NESCAC

Started by LaPaz, September 11, 2011, 05:54:52 PM

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Mr.Right

I seriously doubt the AD was "very mad" at the fact that Flaherty was leaving. He is a first year AD up there and Flaherty had a 6 year record in Nescac Conference play of 11-38-11. I'm not even sure how you put that on a resume. If the AD was upset at all it was because Flaherty probably did not let anyone know that he was sniffing around for other gigs which is understandable and completely normal. I am guessing he accepted the job up at Dartmouth and waited to tell the AD he had accepted the job. That would be the only legitimate reason for the AD to be upset because the guy probably left town and told them last minute which left the AD and the program in a pinch. Other than that scenario I have no idea why the AD would be upset. The way you presented it sounded like the AD was pissed he was leaving. I don't buy that at all.

As far as the Dartmouth 2nd Assistants that got jobs elsewhere:

Fahey followed Riley to Notre Dame

Wileman followed the 1st assistant under Cook that got the job at UK..So same as Fahey.

Gorman got the job at Albany VERY YOUNG and has done a real solid job. Actually, I have been impressed with the turnaround he has produced at Albany but he got a nice bump from his father and a couple of his father's friends to get that job. Frankly, Albany might have been the worst program in D1 about 5 years ago and I thought Men's Soccer was going to get dropped because it was so BAD but they were willing to give it to a young assistant with fantastic references that would take low $$$. They could only go up.

So I will give you that Assistants and 2nd Assistants have gotten solid jobs because Dartmouth has been very successful in the Ivies and NCAA's(for an Ivy) and all have the Bobby Clarke connection and Jeff Cook also helped his assistants. I think Dartmouth's new Coach is still a question mark and not sure if their success will continue. So TBD, but even if his NEW 1st Assistant gets a decent gig is he going to bring Flaherty with him to be 1st Assistant? I am not so sure about that but who knows. However, I am guessing Flaherty left Bates to get into D1 Coaching but maybe he just wanted to live in Hanover,NH or whatnot who knows why he left. If he left just to leave than this whole conversation is irrelevant but if he left Bates to get into D1 Coaching by being a 2nd Assistant at Dartmouth I think is hopeful at best.

NESCACsoccerguy

1) Not sure where you're getting the "very mad" quote? Made up?
2) Fahey's move doesn't count then? Right. If he wasn't at Dartmouth, would he have gotten the ND job?
3) Wileman followed him? Kentucky head coach has been there for 6 season (2018 will be 7). Wileman has been there for 3 seasons (2018 will be 4).
4) What does Gorman's age have anything to do with the FACT that he was a 2nd assistant at Dartmouth and was later the head coach of Albany?
5) Bobby Clark (you misspelled his name Mr "Right") connections is a main reason these guys all got jobs? Gorman, Wileman and Fahey never worked for or with Bobby Clark, and never played for him. Neither did Rutkowski.
6) What does the Dartmouth top assistant maybe or maybe not leaving and maybe or maybe not taking Flaherty having anything to do with the above list? It has nothing to do with how previous Dartmouth assistants have done. Might not have anything to do with why Flaherty wanted to take the job.
7) You were claiming earlier that Flaherty was fired. Now you're arguing he took it to get into Division 1 and it's a hopeful move at best?
8) 2nd assistant jobs were previously for "retreads" according to you. Now that you see the list of who was there and how they've done, you've backed off that?

