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General => General Division III issues => Topic started by: K-Mack on November 09, 2005, 12:03:40 AM

Title: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on November 09, 2005, 12:03:40 AM
Hey all,
I get this sort of e-mail a couple of times a year, and instead of typing out the same heartfelt response each time, thought I would share it here and point people in the direction of it next time it comes up ... and of course, open up the floor to anyone who wants to chime in. E-mails and real names withheld, of course (I think)

QuoteDear Mr. McMillen,

    I am the mother of a high school football player.  I will be honest with you--my son is neither an outstanding athlete nor an outstanding scholar.  He has, however, enjoyed being part of his high school football team, even though he gets very little playing time.  This is partially due to his lack of size (5'8", 165 lbs.), and his lack of speed.  Also, our team is one of the best in the state of Florida, and we have a lot of very talented boys, which means a lot of depth in each position, and not much chance for an average player to get much playing time.
   
     Even with all of the above, my son still really enjoys being on the team, and wishes he could get to play more often. Being part of the football team has truly been a life-changing experience for him.  It has given him self-confidence and self-discipline, and has helped him develop good leadership skills. And, though he rarely gets into the game, he still makes all the practices, and works very hard.  He has a good relationship with the coaches, and his best friends are his fellow players.

   My son is a senior this year, and, as we have been researching potential colleges, he has said that he wishes he could go to a small college that has a football program, where he could try out for the team as a walk-on.
   
      I am realistic enough to know that my son's chances of making any college team, no matter how small, are about zero. But as a concerned and caring parent, I would like to find out if such a small-college program exists.  As someone knowledgeable about small-college football programs,  I would appreciate your opinion and your insight on this subject. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Mrs.xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx@aol.com

Mrs. xxxxxxxxxxxxx,
first off, you might be the most rational parent I've ever heard from, maybe even too rational. Size is not really the issue at Division III, I weighed 170 (and was 6'2" ... rail-thin) when I went to a D3 school as a freshman, and ended up playing four years, starting two, and filling out to about 195 with weight training and natural growth. A lot of kids come into Division III programs in your son's situation, or similar ones ... having played for a very small high school, being a good player on a losing high school team, missing the time they would have been recruited because they were hurt, or just being very average and not standing out among the players next to them. The good news is Division III and NAIA football is the place for kids like this if they still really want to play.

  I won't bore you with all the details right now, but feel free to write back and ask more. I definitely think your son should look into these levels, based on what you've written. Division III schools are all about recruiting students who happen to be athletes anyway. They want talent of course, but the chance to walk-on is very real. Maybe your son just hasn't discovered his talent yet, or the particular thing he's good at. I played with a guy who made the travelling team (you can usually only take 55 of your players on the road) all four years as a tight end because he was also our best long-snapper.

What I'm trying to say is that if your son has the enthusiasm to play and wants to go to college, he can stick with football as long as he wants. Most Division III programs recruit as many kids as they can, and let them weed themselves out ... in other words, some talented kids emerge immediately, some take a few years, some realize they don't really like football that much and would rather just be a student. But all of that is better than not having an opportunity at all ... Certainly you'll want to look for something that's his speed socially, and academically, but you can probably tell I have great enthusiasm for small college football because of the opportunities it provides for people like myself and your son and tons of other kids who love football, but weren't born with the perfect physique, or didn't master the game fast enough to get a big-college scholarship.

In any case, I'll be available if you want some more specific questions answered. There aren't many small schools near Florida, but I'll tell you what I know.

Keith McMillan
Keith@D3football.com
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2005, 12:29:30 AM
Keith,

Wonderful response!  You kept hope alive without raising false hopes; you stressed academics over athletics; you pointed out how, even past age 18, bodies may change (sometimes even drastically).

My ONLY criticism is that you should have suggested her SON should write for further information!
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on November 09, 2005, 01:59:04 AM
Oh yeah. Good point.

I e-mailed back and forth with a parent in Texas a few years ago, and I believe the son is at Trinity or UMHB ... I'd had one update since. His story was great too, just a big player on a small-town team and couldn't get a sniff from the bigger schools ... which likely turns out to be a blessing.

If I get a chance to dig through my old inbox, I'll see if I can find those to share too. The question really does come up often, from people looking to transfer or get back into football after being out of the game for a few years ... I can't really recommend specific places without knowing a lot about what someone is looking for, but I can at least point them in the right direction.

FWIW.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Gray Fox on November 09, 2005, 05:07:47 PM
I once saw a really SLOW D3 receiver who could CATCH ANYTHING.  He ended up trying out for the Rams and making it to the final cut.  He had gone to a high school with a losing record.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Coach C on November 10, 2005, 08:44:43 AM
Hey Keith -

That is a great way to handle a very common question.  It's a little hard on the hoops side since the squad size is so much smaller, but if a family looks at a school that has established varsity AND JV programs, the chances of making a team are better.

Plus, a marginal student athlete who starts at the JV level will get a whole lot more coaching attention on JV than he would at the varsity level.  this will obviously help him make the most of his experience.  Many coaches also reward long time JV players with a spot on the varsity late in the player's career.

C
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: DutchFan2004 on November 14, 2005, 09:45:54 PM
K-Mack,

Great job! D-3 is about getting a degree and and education.  Sports can be a big part of the overall education ( I know you know this)  But I want my son to get his degree have fun, and hopefully some success on the field but get the degree so he can become a man and productive member of his community.  Hopefully that will happen.  Tell her its along ways but there are many great d3 schools all over the country and many in the IIAC.  I know Dubuque has many Florida players on their team. 
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2005, 09:07:24 AM

How many role players have you seen only spend a year or two on the varsity team and then just move on to other things.  At the d3 level, most every kid has to know their playing career is ending and sometimes they realize that life has more important things for them to do.

In my experience, I've seen quite a number of athletes give up the last year or two of their college career because their time is better spent in work or study or other interests.  Besides, at a lot of schools you can get more glory for less work being an intramural legend than a hard-worker on the varsity squad.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: bbald eagle on November 16, 2005, 10:09:33 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 15, 2005, 09:07:24 AM

At the d3 level, most every kid has to know their playing career is ending and sometimes they realize that life has more important things for them to do.  In my experience, I've seen quite a number of athletes give up the last year or two of their college career because their time is better spent in work or study or other interests.

You're pointing out part of the educational value of athletics even when the student decides not to play - the student can realize his own limitations or interests and also see what else is available; there is more to life and education than sports!  That knowledge is invaluable & some folks never seem to learn it.  ::)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on December 02, 2005, 11:31:22 PM
I told you I get this e-mail at least once a year. This one is not from a parent, but a longtime D3 watcher and future player, I'm sure. You guys want to tell him he's a perfect D3 candidate or should I?

(last name and real high school withheld)

QuoteKeith,
My name is Ken xxxxx and I have enjoyed reading your columns on d3football.com.  I used to live in Charlottesville, VA and me and my dad made the trip to the Stagg Bowl a couple of times a few years ago.  We saw Mount Union and Dan Pugh win big over Trinity, as well as see St. Johns upset Mount Union in one of the coldest days i can remember.  Anyways, I wanted to ask you about division 3 football.  I am a junior on a mediocre xxxxxx High football team, and I am an undersized guard.  I am quick and very athletic (I could probably play fullback or tight end as well) but I am needed on the line.  I was wondering if in division 3, would a team take a chance on me at 5-10, 235, with a pretty quick 40 time (I havent been officially timed).  Do you think a team would take a look at me?  I also was wondering about the division 3 recruiting process.  I know it has to be drastically diffferent from 1-A, and I was wondering if you could let me know how that works.  I get good grades, a good SAT score, I play baseball as well, and I am involved in a couple after shool activities.  Are those the type of things these schools look for? I'm sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but I really have no clue how recruiting works in D3 and what teams are looking for.  Thank you for your time and keep up the good work on your column,

Ken xxxxx
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 11:50:24 AM

So how many coaches have called you for information on this kid already?  I'm sure there will be quite a few, assuming they monitor the site.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: union89 on December 09, 2005, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on December 02, 2005, 11:31:22 PM
I told you I get this e-mail at least once a year. This one is not from a parent, but a longtime D3 watcher and future player, I'm sure. You guys want to tell him he's a perfect D3 candidate or should I?

(last name and real high school withheld)

QuoteKeith,
My name is Ken xxxxx and I have enjoyed reading your columns on d3football.com.  I used to live in Charlottesville, VA and me and my dad made the trip to the Stagg Bowl a couple of times a few years ago.  We saw Mount Union and Dan Pugh win big over Trinity, as well as see St. Johns upset Mount Union in one of the coldest days i can remember.  Anyways, I wanted to ask you about division 3 football.  I am a junior on a mediocre xxxxxx High football team, and I am an undersized guard.  I am quick and very athletic (I could probably play fullback or tight end as well) but I am needed on the line.  I was wondering if in division 3, would a team take a chance on me at 5-10, 235, with a pretty quick 40 time (I havent been officially timed).  Do you think a team would take a look at me?  I also was wondering about the division 3 recruiting process.  I know it has to be drastically diffferent from 1-A, and I was wondering if you could let me know how that works.  I get good grades, a good SAT score, I play baseball as well, and I am involved in a couple after shool activities.  Are those the type of things these schools look for? I'm sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but I really have no clue how recruiting works in D3 and what teams are looking for.  Thank you for your time and keep up the good work on your column,

Ken xxxxx

Man...In my opinion, that's what it's all about!!  I'm a knucklehead from the Liberty League board who speaks in the 3rd person, but this is all of us to some degree!!

