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Division III football (Post Patterns) => Region 2 football (New York and Pennsylvania-ish) => Topic started by: admin on August 16, 2005, 05:14:07 AM

Title: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: admin on August 16, 2005, 05:14:07 AM
This is the new home of PAC discussion. Welcome aboard, everyone.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on August 16, 2005, 09:13:24 AM
OSB THIS!

Welcome to the new house, PAC posters.

Let the fun begin!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on August 16, 2005, 09:18:58 AM
I would like to hear thoughts on this years offenses that are returning.  Who will be the best passing offense, best running?? Who has the most returning starters?? I know Thiel has 10 of 11 offensive returning but not sure about the other schools
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on August 16, 2005, 03:17:57 PM
Quote from: bobgregg on August 16, 2005, 09:13:24 AM
OSB THIS!

Well Bob, I hate to say it, but there is "one star" next to your ID.   :o  That will change as soon as Pat gets around to taking care of the post counts. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OSUChemDork on August 16, 2005, 05:50:17 PM
I noticed that SI tried to provide some coverage on D3 football.  1/3 a page is all it got...but so did DI-A and DII, so we cannot complain.  W&J made SI's preseason top 10, I wonder if they consulted any of the D3 gurus who seem to know more about small college football than some of the sportscasters that work for ESPN, ABC, etc know about sports in general.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 16, 2005, 06:02:04 PM
No, they didn't.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: slamdaddy on August 17, 2005, 11:12:17 PM
The best offense without a doubt has to be W&J. Edwards and Krepps are unbelieveable and the two kids taht transferred in are outstanding....is there anyone in the conference that matches up with these guys. I was at the Thiel game last year and thought that the T-Cats played well except they were in a 14-0 hole from 2 blocked punts....
My question is can W&J take it to the next level? What is to come from Westminnie this year as well? Would love to hear some responses.....including you OSUChemDork?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 18, 2005, 05:52:55 PM
I think that Thiel will have the most experience on offense coming back. Although W&J has Krepps and Edwards. Thiel has Satterfield and Chambers. It will be fun to see both duos in action this season. Thiel's offensive line should be strong besides the departure of their 4 year starting center and big Tight end. I think the way they will be able to run the ball will make Chambers that much more of a weapon. I am not sure about W&J's line, but I think it will come down to Thiel and W&J for the best offense in the PAC.......Westminster's Offense was rather bad except for Frolich last year. If I remember correctly they do not have much coming back. Waynesburg could be okay, but need to fill in some key positions. Thomas More I am not sure of, Bethany has some young guns but not enough yet, Grove City... well they still run the stupid Wing T need I say more?

We are getting closer to kickoff!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: slamdaddy on August 22, 2005, 07:09:41 PM
Anyone heard any scoop from the PAC Camps this spring???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OSUChemDork on August 24, 2005, 01:30:54 PM
Well there Slamdaddy,
Nothing like being called out...and then not being around to be called out.  As for what I think will happen in PAC this year, I agree that Edwards to Krepps will be a commonly heard duo on Saturdays for the Prez, and that Thiel has a strong returning class.  I am a little apprehensive about the Titans having a lot this year...their top offensive weapons, save QB, have graduated...and I don't know if the return of Bonenberger is enough to spark the D...especially since the younger Froelich acted like an idiot and is no longer with the Titans.  I am also enxious to see how they respond to Jeff Hand.  No word out of PAC camps...I was hoping that you would have something for me, but you are letting me down, Slammer.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on August 25, 2005, 03:28:44 PM
i don't read this board and don't have time to, but who does w&j scrimmage today?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on August 25, 2005, 03:43:11 PM
Quote from: Outsider14 on August 25, 2005, 03:28:44 PM
i don't read this board and don't have time to, but who does w&j scrimmage today?

Mount Union at 3 pm I believe.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on August 26, 2005, 12:41:16 PM
(yaaawwwwwwnnnnnn)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on August 27, 2005, 05:04:19 PM
This board just isn't as amusing as it was a few years ago when you had all of those W&J alums ranting on like they were the next Eminem.  I miss those guys! ::)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 27, 2005, 05:39:19 PM
Alums? That implies they weren't still students. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 28, 2005, 01:30:17 PM
What game will be the best game between PAC foes this year????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: K-Mack on August 29, 2005, 01:14:00 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on August 25, 2005, 03:28:44 PM
i don't read this board and don't have time to, but who does w&j scrimmage today?

Way to make friends.

Although you were honest, and got your answer.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OSUChemDork on August 29, 2005, 09:55:09 AM
True this board is a lot more boring now that many of the W&J student-athletes...alums do not grace us with their pontifications.  I do not know if there is a lot of animosity because of Banny getting the axe the way he did or what it is.  What do we expect out of the teams in the PresAC this week, with all 6 teams playing this week?  Anyone planning on making it to any of the games?  I may try to make it to the Denison-Waynesburg game, as it is fairly close to Columbus...if anyone is planning to make it there...let me know.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on August 29, 2005, 12:29:16 PM
QuoteAlums? That implies they weren't still students.

Pat, you are right.  I guess I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on August 29, 2005, 12:33:45 PM
OSU,  what do you expect from Westminster this year?  They have a pretty tough game to start with ONU.  I would expect the Polar Bears to roll.  Could be a rough way to begin the Hand Era at Westminster.  I have hopes that he can turn this thing around and bring back Westminster football to the proud tradition it was before they made the mistake of going DII!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on August 30, 2005, 09:29:14 PM
Anyone know what type of O/D Waynesburg will be running this year?

I heard the new HC was a spread guy on offense, will he revamp WC's power oriented scheme or tailor his offensive system to suit his personnel?

Defensively, WC seemed to be 8-9 man fronts & stop the run at all costs. Will they be this bold or play a more conservative scheme?

???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OSUChemDork on August 31, 2005, 01:25:20 PM
ScotsFan,

I am not certain what to expect from the Titans this year.  Although, I have a feeling that it will be more than rebuilding year for the Titans.  With the loss of a good RB and a new coach.  I think a rocky start to the Hand era is inevitable...my question is will it last all season?  This weekend when ONU comes to New Wilmington could be the tip of the iceberg.  We'll have to see how the boys taken to Hand and his staff.  If I get to the Waynesburg game this weekend, I will have an answer for you pilskin.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fuh_sheezy on August 31, 2005, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: OSUChemDork on August 29, 2005, 09:55:09 AM
True this board is a lot more boring now that many of the W&J student-athletes...alums do not grace us with their pontifications.  I do not know if there is a lot of animosity because of Banny getting the axe the way he did or what it is. 

Wait for it...
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv256%2Fvic047%2Fgoon1.gif&hash=387606089fe171f2250ed14afcb8d7a5d2a3ac46)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Steve Allen on August 31, 2005, 08:04:50 PM
Quote from: OSUChemDork on August 29, 2005, 09:55:09 AM
True this board is a lot more boring now that many of the W&J student-athletes...alums do not grace us with their pontifications.  I do not know if there is a lot of animosity because of Banny getting the axe the way he did or what it is.  What do we expect out of the teams in the PresAC this week, with all 6 teams playing this week?  Anyone planning on making it to any of the games?  I may try to make it to the Denison-Waynesburg game, as it is fairly close to Columbus...if anyone is planning to make it there...let me know.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on August 31, 2005, 09:47:46 PM
Siriani put the Kaibosh on his players and coaches from posting on this forum (so it has been said).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 31, 2005, 10:00:00 PM
That's good, because I understand it was decidedly not that way under the previous regime.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fuh_sheezy on August 31, 2005, 10:32:13 PM
Quote from: spliskin on August 31, 2005, 09:47:46 PM
Siriani put the Kaibosh on his players and coaches from posting on this forum (so it has been said).

Thank God.

Now that you've got the Father(Sirianni), the Son(Edwards) and the holy Ghost(Krepps!) at the helm of the Roman empire of D3 football, we wouldn't want any students, student-athletes, haters, scrimps, busters, hustlers, Petersons, Dunbars, dunks, big kittys, smell-reedys, fat ginas, e-trains, chappys,  stinkers, uncle damons,  peter-nuts, big nuts, monkey nuts, dr. nates, dr. jim nosewaters, reverend runs, rich stabbones, jar jar binks, keri beans, strarinkas, ferangas, keringkas, OR coaches posting here talking all kinds of smack.

I have to give it to the guy, Sirianni had his haters since he had to fill Banny's massive bananna hammock. He's coming through in flying colors in that lipstick party of a division, though. We need him. Hell, I need him. I'm a mess without him. I miss him so damn much. I miss being with him. I miss being near him! I miss his laugh! I miss - I miss his scent. I miss his musk. When this all gets sorted out, I think him and me should get an apartment together.

Me? I made it out alive to tell the tale. I'm like the old guy, Lou, in Major League standing naked in the middle of the locker room. Except, this is the locker room called life.

Moose, Big Cat, Lesako twins where you at. Stay tuned for and extra special "Where are They Now"[/b][/i]...

and be sure not to miss, Behind the Blow: A Luke Streetcar Named Desire[/i]
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 31, 2005, 11:23:49 PM
That avatar of yours is way too distracting. Any chance you could pick another?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fuh_sheezy on September 01, 2005, 08:42:43 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 31, 2005, 11:23:49 PM
That avatar of yours is way too distracting. Any chance you could pick another?

of course(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv256%2Fvic047%2Fwee.gif&hash=82c12017199dfc196b75ab826f69708ca8e2e705)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on September 04, 2005, 10:50:49 PM
All "opening day" results have been in for over 24 hours and there are no posters on this site? No braggards, no sh#t-talkers, no arm chair QB's with in depth analysis?

Did Fuh_sheezy scare everyone away with his homosexual overtones or this board dead?

Congrats to the Prez (no surprise) & the Bison (big surprise), but it looks like the jackets, titans, saints & wolverines have a lot of work to do this week

ps: you can move my "Karma" to (-2) for the homosexual comment.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 05, 2005, 01:42:46 PM
Tough week for the Saints...they will go back to work for Bethany though.

Anyone have any analysis of the Bison?  Just wanting to know what I should expect...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: professor on September 06, 2005, 04:15:17 PM
This is a test
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 06, 2005, 07:39:44 PM
Bethany will 3 step and run the ball at you a little  bit. That is what they did last year. However, I am unsure of what they will do this year. They had a rotation of QB's last year who seemed to find the other team alot last year. They had a decent size frosh running back who ran hard when he was not hurt. There defense had a few bright spots but was dim for the most part. I did not see the 1st game, but I am glad they won and hope to see them challenge in the PAC this year. However I think they are still a few years away.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 07, 2005, 07:56:38 AM
Thanks PittTBCW
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 08, 2005, 10:27:30 PM
No Problem Saintsfan!!

Any predictions for this Saturday involving PAC foes????


Here are mine!!!


W&J over Hanover
Thiel over OWU
Thomas More over Bethany
Car. Mellon over GC
Alleg. over Westmin


Glad to see PAC play begins in week #2!!!

Good Luck to all PAC teams this week

Hopefully I can make one of the games this week
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 10, 2005, 05:04:46 PM
Impressive showing for W&J against Hanover today.  I left while it was 49-6 Presidents, but  listened to the rest on the way home. 

W&J set records in total offense and rushing  totals, but the thing I was most impressed with was the team defensively.  They clamped down a lot better and quicker than games I watched last year against  much lesser competition.

That said, I still don't know what Hanover presents as an opponent.  They used to be quite competitive, but that was far from the case today.  I have been critical of the defensive front in the past, but they should roll with them through their schedule. 

The only thing standing in front of this team is their own complacency from a regular season standpoint.  I still don't think they have the 'big uglies' to advance deep into the D3 playoffs without  the drubbing they took last year, but it's only September.  A lot can happen. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2005, 09:23:37 AM
Record-setting offensive performance Saturday, then Team of the Week honors on Tuesday...

Congrats to the Presidents Offensive Line.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: professor on September 14, 2005, 04:05:55 PM
You would think with W&J playing Allegheny (a former PAC member and a team that usually give the President fits), this week, there would be a little more discussion on this board. A 56-20 rout of Hanover and a similar schlacking of Tri-State does not guarantee an easy time against the Gators. W&J's defense did an awful lot of bending (440 yards in passing) it didn't break. I am sure Allegheny paid notice to that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 14, 2005, 08:57:13 PM
With all due respect professor, those stats are misleading on several different levels.  Statistics are like the bible:  You can use it to support any argument you wish. 

First of all, Hanover runs a spread/trips receiver offense (it may have a fancier name, but in essence, that's what it is) that is based solely on the pass.  Hanover I believe had only 30 yards rushing.

Secondly, the score was 35-0 W&J at halftime, and most of the game was Hanover trying to get something....anything...going.  They had 66 pass attempts, and the defensive play from the Presidents in the second half seemed more content on keeping plays in front of them, and the clock running. 

Running the ball and controlling the clock is the way to play with W&J in my opinion, and having the talent up front to do it offensively, while keeping their offensive on the sidelines.  Allegheny is 0-2, and although they will present more of a challenge than Hanover in my opinion and has a number of WPIAL kids on their roster (possibly some extra incentive for some kids 'coming home'), it will be an uphill climb for the Gators Saturday night.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: professor on September 15, 2005, 09:53:20 AM
All valid points, burghboy. Just trying to stir some chatter. Would like to see the PAC pages reflect double digits, like most of the other boards
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 15, 2005, 11:23:33 AM
If you check out the NCAC pick 'em board you will see that the spread is substantial at -24.5 for the Allegheny and W&J game.  I haven't tallied it up but the spread seems to be generating a pretty even split in picks over there - and I think that there are a number of fans there who see the NCAC through rose colored glasses.   Judging from Gheny's performance so far, I don't see them keeping it close.  Maybe they can cover the spread if W&J puts the game away early and gives up scores in exchange for clock time as seems to be the case with the Hanover game. 

Any thoughts on the other games?

I see it as:
Bethany at Defiance -  Bethany, I can't pick a team that hasn't scored yet this year.

Westmin at Hiram - clearly Westmin.  Hiram seems intent on working to bring back the D3 longest losing streak back to the NCAC.

Manchester at Waynesburg - I reluctantly pick Waynesburg.  After the Denison collapse I may be wrong - but Waynesburg should be able to handle them if they play defense all 4 quarters.  Maybe Manchester will be tired from all that O from last week

Thiel at Bluffton - Thiel - Bluffton does seem to have their program going in the right direction - but Thiel returns too much talent to let them take one off of them.  Thiel's secondary will make the needed adjustments after last weeks all-too-close win over OWU.

Grove City at Thomas More - Thomas More, although Grove City has been a surprise this year keeping their games close.  Hearing GCC leading at halftime for the CMU game was a shock.

Looking back I see I have partisanly picked all the non-conference games for the PAC.  It just doesn't look like the non-conference competition is that strong this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 17, 2005, 10:06:15 PM
Chris Edwards sets new NCAA Division III record, completing his first 21 passes, leading W&J to 45-21 win over Allegheny.

Edwards also threw for a career best 419 yards.

Ryan Mendel rushed for 100 yards, his third straight game to do so.

Allegheny scored to tie it at 14 with 6:24 to play in the second.  In the next 7 1/2 minutes of game time, W&J scored three touchdowns to go up by 21.

Jon Miller, R.J. Soeder and Aaron Krepps all had big receiving nights.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2005, 09:24:51 PM
Look for Saints LB Mark Carlisle to be named PAC Defensive Player of the Week for the 2nd consecutive time--he had 15 tackles, three for losses, two fumbles caused, one sack and a quarterback pressure.

The Saints defense led them to the win scoring two TD's. As is the norm for any non-Washington & Jefferson team, the defense is ahead of the offense early on in the season.   Hopefully the offense gets back on track on Saturday as they travel to Westminster....

Meanwhile--after warming up against Tri-State and Hanover, it seems the offensive machine in Washington, PA is in mid-season form.  Its scary what they did to Allegheny yesterday....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2005, 09:27:10 PM
oldphart,

How about that spread?  The NCAC spreadmaster (wally) had a tremendous week....I believe he may have made a deal with the devil.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 18, 2005, 10:19:26 PM
SaintsFAN - Wally did an AMAZING job with the spread this past week.  I am going to reserve judgement on satanic influences. However, if Wally's Wabash runs the table in the NCAC this season ...   ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 19, 2005, 02:32:55 PM
How did the W&J defense look against Allegheny?   I was in Toronto this weekend (watching Randy Johnson get thrown out  :))
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GOAT03 on September 25, 2005, 01:03:05 PM
YOU SAY W&J ALUMNI HAVEN'T BEEN POSTING, FOR WHAT.  THE PREZDENTS ARE 4-0, AS EXPECTED.  THEY HAVE NOT PLAYED A CONFERENCE GAME YET AND FROM WHAT I HAVE READ ON D3FOOTBALL THEY ARE ROLLIG ALONG NICELY.  W&J OPENS CONFERENCE PLAY THIS WEEK AT HOME AGAINST THEIL (HOMECOMING).  WE MAY DECIDE TO GRACE YOU WITH OUR PRESENCE ON THE SITE AFTER WE OPEN CONFERENCE PLAY, BUT UNTIL THEN...BE EASY!!!!!!

SSDSGR  8)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gordonmann on September 25, 2005, 05:01:11 PM
What was that?

I couldn't quite hear you...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on September 25, 2005, 05:44:19 PM
There ought well be a special place in the core of Dante's Inferno for those misguided souls who insist on shouting in ALL-CAPS ....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 25, 2005, 06:03:44 PM
After the 9th circle we get to the lake of ice and Lucifer himself - maybe we could send them to Lucifer's testicles? ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: coach em up on September 26, 2005, 03:16:34 PM
Are the Presidents ready to get mauled this Saturday?  This board has been so dead all season and now it is finally the week of reconing for W&J.  That defense hasn't faced a good offense all season and last week Emory & Henry was no different.  Apparently the defensive back coach thinks his kids are "lock down" capable.  WAKE UP!!! They haven't been challenged yet.  He'll see just how shut down INcapable they are when the Tomcat wide-outs catch 5, let's make it 6 TD's on 'em. 

From what I heard the offense couldn't even move the ball against the Wasps during the first quarter last Saturday.  They think they can come in on Oct. 1 and do better.  Two trick plays gave them quick scores and THAT gave them the boost.  Edwards hasn't been touched yet this year it seems like.  This weekend the O-line will give up 4 sacks GUARANTEED!!! We'll see how well their fearful leader will do with pressure in his face.  The defensive records will continue to roll on Oct. 1 for the Tomcats. 

The TOMCATS will win the PAC this Saturday and be on their way to the 2005 Presidents' Athletic Conferenc CHAMPIONS!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2005, 03:49:38 PM
coach em up,

Given your accuracy in prognosticating the W&J/E&H game, a shaker of salt might be needed to digest your latest forecast.

Or should we expect a "This is the week W&J goes down" post from you EVERY week?

And other than a "double-move" by Miller on one play, and straight sprint by Krepps on the other, what "trick" are you talking about?

Enjoy the rest of the season, coach.

Title: Geneva joins PAC
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2005, 03:51:07 PM
Joining Bethany (WV), Thomas More (KY), and Pennsylvania's Grove City, Westminster, Thiel, W&J, Waynesburg and St. Vincents.

See NOTABLES for full release from Conference.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 26, 2005, 03:51:59 PM
Or linked in Notables from the front page, if anyone actually reads the front page. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 26, 2005, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 26, 2005, 03:51:59 PM
Or linked in Notables from the front page, if anyone actually reads the front page. :)

I do.    You just killed my #2 story for ATR (HSU scheduling Linfield).   ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 26, 2005, 04:26:10 PM
This is picky, but it was in Notables 15 minutes before your post and it goes on the front page automatically. Not a big deal. :)

And sorry, Ron -- if I hadn't posted the news it would've been all over the message boards anyway.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 26, 2005, 04:36:55 PM
I was just kidding, Pat ... will probably run with it anyway.   ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 26, 2005, 05:13:38 PM
I guess 'coach' must be an English major from Thiel. 

That day of 'reconing' is worthy of either spell check, or a line from Peter McNeeley's 'cocoon of horror' handbook.

Either way, you always know in what order the 'I' and 'E' goes in THIEL. 

It's always before their next big L.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 26, 2005, 06:22:13 PM
I think 'coach' is more likely a Bio major specializing in herbology - if you catch my drift.   Thiel has only managed 4 or more sacks against Bethany and has put up 6 passing TD in three games.   To meet 'coach's' targets seems a bit ambitious.

While I think coach's prognostications are the efforts of an overstimulated brain, I look forward to Saturday's matchup.   'Coach' is right in that W&J hasn't been tested.  W&J's opponents so far have racked up a pathetic 1-12 record.   Thiel's opponents have a somewhat more respectable 4-6 record.  But Thiel's win against the only winning team on their schedule so far, OWU, was not an impressive defensive performance (giving up 36 points including two loooong touchdown passes).   

Further, there are question marks on both Thiel's passing and running games.  Thiel's standout WR Brandon Chambers did not appear in the Bethany game and their RB Steve Minton, who appeared to be on track for another 100+ game, limped off the field in the 2nd quarter.  While Thiel has some depth, it would be a pity if this game didn't feature both team's top performers.   

Seeing that both Hanover & Allegheny were able to generate a fair number of points against the W&J D puts my in the position to expect that Thiel will be able to put up points also.  Thiel's O is at least the equal of either of those two squads.  I think this game will hinge on whether or not the Thiel secondary - after an unimpressive performance in their OWU opener -  can blunt W&J's potent passing offense.  Yes, it would be good if Thiel could manage a few sacks - but they need to keep in mind that this is W&J, not Bethany.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 26, 2005, 07:21:32 PM
Quote from: OldPhart on September 26, 2005, 06:22:13 PM
Thiel's opponents have a somewhat more respectable 4-6 record.

Scratch that - make it 'a somewhat more respectable 4-7 record'.  As you know, there are only 3 kinds of people in this world: those that can count, and those who can't.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on September 26, 2005, 09:28:32 PM
Are you suggesting that he is "coaching up" Cheech & Chong? Although, I agree 'coach em up' may have spent too much time studying the science of Hydroponics, this will be a battle to the end & worth the price of admission (even at the inflated rates of the "Historic Cameron Stadium").
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on September 26, 2005, 09:37:55 PM
Geneva is now a PAC member? Attention, the floodgates have been opened. Who's joining next, Tom's College?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 27, 2005, 12:34:38 AM
I think that Saturday's game will be a great battle. The past 3 years has seen two great games. Last year W&J jumped out early on 2 miscues to take the lead 14-0 in the rainy afternoon at Thiel. I agree that it would be a shame if both teams are not at 100 percent but injuries happen because that is football. I think it will come down to the battle of Defenses. Both have good offenses. W&J has played the little sisters of the poor thus far and handled buisness accordingly. Thiel has played decent competition but nothing to phone home about even though OWU will likely win thier conference. I think Saturday will feature two great teams that will be in the playoffs come November. Whats at stake this week is the conference championship and I think all who attend will see something special.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 27, 2005, 04:16:44 PM
In a way, I hope you are right.  I tire at the homecoming game of the 'cupcakes', and wouldn't mind seeing someone actually provide some competition going into the second half.   

I was at that game last year and though I think Thiel has finally pointed that program in the right direction, didn't really see the game as close as you imply.  With kids at this age in the sport, anything can happen though.   I do agree that this defense has yet to be challenged from what I have witnessed.

That said,  if W&J is supposed to be a Top 5 team and contend for what people are reporting, Thiel should be handled with ease.  If not, then there is some explaining to do.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 27, 2005, 05:21:07 PM
burghboy - I agree with PittTBCW that the past 3 years have had 2 great games between these schools.  I also agree with you that last year wasn't one of them. 

2002 W&J 21 Thiel 17 - W&J barely outgains Thiel 321-319 coming from behind to score the last 14 points.
2003 W&J 17 Thiel 10 - Thiel barely outgains W&J 232-229 and suffers a 14 point swing when Pilato intercepts in the endzone, returning 100 yards for the score.  Despite trailing 17-0, Thiel makes a game of it with 3 late drives, with the final drive ending in a second Pilato interception as time expires. 

Those games were worth watching.

2004 W&J 34 Thiel 10 - Thiel outgains W&J 320-293 again but W&J leads in time of posession 33:03 to 26:07.  Thiel gives up two quick scores off of a fumble and a blocked punt early on and puts their strong running game on ice in an effort to make some quick scores with the passing game.  W&J eats the clock up with an impressive drive taking 8:47 off the clock - with 1 pass play and 14 rushes ultimately resulting in a touchdown on a 4th and goal play.

Thiel keeps it somewhat interesting with 5 red zone appearances.  However, they only capitalize on 2 of them -  while the Presidents were a perfect 4/4 in the red zone.

This game was a bit of a yawner - even though Thiel could move the ball on W&J they made far too many mistakes to stay in the game.

This year let's hope that both teams are in their best form. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 27, 2005, 07:01:54 PM
OP-Just curious, but out of those three games, how many of them were you at?

I ususally wouldn't cross the street for a Thiel/W&J contest (an admitted bias from my years), but have a camper up north and was closing it the weekend they played up there.   I was glad I went though, and was surprised at the improvements I witnessed with the program.

I watched the whole game, and all I remember was at half it W&J was up almost three touchdowns.   Much like the Hanover game this year, where stats were brought up against the Presidents, where all you needed to see was the game to understand them.    

This is just my opinion, but I don't think you can break down statistics after three games between two D-III programs playing no common opponents and come up with a trend that smacks one on the forehead in this game, let alone games from the two teams in 2002 and 2003 (or '04 for that matter). 

I'm obviously a W&J supporter, but like I said before would like to see them get tested at bit somewhere on this schedule.  If not Thiel, I don't know where else it will come from.   I maintain the formula to compete with W&J is ball control on offense, and a defense that can be physical and keep them inside the hash marks.

So says the washed up weekend warrior message board geek  :D

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 27, 2005, 07:34:07 PM
A few rambling thoughts from a rambling mind:

*  Before the message board format was changed, we were having a discussion between IAA non scholarship and D III.   I guess it's not directed at anyone in particular, but why is Robert Morris playing Rowan last week, and traveling there?  If Robert Morris is looking to fill it's schedule, there are plenty of quality programs in this area. 

Rowan won in OT by the way 35-28.


*  What does the 'karma' mean on our profiles, and how/where do I get some?

*  I had someone tell me if I heard of a writer from the Washington paper (Observer Reporter) getting arrested recently?  This writer used to cover W&J athletics some years ago from time to time, and I was wondering if someone heard of this?  I don't want to put his name on here publically because A.) I don't know if it's accurate and B.) the crime I was told comitted was pretty awful.   I only read the OR online and don't know if anyone else would know.

If you do have any tips and don't want to pollute it here, you can use the private message feature here and/or email me.  Much obliged.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 27, 2005, 08:04:43 PM
Yes, Tom Rose was arrested, and the Observer-Reporter covered it so I think it's fair game to talk about.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 27, 2005, 09:01:18 PM
burghboy - I didn't make it down to Cameron stadium in 2003, but was at the two in Greenville.  Of course - I looked up the stats, but was doing it to add to my fading memories.  If you were at the 2004 tilt you know that Thiel, after giving up 14 quick points on the fumble & the block in the first five minutes played W&J pretty even for MOST of the rest of the half.  Thiel was down by 11 points just before the half and I think the crowd was rather upbeat.  Of course, W&J had a nice 2 minute drill to finish out the half and pad their lead up to 18.  Even with that I really thought Thiel might have a shot at clawing their way back - until W&J  came out in the second half and ran it down their throats. 

However, the 2002 game was an excellent contest.  I was at that one also. My recollection was that Fry was dinged up a bit and I think he might have only been in the game for the two plays that he scored on - thats an item you can't fish out of the box score.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that 2004 yardage stats was evidence that Thiel outplayed W&J last year.  Although, I can't help but note that some W&J fans were VERY interested in pulling up the yardage figures on this board back in 2002 when the Gators upset them. ;)   All this said - I think the original intent of PittTBCW's post & my follow up was that the last three years have yielded 2 good games and one that was rather ho-hum - perhaps due to the two early Thiel miscues. I think the statistics, as well as the scores, bear out that these were competitive contests. I know I said "great" games in my earlier post - but on second thought they were only good - the wrong team won.   :D

Given this recent history between the two teams, what I know about each team's strengths and weaknesses, I expect Thiel to provide a test for W&J, as well as vice-versa.  Statistics, current W-L records, and knowledge about the players and coaches who make up the teams suggest this.  Of course, if we could figure everything out through these means we could get rid of those pesky games and just determine the wins and losses for each team by talking them through on this board. ;D

One thing I think we can agree on - if not Thiel than who else?  I think the best of the rest of the schedule is Waynesburg  and TMC.  While I know SaintsFAN has a high opinion of TMC's D, I think neither team will be much of a speed bump on W&J's road to the playoffs.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 27, 2005, 10:42:22 PM
Pat-Thanks.   I heard Rose was arrested, and could not find a link for it.  I assume it was for what I heard it was, which leaves me numb and quite nauseated. 

OP-Thanks for your thoughts, especially your points on the games you went to.  As for the statistics, I can assure you I'm not one that dwells on them.  Like I said before, I think you can use stats to support all sorts of arguments and opinions as much as facts. 

I remember the W&J folks bringing up the stats in the Allegheny game, and I think it was that game or another one they lost where I posted that 'statistics are for losers'.  Not meaning that literally of course, but chances are when you are arguing things like that, you are turning away from the scoreboard.   That said, I can understand and appreciate the banter when trying to discuss what may happen on Saturdays.    I have to admit I don't take as much stock in them as others do.

Maybe I'm a bit more sensitive after a Steeler loss.  If I hear one more person talk about the game clock,  or 'if WE didn't turn the ball over', etc.  I may hurl  :D





Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 27, 2005, 10:51:03 PM
Thiel And W&J should be a solid game this year.  Edwards is quickly becoming the most prolific passer in history, and Thiel continues to make strides toward winning the PAC.  This year should be no different than in the past and will be a quality game with great coaching to be the difference maker.  Question is can Thiel rebound from its injuries of last week, and can W&J's oline handle a quick and blitziing Dline?  W&J never known for quality competition the first couple weeks of the season, but they have always answered the question when it comes down to the PAC every year.  Will they do it this Saturday?  Or can Thiel take another Step up the PAC ladder?  What are your thoughts???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 28, 2005, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on September 27, 2005, 10:51:03 PM

  W&J never known for quality competition the first couple weeks of the season....


What does that mean? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on September 28, 2005, 03:44:00 PM
it means in their opening games every year they play sub-par teams, in other words, teams they can beat up on.  Their first four opponents combined have one win so far this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on September 28, 2005, 03:50:21 PM
really looking forward to the game on Saturday....should be a great one--- Thiel must control the football game by running the football behind their experienced offensive line.  The defense must stop big plays and they will be ok----- easier said then done though----we'll see on Saturday
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 28, 2005, 04:38:33 PM
PACalum, your point might have validity if the schedules were made in August, and you could show that W&J KNEW that ALL four teams would be down.

E&H has a tradition-rich football program, and these two teams have met in the NCAA playoffs previously.  They are down at the moment, but it's not clear that was known to be on the horizon when the agreement was made.

Hanover has numerous HIAC championships and trips to the NCAA playoffs as well.  The series between the two has shifted in the Presidents' favor the past few years, but is still very competitive.

Allegheny has a national championship to its credit as well as numerous NCAA playoff berths, and at least one meeting in the playoffs between the two schools.  While the berths may have been more recent in Allegheny's history when this non-conference agreement began, it is a fact, and the Gators have challenged the Presidents several times over the past 6 meetings.

Tri-State, well, THAT might fit your premise, but the other three are out of bounds.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on September 28, 2005, 05:03:52 PM
never said they scheduled them on purpose as easy games- just happened to end up that way
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on September 28, 2005, 05:47:00 PM
I thought this was interesting- it is a division III version of the BCS system with strength of schedule playing into the equation, along with quality of wins---check it out-----> http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&sub=III&mid=6]http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&sub=III&mid=6
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2005, 09:05:05 PM
Yep, Massey does Division III football. I would avoid putting too much stock in any computer ranking this early in the season, though -- any system like that needs more games to be played.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 28, 2005, 09:19:40 PM
Quote from: PACalum on September 28, 2005, 05:03:52 PM
never said they scheduled them on purpose as easy games- just happened to end up that way
You DIDN'T say they scheduled them on purpose???

"it means in their opening games every year they play sub-par teams, in other words, teams they can beat up on."
Title: Burgh Boy....
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 08:06:44 AM
Burgh, my comment about the lack of competition WJ has played for their first 4 games the last 4 years has been down.  Bob Gregg showed the massey ratings which has WJ ranked in the 70's and Thiel in the mid 20's.  Don't get me wrong I do not take those for what they are worth, but there is one thing that comes out of those rankings.  The level of competition that Thiel has played compared to WJ is stronger.  Bob Gregg brought to the table some excellent stats on the history of those teams that WJ has played, but we must be honest with ourselves.  Over the last 5  years these teams programs E&H, Tri-State has not been successful.  While Allegheny has tasted playoffs recently they are nowhere close to the late 80's early 90 playoff and national championship teams.  Hanover also has seen WJ in the playoffs years ago, but now they seem to be off track with their history and level of play. 

Overall, WJ has continued to recruit finer players and also this is a kudos to the coaching staff for their efforts.  Anyone who has followed the PAC especially in the last few years knows that they do not have a strong first 4 games, and they always crush their opponets. 

Am I making a valid point here, or am i seeing this all wrong?  Let's hear the room speak up about this topic, and I would like to hear what burgh boy has to say in defense of his beloved Presidents. 
You stay classy PAC board!
Title: Burgh Boy....
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 08:24:00 AM
Another random rant that I forgot to add was the d3football rankings which has Thiel actually ranked 7th and WJ is ranked 80th in the country.  In noway are those two comparable or justified.  They are simply based on the limited amount of games the teams have played, and those teams current records.  Overall the 4 teams that WJ has played has a combined record of 1-9, and Thiel's is better but not outstanding by any means at 4-7.  Also WJ has played one more game than Thiel due to their bye week they had earlier in the season.  Stay Classy PAC Board!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 29, 2005, 08:39:47 AM
Quite frankly Cleveland, I think you couldn't be more wrong. 

Until the Tomcats prove otherwise, Allegheny and E&H are considered better programs than Thiel.  Toss Hanover in there as well.   

I'm not much into some formula that a guy on his couch comes up that is applied through three weeks of September play.  Schedules are at times made years in advance, and as I will explain below, other factors in my opinion come into play.  You also want to look for opponents with a solid tradition of winning programs, playoff representation, and even coaches/represenatives that could provide support for you when it comes to the playoffs, especially when you are in a conference that doesn't have an automatic bid.

In the meantime, take these numbers into account when questioning recent W&J opponents:

*  Hanover has a winning tradition, with only one non winning season (.500) in the previous six years, and four appearances in the NCAA playoffs. 

*  Emory and Henry over that same span has not fared as well, but still has four seasons of .500 or better with one appearance in the NCAA playoffs.   As Mr. Gregg mentions, there is a history between the two teams in earlier years and a great playoff contest that many familiar with the program still talk about to this day. 

*  Allegheny:  No seasons of under .500 football and one NCAA appearance in as many seasons.  A regular season record of 35-26 during that time.  Again, Mr. Gregg notes the national championship (I believe it was 1990). 

I also know from personal experience that the program has historically had a difficult time scheduling games outside of the conference. 

Not to paint with a broad brush, but there are teams that have enough competition in their own conference and don't need 'tested', or teams that may have playoff aspirations and think playing W&J would risk their chances should it come to an playoff bid.  I remember dealing with that as a player, and getting responses similar to that in recent years when not excited about the upcoming schedule.   As I noted before, scheduling is also attempted quite soooner than year to year in many cases. 

I understand the hatred toward W&J and it's grip on the conference.  If I didn't have my own ties, I would be probably wanting someone else to finally upend them as well.   If you want to say they 'haven't been tested', I will grant you that.  If you want to say that this is their first 'real opponent', I could see you point there as well for that opinion. 

That said, comments about them being 'known' for not scheduling competition is inaccurate, and implies that they are looking for teams to push around before conference play.  Maybe that wasn't meant to be the implication, and maybe I'm reading it wrong. 

If anything, W&J has been 'known' for not playing in a competitive conference.  I applaud Thiel and Waynesburg in recent years for their quest to change that, but can it be done for a period of time that improves the reputation of the PAC?  I think that should be the real issue.

Sorry for the rant. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 09:03:38 AM
Burgh Boy,

Great Reply and you had some terrific stats to back your statements.  I said quite a few things in my rants, but you definetly got the 3 main points out of it.  First being that their competition has been sub par.  Secondly they do not schedule any tough opponets and you proved otherwise, and lastly that Thiel is the first test for the Presidents.  My question is how much of the history of a team is really taken into consideration?  I agree with what you replied back with, and not to be mistaken either that a reason for the constant blowouts in the first 4 games of the season is also to the school and the coaches for their hardwork on recruiting.  They are staying above the game and trying to make it to the big dance and have done better than anyone else in the PAC.  The game this weekend should be exciting and a true test for both of these teams.  Goodluck to both sides.  Thanks for the reply burgh boy.  Now if we were talking about the Pirates and Indians it might be a little more one sided! J/K

You Stay Classy PAC board!

That said, comments about them being 'known' for not scheduling competition is inaccurate, and implies that they are looking for teams to push around before conference play.  Maybe that wasn't meant to be the implication, and maybe I'm reading it wrong. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 29, 2005, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 09:03:38 AM
  My question is how much of the history of a team is really taken into consideration? 


I don't know if I'm qualified to answer that in all honesty, as I'm not tied to the program other than following them.  The playoff system has changed through the last several years, but I can assure you that if W&J wanted to pile on more wins, they would have lobbied to play their conference opponents twice through the years  :)

I do know (and this may date me a bit) that when I was involved with the program, they attempted to play programs that would broaden their profile and strengthen it from a regional and national perspective. 

Ithaca and Cortland State were on the schedule for some of those years.  W&J beat Ithaca when they were the defending National Champions in 1989, and while that may seem like a long time ago, adds to a program through recruiting and most of all, respect outside your area.   

I remember playing teams in other regions in attempts to 'build a case' should your team be on the bubble come playoff time.  Teams like Widener and Juniata in the eastern part of the state come to mind (where teams like Lycoming were a power).  I remember when Carnegie Mellon defected from the PAC W&J attempting to play teams in their conference.   There was definitely a method to who the program would schedule.  It may not succeed with win/loss records at the time when you play them, but it's far from what you were implying earlier. 

Again, I'm not tied to the program, but in my opinion there were years where maybe W&J was not as deserving of a playoff spot, but did receive one due to their reputation as a program.  I think the foundation for that reputation in part was because their willingness to play opponents as I have mentioned through the years.  Those are things you can't just put into a formula in my opinion.


Just my two cents. 

 




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 29, 2005, 10:37:03 AM
Cleveland Cartel:

Those are the NCAA's rankings. We just publish them. And in your selective reading, you must have missed this:

"This measure is even more meaningless in September and early October, with the majority of the schedule yet to be played."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 10:57:40 AM
Pat,


Another random rant that I forgot to add was the d3football rankings which has Thiel actually ranked 7th and WJ is ranked 80th in the country.  In noway are those two comparable or justified.

This is from the post of the D3football rankings post earlier, and yes I definetly understand that those rankings are meaningless and are not comparable or justified to the actual teams. 

What we can take from this is the quality of the opponets early in the season.  Obviously the computer does not know that WJ is a top 10 team, been dominant inside and outside of the PAC, and has made and gone deep into the playoffs in previous years. 

Pat what is your take on the game this weekend and also about WJ's first 4 games this season?  Also predictions for the rest of the PAC games that are taking place?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on September 29, 2005, 11:05:45 AM
My picks for this week:

Grove City over Bethany-- expect a close one
Waynesburg over Thomas More-- TMC gets a taste of the upper half of the PAC--but a close game
Thiel over W&J-- W&J gets dethroned on homecoming

anyone else?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 29, 2005, 11:36:16 AM
If you continue to refer to the NCAA's Quality of Wins ranking as "d3football's ranking" then I have no desire to answer your questions. I quite clearly spelled out whose rankings those are, not only on the page on which they appear, but also in my earlier message.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 29, 2005, 01:35:40 PM
Ok PACAlum, I'll bite -

Bethany  - Bethany has improved.  They have been able to generate some O but they have generated a fair number of turnovers too.  If they can hang onto the ball they should end the day a touchdown over GCC.

Waynesburg - TMC has shown they can play D - but against the lower half of the PAC.  I see Waynesburg providing a reality check for TMC - by at least 10 and probably more.

W&J - My heart says Thiel & my head says W&J.  I think that  Thiel fields a strong team this year.  That said,  injuries, the loss of their strong Freshman punter to the guards (he is now serving in Louisiana as part of the post-hurricane Katrina contingent), and W&J on their home turf holds Thiel at bay for another year.  Despite this, I expect Thiel to keep it within 10.

C'mon Tomcats - prove me wrong!

Now in the "step-sister" games:

PAC newcomer Geneva (3-1) will bow to St. Francis (3-0).  I expect they will keep it within two scores though.

St. Vincent - remains undefeated and unscored upon for the 2005 season  :D

Geez - maybe we could actually start a PAC pick 'em thread if there is enough interest out there. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: xfactor on September 29, 2005, 01:44:07 PM
Log on next friday for the XFACTOR 'cause he's back like scoliosis.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 04:05:04 PM
Cleveland Cartel:

Those are the NCAA's rankings. We just publish them. And in your selective reading, you must have missed this:
"This measure is even more meaningless in September and early October, with the majority of the schedule yet to be played."


Pat,  that point was accomplished ealier in the posts and I pointed that out in my original post of the "NCAA Rankings"
Twice I have said that in noway are those "NCAA Rankings" justified!  I have agreed with you twice again that they are not justified by any means and are meaningless!  If you continue to post that I will not respond because I do not have the desire to anymore.  Bring on the Karma!

Thank you Mr. Coleman

Stay Classy PAC Board!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2005, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on September 29, 2005, 08:39:47 AM
....a great playoff contest that many familiar with the program still talk about to this day. 

I still talk about the 1987 game because had W&J covered those last 13 yards, I would have had to choose between covering the National Semifinals or asking my then fiance' to move our wedding from 12:30 to say 5:30....

Lou Wacker made sure that I was getting married on time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 29, 2005, 04:23:24 PM
Actually, twice you have said they are d3football rankings, not NCAA rankings. That's why I object.

QuoteAnother random rant that I forgot to add was the d3football rankings which has Thiel actually ranked 7th and WJ is ranked 80th in the country.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 04:24:32 PM
Pat I must admit you are the GURU!


Stay Classy PAC Board!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on September 29, 2005, 04:32:33 PM
Here is one for ya- who is more of a weapon/threat for their respective teams- and.......who has a better game on Saturday?????

Aaron Krepps- W&J
Brandon Chambers- Thiel


???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 04:51:55 PM
Great Question Pacalum.


I would have to favor Krepps, and that is only because not only has he matched Chambers for recieiving but he does it also on Kickoffs and Punt returns.  Thiel also loves to run the ball and chew up the game clock more than passing.  Chambers could easily be put on special teams, but he isn't and for that reason I believe is the deciding factor of why Krepps is more valuable to his team because of all the other positions he holds for WJ.  Krepps sets up the scoring drives by getting quality field position, and then he finishes them off by catching a 45 yard bomb from Edwards!  Let the kid kick the extra point one of these times! 

Stay Class PAC Board!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on September 29, 2005, 05:16:29 PM
Cleveland Cartel,

kicking extra points isnt as easy as it looks!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC4LIFE on September 29, 2005, 07:44:46 PM
Are you kidding me???

Anyone who thinks Thiel has a chance vs the Prezidents should never watch football again. Thiel's D-line only managed good sack numbers against bad/horrible offensive lines. If they even get to smell the golden boy this Saturday I will be surprised. Thiel's linebacker are depleated after losing the two studs from last year. Rumor has it that the best one this year did not play vs Bethany. So tell me how they can stop Mendel and the powerful running game? The defensive backs....you have some atheletes in the secondary. With that being said they can't even cover OWU's wideouts. I think one is so short that he can't even ride the big boy rides at Disneyland. I think you get my drift. The defense will be lucky to hold the Prezidents under 500 total yards. I am predicting Mendel to get his 100 and Edwards with about 350 and 4 maybe 5 touchdowns. Give me a break Thiel could not even sniff the jocks of this offense let alone stop them. I think W&J rules past the Tomcats despite Thiel's early success. Thiel's offensive is also beat up. There only two athletes did not play against Bethany. Well one did if you count a quarter and half vs the Bison. The closest they get to the endzone is when they spot the ball at the 20 during warm-ups.

W&J 50 - Theil 0

Who cares what everyone else does this week. Its W&J's year to walk thru the PAC and into the playoffs and then into the Stagg Bowl!!!

Go Prez!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2005, 08:15:44 PM
Here is a Pres AC expansion question.

I have read of the joining of St Vincent and Geneva and speculations of Seton Hill.

Is Franciscan of Steubenville on the Presidents AC dance card?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2005, 08:17:55 PM
PAC 4 Life,

Put your money where your mouth is tough guy....$1000 that it isnt 50-0???

Where you at Tommy Tought Nuts???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 29, 2005, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 29, 2005, 08:15:44 PM

Is Franciscan of Steubenville on the Presidents AC dance card?


Hmmm - an interesting idea.  Geographically they make sense and I know Steubenville is looking to join D3.  But if they did, would they add football? They already have an active rugby program & when I look at their club sports I doubt that they could justify football in light of Title IX requirements.  Of course - that doesn't have to be an obstacle. GCC seems to do fine without Title IX. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 29, 2005, 09:51:00 PM
I am glad that people are finally talking it up in the PAC. Looks like PAC4LIFE means exactly what his name says. I think he probably still lives through the days when he sat on the bench and watched real football players play in the PAC. I bet after Thiel beats W&J we don't hear from that lowlife again. I will take the bet as well. Like I said before this is going to be a great game and well worth the price of admission. I think after this game someone will have a chance to claim the PAC crown for the 1st time in a while as long as they take care of buisness in the rest of the PAC. By the way I think they picked on the wrong cats this week!

GO TOMCATS!!!

Take care of buisness men!

We need a poll for this game.

Although I think most will pick W&J I am curious!
Title: Thiel @ W&J
Post by: PittTBCW on September 29, 2005, 09:53:07 PM
Here we go!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 30, 2005, 07:50:14 AM
I want to see some more Poll jumpers and start getting the results going a little higher!

DO IT! 

Quote of the Day

Starsky: Pop the trunk lets get a whiff of that new car smell!

Hutch: Yeah Pop It!

Starsky:  The kid is from Texas he rode a horse up here he doesn't even have a drivers License!

DO IT!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 30, 2005, 10:32:42 AM
5-4 Tomcat favor thus far??

I guess it will be pretty close to 50 - 50 when kickoff comes at 2pm tomorrow.

GO Cats!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 01, 2005, 08:36:27 AM
ITS GAME DAY!!!! Goodluck to everyone in the PAC and around the Nation today.  And also to the Presidents and Tomcats in Washington, PA!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 01, 2005, 05:44:57 PM
THUD

Thiel 38
W&J 35 in overtime

FINAL
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 01, 2005, 06:51:18 PM
Just got back, and want to give my congrats to Thiel and it's supporters today.  It was a enjoyable game from a football perspective to watch. 

I want to post a lot of things questioning W&J's play and strategy, but it may come across as discounting what Thiel did, which is not my intent. 

In light of that, I'm just going to hold off on those thoughts for now.  It's Thiel's day, and they should enjoy it for their accomplishments.

Again, my congratulations to you folks that have stayed with the Thiel program through thick and thin.  You deserve it  :)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2005, 07:22:26 PM
Just got back from Homecoming at Thomas More.  The Saints continued to play great defense in holding Waynesburg to 7 points.  Those points came on a short field after at TMC fumble.  The offense is doing what it has to do--eating up yards and clock.  I like this team.  One down note though.  Starting QB Berkley is done for the season after breaking his ankle and tearing all the ligaments down there.  He was scheduled for surgery this afternoon.  He's a senior and I feel bad because I know thats not the way he wanted to go out.

I have one comment about the game.  Waynesburg could be the most undisciplined team I've seen in a long time.  From personal fouls to their corner (#8) getting thrown out for throwing punches to their fans getting mouthy with the Thomas More fans...this program is an embarrassment. 

All day complaining about the refs calls.  The refs didn't cost you that game, TMC's Coaches and players did a brilliant job and WON this one.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on October 01, 2005, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: PAC4LIFE on September 29, 2005, 07:44:46 PM
Anyone who thinks Thiel has a chance vs the Prezidents should never watch football again.

Give me a break Thiel could not even sniff the jocks of this offense let alone stop them. 

The closest they get to the endzone is when they spot the ball at the 20 during warm-ups.

W&J 50 - Theil 0

Wow, hope you didn't put any money on those comments.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 01, 2005, 08:57:10 PM
SaintsFAN - Congratulations to TMC.  Reading the front page here, I discovered that Thiel had not only defeated W&J, but also obtained the lead in the PAC.  ::) 

I suppose on a percentage basis, Thiel shares the lead with TMC.  Despite the big win over W&J, Thiel is only 2-0 in conference play and has to continue to pick their way through the PAC in order to catch up to TMC.  Do I think they can do it?  Yup.  The players have to take it one game at a time - but I can look forward to having the PAC championship determined in Greenville on October 29th with TMC at 4-0 and Thiel at 5-0 in conference. 

Sorry to hear about your QB.  It is tough enough when you are a starter, but as a Senior it is miserable. :( 

I hope you will make it to Greenville for what I hope will be the conference championship.  Our student services hosts a tailgate serving up fried chicken (always) and some selection from the kielbasa, smoked sausage, jambalaya food group.  Visitors welcome  - donations accepted.

I think you will find the Thiel fans a hospitable crew overall - although it just takes one jerk to make the rest of us look bad. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 01, 2005, 11:19:21 PM
Thiel beats W&J.

From what I heard that was one of the best games anyone has seen in a while. Obviously I am glad Thiel won the game, however they still have to win out in the conference. They face several tough games coming up. I believe 2 teams will make the playoffs from this conference. Thomas More is recking  house thus far in the PAC. Kudos to a job done well. I know everyone wants to second guess W&J on how they loss, but lets give credit to where credit deserves. And that of course is Thiel College. The coaching staff and players had the will to win. A few years ago after trailing 14-0 early on they would have packed it in and lost by 50 or 60. Instead, they turn it around and unthrown the defending PAC champs. Congrats Tomcats!!! Remember 1-0 every game all season long. Do not look ahead and take each team one at a time. Do not let a break down ruin this truly great season. See both teams in the playoffs.


Thiel you have something special in front of you. Take it game by game. DO NOT LOOK AHEAD.

I am truly so proud of you men.

Keep it up.

On another note, as I called all week long, 2-0 @5:15 PM, Baldwin wins and earns a playoff berth In the WPIAL QUAD EAST.

GO FIGHTING HIGHLANDERS & TOMCATS
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 01, 2005, 11:52:20 PM
      I find it hard to beleive there is no action after comments made after Thiel beat W&J. I think it must be our board. All the W&J babies are trying to think of ways they blew it, instead of giving credit to the better team, the Thiel Tomcats. Could it be true that W&J falls to 3rd in this conference after TMC beats them? Maybe that will create some posts because if the #1 team in the conference gets beat and nonone posts, its obvious to say that the posters are W&J people.
     Face it dudes, you lost to a good team. Its not like you lost to a bad team. Thiel should run the table and win all of there games. You will be 9-1 and Thiel will be 10-0 thats right PAC champs aslong as they take care of buisness. Both in the playoffs and who knows.

Best of luck the rest of the way to the Tomcats and the rest of the PAC conference
Title: Awesome Game.....
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 02, 2005, 12:34:00 AM
After watching the WJ and Thiel game you saw two things:

1.  The heart from both teams to come back from deficits and continuing to work through adversity.

2.  Both teams were well coached and had great strategies from the start of the game.

Ultimately Proud of both teams, it was a great competitive and electrified 4 quarters of football. 

What I am most proud of is the heart of the Tomcats who were down 14-0 with 8 minutes in the first.  Reminded some of last years game when Thiel was also down 14-0, but these are the same kids who have a year more of maturity, discipline, focus, and leadership.  Today they overcame adversity and a hostile environment at legendary Cameron Field and came away with a W.  I am truly impressed but by no means shocked in the play of the Tomcats.  I will wait to post more, but I must say this.......In Response to PAC 4 Life's diss on the Tomcats team...This is his quote....
FROM PAC 4 LIFE:
I think one is so short that he can't even ride the big boy rides at Disneyland. I think you get my drift.


After that short DB picked off Edwards and ran it 45 yeards to the house untouched Disney called up and gave him Clearance to offically ride the big boy rides!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 02, 2005, 12:49:12 AM
PITTTBCW:

It is late and we will see tommorrow if anyone else besides burgh boy is man enough to give credit to where credit is due.  So heres one right now....Burgh Boy you have my ultimate respect and I look forward to hearing your post game remarks.  Gnite PAC board....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 02, 2005, 09:42:00 AM
Great game between Thiel & W&J yesterday.  I thought Thiel RB Minton took the game over late in the second half picking up critical first downs and getting some very tough yards.  In the end Thiel picked Edwards off 5 times (one coming in overtime) and it proved to be too many mistakes against a worthy opponent.  That said, it was one of the best games I've seen in a long time between two very good teams. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 02, 2005, 10:55:56 AM
First of all Cleveland-apprecicate the kind words.  I don't have any reason to make excuses or rationalize something that didn't happen.  If W&J wins or loses, I still get the same amount of sleep, and my mortage and paycheck don't change because of it.   :)

That said, my comments about the game probably go between A.) enjoying college football and watching it from a fan perspective and B.) utter disgust as to how W&J (in my opinion) approached it and their performance.  I know my comments under 'B' may be taken as 'sour grapes' by some that are not W&J suppporters, and all I can ask is that you understand that it's not meant to dismiss what Thiel did yesterday. 

So with that in mind, let me give my opinions from point A.   I posted this last week:

Quote from: the_burghboy on September 27, 2005, 07:01:54 PM I maintain the formula to compete with W&J is ball control on offense, and a defense that can be physical and keep them inside the hash marks.

I don't look at statistics, but in my opinion Thiel controlled the clock enough and made good on their possessions to keep W&J pressing.  Thiel was clearly more physical, and it showed as Edwards looked rattled, their defense had their hands on their hips in critical situations, and running backs looked tenative.  That in my opinion is a product of smacking your opponent in the mouth, and that's what Thiel did.  Minton was fun to watch and took on players carrying the ball.  That's a guy and philosophy that I like.   The 80 yard drive that Thiel had  was all you had to know to this game, even though there was still a lot of football left at that time.

Again, best wishes to Thiel the rest of the season.  I'm seriously thinking about going to see them play Thomas More in late October if things continue to play out conference wise.

Now for the B.) point in my noodle.  May want to look elsewhere, and apologize in advance if people take it wrong:

The running joke in our section was that Walt Harris wasn't in Stanford, but was in Washington yesterday.  The pass happy offense with no real comittment defensively or to a structured running game catches up eventually to a team that can play the way Thiel did yesterday, and have enough talent to back that up.   

Most teams on the Presidents schedule can't, and it's fun to watch the multiple receivers and not think about the big picture, because let's face it, they are winning games.  However, in the end, they play a finesse style and one that won't get them to where they want to go.  It's a defense that game up big points and yardage (and not 'mop up' numbers) last year to Waynesburg late last season, and in two of the three playoff games in the postseason. 

The coach made comments yesterday stating Thiel is "the best team we've played in the regular season since 2000.  I keep telling people but no one believed me"

Apparently part of those 'people' were your own players.  Granted, this is not the Thiel Tomcats of old, but I'm sorry (and not meant to offend):  If you are a top Division III program, you don't lose to THIEL on your home field.   They didn't roll over after 14-0, where maybe in years past that was expected.

Now, it wouldn't take much of an argument to say I don't know what I'm talking about if one wants to raise it.  That said, the facts are that this is a coaching staff and program that despite last year's success looks to not be able to win their own conference two of three years, and now a playoff appearance looks to be (contrary to what the opinion written in today's O-R article) far from a lock.   

I remember hearing the same thing in 2003 after W&J lost the PAC to Waynesburg, then late in the season lost to 2-8 Buffalo State.   I will say I'm encouraged that this team will not falter like that team from their ability to battle back at times yesterday, but it's still early October, and a lot can happen.

That may sound harsh to people that don't follow W&J, but the cold reality is those are the expectations.   I'm much more interested on their play between the lines than reading quotes on how hard it is for the program in win.  I'm willing to wager I'm not alone in that opinion.

That's my two cents.  I'm sure all arrows and shots will be served, and willing to talk about them for what it's worth. 























Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 02, 2005, 03:04:16 PM
Burgh that is a solid analysis I must say.


1.  No matter who your playing you do expect to win at home and on Homecoming.  I agree with that 100%.

2.  Krepps has sick moves and kept WJ in the game as best he could.  Because of the attention put on him the other recievers were able to get open and score touchdowns.  Truly impressed with Krepps and his abilities.

3.  Edwards had the worse game of the season by far with 5 picks, but he went up against a well coached and active secondary of the Tomcats.  A few balls were tipped and a few were just Tomcats D making plays.  WJ goes as far as Edwards can take them and you can be sure he will be on top of his game this week in practice, next saturday, and for the rest of the season.  The kid is still one of the best QB's on the field every Saturday.

4.  WJ's running game does not put a fear of god into anyone like the 4 or 5 wides will.  The two backs did not do too much damage in the game and maybe accounted for just over a 100 yards?

5.  Overall WJ is by no means out of anything and they are still a ranked and quality football team.  Goodluck to them the rest of the way.  The more PAC teams in the playoffs the better the representation.

Congrats again to the Tomcats!

Burgh Boy if the season continues to go the way they are you should definelty make the trip to Thiel and stop into one of Greenvilles fine establishments in the area.

Also is there anymore feedback about that Waynesburg vs. TMC game?   How bad was the officiating?? Was it really as aweful as the Waynesburg fans thought?  I would like some more views and feedback of that game.  Sounded like it was a dramatic game with some unexpected on field actions between players. 

Also, in the post game report it  had a briefing about TMC's linebacker making a huge play and it was stated something like this:
TMC's linebacker caught up to Ryan Abels at the 4 yard line after he had broken free almost for a 90 yard touchdown run.  That is a Highlight I would love to see and a Linebacker with some natual freakish Ability!

Did anyone see that play and how great was it? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 02, 2005, 06:44:24 PM
"If Thiel couldn't beat W&J in 2003, then there is NO WAY they will beat them in 2005."
                                                    --- Bob Gregg, August 2005 ---

Sorry Bob - no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 02, 2005, 06:45:56 PM
Feel free to knock my Karma down to -3 for that last post.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 02, 2005, 08:42:19 PM
HAHA


Even the GURU"S are Wrong!!  That is karma for ya!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2005, 09:02:19 PM
Give me a break!!!

Thiel 22nd in the poll and W&J 16th????????

Very puzzling to me. Thiel beat W&J has faced teams with a way better record and still do not get a higher ranking then W&J.

When will Thiel get the respect they deserve is the question that is going through my mind.

I guess when Thiel runs the table and finishs 10-0 and PAC conference champions they might get some respect.

Give me a break.

Very disappointed to see this.

Lost alot of respect for the voters.


Tomcats just keep kicking you know what and taking names. As long as you believe in yourselves who cares what the polls say. Stay focused and take care of buisness men and the sky is the limit.

In a great coaches words: "Take care of the small things, and the big things will happen"

Thiel keep taking care of the small things.

1-0 every week all season long!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2005, 09:44:33 PM
All things aside, W&J still has starters who have started in playoff games and won them. Those kids are a part of this team and you can't push that aside that easily.

If I were Thiel I'd be worried about having a letdown like the one at Buff State last year.

And don't kid yourself -- Bluffton and Bethany are not stellar opponents either. No voter is stupid enough to think that. Ohio Wesleyan has not gotten one vote all year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 02, 2005, 10:20:45 PM
 PittTBCW - Relax.   W&J's Sirianni's may have inherited a program with a strong tradition - but he hasn't been standing still waiting for the rest of the PAC to catch up.  Yes, Thiel beat W&J on the field - but Thiel has yet to show the consistency of the W&J program.  The voters are probably confident that W&J will win out - but aren't as confident that Thiel will do so.  W&J has a postseason history - Thiel does not. 

In another example, if I was asked to rank teams (I am certain many on this board are glad I do not), I would choose 4-0 Wabash ahead of 4-0 Wooster based on their respective performances this year.  I am sure that part of the reason that Woo is well ahead of Bash in the current polling is Woo's playoff history.  Wabash has something to prove before the voters are going to shift to their side. 

The solution for both Bash & Thiel: prove it to the voters one game at a time for the rest of the season.  Besides - D3 has a playoff system.  This makes the poll rankings fun - but much less of a make-or-break situation than it is in D1. 

Thiel has "learned how to win" over the past couple of years.  This year, in both the OWU & W&J games they let leads dribble away in the late going.  No doubt, Thiel took a big step forward this past weekend.  However, I think the next step they need to take is to develop more of a killer mentality - taking a lead on a solid team (please don't bring up Bluffton or Bethany) & then salting it away.  Please forgive the simile, but too often Thiel has been a bit like their Tomcat mascot - playing with their prey rather than killing it outright.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 02, 2005, 10:35:04 PM
I'm surprised Thiel didn't get a little more respect in this week's poll.  To beat a top 10 team on the road with the offensive weapons W&J has should have garnered a few more votes.  I'll be surprised if anyone left on W&J's schedule gives them a scare with the possible exception of TMC who has played great defense to this point.  

OldPhart: I agree with most of what you said however, it's hard to say Thiel doesn't have a killer mentality based on that game.  The game was a see-saw battle and both teams at different points in the game had leads and let them slip away.   The list of teams that are going to go into W&J and win easily or without a battle is very short. 

Hopefully Thiel won't have a letdown and takes advantage of the situation they haven't been in for a very long time.  After watching Saturday's game it looks like the coaching staff has the team focused and everyone's head in the right place.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 02, 2005, 11:15:44 PM
Pat,

Where is the respect?  Thiel goes toe to toe with the 6th ranked team in the Nation (at the time) according to D3football.com, and wins with a strong Defensive performance and a stingy run game all day and all you say is:

1.  WJ has the starters who have playoff expereince and won with them.
2.  Thiel's let down last year.
3.  And the lack of quality in Thiel's opponents so far.

No positive comments about the game at all?  I understand the hesitation with the voters, but Pat you did not have one good comment about Thiel spanning from last year, to this year, or in the game on Saturday.  Something is wrong with that and heres why!

1.  Yes, WJ does have the experience and we can not take that away from WJ, but how about kudos to a Thiel team that went into rowdy, Legendary, Cameron Field on thier largest crowd ever for homecoming and come away with the Victory.  Lets just start with the 5 picks Thiel's D had, and was the most of Edwards career in a game.  He had only thrown 2 all season before that game.  Where is the repsect? 

2.  "The let down to Buff State Last year", or could we reflect on last year at this time they were down 14-0 to WJ in the first quarter just like on Saturday, but on Saturday they had a year of maturity, intensity, focus, and leadership underneath them to fight through adversity, and that is why I believe that let down will not happen this year.  

How about that 1 year of maturity so far?  Sametime this year and last year and the team has grown immensly, but you want to point out the negative once again.

3.  You want to talk about steller opponets in Blufton and Bethany.  One bethany is a PAC foe and they have no choice but to play them.  How about WJ's opponets so far this year.  Without Thiel's 4-0 start WJ's opponets combined record is a 2-12 compared to Thiel's 5-11 without WJ.  Obviously no better.

4.  Yes, the voters are not stupid Pat, but obviously Thiel's early season foes have faired better than WJ's.  

5.  OWU has not gotten a vote all year yes, but when did Hanover, E&H, Tri State, or Allegheny?  I didn't think so...

Pat give me my karma points back and Tack on minus 4 for you!!!
DO IT!  

Am I going over the deep end with this post or is it on the money? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2005, 11:17:18 PM
I think if you look at the front page of D3football.com (http://www.d3football.com) and see who the lead photo is of you can find positives and respect. Don't be ridiculous. Spare me the endless babbling.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 02, 2005, 11:23:08 PM
Pat,

Your the best Pat....I appreciate the Karma then i know i did a good job!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 03, 2005, 12:12:00 AM
In the three years of D3football.com having a Top 25, a top 10 team has lost to an unranked Division III team (during the regular season) 14 times:


YearWeekLosing Top 10 SchoolWinning Unranked SchoolUnranked School's Rise in Votes (Rank)
20033#8 Trinity, TXPomona-Pitzer0 (-) to 30 (26)
20034#8 Bridgewater, Va.CNU0 (-) to 61 (25)
20035#5 RowanNew Jersey2 (40) to 104 (22)
20037#9 Brockport St.Ithaca21 (33) to 134 (22)
200310#4 Mary Hardin-BaylorEast Texas Baptist10 (36) to 107 (23)
20041#7 Bridgewater, Va.McDaniel0 (-) to 32 (32)
20043#5 WartburgBuena Vista0 (-) to 0 (-)
20045#8 Montclair St.Cortland St.0 (-) to 0 (-)
20049#5 CapitalOhio Northern20 (34) to 145 (21)
20049#4 WheatonCarthage2 (45) to 109 (23)
200410#10 UW-Eau ClaireUW-Stout0 (-) to 10 (39)
20054#10 SalisburyMontclair St.0 (-) to 0 (-)
20055#7 Ohio NorthernJohn Carroll0 (-) to 7 (43)
20055#6 Wash. & Jeff.Thiel4 (42) to 104 (22)

So to those out there complaining that Thiel isn't getting respect for their win over W&J this past weekend, keep in mind that the Tomcats made the fifth most dramatic jump in votes over the past three years.

But some "good" news for both Thiel and W&J ... of the 11 top 10 teams that lost in either 2003 or 2004, six still made the playoffs.  Of the 11 schools that upset those top 10 teams, four made it to the postseason ... with three of the four being the #2, #3, and #6 most dramatic jumps in votes - E.T.B. (2003), Ithaca (2003) and Carthage (2004).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 03, 2005, 12:17:36 AM
I failed to mention that Thiel's jump from "#42" to #22 is the biggest since D3football.com has conducted a poll.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ric on October 03, 2005, 12:18:19 AM
Kid man I don't know what we'd do without you but you have way too much time on your hands. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2005, 12:18:56 AM
Ric gets an applaud from me for getting rid of Bart Simpson. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ric on October 03, 2005, 12:20:39 AM
You didn't like Bart? LOL
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 03, 2005, 12:22:47 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2005, 12:18:56 AM
Ric gets an applaud from me for getting rid of Bart Simpson. :)

But I'm going to miss the five posts in a row on the fantasy thread (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=3739.0) with Bart's rear being exposed.  :o
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ric on October 03, 2005, 12:24:13 AM
Here hold on I got a good one for you ...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2005, 12:24:43 AM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on October 03, 2005, 12:22:47 AM
But I'm going to miss the five posts in a row on the fantasy thread (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=3739.0) with Bart's rear being exposed.  :o

Speak for yourself.  :-\
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ric on October 03, 2005, 12:27:06 AM
How's that? I call him Super Ric ... LOL
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ric on October 03, 2005, 12:28:29 AM
Actually I like the team one better, gonna change it back.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2005, 12:29:32 AM
Preferable to Bart, either way.

The team will look better if you crop your original as a square. The board forces it to fit a 64x64 box, I think.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ric on October 03, 2005, 12:31:49 AM
Thx for the info -- if you didn't like Bart you should have told me I put it up and kinda forgot about it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2005, 12:33:16 AM
What, and subject myself to more smiting? :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 03, 2005, 12:33:31 AM
Pitt & Cleveland

Quit complaining and enjoy the win. Take a look at what's happened with the poll numbers. These teams aren't ranked arbitrarily, but based on total points received by all voters. In week #4 W&J had 478 points amassed now they got smacked down to a mere 185 points. They lost a whopping 293 points from a 3 point loss to an unranked team (and rightly so).

Take a look at the votes Thiel has received since the start of D3.com polling........

Preseason poll................0 points
Wk 1 poll.........................0 points
Wk 2 poll.........................2 points
Wk 3 poll.........................3 points
Wk 4 poll.........................4 points
Wk 5 poll.........................104 points

The voters were slowly recognizing Thiel & now a quality win over a ranked team has catapulted them into the top 25. When you start out unranked you have a lot to prove & they have proved that they can beat a good (maybe even great) team. OWU is an average team @ 2-2, while both Bethany & Bluffton are cellar dwellars. W&J hasn't beaten anybody of any quality but their history earned them a preseason ranking based on 440 points. The fact the W&J got knocked down by so many points proves that some voters are questioning how good of a team W&J really is and if they were deserving of such a high ranking to begin with. Noone wants to stick their neck out to far only to be proven wrong if a team falters later in the season.

If Thiel keeps winning-their voting points will keep climbing to push them higher in the polls, but remember these polls don't mean sh*t come playoff time. If Thiel wins the PAC they will get in the playoffs where they control their own destiny.

You're not helping their image any by crying on the message board over meaningless rankings. Be a supportive fan and root & cheer for them but don't complain about things that you or they have no control over. If Thiel continues to focus on the things they can control (their own performance) then everything else will fall into place. I hope you guys aren't alumni because you're giving the school a bad name. Let the team do their talking on the field. All you're doing is giving other teams bulletin board material. I'm sure Leipheimer is telling his players not to buy into any hype so they stay focused on their next opponent and here you guys are begging for more hype. This story was front page of every regional sports section and is being viewed world-wide on this and other internet sites. How much more hype do you want? Your team won, Congratulations! Now they better focus on beating GCC because last week is already over for Thiel. Give it a rest and let them prepare for the next challenge.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 03, 2005, 12:38:23 AM
Kid,

Wow that was impressive. You snuck that very detailed history in on me while I was typing. I'm almost embaressed by my feeble stats to try to make these guys get it. How the h*ll did you find all this information?

I'm just glad there is finally some activity on this board. I was begining to think this board was "out of order".
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ric on October 03, 2005, 12:39:56 AM
You think people liked Bart? LOL
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 03, 2005, 12:58:09 AM
Can someone please explain this whole "Karma" thing to me. How does it keep going up and down, and who decides?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2005, 01:34:00 AM
It's in the football FAQ.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2005, 08:07:10 AM
Great research, Kid!

Thiel fans, you are on everyone's radar screen.  And IMHO, the way that the Top 25 works, is that you get your initial position, or in Thiel's case--jump, and then you move ahead of schools as others lose.  Since Thiel doesn't have another Top 25 on the schedule, they will have to ascend by not losing.

If Thiel finishes 10-0, then I anticipate they will have ascended to the Top 12-15 by playoff time, having climbed 2-3 spots per week as other teams above them have lost. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2005, 11:36:10 AM
Board,

All of you have made very good comments. I think you are right that we maybe went over board a little. Sorry about that. However, the thing that bothers me is that W&J is ahead of Thiel in the poll when they beat them fair and square on the field. Unlike D1, D3 has a playoff system which will ultimatly determine the National Champion. True Thiel has no playoff experience because of a let down last year. True W&J has playoff experience. Now let me guess since New England lost two games this year but won back to back Super Bowls they would be ranked higher than San Diego who beat them on Sunday because of thier past??? I don't think so.

All in all this was a great win for the Tomcats. Your are 100 percent right that if no let down occurs that Thiel will move up in the poll. The board made some very good points about thier jump being big which is a sign of respect. I apologize for jumping on the board I just found it puzzling to why Thiel was not ranked above W&J when they beat them on the field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2005, 11:38:38 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2005, 09:44:33 PM
All things aside, W&J still has starters who have started in playoff games and won them. Those kids are a part of this team and you can't push that aside that easily.

If I were Thiel I'd be worried about having a letdown like the one at Buff State last year.

And don't kid yourself -- Bluffton and Bethany are not stellar opponents either. No voter is stupid enough to think that. Ohio Wesleyan has not gotten one vote all year.

W&J did not play any stellar opponents either.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 03, 2005, 12:21:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2005, 08:07:10 AM
Since Thiel doesn't have another Top 25 on the schedule, they will have to ascend by not losing.

Anyone out there think that TMC would climb into the ranking if they win against Frostburg and Anderson?   I know I am looking far into the future and there is no guarantee that either TMC or Thiel will continue their winning streaks until their matchup on October 29th. 

Any Thiel players out there - stop reading this thread & go back to getting ready for GCC this Saturday.  Of course - stay on top of your classes too, midterms are coming up.  :P
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 03, 2005, 12:33:58 PM
Pitt,

Why do you care what the h*ll pollsters think or who W&J has played now that you've finally beaten them? You're ruinning your team's hard earned victory with your babbling. From where Thiel came from (the bottom of the land fill as recently as 5-6 years ago) - you guys finally exploded through the glass ceiling to the top of the D3 world. Be happy and move on. Take the high road and let this matter rest with the results on the field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 03, 2005, 12:51:51 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 03, 2005, 11:36:10 AM
Board,

All of you have made very good comments. I think you are right that we maybe went over board a little. Sorry about that. However, the thing that bothers me is that W&J is ahead of Thiel in the poll when they beat them fair and square on the field. [...]

Of the 14 times (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=3829.msg376966#msg376966) where an unranked Division III school defeated a top 10 team, only once did the unranked team jump above the top 10 team the rankings the week following the upset.

In 2003, Ithaca went from "33rd" to #22 ... while Brockport St. dropped from #9 to #24.  But the only reason that happened, so it looks, is because Ithaca was already fairly high in vote total and really jumped only 11 spots in the rankings (the smallest jump of the 14 times).

How far Thiel moved up and W&J moved down is par for the course after an upset (at least in the D3football.com poll it is).

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2005, 08:07:10 AM
Great research, Kid!
[...]

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 03, 2005, 12:57:02 PM
The better team SATURDAY won the game.  Period.  Now, with all due respect to Saturday's winning team, let us not forget:

W&J turned the ball over four times in regulation, one of which was returned immediately for points, another ultimately led to points.

And despite that, Kyle Sidebotham was within three yards left, and 6 yards short from 52 of winning the game in regulation.

Thiel has come lightyears from where they were.  This is not a surprise to us at WJPA.  We've seen how close the Tomcats have been to celebrating a win of this magnitude for several years.  And they did what no Thiel team in 24 years had done--win AT W&J.  But before the celebration spills over into Engraving the National Championship trophy, take a deep breath and realize:

1)  There is a lot of football left, for everyone.
2)  Given the geographic restrictions on NCAA, these two could well meet again in a game even more meaningful to the BIG picture.

Congratulations to the Thiel family.  And take this advice from someone that's been around the NCAA Football playoff scene for more than 20 years for what it's worth: Take care of business in front of you, and everything else will take care of itself.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2005, 01:29:51 PM
QuoteAnyone out there think that TMC would climb into the ranking if they win against Frostburg and Anderson?   I know I am looking far into the future and there is no guarantee that either TMC or Thiel will continue their winning streaks until their matchup on October 29th. 

Oldphart, I don't think that a win over a #22-25 Thomas More will help Thiel, because a #16 Thiel (that week's hypothetical ranking) ought to defeat a #22 TMC. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2005, 01:33:08 PM
Cartel,

I saw the play when our LB caught the RB at the 4 yard line.  Our LB's our fast, fast, fast.....but this particular one used to be a DB.  It was athletic ability and the desire to hustle which helped him walk down the Waynesburg RB....imagine how that RB reacted to being walked down....

On to the fans of Waynesburg crying about officiating.  Granted I am a TMC former player, alum and supporter but there was nothing wrong with the officiating.  Waynesburg fans were VERY frustrated their offense couldn't move the ball (take out that play and what did they have?) and were looking to assign blame.  

Officiating was very fair, and they did a great job of keeping order.  There was a lot of "jawing" going on and multiple personal fouls on both teams being called...along with a punch thrown by a Waynesburg player.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2005, 01:41:53 PM
BTW,

I don't want the Saints to be ranked.  I want this team to continue flying under the radar..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 03, 2005, 01:48:22 PM
Good points bobgregg, still a lot of season left.  Should be fun watching TMC, W&J and Thiel battle in the coming weeks.  

You'll probably have to forgive the Tomcat faithful for getting overly excited about last week's win and about being ranked in the top 25.  Tomcat fans have endured some pretty thin years and I know I personally was on the ugly end of some 50 and 60 point beatings by the presidents, so the fact that Thiel has been competitive and has the program going in the right direction is very exciting.  - Not a position the Thiel faithful quite frankly have been in for a long time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 03, 2005, 02:04:08 PM
Dutch,

I was NOT saying don't be excited by a win against a program that had used Thiel as a doormat for years.  By all means, celebrate.

But don't let the facts of Saturday's win escape evaluation either.  To do so could set you, and the Tomcat faithful, up for a big letdown later in the year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 03, 2005, 02:26:09 PM
bobgregg, I know what you meant and I agree with everything you've said.  I was just making the comment in general.  There are a lot of games left to be played and any team with aspirations of a conference championship or playoffs has to take care of business the rest of the way and not have let-downs against opponents they will be favored to beat. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 03, 2005, 02:44:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2005, 01:29:51 PM
QuoteAnyone out there think that TMC would climb into the ranking if they win against Frostburg and Anderson?   I know I am looking far into the future and there is no guarantee that either TMC or Thiel will continue their winning streaks until their matchup on October 29th. 

Oldphart, I don't think that a win over a #22-25 Thomas More will help Thiel, because a #16 Thiel (that week's hypothetical ranking) ought to defeat a #22 TMC. :)

IF, and it is a huge if, Thiel wins out,  I would hope that a win over a ranked TMC would put them in a better position for seeding for the playoffs.  As far as rankings go, it couldn't hurt.  At the same time I recognize that when the team is ranked, it gets a target painted on its back. I understand  SaintsFAN view about TMC "flying under the radar."  But at 4-1, even without a win against a ranked team, the Saints can no longer operate in "stealth" mode.

My take on ranking is that while it is fun, anyone would rather see their team go 5-0 in the postseason than worry about where they end up in the top 25 during the regular season.  If a win over a ranked TMC would help Thiel - remember I am looking at this all based upon the huge IF that Thiel wins out - get a better seed I really could care little about what it does for the rankings.  Let wiser heads guide me here - are wins against top 25's taken seriously in the seeding?  ???

All that said - anyone think that a 6-1 TMC might break into the top 25 (whether or not SaintsFAN wants it)? ???

Yeah, I know this is all hypothetical with lots of football to be played  & "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts - we would all have a merry Christmas"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 03, 2005, 02:59:46 PM
BTW - Before SaintsFAN volunteers - I have NO interest in whether or not anyone thinks that a 7-1 TMC will make the top 25.  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: professor on October 03, 2005, 04:11:58 PM
To those agonizing over a team's placement in the polls...The D3football.com and AFCA polls are meaningless when it comes time for Selection Sunday. For instance, take a team that wins its conference with a 6-4 record. No chance that team was ranked in any poll, but yet it still qualified for the playoffs. What the polls may do is provide some conversational fodder for potential Pool B and C teams. NCAA regional rankings will give a pretty good idea how selection committee is thinking
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 03, 2005, 04:29:49 PM
THAT'S why you're the professor, professor!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2005, 04:36:13 PM
Lets not talk about any new team in this league from the state of Kentucky.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 03, 2005, 04:41:55 PM
Saintsfan, Looks like TMC has a good defense.  Don't know much about there offense how much will they be affected by the starting QB going down?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 03, 2005, 05:00:35 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2005, 04:36:13 PM
Lets not talk about any new team in this league from the state of Kentucky.

I'm willing to extend the Ohio border 20 miles south for the purpose of discussing teams.  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2005, 07:33:36 PM
Board,

Again I am sorry for my comments. I over reacted and the board showed the correct facts about Thiel's jump in the poll. I apologize.

Thiel focus one game at a time and take of buisness this week vs GCC.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 03, 2005, 07:41:13 PM
Has Kentucky been declared a state?   ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2005, 07:44:01 PM
Pat and Splitskin,

I never made a comment about the publicity that Thiel has received from D3 or the ranking.  I think its unbelievable and well deserved what they have accomplished. Because of D3 they are being heard of nationally.  D3 does the best job out of any other website for D3 news and thats why I am here.  I strictly pointed out the comments that you made in your post about the game and overall opponets of WJ and Thiel.  There was no respect from YOU in that post.  Not once did I say a word about the ranking.  I responded to your thoughts on the game.  Those were some great stats the rest of the d3 guru's came up with, and like I said before I never said a peep about the lack of rank or publicity because it truly is touching.

I was intrigued by your comments on the game.  Do not put in me in the same light as everyone else.  There was nothing positive to say in your post about the victory and thats all I was trying to share with everyone else.  They went into a rowdy house and beat a talented team, and you want to talk about last years let down??  That my friend is dissapointing so I responded.  I would love to give you some Karma points Pat.  Can I do that or no?? haha
 Tack on some more karma Pat for me!  I know its coming because its your way or the highway! jk 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2005, 07:56:17 PM
Saints Fan,

Thanks for the feedback sounds like there is a real tough D down in the state of Kentucky, and I am sorry to hear about your QB.  Never do you want to hear of an injury to anyone, but it is a contact sport and that does unfortenatly have to happen from time to time.  Goodluck to you guys the rest of the way! 

Still though about that play: Abels has some wheels and to see anyone come from behind to tackle anyone after they have broken away is quiet the site.  Thanks again.....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 03, 2005, 08:18:04 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2005, 07:44:01 PMTack on some more karma Pat for me!  I know its coming because its your way or the highway! jk 

Have you seen Animal House?  If you have have, you should no doubt recall the phrase: "Thank you sir, may I have another?"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2005, 08:22:43 PM
Old Phart,

Haha a Classic movie and line and so true in this forum!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2005, 08:48:30 PM
Want to know how to get some positive Karma?????


Kiss W&J's butt

another one bites the dust du du du another one bites the dust....another bad Karma point bites the dust

HAHA


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2005, 12:02:02 AM
Cleveland,

Another reason I think Waynesburg is classless was their coaches cheering the injury to Berkley (QB).   FYI (and if Waynesburg is looking for any tips on how to handle an injury time out) when a player is hurt on either team, the Saints take a knee for that player.  Just when I think I've seen it all....

About the play....that RB does possess a motor, I still can't believe what I saw....on top of athleticism and speed that play epitomizes the way the Saints play ball---passionately and all out.  I don't care if Saints haven't played 'the top PAC teams'--My feeling is thats the very reason they have played well in league play when they were picked to finish 5th.  Keep in mind this is a young team.  They are still learning how to win....

Back to being under the radar...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 04, 2005, 07:38:50 AM
Saints,

I like what I am hearing from down South with your football team.  Young and passionate football players who are gellin like Majellen!  Defence wins championships and I am guessing this team will hang tough every Saturday.  Waynesburg is still a team to watch out for with the athletes they have.  Their QB (Dumm) is now graduated but with all the different RB's and receivers they can throw at you in their packages they are always a legit threat to take one to the house on any play.  Waynesburg will be ready to play Saturday and could be a possible spoiler down the road to Thiel or WJ.  Be prepared for those boys because speed kills!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2005, 08:14:31 AM
Cleveland,

Re:  Waynesburg

I'll give you that they have some athletes on that team, but the offense is horrible.  They call the same plays over and over again....its a quick hitch or a quick out by one of their quick receivers.  He then catches the ball and tries to juke.   After the defense adjusts and doesn't give so much cushion, they move the WR in motion across the field and try to throw this pass quicker---which their QB can't do.  He started killing worms at that point.

Thats it thats the pass pro.

The RB is good and he runs it hard. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 04, 2005, 09:44:09 AM
Saints,

Thanks for the info it sounds like Waynesburg really is missing the Stud QB from last year who can make those and other passes look easy.

Is there any early predictions for this weeks games in the PAC?

GCC at Thiel?

WJ at Westminster?

Waynesburg at Bethany?

TMC is off this week...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 04, 2005, 10:56:44 AM
Here's my early prognostication.

Thiel 35 - GCC 20 - Rivalry game, GCC will give Thiel there best shot but the mercer county cup will remain in Greenville. 

WJ 55  - Westminster 10 - WJ will be looking to take out some frustration from last weeks loss and Westminster has struggled to put points on the board. 

Waynesburg 28 - Bethany 14 Abels should be able to run the ball against the Bison De.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 04, 2005, 11:24:48 AM
Also in the analysis of the games is there any predictions about single game performances that we can possibly see out of certain players for each game this week?

Lets have some fun with this!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 04, 2005, 01:29:50 PM
Cleveland,

My predictions for this weeks game are:

Thiel wins 28-0 over GCC

W&J will put up 50 on Westminster

Waynesburg 31- 7 over Bethany

Thomas More is off but will have eyes on Thiel and W&J as they will like to continue to make their statement in the PAC.

Good Luck PAC teams

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on October 04, 2005, 01:30:59 PM
I dont know if the Thiel kicker from last year would have been able to make that field goal in OT--what do you think clevelandcartel??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2005, 01:31:58 PM
I'm surprised you guys haven't started ripping into the coaches' poll. :)

http://www.d3football.com/notables.php?date=2005-10-04
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2005, 01:56:55 PM
TMC's Carlisle will win DPOY for this season...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 04, 2005, 02:01:10 PM
Because Thiel doesn't have history as a top program it looks like most voters are assuming W&J isn't nearly as good as they thought rather than believing Thiel can beat a top 10 team at this point.  As has been pointed numerous times recently the polls really are nothing more than a topic for discussion.  As long as you keep winning you will continue to gain respect.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 04, 2005, 02:05:27 PM
PAC ALUM:

If any kicker misses from 26 yards out he does not deserve his job....

To Dutch: Keep winning is the best remedy for anything!


TO Pat:  What do I have to do to have some positive karma points????  ;D

and Also i want some more predictions out of this board!!!  Burgh Boy Saints Old Phart, and the MAn the Myth and GURU Pat Coleman And PACalum
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2005, 02:40:04 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2005, 01:31:58 PM
I'm surprised you guys haven't started ripping into the coaches' poll. :)

Can you believe W&J dropped that far???  Still more evidence that the D3 poll is SO much more knowledge based.....

How's THAT, PAT?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2005, 02:52:41 PM
Just want to make sure the whiners from Thiel realize who has the better poll. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 04, 2005, 03:06:30 PM
HAHA

Pat you guys are the best around!!!

Come on I deserve some positive Karma for that comment
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 04, 2005, 03:14:16 PM
Never again will I challenge the depth of knowledge and insight of those who bestow upon us their comprehension of Divison 3 football weekly in the form of the D3 poll.  Clearly the  AFCA is clueless.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PACalum on October 04, 2005, 05:12:28 PM
Cleveland,

My predictions for this weeks games are:

Thiel over GCC 35-7

W&J over Westminster 49-0

Waynesburg over Bethany 24-13
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2005, 10:04:47 PM
Pat,

I have a quick question for you.  Hopefully you don't take this the wrong way--you do a great job with this site. 

How are the teams of the week picked after they are nominated?  I was just curious---I don't know if the players have to be nominated.  I'll be honest--I was thinking I would have seen Mark Carlisle or another member of TMC's team could have been on there through 5 weeks..

Maybe you've told me before but I don't remember...:)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2005, 11:16:30 PM
The Team of the Week is determined by staff from nominations by coaches and SIDs. Thomas More has nominated its share of players (two in the past three weeks), they just haven't made the cut.

I can't tell you too much about how we select them specifically, because it depends on the week and the position. I can tell you I do tend to favor solo tackles as a measurement on defense because those are a lot less subjective -- assisted tackles seem to vary depending on the spotter/scorekeeper.

That's about all I have.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2005, 06:57:24 AM
Thanks Pat.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 05, 2005, 09:53:59 AM
Predictions for the Week:


WJ vs Westmin:  Edwards and the Crew take all out all aggression on Westmin with a dominating offensive performance.  Edwards throws for 5 TD's while Krepps takes a Punt to the house and catches 2 TD in the game.  Zitzelberger has a game on the ground rushing for over 120 yards and a score.  Westmins Buggey gets shut down for the entire day but will pick up 45 yards on the ground.

Final Prediction: 59-6

GCC vs Thiel:

Tomcats get back at it this week with a 38-9 victory over GCC and hold on to control of the CUP.  Satterfield throws for 248 and 2 touchdown passes.  While the ground game leads the way with Minton and Helmans rushing for a total of 190 and a pair of scores.  Throw in a field goal by the confident Koyl  and the game is in hand for the Tomcats, but the Wing T could pose some fits for the team to start, but GCC will manage to run for just around 90 yards and pass for over 130 in a controlled game for the Tomcats.

Final Prediction:  38-9

Waynesburg vs. Bethany

The yellow jackets get back on track with a solid showing against a improving Bethany Bisons.  Ables runs for over 165 with a couple of scores.  Hunter and Hawkins speed is too much for Bethany to handle they each have break out games with a score each and over 100 yards receiving for one of those too.  Can you say Dante Hall???? Thats exactly what they bring to the table!  The D shuts down Bethany for the most part but Bethany will score by the means of Milton Joyner.  The young sensation is is exciting to watch once the ball gets into his hands. 

Final Prediction:  42-13

TMC is off and a well rested defence will be back next week to wreck Havoc on their next victoms!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 05, 2005, 10:15:21 AM
It doesn't pertain to the PAC, but there is a good article in the USA Today about the Willamette head football coach who was born with no hands.  Pretty inspiring story. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 05, 2005, 10:30:24 AM
On the topic of No hands....

Did anyone see the wrestler from an Iowa highschool who was born with no hands or legs on CNN Larry King live two nights ago?  The young man lost 135 matches in a row, but was constantly improving and learning how to use his body to his advantage.  His senior year he won 35 matches and placed in the top ten in the state.  He has wrote a book that has been ready by superstars such as Troy Aikman and Arnold.  It is supposely a top seller right now, unfortenatly I can not remember the name of the book, but it was just amazing to see this young man wrestle without the extremities that we are born with.  Not only is he a winner already in life, but he continues to inspire everyone around him.  Good Book from what I hear wish I could remember what it was called.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 05, 2005, 01:36:32 PM
Quote from: Dutch12 on October 04, 2005, 02:01:10 PM
Because Thiel doesn't have history as a top program it looks like most voters are assuming W&J isn't nearly as good as they thought rather than believing Thiel can beat a top 10 team at this point.  As has been pointed numerous times recently the polls really are nothing more than a topic for discussion.  As long as you keep winning you will continue to gain respect.

Ding! Ding! Ding!!!

We have a winner!

I learned the hard way by opening my mouth.

You are right.

That is why I am not saying a single word about the coaches poll.

The Tomcats will fly under the radar and finish the season 10-0 as long as they can continue to take care of buisness week after week and do not have a let down.

Focus on Grove City this week men!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 05, 2005, 05:25:13 PM
Quote from: Dutch12 on October 05, 2005, 10:15:21 AM
It doesn't pertain to the PAC, but there is a good article in the USA Today about the Willamette head football coach who was born with no hands.  Pretty inspiring story. 

I wanted to be a WR but coach said I had "no hands".  ;D  Yeah - I know it is bad taste but I couldn't resist.

On a more serious note, I went to school with a fellow who had no arms - just "flippers" - I guess that dates me to the thalidomide era.  Anyway, he was on the soccer team at Alma with me - until he sprained an ankle.  Considering he took notes, performed personal hygiene, and everything else with his feet - he decided that soccer was just too dangerous for his personal/academic health.   Great guy with a great sense of humor - he didn't even lose his cool with his "friend" who set him up for an appointment with the Marine recruiter.  >:( Swear to God it wasn't me - I couldn't risk letting my negative karma leap into double (maybe triple) digits.  ;) 

Now, I will get back to AMERICAN football: I think the picks are easy, but the scores are a bit less so.  If this board eventually generates enough pick 'em interest to spawn a daughter board I would suggest that we might think about appointing a spreadmeister similar to what Wally is doing for the NCAC.  When everyone expects Thiel/W&J/Waynesburg to win this week a spread would make it so people would really think through their picks.

All this said - here are my two cents - with a far less detailed play-by-play than some of my board colleagues:

Thiel 42 GCC 7.  Since Thiel has yet to be held below 38 by any defense this yearI question why others think that GCC will be the first one?  Do you think everyone will be too tired to put up points this week?  Nah - its homecoming AND its GCC.  I think there will be plenty of motivation to keep piling it on.  GCC is going to try to run - Tomcats will be up to the challenge. 

W&J 49 Westminster 7.  Yes, I know I see the TC GCC game with nearly the same numbers.  I don't think that W&J is going to go out of their way to put up points.  But they can and should put up points on Westmin.

Waynesburg 28 Bethany 14 - Abels will run and Bethany will try to keep up.

Geneva 28 Malone 21 - Not really interesting to us this year - but since Geneva is part of the PAC I'll keep track of them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Riddell on October 05, 2005, 05:51:47 PM
I've been watching this Thiel hype for a while now, and I belive it's time to comment.  I was an observer at the Thiel v. W&J game last week and was struck by several factors.  First, it's obvious that the Thiel team is determined.  This was apparent from the moment they took the field; I quite literally felt the energy.  I'm not sure what the chair in the end zone and the contact with the helmet was all about, but whatever it symbolized, it worked!  Second, the coaching seemed unshakable.  Finally, the Thiel fans were "alive"!  It is obvious to me that they love this team!  I look forward to the Grove City game on Saturday.  This is the team to watch...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 05, 2005, 09:56:45 PM
Old Phart,


Funny stuff about your buddy from school.  And also my dentist is from Alma and the guy love thats school.  When I was looking at colleges the guy would send me info on Alma!!!  Anyways  great predictions for this week, and I am deifnetly interested into a pick em board. 

Riddell,  the Thiel Fans are passionate for their team.  If you ever go to their home games they are one of the most exciting atmospheres in the PAC and also draw huge crowds for all their games.  The school and staff does a tremendous job in gettting everything prepared and ready for the incoming crowds!

Joke of the Day:

A turtle is walking through a New York City alley minding his own business till a bunch of snails come up to him.  They beat him up and take his money off of him.  Hours late the police come for questioning.  They cop says to the turtle, "What happened?"  Turtle replied, "I dont remember it all happened so quickly!"

That was in the new FHM not bad.....

10-4

Name this Movie....

Sorry boys the bakery is closed!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 05, 2005, 09:58:08 PM
P. Coleman,

Any pregame prediction on the games for the PAC this weekend?  Everyone has added their input and now we need yours.

It is not official till the GURU puts in his 2 cents......

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 05, 2005, 10:13:42 PM
I know you're new to the board ... at least this time around ... but there's a reason why you haven't seen me predict games on any of the conference boards. I don't want to be perceived as having a reason to root for or against any particular team, and you know full well there are people who would think that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 05, 2005, 11:37:54 PM
Cleveland,

Its American Pie

Good Luck this weekend fellas!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 06, 2005, 07:43:45 AM
Pitt,

Nice try but it is Van Wilder...When he makes the special doughnuts with the help of his Bulldog.  Pittsburgh folks were never the brightest from what I saw!  JK  Atleast you know how to play football and have a winning NFL team down there, but I will say this after watching the Montour football team on ESPN I am kinda in shock when I first saw them practice.  There is noway this team will win one game because they looked aweful.  They have been doing alright and are playing with alot of confidence and heart.  They better not lose their stud running back either!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 06, 2005, 07:52:26 AM
Pat,

Understandable but unfortenate because the public loves to inquire and talk about who the analysts picked to win the games. 

With the additions of Geneva and St. Vincent to the conference in 2007 that conference will be at 9 strong and the teams will only be open to 1 non conference game?  Is that how it would work or would the scheduling be more like the Big Ten and have possible discrepencies like the year Iowa and Ohio St never played each other and both went undefeated in the conference and well on their ways to big bowl games. 

Pat, do you know how D3 conferences handle this situation?

Does it vary by conference?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 06, 2005, 08:45:22 AM
Cleveland,

You are right it is Van Wilder I was actually posted the wrong movie. Van Wilder is my favorite movie so I should have nailed that one.


What about this movie quote:
"Mr. Davis will you go to the prom with me?"

Steelers face a tough one vs a very good SD team this Monday Night. I am curious to see how they respond after losing to New England.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 06, 2005, 09:03:43 AM
Montour has won one game, if you can believe that. 

I have watched about twenty minutes of it, and I would be pretty irritated if my son/daughter were involved with the team or worse, the cheerleaders.

They had the Miami Heat cheerleaders in the last episode, and although the male in me didn't mind, would not have been thrilled to see them gyrating around in the gym while the students were watching. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 06, 2005, 09:17:34 AM
I haven't seen any of the Montour show yet.  Sounds like it was a pretty bad idea in retrospect.

Looking forward to the Thiel - GCC game this weekend for homecoming.  Hopefully the tomcats will keep it rolling against the GCC wing T. - Definately will be a different from what they had to defend against last weekend with W&J's no huddle multiple receiver attack.  Should be a great atmosphere.

Go Tomcats!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 06, 2005, 09:18:35 AM
Burgh Boy,

You are exactly right!  The cheerleaders are alot better than the Football Team!  I did not mind seeing that myself either, but honestly without their runningback Dick and the Ray would have no hope of turning that program around.  Its entertaining but interesting to see if those kids and coaches can produce a winning team.  How about one of their coaches who got suspended for a racial slur??  Unbelievable! 

On the positive side for them their cheerleaders have more trophys than probably all sports combined at that school!!

And Pitt: I have no clue you stumped me on that one....

Steelers do have a tough test against a rolling San Diego team.  I am looking forward to that Monday Nite game compared to the Cardinals and Niners who are battling it out for the 1 & 2 picks in next years draft!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2005, 09:54:17 AM
If you have nine teams in the league that means everyone plays eight conference games and you have two non-conference games to schedule. I am sure the PAC would play a full round-robin.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 06, 2005, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 06, 2005, 07:52:26 AM
With the additions of Geneva and St. Vincent to the conference in 2007 that conference will be at 9 strong and the teams will only be open to 1 non conference game? 

This probably belongs more in the General Football area, but It looks like the NCAC play 7 conference games in a 10 team conference.  Allegheny, for example, doesn't play Oberlin or Denison this year.  It is my guess that they do this so that there is a chance to tune up before conference play and that the conference isn't won or lost on the basis of a weak early performance.  I'm not sure what they do for tie-breakers though.

A casual perusal seems to indicate that the NCAC is unique in this regard.  Anyone aware of another D3 conference that doesn't play the full round-robin? ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2005, 10:56:41 AM
Just the MAC, which has 11 teams. The NEFC plays a full round-robin within its seven-team divisions plus two crossover games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 06, 2005, 11:17:28 AM
Take into consideration the Wisconsin league in d3.  They do play two out of conference games, but then when they get into conference play they just knock each other in and out of the playoffs.  It is argueable one of the toughest conferences in D3.  There are so many teams and there is so much talent on those teams it will come down to who makes the least amount of mistakes, and who can capiltalize on those.  Most of the teams in the conference are all legitimate conference and playoff contenders.

Does anyone see the PAC becoming a powerful conference with 5 or 6 teams that are consistently challenging for the conference title, and are in the top 50 in the nation?  Interesting concept here!!!!

::)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 06, 2005, 11:31:27 AM
I certainly would like to see that happen.  I think just like now it will all come down to how well each team recruits.  Adding more teams hopefully would make it more competitive, but because Genava is an NAIA school and St. Vincent will be starting the program from scratch it could also dilute the talent pool for the existing PAC teams ( especially those in western PA) which will make recruiting even more important.  It will be interesting to see what kind of impact it will have. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 06, 2005, 12:45:53 PM
Re: Recruiting

While it is possible that the overall talent pool for the PAC will be diluted, I think the addition of programs in the area to be of limited significance.  I think the change will be that schools will recruit more often from outside of their traditional regional boundaries.  In fact this appears to be the case already at Thiel.

I check out Thiel's roster and notice that there are 9 team members from Florida.   Further, I note that doing a search for "Fl" (Florida) through the list of all D3 football schools turns up no hits.  I figure that Thiel has gone out of their way to recruit in Florida - where there appears to be plenty of football talent but no opportunity if you can't make it at a scholarship school.

I expect that there are other similar opportunities out there to recruit talented athletes who have little chance of making it in a scholarship based program - but still want to play.

Am I letting out a "secret" about Thiel recruiting by bringing this up?  I doubt it.  Besides, in a recruiting program it is frequently more important to be there, in the words of Nathan Bedford Forrest,  "the fuhstest with the mostest"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2005, 01:22:04 PM
Actually in a 9-team conference, you will play 8 conference games and have 3 dates to play the other 2 games.

The decision that several schools will face is what or whether to do with that non-conference game in weeks 7-11, when you have that obligatory open date that comes with an odd-member conference.

You may have enough options from other conferences, e.g., the ACFC, the ODAC, the USAC in the South Region, that you can fill those dates.   Or do you go out of region to find another team in a similar situation, an open date in an odd-membered conference? :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 07, 2005, 12:05:04 AM
OP,

Not sure where you did your "FL search", but I've seen a number of Florida kids on D3 rosters (especially in the OAC). John Carrol, for example has somewhere between 15-20 FL kids on their roster. That area is ripe but also being recruited very heavily by D3 programs. Not sure how much time the other PAC schools have spent there, but I know others bank on it for talent and numbers.

RE: St Vincent - What type of academic profile do they have? Can they get anybody in or are they an "upper tier" school? Anyone know what their niche majors are?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2005, 12:54:52 AM
I was confused, like you, especially since we had a front-page story earlier this week about a school in Minnesota which has a nice Florida pipeline as well.

Then I reconsidered the post and decided he meant there are no Division III schools themselves in the state of Florida, which is correct.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 07, 2005, 08:16:49 AM
Thanks Pat - your clarification is correct.  I went to the list of all D3 schools and did a quick search for Fl schools.  It would be an interesting study to do a nationwide roster analysis to see if there are other areas where schools are doing significant recruiting outside of what might be considered their "normal" recruiting area.  That said - I am not volunteering for the task.  My spouse accepts my addiction to football at the present level - I don't think I could spend significantly more time on football without incurring substantial legal fees. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 07, 2005, 08:20:11 AM
As long as we are on the subject of recruiting...  I attended and graduated from Thiel in the late 90's and watched many of Thiel's games from the stands at the field of Greenville High School during that time.  Thiel did not win a single PAC game during my studies there, and had to schedule teams like Oberlin and Bluffton to have that hope of getting one or two wins to avoid going winless.  I distinctly recall R.J. Bowers running for several hundred yards against us in every Thiel vs. GCC game, as if we only played eight guys on defense.  Can you imagine being the head coach of a college football team (admittedly Division III) and having to admit to kids that you are trying to attract to your school, "Yes, actually, we DO play on a high school field."  I still contend now (as I did at a student) that the single biggest factor that Thiel needed to become competitive in the PAC was to have their OWN field, on campus, to actually be able to play games "at home".  It says a lot to potential recruits when you're not willing to budget the expense to build and maintain your own stadium.  Not only does Thiel have their own stadium now, but the whole campus has gotten a major facelift over the last decade, and I'm sure that has helped in being competitive in recruiting student-athletes.  

Needless to say, I'm quite excited about the recent turnaround in the fortunes of Thiel football.  They need to keep their heads from getting too big over that big game last week, take these games one at a time, and win or lose, they've made Thiel alumni like me very proud!

Anyone else going to Greenville tomorrow?

GO CATS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 07, 2005, 09:51:31 AM
Ahha, now I see the light. Thanks Pat for pointing that out. OP, forgive me - you are correct...no D3 schools in the state of FL. Maybe you could open up a D3 school down there & call it "Old Phart College". You could field a great football team, you'd have name recognition, and maybe your wife wouldn't mind your addiction to what happens on the gridiron if it meant furthering your "small business" venture.

Although Thielfan makes a valid point about the value of an "on campus stadium", that seems to be only one example of Thiel finally making a "commitment" to it's football program. It seems they've assembled a great coaching staff & gave them the financiall resource to build a program. When you get a commitment from the top, everything else falls into place in just a matter of time.

Has Westminster made a bigger commitment to it's program with the regime change? When they hired Hand did they increase staff, budget, etc? Anyone out there in the know?

It will be interesting also to see what type of commitment Geneva & St. Vincent make to their programs with the recent jump to D3. I'd like to hear from some Geneva/St. Vincent supporters out there who have a sense of goals/intentions.

This conference has been getting steadily stronger over the last 5 years and it proves once again that competition, in all it's forms, is a positive thing as it forces others to make a commitment to get better or get left behind.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2005, 09:53:55 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 07, 2005, 08:16:49 AM
My spouse accepts my addiction to football at the present level - I don't think I could spend significantly more time on football without incurring substantial legal fees. ;

OldPhart,  just tell your spouse what the rest of us tell ours:


Yes, dear.  Anything you say, dear.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 07, 2005, 10:04:05 AM
With the exception of Thomas More, the PAC seems to be expanding by attracting teams from the NAIA.  What are some of the differences between NAIA and NCAA Division III?  I had heard that one of the reasons why Westminster joined the PAC was to be able to save on traveling expenses, not to mention some of the natural geographic rivalries which exist for them in the PAC.  I would guess that this probably is relevant for Geneva as well.

Another question... once you have gathered the necessary membership for your conference champion to be an automatic qualifier, what reason would there be to further expand membership?  The PAC currently stands at nine members, two more than the required seven, and I've heard rumors of further possible expansion (perhaps Seton Hill?)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 07, 2005, 10:11:25 AM
Thiel Fan,

I am heading to Greenville this weekend!

I heard that Seton Hill will be joining the conference. Not sure if it is 100% or just a rumor.

By the way my movie quote was from Varsity Blues.....Mr. Davis was the teacher/stripper who Billy Bob asked to go to the prom with.

Another great football movie which leads me to our newest poll. Please vote!
Title: Favorite Football Movie
Post by: PittTBCW on October 07, 2005, 10:13:46 AM
Let's see what movie is the best!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 07, 2005, 10:22:43 AM
Quote from: spliskin on October 07, 2005, 09:51:31 AM
Maybe you could open up a D3 school down there & call it "Old Phart College".
Naw - I would have to call it "Old Phart University" - I can just imagine the students singing of the virtues of "Old P.U." in the alma mater.   

Regardless - I think I will pass.  Football in November should always carry the distinct chance of snow.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 07, 2005, 10:25:43 AM
PITT:

Your movie line does not count due to wrong use of words.

It is Miss. Davis

Not Mr. Davis.

I highly doubt that Billy BoB wanted to take Mr Davis to prom instead of Miss Davis!

If your going to put it on here get your facts straight!

Once again Pittsburgh Folk never the brightest but a unique breed!

I will be at the game this weekend for the GCC vs Tomcats game, an then watching the Bucks go into Happy Valley and give it to the Nittany Lions!!!  

Hawk Whitner Scholegol Ginn, Holmes, and Troy will bring the house down!!!! GO BUCKS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 07, 2005, 10:26:32 AM
I like the way you think Old Phart!
Title: Re: Favorite Football Movie
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 07, 2005, 10:27:07 AM
Pitt your crazy man!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 07, 2005, 10:46:12 AM
TF,

It seems to me that further expansion accomplishes a few things:

1. Ease of scheduling. Even with 7schools in the conference, each school has to find 4 non-conference games per year. Not an easy task.

2. Ease on budget - Tied to scheduling - Geneva & St. Vincent require short travel due to geographic location (centrally located for most conference schools) (although adding TMC didn't accomplish anything there)

3. Strength in numbers - When PAC had only 5 members (pre-Westminster days), they looked on the verge of collapse. Perception is critical for recruiting. Now a 9 team conference looks like a solid future for the PAC where they can increase name recognition & potentially get 2 teams each year into the national playoffs.

4. Association with other schools- goes again to perception. Given their history I believe the PAC benefited by becoming associated with TMC. Although, I don't think that's true for Geneva & don't know enough about St. Vincent to have an opinion. I think Seton Hill has a reputation as a top tier school that would be attractive to PAC presidents but not positive about that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 07, 2005, 11:04:23 AM
Spliskin,

I am a firm believer in strength in numbers and by adding these schools into the PAC it definetly brings added strength.  Your right the 5 team conference did look weak and really put a burden on the PAC teams trying to make the playoffs, and also the ultimate view of the future for the PAC looked dim.  Now with Geneva and St. Vincent and a good possibility of Seton Hill the PAC's future is looking bright not only for football, but the other athletics, and also the diversity in academics.  The schools surroundings, majors, current upgrades, and the best financial package will play a huge in part into how these schools will be able to recruit.  Already teams are being sent to the same schools, but now there will be more school visits from the PAC than ever and the decisions will be tougher on students!

This also makes PAC play more exciting and tense to be around week in and week out  While you still have those two out of conference games, the teams will have to play more consistent football because of having to play an extra couple of conference games.  More concentration and consistency out of these teams will only help them be prepared for the playoffs and have a strong showing there also. 

Skys the Limit and I wish I could be playing in this conference in the next few years!!!!
Title: Re: Favorite Football Movie
Post by: PittTBCW on October 07, 2005, 11:50:29 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 07, 2005, 10:27:07 AM
Pitt your crazy man!


Just a little bit!!!


See you Saturday!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 07, 2005, 11:54:07 AM
Cleveland,

Sorry about the screw up on the quote.

When Cleveland beats the Steelers you can talk to down to PGHer's HAHA.

I believe Ginn is out for the Suckeyes as well.

Not a Penn State fan but think they will give a OSU a game in Happy Valley.

Go Tomcats!!!

Take care of buisness this week men!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 07, 2005, 11:56:04 AM
CC - I have heard ruminations about Seton Hill as well, but almost always with the caveat that Seton Hill wants to continue offering scholarships.  Heard anything besides the chatter on this that would lead you to believe they are a serious candidate for coming on board?  Ralph Turner suggested that Franciscan in Steubenville may be a candidate for the PAC.   Looking at Franciscan's website indicates they are definitely interested in D3.  As of now they have no football program, but maybe they would be willing to start one - fb is expensive, but does tend to attract alumni $$.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 07, 2005, 11:59:43 AM
Did I read the homepage for D3 football.com right???

A team is playing a doubleheader????

Northwestern (Minn.) is playing a 1 and 8 o clock football game?

Did they split teams or are they both at home or what is going on. I never heard of that. How does that happen. This has me asking alot of ?'s!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2005, 12:07:30 PM
Seton Hill did nothing but talk down on Division III from the moment they entered the pipeline to get into Division III two years ago. In fact, I got a nasty e-mail from someone in the athletic department saying, in essence, 'who told you we were looking at getting into Division III?' (The answer was, of course, "The NCAA." :)

However, in the past three or four months, it appears their stance has softened a bit. They actually said something nice about Division III in a newspaper article I read before the season starts. So who knows?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2005, 12:08:23 PM
Word just in:

W&J at Westminster now 1 pm kickoff.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2005, 12:10:17 PM
We've had that time on our site all along -- what had you guys believed it was?

About the doubleheader, I expect with Trinity Bible being one of the worst two or three teams in college football the starters won't play much in the afternoon game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2005, 12:15:10 PM
Pat,

1:30 from The Westminster schedule, the Westminster game notes, the most recent "streaming audio" release from Westminster, a direct email from Westminster.

The PAC game notes, the W&J game notes, the W&J schedule

That's all....

By the way, it was originally (May) listed for 1 pm, then all of a sudden it changed to 1:30 somehow.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2005, 02:26:29 PM
Ahh.

Well if nobody tells us it was changed in the first place then I guess changing back is pretty easy. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2005, 02:29:58 PM
I had 1 pm since March.

Then I got the releases, and saw 1:30.

Then I emailed Westminster and was told "W&J requested the change"

Then I called W&J and they said "then it must be 1:30"

Then the coaches talked.

Then W&J called and said it's now 1 pm.

Eh gads!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2005, 03:24:03 PM
This is when it pays to be blissfully ignorant. :)

Hope it doesn't blow up your broadcast schedule too much.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 07, 2005, 08:50:42 PM
This certainly "dates" me but my favorite football movie of all time is not given as an option..............."Brian's Song".
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 07, 2005, 10:00:53 PM
 
Quote from: spliskin on October 07, 2005, 08:50:42 PM
This certainly "dates" me but my favorite football movie of all time is not given as an option..............."Brian's Song".

For a second I thought you were going to make a plug for "Knute Rockne - All American"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 09, 2005, 01:03:00 PM
Lets take a look at how the predictions fared!

Westmin vs. WJ 

Prediction: 50- 6

WJ vs Westmin:  Edwards and the Crew take all out all aggression on Westmin with a dominating offensive performance.  Edwards throws for 5 TD's while Krepps takes a Punt to the house and catches 2 TD in the game.  Zitzelberger has a game on the ground rushing for over 120 yards and a score.  Westmins Buggey gets shut down for the entire day but will pick up 45 yards on the ground.

Actual 45-20

Krepps and Edwards hook up for 4 touchdowns two more than predicted for Krepps while Zitzelberger had his biggest game on the the ground of the year with 100 yards exactly.  Predicted was 126 yards.  Buggey was put on the shelf today but worse than orignally predicted which was 45, in actuality he had 14 on 11 rushes!! WOW!


GCC vs Thiel

Prediction" 38-9

Tomcats get back at it this week with a 38-9 victory over GCC and hold on to control of the CUP.  Satterfield throws fGCC or 248 and 2 touchdown passes.  While the ground game leads the way with Minton and Helmans rushing for a total of 190 and a pair of scores.  Throw in a field goal by the confident Koyl  and the game is in hand for the Tomcats, but the Wing T could pose some fits for the team to start, but GCC will manage to run for just around 90 yards and pass for over 130 in a controlled game for the Tomcats.

Actual 30-0

Satterfield threw for 212 and 1 TD to Chambers while Minton ran on the ground with 152 yards with 3 TDS.  Thiel had 198 total rushing yards while a 190 was predicted.  Koyl kicks a field goal and total yardage on the day for GCC was 146 compared to the 220 predicted.

Bethany vs Waynesburg

Prediction: 42-13

The yellowjackets get back on track with a solid showing against a improving Bethany Bisons.  Ables runs for over 165 with a couple of scores.  Hunter and Hawkins speed is too much for Bethany to handle they each have break out games with a score each and over 100 yards receiving for one of those too.  Can you say Dante Hall? Thats exactly what they bring to the table!  The D shuts down Bethany for the most part but Bethany will score by the means of Milton Joyner.  The young sensation is is exciting to watch once the ball gets into his hands. 

Actual: 38-21

Abels leads the way against the Bisons with 3 touchdowns and 162 yards rushing.  Close enough!  Bethany did move the ball effectively against the Jackets and the Sophmore Sensation Joyner caught 5 passes for 141 yards and a pair of TD's.  That is a huge fantasy day and a WR that I need on my team today! 
Not bad for a first time predictions 3-0 for the week.....Lookin forward to hearing everyones predictions again for next week!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 09, 2005, 08:23:56 PM
Pat,

Looking at the new D3football.com poll and wondering if Thomas More is on anyone/s radar. Or, since they don't have even 1 vote, maybe the question is: Why are they not on anyone's radar? They are nationally ranked in the top twenty in several defensive categories. Do you think their strength of schedule is what's keeping them off of the rankings?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 09, 2005, 08:56:15 PM
Yes, basically.

If they'd beaten Hanover they'd probably be getting votes. But they didn't, and the rest of the schedule is really backloaded (Thiel, W&J, MSJ in the final three games).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2005, 11:38:09 PM
Quote from: spliskin on October 09, 2005, 08:23:56 PM
...Thomas More ...Why are they not on anyone's radar?

spliskin:

loss to Hanover
close win over Waynesburg who pounded Hanover
top 25 teams beat Hanover soundly (W&J, Bridgewater)

They'll get their chance...Thiel, W&J, Mt.St.Joseph's
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 10, 2005, 08:39:48 AM
Good points. Thanks. I was looking at Hanover's OT win over MSJ in thinking that they were pretty good but forgot about their convincing losses.

SaintsFan,

How does the loss of the starting QB affect the Saints? Is there that much of a drop off between the 1st & 2nd QBs?

It looks like the defense has been winning games for them. Can this continue with a backup QB at the helm?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 10, 2005, 10:19:50 AM
My 2 cents - opening game performances aren't always the best barometer.  Thiel's secondary did not play well in the OWU opener - but they edged OWU nonetheless.  Adjustments have been made and the secondary looks MUCH better.  If W&J and Thiel had met in week 2, I think Edwards would have had a career day against the Tomcats.

I am not suggesting that voters disregard TMC's loss to Hanover.  However, IMO, a close opening day win OR loss should be discounted somewhat.  TMC obviously has something to prove yet.  They will certainly have an opportunity at the end of the season. 

spliskin - it was my impression from reading the TMC web site that the #2 QB wasn't that far behind the #1.  I'll be interested in SaintsFAN's take on it.  No doubt having the open date this past week was a godsend in bringing their #2 up to speed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 10, 2005, 10:51:42 AM
OldPhart,

I'm not basing it on the opening game loss to Hanover alone.

Let's look at the complete body of work.

5 point loss to Hanover (a team that W&J & Waynesburg both beat convincingly).

8 point win over Grove City, an improved squad but still one that Top 25 teams are going to throttle.

17-3 win over Westminster, a team that the other two Top 25 opponents (Ohio Northern & W&J) put up 45+ against.

6 point win (13-7) over Waynesburg.  This is a good win for the Saints but not one that's going to make ANY pollsters stand up and take notice.

Discounting the loss in the opener, the complete body of work doesn't put Thomas More in the Top 25

DISREGARDING the loss in the opener, the balance puts Thomas More ONLY in consideration of voters, and I don't see voters regularly disregarding any loss for teams that haven't achieved "National Program" status.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 10, 2005, 11:27:21 AM
bobgregg - Agree on all counts. The nature of text postings doesn't always allow for the complete context of one's views - even with smileys.  What I was trying to convey, more or less, is that TMC is still quite an unknown quantity.  No TMC win so far has shown any kind of offensive dominance.   Until the Waynesburg game,  I thought that the impressive defensive performance was a function of a lack of credible competition.  I thought that Waynesburg's running game would generate enough O to let them win comfortably. 

Wins over TMC's next opponents, Frostburg & Anderson, would still leave me wondering as to how potent a defense TMC really has. ???  Like you - I think that TMC has a chance to show voters that they are for real in their last three games.    However, it wouldn't be a shocker if TMC entered the last three weeks of the season 6-1 and left it 6-4.  I know that "Defense wins games ..." but only if you score some points of your own.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 10, 2005, 12:38:33 PM
Spliskin,

Their QB play should be fine...this team isn't looking to light up the scoreboard thats why you don't see the large margin of victory.  But you really do get into some trouble if you try to rate a team based on scoring margin and such....if so would it be OK to say that TMC is obviously doing something right defensively as they only gave up 3 against Westminster---a team that scored 20 on WJ?

Now I don't like comparing scores and whatnot so don't jump on me.....but in my eyes, even though these aren't impressive wins, they are still wins. 

We don't want all of this attention right now....I'd like to continue earning the respect of our opponents one game at a time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 10, 2005, 12:54:01 PM
Westminster did score 20 on W&J.

7 on 100-yard kickoff return after W&J 14-0.

7 on half-back option pass after W&J 31-7.

7 on fumble recovery in endzone after shotgun snap went over qb after W&J 38-14 (6:26 left in game).

Defense?  Westminster had 33 yards total after 3 quarters, including their only offensive touchdown.  Even give the 100 on k.o. return, that's 45 yards/quarter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 10, 2005, 01:56:27 PM
Bob,

I was surprised to hear that W&J gave up that many point to Westminster. I did not check it out but it makes sense after reading your post that Westminsters points came on special teams or trick play.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 10, 2005, 02:00:23 PM
I think we were all shocked to see that score but those scores were not on long sustained drives.  My prediction of Buggey being shutdown was not all that true either!  As Buggey threw for a TD and I believe ran the kickoff back 100 yards to the house.  Too bad they could not get him going on the run game, because then it might of actually been a game! 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 10, 2005, 02:03:01 PM
Any comments on the Bible team from Minnesotta winning two games on Saturday!  That is true preserverance and determination on their part and a huge congrats for being able to pull that off.  I do not know how good or bad the two teams they played but from what was said earlier the Bible school was not that great themselves.  Congrats again!  Maybe they should two games every saturday! 

Any more info on those two games would be great!!! Hint Hint Wink Wink Pat Coleman!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 10, 2005, 02:19:58 PM
Bob,

I was not attacking the point total WJ gave up to Westminster....but you guys are using scores to say whether or not a win was impressive or not.   

In my opinoin defense starts at the point a team kicks the ball, meaning the coverage teams are a part of defense because they determine field position....the only shady score I see there is the snap over the QB's head in garbage time. 

I see your point, Cartel.  But against a good defense, you aren't going to see sustained drives for TD's.  Lets face it, you need to suprise a good defense to score on them.

a win is a win though, and thats all that matters. 

I was simply responding to those saying TMC isn't impressive because of the scores of their games. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 10, 2005, 02:29:25 PM
Northwestern (Minn) beat Trinity Bible & then Macalester in the double header game you refer to & there is an extensive write-up linked through the "week 6 scoreboard" page.

Pat,

How much negative Karma does one need before being banned from the board? Just curious.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 10, 2005, 02:55:26 PM
Thanks for the reply...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 10, 2005, 02:57:15 PM
And we'll have more coverage on Northwestern's day in Around the Region, when our West region guy files.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 10, 2005, 02:58:06 PM
Anyone who watches the market around here?? FYI the market is down 34 points....the Dow is at 10263.33.  Bad few days but Oil is down to 60.60 maybe a little relief at the pumps....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 11, 2005, 11:37:05 AM
Roughly Half Way through the season.

How would you rank the PAC order of finish now???

1. Thiel
2. W&J
3. Thomas More
4. Waynesburg
5. Westminster
6. Grove City
7. Bethany

Player of 1/2 year: Edwards QB W&J

Coach of 1/2 year: J. Liepheimer

Potential Playoff Teams?

Thiel & W&J

With a loss to both of these and Hanover can Thomas More get in???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 11, 2005, 11:40:00 AM
Thomas More will not get in with 3 losses.  They have to win out to be assured of getting a playoff bid.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 11, 2005, 12:55:13 PM
I wouldn't be so bashful on your saints there Saints Fan.  With the opening of 4 more playoff slots this year, and the PAC finnally getting an automatic bid due to the 7 teams that can only help them than make things worse. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2005, 01:37:34 PM
The PAC will get its automatic bid in 2007.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Vince McMahon on October 11, 2005, 01:38:20 PM
The only way ANY team will get into the playoffs with three losses is if they win the Automatic Qualifier.  Even in the OAC's heyday, I don't remember any teams ever making it with more than 2.  

I don't usually post here.  I'm an Allegheny alum who played for coach Leip. Just like to check the PAC vibe once in awhile.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 11, 2005, 01:45:09 PM
With no Automatic Playoff Bid, the Saints NEED to win out. 

Not being hard on them, but the loss to Hanover means they need to be 9-1 to have a shot.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 11, 2005, 01:58:49 PM
Saints Fan,

I am not sure but I think you may be right. They need to be at worst 8-2 with a win over W&J or Thiel to get in.

What do you think would happen if:

TM finishes 8-2 (Loss to Thiel)
Thiel finishes 10-0
W&J finishes 8-2 (Other loss to TM)

Who would get in?

Or

Thiel goes (9-1) loss to TM
W&J goes (9-1)
TM goes (8-2) loss to W&J

What I am trying to say is that could a PAC team actually knock out a PAC team or actually help a 3rd PAC team get in.

Just curious!



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 11, 2005, 02:02:41 PM
Saturday, October 15

Thiel at Waynesburg* - 1:30 p.m.
Washington & Jefferson at Grove City* - 1:30 p.m.
Westminster at Bethany* - 1:30 p.m.
Frostburg State at Thomas More - 1:30 p.m.


This week's schedule....any predictions????


Here are mine!

Thiel 27 - 7 over Waynesburg
W&J 41 - 7 over GCC
Westminster 24 - 14 over Bethany
Thomas More 10 - 7 over Frostburg State


Good Luck PAC Teams!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 11, 2005, 02:33:36 PM
Here's my stab at predictions for the week

Thiel 40 - Waynesburg 10 : The Tomcats held Abels to 30 yards rushing last year.  They will take the running game away and make Waynesburg try to beat them through the air.

W&J 45 - Grove City 6 :  Grove City plays hard, but W&J has too many weapons for this one to be close.

Westminster 27 - Bethany 24 : Should be a close game, Westminster will run the ball with Buggey and Bethany will try to get the ball to their athletic wide outs.

Thomas More 20 - Frostburg 7 : TMC Defense will keep Frostburg in check and chip in with a defensive score.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 11, 2005, 03:17:13 PM
With only 32 bids to the playoffs available, and a good portion of those already accounted for due to automatic qualifiers from other conferences, I'm quite confident that there is NO way that the PAC will get three teams into the playoffs.  At this point, the only PAC team that has been strong consistently from year to year is W&J... leading me to believe that it will be very difficult even for TWO teams to get in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2005, 03:56:41 PM
Rest assured, with FOUR Pool B berths, and 1 of them going to Linfield (NWC), the PAC gets TWO at most.

Thiel is in at 10-0 or 9-1 (as long as the 1 isn't to Thomas More).

W&J is in if they run the table, regardless of what Thiel does.

Thomas More gets in ONLY if 9-1 (that means beating Thiel and W&J).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 11, 2005, 05:59:15 PM
I was not aware of the automatic bid not starting until 2007!  That definetly changes my perspective on things.  The PAC will not get three teams in the playoffs, and if Thiel and WJ are fortenate enough to win out they will both go.  But if WJ loses one more their playoff hopes might be fading out, and I believe that Thiel will have to lose a pair to be dethroned out of the top spot in the PAC and from the playoffs.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 11, 2005, 06:24:23 PM
Predictions:

WJ vs Grove City:  Krepps will have a field day against the Grove city defense with 2 touchdowns and one from a kickoff to the house!  Edwards will throw for over 340 and will have a total of 5 TD's with 2 to Krepps, 1 to Miller, Mendel, and Soeder.  Trimmer will have 13 tackles and an INT to go along with another solid Saturday for that Senior Leader.  Grove City will only manage a 120 yards total and be shut out two weeks in a row.  Well throw in a field goal by Sidebothem also hes an Ohio Native!  Aaron Margo will have one sack on the day for the GCC WOlverines!

Final Score: 52-0

Thiel vs Waynesburg
Great matchup!  Thiel dominates the run game once again and Abels is held to under 80 yards this time with a TD.  The passing game for the Yellow Jackets is hurting with Dumm graduating and they do not do much through the air either as Cobb is sacked 4 times and throws 2 picks to a hungry Thiel D! Hunter and Hawkins each catch 3 passes a piece but are held to limited yardage.  Minton runs for over 140 with two TD's and Satterfield throws for a pair with one being to Chambers and the other to Mark Lascola. 

Final Score  42-10

Westmin vs. Bethany
This will be a great game and Westmin and buggey will come on late to provide the late punch to win the game!  Bethany will come out shootin with Sophmore Sensation Joyner, but it will not be enough as Westmin makes the adjustments at halftime and goes on for the victory.  Wineberg will throw for over 200 and 2 TD's with both being to Joyner, but Buggey will run for over 100 and two TD's.  This kid had a unbelievable game last week and I would not be suprised to see another kickoff return.  Also add a field goal by Castillo.
Final Prediction:  24-13

TMC vs Frostburg St.

Tough Matchup here also and this should be a highly contested matchup that I will be at this weekend!
TMC and the Defense comes out rusty after their bye week and Frostburg takes advantage early putting up 17 in the first half.  Carlisle and West will lead their team back into the game with solid defense the rest of the day, but the offense does not have enough fire power without Berkely and Frostburg does not turn the ball over and grinds on the clock to the victory!
Carlisle will finish the day with 14 tackles while West comes away with 11 solo stops.  UPSET CITY BABY!

Final Prediction:  20-17

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 11, 2005, 06:26:19 PM
Any predetermind thoughts on those predictions????

Also where has our friend PAC4LIfe gone????


I believe you owe some people on this board some money!

And is anyone else going to any games this weekend?????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Riddell on October 11, 2005, 06:31:18 PM
It was nice to see Thiel display sportsmanship that is mostly dead.  They could have run Grove City into the ground but chose to take the high road instead.  Not only is Thiel athletic, but they are nice.  It will be interesting to see how they handle a team like Waynesburg.  The Yellow Jackets are known for their "beat them any way you can" play.  Will Thiel sink to their level in order to score another win?  If they do, I am sure it will be calculated as the Thiel coaches seem like a classy bunch.  I have to admit, I am also looking forward to watching the "fan show" at this next away game.  If it is anything like it was at W & J, it will be entertainment that will rival the game itself.  There is nothing like an energetic group of fans to spur their team to victory.  And I am predicting another victory, Thiel over Waynesburg, 34-10.  For all the naysayers out there, Thiel is going all the way!  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 11, 2005, 07:08:32 PM
CC,

I think Pac4life is hiding!!! I bet he will only come out when Thiel faulters now. He owes me some money too!!!

Hey Pac4life keep the money and buy the Thiel corner a ride all day pass at Disney World.

I hate people who hide behind the computer. Just face us Pac4life we won't eat you alive.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 11, 2005, 09:12:51 PM
Riddell,

Thanks for the those comments!  I loved the Kneeling on the 3 yard line with 30 seconds left to go.  It showed absolute class from the coaching staff and acting as if they have been there before.  What comes around goes around....Grove City will have their day again and I am sure they would do the same. 
Even though Thiel has not been in this position in a long long time it is touching to see them be classy and not run up the score.  I almost forgot about that and thank you for bringing that up.  The tomcats obviously respect everyone they play and their play for 4 quarters was all they needed to talk their game, and not a last second touchdown to make the score look worse than it was.  Goodluck to the PAC this weekend and I hope TMC proves me wrong Saints!!!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 11, 2005, 09:22:37 PM
Who will end up finishing last in the conference this year????

Bethany?????

Westminster????

GCC???

I would like to say that bethany is getting better which they clearly are but I still don't think they will get out of being the bottom dwellers of the conference this year, but if I had to rank them it would go in this order....

7. Bethany
6.GCC
5. Westminster
4.Waynesburg
3.TMC
2. WJ
1. Thiel

Lastly this is for Pat and the boys...
How come the PAC does not get  an automatic bid this year??? Is it because of the one year of play they must have first???  TMC did come from div 3 and in the independent league I do believe???

Is that conference decision or a NCAA?????

Man that sucks!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 11, 2005, 09:47:56 PM
NCAA rules require a "2 year waiting period" for a previously unqualified conference to receive the AQ. I believe it has to do with conference stability. The NCAA doesn't want to deal with a situation where a conference has the minimum number of members (7) one year and then the next year they drop back down to 6 and lose AQ status. The PAC asked the NCAA for an exemption to this rule based on the PAC existing for 50+ years as proof that they were stable. The NCAA did not buy that argument and held the PAC to the 2 year waiting period.

A small price to pay to finally get the AQ in my opinion. 7-8 years ago the PAC only had five members (after Alfred bailed out & before Westminster came in). The PAC champ will get into the playoffs for sure & it is likely that one other school will make it. The most interesting scenerio would be a three way tie for 1st place in the conference.

TC beat W&J, TMC beats TC, & W&J beats TMC & all 3 finish 9-1.  I don't know what the tiebreaker system is in the PAC but one of those teams would surely get left out of the playoffs. I believe the tiebreaker system would determine a champ for playoff purposes (at least it does with AQ conferences)

If the tie breaker system does apply to non-AQ conferences then my guess is that W&J would be the shoe in to the playoffs due to their past playoff history/tradition, while either TMC or TC would get left at home. It's hard to say which one would get the nod in a muddle-huddle like that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 11, 2005, 09:49:48 PM
I wouldn't lose too much sleep waiting for PAC4LIFE.  I think that Pat requires that everyone has a legit email address in order to post.  My recollection was that PAC4LIFE's email was "suspicious" - fingerhut.com, or some such thing.

Indeed, scanning over the pages of PAC posts, PAC4LIFE's original predication seems to have disappeared.

But on to football:

Thiel 35  Waynesburg 14.  This is a tough one to call.  It could be much closer - but no Dumm, conference leading "penalty yards" given up, coupled with Abels' anemic output in last year's matchup (30 yards - Dumm had 32!) makes it hard to think this will be a close performance.  Still, Thiel hasn't beaten Waynesburg at Waynesburg since ... well, consulting the media guide, Thiel won against Waynesburg in 1933 (6-0), and no I don't remember if it was home or away  ::).  Seriously, what worries me most about this game is that due to last year's throttling of Abels Thiel might not be taking him as seriously as they should.

WJ 42 GCC 7 - as long as GCC's running game generates enough first downs  to keep WJ's offense from running the score up to ridiculous levels.  WJ gives up more points than I would have expected.  Look for special teams or pressure on Edwards to generate a touchdown.   

Bethany 21 Westminster 14 - Great respect for Jeff Hand, BUT I think Bethany can pull one off IF they manage to hang onto the ball.  Westmin's offensive point production this year is bloated by the from 38 point kicking around the hapless pups of Hiram.  This accounts for HALF of all of their points scored this year!

TMC 17 Frosties 10 - Don't know much about Frostburg - but the stats seem to indicate that their O won't challenge the stingy TMC D overmuch.

Last week, I think the pickers all chose correctly.  How about adding a tiebreaker: Total number of penalty yards assessed against Waynesburg this weekend?

I would be interested in others views about Abels vs Minton - who is the greater threat?


BTW - I believe NCAA says TWO years not one year.  TMC was an independent - not affiliated with any conference.  I think the rush to get a full schedule in FB and BB were in part to help persuade the NCAA to waive the rule.  Perhaps the strategy backfired as lots of last minute scheduling changes raised hackles among non-conference opponents who were bumped off PAC schedules. 

Anyway, not a big deal for football where the PAC has consistently been represented without the AQ, but certainly a concern for other sports - most notably basketball. So not this year, not next year - 2007. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2005, 09:54:34 PM
spliskin,

There is no tie-breaker in place for this year.  There is no need.  The teams that make the NCAAs, if any, are there by invitation, not by tie-breaker.

In fact, if Thiel would win the rest of PAC games, and then lose to Buffalo State and Carnegie-Mellon, the Tomcats would likely NOT get in, and W&J would at 9-1, even though the Presidents didn't win the conference.

The PAC will begin crafting tie-breaker rules in the near future for that time in the AQ Promised Land when one is needed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 11, 2005, 10:23:38 PM
Bob,

You're correct. I looked in the PAC "rules & regs" link on the home page & it does list the "tiebreaker rules" but stipulates they are soley to determine AQ status which the PAC does not yet have. So their stated tie-breaker system will not take effect until 2007.

As I said, if all three teams finish out at 9-1, the NCAA has to decide who to invite. I think W&J would go for sure and then either TMC or TC would go, but not both. Do you agree?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2005, 10:27:56 PM
spliskin, TC, TMC & W&J can't finish in a 3-way tie, all at 9-1.

If TMC beats TC, and W&J beats TMC to create the three-way, TMC is 8-2.

That scenario would DEFINITELY leave TMC out.

W&J would be in as a "B" and Thiel would likely get a "C" (or vice versa).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2005, 12:59:41 AM
Cleveland,

FSU seems to be a good team with good size...they should challenge the Saints this Saturday.  That being said, TMC's defense will not be rusty this weekend at Thomas More. They've had a week to heal up and get back to basics.  The offense will also benefit from the off week.

Bethany's coach said the Saints are the most physical team in the PAC.  Bottom line, this team knows it must win out and will play with the same reckless abandon over the next 5 games.  I think this team could give each team left on the schedule fits if they play as hard as they did prior to the off week.

I might go on a golf trip this weekend with the owner of the company I work for, if not then I will be at the game.  Let me know if you are coming to TMC and maybe we can share a pregame pop or two.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2005, 02:05:37 AM
pac4life didn't read the terms of service and tried to game the system -- registering with a real e-mail address but then changing to a fake one.

Of course, that locks you out of the system, because the fake e-mail address has to be validated before you can post again.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 12, 2005, 08:16:02 AM
Quote from: Riddell on October 11, 2005, 06:31:18 PM
It was nice to see Thiel display sportsmanship that is mostly dead.  They could have run Grove City into the ground but chose to take the high road instead.  Not only is Thiel athletic, but they are nice.  It will be interesting to see how they handle a team like Waynesburg.  The Yellow Jackets are known for their "beat them any way you can" play.  Will Thiel sink to their level in order to score another win?  If they do, I am sure it will be calculated as the Thiel coaches seem like a classy bunch.  I have to admit, I am also looking forward to watching the "fan show" at this next away game.  If it is anything like it was at W & J, it will be entertainment that will rival the game itself.  There is nothing like an energetic group of fans to spur their team to victory.  And I am predicting another victory, Thiel over Waynesburg, 34-10.  For all the naysayers out there, Thiel is going all the way!  

I don't think that it will be necessary for Thiel to play that way in order to win... if the outcome is no longer in doubt, it certainly wouldn't be necessary to run up the score... other than that... I don't anticipate the Thiel bench cheering for a Waynesburg injury as the Jackets allegedly did at the Thomas More game.  I was in attendance last week and appreciated the kneel to end the game, but I do think they should have done it a play or two earlier... I may travel to Waynesburg this weekend but seeing as I work the night previously I would have to go on absolutely no sleep, which might either leave me at home or at the W&J / GCC game.  We will have to see... but I will definitely be at Westminster the following week, and quite vocally cheering on my team!!  GO CATS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 12, 2005, 08:23:31 AM
Here's an interesting side note...

I was watching ESPNU this morning, and across their ticker at the bottom of the screen they actually took time to show the NCAA Division III football rankings... however, they used the  :o ACFA (sic)  :o rankings, and only the top 10 ranked teams, so I unfortunately was not able to see Thiel listed.  Still, I was surprised they gave Division III even that much of a mention.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 12, 2005, 08:59:51 AM
OldPhart - Regarding Abels vs. Minton, both are good backs.  I think the edge goes to Minton just because Thiel's offensive line has played outstanding all year.  Abels may be a more gifted runner and a bigger threat to break a big play. Minton is not a burner by any means, but he breaks a lot of tackles and takes advantage blocking from that great O-Line.

I'll be at Thiel vs. Waynesburg Saturday so I'll get a chance to see first hand who is more effective.   That will be the matchup that determines the game, whichever team establishes the run game will come out on top.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 12, 2005, 10:12:27 AM
Bob,

Daaa, Can you tell I wasn't a math major? Someone grab me a napkin so I can get this egg off my face.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 12, 2005, 02:28:33 PM
LOL WITH spliskin
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2005, 02:38:21 PM
Thiel fan, ESPN has a contractual obligation to use the ACFA poll.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 12, 2005, 03:24:50 PM
ESPN the Ocho has more D 3 information than any other broadcast on TV.  You should check it out sometime Thiel Fan.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 12, 2005, 04:09:29 PM
Saints,

I anticipate TMC to go against my predictions.  I am a fan of TMC just by the way they play the game.  They are passionate and relentless to the ball and I love that.  An aggressive defense with an offense soon to be clicking on all cylinders will hopefully bring it together one of these Saturdays!!  TMC is a very tough ball club to put points up on, let alone defeat, and I hope they do win and it will make for an awesome matchup when the go up against WJ and Thiel later on in the season.  Counting on the fact that all of those teams mentioned to win their games before their matchups. 

Do not get it twisted!!  I am already a Fan of your team!!

More PAC representation in the Playoffs the better the conference seems to be in the Nation of D3!!!

I had to pick something! 8)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 12, 2005, 04:11:34 PM
I have officially graduated to Second Stringer and I the biggest influence early in my career has been Pat Coleman and the D3 Guru's.  Thanks for making me realize I know very little and you know alot more guys!!  JK

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 12, 2005, 11:50:40 PM
Is it a 1pm game for Waynesburg/Thiel? 

I have a fist full of Pitt/USF tickets and my family is going to abandon me this weekend.  Thinking of a road trip, but watching a Grove City matchup is not interesting to me. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 10:02:14 AM
Burgh,

It's good to see you still come around we haven't heard from you in awhile buddy!  The game starts at 1:30 due to it being a Homecoming game for the Yellow Jackets. 

Hope that works for you!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 13, 2005, 10:03:21 AM
I believe the Thiel/Waynesburg game is a 1:30pm start.

Good Luck this week Tomcats!!

1-0 every week all season long

Stay focused and remember...

"Take care of the small things, and the big things will happen!"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 10:05:37 AM
For the Record,

I would scalp those Pitt tickets this year.  Give Dave and the boys a few years to get that program back on track.  2006 Starting QB Shane Murray will lead the way, but untill then I would not expect much out of the Panthers!  Then again I can not say much more than that because the Bucks are definetly out of the National Championship picture and could very well lose to a strong Michigan St. team who has plenty of Offense but not very agood on defense.    


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 01:58:25 PM
There is alot of talk going on in the South Region Playoff Forum about WJ that is pretty interesting and some goodstuff by the Guru's if anyone is interested.  Breaking down different scenarios and the percentages that we have no clue how they come up with, but it "usually" on target...

Any comments from that board that anyone has please share here!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 13, 2005, 02:23:05 PM
Would it be great or what for Thiel and W&J to meet deep into the playoffs!!!

Leads me to my question....

could they play each other in the playoffs and how soon or late would it occur?

Any input would be great!

Go Tomcats!!!

Stay focused Men!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2005, 02:33:07 PM
given the geographic restrictions, they could very well meet in the first round, 12 noon, November 19th.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 02:36:18 PM
Bob,

Honestly,  They would rematch these two teams back up???  Does this often happen in the first round?  Ive known of teams in the same conference playing each other in the second round of the playoffs but first???  That seems right because of geographical preferences but also odd??   

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2005, 02:37:38 PM
Here's a phrase with which you should become acquainted:

Geography trumps seeding.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 13, 2005, 02:37:47 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 10:02:14 AM
Burgh,

It's good to see you still come around we haven't heard from you in awhile buddy!  The game starts at 1:30 due to it being a Homecoming game for the Yellow Jackets. 

Hope that works for you!!

Oh, I'm still reading everyday, just don't have much to offer recently.  I almost wish the season could fast foward to playoff picks.  

There isn't much from the W&J schedule that has me excited.  Or the team since they laid the proverbial egg recently.  The TMC matchup I guess may be a good one, but I refuse to go to any state where the family tree goes straight up :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 13, 2005, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: bobgregg on October 13, 2005, 02:33:07 PM
given the geographic restrictions, they could very well meet in the first round, 12 noon, November 19th.


Really!

I thought that since they both should fall in the top tier of the 32 teams that they would not meet until at least the second week of the season.

That would be rough for them to meet in the first round since they both are going to end up Top 15 teams in both polls at worst.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 02:49:59 PM
Burgh,

Good to hear your back brother....

BOB,

I know you cant answer this but here it is for the forum...

If it were to workout they woudl play each other in the first round.  Can the Thiel Tomcats beat a WJ team at home for two times in one year?????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2005, 02:52:40 PM
Cartel,

IF W&J plays Thiel in the opening round, it would almost certainly be AT Thiel, not Cameron Stadium.

For both to make it, they'd have to be 9-1.  Thiel's head-to-head win would give them the higher seed, and the home game.

Now, as to whether Thiel can beat them again, let's just say it's never easy.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 02:56:37 PM
Yeah I meant home in Greenville not at Cameron bad clarification on my part, but still like you said very very tough!!!!!


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 13, 2005, 04:20:18 PM
Bob is right and he is wrong :)



He's obviously been to the playoffs alot as W&J's Play by Play man (please correct me if I am wrong) so he knows geography trumps seeding.  This is true fellas.  The best teams in Texas nearly always square off against one another during the first two rounds.  Travel money is a factor to the NCAA.  This is when we all realize the NCAA doesn't give two shats about D3 Football.

My humble opinoin would put W&J and Thiel at opposite ends of that statement.  As I remember Thiel beat the Presidents this year....so my question would be,

Can W&J beat Thiel and avoid losing to them twice?  Its not because I hate either team...just I think we can throw out historical slotting of teams this year (obviously) because W&J has lost a PAC Tilt for once and Thiel hasn't thus far (for once). 


Burghboy,

A report from TMC's Campus:

By the time the Presidents come to Crestview Hills, Cletis and the rest of the janitors hope to have indoor plumbing installed on campus....for the most part the students have all started wearing shoes this year...

Actually, should you make the jaunt down to Northern Kentucky/Cincinnati, you'll see its lot more desireable to live in this area than you would think.   I've traveled to PA numerous times for work related events...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 04:35:14 PM
I have family in Cincy and its beautiful down there.  We like to refer to them as Hamiltuckians!  A they are in Hamilton county of Ohio but there are sooo many Kentucky people who come over the Ohio River and either work in Cincy or are enjoying the River Front dining and activities.  A booming city that is continuing to grow larger and larger. 


One of the finest cities of all PA in my mind has to be Dubois, and if you get the priveledge of stopping by town it is the original home of Anheuser Busch......Call it what you want sounds crazy to me!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 13, 2005, 09:52:29 PM
They would not rematch two conference teams in the first round unless they were geographically isolated -- check through the recent brackets.

In the case of two Western PA schools, they could play almost anyone -- Centennial, MAC, ODAC, OAC, NCAC. No need for them to play in the first round at all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 14, 2005, 01:09:03 AM
Cleveland,

I think you got it a bit twisted.  "Hamiltucky" is a city 30 minutes north of Cincinnati in Butler County.  How do I know?  I went to high school at Stephen T. Badin HS in Hamilton, OH. 

Hilarious though, you had me laughing that a guy in PA knows the word "Hamiltucky".
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 14, 2005, 07:04:48 AM
Burgboy & Saintsfan,

LOL @ the "deliverance" ribbing. I've been to Crestview Hills & , believe it or not, I did not see any "battle of the banjos" or "squeeling piggys" (at least not in plain view). Crestview Hills, KY is a good looking suburb, quite the opposite of the "backwoods" of Bethany College.

I think it's way too early to be talking about playoff match-ups. There is a lot of football to be played yet. Thiel has a tough road test this week at Waynesburgh. TC has not won at Wiley Stadium in umpteen years-maybe more. While both TC & W&J still have to battle the ever stingy TMC before they can even think about post season plans. 

I have a feeling that TMC may be the "team to beat" in the conference this year. Any team that continually finds a way to win without a prolific offense (very average on 3rd down, below average in the redzone, average run/pass numbers, below average in scoring, etc) scares the hell out of me. I'm looking forward to see their defense play. They generate a ton of turnovers and keep getting it done even when their offense/special teams puts them in bad positions.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 08:11:32 AM
Saints,

I am from and currently live in Cleveland and I went to school in PA.  I frequently visit down to Cincy because of family, and I did not know there was a city Hamiltucky.   All my relatives call Cincy Hamiltucky down there!  I love it though!!  I cant believe there is actually a town by the name of Hamiltucky!!  Thats the kicker!!  Anyways goodluck to everyone in the PAC this week and lets have another great weekend!!  Unfortenatly, I will not be heading down South for the game this weekend I was going to go check it out, but I have some other plans that have come up.  If you decided to make it to the TMC vs Tomcats game in Greenville give me a heads up and well take you to the fine establishments in town!!!

GO BUCKS!!!

GO BROWNIES!!

Steelers PLEASE LOSE ONE!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 14, 2005, 09:35:39 AM
Where are the people from the board going to be this weekend?


I should be at the Thiel @ Waynesburg game!

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2005, 09:36:49 AM
I think I'll go to the W&J at Grove City game...

Big surprise there, eh?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 14, 2005, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: bobgregg on October 14, 2005, 09:36:49 AM
I think I'll go to the W&J at Grove City game...

Big surprise there, eh?

HAHA

Figured that!!

W&J should make it happen there!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 10:47:10 AM
Was going to make it down to the TMC vs Frostburg game or Thiel vs Waynesburg game, but plans have changed and I will not be making it down to either.  Both of these two games will be interesting to see their outcomes and I am expecting some hard hitting aggressive play by all of these teams.  Instead I will be in Cleveland....

GO BUCKS!!

GO BROWNS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 14, 2005, 11:10:31 AM
I'll be at the Thiel - Waynesburg game.

Cartel, did you graduate from Thiel?  If so did you play football & when?


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 14, 2005, 11:12:15 AM
I'll be attending Louisville at West Virginia and playing golf in Southern West Virginia...

I'll be taping ND/USC and will be keeping up with some buddies that are attending the TMC/Frostburg game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 01:05:38 PM
Dutch,

Yes I played 4 years for the Tomcats....

And I graduated last year.....

How about you??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 14, 2005, 01:24:07 PM
Cartel,

I played 4 years as well, graduated in 2000. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 01:34:16 PM
We just Missed...  You were the last under the Armstrong ERA!!!! 


The class I graduated with was their full first recruiting class and after seeing them now I bet you wish it was 4 years earlier for you also!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 14, 2005, 01:46:03 PM
No Doubt !!!! It's great to see you guy's got it turned around.  I had the "pleasure" of playing for Giangrossa before Armstrong as well.   Count your blessings that you came in when Coach Liep did. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 04:12:19 PM
Oh yeah Giangrossa thats hilarious!  He is the coach over at bethany now!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 04:13:44 PM
He is actually the O or D coordinator there not the Head Coach
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gottaloveit on October 14, 2005, 11:07:58 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 04:35:14 PM
One of the finest cities of all PA in my mind has to be Dubois, and if you get the priveledge of stopping by town it is the original home of Anheuser Busch......Call it what you want sounds crazy to me!!!

DuBois maybe one of the nicest cities in the world... not just PA... and you are wrong about it being the home of Anheuser Busch... It is the home of Budweiser... DuBois Budweiser... In Germany Budweiser is a type of beer or a brewing process... AB took DuBois budweiser out of business for rights to the name name of the beer... It is BS if you ask me
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 14, 2005, 11:25:18 PM
I see W&J joined the empire 8 in field hockey......anyone know of any reason that they would want to leave the presidents for football??  (i know field hockey and football have nothing to do with each other, but it was kind of interesting.)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 15, 2005, 01:48:28 AM
Utah,

I can not see them leaving the PAC for football!

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 15, 2005, 07:04:39 PM
Whew!  When I saw halftime score at GCC knotted at 14 and the 2nd quarter score with Waynesburg leading 21-0 I thought that I had entered the PAC alternate universe.  Couldn't make it to the game today. Anyone at the TC/Waynesburg game care to share their insights?   Dutch12? ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 15, 2005, 07:17:27 PM
OldPhart,

I just got back from the Thiel game.  I have to give Waynesburg credit they did a great job of keeping Minton in check.  Thiel struggled to run the ball.  The only problem is when you put 9 guys in the box to stop the run you are vulnerable though the air.  Chambers ended up with 11 catches for 177 yards and 2 tds.  Satterfield broke a school record and threw for 336 yards 3 tds.  It was a great game, but certainly 21-0 was a little scary.  Again, I give Waynesburg a lot of credit as well as Thiel for getting a big win on the road after being down early.  The Thiel defense stepped it up in the second half keeping Waynesburg off the board and forcing overtime.  Thiel had a chance to win it in regulation with about 50 seconds left on a 25 yard field goal, but there was a low snap and Waynesburg blocked the attempt. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 15, 2005, 08:51:05 PM
I just started wondering - besides Thiel's victory today what other SUCCESSFUL 21+ point comebacks have there been in D3? ???  I know that Rowan came back earlier this year from a 28-7 deficit against I-AA Robert Morris to win. So I know these things happen more than one might think.  Out of idle curiosity (I already tried NCAA and doing a search of D3F's page for comeback wins) does anyone have any idea of what the largest deficit that was surmounted for a win is?

I think the last time a posited a records question - I was directed with a suitable amount of egg on my face to consult Around the Nation.  Hopefully, the answer isn't so obvious that I will be humiliated again.  :P
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 15, 2005, 09:27:14 PM
Here's what the NCAA record book has:

MOST POINTS OVERCOME TO WIN A GAME
33—Wis.-Platteville vs. Wis.-Eau Claire, Nov. 8, 1980
(trailed 33-0 with 7:00 left in 2nd quarter; won 52-
43); Salisbury vs. Randolph-Macon, Sept. 15, 1984
(trailed 33-0 with 14:18 left in 2nd quarter; won 34-
33); Lakeland vs. Concordia (Wis.), Oct. 11, 1997
(trailed 33-0 with 7:53 left in 3rd quarter; won 41-
33)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 15, 2005, 10:14:51 PM
Today's scary Thiel win should remind them that every week people will be coming at them with everything they've got. They can't afford to take anyone lightly.

It looks like Waynesburg found some weaknesses on both Thiel's offense (run game anyway) and run defense. TC needs to get back to work to fix these problems if they want to run the table and have a chance in the postseason (if they get there).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 16, 2005, 12:34:35 AM
Just for everyone to know---  3 out of 5 of Thiel's starting offensive lineman did not play in the game and it showed---- they should be back soon
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 16, 2005, 07:18:31 AM
I was not at the TC/WC game on Saturday... and a darn good thing too, or my wife probably would have brought me home in a straitjacket afterwards!  I listened to the game on the radio, which was plenty agonizing enough!  I have a couple of questions for anybody that might have been there.  First off, did Waynesburg have any kind of real shot at running back that blocked field goal at the end of regulation?  And secondly, what is the deal with that train that kept going by and blowing its whistle during the game?!   Are there tracks that run right alongside the field?  I was laughing like crazy because it conjured up images of the opening scenes of "Brewster's Millions" in my head!

4-0 PAC, Two to go!  Let's pack Westminster full next week and give THIEL the home crowd!  It's a skort 15 minute drive for me, so I will definitely be there!  Go CATS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 16, 2005, 07:59:29 AM
Thielfan, 

Waynesburg did have a good chance of returning the blocked field goal for six.   The ball was picked up by one of the waynesburg corners who had some speed.  Luckily for Thiel someone took a good angle and pushed him out of bounds around midfield.  Then they tacked on a 15 yard personal foul penalty which gave waynesburg the ball in Thiel territory.  Thiel picked off a pass the next play though and time ran the clock out.  Also, if you've never been to Waynesburg, there is a train track that runs directly behing the visitors bench and there were 4 or 5 trains that passed by during the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 16, 2005, 08:25:53 AM
Thanks Pat - 33 points - yikes  :o Hopefully, Thiel will decide NOT to try for the comeback record, but after spotting W&J 14 and Waynesburg 21 ...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 16, 2005, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: spliskin on October 15, 2005, 10:14:51 PM
Today's scary Thiel win should remind them that every week people will be coming at them with everything they've got. They can't afford to take anyone lightly.

It looks like Waynesburg found some weaknesses on both Thiel's offense (run game anyway) and run defense. TC needs to get back to work to fix these problems if they want to run the table and have a chance in the postseason (if they get there).

Your Right!!!

Thiel will be marked each and every week since they are the leaders of the PAC right now. I think this scare will give them motivation to work hard each and every week so that a let down does not occur and ruin their perfect season!

Great job by both teams. I was at the game as well and Waynesburg had Thiel on the ropes. The Thiel coaching staff did a great job as Waynesburg took away their running game which was their strong point. The defense also kept Waynesburg out of the endzone in the second half and created a few turnovers, none as important as the 2nd half opening drive which gave the offense a short field which they capitalized on to get within 7.

Waynesburg is not a bad team by any means. I think they have a solid defense and some people who are game breakers on offense. I was surprised to see the speed of Abels. He really impressed me. I also liked the way the safties, especially Tenney came up and supported the run vs Thiel.

Good win Cats

Stay focused!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Riddell on October 16, 2005, 02:50:10 PM
I was at the Thiel v. Waynesburg game on Saturday.  Wow, what a heart stopper!!!  It was obvious Waynesburg spent the past week studying Minton's every move.  By Saturday, they probably knew him better than he knows himself.  It was great to see him rally at the end of the game though.  Satterfield also seemed a little off the first half; not like him to get rattled.  He stayed true to his nature however, and ended up breaking the school passing record!  I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in the Thiel locker room during half time.  The Thiel fans, like the team, were slow to warm up, but as the end result showed, the Thiel machine found itself in high gear by the end of the game.  Hopefully the team, the coaches and the fans will crank it up right from kickoff this Saturday.  Two come from behind wins are two too many.  Thiel needs to roll onto Westminster campus and OWN it!

Thielfan: If the Thiel fans stay true to their past displays of affection for their team (and I am sure they will), Thiel WILL have the home crowd advantage at Westminster!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Riddell on October 17, 2005, 12:44:04 AM
Cleveland Cartel and Dutch 12:  You both said you played for Thiel...What positions?? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 17, 2005, 09:30:02 AM
I played strong safety. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 11:47:25 AM
What years?????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 17, 2005, 11:50:39 AM
I'm looking for Big Steve and the Thiel O-Line to really dominate the ground game against a questionable Westminster rushing defense this weekend.  The Tomcats will really be looking to get that rushing attack back on track after the huge struggle they had against the Yellowjackets on Saturday.  Thiel will also pile their defense up to try to stop Sean Buggey from running the ball for Westminster, as he is among the PAC leaders in rushing.  Westminster will have to find a way to pass the ball to relieve some of the pressure on their running game.  The Westminster coaching staff will have to be sharp on defense in order to call plays that will allow them to keep Minton bottled up inside without letting Chambers get behind their secondary as we saw happen to Waynesburg in the second half of last week's game.  We'll have to see how it plays out on Saturday!

GO CATS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 11:59:30 AM
Lets get it started early this week

Predictions.......

Saturday, October 22

Thiel at Westminster, 1:30
Waynesburg at Grove City, 1:30
Bethany at W&J, 7:00
Thomas More at Anderson, 1:30

I will post mine tomorrow sometime.

I saw the Thiel @ Westminster game time as 1 and 1:30

I am pretty sure its 1:30 anyone know for sure????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 17, 2005, 12:02:45 PM
I played '94 - '98 and was an assistant coach in '99.  I've tried to erase most of my playing days from my memory  :) I call it my character building years. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 17, 2005, 12:17:46 PM
PAC's web site lists the time for Thiel @ Westminster as 1:30, and I trust them.  :)

Here's my predictions, for what they're worth:

Thiel 35
Westminster 10

Waynesburg 28
Grove City 7

Bethany 0
Wash & Jeff 49

and the game that might be the most interesting,

Thomas More 14
Anderson 10

I'm sure I'll be wearing some egg on my face after this weekend over those... I'm never much good at these kind of things.

What a tough scheduling break for Bethany... they go into this game 0-5 PAC with W&J being their last chance to win a conference game this year, at precisely the point in the season where W&J knows they need to win every game and get a little help to win the PAC again.  The Presidents are going to be a juggernaut.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2005, 02:00:29 PM
Quote from: ThielFan on October 17, 2005, 12:17:46 PM
PAC's web site lists the time for Thiel @ Westminster as 1:30, and I trust them.

That's probably a decent thought since the Conference SID is the Westminster SID.

Of course, there was that thing two weeks ago.

And, they could be trying to get the game started BEFORE the Tomcat masses arrive.

Hummmm, now what time DOES the game start?

Joe???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 17, 2005, 05:21:23 PM
NOW I know what happened to Thiel at Waynesburg - the scheduled starting time must have been mixed up there too and the bus with the defense didn't show up until a half hour into the game!  :D  Seriously though, I am impressed with the excellent game plan W-burg had going into the game.  They quickly took advantage of Thiel's inability to adjust to the outside running game early.  I expect it will be a worthwhile game in Greenville next year too.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 17, 2005, 07:22:11 PM
Saints Fan,

I am dissapointed in TMC this week, but with the lack of offense the last few games everyone could of assumed that this would of happened at least once or twice the rest of the way.  I wish they would of won and taken care of business but from what I heard they were rotating QB's including a Freshmen for most of the game?  Does anyone have any comments on this game???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 18, 2005, 07:16:16 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 17, 2005, 05:21:23 PM
NOW I know what happened to Thiel at Waynesburg - the scheduled starting time must have been mixed up there too and the bus with the defense didn't show up until a half hour into the game!  :D  Seriously though, I am impressed with the excellent game plan W-burg had going into the game.  They quickly took advantage of Thiel's inability to adjust to the outside running game early.  I expect it will be a worthwhile game in Greenville next year too.


<LOL>  That would be one explanation for what happened on Saturday!!  Seriously, though, I know we all expected Abels to have a good performance, but I couldn't believe the way they lit up the scoreboard and controlled the ball with their running backs in the first half.  Didn't they open the game with something like 13 straight running plays?  Kudos to Leipheimer for finding a way to keep Thiel focused and getting them back in the game.  There's no way I miss this game next year when they come to Greenville... but I'll have to pack a lunch because I think it will be a LONG day!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 18, 2005, 07:32:45 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on October 17, 2005, 12:02:45 PM
I played '94 - '98 and was an assistant coach in '99.  I've tried to erase most of my playing days from my memory  :) I call it my character building years. 

I don't blame you... those were some pretty rough years for the 'Cats... though I didn't arrive on campus until '96, and if I remember correctly, as thin as the win column was  from '96 to '99, it was worse before then.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2005, 07:56:28 AM
Cleveland,

From what I hear TMC had to bring in the freshman at QB, because the other Senior got hurt.  The kid is going to be a good one, has good feet and a good arm.  We'll see how it goes from here....

As far as the loss goes, it doesn't really change anything.  Same as a week ago, the Saints won't have a chance to get into the playoffs unless they win the PAC.

I'm disappointed, but like you said this was going to happen if they didn't score points.  I'm sure Coach Hallett and his staff are working hard to correct their mistakes..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 18, 2005, 08:23:31 AM
Predictions:

Thiel at Westminster, 1:30

I think Thiel will go into a swarm of bees at Westminster and will stuggle early despite coming away with a win. Westminster scores early but not often and Minton paves the way as Thiel gets their running game back on track vs the Titans. Chambers and Satterfield also connect for 2 TD's as the Tomcats take one step closer to winning the PAC. Another gutsy day for the Tomcat defense as they allow the Titans under 60 yards rushing and 200 total yards.

Thiel 34 Westminster 7

Waynesburg at Grove City, 1:30

I think this will be one of the best games this week. Waynesburg will run and run and run their way to a victory behind Abels. The Grove City defense will make it tough, but just not tough enough as Tenney leads the Yellow Jackets defense against the Wing T attack of GCC.

Waynesburg 21 Grove City 14


Bethany at W&J, 7:00

Under the lights at Cameron Stadium is magical for the Presidents as Edwards throws for 400+ yards in an easy victory vs the Bison. Krepps adds 3 TD's and the one two combo of Mendal and Zitselburger do not give the Bison a chance. The W&J defense gets the egg. Despite a decent effort from Bethany the lack of stops on defense and offense sustaining a drive equals a long night in Wash PA.


W&J 56 Bethany 0


Thomas More at Anderson, 1:30

Injuries to Qb's makes it tough on the Saints. The one thing they do have is Defense and that is what gets them into the victory circle this week as they get the road win at Anderson.

TM10 Anderson 3

Good Luck PAC

and GO Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 18, 2005, 10:02:33 AM
Predictions for the week :

Waynesburg 17 Grove City 10 - Both teams are one dimensional offensively, both will load up on defense against the run.  The speed of Abels and Daniels gives Waynesburg the advantage.

W&J 48 Bethany 7 - I'm going out on a limb saying Bethany will keep the Presidents under 50, at night, at Cameron. -  Way out

TMC 17 Anderson 13 - TMC bounces back from last weeks loss and get's a defensive td to secure the win.

Thiel 42 Westminster 13 - Thiel will get back to being balanced running and throwing the ball offensively.  Westminster will try to duplicate what Waynesburg did running the ball in the first half against Thiel last week, but the Tomcats will be prepared and keep Buggey in check. 


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 18, 2005, 10:42:23 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2005, 07:56:28 AM
As far as the loss goes, it doesn't really change anything.  Same as a week ago, the Saints won't have a chance to get into the playoffs unless they win the PAC.

IMO TMC's ONLY chance to get to the playoffs now is to win out.  With losses to two unranked teams and with no AQ in the PAC this year, winning the PAC won't be enough for the Saints.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2005, 12:17:35 PM
oldphart,

agreed.  That is what I meant to say earlier.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 19, 2005, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 18, 2005, 10:42:23 AM
IMO TMC's ONLY chance to get to the playoffs now is to win out.  With losses to two unranked teams and with no AQ in the PAC this year, winning the PAC won't be enough for the Saints.


I doubt anyone with two losses gets into the playoffs (unless they win a conference which has a Pool A).  Two losses to unranked teams would put TMC behind a whole host of two-loss teams which did lose to contenders. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 19, 2005, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on October 19, 2005, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 18, 2005, 10:42:23 AM
IMO TMC's ONLY chance to get to the playoffs now is to win out.  With losses to two unranked teams and with no AQ in the PAC this year, winning the PAC won't be enough for the Saints.


I doubt anyone with two losses gets into the playoffs (unless they win a conference which has a Pool A). Two losses to unranked teams would put TMC behind a whole host of two-loss teams which did lose to contenders.

Ron - Don't you think if TMC could pull off upsets against ranked Thiel and W&J in the process of winning out their season that they would get any consideration?  I imagine it would do wonders for their SOS or whatever the measure is called now.  Besides, other two loss teams might stumble coming towards the finish.

Looking at last year, I note that Willamette made it in at 7-3 (only 2 D3 losses though - and those to very strong opponents).  With this year's playoff field expanded to 32 do you really think that ALL 2 loss teams without an AQ will be shut out?

Regardless, I would rather see Thiel and W&J win out and have both of them in postseason.  Primarily, because I'm a Thiel fan and secondarily for the good of the PAC's reputation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 19, 2005, 11:41:27 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 19, 2005, 11:02:09 AM
Looking at last year, I note that Willamette made it in at 7-3 (only 2 D3 losses though - and those to very strong opponents).  With this year's playoff field expanded to 32 do you really think that ALL 2 loss teams without an AQ will be shut out?

Last year's Pool B class was fairly weak.  This year with Thiel and W&J (among others) it seems unlikely that the NCAA will have to look hard at two loss teams.  I could certainly be wrong.  There have always been plenty of one-loss (Pool C-eligible) teams sitting at home and I expect those to get the majority, if not all, of the new bids. 

Teams like independent Huntingdon, which if they win out will only have a loss to Trinity (TX), are also in the mix for either a B or C this season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gamegenie on October 19, 2005, 01:37:53 PM
I am welcoming myself to the PAC post patterns.  I have sat back and watched as most of you have once again filled your  minds with hope, and it sickens me to know that you will all,  mostly be proven wrong again.  Year in and year out you sit and hope that your teams  i.e. Thiel will be an elite team only to bite the harsh bullet called reality at the end of the season.  We all know that W&J is KING when it comes to the PAC and although Thiel got a taste this year and Waynesburg got a taste a few years back we all know that if we had to take a team to advance the furthest into the playoffs it would be W&J.  So Thiel you might as well give up your pipe dream now to save yourself some dignity and the obvious let down that lies ahead for you.  Do not be angry this is simply one person who has seen this happen year in and year out and dont enjoy seeing people build themselves and there teams up just to be knocked right back down.  Your bottom dwellers always have and always will Im trying to do you guys a favor and state the obvious.  You might as well be Cleveland Browns fans if you enjoy the let downs year in and year out.  So just watch and see as evryhting unfolds how the cream will always rise to the top and if your pay any kind of attention to this conference we all know that it will be W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 19, 2005, 01:49:06 PM
gamegenie,

sounds to me like you are a salty W&J fan who cant deal with your loss to Thiel this year- well unfortunately- W&J did lose to Thiel this year whether you want to believe it or not- I was at the game and it was a beautiful thing--  deal with it
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 19, 2005, 02:46:06 PM
Two out of three years not winning the PAC doesn't sound like a KING.

More like the court jester.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 19, 2005, 04:34:14 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 19, 2005, 02:46:06 PM
Two out of three years not winning the PAC doesn't sound like a KING.
Don't get in a hurry, burghboy.  This year's title isn't gone yet.  And while maybe they're not KING, the PRESIDENTS have 18 of the last 21.

Enjoy the victory, but don't get ahead of yourself.


And please don't get the idea that I was defending the "genie" that got out of the bottle.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 19, 2005, 05:34:13 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 19, 2005, 04:34:14 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 19, 2005, 02:46:06 PM
Two out of three years not winning the PAC doesn't sound like a KING.
Don't get in a hurry, burghboy.  This year's title isn't gone yet.  And while maybe they're not KING, the PRESIDENTS have 18 of the last 21.

Amen to that! Both Thiel and TMC control their own destiny.  However, unless the PAC has a tiebreaker, I think the best W&J can hope for is co-champs - and that requires help.

With respect to 18 of the last 21: it surely shows the strength of the program.  However, I would argue that the 2 PAC championships out of the last 3 are the most impressive.  The competitiveness of PAC is CLEARLY superior to what it was 4 or 5 years ago.  Yes there were blowouts in the conference last year.  But going back over the past 3 years I think the level of competition has improved.  I think this will help W&J in the postseason - as long as they take care of business for the next three weeks and secure their bid.

When I look to the next 21 years of PAC football, I doubt that we will see any team taking 18 of the 21 championships and I think the conference will be better served by it (heh-heh - the nice thing is I figure no one will call me on this prediction for a while...  ;D)

BTW - which bottle were you thinking that genie escaped from.  My guess is that from his reference to "sickness"  it was PBR   :P
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 20, 2005, 12:38:48 AM
I know this may draw some arrows, but I wonder how much of the conference is more 'competitive' as much as W&J falling back toward the pack.   Probably a bit of both.   Thiel obviously has grown and is more talented than they have been for a long time.   Waynesburg?  .500 or better the last three years, and showed some flashes. 

I guess what I'm saying is although in the last three years there have only been 2 PAC losses by W&J, as someone that witnessed both of them, I felt like the most talented team didn't win.  That's not meant as an excuse, because talented teams don't equate to winning teams in certain situations, and clearly were beaten by the better teams that day. 

18 out of 21 PAC titles is impressive, and my previous comment was made to state that you can twist stats any way one wishes.   If W&J does not win the PAC this year, I think it's safe to say they are not the 'KING' anymore.   Almost all of that streak came under Luckhardt and Banaszak.  The program has a new face on it, and how they finish will be interesting, but if Thiel continues to win out, would put a program that has not won the conference for the second time in three years.

I admit I'm biased, and a pessimist too, which is an annoying combo  :)



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 20, 2005, 08:30:42 AM
Obviously, W&J is the more talented team overall.  They key is the depth of their talent.  They have been winning for a long time and it shows in the recruits they get.  When good players graduate, good players are there to take their place.  In order for Thiel or any other team to match the talent and depth W&J has they have to continue winning year in and year out. 

As for this year I think Thiel matches up pretty well vs. W&J if you look at the starting line up, that is why they were able to play with and ultimately win at W&J.  The same can probably be said with the Waynesburg team that beat them a few years ago.  The question is after this season who will be there to fill the shoes of the talent Thiel loses.  The PAC teams that have beaten W&J in the past have had a good group of kids for a year that played well together and then the next year those players graduate and they start from square one. 

Bottom line is if you want to have the talent W&J is able to recruit then do exactly what W&J has done to get it.  KEEP WINNING !!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 20, 2005, 09:15:48 AM
Perhaps I should have been more explicit.  W&J has been dominant - but I think that Thiel & Waynesburg have been able to close the gap significantly.  Does it still translate into W&J wins?  For the most part - yup.  But conference games are no longer automatic blowouts.   Where W&J formerly had to do little more than "show up" to win the conference, it is obvious to me that over the last few years the PAC champion - whether it was W&J or Waynesburg (and whoever it is this year) had to take conference games very seriously indeed.  I think this translates to a much more healthy PAC football conference than that of the 80's and 90's.

burghboy - when it comes to talent at the skill positions I think that W&J clearly has an edge over Thiel.  However, I would argue that may not be the case when considering the O and D line.  I know you were at the Thiel/W&J game whereas I was not - so maybe you want to comment on that.  On another note: Banaszak vs Sirianni - you mention all of those championships under the previous coaches, but wasn't it last year under Sirianni that W&J has had its best playoff run in recent history?  Do you think that is because of the coaching, in spite of the coaching, or somewhere in between?   As someone who was not a big fan of Banny's, I am interested in opinions from others a bit closer to the situation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 20, 2005, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: gamegenie on October 19, 2005, 01:37:53 PM
Your bottom dwellers always have and always will Im trying to do you guys a favor and state the obvious.  You might as well be Cleveland Browns fans if you enjoy the let downs year in and year out.  So just watch and see as evryhting unfolds how the cream will always rise to the top and if your pay any kind of attention to this conference we all know that it will be W&J.

Nice troll post.  Next time do us all a REAL favor and make an intelligible statement with a few real facts or statistics that might provoke a fresh thought or two, instead of spilling your sour grapes all over the message board.  Thank you for "Stating the obvious", I appreciate your waste of my time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 10:13:48 AM
They make a bottle form of PBR??!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2005, 10:17:31 AM
Granting my own bias, here's what I was trying to say in the "King" comments above.

Thiel has closed the gap with W&J in terms of three of the last four games have been competitive.  What happens over the next 5-8 years will tell whether Thiel has become regularly competitive.

Waynesburg has closed the gap with W&J in terms of having won one of the last two conference titles.  But outside of the 2003 season, the Yellow Jackets have been and continue to be a two-loss team in the conference, and one of those losses has ALWAYS been to W&J.

Westminster came into the conference in 2000 as an NAIA (scholarship) provisional member, and won at W&J.  Since then, the Titans have been a .500 ballclub, and haven't beaten W&J at all, the last several years haven't been close.

Grove City has beaten W&J twice ('97, '98) and has only been really in one other game since.

Bethany hasn't beaten W&J since 1982 and nothing more needs said in that regard.

As long as W&J continues to be the measuring stick against which ALL of the other programs in the PAC measure themselves, they will continue to be the "King".  And that will be the case until W&J REGULARLY doesn't win the title.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 20, 2005, 10:21:16 AM
Bob - And TMC is still a bit of a question mark, but has made the conference much more interesting this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 20, 2005, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 10:13:48 AM
They make a bottle form of PBR??!!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Elfgrover%2Fsitebuildercontent%2Fsitebuilderpictures%2Fpbr.jpg&hash=23318c5e877dc4c3d2a4f6769ee86dcbf313f3b9)

Note the brown bottle which helps prevent it from going "skunky" - as if one could tell!  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 20, 2005, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 20, 2005, 09:15:48 AM

burghboy - when it comes to talent at the skill positions I think that W&J clearly has an edge over Thiel.  However, I would argue that may not be the case when considering the O and D line.  I know you were at the Thiel/W&J game whereas I was not - so maybe you want to comment on that.  On another note: Banaszak vs Sirianni - you mention all of those championships under the previous coaches, but wasn't it last year under Sirianni that W&J has had its best playoff run in recent history?  Do you think that is because of the coaching, in spite of the coaching, or somewhere in between?   As someone who was not a big fan of Banny's, I am interested in opinions from others a bit closer to the situation.


Well, I'm fine giving opinions, but I'm not closer to the situation, so wanted to be up front about that.  I played under Luckhardt, and followed the team during Banaszak's time.   I think during those years the pass became a lot more fascinating with the current coach as the Offensive Coordinator, and that has led to an imbalance in philosophy that won't get you to the title game.

I agree that the current coaching staff had it's best playoff run in recent history.   I also agree with you on the 'talent' from the offensive and especially, defensive lines.  I just know that when the program was getting to their two Stagg Bowls and closer to it, they seemed to have a more physical presence, as well as skill players.   I don't want so make it sound like it's all coaching, because something must have went well for them to do what they did last year, but there was a huge gap between W&J and their final opponent last year.  

Maybe part of that is recruiting, but as essential as I know it is, I think people talk about it like it's Division 1, which its not.  You still have to find guys that not only are people who can play for you, but succeed in the academic environment that W&J (and some other PAC schools) presents.    I do know that there are players in schools that used to pull talent out toward W&J that is now going to Robert Morris, Duquense, Waynesburg, or other schools where several years ago that wasn't the case.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2005, 10:57:01 AM
oldphart,

Not yet, they haven't.  TMC has been all talk so far, at least in regards to the "King" or the proposed heir apparent.  TMC has played neither.

We'll see where TMC fits in this discussion October 29th and November 5th.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 11:37:00 AM
bob,

Help me out...I am not sure where TMC has been all talk thus far.  I don't think anyone's been doing any talking...not team-wise or anyone on here.  But you are right they will have earn some respect with their last two PAC games. 

Especially with losing the non-conference games.

We do need to remember they were picked 5th in the PAC, so they HAVE made waves this season already by finishing higher than predicted by both the Coaches and "Media" of the PAC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 20, 2005, 11:37:54 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2005, 10:17:31 AM

Thiel has closed the gap with W&J in terms of three of the last four games have been competitive.  What happens over the next 5-8 years will tell whether Thiel has become regularly competitive.

Exactly what I was trying to say.  Certainly W&J would be considered "King" of the PAC to date.  In order for that to change other PAC schools will have to show they can CONSISTENTLY compete, not once every 5 years.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2005, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 11:37:00 AM
bob,

Help me out...I am not sure where TMC has been all talk thus far.... 

We do need to remember they were picked 5th in the PAC, so they HAVE made waves this season already by finishing higher than predicted by both the Coaches and "Media" of the PAC.
saintsfan,

That wasn't a slap at TMC.  As the newcomer to the Kings Court, to date, TMC has played ONLY the other "middle of the pack" teams.  IF TMC beats Thiel and/or W&J, then they will have exceeded expectations.  If not, they are about where I figured them to be, middle of the pack, 3-4-5.

TMC being "all talk" is that they haven't played their "measuring stick" games yet.  That's all.  I'm looking forward to Nov. 5th at TMC's house.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 12:33:41 PM
Point taken, Bob.  I agree with everything you say except that they are middle of the pack.  They will at least be 3rd, when they were picked to be middle of the pack.  Middle of the pack, to me, means 2 PAC losses...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2005, 12:39:22 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 12:33:41 PM
...  Middle of the pack, to me, means 2 PAC losses...

Unless they win October 29th AND November 5th, TMC will have 2 PAC losses.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 02:33:42 PM
Come on Robert.  I meant at this point in the season---and you know it.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2005, 03:40:47 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 02:33:42 PM
Come on Robert.  I meant at this point in the season---and you know it.

I know what you're trying to say, but I watched the Pittsburgh Pirates play .500 ball through early June (this point of the season).  I heard/saw all kinds of people jump on the bandwagon when it appeared the Pirates actually might improve to "middle of the pack, only to hear those same people wailing in agony, breaking ankles jumping off three weeks later.

There's a high school team in my County that's struggled over the last 5-6 years.  They are much improved this year, and the scheduling god's granted them the four worst teams in the section to start their section play.  Four straight wins, signs went up, attendance boomed, they were all the talk about "exceeding expectations" and so on.  Now, having lost to the two best teams and about to play their final regular season game against another team in the "middle of the pack", this same "exceeding expectations" team is fighting for its very playoff life.

If your satisfied being the "Cock of the Walk", exceeding expectations, or any of that stuff at "this point of the season", that's your business.  But know this, the team that ultimately "assassinates the Presidents" will be the one that "this point of the season" doesn't mean squat!  June 20th is not the end of the MLB season (though for the Pirates, it wasn't long after that).  October 20th isn't the measuring point for "exceeding expecations".
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 20, 2005, 11:16:53 PM
Game Genie what a joke....

Game Genie was in style back in 1990 with Sega Genesis and it still sounds like you are there yourself, and you must be from the Pride of Montour because your knowledge and insight is just as aweful as that PA team.  Go back to coaching up Montour and goodluck next year with beating Moon without Butkis.....HAHA
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2005, 01:46:03 PM
Touche...

that being said, AT THIS POINT....Thomas More has exceeded expectations.  You and I both know they aren't satisfied with that though.

Good luck this weekend.  See you in Crestview Hills in November!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2005, 02:33:21 PM
AT THIS POINT, I'm planning to see you in Kentucky!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2005, 06:42:58 PM
That point we can agree on, Bob.

Sounds like both the Saints offense and defense are clicking now....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 22, 2005, 06:48:00 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2005, 11:37:00 AM
bob,
But you are right they will have earn some respect with their last two PAC games. 

Boy are you ever right!  Check out the PAC web page at

http://www.pacathletics.org

I just discovered that even if TMC wins out in the conference that Thiel has clinched at least a share of the football crown by beating Westmin today.   ::) Apparently, the PAC isn't giving TMC any chance of winning their last two PAC contests.   While I think it is likely that Thiel will win the title outright - TMC still COULD surprise me and win out in the PAC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 22, 2005, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 22, 2005, 06:48:00 PM

Boy are you ever right!  Check out the PAC web page at

http://www.pacathletics.org

Forget checking the web page,  the PAC page has been modified so it no longer suggests that Thiel has clinched at least a share of the title.  The nice thing about the web is that when you make a mistake you can quickly zap it out of existence before too many people see it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 24, 2005, 01:29:35 AM
Comments on Saturday's games:

Thiel @ Westmini

Thiel continued to stay unbeaten in a dominating effort against the Titans. With a win next week they can not only win the PAC for the first time since 72' but also set a school record for wins. Congrats and go Tomcats!!!

W&J vs Bethany

W&J put on a show under the lights at Cameron Stadium in Wash PA. Shutting out the Bison on the way to an impressive 63 point win. Yards and more yards for the powerful President's offense that will be tough to match come playoff time. W&J travels to Waynesburg next week to try and give the Yellow Jackets another PAC loss on thier home turf.

Grove City vs Waynesburg

Despite a great defensive effort by Tenney and the Yellow Jackets a blocked punt put the ball on thier one yard line which the Wolverines capitalized on and gave them a one point win. GCC's defense also manged to shut down Waynesburg allowing just 6 points.

Thomas More vs Anderson

Thomas More got the offense on task in a 38 point showing vs Anderson. The Saints are still unbeaten in the PAC and face the Tomcats this week to try and put a blemish on Thiel's perfect season.


Did anyone get to any of these games? I was unable to attend this week but plan on traveling to Greenville next Saturday to watch the Tomcats try and win thier first PAC crown in 3 and half decades.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 24, 2005, 09:12:28 AM
I was at the Thiel - Westminster game this weekend.  Despite the soggy and muddy conditions Thiel did most of their damage through the air in the first half.  Chambers and LaScola both hauled in multiple long pass receptions.  Another great game by the Thiel O-Line & the defense held Buggey to 6 yards on 9 attempts.  -  Looking forward to the TMC - Thiel game this weekend, should be a good test for the Tomcat Offense.  They are well aware of TMC's ability to play defense.  The preliminary forcast is for sunny mid-fifties for the game, should be a great day for football.  - Let's get a big crowd out in Greenville for what amounts to a PAC championship game at this point. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 24, 2005, 09:25:06 AM
I was at the Thiel/Westmin game.  Wet and cold.  Rain almost the entire game.  Plenty of mud.  Perfect football weather.  My view was that the 34-0 outcome understated how thoroughly Thiel dominated the game.  Consider that 34 of Westminster's 124 O yards came on the last drive - which incidently brought Westmin to a -3 total rushing yards for the day instead of the -14 they would have been saddled with otherwise. :o  Buggey held to 6 yards on 9 rushes - what a difference a week makes!

In my partisan mind, the officiating was weak.  For example, in the middle of the 4th quarter I had decided to walk around the field a bit to try to work out some of the uncontrollable shivering and had a perfect view of Saterfield's pass to LaScola in the end zone.  The field judge made no call on an out-and-out mugging of LaScola before the ball arrived.  There were a number of other no-calls as well.  Obviously, it didn't effect the outcome - but it was still frustrating.

If you read the stats you see that Thiel was an uncharacteristic 0-6 on 4th downs.   I think that a number of those would have been turned into field goals if the weather had been better and/or the score had been closer.  Why put your place kicker in jeopardy on a slick field if you don't need to? 

I was really looking forward to seeing what Freshman punter Matt McKinney could do now that he is back and active on the team.  In pregame warm-ups he was really booming them.  Beautiful kick for his first punt, pinning Westmin back on the 1.  His second punt was a VERY high snap which he made a great one handed grab to bring down.  Unfortunately, he then throws the INT.  I think he actually had the time to punt it, but I figure first game jitters and the adrenaline rush of the high snap contributed to that pick.  I expect that we should see a couple of good kicks from him this Saturday.  Of course the Thiel O will have to provide him with some 4th down opportunities.  I am trusting we won't see too many of those.

The fumbles look bad on the box score - but really it was a lot of end-of-the-game, cold and wet, second string sloppiness.  Backup QB Blankenship lost the handle on a couple of exchanges as did Westmin QB Barley on one exchange.    Don't know for sure what Blankenship's condition is on his injury at the end of his final run - heard that it was likely an ankle sprain. 

Not much suspense on Saturday - but still fun to watch.

Looking forward to Saturday and what should amount to the PAC title game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 24, 2005, 09:37:17 AM
OldPhart,

I was looking forward to McKinney punting as well, he normally punts barefoot - I wanted to see him bang a couple out of the mud in forty-five degree weather and pouring rain without a shoe.   He probably did the smart thing by going with a shoe considering the conditions.  Maybe this weekend I'll get to see him sting the crap out of his foot once or twice. - hopefully not more than that!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 24, 2005, 10:32:30 AM
"You are right though about the thiel/w and j situation.  Pat should just swap those two teams after the points and votes and everything are settled at the end of the week."


"Believe me, I would like to. But then again, I don't have either school on my ballot -- I don't think either is a Top 25 team."


Pat, I saw your response to this on the Liberty League board.  You don't think Thiel and/or W&J are top 25 teams?  I'm just curious as to your reasoning behind this.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 24, 2005, 11:56:05 AM
A look at the TMC and Thiel common PAC  opponents thus far:

TMC vs. Bethany Won 33-15 : 388 yds of offense, gave up 259 yds on defense
Thiel vs. Bethany Won 41-7 : 294 yds offense, gave up 234 yds on defense

TMC vs GCC Won 15-7 : 171 yds offense, gave up 236 yds on defense
Thiel vs GCC Won 30-0 : 440 yds offense, gave up 146 yds on defense

TMC vs Wesmin Won 17-3 : 327 yds offense, gave up 150 yds on defense
Thiel vs Wesmin Won 34-0 : 482 yds offense, gave up 123 yds on defense

TMC vs Waynes Won 13-7 : 309 yds offense, gave up 325 yds on defense
Thiel vs Waynes Won 35-28 : 433 yds offense, gave up 331 yds on defense

TMC outscored common PAC opponents 78-32 Thiel outscored common PAC opponents 140-35. 

TMC gained a total of 1,195 yds on Off & gave up 970 yds on def.
Thiel gained a total of 1,649 yds on Off & gave up 834 yds on def.

Not sure it means much, just some insight into the common opponents so far. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 24, 2005, 12:02:22 PM
Nice Work Dutch

I am sure we will see a good game this weekend in Greenville.

Hopefully the Tomcats offense can put together a nice game plan to attack the good Saints defense. I think they will and the Tomcats will make some history this week.

Go Tomcats!!!

Pat,

Very disappointed about that comment. But then again you are the guru. I am cust curious when it comes playoff team how far these two teams go. Then I guess we will see how much of a guru you really are or aren't. Hopefully your thoughts do not screw either team when it comes time to put the bracket together.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 24, 2005, 12:14:51 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 24, 2005, 12:02:22 PM
Hopefully your thoughts do not screw either team when it comes time to put the bracket together.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  My understanding is that Pat has ALMOST as much influence on the brackets as I do - which is to say, none at all.  Unless he has psychic powers I am unaware of, I think the PAC is safe from any dissing that Pat dishes out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 24, 2005, 12:16:51 PM
If Thiel and/or W and J are not top 25 teams then where exactly do they fit into your rankings Pat---just curious
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2005, 12:25:34 PM
Pat's posted comments "...I don't have either school on my ballot -- I don't think either is a Top 25 team..." were somewhat a surprise, but don't really mean alot.

What counts is not whether one or both are a poll's Top 25.

What counts is whether one or both are Pool B top 4.

And, save that, after Pool B's done, whether one or both are Pool C top 7.

And Pat doesn't have a vote in THAT!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2005, 12:27:44 PM
Top 25 has never had an effect on brackets, indeed. No new ground broken there!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 24, 2005, 01:04:19 PM
Pat, I was never suggesting that the polls have any effect on the playoffs or seeding or any of that.  I know they don't.  I was simply asking for a reasoning behind your opinion.  I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I was just curious as to why you felt that way.  That's a fair enough question of a guru isn't it? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2005, 02:22:23 PM
Regarding the rankings, I'm just not very high on the northern reaches of the South region at all this year. I was never a Hampden-Sydney voter, Bridgewater is barely on my ballot. Not voting for Johns Hopkins.

Thiel and W&J are among teams I consider every week, but since I have had very few spots on my ballot open up, just LaCrosse, basically, and I felt Wabash deserved that vacancy. But the teams that I have lower on my ballot just haven't lost lately.

I do truly think Augustana and Central and the like are better than Thiel and W&J. That's all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 24, 2005, 06:06:57 PM
Pat,

QuoteI do truly think Augustana and Central and the like are better than Thiel and W&J. That's all.


I am no Guru but Central a one loss team already and soon to be two and heres why!....Central will not make the playoffs with having one loss already to Coe, and having to Play Wartburg who is currently the leader in that conference by a game.  They also have a bye week and Wartburg will be well rested and have two weeks of preparation against Central.  Central is also going to be traveling to Wartburg College for that game and will have their second loss of the season. 

The schedule does favor the cardinals with 2/3 remaing games coming with less then 500 ball clubs, but they will not get past Wartburg at Waverly, Iowa.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2005, 06:10:52 PM
They are rankings, not standings. And Wartburg is only a half-game ahead -- they all have one loss so it's a wash.

I don't know who the "Cardinals" are which you refer to.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gamegenie on October 25, 2005, 02:27:38 PM
Another week and The same old thoughts.  I understand why the Thiel folks are so worried about where they are in the top 25 because it its a once in a century thing for them to be ranked so you have every right to be excited about something that if you were a regular in the playoff picture you would know means nothing.  On the other hand the peolpe that go into figuring out the playoff scheme and are considered the experts usually have gave W&J some respect, and therfore this will actually benefit you poor souls that are Thiel fans.  They will both get in and niether will be able to compete for a tilte but you will definately see W&J advance and be far more succesful than Thiel.  I warned you last week to give up these pipe dreams becasue i dont want to see anyone fall down as hard as you are going to.  And for anyone to say that the W&J PRESIDENTS arent the king of the PRESIDENTS athletic conference obvioulsly are very narrow minded and have very short memories.  Decades of domination need we say any more.  So good luck to all you saps this week may your teams continue to fill your minds and hearts wiht artificial hope by capturing wins but I will be ever confident that W&J will roll on casue thats only what they have been doing for the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 25, 2005, 02:46:38 PM
Genie, I'm not sure about your analysis of the current situation in the PAC, but your mastery of the written English language certainly is impeccable. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 25, 2005, 04:05:39 PM
Sorry Gamegenie--- this year its the TOMCATS Athletic Conference---  (if they win on Saturday)-- but def not the Presidents this year
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 25, 2005, 04:19:54 PM
Game Genie,

You'd better not let Coach Sirianni find out your posting on this forum or you'll be benched for the Waynesburg game. You know he doesn't allow his players to "pop-off" on the internet.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2005, 05:06:23 PM
spliskin,

genie is NOT a current player, trust me!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 25, 2005, 05:22:57 PM
From the Wburg/GCC press release:

>>Abels led Waynesburg with 133 yards on 16 carries. Cobb completed five of 16 >>passes for 48 yards.

>>Grove City held a 37:28-22:32 edge in time of possession. Grove City out-gained >>Waynesburg, 223-205.

First of all - great win for GCC!  Congratulations are in order. 
I know this is the first year for Coach Shepas at Waynesburg, but what the heck is going on there?  ??? IMO Waynesburg had the tools to win over both GCC and TMC this year.  With the talent that is there I thought the preseason ranking of #3 in the PAC was reasonable.  Of course, they MATHEMATICALLY have an opportunity to meet that preseason expectationl - provided they win against W&J and Westmin and W&J loses to TMC too.   Not a very likely scenario.  Anyone have any thoughts as to how Wburg got to this point?

BTW - Please do not feed the troll.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 25, 2005, 06:28:43 PM
Old Phart,

Shepas was the football coach at Massilion outside of Canton,OH for years.  In fact he was quite impressive there as a coach during his tenure except for the last few years, but from what has been told to me by several parents and former players was that everyone in the town wanted him out.  For years they did, and when his contract was finnally up they did not rehire him back.  Now he is at Waynesburg and time will tell his outcome there also.  Give him a few years to recruit and get his recruiting classes in there just like at Thiel with Leiphiemer.  Then we will be able to judge how succesful or dissapointment he has been. 

You are right though with all that athletic talent there you would think they would be able to get the ball more to hunter hawkins abels and there other runningback that comes in for abels is tough too!  Also, it might not be his or the coaches fault because this team was run by Dumm for 4 years.  The Dumm was lights out and always very accurate in his throws.  Cobb does not seem to have the same velocity or accuracy game in and game out. 

On a side note....Massilion (Shepas old team) beat St. Ignatius this year for the first time in over 17 years I believe.  I know its been awhile but they recently said it was 17 or 18 years. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 25, 2005, 07:02:56 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 25, 2005, 06:28:43 PM
  Give him a few years to recruit and get his recruiting classes in there just like at Thiel with Leiphiemer.  Then we will be able to judge how succesful or dissapointment he has been. 

Thanks for the insight CC.  I know that Leip had a somewhat easier time starting at Thiel because, initially, it just couldn't get that much worse.  Shepas has more of a challenge inheriting a .500+ team.  Of course, it will be interesting to see how Shepas recruits.  I forget that former HS coaches have to make a big adjustment when they go to college level where recruiting becomes a critical issue.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 25, 2005, 08:09:26 PM
OldPhart,

I think part of the reason Waynesburg has struggled is a new coach, more importantly like CC said,  they have struggled due to the loss of Dumm.  Abels and Daniels are good backs, but without the threat of a solid passing game teams have been able to focus solely on stopping the run.  Hunter and Hawkins are good too, they just don't have anyone to get them the ball right now. 

I think this is the case with GCC and Westminster as well.  Both have capable backs, but struggle to throw the football.  Obviously, when you are one dimensional offensively defenses will just try to force you into relying on your weakness. 

Being balanced goes a long way.  You don't have to look any further than Thiel and W&J to see examples of that.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 25, 2005, 09:03:13 PM
If GENIE is a W&J grad, I may as well sell my diploma on ebay.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Senor RedTackle on October 25, 2005, 09:19:58 PM
This guy thinks that the REAL talent in D3 football is in upstate NY in the Liberty League baby...look out for RPI, Hobart, and Union!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 25, 2005, 09:57:36 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 25, 2005, 09:03:13 PM
If GENIE is a W&J grad, I may as well sell my diploma on ebay.

Haha  :D I wouldn't go that far.  Most people on this board represent their institutions of higher learning in a better light.  There are of course exceptions....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gamegenie on October 25, 2005, 10:30:15 PM
well dutch if you are so smart why on earth were you at the Thiel / Westminister game?

and to you burgh boy you prob should sell your diploma cause you spend your whole day on d3football post patterns sounds like you need a life or a job for starters.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 26, 2005, 07:40:10 AM
A round of Applause for Game Genie for correctly spelling everything right in his sentances!!  You still need to work on the completion of words such as Probably and Because.  That was only your third post you have plenty of time to work on that, but to come out and trash people who have been posting on this board for years you must have some serious stones brother. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 26, 2005, 08:03:10 AM
I "prob should sell" ?

:)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 26, 2005, 08:11:24 AM
Does anybody know anything about the Blankenship injury in the Thiel / Westminster game?  Did he suffer a broken ankle or leg or anything like that?  He went down badly and it was really rough watching him get pulled off that torn-up, muddy field.  I'm just counting my lucky stars that Satterfield had already come out of the game, because THAT would have been a nightmare.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 26, 2005, 08:37:43 AM
There is a rumor that he broke it but I will try and find out what the story is with Blankenship's ankle.

Prediction Time:

Saturday, October 29

Chicago at Bethany, 12:00

I am predicting that Bethany will pull through this weekend down in West VA. I think they will pull out a victory and beat Chicago on thier home turf and then celebrate all night long at Bubba's

Bethany 13 Chicago 6

Grove City at Alfred, 1:00

GCC's defense will be fired up ready to go after beating Waynesburg last week. Behind the running game of the Wing T they will control the ball and Rowdybush will have a big game for the "O" while Margo and others take care of buisness in New York

GCC 17 Alfred 7

Frostburg St. at Westminster, 1:00

Westminster beat Frostburg St on thier home turf after having a rough time last weekend with the Tomcats. Buggey and the D win this slopfest in New Wilmington but its not pretty.

Westmini 10 Frostburg St 7

Thomas More at Thiel, 1:30

The game of the week in the PAC takes place in Greenville this week as the Tomcats can wrap up the conference title with a win while the Saints can clinch a "Co-Champ" title with the possibility to win the whole thing vs W&J coming up. However, I think the Tomcats stay unbeaten behind the running of Minton and passing game of Satterfield, Chambers, McEntire, and Lascola. I also think the blocking of the Thiel "O" line and thier FB's will be something TM has not seen. The Tomcats will face arguable the best defense in the PAC thus far. However this defense has not faced the likes of the Tomcats or Presidents and get a look at the upper tier of the PAC this weekend. Thomas More will stay in it with their defense but the Tomcat defense will shut down the Saints offense better then the Saints can shut down the Tomcats "O".

Thiel 24 Thomas More 10


W&J at Waynesburg, 1:30

This game will be better then most people think. Abels and the running game will keep the Yellow Jackets close on thier homefield. Tenney will do all he can to stop the explosive W&J offense but they will not be able to do enough. Edwards and Krepps with the backfield combo of Mendel and Zitzelburger will be too much as the Yellow Jackets drop another one at home in the PAC. The Presidents defense is also improving every week and will stop the Yellow Jackets run and force their not so good passing game to beat them.

W&J 31 Waynesburg 14

Good Luck PAC!!!! & Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 26, 2005, 08:55:19 AM
SaintsFan,

You've been laying low and staying under the radar this week.  Are you making the trip to Greenville this weekend?  Should be a good game.  What's your forecast?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 26, 2005, 09:40:13 AM
Pitt,

THat is a bold prediction of GCC going into NY and beating a 6-1 Alfred team who still has to play their two toughest games after GCC.  Personally it will be a tune up for Alfred as they put the finishing nuts and bolts to their offense and defenses and they will give it to GCC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 26, 2005, 09:41:58 AM
Great question Dutch!

Saints fan you traveling up 79 to see the TMC vs Tomcats???


Anyone else going???  It will be much better weather this weekend for all games in the PAC, and I should be in Greenville on Saturday.
Title: Who wins the PAC???
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 26, 2005, 10:35:32 AM
Would like to hear everyones thoughts!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 26, 2005, 10:37:18 AM
Pat, any way we can move the PAC poll inside this forum?? thanks!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 26, 2005, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on October 26, 2005, 10:37:18 AM
Pat, any way we can move the PAC poll inside this forum?? thanks!

Done (and I didn't know I could do that, so thanks for letting me learn something new).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 26, 2005, 11:39:13 AM
CC,

I am heading to Greenville this weekend to hopefully watch the Tomcats secure their first PAC crown in 30 odd years.

I think Alfred my take it easy on them and under prepare with their bigger games coming up in the next two weeks.....plus you have to root for the PAC!


Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 26, 2005, 11:41:44 AM
No problem Ron!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2005, 12:49:17 PM
I won't be able to make the game this weekend....due to some surgery I had on Monday.  That is where I've been....not really laying low...just a little layed up right now.

I will post some thoughts on the game later today/tomorrow.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 26, 2005, 12:58:17 PM
This is from the South playoffs forum, but Ron got Brett Elliott the QB from Linfield on the Heisman Ballot for this year.  If everyone votes for him we could possibly get a d3 guy on the finalists ballot for the first time ever.  The kid definelty gets my vote.  You can find the link on the top of d3football.coms homepage. 

Saints Fan,

Sorry to hear about your surgery and not being able to make it up this weekend.  Get well soon and I am sure you will be listening to the game somewhere.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2005, 01:04:12 PM
I will say that we do (Thomas More) does owe Thiel bigtime from what happened in 2001. 

For those of you that don't know/remember....Tomcats gave Thomas More their only loss that year and it kept them out of the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 26, 2005, 01:47:02 PM
I didn't realize that SaintsFan, as if either team needed any more motivation for this one.  Saturday can't get here soon enough. Sorry you won't be able to enjoy the splendor that is Greenville, PA.  Hopefully there will be games with this much at stake for both teams in the future and you'll have a reason to make the trip North.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 26, 2005, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 26, 2005, 12:58:17 PM
This is from the South playoffs forum, but Ron got Brett Elliott the QB from Linfield on the Heisman Ballot for this year.  If everyone votes for him we could possibly get a d3 guy on the finalists ballot for the first time ever.  The kid definelty gets my vote.  You can find the link on the top of d3football.coms homepage. 

Cartel, thanks for the props, but all we did (I just suggested we try - it took most of the D3fb staff and a few of our friends) was get Elliott on the online ballot.  The top three vote getters on the site WILL receive a first, second, or third place Heisman vote.  We could get Brett up there and that would be a good thing for all of D3.  The kid only threw 61 TD's last year ... an all-division record. 

Click here (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=129) to access Pat's Daily Dose article, which contains the voting link.  He's already over 300 votes today. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 26, 2005, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2005, 01:04:12 PM
I will say that we do (Thomas More) does owe Thiel bigtime from what happened in 2001.

Hmmm - D3Football and I remember that as 2000 not 2001.  Can't be getting up a grudge against Leip - since he wasn't there yet.  But anyhow,  Thiel was only returning the favor of the loss from the year before.   

Oh, wait! Now I understand - you really DO mean that  TMC OWES Thiel a debt of gratitude for that loss  ;D - seeing as how the loss to Thiel must have inspired the Saints to go undefeated in the 2001 regular season AND get to the second round of the playoffs.  TMC probably just needed the wake-up call that Thiel provided going into the 2001 year and the playoffs  :D.  Way to go Tomcats - got their first playoff win (by proxy) in 2001!!

Seriously though, while there were a couple of quality wins by TMC in 2000 I think the problem with getting into the playoffs was that TMC's schedule was pretty weak overall.  Don't know if it was just a down year for the competition or if there was an intentional weakening of the schedule in order to "juice up" the win-loss stats.  Regardless, the Thiel loss almost certainly cost TMC the playoffs that year.  I'm not sure if Thiel took the win from them or if TMC gave it to them - those were pretty bleak times to be a Tomcat fan.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2005, 04:18:23 PM
Yeah, I agree Oldphart.

I was on that team that beat Thiel in 1999.  It was my senior year.  I remember the Tomcats had a stud LB that year....wore #11.  We met a few times...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 26, 2005, 04:27:11 PM
Oh yes,  Dante Darby wore #11.......he actually took a couple years off I believe and played in 2002 for his senior year---great linebacker....he is actually a coach at Thiel right now---check the website
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 26, 2005, 06:13:53 PM
It's driving me absolutely crazy, but I've got a family obligation on Saturday, and thus will be unable to make it up to Greenville this weekend.  ARGH!  You can bet that I will be frequently checking the score right here on d3Football.com.  Everybody make sure to vote Elliott for Heisman!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 26, 2005, 06:51:48 PM
Quote from: ThielFan on October 26, 2005, 06:13:53 PM
It's driving me absolutely crazy, but I've got a family obligation on Saturday, and thus will be unable to make it up to Greenville this weekend.  ARGH!  You can bet that I will be frequently checking the score right here on d3Football.com.  Everybody make sure to vote Elliott for Heisman!!

If you can receive it, radio station 96.7 "The River" carries all the Thiel football games (and a subset of the BB games).  Unfortunately, 96.7's parent company, Cumulus broadcasting, will NOT allow the games to be webcast.  >:( Anyone who knows of a near Greenville radio station who doesn't have this prohibition might want to let Thiel athletics know about it.  If you check Thiel's roster you can bet there are a number of Thiel fans in Florida that can't get their football fix.

I would suggest that with the new broadcast comm minor that maybe Thiel will resurrect their radio station and do it themselves.  But I am afraid that I have bad memories of a Thiel student's play-by-play of "Oh my God - will you look at that!  I have never seen anything like it ..." and other less than enlightening utterances.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on October 27, 2005, 07:21:46 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on October 26, 2005, 06:51:48 PM

If you can receive it, radio station 96.7 "The River" carries all the Thiel football games (and a subset of the BB games).  Unfortunately, 96.7's parent company, Cumulus broadcasting, will NOT allow the games to be webcast.  >:( Anyone who knows of a near Greenville radio station who doesn't have this prohibition might want to let Thiel athletics know about it.  If you check Thiel's roster you can bet there are a number of Thiel fans in Florida that can't get their football fix.

I would suggest that with the new broadcast comm minor that maybe Thiel will resurrect their radio station and do it themselves.  But I am afraid that I have bad memories of a Thiel student's play-by-play of "Oh my God - will you look at that!  I have never seen anything like it ..." and other less than enlightening utterances.

Yes, I do enjoy listening to the Thiel games on The River when I cannot be there... I chewed my nails off sitting on the couch throughout the second half of the Waynesburg game.  Unfortunately, I will be in Erie (or maybe Edinboro) and I don't think that I will be able to get reception.  I'll have to keep my fingers crossed on that one.  I'll definitely be with the Tomcats in spirit though, I plan to wear Thiel regalia as always on football Saturdays!  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 08:46:38 AM
Anyone think Waynesburg can pull of an upset against WJ this weekend???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 27, 2005, 08:52:13 AM
CC - I doubt it.

How do you guys like the game broadcast's on the River?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 09:06:24 AM
Dutch,

Being from Cleveland it does not travel far enough for me to hear it.  Luckily for the Waynesburg game and Westminster games I was able to listen to it on their schools broadcasting on the Internet.  Its amazing that Thiel does not have anything for their Internet with all the wireless technology they put on the campus and laptops to every student iniative they recently did.  I could not tell you how the broadcasting on the river is, but at the WJ game I did have a conversation with the guy who is in charge of the broadcasting of the Games on the River.  Currently the games only go as far as Youngstown, OH.  Next year he said those are definetly in the plans to extend coverage of the Tomcats game into Cleveland further and throughout PA.  The gentelman also told me broadcasting the games on the Internet is the most important problem to address in the offseason.  I would expect to hear these games on the net next year, and also like Old Phart said the adding of a Comm Minor should also bring this program to life!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 27, 2005, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on October 27, 2005, 08:52:13 AM
CC - I doubt it.

How do you guys like the game broadcast's on the River?


I like the broadcast I think they do a pretty good job with the game. Especially the older guy I can not remember his name.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 27, 2005, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 27, 2005, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on October 27, 2005, 08:52:13 AM
CC - I doubt it.

How do you guys like the game broadcast's on the River?


I like the broadcast I think they do a pretty good job with the game. Especially the older guy I can not remember his name.

His name is Hugh Ringer.  I was inconspicuously looking for reviews of my first stab at doing the games on radio, I'm the color guy for the broadcasts.  I've never done it before and when the former guy wasn't able to do it this year they asked if I would fill in.  - Hopefully I don't sound completely incompetent!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 27, 2005, 11:19:22 AM
Dutch - I only listened to the games when I couldn't attend.  So my data points are Bluffton, W&J, and Waynesburg.  That said, I would say you are coming along.  You sounded rather awkward for the Bluffton game.  There is a definite learning curve in getting the timing right in radio broadcast.  By the time we got to the Waynesburg game I felt you were doing a much better job.  Of course, I didn't hear THAT much of the Waynesburg game since I had to leave it periodically to paste on another nitroglycerin patch.  :D
BTW, my gripe about not being able to hear Thiel games on the net is really
directed to Cumulus.  My impression is that the River has to do what "the man" says.

CC - Waynesburg over W&J?  I would lay odds 8-1 against.  Before any indignant Wburg fan (do they exist on this board  ???) wants me to put up $$ - I don't gamble.  For the lottery my philosophy is "you gotta play to lose." I think Waynesburg will put up a few scores, but W&J will put up a couple more.  Could be a bit closer if Abels is able to run well and keep the W&J O off the field.  I figure Sirianni has the troops fired up knowing that a loss to either Wburg or TMC almost certainly translates to sitting at home for the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 27, 2005, 12:36:47 PM
Dutch,

I have only listened to one game and it was for the first quarter vs Bethany. I was running late. It sounded good from both guys. It just seemed like the older guy Hugh was more experienced. I think both guys made good points and were right on!

So good job!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:10:52 PM
Here are the South REgion Rankings.....Lets hear some thoughts!!!!

South Region 
1. Trinity (Texas) 5-0 6-0
2. Ferrum 7-0 7-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 5-1
4. Thiel 7-0 7-0
5. Bridgewater (Virginia) 4-1 5-1
6. Hardin-Simmons 5-1 6-1
7. Johns Hopkins 6-0 7-0
8. Salisbury 2-0 6-1
9. Washington and Jefferson 5-1 7-1
10. Wesley 4-0 7-1
West Region 
1. Linfield 4-0 6-0
2. Wisconsin-Whitewater 6-0 7-0
3. St. John's (Minnesota) 7-0 8-0
4. Occidental 6-0 6-0
5. St. Olaf 7-0 7-0
6. Coe 5-1 6-1
7. Monmouth (Illinois) 7-0 8-0
8. Concordia-Moorhead 5-1 6-1
9. Whitworth 4-1 4-2
10. Central (Iowa) 6-1 6-1








 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:11:31 PM
I am goign to have to do some reasearch about these teams before I start ranting and raving and anything!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 27, 2005, 01:12:48 PM
Thanks, Hugh's been doing it for a long time so he's pretty good.  I just enjoy getting the best seat in the house every weekend.  :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 27, 2005, 01:15:09 PM
I dont have any complaints about the South Region rankings---except one team.  How did Ferrum get such a high regional ranking??? anyone
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:15:52 PM
Here are the South Region Rankings.....Lets hear some thoughts!!!!

South Region 
1. Trinity (Texas) 5-0 6-0
2. Ferrum 7-0 7-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 5-1
4. Thiel 7-0 7-0
5. Bridgewater (Virginia) 4-1 5-1
6. Hardin-Simmons 5-1 6-1
7. Johns Hopkins 6-0 7-0
8. Salisbury 2-0 6-1
9. Washington and Jefferson 5-1 7-1
10. Wesley 4-0 7-1
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:35:30 PM
That is my only complaint also is Ferrum.  I looked at their schedule and the SOS can not be stronger than Thiels.  This is no indiciator by any means the SOS, but i will say this.  They beat Emory and Henry 29-13!  Only 29-13!!!! I understand a Win is a Win but only by 16!!!  Everyone in this forum knows WJ gave it to E&H 50 rip and would do it again!!  Thiel beat WJ by three in OT and everyone in this forum should have something to say about Ferrum being number 3.  OH well let them have it now because it wont be there for long!!! They also have to get past Christopher newport to win the conference and get the automatic bid and Newport is only a game behind them for the conference lead.  Its all in the air!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2005, 01:41:20 PM
Wesley got blown out in their loss.  Not only that but shut out also.  I'm not so sure about them...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 27, 2005, 02:43:45 PM
I would have put DePauw there, but they barely beat lost to Wesley in week one and apparently the AA thinks week 1 games mean more than week 8.   >:(

[edited to fix my error which said DPU beat Wesley when they in actuality lost to them.]
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 27, 2005, 03:40:25 PM
Cartel,

There will be some reshuffling of the rankings over then next 3 weeks as some teams will lose late-season games. Still too early to tell who will be ranked where and who will host who. I find it interesting that you are down on Ferrum without having seen them play. You know looking at scores and stats & who they beat doesn't tell you much. Ferrum is undefeated at this point and regardless of who you play, that is a feat in today's competitive D3 world. All these teams can do is keep winning to secure their place in the region, especially Pool B & C teams.

I think it is more curious that Mt. Union got bumped down to #4 in the North after the ONU loss. The committee's attitude appears to be "What have you done for me lately?", paying little attention to Mount's history in the post-season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2005, 03:43:38 PM
Gotcha, BFB.


Thanks for explanation
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D O.C. on October 27, 2005, 04:07:15 PM
Congratulations to Chris Edwards on his nomination.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 05:48:30 PM
Spliskin,

No new fact that there is still 3 weeks to the season left and shuffling will take place. 
You are right I have not seen them play and I am basing Ferrum on a game vs E&H.

Let me ask you this:
Have you seen them play, what is your basis on Ferrum? and why are typing info about the North region with ONU and Mount in this forum? 

Ferrum is undefeated yes, but so is Thiel.  Look at their schedules there is not one playoff contender in any of Ferrum's victories this season.   One possibilty exists if Christopher Newport beats them to force a 3 way tie in that conference. In fact Ferrum's SOS is rated 26th in the country while Thiel's is at 9th.   Both Methodist and Newport have two losses and they are most likely a long shot for making playoffs.  Thiel has WJ (one loss team) (that is they make the playoffs, which i believe they will.)  Ferrum can recieve the automatic bid and Thiel and WJ both do not which shows their strengths more as a team standpoint for being involved in the playoff race still, and bringing their physical and mental toughness every week.   You bring up Mounts history Ferrum does not have deep playoff history and either does thiel. 

It does sound the its what have you done for me lately from the NCAA

But if you want to live by that you are saying to me the Tomcats deserve a higher seeding than Ferrum
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 27, 2005, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 05:48:30 PM

But if you want to live by that you are saying to me the Tomcats deserve a higher seeding than Ferrum
To quote Kenny Rogers "There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done."  Sure it would be nice to see Thiel at a higher seed at this point.  I do tend to scratch my head on the initial placement of Ferrum.  If the USAC had a better postseason history I might buy into it - but this is not the case.  Maybe Thiel's all-too-close 2OT win against Wburg has something to do with it.  All of Ferrum's wins have been in regulation.

Geez though - I am glad the current #4 seed in the South doesn't have to play the current #4 in the North!  I would personally swap the #2 and 4 in that region as well.  Yes, Wabash is good - but putting those two OAC teams behind them seems odd.

The other question I have is, supposing W&J wins out - do you think they will be assured a bid?  I know the South can send more than 8 - but am a little concerned at their initial placement.  At this point, I am thinking that in the East that LL's top 2 will go and that their 3rd one (currently RPI) will drop out to make room for W&J to ship in.  Is this reasonable or am I missing some additional AQ in the East who will take the 3rd LL spot? ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 28, 2005, 12:49:00 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 05:48:30 PM

Let me ask you this:
Have you seen them play, what is your basis on Ferrum? and why are typing info about the North region with ONU and Mount in this forum? 


Why are you dissing Ferrum on the PAC board when they are not a PAC team? Go to the "south region playoff watch" or the USAC board for that. I'm simply responding tit for tat to your post. You opened the door by questioning the wisdom of the committee on the position of the rankings. I pointed out the Mt. Union ranking simply to prove a point. They are the 4th ranked team in the North Region right now...do you think that the 4 teams above them are better than Mount? I guess not, so as I said it's too early to be complaining about seedings at this point.

Thiel hasn't won the PAC since 1972. They still have to challenge TMC to get that job done (no easy task), then win their last two non-conference games to secure their spot in the post season. If they get it done Saturday it will be the first time in school history they've won 8 games, let alone make the playoffs. I'd say you should be pleased they are ranked at the same level as Mt. Union in their respective regions rather than complaining about how unfair things are.

BTW, your talking to a Tomcat fan who wants to see them get it done. I am concerned that guys like you are hindering their ability to focus on the task at hand of simply winning their next game by popping off on this board. Let the games play out and for God's sakes, at least "ACT" like you've been there before.

To answer your question about Ferrum; no I have not seen them play & it doesn't matter how good they are or are not. Thiel needs to focus on TMC, not Ferrum.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 28, 2005, 08:30:52 AM
Spliskin,

Dissing Ferrum?  Am I complaining about the seeding??  Am I pleased that they are ranked at the same level as Mount? 

Never dissed just brought up facts about Ferrum and their SOS that makes their strong 3rd place ranking questionable.  Everyone in this board was taken by suprise by that and it just was not me. 

Whose complaining about the seeding?   I am not complaining about the seeding its an amazing feat for what Thiel has accomplished already and will continue to do this season.  There is not one sentance about Thiels ranking in there, and that is because I am proud of where they are and they have accomplished through 7 games this season. They deserve every spec of it and just like every other Alum wishing they could be on this years team.  Nobody is making Thiel believe they are better than they are.  This isn't about dissing (we are not children) its just bring up facts and the fact that they played E&H was a coincidence and something I decided to bring to light. 

About Mount, I will not even touch that subject. 

Quote
Quote
BTW, your talking to a Tomcat fan who wants to see them get it done. I am concerned that guys like you are hindering their ability to focus on the task at hand of simply winning their next game by popping off on this board. Let the games play out and for God's sakes, at least "ACT" like you've been there before.
Quote

Trust me, Leip will have those guys focused on one thing 4 quarters of consistent football on a even keel as he likes to say.   They are reading their playbooks this week or studying their books for a test, and not checking on two PAC fan in the PAC forum.  They make those guys realize that nothing can be taken for grant it and that there is no tommorrow.  As someone who has played under Leip you quickly learn the history of Thiel and doing whatever it takes week in and week out.   Ive been there before on a state champion team in highschool and 4 years of RYFP at Thiel.   
I believe I have been there with the Band of Brothers for 4 years and counting.

PS  Look around you everyone in this board is talking about the possibility of the playoffs and what would happen.  If you want to chastise me thats fine, but everyone who has made a post about playoff outcomes should also be on your S$%t List.  We speculate because are still devoted to our respective teams and want to see the best happen for them and every team in the PAC.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 28, 2005, 08:51:38 AM
There was a really good article in the Post Gazette (Pgh Paper) today on Satterfield and the Tomcats. I think its great that Satterfield has had so much success because he is one of the hardest workers and most one of the most dedicated person I have ever met.

Congrats men and keep taking care of the little things so the big things can happen. Stay focused and good luck this week!

Go Tomcats!!!

Also congrats are also in order for W&J's premier QB. Edwards was recognized as I am sure most of you saw for the scholarship. Congrats and keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 28, 2005, 09:08:26 AM
PittTB, thanks for pointing out that article. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 28, 2005, 10:25:09 AM
here is a link to that article about Thiel--> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05301/596574.stm
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 28, 2005, 04:38:56 PM
Heres a Question for the PAC Board to get some action going on here....


Toughest Offensive and Defensive Players to play against in the last 20 years from the PAC???  Guys who every saturday you knew they were going to come out and have great games and was a constant menace to defend against???

On defense the guy who you dreaded going up against and you knew you were gonna be in for a slugfest all day with???  Someone who you coudlnt run the ball up the middle with or throw over the deep third of the field over???? 

Lets hear some names!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 28, 2005, 10:18:13 PM
Dutch Boy,

Nice job on the Thiel/Satterfield article. Well written and a positive message for the Tomcats and the Thiel faithful. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2005, 10:05:08 AM
Its a great day to be a Saint!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 29, 2005, 10:09:02 AM
For the time being anyway!  :)

Good day for football here SaintsFan, I'm looking forward to it.  Hopefully we'll have a clean injury free game.  Of course I also hope the Tomcats come out on top! 

Good luck to the PAC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2005, 10:57:47 AM
Dutch,

You are going to like what you see in TMC's defense.  IMO, the points will be hard to come by today for both schools. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 29, 2005, 12:08:32 PM
SaintsFAN - If Dutch and I like what we see today in TMC's defense, the points will not be as hard to come by  ... for Thiel ;D

Regardless - I figure both sides' fans will make a lot of noise at today's game:  the Thiel campus tailgate event is featuring chili (with beans) today  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on October 29, 2005, 05:29:38 PM
SaintsFan,

24 - 14 Thiel Final.  I was impressed with TMC's LB's and secondary. They could not stop the run though.  I was impressed with #2 Willis the cornerback.  TMC did a good job against the pass, but Minton ran for 217 yards on 37 carries.  Thiel had a couple of 12 and 15 play drives and held the ball for over 40 minutes.  The score could have been more lop-sided Thiel made some mistakes inside the 25 a few times.  No major injuries for either team that I'm aware of.  TMC only managed 23 yards rushing on 24 carries. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2005, 05:44:16 PM
Thiel Tomcats, your 2005 PAC Champions!

Congratulations.  It's been a long time, a long road.

Thiel is the third different champion in the conference in three years (unspeakable prior to 2003)...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 29, 2005, 06:55:28 PM
Dutch - I am just as happy that the running game did the bulk of the work today.  Take what they give you. 

Here are some further ruminations regarding today's contest:

A think I saw 3 Satterfield incompletions that were tipped or could have been picked off.  While I think that W&J will win their match with TMC, I think they will have to be careful in the passing game.  Of note: Satterfield's streak of games with a touchdown pass has ended.

Kudos to the Thiel crowd today.  I think that they were much more into the game than they have been all year.   I am certain that they helped burn one of TMC's time-outs which was very useful down the stretch.

I will  say that TMC is a class act.  Those who were off the field were consistently cheering on their teammates.  I didn't hear any sideline trash talk or cussing that I have heard from certain other teams. 

Officiating seemed to be pretty even - I think there were a few generous spots, but on the whole I think they balanced out.   Few penalties and relatively injury free - although that blocking penalty on the interception return made a huge difference for TMC.  I figure that the ref saw it - I was too busy watching the return.  I assume it was a decent call.

It seemed to be an off day for Thiel's secondary.  There were a couple of long completions that hung in the air for a long time and the secondary was unable to recover and defend the pass.

Glad to have this one over.  Congrats to all the Tomcat players on their conference championship.  Enjoy it today and please forget about it tomorrow and focus on Buff State - sorry I will be out of state for that game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 29, 2005, 08:09:00 PM
I would like to see where GameGenie is now. The Tomcats were winners today and won the 2005 PAC Championship. The score was actually closer then the game appeared to be. Thiel flundered several long drives which equaled zero points. The Thiel defense proved today that they are indeed the best defense in the conference. The offense ran with power behind Minton and the vetern offensive line that opened up holes big enough to drive a truck through. Thomas More was indeed a class act and a good football team. I was very impressed with the defense especially the secondary and Carlisle. The Saints were very classy and as mentioned in a previous post did not talk trash. There defense was able to put one in but was called back because of a stupid penalty by on the return. The TD would have given them the lead and would have gave Thiel a real gut check. I am glad that Thomas More is in the conference because I believe they will make the conference that much better. The Saints offense was dominated and managed very little on the ground and under 200 yards in the whole game. I am looking forward to seeing what the Saints will do vs W&J. Again congrats go out to the Tomcats for a dominating performance!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on October 29, 2005, 08:20:28 PM
ITS A GREAT DAY TO BE A TOMCAT, OR A PAC CHAMPION............ OH WAIT NOW YOU CAN BE BOTH..........



GO BALDWIN
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2005, 08:22:21 PM
Congratulations to Thiel on their conference championship....they've come a long way since 1999 when I first saw the team.

I am a little disappointed in today's result, but am encouraged because TMC is a young team.  I believe we get Carlisle back, along with West and the rest of the defense.....and the offense will have some maturity after this season.  

Sounds like Thiel earned this win by moving the ball against the TMC Defense...good luck the rest of the way.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2005, 09:17:48 PM
Great Game on both sides today the game was not only exciting with dramatic big plays and twists and turns but it was a class act by both sides. 

Tomcats continue to put in your hardwork because next week Buff St is here to take it your dreams, goals, and aspirations away from you.  Buff St. has played spoiler to PAC teams in the last few years with suprised wins over WJ and over Thiel.

TMC is a very classy group of men.  With the score being close at the end and the PAC championship on the line there could of easily been some brawls.  I am impressed with your coaching staff and players especially Carslisle.  Kid is a stud, I believe he had over 17 tackles today.  With his ability to work from sideline to sideline and strength to stuff the middle he has shown why he will be the PAC Defensive Player of the Year, and also All-American material.  The thiel Oline dominated up front but Carslisle was still able to get off his blocks and make plays, unfortenatly most of the time he was making them 5,6,7 yards down field.  Him and west and also their corners played a solid game.  TMC has pretty good size for a D3 team, but they were getting knocked off the ball by the Thiel O-line, and that is where the battle was being won by Thiel.  Not only offensively but defensively and that is why they won the game.

Again,  TMC is young and you have already accomplished much and the season is not over.  Goodluck next week against WJ and you too can play a spoiler role!

Tomcats enjoy it you have earned it!!!!  Can't wait till next saturday for Senior day against BUFF ST!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on October 30, 2005, 07:28:24 PM
TMC's secondary is a scary bunch. Great athletes at every position. The LB's also run well and pursue to the ball. That being said their game against Thiel proves once again that great defense starts with your d-line and TMC is in trouble here. TC's OLine physically dominated TMC's D-line the entire day. They were getting knocked back 5 yards off the ball on nearly every run and that nullified TMC's Lber's as the pile was getting pushed into them.

Carlisle is a gifted player athletically and has good size but he seemed to be guessing in trying to run through gaps - he didn't guess right too many times (it didn't look like designed blitzes in most cases). I don't see him as "Defensive Player of the Year" in the conference after watching this game. I am somewhat surprised they credited him with 18 tackles because he wasnt' that much of a factor to be honest and like you said most of the tackles he did have were 5-10 yards downfield.

Thiel should have put 40-50 points on the board with the way they controlled the line of scrimmage but they shot themselves in the foot & missed opportunities too many times. They need to finish more drives on offense if they plan on getting it done down the stretch. You can't let a good football team hang around untill the 4th quarter or they'll bite you hard.

TMC's offense has some big play makers at the WR position. They were able to get behind the TC secondary on a few occasions and Ellis has a pretty decent arm (a little slow on the release but accurate). The biggest diffence I saw again was up front. TC's D-line manhandled TMC's OLine all day. TMC couldn't run the ball at all (I think they had only 3 yards rushing) and Ellis was under heavy pressure all day long. The successful throws were mostly 3 step as they couldn't protect any longer than that.

I was impressed with the character of the TMC team as they fought tooth and nail for 4 quarters and never packed it in. The defense was on the field forever as TC held the ball for 40+ minutes to TMC's 19+ minutes of possession. They stepped up their play on defense everytime TC got into the redzone but like I said, it was more of TC shooting themself than getting stopped (penalties, dropped passes, errant throws, ect).

It will be interesting to see how TMC does against W&J next week. I suspect that many of their guys will be banged up after this physical game. W&J better be prepared to run the football because TMC has the athletes in the secondary to match-up with W&J's pass game & I could see TMC picking off some passes if W&J airs it out all day. Of course, looking at W&J's last few games (stats-wise), it looks like they've gone to their run game much more since the loss to TC several weeks ago (Maybe Bob G. can confirm). If W&J runs the ball enough times I don't think they'll have any problems next week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 30, 2005, 09:13:45 PM
Also posted on the PAC conference board is that Carslisle has 51 tackles through 3 games!!!  That is an impressive stat but will not gurantee success all the time.  TMC vs WJ matchup next weekend will be interesting because like you said Spliskin they can macthup in the secondary with them, but WJ's O-line is tough and will be able to give Edwards the protection needed and also the Wideouts their time to run their routes to get open for him.  The size that TMC has is impressive, but exactly like you and everyone else has said was the domination upfront and they do not have that right now.  Thiel's Oline is very experienced and technically sound group and that was the difference maker. 

WJ's line is just as talented but not as sound as Thiels upfront and TMC does have a better chance at winning the battle on the lines.  I think it will be another close and hard fought game next week.  WJ will eventually tack on a few more touchdowns late in the 4th and win to keep their improving playoff hopes alive!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 31, 2005, 06:51:20 PM
Prediction Time!!!

Lets see if I can nail another score this week as I correctly predicted the final of the Thiel Thomas More game last week.

Saturday, November 5

Grove City at Westminster, 1:00

Westminster gets the nod at home after playing Frostburg St tough last week. I think that this game will be very low scoreing and will be decided by a field goal either way but I am going to give it to the Titans since they are playing on thier home turf.

Westmini 17 GCC 14

Buffalo State at Thiel, 1:00

The PAC champs continue to roll this week when they seek out revenge against a Buff State team that possibly prevented the Tomcats from reaching the national playoffs. Behind the running of Minton and passing combination of Satterfield and his wideouts I can't see Buff State competeing with the Tomcats. Emotion will also run high as this could be the last home game for the Sr's unless they win out and host a playoff game. The defense will hold Buff St under 250 yards and pitch another shutout.

Thiel 35 Buff St 0

Carnegie Mellon at Bethany, 1:00

Bethany looks to get back on thier feet after dropping every game this season since the opener. I think the Tartens will cause troubles for this defense with their Wing T offense and hand the Bison another loss in the 2005 season. I think the Bison will fight, but it won't be enough.

Carnegie Mellon 28 Bethany 14

Waynesburg at Frostburg St., 1:30

Frostburg St battles another PAC foe this week when the Yellow Jackets travel to Maryland. I think the Jackets rebound after losing to the Presidents behind the rushing attack of Abels and thier defense. I look for the Jackets to sting Frostburg St.

Waynesburg 28 Frostburg St 10

W&J at Thomas More, 1:30

What looks to be the game of the week in the PAC newcomer TMC battles another upper tier PAC foe. I think although the Saints will be up for the game, the Presidents will take advantage of thier ability to run and throw the ball against a good Saints D. All and all I see this game being very competitive but I give the win to the Presidents as Thomas More will have trouble putting the ball in the endzone.

W&J 31 Thomas More 7


Good Luck PAC

Again Congrats go out to the Thiel Tomcats for winning the 2005 PAC Championship!


Prediction for players of the week:

Offense: B. Chambers 12 catches 182 yards and 3 TD's

Defense: A. Tenney 15 tackles 1 FF 1 Fumble recovery 1 INT
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 01, 2005, 07:11:10 PM
Just a quick 'congrats' to the Thiel folks.  Hopefully there will be a playoff rematch!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 02, 2005, 08:23:07 AM
What are the thoughts of the Daily Dose not putting W&J in the playoffs with only one loss to an undefeated Thiel team???



I think things will pan out upsets will happen and the PAC will see two teams in the playoffs aslong as both Thiel and W&J take care of buisness in the remaining weeks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 08:40:01 AM
Prediction Day!! Here we go!!!

Grove City vs Westmin:

Will be a tough fought game and a couple of teams trying to finish out this season on the right note and see what they have coming back for next year.  Chumura will take care of business upfront with the rest of the Westmin DLine and shut down the Wolverines W-T attack.  Afterwards the Dline will be shoving down wingers at the Lube celebrating there W!  Buggey will have a killer day against the susceptible Grove City D, and Ross Trimmer will be the lone man to tackle Buggy on his breakaway runs and catches.  Trimmer will have a game high with 14 tackles with Chumura coming in with 13 and a sack on the day.  Buggeys two touchdown running and one on special teams will lead the way as the Titans win on their home turf.

Prediction:
GCC 21  Westminnie 34

BUFF ST. Vs Thiel

This will be a heated game as alot is already on the line from last years game and Buff St is trying to play spoiler in the PAC for the third year in a row.  They match up well against the Tomcats and have size and quality skill guys.  This will be a close matchup  but with the veteran leadership and calmness in the Oline, Satterfield, Chambers, Mr. Clutch, and the D rings in with their best performance of the year.  Minton will have to run and and the constant tempo of the tomcats will eventually lead them to the victory this week.

Buff St.  17  Thiel 27


Mellon vs Bisons

Bisons season has been in a tailspin ever since the first week and it will not get any better any time soon.  With a few higlights in their passing game the Bisons will end up on Losing side of another battle.  Not enough balance in the offense and not enough skill on the defense is their demise and they lose to a Mellon team who is playing below their potential so far this year, but is rising to the occasion every week.  Joyner will have 100 yards recieving and a score.  This kid is just as talented as some of the other recievers in this league, but unfortenatly the Bisons are not getting W's.

Mellon 35 Bisons 14

Waynesburg vs Frostburg

Frostburg continues to roll and its domination of the PAC with another victory at home this week.  Abels will run for over 100 but the lack of the threat in the passing game will allow frostburg to put 8 and 9 in the box to help shut down the Waynesburgs run game.  Hawkins and Hunter each catch 6 passes but no TD's and that is why Waynesburg will lose this weekend!

