CCIW

Started by Mr. Ypsi, September 04, 2009, 08:57:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

GarbageGoals33

#375
This is another example of why teams in the north region have a difficult time attempting to root for Loras when they make the NCAA tournament.

Jumping into a thread that has nothing to do with them so they can talk about their team and bash any other team that is brought up... Doesn't make much sense.

I had a chance to meet some NPU fans when they traveled to Gustavus in 2006 for their NCAA game versus Wartburg.  They seemed like a decent group of people.  They actually had a section of fans that were cheering throughout the game which made for an enjoyable environment.  It was much more enjoyable then listening to Wartburg parents complain throughout the match. 

d3fan1

gg33, Are you saying some Loras fans are overbearing, immature, and act like they've never been there before?  ;D

GarbageGoals33

Correct.

Only some though.

blue_jays

Ugh, now I have to defend Sager by default. How painful  ;). However, he doth own superior prose and reasoning to Mister Idaho.
After having seen both Loras and North Park this season, I'm a bit divided. Loras is stacked with seniors and Malcolm Calbert is studly. North Park has its equivalency in talent but is young and untested with so many new starters. On a neutral field, it's a real toss-up. The factors it would come down to are defense and health. Both teams can score and have great offensive players. When/if Grahn is healthy, he is probably the X-factor. I found Robin Hals impressive as well.
Dominican confuses me. They aren't as good as last year, but they are still elite and rock solid across the board. However, they've also put up a few stinkers, most notably to Loras. They are definite #3 behind both teams mentioned above.
Since Elmhurst hasn't had soccer very long, I don't have a real dog in this race. My dislike for North Park is mostly directed at select players. I prefer stoicism out of my players rather than a proclivity to whiny tantrums. I've got big respect for John Born and his ability to build his program to where it is now. I have equal respect for Dan Rothert who is simultaneously running two nationally-ranked programs.

IdahoSoccer

Luckily this isnt a popularity contest guys. Dont take this stuff to heart, everybody is getting a little worked up. If the teams in the North don't want to root for Loras in the NCAA tourny oh well (Young greg is going to kill me for mentioning the North in the CCIW forum, your fault GG), maybe the teams of the North should focus on making the tourny more and not rooting for other teams  ;D.

Quote from: d3fan1 on October 10, 2011, 12:14:41 PM
gg33, Are you saying some Loras fans are overbearing, immature, and act like they've never been there before?  ;D

If being overbearing, immature, "never been there before" is being in the last four straight sweet 16s, 2 of the last four final fours. I dont want to be anything else guys, guilty as charged.

"Closed mouths dont get fed"

keeker

#380
Quote from: FreeScrimp on October 08, 2011, 11:02:23 PM
North Park 3 Wheaton 2.

Stats leaned Wheaton's way as far as shots and corner kicks, although Park capitalized on their opportunities. A few inches right and they'd be in overtime, but a post is a post. I love this rivalry and look forward to many more games in the future. First and foremost, It will be a joy to watch these two in the CCIW finals come November.

So what is it with the Thunders? Never seen them go this long without making noise in ncaas. Is it giuliano? He seems to recruit well but doesn't seem to know what to do with'em. Hussey and Clark were loved by richardson whereas cavers was basically pushed out. Musgrave was sought after player out west as well.

Christan Shirk

Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 10, 2011, 12:04:44 AMthe 2011 handbook isn't out yet, or at least it isn't available on the NCAA website

Actually it has been out for at least a couple weeks.  It has a slightly new name, now called a Pre-Championship Manual and it serves for both men and women.  And as seems to be the norm with the NCAA, they are always changing where they locate such stuff on their family of websites making it an adventure to find if in fact it has already been made available.  *sigh*

Anyway, here's the page that has the link to the manual:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/sports+and+championship/soccer/mens/division+iii/index+-+diii+mens+soccer

And here's the direct link to the manual:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/3100a180486425439425ffb1fe52de76/MAN_PreChamps_DIII_Soccer_11.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=3100a180486425439425ffb1fe52de76

One new twist this year that I will draw your attention to: 
QuoteAPPENDIX C
Section C•1 MEN'S STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE MULTIPLIER

Beginning with the 2011 season, the calculation of strength of schedule for Division III men's soccer will include a statistical component giving more value to away games (i.e., games played on the road). A multiplier of 1.25 will be factored into the opponents' average winning percentage (OWP) and opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP) for away games and a multiplier of 0.85 be factored into the OWP and OOWP for home games.
Interesting.
Christan Shirk
Special Consultant and Advisor
D3soccer.com

KICKIN95

Quote from: GarbageGoals33 on October 10, 2011, 12:18:27 PM
Correct.