I (Union89) went to Union College, was way undersized and had no opportunity to play at the D1 level (5'11", 230)....Union89 was a 3 year starter, played in a Stagg and was captain senior year.......the lessons learned juggling football, fraternity and the commitment to both have led Union89 to a successful emotional and financial life in '05!!

Keep chasing what you enjoy & it will make you a better individual 10 years from now......I PROMISE!!

~ Best of Luck!
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: WLU78 on December 18, 2005, 06:18:28 AM
Your topic is of great interest to me.  I have a son who is a senior in high school and would like to play football in college.  He is only 6'1.5" and 245 so he is too small for the D1 template.  He has been a four year starter (DT)  going both ways (OT & DT) his junior and senior years.  He has decent SAT scores and a decent GPA, and has been accepted at 'Bama and Ole Miss.  He has some DII and NAIA schools recruiting him as well as one DIII school that has recruited him most of the season (but his sister goes there and he really wants his "own" school). 

I called and left messages at a couple of schools requesting info on the protocol for sending them film.  Only Hampden Sydney and Centre returned the call, and gave me instructions on sending them film.  I am not sure where to go from here.  His high school coach is sending the film to some D1-AA schools and others, so do we just wait?  Or do we just send film blindly and see what kind of response we get?  (As an aside, I am pushing DIII and am counting on the coaches selling him on smaller is better!)

Any insight and advice will help.

Go Generals!!!!
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: TigerDad on December 22, 2005, 06:26:39 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 09, 2005, 01:59:04 AM
I e-mailed back and forth with a parent in Texas a few years ago, and I believe the son is at Trinity or UMHB ... I'd had one update since. His story was great too, just a big player on a small-town team and couldn't get a sniff from the bigger schools ... which likely turns out to be a blessing.


K-Mack;

I just ran across this topic during a few spare minutes.  That was me.  Without revealing too much personal info, my son did in fact decide (on his own) to go to Trinity and played for the Tigers as a freshman this past season.  We did visit UMHB, but Trinity was a better choice for his selected major.  He also had "walk-on" invitations from two well-known D1 schools in Texas.  He passed on them for several reasons, including the fact that he hoped to play sooner and not have to devote most of his time to athletics at the expense of his classroom duties.  The smaller school size was more his style, too.  Skip to the present ... he believes that he did make the right decision.  He made the travelling squad and got to play in every game, at least on special teams.  He also played behind some excellent upperclassmen who took a genuine interest in his progress and success.  Yes, we do consider it a blessing.

The reason I wrote you in the first place was because we knew almost nothing about D3 football athletics (or schools, for that matter).  Your thoughtful reply was very helpful to us in the recruiting and decision process ... thanks for taking the time to compose a personal reply that addressed our concerns and also gave us some idea what to look for.

I do have that e-mail conversation from the Spring of 2005 (seems longer ago to me too).  I would like to post it with your permission.  Send me an e-mail and let me know fi that's OK with you ... I can send you a preview first if you prefer.


WLU78; (and others in the same situation)

Congratulations for taking the time to carefully consider your son's options.  Glad to see that you found this website and particularly this topic.  It's an important one.

My son's story is much the same as your son's.  Small high school 4-year varsity starter both ways.  Recruited but not.  D1 schools hemmed and hawed, then backed away slowly, despite state-wide honors too numerous to mention.  D3 schools were happy to discuss his prospects there and without any pretense of "possibilities" that "might" come true (or not).  Do not think that D3 is somehow a "step down" ... just a different road.  For some, it's better.  I suggest you talk to some current players and their parents at the schools your son is considering.  The good news is that you have more time and you don't have to commit to anything until the school's admission deadlines ... usually in April or May.  Remember D1 signing day is in early February.

Here's a pretty comprehensive review of Division III athletics by the NCAA:
http://www2.ncaa.org/legislation_and_governance/committees/division3.html
(see especially "What does Division III have to offer?")

Important:
Make sure you register your son with the NCAA Clearinghouse for athletic eligibility ... definitely needed for Division I and Division II prospective student-athletes:
http://www.ncaaclearinghouse.net/ncaa/NCAA/common/index.html

Maybe some other posters have other references or experiences they'd like to share.


Bottom line:  All parents of good high school athletes should consider a quality D3 school as a very good alternative to "lower numbered" levels.  Especially when an athletic scholarship is hinted but not offered.  A great athlete can prosper and accomplish great things at any level ... the only things missing are not necessarity beneficial (TV & press coverage, financial pressure, missed classroom time, distant roadtrips, a lot of negative influences, etc.)  And, if you check into the financial picture carefully, you may find that smaller school tuition and expenses actually add up to LESS than the larger and state-affiliated schools.

My son's teammates are some of the finest young men I have met, period.  Most are serious & committed students who enjoy "pure" football at its finest.  Doesn't hurt to play for a winner, either.

D3Football is fantastic.
;D
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: TigerDad on January 03, 2006, 09:34:29 AM
With K-Mack's permission, here's a series of e-mails we exchanged last spring, edited somewhat for length and privacy.  I hope some of y'all find this helpful to you in your search for the right place for your sons (or daughters) to play college sports ... D3 has worked out great for our family.

Quote
-----Original Message-----
From: TigerDad
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 12:26 PM
To: K-Mack
Subject: D3Football Question

Dear K-Mack;

Read your overview & awards on D3Football.com ("Best and Worst of 2004").  Nice work and good reading ... looks like you really know D3 football and I, on the other hand, do not.

My son is a 4-year small town high school football star with great stats and a Texas Class 1A (smallest school division) state championship this year.  In his career, his team has gone 49-8, including 14-2 in 2003 and 16-0 in 2004.  He's rushed for over 5000 yards in his career and had 40 rushing TD's this year at running back in the Veer offense.  He was also a starter at LB and was the team leader in tackles.

Despite many awards and honors, my son was not recruited by NCAA D-I schools, period.  Kind of insulting, but not completely surprising ... he's 6'0", 195 and 4.6.  Both Navy and Air Force did contact him, but he did not follow up as he really wants to stay closer to home.

He is, however, getting some attention from several D-III schools in Texas, including X, Y and Z Colleges.

Here's my question:  What's your opinion of these schools and do you think D-III is a good level of play?

From your article, I see that you are an expert and I would welcome any and all comments you might have on this subject.

Thanks for your time ...
TigerDad

Quote
-----Original Message-----
From: K-Mack
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:42 AM
To: TigerDad
Subject: Re: D3Football Question

TigerDad,

I played in Division III myself, so of course I'm going to tell you it's a good level of play, but I mean it. I have since covered the NFL and Division I-A, and what I find is the game is equally complex in Division III -- in other words, we're being taught the same schemes, but the players in Division III are generally smaller, a bit slower and well aware that their studies is the ticket to the pay day. I played with and against a lot of guys like your son, who were great great players, and maybe a couple inches too short or not quite as fast as the big colleges would like.

Generally in D3 you get less attention than some big schools, but some small D-Is get less media coverage than a St. John's, Mount Union or Rowan. But you don't get star treatment most of the time on campus, and almost never when you leave it. There's good support for most of the teams, 5,000-10,000 fans, which can be less than some had at their games in high school, but still make up pretty raucous crowds.

The three Texas schools you mentioned are all great places to go if your son is concerned  with wins and losses. A lot of players who come from losing programs in high school really put that high on the list, but your son doesn't have that problem. He's experienced a championship, so I'd advise him to find a place that he's comfortable -- socially, academically and with his role on the football team -- and give it his all.

I chose Division III over a chance to go I-AA and try to earn a scholarship. I had some academic scholarships that allowed me to do that, but it cost more in the long run, and still I'll never regret it. We had some great times and some great teams, and I got to really contribute to something special. I just remember thinking I could never envision myself in the stands rooting when I knew I could be out there playing, and so it was the move for me.

Hope that helps your son figure out what his next move will be. Let me know how it turns out.

K-Mack

Quote
-----Original Message-----
From: TigerDad
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:04 AM
To: K-Mack
Subject: RE: D3Football Question


Dear K-Mack;

Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply.  I appreciate that you took time to give me such a clear picture of your experience with and opinion of D-III football.

Frankly, your comments have reinforced those I've heard from some of the coaches and players at the schools we've visited so far ... it seems that D-III might work out just great for my son.  His mom and I have always prayed that he would find the right school with the right balance of academics, athletics, and friends.  After the initial disappointment of the lack of recognition by D-I, we're starting to feel like things are working out for the best.  As you wrote, it's more expensive the D-III way, but may turn out to be worth more in the long run.

