Future of Division III

Started by Ralph Turner, October 10, 2005, 07:27:51 PM

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Ralph Turner

Quote from: johnnie_esq on March 28, 2006, 01:08:41 PM
I saw this a few weeks ago in the NCAA News and forgot to post it.  My bad.  Interesting, however- I'll post some highlights:

(A)bout 86 percent of 430 institutions demonstrated statistically that the institutional gift aid they awarded to newly enrolled student-athletes during the 2004-05 academic year was substantially comparable to aid granted to the general student body. In other words, only 57 institutions' aid to student-athletes exceeded the aid awarded to the general student body by at least 4 percent, when comparing students with similar need...

Analyzed further, the data indicate that about 70 percent of Division III institutions awarded less aid on average to student-athletes than they awarded to other students....

An institution posting a variance of -3.15 percent — the Division III median — awarded an average of $432 less in aid to student-athletes than it awarded to other students. However, Division III schools' variances expressed in dollar terms range from negative $2,192, at the 10th percentile mark, to positive $847, at the 90th percentile mark, with the maximum variance reported at $2,878 (student-athletes received that much more on average than nonathletes at an institution at the top end of the range)....

Citing examples, Murphy said the committee reviewed cases where student-athletes tended to live on campus and attend classes during the day — factors that might justify more financial aid — while nonathletes tended to be commuter or night-class students...Student-athletes also may receive more aid than other students for a reason that everyone agrees is positive — because they rank among the best students on campus....

Names of institutions whose cases are referred to the enforcement staff will not be reported publicly, and findings of secondary violations typically are not publicly reported — unless a public release of information is made part of an institution's penalty in accordance with NCAA Bylaws 19 and 32...




Hoops fan, this is the article to which I referred.  Thanks to Johnnie esq.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Yeah, that's what I was talking about as well.  It looks like a lot of athletes are getting the shaft around d3, unless of course there are a disproportionate amount of schools still giving most of their scholarship money based on merit.
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Mr. Ypsi

The left tail of that histogram IS rather extended (though seemingly only about 10% of schools are at -20% of beyond).  I do wonder if schools are SO concerned about being accused of giving athletic scholarships that they bend too far the other way.

Since it is only 40-45 of the 427 schools, perhaps there are idiosyncratic reasons at those particular schools (the athletes tend to come from disproportionately wealthy families, the athletes are less academically talented at those particular schools, etc.), but those at the extreme left end of the tail are quite striking.

The NCAA seems only concerned with those schools on the right tail; there should be attention paid on the other side too.  D3 athletes should not be receiving extra benefits, but they should also not be receiving the shaft due to school fears of the NCAA.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 17, 2006, 05:49:39 PM
the athletes are less academically talented at those particular schools

I expect that's a possibility.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2006, 07:20:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 17, 2006, 05:49:39 PM
the athletes are less academically talented at those particular schools

I expect that's a possibility.

I'm sure that explains some of the schools - but all of them?  Are there some schools where fear of NCAA accusations of favoring athletes means that athletes are actually getting the shaft?

And phrased that way, the answer is undoubtedly yes - I guess the better question would be is this enough schools that there is a problem worth investigating?

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 17, 2006, 07:46:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2006, 07:20:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 17, 2006, 05:49:39 PM
the athletes are less academically talented at those particular schools

I expect that's a possibility.

I'm sure that explains some of the schools - but all of them?  Are there some schools where fear of NCAA accusations of favoring athletes means that athletes are actually getting the shaft?

And phrased that way, the answer is undoubtedly yes - I guess the better question would be is this enough schools that there is a problem worth investigating?

I see the advocacy issue (the group that will "champion" the issue) as the SAAC.

Who knows...

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


How much can the SAAC really do?  Especially in d3.  Maybe it was the exception rather than the norm, but those positions changed pretty frequently in the schools in New England.  I didn't see too many student-athletes who had the time to be truly involved.  Is it more powerful on a national level?
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Ralph Turner

Hoops Fan, I racking my brain to remember the recent issue in which the SAAC was said to have a recent considerable influence. :-\

The Presidents heard the SAAC's opinion and did not follow the recommendation coming from the management council, if I remember correctly. ??? :)

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I just know it was more of a novelty thing at most schools I have contact with.  The AD figures out who will take it seriously, gets them selected as reps and they go to meetings and talk about stuff.  It certainly seems like there is potential for a lot of influence there, but maybe it's not being fully utilized.  It seems like the SAAC reps change all the time.
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Pat Coleman

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 18, 2006, 10:20:18 AM
Hoops Fan, I racking my brain to remember the recent issue in which the SAAC was said to have a recent considerable influence. :-\

The Presidents heard the SAAC's opinion and did not follow the recommendation coming from the management council, if I remember correctly. ??? :)

I believe that was the football spring practice proposal.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

David Collinge

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 18, 2006, 10:20:18 AM
Hoops Fan, I racking my brain to remember the recent issue in which the SAAC was said to have a recent considerable influence. :-\

The Presidents heard the SAAC's opinion and did not follow the recommendation coming from the management council, if I remember correctly. ??? :)

I wouldn't expect the Soccer Academy Alliance Canada to wield much power within the NCAA.  Or did you mean the Shelby American Automobile Club?  Perhaps the Austrian Snow and Avalanche Awareness Camps?

Maybe it is significant that I had to Google "SAAC" to learn that there exists such a thing as the Student-Athlete Advisory Committee.  Then again, maybe it just shows what a clueless boob I am.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I wouldn't have known either except one day when I was a student I ran into a friend who just returned from a meeting and told me about it.  If not for that one chance encounter, I could have gone four years of school, attending every home game of pretty much every sport and a bunch of away games as well without ever knowing of its existence.

That was why I was hoping it wielded more power on a national level than it did locally in New England.
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Ralph Turner

#357
Management Council approves the four Geographic Regions as defined in Division III By-law 4.12.1.1 as a criterion for In-Region Games.  This takes effect on August 1, 2006.

The council will also change opponent's opponents' record to opponents' opponents' winning percentage in 2007-08.

The council said the logistics of the Holiday Rule were too complex to administer.


Pat Coleman

Notice that the old definition of regions does not go away. There are three ways a game can be defined as in-region:

1) Schools are in the same region as defined by that sport's committee.
2) Schools are in the same Region (1, 2, 3, 4) as defined by the NCAA.
3) Schools are 200 miles apart or less, as determined by MS Streets and Trips 2004 on shortest-possible-distance setting.

Any of the three can qualify.

We'll adjust the football schedules appropriately.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.