Frostburg 21  Waynesburg 10

WJ vs TMORE

WJ needs this game to continue to keep their playoff hopes alive and they will!  Tmore will need another complete game out of their D to keep themselves in the game, but another bleak performance offensively and it will not get the job done.  I will say this, WJ's run game will get the job done this game Mendel and Zitsleberger will run for a total of 200 yards.  Edwards will throw a TD pass also and Carslisle will rack up another 18 tackle day.  Boy eats his wheaties before every game! 

WJ 35  Tmore 17
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 09:08:52 AM
CC,

Lets see if you can correctly predict a score right this week as the bull did last week!!!

You heading to Greenville this weekend for Sr Day???

I am especially to see the hard hitting saftey #1
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 09:15:25 AM
Definetly coming to Greenville for the game brother.  You staying around town or going home that night??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 09:16:05 AM
About seeing number 1 hit....All I say is he cant bring the wood like number 37 did when he was out there!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 09:34:02 AM
Also i do not know if everyone has seen the article about the ONU coach who passed away yesterday suddenly at the age of 34.  Sympathy goes out to the Ron Bendekovic family and the ONU staff.  He played at Allegheny under Leip and a teamate of some of the coaches at Thiel as he was on the National Championship team.  Here is the Link (http://www.d3football.com/notables.php):http://www.d3football.com/notables.php 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 10:15:27 AM
CC,

HAHA #37 hit with his head too much!

Yes I am staying around as of right now for the weekend.

GO Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 10:23:55 AM
new South POLL as of this morning....

South
1. Trinity (Texas) 6-0 7-0
2. Ferrum 8-0 8-0 
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-1 6-1
4. Thiel 8-0 8-0
5. Bridgewater (Virginia) 5-1 6-1
6. Wesley 5-0 8-1
7. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 7-1
8. Washington and Jefferson 6-1 8-1
9. Johns Hopkins 6-1 7-1
10. DePauw 5-1 6-1
West
1. Linfield 5-0 7-0
2. Wisconsin-Whitewater 7-0 8-0
3. St. John's (Minnesota) 8-0 9-0
4. Occidental 7-0 7-0
5. Concordia-Moorhead 6-1 7-1
6. Coe 6-1 7-1
7. Monmouth (Illinois) 8-0 9-0
8. Whitworth 4-1 4-2
9. Central (Iowa) 7-1 7-1
10. Cal Lutheran 6-1 6-1



 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 10:32:50 AM
Pat it looks like your prediction of Central is a long shot unless they win their conference outright!  Big game this weekend also for them!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2005, 10:20:49 PM
Sure. The projection is based solely on the games that have been played. If they play more games, we will project again.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 04, 2005, 01:34:03 AM
did carlisle deserve to be pac player of the week for having 18 tackles last week.... A little bit late but what does everybody think???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 04, 2005, 08:06:09 AM
Carlisle deserves to be nominated as the PAC defensive player of the week every Sunday.  If he does not get any all american recognition that would be a kick in the face to the PAC by the voters.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 09:55:59 AM
Quote from: critic on November 04, 2005, 01:34:03 AM
did carlisle deserve to be pac player of the week for having 18 tackles last week.... A little bit late but what does everybody think???

I said this in an earlier post, but I'm surprised he was credited with 18 tackles. He wasn't that much of a factor in the game and the majority of his tackles were 5-10 yards downfield. Thiel's OL should have been "conference players of the weeK" for the snow plow type movement they got on the TMC defense.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 04, 2005, 10:15:54 AM
Bob,

Quick question, a few weeks ago Pat mentioned he didn't think the "Northern" teams in the South region were very strong this year.  I know Thiel has been getting better and they beat W&J in OT this year, but in your opinion how does this years W&J team compare to last years or prior W&J playoff teams.  I know W&J won two playoff games last year and because you've seen them play I'm just wondering if you think W&J isn't as strong this year or Thiel has gotten that much better.  Maybe a combination of both? 

Do you think if (hopefully when) both W&J and Thiel make the playoffs they will stack up well against other playoff caliber teams.  Just asking your opinion because you've  had exposure to the playoffs and playoff caliber teams with W&J thoughout the years. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2005, 10:41:28 AM
I may be biased, but hey tackles are tackles.  I understand your point about making a tackle 5 yards downfield, but I think you can attribute that to him having to get off blocks and then make the play....sounds like our D-line got whipped.

Cleveland,

I agree. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 11:19:55 AM
Saints Fan,

Your point is valid and on target. I guess I don't put a lot of stock into numbers when measuring a player's performance. In watching the game, it didn't seem/feel like Carlisle made 18 tackles & I didn't hear "Mark Carlisle on the tackle" 18 times. Not that I was watching Carlisle every snap or even paying attetion to the game announcers every word. I just didn't have that feel.

I know that teams count tackles using different methods (even though they are all supposed use the same guidelines). I think Grove City is guilty of padding tackles for their players as they consistently have several defensive players miles ahead of the pack in tackles (there simply were not that many plays run in games for it to be possible for 3-4 guys to be in the double digits each week). I'm not accusing TMC of padding the tackle chart so don't take offense, I'm simply relaying my observations.

To me, a player who deserves "defensive player of the year" accolades isn't neccisarily the guy with the most tackles/interceptions, ect. It's the guy who requires every offense to change their schemes or check the play away from him because they are so scared of what he can do to you.

Mike Wilmus is an example at W&J - He may not have All-American numbers but that's more because everybody is afraid to throw to his side due to his ability level.

George Kumnji (sp?) was this type of player for Thiel over the last 4 years. Teams had to triple team him and/or change their protections to keep him from getting to the QB. This freed up other DL to sack the QB and spread out the numbers but had they single blocked him he would have led the conference in sacks all 4 years by a landslide.

Unfortunately, when the conference coaches vote for these accolades they pay too much attention to stats and, at least in my opinion, miss the boat on the true difference makers.

I've only seen Carlisle play one game and my opinion probably isn't worth a whole lot but from that one game, I'd be surprised if he were voted "defensive player of the year". Again, just my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 04, 2005, 11:37:36 AM
Spliskin,

Carslisle's name was repeating in my eardrums on the way home after that game!  He was on every tackle and yes 5-10 yards down the field, but that was the difference in the score being 24-14 and 42-14. 

Also GCC I am not sure about padding the stats but I will say they had a tough linebacker Choby who graduated last year and was a all conference pick first team the last few years.  He used to always have a ton of tackles for some odd reason.  Just like Carslisle he was always around the ball and in on alot of tackles, but his tackles on the season were just absurbed compared to anyone else in the conference at that position.

In doing research last year Choby had 107 tackles credited
Casey Diemert linebacker for thiel had 71 who was also a first team selection with Choby
Eric fields from WJ had 87 tackles last year and i believe it said 89 the year before.
WJ had two guys in the last four years post 100 tackles and taht was in the same season 2001 BJ Swartslander and Dietz with 115 114 resepectively.

Call it what you want heres the stats!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 11:55:59 AM
Dutch,

Thiel has been improvely tremendously over the past four years.  W&J this year is about the same level as last year, perhaps a little improved defensively.

I would agree to some extent with Pat's assertion.  Of course, the northern tier teams weren't thought to be any great shakes last year, and the Presidents went to the National quarterfinals.

If both the Tomcats and Presidents get in, they both have things in their favor, and things against them:

Thiel's two overtime games will have provided some testing, something newcomers to the NCAA's can benefit from.

The Tomcats will likely be at home, both a blessing and a curse.  When you go on the road, the only thing you have to really worry about is playing the game.  When you host, especially the first time, there are myriad things to take care of.  And whether you have a great committee and staff or not, there are things that come up in front of the coaches that can not help but distract them.

Finally, the Tomcats, while getting the final score victory (what really matters), were fortunate to win the game.  Chris Edwards threw four regulation interceptions and the game still went to overtime.  I know the Tomcats know of their good fortune that day.  Their fans should also consider it.

The Presidents are playoff-tested, but if they end up in the Texas sub-regional, that is going to mean very little.  Not saying that they'd die in the desert, but what UMHB did to the Red & Black last year was very real.  And very painful to watch.

An improved defense will help, but will it be enough.  The offense must move the ball on the ground (+ short pass game) when the other team knows that's what the Presidents want to do.

W&J's special team play has been outstanding, with one glaring exception--punting.  Everything else grades to a B+ or higher.  The Presidents are woeful punting the ball, but Zach Zebrasky's insertion as punter helped last week.  This could play a key role in mid-November.

The pairings are going to tell alot about how long either can play.  Perhaps, though according to all the gurus not likely, we'll face off in Greenville on the 19th.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 11:55:59 AM
I would agree to some extent with Pat's assertion.  Of course, the northern tier teams weren't thought to be any great shakes last year, and the Presidents went to the National quarterfinals.

By playing other northern tier teams. That doesn't prove anything.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 12:26:52 PM
Perhaps, departed President Brian C. Mitchell should have taken some of the W&J endowment fund and told the NCAA not to worry about that "geography clause".  W&J would pay for any travel required to reach the "southern teir" of the region.

What W&J did last year in the playoffs was against the teams the NCAA scheduled them to play.  Period.

Northern tier (2-0), southern tier (0-1).


Perhaps contributing your appearance fees for ESPN's 15 minutes of appearing to care about D-III could persuade the NCAA to delete that provision from the RULES.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2005, 12:37:24 PM
Bob,

The Tomcats will likely be at home, both a blessing and a curse.  When you go on the road, the only thing you have to really worry about is playing the game.  When you host, especially the first time, there are myriad things to take care of.  And whether you have a great committee and staff or not, there are things that come up in front of the coaches that can not help but distract them.



Very, very true.  We hosted our first playoff game ever in 2001 against MacMurray...the NCAA has you do many, many things to get the place ready to host a Playoff game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on November 04, 2005, 01:16:15 PM
I think Grove City is guilty of padding tackles for their players as they consistently have several defensive players miles ahead of the pack in tackles (there simply were not that many plays run in games for it to be possible for 3-4 guys to be in the double digits each week).
Quote

That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read. What factual evidence to you have to support that?

Look at the PAC stats this year. http://www.pacathletics.org/FBHTML/confldrs.htm#conf.wi2

Grove City's strong safety, Aaron Margo is fifth in the PAC in tackles. The inside linebackers are 9th and 12th, respectively. I would not consider that ahead of the pack.

Mike Choby had 107 total tackles last year, 53 solo and 54 assists. In 2004, there were a total of 515 tackle opportunities for Grove City (runs + completions - TDs). I don't know about you, but for an inside linebacker to make 20 percent of a team's tackles seems rather plausible.

For you to come on here and question the integrity of Grove City sports information is quite comical to say the least. I would put our statcrew up against anybody's at any level, anytime.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 04, 2005, 01:21:04 PM
Sounds good Bob, hopefully both teams will prove they deserve to be in the post season when the time comes.  

You are right about the game going into OT this year even with 4 int's during regulation.  I guess we could argue about whether or not Thiel was just "fortunate" Edwards threw 4 picks or if they caused Edwards to throw 4 picks !  ;)  It would be hard to beat W&J again for sure, but I would love to see a rematch somehow to settle that claim.   :)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 01:26:52 PM
Cleveland,

I'm not sure what your point is but I wasn't suggesting that a team can't have 2+ guys with 100+ tackles over a season. Obviously they can. What I am referring to is this:

How is it possible for there to be 55 solo tackles in a game where the offense has a total of 50 offensive plays? Answer........it's not possible. Iv'e seen this happen with stats on many occasions. The only plausible explanation is this - There was an error in the compilation of the tackle chart, either accidentally or intentionally. This is the reason (and the only reason) I say that I don't put stock in tackle numbers as this scenerio proves that they can easily be skewed.

I am not at all suggesting that this happened in the TMC vs TC game as I have no idea. I do know that the original NCAA play by play released after the game said that Carlisle had 14 tackles, then by the time it hit the web he had 18 tackles posted (teams watch the tape and adjust the tackle chart then submit the "official" tackle chart so this means that the TMC coaches found 4 additional tackles that the game statistician must have missed). Game statisticians make errors and perhaps they did in his case as well.

You may be correct about Carlisle's tackles......it sounds like you were more in tune to the game announcer than I was or maybe watching him more closely than I was.

Regardless of how many tackles he made, I simply did not see him as an "impact" type player as has been portrayed. You were at the same game I was and you obviously did see him as such a player. I respect your opinion and we can agree to disagree on that point.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 01:38:29 PM
rabriggs,

You're absolutely right. I have no factual evidence of that nor have I researched it in Grove City's case. I gave a hasty opinion soley based on watching them play over the years. My impression from merely watching their games was that their guys were credited with more tackles than what I witnessed, but I never bothered to get a game film and count them myself.

I was out of line with that accusation without doing the appropriate research and officially retract my statement about GCC. My sincerest apology to the GCC sports information staff, coaches, and players. I intended no harm but thank you for pointing out that my statement was harmful.

PS: Welcome to the board
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 01:44:01 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 01:38:29 PM
...PS: Welcome to the board

Actually, spliskin, RA has been around for a long time.  He's actually been PUBLISHED, not just POSTED....

You might want to step back from this.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 04, 2005, 01:44:54 PM
I believe he is the SID from GCC!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 04, 2005, 01:49:56 PM
Bob,

I would love to see either Thiel or W&J play Trinity or UMHB to get out of this bracket (Obviously Thiel first haha) just to see how the PAC matches up with Texas teams. I did not see the game last year but I heard it was painful and I am just curious to see how these teams match up againts upper tier southern teams and conferences. Really seems like there is a biased about northern teams in the south region. That why they let them settle it on the field. I can't say who is better because I do not get to see teams like Trinity, UMHB and such play week in and week out. 


Good Luck this week Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 04, 2005, 01:50:45 PM
It would be interesting to find out if Grove City actually awarded more solo tackles in any games last year than was possible for the game!?!?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 12:26:52 PM
What W&J did last year in the playoffs was against the teams the NCAA scheduled them to play.  Period.

Northern tier (2-0), southern tier (0-1).

Sure. But you tried to claim advancing to the quarterfinals proved the northern tier teams WERE great shakes.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 12:26:52 PM
Perhaps contributing your appearance fees for ESPN's 15 minutes of appearing to care about D-III could persuade the NCAA to delete that provision from the RULES.

Gladly. That's zero dollars. Thanks for paying ... err, playing.

By the way, to the tackle mongers, I'm pretty sure that kickoffs, punts, interceptions and the like all require tackles.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 01:26:52 PM
I am not at all suggesting that this happened in the TMC vs TC game as I have no idea. I do know that the original NCAA play by play released after the game said that Carlisle had 14 tackles, then by the time it hit the web he had 18 tackles posted (teams watch the tape and adjust the tackle chart then submit the "official" tackle chart so this means that the TMC coaches found 4 additional tackles that the game statistician must have missed). Game statisticians make errors and perhaps they did in his case as well.

Interesting -- I believe the NCAA's guidelines on tackle stats prohibit this very type of adjustment, if I understand what you're describing. We called a couple schools on it last year, one a very prominent program.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on November 04, 2005, 02:15:36 PM
2004 GROVE CITY TACKLE BREAKDOWN

2004 Manchester  
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04mangro.htm
36 solo tackles: 28 completions + 33 rush attempts

at CMU
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/fb0402.htm
39 solo: 45 rush att + 8 completions

Wooster
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04growoo.htm
30 solo: 47 rush att + 9 completions

at Muhlenberg
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04gromuh.htm
45 solo: 52 rush att + 8 completions

at Bethany
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04grobet.htm
39 solo: 32 rush att + 17 completions

Thiel
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04thigro.htm
30 solo: 44 rush att + 9 completions

at Wash. and Jeff.
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04wjgro.htm
44 solo: 43 rush att + 23 completions

at Waynesburg
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04groway.htm
52 solo: 38 rush att + 21 completions

Alfred
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/fb0409.htm
35 solo: 39 rush att + 13 completions

Westminster
http://www.gcc.edu/Sports/Football/04growes.htm
25 solo: 47 rush att + 4 completions
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:04:43 PMSure. But you tried to claim advancing to the quarterfinals proved the northern tier teams WERE great shakes.
So now making the national quarterfinals (Elite Eight) is no great shake? 

Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:04:43 PMGladly. That's zero dollars. Thanks for paying ... err, playing.
One serious note:  You, Pat Coleman, have ALWAYS put your money where your mouth is in regards to promoting D-III athletics. There's no mistake about that!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:36:41 PM
Bob, the point is you're trying to say the northern tier was impressive because it made the national quarterfinals. My point is that someone from the northern tier HAD to make the national quarterfinals because the bracket was seeded that way. Kudos to W&J for being the team that did it ... but it doesn't prove the strength of the northern tier.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 11:55:59 AM
I would agree to some extent with Pat's assertion. Of course, the northern tier teams weren't thought to be any great shakes last year, and the Presidents went to the National quarterfinals.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 02:47:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:04:43 PM

By the way, to the tackle mongers, I'm pretty sure that kickoffs, punts, interceptions and the like all require tackles.

Good point!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 02:50:29 PM
That's fine.

I just got the release from the NCAA Championships office:  "Let it be known by all that the 2004 NCAA Division III National Football playoffs were really made up of 3 1/2 regions.

The regional finalists (formerly Elite Eight) from here on out will be known as the "Super Seven and W&J".  Sure, the Presidents won two playoff games, but they were really more like ECAC Bowls, and not really playoffs.  

So, CNU & Bridgewater, we hoped you enjoyed the scenery on the way to and from Washington for your also-ran games.  You weren't really all that great, and neither was the team you played.  But, the South 1/2 region needed somebody to play in the Finals.

We hope this change doesn't cause any inconvenience.  And, because of our Geography over Seeding policy isn't likely to change this century, we are comtemplating also doing the same thing in the East Region.

Perhaps, the missing 1/2 of the South could play the missing 1/2 of the East in the National Quarterfinals.  The winner could then be seeded to face the top team in the National Semifinals, while seeds 2 & 3 slug it out.

We'll get back to you on that."

Sincerely,

The NCAA Competition Committee
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:54:06 PM
Well, yes, that's basically the result of a penny-pinching bracket.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 02:07:01 PM

Interesting -- I believe the NCAA's guidelines on tackle stats prohibit this very type of adjustment, if I understand what you're describing. We called a couple schools on it last year, one a very prominent program.

Pat,

Let me restate so not to jump to conclusions again. The printed version of the NCAA play by play on the game in question credited the player in question with 14 total tackles. By the time it hit the web it was up to 18 total tackles. How that change came about I have no idea. Perhaps the game statistician realized an error and made the change before it went to the web. I just assumed it was adjusted by the TMC staff and have no evidence to that fact. The Thiel SID (who I believe was in charge of the stats at the game) may have made the adjustment to the tackle chart. I am not accusing anyone of anything and now regret I even brought up this entire subject. Holy avalanche Batman!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 04, 2005, 03:15:35 PM
Well I guess it's a good thing UMHB didn't win it all last year.  We would have had to discuss the unfortunate asterisk to the championship.  ** "Please be aware UMHB did have a competitive advantage in the latter stages of the D3 tourney due to the fact that they only had to deafeat W&J in the quarterfinals."  At least we avoided that controversy.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 04, 2005, 03:36:40 PM
Spliskin,

QuoteI'm not sure what your point is but I wasn't suggesting that a team can't have 2+ guys with 100+ tackles over a season. Obviously they can. What I am referring to is this:

Spliskin you need to realize what was and is being presented.  It was not about proving you wrong or right or about having two guys with 100 or more tackles on a team.  Just presenting some interesting facts from the PAC over the last 4 years.

I was putting up the facts and actually I thought those facts might of helped what you were trying to prove about grove city padding the stats.  I showed the last 4 years only two other linebackers had 100 tackles on the year both from W&J.  Choby did it last year easily with 107. 
Let's think about this:
Spliskin believes GCC pads Stats.
I chose Choby as the example with over 107 last year.
In the last 4 years only two gentlmen have done that from the PAC.

I believe I was the only one here trying to help you plead your case!

You are a football fan there are traditionally 12-15 special teams plays a game.  Usually on Punt and Punt Return your defensive guys stay on for protection.

QuotePS: Welcome to the board

Theres no need for that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 03:42:39 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 03:01:05 PM

Let me restate so not to jump to conclusions again. The printed version of the NCAA play by play on the game in question credited the player in question with 14 total tackles. By the time it hit the web it was up to 18 total tackles. How that change came about I have no idea. Perhaps the game statistician realized an error and made the change before it went to the web. I just assumed it was adjusted by the TMC staff and have no evidence to that fact. The Thiel SID (who I believe was in charge of the stats at the game) may have made the adjustment to the tackle chart. I am not accusing anyone of anything and now regret I even brought up this entire subject. Holy avalanche Batman!

Actually, I think there's something else in play here. According to the box score, Carlisle has 10 solo and eight assisted tackles. Some versions of the stat software will list that as 14 total tackles (solo plus one-half of assists). Some will list that as 18.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 04, 2005, 03:45:10 PM
Pat,

Big weekend for you and I as The Central Dutch's are playing at a well rested Wartburg team!!

We will see how this plays out should be a solid game though!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2005, 05:07:03 PM
Yeah. Not really sure why you fixated on this game, but OK.

I noted on the Daily Dose just now that in the Kickoff we picked Wartburg 1, Central 2, Coe 3 in the IIAC (those three are now tied for first). The coaches picked Central 5th.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 04, 2005, 06:32:36 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 04, 2005, 03:36:40 PM

Theres no need for that.

For what? I welcomed a new poster to the board. It was his first post & I had no idea who he was when I posted that. I sincerley apologized for offending him and believed he was new to board. What is your problem with that?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2005, 08:24:41 PM
Lets put the tackle BS to rest...no school is intentionally padding tackle stats.  This is mouse nuts people...meaning there are bigger issues to fry....like the playoffs. 

Does the PAC deserve two teams if the Presidents win tomorrow (which I am biased--but they lose at TMC)?

Will Thiel finish the regular season strong, or do they exhale because they have won the PAC outright (yes I know they don't get an auto-bid)?

Now that the season is over for most teams here...What changes need to be made in the offseason for each PAC school?

Whats the biggest rivalry in the new PAC?  What are some other good ones?

Good night...I am going out with the lady....we will be in eachothers faces tomorrow as she is a Tennessee grad and I am a huge Irish fan...

Of course I talked her into some silly bet...:)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 04, 2005, 09:34:50 PM
Good luck to everyone in the PAC tomorrow.  GCC & Westminster should be a good game as well as TMC & W&J. 

SaintsFan, to the victor go the spoils ! I don't like ND or Tennesse - I guess I'll root for ND so you win your bet.  I'll be much more interested in the PSU vs. Wisconsin game.


Go Tomcats !!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 05, 2005, 07:19:46 AM
Hope to see all the Thiel folks in Greenville this afternoon!  GO CATS!

I know that nothing is certain except for Pool A bids until the brackets come out at the end of the season, but would it be relatively safe to assume that with one more win Thiel grabs a bid to the playoffs, and with two more wins they get a home game?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 05, 2005, 08:38:11 PM
I love the PAC board
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2005, 09:46:26 PM
Cleveland:

Still don't know why you were so up for the Central/Wartburg game, but Central won it on the road.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 06, 2005, 03:03:35 AM
Congrat to the winners in the PAC this week!

To answer someone's question...I believe SaintsFan, I believe the PAC is filled with rivalry games each and every week. The addition of TMC will just add to the excitment as the PAC makes strides to compete with the "southern tier" teams. Thats another strory, but I think the PAC will be a very competitive and fun loving, hard hitting week in and week out conference that will surely add to the National Playoff scene. I would love to see both the Tomcats and W&J make the playoffs and make some sort of run and show everyone what kind of play goes on in the PAC. Hopefully they do not make us play each other in the first or second round. I would think that either team is capable of winning a few games in the playoffs and love for them to square off in Greenville for the Semis. I know its probably a pipe dream but god that would be great and the PAC would have a great showing and shut some of the loud mouth PAC bashers up.


Congrats Tomcats on your school record 9th win and counting!!

P.S. Are you still hungry???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 06, 2005, 07:59:25 AM
That Thiel v. Buffalo St. game was one of the ugliest, sloppiest games that I've seen in ages.  I lost count of the number of times that I looked up at the scoreboard in the 3rd quarter and couldn't believe that Thiel was still winning.  From muffed fair catches to shanked punts and 3rd-and-short futility (also 4th-and-short) we saw it all.  Thiel couldn't get out of the shadow of their own end zone, but Buffalo St.'s red zone offense was absolutely laughable and almost as ridiculous as their complete unwillingness to attempt a field goal after Thiel took the lead.  Big props go out to the Thiel 'Dark Side' Defense.  Those guys came up huge when it mattered, down in the red zone, and if they would have played badly yesterday, Thiel could have easily given the game away.  While they didn't put any points on the board, make no mistake about it, the Thiel defense won the game.  And oh yeah, Chambers did make a couple of nice catches. :D

I know that this has been stated before, but the playoff match-ups usually avoid conference rematches in the first round.  That being said, the geographical implications of W&J at Thiel must be mouth-watering for the penny-pinching NCAA.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2005, 10:00:55 AM
Pat

Congrats on being the head guy for the Selection Sunday next week!  My birthday is that monday the 14th and it will be a great early present for the Tomcats name to be selected that Sunday!  JK

Also on the game, Central vs Wartburg:

Fixation just having fun with the division 3 team playing field and also because I saw your prediction and how big of a game that conference it was.  You guys got it right as usual!  Goodluck to you on Selection Sunday! 

Stay Hungry TC!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2005, 10:19:34 AM
Saturdays Game:

A very sloppy game that both teams started off sluggish.  Thiel showed maturity, veternan leadership, and poise in the 21-3 victory at Alumni Stadium.  CMU will present another tough matchup for the Tomcats. 

Congrats to WJ's QB Chris Edwards for his second nomination for PAC offensive player of the week.  With 4 touchdown passes including a 41 and 43 with 373 yards passing and going over 8,000 passing yards in his career, and over 3,000 for the year!!!  Bob my question now is how does he rank all time at the school he has to be close to the QB he took over for Dawson i believe his last name was.  And also how does he rank all time in the PAC????  Could be interesting.  Edwards could have easily been named PAC player of the week numerous times in the past also.

Bethany ended their season with a 30-15 loss to Carnegie Mellon.  They were down 23- rip at one point and came back within a score and a two point conversion.  on the positive side they have two recievers who will be coming back next year and are legit playemakers with speed to take it to the crib for six every time in Milton Joyner and TJ Parker.  Both had a TD and over 5 catches a piece in the game. 

Big matchup this week in the PAC is the only one left!

Jeff Hand returns to Waynesburg as his titans take on Shepas and the Yellow jackets.  Should be an interesting game regardless of the score.  Hand knows his own players he recruited and should be able to key on certain strategies for the game.  Goodluck to Hawkins and Hunter as they finish out stellar careers and are both battling for most receptions in school history.


Finnally,

GCC and Westmin must have been a hard fought battle to the end with the 14-13 victory going to Westmin.  GCC season is over and Westmin finishes PAC play in Waynesburg this weekend.

Thomas More-Carsisle another solid game with 20 tackles including 13 Solo.  Bob Gregg what were your impressions of Tmore and their stingy defense?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 07, 2005, 11:40:16 AM
I have to agree with CC. The Tomcats looked sloppy early on but grinded it out to get the W behind a strong defensive showing. The defense was tough even though they gave up alot of yards. They had thier backs pinned up against the wall several times but Coach Rossi and his troops answered the call and held down Buff State until Chambers and the offense could get rolling.

Congrats to W&J wining thier ninth game of the season and more than likely securing a playoff birth. I also think Edwards will be voted most valuable player in the conference as he deservingly does.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 07, 2005, 01:23:39 PM
how was the tmc and w&j game??? and is carlisle human or animal?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 01:24:05 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2005, 10:19:34 AM...impressions of Tmore and their stingy defense?

Stingy?  In what way?

Points allowed?  Okay, TMC held W&J 13 under their scoring average.  But a redzone INT, two missed PATs, an incomplete on 2-pt. pass and a missed field goal answers that.

Yards rushing?  Okay, TMC held W&J to 59 yards under their season average (130 vs. 189).  But W&J made up for most of that by throwing for 45 yards OVER their season average (373 vs. 328).

First downs?  Okay, TMC held W&J to 19 total first downs, under their season average of 25.8.  But W&J made up for that with 7 plays from scrimmage of 20 yards or longer, including two scoring plays of 40+.


What struck me most about TMC wasn't a "stingy" defense, but their offense with the left-hander Seth Ellis.  I know the QB spot has been injury plagued for the Saints, but this kid is the real deal.  He was able to move around, the find open receivers and run when he had to.  222 yards passing, one td pass, one td rushing.

Also impressed with Andy Heinl, both as a receiver and punter.  Not overly impressed with his apparent need to talk so much and so obviously, but, what do I know...

Overall, from what I'd read about Thomas More, the Saints played about as well as I expected.  The Presidents didn't play nearly as well as my expectations.  How much of that was them, and how much was Thomas More being better/tougher than expected?  Let the debate begin.

Thomas More finished third in the PAC, behind Thiel and W&J, well ahead of Bethany and Grove City.  Still middle of the PAC, but a more-formidable opponent than I had anticipated.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: critic on November 07, 2005, 01:23:39 PM
and is carlisle human or animal?

Obviously, we had heard a lot about Carlisle heading into the game.

We called his name a fair number of times, but not so much that it stuck out like a sore thumb.

Late in the game, the SID announced that Carlisle had set a new career high with 20 tackles in the game.

On the drive home, I asked my broadcast partner how many tackles he thought Carlisle had (Mark calls most of the stops), and he thought it was 10-12, maybe 14.  When I told him about the SID announcement, he said (and I concur) "I'd have to see that on film."

Having reviewed the "official" play by play, there are 19 W&J offensive plays where THREE TMC players are credited with tackles.  I've broadcast football for 26 years, college games for 24, and I've NEVER seen three-player tackles listed.

That being said, he is a force to be reckoned with.  One time, W&J got him matched up with WR Aaron Krepps, but couldn't get the ball to him.  We didn't see that mis-match again.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2005, 02:50:07 PM
Bob,

Great Insight on the game and Ellis was impressive against the tomcats also throwing some excellent deep and short balls to the recievers.  I also was impressed with Andy Heinl's double duty as a punter and receiver.  He had the wind going with him for a few punts and absolutely killed them deep inside the 15 multiple times, and it truly helped with field position. 
I got a good chuckle out of your comment on Heinl's trash talking abilities too.  He was talking the entire game to the Thiel DB's and recievers, and I remember at the end of the game he was being restrained by a couple of his teamates.  I guess he just wasnt finished talking yet! 

As you and Pitt have already said they are a worthy opponett and will add excitement, rivalries, and more of a name for the PAC in the future.  For their first year in the PAC and finishing third behind two solid teams who are ranked in the nation.  I would not be upset with that season is a solid building block for the future especially with Ellis, Carisle, West, and Heinl. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2005, 03:12:05 PM
They lose Ellis and Heinl...

and can we please let the tackle bull**** die?


Come on guys...

Bob,

If I had known for sure I was going to be there on Saturday I would have insisted in meeting before the game.  My opinoin of the game is the WJ offense is good....especially Edwards and Krepps.  They wore down the TMC defense especially with #22 pounding on them...I think if TMC's offense could have found a way to be out there longer, then it could have been different....but WJ was very explosive.

I think WJ has the ability to win a game or two again this year in the playoffs....but maybe its me but I thought they played a little flat and emotionless...maybe thats how the coaches want them to play.  Anyways, thats my assessment.  Not as unbeatable as everyone talks about... I thought this TMC team had a shot to beat this President team....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 03:15:13 PM
SaintsFan,

I thought you were going to come up and say 'hello'???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2005, 03:20:59 PM
I thought about it....at halftime.  But I got there late because my Friday night ended up lasting well into Saturday...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 03:25:45 PM
Damn Friday nights!!!

Not EVERYONE talks about W&J being "unbeatable"  and I agree that this TMC team could have beaten this W&J team, at least the one that showed at Crestview Hills Saturday.  But I do not believe this TMC team--at its best, could beat this W&J team--at ITS best.

The Presidents did appear flat and emotionless, particularly on defense (kinda suprising).

And, depending on the brackets, I think W&J can win a game or two.

If I'da known you'd want to meet BEFORE the game, you could bought my breakfast at the Waffle House a couple exits back on I-71/75!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2005, 03:28:00 PM
Yes, yes...it wasn't even supposed to be that way.  Just a quiet night with the lady...

Anyways, hope you enjoyed your stay.  Next time, I will be more hospitable..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2005, 04:14:41 PM
Bob,

With Edwards career coming to an end after this season, How does his numbers compare all time at WJ???  I don't know if you can find that or have access to any info and woudln't mind sharing.  WJ has had some great offenses and QB's in the past especially with their domination of the PAC over the last 18 years.  85 career TD's 3,000 yards this season and 8,000 for a career that has to be close to the all time high at WJ and also in the PAC.


anyone else with any stats please feel free to chime in!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 04:31:30 PM
Chris Edwards:

2nd most passing yards in school history, now 8,028

Highest completion percentage (career), now 62.2%  (previous--Brad Dawson, '03, 58.6%)

85 career TD passes (top 25 all-time in D-3)  Dawson is T-10th with 94.

539-866  8.028, 62.2%  85 tds. 26 INT.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2005, 04:42:50 PM
Bob,

Waffle House??  I think you were right by my house at that one in Erlanger.  Anyways, I was just there a few hours before that....theres only so much you can take. 

As I said...next year at WJ or the following season at TMC...


Good luck in the playoffs...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2005, 04:50:05 PM
Bob,

Edwards is really closing in on his predecesor Dawson.  Quite impressive actually too I played against both Dawson and Edwards and after watching Edwards his Freshmen year you could see the kid had an arm, but could we have said he would break the records that Dawson tore down? 

I would not of been able to predict that!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 07, 2005, 06:47:34 PM
If W&J would not have lost to Thiel earlier in the year, where would they be in this weeks top 25 rankings???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 07, 2005, 08:03:04 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 07, 2005, 06:47:34 PM
If W&J would not have lost to Thiel earlier in the year, where would they be in this weeks top 25 rankings???

Are you trying to rub salt in the wound?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 08:03:11 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 07, 2005, 06:47:34 PM
If W&J would not have lost to Thiel earlier in the year, where would they be in this weeks top 25 rankings???
I would say an undefeated W&J team would certainly be Top 5 right now, though getting there without being on pcole's ballot at all might be a stretch...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 07, 2005, 09:23:14 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 07, 2005, 06:47:34 PM
If W&J would not have lost to Thiel earlier in the year, where would they be in this weeks top 25 rankings???
If wishes and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas.  Seriously though, if W&J had an unblemished record would you put them ahead of Mount and MHB?  I think that the voters likely look at overall strength of conference, which explains Whitewater prominence.  Voters certainly look at playoff runs from prior years which give Linfield, St. Johns, MHB, and Mount a leg up.  I think that even with an unblemished season W&J would have to fall behind all of them - especially considering the thumping that MHB delivered to W&J in last year's playoffs.

Personally, while I think Whitewater is strong, I don't see them as #2.  While the WIAC may be a strong conference their lackluster playoff record continues to perplex me.

Oldtimer - who of the current top 5 would you drop to make room for a hypothetical undefeated W&J  ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 09:31:37 PM
Without getting into a bunch of cute "If" poems...

W&J was #6 in the preseason D3football.com poll.

Week 1, they were #7
Week 2, they were #7
Week 3, they were #6
Week 4, they were #6 (with UMHB, Mt. Union, Hardin-Simmons and Rowan 2-5).

The original premise was "where would W&J be ranked had they not lost to Thiel?"

Given that premise, all four teams immediately ahead of the Presidents in the D3football.com poll lost after week 4.

It only stands to reason W&J would have moved up at least ONE spot given those FOUR losses.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 07, 2005, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2005, 09:31:37 PM
It only stands to reason W&J would have moved up at least ONE spot given those FOUR losses.
After seeing the rankings of some teams dip - like both ranked PAC teams this week -  despite solid wins I suggest  that, while it might stand to reason, this kind of reasoning is not necessarily the guiding force in the minds of some voters.  I think voters like to reward teams that exceed expectations under challenging circumstances - such as Whitewater nearing perfection in the WIAC. Voters want to make allowances for them, having them leapfrog also currently undefeated Del Valley, Oxy, St. Johns & Trinity.  Knowing how the voters view the WIAC and the PAC, I think the voters likely would place Whitewater above the imaginary undefeated W&J.  Also consider: Undefeated Trinity has only moved up from preseason 11th to present 9th - despite the fact that 7 of the 10  teams ahead of them in the preseason have lost one or more games.  Rankings are fun but I would rather see the PAC make some noise in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 07, 2005, 11:53:34 PM
I think W&J is a top ten team- and I think its funny that if they wouldnt have lost to Thiel then they would be in the top five---but now they are not getting as much respect--maybe the case is that Thiel and W&J are both top 10 teams?? Just a thought
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2005, 06:40:44 AM
The question wasn't "Is W&J a top ten team?"

And had W&J beaten Thiel, Thiel certainly wouldn't be in the top 10.  They're not in the top 10 now, and they won the game.

My final point is this:  The pollsters thought enough about W&J before the season to put them at the 6 spot.  Four weeks later, they still thought that highly of them.

I acknowledge that other teams may have leapfrogged them, but I also know that an undefeated W&J team (a team that MADE some playoff noise a year ago, and for the past 22 years) WOULD be in the poll's top 5 given the losses suffered by the 2-5 teams I mentioned earlier.

Thoughts/impressions of conferences was mentioned, and that's certainly applicable.  While the PAC may not yet be all that well thought of, in many regards the Presidents have lived above that.  That may not be the case today.  But it has been.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 08, 2005, 08:45:08 AM
W&J would probably be in the top 5, definately the top ten had they beaten Thiel.

I know the polls are meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but I think it's funny W&J is still ranked ahead of Thiel this late in the season, allbeit one spot.  The only reason for this is that W&J has a better history than Thiel.  There are so many teams in D-III that pollsters can't know everything about every team so they are forced to rely on a teams history and past post-season appearances.  That makes the poll seem it's really ranking teams based on their record from the past couple of years, rather than a snap-shot of how teams should be ranked now. 

I can see how W&J would be ranked ahead of Thiel right after the game because some people will assume it was just an upset and you have to take that into consideration -upsets do happen, but after going 9-0 and winning the conference I would expect people to start thinking Thiel is the better team THIS YEAR.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2005, 08:55:42 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 08, 2005, 08:45:08 AM
...I would expect people to start thinking Thiel is the better team THIS YEAR.

There have always been funny (and sometimes not so funny) twists about polls.

But one other side that you brought up, albeit inadvertantly, is that polls are most often a statement of belief by the pollsters about who IS the better team.

As I have written on this thread many times, Thiel won THAT day, and they are to be congratulated.  But I do not believe Thiel is the better team.

That having been said, were I participating in a poll, I would vote Thiel ahead of the Presidents if the Tomcats beat Carnegie-Mellon.  If the Tartans win, well, that's another story.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 08, 2005, 09:02:20 AM
Agreed Bob, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who believe W&J really is the better team.  Obviously, at least on average, the pollsters still feel that way. Either way I think they are pretty evenly matched - Just a topic for discussion, that's really all the polls are good for.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 08, 2005, 09:23:40 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2005, 08:55:42 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 08, 2005, 08:45:08 AM
...I would expect people to start thinking Thiel is the better team THIS YEAR.

That having been said, were I participating in a poll, I would vote Thiel ahead of the Presidents if the Tomcats beat Carnegie-Mellon.  If the Tartans win, well, that's another story.

I just think you have to based on what's happened this season.  Just my opinion. 

I'll be surprised if CMU beats Thiel.  They are too one dimensional, they run the ball 81% of time - Thiel has defended the run very well this year.  The last two games (TMC & Buff State) Thiel has given up 34 net yards rushing on 58 attempts and that was against teams that forced them at the very least to respect the threat of a passing game. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 08, 2005, 11:14:34 AM
On a totally different topic within the PAC - any thoughts to Waynesburg/Westminster  ???  I think that Wburg will salvage a little self-respect and force a 3-way tie for 4th place by pounding Westminster.   The alternative of a 6th place Waynesburg with 3 home losses just seems to be too bizarre to contemplate. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2005, 01:02:44 PM
I agree with the assessment of CMU....I was NEVER impressed with the Tartans or whatever they call themselves.....

Gimmick offense, classless fans and coaches that complain about late TD's on Senior Day...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: firewater on November 08, 2005, 04:42:48 PM
Talking to some W and J fans, they are looking forward to playing Theil again.  I have seen W and J play twice and watched Theil beat them,  the other was a blow out of Bethany.  Theil and W and J better hope the first round team is weak or neither will be in the second round game.  There are 3 or 4 teams in the OAC that are much better.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: professor on November 08, 2005, 04:49:27 PM
Why, of course..The OAC always has teams better than anyone else
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 08, 2005, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 08, 2005, 04:42:48 PM
Theil and W and J better hope the first round team is weak or neither will be in the second round game.  There are 3 or 4 teams in the OAC that are much better.

It's too bad that "3 or 4 teams in the OAC" won't get a chance to prove it since they won't be getting invited to the show.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 09, 2005, 12:00:56 AM
speaking of the OAC, is it safe to say that the OAC does well in the playoffs because of their depth at every position?????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2005, 08:07:46 AM
No its safe to say the OAC does well because of those Ohio boys who know how to play football!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2005, 12:19:15 PM
PAC Board,

Anyone going out to the games this weekend????

Unfortentatly I will not most likely be at the Thiel game, but the other game I would not mind taking in this weekend would be the Westminster vs Waynesburg.  Should be an interesting game that could go down to the wire, or could be a blowout if Waynesburg is able to get its run game going with Ables and Daniels.


Any predictions this week??



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 09, 2005, 01:40:44 PM
Jeff Hand may need body guards in Waynesburg. I doubt he gets a warm reception from the Yellow Jacket faithfull. This one is going to be personal. Expect a physical slugfest on both sides of the ball. Probably best game on Saturday's ticket due to the side-story. I see Waynesburg pulling it out as they have been looking forward to this one since April and have a lot of pride invested here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 09, 2005, 02:19:59 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2005, 12:19:15 PM
PAC Board,

Anyone going out to the games this weekend????

Unfortentatly I will not most likely be at the Thiel game, but the other game I would not mind taking in this weekend would be the Westminster vs Waynesburg.  Should be an interesting game that could go down to the wire, or could be a blowout if Waynesburg is able to get its run game going with Ables and Daniels.

I've already got plans to go to CMU on Saturday to see Thiel play.  I'm still kicking myself for not being able to make it to the Thomas More game, and there's no way I can miss their opportunity to polish off the regular season with a tenth win. ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 09, 2005, 02:25:36 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 08, 2005, 04:42:48 PM
Talking to some W and J fans, they are looking forward to playing Theil again.  I have seen W and J play twice and watched Theil beat them,  the other was a blow out of Bethany.  Theil and W and J better hope the first round team is weak or neither will be in the second round game.  There are 3 or 4 teams in the OAC that are much better.
Last time I checked it was Thiel not Theil.  Get it right!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 09, 2005, 02:56:32 PM
Quote from: Darkside90 on November 09, 2005, 02:25:36 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 08, 2005, 04:42:48 PM
Talking to some W and J fans, they are looking forward to playing Theil again.  I have seen W and J play twice and watched Theil beat them,  the other was a blow out of Bethany.  Theil and W and J better hope the first round team is weak or neither will be in the second round game.  There are 3 or 4 teams in the OAC that are much better.
Last time I checked it was Thiel not Theil.  Get it right!!!

How many times have I said that in my life? <LOL>
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 09, 2005, 03:07:14 PM
ThielFan,

I graduated in '99 so we were at Thiel at the same time.  I can't figure out if I know who you are.  Did you play football? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 09, 2005, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 09, 2005, 03:07:14 PM
ThielFan,

I graduated in '99 so we were at Thiel at the same time.  I can't figure out if I know who you are.  Did you play football? 

No, I didn't play, but I did see a lot of football and basketball games...  I majored in Religion and Philosophy and lived in Harter Hall my final three years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 09, 2005, 11:14:56 PM
I don't think it will be possible to see and Thiel vs W&J rematch until late in the playoffs. I think the Presidents might get shipped to another region. Not sure but that is what I am guessing. By the way where is Ferrum at????

Good Luck to the PAC this week

Predictions coming tomorrow!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 10, 2005, 07:10:26 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 09, 2005, 11:14:56 PM
I don't think it will be possible to see and Thiel vs W&J rematch until late in the playoffs. I think the Presidents might get shipped to another region. Not sure but that is what I am guessing. By the way where is Ferrum at????

Good Luck to the PAC this week

Predictions coming tomorrow!!!

Ferrum, appropriately enough, is located at Ferrum, VA, which is south of Roanoke in the southwestern area of the state.  They would be a good geographical matchup for Bridgewater, which is about a 2-hour interstate drive away or so.  Of course, that is based completely on geography and doesn't take seeding into account at all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 10, 2005, 09:09:02 AM
Thanks ThielFan!!!

Prediction Time!!!

Thiel at CMU, 1:00

Although Thiel seems to be a little banged up I think they finish the season with an unblemished record of 10-0. The defense is one of the best around along with running game of the Tomcats. I look for that combo to beat CMU this week in the season finale.

Thiel 28 CMU 7

Thomas More at Mt. St. Jos., 1:30

TMC finished the season strong after facing the upper tier of the PAC conference and losing two hard fought games. I think the Saints rebound with a road victory behind the improving offense and shut down defense.

TMC 21 St. Jos 10

Westminster at Waynesburg, 1:30

Without a doubt this is the game of the week in the PAC. Waynesburg hosts the Titans who are headed by Hand the former coach of the Jackets. I expect a hostile and hard hitting affair in Waynesburg this weekend. The first team to score may be the winner in this battle of defenses. However, I think Abels will be simply to fast for the Titans defense and with the extra insentive of Hand being the Titans head coach the Yellow Jackets come out early and sting Westmini. The Yellow Jackets won't lose 3 home games this year!

Waynesburg 21 Westminster 10

Good Luck to all this weekend

Go Tomcats...still hungary???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 10, 2005, 09:22:04 AM
rabriggs, the "so called - Benedict Arnold game"  - that's great.  ;D

As always good column this week.

 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 10, 2005, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 10, 2005, 09:22:04 AM
rabriggs, the "so called - Benedict Arnold game"  - that's great.  ;D

As always good column this week.

 


I would have to agree. rabriggs always look forward to  your around the region article. Hate it when your running behind! (HAHA)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on November 10, 2005, 10:53:40 AM
Thanks guys. Sometimes, it gets a little behind due to SID work. Hopefully next week will be back on schedule.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 10, 2005, 12:21:36 PM
Question for the PAC board.......

Should Thiel be #2 seed over Ferrum?

* Win @ W&J
* Undefeated in region (aslong as they take care of buisness this week)
* Better strength of schedule


Any thoughts???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 10, 2005, 01:24:29 PM
IF and only if Thiel beats CMU they should be the #1 seed. According to the primary criteria they have better qualifications than Ferrum & Trinity. For some reason the South Region Committe is ignoring the primary criteria at this time. Until Thiel finishes 10-0 I have no gripe with their placement in the south rankings.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2005, 04:32:01 PM
Ryan,

I like reading your columns....but I think the comment you put in there regarding the tackle situation was unnecessary.  Just as you didn't like being called out last week, I am sure Thomas More doesn't want that either. 

To do so after what happened last week smells of hypocrisy....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 04:56:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2005, 04:32:01 PM
Ryan, I like reading your columns....but I think the comment you put in there regarding the tackle situation was unnecessary.  Just as you didn't like being called out last week, I am sure Thomas More doesn't want that either.  To do so after what happened last week smells of hypocrisy....
On the other hand, SaintsFan, this kid is showing up in national rankings for defensive statistics.

There were 19 plays in which THREE TMC players combined for the tackle, despite what the statistical manual advises:  "Only in the rarest of cases would more than two assisted tackles be credited."

I know W&J's offense can be high-powered at times, but 19 plays met the "rarest of cases" test???

Come on!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: firewater on November 10, 2005, 05:02:45 PM
So sorry about the typo.  W and J will not get shipped out.  If they get selected the committee will make them go through Texas to get to the semis.  Thiel will handle the first round team and then beat Wand J again 28-10.  W and J will play Ferrum in the first round.  Thiel's run will stop in Texas and their fans should be proud.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 10, 2005, 05:40:58 PM
firewater,
I personally cannot see W&J getting sent to Ferrum in the first round.  Either W&J or Wesley will get sent to the east.  I believe that Johns Hopkins has "earned" the right to go to Texas.  Geographiclly I think W&J goes east and Wesley stays in the south.  Bridgewater will most likely play Ferrum and Thiel will host Wesley.  The main reason for this is the fact that the NCAA will pinch pennies to save flight money.  Hopkins is a safe bet to loose in Texas thus keeping the sub-regional from having a flight second round.  The committee will avoid a W&J/Thiel first round rematch.  The only way that W&J goes to Ferrum is if Wesley goes east, leaving two long drives, BC to Thiel and W&J to Ferrum.  I don't see that happening. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 10, 2005, 06:46:26 PM
How about Thiel playing Capital in the first round in Greenville????

That is another aspect and capital is only a 2 and half our drive from canton....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 10, 2005, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 10, 2005, 05:02:45 PM
Thiel will handle the first round team and then beat Wand J again 28-10. 

Dude, you are just an instigator trying to get a rise. This is good material you've got going on though.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 10, 2005, 08:35:09 PM
Cartel,
Cap would have to get in first.  Second that would mean moving Cap to the South Region bracket where there are at least nine playoff qualifiers, assuming W&J gets in.  Why move Cap in and then move two South Teams, W&J and Wesley?, elseware.  It just doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 10, 2005, 08:46:35 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 04:56:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2005, 04:32:01 PM
Ryan, I like reading your columns....but I think the comment you put in there regarding the tackle situation was unnecessary.  Just as you didn't like being called out last week, I am sure Thomas More doesn't want that either.  To do so after what happened last week smells of hypocrisy....
On the other hand, SaintsFan, this kid is showing up in national rankings for defensive statistics.

There were 19 plays in which THREE TMC players combined for the tackle, despite what the statistical manual advises:  "Only in the rarest of cases would more than two assisted tackles be credited."

I know W&J's offense can be high-powered at times, but 19 plays met the "rarest of cases" test???

Come on!

I expect the NCAA national office will have something to say about that. Contrary to what you might expect, they do take this seriously.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 11, 2005, 01:06:35 AM
I think the Tomcats have played excellent ball thus far. Aslong as they are still hungry I think the sky could be the limit for these guys. They have a great defense which by the way wins national titles they can run, pass, and have even shown they can come back in the worst situations. I think Thiel can make a ligitimate run in the playoffs as long as they focus one game at a time and still want it like they did the PAC championship. The Tomcats wanted the PAC's if they want more the sky is the limit. But as mentioned before anyone can beat anyone on any given Saturday period!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2005, 07:53:27 AM
Who does WJ have their close eyes on this weekend?  Who will have to lose to increase their probabilities of getting their name called on the SHOWCASE WITH PAT COLEMAN!  Any games that they should be watching this weekend???

Bob you might have the best inside scoop on what games they will be watching this weekend?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2005, 07:59:35 AM
I do believe WJ will get in due to their solid playoff history and how they dominated late into the playoffs last year.  NCAA knows this team will perform and play ball in november and they are situated nicely in Geography.  Saving money and pairing teams up that are close in geography should be their number 1 criteria of the NCAA. J/K  But I would think they are South enough to play teams from VA, and East enough to go out to the East cost, and even if for some odd reason they were shipped out to the North.  WJ is not that far from say, Capital and Mount Union.  I am not saying that this will be a matchup by any means.  Just that they are geographically well positioned to where other playoff teams are. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2005, 08:03:36 AM
Religion Major,

My original post about capital came from
QuoteLLAMA GUY
, and heres his predictions as of now.  It made soms sense, but I wanted to post it to see what you thought also.  Ranked 5th and playing in a tough OAC conference.  I would tend to believe they have a good shot at getting in as long as they win this weekend.  Where they will end up I have no clue but it was something to Ponder??

QuoteLooks like Capital will get a Pool C bid with 2 losses. They are ranked #5 in the North region this week.

New South Region prediction:

1st Rd:

Hardin-Simmons at Trinity
Johns Hopkins at UMHB
Capital at Thiel
Bridgewater at Ferrum (Would reverse sites if Ferrum loses to CNU)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2005, 08:14:39 AM
Bob,

I am not taking issue with those having opinoins on the tackle subject....just the vehicle used to voice it. 

I'm sure TMC is not creating stats to elevate Carlisle..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2005, 08:17:40 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2005, 07:53:27 AM
Who does WJ have their close eyes on this weekend?  ...what games will they be watching this weekend?
Of course, THE Pool B game is Linfield at Willamette.  A Willamette win changes lots of projections and brackets.

Also, Pool B  Whitworth at Pacific Lutheran


Other big games from the Presidents' viewpoint:

Wabash at DePauw
Hardin-Simmons at Texas Lutheran
Alfred at St. John Fisher
RPI at Union
Montclair at Rowan
the OAC games
Oshkosh at LaCrosse

That'll keep us busy in this little corner of the world...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2005, 08:22:31 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2005, 08:14:39 AM...I'm sure TMC is not creating stats to elevate Carlisle..
Well, if TMC REGULARLY credits THREE players with tackles, and the REST OF THE NCAA credits a maximum of TWO, why does TMC do it?

SaintsFan, I enjoy posting with you, but I think TMC is out of bounds on this issue!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2005, 08:26:29 AM
Bob,

Busy weekend too bad these games aren't broadcasted on TV at all could be a pretty interesting Saturday if it were! 

If they broadcasted all these games like the Sunday NFL ticket it would be an awesome NCAA day with ups and downs trying to see all the games that could have an effect on WJ.  I would not move if it were myself.  Miller High Life (If you cant live it drink it!) and some pizza from dominos for the 3 for 5 deal!!!  And only the gents are allowed in the room!  It would be a perfect saturday afternoon!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 11, 2005, 09:41:10 AM
Bob,

With W&J&G having a bye-week, hence nothing to do this weekend, LOL, will you be attending one of the games you listed as "big" for the Prezzzz?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2005, 09:41:23 AM
Bob,

I'm not sure whats going on with that.....but I know its not a regular thing....otherwise the NCAA would have looked into it already.  Knowing most of them personally, I can to you the TMC Coaches are not immoral or anything like that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 11, 2005, 09:46:03 AM
Saintsfan,

I could be wrong, but I don't think the coaches would have anything to do with recording tackles. I believe someone from the SID's office would be in charge of that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2005, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: spliskin on November 11, 2005, 09:41:10 AM
Bob,

With W&J&G having a bye-week, hence nothing to do this weekend, LOL, will you be attending one of the games you listed as "big" for the Prezzzz?

While W&J has a bye week, G does not!  There are things to do that I haven't looked at since JULY (Pony League World Series, Wild Things baseball, High School Football, W&J Football).  Now, I have ONE open date on the schedule and it's crammed full of catching up!

I will be listening, and sometimes, depending on the weather and the quality of the broadcasters, that's even better!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 11, 2005, 10:09:16 AM
Cartel,
I think Cap is the first two loss team in, if any make it.  I would give them about a 50/50 considering that some of the AQ's are not regionally ranked and the committee has a history of considering two in-region losses as the kiss of death.  More than getting in though, I just don't see them comming south. 

On the W&J note, I would say that they are about a 90% chance of them making it to the dance.  I think playoff history counts, but I would not say they doninated last year.  They beat Bridgewater in overtime at home, then beat CNU by 4 at home.  Those are close games not domination.  They still deserve all the credit for winning those games and getting to the round of eight.  Just my two cents  (I know it isn't worth much)...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2005, 10:10:43 AM
Union/RPI and Ithaca/Cortland will have online video, if you want to do more than listen, and have broadband.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 11, 2005, 10:53:33 AM
Good Luck this week PAC

W&J I hope the chips fall and you guys get in, you certainly deserve it!!!

Tomcats take care of buisness this week!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 11, 2005, 12:34:26 PM
Congrats to the 11 PAC football players named to the CoSIDA Academic All-District team announced Thursday (names are listed on PAC web site).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2005, 01:42:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2005, 10:10:43 AM...if you...have broadband.
Broadband?  At work, even better--ethernet direct into ISP!

Broadband?  At home, NOT A CHANCE.  There's no way the Mrs. would cough up that kind of cash each month just to give me a faster internet connection..

Even though I promised her I'd do more of my football work at home!  She didn't buy that "I'll be home more" line for a split second!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BuckSpin on November 12, 2005, 04:47:15 PM
Thiel 50
CMU 48
3OT!!!

The "Cardiac 'Cats" do it again! First it was a 1OT over W&J, then a 2OT against Waynesburg, now this....

Congratulations to Coach Leipheimer, his staff and the never say die, never quit Tomcats on an undefeated regular season and the 1st PAC championship in 33 years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 12, 2005, 06:22:29 PM
Just got back from the Thiel game.  Thiel was down 28-14 with 14 minutes left and they were able to come back.  Chambers was unbelievable today - 15 catches 177 yards 4 touchdowns and the two point conversion catch to win it in OT.  CMU played a great game.  CMU was certainly not as one dimensional as I thought.  They threw the ball with pretty good success.  Congrats to the Tomcats for never giving up.  10-0 for the first time ever. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 13, 2005, 10:42:49 AM
Real nice article on the change in Thiel fortunes in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05317/605762.stm

Great Tomcat win - but I am running out of bare patches of skin where I can slap on another nitroglycerin patch.  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D5A9C on November 13, 2005, 01:19:27 PM
John Hopkins @ Thiel

Bridgewater vs. W&J. not sure where at.

PAC gets two teams in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 13, 2005, 01:21:29 PM
NICE

Word from Greenville is the Tomcats are playing John Hopkins in the first round!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 13, 2005, 01:31:58 PM
W&J is at BC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 13, 2005, 01:57:47 PM
One thing is for sure. W&J assistant Brandon Wakefield knows the BC offense and field as well as anyone. He was BC's starting QB for 2 years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 13, 2005, 02:00:31 PM
Welcome to the Shenandoah Valley Bob Gregg. If you need any info hit me up.

W&J vs. BC , It must be playoff time again!

And oh, I guess your WR coach won't be tailgating with us again next weekend? ;D

It should be a great game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 13, 2005, 02:33:07 PM
Congrats to W&J and Thiel for making the National Playoffs!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 13, 2005, 02:40:39 PM
Any suggestions for a decent hotel near Thiel? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 13, 2005, 02:52:25 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 13, 2005, 02:40:39 PM
Any suggestions for a decent hotel near Thiel? 
Your best bet is the Radisson in West Middlesex just off I-80 - about 18 miles south of Greenville.  There is also a Holiday Inn Express and a Super 8 near the Radission.  A little closer at about 15 miles is Tara - if you have deeper pockets and a need for "ambience".   Also, there is a venerable old HoJo's just off I-80 near Mercer. 

If you really want to be closer, there is Cianci's Moter Lodge in Greenville.

If you want any amenities - stick with the Radisson - but I would make reservations now.  My connections tell me that Thiel already reserved 40 rooms in order to be ready for next weekend. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 13, 2005, 03:00:13 PM
OP - Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 13, 2005, 08:56:24 PM
These look like two great match-ups in the first round for the PAC Cats & Prez.

Hopkins @ Thiel matches 2 great defenses (I may get challenged here with the 48 surrendered to CMU, but I'll stand by the description) and 2 ball control offenses. I'll have to give Thiel the edge offensively looking at each team's stats. Both teams are making their first appearance at the big-dance but JHU has won their ECAC bowl game in each of the last 3 years-giving them the edge in the "post-season experience" category. This looks like a great game on paper and should be exciting to the end.

W&J @ BC - 2 explosive offenses, both with playoff experience and head to head battle experience. This is the grudge match as each has stolen victory from the jaws of defeat in the last 2 match-ups. It looks like the W&J defense gives the Prez the advantage as they look to be much stronger than the Eagles D, but you can't discount the home field advantage for BC. Would be interesting to know how much of an impact WJ asst coach Wakefield will have on the Prez preparation given his intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the BC program?

I'd love to catch this game but I'll have to pass on it. I need to see if the T-Cats can pull out another thriller in Greenville.

Congrats to both TC & WJ and to the entire PAC for producing 2 playoff teams for the first time in conference history.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 13, 2005, 09:53:59 PM
Nice write ups Spliskin!!!

I think both games will be very interesting. I think the Thiel vs Carnegie Mellon is a tough way to judge the Tomcats because they were banged up and missing some starters including thier starting corner & running back. They have been banged up all season and hope that they will be healthy come noon on Saturday.

W&J vs Bridgewater should be another high scoring affair as the past would indicate. I also think that the W&J defense will prove to be the deciding factor.

GOOD LUCK this week Tomcats and W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 14, 2005, 12:09:47 AM
Congratulations to both Washington & Jefferson and Thiel for outstanding seasons and earning their way into the Division III playoffs.  That being said, I have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed with the pairings.  Don't get me wrong, I think that both of the first round games will be fantastic, regardless of how they end up.  What disappoints me is that fans of the PAC will have to resign ourselves to the fact that the best we can hope for is for both of our teams to win in the first round, and then watch one eliminate the other in the second, leaving only one PAC team.  I was hoping that W&J would at least be on the other side of the South bracket, allowing both teams the possibility of raising eyebrows deep into this thing.  Of course, it's all a moot point if they lose on Saturday, but I think you all know what I'm getting at here. :(

Looking at the bright side, at least we didn't get jobbed like Trinity and UMHB.  I know they're not in the same conference, but those two teams are both too good to get screwed into playing each other so early. >:(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 14, 2005, 07:12:21 AM
I salute all of the Thiel faithful that made the trip down to Carnegie Mellon last week.  The Tomcats showed incredible guts and persistence in pulling out that 3 OT win, and the Thiel fans made themselves known throughout the entire contest, especially during the overtime periods that were contested at the end where most of the Thiel fans were congregated.  I think our best cheerleader was that lone Tartan fan who came down to the front rail in front of our section and tried to get under our skin by cheering his lungs out for CMU when they had us down.  The Thiel contingent just kept getting louder in trying to drown him out, and it began to become comical once Thiel fought their way back into the game! ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 14, 2005, 11:14:45 AM
spliskin - good game summary.

Checking out the Thiel team, it appears you have a very balanced team with an excellent offense and defense.  It stikes me that your OL must be outstanding since your backup RB, Dan Hess, ran for 169 yds against a decent CMU run defense.  Thiels defense seems (roster sizes) small, so they must be extremely quick and aggressive. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 14, 2005, 11:37:35 AM
badbadman, you pretty much nailed it there.  Thiel's O-Line has played outstanding this year & the defensive front rely's on their quickness.  The D-Line has been out-sized in every game, but so far it hasn't been much of a factor.  The majority of Hess's rushing yards came in the second half (I think he only had 8 carries for 15 yards in the 1st) so Thiel did a good job of making adjustments at halftime. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 11:48:26 AM
rabriggs,


Excellent job on the homepage of this site with the article on Thiel. You do some excellent work keep it up!!!

Can't wait for Saturday!!!

GO Tomcats and Presidents!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2005, 12:47:29 PM
Mr. Gregg,

You're more than welcome to join us (us being myself, Llamaguy, Hug, etc.) in poker Friday night.  Not sure what your schedule is, but let us know if you do come Friday (and if you do (and/or want to) play).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 01:38:33 PM
You guys playing Hold'em???


We should get a tourney online somewhere for some bragging rights amongst the forum.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 01:40:54 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 14, 2005, 12:47:29 PM
Mr. Gregg,

You're more than welcome to join us (us being myself, Llamaguy, Hug, etc.) in poker Friday night.  Not sure what your schedule is, but let us know if you do come Friday (and if you do (and/or want to) play).


Not sure of the plans yet.  I'm likely NOT heading to the Shenandoah Valley.

I'll be calling the District High School Championship games at Heinz Field.

Mark Uriah and crew will be there, and he's seen BOTH previous W&J/BC shows.

Treat him nice.  He's a Buckeye fan. (some people bring things on themselves)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 14, 2005, 02:21:37 PM
Congrats to both PAC teams for making the playoffs.  Unforunately I will be in Hershey at a conference next weekend and missing the game.  Will be checking to see the results on my laptop however.

I personally like the thought that if Thiel and W&J would both survive they could possibly have a rematch.  Here's to hoping it works out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 14, 2005, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 14, 2005, 11:14:45 AM
spliskin - good game summary.

Checking out the Thiel team, it appears you have a very balanced team with an excellent offense and defense.  It stikes me that your OL must be outstanding since your backup RB, Dan Hess, ran for 169 yds against a decent CMU run defense.  Thiels defense seems (roster sizes) small, so they must be extremely quick and aggressive. 

Yes Badman, very ballanced. Offensively, run/pass is fairly ballanced and we've needed more of one or the other to win this year depending on the game/opponent. I would also say that the team itself is ballanced as we've had games where the offense had to cover the D's a$$ (ala-CMU-OWU) and games where the Defense had to bail out the offense (ala-Buff State). Our OL is probably our strongest asset offensively as they've only allowed 7 sacks on the season and have usually been able to control the LOS for the RB's to get their yards.

By anyone's measure we are small on defense but very fast and aggressive. Our D leads the conference in sacks & we get a lot of TFL's. The D usually generates a fair number of turnovers as well (We wouldn't have beaten W&J if the defense doesn't force 5 picks).

Looking forward to Saturday!

What can you tell us about JHU?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 09:05:38 PM
From what I read about Johns Hopkins I think they are pretty balanced although they do not score alot of points avg. of only just above 17pts but they also have a stingy defense only allowing an avg. of a bit over 11pts a game.


I think we will see a good game in Greenville come this Saturday!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 14, 2005, 09:36:02 PM
spliskin - the offense is fairly balanced and has decent skill position players.  They have moved the ball better than they have scored if that makes any sense.  Stats do not adequately reflect the drive killing mistakes that have probably cost the team 10-15 points per game.  Despite this, they have won eight games.  The strength of the team is it's defense.  The defense is aggressive and has won many games for JHU this season.  Seven of JHU's ten opponents were held to 10 points or less this year.   

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 10:03:03 PM
Johns Hopkins is starting to sound alot like another PAC foe...Thomas More College?

Any thoughts???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 15, 2005, 09:18:49 AM
The weather forecast for W&J at BC Saturday is Mostly Sunny with a high of 45 degrees and a low of 29.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jester11 on November 15, 2005, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 13, 2005, 08:56:24 PM
These look like two great match-ups in the first round for the PAC Cats & Prez.

Hopkins @ Thiel matches 2 great defenses (I may get challenged here with the 48 surrendered to CMU, but I'll stand by the description) and 2 ball control offenses. I'll have to give Thiel the edge offensively looking at each team's stats. Both teams are making their first appearance at the big-dance but JHU has won their ECAC bowl game in each of the last 3 years-giving them the edge in the "post-season experience" category. This looks like a great game on paper and should be exciting to the end.

W&J @ BC - 2 explosive offenses, both with playoff experience and head to head battle experience. This is the grudge match as each has stolen victory from the jaws of defeat in the last 2 match-ups. It looks like the W&J defense gives the Prez the advantage as they look to be much stronger than the Eagles D, but you can't discount the home field advantage for BC. Would be interesting to know how much of an impact WJ asst coach Wakefield will have on the Prez preparation given his intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the BC program?

I'd love to catch this game but I'll have to pass on it. I need to see if the T-Cats can pull out another thriller in Greenville.

Congrats to both TC & WJ and to the entire PAC for producing 2 playoff teams for the first time in conference history.

Spliskin to say that Saturday's contest between JHU and TC features 2 great defenses is a joke.  Any defense that allowed 48 points to CMU is just flat out bad.  There is mention that Thiel may have been suffering from injuries.  To that I will respond that even if JHU played their second stringers, they wouldn't give up 48 points.  I won't be able to make the game, but thank goodness for the fans in Greenville that Saturday is a home game.  That way you will be able to see what a dominating defense really looks like. 

Go Blue Jays!  Good luck to my boys in the trenches.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 15, 2005, 05:06:10 PM
Jester,
Let's talk about the 49 points that JHU gave up to Hamden-Sydney.  Great defenses don't allow those kind of numbers.  Thiel has had to play some good offenses (W&J).  Other than HSC, who has Hopkins played that can out up points?  Have they played any good offenses to base their claim of being a great defense on?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 15, 2005, 05:10:59 PM
Jester, why dont you take a look at the National Rankings of total defense, run defense, and tell me who is up there in most categories---Thiel- and theyre quality of wins / strength of schedule is much MUCH better  then JHU-  JHU will see a dominating offense, AND a dominating defense on Saturday
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 15, 2005, 05:17:12 PM
And as far as good luck to your boys in the trenches- JHU has not seen an O-line or D-line like Thiel has- it will be a shocking end to their season
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jester11 on November 15, 2005, 05:41:21 PM
I have seen the National Rankings of total defense, run defense, etc, etc!!!  Give me a break 3 games went to O/T and two of them were against unranked teams they should have DOMINATED as you put it.  If luck has anything to do with it maybe, just maybe I would give them the edge in this contest.  Maybe their Defense will send this one into quadrupal O/T.  That way they'll have something to go with their 1 O/T win vs W&J, 2 O/T win vs Waynesburg (UNRANKED), and 3 O/T win vs Carnegie Mellon (ALSO UNRANKED). Like I said they got lucky against W&J and barely slide past them.  I think their luck has run out and what they are going to see on Saturday is a team with a real Defense not one that just mascarades as a DOMINATING DEFENSE........The only that is going to be shocking will be the final score when the STATS all stack up and JHU sends TC packing with their tails tucked between their legs.

JHU KING IN THIS CONTEST HANDS DOWN!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jester11 on November 15, 2005, 05:43:51 PM
At least they won't have far to run since the game is at greenville
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 15, 2005, 05:46:23 PM
I guess we will just let the Tomcats speak for themself on Saturday- Final score prediction

TC- 31
JHU- 7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 15, 2005, 05:47:41 PM
I forgot to add- Thiel will have 400 yards of offense- 175 rushing and 225 passing
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 15, 2005, 06:05:03 PM
Thankfully we can see the results of the two defenses on the field shortly.  I think oldtimer's comment on the O and D lines for Thiel is on target.  If JHU manages to beat Thiel, I think it will be through the passing game and by attacking the corners in the run game.  I think Thiel's secondary becomes a bit greedy at times and tries to make INTs when they should stick to knocking the ball down or making sure tackles.  While it is nice to have the short field that an INT gives you the Thiel O has shown over and over that they can grind out long time-consuming drives.  Of course, I figure the secondary will pay more attention to Coach Amato than me - but I hope that Coach Amato is stessing that the first priority is to make sure a pass is well defended and that INTs are gravy.

Good luck Tomcats and hopefully a clean, injury-free game for both teams. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 06:05:49 PM
Tend to doubt that Jester11 is a JHU fan so don't get too worked up over what he said.  JHU is the underdog in this game against the 14th ranked team in the nation.  Heck, we didn't even get a single vote in the poll.  On top of that, Thiel has the homefield advantage.

religion major - BC better worry about their own defense going up against W&J.   Hopkins already knows they will need to bring their "A" game.  Jester11 is probably a Thiel fan or coach.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 06:12:09 PM
BTW, both of our losses were to unranked opponents.  We would have loved to have an OT win against each of them.

OP - JHU plays a very clean game, I hope Thiel does the same.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2005, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: Jester11 on November 15, 2005, 04:59:52 PM

Spliskin to say that Saturday's contest between JHU and TC features 2 great defenses is a joke.  Any defense that allowed 48 points to CMU is just flat out bad.  There is mention that Thiel may have been suffering from injuries.  To that I will respond that even if JHU played their second stringers, they wouldn't give up 48 points.  I won't be able to make the game, but thank goodness for the fans in Greenville that Saturday is a home game.  That way you will be able to see what a dominating defense really looks like. 

Go Blue Jays!  Good luck to my boys in the trenches.


Jester, don't forget the game went three overtimes. In regulation Thiel allowed only 28 points. Since by rule Carnegie Mellon got three possessions on Thiel's 25-yard line, the point total is obviously skewed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 15, 2005, 06:42:39 PM
BadBad - Statistically, Thiel leads the PAC in fewest penalties. Coach Leip runs a pretty tight ship.  I think you will be pleased.  The fans are pretty good too - although it only takes one or two jerks to make the rest of us look bad. 

Since it sounds like you are going to be joining us I STRONGLY recommend that you come early enough to partake of the Thiel Student Services "Tailgate" in the covered pavillion.   Don't be shy about it - we welcome all comers - even Grove City fans!  I don't know what is on the menu but generally Student Services provides fried chicken, hot dogs, and sausages.  In addition we sometimes have chili, jambalaya, or some similar treat.  Of course, there will be a jar for donations.  If you want to throw in a donation fine - but there is no-one who is going to stare you down into a forced "donation" if you don't care to.  I notice that, based on donations,  some of the Thiel faculty kind of look at the tailgate as part of their compensation package   ::)

If you are interested in a place to celebrate a victory or to drown your sorrows - I suggest the Hilltop Tavern just beyond the college on route 18.

BTW - Thanks Pat for the backup re the high score Although I confess that even with the trick play (first OT?) that I was disappointed with the pass coverage.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 15, 2005, 06:47:08 PM
badbadman,
You will note my posts in the ODAC board regarding the BC defense.  They need to play well and stay out of the three-man front to win. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 15, 2005, 07:16:24 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 06:05:49 PM
Jester11 is probably a Thiel fan or coach.

Doubtful that he's either, but definitely a "Troll" who's just trying to incite an argument.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 15, 2005, 07:24:30 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 15, 2005, 07:16:24 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 06:05:49 PM
Jester11 is probably a Thiel fan or coach.

Doubtful that he's either, but definitely a "Troll" who's just trying to incite an argument.

I think you're right on there, spliskin.  I also find it laughable that he thinks that winning three overtime games on the road is a sign of weakness, regardless of who the opponent is. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 07:36:36 PM
A troll, probably, take a look at his history (all one day of it) and his grand total of two posts.   Doesn't sound like a real fan to me.  Don't get me wrong, JHU can win this game if we play to our ability, but our fans don't talk trash.   We also know we can lose if we don't perform.

OP - thanks for the invite and I'll definately be there on Saturday.  This sounds like an interesting match-up between two new playoff teams.  That may add to the overall excitement and atmosphere.  I think Pat and Keith from D3football.com will be there too.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 15, 2005, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 07:36:36 PM
I think Pat and Keith from D3football.com will be there too.
Seriously?  :o With 16 games to cover I would have thought that the most we could hope for is only one of the d3football royalty - if that much.   Pat and/or K-Mack care to comment as to your Saturday plans  ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 15, 2005, 08:42:43 PM
Oldtimer,

Take no offense, but I'm going to have to be the first to boycot your new poll & I hope that other TC & W&J fans do the same. TC needs to focus on JHU and W&J need to focus on BC before either team or their fans start to look ahead to a possible rematch. Let's win this first one then worry about the 2nd round if we get there.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 15, 2005, 08:51:47 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 15, 2005, 08:42:43 PM
Oldtimer,

Take no offense, but I'm going to have to be the first to boycot your new poll & I hope that other TC & W&J fans do the same. TC needs to focus on JHU and W&J need to focus on BC before either team or their fans start to look ahead to a possible rematch. Let's win this first one then worry about the 2nd round if we get there.

I second and third and fourth and fifth that!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 15, 2005, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: OldPhart on November 15, 2005, 06:42:39 PM
I notice that, based on donations,  some of the Thiel faculty kind of look at the tailgate as part of their compensation package   ::)

That is too funny, are you serious?!  :D  Of course, that makes me go down a mental list of some of my old Thiel professors and also the ones that I've seen at Alumni Stadium... hmmm.... which one(s) would be too cheap to kick in a buck or two? ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 15, 2005, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: OldPhart on November 15, 2005, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 07:36:36 PM
I think Pat and Keith from D3football.com will be there too.
Seriously?  :o With 16 games to cover I would have thought that the most we could hope for is only one of the d3football royalty - if that much.   Pat and/or K-Mack care to comment as to your Saturday plans  ???

If you go to the Around the Nation board, at the end of page 10, K-Mack mentions Hopkins-Thiel as one of the games he and Pat are considering... I would have quoted it but I don't know how if it's possible. ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 15, 2005, 10:08:07 PM
Hey I know, as a fan now I am allowed to look ahead.  I know (as playing college football for 4 years) that as a player you can't look ahead.  But I am not promoted ( or demoted) to just being a fan- and I agree the players better not be looking ahead- just focus on the little things and the big things will take care of themselves  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2005, 01:44:17 AM
Quote from: badbadman on November 15, 2005, 07:36:36 PM
I think Pat and Keith from D3football.com will be there too.

This is true, actually. We'll be broadcasting the game for NCAAsports.com.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cruprez on November 16, 2005, 04:52:42 AM
W& J,
  Good Luck Saturday against your opponent.  I hope we meet again this year...this time at our place.  Your fans were the best to visit with and their food was GREAT!  Hope to see you down the road in a couple of weeks...and return the hospitality

UMHB CRUSADERS....[/font]

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 08:57:48 AM
Congrats are in order to Brandon Chambers for being selected to the D3football.com team of the week. He was truley the difference maker last week in thier win vs CMU. The 2pt conversion catch was unreal. Congrats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 16, 2005, 11:43:07 AM
The PAC all conference teams are now listed on the conference website (www.pacathletics.org).  Congrats to Jack Leipheimer for coach of the year and Chris Edwards for player of the year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 11:59:04 AM
Congrats to all of the PAC all conference Selections!!!

Congrats to Chris Edwards and Jack Liepheimer as well for Player and Coach of the year in the PAC!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 16, 2005, 06:00:37 PM
Puzzling to me how Thiel isn't getting much respect in "Around the Nation" - anyone else have any thoughts on that??  What else do they have to do?  Win a few playoff games I suppose
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 16, 2005, 06:11:49 PM
They may be concerned about a rematch with W&J since the game went into OT despite 5 turnovers by W&J.  My take was that all but one picked Thiel over JHU in the opener.  Hopkins gets even less respect than Thiel since they were not in the top 32 teams named in the same article.  Whoever wins the game on Saturday needs to win the bracket! 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2005, 06:19:42 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 16, 2005, 06:00:37 PM
Puzzling to me how Thiel isn't getting much respect in "Around the Nation" - anyone else have any thoughts on that??  What else do they have to do?  Win a few playoff games I suppose

Having to go to OT to defeat two .500 opponents has a lot to do with it.   

Good news:  Got the W's
Bad news:  Should have won the games in the first half
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 16, 2005, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 16, 2005, 06:19:42 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 16, 2005, 06:00:37 PM
Puzzling to me how Thiel isn't getting much respect in "Around the Nation" - anyone else have any thoughts on that??  What else do they have to do?  Win a few playoff games I suppose

Having to go to OT to defeat two .500 opponents has a lot to do with it.   

Good news:  Got the W's
Bad news:  Should have won the games in the first half

Better news - each time the Thiel bus with the defensive team made it to the game by halftime!  ;D

Seriously though - Neither JHU nor Thiel will get any respect until they beat the W&J/Bridgewater winner.  Just as it should be.  Take one from an experienced playoff team IN the playoffs and they will get the respect.  Otherwise, its just a nice Cinderella story - making it to the dance but making a hasty exit when the clock strikes 12. 

Regardless, Tomcats need to worry about JHU first.  Respect will take care of itself when the time comes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 06:41:58 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 16, 2005, 06:00:37 PM
Puzzling to me how Thiel isn't getting much respect in "Around the Nation" - anyone else have any thoughts on that??  What else do they have to do?  Win a few playoff games I suppose


I agree and I agree!

Everyone will doubt Thiel until they prove otherwise. Heck they go 10-0 play a harder schedule then W&J and still are not higher then them in any pool. I figured they would jump them even though its only spot.
However on the other hand, Thiel won 3 OT games on the road and people expected big time statements from the cardiac cats.
My only advice which I am sure the coaching staff at Thiel is all over, is to take one game at a time and remember that they can beat anyone on any day.
I think a win this week will help earn some respect as many are expecting the Tomcats to all in the first round of the playoff. I hope thier wrong!

Don't be satisfied men!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 06:43:59 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 16, 2005, 06:11:49 PM
They may be concerned about a rematch with W&J since the game went into OT despite 5 turnovers by W&J.  My take was that all but one picked Thiel over JHU in the opener.  Hopkins gets even less respect than Thiel since they were not in the top 32 teams named in the same article.  Whoever wins the game on Saturday needs to win the bracket! 


Where did you see this at? Just curious did not no anything about this.

Thanks
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 06:52:43 PM
More congrats are in order!!!

Dave Hendricks a Thiel OL was selected to play in the Aztec Bowl.

The Aztec Bowl involves all levels of players!!

Congrats Grapehead!!! (his nickname)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 16, 2005, 06:55:30 PM
Wait a second!  Thiel IS getting SOME respect.  :o  On Selection Sunday Pat and the ESPNNews talking head BOTH pronounced Thiel correctly!  ;D  For those who didn't hear it and don't know what I mean, the "Th" is a hard "T" and  Thiel rhymes with "real" and "deal."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 16, 2005, 07:26:59 PM
BTW - For those interested in the important "food" aspect of the Thiel/JHU game I came across this note from Thiel's student services:

"A pre-game tailgate, sponsored by the Office of Student Engagement and
Success, will be held from 9:30 to 11:30 a.m. outside of Alumni Stadium.
Donations will be accepted and covered dishes are encouraged."

My sources say jambalaya will be featured this week  :)


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 16, 2005, 07:35:30 PM
Pat and the rest of the D3 crew,

Outstanding analysis in "Around the Nation" this week. You guys really know your stuff and obviously invest an enormous amount of research time into this. Although I don't agree with your take on the south region, I really appreciate it. (Note: This is not sarcasm, I am 100% sincere)

Thiel is the underdog yet again........this is awesome. JHU has an outstanding defense and you all are correct that they could upset if Thiel doesn't take care of business early.

Thiel is like the kid in school who was constantly kicked around the playground and always fell for the "something's on your shirt trick". He got into the weightroom and over the years he learned how to fight and started sticking up for himself. He eventually beat up a couple of the bullies and people started to respect him, but they still remember him laying on the pavement bloodied and busted up with pi$$ running down his leg and hawkers dripping from his hair.......so when he has to fight some of the toughest kids in school nobody gives him a chance. The only way he gets to escape the haunted past is to challenge the best and then beat the best. As it should be-----this is the law of the land on both the playground and the gridiron.

(I know that the doubt in Thiel comes from letting average teams hang around too long but I like my analogy better)

God, I love being the underdog & I wish we had to travel in the first round to make it official!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 16, 2005, 08:02:20 PM
spilskin - hey, no fair taking the underdog role against JHU.  Remember, if we win it an upset.  If you win the 14th ranked team in the country just beat a team that doesn't have a single vote in the D3 top 25!

No sarcasm intended, WE are the underdogs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 16, 2005, 08:50:14 PM
Badman,

When 2 of the 5 D3football.com writers in Around the Nation expect JHU to beat Thiel, a 3rd writers says that TC is a "shaky 2nd seed", and a fourth feels the game will be "surprisingly close"; you can no longer claim "underdog status" for JHU. Additionally, JHU is 3-0 in post season appearances while Thiel has no "credit history" in the post season. Rankings don't mean a thing and that's what makes this tournament the best one going. Win or hang up your cleats.

In all seriousness, both JHU and Thiel are big underdogs in this tournament. As first timers, regardless of who wins this first round no-one will expect much in the 2nd round game vs BC or WJ. That is a role that I relish.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2005, 08:52:31 PM
You can't take credit for JHU's ECAC games as "postseason history" -- it ain't the same.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 09:00:11 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 16, 2005, 06:00:37 PM
Puzzling to me how Thiel isn't getting much respect in "Around the Nation" - anyone else have any thoughts on that??  What else do they have to do?  Win a few playoff games I suppose

Maybe it's not a case that Thiel isn't getting much respect, but that an 8-2 JHU team isn't as bad as Thiel fans think or had hoped.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 16, 2005, 07:35:30 PM

God, I love being the underdog & I wish we had to travel in the first round to make it official!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations on your first playoff apperance and welcome.  This stuff is great!  Football at it's best for my money.  

One thing though, when you are the undefeated #2 seed in the region playing the #8 seed  at home you cannot proclaim to be the underdog.  You are the heavy favorite.  A #8 over a #2 would be a major upset (and JHU might be the #32 seed in the whole tournament).  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:01:12 PM
(and JHU might be the #32 seed in the whole tournament).  

Ummmmmm, no.  That honor goes to Curry.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:24:00 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:01:12 PM
(and JHU might be the #32 seed in the whole tournament).  

Ummmmmm, no.  That honor goes to Curry.

Good point. 

Then what I should have said was, "...and JHU might be the 31st seed in the whole tournament, after Curry." 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 16, 2005, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:01:12 PM
One thing though, when you are the undefeated #2 seed in the region playing the #8 seed  at home you cannot proclaim to be the underdog.  You are the heavy favorite.  A #8 over a #2 would be a major upset (and JHU might be the #32 seed in the whole tournament).  

Yea, you're correct and that's what I thought initially, but when the Guru's expect a #8 to beat a #2 then they feel that either the #8 is better than the #8 seed or they feel that the #2 is overated, or both. If this game had a betting line in Vegas the Guru's comments would certainly move the line towards JHU. It may not move from (+) to (- ) but it would definitely move the line.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 16, 2005, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:01:12 PM
One thing though, when you are the undefeated #2 seed in the region playing the #8 seed  at home you cannot proclaim to be the underdog.  You are the heavy favorite.  A #8 over a #2 would be a major upset (and JHU might be the #32 seed in the whole tournament).  

Yea, you're correct and that's what I thought initially, but when the Guru's expect a #8 to beat a #2 then they feel that either the #8 is better than the #8 seed or they feel that the #2 is overated, or both. If this game had a betting line in Vegas the Guru's comments would certainly move the line towards JHU. It may not move from (+) to (- ) but it would definitely move the line.

The Laz Index has Thiel as an 8.5 point favorite.  That's a pretty big favorite in Vegas or any casino.  Massey ratings have Thiel 22, JHU 81.  Thiel is ranked in both the ACFA and d3football.com polls.  JHU didn't get 1 vote in either poll.  Thiel is ranked #2 in the South region.  JHU might be #10 at best.

Rationalize all you want Thiel fans, you are the favorites.  Period.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 16, 2005, 10:10:37 PM
Quoted from mandefense on Centenial Conference board at 8:24 pm:

"All biases aside, JHU/Thiel should be an evenly matched game."

[quote author=mandfense link=topic=3947.msg420370#msg420370
The Laz Index has Thiel as an 8.5 point favorite.  That's a pretty big favorite in Vegas or any casino.  Massey ratings have Thiel 22, JHU 81.  Thiel is ranked in both the ACFA and d3football.com polls.  JHU didn't get 1 vote in either poll.  Thiel is ranked #2 in the South region.  JHU might be #10 at best.

Rationalize all you want Thiel fans, you are the favorites.  Period.
Quote

This is comical. At 8:24 pm you believed this was an evenly matched game and at 9:25 pm you believe Thiel is an 8 1/2 point favorite in response to someone that agreed with your 8:24 pm post.

This reminds me of:

Daffy Duck----------"It's Rabbit Season"
Bugs Bunny-------"No, It's Duck Season"
Daffy Duck----------"No, it's Rabbit Season"
Bugs Bunny--------"No, It's Rabbit Seaon"
Daffy Duck---------"For the last time, It's Duck Season, now shoot the duck"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 16, 2005, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2005, 08:52:31 PM
You can't take credit for JHU's ECAC games as "postseason history" -- it ain't the same.
Hmmm -  that seems to be what JHU is claiming though.  Check out page one on the Hopkins game notes touting JHU's  "...numerous members of the team with post-season experience."

Regarding underdog/overdog status: a casual glance over the OAC pick 'em gives has Thiel as the 8.5 point favorite and the picks are overwhelmingly going to Thiel.  While I picked Thiel along with most of the others in that pick 'em, I know that every "dog" has his day.  To follow up on Spliskins comments: I think that the picks that came in later on that board broke a little more to JHU's favor -  maybe a reflection on the ATN article.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 10:18:20 PM
I agree with alot of people's comments.

I especially liked the job the writers did in the around the nation segment even though they see Thiel not hanging around very long.

Its simple Thiel is a better team and are the favorites. However, if they struggle like they have in some games and get out of the gate slow there will not be a OT comeback. JH is a playoff team that will not allow a team to hang around and beat them in OT. They have a good defense and with a lead they will be tough to beat. Furthermore, if Thiel brings their game on both sides of the ball and Minton is healthy it could be a long day for JH. Thats the best thing about settling it on the field. I am curious to see which WR will out shine each other. I am also to see who wins the trench battle. That will ultimately decide the outcome of this game. If Thiel's o line is rocking and rolling then the JH defense will be in trouble.


Only a few more days!

Good luck Tomcats
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2005, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:24:00 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: miz on November 16, 2005, 09:01:12 PM
(and JHU might be the #32 seed in the whole tournament). 

Ummmmmm, no.  That honor goes to Curry.

Good point. 

Then what I should have said was, "...and JHU might be the 31st seed in the whole tournament, after Curry." 

Ummmmmm, no. That honor goes to Lakeland. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 10:25:30 PM
Quote from: d3fbalumn on November 16, 2005, 10:10:37 PM
Quoted from mandefense on Centenial Conference board at 8:24 pm:

"All biases aside, JHU/Thiel should be an evenly matched game."

[quote author=mandfense link=topic=3947.msg420370#msg420370
The Laz Index has Thiel as an 8.5 point favorite.  That's a pretty big favorite in Vegas or any casino.  Massey ratings have Thiel 22, JHU 81.  Thiel is ranked in both the ACFA and d3football.com polls.  JHU didn't get 1 vote in either poll.  Thiel is ranked #2 in the South region.  JHU might be #10 at best.

Rationalize all you want Thiel fans, you are the favorites.  Period.
Quote

This is comical. At 8:24 pm you believed this was an evenly matched game and at 9:25 pm you believe Thiel is an 8 1/2 point favorite in response to someone that agreed with your 8:24 pm post.

This reminds me of:

Daffy Duck----------"It's Rabbit Season"
Bugs Bunny-------"No, It's Duck Season"
Daffy Duck----------"No, it's Rabbit Season"
Bugs Bunny--------"No, It's Rabbit Seaon"
Daffy Duck---------"For the last time, It's Duck Season, now shoot the duck"

No, I believe it's an evenly matched game.  The Laz Power Index says Thiel are 8.5 point favorites.  Reading Comprehension 101.   ::)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 16, 2005, 10:40:45 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 10:25:30 PM

No, I believe it's an evenly matched game.  The Laz Power Index says Thiel are 8.5 point favorites.  Reading Comprehension 101.   ::)

Since you don't put any stock in the Laz Power Index (you obviously don't agree with them), why are you citing them? If I agree with you that JHU is the underdog will you then start to tell me why they should win? Logic & Reasoning 101 :-\
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 16, 2005, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 16, 2005, 06:19:42 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on November 16, 2005, 06:00:37 PM
Puzzling to me how Thiel isn't getting much respect in "Around the Nation" - anyone else have any thoughts on that??  What else do they have to do?  Win a few playoff games I suppose

Having to go to OT to defeat two .500 opponents has a lot to do with it.   

Good news:  Got the W's
Bad news:  Should have won the games in the first half

This is true.  The good thing for Thiel is coming back from 21-0 at Waynesburg, 14-0 at W&J, and down 28-14 with 14 minutes left in the game at CMU helps prove to themselves that they are never out of a game.  They certainly didn't play 60 minutes of great football in these games and in the playoffs you will need to do so.  That said, the experience of battling back and winning these games in pressure situations should help them when faced with similar situations in the playoffs. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: d3fbalumn on November 16, 2005, 10:40:45 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 16, 2005, 10:25:30 PM

No, I believe it's an evenly matched game.  The Laz Power Index says Thiel are 8.5 point favorites.  Reading Comprehension 101.   ::)

Since you don't put any stock in the Laz Power Index (you obviously don't agree with them), why are you citing them? If I agree with you that JHU is the underdog will you then start to tell me why they should win? Logic & Reasoning 101 :-\

Never said I don't put ANY stock in the LAZ Power Index (I think Wesley will beat Ferrum by around 20).  I cited LAZ the same reason I cited the other sources.  I have my opinion, but I think most people would take those other sources as being more reputable than my opinion.  I don't see people clammering on Monday mornings for the Mandfense D3 Football Top 25 (although it would be nice).   :)

I'd love to tell you why JHU should win Saturday....but I don't think they should.  Thiel should win.  They're the favorites.  Favorites SHOULD win games, underdogs COULD win games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 17, 2005, 08:23:35 AM
less than 55 Hours till gametime.....



WHOSE READY!!!!

Hand me a brat and dog with some kraut!!!!!!

Win lose or draw....Thiel has something JH does not and that is the faboluous pregame festivities!! And I hope their fans get to enjoy it as we do every home game!!!

Lets go to work!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wsx27yrs on November 17, 2005, 09:47:08 AM
history-elem. level
since 1999
BW-TRIN-UMHB-W&J combined playoff record is 26-18.
that's 44 POST SEASON GAMES with 3 Stagg bowl appearances.
FERRUM-WESLEY-JHU-THIEL combined playoff record is 0-1. that's ONE POST SEASON GAME.
WHO SHOLD BE SEEDED 1-4 WITH HOME GAMES?
D-III doesn't work that way.  2 teams getting to the 2nd round should be grateful.
just for thought--HSU should be 5 seed.(4-4 since 99 in post season)
let's earn some whiskers b-4 we grow our beards!!!!
   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 09:57:08 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 06:41:58 PM
Everyone will doubt Thiel until they prove otherwise. Heck they go 10-0 play a harder schedule then W&J and still are not higher then them in any pool. I figured they would jump them even though its only spot.
1.  Thiel beat W&J, 38-35 in overtime AT W&J.  Let's get that out there.

2.  Thiel's non-conference opponents finshed 2005 with a better overall record (18-21)than did W&J's (8-32).

3.  Nobody on the 2005 Thiel non-conference schedule has been to the playoffs in the recent past.  Same with the 2004 schedule.  In fact, the last playoff participant the Tomcats faced out of the PAC was 2003 John Carroll & Brockport State.

4.  While I'll not argue Tri-State in ANY FASHION, Allegheny, Hanover and even Emory & Henry will stack up well against Ohio Wesleyan, Bluffton, Buffalo State and Carnegie-Mellon every year.  The fact that E&H is in a down-turn, and that Hanover & Allegheny had off years notwithstanding.  When these schedule agreements were made, nobody would have anticipated the combined dismal results of AC, Hanover & E&H.

And Allegheny's 3-7 wasn't far from 8-2, 7-3.  One 6-point OT loss, two 3-point regulation losses, one 5-point, one 6-point and one 7-point regulation losses.  ONLY W&J blew out Allegheny.

5.  There is only ONE poll that matters, during the season and now.  And it's about to begin.  There are 32 teams in it.  They are all even, and the measuring stick that matters is this:  Who gets FIVE WINS?

As I've said for the past seven weeks, the better team Oct. 1st won that day.  Perhaps we'll get to see if that team is the better team, PERIOD!

Best wishes to the Tomcats, and to the Presidents Saturday.  Here's looking hopefully toward a drive up I-79 for something other than taking the wife shopping at the outlets at Grove City.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 17, 2005, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 09:57:08 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 16, 2005, 06:41:58 PM
Everyone will doubt Thiel until they prove otherwise. Heck they go 10-0 play a harder schedule then W&J and still are not higher then them in any pool. I figured they would jump them even though its only spot.

As I've said for the past seven weeks, the better team Oct. 1st won that day.  Perhaps we'll get to see if that team is the better team, PERIOD!

Best wishes to the Tomcats, and to the Presidents Saturday.  Here's looking hopefully toward a drive up I-79 for something other than taking the wife shopping at the outlets at Grove City.

Bob, if Thiel should lose to W&J in the second round (if they both win this weekend) I reserve the right to play "the better team won that day" card until their next meeting.   ;D

Good luck to the Tomcats and the Presidents. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 10:15:33 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 17, 2005, 10:07:22 AM
Bob, if Thiel should lose to W&J ... I reserve the right to play "the better team won that day" card...

And if you have the stats to show that to be the case, bring it on!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 17, 2005, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: wsx27yrs on November 17, 2005, 09:47:08 AM
history-elem. level
since 1999
BW-TRIN-UMHB-W&J combined playoff record is 26-18.
that's 44 POST SEASON GAMES with 3 Stagg bowl appearances.
FERRUM-WESLEY-JHU-THIEL combined playoff record is 0-1. that's ONE POST SEASON GAME.
WHO SHOLD BE SEEDED 1-4 WITH HOME GAMES?
D-III doesn't work that way.  2 teams getting to the 2nd round should be grateful.
just for thought--HSU should be 5 seed.(4-4 since 99 in post season)
let's earn some whiskers b-4 we grow our beards!!!!
   

HSU should have taken care of business with TLU.  We both know that NCAA is a "what have you done for me lately" outfit.  In my mind, it is just as well - there wouldn't be 200+ D3 teams if we saw the same 28 or 32 teams based on "previous playoff experience." If we use HSU's past post-season experience as a yardstick I suppose Pac Lutheran (3-6 this year, but an AWESOME 8-2 post-season record since 1999) should be in too.  ::)

I would have liked to see HSU play.  Too bad they didn't earn a spot this year.  d3Football rankings don't translate into playoff berths.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 17, 2005, 10:46:59 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 10:15:33 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 17, 2005, 10:07:22 AM
Bob, if Thiel should lose to W&J ... I reserve the right to play "the better team won that day" card...

And if you have the stats to show that to be the case, bring it on!

I'm not sure saying "the better team won that day" would be bringing it on.  I think we agree the better team won that day in the first match up, and if there were to be a second one we would also agree the better team won that day.  Right? - Anyway, hopefully both teams win this week and represent the PAC well. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 17, 2005, 10:50:23 AM
wsx27yrs -  history lessons only relate to past performance.  Why play games in the regular season if you already know who should be the top seeds in the playoffs?  

If HSU deserved the 5th seed this year, they wouldn't have gotten crushed by UMHB 38-7 and they wouldn't have lost to TLU (who was 4-5 at the time) when their playoff bid was on the line.  As both Pat Coleman and Keith said in ATR - they played themselves out of the playoffs in week 11.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 17, 2005, 11:02:36 AM
Quote from: wsx27yrs on November 17, 2005, 09:47:08 AM
history-elem. level
since 1999
BW-TRIN-UMHB-W&J combined playoff record is 26-18.
that's 44 POST SEASON GAMES with 3 Stagg bowl appearances.
FERRUM-WESLEY-JHU-THIEL combined playoff record is 0-1. that's ONE POST SEASON GAME.
WHO SHOLD BE SEEDED 1-4 WITH HOME GAMES?
D-III doesn't work that way.  2 teams getting to the 2nd round should be grateful.
just for thought--HSU should be 5 seed.(4-4 since 99 in post season)
let's earn some whiskers b-4 we grow our beards!!!!
   
History?  The last time I looked at the NCAA criteria, history wasn't included there.  Thiel deserves to be one of the top seeds.  They proved that on the field THIS YEAR.  I don't have any problem with the seedings being the way they are in the South, but the matchups ARE a joke.  HSU lost two games and choked at the end, they don't even belong in the field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 17, 2005, 11:03:31 AM
Guess I managed to quote myself in that last post.  Oops. >:(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 17, 2005, 11:24:32 AM
Go to the pick em sheet and put down who you believe will be the best team in the second round.

Personally, I have both teams winning in the first and meeting in greenville for the Rematch.


For the third round?????

Heart says Thiel
Mind says ??????????

Lets get back to the first round game against JHU.  Whoever commits the fewest turnovers (mistakes) and owns the time of possesion will win the game Saturday.  Weather is supposed to be partly cloudy and cold with a high at 39.  This is football weather and Woody Hayes and Bo Schembelcher loved coaching in this weather and this matchup along with their former teams OSU vs Michigan this saturday also!!

GO BUCKS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wsx27yrs on November 17, 2005, 11:43:51 AM
i stand corrected. HSU does not need to come into play here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 17, 2005, 11:44:58 AM
I agree history plays some part. But I believe everyone is playing the history card too much. Every year is a new year with different schedules and players. I agree with Bob when he says that ultimately this thing is settled on the field which every division should do.

Bob,

Great response to my post. You made some very good points. Good luck to the Presidents this weekend and lets hope the PAC has two participants come next weekend in Greenville. Enjoy yourself at the WPIAL games this week. Woody High is for real, very fast, I know this because I coached against them this year and McKeesport might be faster. Your in for a treat if you have that game.


Go Tomcats!!!



Prediction Time:

Thiel vs JH

I predict Thiel to win this one 28 to 7. I think Chambers will be tough to cover and with a healthy oline the running game will ultimately win it for the Tomcats. I think JH's defense will keep it tight for a while but the running game will push on them and they will fall. The offense will struggle against a very good Thiel defense that can start slow. One player is not going to beat Thiel's swarming and hard hitting team. I see a 14-7 game at the half and then the Tomcats add two more in the second half to take control and reach the round of 16.


W&J @ BC

I have to go with the Presidents here. To be honest I know very little about Bridgewater. I know they have a great tradition. I just think this will be a shootout and that W&J has a lot of fire power and a defense that will put up a fight. Edwards is the Player of the Year in the PAC and I think he will hook up with the talented WR's of Krepps & Miller that will be tough for the BC secondary to match up against.

W&J 38 BC 28


Good Luck Tomcats & Presidents
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 01:58:33 PM
I don't usually do the "Picks" things (though I have a very old friend who has a high school "picks" contest named after him), but here goes my look at things:

Johns Hopkins at Thiel.  JHU has 17 total offensive touchdowns.  That's not going to be enough against the run/pass combination the Thiel presents. 

The "downside" for the Tomcats is being at home.  There is a lot to be said for being away from home for the first venture into the NCAA's. 

All in all, I think Thiel is the better team on multiple fronts, and the three overtime games will serve them well should things get "iffy" down the stretch of this one.  Thiel wins!

Washington & Jefferson at Bridgewater.  Two common opponents.  Both scored 56 on Hanover (W&J 56-20, BC 56-42).  W&J throttled E&H 50-0, BC won 31-17 in a game not significantly closer than W&J's win. 

W&J has put up better average numbers on both sides of the ball with the exception of rushing offense (BC 277/game, W&J 183/game).  BC may have the best mix of rush/pass offense for the Presidents to deal with.  The offense/defense spread (W&J 516 vs. 270, BC 481 vs. 387) is a significant W&J advantage. 

The Presidents have more returning players with more playoff winning experience (I think) than do the Eagles.  Both teams take a lot of penalties, but the Presidents are used to that (some crazy thing like winning 45 of last 48 games in which they had 50+ yards in penalties, while losing 2 of the other 3 games). 

Speed is an area that it appears BC has the advantage.  But that advantage appears to be limited to the running game.  W&J has three every play receivers with more catches than Awkard, and FIVE regulars with "Long" catches of more yardage than either Awkard or Morin, three of them with "Long"s also longer than Copeland and Oakes.  I think, weather cooperating, the Presidents will look to go vertical to stretch out BC, then run/pass underneath up & down the field.  And, I think the Presidents defense will try to force BC to go vertical.

All in all, I think the Presidents win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 17, 2005, 06:03:04 PM
My predictions:

Thiel vs JHU
I pick Thiel to win this one because I think they have a better overall game.  To win the game though, Thiel can't start off too slowly on Dfense, like they often do.  If they allow JHU to jump out to a quick lead JHU's Dfense may be good enough to prevent a Thiel comeback.  Thiel's Dfense needs to start the game like they finish games in order to keep JHU in check.  JHU doesn't have the offensive fire power to put up alot of points on Thiel's DARKSIDE DEFENSE, if they come out ready.  JHU's defense is suppose to be pretty good, but they have to play an almost perfect game to stop Thiel's Offense.   JHU's defense will have to pick their poison: focus on the run game and get beat by the passing game or vice versa.  I don't think they can stop both.

As for the W&J v Bridgewater game, I don't really care, but my prediction is W&J wins a shootout because they at least have a defense capable of slowing down offenses.  From what I have read and based on statistics Bridgewater doesn't.


Tomcat 4 Life
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 17, 2005, 06:16:03 PM
Bob,

QuoteThe "downside" for the Tomcats is being at home

Downside for being in the playoffs for the first time.  Being in the playoffs and being at home (Pennsylvania) for the first time is a hell of a lot better than being in Maryland for the first time.

You serious....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 17, 2005, 06:25:25 PM
Darkside90,

I like the post and its good to hear from the Dirty South!

Bob,

I do appreciate your predictions though honestly.  Being in the position you are closely associated to your beloved Presidents, and I would tend to agree I like the Presidents chances also this saturday!  But woudln't you rather have that game at home than away in Virginia?  My feeling is no matter how jacked up you are and how nervous we might think players are in playing a big game for the first time in front of your home crowd.  But honeslty, the jitters are gone after the first play or even before that.  Belief in your team and brothers around you and the Presidents and Tomcats will come away with victories on Saturday afternoon. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 17, 2005, 09:04:23 PM
Darkside90,

You were the best RA I ever had!!!

You sackmaster
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 09:05:55 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 17, 2005, 06:25:25 PM... But woudln't you rather have that game at home than away in Virginia?...

Cartel, there's no question I'd rather have W&J playing Bridgewater in Washington.

But that's got NOTHING to do with what I wrote.  This is W&J's 17th year in the playoffs in the past 21 seasons.  This is THIS team's second straight year in the playoffs and third in the past four seasons.  Nearly EVERY contributing player on THIS W&J squad has THREE NCAA playoff games under their belt.  Some have even more!

This is Thiel's FIRST.  And the issues of playing at home are significant.  You have that home crowd that can be wonderful with all things going well.  But that huge, partisan crowd gets antsy pretty quickly, and pretty loudly, if things aren't going so well.

In addition, even with a large staff to deal with the Hosting responsibilities, there are still a good number of things that fall on the coaches' desks.  That's just the way it is.  When you play on the road, not nearly as many things land there.

All things considered, it's great to play at home.  All things considered, playing your FIRST playoff game in the NCAA's ON THE ROAD isn't a bad thing!

Good luck to the Tomcats.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 17, 2005, 09:17:34 PM
Bob.Gregg, It has to be a great thing just to be playing, home or away! :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 17, 2005, 09:32:49 PM
Bob,

Playoff experiance between BC and W&J is a wash.  BC has been to the playoffs every year for the past six years.  Add to that I have seen BC's defense slow down a very good pass happy Hapden-Sydney offense this year.  Honestly, I think it is a pretty even match that BC will win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: miz on November 17, 2005, 09:52:18 PM
Quote from: religion_major on November 17, 2005, 09:32:49 PM
Bob,

Playoff experiance between BC and W&J is a wash.  BC has been to the playoffs every year for the past six years.  Add to that I have seen BC's defense slow down a very good pass happy Hapden-Sydney offense this year.  Honestly, I think it is a pretty even match that BC will win.

A good number of BC's contributors played on the 2003 team that was South Region Champs. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 07:51:32 AM
Alot of you made very good points about Thiel being in the playoffs and being home for the first time. I honestly think that it will be a better then being away. There are alot of things to do accordingly to the NCAA but there is a staff on campus that will take care of buisness and I am sure Kevin the SID at Thiel is handling a large deal of it. Things will be fine and Liep will be able to concentrate on the task at hand....winning a playoff game vs Johns Hopkins. Liep is to smart and prepared to let outside things interfere with what is going on the field. The other coaches I am sure are also making sure the players are focused. That is the reason why they were able to achieve an undefeted season and comeback 3 times on the road in OT.

Stay Focused Men

DARE!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Hug on November 18, 2005, 08:56:00 AM
Pitt,

Abbsolutely being home is a huge advantage to a first time playoff team. Luckily, you will be going up against another post-season inexperienced team in UJH.  You guys shouldn't have any trouble this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 09:40:51 AM
Hug,

I hope your right!

Go Tomcats!!!


There is a very nice article about the PAC today in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It highlights Thiel and W&J for making the playoffs. Coach Sirianni also hit the nail on the head talking about the PAC improving and going to be a good conference for years to come.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 18, 2005, 10:34:02 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 09:40:51 AM
There is a very nice article about the PAC today in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It highlights Thiel and W&J for making the playoffs. Coach Sirianni also hit the nail on the head talking about the PAC improving and going to be a good conference for years to come.

Thanks for the heads-up.....here's the link to the article:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05322/608567.stm
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2005, 12:45:08 PM
Spliskin,

Thanks for the link since Pitt is too lazy to add it in there after giving us the heads up about it!!!
HAHA

Less than 24 hours till Gametime....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 18, 2005, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2005, 12:45:08 PM
Spliskin,

Thanks for the link since Pitt is too lazy to add it in there after giving us the heads up about it!!!
HAHA


Maybe not too lazy.......but doesn't know how.......Pitt may have slept through all of his computer classes at Thiel when they covered "copy & paste", LOL!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bmore BC on November 18, 2005, 01:16:05 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 01:58:33 PM

Speed is an area that it appears BC has the advantage.  But that advantage appears to be limited to the running game.  W&J has three every play receivers with more catches than Awkard, and FIVE regulars with "Long" catches of more yardage than either Awkard or Morin, three of them with "Long"s also longer than Copeland and Oakes.  I think, weather cooperating, the Presidents will look to go vertical to stretch out BC, then run/pass underneath up & down the field.  And, I think the Presidents defense will try to force BC to go vertical.


Nice assessment of your prediction. I would mention do not be fooled about the recievers not putting up big numbers due to the RB's avg over 7 ypc. I would also mention that in BC's two toughest opponants on their way to an ODAC Championship HSC and W&L did not score many points. Lots of points were given up in garbage time during the year.

Definately think it will be an exciting game. If BC can control the clock and keep W&J off the field, then BC wins by two possesions. If not, it may come down to who has the ball last.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2005, 12:45:08 PM
Spliskin,

Thanks for the link since Pitt is too lazy to add it in there after giving us the heads up about it!!!
HAHA

Less than 24 hours till Gametime....


CC,

I don't have all day to find links like some kickers I know...haha!

See you Saturday!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 01:25:39 PM
Spliskin,

I got A's in all of my computer classes at Thiel. I had to grade tests and before they started coming in I was reading the paper saw the article and figured I would mention it in Post Patterns. I knew someone would hook it up with the link. I know I am good, but I can't do everything....HAHAHA


Go Tomcats!!!

Good Luck Presidents!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 01:39:08 PM
Found another article on ncaasports.com about Thiel

Here is the link:

http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/story/9050112
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 18, 2005, 01:53:31 PM
Thanks for the link Pitt. I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 01:54:34 PM
HAHA Just playing with you spliskin!!!

Glad we can have some fun even though its playoff time!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 01:58:32 PM
Just thinking about this and I don't know why.

If the PAC was to say keep expanding and have 10 or more teams. Could there be a North/South or East/West division and have a championship game like the Big XII at Heinz Field the last week of the season for the automatic bid into the playoff field.

Any thoughts

probably just dreaming but just curious on your thoughts
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2005, 04:37:02 PM
Pitt,

That had to be the dumbest post ever on D3's history and you made everyone who reads that post that much dumber...Thank you!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2005, 04:49:36 PM
Actually, Cartel,  you're off the mark!

While I don't expect to see PAC expansion to 12 teams, it is possible.

And, given the PAC's ties to the Rooney family (yes, THAT Rooney family), a PAC title game at Heinz wouldn't be dismissed out of hand, albeit extremely unlikely.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2005, 04:49:36 PM
Actually, Cartel,  you're off the mark!

While I don't expect to see PAC expansion to 12 teams, it is possible.

And, given the PAC's ties to the Rooney family (yes, THAT Rooney family), a PAC title game at Heinz wouldn't be dismissed out of hand, albeit extremely unlikely.


Thanks Bob

CC go kick field goals or something


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2005, 06:27:37 PM
Bob,

You know too much info!

Pitt,

Alaways having someone else fighting your battles sounds familar!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2005, 08:01:31 PM
CC (& Coke--that sounds very good right now!)

It's my JOB to know things, lots of things.

But if a "B" doesn't get a "C" one of these years pretty soon, I'll be looked at as the Chicken Little of the Post Patterns!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 19, 2005, 07:16:09 AM
Buckle 'em up, baby.

"Where the hills of Pennsylvania greet the western lee,
Stands our dear old Alma Mater, throned in majesty.
Ring her praises, never ceasing.  We shall always say,
Thee we honor, Alma Mater.  Honor W & J!"

I'm just wondering how many YOUNG alums (under 45) actually know those words?

Enjoy the day, alot!

And good luck Thiel, too!
Title: FINAL BC 30 WJ 21
Post by: Bwana on November 19, 2005, 03:18:44 PM
Damn great game...some of the hits out there, especially one WJ laid on a BC receiver at the end of the first half, still have my head ringing!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 19, 2005, 04:12:07 PM
Great game on both sides.  The BC defense showed that it has improved tremendously over the course of the season. 

Any thoughts on next week's Bridgewater/Thiel game yet?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 19, 2005, 05:21:47 PM
Well the Tomcats looked like a number 2 seed today with a 28-3 win. Although they failed on 2 FG attempts and threw a pick in the red zone, the Tomcat O was on target with Satterfield connecting with the best reciever in the conference Brandon Chambers on 3 different scoring strikes and roughly 170 yards in the first half alone. the defense looked good after settling down after the first drive. Having Tom Woz back looked like it helped the Thiel defense. In addition the Tomcat D was able to intercept JH 3 times (twice by Boye). I am not sure of the number but I do not think the JH O tallied up very many yards vs the Tomcat D.  Hess ran the ball behind an O line that dominated JH up front. Minton dressed but did not play. Satterfield had 300 plus yards I believe as he had 250 plus in the first half. JH did not impress me very much other then the first drive. They looked scared and looked like a team that only scored 17 TD's on the year. I am looking forward to the match up in Greenville next week as the Tomcats face BC. 495 miles is a long bus ride which leads to an advantage to the Tomcats. Although I would have like to seen a PAC rematch vs the Presidents its going to be a battle next week. Congrats to the Presidents on a good year.

See you next week at Greenville!!!

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 19, 2005, 05:39:52 PM
i know nothing about thiel, but i do know that bridgewater might be the fastest team in d3 football... that's going to be their biggest challenge.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 19, 2005, 05:41:30 PM
Great win by the Tomcats in Greeville.  Thiel pretty much dominated the first half.  Seems to me like Thiel(with a comfortable lead) may have held back a little bit with their play selection in the second half-- maybe a strategy to not show some plays to the next round playoff opponent- I dont know? any thoughts
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 19, 2005, 07:44:27 PM
oldtimer,

I believe that Bridgewater and Thiel are each required to exchange the last three game films (including the first round).  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe one of those games for Thiel was a win in overtime.  If that is the case then I can't see what they are going to avoid by runing only basic plays in the second half.  Could they possibly have put some back-ups in to prevent injuries to starters once they opened up a big lead?  That being said, all of the teams from here on out are good enough to make adjustments at halftime.  Maybe JHU made an adjustment that stopped Thiel from absolutely destroying them?  I know in the BC/W&J game the halftime score was 10-7, but both offenses made adjustments and were more productive in the second half.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 19, 2005, 08:00:34 PM
  W&J had the loudest road fans at Jopson Field including recent Hampden Sydney games according to Bill Phipps and Scott Lowe the BC announcers. W&J played well on the run D most of the way. Good season Presidents.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 19, 2005, 08:02:42 PM
Thiel could have probably thrown the ball to Chambers all day as no one in the JH secondary...heck any secondary Thiel has played can not cover the kid. They were also without Minton but the freshman Hess took the ball and ran with it.


What does Bridgewater do? If I am correct they have a good running back and running game. Like every week I think this game will come down to the trenches. If Thiel limits them on the ground and is able to have a nice run/pass balance them the Tomcats are capable of beating Bridgewater. If BC controls the line of scrimmage and runs on the defense its going to take a heck of an effort from the Tomcats to pull this one out. I think we will see a great game next week.


Go Cats!!!!


Congrats to the Thiel players and coaches


Don't be satisfied!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 19, 2005, 09:07:32 PM
scary thing is, bridgewater turned it over inside their 20 twice, both led to TDs, and STILL won a close game... w/o those turnovers its a walk
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 19, 2005, 09:15:11 PM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 19, 2005, 09:07:32 PM
scary thing is, bridgewater turned it over inside their 20 twice, both led to TDs, and STILL won a close game... w/o those turnovers its a walk

Thiel also throw a pick inside the 20 and missed two field goals. I think if these teams make these mistakes next week it could spell trouble.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 19, 2005, 11:48:28 PM
Chambers is #7 in nation in reception yardage for Thiel. Bridgewater has already faced #1 WR Bublavi(Catholic) , #2 Barnette (Guilford),#3 Martin W&L,#4 Drew Smith(Hampden Sydney), #17 Mike Russell (Hanover) and #28 Krepps (W&J).
  ODAC teams probably throw much more than Thiel and thus have more  chances for reception yardage (since Thiel is ahead and not forced to throw) but the fact remains BC has faced the top 4 WR's in the nation in terms of reception yardage. I am sure Chambers will make some big plays as Krepps did today, but BC's secondary is battle tested.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 02:22:51 AM
So you are taking the BC secondary vs Chambers?


I will take Chambers....go ahead double him...you got Mr. Clutch Tommy Mac and Brett Helman and Marc Lascola among others to try and stop IF your double team stops Chambers....o ya I forgot the O line is great and there two running backs are good too.

I think its going to be a good game!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mandfense on November 20, 2005, 03:03:08 AM
Congrats to the Tomcats today on a great game.  Wish Hopkins could have caught a couple of breaks in the 1st half to make it closer, but it was fun none the less.  Chambers is the real deal.  Gotta love DI talent at a DIII level..

Good luck against Bridgewater.   I have a feeling they'll notice Chambers' 7 TDs in the last weeks and make an adjustment.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 03:31:02 AM
BC is a good team with good coaches. I am sure they will see what Chambers has done the past two weeks and adjust accordingly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 20, 2005, 07:07:44 AM
The toughest thing to defend about Thiel's defense is their multifaceted attack, which is what makes Chambers & company so dangerous.  You can't concentrate solely on the passing attack, or the backs will chew you up on the ground, and vice versa.  If you attack the ground game, and the ball gets thrown deep to Chambers, you might as well put the points on the board while the ball is still in the air, because he will catch it, and he will score.  I absolutely can't believe some of the catches he's made, in double coverage or otherwise.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2005, 07:44:10 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 19, 2005, 09:07:32 PM
scary thing is, bridgewater turned it over inside their 20 twice, both led to TDs, and STILL won a close game... w/o those turnovers its a walk

Outsider, you might want to remember this little fact:  W&J turned it over THREE times inside the BC 30....just for accuracy's sake.

This wasn't going to be a walk.

Congrats, BC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 20, 2005, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on November 19, 2005, 08:00:34 PM
  W&J had the loudest road fans at Jopson Field including recent Hampden Sydney games according to Bill Phipps and Scott Lowe the BC announcers. W&J played well on the run D most of the way. Good season Presidents.

Not winning the conference and a whimper in the playoffs?  What a disappointing season. 

Hey, at least the fans were loud.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 20, 2005, 08:32:30 AM
BC vs Thiel should be a great game. I am looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 20, 2005, 10:39:08 AM
OAC pick 'em board has Thiel as a 14.5 point dog against BC.  Today's poll also appears to  make the 'Cats out as "dogs" in round 2. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: badbadman on November 20, 2005, 10:44:20 AM
Good game and atmosphere yesterday by the Thiel team and fans.  Wish we gave you a better game, but our inability to generate offense caught up with us.  Chambers was actually covered on two of his three TD's, but he is so athletic he took the ball away and scored anyway - very impressive.  He's got some set of wheels - fastest D3 player I have seen.  I thought Theils rushing yardage was more the result of Hess finishing his runs than the Theil O line play.  Their defense, although very small, is also very quick and got the job done against JHU.  BC will present more a challenge in that respect.  This may be the first game the BC will struggle with the team speed of their opponent (Thiel may be faster).   

Good luck against the Eagles.     
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 20, 2005, 10:58:30 AM
is there anything online about thiel's stadium? i'm curious and can't find anything. i do know that bridgewater will travel well this weekend and was wondering how thiel would cope w/ that...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 20, 2005, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 20, 2005, 10:44:20 AM
Good game and atmosphere yesterday by the Thiel team and fans.  Wish we gave you a better game, but our inability to generate offense caught up with us.  Chambers was actually covered on two of his three TD's, but he is so athletic he took the ball away and scored anyway - very impressive.  He's got some set of wheels - fastest D3 player I have seen.  I thought Theils rushing yardage was more the result of Hess finishing his runs than the Theil O line play.  Their defense, although very small, is also very quick and got the job done against JHU.  BC will present more a challenge in that respect.  This may be the first game the BC will struggle with the team speed of their opponent (Thiel may be faster).   

Good luck against the Eagles.     

Hop's D did a great job early with tipping Satterfield's passes - made the passing game much more exciting than I cared for at points.  With respect to Chambers - yup he IS good.  It didn't hurt that he is 6'1" and Hop's corners are 5'9". 

What puzzled me was that Hopkins didn't seem to have any sense of urgency in the second half.   There were times when I thought that JHU was doing a better job of running out the clock than Thiel did.  Does JHU just lack a "hurry up" game ???

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 20, 2005, 10:58:30 AM
is there anything online about thiel's stadium? i'm curious and can't find anything. i do know that bridgewater will travel well this weekend and was wondering how thiel would cope w/ that...

If you go to the website at theil.... www.thiel.edu you can find information. They brought in bleachers this week in the far endzone for people to sit in. There is also alot of standing room.

Hope it helps

Should be a good one this weekend....hard to think Thiel is a two TD underdog at home in the second round of the playoffs but everyone has doubted them all year so I guess its really not a surprise!


GO Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2005, 01:37:32 PM
I alerted the powers-that-be at Thiel yesterday that they should expect a large traveling contingency from Bridgewater. I estimated 500 as a ballpark, not knowing how the holiday weekend would affect things, but mentioned that it could be as many as 1,500.

It's a fine stadium. Most of it would have to be standing room but there's a natural bowl that might seat a few people (though the bowl is steep).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 20, 2005, 04:29:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2005, 01:37:32 PM
I alerted the powers-that-be at Thiel yesterday that they should expect a large traveling contingency from Bridgewater. I estimated 500 as a ballpark, not knowing how the holiday weekend would affect things, but mentioned that it could be as many as 1,500.

It's a fine stadium. Most of it would have to be standing room but there's a natural bowl that might seat a few people (though the bowl is steep).

Thanks for the info Pat. If they get the snow that is forcast for Thursday & Friday I will have to bring my sled for that steep bowl! LOL. Could be Lycoming 2003 all over. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2005, 04:37:31 PM
Let's hope that's in weather only.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 20, 2005, 04:44:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2005, 04:37:31 PM
Let's hope that's in weather only.

Yeah good point. That was one of the most emotional games I ever attended. Lost a good one that week. That was an ice bowl if I have ever seen one.  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 06:53:21 PM
Bob,

Great point I was just about to say that myself, and there were 4 turnovers if you count Edwards 4 pics total.  Great D by BC, but WJ is not a cake walk in fact any team whose in the playoffs at this point can never be taken lightly or be considered a "cake walk".  There might be easier matchups but definetly not a cake walk. 

That should strike a nerve with everyone in this board.  You want to talk about cake walk maybe you should substitute Hiram for WJ, but definetly not the Presidents. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 06:56:48 PM
Pitt,

Tell everyone who sat in Row A seat 1 2 3 4 for us too while your at it!!!!



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 08:48:49 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 06:56:48 PM
Pitt,

Tell everyone who sat in Row A seat 1 2 3 4 for us too while your at it!!!!







I don't know what you mean???

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on November 20, 2005, 09:10:36 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 20, 2005, 10:58:30 AM
is there anything online about thiel's stadium? i'm curious and can't find anything. i do know that bridgewater will travel well this weekend and was wondering how thiel would cope w/ that...

If you go to the website at theil.... www.thiel.edu you can find information. They brought in bleachers this week in the far endzone for people to sit in. There is also alot of standing room.

Hope it helps

Should be a good one this weekend....hard to think Thiel is a two TD underdog at home in the second round of the playoffs but everyone has doubted them all year so I guess its really not a surprise!


GO Tomcats!!!

The Born-Power ratings (used in the ODCA pick-em contest) has Thiel by 1 over BC, which is a reasonable call (although I would have put Thiel up by a couple or three more).  HSCoach in the OAC picks based on his gut feeling, and I think anyone who has looked at the two teams would agree that a 14.5 spread either way in the BC-Thiel game is over the top.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 09:33:28 PM
Point-spreads deal more with "perception" of 2 teams' strength than "reality". They are always set to ballance the money to both sides (in this case I guess they ballance the picks). Look at the poll on the front page and you will see that (at the time of this writing) 30% of respondents picked Thiel as the higher seed with the toughest game this weekend......this shows that the perception of respondents is that Thiel is the underdog (and they may be correct). I'm sure the fact that BC has had numerous post-season appearances (seven, I believe), while this is Thiel's first trip has a lot to do with it.

I may be wrong, but I think this will be a h*ll of a game and be decided late in the 4th quarter, if not overtime.....and as TC faithful know, the T-Cats like thier chances in OT.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 09:39:11 PM
BWANA,


     Good point. I thought they had Thiel as a 14 1/2 point dog. I figured it would be right around 3 pts in favor of either team. Being @ Thiel, I think its a pick'em or they would be the ones favored. Either way it really does not matter. This is going to be a great game and a real Thanksgiving Treat!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Photos for bc on November 20, 2005, 10:38:33 PM
Hello I'm sunshines mom (wakefiled from WJ-mom),Ipromised the WJ team i would get some pictures of them   at Saturday's game . Here is th link so If you all would liek to view and order feel free.ftp://WWW.BRIDGEWATERPHOTOS.COM
         thanks
    PHOTOS FOR BC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 10:41:02 PM
Pitt,

it means you tell everyone about every detail on the Tomcats about the games....Meaning keep it to a minimium!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 10:44:48 PM
Pat,

Now that trinity has lost and Thiel is the so called #2 seed in the south bracket.  If thiel continues to win through the post season will it ever have to go down south for a playoff game.  My thoughts were the only time they would have to go down to the South was to play Trinity in the third round.  But since Hampden won does that mean they would come to PA because Thiel is the next highest seed left in the bracket???  Any thoughts on how that would break down and to how many more homes games Thiel would host if they continued to move on??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 20, 2005, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 10:44:48 PM
Pat,

Now that trinity has lost and Thiel is the so called #2 seed in the south bracket.  If thiel continues to win through the post season will it ever have to go down south for a playoff game.  My thoughts were the only time they would have to go down to the South was to play Trinity in the third round.  But since Hampden won does that mean they would come to PA because Thiel is the next highest seed left in the bracket???  Any thoughts on how that would break down and to how many more homes games Thiel would host if they continued to move on??


Cleveland,

Thiel will host the rest of the South region, if they keep winning. 

If they make it to the national semis, they will only host if both Linfield and UW-W have lost.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 20, 2005, 10:48:42 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 09:33:28 PM
Look at the poll on the front page and you will see that (at the time of this writing) 30% of respondents picked Thiel as the higher seed with the toughest game this weekend......this shows that the perception of respondents is that Thiel is the underdog (and they may be correct).

spliskin,
Some may also think that BC is the toughest low-seed left, and still think BC is the underdog.   I'm not sure who is listed in the poll, as I don't see it right now, but wanted to offer another explanation.   From reading the articles on this site though, it sounds like Thiel would have been an underdog against BC or W&J...despite Thiel's win against W&J.   I also agree with you that part of this is because BC and W&J are familiar names in postseason football.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 11:00:10 PM
Miz,

Thanks and also i would agree that their playoff tradition exceeds them to be the favorites here.

I was looking back at the history of the playoffs and BC and WJ are very familiar foes in the playoffs.  And actually from 92-94 WJ went to the semis or championship game and ended up losing, but I belive they were knocked out in the semis by a Bridgewater team.

Just some notes......

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 20, 2005, 11:08:22 PM
Cleveland,

Bridgewater actually knocked W&J out in the first round back in '00.  That was BC's first playoff game, and they actually trailed W&J on the road 28-3 before rallying to win 59-42.   The Eagles picked off Brian Dawson 7 times that day...more than he had been intercepted all season, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 11:11:23 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 20, 2005, 10:48:42 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 09:33:28 PM

Some may also think that BC is the toughest low-seed left, and still think BC is the underdog.  

Good point!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 11:13:53 PM
I managed to quote myself again somehow. Pitt, I may need tutoring from you in "computer skills 101" since you "got all A's in computer classes".
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 11:55:36 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 10:41:02 PM
Pitt,

it means you tell everyone about every detail on the Tomcats about the games....Meaning keep it to a minimium!


Just giving the indepth report... sorry if I bored you buddy!

You going next week to the game?

I am heading up Friday let me know if you want to meet me up there for a night out on Friday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 20, 2005, 11:57:40 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 11:13:53 PM
I managed to quote myself again somehow. Pitt, I may need tutoring from you in "computer skills 101" since you "got all A's in computer classes".


I will help you out as best I can!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on November 21, 2005, 07:48:00 AM
Quote from: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 09:33:28 PM
Point-spreads deal more with "perception" of 2 teams' strength than "reality". They are always set to ballance the money to both sides (in this case I guess they ballance the picks). Look at the poll on the front page and you will see that (at the time of this writing) 30% of respondents picked Thiel as the higher seed with the toughest game this weekend......this shows that the perception of respondents is that Thiel is the underdog (and they may be correct). I'm sure the fact that BC has had numerous post-season appearances (seven, I believe), while this is Thiel's first trip has a lot to do with it.

I may be wrong, but I think this will be a h*ll of a game and be decided late in the 4th quarter, if not overtime.....and as TC faithful know, the T-Cats like thier chances in OT.

As more folks check in the numbers you cite are changing and reflect a perception of the games that mirrors the D3 football rankings.  Wabash currently (11/21/05 at 0747 ET) is showing as having the most difficult game of the games listed, followed by Thiel, Linfield, and Delaware.  In the D3 poll, Wabash is 1 place ahead of Capitol, Thiel 3 spots ahead of BC, Linfield 8 ahead of Concord, and #7 Delaware Valley lines up against unranked Hobart (who won by only one point-at home- in the first round).  The wider the poll differential, the greater the perception.

I agree this is going to be a dogfight, and I would not be surprised if it comes down to a last team with the ball kind of deal...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 21, 2005, 08:05:27 AM
I would agree that Thiel probably has the toughest game this week of the top seeds remaining for each region.  That being said, if somebody was to give me 14.5 points to take Thiel, that would be the easiest pick I ever made. ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 21, 2005, 08:33:58 AM
Even as a BC fan, I picked Thiel agianst hscoach's OAC spread.  Don't get me wrong I think BC will win the game, but they won't blow Thiel out.  These two teams are too good to give that kind of spread either way. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 21, 2005, 10:44:04 AM
Rel. Major,

I agree it will be a close game but of course I have the Tomcats coming out on top.

Does anyone think the weather will play a part in this contest???

I heard there might be some white stuff on the ground.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on November 21, 2005, 11:04:54 AM
They're calling for rain/snow for most of the week in NW PA, which means it could be one of those sloppy, slushy, slippery type games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 21, 2005, 11:20:43 AM
i hear you guys have field turf, so the weather shouldn't affect the game too too much. although i recall when we played on the field turf at mount union, the field was hard as a rock and about half as slick as the lycoming field (which translates into pretty slick). at least it won't be the mud that we've been used to playing on late in the year (catholic, trinity-all 3 games, rowan... etc).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 21, 2005, 11:23:01 AM
Yes Thiel has field turf and it will help with the weather situation I am sure.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bcsportswriter on November 21, 2005, 12:03:06 PM
W&J fans....Is Chris Edwards always so quick to deflect blame to his recievers?  Or were his words misconstrued in today's Daily-News Record?

"A couple of the plays we practiced during the week were meant to go a little bit deeper to get right in-between their secondary," Edwards said. "A couple of times we did run shorter routes than we should have and, yeah, the ball did sail because it was supposed to be a deeper pass."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 21, 2005, 12:46:07 PM
I'm interested in seeing the match up between Thiel's 9th ranked run defense (75.9 ypg) and BC's 9th ranked rushing offense (277.6). 
In my opinion for Thiel to successfully stop the run they must have Senior LB/Defensive Captain Tom Wozniak in the lineup.  This season Thiel has allowed only three teams to rush for 100 yds or more:
Blufftion- (101 yds) which was insignificant because they avg only 2.2 yds/carry
Waynesburg- (197 yds) Wozniak didn't play
CMU- (148 yds) Wozniak didn't play
Thiel's D can handle below avg, avg, or even above avg running teams with or w/o Wozniak, but against a great running team (WC,CMU, and BC) this young defense needs its Captain.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bcsportswriter on November 21, 2005, 12:49:05 PM
Darkside....is he hurt?  Expected to play this weekend?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 21, 2005, 12:55:38 PM
Wozniak played against JHU and seemed to be ok, it was his first game back-- expected to play this weekend
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: e_lee on November 21, 2005, 01:02:48 PM
Capital alum here.  First of all congrats to Thiel on a great season so far.  I almost went to Thiel out of HS but chose Capital and don't regret it, but I always had a soft spot for Thiel as many guys I played with or against and later coached against in HS went there.(Darrell Stterfield, CLint Nims-transferred from Cap, Josh Baker-baseball, Abe Woodard-football, baseball--just to namea  few recent ones)

I have a wedding to go to Saturday night in Ashtabula and probably won't be able to make it to Cap's game in Inidana, but will probably go to the Thiel-Bridgewater game while back in Ohio.

Great to see Satterfield doing so well. Hated to see him leave Capital when he did.  Great to see such good things happening for him.  Look forward to a good game on Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 21, 2005, 02:32:18 PM
Quote from: bcsportswriter on November 21, 2005, 12:49:05 PM
Darkside....is he hurt?  Expected to play this weekend?
bcsportswriter,
Wozniak just caught the injury bug early in the season, which is why he missed about four games.  He seems to have recovered, and he played well in the game against JHU.  I'll probably talk to him sometime this week to make sure, but I'm sure he's playing.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on November 21, 2005, 09:52:23 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 21, 2005, 10:44:04 AM
Rel. Major,

I agree it will be a close game but of course I have the Tomcats coming out on top.

Does anyone think the weather will play a part in this contest???

I heard there might be some white stuff on the ground.
I wouldn't see why the weather would bother my guys.  It didn't bother us at Lycoming and they had to cleran the field off there was so much snow!  I'm looking forward to seeing what this part of PA looks like.  I think it will be a good game, albeit a close one.  I would never bet against my guys, would I, Religion Major?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 21, 2005, 10:02:41 PM
Quote from: Olinemom on November 21, 2005, 09:52:23 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 21, 2005, 10:44:04 AM
Rel. Major,

I agree it will be a close game but of course I have the Tomcats coming out on top.

Does anyone think the weather will play a part in this contest???

I heard there might be some white stuff on the ground.
I wouldn't see why the weather would bother my guys. It didn't bother us at Lycoming and they had to cleran the field off there was so much snow! I'm looking forward to seeing what this part of PA looks like. I think it will be a good game, albeit a close one. I would never bet against my guys, would I, Religion Major?

That was more in reference to how poor weather might affect Thiel.  I am not sure what their major offensive plan is, but for a run balance team like Bridgewater, weather is not usually an issue. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 21, 2005, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: religion_major on November 21, 2005, 10:02:41 PM

That was more in reference to how poor weather might affect Thiel.  I am not sure what their major offensive plan is, but for a run balance team like Bridgewater, weather is not usually an issue. 

Actually, teams in Western, PA practice and play games every year in the snow so this will be an advantage to Thiel as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 21, 2005, 10:39:57 PM
From what I can gather, Thiel is a fairly ballenced offense.  The thing about the weather is that it is the same for both teams.  Bridgewater beat Lycoming two years ago after a snowstorm.  UMHB beat Mount Union in the cold and snow.  All in all I think it will be a close one.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 22, 2005, 12:23:23 AM
Quote from: Olinemom on November 21, 2005, 09:52:23 PM
I wouldn't see why the weather would bother my guys.  It didn't bother us at Lycoming and they had to cleran the field off there was so much snow! 

Well, I'd say BC still won, but I think the field's condition definitely impacted BC's play against Lycoming.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 22, 2005, 07:49:53 AM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 22, 2005, 12:23:23 AM
Quote from: Olinemom on November 21, 2005, 09:52:23 PM
I wouldn't see why the weather would bother my guys.  It didn't bother us at Lycoming and they had to cleran the field off there was so much snow! 

Well, I'd say BC still won, but I think the field's condition definitely impacted BC's play against Lycoming.

The question is who's play did the field conditions have a greater impact on?  I would also caution ya'll that I would not use Lycoming/BC in 2003 as the primary example of what playing on a frozen field will do because of the other major event that happened that week: the tragic passing of a Lycoming player.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 22, 2005, 08:06:20 AM
Religion Major just took the words right out of my mouth.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 08:48:11 AM
Regardless the Field conditions will be fine for the game saturday.  And tell you the truth there will not be much snow on the ground for Saturday to truly affect the playing.  Maybe if the teams were playing in buffalo where the lake effect is much stronger and possibly on grass this would be an issue.  Erie gets hit severely and the furthest the lake effect will go to is around the Edinboro area.  Meadville even gets good snow due to its elevations, but greenville will not be hit atleast this weekend!  If anything maybe a few inches surrounding us in the grass, but the turf is still at a warm tempature that it will not stick unless inches upon inches come down on it. 

Bring the spikes, no turf shoes no excuses saturday!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 22, 2005, 08:57:24 AM
Hey Cartel,
Can we order up some heated bleacher seats as well ???

Naw that wouldn't be true football now would it? ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 22, 2005, 10:41:22 AM
How is everyone doing in their brackets???


I was 15 of 16 only loss was W&J

I am 23rd our of 1136

What about everyone else!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 22, 2005, 10:42:14 AM
Llamaguy,

I'll build a fire in a berrel under your seat. ;D  How's that for a heated bleacher seat?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 22, 2005, 10:59:21 AM
PittTBC, I was 15 of 16 as well.  I missed the Hobart - Cortland game. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 22, 2005, 12:04:44 PM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 22, 2005, 10:59:21 AM
PittTBC, I was 15 of 16 as well.  I missed the Hobart - Cortland game. 


Good work!!!

Predictions anyone???

Have to get them up early with the holiday!

Mine will be up very shortly (during my planning period around 1:30 this afternoon)

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 22, 2005, 01:19:09 PM
Prediction Time:

Wesley @ UMHB 1:00 est

I think UMHB will be too much for Wesley as they play a long awaited home playoff game after knocking off the #1 seed Trinity last week on the road. It seems like the defense is at the top of its game at the right time. I see this game coming down to the wire but UMHB advances to the round of 8!

UHMB 31 Wesley 21


Bridgewater @ Thiel 12:00 noon est

This is going to be one of the better games on the card this weekend. I think that the Tomcats will honestly win it though. It will be a close hard fought battle in the cold at Alumni Stadium in Greenville, PA. My reasoning is very simple. Chambers and the Tomcats offense will keep Bridgewater on thier toes all afternoon. Their ability to run and throw the ball effectivly will win this game. Trying to cover Chambers will be something they will have to try and do thus leaving less men in the box for the Tomcat run game. The o line will be ready to roll and Minton may be healthy as well which spells trouble for the Bridgewater defense who will see a good one two punch with Minton and Hess. In addition, the Thiel defense should be healthy and ready to stop the plan behind a solid defensive gameplan from Joe Rossi. What a great matchup #9 rushing offense vs the #9 rushing defense (at least last time I checked and mentioned in a prior post)! Thiel will also not turn the ball over like past five opponents have done. The Tomcats will make BC drive the field to score which will create problems against the Darkside. Furthermore, BC has to travel by bus on a Thanksgiving weekend which will not be fun considering the weather conditions. It all adds up to a Thiel victory this Saturday!

Thiel 35 BC 17


Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!

Hopefully the Tomcat faithful will get out and root on the Tomcats this holiday weekend. I know BC will have a nice following and the Tomcats need everyone to be there to make it a true homefield advantage and not let the BC faithful take over Alumni Field.

Looking forward to a great game!!!

Have a safe trip BC I know its going to be slick on the roads!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 22, 2005, 01:37:20 PM
ok  ;D see y'all saturday
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: sthrncwby on November 22, 2005, 01:42:21 PM
I don't see Wesley scoring that much.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: VULCAN24 on November 22, 2005, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: Darkside90 on November 21, 2005, 12:46:07 PM
I'm interested in seeing the match up between Thiel's 9th ranked run defense (75.9 ypg) and BC's 9th ranked rushing offense (277.6). 
In my opinion for Thiel to successfully stop the run they must have Senior LB/Defensive Captain Tom Wozniak in the lineup.  This season Thiel has allowed only three teams to rush for 100 yds or more:
Blufftion- (101 yds) which was insignificant because they avg only 2.2 yds/carry
Waynesburg- (197 yds) Wozniak didn't play
CMU- (148 yds) Wozniak didn't play
Thiel's D can handle below avg, avg, or even above avg running teams with or w/o Wozniak, but against a great running team (WC,CMU, and BC) this young defense needs its Captain.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2005, 03:55:41 PM
The only thing I know for sure is that it is only








284 days to September 2nd!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 04:52:54 PM
Key news for South Region playoff teams:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=153
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 22, 2005, 04:56:32 PM
What was Thiel thinking???  Doesnt surprise me they screwed something like that up
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2005, 04:56:48 PM
WHY would you not file paperwork to host all the way through?

Perhaps Centre, KY could explain....


Maybe they listened to what I was saying about hosting....  probably not!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 22, 2005, 05:13:14 PM
Regarding Pat's note that Thiel would not host the 3rd game because they didn't file  paperwork: I had heard that Thiel had filed the paperwork for the 3rd game - but were tardy with it.  My Thiel source (who prefers to remain anonymous) indicated to me today that the AA committee may be considering an exception that would allow Thiel to host a 3rd game should they defeat Bridgewater.  If indeed the AA is considering an exception, I doubt that any decision would be made before Saturday afternoon.  With respect to hosting the 4th game - I don't know if any paperwork has been filed by Thiel.

Pat - is your source definite that Thiel has no chance of hosting the 3rd and 4th rounds?  ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2005, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2005, 04:56:48 PM
WHY would you not file paperwork to host all the way through?

Perhaps Centre, KY could explain....


Maybe they listened to what I was saying about hosting....  probably not!

You've gotta expand on that a bit, Bob, seeing as how Centre's never been IN the D3 football playoffs ... did they blow it in another sport?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 22, 2005, 05:51:23 PM
OldPhart,

It's unfortunate that Thiel didn't file the paperwork in time.  Back in 2000, that ended up costing Bridgewater a home game in the 2nd round, where they ended up flying to Texas to face Trinity.  

I have nothing against Thiel, but if they would be allowed to host, I'd want to know why an exception was made for them, and not other teams in the past.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 05:54:13 PM
Thats a shot in the chest but doesnt matter if Thiel does not take care of the task at hand this week and continue to play as a band of brothers, and from what it sounds like everyone has them as a underdog on their own turf!  No appreciation TC, and this should make them hungrier than even before.  Cant wait till Saturday heck i cant even wait till thursday so i can play in our Turkey Bowl and eat some quality food!  But saturday will be the day that someone will prove their abilities and dominance on the field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 06:06:03 PM
They wouldn't have bothered to tell us if it weren't a done deal. Mofia, don't get all worked up over an exception.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 06:10:16 PM
Mizoou,

My cartel has your Mafia in check!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 06:25:50 PM
 
QuoteFirst Team Offense
QB: J.D. Ricca, Hampden-Sydney

RB: Marcus Washington, Bridgewater

TE: Ben Dull, Hampden-Sydney

WR: Nick Bublavi, Catholic

WR: Chris Barnette, Guilford

WR: Drew Smith, Hampden-Sydney

OL: Paul Getty, Bridgewater

OL: Paul Williams, Hampden-Sydney

OL: Hunter Whitfield, Washington & Lee

OL: Nicholas Reese, Bridgewater

OL: Zeke Traylor, Hampden-Sydney

PK: Reggie Moore, Randolph-Macon



First Team Defense
LB: Antwaine Campo, Bridgewater

LB: Brian Gallagher, Washington & Lee

LB: Bobby Stutz, Catholic

DL: Chris Marshburn, Randolph-Macon

DL: Chuck Brown, Bridgewater

DL: Liam Murray, Washington & Lee

DL: Thomas Rhone, Randolph-Macon

CB: Josh Knight, Bridgewater

CB: Mark Snoddy, Washington & Lee

Safety: Adrian Herndon, Bridgewater

Safety: Jeff Inman, Hampden-Sydney

Punter: Travis Frazier, Guilford







Second Team Offense
QB: Josh Vogelbach, Guilford

RB: Winston Young, Bridgewater

WR: Khalil Shareef, Randolph-Macon

WR: Jack Martin, Washington & Lee

WR: Colton Ward, Washington & Lee

WR: Brian Rolander, Hampden-Sydney

OL: Troy Burnett, Bridgewater

OL: Ben Niemaseck, Hampden-Sydney         

OL: Trey Allen, Washington & Lee

OL: Sean Howe, Catholic

OL: Ian Kirwan, Guilford

PK: Reed Westra, Hampden-Sydney


Second Team Defense
LB: Louis Burrell, Hampden-Sydney

LB: Mario Paylor, Guilford

LB: Marshall Doss, Emory & Henry

DL: Zach Wall, Washington & Lee

DL: David Clements, Bridgewater

DL: Ed Dahl, Catholic

DL: Zach Price, Hampden-Sydney

CB: Jamie Edlow, Hampden-Sydney

CB: Devon White, Guilford

Safety: Deon Mays, Bridgewater

Safety: Nick Olivero, Catholic

Punter: Peter Welsh, Catholic







Honorable Mention Offense
Josh Simpson (RB) Hampden-Sydney

Keith Ricca  (QB) Catholic

Chas Collins (OL) Washington & Lee

Brennan Stewart (WR) Emory & Henry

Micah Rushing (WR) Guilford

Corey Huslebus (TE) Bridgewater

Rod Nelson (WR) Randolph-Macon



Honorable Mention Defense
Wes Hall (LB) Hampden-Sydney

Avatus Stone (LB) Catholic

Kyle Luby (CB) Washington & Lee

Brandon Creasy (Safety) Emory & Henry

Scottie Byrd (DE) Guilford

Brandon Borst (LB) Bridgewater

Gabe Jones (DB) Randolph-Macon


All conference Honors on here from the ODAC...Bridgewater has some solid players seems like mainly on the defensive side of the ball.  But no receivers making first second or honorable mention unless you include their TE who was Honorable Mention.....Reason for this???? who knows maybe with their two stud running backs rotation they have.  They are ranked 9th in rushing i believe in the nation, or a very high caliber of pass heavy teams in their league and a plethora of high caliber recievers.  Regardless i believe shutting down their run game included in the cold weather will be the defining point in the game for Thiel. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 22, 2005, 06:30:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 06:06:03 PM
They wouldn't have bothered to tell us if it weren't a done deal. Mofia, don't get all worked up over an exception.
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 06:10:16 PM
Mizoou,

My cartel has your Mafia in check!

:)  Wow, got two quick responses on that.  Don't worry fellas.  If I was worked up, you'd see some of these '!!!!!!' tipping you off. 

For now, wondering about the 'what ifs' of who could have hosted next round is about as important as clamoring over if Ferrum should really be the Number 2 seed heading into the last week of the regular season.  In the end, it may not really matter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 06:34:33 PM
Mizz,

Exactly right!

Are you coming up to Greenville this weekend for the BW VS THIEL??? If so your Mafia and my cartel should enjoy the pregame festivities at Thiel.....Just a thought....Llama that goes for you too and Pitt knows the pregame drill!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 22, 2005, 07:37:00 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 06:34:33 PM
Mizz,

Exactly right!

Are you coming up to Greenville this weekend for the BW VS THIEL??? If so your Mafia and my cartel should enjoy the pregame festivities at Thiel.....Just a thought....Llama that goes for you too and Pitt knows the pregame drill!

I'll be there for sure, but I have no mafia :'(. Stone Station on the road will hopefully be set-up early. What is the lowdown  for tailgating at Thiel? I won't be bringing the pull behind grill due to weather but will have my 9x9 tent, flags and cooler in tow. What are the chances I can find a spot to set it up? Let me know where the drill is happening and I will definitely stop by and introduce myself.  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 08:55:41 PM
That is disappointing that someone in administration dropped the ball for Thiel. I heard that they had some "playoff committee" set up a month or so before the playoffs to take care of all this NCAA BS. Someone may be (should be) on the hot seat over this FUBAR mistake. This is inexcusable but I hope it doesn't become a distraction bc it really won't matter until Saturday at around 4:00pm.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bcsportswriter on November 22, 2005, 09:04:00 PM
Cleveland Cartel- Dont sleep on our recievers.   We may not have one that stands above all the others, but we have a plethora of talent at the position.  We've had 5 different recievers who have led the team in receptions in the 10 games we have played (not including George Mason).  I think you will be impressed with how good of a group they are once you see them in action.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2005, 10:02:00 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 22, 2005, 05:48:19 PMYou've gotta expand on that a bit, Bob, seeing as how Centre's never been IN the D3 football playoffs ... did they blow it in another sport?
Back in the '80s I believe it was, Centre failed to file paperwork to participate in the DIII playoffs.  The way I understand it--Centre was actually selected, but then was not allowed to participate, and W&J got the bid.  I wish I could remember what year....age thing, you know!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on November 22, 2005, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 22, 2005, 08:57:24 AM
Hey Cartel,
Can we order up some heated bleacher seats as well ???

Naw that wouldn't be true football now would it? ;D

What, no heated dome stadium?  Just have them close the dome and turn on the heat.  And they can leave the bleachers as is. ;D  Who's bringing the fire pit since Skoal Train can't make this one?   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 12:21:33 AM
I think Thiel should still be allowed to apply for the 3rd or/and 4th game if possible. The game is still days away. Why not??? Some NCAA rule??? I am sure it is but why not give the derserving seed the home game if they win this week? They deserve it? I guess the NCAA likes controvercy....then again Thiel dropped the ball big time. I guess the person should get some AR for this for sure. I do not know the rules but rules are rules. I would love for Thiel to play at home IF they take care of Bridgewater. But if they screwed up then they I guess they deserve the penalty....then again why punish the team for someone else's mistake????

Either way men take care of buisness this week vs Bridgewater by taking care of the football and getting 11 gold hats to the football. Then let the chips fall and take care of buisness whereever it may be.


Go Tomcats!!!

B. Chambers & D. Hendricks for All Americans!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 12:31:08 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 12:21:33 AM
rules are rules

Bingo. This is all in the championships handbook.

Who knows, maybe there's some event going on on campus that day that they thought they couldn't also manage the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 01:10:09 AM
Pat,

If its in the handbook then I guess that is the way the cookie crumbles for the Tomcats. Obviously someone made a huge boo boo if they win. If they lose to Bridgewater then I guess its a lesson learned!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 01:16:58 AM
By the way a big congrats is in order for W&J WR Aaron Krepps for being selected to the Aztec Bowl!!!

Congrats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 07:50:02 AM
Llama Oline MOm,

Tailgaiting at thiel is more than welcomed but i will remind it is a dry campus.  There are ways to get around that and the security is usually very cordial about letting the parents and families enjoy themselves in the parking lot only.  You can bring your grill and cooler enjoy yourselves but be smart about it.  There are a couple of SUVs that I will most likely be and Ill be wtih some other buddies Including PITTCBW.  Look forward to seeing the BW faithful at the game!!!  It will be good to meet some of the people on this board and hear thoughts face to face also!!!

Be safe driving up and happy holidays everyone!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 07:54:29 AM
New Weather report out of cleveland for the game:


An Alberta Clipper is coming in from Canada and will bring in cold air off the lake.  THe west side of cleveland will only see a max of 6 inches but the east side (Snow belt will see 8-12) and for the far east in Ohio and Western PA has a very very good chance they said of seeing up to 2 FEET OF SNOW!!!!!  From Today and untill Saturday.  Why will Western PA get such a huge hit?  The cold air first coming off from Canada, and then the Lake Effect will continue with Snow bands for the next couple of days due to the warm lake tempature, the news report said.  It will be a messy holiday weekend with the white stuff falling!!  Well see how far into Western PA this system will get to, but its my hunch that there very well could be some snow on the field after all!

Safe Drivings!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 23, 2005, 10:08:49 AM
What an oversight.....they COULDN'T have been thinking they were only going to participate in two playoff games.....??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 23, 2005, 10:13:08 AM
we did a similar thing in 2000 w/ not filing the correct paperwork in time to host, which is why we ended up at W&J and trinity instead of at home. i do know that it is an early deadline, and it could have been a thing where they're not used to going to the playoffs and it may have just slid by. that's what happened to us...

and about thiel being a dry campus, bridgewater is a dry campus as well. it's all in how you interpret "dry". i'm sure stone station will pull a family guy (a la Petoria) and pull section of land and secede from thiel's campus for the day...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 23, 2005, 10:57:46 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 23, 2005, 10:08:49 AM
What an oversight.....they COULDN'T have been thinking they were only going to participate in two playoff games.....??

Nope.  The reality is they figured that after two playoff wins at home that they probably STILL wouldn't get any respect since all of their regular season OT wins were on the road.  Thiel figured that they better put up a couple of decisive road wins in the playoffs before winning the Stagg just to earn a little more respect.  Too bad Thiel can ONLY give a proper spanking to Linfield OR Whitewater on the road and not both of them.  I'm just hoping it will be enough to nudge them ahead of W&J in the final poll ;)

.
.
.

Now that I have the giggles out of my system, I really came to post a note about today's Sharon Herald at http://www.sharonherald.com/ (nearby PA newspaper) regarding Thiel's Aaron Zane and Logan Malie and their diminutive size but big play.  Sorry about the link - the Herald wants money to get the full text of the article.

Plenty of football to be played THIS Saturday - no need to fuss about next week.

   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 11:05:32 AM
By the way, I meant to post this last Saturday, mid-afternoon, but was a little busy with the high school championship broadcasts:


It appears the better team won October 1st....

That's the better team, PERIOD!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 23, 2005, 11:37:30 AM
Bob, it looks like turnovers killed W&J in both of their losses.  Anyway you look at it, it looks like Thiel, W&J, and Bridgewater are all pretty evenly matched.  Should be a great game this weekend.  I think turnovers will be a huge deciding factor in the game.  It will be interesting to see how Thiel's 9th ranked rushing defense does against Bridwater's 9th ranked rushing attack.  It looks like both teams have great speed.  In my opinion, the team that has the most balance on offense and wins the turnover battle will come out with the victory. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 11:43:26 AM
Dutch,

I would agree.

I haven't had much opportunity to look at play-by-play or other things from Saturday's loss at Bridgewater, but these things have occurred to me:

W&J 57 passes?????

The BC folks have written about the two "gift-wrapped" tds the Presidents got off turnovers, but they fail to acknowledge the gifts were returned five-fold!  Not to mention one of those turnovers appears to have been a very catchable TOUCHDOWN pass!.  And there was that other 42-yard on-the-mark td pass drop!

I have said this for years, and I'll likely keep saying it:  This team better DECIDE to run the football alot more than they do.  Throwing 40 times a game might be a lot of fun against a team you're much better than, but 57 times against a team with which you're are even doesn't often work the way you want it to.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: professor on November 23, 2005, 12:26:57 PM
Hallelujah!  Bob Gregg. Now, all the Presidents need to do is to convert the offensive line's mentality from pass to run blocking. Oh, and find a running back who can get through the line of scrimmage and into the secondary. Of course, wouldn't a lot of teams like type of runner.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bcsportswriter on November 23, 2005, 12:36:51 PM
And a QB who can take a snap from under center so they dont have to put their back up in to fumble on 4th and 1
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 02:32:21 PM
BC,

QuoteAnd a QB who can take a snap from under center so they dont have to put their back up in to fumble on 4th and 1

What is that quote all about?  Something happen last week that edwards had to leave for a play or two?  Or is that something in the past with WJ please elaborate more on that for us!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 02:36:08 PM
Edwards hand injury for much of the second half of the season wouldn't allow him to take snaps under center.

When short yardage situations arose, W&J brought in back-up to take snap under center.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 02:51:05 PM
Bob,
Now that makes some sense and exactly why WJ would put in a backup in for that situation regardless of how it worked out.  Edwards is still an amazing QB that posesses tremdendous skill and can pass all over a defense any time.  Yes he might of had 4 pics but he kept WJ in the game the entire time going toe to toe with BW until the end of the game. 

heres a poll Question:

Does a healthy Edwards guide WJ past BW and intno Greenville for the rematch????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 03:00:42 PM
a "healthy" Edwards?

I didn't say he wasn't healthy.  I said he had a hand injury that kept him from going under center.  Period.

2-3 fewer interceptions, 1-2 caught td passes would have moved W&J past BC and into a rematch at Greenville.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 23, 2005, 03:01:29 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 02:51:05 PM
heres a poll Question:
Does a healthy Edwards guide WJ past BW and intno Greenville for the rematch????

no
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 23, 2005, 03:14:10 PM
Spin it however you want but it was the pressure that Edwards had from the BC blitzes that decided the game. After Edwards threw the first pick in the endzone, due to pressure, he was reeling. In the second half even when he had time he was throwing it early. He said in the H'burg newspaper that the receivers were supposed to run deeper routes on a couple of his interceptions. Fact is, had he had time to see the break he wouldn't have had to throw it early and hope the ball got to the correct team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 23, 2005, 03:14:57 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 11:43:26 AM
The BC folks have written about the two "gift-wrapped" tds the Presidents got off turnovers, but they fail to acknowledge the gifts were returned five-fold!  Not to mention one of those turnovers appears to have been a very catchable TOUCHDOWN pass!.  And there was that other 42-yard on-the-mark td pass drop!

That early TD-pass turned INT was huge.  W&J had shut BC down on the first drive and went right down the field.  Huge swing in the game.  

BC also had a TD pass that wasn't reeled in by Young right before the half.  The Eagles ended that drive with a missed FG.  

I wouldn't say the gifts were returned 5-fold.  BC had 4 turnovers... W&J had 5, but one of those was a chucked pass at the end of the first half, and another was on a 4th down play where the QB was sacked anyway.  And the 'gifts' you speak of... I think they've been called gifts because they put W&J in scoring position without having to move the ball a yard, something that W&J's turnovers didn't do.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: miz on November 23, 2005, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 23, 2005, 03:14:10 PM
Spin it however you want but it was the pressure that Edwards had from the BC blitzes that decided the game. After Edwards threw the first pick in the endzone, due to pressure, he was reeling. In the second half even when he had time he was throwing it early. He said in the H'burg newspaper that the receivers were supposed to run deeper routes on a couple of his interceptions. Fact is, had he had time to see the break he wouldn't have had to throw it early and hope the ball got to the correct team.

In the 2nd half the W&J qb was taking 1 1/2 to 2 full steps back while the shotgun snap was still in the air.  Never seen that before.  He was clearly rattled by BC's pressure. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 03:36:02 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 23, 2005, 03:14:10 PM
Spin it....
I wasn't spinning anything, Llama.

The better team won Saturday.

I was saying that the Edwards mid-season hand injury DIDN'T play a part in the outcome.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 03:38:28 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 23, 2005, 03:14:57 PM
....they've been called gifts because they put W&J in scoring position without having to move the ball a yard, something that W&J's turnovers didn't do.

Trailing by 2, under 3 mins to play near the BC 30.  Forcing that pass was a GIFT.  That put BC immediately into a scoring position, even with it being 84 yards away.

Again, finally, the better team won Saturday.  One of these days, I'll have the stomach, and take the time, to watch the film and see how much better.  I'm not sure I really want to do that though....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 23, 2005, 03:56:38 PM
Bob,

I'm not going to bother you anymore about it, because I know how tough losing any playoff game is to the true fan.  Last thing: Of the following two plays, I think the 2nd is more of a GIFT turnover.

1) Defensive player making a play for an INT, followed by an 84 yard drive/run for a TD.

2) QB/RB run into each other, resulting in a fumble which the opposition recovers.  It's followed by a 15 yard drive/run for a TD.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 04:01:13 PM
No question whatsoever, mizzou_mofia.  Wasn't disputing that at all.

Good luck, BC & Thiel.  Perhaps the Gregg-mobile will pull into Greenville Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 23, 2005, 04:02:22 PM
You are right Bob. Spinning it was not the correct term. My apologies. Just referencing why BC was the better team on Saturday. Hopefully this Saturday will be as successful for the Eagles. But I know its going to be a Dog-fight, or should I say Cat-fight on Saturday! ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 04:42:31 PM
Looks like some snow in Greenville already!!!

Let's go Tomcats!!!!

Can't wait to see a great playoff game this weekend in Greenville!!!

BC fans drive carefully!!!

Cartel see you at the tailgate...I should be up on Friday depending on the weather!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 05:29:12 PM
Bob,

If you do come out to Greenville who are you pulling for this weekend?

And Pitt, Llama, Mizzomaf, Oline Mom, we will be there early tailgating 9 am! See everyone around

And Happy Thanskgiving PAC board....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 23, 2005, 07:03:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 12:31:08 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 12:21:33 AM
rules are rules

Bingo. This is all in the championships handbook.

Who knows, maybe there's some event going on on campus that day that they thought they couldn't also manage the game.



I'm sure that it has nothing to do with something else going on, on campus.  As a matter of fact I think it has more to do with the desire of winning the second round, and recieve an all expensed paid vacation to Texas or Deleware. True competitors, or "Scrappers" as quoted by BC post patterns don't care were the game is played they just want to, "Get It On".... As I am sure any playoff team wants to do..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 23, 2005, 09:03:28 PM
dry campus????? Is thier really any thing dry about a tailgate???? I just hope their won't be a fight about nascar in the parking lot of the Thiel & BC tailgate, or else the real contact will be in the parkinglot. hahaha
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 23, 2005, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: critic on November 23, 2005, 09:03:28 PM
dry campus????? Is thier really any thing dry about a tailgate???? I just hope their won't be a fight about nascar in the parking lot of the Thiel & BC tailgate, or else the real contact will be in the parkinglot. hahaha

Now don't go make us "Trade Paint" prior to the game! ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 23, 2005, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: critic on November 23, 2005, 07:03:50 PM
I'm sure that it has nothing to do with something else going on, on campus.  As a matter of fact I think it has more to do with the desire of winning the second round, and recieve an all expensed paid vacation to Texas or Deleware. True competitors, or "Scrappers" as quoted by BC post patterns don't care were the game is played they just want to, "Get It On".... As I am sure any playoff team wants to do..
True fans might prefer a home game as our expenses are NOT paid to Texas or Delaware.  BTW - No offense intended towards the good people of Delaware, but it doesn't rank in my top 10 of December vacation destinations  :P.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 23, 2005, 10:25:09 PM
www.ecac.org/feature/feature.asp?id=2198//

  Lambert Trophy rankings.



   I can understand BC not being eligible to win the Lambert Trophy since it is in a mostly southern conference but how is Trinity eligible?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 10:39:06 PM
You haven't heard of Trinity College in Connecticut? Owners of the longest winning streak in Division III, etc?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 23, 2005, 10:40:35 PM
 Thanks for clearing that up. I thought that might be the reason it was not listed as Trinity Texas.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 11:29:41 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 03:38:28 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 23, 2005, 03:14:57 PM
....they've been called gifts because they put W&J in scoring position without having to move the ball a yard, something that W&J's turnovers didn't do.

Trailing by 2, under 3 mins to play near the BC 30.  Forcing that pass was a GIFT.  That put BC immediately into a scoring position, even with it being 84 yards away.


Dang, now that is a compliment!  How many other teams are considered to be in scoring position when they are on their own 16? ;-)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 24, 2005, 06:58:58 AM
  Not that there will be lots of Field Goals kicked on Saturday with the weather but with Thiel being 3 for 11 on FG's do they go for it on 4th down inside the opponents 25 more than most teams? Not that BC is stellar at 6 for 14 on FG's.
  I was just surprised that with all of the Thiel OT wins they did not have a more effective Kicker.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: pakownr97 on November 24, 2005, 10:45:12 AM
Jeremy,

I agree with your one comment about the weather.  I think field goals over 30 yards will not be a factor.  As a Green Bay fan (yeah, I still admit it) I've seen many cold weather games (on TV) where the ball just does NOT go anywhere.  I know Coach Clark, from U of Cincinnati, will be aware of that.

However, the kicking game could be a big part of the game on extra points, short field goals, and especially punting and kickoffs.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2005, 11:09:02 AM
One thing Keith McMillan noted on the game last week is that Thiel has the porential to have a major wind tunnel effect from end zone to end zone, just like Jopson.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 24, 2005, 11:14:49 AM
Currently 6 inches of snow on the ground in Greenville and still falling hard. Visibility is basically zero as severe wind gusts (25 mph) are throwing snow all over the place. It's 21 degrees right now with a wind chill of 4 degrees. Great footballing weather for Western, PA in late November.

To the BC faithful - drive safe on your trek to Greenville. The roads are extremely icy with low visibility.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 24, 2005, 12:38:33 PM
Thanks for the firsthand update spiliskin. I'll bring my snow shovel! ;D
Hopefully most of it will be outta there by tonight and it will be more passable tomorrow afternoon when we hit I80.

Cartel,
I sent you a private message. Thanks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 24, 2005, 01:15:17 PM
I'll be hitting the road with the BC team Friday morning ... maybe some of us posters can get together Friday night?

Llama and I will probably be meeting up once we both get to the hotel we're staying at.  Any Thiel (or W&J) fans game?  We can swap team secrets over a drink or two ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 24, 2005, 01:48:31 PM
LLAMA,

I sent you back your message email me again or call if you have anymore questions.....Take care BW alum and friends who are coming up....

Happy Thanskgiving Everyone!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dutch12 on November 24, 2005, 02:52:42 PM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on November 24, 2005, 06:58:58 AM
  Not that there will be lots of Field Goals kicked on Saturday with the weather but with Thiel being 3 for 11 on FG's do they go for it on 4th down inside the opponents 25 more than most teams? Not that BC is stellar at 6 for 14 on FG's.
  I was just surprised that with all of the Thiel OT wins they did not have a more effective Kicker.

That has been a major concern of mine throughout the season.  Thiel's field goal unit has been less than stellar to say the least.  Not just missed kicks but bad snaps and blocked attempts as well.  If the game comes down to a field goal attempt late in the game it will be very interesting. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 24, 2005, 03:16:14 PM
Blackwell did kick a 47 yard Field Goal for BC vs W&J but missed an extra point. The weather will come into play for both Kickers as well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 24, 2005, 04:17:44 PM
DUTCH,

QuoteThat has been a major concern of mine throughout the season.  Thiel's field goal unit has been less than stellar to say the least.  Not just missed kicks but bad snaps and blocked attempts as well.  If the game comes down to a field goal attempt late in the game it will be very interesting. 

Thiel's unit has been less than stellar but its the blame is not on one person here or there, like you said its been very messy and they have had bad snaps fall starts, poor blocking, and missed kicks.
If anyone can ignore past experience and focus on today and that next kick its leip and his current kicker Koyl.  An all state selection in the state of Ohio he not only has a boot, but the kid has a knack for making plays in big situations.  Thiel will kick field goals this weekend if needed, and their field goal team will come through in the clutch.  They have been messy, but the team has picked them up throughout the season and they will return the favor this weekend. 
Currently still snowing here in cleveland and more is supposed to come down through today and tonight!!!! 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 24, 2005, 05:17:05 PM
 will be interesting wathing the kicking game of the BC &Thiel game, especially if the weather continues to be poor.  More importantly than fieldgoals is the two punt block teams in this contest, both have been blocking punts through out the season. As in all games special teams will be a major deciding factor. 

Any thoughts on the possibility of a shootout,or will this game be an unexpected defensive battle? 

Will these two teams have a different game plan in case of poor weather?

Any toughts from the gurus.....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 24, 2005, 05:33:25 PM
Having predicted that the W&J and BC score would resemble the 59-42 and 55-48 games of years past I don't know what kind of game it will be.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 25, 2005, 03:15:40 AM
I think this game will be lower scoring then orginanally thought. The weather will be an impact but I think the playoffs and defenses will tighten up both teams. I think the weather conditions will help Thiel vs the run and help contain on the D3's top rushers.

Any BC fans coming up Friday night I plan to hit up some local taverns or bars! Let me know if you  will be in town....would love to talk some fball over some drinks as mentioned above! Leaving Pgh around 3ish!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 25, 2005, 06:14:43 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 25, 2005, 03:15:40 AM
I think this game will be lower scoring then orginanally thought. The weather will be an impact but I think the playoffs and defenses will tighten up both teams. I think the weather conditions will help Thiel vs the run and help contain on the D3's top rushers.

Any BC fans coming up Friday night I plan to hit up some local taverns or bars! Let me know if you  will be in town....would love to talk some fball over some drinks as mentioned above! Leaving Pgh around 3ish!

Thanks TBCW,
I got some great info from Cartel. Kid, myself and a few others are planning on going to Quaker State in Sharon. Plan on being there between 7 & 8pm. Also we plan on setting up our tailgate at 9am near you'all by the stadium on Saturday. It will be a great day for some D3 football. Thanks for hospitality ahead of time and good luck to both teams!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: warriors_in_06 on November 25, 2005, 08:03:59 AM
There's seems to be a nice preview of the Thiel-Bridgewater game at the Youngstown Vindicator site: http://www.vindy.com/content/sports/local_regional/index.php, but you have to be a subscriber to get it. Can anyone get it and post it here?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: pakownr97 on November 25, 2005, 09:19:49 AM
Thanks to all of you Thiel posters for wishing a safe journey for all of us BC supporters.  Hopefully a trip to Jopson Field in the beautiful Shenandoah Valley will be in your future so we can return the favor.

Not sure whether I'll be able to make it or not, as I have bronchitis and I don't know if I should or not.  We live in western MD, so its only about a 4 hour trip for us.  We were planning on leaving Saturday around 430am, then staying Saturday night in Sharon.  We've already booked our room.

Please continue to update us on road conditions, as there may be others leaving Saturday am.

I know I'll just lie around and pout if I don't go, but eight hours out in the cold might not be the best thing for me. 

Here's to a clean, well-officiated game with no injuries for either team.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2005, 11:04:47 AM
Quote from: warriors_in_06 on November 25, 2005, 08:03:59 AM
There's seems to be a nice preview of the Thiel-Bridgewater game at the Youngstown Vindicator site: http://www.vindy.com/content/sports/local_regional/index.php, but you have to be a subscriber to get it. Can anyone get it and post it here?

No. That would be a violation of the newspaper's copyright and we wouldn't allow it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 25, 2005, 12:08:55 PM
Pat I am pretty sure you mentioned this earlier, but what games will you be at this weekend?  And were you guys able to get a D3football writer at the Bridgewater vs Thiel game Saturday????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 25, 2005, 12:18:09 PM
The head coach before Leipheimer and crew came in was David Armstrong I believe.  My question is about an article i was reading on d3football about a David Armstrong being fired after one year of being a head coach for Lousiana College.  Is this the same Armstrong who used to coach at Thiel in the early 90's?  Or is it a coincidence that they have the same name if in fact it is????

CONFUSED!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 25, 2005, 12:36:29 PM
Cleveland,

I'm certain that is NOT the same Armstrong. The Dave Armstrong that used to work for Thiel works now for Notre Dame College in Cleveland, OH as the Dean of Admissions. He has been out of coaching since his firing at Thiel after the 2000 season. I'm sure "Dave Armstrong" is a fairly common name.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 25, 2005, 01:21:26 PM
Spliskin,

Thank you and I do believe you are correct that sounds familiar to what Dave Armstrong is doing now a days.  Thanks again....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: pakownr97 on November 25, 2005, 01:37:13 PM
How are the roads up there guys?  I think I'm coming up in the morning.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 25, 2005, 01:58:22 PM
pak,

Roads are fine I am looking out the window now and cars are moving quickly and the highways and streets in the suburban cities are more than clear and easy to drive on.  I got about 7 inches here on the west side of Cleveland and the snow is melting because of the beautiful day,  No clouds and Pure sun!!  With a high of 35 right now.  Roads should be good to drive on tommorrow because no more snow is expected to fall I believe, and the weather is supposed to continue to get warmer with a warm front coming up from the south.  So there will most likely be no snow on the field tommorrow, and there will roads should be clear with just puddles left over from the melting snow.  Happy Trails!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: critic on November 25, 2005, 04:41:04 PM
CARTELL,

DEFFINATELY NOT THE SAME DAVE ARMSTRONG. 

CRITIC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 25, 2005, 06:34:04 PM
Best of luck to Thiel tomorrrow!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 25, 2005, 06:41:29 PM
I am up at Thiel now. The roads are not terrible at least the major ones. Some of the backroads are not perfect but definatly able to navigate. It looks like its going to be pretty nice tomorrow as well. I am hearing mid to upper 30's around kickoff and should be snowfree. We will see. Only baseball players and weather people can be right 30 percent of the time and be hall of famers and keep their jobs.

Again safe travels and Let go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on November 25, 2005, 07:23:09 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 25, 2005, 06:41:29 PM
...Only baseball players and weather people can be right 30 percent of the time and be hall of famers and keep their jobs...

Never heard it put that way, but truer words were never spoken!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 25, 2005, 09:16:10 PM
I'm in Meadville for the night.  The trip was fine and the roads were good and clear.  See ya'll tomorrow.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 25, 2005, 09:22:48 PM
Bwana,

If a MLB player gets 3 hits out of 10 at bats they are hall of famers. I am glad you liked it. I use that analogy alot and people say exactly what you said


Getting closer to gametime!!!

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 25, 2005, 09:41:14 PM
RM,

If your looking for something to do in Meadville, check out Mickey's....It's a pub/restaurant on Park Avenue in Meadville. Good atmosphere & good bar-type food (wings, etc). Not really a "sports bar" but everyone in there is a football fanatic with an appreciation for D3 football given Meadville is the home of Allegheny College and they won the Football National Championship in 1990.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on November 26, 2005, 09:51:57 AM
What is the weather like today in Greenville, PA?  Weather.com says with wind chill it is the equivalent of 10 degrees above zero...and how much snow did that area ultimately get?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: xbcdad on November 26, 2005, 10:01:14 AM
FYI,
Local Harrisonburg newspaper says Highfill will start.

Sorry I'll miss my second playoff game in BC history.
Pak, Mom, and all get those stands rocking for the Defense!
Best to all!
http://www.dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=1760&CHID=3
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 11:10:06 AM
Does Thiel have  a broadcast link? I can get portions of the game on BC radio station 1360 AM in Harrisonburg if I can't get the BC link to work later on.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: xbcdad on November 26, 2005, 11:53:48 AM
Jeremy,
Local broadcast will be on FM 105.1 today not the normal 1360
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 12:07:05 PM
I know. I am going to try to get to the Thiel link since I do not live in the Shenandoah Valley.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 12:22:10 PM
I have the broadcast now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 12:52:19 PM
TD Thiel. 7-7 now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 01:29:39 PM
Thiel 7, BC 7 HALF
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 03:05:12 PM
BC 24, Thiel 13 FINAL

  Good game Thiel. You guys played  a penalty free 1st half to keep yourselves in it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 26, 2005, 03:20:51 PM
Sorry it didn't work out, Tomcats.

Sorry it didn't work out last week too.  Woulda been lots of fun today at your place.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 26, 2005, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 26, 2005, 03:20:51 PM
Sorry it didn't work out, Tomcats.

Sorry it didn't work out last week too.  Woulda been lots of fun today at your place.
Yup - too bad.  Bridgewater definately the better team today - especially on special teams where Thiel was downright ugly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 26, 2005, 06:51:12 PM
great game and great season for thiel. you guys have a bright future ahead of you
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 27, 2005, 12:07:04 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on November 26, 2005, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 26, 2005, 03:20:51 PM
Sorry it didn't work out, Tomcats.

Sorry it didn't work out last week too.  Woulda been lots of fun today at your place.
Yup - too bad.  Bridgewater definately the better team today - especially on special teams where Thiel was downright ugly.

Especially the punter who didn't wear a shoe on his kicking foot ... OUCH!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 27, 2005, 12:07:50 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 26, 2005, 06:51:12 PM
great game and great season for thiel. you guys have a bright future ahead of you

Ditto!

Your fast defense and quick (young) running backs have you looking good for next year!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on November 27, 2005, 01:41:33 AM
I would like to thank the Thiel College administration and the Thiel  football parents for the fabulous tailgate that they provided for the Bridgewater College visitors before today's game.  It was such a wonderful expression of hospitality, not to mention that everybody raved about how delicious all the dishes were.  It was a long drive up, a chilly afternoon and an even longer one back (as the bus the Alumni were on broke down in Somerset.  One of the team buses came back and picked us up so we didn't have to hoof it, thank goodness), but the reception we received was very warm indeed.  You have much to be proud of.  Thank you for your many kindnesses.  You are a first class group of people!  And you have a whale of a football team.  My heart was in my throat for most of the afternoon  Congratulations on an excellent season and your first playoff appearance.  I am absolutely positive it will not be the last.  Keep up the good work!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 27, 2005, 08:30:16 AM
Congrats to Thiel on a "history-making" season. Sorry to see it end and already looking forward to the 2006 kickoff.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jdean on November 27, 2005, 08:41:22 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 26, 2005, 06:51:12 PM
great game and great season for thiel. you guys have a bright future ahead of you

Don't you wish you could say that about Pitt?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 27, 2005, 10:41:17 AM
Great game by 2 great D3 teams. Thiel has everything to be proud of for their great season. As I told a few Thiel posters at the game, its only the beginning. Remember in 2000 BC beat W&J for its first playoff win then went to Trinity and lost in OT. We haven't missed a playoff since with a Stagg appearance, Nat'l Semi bout and the quarters. Build on what you accomplished this year, your program has turned around just as BC's did. Now full steam ahead! Good luck in 2006!

Thanks Cartel & Pitt! Thoroughly enjoyed the Lube and all the pregame beverage. Had to do something to stay warm. ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 27, 2005, 11:18:53 AM
PAC's,

Thiel you have done more than any team in the schools history of over 100 years has ever done.  Your supporters are more than happy and thrilled to see you guys come together as a team and fulfill not only your dreams but the dreams of your fellow alumns. 

You have not only shown us that this program has the right leadership at Thiel, but also that the dreams and accomplishments you have earned on the field will more than likely continue in yourselfs at your place of business and with your future families.  you now know the mind set and the hard work mentality that must be taken with you everyday and carried over after this season, and I know that all of you will bring that mentality into your futures lives and be successful in your prospective fields you go into after graduation.  Thank you for the memories and we are already counting down the days till we get to defend our PAC Title!

Great season T cats!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 27, 2005, 11:36:37 AM
Several great posts!!!

The game was all that I expected for the first 3 quarters. It came down to the simple fact that BC made more big plays then Thiel. The blocked punt and injury to Satterfield took the wind out of the sails of the Tomcats. Like I was saying with some other posters at the game, if Chambers and Satterfield or Blankenship hook up on the 3 balls that were just out his reach it could have been the other way. I also think a healthy Chambers maybe catches those balls but injuries are part of the game. Bottom line is that BC made the big plays and converted several times on third downs to knock the Tomcats out of the playoffs. It was truely a great season Cats! Good luck seniors and I think all will believe that the both these teams have very bright futures.

BC safe traveling this week to Dover! You guys in my mind were the better team on Saturday and deserved to win the game. I enjoyed talking and tailgating with all of the people of BC. Thanks for a great time the brownies were excellent!!! You guys are all class acts and I hope you can pull the victory out this week and in the upcoming weeks! Maybe the future will hold a game at Stone Station so you guys can return the favor and we can play some texas hold'em with Llamaguy!


I think these programs are mirror images and if Thiel is were BC is in five years I will be very happy.

Great job to both teams and coaches on a hard fought game!

Tomcats the bar has been lifted and all Tomcats fans, alumni, players, and coaches are already looking forward to the 2006 opener!!! 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ratlsnak on November 27, 2005, 01:05:12 PM
To all the Thiel supporters... great team and great hospitality.   Everywhere I went, from the Sheetz next to campus, to the tailagate at the stadium, to the concession stand, Thiel fans were always classy.  The players were classy as well as reminded me alot of our 2000 team when we first started making the run that we're on now.  Good luck next year...  I just hope we host so that we can show you our hospitality... without the sub-freezing temperatures and snow.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 28, 2005, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: jdean on November 27, 2005, 08:41:22 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 26, 2005, 06:51:12 PM
great game and great season for thiel. you guys have a bright future ahead of you

Don't you wish you could say that about Pitt?

well that was a low blow. what's that all about?
but yes i wish we could say great season about us, but i think we could easily say we have a bright future ahead of us w/ this recruiting class coming in and some real good players coming back.
anyways, great season thiel; i'm sure we'll see you guys again next year
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 28, 2005, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 28, 2005, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: jdean on November 27, 2005, 08:41:22 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 26, 2005, 06:51:12 PM
great game and great season for thiel. you guys have a bright future ahead of you

Don't you wish you could say that about Pitt?

well that was a low blow. what's that all about?
but yes i wish we could say great season about us, but i think we could easily say we have a bright future ahead of us w/ this recruiting class coming in and some real good players coming back.
anyways, great season thiel; i'm sure we'll see you guys again next year


I agree with you outsider. Pitt will be ready to go next year and Thiel is here to stay!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 28, 2005, 11:32:45 AM
what's the best day for Nadine's Happy Hour?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: e_lee on November 28, 2005, 02:46:43 PM
Congratulations to the Thiel Tomcats on a great season.  Considering where Thiel once was what you accomplished is nothing short of amazing.  Specifically I want to congratulate Darrell Satterfield.  I wish things would have worked out for you at Capital, but it appears that Thiel was a great fit for you and that Capital found their man at QB.  If you read this, Darrell, I hope to run into you sometime back home over Christmas break. 

I tried to make it to the game but my escapades Friday night did not leave room for me to get up early enough and make the 45 minute drive to Thiel for a noon game.  Friday night ran pretty late.

Congrats Thiel and if somebody other than Jack Leipheimer wins DIII National Coach of the Year someone is on the  take.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2005, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: e_lee on November 28, 2005, 02:46:43 PM
Congrats Thiel and if somebody other than Jack Leipheimer wins DIII National Coach of the Year someone is on the  take.

Bob Berezowitz, Jeff McMartin, Michael Drass, Jim Collins, John Audino are good candidates, as well as the obvious ones like Jay Locey, Larry Kehres, whomever wins the national title.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: skoaltrain on November 28, 2005, 03:24:21 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2005, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: e_lee on November 28, 2005, 02:46:43 PM
Congrats Thiel and if somebody other than Jack Leipheimer wins DIII National Coach of the Year someone is on the  take.

Bob Berezowitz, Jeff McMartin, Michael Drass, Jim Collins, John Audino are good candidates, as well as the obvious ones like Jay Locey, Larry Kehres, whomever wins the national title.

Don't forget Coach Mike Clark from Bridgewater?  He is not out of the running yet!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: pakownr97 on November 28, 2005, 05:21:43 PM
Another BC fan here to thank the Thiel crowd for their hospitality.  You guys were great.  That's what D3 football is all about.  You drive five hours to see your team win, but also to catch a look at other campuses (or is it campi?) and meet new people.

Yes, the Bridgewater people came to win, but the truth is, there's more to life than D3 football.  It just doesn't seem like it during playoff time.

Again, thanks for the hot chocolate and the chats.

How about next year, you guys come down to Jopson Field and check out our place?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: e_lee on November 28, 2005, 07:55:48 PM
I could see Jim Collins winning National Coach of the Year if Capital ends the season with a victory.  Having grown up less than an hour from Thiel and having many friends who have attended there I find what Thiel did to be more impressive and more surprising than what Capital is doing right now, and I am a Capital grad former football player for Collins.

Thiel had the ultimate culture of losing.  To go from that to finishing undefeated and winning a play-off game is so impressive.

If Leipheimer doesn't win it, I guess I can accept Jim Collins winning it. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spliskin on November 28, 2005, 09:09:41 PM
I think Leipheimer will definitely get Regional Coach of the Year honors but I think the National Coach of the Year will go to the Ntl Chmp's coach.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 29, 2005, 08:07:58 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2005, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: e_lee on November 28, 2005, 02:46:43 PM
Congrats Thiel and if somebody other than Jack Leipheimer wins DIII National Coach of the Year someone is on the  take.

Bob Berezowitz, Jeff McMartin, Michael Drass, Jim Collins, John Audino are good candidates, as well as the obvious ones like Jay Locey, Larry Kehres, whomever wins the national title.

Pat,

It seems a given that Kehres would be in the running for the NCOY award, but do you really think he could get it without winning the national title?  With the prestige of that program, I have a hard time seeing him win it with a 2-loss team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on November 29, 2005, 08:34:42 AM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 29, 2005, 08:07:58 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2005, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: e_lee on November 28, 2005, 02:46:43 PM
Congrats Thiel and if somebody other than Jack Leipheimer wins DIII National Coach of the Year someone is on the  take.

Bob Berezowitz, Jeff McMartin, Michael Drass, Jim Collins, John Audino are good candidates, as well as the obvious ones like Jay Locey, Larry Kehres, whomever wins the national title.

Pat,

It seems a given that Kehres would be in the running for the NCOY award, but do you really think he could get it without winning the national title?  With the prestige of that program, I have a hard time seeing him win it with a 2-loss team.

Even with a national title I think there are too many great turnarounds this year for Larry Kehres to be in the running for National Coach of  the year.  I would say that Leipheimer taking Thiel to the second round after never being in the playoffs before deserves a good look.  Drass taking Wesley to at least the elite eight makes him a strong canadate as well.  I think too many coaches have far and above exceeded the expectations of their respective programs to give the award to a coach who is expected to go undefeated and compete for the national title year in and year out. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 29, 2005, 09:01:54 AM
And therein lies the difficulty with recognizing the work done by Kehres at Mt. Union.

"...expected to go undefeated and compete for the national title year in and year out."

Any coach that has his program in that condition ought not be excluded from consideration...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 29, 2005, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 29, 2005, 09:01:54 AM
And therein lies the difficulty with recognizing the work done by Kehres at Mt. Union.

"...expected to go undefeated and compete for the national title year in and year out."

Any coach that has his program in that condition ought not be excluded from consideration...

Yeah, I guess we can always consider Kehres.  So here's my consideration for Kehres this year.

On a smaller scale, Bridgewater fans make that argument for Mike Clark each year for ODAC Coach of the Year. 

Clark won the award this year, but he had two things on his side that Kehres doesn't for the national award.
1) Clark went undefeated in conference
2) The biggest surprise in the league was a .500 team.

1) Kehres' MUC has lost 1 more game than most people would have expected to this point in the season. (Will he even win the OAC COY?)
2) Other teams have performed higher than expectations, with similar results to MUC.

So, having considered the easiest criteria for voters who don't have an inside scoop on the changing dynamics of each program, unless MUC wins the title, I'd rule Kehres out for this year's NCOY.

I'd also suggest another name that hasn't been mentioned for it yet.  If (and it's a big IF) Del Valley wins 2 more games, Mangus would be a very strong candidate for the award.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 29, 2005, 10:49:51 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on November 28, 2005, 11:32:45 AM
what's the best day for Nadine's Happy Hour?

They all are good days. $1.25 bottles from 3 to 7!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 29, 2005, 10:56:43 AM
Congrats to Dave Hendricks on being selected to the Aztec Bowl!!! I know you would rather be playing with the Tomcats @ Wesley this upcoming week but this is a great way to cap off a great career for the Tomcats.

Congrats!!!

I am one of those that think Leip also deserves some mentions as coach of the year. I know there are some other strong candidates and the National Champion normally gets selected but the man has brought a near bottom program to a top 20 team and thier first ever playoff apperance. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 02, 2005, 12:12:41 PM
It stinks that there is no Thiel game this week!!! What am I suppossed to do on Saturday's now?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on December 02, 2005, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on December 02, 2005, 12:12:41 PM
It stinks that there is no Thiel game this week!!! What am I suppossed to do on Saturday's now?


OT alert:

Well, there is the #15 nationally ranked Thiel wrestling team at the RIT invitational this weekend.  In an interesting development Thiel just added assistant wrestling coach  Panayot Kirov - 1981 World Cup champ and 5th place finisher in 1980 Olympic games.  In Greenville, there is men's basketball still looking for its first win  against Liberty Bible at 3 pm. :)  Time to switch to d3hoops!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 02, 2005, 01:51:47 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on December 02, 2005, 12:12:41 PM
It stinks that there is no Thiel game this week!!! What am I suppossed to do on Saturday's now?

There you go!  Get one or two little chocolate chips in your mouth, and now you want the WHOLE bag!!!

Pitt, I have many, many years of experience in what you're feeling today!

It's really lousy.  But I did warn you of its coming, if you recall.

Unfortunately, one (or even two) bite(s) of the apple isn't nearly enough!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 02, 2005, 02:01:33 PM
Quote from: OldPhart on December 02, 2005, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on December 02, 2005, 12:12:41 PM
It stinks that there is no Thiel game this week!!! What am I suppossed to do on Saturday's now?


OT alert:

Well, there is the #15 nationally ranked Thiel wrestling team at the RIT invitational this weekend.  In an interesting development Thiel just added assistant wrestling coach  Panayot Kirov - 1981 World Cup champ and 5th place finisher in 1980 Olympic games.  In Greenville, there is men's basketball still looking for its first win  against Liberty Bible at 3 pm. :)  Time to switch to d3hoops!

I did read all of the info on the website but the hour and half drive without a brother playing on either team seems out of the picture. My Dad wants to go to the dog track so I may entertain that possibility...if  not then I am sure I will be at the computer checking this website for some scores or possibly listening to a game or two.

Bob,

You were right it stinks when the road comes to an end but it was an enjoyable season. You never can settle for one or two cookies you definatly want to the whole bag!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 02, 2005, 02:59:25 PM
HAHA DA BULL!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 03, 2005, 04:19:51 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on December 02, 2005, 02:59:25 PM
HAHA DA BULL!

Gotta Love the Da Bull Cartel
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on December 05, 2005, 06:56:35 AM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 29, 2005, 09:32:42 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 29, 2005, 09:01:54 AM
And therein lies the difficulty with recognizing the work done by Kehres at Mt. Union.

"...expected to go undefeated and compete for the national title year in and year out."

Any coach that has his program in that condition ought not be excluded from consideration...

Yeah, I guess we can always consider Kehres.  So here's my consideration for Kehres this year.

On a smaller scale, Bridgewater fans make that argument for Mike Clark each year for ODAC Coach of the Year. 

Clark won the award this year, but he had two things on his side that Kehres doesn't for the national award.
1) Clark went undefeated in conference
2) The biggest surprise in the league was a .500 team.

1) Kehres' MUC has lost 1 more game than most people would have expected to this point in the season. (Will he even win the OAC COY?)
2) Other teams have performed higher than expectations, with similar results to MUC.

So, having considered the easiest criteria for voters who don't have an inside scoop on the changing dynamics of each program, unless MUC wins the title, I'd rule Kehres out for this year's NCOY.

I'd also suggest another name that hasn't been mentioned for it yet.  If (and it's a big IF) Del Valley wins 2 more games, Mangus would be a very strong candidate for the award.


I imagine we ought to add Mike Drass at Welsey to the list of candidates...

After Saturday, I'm a believer!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: religion_major on December 05, 2005, 10:48:49 AM
Drass was on Pat's list.  Discussion here has revolved around whether Thiel's coach should be on the list.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 05, 2005, 11:59:29 AM
I hear that Leip got coach of the year in the region. I think this would put him on the National list. I also think Wesley's coach should be considered as well. He has done a fine job minus the blemish vs Brockport St this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 05, 2005, 08:29:34 PM
Congrats to Coach Leip on being selected as one of the 5 regional coach's of the year!!! Great Job this season was rewarded!!!

Also congrats to the other winners!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SeoulGuy on December 07, 2005, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on December 05, 2005, 11:59:29 AM
I hear that Leip got coach of the year in the region. I think this would put him on the National list. I also think Wesley's coach should be considered as well. He has done a fine job minus the blemish vs Brockport St this year.

Do you really think a 47-0 rout is simply a blemish?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 07, 2005, 11:26:07 AM
Whatever it is, the man (Mike Drass) got the team turned around and after dominating several highly-regarded playoff opponents they are playing in the national semis on Saturday.  I think he should be in the mix for national coach of the year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 07, 2005, 11:48:28 AM
BFB, I highly concur.

How anybody could exclude Drass at this point is difficult to understand--blemish or blowup!

I just can't bring myself to pick them to win Saturday.  Something about a team losing 47-0 to a .500 ballclub.  I'm not sure exactly what it is though!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on December 07, 2005, 04:40:18 PM
Congrats to the Thiel Coach Leip for Regional Coach of the Year!!  You and your staff have really turned the program around!  I enjoyed the hospitality you showed when we were there.

Congrats Coach Leip
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 07, 2005, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on December 07, 2005, 11:26:07 AM
Whatever it is, the man (Mike Drass) got the team turned around and after dominating several highly-regarded playoff opponents they are playing in the national semis on Saturday.  I think he should be in the mix for national coach of the year. 


Without a Doubt!!!

I guess your right a 47-0 loss in not a blemish...just a terrible day...must have been really bad with the way they are rolling now! Wesley wins this week I think he is a lock for COY honors!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: pakownr97 on December 10, 2005, 04:43:55 PM
What Olinemom said.  Congrats to Thiel's Regional Coach of the Year.  See you guys in the playoffs next year...at Bridgewater this time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 11, 2005, 01:31:27 AM
Congrats to B.Chambers for being Co Offensive Player of the Year in the south region this year!....Along with Chambers Minton, Hendricks, and Thompson were all region selections from the south region from Thiel College.

Congrats to the other PAC players who were selected to the All region South Team!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 13, 2005, 11:47:54 PM
Congrats are in order to 3 PAC players after being selected to the AFCA All-American team for this past year.

Dave Hendricks Sr OL Thiel
Aaron Krepps Sr WR W&J
Aaron Margo Sr DB GCC

Congrats to all 3 on great seasons!!!

Title: Will Bridgewater O. Coordinator Colbert take Head Coach job at St. Vincent??:
Post by: Jeremybozz on December 14, 2005, 06:03:40 AM
  Bridgewater VA Associate Head Coach Bob Colbert may be the St. Vincent Head Coach when they begin PAC play in 2007. www.dnronline.com//
  His son is a graduate assistant at Pitt and his brother is Steelers President of Football Operations so this move could make sense.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on December 14, 2005, 11:47:02 AM
It surprises me that Thiel's Brandon Chambers wasn't selected to the AFCA All American team?? any thoughts on that? His stats surpass Krepps (taking nothing away from Krepps, he is a great player) and he even missed some games.
Title: Re: Will Bridgewater O. Coordinator Colbert take Head Coach job at St. Vincent??:
Post by: Bwana on December 14, 2005, 07:40:07 PM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on December 14, 2005, 06:03:40 AM
  Bridgewater VA Associate Head Coach Bob Colbert may be the St. Vincent Head Coach when they begin PAC play in 2007. www.dnronline.com//
  His son is a graduate assistant at Pitt and his brother is Steelers President of Football Operations so this move could make sense.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! not so much noise, maybe the idea will go away!
Title: Re: Will Bridgewater O. Coordinator Colbert take Head Coach job at St. Vincent??:
Post by: PittTBCW on December 15, 2005, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on December 14, 2005, 06:03:40 AM
  Bridgewater VA Associate Head Coach Bob Colbert may be the St. Vincent Head Coach when they begin PAC play in 2007. www.dnronline.com//
  His son is a graduate assistant at Pitt and his brother is Steelers President of Football Operations so this move could make sense.

I know Bret! I think the move would make sense as well!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 15, 2005, 09:46:11 AM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on December 14, 2005, 11:47:02 AM
It surprises me that Thiel's Brandon Chambers wasn't selected to the AFCA All American team?? any thoughts on that? His stats surpass Krepps (taking nothing away from Krepps, he is a great player) and he even missed some games.

I would agree!!! Especially since Chambers was ahead of Krepps in the region voting. Chambers was also co-region offensive player of the year in the south.

I think the fact that Hendricks was hands down an All-American as well that they chose Krepps because he definatly was an All American candidate and normally there are not two selections from the same team.

Just my opinion and I am in no way suggesting that Krepps is not an All American as anyone who has seen him play would agree he is All-American material!

Again Congrats to all!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 18, 2005, 07:48:53 PM
I saw a few more PAC players were named to some all American Teams!!!

Congrats to all members of all the All-American selections!!!

When does the final D3football.com & AFCA Top 25 come out???

Will Thiel finally jump W&J????

Congrats to Mount Union on there win in the Stagg Bowl. The game was great and gave the people a good idea of what D3 football is all about!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 19, 2005, 01:54:23 PM
Congrats to Thiel on a final ranking of 17

Congrats to W&J on a final ranking of 21

Both are according to D3football.com


In addition congrats to the players for winning the Aztec Bowl and representing us well!


Is it the 2006 season yet?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on December 21, 2005, 06:49:52 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on December 19, 2005, 01:54:23 PM
Congrats to Thiel on a final ranking of 17

Congrats to W&J on a final ranking of 21

Both are according to D3football.com


In addition congrats to the players for winning the Aztec Bowl and representing us well!


Is it the 2006 season yet?

Not quite, but if you head over to your nearest shopping  or outlet mall I can guarantee you an opportunity to watch shopping made into a contact sport that will make the Stagg Bowl seem tame!  If you get to see anything like I got to see late this PM, it should hold you over for a few more weeks!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on December 23, 2005, 12:02:05 PM
Bwana,

Did my shopping last night and I agree!

It starts in the parking lots and carries over into the bathrooms!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 29, 2005, 12:43:16 PM
News for PAC fans:
http://www.d3football.com/news.php?item=975
Title: Re: Will Bridgewater O. Coordinator Colbert take Head Coach job at St. Vincent??:
Post by: Bwana on December 29, 2005, 08:40:32 PM
Quote from: Bwana on December 14, 2005, 07:40:07 PM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on December 14, 2005, 06:03:40 AM
  Bridgewater VA Associate Head Coach Bob Colbert may be the St. Vincent Head Coach when they begin PAC play in 2007. www.dnronline.com//
  His son is a graduate assistant at Pitt and his brother is Steelers President of Football Operations so this move could make sense.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! not so much noise, maybe the idea will go away!

OK, who made all the noise and kept the idea alive??? ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on December 29, 2005, 10:24:02 PM
Ok, it was me. I take the blame. I said Brett and Bob's brother being near St. Vincent would factor into the choice and it did big time. The Steelers apparently even practice at St. Vincent for training camp and who can say no to that extra money?
   Good luck to Bob and thanks for his contributions at BC (and JMU with Rip Scherer) over the years. Make no mistake, we will miss Bob with the X's and O's.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bwana on December 30, 2005, 10:55:15 AM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on December 29, 2005, 10:24:02 PM
Ok, it was me. I take the blame. I said Brett and Bob's brother being near St. Vincent would factor into the choice and it did big time. The Steelers apparently even practice at St. Vincent for training camp and who can say no to that extra money?
   Good luck to Bob and thanks for his contributions at BC (and JMU with Rip Scherer) over the years. Make no mistake, we will miss Bob with the X's and O's.

Well, OK, at least you fessed up...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on January 02, 2006, 10:14:33 PM
Congrats to Coach Colbert and welcome to the PAC!!!

I am sure BC will miss you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bmore BC on January 05, 2006, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on December 29, 2005, 10:24:02 PM
Ok, it was me. I take the blame. I said Brett and Bob's brother being near St. Vincent would factor into the choice and it did big time. The Steelers apparently even practice at St. Vincent for training camp and who can say no to that extra money?
   Good luck to Bob and thanks for his contributions at BC (and JMU with Rip Scherer) over the years. Make no mistake, we will miss Bob with the X's and O's.

Rip Scherer.............didn't think anyone was familiar with that name.  Jeremybozz must be an avid football fan.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on January 05, 2006, 11:30:01 AM
i'm familiar w/ that name
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on January 11, 2006, 10:05:21 AM
I am an avid fan and lived in Bridgewater during much of the Scherer era at JMU. I thought his win at Memphis over the Vols would lead to long term success but it was not to be.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on January 13, 2006, 04:39:01 PM
How come Thiel's Dave Hendricks gets named National Lineman of the year by Don Hansens, South Region Lineman of the year, First team All American AFCA, and only honorable mention D3football??  Theres a big difference between named THE BEST lineman in the country-- to being honorable mention...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2006, 06:16:02 PM
Hansen came out almost a month after the rest so you can basically assume that team was waiting to see everyone else's hand before posting theirs -- a consensus team, if you will.

I also know that the people who used to pick Don Hansen's All-American team for him no longer are associated with the publication, so I wonder how it was chosen this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on January 14, 2006, 06:07:55 AM
Congrats to Hendricks on his accomplishments and to the rest of the seniors who put Thiel on the map for good!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on January 23, 2006, 10:15:17 AM
how bout them stillers
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on February 04, 2006, 08:11:41 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW
quote]

Just wanted to say hi!! It's been awhile since we were at Thiel.  Sending e-brownies to hold you over through February! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on February 04, 2006, 08:20:01 PM
Cleveland Cartel --just wanted to touch base with you during the boring winter months without any DIII football.  Am sending some e-brownies for the Super Bowl game tomorrow.  Sure hope the Steelers bring the trophy home to the Eastern part of the country.  Hope Heath Miller has a good game and that Polimalu as well.  He's so good!!  Outsider14 gets to go to the SB as Uncle Kevin came through with the tickets.  I imagine new Head Coach Bob will be there as well.  You all will have another great coach up there in the PAC conference.  I know we will miss him at BC!!  All the best!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on February 06, 2006, 09:07:01 AM
pops let my sister and i use the tickets
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on February 23, 2006, 10:41:54 AM
Hello All!!!

Getting closer to kickoff!!!!


Thiel releases schedule


4 out of 5 on the road to start season

http://www.thiel.edu/athletics/football/schedule-2006.htm

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OSUChemDork on March 02, 2006, 02:47:13 PM
I was very glad to see the three PAC athletes mentioned in the Faces in the Crowd section of SPrts Illustrated.  While not the most glamorous attention, any comment in/on national media is free advertising for your school and its conference.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on March 07, 2006, 06:24:49 PM
Quote from: OSUChemDork on March 02, 2006, 02:47:13 PM
I was very glad to see the three PAC athletes mentioned in the Faces in the Crowd section of SPrts Illustrated.  While not the most glamorous attention, any comment in/on national media is free advertising for your school and its conference.


Which issue and what three athletes I always look at that and missed it.


thanks
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on March 07, 2006, 06:44:18 PM
Just wanted to mention that Coach Leip did a great job at the Coach of the Year football clinic/conference this past weekend. I witnessed it and stayed the whole day and saw three other coaches and his presentation was the best and most benefitial by far. I am not being biased either the guy I was with who is a Westmin alum and others who I knew said he was great. The presentation was very organized and technologically advanced and interesting.


Kudos to Thiel!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on April 10, 2006, 06:44:45 PM
Any early predictions for the PAC in 2006?? Final standings, surprises, disapointments???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on April 12, 2006, 10:44:37 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on April 10, 2006, 06:44:45 PM
Any early predictions for the PAC in 2006?? Final standings, surprises, disapointments???


I am getting excited but I am not ready to predict this year's results quite yet. I am sure everyone will be ready for everyone and that the race for the PAC title will come down to the final weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on April 24, 2006, 06:33:58 PM
st. vincent will not lose a game this year... take it to the bank
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on April 24, 2006, 06:36:51 PM
How about your Pitt Panthers Outsider? Maybe Coach Dave can get them to "run faster". ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on April 26, 2006, 02:25:48 PM
they ain't mine anymore... i've moved on.
but yes the plan is to get faster guys on the field. they moved aliquippa grad tommie campbell from safety to OLB; he runs a 4.49. doug fulmer at DE runs a 4.6-4.7... all these freshmen coming in are faster than most of the team already there.... should be interesting
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on May 02, 2006, 11:31:01 PM
I was at quite a few practices this year. They look much better this year as far quickness and physically. However, I think they are going to struggle. I think they are two years away from being good. The recruiting class will certainly help. Outsider is right they are definatly moving people to be a fast team. Wann did not like what he saw last year vs WVU and is moving guys to address the speed issue.



When does the preseason PAC poll come out????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on May 16, 2006, 03:10:30 PM
Isn't it football season yet???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pacfootballfan on May 16, 2006, 05:28:23 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on May 02, 2006, 11:31:01 PM
When does the preseason PAC poll come out????

I believe it is in late July or early August.

The season can't come fast enough for me! 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: nlwwln on May 22, 2006, 08:56:09 PM
hey who figures to be the contenders in the PAC this year? What kind of team will westminster field next year? I know they have a good core of returning players but the question marks may be on the offensive and defensive lines
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on May 23, 2006, 05:57:44 PM
Quote from: nlwwln on May 22, 2006, 08:56:09 PM
hey who figures to be the contenders in the PAC this year? What kind of team will westminster field next year? I know they have a good core of returning players but the question marks may be on the offensive and defensive lines


I think the PAC will be very competitive again this year and it will come down to the final weekends. I believe the W&J @ Thiel game in the early weeks of the season will be a telling tale. Also I believe TMC will be in it again. Waynesburg lost some key players and Westmini is still not ready to compete for the title in my opinion. Bethany hopefully is on there way back up and Grove City still runs the Wing T so I don't think they can win it. Just my opinion.


Almost football season!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: nlwwln on May 24, 2006, 10:20:18 PM
yea that sounds about right, my guess is its gonna be anyones for the taking. Boy this is one s      l               o                                 w board.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on May 25, 2006, 01:41:47 PM
It will pick up once the preseason poll comes out and we near kickoff for the 2006 season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 25, 2006, 01:48:41 PM
Having new posters will always help. Bring more of your classmates/teammates/fellow alumni on board!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: nlwwln on June 20, 2006, 02:47:01 AM
should be a great year in the PAC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on June 21, 2006, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: nlwwln on June 20, 2006, 02:47:01 AM
should be a great year in the PAC

Hell Yea!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: nlwwln on June 27, 2006, 04:58:06 PM
'sir
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on July 16, 2006, 08:58:06 PM
go bearcats ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CBE on July 17, 2006, 12:46:23 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on April 26, 2006, 02:25:48 PM
they ain't mine anymore... i've moved on.
but yes the plan is to get faster guys on the field. they moved aliquippa grad tommie campbell from safety to OLB; he runs a 4.49. doug fulmer at DE runs a 4.6-4.7... all these freshmen coming in are faster than most of the team already there.... should be interesting
14,
Where have you moved on to?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on July 17, 2006, 11:40:05 AM
I'm at Cornell University now, as an Offensive Assistant / Video Coordinator. Eagle Fan at heart, Bearcat Fan by blood, Big Red fan by contract.  8)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on July 17, 2006, 03:01:10 PM
How you doing Outsider???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on July 17, 2006, 09:41:18 PM
i'm doin well. been busy w/ camps all summer (pitt, psu, cornell, jmu) and moving my parents to latrobe. but good. how bout you? how's the nadine's scene? i may stop down there if i get some time in pittsburgh next week
.....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on July 21, 2006, 11:47:37 AM
I am doing good....busy myself with work and coaching up the Baldiwn Fighting Highlanders. Nadine's is great as usual if you are in the area hit me up and I will meet you for some drinks. Good luck with everything.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on July 31, 2006, 10:59:37 AM
fyi, St. Vincent's College HC Bob Colbert had successful double knee replacement surgery Friday morning. He is in good health and recovering in St. Margaret's Hospital just outside Pittsburgh. He should be released on Tuesday to the loving care of his wife Momma Colbert in Latrobe. If you would like to pass along well wishes (or sympathies to Momma Colbert), email me at bcc28@cornell.edu and I will pass a message along. Thanks

Go Bearcats
and Big Red
and Steelers
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 02, 2006, 02:51:54 PM
I think the preseason poll should be coming out very soon. Maybe even this week. I think Thiel and W&J will be the top 2 teams but where will everyone else fall?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 02, 2006, 04:25:06 PM
Prediction:

Thomas More will crack the top two.  They recruited only for depth this season and they don't need any newcomer to come in and play right away, first time in quite a few years the Saints can say that. 

Word is the Saints had a great offseason and worked hard in the weight training department.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 02, 2006, 10:58:50 PM
Saintsfan,
      I like your outlook this season but I am pretty sure everyteam and coaching staff is going to say that thier team worked hard this offseason. I think its going to be a 3 way race for the championship with TM, Thiel, and W&J.

     I am actually surprised that W&J was not closer in the coaches poll. I figured it would be close for overall. I can't wait for kickoff!!!

GO TOMCATS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 06, 2006, 02:25:56 PM
Congrats to Thiel and W&J on cracking the D3football.com Top 25!!! Camps is very close which means kickoff is very close!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 08, 2006, 12:14:30 PM
What PAC team this year holds the toughest schedule and also could be surprise team of PAC?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 08, 2006, 07:54:16 PM
I think Thiel has probably the toughest schedule. I believe they play 4 out of 1st five on road and their non-conference schedule consists of several playoff teams from a year ago.

I think Thomas More could be the surprise team in the PAC this year. They return alot of people and could knock off either Thiel or W&J.

Camp starts next week!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 09, 2006, 09:13:17 AM
Thiel does have any interesting early away schedule and may be suspect for upset for they did lose some key playes in , QB, WR, defensive secondary and some key O lineman too. Geneva?  returns a good numbeR of players too.
As far as TM, they return alot of key playes on defense, but lose QB's and RB that has been there for last few years as their workhorse and new players on O-Line. they will be tested early in Thiel game
WJ, always consistant team in winning, they lose alot of key players from last years team (offense and defense)and their team(offense) will probably look a good bit difference from 40-50 passes a game. Firts game against Salisbury could prove interesting.
If you look closer at Waynesburg schedule, they play Wesley#7, Thiel#25, WJ#15, TM(votes)and also Wooster who also had some votes on D3 football on poll. They lose some key players as well from last years team.WR, DB.LB New turf this year, different look for some other teams too in conf.
Camp starts tomoorow for some teams I had heard and the teams that can stay the healthiest will prevail.
Should be about the most even (multiple teams, I say 4)the PAC has been in years.
Grove City returns alot of players also from last year too. New QB there should help out in that area.
THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTS PittTBCW
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 10, 2006, 10:04:31 AM
PITT,

I know EVERY team works hard in the off-season.  But what I am saying is you are going to see a visible difference in the team this year compared to last
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gottaloveit on August 10, 2006, 08:28:08 PM
I find it funny that in the national rankings that W&J is ranked higher than Thiel. W&J's coach didn't even pick his team to win the confernce this year he picked Thiel. But yet they get the higher vote in the preseason rankings.
Good Luck to everyone in the PAC this year, play hard and play your best game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 10, 2006, 09:13:46 PM
AC,
Like your insight alot. You made some very very good points. I think the best point was that whoever stays the healthiest will prevail. I agree with you 100%. I also did not realize the tough schedule that Waynesburg plays. Looks like they will be fighting an uphill battle all year seemingly playing a playoff game each week. Nevertheless every week for every team in the PAC is a playoff game until the automatic bid comes into play.

Saints,
     I must has misunderstood your first post. I am exctied to see how they fair now that they got a taste of the conference last year. I am sure there is alot of excitment buzzing around the program now that they are in one of the better DIII conferences now and that the conference is only going to get better with the years and addition of more teams. I look forward to their match up vs Thiel and W&J as I am sure they will be a hungry team just like Thiel was last year.

Gottaloveit,
     If you recall last year Thiel beat W&J @ W&J and did not pass them up in the rankings until later in the year despite having an umblemished record. As I learned last year from the vetern members in the forum that these rankings really are not that all important. DIII is lucky that they get to settle it on the field unlike D1.

Good luck to all teams and healthy camps!

GO TOMCATS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 11, 2006, 01:16:43 AM
Quote from: gottaloveit on August 10, 2006, 08:28:08 PM
I find it funny that in the national rankings that W&J is ranked higher than Thiel. W&J's coach didn't even pick his team to win the confernce this year he picked Thiel. But yet they get the higher vote in the preseason rankings.
Good Luck to everyone in the PAC this year, play hard and play your best game.

In many conferences, the coach isn't allowed to vote for his own team. Perhaps that's why W&J voted for Thiel? Hmm ...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 13, 2006, 06:08:26 PM
Pat I believe in the PAC you are allowed. I am not 100 percent sure but I am pretty sure.
Title: Where will Thiel be after 3 weeks...
Post by: OldPhart on August 13, 2006, 07:18:37 PM
Thiel comes back with a lot of talent - but has lost the Satterfield/Chambers combo which contributed heavily to their run last year.  Now Thiel starts with 2 on the road and one at home.  Last year, Geneva was an NAIA playoff team (1st round exit), Alfred (who many felt were shortchanged by the NCAA) won their ECAC bid agains Maine Maritime in convincing fashion, and Albion (NCAA 1st round loss to Wabash).

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on August 13, 2006, 11:31:16 PM
Pitt,

Its been awhile since i have posted on this board and with camps starting everywhere now i had to get on the gravy train.  Hope all is well with you and the fam is doing good.  All is well here in Cleveland also.  Should be an exciting season with the PAC up for grabs more than ever this season. 

I have one question if anyone can help me out.  I know WJ has lost alot of their production and playmakers with their QB, running back, except for Mendel, and also a couple of tough recievers.  But the always seem to have a good ability to bring in transfers from D 1 schools to fill in those holes.  If you remember Krepps was a transfer into WJ. 


In their write up for this year they talk about a couple of solid transfers and i believe one of them was a QB. 

How have their transfers been so far this year?  What other positions besides QB and will they have an impact for WJ this year? ala Krepps....  when he came to WJ..

And for that matter...Does anyone know if there were any transfers who will make an impact this year for their team?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 14, 2006, 08:01:17 AM
OP and CC

Thiel maybe 1-2 after first 3 games, lost way too many players especially the big play players QB,WR and plenty of Defensive Backs(3). The run game fed off that which will be gone this year and will be 80% run team. Defenses can stack up on that. Surprised they were voted as #1 team in PAC, I still feel this is most balanced Conference has been in years.
WJ will I'm sure be bringing in the transfers, I don't know who they got but they probably were trying for QB first. Not much experience with otther QB after Edwards departed.They have good WR in McCafferty.
Who will be first team to lose in PAC between(WJ, THIEL, TM)
Also, what PAC team will make some news by knocking off a ranked team unexpectedly?

AC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on August 14, 2006, 11:05:22 AM
Cleveland,

Clarification: Krepps was not a D-1 transfer. He came to W&J out of Belle Vernon High School. Played mostly as punt and kickoff returner his freshman year before becoming a regular WR. Also, no D-1 transfers for QB. Two transfers, one, I believe from a DII school and the othehr from D-1AA, are both WR's. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on August 14, 2006, 06:38:15 PM
Bureau Chief,


Thanks for the corrections.  Out of those transfers who are supposely WR's will they have an impact this year? 

AC24,

McCafferty definetly showed talent and the quicks to be a solid possesion reciever for the Presidents this year.

Westminster is not quite ready for the limelight this year.  Grove City sounds as if they will be a stronger team this year with their depth at Runningback.  They might be close to pulling off an upset, but the Wing T will be their downfall as teams will key in their run game.  Bethany has a couple of solid recievers but does not have the fire power to get them to the next level.

In my opinion, Waynesburg with Ryan Abels and Eric Daniels and QB Tres Cobb should be tough to stop and have plenty of experience to win games late in the 4th quarter.  Also Mike Shields WR returns  who led the team with 15.9/yds a catch.  Their oline lost their two tackle positions which is critical, but if you run between the tackles like Waynesburg likes to do it should not be too much of a problem.

The entire D- Line is back including two time all conference junior Mike Czerwien and they have lost a couple of linebackers, but the critical point will be with thier secondary.  They lost everyone and if they can keep the ball in front of them and not get beat deep they will be in all games this year.  This might help them with the graduation of Edwards and Krepps and Satterfield and Chambers.  They could be very well primed for a run at PAC's.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 15, 2006, 08:14:03 AM
CC

Like your prognosis alot on teams, good read on your part on the Waynesburg team. QB, Cobb with a year under his belt should be better prepared mentally to handle leadership role of QB. The team has probably the best 1-2 punch in D3 Football in Abels and Daniels. I watched alot of the games last year in D3 Playoffs and find then tough to surpass skills/speed wise. Abels is explosive and is sneaking up on being Alltime Leading Rusher at WC. 165 yards without a doubt in reach in maybe first game or by second. 3 Time First team ALL PAC speaks for itself. Daniels, small, shifty and is a tough find behind Offesnive line. Sheilds, had good breakout year behind the 2 graduate All Time pass Receivers at WC. Quickness, Hands are good. Other WR position up for grabs. Secondary would be soft spot as you mentioned on D, Coach would be looking for some players to step up in the regard. Speaking of Coach, last year at this time WC started fresh with new Coach to understand team and they of what I have seen in some games last year seemed to start gelling as team in latter part of season. That too, also a plus for team in addition to new field turf should put soeme extra bounce in step for key player's. Early trip to (Wesley#7 ranked) could be problem for Jackets, 2 All American's on team in DE and Safety and retiurners of many from last years playoff team. Wooster 2nd game no easy task as well. Host of Seniors returning
Thomas More, if offense can contribute to solid defensive crew returning (Carlisle, West,Willis)they could turn some heads as well. Thiel, has home games against WJ and Waynesburg which could prove to be big time tests as seasons develops. Their trip to TM will be a test in itself, tough place to play.

Let the fun begin, season about 16-17 days away.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on August 15, 2006, 01:41:55 PM
Cleveland,

Too early to say what, if any, impact the WR transfers will have. Even with the graduation of Krepps, Miller, Soeder, et al, W&J still has some players with some speed and good hands. Experience, however, is another matter. One kid came in from Shippensburg and the other from Lafayette. Will know more after an intrasquad scrimmage this Saturday and after a scrimmage Aug. 26 at Mount Union. The big question for the Presidents is which quarterback can get the ball to the receivers. But I guess these and other questions will be answered during training camp. Should be a competitive PAC season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on August 15, 2006, 06:15:49 PM
Bureau,

Great Insight, and I would be interested in seeing the scrimmage between WJ and Mount.  Is that going to be open to the public? and if so what time?

Thanks....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on August 16, 2006, 07:49:28 AM
haven't been able to keep up w/ posts (been a little busy), but i'm glad it's heating up in here.....
how bout a little SVC pub? http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2549967
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 17, 2006, 09:12:58 PM
Hello All!!!

Glad to see some people popping up now that camps are in session.

CC,

Things are great. I am very busy with my high school camp as well. The fam is well and Matty is coaching with me at Baldwin. We need to meet up for a few cold ones at the ole Topper in Greenville after we catch a game. Hope all is well and say hello to the fam for me.

There were alot of great points made by all of the posters. The point I agree with most is that the conference is up for grabs this  year. I think There may be a blemish on each teams record this year from another PAC foe. I hope that all the competition does not prevent a PAC team from reaching the playoffs. Were getting closer to kickoff and I can't wait. This is my favorite time of the year!

Good Luck Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 18, 2006, 10:13:54 AM
PittTBCW and All

Tomcats should be tough, alot of new faces but should still have the hunger from last year's run.
Had been traveling near Waynesburg yesterday and had to stop and see New Field/Turf. It is awesome looking for sure. Major face lift for college and all sports. Should prove for some interesting plays this year at WC. Looks like a fast track!!
Wesley's season's preview on D3 is very appealing or should I say frightening if you are first or any opponent.
Anyone know much of any scrimmages in PAC? As I travel over-road in the areas wouldn't mind taking a peak.
Two weeks and counting.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on August 21, 2006, 05:22:14 PM
AC,

Wesley should be a force this year no doubt.   

Anybody willing to go out on a limb and pick the offensive and defensive MVP of the PAC for this year? 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 23, 2006, 10:05:55 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on August 21, 2006, 05:22:14 PM
AC,

Wesley should be a force this year no doubt.   

Anybody willing to go out on a limb and pick the offensive and defensive MVP of the PAC for this year? 



CC,

Hope things are well buddy. I think the MVP is hard to pick right now. I think who ever wins the PAC will have a big factor in who wins as well as COY honors.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 24, 2006, 10:10:02 AM
Pitt, CC
Early prognosis from last years season and the previous years performances would show front runner's to be:
Abels, WC off
Carlisle, TM-def

with some pressure from
Cherish, W&J def
Minton,Thiel-off
sleeper's
Mendel WJ-off
Czerwien.WC-def
Maybe a QB that will have breakout year????
THINGS SOON TO KICK-OFF IN ONE WEEK, ALOT OF THE PAC TEAMS GO OUT OF CONFERENCE IN FIRST WEEK SHOULD MAYBE GIVE A LITTLE STORY ABOUT STRENGHT OF CONFERENCE.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 24, 2006, 12:36:29 PM
Too All:

Scrimmages, any news of any unfolds on games that have played so far ??
Also, back to the question of PAC Players Offense  and Defense forr they year.
Each team brings so much of a different look on the field this year both Offensively and Defensively, new players, new positions, high school to college starter's, key players lost that made each team different last year from this year. Key factor, staying healthy. Turnovers and who gets the breaks.
I also believe so much will fall back with Coaching from both sides of the ball.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 25, 2006, 10:09:51 AM
AC,

Very good points and I think you are on the right track as far as conf. honors. We keep getting closer to kickoff baby.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 27, 2006, 05:35:54 PM
CC and All

Anyone have  a chance to see scrimmage with WJ and Mt Union  How did things fare?
6days and counting, any early game predictions  for next weekend in PAC?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 29, 2006, 07:52:04 AM
TO ALL:

REAL SURPRISED OF THE ACTION ON THIS BOARD, HEARD SOME INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT SCRIMMAGE BETWEEN THIEL AND ALLEGHENY.
ANYONE THINKING ABOUT EARLY PREDICTIONS?
SEASON JUST A FEW DAYS AWAY, ANYONE EXCITED ABOUT SEASON UPCOMING, TRYING TO GENERATE SOME CONVERSATION BUT SEEMINGLY TO NO AVAIL.

FIRST WEEKS' UPSET? WILL THERE BE ONE?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on August 29, 2006, 09:11:08 AM
What did you hear about the Thiel and Allegheny scrimmage?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on August 29, 2006, 11:58:15 AM
Mount Union outplayed W&J, but W&J could play with them. If one of W&J's new quarterbacks gels, they could be formidable again.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 29, 2006, 12:06:28 PM
OP

Heard that Allegheny had the upperhand, not sure how many reps first unit(s) had but heard from reliable source though.

Lost alot of critical players to last years squad both O and D.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on August 29, 2006, 12:37:43 PM
This weekends game against Geneva should be a good measuring stick for Thiel to see if they can pickup where they left off.  Geneva is ranked in the top 20 in NAIA.  Should be a good game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on August 29, 2006, 01:26:48 PM
AC,

What about this...Geneva defeats Thiel; Wesley takes down Waynesburg and Salisbury stuns W&J. Strangers things have happened, but considering rebuilding, new players, lost players, etc., those results are not out of the question. Also, maybe a little bit more info on the Allegheny-Thiel scrimmage???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 29, 2006, 01:54:07 PM
OT
I agree with you on Geneva game, RB Nathan from Geneva is swifty, quick feet plus QB is back too and what I have heard is a competitor. On D side of ball, return of Brian Hull inside LB will be nice to have back. Member seeing him play at Yough high school years back, fierce competitor.
Playing in their back yard coukld make game pick-em??

Bureau Chief
What a pretzel that could be, and sure could happen, the larger upset would be WC ovr Wesley since they are ranked as high as 6-7th in one poll.
If the outcomes happen that way this could be a knock off anyone type Saturday in PAC.

As far as Thiel/Allegheny??? had heard that Thiel didn't muster much O in the running game. Passing game needs work.
As far as Allegheny, was able to move ball both on ground and air rather decently.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on August 29, 2006, 02:10:44 PM
How good is Salisbury? Have they lost many players? Can their line match W&J's.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on August 29, 2006, 02:27:32 PM
Den

Games notes for W&J and Salisbury are on the first page
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 29, 2006, 03:33:26 PM
To all...

Being new to the message board, is it OK to discuss the other end of the PAC? How about a Bethany win at Muskingum. They more than held their own in a Friday scrimmage with Juniata and I think the new head coach and coordinators will turn the program around. From what I saw, they can win a couple PAC games this season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 29, 2006, 04:03:49 PM
South Willy,
Thanks for the update, Good news for the Green and White and all involved in the good town of Bethany.
Good fans and great tailgater's.
Things could be up for grabs this year in PAC?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 30, 2006, 01:08:58 PM
Word from Thiel AC scrimmage......

From two pretty good sources that it was about even. Thiel's defense gave up a few big plays but more than half of starters were out. Also held AC to quite a few 3 and outs. Thiel's O was a little shakey as you might figure with a bunch of new faces. Overall both teams will be good teams this year.

The upsets in the first week could definatly happen as well. But I think all the PAC teams will be ready for PAC action especially Thiel as they will be tested early and often in the first several weeks of the season.

Willy,

Bethany will get better as they have a new focused and hard working coaching staff. Think they could win a few games this year but might now win one in the PAC. Still a rebuilding year as it is the first year with the new coach.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on August 30, 2006, 06:10:22 PM
I'm back after a long offseason.  Seems too long.   ;)

I don't know how anyone can make a very stable prediction since it's tough to judge how losses affect a program, as well as not having the daily access to a camp/practice to judge on your own.  Besides, it's not like anyone will report that (name team here) had an 'awful camp'.  Not outside of closed doors anyway.

I'm looking forward to W&J/Allegheny, and will be there.   I'm interested in how Thiel handles the 'bullseye' after winning the PAC, and of course, my alma mater which has only won one PAC title in the past three years. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 30, 2006, 10:57:45 PM
Burgh,

Nice to hear from you!!! Predictions should come later this week.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on August 31, 2006, 07:55:10 AM
You too Pitt, looking foward to good conversation this year.

I should have said I'm looking forward to the opener against Salisbury, but looking forward a bit to AC.  :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on August 31, 2006, 09:44:06 AM
To All:
The prognosticators are out down in ACFC Conference where WJ hosts Salisbury and WC travels to Wesley in what likely could be "Water Bowl" game with storm rolling in. Early pICks from that side of town see it this way? No chance for Jackets it appears, how will Jackets respond? Have 5 in a row at home after this slug fest.  CMU and Grove City should be solid match-up too locally.
Waynesburg 7
Wesley 32

Waynesburg 3
@
Wesley  41

Salisbury 30
Washington & Jefferson 28

Salisbury 27
@
Washington & Jefferson  28

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on August 31, 2006, 10:12:07 AM
Washington & Jefferson recently hired an asst. coach away from Mount Union. Head coach is also from Mount Union.  Another asst. coach hired from W&J's national finalist team in the 90's. Also hired Dawson, W& J's greatest quarterback ever for this year when there is no clear cut number 1 QB. What's happening here?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on August 31, 2006, 05:37:56 PM
New to posting but have Followed for a few years now.

Thought i would start off with some Predictions for the weekend.

Salisbury - 21 @ W&J - 38

Salisbury gives the prez a physical game but speed is the difference and Wj still has it. Look out for the two Qb's. Church(runner) runs one in and Swallow(passer) throws two to Macafferty. O line looks strong thanks to  Cut bags and Todd(the yiz)Young.

Wburgh - 14 @ Wesley - 48

Warrick too much for suspect Jacket D as he throws for 300 plus and 4 td's. this one will be ugly.

Allegheny - 28 @ Westminster - 7

Who does the Titans have on their team? Allegheny wins in a slugfest as Tarquinio is the difference running for 150 and 3 Td's.

Hanover - 10 @ Thomas More - 24

All O against All D. Defense wins out as TMC 's Carlisle has 12 tackles and a sack and Willis has two picks of the pass happy Hanover O.

Bethany-7 @ Muskingum - 13

No one cares in this battle of hapless teams.

Thiel - 14 @ Geneva - 23

Close battle as New Qb for Thiel struggles and throws 2 Int. Minton runs for 100 and two td's but turnovers are the difference.

Good Luck to all

Go Presidents
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 01, 2006, 10:42:31 AM
Will be interesting to see if Geneva tries to run right at Thiel, looks like their O-Line averages about 6-3 280 and the Thiel D-Line is about 5-11 220.  Although Thiel was about the same size last year and sported one of the best run defenses in the country--should be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 01, 2006, 12:11:37 PM
Prediction Time:

W&J 27
Sal. 14

Wesley 42
W'Burg 21

AC 27
Westmini 10

Thiel 21
Geneva 14

TMC 24
Hanover 7

Bethany 14
Musk. 10

GOOD LUCK TO ALL PAC TEAMS!!!

GO TOMCATS!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 11:46:24 AM
Predictions:

Good to see the PAC has - the for the most part - respectable competition this week.  No first week patsies.

I think W&J & Thiel both have to show that they have reloaded on offense.  Weather  may keep the ball on the ground:

W&J over Salisbury: 21 - 16

Wesley over W-burg: 38 - 28 - weather will keep Waynesburg & Abels in striking distance

Allegheny over Westminster: 35 - 10 - gators have improved/Titans haven't

Thiel over Geneva: 24 - 20 - in my mind a "pick 'em."  Thiel brings back enough o-line and running talent to make the difference.

TMC over Hanover: 24 - 13.  It may be just my bias - but it is hard for me to take the HCAC too seriously.

Muskingum over Bethany: 14 - 10.  Bethany is on their way up - but need to recruit and develop more talent before they can win an opener on the road.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 03:26:38 PM
Salisbury 32 W&J 14 - W&J virtually no rushing game, 11 yards with only a minute left :o.  Yikes.

Now a final.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 03:37:09 PM
Gheny 28 Westminster 3 - Gators on 24 of Westmin near end of 3rd.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 03:38:35 PM
Whups - Gheny TD, now 35 to 3
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 03:45:54 PM
Hanover 23 Saints 19 13:39 in 4th - Panther ball on TMC 41.  So far not looking good for week 1 in PAC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 02, 2006, 03:52:57 PM
Who would of thought it might take the Bison to win a game for the PAC the first weekend?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 04:00:34 PM
TMC Hanover under 3 minutes - TMC on Hanover's about the 7 yard line :o
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 04:04:33 PM
TMC 4th down -  Stellman  throws up prayer for touchdown!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 04:15:32 PM
Final: TMC 25 Hanover 23 - congrats to Saints for putting PAC in win column! Anyone have word on Waynesburg/Wesley?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 04:17:48 PM
Quote from: OldPhart on September 02, 2006, 04:15:32 PM
Final: TMC 25 Hanover 23 - congrats to Saints for putting PAC in win column! Anyone have word on Waynesburg/Wesley?

Whups - just got my answer from the waynesburg.edu site = Waynesburg 14 Wesley 41.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 02, 2006, 08:46:09 PM
There is no need to be technical about what happened in Washington today.  They were beaten by a more physical team. 

I don't mean to take away anything from Salisbury by ripping on W&J, but that is where my loyalties lie.  An absolute embarrassment in the trenches.  One of the things I have been concerned about this program under the current staff is their tendency to 'finesse' most of their opponents through their skill positions. 

I can understand the inability to do that with the key senior losses in skill positions, but this team did return basically their offensive line and a pretty good running back with them. 

What a waste of an afternoon watching this beat down.   >:(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 03, 2006, 01:09:50 AM
How bout those Tomcats!!!

Congrats on a 7-0 win!!!

Way to start the season with a great win over Geneva a ranked NAIA Team!!!

Also congrats to the Darkside on a shutout and the O on controling the ball and dominating the rushing game!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on September 03, 2006, 06:24:04 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on September 03, 2006, 01:09:50 AM
How bout those Tomcats!!!