He says that he doesn't want to wonder "what if" he had played college ball someday.  I'm hoping he will have the same impression and experience you had/have with college football.  I couldn't ask for more.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with us ... I'll send you another note after he makes his decision this spring.  Hope to see you at the Stagg Bowl someday!!

Best Regards,
TigerDad


Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: JacketsFan on January 16, 2006, 10:41:07 PM
K-Mack, I'd be interested in knowing which Florida High School the letter writing parent was talking about. My own son graduated from a Florida high school program and is now in his third year at Defiance, getting a good education and having the time of his life playing football. I just now happened across the bulletin board and saw this posting. If you want to refer this Florida parent to me, please feel free. A lot of Florida players/parents have apprehensions about going so far away from home to attend college and play football. I would be more than happy to offer words of encouragement to anyone who's considering it.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on September 21, 2006, 07:50:54 PM
WLU78 and JacketsFan,
Sorry I had not seen your questions or had an opportunity to reply. This is definitely something I feel strongly about, and I'll always be willing to help where I can. Even if the final destination is not a D3 school, the big thing is to make sure you're picking your place for the right reasons. When I made my decision, I wasn't 100% sure, but in the end it worked out better than I could have imagined.

Tiger Dad, reading those old e-mails is interesting. I'm glad that we can all keep this out in the open; if the insight is really that helpful, no need to keep it between two people.

Except for TigerDad's son, I do not know or recall what became of any of the players or parents who have e-mailed me about D3. In the future though, now knowing we have some available parents who have been through the same thing, I will try and refer them as soon as I get the e-mail.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on October 04, 2006, 12:15:37 AM
OK everybody,
here's the first one from this season. The fellow says it's OK to post here ... so it's him, then my response, then him again.

If any of the parents you have been through something similar can help, post it here, or contact me for his e-mail address.

Quote-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Michael" <xxxxxxxxx@sport.rr.com>

Hello Keith,
  My name is Mike [last name withheld].  I am 57 year old financial advisor in Shreveport, Louisiana. I am seeking your assistance please. I have a son, Jeremy, who has at least 2 years of college football eligibility remaining.  He recently decided he was missing playing college ball. He was Northwestern State (LA) for 2 years. He would have been a red-shirt sophomore backing up a  free safety  senior All- American and would have played considerably on special teams this season. However, we found out he had a ruptured disc in his lower back and to be quite honest, with a "lil" persuasion from his girlfriend transferred to Louisiana Tech. He played quarterback at C.E. Byrd (AAAAA) in high school. He was recruited as an athelete because of his height 5' 10". Some schools in the East did recruit him as a quarterback, Penn, Princeton, Bucknell, Columbia, Leheigh to name a few. Arkansas State recruited him as receiver so who knows what he should have played. I do know he wants to play qaurterback at the right place where the offensive philosophy is to spread it out and let the QB have the opportunity to run or throw. We are searching for the right place academically and atheletically. He is very bright kid...got it from his mom. He is quicker than he is fast with an above average arm. He is very, very good with his reads, coverages etc. Most say he is an outstanding leader on the field. If you know of any possiblity we could just look into we would appreciate it very much. If he cannot find the right fit at the D-3 level he may return the D-1AA or even D-1A as a possible walk-on receiver/free safety again.  If you do not have the time for this I understand. My cell phone is 318-[number withheld] if you do find the time and need to call. Anything suggestion from you again, will be greatly appreciated. 

With Regard, Mike [last name withheld]

p.s. Keith, Jeremy was highly thought of coming out of high school, but as I mentioned his height hurt him and as you well know not many places at the highest level for white defensive backs. Was considered by some to be at top 50 player in the state in 2004 and Rivals gave him a 2-star rating for what that is worth. He was invited to the Nike camp his junior and senior years. He is heavier now 186 but at the time ran his best 4.55 (40) 4.13 (pro agility), squats 515, benches 280-300. take care

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith@D3football.com
To: Michael
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Looking to play in D3

Mike,
I can help, but there are a lot of questions you'd need to answer, like how far from home (or is that not an issue) he wants to go, what he wants to study, what you can afford (D3s will often put together a good need-based financial package, and assist good students, but no official athletic scholarships) & such.

  The best bet is probably this: We have a pretty good online community on our message board. There's a thread I started a few years back solely dedicated to parents and players who aren't sure about D3. I get e-mails similar to yours a couple times a year, and instead of me rehashing the same answer, I can get more than one person to share their thoughts with you. Basically, it means I'll hook you up with some people who have gone through some similar experiences, we can point you in the right direction, and you and your son can make the decisions for yourselves.

Without knowing anything more than what you've told me though, I will say that being Louisiana puts you in relatively close proximity to a number of prominent D3 programs and some on-the-rise types that really like to throw the ball. If your son is dying to play quarterback and wants to stick with that, you are probably barking up the right tree. As far as height, 5-10 is not ideal, but not prohibitive either. Mary Hardin-Baylor, for instance, while not a pass-happy program, went to the Stagg Bowl (D3 national championship) a few years ago with 5-10 QB and still starts the same guy. So it can be done.

If you plan to stay relatively close to home and still want to attend a good school and hopefully get a chance to play, I would look at the American Southwest Conference schools and the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference. I could probably recommend some specific places, but it's better you to do it on your own, and it's better for me to stay impartial.

Let me know if it's OK to share this message publicly, or maybe a version of it with some of the identifying information and cell phone # taken out, and we'll get you pointed in the right direction and set up on the board.
--
Keith McMillan
D3football.com National Columnist
Keith@D3football.com

Quote----- Original Message -----
Thank you so much Keith. I mean that. We sincerely appreciate your time. We realize how busy you must be. It is OK to put this information on the message board.  Jeremy does desire to stay reasonably close to home.   I know a couple of  head coaches, but will take your advise as to how to proceed. Just let me know what you need or what our next step should be.   

Thanks again, Mike 

Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on May 30, 2007, 12:51:16 AM
Some more interesting posts on this topic on two threads under General Football:

Which D3 Football program to choose? (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5252.0) (Chapman vs. Redlands)

and

Help choosing a school (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4147.0)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Bob Maxwell on June 02, 2007, 10:19:41 AM
Some great information in this thread... I wish that more parents, students and yes even high school coaches... would understand how great the D-III athletics program is.  And how it fits into the overall education of an individual.

It isn't about getting that "Athletic Scholarship" to BIG TIME U.... its about finding a place you fit in, getting a solid education with life long memories and friends, and preparing for life!

Great thread and a lot of great posts with good solid information.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on June 20, 2007, 01:51:17 AM
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on June 02, 2007, 10:19:41 AMIt isn't about getting that "Athletic Scholarship" to BIG TIME U.... its about finding a place you fit in, getting a solid education with life long memories and friends, and preparing for life!

Could not have said it better myself.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 08:16:41 AM
How does a student athlete obtain D3 academic rankings? Great education & football, doen's get better!!!
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 06, 2007, 09:23:46 AM
Quote from: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 08:16:41 AM
How does a student athlete obtain D3 academic rankings? Great education & football, doen's get better!!!
For all of the controversy that the US News and World Report's rankings (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/cohome.htm) have raised, that is a good place to start.  The Princeton Review (http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankings.asp) is another.  Peterson's (http://www.petersons.com/) has another ranking service that is online.  The John Templeton Foundation (http://www.collegeandcharacter.org/guide/) emphasizes colleges of character.  Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2004/09/08_401.html) might be on the other end of a spectrum.

The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign has an online compendium (http://www.library.uiuc.edu/edx/rankgen.htm) with the appropriate caveats.

I have not seen any of these break out NCAA Division III specifically.  You can use this site to evaluate the "football" credentials.  I hope this helps.  :)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Gray Fox on August 06, 2007, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 08:16:41 AM
How does a student athlete obtain D3 academic rankings? Great education & football, doen's get better!!!
Good school college advisers should be of some help.  Start with the academic side of the equation and then fit in football.

We are all fans of our schools/leagues, so you will get a biased view here.  There are many great schools that play d3 football.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 05:26:59 PM
 :) Thanks. I would like to here thoughts on what are the best ACADEMIC D3 schools .
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 06, 2007, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 05:26:59 PM
Thanks. I would like to here thoughts on what are the best ACADEMIC D3 schools .

That's a dangerous question around here, but ultimately it depends on what sort of degree your kid wants.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 07:14:43 PM
He is extremely interested in medicine.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Gray Fox on August 06, 2007, 07:20:29 PM
Quote from: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 07:14:43 PM
He is extremely interested in medicine.
Where do you live?  Does he want to stay close to home?

There are many schools with great pre-med programs, but I think many medical schools will take a variety of majors.   Is your son going to be a senior this year?
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 07:49:32 PM
Senior , top 3 in 200 class at a highly competetive Jesuit school. Willing to go anywhere for great academics & ability to play.   Thanks
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 06, 2007, 07:55:01 PM
Medicine...

There are three scenarios if he wants to combine D3 athletics and pre-med.

Case #1:  He is a 1600 SAT and is turning down Stanford, because they aren't D3.  

Strategy:  Get the best quality school that you can, because he may be considering a MD/PhD program and/or a top-flight medical school.  And remember that you are playing for all those years of schooling. (4 years college, 4 years med school, 4-7 years residency and/or 2-4 years of subspecialty fellowship).  He may not have his first real job until he is 33 or 35.  


