Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!

[Yankeesoccerdad]

Felt really bad for MW #18 Luwis who got beat by Boardman towards the back post especially because up to that point I thought he had been the best player on the pitch on the day.

# 18 Luwis also played great against Amherst and Bowdoin two weeks ago.  Smart player, always in the right place and very fast.

[pittsfieldpete]

If soccer goes to die at Williams, then what happens at all these schools that have lost to them in the tournament? The way I see it, Soccer is a game, played over 90 (or 110) minutes, where the team that scores more goals wins. Seems like Williams is doing a great job executing their gameplan and the results speak for themselves.

I'm reminded of something that Bill Mazeroski is supposed to have said to Steve Blass, when he drew Sandy Koufax as the opposing pitcher: "Shut 'em out, and we'll play for a tie."

I agree that Williams is where soccer goes to die.

I think that what was curious about yesterday's game was that during the first 15-20 minutes of the first half Williams showed that they have the players to actually play a prettier game. Not sure why SS has opted to play this way this season but with one game in left in the season, hard pressed to see him making any changes. It'll be interesting to see how Chicago responds.

[PaulNewman]

Felt really bad for MW #18 Luwis who got beat by Boardman towards the back post especially because up to that point I thought he had been the best player on the pitch on the day.

# 18 Luwis also played great against Amherst and Bowdoin two weeks ago.  Smart player, always in the right place and very fast.

Yes, with the exception of the ball Kirkland scuffed five yards in front of the net I thought Luwis had the best chances for MW. He made a run with the ball across the 18 and nearly curled a beautiful shot into the top right corner that went just high.  He also won a ton of balls all over the field.

I give a ton of credit to Boardman.  He's very hard to keep track of even knowing to look out for him.

[PaulNewman]

If soccer goes to die at Williams, then what happens at all these schools that have lost to them in the tournament? The way I see it, Soccer is a game, played over 90 (or 110) minutes, where the team that scores more goals wins. Seems like Williams is doing a great job executing their gameplan and the results speak for themselves.

I'm reminded of something that Bill Mazeroski is supposed to have said to Steve Blass, when he drew Sandy Koufax as the opposing pitcher: "Shut 'em out, and we'll play for a tie."

I agree that Williams is where soccer goes to die.

I think that what was curious about yesterday's game was that during the first 15-20 minutes of the first half Williams showed that they have the players to actually play a prettier game. Not sure why SS has opted to play this way this season but with one game in left in the season, hard pressed to see him making any changes. It'll be interesting to see how Chicago responds.

Good observation.  I thought Williams in the first 20 minutes came out and played with a more overtly offensive posture.  And even though I am highly critical of the style in general, I chalk this up to another really smart move by Siebert.  I'm guessing he thought MW would anticipate the Ephs playing how they did against Messiah and Kenyon and 1) was more confident that Williams could score on a MW team that has given up a lot of goals; and 2) he figured they could surprise MW with an early goal that would put MW in a really bad position especially given that quick starts by MW played a big role in their success with Amherst and Bowdoin.  In the early going, the MW GK also had some very nervy moments, including at least twice trying to juke Ephs right around his own six.

[northman]

Dave McHugh wanted to go back to get another look at that possible handball in the box by Williams in the final two minutes, but the production crew never replayed it. Both he and Ira Thor reacted as though they had seen a handball, but from that angle and distance you couldn't really tell conclusively without a replay from an alternate camera.

I went back on the video several times, and it sure looked like the defender opened up his arms (making himself bigger) and caught that ball with his right hand when the MW player ducked.  No intentional by any means, but a handling offense nonetheless.  Tough to call that in that situation, and the act by the MW player to bend over really put the ball in a difficult spot for the defender, but that's why you get the whistle in the Final Four.

Sure wish we had better angles on the video.

As a neutral party calling the games, I truly felt what we saw was a handball. While I know it's a tough call for an official to make in that spot, if that's a handball in the 8th minute, then it is a handball in the 89th minute. I stand by what I said.

With that said, the Chicago/Stevens game was by far the better of the two and you would think that Chicago is the favored team heading into the finals. But Dr. Siebert's team seemingly always finds a way. It's almost like they have the cheat codes for the video game. They are the aggressor when they need to be but they don't put themselves in peril with poor decisions. They completely took Josh Kirkland out of the game and as good as Carter Berg was for UMW (and I think he's the better of the two players IMO), the Williams back 3 or 4 was better.