Not sure what your issue is with Flaherty. If you could elaborate and give any good reason why there is one, let us know

Mr.Right

Quote from: NESCACsoccerguy on July 06, 2018, 09:28:02 PM
1) Not sure where you're getting the "very mad" quote? Made up?
2) Fahey's move doesn't count then? Right. If he wasn't at Dartmouth, would he have gotten the ND job?
3) Wileman followed him? Kentucky head coach has been there for 6 season (2018 will be 7). Wileman has been there for 3 seasons (2018 will be 4).
4) What does Gorman's age have anything to do with the FACT that he was a 2nd assistant at Dartmouth and was later the head coach of Albany?
5) Bobby Clark (you misspelled his name Mr "Right") connections is a main reason these guys all got jobs? Gorman, Wileman and Fahey never worked for or with Bobby Clark, and never played for him. Neither did Rutkowski.
6) What does the Dartmouth top assistant maybe or maybe not leaving and maybe or maybe not taking Flaherty having anything to do with the above list? It has nothing to do with how previous Dartmouth assistants have done. Might not have anything to do with why Flaherty wanted to take the job.
7) You were claiming earlier that Flaherty was fired. Now you're arguing he took it to get into Division 1 and it's a hopeful move at best?
8) 2nd assistant jobs were previously for "retreads" according to you. Now that you see the list of who was there and how they've done, you've backed off that?

Not sure what your issue is with Flaherty. If you could elaborate and give any good reason why there is one, let us know


YOU said the AD was upset at Flaherty leaving as if the program would be unable to continue without him. The fact is the guy in 6 years went 11-38-11 and was 20 seconds away from never qualifying for the Nescac Tournament / never getting into the Top 8 in an 11 team league. He never surpassed 2 wins in 6 seasons. Enough said. His resume speaks for itself.

I have nothing against the guy but the way you approached the whole subject was that this was a massive loss to the program and the school. I just wanted to get the actual numbers out there.

As far as Assistants, my spelling issues, making things up, backing off retreads and anything else going on in your head I have nothing for you but I think it is you who is splitting hairs because you have nothing else to go with.  I will end this by just saying that if you do not think Clark(e) has anything to do with Dartmouth Mens Soccer and all the coaches that have followed him and gotten jobs because of him than it is you who is naive on the whole coaching tree and how his tentacles are all over College Soccer.

truenorth

It's interesting to reflect on the Dartmouth coaching lineage.  Bobby Clark was there from '85 to '93 and really raised the bar.  He was a legendary Scottish player himself who was revered during his time at Dartmouth before moving on to Notre Dame.  Then Fran O'Leary (an Irishman) came in for 7 years before departing for George Mason, and later Bowdoin.  Jeff Cook came over from Bates to succeed O'Leary and brought in Chad Riley (a Notre Dame alum) as his assistant.  Riley later succeeded Cook.  All of these guys were successful at Dartmouth to varying degrees, but especially Riley who coached them to four straight Ivy titles over the last four years and second round NCAA appearances.  Now Riley has moved back to his alma mater Notre Dame to take over from Bobby Clark.

I'm a Dartmouth alum, but was a Nordic skier and not a soccer player.  I'm a fan of Dartmouth men's soccer, but ironically I'm a bigger fan of Brown men's soccer because that's where one of my sons played.  It'll be interesting to see how the new Dartmouth coach fares...especially given that he's got no connection (at least that I'm aware of) to the Bobby Clark "mafia"...

midwest

I don't want to shift the conversation too far afield from NESCAC but for those who are curious about details, Bobby Clark's network is all over D1 soccer. His former assistants include Brian Wiese who played for him at Dartmouth, coached with him at ND, and is head coach at Georgetown. Mike Avery was his former assistant at ND and is head coach at Valpo. Nate Norman played for him at ND, was head women's coach at Western Michigan and is now head women's coach at ND. Greg Dalby played for him at ND, coached for him at ND, then was an Asst at Davidson and now an Asst. at Penn State. Chad Riley played for him at ND, was Asst under him at ND, then left to take Dartmouth Asst. job and was hired into Head Dartmouth job and is now the ND coach following Bobby's retirement. Bobby's son, Jamie, played for him at Stanford, was an Asst for him at ND, and is now  head coach at Univ Washington after stints at New Mexico and Harvard. I'm sure there are more.

