beaten anyone of note except Calvin ( who also has few impressive wins).  Could be that voters are using Massey a lot to help inform their ballots?  Idk,  but you probably have a case just as Ill Wesleyan has one too.

The Engineers can solve a lot of that by continuing to win.

I agree GoPerry...but if the D3Hoops voters ARE basing their ballots on Massey, it wouldn't make any sense anyway. As the #27 Massey team, Rose should be getting something along the lines of the 10-18 votes garnered by Ithaca, Texas-Dallas, and Wheaton, respectively. Ultimately, votes in a D3Hoops poll matter very little at the end of the season, but I AM very curious how RHIT wouldn't have at least gotten one vote! That's why I asked GordonMann, who certainly cannot claim to be unaware of Terre Haute or RHIT, since he covered the Women's Final Four here in the dim past - There might be legitimate reasons a voter would be inclined NOT to vote for a particular team...

With all due respect to Gordon, Dave, and the rest of the voters for D3Hoops, I tend not to put a lot of stock in the Top 25 other than for pride purposes. Though to be fair, I was in the same situation two seasons ago when I spent all of December 2014 screaming about my Cardinals either barely receiving votes or being completely off the Top 25 list despite being undefeated and possessing one of the better strengths of schedule to that point that season. I earned a shoutout on Hoopsville from coach Michelle Roof after the Illinois Wesleyan win to open conference play, and the team finally broke into the rankings. Eventually you get some respect.  :P

As for the why RHIT isn't receiving votes, I can't say for certain. Obviously their record, strength of schedule, and Massey ratings speak for themselves as a caliber of team that should at least be getting some votes. Kind of like GoPerry said though, they keep winning and the voters may have no choice but to give them some love.
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2022 CCIW Football Pick 'Em Co-Champion
#THREEEEEEEEE

RogK

My opinion for 1st team all-CCIW, listed alphabetically :
Rebekah Ehresman, Mikaela Eppard (MOP), Morgan Harris, Kaycee Kallenberger, Devin Kyler, Katie McDaniels, Molly McGraw, Liz Rehberger.
While a few important games remain, I think these players have already done more than enough to warrant 1st team and are not likely to undo any of it by substandard performance in the next six days.
My thoughts on 2nd team are a bit foggier, but I'd include Brittney Wald, Kaela Jones, Madie Kaelber, Amanda Kelly or Maddie Merritt, Izzy Anderson, Kelly Lawson, Emily Schultz or Devin Curry, Anita Sterling or Jamie Cuny or Paula Zerante.
I don't see North Park, North Central, Carroll and Millikin getting more than 1 each among the 16.
Kaelber would be my Newcomer of the Year (even though she refused to make any of her FG attempts in my presence last night).

Gregory Sager

Quote from: RogK on February 16, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
Kaelber would be my Newcomer of the Year (even though she refused to make any of her FG attempts in my presence last night).

How rude of her!

(BTW, I generally agree with your All-CCIW picks.)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

GoPerry

Quote from: RogK on February 16, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
My opinion for 1st team all-CCIW, listed alphabetically :
Rebekah Ehresman, Mikaela Eppard (MOP), Morgan Harris, Kaycee Kallenberger, Devin Kyler, Katie McDaniels, Molly McGraw, Liz Rehberger.
While a few important games remain, I think these players have already done more than enough to warrant 1st team and are not likely to undo any of it by substandard performance in the next six days.
My thoughts on 2nd team are a bit foggier, but I'd include Brittney Wald, Kaela Jones, Madie Kaelber, Amanda Kelly or Maddie Merritt, Izzy Anderson, Kelly Lawson, Emily Schultz or Devin Curry, Anita Sterling or Jamie Cuny or Paula Zerante.
I don't see North Park, North Central, Carroll and Millikin getting more than 1 each among the 16.
Kaelber would be my Newcomer of the Year (even though she refused to make any of her FG attempts in my presence last night).


I think the MOP is really between Katie McDaniels and Mikaela Eppard.  I think there's a stronger case for McDaniels as an all-around player, even acknowledging my own bias.  But there's an argument for either depending on which criteria the voter values.

I agree that McDaniels, Eppard, Rebekah Ehresman, Morgan Harris, and Liz Rehberger are locks for first team.  I think you could see some movement up/down with the others.  It's tough to say how coaches will view players like Brittany Wald, a very good player on a pretty challenged team.  Likewise for Schultz and Curry for Millikin.  Corrie Reiley could get some consideration as well as Chantal Meacham. 

RogK

McDaniels certainly is an excellent all-around player, GoPerry. A possible way to think about all-around talent is to imagine 5 Katie McDanielses playing against 5 Mikaela Eppards. But, setting aside that unlikely turn of events, I'd say that Eppard has improved defensively, can handle the ball in an OK manner, plus her forefront scoring and rebounding abilities. When she is defending in the lane, she is also helpful to teammates by advising them regarding picks and switching, etc.
Big players can win MOP with somewhat less all-around talents than some smaller players. Think ahead to Jill Berg being MOP in '18-'19 and '19-'20.

RogK

By the way, one of the best things (in my view) about Katie McDaniels has been her focus on what's next at the moment in the game. If she makes a (rare) mistake or if the person she's guarding manages to score, it seems that she spends zero time lamenting what just happened; instead, she is immediately focused on what to do next.
Actually, when she does something very good, she doesn't dwell on that either, from what I've observed. That's an admirable attitude -- just keep working hard and smart.

GoPerry

Quote from: RogK on February 16, 2017, 05:07:53 PM
McDaniels certainly is an excellent all-around player, GoPerry. A possible way to think about all-around talent is to imagine 5 Katie McDanielses playing against 5 Mikaela Eppards.

Sorry RogK.  I'm actually not sure what that means exactly?


Quote from: RogK on February 16, 2017, 05:07:53 PM
McDaniels certainly is an excellent all-around player, GoPerry. A possible way to think about all-around talent is to imagine 5 Katie McDanielses playing against 5 Mikaela Eppards. But, setting aside that unlikely turn of events, I'd say that Eppard has improved defensively, can handle the ball in an OK manner, plus her forefront scoring and rebounding abilities. When she is defending in the lane, she is also helpful to teammates by advising them regarding picks and switching, etc.
Big players can win MOP with somewhat less all-around talents than some smaller players. Think ahead to Jill Berg being MOP in '18-'19 and '19-'20.

I'm wondering if Imitzel is considering doing the McDaniels/Eppard stat breakdown like he did on the Men's board(Francis/Robinson)?  One factor would be whether to use conference only or overall.  Conference only: each are among the leaders in 6 categories.  Overall:  McDaniels 7, Eppard 4.  Basically, Eppard has the edge in rebounding and FG%.  McDaniels has the edge in assts, steals.

Offensively and on the glass, Eppard is no doubt a force.  She may win MOP and she would be deserving.  But I'm not sure I'd agree that our conference's Most Outstanding Player can/should have less all around talent.  In fact, I would guess that's rarely the case.  Being a forward doesn't mean they can't contribute to the team in other ways such as dish out assists, steal the ball, block shots -  all important aspects of a team game besides the obvious pts/rebs. 

Another way to judge MOP, especially in close races, could be which player does a better job of making her team mates better?  That's much more subjective obviously.  Sometimes team success factors in also but I'm less favorable to that.