Case #2:  1400 SAT.

Strategy:  May qualify for some type of full-tuition college academic scholarship, which should not be underestimated.  Will likely get to med school anyway.  About 10-12 years ago, in a study evaluating comparable MCAT/LSAT/GRE scores and GPA's, the time-cost-return on investment analysis showed that the MBA gave the best return on investment.  The law degree was a close second, and the MD was a distant third.  With an MBA, you are getting your first job at 24.  Law 25 or 26. Medicine, age 29-30 at the earliest with greater potential economic up-sides in the first two.  Stereotypical, white males are now a minority in medical school.  In fact, some medical specialties are recruiting them for their diversity value.

Case #3:  1200 SAT; very hard-working student.  Great people skills.  Everybody likes the kid because of how hard he works and what a "great kid" he is.

Strategy:  Find a smaller school where the individual attention from the faculty will reap the biggest rewards.  The 400th pre-med in the organic chemistry class with the "English- as- a-second- language" teaching assistant may be tough.  Who will miss the 400th pre-med wannabe at Big State U?  However, going to a smaller school where he is one of 5-6 pre-meds that year may provide the individual attention that he needs.  His faculty advisor's recommendation will be accurate, and his taking advantage of any opportunities for health-related summer employment, summer research, etc. will not go unnoticed.  Besides, the small school needs all of their qualified students to make it, so they will personally invest in him all their efforts to help him succeed.

Finally, have him major in what he likes.  Having a B.B.A. with pre-med qualifications is not that preposterous, whether he is figuring out how to keep on the lights at his 500-bed hospital under "nationalized" healthcare, or working for an HMO, or even in his own practice.

Just my opinion, but I hope that it helps. :)



I just read your profile.  Assuming you are an MD/DO, much of what I said is not new.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 06, 2007, 08:17:24 PM
 Great advice. He fits the #2& #3 criteria. He has already won a Cornell award so let's see what happens.
Thanks again
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Gray Fox on August 06, 2007, 10:19:12 PM
Here is a list of all the D3 football programs.  There are none in Florida.

http://d3football.com/schools.php

The school guidance counselor should be able to get you started down the right path based on what has been discussed here.  Most d3 coaches know they are part of the education process and make allowances for afternoon labs, etc. that conflict with football. 
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 07, 2007, 08:32:45 AM
Thanks we have started the process.  :)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 07, 2007, 08:35:17 AM
Gray Fox,
Would it not be marvelous to start a D3 football program in Florida? What would it take?
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Gray Fox on August 07, 2007, 08:46:02 AM
Quote from: FootballFanatic on August 07, 2007, 08:35:17 AM
Gray Fox,
Would it not be marvelous to start a D3 football program in Florida? What would it take?
Money. :'(

"Small"  schools.  There are also no programs in many western states like Arizona.

Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: labart96 on August 07, 2007, 01:42:15 PM
My in-laws live near a small D3 private liberal arts school in Central Florida.  This school offers water skiing as a sport since it's on a lake but no football.

Would think the endowment of this school could support football, but perhaps the Trustees, Admin, etc aren't interested?
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 07, 2007, 05:01:57 PM
Would agree. Financial strong school. Their are several in Florida which would fit the bill. 8)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 07, 2007, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on August 07, 2007, 01:42:15 PM
My in-laws live near a small D3 private liberal arts school in Central Florida.  This school offers water skiing as a sport since it's on a lake but no football.

Would think the endowment of this school could support football, but perhaps the Trustees, Admin, etc aren't interested?
There are no D3's in the state of Florida.

As much I like D3, there need to be 8 D3's in that area, if there will be one.

The isolation that we have in Texas puts an incredible (and relative) disadvantage on those schools.  :)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: labart96 on August 07, 2007, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 07, 2007, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on August 07, 2007, 01:42:15 PM
My in-laws live near a small D3 private liberal arts school in Central Florida.  This school offers water skiing as a sport since it's on a lake but no football.

Would think the endowment of this school could support football, but perhaps the Trustees, Admin, etc aren't interested?
There are no D3's in the state of Florida.

As much I like D3, there need to be 8 D3's in that area, if there will be one.

The isolation that we have in Texas puts an incredible (and relative) disadvantage on those schools.  :)

My bad, you are correct.  The school I was thinking of is in fact a D2.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: ADL70 on August 07, 2007, 07:21:07 PM
Don't overlook Case Western Reserve Univeristy.  The medical school and University Hospitals are on campus and the world renowned Cleveland Clinic is close by.  In addition to a liberal arts pre-med program, biomedical engineering is offered as well.

The institution is on the rise academically and athletically.  New dorms have increased enrollment and new athletic facilities are bearing fruit.  The M Soccer team was a regional finalist, losing to a final four team in a shoot-out.  The football team has its largest recruiting class ever with three All-Ohio recruits and they return three all region players.  They have produced a nominee for the Draddy Award ("academic Heisman") each of the last two years and a Gagliardi nominee (d3's Heisman).  Plus they have a great young coaching staff.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 07, 2007, 07:27:57 PM
My son filled out the football questionaire do to their academic excellence. This is great info. to now. Thanks. 8)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: frank uible on August 07, 2007, 07:38:00 PM
Plus they are the alma mater of Warren Lahr.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 07, 2007, 07:48:24 PM
You got me with that one, Frank!  For any others who were unaware, Warren Lahr was a defensive back for the Cleveland Browns from 1949-59 (thanks, Google!).
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: frank uible on August 07, 2007, 08:03:39 PM
More than that he was a Browns All-Pro defensive back of Pro Football HOF quality, who, while attending Western Reserve University, lived 2 houses down the street (Bellflower Road) from me for 4 years at the Delta Kappa Epsilon house and to whom I hand delivered the Cleveland Press as he sat on the house's front porch - what a memorable thrill for an eleven year old!
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 07, 2007, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: cwru70 on August 07, 2007, 07:21:07 PM

...
They have produced an onimee for the Draddy Award ("academic Heisman") each of the last two years and a Gagliardi nominee (d3's Heisman).  Plus they have a great young coaching staff.
:D ;D :D ;) :)
cwru70,

Were you a lineman?  I am trying to understand why my fingers do the same stupid things like:

1)  firing on the wrong count, i.e., the space bar went one count too late, after the "n" instead of before it.
2)  execute the wrong blocking pattern, i.e., the "n" goes to the left side of the "i" in "onimee"  and the "m" goes to the right.

All I know is that I took high school typing in the fall during football season, and I didn't have 10 working fingers on any two consecutive days in class!

:D :D :D

Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Knightstalker on August 07, 2007, 08:46:14 PM
I also have those problems, and I took typing during the track season and my right fingers were thicker and got in the way more from putting the shot and throwing the discus.  The javelin was the only one that didn't screw with my hand, but it taught me how to throw a wicked slider.

And of course there is always that little schools in Maryland, Hohns Jopkins.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: ADL70 on August 07, 2007, 08:55:10 PM
Fat stubby fingers is my excuse.  My more common typos are taht and yo.  Can't find u?
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Gray Fox on August 07, 2007, 09:14:59 PM
My fingers are dyslexic.  :-[
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Knightstalker on August 07, 2007, 09:29:43 PM
I once complained to my guitar professor about my thick stubby fingers.  She just looked at me and said "Andres Segovias fingers are shorter and fatter than yours.  Play it again."
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 07, 2007, 09:56:36 PM
My excuse is cigar in one hand, Cuban of course...
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: ADL70 on August 07, 2007, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: cwru70 on August 07, 2007, 08:55:10 PM
Fat stubby fingers is my excuse. 

Then again may be I'm just getting old.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on August 08, 2007, 12:03:13 AM
Add any UAA school to the list for pre-med.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: frank uible on August 08, 2007, 12:53:41 AM
Knightstalker: See Django.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on August 08, 2007, 02:01:15 AM
Quote from: cwru70 on August 07, 2007, 08:55:10 PM
Fat stubby fingers is my excuse.  My more common typos are taht and yo.  Can't find u?

I'm teh king of "teh." (yes, I did that one on purpose)

But we digress.

I have received e-mail from parents twice this preseason. I will share heavily-edited versions of their e-mails, with their permission, so as to protect their identities. Although, I'm certain one of the parents who e-mailed me found his way to this board already :) ... which is a good thing.

For first-time readers and parents, start at the beginning of this thread. You may get a lot of the general answers that you're looking for.

Then, as you have specific questions, you'll find that our online community is eager to help out, if you can withstand a few biased promotions for their own schools. (No need to schill for Randy-Mac, BTW, although they have a mean Poly Sci dept.)

This thread might be helpful in these type of discussions:

Which D-III conferences are the best for academics AND athletics?  (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4986.0)

Also, if you find anything where a guy says he's looking for a school to transfer to, you can almost always bet the advice from our very wise crowd is to find a good fit, academically and socially, and let football fall into place afterward. Nothing on the field is guaranteed anyway, so you might as well find a place you enjoy and benefit from regardless of how much you play or how many games you win.

