MIAA

Started by d3fan1, June 11, 2009, 11:42:22 AM

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Mr.Right

That is why I prefaced  the statement with "I do not know much about Hope" and "I could be wrong". Also, not sure how u come to all these crazy conclusions from my one sentence. Schools can be defined by 1 sport even if they are very good in another. Take Messiah. They are fantastic in Field Hockey but I would guess they are known as a Soccer school. Whether you like it or agree with it it happens all the time

TyWebb

One thing that jumped out at me when I looked at Hope's roster was they only graduated one senior. Brandt will certainly have a lot of experience back to build on.

blooter442

Quote from: Mr.Right on March 21, 2018, 04:39:35 PM
That is why I prefaced  the statement with "I do not know much about Hope" and "I could be wrong". Also, not sure how u come to all these crazy conclusions from my one sentence. Schools can be defined by 1 sport even if they are very good in another. Take Messiah. They are fantastic in Field Hockey but I would guess they are known as a Soccer school. Whether you like it or agree with it it happens all the time

Yeah I didn't see anything unreasonable with Mr.Right saying that he thought Hope to be "more of a basketball school" based on his own knowledge (and admitting that he may well be wrong). It is true that success in one sport does not preclude success in others, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that a given school which is a powerhouse in a certain sport is more of an (X sport) school (than a Y sport school).

Gregory Sager

All I'm saying is that the whole "basketball school" or "football school" or "soccer school" thing can be a pretty superficial way of summing up a school's sports persona. Sometimes it's accurate, but a lot of times it isn't.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Hopkins92

I guess I was struck by the assumption (projection) about his motives for moving from one situation to another. Seems like the more "interesting" hot take of the original post in this sub-thread.

Is there some back story on Brandt that would lead to this fairly negative view of his motivations/aspirations?

jknezek

#305
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 22, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
I guess I was struck by the assumption (projection) about his motives for moving from one situation to another. Seems like the more "interesting" hot take of the original post in this sub-thread.

Is there some back story on Brandt that would lead to this fairly negative view of his motivations/aspirations?

Frankly, Brandt's dismissal from the Riverhounds was odd to say the least. The guy improved the Riverhounds record in each of his 3 seasons and was ultimately dismissed because he didn't have a required A Level coaching license. Generally it seems the Riverhounds were willing to bring him back, but US Soccer prevented it from happening. I'm unclear on why Brandt couldn't or didn't get his A license and then his pro license. I know US Soccer has had some moving goalposts for these licenses over the years and they are expensive and time consuming to achieve, but he had to know he needed the license to coach at the USL Level and had the better part of 3 seasons to try and achieve it.

From what I understand it takes about 18 months to go from B to A if you can get all the classes. I don't think he had a C license, so that would have tacked on another 12 months since he doesn't qualify for the waiver. He either ran out of time, or just didn't get it done.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 22, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
I guess I was struck by the assumption (projection) about his motives for moving from one situation to another. Seems like the more "interesting" hot take of the original post in this sub-thread.

Is there some back story on Brandt that would lead to this fairly negative view of his motivations/aspirations?

I was wondering about that myself, since the highly pejorative words "massive ego" obviously connote some sort of a back story.

Quote from: jknezek on March 22, 2018, 12:43:23 PMFrankly, Brandt's dismissal from the Riverhounds was odd to say the least. The guy improved the Riverhounds record in each of his 3 seasons and was ultimately dismissed because he didn't have a required A Level coaching license. Generally it seems the Riverhounds were willing to bring him back, but US Soccer prevented it from happening. I'm unclear on why Brandt couldn't or didn't get his A license and then his pro license. I know US Soccer has had some moving goalposts for these licenses over the years and they are expensive and time consuming to achieve, but he had to know he needed the license to coach at the USL Level and had the better part of 3 seasons to try and achieve it.

From what I understand it takes about 18 months to go from B to A if you can get all the classes. I don't think he had a C license, so that would have tacked on another 12 months since he doesn't qualify for the waiver. He either ran out of time, or just didn't get it done.