Without having watched either game live, I just checked out the highlights on NCAA.com and saw the hand ball.  Without having any other context, my immediate impression was that it should have been a penalty.  However, without VAR in collegiate soccer...what can you do?

[blue_jays]

Dave McHugh wanted to go back to get another look at that possible handball in the box by Williams in the final two minutes, but the production crew never replayed it. Both he and Ira Thor reacted as though they had seen a handball, but from that angle and distance you couldn't really tell conclusively without a replay from an alternate camera.

I went back on the video several times, and it sure looked like the defender opened up his arms (making himself bigger) and caught that ball with his right hand when the MW player ducked.  No intentional by any means, but a handling offense nonetheless.  Tough to call that in that situation, and the act by the MW player to bend over really put the ball in a difficult spot for the defender, but that's why you get the whistle in the Final Four.

Sure wish we had better angles on the video.

As a neutral party calling the games, I truly felt what we saw was a handball. While I know it's a tough call for an official to make in that spot, if that's a handball in the 8th minute, then it is a handball in the 89th minute. I stand by what I said.

With that said, the Chicago/Stevens game was by far the better of the two and you would think that Chicago is the favored team heading into the finals. But Dr. Siebert's team seemingly always finds a way. It's almost like they have the cheat codes for the video game. They are the aggressor when they need to be but they don't put themselves in peril with poor decisions. They completely took Josh Kirkland out of the game and as good as Carter Berg was for UMW (and I think he's the better of the two players IMO), the Williams back 3 or 4 was better.

Without having watched either game live, I just checked out the highlights on NCAA.com and saw the hand ball.  Without having any other context, my immediate impression was that it should have been a penalty.  However, without VAR in collegiate soccer...what can you do?

Definite penalty, ref was too scared to call it, no other explanation. Mary Washington will be salty about that non-call for the rest of recorded time, as they should be.

[Yankeesoccerdad]

Here is the video.  it took a couple of minutes to find so thought folks would like the link.

https://www.ncaa.com/video/soccer-men/2022-12-01/diii-mens-soccer-2022-semifinal-recap

Definite handball.  He instinctively tucks in his arm afterward to act like nothing happened.

It seemed like the refs were reluctant to call fouls in either game yesterday, while in the prior tournament games I saw this year soft fouls (at least relative to NESCAC standards) were consistently called fouls.

[Gregory Sager]

Yep. Definitely a handball. Slowing down the replay really made the difference.

[SimpleCoach]

If soccer goes to die at Williams, then what happens at all these schools that have lost to them in the tournament? The way I see it, Soccer is a game, played over 90 (or 110) minutes, where the team that scores more goals wins. Seems like Williams is doing a great job executing their gameplan and the results speak for themselves.

I'm reminded of something that Bill Mazeroski is supposed to have said to Steve Blass, when he drew Sandy Koufax as the opposing pitcher: "Shut 'em out, and we'll play for a tie."

I agree that Williams is where soccer goes to die.

I think that what was curious about yesterday's game was that during the first 15-20 minutes of the first half Williams showed that they have the players to actually play a prettier game. Not sure why SS has opted to play this way this season but with one game in left in the season, hard pressed to see him making any changes. It'll be interesting to see how Chicago responds.

This. 

You have captured why I despise teams who play Neanderthal Ball.  It's not that they play this way, it's that they don't have to.  It's a choice, a coach's choice not a lack of talent.  Which is why if I am a talented player, forgetting the whole school thing .... I wouldn't go to Williams.  Why?  So I can learn to kick the ball real hard?  So at my best I am trying to create chaos? 

And now for my undiplomatic observations ...

Congratulations to them if they win.  You did everything you needed to do to lift the trophy.  Thats the nature of these things.  And am ok with that.  It would be boring if every team played the same way.  But as a soccer player and a coach, I would be embarrassed with how we went about winning.  Right or wrong, that still matters to me.  The How.

So if I have to lose, at least I know that my bench wasn't celebrating tackles that could leave the opponent with a busted ankle.  Or cheer because I cleared the ball out of bounds.  So that if I have to lose, I know that I tried to play better soccer than you, not because I was able to destroy whatever semblance of a game that was trying to be played.