Below is the exchange between one parent and I. Feel free to answer any questions of his that you feel you haven't already touched on.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on August 08, 2007, 02:06:31 AM
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Name of parent" <Parent's e-mail address>

Keith,

Hope you can help me. My son [Name of student-athlete] is a stellar academic student  (should graduate summa cum laude with 4.1+gpa, all honors classes at [name of high school] & in the top 5 ranking in his class currently).

Has played 3 years of football at nose tackle & switched to fullback this spring. He played very little freshman year, started at NT his sophomore year & played 50% his junior year. The problem, 5'9 210 pounds who runs a TRUE 4.8 & as the coaches say, "he can bring it". He is being used as a ferocious blocker & pass catching out of the back field. Hopefully he will grow soon as I am 6ft , my wife 5'10 & his older brother who is currently at [Midwestern D 1-A power], is 6'2". The coaches expect a great senior year for him as he is at the right football position now.

Since he wants to be a physician (I am a dentist), what are the best D3 medical programs he can look at while still playing college football? Also what is the best way to approach a D3 school so he can receive a great education & play football which is his passion?

I went to [different Midwestern D-1) & gave up going to play football at Tufts or Carnegie Mellon which were my 2 choices as an all city, all conference football & soccer player. He does not want to make the same mistake & wants to play football as long as possible. Sorry for being so winded but hope this helps. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
[name of parent]

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith@D3football.com
To: [name of parent]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Football Fullback

[name of parent],
Best way to get a well-rounded answer would be to let me share this on our message board. I can withhold the names and identifying details if you wish, but I get similar questions several times a year and the best answers really do come from the community we've developed online. There are a lot of fathers and school alumni on board, and their responses are generally thoughtful and wide-ranging. I'll tell you what I think either way, but you'll probably get more from everyone.

Sounds like you guys are on the right track with D3, pursuing the education first and a football fit second. A couple other details might help you get good recommendations: whether or not geography is a factor (does he want to stay semi-close to home or is the entire country an option?), are there cost limitations, scholarship needs or any preference as to whether he plays for a program with great history/potential to win, or anything like that. Obviously you'd prefer a style of offense that uses a fullback.

Just let me know if posting it on the board is OK with you before I go ahead and do it.

Keith McMillan
D3football.com National Columnist
Keith@D3football.com

------------------- parent's reply --------------------
Keith,

Firstly, my humble thanks to you for your prompt reply & interest. Posting is absolutely fine & yes we would prefer to withhold names for now.

[name of student-athlete/son] is a great kid, brilliant (#3 currently in his class) & all around work horse. [name of high school] puts out several D1 players each year & has a rigorous academic program.

Geography is not an issue, but our preference would be east coast. No cost limitations, & tradition would be great but not necessary. The main factor is the education. Where can he  get a great education  & yet follow his dream of playing college football.

Feel free to post & again can't thank you enough. God bless you & yours for your help. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any help in the future.

Regards,
[name of parent]
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on August 08, 2007, 02:28:31 AM
OK,
I was actually denied permission to post the other one; the mother may or may not stop by this thread on her own to post a rephrased version of her question.

Basically though, the son was a great D3 candidate and true student-athlete who'd been told he was a good fit for a spread offense. The mother sounded like she had a clear idea about prioritizing athletics first, and they were looking for a place where the son would fit in academically and athletically.

Specifically, they were looking for some East Region schools who ran the offense, and I said I could give some insight off the top of my head, but it would be better to hear from the whole board as my list would be inconclusive.

Here's part of my response to her:

> I can tell you a few who do run the spread (RPI, Rowan, N.J., Delaware
> Valley, Pa. Hobart, I believe, although they officially list their offense
> as "multiple." I think I recall Amherst running a spread too) and a few who
> definitely don't (Cortland, Ithaca, Brockport, Springfield, Williams,
> Trinity, Coast Guard, Worcester State) off the top of my head, but that's an
> incomplete list, so I think the best answers will come from the larger
> group. Having seen so many teams and games over the years, the details
> sometimes run together. I hope you'll forgive me for that non-answer.
>
> The New York schools, however, especially those in the Liberty League, are
> very active on our message board and will probably answer your question from
> several angles.
>
> The good news is it sounds like [your son] is a good fit for Division III and you
> guys are miles ahead of where some people are at this point. We have had
> some good discussions on the board for parents as well, I often refer people
> to those, but I think you've got a good handle on what's what.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: smedindy on August 08, 2007, 08:57:41 AM
About the first one - I would advise against going 'pre-med' and actually just majoring in biology or chemistry. Heck, at Wabash we've had religion majors that went to med school.

He needs to look hard at the med school placement rates and the average MCAT scores (and how many take the MCATs).

However, many pre-med kids wind up philosophy majors with history minors just because they find their true passion!
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: generals08 on August 08, 2007, 12:10:53 PM
I would not worry about the spread offense.... don't make a college decision based on school system's. Coaches change, school's don't. Obviously an intelligent young man not sure socially what they are looking for. But my team, Washington and Lee, is filled with successful student athletes. And every year our team alone sends three or four kids to outstanding med schools. Johns Hopkins is another great pre-med program with a DIII team. Just to throw out some Va. schools with high academic standings.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 08, 2007, 12:47:15 PM
Anyone direct contact at Washington & Lee? John Hopkins?
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Murphy on August 08, 2007, 12:55:24 PM
Just kind of curious if this kid is everything his father says he is why he needs to find a school to play for. 

If he is everything advertised (I am not al all suggesting that he isn't) it would seem to me that some 1-AA schools Cornell, Bucknell or other Patroit or Ivy league schools would have found him already.  Perhaps even some D-II schools.

BTW 4.8 speed is good for a NT not so great for a fullback.

Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: generals08 on August 08, 2007, 12:56:56 PM
I'm not sure about Johns Hopkins. But the head coach at Washington and Lee is Frank Miriello. His email is miriellof@wlu.edu. And the school website is www.wlu.edu
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Knightstalker on August 08, 2007, 01:19:30 PM
Here is the link to the  Johns Hopkins  (http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/school-bio/jhop-staff.html) athletic department staff directory and has the emails of the coaches.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 08, 2007, 01:20:04 PM
I have seen his previously were kid is in wrong position or position that is best for the team ,then switches during junior spring or senior year fall.

I think you answered your own question of 4.8 for fullback is not Bucknell or Ivy material.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: frank uible on August 08, 2007, 01:23:45 PM
In my view, consistent, legitimate, hand held 4.80 speed is good for a fullback at most DIII colleges.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: labart96 on August 08, 2007, 01:24:57 PM
Here's some info re: Hobart's pre-med programs.  Our science facilities have won several awards.

http://www.hws.edu/academics/programs/healthprofessions.asp
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 08, 2007, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: frank uible on August 08, 2007, 01:23:45 PM
In my view, consistent, legitimate, hand held 4.80 speed is good for a fullback at most DIII colleges.

Agree . If the kid is also bright, could possibly get academic scholarship. 4.8 for fullback should be competetive at D3.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 08, 2007, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on August 08, 2007, 01:19:30 PM
Here is the link to the  Johns Hopkins  (http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/school-bio/jhop-staff.html) athletic department staff directory and has the emails of the coaches.

How about the NESCAC school? They seem to have quite an academic reputation, graduation rate & professional school acceptance.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Knightstalker on August 08, 2007, 02:18:00 PM
Here is the link to all the D-III schools on this site, just click on the schools you are interested in and then find the school link on the page.
http://www.d3football.com/schools.php
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: 'gro on August 08, 2007, 03:23:09 PM
Tufts has a good med school program, I have a friend in the MD/PhD program (also got his BS in Chem there). Hopkins is another good choice.

Re: Kid wants to play in the spread offense
I would agree there are a few schools you would not want to attend (springfield, coast guard), but trying to find a school that fits you and passes alot seems kind of hard.  Do they still air it out at Hartwick?
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: labart96 on August 08, 2007, 05:40:23 PM
Quote from: FootballFanatic on August 08, 2007, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on August 08, 2007, 01:19:30 PM
Here is the link to the  Johns Hopkins  (http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/school-bio/jhop-staff.html) athletic department staff directory and has the emails of the coaches.

How about the NESCAC school? They seem to have quite an academic reputation, graduation rate & professional school acceptance.

In general, I would say across the board NESCACs will have the rep, grad rate and grad school acceptance that would be desired by any serious student.

I have also heard that Tufts has a very well regarded pre-med program.

I can't speak specifically to the brand of offenses these schools run, but realistically at this stage the NESCAC is a 3 team league (Trinity, Amherst and Williams), at least from a competitive standpoint.  You can obviously get great educations at a Bates, Midd, Hamilton, Colby, Wesleyan, Tufts and Bowdoin, but if you want to see your kid win more than 1-4 games a season, he'd need to look at either the Bants, Jeffs or Ephs.