That does seem odd. I'm guessing that there must be some sort of mitigating circumstances involved, since it seems unlikely that Hope would hire someone who has demonstrated the sort of administrative negligence indicated by someone not fulfilling the completion of his job requirements in spite of a three-year grace period to get it done. I'm betting that there's a plausible explanation in there somewhere.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

jknezek

#307
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2018, 02:08:04 PM

That does seem odd. I'm guessing that there must be some sort of mitigating circumstances involved, since it seems unlikely that Hope would hire someone who has demonstrated the sort of administrative negligence indicated by someone not fulfilling the completion of his job requirements in spite of a three-year grace period to get it done. I'm betting that there's a plausible explanation in there somewhere.

Actually I very much doubt Hope cares. Dave Brandt can coach. The piece of paper US Soccer demands has no relevance to the NCAA. I'm sure Brandt has some reason he didn't get it, but he doesn't need it to coach NCAA soccer at any level. He won more than a few DIII titles without it, he won at Navy without it, and he'll likely win at Hope without it. Frankly, I think he eventually would have won at the Riverhounds without it, although any USL program without a MLS tie is facing an uphill battle these days.

I took the lowest level of the US Soccer licensing program just a few weeks ago to give me some more tools to coach my twin boys' 5/6 year old team. As online courses go, it was really good and I took a lot from it. I highly recommend it for volunteer coaches everywhere to add to your toolbox. I'll take more if my boys stick with soccer and be glad that they are available. That being said, the paper doesn't make the coach any more than a business degree makes a successful CEO. Brandt can coach whether US Soccer says he can or not. Hope was smart enough to realize they can be a whopping big beneficiary to that...

D3soccerwatcher

Quote from: jknezek on March 22, 2018, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 22, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
I guess I was struck by the assumption (projection) about his motives for moving from one situation to another. Seems like the more "interesting" hot take of the original post in this sub-thread.

Is there some back story on Brandt that would lead to this fairly negative view of his motivations/aspirations?

Frankly, Brandt's dismissal from the Riverhounds was odd to say the least. The guy improved the Riverhounds record in each of his 3 seasons and was ultimately dismissed because he didn't have a required A Level coaching license. Generally it seems the Riverhounds were willing to bring him back, but US Soccer prevented it from happening. I'm unclear on why Brandt couldn't or didn't get his A license and then his pro license. I know US Soccer has had some moving goalposts for these licenses over the years and they are expensive and time consuming to achieve, but he had to know he needed the license to coach at the USL Level and had the better part of 3 seasons to try and achieve it.

From what I understand it takes about 18 months to go from B to A if you can get all the classes. I don't think he had a C license, so that would have tacked on another 12 months since he doesn't qualify for the waiver. He either ran out of time, or just didn't get it done.

Brandt was at the Riverhounds from May 2016 to Nov 2017.  Just under 18 months.  One and half seasons.  NOT 3 SEASONS.  So time to get the licenses once it was actually mandated by the league must of been the significant factor.  Particularly since he improved the team so much.

D3soccerwatcher

Quote from: Mr.Right on March 20, 2018, 04:19:37 PM
Quote from: rudy on March 19, 2018, 08:04:24 PM
Quote from: sac on March 19, 2018, 06:50:54 PM
Hope made a very interesting hire today.

http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/msoc/2018-19/releases/20180319rn17yq

Indeed.  Coach Brandt I'm sure will bring much success at Hope.


Very interesting. I knew when he left Navy for the USL it was a disastrous move and I said as much on these boards when he made the move. Just crazy. He left one of the safer jobs in D1 with one of the best benefit packages and solid salaries in the county straight up minus camps. For what? Ego. That's all it was about. I will say after a phenomenal career at Messiah it was an excellent time to go to Navy in 2008. I think that was the year. I mean he needed a new challenge and had accomplished everything and more at Messiah. It was time to go and he went for the perfect gig at Navy. I am guessing he could have gone earlier but was picky about the D1 situation and rightly so as you do not want to jump to D1 for the sake of jumping because there are plenty of BAD D1 situations so you do need to be careful. That is all fine and good but I have no idea what he was thinking to leave Navy for such an unstable situation in the USL. My guess is it was his massive ego. It possibly could of been he was frustrated at not winning at Navy like when he was at Messiah but I doubt it because he had to know going in he could only get Navy so far until they were just outclassed by ACC schools or Big 10 schools in the NCAA's. Honestly, I was quite unimpressed with the job he did at Navy as it was rather average except for a Patriot League title or 2. His results at Pittsburgh speak for themselves and this new gig will be an interesting challenge. I honestly do not know much about Hope but I believe they are more of a basketball school but I could be wrong. Either way they have not been much if a factor in D3 Mens Soccer so this will be a total rebuild. Now if he can start competing with Calvin in 3-5 years I will be quite impressed. Let's see what happens. My guess is after a few years he will be winning games, playing an attractive style and will be a thorn in Calvin's side but I do not think they will be a national contender year in and year out. You can bet I will be following

