FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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wally_wabash

Quote from: formerd3db on February 21, 2014, 08:08:40 AM
I'm not sure how many of you have been following the hearings on the union organizing bid that some Northwestern University players are trying to pull (no doubt many of you are).  However, I had to laugh at the statement that former outgoing (graduating) QB Kain Colter made in his testimony yesterday that he couldn't take the pre-med curriculum due to his not having enough time to do so because of his football activities!  What a joke and the most lame excuse.  There are plenty of examples of players at his school and the DI level (not to forget mentioning all those football players who do it at DIII and some at DII) who make the time and "make the grade" in pre-med and go on medical school while participating in football all four years.  He seems to forget it is a matter of "time management", which it seems he chose to concentrate merely on his football activities.  Or perhaps he just didn't have what it takes to "cut it" in pre-med, although since he is obviously graduating from Northwestern, that tells me the former premise is really the answer.  You make your own choices and live with the consequences.

Also, I don't know where most of you stand on this issue, however, I'll just offer my own opinion here.  I am not in favor of this union bid, yet if it is allowed, then the players should be made to pay taxes and that taken out of their pay, just like everyone else is mandated to do.  It is interesting because we haven't heard one word at all about that aspect during these hearings-at least it has not been reported on in the media (although the latter doesn't surprise me).  Obviously, we'll have to wait and see how this hearing turns out, although if it is ruled in favor, I think there will be even more of a mess to deal with in college football. >:( :(  Anyway, what are some of your thoughts anyone?

I like the Olympic amateurism model.  I don't think schools should pay student-athletes (beyond scholarships), but whatever a kid can get out in the private marketplace is his own business.  If John Manziel can get some dope to give him a few grand for some signatures, good for John.   

There's also the issue of schools and the NCAA itself profiting endlessly from merch sales using player likenesses and identities.  That's maybe a separate issue, but they probably need to deal with that also. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: wally_wabash on February 21, 2014, 10:01:52 AM
Quote from: formerd3db on February 21, 2014, 08:08:40 AM
I'm not sure how many of you have been following the hearings on the union organizing bid that some Northwestern University players are trying to pull (no doubt many of you are).  However, I had to laugh at the statement that former outgoing (graduating) QB Kain Colter made in his testimony yesterday that he couldn't take the pre-med curriculum due to his not having enough time to do so because of his football activities!  What a joke and the most lame excuse.  There are plenty of examples of players at his school and the DI level (not to forget mentioning all those football players who do it at DIII and some at DII) who make the time and "make the grade" in pre-med and go on medical school while participating in football all four years.  He seems to forget it is a matter of "time management", which it seems he chose to concentrate merely on his football activities.  Or perhaps he just didn't have what it takes to "cut it" in pre-med, although since he is obviously graduating from Northwestern, that tells me the former premise is really the answer.  You make your own choices and live with the consequences.

Also, I don't know where most of you stand on this issue, however, I'll just offer my own opinion here.  I am not in favor of this union bid, yet if it is allowed, then the players should be made to pay taxes and that taken out of their pay, just like everyone else is mandated to do.  It is interesting because we haven't heard one word at all about that aspect during these hearings-at least it has not been reported on in the media (although the latter doesn't surprise me).  Obviously, we'll have to wait and see how this hearing turns out, although if it is ruled in favor, I think there will be even more of a mess to deal with in college football. >:( :(  Anyway, what are some of your thoughts anyone?

I like the Olympic amateurism model.  I don't think schools should pay student-athletes (beyond scholarships), but whatever a kid can get out in the private marketplace is his own business.  If John Manziel can get some dope to give him a few grand for some signatures, good for John.   

There's also the issue of schools and the NCAA itself profiting endlessly from merch sales using player likenesses and identities.  That's maybe a separate issue, but they probably need to deal with that also.

