CCIW

Started by Mr. Ypsi, September 04, 2009, 08:57:08 PM

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KnightFalcon

Wheaton will be fine for the next few years.  They had a huge freshman class and many of them played large minutes during the season.  I think Clark and Musgraves are the real deal and will be big contributors for the next 3 seasons.  Not sure what Giuliano has coming in next year, but if they bring in another strong class, they will be back on the national stage starting next year.  Too much youth hurt them early in the season, but by the time they got to the conference games, the team started to gel and it showed in their record.  I think they would beat Calvin right now so it is ironic (tragic?) that in all likelihood, Calvin took their spot in the tournament.

pad3fan

Greg, I don't really get your "beef" with the Wheaton broadcast. In fairness to any program that broadcasts, Wheaton is one of, if not the best in this area for college soccer. It's not like it is a "network" like FOX, CBS, ESPN, etc. that broadcasts that other sport that thinks it's the real "football!" It would be more like listening to the local broadcast of any pro sports team. WETN is paid for and supported by Wheaton College, it's fans, alumni, etc. To expect that it wouldn't be geared to that group, I don't think would be normal or realistic. I'm sure that North Park could have provided a broadcast of their own, if they would want one slanted toward their team. 

Gregory Sager

North Park does provide a broadcast of its home soccer matches, pad3fan. I have never watched any of them -- I'm almost always in the stands when NPU is playing at home -- but if the PBP and analysis in an NPU soccer webcast was as compromised as Wheaton's was last weekend, I'd say something.

Yes, it's Wheaton's broadcast. Yes, it's expected that the broadcasters will focus upon Wheaton's players, Wheaton's team, Wheaton's relative worthiness in the league, Wheaton's ongoing season, etc. That's pretty obvious. But being "geared to that group" and being "slanted toward their team" doesn't mean "ignore the other team completely to the point where it's invisible."

I am the broadcaster for NPU's men's basketball webcasts. I make it pretty plain on the air that: a) North Park University is producing the webcast; b) the target audience is primarily Vikings fans; and c) I myself am a Vikings fan, to the point that I get excited and put some emotion into my call when North Park makes a great play (as do the Wheaton broadcasters for their team). But here's the difference: I acknowledge the opponent and point out what the opposing players have done (or are doing) right. If they make a great play, I point it out. I give them credit by name. That doesn't compromise me or the fact that I'm doing the webcast on behalf of NPU. I'm simply doing my job as a reporter (which is what a broadcaster is) by being honest and factual about the game at hand. To me, at least, that's the right way to broadcast a game. Otherwise, it's as though you're watching a game where only one team is playing ... and that's absurd on its face.

And this is not me being anti-Wheatie, either. As I said in my previous post, WETN's had some terrific guys behind the mic in the past. I even cited two of them by name, one of whom is now an ESPN employee.

Oh, and I vehemently disagree with the idea that, "Well, it's not a TV network, so it's not a 'real' broadcast ... therefore, it's OK to do a half-assed job." If you're going to do something, do it right, do it professionally, and do it in such a way that you'll be proud to put your name on it.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

pad3fan

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2010, 10:46:15 PM
North Park does provide a broadcast of its home soccer matches, pad3fan. I have never watched any of them -- I'm almost always in the stands when NPU is playing at home -- but if the PBP and analysis in an NPU soccer webcast was as compromised as Wheaton's was last weekend, I'd say something.

Greg, I realize that NPU does home games. If they wanted a more home flavor at the away games, they could do like Wheaton does and send a crew to the away games as well.

Yes, it's Wheaton's broadcast. Yes, it's expected that the broadcasters will focus upon Wheaton's players, Wheaton's team, Wheaton's relative worthiness in the league, Wheaton's ongoing season, etc. That's pretty obvious. But being "geared to that group" and being "slanted toward their team" doesn't mean "ignore the other team completely to the point where it's invisible."

I am the broadcaster for NPU's men's basketball webcasts. I make it pretty plain on the air that: a) North Park University is producing the webcast; b) the target audience is primarily Vikings fans; and c) I myself am a Vikings fan, to the point that I get excited and put some emotion into my call when North Park makes a great play (as do the Wheaton broadcasters for their team). But here's the difference: I acknowledge the opponent and point out what the opposing players have done (or are doing) right. If they make a great play, I point it out. I give them credit by name. That doesn't compromise me or the fact that I'm doing the webcast on behalf of NPU. I'm simply doing my job as a reporter (which is what a broadcaster is) by being honest and factual about the game at hand. To me, at least, that's the right way to broadcast a game. Otherwise, it's as though you're watching a game where only one team is playing ... and that's absurd on its face.
Greg, I was present at the game we are discussing. In addition, I listened to the broadcast. I can understand as a NPU fan you may feel as though the broadcast ignored your team but I can recall times that the announcers spoke of NPU, their fans, Grahn's laser shot for the first goal, that the JR. Hills is a handful come to mind at the moment. Basketball isn't my sport, so I can't say that I have ever listened to one of your broadcasts. From reading your posts on here, I would  expect them to be done well. I guess what I don't get is you feeling the need to "lash out" at the Wheaton crew.To me as a reader here it comes across pretty harsh. 