Congrats on a 7-0 win!!!

Way to start the season with a great win over Geneva a ranked NAIA Team!!!

Also congrats to the Darkside on a shutout and the O on controling the ball and dominating the rushing game!!!

A bit on the ugly side, but we'll take it.  Both teams had opportunities to put more points on the scoreboard, with Geneva's fumble of the snap down near the Thiel goal line on 4th down in the early going really being a critical point in this game.  The Darkside D settled down after that and wasn't really tested again until Geneva's final possession of the game.  They bent, but did not break, allowing Geneva to move all of the way down the field with about 3 minutes left, allowing Geneva to convert two 4th downs along the way, until finally getting a 4th down stop on the 4-yard-line in the dying moments of the game.

Blankenship's first INT was bad, but really the only gut-wrenching moment provided by the offense.  The second INT came on 4th down in the Geneva end and was not nearly as critical.  Dane Jones and Tim Van Horn both made good catches throughout the game to keep the sticks moving for Thiel's offense.  It would have been nice to see Blankenship complete one of those deep balls that he overthrew, had Van Horn caught one early, possibly a 98-yard touchdown completion!  (school record, also, perhaps?)  Shoulda, woulda, coulda!

All in all, a good win versus a quality opponent on a slippery field.  More polish will be needed to keep the W's coming, but a good way to get the season underway.  Two consecutive heart-stopping finishes in regular season games for the Cardiac Cats! (3OT vs. CMU)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on September 04, 2006, 02:09:22 AM
Congratulations to the Tomcats on a tight win.  The offense wasn't as crisp as it was last year, but it is to be expected from a somewhat young offense.  You can bet they will make vast improvements in the weeks to come.

The Darkside defense on the other hand posted a shutout, which is what I expect from a Rossi defense with that much experience. 

Keep it up Tomcats!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 04, 2006, 02:45:55 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on September 04, 2006, 02:09:22 AM
Congratulations to the Tomcats on a tight win.  The offense wasn't as crisp as it was last year, but it is to be expected from a somewhat young offense.  You can bet they will make vast improvements in the weeks to come.

The Darkside defense on the other hand posted a shutout, which is what I expect from a Rossi defense with that much experience. 

Keep it up Tomcats!!!!!!!

Darkside90

Nice to see you back lurking in the PAC forum. I know my brother and I miss your RA meetings back in Bane Hall home on the Code Red's. Hope things are well and you are right on target about expecting the best from the Rossi defense!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 04, 2006, 08:57:53 AM
Any Tomcat fans making the trip to Alfred this Saturday?

Let's hope for a dry day in Saxonville. A scrimmage scheduled for Brockport's natural grass turf was moved to Merrill Field's astroturf thanks to Ernesto, and, according to a Brockport fan, was a waste of time.

Nice to see both the Tomcat and Saxon programs having good success of late...I remember AU's few years in the PAC and the dog fights with the Tomcats!

GO SAXONS!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on September 04, 2006, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on September 04, 2006, 08:57:53 AM
Any Tomcat fans making the trip to Alfred this Saturday?

Let's hope for a dry day in Saxonville. A scrimmage scheduled for Brockport's natural grass turf was moved to Merrill Field's astroturf thanks to Ernesto, and, according to a Brockport fan, was a waste of time.

Nice to see both the Tomcat and Saxon programs having good success of late...I remember AU's few years in the PAC and the dog fights with the Tomcats!

GO SAXONS!!

I had considered making the trip to Alfred, but I think that I will be going to the Carnegie Mellon @ Grove City game instead.  I'm looking forward to seeing those two Wing-T offenses go at it and I'm also interested in seeing the improvements that GCC has made to Thorn Field.

I don't really recall any "dog fights" between Alfred and Thiel.  I remember being a freshman in '96 and watching the Saxons whip us. :'(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 04, 2006, 02:42:20 PM
ThielFan:

At Thorn Field, in addition to the Wing-T Festival (will the tailgaters be serving up wings?), you'll see a great marching band, to boot.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 04, 2006, 03:43:59 PM
So I see Thiel drops out of the top 25 after posting a win over Geneva who was ranked #20 in D2 NAIA.......interesting.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 04, 2006, 04:42:34 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on September 04, 2006, 03:43:59 PM
So I see Thiel drops out of the top 25 after posting a win over Geneva who was ranked #20 in D2 NAIA.......interesting.

UW-LAX had to move into the top 25 after defeating D1-AA SD State.  Somebody had to make way for them.  Both W&J & Concordia-Moorhead conveniently lost to make room for UW-LAX as well as one other.  Trinity's 41-0 destruction of East Texas Baptist who had a winning 2005 season was enough to grant the second open spot to Trinity.

Apparently, Thiel's 7-0 thriller against Geneva didn't compare with Whitworth's brilliant performance of sitting on their hands this past weekend   ::) and so Whitworth has the 25 spot instead of Thiel.  Seriously though, Whitworth is a respectable program.  There is no dishonor in being lumped into the same general category as a Whitworth.  However, there is a lot of "noise" in these early polls and there aren't enough data points games for voters to have formed a clear picture.  Besides - I don't think certain voters are very much impressed with the PAC.   Regardless, if Thiel continues winning the polls will take care of themselves.

Thiel's next foe Alfred is not to be taken lightly - that ECAC hammering of Maine Maritime (63-20!) in last year's postseason appeared to be a not so subtle message to the NCAA that they might have bungled the last spot on the 2005 dance card.  Thiel has to win on Saturday before I worry about rankings and whether or not they have been "dissed."

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 04, 2006, 06:21:16 PM
Good Point Old!!!

I find it hard to believe that Thiel would drop out after beating a Top NAIA team but its early so we will see what happens toward the end of the season. I think by the end of the season you will see both W&J and Thiel both in the Top 25 or maybe TMC. But I have to agree that most of the nation is not sold on the PAC yet.

Good Luck to all the PAC teams and I think the Tomcats matchup this week should be a good one as Alfred is going to be a worthy opp. and will be looking to knock off the cats!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 04, 2006, 06:26:40 PM
How about the new Pittsburgh Mayor was part of the PAC.

He was the kicker for W&J I believe up to year 2001 or 2002.

Congrats to Luke!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 04, 2006, 11:08:53 PM
Quote from: OldPhart on September 04, 2006, 04:42:34 PM
Thiel's next foe Alfred is not to be taken lightly - that ECAC hammering of Maine Maritime (63-20!) in last year's postseason appeared to be a not so subtle message to the NCAA that they might have bungled the last spot on the 2005 dance card.  Thiel has to win on Saturday before I worry about rankings and whether or not they have been "dissed."

Alfred, indeed, went full throttle against Maine Maritime, which, I should point out, was without the services of its star running back. It was 56-6 midway through the 3rd when the starters were pulled.

You're right about the NCAA bungling the 2005 dance card. "Regional Rankings" week before finale had Fisher ahead of AU, which was ahead of Wilkes. AU beats Fisher and Wilkes beats an unranked opponent and the Colonels vault over the Saxons? NCAA proved to me that rankings--even theirs--mean nothing.

On Saxon Warriors....o'er every adversity!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on September 05, 2006, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on September 04, 2006, 04:42:34 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on September 04, 2006, 03:43:59 PM
So I see Thiel drops out of the top 25 after posting a win over Geneva who was ranked #20 in D2 NAIA.......interesting.

UW-LAX had to move into the top 25 after defeating D1-AA SD State.  Somebody had to make way for them.  Both W&J & Concordia-Moorhead conveniently lost to make room for UW-LAX as well as one other.  Trinity's 41-0 destruction of East Texas Baptist who had a winning 2005 season was enough to grant the second open spot to Trinity.

Apparently, Thiel's 7-0 thriller against Geneva didn't compare with Whitworth's brilliant performance of sitting on their hands this past weekend   ::) and so Whitworth has the 25 spot instead of Thiel.  Seriously though, Whitworth is a respectable program.  There is no dishonor in being lumped into the same general category as a Whitworth.

I noticed that Thiel dropped out of the Top 25 as well.  I'm not really surprised that they did so.  While they did beat a top NAIA team, this is a Division III poll, and so those games don't count so much.  There were other teams that were impressive this past weekend and perhaps deserved to be in the Top 25 more than Thiel does.

That being said, I am completely mystified by an idle Whitworth program moving ahead of the Tomcats.  They may very well be a respectable program, but if they are getting in on the basis of reputation, why were they not in the Top 25 in the preseason poll?  It's hard for me to make a case for any idle team moving ahead of a winner.  I chalk it up to the fact that the Top 25 is a composite of many voters.  Some who voted for Thiel in the preseason may have been unimpressed by the 7-0 win and did not vote for them after Week 1, while still voting for Whitworth.  Still strange to see.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ThielFan on September 05, 2006, 07:56:33 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on September 04, 2006, 02:42:20 PM
ThielFan:

At Thorn Field, in addition to the Wing-T Festival (will the tailgaters be serving up wings?), you'll see a great marching band, to boot.


LOL about the wings tailgating!  Which band are you referring to?  I saw the Kiltie Band down at CMU last year and I was quite impressed.  They are quite proficient as well as having plenty of spirit for their team.  Grove City traditionally has had a strong marching band as well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 05, 2006, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: ThielFan on September 04, 2006, 12:10:48 PM

I had considered making the trip to Alfred, but I think that I will be going to the Carnegie Mellon @ Grove City game instead.  I'm looking forward to seeing those two Wing-T offenses go at it and I'm also interested in seeing the improvements that GCC has made to Thorn Field.

I don't really recall any "dog fights" between Alfred and Thiel.  I remember being a freshman in '96 and watching the Saxons whip us. :'(

It's funny you should mention the '96 game. Believe it or not, I just watched a tape of that game last week. Score was 20-13 AU late in the third quarter. Thiel completed a long pass to the AU 20 and the Tomcat receiver was knocked out of bounds. There had to have been some words or something and the Tomcats were flagged for unsportsmanlike.... putting them back on the AU 35. Thiel fumbled the very next play. AU then put together a TD drive to make it 27-13 and final score was 34-13.

That one flag and subsequent fumble seemed to take the fight out of the Tomcats or it may have ended up a Thiel win. Final score was AU 34, Thiel 13. Thiel's record that year was dismal at best--but certainly not indicative of their effort. I knew then that it was only a matter of time that Thiel would turn it around.

Looking forward to a good game at Merrill Field Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 05, 2006, 11:00:03 PM
AU,

I think your right. I wish I could be in NY for the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 06:24:08 PM
Theil Fan, Old PHart, Pitt,


I am boggled by the dropping of Thiel and actually not impressed with the rankings.  Also a point that can not be forgotten in the 7-0 thriller was the fact that Hurrican Ernesto soaked the field all night the day before and also for the most the game.  So the conditions where slipperly, wet, muddy, and it is also on the Report from the game notes in the PAC website.  What can you expect with poor field conditions?  Did d3football expect Thiel to have more offense and win bigger?  I am confused also. 
Goodluck Tomcats against a tough Alfred team!!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 06:56:36 PM
Guess you didn't look at who passed Thiel. I think those teams had a better week.

Rain fell in lots of places.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 10:35:59 PM
Pat,

[
QuoteGuess you didn't look at who passed Thiel. I think those teams had a better week.Rain fell in lots of places.

But lets take a look at Thiel's week one opponent vs the two teams who are currently ahead of Thiel.
Thiel: 1-0
Beat Geneva 7-0

Geneva was ranked 20th in the NAIA Div II top 25 and Geneva has been invited to the post-season in 9 of the last 11 seasons).

1994 -  Ranked in Top 20 - NAIA
1995 -  Ranked in Top 15 - NAIA National Championship Series
1996 -  Ranked in Top 10 - NAIA National Championship Series
1997 - Ranked in Top 5 - NAIA National Championship Series
Ranked #1 - National Christian College Athletic Association
1998 - Ranked #1 - NAIA
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
1999 - Ranked in Top 15 - NAIA
Ranked #1 - National Christian College Athletic Association
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
2000 -  Ranked in Top 10 - NAIA
Declined Victory Bowl Bid 
2001 -  Ranked in Top 25 - NAIA
2002 -  Ranked in Top 25 - NAIA
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
2003 -  Ranked in Top 20 - NAIA
NCCAA Victory Bowl Champions
2004 -  Ranked in Top 25 - NAIA
2005 -  Ranked in Top 15 - NAIA National Championship Series
Ranked #1 - National Christian College Athletic Association



#25 Whitworth: 0-0
They did not play last week at all hence they did not have an opportunity to gain or lose any ground in their position they were in last week.  Thiel with the victory had a better week, but dropped below Whitworth who was Idle.

#24 Trinity (Texas): 1-0
Beat East Texas Baptist 41-0.  Their record for the last 5 years is as follows.
Past records2000: (2-8, 1-8 ASC)
2001: (5-5, 4-5 ASC)
2002: (6-4, 6-3 ASC)
2003: (9-3, 8-1 ASC)
2004: (4-6, 4-5 ASC)
2005: (6-4, 6-3 ASC)
2006: (0-1, 0-0 ASC)
Not very impressive.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 10:43:21 PM
I'm not sure why 1994-2004 is at all relevant, CC. Give me a break.

Plus being ranked in the NAIA is not as impressive as being ranked in Division III. A Top 25 in the NAIA is out of 92 football teams. The Top 25 in Division III is out of 230 or so eligible teams.

Being ranked 21st of 92 teams is like being ranked 53rd out of 230 teams. Someone ranked 53rd in our poll might not even get a vote most weeks!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 10:44:44 PM
By the way, you list six years for ETBU, and those are the only six years of the ETBU football program's existence. Don't suppose those first couple years might be a bit misleading, right?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 10:54:04 PM
Pat,

Those are solid facts that Geneva has not been a slouch in football over the last 12 years. 

ETBU being a new program means very little in this discussion maybe adding to the flavor that a Trinity victory over ETBU isn't impressive.

What is your explanation on Whitworth?  They did not play last weekend being Idle what momentum did they have to put them in the 25th spot? 

The Forum understand Thiel being dropped for a victory over a team the voters thought was not a true test.  The forum also understands that a victory would put a Trinity or LA Crosse ahead of Thiel, but not Whitworth. 

What is the reasoning?  The forum would like to know how does a Thiel victory put them behind an idle Whitworth?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 10:59:17 PM
That Thiel should have beaten Geneva (remember, equivalent of 53rd in a 230-team group) by more.

Plus, your conference rival getting skunked at home doesn't reflect very well on the PAC, does it?

Why Trinity and Whitworth? Those were the teams right behind Thiel in the preseason poll. And RIGHT behind Thiel -- by a total of eight points, less than one-third a spot for each voter!

If you only look at a small slice of the poll and don't bother to do the math then you are never going to be able to understand it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 11:07:13 PM
Pat

Answer the question on how Whitworth moved ahead.

The forum doesnt care that our rival was beat by Salisbury or that Waynesburg was smoked by Wesley.  How would the PAC not faring well effect the standings with a Thiel victory as compared to a Whitworth Team who was idle.

Thiel beat a team and Whitworth was idle and they moved up by a "Small Slice"

If we are being narrow minded Pat, Refresh us on why Thiel is where they are now and how Whitworth is in the 25th spot.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 11:10:07 PM
I already told you.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 10:59:17 PM
Why Trinity and Whitworth? Those were the teams right behind Thiel in the preseason poll. And RIGHT behind Thiel -- by a total of eight points, less than one-third a spot for each voter!

There -- since you apparently missed it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 11:11:51 PM
Pat,

Your orginal post:

quote]Guess you didn't look at who passed Thiel. I think those teams had a better week.[/quote]

You can look at the math and the particulars into the voting process, but with all aspects aside look at who had a better week:

Thiel vs Whitworth....

Thiel with a victory had a productive week.  It came out of week 1 with a victory.

Whitworth being idle did not have a better week than a team with a victory.

Thiel had a better week.  Answer to your first statement.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 11:13:19 PM
Well, the voters don't agree with you. That's your opinion. The collective opinion disagrees. Not every win is a good win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 11:15:16 PM
Pat,

Look at this from an outsider view, and not with all the knowledge you have.

A Thiel Victory is better than a team who went idle.

A thiel Loss would be worse than a team who was idle
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 11:16:21 PM
Ehh, no thanks. Not going to dumb things down. This is why our poll is better than the coaches' poll, week in and week out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 11:22:02 PM
Pat,

Stop being a voter for 2 minutes and look at the head to head stats.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 06, 2006, 11:46:40 PM
You're treating it like it's black and white. This is why they are called rankings, and those other things that are based solely on win/loss records are called standings.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: roocru on September 06, 2006, 11:54:40 PM
Cleveland, I have very seldom taken a poster to task in my six years on this board, but you have riled me up.  >:(

Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on September 06, 2006, 11:15:16 PM
Pat,

Look at this from an outsider view, and not with all the knowledge you have.

Cleveland, This quote sums up your argument.  You are saying that Pat should ignore his superior knowledge of D3 football and agree with your less knowledgeable and biased arguments.  I went back and read all 199 of your posts and you have been on this gig about Thiel not getting the respect they desrve for a long while now. Why don't you give it up?  Anyone can see that you are picking selected facts which you think support your side of the argument and are ignoring anything that does not support your side.  Asking Pat to give up being the analyst and look at it from your side?  Why should he do that?

Pat and I have disagreed at times but I have said my piece and let it go.  You are acting like someone who figures if they argue long enough or say it enough times, it will become true.  Let the season play out and don't sweat the small stuff.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 07, 2006, 12:12:31 AM
Unfortunately, not the first argument he's had over rankings. Last year he tried to call the NCAA's quality of wins ranking OUR ranking, even though it clearly says on the quality of wins page that it's the NCAA's formula.

He also tried to take me to task for thinking Central would win the IIAC (not sure what his connection was). But I was right on that too.

Lots of smoke, very little fire.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: roocru on September 07, 2006, 12:43:54 AM
Cleveland,

I received your personal message.  In it you privately accuse me of having too much time on my hands and then make the same arguments all over again to me.  I have played D3 college football, I have been a Texas High School Football Coach for twenty years, and an Athletic Director in Texas for fifteen more.  My teams have won a state championship and have had to win the last game to keep from being o-fer.  My son's team at UMHB lost out on a playoff spot on a very close call due to the rankings of the NCAA and most people felt they got screwed.  They made up for it by playing Linfield in the Finals in Salem the next year.  Actions speak louder than words.  As the Linfield faithful are prone to say "Leave no doubt".  Win by more than 7 and you don't have to worry about the things you seem obsessed with.

I guess I might be getting set in my ways, but your arguments remind me of those parents I have dealt with throughout my career who demand to know why their son/daughter is not getting playing time or starting and then refuse to listen to my  explanations and just think I am biased against their kid for some reason.  I am beginning to think you would argue with a fence post.

I have made my statement , I have backed it up with my evidence, including your own past posts, and like I suggested to you I am now going to let it go and let the other posters make up their own minds.  You will not hear from me regarding this issue again.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 07, 2006, 09:19:52 AM
CC: You coming to Alfred for the game? Anyone from Thiel coming to Alfred?
After all, Alfred isn't the end of the world....although we can see it from here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 07, 2006, 01:37:40 PM
CC, PAT, and ROO,

Great point of views by all of you. CC I agree with you that Thiel should not have dropped out. However, I agree with Pat and ROO's points as well. If Thiel is victorious this week and the following week they will get their respect and break back into the Top 25. If you look at D1 rankings over the years you see teams ranked all over it the first week and drop out after the first week. Heck you even see teams drop out or move before a game is played. What is great that D3 settles it on the field. If their ranked or not ranked they can still get in the playoffs which is different from D1.

Predictions tommorrow

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 07, 2006, 07:05:30 PM
While I agree with Pat "not every win is a good win" it is my view that Thiel's win over Geneva was a good win.  When I voted in the "how will Thiel start the season poll" - I thought that Thiel would be 2-1 with the most LIKELY loss being to Geneva.  I imagine that voters don't follow NAIA and may be less impressed than I am with the win.

But enough of Thiel.  Any thoughts as to the Allegheny/W&J contest?   While D3football poll voters (at this point) think it more likely for W&J to break its losing streak of 2 games than for W&J to to replace Pluto as the ninth planet - the voters favor this outcome by a mere 39 percentage points.  Since Sirianni's tenure  this board has not been graced with the entertaining musings  ;) (I was trying to find the vomit emoticon) of W&J advocates expounding upon tizzles, fushizzles, rizzles, bedizzles and other "izzledom" that was popular in the smack talk days gone by.  However, I am curious as to how those that follow the Presidents seriously think about the visit from the Gator's this weekend. 

Reading the NCAC pick'em board Gheny is a 9.5 point dog to W&J.  At this point I think W&J will cover the spread - especially with this game being under the lights at Cameron Stadium.  The NCAC faithful - while not outright picking Allegheny to win - seems to be picking Allegheny to beat the spread at a 2-1 rate!  I recognize that there may be some bias on the part of the pickers to pick the NCAC team - but I was surprised that the Gator's romp over an arguably weakened Westminster (loss of 11 starters from last year) last week would be enough to push more to Allegheny's side against a 9.5 point spread.

Any thoughts as to the President's chances? ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 07, 2006, 07:21:25 PM
THIEL FANS CRYING ALREADY. CALM DOWN ITS WEEK ONE

Thiel fans you have a solid team which will go to the playoffs. In regards to that #24 Trinity is a way better team than Thiel as for Whitworth i am not familiar with them. I have however witnessed and been on the other end of Texas but whuppins @ W&J and they are far and away superior to teams in the great state of PA. Also plain and simple the NAIA stinks and is basically a glorified D3. Congrats to Thiel on their First game more than i can say for my alma mater.

Now for Predicitons.

Thiel -24 @ AU- 21

A battle that is won in the trenches. Thiel has the advantage in the trenches and in the backfield as Minton runs for 120 and two td's as Blankenship struggles again.

CMU - 31 @ GCC- 17
Wing T battle that CMU cruises in , as they run it alot better than GCC with their 250 pound wing backs with no speed.

Hiram 14 @ Bethany - 17

ANother ho hummer where no one cares. Bethany finally wins though.

Wooster - 28@ Waynesburgh- 17

Close battle where the jackets give the scots all they can handle. Qb play is the difference and Schafer is the difference as he throws for 2 tds and runs one in. Abels gets on track with 140 yds and two scores.

And now for the match up of the week.

Allegheny- 21 @ W&J - 24

W&J is soft and that is sad. Word is their manhood has been taken in the Mount Union Scrimmage and in the Salisbury game. Allegheny will test them with physical play and a solid running of Tarquinio. I look for W&J to bounce back and for Swallow to throw a lot against the Gators as there run D is solid. I do not think the gators are as good a team as Salisbury. Dont be surprised if the Gators spring an upset. Sidebotham FG is the difference.

Good Luck to All

GO WJ

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 07, 2006, 07:46:06 PM
Oldphart in response to your post the word out of W&J is that the team is trying to find itself. its breaking in new skill talent across the board. I believe Swallow will be a good Qb but when you look at the last two its unfair expectations to live up to in Dawson and Edwards. This is year is very comparable to 2004 a team i played on. Edwards and Krepps were new players trying to find there way on a team with everything back on both lines. Look what they did after that year a 12 win season followed by another disappointing season but nonetheless a playoff year. WJ will have to scrap out victories this year and they may lose 2 or 3 games in that process. Also Wj struggles against physical smashmouth teams as it no longer recurits smash mouth kids as we no longer play a smash mouth brand of football. W&J spreads the field with speed and tries to beat you that way. that is the coaches philosphy and as long as he is there thats the style that will be played no matter what anyone says about how good or bad it is. I think they will bounce back against AC and have its struggles yet pull out a victory. Thats my opinion on the situation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 08, 2006, 08:35:05 AM
AU,

Unfortenatly, I have some prior wedding activities to attend to in Erie, PA this weekend, but I would of liked to have gone up to Saxonville!!  Last time i was there was really cold but beautiful with all the snow and the stadium is unbelievable.  I would put money on it that during this time of the year with the seasons changing its a beautiful place to still visit and it won't be 15 degrees outside!  Goodluck TOmcats!

Predictions this week:

WJ vs Gheny

Gheny 24- 20

WJ plays better but the losing skid hits two games in a row for the first time in a long time for WJ.  Scrappy team but just does not have it together just yet.

GC vs Mellon

With the dedication of the Rob Thorn field and GC's home openor they will have all the firepower needed with their multiple RB approach in the wing T.  Being able to rotate their backs in and out they will stay fresh all game and wear down on Mellon to start 1-0.

20- 10

Thiel vs Alfred

This is a tough contest and I believe Alfred has the edge going into upstate NY.  Thiel will play tough defense as it always does and the run game will be working,  but Alfred has to much firepower on the offensive side of the ball for the Darkside.  With their QB, RB, and leading WR all back with a year of experience under their belt it will be tough for Thiel to shut them down all day.  Alfred pulls this one out and the Saxons send a message to D3 and the NCAA that they should not have been snubbed last year, and will not be denied this year to make the playoffs.

Alfred 28-21

Wooster at Waynesburg

Wooster does not have the firepower or the spark it once had in Tony Sutton, but they still have enough in the tank to beat a Talented Waynesburg team as Shepas the old Massillon head coach still tries to get his bearings straight at the college level.  I absolutly love Abels running ability here, but it is not enough as the yellow jackets drop a close one at home.  Good luck in breaking the all time rushing record this weekend Ryan.

Wooster 35- Waynesburg 24

Hiram vs Bethany

The Terriors vs the Bisons.  Sounds intimidating if i am a Terrior!  Unfortenatly for Hiram it works and the bisons with the talent they have at the WR position is too much for the Terriors.  Speed kills and it will put Hiram away midway through the 3rd qtr.

Bisons 34-14

Thomas More and Westmin are off...TM looked tough this past weekend getting the job done at the last seconds against Hanover, and Westmin needs the break after a dreadful showing against Gheny. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 08, 2006, 08:39:43 AM
Pitt,

I am waiting patiently for the Predictions from da bull.  And how about the steelers starting the season just like they ended it.  Playing like super bolw champions for 2 and half quarters getting a little bit of luck with Health Miller stepping out of bounce and Saban not throwing the beanie till after the PAT, and playing the same tune on defense!  Making big plays when needed to step up!  Joey Porter is a beast and Hines Ward has to be the most unselfish player i know.

Looking good to start the season without your talented Ohio QB! 

GO BUCKS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 08, 2006, 08:43:13 AM
Wes Mantooth,

My buddy Ron Burgundy wanted to know how does it feel to be number 2!

I love that movie!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 08, 2006, 11:25:13 AM
CC - I am a bit puzzled by your predications for this week re Thiel/Alfred  ???

The board has gone through a bit of a kerfuffle over top 25 rankings and Thiel's departure from it.  Your voice was one that was grousing about Thiel's drop in the ratings, yet you predict that Thiel will lose this weekend to an unranked team with fewer poll points.  If Thiel really SHOULD be listed in the top 25 shouldn't they be able to handle Alfred?  Or is it your thought that Alfred should be a top 25 team also?   Or have you just reevaluated Thiel's situation and your position and have determined they really SHOULDN'T  be a top 25 team.

I'm not trying to goad you - but I am stumped since your Thiel/Alfred prediction seems to be at odds with your position that Thiel should be a top 25 team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 08, 2006, 12:49:49 PM
Old Phart,

Great Points and I understand why you would be puzzled by my upset.  I do believe Alfred is a solid all around team.  They bring back more starters on both sides of the ball than thiel, and have more lettermen returning from last year.  With all 3 skill positions returning on the offensive side of the ball it will be hard to shut down their offense for 4 quarters.  Thiel has never had a problem with shutting down the run game, but at times there Passing Defense has been burned.  Alfred is a solid team, but solid enough to earn the top 25 ranking?  Well find out tommorrow.  I hope i am wrong!

A team like Alfred that i believe went 9-2, 5-1 in the E8, with solid lettermen returning, and playing at home.  You do not lose!  Both are good teams, but playing at home they have the advantage as any home team would.

Prove me wrong Tomcats!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 08, 2006, 02:02:35 PM
How Bout Dem Steelers!!!

Yes CC the SuperBowl defending champs are back at it with a nice win last night w/out their Ohio QB but a PA QB HAHA.

CC now without further ado its............






DaBull's Prediction Time:

Thiel @ Alfred

I agree that this game will be won in the trenches as mentioned before. With Minton and Thiel's offensive line they will control the line of scrimmage and shorten the game as they grind it out on the ground. The Darkside also will be ready to stop the run after a good performance last week only allowing 2 yards per carry vs Geneva. Although Alfred is a good team with some talent coming back the first game of the year will be a hard fought game with one too many mistakes.

Tomcats 21-10


Grove City vs Car. Mellon

In the shortest game in the history of college football the battle of the wing T attack will go to Mellon. They are better and will spoil the field dedication in Mercer County on Saturday. I think Mellon will be a very good football team this year with alot of experience in key spots back this year.

Mellon 35 GCC 14

Wooster @ Waynesburg

In a track meet that will feature alot of speed and points on the new turf @ Wiley Stadium I see a closer battle as the Jackets are always tough when the trains are running in Washington PA. However, Wooster will be too much at the end and pull off the road victory.

Wooster 42 Waynesburg 31

Hiram @ Bethany

In the battle of the basement. The Bisons show the home crowd that the new staff and team is committed to making Bethany a football contender instead pretender.

Bison 28 - 14

Game of the Week:

Alleg. @ W&J

The battle under the lights will be one to see. The Gators are improved this year while W&J after losing thier home opener is in search of filing the holes left by graduation. The game will be tight all the way through but I think it will come down to QB play. Because of this I see the Gators going home travling up 79 North with a hard fought upset victory. Too many questions for the Presidents as thier smash mouth football is no more and fun and gun is not quite working like a well oiled machine as in years past.

Gators 24 Presidents 21

Good Luck to all teams this week and GO Tomcats!!!!


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 09, 2006, 12:35:38 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on September 07, 2006, 07:05:30 PM
Any thoughts as to the Allegheny/W&J contest?   While D3football poll voters (at this point) think it more likely for W&J to break its losing streak of 2 games than for W&J to to replace Pluto as the ninth planet - the voters favor this outcome by a mere 39 percentage points.  Since Sirianni's tenure  this board has not been graced with the entertaining musings  ;) (I was trying to find the vomit emoticon) of W&J advocates expounding upon tizzles, fushizzles, rizzles, bedizzles and other "izzledom" that was popular in the smack talk days gone by.  However, I am curious as to how those that follow the Presidents seriously think about the visit from the Gator's this weekend. 

Reading the NCAC pick'em board Gheny is a 9.5 point dog to W&J.  At this point I think W&J will cover the spread - especially with this game being under the lights at Cameron Stadium.  The NCAC faithful - while not outright picking Allegheny to win - seems to be picking Allegheny to beat the spread at a 2-1 rate!  I recognize that there may be some bias on the part of the pickers to pick the NCAC team - but I was surprised that the Gator's romp over an arguably weakened Westminster (loss of 11 starters from last year) last week would be enough to push more to Allegheny's side against a 9.5 point spread.

Any thoughts as to the President's chances? ???

Well, I'm assuming I'm one of the few left that post about W&J, and feel like I give my opinion regardless of 'smack' or success (or lack of it) from the program.

As for their chances, who knows?  You would have to legitmately have seen Allegheny and W&J in their contests to really be objective.  The Presidents after last week looked like my little brother when I used to pick on him-overwhelmed and exhausted.  That said, how do they respond after being physically beaten on their home field? 

By the way, who are these people that create the 'spreads' on division III freaking football, and where are the bookies willing to front/pay the money on them?

I find the spreads hysterical.  Regardless of who is favored.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 09, 2006, 02:00:35 PM
7-0 Alfred at Half

Alfred scored after Thiel fumbled on thier own 10 yard line.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DarkSide-D on September 09, 2006, 02:02:04 PM
Are there any Waynesburg ppl out there who could tell me where I could go to listen to the game.  I can't find a link at the school's site.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 09, 2006, 02:19:14 PM
Try the PAC site
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 09, 2006, 02:20:33 PM
Bethany up 14-0

CMU 3-0

Wooster 7-0

Got these from the Thiel Broadcast

2nd half about to start for the Tomcats
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 09, 2006, 02:45:05 PM
Alfred 14-0

Another turnover
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 09, 2006, 02:51:42 PM
Quote from: DarkSide-D on September 09, 2006, 02:02:04 PM
Are there any Waynesburg ppl out there who could tell me where I could go to listen to the game.  I can't find a link at the school's site.


Our Scoreboard has audio links, just as it has since 1999.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DarkSide-D on September 09, 2006, 03:16:01 PM
Thanks PittTBCW,

I couldn't get the link to work for me at their site.  Thanks for the insight though.

Pat, I tried the link, but it only gives me a link to the Wooster site, and like I said, they are not covering the game this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 09, 2006, 04:45:19 PM
Great to see Thiel cheerleaders and fans making it to today's game at Merrill Field. Your noise added to an exciting atmosphere. You've got a VERY TOUGH team. Best of luck on the rest of your season!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 09, 2006, 05:08:59 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on September 09, 2006, 04:45:19 PM
Great to see Thiel cheerleaders and fans making it to today's game at Merrill Field. Your noise added to an exciting atmosphere. You've got a VERY TOUGH team. Best of luck on the rest of your season!

Sorry I couldn't be there - it sounded like an exciting and hard fought game from my radio perspective.  Is there any word about your starting RB?  It is a scary proposition any time you strap somebody to a board and cart them off the field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 09, 2006, 06:07:44 PM
Quote from: DarkSide-D on September 09, 2006, 03:16:01 PM
Thanks PittTBCW,

I couldn't get the link to work for me at their site.  Thanks for the insight though.

Pat, I tried the link, but it only gives me a link to the Wooster site, and like I said, they are not covering the game this week.

Alright, well, that's all I had -- Waynesburg hasn't sent any audio info for us to include.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 10, 2006, 12:10:24 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on September 09, 2006, 05:08:59 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on September 09, 2006, 04:45:19 PM
Great to see Thiel cheerleaders and fans making it to today's game at Merrill Field. Your noise added to an exciting atmosphere. You've got a VERY TOUGH team. Best of luck on the rest of your season!

Sorry I couldn't be there - it sounded like an exciting and hard fought game from my radio perspective.  Is there any word about your starting RB?  It is a scary proposition any time you strap somebody to a board and cart them off the field.

Saw Keeley and his dad an hour or so after the game and they said Julio was taken by Mercy Flight from the Hornell hospital to Strong Memorial in Rochester. Some of his teammates were en route to Rochester to see him. That's all I know.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 10, 2006, 12:19:48 PM
Just after i say W&J is not a smashmouth team anymore they go out and run for 300 yards against a tough Allegheny D. W&J controlled the game throughout although the pass D looked like it didnt want to cover the 10 yard out rout. Nice rebound against a good Allegheny team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 10, 2006, 10:55:50 PM
Tough loss for the Tomcats hopefully they can rebound and get the mojo going against Albion in their home opener.

Congrats to W&J and Bethany on thier wins this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 10, 2006, 11:09:58 PM
Alfred starting TB Julio Fuentes, after taking wicked hit on second half kick-off, lost movement of both arms and legs. Taken to Hornell hospital then Mercy Flight to Strong Memorial in Rochester. After surgery last night, Fuentes had some movement in his arms Sunday morning. Now it's day-to-day....all prayers for our Julio are appreciated.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: roocru on September 10, 2006, 11:29:52 PM
Count me in as one who will pray for his well-being.  I always hate to hear when this kind of injury occurs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on September 11, 2006, 01:47:37 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on September 10, 2006, 11:09:58 PM
Alfred starting TB Julio Fuentes, after taking wicked hit on second half kick-off, lost movement of both arms and legs. Taken to Hornell hospital then Mercy Flight to Strong Memorial in Rochester. After surgery last night, Fuentes had some movement in his arms Sunday morning. Now it's day-to-day....all prayers for our Julio are appreciated.


I know we all have him and his family in our thoughts and prayers.  Please keep us updated.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 11, 2006, 12:57:45 PM
My prayers go out to him and his family.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 11, 2006, 05:54:26 PM
Text of an Alfred University campus-wide e-mail today:

Julio Fuentes, a sophomore criminal justice major, sustained a neck injury during the opening kick-off of the second half of Saturday's football game against Thiel College.

Julio was taken first to St. James Mercy Hospital in Hornell and then transferred to Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester where he is listed in "guarded" condition in the intensive care unit.  "Guarded" means his condition is still being evaluated.

Coach Dave Murray and I are in touch with Julio's mother, and we will be notified when he is able to see friends. In the meantime, Mrs. Fuentes has asked for our prayers for Julio's recovery.  Cards may be sent to him in care of Strong Memorial Hospital, 601 Elmwood Ave. Rochester, NY 14642. 

Julio is a graduate of Olean High School.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on September 11, 2006, 06:54:20 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on September 11, 2006, 05:54:26 PM
Text of an Alfred University campus-wide e-mail today:

Julio Fuentes, a sophomore criminal justice major, sustained a neck injury during the opening kick-off of the second half of Saturday's football game against Thiel College.

Julio was taken first to St. James Mercy Hospital in Hornell and then transferred to Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester where he is listed in "guarded" condition in the intensive care unit.  "Guarded" means his condition is still being evaluated.

Coach Dave Murray and I are in touch with Julio's mother, and we will be notified when he is able to see friends. In the meantime, Mrs. Fuentes has asked for our prayers for Julio's recovery.  Cards may be sent to him in care of Strong Memorial Hospital, 601 Elmwood Ave. Rochester, NY 14642. 

Julio is a graduate of Olean High School.


I hate to say it but "guarded" means much more than that his condition is still bein evaluated.  My prayers continue to go to him and his family and his Alfred U football family.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 13, 2006, 10:04:11 AM
W&J running game will get shut down against Thiel.  Tomcats are too quick, and thats why they have had one of the top run defenses in the country the last couple years.  It's clear W&J doesn't have much of a passing game this year, so when they play a good run Defense, they should struggle.  On the other hand, Thiel hasn't shown much of an offense this year, so looks like when these two teams play it might be a VERY low scoring game- unlike last year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 13, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
Any news on the Fluentes from Alfred???

I believe that W&J and Thiel are both relying on thier experience this year. Because of this you can see that Thiel is trying to win games with their defensive and by running the ball until Blankenship matures which I think will happen before conference games and W&J is running the ball and playing defense where they have the most experience. One team I think that could surprise both of these teams in the conference is Thomas More. They are flying under the radar and could punch both of these teams in the mouth if they are not careful. In addition I think Waynesburg is going to be tough. Bethany even though they had a big win it was against Hiram so I need another game or two to get a better judgement of where they stand. Westminster I think is still rebuilding trying to piece together their program. Grove City runs the Wing T which is hard for some teams to defend. However against the good defenses in the conference they will run into problems and lose.

Good Luck to PAC this week.

Tomcats bounce back against Albion in the home opener!!!

Predictions coming later in the week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 13, 2006, 01:37:48 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on September 13, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
Any news on the Fluentes from Alfred???

Sadly, nothing new. Last report was that he had surgery Saturday night. Heard second hand that he had some movement in his arms Sunday morning. Just day-to-day. AUPepBand prays for his continued healing...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 13, 2006, 03:52:12 PM
Oldtimer for the reasons you say small and quick is the reason why w&j will Run on Thiel. I recall two years ago when a great Thiel Defense that was small and quick gave up 250 yards on the ground to the Presidents. Last year Siranni decided to throw 52 times even though he was having sucess on the ground. Siranni knows he has a good o line and hase three talented backs that can run so he has decided to pound it and if you think that they cannot throw it you are misunderstood as Swallow is a very talented qb who is completing 60% of his passes when they do throw. i beleive Swallow is a better qb then Blankenship.  Should be a good game in a few weeks in gville. I agree that TMC is a good bet to be in the race for a PAC title.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 13, 2006, 04:13:21 PM
Their defense is much improved over 2 years ago.........should be interesting.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 13, 2006, 05:10:48 PM
i dont know how improved without George Kum Ji who is probably the best defensive player in Thiel history maybe greatest player in team history.  Def should be interesting.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 13, 2006, 08:01:39 PM
Quote from: erniesfreestyle on September 13, 2006, 09:58:42 AM
W&J still remains the best team in the PAC despite not winning the conference a year ago. They have 8 returning starters on defense and their entire offensive line coming back. Look for the presidents to do a little more running this year with Sirriani putting his experienced offensive linemen to use and taking advantage of defensive cordinator John kleins dominating defense.   

You mean the 'John Kleins dominating defense' that gave up over 300 yards rushing and over 400 yards in total offense in week one? 

Give them credit for the win at Allegheny, and was much improved from Salisbury, but it's no surprise that the Gators haven't had winning record since 2003.  It's also no surprise that W&J has only one conference title since this program transitioned. 

I'm all for being a homer, but let's also be objective.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 13, 2006, 08:47:15 PM
Allegheny will have a winning record this year and i def wouldnt call W&J defense dominating as Allegheny moved the ball on them most of the game as well the chronicled debacle against Salisbury. Also of note the new PAC is not the same one where Thiel and Waynesburgh should not have even fielded a team. Its no excuse for W&J not to win the conference but to expect them to dominate like years past is not feasable especially with their new acadmic requirements that are higher than previous years. I also remeber a couple years of disappointment under the previous regime at W&J 98 and 2002. On that note i dont think W&J will not have an easy path to a confernce title but we shall see in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 14, 2006, 12:37:01 AM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on September 13, 2006, 08:47:15 PM
Allegheny will have a winning record this year and i def wouldnt call W&J defense dominating as Allegheny moved the ball on them most of the game as well the chronicled debacle against Salisbury. Also of note the new PAC is not the same one where Thiel and Waynesburgh should not have even fielded a team. Its no excuse for W&J not to win the conference but to expect them to dominate like years past is not feasable especially with their new acadmic requirements that are higher than previous years. I also remeber a couple years of disappointment under the previous regime at W&J 98 and 2002. On that note i dont think W&J will not have an easy path to a confernce title but we shall see in the coming weeks.


Do the academic requirements include being able to spell Waynesburg?   :)

Seriously though, several counterpoints:

*  The 'new PAC' is a weak argument, and one consistently used by the coach since he took over.  Thiel I buy, because they made a commitment to the program that wasn't there in previous years.  As for the other programs in the conference, I feel it's a product of W&J's decline more than Waynesburg improving.  A decline from a national program, but still a decline. 

*  I'm curious what these new 'academic standards' are now at W&J that can't have them winning the PAC on a regular basis.  The enrollment is as high as it ever was, and the standards when it comes to average GPA and SAT scores are still competitive, but not as high as they were ten years ago.  Their national standing in the most recent U.S News and World Report continues to drop year after year.  The most current ranking is at 104, barely making the list.   As an alumni, I'm not real thrilled with that, so it baffles me that these drops have occured yet there is something keeping the football program due to academic standards.  After all, they have to be accepted as students first.

*  Nobody is denying past 'disappointments' with the program, but I worry that the expectations this program once created is now buried under excuses.  If the program needs to rebuild, that's understandable.  If people are posting that they are returning linemen that had their hats handed to them by Salisbury and will have a 'dominating defense' and other barbs, then that's a bit out of the box for me.





Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on September 14, 2006, 08:51:24 AM
W&J has gone from 1,100 students to 1550 students in a very short time. Although their academic standards seem to be as high, other colleges are also improving and faster, while W&J transitions into a bigger school. This will probably be good for football in the long run: more boys. I'm also worried about their falling national academic rankings. I hope they have a short term strategy to maintain their very good reputation,
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 14, 2006, 01:17:34 PM
Burghboy excuses would go away with winning and W&J needs to buck up and scrap out some wins this year. As with with academic standards i can remember numerous students when i entered college including myself ashamed to say, that had below a 1000 on their SAT and yet were admitted to the school. After my sopohmore year if an athlete did not have over a 1000 they did not even bother recruiting them.  These students now probably end up at Thiel or Waynesburg(typos happen on my previous spelling :)). Now as for the droppings in standards amongst other colleges that is disappointing. Lets hope that W&J pulls it out this year and stop the disappointments all around.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 14, 2006, 06:31:33 PM
Lets get ready for the weekend with some predictions.

Thomas More 24 @ GCC-0

TMC Defense brings it on the new turf at Grove City shutting down and out the Wing T. Carlisle has 18 tackles and a fumble recovery. Thomas More has the look of a team thats creeping up on Thiel and W&J.

Westminster- 10 @ CMU-28

Westminster has taken over as the worst team in the conference as they do not have much in terms of talent. CMU runs the Wing T all over the Titan D for 300 yards.

Bethany - 14 @ OWU-16

Bethany comes down after a win against probably the worst team in D3 in Hiram. OWU scraps this one out.

Albion- 17 @ Thiel -10

Thiel is struggling on O as the QB play has not been good. Once again they play a quality opponent and come away empty handed as Blankenship throws two more picks which are the difference in this struggle.

Shenandoah- 7 @ Waynesburg - 28

The Yellow Jackets finally get on track after losing to two very good teams. Daniels and Abels come up strong with 250 total rushing yards. Cobb also throws one.

Toss up in the game of the week as Thiel Albion could be a good one but ill be biased and pick W&J.

W&J - 38 @ Hanover- 24

This will be a shootout through and through. Hanover relies on passing pretty much every play and the Presidents D has not shown much on D. Look for 350 plus from the Hanover QB. W&J is coming with the run from everyone wr to rb to qb's even. Looks a lot like Urban Meyer spread option ran at Utah and BG which is where the coaching staff got the new offense three years ago. The run game is the difference as the Presidents ran for close to 500 yards on Hanover last year. Mendel chips in with 200 yards and two td's.

Good Luck to All

Go W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 14, 2006, 06:47:13 PM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on September 14, 2006, 01:17:34 PM
As with with academic standards i can remember numerous students when i entered college including myself ashamed to say, that had below a 1000 on their SAT and yet were admitted to the school. After my sopohmore year if an athlete did not have over a 1000 they did not even bother recruiting them.  These students now probably end up at Thiel or Waynesburg.... as for the droppings in standards amongst other colleges that is disappointing. Lets hope that W&J pulls it out this year and stop the disappointments all around.

Wes-I appreciate your opinion.  I would have to think that if the average SAT score has dropped in total enrollment over the past fifteen years, yet the football program increased their standards, that there would be more than SAT scores as reasons for why they were not recruited.  I do agree that they don't recruit the same players they used to, but not sure if it's for academic reasons as much as the 'style' of player.   They don't have the ties they used to in the WPIAL, but not sure if the player they got ten years ago now has more options or if they are not as attractive to this staff.

I do agree that they stop the disappointments.  I always enjoyed the Hanover matchup through the years and wish it was a home game.  I also hope I shut my complaining pie hole up for about two months!   ;D

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 14, 2006, 10:02:49 PM
Mantooth,

Not a bad prediction for the games this weekend.

After starting off week 1 with a record of 3-2 i am goign to try to get back on track this week, but their are some real tough games out there this week in the PAC....

TMore vs GCC:  Start of PAC play opens up wtih TMORE putting a hurting on GCC on their new home TURF two weeks in a row... Carslisle will put up solid numbers and Tmore's QB will look more comfortable every week in the pocket. 

Tmore wins easily...
35-7


Westminster and Jeff hand continue to struggle with a young team, but give these guys a year or two and they will be tough with added talent here and there.  Unfortenatly CMU is a tough team and proved at the end of last year that the sky is the limit with this Independent team by challenging Thiel to three fun filled overtime periods.

CMU wins....
42-13

Bethany vs OWU...
Bethany and TJ Parker looking solid as usual.  That kid has been a player since he came into the PAC as a freshmen maybe if on a better team he would be appreciated much more from voters for awards.  OWU is not as strong as they once were with Jason Kapone at runningback and going to the playoffs year after year like they once did in the 90's.  This will be a close contest but OWU will take this one as their Oline will open up holes to run all over Bethany.  Parker does have a couple of TD catchs and over 100 yards receiving agaisnt the slower Battling Bishops from Delaware, Ohio.

Final Score

OWU 24- Bethany 21

Waynesburg vs Shenodoah...

Shepas gets his first victory of the year as abels runs for 185 on the day and a pair of scores....
Waynesburg 42-7

WJ vs Hanover....

WJ gets it rolling on the ground early in the contest and continues to pound on Hanover all game with over 300 yards rushing.  Mendel does the usual 150 plus and a score or two.  The passing game is not the same for WJ but they do make progress with this game and also throw for a couple of TD's. 

WJ wins.... 45-14


Thiel vs Albion..
Toughest game this week...
SOme serious pool B points on the line and Thiel will pull out a nail biter at home.  Like i said last week.  Alfred should not lose at home.  And this week its the same as thiel defends its home turf on their home opener.  Minton gets the job done on the ground and so does hess wtih solid touches here and there.  Blankenship will calm down in the 2nd half and will throw for some good yardage.  Albion is not as dominant on the run game with their all time leader rusher in school history graduated from last year, but still a strong team and Thiel pulls out a nail biter in the last 4 minutes.  The darkside closes the door in the end.

Thiel takes victory at home...

17-13
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 15, 2006, 03:44:56 PM
Prediction Time:

Saturday, September 16

Thomas More at Grove City* - 1:30 p.m.

TMC is ready for conference action as they roll past GCC.

TMC 31 GCC 7

Westminster at Carnegie Mellon - noon

CMU continues to play good football and runs through Westminster.

CMU 42 Westmin 14

Bethany at Ohio Wesleyan - 1 p.m.

Bethany looked good last week but they fall short against better competition on the road.

OWU 31 Bethany 21

Albion at Thiel - 1:30 p.m.

After two tough road games the Tomcats fight back in their home opener, but its not pretty.

Thiel 14 Albion 10

Shenandoah at Waynesburg - 1:30 p.m.

Waynesburg shows thier true colors this week and finally gel to get their first win of the season on the new turf at Wiley Stadium.

W'Burg 28 Shen. 14

Washington & Jefferson at Hanover - 1:30 p.m.

W&J improves this week just like last week and its the running game that does the trick for Sirianni and his crew.

W&J 27 Hanover 7

Best of luck this week to all the PAC teams.

Go Tomcats!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 16, 2006, 04:05:40 PM
35-0 W&J over Hanover. First time they have been shut out in 22 years. W&J from the sounds of it threw all over Hanover so evidently the pres have the passing game going again.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 16, 2006, 04:32:36 PM
24-20 albion over Thiel

and 21-20 TMore over GCC

Close games surprised  at the Tmore score in being so close, but I am also shocked with the Albion victory over Thiel at Stober field.  I felt Thiel would have to fight this one out to the end and I guess Albion had enough in the tank to pull out a solid victory on the road.  Anyone who was at games today any posts would be appreciated....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 16, 2006, 08:29:31 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on September 16, 2006, 04:32:36 PM
24-20 albion over Thiel

and 21-20 TMore over GCC

Close games surprised  at the Tmore score in being so close, but I am also shocked with the Albion victory over Thiel at Stober field.  I felt Thiel would have to fight this one out to the end and I guess Albion had enough in the tank to pull out a solid victory on the road.  Anyone who was at games today any posts would be appreciated....



Thiel's special teams mistakes 1) TC onside kick touched before going 10 yards 2) gave up an Albion 4th down fake punt conversion deep in Albion territory allowing Albion to stay alive :P 3) Darious Thompson supposedly touched  ???(not really a muff) a deep punt and allowed Albion to recover it setting up an easy Albion TD. 

Take any one of those miscues away and I think Thiel would have come out the winner.  Got to give Albion credit - they didn't make as many mistakes.

BTW - there was a fund raiser  at today's game to help with medical expenses not covered by insurance for the Alfred U TB Julio Fuentes who was injured at last weeks game the crowd came through for over $350 and the Thiel president chipped in to bring it up to an even $1000.  Check out the significant injuries board if you are interested. AUPepBand has additional info there.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 17, 2006, 07:51:42 PM
Old Phart,

Thanks for that update from the game...

I did not realize those 3 big miscues and it is tough to win games when you have 3 mistakes or bad calls go against you. whatever the case may be. 

Does anyone believe this is a sign to come for this years Thiel squad? 

I will be honest and say I was one of two who picked them in the poll to go 1-2 for the first three games.  Not because of how I felt they would do overall, but those are 3 tough first tests and i believe Thiel can focus on the PAC and punish their foes with their aggressive play like they did last year. 

I am not tryign to take anythign away from this years Squad, but Albion is an upgrade over blufton (Who was an oppenent for the last 5 years), and alfred is a big upgrade compared to an OWU team (Ohio Wesleyan there was a two year deal that expired) who was beat by bethany this weekend after being down 21-0 at halftime in Delaware, Ohio. 

It tells me that these three games tested the will and mental toughness of the Tomcats and having these two losses hurts but i believe it will make them stronger and ready for conference play.  They start next week against a tough Tmoore team in beautiful Kentucky!


Congrats To bethany on the huge comeback win and back to back wins in a long time! 
TJ Parker first team all PAC WR!!  He has my vote!
His stats for the first three games are best in conference...shown below...

T.J. Parker.... BET  SR  3   22  273  3  12.4  7.33   30

Was anyone at the Bethany vs OWU game?  How did they change their strategy to make the 2nd half comeback?

WJ with a solid performance against Hanover in Indiana 35-0.  Any comments from anyone at the game?  Sounds like they played sound football and mistake free for the most part and also being well balanced on offense with plenty of yards on the ground and through the air. 

Poor Waynesburg what is going on in southern PA?  Losing to a winless shenandoah at the time and the Yellow Jackets QB threw 4 interceptions and that will never keep you in games.  Any thoughts on that game and what Waynesburgh should do differently?  Also, Abels their top running back from the last 2 years isn't even in the top 10 PAC rushing, but Eric Daniels their other RB is.  Not to have your soon to be all time leading rusher not even in the top 10 in rushing in the PAC is disturbing.  ANy thoughts??????

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: orangecrushed on September 17, 2006, 10:41:22 PM
Maybe what Waynesburg needs to do is take a mulligan and admit it made a mistake with Shepas. Hiring a high school coach is never a good idea. It's a blueprint for having a program go from two postseason apperances to this in less than two years. Saturday's game was unbelievably bad. How do you lose a game when you give up only four first downs?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 18, 2006, 12:28:51 AM
Waynesburg having their coach leave them late in their offseason last year had a bit to do with it.  I don't know about the current coach, but remember a few Jacket fans chiming in on it at the time as a good move.

That said, let's face it:  Waynesburg's run was like the Pirates of the early 90's.  Short and unlikely to happen unless the planets align perfectly. :)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 18, 2006, 01:18:49 AM
Quote from: orangecrushed on September 17, 2006, 10:41:22 PM
Maybe what Waynesburg needs to do is take a mulligan and admit it made a mistake with Shepas. Hiring a high school coach is never a good idea. 

Never a good idea? That's a pretty broad brush.
Title: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 18, 2006, 08:49:56 AM
Congrats to the two people who voted correctly.

Previous Question: How will Thiel fare given a schedule which starts against 3 teams with postseason appearances last year (Geneva - away, Alfred - away, and Albion - home)?

3-0 -  3 (16.7%)
3-0 but at least one going to OT) - 1 (5.6%)
2-1 - 11 (61.1%)
1-2 - 2 (11.1%)
0-3 - 1 (5.6%)
 
Total Voters: 18
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 18, 2006, 09:28:31 AM
Kid,

I wish i would of done this well on my tests while i was still at college!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 18, 2006, 10:27:33 AM
CC

I wasn't at the Bethany-OWU game but watched it via a video feed. Bethany fumbled twice early in the first half and couldn't seem to get untracked. Held OWU to 3 and out after the second half kickoff and got the passing game going with a 48 toss to FR Cruse. Momentum changed completely after BC scored. At 21-14, OWU had a 4th and 3 at their own 34 and went for it!!! Did get it and BC scored but missed PAT (21-20).
OWU score again but suddenly could stop BC's run or pass and BC scored with 46 seconds to play but missed two point conversion (28-26). BC recovered the on side kick and drove to the 9 where they hit the final pass in the right corner with 1 second on the clock. Was surprised they didn't try a field goal.
TJ Parker had a career day and SR QB Owens was on target throughout the 2nd half. BC backs even ran for over 100 yards in second half. I think the coaches really have the players feeling that they can compete in the upcoming PAC schedule after some tough years. Time will tell as they have two week to prepare for Thiel.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 18, 2006, 10:49:47 AM
The Top 25 poll was right on top of Thiel's slide. Prescient, in fact.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 18, 2006, 01:03:38 PM
CC AND All
Your comments very well taken and mind boggling?
Bethany showing great sign of improvement with offense this year, d still giving up lots of points but a W is a Win  no matter which way you look at it.
Conference starts to heat up more as weeks come into play now.
Down in Poor Waynesburg, some turmoil talk in stands as I hear from some Alumni friends. Do they even want to Win??Not sure why you would throw ball when your up 10-0 at half time  but that was same as Denison game last year up 17-0 at halftime. Then, having your Feature Tailback Abels wrip 10, 12, and 8 yard runs get sent to bench on 4th down and 4 yards (and the fans wondering why)only to have QB sacked for 12 yards loss and possession. Yep, play calling . Hang in there Ryan, your stats prove a great career at Waynesburg . The last 3 years speak for itself.
W&J impressive, tuning up for bigger games down the schedule.
Thiel TMC , Interesting match-up waiting to happen
Grove City may be too much to handle, they can at least score  2 TD's, Waynesburg gets the normal 7-10 pts.
Westminny and Waynesburg battle at end of season could and will be for bottom seat in PAC, this one will be for bragging rights.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 18, 2006, 05:22:32 PM
AC24 and south willy,

Great insight to both games and i respect both of those observations.

South Willy,

When you say Bethany came back against OWU to pull it out in the second half it reminds me of a Thiel team back in 04 (AT OWU) that was down 14-0 at half i believe and came back and in the second half to win 23-21.  I am proud of what Bethany has done so far in the early going, but we will all be watching carefully to see how they play against the PAC.  I believe they can make a move this year with the players they have in place, and if the coaching is able to make second half adjustments as shown against OWU they will be even harder to close out games against.




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 18, 2006, 05:42:54 PM
AC24,

I forgot to add your part, but I cant figure out why Abels seems to be in the doghouse this year?  The kid is a stud runningback and has been unbelievable ever since his freshmen year.  Orange Crush had a great point earlier about highschool coaches making the jump to College. 

I'll say this in defense of Shepas coaching at Massillon is like coaching at a small College.  With the amount of players they have goign out every year, talent, and with the whole town shutting down on friday nights to travel for away games and be at the home games its honestly a huge deal and like a small college.  But at the same token it really isn't. 

I thought this could be a big year for Waynesburg with most of their Defense in intact, two solid runningbacks, quarterback, and having one year of shepas coaching under their belts.  I believed this team would challenge this year instead of later, but PAC play hasn't started so maybe they can iron out the wrinkles early, and play well in league play. 

If Ryan Ables carrys the ball 20- 25 times a game Waynesburg will be in most games they play and have an excellent in chance at winning in the end of games.  Abel's is a  Solid runner, with better than average speed, low to the ground, good leg strength, and does not fumble very often, and he isn't getting the ball in key situations.  Thats a mystery to me.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 18, 2006, 05:58:20 PM
From my playing days @ W&J and being close to Waynesburgh and talking with people who know Abels. I hear that he is not very coachable and has quite an attitude. In 2004 he supposedly quit the team in the middle of a game and was going to transfer.  He did not play against us the game after as Daniels was the leading ground gainer. I dont know if these rumors are true about him or not but that is what i have heard.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 18, 2006, 06:04:50 PM
Wes,

Appreciate the info that is the first that i have ever heard of Abels being uncoachable, but could be a reason of why the amount of plays called his way and his playing time have been cut by the new coaching staff.  Deciding to quit on your team in the middle of a game, if anyone has any actual truth to that statement it would  never knock his play on the field and what he has accomplished but the way he his portrayed by the public could change.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 18, 2006, 07:56:03 PM
CC and Wes
CC, Yep, all goid points on Abels running ability. 1299 yards in season is awesome feat. Eveb if numbers don't get near any of that. 
Wes.....Interesting observation and sounding like some hard feelings when Waynesburg upset WJ three years ago for PAC. . Will be  a long season and staYng healtthy is big part of what teams makes run at PAC Championship. First I heard about the uncoachable item, Coach from this year and previous years had good things to say about him in articles. like all tams in the PAC...., the Hread Coach makes all decsions on what goes on and you are only as good as your last game. Head Coach at W&J stated last year that Abels was head and shoulder's above any running back in PAC. Daniels is good back and is pushing Abels for more reps.
Topsy tervy PAC.....TMC wins on last seconds/minutes heroics the last few weeks, they have magic in TMC country there though. Look out Thiel???Bethany program on an up swing. Grove City freshman QB getting playing time could make for more intersting offense up in Red Country!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 19, 2006, 12:28:05 AM
AC never said he wasnt talented and like i said i dont know if they are true as those were rumors. But you do have to questions what is going on this season and why he didnt get a bunch of carries in the 2004 W&J game when he is there most talented player. We will see how it plays out this year Mendel is looking pretty solid though and he had more yards in the wpial than Abels his senior year. I beleive W&J is the team to beat although TMC is going to challenge them but common opponent wise so far W&J looks to be better as they beat a good Hanover team by 35 and TMC needed a last second gasp to beat them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 19, 2006, 07:58:00 AM
Wes
Sorry if I made you think that way on Abels about talent wise, didn't mean that at all. Yes, confused on what this season has brought so far but PAC play is just starting, can't answer the WJ 2004 game and player participation, the 5 turnovers what reason for the that loss, 3 QB interceptions. Of what I can remember he did play and had a decent average per carry but game lost on turnover's and a phantom call toward end of game.
Mendell is good back, never said he wasn't but he has 5 starter's back on O-line. That is big disparity from Waynesburg O-Line.
Being a follower of WPIAL since I played back in the 70's and also how these kids come to into small colleges locally. Abels was leading rusher in WPIAL in regular season where Mendel's team played in playoff's and also in Single A not 3AAA but regardless both good player's.
I agree with you WJ is still team to beat, Thiel lost alot of player's and had a good season last year with escapable wins at WJ, Waynesburg, CMU.
We all know you still gotta play the game and with turnover's being big part of how things play out could be outcome of game(s).
Week 2 of PAC play could bring out some interesting things, time will tell. After watching Waynesburg game last week and seeing first game played this year on new turf I did notice alot of players slipping on new turf, is this a norm for new sprint turf, had to be at least 6-7 slips from alot of different player's.
Good Luck to all in upcoming week
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 19, 2006, 01:15:26 PM
AC very good points as there is a big difference in size in High Schools but as it turned out both have been productive at the small college level. It will be interesting to watch Kevin Mathews in the future as well who was a productive back at USC and is now a solid weapon for the Presidents. Turnovers are a big key and the reason why Thiel won the conference last year and ruined homecoming for the Presidents. On the turf note it is common on new turf for players to slip as the shredded rubber is very loose and has not been packed in so sometime cleats just go right through it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 19, 2006, 06:50:05 PM
Quote from: AC24#724 on September 18, 2006, 07:56:03 PM
Wes.....Interesting observation and sounding like some hard feelings when Waynesburg upset WJ three years ago for PAC.

Funny, but I don't see any way the guy not being used in their offensive system as much and/or hearing that he is having friction with the coaching staff has anything to do with a football game three years ago.

Sounds more like there is a difference in offensive philosophy with the change in coaching staff more than anything, and the grumbling could be something as simple as having a back with a history of production struggling with the change.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 19, 2006, 09:00:53 PM
Burgh Boy,

Great points, but definetly a mystery.  I was in Massillon, Ohio today and actually talking to some huge football fans down there and they have never been impressed with Shepas and his coaching including a 4-6 record at the highschool level in his last year.  They talked about the questionable play calling he has had in the in past.  All in all they are glad he is somehwere else and they all knew what would happen at Waynesburg once he got there.  I dont know if this will be a short lived homecoming at Waynesburg, but i will say if Abels doesn't get Playing time soon,  Waynesburg will not fare well in the PAC.  He is a playmaker and he needs to be out there on all down including your so called money downs.  Bottom line.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on September 20, 2006, 07:54:16 AM
Last October I had the opportunity to speak with a member of the school administration at Waynesburg who was a veteran of Division II football and had informally helped Jeff Hand when he was the head coach. My concern at the time was the outrageous number of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties being committed by the Jackets which was out of character for the team and the school. His reply was that the problem was being caused by a couple of players and that Shepas was lax regarding on-field discipline. That, plus the 5 losses in 2005 by less than a touchdown and some periodic bizarre play calling should have raised alot of red flags in the 'burg. The timing of Jeff Hand's departure created a big problem for Waynesburg but the solution was already there in the person of offensive coordinator Mike Uremovich, who, from what I understand, wanted the head coaching job but was turned down because he had no previous head coaching experience. Evidently, St. Francis had no such prerequisite!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 20, 2006, 08:45:52 AM
CC,PAC Fan,Burgh Boy.
All interesting and some value to what was said.
CC , you sure seem to be an Ables fan....I agree totally with you on Ables on carries and what production he can produce but if your watching from sideline how valuable can you be for your team, it's all in hands of Coaching and play calling is big part of that call on who's out there and who's not. Standing on sideline trailing 14-10 in 4th quarter is not good football sense from last week as the fans were yelling from stands about why is Ables not in game. Someone said that he was hurt.
Hopefully thngs will get back on page this week for the teams sake(morale issue) where they can utilize other key players like Shields and maybe QB can get back on track after sustaining injury a game back or so. The fans from Shenendoah were all very appreciative about play calling while in rest-room and just said Thanks for giving us this one. Of course , the 4 picks didn't help but..........when you are suppose to be using running game to control clock and keep other team off field.
Coaching philosophy is it to the tee, saw some articles before season started about him and Waynesburg team relying on him to kinda carry the load....as football is team sport but has individual(s) and skilled player's that do and can stick out this may of also be reason that he is not being utilized.
Very interesting trip you had to Massilon sounds like some of the Wooster fans from a week back.
PAC Fan
Has really been somewhat of a mirage on how Coach's left, timing and new one's came in and that they were all competing for same job as Westminny and loser maybe going Waynesburg but they both will be  matched up at end of season. (Waynesburg VS Westminny)
New Coach to conference(Shepas, new guy on the block) was reason for all of the calls (alot of lousy ones)last year, TMC game had like 15-16 penalites and play calling too did also add to the 5 losses . Never Coached football before but I can tell you the easiest offensive play in football is turn and hand off to your RB and have your line open a gap and let the cards fall. Not a bad game plan to me ...but Grove City will be just wanting to pound their fullback off their Wing T offense and then catch em on a sleeper play and that will decide game. Uremovich did have some good play calling, can't take that away from him but he may be like 1-14 in his first two seasons at his new home.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on September 20, 2006, 10:22:37 AM
AC24 -- True, Uremovich has had a struggle on his hands at St. Francis, but he inherited a doormat that had won a total of 3 games in the previous 2 years. That certainly could not be said of the situation that Shepas fell into. He took a conference championship contender and is turning it into a doormat.
Hiring Uremovich would have given Waynesburg some much needed continuity post Jeff Hand.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 20, 2006, 11:42:27 AM
PAC Fan
Nicely put, from Top to Bottom (maybe)and already knowing your strengths on team as well.  Tough call for Coach Uremovich though on pre-req but then  he wanted to go West I had heard thorugh Alumni.
His favorite play was Fullback drag flat pass after faking handoff through line of scrimmage for always substantial yardage and key First downs.
If they threw that wrinkle into offensive play calling now  with FB  Davis who truely is a "House" the sky would be limit.
He's one piece of the mix that has also not been utilized, hey....who knows maybe it's Davis's turn this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2006, 04:19:23 PM
Some Bulletin Board material presented for the Thomas More Saints:

Unbeaten teams that 0-2 Linfield is probably still much better than:
3-0
Carnegie Mellon
Case Western
Ursinus

2-0
Carleton
Newport News
Thomas More
WPI
Rhodes
DePauw
Franklin
WNEC
Miss. Coll.?
Wooster?
W. Conn.?
Puget Sound 

There are more, but I started to feel mean.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 20, 2006, 09:26:59 PM
How about this one saints fan...

is an 1-2 Thiel team or a 2-1 WJ team better than a 2-0 Tmore team???

Great Question that right now I have to think about it more before i give a final answer, but Thiel's competition in the first 3 games has been impressive. Playoff caliber teams from last year and an upgrade from Blufton and OWU from years in the past.  WJ really challenged themselves against a Playoff caliber Salisbury team also.

Tmore has barely squeaked past their last two opponents with a touchdown past in the final minutes of their games.  Against a hanover team that WJ completely white washed  35-0, and against a Grove City team that was exploided by CMU the week before 28-0.  Tmore only beat GCC 21-20.

Tough game for Thiel in Kentucky no doubt about it.

But is a 2-0 Tmore better than a 2-1 WJ or an 1-2 Thiel college team?????

That is the final question.....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on September 20, 2006, 09:56:09 PM
Hi im new to this but there's one think i know is that is thiel is a good team but they did give up a lead in that last lost. I do believe W&J is the TEAM TO BEAT.. I KNOW THAT TMC HAS TO THERE LAST 2 GAMES LIGHTLY AND IT ALMOST HURT THEM.. I THINK TMC WILL BE READY FOR THE 2 OF THEM..  TMC LAST TO GAMES THEY LET BOTH OF THEM TEAMS STAY WITH THEM HURTING THEM SELF...  TMC FEELS VERY STRONG ABOUT THERE RUN D. AND FEELS THAT THEY CAN MIX THINGS UP WITH THIEL NEW QB..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on September 20, 2006, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2006, 04:19:23 PM
Some Bulletin Board material presented for the Thomas More Saints:

Unbeaten teams that 0-2 Linfield is probably still much better than:
3-0
Carnegie Mellon
Case Western
Ursinus

2-0
Carleton
Newport News
Thomas More
WPI
Rhodes
DePauw
Franklin
WNEC
Miss. Coll.?
Wooster?
W. Conn.?
Puget Sound 

There are more, but I started to feel mean.


Number of above teams who are most likely eliminated from playoff consideration with one more loss?

One, Linfield!  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 21, 2006, 09:20:32 AM
CC

I agree with "the great" that tmore has been looking ahead to Thiel and will prove to be a very prepared opponent. Thiel's offense has struggled through 3 games with little improvement. Their first 3 opponents have not been impressive in other games. I think Thiel is down this year and tmore will supply an early season knock out at home. Thiel's defense is only hope to keep it close.
W & J definitely the team to beat, more so as the season progresses.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2006, 09:57:27 AM
Cleveland,

All I can say is one of those questions will be answered on Saturday.  Hanover is usually a tough team...but they are young and you have to look at their record as a number because of who they have played.  Thomas More, Butler, and W&J.  How many teams wouldn't be 0-3 after that run?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 21, 2006, 04:20:58 PM
With a little add in on TMC vs Thiel game, if the magical flags start flying down in Kentucky it will be long day for Thiel.
Thiel's run game will get true test with Defensive Players on TMC especially #23. Should be a good hitting game, may the strong stand tall. Diffference will be key plays by QB.
Oberlin?????will they have anything for W&J?
Big Red comes to Big Burnt Orange country where things will and must get better.
Hopefully a dry Saturday for all games until over, then the rain can come in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 21, 2006, 06:39:26 PM
Its that time of the week again for predictions. Some answers will begin to unfold in the conference race.

Lets start in Waynesburg

GCC-23 @ Waynesburg - 14

Coaching and player distractions abound in this game. Waynesburg fans start a Firerickshepas website after the game. GCC is showing somewhat of a passing game with Freshman Phenom DiDinonato from South Fayette look for them to scrap it out after a Jacket turnover.

W&J - 42 @ Oberlin- 7

W&J cruises past Oberlin as Mendel churns out 130 and two TD's and Swallow throws two more. W&J O looks to be coming together just in time for the showdown in greenville in two weeks.

Adrian-28 @ Westminster - 0

Adrian wallops the Titans on there homefield as they are easily the worst team in the conference. Jeff Hand needs some of his Waynesburg Magic for this sinking ship.

And The Game Of The Week

Thiel- 7 @ TMC - 10

Neither teams have much on O but do have dominating Defenses. Minton Scores and early TD and they hold the lead until the fourth when the Stellman and Weber Combo hook up for another game winner.

Good Luck to All

Go W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 22, 2006, 07:34:55 AM

Let the swammy try some picks, starting in big game of week.
Thiel 14   
TMC 10
Defensive battle but the team that runs the ball best will win and that would be Thiel but then again if the flags start flying down there as I've seen happen before and more than once TMC gets win and goes into Waynesburg on a roll. Carlisle and Minton will be the difference. Willis make big pick could also be difference.
WJ 21
Oberlin 17
WJ can't look ahead, Oberlin put up some big offensive stats in last weeks game against a less formiddable opponent but WJ as good offense and caught Hanover in big rollover. Running game with different weapons, Mendel and Mathews, MCCafferty from the air strike again.
Adrian 21
Westminny 3
Lopside affair and could be worse, Maybe Coach Hand should of stayed at Waynesburg to keep in a proper perspective with player selection and play calling. But wished to be closer to hometown, they do have motor homes out there???
Waynesburg 21
GC 10
Possibly this is week where things get back on the run-way in Burnt Orange country. Defense will need to be up to snuff on Wing T and Running game with Abels and Daniels will move ball. Possibly "history" in makings there if Offense gives RB #7 a chance to showcase his talents which has been not the case this year. Coaching could part of outcome this week but turnover's have been numerous and protecting the ball is critical. This will be a big lift for Jackets with win and must be ready for TMC next week which will be stiff test.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2006, 08:22:12 AM
Magical flags?

I don't see what you guys are saying.....they will be PAC referees right?   The Saints homefield advantage does NOT include the referees being on their side.   Sounds like you guys think the refs live around Thomas More and are TMC grads or something. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 22, 2006, 10:03:08 AM
Saints Fan

All I am saying when I read and heard how things were so out of perspective last year when 15 flags were called in one game against a team that visited KY last year and when the QB who was running out of bounds got hit 5 yards out of bounds and season ending injury cost him on that late hit and nothing was called. I heard even the ref even almost got hit on the same play as well out of bounds. What more to the truth was that some Saints Fan in parking lot saying the game got out of control Ref wise. Maybe these guys are the same guys that ref'd the Oklahoma and Oregon game last weekend.
Oh well, hopefully a hard fought and fair contest this week will be in store.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 22, 2006, 05:26:00 PM
Nice Prediction Boys....

Good Games scheduled but there should also be some lobsided games if teams continue to play the way they have in the early weeks so far.

The Cartel predicts....

Thiel 13

Tmore 10

Minton typical TD to get the game rolling and then the defensive stalemate starts up.  Carslile will have his typical 15 tackle or more game.  My man from Benedictine high Sammy Koyl puts through a 31 yard field goal with 15 seconds left to play leaving Tmore not enough time to move the ball down the field to deliver some last second magic.
Thiel gets back on track and control of the PAC with a solid league victory.

WJ 49

Oberlin 14

Oberlin is performing at a higher level as opposed to years in the past when they were the doormat of Division 3 football.  Mendel solid game due to the rainy weather predicted in the area throughout the day saturday.  The passing game will have their moments but this one belongs on the ground and WJ will rack up 300 yards plus of yardage on the ground.  Mendle 3 touchdowns and a swallow touchdown pass will be good enough!

Adrian 28

WEstMin 10

Adrian a tough team out of the MIAA will be too much for WEsmin to handle.  And like AC24 posted Jeff hand should of stayed at Waynesburg and watch that taleneted group of players that are seniors now dominate like they should be doing.

Waynesburg 21

GCC 14

Tough battle up front ultimately one by the Yellow Jackets.  Abels gets back on track with a solid 2 touchdown day and over 100 yards rushing against a stingy GCC defense. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 23, 2006, 05:25:26 PM
Thiel with a tough overtime victory in Kentucky today!!!  17-14....

Sammy Koyl hitting the final points for the victory in OT!!!!

Close to my prediction.....

Solid work Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 25, 2006, 08:31:14 AM
CC
You wrote a near perfect script for the Thiel/TMC game, if you were there to witness the kick could of made it perfect. Great Call. By looking at the box score, running games could not appear to get off the ground. Any OT games are exciting.
It appears we were all of target up in Westminny country where QB had a solid gane throwing for big yards.
Who dey? Who he?  The he is down in Waynesburg where Rushing Record was broken by Ryan Abels in what I must say was the most electrifying run to witness to put the drama to end in his quest to break record in mid-late 4th quarter where a 57 yard run was more like a 100 yard run going from one side line to the other and then back where great down field blocks were key to run being successful.  QB Tres Cobb return good added touch to getting offense in synch.
The win was very needed there which sets up showdown with TMC this week.
Will Bethany be ready to get into PAC play and be prepared with WJ?
All new stories to unfold in upcoming week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 25, 2006, 09:00:02 PM
AC,

Thanks for the call on the Thiel/TMC game... Sounded like a tremendous football game and from hearing it on the radio it seemed like Tmore was going to run away with it after the first quarter.  The tomcats battled back with their special teams and their offense was able to pull a trick out of Tmores playbook and score wtih seconds remaining to send the game into overtime.  Thiel showed why they are the PAC defending champs, but concern has to be boiling over as their offense has not yet been able to get on track and is averaging over 9 points per game.  That will catch up to you later on in PAC play.

WJ stayed on the victory path against a well schooled Oberlin team 33-13.  I have friends who are coaches there and one being the D coordinator for Oberlin.  Oberlin is a good team well tooled but does not have the talent like WJ.  Mendle and swallow with solid games and a great victory for WJ. 

Ryan Ables again congrats on the accomplishment of becoming the all time leading rusher at Waynesburg.  It has been a long time coming so far this season, but finally Shepas and crew figured it out.  RUN THE BALL! and they did with Abels and Daniels with 2 TD's a piece and each had 100 yards rushing in a vcitory at home over GCC.

Westmin a solid game against a tough Adrian team from Michigan!  I picked Adrian and Westmin had me eat my words!  The young guns from WEstmin worked as a team and pull this game out in OT.  Special teams played a huge roll as WEstmins Freshmen kicker Romeo booted through two field goals, and three extra points in being perfect on the day.

Big Games next week

Tmore at Waynesburg:

It will be a treat to check this game out.  Two stud running backs which are dual threats against a solid up front defense  of TMORE.  How will Tmore respond after a tough fought loss against Thiel.  Carslisle and company will have their hands full all day in a tough place to play.

Were there any injuries from that game last weekend for Thiel or Tmore?

Thiel at Bethany:

Is Bethany ready to take their game to the next level and knock of the defending PAC champs on their own turf?  It could very well happen with the explosive offense that Bethany is providng right now and the lack there of at Thiel.  In fact I saw in the post game write up that Thiel had another QB Ault take some snaps.   I do not know if this is a sign to come, but you can tell Thiel was trying to put a pulse into their offense. 

Key Questions this week:

Will Thiel's offense get back on track this week against an improving Bisons Team?

Who will win the battle upfront in the Tmore vs Wayensburg game?


Key Point:

Special teams has already had an affect on two games this week and a few already in this early season.  Thiel had the blocked punt and the field goal in OT, and Westmin the game winner and the perfect day which preserved the victory.  With talent becoming more and more even with PAC teams it is evident, that  Whoever wins the special teams battle will have the advantage going down the stretch in Conference play.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 26, 2006, 12:40:23 PM
CC
Nice segway into this week's upcoming games
Let's start in Green Country with Bethany who have opened some eyes up so far this year on offense. But yet they have played not top notch competition and yet to have faced much of a defense. Their I can see Thiel taking over game and pressuring QB into some pick plays that could make game get out of control. They will try and also play smash mouth running to with Hess and Minton. Alot of this game will fall on Bethany QB getting ball in play maker's hands of Bethany skilled players.
Secondly let's move to Waynesburg/TMC.
First season win for Jackets gives some momentum for team that was on 0-3 skid but against good competition 2 of the 3 games. TMC has been in opportunity to win or lose all 3 of its first games. Being 2-1 still may give them a slight edge mentally. We know they will be hungry and also knowing losing 2nd PAC game will be  crucial for PAC play this year. On the other side will Waynesburg having a chance to go 2-0 into bye week to set big showdown up with Bethany on Homecoming day. Battle of trenches will be a deciding factor. O Line played better last week in giving scat backs some room to run. QB, Cobb  will need to make some big plays this week against a stingy defense on pass. Some good wideouts that are ready to make some big plays, TMC QB also will play big part this week too. This should be a good game to watch with some season pictures in perspective for  both teams as we get deeper into PAC play.
GC vs Westminny.............toss up here but slight edge will got GC with good running game and wing t. QB at Westminni had big game and if he gets protection could also swing the table.

WJ sits backs and waits it's trip to Thiel with bye week but wouldn't be suprised to see some Red making trip down 79 to scout TMC.Waynebsurg game for their upcoming games against them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 26, 2006, 03:42:57 PM
AC...

The Bison will play at home in Brooke County, WV but I agree that they haven't faced a team of this level. A competitve game will depend on which Bison team shows up Sat. The squad that played the 2nd half at OWU can compete with Thiel but if they get down early as they did at OWU, Thiel's defense won't let them back in the game. On defense, I hear a Bison top linebacker is out this week which doesn't bode well against Thiel's running game. Bethany will need the turnover edge and a couple big plays by their QBs to have a chance in the 4th quarter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 26, 2006, 04:08:58 PM
South Willy
Thanks for the reply....still putting  some good yards on offense does give you firepower to strike quickly with skilled players. Linebacker loss not good news when it comes down to stopping run game of Thiel where they will try and control clock, get first downs and move the sticks and also keep Bethany O on side line.
Playing on regular grass also could help too on the Bethany side. This should be an interesting battle too with turnover's possibly lurking in what could decide game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 27, 2006, 01:19:12 AM
Props to Grove City College, #4 in this survey of 50 campuses.

Click this hyperlink to the Wall Street Journal's,  opinionjournal.com (http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=110009000)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 27, 2006, 08:16:46 AM
South Willy and AC,

Linebacker loss is going to hurt Bethany in this game because Thiel will need to run the ball in order to open up the passing game.  This could lead to big play strikes down the field for Van Horn and LaScola if Bethany is forced to put another man up front in the box. 

I will say this as opposed to past years will Thiel was dominant on both sides of the ball as opposed to Bethany.  This year their offense seems to be a catalysts and in sync as opposed to Thiel so far this year.  Bethany is not only averaging more yards a game than Thiel, but also more points.  Thiel has made a living on defense and special teams this year.  If and if Thiel gets their offense going the final outcome should go in Thiel's favor, but if not it will be a close game.

Too bad Bethany doesn't have the PAC version of Christian Okeye with big ole Will Anderson!!!! 



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 27, 2006, 09:13:33 AM
CC....

Being new to D3 football with a freshman at BC, its really hard to look at stats and predict how teams will play. There seems to be such a tremendous span in talent levels in D3 from top to bottom. BC looked great against Hiram and for a half at OWU but was totally outplayed by an average Muskingum in the opener.  Thiel is down a little this year but would seem to be much to strong for a young BC squad.

BC does have a bunch of speed and some size at receiver with a senior QB so points can come in bunches if and only if the Oline can give him some time and open a hole for the occassional run. But is a Bison win actually possible...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 27, 2006, 09:36:44 AM
South Willy,

Completely Agree a Bison win could very well happen this year, but the competeiton that Thiel has played is playoff caliber, but their offense is not producing still.  Could be problems for Thiel as they go up against an explosive offense.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 27, 2006, 01:39:42 PM
Hey guys!!!

Yes a bison win is possible as any team can get beat at any time. However, I think the defense the Bison will see is something they have not seen yet this year and the defense Thiel's offense will see this week is probably going to be the weakest thus far. I am sure the Bison will be jacked up looking to make a statement against the defending PAC champs and Thiel does not play all that well at BC. I see a Thiel win but nothing like last years blowout win in Greenville.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 27, 2006, 10:36:37 PM
Pitt,

Good to see you back on here!  No predictions from the bull last week was upsetting!

I think we are all on the same page that an upset win could very well happen this weekend for Bethany. 

Here is quick question that I am sure Pat Coleman and the crew will answer for us, but with our conference increasing with teams.  When will the PAC have an automatic qualifier for the playoffs?  I believe you need atleast 7 teams and it should happen within the next year or two, but does anyone have any answers to when this will happen for sure? 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 27, 2006, 10:45:20 PM
In 2007. This is the second year of the two-year waiting period that is required when a conference adds a school to reach seven.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 27, 2006, 10:52:59 PM
Pat,

Thanks for the input i knew that question was answered last year, but I had already forgot the answer. 

With PAC play becoming more and more competitive do you believe that having an AQ from the PAC would help their chances of sending two teams to the big dance every year?

Or is the PAC teams just not on the same level of competition as some of their other elite conferences around the nation such as the OAC, Empire 8, ODAC, USAC, MIAC, NWC, NJAC, Wisconsin league, and maybe even the NCAC? (Just to name a few)

Like last year with Thiel and WJ both got in, but now the conference winner would get the bid and maybe the runner up would have a better shot at also receiving an invitation from the commitee?

What are your thoughts Pat and to anyone else???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 27, 2006, 11:17:37 PM
CC,

Long hours at work and practice along with long nights at the bar kept me from making predictions last week. You will certainly see predictions this week from Da Bull.

I think the AQ next year will put the PAC in a different group or something and I think it actually hurts us but I am not sure that is what I am recalling from last year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 28, 2006, 01:41:01 AM
Predictions: PAC Style!!!




Thiel at Bethany* - 1:30 p.m.

The improved Bison take on the struggling defending champs at home. I think this will be a great game. Bethany will be jacked up ready to make a statement to the PAC by knocking off the Tomcats who do not play all that well at Bethany and are still trying to get their offense on track. I think defense wins football games and Thiel has shown that this year as their defense was a huge part of their victories and keeping them in the other contests. The PAC's number one defense will be ready to roll and the Darkside will out match the emotion and intensity of the PAC's number one scoring offense. Turnovers will be the story and the Darkside will force enough to win this road contest.

Tomcats 24 Bison 14



Thomas More at Waynesburg* - 1:30 p.m.

TMC goes to Wiley Stadium to battle the Yellow Jackets. After the heart break loss to the Tomcats the Saints will look to bounce back. Waynesburg has the running game back on track and will look to attack the stingy TMC defense. Although Wiley Stadium is one of the toughest places to play in the PAC, so far it has not been. TMC struggles early but guts one out on the road.

TMC 21 Waynesburg 17



Westminster at Grove City* - 1:30 p.m.

The battle of these two colleges only a few miles apart will be an exciting one. Westminster is high off a double OT win and GCC is still looking for thier first win of the season. GCC will be fired up at home against the visiting Titans but I think the Titans passing game will be too much for the Wolverines. It seems that GCC can find the way to win and an emotional win last week for the Titans will have them riding high into conference action.

Westminster 21 GCC 14


Good Luck to all teams this week

Go Tomcats!!!!


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on September 28, 2006, 08:53:43 AM
Pitt, Nice predictions, let the swammy get in the picture too. This week is considered maybe"make or break week".
Starting in Bethany:
Will Thiel stay undefeated in PAC play or will they suffer defeat and make Conference a little egg scrambled with 1-1 record and Bethany goes to 1-0 heading in Waynesburg in 2 weeks for Homecoming battle with Jackets.
I see the Run game for Thiel being difference and pressure to QB at Bethany being difference of some picks
Final Thiel 21     
         Bethany 7
TMC at Waynebsurg
Good battle in Burg, TMC will be fired up to avoid going to 0-2 track in PAC play where Jackets will be looking to go 2-0 in PAC after 3 losses in first3 games. Coaching here could be difference, stingy defense for TMC against run could slow down the RB's at Waynesburg.....although the chance of either of them busting one on any given play is always in the picture. Last years game was penalty filled. I see the QB's on both teams maybe being the deciding factor's on what throw and what good catch and run could be the difference. Popson's field goal may be deciding factor and get place kicker closer to scoring record with a push from Abels at RB right behind.
Jackets 13
TMC  10

GC vs Westminny
Running game of GC will be diffeernce here, more steady run game and lesser pass game should be game plan in this one. Stopping QB at Westminny will be game plan for big Red.
Final GC 21
        WM  17


W&J  intersted players make trip to Bethany and watchs Thiel game for next week's battle or closer drive to Burg country.
Still thinking they are team to beat....which I believe are......but should not think the script is wrote for easy return to playoff's.
Good Luck in this weeks play. May all player's stay healthy and injury free.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cleveland connection on September 28, 2006, 03:01:16 PM
I've been away from the PAC for a little bit, could somebody fill me in on who Thiel's big time producers are on offense now that their four year lettermen qb, and wr have graduated?

Is Minton the whole show or are they balanced?

Thanks
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 28, 2006, 06:28:45 PM
Its that time of the week again for predicition and some good ones have been laid out.

Westminster 24 @ GCC-17
Westminster Finally showed some life on Offense last week and look like they might have a weapon at the Qb position but only time will tell. Franz is the key in this one as the Titans get away from power football and sling it all over the place on GCC.

TMC -10 @ Waynesburg 17

Upset special as the jackets unleash the One Two Combo of Abels and Daniels on the TMC defense. TMC offense does not impress me and the D proved it could be run on last week as Minton had success in the run game even on a muddy field.

And now the Game of the Week

Thiel-28 @ Bethany 10

Bethany gets a dose of reality as they are still the bottom feeders of the PAC although they are defenitly in better hands with this coaching staff compared to before. Minton runs for three scores on what will probably be a muddy field @ Bethany.

W&J is off but my guess is the players and coaching staff will be in attendance of the Thiel Bethany game with payback on their minds.

Next week is showdown Saturday in Greenville.

Good Luck to all
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: papabear93 on September 29, 2006, 08:43:32 AM
8 yards on 13 carries for Minton gets my attention too!  Hell of a day for Steve!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 29, 2006, 12:40:16 PM
Papa,

I would not be so down on Steve. Thiel has been mostly one dimension this year as thier passing attack took some hit with graduation and the new guys are not quite up to par yet this year. Another thing is that last week it was very sloppy and muddy and rainy I believe. The Tomcats also faced a good TMC defense that is very stingy. Put all those things together and the fact that every opponent is going to put 8 in the box to stop the running game because that is Thiel's strength. I expect a big game out of him this week as he had one of his best games two years ago at Bethany. I believe it may have been his break through game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 29, 2006, 04:32:53 PM
Pitt,

I think what Papa was talking about is reference to what Wes Mantooth said at 6:28pm Yesterday. 

Note:  Running onto and off of the field does NOT count for your rushing average. 

Papa,  I thought Carlisle's first name was Mark and NOT Steve...hmm.

..............................................................................................................................................

The Waynesburg/TMC game is my (take your pick) Hippie Lettuce Smoking or Kool-Aid drinking "Game of the week".....

The offense of TMC will be fine this week....remember everyone thought the offense was in trouble last year....esp after our QB went down....dare I say we are better on offense this year. 

The field conditions favor ANY offense playing on it....because they know where they are going....and the defense doesn't.  Its a footwork thing. 

TMC by 10.  Maybe then they'll earn some of your respect...even though they were picked 2nd to last for last year and finished 3rd. 

Wes,

next time you come to a TMC game....look me up.    I assume your not just reading stat pages and/or game storylines.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 29, 2006, 04:58:50 PM
I wouldn't say that Thomas More doesn't get respect, but they wont be considered in the top tier of the conference until they beat Thiel or W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 29, 2006, 05:02:34 PM
Agreed, but with as bad as Thiel has been this year.....do you think they would have credit for beating them last week....(which they should have)?? 


I'm saying no. . .
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 29, 2006, 05:11:25 PM
I think so.  On the other hand, I think people are going to be amazed how Thiel finishes out this year.  They haven't scheduled Oberlin's or Hiram's or Kenyon's for a reason.  The first three teams they played are just as good as any team they will play in the conference. 
Saying TMC should have won the game is false, nobody deserves to win a game with 107 yards of offense (not saying Thiel did a whole lot better) because that shows that Thiel's defense won the game for them and picked up the slack for the O.  When it came down to it, TMC couldnt step up to the challenge and stop Thiel on their final posession, and then come up with nothing in overtime.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 30, 2006, 12:28:21 PM
Old Timer and Saints Fan,

Great imput on both sides.

We know this so far from the 2006 season:

1.  Thiel's level of competition in their first 3 games was better than any team in the PAC. 

Tmore first combined opponents records are 0-6.
Thiel first three including NAIA Geneva is 5-3.

Big Differential to start.

2.  Thiel losing a playmaker 2005 second team all american Brandon Chambers and Thiel's all time passing leader Darrell Satterfield who was also a two time all pac pick is a big void to fill.  Which has contributed to the low output of offense and teams beign able to fill more men in the box upfront to stopping the powerful Thiel running game of Minton and Hess.  Also losing All american and Aztec Bowl selection Dave Hendrix (Offensive Tackle) to graduation.

3.  Blankenship and trial by committe are trying to fill the shoes left by Dsatt and company just hasn't clicked yet this year, but a part of their game which has continued to excel is the Defense which is well coached and led by a commitee of players.  Defense is still a strong point for THiel which it always has been since the new staff arrived.

4.  Special Teams has been sound for Thiel so far this year and kept them in games.  Koyl's kicking abilities combined with blocked punts by Hughes has been the key to opening up games that the offense has really been non existent.

5.  Tmore has the defense to take them into the playoffs for the last two year atleast.  What has always hindered them is their lack of offense they have provided also.  Now did Tmore deserve to win last weeks game?  That's debateable, but just like Old Timer said Tmore had 107 yards of total offense, and they certainly didn't strike fear into this weeks oppenents the Yellow Jackets on the offensive side of the ball.   

6.  Is Tmore ready to compete and deserve the respect of WJ and Thiel?  Yes they do deserve their respect, but until Tmore puts together 4 quarters of solid football in all 3 phases of the game they will not have any status qou to be a heavyweight in this conference this year. 

Is Thiel a bad team this year not at all, have they played to their full potential no, have they put 4 quarters of football together no,  Thiel hasn't been bad but they haven't been great either, and beating Tmore last week it showed Thiel still has the mentality that they are the elite in the conference which they still are.  Even with the way they have played this year.

Now if the Bisons beat Thiel today i will be eating my words..... Knock on wood!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 30, 2006, 12:32:39 PM
Regarding PapaBear93  remarks,

He was referencing Steve Minton i believe and i have a funny feeling he might be busting the chops of the Junior Running Back from Thiel.....

Just my assumptions though!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 30, 2006, 01:52:16 PM
Sounds like i struck a nerve with the Thomas More Faithful. Well i will tell you that i was mistaken in Mintons success at TMC and i admit that. At the sametime TMC lost the game and i still think Waynesburg on turf will run on TMC today and in a few days W&J will do the same. Their Defense is very good but i just dont think that TMC has got the full package to win the conference especially when you beat a non talented GCC team by one. I could eat my words once again so we will have to see.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 30, 2006, 02:15:21 PM
Mantooth,


Good Comments and i think it will be competitive game but ultimately the lack of offense and the sound running game for the Yellow Jackets will wear down the Stingy Defense of Tmore.  They should win at home even though Tmore is veyr quick on defense having two or more backs running at you will wear you down by the time your late in the 4th quarter. 

Thiel is up 23-0 in the second quarter...Helping that score is two Bethany Turnovers early in the game, but not much offense for them as of now...But Bethany is driving now..

Westmin is also up 7-0 at Thorn Field in GCC...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 30, 2006, 03:11:59 PM
30-7  Tomcats

Tomcats capped off by a Steve Minton dash into the endzone...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 30, 2006, 10:17:13 PM
No nerve struck here....don't worry.  You'll KNOW when you do.  Ask Pat Coleman about that.

I agree that TMC has a long way to go to compete with W&J.  They are the benchmark of the PAC.  The PAC has had two teams in recent memory win the league title....one year was Thiel....and they won't defend their title this year. 

The Saints offense needs to step up a little, but they will with experience.  They are VERY young on offense. 

We are going to have to agree to disagree Oldtimer.  I was at the game and it was a slug fest.  The fact is the defenses for both teams was very good and it was played in sloppy conditions.  TMC deserved to win every bit as much as Thiel did... in FACT, Thiel tied the game on a 4th down pass VERY late in the 4th quarter.  THAT play deflated the Saints and it wasn't to be.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 30, 2006, 10:19:30 PM
and Wes...props on being correct on the game today between TMC and Waynesburg.  Not sure if they ran all over TMC though, and it sounds like the Saints gift wrapped two TD's by fumbling inside their own 25 and 8 yard lines today.  One thing....TMore did NOT run the ball well today and put it on the ground.  That equalled a loss.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 30, 2006, 11:54:09 PM
Congrats to Thiel, Waynesburg, and Grove City on their PAC victories today!!!

Looks like the show down is set up in Greenville next week that could ultimatly decide the fate of the PAC championship. I expect a great game and a fired up Tomcat crowd!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: TCLawMan93 on October 01, 2006, 12:01:46 AM
whats up guys, I am new to the whole post patterns thing.  I wanna start off by letting everyone know out there i am a true thiel tomcat and will always be till i die.  i am one of the orginal members of the thiel darkside defense and if you ask me one of the best defenses in the PAC in the past years.
I joined up for a few reasons one being i see a few of my boys are on here like Mr. Cartel and my fellow drinkin buddy Da Bull.  anyways the main reason i wanted to post is regarding the comments that PappaBear93 made about steve minton.  first let me start off by saying i am the orginal bear that wore the number 93 and as for his insults on steve not having a good game last week it sounds like to me that the pappa bear must have bee ran over a time or two by steve or maybe he got knocked around a lil bit by steves older brother a few years back which ever the case maybe i think my man needs to check out steves past stats and not jump to any conclusions on one game.  o and by the way when teams stack 8 or 9 guys in the box im pretty sure that might have an impact on steves numbers but to me thats more respect than stats.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 01, 2006, 10:33:56 AM
LawMan,


Great Point about stackin 8 or 9 in the box.  It shows respect for the Thiel Oline and also what Steve has the capabilities to do, and Bethany found that out real quick they could not stack 8 or 9 all the time with LaScola back the kid had a monster day and Van Horn continued to be a solid possesion reciever also.  With the return of LaScola it gives Thiel the ability to open the Field up Vertically and allow for Minton and Hess to find more open running room.  THe showdown in Greenville is set.

Mantooth,

Solid choice with the victory for Shepas and the crew!  I agree with SaintsFan its hard to win when you fumble twice inside your own 20, but the Yellow Jackets still had to cash in on those opportunities and they did.  Those mental miscues have to stop in order for Tmore or any team to take the next step in winning a PAC title.

Can we say that Shepas is on the verge of somethign special if Waynesburg can win out here and challenges for the PAC championship?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2006, 03:34:14 PM
lawman,

By all means welcome to D3 post patterns.  Its a great way to communicate your enthusiasm for Thiel and D3 football.  While welcoming you, I would also ask you to look at ALL the posts this week.  Papa wasn't dissing Minton, he was responding to someone's assessment that Minton ran all over a defense, when in fact the stats said otherwise....nothing more, nothing less. 

Before you start flapping about who the real 93 is and who ran over who....just remember the person behind the screenname could be a no name former walk on or someone who revolutionized his position on defense.  At no point did Papa ask who the original 93 was....but I guess we now have an idea. 

Congrats to Thiel on picking up their program from where it was....to where it is.  I think its a great story, but like any great team....and I think the Tomcats are still alive in the PAC obviously and TMC is probably not with yesterday's loss. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2006, 03:36:48 PM
Cleveland,

I agree most times with your assessment but this time the two drives that resulted from the fumbles could have been ran by a 9th grade offensive unit.

Couple the sudden change in possession with the emotion of it and those drives were pretty easy for the offense.  Yesterday it was the difference between winning and losing.

Who Dey?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 01, 2006, 05:42:25 PM
Saintsfan,

Why are you so confident that Thiel will not defend their title?  Just a question.  It seems to me they have played much better competition than W&J so far.  It also seems their offense is clicking now...doesnt seem like your even giving them a chance next week?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 01, 2006, 06:06:18 PM
Saints Fan,

I got a good laugh out of the 9th grade offensive unit line from your previous quote. 

You still have to execute and do it against a tough Tmore defensive unit.  Turning the ball over in your own redzone should merit atleast 3 points, but against a tough Defense with the likes of Carslisle and West, if they hold Thiel to 3 points on those redzone attempts Tmore is victrorious.  Whether its a 9th grade team on offense or not Thiel had to get through the best defense in the PAC to help send the game into overtime.

That's all part of the game with preparation and being mentally focused.  I know personally Thiel's staff is rarely outcoached and are the players not mentally focused. 

Who Deys are in a tough matchup right now and i need Chad Johnson to get me some fantasy points in my leagues!



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 01, 2006, 06:12:11 PM
Judgement week started a few weeks ago with PAC play but now we are starting to get into the thick of the season.  Both sides will be pumped and Thiel pulled the upset on WJ's homecoming last year, and WJ would love to return the favor in 06. 

Whoever can run the ball efficiently and get 4 yards on first down will win the game.

WJ has done a solid job running the ball with Mendle and their whole Oline still intact from last year. 

Thiel's stronghold as always been on the O and D lines, and they did a much better job saturday opening up holes for Minton and Hess to get through.

Who will run the ball efficiently on saturday?  WJ or Thiel???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 01, 2006, 06:52:56 PM
CC
To shed some light on next wek's matchup in Greeville will be pay back time for lasst years WJ loss. Thiel's fortunate enough to win last week in TMC which got beat yesetrday in Waynesburg where the score should of been 20-25 loss. Referee's foloowed them up from Kentucky on so so many bad calls it was a shame they call themselves referee's. On side kick and no call fumble thac coulod of made the game a laugher. Ref's were doing all they could to try and hand game to TMC. If anyone would r4eview the calls made those guys would never ref again as a 4 ref's looked at each in middle of field at end of game in astonishment.
TMC only hopes for season in that they can beat WJ which likes to esablish run game. 1-2 in conference will not get you any chance, with losses to Thiel and Waynesbrg who are leading conf at this point in time. .
On a another note, if Geneva doesn't fumble near goal line and TMC defesne could of held  Thiel from late scores they could really be winless???..that is why WJ will knock thef off by 14 points.
Cinderella year of last ehnds this Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on October 01, 2006, 08:05:25 PM
Swallow passes W&J by Thiel:  31 to 10.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 01, 2006, 08:12:56 PM
It will be a good game, but I think some W&J faithful are a little salty after last years loss and are predicting a ridiculous margin of victory for the Presidents.

Prediction:

Thiel runs for 200 and passes for 150.  The Presidents see a talented O-line and D-line that they havent seen since last years game against Thiel.  Swallow throws 3 picks and gets pressured/ hurried all game.  Run game non-existent for W&J.

Outcome.......... Thiel 21  W&J 10
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on October 01, 2006, 08:40:01 PM
Oldtimer may be right and W&J's run game stalls, but he is underestimating the passing of Swallow as he gets more experience. In any event if Swallow gets in trouble, Church comes in as qb, the running game opens up and W&J still wins by 10 points with a more balanced attack.
Title: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 01, 2006, 09:10:05 PM
Previous Question: Who will knock off W&J this season?

Bethany (2-1, 32.0 ppg) - 1 (5.3%)
Grove City (0-2, 3 total PR yards) - 1 (5.3%)
Thiel (1-2, 9.0 ppg) - 5 (26.3%)
Thomas More (2-0, won by a total of 3 pts) - 5 (26.3%)
Waynesburg (0-3, given up 65 second-half pts) - 0 (0%)
Westminster (0-2, eight turnovers committed) - 0 (0%)
No one - 7 (36.8%)
   
Total Voters: 19
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 02, 2006, 02:21:10 AM
Ahh the friendly rivalry of Thiel and W&J. Thiel has played a little better competition but whether better i do not know. First of all ill give Thiel Albion. But Allegheny from accounts handled Thiel in a scrimmage yes i know a scrimmage but im willing to put AC in the top two or three of a tougher conference in the NCAC. Also Salisbury is a very talented team that is better than any team Thiel has played to this point even with there 2-2 record. Thiel's offense is now explosive after the impressive walloping of Bethany. Lets relax a little bit after one good showing on offense. W&J on the Oline has the strength over the D line with two all americans. Now whether the Presidents D line is stronger than the Thiel O line is a question and will be the deciding factor for the game. Pay back is on the line, we shall see in 6 days lady's and Gentlemen
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2006, 05:21:23 AM
AC,

Would have should have could have that all I got to say

If I would have know the numbers to the powerball two weeks ago  I would be a millionaire just like if Geneva did not fumble and would have scored. Give me a break. No need for the saltyness we all know its going to be a good game in Greenville this weekend even though W&J will be the favorite.

Lawman,

I agree I think someone was taking a shot a Steve. We might be wrong but hey I call them as I see them and when I am wrong I will admit it.


I think this week's matchup will come down to the simple facts of every game pretty much. That being turnovers and running the ball. Who ever runs the ball effectivly and wins the turnover will win the game. When two good teams play that is normally the story. If it was a good team vs an average or below average team then the better team can sometimes overcome these mistakes. Unfortunatly, whoever makes the most mistakes this week will be hoping that the other team loses in the following weeks to give them a shot at the PAC crown!!!


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2006, 05:30:22 AM
Saintsfan,

You need to realize that TMC probably is not as good as you originally thought. Yes they should have not lost to Thiel but they did. They are probably better then WC in some peoples eyes but they lost. Unless they start walking the walk nobody is going to respect their talk especially you talking about how they are a top tier team in the PAC. Until they prove it aka winning games against upper tier teams in the PAC they will get the respect they deserve. Just like Thiel for instance. They stunk for years and were the easy homecoming victory. They started to play with teams and had teams on the ropes but still could not win. Until they WON games noone gave them respect even though they were improving. W&J has been the elite of the PAC for years and years. They earned and deserved it by winning games. Yes I know they only won the title the once out of the past three years but they were runners up the other two years. They will get that respect until they show otherwise.


Bottom Line is win games in the PAC and you will get the respect. Quit the would have should have stuff and win games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2006, 05:43:04 AM
WES,

We know your a W&J man. I am not agreeing with you on the harder schedule. There is no doubt Thiel had one of the toughest first 5 games to begin a season in D3 period. 4 out of 5 on the road, a NAIA top team with scholarship guys, and Albion and Alfred which are upper level D3 teams. I do agree W&J had no cake walk as well but I get the feeling you think that W&J is the far and above the best team in the PAC. Sources say AC handled Thiel but I also hear that they did not fair to well on offense until Thiel's starters were out. That is hear say and who really cares its a scrimmage. Nonetheless, I agree W&J is the favorite to win the conference no doubt but I think you need to respect the fact that they are not a clear cut winner like years past. You know they did not win it last year or two years ago. The PAC is getting better at the top and games have shown that. I think anyone expecting a big blowout game in Greenville is out of their mind. It will be a great game between two good football teams. If Thiel wins I think it will be an upset but nothing to write home about as they have proven the past few years that they are not the doormat of the PAC and are the defending champs that are not going to go down without a fight.

I look forward to a great time and game in Greenville as Da Bull will be taking this one in first hand this weekend!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2006, 05:45:21 AM
Quote from: denfd on October 01, 2006, 08:40:01 PM
Oldtimer may be right and W&J's run game stalls, but he is underestimating the passing of Swallow as he gets more experience. In any event if Swallow gets in trouble, Church comes in as qb, the running game opens up and W&J still wins by 10 points with a more balanced attack.

Your out of your mind. You are saying no matter what even if a second team qb comes in that W&J will roll. You will see a great game this Saturday and if Thiel gets to Swallows and Church has to come in W&J will be in trouble. The same goes for Thiel.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on October 02, 2006, 06:29:43 AM
Swallow is a very good passer. With more experience, he could be a great passer. Church is a terrific qb, who would give W&J another running dimension if he's on. He could set the stage for a great game by Mendal. Church would start for most teams in the PAC. But back to Swallow, if he is on target W&J will pull away in the second half and and beat Thiel handily. If not, the game will go down to the wire with Thiel having its chances. It will be a great game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2006, 09:07:02 AM
Pitt,

There's no "would've and should've" coming from here.....I know the Saints aren't as good as they expected to be.  Thats the breaks.  I am not going to apologize for rooting on my alma mater.

I never said they were a top tier team in the PAC.....I said they aspire to be, and they finished last year above where EVERYONE outside of KY thought they would be.  Thats a starting block.   Its going to be a fight for them to even equal where they finished last season.  Every game this year will be a battle (best case scenario). 

The other thing is that I've NEVER called out the Presidents.  In fact if you review my post, I said that it appears the Presidents are going to re-claim their conference crown this season.  I also feel that Thiel has played a tough schedule but to call it the toughest in D3 to this point is taking it over the edge.  Albion, though they had a good season last year, is an average team this year and plays in a very average conference.  Alfred has gotten alot of hype this season and they will finish 3rd in the E8....

Thiel and W&J will settle this out on Saturday....the only question here is at 2-0 in the PAC, is Waynesburg for real?  Or are they the team that lost to 1-4 Shenandoah at home? 

Who is the 3rd place team in the PAC this season?  EVERY other team besides W&J seem to have question marks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2006, 12:03:06 PM
Saints,

Your right you are allowed to pull for your alma mater there is no doubt that every person in America does that. I never said Thiel had the harderst I said they had one of the hardest because they started off with 4 out of 5 on the road against good teams.

I think you are on target when you say that everyone is wondering if Waynesburg is the sleeper in the PAC this year. I know Waynesburg is always tough, but they are inconsistant. I look forward to seeing them this year. They have a lot of skill and may be the best 1-4 team out there. Only time will tell. Sorry If I got on your case about the would've should've thing I obviously misunderstood you. I apologize.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 02, 2006, 12:29:32 PM
Pitt/Saints Fan
Nothing wrong with alma mater rooting for sure, PAC this year very competitive, evidence as already been showed on field, TMC edging Grove City21-20 on mixed extra point, the same this past against Westminny with GC getting win 21-20. Thiel edging TMC out on two late score in 4th quarter to steal win (17-14)in Kentucky and then last week coming to Waynesburg and having some costly early  turnovers which were capitalized on for scores.  TMC has really showed that they can be player's since entering league last year.
Waynesburg sneakingly not a 2-3 team but will get more into PAC play next week against Bethany. The Shenandoah nightmare has past, all put to rest.... Then the Jackets must  head up to Thiel against what ????(a beaten team against WJ or a victorius team against WJ), this weekend will provide the answer to that but will they have any steam to go down to WJ the following week. Now, thats a big time task to have that thrown on your plate. Jackets will need big rest up in off week and get team healthier and see how the cards fall.
Things getting interesting.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 02, 2006, 12:42:14 PM
Saints Fan and Pitt,

Good points were taken from both sides and I think a little bit of misunderstanding from one another.  Regardless both of you are fans of the game and thats what matters here.

I would rather see us on here chatting up the PAC than doing nothing, and plus this gives us all somethign to check on while we are enjoying lunch at work as I am right now.

I will also be in attendence for the WJ vs Thiel game and will be holding off on my prognosis for the game till friday. 

Whoever can establish the run will win the game.  Thiel held Bethany to just a yard on 21 attempts I believe, but does that really show us how good Thiel's defense is, or how overhyped the Bisons were going into the game? 

Don't get me wrong Bethany looks much better than in past years and the coaching staff seems to have everyone on the same page, and i absolutely love the talent at WR there with Parker and the young big body frame of 6'3 Cruze. 

As Denfd said earlier the X factor could very well be Swallow and if he can get his passing going to their WR's WJ will have the ability to run the ball because Thiel can not stuff the box with 8 or 9 guys if WJ is throwing all over them.  Swallow needs to bring his A game and if the run is working effectively his B game will also be good enough. 



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 02, 2006, 12:58:41 PM
CC

Has WJ been tested since game against Salisbury, Oberlin and Hanover???
Will they be ready agaistt a stingier quicker defense, the run game there ste up the pass with WJ, not like the past. This very weel could be stale mate but someone got's to take control of mistakes. Calls also will be vital in who gets Win.......Homecoming crowd amy also have a little magin, defending the throne always adds a little more excitement to an alreadyb thought about game when schedule came in out April/May.

Good Luck to both teams.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 02, 2006, 02:20:32 PM
AC to answer your question. Yes W&J has been tested against Allegheny. Expect a game similar to that one with a lower scoring final score. Not many people are familiar with Hanover in conference except TMore but they are perenially a very good football team and have been to the playoffs in the last few years. Maybe not on that level this year but they did lose by one to Tmore  who is a good football team. We will have to see this weekend. I am pretty Jacked up to see the game and i am sure there will be some war of words all week and during the game as this has turned into a fun rivalry.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 02, 2006, 02:50:23 PM
It has turned into a fun rivalry because of the competitive games the past few years. (minus 2004 it got out of reach early for Thiel)  Even when Thiel was a 3-7 team in 2002 and 2003, they gave the Presidents a run for their money.  I believe 21-17 with W &J coming back for the win in 2002 and 16-10 in 2003 with Thiel coming back late and almost scoring the winning touchdown.  These competitive games make it fun to watch the 2 teams play.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 02, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
WES and OT
Thanks fior the reply...didn't know much of Allegheny team talent wise but I see they are doing OK this year. got to see TMC last week in the Burg  which even played to high intensity level to scrap with Jackets. If they could establish and running game and their QB can make some clutch plays down the road you never know. Thier D is stingy and could put some bumps on some key player's for WJ when they get to that point  on schedule but that game is in Cameron stadium where things always are tough.
Thiel's/WJ game means a whole lot to where the PAC Champiosnhip will end up this year but their could be someone in the winsg waiting for them.
This is critical match-up and should be great game with high intensity level and before the weeks is over maybe one this guy will attend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2006, 05:02:17 PM
Agreed....Hanover is usually the HCAC Champ and the representative in the Playoffs.  They have a good program, but they are young.  Rumors are abound that a change in admissions policy has set the program back by raising standards of recruiting.  At any point, W&J no doubt scheduled that game long ago and was thinking it would be a great test. 


The Oberlin game is only one that wasn't going to be a test (from the moment they scheduled it).  I look forward to this weekend's game.....if someone has a plane, send it down for me.  I live 30 seconds away from Lunken Airport in Cincy's East End. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fb4life1 on October 02, 2006, 06:35:47 PM
Quote from: AC24#724 on October 02, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
WES and OT
Thanks fior the reply...didn't know much of Allegheny team talent wise but I see they are doing OK this year. got to see TMC last week in the Burg  which even played to high intensity level to scrap with Jackets. If they could establish and running game and their QB can make some clutch plays down the road you never know. Thier D is stingy and could put some bumps on some key player's for WJ when they get to that point  on schedule but that game is in Cameron stadium where things always are tough.
Thiel's/WJ game means a whole lot to where the PAC Champiosnhip will end up this year but their could be someone in the winsg waiting for them.
This is critical match-up and should be great game with high intensity level and before the weeks is over maybe one this guy will attend.
Quote from: AC24#724 on October 02, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
WES and OT
Thanks fior the reply...didn't know much of Allegheny team talent wise but I see they are doing OK this year. got to see TMC last week in the Burg  which even played to high intensity level to scrap with Jackets. If they could establish and running game and their QB can make some clutch plays down the road you never know. Thier D is stingy and could put some bumps on some key player's for WJ when they get to that point  on schedule but that game is in Cameron stadium where things always are tough.
Thiel's/WJ game means a whole lot to where the PAC Champiosnhip will end up this year but their could be someone in the winsg waiting for them.
This is critical match-up and should be great game with high intensity level and before the weeks is over maybe one this guy will attend.


AC24 your mastery of the English language is impressive!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Hi all, I am new to the boards but I have been following D3 football in Western PA for many years.  Great to see all of the discussion about the W&J and Thiel game.  It is also great that there are now meaningful games in the PAC and it is not a one team show.

Regarding Allegheny's talent.  The gators are an average team.  They have a pretty good offense that has good skill at the QB and RB spots.  However, their Defense is rather lacking as is evident by W&J rushing for almost 300 yards.

As for the Saturday's big game, I will make my prediction later in the week but for now I will say that I don't like Thiel's chances.  I really believe that W&J will be able to run the ball up and down the field on Thiel's defense.  Sure they may be quick but they are tiny up front and W&J has great size, talent and experience on the OL.  If W&J plays to their strengths, which right now is their run game, they will have their way. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2006, 07:37:21 PM
Guys,

Love the chatter about the PAC. Seems like we all think this week is going to be a good game. We also all think that Waynesburg could be a surprise in the PAC even though they face the tough part of thier schedule. TMC also could be a spoiler or get them back in the race with a win over W&J. I know I am already looking forward to Saturday!!! Who all making the trip to Greenville this Saturday I know I will be heading up after my JV game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 02, 2006, 09:16:30 PM
fb4life
Thanks for the kudos on the spelling, wonder what you could do in the dark while trying to type. Funny, first I heard from you this year, must of got done with cheer leading competition. Name the sport...., run,throw ,jump, kick or shoot.
But then again, you probably haven't put a jock on in your career. That would be  for sure,  you even said you followed football, didn't play??
Getting back to football!
Bragging rights in Greenville, Homecoming weekend, Sunny afternoon and PAC Conference lead up for grabs. When this game was scheduled back when they must of know big meaning was in store.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fb4life1 on October 02, 2006, 09:29:33 PM
Quote from: AC24#724 on October 02, 2006, 09:16:30 PM
fb4life
Thanks for the kudos on the spelling, wonder what you could do in the dark while trying to type. Funny, first I heard from you this year, must of got done with cheer leading competition. Name the sport...., run,throw ,jump, kick or shoot.
But then again, you probably haven't put a jock on in your career. That would be  for sure,  you even said you followed football, didn't play??
Getting back to football!
Bragging rights in Greenville, Homecoming weekend, Sunny afternoon and PAC Conference lead up for grabs. When this game was scheduled back when they must of know big meaning was in store.


Easy AC24 I was just taking a jab.  It is kind of hard to follow your posts and spelling is the least of your problems.  And yes cheerleading is one word.  But lets get back to football.  I agree with many of your assessments, most of them are right on.  The following days leading up to Saturday should be interesting. 

PittTBCW you seem to know a lot about Thiel.  Do you think Thiel's D has a chance to stop the run?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Southfan on October 02, 2006, 10:37:35 PM
New to the board but been watching the PAC for years.  Saturday will not be close.  WJ will beat Thiel by more than 2 TD's.  Thiel could be lucky if they score once.  Thiel is not as powerful of an offense as last year.  Last year they had a balanced and effective offense attack with rushing and passing.  This year Minton is not putting up the numbers like last year.  They have not able to move the ball through the air consistently.  I don't know what happen the first week for WJ but they look pretty unstoppable now. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 03, 2006, 07:57:48 AM
Southfan and fb4life1 and All
Good to see some new guys on the Post patterns and like to hear everyone's insight to this big game as it develops and other games  in the next few weeks for this week with WJ and Thiel sets tone for the following weeks games and season. (Thiel vs Grove City at GC next week)
If Thiel should be victorius they will need to shut run game down of WJ to an "average day" but hopingly won't have to stack the box to do so, and keep QB at WJ to below par day with a good receiving team of player's that can  make something happen after the catch.
For Thiel, they will need to establish run game with not quite the same offensive line it had last year, but 2 back running game can keep some fresh legs in the game but lacking big play from QB and wideout like they did last year could be the difference. . That was big makeup of Thiel team last year and how quick points got on the board in a hurry.  But then again look what Salisbury did on the ground to WJ. Ran threw and around them.

However things shake out in this game, the Waynesburg team lies in the background of this key matchup as they host Bethany next week after Bye week this week. That game, also proves pivotal for if they would knock of Bethany and then head to Thiel(2 weeks) for possibly first place at stake and then to WJ for also another deciding game for PAC Championship depending on how things pan out this weekend. Playing on the road will be against the Jackets in both games but ya still gotta put the helmet on and play the game. If run game gets going at Waynesburg like it can but has been below average to date and RB can be turned loose which has not quite happened yet this year and the QB can gain some more confidence in his game and their wideouts get the opportunity to make big catches fed off run game's success things can be interesting in the Burg.
Defense really starting to play alot better as a unit. Bethany would be first objective for Waynesburg and cannot look ahead.
Betcha the Brats and the Beers will be a menu item in Greenville this weekend.  Close to making a prediction, but swammy needs a little more time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 03, 2006, 08:26:09 AM
If Thiel wins Saturday, there will be NO PAC team in the D-III playoffs.  None.

W&J's loss would be their 2nd, too many to make it.
Thiel already has 2 (Alfred & Albion) and needed ot to beat Thomas More.
Thomas More already has 2 (Thiel & Waynesburg) and struggled to beat Grove City and Hanover.
And Bethany (am I really talking about Bethany in terms of post-season?) lost to Muskingum and by 6 touchdowns to Thiel.

Waynesburg, Grove City and Westminster already have 3 losses and aren't going.

Saturday's game really is bigger than W&J at Thiel.  It is whether the League can keep alive hopes for a Pool B berth.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2006, 08:27:33 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 03, 2006, 08:26:09 AM
If Thiel wins Saturday, there will be NO PAC team in the D-III playoffs.  None.

W&J's loss would be their 2nd, too many to make it.
Thiel already has 2 (Alfred & Albion) and needed ot to beat Thomas More.
Thomas More already has 2 (Thiel & Waynesburg) and struggled to beat Grove City and Hanover.
And Bethany (am I really talking about Bethany in terms of post-season?) lost to Muskingum and by 6 touchdowns to Thiel.

Waynesburg, Grove City and Westminster already have 3 losses and aren't going.

Saturday's game really is bigger than W&J at Thiel.  It is whether the League can keep alive hopes for a Pool B berth.

Good morning, Bob!  I appreciate your thoughts on Pool B.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 03, 2006, 09:02:03 AM
So your saying if Thiel wins Saturday you not giving them a chance to win out?  Or are you saying that an 8-2 Thiel team doesnt make the playoffs? Or both..... I can recall in 2004 Thiel was 7-2 going into the final game of the year against Buff State....as it turned out if they would have won they would have made the playoffs at 8-2....and they barely missed at 7-3.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 03, 2006, 09:48:19 AM
Bob, OT
Interesting points and very true possibility when you look at all the out of conference losses, WJ to Salisbury, Thiel to Albion and Alfred and Waynesburg losses to Wesley, Wooster thing sure don't look good
but to put other teams in Pool B that don't win their Conference and snub PAC totally would be not good for a Conference that has stacked up teams over the last few years to largen the Conference. Stes real bad taste their to me.

If this is so the Case.................Bragging rights just might mean a PAC Title and that be it.......with that WJ will suely try with their Coach philosophy to make score a lopsided affair this weekend.... so they can get in guaranteed, but loss could be devastating
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on October 03, 2006, 10:39:33 AM
If W&J wins big--20 points or so--they will probably be ranked among the top 25 D3 teams again, depending on upsets . A close game will not do it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2006, 12:41:51 PM
I agree with Bob here guys.....Thiels playoffs have already started.  Another loss and there's no way they'll get in with two losses.  There are too many other teams that will have lost less.  It just shows you how amazing it was for the PAC to have two in the playoffs last season.  Thats a great measure of respect....but it was last season. 

With who the Tomcats have lost to this year so far.....the committee won't have a good taste in their mouth at the end of the season with 3 losses (2 being in Region losses).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 03, 2006, 12:56:31 PM
So you are saying there is no way they will get in with three losses...I totally agree with that.  What about 2 losses?? Its possible Thiel beats W&J and both teams go 8-2?  Still possible nobody makes the playoffs?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2006, 01:05:32 PM
FB4Life,

     Yes I think Thiel's defense can shut down W&J's running game. They have a really good scheme and are one of the top defenses in the nation at stopping the run. If they are able to stop the run they will have more success at stopping the pass. If W&J is able to run and pass it could spell a long day for the Tomcats on their homecoming. One thing is for sure, the Tomcats will be jacked up for this game and the defense will have an excellent gameplan to shut down the Presidents. Thiel's offense may have finally found their groove. I think they will look to run the ball and control the game. If they are able to run they will be in a good position to win this football game.


Playoff talk:

I think Bob could be right. If Thiel wins Saturday and then wins out and both teams at 8-2 neither will get in. If W&J wins and finishes the season with only one loss they will get in. As mentioned in a previous post the Tomcats playoffs begin this week.

Anyone making the trip to Greenville???

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2006, 01:16:57 PM
Pitt, Bob, AC, OT, and the rest,

I will second or third that opinion that even a Thiel victory does not gurantee them an opportunity to play in the postseason.  A victory in region and an away game at that will help WJ crack the top 25 and most likely elevate them if they win out to the postseason. 

I am so mixed on this game on trying to analyze what will happen I really can't come up with a solid decision.  There are so many factors:

1.Will Swallow be on his game and the same page with his recievers?
2. Will Thiels Defense show up?
3.  Will WJ's oline continue to dominate?
4.  Whose special teams is going to make the most impact on the game?
5.  Which Coaching staff will put together the better gameplan for Saturday and have their kids prepared to play?
6.  Will Mendle be able to dominate?
7. Does the dual threat of Minton and Hess wear down the WJ defense at the end of the game?
8.  LaScola the X factor for Thiel, Having him back will he have the ability to Vertically open the field up like they did against bethany? 

And Bob its great to see you back on here I don't believe i have seen any posts out of you this season in the PAC forum.  I Could very well be wrong but you always have solid insight on the Presidents, PAC, and on the nation.

Swammy,  My predictions will also be on hold for two more days.....

Go BUCKS!!!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 03, 2006, 01:21:55 PM
To All...

As a newcomer, it's great to read all the comments and opinions concerning PAC football. Obviously, a Thiel/W & J game gets the responses cranked up on the site. Should be a great game and I look for Thiel to pull out a close game.
Flying up from Fla. for the Bethany homecoming weekend so I just hope the weather is better than last week and the game is competitive.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 03, 2006, 03:42:47 PM
South Willy,
Early prognosis on weather for game day at Bethany is 65 Sunny. Great field setting for homecoming and tailgating having been there twice in 4 years viewing Waynesburg games.

CC
Alot of variables you made for game day Saturday which will sure tell the story but the one every team always fears......................Turnover's and capitalizing on the mistakes. Dry turf also should make for quick field where WJ may have slight edge with quicker skilled players. Should be a battle.
TO ALL
What about and undefeated Wayneburg team in PAC play providing they can step up to plate and knock off Thiel, WJ and run the table?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2006, 03:54:27 PM
AC,

Turnovers are huge and we can't forget about that.

About WJ being quicker than Thiel I have no proof to back up my beliefs, but under Liepheimer Thiel has always been outsized but always quicker than their foes.  The only team that was quicker than Thiel last year was Bridgewater and they beat us towards the end with the help of turnovers, but Bridgewater was the better team. 

WJ has always had good size and speed, but Thiel has had just an edge with speed over the last few years.  Please do not get me wrong WJ has some of the best athletes all around, but speed goes to Thiel size would go to WJ.

Can Waynesburg literally run through the PAC and earn the right to be called a champion? 
Fact, they have a defense that is starting to come together as a group, and they are getting better every game. 
Their run game has always been there it was just a matter of time until they finally put it together and Shepas installed Abels into the lineup.  I would also say yes they have a 2-0 winning streak, but it has been by only a few points.  If any only if Abels and Daniels run for over a 100 yards a piece they have the opportunity to win out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2006, 03:56:41 PM
Pitt,

What time are you getting into Greenville?

FB4life,

I will be at the WJ vs Thiel game but what time is still uknown best bet get their asap to claim your territory!




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 03, 2006, 04:26:57 PM
CC
what happened to the Douglas CB from Thiel for this year? I thought he was going to be senior this year?
I would put Waynesburg up there with speed from last year with Hawkins,Abels, Daniels  and Hunter
I still think with WJ wideouts that they are quicker than Thiel DB's. Mendel doesn have big time speed but has the vision which makes him good runner.
Not quite sure if Wayneburg can run through PAC for sure, that is big big challenge but they may be ready for it. Yes, both backs need big games but if any replay of last year of both game takes place it can be interesting. Against Thiel, Abels had over 100 yards in first quarter alone before getting legs cramps and Daniels played well and got more playing time against WJ. Getting them both rolling can keep other offensive  teams off the field but things would really need to happen also about staying healthy playing both teams back to back. Without Good QB play action passing things can get stuffed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2006, 05:07:45 PM
True AC I would agree with your insight...

Also Waynesburg is really hurting in the passing game without the big man Jeff Dumm at QB.  The schools all time passing leader.  With Dumm's arm he helped open the running lanes for Abels which now has allowed him to become the all time leading rusher in Waynesburg history.  He definelty needed to have the talent, work ethic, and Oline in front of him but credit Mr. Dumm and his receiving corps. (Hawkins and the other Tall receiver who broke the receptions record the year before.)

You are exactly right about the passing game. 

Douglass is a great question and to be honest with you right now I coudln't tell you.  I believed he was coming back and I know he was only a junior last year.  The kid had 4.4 speed and was a beast on Thiels Track team.  Undersized yes, but he had the mentality that nobody was better than him and he was starting to become a solid peace to the Thiel Secondary with Steve Boyles.  What happened to him?  I do not know!

Pitt or OT might be able to fill us in on where he is currently whether he transfered back home to Maryland or maybe he is focusing on track. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 03, 2006, 05:40:45 PM
AC24...

Thanks for the weather forcast which would give Bison a chance to throw all day with a dry pigskin. With two starting linebackers back I hope the D will show up this week. It would be good for the program to get its first PAC win in 3+ years.

Waynesburg winning out???? by stats, weakest total offense in the PAC vs #1 total & scoring defense at Thiel!!!! Then follow that up at W& J. Ouch. Although your offensive stats should get significantly better as you have BC first I believe.  But it looks like you never know in D3 football, except for MU.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 03, 2006, 08:47:58 PM
I beleive W&J is going to have success in running the ball on Thiel this weekend. Yes Thiel is undersized and quick and for that reason W&J will run on them. Two years ago that was the game plan for the Thiel game to pound it at their undersized front and it worked for 250 plus yards and Edwards only threw 15 times. Last year Sirianni wanted the ball in the hands of his 5 good wideouts that he had so he threw the ball 52 times and W&J still moved the ball last year and scored a lot of points. When they did run the ball in that game they had success but got away from it. When you throw the ball that many times you are bound to turn it over and that won Thiel the game. This year i look for W&J to control the clock with a low amount of turnovers. Balance is the key and they have been pretty balanced lately running and passing. Ive said all along that Swallow is a good Qb and Thile shouldnt stack 8 in the box every play. Its going to be fun as i will be attending the game as i live 45 min away.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on October 03, 2006, 08:54:03 PM
Any opinions on W&J and/or Thiel's coaching staffs and their styles? I've been pretty impressed with W&J's spread the field passing game. It works as long as you have the speed and talent. Although the smashed-mouth Allegheny game was a bit different. Both teams seem to have pretty good defenses.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 03, 2006, 09:14:51 PM
Thiel's defense is better than it was two years ago.....so I dont think its fair to compare Thiel's small and quick defense from two years ago to this years small and quick defense. 

However, that is what the game will come down to.  If Thiel can make W&J one dimensional by stopping the run, then it will be a good game with the Tomcats coming out on top.  But.........the question is-- can they stop the run and make W&J throw the ball almost every down???  I really don't know I have arguments both ways----  we will find out on Saturday in Greenville PA.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fb4life1 on October 03, 2006, 09:52:02 PM
CC,

I will not be able to make it to Greenville this weekend.  Family obligations will keep me away!

Wes,

I agree with you that W&J will be able to run on the undersized and overhyped Thiel D.   However, I was interested in your comments about last years game and checked the games stats.  I was surprised to find that W&J rushed 29 times for 67 yards, not very impressive.  I still feel that W&J will rush for about 200 yards this time around.  We shall see.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2006, 11:27:09 PM
Both Coaching staffs are solid. They both have different philosophies.

I DO think Thiel's defense will be able to shut down the run and they will walk the walk so to say this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 04, 2006, 12:06:08 AM
Stats dont show as they got away from the run but early in the game they were having success. And i disagree i beleive that the Thiel d from two years ago is better  than this years D for a few reasons #90 George Kum Ji and  Chris Minton. I do not beleive that the Thiel D line has any one close to those two or an All American in the secondary like Kennard Davis(albeit overated). Thiels overall team may have improved but not the Defense. Lorber is a good d lineman but not on the level of those two previous mentioned. But thats neither here nor there things will be settled this saturday on the turf in greenville.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 04, 2006, 08:23:37 AM
Mantooth,

No doubt about it George and Minton up front gave Thiel size, power and talent up front to stuff the run.

What Thiel has been so good at is coaching the guys to be sound football players.  Each one of those D lineman and Linebackers know their role and they do not try make more plays than they can.  Another big difference is these guys had the leadership of the seniors that graduated before them, and they know how hard they have to work to win PAC's and be 1-0 on every saturday.  Yes, size might not be the same but they are still closing holes and flying to the ball, and that is something Thiel coaches demand everday out of their players. 

Thiel may not have the biggest and most talented Defense but they have depth and guys who go out there and just do their job.  They understand the game and they are coachable.  So they have the opportunity rotate guys in and out to keep their players fresh.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2006, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on October 03, 2006, 09:02:03 AM
So your saying if Thiel wins Saturday you not giving them a chance to win out?  Or are you saying that an 8-2 Thiel team doesnt make the playoffs? Or both..... I can recall in 2004 Thiel was 7-2 going into the final game of the year against Buff State....as it turned out if they would have won they would have made the playoffs at 8-2....and they barely missed at 7-3.

I'm saying IF Thiel wins Saturday, the PAC will NOT have an NCAA tournament team.

I'm NOT saying Thiel can not win out.  They certainly can.

I'm saying I don't believe an 8-2 team from THIS YEAR'S PAC makes the dance.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 04, 2006, 03:39:42 PM
Bob...

Do you think the fact that the PAC Champ starting next year is guaranteed a spot will effect this years selection. With 2 in last year and an automatic next year, I don't think they would ignore an 8-2 Thiel or W & J.
Or do we think they will overlook the conference since the champ will get the automatic next year anyway.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2006, 03:58:02 PM
South,

I don't believe next year's AQ status will have any impact on this year's selection.

We've seen strange things happen amongst the "B" Poolers over the last several years.  There have been too many good teams some years.  There have been years where there weren't enough quality teams and still the spots had to be filled.

Many things can still happen, leaving a 2-loss PAC team up for serious consideration.  But, for a 2-loss PAC team to be up for ANY consideration, at least several things are going to have to happen.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 04, 2006, 06:59:32 PM
Bob,

Great points!!!

Almost Saturday Predictions coming up in the next few days!!

GO TOMCATS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 05, 2006, 09:40:48 AM
Well..........it's that time for the Swammy to start this week's poster's selections.
TMC vs Westminster, TMC 's defense against the run is very good which will about stall rungame which will make QB have to throw more, his stats have been good in that regard but TMC defense against pass is also good with LB and CB's. Stellman, QB at TMC has some good mobility and good view of field as first year player. Critical game for TMC a little more than Westminny for Westminny must play all top teams left Thiel, WJ and Waynesburg. Tough loss to Thiel haunts TMC but they win here
TMC 21
WM  7

GC vs Bethany......Grind out run game of GC will conrol ball and eat clock, QB getting better each week for GC, Bethany more open offense must make big plays passsing to keep game competitive. Sunny day forecast maybe helpful to utilize speed more in skiled positions but still fall short
GC 21
Bethany 14

Thiel/WJ.........big time game of year in PAC at somewhat early stage of season with some possible?? things down the road blocking clear path for each team. I just can't seem to think that WJ will stop Thiel's run game since Salisbury went threw them and around them although I think Thiel could snuff some of the WJ run game with LB play, stunts, stacking box... leaving QB no option to pass more which could open things up a little for WJ. Receiving corp for WJ is good and also can make things happen after catch. QB at Thiel will need to have "solid day" to keep CB and Safety's at bay on Defense for WJ. If that happens this game will be going down to 4th quarter and a turnover changing game around. Swammy see's this one with home field making difference and a couple key calls going their way:
Thiel 13
WJ 10

Good Luck to all teams this weekend, even the Bye team....Waynesburg....who rests up for bigger weeks to come, starting with Bethany next week at Homecoming but ya gotta want it fellas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 05, 2006, 11:46:53 AM
Prediction Time:

TMC @ Westmini

TMC goes on the road again this week and looks to snap thier losing streak and get even up their record conference play.  The Titans are trying to forget about their one point loss to GCC last weekend and get thier first win in conference play. I think this game will feature more scoring then most think as Westminster will look to throw the ball while TMC will have a little more success offensively this week. I think it will come down to the better defense.

TMC 28 Westmini 20

Bethany vs Grove City

Grove City was able to pull out the one point victory at home last week vs the visiting Titans. While Bethany did not fair that well in thier first conference game vs the defending champion Tomcats. I see this game as a good game. It will come down to Bethany and thier ability to stop the run. My magic eightball says No!

GCC 31 Bethany 21

Game of the week:

Thiel vs W&J

Thiel's returns home for only the second time in 6 weeks and its thier Homcoming as they look to stay atop the conference standings. W&J seeks revenge of the OT loss last year and is coming off a bye week. I think this game will be a very good game much like last years game in Washington. Both temas are different teams as graduation hit both teams. This game will feature more running this year and will be won up front. Thiel's offense looks like it finally got back on track last week and it was lead by the rushing of Minton and Hess. W&J put up high numbers in their last game as Mendel rushed for nearly 200 yards. The question is whether or not these teams can run on each other. I see the conference leaders in rush defense walking the walk before a fired up homecoming crowd.

Thiel 21 W&J 17


Good Luck to all teams this week

GO TOMCATS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 05, 2006, 12:33:44 PM
I see GC being able to run the ball but not dominate with the run. BC has starting linebackers back this week and the D will play much better than against Thiel. BC threw for over 200 yards in the rain and muck last week and against an average defense, I can see the BC passing game going for 300+ yards.  IF BC can get through the 1st qtr without giving their opponent a 14 point lead as they have allowed in 3 of 4 games and if BC can even run for 75-80 yards, they will win the day.

I'll reverse Pitt's prediction...BC 31   GC 21.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 05, 2006, 05:27:45 PM
Willy,  Here are your comments from the previous posts:

And I had to put some facts out there about the "AVERAGE DEFENSE" of Thiel.

QuoteI see GC being able to run the ball but not dominate with the run. BC has starting linebackers back this week and the D will play much better than against Thiel. BC threw for over 200 yards in the rain and muck last week and against an average defense, I can see the BC passing game going for 300+ yards.  IF BC can get through the 1st qtr without giving their opponent a 14 point lead as they have allowed in 3 of 4 games and if BC can even run for 75-80 yards, they will win the day.

I'll reverse Pitt's prediction...BC 31   GC 21

Thiel for having an average defense did a bang up job in a 49-7 drubbing of your bisons.  Bethany ran 58 total offensive plays and had 201 total yards which includes -3 on 21 rushing attempts.  Bisons two quarterbacks attempted 36 passes which comes out to be 62% of the time your passing the ball. 

Bethany also has great recievers with parker and Cruze and to think the Oline could run all over Thiel would of been a mistake, and the coaches knew their strengths and they passed all day.  Of course your going to rack up some yardage by passing 62% of the time. 

To say Thiels D is average here are some stats for you to chew on:

Tomcats are ranked 17th in the nation for total defense and 37th in total defense in the nation.

In the PAC Thiel's Defense is ranked number 1.  Including these categories also Points allowed a game, passng yards allowed, rushing yards allowed and total defense.

Dating back to 2004 (27 games)  the only running backs to eclipse 100 yards are Ryan Mendel with 105 in   2004, and Ryan Ables 123 yards in 2005. 


Tell me now is Thiel's Defense still average? 

If Thiel's Defense is average than the Bison's offense is overated. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 05, 2006, 05:45:31 PM
CC...

Ouch, sorry to get you so excited.

My grammar was probably bad but I was refering to the Grove City defense the Bison play this week as average. I mentioned in a previous post that I think Thiel has the "D" to shut down W & J's run game and lock up a close win at homecoming.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 05, 2006, 05:49:34 PM
CC...

I look forward to your opinion and prediction for the BC/GC game this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 05, 2006, 06:19:46 PM
South Willy,

My apologies!  I referenced that line in terms of Thiel's Defense now I can breath a little!  Once again sorry about that I honestly read your paragraph 4 times to be sure I understood everything.  I really am sorry. 

Other than that I agree your observations thus far! 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 05, 2006, 06:27:27 PM
Geez Cleveland......calm down!!! just jk
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 05, 2006, 06:40:57 PM
Hostilities abound this week as the war of Words has begun. Its good to see the PAC posting getting a little riled up. Lets get the predictions going as i beleive i pretty much hit every game right on the money except the GC Westminnie game.  Only time i will thank Waynesburg for a victory as well.

TMC -16 @ Westminster-12

This will be an ugly battle with turnovers causing the game to go in TM favor. Westminster has been in battles all season long. There will be no offense in this matchup as both teams will score a defensive TD.

GCC- 22 @ Bethany- 10

Why are we hearing about Bethany still oh thats right they won two games. As i said last week they would get a dose of reality and that was served up nicely. Once again it is served up in two of the least talented teams in the conference. GCC Didinato is proving to be the freshman phenom and once again will throw one and run one in to pull out the victory. I will say this Bethany is heading in the right track under this coaching staff which is good for the conference.

AND NOW........THE GAME OF THE YEAR(OR CENTURY)

Let me first say that Salisbury was in the PAC they would win it. They are a bigger physical team than Thiel as well. If Thiel expects they are going to run over W&J they are mistaken they are not Salisbury. Allegheny thought they would do that and they lost. Also Salisbury runs a triple option based scheme that is tough to defend.

W&J- 23 @ Thiel - 20

W&J runs for 180 total as a team as the Oline proves its the best in the conference. Todd (the Yiz )Young chest bumps each olineman after they score three rushing TD's. Thiels offense answers the bell with a balanced approach  that makes this close throughout. Kyle(Chicken)Sidebotham drills a 35 yarder with 1 minute left in the game and W&J squeaks out of Greenville with a win. I will be their for the game and cannot wait as Thiel always has a good and loud croud.

Good Luck to all

Go W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fb4life1 on October 05, 2006, 09:00:05 PM
Prediction Time!!!

The "Darkside"  ;D is exposed by the Presidents as W&J rushes for 200 yards.  In the games big match up, W&J's O-line proves that size does matter as they dominate the LOS.  Thiel's small and quick front will be abused in this one!  The Prez D stands up big and picks off the Tomcats 4 times, one taken back to the house.  Make sure to get their early because this one will be over by halftime. 

W&J 35
Thiel 7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 05, 2006, 10:32:15 PM
Wow nice prediction 35-7??   W&J putting up 35 on Thiel- ZERO chance.  Did you think you had Mount Unions Offense for a game?  This will be a close one within 3 or 4 points either way.  I am going to have to go with the Tomcats winning a close one 21-14.  I just dont see W&J moving the ball on Thiel's defense..........but we will find out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 06, 2006, 08:42:13 AM
OT,
Wow, that does seem real heavy on prediction for blow-out win. Experienced O-LIne I can give some credit too but being that dominant, not quite sure?

Wes
I didn't get your drift....thanking of Waynesburg for win? Thiel does see them next week in either of few scenarios
1.) Licking their chops after upset win over WJ even though they were ranked as preseason pick and can't wait for clash with Waynesburg.
2) or in  sad recovery mode after 3rd season loss to WJ and possibly a 4th with Geneva escape?  a rebuilding season with too many lost players from last's years squad.
3) WJ waiting winner of Thiel/Waynesburg game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 06, 2006, 09:17:45 AM
Prediction Friday!!!!

Nice Predictions already and one that I am not too sure about....


TMC vs WestMinnie:

Too many young guns for Jeff Hand and company and solid defense for TMC results into mental mistakes which leads to turnovers and points on the board for TMC.
TMC will have a defensive touchdown or two in this game and the offense will thrive off the defense's tough and stout play and great field position all day. 
Final Score: 28-0

Bud Light PLayer of the Game:  R. West LB  11 tackles 4 solo 2 for loss and INT for a TD.

GCC vs Bethany:
DiDonato the young QB is a star in the making in the PAC but hes not quite ready to shine.  As South Willy stated they will have their Starting LB's back this week which will provide some more help and be enough to help shutdown the Wing T by GCC. 
Bethany's new coach's are doing a solid job with utilizing Owens, Parker, and Cruze.  GCC does not have enough speed to cover those two and one of those two guys will break the game wide open late in the 3rd. 

Budweiser Select Player of the Game: TJ. Parker 7 Receptions 121 yards 2 TD's
Bethany 28-14

WJ vs Thiel

Who is going to win the battle upfront?  Thiel's Defense will be tough to get through for 3 quarters, but turnovers have been Thiel's achillies Heel in a loss to Alfred, but the offense has matured since then and will learn to protect the football.  WJ's big guys will open holes but Thiel's blitzing and quick Defense will limit the amount of yards from scrimmage.  Swallow will pass for a 175 and Mendel will run for 100 yards.  Billy Blanks and company will be very competitive and move the ball at times during the game and will be sticking around for the most part. 

WJ being bigger upfront will have the advantage, but needing to convert on a 3rd down and 7 from their own 40 they will pass and be picked off with Minutes to play in the game.  Blankenship and Co. will pound the ball down the field looking to setup a Sammy Koyl field goal, but on 2nd down Thiel's O coordinator calls for a play action pass and WR LaScola catches the ball in the endzone with one on one coverage and the safety is late arriving biting on the play action to minton. 
Tomcats escape with a narrow victory at Stoeber Field.

TC 24 WJ 23

Budweiser Player of the Game:

D. Thompson Safety: 8 Tackles 1 sack, FF, and an INT.

Waynesburg off but licking thier chops to get back into action next week against TC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 06, 2006, 11:10:11 AM
Quote from coach Sirianni about Thiel

"They run the ball well, play hard on defense and they have won the close games," said W&J head coach Mike Sirianni. "Some people might say they've been lucky. But they are not lucky; they are well-coached."

Well stated- can't wait for Saturday
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2006, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: fb4life1 on October 05, 2006, 09:00:05 PM
Prediction Time!!!

The "Darkside"  ;D is exposed by the Presidents as W&J rushes for 200 yards.  In the games big match up, W&J's O-line proves that size does matter as they dominate the LOS.  Thiel's small and quick front will be abused in this one!  The Prez D stands up big and picks off the Tomcats 4 times, one taken back to the house.  Make sure to get their early because this one will be over by halftime. 

W&J 35
Thiel 7

The Presidents have shown, weekly, their renewed commitment to run the ball, and control the tempo of the game thereby.  That is, since Salisbury showed its own commitment to run the ball and control the tempo of the game.

My guess is that Thiel will try to run the ball, alot, and keep the Presidents offense off the field.

I think the Red & Black win, but it won't be like the old days, that's for sure.  Don't look for any running clocks, or roster changes at the half like we regularly saw at Stewart Field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNULifer on October 06, 2006, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on October 05, 2006, 06:40:57 PM

Let me first say that Salisbury was in the PAC they would win it. They are a bigger physical team than Thiel as well. If Thiel expects they are going to run over W&J they are mistaken they are not Salisbury. Allegheny thought they would do that and they lost. Also Salisbury runs a triple option based scheme that is tough to defend.


Um I could be wrong but if Salisbury could win your conference then you guys need a gut check.  CNU made that triple option look pretty bad.  And we got 7 new starters on D.  Ferrum runs a better triple option and we shut it down last year to the tune of 44 - 7.  UMHB came to virginia with an option offense too.  they are averaging over 30 points a game and only got 10 on CNU.  I know from past experience that your W&J teams have had great offenses.  maybe you should try some D.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2006, 07:07:55 AM
Who knows, Lifer?

CNU runs the table, the Presidents do the same, and you guys might get a look at the Presidents' D....

By the way, just for the record, what's CNU's record against that Presidents' defense?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 07, 2006, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2006, 07:07:55 AM
Who knows, Lifer?

CNU runs the table, the Presidents do the same, and you guys might get a look at the Presidents' D....

By the way, just for the record, what's CNU's record against that Presidents' defense?

Ooo, ooo ... can I take this one?! :)

It's clear they are 0-2, but the two things that jump out at me about what W&J's D did...

-CNU scored 24 points in the first halves, and a combined 0 in the second
-CNU averaged 2.5 yards per play

I'd say W&J's D was pretty good against CNU.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jeremybozz on October 07, 2006, 05:19:28 PM
W&J 27
Thiel 23   FINAL
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2006, 06:39:10 PM
Lifer,

You are talking and comparing to LAST year?  I don't think I need to remind you the calendar has flipped to '06 since LAST season. 


TMC-Westminster.....WOW, sounds like the offense came together. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 07, 2006, 06:47:49 PM
Great Game today in Greenville. I think My prediction was as close as you could get. Some impressions from the game. First i was really impressed with Thiels offense and the senior Qb as they showed a more spread style offense that had a lot of yards.   Second Bobby Swallow is the next star Qb at W&J. Wow after constant harrassing from the Thiel alumni and students on the fence Swallow shut them up with a couple of TD passes that kept them in the game. Third if there is a better D lineman than Dan Broadland in conference i havent seen him as he was the difference in the crunch with a couple of key sacks. I thought i counted 4 but i could be wrong as i have not saw the stats from the game. All in all a great game and good win for W&J. Steve Minton appeared to have left in the 3 quarter with a knee injury not good news for the the Tomcats. Also who calls a WR reverse pass up by three in a tight contest with 8 min left at the 10 yard line. That play cost the tomcats the conference and playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2006, 07:32:49 PM
Very entertaining game at Alumni Field this afternoon.

Thiel brings it right down the field against the Presidents, but have PAT blocked (crucial point).  TC 6-0

Presidents respond with long drive (first of 3 80+ yards scoring drives in game) and kick the PAT.  W&J 7-6

Then, W&J goes into awful funk in second quarter, mishandling kicks, fumbling runs, dropping passes, kicking poorly.  Thiel takes advantage and takes 16-7 lead into the lockerroom.

Presidents drive the length to score, opening third quarter only to see drive back themselves, putting lead back to 9.. Tomcats conver 3rd/12 & 3rd/9 early in this possession.  TC 23-14

After teams trade punts, W&J chunks it down the field, then gets corner to bite on swing-pass pump fake, leaving McCafferty wide open for TD with 9:50 to play. TC 23-21

Bad, bad pass by LaScola on the end around pass.  Bad, bad call by OC for Thiel from own 10 yard line.  Then, with the interception in hand, Cherish steps out of bounds without necessity....W&J settles for field goal.  W&J 24-23.

Brodland rips ball out making tackle.  Broken play on 3rd/1 at the 8 leads to another field goal.  W&J 27-23  2:07 left.

Blankenship finds people open, moves right up the field, 1st/10 at W&J 13 with about 35 seconds to play.  6 yards on 1st down, out of bounds.
Blank makes bad throw, three steps to wide in endzone, then gets sacked.  Now 4th/7 at the 10.  Second poor throw of the day by Blank, leading LaScola too far in the back left corner of endzone.

Game over.

Thiel rushed for 106 in first half, 9 yards in second.....
Blankenship was 22-29 for 236 and 1 td
Minton 13-45, no scores and injured with about 5 mins left in 3rd.  Did not return.
Blankenship rushed 11-46 and 2 tds.

Swallow was 19-25 for 215 and 2 td.
Mendel 23-105 and 1 td.

Presidents didn't play their best game by any stretch, but found will and way to win, staying in the Pool B hunt.

Both put on a show for a great and receptive crowd, not to mention radio/internet listeners the world over.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 08, 2006, 11:49:56 AM
If you were not in Greenville you missed a really good game. It was a tale of two halves. Thiel rolled the first half but key turnovers and W&J's rushing attack was the difference in the second half as they were able to pull the come from behind win on the road in a tough environment.

The reverse pass up by a few points can be easily second guessed. But if he would have done what the coach wanted him to do Thiel would have had a really good chance of winning the game. Lascola was only suppossed to throw the ball if he was wide open. He could have easily ran 30 yards or more down the sideline into W&J territory. Instead the pass is intercepted and returned deep into Tomcat territory where they eventually kicked the game winner.

Congrats to W&J on the win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 08, 2006, 01:23:58 PM
Damn I hate when the better team loses........but thats football.....congrats to Thiel and W&J on a great game
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 08, 2006, 03:32:26 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on October 08, 2006, 01:23:58 PM
Damn I hate when the better team loses........but thats football.....congrats to Thiel and W&J on a great game

Bitter for one please?   :D








Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 08, 2006, 06:54:26 PM
To All...

Didn't get to see the champions battle it out but came north to see the Bison win their first PAC contest since 2001. Overall a good competitive game with BC's aerial attack outlasting GC's running attack. Defenses giving up lots of yards on both sides of the ball. Great homecoming win for BC and some great tailgating well into the night.
I'm not looking forward to next week in Waynesburg but if the weather is clear and BC can toss it all day, anything can happen. CC, nice call on the game as Cruse and Parker both had big days.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 01:15:09 AM
Just a question:  Is this really a 'rival game' when in the last 25 years one team has won 24 games?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: TC442005 on October 09, 2006, 08:05:38 AM
looking at the last 6 years of Coach Leip's Thiel team.. It has became a Rivallry...The better team will win the game, but both teams feel it on sunday morning..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on October 09, 2006, 08:47:41 AM
Off the subject, but for all you W&J fans, your favorite Mayor got to spend some time with a certain UK-Pittsburgh Hater:

http://kdka.com/video/?id=20829@kdka.dayport.com
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 09, 2006, 09:02:01 AM
Since coach leip and the new coaching staff arrived in 2001, W&J has become a rivalry.  The games are very competitive and its not a given anymore that W&J is going to win.  Scores from the last few years:

2001= 38-20 W&J
2002= 21-17 W&J
2003= 17-10 W&J
2004= 34-10 W&J
2005= 38-35 TC
2006= 27-23 W&J

Thiel usually finds a way to shoot themselves in the foot against W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 09, 2006, 09:20:22 AM
Burgh Boy,

Great to see you finnally posting on here again.

Great game this weekend at Greenville.  Mendle is the real deal and i fortenatly enough had an opportunity to meet his father after the game also, and the man is a saint and you can see his discipline he has implemented in his son as he has a calm cool wager about him throughout the game.  He is also calm in making his cuts and dodging Thiel defenders.  Hes not real quick but he is very effective and a smart runner.  I truly believe he was a difference maker. 

Thiel was the better team for 3 and half quarters of play and turnovers plagued them in the fourth and WJ being a solid team took advantage.  Church was being taunted by the Thiel students along the fence and he stayed calm and also he ran over to the Offensive coordinator to tell him to call up the fade in the back of the endzone which Thiel's corner bit on and he found Mcafferty wide open in the endzone.  Perfect play call by church.

Great Plays and players on both sides.  Thiel did a solid job of moving the ball effectivinly on WJ for the most part including the TD on their first drive of the game.  Thiel had to win the battle of special teams because of the lack of a punting by WJ.  Thiel had better field position all day for the most part, and the game won until two turnovers plagued them. 

I predicted Lascola to have a big day and he did with lots of receptions, a touchdown and  RAC yards , but they called up the same  (Roll out and throw deep play) play again and WJ was ready for it.  I did not agree with that call either, but you have to roll with the punches and WJ took advantage. 

Great Game I think everyone was suprised by the way Thiel moved the ball on WJ throughout the game, and how their defense did a nice job of slowing down WJ's offense. 

Billy Blankenship solid game also and I must say I was very impressed with his adjustments he made throughout the game, and when he saw a reciever open down field he completed the pass. 

Goodluck to WJ the rest of the way as they look like the only team who maybe respresenting the PAC come November. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 09:23:59 AM
So because the games are close, it's a rivalry?

I have to think that it probably wasn't a 'rivalry' game from the W&J end until they actually lost last year, and probably needs to happen more in terms of actual wins from Thiel before it's classified as such.

I agree it's closer and not a 'given'.  We know what close counts in, and football isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 09, 2006, 09:33:51 AM
Burgh Boy,

Good to see you back on here defending the Presidents.  Your right its at looking at the last 25 years its not a rivalry, but now its atleast a competitive game and not a given anymore. 

Something we have talked about earlier in this forum was the level of talent throughout the conference has leveled some, and teams have been more competetive in challenging for the conference title.  The days of WJ being a lock to win the conference are not as clear as they used to be. 

Rivalry might still be farfetched if you look at the last 25 years, but being a competitive and hard hitting game is starting to become an expectation.  Looking forward to seeing how the rest of the PAC settles and if anyone can unseat WJ or give Thiel a second loss in PAC play.  Goodluck to everyone this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 01:23:26 PM
Good to hear from you as well CC.  I havent posted in a few weeks, but read a lot last week and enjoyed the banter.

As for defending the team, obviously I want them to win, but I still have concerns about how they will hold up through the season.  I agree the talent level has evened out, but also hold my alma mater as accountable for not maintaining their standards as a program as much as Thiel for improving their program.

The football program at W&J should strive to reach the levels of a Mount Union instead of battling Thiel for who has the better program. 

Nothing against Thiel, but beating them doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 09, 2006, 02:09:27 PM
BURGH BOY,

I understand that completely and I take it as a compliment.  Some might say its a knock on us but really your giving Thiel College credit for putting the money and resources together to bring in a solid established staff and continue to put the money and make improvements along the way. 

Thiel has done that with the football team and it has payed dividends in the sense that more alumni and residents in the area are coming to see football games at Alumni Stadium.

Being that you graduated in the days when WJ dominated this conference easily every year I am sure it is frustrating to see the transformation that has gone on in the PAC.  Great comment about how the program should of been battling with Mount as opposed to Thiel.

I believe the last great team that could of done that would of been Dawson, Joey Nichols, and Frye.  All three of those studs I believe could of played at the next level whether it was Europe or Canada, and I believe Dawson had tryouts for a few NFL teams as did Frye at WR.  That was also the last year of Banazcak and then the new crew took over with his departure. 

Overall I understand your mentality and why you believe you should be beating on these teams like you are used to seeing for the last 25 years! 
Just like the browns before the NFL was actually formed they won the American Football League Championship almost every year in the 50's and early 60's.  Now in the NFL we havent won a single championship.  It is aweful and think about the older crowd who are in their 60's now who havent seen a championship sinc ethe Indians won back in 1954.  Pretty Bad here in Cleveland!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 02:52:22 PM
CC,

You couldn't be more right about my opinion on Thiel.  I think it's fantastic that they have improved the program to it's current level.  I'm also sure that they don't want to stop there. I think it's great not only having a coach that has such an accomplished resume as Leipheimer does, but also the intangible of being a Thiel alum himself.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2006, 02:59:22 PM
CC, make no mistake, W&J has come back to the PAC.

However, that move is absolutely dwarfed by the Leips and Bounds move forward by the Thiel program.

This isn't your daddy's Tomcats!  It's not even your older brothers!

I've covered PAC football since the '81-'82 season regularly.  Thiel's move up in the conference is, by far, the most significant move in a short period of time this conference has seen in those 25 years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2006, 03:09:43 PM
Quote from: oldtimer4774 on October 09, 2006, 09:02:01 AM...
2004= 34-10 W&J
...

I believe that's the year the 'shot in the foot' happened early and often at Alumni Stadium....

1st possession--TC fumble, returned for TD.
2nd possession--TC punt, blocked, recovered at TC 9.  Two plays later, 14-0.

4th possession--TC gives ball up on downs.  W&J drives 84 yards, 11 plays, 21-0. game over early in 2nd quarter.

The other games on the list were in play late in the game....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2006, 02:59:22 PM
CC, make no mistake, W&J has come back to the PAC.


I'm just glad to see someone else post this.  I'm starting to feel like a crusty old guy and resisting the urge to make up stories about walking to school...uphill...both ways :)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 09, 2006, 04:06:43 PM
Bob,

That Thiel homecoming game was Attrocious!  Thiel never gave up but WJ not only was the better team that day, but that season as well.  Not a good way to celebrate homecoming. 

Also, From saturdays game:

WJ's defense is looking good but had some downfalls particularly in the secondary which i thought would be the stronghold with Cherish who I believe was an All american pick?    Could be wrong, but he did lay the wood to some Thiel recievers over the middle but they were able to hang on.  Thiel actually outgained WJ by about 30 yards, and the rushing yards went to WJ by about 20 or so 139 (WJ)  to 115 (Thiel).

Great Credit must also go out ot Seidbotham the Place Kicker for WJ as he has consisently hit big time field goals in his career.  Two big ones and the extra points to help seal the deal against the Tomcats.  I would say he has done a solid job in replacement of the Mayor of Pittsburgh Luke Ravenstahl who was also a standout.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 09, 2006, 06:49:54 PM
Poster's
What truely was a great game  to liste to on radio  and also that with all the hype up front during week one would hardly imagine that after 59 minutes 50 seconds would game go down to final play.
WJ was relentless in their quest to end game as Winner but Thiel gave galliant effort. Turnover's proved to be brutal but the play calling on the end aound pass play was a play that Coach Lep would like to have back.
Was a hec of game for the PAC and all the fans that follow confernce.

South Willy.....I see your trip up to Bethany game was a sweet trip. Homecoing victory.....Bethany did roll up some nice numbers and hope to continue that this week against Waynesburg team. Earl weather foecast calls for dry weather Saturday mid 50's.
Should be fun to see if they get 2nd PAC win in  a row against a hungry Jacket Football team, we''l see.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2006, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 03:43:49 PM...I'm starting to feel like a crusty old guy and resisting the urge to make up stories about walking to school...uphill...both ways :)

Let's get a couple things straight, here, burghboy.

You ARE a crusty old guy.  And what's really wild is that, if you played at W&J in the last 25 years, I'm an even crustier, or at least OLDER guy!

But it WAS UPHILL to school...BOTH WAYS!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: TC442005 on October 09, 2006, 09:09:02 PM
CC
That 34-10 lost was a horrible homecoming...Alot of people forget that Steve Minton had 97 yds in the first half, and then the opening third quarter drive by W&J took close to 9 minutes off the clock.  That is what killed Us that game...We put Minton in the garage the whole second half. and tried to play with W&J through the Air, Not happening

Burgh Boy
And aagain with this "Rivalry thing"  W&J players get up for Thiel week now adays  Trust me They do, cause last year we were going back and forth with former highschool team mates and their defense was worried about our offense...it is not like in your days, when W&J would bring there JV up to Greenville High School

Leip and His staff has put "Us/ Thiel" in positions to win games, but when we were3-7, we didn't finish as players.  the last couple of years we had the experience and deterimination to Finish and we had players that made the big plays.   This year's Team has a solid foundation and they just need to have the confidence we had last 2 years to finish.   I have not been to pratices, but i feel they need some people to step up and take over practices and games. 
i do know that this team after the Albion lost was worried about "Play off's"  right there showed me that their mindset was completely off topic.  Now it is time to shut up and play for a winning season.  And possible see some of those stud freshman get some Experience.

BANE Hall Shout out
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: TC442005 on October 09, 2006, 09:09:02 PM
Burgh Boy
And aagain with this "Rivalry thing"  W&J players get up for Thiel week now adays  Trust me They do, cause last year we were going back and forth with former highschool team mates and their defense was worried about our offense...it is not like in your days, when W&J would bring there JV up to Greenville High School


Well, by all means that proves it!

I mean, as a player, who wouldn't 'get up' for a team, or want to defeat an opponent that had a former high school teammate on it?

I can't believe ABC doesn't do regional coverage after reading that post for the 2007 matchup.  ::)



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 09, 2006, 11:38:37 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 09, 2006, 09:23:59 AM
So because the games are close, it's a rivalry?

I have to think that it probably wasn't a 'rivalry' game from the W&J end until they actually lost last year, and probably needs to happen more in terms of actual wins from Thiel before it's classified as such.

I agree it's closer and not a 'given'.  We know what close counts in, and football isn't one of them.

I think since the 17-10 game in Washington its been a rivalry game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 10, 2006, 12:53:33 AM
I would respond but Im too busy trying to get a referral from a doctor for crustiness.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 10, 2006, 11:41:20 AM
AC24..

Thanks for the weather forecast and if it stays dry, I hope Bethany will make a game of it. Senior QB is starting to spread the ball around to all 4 receivers which makes coverage much more than just keying on Parker. BC must limit turnovers(fumbled and fell behind by 7 points last week) and run the ball for 70-90 yds to be in the game.
WC running backs should have a big game but hopefully Bison can keep the points in the 21-24 range.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 10, 2006, 12:41:39 PM
South Willy,

We are all too enamored on the WJ Thiel game and atleast I havent given any respect to Bethany for their first conference win since 2001 i believe the stats said.


Bison's the coaching staff seems to be going in the right direction and the players are responding well.  Great win against GCC who might be in a transition for quite sometime now, but that is still a solid victory against a GCC team that is not a slouch.

More victories from the Bisons and TJ Parker and company I might be jumping on the bandwagon!  Having more competition in this conference will only help elevate the level of competiviness and play in the PAC.  I am exicited and so should the fans from Bethany.  Other than that solid win and I am very happy for those guys especially the seniors who have been working hard for the last 4 years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 11, 2006, 07:51:29 AM
South Willy
Yes, turnovers can be critical and that is for both teams as showed this past week at Thiel although WJ fumbled BUT they got 2 of their 3 back....imagine what could of happened if that would of happened, possibly shoe would be on other foot with Thiel win.
Getting back to Bethany/Waynesburg....dry day for Saturday is early forecast of 50 at game time but sunny. Should leave for good game in two teams that do thinsg differently, Jackets-Run, Bethany Pass. Defense that stands tallest and offense that has least turnovers making difference. Bethany does have some payback in mind over last few years for sure but speed can be factor here.
CC
You made some good points over lastw eek in Thiel/WJ game but that game as you would indicate is in the books and history. Moving on to week 7 this year, how do you see th games unfolding? Waynesburg heading into Thiel at top 3-0 in conference....did anyone notice that? Maybe it weill be short lived but th team that started 0-3 might be back on track where both sides of ball are getting better. The Bethany/Waynesburg match-up probably is game of week in PAC for if Bethany wins they still have remaining WJ at end of season which could factor big implications...alot to happen before then though for sure.

Bring on week #7.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2006, 12:16:11 PM
It should be an interesting twist Saturday at Cameron Stadium.

A great number of Thomas Jefferson High School graduates have roamed the W&J sidelines over the years, including TJ quarterback Brian Dawson who graduated with nearly every W&J passing record.

Now, Saturday afternoon, one that got away is going to try to beat the Red & Black.  Westminster qb Kevin Franz leads the PAC with 206.4 passing yards per game.  Franz helped the Jaguars to the AAA state title in 2004, though not as a quarterback.  Franz had three int's on the season, including one against Manheim Central in the state finals.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 11, 2006, 07:17:17 PM
AC,

I am stoked for week 7 with the game against the Yellow Jackets and it will be a great game two weeks in a row to watch in greenville.  I am also particulary excited about WJ's homecoming with two big names Ravenstahl and Goodell coming back to their old stomping ground.  If I was a player for WJ Iwould be excited and trying to reach out and shake the hand of those two successful men. 

In Greenville though will be a tough matchup and a hardnose game.  Whoever keeps the turnovers low and can run the ball successfully will win the game.  Also, the key factor is who will be able to keep the defense on their toes by passing through the air.  Thiel had the advantage there as Blankenship put on a passing clinic last week against WJ.  NEver count out the Yellow Jackets with two dual threat running backs which one is the alltime leading rusher with Abels.  Great game should be a treat to watch seems like the weather will be much cooler than last weeks game in the mid 50's. Last week was in the 70's easily and the temp on the field was probably in the 80's with the field turf.

Good Luck to all teams and stay health PAC!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 12, 2006, 08:54:35 AM
CC, I must admit that I was very surprised how Mr Blankenship threw the ball last week, he did make a big difference in addtion to his running. I had heard whilelistening to game that going into game that he was 3TD' passes and 8 Picks. That was a big game step up for him, possibly he getting better feel for game day.
I will also agree with your assumption on passing game being big for Jacket/Tomcat game, Both teams like run game but something may have to give. Dual threat at both schools in run game but I did hear that Minton got hurt last week and not sure of his aliment/severiyt knowing he did hurt ankle last year.
Jacket backs are very quick, different style runners but also have some good WR too that QB will need to get ball to keep things loose for them. Yes, anyone can figure that stopping run game at Waynesburg will stahl them somewhat but D is making big plays too.
They will be etsted by Bethany this week that loves to throw ball and the ??? there will be will he have enough time too get in groove and not be scrambling most of day as did TMC QB.
Should be good game though....and possibly coming into Thiel at 3-0 and on top which should make for some good pregame festivities and also key game.
It's been a quiet week on the poster board after last weeks big game at Thiel but it's almost prediction time for week 7.
South Willy, are you headed to Waynesburg??
Big Alumni roling into WJ country.........will Coach Hand have any surprises to stop WJ Offense?


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 12, 2006, 09:20:59 AM
AC...

I'm stuck in South Florida this week but I know from talking to fans at homecoming, the Bison will bring a good following to the game.
I'm hoping Bison will give WC a good game but WC quality Defense should be the difference in the game. I'll be stuck listening to the webcast.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2006, 09:55:14 AM
South Willy,

Its 30 degrees here this morning when I woke up.....HOW are you STUCK in South Florida?

I'm heading to Las Vegas in two weeks and I wish it were today.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 12, 2006, 10:08:58 AM
SaintsFAN...

It is 76 degrees and clear this morning so it is a great place to be STUCK!! I spent 30 years in Wheeling, WV and 4 at Bethany so I remember 30 degrees well. I do miss great fall days like last Saturday's homecoming at BC. I told my son I'd come watch the Bison as long as the game day weather was above 60 degrees but I am planning to fly up for the TMC game.

have a great time in Vegas.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 12, 2006, 10:15:44 AM
Sorry, Willy....

Stuck is what happened the Wednesday before Stagg Bowl 1992.  The busses pulled out of Washington, PA as the blizzard began, arriving at Pittsburgh International with 5 inches already on the ground.

We got out, and everyone else was STUCK.

You're in Florida, buddy.  Buck up, or head over to the cheerleading board.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 12, 2006, 06:22:14 PM
Its Thursday so its that time of the week to throw out the predictions. Last week proved to be a heart stopper. This week will be blowout central with no heart stoppers.

First we will go to Waynesburg

Bethany - 14 @ Waynesburg - 35

Bethany cannot stop the run and the Jackets have two backs much like Thiel who can run.  The Abels & Daniels Train run right over(250 yds Combo) Bethany and Czerwein pressures The Bison passing game into 3 picks. This one folks will be over in the third quarter.

Thiel -31 @ GCC-7

The Darkside D shuts down the Didinato led Wolverines and the Thiel O with their new spread look run and pass all over to a easy victory. Blankenship and Lascola hook up early and often. Blankenship throws for 190 and runs for 40 with a couple of Td's.

TMC-27 @ Frostburg-0

Tmc dominates on D and Monty Collier runs for 120 and two tds. Sounds like TMC young O is coming of age albeit against inferior opponents. Carlisle has 11 tackles and two sacks.

And now to the main attraction with the Commish and the Mayor in the house. Homecoming in WASHPA

Westminster- 21 @ W&J - 56

Franz has success in the short passing game early as the Presidents always give up the short pass. The lights then come on and the Presidents begin to churn with the run game. Mendel has over 200 yards and three Td's and Swallow throws for 210 and two scores to Briggs and Mcafferty. Unlike last wks prediction from one of our posters this game will be over at halftime.

Good Luck to All

Go Presidents


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: smbernacki on October 12, 2006, 10:20:52 PM
Where are all of this week's predictions?   ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2006, 11:59:10 PM
Where are yours? You could start it off instead of just complaining.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 13, 2006, 12:29:40 AM
Here are the unofficial PAC pick 'em standings...


RecordWin %
1AC24#7247-3.700
2Cleveland Cartel11-7.611
3Wes Mantooth16-11.593
4PittTBCW12-11.522

Only four people have predicted two or more weeks worth.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 13, 2006, 08:17:07 AM
Matt, Nice Job on the Stats, intersting here goes swammy for week 7, Can he stay on top?

WJ 48
Westminny 7
Pass and Run game both get in gear this week for big game with former Alumni attending game. I think Coach may want show a few things or two.
TJ QB may see a little Strong Safety of TJ WJ'S Cherish more than he likes.

Thiel 28
GC 21
Thiel hasn't shaken off last weeks loss quite as of yet. GC will move ball on ground and freshman QB Didanato getting better each week.
QB at Thiel coming aound with nice game last week against WJ and run game should be enough to control game tempo. Not sure if Steve Minton will be there but Hess should be good to go for 100.

Waynesburg 28
Bethany 10

Defense line pressure's QB all over field, although running out of shutgon with spread field things may be tough going. Surely he'll gets his completions but must hold on to the ball from swarming defense, Run D for Jackets hasn't gotten better as season moves along.
Waynesburg opens up a little more pass game to spread field with Cobb to Sheilds and TE Wright more for Motor backs in Jacket backfield. If Abels can have any kind of day like he has had in last 3 years..look out 11 TD'S, 9.9 yard average and +450 yards in playing 1/2 time(kinda amazing stats on PAC website). Daniels, quick, sneaky and bouncy runner that compliments good run game. Fullback Davis gets into mix this week as well. Should be great football weather in possibly another record breaking Saturday in Burnt Orange country.

TMC 21
Frostburg 7
Run game of Frostburg will get look at some stingy linebacker's led by Carlisle who kinda is like everywhere. New RB at TMC gets another crack at some yards while QB Stellman  makes big plays for TMC. D-Backs sneak a couple picks too......trying to get in better form for late game of season with WJ.

Good Luck to teams this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2006, 08:34:29 AM
Bethany vs Wayneburg

Great game offensively for the Yellow Jackets and having a week to rest and get healthy in preparing for the Bisons. 

Bisons are competitive but the run game is too much for the  bisons to handle and Abels brings home the bacon on homecoming.
Two touchdown runs for Abels including a long of 57 yards and 153 rushing yards to go along with 3 recpetions for 30 yards.  Great Fantasy numbers here.  Can we start a PAC fantasy football teams?  That would be quite interesting! 

Burg 42  Bethany 21

Thiel is back in action after a heartbreaking loss to WJ at home.  GCC is struggling and the future star at QB Didonato is going to have a tough day against the THiel D.  With the status of Minton up in the air, Hess will get the workload and run for 110 yards.  Billy Blanks has another solid outing hooking up with his possesion WR in Van Horn and his Playmaker in Lascola for a couple of TD's.  The Mercer County Cup stays at Thiel for this one with the Tomcats taking over in the 3rd quarter.

Thiel 38   GCC 20

TMC vs Frostburg

Frostburg always plays the PAC tough with upsetting victories in the past over WJ and Waynesburg I believe, and with this one being played on Frostburg's home turf with usually bigger players upfront they win a close game here.  Frostburg is 0-4 but wtih two losses against Wesley and Brockport which are perennial playoff teams every year.  TMC's defense plays tough as always but gets tired and worn down in the final 30 minutues of the game.  Offensive problems are still problematic for the Titans.

Frostburg 17- TMC 7

Westminster at WJ

Westmin is shutout in this contest and the Presidents are geeked after taking out the PAC champs and now playing on their home turf for homecoming weekend.  Let the party begin in Washington as Cherish has a INT to the house in this game and the Presidents Defense shuts down the young Offense led by Franz and company.  Swallow has anthoer solid game through the air with 3 TD's and 0 INTs.  The calm and steady Mendle bangs his way out to a 140 yard day with a couple of TD's, WJ's placekicker his one from deep in the early in the first quarter while on his way to banging through 7 extra points.

WJ 52  Westmin  3
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2006, 08:42:15 AM
AC, Mantooth, and Pitt,

So far mantooth and AC have gone with TMC with a victory over Frostburg that is the only difference in our predictions.  If Frostburg can continue to play the PAC tough and win it will boost the Cartel in the standings.

Mantooth has predicted nearly every week and has done pretty good with 27 predictions and 16 victories, and the swammy with 10 games under his belt is leading the way.  Still looking forward to Pitt's pregame predictions. 

Matt great work on finding those stats you must have done some serious digging to get all the weeks we have predicted.  Looking forward to the weekend and a possible appearance at Thiel for the Mercer County cup.  Pitt are you going to make an appearance this saturday?
Goodluck to all this weekend and stay healthy PAC.

Also, I have not heard any udates on the injured player from Alfred.  How is he doing now and has he been upgraded from his condition?

Many thanks should go out to those who have already donated and who continue to support this young man.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2006, 08:46:40 AM
AC,

I think your analysis of the Thiel game is very credible with the loss last weekend to WJ and Minton it could lead to a dissapointing second half of the season, but I truly believe this team has character and swagger after being led by the example of last year's team.  Tomcats might be sluggish at first but will eventually pound it out the rest of the way and earn a solid victory, and retain the Mercer County Cup.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 13, 2006, 09:01:34 AM
Grove City has been outscored by Thiel 54-9 over the last 2 seasons. Including 30-0 shutout last year.  Why does everybody seem to think that they will put up points on Thiel's D when they havent in the recent past.  Prediction-

Thiel- 28
GCC- 3

Westminster doesnt have the defense to stop W&J.  I think they have the offense to put one or two up........but it gets out of hand.

W&J- 42
Westmin- 14

Bethany run game is nearly non-existent, and this will hurt them against the ball control run oriented offense of the Yellow Jackets.  Waynesburg runs all over the Bison, keeping the ball away from the Bethany air attack.

Waynesburg- 34
Bethany- 14

And for the Thomas More game........Thomas More is looking to finish the season strong after this season has not lived up to their expectations so far.  Their D dominates and Offense puts up a few.

TMC-21
Frostburg- 10
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 13, 2006, 09:14:15 AM
To All...

I can see BC's first win in the PAC in 4 yrs over GC (which only CC predicted) didn't earn them much respect. I don't see BC beating WC but I don't think they will loose by 3 TDs as predicted.

I think a WC win at 28-21
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2006, 12:11:42 PM
WJPA's halftime show Saturday will include interviews with two fairly high-profile alums:

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell (W&J '81)
Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl (W&J '03)

Thanks for listening...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on October 13, 2006, 03:01:21 PM
South Willy -- I think that you're absolutely correct about the margin of victory in the WC - BC contest. How could two wins over mediocre opposition (GCC&TMC) have transformed Waynesburg into a rushing juggernaught in the minds of so many ? Weakly (sic) rushing totals for the Jackets have been -13, 78, 97 & 118 !
Only against lowly Grove City did they rush for respectable yardage, 234. Has Rick Shepas turned it around ??? What a metamorphosis that would be! I'm not convinced. Upset (or is it?) special of the week - Bethany 17 Waynesburg 10. Ouch!
Other winners; Thiel, W&J & Frostburg.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 13, 2006, 05:00:10 PM
PAC fan how is it that Bethany is now a juggernaut and a threat to win the conference and this game when they have beat lowly competition and been blown out by Thiel. Waynesburg ran all over mediocre GCC but Bethany won by 7 against them and couldnt run on them so now who is mediocre. Bethany is more respectable now under an actual coaching staff instead of the spare parts coaching staff of before. I think they are on the right track and will get more talent to compete over the years but they are still a pretender in the conference.  I think Waynesburg  has a lot more talent than Bethany and for that reason they will win this one easily.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 13, 2006, 10:37:04 PM
Wes

BC is certainly not a juggernaut but certainly neither is Waynesburg. Bethany beat GCC by 7 but gave them the ball inside the BC 25 twice and a late TD in the last minute when it didn't matter. WC beat them by 11. Since when is running for 142 yds not being able to run and that's plus 220 yds through the air compared to 64 for WC against GCC. Bethany is 2nd in TOffense and 1st in scoring while WC is last in Toffense and 6th in scoring.
BC got whipped by Thiel, WC got whipped by Wesley and Wooster and was beat by the lowly competition at home (Shenendoah). They beat TMC after their deflating OT loss to Thiel. Home field and homecoming weekend give WC a big edge but if they are looking ahead to Thiel and W & J, the upset is definitely possible.

 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 13, 2006, 11:26:49 PM
Great Stuff Guys!!!

CC,

No JV game is at 2 this weekend instead of 10 am.

Prediction Time:

Bethany - 24 @ Waynesburg - 42

Waynesburg seems to have finally got on track. Bethany is much improved this year and did get their first PAC win in a while, but Waynesburg rushing attack is way to much. 

Thiel -33 @ GCC-10

Thiel is hurting after the heart break loss but they will not let down as they battle for the Mercer Cup. GCC will have their hands full as the Tomcats look to take out some frustration. The Darkside returns to form and holds GCC under 250 yards and the offense clicks.

TMC-27 @ Frostburg-0

The Saints's offense caught up with the defense last week. They roll on the road thanks to the turnovers they force against Frostburg.

Westminster- 14 @ W&J - 52

Its simple math Homecoming + Luke + Commish = Victory. W&J rides the momentem of their come from behind win last week vs Thiel. The defense continues to make plays and the offense continues to roll as the solution is still not found on how to stop it.

Good Luck Everyone!!!

GO TOMCATS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 14, 2006, 12:29:51 AM
Bob,

WOW.  Nice guest list there....so the Pittsburgh mayor is a youngster eh?  I'd love to hear or see some links to his story, if you have them.

smbernacki,

Thats a great, and insightful first post.   Welcome to d3.com postpatterns.  I know I speak for the others here when I say, we look forward to future posts that show the same thought process.

PAC FAN,

It would be an upset. 


WHO DEY?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on October 14, 2006, 08:27:09 AM
Wes --  Bethany a juggernaut ? Did I say that ? Hardly ! But, it wouldn't take a juggernaut to beat Waynesburg. BTW, where was all that "talent" against Shenandoah ?!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2006, 08:57:24 AM
SaintsFan, the Mayor may be a "youngster" but he's no stranger to Pittsburgh and Allegheny County politics.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06245/718587-53.stm


As far as the Commissioner, how the world has changed since he last walked these streets.  And how the NFL has changed since his days at W&J....

I'm looking forward to the interviews and I'll try to post them to our website post-game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2006, 09:43:22 PM
Some solid outings by PAC teams today including the pounding of the titans at Cameron stadium with a 50- 7 drubbing.

Everyone was 4-0 this week except myself as TMC fought off a tough Frostburg State team out on the east coast today.  Great victory for Tmore also congrats on that accomplishment.  Beating them means more than just a moral victory for Thomas More, but I believe that is the first victory over frostburg in the last 3 years for any PAC team. 

Here are the overall standings:
                      Record       Winning Percentage
AC                    11-3                    .857
Cartel               14-8                    .636
Mantooth         20-11                  .645
Pitt                   16-11                  .592

Tomcats solid W for the Mercer County Cup!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on October 15, 2006, 09:41:35 AM
Cleveland -- Waynesburg beat Frostburg in '03 & '04. Hats off to the Yellow Jackets for the solid victory over Bethany. Next week at Greenville will tell the tale.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 15, 2006, 09:57:30 AM
Congrats to the winners of this weeks PAC games
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 16, 2006, 03:44:23 PM
Interview links from Saturday (as promised)(mp3 format):

Roger Goodell, NFL Commmissioner (http://www.wjpa.com/goodell.mp3)


Luke Ravenstahl, Mayor, City of Pittsburgh (http://www.wjpa.com/ravenstahl.mp3)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 16, 2006, 06:18:17 PM
Bob,

Great links and I listened to the full interviews.  I was really interested in hearing Luke's interview being that I played against him and that he is young in terms of being the mayor of a major city.  By the sounds of his voice and dedication to the job his youth is clearly an advantage and I hope he wins the elections which are coming up next year. 

Thanks again for the links...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on October 18, 2006, 01:30:15 PM
Hey, PAC posters, where is the chatter? Big game this weekend between Waynesburg and Thiel. While there are no post-season implications here, winner could be in the mix for PAC title, or at least a share of it. I am sure picks by CC and others will be forthcoming
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 18, 2006, 01:51:22 PM
I think Thiel fans are still shocked/ dissapointed after the fake reverse wide receiver "trick play" pass that got ran back for a TD against W&J and lost the game for Thiel.  Wish that play would have never happened.

As for this weeks game against Waynesburg, should be a good game.  Thiel O-Line is pretty banged up.  I dont see Waynesburg running the ball on Thiel, and I dont see Thiel putting many points on the board with a hurting O-line.  I am predicting a low scoring affair, but Thiel wins in the end because of their defense.

TC- 14
WC-7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 18, 2006, 04:02:17 PM
While that play may have cost Thiel the game, it wasn't run back for a touchdown.  Cherish stepped out of bounds and W&J settled for field goal, keeping the door open for the Tomcats attempts at last-minute heroics.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 18, 2006, 04:14:53 PM
Sorry, I knew that.....either way it was the play that cost the Tomcats the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 18, 2006, 09:24:12 PM
OT agtree with you whole heartedly on that play as I mentioned a few weeks back after game, no question Thiel wishes that they  had that play back and would of continued some pass and normal run game to control clock and keep WJ offense off field but that is football...breaks and no breaks....I look at WJ fumbles and own recovery's that would of been big time turn arounds if Thiel recovered.........but lets move on to this week against Waynesburg.
Weather should be good for game, mid 50's and sunny, fast track which favors team with speed in skiilled positions and run game of Wayneburg will be there. It's like...don't over pursue or under-estimate what speed can do for any team. 1-2 punch RB's can burn you from anywhere on the field and with some pass game this game will be very intersting.
I would think for sure stacking box will be TC game plan but they could be costly. As far as banged up O Line at Thiel their are player's that could be banged up at this time of season on both teams but will need to play with some discomfort with groin pulls, ham string pull, knee aches, ankle aches etc....
Waynesburg has some hopes for PAC Champiosnhip but must play good Thiel team at home before thinking about WJ.
Should be fun to watch. 2 parts of payback already completed this year with wins over Grove City, Thomas More, Thiel next and WJ afterwards which could be for PAC Chamionshiip... and also a strong comebck from team that started 0-3. I don't foresee Waynesburg thinking of WJ at all at this time though.
What if Thiel beat Waynebsurg, and then Waynesburg goes to WJ and teams all emd up tied for PAC Lead???
Predictions around the corner with the swammy!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 19, 2006, 08:45:43 AM
As Like the Swammy my picks will be in later tonight...Big game in Greenville as the Road to the PAC championship could take another turn and possibly setup for a big matchup next weekend.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 19, 2006, 07:21:03 PM
THURSDAY NIGHT TIME FOR PREDICTIONS.

Lets start In New Wilmington.

Bethany 35 @ Westminster 14

Westminster continues to show that they are the worst team in the conference as The Bison pass right over the Titans. TJ Parker scores two early and the game is over.

Huntingdon - 28 @ TMC 10

Dont know much about Huntingdon other than they have put up good fights with heavy weights Trinity(TX) and Wesley. Thats enough for me to crown them victors in this match up. TMC looks to have some O in Monty Collier but not enough.

GCC-14 @ W&J-47

The Swallow And Mendel show continues hopefully right into the playoffs. GCC always plays the Prez tough in GC but are typically blown out at Cameron stadium. Mendel puts up 150 and two TD's and Swallow throws 2 TD's. Kyle Sidebotham boots two FG and surpasses the Mayor. Another game that is over at half time.

SHOWDOWN SATURDAY

Waynesburg- 24 @ Thiel - 28

Waynesburg tries being the spoiler and continue on their Winning ways in the PAC but are denied in the closing minute as Blankenship fires a winning TD to Lascola. Abels and Daniel's running keep Waynesburg in the game as they will run on the Thiel D as it is fast but undersized. Blankenship throws for 250 and two Td's in this game and is the Game of the Wk MVP. After the game Rick Shepas explodes on air and says THE TOMCATS ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!! and we let em off the hook.

Good Luck to All

Go W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 20, 2006, 11:39:26 AM
Wes...

I hope your right and BC plays a good game at Westminster. Two starting receivers are out this week after injuries at Waynesburg. Bison had no answer for WC running game last week and WRs got knocked out early in the game. Parker will need to have a big game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 20, 2006, 11:47:14 AM
South

Not good news on the WR. On a good note The Titans dont run the ball so if you can stop the Pass you will be good to go. I still think Bethany will win as they are putting up more of a fight in the conference than Westminster. I have been surprised with Bethanys passing as i figured the new coach being a defensive guy would be more ball control but im a fan of the Air Out Style especially me being a W&J guy.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2006, 11:53:27 AM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on October 20, 2006, 11:47:14 AM...but im a fan of the Air Out Style especially me being a W&J guy.

More precisely, THAT (fan of Air Out) would make you a much more RECENT W&J guy....

If you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2006, 03:33:45 PM
Yeah maybe Coach Hallett will cancel the Thomas More game tonight before Huntingdon comes all the way up to Crestview Hills.  It sounds like they've played two teams pretty tough in losing efforts.

One thing you don't see is there will be quite a few alumni at this one as they've asked back most of the ex-players back for this one...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 20, 2006, 03:54:34 PM
Saints FAN sounds like i struck a nerve. Well i dont know much about Huntingdon and by looking at there schedule they have played alot tougher schedule then anyone in the PAC. Yes they LOST those games to tough opponents. But when you lose to Trinity(tx) by seven you obviously have some talent to play with those guys.  TMC is no where near as talented as Trinity however i dont think they should cancel the game as they have one thing that is going for them and that is a solid D. Also if you look at common opponents Huntingdon had a comparable score against Wesley to that of Waynesburg who beat TMC. So i opologize but that is what i based my opinion on. On any given Saturday you never know but i like to base my opinions on common opponents.

Bob to answer your question i am a recent president as in the 05 Semifinal 12 win school record team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 20, 2006, 03:56:29 PM
Sorry Bob i meant 04 team i graduated in 05.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2006, 04:19:24 PM
Wes,

Again, no nerve struck here.  Just wanted to point things out to a few "inside". 

No need to apologize....I like reading about the Armageddon of Thomas More football...no doubt others do too.

The Saints have alot to play for after dropping a game they should have won last season at Huntingdon.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 20, 2006, 04:37:49 PM
Wes..

I think the new coaching staff would love to have a balanced attack but the Oline plays 2 freshman and a soph and I just don't think they can out muscle most Ds. RBs are smallish and not a lot of speed. QB is consistent and BC's athletes are all at WR so 3-4 WR sets just work better. Much of the passing yardage are short horizontal passes with a WR running 8-10 yards.
Actually, #4 & #5 WR's starting this week are also good athletes so the air game should still function well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 20, 2006, 05:11:34 PM
South sounds like the sign of good coaching to me using the talent you have. Bethany while i was playing usually had good athletes like Will Anderson etc. The Lee regime seemed to run the program into the ground not sure why he was hired etc. Hopefully the W&J Bethany rivalry can be resparked as it was always a fun match up when the games were closer. Sounds like Weaver is a good fit.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 20, 2006, 05:28:43 PM
Wes 

Coach Weaver tells the recruits that he wants them to play a conference title game at least once while they play at Bethany. He has his work cut out for him over the next 3 years to see that goal for this years freshman. The staff is working hard on recruiting and we need to grab a few more guys from down here in South Florida. Plenty of talent down here but almost no smaller colleges in Florida play football.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 20, 2006, 11:52:01 PM
Better late Than never but here are the Cartels picks at 11:44 PM....

BC vs WC

Bisons offense rolls against the young and inexperienced Titans.  Veteran leadership at QB and WR with TJ parker is enough to carry the Bisons to victory as they learn how to win on the road. Parker 1 TD 121 recieving yards.....

BC 21
WC 7


Huntingdon vs Tmore:

I agree with Mantooth after reviewing their level of play has been impressive, but being on a Highschool field and on home turf, including the big win against Frostburg.  Tmore finds a way to win another this week by squeaking by with a victory
West 9 tackles FF
Carslisle 14 taclkes INT

Tmore 14
HDON  10

GCC vs WJ

Blowout fashion here at Cameron stadium back to back games.  Mendel and Swallow get the ball rolling early and often....Swallow 3 TD's  Mendel 2 TD rushing 1 recieving

WJ 52
GCC 14


Thiel vs Waynesburg

Darkside D is too much for the Yellow Jackets as the Play calling is held conservative and the Offense protects the ball and runs with intensity.  The Passing game is what helps save Thiel against a tough Yellow Jacket D with only one Senior on defense.   Blankenship 10 yard Scramble   Jon Adams  15 yard TD catch   Daniels 28 yard TD run  Abels 4 yard TD run   

Thiel 28
WBURG 20
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Hawks88 on October 21, 2006, 10:08:55 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2006, 04:19:24 PM

The Saints have alot to play for after dropping a game they should have won last season at Huntingdon.
Not sure what you mean here, SaintsFan. TMC didn't play Huntingdon last year. Year before last, TMC beat HC in Montgomery on the fluke two point conversion in OT.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2006, 05:18:56 PM
W&J rolls behind Mendel's five touchdowns.

Waynesburg jumps on, holds off Thiel.

Winners meet next Saturday for PAC crown at Cameron Stadium.

Let the noise begin!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2006, 07:19:29 PM
whoops my memory has screwed me again. 

Fluke?  Sounds kind of salty ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2006, 03:42:55 AM
No flukes today.  TMC played some defense (set a school record for rushing yards allowed) and put the rock up to the tune of 384 yards.  Maybe the Wash and Jeff game will be interesting to some in this board after all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 22, 2006, 04:34:55 AM
I think the next two weeks are going to be intersting for the Presidents. The D has been awfull all year. GCC had 250 yards at half time and they do not come close to TMC or Waynesburg talent wise. If teams have a run game and short passing game you are going to have success against the Pres. TMC and Waynesburg posses those two. Good news is i dont think anyone can stop the Presidents O so im looking for some shoot outs to end the year which W&J is usually successful in. Also both games are at Cameron a place where W&J doesnt lose.  I am impressed the way the Pres O has come together as i said at the beginning of the year that the Young QB was going to be a good one. We will see in the coming weeks. If TMC or Waynesburg beat the Pres its going to be a PACless playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on October 22, 2006, 09:13:25 AM
Wes, you're a bit too harsh on W&J's defence. Against Hanover  they were good. Against Westminster they were ok, thanks to big plays. Against Allegheny they were very good. And against Thiel they were good enough. I do agree with you that the defense has not found an answer to their opposition's short passes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 23, 2006, 09:00:08 AM
Waynesburg vs Thiel Notes:

Was at the game saturday and I came away impressed with the size and speed of waynesburg.  They have solid size all the way around on the Offensive and Defensive line.  That helped bully Thiel's smaller D around all day including three scores in the first quarter off their first three drives.  Truly dominated up front for pretty much the entire day.  The WR's are also very talented and have size.  Their QB throws a tight spiral but his recievers were going up and catching the ball at the highest point and coming down with a big catch. 

They have found a nice mix of Daniels and Abels for the entire game.  I would of liked to see more of Daniels late in the game, but I understand you want your bigger back pounding the ball up the middle for 4 yards everytime and Abels will do that for you.  Waynesburg started the game with Daniels and when they were in Goal line situations they brought in Abels, and also number 9 who is their fullback is a big young man.  They guy was blowing up LB's all day and quick enough to be blocking on their sweeps. 
Truly impressed with Waynesburg and their team as a whole.  They played solid football and their Defense is for real.  Anthony Taylor is always hawking around the ball and they play fundamentally sound football taking solid angles and steps to the ball. 

If anyone is goign to take out the Prez between TMore and Waynesburg it is goign to be Waynesburg.  They are just as big if not bigger than the Prez and have the speed at all skill positions to exploit the deep ball. 

QB has a tendency to throw the ball up while pressure is being applied, and that could lead to turnovers and an unsuccessful day for the Yellow Jackets in Cameron next week.

Although,  I have never been a fan of Shepas credit must be given when due for he and his staff have their players believing and playing together like champions.  If Waynesburg still had Dumm at QB they could probably be undefeated right now.  Shepas has his team playing good football at the right time of the season.

Look for the game of the year to be in Cameron this week.  Great work Yellow Jackets as you were the better team saturday.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 23, 2006, 09:07:37 AM
Denfd,

Mantooth is right and you also agree about not being able to defend the short passes, but WJ's passing defense is being exploited at a very high rate.  GCC had minus four rushing yards for the entire game against Thiel, and if Waynesburg is smart they will attack the short to midlevel zones in the passing game agaisnt WJ.

Waynesburg I believe even suprised Thiel as they passed most of the first half up and down the field on Thiel.  Mainly, short passes which they completed at a high effieciency, and they also mixed in the run game very nicely withi Daniels and Abels.  Thiel was not prepared for the passing game so early in the game, and Waynesburg put together long drives to put away the Tomcats 21- 0 in the first quarter.

If Waynesburg can execute the same way the did Saturday and play with intensity for 4 quarters it will be an exciting game in cameron.  WJ will continue to be the offensive juggernaut as they have been, but they will have trouble with Waynesburgs Defense which is big and Quick.  I know WJ's line is experenced and probably the best in the PAC, but Waynesburg is filling holes early combined with big guys up front it leads to small openings for Mendel.  Mendel will have a tough time all day to be honest with you, and they will need Swallow and the WR's to have a huge game which they are very capable of doing. 

Good luck next week PREZ and Yellow Jackets!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 23, 2006, 09:09:10 AM
South Willy,


What Happened this weekend to the Bison's?  Was it truly the injuries at WR that affected their game?  They were mandhandled easily by the Titans on saturday and I was a bit suprised by the final outcome.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 23, 2006, 12:22:43 PM
Poster's, Sorry the swammy was not in the house to make his last week's selections but that won't happen again with the biggest game of season in PAC coming up this weekend in Washington, that being said I guess you would of maybe thought Waynesburg was going to be his selection in upset win which all newspaper sports guys locally picked Thiel in a 6-0 vote.

CC, you really were in tune for the game cause your assessment was to the "T", liked all items that you mentioned. RB mix and QB good play calling.
WJ will see the films and see they have a battle upcoming. Coach Sirianni knows their is alot of talent at Waynesburg and 4 years ago at Waynesburg/WJ  reign ended.

I too....was at game Saturday and with my earlier article last week talking "speed" and how it makes a difference....well it was evident on Saturday and the 1-2 punch of the RB's Abels and Daniels  didn't get big long runs but their were  a couple of those that were a step from explosion but consistant the whole game.
Big lead and resillence of Jackets both sides of ball and wanting last years payback and now this is the 3rd of the 4 teams that beat them last year...TMC, Grove City, Thiel and next up WJ.
I can tell you the game 4 years ago when QB Edwards had dislocated his shoulder was a game...this one has the  makings of another one right around the corner.
Prez will be real stiff test for they always have good program, good athletes and always at home  the 12th player(referees) on field as did Thiel this past weekend with QB ruffing the passer calls when the O Lineman pushed the D lineman into QB late 3rd and 4th quarter's and the last Thiel TD pass was almost 2 yards out of bounds and the ref was watching the birds in trees when he made call. I wished I could of seen the one over again....startling it was.
I can rememeber the famous huddle three years ago at Cameron when they pow-poweed in middle of field and the call ended up going the Prez's way on a 35-31 win there. 3 QB interceptions on Dumm killed them that day but it  still went down to final series  Last year it was also good game until Krepps when to the house on punt return to pad lead nicely
I know Coaching staff of Jackets will have them so sky high and also know that another PAC crown is up for grabs.
Who will shine? Who won't? Defense or Offense? Skilled player's? QB's
I already know ..........but as week goes by the Swammy will better assess the game that which I wished started in 15 minutes.
Gotta get on the Road................let the talk begin.........
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 24, 2006, 04:08:24 PM
Poster's???Is everyone out of town or studying hard for this week predictions on biggest game of season in PAC?

TMC starting to get things clicking....running D is always a test for opposing Run game.
Westminster showed big numbers last week and really steam rolled Bethany...to alot of folks surprise including Swammy's.
Grove City moved ball good against WJ but then the bottom fell out in 2nd quarter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 24, 2006, 06:22:01 PM
AC,

About GCC, usually with their wing T it will take one half for a team to start to reconize the plays and make the proper adjustments.  The Wing T is effective in the first half but usually the coaches can make the adjustments from viewing whats going on above. 

You can practice like crazy for the wing T but the practice squads just are not going to be effective and as fluid as a team who has been running the same plays for the last 15 weeks.  So it takes time to adjust to the timing and deception of the GCC wing T, and at halftime you can key in on where the Oline are going on certain plays, such as pulling and who they attempt to block in their schemes. 

All teams have tendencies and you can key in on those usually at halftime to make the adjustments.  Thats what WJ did and they won easily in the second half.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 24, 2006, 06:30:30 PM
AC,

I was also surpised by the score of the BC vs WC game this weekend and alot had to do with the fact that Bethany faced adversity for the first time all season with their depth and talent at WR gone due to injury.  Including a few pieces on the Oline from what I have heard.  With that in mind WC was able to double team and probably favor their zone defense in the secondary towards the side that Parker was on all day. 

Is WC starting to makes some noise yes, and Hand probably has that team going in the right direction for next year but they will be continue to have struggles with such a young team.  Tomcats started this way in 2001 and it has paid dividends for them in the future, and Coach Hand can have the same success in the future.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 24, 2006, 06:34:33 PM
Big Game this Saturday at Cameron Field

Does anyone have access to seeing the how these two teams stack up with their Olines and Dlines to see how they matchup.

Bob you might be able to help out in supplying the info for the WJ O and D lines.  Just to give the fans an idea of the comparisons up front and help predict who will the battles of upfront.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 24, 2006, 07:29:10 PM
Cartel a little info on the o line.

Well W&J has Chris Teter and Chris Hickey on the left side and they are both All Americans and 3 year starters so i like that match up. Teter i am sure will draw Czerwein from Waynesburg who is a great d lineman who started as a freshman when i played.Dave Bucar is a decent center who is on the way to being really good as he is only a sophmore.  Matt Houy is from a very good Gateway high school team and very good as just a sophmore and probably the biggest lineman up front. Eric Sibenac rounds out the line and he is the scrappy player not blessed with size and athletiscm but finds a way to get the job done on a high level. I would say they average a good 270 across the board. Coach Young works these guys tails off and they are always ready to play. I like them in this match up. Question to Waynesburgers do they still run a 3-4 D or has that changed with the new staff as the 3-4 usually didnt allow us to run the ball but we could pass all day. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2006, 08:58:56 PM
W&J's offensive line:

Chris Teter    Chris Hickey   Dave Bucar     Matt Houy      Eric Sibenac
6-2, 280  sr   6-0, 280  sr    6-0, 260  so   6-2, 290  so    6-1, 275  jr
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 24, 2006, 08:59:23 PM
Wes, nice assessment on O-line, Yes, got some size and good bit of experience to bring to game, defintely the strength of the Prez team....just creating seams for slash RB to hit hole and get to linebacker for nice gain...that will be tested by either 3-4 or 4-3 which they both play decently or have gotten alot better over last few weeks for sure. Speed may be key here as I stree that here too.in addition to skilled player's RB's and Wideouts.  Czerwein is an excellet d-lineman....just doesn't quit and other player's feed off him and Linebackers are under-rated. alll 3 are players  bring differnt peices to Defense.
O- Line  for Jackets is young but has really strted to jell but with the folks that have to block for,....things are just make inital block and go get someone else cause the RB's are by real quick while looking for next hole and when seam is there bye bye...no question....two different runner;s that can break one on any play. QB starting to feel more confident in passing game in short, middle and heave deep when needed.  If this piece of offense gets rolling the RB's will get good gains each time and when you over-play it will hurt you.
Kicking game is pretty equal if things get down to filed goals but....they won't happen.
Thinsg starting to heat up.
CC
Agree with you read on wing-t and how adjustments can be made and can halt things rather quickly...but brusing backs at GC are not speed and vison backs like  Waynesburg...at first game of season against Salisbury proved that things can happen if O-line creates even thei smallest hole and with brusier FB Davis laucning people into space as he did last week reading his block and hitting hole for nice yardage is how the RB 's feed of hm his key blocks but also can go around it before the block is made as well
Conditioning will be big in this game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 24, 2006, 09:42:26 PM
Hey Cartel,

I wasn't at the TC vs WC game so let me ask how was Waynesburg able to run the ball as effectively as they did against the Darkside D.  I think you or someone else mentioned that WC had a young O-line, and if that's true it shocks me even more considering Thiel's D-line has alot of experience.  The past two years Thiel's run defense has been extraordinary, but the last two years WC has been able to run on them.  Last year I know they were missing a few key players on defense, including their defensive captain and leading tackler Tommy Woz, but what do you think happened this year.  Daniels and Abels are good, but we shut them down and I mean Shut Them Down in 04'  with a defensive unit not nearly as technically sound or consistent as this or last years defense.

P.S 
There is no doubt in my mind that Thiel will bounce back!!!
#90 Tomcat 4 Life
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 24, 2006, 10:53:10 PM
mantooth AC and Bob great stuff and apprecate the info on the Lines, players, and the schemes.

WJ has probably the strongest and biggest line in the PAC but Waynesburg will provide a punch in the mouth as they were ready to brawl with the Tomcats with the pregame scuffle that almost took place and escalated.  Will be interesting and any stats on the Yellow Jackest oline would still be appreciated.


Darkside90 it is always a pleasure to hear from you my friend!  Hope all is well DOC! 

About the game last weekend I could write a book about what I thought happened, but ill start with this.  The yellow Jackets came out with the intensity and stuffed it down our throats for the first three drives.  Not just 5 or 7 play drives but 10  12 and 14 play drives covering the length of the field. 
Thiel seemed to be playing in slow motion and not with the pregame intensity that was shown when the pregame scuffle happened.  Rossi was going nuts on the sidelines trying to get his players to stuff gaps and make plays, but it just wasn't happening.  They were bigger, stronger, and more physical than the Tomcats D.  Now you might say that hasn't slowed us down in the past what happened?  Coupled with playing in slowmotion and not getting 11 blue jerseys to the ball was the problem.  There were a few players that I would love to single out and say was putting forth the energy, but that wouldnt't be fair to the rest of the Defense that has always been strong for the Tomcats through the rebuilding years. 

They were bigger, stronger, more physical, and playing with the intensity needed to open gaps and holes and their backs who are very quick and strong hit them hard.  Linebackers weren't there to make plays or would get pushed out of the play by the guards or TE's. 

Darkside90 I have never seen a team move the ball 3 consecutive drives on the Tomcats that were 10 or more plays and converted on atleast 7 3rd downs in those 3 drives to keep those drives alive.  Just incredible they were flawless and the Tomcats couldn't do anything to stop it.

We needed #90, #93, #94 and than it would of been a game!  Hope all is well my friend and that this helps!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 24, 2006, 11:01:57 PM
AC,

Czerwin has my vote for best D-lineman in the PAC and the Yellow Jackets truly do feed off of his intensity and playmaking abilities.  If he can get his swagger goign early and often agains the Prez it will be a long day for Mr. Swallow at QB.  Question is what type of schemes will the Jackets coaching staff come up to free him up more often and make plays? 

I agree with you that the Yellow Jacket D has multiple looks and it makes it harder for an offense to prepare for all the different looks, but with the athleticism on both sides of the ball its going to be tough to move the ball on the Yellow Jackets D. 

When I saw the pregame trash talking going on i figured typical Yellow Jackets and Tomcats, but one there for sure was your guys backed it up! 

Shepas has his guys playing their best football of the year at the right time of the season.  If not for the losses at Shenadoah and Huntingdon Waynesburg is sitting pretty starting to take a peek at possibly being playoff bound with a victory this saturday.  And if they would of executed like they did against Thiel they win those two games hands down.

Lastly,  I still am not a Shepas Fan.....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 25, 2006, 09:00:47 AM
CC
Your synopsis again was right on the money....the pregame scuffle in endzone set such a great tone before first snap and I have never seen the Jackets so fired up on side line in the 4 years I have been big fan/spectator of the team since my move into Waynesburg land. the first quarter was without question a master piece but if you think of last years game it was also 21-0 when RB had to leave game at beginning of 2nd quarter due to leg cramps after gaining+100 in first quarter. Thiels big game players last year were difference in them getting back into game with QB and Chambers putting on clinic at throw and catch and then run. Two toally different teams from year ago. Jackets were just controlling line of scrimmage last week and when that happens with good backs you can get the 8-10-12 play drives.
Let's get to O Line of Jackets...average 250 up front, two seniors are inside guards who have quick feet and can get out  to pull for sweep plays or counter's. Freshman big at 290 at Right tackle can move you with power...center at 265 takes up some room and has good blocking ability and LT plays at 230 but also is used as Tight End to with 87 Wright who has strong desire to make plays. Yes.....no All American accolades from any of them but they are really playing as a unit and are strong young men with one thing oin mind right now.
Prez has some experience in the O line but Jackets strength is they have 3 of 4 D-line back from last year with Czerwien leading the way.
Member last years game when he was up against #70 from Prez and speed was too much where he went inside arounnd and occassionally tried going through. Line backing crew really playing unit ball, with #10 Steele making big hits and good plays all season, 49 and 47 good coverage people in flats bu sure know how to get in back field pressuring QB.
DBacks got alot of good looks last week from Thiel for they had to go to passing game down big early and came up with some big picks did #8 Taylor. #2 Plays Safety alot like Cherish from WJ cause they can both make big hitting plays and cover field well.
No question, Prez will need to control line of scrimmage with run game and keep Jackets offense off the  field and try and get early lead. If the run game does not click for Prez....Wideouts of Prez are all real good with M,cCafferty big play guy on team. Likes slant and hitch and go routes. QB will be running for whatever opening he can get from swarming D of Jackets. On the other side of ball, Jackets backs just too talented with O Line opening seems but FB lead blocks are crushing as I saw #1-Thiel CB  last week go flying 5 yards in air from lead sweep block. At 235 pounds and solid I wouldn't want that task of him coming at you. Backs have real nice speed and sure look for the next hole real quickly. Explosion is the word the descibes them when they hit hole that does have a gap and then sit back and watch what happens next.
This should be such a great game to watch, as a fan...can you imagine the , the players feelings.....excitement with PAC title on Line?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 25, 2006, 11:43:31 AM
AC,

Great assesments and i agree with you that your fullback last saturday was just bullying the Thiel CB's and LB's around the field and your attesment to him blowing up our corner a few yards deep is sound.  The fullback was a difference maker in the game and to be honest was something Thiel didn't utilize or have in their game on Saturday.  Their fullback was in for the very first play of the game and after that play there wasn't a fullback in any more of Thiel's offensive plays.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 25, 2006, 06:39:57 PM
From the sounds of things from AC and Cleveland i just hope W&J can survive the game let alone win it. W&J apparently is facing a early 90's version of The Nebraska Cornhuskers Not the Waynesburg Yellow(Orange)Jackets.  ;D all in fun guys predictions tommorrow.

Good to See Darkside 90 in the posting world. Very very good d lineman for the Tomcats.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 25, 2006, 08:59:52 PM
Wes,

Funny you should joke around about the cornhuskers, but seeing the Yellow Jackets in all White and orange.  The Yellow Jackets actually looked like a big 12 rival of the Cornhuskers in being the Texas Longhorns. 

All joking aside the Prez being at home need to bring their intensity and keep that level of play throughout the game.  Its going to be a tremendous game in Cameron, and last time there was a big conference game with the PAC championship on the line at Cameron WJ lost in OT 38-35.  WJ held the total yards edge 398 to 365, but ultimately it was the 5 INT's that kept Thiel in the ball game including the final one in Over time to secure the victory for the Tomcats.

Game of the Year in Cameron hopefully....Predictions still to come....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 26, 2006, 01:41:51 AM
There have been lots of the games of the century for W&J. I can remember the game of the century already this year @ Thiel which W&J won and were outgained. I can remember being at Thiel in 04 for the shot in the foot game that was supposed to be the game of the century. Wayneburg that same year  In 01 it was 6-0 vs 6-0 as Bethany was shelled 35-14.  W&J will be fired up for Waynesburg no matter what with the history in that last few years. It is going to be a good one that i will be attending. Interesting topic for discussion which stud d lineman shows up Czerwein or Broadland. That is going to be the difference. W&J has been actually good against the run this year albeit the Salisbury game but they do run a triple option scheme that is tough to replicate in practice. The thing that they have been awful for about 3 years now is the short pass game. I can remember Jeff Dumm in 04 throwing bubble screen after screen and Thiel doing the same this year. I look for Waynesburg to do the same but maybe get their backs on the short passes. Anyway more to come tomm with predictions.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 26, 2006, 02:31:54 PM
SAD story from the Sharon newspaper:

http://www.sharonherald.com/local/local_story_294215329.html
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on October 26, 2006, 02:46:36 PM
Looks like Darious's football career at Thiel is over.......its too bad he's such a talented kid.  Hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 26, 2006, 06:58:45 PM
Thurs night Prediction time. Really need to rebound after i was 1-4 last wk i beleive. This weekend questions will be answered. Sounds like the disappointing season for the Tomcats is continuing.

Bethany- 7 @ TMC-38

TMC continues to roll up to next weeks showdown. Collier runs for 110 and Stellman throws for 250 and 3 TD's.

Westminster - 14 @ Frostburg - 27

Franz throws for good yardage but Frostburg is too much and they pull this one out.

Rochester - 28 @ GCC-14

Rochester comes on the New turf and waltzs right back off of it with a win.

AND NOW DRUM ROLL PLEASE...........THE GAME OF THE CENTURY AND SUPER BOWL all rolled into one.

Waynesburg -27 @ W&J- 38

Shootout is one word to describe this matchup. Abels and Daniels held mostly in check in the run game as they combine for 110 yards. But Tress Cobb throws the ball 35 times and keeps them in the game. Abels and Daniels both have 5 receptions. Mendel also held in check as he has 80 yards and a TD. Difference is the young W&J QB(Swallow) who has grown up and he throws for 275 and 3 TD's one to Ravida and two to Mcafferty. Cherish picks one off that gives W&J the cushion they need to pull off the V.

Good Luck to All

Go W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2006, 04:02:55 PM
Bob,

Definetly a sad story for the those two and their families and the extended family of the Thiel Football Team.  I have heard rumors for quite sometime about this and why Thompson was not in the lineup or present for last weeks game, but with all said he is a very talented athlete who is a bright young man and I wish the best for him at this time. 

This does not help the recruiting aspect with this type of bad press in the news, and with the Tomcats graduating a bulk of their starters the last few years these new recruits are needed to fill in. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2006, 04:24:23 PM
Prediction Friday:

Bethany vs TMC

T-M-C its dynamite!  TMC takes this victory home with a solid outing as always from the Defense and the Offense is on track as the Bisons just do not have the defensive playmakers or the run stoppers up front.  Gets out of hand and ugly early and often.

TMC 35
Bethany 7

WC vs Frostburg

Westminster too young and small to take on the likes of Frostburg. 

F'Burg 21
WC 7

Rochester takes care of the Wing T in the second half to earn a comeback victory over the Didonato lead Wolverines.  They need Mario Manningham of Michigan to catch the balls Didonato throws.

Chester 28
GCC  21


Waynesburg vs WJ         PAC game of the year.....
As Mantooth Said we are going to need a drum roll for this one....

Swallow finds the defense is harder to pick away at than Thiel's Defense but does hook up for a couple of scores.  The run game for WJ is they key for this years squad and mendel does his part in rushing for over 80 yards and a score also in this contest.  The big question is can the Waynesburg D have enough of an effective to beat the Prez. 
As opposite of the Cherish prediction I have to go with Anthony Taylor as the best ahtlete in the Yellow Jackest defense who will have a big play to turn the tide.

Daniels and Abels are effective early but eventually the passing game of Waynesburg is going to have to be dead on in order to have success on the ground.  WJ has the athletes and also is able to not give up the big play, but they will give yards but not the deep ball.  WJ earns redemption and the right to respresent the PAC in the playoffs with a hard fought victory.  The Jackets hang tight but Mendel is the X factor and the experience up front for WJ will give them the W.  PREZ!!!!!!! Kyle Sidebotham from Cuy Falls strokes a field goal from 42 yards out to put the icing on the cake.  Get the champaign flowing in Washington!

Final Score

WJ 31
Waynesburg 24
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on October 27, 2006, 11:58:19 PM
Everyone keeps saying that Grove City is a wing-T team. They still run some Wing-T stuff, but the Wolverines are probably closer to a spread team than a classic Wing-T. Grove City is using the shotgun about 75 percent of the time.

Grove City still shows some Wing-T/double slot looks at times but gone are the days of the buck trap/buck sweep/waggle as staple plays.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 28, 2006, 02:46:42 AM
Rabriggs a fan of the around the region peices you write. Im glad GCC has moved to the modern world of offense finally if only they could find some athletes to surround Didinato. I think they need to get Ian Tobin some more carries he is a good back that is under utilized.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 28, 2006, 09:34:47 AM
Gameday Saturday!!

The teams are most likely having breakfast or starting to leave their respective schools or hotel.  Goodluck to everyone today and stay healthy PAC.

Rabriggs
Great pieces you write for the region but a few of them have been a little later than usual in the last few weeks.   Only Kidding, as an SID and a sports writer for D3 its hard to keep up with that two, especially with all the sports teams that GCC has to offer in the Fall, Winter, and Spring, but great pieces about the Great Lakes Region.

GCC may be starting to spread out their offense and open up the field for their taleneted QB, but they will always be historically known for the Wing T, and of course R.J. Bowers. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 28, 2006, 09:57:57 AM
Here are the rankings relased by the NCAA...


The Prez need thi sgame without a doubt....Question about CMU ranked very highly in this Poll but have they played any tough games?  With an independent schedule you have the ability to not play the best around.  I am not saying that is the case with CMU, but have they played any talent this year, and their final game of the year is against Thiel at Greenville.  Tomcats could be playing the spoiler...

12- 29 has been the record of CMU's oppenents thus far this year...  including wins over Westminster, GCC, Franklin and marshall, Hiram, and Colorado College.  Their toughest games of their coemes against UAA foe Washington U whose 5-3 and Thiel who is 4-4.  Included in CMU's schedule also includes Bethany.  Not a very good strength of schedule, but their unblemished record is certainly helping their case to be ranked as high as they are in the poll.    WJ would take care of CMU with no problem, and Thiel will actually have a chance to.
South
1. Wesley 4-0 7-0, 12.000
2. Christopher Newport 6-0 6-1, 10.500
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-1 6-1, 12.000
4. Trinity (Texas) 6-1 6-1, 9.857
5. Carnegie Mellon 6-0 7-0, 9.500
6. Hardin-Simmons 5-1 5-1, 10.143
7. Dickinson 6-1 6-1, 9.857
8. Washington and Jefferson 5-1 6-1, 9.333
9. Washington and Lee 6-1 6-1, 8.714
10. Averett 5-2 5-2, 9.000
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 28, 2006, 02:37:11 PM
14-3 W&J at Halftime. Mendel over a hundred and a TD. Abels and Daniels held in check. Swallow efficient. Hopefully game stays that way. Any updates on other PAC games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 28, 2006, 04:04:38 PM
Game Over W&J - 30 Waynesburg-3

The unstoppable JUGGERNAUT of Waynesburg comes to a abrupt end.

W&J only threw the ball 7 times and Mendel ran over and through the Jacket D for about 150. Abels and Daniels shut down for 109 total.

Broadland is the D lineman that shows up with a pick six.

Another D lineman Jeff Ernst gets a pick six to end the game.

Big Victory setting up another good one next weekend with TMC

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 28, 2006, 04:31:29 PM
Now THAT is how you handle a PAC opponent.

Very solid performance in the conditions today.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 28, 2006, 04:37:14 PM
Couldnt agree with you more burghboy. I didnt get a chance to attend today but listened on the radio and it was a dominating performance by the entire team. This team is streaking right now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2006, 05:34:54 PM
Quote from: CNULifer on October 06, 2006, 11:04:06 PM
...I know from past experience that your W&J teams have had great offenses.  maybe you should try some D.

CNULifer might want to try a little D of his own.  Final score (thanks nnasid):

North Carolina Wesleyan 46, CNU 34
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Hampton U SID on October 28, 2006, 05:40:12 PM
Bob...the CNU game was at Rocky Mount, NC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2006, 05:50:13 PM
It's been several years since we've seen THAT kind of defensive performance from the Presidents against a game opponent.

Abels & Daniels combined for 109 yards on 28 carries (3.9 ave) and no scores.

Waynesburg held to 4 first downs in second half, two of them by penalty and both after game was 24-3.

Weather limited both teams hopes for any kind of a pass game, but what pass game there was, W&J won.  Swallow 7-8 in first half for 73 yards and 1 score.

Cobb was 7-15 for 53 yards, but two picks, one returned for score.

This is the defense that the offense has been looking for...

D-line Russ Chase out with likely broken leg, suffered on fourth play of the game.

Dan Brodland & Jeff Ernst return picks for tds!

Oh, by the way, Ryan Mendel tops the 1,000 yard mark with 154 on career-high 35 carries and 1 score.

Kyle Sidebotham boots career-long 42-yard field goal in second half.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 29, 2006, 02:29:42 AM
Looks like the PAC is back in the proper hands in Washington with the win today and TMC loss to Bethany. Looks like TMC overlooked the Bison. Hopefully W&J doesnt get spoiled by either one of these to finish the season. I dont beleive they will and will be hopefully hosting a playoff game maybe against CMU.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 29, 2006, 03:50:58 AM
W&J may be the team CMU wants to play first with all the possible games CMU could be put in as someone pointed out on another board that their "geographic flexibility" allows them to be moved around a bit.  I think they would rather see W&J than say a Mt. Union or a Capital.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2006, 07:56:40 AM
BDTartan & Wes,

W&J HOST CMU???

CMU would be 10-0, W&J 9-1.

The Tartans, I believe, would have a higher QOWI than the Presidents.

Not that I'd lobby against playing at Cameron, mind you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2006, 09:39:45 AM
Bob,

Kyle Sidebotham from Cuy Falls strokes a field goal from 42 yards out to put the icing on the cake.  Get the champaign flowing in Washington!


I liked the highlights from the game and for some odd reason my prediction of Kyle's field goal was a one in a million guess and predicted.  Kind of crazy!


Mendel topped my prediciton by going for 182 yards and a score.  Impressive performance for the senior. 

I have to repeat this again if WJ plays CMU in the first round they will roll.  CMU's victories and strength of schedule have been weak.  CMU could be upset at the end of the year by a Tomcats team who wil be searching to find an identity going into next year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 29, 2006, 02:12:21 PM
Repeat what you have to, but the Tartans may "want" you in the first round.  I don't care either way.  It's just a matter of going out and doing what you're taught to do.  If one team is better than the other than so be it.  Let em' settle it on the field.  I am sure your assessment would have held true for the USC Trojans yesterday, but gee, they got knocked off by a team who isn't as good as them.  Any given Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2006, 08:21:07 PM
BDTartan,

I understand your analogy of playing the game on paper as opposed to on the field.  ALA USC...

But lets also get one thing straight...

To draw any comparison from D3 to the D1 level and the PAC 10 overall wealth of talent is unsubstantial.  Also the Trojans had almost lost their last 3 games and snuck out wins by a margin of less than 7 ppg.  THey were due for a loss and making fundamental mistakes.

The Tartans may hope to play WJ in the first round as opposed to MUC or Capital, but looking back at the strength of schedule once again 12-29 for a winning percentage of .413.  You will make the playoffs regardless if you lose one out of the next two games, and if your also fortenate enough in your minds to play the Prez at Cameron you will not be able to hang with the Prez. 

In Fact, at 500 the Tomcats, trying to find their identity will give you a game at Alumni Stadium. 

This weekend you squeeked by Washington (10-7) in OT  who is now 5-4, and their ovreall conference schedule winning and losing percentage is 32-34 (not including CMU).

They were slaughtered by Wheaton (8-1) and overwhelmed by North Central (6-2).

Lastly,
Looking at the teams in the UAA the records are horrendous, and CMU has done a terrific job in going from being picked third in the conference to owning sole possesion of first place.  But you have not played anyone yet and you have been protected by a weak schedule.  You went through some adversity this weekend in Overtime, but when you start playing teams who are bigger, faster, and stronger than you... WJ MUC Capital, Wesley, Bridgewater, Saslibury, CNU, and Mary Hardin-Baylor CMU will be sent home first week of the playoffs.

Enjoy it now, but if you want to come into this room spouting about old cliches about "thats why the games are played on paper"  I can't wait until CMU starts  playing some playoff caliber teams, and than hear what you have to say about the losses you will have.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 29, 2006, 08:29:44 PM
Point taken, but I was merely saying that CMU would feel much better about their chances play your Presidents than playing a top 10 team.  The USC game was something I threw in to make a point that on any given day a weaker team can rise above a stronger team.  I know that the Tartans do not play a strong schedule, but they played the same schedule last year minus Westminster replacing John Hopkins and they went 5-5.  They are a much better team this year.  I know it was just a scrimmage and they probably didn't keep score, but the Tartans did scrimmage Waynesburg at the beginning of the season and from what I was told, they would have handled Waynesburg as easily as W&J did.  How well is your Presidents' rush defense??  If CMU can control the ball and score effectively with their grind it out running game then I would say they stand a chance of NOT getting rolled over by W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2006, 08:44:03 PM
Tartan,

I must have done a solid job in having you think the Prez are my team. 

I am a Thiel Football Alumn and have always despised the Prez, but you can gurantee I respect the Prez and look forward to them respresenting the PAC well in the Playoffs. 

How well is the Rush defense at WJ?  You will have to ask Wes Mantooth or Bob Gregg and they could give you the scoop.  Now if you wanted to know about Thiel's rush defense I could actually offer an opinon and some facts there. 

From the conversations here and watching the Prez battle the Tomcats in Greenville.  The Prez have size and an athletic front four that can put pressure on a QB but also limit the rushing yards in a game.  From what Mantooth has stated it seems as if the Pass has been their achillies heel all year, and Thiel was able to exploit the Prez through the Air only. 

Mantooth any predictions or information regarding the front four your help would be appreciated...
That's why I did say the Tomcats will give CMU a game in Greenville.  WJ is a well respected foe and their coaching staff and players are well rounded solid individuals.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 29, 2006, 08:55:43 PM
My bad for assuming you were a Prez fan.  I wasn't knocking any team.  In fact I just wanted to make it clear that CMU actually has some talent.  They didn't hit their 280 yd. avg on the ground against WUStL, but they did get 130 when WUStL was only giving up about 40.  I was also trying to say that the Tartans are happy to be in this position and would probably like to make the most out of it, so if that means crossing their fingers for a first round game against W&J then that's what they'll do.  I don't know anymore, I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was just tried of people scoffing at what the Tartans have done.  Believe me, I want them to play a tougher schedule because not having enough teams in the UAA and playing a weak schedule pretty much sets them up to have to go 10-0 to make the post-season.

By the way, I expect the CMU/Thiel game to be no less exciting than last years wild overtime game.

I am also a bit bored and the only person I have to talk to on the UAA board is cwru70.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2006, 09:08:13 PM
Tartan,

Bordem has set in for you i am sure, but CMU should truly consider moving to the PAC.  Ideal location for you to continue to recruit strong and also with all the memebers of the PAC for traveling.  It makes sense and I hope CMU will take a strong look at the possiblity with the PAC adding a few more teams to the picture in football next year. 

You have talent over there no doubt, and I will also be looking forward to the Matchup with the Tomcats in Greenville.  The strength of schedule hurts the Tartans immensly and if you look in the South Region Fan poll you can talk up the Tartans some more there also, but some of the voters from the Fan Poll there arent thrilled with the level of competition either.  Good Points and well taken.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 29, 2006, 09:11:23 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2006, 09:08:13 PM
Tartan,

Bordem has set in for you i am sure, but CMU should truly consider moving to the PAC.  Ideal location for you to continue to recruit strong and also with all the memebers of the PAC for traveling.  It makes sense and I hope CMU will take a strong look at the possiblity with the PAC adding a few more teams to the picture in football next year. 


When were Carnegie or Mellon president?   :D

Seriously, the UAA is an association of serious research institutions that also happen to offer Division III athletics.  I don't see CMU or any of the other UAA members leaving the conference any time soon. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 29, 2006, 09:16:43 PM
I doubt any of the four teams will leave anytime soon either. 

I believe CMU was in the PAC for a while as it states in their programs that they were PAC Co-Champs in 1989.

Oh, I am sure people will bash CMU's weak schedule, but like I said, I am happy as a Tartan fan to be conference champs, undefeated, and competing for a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 29, 2006, 09:18:05 PM
Another interesting note, CMU does play 3 or 4 PAC teams, so your suggestion isn't a bad one.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2006, 10:45:50 PM
CMU was in the Presidents Athletic Conference for quite some time.

They left the conferernce around 1989, stating that "They were heading in a different direction."  The Tartans haven't sniffed the playoffs since. 

And for several years, when the NCAA tournament was announced on a conference call, several CMU people used to get on and whine (very unbecoming) about it.  Finally, the chair of the Division III Football Committee told the CMU complainers that all they had to do to get in was beat W&J.  The Tartan reps haven't been on the conference call since.

I'm not a W&J alum, though I do root for the Presidents.  What those of us around the program find interesting is CMU's ability to schedule Grove City, Thiel and Bethany every year in football, and their willingness to play the Presidents in basketball but will not play the Red & Black in football.

Great rivalry, great crowds, great atmosphere.  Play the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 29, 2006, 10:53:53 PM
I don't know about all that.  This is only my second year following the Tartans as I have a brother playing for them.  i do feel like W&J is their best opportunity for a W in the playoffs considering their other likely opponents.  I am hoping that they schedule a little tougher opponent for their open date next year and the NCAC scheduling agreement helps all UAA teams out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2006, 11:27:10 PM
I'm in an interesting position, being close to the W&J program and having a genius brother who is a CMU alum.  We've had many a heated discussion regarding the Tartans' take-their-ball-and-go-home act in football.

He and I would love a W&J/CMU matchup, and we could only hope it would be as exciting as the 1987 PAC title-deciding contest between the two was.

Let's hope the Tartans and Presidents finish their business and get together down the road soon.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 30, 2006, 08:37:20 AM
WJ/Waynebsurg Recap:
Surprizingly not many items about other items that contributed to outcome:
but as expected WJ fans only see things their way.
1. Shields mugged 5,10, 15 yards down field by corner back when ball was picked near goal line in first quarter..., momentum play ...ref stared an watched and of course the no call like every Jacket fan thought would take place there that day was just the beginning.
2. 25 second clock goes on blink and out of no-where comes a 25 second delay call against Jackets when they had possession and on drive but move em back they go, no mo-mo today boys
3. Czerwien, Jackets DE was horsecallered and held so bad during game he had strangle marks on his neck after game.....it was so bad...that they had to move him to linebacker most of 3rd quarter and alot in 4th to keep him from being strangled to death so he could make plays. He hasn't been stopped in 3 years but miraculously he got held out today big time
4. WJ OL Chop blocks illegal that also was darn near the whole game, but do you think any would be called?....a injured person could run for 100+ yards if you have that detail going on. Oh, by the way Mendel 35 rushes on 154 yards maps out to be 4.4 average, Jackets had 4.0 average but Juggernaut Shepas, has the leading Rusher, Scorer and TD maker in school history of team on sidelines most of 4th quarter.......their isn't one Jacket fan that can ever understand that wonderful coaching decision but Abels is probably used to it by now... had to deal with that all 4 years there but amazinly put  up the number's he has I guess does say something? BUT with 8-9 guys in box did one outside sweep pitch get called whole game??
More nice play calling BUT WJ D did play well this day.
5. Two late hits when Wideout of Jackets caught ball and were on sideline and also one foot out of bounds did late hit call be made? Did expect to see flag Nope?
6. Botched puntpass for TD called back on Jackets, which does have some likely-hood of guy being downfield BUT wonder if that was a WJ play...Yepper TD it would be.
7. Films should probably be sent to NCAA.PAC President for review...cause line play -Strangling/Chop Blocks was not called and you can get away with alot when you do that kinda of  play...but if your playing down their you get away with it especially........................when
8) Alumni dropp a big wad in the bucket two weeks ago only to have it picked up this past Saturday by crew.
Interesting poster's, think about it!! I would of almost wished my jet plane was delayed 2 more hours so I wouldn't of had to see this all take place and just hear about it from all Jacket fans but not was the case.
9) If their is any post season play for WJ unless toe gets stubbed they sure hope it will first home game cause when they play elsewhere the dominant calls will be not there to rely on. 
AC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2006, 09:07:01 AM
Get your film, AC.  And watch the fourth play of the game, approximately 7 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, right around the home side hash marks.

Then, if you'd like to come back and talk about chop blocks, bring it on!