Nonetheless I fully expect Williams to rightly celebrate if they beat Chicago tomorrow.  It something you may never experience again.  But know that at least for this observer, there is nothing remarkable about what you do on the field.  And if I have a chance to watch Williams play the Williams way OR perform a root canal on myself without any Novocain and using only industrial drills and tools available at a Lowes or Home Depot, the choice is clear to me. 

I get all sorts of mad award points when I spend money at Lowes ...

I am done with this subject and look forward to finding out who the next National Champion will be.

SC.

[Ejay]

If soccer goes to die at Williams, then what happens at all these schools that have lost to them in the tournament? The way I see it, Soccer is a game, played over 90 (or 110) minutes, where the team that scores more goals wins. Seems like Williams is doing a great job executing their gameplan and the results speak for themselves.

I'm reminded of something that Bill Mazeroski is supposed to have said to Steve Blass, when he drew Sandy Koufax as the opposing pitcher: "Shut 'em out, and we'll play for a tie."

I agree that Williams is where soccer goes to die.

I think that what was curious about yesterday's game was that during the first 15-20 minutes of the first half Williams showed that they have the players to actually play a prettier game. Not sure why SS has opted to play this way this season but with one game in left in the season, hard pressed to see him making any changes. It'll be interesting to see how Chicago responds.

This. 

You have captured why I despise teams who play Neanderthal Ball.  It's not that they play this way, it's that they don't have to.  It's a choice, a coach's choice not a lack of talent.  Which is why if I am a talented player, forgetting the whole school thing .... I wouldn't go to Williams.  Why?  So I can learn to kick the ball real hard?  So at my best I am trying to create chaos? 

And now for my undiplomatic observations ...

Congratulations to them if they win.  You did everything you needed to do to lift the trophy.  Thats the nature of these things.  And am ok with that.  It would be boring if every team played the same way.  But as a soccer player and a coach, I would be embarrassed with how we went about winning.  Right or wrong, that still matters to me.  The How.

So if I have to lose, at least I know that my bench wasn't celebrating tackles that could leave the opponent with a busted ankle.  Or cheer because I cleared the ball out of bounds.  So that if I have to lose, I know that I tried to play better soccer than you, not because I was able to destroy whatever semblance of a game that was trying to be played.

Nonetheless I fully expect Williams to rightly celebrate if they beat Chicago tomorrow.  It something you may never experience again.  But know that at least for this observer, there is nothing remarkable about what you do on the field.  And if I have a chance to watch Williams play the Williams way OR perform a root canal on myself without any Novocain and using only industrial drills and tools available at a Lowes or Home Depot, the choice is clear to me. 

I get all sorts of mad award points when I spend money at Lowes ...

I am done with this subject and look forward to finding out who the next National Champion will be.

SC.

Of course Williams, and Amherst, and many others have the talent to play the beautiful game beautifully.  But the ultimate goal is to win a championship, and given the rules of D3 soccer, teams that play direct and physical will often fare better - especially if they have players who can also contribute a possession skillset (i.e. good first touch, vision, off ball movement, etc.).

I've said it a million times - no 50yr old soccer player will ever look back at his youth/college experience and say fondly "I never won anything, but man did we move the ball well".

[Saint of Old]

If soccer goes to die at Williams, then what happens at all these schools that have lost to them in the tournament? The way I see it, Soccer is a game, played over 90 (or 110) minutes, where the team that scores more goals wins. Seems like Williams is doing a great job executing their gameplan and the results speak for themselves.

I'm reminded of something that Bill Mazeroski is supposed to have said to Steve Blass, when he drew Sandy Koufax as the opposing pitcher: "Shut 'em out, and we'll play for a tie."

I agree that Williams is where soccer goes to die.

I think that what was curious about yesterday's game was that during the first 15-20 minutes of the first half Williams showed that they have the players to actually play a prettier game. Not sure why SS has opted to play this way this season but with one game in left in the season, hard pressed to see him making any changes. It'll be interesting to see how Chicago responds.

This. 

You have captured why I despise teams who play Neanderthal Ball.  It's not that they play this way, it's that they don't have to.  It's a choice, a coach's choice not a lack of talent.  Which is why if I am a talented player, forgetting the whole school thing .... I wouldn't go to Williams.  Why?  So I can learn to kick the ball real hard?  So at my best I am trying to create chaos? 