Only some though.
I feel so alone sometimes! :-(

Master of all things "DuHawk"

Wormburner

Oh com'on KICKIN, I'm always "sending the love" your way.  Circumstances, and the occasional burst of discretion, just keep me from posting 99% of what I know...

Gregory Sager

Quote from: blue_jays on October 10, 2011, 12:38:38 PM
Ugh, now I have to defend Sager by default. How painful  ;).

We all have our crosses to bear. ;)

Quote from: blue_jays on October 10, 2011, 12:38:38 PMHowever, he doth own superior prose and reasoning to Mister Idaho.

For the record, two smacks of a troll is my limit -- they'll own the thread if you keep responding to them -- so I'm through bantering with Spudboy. But, as far as NPU and Loras is concerned, it is interesting that you've seen both sides, blue_jays, and thus have a basis for comparing them. Good to file that away for future use in case this matchup comes to fruition in the tourney and we need a preview from an eyewitness who has enough soccer acumen to speak intelligently about that matchup.

Quote from: Christan Shirk on October 10, 2011, 08:35:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 10, 2011, 12:04:44 AMthe 2011 handbook isn't out yet, or at least it isn't available on the NCAA website

Actually it has been out for at least a couple weeks.  It has a slightly new name, now called a Pre-Championship Manual and it serves for both men and women.  And as seems to be the norm with the NCAA, they are always changing where they locate such stuff on their family of websites making it an adventure to find if in fact it has already been made available.  *sigh*

Anyway, here's the page that has the link to the manual:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/sports+and+championship/soccer/mens/division+iii/index+-+diii+mens+soccer

And here's the direct link to the manual:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/3100a180486425439425ffb1fe52de76/MAN_PreChamps_DIII_Soccer_11.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=3100a180486425439425ffb1fe52de76

One new twist this year that I will draw your attention to: 
QuoteAPPENDIX C
Section C•1 MEN'S STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE MULTIPLIER

Beginning with the 2011 season, the calculation of strength of schedule for Division III men's soccer will include a statistical component giving more value to away games (i.e., games played on the road). A multiplier of 1.25 will be factored into the opponents' average winning percentage (OWP) and opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP) for away games and a multiplier of 0.85 be factored into the OWP and OOWP for home games.
Interesting.

First of all, thanks, Christan, both for finding the new handbook Pre-Championship Manual on that labyrinthine mess of an NCAA website and for linking to it. Second, thanks for drawing our attention to the new SOS wrinkle. It's actually the same -- or at least very, very close -- to the SOS multiplier that D3 added for the men's basketball tournament last season, which makes me wonder if this is something that's coming down from a higher authority than the championship committees of the various D3 sports. I'll have to ask one of our oracles who can interpret NCAA Bureaucratese (Pat Coleman and Ralph Turner) if, indeed, the SOS multipliers are coming from a higher source or if it's just a case of the various D3 sports committees playing copycat.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

#385
Congrats to NPU junior Erik Kinhammar, who today became the Park's fifth different player to win CCIW Player of the Week. He and Elvin Ahmeti have done a terrific job of filling in as the center backs since Jakob Aronsson and Carl Danberg were injured in the Elmhurst match.

Quote from: keeker on October 10, 2011, 02:23:39 PMSo what is it with the Thunders? Never seen them go this long without making noise in ncaas. Is it giuliano? He seems to recruit well but doesn't seem to know what to do with'em. Hussey and Clark were loved by richardson whereas cavers was basically pushed out. Musgrave was sought after player out west as well.

In defense of Giuliano, he has had size 18EEE shoes to fill. Joe Bean set stratospheric standards that any coach would have a difficult time meeting: Wheaton made appearances in 29 of the first 33 D3 tourneys during his tenure, and won two of them, and set the NCAA record for consecutive matches without a loss in the late '90s. And he accomplished this in spite of the fact that for the first twenty years he was at Wheaton he had to run the program without the CCIW's auspices, and even after the CCIW began sponsoring the sport it took another dozen years before any of the other programs became competent enough to give Wheaton a good annual challenge. The only other CCIW coach who has developed a better legacy is North Central men's cross-country coach Al Carius. With a predecessor like that, it's almost inevitable that a coach will fall short by comparison, so in a way your criticism of Giuliano really isn't fair.

But, yeah, it's been awhile since Wheaton's made any noise in the tournament. In Giuliano's first year (2007) Wheaton was eliminated in the second round, and in the following two years it was eliminated in the first round. Last year, of course, Wheaton failed to make the tourney for the first time since 1992, and if the Orange and Blue are unable to win the CCIW tourney next month it'll mean their first back-to-back seasons left sitting at home during the D3 tournament since 1979 and 1980. This is the first time that Wheaton has gone three years without a tourney win since the D3 soccer tourney began in 1974, and Giuliano's program is in danger of 2011 becoming the fourth year of that string.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

The Sock Heir

Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 11, 2011, 06:44:37 PM
Congrats to NPU junior Erik Kinhammar, who today became the Park's fifth different player to win CCIW Player of the Week. He and Elvin Ahmeti have done a terrific job of filling in as the center backs since Jakob Aronsson and Carl Danberg were injured in the Elmhurst match.