NESCACsoccerguy

100% Clark has a huge tree and influence. The point on my end was that Dartmouth 2nd assistants have done well. With / without Clark, they've been successful. Some I'm sure had a lot to do with Clark. That said, I'm not sure Clark told Riley to hire Fahey (someone who had never played or coached for Clark) and I'm not sure Clark told Riley to take Fahey to Notre Dame. I'm not sure Clark told Cook to hire Cedergren and I'm not sure Clark got Cedergren (someone who had never played or coached for Clark)  the Kentucky head coaching job. I'm not sure Clark told Cook to hire Wileman (someone who had never played or coached for Clark) at Dartmouth and I'm not sure Clark told Cedergren to hire Wileman at Kentucky. I'm not sure Clark told cook to hire Gorman (someone who had never played or coached for Clark) and I'm not sure Clark got Gorman the Albany job.

Regardless, the whole point at the beginning was that this is a good move for Flaherty if he wants to get into Division 1 coaching. I never said the AD was very mad. I never said he did an amazing job and was irreplaceable at Bates. I just said that if he wants to go Division 1 it is a good move, and that I heard the AD was not happy about him leaving. Mr. Right, please don't misquote me and make up things I did not say to help your argument/your attempts to make Flaherty look bad.

Dartmouth is playing Indiana, Notre Dame and UCONN in their first three games next year. I am not seeing Bates schedule but they played Hamilton, UNE and Newbury in their first three games last year. Bates (to my knowledge) has never had a player drafted into the MLS. Dartmouth had a first and a fourth round draft pick in the most recent MLS Draft. Bates I don't believe has ever won a NESCAC title and Mr. Right + others usually say it is one of the toughest NESCAC schools to recruit to. Dartmouth has won four straight Ivy League titles. If you want to coach college soccer at the highest level possible, it does seem like a good move in my opinion.

I'll leave it at this. If he was fired, why would Bates not have a story about his resignation/contract not renewed/whatever the case is when Dartmouth already has a story announcing him joining the staff on their website? If he was fired/not renewed/whatever the case is, why would Bates do this in late June when they had the entire offseason? Plenty of schools push their coaches out the door, but they do it far earlier rather than wait so long.

lumbercat

#6006
I'm no soccer guy but they are cleaning house at Bates. The Head football coach recently "left" at a very bad time and they had to scramble to replace him- like Flaherty I think he was pushed out.

My personal speculation is both coaching situations may have been similar. The AD wanted to make these coaching changes but the administration was unwilling to buy out the remainder of coaching contracts. I believe the Football coach intended to play out the final year of his contract but evidently found a lame duck situation for his final year untenable and chose to leave.

Or, possibly there was some unsuccessful financial negotiation and the coach walked.....speculation only.
Looks to me like the Soccer situation was similar.

Hoping the college will make the right financial commitment to both programs but that remains to be seen.

As I said, I'm not a soccer guy but you folks in the Soccer community will know the level of the commitment Bates has made by the resume and reputation of the new guy despite the less than ideal time frame.

For what it's worth I don't know Flaherty at all but have heard rumblings about him and certain eccentricities on more than one different occasions in the past few years. All told they wanted him gone.

I'll get off the Soccer board and leave it to those who know but I will leave with one final comment for the record. I believe Bates at some point in the past 10 or 15 years did have a guy drafted and/or who played in the prevailing pro Soccer league at that time.

mom1234

Quote from: lumbercat on July 12, 2018, 02:50:11 PM
I'm no soccer guy but they are cleaning house at Bates. The Head football coach recently "left" at a very bad time and they had to scramble to replace him- like Flaherty I think he was pushed out.

My personal speculation is both coaching situations may have been similar. The AD wanted to make these coaching changes but the administration was unwilling to buy out the remainder of coaching contracts. I believe the Football coach intended to play out the final year of his contract but evidently found a lame duck situation for his final year untenable and chose to leave.

Or, possibly there was some unsuccessful financial negotiation and the coach walked.....speculation only.
Looks to me like the Soccer situation was similar.