I agree with this, wally, apologies for the repetition.  I'd prefer to avoid direct paychecks for participating in a sport, but I think it's ridiculous that players aren't allowed to profit from their own likeness.  Signatures, endorsements, whatever they can get.  If T. Boone Pickens is going to start dropping $100K for top recruits to shoot a quick commercial for his car-salesman pal if they commit to Oklahoma State, oh well.  My father has made an excellent point that I happen to agree with: if I'm a top-notch computer science student at Carnegie Mellon University, I am free to start my own web-design business on the side and profit from it, and no one will kick me out of the computer-science program (one of my good friends in school did this and it ultimately became his "first job" upon graduation).  If I'm a talented musician, I am free to start playing gigs for pay, and no one threatens to kick me out of the music program.  I don't particularly like it that college students in other fields are able to start their own businesses, or use their own name, but heaven forbid a kid on a D1 scholarship attempt to start his own business or, basically, make money in any way.  This case comes to mind:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/sports/wrestler-hoping-to-inspire-through-song-loses-eligibility.html?_r=0

"Because Bauman performed under his own name and identified himself as a Minnesota wrestler, the N.C.A.A. ruled him ineligible for the remainder of the season.  J. T. Bruett, Minnesota's compliance director, said Bauman violated an N.C.A.A. bylaw prohibiting student-athletes from using their name, image or status as an athlete to promote the sale of a commercial product."

As for the initial post re: completing a pre-med curriculum, formerd3db, I understand your point about how many athletes (including yourself) have successfully navigated pre-med curriculum while playing a collegiate sport, but I don't think you're giving Kain Colter enough credit.  I suspect that Kain Colter is a fine young man who, under advice of his legal counsel, will say anything that has any reasonable grounding in truth to help this go through, and I would probably do the same in his position.  Doesn't every legal case have some amount of posturing and stretching of the truth?

Maybe he could have gone pre-med, maybe not.  Perhaps it was once a dream and a coach told him "Son, you can give it a shot, but that's going to be a hell of a difficult thing to pull off while you are trying to win the QB position here" (which is no crime on the coaches' part, he's just stating a fact).  I think he and his legal team are just seeking a way to get the point across that playing on a Division I team is a tremendous commitment that does NOT build upon the school's academic mission (recall that one of the key points in the case seems to be the question of whether an athlete's participation in the sport is really part of their education).

Honestly, for Colter and the players in the suit, I don't think winning the unionization battle is as important as getting some sort of place at the table and taking a bit of a stand.  As I said already, I don't particularly WANT athletes getting paid by the schools, but I hope that this lawsuit does lead to a sea change allowing athletes control of their own image and the right to profit from their own likeness. 

If it ultimately leads to a stipend, I'll live with that, too.  One of the arguments floated against this is that the richest schools will have an advantage because they might be able to pay the kids more.  Uh, well, the richest schools already have an advantage, it's just that they attract top recruits by pouring all that extra cash into insane facilities and "extras" for players that don't quite count as "paying" the kids, but I believe it would help the athletes more to get a stipend check every month instead of the schools paying zillions of dollars to have an iPad in every kid's locker and a lounge with a dozen Xbox 360's and a training table with Muscle Milk available 24 hours a day.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

Gregory Sager

NPU's 2013 highlight film is now posted on YouTube. It was edited by Mike Conway's wife, Beth Ann, and she did a great job. I'm pretty keen on it, since my play-by-play calls are used in a couple of spots. It's my YouTube debut. ;)

The best part about it, of course, is that it's the first NPU football highlight film that I can remember that has ten minutes' worth of legitimate highlights. That fact speaks for itself.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

formerd3db

#30228
Wally and ExTartanPlayer:

Good points and discussion.  ExTartan, I will only add that my comments about Colter in no way were disparaging his intellect, etc., because again, he is a very smart young man, otherwise he would not have been able to get through Northwestern's academic curriculum in whatever he chose to do. There are many examples of DI top players (I could cite some examples from U of Michigan) who have completed the pre-med curriculum and gone on to careers in medicine.  Yet, you make my point in that his comments, if he was doing so at the advice of his/their lawyers lobbying for this misguided idea, he is being very disingenuous about this, which I absolutely believe is the truth.  And that is one of the problems in our society today and that, as you say, some lawyers will say and promote anything just to win the case and please, no stones thrown at me from our lawyer colleagues/friends here because there are many good ones that "take the high road" and do a great job.  IMO, this entire issue is a joke, but as we all know, in the end "the powers that be" are going to do what they want.  And the NCAA is not without fault here as you guys have pointed out as well.