I also believe that most NESCACs are fairly liberal arts in focus - they probably offer Bio/Chem and majors that can lead to med school, but my assumption is that they wouldn't have a more specific pre-med program like those you'd find at a Hopkins, CMU or Rochester, etc.  Tufts, however, seems to be an exception here.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Gray Fox on August 08, 2007, 07:35:13 PM
There is a current conversation on the NESCSC board about choosing one of these schools from a player's point of view.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: 'gro on August 08, 2007, 08:48:40 PM
I wasn't going to be a homer on this topic. I knew RPI had plenty of majors that would easily transition to med school (chem, biology, biochem), but now I know that they do have a specific premed program, which seems to be a chemistry curriculum with some counseling towards med school placement. Have at it.

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem/academic/undergraduate/premed.html

I'd still go for a UAA school (one with it's own med program), then Tufts, then a school like RPI, Hobart, etc.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: smedindy on August 09, 2007, 08:11:08 AM
But again, you're locking yourself in, and making college seem like a trade school instead of a chance to learn and explore.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on August 09, 2007, 10:23:36 AM
You can possibly learn and explore at any of those schools. Honestly, curriculum is also a very important aspect to look at when searching for a school. Some schools offer more or less room for diverse academic growth than others.

To pick a school, I would take the top ten to twenty schools of whatever field I am interested in, and then match it for not only for the ordinary facets (ie: school type, location, size, athletic teams, social, etc.), but also for diversity of majors, opportunities to change majors, structure of the academic program, summer study abroad (assuming the athlete wouldn't want to miss a semester), number of electives allowed, etc. To avoid the "trade school" mentality its all about choices with your class and semester schedule.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on August 09, 2007, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: frank uible on August 08, 2007, 01:23:45 PM
In my view, consistent, legitimate, hand held 4.80 speed is good for a fullback at most DIII colleges.

Agreed. I also wouldn't be surprised if it's not that great for I-AA, although in my ever-so-humble opinion, speed is not the most important trait for a fullback.

This particular kid is not from an Ivy League state. Even though they tend to recruit the country, I see how he could be missed. Also, since the Dad had offers from Tufts and Carnegie Mellon, he appears to be aware of what some Division III schools have to offer in terms of keeping a playing career alive while giving life to a professional career in something else.

Nice recruiting everyone. Do you get a finder's fee if you land a kid for your alma mater?

Johns Hopkins = not in Va. I'm sure generals08 knew that, his post about "just some Va. schools" left it a little unclear.  ;)

Gray Fox ... you read the NESCAC board?
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: 'gro on August 09, 2007, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: smedindy on August 09, 2007, 08:11:08 AM
But again, you're locking yourself in, and making college seem like a trade school instead of a chance to learn and explore.

anyone can change their major (or go back to school for a career change) but you're there to learn a specific course of study.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: frank uible on August 09, 2007, 02:05:59 PM
On the other hand I bet you can find some fullbacks who are playing in the Big Ten and who do not run faster than 4.80/40 - but their coaches will probably admit that they wish the players were faster.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: smedindy on August 09, 2007, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: 'gro on August 09, 2007, 12:53:53 PM
anyone can change their major (or go back to school for a career change) but you're there to learn a specific course of study.

Well, I don't know how many times I've seen students come in with an idea that they will study X and graduate in four years studying Y and Z. Kids also get depressed sometimes when they try to become that doctor but their heart is actually in art history.

Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: frank uible on August 09, 2007, 05:34:09 PM
What percentage of students commence college with the intention of becoming a practicing M.D. but end up doing something else in life? My uneducated guess is about 70%.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 09, 2007, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: smedindy on August 09, 2007, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: 'gro on August 09, 2007, 12:53:53 PM
anyone can change their major (or go back to school for a career change) but you're there to learn a specific course of study.

Well, I don't know how many times I've seen students come in with an idea that they will study X and graduate in four years studying Y and Z. Kids also get depressed sometimes when they try to become that doctor but their heart is actually in art history.



No kidding..I rather be coaching football than Doctoring ???
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: 'gro on August 09, 2007, 08:07:53 PM
Hey, I'd rather be reconditioning a boat on the shores of Zihuatanejo, Mexico (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph9fibL10Jg)... but that don't pay gro's bills.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 10, 2007, 10:01:31 AM
Quote from: 'gro on August 09, 2007, 08:07:53 PM
Hey, I'd rather be reconditioning a boat on the shores of Zihuatanejo, Mexico (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph9fibL10Jg)... but that don't pay gro's bills.

Bills are "overrated" ;D
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: 'gro on August 10, 2007, 02:34:32 PM
my posts on this thread have been somewhat sarcastic, but my point is that college is expensive (especiallya majority of D3's) and when a person graduates they should have a skill set that will allow them to pay those bills that will start coming in 6 months.

It's a hard thing to tell an 18 year old to go out, have fun, learn something they enjoy doing, and prepare for the next phase of life... but for 30 grand a year they better be applying themselves to something more than "the experience".

That's why I went to a "trade school".
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 10, 2007, 05:28:25 PM
'gro,

What you say has a great deal of merit, but with the ever-changing job market (including the likelihood that some 'major' career fields in ten years don't even currently exist) and the incredible variety of individual career paths, knowing precisely what is or is not a viable 'skill set' may be less than perfectly predictable.

Don't forget that the richest man in the world is a college dropout! ;)

My older son, soon to be a college sophomore, often worries because he has no idea what he wants to major in.  I tell him to relax, try any course that strikes his fancy, and the 'muse' will strike when he's ready.  I switched majors first semester SENIOR year (still graduated in four) and (while never making much money as a college lecturer in sociology) have never regretted it (well, except for a long-repressed desire to be a canoeing guide). ;D
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: frank uible on August 10, 2007, 06:07:38 PM
Fifty years after graduation I'm still waiting for my muse to present itself.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: cawcdad on August 10, 2007, 08:38:38 PM
Good advice Mr. Ypsi. I had a complete career change and went back to school a number of years after graduation. My brother has an MBA with his BS in engineering. You never know what lies in your future. Learn as much as you can, whenever you can and enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: smedindy on August 10, 2007, 11:57:56 PM
I just want my children to learn and study what ever they want, no matter what the cost. Life is all about experiences, and if they want to major in something esoteric then go to grad school that's fine by me.

Life is for living, not working.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Tex on August 11, 2007, 10:44:46 AM
First time poster here.  I'm in a similar situation with my son, but slightly ahead of some it appears.  He's a two star OL guy according to Scout.com, but as a 6'0" guard, it's been difficult.  He's getting the most love right now from the Ivy League and one or two CUSA schools.  Most of them are looking at his athleticism and projecting him for the D-line. 

But, every kid needs a fall back position.  So, we went off vising some local D-3 schools.  Here's the funny part.  One of those d-3 schools might have moved ahead of some of the D-1A and D-1AA schools he's been talking to!  My son scored a 30 on his ACT so he's probably going to get a decent chunk of merit scholarship money.  Still quite a financial burden, but less so than the Ivy League.  (And a lot closer to home.)

So, D-3 can actually be more attractive to some students than D-1 it appears.  I think the biggest selling points are the education first, but the committment from the coaches to academics first.  What do I mean... well, in these D-3 programs they talked to him about practice schedules and how much of a time committment football demands.  It is very muc on par with what he's doing now at his big time 5A high school program here in TX.  Compare that to the D-1 time committments football places on you and well, if you want any sort of life at all, D-1 is tough.  Plus in D-1, you might not see the field until you're a Jr or Sr.  In D-3, you have a legitmate shot at being a 3 year starter if you've got the tools and committment to the game. 

I guess when d-3 gets in front of prospective athletes, they do pretty well.  For the kid that needs to play in front of 30,000 people every Saturday, D-3 isn't for them.  But, for the kid that wants to be able to go home in the summers and work out on his own, or be able to have a girl friend and spend any decent amount of time with her, or wants to major in something difficult and wants to have his coaches support on his major, then D-3 is a great option.   Playing the game because  you love the game.  I'm not saying that D-1 and D-2 guys don't love the game.  YOu have to love it to succeed, but many of them are thinking NFL and such.  D-3 is all about the love the game and being a true student-athlete.

So, for our family, the recruiting pressure is now off.  If a great scholarship offer comes through, he'll have something to compare it to, maybe his "ace in the hole."  i'd encourage all you parents of potential recruits to show your sons all their options.  Show  the D-1A, D-1AA, D-2 and D-3.  You might be suprised at the outcome.  I know I am.  We'll see how it works out and I promise to come back and let you know what decisions are made between now and the first week of February. 
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 11, 2007, 11:56:51 AM
Tex, almost certainly your son is headed for grad school after college, so that is another 2-4 years of "tuition" and living expenses.

If your son were a 34-36 SAT, then I would be pushing the Ivy League schools.  Lake Highlands HS in Dallas sent a football player to Princeton every year for about 5-6 years when my kids were in high school.  Those type players are more uncommon.  If the Ivies, come then look at that seriously.

Take as much academic scholarship money as he can get to attend an acceptable school of his choosing.  At a D3, he will be a big fish in the pond.  The leadership opportunities and other chances for him to excel will abound.

Best wishes to your son and to you and your family!

Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on August 15, 2007, 01:57:37 AM
Tex,
You sound to me like you've got a good understanding of what it's all about. There are major advantages to D3, just as there are advantages to the other levels. Most important is to find a place that fits your son's needs, and as you noted, you guys are right on track with that.