Hoping the college will make the right financial commitment to both programs but that remains to be seen.

As I said, I'm not a soccer guy but you folks in the Soccer community will know the level of the commitment Bates has made by the resume and reputation of the new guy despite the less than ideal time frame.

For what it's worth I don't know Flaherty at all but have heard rumblings about him and certain eccentricities on more than one different occasions in the past few years. All told they wanted him gone.

I'll get off the Soccer board and leave it to those who know but I will leave with one final comment for the record. I believe Bates at some point in the past 10 or 15 years did have a guy drafted and/or who played in the prevailing pro Soccer league at that time.

I thought I would add the perspective of someone currently in the middle of the pre-senior year recruiting season and who was in-process with Flaherty. My son can attest that the assistant coach, who were we told might be taking over the head coach spot, hasn't shown any improvement on Flaherty's lackadaisical recruiting abilities. And it's not because my kid stinks; he's been to enough nescac recruiting clinics by now to have learned that he is just about as a high level a player as any nescac coach can hope to have in any given year. Not saying that boastfully, but merely to point out how pathetic Bates' recruiting has been: Flaherty screwed up the day appointment when we showed up after traveling halfway across the country, dropped the ball on communication thereafter while busy leaving or getting fired, then this assistant coach did no direct follow-up with my son by way of introduction as the torch was passed, just impersonal camp solicitation emails with outdated information. My son has basically lost all confidence and scratched Bates off the list.

On the positive side, once son's grades and scores ended up pretty high and he got feedback from coaches that he's the kind of player they would use a "tip" for, it opened up a lot more of nescac than I had thought. Son isn't splitting hairs on the schools' academics which to him are all outstanding; the search is on for a good coach who actually tries to get his players to play a quality game. From the clinics he has been to so far, here is what he has discovered so far this summer. Anything to add, anyone?

- Murphy: His intensity really showed. Every second of that clinic was scheduled down to the second. Then, although he was a joke-around kind of guy, he was overly critical and an extreme micromanager. If you scored a goal, somehow he still managed to say you should have shot with the other foot or done xyz differently. My son feels like that guy constantly in his ear is going to shut down his intuitive decision-making process and creativity.

- Elias: Hard to read, very serious, maybe to the point of no fun. Son didn't get a chance to get to know him as he only went for one day. Still don't know much. Anyone have more to add?

- Shapiro: He was definitely the full-of-himself guy playing crap soccer that everyone said he would be. Son figured out for himself that Amherst is no place for a quality midfielder. He doesn't care how good a school it is, or whether he'd make the guy's list, he won't have any part of it.

- Nizzi: very disarming, easy-going guy. Not sure about what it's like to play for him after a one-day clinic. Very forthright; didn't hide anything to parents about the ins and outs of athlete admissions. My personal opinion is that this would be a good bet.

- Weircinski: has been as good on the recruiting side as Murphy. Son has been impressed with his communication. He is at his camp now, and all son has said so far is that the recruits there are no good, but then again by his telling, there have only been a handful of good players in all these clinics combined. In a previous post, someone said Bowdoin "doesn't play pretty." Can someone elaborate on that?

- Tufts: Clinic isn't until the end of July, so we'll see. I have high hopes, though. From previous posts, it sounds like they play as good a game as can be found in nescac... any comments? Son added this school to his list in the 11th hour, though, so he hasn't gotten a sense of the coach.

So far, son hasn't walked away from a clinic thinking, that's the one. He experienced first-hand that the F&M coaches are the "class act" one poster said they were, and if picking a school were only about coaches, he would go with them. I just worry about him playing in that league and getting bored. It's not a good sign that he's a dramatically better player than all this year's incoming freshmen (coach's words). It was his decision forgo D1, but I do think he should try to get a better fit in D3. Where that is, I don't know. Your opinion is appreciated!

blooter442

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Shapiro: He was definitely the full-of-himself guy playing crap soccer that everyone said he would be. Son figured out for himself that Amherst is no place for a quality midfielder. He doesn't care how good a school it is, or whether he'd make the guy's list, he won't have any part of it.

Assuming you meant Serpone? Shapiro is the coach at Tufts, not Amherst, and, in my experience, is not full of himself, or at least not publicly. (Confidence in oneself is one thing; being arrogant is another.) Never met Serpone so I cannot say directly what kind of person he is, but I have been less-than-impressed with some of his histrionics. Personally, I believe some of the distaste towards Amherst/its coaches/style of play (on these boards and elsewhere) is rooted in envy of its success, but given the ubiquity of those claims (and the diverse origins of them) it's hard to say that at least some of the criticism isn't merited.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Weircinski: has been as good on the recruiting side as Murphy. Son has been impressed with his communication. He is at his camp now, and all son has said so far is that the recruits there are no good, but then again by his telling, there have only been a handful of good players in all these clinics combined. In a previous post, someone said Bowdoin "doesn't play pretty." Can someone elaborate on that?
They have been known to sit pretty deep and play direct, although I think it's as much of a function of the players they've had as Wiercinski's philosophy. Then again, maybe that has to do with the "profile" of a typical Bowdoin recruit; Bowdoin has had pretty decent team size but not a ton of trickery or team speed. Then again, with 3 NCAA appearances in 4 years, you can't say it hasn't worked, although they failed to advance past the first weekend of the tournament in that time.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Tufts: Clinic isn't until the end of July, so we'll see. I have high hopes, though. From previous posts, it sounds like they play as good a game as can be found in nescac... any comments? Son added this school to his list in the 11th hour, though, so he hasn't gotten a sense of the coach.
I've watched Tufts for about five years now. They do play a possession style overall, but can play direct when they need to. They kept it on the ground en route to the 2014 title, but were a lot more direct when they won two years later. Last year seemed to be somewhere in the middle. I think their success in recent years has largely been down to adaptability and balance — they have a very deep team that can win games in a number of different ways. As for Shapiro, I have always seen him conduct himself well, and he seems very well-respected by both his players and opponents. Don't think you could go wrong with Tufts.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
So far, son hasn't walked away from a clinic thinking, that's the one. He experienced first-hand that the F&M coaches are the "class act" one poster said they were, and if picking a school were only about coaches, he would go with them. I just worry about him playing in that league and getting bored. It's not a good sign that he's a dramatically better player than all this year's incoming freshmen (coach's words). It was his decision forgo D1, but I do think he should try to get a better fit in D3. Where that is, I don't know. Your opinion is appreciated!
I certainly don't think he would "get bored" in the Centennial Conference. F&M has been the best team in the conference the past five or so years, and seems to do well year-in, year-out (even last year in an uninspired season they still managed to make NCAAs), but that's not to say the conference is not competitive — you've got Dickinson, Haverford, and Johns Hopkins all fully capable of dislodging the Diplomats atop the conference. Moreover, just because he would be the best recruit in his class doesn't mean he's going to score 200 goals and carry the team on his back. Of course, I'm using hyperbole, but I guess my point is that I don't think he would find it "easy" or "boring" playing in F&M's conference.

As a previous poster said, find the best fit school-wise (and community-wise) and don't solely let soccer drive the decision. Whether that means F&M or not is another matter, but — while fully acknowledging that the NESCAC would be more competitive — I don't think you should be quite as concerned about a lack of challenge in the Centennial Conference. And if F&M is a good enough fit and he feels home at there, I think he'd be making a great decision.

mom1234

Quote from: blooter442 on July 19, 2018, 02:50:30 PM
Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Shapiro: He was definitely the full-of-himself guy playing crap soccer that everyone said he would be. Son figured out for himself that Amherst is no place for a quality midfielder. He doesn't care how good a school it is, or whether he'd make the guy's list, he won't have any part of it.

Assuming you meant Serpone? Shapiro is the coach at Tufts, not Amherst, and, in my experience, is not full of himself, or at least not publicly. (Confidence in oneself is one thing; being arrogant is another.) Never met Serpone so I cannot say directly what kind of person he is, but I have been less-than-impressed with some of his histrionics. Personally, I believe some of the distaste towards Amherst/its coaches/style of play (on these boards and elsewhere) is rooted in envy of its success, but given the ubiquity of those claims (and the diverse origins of them) it's hard to say that at least some of the criticism isn't merited.

Yes, I meant Serpone! Just got the names mixed up. He coached the recruits exactly as we had heard he coaches his team.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Weircinski: has been as good on the recruiting side as Murphy. Son has been impressed with his communication. He is at his camp now, and all son has said so far is that the recruits there are no good, but then again by his telling, there have only been a handful of good players in all these clinics combined. In a previous post, someone said Bowdoin "doesn't play pretty." Can someone elaborate on that?
They have been known to sit pretty deep and play direct, although I think it's as much of a function of the players they've had as Wiercinski's philosophy. Then again, maybe that has to do with the "profile" of a typical Bowdoin recruit; Bowdoin has had pretty decent team size but not a ton of trickery or team speed. Then again, with 3 NCAA appearances in 4 years, you can't say it hasn't worked, although they failed to advance past the first weekend of the tournament in that time.

By "team size" I expect you mean big dudes, not size of the roster.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Tufts: Clinic isn't until the end of July, so we'll see. I have high hopes, though. From previous posts, it sounds like they play as good a game as can be found in nescac... any comments? Son added this school to his list in the 11th hour, though, so he hasn't gotten a sense of the coach.
I've watched Tufts for about five years now. They do play a possession style overall, but can play direct when they need to. They kept it on the ground en route to the 2014 title, but were a lot more direct when they won two years later. Last year seemed to be somewhere in the middle. I think their success in recent years has largely been down to adaptability and balance — they have a very deep team that can win games in a number of different ways. As for Shapiro, I have always seen him conduct himself well, and he seems very well-respected by both his players and opponents. Don't think you could go wrong with Tufts.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
So far, son hasn't walked away from a clinic thinking, that's the one. He experienced first-hand that the F&M coaches are the "class act" one poster said they were, and if picking a school were only about coaches, he would go with them. I just worry about him playing in that league and getting bored. It's not a good sign that he's a dramatically better player than all this year's incoming freshmen (coach's words). It was his decision forgo D1, but I do think he should try to get a better fit in D3. Where that is, I don't know. Your opinion is appreciated!
I certainly don't think he would "get bored" in the Centennial Conference. F&M has been the best team in the conference the past five or so years, and seems to do well year-in, year-out (even last year in an uninspired season they still managed to make NCAAs), but that's not to say the conference is not competitive — you've got Dickinson, Haverford, and Johns Hopkins all fully capable of dislodging the Diplomats atop the conference. Moreover, just because he would be the best recruit in his class doesn't mean he's going to score 200 goals and carry the team on his back. Of course, I'm using hyperbole, but I guess my point is that I don't think he would find it "easy" or "boring" playing in F&M's conference.

As a previous poster said, find the best fit school-wise (and community-wise) and don't solely let soccer drive the decision. Whether that means F&M or not is another matter, but — while fully acknowledging that the NESCAC would be more competitive — I don't think you should be quite as concerned about a lack of challenge in the Centennial Conference. And if F&M is a good enough fit and he feels home at there, I think he'd be making a great decision.

Point taken. It does seem like for the moment son is letting soccer drive the decision since most of his campus time is limited to the field. Soccer aside, to him these schools are so similar, and he thinks he'd be pretty happy at just about any of them.

blooter442

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Yes, I meant Serpone! Just got the names mixed up. He coached the recruits exactly as we had heard he coaches his team.