As for the over/under on Hope becoming competitive with Calvin in 3-5 years...I'll take the under.

jknezek

Huh. I thought he was there 2.5 seasons not 1.5. That certainly explains it if they hired him without him having at least a "C".  I'd have to research when the requirements changed but that was a very odd hire if they went in knowing he didn't have enough time to get the proper license. If the rules changed after the hire, that's pretty crappy on US Soccer's side.

jknezek

#311
So this is an even sadder story for Dave Brandt than you'd think. The reason he all of a sudden needed an A license is because the USL was promoted to Division 2 status in our professional soccer pyramid. When USL was the third division, an A license was required within 2 years of hiring as with any pro team, but it's fairly easy to get a waiver according to an article I found. According to the article, US Soccer is lenient at that level because there are so few coaches with an A license in this country, let alone with the experience to be hired as a coach. Presumably that will change with time, but US Soccer doesn't seem consistent about much.

So back to the story, Brandt was hired during the 2016 season. US Soccer moved USL up provisionally for the 2017 season as it became clear NASL was in dire financial straights and MLS was tying itself to USL, and USL was given 2 years to become compliant with second tier standards. Apparently in the second tier, waivers aren't easily found unless you have a darn good reason, like you are within a season of achieving the required license. Makes a lot more sense as there are only the 32 or so USL teams plus the 20 (maybe, I can't keep track given the rapid expansion) MLS teams. Seems like there shouldn't be a problem finding 50 or 60 A licensed coaches as opposed to adding in the third tier teams. Anyway, coaching license compliance was required of USL prior to the start of the 2018 season.

So Brandt had one year to get a license you can't possibly get in one year and no extension was granted, so he must not have gotten very close. Whether he was even working toward it I have no idea. But even with a C license, presumably as high as you can get in 12 months without a waiver you can get by having played a certain number of years in a D1 Pro League somewhere in the world or spent a certain amount of time with the USMNT or USWMNT, you are at least 18 months away from being able to get an A license. It sounds like the Riverhounds at least tried to get some kind of waiver for him before they parted ways.

Anyway, in the end, he needed an A license when he was hired with the Riverhounds but apparently that was a requirement that was easily ignored at that level and no one gave it much thought. When the level changed, the requirement was no longer ignored and Brandt couldn't stay. That's a tough way to lose a job.

Flying Weasel

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2018, 02:08:04 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on March 22, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
I guess I was struck by the assumption (projection) about his motives for moving from one situation to another. Seems like the more "interesting" hot take of the original post in this sub-thread.

Is there some back story on Brandt that would lead to this fairly negative view of his motivations/aspirations?

I was wondering about that myself, since the highly pejorative words "massive ego" obviously connote some sort of a back story.

Well, going back many years Mr. Right/LaPaz has a consistent track record of never missing an opportunity to be critical of and/or speak negatively about Coach Brandt which does suggest there's some (personal?) back story, but he has never shared one.  Maybe doing so would risk revealing his identity.  If there isn't a back story, the Brandt-bashing is quite perplexing.

Mr.Right

Nope never met the guy. Nothing to do with my identity. I do not take things out on people for personal reasons either. That is low blow stuff and it is not my style. Actually, I do not really think my statement was that vicious at all. I am not talking about the character of the man as a human being. All I said was that I have heard from multiple sources that he has or had a massive ego. Thought he was god's gift to coaching and so when a coach starts struggling and not winning like he used to I just find it easy to point out. That's it. Nothing else.

I actually complimented him more than I disparaged him in my statement. I know he is a fantastic coach, knows what he is doing(unlike some coaches), plays the right way(futbol), great tactician and his record at Messiah is AMAZING. I brought most if not all of that up in my statement. I just felt that it was a rather average(for him) performance at Navy and frankly a horrific record in the USL. However, that was not even my point to begin with. I was most critical of his move from Navy to such an unstable situation at Pittsburgh. That's all and since I have not heard from anyone a solid reason for making that jump I have to assume that it was because of ego. I understand coaches want to coach the best players and certainly the USL can offer that or maybe he was sick of the college game but that does not stick for me because like Cook at Dartmouth who went to the Union and is now back at Penn State, Brandt finds himself right back in the college game. So why make the move in the first place? 