Not to mention that you're fortunate enough to have a son who's done well enough to where you have chosen to back off and let him make his decision, whatever it may be. Not everyone has that luxury, or takes advantage of it.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Tex on August 15, 2007, 09:40:05 AM
It kills me to see guys on his team that have unbelievable talent, but no grades.  If you can't qualify, you can't play.  It breaks my heart.  Unfortunately by the time they get to high school, it's often almost too late.  We've got to get to them earlier. 
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 15, 2007, 10:05:14 AM
Quote from: Tex on August 15, 2007, 09:40:05 AM
It kills me to see guys on his team that have unbelievable talent, but no grades.  If you can't qualify, you can't play.  It breaks my heart.  Unfortunately by the time they get to high school, it's often almost too late.  We've got to get to them earlier. 

Ditto. Even as freshman in high school or earlier.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Tom33 on August 22, 2007, 12:16:12 PM
D3 ball is a great opportunity. Compared to the the D1 programs you have a lot better overall college "experience". For any "undersized" football player that has dreams of playing in college, do your research and go for visits. You can always walk on some where or even go into coaching.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Tex on August 22, 2007, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: Tom33 on August 22, 2007, 12:16:12 PM
D3 ball is a great opportunity. Compared to the the D1 programs you have a lot better overall college "experience". For any "undersized" football player that has dreams of playing in college, do your research and go for visits. You can always walk on some where or even go into coaching.

Very true.  One example of coaching I know is Jim Bob Helduser, currently with Texas A&M as their O-Line coach.  JB played at Texas Lutheran and was the head coach at SWTS (now called Texas State). 
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FootballFanatic on August 22, 2007, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: Tom33 on August 22, 2007, 12:16:12 PM
D3 ball is a great opportunity. Compared to the the D1 programs you have a lot better overall college "experience". For any "undersized" football player that has dreams of playing in college, do your research and go for visits. You can always walk on some where or even go into coaching.

Great advice. Their are many D3 schools with excellent academic & athletic programs, the total package. 8)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: TheeBuffaloSabres on October 03, 2007, 12:24:50 PM
as far as academics go, college is all about how much effort you put in to your studies, the general impression the prof has of you and who you meet in school to help you get your career started. As far as football is concerned, your son better LOVE football, or he wont make it.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 02:22:56 PM
Got a couple of offseason e-mails I thought I'd put out there for your general expertise (as many heads are better than one). Here's the first:

Quote----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff XXXXXXXX"
To: Keith@D3football.com
Subject: Hey Keith

I have read a few of your D-3 comments and threads and I appreciate your experience...My question is how much financial aid is usually given to a kid of very good size and admission acceptable grades? 50%, 75% 90%????
Any comments are appreciated.

Jeff

Jeff,
I apologize for the delay in responding; I check my football e-mail very infrequently during the offseason.

Size, or football skill in any manner, has very little to do with it, but since aid is not athletic-based, it varies from school to school. It's often need-based, or based on academics ... Personally I was a good student and a decent player coming out of high school and got about $5,000 a year in academic scholarships, $5,000 in grants, $1,000 in work-study on-campus jobs, and the rest I had to make up with outside scholarships, student loans or money out of my parents' pockets. Of course, back then I was only trying to get to $18,000. Back in the mid-90s.

I don't know if that helps or not. Maybe if you could provide the school or schools you're considering, we can locate someone who is in touch with their current practices and could give you a better idea.

Keith


Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 03:39:49 PM
Here's another:

Quote----- Original Message -----
From: "xxxxxxxxx"
To: keith@d3football.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:33:37 PM
Subject: DIII ?

Someone told me that D3 football is lower than Community College.  How true is that?
Also, is it true that D3 athletes do not get scholarships?

[name withheld]

Hello xxxx,
Sorry I haven't had a chance to reply, I don't check my football mailbox daily during the offseason.

With regard to your question, whoever told you that is not someone I'd be relying on for football-related advice. First, most community colleges don't even have football teams; it's not cost-effective. Second, there are 235 football-playing schools in Division III, and they cover a wide range of institutional profiles, from 10,000-student state schools who beat 63-scholarship Division I-AA teams, to 600-student private schools who struggle to compete with their fellow D3s. Division III covers such a wide range that it's hard to generalize.

Division III schools do not offer scholarships based on athletic ability alone, but for good students, or for students with a financial need, there are very competitive aid packages available. They vary from school to school and situation to situation, but it's not be a stretch to say that some aid offers from Division III schools would be competitive with a partial athletic scholarship offer from some Division II or NAIA schools. You'd really have to examine your situation closely to find what's the best fit for you.

If you're a parent of a potential college football player, I encourage you to take a look at our Parents thread, which is designed for those new to Division III football and a sort of open forum where you can ask questions of the Division III populous and get specific answers.

Here's the address: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4015.0

I will post your question anonymously and my answer on Page 7 of the thread, but you might learn a lot starting at the beginning. Whether you choose a D3 school or not, the general theme of the advice is usually to identify your child's priorities, and then to help figure out what works best for you.

Keith McMillan
National Columnist & Managing Editor
Keith@D3football.com



Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 03:47:47 PM
Nice reference material from Ryan Wood of Active.com (http://www.active.com/football/Articles/Crunching_the_Numbers__Football_Scholarships_24402.htm):

The short of it is a reminder that not everyone who plays scholarship football can offer full scholarships.

Here's an excerpt:

FBS programs are allowed 85 scholarships on its roster at any given time, and generally can sign up to 25 players per year. All 85 scholarships are full rides. There are no partial scholarships given in FBS football.

FCS schools have 63 scholarships to be distributed, and up to 30 incoming players each year can be given aid.

Division II programs have 36 scholarships to be distributed, though some conferences don't allow their schools to have that many. Football scholarships at Division-II institutions can be divided among as many players as a program wishes. Most Division-II players are on partial scholarships.

There are no athletic scholarships in Division III athletics. Though there's no chance of getting a football scholarship at a Division III school, it is possible to receive an academic scholarship or a need-based grant that can help financially while you play football.

NAIA football programs are permitted 24 scholarships to be spread out in any way.

NJCAA programs are permitted 85 scholarships.

It's also a reference as to how many schools are in each classification.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: WIplayer on April 07, 2009, 01:21:50 PM
Is there a message board for the WIAC?  I can't seem to find one.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Just Bill on April 07, 2009, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: WIplayer on April 07, 2009, 01:21:50 PM
Is there a message board for the WIAC?  I can't seem to find one.

Of course.  Instead of giving you the direct link I'll give you the navigation path so you can find it yourself:

Men's Basketball | West Region | Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Women's Basetball | Central Region | WIAC

Football | West Region | Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Baseball | Midwest Region | BB: WIAC: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Women's Soccer | Central Region | WIAC

Men's Soccer: (There's no dedicated thread, but you can find WIAC discussion under Central Region | Central Region Talk)
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: The Forgotten Man on April 22, 2009, 09:10:40 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 02:22:56 PM
Got a couple of offseason e-mails I thought I'd put out there for your general expertise (as many heads are better than one). Here's the first:

Quote----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff XXXXXXXX"
To: Keith@D3football.com
Subject: Hey Keith

I have read a few of your D-3 comments and threads and I appreciate your experience...My question is how much financial aid is usually given to a kid of very good size and admission acceptable grades? 50%, 75% 90%????
Any comments are appreciated.

Jeff

Jeff,
I apologize for the delay in responding; I check my football e-mail very infrequently during the offseason.

Size, or football skill in any manner, has very little to do with it, but since aid is not athletic-based, it varies from school to school. It's often need-based, or based on academics ... Personally I was a good student and a decent player coming out of high school and got about $5,000 a year in academic scholarships, $5,000 in grants, $1,000 in work-study on-campus jobs, and the rest I had to make up with outside scholarships, student loans or money out of my parents' pockets. Of course, back then I was only trying to get to $18,000. Back in the mid-90s.

I don't know if that helps or not. Maybe if you could provide the school or schools you're considering, we can locate someone who is in touch with their current practices and could give you a better idea.

Keith




My son was "recruited" by several DIII schools and was excited about several of them. Alas, the FAFSA formula said I could afford to hock everything I own and pay the full tuition amounts. He is a pretty good player and even had a partial scholarship offer to an FCS school that he decided wasn't for him. He had good grades and is an eagle scout but no aid was forthcomning from any of the DIII schools. He was looking at huge loans, just because he wanted to play football. Then he decided to look at a nearby school with a new football program. The school was/is great, the coaches and facilities are great, and the tuition was more reasonable. He decided to go there. And then he was blessed with an academic scholarship that helped with some of the tuition.

