FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

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hazzben

Quote from: USee on December 02, 2019, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: AO on December 02, 2019, 02:57:04 PM
Quote from: jamtod on December 02, 2019, 02:46:33 PM
Any history of Wheaton vs the MIAC?
I don't recall St Thomas ever facing them.
Bethel beat them 15-10 in the 2010 playoffs.  Wheaton had beaten them in the regular season the previous 2 years.  Wheaton also beat Gustavus in 2004 and 2005.

Wheaton won at home 10-7 in 2008 in a total deluge, Wheaton won @Bethel on the last play of the game in 2009 29-26 and Bethel won @Wheaton in the playoffs in 20010 15-10. The other data point, for what it's worth, is Wheaton beat NCC 42-20 in 2017 when NCC beat St Johns in the playoffs 17-7 that year.

Wheaton lineplay will be very good and physical. They are always very well coached. And tend to be very balanced. Like most years the CCIW champ is right there with the MIAC champ. Which league champ has the edge varies by year. Before Concordia, most viewed SJU as a Semi/Stagg capable team. IMO the confidence of that view has softened a bit, but SJU is still capable of both. Wheaton, on the other hand, started with plenty of street cred but was probably viewed nationally just behind SJU. They seem to have only picked up steam and momentum as the season has progressed.

My lazy comparison would be Wheaton is similar to UST with better game changers and a more explosive offense. UST D was very good, but maybe lacked true elite playmakers of years past. Wheaton's D is littered with these type of guys, especially up front. And on O, their RB is a on the level as Parks though a different kind of back (a little quicker, not as powerful), but probably running behind a better Oline and more explosive passing attack to complement him.

For Wheaton, I think Erdmann is maybe a touch better than Rutter (both are elite talents). SJU WR Corps is more balanced and less dependent on one guy, but SJU doesn't have any one guy quite as dangerous as NCC does. SJU's RB combo of Barber & Trost is really good, legit thunder and lightening, both catch the ball well.

sjusection105

Quote from: hazzben on December 02, 2019, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: USee on December 02, 2019, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: AO on December 02, 2019, 02:57:04 PM
Quote from: jamtod on December 02, 2019, 02:46:33 PM
Any history of Wheaton vs the MIAC?
I don't recall St Thomas ever facing them.
Bethel beat them 15-10 in the 2010 playoffs.  Wheaton had beaten them in the regular season the previous 2 years.  Wheaton also beat Gustavus in 2004 and 2005.

Wheaton won at home 10-7 in 2008 in a total deluge, Wheaton won @Bethel on the last play of the game in 2009 29-26 and Bethel won @Wheaton in the playoffs in 20010 15-10. The other data point, for what it's worth, is Wheaton beat NCC 42-20 in 2017 when NCC beat St Johns in the playoffs 17-7 that year.

Wheaton lineplay will be very good and physical. They are always very well coached. And tend to be very balanced. Like most years the CCIW champ is right there with the MIAC champ. Which league champ has the edge varies by year. Before Concordia, most viewed SJU as a Semi/Stagg capable team. IMO the confidence of that view has softened a bit, but SJU is still capable of both. Wheaton, on the other hand, started with plenty of street cred but was probably viewed nationally just behind SJU. They seem to have only picked up steam and momentum as the season has progressed.

My lazy comparison would be Wheaton is similar to UST with better game changers and a more explosive offense. UST D was very good, but maybe lacked true elite playmakers of years past. Wheaton's D is littered with these type of guys, especially up front. And on O, their RB is a on the level as Parks though a different kind of back (a little quicker, not as powerful), but probably running behind a better Oline and more explosive passing attack to complement him.

For Wheaton, I think Erdmann is maybe a touch better than Rutter (both are elite talents). SJU WR Corps is more balanced and less dependent on one guy, but SJU doesn't have any one guy quite as dangerous as NCC does. SJU's RB combo of Barber & Trost is really good, legit thunder and lightening, both catch the ball well.
So you're saying there's a chance........... ???
As of now they're on DOUBLE SECRET Probation!

USee

#96782
Quote from: hazzben on December 02, 2019, 03:56:06 PM

For Wheaton, I think Erdmann is maybe a touch better than Rutter (both are elite talents).