Flying Weasel

So, Mr. Right, you're saying you are merely an unbiased, neutral observer doing us all a service by bringing to light the insight gained from your sources that can help us all understand the reasons and motives for Coach Brandt's career moves? I guess I'm just surprised with how you present your assumptions/speculations/opinions--strongly, seemingly with conviction--if they are primarily based on what you heard from sources, not from any first-hand, personal experience with Brandt.

Hey, I don't know Coach Brandt. Not sure I met him more than two times, and never had a conversation with him. So I can't personally vouch for him. And since his record speaks for itself, I've never felt the need to defend him (just as I don't now). For all I know, maybe there's some truth to what you have assumed/speculated about him. I'd have no way to disprove it. But neither have I been given any solid reason to believe what you suggest either.

You're entitled to your assumptions and opinions, but your criticisms now and in the past seem to come form a narrow perspective, colored through the lense of your sources' opinions. Maybe you have thought this through more than you have let on and have genuinely considered all the other possibilities, but your posts certainly suggest a predisposition to one conclusion. Are you really saying you cannot fathom any other reasons for Brandt to have left Navy to coach the Riverhounds besides ego? Come on. Is ego the only reason you can think of for someone (in any vocation, not just coaching) to want to move to a different employer, or to a different or higher position?  Wanting a new challenge or a different challenge isn't always about ego. What are the potential reasons any one of us may seek a promotion, look for a new job, make a move from between the private sector, a governement job, or self-employment, etc.? Drive and determination isn't always about ego. Wanting to test yourself and see what you are capable of is not always about ego. (In fact, it can sometimes require just the opposite: a measure of humility, a willingness to be vulnerable and risk failure.)

And it's very convenient to assume "it was becasue of ego" "since I have not heard from anyone a solid reason for making that jump." You present your asusmption to a group of people that very likely does not include anyone who would be in-the-know (you may be well connected, but many of us are just average Joe's), and then conclude your assumption is correct because no one chooses to make (counter-)assumptions about things they do not know. I could suggest it was simply a desire/goal to test himself in professional soccer before passively spending his entire career in collegiate soccer and see if he liked it or not and see if the pro environment suited him or not, and even though he felt he still had work to do at Navy and wasn't really ready to leave quite yet, the opportunity was too good (geographically close to home, reasonable level for a first venture into pro ball, etc.) to not go for it rather than take a chance that a similar opportunity would await a couple years down the road. But I. Don't. Know. And don't suppose to. And what you might consider a "solid reason", might differ from what I or someone else or Brandt (you and I don't know his career and life objectives) might consider a solid reason.

And I'm sure Brandt didn't go to the Riverhounds thinking he'd be back coaching in D-III 1-1/2 years later, so I hardly understand how the fact that that has now happened has any bearing on the soundness of his decision (at the time) to leave Navy for Pittsburgh. I guess I never should have moved to Brazil (and all the uncertainty that came with that) since I ended up moving back to the States a few years later with some things having not worked out as I had hoped. Would you say the same thing about me that you are saying about Brandt: why did you ever move to Brazil in the first place?  Don't leave a safe, cushy situation. Don't broaden your horizons. Don't seek to stretch yourself. Don't risk failure. Stick to what you know. Take the sure thing. Play it safe. If you don't know if (and how) it's going to work out, it's better not to try at all. Live with the "What if's" rather than take a chance.

Ohh, and if suggesting that someone has a massive ego, and has made a stupid career move because of said ego, and thinks he's God's gift to coaching is not talking about his character, then what the heck is it talking about?

It doesn't really matter to me why Coach Brandt made the career moves he made.  My guess is that a man with the success he had must struggle with keeping his ego in check.  But life is rarely black and white and his reasons and motives were probably varied and not purely one thing or another.  I'm just saying that if someone feels the need to speculate on Brandt's motives for his career moves, there's certainly other ways to approach it than Mr. Right has, and, with all due respect to Mr. Right's wealth of knowledge and insight, there's certainly other other possibilities to consider (and "conclusions" to reach) than what Mr. Right presents.