And this is not me being anti-Wheatie, either. As I said in my previous post, WETN's had some terrific guys behind the mic in the past. I even cited two of them by name, one of whom is now an ESPN employee.

Oh, and I vehemently disagree with the idea that, "Well, it's not a TV network, so it's not a 'real' broadcast ... therefore, it's OK to do a half-assed job." If you're going to do something, do it right, do it professionally, and do it in such a way that you'll be proud to put your name on it.Please re-read what I wrote. I am not sure what you are vehemently disagreeing with.I said nothing of a broadcast not being done well in "comparing the network to the local broadcast." The difference would be like listening to the local broadcast of the Sox or Cubs and listening to the same game being broadcast by ESPN. I would expect the ESPN one to be a more balanced one than the "homeboys." I don't think I said one was real and one wasn't but if that is how it sounded it wasn't my point. I'm sorry if it was confusing that way.

Jim Matson

One of the first good old CCIW-type throw downs on the soccer board!  Now it feels a little like the old CCIW FB board...
Managing Editor, D3soccer.com

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Jim Matson on November 12, 2010, 12:18:58 AM
One of the first good old CCIW-type throw downs on the soccer board!  Now it feels a little like the old CCIW FB board...

Not quite.  On this board Greg gets to talk about NPU wins! :o

(Sorry, Greg - couldn't help myself. :-[)

Gregory Sager

Quote from: pad3fan on November 11, 2010, 11:54:21 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2010, 10:46:15 PM
North Park does provide a broadcast of its home soccer matches, pad3fan. I have never watched any of them -- I'm almost always in the stands when NPU is playing at home -- but if the PBP and analysis in an NPU soccer webcast was as compromised as Wheaton's was last weekend, I'd say something.

Greg, I realize that NPU does home games. If they wanted a more home flavor at the away games, they could do like Wheaton does and send a crew to the away games as well.

No, they couldn't. The funds aren't there for it. Not every school has the money to broadcast road games as well as home games. Only two sports at NPU have webcasts, men's basketball and men's soccer, and both of them only do home games. I'm simply thankful that North Park is putting home men's soccer matches on the web now, even though I don't have the chance to see them.

Quote from: pad3fan on November 11, 2010, 11:54:21 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2010, 10:46:15 PM
Yes, it's Wheaton's broadcast. Yes, it's expected that the broadcasters will focus upon Wheaton's players, Wheaton's team, Wheaton's relative worthiness in the league, Wheaton's ongoing season, etc. That's pretty obvious. But being "geared to that group" and being "slanted toward their team" doesn't mean "ignore the other team completely to the point where it's invisible."

I am the broadcaster for NPU's men's basketball webcasts. I make it pretty plain on the air that: a) North Park University is producing the webcast; b) the target audience is primarily Vikings fans; and c) I myself am a Vikings fan, to the point that I get excited and put some emotion into my call when North Park makes a great play (as do the Wheaton broadcasters for their team). But here's the difference: I acknowledge the opponent and point out what the opposing players have done (or are doing) right. If they make a great play, I point it out. I give them credit by name. That doesn't compromise me or the fact that I'm doing the webcast on behalf of NPU. I'm simply doing my job as a reporter (which is what a broadcaster is) by being honest and factual about the game at hand. To me, at least, that's the right way to broadcast a game. Otherwise, it's as though you're watching a game where only one team is playing ... and that's absurd on its face.
Greg, I was present at the game we are discussing. In addition, I listened to the broadcast. I can understand as a NPU fan you may feel as though the broadcast ignored your team but I can recall times that the announcers spoke of NPU, their fans, Grahn's laser shot for the first goal, that the JR. Hills is a handful come to mind at the moment. Basketball isn't my sport, so I can't say that I have ever listened to one of your broadcasts. From reading your posts on here, I would  expect them to be done well. I guess what I don't get is you feeling the need to "lash out" at the Wheaton crew.To me as a reader here it comes across pretty harsh. 

I have no recollection of the broadcasters saying anything about the Vikings as a team. They did mention the fans in passing at one point, saying that a Wheaton player did not want to have to throw in around the NPU fans -- but if you didn't hear the cheering in the background, you'd never know that the Vikings enjoyed such a huge following at Joe Bean Stadium that night. Their commentary about Sehten Hills was not complimentary about him other than in a backhanded fashion; i.e., Dan Pavlak had him completely marked and had turned him into a non-factor. I do remember them calling Grahn's first goal a "laser shot," and (as I said earlier) they did call him "dangerous" at one point. But that's pretty slim pickings if that's all that you can point out in the entire two-hour broadcast that was complimentary of Wheaton's opponent.