For the record:

Broc Rutter:
Career (48 games): 959-1,418, (68%) 13,556 yds, 136 TD's and 19 INT's, 176.90 efficiency, 282 pass yds per game
This Year: 252-350 (72%) 3,872 yds, 47 TD's and 3 INT's, 207.53 efficiency, 323 yds per game

Career Record: 42-6, 5-3 NCAA Playoffs, 1-0 HTD vs Erdman, 1-4 vs Wheaton, 0 Gagliardi Trophies

Jackson Erdman:
Career (44 games): 697-1,098 (64%), 10,890 yds, 133 TD's and 26 INT's. 182.03 efficiency, 247.5 yds per game
This Year: 256-399 (64%), 4,291 yds, 41 TD's, 8 INT's, 184.4 efficiency, 357.58 yds per game

Career Record: 38-6, 6-3 NCAA Playoffs, 0-1 vs Rutter, 0-0 vs Wheaton, 1 Gagliardi Trophy!

OzJohnnie

Quote from: USee on December 02, 2019, 05:04:34 PM
Quote from: hazzben on December 02, 2019, 03:56:06 PM

For Wheaton, I think Erdmann is maybe a touch better than Rutter (both are elite talents).

For the record:

Broc Rutter:
Career (48 games): 959-1,418, (68%) 13,556 yds, 136 TD's and 19 INT's, 176.90 efficiency, 282 pass yds per game
This Year: 252-350 (72%) 3,872 yds, 47 TD's and 3 INT's, 207.53 efficiency, 323 yds per game

Career Record: 42-6, 5-3 NCAA Playoffs, 1-0 HTD vs Erdman, 1-4 vs Wheaton

Jackson Erdman:
Career (44 games): 697-1,098 (64%), 10,890 yds, 133 TD's and 26 INT's. 182.03 efficiency, 247.5 yds per game
This Year: 256-399 (64%), 4,291 yds, 41 TD's, 8 INT's, 184.4 efficiency, 357.58 yds per game

Career Record: 38-6, 6-3 NCAA Playoffs, 0-1 vs Rutter, 0-0 vs Wheaton


You conveniently forgot a stat which Erdmann leads.
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USee

Happy to amend to add whatever I forgot. I took these straight off the NCAA site. I made no opinion, just posting the data for people to make their own decisions. Looks like Erdman leads in a bunch of categories and Rutter in several others. I don't see much difference between these two dudes. I'd rather be facing Chapmans' QB this week I know that.

wm4

I've known Rutter since soph year in HS, and I've watched Erdman play for 4 years.  Honestly, I couldn't tell you which one is better.  Rutter was plug and play into NCC's high offense system as a redshirt freshman in 2016, so he's had 4 years of incredibly solid stats.  Erdman has dominated the last two years after maybe being held back on offense his first two years.  Rutter has a super high football IQ, but to me Erdman is a little better in game management.  Rutter can get a little flustered when he's under heavy pressure, but he'll pick you apart when you only come with 4.  Erdman is a slightly more mobile in my view too.  Rutter has a little gun slinger in him (he's a huge Packers fan), while Erdman seems more calculated and precise. 

Fun to watch!

OzJohnnie

Quote from: USee on December 02, 2019, 05:13:13 PM
Happy to amend to add whatever I forgot. I took these straight off the NCAA site. I made no opinion, just posting the data for people to make their own decisions. Looks like Erdman leads in a bunch of categories and Rutter in several others. I don't see much difference between these two dudes. I'd rather be facing Chapmans' QB this week I know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagliardi_Trophy  ;)
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USee

Quote from: OzJohnnie on December 02, 2019, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: USee on December 02, 2019, 05:13:13 PM
Happy to amend to add whatever I forgot. I took these straight off the NCAA site. I made no opinion, just posting the data for people to make their own decisions. Looks like Erdman leads in a bunch of categories and Rutter in several others. I don't see much difference between these two dudes. I'd rather be facing Chapmans' QB this week I know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagliardi_Trophy  ;)

Noted and amended.

