BB: General NY Region Talk

Started by Bob Maxwell, October 18, 2007, 02:03:28 PM

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Who will represent the New York Region in the Division III Baseball World Series?

SUNY Cortland
7 (43.8%)
Ithaca
0 (0%)
Stevens
1 (6.3%)
Rochester
2 (12.5%)
Non-Region Team
6 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 16

John McGraw

Regional Rankings 5/8

1. Cortland
2. Ithaca
3. Rochester
4. RPI
5. Brockport
6. RIT

BaseB13

Ithaca's free pass comes with their Pool B bid.  Unless those teams (especially RIT and SJFC) blow Ithaca out, Ithaca gets the bid.  Very simple, if Ithaca is so good, they should play in the ECAC and run the table, that would shut everyone up.  Until then, people are going to complain.  If you take the E8 out of the equation then IC is 2 - 2 vs UR, Bport, Oneonta.  Why not have the E8 have a conference tournament even if they don't get a bid, the Landmark Conference does this.  Again that would probably shut people up also if Ithaca won. 

WrongArm

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 03:51:51 PM
 If you take the E8 out of the equation then IC is 2 - 2 vs UR, Bport, Oneonta. 

Stop moving the goal posts. Ithaca is 9-3 against a group you proposed. That doesn't support your argument so you change the group. Sure... let's leave out the E8... choose just three opponents to examine the record. The smaller your sample the more meaningless the results become. Maybe you can distill your argument down to that extra inning game with Rochester... the one Ithaca loses because they only won in extra innings.

BaseB13

WrongArm if IC is so good then why don't they just play in ECAC's and prove it to get their bid?  It's very simple.  I'm not the only one on this board that thinks they get a free pass.  Fact is IC couldn't handle any of the top SUNYAC teams last year as they lost to each of them (2 of them are in ECAC's).  IC has faired no better or worse than any of those teams listed in the region.  The difference is they all have to fight a lot harder for a bid.  One of these years it will bite IC right where it counts.

WrongArm

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 10:02:38 PM
WrongArm if IC is so good then why don't they just play in ECAC's and prove it to get their bid?

I'm sure if you try to answer your own question honestly you can figure this out. And the answer won't have anything to with this board or making people "shut up."

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 10:02:38 PM
The difference is they all have to fight a lot harder for a bid.  One of these years it will bite IC right where it counts.

Ithaca doesn't play in the Liberty League or the SUNYAC. You should realize that this is the source of your displeasure, but it's not likely to change.

By the way, I'd like to see an E8 playoff too... but with only 5 teams I don't know what you'd propose. It might give Fisher or RIT the additional crack at Ithaca you're asking for. RIT put up 1 run in 28 innings against Ithaca this year. I'm sure the'd love to avenge that ass kicking.


BaseB13

The honest answer is Ithaca does not need to play in ECAC's because as long as they win 20 games they get a bid based on their past reputation.  It's why they received a bid in 2005 after a sub-par season when there were other Pool B teams with 30+ wins that did not get a bid.  Now that the field is expanded it's much easier to justify Ithaca receiving a bid based on what they've done this year.  I think the E8 should play a conference tournament regardless of it receivinig a bid. 

I don't want Ithaca in the SUNYAC, they're not a state school.  I don't want Ithaca in the Liberty League either, their academic standards do not come close to the rest of the conference. However, if Ithaca was in either of those conferences they would not be in NCAA's nearly as much as they are.  With as many teams that receive bids now, (which I think is too many), It's not that I dont think Ithaca deserves to be in NCAA's at all.  However,  UR, RPI, Oneonta, and Brockport probably all deserve to be in it just as much.  Unfortunately for them they don't get a free pass.

WrongArm

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 09, 2008, 09:26:29 PM
The honest answer is Ithaca does not need to play in ECAC's because as long as they win 20 games they get a bid based on their past reputation.  It's why they received a bid in 2005 after a sub-par season...

Yawn. Are we back to 20 games again? Get some new material. I'm not going to chase you down that rabbit hole again and waste bandwidth on the board. Let's try to get back on topic... to the remarks you made a few posts back.

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 02:26:36 PM
They're as good as RPI and UR.  Maybe a little better than SJFC. 

Ithaca didn't play RPI but beat Rochester. "... a little better than SJFC?" Look at the E8 standings. Ithaca finished 15-1 and spanked both Fisher (9-7 E8) and RIT (11-5 E8), the ECAC #1 seed. They're not a little better, they're a lot better and they proved it in 4-games series on the field.

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 09, 2008, 09:26:29 PM
I don't want Ithaca in the SUNYAC, they're not a state school. 

Duh! But you're offering to schedule a few more SUNYAC games for Ithaca?

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 09, 2008, 09:26:29 PM
I don't want Ithaca in the Liberty League either, their academic standards do not come close to the rest of the conference.

Another big yawn. I think this is the third time you've trotted this one out. It's still a lame comment, but I note your intention.

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 09, 2008, 09:26:29 PM
... if Ithaca was in either of those conferences they would not be in NCAA's nearly as much as they are. 

Make up your mind... in or out?

I did a quick check of Ithaca's record and it looks like they are 20-4 in the region and as John said above, ranked #2 in the region. Demanding that they play in the ECAC tournament to shut you up, er... "everyone" up, is just ridiculous.