As for what you felt was my harsh tone, I'm probably more sensitive to the poor job that the WETN guys did last Saturday because the Vikings were the neglected opponent in question. But I'm not the only one who noticed it; two other posters here pointed it out as well. As I said, I didn't post those thoughts in order to rattle the cage of Wheaton fans; I did it because it was disappointing to have to listen to commentary that seemed not to notice that Wheaton's opponent even existed.

Quote from: pad3fan on November 11, 2010, 11:54:21 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2010, 10:46:15 PM
And this is not me being anti-Wheatie, either. As I said in my previous post, WETN's had some terrific guys behind the mic in the past. I even cited two of them by name, one of whom is now an ESPN employee.

Oh, and I vehemently disagree with the idea that, "Well, it's not a TV network, so it's not a 'real' broadcast ... therefore, it's OK to do a half-assed job." If you're going to do something, do it right, do it professionally, and do it in such a way that you'll be proud to put your name on it.Please re-read what I wrote. I am not sure what you are vehemently disagreeing with.I said nothing of a broadcast not being done well in "comparing the network to the local broadcast." The difference would be like listening to the local broadcast of the Sox or Cubs and listening to the same game being broadcast by ESPN. I would expect the ESPN one to be a more balanced one than the "homeboys." I don't think I said one was real and one wasn't but if that is how it sounded it wasn't my point. I'm sorry if it was confusing that way.

I'm not sure where you live and thus what you had in mind in your earlier post when talking about a local pro team. For all I knew, it could've been some hick town whose Single A minor-league baseball team has an egregiously slanted broadcaster. The team-oriented broadcasters you cite (Cubs, White Sox) are certainly slanted towards the team they cover, but they are all professional enough to discuss opponents at length when the vicissitudes of the game require it, and they never shirk from complimenting opponents who are accomplished players or who make a great play. It's not about balance per se; it's about honest reporting.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 12, 2010, 03:02:25 PM
Quote from: Jim Matson on November 12, 2010, 12:18:58 AM
One of the first good old CCIW-type throw downs on the soccer board!  Now it feels a little like the old CCIW FB board...

Not quite.  On this board Greg gets to talk about NPU wins! :o

(Sorry, Greg - couldn't help myself. :-[)

You're still here, Chuck? IWU's men's soccer season has been over for two weeks now. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Mr. Ypsi

Yeah, Greg, I'm still here.  And am now a Viking fan (despite your low blow :P).

mr_b

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2010, 10:46:15 PM
But here's the difference: I acknowledge the opponent and point out what the opposing players have done (or are doing) right. If they make a great play, I point it out. I give them credit by name.
Greg,

You're forgetting another key difference -- you actually know something about the opponents North Park plays, far beyond the names on their rosters.

mr_b

North Park goes up 1-0 vs Hope on a goal by Grahn in the 65th minute.

mr_b

North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory!  Congratulations to the team as they move on to face UW Oshkosh tomorrow!

Mr. Ypsi

Way to represent the CCIW, NPU!  Keep it going!

Gregory Sager

You had the feeling that NPU was knocking on the door throughout the first half and early in the second, but the Vikings forwards just couldn't get their timing down on the through passes and they kept getting called offsides. Finally, Kris Grahn and Sehten Hills were able to get the two-man game going and did a beautiful give-and-go that resulted in Grahn's goal. After that, North Park went into a shell; Hope had some nice chances, but Tim Ahlberg had one fantastic lay-out save, and on Hope's best chance of all -- a midfield free kick by keeper Logan Neil -- the ball apparently crossed the goal line but was called offsides (hard to tell, because the UWO camera crew didn't track that particular play).

Congratulations to the Vikings, who not only achieved the school's first-ever NCAA tournament win tonight but the CCIW's first-ever tournament win by a team other than Wheaton. North Park will face host UW-Oshkosh tomorrow night at 6:30.

Great to see so many North Park students braving the long drive and the cold to be at tonight's match, too.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

markerickson

Awesome!  Mpls got 6" of wet, sloppy snow today.  Chicago got cold and showers.  What were/are the conditions in Osh Kosh?
Once a metalhead, always a metalhead.  Matthew 5:13.

Gregory Sager

Congrats to NPU on a very successful season. The Vikings just ran into the wrong team tonight in terms of having to play from behind; UW-Oshkosh has only given up five goals all season, and tonight we saw that there's a reason for that.

Still, any season that includes both the program's first-ever NCAA tourney win and an electrifying win over that orange-colored school over in DuPage County -- on the orange-colored school's home pitch, no less --- to win the CCIW tourney and the NCAA berth has to be considered a big step forward. For as young as the Vikings were this season, I look forward to their continued success in 2011. John Born has North Park soccer moving in the right direction.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell