FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:13:40 AM

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jknezek

The growth of the ODAC, in addition to maintaining the aq, has certainly cut down flexibility for OOC games. Especially for teams with traditional opponents. I really hope W&L keeps traditional opponents Sewanee and Centre on the schedule. The loss of Centre for a few years in the late naughts was a real shame and I was glad to see it resume the last few years. W&L has rotated the centennial game, though F&M has been around for a few years now. I would expect that to be the most likely candidate to shift around now and then.

I can see how it would get a bit boring for long term fans, but for most teams, fans are mainly made up of students and parents. And they rotate through every 4 years. So while having traditional opponents might seem stale to us, it probably is not a big deal for the vast majority of people attending the games.

The biggest problem I have with having traditional OOCs that is that you are at their mercy in terms of quality. Sewanee is finally coming back after a long down period, W&L is playing good ball and challenging Centre again. But it hasn't always been that way. While the schools align well in terms of mission and values, they haven't always aligned well in terms of talent, facilities, and institutional will. Having traditional opponents that are weak year in and year out isn't great preparation for the season or a good boost to SOS if you are in the playoff mix.

In regards to much of the ODAC, with the proximity of the USASAC, I think the ODAC as a whole does itself few favors in the little OOC flexibility remaining in the scheduling.

tigerfanalso

JK

HSC has a large fan base for home games outside of the students/parents and I believe they would grow very tired of playing the same OOC games year over year. I feel HSC has done a pretty decent job with mixing it up; Huntingdon, Salisbury, CNU and are finding it more difficult each year to find teams willing to put HSC on the schedule. Like W&L, HSC played Sewannee for years but they dropped us about five years ago, why I really don't know. My guess is the two programs where going in different directions but hopefully they can be added going forward since they have made improvements. Prior to HSC hiring it's current head coach most schools would have walked to HSC to play; not so much any longer. The addition of Wabash in 2014 & 15 is really exciting but expensive. If HSC is fortunate enough to win that game, SOS for playoffs will be enhanced and they will be battlled tested having played a really solid program, much like RMC playing JHU and W&L playing Centre. I don't see other ODAC teams playing quality OOC opponents and I wish they would.   It would help them improve and would help the conference over time.

HSCTiger74

   I think that jk and tfa have both made good points in regard to OOC scheduling, and I agree that it would be great if the conference as a whole could continue to both upgrade and branch out, particularly as it impacts SoS. In my mind it would be fun to see us take on some games with some of the semi-nearby leagues like the OAC, NCAC, PAC, NJAC, Empire 8 and Liberty League. I figure that if we can trek to Sewanee, Centre, Huntingdon, Wabash or Coast Guard we can schedule those leagues once in a while. Even offering ourselves up as the occasional sacrificial lamb for Wesley would help the SoS and give us input on what we need to do to improve.
   Part of the problem, of course, is cost, which is why the USAS and Centennial show up so often; their proximity makes them attractive choices to help keep the costs lower. I think that the PAC, at least the members in Pennsylvania, would also fit this model pretty well.
   The other factor to consider is flexibility in scheduling. Unlike jk, I think that the ODAC may have an advantage here, because with only eight football-playing members that lets us schedule three OOC games every year. Even after the "traditional" games (RMC/JHU, W&L/F&M, HSC/Sewanee, etc) there's room for new teams. The difficulty, as I see it, is that all the conferences I mentioned above have 10 or more members or affiliates and would have at most one OOC game available per team, with (presumably) traditional games of their own. Or, like the New York leagues, they'd involve long trips and couldn't be counted on for regular scheduling. That circles us back to the CC and USAS.
   I guess, looking back at what I've written, that's a rambling way of saying I'm not sure what the answer is either, but any efforts the ODAC teams make to broaden their schedules would be welcomed by me as a fan.
     
TANSTAAFL

hasanova

HSCTiger74,

By the end of your post you were working your way to some of the OOC scheduling difficulties with conferences that have more than 8 members.  Namely, there aren't that many opportunities.  It'll be easier to schedule an OOC match-up in Weeks 1 and 2, but may be close to impossible by Week 3.  The OOC, for example, with 10 teams and a full round-robin schedule, only has room for one OOC game.

For several years, GC would schedule a DII opponent in Week 1.  Then, we'd usually get beat up or key guys injured and pay the price for the rest of the season.   :-\

tigerfanalso

Should the ODAC expand ? Have an eight game coference schedule and only two OOC games.
Are there any reasonable schools to reach out to ?

jknezek

Quote from: tigerfanalso on March 08, 2013, 02:09:02 PM
Should the ODAC expand ? Have an eight game coference schedule and only two OOC games.
Are there any reasonable schools to reach out to ?