Anyway, we'll obviously all be following this and see what plays out. :)  Thanks for both of your opinions.
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

ExTartanPlayer

#30229
Quote from: formerd3db on February 26, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Wally and ExTartanPlayer:

Good points and discussion.  ExTartan, I will only add that my comments about Colter in no way were disparaging his intellect, etc., because again, he is a very smart young man, otherwise he would not have been able to get through Northwestern's academic curriculum in whatever he chose to do. There are many examples of DI top players (I could cite some examples from U of Michigan) who have completed the pre-med curriculum and gone on to careers in medicine.  Yet, you make my point in that his comments, if he was doing so at the advice of his/their lawyers lobbying for this misguided idea, he is being very disingenuous about this, which I absolutely believe is the truth.  And that is one of the problems in our society today and that, as you say, some lawyers will say and promote anything just to win the case and please, no stones thrown at me from our lawyer colleagues/friends here because there are many good ones that "take the high road" and do a great job.  IMO, this entire issue is a joke, but as we all know, in the end "the powers that be" are going to do what they want.  And the NCAA is not without fault here as you guys have pointed out as well.

Anyway, we'll obviously all be following this and see what plays out. :)  Thanks for both of your opinions.

I think this is true, and I agree that this is a problem in "society" today, but given the parameters in which "society" currently operates, I'll give Kain Colter a lot of credit for being the guy who finally stood up and decided to make a fight of this using whatever means he could (a quote from the movie Ali comes to mind when he says "clean cut Muslims in a parade on the South Side of Chicago ain't gonna get this done").  The NCAA has generally benefited from the transient nature of student-athletes; kids graduate college and move on every few years.  Without Colter (or someone) taking a first step, this would have continued indefinitely.

As I said: I don't believe that full-blown unionization is the real endgame here, but I think it was a necessary first step in the effort to force some kind of systematic change.  I know that some old codgers don't care for the "plight" of Division I athletes, who do indeed enjoy a scholarship and some luxurious benefits, but in my mind that's part of the problem: the "benefits" granted these athletes are not what would "benefit" them the most.  The richest schools still try to "buy" kids, they just do it by piling zillions of dollars into the fanciest imaginable facilities, equipment, and uniforms.  Instead, why not just let them pay the players a little bit of cash, which probably benefits the poor kid from the west side of Memphis a little more than having an Xbox in the players' lounge and an iPad to store his playbook on?  Or at least, for crying out loud, let the kid keep money from signing autographs, or endorsements.  That's a far greater crime, to me, not allowing the athletes to profit from their own likeness (and the even more asinine violations, like secondary stuff where a coach isn't allowed to loan a kid some money for a plane ticket home, or buy the kid a damn cheeseburger after a workout without reporting it to the NCAA).

To be sure, no one "forces" a Division I athlete into this "predicament" - but that's not a reason to keep the status quo.  It's sort of like people during the NBA lockout complaining that NBA players are overpaid because they would gladly play basketball for $1 million a year, so the players should just accept the owners' terms (separate conversation, the deepest circle of hell is reserved for owners of the major sports teams) and shut up and take $1 million a year instead of $2 million.  Well, there's a big difference between you and NBA players: no one is going to fork over $500 for courtside seats to watch YOU play basketball.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

Gregory Sager

Quote from: formerd3db on February 26, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Anyway, we'll obviously all be following this and see what plays out. :)

Not true. I won't. ;D

I just don't care about D1 athletics anymore. Once upon a time I did, but that was many moons ago. I can't find anything positive to say nowadays about D1 sports. I'm a D3 guy, and proud of it.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

izzy stradlin

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2014, 08:23:01 PM
Quote from: formerd3db on February 26, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Anyway, we'll obviously all be following this and see what plays out. :)

Not true. I won't. ;D

I just don't care about D1 athletics anymore. Once upon a time I did, but that was many moons ago. I can't find anything positive to say nowadays about D1 sports. I'm a D3 guy, and proud of it.

Preach!   I'm with Greg.      D1 is big business.   Might as well pay the work force. 

NCF

Quote from: izzy stradlin on February 26, 2014, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2014, 08:23:01 PM
Quote from: formerd3db on February 26, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Anyway, we'll obviously all be following this and see what plays out. :)

Not true. I won't. ;D

I just don't care about D1 athletics anymore. Once upon a time I did, but that was many moons ago. I can't find anything positive to say nowadays about D1 sports. I'm a D3 guy, and proud of it.






Preach!   I'm with Greg.      D1 is big business.   Might as well pay the work force.


They already pay the athletes. It's called a scholarship(and all the perks that go with it) If  that's not good enough for them, just quit your sport and pay for college like everyone else does.
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

izzy stradlin

Quote from: NCF on February 26, 2014, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: izzy stradlin on February 26, 2014, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2014, 08:23:01 PM
Quote from: formerd3db on February 26, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Anyway, we'll obviously all be following this and see what plays out. :)

Not true. I won't. ;D

I just don't care about D1 athletics anymore. Once upon a time I did, but that was many moons ago. I can't find anything positive to say nowadays about D1 sports. I'm a D3 guy, and proud of it.