Quote from: keeker on October 10, 2011, 02:23:39 PMSo what is it with the Thunders? Never seen them go this long without making noise in ncaas. Is it giuliano? He seems to recruit well but doesn't seem to know what to do with'em. Hussey and Clark were loved by richardson whereas cavers was basically pushed out. Musgrave was sought after player out west as well.

In defense of Giuliano, he has had size 18EEE shoes to fill. Joe Bean set stratospheric standards that any coach would have a difficult time meeting: Wheaton made appearances in 29 of the first 33 D3 tourneys during his tenure, and won two of them, and set the NCAA record for consecutive matches without a loss in the late '90s. And he accomplished this in spite of the fact that for the first twenty years he was at Wheaton he had to run the program without the CCIW's auspices, and even after the CCIW began sponsoring the sport it took another dozen years before any of the other programs became competent enough to give Wheaton a good annual challenge. The only other CCIW coach who has developed a better legacy is North Central men's cross-country coach Al Carius. With a predecessor like that, it's almost inevitable that a coach will fall short by comparison, so in a way your criticism of Giuliano really isn't fair.

But, yeah, it's been awhile since Wheaton's made any noise in the tournament. In Giuliano's first year (2007) Wheaton was eliminated in the second round, and in the following two years it was eliminated in the first round. Last year, of course, Wheaton failed to make the tourney for the first time since 1992, and if the Orange and Blue are unable to win the CCIW tourney next month it'll mean their first back-to-back seasons left sitting at home during the D3 tournament since 1979 and 1980. This is the first time that Wheaton has gone three years without a tourney win since the D3 soccer tourney began in 1974, and Giuliano's program is in danger of 2011 becoming the fourth year of that string.

I, personally, believe that Wheaton does not have the same level of talent of 3 or 4 years ago. Hence, they are not performing because they are simply not as talented as a North Park or any of their 5 other loses.

Jim Matson

#387
The Wheaton success story has shifted over to the women's side for the time being.

The men had a national championship in the 1980s and were a potent team during that decade. And after two or three years of rest, they awakened and were a top 5 team from 95 through 99, playing in two national championships, winning one and losing the other.

Picking up where the boys left off, the women got into the quarters in 2000, and won the crown in 2004, 2006, and 2007. They played again for the title in 2008 and lost (an interesting fact; those nasty evangelicals ;) have won every women's championship since 2004! Messiah, Wheaton, and Hardin-Simmons are on quite a roll).

But if one examines the success of these Wheaton teams, it always come down to one or maybe two special players that make that small difference; that one subtle advantage over the field of opponents, which is always tough (Loras, Messiah, Dominican, Trinity, Messiah, Williams, Wash U., etc.). I think what we are seeing in Wheaton play now is the absence of that one player who can win the match when needed, or that one leader who can rally the troops to greatness.

I've seen many teams over the years that have a ton of talent, and yet never make it to the Final Four, much less win a championship. Even with special talent, there are plenty of other variables that can get in the way. Talk to the York (Pa.) men's team or the Johns Hopkins women's team; two programs that have been dominant over the last seven years in men's and women's play; truly been at the top in terms of talent. Yet no rings!

Wheaton was blessed with a small handful of great individuals over the years. I believe that now as North Park is building a tradition and supporting that tradition with strong recruiting, they will continuously improve. It has been more than a few years now that the Park has been better than good. Thus, I'll bet they will "surprisingly" end up with that one player who will indeed get them to the top. And it won't be an accident.
Managing Editor, D3soccer.com

keeker

Yes i agree that Giuliano has big shoes to fill. But he does get cream of the crop players. I see him all the time at DA games trying to recruit and he does get some of em. But then I see so many other d3 coaches hanging around at da games as well. Maybe you're right Jim. He needs that one or two players to take the team to the elite level. His recruiting class this year was so so and i heard he lost couple recruits to u chicago and carleton. Yep, npu is building something there and it's going to be interesting next few seasons.

Gotberg

Quote from: keeker on October 12, 2011, 12:05:48 AM
Yes i agree that Giuliano has big shoes to fill. But he does get cream of the crop players. I see him all the time at DA games trying to recruit and he does get some of em. But then I see so many other d3 coaches hanging around at da games as well. Maybe you're right Jim. He needs that one or two players to take the team to the elite level. His recruiting class this year was so so and i heard he lost couple recruits to u chicago and carleton. Yep, npu is building something there and it's going to be interesting next few seasons.

What are DA games?
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best