Got it. That's a shame.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
By "team size" I expect you mean big dudes, not size of the roster.

Indeed.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Point taken. It does seem like for the moment son is letting soccer drive the decision since most of his campus time is limited to the field. Soccer aside, to him these schools are so similar, and he thinks he'd be pretty happy at just about any of them.

That's understandable, and from what it sounds like he has options! If in fact he feels he'd be happy at any of them, then I can understand soccer playing more of a role in his decision. I just opined that it shouldn't be his only deciding factor, but it sounds like it is not.

PaulNewman

Decided to browse after a long absence.  Amazing how quickly social media and the internet can get you worked up.

We will know within the first couple of weeks of season where this kid being recruited goes (in 2019?).  He will dominate the league from the start and I've penciled him in as a D3soccer First Team AA selection.  Bored at F&M?  A school that has made about 5 out of the last 6 Sweet 16s?  Hopkins, Haverford, Dickinson, Gettysburg, et al plus a Camden or Messiah and/or Montclair not good enough.  The Ivies mut be hanging all over this kid.  Kudos to him and the family for holding them off.

BTW, I'm not an Amherst apologist by any means.....but the shot at Serpone from the family of a high school rising senior is just ridiculous.  So, if Amherst is the only NESCAC that gives the kid a tip or admission, he's not going?  Because the national champs from 2 years ago don't play pretty enough soccer.  I can't believe all of these 16 and 17 year olds out there with their fine-grained assessments of how truly sharp D3 midfielders should be playing and where.  It's D3 soccer for heaven's sakes.

PaulNewman

And, lol, was Nico Pascuale-Leone a midfielder?  And maybe qualify as a quality midfielder at the D3 level?  Wonder what would his view would be?

SoccerMom_5

Quote from: blooter442 on July 19, 2018, 09:34:24 PM
Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Yes, I meant Serpone! Just got the names mixed up. He coached the recruits exactly as we had heard he coaches his team.

One of my kids thought the same thing.  He had really been leaning towards Amherst academically, but also wanted to play soccer while he was in college.  Ended up not choosing Amherst, and that was one reason. (Also, he didn't think the students at Amherst were as friendly as at the other schools he was considering.)


Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Weircinski: has been as good on the recruiting side as Murphy. Son has been impressed with his communication. He is at his camp now, and all son has said so far is that the recruits there are no good, but then again by his telling, there have only been a handful of good players in all these clinics combined. In a previous post, someone said Bowdoin "doesn't play pretty." Can someone elaborate on that?
They have been known to sit pretty deep and play direct, although I think it's as much of a function of the players they've had as Wiercinski's philosophy. Then again, maybe that has to do with the "profile" of a typical Bowdoin recruit; Bowdoin has had pretty decent team size but not a ton of trickery or team speed. Then again, with 3 NCAA appearances in 4 years, you can't say it hasn't worked, although they failed to advance past the first weekend of the tournament in that time.

My opinion vis-a-vis Bowdoin isn't always appreciated here, but I understand your position as a Mom, and have watched Bowdoin closely,  so I will mention: Wiercinski seems to stack his talent in the back and so the team tends to sit deep. And their midfield was disastrous this past year, so they often had to play more directly than they had played the year before.
Sounds like your son is a decent  midfielder. Bowdoin needed someone in midfield who  could connect this year.
Bowdoin had 5 All-Conference Players this year which was more than any other NESCAC team had (as well as a couple (2? 3?) All-Region, and one All-American) They were just missing the connecting piece in the middle; their backline mostly had to circumvent the midfield to get the ball forward. So...  Your son might be able to step right in as a First Year.  (Except... Bowdoin lost almost their entire starting defense...)

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
So far, son hasn't walked away from a clinic thinking, that's the one. He experienced first-hand that the F&M coaches are the "class act" one poster said they were, and if picking a school were only about coaches, he would go with them. I just worry about him playing in that league and getting bored. It's not a good sign that he's a dramatically better player than all this year's incoming freshmen (coach's words). It was his decision forgo D1, but I do think he should try to get a better fit in D3. Where that is, I don't know. Your opinion is appreciated!