The ODAC is already a particularly large conference in terms of other sports. For example, women's soccer has 13 members already.  It would be hard to expand further unless you were willing to take football only affiliates like Catholic. I don't see a real advantage to that. Finding 3 OOC games is not particularly onerous given the shear volume of teams within reasonable driving distance of the ODAC. At 8 members, the ODAC is already one above the minimum requirement for an AQ, so even if the ratio changes the ODAC should be fine. Further, there aren't many unaffiliated options close by, so you'd be poaching. The only league that would be susceptible to poaching, from my perspective, is the USASAC. Honestly I don't see an upside to a football team from that conference joining on a one sport basis, and there is really no reason to tender another full sport membership at this time. I'm not positive, but I don't think the ODAC is below the AQ in any sport at this time.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: tigerfanalso on March 08, 2013, 02:09:02 PM
Should the ODAC expand ? Have an eight game coference schedule and only two OOC games.
Are there any reasonable schools to reach out to ?
IMHO, the best schedule to have is an 8-team 7-game conference.  Filling open dates in late October is tough.

Weeks 5-11 are conference games.  You can find 3 great in-region games in the first 4 weeks to boost the SOS.

Having fewer non-conference games has the effect of pulling the SOS down to .500 regardless of how hard you try to avoid it.  (See NESCAC basketball for optimization of the schedule for SOS sake.)

hasanova

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2013, 04:32:37 PM
Quote from: tigerfanalso on March 08, 2013, 02:09:02 PM
Should the ODAC expand ? Have an eight game coference schedule and only two OOC games.
Are there any reasonable schools to reach out to ?
IMHO, the best schedule to have is an 8-team 7-game conference.  Filling open dates in late October is tough.

Weeks 5-11 are conference games.  You can find 3 great in-region games in the first 4 weeks to boost the SOS.

Having fewer non-conference games has the effect of pulling the SOS down to .500 regardless of how hard you try to avoid it.  (See NESCAC basketball for optimization of the schedule for SOS sake.)
Ralph's right.  An odd-number of teams creates an open date for one team every week once conference play begins.  There's a reason MLB has 16 teams in the NL and 14 in the AL ... and not 15 each!

Pat Coleman

Quote from: hasanova on March 11, 2013, 10:05:04 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2013, 04:32:37 PM
Quote from: tigerfanalso on March 08, 2013, 02:09:02 PM
Should the ODAC expand ? Have an eight game coference schedule and only two OOC games.
Are there any reasonable schools to reach out to ?
IMHO, the best schedule to have is an 8-team 7-game conference.  Filling open dates in late October is tough.

Weeks 5-11 are conference games.  You can find 3 great in-region games in the first 4 weeks to boost the SOS.

Having fewer non-conference games has the effect of pulling the SOS down to .500 regardless of how hard you try to avoid it.  (See NESCAC basketball for optimization of the schedule for SOS sake.)
Ralph's right.  An odd-number of teams creates an open date for one team every week once conference play begins.  There's a reason MLB has 16 teams in the NL and 14 in the AL ... and not 15 each!

Had. Oops. :)

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/exhibition.jsp?tcid=mm_mlb_standings#20130929
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Ralph Turner

Geo-political baseball question...

Is Texas too "red-state" for the NL and so they exile the Houston Astros to the AL?   :D

hasanova


hasanova

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2013, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: hasanova on March 11, 2013, 10:05:04 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2013, 04:32:37 PM
Quote from: tigerfanalso on March 08, 2013, 02:09:02 PM
Should the ODAC expand ? Have an eight game coference schedule and only two OOC games.
Are there any reasonable schools to reach out to ?
IMHO, the best schedule to have is an 8-team 7-game conference.  Filling open dates in late October is tough.

Weeks 5-11 are conference games.  You can find 3 great in-region games in the first 4 weeks to boost the SOS.

Having fewer non-conference games has the effect of pulling the SOS down to .500 regardless of how hard you try to avoid it.  (See NESCAC basketball for optimization of the schedule for SOS sake.)
Ralph's right.  An odd-number of teams creates an open date for one team every week once conference play begins.  There's a reason MLB has 16 teams in the NL and 14 in the AL ... and not 15 each!

Had. Oops. :)

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/exhibition.jsp?tcid=mm_mlb_standings#20130929
I guess with so much interleague play it didn't matter, ... but I must not be paying attention.  When did this happen?  lol

Pat Coleman

This will be the first year. And yeah, it means interleague play happens all season. I guess it was bound to happen at some point.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

hasanova

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2013, 10:11:22 AM
This will be the first year. And yeah, it means interleague play happens all season. I guess it was bound to happen at some point.
Thanks.  I spent some time reading about this last night and see it was being discussed in 2011.  Somehow, I missed it.  Looks as though the Astros get a financial incentive to switch and it creates a more intense rivalry and more head-to-head games with the Rangers.  Win.  Win.

tigerfanalso

Difficult to stay focused on football in March, I guess. Hasa thanks for the info on the new recruits. Looks like the GC staff is going after size this year. Can never have too many, big, smelly OLineman. Hopefully ever ODAC team will improve with the incoming class. I know HSC is well into the recruiting activity and having some early success. Will not know anything definite until mid April. Only have three SEC transfers coming this year !!!!!!