Otherwise, shut up!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 30, 2006, 10:26:10 AM
I can also remember a ball hitting a Waynesburg player on a punt return that was recovered by W&J that would have put the game away but the refs huddled and gave the ball to Waynesburg. AC i am disappointed as your comments sound like sore loser comments.  Mendel is the best back in the conference bar none. I can see if the game was 7-6 and those calls cost you the game. Holding and pass interference goes both ways in a game. But i am sure holding or pass interference had nothing to do with your Qb throwing INT to DT's for TD's when they were still in the game. Also for a bit of class, Waynesburg was going to attempt to stomp on the midfield logo but this was stopped by W&J and the refs in the pregame. It all goes back to Excuses are like(you fill it in) everyone has one. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 30, 2006, 12:24:02 PM
Truth Hurts uh.... Bobby Boy!!!
The person that never put a jock on in his life.
Go talk to the Alumni...........the Brinks Truck was sitting in front of the stadium. still from two weeks ago....................

No......I think little Bobby needs to shut up!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 30, 2006, 12:39:12 PM
Wessy My lost friend, no excuse. not sore loser...justa nother cheating episode down at Cameron .....very easily seen during game but those types of fans don't see the truth, Right Bobby Boy!??

Mendel  wishes he had abilility of other two running backs at Waynesburg....Wessy????Did he just come to WJ this year???Do you know that much?
I see the that Mendel has been in there 4 years , oops....Not one First Team All Conference yet???Or did you forget to look. Yeah....he was 3rd string RB there two years ago ...No college Records??
Abels...playing half the time is:
All time Scorer
All time Rushing Leader
All Time TD
Mendel..................NONE ......zippo!!!

You may want to get your pipe out and smoke that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 30, 2006, 01:01:48 PM
WOW,

I see some tempers flairing after W&J handled Waynesburg @ Cameron. Everyone who has seen a game at W&J knows they get the calls. However, I have also seen many other home teams get calls. No matter what level it seems like the team that is known for traditionally winning or the home team seems to get some calls. All and all most of the time its not going to have that big of a deal on a 27 pt game.

I would like to see CMU get involved in the PAC but I think it will not happen based on their academic standards. I know W&J is a very honorable school and I am not putting them down by any means so don't get your panties in a bunch. Allegheny would also make a lot of sense to join the PAC but the same thing comes up.

I hope that W&J will run the table and represent the PAC very well in the playoffs. Congrats on winning the title and good luck in the playoffs.

I am looking forward to seeing Thiel in action in one of their last two games. They are looking to stick together after some unfortunate happenings in Greenville. One thing I know for sure is that the coaching staff and adminstration at Thiel will not let this horrible circumstance ruin a program on the rise. They are  not meetting expectations this year but it is easy to fold the tent and harder to be winners. I know Coach Leip will take care of buisness this week and will look to play spoiler against CMU in Greenville the last week of the season.

Stick together Tomcats
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 30, 2006, 01:50:21 PM
AC i dont smoke but thanks anyways. Mendel last two years ran for 800 yards splitting time in a pass first system. When you have a WR core and Qb like in 04 and 05 you are going to throw the ball to them.

Abels in 03 W&J game 31-127
Abels in 04 W&j Game 9-42
Abels in 05 W&J game 17-82
Abels in 06 W&J game 14-57

That looks like one big game in 4 years against W&J. Arent big time backs supposed to have great games against great teams. No doubt about it he is good. But if he is as talented as you say why is he splitting time with Daniels.

Now there is one clear difference and that is this Freshman do not start at W&J where as Waynesburg they do. Thats why Mendel has only played three years. That is also why W&J  has the second most wins in NCAA football history , has won 18 of the last 20 conference championships, and plays into the playoffs every year and Waynesburg wines at home about what shouldve or couldve been. Maybe we will cheat into the playoffs next year too. Waynesburg has really fallen off the map after 03 and i dont see them getting any better after this year where i c a bright future for W&J and Thiel with people coming back.

30-3 is what it reads on the scoreboard.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 30, 2006, 02:03:46 PM
Cartel to help you out with your postings about CMU. I think W&j would handle CMU but they are not going to be playing in the playoffs there is to much going on in the next few weeks for that to happen. D line is about 240 across the board for W&J. Broadland is a beast this year where as before he got by with shear will this year he has the non stop motor to go along with size as he no longer weighs 240 more around 270. The last few years they have been pretty good against the run but struggled with Salisbury this year and Mary Hardin Baylor in 04 who runs the same triple option that CMU does. I think Salisbury is bigger and more physical and we all know UMHB is than CMU. Salisbury almost upset Wesley who is a top 5 team this week that should say something right there.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 30, 2006, 02:29:05 PM
Wes.............share the peace pipe with Bobby, he may take a puff...the playing time thing you would have to ask Coach on. that is a  mystery for sure.......it's like letting the other player's get a chance too cause they are paying tuition too.  4.5 average for each carries is plenty enough if used properly to get you first downs.
Hey, who knows...Coach is trying to show Ables that it takes two to dance and keeps fresh legs in game and with any injury other back needs to be ready and have playing experience which isn't a bad thing. Both backs bring different things to game.
Freshman can start anywhere if their good enough, Mt Union back last year....and many others so you should leave the story ending on who didn't start and who did as Freshman, Sophomore and who was PAC 1st team and who wasn't in year two?? year three???. These are awards voted on by Coach's. Stats prevail and tell the truth.
Hey, if he don't make PAC 1st team this year so be it....but he has records that will be long lasting there.
They best start worrying about TMC and Bethany let alone playoffs but 1 of 2 games are at home or Referee Stadium.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2006, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: AC24#724 on October 30, 2006, 12:24:02 PM
Truth Hurts uh.... Bobby Boy!!!
The person that never put a jock on in his life....

I never played football, if that's what you mean AC.

But I've been in the battle on another front.  I've put a jock, and I actually wore it where it belongs.

I'll just have to guess that either you didn't have access to the film that I referenced, didn't have a player to watch it on, or can't figure out how to turn it on.

There is holding in every single football game, from Pop Warner to the NFL.  Every game.

There is chopblocking in every single football game, from high school up.

There is downfield contact between receiver and defender in every game.  Period.

But from Saturday's game, here's the fact:
W&J's Russ Chase is the only victim of a chop block who couldn't play the rest of the game.  The only one.  Your DL might have strangle marks on his neck, but he never missed a down.  Your WR might feel like he was mugged, or hit late, or whatever, but he was able to play the rest of the game.  Russ Chase was chopped, AFTER the play, and is done for the year.

Oh, there was your starting quarterback who didn't have the opportunity to throw the game-ending interception because of a roughing the passer penalty.  I'll have to watch the film to see how late that hit was.

By the way, with less than a minute to go in a 24-3 loss, what exactly is the point of a multi-year starting quarterback dropping into his own end zone to pass?  Was there some hope that 53 yards passing in 59 minutes would all of a sudden become 142 yards and the score 24-10?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2006, 03:02:17 PM
Since you're smoking, AC, put these little tidbits into your pipe:


vs. W&J the last three years,  WC Ryan Abels, 191 yards, 1 touchdown.

vs. WC the last three years, W&J Ryan Mendel, 248 yards, 1 touchdown.

Oh, and by the way:

Saturday penalty yards...W&J 50, Waynesburg 43


I forgot this last one:

All-time series, W&J 31, Waynesburg 3
Since WC joined PAC, W&J 15, WC 1

I guess the League has allowed the Presidents to host 15 of the 16 meetings, eh?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on October 30, 2006, 04:28:28 PM
BG
Any many times were the Brink trucks outside stadium for it was ll fixeroo!!!
Just so happens big times guys were in stands and refs wanted to make sure their were no obstacles to get in their way wioth score outcome
Abels 3 First Team Pac's
Mendel None but maybe a second vote last year

Abels 3 Records at College
Mendel -None
Abels, More Rushing Yards, TD's and Scoring...it appears that this might be in Spanish to you but it is English Bobby Boy!
Don't forget it, penaly yards lasty week were all opportune times but if your hold the WHOLE game and nothing gets called how could you possiblyu lose, you just don't get it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 30, 2006, 04:42:50 PM
Don't forget it, penaly yards lasty week were all opportune times but if your hold the WHOLE game and nothing gets called how could you possiblyu lose, you just don't get it.

AC Maybe you should learn how to spell or get some stress relief as you are little to angry to post.

Ryan Mendel 2(maybe 3) years in the playoffs. One year in the National Semifinals. 2(maybe 3) PAC Titles.

Ryan Abels one year in the playoffs. One PAC title. Records are great but not as good as winning.

You just dont get it

Bob i will be attending the TMC game maybe we can meet up and smoke our peace pipe  after we hold and chop block our way to victory. I think i will maybe donate to the brinks truck fund so the victory is secured.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2006, 04:56:00 PM
somebody doesn't get it is right!

I'm reminded of that old saying:

"Never argue with an idiot.  First, they'll drag you down to their level.  Then, they'll beat you with experience."


By the way, Wes, Mendel's NEVER been to the National Semifinals with the Presidents.  The Region Finals in 2004, but the Presidents haven't been to the National Semifinals since 1995.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 30, 2006, 05:28:30 PM
It is 5 a clock and I am starting to wind down at work and I decide to look at the Posts and there is some action going on in the PAC! 

AC,

I will agree with you that in Cameron WJ gets the calls, but that is  no difference to WC getting the calls at home.  In the PAC for some reason it seems as if the Home Team does get the calls.   

I wouldn't mind going back and actually watching the film on the game and seeing it for myself, but holding takes place on every play just like Bob stated.  You may have a case to a certain extent, but overall it seemed as if the Jackets had to be outcoaches and outplayed also.  30-3 just doesn't happen with a lucky calls and holding all game. 

Mantooth,

I really liked one of your points and had to give you some props with positive Karma.  Doesn't matter if you put a jock on or not, we are fans of this conference and having a differnce in opinion is what makes this forum Tick and i am happy to see it till a certain extent. 

AC and Bob,

The better back...That is toss up and heres why....Abel's has been very consistent and premier running back for all four years.  The Jackets had a couple of all time leading WR's who graduated a few years back i believe D'Imperio and E. Daniels, but Jeff Dumm was a hell of a QB, and he opened up the run game by passing all over defenses.  Much credit must also go to the all time leading passer at WC. 

WJ has prided itself with superior QB's and WR in the past few years.  From Dawson to Edwards and Tood Fry, roger Snyder, Mike Virgin, Aaron Kreps, Jon Miller, and now Mcafferty.  WJ has had a history of a 4 and four wide spread, and i might even be missing some great WR's for WJ.  Bottom line is the Pass has always been first the last 6 years or so, and they have had the WR's to do that.  Mendle is a great back he has speed and decsent size and is shifty enough. 

If you compare on pure accolades Abels wins hands down, but if you take a look at the stats this year or who truly means more to the team.  I have to go with Mendle and Mendle will push Abels for first team, and because they have a dual threat at WC it might hurt his chances at First team, also take into consideration that Daniels is haveing a better year statistical wise than Abels.  Who knows???

There is also a tough back for the Tomcats in Steve Minton who has been injured hte last two games but has had some solid seasons in the past and a sub par season thus far. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 30, 2006, 05:53:45 PM
To All...

You guys are eally going to town today with all these stats and opinions. Can anyone tell me how BC gets blown out by Westminster then travels to TMC and upsets them 21-17. Strange season!!!

Switching fron RBs to Wrs, I think BC has the two best receivers in the PAC with Parker breaking all the records which Cruse will the chasing for the next four years. Any thoughts.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 30, 2006, 06:02:29 PM
South Willy,

Parker has been one of the best WR's in the PAC for the worst team in the PAC for quite some time.  Parker could start on any team in the PAC at the WR position. 

Cruse is a playmaker and a possesion guy who can just plain out get it done.  He will chase, but he will be given more attention and coverages to his side due to Parker's departure.  It will depend on how hard he trains this offseason, the type of plays the Bisons draw up to free him or get him on 1 on 1 coverage.  Good season for a freshmen, but the next few years will really tell us how good this freshmen can be when he is the go to guy and receiving all the attention.  I hope they have a QB who can throw him the ball and a oline that can protect!

South Willy,

Cruse seems to be a good talent and he woudln't of gone unnoticed to the PAC teams.   How did he end up in Bethany as opposed to WJ, WC, or Thiel?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 30, 2006, 06:22:23 PM
I have to chime in on the better back. I think Mendel is the better back as I have seen both play for years. Both backs are from areas that are close to me and I have seen both play over the past several years in PAC action. I also think that Mendel has a better offensive line. The bottom line is that both backs are great and it depends on the better offensive line. I can remember Abels running for 30 yards three years ago at Thiel when he was the leading rusher and watching Mendel run well against Thiel that same year. The old saying that I would rather have a good offensive line then a good back is so true. This is a typical case of two great backs with Mendel having the better offensive line. Anyone that follows either team will argue for their guy. I think they both are great backs and who really cares who is better. One thing for sure whoever the coaches think is better will be 1st team all conference this year and maybe that will settle the argument.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 30, 2006, 07:38:07 PM
Someone bring the cheese, because there certainly is no shortage of 'whine' here. What's funny is you never see anyone complaining about officiating when they WIN the game.  The 'chopblock' is my favorite though and gave me quite a chuckle.

As for CMU, I was young in my tenure at W&J when they left the PAC and remember the 'another direction' line as well as that they were looking for a conference that had 'the same standards in academics' to the PAC, which I found to be a pretty weak argument.   I also found it funny that other games scheduled for years after their departure included PAC opponents, but ones maybe not as competitive. 

Maybe it was a better fit for their other sports programs.  I do remember the feeling as though they were sneaking out the back door at the time, but who knows?   CMU hasn't been very relevant since from what I recall, which is a shame because I think both programs could benefit from playing one another on a more regular basis.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on October 30, 2006, 08:22:59 PM
I agree with you on a football standpoint.  I don't know about the other sports, or the academics involved.  I don't see them moving out of the UAA anytime soon, but at least the UAA has reached a scheduling agreement with the NCAC.  Should help bring a little more competition to the UAA football teams.  They have only been relevant on the football field for about two years after they left the PAC.  The year after they left when they made the playoffs and lost 17-7 to Lycoming and this year when they have won their first UAA title in 9 years and are on their way to their second playoff appearance since leaving the PAC.  Sounds like that would be a much anticipated game if the Tartans and Presidents hooked up in the first round.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on October 31, 2006, 08:20:15 AM
I also saw the game at Cameron. The officiating was fine. Some close calls presumably to keep the game under control. Waynesburg was outcoached. W&J adapted to the weather with some exceptional playcalling. Their bend but not break defense dominated Waynesburg in the first half and put them away in the second.  Blaming a 30-3 loss on homer officials or worse in this case is just plain silly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2006, 03:53:46 PM


2006 Presidents' Athletic Conference Individual Statistics Through games of Oct 28, 2006


RUSHING             Team  Cl   G  Att    Yds   Avg TD Yds/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Ryan Mendel.... W&J  SR  8  205 1007   4.9 13 125.9   64
2. Eric Daniels....   WAY  SR  8  121   585   4.8   4   73.1   31
3. Ryan Abels.....   WAY  SR  8  139   562   4.0   9   70.2   56
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2006, 04:28:45 PM
DATE:  October 31st, 2006

For Immediate release

Board,

I don't know....officiating is really big now all of a sudden.  It seems like officials are missing more and more calls and its starting to effect games.  A call here or a call there is really all a team needs to turn a close game that can be decided by a field goal into a monkeystomp.  There needs to be some more accountability for these officials blowing games for teams. 

Sincerely,

The Minnesota Vikings Coaching Staff
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 31, 2006, 04:57:36 PM
CC...

Cruse's parent's are Bethany alumni.

I wonder which BC team will show up at CMU???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2006, 05:41:42 PM
South Willy,

Understandable, and I cant knock it either, I went to Thiel and was part of Leipheimers first recruiting class.  I went to a program that had not won more than 3 games in about 10 years, and now that graduated class is able to say we helped pave the way. 

Maybe that is the case there also. 

AC,

The level of productive officiating has been at a shortage this season.  I have to give them some credit because the level of talent and the speed of the game has increased.  More and more talent is starting to come into the PAC and these games are getting closer and tighter throughout the season goes on.  That is a positive sign but this is also means maybe these refs who are partime refs and have other jobs may need to be required to attend CE credits for refs....Somethign needs to be done and they need to catch up with the speed of the game, because they are losing the battle!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on November 01, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
To The Minn. Vikings Coaching Staff,

Good News!! Plans are now in preparation to send all NFL Refs to re-education camps to provide them with sensitivity training in dealing with whiners. Inferior teams must be aided in their up hill battles.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on November 01, 2006, 12:37:07 PM
Bobby Boy, you may want to get your Kleenex Box out or help out with some splinter pulling for 2003 season bench—where #3 wasn't good enough to play RB in year 2003 but even with more senior RB in Bettinazzi who Abels as "Freshman"  also beat at 826 yards while just  :Dplaying 1/2 of season. Note the 201 carries last year Bobby with Abels, 4 less carries than Mendel this year and 292 moe yards rushing.
Read em and Weap Bobby!!!These are from the archives that all of us can Thank the SID's at each College. Thanks fellows!!!for the Facts!!
Like night and day comparison and the only way to slow Abels down is play him less than 1/2 the time as it appeared to be the case this year.

Abels:
3 First Team All PAC Conf Selection
Mendel: None

Abels: Waynesburg College Records
Career Rushing
Career Scoring
Career TD's

Mendel: WJ College Records
None: and will be None

2005 Season
Abels 201 carries 1299 yards
Mendel 156 carries 823 yards

2004 Season
Abels  168 carries 957 yards
Mendel 158 carries 790 yards

2003 Season
Abels 182 carries 877 yards
Mendel 31 carries 154 yards


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on November 01, 2006, 12:47:04 PM
Bobby..........you just wouldn't leave it alone on something that "I sure didn't start" between the two RB's at each college the last several years.
But I did have to finish the item once and for all.

Looking ahead to this week?
Bethany getting primed up for next weeks home game at against Prez?
TMC heading into "wonder" land at Cameron. Carlisle already licking his chops to pop someone.
Frostburg heading to Waynesburg to play flatless Jacket team sufferring from loss last week to Prez.
Looking ahead.....the CMU/Thiel game should be a good one. CMU just lovs to run ball with alot of complicated formations and motions which makes their team tough to defend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2006, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: AC24#724 on November 01, 2006, 12:37:07 PM
...Abels: Waynesburg College Records
Career Rushing
Career Scoring
Career TD's

Those are all correct, AC.

And so is this:

As a W&J running back, Abels would have established the following career records:

1.  No.
2.  ah, No.
3.  No, again.


What sad is that YOU'VE chosen to turn this into a Abels vs. Mendel thing.

They are both very good running backs.  Abels has had a great career, a record-setting career at Waynesburg.  Mendel is having a great season after waiting in line behind Zits at W&J. 

Mendel has had better numbers, head-to-head, in the games between the two schools over these last three years.

That's where I got in.  That's where it stands.


By the way, AC, did you ever get one of your buddies to turn the VCR on for you?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on November 01, 2006, 02:32:58 PM
Incorrect Bob....I have not chosen this to be a Mendel/Abels things...if you look back at all my emails...this was started by another poster, not AC. and when I have some time I will look back and see who first mentioned the comparison. it surely wasn't me .I just had to share my point of view being a Jacket fan for the last 5-6 years and when I can get a chance to get to a game I usually see the offensive  talent show what each player brings to the table, whether it be #7 the last several years or #1 and #6 last several years, #15 the year before .but those STATS are factual.
Who knows....Maybe it was all started with Coach Sirianni of Prez clearly in Observer Reporter pointing out last year that Abels is Best Back in Conf head and shoulder's and this year support's his own back being biased of course like he states in another article I had read this past week. And.....no' to the VCR tape on film........I couldn't see the play well enough , I sent it down to the TMC Coach so he could see what he is in store for this week. told em also to watch the zebra's ...the run more than in a "pack" at Cameron.
Week # 8 in the books moving onward to week #9
Hey,  everyone has their own opinion...Interesting enough on pregame show this past week for Big Game did Coach S commend both Backs at Waynesburg Daniels and Abels at being real good backs that to of seem to of been around  the last 10 years. Nice comments to two players that know how to compliment each other on playing field. That's special.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 01, 2006, 02:33:06 PM
Quote from: denfd on November 01, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
To The Minn. Vikings Coaching Staff,

Good News!! Plans are now in preparation to send all NFL Refs to re-education camps to provide them with sensitivity training in dealing with whiners. Inferior teams must be aided in their up hill battles.

Thats great news.  We'll tell our players when they get back from the 2006 Boat Trip.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2006, 03:01:00 PM
Onward it is then!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 01, 2006, 04:01:19 PM
I started the whole Mendel/Abels comparison. My judgement was based on what i have witnessed first hand. This year Mendel is the better back. That being said the final point is BOTH ARE GREAT BACKS AND HAD GREAT CAREERS. Abels has the stats Mendel has less stats but walks out with 3 of 4 PAC championships and three playoff trips.

On to this weekend

W&J is going to have another tough one with TMC coming to town. My statement earlier with the 3 of 4 is based on them winning this game. I am confident they will handle TMC but stranger things have happened. TMC has a good short passing game and that concerns me as people have had success with thaton the prez. I think the Prez will move the ball on Carlisle & co as there offense has a dual pass run threat. Predictions tomm.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 01, 2006, 04:35:35 PM
In response to the post by Wes.......

last 4 years PAC champs

Waynesburg in 2003
W&J in 2004
Thiel in 2005
most likely W&J in 2006?

meaning Mendel has 2 out of 4 PAC championships?? Or did I make a mistake in what I just wrote...just curious
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 01, 2006, 04:58:52 PM
Oldtimere Good call i was thinking on the lines of 3 out of 4 years in the playoffs. But yes 2 out of 4. Anyways the main point is his teams won.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 02, 2006, 10:14:20 AM
with w&j outscoring their last four conference opponents 159 - 51 and their last three 132 - 28 i think it is reasonable to say that bob swallow, ryan mendel and the rest of the offense is on a roll and extremely hard to stop with sirriani mixing the run and the pass, and knowing he can do both. the offensive line has been doing a great job with mendel breaking the 1000 yard mark for the season last week. the defense is also starting to put things together after two defensive touchdowns last week and not allowing a respectable wanynesburg offense with two extraordinary backs, daniels and ables, to reach the endzone once. w&j defense is starting to play up to their potential. this week the saints come to town after a dissapointing loss to the bison of bethany. thomas more will still be a formidable opponent for the presidents but the way the team is clicking right now with a chance to regain the pac championship and playoffs in sight i expect w&j to come out on top regaining their rightful place on top of the pac.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2006, 12:44:24 PM
I love the matchup this weekend.  This is a game the Saints need to be legitimate pre-season contenders next year.  Remember, they are playing to gain respect in this conference...add that to the fact they have nothing to lose this weekend and I think you have a recipe for success for Thomas More.....IF they execute the best they can...in all three phases. 

The Saints may not have a chance at the playoffs this season....but this game and next week are both statement games.  Enough so, that this is their playoffs.  I think you'll see Thomas More come out and play as aggressive as any team has seen them play in almost two years of PAC play.  These seniors will be determined to be the guys who helped get the program over the hump with their first "winning season" in the PAC. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 02, 2006, 02:01:39 PM
saintsfan first of all you said TMC is playing to gain respect, meaning of course that they have something to gain, then you said they have nothing to lose however if they lose the game wouldnt that mean that they have lost even more respect if they even have any left after losing to bethany. the only recipe i can see ends with another L in the loss column for the saints. as for thomas more coming out and playing more aggressive than any team has ever seen them play, the presidents deal with that every week. every week w&j opponents play well over their heads knowing they are going up against the most consistently victorious team in the PAC. this week will be business as usual.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2006, 02:44:57 PM
Ernie,

You don't understand....and sorry if I offended you here. 

Everything to gain....nothing to lose.  Especially after losing to Bethany.  If they lose to W&J how do they lose respect with them "supposed" to lose this game?

What I said about the way the Saints are going to play has nothing to do with what the other teams bring to the game against W&J....it has everything to do with the Saints playing more aggressive than any other team that faced them this year has seen. 

If EVERY team came out against W&J playing above their heads....then you'd see closer games.

Again, sorry you don't like my opinoin...but I didn't say I expect TMore to win.  I do expect that you'll see their best effort of the year.  There's a big difference...

If you don't like what I have to say....don't read it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 02, 2006, 05:19:16 PM
you wouldn't necessarily see closer games.  i agree with ernie that pretty much every team w&j plays in the regular season plays above their heads.  the fact is w&j has done a great job of not playing down to the opponents level.  that is not a knock on any of w&j's opponents, but i am sure they would all agree that playing against the presidents is the biggest game of the year.  every team in the PAC plays w&j like its their superbowl.  tmc had great talent, and anything could happen, but their best chance to win might be to have w&j play down to their level and let them hang around. w&j is used to big games and are playing for a playoff birth, while tmc is playing for a winning season
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 02, 2006, 06:35:25 PM
Its a shame that TMC has waited till the end of the year to play their hearts out that must be why they are 2-3 in the conference. Thiel must not have played very hard to start when they were up 16-7 at halftime on W&J. I agree that they will come out and play hard as should any team but to say they will play harder than anyone they have played is arguable.

Prediction time

Westminster -10 @ Thiel-38

Thiel is too powerful for the young Titans and they win this one easily and try and finish the season on a postive note. Player of the Game is Blankenship with 200 yards along with 40 on the ground with 3 td's.

Bethany - 14 @ Cmu-48

CMU runs over Bethany as the Tartans look to win an at large berth. Player of the Game is the FB Sivek with 120 and three td's.

Case Western -31 @ GCC-10

Case Western comes to GCC and cruises. Player of the Game is QB Whalen for CWR with 200 yards and 2 td's.

Frostburg- 10 @ Waynesburg- 27

Waynesburg rebounds and wins this one handily. Abels and Daniels are co players of the Game with 200 total yards on the ground and 3 td's.

Game of the Week at Cameron. Brinks truck will be waiting for the officials after the game as the refs win this one for the Prez. Just kidding.

TMC-17 @ W&J -33

TMC plays harder than any opponent to start the game and jumps to an early 7-0 lead. Defense rebounds and the offense sparkles with drive after drive for TD's. Player of the Game Tommy Mcafferty with 92 yards recieving and 2 td's.

Good Luck to All

Go W&J


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 03, 2006, 08:10:13 AM
tmc like most teams wants to establish their run first. they split the majority of the carries with 3 different backs, QB Trevor Stellman also has the ability to run and does not shy away from tucking the ball with 61 attempts thus far on the season. however after shutting down ables and daniels last week w&j front 4 and linebackers taslov, bane and gitlitz should not have a problem taking away the running game of the saints forcing stellman to go to the air, giving safety nick cherish opportunities to make some plays and corner back corey walsh a chance to showcase what he can do since replacing lockdown corner back mike wilmus from a year ago. i predict a close game into the midle of the second quarter however with w&j stuffing the run and mendel controlling the clock on the ground mixed with swallows ability to find open receivers downfield the second half will be a different story with w&j blowing past the saints.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 03, 2006, 10:08:58 AM
Don't forget about the refs, W&J really needs them to come through in this game.  Being a better football team has nothing to do with it.  It's all about the calls.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 03, 2006, 11:28:11 AM
EC the refs are of no worry they have already been paid off as they are every week according to some in our posting world.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 03, 2006, 12:38:50 PM
i have decided to throw the refs a few extra reasons to give the presidents some calls as well victory is pretty much guarunteed now
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 03, 2006, 01:41:01 PM
So who do yinz think is better, Abels or Mendel?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2006, 01:51:21 PM
Referree calls are BS.  You play at home....you get the benefit of the doubt...if its close.  And you should...the home team is the home team.  But a ref has never lost a game for a team...not even close.

I never could understand teams whining about calls....its like an old coach of mine always used to tell us...."Play good enough to take the refs out of the game."

If you don't...its your own fault. 

And Wes,

You've misunderstood me.  I'm not going to continue to discuss it with you because we are on different wavelengths here.  TMC has not decided to start playing now....they just are playing with a desperation to save the season and make it a winning campaign. 

Maybe you never had to do that in playing for W&J but plenty of teams I've been on have had to do that.  It has nothing to do with not playing hard early in the year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 03, 2006, 01:57:40 PM
warrior, this award clearly goes to mendel. mendel finishes his career with the upper hand after last weeks victory and ables being held to under 60 yards while mendel racked up over 150. but lets not live in the past these two will never meet on the gridiron again. mendel has much bigger fish to fry or should i say (orange) yellow jackets to swat with the remainder of his career still meaning something.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 03, 2006, 03:09:53 PM
Bob, who are your guests this week?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2006, 03:13:53 PM
Pregame with Mark Uriah:

Coach Mike
John Klein
and Dan Brodland are on the show.

Airtime is 1:00 pm.


Halftime:  That's still up in the air.  We're hoping that former NFL Referee Chuck Heberling (W&J alum) will be in the house.

If not, perhaps Ernie's buddy Anthony will join us....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 03, 2006, 03:21:42 PM
SaintsFAN completely understand what you are saying and like your points about officiating and agree with what you are saying on that as well. TMC needs to make a statement for recruiting and prestige in the Conference and prove they are going to be future players rather than Middle dwelling contenders.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 03, 2006, 03:40:42 PM
It is obviously a very important game from that standpoint Wes, but TMC and W&J do not recruit the same kids.  In fact, I wouldn't guess that TMC recruits any of the kids that the rest of the PAC schools recruit.  Maybe Fan can verify this, but most of their players are Kentucky boys, while the rest of the PAC is PA and Ohio for the most part.  I would venture to say that beating W&J would give them a very good recruiting tool against whoever TMC recruits against in their backyard.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 03, 2006, 03:41:11 PM
Mark Bob love the show.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hugenerd on November 04, 2006, 12:28:55 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on October 30, 2006, 08:22:59 PM
I agree with you on a football standpoint.  I don't know about the other sports, or the academics involved.  I don't see them moving out of the UAA anytime soon, but at least the UAA has reached a scheduling agreement with the NCAC.  Should help bring a little more competition to the UAA football teams.  They have only been relevant on the football field for about two years after they left the PAC.  The year after they left when they made the playoffs and lost 17-7 to Lycoming and this year when they have won their first UAA title in 9 years and are on their way to their second playoff appearance since leaving the PAC.  Sounds like that would be a much anticipated game if the Tartans and Presidents hooked up in the first round.

You guys have been talking about this for a while, and I havent been a part of the conversation, but I just wanted to point out that Rochester is in the UAA in alot of sports, but fields a football team in the Liberty League.  I dont think CMU is going anywhere, but you never know because traveling a football team by airplane can be pretty expensive (not to mention hotel, meal money, and ground transportation).  Especially when you compare the number of players to other sports that travel on a regular basis, like basketball.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 04, 2006, 11:44:50 AM
If W&J corner Cory Walsh wants to move into the elite of DBs in the country, he will need to seriously consider wearing gloves.  That is the key.  He is already the best corner in the PAC, with Mullen close behind.  Willis is underachieving and will not be able to keep up with the Prez receivers for the 2nd year in a row. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 04, 2006, 12:05:34 PM
Warrior you make a great point and i completely agree with you in fact i was just thinking the same thing but allow me to expand on your thoughts. i would like to start by stating that cory walsh wore a wrist band last week and that is a huge step for him and i believe that along with a hard week of preparation gave him what he needed to intercept cobb last week. now on to the presidents offense i want to give some credit to the O-line they are doing a great job so far this season and have one of the best in chris teter and we all now that there is noone sweeeter than teter. look for mendel to have a huge game on the ground today running behind his experienced offensive lineman. (B..................Lock)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 04, 2006, 12:11:01 PM
D................umb
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 04, 2006, 12:55:05 PM
Last Minute Predictions:


Tmore vs WJ

WJ rolls early and often....

45-10


WC vs Thiel

Thiel gets the run game well oiled during the last two weeks and takes care of business.

42-7

Waynesburg vs Frostburg

The Run game is too much for the Burg.

28-10


Bisons vs CMU

Bisons are tougher this week with getting back their playmakers on offense, but not enough for the stout run game at CMU.

28-14

GCC vs Case

Battle of the smarties...

Case wins easily and triumphs back to the streets of east Cleveland.

35-7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hugenerd on November 04, 2006, 03:50:33 PM
CMU wins 44-6, running for 370 yards.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 04, 2006, 06:25:10 PM
From Washington:

Player of the Game: Aaron Bane, this finely tuned athletic machine had 8.5 tackles along with one fumble recovery and one interception.  The Bane Train was all over the field, reminded some W&J fans of a famous former LB that wore #48. 

Offensive Player of the Game: Bob Swallow, no longer known as Bobby, due to his efficient and timely big plays, he has earned the respect of everyone in the conference, therefore, he shall now be known as Bob, not Bobby.

Defensive Player of the Game: Eric Taslov: While the fleet-footed Butkus look-a-like had only 3 tackles, he was responsible for taking Stellman out of the game.  With Trevor out, the W&J defense rallied around Bane and Taslov.

Special Teams Player of the Game: Kyle Sidebotham.  He almost had a tackle today.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 04, 2006, 07:05:31 PM
Mark, Bob love the show....
warrior you made some great picks for players of the game and i completely agree with all of them but i am going to give you some of my thoughts. I am going to start with a little talk about the special teams, zebrasky sucks, ok on to the rest. player of the game - i am going to contiune my man crush and give the award to ryan mendel. mendel ran extremely hard this week and racked up over 100 yards on 27 carries he is proving to be the workhorse for the presidents week after week. hopefully soon i will find another man crush but is doubtful if mendel continues to play the way he has.

offensive player of the game - WR peter briggs with 5 receptions and 48 yards briggs also laid a devastating block on super star mark carlisle who underachieved with only 6.5 total tackles. briggs also played smart picking up first downs on superb stick routes. i am a briggs fan.

defensive player of the game - i cant decide defense played great other than the opening drive cherish came up with a pick at the end of the half to pad his stats, taz laid some heavy hits and has to put fear in a QB eyes when he looks up and sees a midle linebacker with his stature. bane had an incredible game with an interception and 8.5 tackles his dad did an incredible job telling the refs his true feelings, brodland nearly came away with another pick 6 great game defensively if walsh would just put on some gloves the presidents defense would be complete.

speacial teams player of the game - zembrasky sucks

side note #48 cut your hair and take those long socks off.

freestyle out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 05, 2006, 08:21:04 PM
Harsh words from some WJ followers about a few members of their special teams and #48. 

I agree Ernie I have always been around a coach's policy that there are no individuals.  Especially when you see those guys who stretch their atire to another level you want to level that player out more than anybody. 

From the score of the WJ game it sounded as if it was a tough contest?  Was that the case or was the score misleading with a touchdown at the end and WJ controlled most of the game?


Thanks boys!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on November 05, 2006, 08:44:15 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 04, 2006, 11:44:50 AM
If W&J corner Cory Walsh wants to move into the elite of DBs in the country, he will need to seriously consider wearing gloves.  That is the key.  He is already the best corner in the PAC, with Mullen close behind.  Willis is underachieving and will not be able to keep up with the Prez receivers for the 2nd year in a row. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on November 05, 2006, 09:06:32 PM
 
Quote from: the_great on November 05, 2006, 08:44:15 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 04, 2006, 11:44:50 AM
If W&J corner Cory Walsh wants to move into the elite of DBs in the country, he will need to seriously consider wearing gloves.  That is the key.  He is already the best corner in the PAC, with Mullen close behind.  Willis is underachieving and will not be able to keep up with the Prez receivers for the 2nd year in a row. 

I have something to say about that right there...  Willis is not seeing the balls that he seen last year... Teams are goin away from him and going the other way.. Willis face one of the top WR from HUNTINGDON (AL) Colson, Mark which i believe is better than any WR in the PAC.  Willis held him to 67 yards which half of them came on screens. Willis had 6 tkls 3 pass brk ups.. he is by far the most fear CB in the PAC..  Most team in that PAC will not pass his way.. Agains Hanover he was move around to face one of there best WR Bobby Smarts which Willis again held him in check, by doin so Willis was moved inside to cover the slot WR..  Willis also held FSU leading WR/TE Fred Howze to one catch.. While pickin one off and RT a punt for the game winning TD.. So by far I dont believe that any other CB in the PAC is being asked to do some of the things that Willis is being ask.. And Its nothing that he can do if teams dont want to throw the ball his way... Plus W&J only threw one pass his way and he broke it up so by far he is one of the best CB in the PAC and could Start on any team in the PAC...  I cant say that Cory Walsh has shut down anyone like that.. NOT AT ALL..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 05, 2006, 10:44:24 PM
Great...

Where was your star CB Willis when a freshman Bison WR Cruse went 8 catches for 97 yds and 2 scores to upset TMC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 10:59:59 PM
Yes, Cruse is gifted and will turn out to be something special for the Bisons.  Not sure about his stats at CMU but I was there and he looked good to me.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2006, 08:53:48 AM
Quote from: South Willy on November 05, 2006, 10:44:24 PM
Great...

Where was your star CB Willis when a freshman Bison WR Cruse went 8 catches for 97 yds and 2 scores to upset TMC.
Quote from: South Willy on October 30, 2006, 05:53:45 PM
To All...

You guys are eally going to town today with all these stats and opinions. Can anyone tell me how BC gets blown out by Westminster then travels to TMC and upsets them 21-17. Strange season!!!

Switching fron RBs to Wrs, I think BC has the two best receivers in the PAC with Parker breaking all the records which Cruse will the chasing for the next four years. Any thoughts.

Willy,

Come on Willy....thats a loaded question.  You can't take away anything from Willis based on that.  There is as you say two great WR at Bethany...Parker and Cruse right?  I'm sure that Willis can only match up against one of them....judging by the stats you cite, I'd say he had to man up Parker. 

Do you honestly think that any of the schools had a chance to put him on the field for their team that they wouldn't do it?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 06, 2006, 10:22:25 AM
SaintsFAN...

I agree totally that he can only man up on one WR but Cruse went for 97 yds and the Bison through for 231 yds on the day. Seemed like everyone was open in the second half. I really can't believe BC beat TMC.

Bison have absolutely no consistency on defense. One week they can play with a solid team like TMC and the next will give up 40-45 points to Westminster or Muskingum. Offense is getting betetr but way to young to match up against CMU or W & J next week.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2006, 11:04:01 AM
Willy,

You never know....thats why they play the game.  Its very good for the conference that Bethany is competitive.  I think we can all agree that the PAC is better for having more competition in it now that Bethany is on the rise, and other schools have posted winning seasons. 

Hopefully its enough that it has W&J poised for a deep run in the playoffs this year..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on November 06, 2006, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: South Willy on November 05, 2006, 10:44:24 PM
Great...

Where was your star CB Willis when a freshman Bison WR Cruse went 8 catches for 97 yds and 2 scores to upset TMC.
Mr. South Willy

Well as for BC beating TMC they were lookin ahead for W&J and took them as a walk over team.. that was TMC fault at hand.. We all know that BC is no where near as good a TMC..  As for the freshman having them catches: On film he was never a threat so Y would Willis cover him??  Answer that for me.. For two BC had no WR that were worth Willis following around the whole game not even the #12 kid parker i think his name is.. TMC felt like there DB could match up with all them guys and did that Freshman catch any of them passes on Willis i dont think so i believe that where all across the middle of the field.. You so you still havent answer the question y does every team in the PAC throw away from Willis..

Mr. South Willy
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 06, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
If teams are so afraid of Willis, then can you explain to me why he is the 2nd leading tackler out of the TMC DBs and first among corners?  He has 21 solo tackles compared to Toone's 8 and has only 4 PBUs.  Against W&J, Willis was seldom on McCafferty's side, instead he was lined up on the weak side receiver, who from what I can see, has been a decoy this year.  Please explain to me how such an impact player is making no impact at all.  Walsh is a much better tackler than Willis and plays way more disciplined, therefore I would trust him more in a matchup situation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 06, 2006, 01:36:25 PM
A few thoughts from this past weekends game in Washington. W&J clearly came out flat in this game. They did not play with much enthusiasm throughout. 21-12 makes the game sound close but it was not even close at all. I do not recall W&J ever throwing away from Willis in the game either. No doubt he is a good corner but Swallow was hitting reciever after reciever for completions. If Swallow didnt overthrow a ball to Mcafferty he had Willis beat by 10 yards on a hitch and go that would have been a 90 yard TD. Carlisle had his beehind handed to him by Pete Briggs in the flats on a pass play as well. Also witnessed Mendel running through a few of his tackles clearly not his best game. He must have taken out his frustration by throwing Mendel to the ground after the whistle had blown. First time i have witnessed TMC play and they looked like a middle of the road PAC team at this time as they clearly did not have the athletes to compete with the athletes that are at Thiel and W&J. Stellman is a good QB and him getting hurt changed the game. EC and Ernie i think Walsh just needs to spat his shoes and he would be complete but the arm band was a nice change up for him. Coach Jay Ernst did a nice job as the get back coach keep it up.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on November 06, 2006, 01:42:47 PM
Well first of all Willis & Toone are two different players and they felt as if W&J WR were no where as good as they were last year and you know it to.. Toone did a good job on #24 he Was on top of every route with the exception of the one that he broke under because the ball look as if it was goin to fall.. W&J WR were not as fast as last year so there is not need to move Willis around..  Willis had come up and make more Tkls because of the Double teams that Mark is seeing this year..  Plus Toone sat out 2 game and played a half in a 3rd so please know the facts before you ask questions like that.... O and one other thing when Willis was on 24 side the ball was knock down... Willis is a physical CB so of course he will come up to try and get a pic or a pass break up that is the type of D that TMC runs...  I just see now that Willis is trying to break on any pass so he can get his pic and I can see that its a frustrated year for him and Mark to not be able to help the team like they want.. so thats why he is the best returner on the team he wants the ball and he is a play maker when every u get done... not to take anything away from Walsh Maybe if Willis had some help on the other side then team will have to try him  more have anyone ever thought of that???  Toone is a ok player but he gets scored on a lot and i seen a few games where it has happen.. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on November 06, 2006, 01:47:08 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 06, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
If teams are so afraid of Willis, then can you explain to me why he is the 2nd leading tackler out of the TMC DBs and first among corners?  He has 21 solo tackles compared to Toone's 8 and has only 4 PBUs.  Against W&J, Willis was seldom on McCafferty's side, instead he was lined up on the weak side receiver, who from what I can see, has been a decoy this year.  Please explain to me how such an impact player is making no impact at all.  Walsh is a much better tackler than Willis and plays way more disciplined, therefore I would trust him more in a matchup situation.
Well first of all Willis & Toone are two different players and they felt as if W&J WR were no where as good as they were last year and you know it to.. Toone did a good job on #24 he Was on top of every route with the exception of the one that he broke under because the ball look as if it was goin to fall.. W&J WR were not as fast as last year so there is not need to move Willis around..  Willis had come up and make more Tkls because of the Double teams that Mark is seeing this year..  Plus Toone sat out 2 game and played a half in a 3rd so please know the facts before you ask questions like that.... O and one other thing when Willis was on 24 side the ball was knock down... Willis is a physical CB so of course he will come up to try and get a pic or a pass break up that is the type of D that TMC runs...  I just see now that Willis is trying to break on any pass so he can get his pic and I can see that its a frustrated year for him and Mark to not be able to help the team like they want.. so thats why he is the best returner on the team he wants the ball and he is a play maker when every u get done... not to take anything away from Walsh Maybe if Willis had some help on the other side then team will have to try him  more have anyone ever thought of that???  Toone is a ok player but he gets scored on a lot and i seen a few games where it has happen.. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 06, 2006, 02:03:27 PM
Talkin about the best Corner in the PAC.........quietly but surely it is Steve Boyle from Thiel

PASSES DEFENDED    Team Cl  G Brup  Int Total Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------
1. Steve Boyle.... THI  SR  9   10    5    15  1.67
2. C. Schwamberger GRO  SR  9    8    4    12  1.33
3. Ryan Mullen.... W&J  JR  9    5    3     8  0.89
    Cory Walsh..... W&J  SR  9    6    2     8  0.89
5. Anthony Taylor. WAY  SR  9    2    5     7  0.78
    Aaron Bane..... W&J  SR  9    6    1     7  0.78
7. R.J. Faldowski. BET  JR  8    2    4     6  0.75
8. Mike Baker..... GRO  SO  7    3    2     5  0.71
9. Chris Willis... TMC  SR  9    4    2     6  0.67
    A. Quarterman.. THI  JR  9    5    1     6  0.67


INTERCEPTIONS      Team Cl  G  Int  Yds TD Int/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------
1. Anthony Taylor. WAY  SR  9    5  120  0  0.56   53
    Steve Boyle.... THI  SR  9    5   32  1  0.56   32
3. R.J. Faldowski. BET  JR  8    4   57  0  0.50   25
4. C. Schwamberger GRO  SR  9    4   58  0  0.44   58
5. Nick Cherish... W&J  SR  9    3   65  0  0.33   39
    Jake Wilczynski WES  SO  9    3   39  0  0.33   21
    Ryan Mullen.... W&J  JR  9    3   25  0  0.33   15
8. Mike Baker..... GRO  SO  7    2    0  0  0.29    0
9. Terence Toone.. TMC  JR  8    2   48  0  0.25   28
10.Brandon Zeman.. BET  SO  9    2   90  2  0.22   55
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 06, 2006, 02:04:00 PM
How does Carlisle getting double teamed have anything to do with Willis making tackles?  And if you're TMC defensive coaches, then wouldn't you put Willis on 24 not 88.  W&J receivers are not as talented as last years like you said, and #24 is clearly the top threat, so Willis should have been on him.  You said he was matched up last year, who was he matched up on?? If any CB is to match up on a W&J receiver, then this is the year to do it, not last year.  There was too much talent at the position for anyone to match up.
You also said that he is breaking up and trying to break up every pass, so then why does he have only 4 breakups? I am not sure what you were trying to say there.  And even if Toone has sat out a few games, 21-8 is still a big difference.  If you say teams are trying to avoid Willis so much, then Toone would have way more tackles.  
Willis was invisible Saturday, not because W&J avoided going to him.  He was just another body out there.  Carlisle was the only player to stand out on the D, which is fine, you need role players as well.  But I wouldn't expect Willis to be a role player, he should be a star along with Carlisle.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on November 06, 2006, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 06, 2006, 02:04:00 PM
How does Carlisle getting double teamed have anything to do with Willis making tackles?  And if you're TMC defensive coaches, then wouldn't you put Willis on 24 not 88.  W&J receivers are not as talented as last years like you said, and #24 is clearly the top threat, so Willis should have been on him.  You said he was matched up last year, who was he matched up on?? If any CB is to match up on a W&J receiver, then this is the year to do it, not last year.  There was too much talent at the position for anyone to match up.
You also said that he is breaking up and trying to break up every pass, so then why does he have only 4 breakups? I am not sure what you were trying to say there.  And even if Toone has sat out a few games, 21-8 is still a big difference.  If you say teams are trying to avoid Willis so much, then Toone would have way more tackles.  
Willis was invisible Saturday, not because W&J avoided going to him.  He was just another body out there.  Carlisle was the only player to stand out on the D, which is fine, you need role players as well.  But I wouldn't expect Willis to be a role player, he should be a star along with Carlisle.
Well first of all Toone is not makin Tkl as u can see if you did watch the game u seen the SS comming down to make them Tkls and if you know D then you will also know that some times when ur in  a coverage the LBs will have to get underneath some of them routes so Willis comes up and make Tkls but im not goin to get in do a debate about this like "oldtimer4774" said (Talkin about the best Corner in the PAC.........quietly but surely it is Steve Boyle from Thiel) so thats is that i was just tryin to make a point that Willis is not seeing passes like he did last year and teams are sayin that they will throw on the other side rather than throw to Wilis side.. He is 6'2 very physical and runs fast so i just think that any coach in the PAC would make him a Starter on any of there teams..  The point about Mark is that last year Willis didnt have a chance to make a tkl cuz Mark would aready make them but now that he is gettin Double team Willis is able to come up and make that tkl... but I am going to let it go because if you seen Willis was hurt with a hamy injury since FSU which he didnt play after that int he got and he didnt finsh the hunting game either...
but he bit on the hich and go which was smart by there coach cuz he is a physical CB so it was smart to do that.. but #24 didnt catch the ball so really dont matter but the pass that was thrown he had him cover good..  I have said what i had to say about that and in the end W&J is goin to the playoffs so I wish all the luck to them..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 06, 2006, 02:38:08 PM
Great...

Interesting, BC receivers are 1st & 3rd in the PAC in yardage and TD's but they aren't worth Willis's time. Cruse at 6'3" and 200 will match physical with any db and few are faster. His 45yard TD at TMC first left a db stuck in his tracks and then trailing badly to the endzone. Not sure which BD???

I'm not up to date on most PAC players but Waynesburg secondary was the toughest on BC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_great on November 06, 2006, 03:01:48 PM
Quote from: South Willy on November 06, 2006, 02:38:08 PM
Great...

Interesting, BC receivers are 1st & 3rd in the PAC in yardage and TD's but they aren't worth Willis's time. Cruse at 6'3" and 200 will match physical with any db and few are faster. His 45yard TD at TMC first left a db stuck in his tracks and then trailing badly to the endzone. Not sure which BD???

I'm not up to date on most PAC players but Waynesburg secondary was the toughest on BC.
whats ur address ill send u the tape of that game and u can see ur self that the kill TMC with crossin routes and TMC didnt make the adjustments to it what TMC should have done to stop that is went to Man to Man....  But u can watch any film from this year and see that Willis has never been "stuck in his tracks and then trailing badly to the endzone." as u stated.. But ur right Willis should have been on him unstead of Parker.. but o wait then maybe Parker would have been the one with the 45 yard TD with DB's stuck in his tracks and then trailing badly to the endzone. Ur full of it.. just give the kid he credit he cant cover all there WR at some point Toone has to step up an make some plays.. I know everyone else can agree except Mr. South Willy because he think that one DB can cover Two people at the same time..  Ur right thats y ur on ESPN making prediction on the games righ...lol...  this is crazy I am done...lol...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 06, 2006, 06:21:41 PM
This guy must be Gary Coleman, because that's the only one that can have this type of man love for a guy named Willis.  ::)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 06, 2006, 06:55:28 PM
Burgh Boy,

I think your on the verge of something here wtih the Gary Coleman and the love for a guy named Willis...How about the other side of the story with South Willy who has been hyping up Bethany's WR Cruse for quite a few weeks now....Click on the profile and you can see for yourself...


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 07, 2006, 08:47:28 AM
That's a whole different kind of love.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 07, 2006, 08:57:39 AM
CC...Good Morning

What profile are you talking about???? And other than Parker (who everyone knows) & Cruse, who else can you hype at BC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 07, 2006, 11:03:41 AM
S. will if i had to take a guess i would say your profile considering all you do is hump cruse on here and your email just happens to include that name. but i am glad we are talking about bethany since they are playing wj this week. how bethany has 4 wins this season is beyond me and how they beat tmc i do not understand. bethany has put up a whopping 192 points so far this season with nearly half of them coming in the 4th quarter surley this is after their opponents have put in the freshman to give them some playing time. i almost cant find it in me to talk smack on this team they are that bad. i am looking at their stats and i feel embarrassed for them. surely anything i write will have no response, even if there is a bethany fan, or a wide receivers parent out there, there is no way that person would say anything in defense of a team this bad. in the past five years w&j has outscored bethany 229 - 38, in the past three years 157 - 3. im sure everyone can figure this out on their own but i feel like saying it anyways, bethany hasnt reached the endzone in 12 quarters against w&j and they havent put up one single point in 11, wow im starting to feel embarrassed again. well after all that i expect to see another 0 on bethany side of the board again this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 07, 2006, 11:35:02 AM
Ernie...

Can't disagree much with what you posted. I will say that a good percentage of those 4th qtr points were scored in BC's wins over OWU, TMC and GCC who weren't playing their freshmen, athough many of the points were scored by BC freshmen.
BC has been nothing to talk about for years but hopefully the new coaching staff will recruit some better athletes and make them more competitive. With plenty of underclassmen playing ever game, maybe the future is a little brighter.
I'm new to D3 football and enjoy reading the postings from all the conferences including the PAC. I'm not new to M. Cruse, I've known him for almost 19 yrs. I'm flying up for the game Saturday so I hope we get some decent weather.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2006, 01:06:05 PM
Bethany scored 7 in the 4th quarter at Thomas More.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 07, 2006, 02:31:03 PM
SaintsFAN...

Thats is a fact and I can tell you who scored them....but BC scored 21 in the 4th qtr at OWU, 14 against GCC and the "7" against TMC. That's 42 of the total 74 points which is 57% or a "Good Percentage".

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2006, 04:21:42 PM
You are right...by the math, but I think you could say that about any of the teams that Bethany scored a TD on in the 4th Quarter.  Scoring one TD is alot different than scoring 3 times.  Thats all I was saying.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 07, 2006, 04:52:15 PM
SaintsFan...

I understand. I was just trying to show that over 50% of BC's 4th qtr points were in our wins, not just scoring against players mopping up a blowout. TMC somehow??? was just one of the wins.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 07, 2006, 04:54:03 PM
SaintsFAN...

You have another tough game this weekend but have a chance to play the spoiler.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2006, 10:14:11 PM
South Willy,

I commend you on talking up a loved one.  No doubt the kid has talent, but what I have seen before and heard is this is a new coaching staff that will get it done, and bring in more talent.  Same song and dance about 4 years ago...and Now a new staff is there...

It is hard to bring in talent to Bethany lets face it, to be honest I am not suprised they have won 4 games.  GCC and Westminster are rebuilding under young QB's and the Tmore  and OWU are the only games I would truly put a notch under the belt of the Bisons. 
Being Blown out by Westminster truly came as a suprise.  Say what you want with injuries, but a good team which is supposly what they are turning into is supposed to come together and get a W. 

It is great to see them come out of being the cellar but with a talented senior class graduating we will see what happens in the offseason.  This will be the biggest offseason for Bethany and a 5-5 season will not make believers out of most recruits, but losing a majority of high profile positions will weight on a recruits mind.  Obviously there is a reason why WR Cruse went to Bethany that you stated, and I hope for his sake he can help turn that program around.  Lets see how he does when Parker is gone and QB Owens is out of the picture also.  Cruse will get Double teamed and have more attention brought on him.  THis will limit the 2 TD's and 97 yards a game he is currently enjoying.  He will not be a sleeper to anybody anymore thats for sure. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2006, 10:19:50 PM
South Willy,



Actually, I forgot about Milton Joyner!!  The kid has been under the radar last year, but is still a solid speedy, shifty reciever....


Had a pretty good sophmore season but I believe he has been more of a slot third down reciever this year with the Arrival of Cruse...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 07, 2006, 11:01:32 PM
CC...

All good points... I like the coaches who all have Ivy League experience and really attempt to keep the kids in line and in class. A lot of kids sat out games this season due to team rule problems and the coaches are much stricter than the previous regime. Upperclassmen don't seem to mind loosing any more since they spent 3 years at 1-9 but Fr & soph, who got to play a bunch this season, play hard but need to learn. The mix is what gets you a no show like Westminster game but a strong effort at TMC.

What BC needs to recruit are OL & DL with some athleticism. We can't compete up front on either side of the ball. BC has the best pass defensive stats only because no team needs to throw the ball against us.
W & J will score at will until reserves are finally inserted and will probably score some more. Running backs have no holes and QB's are chased all day with starter being knocked out for season at CMU.
It will be an ugly day saturday but we have to play the game.

Looking forward to improvement next few years and a winning record in the PAC. We need to recruit some more South Florida boys!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 08, 2006, 08:39:20 AM
S.W.


I did look through your roster and see a ton of freshmen and sophmores and only about 10 seniors mainly on the defensive side of the ball.  and that wont hurt you too much as long as you have a solid backups and guys learning the system.  As opposed to on the offensive side of the ball with new guys playing it normally takes a year or two before they mesh and start executing as a team.  Plugging in new guys on defense is can be less painful than on offense. 

The weather should be fairly nice for the game this weekend so all you will need is a sweatshirt and maybe a light jacket. 

Floridians!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2006, 01:16:07 PM
willy,

Its going to be tougher this week.....Stellman is out.  Broken Leg suffered against W&J when the Saints were up 12-0, tough blow.  Freshman QB in... but it is a big rivalry....and we owe those guys. 

We'll see.

and by the way, naming the kid who is responsible for breaking Stellman's leg as "defensive player of the week" is childish and in poor taste.  Period. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2006, 01:54:25 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2006, 01:16:07 PM
...and by the way, naming the kid who is responsible for breaking Stellman's leg as "defensive player of the week" is childish and in poor taste.  Period. 

First of all, Saints never led 12-0.  6-0, then 6-7, 6-14, 6-21, 12-21.

Secondly, the PAC Defensive Player of the Week was Aaron Bane.

He's nowhere around Stellman when his leg got caught up underneath him.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/SiteImages/Article/32194a.jpg

Taslov's on his own butt.  Gitlitz coming from left of photo.  Sutphin from behind Taslov.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 08, 2006, 02:04:50 PM
Saints last i recall TMC was never up 12-0. They were down 7-6 when Stellmen was hurt and if you want to talk about classless that was TMC with Carlisle throwing Mendel to the ground when the play was over and constant grabbing and poking in piles. One moment brought to the forefront by Mcafferty to the ref about quit sticking your fingers(you finish the rest). Anyway the game is over and Stellman getting hurt was no doubt a turning point. The back up QB is by far the biggest QB in D3 looks like Jared Lorenzen who used to play for Kentucky. He ran over a couple people a few times but couldnt throw the ball a lick. Predictions coming up tommorrow.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 08, 2006, 03:18:28 PM
To All...

BC also lost their strting QB in the third qtr against CMU but we were never in the game. Very tough defense at CMU and I'm interested in what everyone thinks about the possible match-up between W & J/CMU. W & J is traditionally the stronger program but CMU this year looks to make it a very competitive game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 08, 2006, 03:49:29 PM
Saintsfan,
I didn't mean it like that.  I only meant that that was a very big play in the game, maybe even a turning point, as clearly W&J was having difficulties with Stellman.  I certainly wish him the best and a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2006, 04:06:54 PM
EC,

Cool.  Just wanted to get that out there.  From what I understand, its pretty much the same injury that Berkley sustained last year.  You can admit that you can't tell in what context to take things on here....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2006, 04:11:44 PM
Wes,

Not touching that one....TMC is not a dirty team.  This would be the first accustation of dirty play..

Re:  QB

He's a biggun....and yes he ran.  He needs to get his legs under him though, so he can throw the ball this week.  Another game against a playoff team.  We'd love to spoil their season.  Thing is that TMC hung with W&J without Stellman....maybe that will build their confidence and some momentum to beat Mount St. Joe.  We know who the tougher team is..

Yes, losing Stellman really hurt us in the President's game.  But you can't pin hopes on one player.

Bob,

Score or no score.  I think it hurt, but the rest of the team had to step up and didn't.  Plain and simple...

I was NOT talking about the PAC naming him player of the game.  I was talking about another poster. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 08, 2006, 04:38:33 PM
I wouldnt say they hung with them as i said before the game was a lot worse than the score played out. W&J played flat and still easily handled them. They couldve and should have passed all day on TMC as they were playing the run. Maybe it was the Mount connections between the coaches i dont know but the second half it seemed like he knew the game was won and backed off on the play calling either way a wins a win. Stellman and Collier are a good duo to build a offense around and i think the offense will be a key for them in future after losing Carlisle and Willis.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2006, 04:46:53 PM
Wes,

You can ALWAYS talk about the winning team being able to score more points than what they did.  I don't think they were purposely not scoring because of the Mount Union connection (see ONU/MtU this year), but maybe they WERE holding back some.  Last week is one of the weeks that their first round opponent would see a tape of in a trade.  I think this would be an explanation if you think W&J was holding back.

Or maybe because of TMC's record (losing to Bethany) they did look past the Saints.  Either way, I think the Saints still played hard, and thats all you can ask of a team to do.  Especially when they have so much hope in the beginning, only to be dealt a devestating blow by losing Stellman like that.  Perhaps his injury was gruesome enough for both teams to have it in the back of their mind?

I just don't think it was the MtU connection.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 08, 2006, 06:27:20 PM
TMC def played hard no question about that. W&J sure did not they seemed flat the whole game. Probably left a lot on the field the week before against Waynesburg. They should easily handle Bethany this week and on to the playoffs with who knows who. W&J cannot afford to play like they did this past week or they will be one and done for the second straight season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 08, 2006, 09:25:56 PM
Well, Daily Dose is projecting W&J making the short drive to Gesling in the first-round, barring either team losing this weekend.  I would love to see that game happen.  Former rivals and a playoff atmosphere.  If it happens, I hope its a fair-fought battle between two capable teams.  CMU may have to ride its defense, but that's how they won in St. Louis so my guess is that this would be a pretty good game. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2006, 08:23:39 AM
BDTARTAN,


Do not count your chickens before they hatch.

Tomcats are going to be pulling together to have a above 500 season, and looking to pull the upset.  One thing is for sure CMU better be ready to play a physical game, because that is how Thiel plays full tilt.  If they don't and come out soft they will be out of the game before they know what hit them. 

Looking forward to predictions....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 09, 2006, 08:52:25 AM
CC,

Even if Thiel wins CMU still makes the playoffs, although I would think they might lose home field advantage to W&J if both are 9-1?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 09:26:44 AM
...timer,

While I BELIEVE what you write is true, I'm not betting on it.

CMU has not ONE quality win this season.

10-0 gets you in. Period.

9-1 without a quality win certainly leaves the committee some wiggle room.

Not, mind you, that the Presidents' beaten opponents have exactly set the world on fire.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2006, 09:33:57 AM
Right, they are comparable to the 2000 Thomas More Saints....who went 9-1 losing to a THEN bad Thiel team and they stayed home.  Their quality win that year was Hanover. 

I also don't believe a win in St. Louis will compare to/ prepare for a playoff GAME.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 09:37:01 AM
W&J's non-PAC opponents:
Salisbury, Allegheny, Hanover and Oberlin are a combined 18-18.

W&J's beaten PAC opponents:
Grove, Westm, Thiel, TMC, Way are a combined 19-26 (.422)


CMU's non-PAC opponents:
Hiram, F&M, Colo.Coll., CWRU, Chic, WashU are a combined 19-44.

CMU's beaten PAC opponents:
Grove, Westm, Beth are a combined 8-19 (.296)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2006, 09:39:05 AM
Saints Fan,

Oh I remember as the seniors my freshmen year used to always remind us that summer working out of what we were capable of. 

Bob,

I agree with you to a certain extent, but dont sell your schedule short especially compared to CMU.  What teams do during the year plays a big role in the voters mind the quality of victories, but another factor that is in the mind of the voters is what has that program done lately in the last few years.  With Thiel winning the PAC last year and going 11-1 its credible, and two years ago Waynesburg going to the playoffs.  There are not many teams on CMU's scheudle if any that can attest to that comparison.  A teams history is in the back of voters minds.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2006, 09:41:12 AM
Good mathetmatics...

Really sums up CMU's level of competition this year.  Just not adequate.  We will see this weekend.  If Thiel plays physical for 4 quarters CMU will not be able to rise to the occasion as they have in the previous 9 weeks.  Smelling an upset in Greenville already!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 09, 2006, 09:55:04 AM
CC,

I agree about the potential "upset" brewing for this weekend.  Although I dont know if it will be much of an upset.  You take Albion and Alfred off of Thiels schedule and plug in two of the non -PAC teams that CMu played and Thiel is most likely 7-2 right now with a close losses to W&J and Waynesburg.......and working on an 8-2 season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 09, 2006, 10:07:55 AM
Or, If you take Thiel's schedule from last year with the out of conference games being OWU and Bluffton at the beginning, again Thiel is probably 7-2 right now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 01:45:02 PM
Look, all I can say for the fifteenth time that this CMU team is different from last year's with almost the same roster.  If those guys don't expect Thiel to come out banging after last year's 3 OT thriller at Gesling than I myself don't believe they are worthy of the playoffs.  CMU will be ready for Thiel.  Who wins?  I can't say.  Last year, folks would have thought the Tomcats go into to Gesling and pull the starters by half-time, but it went 3 extra periods so...................I'm not making any predictions, I'm just saying CMU knows what to expect from a Thiel team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 01:48:17 PM
BD, I would hope anybody with the grades/scores to get INTO CMU would be able to expect their football opponent to come out ready to play.

And none of us need to be told for the umpteenth time that "this CMU team is different from last year's"....we get it!

Some of us actually have grades & scores that could have/did get US into CMU!  Imagine that!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 01:49:37 PM
Also, Saintsfan, I wasn't comparing a win in St. Louis to a playoff game.  I was just trying to point out that it was a huge game for their program in a hostile environment.  i.e. CMU hadn't won a UAA tile in 9 years and hadn't beat Wash U. in 8 years.  By no means did I think it compared to a playoff game, but it was still a huge game with a different type of atmosphere than any of their other games so far this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 01:51:10 PM
Bob, wasn't trying to knock your intelligence.  Sorry if you felt that way.  Just wanted to make clear that I doubt Thiel is going to surprise CMU with anything.  They may beat them, but it won't be by surprise.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 02:02:44 PM
I don't imagine I'm the only one that's been around a while that will tell you this:

I'd be very, very careful calling the Washington U. victory a "huge win".  Thiel's win over W&J last year was Huge.  That was a victory by a down-trodden program against a year-in-and-year-out NCAA playoff participant.

CMU's win over Washington U. was the first for the Tartans in sometime (8-9 years) despite the fact that the Bears haven't won more than 6 games in a season since CMU students solved all of the world's Y2K problems...  Of course, come to think of it, CMU hadn't won more than six games in a season since then either--until now.

The CMU overtime victory was important for the Tartans and, in the narrow scope of the 2006 season and its promise, was sizable, no doubt.  A "huge win"?  I'm not ready to go there, and its size certainly diminishes if the Tartans fail to finish the job against the Tomcats!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 02:08:41 PM
Oh, Bob, I understand fully what you are saying.  And I don't doubt you or anybody else's wisdom.  I just know from speaking to a few of the guys that it seemed like they got a monkey off their back you know what I mean?  I personally probably used the wrong word, regardless it was a big win for CMU, who haven't sniffed a season like this since 1990. 

Also, I have no doubt that everyone on this board is going to be behind Thiel and W&J if CMU wins out and meets up with W&J in the first round.  As I've stated before, its pretty boring(crickets chirping) over on the UAA board.  I'm not coming over here running my mouth or making predictions.  I just wanted some conversation that involved CMU and their next opponent and maybe their first round opponent.  So, sorry if anybody is offended by me.  I'll leave and head back to the desert(UAA board) if you guys want.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 02:33:51 PM
I wasn't offended.  I don't think others were.

Just sharing some thoughts from the vantage point of experience.  And also because I'm not big on hyperbole...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2006, 03:47:49 PM
Tartan,

NO need to leave you know the role that everyone else in this forum is going to take and taht is the back of a PAC team. 


Question for the Board...

If the tomcats Slam CMU back to Gesling with a lopsided win.  Should CMU still make the playoffs?


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 09, 2006, 03:59:24 PM
CC..

I guess it shouold depend on which teams are on the bubble??? W & J also has what most would call a bad loss but it occured back in Sept. There's no shame in lossing to Thiel. Both would be 9-1 (BC won't be a problem) and we know W & J will get in.

Having talked with BC players after the CMU game, I don't see a lot of points being scored on the CMU defense so I think Thiel at home may win but it will be competitive.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2006, 04:57:53 PM
Willy,

I do not expect Thiel's offense to put up a ton of points, but if Thiel can stop the Triple OPtion in the first half and hold them to less than 14 points, the game will belong to the Tomcats in the second half.  Just being able to defend the Option in the first half is the key.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2006, 05:57:18 PM
BD,

You corrected yourself with Bob before, but I feel the same way he did about calling the win in St. Louis huge.  I do get what you are saying...

To answer the question:  Does CMU get in if Thiel wins going away...

NO:  If they decide that Linfield's 2 in region losses are good enough to put them in, regardless of what travel could be involved.

YES:  If the committee if looking at only at how much they'll spend with travel requirements. 

CMU's schedule is not the greatest as all have admitted, BUT they can't deny the Tartans a spot should they win out.  As Pat Coleman says " If the team wins all the games they have placed on the schedule, you have to reward them".

That said, I think Thiel has a great shot on Saturday should they play "assignment football" defensively.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2006, 06:01:55 PM
SW,

I don't think you can base whether or not Thiel will score points based on what the BC players have said.  Keep in mind it will be Senior Day at Thiel and they'll want to go out with a bang.  Those seniors accomplished alot in their careers and no doubt will they be ready to play their final games as Tomcats....and their teammates should be ready to back them up.

We were always tougher in our final game if it was played at home...regardless of record.  Coincidentally the 1999 finale against Carnegie Mellon comes to mind. 

I remember the Tartan coaches being pissed thinking we ran up the score with a TD in the last two minutes.....but it was the effort of a senior who had never seen the endzone that produced that final TD.. you can't hold that against him.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 09, 2006, 06:20:48 PM
Saints Fan...

I'll give you the home field advantage but the rest of it's a wash. Both teams have seniors that got them to this point(CMU to a higher point this year), both have something on the line (spoiler/winning season vs Undefeated season/playoff berth). BC has been whipped by both but players and coaches felt CMU was the best team they played this season.

I'd enjoy seeing Thiel win the game. My point was it will be close and a 9-1 CMU with a competitve loss to 6-4 Thiel will go the playoffs. W & J then will then get the home playoff game in first round.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 09, 2006, 06:34:20 PM
I cant beleive its that time of the week again already. Regular season is coming to a end. Hearts will be played out this week as most in the PAC are playing their final games for some their last ever.

Lets start with MSJ-35 @ TMC-7

TMC can muster no offense with Stellmen out. The hefty lefty cannot throw the ball and it turns into a long day. Carlisle raps up his career with 15 tackles.

GCC-21 @ Merchant Marine-27

Dindinato continues to play well but has no answers for the Marines of the Merchant variety.

Waynesburg - 38 @ Westminster-14

Abels and Daniels finish up their careers with huge games as they both go over 100 yards. Cobb also throws a couple of scores. This one will not be close.

W&J -56 @ Bethany 14

Bethany comes out throwing and blitzing as they have nothing to lose. Talent is the key in this one and Bethany clearly doesnt have it yet. Mendel goes for 160 and 3 td's. Bob Swallow throws two to Tommy Mac and this game is over at halftime. On to the playoffs for the Prez.

AND NOW.....PREPARE YOURSELF FOR THE THE GAME OF THE WEEK

CMU-17 @ THIEL-21

I cannot respect Cmu's schedule what so ever. Yes they are undefeated but come on 28-6 against Hiram. I just cant respect them. I look for Thiel to struggle early with the triple option then figure it out and shut them down. I look for Blankenship to throw a few scores. CMU D will give the Tomcats fits but i like them in this match up. CMU will not make the playoffs if they lose this game.

Good Luck to All

Go W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 07:07:06 PM
I respect your opinion Wes, but to defend the Hiram score, it was the first game of the year and the field was a slop-hole by the end of the first quarter.  Check out the pics in the CMU photo gallery.  Some of them you can't even see the numbers.

I haven't been around long enough to say whether CMU gets in with a loss.  But then again, I am pulling for CMU to win so..........
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 08:00:09 PM
Not to offend anyone here, but I also thought it was funny that most people on here disagree with the gurus that only W&J is a vulnerable Pool B team if they lose.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 09, 2006, 08:09:38 PM
Seems to me it was pretty clear BTD was talking about the win against WUStL as "huge" in the CMU-UAA context not the national context.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 08:44:10 PM
Thanks cwru70.  That was my point, but these guys can take what I say how they want.  I'm not running crap on anybody here.  Just a friendly conversation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 09:13:35 PM
BD, I don't disagree with the gurus.

I have posted that Wesley, Whitworth and CMU are locks, regardless of this week.

I have posted that I believe W&J is in, even with a loss, but I'm not going to wager anything on THAT belief.


Saintsfan, the travel considerations are not supposed to enter the equation until AFTER the selections are made.  Travel is a consideration in the matchups of the teams IN the tournament, not in selecting which teams GET in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 10, 2006, 07:52:03 AM
w&j 63 - bethany 0

see yinz in the playoffs
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 10, 2006, 08:32:08 AM
BD,

I believe CMU will get in regardless at this point also, but you should by looking at your schedule.  It is weak and I would put a 7-2 Linfield team in close consideration against CMU's 9-1 or 10-0 team record.  We don't know if you dodged teams or not, bottom line is your schedule is the worst for any undefeated team right now. 

Maybe a loss in the last week of the season will be a wake up call of how hard you need to play in the playoffs, and maybe your guys wont need a loss and realize the implications.  Take matter in your own hands and force the board to give you a bid with a unblemished season.  Who knows what will play out tommorrow. 

I give you credit no matter what the schedule says you still have to win out and you have done that.  Congrats.

CWRU70,
Of course anything that is stated in this conference is going to be perceived nationally.  I do not mean this in a negative way but this is a PAC forum. and we are not going to be thinking in a UAA state of mind.  We reflect our values to teams of this conference.  We are either ex players, fans and followers of these teams.  I like the conversations we have with BDTartan and yourself and urge you to stay here.  Cause we will talk about your teams also.  Interesting topic with conflicting sides and beliefs. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2006, 08:47:46 AM
What do you guys expect BD and cwru??  Across the nation, CMU is going to have to do well and earn some respect.  9-0 against weak competition....THAT's the way it is.  Same thing that Thiel went through last year....on here AND on its opponents threads they took a shellacking.

I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but I swear its nothing personal against you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AC24#724 on November 10, 2006, 09:52:13 AM
Swammys' PAC year end seasons selection, now that I am off the Road and can make some picks:

TMC 10
MSJ 24

GCC 14
MM   21

Westminny 10
Waynesburg 23
Weather could cause some havoc for both teams strength, Jackets run games with sloppy field slows down somewhat of speed here , QB at Westminny with slippery ball throwing could pose problems. . Hope the rain holds off till at least half time.
Waynewsburg Senior' s going out with win. Career Records in Books for Abels, records broke from 1966 Rushing yards, Scoring and most TD's......, Daniels also on charts in records books for Jackets as well, All purpose yards and rushing yards. Maybe a little sweeter with win against previous Coach at Waynesburg-Hand.

WJ 42
Bethany10
Another maybe sloppy track here, Run game.O line will be too much for Bethany who had difficult time stopping run game most of season. Not hardly expecting upset here but maybe some calls go big green's way......
not likely..to even keep it close???

TC 17
CMU 21

CMU has some better talent than folks are giving them credit for, yes not to tough schedule but do have some nice dimensions with offense with QB throwing and RB's, not swifty backs, but run hard and have some size there. This should be good match-up to see how TC Defense does against option stuff and also key is how effective TC can run ball that opens things up more for QB.
Payback from last year loss  in store here
Good Luck to all teams for 2006 season on what is yet to come down the road


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 10, 2006, 05:44:52 PM
No hurt feelings here.  I understand CMU has a very weak schedule.  I would love to see them get some stiffer competition next year in their two open dates.  Don;t know who would be available, but right now they've got there three UAA games, home games against GCC and Allegheny, and away games with Rochester, Randolph-Macon, and Bethany.  That's next year with two open dates and 16 starters returning so.................

I also understand that the PAC is a much more national conference than the UAA which is why I said what I said to cwru70. 

And I agree with AC, the schedule may be weak but that doesn't say a whole lot for the talent at CMU.  First 1,000 yd. rusher in 16 years and only the second to do so at CMU.  Another RB averaging 7.5 per carry.  And a stingy defense that only gives up 8 points a game(I know, weak schedule).  Given this wealth of talent and a good majority of it returning in 07' I would like to see CMU get some tougher opponents next year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 10, 2006, 06:25:42 PM
SanintsFan It seems that whenever anyone says anything positive about an up-and-coming team, posters on this and other boards accuse them of delusions of Mt Union.  A 9-0 record is difficult regardless of the quality of the competition.  We aren't saying CMU will rout Thiel, to the contrary we've said it will be a tough game.  Likewise, we haven't said they'd beat W&J if matched in the playoffs.  I don't see anything out of line that has been stated.  CMU and W&J weren't that far appart in the common opponent games to date.  I hope they will meet on the 18th.

BDT, I still think Del Valley is the most promising opponent for CMU next year based upon the Open Dates link.  Rochester is a team on the rise.  Are they on CMU's sched in 08 & 09 as well?  The are on CWRU's.  That would get them half back in the UAA.  Good to cut Hiram loose (although they come back in 08 and 09).  Interesting that despite not having met for a number of years, W&J is still CMU's most played opponent.  I se they get Wittenberg in 08 & 09 as well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 10, 2006, 08:35:36 PM
Rochester is only on the schedule for 07'.  They also cut back on the PAC teams in  their schedule.  They have one open date in 08' and 09'. 

What kind of teams are Ohio Wesleyan and Allegheny?  Kenyon?  They are also on the schedule in 08' and 09'.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 08:02:12 AM
BD, despite the fact that I cover the PAC, I'm rooting for the Andrew Tartans (Carnegie & Mellon).

Nothing would I enjoy more than an opening-round NCAA matchup of CMU & W&J.  Your place, our place, anyplace.

I'm one of the very few posters on this board that actually remember the Presidents & Tartans playing every year, and the battles they were.

And, as I've mentioned before, a W&J win would give me an opportunity to rub it in to my MENSA older brother (CMU '74).

My the turf rise up to meet your feet.  My the sun shine always on your back.  Good luck, godspeed and, hopefully, see you next week.

Sorry, Tomcats, just can't bring root for you this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2006, 11:38:15 AM
Last Minute last Week of the season Predictions from the Cartel....

WJ vs Bisons...

Presidents take care of business and wrap up another solid season in the PAC by goign 9-1 and the only loss to a very talented Salisbury team.

45-7
TJ parker wraps up a solid career but not a very good outing today for the Bisons.  Will South WIlly's dreams of Cruse re-writing the record books at Bethany.  Stay Tuned!


GCC vs MM

GCC Didonato try to get the team on track for a better showing next year but they just dont have enough ammo in the barrell...

GCC 14
MM 28

Waynesburg vs WC

The Jackets wrap up to stellar careers for their dual runningbacks with Daniels and Abels scoring a few TD's and both running for over 100 yards.

Jackets 35
WC 14

Game of the Week:

CMU vs TC

What will be a wet and rainy day in ALumni Stadium.

Thiel's Darkside Defense will be amped to stop the run in the first half, but CMU will continue to stick with what has got them to 9-0 and run the ball inside and outside.  Solid numbers will be put up by CMU, but THiel will rely on the bend but dont break defense.  And Blankenship and Minton get the Thiel O rolling in the second half to skate away with the victory.

Final from Greenville:
TC 27
CMU 21
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2006, 11:39:07 AM
Good luck to all PAC teams and Seniors today....

And to WJ stay healthy so you are ready to take your game to the next level against whoever your foe will be. 

 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CMURyan on November 11, 2006, 03:31:09 PM
Well, you were basically right about Thiel's "bend-don't-break" defense, but CMU's defense didn't even bend until Thiel went into the two minute drill.  Looks like a WJ-CMU matchup next weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2006, 04:48:38 PM
TMC 21
MSJ 17

F

Great win for the Saints' Seniors.


Congrats to CMU
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 11, 2006, 07:38:35 PM
It "looks" like we are playing W&J but I'm waiting til' tomorrow to start counting my chickens.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BVHawk on November 11, 2006, 10:05:53 PM
Congrats to Washington & Jefferson on making the playoffs!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 12, 2006, 12:23:35 AM
Congrats to WJ and CMU in making the playoffs!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 12:29:05 AM
Yeah, but let's wait til' tomorrow to be sure, and let's see if they get a chance to face-off in the first round.

I just wish there was some way to watch it.  I personally don't get ESPNews.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BVHawk on November 12, 2006, 09:34:07 AM
Don't they usually webcast it from the D3Football.com website?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BVHawk on November 12, 2006, 09:36:49 AM
Regardless, I should be able to watch it and will try to post the results (good news I have a feeling) ASAP.  Not guaranteeing that I'll be the first to respond though, but I should be close!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 12, 2006, 11:24:18 AM
Bd,

To my knowledge D3 has no live feed from the Selection show on to the site.  THose with ESPN news will get this feed.  I believe one year they also simultanesly had the broadcast on ESPN 2 awhile back for those who did not recieve ESPN news.  Maybe we will have a shot today....

Great Game yesterday with the TOmcats and CMU....I was truly impressed with the efficiency and stubborness on the defensive side of the ball.  If a WJ vs CMU matchup is drawn it will be a tremendous game for the PA schools.  THe stubborn defense vs the explosive offense.  It will be interesting to see who has the better game plan goign into that week if it is predicted as everyone expects.

COngrats again on the victory.....And goodluck with Next week CMU and PREZ!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 12:50:41 PM
Yes, the Tartan D is quite stingy.  They only gave up more than 7 points twice all year(again, weak schedule) and statistically did well too.  My only fear is that the D has a penchant to give up big plays here and there.  The only big play for Thiel yesterday was the TD and that was blown coverage by a safety.  The WR caught the ball in the endzone with not a white shirt in sight.  I'm not worried a bunch considering that everytime I've seen them get gashed they come right back and hit you in the mouth.  We'll see what happens, but if W&J and CMU meet up then I expect a great game.  Hopefully the emotions from the past and why CMU won't schedule them in the regular season won't creep up and put the players on edge.  I don't know what was going on yesterday at Thiel but most of the Tomcats acted like CMU stole their candy.  Lots of hitting going on after the whistle and a couple uncalled for shots on CMU guys standing around waiting for a punt to be downed.  I wouldn't say they played dirty, they just seemed frustrated.

By the way, congrats to Thomas Moore for knocking off previously unbeaten MSJ.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:22:52 PM
BD, I SURE HOPE CMU gets a home game in the South Region.

I'm afraid what issues the Pittsburgh City Police might have with trying to secure all of the bridges should you be disappointed....

Just kidding.  Hoping to see you next week at Gesling.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 01:42:56 PM
Yeah, you'll know shortly.  I just talked to my brother and I guess the team is getting ready to sit down and watch the Selection Show on ESPNews. 

Besides, the engineering students at CMU can fix any bridge problem the city of Pittsburgh could possibly have.   ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:47:31 PM
But they can't fix a the blockages created when a disgruntled fan if feared to be preparing to jump....

Add to the problems--the late Steelers game kickoff.  It should be noted that it is the kickoff that is LATE, NOT the Steelers (at least not yet).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 01:53:34 PM
Haha, right there.  But I'm sure most CMU fans are exstatic that their team is even 10-0 and in the playoff hunt.

As far as the Steelers go..............I'm from Ohio, born and raised Browns fan.................I hope the Squeelers lose another one.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: CNULifer on October 06, 2006, 11:04:06 PM
.....I know from past experience that your W&J teams have had great offenses.  maybe you should try some D.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2006, 07:07:55 AM
Who knows, Lifer?

CNU runs the table, the Presidents do the same, and you guys might get a look at the Presidents' D....

Well, here we are now, just like I said on October 7th...  See you Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 12, 2006, 05:29:08 PM
Congrats to W&J on getting in the playoffs and winning the PAC. Represent the PAC well in the playoffs and I hope to see a meeting in PGH between CMU and W&J in the second round.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2006, 05:31:07 PM
Congrats to W&J and well wishes on their new season.  Get us one down in VA.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 08:22:27 PM
CMU and W&J won't match up until the regional finals.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2006, 09:16:33 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 08:22:27 PM
CMU and W&J won't match up until the regional finals.

I think you could have ended the post after "....won't match up."

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cleveland connection on November 13, 2006, 09:32:58 AM
Congratulations to the prez, cnu could never hang with us...in the second half. make sure you dominate the whole game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 13, 2006, 09:45:36 AM
Let the Prez roll. It seems like every year the Prez are playing either Bridgewater or CNU in the first round of the playoffs. Nice win for the Brownies Connection.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 13, 2006, 11:23:06 AM
Congrats to W & J and good luck in the playoffs. It was a cold wet mess in Bethany and I'm glad to be back in S Fla. The only good news on Saturday for BC and their opponents is that BC will install a new turf field and track to be ready for next season.
SaintsFAN...Congrats on a great win Saturday. I had a feeling you would get the job done.

No experience with the d3 playoffs but it seemed strange to see a few 7-3 teams in the brackets??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 11:28:46 AM
They earned their automatic bids the same way the 9-1 and 10-0 teams did.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 01:11:27 PM
Quote from: cleveland connection on November 13, 2006, 09:32:58 AM
Congratulations to the prez, cnu could never hang with us...in the second half. make sure you dominate the whole game.

hehehehehe.....see you Saturday!  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cleveland connection on November 13, 2006, 07:02:58 PM
it was a good win. im no genius, but kamerion wimbley is a player. he chased down vick a few times and i was, "wowed."

I am finally glad w&j can run the ball now...what is cnu's defense like? I was surprised to see roland hilliard still around down there, how was his year? updates from anybody?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 08:32:11 PM
Cleveland...Hilliard had 1,000 yds + and I believe 15 TDs for the year. A few more yards Saturday and he'll have 3,000 for his career.

CNU's D - is Scary Fast. DB Rodriquez was pre-season All-American. They can hit pretty hard too! that's all I'll say for now...I'm sure the coaches have enuff game film to put togther a game plan.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 14, 2006, 09:46:22 AM
BANE TRAIN. Andy Shook, with 4 interceptions his senior season is the last president linebacker to have more than one interception in a season, Aaron Bane had an opportunity to get his second this season against bethany unfortunately he has gator arms. on the plus side bane should get an opportunity this week against Newport. Faison has thrown 9 picks this season and is very inconsistent completing about half of has throws. the last two times w&j and newport have met the presidents shutout the captains in the second half i look forward to the w&j defense putting a complete game together this week. stop the run and force young QB todd faison into making mistakes. their lineman are fat and slow should be easy to create some pressure big game for brodland.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 14, 2006, 09:49:17 AM
Please refer to "newport" as Christopher Newport or CNU.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 14, 2006, 09:50:11 AM
Wow fat and slow linemen?? How would you know that unless you are a player and you watched film on a different team that Ive been watching all year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 14, 2006, 09:53:31 AM
ok newport has fat, slow, and lazy linemen
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 14, 2006, 09:59:00 AM
Ernie, how do you know so much about Newport?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 14, 2006, 10:00:16 AM
I love it when people disregard things.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 14, 2006, 10:01:13 AM
ernie is a fan of D3 football and a very succesful business man who travels to VA a lot and has been to a few newport games
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 14, 2006, 10:05:07 AM
Guess your a jefferson fan too, or are you a washington groupie?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 14, 2006, 10:19:52 AM
Ernie you must be a Washington groupy if you think Jefferson can beat Newport.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 14, 2006, 10:26:01 AM
jefferson is ok. sometimes i think he is trying to hit on peg tho. i try not to associate with washington too much unless newport is around.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 10:32:12 AM
Dang...I cam erushing onto this board to help out CNU fans.......but it's not needed. Erniefreestyle has obvious issues and I can't pick on him....it'd be too easy. Let's just let the fat, slow, lazy linemen at CNU do the talking on Saturday!!!

Hey....anybody want to cut and paste those remarks for the locker room?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 14, 2006, 10:34:10 AM
Newport should put that their lineman are slow fat and lazy on the locker room wall, we all know the game is won on here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 14, 2006, 09:49:17 AM
Please refer to "newport" as Christopher Newport or CNU.

Thanks.

a little touchy? Newport is OK.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 14, 2006, 10:49:48 AM
Dannnnnnnng... Newport should already know the games are won and lost by talking on post boards if they want to tell their linemen they are fat slow and lazy but putting it in their locker room that is their own business
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 10:51:49 AM
HEHEHE...Bring it on!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 10:53:03 AM
Hilliard should be National Player of the Year ...since he got all 1,000 plus yards and 15 TDs behind a fat, slow, lazy , O-Line!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 14, 2006, 11:14:42 AM
mendels stats are better than hilliard and he too lined up behind a fat and slow offensive line, not too lazy tho
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 14, 2006, 11:34:33 AM
If I were a lineman, I wouldn't mind being called fat and slow, I'm sure every RB agrees.  I think lazy just comes with the O-lineman territory
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 14, 2006, 12:26:35 PM
the only thing lineman can strive to be is sweet and no one is sweeter than teter
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 14, 2006, 01:58:00 PM
Fat and slow is what we as oline are. CNU looks to be what they normally are when we played them in the past. Fast aggresive but small D and a ground controlled offense that doesnt have to many big strike guys. Games are usually close but the team with the most Offense usually wins. I like W&J in that department as i think their fat and slow o line is better than CNU. No one is sweeter than teter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 14, 2006, 08:24:56 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 10:32:12 AM
Dang...I cam erushing onto this board to help out CNU fans.......but it's not needed. Erniefreestyle has obvious issues and I can't pick on him....it'd be too easy. Let's just let the fat, slow, lazy linemen at CNU do the talking on Saturday!!!

Hey....anybody want to cut and paste those remarks for the locker room?

1.) Direct your mouse to the upper left hand corner and click on 'File'.
2.) Direct mouse down until you click on 'Print'.
3.) Go to your printer and take piece of paper with message above.
4.) Drive to Krispy Kremes, order a dozen donuts.
5.) Attach printed message to donuts
6.) Give to newports 'team leader' of the offensive line.





Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 15, 2006, 11:05:41 AM
BURGH BOY and Crew,

I hope those remarks would not be pasted and put in the locker room for CNU.  If that is what it takes to get CNU  "JACKED UP" to play WJ this saturday than they shouldn't be in the position they are currently. 

Which is obviously not the case, but pretty sad if this posts from the PAC forum on d3football from a bunch of alumni and ex-players is going to be used as motivational material.

If you want some bulletin board material go to WJ website:

QuoteThe Presidents (9-1) and Captains (8-2) will meet for the third time in the past five seasons in the NCAA playoffs with W&J winning the prior two contests.  Washington & Jefferson earned a 24-10 victory over CNU at Cameron Stadium in the first round of the 2002 playoffs and then posted a 24-14 home triumph in the second round of the 2004 playoffs.

Seems as if the Prez have the shut down CNU in 2 out of 3 meetings.  If i were CNU senior today I would have that 2004 game in the back of my mind and this saturday is your redemption day.  The Prez have the leg up whether its coaching or talent, and if I am CNU saturday is an opportunity to payback to the team who knocked you out in 04. 

Payback's a blank........

Can CNU pay it back?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 15, 2006, 11:43:05 AM
Cartel...you are 100% right on target!

Burghboy - can't find my mouse...an O-lineman must've eaten it!!  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 15, 2006, 12:03:45 PM
CC...

I like Joe Tuscano's story in the Washington paper. All this talk about W & J vs CNU and it doesn't even seem like the game should have been scheduled. W & J vs CMU would have been a great first round game.

I also think it's interesting that the NCAA committee can put the brackets together without an explanation to or questions from anyone. Even the NCAA D1 basketball committee discusses and explains their placements.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 12:12:25 PM
South,

While I would have enjoyed the W&J/CMU game, it should NOT have been scheduled.  Had the NCAA not fouled up the mileage situation, W&J WOULD have been flying to HSU for the first round.

The Mellons are the four seed in the bracket.  Christopher Newport is the five seed and SHOULD be playing at Carnegie-Mellon.  W&J, as the six seed should be at #3 HSU.  Trinity should host Millsaps and W&L/Dickinson at Wesley.

The Regional Rankings, for several weeks, disregarded the published criteria, listing W&J ahead of CNU.

The Captains finished with the same in-region record as the Presidents.  They finished with a higher QOWI index.  They finished with a win against a regionally-ranked opponent (UMHB).  They finished with a win against a common opponent (Salisbury) that the Presidents lost to.

The National Committee, correctly, seeded CNU 5th, ahead of the Presidents.  The ONLY reason W&J is playing CNU and not HSU is Mileage-Gate '06.

CMU/W&J would have been fun.  It would have drawn many more people than Millsaps/CMU.  It would have generated additional income and reduced expenses.  It also would have added to Bracket-Gate '06.

While I would rather be sleeping in my own bed Friday night sted a hotel room somewhere in northern Virginia on my way to Newport News, that would have opened the door to yet another charge of dereliction of duty against the oft-maligned NCAA.

No, Joe's article, while it sounds good, comes up short on the facts of the matter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2006, 12:31:31 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 12:12:25 PM
South,

While I would have enjoyed the W&J/CMU game, it should NOT have been scheduled.  Had the NCAA not fouled up the mileage situation, W&J SHOULD have been flying to HSU for the first round.

The Mellons are the four seed in the bracket.  Christopher Newport is the five seed and SHOULD be playing at Carnegie-Mellon.  W&J, as the six seed should be at #3 HSU.  Trinity should host Millsaps and W&L/Dickinson at Wesley.

The Regional Rankings, for several weeks, disregarded the published criteria, listing W&J ahead of CNU.

The Captains finished with the same in-region record as the Presidents.  They finished with a higher QOWI index.  They finished with a win against a regionally-ranked opponent (UMHB).  They finished with a win against a common opponent (Salisbury) that the Presidents lost to.

The National Committee, correctly, seeded CNU 5th, ahead of the Presidents.  The ONLY reason W&J is playing CNU and not HSU is Mileage-Gate '06.

CMU/W&J would have been fun.  It would have drawn many more people than Millsaps/CMU.  It would have generated additional income and reduced expenses.  It also would have added to Bracket-Gate '06.

While I would rather be sleeping in my own bed Friday night sted a hotel room somewhere in northern Virginia on my way to Newport News, that would have opened the door to yet another charge of dereliction of duty against the oft-maligned NCAA.

No, Joe's article, while it sounds good, comes up short on the facts of the matter.

+1 karma, bob!  Excellent discussion of the situation.

As the recipient of NCAA Bracket-logic, I would have conceded reverse bracket logic in a CMU-W&J game for these reasons.

#3 HSU is either the 2nd or the 3rd team selected in Pool C. (Capital, then either UW-L or HSU.  HSU beat also UW-SP, and every bit as convincingly as UW-L.)
#4 CMU gets a home game.
#5 CNU has to go on the road.  Strict bracketing should send them to CMU, where I believe they would have won.  Instead, they are the beneficiary of HSU's mis-fortune.
#6  W&J should go on the road.  A quick trip into CMU minimizes lost classtime and gets the student-athletes back to Washington, PA by 6pm Sat night.  That also saves money!
#7  Millsaps can be rightly bussed to UMHB.

For all of the clamoring by some CNU fans, they are the big winners in this one.  I think that they got the easiest draw possible (#6 W&J).  They get (HSU's) home game.  And, as a #4/#5-type seed, they get on the other side of the bracket from Wesley!

The committee could have just looked at Pat's bracket on the projections page, said that is close enough to what they saw in the numbers, used that as the bracket and be done with it, and few woudl have known any difference.  (If the Millsaps-to-UMHB mileage data had been present for the selection committee's use, I wonder if we might not have seen it happen.)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 12:35:48 PM
Thanks, Ralph.

I'm always in favor of doing things right.

I was guilty of overlooking the misplaced regional rankings for two weeks.
In fact, I overlooked them putting my brackets together, then realized when I was looking at them for about the fourth time....

CNU is benefitting, and they're out there, crowing "We should be at home".  Sorry, fellas.  You're at home--it's a gift from Mileage-Gate '06.  Take it and be happy.

The pre-announcement WHINING without providing cheese for the rest of us was rather unbecoming.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 15, 2006, 12:57:00 PM
Ralph and Bob,

I understand completely the "Mileage-Gate 06." 
I understand how they want to save on travel costs, and have the drives for the families of these kids shortened so they can watch their kids possible last football game of their careers.

And that this is not the NFL, NBA, or MLB where they have a diverse flow of revenue coming into the leagues.

What I am indifferent about is their strategy in altering these games.  As you stated CNU are the real winners in this process, but if they were to let the chips fall were they are supposed to just like in the MLB,NBA, NFL.    Would we be talking about the same matchups for all these teams?  Probably not, and with that being said do you feel a coach would rather fly or drive the extra miles to have a matchup against a team he feels confident they could beat. 

From what your saying is CNU got the benefit with Home field advantage which HSU should of recieved and you believe that CNU got the best Matchup draw against #6 WJ. 

Last few weeks this board has been drueling over a WJ at CMU matchup in the Burgh!  And personally thats a great matchup for WJ, and pretty much a home game also cause its only 45 minutes or so away, with lots of alumni in the Pittsburgh area from WJ. 

Maybe I am wrong they are 2-3 against CNU in the playoffs over the last 5 years according to the article!!!

Sounds as if WJ got the worse of this NCAA strategy...

When will the NCAA let the chips fall by themselves and not strategize over location, location, and location?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 01:06:59 PM
W&J is 2-0 vs. the Captains in the playoffs.

2002 first round game, W&J 24, CNU 10:
W&J moved at will in first half, scoring tds on two of first 3 possesions.
Fumble in CNU territory on second possession, downs inside the 30 on fourth and missed FG on the fifth possession. 

Captains held to four first downs and 78 yards offense in second half.  Meanwhile, only two W&J turnovers stopped Presidents, scoring field goal, touchdown and kneeling down at the Captain's 15 to end the game on the three other second-half possesions.  W&J held ball for the final 8:24 of the game.


2004 second round game, W&J 24, CNU 14:
Captains led 14-7 at the half.  Once again, failed to score in second half as W&J put up 17 third quarter points for win.  Captains gained just 129 yards after intermission.  Presidents score td, td, field goal on first three possession of second half.

Seven consecutive punts between the teams after 24-14 score.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 15, 2006, 01:14:51 PM
Bob,

So is driving 200-300 miles and playing a team WJ has beaten in the past better than staying at home in the Burgh? and playing a team who has had a reasonably weak schedule and who WJ could exploit in the passing game?
And played a conference rival who WJ has also played and beat this season.

From the sounds of your response it seems as if the coaches are comfortable playing at CNU?!?!??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 01:32:32 PM
Cleveland,

I am not a coach.  I don't speak for the coaches.

In fact, because of a snafu here in Washington, I haven't even spoken TO the coaches.

My posts have nothing to do with whether W&J's road is easier or harder, more favorable or less.  And it's 415 miles each way to CNU.

My post specifically dealt with the correctness of the matchups, and that the desired (by some) matchup of W&J & CMU would have been wrong based on the criteria published by the NCAA.  Not that they didn't do that in other cases, but that doesn't make doing it again right.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Rick Akins on November 15, 2006, 01:51:38 PM
I have ranted in other places on this site about the bracket fiasco.  Bob, great discussion of the exact seeding issues. Ralph, I agree 100% with your analysis of the even more common sense idea (see d3 football playoff projections) of W & J at CMU--30 minutes away!!!  If you want me to fax or email you Ralph the Eric Drennan column from the Temple Telegram yesterday , let me know.  The quotes from Mr. Burrow of the ncaa were mind-boggling about the Millsaps bus ride, etc.  The only thing as bad as what was done is the pathetic attempt to justify it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 15, 2006, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 12:35:48 PM

CNU is benefitting, and they're out there, crowing "We should be at home".  Sorry, fellas.  You're at home--it's a gift from Mileage-Gate '06.  Take it and be happy.


Thanks! I'm happy! No more whining from me!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 15, 2006, 02:14:48 PM
To All,

Thanks for all the information. It seems simple. Why couldn't we get a #4 vs #6 and #5 vs #7 since we already got a #2 vs #3. The two teams traveling makes no sense and there doesn't appear to be any argument to support it. As CC said, let the chips fall where they fall or screw with all the rules to the benefit of all brackets.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 04:21:06 PM
This bracket looks significantly different with the MAPPOINT calculations sted the "mileage chart".

#1  Wesley hosts Dickinson (no change)
#2  UMHB hosts Millsaps
#3  Hardin-Simmons hosts W&J
#4  Carnegie-Mellon hosts CNU

Having just typed that, it's not really a mileage issue that caused this.  If CMU hosts CNU, some people would think it was a scrimmage game, with Big Bird, Elmo and the gang performing at halftime..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 15, 2006, 04:24:33 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 04:21:06 PM

Having just typed that, it's not really a mileage issue that caused this.  If CMU hosts CNU, some people would think it was a scrimmage game, with Big Bird, Elmo and the gang performing at halftime..

In the words of Mork.....R-R-R
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 04:26:00 PM
There've been postings about the Captains benefitting from the snafu.  And, looking strictly at numbers and seedings and such, CNU is benefitting.   But they aren't alone from that standpoint.

#5  CNU plays #6 W&J instead of #4  CMU.  The Captains also play at home, sted in Pittsburgh.

#4  CMU draws the #7 Millsaps instead of #5 CNU.

#6  W&J plays, still on the road, but at #5 CNU instead of #3 HSU.  Of course, it's a bus ride (6+ hours) instead of a flight....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 04:41:25 PM
CMU--Carnegie-Mellon
CNU--Christopher Newport
COU--Council of Ontario Universities (travel issues)
CPU--Central Processing Unit (NCAA's doesn't work)
CQU--Central Queensland University (travel issues)
CRU--Conflict Resolution Unit (Puget Sound area--serious travel issues)
CSU--Charles Stewart University (Australia--talk about travel??)
CTU--Counter Terrorist Unit (talk about taking out the enemy)
CUU--Conference on Universal Usability (NCAA should have attended with MAPPOINT in hand)
CVU--Cluster Verification Utility (yup, it was a cluster action alright)
CWU--Communications Workers Union ('can you hear me NOW?!!')
CXU--"Cxu vi parolas Esperanton?"  I have absolutely no idea..

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 15, 2006, 05:12:13 PM
Bob,

Do not find that to defeating the purpose of rankings if you are not going to obide by them because of location?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2006, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 04:26:00 PM
There've been postings about the Captains benefitting from the snafu.  And, looking strictly at numbers and seedings and such, CNU is benefitting.   But they aren't alone from that standpoint.

#5  CNU plays #6 W&J instead of #4  CMU.  The Captains also play at home, sted in Pittsburgh.

#4  CMU draws the #7 Millsaps instead of #5 CNU.

#6  W&J plays, still on the road, but at #5 CNU instead of #3 HSU.  Of course, it's a bus ride (6+ hours) instead of a flight....

#7 Millsaps gets #4 CMU instead of #2 UMHB!  They are my upset special! ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 16, 2006, 02:33:25 PM
that was two of the most boring pages i have ever browsed through on post board i couldnt even read the crap yinz were discussing bottom line is the bracket is out, we know who everyone is playing, nothing is going to change, STOP WHINNING. lets go back to talking about how sweet teter is and how good of a kicker kyle sidebotham is.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 02:38:58 PM
Always good to hear from you, freestyle.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 16, 2006, 03:33:01 PM
Ernie, maybe you need to leave freestyle, you've been there too long,  because Popson should have been 1st team PAC over Sidebopper.  And Bob, don't take that from him, he must be mad that you never said his name when he played at w&j, whenever that was.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 03:34:26 PM
Actually, I think I probably said HIS name alot more often than I said YOUR name, Warrior.....  Well, maybe it was close.

Of course, with his high school background, understanding the logic problems the NCAA presented us would be difficult.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on November 16, 2006, 03:49:12 PM
Please, we have read enough about the Mendel/Abels comparisons. Let's not start with the kickers. Aren't there more pressing matters to consider, like this weekend's playoff game!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cnusfinest54 on November 17, 2006, 01:34:18 AM
I might be late but let me just set the record straight.  In both 2002 and 2004 W&J benefited from the fact that CNU's offense could not score against a suspect defense.  In both seasons the very next week the same W&J defense gave up 40 plus points in loss.  Especially in 2004 24 points should have been a blowout win for the Captains but once again the Captains let an even more suspect defense shut them down.  1st round BC 48 W&J 55 2nd round CNU 14- W&J 24 3rd round UMHB 52-W&J 16. So don't act like those W&J teams were so much more dominant than CNU's teams. If CNU offense can get their act together and at least score the playoff average a W&J defense gives up we will be just fine.

You play the hand you are dealt but CNU has never had the luxury of fielding a dominant offensive team in the post season. This years offense might have the most balance of the previous 2 teams W&J has faced, so Im hoping they take advantage of the mighty presidents.  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 07:47:00 AM
Quote from: cnusfinest54 on November 17, 2006, 01:34:18 AM
...W&J benefited from the fact that CNU's offense could not score against a suspect defense. 
The CNU offense of '02 & '04 apparently was significantly more "suspect" than the W&J defense.

Quote from: cnusfinest54 on November 17, 2006, 01:34:18 AM
...So don't act like those W&J teams were so much more dominant than CNU's teams.
CNU didn't score in the second half of either game.  How much MORE dominant can one team be than the other?

Quote from: cnusfinest54 on November 17, 2006, 01:34:18 AM
If CNU offense can get their act together and at least score the playoff average a W&J defense gives up we will be just fine.
Perhaps, the other teams W&J played those seasons were better teams than CNU...novel idea, huh?

Quote from: cnusfinest54 on November 17, 2006, 01:34:18 AM
...This years offense might have the most balance of the previous 2 teams W&J has faced, so Im hoping they take advantage of the mighty Presidents.
The CNU offense does appear to have a nice balance, though the TD/INT ratio leaves a little to be desired....small detail perhaps.
This W&J defense, overall, is not the best the Captains playoff teams will have faced.  But they'll show up in Newport News on Saturday.

Perhaps CNU will score 50 on the "suspect" W&J defense, like W&J's other opponents in '02 & '04.  Perhaps they won't.

Perhaps CNU unmentioned defense will hold the Presidents down.  Perhaps they won't.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2006, 10:40:35 AM
W&J 23
CNU 13

Get one more for the PAC, Presidents.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 17, 2006, 11:52:15 AM
Saints Fan nice predition. I agree 21-10 W&J over CNU. To CNU85 If i am not mistaken as well those W&J defenses gave up 50 points to Texas teams that went to the Stagg Bowl and would have dropped a quick 50 on CNU as well. Also the Bridgewater 04 team had a very good offense and overall seemed like a better team than CNU even though CNU did beat them that year. Whomever wins the CNU W&J game is going to have a tough go around in Texas. Yes CNU beat UMHB in the regular season but i believe that they will not have the same success in the playoffs provided each of those teams win this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
I can't see Presidents D holding CNU to under 2 tds.  Just can't see it.

The Red & Black are going to have to be nearly flawless offensively Saturday.

Gotta get touchdowns when they're available.  Gotta hold the ball.

Kick cover unit is going to have plenty of pressure with Captains' speed.

Zach's gotta punt like he did early, not like he has lately.


Presidents win, but I'm thinking 24-21, something like that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2006, 12:08:36 PM
Wes....I didn't say anything about points being scored or whatver...that was the other CNU guy.

Bob - I agree with what you said in last post.....BUT.....when we beat Averett we shut them down in the second half (shutout) and I mentioned the word dominated......but got destroyed on the boards....I do think if you shutout someone, that's dominating...but others don't agree with me.

I also think that CNU's offense must have been suspect in 02 or 04 or that the W&J D maybe wasn't as suspect...either way we got the L and went home!!

Have a safe trip out here tomorrow!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:19:06 PM
85, thanks for the safe-travel note.  We're doing a High School District semfinal tonight, then heading out.  I'm driving as far as I can get tonight.

All shutouts aren't dominating, as you well know.  The one year, the Presidents DOMINATED CNU in the second half.  The other they just kept them off the scoreboard.

Popup around the press box tomorrow (if you can) and intro yourself.

I'll be the guy with the olive green pants and the red plaid shirt (I know, should save the tartan look for the Tartans, but I only have so many presentable outfits to wear in public--wife picked this one)...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on November 17, 2006, 12:34:37 PM
W&J 38
CNU 28

Swallow brings his best game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 17, 2006, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:19:06 PM
85, thanks for the safe-travel note.  We're doing a High School District semfinal tonight, then heading out.  I'm driving as far as I can get tonight.

All shutouts aren't dominating, as you well know.  The one year, the Presidents DOMINATED CNU in the second half.  The other they just kept them off the scoreboard.

Popup around the press box tomorrow (if you can) and intro yourself.

I'll be the guy with the olive green pants and the red plaid shirt (I know, should save the tartan look for the Tartans, but I only have so many presentable outfits to wear in public--wife picked this one)...

Hey Bob,

If you get a chance and aren't too busy setting up in the morning stop by and say hey at the tailgate. Stone Station is going on the road with the help of CNU85. We should be near the field in a Grey Expedition with Stone Station banner hanging out the back. From what I here so far, Kid, 85, WcLegacy and a few other posters will be present. We should be in place by 10:15am. I'll have a brat or dog waiting if interested. ;)

Safe Travels!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 17, 2006, 03:40:19 PM
Good Luck to both W & J and CMU

W & J...28
CNU.....24

I agree, Swallow will be the difference.

CMU...... .21
Millsaps..10

CMU defense is the real deal!!!!

OSU...31
Mich...28
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 17, 2006, 04:09:22 PM
CNU 85 i apologize for throwing you in on that statement earlier you were not the poster of that message. Wish i could come to virginia as it is probably a lot warmer there than here in Northwest PA where it is snowing.

I also would like to throw a couple of other predictions in as well like South.

Millsaps - 28 CMU-24

I think this will be a shootout. I like Millsaps for the fact that they beat texas teams and have a wide open passing attack. I cant believe they have that type of offense when Dubose is the head coach as Alabama when he was there was pretty run oriented. I think CMU will have success as they have a potent run game out of the wing T which is hard to defend.

Michigan- 17 @ OSU-14

I like Big Blue with the run game and the D in this one. I think they have the D to keep Troy Smith in check. Smith struggled against a fast and agressive Penn State D early in the year and threw a couple of picks.

Good Luck to all Playoffs participants

Go W&J
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2006, 07:17:39 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
I can't see Presidents D holding CNU to under 2 tds.  Just can't see it.

The Red & Black are going to have to be nearly flawless offensively Saturday.

Gotta get touchdowns when they're available.  Gotta hold the ball.

Kick cover unit is going to have plenty of pressure with Captains' speed.

Zach's gotta punt like he did early, not like he has lately.


Presidents win, but I'm thinking 24-21, something like that.

Bob, my score prediction is based on CNU scoring two TD's and having a PAT blocked but a big ugly from W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2006, 10:12:51 PM
Yeah Bob,

Stop by the Bridgewater Stone Station party!! They have good food and beer!!! Nice guys, too! I feel honored to be invited to partake with those guys!! If you can't mak it...push Tommasion out of the way and stick your head out.....I'll be in the second to last row just under the press box...50 yard line!

Pat Coleman - thanks for this site!! I've met some great people....the BC guys, JT from Rowan...Legacy, even a few CNU folks I wouldn't normally have met...ran into Captj tonight at the hoops game and Goose..... ;D You can never meet too many good people! This site made it happen!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cnusfinest54 on November 18, 2006, 12:25:32 AM
Bob Gregg by all means W&J won both playoff games.  But you just can't simply say that they dominated CNU in both games.  Find me a CNU fan that will use the word dominant and CNU offense in the same sentence. So saying that they shut CNU out in the 2nd half is kind of a weak point.  But oh well the past is the past but all I am saying is that the Presidents better respect the future.

Not sure what the score will be but CNU will come out on top.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2006, 12:43:10 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 17, 2006, 10:12:51 PM
Yeah Bob,

Stop by the Bridgewater Stone Station party!! They have good food and beer!!! Nice guys, too! I feel honored to be invited to partake with those guys!! If you can't mak it...push Tommasion out of the way and stick your head out.....I'll be in the second to last row just under the press box...50 yard line!

Pat Coleman - thanks for this site!! I've met some great people....the BC guys, JT from Rowan...Legacy, even a few CNU folks I wouldn't normally have met...ran into Captj tonight at the hoops game and Goose..... ;D You can never meet too many good people! This site made it happen!

Thanks -- that was a totally unintended consequence of creating the site but I have enjoyed watching fans from opposing sides interact on the board and later in person. Fans have used this site to enhance the D-III community and I love it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2006, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 17, 2006, 02:34:47 PM
If you get a chance and aren't too busy setting up in the morning stop by and say hey at the tailgate. Stone Station is going on the road with the help of CNU85. We should be near the field in a Grey Expedition with Stone Station banner hanging out the back. From what I here so far, Kid, 85, WcLegacy and a few other posters will be present. We should be in place by 10:15am. I'll have a brat or dog waiting if interested. ;)

Safe Travels!

So far, so good.  Stafford, VA is as far as my broadcast and travel partner would let me drive.  2:00 am.

Now, up and on the road again.  We'll be at Stone Station, er, Newport News by 9:45 and planning to visit the 'gaters.....


Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:19:06 PM
I'll be the guy with the olive green pants and the red plaid shirt (I know, should save the tartan look for the Tartans, but I only have so many presentable outfits to wear in public--wife picked this one)...
In the spirit of openness, I am, indeed, in the olive pants/red plaid shirt.  Not so much out of choice, but I'm 280 miles from home and that's what my wife packed in the bag....

Good luck to all the playoff teams.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2006, 07:08:17 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2006, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:19:06 PM
I'll be the guy with the olive green pants and the red plaid shirt (I know, should save the tartan look for the Tartans, but I only have so many presentable outfits to wear in public--wife picked this one)...
In the spirit of openness, I am, indeed, in the olive pants/red plaid shirt.  Not so much out of choice, but I'm 280 miles from home and that's what my wife packed in the bag....

That is so sweet!  I'll bet she thinks you look so cute in that outfit!
Her little man... :D :D :D :D :D

My wife doesn't pack for me, but when I got out of the Army, I let her determine the guidelines for may wardrobe.  I purchase nothing outside those guidelines! ;)

Travel safely!  I look forward to your impressions from the game. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 18, 2006, 08:56:46 AM
cut off the sleeves, put on a truckers hat  and Git-R-Done!!!!


That right there was funny, I don't care who you are.......


Lord, please forgive me and bless all the pygmies!


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 18, 2006, 11:59:14 AM
Mark, Bob love the show.

wj - 24
newport - 14
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 18, 2006, 02:37:48 PM
W&J continues to have CNU's number in the playoffs. 27-23. Prez up 27-7 at one point and CNU came storming back. Cherish  the key with 3 picks. D gave up a lot of points and yards but had 5 total INT one returned for a TD.

Whos your Daddy CNU great game though.

We will probably be fathered by a Texas team next week but you never know.

Great Job Prez
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 18, 2006, 02:42:49 PM
Congrats to W & J!!!!

I told you CMU's defense was the real deal and it was even better than than expected.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 18, 2006, 03:31:26 PM
Dang...down 27-0 and cam eback. Second half was great football! I thought we had it up until fumbling the free kick with less than a minute. Too many turnovers.....Cherish, I think that's his name...had 3 picks...always in the right place....

.....so close....

I think CNU had around 450 yds total offense to W&J 180 or so.....proof that turnovers kill!! W&J was opportunistic. Congrats on a hard fought win. Good luck next week!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2006, 07:39:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2006, 07:08:17 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2006, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:19:06 PM
I'll be the guy with the olive green pants and the red plaid shirt (I know, should save the tartan look for the Tartans, but I only have so many presentable outfits to wear in public--wife picked this one)...
In the spirit of openness, I am, indeed, in the olive pants/red plaid shirt.  Not so much out of choice, but I'm 280 miles from home and that's what my wife packed in the bag....

That is so sweet!  I'll bet she thinks you look so cute in that outfit!
Her little man... :D :D :D :D :D

My wife doesn't pack for me, but when I got out of the Army, I let her determine the guidelines for may wardrobe.  I purchase nothing outside those guidelines! ;)

Travel safely!  I look forward to your impressions from the game. ;)

Congratulations to the Presidents and to you, Bob!

I also think that you have found your lucky outfit. ;)

If you get a chance to fly to the UMHB game, then make sure your wife packs it!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2006, 07:59:50 PM
Congrats, Prez.  Way to race out to 27 points and hold on.  Its the playoffs, a win is a win. 

Now get to work and shock D3 in Texas in 7 days....serve notice about the new, parity driven PAC. 

Pat,

I agree.  I would have no contact with great people like formerd3db, who helped me when I was knocked unconscious at Alma in October 1999.  We haven't "met" again since then, but I'm sure one day we will.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2006, 08:05:32 PM
CMU's defense looks to be the real deal....until maybe next week.  They've gone further than alot of teams thought.  Not many teams can dream to be 11-0 at this point in the season.  No matter what happens next weekend, you'll still have this memory.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2006, 10:24:26 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
I can't see Presidents D holding CNU to under 2 tds.  Just can't see it.
And didn't see it!

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
The Red & Black are going to have to be nearly flawless offensively Saturday.
Pretty solid 35:30, but the game is 60:00!!!  Didn't turn it over, but didn't move it either after going up 27-0...

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
Gotta get touchdowns when they're available.  Gotta hold the ball.
Didn't do as well at this as could have been done.  TD drop, overthrown...But did hold the ball when had it in hand.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
Kick cover unit is going to have plenty of pressure with Captains' speed.
Tough to do it much better than was done today!  Outstanding effort, and results.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
Zach's gotta punt like he did early, not like he has lately.
He did both, in that order.  W&J survives.


Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:02:34 PM
Presidents win, but I'm thinking 24-21, something like that.
Okay, it was 27-23...that's 'something like that'....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2006, 10:27:06 PM
Back in PA, just don't tell the wife.

By the way, it's not a lucky outfit, or anything like it.  It's comfortable, and could be worn without a jacket.  That's it.  And it's NOT going to Texas.  (guess I told her, didn't I?)

Nice to put faces with names today.  Great to meet the guys at mobile Stone Station.  Wish we coulda hung around there for a while, then, when we game back post-game, all were gone!!!

Plenty of challenges next week for the Red & Black, but overcame sizable challenges today and got the win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 18, 2006, 10:30:45 PM
Bob,

Stone Station headed to hooters in Richmond to watch the OSU/Mich game! I just waddled abck up the street mumbling something about 6 FREAKIN' TURNOVERS!!

I've seen UMHB and you guys play......Next week is gonna be tough. If UMHB holds on to the ball, they'll put a decent hurting on you guys. Sorry, but that's how I see it!

Hey - it was great to meet you.....and the clothes selection sounded worse than they really were.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 18, 2006, 11:26:02 PM
Good to meet you and your sidekick today Bob. Congrats on a hard fought win. After last night, I'm sure that made the ride home a little more enjoyable. Believe me I know how the ride home from Washington, PA feels after an OT loss. :o

Sorry we missed you after the game. My daughter had a Jump Rope performance at the Eastern Menn. Univ. Bball game at 9pm. I promised the guys I would take them by Hooters in Richmond on the way home. Wings, OSU/Michigan, Beer, and to top it off it was Cheerleader day for the girls. I was partial to the Florida Gator and the UNC Tarheel.  :o We go for the wings but I must admit we probably ate a few bone and all due to one certain distraction, 5'4" Blonde......... :D

Good luck next week in TX!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kelly Boggs on November 19, 2006, 02:32:52 PM
After UMHB stubbed its toe at CNU in the opener, the Purple CRUsh as been tough. Mistakes cost dearly in the 7-3 loss to UWW three weeks ago, but the CRU is starting to roll.

Congrats to W&J on advancing to the second round. Have a safe trip to Central Texas and strap it on tight because the purple fur is going to fly.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jc101 on November 19, 2006, 05:39:28 PM
What are the chances of an all WPA regional final?   ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cruprez on November 19, 2006, 06:16:32 PM
Hey--W&J fans....first, let me say that you are the friendliest people we met when UMHB made their run to the Stagg Bowl last time.....we hope you will pack some warm weather clothes and come to Texas to enjoy our food and some TEXAS football......see you on Saturday.....should be a good game....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2006, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: cruprez on November 19, 2006, 06:16:32 PM
Hey--W&J fans....first, let me say that you are the friendliest people we met when UMHB made their run to the Stagg Bowl last time.....we hope you will pack some warm weather clothes and come to Texas to enjoy our food and some TEXAS football......see you on Saturday.....should be a good game....

and if the weather holds, there are some very nice golf courses in the Temple-Belton-Salado-Bell County area.

Yesterday, one fan lamented that the November weather in the Belton was too good to waste on a football game.  He had rather been golfing, in spite of the score! :D

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 19, 2006, 06:45:39 PM
Early weather forecast for Saturday in Belton:

Saturday
Nov 25 Clear
Hi: 74° Lo: 52°

PRICELESS!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 10:49:31 PM
Congrats Prez and lets turn the tide when it comes to beating these tough Texas teams.

Sidenote,

How is everyone doing on their polls?

13-3 after the first round for the Cartel....

Goodluck Next week Prez and CMU...an All WPA regional would be tremendous representation!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 20, 2006, 10:53:17 AM
CC

15-1 in the first round....Beginners Luck

It would be great to see W & J and CMU pull out tough wins this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: xfactor on November 20, 2006, 02:21:01 PM
Speed up, slow down, turn the page.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2006, 03:08:47 PM
Congrats to TMC's Carlisle on being named Most Valuable Player in the PAC this season.  He's tied for the All-time school record with 445 tackles in his career at Thomas More. 

He's one of 5 first teamers and 13 overall on the All PAC team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BVHawk on November 21, 2006, 01:15:51 PM
Congrats to Washington & Jefferson on their 1st round win!  Best of luck throughout the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2006, 12:32:08 PM
South Willy,

Pretty darn good!  Which team gave you the lone loss after the first round?

I heard on the drudge report that there were snowflakes hitting the ground in south florida last night?  Did you happen to see anything? 


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 22, 2006, 05:19:30 PM
CC...

St John's gave me the loss. I heard there was some snow flurries in the inland parts of Florida but down here on the Sw coast it was a balmy 44 for the overnight low.

My son is home for the week and he says the weather is pretty much the same in Bethany.

I don't think W & J can go another round but I'd like to see CMU's defense keep them in the game this week. Sure has been quite this week in the PAC section.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 22, 2006, 09:50:01 PM
it has been quiet on the post board i havent had much time this week but i found a couple minutes tonight so here we go. Mary splits their rushing duties with two running backs who have put up some good numbers, their QB also has the ability to tuck the ball and take off on the ground and can throw the ball well. at this point in the season every team is good. if mary is expecting the same result as the last time these two teams met they are going to be in for a long day. w&j offense can move the ball and they will put up points. the experienced presidents defense has shown their ability throughout the season, including a first half shutout last week, they will put it together for 4 quarters this weekend. special teams will have to be up to snuff and i believe kyle sidebotham will keep them in line.

BANE IS ABLE
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 22, 2006, 11:39:20 PM
QuoteWhat are the chances of an all WPA regional final? 

0.000001%
    :-X
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on November 23, 2006, 08:47:54 AM
Ernie,

W&J is in way over their heads against UMHB.  Their offense WILL NOT move the ball.  If they didnt move the ball against CNU how would you expect them to move it against this team?? Just wondering where you are getting your reasoning from.  Also, if they gave up that many yards against CNU, expect more this week.  Long day for the Presidents- Congrats to them though because they have played above their talent level and ability all season, they are commended for that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 23, 2006, 10:22:27 AM
old man i dont have the time nor the energy to look up stats right now but w&j offense always has the ability to put the ball in the endzone no matter who they are playing, and i know that w&j has the ability and talent to stop mary you are an absolute idiot for thinking they have played above their talent level and ability all season so i  suggest you go sit on you thumb and spin for your asinine comments.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 23, 2006, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: erniesfreestyle on November 23, 2006, 10:22:27 AM
old man i dont have the time nor the energy to look up stats right now but w&j offense always has the ability to put the ball in the endzone no matter who they are playing, and i know that w&j has the ability and talent to stop mary you are an absolute idiot for thinking they have played above their talent level and ability all season so i  suggest you go sit on you thumb and spin for your asinine comments.

Always?  The playoff record versus Texas teams is far from encouraging:

2004:  UMHB 52, @W&J 16
2002:  @Trinity 45, W&J 10
1999:  @Hardin-Simmons 51, W&J 3
1995:  W&J 28, @Trinity 0

You can bet the Crusaders won't wait for the second half to show up, unlike CNU.  Good luck this weekend ...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2006, 11:26:32 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 23, 2006, 11:00:25 AM
...The playoff record versus Texas teams is far from encouraging:
Bedtime, you are correct in that statement.  And while I'm not expecting a W&J win, it is not out of the question.  The Presidents moved the ball against CNU last week, until it appears some of them thought the game was in the bag.  Somewhere earlier this week on these boards, I posted the total offense numbers through the scoring drive that made it 27-0.  They were pretty decent, particularly given the fact that the defense gave the offense a slightly shorter field to work with.

Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 23, 2006, 11:00:25 AM
You can bet the Crusaders won't wait for the second half to show up, unlike CNU.  Good luck this weekend ...
You can bet the Captains showed up in the first half last week.  They just got beat.  To their credit, they found an answer in the second half, but the Captains weren't on auto-pilot for the first 30 minutes of the game.  They got beat.

They got beat deep, repeatedly.  They got beat at the point of attack.  They got beat on special teams.  Again, to their credit, they didn't quit.  They battled back, and nearly won the thing.

The Presidents aren't expecting the Cru to not show up until after intermission.  Nor would they want it that way.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 23, 2006, 11:47:15 AM
If either team waits until the 2nd half to get going, I'm afraid they will be in trouble.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: cruprez on November 23, 2006, 08:28:42 PM
I agree---a football game is 60 minutes long and BOTH teams must play the entire game if they want to advance to the next round...failure to do that will result in that team putting equipment away on Monday.  I dont want anyone to think that W&J "has already lost"----they will show up to play and UMHB had better show up also.....while I am a Cru fan and parent, I know what happens if you overlook a team that you are predicted to beat (remember Thanksgiving weekend last year?). I am sure while W&J might look good statically, I am also sure they have not met a run defense like UMHB's.   It will be a good game!  Go CRU!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 24, 2006, 07:45:50 AM
Safe travel to everyone making the trip to the game on Saturday.  We should have spectacular weather.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 25, 2006, 04:59:36 AM
Predictions a little late...................How Texas teams do not win the national championships every year i do not know.........I have been on the end off two Texas but whoopings and i got to say the size strength and speed advantage is outrageous.

UMHB-48 W&J - 14

W&J cant match up with the crew as Rollins and Thrasher roll. I just cant see W&J getting past the Cru in this one. Pres outperformed what i thought they would and should be in good shape next year with Swallow and Co.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on November 25, 2006, 09:44:45 AM
Wes, you're too close to this, having been on the receiving end of a couple of Texas football butt whippings. On the other hand I'm too far from this to know what I'm talking about, having never seen these Texas teams play. But I do know that W&J is a quality playoff team. That said, if Swallow and his receivers are near perfect and open the field for the run, if the kicking game holds up, if the defense rises to match their best games this season, and if W&J is very very lucky, then they can pull this off. Here's hoping: W&J - 24  UMHB -21.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 25, 2006, 10:05:31 AM
ive played against texas teams too and all this bull about them being superior is a bunch of baloney they are no different than any other team in the playoffs right now and if they were so much better than they would win the championship every year. the last time i checked  a team from texas hasnt won the stagg in quite some time
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2006, 11:13:02 AM
That in and of itself doesn't mean they can't be better than PAC teams, though.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on November 25, 2006, 01:00:53 PM
Mark, Bob love the show

wj - 35
mary - 17
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 25, 2006, 03:59:43 PM
Ernie no one is going to get past Mount you and i both know that. Texas teams always had more size and strength than us but Prez really impressed  today really giving UMHB a game. Out did what i thought and is a confidence booster to the future of the program as. Congrads to Teter, Hickey, Mendel, Cherish, Walsh and co on great careers. Prez will be a very strong team next year with a lot of people coming back.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Toby Taff on November 25, 2006, 04:07:08 PM
Congrats on a good game.  I hope we get to meet again (preferably in the 2d or 3d round of the playoffs next year)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on November 25, 2006, 04:14:04 PM
Great game, W&J.  Hope the new coach (Z) helped in the effort!!  I was impressed with his play last year at BC and got to chat on line with his DAD as well.  You all gave me heart burn this afternoon with the way you played  UMHB.  You're a real credit to the South Regional.  Oh, and your facility is one of the prettiest fields that I have been to.  I really liked the surface.  Maybe my team will get it together again next year.  It would be nice because it is really crappy to sit and not be as involved this year. Kudos for your excellent year!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kelly Boggs on November 25, 2006, 05:38:03 PM
Congrats to the Presidents on a fine season. W&J took a play from the CRU and was very opportunistic on defense. The team never quit and showed great character.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: denfd on November 25, 2006, 06:01:01 PM
Congrats to the Presidents. Even in defeat they showed that they belong in the first tier of D-3 teams. Great talent, good coaching, plus a lot of heart = exciting football seasons.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 25, 2006, 07:16:04 PM
denfd, I couldn't agree with you more.  They played a great game and gave a great effort.  Hope to see them again next year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 27, 2006, 05:36:33 PM
Congrats to W&J on their run in the playoffs.  You have proven the PAC isn't a slouch and thank God they actually let these two teams play the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 30, 2006, 11:26:29 AM
Congrats to TMC LB Mark Carlisle on being selected to play in the Aztec Bowl this year.   He was also named PAC MVP for 2006 and finished his career with 445 tackles tying him for first all time with Mike Wolfe.

He's the third TMC player to be named to the team, joining LB Chris Wells (98), and RB Will Castleberry (2000).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 30, 2006, 06:29:44 PM
QuoteMark, Bob love the show

wj - 35
mary - 17

ive played against texas teams too and all this bull about them being superior is a bunch of baloney they are no different than any other team in the playoffs right now and if they were so much better than they would win the championship every year. the last time i checked  a team from texas hasnt won the stagg in quite some time.

Ernie,

Your pride and love for your Alma Mater is terrific.  All these posts regarding the predictions of the game were fair but yours.  Your comment about Texas teams not being as advertised or superior is far from the truth in the domination of WJ. 

30-27 is a hell of a game!  PREZ did all they could and gave UMHB all they could handle for 4 quarters. 


1. You bring up a great point about the last time a team from Texas went to the Stagg...      2002 Trinity... Only 4 years ago.

2.  when was the last time a PA team beat a Texas team in the playoffs??? 
WJ vs Hardin-Simmons lossed 1999 51-3
WJ vs Trinity lossed 2002 45-10
WJ vs Mary Hardin Baylor lossed 2004 52-16
WJ vs Mary Hardin Baylor lossed 2006 27-30

Never Happened in the last 8 years!


In the last 8 years WJ has made the playoffs 7 of those years.  THey have lost to a team from Texas in the playoffs 4 our of those 7 years, while two have come from Bridgewater VA, and the other lone loss to Wilkes.  Solid Playoff History I Must say for WJ.  I would take it in a heart beat over nothing.

Ernie, bottom line is after getting through the "bull" and "Baloney" of Texas teams beingn superior in the playoffs looks to be true in the Matchup against WJ.  Take a look at the head to head matchups.  Wat state is the team that knocked WJ out of the playoffs more than 57% of the time? 

Texas!!!!!


FACTOID:
When was the last time a PA team went to the Stagg??? 1997 Lycoming;  WJ-1994; WJ-1992; Lycoming 1990.

Trinity in 2002 is the lastest team from PA or Texas to make it to the Stagg...Upperhand goes to Texas in being superior in the playoffs.  Ernie you need to respect teams from Texas.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: roocru on November 30, 2006, 07:22:25 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 30, 2006, 06:29:44 PM
Quote
Trinity in 2002 is the lastest team from PA or Texas to make it to the Stagg...

UMHB in 2004 ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Toby Taff on December 01, 2006, 08:46:32 AM
Quote from: roocru on November 30, 2006, 07:22:25 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 30, 2006, 06:29:44 PM

Trinity in 2002 is the lastest team from PA or Texas to make it to the Stagg...

UMHB in 2004 ;)

MAybe he saw that UMHB met MUC in the semis and just assumed... that's generally a safe bet.

;) ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 01, 2006, 10:25:18 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 30, 2006, 06:29:44 PM
FACTOID:
When was the last time a PA team went to the Stagg??? 1997 Lycoming;  WJ-1994; WJ-1992; Lycoming 1990.

Actually, the 1990 Stagg Bowl featured TWO Pa. teams.  Allegheny & Lycoming.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on December 01, 2006, 03:38:30 PM
That 1990 Allegheny team that won the Championship has ties to the PAC

- The defensive coordinator was Jack Leipheimer (head coach at Thiel)

- The Offensive Center is now the Offensive Coordinator at Thiel

- The Tight End is now the Offensive Line Coach/Strength coach at Thiel

- Also a few other former players of coach leips that didnt play on that team but afterwards followed him to Thiel to coach- I know of the defensive coordinator for Thiel now and I think a couple others

They know what it takes to win and I think they did a great job of turning a program around that probably nobody thought could ever win
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: formerd3db on December 16, 2006, 11:10:16 PM
SaintsFAN:
Well friend, it looks like your TMC will be looking for a new head coach, as Coach Hallet was named today as new head coach at Heidelburg College in the OAC.  Good for "The 'Berg"; not so good for TMC.  What are your thoughts on this?  BTW, when is TMC going to begin Phase II of the original Construction Plan for Thomas More Stadium?  Don't you think it's about time for the FieldTurf and/or AstroPlay or similar? ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: formerd3db on December 16, 2006, 11:13:17 PM
SaintsFAN Addendum:
Also, see my post #5346 to you over on the HCAC board. ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 18, 2006, 10:17:50 AM
formerd3db,

I DO definitely think its time to follow up on Phase II of the stadium....not sure how this coaching change affects this.  The Saints had to finish the year at Dixie High School because the turf is ruined.  I don't anticipate another home game at Thomas More until the turf is replaced. 

Look for MSJ's Defensive Coordinator Jim Hilvert to be a top candidate for the Saints Head Coaching Position.  Hilvert recruits VERY WELL in the Cincy area...and is responsible for the success of MSJ lately.  I believe he's got the inside track at this point. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on December 22, 2006, 11:56:39 AM
To All...

Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday Season

I think we need a D3 spring football season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 22, 2006, 03:19:18 PM
Merry Christmas all.

Kickoff '07 is WAY TOO FAR AWAY!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fb1023 on December 23, 2006, 11:19:33 PM
I wonder why we haven't seen much movement with the assistant coaches in the PAC? Why don't we hear their names mentioned for head coaching openings? For instance, why hasn't Marsca (Thiel) or Klein (W&J) been linked to any head coaching vacancies? These are two coordinators for the best two teams in the PAC. Aren't they interested in being head coaches? Are they qualified? For that matter, why don't we hear other assistant coaches from the PAC mentioned in connection with head coaching vacancies? I've wondered about this for the past two years. Or have they been mentioned and I just didn't hear about it? If anyone has any opinions on this subject, I'd like to hear what you have to say.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 24, 2006, 01:52:43 AM
Marzka has been linked to the Albright head coaching vacancy, actually.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fb1023 on December 24, 2006, 10:02:27 AM
Oops! Sorry about the spelling, Pat. Has Marzka's name been linked with any other job's? Do you know anything regarding the other coaches? If anyone out there has ties to the PAC, I'd be curious to hear your opinions on this matter. In recent years, Thiel has made a remarkable tranformation. W&J has been very good for a very long time. And yet, there isn't a lot of talk regarding their assistant coaches and head coaching vacancies. As far as the other teams in the PAC, Waynesburg and Westminster both went through coaching changes recently so I wouldn't expect their assistants to be "looking around". Also, what about Skarecich (sp?) at GCC? He's been there for quite some time as both an assistant and a coordinator? And again, Klein at W&J? All of these coaches seem to be qualified. Yet, I don't hear their names linked with head coaching vacancies. Thanks for the input on Marzka, Pat. But I'm interested in hearing from people who have strong ties to the PAC. Does anyone have any input regarding my questions?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 26, 2006, 04:45:01 PM
Thomas More Defensive Coordinator Denny Dorrell is in the running for the Head position at Thomas More.

I think most of the teams in the PAC might be going with coaches with roots in the area (ie. having coached HS, already been Head Coach) might be contributing to this.  Sure there are younger guys deserving of a head coaching position (ie. Dorrell), but for the most part I think you see guys on the 2nd half of their careers coaching close to home....following what used to be the Mount Union model before Kehres' staff got younger recently.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfanohio on January 16, 2007, 01:55:03 PM
There are some very good coaches in the hunt for the Thomas More job. Some very respectable college and high school coaches have thrown their hat in the ring.

Anyone have any insight?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AngryWhiteMan on January 18, 2007, 12:15:43 PM
at 1230 Jim Hilvert will be officially announced as tmc's new head coach.

he has been the defensive coordinator for msj for the past 8 years.  he took at program that was complete garbage and turned it into the premiere program in the hcac. (2-8, 0-10, 5-5. 6-4. 10-0. 9-1. 9-1)  he also did it at a school that gave him absolutely no funds or support.  it is going to be scary to see what he can do at a school like tmc that actually supports their athletic programs.

he knows the area and is an exceptional recuritor.  i hate to say it, but he will take every recruit away from msj and other teams in the tri-state area. 

i would watch out for tmc in about 2-3 years, they are going to be a very good, discipline team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 03, 2007, 10:15:00 AM
Should be a very interesting year for Thomas More in the PAC.  They have brought in a coach who can recruit Cincinnati very well and the tools are there for the kids from Colerain, Elder, Moeller, St. Xavier and other local powers to stay home and play for the Saints.  The coaching staff that Coach Hilvert has assembled is very good....Offensive Coordinator Charlie Carpenter was the OL Coach for the Toronto Argonauts last year, and John Paul Case is coming out of semi-retirement to coach QB's for his alma mater...

An up and coming QB is back in Stellman as well as TB Collier who has the ability to run for 1500 yards...lost Carlisle at LB, but have Steinmetz and West returning at the position.

Looking forward to seeing the schedule.

Any thoughts on where the teams will finish in the PAC?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on March 16, 2007, 05:13:53 PM
Looks like Thiel lost their Offensive and Defensive Coordinator from last seaon-

Marzka is at Albright as the new head coach
Rossi is at D1 Maine as a defensive assistant

I'm sure Leip will take over as D coordinator
Reiser, the old O-line coach will take over as offensive coordinator

I'm sure we will see some changes on both sides of the ball from the Tomcats
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on March 20, 2007, 12:41:37 PM
Old Timer,

That is exactly what  I have heard as well including the rumor that Brian Dickson will be returning to coach the Tomcats this year.  He coached the tomcats previously for 5 years and left to go up to Maine about two years ago.  He will be a big support as a familar face and someone who knows the Tomcats schemes very well.  Seems as if there is a Coaching schuffle with Rossi heading North and now Dickie heading back to Greenville.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on April 05, 2007, 10:20:13 AM
St. Vincent has broken ground on the new stadium

Trib link: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_501177.html

Post-Gazette link: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07095/775329-85.stm
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: papabear93 on May 12, 2007, 11:31:41 AM
Different Topic,

Heard through the grapevine that Waynesburg used an ineligible player all last year at Middle linebacker, #40.  Is that true, if so, they must vacate all games last year.  What is going on in the land of bumble bees, are the coaches not held accountable for anything?  This usually gets a coaching staff and the registrar in some hot water with the college and with the NCAA.  If it continues, look for changes soon, most administrators don't like to answer tough questions about institutional control!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on May 17, 2007, 01:48:41 PM
re:  Different Topic

sounds like there could be a situation in Waynesburg if this is true....hopefully the players don't suffer like in the Kaz situation at Ohio Northern when they lost their coach just before the season...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on May 22, 2007, 10:54:42 AM
Bank of Kentucky Field...

Crestview Hills, KY--Thomas More College and The Bank of Kentucky announced today a naming rights agreement for the new athletic field on campus.  The Bank of Kentucky committed $1 million to the project, which will be named The Bank of Kentucky Field. This leadership gift kicks off the fundraising campaign for phase one of the Thomas More College Athletic Complex Project, which is estimated to cost $1.5 to $2 million.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 22, 2007, 10:59:37 AM
Is that on the Thomas More site anywhere? Couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on May 22, 2007, 02:29:27 PM
Pat,

You have mail.  One of the attachments is the OFFICIAL release for this...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 22, 2007, 03:06:13 PM
Appreciated, thanks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 11, 2007, 04:45:57 PM
I hadn't really read the discussion previous to this one closely, but there are a couple of problems with this post.

One, there was no No. 40 in the linebacker rotation that I can tell last year. Two ... well, the source of this post has come into question, let's just say.

Quote from: papabear93 on May 12, 2007, 11:31:41 AM
Different Topic,

Heard through the grapevine that Waynesburg used an ineligible player all last year at Middle linebacker, #40.  Is that true, if so, they must vacate all games last year.  What is going on in the land of bumble bees, are the coaches not held accountable for anything?  This usually gets a coaching staff and the registrar in some hot water with the college and with the NCAA.  If it continues, look for changes soon, most administrators don't like to answer tough questions about institutional control!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on July 10, 2007, 12:44:55 PM
Come on PAC people.  No post from a PAC fan since May 22?  That is Centennial-esque.

How are things going up in Latrobe?  Is St. Vincent going to pull a LaGrange (0-10)?  Or will they be more like a Christopher Newport (5-4), in their first years?

Let's get some talk going...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 10, 2007, 02:49:07 PM
I'd imagine the needle will point closer to the "LaGrange" than the "Newport".

But that's just a guess, in mid-July.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on July 11, 2007, 04:10:18 PM
I agree that St. Vincent will be closer to the LaGrange and hope that my Bison won't be an early season "W". Things should continue to improve at BC under Coach Weaver but a 500 season is probably the goal for this season.

I'm just looking forward to getting D-3 football started!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 13, 2007, 04:45:50 PM
I know the boys in Crestview Hills are not going to sleep on Bethany this year....not that they did last year. 

Its going to be exciting next few years for PAC, IMO. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on July 23, 2007, 01:57:37 PM
Thiel will still produce a tough team on the field as Leip and the crew does every year, but if you take a look around at the roster that won the PAC two years ago coming this season...Most of those players have graduated except for a few seniors.  The talent is there at the skill positions.  The PAC should be interesting this year.  Any word on Wayneburg, Grove City, Westminster, or WJ?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on July 23, 2007, 04:47:26 PM
HI CC...

I saw Waynesburg's season preview on this site this morning. I like BC's early schedule with Hiram and St Vincent to open the season. Maybe we can get a couple "W's and the young starters some experience before BC goes to Geneva & Thiel.

Hope all is well and I'm looking forward to flying up and catch a few days of practice next month.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on July 27, 2007, 01:53:27 PM
South Willy,
Good to hear from you all is well and i hope the same for you. 
I'll have to take a look at Waynesburg's site to look at their season preview, but I do agree that your schedule is favorable to getting the young starters at BC some experience at home and on the road against teams I believe they should beat. 
Geneva will be tough for all of the PAC as they still have scholarship players on their team, but I will say the PAC played against an all scholarship team for four years from Westminster and they never really did much in the PAC.  I believe they best year with scholarship players in the PAC was 3-2.  Being on scholarship does not matter one bit to the coaches and players in the PAC.

Looking forward to seeing the season previews from these teams. 

St Vincent's campus has to be going nuts with the Steelers training there and also their first ever year of football.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gottaloveit on August 03, 2007, 11:25:37 AM
Washington & Jefferson College was picked to capture the 2007 football championship in the Presidents' Athletic Conference (PAC), according to the preseason poll released at the 2007 PAC Football Media Day at Saint Vincent College in Latrobe today. Voters in the polls included conference head coaches, sports information directors (SIDs), and members of the media present at the
conference media day.

Presidents' Athletic Conference (PAC)
2007 Preseason Football Poll
2006
                                              Points         Record
1. Washington & Jefferson     (22)196     10-2 (6-0)
2. Waynesburg                       (4)148       6-4 (5-1)
3. Thiel                                    (3)147       5-5 (4-2)
4. Thomas More                           115      6-4 (2-4)
5. Grove City                                 73       3-7 (1-5)
6. Bethany                                    68       4-6 (2-4)
7. Westminster                             67       2-8 (1-5)
(xx) - first place votes
2007 PAC 2006
Prediction Record
Geneva 4-4 4-5
Saint Vincent 1-7

http://www.pacathletics.org/fbpacpoll07.pdf (http://www.pacathletics.org/fbpacpoll07.pdf)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 07, 2007, 08:59:57 AM
With Waynesburg losing there two key play makers on Offense, how do they rank so high? They have a average d, but I do not see them finishing higher than Theil. My sleeper in the conference this year would have to be Grove City. Now with Andrew DiDonato getting more experience. He may prove to be the answer to bring GC back up in the rankings, possibly give Coach smith an actual winning season. with easy wins against, Dickinson, Thomas More, Westminster, Bethany, Saint Vincent. They would at least get themselves a 500 season and maybe squeak one past Carnegie Mellon or Waynesburg.
I do not see anyone really challenging W&J for the title maybe Thiel on homecoming, but then again lightening will not strike twice in Washington Pa. Whats your guys predictions?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on August 07, 2007, 09:12:00 AM
You think Grove City can get "easy wins" against Dickinson, Thomas More, Westminster, Bethany, Saint Vincent?

Dickinson was in the PLAYOFFS last year.

GCC lost to Thomas More last year.

GCC lost to Bethany last year.

GCC beat Westminster by one point last year.

I'd be pretty hesitant about calling any of those "easy wins."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 07, 2007, 04:51:48 PM
"Bigger than W&J",

what position do you play for Grove City??  We'll watch you this year....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Uncle Jessie on August 08, 2007, 11:38:01 AM
Hey everyone. I made a yahoo fantasy football league devoted to D3 fans. Everyone is welcome as I have 9 spots left open. All I ask is that you name your team after your favorite Div. 3 team.

League ID#: 9077
League Name: FANS OF DIVISION 3 FOOTBALL
Password: usasouth

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2007, 02:12:46 PM
Man how long was this summer??  Anybody ready for football??

Temps outside remind me of the fall....

Thomas More will be playing their games off campus this year due to construction of the field.  Good things going on at the Crestview Hills school.   They are making an effort to have the alumni of the program more involved, the stadium plans are coming along and we have a new staff to be excited about. 

I look for the Saints to finish 2nd in the PAC, and turn some heads on 2007.   Bold prediction, I know.  I think they'll surprise a couple teams...

Veteran posters come out of hiding...lets go, lets have some discussion.  Bob Gregg?  Cartel? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 08, 2007, 04:08:57 PM
SaintsFAN...

It has been a long summer and this site has been really quiet. I've been reading all the opinions on the other conferences but our PAC following doesn't seem to excited yet about the season.

BC has 19 returning starters (and good recruiting class) but almost everyone is young. Maybe 4-5 jr/sr starters. I think the coaching staff is getting the program going in the right direction but it's probably a couple more year's from PAC contender. Up front on both sides of the ball couldn't compete last year and that will be the biggest challenge this season. Probably have the best receiver group in PAC but need to able to run the ball better than 60-70 yds a game.

Sould be an interesting season and maybe with a few surprises, like last year, the Bison can improve over last year's 4-6.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 08, 2007, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on August 07, 2007, 04:51:48 PM
"Bigger than W&J",

what position do you play for Grove City??  We'll watch you this year....

I do not or would not play for Grove City, I am a graduate from the great school of Washington & Jefferson College. To answer TartanPlayer's insert about the Dickinson being in the PLAYOFFS last year.  Dickinson was a playoff team, very true and pretty good, but it's all about rattling the cage. The Red Devils play weak teams.  Sweet Tart if you know anything about football then you know it all starts with the QB. Having a young QB thrown into the mix as a freshmen straight out of high school he's going to have some costly mistakes. With more experience and more reps with the NEW OFFENSE he can be one of the premiere QB's in the conference behind BOBBY SWALLOW W&J.  Incase you did not know GC changed their offense last year for their QB, GCC also played a couple of their games in some sloppy conditions. As for "easy wins." They can be done if the QB stays healthy. I watched every single game last year GCC played and all of the PAC, so hence the reason why I said SLEEPER. Think about it before you talk about it. PICK IT UP DING
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 09, 2007, 08:49:01 AM
So the offense is new for THIS year? 

Putting it down...DONG.

Southwilly,

The Bison did perform better than expected...if they stay hungry, I think they may be onto something at Bethany..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 09, 2007, 05:46:06 PM
Last year the GCC had a new offense, putting them in more shotgun settings. I thought you should know in years past they were basically under center at all times. Check the stats from years past to last years and you will see that they threw the ball a heck of a lot more. Not just throwing off of play action and actually having some deeper routes. But I do not care that much for GCC. I am a W&J boy and judging by your liking of Thomas More who by the way, lost to the worst team in the PAC last year Bethany, you should be happy that a person of my excellence is even taking time out to reply to your nonsense. PICK IT UP DING. Also who can argue that W&J will have a very explosive offense something like the days when Chris Edwards was a junior (like Bobby Swallow) Averaging 40 points a game. I am confident that those days will return and the PREZ crew will make it past the Texas teams
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on August 10, 2007, 03:56:27 PM
Big Ern throwing out some "apples". Its about that time to awaken from my summer slumber from D3football. W&J is still hands down the team to beat in the conference. Swallow and Co. will be very explosive on offense and Michael Sirriani will go back to the "When in Doubt Air it out" philosophy. I like Big Erns sleeper pick of Grove City but i beleive Thiel is going to have a good season. Minton and Co. will grind it out and play defense. I like GC Third with Didinato and look out for Ian Tobin who is a talented back. Lets get some opinions thrown out its about that time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 10, 2007, 04:34:53 PM
Lets hope for the sake of the PAC, that the champion we produce is again good enough to advance in the playoffs. 

as far as me being "lucky that you respond to my non-sense", I say touche....  I could really care less.  Being an ex-player and alum of Thomas More College, I could really give-a-chit-less who the team lost to LAST year.  I wouldn't pull my allegiance from my school no matter how bad it would ever get.  Change is in the air in Crestview Hills, recruits are staying in Cincy to play D3 football again, just as when my class came into the school. 

With last years records thrown out the window...I pick the Saints to finish tied for second this year in the PAC....provided they find a LB to replace Carlisle (tongue in cheek).  The offense is going to be there....same QB that was giving W&J fits before he was injured in week 10 last year, returns as does Collier at RB.   Mix in some solid play from the o-line and I think we'll have something. 

Challenge is for the Saints to consistently come up with stops against the top teams here in conference play.  I think W&J will be VERY strong if they have a run game to match their talented QB.. (maybe even a DEEP...*cough* Salem run?)


bigern, welcome to the PAC board none-the-less.  And stuff your "internet" excellence.  I could care less.  If you come down to the W&J/TMC game, I'll buy you a beer.

Lets talk football just like Mantooth does....by the way, your mother (Dorothy) IS a Saint..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Big O on August 13, 2007, 12:44:08 PM
I'm new to this board and to following PAC football...haven't really paid much attention to it since the late 70s....
Picking up on the "debate" about GCC....I agree that they have a talented backfield returning...but must rebuild the entire offensive line except center. What's the view on the young guys stepping up to play with who will be an all-league center?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 13, 2007, 12:56:58 PM
St Vincent article on NCAASports.com (http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/story/10289904)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 13, 2007, 01:11:11 PM
Thats a nice article. ... I wonder how they will fare this year.

Does anyone know about any of their recruits?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 16, 2007, 08:58:54 AM
I do think minton will have "tons of fun" running the ball this year Wes. I am looking forward to the Thiel vs W&J this year on homecoming. I do not want the same results we presidents suffered two seasons prior, holding a 14 point lead on the verge of going up 21 nothing, only to see a big 2nd down sack by thiel which lead to a long 3rd down that was not converted and a shank punt of 8 yards by a freshmen kicker. Heart breaking i must say, as for the Saints d. They probably have one of the fastest linebackers and secondary in the pac. But with a new coach on hand coach Sirianni will be more aggressive then the years past. I will be down saint to watch the red and black, i also will take you up on that beer.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Uncle Jessie on August 19, 2007, 12:45:56 PM
I have one spot left open for tonight Yahoo fantasy football draft league devoted to D3 fans. One guy dropped out. We have some Bridgewater fans, SU, Wesley, Mount Un, UW Oshkosh, CNU, and Greensboro. Here is the information you will need to join. Only one spot is left so it maybe full  when you try to register. Please name your team after the D3 team you cheer for. Good Luck

League ID#: 9077
League Name: FANS OF DIVISION 3 FOOTBALL
Password: usasouth
Draft Time: Sun Aug 19 7:00pm EDT 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 19, 2007, 06:41:50 PM
Hello All!!!!!

I am ready for the football season to kickoff! Camp is here and the smell is in the air!

Predictions:

The conference will be decided when Thiel visits W&J in early October. I think Thomas More could surprise some people. Look forward to seeing the new teams in the conference. Also want to see if Westmin will restore some of thier tradition or keep falling. Think the Bison will be better.

TOP 3

WJ
Thiel
Thomas More

I hope my Tomcats prove me wrong but I think W&J is the team to beat.

Will be around but I am busy with camp at Upper St. Clair so I will be in and out.

Good luck to all the players and coaches in the PAC this year!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on August 21, 2007, 04:29:14 PM
Nice article on St. Vincent and Coach Colbert in the USA Today, today:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-08-20-saint-vincent_N.htm
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on August 21, 2007, 04:37:15 PM
You would think that St Vincent's the only D3 school starting football up this year  ;) ... great PR for them and congrats to their SID and whomever else is getting the word out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on August 21, 2007, 04:38:42 PM
Ron

May be a higher power :o. Now if they win out !!!!geeesh
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 21, 2007, 04:44:09 PM
They're the only one hosting an NFL camp -- that's unfettered access to national media.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on August 21, 2007, 04:45:23 PM
Bingo!  We have a winner!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on August 21, 2007, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 21, 2007, 04:44:09 PM
They're the only one hosting an NFL camp -- that's unfettered access to national media.
HAHA like I said Pat a higher(o..k richer) power..
Maybe that was in the contract to use the facilities ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 21, 2007, 07:43:27 PM
Another day closer to kickoff!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on August 22, 2007, 10:41:39 AM
Interesting that the kickoff predicts W&J, Thiel, and Waynesburg all to finish with a 5-1 record in the conference.  I think thats a pretty good prediction.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 22, 2007, 03:25:16 PM
If that prediction comes true, what is the tiebreaker for the PAC? Also, I'm a little surprised TMC isn't getting a little more respect as I think they could be in the 5-1 or 4-2 mix.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 22, 2007, 09:42:45 PM
I agree South Willy...I talked to a good source and they said that Waynesburg is down this year. We all will see very soon!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 23, 2007, 08:59:34 AM
The Saints are going to have to earn the respect here in the PAC....I believe they will..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on August 23, 2007, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: South Willy on August 22, 2007, 03:25:16 PM
If that prediction comes true, what is the tiebreaker for the PAC? Also, I'm a little surprised TMC isn't getting a little more respect as I think they could be in the 5-1 or 4-2 mix.


South, I'm surprised that someone as web-savvy as you didn't have this already....

From the PAC Manual:

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) Strength of schedule for all games using the NCAA playoff selection strength of schedule formula, 4) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s), and 5) overall record. Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 23, 2007, 01:06:44 PM
Thanks Bob...Being a loyal Bison fan, I've had little need for the playoff scenarios but hopefully in the future. I knew you guys would have the facts.

I would have never guessed the #2 scenario for the 3-way tie.

Do we have some new Geneva faithful on the site?  Nice welcome to the PAC, Thiel and W & J to start the season! I noticed St. V got the other end of the conference, West & BC. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 23, 2007, 02:03:15 PM
Any word on any of the scrimmages yet?

I think Thiel had a scrimmage vs AC yesterday but I am not sure.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 23, 2007, 02:09:51 PM
Thiel came out on top 6-0. Story said AC used 10 different QB's!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 24, 2007, 02:05:13 AM
wow...glad to hear hope the Tomcats are in for a great year in Greenville and can surprise the folk in Washington!!!!

One thing is for sure that Coach Leip will have the boys fired up and ready to play week in and week out
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on August 26, 2007, 04:14:01 PM
Hey folks.  Checking in.   

Sorry to see summer ending, but glad to see football starting.  Looking foward to the new season and to talk football here.

Thankfully, I will be going to the nearly all of the W&J games,  and it looks like it matches well with the Pitt schedule, especially since it's against my religion to watch Division I 'cupcake' matchups.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on August 27, 2007, 10:23:07 AM
Any word from the W&J vs. Mount Scrimmage? Like to hear how the Prez faired against a fully loaded Purple Raider squad.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 27, 2007, 10:56:20 AM
Well i think that W&J got a little mount treatment on Saturday. Mount had a week more of practice and are getting ready for there first game this week. while W&J was coming off there first week of practice. The presidents know where they need to improve. I think that it is a good test to see where the kids stand when you face the best team in D3. I am sure that W&J could get an easier team to scrimmage, but when they play against the Purple Raiders the coaches are able to see what kids can play and what kids poop and pee down their legs. Does anyone else in the PAC really have any tough teams they scrum b4 the season starts? What's the deal with AC why are they trying out so many QB's against Theil? Did the Tomcats hurt some of the QB's? What are they games to watch in the PAC besides Theil and W&J Oct 6?  Wes I heard that one time you ate four Pizza's and played a whole dynasty in a 18 hour time period? is there truth to this rumor?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 27, 2007, 11:08:26 AM
Bethany is in the same practice schedule as W & J as they won't open until the second week. BC will scrimmage Otterbein next Saturday which for BC will be a formidible foe as they are ranked in the top 75 by D3.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 27, 2007, 01:16:33 PM
bigern,

I don't think anyone else in this conference can talk about "tough scrimmages" until W&J stops their MTU scrimmage. 

I don't know anyone that has given a WJ account of the scrimmage, but there are a few on the OAC page doing so for the Purple Raiders. 

Does W&J play Hanover this year?  They only have 70 guys in camp this year (on the roster)....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on August 27, 2007, 03:24:03 PM
Fan,

W&J hosts Hanover Sept. 15th
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on August 28, 2007, 12:10:55 AM
I heard some of my friends discuss the W&J/Mount Union scrimmage, but the words that summed it up most on the OAC thread were "Monkey Stomp".


Apparently, the Purple Raiders were the foot, and the Presidents were the monkey.   That was even more kind than what my friends said, but at least it's still August.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on August 28, 2007, 01:40:50 PM
Mount Scored on 8 of 9 possesions. Mount has everyone back on a loaded offense and W&J lost a lot on D and usually never really has a good D anyway. No one in D3 is close to Mount as it looks like they are going on another 4 to 5 year run of consecutive titles Monkey stomping everyone in their path. Big Ern with one look at mine and your physique you would know the truth to that rumor. Also whats this about cowboy boots and a cowboy hat over a Patriots game?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 29, 2007, 05:40:29 PM
Did anyone see that Troy Hill Waynesburgs DB stabbed his twin brothers? My thoughts and prayers go out to the family. I hope the other twin makes it. I am curious if this is the same Troy Hill that was a standout for the Yellowjackets last year? Does anyone got any inforamtion on this? Burgh boy what year did you graduate fom W&J? Saints I think this might be the last year for the two to meet, it is sad because Hanover is a quality program. They just have been falling off the map as of late. From what i heard when i talked to one of the coaches is that it is getting tougher for them to bring in recruit. The Admin are being real strict on who they let in Hanover, but the same could be said everywhere. I would not be able to get accepted in W&J now. The bar raises every year. People let me know about the Troy Hill. It is truely a sad day either way you look at, a family lost a son and a brother.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 29, 2007, 07:41:02 PM
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=104&sid=1234098

Looks like it's the guy. Played last year but did not return to school for this fall.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on August 29, 2007, 07:45:07 PM
Sad to hear about Troy Hill. My prayers and thoughts go out to the victims family and friends.

I think other than when they play each other that when Thiel and W&J play the Thomas More and Waynesburg that they will be good games. Still think the winner of Thiel and W&J wins conference but only time will tell. Thiel certainly can't overlook Geneva this Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 30, 2007, 10:42:36 AM
damn, thats AWFUL....especially what the surviving twin said to his grandfather....

Hopefully, Troy Hill gets the help he needs and his family is able to cope with their loss...

bigern,

this is absolutely the last year for the two to meet.  They are scheduling Centre College for next year...sad day for HC Football...The admissions standards are becoming retarded and they are going to lose their long-time coach as a result....with all of his success he's had, I doubt Wayne Perry sticks around for this much longer..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 30, 2007, 02:19:08 PM
Saint,
I just remember all the great QB's that came out of Hanover and the battles between the two schools. Last year W&J was something like 71 yards away from breaking an NCAA record for most yards in a game. That in itself shows the downward spiral the school is going. I am going to be sad to see the school slip out of the picture, but the PAC at least now has an automatic playoff bid. This opens up the chances for teams in the conference to play teams in the OAC or ODAC. I feel that in doing so the teams will improve a lot. Now Teams in the PAC (mostly W&J haha) do not have to worry about the perfect season and sweating it out come playoff time or having one lose. Now they can get right in the thick of things and not play weaker teams, such as Hanover, or other teams of that caliber. This will better get the teams ready in the PAC for playoff football by playing more competitive teams in the regular season.

Any word on what Waynesburg College has done about the incident that happened will Troy Hill? Why did he not come back to camp? Did he have problems before, i hope the surviving twin can make it emotionally. I feel so bad for the little guy. :'(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 30, 2007, 02:23:45 PM
What would Waynesburg be required to do about someone who isn't enrolled?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on August 30, 2007, 03:21:51 PM
I read he wasn't attending Waynesburg College (University, whatever).   The sad thing is there seems to be a fine line anymore between being depressed and a sociopath. 

Big-I played during the early 90s' under Luckhardt.  I don't bring it up much because my war stories aren't any more interesting than the ones I read from others on here.   :)  I do however feel as an alum there are things I have seen change from an athletic and administrative standpoint that has kept W&J from getting back to a realistic chance of a Division III Championship, but that's just my opinion.

My years are blurring together, but remember going to two games at College Field (sorry, it's always College Field to me), with Hanover as the opponent.  The second game it wasn't close, but enjoyed the games because Hanover came out throwing, and W&J was throwing it right back. 

Any word on Geneva? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 30, 2007, 04:28:43 PM
I think I was a few hours ahead of schedule today....

whoops...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 30, 2007, 04:51:52 PM
SaintsFAN...

You definitely must have the inside track with Hanover info or if it was just a premonition, can you pick me some winners this weekend?? Great call!

The Bison have the week off so I'll just be checking the D3 scoreboard in general. Thiel vs Geneva could be interesting and I noticed that on the OAC pickem board, 50% of the voters have Muskingum beating WC. That's a surprise!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 31, 2007, 02:33:19 AM
willy,

those guys in the OAC pick ems know what they are doing....that 50% is thinking that Waynesburg CAN'T cover the 23.5 point spread that has been assigned to them.  I think its safe to say Hanover is going to play their tails off for Coach Perry...

burghboy,

you're right...there's DEFINITELY a fine line there...  Most of our "news" you read on Foxnews.com or what-have-you, is very depressing...I often ask myself what kind of world do we live in now...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on August 31, 2007, 08:44:30 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 30, 2007, 02:23:45 PM
What would Waynesburg be required to do about someone who isn't enrolled?

He was at the first four days of camp before he quit, therefore i think he had to be enrolled to come to camp. i wonder if football was another factor in his depression, either way it is a sad event.

Burgh,
You guys were pretty bad ace back in the day. I mean your resume speaks for itself. What position did you play? Do you still go to the games at Cameron? (I call it Cameron because its a beautiful place and its all I have known it as). I bet you rocked out at Carnival when you went to school, I wish they had that when I was there.

What's the big match up this weekend? What are some of the predictions for the weekend?

Saint-who does Thomas More have?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 31, 2007, 10:52:18 AM
Thomas More is AT Hanover on Saturday...should be an interesting start to the Hilvert tenure at Thomas More. 

He's put together a very good staff of young, enthusiastic coaches.  Once everyone gets the hang of how they want the game to be played, the Saints are going to be a tough team to face.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Definitely should be a wide-range of factors that would push an 18 year old kid to do such a hideous thing.  As it has been said before, its not just one life but two that have been snuffed out here..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 31, 2007, 11:32:46 AM
I'd say the big games this weekend are:

CAPITAL at WITTENBERG
UW–LA CROSSE at HARDIN-SIMMONS
ROWAN at CHRISTOPHER NEWPORT

and Tennesee at Cal Berkley (Go Golden Bears)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 01, 2007, 08:09:27 PM
good win for TMC today at Hanover in the final meeting between the two rivals.  Final was 40-24, I wasn't there so I"m not sure what went down. 

Thoughts on week 1??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 02, 2007, 02:15:27 AM
If the Thiel offensive line doesn't start playing better it might be a LONG year for the Tomcats

They gave up 6 sacks and the team rushed for negative yardage--Ouch...... :-\
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 02, 2007, 10:12:46 AM
Minton only had 20 yards on 17 carries as well!

Hopefully they can have a good week of practice and get back on track!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2007, 01:23:08 PM
Sounds like Thomas More has found a good player in their freshman QB.  In making his first start he completed his first 7 passes (2 for TD's) and is very mobile.  They also have a big and quick freshman LB who made 8 stops yesterday.  Rashawn West at CB makes the Saints better on defense...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 02, 2007, 01:54:51 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on September 02, 2007, 10:12:46 AM
Minton only had 20 yards on 17 carries as well!

Hopefully they can have a good week of practice and get back on track!
It didn't look like Minton, Hess, or Bova were doing that poorly - it genuinely looked like an O line problem to me.  The only way the QB had the time or the RB had a hole looked to be when Thiel was holding - whether it was called or not.

Thiel D gave up a LOT of yards but a lot of those came on the two long TDs from Geneva - one where the middle screen worked to perfection against a Thiel blitz and the other where the D "thought" the runner was down - but apparently had rolled over the pile and trotted off to the end zone for an easy score.  The only red zone score against the D came off of a drive that only stayed alive due to untimely, and quite avoidable, penalties on 4th and 3rd downs.  >:(  Despite being thoroughly outplayed, take those two penalties and the corresponding points away from Geneva and Thiel's late game drive (stalled within Geneva's 10) using the two-minute offense could have put the Tomcats in reach of stealing the game away from Geneva. 

My thoughts is that the D is fixable by playing smarter and making some adjustments - a couple of penalties and giving up the two big plays made a HUGE difference.  The O line needs work.

Other thoughts about the conference: is perennial NCAC "top half" school Allegheny having a down year or is Westminster ahead of where we thought they would be?  Coach Hand has a way of bringing along a program quickly, but I was looking to 2008 being the breakout year for Westmin.  ???
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 03, 2007, 05:38:46 PM
Old Phart,

Thanks for the input. I was not at the game but alot of people I know went and they said the o-line showed their age. I meant by Minton only having 20 yards on 17 carries that normally if the run game doesn't go neither do the Tomcats. When I saw the rushing statistics I knew they had a rough day. Hopefully then can bounce back this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 04, 2007, 09:32:03 AM
Will we see the Tomcats of old? It would be tragic if the Tomcats did not finish in the top three spots. I know it is only the first game and the first game is usually the game to get the kinks out, but there was no offensive production. Do you guys think W&J can fair well against Geneva? I think W&J has more weapons on Offense then Thiel, but only time will tell if the Presidents can fight off the new PAC foe. How about Westminster beating the Gators, does the Titans have what it takes to make a run in the PAC or are the Gators that bad of a team? I figured with the new Facilities that are going up that recruiting would be easier for Allegheny and kids that were already there would play with a little emotion. I guessed wrong.   What are the big games this weekend?

How did Grove City look? I know they lost but was curious on their game play.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 04, 2007, 02:22:10 PM
How about the freshmen performances in the PAC the first week!!!

Everyone talked about the W & J/MU scrimmage last weekend. Can you imagine being down 52-0 after one quarter? MU needs to schedule a couple D2 schools.

Looking forward to BC getting started this week and should have a good chance of a win at Hiram. A more experienced wide open offense from last season but the defense will need to improve consistency to be competitive even with mid level PAC foes.  18 starters back which will help.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 04, 2007, 05:14:04 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 04, 2007, 02:22:10 PM


Looking forward to BC getting started this week and should have a good chance of a win at Hiram. A more experienced wide open offense from last season but the defense will need to improve consistency to be competitive even with mid level PAC foes.  18 starters back which will help.

My view is that, barring extraordinary circumstances, a BC win is pretty much foreordained.  But the margin of victory is worth discussing.  The NCAC pick 'em line has the Terriers as 28.5 point dogs.  Even so, the majority of picks favor Bethany.  The NCAC board has given me no reason to think that Hiram is making any kind of turnaround.  I think that anything LESS than a 17 point win by BC should worry Bethany followers. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 05, 2007, 09:45:49 AM
Quote from: Bigernernwj69 on September 04, 2007, 09:32:03 AM
Will we see the Tomcats of old? It would be tragic if the Tomcats did not finish in the top three spots. I know it is only the first game and the first game is usually the game to get the kinks out, but there was no offensive production. 

I don't think you will see the Tomcats of old ever again. Just because they lost one game to Geneva doesn't mean it is time to start questioning what is going on at Thiel. The PAC is going to keep getting better and finishing out of the top 3 this year would not be good for the Tomcats but definatly not tragic. I think you will see that Thiel is a respectable program now and will not return to the cellar dwellers of the PAC. They have alot of first time starters including a qb. Be patient and let things playout this year. They also had to revamp their staff after many coaches left for new jobs at higher levels or head coaching positions elsewhere. I know Coach Leip and the Tomcats will come together sooner than later.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gottaloveit on September 05, 2007, 11:38:26 AM
As long as Leip is there you won't see the Tomcats of old. I was at the game Saturday and i can say that it came down to who won the battle at the line of scrimmage. Thiel's offensive line is young, they are only returning two starters. Once these young guys get some playing time under their belt Thiel should be able to win football games. As for Thiel's defense they had a couple breakdowns but they appear to be solid. They were on the field alot and towards the end of the game seem to look at the scoreboard hopelessly with a struggling offense.

This is only week one. Hopefully they can be 1-0 next week!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 05, 2007, 12:54:07 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 04, 2007, 02:22:10 PM


Everyone talked about the W & J/MU scrimmage last weekend. Can you imagine being down 52-0 after one quarter? MU needs to schedule a couple D2 schools.



You need not worry about Mt Union's non-conference opponent for the next couple years...  SJF comes to Alliance next year for a playoff rematch of 06, with MTU paying a visit to SJF in 09. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 05, 2007, 04:01:47 PM

[/quote]

I think you will see that Thiel is a respectable program now and will not return to the cellar dwellers of the PAC. They have alot of first time starters including a qb. Be patient and let things playout this year. They also had to revamp their staff after many coaches left for new jobs at higher levels or head coaching positions elsewhere.


[/quote]

Well they may not be the bottom of the barrel but the sure will need the young kids to step up or they can have a Notre Dame like season of disappointments. As for the coaches who all left for higher up jobs and Head coaching jobs where did they all go? I mean It is not like Thiel has connections like Mount Union where coaches are jumping Levels at will
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 05, 2007, 08:26:07 PM
The offensive coordinator left to be the head coach at Albright and the defensive coordinator left to be a coach at Maine
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gottaloveit on September 06, 2007, 09:53:16 AM
Also their D-line coach is now at Rutgers
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 07, 2007, 08:31:11 AM
So what are some predictions this weekend? I am going to the W&J game; I think Sirianni with a week of film will be able to dismantle the Geneva defense. Bob Swallow will have 190 yards passing two TD's, Ryan Church with one of those catches for a TD and the Rat will have the other. This will allow the W&J young Offensive line be able to get in a rhythm, to open the holes up for who ever is running the rock. Expect to see the ball ran right at the Geneva Defense behind future All-Americans guard Houy and center Bucar. As for the defense i am looking for the boys to fly around to the ball, possibility with some different blitz packages. The key component will be the linemen like Jeff Ernst and Mitch Tenney keeping those big ugly's off the backers and for the young core of backers to make some big time plays. I do not see passing being much of a threat for W&J, because i think Geneva will try to run the ball right at the smaller W&J defense. Speed will play a huge part in favor of the presidents.......You heard it hear first. This will be the only true test for the presidents this year until Thiel and Waynesburg.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 07, 2007, 09:48:36 AM
I think your right big. W&J coaches where up at Thiel last weekend and got to see both teams play first hand. I know they where scouting Geneva because that is thier next foe but I am sure they had close eyes on Thiel as well. I think the Presidents will be ready to play this week and get the salty taste out of their mouths from the Mount scrimmage. I think this will be a better game then most are thinking, but W&J will win 31-14.

Other Predictions:

Alfred at Thiel - 1 p.m.

Tomcats rebound at home and the o-line / running game shows improvement while the defense tightens up. Thiel 24 - 10

Bethany at Hiram – 1 p.m.

Bethany opens the season with a bang on offense and the defense shuts down Hiram. Bison 35 - 7

Waynesburg at Wooster – 1 p.m.

Waynesburg raises some eyebrows with this win lead by their rushing attack and defense. Yellow Jackets 28 - 13

Grove City at Carnegie Mellon – 1:30 p.m.

Grove City's offense opens up but the Tartans rushing attack is too much for the Wolverines. CMU 31 - 7

Westminster at Saint Vincent* – 1:30 p.m.

Westminster returns to glory??? Maybe after they start 2-0 as they beat SV who is getting better each week.  Westmini 34 - 14.

Thomas More - open

Good Luck to all PAC teams this week!!!

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 07, 2007, 01:58:13 PM
So is the W&J/Geneva game going to be a test or a dismantling? 

I think W&J is going to win this through the air...Geneva has some confidence after stuffing Thiel last weekend...with or without new lineman.  They also will have to stop the run while keeping an eye on the short, controlled passing game of QB Bondi.   I think a final score of 27-10. 

Also, unfortunately, Penn State big over Notre Dame...in Clausen's debut.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 07, 2007, 02:35:32 PM
E8 pick 'em has Thiel as a 9 point dog to Alfred.  My hopes are that it is a low scoring affair.  While I would love to see the O comes alive I am picking Thiel's D and special teams to pull out a nail-biter 9-7. 

PAC folks likely remember Julio Fuentes' injury from last season's Tomcat/Saxon matchup.   Here is an update that I "borrowed" from the E8 board so you wouldn't have to track down AUPepBand's post on your own:

Quote from: AUPepBand on September 07, 2007, 10:23:55 AM
Just read a piece on Julio Fuentes in the Olean Times Herald's Football Preview. He says the support he has received has impacted his daily life.

Quoting the article here:

Fuentes says he never wonders, 'Why me," and on the rare days he feels a bit down, "I pray, though probably not as much as I should."

Still he admits, "I feel better every day and can see the improvement... hopefully, eventually, I'll come all the way back."

Meanwhile, Fuentes, who's always been chided for being vertically challenged, hastn't lost his sense of humor.

"I played football at 5-2," he said. "But since they took out a vertebrae, I think I'm only 5-1 1/2."

As for the future, Fuentes has a plan.

"We've put in for a van to help get me around," he said. "Then, I want to go back to school (at Alfred). I'm not going to go this fall, it's too soon.

"But I would like to return in the spring. I wouldn't be able to live on my own, I'd need an aide, but that would be available to me."

And when he goes back as a first-semester sophomore, Fuentes will have a different major.

"I was in business," he said of his freshman year, "But after this experience, I'd like to change it to counseling.

"I think I have something to share and give back to people."



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AUPepBand on September 07, 2007, 03:20:32 PM
Pep will be in attendance at tomorrow's Thiel-Alfred game and invites any d3football posters to say hello. Pep is the "old guy" in the band probably carrying a bass drum. It's understood Thiel hires a DJ to play music during the game. Pep is hoping the DJ will allow the band to get a few tunes in, but time will tell.

Pep looks at Thiel as a good test for the Saxons and has a great deal of respect for the Thiel program. Ain't the same as when AU was flirting with the PAC years back. Pep expects a hard-hitting game much like last year. And the concern and generosity shown by the Thiel faithful to our beloved Julio Fuentes will not soon be forgotten.

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 07, 2007, 04:38:39 PM
Great attitude by that Mr. Fuentes...

I had a great friend of mine, Adam Collinsworth, paralyze himself two days prior to the 1998 season...while we were at a party.  He was a starter as a freshman at LB and this happened prior to his sophomore year.  Great guy...never have I seen him since then without a smile on his face.  That was a tough night though...real tough.  His mom eventually passed away from cancer a few months later...

Julio sounds like he has Adam's zest for life....."Collie" also finished up his studies at Thomas More and graduated...  Now, Adam is currently JV defensive coordinator at Amelia HS (near Cincinnati) and varsity LB's coach. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 10, 2007, 04:46:52 PM
I love stories like these two, it makes you realize what you have going on. If you think your having a bad day, you look at these two stories and realize if they can make it through the day with a smile then why the hell can't you.
Great stories guys. Did the weekend go pretty much the way everyone thought? What about this weekend?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2007, 11:17:03 AM
you are right, big ern....


just when I think I'm having a bad day...it raises me up.

This weekend....there will be a Bridge Alert for the loser of the game between the schools from South Bend and Ann Arbor....police will need to monitor this closely.

I can't wait to see what Thomas More puts on the field this Saturday when Grove City comes to visit.  The PAC release says this will be Grove City's longest roadtrip of the year (and only one over 75 miles). 

I also want to see how much fight Hanover puts up against W&J this weekend...0-3 start for their retiring coach looks likely.

Will Thiel take out their aggressions on Albion at Spankle-Sprandle? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: erniesfreestyle on September 11, 2007, 06:38:10 PM
W&J players of the week

Offense:
Bobby Swallow - smartest, most athletic quarterback to ever play at w&j, ever. 16-25, 255 yards and 4 touchdowns. Bobby only threw 5 interceptions last year, he rarely makes a mistake, knows when to take a sack and when to throw it away.

Runner up: Kevin Mathews - over 100 yards rushing, nearly another 100 receiving. when did this kid get so fast.

Defense:
Dave Gitlitz - 12 tackles, 3 for a loss and one sack. Dave was all over the field this weekend vs Geneva

Runner up: Todd Kennan - Todd came up huge at the end of the first half with an interception in the endzone. However he did fumble his second int. thats embarrassing enough nothing more needs to be said.

Special Teams:
ZEBRASKY SUCKS.

Title: Re: Prforwardesidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 11, 2007, 07:49:23 PM
Look forward to flying up to Bethany for the opening home game this weekend, BC didn't have strong competition the first week but it was positive to see their running game go for 200+yds. New QB Joyner was rusty in the first half but made the throws in the 4th quarter.Defense played solid with Wineburg PAC defensive player of the week.

St. Vincent at home this week. The PAC lower half appears much more competitive this season with West & GC playing well. Will Tomcats recover and challenge for PAC?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 12, 2007, 11:17:17 AM
I don't know if Swallows is the best to ever where the Red and Black....Dawson was pretty dang good. But I think Swallows is definatly a great qb.

I hope that Thiel will rebound this week. I am sure that Coach Leip and his staff is dissappointed and that he is taking full blame for the stuggle. Saying that I think the team and staff will work hard at fixing the mistakes and preparing and will be better this week. About competing for the PAC title I think they have this week and one more week before they get back into PAC action and aslong as they get things rolling in those two weeks they will be a factor in the PAC race even with a loss to Geneva.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 12, 2007, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on September 12, 2007, 11:17:17 AM
I hope that Thiel will rebound this week. I am sure that Coach Leip and his staff is dissappointed and that he is taking full blame for the stuggle. Saying that I think the team and staff will work hard at fixing the mistakes and preparing and will be better this week. About competing for the PAC title I think they have this week and one more week before they get back into PAC action and aslong as they get things rolling in those two weeks they will be a factor in the PAC race even with a loss to Geneva.

Albion is the last non-conference for Thiel before opening PAC play with Thomas More at home.  The Geneva loss doesn't apply for crowning a PAC champion since they have not fully converted to D3. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 12, 2007, 05:27:38 PM
South Willy,

I do not believe Thiel has the Hogs upfront on the offensive line maybe even on the defensive line to challenge for the PAC Championship.  Overall it seems as if its a down year in the PAC.  WJ does not seem to have its star studded class, Waynesburg lost a good amount of talent at skill positions, and from observing Thiel's first two games it seems as if they are rebuilding after 4 strong years of competing for the PAC Championship. 

Westminster and Grove City seem to have talent and are very competive if not dominant in their early games primarily WESTMINNIE, but i dont see them to be a huge threat to WJ or Waynesburg. 

Bethany on the other hand seems to have made solid progress with the new coaching staff and could very well surprise this year.  Victories over ST V, GCC, WestMIN, and Thiel are real possiblities this year. 

Thomas More seems to be very strong on the defensive side of the ball as usual, and their offense also seems to be ahead of the curve from last years team at this time. 

Overall I believe the PAC is rebuiliding with new faces this year and it should be exciting to see who makes the most progress. 

Good Luck to the PAC this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 14, 2007, 07:54:11 AM
Thoughts on this week's games?

Thomas More hosts Grove City....a team picked by a couple people in here to surprise this year....Hanover at W&J.... Will Geneva continue to play strong with their leftover partial scholarship guys?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 14, 2007, 08:27:07 AM
My thoughts on the games this week end.

Geneva 28 @ Westminnie 0

QB for Geneva is very good and he will dominate this game with 3 TD's(2 pass 1 rush)

Grove City 6 @ TMC 18

Defensive slug fest in this one as GCC held down the Tartans last week and keep this one close as well. Collier has big game rushing with 125 and two TDs.

Saint Vincent 0 @ Bethany 27

Bethany Jumps out to 2-0 as Joyner rips up the latrobe boys pretty good. im thinking 225 passing another 40 on the ground and 3 tds.

Thiel 21 @ Albion 18

Thiel finally gets in the win column with two defensive Td's early and holds off the rally. O still struggles and does enough to keep the victory with a late Minton TD romp.

Hanover 17 @ W&J 56

Hanover has no D what so ever and W&J has the normal explosive O. Look for fireworks early then Kleins boys take over on the defensive side. Swallow has a big game with 315 passing and 4 TD's. Mathews has big day as well with 140 rushing and 80 recieving. i cannot remember a better all purpose back in recent memory @ W&J.

Bonus Coverage.

Michigan 17 Notre Dame 0

Mallet throws two long TD's and Notre Dame shows how bad their offense is with no points against an awful Wolverine D.

Good Luck to All.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on September 14, 2007, 12:06:37 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on September 12, 2007, 11:17:17 AM
I don't know if Swallows is the best to ever where the Red and Black....Dawson was pretty dang good. But I think Swallows is definatly a great qb.

I hope that Thiel will rebound this week. I am sure that Coach Leip and his staff is dissappointed and that he is taking full blame for the stuggle. Saying that I think the team and staff will work hard at fixing the mistakes and preparing and will be better this week. About competing for the PAC title I think they have this week and one more week before they get back into PAC action and aslong as they get things rolling in those two weeks they will be a factor in the PAC race even with a loss to Geneva.


if im starting a team, i would take swallow over dawson.  ive seen both of them play over the years.  swallow is doing so much more with way less talent.  dawson had way better receivers, even though todd fry is the most overrated player in w&J history, he is still better than any of the WRs there now.  the best part about 'cool bob,' is that he does not make mistakes.  as a team w&J had 10 turnovers last year due in large part to his decision making.  i would be interested to see how he stacks up numbers wise against dawson at the end of his career, even tho he will have one less year starting
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 15, 2007, 02:14:40 PM
An FYI for Thiel watchers.  Albion is streaming video from http://media.albion.edu/sportsvid
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 15, 2007, 09:20:44 PM
Sounds like the turnover bug bit the Saints today at Beechwood HS....  23-16 Grove City.

They held Thomas More out of the endzone in the closing minute...


Young team though...starting a true freshman at QB.  The future is bright for the Saints.  I like the direction Hilvert is pointing this team towards..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on September 17, 2007, 01:33:54 AM
Congrats to my Tomcats for getting into the win column!!! The YOUNG offense is getting better and Defensive stepped it up.

P.S
The Defense got after the QB pretty good (7 sacks on the day), especially Lorber.  He has come a long way from the rookie I use to know, in fact, I may have to make way for a new SACK KING.  I think he only needs about eight more to dethrone me.  Good luck to him and the rest of the CATS, but hopefully I can hang on to the crown for a little longer ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on September 17, 2007, 09:57:50 AM
welcome to the official Bob Swallow is the greatest QB in W&J History Fanclub.  feel free to jump on the bandwagon
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 17, 2007, 10:06:35 AM
The coach for Hanover cannot wait for the season to end. W&J beat a team that was better off waking up and heading back to Indiana. W&J's Bobby Swallow took one record off the board on Saturday, tying Chris Edwards for 6 TDs in one game. The Presidents will roll through the regular season without any real problems. Maybe Waynesburg, but nothing really stands out. As for the playoffs the boys will have to tighten a few aspects of their game to make a run for the ship. As for the rest of the PAC I was happy for Thiel to get there first win. I did not want to go to Homecoming to see a 0fer team.  Do you guys think that maybe Bethany and Westminster will beat Thiel to finally pull out of the bottom of the barrel? Now that the season is under way what do you think the standings will be now?

W&J
Geneva
Waynesburg
Grove City
Thomas More
Bethany
Westminster
Thiel
Saint Vincent
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 17, 2007, 11:42:21 AM
Had a great weekend at BC with perfect weather and a record breaking offense. Running game producing really well which definitely opens up the passing game. First unit just scored at will in the first half.

Geneva will handle the Bison but I'm looking forward to a more competitive game than last year's blowouts to top ranked PAC opponents.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Big O on September 17, 2007, 11:55:35 AM
GCC is looking like a surprise team this year.
The Wolverines played two very good playoff teams tough
and beat TM on the road. TM was picked to finish 3rd in PAC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 17, 2007, 01:06:10 PM
TMC was picked to finish 4th, not 3rd.

1. Washington & Jefferson (22) 196 10-2 (6-0)
2. Waynesburg (4) 148 6-4 (5-1)
3. Thiel (3) 147 5-5 (4-2)
4. Thomas More 115 6-4 (2-4)
5. Grove City 73 3-7 (1-5)
6. Bethany 68 4-6 (2-4)
7. Westminster 67 2-8 (1-5)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2007, 12:11:58 PM
also...Thomas More is NOT the team that many thought they were during the Pre Season voting.  As a result of a couple key injuries they are very young (freshman) at a few key positions...  The inexperience showed on Saturday throwing 2 INT's in the endzone as they were trying to score..  However, that being said...GCC is improved though I don't think their win on Saturday is as big as it would have been without TMC's rough pre-season.


TMC is playing hard now...but will be a tougher game for the teams on their schedule later in the year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2007, 12:16:13 PM
by the way,

has anyone been to the Geneva website?  go to their page and then click on "winning tradition" and tell me what you think.   

bigern,

I'm afraid you're right....though I hope the young kids at TMC can provide some sort of scare for the Presidents.

Also Geneva can't finish in the conference standings.  Looks like they still have some good partial scholarship players playing now as Westminnie did back when they made the switch.  Will they follow the same path as Westminnie did??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 18, 2007, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2007, 12:16:13 PM
by the way,

has anyone been to the Geneva website?  go to their page and then click on "winning tradition" and tell me what you think.   


My thoughts are that everyone does PR as best as they can to sell themselves to recruits.    I am guessing it is factually correct - although some of the rankings quoted seem to be a bit contrived. 

I look at it as similar to W&J's "History" which notes "they have played in two Division III National Championship games in the past 10 years (1992, 1994)"  (hmm - somebody might want to change that to 15 years now...).   It sells the program as best as it can to the public and by extension to prospective players.   Why not?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on September 18, 2007, 01:23:00 PM
W&J faces Oberlin this weekend.  Not likely to be a "test" for the Presidents.  That said - does anyone know what W&J is going to do for the non-conference part of their schedule?  While Hanover hasn't put up much of a challenge lately I am expecting that they will still be on the schedule.   The NCAC teams - including Allegheny - have not reliabally made a game of it with W&J.   Certainly, W&J hasn't dodged talented teams entirely in recent history - Salisbury springs to mind.  But I am wondering what the non-conference outlook for W&J is now that there are so few spots to fill.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 18, 2007, 01:53:25 PM
I'm surprised W & J doesn't play CMU unless they feel it might be a post season preliminary.

I'm intersted to see if BC can compete with Geneva this Saturday night. Offensive line has played well against lower competition but the Geneva run defense is superb. If Joyner has any time, the aerial game can also carry the load.

Wesminster gave Geneva basically 4 defensive TDs in their 37-14 loss so perhaps with an turnover free offense, BC can make it a game, maybe 21-10. Probably wishful thinkling.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 19, 2007, 02:22:57 AM
W&J used to play in the PAC, but left the conference after the 1989 season. 

I don't know how factual this is, but I know there was some hard feelings at the time of their departure. 

The CMU faithful (or at least folks I knew that attended there) claimed it was better for them to move to the UAA overall as an athletic program.  We seemed to believe it more as them starting to take their lumps more times than not at that period. 

I always felt that may be the case, especially since they played (and continue to play) other PAC teams out of conference (Grove City, Bethany, etc)  but not W&J, and was told during my time there that CMU rebuffed attempts to schedule. 

Now, how much of that is true, who knows?  I do remember it was tougher to schedule teams when I was there outside of the conference,  because some teams thought it could jepordize any potential playoff standing or selection at the time.

   




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2007, 07:59:00 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on September 18, 2007, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2007, 12:16:13 PM
by the way,

has anyone been to the Geneva website?  go to their page and then click on "winning tradition" and tell me what you think.   


My thoughts are that everyone does PR as best as they can to sell themselves to recruits.    I am guessing it is factually correct - although some of the rankings quoted seem to be a bit contrived. 

I look at it as similar to W&J's "History" which notes "they have played in two Division III National Championship games in the past 10 years (1992, 1994)"  (hmm - somebody might want to change that to 15 years now...).   It sells the program as best as it can to the public and by extension to prospective players.   Why not?


oldphart,

ok here goes Thomas More's.....  All-time winningest college football program in Northern Kentucky......has made the NCAA Playoffs more times than any other team in Kentucky and Alaska....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 19, 2007, 11:21:01 AM
I think there are just plain 'errors' that I have read in the W&J PR things online and in their media guide.

They have listed at least four players I know of (and played with) that are listed as graduating three years later than they actualy did. 

It's probably more of 'you get what you pay for' than anything in terms of people actually tracking/compiling the information. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2007, 12:10:39 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on September 19, 2007, 11:21:01 AM
I think there are just plain 'errors' that I have read in the W&J PR things online and in their media guide.

They have listed at least four players I know of (and played with) that are listed as graduating three years later than they actualy did. 


If you found errrors, I'm sure Scott McGuinness would appreciate hearing about them:

smcguinness@washjeff.edu

Knowing him, he'll probably even CORRECT them... You get what you pay for, and he's pretty good at what he does!

Quote from: the_burghboy on September 19, 2007, 11:21:01 AM
W&J used to play in the PAC, but left the conference after the 1989 season. 



And, by the way, W&J never left the PAC.  CMU did.  Get what you pay for I guess.  j/k
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 19, 2007, 01:20:08 PM
I have no interest in emailing anyone over corrections on a media guide or online information.  Just simply responding with my opinion to an earlier topic and what I read.   Im lucky to have enough time to read/post here when I can.

Thanks for the correction on CMU and leaving the PAC, which I obviously meant.  Keep the change.  :)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jpdornberger on September 19, 2007, 04:42:35 PM
At the time CMU left the PAC - they were virtually tied with Bethany as W&J's longest rival having played CMU & Bethany over 60 times each.  In the early part of the 1900's they played big-time games at Forbes Field.  But after W&J got good they bailed - I guess trying to hold on to their 32-26-5 advantage.

Before Geneva went NAIA they were one of W&J's biggest rivals playing 54 times before this year.

Jim D.


Quote from: the_burghboy on September 19, 2007, 02:22:57 AM
W&J used to play in the PAC, but left the conference after the 1989 season. 

I don't know how factual this is, but I know there was some hard feelings at the time of their departure. 

The CMU faithful (or at least folks I knew that attended there) claimed it was better for them to move to the UAA overall as an athletic program.  We seemed to believe it more as them starting to take their lumps more times than not at that period. 

I always felt that may be the case, especially since they played (and continue to play) other PAC teams out of conference (Grove City, Bethany, etc)  but not W&J, and was told during my time there that CMU rebuffed attempts to schedule. 

Now, how much of that is true, who knows?  I do remember it was tougher to schedule teams when I was there outside of the conference,  because some teams thought it could jepordize any potential playoff standing or selection at the time.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 19, 2007, 05:20:02 PM
Very interesting post.

I do enjoy the media guide and previous programs in years past that list all of the W&J opponents (and let me thank Mr. McGuinness for this, or his predecessors if needed so nobody gets ruffled) and records. 

My brother in law actually played at CMU, where he was well versed on his program's history, notably Carnegie Tech defeating Notre Dame in 1926 of the days of Rockne (listed recently with the Michigan upset earlier this year:  http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-09-05-2831609473_x.htm)

We actually both agree that CMU and W&J should renew the rivalry, and we always hope for a first round matchup to occur in the playoffs when both are eligible.  Wishful thinking I guess.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 19, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I can understand not wanting to take on W & J annually as a non-conference opponent but CMU was always competitive in the PAC and certainly didn't have to move out to a softer 4 team conference. Their academic tradition certainly fits their present conferance but they generally fielded a pretty good team every year. The academics didn't seem to hinder the recruiting that much.
BC has been completely outplayed by both schools with a few exceptions & for over a century in W & Js case. During my 4 years at BC we went 2-2 with W & J which is probably as good as it gets for BC.
I enjoyed my time at BC and I'm glad to see my son playing ball for the Bison.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 20, 2007, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on September 17, 2007, 09:57:50 AM
welcome to the official Bob Swallow is the greatest QB in W&J History Fanclub.  feel free to jump on the bandwagon

I shot out the wheels on this wagon.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 20, 2007, 01:37:39 PM
Had a busy week last week and up to now this week.

Wanted to say congrats to all the PAC winners last week!

As for how I see the conference unfolding:


W&J
Waynesburg
Thiel
Westminster
Bethany
Grove City
Thomas More

Predictions:

Saturday, September 22
Thomas More at Thiel* – 1 p.m.

Thiel gets on track with a win last week as TMC lost their first conference game of the season to GCC. I see this being a tight game. I think that the Thiel defense will put alot of pressure on that TM offense and force a few turnovers in order to get thier first home and PAC win of the season.

Thiel 17     TMC 7


Bethany at Geneva* – 6:30 p.m.

Bethany is getting better game by game year by year. Geneva has scholarship people that are a step above. The game is interesting and exciting but Geneva is too much at the end.

Bethany 20  Geneva 31


Waynesburg at Grove City* – 7 p.m.

Grove City fresh off a huge victory vs TMC is under the lights to play the Yellow Jackets. Although the scene will be great, the visitors will be too much.

Waynesburg 27 GCC 14


Oberlin at Washington & Jefferson – 7 p.m.

Can you say offense??? W&J has it and there will be plenty of it. Too many weapons for Oberlin under the lights in Washington PA.

W&J 63 Oberlin 2

Saint Vincent, Westminster – open


Good Luck to everyone as PAC play really begins this week!!!
Title: D3 Rankings
Post by: jpdornberger on September 21, 2007, 10:28:05 AM
How does W&J who put up 50 by half-time get passed in the rankings by a team with an open date?

Jim D.
Title: Re: D3 Rankings
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on September 21, 2007, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: jpdornberger on September 21, 2007, 10:28:05 AM
How does W&J who put up 50 by half-time get passed in the rankings by a team with an open date?

Jim D.

It's not that voters moved Trinity (Texas) over Washington and Jefferson, it's that some ballots moved the Tigers up higher than they did the Presidents.

In other words, both TU and W&J received more points this week than last, it's simply that there were ballots that, because of other top 25 losses last week, bumped TU higher than they did W&J (because of who, if any, above them lost).

An example ... a voter may have had W&J ranked in his or her top 10, and Springfield (who lost) may have been already ranked below them. If they had Trinity at let's say No. 17 last week, then TU would have gained another vote or two from that voter with Springfield slipping down. W&J wouldn't, because they were already ranked above Springfield.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2007, 12:48:28 PM
yeah, what he said...

JK, that does explain it pretty well...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2007, 03:37:54 PM
TMC up 8-0 on Thiel with 2:25 left and Thiel at the 13 yard line of Thomas More...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2007, 03:43:23 PM
8-6 now, Thiel scores on a 4th down pass..from the 13.  2 point conversion is no good....incomplete pass to the fullback.


2 minutes left..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2007, 03:44:46 PM
Thomas More recovers the onside kick at the Thiel 40 yard line, 55 seconds left
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2007, 03:50:46 PM
4th and 6 with 5 seconds left for Thomas More deep on the Thiel 35 yard line...handoff to Collier with the clock running out. 

Good win for the Saints.

Thiel radio is calling the game an upset....a stretch perhaps.  But good win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on September 24, 2007, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on September 20, 2007, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on September 17, 2007, 09:57:50 AM
welcome to the official Bob Swallow is the greatest QB in W&J History Fanclub.  feel free to jump on the bandwagon

I shot out the wheels on this wagon.

how bout now?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 24, 2007, 10:26:08 AM
PittTBCW
I wanted to fill you in on a little bit of information before you go shooting wagon tires off and if it is anything like how you played i am sure Bobby Swallow will be just fine. This past game he was 15-20 passing with 5 TDs, that's only 11 TDs in the past two weeks and he has more TDs then incompletion. (10 incompletion to be exact). His pass efficiency is like 259 and passing completion is something like 72.9% (51-70). How do you like those figures.
Something else i wanted to comment on was the commentator at Thiel College. Which i had to listen to on the way down to Washington PA. Did he play football at all, because judging by the way he did not even know basic penalties or calls on the field such as when the Tomcats got a sideline warning he asked why would they throw a flag if there is not going to be a penalty? BECAUSE ITS A WARNING SO YOU DO NOT GET ONE BUDDY.  The best part about the game is them saying it was an UPSET, now in the wise words of Woody Hayes "it was never an upset, if the underdogs knew they were the better team the whole time." It was only an upset because of the beginning of the year rankings. Since the start of the season the Tomcats have been getting beat around like a rented mule its not like the Tomcats were undefeated going into the game. Thomas More is the better team. I also cannot wait to see the reactions of the Tomcat nation when they are back in the basement caged up where they belong.

Now talking about the game this past weekend at W&J. The defense with each week is starting to fine tune itself.  With fine play by Dave Gitlitz leading the defensive unit in Tackles and Senior Jeff Ernst leading in sacks. As time keeps pressing on the big-d should tighten its grip on future opponents ultimately leading to another  PAC Championship. As for the offense Swallow hit everyone who wanted the ball. The only people without completions I think were the linemen and Kickers. He really knows how to spread the ball around. That has a large impart to do with Coach Sirianni. He really knows how to dissects a defense. It's not like the olden days where you really did not have to coach too much. All you had to do was let the all stars like Chris Babirad get the ball and let them work his magic behind an offensive line larger than the Pittsburgh Steelers. With a much smaller line, talented QB, and the offensive brain of Michael Sirianni W&J can finally finish the job set back in the early 90's and actually win a national championship.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 24, 2007, 12:19:14 PM
SaintsFAN...Congrats on your win Saturday but what happened to the offenses. BC played hard against Geneva but has same problem as last year against a good team; can't stop the run at all. Minton & Hess will be a real problem for them next Saturday.
Our top receiver went down with broken ribs early in 3rd quarter so he'll be out for a while.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2007, 01:44:31 PM
southwilly,

I know that I can speak for Thomas More that they are a young team that is going to grind it out....they will stop the run and run the football well.  Freshman QB is coming along..  not sure about Thiel though

Sorry to hear about the WR..  Sounds like his QB hung him out to dry over the middle or something.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 24, 2007, 04:37:57 PM
SaintsFAN...

Well good luck stopping Mr. Heller next Saturday. Seems like he's just running over everyone. Quite a talent for D3. Wonder how MUC let him get away. Hopefully BC will be get healthy and give you guys a game at Bethany later in the season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 24, 2007, 08:14:10 PM
Quote from: Bigernernwj69 on September 24, 2007, 10:26:08 AM
All you had to do was let the all stars like Chris Babirad get the ball and let them work his magic behind an offensive line larger than the Pittsburgh Steelers.


Babs was great, but that comment makes the Thiel announcer look like John Clayton.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on September 25, 2007, 01:52:47 AM
Quote from: Bigernernwj69 on September 24, 2007, 10:26:08 AM
PittTBCW
ITomcats got a sideline warning he asked why would they throw a flag if there is not going to be a penalty? BECAUSE ITS A WARNING SO YOU DO NOT GET ONE BUDDY.  The best part about the game is them saying it was an UPSET, now in the wise words of Woody Hayes "it was never an upset, if the underdogs knew they were the better team the whole time." It was only an upset because of the beginning of the year rankings. Since the start of the season the Tomcats have been getting beat around like a rented mule its not like the Tomcats were undefeated going into the game. Thomas More is the better team. I also cannot wait to see the reactions of the Tomcat nation when they are back in the basement caged up where they belong.

Now talking about the game this past weekend at W&J. The defense with each week is starting to fine tune itself.  With fine play by Dave Gitlitz leading the defensive unit in Tackles and Senior Jeff Ernst leading in sacks. As time keeps pressing on the big-d should tighten its grip on future opponents ultimately leading to another  PAC Championship. As for the offense Swallow hit everyone who wanted the ball. The only people without completions I think were the linemen and Kickers. He really knows how to spread the ball around. That has a large impart to do with Coach Sirianni. He really knows how to dissects a defense. It's not like the olden days where you really did not have to coach too much. All you had to do was let the all stars like Chris Babirad get the ball and let them work his magic behind an offensive line larger than the Pittsburgh Steelers. With a much smaller line, talented QB, and the offensive brain of Michael Sirianni W&J can finally finish the job set back in the early 90's and actually win a national championship.


This B.S sounds like typical W&J arrogance.  Yeah, Thiel's having a slow start to the year, but offensively they very young especially on the O-Line.  We'll see how much noise you'll be talking after Oct. 6.   
Since you obviously have the standard W&J superiorty complex your probably thinking Thiel is outmatched especially against the "Almighty Bobby Swallow and W&J offensive".  That's funny b/c  I seem to remember that in 05' you guys had another "Almighty" QB who was lighting everybody up.  He was suppose to destroy the inexperienced Thiel defense that no longer had its All-American safety or its passers from years pass.  After throwing5 INTERCEPTIONS to the "inexperienced" Thiel secondary and taking a severe beating from the "nonthreatening" pass rushers the QB and the offense didn't look so "Divine".  If I'm not mistaking you guys got knocked off your HIGH HORSES that day, and a new CHAMP was crowned.
And since you like quotes so much let me quote Clint Eastwood "...Do you feel lucky, well do ya....". I leave the "punk" part out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2007, 08:08:45 AM
darkside,

both Thiel and Thomas More are very young this year.  I think the next 3 years of matchups between the schools will be very interesting, not to mention hard fought.


I also think the Thiel radio guy was pretty bad.  I remember when they scored the TD on Saturday....the refs were huddling to make the right call and he was screaming "that has to be a TD, why are the refs huddling...."

Probably one of the most homer moments in D3 radio history, probably 2nd to the Williams/Amherst call from the 1990s in "Heartstoppers and Hail Mary's -- 100 greatest college football game finishes".....the announcers that game didn't have their radio equipment in the first half, so they sat in the parking lot and drank until it arrived at halftime.  Then when their team won on the last play of the game, the ensuing remarks was one of the funniest things I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 25, 2007, 08:51:39 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on September 25, 2007, 01:52:47 AM
Quote from: Bigernernwj69 on September 24, 2007, 10:26:08 AM
This B.S sounds like typical W&J arrogance.  Yeah, Thiel's having a slow start to the year, but offensively they very young especially on the O-Line.  We'll see how much noise you'll be talking after Oct. 6.  
Since you obviously have the standard W&J superiorty complex your probably thinking Thiel is outmatched especially against the "Almighty Bobby Swallow and W&J offensive".  That's funny b/c  I seem to remember that in 05' you guys had another "Almighty" QB who was lighting everybody up.  He was suppose to destroy the inexperienced Thiel defense that no longer had its All-American safety or its passers from years pass.  After throwing5 INTERCEPTIONS to the "inexperienced" Thiel secondary and taking a severe beating from the "nonthreatening" pass rushers the QB and the offense didn't look so "Divine".  If I'm not mistaking you guys got knocked off your HIGH HORSES that day, and a new CHAMP was crowned.
And since you like quotes so much let me quote Clint Eastwood "...Do you feel lucky, well do ya....". I leave the "punk" part out.




Lets put things back into reality Darkside which i think is the dumbest chant ever when crossing the fifty, when i went to W&J we past the fifty a lot and trust me heard that chant a lot. I will give you the one win and your first PAC championship, but do not ever put yourself in the same class as W&J. For instance we win the PAC because we are suppose to HENCE PRESIDENT ATHLETIC CONFERENCE, therefore we do not have a big party and buy team rings. You would have thought you guys won the national championship after beating us. Now let's put something else into perspective. Thiel is last in the conference right now and Thiel even though they have a young offensive line they are still suppose to have the best running back in the conference Minton. Once again i would not think that someone who works at McDonalds would know any better. The only reason you went to Thiel is because W&J did not want you and your grades where something like 2.2 GPA and SAT's 890. We do not only recruit kids that can play ball but also kids who can read and write. That's one big difference from our two schools. How many times in a row did W&J beat Thiel before the upset? I will tell you it was something like the first time in 24 years. Also Darkside, if for one second you think the team this year at Thiel is even close to the caliber of the team that came into Cameron two years ago then you are on drugs. Your O-line will feel the wrath of W&J's front seven. Look for people like Jeff Ernst to get his second National award from d3football.com, and when you play Grove City I will be looking for their defensive player to have a field day as well. Which in the end no matter how you look at Thiel was a one hit wonder. Time for the upper tier teams to take back over the league. Which do not included Thiel. Thomas More yes Thiel no.

Saintfan,
In a couple of weeks i will be looking forward to having a few beers with ya. Who do the saints got this weekend?

try not to get to involved darkside in this battle of schools as I quote Sonny in GodFather
"Sonny: What are you doing? Nice college boy. Doesn't wanna get mixed up in the family business. You think this is a battle field where you shoot someone a mile away? No, you get a 45' shoot them up close and bada bing blood all over your nice ivy league suit."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 25, 2007, 09:31:52 AM
Bigerner,

What did YOU do when you were at W&J?  Did you ever make all conference?  Were you an average player on an above average W&J team?  I would be willing to bet the second question is true.......... it's funny because the people who come onto these boards and talk up a storm like you do usually never did much in there playing days, and they try to make up for it by talking a lot.  I'm sure your playing on the field never backed up all your talk..... actually... I'm sure of it
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2007, 09:52:37 AM
oldtimer,

I had a terrible TD to INT ratio when I played....

I even threw one to a Defensive Lineman against Thiel on a screen pass   ??? 

bigern,

we play Waynesburg this week...might be a tough matchup...with the Burgers being 3-0.  Then again, they gave up 35 points to a bad Wooster squad, but then again the season openning win against Muskingum is not a bad win at all.   I guess it depends on which team shows up for TMC and which team shows up for Waynesburg.

November 3rd at Dixie Heights HS (down the road from TMore)....maybe this will be played on campus?  I think I'll be there, bigern.....BUT there's one thing that would stop it....  Notre Dame vs. Navy...  some buddies and I have tickets.  I'm not sure what we are going to do yet since the Irish have only scored 2 TD's on offense this year.  I don't want to see "The Streak" end against the Middies....we haven't lost to Navy since Staubach was QB.   Staubach was here at work for a ceremony two weeks ago, but I didn't get a chance to ask him what he thought of their chances this year..

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 25, 2007, 11:41:13 AM
To help out BigErn. Two year starting center who may have not been all confernce but was an emotional leader on a very good team. Came back 5 games after a blown knee to play through 3 rounds of playoff games when can Thiel ever say that. Darkside you were a very very good player and all everything but what happened in 04 when that big time pass rush got buried in the ground with 250 yds from Zitz and Mendel. Thiel had their one year in the spot light and Leip turned that ship around in 05. Now no more dwelling in the past but Thiel is down this year and W&J is up. W&J is in a title fight and they are going to take everyones best shot. Dont think W&J is all flash and pass with Swallow. Mathews and Jones are a fast and formidable backfield. Thiel will come and play their superbowl for the year and we will see what happens. I respect the job Leip has done at Thiel and i hope that they do not fall in the basement and can continue the Rivalry with W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 25, 2007, 12:34:42 PM
Well I guess some sympathy to Bigern then because he played center and it would have been hard to beat out Thiel's center for all PAC through those years, he was pretty good.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 25, 2007, 02:37:35 PM
Can I address the 'arrogance' issue?

I definitely have seen it from some W&J posters since I have been here, but I think it equates more to who is having success that year.   

I noticed the same arrogance a while ago when Thiel was going toe to toe with W&J, and the year that Waynesburg won the conference?  Well, I haven't seen any of those posters since.  :D

If I come across arrogant, please feel free to put me in my place.  I admit (to no offense to the other PAC posters/supporters) that I see the expectation of W&J at MORE than winning the PAC, just because that's the expectation there.  Or should continue to be.

As for my playing time and honors, if you really want to know, I'm happy to tell it privately, but don't think that should give me any more or less credibility.  I post a lot at work and prefer to be as anonymus as possible.  I would rather share my opinions with keeping my war stories at a minimum.  Besides, my Dad used to tell me that if one has to brag about something,  they probably didn't do it.   ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2007, 03:04:49 PM
burghboy,

so bragging about NOT playing very well at QB, whats that make me??

haha
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2007, 03:36:06 PM
Well grounded. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2007, 03:44:00 PM
Pat,

I was that too...wait.  I thought you meant on the ground alot.   ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on September 25, 2007, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: Bigernernwj69 on September 25, 2007, 08:51:39 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on September 25, 2007, 01:52:47 AM
[quote author=Bigernernwj69 link=topic=3947.msg761612#msg761612 date=119064396
Lets put things back into reality Darkside which i think is the dumbest chant ever when crossing the fifty, when i went to W&J we past the fifty a lot and trust me heard that chant a lot. I will give you the one win and your first PAC championship, but do not ever put yourself in the same class as W&J. For instance we win the PAC because we are suppose to HENCE PRESIDENT ATHLETIC CONFERENCE, therefore we do not have a big party and buy team rings. You would have thought you guys won the national championship after beating us. Now let's put something else into perspective. Thiel is last in the conference right now and Thiel even though they have a young offensive line they are still suppose to have the best running back in the conference Minton. Once again i would not think that someone who works at McDonalds would know any better. The only reason you went to Thiel is because W&J did not want you and your grades where something like 2.2 GPA and SAT's 890. We do not only recruit kids that can play ball but also kids who can read and write. That's one big difference from our two schools. How many times in a row did W&J beat Thiel before the upset? I will tell you it was something like the first time in 24 years. Also Darkside, if for one second you think the team this year at Thiel is even close to the caliber of the team that came into Cameron two years ago then you are on drugs. Your O-line will feel the wrath of W&J's front seven. Look for people like Jeff Ernst to get his second National award from d3football.com, and when you play Grove City I will be looking for their defensive player to have a field day as well. Which in the end no matter how you look at Thiel was a one hit wonder. Time for the upper tier teams to take back over the league. Which do not included Thiel. Thomas More yes Thiel no.


Hey smallerner,
Reading your post went like this: Blaaaaahblaaaaaahblaaaaahblahblahlblahblah, I'm an arrogant W&J has been, blahblahblahblahblahblahblah, I have no life outside of W&J, blahblahblahblah, but then you actually said somethings that caught my attention.  First, you said that the only reason I went to Thiel was b/c W&J didn't want me, which is funny b/c W&J was the first school to recruit me my Sr. year of high school.  In fact Coach Banizack (sp) and Coach Durham (sp) did such a good job recruiting me that I almost commited.  The next funny thing you said is that I wasn't smart enough to get into W&J, which is hilarious b/c the main reason I chose Thiel over W&J was due to the fact that Thiel gave me a full tuition acaedemic scholarship, while W&J only covered half.  Then, me being the "dummy" that I am, I graduated in 4yrs with an "A" average majoring in Biology and minoring in Chemistry.  Then, I got even dumber and received another full tuition scholarship to UT School of Medicine. 
The funniest thing of all is that even with you being the W&J coat tail rider that you are, I probably have more respect at W&J than you do.  The next time your on their campus trying to relive your unglory days, tell Coach S. and the W&J faithful that #90 from Thiel sends his regards.  Don't worry even though they might not know you, they'll know who your talking about.
Now I have to get back to studying. ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2007, 04:29:33 PM
SaintsFAN: Nice. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on September 25, 2007, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on September 25, 2007, 11:41:13 AM
To help out BigErn. Two year starting center who may have not been all confernce but was an emotional leader on a very good team. Came back 5 games after a blown knee to play through 3 rounds of playoff games when can Thiel ever say that. Darkside you were a very very good player and all everything but what happened in 04 when that big time pass rush got buried in the ground with 250 yds from Zitz and Mendel. Thiel had their one year in the spot light and Leip turned that ship around in 05. Now no more dwelling in the past but Thiel is down this year and W&J is up. W&J is in a title fight and they are going to take everyones best shot. Dont think W&J is all flash and pass with Swallow. Mathews and Jones are a fast and formidable backfield. Thiel will come and play their superbowl for the year and we will see what happens. I respect the job Leip has done at Thiel and i hope that they do not fall in the basement and can continue the Rivalry with W&J.

hey Wes,
Thanks for the personal compliment, but about the 04 comments.  It doesn't really make sense to question the effectiveness of Thiel's pass rushers by talking about how effective W&J's running game was.  You want to know what happened to the pass rush, well considering that you guys only passed about 12X for something like 70 yrds, I don't really thing we need much of a pass rush.  I'll be the first to admit that I wouldn't have being throwing much either if I had Big Z and Mendel pounding the rock like that, and I think they actually rushed for more like 275 on us that day.  The thing is that not needing to pass b/c of a effective running game has never stopped W&J from throwing the ball.  Passing is in your blood, and the main reason they didn't was b/c of the PASS RUSH.  I gained alot of respect for W&J that day.  Instead of being stubborn and taking the risk of throwing the ball they played it smart and kept pounding the rock and not only preserved the lead but they extended it.  If they had taken that same approach in 05 they might have survived the Thiel Blitzkrieg instead they underestimated the Thiel secondary.  Despite not having 4 time All-American Kennard Davis back there Thiel was able to pick Edwards off 5X and the PASS RUSHERS gave the poor kid a beating. 
If you want us to stay in the present then don't bring up subjects from the past, or I'll have to respond.  When it comes down to it as a player I had a lot of hostility towards W&J, but I always respected that program.  Most of all I have major respect for its coaches from Coach Banizak (sp) to Coach Sirianni (sp) both of whom showed me a great deal of respect.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 25, 2007, 11:05:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2007, 03:04:49 PM
burghboy,

so bragging about NOT playing very well at QB, whats that make me??

haha

Very well rounded and credible.  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 25, 2007, 11:40:06 PM
Darkside agree with you completely we ran the ball right at you as we respected your pass rush ability and wanted to limit that. Also felt you were very undersized and could run at the d Line. I wish they would have ran the ball more in 05 as well it could have cut down on TO. Again they played to the strengths of that team which was 5 great WR and 1 big time QB. They were able to pass for a good amount of yards but the picks killed and were a direct result of pressure. I only threw the 04 comment out there as a jarb back at the 05 comment. Just a good natured comeback i am glad you are doing well for yourself. We def could have used your pass rush in the playoffs a few times. We will see what happens in a couple of weeks between the Tomcats and the Prez.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 26, 2007, 08:20:23 AM
Hey guys great article on W&J QB/RB in the "Around the Region" feature on the front page.  What I really like is how these two juniors both have their priorities straight...talking about going to grad school after they graduate.  In my opinion, this is the essence of Division III football. 


Some picks for this weekend? 

I like Thomas More....homecoming....football alums being asked to come back....its going to be a great day to be a Saint. 

(this prediction is sponsored by Thiel Radio)   ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 26, 2007, 09:10:59 AM
SaintsFAN....How in the world is your young offense going to score enough points to offset the WC running game. With only one score at Thiel it doesn't  bode well even at homecoming.
My question, does anythink BC can stay with Thiel????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 26, 2007, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: Bigernernwj69 on September 24, 2007, 10:26:08 AM
PittTBCW
I wanted to fill you in on a little bit of information before you go shooting wagon tires off and if it is anything like how you played i am sure Bobby Swallow will be just fine.

How do you know how I played???

Its my opinion and I stand by it. I have seen both play. I think Dawson is a better qb. I don't need stats to justify why I think Dawson is better. Just because someone has better stats does not make them a better qb all of the time. Being a qb means more then throwing the pill around and scoring TD's against teams that aren't very good. I want to see him play more before I can say he is the best qb ever to play at W&J. He might end up being the best but right now I would take Dawson. My opinion could change next week, next month, maybe next year, maybe in 2040 when the Penguins lease is up. Unlike you I don't think I know everything.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 26, 2007, 09:43:06 AM
Bigern,

Lost alot of respect for you plain and simple. Bashing Thiel College might make you feel good but there are alot of people that called Greenville home for many years. Those people went on to do alot of good all over. I know a few W&J grads that aren't exactly making ends meet. W&J is a great school with alot of prestige. It also seems to have some people who aren't first class and respectable like yourself. Maybe instead of humping Swallows you can get your head out of you know where and wake up and smell the coffee. I hope I never meet you and you change your tune because if I happen to run into you your going to be remembering the darkside for along time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 26, 2007, 10:33:01 AM
Now onto football.

Which is the reason we are all here.

Here is what I am thinking as conference play comes into full swing.

W&J looks like a team to be wreckened with this year. They look like a complete team that can hopefully represent the PAC well into the playoffs and maybe get down to the Stagg Bowl. I think the only thing that could stop them this year in the PAC is themselves. If they come to play week in and week out the sky is the limit for this talented bunch.

Thiel dispite having Minton back this looks to be a rebuilding year at qb and O Line. Its very hard in a tough conference that is improving year after year to compete with first year starters for the conference championship. They have a tremendous head coach who puts together a solid coaching staff year in and  year out. I think they have a bright future and have turned the corner with their program and will not return to the doom days of cellar dweller.

Bethany is improving every day. They suffered some injuries this year but look like they will compete and win some games this year in the PAC. The future is bright down in WV and I think everyone will agree after this season is finished.

Thomas More had a disappointing game vs GCC but responded with a good win for a young TMC team vs the Tomcats last week on the road. They will gain alot of experience this year that will help them in the upcoming years compete for a conference championship. I think they are great for the PAC and could play spoiler this year.

Waynesburg's Heller is the real deal and will be the face of the program for the next few years. The defense is also very tough. They are a solid group that is good enough to help keep their run oriented offense in the game. I think that their matchup with W&J will be for the conference championship. They have showed that they can come from behind but will they have enough horse power to stay with the President's?

St. Vincent is in its first year and they are not doing a bad job by any means. They put together a solid staff and have some good players from around the area. They are making improvements and will get better each week. They may take their lumps this year but they are gaining alot of experience in their young players which will help them in the next few years.

Westminister is showing positive signs that they are going to be a team worth talking about again in the PAC. They have a mix between seniors and underclassmen that will make for an exciting time in the PAC this year. If they can limit their turnovers and have a few people step up they could also play spoiler this year. They will need more out of thier SR qb and wideout and this week will be a good test in their conference opener vs GCC.

GCC let a lead slip away from Waynesburg but went on to beat a young TMC team. They need to win the close ones if they want to do anything in the PAC this year. The Wolverines will need to stretch the field if they want to get their offense on track and will stand behind their defense.

Geneva is not eligible for the conference championship but they are giving the PAC a dose of what is to come for the next few years. They will shine an interesting light on the conference and will make things more competitive. I think they will be contenders in the PAC.

Good luck to all teams this week. I will have my predictions later in the week!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 26, 2007, 10:52:17 AM
Hello PittTCBW,

Good to see you posting again.   :)

How many players at Geneva are NAIA Scholarship holdovers (kids that went to Geneva only because they got a "football scholarship", for however much that is worth), and how many are the type of kids that will continue to come to Geneva because of geographical placement, education quality, family tradition, etc.?

Thanks for the analysis.

If W&J gets past the northern sub-bracket, we Texas schools (and a deceptively strong Millsaps may be in that appellation) are interested to see how they will hang with UMHB or Millsaps.

The past record of W&J versus HSU (1999), Trinity (2002) and UMHB (2004, 2006)  is 0-4 by more than a 42-14 average, deep in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 26, 2007, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: South Willy on September 26, 2007, 09:10:59 AM
SaintsFAN....How in the world is your young offense going to score enough points to offset the WC running game. With only one score at Thiel it doesn't  bode well even at homecoming.
My question, does anythink BC can stay with Thiel????

Willy,

Its simple....its a VERY young offense...with a brand new staff and scheme.   These guys have been consistently inconsistent this year as far as points go.  They have a freshman QB running the offense.  They are going to get better....and as always will be able to count on Collier for 130-150 yards.   Also this Waynesburg team gave up 35 points to a very down Wooster team in week 2.  The onus is on the Saints to prove the GCC game was an abberation.  2 TO's in the final six minutes did the Saints in that day.  

GCC caught us early in the season....

I think we're (Saints Fans) going to really like the way this team plays late in the year..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 26, 2007, 11:07:33 AM
I want to touch on what, I think, Ralph started to bring up.  I've been considering this for a few weeks. 

I also think Geneva is a good addition to the PAC, but consider Westminster as far as future play is concerned.

Westminsters first year playing a schedule with D3 team they went 8-2 (2000)...as they continued their transition into NCAA Division III in 2001, they went 4-5.  Then their first full year as PAC and NCAA members was their best at 8-2.  After that they were average in 2003, 2004, and 2005 (14-16 overall).  Why?  They weren't able to give out the partial scholarships they had with the NAIA status. 

I believe they have a good coach at Geneva, so I don't think they will have that big a drop off....but it will be interesting to see how Geneva looks once the playing field is equal as far as grant-in-aids go. 

and Pitt, you did qualify your statement when you mentioned the next few years....what I am talking about is the next class of recruits after that....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 26, 2007, 11:36:08 AM
Ralph,

Great point about Geneva. I think that they will continue to recruit quality players. They might take an early hit like Westminster did but I look for them to be at the top of the PAC.

I see your concern with W&J playing the Texas teams and Millsapps. Only time will tell if they can exercise those demons. They still have to get through the PAC and you know ever team will be looking for them each week. They are always a top team in the PAC and have targets on them each week because of this.

Saints,

I think BC is a little banged up and they are going to TC for homecoming. I think that BC can beat the struggling Tomcats if they can stop their running attack. The defense will be fired up and will be tough against BC. I think this game will be a good game that will decided by turnovers. I look for the Tomcats to prevail but it won't be easy by anymeans.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 26, 2007, 12:48:02 PM
PittTBCW,

I agree than the Thiel running game will be the big key. Only one injury for BC but it is a key receiver and a freshman takes his place. The Bison seemed to lay down when facing better teams last year, with the exception of TMC, but they played hard against Geneva which was a positive sign. Front seven on defense still having great difficultly in stopping any solid running game. Joyner is only completing 46% of passes (left out ST Vincent game) but has thrown minimal interceptions. Needs to be more consistent. If BC gets down early they may get run over.

I was planning on flying up for the game but with my guy out of the lineup I'll stay in dreary old Florida.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 26, 2007, 01:12:05 PM
Willy,

I think they also lost a good defensive player. Can't think of his name but heard it might even be career ending. He was a freshman I think. Linebacker maybe. Heard it through the grapevine so I am not sure how true.

I agree, if Thiel's running game is on target it could be along day for the Bison.

What part of FLA you live in? I travel to Naples for some golf every May. I love it down there!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 26, 2007, 01:17:23 PM
Pitt,

Not sure about the defensive player injury but my son said a DL player quit the team this week and he saw some action against Gen.

I live Naples and I agree, I love SW Florida!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 26, 2007, 02:06:13 PM
Maybe when I come down in May we can play some golf. I stay at Naples Hertiage but play all over.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on September 27, 2007, 01:20:55 PM
Friday is going to be a busy day for me so here are my predictions for this week:

Saturday, September 29

Bethany at Thiel* - 1 p.m.
Bethany visits Thiel on their homecoming. Alumni Stadium will be packed with former players and coaches as they look to right the ship this week. Thiel's defensive will have to be the difference if they want to win this ball game. On offense they will have to control the ball and get their run game going. Joyner and the Bison will have to try and beat them through the air as I think they will have a tough time getting the run game going vs the Tomcats. If Bethany is successful throwing the football then it could be a long day for the Tomcats. But I have come up with a simple equation for this game: Thiel = Homecoming = Win.

Tomcats 21 Bison 17

Grove City at Westminster* – 1:30 p.m.
These two colleges are only seperated by a few miles. GCC will make the trip to New Wilmington but it won't be a successful one. Led by their offense the Titans will keep the Wolverines off balance and thier defense on the field far too long. GCC can't find the knack to win. They force a few turnovers but make too many mistakes as thier in ability to run the ball on the Westminister defense makes them one dimensional. Romeo is the difference in the ballgame.

Westminster 27 GCC 21


Washington & Jefferson at Saint Vincent* - 1:30 p.m.

W&J is running on all cylinders after only a few weeks into the season. Nothing changes as they welcome PAC newcomers SVC to the cream of the crop in the PAC. Mathews and Swallows will continue to have impressive seasons and the defense led by Gitlitz will be too fast and dominent in this one. SVC playing at home will have something to strive for after getting a taste of one of the top teams in the country in D3 football.

Presidents 56 SVC 6


Waynesburg at Thomas More* – 2:30 p.m.

The Yellow Jackets take their highly touted freshman running back Heller into Kentucky looking for a road victory against a steadily improving young Saints team. The running games of both these teams rank 1 and 2 respectivly in the conference but I believe Heller is too much for the Saints but freshman QB Gauger and RB Collier make it tough on the Yellow Jacket defense.

Waynesburg 31 TMC 21 

La Salle at Geneva – 4 p.m.

Don't know too much about La Salle. Geneva is a good team that played W&J tough and won their 3 other games. I will be biased and take the Golden Tornadoes at home.

Geneva 24 to 21


Best of Luck to all teams this weekend!!

GO TOMCATS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 27, 2007, 06:59:12 PM


Bethany at Thiel*
Possible game of two teams headed in opposite directions? I beleive Thiel will end the talk and send the Bison home with a loss. Lorber sacks Joyner twice and forces a fumble that is taken to the house. Darkside wins this game in a nail biter.

Tomcats 13 Bison 7

Grove City at Westminster*
Amish country rivalry in this one. I look for the GCC offense to have a big day passing on the Titan suspect D. I also look for some big time passing from the Titans. Two good passing teams + Not so great D = Shootout.

Westminster 24 GCC 31

Washington & Jefferson at Saint Vincent*

The prez roll onto Chuck Knoll field and right through Saint Vincent. Look out as the prez might get their old points scored in the first quarter back in this one. Swallow throws no incompletions and three Td's. Jones and Mathews both eclipse 100 yds. I think with more recruiting a couple years from now Saint Vincent will be a team to be reckoned with. Colbert is a hell of a coach and put some impressive gameplans on W&J with Bridgewater.

Presidents 72 SVC 6

La Salle at Geneva
La Salle is 1-AA or FCS now i believe. I look for the Tornados to fall in a close one. A Few injuries last week for them may hurt.

La Salle 27 Geneva 17


Game of the week
Waynesburg at Thomas More*
Heller is putting up some impressive numbers. I think if he played at USC or TJ instead of Ringgold he would be somewhere else. Hats off to the jackets for landing him. Ryan Abels rushing record may fall this year if he keeps it up. I think the Yellow Orange jackets run right through T more. New Coach and freshman QB too much to overcome. Heller has 250 on 38 carries and 4 TD's

Waynesburg 35 TMC 7

Good Luck to all!

Go W&J

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 28, 2007, 08:20:58 AM
Whoah, Wes....you "Game of the Week" is a Monkey Stomp??

Its going to be tough this week for the Saints, but I know they've been challenged to stop Heller.  We'll see...someone has to.  Might as well be us.  They stopped Thiel's Minton last week. 

What I hope is that the Saints are up by about 6,7,8 or more....our kicking game has been terrible. 

Also know this...with the two teams running like they do with Heller and Collier, the game clock is going to fly....not enough time for someone to score 35 points (especially if both teams are running it well). 

Time will tell....AND there's an old "friend" of mine from college showing up (she hates football), so its going to be a good day either way.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MandO18 on September 28, 2007, 08:49:23 AM
Geneva should pound LaSalle. Although they are 1AA they have a 28-0 loss to Ursinus and a 1 point loss to TCNJ. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think LaSalle has ever beaten a DIII team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 28, 2007, 09:51:41 AM
I bet Pat Coleman knows...

I'm guessing you are right though...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 28, 2007, 09:53:30 AM
Did not know much about La Salle just put that one out there. After looking at who they have played i agree and like the Tornados but we will see. Saints sounds like you should have a entertaining weekend. Quick question about the offense for T more is their coach running spread with the new qb and talented rb or is does he have a more traditional approach to offense. Seems like the QB is mobile and can throw and would fit a spread offense as would Collier.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on September 28, 2007, 10:02:24 AM
When Grove City played at Thomas More, TMC used the shotgun about 90 percent of the time. They were primarily one-back (Collier), although Kyle James periodically lined up on the other side of the QB as a fullback/H-back.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 28, 2007, 10:51:09 AM
They are spread offense in Crestview Hills. 

I wish we employed the shotgun when I was in school.  We tried it for one practice in 1997 and our center sent 3 snaps over the QBs heads...  experiment over.  I can still hear our coach saying "oh Jesus, Joe..COME ON!"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 28, 2007, 11:07:39 AM
Spread is a lot of fun even for lineman. Was some of the reason i attended W&J as they ran that type of offense. It is all the rage and if run correctly is very difficult to defend. I never played center and was put there as a freshman and was one of those who snapped over a 6-5 QB.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 28, 2007, 11:58:05 AM
All my days were spent at center but very few shotgun snaps in the 70s...
On long snaps I was better known for the "short hop" than the high ball.

Just read the predictions and I hope BC can just play to those predictions. Injuries will slow offense.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Big O on September 28, 2007, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: MandO18 on September 28, 2007, 08:49:23 AM
Geneva should pound LaSalle. Although they are 1AA they have a 28-0 loss to Ursinus and a 1 point loss to TCNJ. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think LaSalle has ever beaten a DIII team.

This isn't really a 1AA team vs a D3 team...since this is Geneva's first year in D3, it's really more of a 1AA vs NAIA since all of their key players are still guys on scholarship.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2007, 02:53:52 PM
La Salle has won games against D-III teams, but is well below .500 against them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 28, 2007, 05:19:04 PM
PittTBCW,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you i have been working and was unable to write during the last couple of days. There are a few things that have been fermenting in my head for that last couple of days. 1) i did talk to some people about you and they told me you were a good guy, so i will take there word for it, but do not ever threaten me again with "showing me what the darkside really means". You do not know me so please ease off the threats and keep it football. Now . Just stick to the topics at hand. 2) Munch was a really good center i played with him in an all-star game. Real classy dude. 3) When i make comments about your school its just to make fun in a joking matter. I know a lot of dudes who played football, baseball and just flat out went to the school. So if joking around about your school makes you upset i will stop it. So PittTBCW  Take it easy bud. Its all good. Football is what brings us together on this page, so lets not get to upset about it. Football is a sport that we all love and still have a major passion for and that is the reason why we root our teams on week in and week out.

Wes,

You coming down for the homecoming game? If so make sure you contact me, I am staying the night down there and we will have to hook up before the game for some tailgating.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on September 28, 2007, 05:30:02 PM
Now on to football

I am calling out the upset of the week. I think bethany's defense will keep the game close and the final score will be Beth 17 and Thiel 14. Turn over in the redzone will cost the Tomcats.

The most exciting game of the week will go to the Yellow Jackets and Saints. Waynesburgh will ran the ball a lot but i think the Saints will shut down the run game and give the Yellow jackets a dog fight. WC 21 Saints 14. Saints will lose but gain a lot of confidence.

GC will roll Westminster College with a 42-14 score.

Geneva will beat Lasalle. I think that Geneva's number 9 is one of the best players in the PAC. He will have a Force Fumble for a TD. score being 28-24.