And now for my undiplomatic observations ...

Congratulations to them if they win.  You did everything you needed to do to lift the trophy.  Thats the nature of these things.  And am ok with that.  It would be boring if every team played the same way.  But as a soccer player and a coach, I would be embarrassed with how we went about winning.  Right or wrong, that still matters to me.  The How.

So if I have to lose, at least I know that my bench wasn't celebrating tackles that could leave the opponent with a busted ankle.  Or cheer because I cleared the ball out of bounds.  So that if I have to lose, I know that I tried to play better soccer than you, not because I was able to destroy whatever semblance of a game that was trying to be played.

Nonetheless I fully expect Williams to rightly celebrate if they beat Chicago tomorrow.  It something you may never experience again.  But know that at least for this observer, there is nothing remarkable about what you do on the field.  And if I have a chance to watch Williams play the Williams way OR perform a root canal on myself without any Novocain and using only industrial drills and tools available at a Lowes or Home Depot, the choice is clear to me. 

I get all sorts of mad award points when I spend money at Lowes ...

I am done with this subject and look forward to finding out who the next National Champion will be.

SC.

Of course Williams, and Amherst, and many others have the talent to play the beautiful game beautifully.  But the ultimate goal is to win a championship, and given the rules of D3 soccer, teams that play direct and physical will often fare better - especially if they have players who can also contribute a possession skillset (i.e. good first touch, vision, off ball movement, etc.).

I've said it a million times - no 50yr old soccer player will ever look back at his youth/college experience and say fondly "I never won anything, but man did we move the ball well".

The ideal is to be able to say both

[PaulNewman]

Btw, loving retirement lol.

Since we're analyzing calls and non-calls, I'd appreciate someone who is good with video taking a look at a couple of plays...

First one is a Kenyon goal called back and play begins with around 12:25 left in 2nd half with game still 0-0 (on video comes around 1:57 mark).  Domino correctly has noted that the AR never raised his flag even though box score play by play and recaps say offsides.  Now seems like center ref must have called a foul because I certainly don't see offsides.  Also don't see a foul although camera shot is far away.  Diffley appears to spill the cross, lands at Kenyon foot, tapped in.  Kenyon players especially Carson hysterical that goal waved off.

Second one occurs about 90 secs after Williams scored...a handball shout that looks rather similar to MW handball non-call.  Close range, Upton hits shot towards upper right corner clearly on frame from about 7-8 yards out and Williams defender blocks ball with arm/hand extended on ball Diffley had no chance on.  Kenyon players had immediate reaction and Williams defender waves his arms as though to say, no, no, no.  What appears to be obvious handball goes uncalled.  This play begins with around 6:00 min left (or at 2:04:30 mark).

https://www.northcoastnetwork.com/kenyon/?B=464841

[Saint of Old]

Tough one PN.
I thought Kenyon had a great chance to climb the mountain this year. I am sure they will be back, one of the most consistent teams out there.

[martin]

If you will be in Chicago's scenic Hyde Park neighborhood tomorrow, Nella Pizza e Pasta will be hosting a Soccer Doubleheader Brunch, USA vs Netherlands at 9am, followed at 11am by Your University of Chicago Maroons vs some effete liberal snobs from Connecticut, New Hampshire or one of those places who call themselves Gs or Hs or some other letter. May the best team from the south side of Chicago win.

Nella is located at:
1125 E 55th St
Chicago, IL  60615
(773) 643-0603
https://nellachicago.com/

The restaurant is in the Jeanne Gang designed North Residential Commons which you can have named after yourself for $35 - $40 million.  Nella has won Michelin Bib Gourmand 2020, 2021 and 2022.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Clrgk8utN1-/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y

[irapthor]

Here is the video.  it took a couple of minutes to find so thought folks would like the link.

https://www.ncaa.com/video/soccer-men/2022-12-01/diii-mens-soccer-2022-semifinal-recap

Definite handball.  He instinctively tucks in his arm afterward to act like nothing happened.

It seemed like the refs were reluctant to call fouls in either game yesterday, while in the prior tournament games I saw this year soft fouls (at least relative to NESCAC standards) were consistently called fouls.

I think we all agree. As an announcer, I was trying hard not to harp on it... I didn't want to ruin the overall moment of the win for Williams. But I also would not have been doing my job had we not talked about it.