Preach!   I'm with Greg.      D1 is big business.   Might as well pay the work force.


They already pay the athletes. It's called a scholarship(and all the perks that go with it) If  that's not good enough for them, just quit your sport and pay for college like everyone else does.

Exactly.   They're already doing it.   Why wage fix?     It's all dumb.         I'll stick with D3.

Langhorst_Ghost

Quote from: NCF on February 26, 2014, 09:06:05 PM
They already pay the athletes. It's called a scholarship(and all the perks that go with it) If  that's not good enough for them, just quit your sport and pay for college like everyone else does.

I found this Point/Counterpoint discussion to be a very lively conversation on the topic.  Worth a read in my mind: http://thesportjournal.org/article/pointcounterpoint-paying-college-athletes/
It's a Great Day to be a Jay!

ExTartanPlayer

#30235
Quote from: NCF on February 26, 2014, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: izzy stradlin on February 26, 2014, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2014, 08:23:01 PM
Quote from: formerd3db on February 26, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Anyway, we'll obviously all be following this and see what plays out. :)

Not true. I won't. ;D

I just don't care about D1 athletics anymore. Once upon a time I did, but that was many moons ago. I can't find anything positive to say nowadays about D1 sports. I'm a D3 guy, and proud of it.

Preach!   I'm with Greg.      D1 is big business.   Might as well pay the work force.

They already pay the athletes. It's called a scholarship(and all the perks that go with it) If  that's not good enough for them, just quit your sport and pay for college like everyone else does.

See, I used to think this way, but now I find it such a cop-out to say "they already are getting paid because they're on scholarship, if they don't like it they should quit" and here's why.  In no other career path (at least, none that I can think of, give me an example if you have one) are the workers so blatantly exploited between the ages of 18-21 because they are unable to profit from their own talents, a product that people are willing to pay them for, because "they're already getting paid with a scholarship."  As I said earlier: if I'm a talented musician in college, and I start a band, I'm allowed to play music and profit from it (even if I'm on a music scholarship).  If I'm a talented computer programmer, I can start my own business and get paid (even if the CS department is giving me a full ride).  If I'm a competitive poker player, I can go to Vegas and win money playing poker. 

If I'm a football player...I'm not allowed to play professional football until my high school class is three years removed from graduation, so I can either train independently for three years and hope that an NFL team drafts me anyway, or I can go play college football.  If I'm a basketball player...same thing, except that the current rules only force me to wait one year (although this will soon change, as NBA commissioner Adam Silver seems to support a 20-year-old age minimum).  The alternative would be for me to try to start my own league for athletes 1-3 years removed from high school, see if I could get a few hundred people on board, plus a few billionaires to foot the bill for a stadium/arena(s) and someone to get TV contracts, and that's pretty obviously a daunting mountain for an 18-year-old kid to climb.  So, realistically, if my goal is to make money by playing a sport, I have to go play in college.  That's a major point, in my mind; like I said, the whole "they should just quit and pay for college like everyone else" argument ignores that musicians, artists, and basically anyone else at that age who could find someone willing to pay for their product is allowed to do so.

OK, so I take my scholarship and go play college football or basketball, a product that millions of people will watch on television and in stadiums, a product that makes the University millions of dollars in revenue (notice that I said revenue, not profit, we'll revisit that in a moment).  It will make me famous, in fact, perhaps even famous enough that someone will pay me to appear in a commercial or sign some autographs.  Except, wait, I'm not allowed to take that money...because...why, exactly?  Because the richer schools will find a way to funnel more money to their players through these methods, so Oregon will get better players because Phil Knight will start ripping $100K checks to every Oregon player for shooting a quick Nike ad?  As I said earlier: the richer schools already find ways to leverage their deeper pockets to their advantage by putting up these absolute palaces (big-time Division I football facilities are often nicer than NFL teams' facilities) and figuring out every possible perk that they can sneak to the athletes without it being an actual "payment."  The reason that most big-time athletic departments run at a loss, or at a breakeven point, is not paying for scholarships, nor would it be paying the athletes a few thousand bucks a year.  It's because they fly the kids to games on private charters, and spend a gazillion dollars refurbishing the weight room, and buy new practice jerseys, cleats, t-shirts every year, and have tubs of every supplement imaginable sitting there for kids at all hours of the day.