So, the moral of my story is keep looking at alot of options. The right school is out there if you make the effort to seek it out.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: FZ6 on May 04, 2009, 07:38:00 PM
Hello, My son is a junoir in high school and just took his SAT exam for the first time. His score was below average(1100), and he will retake them on June. He has a tutor and he is going to A SAT prep class also. He is 6"1" and 245lbs he benches 425lbs and squats 525 lbs. He will be starting on the OL line for the 2nd year. He is a GREAT KID, comes from a good family, does lots of community service, has a 3.2GPA and decent class ranking. Will his low SAT score cost him a chance to be recruited? Also any tips to get him noticed here in Pennsylvania.  Thanks for your Time!!!! :-\
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: The Forgotten Man on May 14, 2009, 01:01:37 PM
Quote from: FZ6 on May 04, 2009, 07:38:00 PM
Hello, My son is a junoir in high school and just took his SAT exam for the first time. His score was below average(1100), and he will retake them on June. He has a tutor and he is going to A SAT prep class also. He is 6"1" and 245lbs he benches 425lbs and squats 525 lbs. He will be starting on the OL line for the 2nd year. He is a GREAT KID, comes from a good family, does lots of community service, has a 3.2GPA and decent class ranking. Will his low SAT score cost him a chance to be recruited? Also any tips to get him noticed here in Pennsylvania.  Thanks for your Time!!!! :-\

You don't need to sit back and wait for them. Contact the schools he is interested. Send them game fillm. Go visit them. The contact and visit is crucial.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on September 15, 2009, 02:27:10 PM
Forgotten Man, good story and good advice.

I'll be sending more parents this direction this season.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on September 15, 2009, 04:44:00 PM
FZ6

I'll add one thing to Forgotten Man's great advice.  +1

Living in Pa . you have a plethora of schools to chooose from. DI, DIIA, DII and DIII. That being said he will no doubt be seen by someone, somewhere even if they are looking at other players on his team or playing against him. BUT do visit as many schools as you can because there are some great campuses to see. Not only that but depending on your local there are some fine schools in N.J., N.Y, Del.and Md also. The more schools you visit the better you and especially your son will be able to judge by talking to the coaches what kind of person they are and how your son would fit in academically and sports wise
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on October 25, 2009, 04:23:39 AM
Hey all,
Got a couple new e-mails and since I'm about to be off the grid for a week, I thought I'd let you guys take a stab at helping them. I'm sending them this way.

Quote> Dear Keith
> I'm new to D3 website and found your response most encouraging...I'm
> trying to find anyone who might help me rank the competitiveness of D3
> leagues... My son is academically strong and I have a nice intro tape
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r62QjzhAj9U and some half games available
> to send as he seeks a D3 where he could play. Might you offer any comments
> and or leads on who might help advise me. He's willing to go to any state.
>
> Thanks for all you do for kids.
> rich

Here's the other one:

QuoteMy son is a senior this year @ GooseCreek Memorial HS in Baytown, TX.
He's a QB and is 5'10" and weighs about 170.  So, D1's aren't going to
be knocking on our door.  We have a recruiting website set up for him @
www.collegecoaches.net.  So far, he's had several coaches from D3 and
D2's (some D1's) looking at him and have also contacted him as well.



What I wanted to ask you was how competitive are the D3's and D2
colleges in states outside of Texas?  My son (Cody Larson) has been
contacted by coaches from Peru, Dana, and Concordia (all located in NE)
which are D2's.  He has also been contacted by University of Wisconsin -
Stout (D3).  I wasn't sure if some areas of the United States weren't as
competitive in regards to football as Texas. 



We're not so concerned with the division size (D2 vs D3) as we are the
quality of the football program and conferences the colleges play in. 



Cody just wants to play competitive football while getting an education.
I would like your opinion in regards to the divisions as well as NAIA
vs. NCAA.



THANKS

Michele Larson

Also got two from players looking to transfer, but that's a more delicate situation.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2009, 01:16:59 PM
Greetings Ms Larson (and hello Rich... D-3 basketball is different in Colorado where I assume Loveland High School is located.)

This previous 7 pages of this message board have the advice that has been given by many posters to several parents.  The message is still the same.   :)

1.  Your son needs to go to a campus where he would feel at home, were he not playing football.   Does it offer his degree plan? Does he like the feel of the school?  Does it seem like home?  Is the financial aid package that he can get within his/your budget?

2.  If he is not going to play much in the first year, do they have a JV program that brings him into the system?

3.  How close to home is it?  (Of course, Baytown, TX to everywhere else is several hours drive in D-III.)  Is that even a concern?

The thoughts of playing in a competitive conference are excellent.  Winning and playing competitive football make the experience more enjoyable.  In fact, winning a conference championship in a less nationally competitive conference is a fair consideration, especially if he is getting plenty of playing time.  The American Southwest Conference is one of the best 5 D-III football conferences in the nation.  There is very little in NAIA in the state, and Dana and Concordia NE are all NAIA in the Great Plains Athletic Conference.  Peru State is an independent NAIA school.

Don't be fooled by the term, "athletic scholarship".  Price the entire package.  He may be able get a better aid package that does not include an "athletic scholarship" at a D-III than the package he would get at an NAIA or D-2 school.

Out of state tuition for a Texas resident is likely to be as expensive in Wisconsin as private college tuition in Texas, all things considered.

D-III is not "high school" or "glorified intramural" ball.  Most teams have D-1 and D2 transfers who played at the other levels and moved to D-III for many reasons not related to the sport.

As a Texan, I am proud of the competition in the ASC.  Please look here first, because he will see many of the players against whom he played in high school playing in the ASC.  All of the ASC schools do a good job of preparing student athletes to compete in the real world.  Almost any other poster can validly say that same thing about their local D-III conference and teams, including the SCAC fans at Austin College, Trinity, Millsaps, and the new program at Hendrix in Conway AR.  Almost every successful program is geared towards retaining student-athletes on their way to graduating.  (If he is looking at coaching/teaching as a profession, then the ASC experience will be invaluable.  Coach Hal Mumme, formerly at Head Coach University of Kentucky and New Mexico State, felt the appeal to returning to Texas to coach as one of the things that brought him back to Texas and to McMurry.)

Thanks and email me if you have any other questions.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 25, 2009, 05:31:56 PM
For those who want to see the relative strength of d3 conferences (but at this late date don't want to shell out for Kickoff ;)), Keith reproduced the listing in his October 8th ATN column.  While these were the assessments prior to the 2009 season, relative strength of conferences is pretty stable year-to-year (I doubt a similar assessment today would move any conference more than a slot or two)..
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: K-Mack on October 25, 2011, 01:25:39 PM
I'm not particularly sure how to answer this question anymore. Thoughts?

QuoteCan one of you tell me what's the best way to get football highlights
featuring my high school senior son to D3 recruiters for consideration?

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: Knightstalker on October 25, 2011, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 25, 2011, 01:25:39 PM
I'm not particularly sure how to answer this question anymore. Thoughts?

QuoteCan one of you tell me what's the best way to get football highlights
featuring my high school senior son to D3 recruiters for consideration?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Post them on YouTube and send the link to the programs you want to see them.
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: BlueJayNation on October 25, 2011, 10:47:52 PM
There are a number of services out there that can assist you with contacting D3 recruiters. Some are better than others. With most, you pay a lot for things you can easily do yourself. Some will offer good advice and give you good value. If you choose to go this route, make sure you get a reference first.

As an alternative, I highly recommend www.gobigrecruiting.com (http://www.gobigrecruiting.com).  You can post a player profile and upload films to the site. Coaches actively search the site for players that meet their criteria and request access to films if interested. There's a $5 charge you pay to provide access to each school. You can also proactively send schools a request to to view the film and you are notified when it's viewed.  I have nothing to do with this service and have nothing to gain, I just know it was a highly effective and relatively inexpensive way to get my son's films out to coaches when he was being recruited. I'll use it for my other son this year.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Parents with children looking to play in D3
Post by: fulbakdad on December 06, 2011, 06:32:15 PM
On what to do with the video highlights-

I made DVD copies of my sons highlights and sent them out during his junior and senior year to MANY schools.  We had lot's of contacts and a pretty enjoyable recruiting voyage.  My son went to a Prep School in Mass and his school hosted one of the regional combines.  During that combine I met and spoke with Brent Williams (Former New England Patriot DT who played 13 years in the NFL) who was there for one of the high priced recruiting companies.  He gave some advice on what to put in the highlight video and it appeared to work.  Here were some of the suggestions:

Most kids play both ways in high school.  Seperate the highlights by what they do.  For example, my son played fullback/linebacker.  I seperated his clips in the following 1-running plays, 2-blocking plays, 3-defense plays.

Keep the highlight film somewhat short.  5-7 minutes, so cut out the fluff.

No music.  The first one I did I had music playing in the backround.  After thinking about what he said, it made sense to me.  Every college coach will be sitting in front of a computer watching houndreds of these videos.  If it's a type of music he doesn't like, well, NEXT!

Then on the DVD, copy the best full game video you have.  That way, the coach will have the opportunity to see your kid play an entire game.  Do they make a highlight play, then take a play off?

When you have your finished DVD, compose a letter that you can personlize to each school you send it to and add it to the mailing package.  Then send them to the schools you might think he'd be interested in and see if there's any interest.

My son just finished his Freshman year at Lake Forest College in Chicago where he worked his way to starting Linebacker.  Was even selected Midwest Conferance Player of the week for one of his games.  There is some very good competition in D3 and you can find a much better academic fit here.

Good Luck!