Liberty League

Started by Saint of Old, August 12, 2014, 12:14:06 PM

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stlawus

I still don't know how there aren't enough hotel rooms in the radius given that Potsdam and Canton have several hotels now.

brewer_faithful

Those Vassar boys should be proud of their dance. New Coach, losing 2 of 3 all-league players from last season, and no true goal scorer returning yet they managed to finish unbeaten in the league and go toe-to-toe with 2 nationally ranked teams in the dance.

With no seniors graduating and more time to work with the new coach,  these boys should be primed for a breakout season in 2023. Should be fun to watch!

nescacfan94

Quote from: brewer_faithful on November 13, 2022, 09:39:51 PM
Those Vassar boys should be proud of their dance. New Coach, losing 2 of 3 all-league players from last season, and no true goal scorer returning yet they managed to finish unbeaten in the league and go toe-to-toe with 2 nationally ranked teams in the dance.

With no seniors graduating and more time to work with the new coach,  these boys should be primed for a breakout season in 2023. Should be fun to watch!

Saw both games. Vassar was very impressive this weekend. That team, if it comes back intact with a few 1st year additions, will do great things next year. They were gifted a penalty in the slop in Maine yesterday, and the result was the right one imho, but Vassar was right there, on short rest on the road after a tough game the day before.

Saint of Old

Vassar is quality and their first year head coach HOODwinked everyone he faced in conference and will keep doing just that.
I think the confidence a young team gets from dancing is immeasurable and Brewers will be a difficult group for a while to come. Definitely cemented tbeir status as a big team in the LL and region this season.

Saint_Dad

Quote from: slu888 on November 13, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Tough result but the writing was on the wall a bit....huge and physical (and talented) Amherst squad, small field, SLU coming off a Shoutout win and had to play 21 hours later...

Hoping we save a few extra hotel rooms in Canton so the boys can host next year!
It's a little late but doesn't this also come down to foresight and optimism from the AD?  With a scheduled home football, hockey and hosting regional cross country event, was there ever a chance?
Does SLU think they can do it again next year?  If so, the AD should limit the home games at SLU for the first weekend. The soccer team would have been a favorite to get to the second weekend rather than a huge underdog at Amherst.  Really a shame to miss out on that deserved honor.

PaulNewman

No guarantees with hosting even if you do a good planning for it.

They most likely would have had to beat out both Amherst and Oneonta to host.  Babson finished #1 in Reg 2 and still had to go to Bowdoin and play Vassar first round.

Saint of Old

Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 14, 2022, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: slu888 on November 13, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Tough result but the writing was on the wall a bit....huge and physical (and talented) Amherst squad, small field, SLU coming off a Shoutout win and had to play 21 hours later...

Hoping we save a few extra hotel rooms in Canton so the boys can host next year!
It's a little late but doesn't this also come down to foresight and optimism from the AD?  With a scheduled home football, hockey and hosting regional cross country event, was there ever a chance?
Does SLU think they can do it again next year?  If so, the AD should limit the home games at SLU for the first weekend. The soccer team would have been a favorite to get to the second weekend rather than a huge underdog at Amherst.  Really a shame to miss out on that deserved honor.
Losing socks man. It really does. I think that the boys are on the upswing. The program has been great for a long time and good programs don't have the benefit of rebuilding but have to reload while making the dance each year. That being said, SLU is a program that will be hitting them harder in the next 5 years than it did the previous 5.
Coach has found his feet and playing a style of football that can win  NCAA games and go very deep with some luck. The team learned and grew tremendously this season and has some great Saints coming back to push us even further.
Cannot blame the AD for this one, no one alive is more responsible for putting the Saint program where it is than the current AD. If there is anything that can be done to help this team I assure you he would likely be on board.
Great to have your voice all season long Saint Dad.ooking fwd to watching your boy even.more in seasons to come.

Flying Weasel

#2047
Being a even-numbered year with men having hosting priority the first weekend, Amherst was going to be the host as the highest seed in their pod (and their quadrant overall).  Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not wouldn't have mattered. 

Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not, in theory, should not have impacted where the Saints were placed in the brackets as the bracketing should be completed before they start looking at hosting assignments. I'm not sure I can completely 100% believe that potential hosting options aren't in the back of their minds when forming the brackets, especially out west, but I can imagine it's minimal.  So I wonder if the committee determines who are their top 16 seeds (based on the selection/ranking criteria) and, to the extent that geography cooperates, gives them each their own 1st/2nd Round pod.  Looking at this year's brackets and the first/top teams in each pod bracket which corresponds to the highest seed in that pod, and comparing those teams to the final Regional Rankings and data, it seems very plausible that those are the committee's top 16 seeds.  St. Thomas was the highest seed in their pod but did not host--could be because they did not bid to host or because of something the committee found unsatisfactory about their field/facility/hosting capabilities.  And of all the pod top seeds, St. Thomas would also be the most questionable to have been among the top 16 seeds nationally.  Babson or St. Lawrence might have been the 16th seed nationally, but geography meant someone out west needed to host a pod of west teams (there were five Region X teams in the field, and they weren't going to fly them all to separate pods). 

So who knows, St. Lawrence may have been the 16th seed and if not for the west being without a top 16 seed, might have had their own pod (and avoided Amherst) even if they couldn't host due to not having put in a bid.  Now that's just a mental exercise and speculation on my part, and to be honest I'd guess Babson would have been ahead of St. Lawrence in the seeding and more likely to have been the 16th seed if St. Thomas was not among the top 16. Either way, St. Lawrence likely was very close to having their own pod, but when they didn't get that, geography/travel and trying to keep conference rivals separated as long as possible  (I don't think any pod has two teams from the same conference) resulting in the Saints being handed a tougher 2nd round opponent than their seeding would have otherwise earned them. 

Regardless of teams' seeding or WLT records, to have had the best shot of advancing to the Sweet 16, Messiah would have probably been better off with any of nearly 80% of the teams in the tournament over Williams.  But that's who they got.  Not all paths to the Final Four are equal, and sometimes you get a favorable path, other times not.  Champions have to win and overcome whatever they're faced with, and this year the Falcons didn't do that.

Kuiper

#2048
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Being a even-numbered year with men having hosting priority the first weekend, Amherst was going to be the host as the highest seed in their pod (and their quadrant overall).  Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not wouldn't have mattered. 

Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not, in theory, should not have impacted where the Saints were placed in the brackets as the bracketing should be completed before they start looking at hosting assignments. I'm not sure I can completely 100% believe that potential hosting options aren't in the back of their minds when forming the brackets, especially out west, but I can imagine it's minimal.  So I wonder if the committee determines who are their top 16 seeds (based on the selection/ranking criteria) and, to the extent that geography cooperates, gives them each their own 1st/2nd Round pod.  Looking at this year's brackets and the first/top teams in each pod bracket which corresponds to the highest seed in that pod, and comparing those teams to the final Regional Rankings and data, it seems very plausible that those are the committee's top 16 seeds.  St. Thomas was the highest seed in their pod but did not host--could be because they did not bid to host or because of something the committee found unsatisfactory about their field/facility/hosting capabilities.  And of all the pod top seeds, St. Thomas would also be the most questionable to have been among the top 16 seeds nationally.  Babson or St. Lawrence might have been the 16th seed nationally, but geography meant someone out west needed to host a pod of west teams (there were five Region X teams in the field, and they weren't going to fly them all to separate pods). 

So who knows, St. Lawrence may have been the 16th seed and if not for the west being without a top 16 seed, might have had their own pod (and avoided Amherst) even if they couldn't host due to not having put in a bid.  Now that's just a mental exercise and speculation on my part, and to be honest I'd guess Babson would have been ahead of St. Lawrence in the seeding and more likely to have been the 16th seed if St. Thomas was not among the top 16. Either way, St. Lawrence likely was very close to having their own pod, but when they didn't get that, geography/travel and trying to keep conference rivals separated as long as possible  (I don't think any pod has two teams from the same conference) resulting in the Saints being handed a tougher 2nd round opponent than their seeding would have otherwise earned them. 

Regardless of teams' seeding or WLT records, to have had the best shot of advancing to the Sweet 16, Messiah would have probably been better off with any of nearly 80% of the teams in the tournament over Williams.  But that's who they got.  Not all paths to the Final Four are equal, and sometimes you get a favorable path, other times not.  Champions have to win and overcome whatever they're faced with, and this year the Falcons didn't do that.