MUC57

Quote from: wm4 on December 02, 2019, 05:50:41 PM
I've known Rutter since soph year in HS, and I've watched Erdman play for 4 years.  Honestly, I couldn't tell you which one is better.  Rutter was plug and play into NCC's high offense system as a redshirt freshman in 2016, so he's had 4 years of incredibly solid stats.  Erdman has dominated the last two years after maybe being held back on offense his first two years.  Rutter has a super high football IQ, but to me Erdman is a little better in game management.  Rutter can get a little flustered when he's under heavy pressure, but he'll pick you apart when you only come with 4.  Erdman is a slightly more mobile in my view too.  Rutter has a little gun slinger in him (he's a huge Packers fan), while Erdman seems more calculated and precise. 

Fun to watch!




Very interesting first-hand comments on two great QBs. You have allowed us to get to know them a little better. Well done my friend. And a +K to ya!  ;D
I'm old! I get mixed up and I forget things! Go Everybody! 🏈 ☠

DuffMan

So, we're basing Wheaton's potential performance on comparisons between Erdmann and a QB that Wheaton faced in the regular season?  ::)  Or did Rutter transfer to Wheaton this week?

A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions: 1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022
National Champions: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003

sju56321

That will be a great Stagg Bowl match up-can't wait.
After his second touchdown catch in a record-setting day, St. John's receiver Will Gillach pointed skyward. That, folks, was for former head coach John Gagilardi. The legendary coach of the Johnnies for 60 seasons and 64 in college overall died Sunday. He was 91. His 489 victories are most in college football history in any division.

OzJohnnie

Quote from: DuffMan on December 02, 2019, 06:20:22 PM
So, we're basing Wheaton's potential performance on comparisons between Erdmann and a QB that Wheaton faced in the regular season?  ::)  Or did Rutter transfer to Wheaton this week?

NCC calls this looking ahead.
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MUC57

Quote from: DuffMan on December 02, 2019, 06:20:22 PM
So, we're basing Wheaton's potential performance on comparisons between Erdmann and a QB that Wheaton faced in the regular season?  ::)  Or did Rutter transfer to Wheaton this week?

Wow!

Duffman, you're one of my favorites. But where did all that come from? Don't see a mention of Wheaton in wm4's post. Just a nice post on two super QBs.
Maybe I missed something said somewhere else.
In any case, Go Johnnies! How's that'?  :o  ;D
I'm old! I get mixed up and I forget things! Go Everybody! 🏈 ☠

OzJohnnie

Johnnie
Total Offense: 535
Passing: 371
Rushing: 164
TOP: 29:23

Total Defense: 284
Passing: 197
Rushing: 87

Wheaton
Total Offense: 485
Passing: 261
Rushing: 224
TOP: 31:44

Total Defense: 187
Passing: 130
Rushing: 57


If it's a shootout, the Johnnies win.  If it's a grinding slog then it's the Thunder.

The closest team statistically to the Johnnies that Wheaton has played is NCC.  That game, in the first half of the season, was a near identical statistical outcome 300+ passing and 80 or 90 yards rushing from both teams.

The statistically closest the Johnnies have played to Wheaton is UST, again in the first half of the season.  That game the Jays went 451/107 and the Toms 173/215.

I think AirJohnnie, JohnnieMagic and the fact that Johnnie supporters travel will give them a surprising edge.  I'm going Johnnies 35 (yes, 5 XPs) to 24.  I'm pretty certain the Johnnie D can slow down any offense but one that is a pass crazy speed attack, but I don't think anyone can stop Erdmann (particularly after they slept into CON and suffered the consequences).

Go Johnnies!
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hazzben

Quote from: DuffMan on December 02, 2019, 06:20:22 PM
So, we're basing Wheaton's potential performance on comparisons between Erdmann and a QB that Wheaton faced in the regular season?  ::)  Or did Rutter transfer to Wheaton this week?

No, but we are giving Wheaton a comparable qb to consider. Bethel is the only team to have faced both Rutter and Erdmann in the last two years to my knowledge. They are both elite talents. I assumed some Wheaton fans likely wondered how Erdmann compares to Rutter, a QB they know well. There are a lot of similarities between the two. That's the only point I was making.

And I'm not implying SJU can't/won't win. Just acknowledging the type of challenge they face. Imo, best and most complete teams remaining are SJU, NCC, and Wheaton. UWW has the D but I question their QB play and offense. Same thoughts regarding UMHB.