Not only am I not allowed to get paid for playing...I'm not even allowed to sell my own personal property, like a gameworn jersey or a championship ring!  (Of course, I'd like to think that if I'd won an SEC championship, I'd want to keep the ring, but ask me that again if I'm ever a 19-year-old kid who can't pay his rent for the next year without a few extra bucks, and keep in mind that I can't realistically get a job to make those extra G's because of the time commitments of being a Division 1 athlete). 

Or, perhaps even sillier, my coach or anyone considered a booster can't loan me a couple thousand bucks to help me out, not even a family member of a teammate.  That's one of the most absurd parts to me; suppose that a wealthy kid from the suburbs and a not-so-wealthy kid from the inner city are recruited together, and they hit it off and become friends, and as upperclassmen the father of the wealthy kid from the suburbs wants to put his kid up in a nice apartment.  Except, the rent is a little steep for the not-so-wealthy kid's folks, so the father of the wealthy kid agrees to pay the rent because he can afford it and doesn't want anyone worrying about the money.  Seems reasonable, no?  Ahem...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2486792

This case stands as one of the most outrageous "Wait, are you kidding me?" moments of NCAA ludicrousy (that's not even a word, I'm making it up).  I'm hardly a USC apologist, but I really think that's particularly outrageous.  If I'm a regular kid going to college, my dad can foot the bill for a house/apartment for me and my buddies to live in...but if I'm a scholarship athlete, watch out, don't do that!


***Edited later to clarify: I realize that the "they're already getting paid with a scholarship" folks might take issue with my assertion that they players are not being allowed to profit from their own talents because you may view the scholarship as payment/profit.  Fine - but my point is that, in a free market, they could get more than that, only the NCAA will not loosen the reins to allow any sort of free market, not even to allow athletes to accept endorsement deals.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

badgerwarhawk

The impression that I've gotten is that the main issues concerning college athletes who support unionizing  are medical and due process for the revoking of their scholarships rather than pay.  That's not to say pay wouldn't eventually come into play but right now that isn't the issue. 
"Just think twice is my only advice."

jknezek

Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 27, 2014, 11:20:41 AM
The impression that I've gotten is that the main issues concerning college athletes who support unionizing  are medical and due process for the revoking of their scholarships rather than pay.  That's not to say pay wouldn't eventually come into play but right now that isn't the issue.

If pay was the main publicized issue then it would garner less public support. Clever marketing keeps it focused on "health" and "justice" regardless of what may actually be the main underlying reason. And no, that doesn't mean I don't support them. I think a union is not the answer, but I do agree that Div 1 athletics is a minor league system and should be treated that way. Either the professional sports have to adopt baseball's model, which allows for professionals out of h.s. OR amateur athletics, or the NCAA has to admit that what it is doing is running a minor league system where the players are under-compensated. Since I have no hope the NFL or the NBA is going follow MLS, the NHL, or MLB, then it falls on the NCAA to do the right thing.

Scholarships should be abolished and the players should be paid a salary. Out of that salary they can pay for tuition and room and board. Personally I think the salary should be capped by year for all schools, and bonuses should be the same across the board. So a FY gets X, with Y*games played as a bonus. A sophomore gets something over X, with the same bonus structure, a senior gets the most. All awards from Freshman of the Year in a conference up to the Heisman should get a standardized bonus as well. So not only is there a "salary cap" per se, but it is a hard structure for all players in D1. Finally, any money a player can make outside of school is their own business, similar to the Olympic model.

I'd have to think about it more to address problems (differences in tuition and cost of living at various schools is the biggy off the top of my head), but I think it could be done this way.

NCF

Quote from: jknezek on February 27, 2014, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 27, 2014, 11:20:41 AM
The impression that I've gotten is that the main issues concerning college athletes who support unionizing  are medical and due process for the revoking of their scholarships rather than pay.  That's not to say pay wouldn't eventually come into play but right now that isn't the issue.

If pay was the main publicized issue then it would garner less public support. Clever marketing keeps it focused on "health" and "justice" regardless of what may actually be the main underlying reason. And no, that doesn't mean I don't support them. I think a union is not the answer, but I do agree that Div 1 athletics is a minor league system and should be treated that way. Either the professional sports have to adopt baseball's model, which allows for professionals out of h.s. OR amateur athletics, or the NCAA has to admit that what it is doing is running a minor league system where the players are under-compensated. Since I have no hope the NFL or the NBA is going follow MLS, the NHL, or MLB, then it falls on the NCAA to do the right thing.