On St. Thomas, I'm sure they didn't even put in a bid to host a game because they don't have an on campus field and don't control the fields they use, which are available for rental when not in use by their primary tenants.  Their primary home field is Houston Sports Park, which is the training site for the MLS Houston Dynamo and the NWSL Houston Dash or, when that's unavailable, Aveva Stadium, which is a 4000 seat stadium at the same complex that is outfitted for the local Major league Rugby team, the Houston SaberCats.  The fields and facilities are fine, but not great when you don't know for sure if you are getting the automatic bid (and have no guarantee of a Pool C bid) until the day before the DIII selections occurred.  Since they put the Region X pod last year at Pacific Lutheran, I assumed they placed it at Mary Hardin-Baylor, which has great on-campus facilities, just to rotate it between Texas and the Northwest (given that there were two teams from each of those areas and only one from Southern California and the SCIAC).

Saint_Dad

I definitely would have preferred to see SLU go down to Franklin and Marshall instead of Cortland.  The extra hour and 20 minutes would have been worth it.  Although I get it has to do with the regions.  But we definitely deserved it over Cortland.  They got a great draw and are an excellent team. Glad to see the SUNYAC teams doing well.

deutschfan

Brewer faithful welcome to the board.  Need to balance out the SLU tribe.  A number of the impact seniors like Fauth and Wnorowski and Lane have a year of eligibility left due to the lost COVID year.  What makes you think they will return?  A couple actually came back for a 5th year in 2021.  Vassar doesn't have a graduate school and putting aside financial aid its tuition is one of the nation's most expensive.  It would be nice to see them return after the great run Vassar had but as RPI found out in 2021 and 2022 having fifth years doesn't necessarily translate to success. 

Saint of Old

Welcome Brewer.
Many of us Saints tend to gather over here where it is safe. You can get beat up on the BigDance board for stating what you think is a benign non threatning opinion :)

I am sure all the LL coaches are finalizing next seasons class as we speak.  The best recruiter might just win it all next season.

Hopkins92

Quote from: Saint of Old on November 15, 2022, 11:48:22 AM
Welcome Brewer.
Many of us Saints tend to gather over here where it is safe. You can get beat up on the BigDance board for stating what you think is a benign non threatning opinion :)

I am sure all the LL coaches are finalizing next seasons class as we speak.  The best recruiter might just win it all next season.

C'mon now... You had plenty of support.

:D

stlawus

#2053
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 15, 2022, 11:48:22 AM
Welcome Brewer.
Many of us Saints tend to gather over here where it is safe. You can get beat up on the BigDance board for stating what you think is a benign non threatning opinion :)

I am sure all the LL coaches are finalizing next seasons class as we speak.  The best recruiter might just win it all next season.

On this front, it does seem like Toshack is now back to utilizing some of the recruiting tactics that have come to define the program.  NYC connection has started to come back a bit, the Toronto recruiting roared its head this season, the tall NE CB is here for another 4 years and next year a pretty high prized recruit from Orlando will be making his way to Canton.     

Vassar has a major California recruiting pipeline which paid them dividends this season, and I know Hood was hitting that trail this summer to get guys for next year.  Highly unlikely they regress much next season, if at all.  As Saint has said, confidence does a program wonders and the Brewers started a good amount of underclassmen this year who have now tasted that success and will be hungry for more.

deutschfan

Vassar has been mining and finding gold nuggets in California for over a decade.  It will be interesting to see if/when there will be a recruiting boost.  After Vassar made the second round in 2012 (after their beat of Tufts motivated Tufts to win multiple national championships) their class beginning in 2013 was good but not as great as the following year when they enrolled multiple players with USSDA experience.  My surmise is that next year's class is pretty much set and the positive effects of taking Bowdoin to PKs won't be on full display until 2024.  Also helping Vassar are US News righting a wrong and moving back it back up the LAC standings, and the failure of highly rated LAC schools like Hamilton, Wesleyan, Swarthmore, Carleton and Haverford to make the playoffs and cancellation of Claremont's season due to hazing (in case the good Californians wanted to stay home).