Conference changes

Started by hopefan, May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 AM

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Greek Tragedy

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.
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Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Yes, but this situation is causing the NCAA to go back and look at stricter conference requirements.  This isn't the first time this has happened either.  It is, I believe, the first time it's happened for teams who aren't geographic orphans (for the most part).
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ronk

 Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?

Ralph Turner

Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Plus, if you're terrible, Pool B is often out of reach.  If your whole Pool A conference is terrible, you have a chance.
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ronk

Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 11:58:25 AM
Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.

No, Scranton got a Pool B both years and Moravian got an additional one the first year.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 04:19:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 11:58:25 AM
Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.

No, Scranton got a Pool B both years and Moravian got an additional one the first year.
Thanks for the correction.  +1!

jeffconn

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Why not? I believe the NCAA rules are a conference has to play at least one game against every member of your conference unless ALL the members agree to play less. IIRC, this rule was put in place so that a conference couldn't ban a school that was so much better than all the other schools in one sport. If all the ACAA schools agree to not do a round robin schedule, that's their right.

BTW, this fall the ACAA will have six co-ed schools and one women's college that doesn't play basketball. So they are below the threshold for an AQ in every men's sport. They will hit the seven member threshold for women's cross country, volleyball, and soccer, but that won't happen until Pratt becomes an full NCAA Div. 3 member in 2022 or 2023.

jeffconn

About the ACAA, Thomas More College of Kentucky, which just left the President's Athletic Conference and was supposed to join the NAIA in 2019, has just accepted membership in the ACAA effective 2018-19. No idea if this is just a longterm fix, or if Thomas More is just doing this so its teams have a conference championship to play for this year.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180703jc5l0q

jeffconn

By the way, this puts the ACAA at or over the seven member threshold for almost all the sports it sponsors. However, Alfred State University has just accepted full membership in the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference effective 2019-20, so the numbers just go down again.

http://www.amccsports.org/general/2017-18/releases/ASC_Membership

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 01:38:20 PM
About the ACAA, Thomas More College of Kentucky, which just left the President's Athletic Conference and was supposed to join the NAIA in 2019, has just accepted membership in the ACAA effective 2018-19. No idea if this is just a longterm fix, or if Thomas More is just doing this so its teams have a conference championship to play for this year.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180703jc5l0q

The conference championship means nothing in the grand scheme of things... this allows TMC to stay in DIII with some kind of purpose. But long term, they need a better home than the ACAA.

Quote from: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 11:29:27 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Why not? I believe the NCAA rules are a conference has to play at least one game against every member of your conference unless ALL the members agree to play less. IIRC, this rule was put in place so that a conference couldn't ban a school that was so much better than all the other schools in one sport. If all the ACAA schools agree to not do a round robin schedule, that's their right.

Not sure what NCAA rules you are reading... this is all it says in the bylaws for DIII:

Quote
3.3.4.2 Conference Competition.
Member conferences shall conduct conference competition and determine a champion in one or more sports in which the Association conducts championships or for which it is responsible for providing playing rules for intercollegiate competition.

Doesn't really go into any details as to what that means. It says "conduct conference competition," but it doesn't explain any requirements of what that shall mean. I certainly haven't seen language that conferences are to conduct a minimum of one-round schedule unless the entire membership agrees to otherwise. It may be true, but I haven't heard that uttered to me nor can I find the language.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Greek Tragedy

I find it strange that the words "conference championship" are said considering they don't even play a conference schedule. It seems a bit unfair if we were to use any other conference in place of the ACAA, for example.

There's an annual debate with the NESCAC playing a single round-robin and that perceived advantage when regional rankings and NCAA tournament selections are made. What if they didn't even have a conference schedule like the ACAA? There are years when 5 or 6 teams from the NESCAC are considered for the NCAA tourney. What if they didn't even play each other once? Could there be 7 or 8 teams discussed with all having stellar records? Yes, their SOS would be worse, but that hasn't stopped some teams from getting in. What about power conferences like the CCIW, WIAC or UAA? What kind of backlash would there be if they decided to just do a single round-robin like the NESCAC, let alone not even have a conference schedule?
Pointers
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TGHIJGSTO!!!

Ralph Turner


Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 07, 2018, 02:31:41 PM
Frostburg St to D-2 in 2019-20.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/frostburg-state-join-d2

Pending acceptance by DII in some time between the application deadline of Feb. 1 and June 30 of 2019... they also appear to be skipping the transition year which I've been told is ... risky.

I realize acceptance by DII is probably a rubber stamp... but, you just never know. I also have word that there are things going on at the state level that could be interesting. Nothing to be specific about, but I am following things behind the scenes at the state level.
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