Scholarships should be abolished and the players should be paid a salary. Out of that salary they can pay for tuition and room and board. Personally I think the salary should be capped by year for all schools, and bonuses should be the same across the board. So a FY gets X, with Y*games played as a bonus. A sophomore gets something over X, with the same bonus structure, a senior gets the most. All awards from Freshman of the Year in a conference up to the Heisman should get a standardized bonus as well. So not only is there a "salary cap" per se, but it is a hard structure for all players in D1. Finally, any money a player can make outside of school is their own business, similar to the Olympic model.

I'd have to think about it more to address problems (differences in tuition and cost of living at various schools is the biggy off the top of my head), but I think it could be done this way.


I agree with both of those statements. Abolishing scholarships and paying all athletes may just  be the place start. However, colleges and universities are not the minor leagues. And what if the kid doesn't want  to go to school? Would they be required to take a minimum number of courses to play?  Also, by  paying them a salary, athletes would  they also then be required to pay for their own shoes, shirts, shorts, etc. that the team requires them to own (just like employees of businesses that require a uniform) AND pay taxes, insurance, etc.? Lots to think about.....
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

jknezek

Quote from: NCF on February 27, 2014, 01:01:13 PM
Quote from: jknezek on February 27, 2014, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 27, 2014, 11:20:41 AM
The impression that I've gotten is that the main issues concerning college athletes who support unionizing  are medical and due process for the revoking of their scholarships rather than pay.  That's not to say pay wouldn't eventually come into play but right now that isn't the issue.

If pay was the main publicized issue then it would garner less public support. Clever marketing keeps it focused on "health" and "justice" regardless of what may actually be the main underlying reason. And no, that doesn't mean I don't support them. I think a union is not the answer, but I do agree that Div 1 athletics is a minor league system and should be treated that way. Either the professional sports have to adopt baseball's model, which allows for professionals out of h.s. OR amateur athletics, or the NCAA has to admit that what it is doing is running a minor league system where the players are under-compensated. Since I have no hope the NFL or the NBA is going follow MLS, the NHL, or MLB, then it falls on the NCAA to do the right thing.

Scholarships should be abolished and the players should be paid a salary. Out of that salary they can pay for tuition and room and board. Personally I think the salary should be capped by year for all schools, and bonuses should be the same across the board. So a FY gets X, with Y*games played as a bonus. A sophomore gets something over X, with the same bonus structure, a senior gets the most. All awards from Freshman of the Year in a conference up to the Heisman should get a standardized bonus as well. So not only is there a "salary cap" per se, but it is a hard structure for all players in D1. Finally, any money a player can make outside of school is their own business, similar to the Olympic model.

I'd have to think about it more to address problems (differences in tuition and cost of living at various schools is the biggy off the top of my head), but I think it could be done this way.


I agree with both of those statements. Abolishing scholarships and paying all athletes may just  be the place start. However, colleges and universities are not the minor leagues. And what if the kid doesn't want  to go to school? Would they be required to take a minimum number of courses to play?  Also, by  paying them a salary, athletes would  they also then be required to pay for their own shoes, shirts, shorts, etc. that the team requires them to own (just like employees of businesses that require a uniform) AND pay taxes, insurance, etc.? Lots to think about.....

As for the statement in bold, I no longer care. If the student chooses to enroll and attend in hopes of getting a degree it should be a bonus. Lets face it, very few of these guys actually go pro, so I'm assuming a lot of them would enroll. But if a few treat it just as a workplace, that's ok with me too.  As for paying for uniforms, that's a minor concern. Professional players in the minor leagues wear team provided uniforms. If you want something more or different, that's between you and the team. Pay taxes? Sure, if it's a job. Insurance should be provided by the employer like most full-time work places (no politics here, just referring to most pro sports businesses, even minor leagues, the players are provided an insurance option).

The key is to stop treating Div I athletics differently from any other professional sports league. Once you do that, you'll realize that the problems have mostly been hammered out in other places. The big ones revolve around pay schedules and the issue of whether the teams are "affiliated" with universities, or actually part of the university. Given how most athletic departments in major D1 are university affiliates these days, even that shouldn't be too big of an issue. We have an unpaid minor league system now, in the name of universities are special. Take that away and you'll end up with a paid minor league system with the fanbase primarily coming from the university.