BB: General NY Region Talk

Started by Bob Maxwell, October 18, 2007, 02:03:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Who will represent the New York Region in the Division III Baseball World Series?

SUNY Cortland
7 (43.8%)
Ithaca
0 (0%)
Stevens
1 (6.3%)
Rochester
2 (12.5%)
Non-Region Team
6 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 16

BaseB13

The more I give this some thought, I think NY will almost have to be an 8 team regional.  I think many on this board will  be disappointed but I would not be surprised if we get several teams from out of region.  My projection is this:

In No particular order.

Cortland (SUNYAC A)
Ithaca (Pool B)
Keystone (NEAC A)
Penn-State Behrend (AMCC A)  (They often times their conference winner in NY)
Farmingdale (Skyline A)
Rochester (LL A)
NESCAC Pool C (Williams or Amherst)
Western New England College (Pool A TCCC)

As much as Rochester struggled with SJFC and lost, I still think they're hands down the best team top to bottom.  RPI didn't fare well with Skidmore over the weekend (Having to win 2 games in the 9th inning).  However, I think the LL is a toss up either way.  I do think RPI has a better chance of a Pool C because they have won 30 games and they have the best long term reputation of any NY region team that may not receive a Pool A bid. (Still think there is a better chance of two NE teams)

I picked the two NE teams mostly based on geography.  (EConn could be in there also).  WNEC is in Springfield which is western mass and Williams is as well.  I see Amherst is ranked higher in region than Williams but Williams has a better record and is a higher seed in the NESCAC.  Kinda odd.  I think picking the NE teams is a crapshoot regardless.



pudge27

Does anyone know when the tournament started having auto bids and what is the criteria for a conference to have one (why not E8, for example)? 

I know that the automatic bids are a good thing for some teams, like a .500 club that gets hot, but would the tournament overall be better without them?  I don't know enough about most of the teams that BB13 listed, so I'm not going to pass any judgements on  them.  My point is and this may be a similar occurrence in other regions, there may be a more deserving team that gets left out because a very weak conference has an auto bid.  Let's say that UR (sorry for the example Boomer) does just so-so in the LL tournament.  They may get left out, but could be a much better team than Keystone or Farmingdale.  Or even better, what if RPI doesn't win the LL and they get left out with 30 wins?  Again, I don't know anything about those downstate or out of region teams, so this is hypothetical.  There's good and bad points to autmatic bids, which weighs heavier?

Big Louie

you need to have 7 teams in a conference participating in a particular sport the E8 has only 5


BoomerIL

pudge27....

No need to apologize!

"Son playing baseball in college.....Awesome!"

"UR getting a chance at an invite to the NCAA Regionals if they don't win the Liberty League Tournament outright.....Unbelievable!!"

"Winning the Liberty League Tournament as the conference champion and going as a Pool A team.....PRICELESS!!!"
"You observe alot by watching"  -  Yogi Berra

John McGraw

Quote from: pudge27 on May 07, 2008, 12:49:30 PM
Does anyone know when the tournament started having auto bids and what is the criteria for a conference to have one (why not E8, for example)? 

I know that the automatic bids are a good thing for some teams, like a .500 club that gets hot, but would the tournament overall be better without them?  I don't know enough about most of the teams that BB13 listed, so I'm not going to pass any judgements on  them.  My point is and this may be a similar occurrence in other regions, there may be a more deserving team that gets left out because a very weak conference has an auto bid.  Let's say that UR (sorry for the example Boomer) does just so-so in the LL tournament.  They may get left out, but could be a much better team than Keystone or Farmingdale.  Or even better, what if RPI doesn't win the LL and they get left out with 30 wins?  Again, I don't know anything about those downstate or out of region teams, so this is hypothetical.  There's good and bad points to autmatic bids, which weighs heavier?

You have automatic bids in every sport no matter how many or how few conferences. You're never going to get the best 54 teams. Are good teams left out? Sure, but, they could've made the tournament had they won the games they were supposed to.

BaseB13

Exactly John.  That's the beauty of it.  Take March Madness for DI hoops.. That's what makes it so exciting that fact that a mid major team has a chance to win it all.  If it weren't for the conferences in D1 hoops there'd be no point in having half the teams.  Might as well take the best 6 teams from every major conference and put them in the tournament.. But then there wouldn't be a George Mason like a couple yrs ago.

To a lesser extent thats what should happen in D3 baseball.  Certain conferences will have stronger programs and they could be competing for that one spot.  This is exactly why the LL went to 24 games, to put 60% of their teams scheduling emphasis on that all important automatic bid. 

BaseB13

Actually wanted to ask a question, maybe someone knows the answer to this.  Ralph maybe?
What are the limits on post season tournament participation? I know a D3 program can play 40 regular season games and then participate in one additional tournament that puts them over the 40 game limit (i.e. Conference tournament or ECACs).  Any games after that would only be allowed in NCAA's after that.  However, if for example a team plays 35 regular season games and 3 conference tournament games, are they then eligible to play in ECAC's because their conference tournament games did not break the 40 game threshold?  Is my understanding correct that if a team played 40 regular season games and 1 or more conference tournament games then they would not be eligible to play in ECAC's?  Hope someone can shed some light.