As a previous poster said, find the best fit school-wise (and community-wise) and don't solely let soccer drive the decision.
[/quote]

This!!!

If your kids play Academy or a high-level club soccer, you are not going to find the soccer you are looking for in D3.  The NESCAC is as close as it gets, but a quality u16 or 17 Academy team could beat any of these teams without working very hard at all.  There will be quality kids on each team, but they get spread to thin because there aren't enough of them.   And the coaches don't always seem to recognize what they've got, for various reasons, I suppose. 

Assuming he can get in to all of them, I would suggest that your son should pick the school he likes best.  With the exception of my oldest son eliminating Amherst, and the others not even applying there, as a result...  We discussed the schools from the point of view of: if you blew out your knee in the first week of first preseason, and could never play soccer again, which school would you want to spend the next four years at.  They each chose that way; they each played soccer at their chosen school; they each had frustrations at times, with style and level of play, with coaching issues, and other things... But in the end, they have loved the schools they have chosen and they have really enjoyed being part of their teams. 

I know it is hard to convince a kid of this at the end of junior year, but it has been my experience that ... As they get closer to the end and it comes down to the wire on final choices, they begin to show more wisdom, and are more amenable to considering making a pragmatic choice.

Good luck.  I know the stress you are going through.  I have been through it,  also! :(
In my experience, it all works out okay, and better than you can even imagine when looking at it the summer after 11th grade.  But also in my experience, nothing anyone says makes it feel any better at that point in time.

Best of luck to your student in his college search.  And I hope that you can enjoy watching his u18 year!

PaulNewman

D4 Pace, I'm curious as to your opinion (as a former Academy player and experience with a top-tier D3 program) about the idea that U16 and U17 Academy teams would crush the top 15-20 D3 teams in the country.  Maybe it's just me but I find some of the romanticizing of the Academy experience (and level) a little over the top.

I'm also curious as to whether some of these posters just have incredible integrity in terms of "keeping it real" (a la the Chappelle segment) or are oblivious to what they blurt out.  If you hint that you are from some obscure area in the Midwest and are one of the top recruits in the nation drowning in attractive D1 offers with board scores in a certain range with a specific GPA, one might figure that even these shoddy NESCAC coaches might figure out who you are.  And I imagine the entire midfield of a NESCAC squad includes actual people with names, who might even be good friends with the wonderful defenders on said team.

Also curious as to all the lamenting and angst about the horrible level of play in D3, and all the opportunities to go D1 instead, and yet the decisions to focus on D3 anyway.  I know the usual responses about blowing out a knee and going abroad and go where you's still be happy if not playing soccer, but still....some of these alleged super-skilled intuitive studs might not find D1 so appealing and so friendly to "beautiful soccer"....they might not get to play... and there are plenty of places where I'm sure many kids who "choose" D3 would still be plenty happy if they blew out a knee or never got off the bench in D1.....like, for instance, my alma mater, Davidson (a D1 in D3 clothing), Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, the Ivies, etc, etc.  And if you could be a starter at Duke or UCLA or Cal or Stanford or UVA or UNC or Wake Forest, why wouldn't you go there?

Finally, re: the topic of a super-stud picking a NESCAC, I'm going to give a big vote to Colby....no school has had such a dramatic rise up the USNWR charts, and it is a beautiful campus, and a place where one could bask in the process of taking a program from the bottom all the way to the top.  Improvements already have been noted, and what a thrill to be a leader of a program who could knock off the usual NESCAC heavyweights and make some NCAA noise.  If not seduced by Williams or Amherst, not really needed at Tufts, and not the kind of kid who has a passion for the slightly more unique vibe of a Wesleyan, then I personally would be all over Colby.