John McGraw

ECAC Upstate NY Tournament

http://www.oneonta.edu/academics/athletics/baseball/ECAC/ECAC2008.html

Oswego 5 RIT 4 (11)
Brockport 4 Oneonta 3

Oneonta vs. RIT, Brockport vs. Oswego

The tournament wraps up tomorrow over at Red Dragon Field.

scuba16

As much as I have a general disdain for IC, the thought of their regional ranking being questioned is laughable.
-They played as tough an out of region schedule as anybody in the country, with the exception of 5-10 other teams. (I know that means nothing on paper when it comes to regional bids)
-They played and beat everyone in NY except Cortland, lost 9-5(Cortland is head and shoulders above everyone in the NY region anyway) and they hustle and play baseball hard, the right way!
-IC is deservedly a regional team this yr and until somebody else wins the E8 and/or IC doesn't win 20 in region games, they will continue to play and deserve to play in the NY regional!
-They are 20-4 vs NY region comp and you want to see them sidestepped in Pool B, C for RIT, UofR or SJF????? In region teams they beat or hold winning records against?
I think IC should play in some type of post season tournament but NCAA criterion doesn't require it so you Logic is not computing!
In sports it's not how you start, its how you finish!

BaseB13

Wrongarm you're missing the point, i'm not talking about  only this year, i'm talking about every year.  (See 2005).  With the massive NCAA field this year I am not saying IC does not deserve to be in it at all.  I said Ithaca gets a free pass.  This is where some of you have trouble with reading comprehension.  Last time I checked IC had losses to 60% of the teams in ECAC's.  So it's not unfathomable to think IC could have issues in ECAC's.  Now, unfortunately the system is set up that it allows the Pool B teams to do this.  You cant necessarily blame IC for not participating in ECAC's because clearly they're aware of the fact that they don't need to because of their reputation.  (And by the way, I have always said IC is a very good program so this isn't IC bashing)  I do feel this year that Oneonta, Brockport, UR and RPI are all in the same league as Ithaca.  E8 should just play a conference tournament with the top 4 teams to declare a conference champion.  It would allow all of the teams to get extra games in over their 40 game schedule and it would give the teams tournament experience for when they play in regionals.  And if IC won the tournament every year, no one could say IC received a free pass with their Pool B bid.

scuba16

#160
With RIT, Brockport and Oneonta all drop ECAC games, this probably eliminates all from a possible Pool C bid.
RPI will win most likely win the LL, so they will get a Pool A and that leaves U of R as the only other possible Pool C as I see it.
I think U of R's only shot is a 8 team NY regional, if there is only a 6 teamer, U of R is out.
Looks like for sure 6 teamer:
1. Cortland State (A) Sunyac
2. Ithaca (B) E8
3. RPI (A) LL
4. Keystone (A) NEAC
5. Farmingdale (A) Skyline
6. Out of Region


8 Teamer:
1. Cortland State (A) Sunyac
2. Ithaca (B) E8
3. RPI (A) LL
4. Keystone (A) NEAC
5. Farmingdale (A) Skyline
6. Out of Region
7. U of R (C) or Out of Region
8. Out of Region

I am the 1st guy pulling for NY teams but you got to win when it counts if your RIT, Brockport, Oneonta, U of R or SJF. As of right now, none of those teams have "taken the bulls by the horns" and got it done at the end, WHEN IT COUNTS MOST!
In sports it's not how you start, its how you finish!

John McGraw

#161
Heck of a season by Rochester, though I'm not sure it'll be enough to get into the NCAA tournament as an at-large selection. I like RPI in the title round Sunday. They have the most pitching left and I think SLU will be out of gas. It's not the same Larries that hammered RPI 12-4 in Auburn a few years ago.

That being said,

1. Cortland
2. Ithaca
3. RPI
4. Penn State Behrend
5. Keystone
6. Farmingdale St.

If Penn State Behrend loses to Pitt-Bradford, then the Panthers would take their slot. Keystone may then go to the Mid-Atlantic regional and a stronger team would come to New York like a Montclair State, Rowan or TCNJ. Amherst/Williams had a chance but it's the year of the Clamorin' Clucks in the NESCAC.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: BaseB13 on May 10, 2008, 10:13:09 PM
Wrongarm you're missing the point, i'm not talking about  only this year, i'm talking about every year.  (See 2005).

Seems kind of silly to argue 2005 when we're hours away from having the 2008 field announced.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

BaseB13

Based on D3's budget issues i'd be incredibly surprised if NY was not an 8 team region.  The west is guaranteed to be 6 teams.   It's too convenient for the NCAA to make NY an 8 team region and ship other teams in.  I think this gives UR a chance.  Scuba is right, a lot of NY teams had the opportunity to really take hold solidify a bid and they didn't get it done.  I agree with Scubas 8 team region list as well except that  I think the winner of the Penn State Behrend/Pitt Bradford game will also be in the NY region.  That would leave room for either 2 out of region teams or UR and one out of region team.  Based on cost efficiency it makes sense NY gets 8 teams.   

BoomerIL

scuba16....

Rochester having lost yesterday to St. Lawrence may have solidified Rochesters chances at not getting a Pool C bid, I don't know.  I do know that as of last night in speaking with my son at UR, I will be on campus tomorrow afternoon helping him clean out his dorm room.

Unless some decision is made today by the NCAA, and they are waiting for the outcome of todays Liberty League Championship, I will be at UR tomorrow getting my son.  The die may have been already cast!!
"You observe alot by watching"  -  Yogi Berra