Big Louie

you are allowed to play 40 regular season games, not counting a postseason tourney.  The NCAA counts the conference tournament as an exemption and your allowed 1 of these, so a school can technically participate in both a conference tourney and ECAC's as long as they are under the 40 regular season games. If a team is at 37 games played which is the case for Oneonta and Brockport, they must win the ECAC tourney in 3 games otherwise they would be over the 40 game total and therefore would be inelgible to participate in NCAA's.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Johnny Baseball on May 07, 2008, 11:14:06 PM
You are allowed to play 40 regular season games, not counting a post-season tourney.  The NCAA counts the conference tournament as an exemption and your allowed 1 of these, so a school can technically participate in both a conference tourney and ECAC's as long as they are under the 40 regular season games. If a team is at 37 games played which is the case for Oneonta and Brockport, they must win the ECAC tourney in 3 games otherwise they would be over the 40 game total and therefore would be ineligible to participate in NCAA's.
That is the way that I understand it.  :)
(Thanks, Johnny)

BaseB13

Thanks for the clarification. 

a) So if Brockport and Oneonta had gotten all 40 regular season games played, and then played in their conference tournament, they could not play in ECAC's if they wanted an NCAA bid correct?

b)  Because SJFC and RIT do not play a conference tournament, wish SJFC being at 39 games, if they play say 3 ECAC games, are they are still eligible for NCAA's because they didn't play a conference tournament?

AlleyCat

Both Brockport and Oneonta have 41 and 40 games played to this date. That means both have played 37 regular season games and 1 post season tournament already. If they play to the final of the ECAC and play over 3 games they cannot be in consideration for the NCAA's. They would violate the games played rule because the ECAC would count towards their regular season. SJF and RIT all OK because their league means nothing anyway. I will say it again Ithaca should be made to compete at this tournament if it has any weight for an NCAA bid. If they are not in it, it should be a nice end of the season tournament for the participants.

Big Louie

the fact of the matter is Ithaca doesn't have to compete.....playing in this tournament only allows teams a chance to play some of the regionally ranked teams to help there chance at a bid.  Winning pct vs. regionally ranked opponents is 1 of the primary selection criteria.  Why shouldn't teams have a chance to play all 40 games that their allowed......all ECAC's does is allow these 4 teams to be at the same venue and try and separate themselves from one another

Would you rather see Brockport and Oneonta just schedule a 3 game series weekend, or RIT play Brockport 3 times.

When the region rankings come out this afternoon i Expect Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT to all be regionally ranked and SJF should be lurking on the outside

John McGraw

Quote from: AlleyCat on May 08, 2008, 10:48:36 AM
Both Brockport and Oneonta have 41 and 40 games played to this date. That means both have played 37 regular season games and 1 post season tournament already. If they play to the final of the ECAC and play over 3 games they cannot be in consideration for the NCAA's. They would violate the games played rule because the ECAC would count towards their regular season. SJF and RIT all OK because their league means nothing anyway. I will say it again Ithaca should be made to compete at this tournament if it has any weight for an NCAA bid. If they are not in it, it should be a nice end of the season tournament for the participants.

If Ithaca is so bad that they don't deserve to be in the NCAA tournament, why have they been ranked second in the regional rankings the first two weeks?

And to my knowledge, Ithaca usually doesn't play in the ECAC tournament. Ever since I can remember, they've closed out the season with games against Montclair State or various other Mid-Atlantic opponents that were headed to the NCAA tournament.

BaseB13

They're ranked 2nd in the region because a) they are Ithaca and they always get a free pass and b) they have a victory over UR in 10 innings.  c) They took 3 of 4 from SJFC d) I can't really figure out what else they have done in region

They're as good as RPI and UR.  Maybe a little better than SJFC.  I believe they lost to Brockport and Oneonta as well.  Fact of the matter is this year Cortland is great and then UR, RPI, Ithaca, SJFC, Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT are all solid clubs.  It's tough to really pick one out of that group that is hands down better than another as they have all beaten and lost to teams in that group.  However, IC gets their free pass.

WrongArm

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 02:26:36 PM
They're ranked 2nd in the region because a) they are Ithaca and they always get a free pass and b) they have a victory over UR in 10 innings.  c) They took 3 of 4 from SJFC d) I can't really figure out what else they have done in region

They're as good as RPI and UR.  Maybe a little better than SJFC.  I believe they lost to Brockport and Oneonta as well.  Fact of the matter is this year Cortland is great and then UR, RPI, Ithaca, SJFC, Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT are all solid clubs.  It's tough to really pick one out of that group that is hands down better than another as they have all beaten and lost to teams in that group.  However, IC gets their free pass.

Against UR, RPI (no game), SJFC, Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT (your list), Ithaca is 9-3. That's not a free pass... that's an earned pass. Maybe you'd like to count Ithaca's extra inning wins as losses.