W&J will beat St. V's 76-0. Presidents get back there record of most points in one quarter scoring 54 in the first quarter. Kliens defense proves way to much for St. V. Gitlitz will lead the way and have a defensive TD.


I know these predictions are crazy, but so is football. Have a great weekend

Go Presidents

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 29, 2007, 05:45:25 PM
Waynesburg 20
Thomas MOre 6

Final

bigern,

not a very exciting game and except for a 67 yard run by Heller, TMC's defense didn't do bad with containing the freshman.  This is a young, young TMC team...but they play hard.  This team is still coming together.....they will be judged on their stretch run against MSJ and W&J.  Their QB's are growing up fast...future is bright for Thomas More. 

As for Waynesburg....I don't think they'll threaten W&J this year.  Heller is VERY good...forces alot of MT's...BUT, with as much as they use him...he's going to tire out and/or get nicked up this year.  Their offenses consists of screens and runs by Heller and not much else.  QB is terrible...offensive line holds their blocks long enough for Heller to make his cut...  If you put a spy on Heller (has to be your best athlete) and you should stop this team. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on September 29, 2007, 06:54:19 PM
W&J 64 Saint Vincent 6

839 yards of offense for W&J. Stats Day for Mathews and Swallow.

Saints sounds like that young team held tough for sure impressive. Sounds like Waynesburg is going with the same approach as last year with Abels. One dimensional will not work against a good team. Short passing game mixed with a running game is what always gave us trouble at W&J. Big game this week end in Washpa with the Tomcats coming to town. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 29, 2007, 10:50:15 PM
I went to St. Vincent today for the game, and as much as I enjoyed the afternoon, have to wonder how good this W&J team is.

No offense and fault to them, and in college football anything can happen, but with the competition level on paper ahead one has to wonder if they will be challenged.

I don't mean that in an arrogant manner by any means, but would like to see them go deep in a playoff chase again.  With Thiel having what looks to be a down year, and on schedule not anything that looks like a road bump, it's so hard to evaluate how they may be until they get into the postseason. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 01, 2007, 09:48:52 AM
Big Ern,

You are right I did over react. I am sorry. You are exactly right that we are here to talk football and joke around. I had a very stressful day that day and just overreacted and took it out on you. I apologize.

Looks like the Thiel @ W&J game this weekend could be better then what was first expected. Thiel finally got going last week putting up school record on the ground. But the real question will be if Thiel can stop or contain the W&J offense as they put up a school record 800+ yards. I will be at the game this Saturday and hope to see a good game. Last  year the Tomcats let one get away as they had a lead at halftime then shot themselves in the foot. I think they certainly will have thier handful this week but I think the rivalry will bring out the best in both teams.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 01, 2007, 09:56:06 AM
burghboy agree with you 100% schedule thus far has been fairly week. Geneva was a good test but i believe any playoff team is better than them. I think Waynesburg at the end of year will be a good test. Thiel will give them a battle as they always play up for the prez. If W&J plays the way they are capable of playing then they will have no problems wiping through the schedule. Would like them to add a little tougher non conference schedule. A lot of teams like UMHB and UW Whitewater are playing other ranked teams out of conference. obviously something would have to be worked out schedule and travel wise. With the automatic qualifier now in place a showdown with a playoff team or strong team may be a possiblitiy down the road.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 01, 2007, 10:40:18 AM
PittTcbw,

Its all good. Come over to the tent for a beer before the game. The season starts right now for W&J not being Arrogant, but the beginning of the season schedule was pretty weak except Geneva. The aspect that scares me the most about Saturday's game is special teams. Even though w&j Offense broke a record and the defense was pretty tough. The special teams were terrible. Grabner missed another extra point and field goal and St. Vincent was one person away each time on Kick off from breaking it. This is not the first week that this has happened. Each week the BOOM Squad as they like to be called has given up a big play on Kickoff. I am fearful that as the year goes on and the Presidents start facing tougher opponents that this could cause them to fall. I remember playing MHB in the playoffs and they score 31 points off of our special teams. With blocked punts, punt returns for TD and blocking our field goals. I do not understand how all those athletes cannot get down the field and stay in there lanes. The coaches can only do so much for the kids they got to want and do it. I am really looking forward for them to get that aspect of the game back. This could be the decider for this weeks game. One of the things that scares me about this weeks game is Thiels trickery on special teams. The Tomcat team has a lot of tricks up their sleeves. They are known for their fake field goals, fake punts, onside kicks, and reverses on kickoffs. So i am not only excited to see the Presidents step up and show that they are great players, but also to see what kind of trickery the Tomcats will through at them. 

I wanted to commend the Bears for still fighting with W&J all the way until the end. I was at the game and even though they got killed the kids never quit. I felt really bad for the coach because he lost like eight players. 6 i think had to be carted off and a few went to the hospital. Also Coach Sirianni was a class act not running the score up. From the looks of it too all the kids on W&J sidelines that traveled got a chance to play at least one snap. Very nicely done.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 01, 2007, 11:10:30 AM
Bigern,

Not sure what time I am getting to the stadium as I have coaching duties that will keep me from getting down to the game real early. But if I do I will try. Thanks for the invitation. I will be out that night with one of my buddies so maybe we can meet up for a beer then if not before.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2007, 01:48:52 PM
I really don't think, based on what I saw Saturday, that Waynesburg will challenge W&J a whole lot.  Lets face it...its Division III football....travel budgets aren't there.  Who could have predicted Hanover's fall from grace?  I'm sure its difficult for the Presidents to schedule a full 10 game season. 

You guys are right though, they'll earn their stripes in the playoffs. 


By the way, I DO like what is going on at Thomas More.  Coach Hilvert has the kids playing hard.  They've been hit by injuries, no excuse though.  I think this team will be a worth opponent for teams in the 2nd half of the season.  The Saints are two years away from being right there with W&J and Thiel (contending for the conference title and playoff berth).  They're building the new stadium....the sight of the bulldozers on campus is great.  Its really openned up the campus....if some of you remember the old stadium...the trees behind the press box are gone....all the way to the dorms. 

bigern,

if Notre Dame does not win a game before Nov 3rd....I'll be at the W&J/Thomas More game...keep that in mind..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 02, 2007, 11:12:06 AM
Big Ern i will not be able to make it on Saturday. I have a high school game Saturday night in E town at the stadium. I however will be in attendance the following week in New Wilmington we will have to meet up then. I plan on attending one home game as well and any playoff games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 02, 2007, 01:09:16 PM
Who are your mid-season players of the year and coach?

Offensive: W&J QB Swallows...starting to think he is making me eat my words about Dawson being better

Defensive: Waynesburg DL: Mike Czerwien he doesn't just rush the passer for sacks he also plays solid defense.

Coach: Waynesburg's Rick Shepas has the Yellow Jackets undefeted at 5-0


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 02, 2007, 03:05:17 PM
Hello All...Keeping quiet after BC's terrible play at Thiel. Didn't expect to upset them but the Bison didn't show up at all. We made the offensive and defensive players of the week look spectacular. 425 rushing yards for Thiel.

Bison QB 3-18-3 for 26 yds. One receiver injured but that's embarrassing and backup never touched the field. It seems like we make some progress and then slide right back down to the basement.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2007, 04:19:36 PM
Jesus....no offense...but that IS bad.  425 yards on the ground?

Things will turn around from that....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2007, 08:59:44 AM
South Willy,

They did not look very good on Saturday but they did face two good RB's. Minton holds numerous rushing records at Thiel and is a 4 yr starter while Hess is a great back that would be the starter if it weren't for Minton. The bad thing for you guys is that you will see Hess for another year or two. Thiel's offensive line also got some continuity or however you spell it and the young guys are starting to gel. 

Don't get frustrated. The Bison are definatly making strides with their football program. The PAC is getting better and more competitive and with the addition of SVC and Geneva they get the automatic qualifier which makes the teams in the PAC more appealing to high school athletes. They remind me of Thiel when Leip came in. It was a struggle early but the football program had the full support of the college and the coaches were making the kids buy into what they are trying to do. In a few short years the Tomcats were PAC champions and playoff bound.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 03, 2007, 10:24:33 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 02, 2007, 01:09:16 PM
Who are your mid-season players of the year and coach?

Offensive: W&J QB Swallows...starting to think he is making me eat my words about Dawson being better

Defensive: Waynesburg DL: Mike Czerwien he doesn't just rush the passer for sacks he also plays solid defense.

Coach: Waynesburg's Rick Shepas has the Yellow Jackets undefeted at 5-0




I had a great QB when I was there in Edwards, but I would definitely like to play with Bob Swallow while he is in his prime.  His season so far is obviously off the charts, so he he def MVP so far.  Runner up has to be Bob Heller.  He has quite a few carries, but you can't argue with 227 yards/game, and more importantly a 5-0 record. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 03, 2007, 10:28:07 AM
oops: 4-0
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 03, 2007, 10:47:49 AM
PItt,

The new coaching staff at BC is determined to make the Bison competitive in the PAC and the administration is 100% behind them. Their recruiting classes have been better but since many of the starters are first or second year guys, the consistency just isn't there. Our facilituies need to improve which would make recruiting more positive.
In a loss to Geneva they played hard and were in the game in the 4th qtr but the Bison just folded at Thiel. Hopefully the Bison will show up to play at GC this weekend as injured players are back.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2007, 11:39:01 AM
EC,

Edwards was a good qb at W&J but he did not perform well in the big games. I think he is behind Swallow and Dawson for sure. I will get to see Swallow play for the first time this weekend vs a formidable foe. I saw him last year and he was good but I would not put him ahead of Dawson dispite the off the chart numbers. I know Bigern is high on him so I am looking forward to see him in action. You are 100% right about Heller. If not for Swallow he would be the POY thus far. It also helps that Swallow has some good players around them including Matthews and McCafferty.


South Willy,

Sounds exactly what went on at Thiel in the early 2000's. Alot of young starters who will gain experience that will pay off when they are juniors and seniors. Part of rebuilding a program is learning how to win. Thiel had trouble early on as well but if they stick with their plan they will be fine.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 03, 2007, 02:02:57 PM
Pitt,

I agree that Edwards is behind Dawson and Swallow, I think he had a combined 10 ints. in the 2 loses in 2005 (Thiel and Bridgewater-playoffs).  That obviously backs up your big game arguement no doubt.  Swallow already has me convinced he is better than Dawson, because I have seen them both play.  I think it will take a few big games this year and next in order to make people see that.  If you remember back in 2000 I believe, he threw 6 ints in playoff against Bridgewater, and never came close to the Texas teams.  Enjoy watching Bob, he will be talked about for a long time. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 03, 2007, 02:16:35 PM
EC Warrior,

I think you are going to be right about Swallow. I just need to see him first hand a year later. QB's grow alot between years and once I see him I think I will probably think he is better then Dawson. Just want to see it before I say it thats all. If this is going to be a special season for the Presidents it will rest with Swallow for sure.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 04, 2007, 09:22:47 AM
Predictions:

Saint Vincent at Waynesburg* - 1:30 p.m.

SVC will get a taste of the trains running by the sidelines and blowing their horns at one of the biggest homefield advantages in the PAC. Hopefully their defense can stop the Heller Train on the football field. I think not. Another learning experience for SVC as Heller as 257 on the ground with 4 scores in a runaway.

Waynesburg 42 SVC 7


Bethany at Grove City* - 2 p.m.

Bethany is back on the road trying to rebound from Thiel rolling up 400+ rushing yards against a gritty and frustrated GCC team. GCC played Westminster tough but came away with the loss. GCC is at home where they seem to play better and injuries are the big question at Bethany. I think the Bison will struggle once again on the road stopping the run. GCC finally wins a close one behind DiDonato's performance in the air and on the ground.

GCC 28 Bethany 21


Westminster at Thomas More*^ - 2:30 p.m.

Westminster is 3-1 so far this year lead mostly by thier defense. Thomas More last lost week to Waynesburg and only managed 14 pts in thier last two games. Yards will be hard to come by this week as they face the top defense in ypg in the PAC. TMC is young and getting better but the Titans defense will be the difference. Collier will have trouble getting on track while Franz will do enough to win.

Westminster 24 TMC 7

Salisbury at Geneva – 6 p.m

Geneva is playing well. They beat La Salle last week handedly and will look to keep winning this week at they play host to Salisbury. Bondi is a duel threat running and throwing the ball and will cause problems for the Salisbury defense. The defense is stingy only giving up 28 pts to a high powered W&J team in week 2 and averaging only 13pts against through their first 5 games. Look for a simliar result this week.

Geneva 28 Salisbury 13



PAC Game of the Week:

Thiel at Washington & Jefferson* - 2 p.m.

Both teams are coming off record breaking performances from last week. Thiel rolled up 400+ rushing yards in a win vs Bethany while W&J put up nearly 900 yards of total offense setting two DIII records. Minton and the Thiel offensive line will need to have a good game on the ground and allow the Tomcats to control the ball and keep the high powered President offense off the field if they want to keep this game close and have a chance to win the game. Swallow and his crew will look to keep their well oiled maching against a hot and cold defense. W&J is balanced and good at running and throwing the ball which could be difficult for the Tomcats to defend. If the Darkside can take away the run game and make them one dimensional they can be successful. It will be no easy task.

Thiel 21 W&J 20

Good Luck to all teams this week!

GO TOMCATS!!!

I will be watching in Washington this week don't let me down!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 04, 2007, 07:16:16 PM
PREDICTION TIME OF THE WEEK

Saint Vincent at Waynesburg*
Waynesburg train continues to roll with 350 and 5 td's from Heller. Saint Vincent days are ahead of them.

Waynesburg 49 SVC 0

Bethany at Grove City*

Bethany goes into GCC and continues to struggle. GCC piles up 400 yards of total offense and cruises. Didinato runs for 80 and throws for 175 with 4 total TD's.

GCC 28 Bethany 10


Westminster at Thomas More*

Westminster is playing tough D and winning some games.  In this one i look for them to take a step back and the young team from Kentucky to take a step up. Young QB throws for two and Collier runs for 120.

Westminster 14 TMC 24

Salisbury at Geneva – 6 p.m

Geneva is playing well and gave W&J all it could handle. This week i look for them to get pounded. Salisbury is a very talented team that submitted W&J last year. Geneva is no match for their option game. Salisbury runs for 350 plus. Pitt i cant beleive you picked Geneva that big but i guess that is the fun of it.

Salisbury 42 Geneva 10



PAC Game of the Week:

Thiel at Washington & Jefferson*

The yearly battle is upon us. The unstoppable juggernaut against the immovable object. I look for the juggernaut to throw over the immovable object to victory. Mad Mike Sirrani will have a great gameplan and Swallow does not make mistakes. He is the difference with a couple of screen passes to Mathews for six to stop that aggresive pass rush. I look for Minton and Hess to be held in check as this is one of the best and most athletic defences the prez have had in a while. Wish i could be there as the atmosphere in these games is second to none.


Thiel 10 W&J 27

Good luck to all

Go W&J

Congrats to all
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 05, 2007, 09:59:03 AM
Wes,

Glad to see someone else do some predictions on the board!

I know the Geneva game is a strecth but thats why they play the game. They could lose big but I took the home team playing at night who is playing pretty good football who played one of the best teams in D3 tough (W&J).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2007, 01:05:01 PM
Westminster at Thomas More...


Westminster has only given up 41 first downs in the 3 PAC games thus far.  Though, with the exception of Geneva....they haven't really played an above average team.  They did gut out a road win against a tough Allegheny squad though.  Looks like the strength of the WC defense is stopping the run.  I think TMC will be OK, the offense has come under fire the past two weeks...though they should be coming into their own during this stretch of games.  Bottom line, TMC needs to run the ball well to set up the pass...and continue to take the shots deep in the secondary.  Offensively, WC appears to be led by their QB.  Freshman LB Matt Clark (10.8 tackles per game) and the defense will need to step up and stop the run so the secondary (led by converted LB West) can focus on playing the pass.

I think this game will be close, but Thomas More is hungry.  We'll see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 05, 2007, 01:12:18 PM
Saintsfan,

The homefield advantage will definatly help. Being hungry also helps. I think it will be a good game. I just like WC's defense against the young qb. Collier is tough but they will try to shut him down early and force the freshman to beat them. If TMC can run the ball then they will be in the ballgame and possible win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 05, 2007, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on October 04, 2007, 07:16:16 PM
.. Wish i could be there as the atmosphere in these games is second to none.


Tune in on the wireless.  I'll do my best to capture the atmosphere.

By the way, the 1987 squad is being celebrated during the festivities...what a year!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2007, 03:05:14 PM
Pitt,

You're right...if that scenario prevails....the Saints could be in trouble.  I just happen to think the staff is going to put the Saints in position to be successful this week on offense....including finding creative ways to get Collier the ball...kind of like Waynesburg did for Heller. 


BTW, whats the over/under on games Heller misses due to being nicked up?  He's a tremendous presence for the Waynesburg club....but appears their fortune rides with him.  He's not imposing...but is a decisive "cutter" and makes things happen.  Very impressed.  I believe its him and then Collier in the running for top PAC RB.

Wes,

Though I think Swallow is the real deal....I don't think the Presidents have been tested on offense yet this year....outside of the MUC scrimmage, but that doesn't count.  I think it will be fun to see him play in the playoffs this year.  I think for this reason, you should say that he "hasn't made mistakes" but not necessarily "doesn't make mistakes"...

I'm ready to see this QB in person...

+K for everyone on the page...because I'm feeling generous
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 05, 2007, 04:18:58 PM
SaintsFan,

Good point that Swallow hasn't made any mistakes because they haven't been tested.  However he proved last year through 9 regular season games and 2 playoff games that he does not buckle under pressure.  He definitely has played in some big games in his career (2 playoff games, and several close PAC games last year) and as a first year starter he came out looking pretty good.  It will be interesting to see how he does in big games this year considering Mendel is gone and the offense rests more on his shoulders.  He has been cool under fire so far in his career, its about time he takes it to the next step. 


Bob,
Looking forward to hearing some good interviews during pregame.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 05, 2007, 05:02:10 PM
EC,

I wasn't in the studio yesterday, so I'm not sure who Mark has in the can.

The 1987 team is being honored so I'm sure I'll be telling some stories of that whacko season...

Maybe a few halftime guests will come by...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 05, 2007, 05:33:57 PM
I am excited for this week of football. I am most excited about the President and Tomcat game. I think it will be a very exciting game with W&J showing the inexperience of Thiel and holding them to 110 yards rushing while forcing them to throw the ball. BOBBY will SWALLOW up the secondary of the Thiel Tomcats throwing for 286 yards and 3 TD's. He might throw his first interception off of a tip, but it will be tooo little to late.
W&J 38 THIEL 10

The Bears of St. V will fight against the yellow jackets but it will be like a seal fighting a killer whale. Shep will run the score up in this one to move up in rankings.
WC 77 SV 7

Grove City loses some swagger and gives Bethany a chance to bounce back as BC will upset the Wolverines. Miss extra point will play a factor
GCC 16 BC 17[/b

Oh when the saints come marching in, as the steam role the Titans in a battle of the front 7. I like the Saints to march up and down the field against a slow Titan defense.
TMC 35 WMC 14

This will be the quickest game played on Saturday with both teams playing a tough defensive game but in the end the better team will shine off of turnovers. The Salisbury will burn Geneva with their speed.
SC 42 GC 7


Good Luck to all the teams this weekend......KEEP ON ROLLIN DUB JAY
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2007, 06:37:07 PM
Nice win Saints!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 07, 2007, 10:42:07 AM
SaintsFAN...

Nice win for TMC, congratulations. My Bison lead all the stats but went 1 for 7 in the red zone and commited three turnovers. Tough loss but played much better game. Now back to BC for 4 staright home games.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 08, 2007, 09:49:21 AM
Good tough win for the Prez. Those games will help for the playoffs. At the same time they need to play a lot better as you cannot turn the ball over and not score in the red zone. W&J could have easily won 42-12 if they capatilized in the red zone. Thiel played tough as they always do but the lack of a QB really hurt. Saints fan you made me a beleiver and your team made my pick look good with a blow out of the titans nice win. More picks to come later in the week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 08, 2007, 12:59:25 PM
I hate to be the wet blanket, and any win is a 'good win' in my opinion.  However, I wasn't real impressed with the showing W&J gave Saturday.  Give credit to the Tomcats to an extent, but if W&J wants to have a deep playoff run, they need to put teams like Thiel away by halftime.

The good news is that it's only early October, and you want to be playing better toward the end of the month.  Also, I think it's a good learning tool to get into a bit of a tough game and hopefully use it to know you are going to get teams' best shot from here on out. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 08, 2007, 02:44:16 PM
Here's the thing most people have no idea of:

How much, and for how long, one play can impact a game.

Thiel drives to start game.  Defense gets stop, forces FG.  Getting set to huddle to make first adjustments when freshman fumbles kickoff.

Defense right back out, sans tweaks, and finds way to get another stop for FG.

That kept the defense on the field for 13:28 straight to start the game.  HUGE impact on the whole day.


Presidents had several issues Saturday:

Swallow was not at his best, by any means.
Communication issues from sideline to offense, repeatedly.
One second half drive got to 1st & 10 at TC 35--nothing.
Another post-recess drive got toe 1st & 10 at TC 33--nothing.

That's not going to work, long term.

All in all, the Presidents won a game they had to win on a day when they weren't at their best.  That's what good teams do.

Great teams do that, and figure out how to NOT be not at their best.  That's what the Red & Black are working on today.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 08, 2007, 08:36:18 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 08, 2007, 02:44:16 PM
Here's the thing most people have no idea of:

How much, and for how long, one play can impact a game.


Actually, I think most people that follow football know this.

Hey, I'm glad they won.  I'm one of maybe ten people that get Versus that I know, and watched Stanford shock USC Saturday night.  College football is such a wonderful game, and anything can happen. 

I just thought that like USC, W&J should have put away a team they are more talented than.

I also understand that it could have been a lot worse, and glad they have time to work on things, get better, and become a great team come playoff time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2007, 08:44:32 AM
Actually, burgh...

As I read different posters, more and more I get convinced that many people do not understand my original line, and much more about the game... Sometimes, what I read here is almost staggering...

I get Versus--had no idea that there was anything on there Saturday night that I could have been watching.  I just know I have it 'cause that's where the hockey playoffs were last spring...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 09, 2007, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 08, 2007, 12:59:25 PM
I hate to be the wet blanket, and any win is a 'good win' in my opinion.  However, I wasn't real impressed with the showing W&J gave Saturday.  Give credit to the Tomcats to an extent, but if W&J wants to have a deep playoff run, they need to put teams like Thiel away by halftime.

The good news is that it's only early October, and you want to be playing better toward the end of the month.  Also, I think it's a good learning tool to get into a bit of a tough game and hopefully use it to know you are going to get teams' best shot from here on out. 



W&J knows they are going to get everyone's best every week.  Obviously, Thiel is not an elite team in D3, but they are still a good football team, and this was their game of the year.  I am sure the Prez are not happy with the way they played, but they are happy with the W.  When the playoffs roll around, they won't be worrying about the Thiel score.  But I agree as long as they play better than they did Saturday they will feel a lot better about themselves, and they need to play better like you said.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 09, 2007, 06:10:59 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2007, 08:44:32 AM
Actually, burgh...

As I read different posters, more and more I get convinced that many people do not understand my original line, and much more about the game... Sometimes, what I read here is almost staggering...

I get Versus--had no idea that there was anything on there Saturday night that I could have been watching.  I just know I have it 'cause that's where the hockey playoffs were last spring...



What is staggering to you Bob?  For example? 

As for Versus, they started showing Mountain West and Pac-10 games I believe just this year.  The sad thing after the USC/Stanford game is that there was no 'post game' wrap up, and went almost directly after the game to some rodeo competition.

Then again, with their pre/post game hockey analysis, maybe that's not such a bad thing. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 10, 2007, 09:01:35 AM
I must say what an exciting game this weekend. Thiel college showed some great abilities in running the ball, and could have been a bad situation for president nation if one of their first two possessions was a TD. As for W&J there defense showed a great bend don't break type of attitude. They went after the Thiels young offensive line with different line stunts. The special teams for W&J looked a lot better this week, as the kickoff cover team stayed in their lanes and only gave up one run past the forty. With Thiels young team they can be a force to be wrecking with in years to come. I think they will lose one more game and win out. Now back to W&J, this was a tale of two halves for the presidents. The first half the boys on Offense seemed run everything very smoothed really only having one quarter in the first half since Thiel kept the presidents off the field. In the second half had a tough time finding their rhythm. I would have liked to see W&J stretch the defense a little bit more down the field. I was surprised to not see that many passes down the field of 25 yards or more. I think that this will change this week verses Westminster.

I think that Waynesburg could give W&J a tough time in a couple of weeks, now i do not want to get too far ahead, because if anyone watched college football this weekend then you know that any team can lose on any Saturday. For instance, look at USC and UCLA losing to Notre Dame. I am not comparing W&J to USC by any means, but W&J has a couple of road games in a row that could test them. Its tough traveling in a bus for four straight weeks. The road trip itself will be beneficial for the team to learn how to win on the road.

How about a couple of the top ten teams losing this week in DIII. Does anyone disagree with the rankings this week? The Presidents are a good team and i think they belong in their spot.  What's the game of the week this week?

Congrats to the Presidents this past weekend
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 10, 2007, 09:12:10 AM
big,

Didn't take the "down the field" shots because that's what Thiel was set on preventing.  Thought the offense took advantage of the Thiel plan by throwing underneath and the swings to Ravida.  Thiel was not capable of stopping everything.  R&B did a nice job of using what the Tomcats didn't stop.

I'm still troubled by how much trouble "O" had, particularly second half, getting plays from Coach Mike to the line of scrimmage.  This unit has been together far too long and we're way too deep in the season for that to be happening that much.

That brings me back to my original observation of the "O":  Bobby Swallow was clearly not at his best.  Was he sick Saturday?  That would explain a lot of things...

Don't know, just wondering aloud.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 10, 2007, 11:05:55 AM
It was a great weekend for football. I attended the Thiel @ W&J game and I agree with alot of what everyone is saying. This was Thiel's game of the year. They needed this win if they wanted to reach their goals this year. The Tomcats played tough as they always do. I agree with Bigern that if they managed to put the ball in the endzone on one of the first two drives that the game could have been a little different. W&J did not impress me as much as I thought they would. One thing they did was go right down the field and score after a Thiel missed a 2pt conversion. They put Thiel down two scores and the way W&J's defense was playing it was going to be tough to comeback. W&J has to play better if they want to go deep into the playoffs and win the PAC. Thiel is going to be fine. They have a great staff and keep getting some good players that are just young right now. I was surprised that Thiel did not sack Swallow. Mathews was pretty impressive I thought. McCafferty was the player of the game in my opinion as he just ran away from the defenders on his first TD and was solid the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 10, 2007, 03:48:08 PM
It usually is hard for W&J to impress against Thiel as they play the best game of the year against the Prez and W&J seems to be in a funk everytime they play Thiel. This game will never look good for them as they will see Thiel's 2-4 record and with W&J winning a semi close one will not help come seeding time. They bottom line need to pound people like Mount does against Ohio Northern. Even if a team is playing up the talent @ W&J far exceeds most teams they play. I look for them to shred everyone they play the rest of the year.  Pitt  Mcafferty is a stud he needs the ball a lot more he was the 4th WR for Mount Union as a freshman which means he saw the field in their spread sets and left as he did not enjoy his time there. I look for W&J to pound the Titans this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 10, 2007, 04:46:45 PM
Pitt,
It was a good time this weekend. I enjoyed sharing a few drinks with ya this weekend. As for T-MAC he is a good receiver, i think that he has some weapons around him that make him more effective. As for the vertical attack, i still think that there were a few opportunities where they could have went there, but they did take advantage up the underneath stuff BOB. I was shocked that's all. I am use to seeing at least a couple big shots down field.

Wes,
you missed a good time on Saturday bud. When you coming to a game. Get at me because i lost your cell with my phone. The o-line i thought did pretty well. W&J only has on full time starter that's a senior and another that rotates until a clear winner for the job is announced. This line has a lot of depth. They will be tough for the rest of the year and going into next.


PITT,

Who stuck out on the defensive ball for both sides you think? The safety looked tough for Thiel. He was not afraid to come up to stick.

Saint,

With Notre Dame winning does this mean your out for the W&J game?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 11, 2007, 08:21:59 AM
I'm not 100% yet on that, bigern.  I want to be there.  I'm also supposed to be headed to Tennesee for the South Carolina game on the 20th...  I don't think i'll be able to do both that and ND/Navy though...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 11, 2007, 09:13:29 AM
Bigern,

It was a good time...thanks for the hospitality.

Thiel normally has a good defense and it starts with their defensive line. I think that Lorber and Hughes are good players. The LB's and DB's will always stick you. I think Thiel's main focus was to not give up the big play and thats why Swallow did not try and take too many shots down the field. I hope that Thiel will take something from this loss. They where very much in the ball game. They played one of the better teams in D3 football tough. Maybe W&J did not play thier best but I don't think it was because they had an off day. I think that Thiel did a nice job of doing what they needed to do to try and win the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2007, 09:17:49 AM
PittTBCW,

Please don't take my "not at his best" as a detraction from what Thiel was able to do.  The Tomcats played extremely well and all day long took away the big play ('cept for McCafferty's individual effort).

But Swallow was NOT right Saturday.  He just wasn't.  And isn't that something that a kid making his 17th collegiate start can go 18-30, 230 yards and 3 td's and not be right????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 11, 2007, 10:26:15 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2007, 09:17:49 AM
PittTBCW,

Please don't take my "not at his best" as a detraction from what Thiel was able to do.  The Tomcats played extremely well and all day long took away the big play ('cept for McCafferty's individual effort).

But Swallow was NOT right Saturday.  He just wasn't.  And isn't that something that a kid making his 17th collegiate start can go 18-30, 230 yards and 3 td's and not be right????


I agree Bob. I don't think that Swallow played a great game. I think he played a good game but did miss some passes. I think he is one of the top qb's in d3football. I am starting to think he is better then Dawson.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 11, 2007, 01:06:53 PM
Bob you make a great point about the numbers.  But do you think that his "struggles" on Saturday had more to do with Thiel, or with himself?  It sounds to me like you think the latter. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2007, 01:34:52 PM
It was him.

Wide opens were off the mark.

Sidelines were high.

Slants were behind.

Communications were off.

And other than 1 "hurry", it wasn't Thiel.  He was off.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2007, 06:34:25 AM
Bob and others,

If Swallow was "off" in that game and still had those numbers...you must have great talent surrounding him and I hope he's WAY, WAY off on November 3rd....maybe even having to throw left-handed...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 12, 2007, 08:59:03 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2007, 06:34:25 AM
Bob and others,

If Swallow was "off" in that game and still had those numbers...you must have great talent surrounding him and I hope he's WAY, WAY off on November 3rd....maybe even having to throw left-handed...



Well Saint lucky for you we will have him throw left, since he is left handed. HAHA, but i think it will be a good game
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 12, 2007, 09:44:50 AM
Congrats to Mike Stimac of the Thiel Tomcats for being announced as 2007 Draddy Trophy Semifinalist!

Read about it here its a great honor:

http://www.thiel.edu/athletics/RELEASE%20TEMPLATE/2007-football/10-11-07.html


Prediction Time:

Saturday, October 13th

Grove City at Thiel* - 1 p.m.
Thiel and GCC battle for the Mercer Cup. Thiel has won it the last 3 years and I believe all but one year since Coach Leip took over the Thiel program in 2001. I see the Tomcats bouncing back after a hard fought battle with W&J led by their run game. Minton, Hess, and the offensive line will keep the Tomcat running game going. Its the last home game for the seniors so I know they will be playing with alot of emotion. I look for Lorber, Hughes, and Stimac to have big days for the Darkside as they have been very good at shutting down the Wolverines. GCC will look to keep going from last week but I think they will see a better team in Greenville. They will come ready to play but will not have enough.

Thiel 31 GCC 14


Thomas More at Saint Vincent* - 1:30 p.m.

Thomas More is off a big win against Westmini and I look for the Saints to stay hot. SVC was down early to Waynesburg but battled back to play the Yellow Jackets tough. They keep getting better and have a chance to get their first PAC win at home if they can force some turnovers and get the ball in the endzone. At the end of the day I like Collier to have a good game and get the road victory.

Saints 27 SVC 7

Wash. & Jeff. at Westminster* – 1:30 p.m.

The Presidents took care of buisness last week even though there offense was held in check. The W&J defense was tough and led them to victory. Westminster is back at home after a rough road trip to TMC. I think the Presidents will get back on track this week. Westminster's defense is good but the Presidents are better. Matthews and McCafferty will have a couple TD's as Swallow returns to form.

W&J 42 Westminster 7

Waynesburg at Bethany* - 2 p.m.

Bethany would like to forget about their last two weeks. They had alot of promise to begin the season but things are sputtering. It does not get any easier when the Heller Train pays a stop to West Virginia. The Bison have trouble defending the run and Waynesburg is very good at running the ball. This equals along day for the Bison. If they can stop the run they have a chance. I like Heller.

Waynesburg 34 Bethany 13


Geneva is off and enjoying Blue Moon's in Beaver.

Good Luck to all the Teams this week!

GO TOMCATS!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 12, 2007, 01:48:28 PM
Predictions

Grove City at Thiel*

Mercer cup battle. Has not been much of a battle lately as Thiel has smacked the cup right from GCC hands. More of the same as the cup stays in Greenville. Minton and Hess get rolling with over 100 for both.

Thiel 21 GCC 3

Thomas More at Saint Vincent*

TMC picked up a good victory for a young team last week. Look for them to continue to get better and stomp SVC. Collier runs for 165 and 3 Td's.

Saints 38 SVC 6

Wash. & Jeff. at Westminster*

Wes and Big Ern will be in attendence for what should be a blowout. Westminnie has had no answer for W&J recently and i look for more of the same. Swallow rebounds and throws for 4 TD's and Mathews runs for 2 TD. Todd Young chest bumps will be many with his lineman after Td's. This one will be over sometime in the 3rd quarter.

W&J 47 Westminster 14

Waynesburg at Bethany*

Bethany has no run defense and not much offense lately. This spells doom for the bison. Heller runs wild (220 3 TD)and the D clamps down. Looking foward to the late year showdown in the burg with W&J with the automatic qualifier possibly in the balance.

Waynesburg 42 Bethany 7

Good Luck to all

Big Ern see you saturday

Go Prez
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 12, 2007, 04:29:21 PM
Well its already Friday and time for some predictions.

I have to start off with the Presidents, i do not see a Stanford type of upset, but i do see a hard fought game. It will be muddy and cold. The presidents will win a close game but Westminster will be stingy on defense.
Matthews will have 180 yards of total offense and i look for Kurt Jones Who Kurt Jones to rack up over a 100 yards on the ground. Keenan will be the defensive player for the Presidents, also look for Jeff Ernst and Jacob Bloomhoff to cause havoc in the backfield for the Titans
W&J 24-WEST 14


Thiel roles into this weeks game with some swagger, i look for them to get the running game going as Minton will rush for 150 yards and 2 TD's. Thiel wins an easy one. Grove city will score on a bad snap in thiels end zone.
TC 38- GCC 2

Waynesburg is searching for the perfect season and will continue that voyage as they will stay on track and feed the freshman sensation to another 200 + game on the ground.
WC 42 BC 21


I believe Saintsfan will enjoy a win from not only from TMC, but also the upset of the week of Notre Dame, but back to DIII. TMC will keep the bearcats winless, but do not think for a second that ST. V will back down.
TMC 28 ST. V 17
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 12, 2007, 05:23:00 PM
Big Ern,

Did you just pick W&J to win 24-14 or was that a typo?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 14, 2007, 09:36:16 PM
Big Ern was punked out by Mad Mike Sirianni on sat as the prez ramped up the passing game and let Swallow go to work. The head ball coach was drawing up passing plays in the dirt as everything was working. As i have said before Mcafferty is a stud and they got him the ball. One thing that has me worried is the D looked bad and there was some sloppiness on special teams. Westminster is terrible and they had some spurts where they moved the ball. After watching Swallow play a good many times i agree that he is the best QB to ever play at W&J. He is cool and poised in the pocket and throws a nice ball. Mathews was hurt and carted off the field in the third but the collection of young backs on hand put on a show in the second half.

Pitt i hope i am wrong but it seems like Thiel is heading to Mediocrity or worse with their second straight disappointing season. I dont think Leip had 5-5 or 4-6 seasons in mind after two consecutive winning seasons and a playoff birth. Curious on your thoughts.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 15, 2007, 09:13:28 AM
Wes,

I know that Leip did not have this in mind. They have taken many steps forward since his stint began in 2001. I don't think they will return to the "Old Thiel" as they have alot of good young players who are playing now. They also went through alot of coaching changes this year. It will take this year for them to get back on track. Hopefully, they can regroup and finish the season strong so they can carry some momentum into next year.

I do agree that Swallon is the best qb ahead of Dawson at W&J. The question might be where does McCafferty and Matthews rank? What is the status on Matthews?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OLine Coach on October 16, 2007, 07:11:24 AM
What's up gentlemen?  Long time reader...first time poster.  I thought the 'burg U could use a little representation in here.  Not that I have any inside info to offer,  but I will try to give my 2 cents when appropriate.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2007, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: OLine Coach on October 16, 2007, 07:11:24 AM
What's up gentlemen?  Long time reader...first time poster.  I thought the 'burg U could use a little representation in here.  Not that I have any inside info to offer,  but I will try to give my 2 cents when appropriate.
Welcome OLine Coach.  We need someone to slow down W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 16, 2007, 10:05:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2007, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: OLine Coach on October 16, 2007, 07:11:24 AM
What's up gentlemen?  Long time reader...first time poster.  I thought the 'burg U could use a little representation in here.  Not that I have any inside info to offer,  but I will try to give my 2 cents when appropriate.
Welcome OLine Coach.  We need someone to slow down W&J.

Don't worry, BigErn pretty much brings us down on all levels.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2007, 10:07:48 AM
Quote from: OLine Coach on October 16, 2007, 07:11:24 AM
What's up gentlemen?  Long time reader...first time poster.  I thought the 'burg U could use a little representation in here.  Not that I have any inside info to offer,  but I will try to give my 2 cents when appropriate.

Welcome aboard. Spread the word. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OLine Coach on October 16, 2007, 10:52:29 AM
Thanks for the welcome.  Things seem a little more at ease in here as of late.  I remember a few years back when some guys from The J were on here (I think they were actual players) talking all kinds of smack.  It was quite amusing.   Anyways...

I'm actually going down to Waynesburg this weekend for the Thiel game.  Looking forward to seeing Heller run the ball.  What happened to Thiel this year?  Can they cause problems for the Jackets?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 16, 2007, 10:57:20 AM
With everybody but WU & W&J having two losses already, a loss to Thiel doesn't really hurt Waynesburg.  As long as that's the only loss for the Jackets.

If they beat W&J on the 27th, and win the rest, they'd win the TB (head-to-head) and take the AQ.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2007, 11:29:11 AM
oline coach,

Welcome. . . and I remember what you are talking about (players on here). . .if I recall there was also a DB's coach on here.

Not that he was the only coach to have posted on here. . .and I'm not talking about another W&J coach.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 16, 2007, 11:46:45 AM
Pitt i dont think thiel will ever go back to the basement as Leip is to good of a coach for that. I dont beleive that you can put Mcafferty and Mathews in the top five recievers/Rb's ever @ W&J but they are very good none the less.

Oline welcome aboard its amazing when a team goes 6-0 to start a season the fans come out. I bet no one is calling for Shepas' head now after the Hot start. Should be a big showdown in the burg in two weeks.

Saints seems like your team is pulling Freshman Qb's off the bench every week who do you think is the best of the two and did the other get hurt.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2007, 11:55:10 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2007, 11:29:11 AM
oline coach,

Welcome. . . and I remember what you are talking about (players on here). . .if I recall there was also a DB's coach on here.

Not that he was the only coach to have posted on here. . .and I'm not talking about another W&J coach.

I remember talking to Mike Sirianni back when he was offensive coordinator and I think he took a pretty dim view of coaches posting, though since he wasn't head coach he didn't have any control over it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2007, 12:08:49 PM
Pat,

You're right...though I don't know if that DB coach was coaching after he took the head position at W&J.

I don't know why any coach would like anyone associated with the day to day operations of the program to be on here...

Its for us 'fans'
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2007, 12:24:59 PM
Wes,

I know it seems that way but they really have two good freshman QB's in Zerhusen and Gauger.  Both are above average runners for the Saints. .

Zerhusen has good size and throws the ball well. . . he played behind the coach's son at McNick HS here in Cincinnati (produced a few Division 1 QB's), so he only got to start his senior season.  He's come on in the past few weeks and is showing signs of "getting it".

Gauger, who started the season as starter after Stellman went down in Pre-season practice, is a little bit taller and lanky kid.  I'm not sure about his HS exploits just outside of Indianapolis at Avon HS.  He's capable of leading the team also.

Both QB are benefitting from having Coach Case as their QB's coach.  JP, as we call him, knows his stuff (so to speak).  He coached the WR's during the 1998 season and lent a hand to us QBs.  He communicates well with the guys and they've responded, it seems. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OLine Coach on October 16, 2007, 01:34:51 PM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on October 16, 2007, 11:46:45 AM

Oline welcome aboard its amazing when a team goes 6-0 to start a season the fans come out. I bet no one is calling for Shepas' head now after the Hot start. Should be a big showdown in the burg in two weeks.   I would love to go to the WU v. WJ game but prior committments have me tied up that day.





Wes - you called me out...but you are right.  I will admit though my interest increases as the wins increase.  I'll also admit that I was a little disappointed when Hand left and went to Westminnie.  I'd heard good things about Shep, but the proof is in the wins.  Hopefully he can keep it going now that he has something started. 

SaintsFan - Didn't know there were coaches on here.  Who is that dumb to jump in here as a coach of one of the teams being discussed???  What is there to gain?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 16, 2007, 02:22:34 PM
Oline,

Welcome! When the team wins it does create action. Take Thiel two years ago when they were rolling. Alot of people came out. I think the board is down since the last few years. Hopefully the board can become more active!

Thiel seems to be hot or cold. They could play well against Waynesburg as they are typically good against the run. Waynesburg is a very hard place to play. They will have the homefield advantage for sure. I think if Thiel can limit the turnovers and stop the run they have a shot. I think Heller will be a handful but I have faith in the Tomcats.

Wes,

You are correct. Leip is a great coach and even a better person. He surrounds himself with quality coaches and recruits not only talent but character. I think he has a good equation going on up in Greenville that will keep the Tomcats competitive for years. The college administration also backs Coach Leip and the football program which makes like easier.

Matthews and McCafferty are great WR's I have not seen all of the WR's at W&J thats why I was seeking a W&J perspective. Obviously Krepps and Fry were pretty good as well.

Its funny how when a team has a bad year that they call for the Coach. Most teams (except W&J) will have ups and downs. Its not always the coach sometimes injuries or just graduation and lack of experience. Shepas is a good fit down there.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OLine Coach on October 17, 2007, 07:22:33 AM
Pitt -
What kind of  offfense is TC running?  They still running the option?? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 17, 2007, 11:07:36 AM
Quote from: OLine Coach on October 17, 2007, 07:22:33 AM
Pitt -
What kind of  offfense is TC running?  They still running the option?? 

I only saw them play vs W&J. No longer the option. They mix it up between shotgun and I formation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: skunks_sidekick on October 17, 2007, 11:35:12 AM
Hello All You PAC ers..

As a MUC fan it's always great to see "one of our own" doing so well.  Kudos to Sirianni and his guys playing at a high level to this point of the season. 

As someone who observed Shepas while he coached at Massillon, I can tell you he certainly wore out his welcome with just about everyone here in Stark County, OH.  It seems he is a good X's and O's guy, and does well with game day/week motivation, but his ethics, integrity, and honesty would be something I would question, and not be totally comfortable with. 

Having said that, I am not a Waynesburg player, student, alum, or fan....so I guess you can take that with a grain of salt!   ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OLine Coach on October 17, 2007, 01:49:24 PM
A guy I coach with knows Shep from his days as head coach at Seneca Valley.  He had nothing but good things to say about him when he was hired.  I introduced myself to Shepas when he came to one of our playoff games.  He didn't exactly seem personable - but then again he gets paid to win games not be nice to alumni that played for Waynesburg...or maybe that is part of his job description???

Anyways - good to hear that the Tomcats mix it up a little bit.  I'm looking forward to seeing some good balanced offensive attacks on Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 17, 2007, 02:08:19 PM
You'd think he embrace some of the alumni though. . .

I just know that when we've hired coaches, they've wanted to meet and greet alumni. . .especially Hilvert.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 17, 2007, 02:09:09 PM
Pat how come I didn't get a nice welcome like OLcoach did?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2007, 02:16:08 PM
I didn't know you were a first-time poster when you first posted.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 19, 2007, 08:27:51 AM
Prediction Time:

Saturday, October 20

Saint Vincent at Case Western Reserve – 1 p.m.
SVC visits Ohio on Saturday to face CWR. SVC looks for thier first win vs an undefeated Case team that has been scoring quite efficiently. Case is fresh off a win in OT vs CMU. SVC gets a break from PAC action this week but its not easy.

Case 42 SVC 14


Thiel at Waynesburg* - 1:30 p.m.

The Tomcats visit Wiley Stadium in Greene County this week as they look to get back on the winning track vs an undefeated Yellow Jacket team led by the freshman sensation Heller. Minton and Hess will look to run the ball on the stingy defense while the Darkside will look to stop the leading rusher in the PAC. Turnovers cost the Tomcats last week and if they turn the ball over this week they will not be happy with the results. Last year Waynesburg shocked Thiel at home and I am looking for the Tomcats to seek revenge.

Thiel 21 Waynesburg 17

Washington & Jefferson at Grove City* – 1:30 p.m.

W&J takes the trip up 79 to visit the Wolverines where they have not played their best football in the past few years. Although they have won it has not been pretty. GCC won the Mercer Cup against Thiel last week and look to build on that momentum. Unfortunatly, they face the high powered offense of the Presidents led by qb Swallow. I don't see a let down by the men in black and red and I look for them to be focused and take care of buisness in preparation for the showdown with Waynesburg.

W&J 48 GCC 10


Westminster at Bethany* - 1:30 p.m.

Westminster looks to rebound after concecutive losses. Bethany looks to deep down and pull themselves from the wreckage of thier past two games where they have been dismantled. Bethany is playing at home but I like the Titans in this one.

Westminster 27 Bethany 21

Geneva at Thomas More*^ - 2:30 p.m.

Geneva had the week off last week while the Saints won on the road in Latrobe. Thomas More plays well at home but this week they are seeing a good team in the Golden Tornadoes. TMC's freshman are playing well and Collier is running the ball but not this week.

Geneva 28 TMC 10


GOOD LUCK TO ALL PAC TEAMS THIS WEEK!!!

GO TOMCATS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 19, 2007, 04:31:10 PM
As a person who competed against shep I do not think he is a guy I would endorse as my head coach. I heard nothing but bad things about him, such as spying on teams when they are practicing and telling kids false information when he is recruiting them. He at one point last year after a lost to W&J challenged a parent (ABLES) to a fight after the game. Then got in Ables face telling him off about his father, this was all in front of the players and the fans at the game. Then when the JV's played the following day at the yellow jackets field, he almost got into a fist fight with Ables. I happened to be at both events and witnessed them both. I thought that was very poor decision on his part to belittle a player in front of his friends and family. Also picking a fight with a fan/father. The comment made by the father was Shep you are not cut out for college football, maybe you should stick to High school ball. That end raged Shep to the point of being restrained by fellow staff. Now as yellow jacket football in general. I think that it is a good school with some talent, but the talent is what keeps the team a float. He does not have to coach to much on offense when he is blowing teams out like St. Vincent, on the other side of the ball (defense) i have a lot of respect for the defensive coaches Especially Scott. They know how to handle the PAC teams offenses, but as Shep for a head coach, not so much. I think he has been blessed with good running backs. But when he faces stiffer competition and actually has to coach it will not be a pretty sight. He better hope his Defense pulls it out for him.

I hope this does not offend anybody but it is my opinion
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 19, 2007, 04:49:56 PM

Now to things that matter the predictions.

First off the game of the week Thiel verses the Waynesburg college. I think that this will be the quickest game in PAC history with a combine 400 yards of rushing from both teams. The only problem is that the rushing yards will come mostly on the Thiel Side as Minton and company will rush for 280 yards of offense. As for the freshmen Sensation from WC he will get a little taste of a stingy defense. He will only have 68 yards on 22 carries. He will now know what it feels like to be a college rival game. The tomcats do not care for the yellow jackets and its the same on the other side. Final score will come as Minton breaks another long run of 50 yards to put the game away.
TC 28 WC 10

SV is starting to gain some confidence but it will not be enough to edge the boys of Case Western the Bearcats will have one special teams TD and a Defensive TD.
SV 17 CW 35


Now we going back to a PAC battle as the Bison hope to get back on track with a victory over the battered Titans. I think this will be a rebound game for the Bison's and they will roll on to a stunning victory as the passing game will take off. The bison's will have 322 yards of passing with 3 TDs and 1 interception, but it will be a first half ending interception.
BC 24 WEST 17

Thomas More will hope to get back on track, but it will be the wrong track since they are playing Geneva. Thomas More will be getting more and more experience as the young team will battle but in the end lose by only 1 TD
TMC 14 GENEVA 21

Now to my favorite game of the week the Presidents of W&J at Grove City College. The presidents have had some problems playing the Wolverines at the field. In the last two meetings at GCC the presidents has let Grove City break one school record. 4 Years ago it was the longest kickoff return for a TD and two years ago it was the longest Interception return. I look for this to be a first half blow out to a certain extent, but look for the Wolverines to start the Wolverine Shuffle in the second half to make it a good game. The Wolverines will use long counts and misdirection to throw off the young defense of the presidents. I think that is will only work for about two plays then the boys in the red and black will be doing the Crank that dance and supermaning in the endzone. In this prediction i will give two scores a first half score and a second half score. the special team will finally make a stand on kickoff since they will be doing a lot of it and i am sure that coach Goff pink slip a lot of kids after two weeks a failure. I look for a force fumble on kickoff and Blocked Punt.
W&J 31 GCC 7 W&J 38 GCC 21


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 20, 2007, 09:59:22 AM
For anyone who wishes to follow the CWRU-SVC game there is live streaming video that will be archived later.

http://www.case.edu/athletics/varsity/broadcast/
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2007, 07:59:30 PM
sounds like a questionable fumble call that was reversed and called incomplete (after being returned to the Geneva 15) was the nail in the coffin for the Saints today....taking away a momentum swing.   Saints lose 10-9. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 21, 2007, 08:11:52 PM
SaintsFAN...

Just got back from Bethany and it was great watching football in the fall up north. Bison offense finally hit on all cylinders with QB Joyner throwing for 321 and WRs Cruse(12) & McNeil(8) with 20 catches for 273. Joyner also ran for 2 scores and could be Offensive Player of the Week. BC had 503 total yards.

Looking forward to a good game next week with TMC in Bethany. Tough loss for Saints on Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2007, 08:31:49 AM
willy,

thats good....congrats.

The Saints are going to be pissed this week. . . combination of Geneva and last year's Bethany.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 22, 2007, 09:53:39 AM
Took a bye week on the predictions but i will be back for the games this week. Good win for the Prez this wk. The last few years have not been kind in GC for them. This years team did not overlook the wolverines and handled business. This team is very focused and will be very ready for the showdown this week. If there is one thing i like about this matchup is that Waynesburg is one dimensional. W&J has a great history of shutting down big time RB's. The last time the Prez faced the Rushing leader was against Wilkes in the ECAC bowl in 2003 and he was shut down. I do not think this game is going to be as good as the hype but we are going to find out very soon.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OLine Coach on October 22, 2007, 11:02:20 AM
BigErn - It's a shame to hear stuff like that about the coach at my alma mater. It wasn't offensive at all.  your prediction of WU losing to Thiel was offensive.  Just Kidding. 

I was at the game this past weekend.  I was impressed with the Jackets D.  Although TC made adjustments at half time and did start to move the ball a little more - I thought they looked alright.  Thiel had some nice athletes but looked really small up front on O and D.  I think heller is going to have a tough time keeping his stats up because teams are keying on him.  My only real disappointment was the QB.  I think he is just a freshman, so hopefully he will improve.  Can't say I agreed with all of the play calling also.  But a win is a win and the JACKETS are 7-0!!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 22, 2007, 11:50:46 PM
Another tough weekend for my Tomcats.  It looks like this will be a rebuilding year for the Cats, but I'm confident that in the years to come they will return to their winning ways.  That young Offense reminds me of the Offense my first few years as a Tomcat.  They were talented, but lacked the experience to consistently dominate.  As the years went by they gained the experience they needed, and  By the 05 season they could shoot it out with anyone in the conference.  Thiel is not at the point yet as a program to consistently maintain the level of exellence the 05' squad displayed, but trust me, under Coach Leip, they are on their way.
The GREAT news is that my lil bro Steve Minton is up and about, even though he won't be playing anymore ball the Tomcat faithfull are happy he's doing well.  I don't think anyone will argue that he has nothing left to prove.
Also, I'm glad to see that the tone on PostPatterns has taken a more positive tone than the last time I logged on.  Even Bigern seems to have joined in on the act.  I guess that tongue lashing me and Pitt gave him set him straight.  Just messing wit ya Big.  A little trash talking is cool, many of us did it as players, but I'm glad were all keeping it positive. 
Lastly, I want to give a shout out to my main man EC Warrior AKA Mr. Wilmus #14, who I bumped into at the Thiel/W&J game.  I didn't expect a PRESIDENT to be that cool.  Kidding!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 23, 2007, 08:40:55 AM
Well Dark it was not so much the tongue lashing from you two, because i can handle some tongue lashing. It was that my karma points were going down. i am not a fan of being in the negative. So i lightened up so my points can go up. I know we talked a lot of trash on the field when we played, whether it was me talking after a score or high low with one of my tackles, it was all fun. Now that i am in the real world i do not get a chance to display my verbal assault on anybody. It would be kind of difficult to keep a job if you came into the office after a sale and started jaw jacking your fellow co-workers. Or if i called done of my competitors up and started on them (i think that's called harassment). That's why posting on here is so much fun.

I would like to comment on my predictions from last week. One i am pretty good at calling out the victories just like in my glory days such as calling the Bethany win and passing bonanza, J/K, but i really thought that Thiel would beat Waynesburg. I bet the reason why Thiel did not win is because Shep decided not to start a fight with Thiel College like they did the year before, when Shep lead the boys over to Thiel as they were coming on the field. I am very hopeful that the yellow jackets try that mess when they play the boys in RED & BLACK come down there this weekend.  That's another thing I forgot to bring up about Shep last week is that last year he tried to bully teams by having his boys start a fight with the other team before the game started. He did it at Thiel last year and at W&J, but I think he got away from that since both teams did not back down from his approach.  Now don't get me wrong i think that it is awesome that two teams in the PAC are doing well, but i wish it was any other team than Waynesburg. I am not a fan of the school at all; i am not a fan of the head coach. The only person i know and care for is Scotty V. To be honest with you i rather the presidents be winless then to have WC undefeated.
I am going to stop now before i get to crazy with my comments.

Saint I am coming down next week what's your status on coming to the game. Tennessee is out of contention and Notre Dame has no chance. Come to the stadium and share a drink.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 23, 2007, 08:59:55 AM
Glad to see the board being active!

Definatly a big game for the PAC this week as the two unbeatens go head to head. I think W&J will be a good test for the Waynesburg D as Heller will be a good test for the President D.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 23, 2007, 01:44:10 PM
I think that Waynesburg's D is overated. I am not saying they are not good but they did give up 35 points to Wooster who is not the same Scots team as they have been in the past with Tony Sutton. I think W&J will be able to move the ball all day on the Jackets. I am concerned about the defense and special teams for the prez as that could cost them the game. The defense seems to be better than in years past but still something is missing. Good individual Match up between Gitlitz and Heller. I doubt Heller has been hit by a bigger or faster LB this year as Gitlitz goes 6-3 240 and can move.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 23, 2007, 01:45:42 PM
Thanks for the shoutout Darkside, it was nice meeting you, and it's always nice to hear from my fanclub.

Here is a question for everyone, who is more important to their offense, Swallow or Heller?  And who does everyone think will have the better game on Saturday.

Balwin High football rules, more than Knibb High.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 03:29:26 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 23, 2007, 01:45:42 PM
Thanks for the shoutout Darkside, it was nice meeting you, and it's always nice to hear from my fanclub.

Here is a question for everyone, who is more important to their offense, Swallow or Heller?  And who does everyone think will have the better game on Saturday.

Balwin High football rules, more than Knibb High.

Whoa there EC!  I was just giving u a shout out I'm definitely not part of your FANCLUB.  I think that's some of that W&J arrogance rearing its ugly head again.  I guess that's what I get for trying to get along with a President, besides I don't think u were even good enough to have a fanclub.  Don't make me have to get Brandon Chambers to take care of you, AGAIN!!!! :D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 23, 2007, 03:32:37 PM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 03:29:26 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 23, 2007, 01:45:42 PM
Thanks for the shoutout Darkside, it was nice meeting you, and it's always nice to hear from my fanclub.

Here is a question for everyone, who is more important to their offense, Swallow or Heller?  And who does everyone think will have the better game on Saturday.

Balwin High football rules, more than Knibb High.

Whoa there EC!  I was just giving u a shout out I'm definitely not part of your FANCLUB.  I think that's some of that W&J arrogance rearing its ugly head again.  I guess that's what I get for trying to get along with a President, besides I don't think u were even good enough to have a fanclub.  Don't make me have to get Brandon Chambers to take care of you, AGAIN!!!! :D

hahaha, AGAIN??? I don't remember the first time haha
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2007, 03:43:30 PM
Now THIS is the PAC board I remember...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 23, 2007, 04:10:40 PM
Bob, since you see the majority of W&J games, do you ever notice that when the Presidents miss an extra point or get it blocked, that Sirianni ALWAYS goes for 2 on the next TD.  It doesn't matter if it's the first quarter or the fourth, there is a 100% chance he will try to make up that one point.  I think this is an awful strategy, and is a problem in the NFL as well.  Do you ever recall a time that he did not do this?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2007, 04:19:36 PM
The misses haven't happened alot, though they've happened alot more often this year.

He does, regularly, go for two, particularly in the first half with the game still "in question"...

Sometime in the past, I'd heard a "general rule" about that, but, for the life of me, can't remember what it is....

I haven't really perceived a problem with Coach's decisions on this...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 23, 2007, 04:24:41 PM
As long as this doesn't come up in a close game then I guess your right.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 23, 2007, 05:13:20 PM
Darkside,
why is it every time someone says something you got to run your mouth about arrogance. I think you should control yourself on making dumb comments. As a president i think when you start talking garbage you do not realize what you are saying, so i will let you feel like your comments are of some importance. Now as for Fast Willy he played a different positions then your boy chambers, How is he doing i heard that the crack business is booming. Isn't he in jail. But that is not a shot at all Tomcats so please do not get offended.

Now i think Bobby Swallow is a great QB he could be however replaced more so then Keller. Swallow is surrounded by talented players so Matthews, Jones and T-MAC could lift the burden off of the back up QB. Now as i say that i do not want Bobby out of the game. But as for the Jackets of Yellow i think if Keller is out Shep is on the sidelines fighting with another parent because he will not know how to deal with the pressure letting a RB dictate the game. For instance i do not see the yellow jackets compromising the run game with a legit passing game. Now this could be said for the Presidents.

Presidents
Athletics
Conference

remember the name and remember the greatness.

P.S. Darkside you started it. That's how us Arrogant boys do it, you mess with one you mess with us all.

Kiss the RINGS
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 07:02:50 PM
smallerner,
ARE U CRYING AGAIN.  I was messing with ya boy "fast willy" didn't u see the smilly face.  I thought it was cool for a little friendly trash talking.  As for my Brandon Chambers comment, I was refering to the receiver Dback matchup GENIUS.  As for your comment about him, that was totally uncalled for.  I'm not sure what B. Chambers is doing with himself, but someone with a football career as insignificant as yours isn't even allowed to make reference to someone who had a career like his.  I see why the former W&J players I talked to said your not even respected among them. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 23, 2007, 07:23:59 PM
Darkside

Some stats to back Wilmus on your comment on Chambers and i know your were messing with him. Just thought i would throw some stats out there for everyone.


2004

Wilmus 11 tackles 2 picks 1 sack
PAC defensive player of the week
Chambers 9-97 O td's

2005

Wilmus 11 tackles
Chambers 5-53 O TD's

Chambers never did anything against us and Wilmus was All Pac for two years and in 04 had six picks. He earned a right for a fan club.

W&J earns a right for arrogance as we win and go deep in the playoffs every year. Last i remember Thiel had a little arrogance as well which make the matchups fun. Thiel is no longer relevant so lets move on to Waynesburg.

Darkside dont take it personal that your team is in a funk they will snap out of it hopefully as Leip is too good of a coach to go into a slide and losing the QB this year hurt as Lascola is not a QB. If you would like to comment on my playing career that is fine as well i will tell you i was a track guy trying to play football. I may not have started but i learned enough about football to now coach it and talk about it.  Give a shout to Rock Davis if you talk to him he was a cool cat who i competed with quite a bit in the Shot Put.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 07:38:11 PM
Wes,

According to those stats, Chambers averaged about 7 receptions for basically 75 yds.  For most receivers that would be considered good numbers against the "ALMIGHTY" presidents, but ur right for a dominant receiver like Chambers they were terrible numbers. 
P.S
I meant to say Chambers vs. Wilmus, Cherish, Pilato, and whatever linebacker that had to widened out to help out the first three.

I kill myself :D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 07:44:37 PM
And Wes,

Let's stay away from football accolades like All conference, Player of the Week, etc because I don't know many players Tomcat or President who have more accolades on the field than Chambers. 
Actually, i do.  Some guy named Kennard Davis.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 23, 2007, 07:57:45 PM
Darkside

Your right it was a pretty good secondary and for WR its about big plays and Td's his numbers werent bad but Wilmus stood out and dominated the 04 game so much so that your Tomcats copied the corner blitz we ran later in the year. Last i rememebr the only deep pass completed was a fake FG. I dont remeber us double or triple teaming any WR ever mainly cover 2 and 3. We however did gameplan for you so give yourself a pat on the back as we have already discussed that. You also say ALMIGHTY with some sarcasm as the Presidents are clearly not very impressive at all.  Ill give you one President with more accolades than everyone FRANK PILATO who was a two time AFCA All American over your boy Kennard. I never said that Chambers was not very good either.

Oline get some of your Orange Yellow Jackets on here for some chatter on the game of the century this wkend.

Darkside and Pitt throw your two cents in on the Prez and Jackets game this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 23, 2007, 08:03:29 PM
I'm thinking of traveling to Waynesburg this weekend and must admit I haven't been there in nearly ten years for a game.

Are they playing on the same field with the train tracks running on the other end?  Or have they move the field or upgraded it at all?

(Edit:  Just looked on my own.  Looks to be the same place, and was 'rededicated'.  Good, because that place used to be a real dump)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 23, 2007, 08:07:37 PM
burghboy

Field Turf now but still one sided stands and train tracks running literally right behind the visitor bench with the Conductor usually running the train up and back the whole game with a Waynesburg flag out the side blowing his whistle.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 23, 2007, 08:09:03 PM
Thanks Wes,  I just checked it.  Looks much better.   ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 08:16:43 PM
Wow, Pilato was a 2x All American.  That's very impressive, but Kennard was a 4x All-American.  Please don't try to compare any of your guys to Kennard, anyone but him.  I don't want to put anyone to shame. ;D

Prez over WC
I hear the RB over at Waynesburg is a good one, but so were Abels and Daniels.  They'll probably put up some pts, but I don't think WC defense can contain Mr. Efficient Bobby Swallow.  I can't remember if Czerwein is still around.  If he is he may slow down the W&J Off., but the Prez still have too much firepower to lose.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 23, 2007, 08:42:12 PM
Darkside

4 times funny if you look at this link he was never an All American. I know there are about 40 All American teams but there is only one that counts and is recognized. Which is the AFCA All America team voted by the coaches. Frank was also a first team selection on the AP little All America team which is 1-AA II and III.
Frank Pilato 2003 and 2004 first team
Dave Hendricks was the only All American from Thiel in 2005.

Dont get me wrong Kennard was good but ill take Frank

See for yourself if the link works All Americans are listed by teams in PDF format.

http://www.afca.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=69273&SPID=7863&DB_OEM_ID=9300&ATCLID=289547

Czerwein is still there and i can see him causing some trouble also but i thought Lorber would cause some too and he did not. W&J will neautralize the pass rush with screens. They run a ton of screens this year which helps with Swallows completion percentage.

Big Ern any word on Mathews health is he ready to go this week.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 09:14:48 PM
Wes,

Nice proproganda!!  I can't fault you for taking Pilato he's one of your guys, and there is no doubt about what he did on the field.  As for me, I'll take Kennard because when it comes to statistics (especially Int's, passes defended, and Int's returned for TD's) he is unmatched in the PAC, but most of all he's one of my guys.  Let's be honest, neither of us can be objective on this one.

I'm interested to know what people think about the overall state of the PAC in 07, and what they expect in the years to come.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2007, 09:36:49 PM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on October 23, 2007, 08:42:12 PM
Darkside

4 times funny if you look at this link he was never an All American. I know there are about 40 All American teams but there is only one that counts and is recognized. Which is the AFCA All America team voted by the coaches. Frank was also a first team selection on the AP little All America team which is 1-AA II and III.
Frank Pilato 2003 and 2004 first team
Dave Hendricks was the only All American from Thiel in 2005.

Dont get me wrong Kennard was good but ill take Frank

See for yourself if the link works All Americans are listed by teams in PDF format.

http://www.afca.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=69273&SPID=7863&DB_OEM_ID=9300&ATCLID=289547

Czerwein is still there and i can see him causing some trouble also but i thought Lorber would cause some too and he did not. W&J will neautralize the pass rush with screens. They run a ton of screens this year which helps with Swallows completion percentage.

Big Ern any word on Mathews health is he ready to go this week.



Actually, the NCAA counts our All-American team too. It recognizes both AFCA and D3football.com on equal footing in the NCAA record book.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 23, 2007, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 07:02:50 PM
smallerner,
ARE U CRYING AGAIN.  I was messing with ya boy "fast willy" didn't u see the smilly face.  I thought it was cool for a little friendly trash talking.  As for my Brandon Chambers comment, I was refering to the receiver Dback matchup GENIUS.  As for your comment about him, that was totally uncalled for.  I'm not sure what B. Chambers is doing with himself, but someone with a football career as insignificant as yours isn't even allowed to make reference to someone who had a career like his.  I see why the former W&J players I talked to said your not even respected among them. 

Its funny how you say none of my former teammates respect me, one was voted captain, two still keep in touch with mostly all of them and three you need to stop swinging off of the Power teet at W&J. Now as for Matthews Wes he is in and ready to rock. These means more headaches for the waynesbug defense.

Now Darkside you need to stop being a baby and quit living in the past. We would like to keep talking about this season, but you keep bring up glory days. I can say i came back to play in the PLAYOFFS FOR THREE GAMES (wouldn't be nice to say that you played in three playoff games, but you cannot) after blowing my knee out, but i do not expect to get a pat on my back for doing that. You would have been out for a whole year. Whats next you going to start talking about high school football stats. How great so and so was. Just stop it and start talking about his year. Now as for Thiel this year, they are having a bad year, but i am sure they will not fold and next year they will be a force in the PAC.

I think if W&J can make Waynesburg throw they can have a major victory on their hands. The yellowjackets do not have the WR's like in years past.
OLINE you should get more Yellowjackets on here it would be nice to have a person from each school cheering their team on in this chat room.

P.S. Willy remember when the recruits that would meet you?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 23, 2007, 11:44:10 PM
smallerner,

You remind me of that song "It's my party and I CRY if I want to, CRY if I want to, CRRRRYYYYY if I want to.  You would CRY too......" I would CRY too if I was an insignificant part of my team's success. :'(

Seriously though tinyerner, if any of this offends you I'm sorry, I enjoy joking around with your former teammates, and I'm sure they RESPECT you very much, I think. ???  I'm sure you were a SATISFACTORY player for the Prez, and it doesn't matter that no one remembers you or your limited contribution to your team.  Just remember you were a part of something GREAT and no one can take that away from you. 

Your BIGGEST FAN
Darkside 90
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 24, 2007, 08:51:30 AM
Only away from the board for a day and boom it blows up...I love it!

I think Heller is more important than Swallow. Plain and simple.

I think Waynesburg goes by Heller and W&J can run and pass. Don't get me wrong Swallow is very important but if he struggles a bit they are good enough to run the ball with Matthews and Jones and get the win while if Heller is shut down I think passing the ball will result in a loss for the Yellow Jackets. I think Swallow wins PAC player of the year honors without a doubt but this Saturday you will see why he is the best around and why Heller has a bright future. I am thinking about heading to the game as well.

PS. Baldwin High Football Rules! HAHA
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
So wait a minute, does all this fighting mean I don't have a fanclub?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 24, 2007, 10:37:37 AM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
So wait a minute, does all this fighting mean I don't have a fanclub?

EC, you do have a fan club and Dark is the president. He will be in Pittsburgh holding a fan club meeting with his I never beat W&J sweat shirt on. See dark you said it right when you said I was on a team that accomplished great things and no one can take that away from me. I did start in all three PLAYOFF games and did play against you when we racked up over 200 yards of rushing. You were there, so you remember that.  I also may have been an average player on a team of superstars and All-Americans, but would have stand out on any other team. It's tough being a big fish in a lake of greatness. Now as for you I use to have respect for you, but then you opened your mouth. So I can see how un-classy you are and still bitter about you never beating us, it's okay. I may have been recognized in the PAC, since I was injured for all of the PAC games but yours and Westminster. I do not look in the past to make myself feel better.  I know what I have done and what I am doing. I am happy with that. From the sounds of that you cannot say the same.

REMEMBER ONE THING JEALOUSY IS A DISEASE AND I AM SORRY THAT YOU CAUGHT THE BUG DARKSIDE. NOW CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK ON TO THE GAMES ON HAND FOR THE WEEK. IF NOT I WILL CALL BOB JAZWINSKI UP AND HAVE HIM CUT BLOCK YOU.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 24, 2007, 10:55:08 AM
Your fan club is strong EC. I was a fan of the extra point team your holds were great i just had to watch out for Sidebotham kicks off the back of my helmet or rear end. I even pulled out some stats for you to suppport your fan club. Big Ern i doubt Darkside knows who JAZ is as he was probably just as irrelevant as you ;D. Just so you know #62 offensive tackle two time All American(On a few non D3 or AFCA polls thanks for the info Pat) who loved playing Thiel's own Darkside.

Big time game this weekend i may have to make the trip to the one sided stands. I would like nothing more than for W&J to monkey stomp the jackets this weekend and hop on the train back to WASHPA. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2007, 12:42:50 PM
yeah well I HAVE NEVER lost to W&J or Thiel (played from 1995-1999) . . . how about that?  Yep, I was 1-0 against those teams   ;D


looks like Bethany is planning to spread Thomas More out on Saturday and try to run the ball on them. . .or do they run to set up the pass? 

I like the match up of our corners (with Rashawn West) against the passing game of BC.  Should be an interesting match up.  Thomas More just played the best defense in the PAC (though they aren't officially in the conference standings). . . I think they are ready to break out, just like the Westminster game.  Hopefully BC doesn't get in the way of that.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2007, 12:45:23 PM
I think W&J pulls away late in the game at Waynesburg. . . finding away to shut down the "Heller-fense" in the 2nd half.  He's a very talented player, he'll get his yards. . . but I think will wear down in the 2nd half. 

W&J is too strong of a team and I think they'll have their way with Waynesburg's front 7. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 03:46:49 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2007, 12:45:23 PM
I think W&J pulls away late in the game at Waynesburg. . . finding away to shut down the "Heller-fense" in the 2nd half.  He's a very talented player, he'll get his yards. . . but I think will wear down in the 2nd half. 

W&J is too strong of a team and I think they'll have their way with Waynesburg's front 7. 

Do you think W&J's offense will be successful against the Waynesburg D if weather becomes a factor like last year's game?  If the rain and wind make W&J one dimensional, who gets the edge?  I would have to say WAY defense (althought I am not sure what Keven Mathews status is).

W&J's gameplan on defense is always to stop the run, and Heller hasn't seen a defense as athletic as W&J's, so I think he will find yards a little harder to come by this week (hopefully).  I think the passing game is what will do them in.  If the QB shows there will be no threat of a passing game, it will seem like the prez have about 15 guys in the box.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 03:50:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2007, 12:42:50 PM
yeah well I HAVE NEVER lost to W&J or Thiel (played from 1995-1999) . . . how about that?  Yep, I was 1-0 against those teams   ;D


looks like Bethany is planning to spread Thomas More out on Saturday and try to run the ball on them. . .or do they run to set up the pass? 

I like the match up of our corners (with Rashawn West) against the passing game of BC.  Should be an interesting match up.  Thomas More just played the best defense in the PAC (though they aren't officially in the conference standings). . . I think they are ready to break out, just like the Westminster game.  Hopefully BC doesn't get in the way of that.



I haven't seen any of these teams play this season, but from the stats and from past years, if the clock runs and it becomes a time of posession game, TMC has the edge.  If it becomes a trackmeat, BC now has some weapons, and comes out ahead.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess it's just a matter of who imposes their will.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2007, 04:37:44 PM
EC,

I didn't come away overly impressed with Waynesburg's defense.  Their athletic and have a good defensive end. . . but running or throwing, I believe W&J will be ok.  I only saw one Waynesburg game and TMC's offense didn't tear that game up.  .  . partly because of Waynesburg and partly because of the youth at QB.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 24, 2007, 04:40:47 PM
Saint, you are a funny dude. You coming next week or what. I know you are unbeaten against us, but i would love to have a brewski with ya.

Hey Wes i think the quad city DJ's said it best "come on and ride it, the choo choo train.......Make way the train is coming threw" By the way it was always funny as hell seeing chicken after a low kick into the back of your heads and asses. Those were the days, but lets not talk about  them because you know who will start bringing up all of the cool stuff him and his boys did that one season.   ;D

I hope the boys come out this weekend gunz a blazing, they will need a big stop on special teams and a quick three and out to spring them a head this weekend. This will be the first game i ever miss in my brothers career at W&J. I hope he can keep the yellow jackets at bay and put a big goose egg up. Look for my predictions on Friday. I got some that may shock even the W&J fans
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bigerneatsboogers on October 24, 2007, 08:10:32 PM
hi there long time listener first time caller and here's how i see it....

EC i would like to join your fan club but only as president or i don't want anything to do with it.

2nd of all- darkside you need to relax thiel had their flash in the pan success, congrats to you and yours for your little run there.

3rd of all- its dubj's conference, until they change the name w&j will always be the king of the mountain

4th of all- little ernski & EC pud said to tell you 2 and i quote: "you can tell those 2 i'll cut block them and WHOOP down they'll go"

lastly- ern nobody likes you

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 24, 2007, 08:28:40 PM
Dirtay nice to see you on here. Only thing Pud could cut is a Orange construction fence to a broken hand or Bettinazzi's uni brow.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 24, 2007, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
So wait a minute, does all this fighting mean I don't have a fanclub?

EC,

I don't know about a fanclub, but you were without a doubt a top level Dback (despite what I said earlier), but I couldn't let you get too full of yourself, as some of you W&J guys tend to do ;D. 
I like how u keep it lite and not get too serious, unlike a certain CRY BABY we both know.

I know you might not be looking that far ahead, but how far do you think Mr. Efficient Bobby S. can take the Prez. this year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 24, 2007, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on October 24, 2007, 10:55:08 AM
Your fan club is strong EC. I was a fan of the extra point team your holds were great i just had to watch out for Sidebotham kicks off the back of my helmet or rear end. I even pulled out some stats for you to suppport your fan club. Big Ern i doubt Darkside knows who JAZ is as he was probably just as irrelevant as you ;D. Just so you know #62 offensive tackle two time All American(On a few non D3 or AFCA polls thanks for the info Pat) who loved playing Thiel's own Darkside.

Big time game this weekend i may have to make the trip to the one sided stands. I would like nothing more than for W&J to monkey stomp the jackets this weekend and hop on the train back to WASHPA. 

Wes,

I remember big #62.  He was one of the most athletic tackles I went against, and he definitely wasn't insignificant/irrelevant, unlike you know who.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on October 25, 2007, 08:12:19 AM
Dirty what's up brother? Its about time you get your but on here. When are you going to West Lib again. Tell Pud i am smack him in the face with a carton of Parliaments and roll him down the hill behind the gym.

Wes, you making the trip down to the big game this weekend?

How many of you really thought that Waynesburg would be undefeated? Lastly what are some of the bigger games this weekend?


P.S. Pick it up ding
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2007, 08:32:06 AM
ernie,

I WILL be there next weekend for the upset, I mean game in Kentucky.  Hopefully the Saints have some momentum for next week, coming off a big win in Bethany? 


Maybe we can meet Bob Gregg also.  If they are coming down. 

Hopefully we see a helluva game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 25, 2007, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 24, 2007, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
So wait a minute, does all this fighting mean I don't have a fanclub?

EC,

I don't know about a fanclub, but you were without a doubt a top level Dback (despite what I said earlier), but I couldn't let you get too full of yourself, as some of you W&J guys tend to do ;D. 
I like how u keep it lite and not get too serious, unlike a certain CRY BABY we both know.

I know you might not be looking that far ahead, but how far do you think Mr. Efficient Bobby S. can take the Prez. this year. 

Thanks man, maybe we'll get you in the fanclub eventually.

As fool Cool Bob Swallow, his fanclub is alive and well.  He will be #1 in every passing category when it's all said and done.  I think he takes this team at least a few rounds deep in the playoffs, and if they can find another gear, I don't think a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th round would be out of the question.  He took them to the 2nd round last year, but that was mostly behind a strong running game.  This year the offense revolves around him, and with his efficiency he can take them relatively deep.  But the question is, Bob will lead, will the rest of the Prez follow?  We will see what type of leader he is when playoffs roll around.

First things first tho: Waynesburg.  There is no chance W&J is looking ahead to the playoffs. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2007, 09:26:37 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2007, 08:32:06 AM
Maybe we can meet Bob Gregg also.  If they are coming down. 


We'll be there, hopefully with AQ hopes in tow.

What's your stadium status?  I know we're playing at Dixie Heights.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 25, 2007, 09:55:56 AM
I am curious to see if anyone from Waynesburg does a better job at spatting than Tom McCafferty does.  This will be one of the key matchups in the game.  I was gonna say Nick Cherish, but that's not even fair, since not only did he have the biggest tri's in D3, his spat jobs were tops in NCAA (all divisions) during his days.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 25, 2007, 10:00:25 AM
Waynesburg should pray for rain I think. That is the only chance they have at playing W&J tough. I think the Presidents will roll this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 25, 2007, 10:07:20 AM
SaintsFAN...

I just hope the weather claers up for the BC passing game. If Joyner is on like he was last week your in for a long day, but that's a big if. BC is also running the ball much better this season. I enjoy getting single coverage from your BD on Cruse all day but that hasn't happened all season.

Should be a great game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2007, 10:49:14 AM
Unless it's a driving rain, I see the wet turf HELPING the Presidents.

They are precise in their routes.

Other than being a little "off" on very rare occasions, (18-30, 230 yards), Swallaw has been touch perfect.

AND the Presidents can, and WILL, run the football.

From W&J's standpoint, I say, drizzle on, all day long!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2007, 12:11:38 PM
Bob,

The stadium is scheduled to be finished in January.....the game is to be at Dixie Heights.  Its not a bad stadium to have a small college game at. . . stands on both sides. . .

They are still moving dirt and whatnot with the bulldozers now.


Willy,

I think you'll like what you see of the Thomas More secondary. . . they've improved it greatly with the additon of West at CB. . . he has great closing speed. 

its going to be a good match up , I believe.  The rain plays into our hands. .
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 25, 2007, 01:22:56 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2007, 10:49:14 AM
Unless it's a driving rain, I see the wet turf HELPING the Presidents.

They are precise in their routes.

Other than being a little "off" on very rare occasions, (18-30, 230 yards), Swallaw has been touch perfect.

AND the Presidents can, and WILL, run the football.

From W&J's standpoint, I say, drizzle on, all day long!

Ya I don't see Bob having a lot of trouble unless there is a hurricane.  Defensively, I don't see Waynesburg being much of a threat throwing the ball.  Whether it's raining or not, W&J will be focused on stopping the run.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 25, 2007, 07:30:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 25, 2007, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 24, 2007, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
So wait a minute, does all this fighting mean I don't have a fanclub?

EC,

I don't know about a fanclub, but you were without a doubt a top level Dback (despite what I said earlier), but I couldn't let you get too full of yourself, as some of you W&J guys tend to do ;D. 
I like how u keep it lite and not get too serious, unlike a certain CRY BABY we both know.

I know you might not be looking that far ahead, but how far do you think Mr. Efficient Bobby S. can take the Prez. this year. 

Thanks man, maybe we'll get you in the fanclub eventually.

As fool Cool Bob Swallow, his fanclub is alive and well.  He will be #1 in every passing category when it's all said and done.  I think he takes this team at least a few rounds deep in the playoffs, and if they can find another gear, I don't think a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th round would be out of the question.  He took them to the 2nd round last year, but that was mostly behind a strong running game.  This year the offense revolves around him, and with his efficiency he can take them relatively deep.  But the question is, Bob will lead, will the rest of the Prez follow?  We will see what type of leader he is when playoffs roll around.

First things first tho: Waynesburg.  There is no chance W&J is looking ahead to the playoffs. 


So, I guess everyone has officially put B. Swallow in the #1 spot among W&J QBs.  I'm still a little skeptical, and maybe b/c I've only seen him play twice in person.  His efficiency is unmatched and his pose is as good as Dawson's, but he never gets touched while dropping back to pass.
Dawson is the top dog to me b/c pressure didn't bother him.  My sophomore year we put alot of pressure on him, and sacked him about 4x.  I think I even remember him smiling once after taking a hard sack, then the next play he unloaded a 69 yd TD bomb to Virgin. 
I wonder if Swallow can handle pressure and still perform????

P.S
E.C there is no chance of me joining your fanclub ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 25, 2007, 07:37:57 PM
i think its time for some predictions.

TMC @ Bethany

I look for Tommy Moe to roll in this one as pay back is a (you fill in the rest)
Collier runs wild for 198 and three Td's. Bethany maybe hangs tough in a couple years.

TMC 38 Bethany 7

Frostburg @ Westminster

Westminster is now officially the worst team in the PAC. They have no talent on either side of the ball. I know alumni are not thrilled with a team that used to be a NAIA national title contender goes to a bottom of the barrel D3 team. Frostburg wins this one.

Frostburg 28 Westminster 10

Saint Vincent @ Geneva

Geneva rolls in this one as Bondi runs and throws for 5 td's. This one is over about halftime. Saint Vincent's time is coming as Colbert used to put some offensive gameplans on us at W&J in the playoffs while he was at Bridgewater.

Saint Vincent 7 Geneva 45

Thank god for this game otherwise this might one of the worst slates of games in the history of the PAC.

Super Bowl of the PAC. 7-0 vs. 7-0

#8 W&J @ #21 Waynesburg

I am not impressed with Waynesburg and that has nothing to do with my bias towards W&J. The prez step up for big games and the Heller wall is not going to intimidate them at all. I look for Gitlitz to have 22 tackles 9 solo and a FF. Offensively the burg can blitz all day long out of the 3-4 and they will get burned as Swallow is not affected by pressue like Chris Edwards could be at times. Also Sirianni has concocted a nice screen game that will neautralize the blitz. Todd Young chest bumps with the lineman will be plenty. Swallow has 3 td's and runs for one supermanning over the goaline.

W&J 31 Waynesbug 13

Big Ern i do not think i will be at the game but i have not made up my mind yet. I have a game friday and films usually follow in the morn. Get at me.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 26, 2007, 11:00:19 AM
Prediction Time:

TMC @ Bethany

TMC is on the road against the Bison after a heartbreaking loss to Geneva. TMC is getting things going as their young players are getting experience while Collier and the defense is playing tough. Bethany put up alot of points last week vs Westminster but they will face a tougher Saints defense that will make things tough.

TMC 21 Bethany 14


Frostburg @ Westminster

Westminster is wondering what happened to them. They have been beaten handedly by TMC and Bethany and play home to visiting Frostburg. Its a good think they have good tailgate parties because they will need to be impaired to witness this one.

Frostburg 35 Westminster 6

Saint Vincent @ Geneva

Geneva won a close one last week vs TMC. This week they get a breather. SVC will face a good team that is out of thier league. SVC is looking for thier first win but the Golden Tornadoes will be too big, too fast, too physical under the lights in Beaver.

Geneva 42 SVC 7


PAC Game of the Week:

W&J @ Waynesburg

The battle of undefeated teams in the PAC square off is Greene County. Its a short ride to Waynesburg but their is a homefield advatage. The one sided stands and train tracks behind you at Wiley Stadium create a unique environment. The Waynesburg faithful will be ready for this game. However, the Yellow Jackets will not. W&J is out on a mission this year and they are going to show why they are contenders this year. Swallow and company are a threat in the air and on the ground. I look for a big perfomance from Swallow and McCafferty while Jones and Matthews get it done on the ground behind thier offensive line. The defense is not getting much attention this year but when they shut down Heller and force the Yellow Jackets to throw you will see why they are the best defense in the PAC.

W&J 41 Waynesburg 7


Grove City and Thiel off

GOOD LUCK to all PAC Teams! 


Keep Fighting TOMCATS!!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bigerneatsboogers on October 26, 2007, 01:45:01 PM
here's my opinion on dawson,edwards, and swallow

-all three had unbelievable accuracy. edwards had the strongest arm followed by dawson with swallow bringing up the rear. i caught balls from all three, this is the order of arm strength, dawson's might have been a little underrated.

dawson- great qb, threw for over 10,000 yards. was a playmaker, didn't get rattled. if certain things occurred or did not occur during his senior year this discussion would be who is the 2nd best qb in dubj history behind dawson. however, this isn't about woulda, coulda, shoulda. limited playoff success but his sophomore and junior year he was untouchable. his senior year brought him back to mortality and left the door open for swallow to make his move.

edwards- over 7,000 career yards. could throw the ball threw a brick wall AND hit the scoreboard from the 10 yard line at cameron. could get rattled when hit. stoic on the field. no real emotion either way. was a good and bad thing. rocket arm is his claim to fame. AND the most playoff success out of any qb on this list to date.

swallow- making moves. accuracy MIGHT be the best of all three. all 3 were amazingly on point with their throws. tied with dawson for best touch passes. doesn't have the rocket launching arm but doesn't need it. he is better than edwards but i'm not putting him past dawson...yet. let's see how the playoffs pan out and not to mention next year before we take the crown from dawson's head.

top dogs:
1. dawson-(let's face it, if things continue as they are, he's just warming the seat for swallow.
2.swallow- barring an injury or a radical change of behavioral choices he'll be top gun soon enough.
3. edwards- i'd take edwards over either for a reunion im dodgeball tourney. ern i would pick a blind armless girl over you.

-ECwarrior what is it that attracted bigern to heath high again??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bigerneatsboogers on October 26, 2007, 02:03:02 PM
on a technical note...

when i say i caught balls from all 3 i only mean in practice. i never played a down. ECWarrior is my hero. i got #14 tattoed on my inner thigh...








....seriously
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 26, 2007, 02:19:16 PM
Quote from: bigerneatsboogers on October 26, 2007, 01:45:01 PM
here's my opinion on dawson,edwards, and swallow

-all three had unbelievable accuracy. edwards had the strongest arm followed by dawson with swallow bringing up the rear. i caught balls from all three, this is the order of arm strength, dawson's might have been a little underrated.

dawson- great qb, threw for over 10,000 yards. was a playmaker, didn't get rattled. if certain things occurred or did not occur during his senior year this discussion would be who is the 2nd best qb in dubj history behind dawson. however, this isn't about woulda, coulda, shoulda. limited playoff success but his sophomore and junior year he was untouchable. his senior year brought him back to mortality and left the door open for swallow to make his move.

edwards- over 7,000 career yards. could throw the ball threw a brick wall AND hit the scoreboard from the 10 yard line at cameron. could get rattled when hit. stoic on the field. no real emotion either way. was a good and bad thing. rocket arm is his claim to fame. AND the most playoff success out of any qb on this list to date.

swallow- making moves. accuracy MIGHT be the best of all three. all 3 were amazingly on point with their throws. tied with dawson for best touch passes. doesn't have the rocket launching arm but doesn't need it. he is better than edwards but i'm not putting him past dawson...yet. let's see how the playoffs pan out and not to mention next year before we take the crown from dawson's head.

top dogs:
1. dawson-(let's face it, if things continue as they are, he's just warming the seat for swallow.
2.swallow- barring an injury or a radical change of behavioral choices he'll be top gun soon enough.
3. edwards- i'd take edwards over either for a reunion im dodgeball tourney. ern i would pick a blind armless girl over you.

-ECwarrior what is it that attracted bigern to heath high again??

What "certain things" happened in Dawson's senior year?  

I think saying "limited playoff success" is too good of a compliment.  Dawson won 2 playoffs games in his career.  Bob already has half of that (Edwards only had 2 wins also I believe, but we can agree he is not in the top 2).  I understand your point that Bob will be considered the best after he puts up some more numbers, it is just a matter of time now.  His playoff numbers/wins will put this argument to bed anyways.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 26, 2007, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: bigerneatsboogers on October 26, 2007, 02:03:02 PM
on a technical note...

when i say i caught balls from all 3 i only mean in practice. i never played a down. ECWarrior is my hero. i got #14 tattoed on my inner thigh...








....seriously

Your email address in your bio says jtmiller....I don't think it's too hard to figure out who you are Pops
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 26, 2007, 02:22:03 PM
EC,

I think you hit the nail on the head. After this season there will be no doubt who the best President QB of all time is. Dawson is/was on top and its a matter of time until Swallow passes him. I think with a few playoff wins and he is there.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 26, 2007, 02:29:42 PM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 25, 2007, 07:30:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 25, 2007, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 24, 2007, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 24, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
So wait a minute, does all this fighting mean I don't have a fanclub?

EC,

I don't know about a fanclub, but you were without a doubt a top level Dback (despite what I said earlier), but I couldn't let you get too full of yourself, as some of you W&J guys tend to do ;D. 
I like how u keep it lite and not get too serious, unlike a certain CRY BABY we both know.

I know you might not be looking that far ahead, but how far do you think Mr. Efficient Bobby S. can take the Prez. this year. 

Thanks man, maybe we'll get you in the fanclub eventually.

As fool Cool Bob Swallow, his fanclub is alive and well.  He will be #1 in every passing category when it's all said and done.  I think he takes this team at least a few rounds deep in the playoffs, and if they can find another gear, I don't think a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th round would be out of the question.  He took them to the 2nd round last year, but that was mostly behind a strong running game.  This year the offense revolves around him, and with his efficiency he can take them relatively deep.  But the question is, Bob will lead, will the rest of the Prez follow?  We will see what type of leader he is when playoffs roll around.

First things first tho: Waynesburg.  There is no chance W&J is looking ahead to the playoffs. 


So, I guess everyone has officially put B. Swallow in the #1 spot among W&J QBs.  I'm still a little skeptical, and maybe b/c I've only seen him play twice in person.  His efficiency is unmatched and his pose is as good as Dawson's, but he never gets touched while dropping back to pass.
Dawson is the top dog to me b/c pressure didn't bother him.  My sophomore year we put alot of pressure on him, and sacked him about 4x.  I think I even remember him smiling once after taking a hard sack, then the next play he unloaded a 69 yd TD bomb to Virgin. 
I wonder if Swallow can handle pressure and still perform????

P.S
E.C there is no chance of me joining your fanclub ;D

Swallow has played in some big games in his career, including two playoff games as a first time starter.  He can handle the pressure.  They don't call him Cool Bob for nothing. 

And it's cool Darkside, you can just be an unoffical member, those count too.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bigerneatsboogers on October 26, 2007, 02:30:04 PM
ECWarrior-
i dont know who this jtmiller is that you speak of but he sounds like a stud.

you didn't answer the question concerning heath high, very disappointed.

and as far as playoff success is concerned i am talking about how far into the playoffs did that qb take their team? dawson and swallow have gone to the 2nd round and edwards took his squad to the 3rd round. surely you of all people know the competitive difference between the 2nd and 3rd round??

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 26, 2007, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: bigerneatsboogers on October 26, 2007, 02:30:04 PM
ECWarrior-
i dont know who this jtmiller is that you speak of but he sounds like a stud.

you didn't answer the question concerning heath high, very disappointed.

and as far as playoff success is concerned i am talking about how far into the playoffs did that qb take their team? dawson and swallow have gone to the 2nd round and edwards took his squad to the 3rd round. surely you of all people know the competitive difference between the 2nd and 3rd round??



I am not sure what that has to do with anything or what your point is.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2007, 03:21:25 PM
35-7 at this point. . . Bethany is up.  This is a very bad day for the Saints. . .

Thomas More is at the Bethany 8 yard line...in the 4th quarter. 

TMC TD pass to make it 35-13 with extra point pending. . .

35-14 with 14 minutes left in the 4th Quarter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 27, 2007, 04:29:27 PM
W&J 22 Waynesburg 21

Heller has 189 in the first half but the prez rebound and dominate the second half. Should have won by three td's but did not capitalize in the red zone turning the ball over on downs 3 times. Good hard victory that will help the prez in the long run. Scary but Heller has three more years after this he is very good. Saints that is very shocking but your team is young they will learn.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2007, 07:35:52 PM
very young team. . . hopefully this doesn't shoot a hole in the confidence they have.

We start our playoffs this coming Saturday. . .
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 28, 2007, 04:13:52 PM
SaintsFAN...

Just got back to Florida and really enjoyed the game yesteday.TMC's gameplan was really starnge throwing the ball 56 tmes and basically ignoring Collier. Bc is happy to throw it around with anyone so my WR's had a busy day.

Talked with coaches and no one expected the Saints to throw from the first play. Two strong offensive performances in a row for the Bison and a 500 season is possible.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2007, 09:46:46 PM
SW,

Congrats on the win yesterday.  Bethany definitely deserved to win. . I can't speak for the gameplan, I hadn't talked to anyone last week. . . but there definitely wasn't the balance there needed for this game to keep BC off the field, offensively.  I think they probably wanted to come out throwing to stun Bethany early on, and then when they sputtered had to rely on them as Bethany put up their 28 points. 

I think W&J will see a heavy dose of Collier and Kyle James along with Zerhusen. . thats wishful thinking because to get all of them involved, TMC is going to have to have success on offense and defense (keeping W&J off the field/forcing turnovers), which hasn't been W&J's forte this year (turning the ball over and being ineffective on offense).  There's a first time for everything though. . thats why I'll be at the game on Saturday giving bigern noogies and forcing him to bong um...cokes. 

PS, kind of makes me mad that they threw it 51 times. . . puts my 50 attempts up at Wisconsin Osh Kosh in 1998 a little farther back in the record book  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2007, 09:46:46 PM
SW,

Congrats on the win yesterday.  Bethany definitely deserved to win. . I can't speak for the gameplan, I hadn't talked to anyone last week. . . but there definitely wasn't the balance there needed for this game to keep BC off the field, offensively.  I think they probably wanted to come out throwing to stun Bethany early on, and then when they sputtered had to rely on them as Bethany put up their 28 points. 

I think W&J will see a heavy dose of Collier and Kyle James along with Zerhusen. . thats wishful thinking because to get all of them involved, TMC is going to have to have success on offense and defense (keeping W&J off the field/forcing turnovers), which hasn't been W&J's forte this year (turning the ball over and being ineffective on offense).  There's a first time for everything though. . thats why I'll be at the game on Saturday giving bigern noogies and forcing him to bong um...cokes. 

PS, kind of makes me mad that they threw it 51 times. . . puts my 50 attempts up at Wisconsin Osh Kosh in 1998 a little farther back in the record book  ;D

Don't worry Saints, I am still a fan.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2007, 10:50:44 AM
does this mean I have a fan club now??

;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 11:00:05 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2007, 10:50:44 AM
does this mean I have a fan club now??

;D

I think so, Darkside said he wants to be in it as well. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 11:03:15 AM
I was checking out the PAC stats this morning and came across this one:

RECEPTIONS/GAME    Team Cl  G  Rec  Yds TD Avg/C Rec/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Ian Tobin......         GRO  SR  8   60  315  0    5.2     7.50   25

I don't think I've ever seen a statline like this one.  60 catches is by far leading the PAC, but for just 315 yards and 5.2 YPC!  I know this isn't very important to anything, just thought that was a very odd stat.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 29, 2007, 12:44:17 PM
EC,

Basically a wingback taking forward/horizontal pitches. Hard to classify as a pass but stats are stats.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2007, 05:27:58 PM
Anyone else's thoughts besides (WesMantooth AKA EX QB)  PREZ Vs Yellow Jackets Game? 

I actually listened to it on the radio and it seemed as if Waynesburg was able to run at will.  Is Mr. Heller that Good or is Waynesburg Offensive Line that Powerful and technically sound?

Bob Swallow is a very good Quarterback and I am excited for the Prez to represent the PAC in the playoffs.  What else will the Prez need to do in order to go deep into the Playoffs?

If any of the D3 Guru's that have run the power rankings for Waynesburg.  Where do they stand today? what is the probablility that the PAC gets two teams in for the first time ever?

My beloved Tomcats what a down year for them it has been.  1-4 in the PAC!

South Willy,

With the change of Joyner going to QB months ago.  How has he embraced the QB role?  Seems as if he had no qualms of taking the QB position over and really doing what was best for the team.  Joyner could of set more individual WR records this year if he would of stayed at the position.  THis really opens the door for Cruze to get in the ball more and by his senior year possibly break open all the WR records at Bethany. 

Now that last scenario isn't too bad!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on October 30, 2007, 08:24:45 AM
CC -- I was at the PAC game of the year last Saturday. If Waynesburg had a quarterback who could hit the broad side of a barn the outcome of this game would probably have been very different. 4 of 16 just doesn't win many ball games, although it came close in this instance. This was the first time I had seen Swallow play, he is quite efficient and darn near flawless, but W&J's ball control passing game is mind numbingly boring. Can this kid throw the ball downfield !?
The Greensburg newspaper last week referred to Mr. Heller as "Bo" Heller. Does anyone know if the folks in Monongahela know him by that moniker ? For a football star, "Bo" sure fits better than "Robert".
"GO BO !" Should be resounding through the hills of Greene County for the next three years and, yes, he is the real deal with super acceleration through any hole that presents itself and the speed to outrun virtually any defensive back who doesn't have the angle on him.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 30, 2007, 09:07:01 AM
CC, it's good to hear from you.

Joyner is a very good athlete and might have been special at QB if he had played 4 years. His weakness is he has absolutely no touch. Every pass is a rocket no matter the distance and he can't throw deep over the top. He's a streak passer, when he's on its great but when he's off, he's way off.

Last Sat, he completed 16 of 31 for 239 yds and at least 10 balls were diving cathces by WRs. He bounced balls all over the field, WRs saved him all day but his stats look good. Cruse had 5 catches for 80 yrds, 1TD and was on the turf for every catch.

Joyner is a senior and I don't think coaches are positive about backup QB's on the roster. BC having a solid building year and might get to 5-5 if we can surprise CMU this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on October 30, 2007, 10:45:15 AM
Glad to see your alive CC! Hope all is well!

I think W&J just needs to stay healthy and not turn the ball over. If they do this and play good defense they should be able to make a good run into the playoffs. One problem may be defending the run. They are going to see backs like Heller in the playoffs and unless they are able to jump on teams and get a big lead they are going to see teams running at them. They need to sturdy up the run defense and tackle better.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 30, 2007, 10:54:00 AM
CC while my email states the same starting letter and last name i can assure you i have never thrown a pass @ W&J. Chris Edwards happens to be a ex W&J QB but Wes is not Chris Edwards. I have caught passes from him but it was before the game and even warmups. He has the best arm in W&J history.

I agree that Waynesburg needs a QB but they have not had one since Dumm. I doubt recruiting wise they are going to bring in a good one with the offense that they RUN. No good High school QB is going to want to head to the burg and throw the ball 15 times when they can go up the road and throw it 40 times. I also think that if W&J scores the three times they turned the ball over either on downs or fumbles in the red zone the outcome is not as close. Woulda coulda shoulda great game that could have gone either way but went in favor of the Prez.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on October 30, 2007, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 11:03:15 AM
I was checking out the PAC stats this morning and came across this one:

RECEPTIONS/GAME    Team Cl  G  Rec  Yds TD Avg/C Rec/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Ian Tobin......         GRO  SR  8   60  315  0    5.2     7.50   25

I don't think I've ever seen a statline like this one.  60 catches is by far leading the PAC, but for just 315 yards and 5.2 YPC!  I know this isn't very important to anything, just thought that was a very odd stat.


Wow EC!!!  You've got wayyyyyyy too much time on your hands. 
Can you also tell me how many Minutes Jon Howson played in 2002 against Bethany or how many Time Outs Grove City called in 04' against Westminster?
Me and the rest of your FANCLUB feel neglected with all the time you spend looking up meaningless stats. >:(

Just kidding.  It a tough job, but someone has to do it.  ;)

As for the W&J vs WC game, the score really surprised me.  I didn't expect it to be that close, but the Prez showed their championship form and pulled out the win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2007, 07:02:36 AM
Two notes, Mad...

First, in high school, and earlier, Mr. Robert Heller was known as Bean.  I first met Heller when his PONY League team qualified and played in the PONY League World Series here.


Second:

1)  You're wondering if Swallow can throw downfield
2)  You were at the game Saturday.

Where were you standing that the reason W&J CHOSE not to throw downfield didn't occur to you?

20-30 mph winds, gusting stronger.  I don't know very many teams/quarterbacks that choose to throw it downfield with, or into, that....

Having said that, were you watching in the third quarter when Swallow and McCafferty hooked up for 37 yards on a great diving, fingertip snag by the WR?  Is that not downfield enough for you?

While Saturday's delivery may have been boring, W&J's ball-control passing attack IS what won the game.  The Presidents had the ball for 20 minutes of the second half.  That meant, while W&J was still trailing by 7, and later by 5, that Mr. Robert "Bean" Heller was on the sideline where his incredible explosiveness and speed couldn't hurt the Presidents at all. 

Boring?  Perhaps.  Successful?  Without question.  And isn't THAT what matters on Saturday afternoon?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on October 31, 2007, 08:51:27 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 30, 2007, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 11:03:15 AM
I was checking out the PAC stats this morning and came across this one:

RECEPTIONS/GAME    Team Cl  G  Rec  Yds TD Avg/C Rec/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Ian Tobin......         GRO  SR  8   60  315  0    5.2     7.50   25

I don't think I've ever seen a statline like this one.  60 catches is by far leading the PAC, but for just 315 yards and 5.2 YPC!  I know this isn't very important to anything, just thought that was a very odd stat.


Wow EC!!!  You've got wayyyyyyy too much time on your hands. 
Can you also tell me how many Minutes Jon Howson played in 2002 against Bethany or how many Time Outs Grove City called in 04' against Westminster?
Me and the rest of your FANCLUB feel neglected with all the time you spend looking up meaningless stats. >:(

Just kidding.  It a tough job, but someone has to do it.  ;)

As for the W&J vs WC game, the score really surprised me.  I didn't expect it to be that close, but the Prez showed their championship form and pulled out the win.

I also came across this stat about some really good D-lineman for Thiel, can't remember his name, but he was one of their greats.  But he was 0-4 against W&J. 

Fanclub is back.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2007, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2007, 05:27:58 PM
If any of the D3 Guru's that have run the power rankings for Waynesburg.  Where do they stand today? what is the probablility that the PAC gets two teams in for the first time ever?

Not the first time ever, Cartel.

2005--Thiel won the PAC title, beat Johns Hopkins, then lost to Bridgewater.
2005--Wash & Jeff lost in first round to Bridgewater
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2007, 01:54:08 PM
Bob,

Thanks for the correction.

Wesmantooth,

Way to bring up a solid QB that is not mentioned enough in Jeff Dumm.  He was the real deal for Waynesburg.  Sounds as if Heller is legit too.

I hope WJ and Waynesburg to make the playoffs and represent us PAC former players well.  My hat is off to all of these guys for doign what they have in the PAC this year. 

I am extremely impressed with the play of Waynesburg.  WJ alwyas seems to reload, but the rest of the conference rebuilds.  Waynesburg lost most of its offensive production last season and Shepas has them right on track in 2007. 
Best of Luck to Both teams hopefully in the Playoffs!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on October 31, 2007, 03:43:16 PM
Bob.  Thanks for filling us in on Mr. Bean's past life. BTW, how'd they make out in that PONY Series ?

I didn't mean to denigrate Bobby Swallow's performance Saturday. Perhaps you read past the compliments that I gave him. With regard to the wind, I do believe that it was at his back for at least two quarters, no ? Admittedly, I've only seen him play once, but I think I'd still take Chris Edwards if I had to pick between the two.

The ball control passing game was very effective, if not too exciting. Ordinarily one would assume that the predominately rushing team would control the ball, but when you've got a back who's ripping off  30 – 50 – 80 yard gains at a time, you're just not eating up enough of the clock per possession. Maybe Shepas should have told Bean to run 5 or 6 yards per carry and then fall down. That way, the final gun might have already gone off before the Prezdents finally went ahead with 7:29 left in the 4th quarter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2007, 04:54:40 PM
I believe Mon-Yough went 0-2 in the PLWS that year...

With or without Heller's runs, W&J held the ball in the second half.  Trailing 14-7, took opening kickoff and moved right up the field to tie the game.  Waynes. U, set up by long Heller run early in possession, re-took lead 21-14.

W&J moved well three straight possessions, but gave the ball up on downs three straight times, all ending on less than stellar Swallow passes, one at the WU 6, On at the WU 21, one at the WU 26.

W&J is fortunate to have won at all...and they should have won 40-ish to 21....

One of those games...

My point about the wind wasn't that he COULDN'T throw it.  As I'm sure you know, throwing with or against the wind ISN'T what you WANT to do with a precision passing game.  So they didn't.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2007, 04:57:06 PM
And one final point about W&J as a team, not just as individuals...

Waynesburg players were named Offensive (Heller) and Defensive (Andreassi) Players of the Week in the Conference.

And W&J won the game.  And even had the Presidents won the game 40-ish to 21 as I indicated above, those two players could still have won those awards...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on October 31, 2007, 08:27:43 PM
Looks like W&J is the number one team in the New south region poll after the UMHB loss. If they win out a number one seed looks like a very good possibility. From the sounds of it Waynesburg might be on the outside looking in from what i am reading on the playoff post. Waynesburg plays a very tough Geneva team this wk and might be in store for a let down after the gut wrenching defeat to the prez.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2007, 09:32:57 PM
In following up from Wes's post as it does seem that Waynesburg is on the outside looking in....

This week against Geneva if they lose it only hurts them, but if they win it wont hold any weight in the rankings.  It's just a blunder in Geneva still in conversion to D3 and the PAC.  That really is unfair to those kids at Waynesburg especially the seniors.  The only thing they could of done better was beat WJ. 

More and More teams and conferences will continue to go through transition and there should be a stipulation for the current d3 teams who have to play them because of conference scheduling.  I gurantee Shepas is getting his boys ready to play and to keep their focus, but honestly if this game truly does not count for much on their playoff implications.  d3 teams should ahve the ability to not play these converted teams until they are truly reconized as a d3 school, and the points will be meaningful for the entire picture. 

Correct me if i am wrong guru's  But a 9-1 Waynesburg team could be out of the playoff picture because of a WJ loss and a Geneva Victory that doesnt mean much for their power points. 

If Waynesburg wins out that is.  I am personally rooting for both teams but primarily Wayensburg as it seems even if they win Saturday the victory wont help them in the playoff picture, but a second loss would drop them out completely. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2007, 10:01:28 PM
The Geneva game only falls into the secondary criteria at most.

I would not worry about it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 01, 2007, 10:28:23 AM
Prediction Time:

Saturday, November 3

Saint Vincent at Grove City* - 1 p.m.

SVC is still looking for thier first win. GCC regained the Mercer Cup last time out with a victory against the Tomcats. I think this long year may even get longer for the visitors. I think the Wolverines have found a late spark in their season and it will continue this week at home.

GCC 35 SVC 14


Carnegie Mellon at Bethany – 1 p.m.

Bethany returns home after a good win vs a good TMC team. They face CMU who back to 500 after winning two in a row after dropping 4 close games in a row. Bethany's offense looks like it has worked out its kinks and the defense is playing much better. I am going to take the PAC team in a close one.

Bethany 35 CMU 34


Thiel at Westminster* - 1:30 p.m.

The Tomcats look to rebound against the struggling Titans. Westminster was able to win last week vs Frostburg to even their record at 4 - 4. While the Tomcats got a week off looking to find some answers. Knowing Coach Leip and his staff the Tomcats did some soul searching along with some hard work on the bye week to try and be 1-0 at 4 pm on Saturday. Hess and the Darkside will have good days in this battle.

Thiel 17 Westminster 13


Waynesburg at Geneva* - 1:30 p.m.

The Yellow Jackets look to rebound after a 1pt loss vs the Presidents. Heller is running on everyone and anyone in his way. He will find a formidable foe in Geneva this week. I think the Golden Tornadoes will find a vulnerable Waynesburg team that is still healing from last week's lost. Dispite 100 + yards and two TD's from Heller and a good effort from Czerwein, Steele, and Strothers on defense they lose a tough one.

Geneva 27 Waynesburg 21

Wash. & Jeff. at Thomas More*^ - 2:30 p.m.

W&J came from behind and showed character last week betting a good Waynesburg team. They struggled against the run and turned the ball over. TMC suffered a disappointing loss against Bethany. They need to get Collier more involved this week if they want to be in this game. W&J is on the road for 4 concecutive weeks which could lead to a let down. On the other hand they have Swallow, Matthews, and McCafferty which will create chaos for the Saint defense.

W&J 38 TMC 13

GOOD LUCK TO ALL PAC TEAMS!!!

GOOOO TOMCATSSSSSS!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 01, 2007, 11:23:01 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 31, 2007, 08:51:27 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 30, 2007, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 11:03:15 AM
I was checking out the PAC stats this morning and came across this one:

RECEPTIONS/GAME    Team Cl  G  Rec  Yds TD Avg/C Rec/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Ian Tobin......         GRO  SR  8   60  315  0    5.2     7.50   25

I don't think I've ever seen a statline like this one.  60 catches is by far leading the PAC, but for just 315 yards and 5.2 YPC!  I know this isn't very important to anything, just thought that was a very odd stat.


Wow EC!!!  You've got wayyyyyyy too much time on your hands. 
Can you also tell me how many Minutes Jon Howson played in 2002 against Bethany or how many Time Outs Grove City called in 04' against Westminster?
Me and the rest of your FANCLUB feel neglected with all the time you spend looking up meaningless stats. >:(

Just kidding.  It a tough job, but someone has to do it.  ;)

As for the W&J vs WC game, the score really surprised me.  I didn't expect it to be that close, but the Prez showed their championship form and pulled out the win.

I also came across this stat about some really good D-lineman for Thiel, can't remember his name, but he was one of their greats.  But he was 0-4 against W&J. 

Fanclub is back.

EC, GREAT COMEBACK. 
I think I know who u are talking about, so if u can't remember his name just ask ur Prez coaching staff, former Prez O-lineman, and QBs.  I pretty sure they remember him. ;D

P.S
I kinda feel bad for any Prez that played in 05' because they were the first team to loose to the Tomcats in about 20 years.  What year did you say you Graduated in?

Darkside90
Lifetime President of the EC WARRIOR FANCLUB
NOT!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 02, 2007, 08:54:14 AM
I am really loving the buzz that's going on. The game last Saturday was pretty good. The boyz in red and black held off a work horse in Heller to win the game. I am just worried about the presidents in the next two weeks, if and when they hold off the upset hopefuls in Thomas More and Bethany they will host every game until the travel to Alliance OH. But lets not get two far ahead, i still think that they need to finish up the season strong and correct anything that's been labeled a weakness for the presidents. Because as we know the teams down south in Texas have a pretty good track record against the Presidents. The running backs are faster and the linemen are larger. With saying that the game this weekend needs to be a Patriots type of victory. I need a score of 54-7. I do not think Coach Sirianni will do this because he is a classy coach, but in the same breath i think it needs to be done to keep momentum in the Presidents favor. 
Does Bethany's passing game represents a problem for the presidents next week?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 02, 2007, 09:17:50 AM
Well its time to get this weeks predictions in.

First off the game of the week the yellow jackets get this honor two weeks in a row because if they lose this weekend to Geneva they are done. The glass slipper will break and the Cinderella story will end tragically. But Waynesburg fans I do think that they will hold off a bigger team in Geneva and win this game by a TD
WC 24 GC 17

Next game will be the Bethany and the Carnegie Mellon, now with the momentum on the side of Bethany I think the Passing game will keep them in the game and have a build up story going into next weeks game against the Presidents which the Presidents have shut out three straight years, but back to the game the Bison's roll and rack up almost 450 yards of offense.
BC 31 CMC 21

We are now heading to the furthest game that the PAC has to travel; it's the W&J Thomas More game. The boys in red and black are going to sharpen their wits and put the ROCK smack down on the Saints. I look for Gitlitz to keep his streak domination going as he will have 17 tackles and an interception which he will not return for a touchdown but will set one up for the Offense. I look for the D-line to get after the young QB and hear the names of Jeff Ernst and Jake bloomhuff throughout the day. They will combine for 3.5 sacks and 4 TFL's. I look for N Schafe to keep the pep band going and bottles popping after the presidents win and secure their playoff birth.
W&J 52 TMC 7

Now for my upset of the week. I look for the mighty mighty Titans to take advantage of a banged up Thiel Tomcats team and win a very close game.
The final score will be decided on turnovers and Westminster will have the least of the two teams.
TC 13 WMC 14

For the final game of the week the Wolverines and Bearcats. I love the way the Bearcats play, they play to the whistle and do not ever give up. But they are going to finish the first year winless in the PAC and the Wolverines will be doing the wolverine dance as they will try to run the score up but the Bearcats will not let that happen.
GCC 24 SVC 14
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 02, 2007, 11:27:37 AM
Some predictions for the coming week.



Saint Vincent at Grove City

GCC rolls in this one. Ian Tobin has 10 receptions for 52 yards and two td's. Ian is a friend of mine and he is a wingback and they release him in the flats a lot and he gets a lot of check downs.  Didinato runs for two and throws for 3.

GCC 42 SVC 7

Carnegie Mellon at Bethany

Looks like everyone is picking the Bison this week. I disagree and am not totally sold on the Bison being that respectable yet. CMU is coming off an upset win over Wash U and the Sivek train runs through the Bison. Remember this was a playoff team last year who is having a tough time this year.

CMU 27 Bethany 10

Thiel at Westminster

This game will not be exciting at all. Defense rains supreme in this one and the first offense to make a play wins. I like Westminsters chances of making a play as they have some playmakers and an actual QB not a WR playing QB. Rosatelli scores two one on a punt return. Franz throws for for two. 

Westminster 21 Thiel 13

Waynesburg at Geneva

I was not sold on the burg but they proved me worng. I look for them to handle Geneva. Heller will run for 200 on 36 carries and three td's.

Waynesburg 27 Geneva 17

Wash. & Jeff. at Thomas More

TMC one game playoff is a laugher. SAINTSFAN everyone plays like its the playoffs against W&J ;D. Too young of a team to play with the prez. I look for Prez to play alot better as they did not play there best against the Yellow jackets.  Swallow throws for 4 td's and 300 yards. Jones and Mathews combine for 180 and two Td's.


W&J 42 TMC 20

Good luck to all

Go W&J

Big Ern and Saints enjoy that cold one at the tailgate. Ern i will see you next sat for sure i am pretty sure i will be at the Bethany game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2007, 12:15:29 PM
it may be a laugher, but its THAT point in the season for THOMAS MORE. 

W&J may be EVERYONE's playoff game.  But TMORE ends the season with TWO playoff participants.  Though not many playoffs allow you to lose the first and still play the 2nd .....We went 1-1 last year. 

bigern,

I'm going to give you my cellphone # offline here in a PM (don't want all you a$$holes to have it!!   ;D )

We need to find a place to meet tomorrow.. I can find you in the tailgate. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2007, 12:15:46 PM
also, Bob Gregg....where are you going to be prior to the game? 


as far as predictions....I predict that IF the hotel that W&J is staying at has a disruption in the middle of the night tonight, they'll be a little groggy tomorrow.

haha.....NO, I doubt this would happen.  I sure hope not, at least. 

I also predict that I'm going to be nursing a major hangover tomorrow morning....its been a chitty week at work and I'm ready to tie one on this weekend and paint the town BLUE and SILVER.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 02, 2007, 12:48:54 PM
Saints if you and Big Ern get together you are going to postpone the hangover to Sunday Morn as i can attest he can get it done. I recommend some of Kentucky's finest James Beam to cure your week it always works for me.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2007, 01:22:07 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2007, 12:15:46 PM
also, Bob Gregg....where are you going to be prior to the game? 



In my car, driving to the game.

Wash., PA departure--6 am!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2007, 02:20:04 PM
thats cutting it close. 

we'll probably just break into the radio booth during the 1st Quarter....

airtime for SaintsFAN!!!

and bigern. 

Wes,

I think I'd give bigern a run for his money.  Bakc when we played, we were given one night to drink (Saturday night) and believe me, you couldn't tell if we won or lost come 6pm on Saturday night. 

We'll see. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2007, 02:44:13 PM
Plenty of time, for breakfast, for setup, for chill out.

Then kickoff.

SaintsFan, make sure you come to the Press Box and intro yourself.

We've met bigern before, I think.  My guess is that he was a Presidents Football Preview guest at some point in his career...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2007, 06:23:00 PM
Bob,

Nice meeting you on Saturday. . . did you guys ever recover from the conversation I witnessed?  I don't really know what that was all about.  wow.

bigern,

Nice meeting you also, bro.  Did you enjoy the St. X win over Elder?  I lost phone reception on Saturday night.  I tried calling to no avail. . .


W&J, though they looked good, I don't think we saw Swallow at his best on Saturday.  The skill position players are very impressive with their ball skills, speed and toughness.  We had a heck of a time tackling.  I'm interested to see how far W&J can go.  The INT on the first play of the game was impressive as I thought for sure the db wasn't going to get to the ball before it hit the ground.  Not alot of positives from this one for the Saints, but I believe they are on the right path.  Its a young team, BUT I don't want to be saying this again next year.  Hilvert is going to bring in a great class and there's sure to be competition all over the roster. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2007, 01:38:49 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2007, 06:23:00 PM
W&J, though they looked good, I don't think we saw Swallow at his best on Saturday. 

I don't think anyone saw Swallow at his best over the four-game road trip.

Of course, I was in the band in High School, and the broadcast booth in college, so what do I know?

Seriously, the very good numbers Swallow has put up over the past five weeks are a definite step down from the first four weeks of the season.  Of course, when you efficiency rating is 240+, it's likely to come down.

But, Saintsfan, Swallow was 20-28 for 204 yds and 2 scores.
He could EASILY have been 24-28 (passes behind open recievers, particularly McCafferty across the middle).  And several of those immediately preceeded punts--1st two possessions of second half.

Swallow's alot like Pizza--When it's good, it's great.  When it's bad, it's still pretty good!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 05, 2007, 05:07:21 PM
Thiel vs Westminster Game,

I had heard over the weekend about a on the field fight that took place after the game on Saturday.  If anyone has any insight as to what happened and why it took place it would be helpful. 

Westmin and Thiel has never been known as a vicious rivalry but it may have just started! 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 06, 2007, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: Darkside90 on November 01, 2007, 11:23:01 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 31, 2007, 08:51:27 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 30, 2007, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 11:03:15 AM
I was checking out the PAC stats this morning and came across this one:

RECEPTIONS/GAME    Team Cl  G  Rec  Yds TD Avg/C Rec/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Ian Tobin......         GRO  SR  8   60  315  0    5.2     7.50   25

I don't think I've ever seen a statline like this one.  60 catches is by far leading the PAC, but for just 315 yards and 5.2 YPC!  I know this isn't very important to anything, just thought that was a very odd stat.


Wow EC!!!  You've got wayyyyyyy too much time on your hands. 
Can you also tell me how many Minutes Jon Howson played in 2002 against Bethany or how many Time Outs Grove City called in 04' against Westminster?
Me and the rest of your FANCLUB feel neglected with all the time you spend looking up meaningless stats. >:(

Just kidding.  It a tough job, but someone has to do it.  ;)

As for the W&J vs WC game, the score really surprised me.  I didn't expect it to be that close, but the Prez showed their championship form and pulled out the win.

I also came across this stat about some really good D-lineman for Thiel, can't remember his name, but he was one of their greats.  But he was 0-4 against W&J. 

Fanclub is back.

EC, GREAT COMEBACK. 
I think I know who u are talking about, so if u can't remember his name just ask ur Prez coaching staff, former Prez O-lineman, and QBs.  I pretty sure they remember him. ;D

P.S
I kinda feel bad for any Prez that played in 05' because they were the first team to loose to the Tomcats in about 20 years.  What year did you say you Graduated in?

Darkside90
Lifetime President of the EC WARRIOR FANCLUB
NOT!!!


I guess that says a lot about your program that you can brag about beating a team once in 20 years.  It's alright darkside, W&J is on to bigger things now. 

It seems as though some people think Bob Swallow hasn't been playing up to snuff recently.  I wasn't at the Waynesburg game, but heard the broadcast, and it did sound like he miss fired more than usual.  The big question is, does W&J have enough weapons to go deep in the playoffs if Bob doesn't get out of his "slump?" 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 06, 2007, 04:40:27 PM
EC,

WJ's road to the playoffs no matter if it is short lived or not always seems to go through Texas.  Can a slumping or an on fire Bobby Swallow get The Prez through Texas?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2007, 04:43:23 PM
If the Presidents win solidly on Saturday, there's a big question as to whether they'll have to go through Texas, or if Texas will have to go through Washington.

When tomorrow's rankings (the final public ones) come out, we'll "know" a little more about that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 06, 2007, 04:46:52 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2007, 04:43:23 PM
If the Presidents win solidly on Saturday, there's a big question as to whether they'll have to go through Texas, or if Texas will have to go through Washington.

When tomorrow's rankings (the final public ones) come out, we'll "know" a little more about that.

I think UMHB proved in 04 that the road trip didn't matter.  Although they may have been an exception, because that was one of the best football teams I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 06, 2007, 04:51:07 PM
Bob and EC,

No matter what.  They may have to get through a Texas Team to get to the STAGG Bowl.  As we have seen WJ roll through a regular season of PAC Play and get to the Playoffs.  Their achilles heal has primarily been a team from Texas.  At Home or away as EC stated it did not matter.

Atleast the Prez and their Alumn can say I've been there.  It holds credibility and I would rather have the experience of being there as opposed to at home in late november and Early December.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 06, 2007, 05:34:37 PM
UMHB in 2004 was ridiculus they were huge and fast even faster than W&J. probably the best running team in d3 history as they had 3 kids over 1000 rushing. W&J gets beat by Texas teams because first of all Texas has the best high school football in the country and they can pull talent from that huge pool. Also from what i witnessed they were bigger and faster than W&J. In the 1990's W&J could compete with that as they were just as big and strong as the Texas teams and thats why Burghboy and his boys were in the Stagg Bowl a few times. W&J now in comparison is a very good team with good speed but very small up front. Last years W&J team almost came out of texas with a win but ended up with a close loss to UMHB. The only thing that concerns me about the Prez is that Waynesburg game where they gave up 289 to one back. UMHB has two backs on the same level as Heller and that poses some concerns. W&J will have other games to worry about as i think that the South region is the most competitive region filled with lots of speed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 06, 2007, 05:51:48 PM
How about the Job former Thiel Offensive Coordinater John Marzka has done at Albright. 

This year they are 7-2 and 5-1 in the MAC.  The MAC includes teams such as Delaware Valley, Widener, and Wilkes all who have made the playoffs in the last four years.  Their only losses are to Salisbury ranked # 11 whose only defeat is to Wesley ranked #7 this year.  Their last lost just came last week at the hands of Widener who is receiving points (D3 football Poll) and needs to win out to be the conference champion.

Albright the year before was a 2-8 team and 5-5 in 2005.  Marzka took a team that wasn't predicted to be among the leagues best and had them Reaching Their Full Potential in 2007.

Best of Luck to Coach Marzka.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 06, 2007, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 06, 2007, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: Darkside90 on November 01, 2007, 11:23:01 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 31, 2007, 08:51:27 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on October 30, 2007, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on October 29, 2007, 11:03:15 AM
I was checking out the PAC stats this morning and came across this one:

RECEPTIONS/GAME    Team Cl  G  Rec  Yds TD Avg/C Rec/G Long
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Ian Tobin......         GRO  SR  8   60  315  0    5.2     7.50   25

I don't think I've ever seen a statline like this one.  60 catches is by far leading the PAC, but for just 315 yards and 5.2 YPC!  I know this isn't very important to anything, just thought that was a very odd stat.


Wow EC!!!  You've got wayyyyyyy too much time on your hands. 
Can you also tell me how many Minutes Jon Howson played in 2002 against Bethany or how many Time Outs Grove City called in 04' against Westminster?
Me and the rest of your FANCLUB feel neglected with all the time you spend looking up meaningless stats. >:(

Just kidding.  It a tough job, but someone has to do it.  ;)

As for the W&J vs WC game, the score really surprised me.  I didn't expect it to be that close, but the Prez showed their championship form and pulled out the win.

I also came across this stat about some really good D-lineman for Thiel, can't remember his name, but he was one of their greats.  But he was 0-4 against W&J. 

Fanclub is back.

EC, GREAT COMEBACK. 
I think I know who u are talking about, so if u can't remember his name just ask ur Prez coaching staff, former Prez O-lineman, and QBs.  I pretty sure they remember him. ;D

P.S
I kinda feel bad for any Prez that played in 05' because they were the first team to loose to the Tomcats in about 20 years.  What year did you say you Graduated in?

Darkside90
Lifetime President of the EC WARRIOR FANCLUB
NOT!!!


I guess that says a lot about your program that you can brag about beating a team once in 20 years.  It's alright darkside, W&J is on to bigger things now. 

It seems as though some people think Bob Swallow hasn't been playing up to snuff recently.  I wasn't at the Waynesburg game, but heard the broadcast, and it did sound like he miss fired more than usual.  The big question is, does W&J have enough weapons to go deep in the playoffs if Bob doesn't get out of his "slump?" 


Don't CRY EC :'(!!!  It's JUST football

As for your President's, Bobby Swallow isn't the biggest factor in how far W&J will go in the playoffs, the DEFENSE is.  Other W&J QB's have shown that scoring a bunch of points will only get you so far.  B.S has already shown he can perform in the playoffs, and he will do what his predecessors did and put up the POINTS.  The question isn't whether the Prez have enough weapons on O, it's whether the D can do their part. 
We'll see!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 07, 2007, 09:01:10 AM
And based on Hellers stats, the D needs to play a lot better.  You better believe if a Texas team comes to WashPa and has an RB run for 289, they will put up more than the 21 points Waynesburg did.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2007, 01:33:43 PM
man, this board has kind of died down a bit. 


Look for Thomas More to play well on Saturday against playoff-hopeful Mount St. Joe.  The Lions are 8-1 coming into this game and with a win will be considered for a Pool C berth.   This will be a VERY hostile environment given that Coach Hilvert had led MSJ's defense previous to coming to TMC.  His players loved playing for him.

I like the fact that we play in a rugged conference (at least more so than the HCAC) and playing against teams like Geneva, Thiel, Waynesburg and W&J....not to mention Grove City and Bethany will have us ready for the challenge at MSJ on Saturday. 

Who are the teams to watch for next year?  Besides W&J, who should be damn good again. 

Bob,  I want to see a TX team come up here and have W&J beat them.  Go PAC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2007, 01:34:56 PM
Cartel,

Is it possible that Marzaka was responsible for more of Thiel's winning than anyone had realized? 

I believe its a fair question. .
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 07, 2007, 02:08:06 PM
For Thiel's sake, they better hope it's just a down year. 

South Willy, since Bethany's offense is obviously much better than past years, do you think this is the year they break the no TD streak against W&J?  I look for them to get a few more yards and points than people think they will.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2007, 03:33:46 PM
EC,

Great Point on WJ reaching the playoffs at home vs a Texas team.  If they have a RB run for 289 plus they will put up more than 21.  Maybe that is a true testament to the Bend but dont break Defense.  I wasn't at the game so i can not accuratly describe the reasons that Waynesburg only put up 21 on WJ.  Obviously The D coordinator for WJ knows his talent and what they can and can't do.  He may have felt as if shutting down Heller was not an option and they better hope to contain him esepcially in the redzone and not give up 7 points all the time. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 07, 2007, 03:45:48 PM
Saints fan,

I would say that is an accurate statement.  Marzka was an O-Lineman in his playing days but he is a football guru and junkie.  They man spent his time learning systems and had a talented mentor in Ken O Keefe who is now the Offensive Coordinator and Quarterbacks coach at Iowa.  O'keefe made QB Brad Banks an all american in 2002 at Iowa. and also had the talented Drew Tate who set numerous passing records at Iowa.

Marzka is very saavy knows how to keep a defense off balance, when to utilize trickery, and was able to assist the Quarterbacks in their form and reconizing the formations.  He is hard nosed and will not accept anything less than perfection from his ball players.  He will instill the same values that Leip and O keefe have rooted into Marzka at Albright.  Albright hired the right man for the job.
It may take just one year for Thiel's new signal caller to get the weapons and to get into the flow of the game for Thiel's beloved Victory Bell to be ringing multiple times on Saturday Afternoons.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2007, 04:08:13 PM
When a team is as one-dimensional as Waynesburg is, designing a defensive gameplan is centered around stopping the RB or at least containing him. 

W&J did what they had to do, and I would venture to say they won't see another team with one player that serves as their entire offense.  I think had W&J jumped on Waynesburg early like they did Thomas More, you would have seen less of Heller.
In the game I saw, their defense played well against Thomas More who has Collier at RB and a decent pass game.   Each game played is about the ebs and flows of that particular game.  Its why you see the upsets that catch the headlines...

Sounds like Geneva really focused on stopping Heller and dared the Waynesburg QB to beat them.  Waynesburg coaching is guilty of going through the season and not developing a successful play-action pass game to keep defenses more honest than they have to be. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 07, 2007, 04:33:11 PM
I've heard from several people that if Waynesburg has an average QB, they beat W&J.  That's probably the reason for only scoring 21.  Believe me, the W&J defense did not come in with a bend but don't break attitude/gameplan.  Their goal was to shut him down.  Give Heller all the credit, he almost won that game himself.  I also think that if W&J would have jumped on Waynesburg early, Heller would still get close to 30 carries.  There just isn't anyone else.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2007, 01:33:43 PM
Bob,  I want to see a TX team come up here and have W&J beat them.  Go PAC.
Saints fan, we in Texas are wondering that again this year.

W&J is the enigma in the South, for those of us on this side of the region.

26Nov06 -- W&J (10-2/6-0) at UMHB 27-30, and W&J scored with less than minute to play.

04Dec04 -- #5 W&J (12-1/5-0), hosting UMHB, loses 16-52.

30Nov02 -- W&J (9-3/5-0) loses at Trinity, 10-45.

27Nov99 -- W&J (9-3/5-0) loses at HSU, 3-51.

Either "Texas" has W&J's number (like Wesley has had UMHB's) or the Presidents AC is not as strong as some would think.  This is another year, so I think that W&J should meet UMHB in the Regional Finals, if both make it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 06:52:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2007, 01:33:43 PM
Bob,  I want to see a TX team come up here and have W&J beat them.  Go PAC.
Saints fan, we in Texas are wondering that again this year.

W&J is the enigma in the South, for those of us on this side of the region.

26Nov06 -- W&J (10-2/6-0) at UMHB 27-30, and W&J scored with less than minute to play.

04Dec04 -- #5 W&J (12-1/5-0), hosting UMHB, loses 16-52.

30Nov02 -- W&J (9-3/5-0) loses at Trinity, 10-45.

27Nov99 -- W&J (9-3/5-0) loses at HSU, 3-51.

Either "Texas" has W&J's number (like Wesley has had UMHB's) or the Presidents AC is not as strong as some would think.  This is another year, so I think that W&J should meet UMHB in the Regional Finals, if both make it.

midNov94 -- W&J (8-1) wins at Trinity, 28-0

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 07:05:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 06:52:11 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2007, 01:33:43 PM
Bob,  I want to see a TX team come up here and have W&J beat them.  Go PAC.
Saints fan, we in Texas are wondering that again this year.

W&J is the enigma in the South, for those of us on this side of the region.

26Nov06 -- W&J (10-2/6-0) at UMHB 27-30, and W&J scored with less than minute to play.

04Dec04 -- #5 W&J (12-1/5-0), hosting UMHB, loses 16-52.

30Nov02 -- W&J (9-3/5-0) loses at Trinity, 10-45.

27Nov99 -- W&J (9-3/5-0) loses at HSU, 3-51.

Either "Texas" has W&J's number (like Wesley has had UMHB's) or the Presidents AC is not as strong as some would think.  This is another year, so I think that W&J should meet UMHB in the Regional Finals, if both make it.

midNov94 -- W&J (8-1) wins at Trinity, 28-0
C'mon Bob!  The next most relevant score in W&J ancient history is,

W&J 0, California Bears 0, in the 1922 Rose Bowl.

Here are three philosophical questions of profound importance.

1)  If a husband says something intelligent and his wife doesn't hear it, does it count?

2)  If a tree falls in the forest... blah,blah, blah...

3)  Was there D3football before D3football.com?     :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 09:11:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 07:05:01 PM
3)  Was there D3football before D3football.com?     :)

Absolutely.  Even if I'm the only person around these parts old enough to remember it, and, at the exact same time, not TOO old to remember it...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 09:14:19 PM
The answers to your other questions, Ralph:

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 07:05:01 PM

1)  If a husband says something intelligent and his wife doesn't hear it, does it count?
It doesn't matter.  She wouldn't grant that it was intelligent, even if she heard it.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 07:05:01 PM

2)  If a tree falls in the forest... blah,blah, blah...
Sound is sound, even if no one hears it.
See profound question #1...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2007, 08:29:59 AM
Ralph,

OK, I'm going to share what I know about Texas football.   Ready?


Howard Payne 30---Thomas More 18    1996

Thats about all I remember also....

has W&J stumbled against the TX teams?  Yep.  I believe that those scores you cited are as relative as my 1996 HPU score.  New year.....lets see how it goes. 

Bob,

And my (ex) wife....didn't hear me when I told her that I couldn't stand the person she was.   They don't hear much. .
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 08, 2007, 08:55:14 AM
You guys are making me more of a believer that I should not get hitched!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2007, 08:58:35 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2007, 08:29:59 AM

Has W&J stumbled against the TX teams?  Yep.  I believe that those scores you cited are as relative as my 1996 HPU score.  New year.....lets see how it goes. 

That is why I called it an enigma.  For the last decade, we have seen W&J perform that way.

But, it is a new year. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 09:00:07 AM
Fan, Cartel,

My (VERY SOON TO BE EX-) wife never heard me either.

Somehow, I couldn't get her to understand that High Schools and Colleges are not all that interested in scheduling their athletic events between 8:30 am and 4:55 pm Monday through Friday.

Now, I just have to make sure I get to keep the T-V...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 09:01:01 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 08, 2007, 08:55:14 AM
You guys are making me more of a believer that I should not get hitched!



Here's my only advice about getting hitched, Cartel...

Don't marry someone you can live with.

Only marry someone you can't live without!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 08, 2007, 09:43:55 AM
EC...

Bethany has showed steady improvement this season but they are really banged up going into the W & J game. Several key injuries on both sides of the ball. Cruse won't play this week and the offense seems to grind to a halt when he's out. Thiel had an off year but in the BC game with Cruse injured, Thiel beat BC badly with BC QBs going 3-18-2 for like 23 yds. Same thing happened in 2006 at Wesminster.

I hope BC is respectable this week but it could get ugly unless W & J backs off early.

I'm looking forward to even better results for BC in 2008.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2007, 10:58:05 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 09:01:01 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 08, 2007, 08:55:14 AM
You guys are making me more of a believer that I should not get hitched!



Here's my only advice about getting hitched, Cartel...

Don't marry someone you can live with.

Only marry someone you can't live without!

Agreed here... Cartel, you can look at what Bob said about the TV (probably all he'll get if PA isn't a "no fault" state....and my experience that it anger you that she automatically gets "half".   Or you could just be unhappily married like a few of my friends. 

Good luck none-the-less. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 08, 2007, 01:04:20 PM
I heard Darkside and Bigern's relationship is on the rocks as well.  I hope those two can work it out, for the kids sake.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 08, 2007, 05:51:24 PM
Bob, SaintsFan,

Man sounds depressing!  Good Luck with everything Bob...I hope you dont get taken to the Cleaners!

EC,

I think BigErn and PittTCBW broke up first and then Darkside and BigErn were trying to possibly work on something and that went sour as well.


Bob,
Any predictions as to where the chips will fall for WJ?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 08, 2007, 05:52:29 PM
Bob,

I hope that TV wasn't a newly purchased Plasma or LCD HDTV???

Thats yours all the way for football watching!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 08:34:28 PM
I'll be fine, and so will she.  We just grew apart.

And, part of that growing apart would be the absolute, total lack of appreciation for the clarity and crispness of student athletes plying their trade on a plasma or LCD HDTV...  Just doesn't understand.  So, no, the tv wasn't newly purchased, a plasma, or LCD HDTV...

Plain old-fashioned tube-type TV.  It does have a remote, however.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2007, 07:57:40 AM
Bob,

Well now, at least, you'll be able to move on up as they say....that is, if that sort of thing interests you.

You have a pretty good Saturday gig going on now as it is. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 09, 2007, 09:32:40 AM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 08, 2007, 01:04:20 PM
I heard Darkside and Bigern's relationship is on the rocks as well.  I hope those two can work it out, for the kids sake.

Yeah as for darkside and I we are officially over. He does not interest me anymore. When I talk to him all he talks about is the past and that's not me. I like a person who can talk about the present and future. I do not like a person who brags about one highlight in his life. I think he is opening a new post pattern site where all they talk about on there is highlights from there one year of glory and all high school stats. I encourage everyone to check it out. Darkside is also coming out with a movie this fall called Miracle on the field, a spin off of miracle on Ice. Its a action packed film with necessary roughness twist (all the loses he suffered in college). The film also has glimpses of the original movie when Thiel gets there first PAC championship the announcer screams "Do you believe in miracles" So i think that will be out just in time for Christmas.  Its a good chance for Darkside to capture the moment for a lifetime in case the post pattern site does not workout.

Saint it was nice to see you last week. I wish those flash light cops would have let us drink a little bit more in the parking lot. No worries though i will be making up for that this weekend when I finally get back to Cameron Field. Did you get your car fixed?

I will be back later with some predictions. Does anyone think that there is still any chance for Waynesburg to get in the playoffs? How did they lose last week?

Also what do people think about W&J hosting a couple of playoff games if they win Saturday? Would anyone attend on here?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 09, 2007, 10:06:55 AM
Busy Week!

Here are the predictions:

Saturday, November 10

Bethany at Washington & Jefferson* - 1:30 p.m.

W&J returns home after a long road trip to find Bethany who lost last week to CMU. W&J's offense and defense got back on track last week against TMC. I think this is a tune up for the Presidents as they look to be a well oiled machine on both sides of the ball heading into the playoffs. I think Swallow will get back on track this week with a big game in WashPA.

W&J 51 Bethany 6

Grove City at Geneva* - 1:30 p.m.

GCC is playing some better football late in the year. Geneva almost blew a big lead last week and took overtime to finally sting the Yellow Jackets. GCC is in for a rude awakening this week. I don't think they will be able to score points or shutout the Golden Tornadoes. Geneva looks to cap off thier season with a win at home and make a statement in the PAC.

Geneva 26 GCC 7

Thiel at Saint Vincent* - 1:30 p.m.

Thiel's season has been not what the Tomcats expected. SVC is looking for thier first win in thier finale. I think the Tomcats will finish the season on a positive not while SVC comes close to thier first win but just can't old off the Tomcats.

Thiel 21 SVC 13

Westminster at Waynesburg* - 1:30 p.m.

Waynesburg went from on top of the world to searching for answers as their come from behind attempt crashed in overtime. Heller was held to 102 yards on the ground. He will have alot more success this week and the Yellow Jackets will win thier home game against the Titans. Westminster has had a roller coaster ride of a season to date unfortunatly it ends with a crash.

Waynesburg 34 Westminster 20

Thomas More at Mount St. Joseph – 1:30 p.m.

TMC tries to rebound from the invasion of the Presidents. They visit Mount St. Joseph. They send out Collier and the rest of the senior Saints on top.

TMC 24 Mount St. Joseph 17

GOOD LUCK TO ALL TEAMS!!!

Seniors this will probably be your last game leave it all on the field and soak in the moment because you will remember your last game forever.

GO TOMCATS!!! Finish Strong!!!

Thomas More at Mount St. Joseph – 1:30 p.m.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2007, 10:59:37 AM
bigern,

Nope.  Its still a mess.  Luckily I live in a neighborhood where there's a bunch of guys that work here with me.  Though, I'm going to look at a Grand Cherokee today. 

If I had wheels right now, I'd be interested in coming up....but doesn't look too good. 

I thought your buddy I met was going to make up for the both of you.  Grain huh?

Pitt,

Collier isn't a senior.  We have two more years of him. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 11, 2007, 10:31:32 PM
Very quiet on the site.

BC total offense over 500 yds without top Wr & both top backs. Doesn't bode well for Pres playoff run.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 11, 2007, 11:54:16 PM
South good points but i think it is hard to think even with those guys out they still would have outdone the 600 yards they put up. Maybe but good building block for the Bison. Prez defense is terrible and has been for a long time. I cannot give a reason as i think Klein is a very good D cord he just may not have the players to work with. The O will always pull the best players and the D may get the left over recruits. I look for the Prez to rebound as its play off time and its a whole new world. I think they win the first round in a shootout as NC Weslyan looks like a better version of Bethany with a Mobile QB who can throw. Looks like a second round match up with UMHB again that does not bode well. How does UMHB get dropped to a 4 seed when there only loss albeit a blow out was to the D3 runner ups from the last two years. You could argue that they should be the #1 seed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2007, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Wes Mantooth on November 11, 2007, 11:54:16 PM
...How does UMHB get dropped to a 4 seed when there only loss albeit a blow out was to the D3 runner ups from the last two years? ...
Because the objective criteria make W&J, Wesley and Muhlenberg that much stronger.

I think that UMHB re-focused after their UWW game.  I know that I am glad that McMurry played them before UWW.

Since then, the CRU has played with more purpose.  The 52-man roster will get some much needed 4th quarter playing time for the starters in the early rounds.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 12, 2007, 01:49:51 AM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 08, 2007, 01:04:20 PM
I heard Darkside and Bigern's relationship is on the rocks as well.  I hope those two can work it out, for the kids sake.

Dear Son,

I'm sorry me and ur Mother Smallern didn't get along!!!  Things were rocky from the start with me constantly beating up on her and her Offensive Linewomen friends.  I found out she was cheating on me with two different guys, I think their names were Dawson and Edwards.  And when I tried to confront them she and her LineWomen tried to Block me with no success.  With the help of some friends from work I proceeded to Physically harass and continually abuse those guys for a few years.  In addition to the cheating, your mother wasn't  very successful at her job.  Even though she worked for a SUCCESSFUL company she was only an INSIGNIFICANT employee, which is probably why she is so Bitter.  >:(
As for U, SON I'm proud of the career you had and I hope you move on to bigger and better things with your FANCLUB!!

P.S
I'm not 100% sure I'm your real father, but I still love you anyway.

Your Father ;)
DARKSIDE90
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 12, 2007, 01:55:33 AM
CONGRATS to my TOMCATS for the victory!!!!  Offensively, they were very impressive, and on defense they made a lot of play.  Special congrats to Chris Lorber who finishes his career 2nd all time in SACKS and 3rd in TKLS for Loss.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bigerneatsboogers on November 12, 2007, 11:38:44 AM
bigern- if dubj wins their 1st round i'll def be in for the 2nd round matchup, i'll be in cbus this weekend so y don't u text a brother some updates as the game goes along eh?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 12, 2007, 01:33:55 PM
South Willy,

Great Offensive day for the Bisons's, but if you look at Bethany as a whole vs the conference over the last few years they have alwyas put up points.  Better luck next year does not sit well with anyone after five years.  All though Cruze will be back and the kid is a Diamond in the Rough for the Bisons. 

True it might not bode well for the Prez in the playoffs, but that does not bode well for the Bison's for the future.  Their defense has never been there and we have been hearing Bison's talk for several years now.  If WJ can not get the personel on Defense every year, I can say confidentaly Bethany will not be defying those odds. 

Should Cruze relocate to WJ to play a little pitch and Catch with Bobby Swallow?  That would be a formidable Duo along with the rest of the fine offensive players WJ has.

Good luck to WJ in the playoffs!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 12, 2007, 03:27:19 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 12, 2007, 01:33:55 PM
South Willy,

Great Offensive day for the Bisons's, but if you look at Bethany as a whole vs the conference over the last few years they have alwyas put up points.  Better luck next year does not sit well with anyone after five years.  All though Cruze will be back and the kid is a Diamond in the Rough for the Bisons. 

True it might not bode well for the Prez in the playoffs, but that does not bode well for the Bison's for the future.  Their defense has never been there and we have been hearing Bison's talk for several years now.  If WJ can not get the personel on Defense every year, I can say confidentaly Bethany will not be defying those odds. 

Should Cruze relocate to WJ to play a little pitch and Catch with Bobby Swallow?  That would be a formidable Duo along with the rest of the fine offensive players WJ has.

Good luck to WJ in the playoffs!



Only if he wants to play defense.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 13, 2007, 01:31:41 PM
EC...

Why would he need to play defense at W & J????

If he played with a QB that completed 69% of his passes on a playoff caliber team, his stats would be at All-American levels. Its interesting that 1st team PAC receivers (SRs) have weaker stats than Cruse who only played 8 games due to injury.

PS...But if it would help, Cruse could easily improve your safety play. BC might want to think about some athletes of the defenssive side.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 13, 2007, 01:41:16 PM
CC...

I agree with you completly. The defensive side of the ball is a real problem for Bison and it will be difficult to improve short term with incoming freshman. Linebackers were all seniors but most staters return, hopefully stronger, quicker, better. Also, only two seniors on offense are gone.

I was an on and off season for Bison but overall team played more competitive so we moved in the right direction.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PittTBCW on November 13, 2007, 01:49:54 PM
Congrats to my Tomcats on finishing the season strong!

Nice effort put out there by Hess and the O Line of the Tomcats as they paved the way for a record setting day on the ground.

Congrats to Waynesburg, W&J, and Geneva on postseason games!

I wish the Presidents good luck in representing the PAC in playoff action!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2007, 12:23:40 PM
South Willy,

I think he was being nice in saying they already have the types of receivers they need at W&J. 

Isn't Bethany and W&J's offensive STYLE different?  IE...West Coast vs. Vertical? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2007, 12:53:19 PM
THIS WEEK, THIS YEAR, the question to be answered by the W&J team is:

Can the offense score enough to cover what the defense allows?  The defense has to improve the play, or the exit will be shy of the region final.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 14, 2007, 01:21:45 PM
Saints fan....That's probably true on the offenses but I think he would be better suited to a more vertical offense with his size and sprinter speed.

I hope W & J goes several rounds in the playoffs but last Saturday's defense wouldn't get them out of the PAC. I would agree with the statement that if Waynesburg had a QB, they would be our playoff team.

Interesting that BC held Heller to 130 yds and the QB threw all over the field against us but WC receivers were singled all day.

On to track and a shot at the NCAA D3 hurdle finals.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 14, 2007, 01:35:06 PM
Here is another question if The burg had a QB would Heller have 2000 yards im going with a big negative. I also think if Waynesburg wins that game they are both in the playoffs. South Good luck in the hurdles for your boy im a big track guy myself back in the day but not the hurdles. Shot putting was my thing.

The prez are going to have a shoot out this wkend with NCWC. They give up close to 300 yards but average close to 400 on offense. The QB looks like a Vince Young clone 6-5 and lanky and will cause trouble. Should be a good game that i will be attending based on the weather. Big Ern we need to get it done ill be in touch. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 14, 2007, 01:46:48 PM
Pat, when are the team by team capsules coming out? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 14, 2007, 03:59:36 PM
Also in a earlier post i commented on the defense being terrible and been so for a while. That may have been my frustration with them giving up points to Bethany and was in no way an attack on the current players. A few of the current players that are seniors on defense are friends of mine. At the same time over the years the defense has given up some points especially in the playoffs. We have had some great defensive players the past few years like EC, Pilato, Field, Cherish, and now Gitlitz but still give up points and the O has always been able to outscore the opponent and pull out a few wins. I hope lil Ern and Gitlitz get after Townsend this week end and put the smack down so Swallow and the Dawgs can put some points on the board
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 15, 2007, 04:56:37 PM
Well well the playoffs are finally here, but will it be here for long is the question. (dark i do not have time to play little games with you anymore because we are talking playoffs, something you know nothing about). I am excited for the game this weekend. Wes bring some brew son because i am starting to tailgate about 930. I will have three other peeps with me also will have some corn hole action to help pass some time. Now back to the game, Mike Sirianni is a game day guru when it comes to the playoffs. I am sure he is taking a dump and thinking of what plays he can run. I remember Mike saying to our team all you got to do is win four games in the playoffs and i will win the last one, but i will give mike credit he did more than help us win one playoff game but two. My guess is Mike is going to have to the same exact thing here with this years team. With the defense struggling i look for Mike to hold the Ball, change the speeds of his offense. I look for one series for them to go no huddle all the way down the field then maybe the next huddle after every play. Mike is pretty good at clock management. If and when he gets a lead look for the boys on Offense to hold the ball and play keep away from the Talented QB at N.C.

Now for the defense, i hope Klien can get his boys in position to play with the speed of N.C. The Presidents play a pretty gap sound defense, but if one person does not get to their gap responsibility then it could be a lot of turning around and chasing the speedy offense of N.C. I hope the black hole defense can turn into a bend don't break kind of defense this weekend. The defense will go as far as the three Captains on D will take them. Ryan Mullen, Todd Keenan, and Jeff Ernst. The Seniors got to realize that this could be the last time they ever strap on the pads again and better play like it or they will all be home for Thanksgiving, (i love you Jeff but i rather have turkey in Wash Pa).

Now the special teams this week will be the biggest decider for the game. I have scene every team just about break one against us this year. I think its time for the Boom squad to start living up to their name. With the 54 man roster there will be a lot of starters that will have to be on these teams. I look for a large improvement on kickoff and kickoff return. Because all i get flash backs of is the MHB game in 2004 when they blocked and ran back punts, Bridgewater that year also had a kick off return to the house. I would love to see a blocked punt and a big turnover on kickoff. CHUCK JUST KICK THE BALL OUT OF THE ENDZONE.

Dirty dog text me your number my phone broke and i do not have your number in it.

I think their will be a lot of players making big things happening this weekend. Gitlitz will have 15 tackles one sack and one interception. I also look for the d-line to contain the Vick like qb and shock the playoff scene with a total of 4.5 sacks for the game. >:(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 15, 2007, 05:23:52 PM
I heard Pat Coleman's prediction of W&J being the South's biggest disappointment is hanging up in the locker room.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2007, 05:38:24 PM
Probably not the first time. But they better save the emotion for next week -- that's when they'll need it.

Here's an open reminder that a pick to disappoint doesn't mean a first-round loss. So when W&J wins this Saturday, I hope we don't hear from them in the newspaper that we picked them to lose, like we heard in 2004.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 15, 2007, 08:49:19 PM
Pat i like the confidence in their ability to win this weekend, as it is at least some confidence in W&J. I think NCWC is by far the best 8 seed in the entire bracket. They gave Wesley and Widner all they could handle. Wesley is also a team that has pounded UMHB the last two years. W&J is going to be in for a battle. I am going to throw my prediction out there tonight.

W&J 42 NCWC 31

Swallow and the Dawgs put points up all day while the D stops NC enough to host UMHB next weekend. Todd Young better hit the bench press as there will be plenty of chest bumping this weekend. Big Ern myself and couple of my friends will be down lets light it up. Also has anyone beat the world record walkie talkie toss at Cameron stadium yet or does Chris Mosely still hold the record. Thats all till after the game.

Roll Prez Roll
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2007, 10:41:20 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 15, 2007, 05:23:52 PM
I heard Pat Coleman's prediction of W&J being the South's biggest disappointment is hanging up in the locker room.
As an ASC fan, how will the W&J players and fans view these playoffs in any other way, but a huge disappointment if the Presidents don't make the Semi-finals?

After all, you are the #1 seed!

Would it be the big South Region disappointment for the UMHB not to make the semi-finals?  Not necessarily as the #4 seed.  And it is a Texas shootout against Trinity, regardless of the form chart!

Would it be a disappointment for Muhlenberg not to make the Semis?  No!  The Centennial will not have been that close to the Semis in years!  The Mules in having a "once-in-a-century" season!

Wesley is down a bit from 2005 and 2006 and would have beat W&J on the road.  Only as the #2 choice of a disappointment, if W&J won.

Salisbury, HSC, NCWC and Trinity are glad to be playing in week#12!

Following the logic out, the only choice to disappoint is W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2007, 09:09:18 AM
Based on the much more knowledgable D3football.com pollsters, UMHB not making the national semifinals would be the greatest disappointment out of the South Region.

According to the same wizards, Wesley not making the national semifinals would be a greater disappointment than W&J.

Or, perhaps, NOW we'll base the disappointment factor on the NCAA committee and THEIR rankings.

Somewhere, sometime, somebody changed their minds...again!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2007, 10:02:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2007, 05:38:24 PM
Here's an open reminder that a pick to disappoint doesn't mean a first-round loss. So when W&J wins this Saturday, I hope we don't hear from them in the newspaper that we picked them to lose, like we heard in 2004.



Um, Pat, one of your guys did (pick W&J to lose) considering Bridgewater and W&J played in the first round...



"Champion
Keith: Forced to choose, I like Bridgewater's playoff experience and the fact that they were tested early in the season and perhaps worked out the kinks since then."



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 16, 2007, 04:37:53 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2007, 10:02:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2007, 05:38:24 PM
Here's an open reminder that a pick to disappoint doesn't mean a first-round loss. So when W&J wins this Saturday, I hope we don't hear from them in the newspaper that we picked them to lose, like we heard in 2004.



Um, Pat, one of your guys did (pick W&J to lose) considering Bridgewater and W&J played in the first round…



"Champion
Keith: Forced to choose, I like Bridgewater’s playoff experience and the fact that they were tested early in the season and perhaps worked out the kinks since then."





Nice job Bob, I like that you are on top of your game coming into the game Saturday. As for you Pat either way you look at it in 2004 we took the words as motivation. No thought we would have made it that far into the playoffs. NO ONE BUT US. We still had people doubting us against CNU, but once again we won. It's nothing personal we just like to prove people wrong, so once again W&J is not predicted to win the south we hope to prove people wrong once again. First thing first W&J has to take care of business this weekend and that's the bottom line. Pat we love your insight and most of the time your right on. All it is anyways is just predictions the boys have to go out there and DO WORK not the writers.

With that being said W&J will win a shoot out this weekend 110-97. This will look like an NBA score when it is all said and done. All joking aside W&J wins 35-24. The Presidents have to do to NCWC Qb what the wildcats did to Dixon last night, sad to say but if their qb is out or at least pressured a lot W&J can cause mistakes and win the football game. I look for BOBBY SWALLOW TO HAVE A GREAT GAME AND GET DARKSIDE TO START SELLING SWALLOWS GAMES TOWELLS ON THE INTERNET AFTER THIS WIN.


Wes lets get it done and act college on Saturday
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 16, 2007, 04:38:32 PM
Why is it my Karma points keep going down this is BULL CRAP
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2007, 09:17:05 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2007, 10:02:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2007, 05:38:24 PM
Here's an open reminder that a pick to disappoint doesn't mean a first-round loss. So when W&J wins this Saturday, I hope we don't hear from them in the newspaper that we picked them to lose, like we heard in 2004.



Um, Pat, one of your guys did (pick W&J to lose) considering Bridgewater and W&J played in the first round...



"Champion
Keith: Forced to choose, I like Bridgewater's playoff experience and the fact that they were tested early in the season and perhaps worked out the kinks since then."

Yes, sir. That's not the same as "D3football.com picked us to lose," though, Bob. It's not the opinion of the site and it's not even the majority opinion on Triple-Take. And Keith is not only entitled to his own opinion, it was posted after I made my post.

Why so combative this year, Bob? Did we do something to you?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2007, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2007, 09:17:05 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2007, 10:02:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2007, 05:38:24 PM
So when W&J wins this Saturday, I hope we don't hear from them in the newspaper that we picked them to lose, like we heard in 2004.

Um, Pat, one of your guys did (pick W&J to lose) considering Bridgewater and W&J played in the first round...


"Champion
Keith: Forced to choose, I like Bridgewater's playoff experience and the fact that they were tested early in the season and perhaps worked out the kinks since then."

Yes, sir. That's not the same as "D3football.com picked us to lose," though, Bob. It's not the opinion of the site and it's not even the majority opinion on Triple-Take. And Keith is not only entitled to his own opinion, it was posted after I made my post.

Why so combative this year, Bob? Did we do something to you?

Just looking for accuracy, Pat.  And when I posted inaccurately yesterday, I acknowledged, apologized and re-doubled my efforts to not repeat that mistake.

Keith's quoted comments (above) are from the 2004 Our playoff surprises, disappointments column.  Keith, Pat, Gordon all posted together.  Those are well before your Post Pattern comments on THIS year's team.

in 2004, Bridgewater played W&J in the first round, and Keith picked Bridgewater as the 2004 regional champion, that required W&J to lose to Bridgewater.  So, yes, Keith (for d3football.com) picked W&J to lose in the opening round.

"We" is whom when it comes to d3football.com?  Pat, Keith, Gordon, right?  This was a three-writer column on D3football.com, not a Post Pattern entry.

Keith (for d3football.com) can't pick a team to lose in the first round, then have you say you didn't pick them to lose in the first round.  That's all.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2007, 09:35:36 AM
Broadcast link for North Carolina Wesleyan at Washington & Jefferson:

http://www.wjpa.com/sports.htm
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 17, 2007, 03:07:28 PM
Print this  for next year boys:

An absolute joke you were the #1 seed, and deserved to lose. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on November 17, 2007, 05:34:17 PM
"Deep into the playoffs", huh ?!!
So what was the woulda-coulda-shoulda score in this ball game ?
Let's face it guys, with both W&J and Waynesburg going down today, maybe PAC football just isn't what some of us crack it up to be.
Does anybody remember the "Pathetic" Athletic Conference ?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2007, 05:38:12 PM
Can't write about Waynesburg, and they weren't in a game that has any bearing on anything today.

W&J, on the other hand, got beat, in overtime, by a team of great athletes that found a way to win.

The Bishops used all three phases of the game to make it happen.

Congrats to them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2007, 01:36:49 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2007, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2007, 09:17:05 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2007, 10:02:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2007, 05:38:24 PM
So when W&J wins this Saturday, I hope we don't hear from them in the newspaper that we picked them to lose, like we heard in 2004.

Um, Pat, one of your guys did (pick W&J to lose) considering Bridgewater and W&J played in the first round...


"Champion
Keith: Forced to choose, I like Bridgewater's playoff experience and the fact that they were tested early in the season and perhaps worked out the kinks since then."

Yes, sir. That's not the same as "D3football.com picked us to lose," though, Bob. It's not the opinion of the site and it's not even the majority opinion on Triple-Take. And Keith is not only entitled to his own opinion, it was posted after I made my post.

Why so combative this year, Bob? Did we do something to you?

Just looking for accuracy, Pat.  And when I posted inaccurately yesterday, I acknowledged, apologized and re-doubled my efforts to not repeat that mistake.

Keith's quoted comments (above) are from the 2004 Our playoff surprises, disappointments column.  Keith, Pat, Gordon all posted together.  Those are well before your Post Pattern comments on THIS year's team.

in 2004, Bridgewater played W&J in the first round, and Keith picked Bridgewater as the 2004 regional champion, that required W&J to lose to Bridgewater.  So, yes, Keith (for d3football.com) picked W&J to lose in the opening round.

"We" is whom when it comes to d3football.com?  Pat, Keith, Gordon, right?  This was a three-writer column on D3football.com, not a Post Pattern entry.

Keith (for d3football.com) can't pick a team to lose in the first round, then have you say you didn't pick them to lose in the first round.  That's all.

Alright, i missed your reference that this was 2004. But Keith doesn't speak for the site, any more than the Observer-Reporter's sports columnist speaks for the newspaper as a whole. You're a media guy, right? Take off the W&J hat and think like a media person.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2007, 11:20:48 AM
Alot of critiscm concerning the D3 Writers views and opinions on the seedings. 

But that is exactly what they are and they are posted to do exactly that create headlines.

It looks like they were dead on with the call for WJ to Lose. 

Regardless if the Editors of D3 believed WJ had a tough schedule and did not play anyone.  All of us as players understand you may not always have your A Game with you every Saturday, and you still find ways to win no matter what.  WJ found ways to win for Ten straight weeks.  I feel they were entitled to their number 1 seeding.  When a team gets to the playoffs we will find out just how time tested they are, and NCWC has some athletes and find a way to win against WJ. 

WJ Seniors season may have ended premature in their minds, but don't ever feel short changed.  They accomplished alot over the last 4 years and leave the game for good on top.  Congrats to those guys.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2007, 11:30:31 AM
Mad Anthony made a terrific commment about our Conference as a whole.  We believe it has gotten more competitive over the last 6 years.  Have we really closed the gap on the other conferences?

Tough question but because their are a plenty of D1 small and large school in Ohio and PA.  Those schools take alot of our athletes.  There are also a large amount of DI AA and D2 schools in Ohio and PA for that matter as well.  WHen it coems to D3 there are alot of schools that are geographically close giving the student athlete plenty of choices.  Let's be honest having MUC right on the border line of PA-Ohio they take a ton of talent as well. 

As a PAC Athlete Alumn i would like to say we have closed the gap but maybe we are really getting ahead of ourselves here.  Our conference will now have the ability to send two teams to the playoffs possibly, but how far will they end up going?  WJ has always represented this conference well.  Why aren't the rest of the teams in the PAC picking it up?

I truly believe we dont have enough players leftover as they do in the south or even in the Northwest.  Were not bigger, faster,or stronger than these teams we play come playoff time it seems.

Its not the coaching but the caliber of the players we are getting in our conference that is keeping the PAC lagging when it comes to other conferences.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2007, 11:31:21 AM
BIGERN,


Your posts always make me crack up.  I'll help you out with some positive Karma.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 11:43:16 AM
In all honesty, I think the writers justified their opinion, and the result yesterday just was the explanation point.   As much as it pains me, you don't deserve your number one seed when you can't beat the eighth seed on your home field.  

Not in any way to diminish what the Bishops have accomplished, but to just simply congratulate them is ignoring the issues that have plagued W&J all year.   That is if you consider them an elite team in Division III.

They played at times fantastic for four quarters, and at other times, left teams that should not be on their level hanging around later in games.  Defensively they never really showed talent on that side of the ball that could keep them deep in the postseason.    

There were posts here during the season that implied 'a win is a win',  but also stressed they need to get better toward the end of the season if they want to accomplish more.  

They never really improved, and thats why their season is over.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2007, 12:09:29 PM
The WJ loss this weekend does defend all their comments that were made in the last week, and will not sit will with Presidents fans and Alumni.

I dont think anyone is diminishing what the Bishops have Accompilshed, but I dont think the WJ senior class has anything to look back upon and regret. 

Maybe they didn't improve enough as the season went on, but maybe the competition in our conference wasn't pushing them to take their game to the next level. 

They will continue to represent this conference well for years to come with Siranni as Coach.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 02:32:15 PM
Cleveland,

I agree with your post for the most part, but I don't buy the 'competition' in the PAC as the reason they couldn't move forward in the postseason.

There have been countless seasons where the PAC competition didn't exist, yet didn't  prove to be an obstacle for deep playoff runs.   Don't get me wrong, I would like to see the team more 'battle tested' during the season, but you can only play who is on your schedule.

That schedule may be well received next season with the graduating class anyway, but I have to wonder if W&J gets into the postseason again, will this flop be considered into the seeding process for future seasons? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 18, 2007, 04:36:02 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 02:32:15 PM
Cleveland,

I agree with your post for the most part, but I don't buy the 'competition' in the PAC as the reason they couldn't move forward in the postseason.

There have been countless seasons where the PAC competition didn't exist, yet didn't  prove to be an obstacle for deep playoff runs.    Don't get me wrong, I would like to see the team more 'battle tested' during the season, but you can only play who is on your schedule.

That schedule may be well received next season with the graduating class anyway, but I have to wonder if W&J gets into the postseason again, will this flop be considered into the seeding process for future seasons? 

May be a mute point but other than the 2004 trip to the Regional final, when has a PAC team made a deep run in the playoffs since 1999?

W&J lost in the 1st Rd in 2000,2005,2007
Waynesburg lost in the 1st Rd in 2003
W&J lost in the 2nd Rd in 1999,2001,2002,2006

Is there a problem with being tested during the regular season? I don't know, but the playoff results have been pretty static since the miracle 2nd half Bridgewater had against W&J in 2000.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2007, 05:10:28 PM
I think that W&J and the Pres AC benefit from being the strongest conference in their neck of the woods.

The 2004 South Regional Finals W&J loss to UMHB (52-16) was by a larger margin of victory than UMHB pasted on Trinity in the first round (32-13) or top-seed HSU in the second round (42-28) of the 2004 playoffs.

The W&J Presidents have a lot of good will in the NCAA.  They get the benefit of the doubt every season, and have usually been ranked high in the D3football.com Top 25 in week #11:

2003 -- (Wayneburg #22)
2004 -- W&J #5
2005 -- W&J #6
2006 -- W&J #20
2007 -- W&J #7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 18, 2007, 05:14:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2007, 05:10:28 PM
I think that W&J and the Pres AC benefit from being the strongest conference in their neck of the woods.

The 2004 South Regional Finals W&J loss to UMHB (52-16) was by a larger margin of victory than UMHB pasted on Trinity in the first round (32-13) or top-seed HSU in the second round (42-28) of the 2004 playoffs.

The W&J Presidents have a lot of good will in the NCAA.  They get the benefit of the doubt every season, and have usually been ranked high in the D3football.com Top 25 in week #11:

2003 -- (Wayneburg #22)
2004 -- W&J #5
2005 -- W&J #6
2006 -- W&J #20
2007 -- W&J #7

And even that 2004 run started with a dbl overtime thriller over BC in the first round. It is a fine line but several of W&J's playoff losses have come at home, meaning they were the higher seed. Atleast in the NCAA's eyes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 05:24:33 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but why is 1999 the mark that is measured here? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 18, 2007, 05:31:23 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 05:24:33 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but why is 1999 the mark that is measured here? 

1. Because that is how far the current D3football.com records are published.
2. Who cares how you scheduled 10 years ago when there were only 16 teams in the field and one win equaled a deep run in the playoffs.

IMO the PAC, specifically W&J, gets their high seed because they win their OOC games and roll the PAC every year. A 10-0 , 9-1 season will get you a high seed in the tournament by the current NCAA standards. Does not make you the best conference in the Northern end of the South region.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 06:14:44 PM
So llamaguy, you don't think W&J's reputation as a program prior to 1999 has any bearing on how they are ranked or seeded? 

If Bethany goes 10-0 next season, would they get a high seed in your opinion? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 18, 2007, 06:38:10 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 06:14:44 PM
So llamaguy, you don't think W&J's reputation as a program prior to 1999 has any bearing on how they are ranked or seeded? 

If Bethany goes 10-0 next season, would they get a high seed in your opinion? 

I will agree with you to a point. I don't think what happened 10 years ago matters, now the past 2 to 3 years yes! I'll use Bridgewater as an example, they had high regard after their 2001 Stagg Bowl appearance. Now after two straight years of not making the playoffs I see them having to climb the ladder to "South  region powerhouse" again.

To answer your question about Bethany, no. Although a conference with playoff wins does hold higher regard than those that have never won an NCAA playoff game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: @d3jason on November 18, 2007, 07:06:13 PM
Question: Is California (PA) success' drawing away some of the kids that W&J used to get in the early to mid-90's? I know (think) Luckhardt is there now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 07:40:44 PM
I'm probably biased, but I think part of it is Luckhardt, and part of it is the success in recent years of Duquesne and possibly even Robert Morris. 

Without being too personal, I work in a local school district, as well as my wife.  I'm also from a local school district that had a pretty good pipeline for players that contributed to the success in those years you speak of.

I don't think there is as much talent there in their defense, but also know of several cases where the successful student athlete was given luke warm to no attention from W&J, and have had success at other schools. 

I think a kid coming out and wanting to play at a competitive level in small college has more options available to them, but I also admit I think there is a certain player W&J recruited during the Luckhardt years that they don't get now. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: @d3jason on November 18, 2007, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 07:40:44 PM
I'm probably biased, but I think part of it is Luckhardt, and part of it is the success in recent years of Duquesne and possibly even Robert Morris. 

Without being too personal, I work in a local school district, as well as my wife.  I'm also from a local school district that had a pretty good pipeline for players that contributed to the success in those years you speak of.

I don't think there is as much talent there in their defense, but also know of several cases where the successful student athlete was given luke warm to no attention from W&J, and have had success at other schools. 

I think a kid coming out and wanting to play at a competitive level in small college has more options available to them, but I also admit I think there is a certain player W&J recruited during the Luckhardt years that they don't get now. 


Thanks. Those were some great teams. I thought they were going to win it all in '94, but Albion played they game of their life.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 18, 2007, 06:38:10 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 06:14:44 PM
So llamaguy, you don't think W&J's reputation as a program prior to 1999 has any bearing on how they are ranked or seeded? 

If Bethany goes 10-0 next season, would they get a high seed in your opinion? 

I will agree with you to a point. I don't think what happened 10 years ago matters, now the past 2 to 3 years yes! I'll use Bridgewater as an example, they had high regard after their 2001 Stagg Bowl appearance. Now after two straight years of not making the playoffs I see them having to climb the ladder to "South  region powerhouse" again.

To answer your question about Bethany, no. Although a conference with playoff wins does hold higher regard than those that have never won an NCAA playoff game.

I guess we can agree to disagree.  You don't think what happened ten years ago matters, yet seem to cite what happened nine seasons ago (1999) as relevant.   I think we are on the same page as to if W&J deserved to get a #1 seed, but I definitely would never consider one win in the 16 team field a 'deep' run either.

It may seem ancient history to some, but I think that the two Stagg Bowl appearances in the early 90's combined with the consistency of winning the conference/playoff appearances lends a resume that has given them a higher seed, or the rankings nationally during the season.  

To say they are deserving of that I think is subject for debate and have no problem with that.  





Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Llamaguy on November 18, 2007, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 18, 2007, 06:38:10 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 18, 2007, 06:14:44 PM
So llamaguy, you don't think W&J's reputation as a program prior to 1999 has any bearing on how they are ranked or seeded? 

If Bethany goes 10-0 next season, would they get a high seed in your opinion? 

I will agree with you to a point. I don't think what happened 10 years ago matters, now the past 2 to 3 years yes! I'll use Bridgewater as an example, they had high regard after their 2001 Stagg Bowl appearance. Now after two straight years of not making the playoffs I see them having to climb the ladder to "South  region powerhouse" again.

To answer your question about Bethany, no. Although a conference with playoff wins does hold higher regard than those that have never won an NCAA playoff game.

I guess we can agree to disagree.  You don't think what happened ten years ago matters, yet seem to cite what happened nine seasons ago (1999) as relevant.   I think we are on the same page as to if W&J deserved to get a #1 seed, but I definitely would never consider one win in the 16 team field a 'deep' run either.

It may seem ancient history to some, but I think that the two Stagg Bowl appearances in the early 90's combined with the consistency of winning the conference/playoff appearances lends a resume that has given them a higher seed, or the rankings nationally during the season.  

To say they are deserving of that I think is subject for debate and have no problem with that.  



Fair enough, although I never said 1999 was relevant, just listed all the results I had from D3football.com for comparison as to how they made a deep run in the last 8-9 years? I still contend the last 2-3 years is what matters, in which case, UMHB and Wesley are the powers of the South, where in '02,'03,'04 it was Bridgewater, Trinity, UMHB, and W&J. W&J is still the first team on the 2nd tier because they continue to make the playoffs each year. A couple of runs to the Semis like Wesley has done and they can jump back onto the first tier again.

ps. If we are looking at all time historic D3 powers I would include Wittenburg & Ithaca in the 70's, Augustana in the 80's, Mt Union, Rowan (always a bridesmaid), UW-Lax, and W&J in the 90's, and Mt. Union and St. John's since 2000 with  UWW and UMHB about to join the group.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2007, 10:05:18 PM
QuoteFor those of you who are still wondering why W&J attempted a fake kick, here is an article about it from the local paper.
http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/11_18_W_amp_J_NCW_game_story
Copied from the ASC Board.

I agree with Coach Sirianni's call.  Go for it! :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 19, 2007, 09:33:31 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2007, 01:36:49 AM
...But Keith doesn't speak for the site, any more than the Observer-Reporter's sports columnist speaks for the newspaper as a whole. You're a media guy, right? Take off the W&J hat and think like a media person.

That's a joke--Keith doesn't speak for the site...He's 1/3 of the Kingsmen Trio--Pat, Keith & Gordon.  It might be convenient to say he doesn't in this instance, but he does.  Believe me, if Keith says something libelous, the SITE's errors & omissions insurance is going get examined.  And protestations that "Keith doesn't speak for the site" will fall on deaf ears.

And my comments on THIS topic, shy of the fact that Keith's original commentary included the Presidents, had NOTHING to do with my association with W&J.  They were about a regular columnist predicting a W&J loss in the first round and the publisher posting a comment that the site never predicted a first-round loss.  Period.

I have been a fair, regular and objective poster to these boards since their inception.  I've callled spades spades for years, and will continue to do so.  If that's not acceptable, I guess I'll just pull my W&J hat down over my ears and try to get ready for winter.  It came to Wash., Pa about a week earlier than I expected, but it's arrival wasn't a total surprise to me, either.

Thank you for a great site covering D-III football!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 19, 2007, 10:10:33 AM
Yeah -- one columnist does not speak for the site nor one columnist for any publication.

If you read the newspaper and see the unsigned editorials on the editorial page, THAT is the opinion of the publication. Anything else is the opinion of one person.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 19, 2007, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2007, 10:05:18 PM
QuoteFor those of you who are still wondering why W&J attempted a fake kick, here is an article about it from the local paper.
http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/11_18_W_amp_J_NCW_game_story
Copied from the ASC Board.

I agree with Coach Sirianni's call.  Go for it! :)

I didn't have a problem with going for two.  What I did have a problem with was the attempted deception of the call, and not having your best players making it.

It smelled of Walt Harris. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Big O on November 19, 2007, 12:45:13 PM
I don't see how anyone can say the PAC is the strongest league around? How do you define around?
If PAC teams want to do better than one and done in the playoffs, they need to take a hard look at how they differ from the competition...perhaps look at the OAC.
Even if you discount MUC, what do Ohio Northern, BW and John Carroll have that W&J, GCC and Waynesburg do not?
Is it facilities? Is it financial aid (I know there's no athletic money)? Is it academics? Is it tradition?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 19, 2007, 05:31:42 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 19, 2007, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2007, 10:05:18 PM
QuoteFor those of you who are still wondering why W&J attempted a fake kick, here is an article about it from the local paper.
http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/11_18_W_amp_J_NCW_game_story
Copied from the ASC Board.

I agree with Coach Sirianni's call.  Go for it! :)

I didn't have a problem with going for two.  What I did have a problem with was the attempted deception of the call, and not having your best players making it.

It smelled of Walt Harris. 

I agree with you the_burghboy, go for 2 with your best players.  I was really surprised by what I read in the article.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2007, 06:24:33 PM
Burgh Boy,

What a call at the end of the game.  I did not know that was how the game ended. 

I agree with a 2 point conversation put all your best players in.  Spread those recievers out 4 wide and let Bob Swallow do the rest. 

Of Course were Monday Quarterbacking here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2007, 06:26:16 PM
Big O,

I dont know whose post you are referring to. In my post I stated the PAC wasn't the Strongest by any means.

And gave Facts as to why I don't think it is very strong. 

Has the conference become more competitive.  Yes

Are we the Strongest Around. Noway.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 19, 2007, 07:42:45 PM
Quote from: Big O on November 19, 2007, 12:45:13 PM
I don't see how anyone can say the PAC is the strongest league around? How do you define around?
If PAC teams want to do better than one and done in the playoffs, they need to take a hard look at how they differ from the competition...perhaps look at the OAC.
Even if you discount MUC, what do Ohio Northern, BW and John Carroll have that W&J, GCC and Waynesburg do not?
Is it facilities? Is it financial aid (I know there's no athletic money)? Is it academics? Is it tradition?


I don't know who this is in reference to, but I have two words in reply:

Conference Schmonference.

Okay, I guess I'll follow up :)

Mount Union could be in the OAC, PAC, or any "AC" and still have won their national titles in my opinion.  I don't see a whole lot of 'nailbiters' the last several years in conference play from MUC, and anyone outside of fans of their opponents probably know much about them. 

In my four years I probably had my pads off by the third quarter more than I played an actual PAC opponent for a full game, and that  was probably when we traveled and didn't have enough bodies available.  That didn't help or hurt us in postseason play in my opinion. 

Conference strength isn't as important as having superior talent, coaching, and knowing how to execute both on game day. 

Again, don't get me wrong:  I'm all for a stronger PAC, but more for my own 'fan value' now, and not at the expense of the W&J program slipping in it's national stature, which I think this weekend helped to grease the skids.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crufootball on November 20, 2007, 11:30:09 AM
Just in case you weren't there, here is the infamous fake kick on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bky3xDcDKxg
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2007, 12:57:13 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 20, 2007, 11:30:09 AM
Just in case you weren't there, here is the infamous fake kick on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bky3xDcDKxg
Please look at the video.

The outermost right Wesley defender is in the backfield so quickly, that I think that he blocks the kick, if he doesn't run past the trajectory of the ball before the ball gets there.  IMHO, that is why he is able to tackle the kicker so quickly!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 20, 2007, 01:22:04 PM
Still I think it was a horrible call.  I have no problem going for two, especially because your D has already given up 35 points.  But Sirianni had a chance to take the game out of his defense's hand and give it the game to Swallow.  He put his whole season on the legs of his kicker, not his foot, his running ability.  Just put the O out on the field.

There was also just no blocking whatsoever on the FG/XP point all day.  If they couldn't block for a kick, how did he expect them to block for a run.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2007, 02:18:11 PM
I've stayed off the "good call/bad call" issues for a while so as not to diminish what NCW did Saturday--make enough plays to win the game.

W&J, whether themselves or because of NCW, suffered complete systems failure Saturday afternoon.

Inability to protect Bobby Swallow.
Inability to pressure Cedric Townsend
Inability to defend the rush.
Inability to scrimmage kick.
Inability to cover kickoffs.

I have numerous questions about Saturday, the most pressing in my mind:
1) Why change offensive sets on 1st & goal at the 2 with 4 mins. left?  The shotgun offense, almost exclusively, has you 10-0 for the season, and tied 28-28 late in the first playoff game.  Why go under center now? And why three times...

2) Why, once you've decided to go for two, do you not put a national top-5 offense out and simply go for it?  As fast as the W&J kicker showed himself to be on the blocked PAT, he's not your best offensive choice.

I was immediately transported/timewarped to Bradenton, FL in 1992.  Trailing by four with time running out, the Presidents elected to have thier (at-the-time) all-time leading rusher THROW the ball, intending an endzone pass for their (at-the-time) all-time leading PASSER...  It went off his fingertips, fell incomplete and UW-LaCrosse celebrated their Stagg Bowl win.

I have absolutely no problem with going for two.  I have called games, particularly under two coaches who have the identical philosophy.  If possible, you want to have your hands on the ball when the final outcome is decided.  You want to give yourself your best opportunity to make that determination.

I think the Presidents failed, not in going for two, but for not GOING for it!  Despite the shortcomings listed above, this W&J defense actually gave the team a chance to win it.  The special teams failures, and the decisions that twice left the offense empty-handed will be the story of the 2007 Presidents Football team.  Too bad!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2007, 03:29:23 PM
I agree after two blocked kicks that it's prudent to go for two.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2007, 02:18:11 PM
I think the Presidents failed, not in going for two, but for not GOING for it! 

By this do you mean not going for two straight up, rather than using a trick play? It's hard to argue against that assessment. Didn't seem like the element of surprise was worth going with a gadget play and they should've just lined up and gone for it.

I know, 20-20 hindsight is easy.  :-\
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2007, 03:50:45 PM
Hindsight is 20/20.

Deciding to go for two to win the game right now, I would have put my offense on the field and gone for it.  By my calculations, the W&J offense averaged 5.07 yards per play for the game.

The scrimmage kick unit had already seen one PAT and one FG blocked, one from each side.  I gotta take my chances with the O, the nation's 3rd-highest producing unit.

The defense was the suspect unit most of the season with this squad, along with KO coverage.  Giving the offense the chance to win it keeps the D on the sideline.

And, to be totally transparent in this discussion, I've never played a down of football in my life, save quite a few Turkey Bowl and backyard games.  I don't know what it takes to keep the crazed, frothing-at-the-mouth beast on the other side of the line from turning my 165-pound kicker into a hamburger, nor what it takes to throw the ball around, over or through the same behemoth's charge.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 20, 2007, 04:47:22 PM
I completlely agree Bob, I seemed like Sirianni almost didn't know if he wanted to kick it or fake it.  I love the call to go for 2, hate the actual play call.  His quote was that "it worked in practice."  I held for 3 years and every fake we ran in practice worked.  I'm sure that's the case at every school in the country.  That to me made it seem like he had no clue what he was doing.

At the same time, if Swallow throws an incomplete pass, will it make this loss any better?  I'm not sure.  Still all the credit goes to NCW.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 20, 2007, 05:30:56 PM
Quote from: EC Warrior on November 20, 2007, 01:22:04 PM
Still I think it was a horrible call.  I have no problem going for two, especially because your D has already given up 35 points.  But Sirianni had a chance to take the game out of his defense's hand and give it the game to Swallow.  He put his whole season on the legs of his kicker, not his foot, his running ability.  Just put the O out on the field.

There was also just no blocking whatsoever on the FG/XP point all day.  If they couldn't block for a kick, how did he expect them to block for a run.   

Exactly.  As sad as it was they actually had to be in that position to begin with, well, I can only hope that not only players grow through those experiences, but also the coach.

I'm just irritated that I actually have to take my family to the Pitt/South Florida bloodbath Saturday instead of another W&J home playoff game, which are usually the few games worth attending anymore. 

I think I'll just try to stay home and rake the leaves.  :-[

P.S.  Walt Harris said that hindsight was 50/50.  Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Darkside90 on November 20, 2007, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2007, 11:31:21 AM
BIGERN,


Your posts always make me crack up.  I'll help you out with some positive Karma.



CC,
That's really nice of you.  Maybe now he won't CRRRRYYYYY  :'( so much!!!!!

Oh no!  If he reads this he'll start crying again, and all your charity would have been for nothing.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2007, 08:13:33 AM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 20, 2007, 05:30:56 PM

P.S.  Walt Harris said that hindsight was 50/50.  Sorry, I couldn't resist.

And where's HE coaching now?  lol
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 21, 2007, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: Darkside90 on November 20, 2007, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 18, 2007, 11:31:21 AM
BIGERN,


Your posts always make me crack up.  I'll help you out with some positive Karma.



CC,
That's really nice of you.  Maybe now he won't CRRRRYYYYY  :'( so much!!!!!

Oh no!  If he reads this he'll start crying again, and all your charity would have been for nothing.






Sorry Dark go to your room, adults are talking now.

I have waited three days to post something on here. I wanted to wait until I had a clear mind, but there are a few points I would like to make known.

I watched the game and thought W&J was going to slip one by NCWC, W&J had the rock on the 3 yard line less than 4 minutes to go in the game. Mike lines up in his goaline package, in which I do not disagree in doing. But he runs a gadget play on third down to get minus three yards. He faked to the fullback and tossed it to the running back. The ball was on the 1 yard line. He did not hand the ball off once to the fullback in the game. There was no set up for this play. But MIKE decided to go into his bag of tricks and pull out fake dive toss. Why not pound the ball and put the game out of reach and milk more time off the clock or spread them out and go empty and run qb draw. Bobby has not really ran the ball all year it would have been something that could have caught the defense off guard. In the first overtime before the worst call in W&J history took place Matthews scored on a draw play from like the 6 yardline. Now after this the boys lined up and were ready to kick the extra point, so we all thought. Then he puts a perfect 10-0 season and all of the seniors last year of football on the line with a fake FG with the KICKER RUNNING THE BALL. If he would have remembered just ten minutes ago when W&J was on the 1 yard line that he tried a similar trick play with the fake dive toss to his explosive RB and it did not work. So what's to say that a KICKER could have done it better?  Now as I watched this game I started to feel like 2004 season with Bridgewater and us going into overtime and we could not stop their offense, but guess what when we finally did stop them it was for the win. I think Mike lost confidence in his boys and panicked. If he wanted to WIN THAT GAME and NOT RISK A BLOCK EXTRA POINT< THEN PUT YOUR OFFENSE ON THE FIELD. I am sure that your two future all-Americans on the offensive line BUCAR & HOUY, SR T-MAC, SR HOFF, BIG GAME SWALLOW, SR MATTHEWS, CHURCH, RAT, ESPE, and The REST OF THE OFFENSE would have loved to been out on the field with a chance to win the game.

Now for defense. I do not think that Klein has been able to stop a mobile QB Since I began playing and watching W&J FOOTBALL (2007 NCWC, 2007 BC, 2006 Thomas More, 2006 MHB, 2005 Bridgewater, 2005 Salisbury, 2004 MHB, 2004 Bridgewater. I am sure there are couple of more I am missing.  He barely blitz in the second half and had his boyz dropping real deep in zone coverage and left NCWC QB plenty of room to run. I may have seen Gitlitz blitz once in the second half. Was not the same Defense that played in the first half? W&J blitzed a lot more in the first half. Which cause some confusion for QB. He went to a PREVENT DEFENSE (which is a prevent you from winning defense).

Special teams, it's what I have been saying all year that his would ultimately end the season for the Presidents. Two blocked kicks, one kicked returned and another that almost went back for a return. 40 seconds left in the first half and we kick the ball off instead of a squib kick. They almost ran back the opening kickoff was anyone else concern that we did not want to give up a big return to end the half? I guess not. NCWC was not strong on snapping for their punts did W&J think once of blocking it?

There are a lot of questions that can be asked but we will never know why for any of them. Just think if W&J converts that fake we are not sitting here talking bad about the program but saying how much guts Mike has for calling such a play. It's a double bladed sword that has its good and bad. If you make a call like that and it does not work than the coaches should be man enough to take any criticism that any parent, fan, Alumni, or friend has to say. W&J needs to learn from the mistakes and to the SR's you guys had one hell of a ride and good luck in your future.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bigerneatsboogers on November 21, 2007, 10:30:27 AM
i think everybody forgot that ONE play doesn't decide a game...here's something that nobody has mentioned- WHAT IF IT WORKED? what would be said on here? i'm only speculating but i'm guessing something along the lines of "DUBJ THE LSU OF D3" or "OH MY GOSH I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT JUST HAPPENED"
anyway i think everybody needs to chill, do i agree w/the call? maybe, maybe not. but are you guys going to judge coach's career on one play? if so maybe it should be krepps's qb sneak from the 1 inch line out of 5 wide? he continues to snag national recognition for a little ass d3 progrem and e.c. and bigern he gave us the best times of our lives, i personally don't think your busting on him e.c. but i could be biased , but bigern you need to bring it down, i'm not playing daddy to anybody on here because you're all grown ass men but bigern did he or did he not support you when you knee was shredded and you were rehabbing, just like me and e.c. had to sponge bathe you at scar's?? yeah it sucks the game ended like that but whaddyagonnado?...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on November 21, 2007, 10:36:28 AM
I am not trying to rip on Sirianni, I think he is an excellent coach, I just simply didn't like the play call.  That is basically why this message board is here isn't it, so we can question calls.  Loved going for two, didn't like the play though.

I think we also forget that the players should be held accountable as well.  Sirianni obviously had enough faith in his players to execute and they didn't.  W&J and Sirianni will be back next year, and will be fighting in the playoffs again.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2007, 10:36:44 AM
boogs,

I'm not judging Coach's career on one play, one game or one season.

The great thing about this game is that we call all talk about "what if"...

And, I'll confess (as I have already), it's easy for me to do say this or that 'cause I'm in the broadcast booth, and nobody's gonna squeeze my 'nads for a call I made, whether it works or not.

And I think I would have still asked "why" had Grabner made it....It probably would have come out AFTER "Can you believe he called that" but I would have asked "why".

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bigerneatsboogers on November 21, 2007, 10:37:04 AM
*program
* YOUR knee
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bigernernwj69 on November 21, 2007, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: bigerneatsboogers on November 21, 2007, 10:37:04 AM
*program
* YOUR knee
"There are a lot of questions that can be asked but we will never know why for any of them. Just think if W&J converts that fake we are not sitting here talking bad about the program but saying how much guts Mike has for calling such a play. It's a double bladed sword that has its good and bad. If you make a call like that and it does not work than the coaches should be man enough to take any criticism that any parent, fan, Alumni, or friend has to say. W&J needs to learn from the mistakes and to the SR's you guys had one hell of a ride and good luck in your future."


Dirt did you read this quote at all. I enjoyed my times at W&J and would never change them for all the money in the world. Now as for the last call of the game I can honestly say that was a bad call. But I never said he was a terrible coach; just look what he did for us my senior year. We should have been out in the first round, but mike called a great game. You can never take away. I also said in my quote that if the play would have worked we all would have complimented his call. Now it did not work, so that is that. I also got a little more in the pot than just being an alumnus, I have a brother on the team whose season is over and his football career is over.

Now as for my knee, he did support me when I blew my knee out. What else was he suppose to do tell me not to rehab or come around the field? Yes he gave me chance to come back on for the playoffs, but then again I went threw his a lot of his test to earn my spot back. I respect Mike a lot if you are an everyday ready of this post pattern site then you would have seen that I always give Mike props for being a great coach. I worked for Mike and developed a friendship with him, but when I messed up he let me know. I am not going to get in the extent of his punishments or how he handled situations, but one instance that does stick out is when he told me off in front of all the parents in Emory and Henry for getting a penalty. I messed up took my punishment like a man and moved on and did not make the mistake again. I think that he should do the same thing from this experience. It did not work take the criticism and move on and learn.

As for you, e.c and scars baths when my knee was out of order that's what friends are for and I will never forget that. I also will never forget how Chef Scars made noodles that could have used David Hasslehoff to prevent them from drowning.LOL. Like I stated before I will never forget my experiance I had at W&J, but what are people suppose to do just let it go and say its okay it was a gamble that did not work? I do not think so, when you gamble like that you will get people like me that will always question that call.  So, you can stop protecting Mr. Sirianni he is a big boy and can deal with this little sarcasm. Next year when he goes 10-0 again, this will start to fade out of peoples minds

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 21, 2007, 11:45:28 AM
I questioned the call when i first witnessed it but realized he went for the win and you have got to do that. To many coaches are conservative in todays game so i respect that. Everyone has an opinion and i am throwing mine out there.  Like everyone has said its would of could have should have. You make it your a hero if you dont your a dog. Thats the profession and it comes with the territory. W&J has had some good success recently and is a winning program and will always continue to be. Whether or not they ever get to Salem is a question for all but at least they get that chance every year. Mad Mike has been head coach for 5 years now and has a very good winning percentage. Lucky was around a long time before he got to the two stagg bowls and won plenty of games. As much as Sirianni loved to yell at me i respect the man and he can coach and will continue to have success.

Dirty the sneak and overtime win will be something we will never forget and you will probably never forget giving Ernst the sponge bath hahaha i am sorry ;D

Wodday i am not questioning your respect of Sirianni in this as i know you have respect for him no matter what went on. Losses sting when your team loses for you it stung more as your bro was on the team. Also i am possibly thinking of making a trip to the Boro for the Vincent Mclane game i will be in touch.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2007, 12:17:08 PM
I'm sure nobody feels worse about it than Coach S. 

I for one, would sure as hell love to play for the guy....he plays to win.  They may not all go your way, but I think you'll see over time....that playing to win will be a great lesson for those who've played for the guy.  A lesson that they can take on in their "grown-up lives"....and put to good use. 

That may seem hoaky, but I played one year for Dean Paul (now at ONU) after playing for Vic Clark for 4 years.  Dean was known as a "riverboat gambler" and believed in going for the win.  In my one year with him, he went for it more times than we did in 4 years with Clark.  It also gave me an edge, I think...in my job that I have today.  Play to win. 

I know W&J will be mad next year...I'd hate to be their first opponent.  And it sucks that I have to eat crow from that Ralph Turner guy on here..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2007, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2007, 12:17:08 PM
...
I know W&J will be mad next year...I'd hate to be their first opponent.  And it sucks that I have to eat crow from that Ralph Turner guy on here..

:D :D :D

+1 Saints fan!!!

As an ASC fan, if UMHB can beat NCWC, I don't know whom I want UMHB to play in the Regional Finals...getting revenge on that Wesley team or beating those yankees from Muhlenberg!

Shucks, those are my sentiments if NCWC wins, too!



Why, I was in 7th grade before I learned damnyankees was two words!
  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on November 21, 2007, 01:16:10 PM
UMHB will pound NCWC in my opinion and pound the next opponent those boys are big and fast. NCWC is fast but very small especially up front. Their 3 man front will not work against the CRU as they will line up and physically beat them with the option game all day. Ill put my early score on the game at 45 - 14 UMHB.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DogPower on December 07, 2007, 12:31:55 AM
I have heard some news that a Wide Receiver from California who played at a 1AA school might be transferring to Thomas More. If thats the case then that should really help them. Anyone else hear that?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 07, 2007, 08:49:23 AM
Haven't heard anything to that affect, DogPower. 

Do you know this guy or something?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on December 07, 2007, 12:57:22 PM
Today let us remember our Soldiers and Sailors who lost their lives at Pearl Harbor and those who survived the attack in our prayers and thoughts.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DogPower on December 07, 2007, 09:33:51 PM
Actually yeah, he was a former teammate of mine in high school. He says he is looking to transfer to a D3 school back towards his former home Cincinnati.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 08, 2007, 01:45:03 AM
He has two choices in Cincy....Thomas More and MSJ. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on December 11, 2007, 06:03:34 PM
Congrats to Bobby Swallow for being a first team AFCA All American. That has got to put him at the top of the W&J Qb's as i do not think Dawson or Edwards were ever first team All Americans. Also Congrats to Mike Czerwein from Waynesburg for also being on the team.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 12, 2007, 11:37:55 AM
Wes,

Your mother, Dorothy Mantooth is still a saint.  Champ Kind was wrong to say that stuff about her.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Wes Mantooth on December 13, 2007, 06:22:58 PM
HAHAHA Whammmmmmyyyyyyy. Great Movie.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DogPower on December 13, 2007, 10:00:48 PM
I heard its MSJ
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 18, 2007, 03:22:08 PM
Hello, PAC'ers.

Happy Holidays, one & all!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 19, 2007, 03:56:29 PM
Quote from: DogPower on December 13, 2007, 10:00:48 PM
I heard its MSJ

MSJ is the Heartland Conference Page....in the North Region. 

We can talk about the players that Thomas More does have on the PAC page.


Happy Holidays (like Bob) said to all.

Bob,
Hope all is well with the personal situation mentioned on here previously.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on December 21, 2007, 01:28:21 PM
SaintsFAN...

Happy holidays to you and yours...

Its great to have the college gang back south for the holidays. We're tring to stir up a few recruits from south Florida.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 23, 2007, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on December 19, 2007, 03:56:29 PM
Bob,
Hope all is well with the personal situation mentioned on here previously.

1)  A little less money to buy presents with.

But, on a positive note, given #1 above, there's (one) fewer to buy for....

You gotta laugh about life, or it'll drive you absolutely NUTS!

Merry Christmas, all.  It'll be fine at my house, Fan.  Thanks for asking.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 27, 2007, 09:45:48 AM
Bob,

Good to hear from you.  You definitely need to have a sense of humor to survive in our world.  I'm glad to see you are doing well. 

Go out and get that big TV that she wouldn't let you have..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: evacuee on December 28, 2007, 02:09:56 PM
If you want to promote division 3 sports, do a google search for pontiac game changing performance and vote for the only d3 play that will likely be seen there for a long time.  We only have a few days left and Appalachain State is currently in the lead. 

A vote for Trinity is a vote for d3football.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 28, 2008, 12:53:32 PM
tentative Washington & Jefferson College schedule:

(Night-vision goggles optional)

Sept. 6 – at Oberlin (1:00 pm)
Sept. 13 – Frostburg State (7:00 pm)
Sept. 20 – at Thiel (1:30 pm)
Sept. 27 – Grove City (7:00 pm)
Oct. 4 – at Geneva (7:00 pm)
Oct. 18 – Saint Vincent (2:00 pm) – HOMECOMING
Oct. 25 – Westminster (7:00 pm)
Nov. 1 – at Thomas More (1:30 pm)
Nov. 8 – Bethany (1:30 pm)
Nov. 15 – at Waynesburg (1:30 pm)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 30, 2008, 12:15:31 PM
Props to W&J for scheduling Frostburg!

FSU needs to the games, and hopefully they will have a better OOWP than most other possible opponents that W&J might choose to schedule.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 30, 2008, 12:28:54 PM
Bob,

I like the AT Thomas More game...Looks like you'll be coming to play in the new stadium---Bank of Kentucky Field. 

If you get there on Friday night...we can knock back a couple cold ones.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 30, 2008, 04:24:20 PM
Fan,

I won't be there on Friday night....our District high school playoffs begin that night.

We'll be driving in (and back) on Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 01, 2008, 03:40:12 PM
those damn WPAL playoff games!

another time perhaps. 

offer is open to anyone associated with W&J that makes the trip. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 05, 2008, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on February 01, 2008, 03:40:12 PM
those damn WPAL playoff games!


You sound like my EX......
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 14, 2008, 02:57:26 PM
And, while on THAT subject, what are y'all doing for Valentine's Day?!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 27, 2008, 03:30:40 PM
Bob,

HA.  I just saw this.  At least she limits it to "damn" only then. 

My plans for Valentines Day included heading to nightclub downtown.  With some of the fellas only. 

If i'm going to spend money on that day...its going to be on myself only.  Call me jaded. . . .


You also might want to take a look at the OAC page, Bob.  Some jackass is in there taking pop shots at Sirianni.  The funny thing is, this guy is a Marietta fan (Spence)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on March 03, 2008, 12:45:38 PM
Congratulations to the Thomas More womens basketball team....they finished the year 28-0, you read that correctly and got the #1 seed in their region.  This means they will be HOSTING the first two rounds of the NCAA D3 basketball tournament in Crestview Hills.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: maxamillion on April 02, 2008, 09:29:41 AM
To all TMC alumni that visit this site, I thought I would take a second to let you know that Jim Hilvert and the rest of the coaching staff are putting together the first annual TMC Football Golf Outing on May 31 at Twins Oak Golf Course.  If anyone wants information such as former players, alumni, or even former MSJ players who played for Hilvert and wanting to help him out please visit www.TMCfootball.com where you can find out all the information.  If anyone wants information on here just reply and leave your e-mail address and I will send something to you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on April 22, 2008, 12:05:45 PM
Now, having teased for a couple weeks, the Pirates are where we've become accustomed (heading quickly for double-digits below .500), there's one thing I need to know:


How long until kickoff?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on April 23, 2008, 10:44:02 AM
Bob,

Same with the Reds....minus the teasing.  We're only in good shape when Cueto or Volquez are pitching....thats two days a week.  Not good... >:(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on May 14, 2008, 11:09:03 AM
In the month of May the VFW distributes Buddy Poppies.  Please take time to give a dollar and take a poppy.  The proceeds of this go to aid the  Disabled Vets  (http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=cmty.levelc&cid=127&tok=1)

Mike Dougherty
Commander VFW Memorial Post 3776
Secaucus NJ


In Flander's Field
by John McCrae
In Flanders Fields the poppies blow,
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky,
The larks, still bravely singing, fly,
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the dead.
Short days ago,
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved and now we lie,
In Flanders Fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe
To you, from failing hands, we throw,
The torch, be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us, who die,
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow,
In Flanders Fields.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on May 28, 2008, 01:01:17 PM
Bob,

I'm going to the Pirates/Reds game tomorrow night.  Gotta see the new stud, Jay Bruce. 


BTW, all PAC'ers....the field turf is being installed this week at Thomas More....looks great.  Look forward to hosting PAC teams on campus in 08.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on May 30, 2008, 04:15:36 PM
You picked a great game to go to, SaintsFan.

Let's Go Bucs!
We're only about 3 pitchers shy of a starting rotation....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 03, 2008, 10:16:56 AM
Yep....Bob, that was the game the Bucs got after the Reds.  For some reason, the Reds are playing well right now.  I think its Jay Bruce. 

the playing surface has been installed at Bank of Kentucky Field....  if you want to see pictures:
   
http://www.thomasmore.edu/athletics/albums_construction.cfm?group=The%20Bank%20of%20Kentucky%20Construction%20Photos


Thomas More also released a list of kids who have MADE DEPOSITS (which we all know is a committment to the program) for 2008.  We will have 66 rookies in 2008...and it looks like the staff did VERY well in the Cincinnati area. 

The Saints also had their first annual "football-only" alumni golf outing on Saturday.  Though we only had 80 people there, its a big step in the right direction.  They are trying to get alumni (who were the reason the program was the fastest to 100 wins in D3) more involved with the program.  This can only help out the Saints with added support.

Things are definitely looking up for Thomas More.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on June 19, 2008, 11:36:40 AM
Hey SaintsFAN...

The Bison have justed completed putting down their new turf with a new track and lights to be completed by August. The PAC schools all seem to be upgrading facilities in the past few years. A big plus for the conference.

My son grabbed a couple All-American honors in track this spring and preparing for better results with the Bison in the fall.

See your boys for homecoming!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 19, 2008, 01:27:17 PM
Yep....We'll be seeing the Bison up there this year.  The Saints should be a handful in 2008.  25 of the 66 recruits were selected to all star teams following their seasons. 


The improvements of facilities in the PAC is very good, IMO.  Should be an exciting year
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on July 01, 2008, 04:19:19 PM
SaintsFAN

Congrats on your 31st...

Thomas More is quite happy in a very, very competitive conference (top to bottom...no weeks off)...I agree with your statement on the PAC but the consistency of the bottom 4-5 teams is just not there even when they play each other. In two seasons watching the Bison at home, I never have any idea which team will show up and when playing a bottom half team, I never know what to expect from them.

What do you think about W & J's preseason ranking (#2 to #5)? Not bad for the PAC. I wonder if they scrimmage MNU this year?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 01, 2008, 04:33:18 PM
No. 20 in USA Today Sports Weekly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on July 01, 2008, 04:46:28 PM
Pat...

That sounds a little more like it but hope they can play to a top 5 ranking at seasons end.

Make that scrimmage MUC..sorry

Already looking forward to the D3 preseason analysis and all the reviews. Can't wait to get out of NO-D3 Florida and catch some PAC games in September.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 01, 2008, 04:53:17 PM
I'd love to see W&J play an OAC team in the regular season. Doesn't have to be Mount Union but a regular game against John Carroll, Baldwin-Wallace, Ohio Northern would tell us a lot and be a good measuring stick for the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 01, 2008, 06:13:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 01, 2008, 04:53:17 PM
I'd love to see W&J play an OAC team in the regular season. Doesn't have to be Mount Union but a regular game against John Carroll, Baldwin-Wallace, Ohio Northern would tell us a lot and be a good measuring stick for the playoffs.
An in-region OAC game (less than 200 mile radius from W&J) would have a very big impact, and Coach Sirianni knows that.

He has used the criteria to present his team to the selection committee as favorably as anyone in the country.  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 01, 2008, 06:33:45 PM
Now that W&J is not reliant on Pool B anymore, gaming the system isn't necessary. Win the AQ and actually be prepared for the playoffs, rather than be stunned at home in the first 8-over-1 upset in Division III football.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 01, 2008, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 01, 2008, 06:33:45 PM
Now that W&J is not reliant on Pool B anymore, gaming the system isn't necessary. Win the AQ and actually be prepared for the playoffs, rather than be stunned at home in the first 8-over-1 upset in Division III football.
Yes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 03, 2008, 01:39:48 PM
Thanks SouthWilly,

Believe me the celebration was a doozy.  We had a great time.  Got to see lots of people that I haven't seen in awhile.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: M and L on July 10, 2008, 07:01:30 PM
Saintsfan,

the field looks great but when are they going to finish the rest of the field?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 11, 2008, 02:05:22 PM
Its an on-going project.  I'm not sure on the timetable at this point.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: M and L on July 21, 2008, 01:39:02 PM
Any Perdictions for this year teams?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on July 22, 2008, 12:25:14 PM
I'm not sure about the Bison team but the facilities have improved significantly. The guys say the new turf looks great along with a new track and lights.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Simba on August 05, 2008, 07:22:44 PM
Released today PAC fans....Simba

The MAC also used the media day to officially release the plans for the Middle Atlantic Conference vs. President's Athletic Conference Challenge.

Executive director Ken Andrews opened the event by announcing the MAC-PAC Challenge, which has been scheduled for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. The challenge will pit all eight schools in the MAC against schools from the PAC, consisting of Bethany College, Geneva College, Grove City College, Saint Vincent College, Thiel College, Washington and Jefferson College, Waynesburg University and Westminster College. All games will be hosted by MAC schools in 2010 and hosted by PAC institutions in 2011.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 07, 2008, 01:40:51 PM
Hello...Where is everyone??? Not any response to media day?

Looks like GC, West, TMC, BC and Thiel will have some very competitive games this fall. I would look for Bethany to do better than sixth as they will be better and have placed better the past to seasons after recoving from three 1-9 campaigns.

Waynesburg should be interesting without Heller at RB. That's a lot of yardage and TDs to replace.

W & J looks to be the powerhouse but I think their defense will have some questions to answer, especially the secondary.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on August 07, 2008, 04:27:59 PM
Willy -- Do you know something we don't? In the O-R today Shepas was quoted that Heller would be back.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 08, 2008, 11:39:21 AM
Mad...

I heard from a couple friends in Pa that he was severely academically ineligible. They said he attempted to transfer to a D2 school (Slippery Rock) but couldn't get in and wouldn't play this fall. I didn't hear his name mentioned on media day?

Having spent 25 years around D1 Florida football, eligibility changes very quickly and for no erason so it may also work in Pa.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 08, 2008, 12:48:18 PM
Waynesburg confirmed for me last month that he was back this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2008, 01:24:37 PM
thats a developing story....IMO, Pat.   That eligibility issue has been a rumor circulating PAC circles since November 2007. 


Thomas More returns 17 starters (not including All-PAC QB Stellman and All-PAC LB Steinmetz from 2006).  I think they are going to do better than the 5th spot they were selected to finish in 2008.   Provided the injury bug doesn't bite again this season, the returners along with the strong freshman class Coach Hilvert has brought in....will make camp very competitive. 

Last season's rash of pre-season injuries was ridiculous..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 08, 2008, 02:01:45 PM
Well, I hope I wasn't lied to by Waynesburg. That would make it very difficult to give them any preseason honors in the future.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 08, 2008, 02:42:58 PM
I didn't really think much about it until coach didn't mention Heller during the PAC media day along with their DE and others. Then I assumed the information was correct. I'd rather see a guy with that talent playing.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on August 08, 2008, 03:58:57 PM
An article in the Observer-Reporter, 8/7, said that Waynesburg had just gotten some good news and that Heller had satisfactorily completed some make-up class work this summer and would be eligible. They quoted Shepas as saying, "I think that everything is OK there." (Emphasis on think added). Which doesn't sound to me like he's too sure about it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on August 08, 2008, 07:14:54 PM
Waynesburg has posted a story entitled "A Look Ahead to the 2008 Season" on the College's
website. It states that "Bo" Heller will be back this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: fumble man 33 on August 17, 2008, 03:08:52 PM
HELLER WILL BE ON THE WAYNESBURG TEAM , HE JUST HAD TO TAKE A CLASS IN THE SUMMER THATS ALL NO BIG DEAL. HE IS GOOD AND IN THE BEST SHAPE OF HIS LIFE SO GET READY !!!!!!! HE WILL BE FUN TO WATCH.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2008, 12:28:10 AM
Quote from: fumble man 33 on August 17, 2008, 03:08:52 PM
HELLER WILL BE ON THE WAYNESBURG TEAM , HE JUST HAD TO TAKE A CLASS IN THE SUMMER THATS ALL NO BIG DEAL. HE IS GOOD AND IN THE BEST SHAPE OF HIS LIFE SO GET READY !!!!!!! HE WILL BE FUN TO WATCH.
Greetings fumble man 33!

Welcome to the boards!  The Presidents AC board is a very good one.  The fans are knowledgeable and contribute to our understanding of that corner of South Region football.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 18, 2008, 10:47:44 AM
Speaking in 3rd person are we?

Well, Pat...at least we know for sure that he's going to play......this year
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on August 19, 2008, 02:47:51 PM
Hey all!  I just registered this morning and I am looking forward to some good PAC football games this fall.

I am a Westminster College grad from 1980.  I used to post on Don Hansen's forum until he kicked me off.  (His site is all but dead anyway.)  But I promise I will behave myself on this forum.

I should be able to attend most Westminster home games this year.  I am hoping we can win 6 or 7 games.  Am I delirious or what?  Yeah, I am!

The first test will be at Heidelberg On Sept 6th.  (Heidelberg was the only OAC team to score on Mt. Union's first team defense last year.)   After that Allegheny comes to New Wilmington the next week.  After those two games we will see if the Titans can put together a winning season for the first time since 2002.

Well anyway, I am glad to be a part of this forum....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 19, 2008, 03:07:23 PM
Well, not sure what it took to get booted from there but welcome. And behaving would be helpful but we haven't had too many problems since we started requiring registration a couple years back.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on August 19, 2008, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 19, 2008, 03:07:23 PM
Well, not sure what it took to get booted from there but welcome. And behaving would be helpful but we haven't had too many problems since we started requiring registration a couple years back.

The reason, I believe, was that I "said" some negative things about another school and their coach (not a PAC school or coach).  I didn't use vulgarity or anything like that.  I tried to log in one day and found out that I couldn't get in and my posts were all deleted.

It's too bad, because a lot of other users on his site had a lot to say about it, too.  I am sure I got someone upset about my comments and they notified the site adminstrator and got me banned.  Oh well, this site is 100 times more livelier....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 21, 2008, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on August 19, 2008, 02:47:51 PM
I should be able to attend most Westminster home games this year.  I am hoping we can win 6 or 7 games.  Am I delirious or what?  Yeah, I am!

Very much so...!  JK, thats why they play the games... and we're all still undefeated at this point.   Welcome to the board.  BTW, you're right...this is a great website for Division 3 Athletics (not just football).

IMO, The 'Berg is going to be a handful for you guys.  If you followed Westminnie at all early in this decade, you'll recognize the offensive sets used by Coach Mike Hallett (former offensive coordinator under Dean Paul at Thomas More and then Coach Paul's successor as Head Coach when he left for Ohio Northern).  Coach Hallett has Bryan Moore and Rick Honnaker with him up at Heidelberg.  You hit the nail on the head, Hallett was OAC Coach of the Year in 2007 and they are rapidly improving with a great staff and the administration placing more of an emphasis on the football program, not to mention Coach Hallett and his staff have had a full year to recruit his players this year..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 21, 2008, 05:45:47 PM
Hi  SaintsFAN,

I'm only wishing for a winning record for the first time since 2001. The Bison will definately score points but the D will need to improve tremendously to give us a chance for 6-4. Picked up a few more South Florida boys from my area and a total of 53 freshman. The new school president is really behind the sports programs and with the new facilities recruiting should be much stronger.
I hope to get up for 3-4 games.

The site has been pretty quiet. Where's all the preseason posts and predictions.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 23, 2008, 12:10:12 PM
willy,

its good to have the admin behind the program... hopefully you see an influx of cash into the program as well.  You're going to like the TMC surface (and stadium when its complete).  Its going to really help us get to alot more Cincinnati stud HS players.  I think you're going to see TMC really step up in the next two years, as a result. 

I believe the media's pre-season ranking for Thomas More is WAY off.  I'm not saying which direction it should be and it doesn't really matter, as those pencil pushers don't really know anything outside of Western PA.  I will say this, you're going to see a different brand of Thomas More football this year.  I just saw the intrasquad game this morning.  You'll still see the toughness.. I'll add more later, but I think we're going to get John Carroll University in week 1.  Call it a hunch..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 23, 2008, 12:43:48 PM
SaintsFAN,

We're in a similar scenario playing Otterbein the first week. I don't think we will win the game but I do feel like the Bison will play them tough.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 24, 2008, 01:21:53 PM
Yessir....13 more days, until the season starts.

Good luck up at Otterbein,..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on August 24, 2008, 08:58:44 PM
New to the board! Wanted to see who some of the PAC teams were scrimmaging this year?

I have been reading many of the posts. Saintsfan, Does Thomas More plan on using some incoming freshmen right away or is the QB situation going to make that much of a difference?

Also, SouthWilly, you seem to be down on Bethany. What is the situation there? I see that they are upgrading their facilities and have brought in some quality recruits, what is the deal? Also, do you think Cruse will make it through a whole season this year?

My main concern is in Waynesburg, will they be able to stop anybody after losing so many key factors to their defense?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 24, 2008, 09:26:48 PM
i believe you'll see a few freshman play this year for Thomas More.  This will be in the skill positions, as a couple of the new guys bring some great speed to their positions.  Both lines are set with upperclassmen... Meanwhile, the QB derby is going to make both Stellman and Zerhusen better. 

Zerhusen looked very sharp at the intra-squad scrimmage on Saturday..

There's very good competition at each position as a result of the recruiting the staff did..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 25, 2008, 09:28:26 AM
Welcome aboard fan12...

I'm not down of the Bison but there are a lot of ??? on defense. They really need some athletes on that side of the ball. The offense will put up plenty of points on anybody in the PAC.

Cruse worked hard all summer down here and both he and McNeil should be a handfull for opposing D's. Soph QB needs to step up. Looking forward to a high scoring season.

Facilities are in place as well as 53 freshman recruits. Probably have some freshmen on defense opening day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on August 26, 2008, 09:56:14 PM
Awful Quiet on this board with opening games only about a week away.

I was just wondering how some of the other teams in the conference are fairing? I have not heard much about any teams besides Thomas More, Bethany, W&J? How is Westminster, Grove City, Waynesburg, Thiel, St. Vincent's, and Geneva? Has anyone scrimmaged in the conference yet?

Also, I hear that Waynesburg is primed to overtake W&J in the conference. Heller is looking better than last year and that all of the new guys they brought in are studs. I am sure W&J was happy to escape last year but rumor has it that Waynesburg has marked that game down as revenge.

Other than W&J and Waynesburg, who has a chance to win the conference? Can Thomas More surprise anyone? And what happened to the Tomcats? Also, can DiDonato lead the Grovers to the PAC championship like R.J. Bowers?

Just looking for some answers and trying to see if anyone is interested in talking on this board.

SouthWilly, who is Bethany Scrimmaging this year? And any word how camp is going?

Saintsfan, who does TMC scrimmage? And are there any injury updates?

Cannot wait for the PAC to start.  P.S. - Shepas should be the democratic rep. for President.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 27, 2008, 10:20:02 AM
Fan12...

Only a intersquad scrimmage for the Bison this year on Saturday. Not sure what happened there. Scrimmaged Otterbein last fall but they are first on the schedule this season. Word is camp is going well with (knock on wood) minimal injuries. The new turf is a big improvement over old practice "field".

As the Kickoff says, BC needs to find defense quickly, especially at linebacker.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 27, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on August 26, 2008, 09:56:14 PM
Awful Quiet on this board with opening games only about a week away.

I was just wondering how some of the other teams in the conference are fairing? I have not heard much about any teams besides Thomas More, Bethany, W&J? How is Westminster, Grove City, Waynesburg, Thiel, St. Vincent's, and Geneva? Has anyone scrimmaged in the conference yet?

Also, I hear that Waynesburg is primed to overtake W&J in the conference. Heller is looking better than last year and that all of the new guys they brought in are studs. I am sure W&J was happy to escape last year but rumor has it that Waynesburg has marked that game down as revenge.

Other than W&J and Waynesburg, who has a chance to win the conference? Can Thomas More surprise anyone? And what happened to the Tomcats? Also, can DiDonato lead the Grovers to the PAC championship like R.J. Bowers?

Just looking for some answers and trying to see if anyone is interested in talking on this board.

SouthWilly, who is Bethany Scrimmaging this year? And any word how camp is going?

Saintsfan, who does TMC scrimmage? And are there any injury updates?

Cannot wait for the PAC to start.  P.S. - Shepas should be the democratic rep. for President.

I think its going to be awfully hard to beat W&J this year...especially with 22 seniors coming back.   With their ball control offense with Swallow, my money is on them.   Waynesburg has a shot at them because its at Waynesburg...in the last week of the year, though if both are undefeated (and they should be) the game will have W&J's attention. 

As far as Thomas More goes....no major injuries to speak of as of last Saturday's scrimmage.  Remember, they also get back two all-PAC players lost in the preseason last year:  Stellman and Steinmetz....  This weekend the Saints scrimmage at Wilmington.  I won't be there (its like going to God's country).  But will be for the Season Opener against John Carroll.

Also, I'm hoping Thomas More gets to leave behind "Step child" status in the PAC... and maybe don't have so many shady calls go against them in 2008.  Notice I said, not as many... lets face it, nobody is perfect.

Anyone would be better than the Obama Nation (play on words intended).  I think its funny how when he introduced his VP the other day for the first time, he said "Our next President Joe Binden"....how right he is. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on August 29, 2008, 09:39:51 AM
Did anyone attend the WJ scrimamge against Mount Union last night?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: EC Warrior on August 29, 2008, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on August 26, 2008, 09:56:14 PM
Awful Quiet on this board with opening games only about a week away.

I was just wondering how some of the other teams in the conference are fairing? I have not heard much about any teams besides Thomas More, Bethany, W&J? How is Westminster, Grove City, Waynesburg, Thiel, St. Vincent's, and Geneva? Has anyone scrimmaged in the conference yet?

Also, I hear that Waynesburg is primed to overtake W&J in the conference. Heller is looking better than last year and that all of the new guys they brought in are studs. I am sure W&J was happy to escape last year but rumor has it that Waynesburg has marked that game down as revenge.

Other than W&J and Waynesburg, who has a chance to win the conference? Can Thomas More surprise anyone? And what happened to the Tomcats? Also, can DiDonato lead the Grovers to the PAC championship like R.J. Bowers?

Just looking for some answers and trying to see if anyone is interested in talking on this board.

SouthWilly, who is Bethany Scrimmaging this year? And any word how camp is going?

Saintsfan, who does TMC scrimmage? And are there any injury updates?

Cannot wait for the PAC to start.  P.S. - Shepas should be the democratic rep. for President.

Waynesburg marked the game against W&J as revenge?  In that case it's over, why even play the game?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 29, 2008, 11:40:05 AM
I checked with my son this morning at Bethany but no one went to the scrimmage. They are only 20 miles apart so I would think a coach or two might have checked the scrimmage.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on August 29, 2008, 01:38:48 PM
I do not see why Bethany would need to go and watch W&J and Mount Union Scrimmage. They do not play each other until the second to last game. Bethany will most likely get all of the game films from the season so it is no big deal.

So, I do not see the point in going to watch a scrimmage?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 29, 2008, 02:01:16 PM
Fan12...

I agree with your remarks but if my team is ranked outside the top150, hasn't had a .500 season in six years, I'm trying to grow the program and one team is my conference champion....I might be able to learn something that would help by watching two top 10 (maybe 5) teams go at it only 30 minutes away. 

At least I would hope so...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 29, 2008, 03:27:53 PM
Quote from: South Willy on August 29, 2008, 02:01:16 PM
Fan12...

I agree with your remarks but if my team is ranked outside the top150, hasn't had a .500 season in six years, I'm trying to grow the program and one team is my conference champion....I might be able to learn something that would help by watching two top 10 (maybe 5) teams go at it only 30 minutes away. 

At least I would hope so...

+K, Willy.  Very good reason to head over and watch two very elite programs (that 96% of D3 would love to emulate).   

Also, fan#12...I am very interested to see who Waynesburg can count on for their defense this year.  Sounds like the DE you lost was not only a great player...but a great leader as well.  If I remember correctly, W&J has a decent offense.. I knowing I'm going out on a limb here, but they are going outscore people. 

I will get a look very early this year at the Waynnies to see whats up..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on August 31, 2008, 08:47:26 AM
O.K. PAC fans out there, here are my picks for the first week of D3 action.

Saturday, September 6

McDaniel over Saint Vincent
Washington & Jefferson over Oberlin
Otterbein over Bethany
Dickinson over Grove City
John Carroll over Thomas More
Marietta over Thiel
Heidelberg over Westminster
Wooster over Waynesburg
Seton Hill over Geneva

Looks like it is going to be a long weekend for PAC teams. 

Of course, I never said I was an expert!

What are your picks...?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2008, 02:05:21 PM
Pat Coleman will set up a separate Pick'ems board for you to keep them separate from other discussions. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on August 31, 2008, 04:02:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2008, 02:05:21 PM
Pat Coleman will set up a separate Pick'ems board for you to keep them separate from other discussions. :)


That's great!  I see that a lot of other conferences have a Pick'em boards.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2008, 10:46:36 AM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on August 31, 2008, 08:47:26 AM
O.K. PAC fans out there, here are my picks for the first week of D3 action.

Saturday, September 6

McDaniel over Saint Vincent
Washington & Jefferson over Oberlin
Otterbein over Bethany
Dickinson over Grove City
John Carroll over Thomas More
Marietta over Thiel
Heidelberg over Westminster
Wooster over Waynesburg
Seton Hill over Geneva

Looks like it is going to be a long weekend for PAC teams. 

Of course, I never said I was an expert!

What are your picks...?



No way Wooster gets by Waynesburg... and I think two of the games against the OAC will result in "W" for the PAC. 

Did anyone know that Oberlin was the last Ohio team to beat THE Ohio State University?  It was back in the 1920's...but still, I'd use it my recruiting pitch in the living rooms during the winter..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 02, 2008, 11:48:34 AM
SaintsFAN...

A win over JC by your boys would send a strong message to PAC. Closest match up might be West/HC game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2008, 12:06:41 PM
Yes it would....we'll see.  We will need to play awfully well and have some breaks go our way to have a shot at the end..

It sounds like W&J had some issues containing Nate Kmic from MUC in the scrimmage... though, I don't think that says much...most of D3 is going to have trouble with him this year. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 02, 2008, 07:28:44 PM
Checking in, looking foward to another year of talking football with you all.

I also agreed with a previous post Pat had about W&J upping it's competition of teams outside the conference.  Nothing against the program,  but it's tough going to games where you know it's over by halftime.   

Furthermore, it doesn't lead to the team being 'battle tested' for the postseason, and why it's hard to buy into the preseason rankings until they go deeper in the playoffs.   

Hopefully the lesson learned against NC Weslyan was a valuable one for the '08 season.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2008, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on September 02, 2008, 07:28:44 PM
Checking in, looking foward to another year of talking football with you all.

I also agreed with a previous post Pat had about W&J upping it's competition of teams outside the conference.  Nothing against the program,  but it's tough going to games where you know it's over by halftime.   

I'm sure you're right....but goddmn!  I'd sure like to have it that way for about 5 years..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 03, 2008, 04:36:26 PM
The PAC fans seem eerily quiet with opening day less than 72 hours away. No conference matchups this week but some interesting games.

I'm interested in finding out how well the new Bison QB will handle the offense. With all backs, receivers and 4 OF linemen returning (only one SR in the bunch), he certainly has an experienced unit. If the defense can improve a little on last seasons numbers, they may win a couple more games.





Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on September 05, 2008, 12:58:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2008, 10:46:36 AM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on August 31, 2008, 08:47:26 AM
O.K. PAC fans out there, here are my picks for the first week of D3 action.

Saturday, September 6

McDaniel over Saint Vincent
Washington & Jefferson over Oberlin
Otterbein over Bethany
Dickinson over Grove City
John Carroll over Thomas More
Marietta over Thiel
Heidelberg over Westminster
Wooster over Waynesburg
Seton Hill over Geneva

Looks like it is going to be a long weekend for PAC teams. 

Of course, I never said I was an expert!

What are your picks...?


I feel that the PAC should have a decent opening week with some surprises possible.

McDaniel over Saint Vincent - still struggling in only their second year but improving
                         McDaniel-35    Saint Vincent- 17
Washington & Jefferson over Oberlin - Swallow picks up where he left off last season and look for the President's to run the ball well and play better defense with the new schemes.
                         W&J- 52          Oberlin- 7
Bethany over Otterbein- Possible upset here. Could be a real shoot out with the lack of defense from both teams.
                         Bethany-35     Otterbein- 28
Dickinson over Grove City- Didonato has a big day but the wolverines can get past Dickinson.
                        Dickinson- 24    Grove City- 14
Thomas More over John Carroll- Could be called an upset but with the return of the LB and QB from two years ago, look for a different year from the Saints.
                        Thomas More- 28    John Carroll- 17
Marietta over Thiel- Liep struggles in this one and an OAC team defeats the Tomcats in a close one.
                        Marietta- 24           Thiel-7
Heidelberg over Westminster- Heidelberg rolls over Westminster in a shoot because of the lack of defense Heidelberg could possess. Many of their athletes are on the offensive side of the ball.
                        Heidelberg- 42      Westminster-31
Waynesburg over Wooster- Heller Alert! He could run wild and will need to in order for the Yellow Jackets to start out 1-0.
                        Waynesburg- 24    Wooster- 17
Geneva over Seton Hill- Does not matter if there are scholarship players on the field the Tornados defense is stout. Look for a low scoring affair here.
                         Geneva-14        Seton Hill-10
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 06, 2008, 04:25:44 PM
I'm going to admit...I was silently thinking that Thomas More could shock John Carroll today.  .  .

Hats off to the Streaks.  They played with poise and intensity.  JCU defense forced a fumble on our first offensive play and it set the tone for the day.  I was impressed with how well coached John Carroll is, the QB who made some great reads on the zone/read, and also the WR's who made some acrobatic catches.  Thomas More has not closed the gap with upper-tier OAC teams and thats ok, not many teams have.

This was a good opener for Thomas More...to see what we need to work on.  This John Carroll team would finish in the top 2 in the PAC, from what I saw today.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 06, 2008, 08:40:46 PM
SaintsFAN...What a day!!!!  All I can say overall is wow, how bad is the PAC???

Most of the league just got spanked. The Bison hug in for a 13-7 halftime, then five turnovers later it was a blowout. Young QBs were all ineffective and that is being polite. No idea where they will go from here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 06, 2008, 09:28:21 PM
willy,

JCU will go 7-3 this year in the OAC..  17 starters back from last year...they were good, to say the least.

The big shocker, IMO... was Waynesburg/Wooster... hopefully they win next week so they can overlook Thomas More in two weeks. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on September 06, 2008, 09:55:48 PM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on August 31, 2008, 08:47:26 AM
O.K. PAC fans out there, here are my picks for the first week of D3 action.

Saturday, September 6

McDaniel over Saint Vincent
Washington & Jefferson over Oberlin
Otterbein over Bethany
Dickinson over Grove City
John Carroll over Thomas More
Marietta over Thiel
Heidelberg over Westminster
Wooster over Waynesburg
Seton Hill over Geneva

Looks like it is going to be a long weekend for PAC teams. 

Of course, I never said I was an expert!

What are your picks...?





Well folks, maybe I AM an expert.  I picked every game!  Wow!

Yeah, it looks like the PAC cannot compete with other conferences at this time.  Even W & J had trouble today.

I saw the Westminster-Heidelberg game in person today.  Heidelberg has a great offense.  They scored on just about every possession in the first half.  Westminster was very slow reacting to the ball.  Their safeties were beaten numerous times for big plays.  And WC had many returning letterman on their defense this year.  Watch out OAC teams for the Student Princes!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on September 06, 2008, 10:07:32 PM
Oh, I forgot to post the scores...

McDaniel 38, Saint Vincent 7
Dickinson 34, Grove City 7
Wash. & Jeff. 49, Oberlin 35
Marietta 21, Thiel 18
Otterbein 40, Bethany 7
John Carroll 41, Thomas More 14
Heidelberg 62, Westminster 27
Wooster 27, Waynesburg 6
Seton Hill 27, Geneva 18

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on September 07, 2008, 05:57:58 PM
Here are my picks for week 2:

September 13

Kentucky Christian over Bethany (First year Knights still beat BC)
Saint Vincent over Gallaudet  (First win for SVC)
Albion over Thiel (TC loses another close game)
Waynesburg over Hanover (Yellow Jackets rebound this week)
Allegheny over Westminster (Titans start 0-2)
Carnegie Mellon over Grove City (Grovers lose big)
Geneva over Salisbury (Geneva's defense pulls this one out)
Washington & Jefferson over Frostburg State (W & J wins big)

Hey, am I the only one with picks on this board?




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 09, 2008, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on September 07, 2008, 05:57:58 PMHey, am I the only one with picks on this board?

You might be since Pick 'ems are supposed to be on another board...


On another front, the PAC, while competitve inside, appears to be woeful this year, perhaps the worst I've seen in 25 years covering.

Might have to rename to the Pathetic Athletic Conference.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on September 09, 2008, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 09, 2008, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on September 07, 2008, 05:57:58 PMHey, am I the only one with picks on this board?

You might be since Pick 'ems are supposed to be on another board...


On another front, the PAC, while competitve inside, appears to be woeful this year, perhaps the worst I've seen in 25 years covering.

Might have to rename to the Pathetic Athletic Conference.
Hey, you said it...  ;) 

I don't know if I'm more surprised at how easily Wooster dispacthed of Waynesburg or how W&J couldn't put perennial NCAC bottom dweller Oberlin away until late in the 4th quarter? 

That was a pretty impressive feat from Wooster holding Heller to under 100 yds for the first time in his collegiate carreer!  Especially considering just about everyone I saw with a prediction thought it would be a feat if Wooster held him under 200!

But, Oberlin being tied with W&J at 35's in the 4th quarter could be just as impressive a feat even though the Yeomen eventually ended up on the short end.  What an upset that would have been!

And then my alma mater, Westminster, just got it handed to them by the Berg?  I keep wondering when WC will return to the glory days of when I attended there in the late '80s to early '90s...  It doesn't appear to be anytime soon?!  :'(

One thing's for sure.  The predicted top 3 in the PAC sure didn't perform like conference contenders on Saturday...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 09, 2008, 01:16:53 PM
I thought from the time the pre-season conference rankings were released that Westminster didn't belong in the top 3...and those voting that way were definitely under the influence of hippie lettuce-- but there's nobody else to put up there...  Sometimes returning 17 starters from a 2-4 team isn't as good as it appears on paper. 

At any rate...it will be interesting to see how the top 2 bounce back.. they are our playoff candidates.   PAC is lucky to be ranked in the top 20 conference-wise this year. 

Next year should be better..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 09, 2008, 01:23:21 PM
SaintsFan

I'm not sure W&J needs to "bounce back".  The Presidents offense scored 49 points, and left a bunch on the table, particularly in a W&J defense-dominated third quarter.

Now, that's not to say that things can't be done better, especially punt-protection and execution.  Another week working the new defensive schemes won't hurt either.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on September 09, 2008, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 09, 2008, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on September 07, 2008, 05:57:58 PMHey, am I the only one with picks on this board?

You might be since Pick 'ems are supposed to be on another board...


On another front, the PAC, while competitve inside, appears to be woeful this year, perhaps the worst I've seen in 25 years covering.

Might have to rename to the Pathetic Athletic Conference.


I keep checking for the PAC Pick'ems board and it doesn't seem to be set up yet.  If you know where it is, let me know.


You are right about the "new name" for the PAC.  Last year when W & J was beaten in the playoffs by an unranked team everyone thought it was a fluke.  I didn't.  The PAC schools are no where near being at the top of D3 football.  We can all "think" we are, but in reality that is just not the case.

I emailed the Geneva AD a couple of years ago after they had decided to get out of the NAIA and join NCAA D3.  I said that I hope they made the right decision.  After they lost to NAIA member Malone College by a big margin last year in the NCCAA Victory Bowl game, I wonder if they think that they should have stayed in a scholarship division.

Just as Westminster College has found out, just because you have had success in a scholarship division does not necessarily mean you are going to have success in D3.  

Let's see what happens when the PAC plays the MAC in 2010 & 2011.  Let's see how the PAC stacks up.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 09, 2008, 01:49:56 PM
PAC Pick-Em (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6007.0)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on September 09, 2008, 06:33:44 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 09, 2008, 01:23:21 PM
SaintsFan

I'm not sure W&J needs to "bounce back".  The Presidents offense scored 49 points, and left a bunch on the table, particularly in a W&J defense-dominated third quarter.

Now, that's not to say that things can't be done better, especially punt-protection and execution.  Another week working the new defensive schemes won't hurt either.


Just because W&J won doesn't mean they don't need to 'bounce back'.  Judging from the fact that Oberlin was at least a 30 point dog to the Presidents, and the fact that the game wasn't decided until the 4th quarter, I wouldn't have been too happy with that performance if I had been sitting on the W&J sidelines.  Maybe the offense doesn't need to 'bounce back' but I would definitely say that the defense would need to.  They won't make a post season run giving up 35 points to the likes of Oberlin...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 09, 2008, 11:06:01 PM
"30-point dog" isn't a fact at all.  Last I checked (and I did), there isn't a line on these games.  So, Oberlin being a "30-point dog" is a figment of somebody's imagination.

As far as the defense goes, they did "bounce back."  After allowing 213 yards in the first half, W&J's defense held the Yoemen to negative yards in the third quarter, and about 100 yards total in the second half, 50 of those yards on one busted play.

Call it bouncing back, adjustment, recognize in live play what was taught in practice, whatever.

Winning by 2 touchdowns a game that you should win isn't a crime.  In an opener, with a remade defense finding their game, it really wasn't that bad.  And when all 49 points come from your offense, it's not bad at all.  Could have been more, better? Sure.  And had that more, better come in the opportunities presented in the third quarter (by the defense), the outcome would have been clear sooner than it ultimately was.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2008, 12:03:00 AM
I have used bornpowerindex.com and lazindex.com for the ASC pick'em for at least 4 years.

After the W&J-Oberlin game (and looking up the indices this evening), and considering the HFA's that they have told me, the W&J - Oberlin margin is about right.

Oberlin of the last two years is stronger.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on September 10, 2008, 12:28:06 AM
All I'm saying Bob is that W&J was up 56-14 after 3 quarters of play last year vs. Oberlin and then they called off the dogs and let their JV's finish up the game in the 4th quarter.  I don't think they had the luxury of calling off the dogs this year.  If you want to take solace in the fact that a middle of the road at best NCAC team almost took down your nationally ranked Presidents, more power to ya...  I don't think I would be looking at things as positively as you seem to be seeing it.

And as for the spread, I know it isn't anything official.  But the guy that runs the NCAC Pick 'em contest is usually pretty spot on in determining spreads of games and he had the Yeomen actually at 34 1/2 point dogs FWIW...  So actually, I was being generous in stating that Oberlin was only a 30 point underdog.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2008, 08:48:58 AM
Quote from: ScotsFan on September 10, 2008, 12:28:06 AM
If you want to take solace in the fact that a middle of the road at best NCAC team almost took down your nationally ranked Presidents, more power to ya...  I don't think I would be looking at things as positively as you seem to be seeing it.

And as for the spread, I know it isn't anything official.  But the guy that runs the NCAC Pick 'em contest is usually pretty spot on in determining spreads of games and he had the Yeomen actually at 34 1/2 point dogs FWIW...  So actually, I was being generous in stating that Oberlin was only a 30 point underdog.

Fact, Oberlin was 3rd in a 10-team conference last year, up one spot from the year before.
Fact, Oberlin is a better team this year than they were last year.
Fact, Wooster only saw the south end of the northbound '07 Yoemen.
Fact, Nov. 8, you'll get to make a first-hand evaluation of the Yoemen.
Fact, 30 or 34.5 point spreads set by "the guy that runs the NCAC Pick 'em contest" aren't worth really anything, at least not to me.  Try spending that at the gas station and see if they'll give you even a nickle a gallon off the price...

FWIW--I don't typically find much worthwhile in point spreads, not in the pros, the D-I's and certainly not at the D-III level.  I find much more value in "did you win the games you were supposed to win", in evaluating where things could have been done better, and in finding ways to improve those areas over which you have control.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2008, 08:49:08 AM
Bob,

You're right...maybe not bounce back...but I'd hate to be their next opponent.


Thomas More is off this week and then travel to Waynesburg..  What should I expect Scotsfan?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on September 10, 2008, 09:27:30 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2008, 08:48:58 AM

Fact, Oberlin was 3rd in a 10-team conference last year, up one spot from the year before.
Fact, Oberlin is a better team this year than they were last year.
Fact, Wooster only saw the south end of the northbound '07 Yoemen.
Fact, Nov. 8, you'll get to make a first-hand evaluation of the Yoemen.
Fact, 30 or 34.5 point spreads set by "the guy that runs the NCAC Pick 'em contest" aren't worth really anything, at least not to me.  Try spending that at the gas station and see if they'll give you even a nickle a gallon off the price...

FWIW--I don't typically find much worthwhile in point spreads, not in the pros, the D-I's and certainly not at the D-III level.  I find much more value in "did you win the games you were supposed to win", in evaluating where things could have been done better, and in finding ways to improve those areas over which you have control.
Looks like someone forgot to take their happy pill...  ::)

Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2008, 08:49:08 AM
Thomas More is off this week and then travel to Waynesburg..  What should I expect Scotsfan?
I'll have to wait until I see the spread...  :P  ::)

BTW, have fun talking amongst yourselves again...  All I was trying to do was stir up a little conversation in an otherwise fairly slow PAC message board but I had forgotten how overly sensitive W&J fans can get...  ::)  At least there doesn't appear to be any more of the obnoxious vanilla ice wannabes in here any more.  A start I guess...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2008, 10:17:59 AM
Why run off now, Scotsfan?  You wanted to "stir up a little conversation in an otherwise fairly slow PAC message board".  Now, having accomplished that, you run away because somebody didn't agree with your stirring utensil?

We don't have to agree to converse.  In fact, the exercise itself is more engaging, more beneficial if the parties DON'T agree.  But, that just the way one old, unhappy, overly-sensitive W&J person sees it.

Nice talking with you.  Sorry you had to leave just when the discussion got stirred up.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 10, 2008, 11:40:06 AM
Oberlin was also 5-5 overall last year, let's not forget. And because of the NCAC schedule, Oberlin didn't play Ohio Wesleyan or Wooster. They played the No. 1 and No. 2 teams, thankfully, but not No. 4 and No. 5.

Beat No. 6, beat No. 7, beat No. 8, beat No. 9, beat No. 10. Lost to No. 1 and No. 2.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on September 10, 2008, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2008, 10:17:59 AM
Why run off now, Scotsfan?  You wanted to "stir up a little conversation in an otherwise fairly slow PAC message board".  Now, having accomplished that, you run away because somebody didn't agree with your stirring utensil?
We don't have to agree to converse.  In fact, the exercise itself is more engaging, more beneficial if the parties DON'T agree.  But, that just the way one old, unhappy, overly-sensitive W&J person sees it.

Nice talking with you.  Sorry you had to leave just when the discussion got stirred up.


Not running away...  Just have better things to do with my time than waste it in here discussing utensils...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2008, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on September 09, 2008, 11:47:24 AM
[....perennial NCAC bottom dweller Oberlin.....

Fact, Mr. Runaway, Oberlin hasn't dwelt at the bottom of the NCAC since 2000.
Fact, in three of the ensuing seasons, the Yoemen have been closer to the TOP of NCAC than the bottom, including finishing ahead of Wooster a couple times.

Perhaps W&J will need to "bounce back" from their WIN over the Yoemen.  Perhaps Wooster will have to beat Wittenberg on the season's final day to "bounce back" from a loss at Savage.  I guess we'll have to wait and see...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2008, 01:09:54 PM
scotsfan,

I thought you were at the game.  I'm hoping Waynesburg puts up 70 this week so they think everything is fine....so maybe, just maybe we can sneak up on them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 10, 2008, 01:52:56 PM
It's time to put aside the banter about Oberlin and talk about whether W&J can keep Frostburg State from scoring 35 points!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2008, 02:20:08 PM
Actually, chief, the way things have gone for years for the Presidents in the regular season, keeping Frostburg from scoring 35 isn't the question.  It's can the offense click well enough to score more?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2008, 02:51:45 PM
They do play very tough on defense....as Thomas More has found out in previous years. 

Does W&J miss having the Hanover series on the schedule.  Talk about a drop off...that used to be a great game, before the Panthers slide in the last four years.

Sidenote:  I work i with a former Hanover player...nothing gives me more joy than to ask him if he saw what Hanover did on the previous Saturday.. when they get their @sses kicked. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 10, 2008, 03:58:48 PM
Bob and Saints fan

There used to be a time not so long ago when 17 to 21 points from the offense was all that was needed to win. The defense would either pitch a shutout or give up a cheap score near the end of the game. Now, incredulously, 50 points may not be enough. No wonder pundits and pollsters look at W&J with a skeptical eye.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2008, 04:29:44 PM
Chief, believe me, I know those days, very well.

Nearly every game since 1984...

For many years, it was could the offense score. That's all they needed to do to win.

Now, it's can they score enough?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2008, 01:47:09 PM
Heller to miss Waynesburg/Hanover game:

D3Football.com story (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2008/09/11/hellers-record-pursuit-slowed/)


Observer-Reporter story (http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/09-12-08-Heller-hurt-Waynesburg)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2008, 11:42:04 PM
I guess the Presidents bounced back...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 15, 2008, 09:47:10 AM
I would say so.  49 points against Frostburg is good.  The rest of the PAC didn't, in my opinoin, bounce back. 

Hopefully Heller gets healthy soon, but not this week.  He needs another week to get well..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 15, 2008, 03:55:27 PM
now 25, and falling....

Guess that Wooster dude didn't really leave....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 16, 2008, 09:23:19 AM
SaintsFan...

I flew up for the game and the Bison looked pertty much like last year. Little defense to stop either run or pass but did cause five turnovers. Had two other takeaways nullified by officials plus another long TD called back by a phantom out of bounds call.

Offense ran the ball much more than last year I think to protect freshman QB. Top WRs only caught 5 balls all day but three were big plays.

Nothing to get excited about, probably be competitive against middle of PAC when at home but trouble on the road as previous years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: theotherguy on September 16, 2008, 03:10:03 PM
i noticed that the W & J defense gave up 21 points ( 14 actually, the O gave up a pick 6 ). id say that is an improvement... looks like their getting better. maybe there is hope! are the running a different defense than in years past?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 16, 2008, 04:09:00 PM
Some changes, but nothing too drastic..playing with 5 dbs..but I think the linebackers need to play tighter and more aggresive..would like to see more pressure from the down linemen, but which D coordinator wouldn't. The defense is coming along..hopefully as the season progresses the offense won't be asked (or need) to score 40 to 50 points.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on September 16, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
This is my first year watching D3 football. I didn't know what to expect at first, but I do admit to being a little disappointed. I attended the Waynesburg vs Wooster game and it looked much like a scrimmage. I'm not sure that camp is long enough to get the athletes ready. Even high school gets 2 weeks of camp.

Just judging by general confusion on the field.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 16, 2008, 10:56:14 PM
Quote from: stingdad on September 16, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
This is my first year watching D3 football. I didn't know what to expect at first, but I do admit to being a little disappointed. I attended the Waynesburg vs Wooster game and it looked much like a scrimmage. I'm not sure that camp is long enough to get the athletes ready. Even high school gets 2 weeks of camp.

Just judging by general confusion on the field.

Division III gets 21 practice opportunities before the first game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2008, 01:02:07 PM
Pat,

Apparently Stingdad sent his kids to a HS that takes liberties with extra practices! 


At any rate, glad to have a new face on here, Stingdad.... welcome aboard.  I hope you and your son enjoy the D3 experience as much as I did.  Its truly the last frontier of "pure" football....players that play football because they like to. 


Any predictions this weekend? 

Thomas More has a tough road trip...followed by a tough game against Waynesburg.  As young as they are, this trip will challenge the Saints' resolve before they step on the field up there.  Then, they have to contend with a good Shepas-coached team (with or without Heller). 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on September 17, 2008, 01:53:37 PM
Well there was that summer passing league....

It just looked like there were plenty of mental errors that really cost Waynesburg the game.  You just can't keep giving the ball back to the other team and expect to win games.

I'm excited about this weeks game (Heller or not!). I think the teams should be better prepared now, both mentally and phyiscally. Enjoy the game SaintsFan if you are going to be there! I plan on  it win, lose or draw.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 17, 2008, 02:29:53 PM
Quote from: stingdad on September 17, 2008, 01:53:37 PM
Well there was that summer passing league....

Those are OK. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2008, 02:40:29 PM
I will not be there, but will be paying attention via internet. 

I have a few trips planned in the near future (fun-based excursions), and I couldn't justify a trip to West Virsylvania.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 17, 2008, 04:33:27 PM
Guys,

I'm looking forward to a night game at GC this weekend. I've been to so many high school games that I just enjoy the evening football more. Then I'm back to Florida for a couple weeks until TMC comes to Bethany for homecoming. All these contests should be competitve games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 17, 2008, 06:11:26 PM
Willy,

Why not head to Greenville for an afternoon tilt first?

Doubleheaders are lots of fun, even in football.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on September 18, 2008, 09:22:41 AM
Quote from: South Willy on September 17, 2008, 04:33:27 PM
Guys,

I'm looking forward to a night game at GC this weekend. I've been to so many high school games that I just enjoy the evening football more. Then I'm back to Florida for a couple weeks until TMC comes to Bethany for homecoming. All these contests should be competitve games.
Make sure you buy a copy (or two) of "Wolverine Primetime" Saturday night :)

If any of you in the area (western Pa., eastern Ohio, northern W. Va.) are looking for something to do, the Bethany-Grove City game should be a blast under the lights. Last year's night game (Grove City-Waynesburg) was an unbelievable atmosphere and hopefully this year will be the same at Thorn Field.

The students are doing a "whiteout" again this year and there will be fireworks after the game.

And as Bob wrote, the opportunity for a doubleheader exists also as Grove City and Thiel are just 25 miles apart on state route 58.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 18, 2008, 10:14:36 AM
Thanks for suggestion Bob. I'll work on getting out of Wheeling early and maybe catch 2nd half of the afternoon game.

SaintsFAN...Looks like you get WC without Heller.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2008, 12:25:07 PM
Waynesburg will be without All-American runningback Robert Heller, who, according to Yellowjacket mentor Rick Shepas, has left the program. 

"As of right now, as far as Robert Heller is concerned, I mean, he has been stating that he has a high ankle sprain. I mean, we don't really have a lot of evidence to that effect. He hasn't visited with our trainers to validate any of those things....and actually hasn't been with the program, you know, since, you know, we haven't seen him very much at all since the Wooster game. So, you know, in our program we've moved forward.  You know, he's a great athlete and a great player and while he resolves his issues we've just chosen to move forward."

This quote comes from the PAC Football Report (linked below), starting at the 2:50 mark.

PAC Football Weekly Podcast (http://www.pacathletics.org/mp3/PAC092008.mp3)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2008, 01:17:05 PM
Thats a pretty major blow to Waynesburg... from D3.com Pre-season All American to this.. 

Wonder whats going on there... sounds like there's something going on behind the scenes. 

At any rate, I'm sure Thomas More is still facing a quality opponent in Waynesburg.. they've got a couple guys carrying the load for them instead of Heller, and have had some success with them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 19, 2008, 01:46:52 PM
SaintsFAN...

I think your boys will take them Saturday. Morale can't be good in Waynesburg and they really haven't played anything like last year in their first two games.

UPSET SPECIAL...TMC-28  WC-21
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wabashcpa on September 19, 2008, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2008, 12:25:07 PM
"As of right now, as far as Robert Heller is concerned, I mean, he has been stating that he has a high ankle sprain. I mean, we don't really have a lot of evidence to that effect. He hasn't visited with our trainers to validate any of those things....and actually hasn't been with the program, you know, since, you know, we haven't seen him very much at all since the Wooster game. So, you know, in our program we've moved forward.  You know, he's a great athlete and a great player and while he resolves his issues we've just chosen to move forward."

This quote comes from the PAC Football Report (linked below), starting at the 2:50 mark.

PAC Football Weekly Podcast (http://www.pacathletics.org/mp3/PAC092008.mp3)

I didn't believe that this was an actual, you know, quote until I listened to the, you know, podcast.  But, sure enough, you know, it was verbatim!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2008, 10:48:23 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 19, 2008, 01:46:52 PM
SaintsFAN...

I think your boys will take them Saturday. Morale can't be good in Waynesburg and they really haven't played anything like last year in their first two games.

UPSET SPECIAL...TMC-28  WC-21

It sounds like they've moved on mentally and with that sophomore RB..  Guaranteed they are circling the wagons..  I'm seeing a Thomas More win myself...but hard fought.. 20-17.   The young talented backfield for the Saints comes through... the PAC is introduced to freshman Anthony Knott and Kendall Owens...along with the proven combo of Collier and Stellman. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 20, 2008, 12:33:43 AM
Your point is, you know, what, CPA?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2008, 08:10:42 AM
You know, I don't know if I like the tone the conversation has taken on here. 

Where are all the W&J guys this year?  You know, last year they were pretty much, you know, everywhere.  You know, since you know W&J has 8 more games, I mean, we should probably see a few more of them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2008, 07:21:27 PM
Good road win for the young Thomas More team today at Waynesburg.  Sounds like the defense played really well, only giving up one TD.  Waynesburg has a weapon at kicker, they'll get the offense back on track. 

Westminster comes to play on the new field this week at TMC... Homecoming and alot of former players are going to be back on campus. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 21, 2008, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2008, 12:25:07 PM
Waynesburg will be without All-American runningback Robert Heller, who, according to Yellowjacket mentor Rick Shepas, has left the program. 

"As of right now, as far as Robert Heller is concerned, I mean, he has been stating that he has a high ankle sprain. I mean, we don't really have a lot of evidence to that effect. He hasn't visited with our trainers to validate any of those things....and actually hasn't been with the program, you know, since, you know, we haven't seen him very much at all since the Wooster game. So, you know, in our program we've moved forward.  You know, he's a great athlete and a great player and while he resolves his issues we've just chosen to move forward."

This quote comes from the PAC Football Report (linked below), starting at the 2:50 mark.

PAC Football Weekly Podcast (http://www.pacathletics.org/mp3/PAC092008.mp3)

I find that interesting because the O-R had an article on Heller and him quoting his 'injury' around the same time Shepas noted he hasn't been seen.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on September 21, 2008, 07:56:35 PM
Becker looks to be a good running back, but doesn't really have the moves that Heller did. But as I recall before the season started, Heller was looking to move to Slippery Rock and I have also heard a rumor about Mount Union.

I just know in the first game he missed picking up the blitzing back 5 times. Then he would slap himself in the helmet for blowing his assignment.  We turned the ball over 3 times yesterday, 2 more interceptions and a fumble. It looks like they are getting gunshy about throwing the ball now judging by the number of times it was 3rd and long and they tried running the ball.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 22, 2008, 10:35:14 AM
Saints Fan

Maybe W&J posters are waiting for the defense to show up at the games.. Who knows? Thought it was amusing to read the game summary of the TM-Wbg game, and see that Robert Heller kicked all those field goals. The freshman kicker wore Heller's No.. 3..thus the confusion. Nonetheless, congrats on a big win. I think TM might well be the President's biggest challenge this year, especially playing in Ky. Concern I have is if the offense somehow falters, the defense is not prepared to be a gamesaver, unless things begin to improve immediately. Grove City put up 41 points against Bethany, so they must have some fire power.. Don't really know anything about Bethany's D, though.

I think it will be a very interesting year in the PAC.  Frankly, it could be a toss up when November comes around
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 22, 2008, 12:20:59 PM
I made the trip up to Grove City and the night game had great atmosphere and a big croud. Strangle game as neither team could stop the other in the first half and BC could have had a larger lead except for two turnovers. Then we started the second half and nobody could move the ball via ground or air until GC's final drive.
I think the PAC will be pretty much what we said prior to the season, an even group of teams, except maybe W & J, playing some very competitive games.

SaintsFAN... Great win at Waynesburg and looking forward to Homecoming at BC in two weeks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on September 23, 2008, 08:41:40 AM
Quote from: stingdad on September 16, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
This is my first year watching D3 football. I didn't know what to expect at first, but I do admit to being a little disappointed. I attended the Waynesburg vs Wooster game and it looked much like a scrimmage. I'm not sure that camp is long enough to get the athletes ready. Even high school gets 2 weeks of camp.

Just judging by general confusion on the field.



Gotta remember Stingdad, this is little more than high school football minus the best players who have gone away to play Division I & II. My first exposure to D3 was the W&J v. Waynesburg game in 2003. At first I thought I was watching a tape of the game being played at 3/4 speed, then it occurred to me that with the D3 scholarship ban, I couldn't expect to see the kind of performance that characterized the Waynesburg teams of the '60s. Many of the "stars" of D3, like Robert Heller, have got to harbor in their minds the thought that they could also make a big splash in DII and maybe even DI and that they are wasting their time and talent in non-scholarship football. Robert Heller seems to me to be one of those confused young men. He needs to make a final decision soon to either go elswhere and eliminate a great distraction at Waynesburg or retake the field at Wiley Stadium give it all he's got and make the best of his situation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 23, 2008, 11:35:44 AM
Not so sure the decision is Heller's to make
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 23, 2008, 11:55:58 AM
Quote from: Bureau chief on September 23, 2008, 11:35:44 AM
Not so sure the decision is Heller's to make

Not sure why you'd think that, chief.

Shepas said "...while he resolves his issues..."

Sounds like the HC is saying Mr. Heller has decisions to make.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 23, 2008, 12:26:08 PM
Well Bob, if we believe what is written and quoted it seems no one is quite sure whether he is injured or not. Shepas said Heller has not been treated by the school's training staff; hasn't been around much since the Wooster game; didn't accompany team to Hanover, but instead watched W&J and Frostburg; contemplated transferring after last year. This can't be sitting well with his teammates.

How long is Shepas willing to let Heller "resolve his issues?" This whole thing is playing out like a Shakesperean tragedy. I am willing to bet, despite all the discord surrounding the Heller saga, that if he  does resolve whatever issues he has, he will back in the lineup.

Maybe his teammates should be asked if they want him back. The longer this festers without a resolution, I think the Wbg. program is going to suffer.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 23, 2008, 01:28:12 PM
The PAC Web page reports in its week 4 conference notes: "Waynesburg head coach Rick Shepas announced that preseason All-American sophomore RB Robert Heller has left the Yellow Jacket program." Not sure if Shepas made that announcement before he commented on the "resolution of issues" thing.

Nonetheless, it appears the "tragedy" has been played out (even though no one died)

"Tragic heroes contribute to their own destruction by acts in which we see a flaw in their character, or, by tragic error."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 23, 2008, 02:14:11 PM
Interesting story on Heller but I can't understand why he would leave the program. We've seen reports that he talked transfer with MUC, Pitt and a buddy told me Heller talked with Slippery Rock & California,Pa. It appears his real problem has nothing to do with football but rather he isn't eligible to compete at other programs. Shepas said he was OK after of summer school but if that's the case, he should have been OK at the other schools, except maybe D1 Pitt.

Sounds like Heller's next stop may be playing his football at an NAIA university or Community College.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mad Anthony on September 23, 2008, 02:18:46 PM

Nonetheless, it appears the "tragedy" has been played out (even though no one died)

"Tragic heroes contribute to their own destruction by acts in which we see a flaw in their character, or, by tragic error."
[/quote]

But... Is this the Tragic Resolution ?
Whatever that may be, in the interim, Waynesburg needs to assume that the King is dead so that they can concentrate on attempting to salvage what was a very promising season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 23, 2008, 02:23:57 PM
chief, the audio podcast last week said (Joe Onderko speaking) "according to Yellow Jacket mentor Rick Shepas, 'has left the program'".

Shepas never said those words in the interview segment that the PAC report featured.

The Observer-Reporter articles on Heller and the Jackets loss to Thomas More contained a quote attributed to Shepas, stating that Heller "is not with the team."
OR Waynesburg vs Thomas More (http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/09-21-Wyanburg-University-Thomas-More)

Is that "is not with the team"?
Is that "is not with the team today"?
Is that "is not with the team this week"?
Is that "is not with the team this year"?
Is that "is not with the team ever again"?

I still believe that the decisions to be made first are those rattling around the head of a 20-ish year old, talented, but troubled young man.

Once those decisions have been squared, then, and only then, does the University, the coaching staff and "former" teammates have any decisions to make.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on September 23, 2008, 02:29:33 PM
I don't really know, and I am getting to the point I don't really care

One last Shakespeare reference: "Much ado about nothing."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dr. Acula on September 23, 2008, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 23, 2008, 02:14:11 PM
Interesting story on Heller but I can't understand why he would leave the program. We've seen reports that he talked transfer with MUC, Pitt and a buddy told me Heller talked with Slippery Rock & California,Pa. It appears his real problem has nothing to do with football but rather he isn't eligible to compete at other programs. Shepas said he was OK after of summer school but if that's the case, he should have been OK at the other schools, except maybe D1 Pitt.

Sounds like Heller's next stop may be playing his football at an NAIA university or Community College.

If that's the case then I wish him success academically first.  No doubt it would be a shame to lose his talent on the field, but it would be a far bigger shame for him to not reach his potential in the classroom.  Wow, I sound like my parents.  That's not good...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 23, 2008, 10:13:25 PM
I'll say it, though I have no proof (but this is a message board):  I have heard on several occasions that Heller is lazy when it came to his academics, and some even said he was 'dumb as a rock'.   Now, I don't know how valid the latter is, but obviously he didn't meet the role of 'student/athlete'.

That leads me to the comment earlier that I read about how D3 players "is little more than high school football minus the best players who have gone away to play Division I & II."

I disagree with that remark to a degree.  Most players are obviously not meeting the criterea of Division I football, but Division II I don't feel is a huge jump in many scenarios.

Not to get into 'war stories', but when I played at W&J, I had a choice between playing there and having scholarship opportunities at several Division II schools in the PSAC, as well as some I-AA opportunities.  I wasn't alone, and there were plenty of folks I played with more talented than myself.   Once I looked at the academic opportunities, I decided I would much rather play at what is reported as a 'lower division' of football, and have a better edcuation in my opinion after four years.

I know of many kids that are in the same situation today, and would not play at some Division II schools due to better academic opportunities, and getting grant money that would not be any difference (or little difference) in paying for an education that one would get in a scholarship offer at a Division II level.   Not to name certain schools, but those admission standards aren't as solid as a W&J, or Grove City for example. 

It's all subjective.  I have watched programs around my area on the Division II and III level that had players that probably were not very talented.  I think there are Division III programs you could put in the PSAC or match against the Robert Morris' and Duquesne's in my area and be just as competitive (I believe they are IAA on a partial scholarship basis). 

That previous post put the student/athlete on the Division III level as someone that has been hashed through DI and DII levels, and have no further option than to play at DIII.  I disagree with that strongly, and there are many reasons despite athletically that someone plays at that level.   On the global scale there are better athletes on the DII level, but let's not paint with such a broad brush.  There is plenty of talent at the DIII level, and many programs where DII athletes could not compete academically or athletically.




















Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 23, 2008, 10:18:33 PM
agreed, burgboy.. 

Same deal here for me, only bigger boat.  I had Ohio St* and Notre Dame** after me..  but I wanted crappier competition, so I went D3. 

Seriously, I've heard the same things about Heller (both cases).  Lets just hope he gets his $hit together before its too late for HIM.  Forget Waynesburg..  they knew the risk when they recruited him.. they'll survive. 

*a normal college recruiter came to visit my school.  It got me out of 3rd period science.. hell no was any football involved.

** threw that in there, because I tried like hell to get into ND.  Even with a cousin's husband a tenured professor in South Bend, I couldn't get in. 

I also disagree with the previous notion about D3...there are MANY reasons one ends up at Division 3. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 23, 2008, 10:31:17 PM
Love the sarcasm Saints. :)  I agree with what you are saying.

Another example since I work in a local school district, as well as my wife:  There is a kid that has record breaking high school numbers here, and had some sniffs from Division I schools, though not as a running back.  Good kid, but not the brightest bulb.

He went to a DI program, and was highly overmatched.   Flunked out after a semester, and came back home.  He was interested at that time in coming to W&J, but the administration and coaching staff (at that time) could not find any way to bring that kid to school with his academic issues. 

Kid ended up playing at DII, and never graduated, which was a shame.  In all honesty with the talent level at the time at W&J, I don't know if he would have done more than split time.   I'm not making that a case for W&J, because there are plenty of programs that are better at the DIII level (as evidenced by their loss to an 8th seed on home turf last year and quick oustings in recent playoff competition).

DIII is not a basket for student/athletes that want to play and have no choice elsewhere. 




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on September 24, 2008, 11:27:37 AM
If he isn't serious about the academic part, then scratch Mount Union off the list.  Shepas might have needed his football talent enough to overlook his academic shortcomings, but that isn't the case with Kehres anymore.    I'm not saying Mount is Ivy League, but LK has built enough depth and talent into his program that he doesn't need to take a risk on a questionable transfer simply because the kid has football talent.  That might have been the case when LK was building MUC up, but not anymore.

Sounds like Heller is pissing away more than just his football playing days.  And even if he does land somewhere else, it's probably only a matter of time before he's done there too.   For his sake, I hope he gets his head screwed on right.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 24, 2008, 11:47:44 AM
I wonder if Heller is actually still taking classes at Waynesburg as he said? In a smaller school campus, he would be face to face with teammates and coaches all day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on September 24, 2008, 06:57:50 PM
I'll ask around and see if I can find out. I feel bad for the kid, but he needs some head tightening from someone (and it would be better to do it on his own).  Waynesburg definitely has some work to do if they want to make the post season.

Their defense needs to start playing hard right after the national athem instead of waiting 25 minutes like they have the last 2 home games! ;D And they need to quit turning the ball over. You don't win many games when you're on the wrong side of the turnover ratio.

Hoping for a great game against St. Vincent this weekend before the bye.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 27, 2008, 09:52:09 AM
Where are all the PAC fans. At least your teams are playing this week. Bison are idle with nothing but a JV game yesterday. Only tough pick this week might be Geneva/Thiel but I will go with Thiel, W & J, Waynesburg and Thomas More.

Everyone have a great weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 27, 2008, 08:27:02 PM
Great win by Thomas More today.  10-10 at Halftime as the Thomas More team was feeling the Titans out....and Saints come out and play with their hair on fire in the 3rd Quarter.  The team speed was the difference today as Thomas More made Westminster look slow.  Final 31-10.

Next week is a tricky roadtrip at Bethany.  We haven't played well the last two trips up there.  Hopefully we get some great efforts from the defense and come out with another decisive win. 

It would be nice to see Thomas More go through one game without having a crappy call go against them- today's was Kendall Owens' 80+ yard punt return for a touchdown that saw a holding flag come from the referee's pocket AFTER he was 15 yards downfield and no action was taking place at that spot.  I can only imagine that with TMC 2-0 in PAC play this year (first time we've started 2-0), its not going to get better. 

Is the PAC wide open this year?  I certainly hope so.. I think Thomas More has a shot, if they continue to play with tremendous heart and speed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on September 28, 2008, 08:27:49 AM
Yeah, your Saints really took it to my alma mater yesterday.  I was able to listen to the second half over the internet.  Westminster doesn't have the speed to play with good teams.  If their offense can't score, the Titans will lose, as they did yesterday.

I think Thomas More has the best chance of unseating W & J, if not this year, maybe next.  Unfortunately for Westminster, I don't see them close to competing for a PAC championship for a long time.  Their progam is going downhill right now. 

By the way, there is a Pick'ems board set up for the PAC now.  It seems that I am the only one posting on it.  I wish that others would post and pick games so I don't feel as though I am talking to myself....

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 28, 2008, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on September 28, 2008, 08:27:49 AM
Yeah, your Saints really took it to my alma mater yesterday.  I was able to listen to the second half over the internet.  Westminster doesn't have the speed to play with good teams.  If their offense can't score, the Titans will lose, as they did yesterday.

I think Thomas More has the best chance of unseating W & J, if not this year, maybe next.  Unfortunately for Westminster, I don't see them close to competing for a PAC championship for a long time.  Their progam is going downhill right now. 

Not trying to be insulting here, but it appeared to me that Westminster just isn't fast enough to defend a spread offense (I think this is what Heidelberg did to them as well) and has an offense doesn't have much besides some quick throws because of a real lack of speed on offense as well.  They may not be far away...but they've got to get some speedy recruits, IMO. 

Hopefully this is the year, as you say, that Thomas More challenges W&J...but, that remains to be seen.  Though, we've got some tough games ahead of us...starting with a road trip this week to Bethany.  I know Bethany has our full, undivided attention because of the way we've performed up there in the past.  In addition to Thomas More taking the Bison seriously, they need to really play well up there too.  Its too early to start talking about challenging W&J for Thomas More since we don't play the Presidents until November 1st. 

I think its going to be a wacky PAC Conference Season... the conference strength may be down, but parity is going to ensure that the champion keeps its focus from week to week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 29, 2008, 10:14:33 AM
SaintsFAN...Looking forward to Homecoming this week. Should be a good game. Bethany for whatever reason shut down the passing game at Grove City after scoring 35 in the first half. Bixon should have beaten GC as bad as W & J did yesteday.
TMC speed won't be an issue for Bison and keys to the game IMO are:

1. Bison freshman QB needs to do a better job in getting the ball to receivers on time and limit mistakes
2. The Bison Defense - No one knows what we'll get game to game.

I expect TMC to play well, much better than last years game.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on September 29, 2008, 08:40:10 PM
I hear that Heller is still taking classes at Waynesburg.

Waynesburg looked much better defensively against STV this week. Offensively they still were hit and miss, but we did complete some passes to some different people! Waynesburg has the bye this week which coincides with my work schedule nicely.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 01, 2008, 12:42:12 PM
deleted reply to a chicken (registered, posted, deleted registration)...

No sense leaving the reply with the original...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2008, 01:22:47 PM
Pat,

I didn't think guests could post on here? 

I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck this is coming from a Waynesburg address. 


foozeball,

So he's better than d3 or d2?  Doubt that.  Good luck with Arena2 football in the future though....because the Grammar classes haven't worked out. ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 01, 2008, 01:26:01 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2008, 01:22:47 PM
Pat,

I didn't think guests could post on here? 

I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck this is coming from a Waynesburg address. 


foozeball,

So he's better than d3 or d2?  Doubt that.  Good luck with Arena2 football in the future though....because the Grammar classes haven't worked out. ;D

Yeah, they can't post on here but they can register, post, and then delete themselves.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 01, 2008, 01:36:09 PM
I usually then delete those posts if people aren't willing to stand up for them.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2008, 12:52:29 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 29, 2008, 10:14:33 AM
SaintsFAN...Looking forward to Homecoming this week. Should be a good game. Bethany for whatever reason shut down the passing game at Grove City after scoring 35 in the first half. Bixon should have beaten GC as bad as W & J did yesteday.
TMC speed won't be an issue for Bison and keys to the game IMO are:

1. Bison freshman QB needs to do a better job in getting the ball to receivers on time and limit mistakes
2. The Bison Defense - No one knows what we'll get game to game.

I expect TMC to play well, much better than last years game.



*Sounds like Bethany is trying to commit to running the ball this year.  I believe Thomas More and Bethany come in as the top 2 PAC Team leaders in RYPG.  It will be interesting to see how the experienced TMC LB's respond to Bethany's preferred method of attack this week. 
*Hopefully our team speed surprises Bethany.  It starts when we receive the kick. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2008, 07:51:49 PM
W&J leading Geneva, 21-0 7:00 left in the 2Q.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 06, 2008, 03:15:43 PM
SaintsFAN...

Your boys played very well on Saturday and the team speed did burn the Bison on several plays, almost all right up the middle. My son enjoyed a good day but we were no match for TMC. Good Luck down the road.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2008, 07:23:40 PM
I listened to the game.. your son ALWAYS burns us.  Always.  I'm not one to gloat or anything like that so I didn't post much, as I will continue to do... but the team speed is something I haven't seen at Thomas More since the 1995 or 2000-2001 teams. 

I still think we're a year away from realizing full potential.

Good luck to BC the rest of the season.. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 08, 2008, 08:34:43 PM
where the hell is everyone??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 08, 2008, 09:31:49 PM
Bye week for me....

Having fun over on the Top 25 and Pool B boards
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 09, 2008, 07:54:21 AM
I see you, Bob. 

Hopefully both of our teams can stay unbeaten for another couple weeks and then have a great game. 

Though, I'm not quite ready to see Swallow complete 90% on us again this year....damn, that guy is accurate.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on October 11, 2008, 05:37:59 PM
Well my alma mater, Westminster, gave up 63 points to Waynesburg on Saturday.  That is the fourth worst loss in school history.  The previous fourth worst loss was earlier this year at Heidelberg (62-27).  The last time they gave up more points was to Pitt in 1926 (88-0).  That's two games giving up over 60 points and they haven't even played W & J yet!  I dread the score of that game.

I didn't see today's debacle, but I did see the Heidelberg loss.  Even more disheartening is the fact that Heidelberg has lost their last four games.  They lost today to previously winless Ohio Northern 41-0!

I am picking against WC for this Saturday's homecoming game (See my picks on the Pick-ems board.)  I hope that I am wrong and the Titans turn it around.  I will be at that game.  Good luck Titans....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on October 11, 2008, 08:54:08 PM
Spikegrouchy, I was at today's game and the score says that Westminster was terrible, but they really weren't. The interceptions killed them especially the 2 that were run back for touchdowns.

I will say that this was the best game I've seen Waynesburg play this year. Both the offense and defense looked good.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2008, 10:56:29 AM
Thomas More keeps rolling against St. Vincent, 34-7.   They got three long TD runs by two of the freshman RBs.   The Saints need to find ways to get by Grove City this weekend on the road, and the following weekend when Thiel comes to Bank of Kentucky Stadium.  Then and only then, can we start to think about W & J. 

The offense is explosive --though they can drive the field too.  My excitement is tempered by the fact that Thomas More's 3-0 conference record has come against three teams (Waynesburg, Westminster, Bethany) that have a combined two PAC wins.  No doubt that the real test is ahead and not behind us. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 13, 2008, 09:56:27 AM
South Willy,

We play at Grove City on Saturday and we're their Homecoming game.  You've seen both teams, what do you think about this game? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 13, 2008, 10:49:29 AM
SaintsFAN...

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about Grove City. Bison scored 35 on them by halftime and your offense is as good if not faster than mine. I think TMC defense will handle their run game so it will be up to their QB to keep them in the game. TMC looked much better at BC than GC did at home against the Bison.

Bison should have beaten GC but scored "0" points after halftime. BC lead Thiel 28-7 at half Saturday but again scored "0" second half points to get into an overtime mess. Not sure what's breaking down after halftime but Qb seems to throw for plenty of yards until things get tight and then can't hit a key play.

Spikegrouchy...I wouldn't worry much about next week. Bison "D" couldn't stop a good high school offense. I will say if both teams play as they have, I'd take the "over" even if it's a 100.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 13, 2008, 10:57:55 AM
Thanks for the insight, Willy. 

Inspite of your analysis, I know Thomas More needs to play their best game of the year to date.  Grove City is another team thats had our number in recent years and we have to continue to play as we have -- play fast, and play mistake free.  This team hasn't turned the ball over much and I think thats a key...along with not being able to focus on one RB.. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on October 13, 2008, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: South Willy on October 13, 2008, 10:49:29 AM

Spikegrouchy...I wouldn't worry much about next week. Bison "D" couldn't stop a good high school offense. I will say if both teams play as they have, I'd take the "over" even if it's a 100.

Well the way Westminster turns the ball over, even a high school team could beat them!  They had a bunch of turnovers last year in a loss to the Bison.

I am hoping that in the future the PAC will become more competitive with other conferences.  I don't know what the problem is.  I always thought that western PA was a "hotbed" for football talent.  Surely not everyone is going to Division 1 or 2 (or even worse...Mt. Union), are they?  I would like to see a PAC team make it past the first or second round of the playoffs in my lifetime!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 13, 2008, 11:33:12 PM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on October 13, 2008, 06:39:38 PM

I am hoping that in the future the PAC will become more competitive with other conferences.  I don't know what the problem is.  I always thought that western PA was a "hotbed" for football talent.  Surely not everyone is going to Division 1 or 2 (or even worse...Mt. Union), are they?  I would like to see a PAC team make it past the first or second round of the playoffs in my lifetime!




Well, I would say you type pretty well for a two year old.  W&J made it past the first round in 2006, and past the second round in 2004.

That said,  I agree about the point you are attempting to make in that the conference would be more enjoyable to watch if it were more competitive, but I believe that  A.) Western Pa is questioned as a 'hotbed' and B.) if it were, doesn't neccessarily equate to kids filling up Division III rosters at Western Pa colleges.

As I mentioned before here, there are many reasons why people attend colleges at this level and at these respective schools.  I doubt football is the main reason in most cases.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2008, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: Matt Florjancic, Around the Great Lakes
The early-season struggles for Washington and Jefferson.....



Five double-digits wins (+14, +28. +10, +28, +29)
Top 10 D3Football.com ranking (THE D3 Football Authority)

Team:
#11 Total Offense  454 yards/game
#3 Scoring Offense  44.8 points/game
#8 Passing Offense
#11 Pass Efficiency Offense
#21 Rushing Defense

Individual:
#2 Scoring--Curt Jones, 16.5 points per game
#7 Passing Yards--Bobby Swallow, 305.6 yards per game
#9 Total Offense--Bobby Swallow, 311.6 yards per game
#13 Receiving Yards--Craig Besong, 119 yards per game
#19 Pass Efficiency--Bobby Swallow, 161.8 rating
#19 Receptions--David Ravida, 8 receptions per game

Good thing for Oberlin, Frostburg State, Thiel, Grove City and Geneva that the Presidents had "early-season struggles", eh........
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2008, 05:09:51 PM
Oberlin's season high in points is against W&J, while Thiel's second-highest season scoring total is against the Presidents. It's a fair assertion.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on October 14, 2008, 06:41:26 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 13, 2008, 11:33:12 PM

Well, I would say you type pretty well for a two year old.  W&J made it past the first round in 2006, and past the second round in 2004.


Thanks the_burghboy, I really appreciate your "positive" comment. 

But you are right about W & J making it past the second round in 2004 (and lost at home by 38 points!).  But let's go back to 2000 and list the PAC champions and how they fared...

2000  W & J lost in the first round to Bridgewater 59-42
2001  W & J lost in the second round to Widener 46-30
2002  W & J lost in the second round to Trinity 45-10
2003  Waynesburg lost in the first round to Bridgewater 28-24
2004  W & J lost in the third round to MHB 52-14.
2005  Thiel lost in the second round to Bridgewater 24-13
2006  W & J lost in the second round to MHB 30-27
2007  W & J lost in the first round to NC-Wesleyan 35-34

Also other PAC playoff teams over the past few years...

2005 W & J lost in the first round to Bridgewater 30-21
2007 Waynesburg lost to Dickinson in the ECAC SE Bowl 16-10
2007 Geneva lost to Malone College in the NCCAA Victory Bowl 45-17

That's eleven teams from the PAC over the past eight years.  Six lost their first playoff game.  Again, all I was trying to say is that I would like to see a PAC team make it to the semifinals or beyond.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2008, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2008, 05:09:51 PM
Oberlin's season high in points is against W&J, while Thiel's second-highest season scoring total is against the Presidents. It's a fair assertion.

I can probably list 215 D3 football teams that would LOVE to 'struggle' like the Presidents.

Oberlin season-high in points allowed was against W&J.  Frostburg State's season-high in points allowed was vs. W&J.  Grove City season-high came against W&J. Thiel's second highest came against W&J (surpassed only by 4 OT win vs. Bethany).  Geneva's second highest total also came against W&J.

Based on ATR Great Lakes' standards, the defending NFL Champion 4-1 New York Giants are having 'early-season struggles."  The Cincinnati Bengals season high in points was against the Giants, while Cleveland's highest was also againt NYG...

It's not a fair assertion, nor is it accurate.

But, it's your website.  It's your writer.  Hyperbole draws clicks.  Have at it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2008, 08:17:49 PM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on October 13, 2008, 06:39:38 PM
  I would like to see a PAC team make it past the first or second round of the playoffs in my lifetime!

You were just born too late, apparently.

W&J went to the National Semifinals four straight years, including the 1992 & 1994 Stagg Bowls...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2008, 09:22:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2008, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2008, 05:09:51 PM
Oberlin's season high in points is against W&J, while Thiel's second-highest season scoring total is against the Presidents. It's a fair assertion.

I can probably list 215 D3 football teams that would LOVE to 'struggle' like the Presidents.

Great -- 24 teams that don't want to, yet only nine are ranked ahead. :)

I think we can stipulate that W&J is great on offense. No kidding. Really. But I mentioned two games that are significant defensive issues.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 15, 2008, 01:55:30 AM
Quote from: spikegrouchy on October 14, 2008, 06:41:26 PM
That's eleven teams from the PAC over the past eight years.  Six lost their first playoff game.  Again, all I was trying to say is that I would like to see a PAC team make it to the semifinals or beyond.



If that was actually clear in your original post, then I would agree with that.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 08:52:50 AM
When did W&J start throwing the ball??  They must have some hot-shot QB on campus now to scrap the run

Just kidding.  I actually wondered about the early season schedule of W&J, since Grove City is the only team the Presidents have played that have a chance at a non-losing record.  But, that offense is pretty much like a machine.  I think they'll be fine later in the year. 

Bob, how much of the early season defensive "struggles" or whatever people want to call them, can be attributed to losing John Klein to Heidelberg?  I'm just curious what your thoughts are on his defense vs. the Caponi/Goff defense.. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 08:56:25 AM
spike,

burghboy is one of the few on here that are actually intelligent enough to have a conversation.  All he was trying to do was point out that two years ago.... not trying to be demeaning.

Sheesh... if you had been here 3 or 4 years ago, you'd have seen anonymous names behind a computer full of rants and raves + insults. 

burghboy, bob gregg, and south willy have been here and have plenty of good insight for you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 09:04:56 AM
Nice article this week by Matt Florjancic on Thomas More QB Trevor Stellman and his road back from ACL Surgery last August. 

I know W&J is in the back of their minds --I know Grove City gets TMC's full focus this weekend.  Same with Thiel next weekend. 

http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2008/Saints+have+their+leader+back
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 15, 2008, 10:51:57 AM
SaintsFAN...

I hope my insight is correct and TMC handles Grove City this Saturday. If you can shut down their running game your DBs should have no problems on the outside. Bethany may have brought Thiel to life by letting them get 50 with the weakest offense in the PAC.

I would be great to see someone challenge W & J for the top spot.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 01:28:13 PM
Quote from: South Willy on October 15, 2008, 10:51:57 AM
SaintsFAN...

I hope my insight is correct and TMC handles Grove City this Saturday. If you can shut down their running game your DBs should have no problems on the outside. Bethany may have brought Thiel to life by letting them get 50 with the weakest offense in the PAC.

I would be great to see someone challenge W & J for the top spot.

Sounds like a job for our suddenly stout Defensive Line, led by the kid from Florida (Barimah) and the LB's (Clark, Steinmetz, Kohrs).   

So you think Grove City passes to set up the run ??  Historically, Thomas More has had trouble with teams that do that, but I like the way they've played it this year. 

*I agree it would be nice to see someone challenge W&J (it would also make the conference better).... hopefully, Thomas More is the team to do it this year... though, if I were W&J --I wouldn't be worried about the Saints because of what they've done to us annually. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on October 15, 2008, 02:01:06 PM
SaintsFAN

Love your psychology.. "I wouldn't be worried about the Saints because of what they've done to us annually." 

Last year, TMC was without its starting QB and W&J's defense was more stingy. As you well know what is past is past. I think the game will be a great one, and a close one as well. Allow me one cliche..the team that makes the fewer mistakes will win
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 02:28:04 PM
Right...

but Zerhusen had 7 starts (8 games) under his belt by the time W&J came to Kentucky last year.  The Saints had their identity on offense by then..  ;)

I think its going to be game of the year in the PAC (master of the obvious), and I'm glad its not only in Kentucky again this year, but on Thomas More's campus. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bureau chief on October 15, 2008, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 02:28:04 PM
Right...

and I'm glad its not only in Kentucky again this year, but on Thomas More's campus. 

I bet you are
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 15, 2008, 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 02:28:04 PM
and I'm glad its not only in Kentucky again this year, but on Thomas More's campus. 

I just wish Thomas More's on-campus football stadium had a press box....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2008, 04:00:28 PM
that makes two of us, Bob... supposedly, its going to be done for next year? 

I was wondering where the "press" stands when I was at the Homecoming Game.. I couldn't see to there from where I was watching. 

*I was in the parking lot, tailgating for the entire game.. thats one great thing about the new field.. the hill is gone and you can drink at your tailgate spot while still having a great view of the field.   One drawback to that day.. the police were cruising the parking lot and warning that they would "arrest" people, for using 4 letter words... incredible.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 15, 2008, 04:13:29 PM
SaintsFAN...

GC ran all over Bethany in the first half but somehow BC made adjustments at halftime and controlled their running in the 2nd half. GC scored in the final minute on a blown asignment in the secondary. Control Mercer and I don't think they can hurt you through the air. Your secondary did a nice job of keeping "almost" everything underneath at BC.

I really think TMC - 35, Gc - 17.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 15, 2008, 04:14:59 PM
Also, your special teams give you an added advantage. The return guys are a blur.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2008, 05:56:00 PM
Willy,

Nice call on the score for today... you were very close 35-14.  The Saints ran for 351 yards as a team.  They also overcame 2 Fumbles.  Steinmetz and Kohrs had great days for the Saints at LB. 

Thiel comes to town next week.. there should be a very good crowd for that game. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 18, 2008, 05:58:22 PM
SaintsFAN...

Congrats....I had that call right on the money. BC just gave away their 3rd PAC loss while scoring 40 points in each.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on October 18, 2008, 08:08:20 PM
Anyone at the Westmin/Bethany game?  The play-by-play shows Westminnie pulling it out on a field goal after they stopped the clock by using their "fourth" timeout for the half!!  Is the play-by-play wrong or is it yet another case of the "quality" of the refs that have been employed by the PAC this year showing through ??? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 18, 2008, 09:27:12 PM
Here are the FOUR Westminster TO's (at home, by the way):

According to the play by play, Westminster called FOUR timeouts in the second half.

1.  Trailing 43-36, after Chad Smith was sacked for loss of 4 yards.  Clock 02:47.
2.  Tied 43-43, after Smith was sacked for loss of 8 yards.  Clock 01:31.
3.  Tied 43-43, after Smith passed complete to Randy Rankin for 15 yards.  Clock 01:18.
4.  Tied 43-43, following Franz pass to Gubish for 19 yards, Substitution Infraction penalty and Spike to stop the clock.  Clock 00:01.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on October 18, 2008, 10:44:31 PM
I was at the Westminster-Bethany game today.  Westminster did not call a "fourth" time out after the pass to Gubish for 19 yards.  WC had already used all their TO's by then.  Bethany called the time out.

That pass play resulted in a first down so the clock was stopped.  As the referee was setting the ball in play, a Westminster player was trying to get off the field before the clock was started (with 6 seconds left on the clock).  He didn't make it, so a five-yard penalty was called for illegal substitution.    Franz spiked the ball with 1.9 seconds to play.  Bethany then called their last time out.   Freshman Trevor Young kicked his first career field goal of 44 yards to win the game as time ran out.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2008, 10:13:25 AM
grouchy is correct.

The "fourth" timeout was called by Bethany in an attempt to ice the kicker.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2008, 12:53:59 PM
That burned the Raiders yesterday and allowed the Jets another shot at the FG at the end of regulation. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 23, 2008, 11:38:14 PM
Judging from the poll on the front page about WHERE Around the Nation might visit a week from this Saturday... perhaps Keith Mac will choose Crestview Hills, KY for the W&J/TMC game.   I think this would show that the experts think it could be a great game.  Though, he may opt for another game because of the lopsided nature of the series thus far. 

Its all laid out in front of them, Thomas More needs to continue to play hard and earn respect.  I like the way this team plays hard on defense --a Hilvert trait brought over from the success at Mount St. Joe. 

Before we think anymore about W&J, The Saints will need to play sound football THIS Saturday against a better-than-their-record Thiel. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2008, 09:33:27 AM
IF W&J and Thomas More both take care of their Oct. 25th opponents, it will set up an interesting situation for the PAC.

You'll have the league newbie, Thomas More, and the hated Presidents vying for the Football title and the AQ.

Will the PAC's old guard root for the establishment or for the new kid on the block?

Here's hoping we go head-to-head on Nov. 1 for al the marbles...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2008, 01:10:18 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 23, 2008, 11:38:14 PM
Judging from the poll on the front page about WHERE Around the Nation might visit a week from this Saturday... perhaps Keith Mac will choose Crestview Hills, KY for the W&J/TMC game.   

This wasn't a poll to tell Keith where to go on Nov. 1, just a general idea where people would like to see Keith go next time we're looking for somewhere to go.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2008, 01:28:37 PM
sort of an open invitation to tell Keith where to go????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2008, 02:19:53 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2008, 09:33:27 AM
IF W&J and Thomas More both take care of their Oct. 25th opponents, it will set up an interesting situation for the PAC.

You'll have the league newbie, Thomas More, and the hated Presidents vying for the Football title and the AQ.

Will the PAC's old guard root for the establishment or for the new kid on the block?

Here's hoping we go head-to-head on Nov. 1 for al the marbles...

Bob,

Haha.... who would the referee's homer in that game??!!  You have the hated President's (who they named the conference after ;) ) and the red-headed step child program from Northern Kentucky. 

THAT would be very interesting... they'd probably go as far as to call it as they actually see it.  Genius!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2008, 07:41:45 PM
Thiel 14
Thomas More 45 F

Thomas More is free now to focus on W&J this coming weekend in Crestview Hills.  80 players saw the field for the Saints today... Thomas More led 42-7 in the 3rd Quarter and then emptied the bench.  99 yds of Thiel's offensive output came against the reserves... the regular defense played very well... 5 sacks and forced 3 fumbles. 

Hopefully this Saturday is not like the last couple years against the precision passing of Swallow and W&J.  The Presidents have had their way with Thomas More the last few years... 42-0 in 2007, 21-12 in 2006, 32-14 in 2005.

Their "low" offensive output going into the game against Westminster tonight is 34 points..... WOW
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2008, 10:55:06 PM
W&J 34, Westminster 7

Curt Jones rushed for 188 yards and three touchdowns.
Derek Taylor added another 71 yards.

Bobby Swallow passed for 290 yards and two touchdowns, one to David Ravida (8 rec. 106 yards), the other to Craig Besong (5 rec. 59 yards).

Westminster held to 48 yards rushing on 25 attempts.

The stage is set. 
Saturday, November 1st, W&J at Thomas More, first place in the PAC on the line.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2008, 04:43:15 AM
Bob,

If W&J holds the Saints ground attack to 48 yards... the PAC Conference Crown will continue to reside in Washington, PA for the next year.

Looking forward to Saturday. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 26, 2008, 07:36:32 AM
SaintsFan,

You didn't happen to get a pressbox built, did you?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2008, 02:10:53 PM
No sir..  I think its basically a tent in the stands with the section roped off.  Its going to be a different set up than you're probably used to.  I doubt you've had to do something like this even when you covered HS Games.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 26, 2008, 10:05:18 PM
Congrats and looking forward to next weeks game. I'm definitely rooting for the "newbie". 

Also, congrats to the Bison for the upset of WC. Finally played hard all 4 quarters.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2008, 02:10:53 PM
No sir..  I think its basically a tent in the stands with the section roped off.  Its going to be a different set up than you're probably used to.  I doubt you've had to do something like this even when you covered HS Games.

SaintsFAN, believe me, I had to deal with some situations covering high school games.

But this isn't high school.

Unfortunately, this week, we've got two less-than-standard facility issues to deal with in college football.

Thomas More has a tent for a pressbox.  While I understand the construction is ongoing and there won't always be a tent, there is a tent for this week (and this season).

Mercyhurst (D-II) has a pressbox that most small high schools would find inadequate.  We were also planning to cover the PSAC West championship tilt between Mercyhurst and California University of PA but were told they couldn't accomodate us.  Press box not big enough.  And the kicker at Mercyhurst is--this is a NEW field, NEW pressbox, NEW facility.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2008, 10:22:03 AM
That Mercyhurst situation sounds really ridiculous since its a new facility.  Unreal.

Thomas More could've played this whole season at Dixie Heights, but they have a better advantage playing on campus.  I'm convinced the Saints wouldn't have dropped the same number of "home" games in 2007, if they had played on campus.

Granted, W&J game wouldn't have mattered... and same with Waynesburg but the kids seem to play harder in front of the bigger crowds at Bank of Kentucky Field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2008, 12:26:43 PM
Well, it's not like W&J's new press box is overly accommodating either, Bob. Some schools give too much priority to the president's box and not enough to making sure people can cover their game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 12:41:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2008, 12:26:43 PM
Well, it's not like W&J's new press box is overly accommodating either, Bob. Some schools give too much priority to the president's box and not enough to making sure people can cover their game.

You never miss an opportunity.

You were provided plenty of workspace INDOORS when you worked a game at W&J and the same is true for everyone else.

I am the most ardent objector to what W&J built as it's new press facilities several years ago.
Just this past week, I offered WJPA's skybox to the Westminster TV crew.
I have offered WJPA's skybox to W&J for use for visiting media on numerous occasions.

But it IS a pressbox for heaven's sake.  It's not a tent.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2008, 12:59:40 PM
Hi -- I wasn't talking about Thomas More, I was talking about the Mercyhurst angle you raised. And never ONCE did I say W&J wasn't accommodating. I did say that the school's priorities were misplaced.

Try to re-read my post with that in mind and maybe you can calm down your rhetoric. Because, in fact, YOU seem to not miss any opportunity to take something I say personally.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 01:32:36 PM
You had sufficient INDOOR space to work for the game you covered at Cameron Stadium.
I don't believe that any media personnel have ever contacted you about W&J being less than accomodating for a football game.
Everyone who has ever wanted to cover a game at Cameron Stadium has been adequately accomodated.

Did I lobby for additional frontage for the working press box section of the facility?  Absolutely.
Do I believe the available frontage was properly allocated to meet all needs at Cameron?  No, and those beliefs were communicated pre-construction and afterward, to the previous administration (design & construction responsibility) and to this one (current property owners).
Do I stand, in the second row, to broadcast every home game at Cameron?  Yes, I do.
Did any individual, print or broadcast, ever HAVE to work outside at Cameron?  No.

Those things all being said, it's tough to argue that W&J gave "too much priority to the president's box and not enough to making sure people can cover their game."

Do I think it's right that the President's Box guests get snickerdoodles in their cookie trays while we have to settle for chocolate chip and peanut butter cookies in the working areas of the stadium?  No, I don't...

And, for the record, you could fit the entire Mercyhurst pressbox inside the President's Box at W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2008, 01:42:06 PM
Alright, clearly the anger here is clouding your ability to comprehend what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that EVEN AT SCHOOLS THAT WANT GOOD NEW PRESS BOXES SOMETIMES OTHER FACTORS GET IN THE WAY.

Just breathe, Bob. Please. Get the chip off your shoulder.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on October 27, 2008, 06:21:42 PM
Congrat's to the Bison's, they played the full 4 quarters of football and came away with the win. My Waynesburg crew looked like they were looking ahead to next week's game. We went back to turning the ball over (3 fumbles and 2 interceptions). You can't give any other team that many chances and expect to win games.

I did wonder about the fake punt that Bethany called that really let Waynesburg back into the game?? It seemed like a chancy call at best.

(Trying to get away from the press box discussion.)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2008, 08:03:30 PM
Not to worry, stingdad.

Once or twice a year, Pat makes a comment that I take the wrong way.

We snipe at each other for a little while and then it ends.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2008, 10:00:22 PM
Everyone when you're done reading the squabble between Mr. Gregg and Mr. Coleman please take a moment to thank our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan + previous conflicts to give us the opportunity to take such liberties.

Had to do it..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 28, 2008, 03:30:27 PM
Stingdad...

My only explanation to the fake punt is that the momentum was turning to WC in the 4th qtr just like it did against the Bison at GC, Westminnie and Thiel. I think every Bison fan was ready for another loss in the final moments and I think the coach just panicked along with us. I think he felt like the Bison would punt and WC would come down, score and the Bison would collapse. I think he just wanted to do anything other than punt and just took a wild shot. I think I could have come up with a better play since my punter is the QB! At least it took everyone's minds off the expected collapse. as everyone went crazy on that play.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2008, 05:45:13 PM
South Willy,

My congrats.  Waynesburg is a really big win for Bethany. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: nittanybacker on October 28, 2008, 07:16:03 PM
I played at Thomas More when they had the old stadium with grass.  Both teams would rather play on the "new" turf with no press box instead of the old grass field, that was usually mud by this time of the year, with a press box.  I was born in Washington PA and I still have family back their.  I have driven through W&J many times and you can tell a difference in funding between W&J and Thomas More.  The facilities that W&J built up by Falconi Field are unbelievable.   

Anyways,  isn't D3 football about the players?  So I say as long as the players have a good surface to play on who cares about he media.  If you ask both teams they would probably play in the parking lot for a chance to go to the playoffs. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on October 28, 2008, 08:10:08 PM
South Willy,

Well that kind of explains the fake punt. It really shifted the momentum back our way for a little. Your defense had a great day against us. They put plenty of pressure on our quarterback and forced some key fumbles. After the first fumble one of the kids on defense came running over to the bench exclaiming how we were not protecting the ball. You also took full advantage of our quarterback's hesitancy to throw the ball away under pressure. (A private beef of mine at the beginning of the season, but they had been getting better about it.)

I wish you all the best for the remainder of your season. Your team was much better than their record and the win against Waynesburg should be a big confidence booster for them.

Go Jackets!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2008, 08:56:24 AM
Quote from: nittanybacker on October 28, 2008, 07:16:03 PM
...who cares about he media.... 

Of course, that means you will either be at the game, or have someone who is call you.  Otherwise, you'll never know who won the game and makes the playoffs.  Glad you've figured out how to follow sports without the media.  You are certainly ahead of your time.  I guess I should start preparing for another career because once your secret gets out, the media will be in the unemployment line.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2008, 10:40:25 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BTEXPRESS on October 29, 2008, 10:43:56 AM
Let's be honest, before Pat started this great site and before the internet, D 3 Football fans were lucky to even get a few sentences in their newspaper about results of their local Division III football team. Heck most of the time you had to scramble to even see the scores listed in your Sunday morning sports section of D III games. The Media has come a long way. The first was Don Hansen, then when ESPN started covering the Stag Bowl on television the coverage has really grown. Look now on how most D III schools are spending big $$$$ on their football and other athletic facilities. It is a great time to be a Division III athlete and most schools get a lot of exposure from their local media. Colleges should bend over backwards to make sure they take care of the media covering their games. It is FREE PUBLICITY for the schools and can help not only with football recruiting but also attract other students as well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: nittanybacker on October 29, 2008, 05:40:59 PM
BOB,

I usually check both of the schools website for the scores.  The schools SID usually puts the score on the website.  So as long as the SID gets score I will be ok.  Also,  There are sometimes a story about the game as well.  This might have opened up a whole new world to you Bob.  I hope the school's SID doesn't put Pat out of a job.  Sorry Pat.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2008, 10:54:08 PM
I'll survive. Most people won't choose to bookmark 239 school sites. Nor would you have a message board to use on the school sites.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2008, 08:22:39 AM
I wouldn't survive.  I'm a lazy bastard.  Thank you, Pat.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2008, 08:53:15 AM
And, of course, the internet IS a medium...

Damn media, infiltrating all aspects of our life...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on October 31, 2008, 09:01:20 AM
Man, I have been away for too long. I have been following the conference all year. And now is the appropriate time to make some noise on the board.

Some of the teams in the conference have taken a turn for the worse. Thiel is beginning to look like the team that was the doormate of the conference at one point. Grove City is still the stingy team they have always been. Westminster is no where near the Waynesburg teams that Jeff Hand built, what is goin on? Thomas More is beginning to build a dynasty like before. I do not care much about Geneva or Saint Vincent because they do not count yet. Bethany is the team that just does not know how to win games. W&J the same as usual.

Now, SouthWilly are you always this negative of a person? Your head coach made a call to try to win the game and now you are saying you could do something better. I would love to hear your ideas since it is now a week after the game. I think your tone would be different if the Bison could have pulled out 2 out of the 3 games against GCC, Westminnie and Thiel.

I love the conversation between Pat and Bob Gregg, All I am going to say is Does W&J President even go to the games?

Last, W&J will beat Thomas More by 3 TDs. Thomas More is just a little young right now. As for the rest of the conference, Bethany will beat Geneva in a close one, Waynesburg will beat GCC in a rebound win, Thiel and Saint Vincent will be a close one but Liep will be ready.

Question: Is W&J really a top ten team in the country this year? Or are they a benefactor of a bad conference and weak non-conference games?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 09:56:53 AM
If W&J won by 21, I would be surprised.   I do think W&J is a top 10 team.  Their offense is unbelieveable yet again, led by Swallow at QB.  He's a beast... and the 47 ppg avg is sick.

I think W&J has a great team, as usual.  But I think Thomas More's offensive and defensive units have really come into their own since the John Carroll game.  Remember, the Saints have played tough competition in week 1.  They didn't fare very well...  but they were still learning how to play together because of their youth, and they finished that game off strong with a length of the field scoring drive.  I don't think you can call them a young team this late in the season. 

The one "X Factor" will be the zebras tomorrow.  I know they hate W&J and TMC ...probably even equally.  Maybe we'll get a good game out of them too.

Its going to be a good crowd in Crestview Hills...just like in 2005 and I think this keeps it close. 

PTR (as they used to say at Mount St Joe)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2008, 10:55:15 AM
Yes, the President does attend W&J games when she's in town.  She has spent a considerable amount of time recently dealing with a family medical issue.  So, I'd probably leave that topic alone.

SaintsFan, how good IS John Carroll as a test?  They haven't played the OAC's two unbeaten teams--Mount Union & Otterbein.  They've lost to two .500 teams in Baldwin-Wallace and Ohio Northern.  I'm looking at JC finishing 6-4.

I'm not going to give anyone 21 points at this point of the season, at least not with the numbers TMC has put up so far.

I AM hoping that Bobby Swallow plays a great game tomorrow.  Not just puts up great numbers as he has in most contests this year, but plays a great game (and there is a huge difference).

I think the Saints spread run offense, with the ability to pass, will extend and challenge the Presidents' defense.  Had this taken place a few weeks back, I would be much more uncomfortable heading in.  The new system is in, and it is working.  Players are much more comfortable and the front seven have really kicked it in.

I'm looking for an exciting game tomorrow.  And looking forward to my return visit to Crestview Hills in 2010 when, I hope, the Press Box will be completed! ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2008, 12:14:12 PM
From a "tent" standpoint, at least it's going to be Sunny & 70 on Saturday...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 12:46:01 PM
John Carroll was a GREAT test.... I think they are better than everyone else on TMC's schedule, outside of W&J.  They had 17 starters back from a 6-4 OAC team in 2007.  In the OAC... ONU is better than their record (brutal schedule) and John Carroll forced highly thought of Capital into 9 turnovers two weeks ago in their meeting (forcing them from the top 25). 

Sometimes 6-4 in the OAC is alot better than it appears. 

No doubt these are the top 2 teams in the PAC (and will be for forseeable future).  I'm anxious to see how far we've come since last year's debacle at Dixie Heights HS.

Bob, you're going to like our 2 Freshman RBs and of course, Collier and Stellman.   Its truly a different team than it was last year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2008, 12:56:32 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 12:46:01 PM
Bob, you're going to like our 2 Freshman RBs and of course, Collier and Stellman.   Its truly a different team than it was last year. 

I liked 42-0 last year....I hope you're not TOO different.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 01:55:03 PM
Well, I guess one of us is going home unhappy...  Cheers to that. 

Seriously... who do you think the refs favor in this game pitting the "Founder" of the league Presidents and the Red-Headed Stepchild Saints?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2008, 02:24:14 PM
Saints,

I'm hoping the refs don't "favor" either team.  Just call it as they see it and let the teams decide the winner, within the scope of the rules.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 02:47:58 PM
I'm convinced PAC officials can't look objectively at games..  Maybe this week, though
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 31, 2008, 03:15:21 PM
Footballfan12...

Greetings... I never said it wasn't a call to win the game and in the end BC won the game. My thought was only that since your QB is the punter it might have been a nice idea to throw to uncovered wide out rather than short snap to a back with 9 guys on d-line to block a kick and with 5+ yds to get. By the way, WC allowed a cover man to run free all day so a fake punt-pass could have worked all day. Bison's first complete performance of the season.

Good luck SaintsFAN...Need a new champ in the PAC this season. Forget the officials, I haven't seen a good group all season in the PAC. They're worse than Florida high school refs. Yea, I know I'm to negative!!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 01, 2008, 04:18:05 PM
Congrats to Thomas More, who clearly outplayed and out coached W&J this afternoon.

It was a playoff situation, which usually leads to the Presidents laying an egg.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: spikegrouchy on November 01, 2008, 04:31:48 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 01, 2008, 04:18:05 PM
Congrats to Thomas More, who clearly outplayed and out coached W&J this afternoon.


Ditto...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 01, 2008, 04:58:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2008, 09:56:53 AM
The one "X Factor" will be the zebras tomorrow.  I know they hate W&J and TMC ...probably even equally.  Maybe we'll get a good game out of them too.

Any thoughts about the reffing outfit that the PAC contracts with?  The Thiel games that I have attended this year plus what I hear about other games suggest to me that there SHOULD be a better outfit to contract with than these - uhh, "gentlemen."  The saving grace, from my perspective, is that they seem to be CONSISTENT in making questionable calls. ::)
 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 01, 2008, 05:08:44 PM
It just seemed like it was Thomas More's day... maybe W&J forgot about Collier with the hoopla about Knott and Owens... but Collier's back to back TD runs were back breakers. 

My hats off to W&J... classy team, the players played very hard and I wasn't sure TMC had it in the bag until we broke the long run with 1:25 left... Swallow's receivers made some big plays today. 

Look forward to Thomas More representing the PAC with class and dignity in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 01, 2008, 07:05:18 PM
SaintsFAN...Congrats on a big win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2008, 01:11:38 AM
Thanks, South Willy... we got a big game in two weeks... we need to win the Bridge Bowl back from Mount St. Joe, then we can think playoffs. 

Two thoughts from today... the game next week against Geneva will be tough...because of the travel involved and the fact the kids were on such an emotional high today.  I was very exciting, but I cringed when our PA announcer said "Congrats on a great season."  Um...hello?  We have two regular season games, including a home game in the Bridge Bowl, not to mention the playoffs..  Jesus

The other is the refs.  I agree with whoever said it earlier...  The PAC needs to look at these officials they have.  Its only sour grapes if you lose the game, and we didn't lose... but those guys today (I wanted to name names, but chose not to) were awful. 


To the refs that "worked" today: 

It was lopsided... 106 yds in penalties for Thomas More.  12 penalties to 6 today...and the crowd saw it.  W&J was tough enough to stop without them getting 4 first downs by penalty.  Enough is enough... Your partisanship belongs in the political scene.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 03, 2008, 10:50:38 AM
SaintsFAN... Geneva can't stop the run so TMC should have 300+ runing yds. Bethany's defense took the second qtr off and let them just roll down the field for 21 points in 10 minutes. Rest of the game was even.

The refs turned BC TD into a bogus INT which is what seemed to turn the second qtr around. BC would have been up 23-10 with the proper call.

My son picked up a knee injury early in the 3rd qtr on a punt return and was done for the day.. Wasn't even hit so just one of those things. Possible MRI today.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2008, 02:51:44 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2008, 01:11:38 AM
...The other is the refs.  I agree with whoever said it earlier...  The PAC needs to look at these officials they have.  Its only sour grapes if you lose the game, and we didn't lose... but those guys today were awful. 


To the refs that "worked" today: 

It was lopsided... 106 yds in penalties for Thomas More.  12 penalties to 6 today...and the crowd saw it.  W&J was tough enough to stop without them getting 4 first downs by penalty.  Enough is enough... Your partisanship belongs in the political scene.

SaintsFan, you're wrong.

1st half--
W&J k/o out of bounds (obviously).
TMC off-side (clearly). 
TMC off-side (clearly again).
W&J ill. proceedure (moved prior to snap).
TMC pass interference (went through receiver to get ball).
TMC ill. proceedure (moved prior to snap).
W&J Off. holding on run.
TMC  Personal Foul on punt coverage (obvious post-whistle late hit).

2nd half--
TMC pass interference (right hand holding around waist with left hand knocking down pass).
TMC Personal Foul on touchdown run (another obvious post-whisle late hit).
W&J  Illegal proceedure (moved prior to snap).
TMC  Roughing the passer (hit Swallow 2 seconds after he passed ball).
W&J  off holding on run.
TMC  Off holding on run.
W&J  Personal Foul--late hit at boundary.
TMC  pass interference (I'll agree with this one being shaky, though I think there was contact with the ball in the air).
W&J  Ill. proceedure (movement prior to snap after timeout).
TMC off side (clearly).  And they were off side on the previous play too and it wasn't called.

The PAC referees called the game that was played, which is EXACTLY what you should want.

The one interference call that I question would have been a first down with a catch that may have been negated by the contact.  The Saints should have had at least one more off-side penalty.  Deduct one first down by penalty, add one first down by penalty.

Your "partianship" comment is off-base, as is your evaluation of the officiating.

Congrats on the win, the PAC title and the AQ berth to the NCAA's.  But don't taint it by mis-questioning the officiating.  The Saints won the game Saturday, in spite of their own mistakes of taking three personal fouls (two of them on dead ball situations) and nearly 10 other penalties.  That aspect of the Saints game needs to be cleaned up or the TMC stay in the playoffs won't be any longer than W&J's was last year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 04, 2008, 12:39:51 AM
I know it's not a popular position, and I'm sure I'll take abuse for it, but there should be questions about the program at W&J.

Sure, the stats look good in wins and losses, but with the playoff appearances, and results  in those appearances, the program continues to lose it's reputation in the region.  I'm not sure about it's national reputation, but everytime I see/watch the Presidents, all I can think of is Walt Harris if he coached Division III.

Of course, there won't be any major moves on this level of play, they are competitive, and can add to their 'rep' in Division III.   It's not a priority at a school like W&J now, and the administration is quite different in the Mitchell and Burnett years.

That said, they look to be regressing as a program to me.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2008, 08:22:16 AM
Bob,

I'm not complaining so much about the ones that WERE called... its some of the ones that WEREN'T called.  Especially on the W&J 20 play marches down the field.   Swallow was very evasive... he also had help as some of our guys were being tackled by W&J olineman.   No matter though... and you're right...some of the Thomas More excitement needs tempered... but I think now that this young team has played a big time game... they'll be ok in the playoffs.  Cure that and the 3rd down woes and I think the offense will be a tough match for a couple teams. 

I do agree with your saying the pass interference in 2nd half on TMC was tick-tack.  I'm going to say the personal foul on W&J when they hit Zerhusen was also shaky.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2008, 10:33:35 AM
If not-called holding penalties are all you have for your "partisanship" comment, SaintsFan, give it a rest.

As has been said for years, IF a referee or umpire WANTED to, holding could be called on nearly every play.

Both sides did it.  And it was called equally (or not called if you want to look at it that way).

Good luck to the Saints and here's hoping 9-1 gets the Presidents in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2008, 10:51:37 AM
I think my "partisanship" comment has mislead you.... I'm not talking about the refs favoring the Presidents.  I'm talking about the refs needing more accountability.  Its been said by another poster below also. 


BTW --I do think 9-1 gets the Presidents in. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 04, 2008, 12:57:06 PM
No matter who you like, the officating in the PAC is horrible but I can't see anyone doing anything about it. Every week I've attended the bad, missed or wrong calls are thoughout the game. It occurs against both teams and only really affects the outcome if you catch one late in the 4th qtr. There is much more complaining about the calls in D3 than in D1 or even high school football down here. Of course, in D1 your can review & fix some of them.

Saturday, BC tight end goes up for a ball which goes off his finger tips. As he comes down upright and is trying to get his balance the safety comes in helmut down and hits him helmet to helmet. Tight end stays down and is taken off the field with a concussion, out for 1-2 weeks. In todays NFL, the hit draws a $25,000 fine minimum...In D3 it gets no call from an official 10 feet from the play. It's hard to figure how these refs ever made it to college ball.

My trips to BC are probably done this season with my son doing out Saturday with a torn meniscus. Just a bad break on a punt return, wasn't even hit. I'll keep an eye on the Saints & Presidents in the D3 playoffs.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2008, 01:31:08 PM
Sorry to hear about your son, SW.  Hope the knee gets better.

I've only seen this much complaining about a whole conference's officials from the NCAC... and it was mostly Wabash guys leading the assault. 

I don't know about talk about W&J's State of the Program...but I do have a question.

Bobby Swallow.... best QB ever at W&J?   i mean, his career numbers are off the charts.  He has 92 career TDs and something like 17 INTs..  His receivers on this past Saturday were making plays for him... but he put quite a few balls where only his receivers could catch them.  He was under pressure all afternoon... and stepped up. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 04, 2008, 08:40:10 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2008, 01:31:08 PM
Bobby Swallow.... best QB ever at W&J?   i mean, his career numbers are off the charts.  He has 92 career TDs and something like 17 INTs..  His receivers on this past Saturday were making plays for him... but he put quite a few balls where only his receivers could catch them.  He was under pressure all afternoon... and stepped up. 

I would defer to Mr. Gregg, who would have a better answer since he has seen more games through a number of years.  I have only seen quarterbacks at W&J since probably the mid 80's.

The offensive system has changed through the years, so statistics are hard to use as a measure in my opinion.  W&J was more of a run heavy team in the late 80's and early 90's, but the lack of balance hurt them in the playoffs during the years I played (again, my opinion).   There were some quarterbacks during that time that were good ones and I think would have flourished in the system they have now.

Swallow definitely would be in the argument, and though I don't know him or played with him, I thought Jason Baer was one I would pick over any of them I watched since I was going to W&J games as a high school kid.   Just his smarts and grit stood out to me, and seemed like he had a level that could infect the team in a positive way.





Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2008, 08:20:08 AM
It'll be a while before I can put a comprehensive piece together on this topic.  But the overwhelming differences of offensive philosophy between the Pat Aigner/Bob Strope/Jason Baer days and those under Coach Mike make it nearly impossible to name a "best quarterback ever."

Certainly, Bobby Swallow has to be in the top five all time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2008, 08:24:28 AM
Damn, I didn't even post yesterday and got smited, again!

Anyway, I think W&J's in need of serious outside help to be invited to the dance.

9-1 will get them on the board for discussion, though probably not on the first round.  The Presidents likely need there to be only 3-4 other 1-loss-in-region teams on the board at the start.  If that happens, they'll get a "C" bid.

If there are more than that, all bets are off.

Of course, not able to win the PAC title themselves, Bethany and Waynesburg would like nothing more than to help W&J miss the playoffs.  So, for the Red & Black, there is much work to be done.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2008, 01:43:37 PM
I noticed the smiting also.... we have an unknown "sniper" among us, it appears.

I remember hearing that W&J used to be a run-based offensive team in the early 1990s... but then again, it should be common sense because the Spread only came into vogue in the late 90s.

I think Bethany, minus SouthWilly's son at WR.... will be no problem for the Presidents.  W&J is better at defending the pass than the run + Collier is out as I said before.  The wildcard that I see here is Waynesburg... its a bitter rivalry game and they have the ability (not that they've shown it consistently this year) to run the ball effectively, even without Heller at RB.

I hope W&J wins out and is able to have the chips fall into place for them..  I'm hoping for TWO teams with strong showings in the Playoffs to earn the PAC some respect.

Bob, I'm sending you a message ..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2008, 02:03:59 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2008, 01:43:37 PM
W&J is better at defending the pass than the run

SaintsFAN, that's not accurate.

Other than breakaway speed working behind a very powerful line, W&J is great against the run.  Pass D has been an issue for several years.

Having to defend against similar threats is the undoing of the Administration.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 07, 2008, 02:45:56 PM
SaintsFAN...

I also hope the PAC gets two teams in the playoffs but an upset by the Bison at W & J would really put a bright spot on a very dreary season. BC is pretty banged up so they have there work cut out for them. Funny, in three seasons at BC, I don't think my son has ever played against W & J.

Matt's knee repair is scheduled for Nov 17th in Pittsburgh. He was checked today at the Steeler facility and I guess his meniscus is badly damaged. If repairable, no workouts/sports until maybe March.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: stingdad on November 07, 2008, 06:33:40 PM
South Willy

Are prayers are with your son and family, we pray for a great surgical outcome and a speedy recovery.

The season is winding to a close with Thiel this week then the President's. It would be great to win out, but we too, have plenty of players injured so it is going to take an all out effort by each and every player on the field to make it happen.

Good luck to all this weekend!

Sting
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2008, 07:47:15 PM
wow.. Hats off to Geneva on their win today.  I'm surprised, but NOT totally shocked at this outcome.   The Saints had a week to recover from an emotional win against W&J and they came out flat.  Hopefully, they learn from this in time for MSJ and the playoffs...

  I didn't hear the game but from the stats, it looks like the defense couldn't get off the field...giving up 265 yards on the ground.  Stellman threw his first two INT's of the year and the Saints only had 110 yards on the ground.  Geneva held the ball for 37 minutes today.  I was told early on in the week by someone  that Geneva was better than their record, and that their defense was the real deal... Sounds like Geneva won their "playoff game" or "Super Bowl" ...whatever you want to call it and Thomas More, with the overnight trip and plenty of press coverage this past week came out and got beat by a team that played well.

TMC will have to wait until 2009 to have another opportunity to earn a win against Geneva. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 10, 2008, 01:12:33 PM
Tough loss SaintsFAN... I would think that loss would hurt W & J getting an at-large bid. Displays competitive conference but not much strengh at top. Glad your spot is a lock.

Ott beating JCU this week would make us look even weaker after TMC opening day performance.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2008, 01:22:58 PM
Willy & SaintsFAN,

The Geneva loss by TMC, in theory, doesn't hurt TMC or the Presidents.

However, it doesn't look good.

And an Otterbein win will have more of an impact than just making the PAC looks less competitive nationally.  It will lock up a Pool C for Otterbein, leaving the rest to fight for five.  John Carroll will have LOTS of support from lots of places this week.

psst, Fan....I'm back up to 27 somehow....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2008, 02:23:40 PM
I saw that BG...  I saw that.  +

Its a terrible loss for TMC's momentum.  We'll have to build it back up this weekend when Mount St Joe comes to town to drop off the Bridge Bowl trophy. 

Bob's right though, Willy... it doesn't hurt W&J as much in theory because Geneva is still provisional.  I don't even think its counted as a regional loss. 

I think Trinity losing helps... I'll cross my fingers for the Presidents while I'm downing beverages at the Bridge Bowl Alumni Tailgate.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 10, 2008, 03:21:40 PM
Thanks guys...Where can I read about Pool "B" & Pool "C"??
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2008, 04:31:33 PM
There's a thread on the "General Football" Part... right before you choose the South Region, you pick that.  They have Pool C and Pool B discussion.  Though, there's nothing really to discuss about Pool A, I'm sure its there too.  Also, Pool C technically is all the Pool A teams that didn't win their conference (if you want to think of it that way).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2008, 04:57:51 PM
I put an "all-in-one" pdf together.

Just so you all know, as of now (Monday afternoon), records listed there on the Pool B & Pool C lists are overall (all games included) records.  Some tweaking will take place sometime this week to list ONLY D-III games and In-Region records (NCAA is so narrow-minded in what games actually count.... ;))

D-III Races in One Place (http://www.wjpa.com/allinone08.pdf)


28 and counting....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on November 10, 2008, 10:36:56 PM
Bob - Nice work. But what else would I expect from the PAC's all-time winningest play-by-play man??!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2008, 11:48:33 PM
Quote from: rabriggs on November 10, 2008, 10:36:56 PM
the PAC's all-time winningest play-by-play man??!!

Right place, right time.  John Luckhardt arrived on the sideline at the same time I arrived in the broadcast booth.  It's worked out pretty well, particularly the part about him doing the coaching and me the broadcasting.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2008, 10:00:54 AM
This is the schedule for the PresAC proclaimed "Rivalry Week".

Nov. 15       1:00 PM     Thiel           Grove City                         
              1:00 PM    St. Vincent       Bethany          
      
              1:30 PM    Washington and Jefferson       Waynesburg          
      
              1:30 PM    Mount St. Joseph       Thomas More    (Bridge Bowl)            
              1:30 PM    Westminster (Pa.)       Geneva

On the rivalries board, I read about Westminster PA and Geneva.  I know about the Bridge Bowl between MSJ and TMC.

How intense are the remaining rivalries?  Is each really the most intense rivalry that your school has?  Is there another game that most of your fans think is a stronger rivalry?  Or, did W&J-Waynesburg trump some other rivalry?

Thanks for info.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2008, 10:16:02 AM
Ralph,

W&J/Waynesburg has been THE rivalry since CMU left the PAC.

Other games in individual years, or for a couple year span, have become more intense, but this one is the enduring one.

Waynesburg's season hasn't been what the Yellow Jackets anticipated during summer camp for myriad reasons.  But the one salve that remains available is on the shelf this Saturday.  A win against W&J would make many of the disappointments vanish.

While W&J wants, and badly needs, an impressive road win Saturday, the intensity of this game from the northern vantage point will be there regardless.  That having been said, I don't believe, overall, that W&J sees these rivalry games the same way as the others.  The Presidents have been the top dog (or at least one of the top two dogs) every year since 1987.  The others are trying to take a spot.  W&J is just trying to keep it.

I was having a discussion on a high school board about a certain team being "the measuring stick" for all others in a particular classification.  And I used W&J an example.

In the PAC, year in and year out, W&J is the team other teams want to beat.  And looking at the top of the PAC standings, sure other teams have won the conference (Grove City, Thiel, Waynesburg, now Thomas More), it was always the win over W&J that gave them the title.  And, W&J won every other title over the past 20 years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: OldPhart on November 12, 2008, 10:23:02 AM
The Thiel-Grove City game is for the Mercer County Cup.  My view is that if we could only win one game of the season - please let it be against GCC.  Beating W&J is definitely a plus - but it would not cleanse the stain of losing to GCC.

Some claim that GCC doesn't stand for Grove City College - but rather God's Country Club.  A transfer to Thiel set me straight that it really stands for God's Concentration Camp...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2008, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: OldPhart on November 12, 2008, 10:23:02 AM
Some claim that GCC doesn't stand for Grove City College - but rather God's Country Club.  A transfer to Thiel set me straight that it really stands for God's Concentration Camp...

Of course, there are those who would say that it's better to be an inmate at God's Concentration Camp than the warden at the Greenville Institute for Public Policy.   ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 12, 2008, 11:23:32 AM
St. Vincent is only in it's second season with the PAC and I'm sure they drew Bethany to make the game as competitve as possible. Hopefully they'll have a good game and its on to basketball for both schools.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2008, 12:08:23 PM
Thanks, guys!

That is really informative.

This weekend really strengthens the PresAC. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2008, 12:39:08 PM
Fellas,

Honestly, several of TMC's football alums were talking in the past week.  We'd rather (to a man) have Thomas More defeat Mount St. Joe, than have any success in the playoffs.  Sounds crazy, I know... but both schools started football the same year.  It was a race to arm the football teams, if you will.  We won this.  Thomas More so thoroughly dominated the series that Mount St Joe ENDED it after the 1995 thrashing we gave them (62-27).  That was my freshman year and it was only that close because we played the freshman for the entire 2nd half.  Current Thomas More Coach Jim Hilvert's brother, TJ was QB for MSJ and he was caught in the newspaper saying the wrong things.  Well, his 3rd play of the game was his last and it openned the floodgates.  As a result of this game, MSJ wouldn't play us until they didn't suck. 

They finally met us on the field again in 1999--in the form of a scrimmage.  They mustered up the courage for that scrimmage because of our 3-7 record in 1998.  We finally got back on the field to play the game in 2002.  The had to "find" the Bridge Bowl that was stolen from the Thomas More trophy case.  We literally had been using it for a punch bowl at parties..  the Bowl was left on the goaline the morning of the game.  We won the 2002 game in convincing fashion and some of the people from MSJ thought we had muddied the field on purpose to slow them down (had they played us since 1999, they'd have known that late in the season it became a mud pit.  Its been a see-saw battle ever since..  This year should be another classic.

I would say, hopefully the kids are reading this at Thomas More, but it doesn't matter.  They know... Trust me.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: formerd3db on November 12, 2008, 07:24:25 PM
SaintsFAN:

Thanks and see my reply to yours over on the HCAC board (i.e. your other board ;D)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on November 12, 2008, 11:31:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2008, 10:00:54 AM
This is the schedule for the PresAC proclaimed "Rivalry Week".

Nov. 15       1:00 PM     Thiel           Grove City                         
              1:00 PM    St. Vincent       Bethany          
      
              1:30 PM    Washington and Jefferson       Waynesburg          
      
              1:30 PM    Mount St. Joseph       Thomas More    (Bridge Bowl)            
              1:30 PM    Westminster (Pa.)       Geneva

On the rivalries board, I read about Westminster PA and Geneva.  I know about the Bridge Bowl between MSJ and TMC.

How intense are the remaining rivalries?  Is each really the most intense rivalry that your school has?  Is there another game that most of your fans think is a stronger rivalry?  Or, did W&J-Waynesburg trump some other rivalry?

Thanks for info.   :)

At Grove City, I know that a lot of our older alumni talk about the great rivalries with Westminster and Geneva that we've been able to resume this decade.

Of the "Rivalry Week" games being played this weekend, Grove City and Thiel have the longest continuous series as the teams have played every year since 1982. The Mercer County Cup came into existence in 1984, which was also Grove City's first year in the Presidents' Athletic Conference.

The Grove City-Thiel rivalry dates back to 1892. I think over the past several years the Cup has really evolved into something of great significance as it's become ingrained in both programs.

Westminster and Geneva first played in 1891. In its heyday, back in the NAIA, the rivalry may very well have been the most intense in small-college football. As Geneva continues its move into full NCAA Division III membership, that rivalry will really be ratcheted up again.

Waynesburg-W&J dates back to 1897. I would probably agree with Bob Gregg's current evaluation of the rivalries. This one is referred to as the PAC's Backyard Brawl, but I think it's a lot more like Alabama-Auburn than Pitt-WVU.

Throughout the 1990s, when the PAC was just a five-team league, every game seemed like a "rival" game because so much was at stake every time the game started. With just a four-game football schedule (8 in basketball, volleyball, etc.) there was no margin for error at all.

As one who remembers the league in these years (and I think Mr. Gregg will concur), it is great that the conference has expanded greatly to the size that a Rivalry Week is now possible.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2008, 09:45:29 PM
ra,

There is much truth to what you wrote, but to say "every game seemed like a rival game" would not be accurate.

Back in the day, League rules limited the number of players road teams could dress.  Several times, when W&J was leading by 45+ at the half, some of the guys who didn't dress in the first half were dressed and played the second half.  The clock ran, sort of like the current high school "mercy rule".  There was nothing about those games that said "rivalry".

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 13, 2008, 10:27:14 PM
Bob,

I think he probably meant for every other team...not W&J.  Especially if they knew that game against the Presidents was a loss... jockeying position for #2?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on November 13, 2008, 11:08:55 PM
I was thinking more of the mid-to-late 90s, say 1996-2001. You are correct, back when the PAC limited travel squads, there were some ugly scores rung up. I'm curious as to when that practice was phased out.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 14, 2008, 01:20:29 AM
I was in the early 90's, and they were limited then also. 

In some games, you tried to not show up the other teams late in games, but was 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' in some regards due to the limited people you could travel.

I remember a game in Bethany where Wide Recievers were trying to learn three point stances late in games because the reserve defensive ends were still making tackles behind the line of scrimmage. 

Another memory was a young reserve Quarterback seeing a coverage, and was so excited he recognized it, checked into a pass play that went for a score.   He struggled all year with reading defenses in practice, and came to the sideline thinking he would get the coaches approval for finally checking into the right play, only to get chewed out.  :D

Sorry for the 'war stories', but I think it's good they don't have those limitations now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2008, 09:41:06 AM
Go Wisconsin LAX. 

I believe that there's a 50/50 chance they beat Wisc Stevens Point.  I'm not sure what all needs to happen for W&J to get on the "table of discussion" for the committee, but good luck none-the-less. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2008, 09:54:02 AM
Hampden-Sydney or Catholic losing would be a good start.
Whitewater or Stevens Point losing wouldn't hurt.
Ithaca losing would help.
Montclair loss would clarify picture.
Perhaps a John Carroll win over Otterbein.

All of that doesn't have to happen, but it wouldn't hurt the Presidents' chances if it did!  Even a couple of them would get the Red&Black on the table.  Then, you take your shot.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2008, 09:08:05 PM
Waco Suspension Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Suspension_Bridge) was designed by Roebling in 1870 and is 475 long.  Getting raw materials to Waco was a Herculean effort.  (The Waco Bridge is single span.)

Roebling Suspension Bridge (http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/suspension.html) in Cincinnati is longer, but the Ohio River was much closer to the manufacturing centers of the country.

NCAA press release about the Bridge Bowl (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=40958).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2008, 09:11:02 AM
Article on Bridge Bowl.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081115/SPT01/811150401/1062/SPT

Bethany Head Coach Tim Weaver had a "Lou Holtz moment" this week, in talking up his team's opponent in "The Green Game":

"Saint Vincent is by far the most improved team in the conference," said Weaver. "It's night and day when looking at them from last year. Like us, they've been competitive with a lot of teams in the conference this year. They deserve a lot of credit for what they've been able to do."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2008, 05:09:15 PM
Mount St. Joe 0
Thomas More 19  F

It wasn't even this close.  MSJ's offense was bad, bad, bad.  Collier again saved the day for the Saints on a terrible weather day.  MSJ had one run that got them to TMC's 35 on their first drive, after that...nothing to speak of. 

My prevailing thought is that football is a rough game... perhaps, Kendall Owens can play next week after being knocked out of the game on a cheap shot.  I know Rod Huber doesn't condone this kind of dirty play, so it will be interesting to see what happens as a result.  Just remember, unless MSJ drops TMC again from the schedule, we'll deal with the Lions on the field.  Just like today.  I'm not calling out any names on the MSJ defense but a couple guys were talking alot...despite being down so many points.  They let emotion get the best of them....did Thomas More talk?  Yes... but they played legally and between the whistles.  Coach Hilvert's team is to be commended for taking care of business and not letting an emotional team with nothing to play for ... get to them.  Maybe next year if Pat asks me to talk about games in week 11, I'm going to mention the new lows the rivalry got to today.  In fact, you can bet on it.



there's going to be a major shakeup among playoff teams... early game scores show Wabash losing the Monon Bell game, and Moravian has defeated Muhlenburg.  The Mules still get in, but probably as a #6-8 seed.  Before there was talk of them being moved east (mostly by their own fans) to be a #1 seed.  St John Fisher is also out after losing at Alfred today.. they were Pool A if they won.. lost too many games to get in as a "C"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2008, 06:10:51 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2008, 09:54:02 AM
Hampden-Sydney or Catholic losing would be a good start.  BOTH did!
Whitewater or Stevens Point losing wouldn't hurt.  NOPE
Ithaca losing would help.   No, but the SJF loss might have helped more
Montclair loss would clarify picture.  Clearly
Perhaps a John Carroll win over Otterbein.

All of that doesn't have to happen, but it wouldn't hurt the Presidents' chances if it did!  Even a couple of them would get the Red&Black on the table.  Then, you take your shot.

RPI bowed out too.  And the beatdown goes on!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 16, 2008, 11:16:55 AM
Bob,

Only a few hours left to see the official results. D3 has W&J in with CNU headed that way. Let's see how the NCAA sees it. Pat and gang are usually not too far off the mark.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 16, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
Hey Bob - you're in!! I most likely will not make the trip. Too bad, I was hoping to meet up again. But other commitments will keep me away.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
congrats to the Presidents.  You guys need alot to happen and thankfully, it did.  They get another chance to compete... thoughts on the games?

Thomas More's loss to Geneva hurts.. before, they were in line for a higher seed.  Now instead of MUC, we travel to North Central.  Their work is cut out for them.  It will be a good experience for a young team. 

I think the PAC is going to be dealing with Hilverts crew for the next few years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: matblake on November 16, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
Congrats to Thomas More.  Here are North Central's cumulative stats (http://www.northcentralcollege.edu/athletics/stats/football/2008/TEAMCUME.HTM)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2008, 06:11:47 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 16, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
Hey Bob - you're in!! I most likely will not make the trip. Too bad, I was hoping to meet up again. But other commitments will keep me away.

Good Luck!

Hey '85.  Sorry you won't be making the trip.

As I said about 10 o'clock last night--

In, in the South, and at home!

I did have that complete package first!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 06:13:27 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2008, 06:11:47 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 16, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
Hey Bob - you're in!! I most likely will not make the trip. Too bad, I was hoping to meet up again. But other commitments will keep me away.

Good Luck!

Hey '85.  Sorry you won't be making the trip.

As I said about 10 o'clock last night--

In, in the South, and at home!

I did have that complete package first!
Courtesy of HSU going to UMHB in the first round!   >:(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2008, 06:23:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 06:13:27 PM
[Courtesy of HSU going to UMHB in the first round!   >:(

As I said last night in my 10 o'clock post!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2008, 06:24:06 PM
I am happy for the Presidents... because of the loss to Geneva, Thomas More is in worse shape (on road, in North at #1 NCC) than W&J.  .  . eventhough they beat W&J.

I think its a lesson to be learned for the young Saints..  You HAVE to show up to each game.  Too bad they didn't have a bye week to get over the win.  

The Saints are banged up after yesterday's win in the Bridge Bowl.  I'm happy with the win.. very happy (more so than for winning the PAC), and I hope they can get healthy quickly and play their best game of the year on Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: New Tradition on November 16, 2008, 06:29:43 PM
Congrats to Thomas More!  We will be looking forward to seeing you all in Naperville next Saturday.  If you are planning on making the trip an overnight, you'll find plenty of great restaurants and nightlife right next to Benedetti-Wehrli Stadium in downtown Naperville, as well!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2008, 06:38:30 PM
Thanks, NT. 

I've been to Naperville and have family and friends in the area.  I'm not 100% sure about making the trip yet, but if I do... I'm sure we'll fit in the game also   ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2008, 11:54:35 PM
re:  CNU at W&J

I did some research on Christopher Newport last week for the Triple Take... what I found was staggering.  The Captains do not throw very much period.  They have a transfer RB from University of Cincinnati ...who has a 283 yard game this year.  Going into last weekend, they had only thrown for 810 yards.  This is still a crazy low stat...even if you take into account they lost a game to the Hurricane in week 1 against Wesley.

The focal point is simple for the Presidents... stop the run.  Do this and they win.  If they don't, that defense will be gassed and then anything can happen (playaction, long runs). 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2008, 12:23:19 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2008, 06:11:47 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 16, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
Hey Bob - you're in!! I most likely will not make the trip. Too bad, I was hoping to meet up again. But other commitments will keep me away.

Good Luck!

Hey '85.  Sorry you won't be making the trip.

As I said about 10 o'clock last night--

In, in the South, and at home!

I did have that complete package first!

Did you want a cookie?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2008, 06:43:16 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2008, 12:23:19 AM

Did you want a cookie?

No, thanks.  Since the big "D", I bake all my own.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 09:45:35 AM
I prefer brownies...

I think I met a great girl for this Saturday night... someone compared her to Gus Frerotte though!!  She literally told us that she "had muscles in her brain and worked them out"... I made sure she repeated it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2008, 09:47:57 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2008, 11:54:35 PM
re:  CNU at W&J

I did some research on Christopher Newport last week for the Triple Take... what I found was staggering.  The Captains do not throw very much period.  They have a transfer RB from University of Cincinnati ...who has a 283 yard game this year.  Going into last weekend, they had only thrown for 810 yards.  This is still a crazy low stat...even if you take into account they lost a game to the Hurricane in week 1 against Wesley.

The focal point is simple for the Presidents... stop the run.  Do this and they win.  If they don't, that defense will be gassed and then anything can happen (playaction, long runs). 

That's about right. The RB you speak of had 4 straight 200 yd games. At one point he was leading the nation in rushing per game. I think he fell behind by .05 after only gaining 181 (he needed 182) in the last game. I'm sure W&J is watching game film right now!

And I heard yesterday that Swallow is still the QB. Yikes!!! He's good and I was hoping CNU would never have to play him again!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: JAdaPrince on November 17, 2008, 10:19:44 AM
I wish Thomas More all the best in the playoffs ... The thing I don't understand is how a loss to a non-NCAA Division III school (Geneva isn't a full member yet) hurts their seed. If regional competition is the first criteria, then the Saints' regional record was the same before and after the Geneva game ... and they enter the playoffs at 8-1 in region.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 10:55:23 AM
jada,

It doesn't matter... theoretically it shouldn't have hurt the Saints because they are still in transition... but still, a loss is a loss.  I think it taught this young team a lesson.. and hopefully this helps us this weekend in Naperville. 

Bottom line.. the playoffs are about playing teams that earned postseason status.  I like that we're playing the #2 in the country on Saturday.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on November 17, 2008, 02:45:25 PM
SaintsFAN.. Been busy and just hopped on line to see the brackets. Thought TMC deserved better than an #8 seed, especially if W & J gets a #5. My son has a couple of high school teammates on North Central and they look real strong this year.

Matt's surgery went well this morning so it's 2 months in a brace and then rehab. No sports till next fall.

Good luck at North Central!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: New Tradition on November 20, 2008, 10:50:09 PM
I can't believe how quiet you guys are in here with this being a playoff week!  So what can we expect from Thomas More?  What kind of front do they run defensively?  What are their strengths?  Are they predominantly a passing or running team?  What offensive set do they prefer?  Who are their stud players?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:35:18 AM
New Tradition,

There's not alot of actual Thomas More fans on post patterns.  I think there's maybe one or two others... but pretty much I'm it.  I don't like to talk chit on here as others do. 

I know that Thomas More greatly respects the season NCC had... and knows they aren't a slouch.  They've been in the playoffs recently.  Its going to be a tough game for the Saints... but I'll say this.  TMC is very fast offensively.  Now thats not to say NCC hasn't seen the speed TMC will bring, but when opponents talk about them thats what comes up.  Coach Thorne also mentioned TMC was faster than they originally thought.  They have an agile offensive line with some size.  The offense was created to mimic what West Virginia has been running the past few years with Pat White.  RB's to keep an eye on are Cordario Collier, Anthony Knott and Kendall Owens.  They get the ball an equal amount and I'm not sure that teams can key on one guy back there.  When Thomas More is playing well on offense, they are spreading the ball around (ala WVU) with these speedsters.  I'm not a fan of saying that a team "hasn't seen an offense" but I think this attack isn't easy to replicate.  You'll know they're playing well if they are breaking off 20 and 30 yard runs to change field position.  QB, Trevor Stellman is a very good triggerman.  He has good speed and a very nice touch on the ball. 

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 

Should be a great game... I think it comes down to speed vs power.  From what I've heard NCC is very good at running the ball and play action.  The QB has made teams pay for stacking the line... I look for a closer game than what some of the people have been saying...  No excuses, this Thomas More team is still a young one in Coach Hilvert's 2nd season...  some of the freshman contributions have made this run possible (Knott and Owens along with soph transfers Justin Smith at DE and Martez Williams at CB). 

Win or lose, this will be a great experience for the Saints. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2008, 10:45:04 AM
Quote from: New Tradition on November 20, 2008, 10:50:09 PM
So what can we expect from Thomas More?  What kind of front do they run defensively?  What are their strengths?  Are they predominantly a passing or running team?  What offensive set do they prefer?  Who are their stud players?

Sounds like a fishing expedition to me....


But, for the record, I think it comes down to Thomas More's ability to defend the run.

If the Saints do it like they did against W&J, they can win.
If it looks like the defense against Geneva, warmup the busses.  It's over, quickly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:52:30 AM
Interesting take from Keith on this week's ATN:

Home team least deserving of a home game
Washington & Jefferson. The Presidents were on the bubble when Week 11 began and probably wouldn't have gotten in if a couple of teams handled business. I don't have any problem with W&J making the field, but when the team that beat you to win the conference (Thomas More) goes on the road, as do teams like Hardin-Simmons and Wesley, and one of the last teams in plays at home, that isn't right.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:53:09 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2008, 10:45:04 AM
Quote from: New Tradition on November 20, 2008, 10:50:09 PM
So what can we expect from Thomas More?  What kind of front do they run defensively?  What are their strengths?  Are they predominantly a passing or running team?  What offensive set do they prefer?  Who are their stud players?

Sounds like a fishing expedition to me....


But, for the record, I think it comes down to Thomas More's ability to defend the run.

If the Saints do it like they did against W&J, they can win.
If it looks like the defense against Geneva, warmup the busses.  It's over, quickly.

Agreed, Bob... on everything. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ncc58 on November 21, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:35:18 AM

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 


A 4-3-5! I hate when teams play 12 man defenses!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2008, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:52:30 AM
Interesting take from Keith on this week's ATN:

Home team least deserving of a home game
Washington & Jefferson. The Presidents were on the bubble when Week 11 began and probably wouldn't have gotten in if a couple of teams handled business. I don't have any problem with W&J making the field, but when the team that beat you to win the conference (Thomas More) goes on the road, as do teams like Hardin-Simmons and Wesley, and one of the last teams in plays at home, that isn't right.


Interesting, to say the least.

#1--The Presidents were clearly on the bubble.  They very likely wouldn't have gotten in had others TCB.  But the Presidents did and the others didn't.  That's what happens in bubble situations.

#2--Do you have a problem with the most recent D-III Football.com poll?  That panel of football experts gave Thomas More 162 points less than W&J in the most recent Top 25 poll.  That's 163-1.

#3--I've oft written about what is "supposed" to matter and what isn't.  Thomas More's loss to Geneva was a loss.  Every team in the PAC HAD to play Geneva.  That PAC requirement deprived every team the opportunity to pick up another win in a game that was supposed to count in the criteria.  But whether it is supposed to count or not, Thomas More lost to a team that W&J beat by four touchdowns.  Yes, Thomas More beat W&J head to head and won the PAC AQ.  Does the Saints overall body of work merit a top 4 (or 5) regional seeding, ahead of a team they beat?  The AA D-III Football Committee says no.

#4--While we could discuss/debate the home game for Wesley vis a vis W&J, there is no debate about Hardin-Simmons, and no argument either.  However, that issue is not one that the AA D-III Football Committee can do much about.  And it appears, in the West, that they tried to do something about it, and were rebuffed by the bean counters.

Perhaps the Presidents are the least deserving host in the tournament.  But they wouldn't have been hosting had Thomas More beaten Geneva two weeks ago, and others who soiled their sheets over the past two weeks done what they could have done.  In fact, had even a couple of them done so, W&J would have stayed outside the bubble with no one to blame but themselves.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 11:55:54 AM
Quote from: midwestfb on November 21, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:35:18 AM

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 


A 4-3-5! I hate when teams play 12 man defenses!!!  ;)

Yeah I'm a retard and its been saved for posterity.  In my defense, I had just got done yelling at someone here for my job.... for not doing their job. 

I guess you could say the 12 man has been the key to our season.  Hopefully the refs take the "Hush Money" this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 11:58:58 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2008, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:52:30 AM
Interesting take from Keith on this week's ATN:

Home team least deserving of a home game
Washington & Jefferson. The Presidents were on the bubble when Week 11 began and probably wouldn't have gotten in if a couple of teams handled business. I don't have any problem with W&J making the field, but when the team that beat you to win the conference (Thomas More) goes on the road, as do teams like Hardin-Simmons and Wesley, and one of the last teams in plays at home, that isn't right.


Interesting, to say the least.

#1--The Presidents were clearly on the bubble.  They very likely wouldn't have gotten in had others TCB.  But the Presidents did and the others didn't.  That's what happens in bubble situations.

#2--Do you have a problem with the most recent D-III Football.com poll?  That panel of football experts gave Thomas More 162 points less than W&J in the most recent Top 25 poll.  That's 163-1.

#3--I've oft written about what is "supposed" to matter and what isn't.  Thomas More's loss to Geneva was a loss.  Every team in the PAC HAD to play Geneva.  That PAC requirement deprived every team the opportunity to pick up another win in a game that was supposed to count in the criteria.  But whether it is supposed to count or not, Thomas More lost to a team that W&J beat by four touchdowns.  Yes, Thomas More beat W&J head to head and won the PAC AQ.  Does the Saints overall body of work merit a top 4 (or 5) regional seeding, ahead of a team they beat?  The AA D-III Football Committee says no.

#4--While we could discuss/debate the home game for Wesley vis a vis W&J, there is no debate about Hardin-Simmons, and no argument either.  However, that issue is not one that the AA D-III Football Committee can do much about.  And it appears, in the West, that they tried to do something about it, and were rebuffed by the bean counters.

Perhaps the Presidents are the least deserving host in the tournament.  But they wouldn't have been hosting had Thomas More beaten Geneva two weeks ago, and others who soiled their sheets over the past two weeks done what they could have done.  In fact, had even a couple of them done so, W&J would have stayed outside the bubble with no one to blame but themselves.

I'm not passing blame off for the Geneva loss and I'm not btching about where the Saints ended up.  I just thought it would be interesting to have that as a topic in here.  I'm not a W&J basher... take it easy. 

I'm glad they didn't have W&J play Muhlenburg and CNU play Wesley... I think this is a better match up for the Presidents.  The PAC needs a couple playoff wins this year and looks like W&J is going to be the team to do it... unless the Saints play perfectly in Naperville. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2008, 12:07:48 PM
SaintsFan, my points were at you.

I didn't see that topic on any other board, so I wrote my response on this one.

Head to head is a factor.  It's not the only factor.  And without the AA flight restrictions (more stringent than TSA flight restrictions), W&J would have been on the road at the Muhles.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 12:24:53 PM
Yep...I brought it here with it being about the Presidents. 

Carry on..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: New Tradition on November 21, 2008, 01:12:32 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2008, 10:45:04 AM
Sounds like a fishing expedition to me....

No fishing expedition here.  I was just curious as to what to expect from them as I have never seen Thomas More before.

To even matters up, I'll tell you about NCC.  As far as the offense goes, they run mostly spread, but don't throw out if it as much as they used to.  Instead, they get people out of the box by going 4 wide and pounding the rock.  The 2 people that they leave in the backfield: QB Aaron Fanthorpe, and RB Dom Sulo were both first team all Conference players (Fanthorpe was also the CCIW Offensive Player of the Year.)  To spell Sulo, the Cardinals will give Thomas More a few doses of Mike Mucha (transfer from U of I) and Butch Rossberg.  The offensive line is pretty big and physical, and exceptionally well coached.  The Cards are very deep at wide receiver and they use all of them.  Fanthorpe definitely likes to spread the ball around and use all the weapons that he has around him, and is also pretty good at picking up yardage on foot.

Defensively, their base is a 3-3-5, but they just about never send only 3.  The defense is ridiculously complicated and all based on checks done at the line, so I won't even try to tell you about tendencies because they all change week to week based on formation, motion, etc.  I do know that their run defense is a bit more stout than their pass D.  All I have to say is that whether you are throwing or passing, try to avoid #40 (Matt Wenger, First team CCIW and CCIW Defensive Player of the Year) if that is physically possible...

As far as the special teams go, Head Coach John Thorne (CCIW Coach of the Year) takes a special interest in them, as they are usually the biggest momentum shifters in a game, and acts as his own special teams coordinator.  Adam Pucylowski was a first team CCIW punter and the Cardinal return game is solid.  NCC has a plethora of kids that can return the football (Tony Dieppa, Joe Schniederbauer, Joe Rubin) and they have all been used in the past couple of games, so I don't know who we will see tomorrow, but it should be fun to watch in any case.

I wish safe travels to anyone coming up tonight or tomorrow morning to see the game!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: New Tradition on November 21, 2008, 01:12:32 PM
Defensively, their base is a 3-3-5, but they just about never send only 3.  The defense is ridiculously complicated and all based on checks done at the line, so I won't even try to tell you about tendencies because they all change week to week based on formation, motion, etc.  I do know that their run defense is a bit more stout than their pass D.  All I have to say is that whether you are throwing or passing, try to avoid #40 (Matt Wenger, First team CCIW and CCIW Defensive Player of the Year) if that is physically possible...




As far as accolades go, sounds like NCC's QB and LB had nice years.  All the PAC has is MVP and that award went to Bobby Swallow (rightfully so).  The nature of the offense also contributed to the Saints not having the MVP on their team --they spread "the wealth" as part of their attack... resulting in it being hard to identify the "go-to player" on offense, its changed week to week. 

Jim Hilvert is the PAC "Coach of the Year" because in 2008, Thomas More was picked to be in the lower half of the PAC by media and coaches.  Hilvert and his staff got to 8 wins and the PAC Title with a very young team. 

I'm sure the plan is to confuse NCC with formations and motion.  It should be fun to see if the Thomas More offense dictates what they see from NCC's defense or vice versa. 

Defensively, as Bob said, Thomas More MUST stop the run.  W&J spread the field and the Saints responded to their run game, but I think the NCC attack will have a different feel to it altogether. 

I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to the game tomorrow... but will be there to see round 2.  Now this may appear I'm saying that TMC will win, but Pat has mentioned me doing some color analyst work via internet radio in Round 2.  NCC was mentioned as a possibility....but I'd love it to be the Saints 2nd round game --- but they have to play perfectly on defense for them to have a shot it appears. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 21, 2008, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 11:55:54 AM
Quote from: midwestfb on November 21, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:35:18 AM

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 


A 4-3-5! I hate when teams play 12 man defenses!!!  ;)

Yeah I'm a retard and its been saved for posterity.  In my defense, I had just got done yelling at someone here for my job.... for not doing their job. 
I guess you could say the 12 man has been the key to our season.  Hopefully the refs take the "Hush Money" this weekend.

Yikes! I'd hate to have your job where yelling at other people is a requirement to getting things done!!  :D :D

Deep breaths....and beer always helps!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on November 21, 2008, 04:26:16 PM
Congrats and best of luck to both of the PAC teams in the playoffs this year. Having 2 teams from our conference in the playoffs is great. Thomas More is a strong and fast team and should turn some heads. W&J playing CNU is relatively familiar territory. Coach Kelchner has done a great job building that team, and Coach Sirriani continues to field successful teams. Rumor is Coach Tomlin will have some words for the Captains on Friday. He spoke to our team during the preseason, and he is a very talented speaker. Good luck to all involved
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 21, 2008, 04:38:50 PM
That's cool! Tomlin and Kelchner go back to their days at William & Mary together. Plus Tomlin is from Newport News.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 21, 2008, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 11:55:54 AM
Quote from: midwestfb on November 21, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:35:18 AM

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 


A 4-3-5! I hate when teams play 12 man defenses!!!  ;)

Yeah I'm a retard and its been saved for posterity.  In my defense, I had just got done yelling at someone here for my job.... for not doing their job. 
I guess you could say the 12 man has been the key to our season.  Hopefully the refs take the "Hush Money" this weekend.

Yikes! I'd hate to have your job where yelling at other people is a requirement to getting things done!!  :D :D

Deep breaths....and beer always helps!!

exactly.... I'm in the logistics industry... biggest food holiday of the year approaches and some ppl are so damned apathetic!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 21, 2008, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 21, 2008, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 11:55:54 AM
Quote from: midwestfb on November 21, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2008, 10:35:18 AM

Defensively the Saints lineup in a 4 DL, 4 LB set (its looks more like the 4-3-5 that is popular at the moment)... the 2 outside LB are very fast and have the size of safeties... the 2 MLB are typical size 6'2 240 and 6' 230 and flow very well to the ball.  The defensive line is very quick, Tyler Owens is 200 lbs on the defensive line but was all-PAC...  they have good size and motors on the rest of the defensive line. 


A 4-3-5! I hate when teams play 12 man defenses!!!  ;)

Yeah I'm a retard and its been saved for posterity.  In my defense, I had just got done yelling at someone here for my job.... for not doing their job. 
I guess you could say the 12 man has been the key to our season.  Hopefully the refs take the "Hush Money" this weekend.

Yikes! I'd hate to have your job where yelling at other people is a requirement to getting things done!!  :D :D

Deep breaths....and beer always helps!!

exactly.... I'm in the logistics industry... biggest food holiday of the year approaches and some ppl are so damned apathetic!!


Tell them to take a break...I already have my turkey!  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 02:27:09 PM
NCC 20-10 at halftime.

Matt Clark intercepted a pass at the goal line to quell another NCC drive. 

TMC's safeties are getting beat repeatedly deep.  If they don't step up this half and play like they have all year, its going to be a blowout.  Talking with some alums via text, we can't believe this development.  I'm not there, so I can't say if this is the fastest WR's as a group that TMC has faced, but our safeties are sure making it sound that way.

Time to wake up.

TMC is definitely upset at the way the half ended on a 14 point run for NCC>.... and they should be.  They let the Cardinals escape the first half with a lead.

the Saints have run for 45 yards... i see them pulling out a few tricks... and breaking a couple long ones.  W&J held them to that output if you take away the long runs also.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 02:51:39 PM
Congrats to W&J on the 1st round win at home.

TMC is trailing 23-10 midway through the 3rd quarter. 

NCC is playing well on offense... 9.8 yards per play in the first half.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on November 22, 2008, 02:58:40 PM
Congrats to W&J. Another win against CNU. And another late comeback falls short for CNU.

Good luck to the Presidents in round 2....Millsaps?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 04:01:52 PM
44-23 Final in Naperville, IL.

Thomas More played well for the first two or three series..  NCC was just too much offensively and defensively for the Saints. 

The Saints will be back next year.  Young team, that learned alot this year.  They'll have Geneva and W&J circled on the calendar for sure... along with a payback game at JCU. 

Interesting note today for PAC fans:  RB's Anthony Knott (ankle) and Kendall Owens (knee) both were out today.  Collier did everything that he could... but the sweep with our WR's just didn't do the same amount of damage as it did this year with Owens and Knott.  Thats not an excuse for today.  NCC was the superior team.  I think the lesson here for 2009 is to NOT take anyone lightly... the Geneva loss really cost the Saints some positioning in the Regional Rankings which put them on the road against NCC as an 8 seed.

W&J-Millsaps?  Sounds like an offensive show.  I look forward to seeing the Presidents win down in Jackson, MS.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2008, 04:04:23 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 04:01:52 PM
W&J-Millsaps?  Sounds like an offensive show.  I look forward to seeing the Presidents win down in Jackson, MS.

Maybe in 2009.    ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
well, I don't know about that... W&J's QB, Bobby Swallow is Senior this year.

This would be a great win for the PAC.  Curry/Ithaca is a great example of possibilities...

W&J has trouble with TX teams and Wesley in the playoffs..


It WILL be a shoot-out, none-the-less. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
well, I don't know about that... W&J's QB, Bobby Swallow is Senior this year.

This would be a great win for the PAC.  Curry/Ithaca is a great example of possibilities...

W&J has trouble with TX teams and Wesley in the playoffs..


It WILL be a shoot-out, none-the-less. 
Millsaps has the same attributes as the HSU's, UMHB's and Trinity's that you have seen.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ncc58 on November 22, 2008, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 02:27:09 PM
NCC 20-10 at halftime.

Matt Clark intercepted a pass at the goal line to quell another NCC drive. 

TMC's safeties are getting beat repeatedly deep.  If they don't step up this half and play like they have all year, its going to be a blowout.  Talking with some alums via text, we can't believe this development.  I'm not there, so I can't say if this is the fastest WR's as a group that TMC has faced, but our safeties are sure making it sound that way.

NCC did this to everyone all year. Their WRs aren't the fastest WRs you'll see. But they all run good routes and have good hands, and the scheme is solid. Fanthorpe is very accurate as a QB, and he was exceptionally sharp today. TMC actually shut down Hlavac who is the best receiver. But MacIntosh had a huge game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 05:11:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
well, I don't know about that... W&J's QB, Bobby Swallow is Senior this year.

This would be a great win for the PAC.  Curry/Ithaca is a great example of possibilities...

W&J has trouble with TX teams and Wesley in the playoffs..


It WILL be a shoot-out, none-the-less. 
Millsaps has the same attributes as the HSU's, UMHB's and Trinity's that you have seen.

I don't agree --- from what I've heard.  The MC offense is probably better than what "they've" seen from HSU's, UMHB's and Trinity's... right?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 05:11:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
well, I don't know about that... W&J's QB, Bobby Swallow is Senior this year.

This would be a great win for the PAC.  Curry/Ithaca is a great example of possibilities...

W&J has trouble with TX teams and Wesley in the playoffs..


It WILL be a shoot-out, none-the-less. 
Millsaps has the same attributes as the HSU's, UMHB's and Trinity's that you have seen.

I don't agree --- from what I've heard.  The MC offense is probably better than what "they've" seen from HSU's, UMHB's and Trinity's... right?
I think that the verdict is still out on the relative prowess of Millsaps vs. UMHB.   ;)

If W&J wants to try a shoot-out with Millsaps, then I think that the Majors win by 3 TDs.

Millsaps has a great QB. (He is my candidate for the Gagliardi.)  UMHB is playing better football now than earlier in the season.  UMHB has said that the team thinks that it is peaking.

We are definitely getting the rivalries, northern versus southern half of the brackets.   ;)

I am looking forward to the games next week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2008, 06:00:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 05:11:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
well, I don't know about that... W&J's QB, Bobby Swallow is Senior this year.

This would be a great win for the PAC.  Curry/Ithaca is a great example of possibilities...

W&J has trouble with TX teams and Wesley in the playoffs..


It WILL be a shoot-out, none-the-less. 
Millsaps has the same attributes as the HSU's, UMHB's and Trinity's that you have seen.

I don't agree --- from what I've heard.  The MC offense is probably better than what "they've" seen from HSU's, UMHB's and Trinity's... right?

Well, Trinity release 2008 is certainly not in the same class.  I would certainly say the Millsaps offense rates up there with Trinity's aerial circus years of the late 90's/early 00s, but it's a different kind of passing attack.  Trinity killed you with the deep ball, Millsaps kills you with a very accurate and efficient passing attack spread all over the field - and Juan Joseph can be a very effective runner when circumstances dictate.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: New Tradition on November 22, 2008, 08:31:11 PM
Congrats to TMC on a great season!  I was impressed with the demeanor of the team.  They never laid down when a lot of teams would have cashed it in, right up to returning a punt for a TD as time expired.  Looking at the roster, it appears that they have a TON of youth.  If they are this good now, I really believe that they will be a FORCE in the next year or 2.  To the players who read: now you know how the postseason feels.  Get after it in the weightroom this offseason and increase that speed and agility, and we'll see you this time next year!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: formerd3db on November 22, 2008, 09:10:32 PM
SaintsFAN:

Sorry to see that your TMC lost today.  However, while it is always disappointing not to advance on in the playoffs, overall, I think you and they can be proud that they had a pretty good season.

We played the Hope/Alma final regular season "make-up" game today, so it was fun to see some of my former colleagues there (and especially more fun for me since we i.e. HOPE won ;D :D).

Anyway, I hope you have a most enjoyable and blessed Thanksgiving holiday this week.  Talk to you later.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 24, 2008, 10:02:37 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN
...stupid penalties,

SaintsFan, we talked about this a couple weeks ago, right after the W&J loss at TMC.

Unfortunately for the Saints, they didn't learn.

They took a lot on November 1st.  And failing to learn from mistakes contributed to the end of the season.

Here's hoping for your sake that the underclassmen learned from their second day at school (at least in this subject).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2008, 12:35:10 PM
yeah... I was pretty fired up on Saturday.  The penalties hurt, but they weren't killer.... at least not compared to with the NCC passing attack.  Their WR's ran by the TMC db's pretty easily and alarmingly.  The QB was as accurate as Swallow... but threw alot of deep routes (7's-8s-9's), and then when we tried this, they gashed us with the run.  It was thorough...  it wouldn't have mattered if we didn't have any penalties.  We didn't play very well on defense and the offense sputtered in the 2nd and 3rd Quarters.

We definitely need to clean up penalties for the defense of the PAC in 2009... hopefully we aren't talking about this again next year at any point.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: evacuee on November 29, 2008, 03:55:41 PM

To the WJ faithful,

Bravo.  Great job by Sirriani.  I got a little aggravated in the thrid quarter when they went deep on third and short, but I love watching the old guard meet up with the up and coming by saying, "SIT DOWN, SON!"

I love it.  Good luck to y'all. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 29, 2008, 03:56:03 PM
Great win Presidents!   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crufootball on November 29, 2008, 04:31:01 PM
Great win Presidents, thank you for saving me a long car ride and I look forward to seeing you guys again.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Sader4life on November 29, 2008, 04:59:20 PM
Presidents you have saved me a 491 mile or 530 mile or (whatever the NCAA wakes up and decides is the distance) worth of gas. Wow I really didnt see that one coming.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: seventiesraider on November 29, 2008, 09:55:33 PM
You guys still mad they brought in Sirriani? Great win.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 11:46:51 PM
Excellent win W&J!  You definately surpised more than one of us! ;)  Good luck next week.

-Ski
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MajorDad on November 30, 2008, 05:12:44 AM
Congrats on the victory. I was quite impressed with your QB & RB tandum, those guys gave us such a fit. Kudo's to your defense for stepping it up in the 2nd half inside the 30. We couldn't get much in those situations. Again congrats and good luck as you move toward Salem.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: umhb2001 on December 01, 2008, 07:23:40 PM
Does anyone know if W&J football highlights are carried by any news station?  Our CBS, NBC and ABC station carry hightlights, but I can find none for the Presidents.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 01, 2008, 08:47:46 PM
It's hard enough getting scores on, let alone pictures.

I doubt you'll find any on any of the Pittsburgh channels.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: umhb2001 on December 01, 2008, 08:51:32 PM
That is too bad!  I am always looking to try and get more pub for UMHB!  We have to fight hard with TTech, UT, and T A&M so close by, but I guess because there are so many towns, the smaller ones, like Temple, and Waco, can carry the D3 game highlights.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: umhb2001 on December 02, 2008, 12:58:58 PM
I don't see as much talk on here as is on the ASC board.  How come?  What do President fans think?  Have y'all faced any top ranked D's this year?  Do you see your self as more of a passing or rushing team?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on December 03, 2008, 03:49:20 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 29, 2008, 09:55:33 PM
You guys still mad they brought in Sirriani? Great win.

I don't think anyone is 'mad' regardless of the outcome last week, or this season.   There is an expectation at W&J, like there is at Mount or any other respective program.   It's okay to question if those expectations are being met.   

I think people that are fans/support the college can be upset when they don't win the PAC or lose at home to a #8 seed.  I think they can be thrilled (as I was) when they have the upset they did last week.  Hopefully they can continue it.   Good luck to all of them!

I remember some time ago they did a show through Fox Sports Pittsburgh (though not sure if it was FSN, Prime, or KBL then) that did a highlight show, interview, etc at the end of Luckhardt's tenure into Banaszak's.  I have seen some 'shows' with Cal U and Robert Morris since, but I guess the W&J show has long since been dusted.   


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 04, 2008, 04:52:45 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on December 03, 2008, 03:49:20 PM
I remember some time ago they did a show through Fox Sports Pittsburgh (though not sure if it was FSN, Prime, or KBL then) that did a highlight show, interview, etc at the end of Luckhardt's tenure into Banaszak's.  I have seen some 'shows' with Cal U and Robert Morris since, but I guess the W&J show has long since been dusted.   

Mark & I hosted those shows.  It was a lot of fun, lot of work too.

Lucky found the money/twisted the arms, whatever to buy the time to put the weekly show on the tube.  That's what's happening now at Cal, too.  When they are televised locally, it's because Lucky/Cal have found the cashinski to pony up.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on December 04, 2008, 06:39:00 PM
You probably could speak to this much better than myself, but I figured it's demise was in part due to Luckhardt 'leaving for health reasons' and Mitchell coming on board after Burnett left. 

I may be biased, but I thought it was actually informational, and sold past and present student athletes.   Tough to do I'm sure with the time you had.

You all did a good job with the show.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 04, 2008, 10:12:44 PM
Lucky did leave coaching, at the time, for health reasons.

I was with the team in Virginia where he couldn't stand during the game.
I was with the team following the decision to step down to stay alive.

When Coach and Mrs. L got the clean bill, he couldn't stay off the sidelines.

Some people were born to teach.  Some to diagnose.  Lucky was born to be a football coach, and he'll go out someday not very far from a football field.


Thanks for the compliment about the TV show.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crufootball on December 04, 2008, 10:36:28 PM
So anybody planning on making the trip down to Belton this weekend? Judging from the weather channel it looks like you guys could use some sun. Also I was wondering do you guys have indoor training areas or anything?

Weather forecast for Belton on Sat is a high of 63 and a low of 36, sunny
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on December 05, 2008, 12:20:34 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 04, 2008, 10:12:44 PM
Lucky did leave coaching, at the time, for health reasons.

I was with the team in Virginia where he couldn't stand during the game.
I was with the team following the decision to step down to stay alive.

When Coach and Mrs. L got the clean bill, he couldn't stay off the sidelines.

Some people were born to teach.  Some to diagnose.  Lucky was born to be a football coach, and he'll go out someday not very far from a football field.

Thanks for the compliment about the TV show.

I put 'health reasons' that way because although I know heard of some legit issues,  many felt part of those were due to conflicts between him and the new president at that time, and may even have had more to do with that transition.  I obviously would defer that to you because that was past my years there. 

I didn't realize his health was to that extreme though.  Glad he is doing well, and it's no surprise to anyone that played for him or worked with him closely the success he took to Cal.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: seventiesraider on December 05, 2008, 12:40:12 AM
Good luck this weekend. I'd love to see Swallow get to play a "home" game in Alliance as well as to see Coach Sirianni back in Mount Union Stadium. Of course Mount still as an axe to grind with Mary Hardin Baylor, so we'll just be happy to get by SUNY Cortland. ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 05, 2008, 04:01:40 AM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 05, 2008, 12:40:12 AM
Good luck this weekend. I'd love to see Swallow get to play a "home" game in Alliance as well as to see Coach Sirianni back in Mount Union Stadium. Of course Mount still as an axe to grind with Mary Hardin Baylor, so we'll just be happy to get by SUNY Cortland. ;)

I doubt you'll see Swallow or Sirianni back in Mount Union Stadium this year, seventies.  The North and East Region winners play in the semifinals and then face the winner of the South and West Regions in Salem, VA. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 05, 2008, 09:49:58 AM
Quote from: crufootball on December 04, 2008, 10:36:28 PM
Also I was wondering do you guys have indoor training areas or anything?


For what?  It's football, for heaven's sake!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crufootball on December 05, 2008, 10:05:41 AM
Haha very true Bob, but I am a Texan so that white fluffy stuff that is falling in your parts is a pretty foreign substance to me,
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 05, 2008, 10:45:21 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 05, 2008, 09:49:58 AM
Quote from: crufootball on December 04, 2008, 10:36:28 PM
Also I was wondering do you guys have indoor training areas or anything?


For what?  It's football, for heaven's sake!

You laugh but there are actually high schools in Texas that have indoor practice facilities.   Blew my mind when I first heard about them when we were in Dallas.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 05, 2008, 11:25:00 AM
Ron, there are more and more of these facilities being built at the high schools.  It is not just football that uses them, however.  Band, track and field, ROTC, dance and drill, baseball, etc.  I wish we had some in the San Antonio area because as you know it gets rather hot in South Texas.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CRU96 on December 05, 2008, 11:29:39 AM
I read that UWWhitewater was indoors at the Univeristy of Wisonsin.  I couldn't imagine that the Univeristy of Texas (sixty miles south of Belton) would allow the Cru to use their indoor for a pratice.  It would be nice if they did! ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CRU96 on December 05, 2008, 11:32:11 AM
To all President fans,

Safe travels to Belton for the game.  Welcome to Texas and I hope that you enjoy your stay.  Looking forward to a great game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crudbdad on December 05, 2008, 12:41:26 PM
Hope all the WJ fans have a safe trip. There will be some of us tailgating on the SW side of the stadium by the elementary food. Stop on by for some Texas hospitality.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 05, 2008, 01:32:30 PM
Quote from: CRU96 on December 05, 2008, 11:29:39 AM
I read that UWWhitewater was indoors at the Univeristy of Wisonsin.  I couldn't imagine that the Univeristy of Texas (sixty miles south of Belton) would allow the Cru to use their indoor for a pratice.  It would be nice if they did! ;)

I bet that them both being UW-state schools made this easier to accomplish, not to mention the Badgers taking a dump for the final 2/3rd's of their season. 

Ron,

We also had indoor practice facilities back in Cincinnat in the early 1990's at my high school.  The basketball and volleyball teams called it a gym  :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CRU96 on December 05, 2008, 01:42:39 PM


Ah, the ole gym.  It is the standard facility for all occasions! Including football, basketball, and the Homecoming dance.  :D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: seventiesraider on December 05, 2008, 01:45:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on December 05, 2008, 01:32:30 PM
Quote from: CRU96 on December 05, 2008, 11:29:39 AM
I read that UWWhitewater was indoors at the Univeristy of Wisonsin.  I couldn't imagine that the Univeristy of Texas (sixty miles south of Belton) would allow the Cru to use their indoor for a pratice.  It would be nice if they did! ;)

I bet that them both being UW-state schools made this easier to accomplish, not to mention the Badgers taking a dump for the final 2/3rd's of their season. 

Ron,

We also had indoor practice facilities back in Cincinnat in the early 1990's at my high school.  The basketball and volleyball teams called it a gym  :)

If your a track team in Ohio, their called hallways
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 06, 2008, 02:37:41 PM
Its ugly in Belton, TX today for W&J.  49-7, MHB leads at Halftime.

          W&J      UMHB 
1st Downs    7        16   
Rushes-Yds 13--3    34-288
Pass Yds    138       90   | 
Passing    8-15-0   3-5-0
Plays      28-135   39-378
Avg/play    4.8      9.7   
Kick ret   7-107     2-39 
Punt ret    0-0      2-45 
Int ret     0-0      0-0   
Fumb ret    0-0      0-0   
Fumb-Lost   2-2      0-0   
Penalties   2-15     5-45
Punts      3-35.3   0-0.0
Possession 13:17    16:43
3rd-Dn Eff  2/6      5/5 
4th-Dn Eff  0/0      0/0 



Congrats to the Presidents on a nice run in the tournament.  They represented the PAC very well, in my opinion.

In about an hour and 15 minutes its going to officially be the "offseason" here on the PAC board. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crualum75 on December 06, 2008, 02:38:34 PM
Not trying to be a jerk, but thought some fans may check here for an update on the score.
Score at the half is
UMHB  49
W&J      7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crualum75 on December 06, 2008, 02:43:17 PM
Sorry didn't see the other post above until after mine was posted. My apologies.  I would like to take this opportunity to say that the Presidents seem to be a class act program with success year after year.  I would also like to compliment the great competitors, coaches, and spectators that were present in 2004 when I played for the Cru in Pennsylvania vs. the Presidents.  Just wanted to share my opinion of the W&J program, coaching staff, and fans.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 19, 2008, 08:09:49 AM
Happy Holidays, All!

See you around the bend (it's on to wrestling & basketball, then baseball for me.)

I'll be snooping around occasionally, though not regularly for a while.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 05, 2009, 03:29:19 PM
Hey, SaintsFan,

How's the pressbox coming?

Just wondering...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 06, 2009, 09:58:01 AM
the last time I was there about a month ago, construction had begun on the seating part of the stadium.  Plumbing was put in two months ago before the ground froze.  I'm not sure about anything construction-wise, I don't even change my own oil.. but I think it will be ready for this season. 

On another note... I did color for D3.com's coverage of the National Semifinals in Alliance... Mount Union's pressbox is pretty impressive.  Not to mention their staff, the TV monitors for replay, and the stats that come to everyone after each drive. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 14, 2009, 11:04:11 PM
Taken from another board.  These two need everyone's prayers tonight. 



Quote from: K-Mack on January 13, 2009, 07:43:27 PM
2 coaches fall through hotel window at convention

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Two assistant coaches apparently wrestling with each other fell through a hotel window Tuesday morning and fell four stories to a concrete sidewalk, leaving one in serious condition.
    The American Football Coaches Association is holding its annual convention at the Opryland Hotel, and hotel security had been called around 4:10 a.m. with a noise complaint when officers found a broken window and Scott Coy and Darren DeMeio outside on the ground below.
    "They wrestled each other too close to the window going through it and down to the ground floor," Nashville police spokeswoman Kris Mumford said. "That's four floors."
    Coy, 29, is 6-foot-2 and 300 pounds from Newcastle, Pa. He was in critical condition and having surgery Tuesday afternoon at Vanderbilt University. DeMeio, 24, is 6-4, 225 pounds and from Clinton, Ohio. Police said he was in fair condition but remained in the hospital as of Tuesday afternoon.
   Coy is co-offensive coordinator at Westminster College in New Wilmington, Pa., and DeMeio is the running backs coach, according to the college's Web site. A telephone message left with the sports information office was not immediately returned Tuesday afternoon.
    Hotel spokeswoman Kim Keelor said the window the men fell through was double-paned with a strong wooden sash in the middle.
    "It's very sad. I definitely want to express our sympathy to their families. It's just a very strange and unfortunate occurrence," she said.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on April 14, 2009, 11:36:55 AM
Kevin Mathews, senior runningback at Washington & Jefferson, passed away Sunday.

Very sad.

Obit in today's Observer-Reporter (http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/StoryObit/Mathews--Kevin-Allsop-04-14)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on June 19, 2009, 02:34:35 PM
ssssshhhhhhh......everybody's sleeping.

11 weeks to kickoff!

Get ready....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 26, 2009, 09:44:40 AM
Bob,

who is the heir apparent for W&J?  I'm assuming they'll still be the preseason pick for conference champs and playoff berth with the way they finished their season by advancing in the playoffs.

I dont think the "media" and coaches will again pick Thomas More in the bottom half of the league.. but stranger things have happened.  I'm really curious to see how the Saints follow up a successful season. 

*side note:    It was announced in May Thomas More is starting a track program at the school... this should only help the Saints get faster. 
side note#2:  The phase two part of the stadium is almost done.  They will have a main grandstand this season complete with locker rooms and coaches offices.  Phase 3 hopefully begins after the last game in 2009... finishing the home seating. 

There is a good size press box at Bank of Kentucky Field... no more working from the tent for opponents radio broadcasts/coaching.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on June 26, 2009, 10:03:51 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 26, 2009, 09:44:40 AM
no more working from the tent for opponents radio broadcasts/coaching.

And I so enjoyed the tent atmosphere....if I'd found a long stick, a bag of marshmallows and some good hot coals, I'd have been set for the weekend...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 29, 2009, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on June 26, 2009, 10:03:51 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 26, 2009, 09:44:40 AM
no more working from the tent for opponents radio broadcasts/coaching.

And I so enjoyed the tent atmosphere....if I'd found a long stick, a bag of marshmallows and some good hot coals, I'd have been set for the weekend...

The roasting was on the field in Quarters 2 and 3!!  ;)

Seriously... two great quarters by TMC won that game.... I think W&J could have an even better team in 2009.  I think Thomas More is traveling up into a Hornets Nest..

Hope the off season has been kind to you,

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on July 24, 2009, 03:38:04 PM
Is anyone out there actually thinking about PAC football. It's interesting to read the information from all the other conferences but where is the early PAC hype. I follow BC so you know I can't come up with much but we do have 80+ freshman which should really add some excitement to fall practice. Number of boys from my home state Fl. Hope the program takes the next step this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 07, 2009, 11:59:29 AM
Where is everyone??

TMC had a great year of recruiting.. after winning the PAC.  They hit the Cincinnati-area very hard.  

Combine that with the talent returning in 2009 and should be another great year.  Have to get by W&J on the road and avenge a loss to Geneva.


Edit:  PAC Media Day has already taken place.  To see where the teams are picked to finish by the media and coaches, go here:

http://www.pacathletics.org/fbpacpoll09.pdf
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 12, 2009, 09:16:50 AM
Hi Saintsfan. First day at BC, 99 freshman, 61 returning.  Doubles the roster of last years squad. Should make for better competion at practice. Hope we found some defensive help.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 12, 2009, 12:07:07 PM
yo Willy... not bad..   Lets see what the numbers are at each school after the kids take the night train during camp!

EDIT:  Saints game program available here...  57 freshman in camp. 

http://thomasmore.edu/athletics/PDFs/09_FootballGuide.pdf
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hasanova on August 12, 2009, 10:58:31 PM
Hey guys.  Good to see football season is right around the corner!  I'm a Guilford alumnus who can always get a personal look at the more "southern" South Region teams (ODAC, USAS, SCAC, etc.).  As I prepare my ballots for the South Region Top Ten, however, I always want to get a better feel for the UAA, PAC, CC and ACFC.

Who are the movers and shakers in your region and who'll be watching the taillights of the leaders?  I see SVC is now in the PAC, but I'm guessing they're not yet eligible for the title.  Are Thomas More and W&J still the teams to beat in the PAC?  Is Wesley still a threat to make Salem?  Are the Mules in line for a 9-1 or 10-0 season in the CC?  Thanks for your thoughts.

Let's get the season started!  Intracity, but interconference, rivals Guilford and Greensboro in the 13th Annual "Souper" Bowl, September 5 at 1 pm.   Can't wait!   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 13, 2009, 11:25:26 AM
hasanova,

I can only speak for Thomas More... but they have 17 starters returning from the 2008 PAC Championship team.  The Saints got some very good recruits in 2009.  110 players in camp.  They open up week 1 at John Carroll University in Cleveland and then start the PAC season.  Their big tests will be AT John Carroll, AT W&J and AT Mount St Joseph (Bridge Bowl). 

I believe W&J and Thomas More are co-favorites for the PAC in 2009.  The Championship game was played at Thomas More in 2008 and should be between the two schools again in 2009 at W&J. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hasanova on August 13, 2009, 03:41:43 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on August 13, 2009, 11:25:26 AM
hasanova,

I can only speak for Thomas More... but they have 17 starters returning from the 2008 PAC Championship team.  The Saints got some very good recruits in 2009.  110 players in camp.  They open up week 1 at John Carroll University in Cleveland and then start the PAC season.  Their big tests will be AT John Carroll, AT W&J and AT Mount St Joseph (Bridge Bowl). 

I believe W&J and Thomas More are co-favorites for the PAC in 2009.  The Championship game was played at Thomas More in 2008 and should be between the two schools again in 2009 at W&J. 
Thanks, SaintsFan.  Your evaluation matches what I surmise in the PAC.  I sent you a longer response via PM.  The JCU game should be a good one to start the season - I know they had some very enthusiastic hoops fans when Guilford played there in the 3rd round of the NCAA's!  Thanks again. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on August 16, 2009, 09:22:13 AM
SVC had 75 upperclassmen & 65 newcomers report, fyi.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hasanova on August 16, 2009, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: Outsider14 on August 16, 2009, 09:22:13 AM
SVC had 75 upperclassmen & 65 newcomers report, fyi.
Thanks for the update, Outsider14.  Any prediction for SVC's record this season?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 21, 2009, 09:29:28 AM
Bethany had a scrimmage yesterday with Marietta and the best report is that there were no injuries. BC working with the lower end of the OAC to prepare for one of the top teams Otterbein opening day.

My son said several freshman played well and could get into playing time early in the season.

BC had no scrimmage last season so it was great to get in some playing time prior to the opener.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: beenhit2hard on August 28, 2009, 10:31:54 AM
How did W&J do with MUC,,any thoughts
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on August 28, 2009, 01:07:08 PM
Talked with a buddy that was there, and he said MUC defense was the best unit on the field. Intercepted 4 balls and really limited W & J offense.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on August 31, 2009, 03:15:56 PM
PAC POSTERS,

It's good to be back and knowing football is finally upon us!

I was not shocked to see that Thiel was picked to finish towards the bottom of the conference. Media, SID, and Coach's had them nailed to the bottom. Sounds as if it will be a tough year for the Tomcats. I am excited to see if TMU can hold of WJ and the rest of the PAC for back to back PAC titles.

Bob, when is the last time a PAC team won back to back titles that wasnt named Washington & Jefferson?

I am sure you have that stat in your office somewhere!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 01, 2009, 02:48:42 PM
CC...I think the PAC should really have some very competitive games this season. I think Thiel, Westminster, Waynesburg, Grove City, Genena and even Bethany will all be fairly even with who is at home often being the difference. TMC and W & J will both have shots at the playoffs baring any upsets.

TMC will open with a tough match at John Carroll and a loss would mean their only shot at the playoffs would be a win at W & J. W & J has the easier schedule for a 9-1, 10-0 season and a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 01, 2009, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: beenhit2hard on August 28, 2009, 10:31:54 AM
How did W&J do with MUC,,any thoughts

B2H ---

Not much of W&J presence here on the boards.  Their radio guy, Bob Gregg, is usually around... but its been very quiet ever since they busted that DB's coach (before Sirriani's time there) posting on the boards.  He wasn't the first and won't be the last Coach to get caught on here.

Right Pat?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 01, 2009, 03:55:22 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 01, 2009, 02:48:42 PM
TMC will open with a tough match at John Carroll and a loss would mean their only shot at the playoffs would be a win at W & J. W & J has the easier schedule for a 9-1, 10-0 season and a playoff spot.

Somebody bought the Kickoff !!  


I think Thomas More will be fine in Cleveland on Saturday.  We have the skill guys back from last year.... + a very good freshman RB from Northeast Ohio, whom people will be talking about before seasons end to go along with Stellman, Collier, Owens, and Doucette.  To be honest, this is a really deep team at the RB/WR positions.  Lots of athleticism.

The defense will be even better than last year's unit.  Throw out the week 1 loss last year.  The offense put the defense in some bad spots with a short field.  They were adjusting to the brand new attack installed two weeks previous, when the Coaching staff saw who the freshman were that showed up for camp.  

One year later and there won't be hiccups like that first game.  Well, there will be first game hiccups --- as with all teams.  It will be interesting to see what happens if Thomas More starts out fast on Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 01, 2009, 04:17:12 PM
Heck yea I bought the Kickoff. How else would I know anything about D3 football in Naples, Florida. I think TMC will handle JCU but that's a tight game for the first week when you need them all.

I look for BC to stay closer to Otterbein than 30.5 only because we can score points and the D can't be worse. I'd just like to see BC get to 5-5 in my son last season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 02, 2009, 08:37:13 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 01, 2009, 03:51:52 PM
Their radio guy, Bob Gregg, is usually around...

I'm around, reading mostly through the summer.  Baseball (the game God himself invented) is wrapping up for us.  Football kicks off Friday night, then the D-III'ers suit it up Saturday.

Still trying to recover from the shock that the "Tent Experience" will have left town before I make a return visit to Thomas More!  I'm really gonna miss it....lol

I'll be here!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 02, 2009, 08:45:14 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on August 31, 2009, 03:15:56 PM
Bob, when is the last time a PAC team won back to back titles that wasnt named Washington & Jefferson?


Other than Washington & Jefferson....

1997-1998  Grove City won the '97 title outright, then shared the '98 crown with W&J and Waynesburg.

The last back-to-back outright titles were won by Carnegie-Mellon (actually back-to-back-to-back) 1977-1978-1979.

Bethany (1965-1966) is the last, and only, current member of the PAC not named Washington & Jefferson to win back-to-back PAC Football championships.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2009, 09:06:01 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 02, 2009, 08:37:13 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 01, 2009, 03:51:52 PM
Their radio guy, Bob Gregg, is usually around...

I'm around, reading mostly through the summer.  Baseball (the game God himself invented) is wrapping up for us.  Football kicks off Friday night, then the D-III'ers suit it up Saturday.

Still trying to recover from the shock that the "Tent Experience" will have left town before I make a return visit to Thomas More!  I'm really gonna miss it....lol

I'll be here!

baseball wrapped up in Cincinnati around the all star break.  Sheesh... we were worse than the Pirates during the 2nd half of the year!

The week following the W&J visit to Cincy, the Bridge Bowl was played in a driving rainstorm...  can't imagine what it was like in the tent on that day.  We didn't even stay as MSJ never crossed the Thomas More 40 yard line. 

Bob, if you like watching great athletes, you're gonna get a kick out of the TMC team this year.  There's a kid from Akron (Freshman RB) who can run it... he was All Ohio as a senior, in addition to the usual suspects of Collier and Stellman... Kendall Owens and Doucette.  The only question on the team is OL, and I think they got that figured out. 

I really believe W&J/TMC is gonna be better than last year... you gotta know Sirrianni is going to find a QB out of the 10 on the roster.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2009, 09:11:56 AM
Quote from: South Willy on September 01, 2009, 04:17:12 PM
Heck yea I bought the Kickoff. How else would I know anything about D3 football in Naples, Florida. I think TMC will handle JCU but that's a tight game for the first week when you need them all.

I look for BC to stay closer to Otterbein than 30.5 only because we can score points and the D can't be worse. I'd just like to see BC get to 5-5 in my son last season.


I'm rooting for this as well, Willy.  He's put up with injuries and losing while being almost 1200 miles (1169 to be exact) away from home... stuck in West Virginia! 

Except when they play Thomas More.. are you coming to that game?  Its in Kentucky this year, 3 miles east of the Airport... on October 3rd.  Its also Thomas More's Homecoming... and my 10 year mark of not playing football.  I don't know if they are doing anything for our team (we were the first to play in Thomas More Stadium--- on campus), but you are more than welcome to join us.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 02, 2009, 09:38:08 AM
SaintsFAN,

I appreciate the invitation but I'm booked for four homegames this season and that's about all the schedule can allow. Hope we give you guys a decent game and I'm sure Matt will get at least one TD. He always seems to against TMC. Good luck saturday at JCU.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 02, 2009, 09:43:32 AM
FAN & Bob,

I grew up near Bethany and was friends with the college presidents son. We were the sideline ball guys for those championship years. Bethany played very competitive football into the early 70s while I roamed the campus but the program has never returned to that level.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 02, 2009, 10:37:35 AM
Bob,

Thanks for the insight I knew you had it attainable somewhere!

Saintsfan,

Who is the RB from Akron? I live outside of Cleveland and work in Akron, Ohio. I am interested in hearing how this Northeastern Ohio back got away from Baldwin Wallace, John Carroll, Malone, Walsh, and even Mount Union??? It is impressive to snag a northeastern Ohio guy from a school in Cincinnatti. Which by the way has tremendous high school talent with St. X, Lasalle, Elder, Moeller, and Purcell. How are TMC's facilities?

SouthWilly,

I am not expecting much from my beloved tomcats this year. I hope to be pleasently surprised and support them completely. I think they still lack talent across both sides of the ball. It seems to me the athletes that were there in the years past arent't being attracted to Thiel anymore.

Sounds as if TMC could be the team to beat with who they are bringing back this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 02, 2009, 10:54:36 AM
CC,

I'm the same with the Bison. 3-7 last year but with 2 losses in the last minute and 1 in OT to the Tomcats. Could have been a .500 season last year but it seems like we are always projecting but not completing on the field. Better recruiting class this year and 3-4 freshman will see playing time early. Offense is back so if the defense can improve at all we should be competitve.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2009, 10:56:47 AM
The facilities are going to be brand new... last year the turf was installed and this year the seating areas should be done.  going to have offices and lockerrooms underneath it when its all said and done... its pretty impressive.  Bank of Kentucky donated $1M for naming rights to it.  There is also a track around the field and Thomas More has started a track&field program, which will help get faster athletes on campus --- not that the 2008 team wasn't fast, as Willy can probably attest.  

Facilities have helped recruiting tremendously... along with winning the PAC in 2008.  You'll see on the roster alot of kids from the schools everyone has heard of... Colerain, St. Xavier, Moeller, Elder...

http://thomasmore.edu/athletics/Football/roster.cfm

the RB's name is Laymon Carter
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: skunks_sidekick on September 02, 2009, 10:58:10 AM
I know SAINTS his high on his TM team, but I was impressed with W & J during their scrimmage against Mount for the following reasons.

First off, they were bigger, meaner, and much better on defense than previous years.  Now some of this was due to Mount's offensive learning curve, but I really believe W & J will be much better on D this year than previous years.  

I think the QB that played as the "starter" in the scrimmage was above average.  Mind you, if it was a real game he probably would have ended up seeing stars with the pressure he was getting from Mount's ends, but he threw a decent ball, and was able to stand in there against the pressure.  I did not see much of a running game, but that is no surprise from a W & J team, right?

Just my two cents.........
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 02, 2009, 04:39:38 PM
Saints fan,

Makes sense as to why TMC is able to recruit very well. With facilities as you describe that will be put in place they will be top of the line. I am not too sure about how many D3 teams are in Kentucky & Cincinnatti area? I feel most are D1 with St X and UC. But if a player is not a D1 player where do they go? Franklin & Marshall is over in Indiana. There are quite a few D2 schools outside of Columbus, but D2 is the red headed stepchild...jk I feel TMC is in a perfect area not heavily dominated with D3 colleges. When you have the facilities that are being implemented it is only going to help recruit a player to your institution. Carter was from Archibishop Hoban is a very good football school Div 2 in Ohio. It's the same school that produced the Sutton Brother's. The older Sutton had a very successful career at Wooster. Tyrell the younger brother was the start at Northwestern for 4 years and from what I hear will be earning a roster spot with the Packers.

South Willy,
I was impressed with Bethany's facilities when I played there, but I felt it the field lagged comparable to other PAC teams. Have they upgraded the field? I do feel the Bison's will out play the Tomcat's this year and I was at the Thiel vs Bethany game last year. Couldnt beleive it! Question is: Do you feel the Bison's will be well balanced on offense this year? I feel they need to get the ball to their playmaker in Cruse.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 03, 2009, 10:18:36 AM
CC...Bethany played on a new turf field last season and completely rebuilt thier locker rooms this summer so the facilities are up to date. The offense has very good players at all skill positions and this group has reset about every offensive record at Bethany the past two yrs. My son, Cruse, would just like to play a full season haveing never made more than 8 games.

BC story is their 232 ranked defense. All 11 positions were up for grabs at camp and several freshman from BC's largest recruiting class may be starters. They expect to be better but very young. Opening day Otterbein will be an extreme challenge for the defense.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Black n Gold on September 03, 2009, 10:44:45 AM
Whats Waynesburg bring to the table this year?

Off topic........but what ever hapened to Heller, did he wind up finding a team for 2009?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 03, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
Having heard the constructive banter back and forth now for 3 years, I feel that at this time, it is necessary to jump in and allow everyone to hear what is going to happen in the PAC this year.

Here goes, the PAC may only have 1 playoff team this year. W&J wil be down this year, and TMC hasn't been given the due respect that they should be given in terms of a national outlook. There will be no losses for TMC this year. 0. Playing devil's advocate with myself, the only chance at a loss is John Carroll. Why? I don't have an answer for that either. TMC should beat JC by 20 and return the favor from last year. JC has no experience past the LBs on defense and they have been plagued with communication errors in the secondary in hopes of being prepared for a top 20 offense in the country in the way of TMC.
If healthy, TMC will run through the PAC this year with no problem. They are too loaded. Hilvert has done a fantastic job at recruiting on the Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky front.

Saints Fan will be the first to tell you that TMC has no holes in their offensive skill positions, and their defense is top 20 in the country as well.

I strongly predict that TMC will reach at least, the Elite 8 this year, playing on 12-5-09 at noon against someone.

Westminster has a chance to make noise and lay a foundation for next year where they should be formidable enough to play with a TMC team that has an off day and a questionable quarterback in 2010.


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 03, 2009, 02:59:53 PM
I meant Waynesburg making noise for next year. Sorry :-\
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: John McGraw on September 04, 2009, 06:18:14 PM
Westminster will need to replace Franz and McKolosky next year, two four-year starters at quarterback and tailback. I don't think they'll be battling with TMC and W&J at the top of the conference.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 05, 2009, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on September 02, 2009, 10:58:10 AM
I know SAINTS his high on his TM team, but I was impressed with W & J during their scrimmage against Mount for the following reasons.

First off, they were bigger, meaner, and much better on defense than previous years.  Now some of this was due to Mount's offensive learning curve, but I really believe W & J will be much better on D this year than previous years.  

I think the QB that played as the "starter" in the scrimmage was above average.  Mind you, if it was a real game he probably would have ended up seeing stars with the pressure he was getting from Mount's ends, but he threw a decent ball, and was able to stand in there against the pressure.  I did not see much of a running game, but that is no surprise from a W & J team, right?

Just my two cents.........

Don't know the gamestory, SS... but TMC won a tough road game today in Cleveland.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SCOTSman on September 05, 2009, 06:39:21 PM
The Waynesburg Offense can definitely make some noise... The running game was fantastic today against Wooster as they defeat the Scots 42-39 in a game that saw 6 lead changes in the fourth quarter alone!  Justin Falcon and Billy Becker both looked like great tailbacks producing impressive run, after impressive run.  Wide out Ray Hightower also looks like he has alot of talent producing 8 catches for 74 yards.    
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 05, 2009, 09:09:00 PM
Waynesburg has always been able to run the ball.... when a defense prepares for a game against them, stopping the run is THE KEY....  to beating them.

Sounds like a helluva game.

Thomas More gets them at home in two weeks.  Should be fun to watch
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: skunks_sidekick on September 06, 2009, 12:45:56 AM
SF?  I guess we will know what today means in a few weeks when we see how both TM, and JCU plays in the next few games. 

But....a win is a win is a win. 

And yah........Mount is probably that good. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 06, 2009, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 03, 2009, 02:58:56 PM

Westminster has a chance to make noise and lay a foundation for next year where they should be formidable enough to play with a TMC team that has an off day and a questionable quarterback in 2010.


in 2010-- TMC will have Zerhusen still at QB --- who started in 2007 as a true freshman. 

Skunks...

Mount is Mount... I expect to be doing color in Alliance for the National Semifinals for D3.com come December.

Have a safe trip back to Ohio.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 07, 2009, 09:13:25 AM
SaintsFAN...Congrats on the win. Just got back south from Bethany and had great weekend. The Bison played there hearts out through three quarters, 7-7, but the much bigger O-line of Otterbein just pushed us around in the 4th plus our qb threw 2 picks trying to comeback.  BC had 4-6 freshman playing both sides of the ball and they performed well.

Either our Defense has improved tremendously or Otterbein is not the playoff team of a year ago. Rafferty was rusty most of the day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 08, 2009, 02:49:09 PM
Nice, willy...

What I suspect happened is OTT isn't the same as they were a year ago AND Bethany has some athletes on defense, finally.

Sounds like things are on the up and up, maybe?  At any rate... OTT was picked 2nd in the OAC.... which won't happen (Ohio Northern will finish 2nd), but they are highly thought of. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Black n Gold on September 10, 2009, 09:33:21 AM
Was the Waynesburg win a shock.....or are they projected to be pretty good this year? I will say they have a very good O line, those boys are huge and man-handled Woo. Congrats and good luck to all teams in the PAC this year!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2009, 05:06:10 PM
Quote from: Black n Gold on September 10, 2009, 09:33:21 AM
Was...Waynesburg ....projected.....?

September 19 AT Thomas More
November 14 AT Washington & Jefferson

The only projections that will matter....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2009, 08:15:52 PM
Agreed, Bob.  Those are the best two teams on their schedule, well any PAC teams schedule, that is.

I'm tryin to talk Pat into sending a broadcast team to PA for the game, if both teams keep winning..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2009, 08:56:17 PM
SaintsFan, there'll be a broadcast team in Pennsylvania for the Thomas More at W&J game.  

Far be it from me to tell Pat what to do, but I think the D-III fans would be better served by sending a crew to a game NOT covered that day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2009, 09:16:34 PM
Provided they are both still undefeated, I think the confernce as a whole would benefit from some exposure for the potential game.. That's why I want a D3.com crew there. 

There are 2 other broadcast teams for BW/MUC on October 3rd, but we are still doing the game because its a big game. 

TMC at W&6 would qualify as a big game in 2009 as well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2009, 01:30:36 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 10, 2009, 08:56:17 PM
Far be it from me to tell Pat what to do, but I think the D-III fans would be better served by sending a crew to a game NOT covered that day.

Bob, those games are few and far between these days.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2009, 01:31:36 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2009, 09:16:34 PM
Provided they are both still undefeated, I think the confernce as a whole would benefit from some exposure for the potential game.. That's why I want a D3.com crew there. 

There are 2 other broadcast teams for BW/MUC on October 3rd, but we are still doing the game because its a big game. 

TMC at W&6 would qualify as a big game in 2009 as well.

Not disputing that, SF, just wondering.  With a Thomas More broadcast (web too), a W&J collegiate broadcast (web too) and a WJPA commercial station broadcast (web too), how does adding a D3football.com webcast increase exposure for the game?

You can talk about bias, or slant, or homers and whatnot, but a FOURTH broadcast/webcast does NOT increase the exposure for the game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2009, 01:38:42 PM
Thomas More doesn't have web broadcasts... or any kind of broadcast unless the local cable channel in Kentucky is doing the home games... and those are few and far in between. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2009, 02:13:47 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2009, 01:31:36 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 10, 2009, 09:16:34 PM
Provided they are both still undefeated, I think the confernce as a whole would benefit from some exposure for the potential game.. That's why I want a D3.com crew there. 

There are 2 other broadcast teams for BW/MUC on October 3rd, but we are still doing the game because its a big game. 

TMC at W&6 would qualify as a big game in 2009 as well.

Not disputing that, SF, just wondering.  With a Thomas More broadcast (web too), a W&J collegiate broadcast (web too) and a WJPA commercial station broadcast (web too), how does adding a D3football.com webcast increase exposure for the game?

You can talk about bias, or slant, or homers and whatnot, but a FOURTH broadcast/webcast does NOT increase the exposure for the game.

Bob, our stats actually show otherwise. There's an audience that will listen to our game broadcasts even when the local schools and stations are covering the games. You may be surprised, but we've put some thought into these things over the years.

Now, that doesn't mean we're going to do this game (in fact, this conversation was the first I'd really thought about it), but your assertions are off-base.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2009, 02:27:20 PM
Pat, that may well be true.  But it doesn't necessarily mean that more total people are exposed to the game, that's all.

A John Q. Citizen from Texas who, for whatever reason, is interested in the TMC/W&J game may well click on the d3.com feed instead of the TMC or W&J feed because it is a "neutral" broadcast.  If that d3.com cast wasn't available, that same JQC from Texas would simply choose one or the other of those being offered.  Doesn't add to the exposure, just the choices by which JCP can be exposed!

No big deal one way or the other.  Maybe see you in your Halloween costume!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2009, 03:33:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2009, 02:27:20 PM
Pat, that may well be true.  But it doesn't necessarily mean that more total people are exposed to the game, that's all.

A John Q. Citizen from Texas who, for whatever reason, is interested in the TMC/W&J game may well click on the d3.com feed instead of the TMC or W&J feed because it is a "neutral" broadcast.  If that d3.com cast wasn't available, that same JQC from Texas would simply choose one or the other of those being offered.  Doesn't add to the exposure, just the choices by which JCP can be exposed!

No big deal one way or the other.  Maybe see you in your Halloween costume!

Except that a game we're broadcasting is one we're going to promote more than one we aren't broadcasting. That raises the total audience level. Otherwise, W&J/TMC is still a great game, but it's one of several that weekend: Salisbury/Wesley, Franklin/Rose-Hulman, Whitewater/Stevens Point ...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
Come on up.  We don't have seats for everybody there now.  We can add a few more standees, or even set up a table in the stands!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2009, 05:22:11 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 11, 2009, 02:13:47 PM
Now, that doesn't mean we're going to do this game (in fact, this conversation was the first I'd really thought about it), but your assertions are off-base.

I mentioned it because I have time to talk you into this game, Pat.  That is, if both teams keep winning.

You CAN'T choose Franklin/RHIT over this one... right?  The others I can see...  plus its cheaper for you to fly into Pittsburgh than it is Indianapolis ;)


I may lobby you on the weekend of October 3rd..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 12, 2009, 10:30:00 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2009, 03:52:01 PM
Come on up.  We don't have seats for everybody there now.  We can add a few more standees, or even set up a table in the stands!

I remember. Been there before, remember?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 14, 2009, 03:44:52 PM
Pat,

"Except that a game we're broadcasting is one we're going to promote more than one we aren't broadcasting. That raises the total audience level. Otherwise, W&J/TMC is still a great game, but it's one of several that weekend: Salisbury/Wesley, Franklin/Rose-Hulman, Whitewater/Stevens Point ..."

You believe this could very well be a great game but my take of your comments are the following: WJ/TMC is not a game D3football believes they can promote to raise the audience levels to the extent of the aforementioned games above. Hence, d3football will not be broadcasting the WJ/TMC game.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 15, 2009, 04:47:20 PM
SaintsFAN...

You're tied with me in the OAC Pick'ems You should be ashamed. Can TMC handle Waynesburg's seeming potent offense this week. Might be a good game?

Bethany's defense looked OK against Ottenbein but this past Saturday they were terrible again. Fortunately the offense came back to life. KCU had not scored a point in 2 NAIA games and got 33 off us. As usual, ran it all over the field. Grove City offense will be a handful Sat. evening

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 16, 2009, 03:09:02 PM
Thomas More 45
Waynesburg 24

Should be a fun game to watch ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2009, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 16, 2009, 03:09:02 PM
Thomas More 45
Waynesburg 24

Should be a fun game to watch ;D

I think its going to be a closer game than that  ;)   Waynesburg has a QB (Dawson) has been really efficient through the first two games.  They are a test for sure and they have Thomas More's COMPLETE attention... I can assure you that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2009, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 16, 2009, 03:09:02 PM
Thomas More 45
Waynesburg 24

Should be a fun game to watch ;D

Not with that score if you're a Waynesburg fan...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2009, 02:45:53 PM
Waynesburg 9
Thomas More 37. 2nd Quarter
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 20, 2009, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2009, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 16, 2009, 03:09:02 PM
Thomas More 45
Waynesburg 24

Should be a fun game to watch ;D

Not with that score if you're a Waynesburg fan...

Okay, so it was 47-24, I anticipated that TM D to get a safety? ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfreak on September 21, 2009, 09:56:06 AM
waynesburg needes a running game...anyone agree? they have three backs now but none of them seem to be a game breaker
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2009, 10:08:38 AM
Welcome to the message boards, footballfreak!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfreak on September 21, 2009, 10:12:04 AM
thanks! big d3 fan always follow the board, figured its time to join!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2009, 10:13:29 AM
Quote from: footballfreak on September 21, 2009, 09:56:06 AM
waynesburg needes a running game...anyone agree? they have three backs now but none of them seem to be a game breaker

I'm going to be as nice as possible with this....  the Waynesburg offense didn't get more than 5 first downs through three quarters.  There was no running game, there was a QB who didn't deliver accurately (when he did, receivers dropped balls) and the running attack wasn't much better.  

I was very surprised the only time Waynesburg threatened to score was when TMC put the ball on the ground inside their own 15.  After seeing the scores coming into this week from Waynesburg (beating Wooster), I was expecting ALOT more.  

I would venture to say Waynesburg got 3/4ths of their yards by leaving the 1st team offense in against Thomas More's 3rd team defense (who played the entire 4th quarter).  sure hope nobody gets hurt offensively for them, because Shepas looks like he's counting on them not needing anyone else.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfreak on September 21, 2009, 10:21:18 AM
totally agree with you saintsfan! im not sure what waynesburg's trying to do. the qb has been throwing 40 - 45 times a game. thats not going to work against teams like thomas more and w&j. what happend to waynesburg's 100+ rushing yds a game? Also, going to be as nice as possible as well, scott cree is a good returner but as a defensive back? might need a replacement for him. I am a W&J fan but love d3 football and follow every game that goes on in the PAC and by the looks of it, its coming down as a rematch from last yr wouldnt you guys say?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 21, 2009, 11:01:26 AM
SaintsFan...After what I witnessed Saturday night, TMC may get 100 on Bethany in two weeks. Defense was terrible and QB threw three picks near the end zone. I thought we had an opportunity to improve this season but I think we are weaker overall than the past three seasons.

Great setting for BC's first ever night game and we had a good crowd but the Bison were out of it by halftime. Grove City QB was the biggest difference as he is very difficult to pressure and is accurate on the run.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2009, 02:20:19 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 21, 2009, 11:01:26 AM
SaintsFan...After what I witnessed Saturday night, TMC may get 100 on Bethany in two weeks. Defense was terrible and QB threw three picks near the end zone. I thought we had an opportunity to improve this season but I think we are weaker overall than the past three seasons.

Great setting for BC's first ever night game and we had a good crowd but the Bison were out of it by halftime. Grove City QB was the biggest difference as he is very difficult to pressure and is accurate on the run.

ah, come on now.... 100 won't happen... IF it is a blowout, Coach Hilvert won't leave the starters in much for the 2nd half... and thats an IF..  Still have to play the games.  

I do think its going to come down to W&J and Thomas More again this year... and from what I saw on Saturday, Thomas More has a better core of athletes out there making plays than last year's team.  One punt return by Owens was called back... and he had another long return to set up a score.  Like last year, teams need to be ready to defend the Saints from the moment they put their kicking units on the field.  Also, the WR's went up for passes and made some great plays.  Its nice to see WR's with ball skills to go along with the RB's on the roster...  


That said... I think defense is the strength of this team... especially the LB's.  To only give up 7 points to what is turning out to be a good JCU team (they are under the radar) is going to look good here in a few weeks when JCU gets deeper into its OAC Schedule.

The starting defense has given up 14 points in two weeks (7 Quarters of play)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 25, 2009, 10:21:11 AM
Thomas More 66
Westminster 17

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2009, 02:41:30 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 25, 2009, 10:21:11 AM
Thomas More 66
Westminster 17



I don't know.... long road trip and alot of distractions on the road.  Maybe a little let down from winning their first PAC game so convincingly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 26, 2009, 03:42:31 PM
Thomas More 27
Westminster 0

Half
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 26, 2009, 06:57:37 PM
34-0 after 3 quarters today then the 3rd team got more playing time.  For the 2nd straight week, they gave up 2 2TDs in the 4th Quarter.  I like how Hilvert is getting guys playing time and developing depth.  You never know when we will need one of these guys.  Zerhusen is being groomed for next year.. The score may not indicate what TMC has done to Waynesburg or Westminster the past two weekends but the Saints are developing the young guys and getting wins while staying healthy.  Stellman is very efficient in 2009 and has improved his accuracy.  He also has a better core of WRs to throw to and they are making plays while the other team stacks the box to stop the run.  Thomas More is going to be a threat in November, I think.  Along with W&J.. I hope we get both teams into the dance again.

Bethany comes to KY for Homecoming this Saturday.  Should be a fun one.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 28, 2009, 05:06:03 PM
Tmore seems like the team beat. Even though WJ is rolling up the numbers on teams I have to give it to Tmore again in 09. What I can't comprehend is, Why isn't Tmore ranked? After winning the conference last year, bring back the core of its team again in 09. Defeating a talented JCU team that has only one blemish on its record. Where's the love? WJ the symbol of consistency is sitting cozy in the top 10.

Where's the love for the Saints?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2009, 05:07:02 PM
Thomas More is ranked.

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2009/week-4
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on September 29, 2009, 11:20:14 AM
Pat,

Thanks for the updated top 25 I was looking at Monday afternoon's list on the front page. Must not have been updated. Good to see the Saints get on the top 25 leaderboard! More love for the PAC!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 29, 2009, 02:48:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2009, 05:07:02 PM
Thomas More is ranked.

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2009/week-4

I like having the Saints under the radar.  Last year after they made the top 25 after beating W&J, the Saints lost to Geneva.  Here's to actually staying in the rankings this year...



willy?  you haven't been around this week.  Curious to see what you are thinking about the game on Saturday.  Its Homecoming at Thomas More so there will be some potential distractions for the players.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 29, 2009, 03:32:42 PM
Saints Fan, with all due respect, it's going to take a lot more than distractions to beat this team.

Thomas More 44
Bethany 10


31-3 after Q3....

The defense is unreal...
The RB's are the best in the league...
The WR's are top 20 in the country...

As long as Stellman is healthy, they are in good shape.
No offense to Zerhusen, but there is a big drop off between him and Stellman.

If TMC loses to anyone but W&J this year, it's because they beat themselves like they did in the Geneva game last year.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 29, 2009, 03:37:23 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 29, 2009, 03:32:42 PM
Saints Fan, with all due respect, it's going to take a lot more than distractions to beat this team.

Thomas More 44
Bethany 10


31-3 after Q3....

The defense is unreal...
The RB's are the best in the league...
The WR's are top 20 in the country...

As long as Stellman is healthy, they are in good shape.
No offense to Zerhusen, but there is a big drop off between him and Stellman.

If TMC loses to anyone but W&J this year, it's because they beat themselves like they did in the Geneva game last year.






Agree with you, on all that you said BUT these are 18-22 year old kids who have school work and girls to deal with throughout the week.  A Geneva game can always happen.  

As long as they beat W&J and MSJ, they should be good to go.  

EDIT:  Look for Thomas More to get someone like Highlands HS's QB for next year.  Lefty... runs a 4.4 but is 5'11"... throws alot of deep passes.  broke his arm against St Xavier (OH) this past Friday night and should scare off the recruiters with that and his size.    They also have a couple freshman on the roster this year to look at... and push Zerhusen next year.   Zerhusen needs to get faster this off season to keep the offense rolling.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on September 30, 2009, 11:03:29 AM
SaintsFAN...Have been laying low. Bison appear to be crumbling internally in the early season and played a horrible game at home against Grove City. I don't expect even a good game for the 1st qtr at TMC.

My son has been demoted this week to #3 WR and you'll see two freshman wideouts. Matt was "doing everything right but not playing up to his potential".  Love those coach's explinations.

Have a great homingcoming!! 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 30, 2009, 12:58:20 PM
Quote from: South Willy on September 30, 2009, 11:03:29 AM
SaintsFAN...Have been laying low. Bison appear to be crumbling internally in the early season and played a horrible game at home against Grove City. I don't expect even a good game for the 1st qtr at TMC.

My son has been demoted this week to #3 WR and you'll see two freshman wideouts. Matt was "doing everything right but not playing up to his potential".  Love those coach's explinations.

Have a great homingcoming!! 


WHAT?!  Thats pretty stupid.  Your son has been a beast the last 3 years.  I know that he's given TMC fits... Sorry to hear that, even if it means TMC will have another edge defensively.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FOUR on October 01, 2009, 01:45:50 AM
Hello PAC fans, new to the board. Looking for some intelligent football conversation which appears to be present here. 

I can speak a little bit to how Grove City is doing so far in 09 and excuse me if I'm a bit long winded, just thinking things through. Now 1-1 (1-3) isn't going to impress many folks.  Losses out of the gate to Dickinson and CMU, 52-47 and 45-40 (and no those aren't basketball or overtime scores) would make one wonder if they could stop anyone or if anyone could stop them. Jumped on Bethany 21-0 before the half and were able to maintain that lead to the end of game for a 35-14 win. So with lots and lots of points scored through the first three games, it was refreshing to see some defense being played last week. Unfortunately it was W&J's defense that almost totally shut down Air GCC after the first scoring drive of the game. -4 yards total rushing and only 1 RB carry makes you wonder if "Mouse" Davis was in the house. Defensively, a 28-10 loss shouldn't normally be considered a good effort, but it was the fewest points allowed by Grove City to W&J since it's last victory in R. J. Bowers' sophomore season (1998) and the fewest W&J has scored in their past 16 regular season games.

I'd chalk 1-3 right now up to youth. Although there are solid upperclass leaders, they started 6 sophomores on defense, 3 sophomores and 1 freshman on offense against W&J and have an handful of underclassmen contributing on both sides. So I think that pre-season 3rd in PAC is still very do-able, but they have to progress and perform. Two more against St. Vincent and Geneva before the next PAC game that counts on 10/17 at Thomas More. Now, you never go into a game saying you can't win but there's a huge challenge, looking forward to see how they handle things over these next three weeks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 01, 2009, 08:04:02 AM
Welcome aboard, FOUR.  Keep us posted on GCC.

Could not believe the total abandonment of the running game by the Wolverines on Saturday night.  ONE RB RUSH, are you kidding?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 01, 2009, 11:56:22 AM
Four,

Welcome aboard and good insight on GCC. havent heard too much from their supporters on here so its good to have you.

South Willy,

Demotion trying to help him reach his full potential I can understand, but I haven't watched the games, tapes, practices, and dont know his game study habits either. There are so many questions that we would have being an outsider, but I feel as if this is a move for BC to get some youth playing time to help replace his production next year. If that is the case I am disturbed by this as he is a beast as Saints Fan mentioned, and one of the upper tier recievers in this conference. Best of luck to them and every other PAC team this weekend. Stay safe and injury free.

Saints fan,

Your squad seems to be rounding into shape nicely. Any expectations for the weekend?? Big crowds, weather, events planned for alumni? Should be a good weekend for Saints fan. Just breaking into the top 25, homecoming, these guys will be jacked up to play this game, and represent their team/fans this weekend.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2009, 12:54:02 PM
I expect a big, big win against Bethany if they aren't playing Matt Cruse at WR.  Thats retarded.  Should be a great day for everyone.

I was going to do a game with Pat Coleman up in Alliance on Saturday night, until something came up that is going to keep me in town (didn't want to leave Pat scrambling at the last second).  As long as everything is taken care of, I'm going to head over to watch the game and participate in the Homecoming Activities.  Its been 10 years since my last season there, and I hear quite a few people are coming.  Including the daughter of a late-teammate. 


I don't think this one ends pretty like the last two have...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 01, 2009, 01:24:41 PM
SaintFAN...I agree with the retarded but I am a homer. Matt will play the #3 WR position so the better TMC stops the run, the more Matt will see the field in passing situations. I'm sure your defense will be able to spot him.

CC...Not sure what is behind the decision but just doesn't make any sense removing 17 catches, 279yds and 4 TDs (last 3 TMC vs BC games) form your offsense.

Everyone have a great weekend.  GO BISON
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2009, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: South Willy on October 01, 2009, 01:24:41 PM
SaintFAN...I agree with the retarded but I am a homer. Matt will play the #3 WR position so the better TMC stops the run, the more Matt will see the field in passing situations. I'm sure your defense will be able to spot him.

CC...Not sure what is behind the decision but just doesn't make any sense removing 17 catches, 279yds and 4 TDs (last 3 TMC vs BC games) form your offsense.

Everyone have a great weekend.  GO BISON

He should see alot of action... the Saints 1st team defense is VERY strong against the run.  They are fast and the 3 LB's really flow well to the ball.  The stats are skewed because no regulars have played a snap in 4th quarter in the past two games. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 01, 2009, 03:11:11 PM
Seaking of skewed stats, you can also point out that the TMC rotation is like no other. The only staple is Stellman and the LB corps.

At anytime, you will see 6 different receivers and 3 different RBs on the field.
At this point, not too many mistakes have been made; I think that they are still looking for the go-to guys. Not bad being 3-0 and still trying to figure out what personnell to leave on the field.

Also, they have a 5 man defensive back rotation.

It has to give headaches to the radio analyst.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2009, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on October 01, 2009, 03:11:11 PM
It has to give headaches to the radio analyst.

no radio analyst currently.... though they are looking at this option for next year ---- web broadcasts.

But I agree with you.  The only thing I would say they could work on is putting the ball on the carpet.  I've only been to one game (Waynesburg) but the ball was on the ground a few times.  Only lost a couple... but one helped put points on the board for Waynesburg. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 01, 2009, 09:35:53 PM
Saints Fan,

Enjoy the festivities this weekend should be good weather right? By the way how is the running back from AKron, Ohio doing this year? Is he seeing the field with all the talent TMC has at RB and WR positions.

Ill be heading to chicago on business this weekend and not able to attend any games this weekend. Go Tomcats!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2009, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 01, 2009, 09:35:53 PM
Saints Fan,

Enjoy the festivities this weekend should be good weather right? By the way how is the running back from AKron, Ohio doing this year? Is he seeing the field with all the talent TMC has at RB and WR positions.

Ill be heading to chicago on business this weekend and not able to attend any games this weekend. Go Tomcats!

he's in the rotation... he's a good fit for the offense... I think we'll have a better idea once the Saints are tested... as far as who will get the ball.... we know that Owens and Collier are legit.... I think you add Luis Perez (FR --RB) and Carter (Akron freshman) and its a lethal backfield. 

Then the rotation at receivers.... with some of these guys lined up there also ---- what you have is an offense that is sickly multiple.  When the light bulb comes on, look out.  As homer said, they are just feeling their way through right now... with an eye on peaking late in the season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 02, 2009, 04:27:17 PM
SaintsFAN...The Bison just completed a workout at TMC. My son says you have some freshmen in the secondary. Might give us a chance to throw the ball around more than planned.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2009, 02:23:08 PM
20-0 2nd quarter with 7 min left.  TMC just had a 90 yard punt return called back for holding.


Bethany has completed a couple passes.. The QB has not had any time to throw the ball.  Its getting ugly.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2009, 02:30:08 PM
Still 20-0.  Bethany has just got their 2nd straight personal foul penalty.. TMC ball at 40 yard line.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2009, 03:37:00 PM
40-6.. 2:25 left in the 3rd..

Subs are coming in on defense
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2009, 04:06:18 PM
40-12 final from Crestview Hills. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 03, 2009, 04:55:03 PM
TMC handled their business as they should of. Enjoy the night festivities!! THis is when it gets fun!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 04, 2009, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2009, 04:06:18 PM
40-12 final from Crestview Hills. 

After watching the tape today from that game, I conclude that there are at least 2 players on that team that could play a higher level of football. TMC has done a hell of a job recruiting. The soph WR and the soph RB are on a different level.

The Frosh LB may be better than the SR LB after all is said and done.
This TMC team is a top 10 program, whatever the polls say-
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2009, 08:01:58 AM
Quote from: South Willy on October 02, 2009, 04:27:17 PM
SaintsFAN...The Bison just completed a workout at TMC. My son says you have some freshmen in the secondary. Might give us a chance to throw the ball around more than planned.



as homer said... they are rotating alot of people except at LB on the defensive side of the ball.  To be honest, I hadn't noticed it until Saturday.  #5 (QB) made a couple plays, but he was running for his life back there.  I don't think there was too big of a chance and I was surprised I didn't see some screens to take advantage of the speed and aggressiveness on defense.  It was evident from warm ups, however, the difference in the kind of players at the schools (except for your son and maybe two others). 

I agree with homer... those two kids have the skill set to play at the next level, if not the size..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 06, 2009, 06:22:08 PM
How about the Tomcatrs knocking off Westminnie with a Last second 46 yard field goal?? RYFP!

Saints fan,

The top 25 last week went 25-0...Impressive, now if NCAA FCS teams could only do that than we wouldnt have this huge debate about a playoff system.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 07, 2009, 08:55:35 AM
The Bison have Thiel & Westminnie at home the next two weeks. We need to win these two games or our program has reverted back to the consecutive 1-9 seasons  prior to the new coaching staff. They have yet to go even 5-5. Hopefully they can get the players to respond and play competitive football the next two weeks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 07, 2009, 04:16:07 PM
Predictions for this week:

Grove City at Geneva

GC 31
Geneva 27

Thiel at Bethany

Thiel 21
Bethany 17

Waynesburg at Westminster

Waynesburg 41
Westminster 13

Thomas More at Saint Vincent

Thomas More 45
St. Vincent 17


The first two games will be great football games!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 09, 2009, 04:12:20 PM
As long as TMC gets out there healthy (and a win of course), I will be happy. 


Probably some more PT for the guys as Hilvert and Co sets a rotation here for the stretch run.  Grove City worries me a bit because the Saints will need to be ready for the final 3 weeks of the season, in a big way. 

*SVC is averaging 56 yards per game on the ground (2 yards per carry)
*SVC is passing for 196 yards per game on 33 attempts per game (45% completion)
*SVC is -7 TO differential in 5 games

*SVC defense is giving up 185 yards per game on the ground and 13 rushing TDs for the season.  218 yards through the air per game for SVC opponents.
*Defense has 15 sacks in 5 games and has a PAC-leading 39 TFL's
*Safety is their leading tackler.

Sounds like SVC gets after it defensively with their front 7... but I'm not sure they've seen the same level of offense that they'll be up against on Saturday.   I look for Stellman to continue having an efficient year and the Saints will establish the run..  The Special Teams (2 KO and 1 PR TDs called back in the last 3 weeks) is ready to have a big game.  This is the type of game we'll find out how focused TMC is... the Bearcats are heavy underdogs at home and TMC knows what lies ahead in the final 3 weeks.  I'm not calling this a trap game, because I think SVC is a couple years away from being where they want to be but sounds like they are a resilient bunch.  They could have folded in a couple of games this year but didn't.  Now I don't know if they scored late TD's against the back ups ... but I feel they are better than last year.  The problem is I think TMC is also better than last year.  Thomas More will not be surprised by any fakes in the kicking game this year.  TMC will continue to be stout against the run and will cause problems for the passing game by getting to the QB, like they did against Waynesburg.  They forced bad throws and sacks against that QB --- who has done fairly well against everyone else on the schedule. 

Starters will be cheering on the subs in the 4th quarter in this one, as Collier and Owens get untracked on the ground  --- 41-7 final. 

I will be in Ada, OH watching Heidelberg (Coach Hallett) vs. Ohio Northern (Coach Paul)... but will be checking in on this one. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 09, 2009, 09:22:02 PM
Good story about TMC on the front page in the What We're Reading section.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 10, 2009, 12:28:32 PM
Thanks Pat.  Good article.  Nice to see the Enquirer pay attention to Thomas More a little bit.  They did quite a bit on MSJ last year despite not having a great year.  Its the Kentucky bias, I guess.  


Where are you this weekend?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FOUR on October 10, 2009, 10:52:33 PM
Homer,  looks like you took a little bit of a beating on your predictions this week, I give you credit for sticking your neck out there!!  Other than St. Vincent, all your home 'dogs won. Congrats to Westminster and Bethany for big wins.

The Geneva game had me worried beforehand. After smacking them at Grove City last year, I felt there's just too much pride there for them to not bounce back with a great effort in front of a rocking homecoming crowd.  GCC jumped up 14-0 early on and I'm thinking OK maybe not. But it was all Geneva after that.  From that point on they did a nice job keeping the Wolverine offense off the field considering the no huddle they run, they did an even better job pressuring the QB and taking away his options downfield. No time for the Wolverines to wallow, up next it's the trip down to Kentucky against the defending champs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 11, 2009, 12:51:30 AM
Thank goodness that there aren't betting lines for PAC football. What a great weekend of games! Westminster game was a classic. Bison get it going, and Geneva show that there is reason that there are two halves of football to be played...TMC / W&J showdown on Halloween will be a fine football game.

Going back to the drawing board... :o
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 12, 2009, 02:54:47 PM
SaintsFAN... had a great weekend at Bethany Homecoming and finally got the offense rolling. Defense still gave up 450+ yds but had 4 takeaways which limited the points.
Matt hauled in 12 catches for 186 and a TD and Thiel's Brent Taylor had 15 catches for 183 and a TD so the track guys both had a busy afternoon. I think biggest factor in the game was BC's early 21-0 lead. It made Thiel go to the air early and often so our weakness in stopping the run was not an issue. Great weather, lots of points, a super homecoming weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 15, 2009, 12:11:14 PM
Where's everybody on the PAC site. Should have some good games this week. I can't see any defense in the BC vs Westminnie so they will try and get 100 points on the scoreboard if weather permits.

SaintsFAN...GC could be a better game than TMC has had lately but I think you will win at home.

Geneva vs Waynesburg should also light up the scoreboard and be a competitve game.

St. Vincent in for a long day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2009, 02:19:12 PM
I believe the weather isn't going to be great in Kentucky this weekend... snow flurries tomorrow.  Not entirely sure what Saturday will bring, but I know the GCC QB has the Saints attention.  They will take away the run game, and try to make the QB less than comfortable standing the pocket.  If he is able to set his feet, the DB's could be in for a long day. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FOUR on October 15, 2009, 10:42:45 PM
Well, maybe the raw weather will help the Wolverines cause this week, maybe it won't. It's hard to gage that type of thing.  GCC is -4 in the turnover department, a better performance here could make a big difference. But one thing they can't do offensively is abandon the running game even if it's tough going. Keep the defense honest. Keep it from turning into a 7 on 7 in pads like it did against W&J because it's a 7 on 7 in name only, more like a 5 or 4 on 7. If the QB cannot set his feet, better keep him in the pocket as he is the team's leading rusher and very savvy on the move.

W&J over StV - only game on the lawn, won't help Bearcats who are still quite a few bricks shy

Gen over Wburg - Will be a tough road win but the Tornado gets it done

Beth over West - Like the home team making it 2 in a row
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2009, 12:33:00 AM
I don't think the GCC QB worries TMC with his scrambling ability as much as he does with his arm.. The strength of the Saints defense is in the front 7..  They will be the fastest and most aggressive defense GCC sees in 2009.  I'd love to hear your thoughts after Saturday.. I will check in, win or lose. 

By no means is TMC looking past this game, Grove City has their full attention.. It will probably be close for 3 quarters.. Unless Thomas More hits on a few big plays early with the RBs and WRs.. The offense is so multiple, they will come..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 17, 2009, 04:31:16 PM
17-7 final in Kentucky..

Stellman left the game early with a sprained ankle.  After Zerhusen got hurt, Freshman QB, Robert Keus played decently.. About what you expect from a Freshman.. The Saints defense really showed up today.  They won this game by totally shutting down the GCC offense.. Hopefully Stellman can get back this week, but the defense is good enough to give him a week off..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2009, 03:46:12 PM
PAC Title Game is two weeks away.. TMC won without Stellman and Owens yesterday.  Zerhusen came in and threw 2 ints and had a fumble before he got hurt.  The Saints need to groom Keus as the backup..
He should start against Thiel this week as Stellman nurses the sprained ankle.. Sit him and Owens this week. 

What happened in the W&J - St Vincent game?  Anyone there?  14-7 until the Presidents recovered a fumble in the endzone with just under 3 minutes to play.  Was weather a factor?  Were they playing bland football on purpose BC of the gametape exchange coming for the TMC game?  Frankly, both teams won this week.. But both were not what anyone expected.  TMC had injuries bite them, and the defense played very well.. I'm really surprised at what happened at St Vincent yesterday though.  Has to be explainable for the #8 team to be in a dog fight with The Bearcats. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FOUR on October 19, 2009, 01:36:07 AM
SaintsFan: Well, it ended up being a beautiful day weather-wise, and also beautiful if you like defense. The speed of Saints defense is very impressive and I guess it depends on what the definition of total shutdown is but however I want to try and paint the picture I think I'll have to mostly agree, especially with third down conversions. GCC struggled there all day, only managed to convert 3 of 15. And most importantly only the 7 points (resulting from some successful trickeration) which won't win you many ball games.

I don't think you'll see the team claiming any type of moral victory but I'm a fan so I will.  ;D I am encouraged with the young Grove City defense, starting 6 sophs and 1 frosh putting up a solid effort that was deserving of some praise. TMC started with great field position all afternoon and spent a lot of time in GCC territory. The Wolverines D didn't break until the bitter end. I think it's accurate to say our defense simply got out-defensed this day.  Quite a contrast to the games early in the season when it was the offenses out-gunning each other.

So now that I've seen both undefeated teams first-hand, I'll be working on my prediction for the big showdown.  Don't know what went down in Latrobe but that result is certainly an attention grabber.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2009, 10:31:57 AM
Quote from: FOUR on October 19, 2009, 01:36:07 AM
SaintsFan: Well, it ended up being a beautiful day weather-wise, and also beautiful if you like defense. The speed of Saints defense is very impressive and I guess it depends on what the definition of total shutdown is but however I want to try and paint the picture I think I'll have to mostly agree, especially with third down conversions. GCC struggled there all day, only managed to convert 3 of 15. And most importantly only the 7 points (resulting from some successful trickeration) which won't win you many ball games.

I don't think you'll see the team claiming any type of moral victory but I'm a fan so I will.  ;D I am encouraged with the young Grove City defense, starting 6 sophs and 1 frosh putting up a solid effort that was deserving of some praise. TMC started with great field position all afternoon and spent a lot of time in GCC territory. The Wolverines D didn't break until the bitter end. I think it's accurate to say our defense simply got out-defensed this day.  Quite a contrast to the games early in the season when it was the offenses out-gunning each other.

So now that I've seen both undefeated teams first-hand, I'll be working on my prediction for the big showdown.  Don't know what went down in Latrobe but that result is certainly an attention grabber.

Too bad you didn't get a true read of TMC's offense with Stellmann and Kendall Owens in the lineup.  Both left the game very early.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the defense does with W&J. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: South Willy on October 19, 2009, 01:31:35 PM
It was a cold lousy day in Bethany who decided not to show up for the first half. Lots of mistakes, some dropped balls and a lousy game plan after really playing well last week. Nice comeback to make it a game late but for BC's offense to only score 6 points in the first half is awful, no consistency at all.

SaintsFAN... Hope you heal up for W & J. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2009, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: South Willy on October 19, 2009, 01:31:35 PM

SaintsFAN... Hope you heal up for W & J. 

Thanks... they'll be fine... either way.  That defense is really fast.  I look forward to Halloween this year... and seeing what the Saints do up there.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 22, 2009, 03:11:17 PM
TMC/W&J will be a showdown. Stellman should be back by then. SaintsFan, I just watched the tape of TMC's last game and W/J last game, and I think that W/J will beat them by 21 points if they don't toss the ball around. All be it, TMC had a 3rd string QB in that last game, he's probably better than #10, their 2nd stringer. Spread-Option offenses are easy to beat if you don't have exceptional athletes in all skill positions. If the QB only throws 3 times against W/J defense, they will stack 9 in the box all day and it will be a horrible game. The O coordinator for TMC needs to take a shot downfield once in awhile, which he really hasn't committed to all year long... If he doesn't that will catch up to them against a good team. You could have had a 360 lb tackle playing wideout in TMC last game...

Defense looked stellar though, just good enough to get by this week as well...

This week, TMC and W/J both win.

TMC by 13
W/J by 31 back to basics...

If Stellman is healthy against W/J:

TMC 27
W/J 21

If Stellman doesn't play agianst W/J:

W/J 21
TMC 6



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2009, 09:31:38 PM
Not sure but in my opinoin, Thomas More without Stellman will at least be able to do as well as St Vincent.. But I agree.. Stellman is not someone they can lose and win their final 3 games and Zerhusen is not the best backup QB.  Kues is.. And needs experience this week against Thiel.. No matter what. 

I disagree slightly with your calls for throwing downfield.  You had earlier raved about the WR and Owens downfield catching the ball.  That lack of vertical threat only happened BC Zerhusen is prone to INTs and then they had a freshman playing his 1st snaps all year with zero practice time to ready himself.. The defense was gonna keep GCC out of the endzone again, they knew that.  Those guys were making great plays on balls thrown downfield by Stellman all year.. They made Stellman look really good.  They will be fine against W&J.. Well not fine, but they'll hold their own.. And hopefully win in the end. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 22, 2009, 11:38:00 PM
Good points. I suppose it was necessary to get conservative upon losing Stellman, but after watching the tape, I would have put 11 in the box against them for the final 2 quarters. I just hope that their already conservative play calling doesn't continue to be so predictable. They have too many weapons for most teams to handle.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2009, 02:13:27 PM
26 hours from now, hopefully, we can talk about THE GAME!

No stumbles, no missteps, no excuses.

Take care of business, then get on with it.

Catch up with you AFTER tomorrow's games!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2009, 05:29:05 PM
Presidents and Saints take care of business....

Big week ahead...

Saints win 28-14 over Thiel with a hobbled Stellman.  Hopefully they are ready to play this week.  Lets see how far they fall in the polls -- not sure how many people know they were playing with the 3rd string QB last week.   The 17-7 win against Grove City last week cost them 3 spots in the D3.com poll.   They earn respect if they beat W&J for the 2nd straight year.  TMC is probably the underdogs... road game and a mad President squad.  Plus W&J has their annual spot in the top 12 of the country.  The key to this game is the health of Stellman and Owens.  

TMC's final opponent basically wrapped up the HCAC Title with a 26-16 road win against Franklin today.  So if the Saints falter on Saturday in Pennsylvania, they'll have another opportunity to impress the selection committee... not sure what W&J's non-conference schedule would do for them... but I would guess that if they were to lose on Saturday, they'd be a very good candidate for a Pool C bid as well.  

I look forward to seeing what the game brings next week.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2009, 08:13:51 PM
I think last week's drop is due far more to Wittenberg and Mississippi College winning games that demanded they be in the poll, rather than Thomas More looking unimpressive.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2009, 09:42:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2009, 08:13:51 PM
I think last week's drop is due far more to Wittenberg and Mississippi College winning games that demanded they be in the poll, rather than Thomas More looking unimpressive.

Thanks for the insight Pat... I've not figured out the movements of the polls (obviously)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2009, 01:27:07 PM
Man this board is quiet as ever ---- I hear there is a big game this weekend in PA.  Watch 'em come out of the woodwork (except Bob -- he's been around) if W&J wins...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 26, 2009, 02:23:06 PM
I'm ALWAYS watchin'
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 27, 2009, 12:02:34 PM
This is not an easy game to call, but I'm going to give it a shot-

If given time, W&J will utilize their best offensive player and the WR will have a big day. If  TMC gets pressure, this will be eliminated. I feel that W&J has the edge on the OLine to give the QB time to throw downfield. Advantage W&J

So now that we know W/J will have the opportunity to put points on the board, will TMC? Stellman will get his, and the offense will move the football on the ground with a combo of short range options. Advantage TMC

Coaching is a dead heat. I think that TMC has the defensive edge while W/J will be more diverse in their offense, IF they can run the ball.

Great football game that comes down to avoiding mistakes between two playoff teams. The extra points and the field goals will make a difference in this one for the first time for both teams.

W/J 21
TMC 20

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2009, 04:20:07 PM
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2009/Collier+answers+call+for+Thomas+More

I will have more to say on Thursday...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 29, 2009, 01:03:30 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2009, 01:27:07 PM
Man this board is quiet as ever ---- I hear there is a big game this weekend in PA.  Watch 'em come out of the woodwork (except Bob -- he's been around) if W&J wins...

I reserve the right to stay in the woodwork  :).  Haven't really had a reason to post/comment until now.

Looking forward to (finally) an opponent worth going to see play W&J this season.   Safe travels to the TMC crowd making the trip!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2009, 01:12:16 AM
I am looking forward to this game.

Having TMC as an undefeated Pool A bid, and more than 500 miles from the southern and eastern teams of "South Region", makes me think that they might be moved into the "North Bracket".

In any case, I am all for having UMHB as the leading Pool C candidate at the table from the South Region.

Mmmmm,  perhaps, I should hope that TMC loses to W&J and MSJ.....

:)  This is a fun time of the year!

Nothing personal, you understand...it's just good D3 football!

Of course, we ASC teams have matched up better against W&J than Wesley.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2009, 03:11:14 PM
Obviously this is a huge match-up in Washington, PA on Saturday.  Both teams will help eachother get ready for the Dance... I do think that both will make it again this year.  More on that in a minute.  

W&J's 4-2-5 defense has playmakers all over it.  They have DB's leading the team in tackles... normally, this would be cause for alarm... but thats the strength of that defense ---speed and just reacting.  The Presidents also have a DE who is leading the country in sacks at 11.5... this defense will be tested on Saturday just as they'll test the resolve of Thomas More's offense, just like in last year's game where Sirrianni was quoted as saying you can't really prepare for the spread option attack TMC has... you just have to hope to adjust to it in-game.  TMC has MORE speed this year than they did last year and is deeper.  They will play 5-6 WR's this week (they didn't play #1 because he had a birth in his family last Saturday).  They will also start Collier and Owens at RB and play 3 others with them.  At QB Stellman is 100% for this game and look for the Saints to keep doing what they've been doing with the mix of run/pass.  There may also be a few new things that aren't on tape --- as they haven't been run yet this year.   I feel the Saints will have the Presidents defense thinking more than they are used to and this will open up some big plays like last season.  

Defensively, TMC knows that W&J is good...  The Saints will play very fast to the ball and may be targeted by a misdirection play..  but W&J is not going to go away from what they've been doing... run and throw with efficiency.  TMC is ready... they have improved their defense with a few freshman and sophomores playing at LB and DB (3 to be exact).  These kids are big-time recruits for this level, with 2 of the 3 playing at Cincinnati Elder HS --- they have big game experience playing in front of 20,000.    I think TMC will limit the Presidents running game and rally up on the short passing game.  W&J had 10-12 play drives last year and came away with no points.  That should be the plan again this year for TMC.. Though that WR, Besong... is a veteran and will find holes in the zones.  I expect him to have 10 catches on Saturday... I think W&J will need a couple big plays (they JUST missed on a couple last year in KY) -- and hopefully the Saints defense will have them defended.  

If everyone remembers the 6 point win wasn't really that last year... I know what the scoreboard said, but the TMC offense took over in the 2nd and 3rd quarter.  I don't expect that same level of dominance over a length of time that long... but I do think TMC wins this one 31- 24.  


Now... I don't think this is the end of the world for W&J... they win out, go 9-1 and will be in the playoffs.... probably even a better seed than TMC again in 2009.  If TMC loses... they must win their final 2 --- with a win over MSJ, they will be in as well...... though I don't think they could get the #5 seed in the South as 2nd place PAC team.  Make no mistake, this game is about respect and TMC knows the only way to gain it and show EVERYONE that last year wasn't a fluke... is to make a statement on Saturday.  They respect W&J and love the competition with them... and have nothing bad to say about that program... TMC obviously doesn't have the history W&J does --- TMC is trying to write some history of their own though.

Win or lose, I will be here on Saturday night and Sunday... to talk about playoff ramifications.  Heres to a healthy week for all PAC teams.




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2009, 11:48:30 AM
I'll be here.  If you think I'd go home (win or lose) and deal with the huge flong of miscreants begging for an ungodly influx of processed sugar, you're out of your mind....

I'll be here, win or lose, as I have been since d3football.com appeared on the information super highway (thanks, Al Gore).

I'll be here, win or lose, because I learned a long time ago that the sun will still come up over Beau Street hill in the morning regardless of what happens at the foot of South Main Street hill...

I'll be here, SaintsFan.

The question is, will you be in Washington, PA for the game?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 30, 2009, 01:37:50 PM
Exciting discussions in this conference this week due to a big game! I love what I am hearing!We finally brought Burgh Boy back from the Dead. Whether its WJ vs TMC or the Eve of Halloween its all good stuff in my mind.

Saints fan has me believing that TMC can pull off another stunner in Washington, PA just like Thiel did to win the PAC conference title three years ago. TMC is pulling talent from Cincy as Saints fan stated. I checked out their roster and counted 34 players from Cincinnatti based schools. Players from Lasalle, St. X, Moeller, Elder, McNicholas, Northwest, and Roger Bacon play in Division 1 in Ohio. Even the players from Cincinnatti Anderson which moved to D1 last year won a D2 state championship two year ago and was runner up last year in D2. These schools play the best talent across the state, out of state, and in the biggest games. St. X, Elder From Cincy, Glenville & St. Ignatius from Cleveland are constantly in the ESPN top 25 high school nationwide. They tend to go deep in the playoffs and these kids are used to playing in big games. My belief is whether they are Freshmen,sophmores, or higher all of these players are gamers, used to playing in front of 10,000 plus a night, were well coached in HS, played for schools were football is part of the Religion ciriculum, and mentally well prepared for these types of conference championship games.

If Stellman plays the entire game/takes all snaps:
TMORE 31
WJ 20

If Stellman is knocked out/shares snaps
Tmore 21
WJ 34
Turnovers by QB's allow WJ's ball hawking Defense to create turnovers and convert into scores.

Best of luck to every PAC team and stay healthy WJ and Tmore you have to represent this conference either way in the Playoffs!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2009, 02:27:03 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2009, 11:48:30 AM
I'll be here.  If you think I'd go home (win or lose) and deal with the huge flong of miscreants begging for an ungodly influx of processed sugar, you're out of your mind....

I'll be here, win or lose, as I have been since d3football.com appeared on the information super highway (thanks, Al Gore).

I'll be here, win or lose, because I learned a long time ago that the sun will still come up over Beau Street hill in the morning regardless of what happens at the foot of South Main Street hill...

I'll be here, SaintsFan.

The question is, will you be in Washington, PA for the game?

Oh I'm not questioning you, Bob.  You're an original on here ... one who I remember trying to bring some debate onto the board when it was populated by wanna-be gangstas and somehow assistant coaches making predictions while speaking in Ghetto Tongue.  

I WISH I was going to Washington, PA --- as it is I have to help my mom do some moving this weekend.  Since she's divorced from my pops, she doesn't get much help.  I expect a great game --- and look forward to hearing whatever you have to say about it.... because I won't be able to grasp what has transpired through the stats.  I will probably even be listening to you on the radio... maybe you could give SaintsFAN a shoutout?  Then my mom and girlfriend would MAYBE, just maybe think I'm kinda important.

I don't blame you for wanting to avoid the kids terrorizing the neighborhood in the name of candy riches...


CC --- Stellman is as healthy as he has been in the two years following his knee surgery.  He SHOULD take all snaps.. I like that you've done your research... but actually Elder, St. Xavier, Moeller AND Colerain HS have been ranked in various Prep Top-25 polls in the past 3 years.  We are very proud of Hilvert for going out and getting these kids... plus somehow Lymon Carter RB from Akron, who was 1st team all-state last year for Hoban HS.  

With that said ---- I don't think TMC is 10 points better than W&J on the President's home field.  Too much tradition and Sirrianni has some very good players on both sides of the ball.  Their coaching is top notch --- the only possible negative I see (and its very small) is the level of competition they've played outside of the conference (since both teams play the same conference schedule)... but that has been negated because they've blown the doors off everyone they've played.  

I just hope this game lives up the hype and both teams represent well enough to make the NCAA's little end of year Tournament.  I know Thomas More respects W&J --- so there's no bad blood.  Just two teams who are going to play hard and try to impose their will on eachother.  This will be TMC's biggest test on both sides of the ball.  I didn't realize how much W&J has been running the ball and it will be interesting to see how Thomas More handles that.  So far, they've only given up 58 ypg on the ground --- but none of those teams are the quality of Washington and Jefferson.  

I just hope Stellman doesn't approach my name in the record books for passes attempted or completed  --- that would mean TMC either fell way behind or couldn't run the ball at all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 01:00:28 AM
A wet ball does not bode well for either team.. Hopefully its dry tomorrow at gametime..

Forecast: 

Rain early...then remaining cloudy with showers in the afternoon. High near 55F. Winds SW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 80%. Rainfall around a half an inch.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hasanova on October 31, 2009, 09:01:56 AM
As everyone knows, a HUGE game today between the Saints and the Presidents.  It's every conference's dream to have two unbeatens meeting this late in the season!  The automatic bid could be at stake and, certainly, PAC and regional bragging rights.  We're also watching this game closely to see how it affects the South Region Top Ten.  I'll be attending Randolph-Macon at Guilford today in Greensboro, NC, but wish I could be in Washington, PA as well.  Enjoy the game!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2009, 10:34:40 AM
raining (lightly now) and winds picking up.  Could be gusting to 30 mph this afternoon....

I'm thinking TMC wins this ON THE GROUND...we'll see.  Kickoff in 3 hours.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on October 31, 2009, 02:25:11 PM
That's the problem for TMC Bob...everyone knows that they will not attempt to throw the ball downfield. Until the 9 minute mark of the 2nd quarter, they had attempted 0 passes to their wideouts. The O coordinator for TMC has been owned in the first half of this game. Owens is good, but you must be more versatile in calling plays. 8/9 in the box the whole 1st half by WJ. Both defenses playing great football.

We'll see about adjustments..

7-0 WJ at half

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 03:01:20 PM
26 yard TD pass to Farley, TMC ties it up with 7 mins left in 3rd quarter. 

Hopefully the TMC WR are given a chance to step up.  They shouldn't be able to be shutdown 1 on 1.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 03:04:41 PM
Saints intercept Rometo, ball at WJ 28
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 03:09:46 PM
Collier 1 yard run.  TMC 14-7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 03:30:04 PM
Unbelieveable.. Saints pick Rometo off again.  Ball at 44
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 03:47:38 PM
Another Rometo pick.. Should be ballgame.  When is last time WJ was held to 7?  BOTH are a playoff team.  Hats off to Presidents.. TMC totally shutdown the run and rushed the passer.  84 yards for WJ in quarter 1 and 71 in the 45 min since according to Bob Gregg
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2009, 03:57:16 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 03:47:38 PM
Another Rometo pick.. Should be ballgame.  When is last time WJ was held to 7?  BOTH are a playoff team.  Hats off to Presidents.. TMC totally shutdown the run and rushed the passer.  84 yards for WJ in quarter 1 and 71 in the 45 min since according to Bob Gregg
Does the South get 2 Pool C bids?

I honestly cannot leave UMHB at home.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2009, 03:57:16 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 03:47:38 PM
Another Rometo pick.. Should be ballgame.  When is last time WJ was held to 7?  BOTH are a playoff team.  Hats off to Presidents.. TMC totally shutdown the run and rushed the passer.  84 yards for WJ in quarter 1 and 71 in the 45 min since according to Bob Gregg
Does the South get 2 Pool C bids?

I honestly cannot leave UMHB at home.

well lets hope so... because W&J defensively is the best TMC has seen this year.  TMC held W&J to 25 yards of offense in the 4th quarter to hold onto the win.   I still think its TMC 1 and W&J a close 2 in the PAC, and then Geneva.  

Both W&J and UMHB have quality losses.. if there is such a thing.  I think what could hurt UMHB is the lack of D3 competition in the last few weeks.  Balance that out against W&J's weak non-conference and you have a dogfight if it comes down to those two for the SOUTH's Pool C bid.  

I'm just happy TMC is staying out of the Pool C --- its going to get ugly

Bob Gregg:  Great call today on the radio.  This was my first time hearing you... you are a top notch PBP guy.  I would love to do color for a playoff game with you if Pat would need us. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2009, 04:23:25 PM
Thanks, SaintsFan.  Hear the shoutout?


Congrats to TMC.  They got enough to win it.  Back to back PAC titles.
First team in 10 years to beat W&J in back-to-back regular season meetings.


On the other hand:
Pitiful offensive display over the final 45 minutes for the Presidents.  Pitiful.
Gotta block better than that.  Gotta throw better than that.  Gotta run better than that.  Pitiful.

Remeto 9-9 to start, then something like 3-14 with 3 pics...
In defense, didn't get much up front help in the 2nd half.

Offense appeared emotionless after intermission.
Offense made bad decisions, bad executions.

Give TMC credit for causing some of it, but the majority of this loss lies at the feet of the W&J offense.

80 yard, 12 play TD drive late in first quarter.

ONE possession the rest of the game that included two first downs.  Every other possession had one or none...pitiful.

That's the way I saw it.  That's the way I called it.  Some folks on Lincoln Street won't like it, but too bad.  Look in the mirror.  That's what it was.

Now, gotta man up and get it done at Bethany and against Waynesburg.  Then, we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2009, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2009, 04:23:25 PM
Thanks, SaintsFan.  Hear the shoutout?


Congrats to TMC.  They got enough to win it.  Back to back PAC titles.
First team in 10 years to beat W&J in back-to-back regular season meetings.


On the other hand:
Pitiful offensive display over the final 45 minutes for the Presidents.  Pitiful.
Gotta block better than that.  Gotta throw better than that.  Gotta run better than that.  Pitiful.

Remeto 9-9 to start, then something like 3-14 with 3 pics...
In defense, didn't get much up front help in the 2nd half.

Offense appeared emotionless after intermission.
Offense made bad decisions, bad executions.

Give TMC credit for causing some of it, but the majority of this loss lies at the feet of the W&J offense.

80 yard, 12 play TD drive late in first quarter.

ONE possession the rest of the game that included two first downs.  Every other possession had one or none...pitiful.

That's the way I saw it.  That's the way I called it.  Some folks on Lincoln Street won't like it, but too bad.  Look in the mirror.  That's what it was.

Now, gotta man up and get it done at Bethany and against Waynesburg.  Then, we'll see what happens.


Thats sharp, Bob.... but on point.  I can't believe we are talking about the numbers that W&J was held to... unreal.

I didn't hear the shoutout... must've been in the bathroom.  What was it?


TMC now turns their attention to Geneva and MSJ --- Geneva is a must, we'll be focused on them this year and then MSJ --- Bridge Bowl.  Keep the trophy.

We MUST finish 10-0 to be seeded correctly AND to help out our friends at W&J should they win out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2009, 04:43:25 PM
Just call 'em the way I see 'em...ask any of the referees in the southwestern Pennsylvania...they all know that I'll call it the way I see it, whether the home crowd likes it or not...

If Presidents don't make it, or get bumped early, and my high school PBP responsibilities permit, and Pat needs someone, I'd be glad to work.

Been at this game a long time (started doing PBP work at WJPA Radio in 1976)....that makes me a little long in the tooth, bunched up in the shorts and somewhat intolerant of young miscreants begging for candy....

So, I'm heading home to turn off ALL THE LIGHTS, pull the blinds and watch College Football, the Pittsburgh Penguins, and the World Series.  And, since my "D" should be final before Thanksgiving, I don't have to explain any of that to anyone!!!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on October 31, 2009, 08:16:19 PM
Also wanted to give my congrats to TMC.  They are the better team, and program.

I could get into what I saw, what my thoughts are, etc.  It may not be fair because this is the first W&J game I attended this year, and that's very unusual of me to do.

That said, I will say that W&J needs to be judged on what the program is TODAY, not on the 'reputation' they have in terms of national recognition.  With all due respect and playoff appearances aside, it's a program that has lost the PAC more than won it under the current staff.

Maybe I'm just getting older, and need to change my expectations.   I did enjoy my afternoon and will wish another matchup was better than the Pitt/Syracuse game I'll sit through a week from now.  :)

All the best to TMC in the playoffs!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 01, 2009, 11:17:53 AM
Saints Fan,

Congrats to TMC. THey came they saw the Conquered. Impressive display of defense by both teams. I do hope both make it into the tournament to represent the conference. I agree WJ's lack of out of conference games hurts them if they do not win the conference. I don't know where this takes WJ in the future. Burgh Boy is right about the new coaching regime and winning the PAC conference. Banasiak was an unbelievable recruiter. I think this is healthy for our conference with different teams winning the crown. For WJ fans its a turning of the tide. THis was their conference for the last 20 plus years. MY thoughts are we shoudl get used to this.

The Cincy roots are going to go along way for Tmore. If they can continue to get Div 1 talent from the local areas they will thrive in the PAC. I've had this belief in my mind for awhile, but I question how long Tmore will stay in the PAC. I have friends and family in Cincy. THey have kids who play athletics at Tmore. They dont travel to many away games due to the distance from Tmore. With the bulk of the schools in this conference in Western PA and Northern WVA. Tmore seems to be the odd team out in Kentucky.

Saints Fan, Any thoughts to the schools consideration of a conference closer to the school's location?


Congrats to all PAC teams with a W. Good Luck to all next weekend as the regular season is coming to a close.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 01, 2009, 12:36:13 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 01, 2009, 11:17:53 AM
Burgh Boy is right about the new coaching regime and winning the PAC conference. Banasiak was an unbelievable recruiter. I think this is healthy for our conference with different teams winning the crown. For WJ fans its a turning of the tide. THis was their conference for the last 20 plus years. MY thoughts are we shoudl get used to this.

Good to read from you CC.  I know I have gone on that rant before here, but think there is a significant drop in recruiting from the Luckhardt and Banaszak
years.   Some of that may be out of their control, or was de-emphasized though the years Mitchell was president. 

That being said, I don't know if I buy it entirely, and don't really like to hear the quotes I'm reading about how the PAC has 'never' had such a good team other than W&J in the conference.  Waynesburg was supposed to be 'back' when they won the PAC in 2003, and the same comments about 'more competition' in the conference was discussed here when Thiel beat them in '05 for the conference.

That is meant as no disrespect to those teams, or TMC beating them the last two years.  I do think it's time to stop making excuses from the W&J end about the competition improving and admit you have fallen back.

That's my two cents.  For better or (probably) worse.  Beating Bethany, Waynesburg, and being served up for a playoff game or two doesn't really mean much IMO.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 01, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 01, 2009, 11:17:53 AM
Saints Fan, Any thoughts to the schools consideration of a conference closer to the school's location?

Not really.  The school tried to get into the HCAC earlier this decade but was shot down by Admins from Mount St. Joe and Hanover.  It would've been a great fit for the school, despite what was said about the college.  MSJ just doesn't want to compete in the same conference as TMC in any sport --- period.  Not sure the reasoning behind it.  But the President had said it was because of the academics not matching up with the HCAC Mission.  That statement was ridiculous, the academic program is on par if not better than it is at MSJ --- and then you look at some schools who are behind TMC academically like Defiance and Manchester.  TMC won't be leaving for the Heartland, they just went out and got Earlham from the NCAC --- THAT should improve the football part of the equation for them (tongue in cheek).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 01, 2009, 05:04:16 PM
Great moves at halftime to get #1 into the game. If TMC gets versatile in the passing game, they will be in the Final 8 teams this year...Hats off to O-coordinator for mixing it up.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 01, 2009, 06:33:33 PM
Saints Fan,

Good to hear a vote of confidence for Tmore to stay in the PAC. I think this conference will be tougher for WJ to win every year due to the recent additions. Consider Geneva who is 7-1 as we speak and mowing through the competition. TMore has stepped up their game with back to back PAC championships now. Yes, as burgh boy mentioned, Waynesburg and Thiel has stepped up to take the crown away from WJ recently.

Burgh boy, 10-0 seasons and playoffs have become a familiar sight for all President Fans. Its a changing of the guard just like the change in time this weekend. You and Bob Gregg have more insight to share on the recent drop off in talent. I would be very interested to hear Bob's take this dicussion. I remember the likes of Joey Nichols and Brian Dawson tearing through the competition and deep into the playoffs. Their players were always bigger faster and stronger than everyone in the conference, but i believe this is no longer the case. Siranni hasn't done anything to show he doesnt deserve to be in the position he's in. Its very true this conference has changed immensly from the days of just the orginal PAC members. It has become more competitive.

Wayenesburg has dipped into Pittsburgh taking talent away from WJ. GCC, Thiel, Westminster, Geneva, St. Vincent,  Slippery Rock (Div 2) ,and even Carnegie Mellon too. With the WPIAL being the dominant league in PA. You have many Div 3 schools fighting for that talent in Pittsburgh. I really believe Tmore from a demographics is setup beautifully to continue its dominant ways in the PAC. Especially if they can bring guys in from Akron, OH. THat is a backyard of Mount Union, Walsh, Malone, and nearby Cleveland schools BW, and JCU.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 01, 2009, 07:18:42 PM
Thomas More is now #11 in the country according to this website.  I definitely feel they are a Top 10 team..

That said, the Saints owe Geneva big time.. Time to go back to work.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2009, 07:33:26 PM
Institutionally, Mike could never get the kids that Lucky, and even Banny to some extent, got.  That's a fact.

However, that didn't appear to be the issue yesterday, not to me, anyway.

Let me start off by saying, unabashedly, that I never played the game.

But, the obvious emotional difference between the teams in the second half was THE difference in the game.

W&J's defense has upgraded significantly over the past four seasons.  They are an outstanding D-3 defensive unit this year, and held a significantly talented TMC offense to two scores, one coming off a W&J turnover.  The W&J defense played well enough to win the game yesterday, well enough to win by several scores.

The Presidents offense drove 80 yards on 12 plays late in the first quarter, and NEVER gave anything close to the impression that they were all that excited again.

In fact, the most emotion I saw came on a 3rd & 2 play in the fourth when Shumacher was QB.  He was supposed to throw the quick slant to the left to Besong.  He looked left, then took off running to the right and was dropped.  Besong was clearly agitated and Coach Mike showed a little angst.  If thrown and caught, it would have moved the chains.  And that HAD to be the goal at the moment.  But Shu bailed on the play.  And the Presidents never threatened...

The offensive line, while undersized, has done an adequate job.  But let's be clear...there is not a Pintar or Pivnik among them.  Sometimes, you just have to play bigger, faster, stronger than you are.

The difference in the game yesterday (and last year at TMC) was the appearance on one man--Will Imposition.  Will entered the game early in the third quarter and Imosed TMC's will on the Presidents.  Plain & simple.  And the Red & Black didn't answer.

The next two weeks, and the national conference call will be a very pensive time on Lincoln Street.

Will Mike Sirianni ever get admitted the academic borderline players that Lucky got in under Howard Burnett?  Absolutely not.

Will Mike get the same kids that Banaszak was able to recruit?  No, but he doesn't have the Super Bowl rings that Banny has.

Will the Presidents hold their own in the recruiting?  Yes, they will.

But once they get here, as I said yesterday, there comes a day, a game, a play when it's time to simply Man Up and make a play.  The biggest games are usually won by the team that does that.

Yesterday, that team was Thomas More, not W&J.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 08:26:55 AM
Viewing from a distance, Bob... I agree with you.  TMC has been very evenly matched with W&J the past two years in terms of talent.  The combination of coaching and talent they are able to get admitted into school is definitely NOT the issue.   

I had an old coach of mine who used to say.... "it ain't about the X's and O's.... its the Jimmys and Joes" --- TMC Jimmy and Joes have an attitude about them... As CC said... more and more kids being brought into the program were winners at some big-time High Schools in Cincinnati.  Played in front of some big crowds in some big games before TMC...

Now, I think W&J has players from the schools similar to that.  They'll show that the next 3 weeks of their season... yep, I said it... 3 weeks.  I feel their defense is tough... Caponi has them playing in that MUC-esque 4-2-5.   They are definitely a top 15 team in the country this year.  They just were shocked (IMO), by the speed and guts of the Thomas More defense... and never recovered from that shock.


I still don't know how TMC rushes 3  and gets to the QB though... when I heard that, I was puzzled... especially with one being Tyler Owens who is 200 lbs at nose tackle --  don't get me wrong.. he's very quick, but if two guys were assigned to him...

What changes (if any) do you guys see for this weekend with Bethany --- whom, btw, I would NOT want to be this Saturday. 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2009, 09:12:57 AM
The Presidents can play without emotion this week and win comfortably.
I don't expect any changes.

That being said, I wouldn't want to be Bethany this week either.


I've heard the "Larry's & Joe's" many times, particularly from John Luckhardt, along with this one:  "Scheme all you want, Bobby.  If they don't do it, it ain't gettin' done!"

W&J is rooting for TMC to run the table.  Go, Saints!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: touchdownman2010 on November 02, 2009, 09:56:52 AM
WOW, I have been an active D3football fan for many years. I have followed the PAC as much as possible but I have never felt the need to get on this board until now.  I usually enjoy hearing what Bob and Saintsfan have to say because they report on the two best teams in the PAC. Also, the occassional post from Pat Coleman is always inspiring.

But, now to some points I have to make. After the Presidents lost the PAC title for the second year in a row, it seems that everyone wants to call W&J a failure under the current regime. We have Bob who wants to go back to the Banny and Lucky days of the past. I would love to know how many of the players from Banny's era were recruited by Sirianni since he was there as the OC and even the oline coach who has been there as well.

Also, if you follow W&J football, they have been in the playoffs for the past 5 seasons. We are sitting here critiquing a program over four losses. One to Waynesburg, One to Thiel and two to Thomas More. Also, in the past how many games did you have to win to be a PAC Champs 4 maybe 5? So my question to Bob, Is it more important to win the PAC or make the playoffs and have a chance to win a National Title?

If I recall even with these so called great recruits during the Banny era, they never made it past the second round of the playoffs. The current regime as already done that twice with their own recruits.  I think W&J program is just fine. It has not fallen, I would say it has actually progressed more players on the roster than ever. Let's give credit were credit is due, Thomas More is a good football team and well coached.

So for everyone saying that W&J has fallen, you are crazy. The program continues to carry an X on its back. They are still the most respected program in the PAC. So, yea they may not have won the PAC championship but they continue to make the playoffs and win playoff games. I do not remember a W&J team that would rather win the PAC than win a couple of playoff games.

I guess the W&J program even carries an X on its back on this board as well. Maybe you are right Bob, maybe there needs to be more emphasis put on winning the PAC. But, until W&J stops making the playoffs and stops winning playoff games than I think they are just fine. 

Look at the winning percentages of all regimes at W&J. I believe it is something like .83 to .78... Which one would you want?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 10:08:16 AM
I don't think Bob was saying the recruits were the problem.  They are definitely still getting high level kids into school at W&J... and its definitely NOT Coaching... Sirrianni is one of the best at the Division 3 level  ---- I think he's just saying Thomas More imposed their will in each of the last two years they've played.  

W&J's playoff run last year was not unexpected --- they were a great team.  The only difference between the past years and now, is there is a team competing with W&J --- that has a different name than Waynesburg and Thiel.  

There are 3 very good teams in this conference.... Thomas More, Washington and Jefferson and Geneva.  I feel the games played between these three will have the PAC Representatives ready for Playoff Football.


W&J is a playoff team in 2009.


EDIT:

PAC Homer --

The Saints didn't throw downfield at WJ on Saturday because of the winds.  They are not scared to go downfield as I had brought up to you 10 days ago.  They have Farley (#1),  Olthaus (#86), and Kendall Owens as their primary deep threats while Brinck (#88 at 6'4''), Ganshirt (#83), and Doucette (#22) can either go up and get the ball or run down a long pass.  Trevor Stellman is an extremely smart, accurate and efficient passer.  He processes the information (Pre-Med Major) quickly in this offense and will continue to get the ball to his playmakers.

These kids made play after play through 7 weeks of the season, as Stellman has complete trust in each.  At several of the games I've been to, Stellman has been able to throw the ball up into traffic and have these kids come down with the ball.  If TMC gets calm winds these next two weeks, look for them to put the ball into the air --- and these kids will make the plays.  This is the best group of WR's/pass catchers I have seen at Thomas More since the days of my WRs in the late 90s (who hold most of the WR records).  In terms of athletic ability --- they are probably the best TMC has had as a unit since I've been around the program (1995--present).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: touchdownman2010 on November 02, 2009, 10:26:54 AM
Thanks SaintsFan for your quality input.

Back to Football anyway... Does Thomas More get shifted out of the South again or where do we see them in the playoffs?

Also, interesting point can the south get two pool c bids with UMHB and W&J?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2009, 10:46:41 AM
2010, I NEVER called W&J a failure.  I do NOT long for a return to the Lucky or Banny eras.  Period.

My point wasn't about Mike's personal ability to recruit.  My statement was, INSTITUTIONALLY, the rules have changed about who can get in.

And I do follow W&J Football, have for more than 30 years.  They've been to the NCAA playoffs 20 times in the most recently completed 24 seasons.  And I'm not sitting here critiquing a program at all.   The success the Presidents have enjoyed over the past 25 years is what nearly every athletic programs aspires to.

I have, however, written extensively over the weekend about ONE HALF of one football game, and specifically about the OFFENSIVE UNIT'S presentation in that half.  Period.

The performance of the offense after intermission Saturday, Oct. 31, vs. Thomas More, is THE issue that I've talked about since the end of the game.

You write as if winning the PAC title and making the playoffs/national title shot are mutually exclusive.  TMC has both.  W&J could have the second.  We'll see how they respond.

But here's my question:  with the PAC title, the AQ to the national playoffs and a shot at the national title on the line, the offense gave us all what they gave us Saturday afternoon.  Are you pinning YOUR playoff/national title shot on that?  If so, let me be the first to tell you that you'll be disappointed.

What some of the great W&J teams of the past have done is what remains to be seen if the 2009 W&J team can do:  Learn hard, tough, valuable lessons from a loss and put those lessons to use in the playoff run that (hopefully) lies ahead.

The issue that I continue to fail to understand is this:  How can an entire unit LOOK so flat, so disinterested, so uninspired for an entire half of football AFTER intermission, in a game against a team that A) beat you last year, B) is undefeated, and C) is trying to take YOUR automatic berth into the national playoffs away and force you into Pool C's dark, mysterious abyss?

Craig Besong appeared to be one of a very few offensive players who gave a damn.

Tell me I read the whole thing wrong.  Tell me they were all fired up.  Tell me that I should stick talking about bands that play at halftime.  Tell me that I should stick to broadcasting and leave all the motivation stuff to somebody else.  Tell me that I don't know a damn thing about football.

But do not tell me that, after Saturday's second half performance, that
1)  all is well and
2)  that we'll make a nice extended NCAA tournament run and
3)  that losing to Thomas More in a game where the defense allowed just 14 points wasn't really that big a deal.

I don't know how long you've actually been a D3Football fan.  The screenname of "Touchdownman2010" doesn't lead me to think it's been all that long.  I've been at this thing for more than 30 years, 25 straight calling W&J Football.  I've seen losses that, while difficult to take, were losses where it was all left on the field.  And Saturday, I saw a loss that should have been a win, and there was plenty left in the tanks of far too many people, in my opinion.

Enjoy the abyss.  You don't seem to mind that road at all.  Hope it works out for all of us that have enjoyed W&J Football.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: touchdownman2010 on November 02, 2009, 12:06:58 PM
Bob,

Loved the response. Glad to hear that you are only making all of these institutional allegations on one half of football. Anyway, you are right and I will be interested in to how W&J responds. I am sure you have seen other halfs of football like that from some W&J teams. I can recall one against Salisbury and another one against Buff State. Also, one against Allegheny.

But as you stated, all of those teams bounced back. I am interested to see what happens. I have no doubt that the coaching staff will have this group of guys prepared.

The difference I see is at the quarterback position as well as the lack of weapons besides Besong. All of the W&J team in the past have had multiple WRs that the quarterback could target. Also, this was the first big game for inexperienced quarterbacks. 

I will say this much. I do not remember too many W&J team win with defense in the past and I think that is definitely were the strength of this team lies.

Thanks for the valid points Bob. I look forward to hearing you on the radio.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 12:31:19 PM
I guess I'm the one that will wear the 'X' in this matter.  I do believe the program is not what it was under the last two head coaches in terms of talent they have, the size, etc.

That doesn't mean that I have a problem with that entirely either.  The thing I value much more than four years playing was the degree I earned and hangs on my wall.  If that means the program takes a step back and remains strong as an institution, then so be it.

I think there are more options for a high school senior also, especially if you are in the WPIAL schools.  Robert Morris is now an option, Duquesne is now more viable in the area (and know kids personally that passed W&J for going there).  Others may not buy this, but I also think the PSAC in Division II has also been a bigger influence in recent years, around the area.

At the end of the day, it still leads to excuses...if you let them be.  The reality is they no longer are the power of their conference, have lost it to other teams more than they won it under the current staff, and with their play last Saturday would only be a playoff team in name only.  








Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 12:31:19 PM
I guess I'm the one that will wear the 'X' in this matter.  I do believe the program is not what it was under the last two head coaches in terms of talent they have, the size, etc.

That doesn't mean that I have a problem with that entirely either.  The thing I value much more than four years playing was the degree I earned and hangs on my wall.  If that means the program takes a step back and remains strong as an institution, then so be it.

I think there are more options for a high school senior also, especially if you are in the WPIAL schools.  Robert Morris is now an option, Duquesne is now more viable in the area (and know kids personally that passed W&J for going there).  Others may not buy this, but I also think the PSAC in Division II has also been a bigger influence in recent years, around the area.

At the end of the day, it still leads to excuses...if you let them be.  The reality is they no longer are the power of their conference, have lost it to other teams more than they won it under the current staff, and with their play last Saturday would only be a playoff team in name only.  


Good comments on recruiting.  Pat Coleman and Keith McMillian touched on the PSAC in today's Around the Nation Podcast:  

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/02/atn-qb-changes-changing-guard/
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 12:55:06 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 12:35:50 PM


Good comments on recruiting.  Pat Coleman and Keith McMillian touched on the PSAC in today's Around the Nation Podcast:  

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/02/atn-qb-changes-changing-guard/

Thank you.  I just fast forwarded to the W&J part, and glad others see it that way.

I also agree with Bob Gregg on how things were a bit different "INSTITUTIONALLY".  My acceptance letter came from the admissions office.  I know of some that I played with that probably didn't get that same letter.  

That said, those guys never really made an impact.  At least the ones in the four year window that I attended and recall.  Obviously nobody is going to name names, but you couldn't really 'hide' there when it came to classes.  Maybe it was different years after I left, but those kids usually had an empty locker the next year.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2009, 12:58:20 PM
Thanks for the comments on the PSAC increasing the number of football scholarships.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 02, 2009, 03:11:10 PM
Touchdown,

I am with Burgh boy on this matter. I do believe the PAC is a more competitive conference as we have all agreed to. I believe WJ is not attracting the same talent in Pittsburgh like they used to. Institutionally or not.
Your Comments from your original post:
I do not remember a W&J team that would rather win the PAC than win a couple of playoff games.
I guess the W&J program even carries an X on its back on this board as well. Maybe you are right Bob, maybe there needs to be more emphasis put on winning the PAC. But, until W&J stops making the playoffs and stops winning playoff games than I think they are just fine. 


Any coach will tell their kids, its a one week season. I don't think Banny or Siranni would ever be coaching their guys to be ready for the playoffs vs. winning the PAC. You win the PAC to make the playoffs. I just sounded like Herm Edwards, "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!" If WJ didnt care about winning the PAC over the last 5 years I would say thats not acceptable from a coaching standpoint. Definetly not the case at WJ. WJ has had that X on their back for over 20 years in the PAC. Every PAC team aims to use the WJ game as a measuring stick. WJ is not winning all its PAC games not because of coaching, or just to make the playoffs, or coaching schemes, but the talent of the player is different. WJ's 11 men on offense were better than the 11 on defense. WJ's 11 men on defense across the board were better than the 11 men on offense. WJ's special teams were better than the other teams special teams.

I firmly believe that is a fair statement.

Welcome to the Board TD2010
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: touchdownman2010 on November 02, 2009, 03:14:13 PM
Burgh,

Not really agreeing with you on the Banny days vs. today. I will agree that Lucky had things going with two national runner ups, no one in the program has matched that yet.

But, when you look at the Banny days, he finished 10-0 once. Never made it past the second round of the playoffs. And his teams were never ranked in the top 10 at the end of the season.

Today's Program, they have been undefeated multiple times. They have made it to the quarterfinals on two different occassions and they have been ranked as a Top 10 program twice as well.

So, if you can explain to me how it was better back then, I am willing to listen...

Also, any thoughts on the Geneva/Thomas More game?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 02, 2009, 03:16:50 PM
TMC has just as good/better athletes than W/J.
That is a fact....they were even last year.

This year, TMC had better players.
The defense was unreal.

TMC has a better team due largely in part to having better players.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 02, 2009, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: touchdownman2010 on November 02, 2009, 03:14:13 PM
Burgh,

Not really agreeing with you on the Banny days vs. today. I will agree that Lucky had things going with two national runner ups, no one in the program has matched that yet.

But, when you look at the Banny days, he finished 10-0 once. Never made it past the second round of the playoffs. And his teams were never ranked in the top 10 at the end of the season.

Today's Program, they have been undefeated multiple times. They have made it to the quarterfinals on two different occassions and they have been ranked as a Top 10 program twice as well.

So, if you can explain to me how it was better back then, I am willing to listen...

Also, any thoughts on the Geneva/Thomas More game?

TMC 31
Geneva 0
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: touchdownman2010 on November 02, 2009, 03:14:13 PM
Also, any thoughts on the Geneva/Thomas More game?


Yep.  Its payback time for the last two years.  Last year the Saints were prime for a big upset after the W&J win (this game was the following week --- a trip TO Beaver Falls).  I was worried about this game because of the celebration I witnessed following the W&J win.   This year, Geneva will get TMC's full focus and effort.  

Admittedly, I don't know much about GC this season, but I can tell you their defense has been giving up yards and points and they are 7-1 playing the PAC schedule + another game with St Vincent and Frostburg St as their OOC games.  TMC's offense is going to be wide open and the defense is going to play their best---- its Stellman, Collier, Steinmetz, Kohr's last regular season games at Bank of Kentucky Stadium.

If Thomas More treats their Senior Day in the same manner as we did while I played there ----- they are going to play their most inspired game of the year.   Senior Day always brought the best out emotionally in us as we wanted to send the guys out of there with a huge win.  I remember in 1999 Carnegie Mellon swore we were running up the score on them ---- it wasn't that, even our back ups were inspired and frankly, CMU wasn't as good as they felt they were.  I look for a repeat of that game, 10 years ago----  31-7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: touchdownman2010 on November 02, 2009, 03:14:13 PM
Burgh,

Not really agreeing with you on the Banny days vs. today. I will agree that Lucky had things going with two national runner ups, no one in the program has matched that yet.

But, when you look at the Banny days, he finished 10-0 once. Never made it past the second round of the playoffs. And his teams were never ranked in the top 10 at the end of the season.

Today's Program, they have been undefeated multiple times. They have made it to the quarterfinals on two different occassions and they have been ranked as a Top 10 program twice as well.

So, if you can explain to me how it was better back then, I am willing to listen...

Also, any thoughts on the Geneva/Thomas More game?

I'm not really trying to convince anyone of my opinion.  I never watched a team under the last two staffs play as flat with as much on the line Saturday, but the players need to be held accountable as well.

I think the playoff format has also changed in that span, so the advancement of rounds could be debated, and Banaszak only coached four years I believe.  What can't be debated is that he won the PAC every season he coached there.

Hey, agree to disagree.  I watched the last 'undefeated' team you mention blow a #1 seed at home to NC Wesleyan in '07.  That seems to be left out of your argument, but we all have our opinions. 

I would love to be wrong, see W&J get a bid and run through the playoffs.   I'm an alum, donor, and fan of the college and it's program and will continue to be.  That said, to take a page from Bob Gregg, I also "call em like I see em", and that is what I see. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 04:01:30 PM
I remember in 1999 Carnegie Mellon swore we were running up the score on them ---- it wasn't that, even our back ups were inspired and frankly, CMU wasn't as good as they felt they were. 

Running up the score on those guys is a good thing.  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2009, 04:55:10 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 04:30:50 PMI would love to be wrong, see W&J get a bid and run through the playoffs.   I'm an alum, donor, and fan of the college and it's program and will continue to be. 

+1 for the_burghboy....I'd give you another for quoting me, but the system won't let me padded your karma for another 24 hours!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 05:23:10 PM
You are a kind man Mr. Gregg.  No matter what those trick-or-treaters knocking on your door think.   :D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on November 03, 2009, 09:27:03 AM
I am a casual D1AA, D2, & D3 football fan.  I like to see the teams close to Pittsburgh do good so I basically just follow the trib on sundays to see who won.  My question is: compared to the rest of D3 how does the PAC compare?  Are they one of the better D3 football conference, are they average, or below average?

Also does anybody know why Carnegie Mellon and Allegheny not in the PAC?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2009, 10:40:23 AM
Mike,

Great Questions I dont know about CMU, but I can tell you Allegheny and the PAC has several of these discussions through the years. They have been a long standing member in the NCAC which is primarily all Ohio Schools. You have to consider Athletics, Academics, Cost of the institution, different degrees, and etc. From conversations that I had with former Allegheny football coaches I understand their tuition is higher than most PAC schools except for maybe WJ, GCC, and Westminster. Their long standing relationship to the NCAC is another key to the deal. From what I undertand Allegheny is very satisfied even though the travel could be less expensive and less time on the athletes. Many Moons ago Allegheny and JCU (John Carroll) were in the PAC. I do know that Allegheny was an idea thrown around to add to the conference when the PAC went through several expansions over the last 4 years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on November 03, 2009, 10:48:50 AM
Thanks Cleveland, I thought GCC was inexpensive to go to?  I am a ST. Vincent grad from before they were PAC and before football (which i am bitter about.  I orginally went to Robert Morris for football and got injured and thought my days of ball were over.  I transfered and when I healed I wish I went to a D3 school that had a team.  Then a few year later SVC gets a team). 

Anyways how does the PAC football conference stack up with other confernces?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2009, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: mikefln on November 03, 2009, 10:48:50 AM
...
Anyways how does the PAC football conference stack up with other confernces?

Keith McMillan's Around the Nation (http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2009-10-08/A+midseason+look+at+the+races) column from Oct 8th ha his assessment.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 03, 2009, 11:58:58 AM
CMU was in the PAC, their last season was 1989.

As to why they left, it probably depends on who you ask.  I believe their official position at the time was similar to reasoning CC gave with other programs. 

Of course, we thought they wanted out of playing us in football, though the last game they beat W&J and ended up sharing the PAC title that year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2009, 01:22:55 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 03, 2009, 11:58:58 AM
CMU was in the PAC, their last season was 1989.

As to why they left, it probably depends on who you ask.  I believe their official position at the time was similar to reasoning CC gave with other programs. 

Of course, we thought they wanted out of playing us in football, though the last game they beat W&J and ended up sharing the PAC title that year. 

CMU was in the PAC.  And their official statement about leaving was that CMU and the member schools of the PAC were heading in different directions.  I note that it took CMU about 20 years to make the NCAA playoffs in football...

Allegheny was also a member of the PAC.  I believe 1983 was the Gators last year in the conference.  W&J and Allegheny squared off in the 1987 Snow Bowl playoff game with Rick France thundering in from about 8 yards out in overtime to move the Presidents to the South Region Final.  The two didn't play again until 1998 when the started a string of 9 straight meetings (W&J 8-1 in those games).

Then, of course, there is the rumor/gossip/talk that W&J is leaving the PAC for the NCAC.  Observer-Reporter's Joe Tuscano published that this summer, I believe.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on November 03, 2009, 01:41:24 PM
I believe that there is no doubt the W&J will be out of the PAC over the next couple of years.  I believe this change is another one of those "INSTITUTIONALLY THINGS". 

Does W&J make the playoffs if they win out?

Where does Thomas More get seeded?
Is there a possible Thomas More/W&J rematch in the playoffs?

Bob, have you ever seen that type of defense game like the one on Saturday at W&J?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2009, 01:49:45 PM
will W&J apply for the ECAC Playoffs before the deadline this week??  You know, just in case...


FF12 ---

Alot about TMC's seeding will be based on how they finish.  They have Geneva and Mount St Joe left.  MSJ is somehow ranked in the Top 5 Regionally (North).  Wins against these two would help make them a #2 in North or South, IMO.  A loss.... and you'll see them treated like last year, when they were a #8 in the North and went to Chicago to be executed.  

I don't think there will be a re-match in the playoffs.  I think if W&J AND Thomas More make it, one will be moved to a neighboring region (W&J could go east, south or north ---depending on distances) and TMC, as I said could be in the South or North (as they were last year).  

FYI -- Thomas More loses only 2 LB's off that defense for 2010 (and All- PAC LB Matt Clark was moved to FB/TE this year because of the talent).  Its a very young defense and they have some freshman/sophomores who got some PT at W&J this weekend who will figure more prominently next season.  The PAC is going to have to contend with that strong defense for next few years.   The only time someone in the PAC seemed to score on TMC's defense was the result of a very short field from a turnover (Waynesburg) or a trick play (Grove City).  Most of the points scored on them this year was the result of a 1st team offense playing against a bunch of freshman back ups--- but it got those backups some experience.  They are loaded for next year.  They'll have to replace Stellman and Collier on offense.  Both will be missed, but it should be able to be done--- over time. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 03, 2009, 02:20:15 PM
Quote from: footballfan12 on November 03, 2009, 01:41:24 PM
I believe that there is no doubt the W&J will be out of the PAC over the next couple of years.  I believe this change is another one of those "INSTITUTIONALLY THINGS". 


Just curious, but can you give more detail of why you think this? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2009, 02:29:01 PM
Welcome, BlueRebel94...  its good to see you on these boards.  

Your input is welcomed.  Get some more of your teammates on here, please.

To everyone else:  Blue Rebels is the nickname TMC used previous to being forced to change to Saints
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 03, 2009, 02:38:58 PM
What do you mean by W& J being "out of the PAC over the next couple of years?"  Not leaving the conference? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 03, 2009, 03:09:44 PM
Was it that tough of a question or am I just stupid for asking?  It appears that rumors surfaced this summer and the discussion seems to be whispers of W&J bolting the PAC.  As a Saints fan, I would certainly be disappointed if that were to come to pass, given that the TMC/W&J matchup was gaining national attention.  With the entrance of Geneva and the possibilities of Waynesburg regaining form, the PAC would certainly be better than the 13th best conference in D-III.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2009, 03:18:11 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 03, 2009, 03:09:44 PM
Was it that tough of a question or am I just stupid for asking?  It appears that rumors surfaced this summer and the discussion seems to be whispers of W&J bolting the PAC.  As a Saints fan, I would certainly be disappointed if that were to come to pass, given that the TMC/W&J matchup was gaining national attention.  With the entrance of Geneva and the possibilities of Waynesburg regaining form, the PAC would certainly be better than the 13th best conference in D-III.

I don't think he's been back to give an answer to that --- it would indeed be a serious blow to the PAC to lose the Presidents.  I only think its been rumor at this point --- I don't see the Presidents leaving the conference that was named after them (presumably because of their dominance in it) --- tongue planted firmly in cheek on that. 

I'd be very interested to see why he thinks that/what he's heard... on W&J going to the North Coast Athletic Conference.  Meanwhile, the NCAC isn't in a position to do very much, by all accounts they are a man down on the committee there and I don't think they'd be taking on any new teams in that it would add some work to their plates.  Besides, DePauw seems to be a great fit..  They also have some screwy things they are looking for in an institution such as a Chapter of a Certain Fraternity. 

With the scheduling agreement in place between the NCAC and UAA, they have more than enough games they can schedule.  NCAC doesn't HAVE TO add anyone at this point.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 03, 2009, 04:31:31 PM
There has been whispers like that for years.  No disrespect to 'footballfan' and his post, but I wouldn't buy it unless I saw something official. 

As much as we are all engaged with football, it's a conference that supports all the other sports from a logistic standpoint as well as other facets.  Under this president and athletic department, I would be surpised to see any movement.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2009, 04:48:52 PM
There is a lot to be said for traveling no more than 100 miles for the great majority of your soccer, volleyball, softball, tennis, baseball, etc. contests as W&J does now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2009, 07:41:28 PM
Blue Rebels,

I like tBlue Rebels better than the Saints! Talk about going from one end of the spectrum to the other. I guess thats similar to what the Washington Bullets did years ago..Went to Washington WIzards  (NBA) Bringing back the old school flavor I will have to give you some Good Karma for it.

WJ leaving the conference would be hard on the PAC. I know they have expanded it and this football conference will be more competitive goign forward. As we mentioned WJ, Tmore, Geneva, and i think either Waynesburg and THiel can step it up from year to year. Look out for St. VIncent as they remind me of Thiel years ago. New coaching staff brought in over a150 freshmen and 3, 4, and 5 years later they were a great squad which won the PAC. From an institutional sense, what advantages could WJ get from going to the NCAC.

Ralph you mentioned mileage as a factor for athletics with WJ. But the mileage would have to be further for the NCAC.  NCAC foes include Ohio Weslayen which is near columbus in Delaware,Ohio, ALlegheny in Meadville, PA. Also, Denison, Wooster, Hiram, and I believe Wabash in Indiana. This is just off memory here. MOst of those schools are in eastern and southern Ohio. Which would be much further than GCC, Thiel,Waynesburg, Bethany, Geneva, St. Vincent.

Just courious as this is news to me, but  this would send shockwaves through the football community.

Conversations in this have been greatly lately lets keep this going.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2009, 10:27:09 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on November 02, 2009, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 04:01:30 PM
I remember in 1999 Carnegie Mellon swore we were running up the score on them ---- it wasn't that, even our back ups were inspired and frankly, CMU wasn't as good as they felt they were. 

Running up the score on those guys is a good thing.  ;D

I remember CMU running up the score on my alma mater back in the early '90s. Didn't help them get into the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2009, 12:29:39 AM
Pat,

I keep forgetting you are a Catholic grad.. Your alma mater proves that the game of football is truly cyclical. 

I now remember our convo in the Kentucky bar about what teams would be in a Catholic Conference in D3 football, so nevermind..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2009, 12:59:01 AM
Yep.

Came up with a more complete list in discussions with one of the schools' SIDs earlier this season. A potential lineup:

East Division
Anna Maria
Catholic
John Carroll
King's
Salve Regina
St. John Fisher
St. Vincent

West Division
Benedictine
Loras
Mt. St. Joseph
St. John's
St. Norbert
St. Scholastica
St. Thomas
Thomas More
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2009, 09:32:30 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2009, 12:59:01 AM
Yep.

Came up with a more complete list in discussions with one of the schools' SIDs earlier this season. A potential lineup:

East Division
Anna Maria
Catholic
John Carroll
King's
Salve Regina
St. John Fisher
St. Vincent

West Division
Benedictine
Loras
Mt. St. Joseph
St. John's
St. Norbert
St. Scholastica
St. Thomas
Thomas More


Thats a pretty good conference. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 04, 2009, 09:41:57 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2009, 07:41:28 PM
Blue Rebels,

I like tBlue Rebels better than the Saints! Talk about going from one end of the spectrum to the other. I guess thats similar to what the Washington Bullets did years ago..Went to Washington WIzards  (NBA) Bringing back the old school flavor I will have to give you some Good Karma for it.

Cleveland Cartel, Obviously being on the first team in 1990 and having that name for all four years, I liked the name as well.  Unfortunately, the change did not come about because of external pressure or resistence from players or recruits.  Rather it came from a clinically depressed (no joke) Chair of the Theology Department at the College.  The school for years had the name of Rebels and Lady Rebels prior to football, but once football started they added the Blue Rebel name.  Since the change was mandated by the then administration, Saints was the lesser evil (terrible pun). 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2009, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2009, 09:32:30 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2009, 12:59:01 AM
Yep.

Came up with a more complete list in discussions with one of the schools' SIDs earlier this season. A potential lineup:

East Division
Anna Maria
Catholic
John Carroll
King's
Salve Regina
St. John Fisher
St. Vincent

West Division
Benedictine
Loras
Mt. St. Joseph
St. John's
St. Norbert
St. Scholastica
St. Thomas
Thomas More


Thats a pretty good conference. 

And for those who don't know what we're talking about, this is an ECAC-like umbrella conference kind of deal, where it would have a weekly POTW and honor roll and then a postseason "championship" game between the top team from each division that didn't make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 04, 2009, 11:43:53 AM
Hey Pat (Coleman)
As you can tell, I am pretty new to posting but I wanted to ask a question of you regarding stats and see if you or anyone else could help me.

Thomas More has boasted for a few seasons that they are the second fastest D-III program to 100 wins (end of 14th season by my count).  Not that I am second guessing my Alma Mater but do you know where I could find this info or who the top 5 quickest programs to 100 wins?  Curiosity more than anything.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2009, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2009, 11:33:54 AM
And for those who don't know what we're talking about, this is an ECAC-like umbrella conference kind of deal, where it would have a weekly POTW and honor roll and then a postseason "championship" game between the top team from each division that didn't make the playoffs.

BlueRebel,

I'm at fault here for exposing Pat to Dickmann's SportsCafe right near the Thomas More campus last year on the Saturday before NCAA Pairings were announced.  This was one of the many topics we talked about...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 04, 2009, 12:58:07 PM
Dickmann's? Doesn't ring a bell and that's all I have to say about that
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2009, 01:14:35 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 04, 2009, 11:43:53 AM
Hey Pat (Coleman)
As you can tell, I am pretty new to posting but I wanted to ask a question of you regarding stats and see if you or anyone else could help me.

Thomas More has boasted for a few seasons that they are the second fastest D-III program to 100 wins (end of 14th season by my count).  Not that I am second guessing my Alma Mater but do you know where I could find this info or who the top 5 quickest programs to 100 wins?  Curiosity more than anything.
UMHB won their 100th game in their history in the first game this year, their 12th season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2009, 01:39:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2009, 01:14:35 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 04, 2009, 11:43:53 AM
Hey Pat (Coleman)
As you can tell, I am pretty new to posting but I wanted to ask a question of you regarding stats and see if you or anyone else could help me.

Thomas More has boasted for a few seasons that they are the second fastest D-III program to 100 wins (end of 14th season by my count).  Not that I am second guessing my Alma Mater but do you know where I could find this info or who the top 5 quickest programs to 100 wins?  Curiosity more than anything.
UMHB won their 100th game in their history in the first game this year, their 12th season.

That statement by Thomas More was made following the 2003 season.  

Seems that after this season --- TMC needs to change that .  Still, if they are indeed the 3rd fastest to 100 wins, its nothing to sneeze at.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2009, 02:34:53 PM
I suspect that record had to be researched individually. I haven't seen it referenced anywhere.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2009, 03:32:43 PM
New Regional Rankings are out....

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/04/ncaa-regional-rankings-take-2/


TMC has a game AT North Region's #3 in week 11.  Win that and they'll finish 2nd in South as they would have 2 wins against teams in the Regional Rankings. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 05, 2009, 10:00:46 AM
Saints Fan,

New regional ranksings have Wesley at the top at 5-0, 8-0. The 5-0 relates to South Region opponents only, right?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2009, 11:29:46 AM
Hey, SaintsFan....

remember this summer you lamenting the silence on this board?

The only things needed to spice it up a bit was Thomas More beating W&J and me questioning the Presidents' offensive intensity after intermission....

Now look.....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2009, 11:49:50 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 05, 2009, 10:00:46 AM
Saints Fan,

New regional ranksings have Wesley at the top at 5-0, 8-0. The 5-0 relates to South Region opponents only, right?

Yes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2009, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2009, 11:29:46 AM
Hey, SaintsFan....

remember this summer you lamenting the silence on this board?

The only things needed to spice it up a bit was Thomas More beating W&J and me questioning the Presidents' offensive intensity after intermission....

Now look.....

No kidding... the conversation is much better now, IMO


AND my boy, Shriver is now posting finally too... Looking forward to seeing what TMC does to Geneva this weekend
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2009, 12:50:01 PM
to be honest, I liked it much better when the conversation was about how W&J was dominating the PAC---even so much that you mistakenly determined that was the impetus for the conference name....

I won't be around D-III this weekend.  I'm moving to D-II for the State Championship Game between California University of PA & Shippensburg...gonna go see former W&J coach John Luckhardt try to win a second straight PSAC title...

I'll be on later Saturday evening.

Go, W&J.
Go, TMC!!!

And I'm rooting for chalk throughout the rest of D-III...that's the clearest way to the playoffs for the Pool C bound Presidents.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2009, 02:21:48 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2009, 12:50:01 PM
to be honest, I liked it much better when the conversation was about how W&J was dominating the PAC---even so much that you mistakenly determined that was the impetus for the conference name....


I thought they renamed the conference for them after Dan Marino graduated from W&J????
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: nittanybacker on November 07, 2009, 07:39:49 AM
A few years ago I was reading in the Observer-Reporter that W&J was upgrading their facility so that they could get into the NCAC.  I was just wondering what happen to that?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 02:12:21 PM
0-0 after 1 quarter.. Geneva has one 26 yard pass and Thomas More has 2 26 yard passes.  Not much else offensively as TMC has turned it over and shot themselves in the foot with penalties. 

The saints defense has shutdown the run as we expected.  Time for offense to stop with the unforced turnovers
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 02:25:45 PM
7-0 Thomas More.  5 yard TD pass for Stellman.  Stellman had 45 yards rushing on that drive.  That will open up the rushing lanes
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 02:29:35 PM
Following drive for Geneva was 2 and out.. With 5:55 in 2nd quarter.. They quick kicked on 3rd and 16 from the 20.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 02:31:03 PM
55 yard completion to Farley.. 1st and 10 at 13 for TMC
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 02:33:42 PM
Bill**** call costs TMC, a incomplete pass returned as a fumble by Geneva to tie up the score .. Hilvert and staff is hot at the refs
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 02:54:56 PM
10-7.. At the half and just like last week we need to make some adjustments at half.  Our offense has turned it over 4 times and had a FG blocked
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 03:26:26 PM
3 and out for Geneva to start half and TMC marches down to take 14-10 lead.. Another Stellman TD pass.  Defense up..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2009, 05:40:17 PM
21-12 final at Thomas More.  4 turnovers by saints in 1st half.. By far their worst half of football offensively.  Saints Defense won this game by totally shutting down Geneva.  The Tornado offense didn't score a TD, and they got the FG by having a very short field following an INT.

I'm going to say this, the Geneva website touting DeMarco as a great coach is a joke.  He won't have any players with scholarships after next season.. And ygry can keep the part about Southwest PA 4th most winningest coach of coaches with the last name starting with "D".. The coaching I saw today will not win many games when the playing field is level having no scholarships.  Punted 3 times on 3rd down, instructed kicker to kickoff out of bounds (it was obvious) and play calling.. They ran the same 3 running plays all day. 

Someone said on here that they are an up and comer, well I didn't see it.  On a day when TMC played terrible offensive football, Geneva never threatened.. I don't care what the score says.  With that gameplan' the Tornados didn't have a shot in hell today. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 09, 2009, 12:24:12 PM
With the TMC win and the criteria for selection (#25 on playoffs FAQ), shouldn't Thomas More be #2 in the South region this week?  I mean SOS for TMC 157 and H-SC 213, then you have this week's games where MSJ is 9-0 with SOS 193 and Randolph-Macon is 6-3 with SOS 221. 

Not to look passed a local rival in MSJ but what are the chances of TMC winning out and still getting moved to the North like last year due to travel concerns? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2009, 02:02:57 PM
me thinks you're onto something, BlueRebel94....

Beating MSJ would help move Thomas More to maybe the top of the South Regional Rankings.  TMC currently sits 3rd... but #2 Hampden-Sydney College plays a 6-3 Randolph Macon team who has a schedule strength of 221.  MSJ has a schedule strength of 193.  That seems like a wash, they are both pretty low but then you factor in who TMC has played (TMC is 157) and HSC is 213 --- that should be enough to move up to #2 with a win over a team the North Region Committee has ranked at #3. 

Current South Region #1, Wesley plays their 2nd straight non-D3 opponent in Ohio Dominican on Saturday, which will leave them with only 5 South Region wins.  Its an outside chance, though... because Wesley owns a convincing 31-13 on the road at Delaware Valley, The East Region's probable top Ranked team this week after the top 2 (Alfred and Albright) lost last weekend.

As Pat likes to say... its all about who you've beaten. 

If TMC wins on Saturday they would own two victories over Regionally Ranked teams.  Their case would be stronger (but still a little flimsy) if they were the team at 9-1 following Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 09, 2009, 03:23:23 PM
TMC held pat at #10 is coach's poll
W&J moved up to #13
MSJ is now #17
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 09, 2009, 04:13:55 PM
TMC 31
MSJ 16
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 09, 2009, 04:20:43 PM
TMC 24
MSJ 7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2009, 05:48:08 PM
FROM THE PAC OFFICES:

(WEXFORD, Pa.) - Thomas More College senior linebacker Brad Steinmetz (West Harrison, Ind./East Central) has been named the Presidents' Athletic Conference (PAC) Defensive Player of the Week.

Steinmetz paced the Saint defensive unit by posting a game-high 14 tackles, including 11 solo stops and two and a half tackles for a loss, in a 21-12 home victory against PAC foe Geneva College.  His effort led a Thomas More unit which the Golden Tornadoes to three offensive points and 256 yards of total offense, including just 72 on ground.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 09, 2009, 11:51:28 PM
TMC gets 2 weapons back this week on the offensive side of the football.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 10, 2009, 11:53:27 AM
Homer, who are the two weapons and what is SaintsFAN prediction for the Bowl?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 10, 2009, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 10, 2009, 11:53:27 AM
Homer, who are the two weapons and what is SaintsFAN prediction for the Bowl?

Starting WR and starting RB, they played without both last week. The RB has been off and on for the last 4 weeks. The WR has been out for the last 3 games with an injury.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2009, 01:20:01 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on November 10, 2009, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 10, 2009, 11:53:27 AM
Homer, who are the two weapons and what is SaintsFAN prediction for the Bowl?

Starting WR and starting RB, they played without both last week. The RB has been off and on for the last 4 weeks. The WR has been out for the last 3 games with an injury.



#28 Kendall Owens and #86 Nick Olthaus --- Homer had said these two have the skillset to play beyond TMC --- both are sophomores.

The player participation lists Olthaus as a starter last week against Geneva but I saw him on Saturday and he wasn't dressed.  Owens was also not dressed... and they should both be good to go for this week, as Homer said.  

One thing to look for this week is an added emotion for the Saints.  Last year, when the game was put away ---- a few cheap shots resulted in them losing Anthony Knott and Kendall Owens for the Playoff Game.  Look for TMC to "remember" this BS that went on and try to bury the Lions early and then keep going.  

That said... the word around campus is "Remember" as in the BS antics from last year and this one will be 31-7... until the Saints put in the reserves in the 4th.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 10, 2009, 02:44:28 PM
The Dl comes back as well this week. I talked to his dad. Some of the boys "remember" the last 3 years of the MSJ junk.
MSJ will have their tails between their legs by the mid 3rd quarter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2009, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on November 10, 2009, 12:06:18 PMThe RB has been off and on for the last 4 weeks. The WR has been out for the last 3 games with an injury.

Owens & Olthaus BOTH played at W&J Oct. 31.  Just for accuracy's sake.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 10, 2009, 11:30:38 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2009, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on November 10, 2009, 12:06:18 PMThe RB has been off and on for the last 4 weeks. The WR has been out for the last 3 games with an injury.

Owens & Olthaus BOTH played at W&J Oct. 31.  Just for accuracy's sake.

Owens played injured, but Olthaus wasn't active. Olthaus hasn't played in the last two games. I rode up to the game with him on Saturday morning. He didn't even make the trip until the day of the game. The team left the night before.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 11, 2009, 05:07:06 AM
Around the region has a piece on MSJ and the upcoming game with TMC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2009, 08:52:19 AM
Quote from: PAC Homer on November 10, 2009, 11:30:38 PM
Owens played injured, but Olthaus wasn't active. Olthaus hasn't played in the last two games. I rode up to the game with him on Saturday morning. He didn't even make the trip until the day of the game. The team left the night before.

Owens played, and according to the TMC SID in attendance, so did Olthaus.  No number changes, no changes to starting lineup, no changes to the roster.

So, maybe he didn't play, but then the SID's got some questions to answer...

Whatever.  Glad to hear he's healing & TMC is full strength for the Bridge thingy.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2009, 09:12:05 AM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 11, 2009, 05:07:06 AM
Around the region has a piece on MSJ and the upcoming game with TMC.


"Oh, we'll have to play our best game of the season and we'll need them to make some mistakes," Huber said matter-of-factly. "They're better than us. That's no secret. We hope to close the gap this year, be close in the fourth quarter with a chance to win. They beat us up and down the field last year." - Lou Holtz Rod Huber
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 11, 2009, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2009, 09:12:05 AM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 11, 2009, 05:07:06 AM
Around the region has a piece on MSJ and the upcoming game with TMC.


"Oh, we'll have to play our best game of the season and we'll need them to make some mistakes," Huber said matter-of-factly. "They're better than us. That's no secret. We hope to close the gap this year, be close in the fourth quarter with a chance to win. They beat us up and down the field last year." - Lou Holtz Rod Huber


Now that is funny.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2009, 12:53:35 PM
I like Rod Huber....  He's a great motivator... and I root for MSJ the other 51 weeks of the year. 

Did anyone read that column by Clyde Hughes?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Regional rankings:

Rank, Team, In-Region Record, Overall Record
1. Wesley 5-0 9-0
2. Hampden-Sydney 9-0 9-0
3. Thomas More 9-0 9-0
4. Huntingdon 5-0 8-1
5. Mississippi College 7-1 7-2
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-1 8-1
7. Dickinson 8-1 8-1
8. Washington and Jefferson 8-1 8-1
9. DePauw 7-1 7-1
10. Johns Hopkins 7-2 7-2
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2009, 02:53:19 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Regional rankings:

Rank, Team, In-Region Record, Overall Record
1. Wesley 5-0 9-0
2. Hampden-Sydney 9-0 9-0
3. Thomas More 9-0 9-0
4. Huntingdon 5-0 8-1
5. Mississippi College 7-1 7-2
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-1 8-1
7. Dickinson 8-1 8-1
8. Washington and Jefferson 8-1 8-1
9. DePauw 7-1 7-1
10. Johns Hopkins 7-2 7-2

I think, with a win, TMC jumps to #2 this week ---- though we won't see it as they don't publish the rankings after the final game..

W&J needs a big win in the PAC Backyard Brawl --- and some help.  I hope they get in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 12, 2009, 08:04:52 AM
Interesting that the projected bracket has 2-loss ONU in the Pool C over one loss W&J.  Tough first round matchup for TMC with the Texas team UMHB.  We shall see...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2009, 08:21:38 AM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 12, 2009, 08:04:52 AM
Interesting that the projected bracket has 2-loss ONU in the Pool C over one loss W&J.  Tough first round matchup for TMC with the Texas team UMHB.  We shall see...

I've seen Ohio Northern in person this year (plus a visit with Coach Paul after), they are a legit playoff team.  Defense is very good and the QB is a dual threat ala Stellman.  They PTR and play good defense and the QB makes big plays.  They would be a scary draw for anyone. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2009, 10:48:23 AM
Two articles on the Bridge Bowl:


http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-19766-Cincinnati-Sports-Examiner~y2009m11d10-Bridge-Bowl-XIV-A-Little-BB-History#comment

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-19766-Cincinnati-Sports-Examiner~y2009m11d11-Bridge-Bowl-XIV-The-biggest-Bridge-Bowl-ever

Edit:  3 now

http://www.examiner.com/x-19766-Cincinnati-Sports-Examiner~y2009m11d12-Bridge-Bowl-XIV-Brinck-twins-on-separate-sidelines
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 13, 2009, 08:31:34 AM
Lance finally came through on the BB.

http://1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2009, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 12, 2009, 08:04:52 AM
Interesting that the projected bracket has 2-loss ONU in the Pool C over one loss W&J.  Tough first round matchup for TMC with the Texas team UMHB.  We shall see...

Actually, in our projection W&J never makes it to the board, because Dickinson is on the board for the South when the sixth Pool C team is selected.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 13, 2009, 01:08:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2009, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 12, 2009, 08:04:52 AM
Interesting that the projected bracket has 2-loss ONU in the Pool C over one loss W&J.  Tough first round matchup for TMC with the Texas team UMHB.  We shall see...

Actually, in our projection W&J never makes it to the board, because Dickinson is on the board for the South when the sixth Pool C team is selected.

its that whole W&J hasn't beaten anyone with more than 5 wins thing --- though Geneva will have 8 wins this year... but three of those are against St Vincent and Frostburg St.


one final article on the game:

http://www.examiner.com/x-19766-Cincinnati-Sports-Examiner~y2009m11d13-Bridge-Bowl-XIV-Its-Gametime
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 13, 2009, 02:17:20 PM
Why in the heck were they playing St. Vincent twice?  I mean I know they are both provisional but what's the point of two games in one season?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2009, 06:03:29 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 13, 2009, 02:17:20 PM
Why in the heck were they playing St. Vincent twice?  I mean I know they are both provisional but what's the point of two games in one season?
Respectfully, a loss to Geneva, especially an in-region loss, hurts you.  Who would want to risk that?

Geneva may have had trouble filling their schedule,  so the Geneva-St Vincent games worked out well.

When both teams are full members then they are less likely to have two games in the season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2009, 05:48:17 PM
The Bridge Bowl will reside once again in Crestview Hills.. 42-17, Thomas More. 
They didn't play their best, but they didn't have to.  Mount St Joe was WAY over rated.  The huge difference was in the trenches.  TMC took a quick 14-0 lead as MSJ struggled to gain positive yards on offense.  The first pass MSJ completed was to TMC.  Autenreib got another int.  MSJ hurt the Saints in the 2nd quarter with a screen game.  Once TMC made adjustments to it, MSJ couldn't move the ball after halftime. 

This game just showed that 9-0 in the HCAC is not the same as being 9-0 in the PAC.

Home game for TMC next weekend.  But they need to play better.  MSJ is not on the level of what TMC will face next week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2009, 09:43:33 PM
From the front page:

Thomas More and Mount St. Joseph each ran the table and have already clinched playoff spots. But not all 9-0 records are created equal. No. 11 Thomas More proved that by crushing No. 25 Mount St. Joseph 42-17.

Damn right
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2009, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on August 25, 2005, 03:43:11 PM
Quote from: Outsider14 on August 25, 2005, 03:28:44 PM
i don't read this board and don't have time to, but who does w&j scrimmage today?

Mount Union at 3 pm I believe.
I stumbled onto the first page of this thread and found this post.

Only one correction, playoff games begin at 12 noon.

Let's see if that happens.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: rabriggs on November 15, 2009, 12:31:25 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2009, 06:03:29 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 13, 2009, 02:17:20 PM
Why in the heck were they playing St. Vincent twice?  I mean I know they are both provisional but what's the point of two games in one season?
Respectfully, a loss to Geneva, especially an in-region loss, hurts you.  Who would want to risk that?

Geneva may have had trouble filling their schedule,  so the Geneva-St Vincent games worked out well.

When both teams are full members then they are less likely to have two games in the season.

Geneva played Saint Vincent twice this year because they each had a common open date in Week Two. So they played that game and then their regularly-scheduled game in the conference schedule. The options for each team otherwise were not appealing.

It actually generated some additional interest in the series because of the novelty of it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 15, 2009, 11:20:17 AM
SaintsFAN update that signature with another Bridge Bowl and undefeated regular season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2009, 03:21:27 PM
Thomas More hosts DePauw as the #2 team in South and W&J travels to Mount Union as the last team in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 15, 2009, 05:27:34 PM
Congratulations for W & J.

To those who are about to die, we salute you.   :'(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2009, 05:54:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2009, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on August 25, 2005, 03:43:11 PM
Quote from: Outsider14 on August 25, 2005, 03:28:44 PM
i don't read this board and don't have time to, but who does w&j scrimmage today?

Mount Union at 3 pm I believe.
I stumbled onto the first page of this thread and found this post.

Only one correction, playoff games begin at 12 noon.

Let's see if that happens.
Now let's see if I can channel this for the pick'ems.   :D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 15, 2009, 06:42:52 PM
A quick note to the Saints...

This is the playoffs and no lead is big enough.  DePauw has a quick strike offense capable of putting points on the board quickly (unless, apparently, they're at home in a Monon Bell game).  Keep the pedal to the mat, gents.  Pour it on.  And just when you think you've got enough points, go and get some more.  Best of luck on Saturday.  Go Saints.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2009, 07:59:49 PM
Thanks, Wally.. I hope Depauw is as happy with the draw as people are saying on here. 

I really hesitate to say "you haven't seen.. " but I believe our defense is good.  The MONTH has been to totally shutdown the run and then rush the QB and let our ball hawking safeties grab picks. 

Let's see if they can do it on the big stage. 

Overlooked here is TMC was in the playoffs in 2008.. Hopefully experience translates.. In 2009 we are healthy.. And better.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 15, 2009, 08:07:20 PM
For those interested, you're invited to participate in the OAC Playoff Pick-Em Contest.   Whether you joined us in the regular season or not, your welcome to join for the playoffs.

Spreads for Round 1 have been posted in the General Page.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wabashcpa on November 16, 2009, 12:27:04 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2009, 07:59:49 PM
I really hesitate to say "you haven't seen.. " but I believe our defense is good.  The MONTH has been to totally shutdown the run and then rush the QB and let our ball hawking safeties grab picks. 

If your safeties are ballhawks, they'll love this matchup - balls are going to be flying all over the place.  Pretty good O-line, so your pass rush will need to bring the A-game to force Spud into some hurried throws.  He's dangerous with time in the pocket.  If the Bell game is any indicator, Koors (#9) is the main deep threat, although he's pretty much a threat anywhere on the field.  Mulligan and Dahlstrom are generally targets for short or intermediate routes.  Ellis and Karaszia are capable runners, but Wabash was able to keep them in check, and I would expect Thomas More to do the same.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Fripp52 on November 16, 2009, 10:20:02 AM
SaintsFAN, glad my friends from Wabash had the class to share their thoughts with you.  Now that you know so much about DePauw, can you share some insight about TMC ?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 16, 2009, 12:59:41 PM
Aside from what has already been posted, TMC likes to run out of the spread set (39th going into Saturday when they rushed for 200 yards).  Passing is not overwhelming but efficient (125th going into Saturday when they threw 125 yards & 3 TDs).  Rush D is unreal (4th going into Sat. and only gave up negative 7 yards rushing).  Pass D like their Pass O is only 131st but they are 23rd in sacks (had 5 on Sat.) and 20th in Ints (had one Sat.).  DePauw's Offensive strengths vs. TMC D is certainly the matchup to watch. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 16, 2009, 01:12:48 PM
Updating the numbers, TMC finished 2nd to Amherst in Rush D.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 16, 2009, 04:12:44 PM
Thomas More fans...Indianapolis area DePauw fans are looking forward to the trip across I-74 for a great football game Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 16, 2009, 04:52:00 PM
Still haven't updated that signature yet have you SaintsFAN

BTW where is PAChomer?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2009, 05:36:41 PM
D3football.com Pick 'em is up.

http://www.d3football.com/pickem/
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DPU3619 on November 17, 2009, 06:10:14 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2009, 07:59:49 PM
Thanks, Wally.. I hope Depauw is as happy with the draw as people are saying on here. 

Wasn't trying to take anything away from TMC when I said that. When you think you're going to Mount or Whitewater, you feel like you got a favorable match-up when you get ANYBODY else.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 09:41:43 AM
None taken, this is the playoffs and all opponents are certainly respected.  But going to the Mount or Whitewater out of the box is a fate gladly missed by most all teams.

As I said before, I think the matchup to watch will be DePauw's passing vs. TMC D.  Should be fun.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 10:05:20 AM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on November 17, 2009, 06:10:14 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2009, 07:59:49 PM
Thanks, Wally.. I hope Depauw is as happy with the draw as people are saying on here. 

Wasn't trying to take anything away from TMC when I said that. When you think you're going to Mount or Whitewater, you feel like you got a favorable match-up when you get ANYBODY else.

Agreed.  The South region was also helped by having MHB shipped out to the West Region.  Its not an easy bracket by any means but MHB would have been many people's pick to make the Semi's from the South Region. 

Hopefully TMC's pass defense is up to snuff this weekend, sounds like Spud Dick is a legit QB.  I look forward to seeing him in person, as my satellite TV was down last Saturday and I couldn't record the Monon Bell Game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 10:07:44 AM
Quote from: wabashcpa on November 16, 2009, 12:27:04 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2009, 07:59:49 PM
I really hesitate to say "you haven't seen.. " but I believe our defense is good.  The MONTH has been to totally shutdown the run and then rush the QB and let our ball hawking safeties grab picks. 

If your safeties are ballhawks, they'll love this matchup - balls are going to be flying all over the place.  Pretty good O-line, so your pass rush will need to bring the A-game to force Spud into some hurried throws.  He's dangerous with time in the pocket.  If the Bell game is any indicator, Koors (#9) is the main deep threat, although he's pretty much a threat anywhere on the field.  Mulligan and Dahlstrom are generally targets for short or intermediate routes.  Ellis and Karaszia are capable runners, but Wabash was able to keep them in check, and I would expect Thomas More to do the same.

TMC has been able to generate pass rush with their defensive line.  200 lb nose tackle, Tyler Owens has been unblockable all season... but this is probably the best offensive line they've faced to date...  the key as I see it is how many LB's does TMC have to send to get pressure.  By all accounts, Spud Dick could gash the TMC defense with precision passing.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Fripp52 on November 18, 2009, 10:24:14 AM
SaintsFAN, for the playoffs, players cannot leave complimentary tickets at will call like the regular season games.  Will tickets be an issue ?  Looks like the stadium holds 2500.  DePauw travels reasonably well, meaning roughly 2 to 4 per player family attend away games.  I can't speak for the students given the proximity.  Don't know if buses will be chartered or if any will make the trip.  Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 10:57:26 AM
Quote from: Fripp52 on November 18, 2009, 10:24:14 AM
SaintsFAN, for the playoffs, players cannot leave complimentary tickets at will call like the regular season games.  Will tickets be an issue ?  Looks like the stadium holds 2500.  DePauw travels reasonably well, meaning roughly 2 to 4 per player family attend away games.  I can't speak for the students given the proximity.  Don't know if buses will be chartered or if any will make the trip.  Let me know what you think.

If they travel well this could be an issue... BUT, for those who don't get in or like to tailgate there are spots available that overlook the field (from about 30 yards away -- sits on a hill.

I know for the Geneva game (Senior Day) the stands were full and the spots around the field were filled up as well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 11:48:43 AM
AND, since the press box is built, you won't have to look over, around and through media tents to see the game, right fan?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 11:49:04 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 11:48:43 AM
AND, since the press box is built, you won't have to look over, around and through media tents to see the game, right fan?

correct
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 18, 2009, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 10:57:26 AM
Quote from: Fripp52 on November 18, 2009, 10:24:14 AM
SaintsFAN, for the playoffs, players cannot leave complimentary tickets at will call like the regular season games.  Will tickets be an issue ?  Looks like the stadium holds 2500.  DePauw travels reasonably well, meaning roughly 2 to 4 per player family attend away games.  I can't speak for the students given the proximity.  Don't know if buses will be chartered or if any will make the trip.  Let me know what you think.

If they travel well this could be an issue... BUT, for those who don't get in or like to tailgate there are spots available that overlook the field (from about 30 yards away -- sits on a hill.

DPU "fans" don't travel all that well for their own home games (save the Monon Bell).  I doubt you'll have an issue getting crowded with black and old gold. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 18, 2009, 12:49:55 PM
QuoteDPU "fans" don't travel all that well for their own home games (save the Monon Bell).  I doubt you'll have an issue getting crowded with black and old gold. 

Wow. Classy post. Shouldn't you be reading your QB's "blog"?  ;) 

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: D3_DPUFan on November 18, 2009, 12:49:55 PM
QuoteDPU "fans" don't travel all that well for their own home games (save the Monon Bell).  I doubt you'll have an issue getting crowded with black and old gold. 

Wow. Classy post. Shouldn't you be reading your QB's "blog"?  ;) 



+K to both of you... sounds similar to banter between TMC and MSJ ----  only not quite as biting ( I kept up on the Monon Bell page last week)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 18, 2009, 01:00:28 PM
Quote+K to both of you... sounds similar to banter between TMC and MSJ ----  only not quite as biting ( I kept up on the Monon Bell page last week).

As Fripp said, there will be a good contingent of Tiger fans who will be there and ready to tailgate. Sounds like you some good tailgate areas near the stadium? We're all looking forward to the trip.  Is the campus about 15 minutes or so from downtown Cincy?

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 01:12:44 PM
Quote from: D3_DPUFan on November 18, 2009, 01:00:28 PM
Quote+K to both of you... sounds similar to banter between TMC and MSJ ----  only not quite as biting ( I kept up on the Monon Bell page last week).

As Fripp said, there will be a good contingent of Tiger fans who will be there and ready to tailgate. Sounds like you some good tailgate areas near the stadium? We're all looking forward to the trip.  Is the campus about 15 minutes or so from downtown Cincy?



Yep... 15 minutes due South of the city... Get there early... they sell the tailgate spots ($10 each) and the ones that aren't already taken by the people who've had them all season go very quickly.  

If you'd like to arrange a meet and greet with former Saints/Blue Rebels (our old name before the PC police got us), we will have an area reserved for us near the corner of the endzone, 2nd level.

EDIT:  if you guys do travel well on Saturday --- its going to be an unreal environment for the game... it will be loud and a great day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 18, 2009, 01:38:20 PM
QuoteYep... 15 minutes due South of the city... Get there early... they sell the tailgate spots ($10 each) and the ones that aren't already taken by the people who've had them all season go very quickly. 

If you'd like to arrange a meet and greet with former Saints/Blue Rebels (our old name before the PC police got us), we will have an area reserved for us near the corner of the endzone, 2nd level.

EDIT:  if you guys do travel well on Saturday --- its going to be an unreal environment for the game... it will be loud and a great day.

Sounds great...and we'll look for you guys in the end zone.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 18, 2009, 01:46:23 PM
There were 500 people on hand for the biggest non-Bell game of the year at the Stock.  500 people showed up to watch a game against DPU's biggest conference nemesis in a game that was necessary to keep the season on life support.  500 for the biggest game of the year.  500 bothered to show up and see DPU finally get over on Trinity for the first time in recorded history.  Earlham draws twice that crowd and they don't even like sports.

I'm sure those of you that go to TMC this weekend will have a good time.  But let's not paint the DPU travel party like they're going to be a swarming army of orcs. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 18, 2009, 01:50:07 PM
QuoteThere were 500 people on hand for the biggest non-Bell game of the year at the Stock.  500 people showed up to watch a game against DPU's biggest conference nemesis in a game that was necessary to keep the season on life support.  500 for the biggest game of the year.  500 bothered to show up and see DPU finally get over on Trinity for the first time in recorded history.  Earlham draws twice that crowd and they don't even like sports.

I'm sure those of you that go to TMC this weekend will have a good time.  But let's not paint the DPU travel party like they're going to be a swarming army of orcs. 

Why the insecurity? Wabash is awesome...and you won this year's Bell game! You really did! Go tell the IWU folks how great you are and let us interact with the fine folks at TMC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 02:09:41 PM
Its all good, 50 or 500 or 5000, I have my spot already and welcome any of the Tiger fans for a great day of D3 football.  Hopefully, the Saints won't be as hospitable on the field as there is still a game to be played.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 02:12:53 PM
Mentioned earlier that W&J would play Delaware Valley in the 2010 season.
PAC/MAC offices released the complete schedule earlier:


September 11, 2010 (MAC default home team unless switched by mutual agreement)
PAC #1 Washington & Jefferson (9-1, 5-1 PAC) at MAC #1 Delaware Valley (9-1, 7-0 MAC)
PAC #2 Geneva (7-3) at MAC #2 Albright (9-1, 6-1 MAC)
PAC #3 Grove City (5-5, 4-2 PAC) at MAC #3 Lebanon Valley (8-2, 5-2 MAC)
PAC #4 Waynesburg (5-5, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #4 Wilkes (6-4, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #5 Westminster (4-6, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #5 Lycoming (4-6, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #6 Bethany (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #6 King's (3-7, 2-5 MAC)
PAC #7 Thiel (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #7 Widener (3-7, 1-6 MAC)
PAC #8 Saint Vincent (0-10) at MAC #8 FDU-Florham (2-8, 1-6 MAC)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 02:12:53 PM
Mentioned earlier that W&J would play Delaware Valley in the 2010 season.
PAC/MAC offices released the complete schedule earlier:


September 11, 2010 (MAC default home team unless switched by mutual agreement)
PAC #1 Washington & Jefferson (9-1, 5-1 PAC) at MAC #1 Delaware Valley (9-1, 7-0 MAC)
PAC #2 Geneva (7-3) at MAC #2 Albright (9-1, 6-1 MAC)
PAC #3 Grove City (5-5, 4-2 PAC) at MAC #3 Lebanon Valley (8-2, 5-2 MAC)
PAC #4 Waynesburg (5-5, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #4 Wilkes (6-4, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #5 Westminster (4-6, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #5 Lycoming (4-6, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #6 Bethany (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #6 King's (3-7, 2-5 MAC)
PAC #7 Thiel (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #7 Widener (3-7, 1-6 MAC)
PAC #8 Saint Vincent (0-10) at MAC #8 FDU-Florham (2-8, 1-6 MAC)


Bob
I believe you mentioned this previously but TMC was out of this due to travel correct? 

SaintFAN or PAChomer, do we know who the saints will have as the other OOC game besides MSJ?  Are we done with John Carroll?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 02:43:25 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 02:12:53 PM
Mentioned earlier that W&J would play Delaware Valley in the 2010 season.
PAC/MAC offices released the complete schedule earlier:


September 11, 2010 (MAC default home team unless switched by mutual agreement)
PAC #1 Washington & Jefferson (9-1, 5-1 PAC) at MAC #1 Delaware Valley (9-1, 7-0 MAC)
PAC #2 Geneva (7-3) at MAC #2 Albright (9-1, 6-1 MAC)
PAC #3 Grove City (5-5, 4-2 PAC) at MAC #3 Lebanon Valley (8-2, 5-2 MAC)
PAC #4 Waynesburg (5-5, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #4 Wilkes (6-4, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #5 Westminster (4-6, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #5 Lycoming (4-6, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #6 Bethany (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #6 King's (3-7, 2-5 MAC)
PAC #7 Thiel (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #7 Widener (3-7, 1-6 MAC)
PAC #8 Saint Vincent (0-10) at MAC #8 FDU-Florham (2-8, 1-6 MAC)


Bob
I believe you mentioned this previously but TMC was out of this due to travel correct?  

SaintFAN or PAChomer, do we know who the saints will have as the other OOC game besides MSJ?  Are we done with John Carroll?

We are done with John Carroll, I believe.  Not sure who next year will be the opener.  I'd like it to be Hanover or Defiance... one can wish.  

Edit:  These are some candidates for Week 1 (within travel distance):

Carthage
DePauw
Earlham
Rose-Hulman

Here are some candidates for Week 2:

Alfred
Frostburg State


I'd say they find someone for Week 1, as in the past two years and have an open date in week 2.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 03:29:12 PM
Carthage in WI and Alfred in NY??  Notwithstanding the results of the game this week but DePauw being a relatively close playoff team seems most attractive to me.  What about an OAC team that is higher on the pole than JC?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 03:31:18 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 03:29:12 PM
Carthage in WI and Alfred in NY??  Notwithstanding the results of the game this week but DePauw being a relatively close playoff team seems most attractive to me.  What about an OAC team that is higher on the pole than JC?

They only have one open date each... that would be OTT, ONU, CAP, Berg.  Its tough to get one of the higher OAC teams because they usually have the schedule done..  Now TMC could've been working on this before we've thought of it and already have it done... maybe thats why they aren't on the list.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 03:33:31 PM
TMC is not on the list due to travel considerations.

On a completely separate note:  I'm back down to 52....damn.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 03:35:36 PM
Bring on the Dean Paul show and the Polar Bears.  

Bob if I knew how to give you my karma I would.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Blutarsky on November 18, 2009, 04:00:10 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 03:35:36 PM
Bring on the Dean Paul show and the Polar Bears.  

Bob if I knew how to give you my karma I would.

BR94-It's based upon your number of posts.....and, will magically appear when you qualify.  I gave him one for you!


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 04:04:29 PM
Good Man

and an even better qoute as a signature, used to use it on my college answering machine before I graduated and had 4 kids.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 04:13:49 PM
wasn't begging for applause, fellas.

I just thought, "Damn, I didn't do anything today to be so smitten...."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 04:21:02 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 04:04:29 PM
Good Man

and an even better qoute as a signature, used to use it on my college answering machine before I graduated and had 4 kids.

that quote still reveals itself in you from time to time, BR94 !!   At JP's Hall of Fame Induction??  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 18, 2009, 05:40:01 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 02:43:25 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 02:12:53 PM
Mentioned earlier that W&J would play Delaware Valley in the 2010 season.
PAC/MAC offices released the complete schedule earlier:


September 11, 2010 (MAC default home team unless switched by mutual agreement)
PAC #1 Washington & Jefferson (9-1, 5-1 PAC) at MAC #1 Delaware Valley (9-1, 7-0 MAC)
PAC #2 Geneva (7-3) at MAC #2 Albright (9-1, 6-1 MAC)
PAC #3 Grove City (5-5, 4-2 PAC) at MAC #3 Lebanon Valley (8-2, 5-2 MAC)
PAC #4 Waynesburg (5-5, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #4 Wilkes (6-4, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #5 Westminster (4-6, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #5 Lycoming (4-6, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #6 Bethany (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #6 King's (3-7, 2-5 MAC)
PAC #7 Thiel (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #7 Widener (3-7, 1-6 MAC)
PAC #8 Saint Vincent (0-10) at MAC #8 FDU-Florham (2-8, 1-6 MAC)


Bob
I believe you mentioned this previously but TMC was out of this due to travel correct?  

SaintFAN or PAChomer, do we know who the saints will have as the other OOC game besides MSJ?  Are we done with John Carroll?

We are done with John Carroll, I believe.  Not sure who next year will be the opener.  I'd like it to be Hanover or Defiance... one can wish.  

Edit:  These are some candidates for Week 1 (within travel distance):

Carthage
DePauw
Earlham
Rose-Hulman

Here are some candidates for Week 2:

Alfred
Frostburg State


I'd say they find someone for Week 1, as in the past two years and have an open date in week 2.


Mount Union is usually looking for openers.   ;D

I know they're looking for 2012 and beyond.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 18, 2009, 06:43:15 PM
After reviewing an influx of information, the following has been concluded:


             1st      2nd      3rd       4th       Final
TMC          7         0         14        6             27


DEP          10       3          6          6             25


These are two evenly matched football teams; could be quite the matchup problem that TMC was not looking for in their 1st playoff game. If the defense can get by this first test, it will wake them up to a showdown with Mt. Union down the road. Given that, TMC will still be a 2 touchdown underdog against Mt. Union if they meet, but I think that Mt. Union's quickness can be matched up well with TMC athleticism.

Here's a note for both teams: DEP - never stop throwing the football because you will be unable to run. Put the ball in the hands of your QB, he may shine in an intermediate passing game with quality receivers. Stack the box and make TMC pass the football; if they shadow the QB and take him out of the game, then there will be a game. TMC- quit rotating DBs, RBs and WRs. This is not the time in the season to "play everyone" and keep everyone happy. Play the best of the best and let them earn their halos. There are 2 LBs that should never come off the field unless they insist. There are two RBs that should never come off the field unless they insist. There are two WRs that should never come off the field unless they insist. It would be a real tragedy if the Saints' season came down to the wrong personnel being on the field.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DPU3619 on November 18, 2009, 06:53:25 PM
Don't worry.  I don't think it'll take long for DePauw to get away from the run.  They'll probably try to stay somewhat balanced early, but they showed last Saturday that they'll get away from it when it isn't working.  Although, they were behind the entire second half, too.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 19, 2009, 07:58:14 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 18, 2009, 05:40:01 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 02:43:25 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 02:12:53 PM
Mentioned earlier that W&J would play Delaware Valley in the 2010 season.
PAC/MAC offices released the complete schedule earlier:


September 11, 2010 (MAC default home team unless switched by mutual agreement)
PAC #1 Washington & Jefferson (9-1, 5-1 PAC) at MAC #1 Delaware Valley (9-1, 7-0 MAC)
PAC #2 Geneva (7-3) at MAC #2 Albright (9-1, 6-1 MAC)
PAC #3 Grove City (5-5, 4-2 PAC) at MAC #3 Lebanon Valley (8-2, 5-2 MAC)
PAC #4 Waynesburg (5-5, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #4 Wilkes (6-4, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #5 Westminster (4-6, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #5 Lycoming (4-6, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #6 Bethany (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #6 King's (3-7, 2-5 MAC)
PAC #7 Thiel (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #7 Widener (3-7, 1-6 MAC)
PAC #8 Saint Vincent (0-10) at MAC #8 FDU-Florham (2-8, 1-6 MAC)


Bob
I believe you mentioned this previously but TMC was out of this due to travel correct?  

SaintFAN or PAChomer, do we know who the saints will have as the other OOC game besides MSJ?  Are we done with John Carroll?

We are done with John Carroll, I believe.  Not sure who next year will be the opener.  I'd like it to be Hanover or Defiance... one can wish.  

Edit:  These are some candidates for Week 1 (within travel distance):

Carthage
DePauw
Earlham
Rose-Hulman

Here are some candidates for Week 2:

Alfred
Frostburg State


I'd say they find someone for Week 1, as in the past two years and have an open date in week 2.


Mount Union is usually looking for openers.   ;D

I know they're looking for 2012 and beyond.

Dude... you know how I feel about this.  Plus it would mean another trip to A-town for me.  If I could schedule this game, it would be an annual affair.    To make the next leap---  TMC needs to see either Whitewater or MUC up close.  They have the talent coming in,  greater Cincinnati is on lockdown by Coach Hilvert.   He's hit Elder, St. Xavier, Moeller, LaSalle etc very hard. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 19, 2009, 08:22:02 AM
Quote from: PAC Homer on November 18, 2009, 06:43:15 PM
These are two evenly matched football teams; could be quite the matchup problem that TMC was not looking for in their 1st playoff game. If the defense can get by this first test, it will wake them up to a showdown with Mt. Union down the road. Given that, TMC will still be a 2 touchdown underdog against Mt. Union if they meet, but I think that Mt. Union's quickness can be matched up well with TMC athleticism.

Here's a note for both teams: DEP - never stop throwing the football because you will be unable to run. Put the ball in the hands of your QB, he may shine in an intermediate passing game with quality receivers. Stack the box and make TMC pass the football; if they shadow the QB and take him out of the game, then there will be a game. TMC- quit rotating DBs, RBs and WRs. This is not the time in the season to "play everyone" and keep everyone happy. Play the best of the best and let them earn their halos. There are 2 LBs that should never come off the field unless they insist. There are two RBs that should never come off the field unless they insist. There are two WRs that should never come off the field unless they insist. It would be a real tragedy if the Saints' season came down to the wrong personnel being on the field.

Homer,

I also think this is going to be a 4th Quarter game (I took DePauw +17.5 in Hscoach's pick ems).   I also 100% agree with you about the rotation... though, consider this --- only 52 players can dress on Saturday.  Collier and Owens should be the ball carriers--- and Gramke and Steinmetz will be busy on Saturday.  I just hope our DB's are ready.  You know Autenreib is... but the rest are in for a big test.  The only way to beat that Dick is to pressure him and hammer the receivers.   He's a 4 year starter like Trevor, so you know the guy is saavy.   TMC is gonna get their big plays on offense --- its very hard to stop the offense the first time you see it... but turnovers will tell how many points they score.  I like how Trevor was upset after the big win last week --- because he turned it over 3 times. 

They learned last year against NCC ---- by having the lead and the ball in 1st quarter and going in for the score when they turned it over and then NCC blew them out.  The margin for error is slim --- TMC has already experienced this last year and I think thats also a big advantage.  Everything DePauw is doing this week (except for the football part) is new to them.  We'll see if it affects them at all. 

RE:  any potential game with MUC this year.

They would be at least 17 point dogs up in Alliance.  I've had a chance to see that program up close and personal --- and even broadcasted a playoff game up there.  EVERYTHING is different up there from anything I've seen.   TMC or anyone from the South Region would have to play very well for it to be close... most teams don't beat them on their first try.  Wheaton College played 11 playoff games from 2002-2008... in each of the 5 years --- the road ended in Alliance for them.  Its a big mountain. 

Do I think TMC could match up physically with them?  Absolutely --- but there's alot more to it than that. 

Enough of that though, I have a feeling that DePauw is a more than worthy playoff opponent and TMC will need Stellman to be at his best -- quick decisions, accurate throws --- to loosen up the Tiger defense for Collier and Owens.  The option won't net much early on --- if he's connected on some passes, they'll be able to run the ball.  That Tiger defense has played against Millsaps, a spread team (but they throw) --- they have the athletes to defend a spread offense. 

27-20 is what I think the score is going to be --- with TMC defense winning the game in the final 2 minutes by getting off the field.


BTW -- homer, you are more than welcome to visit with the Blue Rebel alumni group.  We have spots 143-147 on Saturday and will be there by 9:30 for the most part.  We'll have the grill going, beverages, stories about playing our "home games" at Lockland HS and some "old guy shenanigans".
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 19, 2009, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 19, 2009, 07:58:14 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 18, 2009, 05:40:01 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2009, 02:43:25 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 18, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2009, 02:12:53 PM
Mentioned earlier that W&J would play Delaware Valley in the 2010 season.
PAC/MAC offices released the complete schedule earlier:


September 11, 2010 (MAC default home team unless switched by mutual agreement)
PAC #1 Washington & Jefferson (9-1, 5-1 PAC) at MAC #1 Delaware Valley (9-1, 7-0 MAC)
PAC #2 Geneva (7-3) at MAC #2 Albright (9-1, 6-1 MAC)
PAC #3 Grove City (5-5, 4-2 PAC) at MAC #3 Lebanon Valley (8-2, 5-2 MAC)
PAC #4 Waynesburg (5-5, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #4 Wilkes (6-4, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #5 Westminster (4-6, 2-4 PAC) at MAC #5 Lycoming (4-6, 3-4 MAC)
PAC #6 Bethany (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #6 King's (3-7, 2-5 MAC)
PAC #7 Thiel (3-7, 1-5 PAC) at MAC #7 Widener (3-7, 1-6 MAC)
PAC #8 Saint Vincent (0-10) at MAC #8 FDU-Florham (2-8, 1-6 MAC)


Bob
I believe you mentioned this previously but TMC was out of this due to travel correct?  

SaintFAN or PAChomer, do we know who the saints will have as the other OOC game besides MSJ?  Are we done with John Carroll?

We are done with John Carroll, I believe.  Not sure who next year will be the opener.  I'd like it to be Hanover or Defiance... one can wish.  

Edit:  These are some candidates for Week 1 (within travel distance):

Carthage
DePauw
Earlham
Rose-Hulman

Here are some candidates for Week 2:

Alfred
Frostburg State


I'd say they find someone for Week 1, as in the past two years and have an open date in week 2.


Mount Union is usually looking for openers.   ;D

I know they're looking for 2012 and beyond.

Dude... you know how I feel about this.  Plus it would mean another trip to A-town for me.  If I could schedule this game, it would be an annual affair.    To make the next leap---  TMC needs to see either Whitewater or MUC up close.  They have the talent coming in,  greater Cincinnati is on lockdown by Coach Hilvert.   He's hit Elder, St. Xavier, Moeller, LaSalle etc very hard. 

I'm for anything that gets SaintsFAN into Alliance more often.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 19, 2009, 09:56:51 AM
Saints roll 34-17.  D will generate INTs and Rushing O will carry the day not unlike 2008 W&J v TMC only with all due respect to Spud Dick, he is not Bobby Swallow (SaintsFAN, no laughing for me working in those two names).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 19, 2009, 10:13:54 AM
That is a perfect post. Classic.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 19, 2009, 10:26:00 AM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 19, 2009, 09:56:51 AM
Saints roll 34-17.  D will generate INTs and Rushing O will carry the day not unlike 2008 W&J v TMC only with all due respect to Spud Dick, he is not Bobby Swallow (SaintsFAN, no laughing for me working in those two names).


HA.. You outdid yourself on that one, Smokin' Joe...

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 19, 2009, 12:01:20 PM

DePauw game notes posted for Saturday's game at Thomas More.


http://depauw.edu/ath/football/2009/notes/thomas%20more.pdf
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 19, 2009, 01:05:25 PM
Thanks DPUFan, here is the TMC preview

http://www.thomasmore.edu/athletics/PDFs/09fbdepauwnotes.pdf
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 19, 2009, 02:05:07 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on November 19, 2009, 01:05:25 PM
Thanks DPUFan, here is the TMC preview

http://www.thomasmore.edu/athletics/PDFs/09fbdepauwnotes.pdf


Don't put that on here.... look at DePauw's.  The TMC one is inferior, as you learn just as much about TMC in DePauw's as you do in their own   >:(
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 19, 2009, 03:55:51 PM
Triple Take, we shall see who is the disappointment on Saturday.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2009, 10:18:26 AM
Looks like the predicted scores for this game mean there will be a dogfight in Crestview Hills tomorrow ---- though I don't think TMC will get held to 20 points.  The offense is hard to prepare for --- option, play-action pass from the spread. 

No doubt this is a good offensive team for DePauw --- but TMC will make them one-dimensional and then focus on harassing Dick.


We'll see tomorrow, I guess. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 20, 2009, 10:43:35 AM
Pat: Thomas More 20, DePauw 17
Ryan: DePauw 20, Thomas More 17
Keith: Thomas More 20, DePauw 9

Smarter people than me but still question their accuracy.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DPU3619 on November 20, 2009, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2009, 10:18:26 AM
No doubt this is a good offensive team for DePauw --- but TMC will make them one-dimensional and then focus on harassing Dick.

We'll see tomorrow, I guess. 

Getting DePauw to ditch the run won't be particularly difficult, especially if that Saints D is as good as advertised.  But, I might be careful what I wish for. :D  Having Spud throw 50 times isn't something I'm entirely certain you want to do.  Also, getting pressure on him is harder than it sounds.  That's a really good pass blocking offensive line.  Spud has been sacked just FIVE times this year.  All year.  That's probably because a lot of their stuff is 3 and 5 step drops. If you start blitzing him, you're going to run into some trouble, I think.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2009, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on November 20, 2009, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2009, 10:18:26 AM
No doubt this is a good offensive team for DePauw --- but TMC will make them one-dimensional and then focus on harassing Dick.

We'll see tomorrow, I guess.  

Getting DePauw to ditch the run won't be particularly difficult, especially if that Saints D is as good as advertised.  But, I might be careful what I wish for. :D  Having Spud throw 50 times isn't something I'm entirely certain you want to do.  Also, getting pressure on him is harder than it sounds.  That's a really good pass blocking offensive line.  Spud has been sacked just FIVE times this year.  All year.  That's probably because a lot of their stuff is 3 and 5 step drops. If you start blitzing him, you're going to run into some trouble, I think.

I agree with what you're saying --- I'm buying in on it.  TMC has gotten pressure from their 3 and 4 man fronts this season.  If the DePauw team likes throwing 3 step slants and other stuff over the middle, there might be trouble there as some of the d lineman will be standing up at certain points.  TMC likes to disguise who is coming this way.... their D-ends have INT's on the season also.

Thats the key to the game IMO --- how many people TMC needs to bring to get pressure.  I'm not entirely comfortable with leaving the DB's on an island, though they are very good.  I'm sure they have a plan for the main WR... hopefully it works  ;)

*MSJ had a QB who was sacked only 5 times going into last week.  DePauw has played better competition than MSJ did --- but the Saints will challenge themselves to get to the QB rushing 4.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 20, 2009, 09:11:13 PM
Good luck to T More tomorrow and beyond.  Would love to see them in Alliance in Round 4.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2009, 12:24:44 PM
14-0 TMC with 7 min left in 1st quarter. Saints have totally shutdown the run and making plays on Dicks passes. 70 yard TD pass to reception by Owens and 1 yard run by Collier. 539 left in 1st quarter and Tigers are now punting for 3rd time..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 21, 2009, 11:40:49 PM
SaintsFAN:  Congrats on your boys moving on.  Good luck next week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 22, 2009, 04:14:57 PM
Congratulations Saints...well played yesterday. That was a hard fought college football game. Both teams left it all on the field. Good luck next week against Johns Hopkins.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2009, 08:28:22 PM
D3dpu,

Thanks.  It was a great game.  There were two differences in this game, imo:

1. TMC speed is hard to simulate in practice.  I believe the quick 14-0 lead happened while Depauw tried to adjust to it.  Owens simply outran Depauw on the opening score.  Then D forced Dick off the field in 3 plays, which was followed by Colliers score. 

2. This one is obvious but the turnovers in 2nd and 4th quarters were the difference.  If such an award existed, Autenreib would be National defensive player of the week. 

Was impressed with Spud Dick.. He was as good as a QB I have seen at this level.  I was kinda surprised to see how many times Depauw ran the ball with having Dick at QB and seeing TMC totally shutdown the run.  Luckily, Thomas More doesn't play another passing team like that again..


*i was surprised at the lower number of people at this game from both the Depauw and Thomas More perspective.. More were at Senior Day 15 days ago against Geneva. 

Congrats on a great season and 1st playoff appearance.  The fans I did talk to were very nice people.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wesleydad on November 22, 2009, 08:40:21 PM
SaintsFAN, just wanted to stop over and say thanks again for defending my post.  I was surprized that the terms mediocre and not that good offended people.  good luck this week, I hear that Johns Hopkins is pretty good on defense.  Wesley played Muhlenberg 2 straight years and the conference is known for tough D.  Not looking ahead, but if wesley plays Thomas More in 2 weeks, it will be nice to see a new team in Dover.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 22, 2009, 09:49:39 PM
SaintsFan..

Yes, I was impressed with your overall team speed...quickest team we faced this year. And I think TMC played with a high motor on both sides of the ball...you've got some good football players who play hard and your offense is tough to defend. Good luck to you guys next week..hope you take it to Johns Hopkins.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 23, 2009, 09:30:51 AM
Spud Dick was the real deal and certainly battled to the end.  WR Koors was everybit as impressive given the coverage he drew throughout the whole game.  Very enjoyable game all the way around.  Will not expect the same fireworks this week with JHU D.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 24, 2009, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2009, 08:28:22 PM
Was impressed with Spud Dick.. He was as good as a QB I have seen at this level.  I was kinda surprised to see how many times Depauw ran the ball with having Dick at QB and seeing TMC totally shutdown the run.  Luckily, Thomas More doesn't play another passing team like that again..

Not even if they make the Semis?  ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 24, 2009, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2009, 08:28:22 PM
Was impressed with Spud Dick.. He was as good as a QB I have seen at this level.  I was kinda surprised to see how many times Depauw ran the ball with having Dick at QB and seeing TMC totally shutdown the run.  Luckily, Thomas More doesn't play another passing team like that again..

Not even if they make the Semis?  ;)

Not even if they make Semis.... because the DePauw passing game (ALL 3 and 5 step drops --- quick passing game) is different from the MUC passing game. 

I was very impressed by the DePauw passing game.  They didn't have any players other than their top receiver who jumped out at you athletically, but the QB was precise and the WR's ran good routes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 24, 2009, 01:06:57 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 24, 2009, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2009, 08:28:22 PM
Was impressed with Spud Dick.. He was as good as a QB I have seen at this level.  I was kinda surprised to see how many times Depauw ran the ball with having Dick at QB and seeing TMC totally shutdown the run.  Luckily, Thomas More doesn't play another passing team like that again..

Not even if they make the Semis?  ;)

Not even if they make Semis.... because the DePauw passing game (ALL 3 and 5 step drops --- quick passing game) is different from the MUC passing game. 

I was very impressed by the DePauw passing game.  They didn't have any players other than their top receiver who jumped out at you athletically, but the QB was precise and the WR's ran good routes.

I see.  Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 24, 2009, 01:06:57 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 24, 2009, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 22, 2009, 08:28:22 PM
Was impressed with Spud Dick.. He was as good as a QB I have seen at this level.  I was kinda surprised to see how many times Depauw ran the ball with having Dick at QB and seeing TMC totally shutdown the run.  Luckily, Thomas More doesn't play another passing team like that again..

Not even if they make the Semis?  ;)

Not even if they make Semis.... because the DePauw passing game (ALL 3 and 5 step drops --- quick passing game) is different from the MUC passing game. 

I was very impressed by the DePauw passing game.  They didn't have any players other than their top receiver who jumped out at you athletically, but the QB was precise and the WR's ran good routes.

I see.  Thanks for the information.

No sweat homie... I think their longest completion was for 20 yards on Saturday.  It was weird... I haven't seen an offense like that in a long time (in that they wanted to stay with the quick game).

You heading up to Alliance at all this fall?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bulldog10 on November 24, 2009, 04:26:04 PM
predictions on the game this weekend Gentlemen?

I think it will be a close one to be honest with you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: Bulldog10 on November 24, 2009, 04:26:04 PM
predictions on the game this weekend Gentlemen?

I think it will be a close one to be honest with you.

too close to call?


JHU 17
TMC 21

I think TMC scores 1 or 2 TD's early while JHU gets used to the new pursuit angles they need to take and then plays great defense the rest of the way.   They'll need this formula. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bulldog10 on November 24, 2009, 04:37:03 PM
Sounds like a very reasonable prediction, I hope the game is played that well.

Is there any way to view Thomas More College Games live online?  Or is there any way to listen to live audio feeds?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 04:51:31 PM
Quote from: Bulldog10 on November 24, 2009, 04:37:03 PM
Sounds like a very reasonable prediction, I hope the game is played that well.

Is there any way to view Thomas More College Games live online?  Or is there any way to listen to live audio feeds?

I'm working on representing D3football.com there but won't know for sure until tomorrow or Thursday about that.  The only thing TMC has is live stats and its carried locally on Insight Channel 6, but I don't think that helps you. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bulldog10 on November 24, 2009, 06:35:28 PM
Yeah thats doesnt help....WHAT A BUMMER! Thats really too bad for all of the fans around the country.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 24, 2009, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 24, 2009, 01:28:45 PM
No sweat homie... I think their longest completion was for 20 yards on Saturday.  It was weird... I haven't seen an offense like that in a long time (in that they wanted to stay with the quick game).

You heading up to Alliance at all this fall?

Probably not Alliance.  Maybe Salem if they make it.  Went to Salem last year and that was a long ride.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 24, 2009, 10:41:12 PM
QuoteIt was weird... I haven't seen an offense like that in a long time (in that they wanted to stay with the quick game).

Hmm...let's see. Maybe because they were shredding your secondary? Think about it...you got some pressure in the first half...but not so much in the second half when DePauw moved up and down the field at will...maybe that quick game was the difference? Just sayin'...but hope you guys kick some ass this week against JHU...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2009, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: D3_DPUFan on November 24, 2009, 10:41:12 PM
QuoteIt was weird... I haven't seen an offense like that in a long time (in that they wanted to stay with the quick game).

Hmm...let's see. Maybe because they were shredding your secondary? Think about it...you got some pressure in the first half...but not so much in the second half when DePauw moved up and down the field at will...maybe that quick game was the difference? Just sayin'...but hope you guys kick some ass this week against JHU...


Definitely not taking anything away from the DePauw game plan... I'm just saying that I haven't seen a team stay with the quick game like that.  Most times, teams will use the quick game to get their QB in rhythm and then mix up the medium-range and long range in with it.  DePauw was very efficent at the 3 step game and I saw no reason for them to go away from it.  It took our pass rush out of the equation and had the defense reacting instead of being aggressive.  No doubt TMC was saved by a couple turnovers otherwise I'd be rooting for DePauw this week.

Hopefully DePauw film didn't make its way to JHU this week --- BUT, I think very few teams have the talent at QB DePauw did --- the stats show he shredded the TMC pass defense, but those of us who were there saw TMC guarding well on more than a few plays only to have Spud Dick get the ball accurately into a small window.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2009, 08:50:02 AM
Quote from: Bulldog10 on November 24, 2009, 06:35:28 PM
Yeah thats doesnt help....WHAT A BUMMER! Thats really too bad for all of the fans around the country.

I know for a fact that D3 will have a crew at Thomas More on Saturday because I'm one of the people on the call.  There will be a link on the frontpage on gameday for everyone who cares to listen.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 25, 2009, 09:14:22 AM
SaintsFan...
Understand...and you make a good point on the coverage...TMC has some quick, athletic DB's who fly around and can make plays...again, good luck this week..will be following on d3football.com!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2009, 02:31:36 PM
GL TMC...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on November 25, 2009, 02:51:45 PM
TMC 28
JHU 14
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bulldog10 on November 25, 2009, 03:04:49 PM
JHU has a good mix of run/pass with a solid RB and a deep core of WR.  They may be able to hang tight with TMC.....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2009, 05:11:23 PM
Quote from: Bulldog10 on November 25, 2009, 03:04:49 PM
JHU has a good mix of run/pass with a solid RB and a deep core of WR.  They may be able to hang tight with TMC.....

The key here, Bulldog10, will be how fast JHU adjusts to TMC's speed.  They play a 4-2-5 defensively and they really get after the run, meanwhile offensively the Saints run the spread option attack with speedy guys in the backfield and throw efficiently.  I compare JHU, stats-wise, to Mount St. Joe --- but with a better RB. 

Whats telling is what will happen in the 1st 10 minutes of the game.  TMC usually starts really fast while teams try to adjust to the option and adjust their pursuit angles.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 27, 2009, 07:52:02 PM


Another game of offense...I don't see TMC slowing the rushing attack of JH (the first time I have said that about any team this year against TMC), but the hard hits from the defense will create some turnovers.

JH defense has to stop the option. IF they do, we got a football game on our hands. If they don't it could get ugly, early.

I hope that in a winning effort, Stellman is used in more drop back situations rather than running the ball another 15 times. TMC is on borrowed time with him as it is...find a way to win, then get ready to shock the world next week.

This could be the year that TMC puts themselves on the map.

If Stellman complets 20+passes, TMC wins by 3 TDs.
If Stellman complets 15+passes, TMC wins by 2TDs.

If Stellman completes less than 15 passes, it's anyone's game.

My guess:

TMC 38
JH 34




Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 28, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
SaintsFAN:  What in the world happened?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on November 28, 2009, 11:59:19 PM
Tough way to go out...followed things on live stats...congrats to seniors....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 29, 2009, 01:04:23 PM
hscoach,


TMC flat out got beat.  JHU is a physical team and TMC took an entire half of football to adjust to it.  Down 21-3 at half, with our QB getting an IV (the freshman backup came in and ended a red-zone opportunity at the end of the half with an INT --- which Hopkins turned into a 14 point swing by driving the field and scoring with 14 seconds left in the half).

TMC played well in the 2nd half, getting two TD passes in the first 8 minutes of the 3rd quarter... and then pulling ahead with 51 seconds left on a 23 yard TD pass from Stellman..  We thought they had it... it turned out to be 1 second too much left on the clock.  JHU had the ball at the Thomas More 45 yard line with 5 seconds left.  TMC jumped offsides then gave up a 9 yard pass, in which the WR got out bounds with 1 second left. 


JHU is a physical and well-coached football team.  TMC needed the defense to slam the door shut in the last minute of the game to win and they couldn't do it against Hopkins.  My hats off to them.  Too many mistakes for TMC in this game to say they should've won. 

The future is still bright at TMC, there was an article by my broadcast partner on the recruiting being done at Thomas More...
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091127/SPT01/911280368/1088/SPT/Local+talent+is+key+for+Thomas+More+College

and the President of the College has created an Executive Board to help bring "championship football" to TMC.  I like the direction of the program.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on November 29, 2009, 04:06:20 PM
Yes all true. But, the offensive playcalling was so lackluster and predictable that a team that was more athletic and talented was beaten by a team that was better prepared. TMC's offense hasn't changed in 32 games, even when they are losing the football games. It seems that this is hindering a program moving in the right direction with talent and recruiting. We shall see if anything different happens next year. My guess is that it won't and that they will live or die with the triple option. BTW, who is the quaterback next year?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 29, 2009, 05:46:29 PM
I believe the next QB at Thomas More is a freshman or sophomore next season.  Robert Kuess has a live arm, good size and speed to replace Stellman.  What he lacks is experience and even though he threw an INT on his only play yesterday, I liked how he came in, was confident in what he saw and threw with good velocity.  That pick happened because he didn't have timing down with the WRs that will come with practice and experience in game situations. It will be him or maybe a freshman they bring in, like Stellman who played in 2005 as a true freshman.

I talked about this and what the future looks like at TMC on this weeks ATN Podcast with Pat Coleman and Keith McMillan.  It will be available tomorrow through the front page of this website. 

As far as playcalling, I was asked on air yesterday by my broadcast partner after TMC failed to convert on 4th down in the 4th quarter.  The question was if Stellman keeping on the option was the right call.  I think they went with what got them to this point.  It was something they can point to as what they do best.  I don't have a problem with it, but I do think they couldve thrown a little more.  But, Hopkins got good pressure on Stellman' so who knows.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 01, 2009, 01:00:58 PM
Did you get censored, PAC Homer?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 03, 2009, 02:43:47 PM
QuoteKick still echoes through program

Front page of D3 football. Saints you were the better team..Use this as motivation over the winter and spring months during off season conditioning. Come back in 10 ready for avengance on everyone.  I am going to the MCU vs Albright game this weekend to support former coaches of mine from Thiel who are now the head coach and assistant coach at Albright. Looking forward to see the Purple People Eaters!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 08, 2009, 03:39:43 PM
Just stopped by to say Hello, fellow PAC'ers.

Have I ever mentioned how much I hate LONG winters?!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 12:05:42 PM
bob,

Ive been busy posting in the MUC room lately. been very active iwth their playoff run. I dont know about you but this weather of a high 55 at 11 am and a low of 20 by 9 P.M. needs to stop! Hopefully were just going to get an abundance of wind and not much snow where I live in the Cleveland area. The Steeler/Browns game tommorrow should be very interesting.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 09, 2009, 12:38:18 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 12:05:42 PM
bob,

Ive been busy posting in the MUC room lately. been very active iwth their playoff run. I dont know about you but this weather of a high 55 at 11 am and a low of 20 by 9 P.M. needs to stop! Hopefully were just going to get an abundance of wind and not much snow where I live in the Cleveland area. The Steeler/Browns game tommorrow should be very interesting.


are you headed back to Alliance this weekend?  I believe I'm making the trip up to visit with some of my MUC buddies on Friday night and maybe participate in the D3football pregame show with Keith McMillan and John McGraw.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 01:45:21 PM
Saints fan,

Yes, me and a twoof my football buddies from my days at Thiel will be with me. We should be in Alliance earlier than last week to enjoy some more of the pregame festitivities and local establishments. Good luck with Keith on the pregame show and throw some love to the PAC!!

At this point I should be up there sometime on Saturday. It would be great to meet you if you want to meet up at Halftime or etc.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 09, 2009, 02:21:50 PM
Hey Cartel!

Do you have a REAL job?  That WAS you on KNR yesterday, right?   ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 03:55:02 PM
Skunks,

Haha! yes I sent in a text message to Reghi on WKNR. For the last 5 months I have been traveling to 8 states visiting my clients. I missed my daily doseage of Rizzo in the morning and Reghi in the afternoon. When I am in the office which I have been for two weeks now, I'll put them on while I'm working.

Do you live outside of Cleveland? I grew up in Olmsted Falls and live in North Royalton today.

Personally I laugh constantly during the Rizzo and Hammer show in the morning. Rizz is hilarious!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 03:56:15 PM
Skunks,

I had to give you some good karma for catching that yesterday. Impressive!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Toph on December 09, 2009, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 03:56:15 PM
Skunks,

I had to give you some good karma for catching that yesterday. Impressive!

And I'm giving you both karma for listening.  Bonus karma if you get your haircuts at Lady Jane's...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 11:08:23 PM
Toph,

I dont go to Lady Janes but I have to know is it worth going to one time? Are the ladies that fine and the big screen TV's everywhere? The owner sounds kind of strange but whatever works!!!

THe real question is have you ever been to Slim n Chubbies in Strongsville and see Rizzo sing every rose has its thorn....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Toph on December 10, 2009, 08:38:57 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on December 09, 2009, 11:08:23 PM
Toph,

I dont go to Lady Janes but I have to know is it worth going to one time? Are the ladies that fine and the big screen TV's everywhere? The owner sounds kind of strange but whatever works!!!

THe real question is have you ever been to Slim n Chubbies in Strongsville and see Rizzo sing every rose has its thorn....

The girls are great.  They are good looking.  The haircuts are only $15.  They do have leather recliners and a fooseball table in the waiting area.  Each stylists' station has a flat screen TV that you can change to whatever you want to watch. 

Rizz sings enough at the office.  I don't need to hear him any more than I already do.   :P

Sorry for the thread jack, folks. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 10, 2009, 03:46:19 PM
CC & Toph,

I live in North Canton, but I am usually driving to clients all over NE Ohio, and have KNR on all the time.  I have not been to Lady Jane's as of yet, but my ex-GF lived in Strongsville so I have been to Slim & Chubbies more than a few times. 

Ok...back to your regular programming...... ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 11, 2009, 10:32:44 AM
Skunks & Toph,

You guys goign to the MUC game tommorrow? I will be there with some friends i played ball with at Thiel.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 11, 2009, 10:40:55 AM
PAC All South Region: 

1st team


LB Brad Steinmetz TMC

2nd team

WR Craig Besong W&J
G  Sean Keith TMC
DE  Jacob Bloomhuff W&J
DT  Tony Clark GCC
DB  Zach Autenrieb  TMC**

3rd team

DT  Tyler Owens TMC
S   Craig Sedunov  W&J
P   Joe Kelly W&J


**Autenrieb is one of 3 Freshman in the Country named to the team. 


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Toph on December 11, 2009, 10:55:14 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on December 11, 2009, 10:32:44 AM
Skunks & Toph,

You guys goign to the MUC game tommorrow? I will be there with some friends i played ball with at Thiel.


I'll be there, uncovered side.  If Mount gets up by 28 or more I'll probably stop by the Hood, but I don't anticipate that happening.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: M and L on December 16, 2009, 08:18:52 AM
Did anyone see Brad Steinmetz. roster bio. For the Aztec bowl?  6-4 225.  I don't think so!  Also Congrats to all the PAC Players who recieved All region Honors.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: M and L on December 18, 2009, 08:35:08 AM
What the hell happened to the TMC bus?  Can't anything run smoothly?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WJAddict on December 27, 2009, 03:01:29 PM
I hate winters
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: TooForRaider on December 29, 2009, 11:29:13 AM
^ Agreed.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 30, 2009, 11:16:18 AM
WJaddict,

Welcome to the board and what a good first post!

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 06, 2010, 12:51:21 PM
Quote
I hate winters

Hang in there....

35 Saturdays to kickoff!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on January 22, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
Thomas More apparent departures:

Nick Olthaus SOPH (transferring to University of Cincinnati)
Kendall Owens SOPH (transferring to University of Miami, Oxford)


Those are two big names to lose.
If you are good enough, they will find you.
Good luck to these two kids, both were fun to watch and probably the best position players at each respective position that Thomas More saw in a long time.

I can see the WR leaving because of run scheme, but I thought Owens would be a 2000 yard rusher his senior season.

TMC might be the new Southern Ohio JUCO.

I'm sure that they will reload.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 22, 2010, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on January 22, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
Thomas More apparent departures:

Nick Olthaus SOPH (transferring to University of Cincinnati)
Kendall Owens SOPH (transferring to University of Miami, Oxford)


Those are two big names to lose.
If you are good enough, they will find you.
Good luck to these two kids, both were fun to watch and probably the best position players at each respective position that Thomas More saw in a long time.

I can see the WR leaving because of run scheme, but I thought Owens would be a 2000 yard rusher his senior season.

TMC might be the new Southern Ohio JUCO.

I'm sure that they will reload.

Agreed... sounds like they have their eye on a great incoming class. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on January 29, 2010, 01:07:10 PM
Kendall Owens is not leaving.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on February 02, 2010, 06:08:10 PM
Hope all is well.  I hate winter too.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on February 09, 2010, 05:27:19 PM
QuoteTMC might be the new Southern Ohio JUCO.

I'm sure that they will reload.

How is the 2010 version of the Saints shaping up? I was impressed with your speed in our playoff game. Took the Tigers a half to adjust. TMC was definitely the fastest team DePauw played last year...quicker than Millsaps or Trinity which generally are the fastest teams on DPU's schedule. Good luck to you next season.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 10, 2010, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: D3_DPUFan on February 09, 2010, 05:27:19 PM
QuoteTMC might be the new Southern Ohio JUCO.

I'm sure that they will reload.

How is the 2010 version of the Saints shaping up? I was impressed with your speed in our playoff game. Took the Tigers a half to adjust. TMU was definitely the fastest team DePauw played last year...quicker than Millsaps or Trinity which generally are the fastest teams on DPU's schedule. Good luck to you next season. 

I got ridiculed by BashDad for talking about TMC's speed in the lead up to the playoffs last year.... ha.   Thanks.   The Saints are goign to be in a great position this fall because of their recruiting over the past two seasons.  They lose their QB and leading rusher at RB... but the aforementioned Kendall Owens (fastest RB) is back for his junior year after flirting with Miami (OH) this offseason.  They need to get a QB in there and probably have found one in freshman Robert Knues.  He got some PT in 2009 and will need experience.  The offensive line will be good again and they only lose 1 WR who contributed in the last month of the year. 

Defensively they lose 2 LB but return everyone else.  Combine that with how they are recruiting Cincy and getting the kids from Elder, Moeller ETC --- things are looking up.

How about DePauw?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on February 10, 2010, 06:12:46 PM
QuoteI got ridiculed by BashDad for talking about TMC's speed in the lead up to the playoffs last year.... ha.   Thanks.   The Saints are goign to be in a great position this fall because of their recruiting over the past two seasons.  They lose their QB and leading rusher at RB... but the aforementioned Kendall Owens (fastest RB) is back for his junior year after flirting with Miami (OH) this offseason.  They need to get a QB in there and probably have found one in freshman Robert Knues.  He got some PT in 2009 and will need experience.  The offensive line will be good again and they only lose 1 WR who contributed in the last month of the year.  

Defensively they lose 2 LB but return everyone else.  Combine that with how they are recruiting Cincy and getting the kids from Elder, Moeller ETC --- things are looking up.

How about DePauw?

You definitely had guys who could run...with another year of seasoning, I think your DB's will be making some plays this year. You've got a nice pipeline from the Cincy Catholic schools...and I noticed several kids from Indianapolis (my home) as well...I look forward to checking out your progress.
As for DePauw, I think the Tigers will be just fine...on offense, lose just three---QB, WR and OL---but they are big losses from both a talent and leadership standpoint. On defense really just lose one---DE---but again a huge loss. So key losses, but LOTS of talent coming back on both sides of the ball and I'm anxious to see the 2010 version of the Tigers...if we can get some guys to step up, which I think we can, in those key spots....could be a fun year. Schedule not friendly though with trips to Trinity and Millsaps.  


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on February 11, 2010, 05:47:41 PM
Quote from: Andy Feltersnatch on February 10, 2010, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: D3_DPUFan on February 09, 2010, 05:27:19 PM
QuoteTMC might be the new Southern Ohio JUCO.

I'm sure that they will reload.

How is the 2010 version of the Saints shaping up? I was impressed with your speed in our playoff game. Took the Tigers a half to adjust. TMU was definitely the fastest team DePauw played last year...quicker than Millsaps or Trinity which generally are the fastest teams on DPU's schedule. Good luck to you next season. 

I got ridiculed by BashDad for talking about TMC's speed in the lead up to the playoffs last year.... ha.   Thanks.   The Saints are goign to be in a great position this fall because of their recruiting over the past two seasons.  They lose their QB and leading rusher at RB... but the aforementioned Kendall Owens (fastest RB) is back for his junior year after flirting with Miami (OH) this offseason.  They need to get a QB in there and probably have found one in freshman Robert Knues.  He got some PT in 2009 and will need experience.  The offensive line will be good again and they only lose 1 WR who contributed in the last month of the year. 

Defensively they lose 2 LB but return everyone else.  Combine that with how they are recruiting Cincy and getting the kids from Elder, Moeller ETC --- things are looking up.

How about DePauw?

Yes, it is confirmed that Owens is coming back. IMO, he will be the best RB in the league as long as he can play through some injury. He seems to come out quickly.
Olthaus is gone:

Receiver Expects to Join UC
Thursday, 11 February 2010 07:30
written by: Tim Adams

Nick Olthaus enjoyed a great career at Elder High School as a rare three year starter and played well enough at his wide receiver position that he was recognized as a three-time GCL All-Star making the 2nd unit as a sophomore and the 1st team as a junior and senior. During his time in Price Hill, he caught over 90 passes for more than 1,400 yards.

Despite those gaudy statistics at a well-known football powerhouse, Olthaus didn't get any attractive FBS opportunities and took his talents to Division III Thomas More College where he helped the Saints to back-to-back PAC championships and a combined 19-4 record.


Olthaus spoke to Bearcat Lair about his original decision to attend Thomas More two years ago.


"I had a lot of options to walk-on at places, but I've come to realize that I think I'm better than Division III football so I now want to move on to better things. I had a good time (at Thomas More) and enjoyed playing with them, but I'm looking forward to moving on."


According to Thomas More's statistics, the two year starter caught a total of 26 passes for 510 yards and 6 touchdowns in 23 games. He also returned 8 kickoffs for 128 yards as a freshman.


Transitioning from pass happy Elder to run oriented Thomas More was tough on Olthaus' psyche. Last year in posting an 11-1 record, the Saints pass/run ratio was exactly 2:1 with 522 rushing plays to 261 passing.


"Thomas More wasn't much of a passing team, and that's why I lost a lot of interest," said Olthaus. "A lot of things were promised to me when I was recruited there, and they just didn't happen so that's why I looked at other places."


After performing at The Pit (10,000+ capacity) for years as well as playing in front of large crowds during events at Nippert Stadium, Olthaus longs for the old days.


"When you go from a GCL school where you sometimes play in front of 12,000 people, you could say it was a bit of a letdown, but I'd hate to say that."


Last year on their way to their first undefeated regular season, the Saints averaged a little less than 3,300 fans a game.


Once the 6'/190 pound receiver decided to leave Thomas More, he made some calls.


"I called a few schools to see what my options might be, and I called Coach Coombs since he was the person who recruited me as a senior at Elder. I have a pretty good relationship with him, and he's a good guy. He said that it would be great for me to come over (to UC) and have the chance to earn a scholarship." Olthaus said he was also given that opportunity when he graduated from Elder two years ago.


Earning a scholarship at Cincinnati will be a challenge, but Olthaus has a plan.


"I'm excited about trying to do better things and getting bigger and becoming a better player. I'm working out right now and have a trainer."


The former Elder star said he is already enrolled at Cincinnati and now just needs to schedule his classes for the start of spring quarter. He expects to participate in UC's fifteen spring practices.


No discussions have taken place defining whether this is a spring walk-on opportunity or if Olthaus has "preferred" walk-on status. With the graduation of the seniors, teams often add players to their roster in the spring so they have adequate numbers to practice and scrimmage, but those players don't always return for fall practice.


"I'm not sure about that (if walk-on or preferred walk-on), but I'm confident in my ability. As long as I stay healthy, I think I'll be able to prove myself."


Due to NCAA transfer rules, Olthaus will be ineligible to play next season. After redshirting in 2010, he will have two years of eligibility remaining.


As a senior at Elder, Olthuas was rated a high 2 star prospect by ESPN and was the No. 153 wide receiver in the country.


Adding Nick Olthaus to the roster continues Cincinnati's impressive run of attracting quality walk-ons to the program. Tony Miliano (PK) of Elder, John Lloyd (P) of CHCA, Corey Mason (LB) of Elder and Lucien Kidd (RB) of North College Hill have all told Bearcat Lair in recent days that they will be joining the Bearcats for next season.



What was not mentioned in this article was that he was by far, the best outside blocker on the team. TMC will miss that this year.

QB?   ::)  Hopefully we got someone out of high school that can throw the ball a couple of times per game. Anyone but Stellman was sub-par last year.

I see TMC in a real dual with W&J this year for the PAC Championship. I have faith that Hilvert will find his way!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: RedDevil4Life on February 12, 2010, 07:35:14 AM
Below is a link to vote for Dickinson Senior QB Ian Mitchell for his phenominal efforts off the field to raise money for children with cancer and other life threatening diseases. He is nominated along with several D1 football players for the "Rare Disease Champion Award". Please go to the website below and show your support by voting for Ian.

Carlisle Sentinel Story:

http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2010/02/10/news/local/doc4b72c7198e960585816937.txt

Vote for Rare Disease Champion:

http://www.upliftingathletes.org/vote
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 12, 2010, 09:57:38 AM
Thats stupid.... the kid pops off about D3football?  He didn't have the stats because he wasn't healthy the last half of the year.  Good luck to him, but TMC will be fine without their "best blocker on the outside"... 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3_DPUFan on February 12, 2010, 12:05:47 PM
Quote"When you go from a GCL school where you sometimes play in front of 12,000 people, you could say it was a bit of a letdown, but I'd hate to say that."

No THAT is a classic quote. Give me a break...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on March 08, 2010, 04:29:48 PM
That truly is classic. Why would he care if 12,000 people watched him block or 12 people watched him block. In his defense, If I was a receiver, I  too would question my need in that offense though.

I'll have fun watching TMC again this year. I am somewhat bored about their offense, and until they allow someone to throw the ball down the field, unfortunately, people aren't going to raise an eyebrow to what is going on over here in Kentucky.

The bottom line is that they won against teams that they should have won against. When it came down to savvy and surprise, they failed miserably. You have to mix it up to get to the Final Four. You also need some luck. I know because I have been watching college football for 25 years.

You can not have a stagnant offense and compete against the best teams in the country, no matter what division you are competing in or how good your athletes are!

Owens staying is a blessing. He will have to be their offensive savior this year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on June 02, 2010, 09:23:13 AM
Its great to get TMC info from a W&J press release:

Thomas More is 12th in Lindy's and 21st in The Sporting News. The Saints have claimed back-to-back conference titles and will be led by Lindy's preseason All-Americans senior defensive lineman Tyler Owens and sophomore defensive back Zach Autenreib. Autenreib also earned a spot of The Sporting News Preseason All-America squad.

The Sporting News selected seven "Games To Watch" for the 2010 season and the Washington & Jefferson-Thomas More game at The Bank of Kentucky Field on Sept. 25 (1:30 pm, Crestview Hills, Ky.) was chosen. The game has decided the conference champion the past two years.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Raider 68 on July 15, 2010, 04:43:36 PM
Who has the best shot at the Presidents Athletic Conference title this fall, Thomas Moore or Washington & Jefferson? :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 16, 2010, 04:21:12 PM
Quote from: Raider 68 on July 15, 2010, 04:43:36 PM
Who has the best shot at the Presidents Athletic Conference title this fall, Thomas Moore or Washington & Jefferson? :)

neither of those two.. I'll take Thomas More College in Northern Kentucky to win the PAC for the 3rd consecutive year ---- if they find a QB to replace Stellman.   
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Raider 68 on July 17, 2010, 05:06:25 PM
Quote from: Rock Stickler on July 16, 2010, 04:21:12 PM
Quote from: Raider 68 on July 15, 2010, 04:43:36 PM
Who has the best shot at the Presidents Athletic Conference title this fall, Thomas Moore or Washington & Jefferson? :)

neither of those two.. I'll take Thomas More College in Northern Kentucky to win the PAC for the 3rd consecutive year ---- if they find a QB to replace Stellman.   


If neither of those two, who would it be then? :-\
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 17, 2010, 07:45:31 PM
He was pointing out that the school is named Thomas More, not Thomas Moore.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 27, 2010, 02:57:41 PM
Thanks, Pat... sorry 68.  I haven't been able to check this website as much recently because of some changes I've been making --- just a little pet peeve of mine, but a common mistake.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 09, 2010, 02:35:27 PM
News from West Virginia (http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/100232884.html)   :D   ;)

Only four more weeks until the first game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: pacd9 on August 12, 2010, 05:21:39 PM
St. Vincent gets their first PAC win in their first official PAC football game September 25th against Thiel?!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: @d3jason on August 15, 2010, 10:51:58 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 09, 2010, 02:35:27 PM
News from West Virginia (http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/100232884.html)   :D   ;)

Only four more weeks until the first game.

Clicked on your link Ralph and this headline came up:

"Man Caught with Pants Down and an Armless Mannequin in Public Park "

Probably missed the story by a few days....I hope :D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 16, 2010, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: pacd9 on August 12, 2010, 05:21:39 PM
St. Vincent gets their first PAC win in their first official PAC football game September 25th against Thiel?!

well, that would be their first opportunity... I honestly don't know.  Thiel was very tough for TMC last year and if that game is a home game for the Tomcats, I'll go with NO.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 24, 2010, 03:54:13 PM
money well spent to support this website ($10 if you don't have an .edu email address)..

www.d3football.com/kickoff

go to there to see who hosts the top PAC teams in the final two weeks of the season (thus theoretically giving them a shot to win the league with two wins there). 

go to there to see who the 3 candidates are at QB for W&J.

go there to see which incoming freshman RB had 138 career TD's in High School and is now playing at Thomas More.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 02, 2010, 04:29:31 PM
Who wins, Hanover or TMC?

My prediction:

TMC 9
Hanover 7

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2010, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 02, 2010, 04:29:31 PM
Who wins, Hanover or TMC?

My prediction:

TMC 9
Hanover 7



Well, I will say this, you picked the winner......
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2010, 01:07:59 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on June 02, 2010, 09:23:13 AM
...The Sporting News selected seven "Games To Watch" for the 2010 season and the Washington & Jefferson-Thomas More game at The Bank of Kentucky Field on Sept. 25 (1:30 pm, Crestview Hills, Ky.) was chosen. The game has decided the conference champion the past two years.
Watch quickly because this one could be decided quickly....

Wow, what I saw Saturday wasn't pretty.  It was almost unrecognizable.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 13, 2010, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2010, 01:07:59 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on June 02, 2010, 09:23:13 AM
...The Sporting News selected seven "Games To Watch" for the 2010 season and the Washington & Jefferson-Thomas More game at The Bank of Kentucky Field on Sept. 25 (1:30 pm, Crestview Hills, Ky.) was chosen. The game has decided the conference champion the past two years.
Watch quickly because this one could be decided quickly....

Wow, what I saw Saturday wasn't pretty.  It was almost unrecognizable.

That bad, Bob? 

TMC is loaded for 2010... at RB, LB and DB... the lines are above solid as well and QB is going to grow into the job. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 13, 2010, 06:06:22 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2010, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 02, 2010, 04:29:31 PM
Who wins, Hanover or TMC?

My prediction:

TMC 9
Hanover 7



Hanover was horrible.
TMC looked great on the ground.

Well, I will say this, you picked the winner......
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2010, 09:12:45 PM
Sho-nuff, long before W&J even THINKS about TMC, they better start thinking about Bethany.

The Presidents have owned the Bison for years, but the Red & Black team I watched Saturday will struggle mightly to beat Bethany if the same squad shows up at Cameron Stadium Saturday night.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 14, 2010, 12:42:14 AM
Quote from: the_burghboy on October 31, 2009, 08:16:19 PM
W&J needs to be judged on what the program is TODAY, not on the 'reputation' they have in terms of national recognition.  With all due respect and playoff appearances aside, it's a program that has lost the PAC more than won it under the current staff.

I posted this after the TMC game last fall.  This program has continued to regress in my opinion under the current staff. 

Having a 'winning football team' is not enough.  Listening to the performance of that broadcast was a joke, and I can only hope they are judged on their performance this season instead of reputations in past ones.

Judging from what I listened to, they may have no choice. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 14, 2010, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 13, 2010, 06:06:22 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2010, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: PAC Homer on September 02, 2010, 04:29:31 PM
Who wins, Hanover or TMC?

My prediction:

TMC 9
Hanover 7



Hanover was horrible.
TMC looked great on the ground.

Well, I will say this, you picked the winner......

That Hanover team beat a pretty decent Centre team in Week 1 on the road.  I think its more what TMC did to them to cause those 6 turnovers.  That and defense flat got after them.  They are faster than they were last year, as a team.  Kues will be a very good QB... we'll see if he's going to be like Stellman though. 

How many TD's did Haydon have in HS?  I heard a crazy number...

They better not take their foot off the pedal this weekend at Geneva. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2010, 12:13:31 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on September 14, 2010, 12:42:14 AM
...Listening to the performance of that broadcast was a joke, and I can only hope they are judged on their performance this season instead of reputations in past ones.  
The performance on the field was a joke, or performance of the broadcast was a joke?

Yikes....what I saw was bad, and I tried to portray it accurately (being the listeners eyes....)

I'm just hoping what you think is bad is what you heard (what I saw) and not I was bad in delivering what I saw....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2010, 12:17:01 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on September 14, 2010, 12:42:14 AM
.... I can only hope they are judged on their performance this season instead of reputations in past ones.

Judging from what I listened to, they may have no choice. 

After last Saturday, here's the very simple way I see the 2010 W&J season:

Win out or you won't have to worry about any NCAA conference calls on Nov. 14th.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 14, 2010, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2010, 12:13:31 PM
Quote from: the_burghboy on September 14, 2010, 12:42:14 AM
...Listening to the performance of that broadcast was a joke, and I can only hope they are judged on their performance this season instead of reputations in past ones.  
The performance on the field was a joke, or performance of the broadcast was a joke?

Yikes....what I saw was bad, and I tried to portray it accurately (being the listeners eyes....)

I'm just hoping what you think is bad is what you heard (what I saw) and not I was bad in delivering what I saw....

haha... +K.  I read that the same way, but didn't think you were THAT $hitty... I listened to the broadcast and thought it was told very well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 14, 2010, 09:22:17 PM
The broadcast was good as always Bob.  My "performance" was meant on the field only  :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on September 15, 2010, 10:11:35 AM
And the bashing of the W&J football team begins. Did I miss a few weeks or was it just week 1?

Burghboy, you continually complain about the current football staff at W&J and try to compare them to years past? If you have not noticed, the PAC has expanded and has changed the conference a lot.

Also, when you say current staff, do you limit it to just the coaches or do you mean administration (i.e. Athletic Director, Admission Staff, President) also?

Now, TMC looked great against Hanover. Seems to be the front runner in the conference. As for the rest of the conference, all the teams seem to be rather even with a few teams still trying to find an identity. Anyone have any insight on St. Vs or Waynesburg?

I look forward to another week of Football.

Oh and Bob, when is the last time Bethany beat W&J?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 15, 2010, 10:38:44 AM
John Luckhardt's first year.
mid-season, 1982:  Bethany 28, @ W&J 9
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 17, 2010, 03:50:35 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on September 15, 2010, 10:11:35 AM
And the bashing of the W&J football team begins. Did I miss a few weeks or was it just week 1?

Burghboy, you continually complain about the current football staff at W&J and try to compare them to years past? If you have not noticed, the PAC has expanded and has changed the conference a lot.

Also, when you say current staff, do you limit it to just the coaches or do you mean administration (i.e. Athletic Director, Admission Staff, President) also?

I look forward to another week of Football.



If all I do is 'complain', then surely you should know who I have directed the critical remarks toward and at times have included more than just coaches. 

This conference has basically added one 'expansion' team that can truly win the conference at this point, which is TMC.    Furthermore, I believe since '03 (the current coaching staff) W&J lost the PAC with teams that already existed, including Thiel and Waynesburg. 

They were dominated in the opener, but that's only 'Week 1', right?  I guess W&J supporters forgot losing the PAC on home field last year.  If anything, the 'expansion' is in more teams going to the playoffs, which allowed a second place team to get crushed in a 55-0 game it didn't deserve to get.  I guess we all should forget that too.

Hey, to each their own.   I'll leave the cheerleading to you.  It isn't my style, especially from what I have seen from this program in recent years when it comes to what the expectations are.   These are my own opinions, but I feel pretty comfortable saying I'm far from alone in having them.






Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan12 on September 17, 2010, 11:21:07 AM
Some valid points, Burghboy.

I still think W&J football is where it needs to be. I find it hilarious that an alumni (I am guessing) is complaining about a program that averages 10 wins a season and is one of the top two programs every year in the conference.

But, you obviously call them as you see them.

Anway, any predictions for this weekend, and how good is TMC this year? St. Vincents seems to be ready to win a PAC game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 17, 2010, 02:12:47 PM
Quote from: footballfan12 on September 17, 2010, 11:21:07 AM
I still think W&J football is where it needs to be. I find it hilarious that an alumni (I am guessing) is complaining about a program that averages 10 wins a season and is one of the top two programs every year in the conference.

You are entitled to your opinion, and can see how you would disagree with me.   I'm sure many at the college are also satisfied with having a 'winning program', including alums that just enjoy an afternoon at College Field and watch them pick apart the St. Vincent's, Bethany's, etc.   You seem to be that type, and nothing wrong with that.

To me and others that may have been more invested or involved with the program, we see it much different.  It's clearly not as good of a program as it used to be.  I guess it all depends on what your expectations are.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2010, 04:50:37 PM
I'm proud that TMC didn't get caught looking ahead today and Hilvert has the boys humming already this year.  Haydon, the freshman RB, had four more TD's giving him 9 in two games... Owens had a PR TD.. 

Big showdown next weekend in KY.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Fball fan on September 18, 2010, 08:49:17 PM
listened in on the W & J game radio on the web.  Sounded like they were laying it to Bethany.  Very beginning of the second quarter and up by 4 scores!!!

Probably tough going for any team playing the Presidents after last weeks loss to Del Val
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Fball fan on September 18, 2010, 08:59:08 PM
Anyone see Waynesburg Thiel today?

How's the Yellow Jackets looking?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Frank Rossi on September 20, 2010, 11:47:37 PM
My condolences to the Thiel family on their loss of Louis Giuntini this weekend.  There may be over 15,000 players and staff members affiliated with Division III teams, but such a loss is never easy to swallow no matter how much or how little contact you have with an affected program.  We are all a big family in our unselfish love of football, and a death in our family causes us all to have to step back and put everything into perspective.

Please be strong and keep his memory alive, as Louis sounded like a great individual and even greater teammate.


(For more on the story, go to http://d3football.com/notables/2010/09/giuntini-passes-away on the main site.)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: maripp2002 on September 21, 2010, 12:00:48 AM
I would also like to say my thoughts and prayers go out to the Thiel community. It's never easy to lose a brother and a promising young man.  All the best as you go through these tough times.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 22, 2010, 02:45:02 PM
Was thinking last night that it's been kinda quiet in here, particularly with the upcoming W&J at TMC game.

Then, it occurred to me, "Why wouldn't it be quiet?  Thomas More hasn't show any interest in giving up the PAC title that they've held the last two years."

"Why would W&J have much to say? They've lost on the road to the Saints, they've lost at home to the Saints.  They've been embarrassed in each of their past two road games (at Mount, at DelVal)."

Hopefully, I'm not driving five hours Saturday to witness another such event!  Time will tell.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 23, 2010, 03:14:09 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 22, 2010, 02:45:02 PM
Was thinking last night that it's been kinda quiet in here, particularly with the upcoming W&J at TMC game.

Then, it occurred to me, "Why wouldn't it be quiet?  Thomas More hasn't show any interest in giving up the PAC title that they've held the last two years."

"Why would W&J have much to say? They've lost on the road to the Saints, they've lost at home to the Saints.  They've been embarrassed in each of their past two road games (at Mount, at DelVal)."

Hopefully, I'm not driving five hours Saturday to witness another such event!  Time will tell.

Me thinks the Presidents show up big time on Saturday... its going to be a 4th Quarter event like last year... and the year before
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2010, 08:07:26 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100923/SPT/9240372/1055/NEWS/Hayden-gives-Thomas-More-an-edge
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BlueRebel94 on September 24, 2010, 03:23:30 PM
Since when is 5'10" 215 lbs with 4.5 40 speed, too small and slow to play D-I or I-AA??

Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2010, 08:07:26 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100923/SPT/9240372/1055/NEWS/Hayden-gives-Thomas-More-an-edge
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2010, 09:05:55 AM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on September 24, 2010, 03:23:30 PM
Since when is 5'10" 215 lbs with 4.5 40 speed, too small and slow to play D-I or I-AA??

Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2010, 08:07:26 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100923/SPT/9240372/1055/NEWS/Hayden-gives-Thomas-More-an-edge

thats exactly what I was thinking... this is like when Will Castleberry "slipped through the cracks", after his offer to Eastern Michigan fell through. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Homer on September 25, 2010, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: BlueRebel94 on September 24, 2010, 03:23:30 PM
Since when is 5'10" 215 lbs with 4.5 40 speed, too small and slow to play D-I or I-AA??

Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2010, 08:07:26 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100923/SPT/9240372/1055/NEWS/Hayden-gives-Thomas-More-an-edge

He's a 4.75 guy tops. That's why he slipped. Closer to 5' 9'' also...
He could have still played FB on some D1 teams as he plays with heart.

TMC has a keeper though, no doubt.
I'd like to say that this would be a great game to watch today, but I don;t think it will be unless W&J puts 9 in the box all day.


TMC 27
W&J 10







Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 25, 2010, 02:16:32 PM
Been out of town.  Belated thoughts and prayers to the Thiel community.

Listening to the game, 17-7 TMC early in the second quarter.  Defense sounds like it's played well under the circumstances the offense is putting them in. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 25, 2010, 02:19:10 PM
Maybe I should stay online.   ::)

Quick response by the offense finally, 17-14. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 25, 2010, 09:40:06 PM
Second year in a row---

W&J led at the half, and the offense did not return after intermission.

A tip of the cap to Jim Hilvert for his halftime adjustments, both sides of the ball.

W&J led 21-17 at the half after nearly emptying the entire cartridge in self-inflicted wounds in the game's first 9 minutes:
muff on punt.
def. pass int.
fumble lost at own five yard line
missed field goal
allowed 80-yard td on pass the covered 3 yards.

Hilvert got his quarterback involved in the run game in the second half, giving Presidents fits.
Hilvert challenged his secondary to cover W&J receivers one-on-one, allowing the front seven to stop the run and pressure the pass.  And they did.

W&J got a first-down on the third play of the half, one in the fourth on an interference penalty and two on the game's final possession.  And they spent the rest of the second half, looking for an answer to what the Saints were doing to them.  They looked like they didn't even know what the question was.

Presidents' defense deserved a much better result than what their offense enabled them to get today in Kentucky.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on September 25, 2010, 10:40:43 PM
Congrats to Coach Colbert and his staff for the win vs Thiel.  When we were up at St. Vincent's I knew you'all were going to win some this year!!  Way to go!!! :) :) :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: oldtimer4774 on September 25, 2010, 10:58:15 PM
So what has happened to the Thiel football program??  When coach leipheimer came they rebuilt for a couple years and had a couple really good seasons in 04 and the undefeated year in 05.  Usually programs can build on successes but that has not happened.  Anyone close to the program or anyone else have any thoughts?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2010, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: footballfan12
I still think W&J football is where it needs to be. I find it hilarious that an alumni (I am guessing) is complaining about a program that averages 10 wins a season and is one of the top two programs every year in the conference.
Let me tell you that, 28 years ago, when John Luckhardt arrived, EVERYBODY associated with W&J would have signed on immediately to be "one of the top two programs every year in the conference."  From the perspective of the previous 30 years at College Field, that seemed like heaven.

Quote from: the_burghboy
To me and others that may have been more invested or involved with the program, we see it much different.  It's clearly not as good of a program as it used to be.  I guess it all depends on what your expectations are.
Hard to argue with this point, and to burghboy's credit, it's a point he's been trying to get across for several years.  What John Luckhardt, John Banaszak and Coach Mike did at W&J was exactly burghboy's point--there are different expectations.  "One of the top two" is no longer acceptable, and it certainly is not acceptable to regularly be the "other" team in the top two in the PAC.

That, however, is exactly where W&J finds itself, now for the third year in a row and the fifth time in the last 8 years.

2003 Waynesburg
2004  W&J
2005 Thiel
2006 W&J
2007 W&J
2008 Thomas More
2009 Thomas More
2010 Thomas More (likely)

Perhaps, it's time for those of us that have been around awhile to adjust our expectations.  A wise man I know once told me that it easier to raise your standard of living than it is to adjust to a lower one.  Sadly, I'm afraid that's where we are today.  


Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 26, 2010, 09:14:58 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 25, 2010, 09:40:06 PM
Second year in a row---

W&J led at the half, and the offense did not return after intermission.

A tip of the cap to Jim Hilvert for his halftime adjustments, both sides of the ball.

W&J led 21-17 at the half after nearly emptying the entire cartridge in self-inflicted wounds in the game's first 9 minutes:
muff on punt.
def. pass int.
fumble lost at own five yard line
missed field goal
allowed 80-yard td on pass the covered 3 yards.

Hilvert got his quarterback involved in the run game in the second half, giving Presidents fits.
Hilvert challenged his secondary to cover W&J receivers one-on-one, allowing the front seven to stop the run and pressure the pass.  And they did.

W&J got a first-down on the third play of the half, one in the fourth on an interference penalty and two on the game's final possession.  And they spent the rest of the second half, looking for an answer to what the Saints were doing to them.  They looked like they didn't even know what the question was.

Presidents' defense deserved a much better result than what their offense enabled them to get today in Kentucky.

W&J will win out.  I feel sorry for the teams they still have to play.  I saw the same adjustments, Bob.   Rometo had to get the ball away, but realistically, he didn't have anywhere to go with it. 

We did see Sirrianni giving it to his team after the game in the endzone.  They'll be fired up next week again.  That defense is pretty good.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2010, 09:42:06 AM
SaintsFan, W&J MAY win out, though that remains to be seen.  Sometimes, when expectations are dashed, when goals are put out of reach, when failure appears, it sticks around a while.  We'll see the character now on this team.  The coaches have a huge challenge in front of them--not one of adjusting to what the opponent is doing on the field, but what the friendlies are doing in the lockerroom.  The Presidents coaching staff now has the responsibility to deal with the shaping the character of young men's lives, not just coaching their X's & O's on the football field.  More than one coach over the years has lost a team when their season goals were dashed early.

W&J is 1-2, and that record lies right at the feet of an ineffective offense, one that appeared to quit early in the DelVal game and one that had no answer to the Thomas More question after halftime.  And, when things lie a the feet of the W&J offense, they are churning in the stomach of the head coach.  Mike is an offensive expert, but has not been able to devise a response to the Thomas More defensive halftime adjustments at least two years in a row.

W&J may win out.  You may feel bad for their upcoming opponents.  But I look at it this way:  W&J dominated the PAC for years with an occasional challenge when a perfect storm arose (Grove City with the future NFL'er at RB).  I see the other teams in the PAC generally getting better and the Presidents coming back to the PAC(K)--forgive the pun.

There will be a huge character evaluation taking place in Washington, PA over the next seven weeks.  Let's see what these young men, coaches included, are made of.  Let's see what kind of doctors, lawyers, business leaders, heck--Commissioners, Mayors and coaches these guys are going to become.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 27, 2010, 09:38:31 AM
For the record, Second Half Possesions:

W&J:
6 plays, punt
3 & out
3 & out
3 & out
3 & out
4 & out (int. pen. on 1st play)
8, ball over on downs.

TMC:
3 & out
3 & out
7 plays, field goal (down 21-20)
8 plays, touchdown (up 26-21)
4 plays, field goal (up 29-21)
3 & out
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Fball fan on October 09, 2010, 08:57:58 AM
Just read of the tragic losss of Thiel Frosh Louis Giuntini, deepest condolences to his family and friends. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Olinemom on October 09, 2010, 09:06:55 AM
Quote from: PAC Fball fan on October 09, 2010, 08:57:58 AM
Just read of the tragic losss of Thiel Frosh Louis Giuntini, deepest condolences to his family and friends. 
So sorry to hear about the loss of Louis Giuntini.  I'll keep his family in my thoughts and prayers.  I have such great memories of my time at Thiel with their fans.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Fball fan on October 09, 2010, 09:39:23 AM
Interesting matchups this weekend in the PAC.

Bethany coming off of a big win last week against the Yellow Jaclets travels to Westminster where The Towering Titans look for their first conference win.

W and J at home against the up and coming Bearcats, undefeated in the conference this year.  NOONE should overlook St. Vincents.  Although Cameron Field seems a tough place to try to secure the W.

Yellow Jackets in a nonconference tie up against the Golden Tornados in what might be the most tightly contested game of the weekend.

Thomas More seeking to notch another PAC win on their way to spoil Homecoming at Grove City and climb one more step to the Conference Auto-Bid.  Looking forward to watching the trenches on this one to see how the TMC sack pack (#3 Volker and #72 Owens .... First and Third in the Conference in SACKS), fair against the Grove City O Line anchored by All Conference LT Polesnak.  Keeping the QB with a Clean Uni will be a key for Grove City today.  
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bleedpurple on October 18, 2010, 09:54:23 AM
HELP WANTED:

Looking for Pollsters for a "soon to be unveiled" D3 TOP 25 FAN POLL.

Publishing site: www.uwwfootball.blogspot.com

REQUIREMENTS:

1. Commit to submit a ballot ranking the D3 Teams 1-25 by stated deadline. I'm thinking that will be midnight on Mondays.
2. Research the teams and try to be as unbiased as possible in ranking them.
3. Think through your own philosophy as to how much to weigh previous ranking, won/loss record, your sense as to who would win head to head, national performances in recent years, quality wins, and whatever reasonable criteria you care to choose.   
4. Submit a ballot EVERY WEEK by the deadline. Missing a deadline will be cause to forfeit your spot. Create and submit your ballot BEFORE viewing the D3football.com poll. You can look at previous weeks polls to get you started if you are having a hard time filling out the last few slots.

PURPOSE OF POLL

This poll is to promote meaningful and fun discussion on d3boards.com.  It is simply something that will be fun to contrast with D3football.com's poll. D3football.com's poll is the one legitimate poll we have in D3 football in my opinion.  This poll is not even intended to become #2. I just think it would be an interesting point of comparison and discussion. 

HOW TO APPLY

Send me a private message. In your message indicate:
1. you are applying to be a pollster.
2. What team/conference you follow.
3. Whether you can submit a poll as early as this Thursday. (That is not mandatory, if everyone can we may do one this week).

WHO WILL BE CHOSEN?

The first 25 respondents will be our initial group of pollsters.  This group will remain the D3 FOOTBALL FAN POLL TOP 25 pollsters unless they resign their position or miss a deadline.  Pollsters, I will never post your names on the boards.  If you choose to, that is fine. If you are beyond the first 25 responses, your name will be placed on a "waiting list".  If there are fewer than 25 respondents by midnight on Wednesday, we will go with what we have and continue to have "open" slots to be filled.

Remember FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED!  ;)

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Fball fan on October 23, 2010, 09:20:44 AM
No chatter at all for the PAC Board lately?

2 night games   Including the first ever night game at Westminster as the Tomcats and Titans look for their first conference win.

W & J playing under the Stars in Beaver Falls where the Golden Tornado's always play tough.

Thomas More should feel fewer effects of Bus Lag as they travel to the other western most outpost of the PAC in Bethany.

Saint Vincents who has played very tough this year awaiting a Grove City team fresh off of a night game win (is it the D3 equivalent of an NFL "short week"?).

Frostburg State Rolling in to Waynesburg in non-con action.

Well lets get the PAC Board moving!!!

I'll throw some predictions,, perhaps others will join, or you can even tell me how wrong I was next week as we Monday Morning QB.  I am thinking UPSET WEEKEND.

WM 34 Thiel 17

Geneva 38 W & J 31

Beth 31 Tom More 24

St V 21 GC 17

Wayne 45 Frostburg 7





Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2010, 12:04:28 AM
There's no chatter because it's all over but the chatter...Thomas More beat W&J in week 3 and that's all she wrote....

So much for your "upset weekend"...

Thomas More 48, Bethany 14 (you had Bison)
St. Vincent 42, Grove City 17 (called the Bearcat win--tossup game)
Waynesburg 41, Frostburg State 7 (called the Yellowjacket win--not an upset)
Westminster 35, Thiel 0 (called the Titans victory--not an upset)
Wash. & Jeff. 22, Geneva 16 (you had the Golden Tornadoes)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: labart96 on October 24, 2010, 11:22:35 AM
We at "In the HuddLLe" (www.inthehuddLLe.com) are very excited to announce a very special guest coming onto the show this Sunday at 7:30 PM ET!!!

We will be welcoming Dr. Tony Strickland of the David Geffenn School of Medicine at UCLA and the Sports Concussion Institute (http://www.concussiontreatment.com/). 

Dr Strickland has recently appearred on both ESPN's Outside the Lines and the NFL Network to discuss concussions and the work SCI has done in the diagnosis and treatment of the same.

Dr. Strickland has requested we encourage fans, players and otherwise interested parties to please dial into the show to ask their questions.  That said we would like to solicit you to call in and drive the dialogue with Dr. Strickland given the prominence of this topic in the national headlines.   Our switchboard line is 646-200-0576.

Again the date of his appearance will be tonight Sunday, Oct 24 at 7:30 PM ET. 

Thanks in advance your assistance in making this special opportunity to get a refreshing and informed perspective on this nationally relevant topic!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Schwami on October 26, 2010, 01:49:59 PM
Disturbing news in today's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette touching upon the Waynesburg and Bethany football teams  :(

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10298/1097968-100.stm

Edit:  An earlier version of the report stated that "Witnesses have told police the fight broke out between players from Waynesburg and members of the Bethany College football team."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC Fball fan on October 28, 2010, 11:16:26 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2010, 12:04:28 AM
There's no chatter because it's all over but the chatter...Thomas More beat W&J in week 3 and that's all she wrote....

So much for your "upset weekend"...

Thomas More 48, Bethany 14 (you had Bison)
St. Vincent 42, Grove City 17 (called the Bearcat win--tossup game)
Waynesburg 41, Frostburg State 7 (called the Yellowjacket win--not an upset)
Westminster 35, Thiel 0 (called the Titans victory--not an upset)
Wash. & Jeff. 22, Geneva 16 (you had the Golden Tornadoes)



Ok Well I didn't think that all the picks last week were upsets.  Really just the the TM and W & J Games I thought would have been upsets naturally, had they occurred. 

Although while not watching the W & J game I did listen on the radio.  Sounds like an upset was only about 10 yards away!


But having gotten at least one reply, I may make a prediction for this Saturdays games too.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2010, 11:35:31 AM
Quote from: PAC Fball fan on October 28, 2010, 11:16:26 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 24, 2010, 12:04:28 AM
There's no chatter because it's all over but the chatter...Thomas More beat W&J in week 3 and that's all she wrote....

So much for your "upset weekend"...

Thomas More 48, Bethany 14 (you had Bison)
St. Vincent 42, Grove City 17 (called the Bearcat win--tossup game)
Waynesburg 41, Frostburg State 7 (called the Yellowjacket win--not an upset)
Westminster 35, Thiel 0 (called the Titans victory--not an upset)
Wash. & Jeff. 22, Geneva 16 (you had the Golden Tornadoes)



Ok Well I didn't think that all the picks last week were upsets.  Really just the the TM and W & J Games I thought would have been upsets naturally, had they occurred. 

Although while not watching the W & J game I did listen on the radio.  Sounds like an upset was only about 10 yards away!


But having gotten at least one reply, I may make a prediction for this Saturdays games too.

well you were pretty close on the total points for the TMC/Bethany Game..  Not to worry, the rest of the country is sleeping on TMC this year also.  I've heard opinoins raning from "haven't played anybody", which they haven't... but will in the postseason .... to "they have replaced W&J as the team that is good enough to be ranked, but not a great team" (paraphrasing)

They will have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove come playoff time --- provided they beat Westminster and Waynesburg. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2010, 11:33:50 AM
This week's D3 Top 25 Fan Poll has been released!

www.uwwfootball.blogspot.com

For discussion, go to general football as there is a thread for this poll...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2010, 10:02:42 AM
just in case anyone still reads this Conference page:

The new regional rankings are out...

MY TAKE:  Its a gift to be in the playoffs, but the perceived weakness of the PAC is costing TMC and could cost them a home playoff game.

South Region
1. Wesley 5-0 8-0
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0
3. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0
4. DePauw 8-0 8-0
5. Thomas More 8-0 8-0
6. Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1
7. Ursinus 7-1 7-1
8. Salisbury 4-2 6-2
9. Randolph-Macon 7-1 7-1
10. Washington and Lee 6-2 6-2
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: thundergroundstyle1 on November 08, 2010, 10:48:57 AM
First time poster long time D3 fan.  Been involved with the HCAC, OAC, and PAC for some years now.  Just wanted to say congratulations to Jimmy Hilvert and to the rest of the team for winning the PAC again this year.  Saw the team play early in the year and they looked damn good.  Didn't really think they were worth being in th upset of the week pick 4 times this year but what can you do.  Saw the Mount play a few times this year and hopefully those boys bring it for this Rivalry game. Been a nice little battle the past 7 years.  Hope some people actually jump on here, the PAC board has been dead all year.  I love reading the HCAC board cause there is always chatter and the Mount union board I mean OAC board is always fun.  SO to get it started I am saying that this Waynesburg, W&J game will be close and come down to the final few drives but I see W&J winning after Waynesburg emotional loss to Thomas More this past Saturday.  Hope to hear from you all soon!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:31:10 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2010, 06:46:55 PM
looks like a couple of the experts are picking W&L.. I'm not sure what to expect., but I know historically Thomas More has prided thsemselves on stopping the run... and the team speed on defense is very very good.  I'm assuming that W&L has great team speed as well, so I think the difference makers in this game are the TMC defensive ends... Volker and Smith... they are very good (they're the ones that Sirrianni at W&J loves), BUT haven't seen the option in a game yet this season.  They see it from the spread in practice, as TMC runs it..  If they have a big day, they'll allow Gramke and the other LBs to scrapeand hopefully force your QB to pitch outside where its one on one with the DBs. 

Offensively, Thomas MOre will get big plays.  I just really hope they start fast and make W&L uncomfortable.  In the 1-2 start, did W&L have to go away from the option or is it boom or bust?--we'll see....   Frankly, facing the option scares me... TMC could big play the Generals to death, but if they don't stop the option, its going to be a see-saw affair.

A couple experts picking against TMC this year hasn't meant they're going to lose, and I sure hope it doesn't start this week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: dc_has_been on November 19, 2010, 01:29:14 PM
Good luck tomorrow to the Saints!  Handle W&L and put the critics to rest!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: umhb2001 on November 20, 2010, 04:17:51 PM
First time poster on this board and looking forward to Thomas Moore next week. Havent' done any research yet on your team, so please give me some info.

What can I say about the Cru today...they were salty. Came out ready to play and defended the run and pass very well. The QB was on his horse all day long.

QD, our SR RB, came ready to play behind a dominant OL. He didn't even take a snap in the second half due to the score, but our backups also played very well.   

Looking forward to y'all next week. Let me know if you are coming and need some insight on good food in the area.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2010, 04:52:33 PM
Thomas More came out much the same way today.  The defense played very well early and the offense scored early, as they have this season.  Thomas More ran the ball 66 times today for 432 yards.  They have a very good inside runner in Haydon and speed on the outside in Cruz, Rauch and Owens.  The receivers are big and rangy and QB Kues has come into his own running the spread.  They can throw, run for power and have the speed with Owens to make people miss.  Should be a great game next weekend in Belton. 

I really thought this was a good test for MHB's running attack, the defense played assignment football and eventhough they gave up 200+ yards on the ground, it was mostly after the game had been decided.  They outmatched W&L in athleticism and speed... and were able to get off the blocks. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: umhb2001 on November 21, 2010, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2010, 04:52:33 PM
I really thought this was a good test for MHB's running attack, the defense played assignment football and eventhough they gave up 200+ yards on the ground, it was mostly after the game had been decided.  They outmatched W&L in athleticism and speed... and were able to get off the blocks. 

Confused with this statement. Did you mean CNU?

Good info on your team. Sounds like it should be a good matchup. Our secondary struggled early on in the year, giving up huge numbers. But they have done better in recent weeks, admitadly against weaker teams in our division, but better none the less. Our run D is always amazing. Our team speed is our strength, as guys fly to the ball. They bring the wood, too. Our WR's are also big and physical. Top two are 6-6, one being a transfer from Oklahoma St. University. Our special teams is also very good. PR and KR can bring the ball back, and our FG defense has historically been tough; our first TD came off of a block and run back for 6 on Saturday.

Looking forward to the game. Will you be here?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2010, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 21, 2010, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2010, 04:52:33 PM
I really thought this was a good test for MHB's running attack, the defense played assignment football and eventhough they gave up 200+ yards on the ground, it was mostly after the game had been decided.  They outmatched W&L in athleticism and speed... and were able to get off the blocks.  

Confused with this statement. Did you mean CNU?

Good info on your team. Sounds like it should be a good matchup. Our secondary struggled early on in the year, giving up huge numbers. But they have done better in recent weeks, admitadly against weaker teams in our division, but better none the less. Our run D is always amazing. Our team speed is our strength, as guys fly to the ball. They bring the wood, too. Our WR's are also big and physical. Top two are 6-6, one being a transfer from Oklahoma St. University. Our special teams is also very good. PR and KR can bring the ball back, and our FG defense has historically been tough; our first TD came off of a block and run back for 6 on Saturday.

Looking forward to the game. Will you be here?

They sound like mirror images... TMC has some good size in the secondary.  Hopefully we have enough misdirection to keep your team off balance.  

I meant MHB... I think it was a good test on Saturday of TMC's discipline...

Unfortunately, I won't be headed to Belton... too close to Thanksgiving and have some other chit coming up that requires time out of the office.  I'll be watching on my computer and hoping I get a shot to head to Delaware next weekend.  One of us has to knock off Wesley.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: umhb2001 on November 23, 2010, 10:25:01 AM
In looking at your conference, it doesn't look overly competitive. We have one common opponent in W&J, and we've handled ten in the past. Were any of the other schools considered for the play-offs? What do you feel was a turning point in your season?

Ours had to be week one, in my opinion. Down by 19 at the half, we stormed back in the secod to beat WLac. Amazing comeback for us, and this propelled us into the season that was tumultuous. Sat should be interesting. Looking forward to it!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Toby Taff on November 23, 2010, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 23, 2010, 10:25:01 AM
In looking at your conference, it doesn't look overly competitive. We have one common opponent in W&J, and we've handled ten in the past. Were any of the other schools considered for the play-offs? What do you feel was a turning point in your season?

Ours had to be week one, in my opinion. Down by 19 at the half, we stormed back in the secod to beat WLac. Amazing comeback for us, and this propelled us into the season that was tumultuous. Sat should be interesting. Looking forward to it!!
I think the turning point was the int to secure the win against LC.  Up to that point every game was a cat fight.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kelly Boggs on November 23, 2010, 03:59:52 PM
I agree, Toby.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 23, 2010, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 23, 2010, 10:25:01 AM
In looking at your conference, it doesn't look overly competitive. We have one common opponent in W&J, and we've handled ten in the past. Were any of the other schools considered for the play-offs? What do you feel was a turning point in your season?

Ours had to be week one, in my opinion. Down by 19 at the half, we stormed back in the secod to beat WLac. Amazing comeback for us, and this propelled us into the season that was tumultuous. Sat should be interesting. Looking forward to it!!

Outside of W&J and Waynesburg, it hasn't been competitive... but, Thomas More has won the games they were supposed to the last 3 year in conference play.  The turning point was in the 9th game against Waynesburg when Thomas More drove the field with under a minute left and scored via a TD pass with under a minute left to win 14-10.  If W&J hadn't lost to Delaware Valley, they'd have been a POOL C consideration. 

That said, the defense has been really good the last 3 years --- but I feel this is the fastest and most aggressive defense they have had with Hilvert at the helm.  Its going to be a really big test on Saturday and I know they are looking forward to it. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2010, 07:04:22 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 23, 2010, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 23, 2010, 10:25:01 AM
In looking at your conference, it doesn't look overly competitive. We have one common opponent in W&J, and we've handled ten in the past. Were any of the other schools considered for the play-offs? What do you feel was a turning point in your season?

Ours had to be week one, in my opinion. Down by 19 at the half, we stormed back in the secod to beat WLac. Amazing comeback for us, and this propelled us into the season that was tumultuous. Sat should be interesting. Looking forward to it!!

Outside of W&J and Waynesburg, it hasn't been competitive... but, Thomas More has won the games they were supposed to the last 3 year in conference play.  The turning point was in the 9th game against Waynesburg when Thomas More drove the field with under a minute left and scored via a TD pass with under a minute left to win 14-10.  If W&J hadn't lost to Delaware Valley, they'd have been a POOL C consideration. 

That said, the defense has been really good the last 3 years --- but I feel this is the fastest and most aggressive defense they have had with Hilvert at the helm.  Its going to be a really big test on Saturday and I know they are looking forward to it. 
If W&J had beaten the MAC champion, a regionally ranked (in-region) foe, then yes, W&J is likely in as a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: umhb2001 on November 23, 2010, 10:07:41 PM
Sounds good. I think it will be a tougher game, and I feel the LC game and the HSU game will prepare us well for this; not to mention the hard fought WisLC game as well. Getting excited. Picked up my tickets today. Let's go!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2010, 01:40:45 AM
With a .491 SOS, W&J would have been identical to Pacific Lutheran and Coe and Rowan. I don't think anyone can state with any certainty that W&J would have gotten in.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 24, 2010, 10:49:39 AM
"a Pool C consideration"
"likely in"

Nobody stated "with any certainty" they would be in.

And, jus to beat you to it, HAD W&J beaten Del Val OR TMC and gotten in, they've been summarily dispatched from the tournament in the opening round, though they would NOT have been sent to the MOUNT again this year.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

D3Football.com (and Pat Coleman's leadership) are things for which I am very thankful!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2010, 11:54:48 AM
I equate "likely" with "any certainty" Bob, but thanks for your sarcasm. We've missed you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 24, 2010, 02:15:55 PM
Like anybody who's followed D-III for any length of time, I knew when W&J lost at Thomas More that it was all over but the tears running down the cheek this season. 

When you've had something nearly every year for the past 25 and you know 3 weeks in that you're not going to have it, tough to keep interest, especially with competing interests clamoring for your attention...

Of course, it seems like I have become the dark cloud---
W&J eliminated (for all intents and purposes) after three weeks.
Washington High (what they lack in age they made up for with inexperience) plays toughest AA schedule and loses 5 of first 6...
Cal U (D-II), three straight to national semifinals, loses at Mercyhurst, struggles to beat IUP, then gets bounced by Bloom.
Thomas Jefferson High (13 straight to district semifinals) gets dispatched unceremoniously by 1st-year school.
Steelers embarrass themselves on national tv AT New Orleans and home v. New England.  Then, Ben gets sucker-punched, and NOT ONE TEAMMATE does a damn thing about it.

Time to get some yard work done....

Happy Thanksgiving all, and Pat, special thanks for what you do---for all of us!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MCSID on December 02, 2010, 01:28:21 PM
D3 fans can watch the D3 Senior Classic Live or Archived at: http://www.knoxivi.com/d3classic (http://www.knoxivi.com/d3classic)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 31, 2010, 11:40:31 PM
Happy New Year, friends.

Looking forward already to a great 2011 D-III Football Season!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 22, 2011, 01:52:11 PM
*crickets*
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 15, 2011, 09:51:57 PM
Is that the St Vincent practice facility that is being used by the Steelers that one sees in the August 8th Sports Illustrated?   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Outsider14 on August 16, 2011, 07:26:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 15, 2011, 09:51:57 PM
Is that the St Vincent practice facility that is being used by the Steelers that one sees in the August 8th Sports Illustrated?   :)

Yes, sir. Not a bad deal. Plus, free advertising!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bleedpurple on August 26, 2011, 04:16:49 PM
ANYONE INTERESTED IN BEING PART OF THE 2011 TOP 25 FAN POLL, PLEASE SEND ME A MESSAGE WITH YOUR CURRENT EMAIL ADDRESS. Now that Kickoff is out, I'd like to get our first poll out by the middle of next week.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gordonmann on September 07, 2011, 11:45:52 AM
I'm headed to W&J for the Presidents-Del Val game.  Any local eating establishments I should visit?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 08, 2011, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on September 07, 2011, 11:45:52 AM
I'm headed to W&J for the Presidents-Del Val game.  Any local eating establishments I should visit?
Sam & Eddies Southside Restaurant is just across South Main Street from Cameron Stadium.  Good eats.
Union Grill is about three blocks north on South Main Street.  Good eats, a little tough to get in sometimes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: gordonmann on September 10, 2011, 11:42:27 PM
Thanks for the tip, Bob.  I enjoyed a nice greek chicken pasta dish at Sam & Eddies this afternoon.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2011, 07:10:44 AM
Big game this week in Washington PA --- and crickets in here??? 

I expect to see some scoring on Saturday... two teams totalling between 42-55 points.  Hopefully TMC's defense is up to the challenge again.  It will be very interesting to see what W&J does when they have to kick the ball.  Hanover started the game by kicking straight out of bounds --- TMC has only been kicked to 3 times on kickoffs this young season.. On Saturday after Owens returned his 2nd punt for a TD on the year (a 73 yard return with some really great moves), Geneva punted out of bounds the rest of the game --- a few times it resulted in great field position.

Another thing you will see --- TMC is throwing the ball effectively.  They are completing almost 72% of their passes for nearly 250 yards a game...while Haydon is averaging 7.5 yards a carry on the ground.  However, W&J will be one of the best defenses TMC sees this year.  Thomas More knows what challenges await them this week.  They need to play fast, play hard and not let anything with the refereeing distract them.  Gramke, Booker and Autenreib need to have big games for them defensively.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: 70_dc_alum on September 20, 2011, 08:20:00 AM
Big game this week...Loved playing in Washington PA.  W&J used to get the guys on our team jacked with all of the pregame smack talk...not that it helped us! 

If anyone is looking I am hiring a sales JR position in Pittsburgh.  Someone to team with one of my Sr sales guys telling technology to places like PNC/Highmark/Bayer.  I know the drive a football player has to thought I would reach out to the boards in Pitt.  I would hire saintsfan but we all know part of his brain is mush thanks to the picture that Pat and company find a way to post at least 1x a year!!  Hit me with a personal message if interested.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2011, 09:34:51 AM
I think you said that earlier but actually, I'm pretty sure we haven't used that photo other than on the 1999 All-American page.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: 70_dc_alum on September 20, 2011, 10:19:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2011, 09:34:51 AM
I think you said that earlier but actually, I'm pretty sure we haven't used that photo other than on the 1999 All-American page.

I thought it was part of that all decade team team you did  a few years ago too, but I could be crazy.  I just know I have busted Kevin's chops a few times about it!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2011, 10:29:45 PM
It could be but that would only be three uses in 13 years. :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2011, 06:44:01 AM
thats funny.. I'm glad you still have it, Pat.  I actually have sent that article out to some customers and potentials this week.  Its helped me land some new business. 

70s... I'm glad you guys didn't hire me this winter.  I wouldn't have met the lady if you did -- she hired me where I am now.  Just sayin'..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2011, 06:46:43 AM
BTW --- Pat, when are you coming back through or to Cincinnati???  Maybe you should come for the Bridge Bowl at MSJ this year??  The guys over at Dickmann's were asking when you are coming back ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on September 24, 2011, 04:50:28 PM
Same as it ever was....same as it ever was...same as it ever was.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: formerd3db on October 02, 2011, 08:32:44 AM
Hey, what's up with Geneva?  Two years ago, they came in with a storm, last year 5-5, this year no wins so far.  They seem to get great attendance as the first game this year against Frostburg St. had 5600+.  Just curious.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 04, 2011, 09:06:17 AM
Quote from: formerd3db on October 02, 2011, 08:32:44 AM
Hey, what's up with Geneva?  Two years ago, they came in with a storm, last year 5-5, this year no wins so far.  They seem to get great attendance as the first game this year against Frostburg St. had 5600+.  Just curious.

I've wondered the same, although it doesn't really affect any of the teams that I'm a "fan" of...it does seem puzzling.  I know they may have had some scholarship holdovers in 2007-08, but I still thought that Geneva would be a factor in the PAC race (or at least a consistent .500-plus team) even after those guys were gone.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
Link (http://bearsports.wustl.edu/Sports/Content/Pages/fb12-13-11.aspx)

CMU and CRWU will affiliate with the Pres AC in Fall 2015.

Chicago and Wash U will affiliate with the SAA.

Thanks to Just Bill for the link.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 13, 2011, 01:18:35 PM
Eventually the PAC fans will get wind of the news.

SaintsFAN is one of the few regular posters here, I see, along with a few stray W+J folks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 01:48:41 PM
Had wind of it yesterday, Tartan...just not all that exciting news.

Welcome back, CMU & CWRU, I guess.
Along with them comes an unbalanced schedule (not playing everybody in the league--translation:  trouble in AQ qualifying decisions).
Everybody will play 8 conference games, including the one designated "Rivalry Week" game...Thomas More does not participate in that...

Hopefully, there'll be another addition, brining the PAC to 12 teams, split into 2 divisions each playing 1 non-conference, 3 cross-over, and 5 in-conference games prior to the final week, Conference championship and additional cross over game.  At least, that's what I'd like to see.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 01:48:41 PM
Had wind of it yesterday, Tartan...just not all that exciting news.

Welcome back, CMU & CWRU, I guess.
Along with them comes an unbalanced schedule (not playing everybody in the league--translation:  trouble in AQ qualifying decisions).
Everybody will play 8 conference games, including the one designated "Rivalry Week" game...Thomas More does not participate in that...

Hopefully, there'll be another addition, brining the PAC to 12 teams, split into 2 divisions each playing 1 non-conference, 3 cross-over, and 5 in-conference games prior to the final week, Conference championship and additional cross over game.  At least, that's what I'd like to see.
Or Thomas More can begin to look at the HCAC.  TMC has fulfilled its role as an "interim" to get the Pool A bid, while Geneva and St Vincent were getting on board.

Certainly would save on the travel budget...

Are the mission and vision issues with Thomas More and the HCAC a non-starter?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 03:56:14 PM
I believe Thomas More tried the HCAC before and was soundly rebuffed....

I can't believe that TMC is still in the PAC with the travel, etc....
Of course, winning (multiple sports having significant conferenece success) makes it a lot easier to deal with travel....

Other than the fun of watching CMU crawl back to the PAC to help them out of the scheduling pickle, this announcement was kind of a yawner....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 04:58:41 PM
CMU took off from the PAC after the 1989 season because, their words, "CMU and W&J are heading in different directions."

Since that time, I think W&J has made the NCAA tournament 16 times, CMU 2-3.  And W&J's berths, the overwhelming majority of them at least, were through At-Large (Pool B) selection, the same pool that CMU would/could have been chosen from.

Now, having seen Pool B continually shrinking, and no Pool C berths forthcoming, having chewed fingernails to the bone and being left out, plus the NCAC dropping their scheduling arrangement with the UAA, CMU and CWRU were stuck in a pickle vat.  And the escape hatch required CMU to go in the same direction as their former rival, W&J...

Sometimes, what you get to eat are your own old, moldy, dusty, crusty words...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 13, 2011, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 04:58:41 PM
CMU took off from the PAC after the 1989 season because, their words, "CMU and W&J are heading in different directions."

Since that time, I think W&J has made the NCAA tournament 16 times, CMU 2-3.  And W&J's berths, the overwhelming majority of them at least, were through At-Large (Pool B) selection, the same pool that CMU would/could have been chosen from.

Now, having seen Pool B continually shrinking, and no Pool C berths forthcoming, having chewed fingernails to the bone and being left out, plus the NCAC dropping their scheduling arrangement with the UAA, CMU and CWRU were stuck in a pickle vat.  And the escape hatch required CMU to go in the same direction as their former rival, W&J...

Sometimes, what you get to eat are your own old, moldy, dusty, crusty words...

Bob, do you have an attribution for your CMU/W&J quote? 

Let's hope the PAC doesn't consult with the NCAC on how to make a non-round-robin schedule, unless it is learn what not to do.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 09:11:04 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on December 13, 2011, 08:46:53 PM
Bob, do you have an attribution for your CMU/W&J quote? 

Let's hope the PAC doesn't consult with the NCAC on how to make a non-round-robin schedule, unless it is learn what not to do.
ADL, I will have find it, though will take me some time to dig through stuff back to 1988-89...

The Exec. said that the PAC will use the Big 10 model, what they did after the admission of Penn State and prior to admission of Nebraska...we'll see exactly how that works out.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 13, 2011, 09:19:48 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 01:48:41 PM
Along with them comes an unbalanced schedule (not playing everybody in the league--translation:  trouble in AQ qualifying decisions).  Everybody will play 8 conference games, including the one designated "Rivalry Week" game...Thomas More does not participate in that...

Hopefully, there'll be another addition, brining the PAC to 12 teams, split into 2 divisions each playing 1 non-conference, 3 cross-over, and 5 in-conference games prior to the final week, Conference championship and additional cross over game.  At least, that's what I'd like to see.

Despite your axe to grind with CMU, I agree with most of your statement here.  I think that the unbalanced schedule will be a PITA (see what's happened in the NCAC a few times) and I agree that it would be nice to do a two-division, conference-championship setup.

Re: your apparent disdain for CMU's old decision to leave the PAC:

Yes, I know that the CMU coaching staff is still the same as it was in 1989, but let's be fair here.  The AD from back then is long gone.  The University president is long gone.  The kids on the current CMU team weren't even born yet.  Think maybe it's time to let that one go?

While you might be somewhat pessimistic about the quality of play that CWRU and CMU will bring to the league, it's worth noting that in the past six years the two schools have managed four playoff berths and two playoff wins, and they've competed just fine against most PAC schools (you know that CMU did beat the same Grove City team that beat W & J this year, right?).  I think it's pretty safe to assume that CMU and CWRU will slide in somewhere in the middle echelon of the conference.  As programs, they're certainly at least EQUAL to Waynesburg, St. Vincent, Westminster, Geneva, Bethany, Thiel, Grove City.  Thomas More and W & J are the only PAC teams that have accomplished appreciably more than CMU/CWRU over the last six years.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 09:44:54 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 13, 2011, 09:19:48 PM
Yes, I know that the CMU coaching staff is still the same as it was in 1989, but let's be fair here.  The AD from back then is long gone.  The University president is long gone.  The kids on the current CMU team weren't even born yet.  Think maybe it's time to let that one go?

While you might be somewhat pessimistic about the quality of play that CWRU and CMU will bring to the league, it's worth noting that in the past six years the two schools have managed four playoff berths and two playoff wins, and they've competed just fine against most PAC schools (you know that CMU did beat the same Grove City team that beat W & J this year, right?).  I think it's pretty safe to assume that CMU and CWRU will slide in somewhere in the middle echelon of the conference.  As programs, they're certainly at least EQUAL to Waynesburg, St. Vincent, Westminster, Geneva, Bethany, Thiel, Grove City.  Thomas More and W & J are the only PAC teams that have accomplished appreciably more than CMU/CWRU over the last six years.
Your analysis on CMU/CWRU likely positioning is probably a little lower than where I would put them.  The recent manifestations of CWRU & CMU will be in the top-shelf battles for the PAC championship on a regular basis. 

And, yes, I know full well that THIS year's CMU beat THIS year's Grove City that beat THIS year's W&J squad.  Congratulations.  You know that the 2000, 2004 and 2008 Grove City teams that W&J beat (along with every other year in between them) beat the Tartans, right?  Big deal.  That, and $2.23 will get me my jumbo coffee with cream at Donut Connection in the morning.

The statement I quoted was a clear and intentional smack at W&J on CMU's way out the door, whether it was the coach or AD.  The President is gone, AD (Jim Banner) is gone.  Coach is still there.  And, I just find it ironic that CMU needed W&J & the PAC now 22 years after throwing them a backhand to the face.  You know the old saying:  Be careful what you say.  You may have to eat it some time down the road.  Chomp. Chomp.  Perhpas a little mustard or mayo would help.

By the way, I spent a decent amount of time on the CMU campus when my oldest brother was working on his Math & Comp. Sciences BS degrees.  Enjoyed the good-natured poking at being from the home of W&J, etc... But when it comes from an official of the university, that's a whole different matter.  That's all.

I'm looking forward to the resumption of the rivalry and looking forward to both CMU & CWRU coming back, and hopeful that the League will add another school to get to what seems, to me, to be an ideal setup.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 13, 2011, 10:20:02 PM
Does anyone know if week eleven cross-over games beyond a championship are permitted by the NCAA?  I'm not aware of any conference doing that now.   Bob is that what you were suggesting by the "additional cross over game?"  What we used to call position night in my old bowling leagues.

Some of the NEFC teams schedule ten games and can still play an eleventh game in championship game.  So you could have two OOC games [CMU and CWRU would want that], but no open dates.

Would CWRU be able to join the ECAC and have a shot at one of those last chance bowl games?

Perhaps Allegheny will get tired of trips to Indiana and return to the PAC; that would be ten teams for all other sports and twelve for football.

Neutral site for the championship, YSU?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on December 13, 2011, 10:20:02 PM
Does anyone know if week eleven cross-over games beyond a championship are permitted by the NCAA?  I'm not aware of any conference doing that now.   Bob is that what you were suggesting by the "additional cross over game?"  What we used to call position night in my old bowling leagues.

Some of the NEFC teams schedule ten games and can still play an eleventh game in championship game.  So you could have two OOC games [CMU and CWRU would want that], but no open dates.

Would CWRU be able to join the ECAC and have a shot at one of those last chance bowl games?

Perhaps Allegheny will get tired of trips to Indiana and return to the PAC; that would be ten teams for all other sports and twelve for football.

Neutral site for the championship, YSU?
The NEFC plays its 10 games in the first 10 weeks of the season.

The 11th week conference championship is permissible.  The NEFC does have ECAC post-season games for those teams who qualify and wish to compete, e.g., Endicott versus Mount Ida.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 14, 2011, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 09:44:54 PM
The statement I quoted was a clear and intentional smack at W&J on CMU's way out the door, whether it was the coach or AD.  The President is gone, AD (Jim Banner) is gone.  Coach is still there.  And, I just find it ironic that CMU needed W&J & the PAC now 22 years after throwing them a backhand to the face. 

That's exactly my point - it was TWENTY-TWO years ago.  In all likelihood, there will not be a SINGLE player on either roster next year that was even born when the aforementioned quote occurred.  I played for CMU from 2004-07 and certainly never heard a peep about "looking down" on W & J while I was there, academically or athletically.  In fact, as we awaited our playoff destination in 2006, it was widely assumed (within our team) that we would play the Presidents, and we were genuinely excited about the opportunity to prove ourselves against what was then a consistent powerhouse in the Division III ranks.  I'm glad that it worked out the way it did - winning our first-rounder against Millsaps at home remains the single biggest highlight of my collegiate career - but I would have been equally excited to play the Presidents.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2011, 09:44:54 PM
I'm looking forward to the resumption of the rivalry and looking forward to both CMU & CWRU coming back, and hopeful that the League will add another school to get to what seems, to me, to be an ideal setup.

Wholeheartedly agree here.  The 11-team arrangement will be a bit awkward.  In an effort to make this a more productive discussion, who might be a potential 12th candidate?  Most likely, it will have to be a team that we "steal" from another conference.

I see one very logical candidate - Allegheny - but it might be difficult to poach them from the NCAC.  The Gators would be an ideal geographic fit, a decent competitive fit, and they've played a number of PAC schools (counting CMU/CWRU) for the last couple years.  Bob, you'll know this - wasn't Allegheny a former PAC member as well?

Wesley's looking for a home, and they would be a doable road trip for the PAC schools, but I'd be surprised if that came through.  Besides, Wesley would kick the crap out of everyone in the PAC.

Maybe Defiance from the HCAC?  Or perhaps TMC's rival, Mount St. Joseph?  I know that you've mentioned that Thomas More has been stiff-armed when they tried to join the HCAC - what if the PAC invited an HCAC member?  MSJ might be attractive since they're already TMC's rivalry game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 14, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
ExTartan, I don't see the PAC unanimously voting to add either Wesley or MSJ.  Not for competitive reasons but rather for the sheer economics of it.  Those are overnight trips, long ones and with TMC already in, that's more than what the Pres.Council would choose to do NOW if they had their druthers....

While I clearly and totally get your "22 years ago" point, it's always easier to "let it go" when you're the one throwing the backhand...
I haven't mentioned that quote on these boards before (at least, I don't remember doing so)...but I do remember it and it is ironic the situation we're all in now...that's all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 14, 2011, 11:04:35 AM
Well, as a proud CWRU Spartan, (Class of 1994), I'm looking forward to the start of PAC play in 2014.  If nothing else, it'll be fun competing for an "automatic" playoff bid.

Given that Case and Western Reserve were both FOUNDING members of the PAC, it's only natural that CWRU would come back home.

Ideally, we'll have seasons in which we win BOTH the UAA and PAC titles, since football competition will continue to be sponsored by the UAA.  We'll play 8 conference games annually, including CMU, and our other two games will be against our remaining UAA football rivals, Wash U. and Chicago.

GO SPARTANS!!!

GO PAC!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 14, 2011, 12:00:34 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 14, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
ExTartan, I don't see the PAC unanimously voting to add either Wesley or MSJ.  Not for competitive reasons but rather for the sheer economics of it.  Those are overnight trips, long ones and with TMC already in...

I know they're not perfect - just spitballing. 
IMHO, Allegheny would be the best fit.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 14, 2011, 01:40:22 PM
ExTartan, Allegheny was a previous PAC member (joined in 1958, left in 1983).

PAC Timeline
1955  Formation of PAC:  Western Reserve, John Carroll, Case Institute, Wayne State
1958  Added Allegheny, Bethany, Thiel, Washington & Jefferson
1962  Added Ypsilati (Eastern Michigan)
1966  Wayne State withdrew, Ypsilanti withdrew
1968  Added Carnegie-Mellon
1972  Added Hiram
1983  Allegheny withdrew, Case Western Reserve withdrew
1984  Added Grove City
1988  John Carroll withdrew
1989  Carnegie-Mellon withdrew, Hiram withdrew
1990  Added Waynesburg
1996  Added Alfred
1998  Alfred withdrew
2000  Added Westminster (PA)
2005  Added Thomas More
2006  Added St. Vincent
2007  Added Geneva, Chatham
2011  Added Carnegie-Mellon, Case Western Reserve (football only)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Upstate on December 14, 2011, 04:47:58 PM
Someone just posted on the E8 board in the East Region that Thomas More is traveling to Rochester to open up vs St. John Fisher and then Fisher is traveling to W&J in week 2!

Back to back PAC games for us!

Can any TM or W&J fans confirm or tell me anything about them?

What does TM have coming back from this year? They've won 31 games the past 3 years so they look to be a very, very good team!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 14, 2011, 05:06:53 PM
SaintsFAN will give you the best lowdown on TMC, and Bob's your man for W+J information.  Nice to see some "marquee" nonconference matchups (given that SJF, TMC, and W+J are all generally playoff contenders) spanning across different regions.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 14, 2011, 05:28:00 PM
Saturday, Sept. 8, 2012  St. John Fisher at Washington & Jefferson, Cameron Stadium, Park Avenue, Washington, PA  15301
Saturday, Sept. 14, 2013  Washington & Jefferson at St. John Fisher, Growney Stadium, off East Avenue, Pittsford, NY  14618
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Upstate on December 14, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
So Fisher is playing you guys back to back weeks?

Or are these just tentative dates?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on December 14, 2011, 07:13:56 PM
Look a the dates. Its listed as a home and home by year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Upstate on December 14, 2011, 07:15:44 PM
Quote from: jknezek on December 14, 2011, 07:13:56 PM
Look a the dates. Its listed as a home and home by year.

D'OH...

Thanks...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 15, 2011, 04:31:40 AM
Gang,

Out of curiosity, did either Case Tech OR Western Reserve ever win a PAC football title?  If so, then during which seasons?

Could someone who is "in the know" please let me know!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 15, 2011, 04:39:03 AM
Never mind!

I just checked the website!

Western Reserve apparently won THREE PAC titles back in the day.

From what I could tell, CMU has won SEVEN.

Query:  If CWRU wins, will it be our first OR fourth PAC title? 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 15, 2011, 07:13:25 AM
Quote from: JagranSpartan on December 15, 2011, 04:39:03 AM
Never mind!

I just checked the website!

Western Reserve apparently won THREE PAC titles back in the day.

From what I could tell, CMU has won SEVEN.

Query:  If CWRU wins, will it be our first OR fourth PAC title?
Win it first.  Somebody will figure it out then.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 15, 2011, 01:22:12 PM
Bob, as I think more about the CMU remark you brought up, it seems it's sort of a Rorschach test.  You see it as a slap in the face to W&J.  I see the different direction as CMU affiliating with schools more like it, large research universities (no implication of better than W&J, just different).  Of course you haven't detailed the context in which the remark was uttered, which could reveal more of the intent.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 15, 2011, 01:43:25 PM
ADL:
As far as context, it was immediately following 1989 CMU 17-7 win over W&J (at Mt. Lebanon HS).
It was either AD Banner or HC Lackner that said it (working on link/copy/etc)
I was said in direct relation to the football teams/programs.  Period.

IF your assertion is correct, why would CMU continue to play Grove City, Allegheny, Bethany, Thiel?
The Tartans continued to play schools like Juniata, Franklin & Marshall, recently Westminster...
I wasn't aware of that any of those schools were "large research universities"....

Again, I'm glad CMU is back in the PAC for football.  I think it's been ridiculous that W&J & CMU could be this close and never play football.
Jim Banner's been gone a long time.  John Luckhardt's been gone a long time.  The presidents of both schools (at that time of the last meeting--1989) have been gone a long time.  Let's play.

But that doesn't mean that the slap didn't happen.  I'm fine moving forward.  I just don't forget/dismiss/disregard that it happened.  And I don't miss the irony of CMU needing help in the Big Picture that is D-III athletics now.  That's all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on December 15, 2011, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 15, 2011, 01:43:25 PM
As far as context, it was immediately following 1989 CMU 17-7 win over W&J (at Mt. Lebanon HS).
It was either AD Banner or HC Lackner that said it (working on link/copy/etc)
I was said in direct relation to the football teams/programs.  Period.

If it was said with regards to football, do you think CMU was saying they were better than W&J?  Why would they?  W&J was very successful in the PAC in the mid to late 80s.  If you think they were saying that W&J was too good for them to be playing, why would they say that after a win?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Desertraider on December 16, 2011, 02:03:44 PM
I have been watching ESPN2 all day and the ticker at the bottom for NCAAF has the Div.1 FCS semi-finals with times - but nothing on the game tonight. Thanks for nothing ESPN. Even if you are not a fan of either team make it a D3 football event. Remember that one day your team will be in the Stagg and you will want networks to cover it - lets give them some ratings so that can happen. If you don't watch the game thats fine - just turn it on. Maybe if the ratings are decent ESPN will stop moving the game to friday (a TV dead zone!) or moving to a smaller ESPN network so they can show some damn Poker tournament! Even if you not a fan of the teams playing - we are all fans of DIII football!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Buzz on December 21, 2011, 11:36:50 AM
Big news out of Defiance College, with the hiring of Thomas More's offensive coordinator, Brian Sheehan, as the new head coach for the Yellow Jackets. Full release up on the DC site with an introduction video from Sheehan - http://www.defianceathletics.com/news/default/86/1876/
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 21, 2011, 07:10:01 PM
Apparently TMC coaches are welcome in the HCAC even if the team may not be.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Raider 68 on January 11, 2012, 10:27:49 AM
Will 2012 be the year that W & J makes a run for the title or not? :-\
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 11, 2012, 11:45:35 AM
I just don't see it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 23, 2012, 07:19:22 PM
CWRU future schedules thru 2017

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future_jv

W&J and TMC on for 2014 and 2015, but off 2016 & 2017

The first two years look to be tougher than the next.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 23, 2012, 10:20:56 PM
Shaking off two months of cobwebs here...

CWRU and CMU will participate in this year's PAC football media day on August 2.

http://www.pacathletics.org/Media%20Day%207-11-2012.pdf
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 24, 2012, 11:19:59 AM
Thomas More will have a new QB as Kues won't be back (left after week 11 -- before the playoffs).  It will be interesting to see what the offense looks like with the new QB and no Kendall Owens in the backfield (or returning kicks).  Luckily for the Saints the cupboard isn't bare at RB as Hayden, Savoy and Rauch return. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 26, 2012, 04:08:51 PM
ANYONE INTERESTED IN BEING PART OF THE 2012 TOP 25 FAN POLL (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7065.msg1434525#msg1434525):
Please send me a PM with your ballot. I'd like to get a preseason poll up by Thursday night.

During the season ballots shall be due by Tuesdays so I can get them up Tuesday night.

Remember, this is just fun and we aren't part of the BCS Formula... yet ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: sjfcards on August 29, 2012, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on July 24, 2012, 11:19:59 AM
Thomas More will have a new QB as Kues won't be back (left after week 11 -- before the playoffs).  It will be interesting to see what the offense looks like with the new QB and no Kendall Owens in the backfield (or returning kicks).  Luckily for the Saints the cupboard isn't bare at RB as Hayden, Savoy and Rauch return.

Any more information available on this years Thomas More team? Fisher is excited to have Thomas More coming to Rochester for week 1.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on September 02, 2012, 10:40:07 AM
We will be previewing the upcoming Hobart-Geneva and Rochester-Thiel match ups tonight at www.inthehuddlle.com at 7:30 pm.  Join us to talk some D3 football!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: footballfan413 on September 08, 2012, 05:21:26 PM
To fans of D-3 football everywhere.  I am honored to have been asked to spread the word regarding a new cancer fund that has been established to help Tom Pattison, UW-W sports broadcaster and founder of www.warhawkfootball.com    I and my family know, all to well, how a cancer diagnosis can be devastating to a families daily lives and finances. Please, consider making even the smallest donation to Tom.

The following is an open letter by Retired UW-W Coach Bob Berezowitz:

Team Tom Cancer Fund Drive established

Once a Warhawk, always a Warhawk are the often spoken words by Tom Pattison, longtime "voice" of the Warhawks. Over the many years of broadcasting UW-Whitewater football, basketball and baseball games on KOOL 106.5 (and prior to that (940 WFAW), Tom has "bled purple" during each one of his broadcasts.

Unfortunately, on May 28, 2012 Tom was diagnosed with advanced stage 2 colon cancer. He underwent colorectal cancer surgery in Fort Atkinson and in the process has developed astronomical hospital and medical bills.

Tom has already gone through the first phase of radiation treatment at the UW Cancer Clinic along with chemotherapy with phase two starting later this month.

Tom has given his heart and soul to Warhawk athletics over his 25 years of living here in southern Wisconsin. He served six years as the president of the UW-Whitewater Quarterback Club and still serves on the club's board of directors.

In 2003 Tom founded Warhawkfootball.com where Warhawk fans, players, former players and parents have been able to view up-to-date Warhawk football news and information 365 days a year. Nearly 1.5 million visitors have clicked onto the Website over the years.

The Website that has been funded entirely by Tom has been a popular "voice" for Warhawk football fans not only locally but around the world.

Well now Tom needs your assistance in his battle with cancer.

With the help and leadership of UW-Whitewater Director of Intercollegiate Athletics Dr. Paul Plinke and former Warhawk football coach Bob Berezowitz and KOOL 106.5 Radio a team has been set up to lead a campaign to raise funds for Tom.

The "Team Tom Cancer Fund" has been established through Commercial Bank in Whitewater and is now accepting donations.

Donations may be sent to: Team Tom Cancer Fund, c/o Commercial Bank, 200 South Freemont St. Whitewater, WI 53190


The fund raising drive will also include Tom Pattison Day at Perkins Stadium on Oct. 6, 2012. More details will be announced shortly.

"I have known Tom for many years while coaching and now in retirement," Berezowitz said. "There is not another person who has given more of himself to help promote UW-Whitewater football. He is always writing articles for both past and present players that are published on his Website.

It is now our turn to say "thank you" for his efforts by considering making a donation to the to assist Tom in his time of need.

Go Warhawks,
Bob Berezowitz
UW-Whitewater Football Coach/Retired
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2012, 12:48:55 PM
Sad day at W&J. Condolences from everyone here at D3sports.com.

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/10/washington-and-jefferson-player-dies
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2012, 02:47:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2012, 12:48:55 PM
Sad day at W&J. Condolences from everyone here at D3sports.com.

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/10/washington-and-jefferson-player-dies

Unbelieveable.  Condolences to the McNerney family and the W&J Football Family.  What a tragic loss.  God Speed #5.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: narch on October 04, 2012, 09:38:37 PM
wow...what a tragedy for the w&j family - having seen mcnerney run all over my monarchs in the opener, i was impressed by his game - sad day for all of college football - my thoughts and prayers are with the entire w&j community, and especially his family
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Raider 68 on October 05, 2012, 01:05:22 PM
Condolences and prayers to the McNerney family and the W&J Football Family.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DE Wesley Fan on October 05, 2012, 06:22:06 PM
My heart goes out to that young man's family and his team.  What a senseless tragedy. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SUADC on October 05, 2012, 08:32:10 PM
My Prayers go out Tim McNerney family, as well as the W&J Family. Literally tears are coming down my eyes...No one should have to go through this.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 07, 2012, 07:36:56 PM
A moment of silence was observed at the Wooster @ CWRU game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2012, 02:28:43 PM
TMC's Autenreib sets the D3 INT record in style, with a 100 yard INT return against Grove City.  Good kid from a good family.  Happy for him and his family.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2012, 02:18:25 PM
It all comes down to one game, Saturday, John F. Wiley Stadium, Waynesburg, PA.

The 2012 PAC Football Championship (and the AQ into the NCAA Division III tourney) goes to the winner.

Washington & Jefferson at Waynesburg University

Looking forward to the day!  Sunny, High of 61.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2012, 07:32:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2012, 02:18:25 PM
It all comes down to one game, Saturday, John F. Wiley Stadium, Waynesburg, PA.

The 2012 PAC Football Championship (and the AQ into the NCAA Division III tourney) goes to the winner.

Washington & Jefferson at Waynesburg University

Looking forward to the day!  Sunny, High of 61.

PAC fans, how does this game play out?  from an outsider it looks like Waynesburg has squeeked by for many of their victories and W&J may be playing its best football now.  what does each team have to do to win.  I saw W&J on video againt Fisher and they should have won that game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2012, 09:15:08 PM
I want to congratulate the Washington and Jefferson Presidents for overcoming the loss of their teammate and brother to clinch a playoff berth in the 2012 Tournament.  Winning the PAC after what they went through and are still going through is a testament to their character.  I'm sure #5 is proud of all of you.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: @d3jason on November 10, 2012, 10:20:31 PM
Ditto that! Great job Presidents!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wesleydad on November 11, 2012, 08:14:31 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2012, 09:15:08 PM
I want to congratulate the Washington and Jefferson Presidents for overcoming the loss of their teammate and brother to clinch a playoff berth in the 2012 Tournament.  Winning the PAC after what they went through and are still going through is a testament to their character.  I'm sure #5 is proud of all of you.

agreed, nice win and good luck in the playoffs.  should have a winnable first round game.  if you get what d3 projects, widener, you certainly can win that one.  they are not very good from what i was today. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FOUR on November 12, 2012, 12:28:38 PM
Good luck to W&J against John Hopkins. Bring it home to the PAC!   8-)

This will be under most people's radar but just wanted to mention the job that GCC's Chris Smith and his players and staff did this season. Predicted to finish 8th (with a measly 79 voting points) they finish 3rd at 5-3 and at the top of the conference in total defense and with the leading rusher (Shane Kaclik, 1098 yards).  The Wolverines did a very nice job up front on both sides of the ball.

Of the three losses, there was 24-17 at W&J, 21-14 at Waynesburg, and 27-0 vs. TMC (without starting QB Brian Pell).  A break here or there and that may have been 6 or 7 wins but nonetheless, a lot closer to 1st place than 9th place.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2012, 04:36:55 PM
Quote from: FOUR on November 12, 2012, 12:28:38 PM
Good luck to W&J against John Hopkins. Bring it home to the PAC!   8-)

This will be under most people's radar but just wanted to mention the job that GCC's Chris Smith and his players and staff did this season. Predicted to finish 8th (with a measly 79 voting points) they finish 3rd at 5-3 and at the top of the conference in total defense and with the leading rusher (Shane Kaclik, 1098 yards).  The Wolverines did a very nice job up front on both sides of the ball.

Of the three losses, there was 24-17 at W&J, 21-14 at Waynesburg, and 27-0 vs. TMC (without starting QB Brian Pell).  A break here or there and that may have been 6 or 7 wins but nonetheless, a lot closer to 1st place than 9th place.

Not to be picky, but they finished fourth. 

1. W&J 7-1*
1. Waynesburg 7-1
3. Thomas More 6-2
4. Grove City 5-3

TMC gets two time first team all-PAC RB Dominique Hayden back from injury next year.  Should be a great year in Crestview Hills.  They got their offseason going with a bang destroying MSJ 75-6.  They owe a couple teams in this conference from games this year. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FOUR on November 12, 2012, 11:04:07 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2012, 04:36:55 PM

Not to be picky, but they finished fourth. 


SaintFAN,  You are absolutely correct.  I cannot count. Should have caught it when I outlined the losses.  My excuse is I played football in the days when they gave you aspirin for concussions.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 13, 2012, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: FOUR on November 12, 2012, 11:04:07 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2012, 04:36:55 PM

Not to be picky, but they finished fourth. 


SaintFAN,  You are absolutely correct.  I cannot count. Should have caught it when I outlined the losses.  My excuse is I played football in the days when they gave you aspirin for concussions.

haha... +K
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: roocru on November 13, 2012, 05:49:19 PM
Quote from: FOUR on November 12, 2012, 11:04:07 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2012, 04:36:55 PM

Not to be picky, but they finished fourth. 


SaintFAN,  You are absolutely correct.  I cannot count. Should have caught it when I outlined the losses.  My excuse is I played football in the days when they gave you aspirin for concussions.

I thought that was what the salt tablets were for!   ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: the_burghboy on November 13, 2012, 09:50:10 PM
I want to also offer my congrats to the W&J team and coaching staff for winning the PAC.  I can only imagine the adversity and emotion they have fought through this year. 

All the best in the playoffs.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 13, 2012, 10:20:35 PM
Congrats to W & J.

Also second the congrats to Grove City on a nice overachieving season. I saw GCC vs. CMU in week 1 and came away impressed.

Finally, for those of you who may not be aware, CMU is playing Waynesburg in an ECAC bowl game this weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BillyRayJimBob on November 15, 2012, 12:28:22 PM
Might any of you protest if a geographically-separated UMU Purple Raider joins the visiting W&J faithful this Saturday ... weather and wife permitting???
After all, UMU/W&J are sort of, kinda, maybe ... something like family/distant cousins, right?!  Albeit, the relationship NEXT Saturday (November 24th) may have a completely different complexion should the Presidents football team and their fans care to join me for the Round 2 game in Alliance!!!

As for this Saturday, I will be the gent wearing purple, and it will NOT be that "Baltiless Raisins" purple, which so many sports inbreeds around this area commonly mistake purple "Mount Union" and "Raiders"-emblazoned apparel to be!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2012, 02:37:02 PM
For a number of years, I was of the opinion that W&J's academic/admission standards made it nearly impossible for the Presidents to return to the level of play enjoyed by their fans for many years.

Yesterday, at Johns Hopkins University, I was shown, undeniably, that that opinion was off the mark.  I have great trouble imagining JHU's academic/admission standards being lower than W&J's and the Blue Jays clearly played at a level that we used to see regularly here in Washington.

Don't get me wrong, making the NCAA's more than 1-2 times in 10 years is an accomplishment of which the college can be proud.  And, perhaps, they are at a level with which they are comfortable, the balance between academics/athletics meets at this intersection.

But I do not want to hear, again, that what JHU is doing can not be done here.  There ARE outstanding athletes interested in playing D-3 football who CAN meet the academic/admission standards of a W&J College.  And I'm look, hopefully, to those players putting on the Red & Black again in the very near future.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mandfense on November 18, 2012, 05:45:36 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2012, 02:37:02 PM
For a number of years, I was of the opinion that W&J's academic/admission standards made it nearly impossible for the Presidents to return to the level of play enjoyed by their fans for many years.

Yesterday, at Johns Hopkins University, I was shown, undeniably, that that opinion was off the mark.  I have great trouble imagining JHU's academic/admission standards being lower than W&J's and the Blue Jays clearly played at a level that we used to see regularly here in Washington.

Don't get me wrong, making the NCAA's more than 1-2 times in 10 years is an accomplishment of which the college can be proud.  And, perhaps, they are at a level with which they are comfortable, the balance between academics/athletics meets at this intersection.

But I do not want to hear, again, that what JHU is doing can not be done here.  There ARE outstanding athletes interested in playing D-3 football who CAN meet the academic/admission standards of a W&J College.  And I'm look, hopefully, to those players putting on the Red & Black again in the very near future.

The difference is Johns Hopkins is a nationally recognized university, meaning they can recruit nationally.  They hardly have any players on their roster from the state of Maryland and reach as far as California, Texas, Florida & Washington.  W&J doesn't have that luxury, despite being a great academic school in its own right.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2012, 08:17:53 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 18, 2012, 05:45:36 PM
[The difference is Johns Hopkins is a nationally recognized university, meaning they can recruit nationally.  They hardly have any players on their roster from the state of Maryland and reach as far as California, Texas, Florida & Washington.  W&J doesn't have that luxury, despite being a great academic school in its own right.
W&J's playoff roster includes players from:
Florida, Ohio, New York, Mass, Conn, WVa, and Pennsylvania
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2012, 08:30:52 AM
Great to see Zach Autenrieb as one of the 10 Finalists for the Gagliardi Trophy.  Thomas More is really going to miss his leadership and on-field ability.  Had a chance to talk with his dad throughout his career.. great family, I'm sure he's very proud of his boy. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on March 28, 2013, 06:27:05 PM
Waynesburg University is mourning the passing of trustee John Wylie, who served then Waynesburg College for many years and for whom the Yellowjackets home football stadium is named.  John Wiley obituary (http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20130327/OBITUARIES/130329333/-1/obituaries)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on June 17, 2013, 12:18:22 PM
Any expectations for the PAC this year? It came down to the last game last year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 18, 2013, 10:31:57 AM
PAC pre-season poll

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2013/8/1/FB_0801132529.aspx

2013 PAC Football Preseason Poll
School (first-place votes) Points 2012 Record (PAC)
1. Washington & Jefferson College (16) 271 8-3 (7-1)
2. Thomas More College (10) 248 7-3 (6-2)
3. Waynesburg University (6) 233 10-1 (7-1)
4. Grove City College 159 6-4 (5-3)
T-5. Bethany College 138 3-7 (3-5)
T-5. Geneva College 138 3-7 (3-5)
7. Westminster College 107 3-6 (2-6)
8. Thiel College 106 3-7 (3-5)
9. Saint Vincent College 40 0-10 (0-8)

Just keeping board alive on life support till next season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 20, 2013, 04:38:58 PM
I perdict

T1)W&J (Presidents win head to head, but they suffer an upset from either Geneva or Westminster)
T1) Waynesburg
3) Grove City
4)Geneva
5) Thomas More
6) Westminster
7)Theil
8) St. Vincent
9) Bethany

I say the PAC sends both W&J and Waynesburg to the playoffs  with Waynesburg making the deeper run.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 20, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
Glad for some conversation.

Waynesburg in the ECAC's perhaps, but I don't see two PAC teams making NCAA playoffs.

And I can't see More out of the top three.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on August 21, 2013, 10:24:02 AM
I see it as:
1. Thomas More College
2. Washington & Jefferson College
3. Waynesburg University
4. Grove City College
5. Geneva College
6. Bethany College 
7. Westminster College
8. Thiel College
9. Saint Vincent College


I think Thomas More College rebounds and wins some key games especially that night game in Washington, PA. Also, it is possible that the PAC could have two teams, depending on the teams that is, because of strength of schedule. If W&J and TM both end up 9-1 with W&J only loss is to TM and TM only loss is to a quality opponent, then it may just happen.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 22, 2013, 11:51:08 AM
I think Thomas More takes a step back and I think within the next year or two Waynesburg becomes the big boy of the PAC with W&J.  When CMU joins I see them being a top 3 team, with the next teir being TM, GCC, Geneva, CW with Westminster having a chance to be in this teir. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 23, 2013, 06:30:30 PM
CWRU has defeated CMU six straight years, what makes you think they should be in a tier above?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2013, 08:25:38 AM
Follow-up on the Tim McNerney murder from last October


Three formally arraigned in W&J student's death (http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20130823/NEWS01/130829746#.UhiltT-2_0U)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 28, 2013, 10:32:55 AM
Quote from: mikefln on August 22, 2013, 11:51:08 AM
I think Thomas More takes a step back and I think within the next year or two Waynesburg becomes the big boy of the PAC with W&J.  When CMU joins I see them being a top 3 team, with the next teir being TM, GCC, Geneva, CW with Westminster having a chance to be in this teir.

The school just hired a new President, who I'm hearing is very athletics friendly.  After a year where they started 1-3 and lost some big players to injury, TMC finished with 6 straight wins.  They get their RB back who was PAC player of the year in 2011 as a sophomore.  They absolutely destroyed their rival in the Bridge Bowl the last time they were on the field.  If you think TMC will step back thats your perogative but I think you're wrong.  I also hope the rest of the league sleeps on the Saints also, but I know they won't --

With all due respect, Preseason polls mean nothing but TMC finishing 5th is truly laughable.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on August 28, 2013, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 23, 2013, 06:30:30 PM
CWRU has defeated CMU six straight years, what makes you think they should be in a tier above?

I'm a CMU alum and even I'm baffled, although it could be just that mike hasn't followed things recently and that there's a little more history between CMU and PAC teams than there is CWRU and PAC teams.  When I was in college we played several different PAC teams - Grove City 4 times, Bethany 4 times, Thiel twice, Westminster once - from the league's lower-middle and won most of them (9-2 overall against the PAC), although we never did play one of the league's power teams and haven't played any PAC team besides Grove City since 2007.  I do think our 2006-2007 teams would have contended for the PAC title and likely finished in the league's top 2-3.  Then again, mike seems to be living in 2006-2007 since he thinks W & J and Waynesburg are the league powers, TMC is going to finish 5th, and Bethany will finish last.

Waynesburg and W & J both should contend for the title along with TMC, but recent history suggests that dismissing TMC is probably a bad idea, mikefl.  I'll grant you that they finished that way in 2012, but as SaintsFAN alludes, TMC should be much improved in 2012.  They get the 2011 PAC player of the year back from a knee injury, they have a sophomore QB that was pressed into action last year and now has seven games under his belt, and they have 18 starters back.  What of that makes you think they're likely to take a step backwards?  Meanwhile, Waynesburg returns 13 starters and their top rusher left the team, and while W & J brings back 15 starters they're hardly a slam dunk to be better than last year.  How you look at this equation and see Waynesburg emerging as the biggest force in the PAC is beyond me.

As for the possibility of a Pool C bid, news flash: Waynesburg went 9-1 last year and was not invited, and there will be fewer Pool C bids this year with the temporary bubble in Pool B eligible teams.  No chance a PAC team comes away with a Pool C this year.

Re: the CMU/CWRU place in the pecking order, I think both CMU and CWRU will be in the league's upper echelon when they join but may not be immediate title contenders.  Hard to say exactly how good everyone will be in two years but I think W & J, Waynesburg, TMC, CMU, and Case Western will be the league's top 5 in some order in most seasons.  Beyond that it's quite difficult because all of the programs have been up at some point and down at others.  I do think Grove City will stay consistently competitive and crack the top 5 at times.

ADL, I'm also seriously hoping that this year CMU can finally end the aforementioned streak. The last time CMU beat Case, I was still lining up at left tackle...you may even have been at the game?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 29, 2013, 03:51:04 AM
I suspect that both CWRU and CMU will regularly finish in the Top half of the PAC, assuming that both maintain their programs at or near their current levels.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 29, 2013, 09:03:28 AM
CWRU should certainly challenge for the title in 2016 since they play neither W&J or TMC.

XTP have you seen CMU's 2014 PAC schedule?  I was not at the last CMU win.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: middlerelief on September 14, 2013, 07:06:07 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 18, 2013, 10:31:57 AM
PAC pre-season poll

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2013/8/1/FB_0801132529.aspx

2013 PAC Football Preseason Poll
School (first-place votes) Points 2012 Record (PAC)
1. Washington & Jefferson College (16) 271 8-3 (7-1)
2. Thomas More College (10) 248 7-3 (6-2)
3. Waynesburg University (6) 233 10-1 (7-1)
4. Grove City College 159 6-4 (5-3)
T-5. Bethany College 138 3-7 (3-5)
T-5. Geneva College 138 3-7 (3-5)
7. Westminster College 107 3-6 (2-6)
8. Thiel College 106 3-7 (3-5)
9. Saint Vincent College 40 0-10 (0-8)

Just keeping board alive on life support till next season.

I know that W&J and Thomas More seem to always be in the hunt for the NCAA birth -- what can you say about the PAA generally relative to other conferences or other programs that may challenge?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 15, 2013, 10:48:04 AM
Last regular season Waynesburg was 9-1, 7-1 in conf and played Carnegie Mellon (6-4, 1-2 UAA) in an ECAC bowl game and escaped with a 28-24 win.

Last season, no team in the bottom five managed more than three wins.  This season Westminster lost its opener to Hiram, ending an eighteen game Hiram losing streak.

Overall, a middle of the pack conference.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Upstate on September 15, 2013, 11:22:45 AM
Any updates on W&J's QB Bliss?

The injury did not look good at all, hoping for the best for him. He's a great QB!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2013, 10:41:33 PM
Is W&J's Bliss still injured? I saw they dropped a close one with Bethany tonight. 

Big game for Thomas More next Saturday night in Washington, PA. TMC held Geneva to 88 total yards today in posting their 3rd shutout of the season, 61-0.  Honestly, it wasn't even that close as the TMC offense, defense and special teams each scored TD's in the 2nd quarter and they led 55-0 at the half.

The offense has been playing well with Hayden back and doing some major damage on the ground. With Gebhardt at QB, defenses have to pick their poison as there are some really good WR/TE's, who make plays.  The story has been defense so far this year, though. They have played fast and tackled well thus far.  Geneva came in averaging 450 yards and 45 points on offense and they were man handled.

Anyone want to talk about TMC falling back out of the top few teams in the PAC?? I think someone said it would be fourth place? They haven't won anything yet- there's a lot of the season to be played, but it's pretty obvious they are pissed off about going 7-3 last year. They've won 10 in a row and will hopefully be ready for a battle next weekend.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 05, 2013, 11:58:33 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on August 21, 2013, 10:24:02 AM
I see it as:
1. Thomas More College
2. Washington & Jefferson College
3. Waynesburg University
4. Grove City College
5. Geneva College
6. Bethany College 
7. Westminster College
8. Thiel College
9. Saint Vincent College


I think Thomas More College rebounds and wins some key games especially that night game in Washington, PA. Also, it is possible that the PAC could have two teams, depending on the teams that is, because of strength of schedule. If W&J and TM both end up 9-1 with W&J only loss is to TM and TM only loss is to a quality opponent, then it may just happen.

See above.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dr. Acula on October 06, 2013, 10:27:28 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2013, 10:41:33 PM
Is W&J's Bliss still injured? I saw they dropped a close one with Bethany tonight. 

Looks like he played last night.  Also looks like W&J gave up 24 points and 400 yds in the first half.  Credit them for making adjustments and making it a game, but that's not good.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2013, 04:07:25 PM
Bethany smacked W&J right square in the mouth and knocked the Presidents askew for a half.  W&J ran the ball just 6 times in the first half (okay, not counting a snap fumble, a scramble for 2 and another for 0).  W&J looked over-matched, and somewhat disinterested!

Second half was different story--ran effectively and commitedly.  Defended better.  Could have won the game but Bliss forced pass into double-coverage in endzone with 30+ seconds to play on SECOND down.

Congrats to Bethany on snapping the 30-game losing streak to W&J.  Last time the Bison beat the Presidents (1982) was 2 years before Mark & I started calling the W&J games...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 07, 2013, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2013, 04:07:25 PM

Congrats to Bethany on snapping the 30-game losing streak to W&J.  Last time the Bison beat the Presidents (1982) was 2 years before Mark & I started calling the W&J games...

...and North Park beats Carthage...

Sign of the end times?   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dr. Acula on October 07, 2013, 04:21:19 PM
Bob, was that box score accurate that the attedance was 900 something??  Is that normal for Bethany?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 07, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
Yes, that's greater than their enrollment.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 08, 2013, 08:14:00 PM
That looks like an accurate estimate.  You gotta remember that Bethany, WV is just 28 minutes from Washington and, being a night game, plenty of WashPa folks in attendance.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 09, 2013, 10:25:49 AM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on October 06, 2013, 10:27:28 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2013, 10:41:33 PM
Is W&J's Bliss still injured? I saw they dropped a close one with Bethany tonight. 

Looks like he played last night.  Also looks like W&J gave up 24 points and 400 yds in the first half.  Credit them for making adjustments and making it a game, but that's not good.

right -- but is he still hobbled?  Guess we'll see Saturday night.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on October 14, 2013, 08:23:40 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2013, 10:41:33 PM
Is W&J's Bliss still injured? I saw they dropped a close one with Bethany tonight. 

Big game for Thomas More next Saturday night in Washington, PA. TMC held Geneva to 88 total yards today in posting their 3rd shutout of the season, 61-0.  Honestly, it wasn't even that close as the TMC offense, defense and special teams each scored TD's in the 2nd quarter and they led 55-0 at the half.

The offense has been playing well with Hayden back and doing some major damage on the ground. With Gebhardt at QB, defenses have to pick their poison as there are some really good WR/TE's, who make plays.  The story has been defense so far this year, though. They have played fast and tackled well thus far.  Geneva came in averaging 450 yards and 45 points on offense and they were man handled.

Anyone want to talk about TMC falling back out of the top few teams in the PAC?? I think someone said it would be fourth place? They haven't won anything yet- there's a lot of the season to be played, but it's pretty obvious they are pissed off about going 7-3 last year. They've won 10 in a row and will hopefully be ready for a battle next weekend.

I don't think TMC was ready for the battle.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 14, 2013, 01:17:56 PM
I'm surprised by the W & J upset of TMC.  Really surprised.  After TMC's demolition of Geneva, I expected TMC to beat W & J comfortably.  I know Geneva's not that great but their offense had been racking up a ton of points, and TMC's total shutodwn of Geneva had me pretty convinced that TMC was ready to reclaim the PAC's top spot.  Now who knows what will happen.

Re: the low attendance at Bethany, yeah, that's pretty typical.  Bethany is a tiny school and it's in the middle of nowhere.  Beautiful campus, actually, but the middle of nowhere.  I remember pulling up for the game there and thinking "Wait, we're here?"
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 15, 2013, 02:18:09 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on October 14, 2013, 08:23:40 AM
I don't think TMC was ready for the battle.
That would appear to be an accurate statement.
Don't know, if at 14-7, TMC thought "we got this" or what.  From there, W&J rolled up 38-7 on the Saints.
When Wiegand ran the kickoff back 92 yards, running away from TMC players, it was over.  Done.  Finished.
And you could see it on the TMC sideline.

Oh, well, those things happen.  Still a lot of football left in the very competitive PAC...
Obviously, this year at least, on any given Saturday...
TMC > Waynesburg, W&J > TMC, Bethany>W&J....Certainly, Bethany>Waynesburg not out of the realm of possible, then TMC>Bethany, and Waynesburg>W&J...might need some CMU/CWRU types to figure out how that all shakes down.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2013, 03:33:23 PM
In the season's final five weekends:

Waynesburg needs to win out and have TMC lose to somebody.
Wash & Jeff needs to win out and have Bethany lost to somebody.
TMC needs to win out and have W&J lose to somebody.

Bethany simply needs to win out, the only one in control of own destiny, at least, that's the way it looks from my vantage point, standing in the second row of my home press box....lol
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 17, 2013, 07:39:02 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2013, 03:33:23 PM
In the season's final five weekends:

Waynesburg needs to win out and have TMC lose to somebody.
Wash & Jeff needs to win out and have Bethany lost to somebody.
TMC needs to win out and have W&J lose to somebody.

Bethany simply needs to win out, the only one in control of own destiny, at least, that's the way it looks from my vantage point, standing in the second row of my home press box....lol

I guess you could somewhat add Geneva to that category.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2013, 09:09:53 PM
Golden Tornadoes in same boat as Waynesburg:

Geneva needs to win out and have TMC lost to somebody.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2013, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2013, 03:33:23 PM
In the season's final five weekends:

Waynesburg needs to win out and have TMC lose to somebody.
Wash & Jeff needs to win out and have Bethany lost to somebody.
TMC needs to win out and have W&J lose to somebody.

Bethany simply needs to win out, the only one in control of own destiny, at least, that's the way it looks from my vantage point, standing in the second row of my home press box....lol

Pretty amazing that Bethany is the only one totally in control of their destiny for now haha.  I think that'll be fairly short-lived, though, and it looks like W & J is in the best position from my vantage point since Bethany has a couple of games left where they clearly won't be favored.  I really thought TMC was going to run away with it this year, but the loss to W & J (especially given how decisive it was) puts an awfully big dent in that.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2013, 10:51:17 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2013, 09:09:53 PM
Golden Tornadoes in same boat as Waynesburg:

Geneva needs to win out and have TMC lost to somebody.

After what I saw when Geneva came to Bank of Kentucky Stadium, I'll venture to say it will be the 8th Wonder of the World if they represent the PAC in the tourney. Anything can happen, but..

I like TM to win out but as you said, they need help. I was out of the country last weekend and didn't see or hear anything while it was going on and was shocked when I was back in the states and turned on my phone. Shocked at the loss and the score. They'll bounce back like they did in the final 6 last year but I know they won't get in without the PAC Qualifier because of that final score.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2013, 03:05:28 PM
TM has quickly taken control in Greenville. 28-7 at the half as Thomas More has rolled up 356 yards of offense in the 1st half.  Thiel scored on a 54 yard run by Josh Potter midway through the 1st Quarter followed by TM running off 21 unanswered to end the half.  The place kicking is still an area of concern as TM missed a 30 yard FG at the end of the half. The defense settled down after Potter 's TD run.

Hayden led all rushers with 140 yards and 3 TDs on 12 carries.
Gebhardt has a game high 164 yards through the air with 1 INT.
Leonard has 6 catches for 113 yards and a TD catch to lead all WRs.

Will be interesting to see how much these guys play in 2nd half as Thiel came in at 1-5.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2013, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2013, 03:05:28 PM
TM has quickly taken control in Greenville. 28-7 at the half as Thomas More has rolled up 356 yards of offense in the 1st half.  Thiel scored on a 54 yard run by Josh Potter midway through the 1st Quarter followed by TM running off 21 unanswered to end the half.  The place kicking is still an area of concern as TM missed a 30 yard FG at the end of the half. The defense settled down after Potter 's TD run.

Hayden led all rushers with 140 yards and 3 TDs on 12 carries.
Gebhardt has a game high 164 yards through the air with 1 INT.
Leonard has 6 catches for 113 yards and a TD catch to lead all WRs.

Will be interesting to see how much these guys play in 2nd half as Thiel came in at 1-5.

And then 2nd half starts with a 75 yard TD pass by Radke followed up by a Genhardt INT returned 37 yards deep into TM territory but defense stiffens on 4th down and gives ball back to the offense. TM has also withstood a Thiel onside kick, forcing a punt.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 26, 2013, 09:48:11 PM
In the season's final three weekends:

Wash & Jeff needs to win out.

TMC needs to win out and have W&J lose to somebody.

Waynesburg needs to win out and have TMC lose TWICE.
Bethany needs to win out and have W&J and Geneva lose.
Geneva needs to win out and have TMC & Waynesburg lose.

At least that's the way it looks....
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2013, 11:06:51 PM
Thanks, Bob!  +1 :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2013, 08:26:52 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 26, 2013, 09:48:11 PM
In the season's final three weekends:

Wash & Jeff needs to win out.

TMC needs to win out and have W&J lose to somebody.

Waynesburg needs to win out and have TMC lose TWICE.
Bethany needs to win out and have W&J and Geneva lose.
Geneva needs to win out and have TMC & Waynesburg lose.

At least that's the way it looks....

W&J won't lose again until the tournament.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2013, 11:49:37 AM
It is entirely possible that Bethany could own wins over Washington & Jefferson, Waynesburg and Thomas More, and NOT earn the PAC AQ...In fact, with yesterday's loss to Thiel, the Bison are eliminated from the race.  That's what happens when you lose early to an expected challenger, Geneva, and late to Westminster (blocked punt for WC's only score in the final 2 minutes) and Thiel (missing PAT's and close in FG's, plus turning the ball over).


W&J clinches berth with home wins over Geneva, Waynesburg
Thomas More clinches berth with win over Bethany plus any W&J loss.
Waynesburg & Geneva, both having already lost to TMC, need help, and I'm not sure if there's enough help to be had.

How would this work:  Bethany>Thomas More, Waynesburg>W&J, W&J>Geneva.  Three way tie TMC, Waynesburg, W&J.  Split with each other, all lost to Bethany, and beat everyone else.  SOS would decide AQ (as I understand it), currently W&J (115th), TMC (158th), Waynesburg (212th).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2013, 04:51:28 PM
I just don't think W&J is going to lose to either team. I saw Geneva in person and think W&J will score 60 on them. It's really not going to be close. W&J just needs to take them seriously for a half and then put in the young guys.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2013, 10:18:23 PM
Best I can figure---

IF Bethany beats Thomas More and W&J tops Geneva, W&J clinches AQ.  Best that TMC & Waynesburg could do is create three-way tie.  W&J has a much better SOS and would win that tie breaker.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2013, 07:19:32 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2013, 04:51:28 PM
I just don't think W&J is going to lose to either team. I saw Geneva in person and think W&J will score 60 on them. It's really not going to be close. W&J just needs to take them seriously for a half and then put in the young guys.

Geneva is a weird team. They have put up some very good offensive performances this season (against suspect defenses, but still, I saw them in person and was quite impressed by their offensive tempo) and I really figured they'd be good enough to score at least a couple times on anyone (even if their defense can't stop anybody).  I know that TMC totally blitzed them on both sides of the ball but that performance looks like a bit of an outlier to me, so I wouldn't judge Geneva based solely on that game, just as I would not judge TMC solely on the W & J loss (which still shocks me the week after Bethany beat W & J).

I do think the Presidents will handle Geneva, but wouldn't expect a one-sided slaughter because TMC crushed Geneva and W & J beat TMC.  I just think you saw about the worst possible game from Geneva and the best possible game from W & J against TMC, but I think the true gulf between those teams is not quite THAT large.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2013, 10:07:49 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 06, 2013, 07:19:32 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2013, 04:51:28 PM
I just don't think W&J is going to lose to either team. I saw Geneva in person and think W&J will score 60 on them. It's really not going to be close. W&J just needs to take them seriously for a half and then put in the young guys.

Geneva is a weird team. They have put up some very good offensive performances this season (against suspect defenses, but still, I saw them in person and was quite impressed by their offensive tempo) and I really figured they'd be good enough to score at least a couple times on anyone (even if their defense can't stop anybody).  I know that TMC totally blitzed them on both sides of the ball but that performance looks like a bit of an outlier to me, so I wouldn't judge Geneva based solely on that game, just as I would not judge TMC solely on the W & J loss (which still shocks me the week after Bethany beat W & J).

I do think the Presidents will handle Geneva, but wouldn't expect a one-sided slaughter because TMC crushed Geneva and W & J beat TMC.  I just think you saw about the worst possible game from Geneva and the best possible game from W & J against TMC, but I think the true gulf between those teams is not quite THAT large.

I get your point but Geneva looked BAD in Crestview Hills that day. Really, really bad. I just can't see them being competitive against W&J with what W&J has on the line.

And yes, Thomas More losing to W&J was a huge shock. I couldn't believe it when I saw the score. I was out of the country so I had no idea what happened. Would LOVE a rematch in the tournament but if TM makes it (a big "if" in my mind as who knows what the committee will make of them when they enter the discussion from the south) they won't be seeded high enough.

It's a really young team - they'll be really tough next season. Especially since they get W&J at home and during the day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2013, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2013, 10:07:49 PM
.... Especially since they get W&J at home and during the day.
Actually, thanks to CWRU & CMU joining the PAC, Thomas More plays AT W&J next year, Oct. 4, and it's a 7 pm kickoff.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2013, 09:22:08 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2013, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2013, 10:07:49 PM
.... Especially since they get W&J at home and during the day.
Actually, thanks to CWRU & CMU joining the PAC, Thomas More plays AT W&J next year, Oct. 4, and it's a 7 pm kickoff.

We love those 7pm games !!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 16, 2013, 10:38:30 PM
Gang,

I'm looking forward to seeing CWRU join the PAC as a football affiliate next season.  This season was a disappointment in some respects, but we at least managed to salvage a winning record, and a 2nd place finish in the UAA.

We'll be looking to replace Erik Olson at QB next season, but Billy Beecher should be able to do the job.  I hope that we'll be able to be competitive, and look forward to discussing the conference race.  Best of luck!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 27, 2014, 04:34:12 PM
2014 Schedules:

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/schedule

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future


SoCal QB reported coming to CWRU:

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/connor-simpson/7wNbg_TqEeKZ5AAmVebBJg/gendersport/football-stats.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfTbz86paJk
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 01, 2014, 09:36:22 PM
http://www.gopresidents.com/schedule.aspx?path=football&
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2014, 08:44:35 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 01, 2014, 09:36:22 PM
http://www.gopresidents.com/schedule.aspx?path=football&
As I see it, 9 conference games for the new 11-team PAC.  Kinda reminds me of the old MAC.  No St Vincent?

Who plays 10 conference games this year?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
Remember when the PAC was a 5-team conference?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 08, 2014, 12:53:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2014, 08:44:35 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 01, 2014, 09:36:22 PM
http://www.gopresidents.com/schedule.aspx?path=football&
As I see it, 9 conference games for the new 11-team PAC.  Kinda reminds me of the old MAC.  No St Vincent?

Who plays 10 conference games this year?

CWRU and CMU only play eight, then WUStL and UChi.

Could be like the bad old days of the NCAC when teams didn't all play the same number of conference games.








Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 08, 2014, 03:51:22 PM
Signing day is pretty meaningless for D3, but there are always a few announcements and faux signings.  The PD reports these commitments:

Alex Habeeb (Avon)  5'9 195 LB   Div II Dist HM
     http://www.hudl.com/athlete/525305/alex-habeeb#
Pete Lemaster (Chardon)  6' 190 LB/DE  Div III Dist 2nd Team
     http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/2626123/highlights/98477377
Anthony Canganelli (Mayfield)  5'9 185  RB/P  '13 DivII Dist 2nd Team P   '12 2nd Team RB
http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/2099571/highlights/102504378

Canganelli looks to be quick, reportedly 4.5/40 and 11.03/100, but tough, also played LB and benches 300 and squats 450.  Looks like he could fill either Sicre or Lapcevic's shoes in 2015.

But the big news, both literally and figuratively, is St Ed LG Gage Blair (6'1 275), a two year starter, has committed to CWRU, despite having offers reported on the St Ed's site from Penn, Davidson, and Hopkins.  http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/676210/highlights/1


From other sources:

Jacob Burke (Johnstown Northridge) RB/LB 6-1 215  Dist IV HM as Jr injuries limited sr year
     http://www.ncsasports.org/football-recruiting/oh/johnstown/northridge-high-school-johnstown/jacob-burke5
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocyMMORLIRE

Another big lineman  Ryan DeMarinis (Westwood MA) '6-2 290
     http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/786753/highlights/77894380

With the SoCal QB previously noted the critical needs of QB, OL, and RB look to be being met early.  There are two more linemen and an All-Ohio QB who have expressed interest, but have yet to commit.

This is the most commitments I have seen this early and Debs, who is typically pessimistic during recruiting is said to be very pleased and thinks there are 4-5 commits who could contribute right away.

I just noticed that the UAA and PAC boards are both on page 213.  Kinda spooky.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on February 16, 2014, 07:46:55 PM
I was in Cleveland this weekend for mother's weekend at my son's fraternity.  Case had it's football banquet and Debs announced that he had 10 commitments so far.  He mentioned that is a rather large number of commitments for this time of year.  He seemed very optimistic.

I really don't know why anyone lives here.  It's cold.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 17, 2014, 01:57:51 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 08, 2014, 12:53:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2014, 08:44:35 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 01, 2014, 09:36:22 PM
http://www.gopresidents.com/schedule.aspx?path=football&
As I see it, 9 conference games for the new 11-team PAC.  Kinda reminds me of the old MAC.  No St Vincent?

Who plays 10 conference games this year?

CWRU and CMU only play eight, then WUStL and UChi.

Could be like the bad old days of the NCAC when teams didn't all play the same number of conference games.

This would still create a problem. The nine remaining teams with nine games each creates 81 results. You need to have an even number of results (a winner and a loser for each game) (CMU and CWRU have 16 results of their own still causing an odd number). This means someone is a) playing 8 conference games, b) playing 10 conference games, or c) like the Midwest Conference did for the past two years, Lawrence played ten conference games but one of them didn't count as conference for LU but did count as conference for the opponent.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 17, 2014, 06:46:33 PM
PAC schools will play 8 conference & 2 non-conference games in 2014.
Some schools may play "non-conference" games against PAC opponents.
I believe that is the case with W&J/Westminster for the 2014 season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on February 18, 2014, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on February 16, 2014, 07:46:55 PM
I was in Cleveland this weekend for mother's weekend at my son's fraternity.  Case had it's football banquet and Debs announced that he had 10 commitments so far.  He mentioned that is a rather large number of commitments for this time of year.  He seemed very optimistic.

I really don't know why anyone lives here.  It's cold.

This from someone that's a graduate of Alfred University?

(for the record, I agree with the disdain for the cold - I love Pittsburgh, but I really think I'd be all right with snow once a year on Christmas and then never again)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on February 18, 2014, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 08, 2014, 12:53:34 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2014, 08:44:35 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 01, 2014, 09:36:22 PM
http://www.gopresidents.com/schedule.aspx?path=football&
As I see it, 9 conference games for the new 11-team PAC.  Kinda reminds me of the old MAC.  No St Vincent?

Who plays 10 conference games this year?

CWRU and CMU only play eight, then WUStL and UChi.

Could be like the bad old days of the NCAC when teams didn't all play the same number of conference games.

I think that only happened once, in 2003.  Kenyon decided to take a timeout from league play that season so everybody who had Kenyon on the schedule either played them in a game that didn't count for league standings or didn't play them at all (Wabash and Wittenberg both had to scramble to fill that 10th game...both landed on first-year program Huntingdon as a last minute substitute). 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
Also happened in 1999 with Oberlin.
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Oberlin/1999/index
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on February 18, 2014, 04:46:30 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
Also happened in 1999 with Oberlin.
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Oberlin/1999/index

Ah.  One season before I got plugged into all things NCAC.   :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2014, 05:41:50 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on February 18, 2014, 04:46:30 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
Also happened in 1999 with Oberlin.
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Oberlin/1999/index

Ah.  One season before I got plugged into all things NCAC.   :)

It's a good reminder that, as bad as the NCAC football schedule was in the latter part of the last decade, it was much worse before then!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 18, 2014, 07:58:44 PM
The 2013 Football Media Guide doesn't show Oberlin competing for the title in 1999.  But from 1989-98 not all teams played the same number of conference games.  CWRU always played six because of UAA games, but during that period some teams played seven while others eight.

Now that's before both the d3football era and Wabash's membership.   ;)

I thought it possible that one of W&J's games might not count for the standings, but W&J's site didn't have conference games marked.

I had contemplated moving to Texas this year, but deciding to stay in Ohio.  I have come to rue that decision, with this unusually cold winter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on February 19, 2014, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on February 18, 2014, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on February 16, 2014, 07:46:55 PMI really don't know why anyone lives here.  It's cold.

This from someone that's a graduate of Alfred University?

(for the record, I agree with the disdain for the cold - I love Pittsburgh, but I really think I'd be all right with snow once a year on Christmas and then never again)

I don't remember it being as cold in Alfred as it was last weekend in Cleveland.  We had more snow accumulation but I just don't remember it being so bitter cold. 

It was great to see my son but I have to say I was happy to be back in Fort Lauderdale.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 21, 2014, 09:31:36 AM
Another OL commit for CWRU

Ryan Merlau 6'3 255 Yorkshire NY Pioneer

No highlights on-line

His list of awards include Section 6 Scholar Athlete of the Year, NSYPHSAA scholar athlete, being a member of the Western New York All-Academic Team, a Trench Trophy finalist (top lineman in WestNY), All-Western New York and All-State honorable mentions as well as first-team all-league.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 26, 2014, 12:57:17 PM
Another SoCal QB to CWRU, Mac Vail Dana Point CA:
http://www.ocvarsity.com/ocvarsity/football-72850-recruiting-offers.html
http://www.hudl.com/athlete/740247/mac-vail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YhVcLt61Qg
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on March 28, 2014, 08:44:21 AM
No BridgeBowl for 2014?  Heard the Mt. St. Joseph's didn't renew contract with Thomas More.  And that TMC has very limited options for picking up a game (UW-OshKosh I think I heard)...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on March 28, 2014, 09:46:55 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on March 28, 2014, 08:44:21 AM
No BridgeBowl for 2014?  Heard the Mt. St. Joseph's didn't renew contract with Thomas More.  And that TMC has very limited options for picking up a game (UW-OshKosh I think I heard)...

I thought SaintsFAN had alluded to this once, but maybe it was in a PM conversation.  I think he had mentioned MSJ wanted to end the series.  Perhaps he'll chime in here. 

TMC vs. UWO would be a nice interconference matchup if they can make it happen, but arranging travel and agreeing on a site (if it's to be a one-time game) can be hangups.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on April 03, 2014, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on March 28, 2014, 09:46:55 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on March 28, 2014, 08:44:21 AM
No BridgeBowl for 2014?  Heard the Mt. St. Joseph's didn't renew contract with Thomas More.  And that TMC has very limited options for picking up a game (UW-OshKosh I think I heard)...

I thought SaintsFAN had alluded to this once, but maybe it was in a PM conversation.  I think he had mentioned MSJ wanted to end the series.  Perhaps he'll chime in here. 

TMC vs. UWO would be a nice interconference matchup if they can make it happen, but arranging travel and agreeing on a site (if it's to be a one-time game) can be hangups.

September 6th AT Wesley is the replacement game.  Go to the Heartland Conference page in the North Region for explanation.  I'll update soon.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 04, 2014, 05:50:30 PM
All Ohio LB Justin McMahon (6-1, 215) reported to have commited to CWRUhttp://www.hudl.com/athlete/501287/justin-mcmahon

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/501287/justin-mcmahon

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 09, 2014, 11:38:56 AM
Another CWRU QB commit:

Robert Cuda South Elgin IL 6'1 200  2x All-State HM

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1420006/rob-cuda
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 15, 2014, 08:07:50 PM
CWRU commit Cody Calhoun, an All-Ohio DB/ATH from Columbus Watterson, has been selected to play in the Ohio North-South All-Star game.  First time I can recall a CWRU recruit playing in the game, although starting last year the rosters were in essence doubled with the addition of a second game for the smaller school players.  The JJHuddle site had him rated one of the top 200 prospects in Ohio for the class of 2014.


http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/1045655/highlights/77935378
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 05, 2014, 03:30:27 PM
CWRU reports class of 39 from 14 different states:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/20140502wc2r5r
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 07, 2014, 01:02:44 PM
CMU 43 from 21 states.

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2013-14/releases/20140507200su0
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 19, 2014, 10:41:05 AM
Wyant Athletic Center Update (coming along nicely):

http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/wyant_athletic_wellness_center

Also new for 2014, uniforms from Nike with a darker shade of blue (like the logo on the website) and possibly blue helmets for the first time in program history.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 02, 2014, 08:22:09 AM
CWRU preseason roster

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/roster
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 17, 2014, 10:46:50 AM
PAC Media Day Aug 6 at St. Vincent

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/7/16/FB_0716145402.aspx
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on July 18, 2014, 04:02:36 AM
Looking forward to the PAC race this year. Will it come down to the final weeks again?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 18, 2014, 12:25:56 PM
Most likely.

CWRU @ TMC is week 10 and W&J Waynesburg week 11.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 28, 2014, 12:27:58 PM
CWRU preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/2014072599llj7
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 06, 2014, 06:28:25 AM
2014 Case Football Media Guide is out:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/files/cwru_football_inside_pages.pdf (http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/files/cwru_football_inside_pages.pdf)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 06, 2014, 05:33:28 PM
PAC Media Poll and more

http://pacathletics.org/news/2014/7/30/FB_0730141506.aspx

Looks like Spartans will sport very dark gray matte helmets

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 06, 2014, 11:38:31 PM
I am a bit surprised to see us picked that highly given that we only have a handful of offensive starters returning.

The media must have a lot of respect for our defense, and our incoming recruits.

I hope that we do finish in the Top Four though!

It's interesting that we're back to having "CWRU" rather than "Case" on the uniforms.  I like the Spartan head logo on the shoulders.  Where did you see the gray helmets?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 06, 2014, 11:42:34 PM
Oh wait.

I just saw the photo gallery.

They are going to put a logo on that helmet, right?

Personally, I don't like that gray helmet.  It clashes with the rest of the uniform, and has no Spartan head logo.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 07, 2014, 02:53:19 PM
Top 4 is where I had us.  TMC big favorite, then W&J, I saw us about even with Waynesburg.  Wait to see where Kickoff ranks 'em.

The CASE unis came out at the time of the great failed rebranding.  I wish the font was larger.  Seems odd that the helmet logo on the right sleeve faces back.

The helmet gray and the blue both are darker than I expected.  There will be a Spartan head logo on the helmet, still deciding whether it will be blue or white, I'm told.  I don't think blue would stand out well enough.  With gray pants and (I'm guessing) a gray sleeve and numerals on home jersey, I don't think the helmets will clash.  That said, I would have preferred blue helmets.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 14, 2014, 11:35:45 AM
Looks like Bavaro is back to kick this season after all.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/roster

Yesterday was pix and physicals.

https://twitter.com/caseathletics/status/499642924788088832/photo/1
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 18, 2014, 09:57:26 AM
Coach Debs and Lapcevic at PAC Media Day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yobmTGgT-_E
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 23, 2014, 02:33:48 PM
From info in the CWRU Media Guide, CMU describes its offense as "Multiple One-Back."  Although Coach Lackner's comments at PAC Media Day referred to the wing-T saying: "We'll obviously maintain some of that offensive scheme."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 24, 2014, 10:09:42 AM
Thomas More Athletics has signed with NIKE to outfit their sports program (all 19 sports).

Back to football:  quite a lot of talent coming back and a tremendous recruiting class, too.  There's a QB who was a D1 guy (was going to play at WKU) and some size.  Trying to find out if any will be in the lineup in Dover. 

Be patient - football is finally here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 24, 2014, 11:25:16 PM
CWRU has also signed with Nike (all 17 sports).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 26, 2014, 03:02:51 PM
Interesting Kickoff predicts a four way tie for fourth.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on August 26, 2014, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 26, 2014, 03:02:51 PM
Interesting Kickoff predicts a four way tie for fourth.

Must be tough to swallow coming from a conference that had 4 members!  ;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2014, 08:17:51 PM
PAC Kickoff Classic

http://static.psbin.com/g/j/652rz9hs7v6eb8/fb_cmu_games_notes14.pdf

CMU going with two frosh QBs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 04, 2014, 12:20:35 PM
New uniforms honor M. Frank Rudy inventor of Nike's Air Sole (CIT '50)

http://thedaily.case.edu/news/?p=31714
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on September 04, 2014, 12:32:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 04, 2014, 12:20:35 PM
New uniforms honor M. Frank Rudy inventor of Nike's Air Sole (CIT '50)

http://thedaily.case.edu/news/?p=31714

That is awesome. Uniforms look very nice.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 04, 2014, 01:48:41 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on September 04, 2014, 12:32:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 04, 2014, 12:20:35 PM
New uniforms honor M. Frank Rudy inventor of Nike's Air Sole (CIT '50)

http://thedaily.case.edu/news/?p=31714

That is awesome. Uniforms look very nice.

Those are the homes.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 05, 2014, 09:37:39 PM
Debs and PAC Commish on radio

http://stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=14183&f=3294493
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 06, 2014, 08:04:30 PM
Let me start off by saying Coach Hilvert and the Thomas More program are well beyond moral victories. 

That said, I'm encouraged by what Thomas More was able to do today in the season opener against a strong Wesley team.  A Wesley team that has won 66 of their last 70 games at home.  A Wesley team that has virtually everyone back from a team that fell a point short of beating Mount Union in Alliance last year in the National Semifinals.  Having been to three National Semi's in Alliance covering games for this website, I know how hard it is to compete with the Machine in December.  A loss is a loss but there are some positives from this one. 

*the line play -- Thomas More is bigger and more athletic than they've been at any other time under Hilvert.  I know they are excited about this.  And they held up today in Dover.  They won't see another DL as big and as talented as Wesley unless they make the tournament.

*the Saints found another RB to help balance the run game in CT Tarrant.  This goes nicely with the great receiver corps they have in Cohorn, Leonard, Vogelpohl and Winkler.  Teams are going to key on Hayden and the rest of the skill guys will take advantage of their opportunities. 

* return game::  the Saints again have some guys who can make big plays to help flip field position.

*the defense had a tough day- but all PAC LB Fishburn is back healthy after missing all of 2013 with an ACL injury. 

This was a program barometer game for TMC, and they are getting closer.  It's much better than the debacle in Belton, TX against Mary Hardin Baylor.  Thomas More's first game on the local ESPN radio station wasn't a victory but this will only sharpen their focus on the PAC games.  There's zero margin for error.  It will be exciting to see how much they improve between now and next week at Hanover. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wesleydad on September 06, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Saints, I agree with all points that you make.  The Saints are a good team from what I saw today.  They are a solid top 25 team.  They will be able to move the ball on anyone left on their schedule.  I have been watching the W and J game tonight and after a slow start they look pretty good too.  Your game with them will be a good one.  Hopefully the Saints players learn that the chirping done after the plays today is not necessary, they did not do it as much as Wesley, but they did do enough of it to take away from their performance too.

I like your QB, he gets rid of the ball quick and the receivers are gutsy.  Going across the middle is a tough thing to do against Wesley and many of the routes being run went to the middle of the field.  Good luck the rest of the season.  I will be watching.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 07, 2014, 09:18:46 AM
"Goose Cohorn" has to be one of the best country-bumpkin names I have ever seen. Love it. Looks like the kid can really play, too.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 11, 2014, 08:58:27 AM
Congratulations to the two PAC players named to D3football.com's Team of the Week:

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/9/10/FB_0910145001.aspx
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 14, 2014, 04:41:09 PM
Hello, Spartan Mom,

We live in East Tennessee and one of our neighbors has a nephew who plays for Case (or, to make all alums happy, Case Western Reserve).  You can tell where my allegiances lie by my screen name.  We plan on getting together the afternoon of October 25 to watch the game. Should be a good one. It's also W&J's Homecoming, so there will be a good crowd on hand to root for the Presidents!

Jeff

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 14, 2014, 08:38:19 PM
Hello ExTartanPlayer,

When I was at W&J CMU was on the schedule and joined the PAC right after I graduated, but they left in 1989. Based on what I can find, W&J and CMU have played 63 times with CMU leading the series 32-26-5. The last time I think they played was 1989 which was when W&J was starting their major resurgence as a DIII power. I asked a friend who was a CMU Trustee why they had broken off the tradition, and he said CMU had decided to go a "different way." I didn't press him, and can only speculate why they decided to drop W&J and fill out their schedule with less competitive PAC football schools as they joined the UAA.

Next Saturday they renew their rivalry at Cameron Stadium. If W&J wins, it will be their 700th in program history. Here is who they will join in this exclusive club:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_football_teams_by_wins

Although the coaches will play this down, do you think W&J will be psyched to play for this historic win at home against a long time rival in a game that renews that rivalry? I know I'll be watching here in East Tennessee!!

Jeff
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 14, 2014, 11:33:50 PM
WashJeff,

I know very little of the nitty-gritty details behind CMU's decision to leave the PAC and stop playing W & J, as I did not come to the program until much later (played from 2004-07).  I have picked up, from comments that Bob Gregg has made on these boards when he used to post more, that it was not a particularly friendly split and that CMU probably made some comments that either were elitist, or were merely interpreted as elitist. 

When I was in the program, we played a number of nonconference games with PAC schools (Grove City 4x, Bethany 4x, Thiel 2x, plus a scrimmage against Waynesburg every year) so I felt quite familiar with the PAC schools and competition, and I'm happy to see CMU in the conference full-time.

Do I think W & J's players will be psyched?  Sure, but I think we (as fans) might overrate the potential galvanizing effect of things like "renewing a rivalry" - none of the kids playing in that game was even alive the last time W & J played CMU. Hard to imagine that the Prez players will derive any extra motivation from "CMU left our conference 25 years ago!"

With that said, I expect the Presidents to win comfortably, as CMU has been struggling of late and is clearly in a rebuilding season (starting a freshman at QB and with very few seniors overall) while W & J looks quite strong this year.  But it won't be because they were playing for the 700th win in program history, or because they're anxious to pay back  CMU for leaving the PAC in 1989.  It will be because they're a better team, period.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 15, 2014, 10:47:42 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 14, 2014, 04:41:09 PM
Hello, Spartan Mom,

We live in East Tennessee and one of our neighbors has a nephew who plays for Case (or, to make all alums happy, Case Western Reserve).  You can tell where my allegiances lie by my screen name.  We plan on getting together the afternoon of October 25 to watch the game. Should be a good one. It's also W&J's Homecoming, so there will be a good crowd on hand to root for the Presidents!

Jeff

Hello Jeff!  I bet it will be fun to watch the game with your neighbor.  It's always fun to have a friendly rivalry.

My youngest son is still in HS and we just hired a former W&J lacrosse coach to head our program.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 16, 2014, 04:55:54 PM
[quote author=ExTartanPlayer link=topic=3947.msg1606041#msg1606041 date=1410752



Do I think W & J's players will be psyched?  Sure, but I think we (as fans) might overrate the potential galvanizing effect of things like "renewing a rivalry" - none of the kids playing in that game was even alive the last time W & J played CMU. Hard to imagine that the Prez players will derive any extra motivation from "CMU left our conference 25 years ago
[/quote]

Ex Tartan,

Good perspective. In fact, now that the AD has retired, I doubt there is anyone still associated with the athletic program who was there when CMU left the PAC. Winning, and and winning #700 will be sufficient motivation.

W&J lost their three key offensive weapons from last year (QB Matt Bliss, RB Dion Wiegand and WR Alex Baroffio). It would appear they have found adequate replacements. W&J has had remarkable stability in the coaching staff (Luckhardt hired both Banaszak and Sirianni, his two successors) since 1982. This has to be a plus, and W&J's record in that period would seem to suggest that it is.

Good to have CWRU and CMU back for football. Think they may eventually return as full members? It would certainly cut the travel budget!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 16, 2014, 05:35:16 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 16, 2014, 04:55:54 PM
Good to have CWRU and CMU back for football. Think they may eventually return as full members? It would certainly cut the travel budget!

Not sure.  I think CMU and CWRU are happy with their places in the UAA as an all-sports conference (it works beautifully for everything but football), but if the athletics budget were significantly reduced, perhaps such a move would be necessary. 

The other question of interest is how long the UAA-SAA-PAC thingy remains in place.  I like keeping the WashU-Chicago-CWRU games but eventually I suspect the PAC or SAA will raise a stink about acquiescing to the UAA schools' scheduling needs every season.  We'll see.  For now, like you said, I'm excited for the season with CWRU and CMU playing a full slate in the PAC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 16, 2014, 07:48:38 PM
St Vincent - Case Western Reserve preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/files/fb_svc_games_notes14.pdf

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/2014091687fxer
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 17, 2014, 07:28:07 AM
Neither school will be interested in leaving the UAA, simply because both schools take pride in being members of the ONLY conference in the NCAA in which EVERY member school is also a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU), the nation's premier association of research universities.  Even conferences like the Ivy League (Dartmouth isn't a member), and the B1G (Nebraska was kicked out of the AAU) can't claim that same distinction.

The small liberal arts colleges in the PAC aren't as good of a fit, profile-wise, for Case as the AAU research universities in the UAA are.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 17, 2014, 11:45:25 AM
CMU-W & J game notes are posted.

Couple of lineup changes on offense.  Hearon starting at QB over freshman Jangro (listed as second-string).  New starter (junior Will French) at LT, last week's started McDonald not on this week's two-deep (injured?).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 11:50:18 AM
I do think the prospect of AQ merits consideration of CWRU's affiliating with PAC for baseball.

W&J goes for 700th win in program history and CWRU for 200th in much shorter history.

Beecher gets a mention in today's Triple Take. 

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2014/09/19/triple-take-week-3-big-clashes-and-bigger-road-trips/

Esteban still listed as starter, but Suren is back to back him up after offseason surgery.

Returning starter at LG no longer with the team.  Sicre is listed as starting.

Not sure what to make of St Vincent, they didn't win a game last season and were blown out by John Carroll, whose #1 QB didn't play.  Then they had a halftime lead over Waynesburg, who had beaten Muskingum 33-0, before losing 24-35. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2014, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 11:50:18 AM
I do think the prospect of AQ merits consideration of CWRU's affiliating with PAC for baseball.
My thoughts on the Pres AC accepting CWRU as a baseball affiliate are these.

1) Do we (the Pres AC) need CWRU to keep an AQ?  -- No
2) Do we need the guaranteed games (2-3 per season) to fill the 40 game schedule? -- No
3) Will Pres AC schools play CWRU anyway?  -- Probably.
4) Does adding a 9th team make scheduling easier? --  No, that pesky open date every weekend
5) Are the stategic advantages for other sports to let CWRU affiliate?  --  I don't see them from the outside. Allowing them access to football opponents in October and November when everyone else is playing conference games is a big win for CWRU as it is now.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 12:55:10 PM
Certainly most of the benefit is to CWRU.

However, the PAC currently has nine baseball teams, so adding CWRU would eliminate "that pesky open date every weekend."

For some reason the PAC page on d3baseball omits Westminster's team.

http://pacathletics.org/standings.aspx?standings=39&path=baseball

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2014, 08:25:11 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 12:55:10 PM
Certainly most of the benefit is to CWRU.

However, the PAC currently has nine baseball teams, so adding CWRU would eliminate "that pesky open date every weekend."

For some reason the PAC page on d3baseball omits Westminster's team.

http://pacathletics.org/standings.aspx?standings=39&path=baseball
My bad!  I miscounted on the D3baseball.com website. Westminster PA is not on the D3baseball.com Pres AC site.

Gotta tell Jim Dixon.

Then in that case, I do offer CWRU a place!

You da Man!  +1!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 08:56:49 PM
This presupposes the Chatham doesn't add baseball.  But the lack of a facility makes that unlikely.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2014, 09:02:56 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 08:56:49 PM
This presupposes the Chatham doesn't add baseball.  But the lack of a facility makes that unlikely.

Chatham adding baseball seems even less likely than CMU adding baseball, IMO.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2014, 09:02:56 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2014, 08:56:49 PM
This presupposes the Chatham doesn't add baseball.  But the lack of a facility makes that unlikely.

Chatham adding baseball seems even less likely than CMU adding baseball, IMO.

Agreed
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 20, 2014, 10:34:17 AM
Ready for the game!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 20, 2014, 03:54:57 PM
Very disappointing performance.  St. Vincent was in the middle of a 20+ game losing streak.  We'd better bounce back, or we could be headed for a long year.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 20, 2014, 07:03:00 PM
Props to SVC

Spartans dealing with some adversity.

On O:  Sicre DNP (although Bianco averaged just under 4 ypc)  Left side of line reconfigured with freshman getting first start at LT.  Lapcevic wasn't seen after early in the 2nd Qtr.

On D:  Dishong DNP  Sandidge was in only 1 series in 2nd half  I don't think J Williams was in at all in second half  Sandidge's replacement wasn't even on the two-deep

Beecher had an okay game, not a "breakout game."
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 20, 2014, 08:00:20 PM
W&J gets win #700. Solid win, but CMU didn't cave. Thought CWRU might be a challenge, but not sure after loss to St Vincent. W&J may crack the top 25 this week. Clearly on track for 31st consecutive wining season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 22, 2014, 11:47:31 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 20, 2014, 08:00:20 PM
W&J gets win #700. Solid win, but CMU didn't cave. Thought CWRU might be a challenge, but not sure after loss to St Vincent. W&J may crack the top 25 this week. Clearly on track for 31st consecutive wining season.

I don't think Sirriani is going to be very happy with this win over CMU.. but that will allow him to focus them in on Thomas More during the next two weeks.  So it could be a positive and not a harbinger of what may come in two weeks.

Should be a great game, but Thomas More has to get through Westminster first -- they have no room for error now after losing to Wesley in week 1.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 27, 2014, 07:00:55 PM
St Vincent won again.  As a CWRU fan, I wasn't sure what to make of last week.  And this week we only squeaked past Thiel.   Congrats to St Vincent getting win #2. 

http://athletics.stvincent.edu/news/2014/9/27/FB_0927142026.aspx?path=football
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 27, 2014, 10:44:07 PM
TMC needs to clean up penalties and tighten up the passing game.  The rushing attack is legit though after 500+ on the ground today against Westminster.
We'll see what happens next Saturday night under the lights.  It's yet another playoff game for Thomas More.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 04:35:46 PM
heard there is a big game in this conference this weekend.  Has anyone else heard the same?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2014, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 04:35:46 PM
heard there is a big game in this conference this weekend.  Has anyone else heard the same?

LOL.  I'm still not used to following the PAC.  I didn't even realize TMC was playing W & J.

TMC fooled me a bit last year.  I thought they were really, really good after that 61-0 pounding they put on Geneva (not that Geneva was really great shakes, but they had a really good offense that had scored 47, 51, 49, and 34 points in their first four games, and TMC held them to 88 yards or something ridiculous).  Then they went out and lost to the Prez, even with a huge game from Hayden, and blew out everyone else on the schedule (of their nine wins, the closest came by 20 points).  Pretty hard to convince me that W & J was actually better than TMC over the course of the season when you look at the cumulative season scores, but the Prez lunched them when it counted.  Will be fascinating to see who comes out on top this weekend.  The remainder of the conference is extremely average, although Bethany is a quietly on a three-game winning streak since playing Mount in the opener and just beat Waynesburg...will the Bison finally break out of .500-land and win 7 or 8 games this year?  I vote that Bethany @ CWRU is the second-most-interesting PAC game this weekend.

Also, can someone explain to me why Bethany has played three PAC teams but only is listed as 2-0 in the conference?  Was the Bethany-Thiel game technically a non league game?  Is this because adding CMU and CWRU forced people to scramble for OOC games?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2014, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2014, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2014, 04:35:46 PM
heard there is a big game in this conference this weekend.  Has anyone else heard the same?

LOL.  I'm still not used to following the PAC.  I didn't even realize TMC was playing W & J.

TMC fooled me a bit last year.  I thought they were really, really good after that 61-0 pounding they put on Geneva (not that Geneva was really great shakes, but they had a really good offense that had scored 47, 51, 49, and 34 points in their first four games, and TMC held them to 88 yards or something ridiculous).  Then they went out and lost to the Prez, even with a huge game from Hayden, and blew out everyone else on the schedule (of their nine wins, the closest came by 20 points).  Pretty hard to convince me that W & J was actually better than TMC over the course of the season when you look at the cumulative season scores, but the Prez lunched them when it counted.  Will be fascinating to see who comes out on top this weekend.  The remainder of the conference is extremely average, although Bethany is a quietly on a three-game winning streak since playing Mount in the opener and just beat Waynesburg...will the Bison finally break out of .500-land and win 7 or 8 games this year?  I vote that Bethany @ CWRU is the second-most-interesting PAC game this weekend.

Also, can someone explain to me why Bethany has played three PAC teams but only is listed as 2-0 in the conference?  Was the Bethany-Thiel game technically a non league game?  Is this because adding CMU and CWRU forced people to scramble for OOC games?

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this conference outside of W&J and Thomas More this year.  I thought Waynesburg was dangerous heading into the season and was shocked at the Bethany result.  Because.  Bethany. 

The conference has two winless teams and three teams with one win after 5 weeks of the season.  Thats 5 out of 11 teams who are underachieving.   The PAC has gone 8-10 in OOC games this year but teams have played John Carroll, Mount Union and Wesley for three of those losses.  Further muddying the picture are the OOC games against teams from the PAC. 

Basically, what I think we have here is two playoff teams and 9 average to mediocre teams.  We'll see what the next 6 weeks bring, I guess.

Onto the big game this weekend.  Last year's 45-21 score doesn't tell the story of the game.  Basically it was a 3 point game late in the 3rd Quarter after a Thomas More TD and W&J returned the ensuing kickoff for a TD.  Thomas More lost its starting QB late in the 3rd Quarter and played the entire 4th Quarter without him.  The momentum from the kick return and losing their QB was too much for Thomas More to overcome. 

Their 2nd String QB this year is a freshman who was headed to Western Kentucky University but changed his mind and enrolled at Thomas More.  The future at QB is in good hands with him following Gebhardt who is in his third year as the starter.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2014, 03:55:58 PM
Carnegie-Mellon scores TD in final minute to tie Westminster, then gets the ball back, kicks a 50-yard field goal to win it as time expires, 27-24.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wesleydad on October 04, 2014, 07:48:34 PM
Early in the second and W&J is laying it to TMC.  If not for the 2 long plays this game would be real ugly.  TMC defense is having trouble stopping W&J.  Could be a long night for the Saints if they don't get some stops.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 04, 2014, 08:22:04 PM
W&J 31-21 at the half. Ruffing being contained but Coughlin is lighting it up in the air.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 04, 2014, 09:53:03 PM
51-28 Wow. W&J SHOULD win out. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2014, 10:22:51 PM
Did NOT see that coming, gotta tell you!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2014, 11:14:09 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2014, 10:22:51 PM
Did NOT see that coming, gotta tell you!

Ditto.  Looks like W&J earned the Thomas More Top 25 votes tonight.  They should debut around #20, me thinks.

5 turnovers.  Well, the 5th was after the game was decided. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 05, 2014, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2014, 10:10:45 AM
......Last year's 45-21 score doesn't tell the story of the game.  Basically it was a 3 point game late in the 3rd Quarter after a Thomas More TD and W&J returned the ensuing kickoff for a TD.  Thomas More lost its starting QB late in the 3rd Quarter and played the entire 4th Quarter without him.  The momentum from the kick return and losing their QB was too much for Thomas More to overcome. 

Last NIGHT'S 51-28 score doesn't tell the story of the game.  Basically (no, ACTUALLY) it was a 3 point game late in the 3rd Quarter after a Thomas More TD.  On second & 12 from the 23, W&J got a 18-yard pass turned into a 77-yard TD.  Thomas More pulled its starting QB early in the 4th Quarter and played the entire 4th Quarter without him.  The momentum from the TD pass and the ensuing three turnovers was too much for Thomas More to overcome.

On second thought, perhaps these two games tell the story of a very good rivalry that has developed quickly.

And, on THAT note, I have to tell you that this rivalry has taken a pretty incredible turn for the good.  And it has NOTHING to do with W&J winning two straight after TMC won five in a row.

Two years ago, in some of the most incredible, difficult, hope-to-never-be-repeated circumstances, I think these two PAC football powerhouses figured something out.

What happened at W&J two years ago yesterday should never happen, but it did.  Timothy McNerny died in a scuffle after being pushed to the ground in a robbery for his cellphone.  His teammate, Zach DeCicco was beaten up pretty badly in the incident.

Just a couple days later, W&J traveled to Bank of Kentucky Stadium and played TMC in a football game.  A FOOTBALL GAME for heaven's sake!  According to all the stories and interviews, they did so because that's what this team, this college, this community needed, and because that's what Tim would have wanted.  And that sentiment was pretty universal.  There, on the W&J sideline, was Tim McNerney's jersey for all to see, to think about, to remember what was REALLY important.

I've thought often about that day.  And many times I've considered what had been asked of Thomas More in that situation.  How do you play a football game against a team whose captain had been murdered by a couple thugs just days earlier?  How do you ratchet up the energy, the enthusiasm, the emotion that such a rivalry demands under such incredible weight of circumstance?

True to their nickname, the Saints were tremendous.  They were business-like in the contest and brotherly outside of it.  Thomas More won the game that day, though the Presidents game them a decent challenge. There wasn't really much doubt that the Saints would win.   There wasn't a lot of hoop-lah, over-the-top celebrations on big plays or scores, or in the final victory.

Following the game, all were together on the field.  All trying to mourn, to grieve, to begin the healing.  And somewhere, in that horrific week, in that terrible process, maybe even in that all-in-one huddle on the turf at Bank of Kentucky Stadium, with Tim McNerney's jersey in the middle, all found out something about themselves, about each other and about life.   There were Presidents & Saints, Red & Black, Blue & White, coaches & players, students & fans, parents and staff, together.  And, in the midst of it all, they figured it out:  football's just a game.

Sure, it should be played to win, with maximum effort within the rules and with the expectation of leaving it all on the field when the final whistle blows.  And rivalries should bring out the best--in the best players and in the third-stringers, in the HC's and the position coaches, in the parents, the fans and the communities that support them.  But it's just a game.

Somehow, somewhere around 4:30 pm that day, in the midst of several hundred people on the turf in Crestview Hills, Kentucky, this rivalry turned from heated, bitter, even edgy, into what a college football rivalry should be--well-prepared, hard-fought, played to the final whistle, and recognizing, when the day is done, these guys in the other helmets are men, from homes and families, schools and communities facing who knows what. 

I'm excited to see more hard-fought, exciting, perhaps down-to-the-final-whistle games in this series.  And I'm sure the details of these games will fade from my memory one day.  But I will NEVER forget that Saturday afternoon two years ago.  As a member of the Washington, PA community and the extended Washington & Jefferson College family, I am grateful to the Thomas More College community for their grace and compassion, their understanding and support, their work to see this rivalry become something far better than what it might have been.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 05, 2014, 11:33:15 AM
Bob,

Thanks for sharing.

I remember watching the Youtube video of the memorial for Tim held on campus. Tori was outstanding, but she generally is. Mike showed what a caring, loyal and principled person he is. I wrote and told him how moved I was by his comments, what a role model he is for his players, and that I hope he stays at W&J for a long time. He wote a nice note back, said how much he enjoys coaching at W&J, particularly the quality of young men he has in his program.

I'm sure he has had many opportunities to move on, and perhaps one day he will, but until then, W&J is very well served by his presence.

Jeff  in Tennessee ( class of '68 - the middle of "The Heart of Darkness" era for W&J football)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 05, 2014, 07:59:19 PM
+1! Bob. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2014, 03:55:58 PM
Carnegie-Mellon scores TD in final minute to tie Westminster, then gets the ball back, kicks a 50-yard field goal to win it as time expires, 27-24.

Followed this via live stats on my cell phone (I was at the Central Michigan-Ohio game with my girlfriend, a professor at Central who has thankfully indulged my tastes for small college football and dutifully gone with me to all three home games for Central since she moved to Mount Pleasant, MI this year).  Looks like Westminster/the officials gave CMU a gift by committing a 15-yard penalty on the last play of the game (from the 48-yard line) - I do not know precisely what the call was or what actually happened, but there are VERY few explanations I can think of on the Westminster side for committing such a penalty. 

As a result, Carnegie Mellon has squeaked out two straight wins in games where they were, truth be told, badly outplayed (outgained 453-176 in last week's game vs. Geneva, which I saw, and then 388-203 by Westminster).  It is only be the grace of a few breaks the right way that we're 2-2 and not 0-4.  And yet, I'll take it.

Now that CMU is officially in the PAC, I'll try to do a little PAC shootaround on the boards here each week and a power-rankings (once there's enough data to reasonably rank the teams):

1. Washington & Jefferson (2-0, 4-0): After handling TMC this week, the Prez are squarely in the driver's seat.
2. Thomas More (2-1, 3-2): The Saints now face an uphill battle to make the playoffs.

3. Bethany (3-0, 4-1): don't look now, but the Bison have run off four straight wins since the Mount Union game.  Bethany has not finished better than 5-5 since 2001...but looking at the league right now, they'll be favored in every game but the W & J game (they did beat W & J last year!), and they don't play Thomas More...incredibly, the Bison could be one big upset away from a share of the league title (or even an outright league title).  Bison Fever.  Catch it.

Also, if anyone can explain why Bethany has played four PAC teams but is only listed as 3-0 in the league, I'd be grateful.  I assume that one of the games (Thiel?) is being counted as a nonconference game for both teams.  Actually, it looks like there are several of those around the league, now that I look closer (Geneva beat Grove City but still is listed as having zero league wins).  I assume that this has something to do with CMU/CWRU joining the PAC and only playing eight league games because they're keeping the WashU/Chicago UAA games.  It's going to make these rankings a bit confusing because Geneva has zero official "league" wins even though they have beaten a PAC team.  Whatever.

4. Waynesburg (2-1, 4-1): the Yellow Jackets could have had that #3 spot but lost to Bethany last week.  They, too, will be favored in every game until season-ending showdowns with Thomas More and W & J.  While I don't think they're good enough to win either of those (besides the loss to Bethany, they've had to work a little too hard to beat St. Vincent and Geneva), they should finish solidly on the right side of .500 mark.

I think those four spots are pretty clear.  After that...oy vey, what do we do with the middle of the pack?  Let's play follow the leader

5A. Thiel (1-2, 2-3):
5B. St. Vincent (2-1, 2-3):
5C. Case Western (2-2, 2-2):

These guys all get listed together because Thiel beat St. Vincent 21-20, St. Vincent beat Case Western 23-20, and Case Western beat Thiel 23-16.  All of those results tell me that these teams are more-or-less even with one another.

8. Carnegie Mellon (2-2, 2-2): currently a notch below the above triumvirate because they lost badly to Case Western (30-0) and currently have skin-of-their-teeth wins against two teams listed even lower than them in the rankings.  Still, the Tartans have managed to pull out W's the last two weeks while being badly outplayed both times.  No idea if this means they'll turn it up a notch and win a few more games, or if this is all they have and last week will be the season highlight.

9. Geneva (0-2, 1-4): As explained above, Geneva is listed with zero league wins despite having a "nonconference" win over Grove City.  Have to be ranked down here with the loss to Carnegie Mellon, and they've got a tough slate coming up.

10. Westminster (0-3, 0-5): staying above Grove City because they've actually been competitive in three of the five losses (the only blowouts coming vs. #1 and #2 in these rankings).  Sooner or later they'll win a league game, maybe two.  There are several opponents on the schedule that are within reach.

11. Grove City (0-2, 0-4): beaten badly in every game, including losses to Geneva and St. Vincent, not exactly league powers.  CMU this weekend and Westminster on 11/8 are their best chances for a win.

Overall, after the first four teams (or even the first two teams, really) the league is very mediocre.  But that will make it fun to follow.  I imagine teams #5-11 on this list will take turns beating each other all season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Also, if anyone can explain why Bethany has played four PAC teams but is only listed as 3-0 in the league, I'd be grateful.  I assume that one of the games (Thiel?) is being counted as a nonconference game for both teams.  Actually, it looks like there are several of those around the league, now that I look closer (Geneva beat Grove City but still is listed as having zero league wins).  I assume that this has something to do with CMU/CWRU joining the PAC and only playing eight league games because they're keeping the WashU/Chicago UAA games.  It's going to make these rankings a bit confusing because Geneva has zero official "league" wins even though they have beaten a PAC team.  Whatever.

We were doing the same thing over in the NCAC for a few years.  Things got out of whack when Earlham bailed...games were scheduled for league play and then all of a sudden seven teams had an empty spot and only six league games.  It was a mess.  I'm sure you've got a couple of years here where the PAC is going to have some similar issues with the addition of teams, but hopefully they'll be able to schedule non-league games with teams from, you know, not their own league soon. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2014, 11:32:55 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
.... Looks like Westminster/the officials gave CMU a gift by committing a 15-yard penalty on the last play of the game (from the 48-yard line) - I do not know precisely what the call was or what actually happened, but there are VERY few explanations I can think of on the Westminster side for committing such a penalty. 
I watched the video stream.  It was a gift from the Titans.  Officials really didn't have anything else they could have done but call it.  It was a CLEAR facemask, on 4th & 10 from midfield.....The Titans had overtime in their grasp and let it go and grabbed a handful of facemask...YIKES!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Also, if anyone can explain why Bethany has played four PAC teams but is only listed as 3-0 in the league, I'd be grateful.  I assume that one of the games (Thiel?) is being counted as a nonconference game for both teams.  Actually, it looks like there are several of those around the league, now that I look closer (Geneva beat Grove City but still is listed as having zero league wins).  I assume that this has something to do with CMU/CWRU joining the PAC and only playing eight league games because they're keeping the WashU/Chicago UAA games.  It's going to make these rankings a bit confusing because Geneva has zero official "league" wins even though they have beaten a PAC team.  Whatever.

We were doing the same thing over in the NCAC for a few years.  Things got out of whack when Earlham bailed...games were scheduled for league play and then all of a sudden seven teams had an empty spot and only six league games.  It was a mess.  I'm sure you've got a couple of years here where the PAC is going to have some similar issues with the addition of teams, but hopefully they'll be able to schedule non-league games with teams from, you know, not their own league soon.

Yeah, I know this happens.  I also vaguely recall a season where a few WIAC teams played each other twice, once in an official "league" game and once in a non-league game.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Also, if anyone can explain why Bethany has played four PAC teams but is only listed as 3-0 in the league, I'd be grateful.  I assume that one of the games (Thiel?) is being counted as a nonconference game for both teams.  Actually, it looks like there are several of those around the league, now that I look closer (Geneva beat Grove City but still is listed as having zero league wins).  I assume that this has something to do with CMU/CWRU joining the PAC and only playing eight league games because they're keeping the WashU/Chicago UAA games.  It's going to make these rankings a bit confusing because Geneva has zero official "league" wins even though they have beaten a PAC team.  Whatever.

We were doing the same thing over in the NCAC for a few years.  Things got out of whack when Earlham bailed...games were scheduled for league play and then all of a sudden seven teams had an empty spot and only six league games.  It was a mess.  I'm sure you've got a couple of years here where the PAC is going to have some similar issues with the addition of teams, but hopefully they'll be able to schedule non-league games with teams from, you know, not their own league soon.

Yeah, I know this happens.  I also vaguely recall a season where a few WIAC teams played each other twice, once in an official "league" game and once in a non-league game.

I think that one was based on a league-wide mandate that they wouldn't travel out of state for games (for money reasons) and when you make that commitment and you play D3 football in Wisconsin, your options are pretty limited. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crufootball on October 06, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Also, if anyone can explain why Bethany has played four PAC teams but is only listed as 3-0 in the league, I'd be grateful.  I assume that one of the games (Thiel?) is being counted as a nonconference game for both teams.  Actually, it looks like there are several of those around the league, now that I look closer (Geneva beat Grove City but still is listed as having zero league wins).  I assume that this has something to do with CMU/CWRU joining the PAC and only playing eight league games because they're keeping the WashU/Chicago UAA games.  It's going to make these rankings a bit confusing because Geneva has zero official "league" wins even though they have beaten a PAC team.  Whatever.

We were doing the same thing over in the NCAC for a few years.  Things got out of whack when Earlham bailed...games were scheduled for league play and then all of a sudden seven teams had an empty spot and only six league games.  It was a mess.  I'm sure you've got a couple of years here where the PAC is going to have some similar issues with the addition of teams, but hopefully they'll be able to schedule non-league games with teams from, you know, not their own league soon.

Yeah, I know this happens.  I also vaguely recall a season where a few WIAC teams played each other twice, once in an official "league" game and once in a non-league game.

I think that one was based on a league-wide mandate that they wouldn't travel out of state for games (for money reasons) and when you make that commitment and you play D3 football in Wisconsin, your options are pretty limited.
Can just imagine the thrill of seeing UW-Whitewater on your schedule twice  :-[
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 06, 2014, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 06, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Also, if anyone can explain why Bethany has played four PAC teams but is only listed as 3-0 in the league, I'd be grateful.  I assume that one of the games (Thiel?) is being counted as a nonconference game for both teams.  Actually, it looks like there are several of those around the league, now that I look closer (Geneva beat Grove City but still is listed as having zero league wins).  I assume that this has something to do with CMU/CWRU joining the PAC and only playing eight league games because they're keeping the WashU/Chicago UAA games.  It's going to make these rankings a bit confusing because Geneva has zero official "league" wins even though they have beaten a PAC team.  Whatever.

We were doing the same thing over in the NCAC for a few years.  Things got out of whack when Earlham bailed...games were scheduled for league play and then all of a sudden seven teams had an empty spot and only six league games.  It was a mess.  I'm sure you've got a couple of years here where the PAC is going to have some similar issues with the addition of teams, but hopefully they'll be able to schedule non-league games with teams from, you know, not their own league soon.

Yeah, I know this happens.  I also vaguely recall a season where a few WIAC teams played each other twice, once in an official "league" game and once in a non-league game.

I think that one was based on a league-wide mandate that they wouldn't travel out of state for games (for money reasons) and when you make that commitment and you play D3 football in Wisconsin, your options are pretty limited.
Can just imagine the thrill of seeing UW-Whitewater on your schedule twice  :-[

It was like that in the WIAC for a while because of schedule difficulties.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: crufootball on October 06, 2014, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 06, 2014, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 06, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:59:04 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
Also, if anyone can explain why Bethany has played four PAC teams but is only listed as 3-0 in the league, I'd be grateful.  I assume that one of the games (Thiel?) is being counted as a nonconference game for both teams.  Actually, it looks like there are several of those around the league, now that I look closer (Geneva beat Grove City but still is listed as having zero league wins).  I assume that this has something to do with CMU/CWRU joining the PAC and only playing eight league games because they're keeping the WashU/Chicago UAA games.  It's going to make these rankings a bit confusing because Geneva has zero official "league" wins even though they have beaten a PAC team.  Whatever.

We were doing the same thing over in the NCAC for a few years.  Things got out of whack when Earlham bailed...games were scheduled for league play and then all of a sudden seven teams had an empty spot and only six league games.  It was a mess.  I'm sure you've got a couple of years here where the PAC is going to have some similar issues with the addition of teams, but hopefully they'll be able to schedule non-league games with teams from, you know, not their own league soon.

Yeah, I know this happens.  I also vaguely recall a season where a few WIAC teams played each other twice, once in an official "league" game and once in a non-league game.

I think that one was based on a league-wide mandate that they wouldn't travel out of state for games (for money reasons) and when you make that commitment and you play D3 football in Wisconsin, your options are pretty limited.
Can just imagine the thrill of seeing UW-Whitewater on your schedule twice  :-[

It was like that in the WIAC for a while because of schedule difficulties.

Was it schedule difficulties or the desire to keep cost down? I thought I remembered it being an effort to keep cost to minimum, which makes total sense but I am guessing didn't exactly sound great to the players.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 09, 2014, 01:00:19 PM
Gang,

Over on the NCAC board, there was a very interesting conversation comparing/rating the football venues in the conference.

I can't claim to have seen any of the venues in the PAC other than CWRU's.  Can someone who has seen them rank them all from best to worst, and provide a short description of each venue's quirks?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 09, 2014, 07:50:41 PM
Bill Belichick gives a shout out to CWRU football.... His father's alma mater.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNp5UGmK2MU&sns=em
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 09, 2014, 08:50:24 PM
I can't talk about any other PAC facilities since it has bee a LONG time since I have visited any, but here is some info about W&J's.

W&J's football stadium is a short walk from campus. Along the way you pass a few bars. Could make the walk back after the game a little longer.

Here is a link to the Cameron Stadium page at W&J's web site:

http://gopresidents.com/sports/2014/1/3/FH_0103141104.aspx

There is a weight room/etc for the varsity athletes in the Henry Center.

http://gopresidents.com/sports/2014/1/3/WBB_0103143531.aspx

I'm sure it is top notch.

Here is a link to the fitness center for students/faculty. This was the original gym, built in about 1890 nicely sort of  "re purposed."

http://gopresidents.com/sports/2014/1/3/GEN_0103145138.asp

The next W&J capital campaign provides for some updating of the Henry Center.

If no reps from other PAC schools respond I'll go to the school web sites and see if I can find similar links.

Jeff in Tennessee

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 10, 2014, 12:11:49 PM
WOW!!!!

The news just keeps getting BETTER!!!!

A $2 million donation has just been received to help Case build a 15,000 square foot indoor practice facility with artificial turf.  This, on top of the newly opened Wyant Field House/Belichik weight room.

Looks like CWRU may soon have among the very best athletic facilities in all of NCAA Division III!!!

GO SPARTANS!!!

http://cwru-daily.com/news/at-wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center-dedication-namesake-commits-5-million-more-to-cwru/ (http://cwru-daily.com/news/at-wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center-dedication-namesake-commits-5-million-more-to-cwru/)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 10, 2014, 12:35:51 PM
WashJeff,

Thanks for the info!

Case's football venue, DiSanto Field, is small (only seats 2,400, all on one side), but has an excellent field turf surface, and is in a wonderful setting, surrounded by fancy dormitory buildings from which students often view the games from their windows.  The small size can also be an advantage: it generally gets filled up, and together with the band, provides an lively gameday atmosphere.

http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/disanto_field (http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/disanto_field)

Of course, Case just opened a BREATHTAKING new training facility right next door to DiSanto: the Wyant Field House.  For more information on this facility, which includes a weight room funded by Patriots Coach Bill Belichick, and named after his Father, cardio equipment, and other items, see the link below:

http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/wyant_athletic_wellness_center (http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/wyant_athletic_wellness_center)

And as I mentioned, it doesn't end there: a 15,000 square foot indoor practice facility is now planned and partially funded!

http://cwru-daily.com/news/at-wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center-dedication-namesake-commits-5-million-more-to-cwru/ (http://cwru-daily.com/news/at-wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center-dedication-namesake-commits-5-million-more-to-cwru/)

The football stadium, baseball/softball stadiums, and new Field House are located on the north end of campus.  The school's other athletic facilities: indoor track, basketball gym, natatoriums, wrestling room, tennis courts, offices, hall of fame, etc, are located on the South end of campus near the so-called "Case Quad."

http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/veale_center (http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/veale_center)

http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/directions (http://athletics.case.edu/facilities/directions)

Off-campus, CWRU operates a farm which doubles as the venue for cross-country meets.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2014, 09:54:31 AM
I'm typing on my phone, but will post some infom on CMU's facilities at some point.

Anyways...a quietly fascinating storyline that I've been following for a few weeks now will come to fruition. The Bethany Bison will play W & J next week with a chance to claim the driver's seat in the PAC race. Bethany has not finished with a winning record since 2001, but they are currently 5-1 and have the opportunity. The Prez are undoubtedly the favorites and will presumably be out for revenge after Bethany upset them last year (seems like a case of looking-ahead, as W & J came out and bombed Thomas More the following week).

This game could be anything from a 40-point W & J win to a close win for the Bison. I must admit to pulling for Bethany, a program that's been downtrodden for so long, but as a PAC fan perhaps W & J would make the better playoff representative. There's no real reason to think Bethany is the better team, statistically.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 13, 2014, 10:42:54 AM
This week's PAC power rankings:

1. Washington & Jefferson (3-0, 5-0): No trouble with Grove City.  This weekend's game could all but seal the PAC title.

2. Thomas More (3-1, 4-2): The Saints rolled against Geneva, as expected.  Only 5 carries for Hayden; was he injured?  TMC has a pair of snoozers the next two weeks before a big matchup with Waynesburg.  They will need to win out + have not just one but two losses from W & J, plus some other help, to squeak into the playoffs.  Can the Saints stay focused and keep playing for pride with the carrot of a playoff berth possibly gone?

3. Bethany (4-0, 5-1): The Bethany Bison are about to play the biggest game since the inception of this website, if not the biggest game in school history (I don't know nor care to research pre-1999 results for every school).  Winners of five straight since opening with Mount Union, no matter how ugly some of the wins have been, they have a chance to put themselves squarely in the driver's seat for the PAC title.  They beat the Prez last year.  Something tells me that W & J will not be caught looking ahead this time around.  If I wasn't already planning on attending this weekend's CMU game, I would think about driving out to WV to watch.

4. Waynesburg (3-1, 5-1): their only loss came 33-27 against the aforementioned Bison, but some of the wins have been rather blah while others have been impressive.  Two more should-be-layups and then the real season-definers against TMC and W & J.  They still harbor some fringe playoff hopes if W & J beats Bethany.

Again...after that...what do we make of this mess?

Thiel (1-3, 2-4): beat St. Vincent, lost to Westminster
St. Vincent (2-1, 2-3): beat Case Western, lost to Thiel
Case Western (2-3, 2-3): lost to St. Vincent, beat Thiel
Carnegie Mellon (2-3, 2-3): lost to Case Western, beat Westminster
Westminster (1-3, 1-5): lost to Carnegie Mellon, beat Thiel

You figure it out.  Any of those teams are more-or-less interchangeable, and they probably can all beat one another on any given Saturday.  It would not surprise me if all of these teams finish between 3-7 and 5-5.

10. Geneva (0-2, 1-4): mostly close losses until last week's blowout against Thomas More.  I expect they'll pick up another win somewhere on the back nine of this schedule.  Probably will beat Bethany a week after Bethany beats W & J, just to make me look stupid and the league look that much wackier.

11. Grove City (0-3, 0-5): best chance for a win might be this week at CMU, or much later against Westminster and Thiel.  42-0 loss against Geneva does not bode well for chances against almost anyone.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 13, 2014, 01:13:43 PM
Nice, work ExTartanPlayer -- I agree with much of what you've said on here regarding the teams and their outlooks for the rest of the season.  Not sure about Hayden's status but I noticed that as well.  I've got feelers out to see what happened Saturday.  What it was (intentionally or not) was a look at what TMC Football will be without him next year. 

Another question for Thomas More is at QB, IMO -- as they get closer to the Waynesburg game... They gave two QB's playing time up at Geneva.  They have the incumbent starter, who I think would tell you hasn't played his best in 2014.  This is the same QB who drew rave reviews last year with his accuracy -- ability to drop dimes on the longer throws, made great decisions with the football and did not turn it over.  They also have the freshman recruit - who spurned an offer at Western Kentucky University.  He's a mobile QB who is still learning the nuances of the offense and adjusting to college football.  Whoever is playing QB HAS to take advantage of all the attention being paid to Hayden and the rushing attack.  Though the backup RBs who played on Saturday didn't put up Hayden-like YPC numbers, they are more than serviceable and would be starters at virtually any other PAC team. 

So from speaking about putting Kuntz in at QB for the 4th Quarter at W&J-- I'm not sure what it means.  But Kuntz saw action in the 2nd and 3rd Quarters also against Geneva. 

They have the big game in two weeks against Waynesburg, who've played Thomas More very tough in some years under Coach Hilvert..but they can't get caught looking ahead.  They need to win out and have alot happen nationally to make the playoffs but have to start with winning out first.  I feel like they need the playoffs with having MSJ drop them because they didn't feel like they could compete with Thomas More (and the results showed they can't). 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 18, 2014, 08:35:51 AM
Realistically, today is CWRU's last shot at notching another PAC win.

I am hopeful that the offensive resurgence last week will continue and the Spartans can beat WUStL and UChi to finish 5-5.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 19, 2014, 08:45:12 PM
Good meeting you ADL70.

I loved the double-reverse flea flicker for a TD!!!

As you said, I think that next week's opponent is going to give us a bit harder time!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 20, 2014, 01:01:39 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 19, 2014, 08:45:12 PM
Good meeting you ADL70.

I loved the double-reverse flea flicker for a TD!!!

Who had one this week?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 20, 2014, 08:45:04 AM
CWRU.  I know Nick is going to submit it for PoW.

"Sophomore wide receiver Brendan Lynch (Sarver, Pa./Freeport Area), who threw the team's first touchdown on a trick play, finished with a game-high nine receptions for 63 yards."

Sorry I didn't have more time Dagarman and that we didn't find Spartanmom. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 20, 2014, 11:48:03 AM
This week's PAC power rankings:

1. Washington & Jefferson (4-0, 6-0): the Presidents handled Bethany this week and now can put it on cruise-control until the final week showdown with Waynesburg.  They have not officially wrapped up the title, as that Week 11 game will still be a factor, but it's hard to see any scenario other than W & J in the playoffs.

2. Thomas More (4-1, 5-2): No Hayden this week.  No problem.  Only one real showcase game left, with Waynesburg.  Playoff hopes are all but dead, with what amounts to a two-game deficit on W & J.

3. Bethany (4-1, 5-2): Ah, well, it was fun while it lasted.  The Bison still have three winnable games left and could notch their best season since the inception of this website.

4. Waynesburg (4-1, 6-1): Still ranked behind Bethany by virtue of H2H loss despite their 6-1 record.  Beating Westminster 26-21 isn't exactly going to move you up in the rankings.  Despite being ranked #4, they are the only team remaining that has a chance to topple W & J from that playoff spot.

Copied from last week...after that...what do we make of this mess?

Thiel (1-3, 2-4): beat St. Vincent, lost to Case Western, lost to Westminster
St. Vincent (2-2, 2-4): lost to Thiel, beat Case Western
Case Western (3-3, 3-3): lost to St. Vincent, beat Thiel, beat Carnegie Mellon
Carnegie Mellon (3-3, 3-3): lost to Case Western, beat Westminster
Westminster (1-4, 1-6): lost to Carnegie Mellon, beat Thiel

We might be able to sort these guys out after CMU plays St. Vincent and Thiel, but for now, these five teams are more-or-less interchangeable.  I know that Westminster has only one win, but they beat Thiel h2h, should have beaten CMU, and could win all three of their remaining games.  Carnegie Mellon had a nice performance this week and unveiled a new weapon in freshman RB Sam Benger, who added some playmaking pop that had not been present in the offense.  I'm biased, but I think CMU and CWRU are probably the two best in this bunch.  We'll know more in two weeks.

10. Geneva (0-4, 1-5): Geneva is "winless" in the conference but did beat Grove City in a "non conference" game.  Tough sledding ahead with Bethany and W & J.

11. Grove City (0-4, 0-6): Competitive loss against Carnegie Mellon this week.  Also tough sledding the next two weeks but two potentially winnable games lie ahead at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 20, 2014, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 20, 2014, 01:01:39 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 19, 2014, 08:45:12 PM
Good meeting you ADL70.

I loved the double-reverse flea flicker for a TD!!!

Who had one this week?

It's on CWRU website now.  Not really a double reverse though.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/videos/20141020-61q6077r
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 20, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 20, 2014, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 20, 2014, 01:01:39 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 19, 2014, 08:45:12 PM
Good meeting you ADL70.

I loved the double-reverse flea flicker for a TD!!!

Who had one this week?



It's on CWRU website now.  Not really a double reverse though.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/videos/20141020-61q6077r

Love the uni's, thanks for posting the play.

ExTartan,

I know it is a difficult road, but with a quite a bit of games left, I think Thomas More may have an outside chance for a Pool C, if other conference continue to implode. If Thomas More finish outs 8-2, with there only losses to a Top 5 teams and a Top 15 team (mho) and winning against a 7-1 Waynesburg, I think they may have a strong case.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2014, 08:38:37 AM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 20, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 20, 2014, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 20, 2014, 01:01:39 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 19, 2014, 08:45:12 PM
Good meeting you ADL70.

I loved the double-reverse flea flicker for a TD!!!

Who had one this week?



It's on CWRU website now.  Not really a double reverse though.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/videos/20141020-61q6077r

Love the uni's, thanks for posting the play.

ExTartan,

I know it is a difficult road, but with a quite a bit of games left, I think Thomas More may have an outside chance for a Pool C, if other conference continue to implode. If Thomas More finish outs 8-2, with there only losses to a Top 5 teams and a Top 15 team (mho) and winning against a 7-1 Waynesburg, I think they may have a strong case.

It could happen but they are going to need some help, as you've alluded to.  Their schedule strength is improved after replacing MSJ with Wesley.  I think that alone will help tremendously IF they are on the "table" from the South Region at any point.  Remember, it all depends on who is ranked above them in the South Regional Rankings.  If there are teams ahead of them that are discussed but not picked, then Thomas More never even will be discussed as they don't discuss more than one team from each region at a time. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 21, 2014, 09:55:37 AM
CWRU highlights

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/videos/20141021-06cx7801
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 22, 2014, 10:28:30 AM
Following up on the PAC rankings, let's do a little shootaround of the week's games:

#5ish Case Western at #1 Washington & Jefferson: hard to see this one being close.  Case Western has found a stud freshman RB in Canganelli over the last few weeks, and perhaps a big game from Beecher along with Canganelli's production will let the Spartans trade scores with the Prez for awhile (the W & J defense has been good but not shut-em-down for most of the season).

#11 Grove City at #2 Thomas More: Thomas More does this weird thing where they absolutely obliterate the bad teams they play, then they lose the biggest game of the season, then they go on steamrolling everyone else to the finish line.  I expect the same here.

#3 Bethany at #10 Geneva: will the Bison remain focused after losing last week's big game?  They are improved, but not so good that they can survive a serious letdown game.  Come on guys, stay focused, I want to see an 8-2 Bethany finish!

#4 Waynesburg at #5ish Thiel: Waynesburg still harbors some playoff hopes if they can keep winning and upset W & J in the season finale.  That doesn't look terribly likely based on results to date, but they should be able to handle Thiel, whose two victories came at the expense of a bad Allegheny team and by one point against St. Vincent.  Then again, Waynesburg's defense has been vulnerable in a few games this season, so you can't rule out a close game here.

#5ish Carnegie Mellon at #5ish St. Vincent: I'm calling this the PAC game of the week because it's the only one without a clear-cut favorite.  There are some low-grade stakes for both teams, really...CMU would go on the plus side of .500 for the first time this season with a win, and give themselves a real chance to finish 5-5 or even 6-4, not fantastic but a step forward with a very young lineup.  Lots of young skill players (and their own new toy in freshman RB Sam Benger) give CMU promise for improvement going forward, and finishing at or above .500 this year would be a good start.  St. Vincent is 2-4 but also has a few winnable games ahead and would love to build a little momentum of their own, after two straight winless seasons going 3-7 or 4-6 would be a nice step forward. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2014, 04:34:01 PM
What's the word on Hayden (TMC)?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2014, 04:46:58 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 22, 2014, 10:28:30 AM
...the W & J defense has been good but not shut-em-down for most of the season...
vs. TMC, held Saints to 185 yards in second half and 7 points, 6-16 on 3rd downs in the game.
vs. Grove, held Wolverines to 201 total offense in game, 5-17 on 3rd downs.
vs. Beth, held Bison to 232 total offense, 69 yards after intermission, 6 of 19 on 3rd down.

Don't know how much more "shut-em-down" is needed....at least this side of Nov. 22.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 22, 2014, 04:57:36 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2014, 04:46:58 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 22, 2014, 10:28:30 AM
...the W & J defense has been good but not shut-em-down for most of the season...
vs. TMC, held Saints to 185 yards in second half and 7 points, 6-16 on 3rd downs in the game.
vs. Grove, held Wolverines to 201 total offense in game, 5-17 on 3rd downs.
vs. Beth, held Bison to 232 total offense, 69 yards after intermission, 6 of 19 on 3rd down.

Don't know how much more "shut-em-down" is needed....at least this side of Nov. 22.

Come on, Bob, I'm trying to find a way to make it sound like a decent game.  I didn't say Case was going to win.  I said that the W & J defense has shown enough cracks to think that Case will score with them for awhile.  Besides...you're kidding me with some of these stats, right?

Thomas More: yardage numbers are skyrocketing these days, but where I come from giving up 452 yards and 7.1 yards per play is not really "holding" anyone to anything.  Even "holding them to 185 yards in the second half" - how is that evidence of "shutdown" defense?  185 yards in a half is still a lot of yards!

Grove City is 0-6 and the worst team in the league.  Carnegie Mellon's less-than-sterling defense, which has yielded 400+ yards several times this season, including against Geneva and Bethany, held Grove City to 265 yards and 10 points.

The Bethany game was probably the best game from the W & J defense this season.  I'll count that one.

Point being, W & J's defense is probably good enough to win the league, but they've yielded at least moderate yardage/points to every opponent with an offensive pulse except for Bethany.  It's not outrageous to see Case and Waynesburg scoring a few times.  Whether either of those teams can hold the Prez under 40 is another question.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2014, 05:24:39 PM
Given what CWRU has done so far, it shouldn't be a "decent game"....

Here's the "point being" regarding W&J's defense:
When the game was hanging in the balance, they've shut-em-down.

Wooster--W&J leading 24-17 at half, held Scots to 93 yards in second half and 0 points.
Westminster--Titans scored mid-third to make it 28-14, recorded 4 first downs the rest of the game.
Carnegie-Mellon--Tartans held to 215 yards (71/quarter) through three and 14 points (42-14 after 45 minutes).
Thomas More--after Hayden's 11-yard run made it 31-28 with 2:26 left in third, the Saints were rolled 23-0 over the final 17 minutes, and were outgained 225-83.
Grove City--game was never hanging in the balance.
Bethany--after W&J took 14-3 lead early in the second, Bison managed 5 first downs and 125 yards the rest of the game.

Is this defense good enough to win in mid-late November?  Don't know.
Certainly has shown enough "shut-em-down" capability with the game up for grabs to get a chance.
That's all.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 22, 2014, 06:17:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2014, 05:24:39 PM
Given what CWRU has done so far, it shouldn't be a "decent game"....

Here's the "point being" regarding W&J's defense:
When the game was hanging in the balance, they've shut-em-down.

Wooster--W&J leading 24-17 at half, held Scots to 93 yards in second half and 0 points.
Westminster--Titans scored mid-third to make it 28-14, recorded 4 first downs the rest of the game.
Carnegie-Mellon--Tartans held to 215 yards (71/quarter) through three and 14 points (42-14 after 45 minutes).
Thomas More--after Hayden's 11-yard run made it 31-28 with 2:26 left in third, the Saints were rolled 23-0 over the final 17 minutes, and were outgained 225-83.
Grove City--game was never hanging in the balance.
Bethany--after W&J took 14-3 lead early in the second, Bison managed 5 first downs and 125 yards the rest of the game.

Bob, I'm hardly a W & J hater here.  I've had them ranked as the best team in the PAC every week.  I fully expect them to win the league.  But if you really think that they're playing shutdown defense, we have a different definition of the term; prior to the Bethany game, they'd given up 14+ points every week, and most of the points are not coming in garbage time (frankly, I would have thought you had a stronger argument if all of those points in those first four games came in the third and fourth quarter, after the games were decided, but that's actually not the case, they seem to give up a few yards and scores early and then buckle down in the fourth quarter). 

Allowing 17 first-half points to Wooster, giving up anything of note to Westminster and CMU (you'll note that CMU's not exactly an offensive juggernaut)...those are not "shutdown" defensive performances.  Good enough to win the league, sure, because they have the league's best offense by a wide margin, and the Bethany performance was their best defensive game of the season. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2014, 09:43:25 PM
Okay.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 25, 2014, 03:25:15 PM
Spartans hold Prez to 1 TD in 1st half.  Int leads to CWRU  TD Block a FG and a PAT return the PAT for 2 pts.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2014, 06:24:23 PM
Sometimes, you have to win when not at your best.

Case held to 94 yards in first half but led, 9-6.
Spartans blocked field goal attempt that ended first possession after 19 plays, then blocked PAT after W&J scored late in the first and returned it 103 yards for a defensive PAT.

CWRU rolled on 17 play drive to start second for a go-ahead td, converting three 3rd downs & twice on 4th down.
Presidents then stopped on down on final two possessions of first half.

Third quarter, W&J got the pick-six from Kelley then forced four straight 3-and-outs.
Presidents offense finished two possessions in third with TDs to lead 27-9,
Defense did not allow CWRU a first down in the third until the final minute of the period.

Quick score for the Spartans pulled CWRU to within 27-16.

W&J stopped on down after 13 plays, taking 6+ minutes off the clock, then forced a punt.
Snap mishandled, passed for -1.

Presidents clinched the win with 33 yard, 10 play drive ending in TD, taking 5:40 off the clcok.

Offense struggled--Coughlin dropped multiple snaps, didn't pass particularly well and still threw for 330+ yards.
Multiple costly penalties, on each of the "stopped on downs" possessions...
Defense held CWRU to 135 yards through 3 quarters, then allowed nearly that much in the final period.

Didn't play up to par, won the game, didn't lose anybody to injury and improved to 7-0.
Sometimes, you have to win when not at your best.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2014, 09:51:27 PM
Geneva makes five picks and dumps Bethany, 20-14.

Waynesburg scores with 1:15 to play to down Thiel, 35-32.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 26, 2014, 09:05:17 AM
The middle part of this league seems to have a lot of parity.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 27, 2014, 07:44:03 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 26, 2014, 09:05:17 AM
The middle part of this league seems to have a lot of parity.

Indeed. We have W & J, Thomas More, Waynesburg, and the Eight Dwarves.

I was afraid of a Bethany letdown a week after the biggest game in years for that program. They're not good enough to just show up and win on a bad day.

Waynesburg only stays in that 3 spot because they've managed to eke out wins on all of their close games, but even they don't really stand that far apart from the rest of the league; they've been winning every game by one score, even against the dregs.

I'll post an updated power ranking later today, but it's pretty obvious where this is going, methinks.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2014, 08:38:12 AM
Yessir -- the league race is over.  Give the trophy and the invite to the Presidents. 

In other news, Hayden is back for TM.  As long as he's healthy against Waynesburg, I don't see a huge issue. 

Bob -- you've seen alot of PAC Football.  Where does he stack-up with what you've seen at RB in this league?  I can think of only one other name who would have been as talented. 

He's re-wrote most of the rushing records.  And let me tell you --- our program at Thomas More has had some DUDES at RB since the first year of play in 1991.  My teammates who haven't seen him play yet have been asking since he broke the record for yards in a game -- is he better than Will Castleberry? And they are shocked that he is.  You can't average 10 yards a carry for an entire season, like he did last year and not be a special back.  Will was a work horse.  I was the QB that day in 1997 when set the game rushing record with 321 on his 52 carries.  Hayden just breaks TD runs.  I've never seen anything like it. 

Anyways -- with him in the lineup, I don't see them losing to Waynesburg or in the Bridge Bowl against Mount St Joe game against Case. 

I think with it being the first game against Case for TMC -- it bodes well unless they have someone who is built like a B S House at LB and can run like a deer who they can have shadow Hayden.


Bob are you receiving my PM's on here?  Or can you leave me a working email address?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 27, 2014, 09:09:55 AM
This week's PAC power rankings:

1. Washington & Jefferson (5-0, 7-0): Clearly the class of the field.  The only thing that can stop them now is themselves.  That game with Waynesburg looks more even on paper than it is; Waynesburg really isn't in their class.

2. Thomas More (5-1, 6-2): W & J totally has their number, but they're good enough to blow everyone else's doors off.

3A. Waynesburg (5-1, 7-1):
3B. Bethany (4-2, 5-3):

The dropoff from #1 and #2 on this list to Waynesburg is MUCH larger than the gap between Waynesburg and everyone else.  The Bethany/Waynesburg debate is interesting; on one hand, Bethany just took a bad loss against Geneva.  On the other hand, Bethany has beaten Waynesburg head-to-head and has played a tougher schedule overall, while Waynesburg's 7-1 record is largely a product of a backloaded schedule (in eight games that have played ONE team with a winning record, Bethany, and they lost that game).  I am keeping them here for now.  Bethany could still take the bronze medal if Waynesburg gets totally blitzed the last two games while Bethany finishes with two convincing wins.  Another Bethany loss, or a sterling Waynesburg effort against #1 and #2, and maybe Waynesburg will get the third spot in the final rankings.

Also, while it seems very unlikely, I must note that at least for now, Waynesburg could still take the PAC playoff berth by beating TMC and W & J in the last two weeks (in that scenario there would only be 2 one-loss teams, and Waynesburg would own a H2H tiebreaker).  I don't think there are any convoluted tiebreaker scenarios forthcoming; if they lost to TMC and beat W & J, there would be a first-place tie between TMC and W & J (one loss each) and the Presidents would take the tiebreaker.  The only possible convoluted tiebreaker involves two W & J losses in the next three weeks, and that looks so improbably that I won't bother breaking it down for now.

5. St. Vincent (3-2, 3-4): St. Vincent, although they lost to Thiel earlier in the season, probably ought to get the #5 spot thanks to wins over Carnegie Mellon and Case Western.

6. Case Western (3-4, 3-4): Kind of weird to rank a team that is likely with a losing conference record this high, but the unbalanced schedule creates those oddities.  Their four PAC losses have come against teams ranked ahead of them on the list and they've beaten CMU, Thiel, and Geneva.  No real argument can be made for ranking any of those teams above Case.

7. Carnegie Mellon (3-4, 3-4): Shootout loss to St. Vincent this week, but earlier wins over Westminster, Geneva, and Grove City merit this ranking.

8. Geneva (1-4, 2-5): Geneva has lost to Carnegie Mellon and Case Western and thus can't really move much higher than this yet, but the win over Bethany was nice.  A win over St. Vincent or Westminster could keep them here.

9. Thiel (1-4, 2-5): So, uh, Thiel lost to Westminster, but they also beat St. Vincent, lost to Case by a TD, lost to Waynesburg by a FG...I think this is about right for now.  Next week's game vs. Carnegie Mellon will sort out the middle of these rankings a little more.

10. Westminster (1-4, 1-6): You know, this is a deceiving 1-6, not that it's much consolation.  They've beaten Thiel and lost close games against Carnegie Mellon, Bethany, and Waynesburg (all of whom sport much better records) and, get this, a close opening loss to a now 4-3 Hiram team.

11. Grove City (0-5, 0-7): Besides the top, sadly, this is the clearest spot in the rankings.  Can the Wolverines muster some energy for the last two games?  Westminster and Thiel both are beatable.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2014, 12:13:00 PM
I'll get to the RB question later today.

Condolences to the Waynesburg University football family.
I just read in the Observer-Reporter (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/observer-reporter/obituary.aspx?n=helen-grace-mccolgin-wiley&pid=172967301) of the passing of the widow of John F. Wiley, former Pittsburgh Steelers player, Waynesburg coach and benefactor.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2014, 12:18:20 PM
Got an email from you, tried to reply and got blocked....?
Don't have any "My Message" stuff from you.

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Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 29, 2014, 11:16:10 AM
This week's games:

#8 Geneva at #1 Washington & Jefferson: Geneva is coming off their best effort of the season, but that won't cut it this week.  The Prez roll again.

#2 Thomas More at #3 Waynesburg: Looks good on paper...if you just look at the records.  But TMC has been blitzing teams all season that Waynesburg is just eking their way past.  Waynesburg must win this week to keep alive their hopes of stealing the AQ from W & J.  I do think sometimes winning (even ugly) starts to breed a winning attitude, so perhaps the Jackets will play their best at home when they need it the most, but realistically TMC looks like the better side here.

#3 Bethany at #11 Grove City: Can Bethany recover from last week's letdown loss and secure their first winning season since 2001?  I think so.

#10 Westminster at #5 St. Vincent: St. Vincent, also, seeks to keep alive hopes for a 5-5 or 6-4 season that would represent a huge step forward after two straight winless campaigns.  Westminster is a little better than their record looks, though, with four losses by seven points or less; this is a pretty even matchup despite the discordance in records and my unofficial PAC rankings.

#6 Case Western at UAA opponent WashU: Spartans are almost done with PAC play for the season.  They should have a decent chance in this one against a WashU squad that's really fallen off from last season.

#9 Thiel at #7 Carnegie Mellon: Tartans need to rebound from last week's shootout loss at St. Vincent to keep their own hopes at a .500 season alive.  Thiel is 2-5 but has been generally competitive all season.  Tossup game here.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 30, 2014, 03:15:37 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I am not going to look up 221 pages to find the answer.  I live in the Pittsburgh South Hills but my work takes me to Columbus OH, Dayton OH, Cincinnati, OH, Florence KY, and all the small towns in between.  Last week I drove past a Thomas More bus on 70 heading to PA.  My question is how did a small college in NKY get in an athletic conference with other small colleges that are over 5 hours away?  Was there really no other closer options?  I can understand football to a degree after all it is 5 trips a year to make.  But all the other sports has to add up cost real quick.  Does anyone know the history on this?

Sorry if this is coming across as confertational or rude, I do not mean to do that.  But as a person who makes these trips 3-5 times a week with a Ford F-150, I am perplexed that Thomas More does not have better options to save travel time and money.

Mike
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 30, 2014, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 30, 2014, 03:15:37 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I am not going to look up 221 pages to find the answer.  I live in the Pittsburgh South Hills but my work takes me to Columbus OH, Dayton OH, Cincinnati, OH, Florence KY, and all the small towns in between.  Last week I drove past a Thomas More bus on 70 heading to PA.  My question is how did a small college in NKY get in an athletic conference with other small colleges that are over 5 hours away?  Was there really no other closer options?  I can understand football to a degree after all it is 5 trips a year to make.  But all the other sports has to add up cost real quick.  Does anyone know the history on this?

Sorry if this is coming across as confertational or rude, I do not mean to do that.  But as a person who makes these trips 3-5 times a week with a Ford F-150, I am perplexed that Thomas More does not have better options to save travel time and money.

Mike

You should look at the UMAC and E8, they have teams that travel more than that at times. I know in the E 8 it was to maintain its AQ and for Salisbury and Frostburg State, it was a chance to be in a conference which allowed them to compete for a championship that came with Automatic Bid and still have a chance at Pool C, it worked for the first couple years for Salisbury, Frostburg not so much.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on October 30, 2014, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 30, 2014, 03:15:37 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I am not going to look up 221 pages to find the answer.  I live in the Pittsburgh South Hills but my work takes me to Columbus OH, Dayton OH, Cincinnati, OH, Florence KY, and all the small towns in between.  Last week I drove past a Thomas More bus on 70 heading to PA.  My question is how did a small college in NKY get in an athletic conference with other small colleges that are over 5 hours away?  Was there really no other closer options?  I can understand football to a degree after all it is 5 trips a year to make.  But all the other sports has to add up cost real quick.  Does anyone know the history on this?

Sorry if this is coming across as confertational or rude, I do not mean to do that.  But as a person who makes these trips 3-5 times a week with a Ford F-150, I am perplexed that Thomas More does not have better options to save travel time and money.

Mike

Sometimes it's about mission and values. The SAA schools stretch from Kentucky (Centre) to Georgia (Berry) and West to Arkansas (Hendrix). The UAA, depending on the sport, stretches from New York City (NYU) to Atlanta (Emory), to St. Louis (Washington U) and north to Chicago (Chicago).

Other times it's simply because those are the only available D3 schools. The ASC has an 800+ mile bus ride between Louisiana College and Sul Ross State. The USASC has a similar trip, although one that ends next year, between CNU in Virginia and Huntingdon College in Montgomery AL.

TMC might be closer to the OAC or HCAC, but they are a bit of a geographical orphan, especially for football. The only other DIII football school in Kentucky is Centre, a member of the SAA that is spread out everywhere. MSJ is close by, but they just ended the Bridge Bowl games after repeated spankings. I doubt the OAC wants another member, and the HCAC isn't as competitive a conference as the PAC. It's a two way street. You have to want to be in the conference, and they have to want you. TMC and the PAC may not be a perfect fit, but it probably is the best of a tough situation.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 30, 2014, 04:03:55 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 30, 2014, 03:15:37 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I am not going to look up 221 pages to find the answer.  I live in the Pittsburgh South Hills but my work takes me to Columbus OH, Dayton OH, Cincinnati, OH, Florence KY, and all the small towns in between.  Last week I drove past a Thomas More bus on 70 heading to PA.  My question is how did a small college in NKY get in an athletic conference with other small colleges that are over 5 hours away?  Was there really no other closer options?  I can understand football to a degree after all it is 5 trips a year to make.  But all the other sports has to add up cost real quick.  Does anyone know the history on this?

Sorry if this is coming across as confertational or rude, I do not mean to do that.  But as a person who makes these trips 3-5 times a week with a Ford F-150, I am perplexed that Thomas More does not have better options to save travel time and money.

Mike

SaintsFAN will be your man for an answer here.  Thomas More used to be in the HCAC.  I know not their exact reason for moving to the PAC.

As D3MAFAN just pointed out, some conferences in more remote locations have quite a bit more travel than Thomas More does.  Division III football has teams slotted in a rather odd distribution around the country.  I wrote a post once with the # of teams in various states, but D3 schools are generally clustered in a few dense regions of the country (PA, NY, NJ, OH have a lot; Wisconsin/Minnesota/Illinois have a lot), with large regions having no D3 presence at all (i.e. no D3 schools in Florida, I think only one in Georgia, fairly few in the South in general, and no D3 schools currently in Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, etc).

Even once we leave the realm of the geographically-remote outposts of Division III, conferences are arranged for varying reasons, not all of which are geographic location and money.  Some conferences are all schools in the same state, or in a fairly small geographic footprint; sometimes that is for convenience, sometimes it's because the schools are all similar institutions and choose to align.

Thomas More is one of those schools that's in an area with relatively few Division III counterparts. 

Let's start by looking to the south from TMC's northern Kentucky location: Centre is the only other D3 team in Kentucky, 2 hours to the South.  Centre plays in the SAA, a conference with mostly teams that would be even farther away from TMC (i.e. Hendrix, Berry, Millsaps, etc are all 6+ hours from TMC, some much farther than that).

There are three D3 teams in Tennessee, the closest of which is Maryville, 4 hours away.  Maryville plays in the USA South conference, most of whose members are 6+ hours from TMC.  Rhodes and Sewanee are both even farther away (6-7 hours) and play in the aforementioned SAA.

So there's not really a logical conference of teams to the south of TMC.  Looking to the North:

Ohio and Indiana are teeming with Division III teams, mostly in the OAC, NCAC, and HCAC.  Well, they left the HCAC, I'll wait for SaintsFAN to chime in there, so let's cross off the HCAC.  The OAC is full, with 10 teams, all Ohio schools.  I suppose TMC would probably have less travel if they played in the OAC than the PAC, but it wouldn't be reduced by that much.  Many of the schools are 2-3 hours away, but the northernmost Ohio schools are going to be as far as 4-5 hours on a bus.  Besides, the OAC probably wouldn't take them anyway.

Same deal with the NCAC.  It's already playing with a pretty full deck, for one, and for two, you're just swapping out 4-5 hour bus rides to the PAC schools for 2-3 hour bus rides to Ohio and Indiana schools in most cases, whether you move to the OAC or NCAC.

If Thomas More's sole concern was minimizing travel, the OAC and NCAC schools collectively would be a little closer, but even that move is just giving them 2-4 hour bus trips instead of 5-hour bus trips.  There's not really a local conference that would keep everyone within a 2-hour span of them. 

*Edited to add: jknezek beat me to a couple of these points.  Kudos and +K.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 30, 2014, 09:39:49 PM
Thank you both for your reply's, it makes more sense now.  I didn't realize how few options they had.  Growing up in WPA I was just spoiled with both the PSAC & PAC being made up of a lot of local teams with short travel, just never put much thought that not everywhere is like that.  So when I saw that bus on 70 and I was on my return trip home after leaving at 5 am and paying $85+ to fill truck up, it got me thinking why they do it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2014, 08:34:07 AM
Very few options, as exTP and jknezek have stated.

Thomas More wasn't in the Heartland, per se.  Thats just something we said (below in my signature -- HCAC Champs) after TMC beat all of the HCAC Teams on their schedule in 2000 and 2001 as they prepared for what they thought was an entry into the HCAC.  This move was blocked by Hanover and MSJ Administrations who didn't feel like Thomas More College quite measured up to their supposedly superior institutions.  Interestingly, Thomas More played their first season as an Independent and then joined the AMC (Association of Mideast Colleges) prior to the 1991 season along with MSJ, Wilmington, Bluffton and Defiance.  For the 5 years that conference existed -- Thomas More won or shared the title every season. 

After the 1995 Bridge Bowl (a 66-27 TMC win), MSJ stepped away from the series for the 1st time and thus the AMC went away.  Thomas More was again competing as an Independent -- but as a result of their early success, it was hard to find opponents in the Region who would play Thomas More.  As a result, we barnstormed across the country -- playing teams like Albion (1994 National Champ), Alma, Maryville, CMU, Chapman, Howard Payne, UW-Osh Kosh, Merchant Marine Academy, Alfred, and Illinois Wesleyan in D3.  Teams like Gannon and Northwood (MI) in D2, teams like Kentucky Wesleyan, Campbellsville, Knoxville College and Mount Scenario College in NAIA, and teams like Morehead State in what was D1-AA. 

As you can imagine - playing a national schedule is not the cheapest way to run a program and being that MULTIPLE sports were in the same boat, Thomas More jumped at the chance to compete in the PAC.  It is expensive for the college to compete in a PA-based conference but they at least know where 80% of their games are going to be played and I do think it saves them money over what we were doing previous to the PAC. 

Thomas More has been blessed to have a new school President who values athletics as a means to increase enrollment and fundraising.  I'm not sure if they'll stay in the PAC but as was mentioned here, the options aren't numerous.  They don't fit in with the NCAC Academically and the HCAC won't take them because the perceptions of Thomas More's football program. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2014, 09:37:54 AM
Quote from: mikefln on October 30, 2014, 09:39:49 PM
Growing up in WPA I was just spoiled with both the PSAC & PAC being made up of a lot of local teams with short travel, just never put much thought that not everywhere is like that.

No sweat, man. 

I grew up in eastern PA and likewise followed the plethora of PA schools in both Division II and Division III; I went to an assortment of football & wrestling camps at PSAC schools (Kutztown, Lock Haven, Shippensburg, and Edinboro), and my father being a Muhlenberg College alum, I was pretty familiar with the D3 conferences in eastern & central PA (Centennial Conference and the MAC).  Once I came to Pittsburgh for college, I quickly learned much of the PAC because in my four years CMU played half the PAC (Grove City 4x, Bethany 4x, Thiel 2x, Westminster 1x plus a yearly scrimmage with Waynesburg).  So I've always been in an area that was pretty thick with D2 and D3 schools, as you mentioned. 

It's easy to forget that not everyone is so lucky...if I remember correctly, PA has the most D3 football teams (25) of any state in the country; obviously that's confounded by size and population of the states, but still, point is there are a LOT of D3 schools concentrated in PA compared to other states, and it's pretty easy to find a home for league games and find non-league opponents that are pretty close by. 

In contrast, Texas only has 9 D3 schools, split across two conferences, and some of them have 800-mile trips for conference games.  California only has 8, all in one conference; while most of them are close to one another in Southern California for league games, to play a non-league game they're either flying to Texas or driving/flying wayyyyy north to Oregon/Washington.

Sorry for the overkill of info, I just got fascinated by the topic and delved pretty deeply into it.

Oh, and SaintsFAN, thanks for the clarification on Thomas More and the HCAC...I always took that thing in your signature line at face value, lol. 

It sounds like TMC in the 1990's was in a position very similar to Wesley's recent run.  A powerful team without a home that had to look pretty hard to find games.  It's kind of remarkable, looking at that list you rattled off...over the years, comprised of teams currently in the MIAA, USASC, UAA/PAC, SCIAC, ASC, WIAC, NEFC, E8, CCIW...that's a lot of different conferences, and that's before we even got to the non-division games!  Yikes.

I think the PAC seems as good of a fit as they'll find in their current locale.  The OAC and NCAC would cut travel slightly but neither is likely to invite TMC anytime soon.  HCAC, as you said, seems unlikely to take them (given that MSJ just dropped them again, I can't imagine MSJ would allow them into the conference).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GillCJ1 on October 31, 2014, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2014, 09:37:54 AM
In contrast, Texas only has 9 D3 schools, split across two conferences, and some of them have 800-mile trips for conference games.  California only has 8, all in one conference; while most of them are close to one another in Southern California for league games, to play a non-league game they're either flying to Texas or driving/flying wayyyyy north to Oregon/Washington.

Yeah, it makes it pretty hard for some schools to make those trips.  Not to mention, as a fan of a D3 TX school, I have to really commit myself when buying tickets for certain away games (I'm looking at you Sul Ross State).
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2014, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2014, 09:37:54 AM
Oh, and SaintsFAN, thanks for the clarification on Thomas More and the HCAC...I always took that thing in your signature line at face value, lol. 

;D
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2014, 01:21:17 PM
Pat, with a comment in Triple Take that I happen to disagree with:

Which team put up huge numbers last week that it won't duplicate this week?

Pat's take: Thomas More. The Saints have been back on cruise control the past three weeks after W&J caused them to downshift out of the tie for first in the PAC and the Top 25. They will not be putting up a 42-3/49-7/64-7 score against Waynesburg, to be sure, and they might not even put up a winning score.


I don't think so.  I know that Waynesburg should be in playoff mode this week, and they're playing at home, and that they technically have more to play for than TMC does right now, so it's certainly possible that Waynesburg will make this a close game if TMC no-shows and/or the Jackets play their best game of the season.  But Waynesburg is a pretty flimsy 7-1, with several close (like, really genuinely close, not "35-14 with a window dressing TD" close) shaves against some of those teams that TMC has blown off the field.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2014, 10:19:16 AM
Welp, I was wrong about that one

This week's PAC power rankings:

1. Washington & Jefferson (6-0, 8-0): has all but clinched the Pool A bid.  Would have to lose both of the next two games to fall out of it.

2. Thomas More (6-1, 7-2): outgained Waynesburg 478-266 and seemed comfortably in control of the gameplay most of the way, but didn't put the Jackets away for good until the final horn.

3. Waynesburg (5-2, 7-2): being a tough out against TMC is enough for me to slide them just ahead of Bethany in these rankings, despite the H2H loss, because of Bethany's bad loss to Geneva.

4. Bethany (5-2, 6-3): congratulations to the Bison on clinching their first winning season since 2001 with the win over Grove City.

Beneath that...oy vey, more turmoil.  Thiel and Westminster, the two teams that had been lingering near the bottom, beat teams that previously had marginally-better records to bring spots 5-10 back into a completely impossible cluster:

St. Vincent (3-3, 3-5):
Case Western (3-4, 3-5):
Carnegie Mellon (3-5, 3-5):
Geneva (1-5, 2-6):
Thiel (2-4, 3-5):
Westminster (2-4, 2-6):

These teams have literally all beaten one another and I think it's pretty much impossible to disentangle which is actually the best of this group.

11. Grove City (0-6, 0-8): two more chances, guys.  Keep battling.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2014, 04:42:24 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2014, 10:19:16 AM
Welp, I was wrong about that one

I don't think you were WRONG, so to speak.  It very easily could have happened as you laid it out. 

Three drives in the 4th Quarter had promise but TMC didn't come away with points from them:

*A holding penalty on 2nd and 8 from the Waynesburg 48 yard line nullified a 13 yard completion.  TMC punted after Hayden got half the yardage on 2nd down and Gebhardt threw incomplete on 3rd and 9. 

*A failure to convert on 4th and 3 from the Waynesburg 14 (along a personal foul called after the play on TMC)

*A blocked FG on 4th and Goal from the Waynesburg 8

*Waynesburg's 71 yard "drive" included by far their longest pass play of the day.. a 34 yard pass play which was directly followed by a Pass Interference Penalty on TMC, putting the ball at the 4.  Waynesburg scored on the next snap.

In fact, Waynesburg's 1st TD was set up by TMC after another personal foul following a punt play which featured a 23 yard return.  They had the ball 1st and 10 at the TMC 21 yard line after that.

I don't think TMC played particularly well -- I feel like this is a good game to get out of the way before they play Case on Saturday.  I also don't feel like they earned 9 penalties for 95 yards, but they should be used to that when traveling to PA to play their games. 

I also think there's a very big gap between #2 and #3 in this conference right now.  I have no idea how Waynesburg would win 7 games in another conference.  There was no rushing attack from them (45 yards on 26 atts //without the sacks counted it was 28 attempts for 58 yards) and they averaged 5.4 yards on their 41 passing attempts.  Without penalties and the punt return, they don't even score in this game.   Why Waynesburg is 3rd best in the PAC this season is without a doubt because of their defense -- they held Hayden to a long run of 21 yards in this game, though they gave up some explosive passing plays as a result of their focus on #30.  But still, with 42 rushing attempts and 23 passing attempts -- Thomas More wanted to run the ball. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2014, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2014, 04:42:24 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2014, 10:19:16 AM
Welp, I was wrong about that one

I don't think you were WRONG, so to speak.  It very easily could have happened as you laid it out...

I also think there's a very big gap between #2 and #3 in this conference right now.  I have no idea how Waynesburg would win 7 games in another conference. 

Meh, I was wrong because I expected TMC to win something like 42-13.  While TMC did have a big statistical edge, the game wasn't actually decided til the final gun, and Waynesburg deserves at least some credit for playing it closer than I thought they would.

While Waynesburg has enjoyed a season full of close wins against so-so competition, I try not to rain too much on anyone's parade when they're enjoying a winning season.  They deserve some credit for actually winning most of those close games (somebody has to come in third in the conference).  And, while it's easy to say that we have no idea how the Jackets could win seven games elsewhere...have ya seen the state of some other conferences?  The PAC is a dumpster fire after the top 2 (although that makes it fun because everyone is capable of beating everyone else), but so are most leagues.  The MIAC and Empire 8 are some of the only places that run very deep with real bona-fide contenders beyond the top 2-3 teams. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2014, 09:26:54 AM
I sent you a PM, ex-TP. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2014, 11:26:07 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2014, 09:26:54 AM
I sent you a PM, ex-TP.

Received and replied.  LMK if it doesn't come through.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2014, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2014, 11:26:07 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2014, 09:26:54 AM
I sent you a PM, ex-TP.

Received and replied.  LMK if it doesn't come through.

Got it.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 06, 2014, 11:28:00 AM
I don't know, but I got a weird feeling that the committee is going to do something unique this year and it involves Thomas More. I know the W&J result doesn't look to well, but they have a comparable (and yes I know that is a bad metric) win against a common opponent with that of  the #2N and IMHO played the #2S team the closest all season it was 28-14 with 5 minutes to go.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2014, 12:33:15 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 06, 2014, 11:28:00 AM
I don't know, but I got a weird feeling that the committee is going to do something unique this year and it involves Thomas More. I know the W&J result doesn't look to well, but they have a comparable (and yes I know that is a bad metric) win against a common opponent with that of  the #2N and IMHO played the #2S team the closest all season it was 28-14 with 5 minutes to go.

I'd love for you to be right -- but with TLU, Centre, and Muhlenberg ahead of them right now -- they need some end-of-season craziness to happen with those three teams to even make the discussion as the 1st team in the South.  They need to be 1st in line, IMO. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2014, 12:58:10 PM
Nice challenge ahead of Thomas More tomorrow, I guess.  Statistically, CWRU is very good against the run.  A closer look at the numbers reveals 38 yards given up against Geneva and 39 given up against Carnegie Mellon.  However, Bethany ran for over 200 on them and Waynesburg had 168. 

In what is probably Dom Hayden's last home game for Thomas More -- I think HOW they run the ball in the first half will dictate whether or not you're seeing #30 as a decoy or an active participant in the game plan for half #2 -- he's a selfless player.  He wears down the defenses when he gets carries in the first half -- and breaks long ones in the 2nd when teams get tired of tackling a 220 pound fire hydrant with 4.5 speed.  If CWRU turns Hayden into a decoy, then Bobby Leonard and Goose Cohorn will have big days.  I know what Case is going to do, but I'd rather they play coverage so we can see a 30 carry effort from Hayden.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 08, 2014, 06:21:52 PM
Highlights of the day were the weather and meeting SaintsFAN.

As far as the game itself, both frosh QBs performed well, alternating starting with about 5 mins left in the 3rd.  D was disappointing, although 13 TMC points were from two pick-sixes and Dishong wasn't dressed.  The O-line was missing some starters as well.

Disappointed to see Hayden still in well into the 4th quarter with the Saints up 32.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2014, 04:37:16 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 08, 2014, 06:21:52 PM
Highlights of the day were the weather and meeting SaintsFAN.

As far as the game itself, both frosh QBs performed well, alternating starting with about 5 mins left in the 3rd.  D was disappointing, although 13 TMC points were from two pick-sixes and Dishong wasn't dressed.  The O-line was missing some starters as well.

Disappointed to see Hayden still in well into the 4th quarter with the Saints up 32.

Nice to meet you as well, ADL70.  I remain impressed with how long you've been a D3 Football Fan and attending the Championship game at the College Hall of Fame up the road from here.

The game was about how I expected it to play out -- there were some players from CWRU who were out and TMC's offense has been playing well the last 5 games and Gebhardt was really accurate with his throws and the WR's made some plays after the catch.  The future at RB showed itself to be in good hands with Tarrant breaking the 82 yard TD run.  And they sent off the Seniors with a good win against a team that will be better in the years to come in PAC action. 

Hayden had a good day with over 175 and 4 TD's on the ground.  This is where we disagree -- he's a 5th year senior (injury redshirt) who's meant alot to the program and playing in probably his last game as a Saint -- at home.  He only carried the ball 4 times and caught a pass in the 4th -- and he didn't play after that.  He also played the 4th Quarter with the 2nd string guys in there.  He watched the last 8+ minutes.  I thought we'd see a little more of him, to be honest. 

I don't think TMC was trying to run it up. 

Maybe I'll run into you next year in Cleveland.  Thanks for sticking around to meet me.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 09, 2014, 09:24:25 PM
Didn't mean to imply that TMC was running up the score.  I can certainly see your point.  Knee jerk response on my part.  I did overlook that it was TMC's last game, unless they are an ECAC member.

If Hayden had ripped  off the 82 yarder I might have had to  stick with my gut though.

Wait till next year!

Then we don't meet for at least 2 years.

The 66 the Saints put on the board is the highest score given up by the Spartans since Allegheny scored 69 in 1994.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2014, 09:47:19 PM
No worries -- I thought maybe you were thinking we had one more game left ... which, believe me, we'd love to still be playing the Bridge Bowl as its turned into the Thomas More Bowl the past few years.  The game in 2012 gave Thomas More the chance to run up the score (after MSJ had danced on our mid-field logo when they came onto the field which immediately followed a week in which their players talked trash on Twitter about which D3 Team owned Cincinnati).. so that resulted in a 75-6 thrashing which wasn't even that close.  Thomas More actually had two TD's called back in the 4th Quarter due to penalty or it would've been much, much worse.  Last year, MSJ's prize D1 QB transfer QUIT with a questionable injury in the first half.  Not that it mattered, TMC won 59-13.  The only reason the Saints took their foot off the gas in that one was because of an off-the-field tragedy the Sunday before the game .  Maybe one year they'll get enough D1 transfers into the program in Delhi, who actually go to class and last more than one season and then they'll decide to try the series again -- on a one year basis.  Thats the best we can hope for... this IS the 2nd time they've halted the Bridge Bowl Series.  Both times after realizing they don't have what it takes to compete with Thomas More on the field.  This time, their coaches took a vote (the Head Coach didn't participate, he left it up to the assistants who to a man, didn't think could compete with, much less beat Thomas More and it would affect their recruiting).  The stated NEW goal of the program is compete for HCAC Championships with a bonus game in the playoffs being viewed as just that... a bonus.  Well they're 0-1 with their new, less-than-lofty goal.  They can't beat Franklin, either.  I wonder if the HCAC officials will let the MSJ staff vote them off the schedule as a result, also?  One piece of advice if they are able to vote Franklin off the schedule, give Franklin time to find another opponent and don't lie to them all off season about not dropping the game.  They dropped Thomas More in MAY and luckily nobody likes to play Wesley and Thomas More booked the game as their Opener. 

But I digress - MSJ is the ONLY team Thomas More would willingly run up the score on.  But they earned that.  Much respect from Crestview Hills to the CWRU team.  There wasn't any chippiness or cheap shots when they found themselves down big.  As I said, I like Greg Debeljak.  I think he runs a classy program. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2014, 04:20:18 PM
Getting caught up on my reading...

the advantage to the PresAC for adding TMC was they were the 7th school and got the PresAC its AQ bid, back in the day.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2014, 04:40:20 PM
Waynesburg over W&J???  Absolutely bananas.  I don't see how they scored 31 points on W&J. 

Definitely no home game for W&J in the tournament.  They just made their road to Salem a little bit harder.  They'll be a tough out for sure, though. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2014, 04:51:51 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2014, 04:40:20 PM
Definitely no home game for W&J in the tournament.....
Not so fast, SaintsFAN.  With the economics of D3, the Islanders may make it very possible for W&J to still host.
TLU will almost certainly go to UMHB.
Chapman will almost certainly go to Linfield....
With that, W&J is definitely in the host-capable group.

Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2014, 04:40:20 PM
...They just made their road to Salem a little bit harder.
Not sure of the real difference between "Road Closed 1,000 feet" and "Road Closed 500 feet"....lol
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 18, 2014, 11:19:16 AM
All PAC

http://pacathletics.org/news/2014/11/17/FB_1117141239.aspx
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 23, 2014, 04:08:39 PM
Quiet here.

Presidents managed to beat Witt without much from Ruffing, who I understand has an injury. But they still had Coughlin and the defense which accounted for 9 turnovers.

We will be leaving Tennessee tomorrow on our way eventually to Cleveland for Thanksgiving. MAY stop in Alliance on Saturday for a few hours on our way home. I don't think W&J's win over Witt was a big upset, but a win Saturday over the Mount would certainly qualify as one.

Looking to next year, TM's Hayden is gone, the heart of Waynesburg's team graduates, and most of W&J's key players will be back. Not sure about other conference teams.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 24, 2014, 01:17:25 PM
Congrats to the Presidents of W&J, I had you guys favored in my pick'em and you guys didn't disappoint, you guys made plays all game. Nevertheless, with the close games and minor upsets this past weekend, it makes me wonder what Thomas More would have done in the playoffs and if W&J can actually play Mount Union close or pull even an upset. Although it was the first game of the season, Thomas More has played an awesome Wesley team the closest out of all Div III opponents and then got handled by W&J. Playing the comparative score card/analogy, Wesley has been playing at a level they were at (especially offensively) when they played Mount Union last year within the last 3 quarters. I think W&J can keep it close, but Mount does change gears in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 24, 2014, 01:40:39 PM
Another congrats-to-the-Prez here.  I was out of town (and away from computer) to watch my HS in the state playoffs, so I didn't post anything here, but I'm glad they won.  Mount is no doubt a heavy favorite but W & J is not likely to be intimidated, having played the Raiders tough in the playoffs last season and scrimmaged them (right? As far as I know, Mount and the Prez still scrimmage before the season).  Sirianni being a Mount alum, I'm sure he relishes this matchup a few rounds into the playoffs.

Re: Thomas More, I do think they would have been capable of winning a game or two depending on the playoff matchup; this is usually true of the 5-10 best Pool C teams not selected, really.  But I like the AQ system the way it is, and am a firm believer that any team who did not win their conference title knows that they've left it up to the Fates when they could have won it & earned their way in for sure.

Will discuss next year in detail when the time comes, WashJeff68.  I'll be only to glad to do so in a few weeks!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2014, 04:22:14 PM
Dom Hayden named as one of 10 finalists for the Gagliardi Trophy.  Joins Zach Autenreib as the only two finalists in Thomas More's short, but successful history. 

Looking at the list of Volunteer Activities he's participated in versus the other 9 Finalists, he's going to be tough to beat.  Dude went to Costa Rica.  Check it out on the Front Page ( you know, www.d3football.com) :)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 25, 2014, 09:22:08 PM
Wouldn't be as quiet 68, if more teams had followers who posted.

Hope you'll stick around  and  contribute more.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 08, 2014, 03:55:59 PM
Congrats to Domonique Hayden of Thomas More in being named offensive player of the year for the South Region. 

Hayden is also on the South Region 1st Team at RB and OT Jake Henderson is on the third team at OT.


Pretty good year for the Saints with the awards and expect them to keep coming.  I do believe Hayden has a shot at the Gagliardi with his off the field and on the field accomplishments.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 10, 2014, 02:04:21 PM
Grove City's Chris Smith to Retire following 2015 season, GCC alum Andrew DiDonato to succeed

GROVE CITY, Pa. -- Head football coach Chris Smith '72 has notified the College that he will retire at the end of the 2015 season after more than 30 years of dedicated service to the program. 

Grove City College alumnus Andrew DiDonato '10, a four-year starter at quarterback for the Wolverines from 2006-2009, will succeed Smith as head coach, effective with the 2016 season.  He will join the coaching staff this January as offensive coordinator and will work closely with Smith during the 2015 season to ensure a seamless transition as he assumes the head coach role after Smith's retirement.

Smith has guided the football program for 31 seasons and is the all-time wins leader in the history of Wolverine football.  Most notably, he earned national and regional acclaim including Presidents' Athletic Conference championships in 1997 and 1998, and runner-up finishes in 1999 and 2000. He coached eight players to All-American status and five of his former players landed on the PAC's 60th Anniversary team last August.  Four players earned CoSIDA Academic All-American honors, while three players received NCAA Postgraduate Scholarships during his tenure.

As a starting safety from 1968-1971, he led the Wolverines in interceptions all four years and holds the program record with 22 career interceptions.  After graduating in 1972, Smith returned to Grove City College in 1979 to serve as assistant football and track coach.  The College promoted Smith to head football coach in 1984 and he served as athletic director from 1996 to 2003. In 1997, Smith was named Division III Coach of the Year by the Metropolitan New York Football Writers Association.

"For more than three decades, Coach Smith's unwavering dedication to Wolverine football has been a blessing to Grove City College," said College President Paul J. McNulty.  "Our program has been fortunate to have an excellent teacher and leader of young men in Coach Smith.  His mentorship helped to shape scholar athletes whose on-field success mirrored success in the classroom and later, in life. We thank Coach Smith and want him to know that he will always be part of the legacy of athletic excellence at Grove City College."

DiDonato is in his third year at two-time WPIAL Class AA champion South Fayette High School, serving as offensive coordinator the past two years. In that role, he successfully directs an explosive offensive system that features Pennsylvania's all-time leader in passing yardage, quarterback Brett Brumbaugh. DiDonato has also coached at the University of Buffalo and Peters Township High School. 

"Having known Andrew DiDonato for many years as coach and colleague, he is an excellent choice to lead the next generation of Wolverine football and I'm delighted that he is joining our staff," said Coach Smith. "As I prepare to embark upon my final year as head coach, I'm excited about the prospects for the 2015 season and I am confident in Andrew's experience and ability to lead our program for many years to come." 

DiDonato said, "Grove City College is a special place for my family and me, so it's my honor to be selected to continue to grow a solid program.  I thank President McNulty and Coach Smith for entrusting me with this opportunity."

A native of Bridgeville, Pa., DiDonato graduated as Grove City College's record holder in career passing yards (7,509), pass completions (750), and touchdown passes (49).  He also holds the Wolverines' season and game records in each of those three categories.  DiDonato concluded his career as a student athlete by earning the College's Sportsman of the Year award in 2010.

He earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Management in 2010 and a master's degree in Exercise Science from California University of Pennsylvania in 2011.  He currently serves on the board for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes in western Pennsylvania and is the football camp director and coaches' ministry director for that organization. 

DiDonato will teach Exercise Science and Physical Education courses at Grove City College, in addition to his football responsibilities.  DiDonato and his wife, Andrea '09, currently reside in Cranberry Township.



Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 31, 2014, 01:54:22 PM
Wow.  Big news.  And it makes me feel kind of old...I played (indirectly; we both played offense) against DiDonato.

I am somewhat surprised that they're willing to turn it over to DiDonato straight out of HS coaching (with just one transition year as OC) but perhaps the unique nature of Grove City lends itself to hiring an alumnus as HC, and DiDonato certainly has the look of someone who could be a lifer in this position if he does well.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 02, 2015, 06:44:16 PM
ExTartanPlayer, at the risk of piling on the "feel kind of old" thing, I'm gonna guess you played "against" this DiDonato's older brother Dave....

If you played against Andrew (Grove City Class of 2010), you're not really all that old....early 30's at most.
If you played against Dave (Grove City Class of 2005), okay, then you're mid-30s perhaps....

Rolling quickly upon double-nickels, neither of those age categories strikes me as "feel kind of old"....lol
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on January 05, 2015, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on January 02, 2015, 06:44:16 PM
ExTartanPlayer, at the risk of piling on the "feel kind of old" thing, I'm gonna guess you played "against" this DiDonato's older brother Dave....

If you played against Andrew (Grove City Class of 2010), you're not really all that old....early 30's at most.
If you played against Dave (Grove City Class of 2005), okay, then you're mid-30s perhaps....

Rolling quickly upon double-nickels, neither of those age categories strikes me as "feel kind of old"....lol

Well, come to think of it, I played against both (I'm 28-turning-29, haha).  I was on the CMU team from 2004 through 2007, meaning that I overlapped with Dave for the 2004 season (his senior year, my freshman year) and with Andrew for the 2006 and 2007 seasons (my junior/senior year with his freshman/sophomore year).  I do vividly remember our coaches mentioning that Grove City had landed a very good freshman QB in our preparations for the game in my junior season, and hinting that Grove City might change their offense away from the traditional wing-T into more of a spread look to fit his talents.

I didn't play "directly" against Andrew, since he was a QB and I was an offensive lineman.  But I surely do remember him.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dr. Acula on January 05, 2015, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 31, 2014, 01:54:22 PM
Wow.  Big news.  And it makes me feel kind of old...I played (indirectly; we both played offense) against DiDonato.

I am somewhat surprised that they're willing to turn it over to DiDonato straight out of HS coaching (with just one transition year as OC) but perhaps the unique nature of Grove City lends itself to hiring an alumnus as HC, and DiDonato certainly has the look of someone who could be a lifer in this position if he does well.

At the risk of being an idiot can I ask what the unique nature of GC is?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on January 05, 2015, 04:36:33 PM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on January 05, 2015, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 31, 2014, 01:54:22 PM
Wow.  Big news.  And it makes me feel kind of old...I played (indirectly; we both played offense) against DiDonato.

I am somewhat surprised that they're willing to turn it over to DiDonato straight out of HS coaching (with just one transition year as OC) but perhaps the unique nature of Grove City lends itself to hiring an alumnus as HC, and DiDonato certainly has the look of someone who could be a lifer in this position if he does well.

At the risk of being an idiot can I ask what the unique nature of GC is?

GC has a fairly strong Christian focus. While they aren't the only college that does so, it is a pretty small minority of schools that require students to attend a certain number of chapel services per semester. I'm sure there is more to it, but that's the thing I remember most from an acquaintance who attended there a while ago.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dr. Acula on January 05, 2015, 05:03:43 PM
Got it, thanks.  That makes sense.  I had a couple guys I played sports with in HS go to GC to play football.  They were both down to GC and Malone which is a pretty strict Christian school in Canton so I guess I should have put that together.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: JS342 on January 07, 2015, 02:14:10 PM
Better conference?
NCAC or PAC
Wabash and Witt vs W&J and Thomas More
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on January 07, 2015, 02:53:13 PM
Quote from: JS342 on January 07, 2015, 02:14:10 PM
Better conference?
NCAC or PAC
Wabash and Witt vs W&J and Thomas More

That's a thin comparison. I'd take W&J out of the group this year, followed by Witt, Wabash and then TMC. Other years I'd be tempted to take the NCAC 1-2 at the top. But I'd take Waynesburg and Bethany over DePauw, Denison and OWU. I'd definitely take Westminister, CMU and CWRU most years over Hiram and Wooster. Oberlin Allegheny and Kenyon? Not better than Thiel. Geneva and Grove City are probably about a fair match up with the NCAC bottom feeders.

Overall the NCAC's big two are better in aggregate than the PAC big two, but it's close. As you go down the rest of the tiers, I'd primarily take the PAC teams. So top to bottom, I'd take the PAC, but certainly not a runaway...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on January 07, 2015, 03:02:30 PM
Quote from: jknezek on January 07, 2015, 02:53:13 PM
Quote from: JS342 on January 07, 2015, 02:14:10 PM
Better conference?
NCAC or PAC
Wabash and Witt vs W&J and Thomas More

That's a thin comparison. I'd take W&J out of the group this year, followed by Witt, Wabash and then TMC. Other years I'd be tempted to take the NCAC 1-2 at the top. But I'd take Waynesburg and Bethany over DePauw, Denison and OWU. I'd definitely take Westminister, CMU and CWRU most years over Hiram and Wooster. Oberlin Allegheny and Kenyon? Not better than Thiel. Geneva and Grove City are probably about a fair match up with the NCAC bottom feeders.

Overall the NCAC's big two are better in aggregate than the PAC big two, but it's close. As you go down the rest of the tiers, I'd primarily take the PAC teams. So top to bottom, I'd take the PAC, but certainly not a runaway...

Normally, I'd agree with you, but Hiram did beat Westminster last year.  That might have been a one-year blip due to an exceptional (for Hiram) player at QB who led the Terriers to their best season in a decade, so we'll see how long it lasts.  As you've noted, drawing a conclusion based on one or two games about which league is better is folly. 

I think the leagues are about even, top-to-bottom.  The PAC was not very good last year beneath the top three teams, but it was very evenly contested beneath the top three teams, which was kind of cool.  At one point I had a six-team daisy chain where everyone had beaten someone else who had beaten someone else from teams #4-10 in the league.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 23, 2015, 11:29:40 AM
Quote from: jknezek on January 05, 2015, 04:36:33 PM
GC has a fairly strong Christian focus. While they aren't the only college that does so, it is a pretty small minority of schools that require students to attend a certain number of chapel services per semester. I'm sure there is more to it, but that's the thing I remember most from an acquaintance who attended there a while ago.

Any truth to the rumor RJ Bowers started this tradition and the college adapted it as a whole??? ;)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on January 24, 2015, 07:08:06 PM
Not likely RJ was responsible. This has been the Grover Way for a long time. They don't accept government funding because of the strings attached (there was a legal fight over this which GCC won). The rules for student behavior are stringent and have also been in place for a long time. A significant percentage of their students are home schooled or have attended Christian schools.

So, even when I was in college a long time ago GCC was NOT a place for party animals. That kind of behavior would get you dismissed.

A great school, but not for everyone.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 25, 2015, 12:04:25 PM
Thomas More will host St John Fisher in week 1 - great to see the Saints continue to schedule aggressively.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on January 25, 2015, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 25, 2015, 12:04:25 PM
Thomas More will host St John Fisher in week 1 - great to see the Saints continue to schedule aggressively.

Agreed. It does leave open the perennial question about trying to schedule your way into a Pool C berth by making sure you're 9-1 if you don't win the keagueC but I much prefer to see good teams scheduling good non league games (Wabash HSC also comes to mind) and counting on just winning their way into the playoffs. Kudos to TMC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 26, 2015, 08:30:59 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 25, 2015, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 25, 2015, 12:04:25 PM
Thomas More will host St John Fisher in week 1 - great to see the Saints continue to schedule aggressively.

Agreed. It does leave open the perennial question about trying to schedule your way into a Pool C berth by making sure you're 9-1 if you don't win the keagueC but I much prefer to see good teams scheduling good non league games (Wabash HSC also comes to mind) and counting on just winning their way into the playoffs. Kudos to TMC.

Did you get my response to your message last week?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on January 26, 2015, 11:29:46 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 26, 2015, 08:30:59 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 25, 2015, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 25, 2015, 12:04:25 PM
Thomas More will host St John Fisher in week 1 - great to see the Saints continue to schedule aggressively.

Agreed. It does leave open the perennial question about trying to schedule your way into a Pool C berth by making sure you're 9-1 if you don't win the keagueC but I much prefer to see good teams scheduling good non league games (Wabash HSC also comes to mind) and counting on just winning their way into the playoffs. Kudos to TMC.

Did you get my response to your message last week?

Yes, I did.  Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few days up north.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 29, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
TMC's HC leaving for LaSalle HS

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/201501289duwuw
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on January 29, 2015, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 29, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
TMC's HC leaving for LaSalle HS

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/201501289duwuw

So...whoa.  I can imagine many reasons why small college coaches may make a move like this (family, just ready for new challenge, who knows) but this is still huge.  I have to assume that coaching FB at the HS is not a full time position?  SaintsFAN - any comments...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on January 29, 2015, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 29, 2015, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 29, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
TMC's HC leaving for LaSalle HS

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/201501289duwuw

So...whoa.  I can imagine many reasons why small college coaches may make a move like this (family, just ready for new challenge, who knows) but this is still huge.  I have to assume that coaching FB at the HS is not a full time position?  SaintsFAN - any comments...

At LaSalle? If HC isn't a full time position it is probably complimented by something like "detention supervisor" and is de facto full time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 03, 2015, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 29, 2015, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 29, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
TMC's HC leaving for LaSalle HS

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/201501289duwuw

So...whoa.  I can imagine many reasons why small college coaches may make a move like this (family, just ready for new challenge, who knows) but this is still huge.  I have to assume that coaching FB at the HS is not a full time position?  SaintsFAN - any comments...

Sorry guys -- just got back in the country last night and saw the news (was off the internet, also).  This is one of four GCL South Schools which hold a high prestige (St Xavier, Moeller, Elder and LaSalle) in SW Ohio.  Coach Hilvert grew up in that league (Elder) and his dad went to LaSalle.  LaSalle just steamrolled their way to a State Title in Division 2.  Its a dream of a Catholic Kid from Cincy to coach in this league - add to that, its his dad's school (with whom he is very close) and I think you have a no-brainer.  Now, lots of people have come and gone and done really crappy at LaSalle (including MSJ's current offensive coordinator, Tom Grippa) but Jimmy is a better coach than Grippa.  He'll do just fine there.  I played in the GCL North -- and you're right, the Coach Position is not a full time position, but he could be named, say, Dean of Students and not have to teach class either, like my Coach did. 

Now, lets spin this forward -- Thomas More begins a national search.  With the new school President being athletically-focused, the hiring of an Alumni Giving Position, A new Booster Club and the fact the school is located within minutes of the most fertile of recruiting grounds -- its a good "get" for an up and coming coordinator. 

Should be interesting to see who applies. 
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on February 04, 2015, 11:52:30 AM
I don't think it's that unusual for coaches to coach in HS after coaching in D3.  It happens all the time in lacrosse.  Most of the people I know who do it complain about the constant recruiting in D3.  HS jobs do not require all that much travel.  The guys I know who made the change also got HS coaching jobs that were associated with FT teaching jobs.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 04, 2015, 03:28:04 PM
First CWRU recruit reported:

http://www.gwinnettprepsports.com/news/2015/jan/22/greater-atlanta-christian-senior-phan-commits-to/?sports

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1572128/justin-phan

Per his tweets, Chicago, CMU, and Centre were in the mix.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dr. Acula on February 08, 2015, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on February 03, 2015, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on January 29, 2015, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 29, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
TMC's HC leaving for LaSalle HS

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/201501289duwuw

So...whoa.  I can imagine many reasons why small college coaches may make a move like this (family, just ready for new challenge, who knows) but this is still huge.  I have to assume that coaching FB at the HS is not a full time position?  SaintsFAN - any comments...

Sorry guys -- just got back in the country last night and saw the news (was off the internet, also).  This is one of four GCL South Schools which hold a high prestige (St Xavier, Moeller, Elder and LaSalle) in SW Ohio.  Coach Hilvert grew up in that league (Elder) and his dad went to LaSalle.  LaSalle just steamrolled their way to a State Title in Division 2.  Its a dream of a Catholic Kid from Cincy to coach in this league - add to that, its his dad's school (with whom he is very close) and I think you have a no-brainer.  Now, lots of people have come and gone and done really crappy at LaSalle (including MSJ's current offensive coordinator, Tom Grippa) but Jimmy is a better coach than Grippa.  He'll do just fine there.  I played in the GCL North -- and you're right, the Coach Position is not a full time position, but he could be named, say, Dean of Students and not have to teach class either, like my Coach did. 

Now, lets spin this forward -- Thomas More begins a national search.  With the new school President being athletically-focused, the hiring of an Alumni Giving Position, A new Booster Club and the fact the school is located within minutes of the most fertile of recruiting grounds -- its a good "get" for an up and coming coordinator. 

Should be interesting to see who applies.

I would think it'd be at worst equal pay and far less hours for him when you remove recruiting from the equation (Cincy area public HS fans can insert jokes here).  If he has a family that seems like a good move.  Plus LaSalle is loaded again next year so he could win a state title year 1.

I'm interested to see who TMC lands.  That seems like a pretty good job to me.  Heck, the right coach should be able to field a top 25 team every year only recruiting Cincy/Dayton.  Okay, perhaps an exaggeration, but there is a ton of HS talent to mine for a D3 school down there.  That's why it blows my mind that MSJ is not competing for the HCAC.  Sorry, I'm rambling.  Wrong thread.     
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 09, 2015, 07:59:37 AM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on February 08, 2015, 04:18:46 PM
  That's why it blows my mind that MSJ is not competing for the HCAC.  Sorry, I'm rambling.  Wrong thread.   

Because Hilvert and staff were getting all the D3 kids into Thomas More!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on February 09, 2015, 10:12:21 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on February 04, 2015, 11:52:30 AM
I don't think it's that unusual for coaches to coach in HS after coaching in D3.  It happens all the time in lacrosse.  Most of the people I know who do it complain about the constant recruiting in D3.  HS jobs do not require all that much travel.  The guys I know who made the change also got HS coaching jobs that were associated with FT teaching jobs.

Oh, I agree that some D3 coaches will go back to coaching HS afterwards.  It's just that, obviously, when you're coaching HS that at least requires some nominal other job (even if that job is detention supervisor).  But I do see your point that a college job comes with additional stresses of its own - my intent is not to make this a comparison of who has a harder life between HS and college coaches, since I admire both.

Serious, not-being-a-prick question: how many D3 schools have lacrosse-coaching positions that are FT?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on February 09, 2015, 10:16:08 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on February 03, 2015, 08:30:35 AM
Sorry guys -- just got back in the country last night and saw the news (was off the internet, also).  This is one of four GCL South Schools which hold a high prestige (St Xavier, Moeller, Elder and LaSalle) in SW Ohio.  Coach Hilvert grew up in that league (Elder) and his dad went to LaSalle.  LaSalle just steamrolled their way to a State Title in Division 2.  Its a dream of a Catholic Kid from Cincy to coach in this league - add to that, its his dad's school (with whom he is very close) and I think you have a no-brainer.  Now, lots of people have come and gone and done really crappy at LaSalle (including MSJ's current offensive coordinator, Tom Grippa) but Jimmy is a better coach than Grippa.  He'll do just fine there.  I played in the GCL North -- and you're right, the Coach Position is not a full time position, but he could be named, say, Dean of Students and not have to teach class either, like my Coach did. 

Totally understood.  I'm not familiar with the specific league, but can easily imagine the situation you're describing.  The alma mater / home league connection always remains strong.

Quote from: SaintsFAN on February 03, 2015, 08:30:35 AM
Now, lets spin this forward -- Thomas More begins a national search.  With the new school President being athletically-focused, the hiring of an Alumni Giving Position, A new Booster Club and the fact the school is located within minutes of the most fertile of recruiting grounds -- its a good "get" for an up and coming coordinator. 

...or will Dean Paul put his name in the lot?  With it being public knowledge that he applied at UWW (which no one can/should possibly blame him, or any D3 coach besides possibly Vince Kehres, for doing) is there going to be any lingering discomfort at ONU for him?

I agree that it looks like a pretty attractive position for an up-and-comer, too.  Just throwing this fun little nugget into the mix.  Seems like a long shot to me.  Are any of Hilvert's assistants realistic HC candidates?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 09, 2015, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on February 09, 2015, 10:12:21 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on February 04, 2015, 11:52:30 AM
I don't think it's that unusual for coaches to coach in HS after coaching in D3.  It happens all the time in lacrosse.  Most of the people I know who do it complain about the constant recruiting in D3.  HS jobs do not require all that much travel.  The guys I know who made the change also got HS coaching jobs that were associated with FT teaching jobs.

Serious, not-being-a-prick question: how many D3 schools have lacrosse-coaching positions that are FT?

Very few. But I bet most football coaches in D3 also have ancillary jobs. At W&L they used to teach a PE class or two in winter/spring term (W&L does trimesters). Probably still do, but I won't guarantee it as I'm now coming up on 15 years out. I think most of the head coaches are in the same boat. We had to take 6 semesters of PE before graduation, so I had golf with the swim team coach, squash with the head football coach, volleyball with the lacrosse coach, tennis with someone I can't remember, and I can't remember the other two but they were all pretty much head or assistant coaches.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on February 09, 2015, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: jknezek on February 09, 2015, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on February 09, 2015, 10:12:21 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on February 04, 2015, 11:52:30 AM
I don't think it's that unusual for coaches to coach in HS after coaching in D3.  It happens all the time in lacrosse.  Most of the people I know who do it complain about the constant recruiting in D3.  HS jobs do not require all that much travel.  The guys I know who made the change also got HS coaching jobs that were associated with FT teaching jobs.

Serious, not-being-a-prick question: how many D3 schools have lacrosse-coaching positions that are FT?

Very few. But I bet most football coaches in D3 also have ancillary jobs. At W&L they used to teach a PE class or two in winter/spring term (W&L does trimesters). Probably still do, but I won't guarantee it as I'm now coming up on 15 years out. I think most of the head coaches are in the same boat. We had to take 6 semesters of PE before graduation, so I had golf with the swim team coach, squash with the head football coach, volleyball with the lacrosse coach, tennis with someone I can't remember, and I can't remember the other two but they were all pretty much head or assistant coaches.

Oh, I agree re: ancially jobs, CMU's coaches also teach an assortment of PE classes (and the offensive coordinator while I was there was also the golf coach) and had some facilities-related responsibilities.

But I imagine that the typical collegiate HC's primary job is still coaching and recruiting for football with an ancillary job on the side.

Whereas, I suspect that your typical HS coach is more of a "teacher that coaches the football team" - even if his teaching job is "weight room supervisor" or "detention monitor" or something, he still spends more time doing his ''other" job than coaching football.  Being the football coach is the ancillary job, in this case, with teaching (or whatever-ing) being the primary job.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 09, 2015, 01:04:53 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on February 09, 2015, 10:16:08 AM
...or will Dean Paul put his name in the lot?  With it being public knowledge that he applied at UWW (which no one can/should possibly blame him, or any D3 coach besides possibly Vince Kehres, for doing) is there going to be any lingering discomfort at ONU for him?

I agree that it looks like a pretty attractive position for an up-and-comer, too.  Just throwing this fun little nugget into the mix.  Seems like a long shot to me.  Are any of Hilvert's assistants realistic HC candidates?

I think Coach Paul is staying put at ONU -- I don't think we'll see him at TMC again, unfortunately. 

There are a couple assistants who are Head Coaching Material -- I think there has been alot of outside interest, however.  I'm not sure of the direction they'll head.  They need to make sure who they hire embraces there will be certain challenges at the school and someone who embraces the the D3 philosophy.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on February 09, 2015, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on February 09, 2015, 10:12:21 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on February 04, 2015, 11:52:30 AM
I don't think it's that unusual for coaches to coach in HS after coaching in D3.  It happens all the time in lacrosse.  Most of the people I know who do it complain about the constant recruiting in D3.  HS jobs do not require all that much travel.  The guys I know who made the change also got HS coaching jobs that were associated with FT teaching jobs.

Oh, I agree that some D3 coaches will go back to coaching HS afterwards.  It's just that, obviously, when you're coaching HS that at least requires some nominal other job (even if that job is detention supervisor).  But I do see your point that a college job comes with additional stresses of its own - my intent is not to make this a comparison of who has a harder life between HS and college coaches, since I admire both.

Serious, not-being-a-prick question: how many D3 schools have lacrosse-coaching positions that are FT?

I would guess most of the D3 lacrosse head coaching positions are FT (like 99%).  A good number of the assistant spots are also FT.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on February 09, 2015, 05:12:42 PM
Quote from: jknezek on February 09, 2015, 10:18:11 AM
Very few. But I bet most football coaches in D3 also have ancillary jobs. At W&L they used to teach a PE class or two in winter/spring term (W&L does trimesters). Probably still do, but I won't guarantee it as I'm now coming up on 15 years out. I think most of the head coaches are in the same boat. We had to take 6 semesters of PE before graduation, so I had golf with the swim team coach, squash with the head football coach, volleyball with the lacrosse coach, tennis with someone I can't remember, and I can't remember the other two but they were all pretty much head or assistant coaches.

Did you have Chad Moore as a teacher/coach?

In the lax world it is VERY common for coaches to have a FT lax job and also take on other jobs.  There is no end to the amount of money lacrosse parents are willing to spend. :-X

Our local professional lax team (FL Launch) had 3 of the local HS coaches on its roster and 1 HS head coach on its coaching staff.

Lots of college coaches have their own camps.  Bill Pilat is the HC at Roanoake and he has a well known goalie camp.  Roanoke is known as Goalie U.  Lots of other lacrosse coaches have their own camps or work at camps.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 16, 2015, 01:40:55 PM
SpartanMom,

I think Jknezek went to W&L (Washington & Lee). Chad Moore was the LAX coach at W&J (Washington & Jefferson) for 9 years.

Regards,

Jeff
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on February 16, 2015, 10:45:53 PM
Oops sorry about that.  Chad Moore is now a head coach at American Heritage School here in Fort Lauderdale.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 17, 2015, 03:35:33 PM
Thomas More has a new coach:

http://www.tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/20150217txiqgi
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 18, 2015, 10:49:15 AM
What strikes me is he is mid-60s. Now he graduated the year after me, so I'm not going to say he's old.   ;)

He's the same age as Larry Kehres.  I can't imagine he'd stay longer than four years or so. 

Is he bringing an heir apparent with him or is there someone already at TMC who wasn't considered quite ready?

Fellow CWRU grad (2008) Tom Zagorski is OC at JCU and was an assistant under Scafe for five years there.  But he's in Arth's shadow, so kind of a dead end for him there.  And I doubt Debeljak is going anywhere anytime soon, unless maybe if McDaniels gets another HC job, so no opportunity for him at his alma mater.

Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 18, 2015, 02:44:11 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 18, 2015, 10:49:15 AM
What strikes me is he is mid-60s. Now he graduated the year after me, so I'm not going to say he's old.   ;)

He's the same age as Larry Kehres.  I can't imagine he'd stay longer than four years or so. 

Is he bringing an heir apparent with him or is there someone already at TMC who wasn't considered quite ready?

Fellow CWRU grad (2008) Tom Zagorski is OC at JCU and was an assistant under Scafe for five years there.  But he's in Arth's shadow, so kind of a dead end for him there.  And I doubt Debeljak is going anywhere anytime soon, unless maybe if McDaniels gets another HC job, so no opportunity for him at his alma mater.

They have two guys (if they stick around) who are going to be legitimate candidates to be Head Coaches within the next 4 years.  Both were actually interviewed for this job two weeks ago:  OC Trevor Stellman and DC Adam Norwell
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 19, 2015, 10:32:37 AM
At least he won't have to play Mount Union during the regular season every year. I expect he will find the PAC less grueling than the OAC.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 06, 2015, 04:57:03 PM
Per their tweets two more commits for CWRU:

Mitchell Peer  6'3 180 QB/PK   L'Anse Creuse North High School  Macomb MI

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1271689/mitchell-peer


Steve Bachie  6'3 260 OT/C  Berea-Midpark   2nd Team DI Northeast Lakes District  Becoming a Spartan despite offers from St Francis PA FCS, Dayton FCS-NS, West Va Wesleyan DII, as well as Carnegie Mellon, which was where he wanted to go per an interview last September. 

http://highschoolsports.cleveland.com/news/article/5199584458464780047/berea-midpark-football-player-steve-bachie-answers-8-questions-varsity-time

http://www.scoutingohio.com/index.php?option=com_community&view=profile&Itemid=166&userid=7361
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 13, 2015, 10:21:14 AM
Quarterback and Placekicker???

Well, now THAT'S definitely a combination that you don't see very often!!!
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 13, 2015, 10:28:21 AM
Not so uncommon in hs.
Then there was George Blanda.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on March 13, 2015, 10:37:57 AM
My sophomore year our NJ State Championship team QB was also the placekicker. He got a scholarship offer to be a placekicker at Nebraska and a host of mid-major schools but opted to go to Delaware to try and be a QB. Ended up as a pretty good receiver/kick returner with a few NFL practice squad spells and a short couple year career in NFL Europe. Since H.S. teams so often put the best athlete at QB we all know what happens when they hit higher levels...
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bman on March 15, 2015, 07:20:39 PM
Quote from: jknezek on March 13, 2015, 10:37:57 AM
My sophomore year our NJ State Championship team QB was also the placekicker. He got a scholarship offer to be a placekicker at Nebraska and a host of mid-major schools but opted to go to Delaware to try and be a QB. Ended up as a pretty good receiver/kick returner with a few NFL practice squad spells and a short couple year career in NFL Europe. Since H.S. teams so often put the best athlete at QB we all know what happens when they hit higher levels...
North or South Jersey?
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on March 15, 2015, 08:26:39 PM
At the time it was central Jersey group 3. 1994 Ocean Township. We also were voted the Star Ledger top team in the state but that was fluky. No way we would have beaten the big boys, but we went undefeated and none of them did.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on April 07, 2015, 08:22:50 PM
Condolences to long-time Thiel play-by-play announcer Hugh Ringer on the passing of his mother.
Roberta Ringer was 100 and a regular at many Mercer County, PA high school & college events.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Sir Battlescars on April 16, 2015, 02:06:49 PM
Just saw that the Cincinnati Bengals invited Domonique Hayden from Thomas More to attend what they call a "local" Pre-draft tryout. What they mean by local is a player who played at a college and/or high school in or around Cincinnati.

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-to-host-25-local-players-to-annual-pre-draft-workouts/c6ed72d9-8120-4852-9969-1191c078d62b (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-to-host-25-local-players-to-annual-pre-draft-workouts/c6ed72d9-8120-4852-9969-1191c078d62b)
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2015, 03:50:46 PM
Quote from: Sir Battlescars on April 16, 2015, 02:06:49 PM
Just saw that the Cincinnati Bengals invited Domonique Hayden from Thomas More to attend what they call a "local" Pre-draft tryout. What they mean by local is a player who played at a college and/or high school in or around Cincinnati.

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-to-host-25-local-players-to-annual-pre-draft-workouts/c6ed72d9-8120-4852-9969-1191c078d62b (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-to-host-25-local-players-to-annual-pre-draft-workouts/c6ed72d9-8120-4852-9969-1191c078d62b)

Several NFL teams do something similar, but I rarely see any of them sticking on the roster.  I can't help wondering if the motive isn't really more PR than legitimate try-outs.

That said, good luck to Mr. Hayden - I always love it when a D3 player makes it to the big time.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on April 16, 2015, 04:08:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2015, 03:50:46 PM
Quote from: Sir Battlescars on April 16, 2015, 02:06:49 PM
Just saw that the Cincinnati Bengals invited Domonique Hayden from Thomas More to attend what they call a "local" Pre-draft tryout. What they mean by local is a player who played at a college and/or high school in or around Cincinnati.

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-to-host-25-local-players-to-annual-pre-draft-workouts/c6ed72d9-8120-4852-9969-1191c078d62b (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-to-host-25-local-players-to-annual-pre-draft-workouts/c6ed72d9-8120-4852-9969-1191c078d62b)

Several NFL teams do something similar, but I rarely see any of them sticking on the roster.  I can't help wondering if the motive isn't really more PR than legitimate try-outs.

That said, good luck to Mr. Hayden - I always love it when a D3 player makes it to the big time.

I think they are legitimate, it's just so hard to make an NFL roster. Counting practice squads it is less than 65 players per team. 32 teams, is 2080 players, of which more than 85% are not going to turn over outside of players already in the league or in the league in the last year or so (teams average around 8 rookies per year). Therefore that leaves a total of around 312 open positions for new applicants in any year. Given the draft takes 7 rounds you are looking at 256 draftees (counting supplemental picks) which will be given a preferential eye over an unsigned college free agent, you are down to about 56 openings. There are approximately 250 D1 FBS/FCS schools that probably average 20 seniors a piece. So every year 5000 or so players just from that grouping hit the market with most having at least a dream of taking one of those drafted or undrafted spots. While it is certainly common for late draft picks to get beat out by undrafted free agents (teams average just over 2 undrafted free agents per year), it doesn't really change the math too much. It's more common for late draft picks just not to make the team, the same as undrafted free agents.

By the time you get down to one of these open tryouts, you better be some kind of a freak athlete or have a patron saint, because the uphill climb is just unbelievable.

Average rookies per team and undrafted free agents per team came from this rather dated article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/09/02/patriots-younger-with-most-rookies-any-nfl-team/OyOJLUqCVKP5hVTddXMzBM/story.html
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2015, 05:48:16 PM
jk, I'm certain they are legitimate (and once in a very blue moon, a team really does unearth an unnoticed gem), but the odds are SO long that I'd bet PR considerations are the primary reason for 'local' Pro days.
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on April 17, 2015, 09:53:37 AM
The RB class for this draft is very, very deep.  I wish it wasn't for Hayden's sake..
Title: Re: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on April 17, 2015, 09:55:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2015, 05:48:16 PM
jk, I'm certain they are legitimate (and once in a very blue moon, a team really does unearth an unnoticed gem), but the odds are SO long that I'd bet PR considerations are the primary reason for 'local' Pro days.

I just can't imagine they get much PR from it. Other than people invited and a few notices like this one, does the general public even know it takes place? You never see it, or even "regional combines" mentioned in local newspapers...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 04, 2015, 11:50:43 AM
CWRU's response to disappointing last season, week of full contact practice and game in Italy.

http://studyabroad.case.edu/_customtags/ct_FileRetrieve.cfm?File_ID=0E0077754F74007675057072051F04010D0F1B7B7608776B7403060771060707760E760100730B05

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 06, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
Per a tweet from coach Slesh CWRU is expecting 35 new Spartans in August.

I have identified about 15, but an announcement of names may be sometime off, as CWRU is in the process of hiring an SID.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on May 08, 2015, 09:39:43 AM
Not sure about the number of recruits coming to Crestview Hills this August, but I did hear about an OL transfer from Urbana University coming to play for Thomas More.

Zach Baller, a 6'6'' 295 lb OT will report in August and play for the Saints.  He will have 4 years to compete for Thomas More.

http://sports.urbana.edu/men/football/roster/zachballer.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 08, 2015, 10:10:10 AM
Coach D announces his latest recruiting class.

A lot of linemen on both sides.

Sadly, only one QB.

36 new players in all.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/2015050516xa1m (http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/2015050516xa1m)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 10, 2015, 03:49:38 PM
it appears that there will be a webcast of Saturday's game in Italy:

http://americanfootballworldwide.com/featured/cwru-spartans-set-to-depart-for-italy-game-vs-milano-rhinos-to-be-webcast/

I believe kick-off is 1:30 EDT.  Only 24 players on the trip?

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on May 12, 2015, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on May 10, 2015, 03:49:38 PM
it appears that there will be a webcast of Saturday's game in Italy:

http://americanfootballworldwide.com/featured/cwru-spartans-set-to-depart-for-italy-game-vs-milano-rhinos-to-be-webcast/

I believe kick-off is 1:30 EDT.  Only 24 players on the trip?

The trip was not paid for by the university. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 13, 2015, 01:35:06 PM
That was the impression I had.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 13, 2015, 06:58:42 PM
If the university isn't paying for it, then who is?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on May 17, 2015, 10:56:13 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on May 13, 2015, 06:58:42 PM
If the university isn't paying for it, then who is?

The kids were responsible for paying.  I assume most of them had substantial help from their families.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on May 18, 2015, 09:02:01 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on May 17, 2015, 10:56:13 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on May 13, 2015, 06:58:42 PM
If the university isn't paying for it, then who is?

The kids were responsible for paying.  I assume most of them had substantial help from their families.

One would think, unless you got a Nino Brown type on the team and truly believes in being ALL his brothers' keeper.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on May 26, 2015, 12:35:50 PM
CMU recruiting class posted today.

33 players from 15 states.  On the smaller side (quality over quantity, of course, but still...it's nice to bring in large classes of fresh bodies every year).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 12, 2015, 03:01:05 PM
UAA football will cease to exist after 2017.  Wash is joining CCIW and will most likely have only one OOC game which will be with Chicago.

Chicago will depart SAA as well after 2016, but no conference affiliation has been announced.  Seven-team NACC could be an option.

I hope it doesn't, but PAC could go all NESCAC and play 10 conference games.  But it could make scheduling easier by adding a ninth PAC game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 15, 2015, 09:26:11 AM
Looking ahead to August, Spartans start practice Aug 13 and scrimmage BW on Aug 29.

Spartan coaches on the  recruiting trail; Coach David at Texas Select -- Coach Miller at Cornell.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 18, 2015, 01:27:19 PM
ADL,

If Chicago and Wash U. are indeed coming off the schedule, then I'd prefer to see us have two more non-conference "intersectional" opponents annually.  In Division I-FBS, teams generally play seven or eight conference games, and then schedule non-conference opponents to round out the schedule.  I prefer that, and prefer that Division III conferences do the same.

A schedule featuring all conference opponents does not appeal to me at all.

I'd like to see us renew our rivalries with Wooster and Oberlin.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 24, 2015, 01:50:15 PM
Spartan coaches continuing recruiting; Coach David @ Cornell #2, Coach Slesh @ Dartmouth, Coach Lolli @ Penn, and Coach Macalla @ Yale.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 24, 2015, 03:43:41 PM
What exactly are they doing at those schools?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 25, 2015, 12:52:52 PM
Prospect camps
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 28, 2015, 08:02:13 AM
From th W&J athletics page:

http://gopresidents.com

Nice recognition for the team and the PAC.

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 20, 2015, 04:10:14 PM
Good news for CWRU, G Seamus McDonald  (6'3 270) appears to be returning after vanishing following last season's opener.  He played in eight games his freshman year and started all nine games in 2013 and game one last year.

He was All-Ohio SM as a hs senior.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 27, 2015, 05:16:48 PM
PAC Media Day  Aug 5 in Latrobe.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2015/7/23/FB_0723154430.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 29, 2015, 04:08:20 PM
CWRU preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20150729fzbdf5

Big loss -- Everett Dishong -- who played in only five games last season due to injury (and only parts of two of those), but still was fifth on the team in tackles, will miss this whole season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on July 31, 2015, 08:29:22 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 29, 2015, 04:08:20 PM
CWRU preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20150729fzbdf5

Big loss -- Everett Dishong -- who played in only five games last season due to injury (and only parts of two of those), but still was fifth on the team in tackles, will miss this whole season.

My last season as a football parent.   :'(
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 01, 2015, 08:42:57 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on July 31, 2015, 08:29:22 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 29, 2015, 04:08:20 PM
CWRU preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20150729fzbdf5

Big loss -- Everett Dishong -- who played in only five games last season due to injury (and only parts of two of those), but still was fifth on the team in tackles, will miss this whole season.


My last season as a football parent.   :'(

Your son has contributed much to the team.

From previous posts I surmise that your younger son plays lacrosse.


Updated CWRU roster with newcomers:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/roster

I hadn't notice the absence of Bianco previously, but there is lots of depth at RB.  From what I've heard, perhaps the best of the four sophomore RBs didn't have a carry with the varsity last season due to injury.

A few reported recruits aren't listed, but from one of their twitter accounts it appears at least one is planning to show up.  Probably just hasn't returned his SID form.

QB Tyler Schovanek, a graduate student transfer from Carroll (WI), where he made a few starts the last two season, adds depth at QB.

The other is really interesting, David Khanin was a classmate of last season's leading rusher Anthony Canganelli, at Mayfield High.  He was a three-year starter and two-time All District OT.  The roster lists him at 6'0 270, but his hs roster in 2013 listed him at 6'3 300.  I couldn't find any information about his whereabouts last year.

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/2101137/highlights/119106392/v2


Also interesting Receivers Coach -- John Pont -- that name should resonate with the boomers out there.

This guy? 

http://gozips.com/sports/fball/2012-13/coaches/pont_john

Per his FB page he left Akron in January.  Grandson of legendary coach and son-in-law of Terry Bowden.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 05, 2015, 05:39:36 PM
Preseason Poll



1. Washington & Jefferson College (368 total points, 28 first-place votes)
2. Thomas More College (341 pts., 6 first-place votes)
3. Bethany College (265 pts.)
4. Waynesburg University (225 pts.)
5. Saint Vincent College (212 pts.)
6. Westminster College (209 pts.)
7. Case Western Reserve University (169 pts.)
8. Carnegie Mellon University (148 pts.)
9. Geneva College (128 pts.)
10. Thiel (123 pts.)
11. Grove City College (56 pts.)

CWRU hosts St. Vincent on Sept. 19
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 05, 2015, 07:16:56 PM
Mike's perspective on W&J's team and it's prospects this season. Alex Rowse, the new back up QB, is a real W&J legacy. Two of his great uncles were at W&J with me in the 60's, including one  (Bill) who was my Lambda Chi Alpha brother and best man at our wedding, and I at his. Bill and the Rowses are from Beaver, PA and he always said Beaver Stadium was named after Beaver, PA. In fact, it was named after this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Beaver#Early_life_and_education

A graduate of.... W&J.

Jeff in Tennessee


Looks like they do what they have for the last 30 years - reload.

http://gopresidents.com/news/2015/8/4/FB_0804153442.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on August 05, 2015, 09:14:01 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 05, 2015, 05:39:36 PM
1. Washington & Jefferson College (368 total points, 28 first-place votes)
2. Thomas More College (341 pts., 6 first-place votes)
3. Bethany College (265 pts.)
4. Waynesburg University (225 pts.)
5. Saint Vincent College (212 pts.)
6. Westminster College (209 pts.)
7. Case Western Reserve University (169 pts.)
8. Carnegie Mellon University (148 pts.)
9. Geneva College (128 pts.)
10. Thiel (123 pts.)
11. Grove City College (56 pts.)

Hard to argue with much here, although it looks suspiciously like last year's season-end standings (but that's just kind of how it goes, right?)

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 06, 2015, 10:27:40 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on August 05, 2015, 09:14:01 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 05, 2015, 05:39:36 PM
1. Washington & Jefferson College (368 total points, 28 first-place votes)
2. Thomas More College (341 pts., 6 first-place votes)
3. Bethany College (265 pts.)
4. Waynesburg University (225 pts.)
5. Saint Vincent College (212 pts.)
6. Westminster College (209 pts.)
7. Case Western Reserve University (169 pts.)
8. Carnegie Mellon University (148 pts.)
9. Geneva College (128 pts.)
10. Thiel (123 pts.)
11. Grove City College (56 pts.)

Hard to argue with much here, although it looks suspiciously like last year's season-end standings (but that's just kind of how it goes, right?)

The one difference this year being W&J has to play at Thomas More.  Thomas More played night games at W&J in 2013 and 2014.  Thomas More has ALOT coming back and a very good replacement for Hayden at RB in CT Tarrant - should be a great battle on October 3rd. 

Thomas More's roster has been published - looks like they've started to recruit Florida now.  Good to see them start getting guys down there.  I'm anxious to see the Duncan kid from Moeller, 6'5" WR.  There's alot of size in this freshman class.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2015-16/roster

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on August 09, 2015, 10:46:41 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 01, 2015, 08:42:57 PM
Your son has contributed much to the team.

From previous posts I surmise that your younger son plays lacrosse.

Thank you for your kind words.  My son has been really happy at CWRU and I am glad he found a university and team where he has been happy.  I think that football has really helped him be successful in college. 

All three of my sons played lacrosse in high school  but my youngest is looking for a place to play in college.  He is a goalie and an exceptional student so he is looking for a good academic school as well as a good lacrosse experience.  CWRU would be a good fit for him as far as school goes but it does not have NCAA lacrosse (there are 10 D3 programs in OH).

He played football from the time he was 5 until last season.  He decided not to play varsity football this season so his football career is over.  That makes this season my last as a football parent. I will be sad when it is over.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: PAC_Football_Fan1 on August 14, 2015, 12:11:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on August 06, 2015, 10:27:40 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on August 05, 2015, 09:14:01 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 05, 2015, 05:39:36 PM
1. Washington & Jefferson College (368 total points, 28 first-place votes)
2. Thomas More College (341 pts., 6 first-place votes)
3. Bethany College (265 pts.)
4. Waynesburg University (225 pts.)
5. Saint Vincent College (212 pts.)
6. Westminster College (209 pts.)
7. Case Western Reserve University (169 pts.)
8. Carnegie Mellon University (148 pts.)
9. Geneva College (128 pts.)
10. Thiel (123 pts.)
11. Grove City College (56 pts.)

Hard to argue with much here, although it looks suspiciously like last year's season-end standings (but that's just kind of how it goes, right?)

The one difference this year being W&J has to play at Thomas More.  Thomas More played night games at W&J in 2013 and 2014.  Thomas More has ALOT coming back and a very good replacement for Hayden at RB in CT Tarrant - should be a great battle on October 3rd. 

Thomas More's roster has been published - looks like they've started to recruit Florida now.  Good to see them start getting guys down there.  I'm anxious to see the Duncan kid from Moeller, 6'5" WR.  There's alot of size in this freshman class.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2015-16/roster

Hey SaintsFan is this the same kid? He just goes by CT now instead of Christopher.  IMO an act like this does not deserve a second chance, especially when you sucker punch a kid for no reason and put him in the hospital and basically ruin his life.  I am all for second chances when they are deserved but this seems like a malicious act. I think OU got it right by kicking him off the team.

http://woub.org/2014/11/14/former-bobcat-violates-terms-judicial-release/

http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/former-ou-footballer-to-do-prison-time-for-random-assault/article_6e2485ce-d549-5d5a-ab3a-69a89ca01d66.html

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2015-16/bios/tarrant_ct_gbsj
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 14, 2015, 12:20:49 AM
Quote from: PAC_Football_Fan1 on August 14, 2015, 12:11:29 AM
Hey SaintsFan is this the same kid? He just goes by CT now instead of Christopher.  IMO an act like this does not deserve a second chance, especially when you sucker punch a kid for no reason and put him in the hospital and basically ruin his life.  I am all for second chances when they are deserved but this seems like a malicious act. I think OU got it right by kicking him off the team.

http://woub.org/2014/11/14/former-bobcat-violates-terms-judicial-release/

http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/former-ou-footballer-to-do-prison-time-for-random-assault/article_6e2485ce-d549-5d5a-ab3a-69a89ca01d66.html

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2015-16/bios/tarrant_ct_gbsj

Ahh -- now I see why you had to try to register twice today, because what you were posting was intentionally inflammatory and would look bad if it came from the campus of a PAC institution ...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 14, 2015, 09:35:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 14, 2015, 12:20:49 AM
Ahh -- now I see why you had to try to register twice today, because what you were posting was intentionally inflammatory and would look bad if it came from the campus of a PAC institution ...

Pat - I bet I can guess which school this "fan" came from. 


First I've heard about this for CT Tarrant.  Lots of hyperbole in your post though -- so you propose WHAT specifically for his punishment?  Looks like the courts took care of it.  I'm not going to touch the "basically ruined his life" part, as I'm sure you can read one of the articles you left here about Clark's recovery. 

Ohio U was right to kick him off at the time as it wasn't resolved... and Thomas More also got it right in giving the kid a second chance.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 14, 2015, 11:38:37 AM
PAC preview, while we wait for Kickoff.  Buy it BTW.

http://www.pacstream.net/blog/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on August 17, 2015, 05:28:02 PM
Sad news:  http://www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/ATV-accident-in-Campbell-County-186252.shtml
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 17, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on August 17, 2015, 05:28:02 PM
Sad news:  http://www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/ATV-accident-in-Campbell-County-186252.shtml

here's a better article:  http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/08/17/man-21-died--campbell-county-atv-crash/31837741/

very sad day, indeed.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on August 17, 2015, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on August 17, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on August 17, 2015, 05:28:02 PM
Sad news:  http://www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/ATV-accident-in-Campbell-County-186252.shtml

here's a better article:  http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/08/17/man-21-died--campbell-county-atv-crash/31837741/

very sad day, indeed.

Condolences.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GillCJ1 on August 17, 2015, 10:38:20 PM
I saw this on Twitter.  Very sad.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMpbYsnWsAAqpx4.jpg:large)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 24, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
Further sad news: one of the firefighters killed in Washington was a former CWRU player.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20150824k5rjrz
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on August 24, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
I have had enough of young people dying.  First the young man from Thomas More.  Next a couple of local teens died in a boating accident.  Now this young firefighter.   :'(No more please.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on August 27, 2015, 05:24:00 PM
On a more cheerful note, then, it really can't be overstated how fine Kickoff 2015 is, and how everyone on these boards should pony up the 11 bucks to support this site and get some really great information.  The thing has better coverage than most D1 preseason magazines you'll buy at Barnes & Noble.  Go for it, folks.

Although I'm not a fan of where they rank CMU and Case... :(
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on August 27, 2015, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on August 27, 2015, 05:24:00 PM
On a more cheerful note, then, it really can't be overstated how fine Kickoff 2015 is, and how everyone on these boards should pony up the 11 bucks to support this site and get some really great information.  The thing has better coverage than most D1 preseason magazines you'll buy at Barnes & Noble.  Go for it, folks.

Although I'm not a fan of where they rank CMU and Case... :(

I like it because there's a picture of my son on the Case page.  Shallow, I know but every parent loves when their child gets positive press.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 27, 2015, 11:58:15 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on August 27, 2015, 05:24:00 PM
On a more cheerful note, then, it really can't be overstated how fine Kickoff 2015 is, and how everyone on these boards should pony up the 11 bucks to support this site and get some really great information.  The thing has better coverage than most D1 preseason magazines you'll buy at Barnes & Noble.  Go for it, folks.

Although I'm not a fan of where they rank CMU and Case... :(


Seconded

I think both will fare better than predicted. FWIW Massey forecasts 5-5 for Spartans, but 1-9 for  Tartans.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 28, 2015, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on August 27, 2015, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on August 27, 2015, 05:24:00 PM
On a more cheerful note, then, it really can't be overstated how fine Kickoff 2015 is, and how everyone on these boards should pony up the 11 bucks to support this site and get some really great information.  The thing has better coverage than most D1 preseason magazines you'll buy at Barnes & Noble.  Go for it, folks.

Although I'm not a fan of where they rank CMU and Case... :(

I like it because there's a picture of my son on the Case page.  Shallow, I know but every parent loves when their child gets positive press.

He's on the St Vincent page, also.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on August 29, 2015, 08:52:18 AM
Yeah but we don't want to talk about that picture ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 29, 2015, 09:51:09 PM
CWRU hosted BW for scrimmage today.  Spartans "won" 17-0, aided by a BW muffed punt and a botched punt snap.

Cuda had a successful debut, completing mostly short to medium passes.  Grad student transfer (Carroll U) Tyler Schovanec appears to be the back-up.

Only one injury was apparent and it wasn't a starter and appeared to just be a sprain.  Several key players on both sides of the ball DNP.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dr. Acula on August 30, 2015, 02:27:28 PM
17-0?  Sounds like that BW offense is already in mid-season form.   ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 30, 2015, 10:15:38 PM
I just read the Kickoff preview of CWRU.  Good factual analysis, but their predicted record was discouraging.

I'm hoping that we can get up to .500 or better. 

Even if we don't beat Chicago in Week One, if we play well, then I'll feel better about our chances this year.

It's good to hear that we "won" the scrimmage, but as the NFL pre-season often indicates, little can be made of such things.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 30, 2015, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on August 30, 2015, 10:15:38 PM
I just read the Kickoff preview of CWRU.  Good factual analysis, but their predicted record was discouraging.

I'm hoping that we can get up to .500 or better. 

Even if we don't beat Chicago in Week One, if we play well, then I'll feel better about our chances this year.

It's good to hear that we "won" the scrimmage, but as the NFL pre-season often indicates, little can be made of such things.

As the most extreme example I'm aware of, the year the Lions went 0-16, they were 4-0 preseason! :o
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 31, 2015, 10:53:08 AM
The regulars played a half, then backups a couple of series, and finally a minute and a half hurry-up series for each.  In those, each team ran about forty plays.  Then the squads split up and the 2s and 3s went at each other on opposite ends of the field, a two ring football circus.

In fairness to BW, with the QBs "hands off" their QB's runs were hampered since the whistle blew anytime a defender got anywhere near him.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: sjfcards on August 31, 2015, 11:37:50 PM
Excited to see the game this weekend between Fisher and Thomas More. Does anyone on this page know if Thomas More will have video of the game available?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 03, 2015, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on August 31, 2015, 11:37:50 PM
Excited to see the game this weekend between Fisher and Thomas More. Does anyone on this page know if Thomas More will have video of the game available?

pretty sure its audio only. 

ETA:  I stand corrected.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2015-16/boxscores/20150905_cyy5.xml

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 05, 2015, 02:51:17 PM
Thomas More served notice to the PAC today.  Great showing. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 05, 2015, 04:27:43 PM
I'd say they served notice to the region, if not the nation.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 06, 2015, 12:49:09 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 05, 2015, 04:27:43 PM
I'd say they served notice to the region, if not the nation.

They legitimately have the size and athleticism on the lines to make a postseason run.  It's WAY early, but they made SJF look really, really bad.  Like Mount St Joe bad. 

That said, W&J is the one who got the Pool A the last two years - hope this TMC team remembers that fact.  51-28 last year is a lot of ground to make up.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 08, 2015, 12:40:23 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 06, 2015, 12:49:09 AM
That said, W&J is the one who got the Pool A the last two years - hope this TMC team remembers that fact.  51-28 last year is a lot of ground to make up.

x2

With all due respect to TMC - and I have a lot after that performance, voting them quite high in my fan poll ballot - the Saints have to beat W & J to convince me they're all muscle this year.  But that sure was a heck of a start to the Regis Scafe era at TMC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 08, 2015, 01:14:22 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 08, 2015, 12:40:23 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 06, 2015, 12:49:09 AM
That said, W&J is the one who got the Pool A the last two years - hope this TMC team remembers that fact.  51-28 last year is a lot of ground to make up.

x2

With all due respect to TMC - and I have a lot after that performance, voting them quite high in my fan poll ballot - the Saints have to beat W & J to convince me they're all muscle this year.  But that sure was a heck of a start to the Regis Scafe era at TMC.

One thing different from the last TWO years is they will be playing the game in Kentucky and not some night game in PA.  Well, thats two things.  Coach Hilvert really hated playing the night games because of how it affected the kids (and their studies) and made it known when he asked W&J to make them day games. 

The second part is two straight away games at W&J instead of the usual home/road split in even/odd years. 

We'll see but it looks like TMC has a QB ready to play against these top teams.  The performance in the years previous to this one left something to be desired.  I didn't realize SJF has never given up as many yards through the air as they did on Saturday. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 12, 2015, 04:39:45 PM
Thomas More sets the school record for points scored in their 84-7 win over Hanover.  Starting QB Jensen Gebhardt sat today out with a minor injury.  There were a couple pick 6's late in the 2nd Quarter but this is still impressive when you factor in a QB making his first career start. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AO on September 13, 2015, 09:00:01 PM
 http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673 (http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673) can anybody who was at the game identify the Westminster player?  Apparently there are multiple #10s, or somebody switched with Kerr.  Very surprised to find there were no ejections listed in the play by play.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 13, 2015, 10:34:44 PM
Adam Turer's article on Thomas More's motivation behind their start:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/othercolleges/2015/09/13/thomas-football-thriving-despite-tragedy/72226628/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 13, 2015, 10:39:10 PM
Quote from: AO on September 13, 2015, 09:00:01 PM
http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673 (http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673) can anybody who was at the game identify the Westminster player?  Apparently there are multiple #10s, or somebody switched with Kerr.  Very surprised to find there were no ejections listed in the play by play.

Whoa
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2015, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: AO on September 13, 2015, 09:00:01 PM
http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673 (http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673) can anybody who was at the game identify the Westminster player?  Apparently there are multiple #10s, or somebody switched with Kerr.  Very surprised to find there were no ejections listed in the play by play.

Isaiah Faulk is the other 10 on the roster, listed as a junior running back.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AO on September 13, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2015, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: AO on September 13, 2015, 09:00:01 PM
http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673 (http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673) can anybody who was at the game identify the Westminster player?  Apparently there are multiple #10s, or somebody switched with Kerr.  Very surprised to find there were no ejections listed in the play by play.

Isaiah Faulk is the other 10 on the roster, listed as a junior running back.
After a little more research I've learned Isaiah was ejected, and per Ed Marra on twitter (https://twitter.com/edmarra/status/642915888354754560), he broke Zak Dickey's jaw.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 14, 2015, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: AO on September 13, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2015, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: AO on September 13, 2015, 09:00:01 PM
http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673 (http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673) can anybody who was at the game identify the Westminster player?  Apparently there are multiple #10s, or somebody switched with Kerr.  Very surprised to find there were no ejections listed in the play by play.

Isaiah Faulk is the other 10 on the roster, listed as a junior running back.
After a little more research I've learned Isaiah was ejected, and per Ed Marra on twitter (https://twitter.com/edmarra/status/642915888354754560), he broke Zak Dickey's jaw.

I wonder what the PAC will do as far as punishment or will Westminster beat them to it?  LeGarrette Blount comes to mind with the post game punch at Boise State in 2010.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AO on September 15, 2015, 07:56:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 14, 2015, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: AO on September 13, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2015, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: AO on September 13, 2015, 09:00:01 PM
http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673 (http://deadspin.com/fight-breaks-out-at-diii-football-game-1730410673) can anybody who was at the game identify the Westminster player?  Apparently there are multiple #10s, or somebody switched with Kerr.  Very surprised to find there were no ejections listed in the play by play.

Isaiah Faulk is the other 10 on the roster, listed as a junior running back.
After a little more research I've learned Isaiah was ejected, and per Ed Marra on twitter (https://twitter.com/edmarra/status/642915888354754560), he broke Zak Dickey's jaw.

I wonder what the PAC will do as far as punishment or will Westminster beat them to it?  LeGarrette Blount comes to mind with the post game punch at Boise State in 2010.
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/09/15/investigation-launched-after-punches-thrown-during-local-college-football-game/ (http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/09/15/investigation-launched-after-punches-thrown-during-local-college-football-game/) No broken bones, but Dickey might still decide to pursue charges.  Westminster claims they will handle it privately.  I don't see how you could ever let him represent your school again.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 16, 2015, 08:21:38 AM
He is no longer listed on their roster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AO on September 16, 2015, 10:19:42 AM
Looks like the youtube was deleted.  If you still haven't seen the video, you can view it here. http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/punches-thrown-during-wj-westminster-football-game/nnfxS/?ref=cbTopWidget (http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/punches-thrown-during-wj-westminster-football-game/nnfxS/?ref=cbTopWidget)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GillCJ1 on September 16, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Wow!  There's just no excuse for that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on September 16, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Wow!  There's just no excuse for that.

Not at all condoning the action...BUT.  But there's NO excuse for that?  You can't think of even one excuse- one thing said or done not captured by the 60 seconds of video we've seen that might have incited the Westminster player?  Again, I'm not condoning that action and that kid unfortunately can't play football anymore this season.  He gave that up when he started face punching.  But my first feeling on watching the video is that that tackle and those haymakers were provoked by something beyond standard issue on-field trash talk.  What happened there isn't the reaction of somebody who is just frustrated about losing and getting blocked on a kick return.  There's more investigating to be done on this I think. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 16, 2015, 12:20:15 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on September 16, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Wow!  There's just no excuse for that.

Not at all condoning the action...BUT.  But there's NO excuse for that?  You can't think of even one excuse- one thing said or done not captured by the 60 seconds of video we've seen that might have incited the Westminster player?  Again, I'm not condoning that action and that kid unfortunately can't play football anymore this season.  He gave that up when he started face punching.  But my first feeling on watching the video is that that tackle and those haymakers were provoked by something beyond standard issue on-field trash talk.  What happened there isn't the reaction of somebody who is just frustrated about losing and getting blocked on a kick return.  There's more investigating to be done on this I think. 

I enjoy a good grammatical nitpick as much as the next guy but no, no excuse for assault.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:29:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 16, 2015, 12:20:15 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on September 16, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Wow!  There's just no excuse for that.

Not at all condoning the action...BUT.  But there's NO excuse for that?  You can't think of even one excuse- one thing said or done not captured by the 60 seconds of video we've seen that might have incited the Westminster player?  Again, I'm not condoning that action and that kid unfortunately can't play football anymore this season.  He gave that up when he started face punching.  But my first feeling on watching the video is that that tackle and those haymakers were provoked by something beyond standard issue on-field trash talk.  What happened there isn't the reaction of somebody who is just frustrated about losing and getting blocked on a kick return.  There's more investigating to be done on this I think. 

I enjoy a good grammatical nitpick as much as the next guy but no, no excuse for assault.

Agreed that the assault never should have happened.  I definitely think that player has to sit out the rest of the year and perhaps even face some legal issues over this.  I'd just like to know more about what happened during the game and between those two players specifically before doling out white hats and black hats. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 12:39:09 PM
Come on Wally. The only excuse for that kind of violence is genuine fear for your safety. There is no excuse for it on the playing field. The opposing player said something crude about his mother 47 times during the game? Still can't excuse it. Say something back about what you did to his sister last night if you must, but you don't commit assault. You got cheap shotted below the knees on a few plays? Fine, next time you scrum jam an elbow into his gut. That's the little dirty stuff that happens in a game and it's not something to be proud of or accept, but it is excusable. This particular reaction, an obvious assault, is completely inexcusable.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2015, 12:39:09 PM
Come on Wally. The only excuse for that kind of violence is genuine fear for your safety. There is no excuse for it on the playing field. The opposing player said something crude about his mother 47 times during the game? Still can't excuse it. Say something back about what you did to his sister last night if you must, but you don't commit assault. You got cheap shotted below the knees on a few plays? Fine, next time you scrum jam an elbow into his gut. That's the little dirty stuff that happens in a game and it's not something to be proud of or accept, but it is excusable. This particular reaction, an obvious assault, is completely inexcusable.

Just to be clear, I think the player acted inappropriately and has earned a season-long suspension as well as the possibility of criminal action.  It was awful.  Full Stop. 

Now, I'd just like to know what else happened out there that led to the brutality.  I think that's a fair ask. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GillCJ1 on September 16, 2015, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on September 16, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Wow!  There's just no excuse for that.

Not at all condoning the action...BUT.  But there's NO excuse for that?  You can't think of even one excuse- one thing said or done not captured by the 60 seconds of video we've seen that might have incited the Westminster player?  Again, I'm not condoning that action and that kid unfortunately can't play football anymore this season.  He gave that up when he started face punching.  But my first feeling on watching the video is that that tackle and those haymakers were provoked by something beyond standard issue on-field trash talk.  What happened there isn't the reaction of somebody who is just frustrated about losing and getting blocked on a kick return.  There's more investigating to be done on this I think.

No doubt.  I'm sure the kid was provoked in some way.  I'd like to know his reasons for doing it, too.  I still stand by my statement, though.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 16, 2015, 01:53:26 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:29:01 PM
I definitely think that player has to sit out the rest of the year and perhaps even face some legal issues over this.  I'd just like to know more about what happened during the game and between those two players specifically before doling out white hats and black hats.

I have had a few interesting discussions with my father about this.  My father never played football, but has now spent the better part of his adult life attending my pee-wee, junior high, high school, collegiate games and subsequently remained devoted enough that he is attending some football game virtually every weekend, be it our hometown high school, one of the many D2 or D3 schools where we know someone playing, or the occasional D1 game (just last week we went to Hawaii @ Ohio State, just to take in the experience and support Hawaii!). 

We are both in agreement that this behavior is abhorrent and that there is no excuse - I agree with jknezek that even if the dude has called your mother dirty names all night and threatened to murder your sister, there is still no excuse for this on the field - but admit that in some other cases, it can be hard to draw the line between what constitutes regular on-field, boys-mixing-it-up behavior with a criminal assault.  It's even more muddled with hockey - fighting is an accepted part of the game, but if a guy swings a stick or gets slashed with a skate, now we're talking assault.  I would actually prefer to see harsher penalties enforced on any degree of extracurricular activity so this line is made more clear.

On a tangent here...a local high schiool coach was recently suspended (and may be fired, the school board is still reviewing the case, I think) for some degree of physical contact with his own player during a preseason scrimmage.  Much as wally wants to see the tape here, I kind of wanted to see the tape when I heard about it.  Why?  Because I don't know (from the newspaper's description of the incident) what transpired, and I'd like to see what happened before passing judgement.  Here's what the paper had to say:

"District officials have not publicly released any details about the incident. However a source told the (paper) that (coach) ran onto the field during a play and threw a hard block at a (team) lineman, knocking him to the ground.  The incident was captured on video by the (team) football staff, but that video has not been shared with the public. It has been viewed by district officials as part of their investigation."

While this sounds a little off-beat to me and might be a genuinely problematic thing, again...I want to see the video before deciding if this was an off-the-chain, he's-gotta-go incident or a coach getting a little overzealous trying to get his young lineman fired up.  I don't believe we should go back to the Woody Hayes and Bear Bryant style, but surely there has to be some allowance for a coach to teach technique and motivate his charges, right?

(Note: I know that the very end of this is far, far from the Westminster incident...the prior discussion just kind of led me on this tangent)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 16, 2015, 06:10:43 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on September 16, 2015, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on September 16, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Wow!  There's just no excuse for that.

Not at all condoning the action...BUT.  But there's NO excuse for that?  You can't think of even one excuse- one thing said or done not captured by the 60 seconds of video we've seen that might have incited the Westminster player?  Again, I'm not condoning that action and that kid unfortunately can't play football anymore this season.  He gave that up when he started face punching.  But my first feeling on watching the video is that that tackle and those haymakers were provoked by something beyond standard issue on-field trash talk.  What happened there isn't the reaction of somebody who is just frustrated about losing and getting blocked on a kick return.  There's more investigating to be done on this I think.

You ARE condoning the action by insisting that there might be something that could justify it.  When my kids were growing up I always told them that you cannot control what someone else says or does but you CAN control how you react to it.  Reacting by committing a crime is never ever justified.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 16, 2015, 06:23:01 PM
The player has left the team. Story in the Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2015/09/16/Westminster-College-Isaiah-Faulk-leaves-team-after-video-of-altercation-goes-viral/stories/201509160179?utm_campaign=echobox&utm_medium=social&utm_source=d3football).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: sigma one on September 16, 2015, 06:47:48 PM
Provoked is a relative term.  Many of you Wabash guys know my background.  I've studied the short video, which does not provide what may have led to the punches.  Perhaps the game tape will provide some context.  In my opinion no matter what happened to "provoke" the incident, it is inexcusable, and perhaps criminal.  Most of us have had our parentage questioned, our mothers and sisters maligned, etc--I know i don't have to go on.  Taking into account all of this, including some off-camera bad behavior by the W & J player prior to what the video segment shows (and I can't speculate on what may or may not have happened), there is no excuse for the deliberate attack.  We all know that high emotion, competitiveness, even personal animosity can play a role when violence occurs.  I more than once had talks with students (you Wabash guys know what I mean) about their violent reactions to events.  The rationalizations and excuses varied from "I was drunk," to he "dissed" me, to he hit on my girlfriend--and even some more elaborate and clever defenses.  None of those excuses excused the violence that ensued, although some of it led me to question the other student(s) involved about their behavior. 
     And in an athletic contest, these kinds of violent incidents, with big, strong people (bigger and stronger than most young men themselves realize) must be punished in a way that sends a message to the player and to all who are trying to find the best way to play games.  As some  have noted, there may be "extenuating circumstances," but those really should not much matter when determining the consequences of such a vicious attack against a player on his back and apparentlly defenseless.
     For the attacking player, the incident may have been out of character, or not. But he did what he did.  Some extenuating circumstances may affect the punishment. (I more than once had a student say to me something like "I've never been in trouble--I've never done anything like this before and don't know why, even now, I did what I did;  OR that might mean I've never been caught before.)  Regardless, the incident has to speak for itself  Only the severity of the punishment might be influenced by other factors.
     For the record, I was writing this when Pat posted about the player leaving the team.  I'll leave it up anyway.
 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 16, 2015, 10:02:25 PM
Gang,

I think that this next game should give we CWRU fans some idea as to whether or not we've made any improvement from last season.

Our last game was a heartbreaker, so if we can turn things around and beat a team that felled us in our last meeting, then I'll feel better about our chances of going .500 or better.

I hope that Cuda continues to play as well as he did last game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 17, 2015, 07:08:39 AM
Who is going to be in Cleveland this weekend?  We will be up on the  top of the parking garage pre game.  Come say hello.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 17, 2015, 04:54:34 PM
Would love to be there and say Hello, but alas, I'm stationed in Hawaii.

It's a bit far away!

Last year's Geneva game was the first CWRU football game that I attended in person in over 20 years.

I had the privilege of meeting ADL70 at that game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2015, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 16, 2015, 06:23:01 PM
The player has left the team. Story in the Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2015/09/16/Westminster-College-Isaiah-Faulk-leaves-team-after-video-of-altercation-goes-viral/stories/201509160179?utm_campaign=echobox&utm_medium=social&utm_source=d3football).

To echo what was said in the article, I hope this kid grows from this.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 19, 2015, 09:45:27 PM
Convincing win by CWRU today over a team that we lost to last season.

I now think that we'll be OK.  Cuda was great at QB.

Let's hope that the progress continues against Thiel next week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2015, 09:57:03 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 19, 2015, 09:45:27 PM
Let's hope that the progress continues against Thiel next week.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say that if they don't beat Thiel next week, it shall be a long season up at CWRU.

We saw TMC get almost 10 yards a play today against the Tomcats. 

Trap game against a very good team in Westminster for the Saints.  Hope Scafe has their attention and not looking ahead to October 3rd because Westminster can beat Thomas More.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 20, 2015, 01:53:57 PM
Observations from W & J 38, CMU 14 yesterday:

- W & J offense moved the ball just about at will.  Think this is partly a function of a very strong Presidents offense (Coughlin, Ruffing, the WR who wears #2, and the OL were all very impressive) and partly a function of a struggling, undersized CMU defense.  Tartans have moved one of last year's starting ILB's to the nose guard position, and it's not because he's exceptionally big - it's because they have no other good options on the DL at the moment.  Really spells trouble against any teams that can run effectively.

- On the flip side, CMU running back Sam Benger had a field day with 21 carries for 303 yards.  The Presidents did almost entirely shut down the CMU passing game, meaning that the Tartans still only got 14 points from two big Benger rushes and any third-and-long situation was a troublesome one.

Going forward, I expect that CMU will be able to compete evenly against the mid-level PAC teams on the strength of the OL and Benger, as long as the defense can do a little better against the Thiel and Grove City type teams as opposed to the mighty Prez.

W & J, on the other hand, is quite good but given what we have seen from the TMC offense so far...I wonder if the Prez defense will be a problem against the Saints.  Benger is a fabulous player but he is the only thing CMU has and W & J still could not stop him or even slow him down.  TMC has much more all-around offensive talent, and if they play a good game against W & J, I expect that they can score an awful lot on the Prez.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2015, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 20, 2015, 01:53:57 PM
TMC has much more all-around offensive talent, and if they play a good game against W & J, I expect that they can score an awful lot on the Prez.

Man, I hope you're right!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 21, 2015, 07:41:32 AM
Ex Tartan,

Thanks for the summary. Banger is, indeed, the real deal and I hope he (and the Tartans) have a great run the rest of the year. It's good to see the CMU W&J rivalry resumed.

Looks like the W&J coaching staff may have made some defensive adjustments at halftime. A cursory look at the play by play for CMU in the second half shows no points and 122 yards of total offense. Benger had rushes of 1, 1, 3, 0, 3, 66, 1, 7, 2 for a total of 84 yards.

W&J has next week off giving them two weeks to prepare for Thomas More. I'm hoping for a good game with a W&J win, but who knows. I'll be in Austin, TX for a family gathering, but maybe I can find a quiet place to follow the feed.

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2015, 09:13:13 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 21, 2015, 07:41:32 AM
W&J has next week off giving them two weeks to prepare for Thomas More. I'm hoping for a good game with a W&J win, but who knows.

You're exactly right with this statement.  Who knows... they are college kids.  The last two years after a close loss in OT at SJF and a 13 point defeat at Wesley in the Openers I thought Thomas More would be ready to play against W&J.. we all know how that went.  Of course, last year's game should've been in Cincinnati but thats another topic for another time.

Hopefully both teams can stay healthy this week and are at their best on October 3rd.  I know its the game of the year in the PAC but hopefully its not really close with the home team again holding serve. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 21, 2015, 11:40:15 AM
Cuda is 5th in d3 in TO/G and 15th in PassEff.

Debs has noted his similarity to Whalen.  Great performance by the D, especially with Sandidge out.  Ninth in rushing D.  Need to get the RBs going though.  I see 6-4 or even 8-2 as possible.

Did anyone see Waynesburg starting 0-2 in PAC?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 21, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 21, 2015, 11:40:15 AMWhat a great name for a RB -- Banger.

Reminds me of a local kid.  His name was Gunnar Holcombe and every time he took the field I wondered if his parents knew he would be a QB in high school. 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 21, 2015, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 21, 2015, 07:41:32 AM
Looks like the W&J coaching staff may have made some defensive adjustments at halftime. A cursory look at the play by play for CMU in the second half shows no points and 122 yards of total offense. Benger had rushes of 1, 1, 3, 0, 3, 66, 1, 7, 2 for a total of 84 yards.

Oh, they sure did.  Benger found far less running room in the second half; the W & J coaches presumably realized that the CMU passing game was not hurting them at all and decided they would dare CMU to throw.  The Tartans just could not make them pay for this (not entirely through fault of the QB; dropped passes and protection struggles contributed).

Apologies if my post came off as knocking the Prez - obviously they were the far superior side.  Really just trying to find something to say about a lopsided game other than "W & J totally smoked us" as well as providing some discussion fodder for how W & J will match up against TMC and beyond.

If I were a Presidents fan, I really would be worried about that W & J defense against a good offense.  It is fair to point out that perhaps the Prez staff held back some exotic defensive looks knowing that CMU really couldn't hurt them through the air, and that they were likely to win, and that could be true.  No question about it.  But even with that taken in consideration, it would still concern me that Benger just ran away from the defense on two of his TD runs.  The 85-yarder in the second quarter was a straight dive play where he broke the line and just ran away from the defense.

On the flip side, the CMU defense is not very good, but the Prez offense sure is.  Coughlin threw one of the prettiest deep balls I've ever seen a 5'10" Division III quarterback put up on the 75-yard TD to Zubik, and Eric Scott is a darn impressive WR as well - he made two catches where the CMU defensive back was in position with good coverage and Scott just plain outleaped him for the ball, including a nasty back-shoulder catch that left me & my former teammate saying "Dude, not much you can do about that one."  Ruffing is an unspectacular but solid runner - it seemed like he was good for 6 yards on every carry.  They will be a tough task to handle for all but the absolute best Division III defenses.

As for the Thomas More - W & J matchup....SaintsFAN complaining about the road night games aside ( :P ) this kind of thing always fascinates me.  Sometimes one team just has the other's number even when the two look comparable on paper...the last few years, TMC has shown the ability to obliterate low-middle competition but has not consistently shown up in the biggest games.

2013 was a good example...I watched Geneva lose a 41-34 shootout at Carnegie Mellon.  Even though CMU won the game, I noted that Geneva's offense was extremely impressive, so I watched the next few weeks with interest.  Geneva had scored 47, 51, 49, and 34 points in their first four games...the next week TMC held Geneva to 88 total yards.  Geneva scored 27+ points in eight of their ten games, and scored 14-plus on everyone but Thomas More.  Somehow TMC just pasted them.  88 total yards! 

That same week TMC was curb-stomping a respectable Geneva team 61-0, the Presidents were losing to Bethany 24-19 (for fun: Bethany had lost 51-33 to Geneva two weeks prior).

I saw that TMC was playing W & J next week and fully expected the Saints to blow their doors off, bringing the PAC crown back to TMC after a couple years away.

Nope.  Despite 268 yards from Domonique Hayden...they gave up 45 points.  Where was the defense that had just shut down Geneva to the tune of 88 total yards?

For whatever reason, the Prez have just had the Saints' number the last few seasons (yes, SaintsFAN, I hear you in the back of the classroom grumbling about the road night games).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 21, 2015, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on September 21, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 21, 2015, 11:40:15 AMWhat a great name for a RB -- Banger.

Reminds me of a local kid.  His name was Gunnar Holcombe and every time he took the field I wondered if his parents knew he would be a QB in high school.

My bad they were saying it like "Banger," but it's spelled "Benger."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 21, 2015, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 21, 2015, 11:40:15 AM
Cuda is 5th in d3 in TO/G and 15th in PassEff.

Debs has noted his similarity to Whalen.  Great performance by the D, especially with Sandidge out.  Ninth in rushing D.  Need to get the RBs going though.  I see 6-4 or even 8-2 as possible.

Did anyone see Waynesburg starting 0-2 in PAC?

I think Kickoff did. We projected 3-7 overall, 2-6 in the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 21, 2015, 01:14:06 PM
Ahh, well done sirs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 21, 2015, 06:10:57 PM
Have not seen W & J post highlights of their own (and there will be many), but for anyone who wants to see what the Sam Benger show looked like on Saturday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYJuFEFc-vQ

The highlights are not in game chronological order, but:

First play is 85-yard TD run (second quarter)
Second play is 66-yard run (third quarter)
Third play is 51-yard TD run (first quarter)
Fourth play is a 48-yard run
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 21, 2015, 10:01:15 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 21, 2015, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 21, 2015, 07:41:32 AM
Looks like the W&J coaching staff may have made some defensive adjustments at halftime. A cursory look at the play by play for CMU in the second half shows no points and 122 yards of total offense. Benger had rushes of 1, 1, 3, 0, 3, 66, 1, 7, 2 for a total of 84 yards.

Oh, they sure did.  Benger found far less running room in the second half; the W & J coaches presumably realized that the CMU passing game was not hurting them at all and decided they would dare CMU to throw.  The Tartans just could not make them pay for this (not entirely through fault of the QB; dropped passes and protection struggles contributed).

Apologies if my post came off as knocking the Prez - obviously they were the far superior side.  Really just trying to find something to say about a lopsided game other than "W & J totally smoked us" as well as providing some discussion fodder for how W & J will match up against TMC and beyond.

If I were a Presidents fan, I really would be worried about that W & J defense against a good offense.  It is fair to point out that perhaps the Prez staff held back some exotic defensive looks knowing that CMU really couldn't hurt them through the air, and that they were likely to win, and that could be true.  No question about it.  But even with that taken in consideration, it would still concern me that Benger just ran away from the defense on two of his TD runs.  The 85-yarder in the second quarter was a straight dive play where he broke the line and just ran away from the defense.

On the flip side, the CMU defense is not very good, but the Prez offense sure is.  Coughlin threw one of the prettiest deep balls I've ever seen a 5'10" Division III quarterback put up on the 75-yard TD to Zubik, and Eric Scott is a darn impressive WR as well - he made two catches where the CMU defensive back was in position with good coverage and Scott just plain outleaped him for the ball, including a nasty back-shoulder catch that left me & my former teammate saying "Dude, not much you can do about that one."  Ruffing is an unspectacular but solid runner - it seemed like he was good for 6 yards on every carry.  They will be a tough task to handle for all but the absolute best Division III defenses.

As for the Thomas More - W & J matchup....SaintsFAN complaining about the road night games aside ( :P ) this kind of thing always fascinates me.  Sometimes one team just has the other's number even when the two look comparable on paper...the last few years, TMC has shown the ability to obliterate low-middle competition but has not consistently shown up in the biggest games.

2013 was a good example...I watched Geneva lose a 41-34 shootout at Carnegie Mellon.  Even though CMU won the game, I noted that Geneva's offense was extremely impressive, so I watched the next few weeks with interest.  Geneva had scored 47, 51, 49, and 34 points in their first four games...the next week TMC held Geneva to 88 total yards.  Geneva scored 27+ points in eight of their ten games, and scored 14-plus on everyone but Thomas More.  Somehow TMC just pasted them.  88 total yards! 

That same week TMC was curb-stomping a respectable Geneva team 61-0, the Presidents were losing to Bethany 24-19 (for fun: Bethany had lost 51-33 to Geneva two weeks prior).

I saw that TMC was playing W & J next week and fully expected the Saints to blow their doors off, bringing the PAC crown back to TMC after a couple years away.

Nope.  Despite 268 yards from Domonique Hayden...they gave up 45 points.  Where was the defense that had just shut down Geneva to the tune of 88 total yards?

For whatever reason, the Prez have just had the Saints' number the last few seasons (yes, SaintsFAN, I hear you in the back of the classroom grumbling about the road night games).
LOL - I know, right??
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 26, 2015, 09:33:03 AM
Need a Spartan win today for bragging rights with my best friend who was at Thiel same time I was at CWRU.

I'm looking for Canganelli to bounce back from the hamstring injury to last season's form and add another dimension to the O.

Nice to see that Coach Miller is rotating in as many as six or seven backups keeping the D fresh.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 26, 2015, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 26, 2015, 09:33:03 AM
Need a Spartan win today for bragging rights with my best friend who was at Thiel same time I was at CWRU.

I'm looking for Canganelli to bounce back from the hamstring injury to last season's form and add another dimension to the O.

Nice to see that Coach Miller is rotating in as many as six or seven backups keeping the D fresh.

Speaking of D, Gavin should be back today.  I will be watching from Miami Beach.  Go Spartans!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 26, 2015, 03:01:07 PM
These Thiel announcers are awfully critical of a QB who is ripping their defense to shreds.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 26, 2015, 03:03:34 PM
Thomas More has inserted subs at 31-0 at Westminster.  It's now 38-0 in the 3rd.  I think we can look forward to next week's showdown.  I booked my flight on Wednesday.  See everyone in KY.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 26, 2015, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on September 26, 2015, 03:01:07 PM
These Thiel announcers are awfully critical of a QB who is ripping their defense to shreds.

They were just awful period!  Not that ours are anything to write home about.
Cuda did have a lot of low throws early though.
Great to hear from you Jeff!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 27, 2015, 12:41:14 AM
Good dominant showing today.  The QB continues to shine.

Bethany will be a BIG test next week.  If we can pull of the upset, then we'll certainly be competitive in the rest of conference play.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 27, 2015, 08:36:35 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 26, 2015, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on September 26, 2015, 03:01:07 PM
These Thiel announcers are awfully critical of a QB who is ripping their defense to shreds.

They were just awful period!  Not that ours are anything to write home about.
Cuda did have a lot of low throws early though.
Great to hear from you Jeff!

I LOVED how he ripped a long bomb after their extended period of discussing how they weren't sure he could throw one. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 27, 2015, 08:46:30 AM
Haha, yes, the timing was perfect on that throw.  Also, his long run for a TD came right after they said he's not very athletic and can't run well.

ADL70, thanks!  I'm still around mostly reading on here, just with a lot less time these days.  Hopefully, next season I'll be able to get back out for a few games.  And, yes, those announcers were terrible.  I was trying to be nice in my original post.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 27, 2015, 07:24:08 PM
Took in the Geneva-CMU game yesterday out in Beaver Falls.  Really neat stadium - I don't think there has ever been a Geneva presence on these boards, but man they have a cool little place nestled into the side of a hill with lots of trees in the background.  Big crowd, although it was homecoming so that may have contributed.  Geneva offense threatened a few times in the first half but overall it felt like the Tartans were in control from the 3rd quarter onwards.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 27, 2015, 10:12:34 PM
My best guess at the PAC power rankings, based on what we have seen so far:

1A. Washington & Jefferson
1B. Thomas More

Kinda obvious that these are the top 2.  TMC has been more impressive this season; W & J is the reigning champ.  We will have our answer to this one soon enough.

3. Case Western
4. Westminster
5. Bethany

Kind of a jumble here.  CWRU has been very impressive the last two weeks.  Westminster has won a pair and lost to the league's alpha dogs - one close, one blowout.  Bethany lost to Westminster but has a pair of PAC wins; the Case-Bethany game is an interesting one this week that will tell us who has the pole position for the bronze medal.

6. St. Vincent
7. Carnegie Mellon
8. Geneva

CMU just tuned up Geneva on the road.  I know it's just one win but with their two toughest games for awhile behind them, the Tartans have the chance to build some momentum here.  Will they take it?  Benger looks like one of the best individual players in the league at any position.

9. Waynesburg

Surprising to have Waynesburg, a traditionally decent program, this low...but they have already lost to Geneva, St. Vincent AND Bethany.  Looks like a tough year for the Jackets.

10. Grove City
11. Thiel

So Thiel has a win and Grove City doesn't, but I think you can make a qualitative case that Grove City has been a better team this season.  Thiel beat a dreadful Allegheny team in the opener and has been tuned up three times since; Grove Cit has been competitive in all three losses.  Maybe I'm reading too far into that one but I think Grove City may be a little bit tougher.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 28, 2015, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 27, 2015, 10:12:34 PM


CWRU has been very impressive the last two weeks.


Given Chicago's manhandling of Centre I'd say the one point loss to Chicago was more impressive. Agree that this week's game will tell a lot.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 02, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
Looks like Bethany has a well produced video stream (second camera on sidelines and replays) although the perspective is a bit of a low angle.

Westminster had four ints in their win over Bethany and the Bison have given up some long KORs.

Bethany is averaging 5.3 yds per rush if you throw out Mt Union game, but CWRU is giving up only 2.0 yds/rush.  Something has to give.  Chicago is averaging 4.9/rush and Spartans held them to 2.6.  31 of their 79 yards came on one cutback run, where Carroll was stopped at the line of scrimmage, but reversed field and broke away from the pack which had over pursued. I think Spartans will control Bethany's ground game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 02, 2015, 02:17:04 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 02, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
Looks like Bethany has a well produced video stream (second camera on sidelines and replays) although the perspective is a bit of a low angle.

Westminster had four ints in their win over Bethany and the Bison have given up some long KORs.

Bethany is averaging 5.3 yds per rush if you throw out Mt Union game, but CWRU is giving up only 2.0 yds/rush.  Something has to give.  Chicago is averaging 4.9/rush and Spartans held them to 2.6.  31 of their 79 yards came on one cutback run, where Carroll was stopped at the line of scrimmage, but reversed field and broke away from the pack which had over pursued. I think Spartans will control Bethany's ground game.

It looks like Bethany has a pair of good receivers.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 02, 2015, 11:57:25 PM
I really feel like Westminster is on the rise and is the clear #3 in the PAC. 

I'm basing this off what I've seen, I'm not sure about the tiers, outside of the Top 2, this is where I expect teams to finish. 

1. W&J
2. TMC

3. Westminster
4. CWRU
5. St Vincent
6. Bethany
7. Geneva
8. Waynesburg
9. Thiel
10. CMU
11. Grove City
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 03, 2015, 07:25:37 AM
SaintsFAN:

Carnegie Mellon just beat Geneva 35-7, at Geneva, on Homecoming!

I think they have to be above Geneva, and therefore ahead of Waynesburg and Thiel...I mean, I know there will always be some weird results that don't necessarily jibe with the season-ending standings, but I think CMU is (at this point) clearly better than those three. If those had all been one-score games the picture would be more muddled, but CMU decisively beat Geneva.  I think the Tartans are at 7 for now.

Big game today for the Saints. Can they get that W & J monkey off their back?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 03, 2015, 09:36:16 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 03, 2015, 07:25:37 AM
SaintsFAN:

Carnegie Mellon just beat Geneva 35-7, at Geneva, on Homecoming!

I would agree CMU has to be above Geneva and since Geneva beat Waynesburg it has to be above Waynesburg for now. I also don't think you can separate Westminster and CWRU at this time.  Right now they haven't played any common opponents and they haven't played each other.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2015, 09:58:58 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 03, 2015, 07:25:37 AM
SaintsFAN:

Carnegie Mellon just beat Geneva 35-7, at Geneva, on Homecoming!

I think they have to be above Geneva, and therefore ahead of Waynesburg and Thiel...I mean, I know there will always be some weird results that don't necessarily jibe with the season-ending standings, but I think CMU is (at this point) clearly better than those three. If those had all been one-score games the picture would be more muddled, but CMU decisively beat Geneva.  I think the Tartans are at 7 for now.

Big game today for the Saints. Can they get that W & J monkey off their back?

They will get the monkey off their backs today.. Unless they don't.  :)

I guess I'm not that in tune with the PAC teams but I think that's where they finish, btw.  (Big whoops there) To address another comment:  unless CWRU got ALOT more athletic this year over last year, I don't view them as equal to Westminster.  Westminster is very solid and has some very good athletes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Schwami on October 03, 2015, 10:14:52 AM
I don't know what to make of Westminster, but would be inclined to have them behind CWRU.

In the first game of the year, Westminster led the Hiram Puppies 7-3 with 4 minutes left in the game.  The last 4 minutes had 2 TDs and a FG for a final score of Westminster 17-9, but Hiram outgained Westminster 399 to 281.  Each team had 3 turnovers.

Hiram has only gone on to lose to Kenyon 34-17 and DePauw 45-7, and I shudder to think what will happen today at Wabash.

Westminster, on the other hand, turned around the next week and had a ridiculously close game at W&J, leading most of the way until W&J scored in the final two minutes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2015, 10:59:45 AM
Quote from: Schwami on October 03, 2015, 10:14:52 AM
I don't know what to make of Westminster, but would be inclined to have them behind CWRU.

In the first game of the year, Westminster led the Hiram Puppies 7-3 with 4 minutes left in the game.  The last 4 minutes had 2 TDs and a FG for a final score of Westminster 17-9, but Hiram outgained Westminster 399 to 281.  Each team had 3 turnovers.

Hiram has only gone on to lose to Kenyon 34-17 and DePauw 45-7, and I shudder to think what will happen today at Wabash.

Westminster, on the other hand, turned around the next week and had a ridiculously close game at W&J, leading most of the way until W&J scored in the final two minutes.
Is it a new staff at Westminster?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 02, 2015, 02:17:04 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 02, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
Looks like Bethany has a well produced video stream (second camera on sidelines and replays) although the perspective is a bit of a low angle.

Westminster had four ints in their win over Bethany and the Bison have given up some long KORs.

Bethany is averaging 5.3 yds per rush if you throw out Mt Union game, but CWRU is giving up only 2.0 yds/rush.  Something has to give.  Chicago is averaging 4.9/rush and Spartans held them to 2.6.  31 of their 79 yards came on one cutback run, where Carroll was stopped at the line of scrimmage, but reversed field and broke away from the pack which had over pursued. I think Spartans will control Bethany's ground game.

It looks like Bethany has a pair of good receivers.

Yes to be fair and balanced I should have mentioned record setting WR Eric Blinn and also stud DE Nadim Raddar.

Looks like a blustery day in Bethany.

Addressing other topics:

Westminster has an advantage over CWRU in the PAC standings, because its close loss to W&J doesn't count as a conference game.  And they don't play CWRU.

SaintsFAN, CWRU has a very athletic sophomore QB in Rob Cuda who is making a BIG difference.  And on D they've been rotating in a lot of players keeping the squad fresh.

What new athletes has Westminster acquired to boost them from 4-6, 4-4?  But I agree they are clearly on the rise.

But we will know a lot more after today.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 03:27:50 PM
CWRU up on Bethany 35-13 at the half. Cuda already has 263 yds total offense and three td passes.

Bethany's announcers clearly were not "Hooked on Phonics."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 03, 2015, 03:58:40 PM
I turned it off at 49-13.

CWRU may very well be this year's PAC sleeper.

Cuda is the real deal!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 04:08:51 PM
Cuda was taken out after just two series in the third quarter.

52-13 now.

Westminster over CMU 26-16
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 03, 2015, 05:14:50 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2015, 09:58:58 AM
To address another comment:  unless CWRU got ALOT more athletic this year over last year, I don't view them as equal to Westminster.  Westminster is very solid and has some very good athletes.

CWRU has added a dynamic offense to what was already a solid defense.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2015, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 02, 2015, 02:17:04 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 02, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
Looks like Bethany has a well produced video stream (second camera on sidelines and replays) although the perspective is a bit of a low angle.

Westminster had four ints in their win over Bethany and the Bison have given up some long KORs.

Bethany is averaging 5.3 yds per rush if you throw out Mt Union game, but CWRU is giving up only 2.0 yds/rush.  Something has to give.  Chicago is averaging 4.9/rush and Spartans held them to 2.6.  31 of their 79 yards came on one cutback run, where Carroll was stopped at the line of scrimmage, but reversed field and broke away from the pack which had over pursued. I think Spartans will control Bethany's ground game.

It looks like Bethany has a pair of good receivers.

Yes to be fair and balanced I should have mentioned record setting WR Eric Blinn and also stud DE Nadim Raddar.

Looks like a blustery day in Bethany.

Addressing other topics:

Westminster has an advantage over CWRU in the PAC standings, because its close loss to W&J doesn't count as a conference game.  And they don't play CWRU.

SaintsFAN, CWRU has a very athletic sophomore QB in Rob Cuda who is making a BIG difference.  And on D they've been rotating in a lot of players keeping the squad fresh.

What new athletes has Westminster acquired to boost them from 4-6, 4-4?  But I agree they are clearly on the rise.

But we will know a lot more after today.

That's good.  I just was picturing last years team against a disinterested TMC - I'm glad to hear about the QB.  Have they played W&J yet (too lazy to look). 

Thomas More looked tremendous and overwhelming once they inserted backup QB Brennan Kuntz.  Dynamic and spurtable with Gebhardt, they are just about unbeatable in the PAC with Kuntz playing the way he did today.  The DB's were left alone on islands as they played man to take away the Prez run game and limit Coughlin's scrambles.  They responded with 4 INTs and about 8 pass breakups.  They played really well.  I'd love to see the INT return yardage for today.

Anyhow, that answers the W&J/TMC question, I think.  The Saints are ready to move up to that level of teams just below Mount/Whitewater/ Linfield/UmHB.  I think it's the "can make a run in the tourney" category, as related to me.  We'll see but this year just feels different and they have a HC who has been to the Regional Finals - he just exudes confidence and the team responds.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 07:26:04 PM
W&J is three weeks away.  After Waynesburg and Geneva.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2015, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 07:26:04 PM
W&J is three weeks away.  After Waynesburg and Geneva.

Thank you.

I'm reserving judgement on this the 2015 version of Case until after they play W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 04, 2015, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2015, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 07:26:04 PM
W&J is three weeks away.  After Waynesburg and Geneva.

Thank you.

I'm reserving judgement on this the 2015 version of Case until after they play W&J.

Centre losing to Hendrix and a less than dominant win over BSC has taken some of the lustre off of the one point loss to Chicago. Even though Chicago gained a couple of votes this week. CWRU scored big wins over St Vincent and Bethany, teams it lost to last year. CWRU led W&J 9-6 at the half last year before losing 34-24. So far CWRU is at least 10 points better than last year.  W&J is at 19 this week without any convincing wins, going from a 35 point margin to 4 over Westminster compared to last season.  But then last season's PAC third, Waynesburg, didn't garner any votes in the final poll.

Bottom line CWRU is vastly improved over last season, but I can't distinguish them from Westminster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on October 04, 2015, 10:12:15 PM
I was at the BSC game. Chicago couldn't put them away but that game never felt in doubt. Long trip to play in a cold misty drizzle left them looking uninspired. Also QB took a shot just before or after halftime. Stayed in but the zip was off his passes and he was shaking his throwing arm after many plays. I was impressed with  hicago. Very solid team despite the score.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 05, 2015, 07:32:36 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2015, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 07:26:04 PM
W&J is three weeks away.  After Waynesburg and Geneva.

Thank you.

I'm reserving judgement on this the 2015 version of Case until after they play W&J.

W&J will be a tough game for CWRU.  CWRU is better than last year.  I am certain of that.  CWRU lost by 1 to Chicago which is a very very strong team.  That is the only good team they have played.  There is no reason to think they can't put up a fight against W&J.  That doesn't mean they will but there is no reason to think they can't.

They do have to deal with two other teams before they can focus on W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 05, 2015, 08:52:43 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 05, 2015, 07:32:36 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 04, 2015, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2015, 07:26:04 PM
W&J is three weeks away.  After Waynesburg and Geneva.

Thank you.

I'm reserving judgement on this the 2015 version of Case until after they play W&J.

W&J will be a tough game for CWRU.  CWRU is better than last year.  I am certain of that.  CWRU lost by 1 to Chicago which is a very very strong team.  That is the only good team they have played.  There is no reason to think they can't put up a fight against W&J.  That doesn't mean they will but there is no reason to think they can't.

They do have to deal with two other teams before they can focus on W&J.

Agreed they will give W&J some issues... I think they'd match up better with the Presidents than they do with Thomas More.  Sirrianni last week said the Saints are probably the most talented team he's coached against in the regular season since he's been at W&J. 

I'm  not sure about Chicago though - we'll see how they finish.  I felt like Centre was over valued and CWRU just may be their best win to date. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 05, 2015, 10:23:49 AM
The Saints certainly seem to be rolling over everybody.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 06, 2015, 09:02:16 PM
Marching into the playoffs?

CWRU got its first vote in the AFCA poll.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2015, 09:09:36 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 06, 2015, 09:02:16 PM
Marching into the playoffs?

CWRU got its first vote in the AFCA poll.

That's good news for CWRU - I'd love to see them in the D3 Poll.  I've been enlightened a little bit on the Spartans this week by ExTP and learned a lot more about them.  I'm adding them to my teams to watch just outside the 25.  The game against W&J will be huge for them - as I don't think of Chicago as a great team.  Good team, yes, but not great. 

I'd love to see the TMC at Case game be for the PAC Title but there is a lot of football yet to be played, obviously. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 07, 2015, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 06, 2015, 09:02:16 PM
Marching into the playoffs?

CWRU got its first vote in the AFCA poll.

In my son's words "Lets worry about Waynesburg first." 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 07, 2015, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 07, 2015, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 06, 2015, 09:02:16 PM
Marching into the playoffs?

CWRU got its first vote in the AFCA poll.

In my son's words "Lets worry about Waynesburg first."

The marching I referred to was the Saints.  ;)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2015, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 07, 2015, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 07, 2015, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 06, 2015, 09:02:16 PM
Marching into the playoffs?

CWRU got its first vote in the AFCA poll.

In my son's words "Lets worry about Waynesburg first."

The marching I referred to was the Saints.  ;)

As a former player, alum and a fan / I'd prefer that the team doesn't get ahead of themselves and respects the daily process they've used to prepare for each of the 5 seasons they've played in 5 weeks this year:)

Otherwise, yes, I'm hoping to have the problem of needing to schedule flights back to CVG so I can attend playoff games at BB&T Field in Crestview Hills.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 08, 2015, 10:15:46 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 07, 2015, 10:23:20 AM
The marching I referred to was the Saints.  ;)

I should have caught that. 

The CWRU parents will be in our normal tailgate spot (top of the parking garage) before the game.  Come joint us for a drink!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 08, 2015, 03:10:12 PM
Thanks for the invite, will do.  This is likely my last live Spartan game.  In two weeks I will have moved to Texas.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GillCJ1 on October 08, 2015, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 08, 2015, 03:10:12 PM
Thanks for the invite, will do.  This is likely my last live Spartan game.  In two weeks I will have moved to Texas.

...where you will be welcomed with open arms!  However, I understand all too well how hard it is to move away from your team.  I miss the tailgates and other pre-game traditions from my years spent in Atlanta.  Enjoy your last game, and hopefully you will get more chances in the future.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 08, 2015, 05:01:02 PM
ADL70,

To which part of Texas are you moving? 

I was born and raised in Houston, and still visit the area at least twice per year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 08, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
Moving to Sun City in Georgetown where I can also follow Southwestern and UMHB. All of my family have migrated to central Texas or further west.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2015, 06:21:58 PM
Welcome to Texas ADL70.

The best book on Texas History is TR Fehrenbach's Lone Star.

Go on Amazon and get a 1968 or a 1985 version. His 2001 version is too politically correct and covers some of the "juicy" stuff you find in the real history.

Buy a Dave Campbell's Texas Football Magazine and enjoy some great high school football, especially in the smaller towns.

As for race relations in 2015?  Well, the head football coaches at both UT and A&M are both black.

"Nuff said."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 08, 2015, 06:47:43 PM
I did watch the History Channel's dramatization Texas Rising though no doubt there were many liberties taken.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2015, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 08, 2015, 06:47:43 PM
I did watch the History Channel's dramatization Texas Rising though no doubt there were many liberties taken.
When I heard where in Texas the show was being filmed, I gave it a pass. The coastal plains  have a completely different look from where the show was filmed, like 15-20 inches of rainfall per year!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 09, 2015, 12:25:49 AM
ADL70,

The Houston and Austin CWRU alumni groups collaborate on an annual Winery tour event in the Austin area.  I've been twice.

GREAT fun!  Check it out!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 09, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 08, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
Moving to Sun City in Georgetown where I can also follow Southwestern and UMHB. All of my family have migrated to central Texas or further west.

Good luck in your new location.  I'll bet you will not miss winter in OH.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 09, 2015, 12:47:39 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 09, 2015, 12:25:49 AM
ADL70,

The Houston and Austin CWRU alumni groups collaborate on an annual Winery tour event in the Austin area.  I've been twice.

GREAT fun!  Check it out!

Best of luck - having just moved to Boston three weeks ago, I feel your pain - moving is awful
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 10, 2015, 06:33:54 PM
It was a pretty day in Washpa for homecoming but for the Grovers, not so much. W&J scored the first 5 times they had the ball and the defense shut down the GC offense.

In the pre game radio interviews  Sirianni and Young both said they felt they were Thomas More's equal last week, but mistakes (some, no doubt, caused by TM) killed their chances. No excuses offered but this far in the season you would expect a good team (and W&J is a good team) to minimize their mistakes.

The W&J CWRU game is starting to look very interesting assuming both win next week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 10, 2015, 06:36:55 PM
Another dominating win for CWRU today.  Outgained Waynesburg 581-201.

Cuda was an amazing 25 of 28 for 268 yards.  He's now thrown 16 TD passes this season without an interception.  He also ran for another 63 yards, and has 452 on the season to lead the team.

I anticipate another win next week against Geneva.

At that point.................we'll have a chance to see if we're really a contender, or just a pretender, against W&J and St. Thomas More.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 10, 2015, 08:42:32 PM
I'm starting to think CWRU's Week 1 loss to Chicago was a blessing in disguise.  It forced them to sit and think about it for two long weeks and learn from their mistakes...kicking them into gear against St. Vincent. Also, now there is no pressure for a perfect season, so the team seems to be playing loose.   Remaining schedule will be challenging.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 11, 2015, 04:11:23 PM
Took in the Bethany @ CMU game last night.  Lots of offensive fireworks early, and it slowed down a little but never really stopped.  Bethany ran 106 offensive plays, which is as high of a number as I can ever remember seeing in a box score.  Game was rather chippy and two Bison players were ejected.  I'm sure some Bethany fans would argue that the officials were out to get them, but I actually believe that was a very well officiated game; the Bethany kids were, um, not very sportsmanlike.

For CMU, Benger ran for another 201 yards to reach 985 for the season in 5 games.  Zoinks.  The CMU passing game also found some legs, although I think that is a function of a poor Bethany pass defense.  Moving forward, I expect that the Tartans will be favored against Grove City next week, have a toss-up with St. Vincent, then favored against Thiel.  It would be marvelous to win all three and reach 5-3 entering tough games vs. Chicago and CWRU to close the season.

Much like last year, I think the league as a whole is very mediocre but also quite internally competitive in the lower reaches.  TMC and W & J are clearly a step ahead of the pack.  Case Western has not beaten a really good team yet but, to their credit, has blown everyone they've played in the PAC and probably is the only team capable of providing an interesting game for W & J and TMC from here on out.  I don't know if the whole team has risen a level or if Rob Cuda has just made that much of a difference, but holy heck, what a season Cuda has been putting up.

1. TMC
2. W & J
-------------------------------
3A. Case Western
3B. Westminster

These two will not play one another so we may not be able to award an official bronze medal here, but Case has blown out #5 St. Vincent, Thiel, Bethany, and Waynesburg (everyone in the non-heavyweight class) while Westminster

------------------------------
5. St. Vincent
6. Carnegie Mellon
7. Bethany

St. Vincent's blowout loss to Case knocks them out of Tier 2, but they also have beaten Waynesburg, Grove City, and Thiel.  I think the CMU-St. Vincent game on 10/24 will be a toss-up that determines the #5 spot.  CMU has only 2 wins, but that's partly a function of schedule as they have only lost to higher-ranked teams and beaten #7 Bethany and #8 Geneva.  After seeing them in person, Bethany has a very impressive offense and no defense at all, but given their wins over Thiel and Waynesburg I have them here for now.  Geneva also has two wins, but having seen both in person CMU had a much easier time against Geneva (who they shut down) than Bethany (who they had to win a shootout).  Geneva maybe belongs in this tier as well.

------------------------------
8. Geneva
9. Waynesburg
10. Grove City
11. Thiel

Geneva has beaten Grove City and Waynesburg.

Waynesburg has beaten only Grove City in the league. 

Thiel and Grove City have both struggled, but GCC has been more competitive while Thiel is getting killed every week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 11, 2015, 06:46:48 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 10, 2015, 08:42:32 PM
I'm starting to think CWRU's Week 1 loss to Chicago was a blessing in disguise.  It forced them to sit and think about it for two long weeks and learn from their mistakes...kicking them into gear against St. Vincent. Also, now there is no pressure for a perfect season, so the team seems to be playing loose.   Remaining schedule will be challenging.

No.  And I'll tell you why:  pretty simple, if they finish with two losses there is no chance of a tournament bid.  If they go 1-1 against W&J and Thomas More, you are going to be upset at going to an ECAC Bowl (as you should be).  If CWRU is good enough to beat one or both of those teams, they belong in the dance.  And it won't happen with two losses.

The other thought is teams make the most improvement between games 1 and 2.  I think it can be even greater when an off week is involved (I refuse to call it a BYE).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 11, 2015, 06:48:39 PM
ExTP:  I am picking up what you're putting down.  Other than a couple spots down low, I buy your logic.  You've seen more of the teams than I have.  Why don't you come to Kentucky on Halloween for their last regular season home game?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 11, 2015, 10:35:54 PM
SF -- I don't believe CWRU is an ECAC member, so they won't be eligible for a bowl.

XTP -- did you mean to say more about Westminster?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 11, 2015, 11:32:27 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 11, 2015, 06:48:39 PM
ExTP:  I am picking up what you're putting down.  Other than a couple spots down low, I buy your logic.  You've seen more of the teams than I have.  Why don't you come to Kentucky on Halloween for their last regular season home game?

Will have to take a pass on the Kentucky invite - my fiancee will be visiting me in the Burgh that weekend.

Re: sorting the teams, it's actually much easier this year than last year.  Go look at my rankings from Week 5 or 6 last year - there was a daisy-chain of 5 or 6 teams that had ALL beaten each other at least once.  Here the Case-Westminster thing is the only one we can't just settle because they haven't played one another, and they're both clearly better than everyone else below.

But from there on down...

St. Vincent > Waynesburg, Grove City, Thiel
CMU > Bethany and Geneva
Bethany > Waynesburg and Thiel
Geneva > Waynesburg and Grove City
Waynesburg > Grove City

...sorts out pretty easily.  For now, anyway.  There are no violated H2H results.  St. Vincent and CMU we don't really have clear data, so for now I am giving St. Vincent the benefit of the doubt with 3 wins vs. 2 wins, but we'll find out soon enough there.  CMU has beaten Bethany and Geneva, has to be ahead of them.  You could argue that Bethany and Geneva are about equal - similar wins - but again, I saw both in person against CMU and was much more nervous about Bethany (who scored enough that I was never quite relaxed until very late) than Geneva, who we had under control the whole game.  I mean, it's weird to have Waynesburg that low but they've already lost to St. Vincent, Bethany, and Geneva; there's just no possible argument for them to be higher.

ADL - whoops, good catch,  Went on to typing the rest of the post and forgot to address Westminster, lol.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2015, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 11, 2015, 10:35:54 PM
SF -- I don't believe CWRU is an ECAC member, so they won't be eligible for a bowl.

XTP -- did you mean to say more about Westminster?

Thanks, sir. 

ExTP - if the game is for the PAC Marbles I may fly into Cleveland for the CWRU/TMC game.  I assume you'd be able to make that?  All depends on me being able to talk my wife into not being extremely mad that I'd be leaving Boston for the Midwest but not seeing them while I'm there.  And driving is out of the question. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2015, 12:45:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2015, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 11, 2015, 10:35:54 PM
SF -- I don't believe CWRU is an ECAC member, so they won't be eligible for a bowl.

XTP -- did you mean to say more about Westminster?

Thanks, sir. 

ExTP - if the game is for the PAC Marbles I may fly into Cleveland for the CWRU/TMC game.  I assume you'd be able to make that?  All depends on me being able to talk my wife into not being extremely mad that I'd be leaving Boston for the Midwest but not seeing them while I'm there.  And driving is out of the question.

Unfortunately that weekend is out of the question...I would dearly love to see that game, but I happen to be at that stage in my late 20's where everyone (cousins, friends, the works) is getting married (I just got engaged a few months ago myself) and I have to go out of town seemingly every weekend (part of this also because my fiancee is currently living in Michigan so I travel to see her at least once a month as well).  Between traveling to see her, weddings, and a little bit of work travel, I have been out of town for more weekends in 2015 than I have been at home.  My fiancee is a champ - on one of her visits to Pittsburgh she went along to Beaver Falls to see CMU @ Geneva, and didn't even complain - but I think asking to skip her cousin's wedding on 11/7 for a football game (that doesn't even involve my alma mater) is probably going a bridge too far :)

I am enjoying the precious next 2 weekends before another onslaught hits.  Fortunately, I will get to see the Tartans at home at least twice more, on 10/24 and 11/14.

From 11/7 through 12/4, I will be occupied every weekend except 11/14 (when I will watch CWRU @ CMU).  If Mount Union is hosting a semifinal game on 12/11, if the matchup looks enticing, I might try to go...I have never seen a game at Mount and think it would be cool to take in a national semifinal.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 12, 2015, 01:43:56 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2015, 12:45:28 PM
From 11/7 through 12/4, I will be occupied every weekend except 11/14 (when I will watch CWRU @ CMU).

Congratulations on your engagement!

I will try to make contact with you at that game.  Since it will probably be Aaron's last game ever we will be in Pittsburgh for that game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2015, 02:11:52 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2015, 12:45:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2015, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 11, 2015, 10:35:54 PM
SF -- I don't believe CWRU is an ECAC member, so they won't be eligible for a bowl.

XTP -- did you mean to say more about Westminster?

Thanks, sir. 

ExTP - if the game is for the PAC Marbles I may fly into Cleveland for the CWRU/TMC game.  I assume you'd be able to make that?  All depends on me being able to talk my wife into not being extremely mad that I'd be leaving Boston for the Midwest but not seeing them while I'm there.  And driving is out of the question.

Unfortunately that weekend is out of the question...I would dearly love to see that game, but I happen to be at that stage in my late 20's where everyone (cousins, friends, the works) is getting married (I just got engaged a few months ago myself) and I have to go out of town seemingly every weekend (part of this also because my fiancee is currently living in Michigan so I travel to see her at least once a month as well).  Between traveling to see her, weddings, and a little bit of work travel, I have been out of town for more weekends in 2015 than I have been at home.  My fiancee is a champ - on one of her visits to Pittsburgh she went along to Beaver Falls to see CMU @ Geneva, and didn't even complain - but I think asking to skip her cousin's wedding on 11/7 for a football game (that doesn't even involve my alma mater) is probably going a bridge too far :)

I am enjoying the precious next 2 weekends before another onslaught hits.  Fortunately, I will get to see the Tartans at home at least twice more, on 10/24 and 11/14.

From 11/7 through 12/4, I will be occupied every weekend except 11/14 (when I will watch CWRU @ CMU).  If Mount Union is hosting a semifinal game on 12/11, if the matchup looks enticing, I might try to go...I have never seen a game at Mount and think it would be cool to take in a national semifinal.

Congrats on your engagement - definitely sounds like you have a keeper.  You're also ahead of the curve in picking your "battles".  I highly recommend attending a Mount Union-semi.  I've been lucky enough to attend this game a few times.  I've seen Wheaton, Mary Hardin-Baylor, and Wesley.  The only real blowout was Wesley and the MHB game was a classic.  It's been very interesting to me to see those games and realize how far my alma mater had to go to compete.  I'd love to try again this year but I also want to be at the Stagg Bowl, so we'll see - pick your battles.  It will be hard for me to do both since I'm away from my girls during the week. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 12, 2015, 03:39:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 11, 2015, 06:46:48 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 10, 2015, 08:42:32 PM
I'm starting to think CWRU's Week 1 loss to Chicago was a blessing in disguise.  It forced them to sit and think about it for two long weeks and learn from their mistakes...kicking them into gear against St. Vincent. Also, now there is no pressure for a perfect season, so the team seems to be playing loose.   Remaining schedule will be challenging.

(I refuse to call it a BYE).

We are of one mind. +k

I wish we did have the opportunity for an ECAC game, it would be a fitting reward for the seniors.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 15, 2015, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2015, 06:21:58 PM
Welcome to Texas ADL70.

The best book on Texas History is TR Fehrenbach's Lone Star.

Go on Amazon and get a 1968 or a 1985 version. His 2001 version is too politically correct and covers some of the "juicy" stuff you find in the real history.

Buy a Dave Campbell's Texas Football Magazine and enjoy some great high school football, especially in the smaller towns.

As for race relations in 2015?  Well, the head football coaches at both UT and A&M are both black.

"Nuff said."

Late in responding to this.  Not sure how race got into this, maybe from the book you mentioned.

I also just remembered that UT's hoops coach is a Kenyon grad.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2015, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 15, 2015, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 08, 2015, 06:21:58 PM
Welcome to Texas ADL70.

The best book on Texas History is TR Fehrenbach's Lone Star.

Go on Amazon and get a 1968 or a 1985 version. His 2001 version is too politically correct and covers some of the "juicy" stuff you find in the real history.

Buy a Dave Campbell's Texas Football Magazine and enjoy some great high school football, especially in the smaller towns.

As for race relations in 2015?  Well, the head football coaches at both UT and A&M are both black.

"Nuff said."

Late in responding to this.  Not sure how race got into this, maybe from the book you mentioned.

I also just remembered that UT's hoops coach is a Kenyon grad.
Thanks ADL.

The 1968 and 1985 books characterize the hard racial struggles in Texas in the 19th century, slavery east of "Interstate 35" and with Tejanos, west of "Interstate 35".  I am glad that those are mellowing out.  McMurry is probably one of the most homogenously Texan and racially colorblind schools in the country, 50% white, 30% Hispanic and 20% black.

Also, there was literally a range war with the Comanches, Apaches and Kiowas from the 1820's to the mid 1880's to subjugate the indigenous peoples on the plains.  The Spaniards had been unable to do it from 1718 onward with their feeble mission system until Texas broke away from Spain in the 1824 Revolution.

I hope all will read the book. It is incredibly fascinating.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 17, 2015, 06:24:55 PM
I've just been told that Geneva says that there will be Internet video of tonight's game despite the link yielding "No events scheduled."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2015, 12:59:55 PM
I don't think there were any surprising final results in the PAC yesterday, although the closeness of the TMC-St. Vincent and Case-Geneva games was kind of surprising.

1. Thomas More (7-0, 5-0) escaped a surprising test from St. Vincent yesterday (tied at 28 in the fourth quarter) and will try to stay awake for the next two weeks against Grove City and Waynesburg before the finale at Case Western.  At this point, even if Cases loses to W & J, it appears that game is likely to have some sort of league-title impact (if a 1-loss Case beat TMC, it would create a three=way tie).  Remains the heavy favorite.

2. W & J (5-1, 3-1) did about what I would have expected against Bethany after seeing both teams live vs. CMU.  The final of 66-42 makes the game appear somewhat more competitive than it was (52-21 at halftime, 59-21 after first possession of second half).  This week's game against Case Western is a must-win to keep playoff hopes alive, and also likely the last serious test for W & J in the regular season.

------------------------------------------------

3A. Case Western (5-1, 5-0) played probably their least impressive game of the season yesterday, but if we give Thomas More the benefit of the doubt for a shaky-ish game against St. Vincent, I think Case gets one freebie for possibly looking ahead to W & J next week.  CWRU offense was a little sluggish but they held Geneva to 124 yards and never were in danger of losing the game.  Next week's game against W & J is the biggest game for Case since Whalen graduated.  I am really, really interested to see what happens here...since the opening loss to Chicago (currently 5-1 themselves) Case has blown through the league's bottom half the way any good league champion should, but I think they have played the absolute bottom-five teams in the league, so any finish from 9-1 down to 6-4 is probably still in play here.

3B. Westminster (5-2, 4-1) has only one official conference loss (I assume either the W & J or Thomas More game was technically a non-league game) and does not play Case Western.  Going by common opponents, I think Case has been slightly more impressive (bigger blowouts of Bethany and Waynesburg) but the true deciding factor will be how CWRU performs against W & J and Thomas More, and also how Westminster does against St. Vincent this week.

------------------------------------------------

5. St. Vincent (3-3, 2-2) gave Thomas More an interesting game yesterday that should give some optimism heading into the back half of the schedule.  They have only notched wins against the very bottom of the league and their last four games are all against teams around them in these rankings.  How they do will determine a lot about how the final standings beneath the top three teams fall.

6. Carnegie Mellon (3-3, 3-2) has also held chalk against the teams below them and lost to the top teams.  CMU-St. Vincent next week will tell us a little about how to order all of these teams.  CMU does own h2h wins over Geneva and Bethany.

------------------------------------------------

7A. Geneva (2-4, 1-3)
7B. Bethany (2-5, 1-4)

We'll get our answer when these two meet next week.  I think Bethany is a little better (offense is really good with no defense) but might as well let them settle it with next week's game.

-------------------------------------------------

9. Waynesburg (2-5, 1-4) unfortunately has to be beneath Geneva and Bethany, despite having the same league record, because they lost h2h against both (decisively, too).  These guys beat W & J last year, for Heaven's sakes!  What the heck happened?

10. Grove City (0-6, 0-4)
11. Thiel (1-5, 0-4)

Thiel has a win but it came against an Allegheny team that's legitimately among the worst in all of Division III.  They have been totally non-competitive since.  Grove City was competitive in their first couple of losses, although that has faded the last two weeks.  These guys will get to play in week 11 for some pride.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2015, 01:56:57 PM
St Vincent had an excellent game plan, offensively and jumped out to a 14-0 lead 7 minutes into the game.  I was very encouraged by the comeback and was happy to see Thomas More tested again.  Their focus didn't seem to be there yesterday, except when they really needed to make plays.  Too many penalties (9 penalties) and 3 INTs ( one was a pick-six and both of the others were intercepted in the end zone) - are a couple areas they need to clean up.  Backup QB Kuntz again came into the game in the 3rd stanza and steadied Thomas More.  He is a big, athletic QB with a big time arm (which is why he initially was headed to Western Kentucky University).  The read option is very tough to defend with him and either Pitts or Tarrant in the game. 

I really believe St Vincent's inability to complete passes in the 2nd half (they completed two- one was for no gain and the other was a pick six by Trey Wells) helped Thomas More win the game, as they could focus on Playing the run.  This was especially true in the fourth quarter as the Bearcats were going into the wind.  A key play was a 64 yard punt by Fuller which was downed inside St Vincent's one yard line - Wells' pick six came two plays later.

Anyways - they have another road trip to PA this weekend for Grove City and then they can focus on Waynesburg for Senior Day.  It's looking like the Case game should be a test for both W&J and TMC.  I'm rooting for W&J, though strictly for the Regional Rankings.  I'd love to see Thomas More as a 2 in the South and get home games, should they handle business over the next 3 weeks. 

Like ExTP said, I'm inclined to give CWRU and TMC some slack for the closer than expected games - college kids, right around midterms, and both were road games.  And I'm 100% in agreement with his PAC Rankings, though that a .50 couldn't buy you a coffee. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2015, 02:33:17 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2015, 01:56:57 PM
Anyways - they have another road trip to PA this weekend for Grove City and then they can focus on Waynesburg for Senior Day.  It's looking like the Case game should be a test for both W&J and TMC.  I'm rooting for W&J, though strictly for the Regional Rankings.  I'd love to see Thomas More as a 2 in the South and get home games, should they handle business over the next 3 weeks. 

This is a pretty good point.  I am rooting for CWRU for the sake of change, but as a Thomas More fan you absolutely should be rooting for this to make sure TMC retains a win over an RRO.  The South RR's are going to be a little funny and it's faintly possible that CWRU beating W & J followed by TMC beating CWRU would result in neither team staying in the RR's or only one ranked being pretty low, while a 9-1 W & J is almost assuredly staying solidly in the RR's.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 18, 2015, 04:09:11 PM
Geneva pressured and contained Cuda as well as any team has so far.  The Spartans abandoned the controlled passing game opting instead for lots of 20+ yard attempts, without a great deal of success.  Similar to XTP's discussion of Wabash-Kenyon: "took advantage of a game against an opponent that he knew couldn't score on the ... defense to work on a few things."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 18, 2015, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2015, 12:59:55 PM
Case Western ... any finish from 9-1 down to 6-4 is probably still in play here.

Are you conceding the CWRU-CMU game?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2015, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 18, 2015, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 18, 2015, 12:59:55 PM
Case Western ... any finish from 9-1 down to 6-4 is probably still in play here.

Are you conceding the CWRU-CMU game?

haha, I had typed "any finish from 9-1 down to 5-5" and then thought...well, I don't want to concede the CMU-CWRU game, but it's hard to imagine Case losing the last 4 games after how good they've looked through the first 6.  We'll see how the next few weeks unfold, but right now I would have Case as about a 17-point favorite against CMU - their offense has been consistently good and the CMU defense has not.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 19, 2015, 11:49:34 AM
Great analysis as usual, XTP!

The big question mark for me is Westminster.  On the one hand, they did play W&J close.  But other than that, they haven't been overly impressive.  Hiram outgained them by 120 yards and Westminster was only up 7-3 with 4 minutes left in the 4th quarter (turnovers kept Hiram off the board, they had 400 yards offense).  Also, Bethany had more yards offense than Westminster and was only down 28-24 in the 4th quarter.

Also, I'm encouraged by Case's play this year and hope they can give W&J a run for their money next week.  Even in their loss to Chicago (first game for the sophomore quarterback) they outgained them 468-348 yards and seemed to have the game almost put away (up 24-10 with 12 minutes to go) until falling apart at the end (giving up 21 points in the last 12 minutes and missing an extra point to lose by 1).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 19, 2015, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2015, 01:56:57 PM
Their focus didn't seem to be there yesterday, except when they really needed to make plays.

Isn't that the mark of a good (well coached) team?  They manage to play well enough to win even on days when they don't play their best.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2015, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 19, 2015, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2015, 01:56:57 PM
Their focus didn't seem to be there yesterday, except when they really needed to make plays.

Isn't that the mark of a good (well coached) team?  They manage to play well enough to win even on days when they don't play their best.

Yes - but they are very, very talented, too.  Scare has no doubt done everything right this year.  My hope is they just put their foot on the gas and leave it there the final three weeks and then rest up during their off week in Week 11. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2015, 10:41:53 PM
Quote from: emma17 on October 18, 2015, 06:01:50 PM
Teams to measure Pool C candidates against.
In looking at the final 16 teams in the playoff bracket the last 3 years and then at their season and playoff scores to find their level of competitiveness in all games played, from my perspective (which means there could be others), I see three levels.
Level A (these are teams that prove themselves competitive in every or nearly every game they play).  If there are too many teams for your liking from the West or North and not enough from the East or South, it is in no shape, way or form my fault:
UWW
Mt. Union
Linfield
UMHB
St. Thomas
NCC (argue all you want about Linfield in 2012)
Wheaton
Wabash
Bethel
UWO
Wesley (yes, they are hard to figure).

Level B: (these teams usually play competitively and should be considered as good competition):
St. John's
Wartburg
UWP
John's Hopkins
St. John Fisher
TLU (B- or TBD)
JCU (but on the way out and should be viewed very skeptically)

Level C (these teams make the playoffs and sometimes advance, but they rarely beat a B or come even close to beating an A, as such, they should not be given the benefit of the doubt for Pool C entrance when compared with a B or A team- until they advance through Pool A and prove competitive against a B or A team).
Hobart
Widener (C+)
Franklin
Rowan
Hamp-Syd
Ithaca
CNP
Cortland State
Wash and Jeff

I very well may have missed some teams and in no way do I mean to slight them.  Feel free to add teams that you feel make sense.

This is a great example of what Coach Scafe and his staff is working with.  TMC should be on this list but they didn't make the playoffs in the last three seasons.  When this guy thinks about the best programs in Dicision 3, he doesn't remember the program with the best winning percentage in the division.  The Saints should have a huge chip on their shoulders these last three weeks as they have a chance to prove they are worthy of inclusion on a list like this.  This should be hung in the locker room for all to see.  They've monkey stomped one team on here, beaten another by 18, played two tough games (Wesley and SJF) and been smoked in another game (W&J).  Thomas More should be on the list but there hasn't been a playoff berth since 2011.  I know this senior class wants to make the playoffs and will show up to play these last three games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2015, 10:48:14 PM

Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on October 16, 2015, 05:20:36 PM
#12 - Thomas More - Again, I know nothing about Thomas More.  The only thing that I can see is that the winner of their conference in 2014, W&J, had a playoff loss to MUC 67-0. (and Thomas More lost to W&J by 23 points..). And the PAC is 12-18 in the playoffs.  I'd definitely place UWP, St Johns and North Central ahead of Thomas More.  Frankly they seem to be at best a Top 15-25 team until they show it in the playoffs (or a team from their conference).

The danger in ranking a team you don't know much about is frankly not knowing what you don't know.  For instance a one possession game at W&J turned into a blowout after TMC lost their QB at the end of the third quarter in 2014 - how many teams in the top 25 could survive that, on the road in a game of that magnitude?  I definitely feel Thomas More must prove themselves to be a contender in the tournament this year, though and having seen the top teams like MHB, UMU, Wheaton and Wesley in person, I definitely feel like the 2015 TMC team has reached the level where they CAN prove themselves.  We'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 19, 2015, 10:52:41 PM
Something that might be a fun time-killer on the boards: most of our chatter has focused on teams and rankings, but I thought it would be fun to spotlight some individuals that are having outstanding seasons.

CMU sophomore running back Sam Benger has 1,174 rushing yards through 6 games this season.  Westminster is the only team that's held him under 100 yards (just 83 yards on 26 carries); in the other five games he has rushed for at least 189 yards in every game, including a 303-yard masterpiece against W & J (no garbage-time numbers padding either - most of that actually came in the first half).  That's just insane.  He has scored a touchdown in every game and had a run of 30-plus yards in every game but the Westminster game.  The Tartans might struggle to reach .500 this year but they've found an absolute gem in Benger, and if the defense can improve in the next couple of years, they might have something here.  At his current pace, he might catch my former teammate, Robert Gimson, for 3rd place on the career rushing list by the end of this year or early next year.  He will also have a chance to break my other former teammate Travis Sivek's career record of 4,000 yards and change, but that might at least take until the end of his junior season :)

CWRU sophomore quarterback Rob Cuda had his worst game of the season at Geneva, but even after that game his numbers still look like something out of a video game.  Through six games, he is 113-177 (63.8%) for 1466 yards, 18 TD, 0 INT (18-0!) plus 74 rushes for 467 yards.  When you consider that college rushing stats include sack yardage, that's also incredible.  Video-game stuff.  Really want to see how he handles the big games against W & J and Thomas More in the next couple of weeks.

Not saying these are the only dudes playing good ball in the PAC< just the two guys who have stood out the most on the teams I am most familiar with.  Please feel free to highlight other outstanding performances.  With a pair of young offensive stars like that, the UAA refugees should at least have reason to pay attention the next few seasons. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 20, 2015, 07:59:17 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 19, 2015, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 19, 2015, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 18, 2015, 01:56:57 PM
Their focus didn't seem to be there yesterday, except when they really needed to make plays.

Isn't that the mark of a good (well coached) team?  They manage to play well enough to win even on days when they don't play their best.

Yes - but they are very, very talented, too.  Scare has no doubt done everything right this year.  My hope is they just put their foot on the gas and leave it there the final three weeks and then rest up during their off week in Week 11.

I have seen many talented teams falter because the team is not well coached.  Talent is necessary to be a good team but it isn't enough.  There are plenty of very talented teams that go nowhere.

Edited to add-I think TMC is ultra talented.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 20, 2015, 12:07:41 PM
ExTP - I'll get to this tonight, but with the teams I've seen:  Pete Coughlin and Goose Cohorn stand out offensively.  And Chris Tarrant is bulldog attitude while running the ball.  He doesn't lead in rushing yards, but he's the best RB in the PAC.  Yes, I've seen Ruffing.. Well not really this year as for some reason W&J never really tried to establish the run - Adam Turer and I were both very surprised at this.  But to me, Tarrant would start at any other PAC team at RB.  Same with Goose Cohorn.  I'll look up stats and post later when I have my iPad.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 20, 2015, 12:53:35 PM
There's probably no way to overuse the name Goose Cohorn.  Just tremendous. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2015, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on October 16, 2015, 05:20:36 PM
#12 - Thomas More - Again, I know nothing about Thomas More.  The only thing that I can see is that the winner of their conference in 2014, W&J, had a playoff loss to MUC 67-0. (and Thomas More lost to W&J by 23 points..). And the PAC is 12-18 in the playoffs.  I'd definitely place UWP, St Johns and North Central ahead of Thomas More.  Frankly they seem to be at best a Top 15-25 team until they show it in the playoffs (or a team from their conference).
Not getting into all the reasons all those things happened.
Just gonna list a fact correction.
Don't know where you got PAC is 12-18 in the playoffs, but W&J alone is 22-24 in the NCAA tournament, all of those as a PAC-member school.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 21, 2015, 05:19:50 PM
The battle in Cleveland is looming!

W&J Preview: http://gopresidents.com/documents/2015/10/21//2015_game_notes_CWRU.pdf?id=106

I didn't realize it was Ruffing who tore up CWRU last year. 

A season ago, W&J posted a 34-24 victory over the Spartans on Homecoming, behind 28 second half points and four Ryan Ruffing touchdowns.

Plus, he'll be coming into the game fresh off "PAC Offensive Player of the Week" accolades: http://gopresidents.com/news/2015/10/19/FB_1019154029.aspx

CWRU Preview: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151021f8wzez
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2015, 06:19:39 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2015, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: Walla Walla Wildcat on October 16, 2015, 05:20:36 PM
#12 - Thomas More - Again, I know nothing about Thomas More.  The only thing that I can see is that the winner of their conference in 2014, W&J, had a playoff loss to MUC 67-0. (and Thomas More lost to W&J by 23 points..). And the PAC is 12-18 in the playoffs.  I'd definitely place UWP, St Johns and North Central ahead of Thomas More.  Frankly they seem to be at best a Top 15-25 team until they show it in the playoffs (or a team from their conference).
Not getting into all the reasons all those things happened.
Just gonna list a fact correction.
Don't know where you got PAC is 12-18 in the playoffs, but W&J alone is 22-24 in the NCAA tournament, all of those as a PAC-member school.

In the automatic bid era, the PAC is 12-18.

http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs#9
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2015, 06:22:30 PM
That's not what Walla Walla wrote.
I knew exactly what he was talking about, but what he wrote wasn't accurate, or certainly not complete.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 22, 2015, 08:54:57 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2015, 06:22:30 PM
That's not what Walla Walla wrote.
I knew exactly what he was talking about, but what he wrote wasn't accurate, or certainly not complete.

That's true. If anything, it's too long a span. We should cut the time span back even further.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2015, 01:07:16 PM
Fact is, what any team or conference did last year, last decade, last century is purely historical information with no actual relevance to ranking, selection, seeding of current squads.  "Past performance is no predictor of future success."

So, since you're clearly in charge, cut the time span back even further.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 22, 2015, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2015, 01:07:16 PM
So, since you're clearly in charge, cut the time span back even further.

Can I cut the time span back to where you don't come at me with that assumption or attitude? Just trying to translate the conversation since you said you didn't know where the 12-18 number came from. Maybe you actually do but since that conversation was brought here without much context, it's reasonable to infer that other people don't know what the 12-18 signifies -- it's the most recent 16 years of playoff performance by teams who were PAC members at the time. Seems like a track record of sufficient length.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2015, 03:40:38 PM
Here's the full attitude and assumption:

I don't believe in any fashion that W&J's playoff history should play any part in the determination of this year's teams or their seedings.
I don't believe in any fashion that the PAC 16-year playoff performance should play any part in the determination of this year's teams or their seedings.
I don't believe in any fashion that the PAC all-time playoff performance should play any part in the determination of this year's teams or their seedings.

My statement about not knowing where the 12-18 came from was a simple statement of incomplete facts. 
Hell, the OAC is 0-1 in the playoffs....but, of course, that only includes the most recent game they played.  But it IS factual.

The years since expansion is certainly a time frame of sufficient length, but it's not complete, any more than OAC is 0-1 statement is complete.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2015, 05:21:48 PM
Here are the 18 tourney appearances for the Presidents' Athletic Conference in the modern era.

Almost always one per year as a Pool B from 1999 thru 2004, (except 2003). That is 5.  ( W&J goes 5 wins and 5 losses.)

The Pool A for the next 10 years. That is 10 more. (The conference Pool A goes 5-10.)

Pool C bids earned by W&J in 2005, 2008 and 2009.  (W&J goes 0-1, 2-1 and 0-1 as a Pool C, a 2-3 record)

That is 16 years and 18 teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2015, 05:53:58 PM
What can we consider an average conference?

Over 10 years if you win half of your first round games, then you are no worse than 5 wins and 10 losses for the decade  as a conference.

For this discussion, let's move the time frame out to 16 years. 8 wins and 16 losses thru 2 rounds, .333.

Consider four more wins thru the third round (The Round of 8).  That makes the conference 12-16 for a percentage of .429. 

Two more wins if you make it to the semi-finals, 14-16, .467 percentage. That is almost stratospheric.

If you win the Stagg Bowl, your conference is 15-16 (.484), and still below .500.

I think that puts the bar at .333 for "average".  It may not be the median.  The list in the FAQ shows 32 present and defunct conferences plus  "independents".)  The Centennial is 9-18 and 14th from the bottom,  but we usually don't think of JHU as "average", but those are the statistics. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2015, 10:12:59 PM
Pat, Ralph, and all...

Thanks for what you do for D3 Football.

I guess i'm too old because I had already covered the sport for 15+ years before your version of "the modern era" began...
Heck, by your timing, W&J was already 13-11 in the playoffs.

For me, the "modern era" started somewhere around the end of WWII, or at least 1970.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 22, 2015, 10:19:58 PM
Regardless of your age, I think it's fair to say that a substantial change happened in 1999. The playoff bracket grew by 75% and lots of teams had access to the tournament that did not have it previously.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2015, 09:45:17 AM
Well, now that's over with, so let's talk a little bit about the Case Western-W&J game, which will tell us if we can expect anything interesting coming down the stretch.  Technically, Case is not eliminated from the league-title picture with a loss; they could upset Thomas More and create a three-way tie atop the league standings - but it's pretty hard to imagine Case beating TMC if they do not beat W & J.  And there's an interesting trickle-down here, too.  W& J needs the win to finish 9-1 and have a fighting chance in Pool C.  Thomas More would probably prefer that W & J win because 9-1 W & J will stay in the regional rankings and give them a little boost in their playoff seeding, maybe getting them a second-round home game if things break right, instead of the chance to go play Mount Union.  If W & J loses, it's no slam-dunk that either 8-2 W & J and/or 8-2 Case Western will be in the RR's (for that matter, Westminster also has the chance to finish 8-2, but if W & J is not ranked, they won't be either).

Case Western is a program that does have some recent history of playoff appearances under the current head coach, but several years removed from that era.  It was starting to look like the product of one superior player, Dan Whalen, rather than a program-wide shift in overall talent at CWRU.  The first couple of post-Whalen teams still enjoyed some carry-over success, but even those were starting to fade, and no current player on the Case roster has had a better season than 6-4 since arriving in Cleveland.  Coming into this season, I don't think anyone would have projected last year's 3-7 squad to come storming out of the gates quite the way this year's Spartans have done.

Washington & Jefferson has been the preeminent PAC power for decades now, arguably sharing that mantle with Thomas More in the 2000's, but overall W & J has the most name-brand recognition of any PAC program nationally.  Their program history speaks for itself.

What does Case do well?  Play Rob Cuda at quarterback.  Cuda's numbers are bonkers.  The Case offense has hummed along all year with the sophomore QB pulling the trigger, and he can run pretty well, too.

What doesn't Case do well?  Run the football with players not named Rob Cuda.  Part of this is a product of sharing the load between several different RB's, but none stands out with an especially high yards-per-carry, either.  I don't know if they can hurt you with other guys.

What aren't we sure about?  The Case defense.  CWRU gave up 31 points to the only good team they've played this season, Chicago (5-1 themselves, with their only loss to another 5-1 team).  That's not really awful, as Chicago's offense has been fairly productive overall, but it makes it a little hard to tell whether Case's recent run of dominance on that side of the ball is due to mediocre opposition or their defense really turning a corner.  They did reasonably well against Bethany (don't laugh; despite Bethany's 2-5 record, their offense is pretty good).  I don't think the Case D is a complete shutdown unit, but it's not a total sieve, either.

Worth noting: whether Case wins this game or not, it looks like an exciting time to be a Spartan fan moving forward.  Cuda is a sophomore.  Four of the six guys with 10+ receptions will be back next season.  Five of the six top rushers will be back next season.  The offensive line starts one senior.  The defense is a bit more senior-heavy but the secondary is anchored by three guys who will be back next year.

OK.  Let's take a look at the Prez:

What does W & J do well?  Score points.  Coughlin and Ruffing are about as good as it gets at their positions at schools that don't wear Purple.  Coughlin does not boast quite the numerical insanity of Cuda but, having seen him play, he can ball.  The Prez have some really good receivers, too.

What doesn't W & J do well?  Stop the other team.  303 yards by Sam Benger (most of that in the first half, when it was still competitive).  42 points by Bethany (some garbage-time fourth-quarter, but the Bison had 21 on the board by halftime, too).  31 points by Westminster.  38 points by Goose Cohorn and the Saints (should be a band, by the way).  W & J's fabulous offense has kind of masked the fact that their defense is decidedly average.

What aren't we sure about?  If that defense is just kind of a product of big-scoring offense letting them fall asleep at the wheel once in a while.  Maybe they can produce a shutdown day if they need to.  Maybe the sorta one-dimensional nature of Case's "Cuda Does Everything" offense will be easier to stop than some of the other attacks they've faced this season.

As noted above, the stakes are reasonably high here for both sides.  It's CWRU's first chance to prove themselves against a name-brand, high-quality opponent.  It's W & J's chance to stay alive in Pool C and firmly establish that it's them + Thomas More, then everyone else playing for third.  I'm excited to see what happens.  All the ingredients are in place for a shootout.  Give me the Spartans in a barnburner.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:20:15 AM
Does anyone know how the PAC gets its statistics online? 

I was about to answer ExTartan's question about who is having an outstanding season by pointing out that CWRU's front seven as a unit is having a fantastic season.  It's not about one player within the unit.  All the starters (and some non starters) are solid and together they make an outstanding unit.   

I was sure that I would find that all of CWRUs starting LB PLUS a few non starters were among the conference leaders in tackles per game.  What I found was that despite having 5 linebackers who are averaging more than 2.3 tackles per game (lowest on the list) none of them are listed as conference leaders for tackles at LB.  That's right the four starting LB PLUS ONE MORE are among the conference leaders in tackles at LB.

Three DE/DL are also among the league leaders at their positions for tackles.  They are on the PAC website.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 11:27:02 AM
I find it interesting that the Case stats on the PAC website do not match the Case stats on the Case website. Schools aren't supposed to be changing defensive stats after the game so I don't know why there is a discrepancy.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:55:42 AM
My guess is that the school is NOT changing the statistics.  Perhaps there is something wrong with the feed they are using.

Edited to add.  Sandige is among leaders in tackles but not among leaders for LB.  Perhaps the designations ILB and OLB don't map to the right places.  I am sure it is a computerized process.

Suren is also missing from the PAC leaders among DB.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2015, 11:59:45 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:20:15 AM
I was sure that I would find that all of CWRUs starting LB PLUS a few non starters were among the conference leaders in tackles per game.  What I found was that despite having 5 linebackers who are averaging more than 2.3 tackles per game (lowest on the list) none of them are listed as conference leaders for tackles at LB.  That's right the four starting LB PLUS ONE MORE are among the conference leaders in tackles at LB.

With all due respect to the Case LB's, the number of tackles is not something I would cite as evidence of their quality. 

For one, tackles are one of the most variable things across schools in how they are counted (like assists in basketball).  Unlike a rush for 5 yards, which has no room for interpretation, tackle statistics can be quite variable.  Some schools will award anyone vaguely involved in the play an "assisted" tackle.  Some might be a lot stingier in giving out those assists.

For two, the number of tackles is a function of the number of plays the opponent runs.  Really good defenses that get off the field quickly will not rack up big tackle numbers just because they're not on the field much.  My high school alma mater has been killing everyone they play this year; they're up by 35 at halftime almost every week, and the first-team defense usually has a handful of three-and-outs before giving way to the jayvees.  We have starting linebackers that might only have 3 or 4 tackles/game because they're off the field after 15-20 defensive snaps every week.  Oh, and good defenses that force a lot of incomplete passes...less tackles because nobody gets a "tackle" on an incomplete pass.

This isn't to say that tackles are a worthless stat or that guys who have big tackle numbers do play on bad defenses.  But I think that the number of tackles is somewhat more informative within a team because it can show which defensive players are the most active around the ball on that team, while comparing them between different teams is...well, it has its problems.

I mean, I hope you're right that the Case linebacking unit is going to go out there and swallow Ryan Ruffing and Pete Coughlin whole tomorrow, but just thought this was worth pointing out.

Also, SpartanMom, check your PM's.  Not sure if you do that regularly but I sent you something re: the CMU-CWRU game in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 12:29:04 PM
You really don't think it means ANYTHING that FIVE linebackers are among conference leaders in tackles? I agree with your analysis of why tackles are not the most meaningful statistic but it does have some significance when you are looking at the front seven as a whole (and in context).  When each of your starting front seven, plus an additional player is among the conference leaders that has to say something about the unit.

Looking at the numbers in context tells you that opponents have only run the ball 177 times in 6 games.  That is the lowest in the PAC.  That tells you that teams have seen film and respect the front seven.  It also shows that Case has been ahead much of the time and teams have had to abandon the run. Additionally, it shows that as a unit these guys are having a great season.

I think they have a mighty task ahead of them with W&J.

I answered your PM.  If it didn't go through I will send another reply.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2015, 12:50:45 PM
First - PM didn't go through, so please try again!  Glad that I checked.

Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 12:29:04 PM
You really don't think it means ANYTHING that FIVE linebackers are among conference leaders in tackles? I agree with your analysis of why tackles are not the most meaningful statistic but it does have some significance when you are looking at the front seven as a whole (and in context).  When each of your starting front seven, plus an additional player is among the conference leaders that has to say something about the unit.

No, I really don't think it does.  (Well, maybe it says that they have five guys who play a lot at LB?)

Case's leading tackler (overall), per the Case website, has 32 tackles.  The Bethany defense has seven guys listed with 32 or more tackles (yes, Bethany has played one more game than Case, but even if Case had one more game played, Bethany would still have probably five guys with more tackles than anyone on the Case defense).  Those tackle numbers don't mean anything; the Bethany defense sucks.  Why do those guys have so many tackles?  For one, they can't stop anybody, which means lots of long drives by their opponents, and for two, their offense plays at 100 miles per hour, so they're always on the field.  Lots of plays = lots of tackles to make.

Please do not get the wrong message here.  The Case linebackers might be absolutely fabulous.  I'm really not disputing that.  But the tackle numbers are definitely not how one would make that Case (ha!).  The opponent's low rushing yardage total, low yardage per carry, low points-allowed...that's what tells me that the CWRU linebackers are really good.  But just counting tackles?  Nah.  Like I said, the finite number of tackles available to every team is dependent on the number of plays the opposition runs, the number of passes completed vs. incomplete, etc.  Bethany's defense has a ****load of "tackles" and it's one of the worst in Division III.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 01:42:32 PM
I think you have to look at the front seven as a unit not just the linebackers.  They have an outstanding DL.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 23, 2015, 02:47:31 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 12:29:04 PM
You really don't think it means ANYTHING that FIVE linebackers are among conference leaders in tackles? I agree with your analysis of why tackles are not the most meaningful statistic but it does have some significance when you are looking at the front seven as a whole (and in context).  When each of your starting front seven, plus an additional player is among the conference leaders that has to say something about the unit.

Looking at the numbers in context tells you that opponents have only run the ball 177 times in 6 games.  That is the lowest in the PAC.  That tells you that teams have seen film and respect the front seven.  It also shows that Case has been ahead much of the time and teams have had to abandon the run. Additionally, it shows that as a unit these guys are having a great season.

I think they have a mighty task ahead of them with W&J.

I answered your PM.  If it didn't go through I will send another reply.

That 177 attempt number is about to spike over the last three weeks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 03:05:39 PM
I expect that the 177 rushing attempts (30 per game) will spike significantly on Saturday.  W&J has averaged 43 rushing attempts per game.  PLUS W&J has a powerful passing game so the defense can't sleep on that and focus solely on the run. 


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:55:42 AM
Perhaps the designations ILB and OLB don't map to the right places.  I am sure it is a computerized process.

You have probably hit the nail on the head there. That makes a lot of sense.

However, still surprising to see two different sets of stats.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 23, 2015, 04:48:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:55:42 AM
Perhaps the designations ILB and OLB don't map to the right places.  I am sure it is a computerized process.

You have probably hit the nail on the head there. That makes a lot of sense.

However, still surprising to see two different sets of stats.

Not Mark Carlisle-esqu???
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:55:42 AM
Perhaps the designations ILB and OLB don't map to the right places.  I am sure it is a computerized process.

You have probably hit the nail on the head there. That makes a lot of sense.

However, still surprising to see two different sets of stats.

It's not two different sets of stats.  I think that there are just pieces missing.  Every player who is on the PAC site has the same stats as the CWRU site.  There are some players missing from the PAC stats.  I'm almost certain it is some sort of mapping issue.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 23, 2015, 05:58:34 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2015, 09:45:17 AM
Well, now that's over with, so let's talk a little bit about the Case Western-W&J game, which will tell us if we can expect anything interesting coming down the stretch.  Technically, Case is not eliminated from the league-title picture with a loss; they could upset Thomas More and create a three-way tie atop the league standings - but it's pretty hard to imagine Case beating TMC if they do not beat W & J.  And there's an interesting trickle-down here, too.  W& J needs the win to finish 9-1 and have a fighting chance in Pool C.  Thomas More would probably prefer that W & J win because 9-1 W & J will stay in the regional rankings and give them a little boost in their playoff seeding, maybe getting them a second-round home game if things break right, instead of the chance to go play Mount Union.  If W & J loses, it's no slam-dunk that either 8-2 W & J and/or 8-2 Case Western will be in the RR's (for that matter, Westminster also has the chance to finish 8-2, but if W & J is not ranked, they won't be either).

Case Western is a program that does have some recent history of playoff appearances under the current head coach, but several years removed from that era.  It was starting to look like the product of one superior player, Dan Whalen, rather than a program-wide shift in overall talent at CWRU.  The first couple of post-Whalen teams still enjoyed some carry-over success, but even those were starting to fade, and no current player on the Case roster has had a better season than 6-4 since arriving in Cleveland.  Coming into this season, I don't think anyone would have projected last year's 3-7 squad to come storming out of the gates quite the way this year's Spartans have done.

Washington & Jefferson has been the preeminent PAC power for decades now, arguably sharing that mantle with Thomas More in the 2000's, but overall W & J has the most name-brand recognition of any PAC program nationally.  Their program history speaks for itself.

What does Case do well?  Play Rob Cuda at quarterback.  Cuda's numbers are bonkers.  The Case offense has hummed along all year with the sophomore QB pulling the trigger, and he can run pretty well, too.

What doesn't Case do well?  Run the football with players not named Rob Cuda.  Part of this is a product of sharing the load between several different RB's, but none stands out with an especially high yards-per-carry, either.  I don't know if they can hurt you with other guys.

What aren't we sure about?  The Case defense.  CWRU gave up 31 points to the only good team they've played this season, Chicago (5-1 themselves, with their only loss to another 5-1 team).  That's not really awful, as Chicago's offense has been fairly productive overall, but it makes it a little hard to tell whether Case's recent run of dominance on that side of the ball is due to mediocre opposition or their defense really turning a corner.  They did reasonably well against Bethany (don't laugh; despite Bethany's 2-5 record, their offense is pretty good).  I don't think the Case D is a complete shutdown unit, but it's not a total sieve, either.

Worth noting: whether Case wins this game or not, it looks like an exciting time to be a Spartan fan moving forward.  Cuda is a sophomore.  Four of the six guys with 10+ receptions will be back next season.  Five of the six top rushers will be back next season.  The offensive line starts one senior.  The defense is a bit more senior-heavy but the secondary is anchored by three guys who will be back next year.

OK.  Let's take a look at the Prez:

What does W & J do well?  Score points.  Coughlin and Ruffing are about as good as it gets at their positions at schools that don't wear Purple.  Coughlin does not boast quite the numerical insanity of Cuda but, having seen him play, he can ball.  The Prez have some really good receivers, too.

What doesn't W & J do well?  Stop the other team.  303 yards by Sam Benger (most of that in the first half, when it was still competitive).  42 points by Bethany (some garbage-time fourth-quarter, but the Bison had 21 on the board by halftime, too).  31 points by Westminster.  38 points by Goose Cohorn and the Saints (should be a band, by the way).  W & J's fabulous offense has kind of masked the fact that their defense is decidedly average.

What aren't we sure about?  If that defense is just kind of a product of big-scoring offense letting them fall asleep at the wheel once in a while.  Maybe they can produce a shutdown day if they need to.  Maybe the sorta one-dimensional nature of Case's "Cuda Does Everything" offense will be easier to stop than some of the other attacks they've faced this season.

As noted above, the stakes are reasonably high here for both sides.  It's CWRU's first chance to prove themselves against a name-brand, high-quality opponent.  It's W & J's chance to stay alive in Pool C and firmly establish that it's them + Thomas More, then everyone else playing for third.  I'm excited to see what happens.  All the ingredients are in place for a shootout.  Give me the Spartans in a barnburner.

ExTartanPlayer,

Much thanks for the in depth breakdown.   I'm guessing the x-factor for tomorrow's game will be can CWRU stop Ruffing this year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:55:42 AM
Perhaps the designations ILB and OLB don't map to the right places.  I am sure it is a computerized process.

You have probably hit the nail on the head there. That makes a lot of sense.

However, still surprising to see two different sets of stats.

It's not two different sets of stats.  I think that there are just pieces missing.  Every player who is on the PAC site has the same stats as the CWRU site.  There are some players missing from the PAC stats.  I'm almost certain it is some sort of mapping issue.

There are indeed two different sets of tackle numbers for those players.

PAC site:
4A    Cody Calhoun     6    18    11    29
37    Aaron Weisberg     6    12    15    27
8     Gavin Sandidge     5    13    12    25
92    Dayton Snyder     6    13    12    25
6     Andrew Banathy     6    13    9    22

Case site:
4A   Cody Calhoun   So   SS   6   20   12   32
37   Aaron Weisberg   Sr   ILB   6   13   15   28
8   Gavin Sandidge   Sr   ILB   5   13   12   25
92   Dayton Snyder   Sr   DE   6   13   12   25
6   Andrew Banathy   So   ILB   6   14   10   24
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2015, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 23, 2015, 11:55:42 AM
Perhaps the designations ILB and OLB don't map to the right places.  I am sure it is a computerized process.

You have probably hit the nail on the head there. That makes a lot of sense.

However, still surprising to see two different sets of stats.

It's not two different sets of stats.  I think that there are just pieces missing.  Every player who is on the PAC site has the same stats as the CWRU site.  There are some players missing from the PAC stats.  I'm almost certain it is some sort of mapping issue.

There are indeed two different sets of tackle numbers for those players.

PAC site:
4A    Cody Calhoun     6    18    11    29
37    Aaron Weisberg     6    12    15    27
8     Gavin Sandidge     5    13    12    25
92    Dayton Snyder     6    13    12    25
6     Andrew Banathy     6    13    9    22

Case site:
4A   Cody Calhoun   So   SS   6   20   12   32
37   Aaron Weisberg   Sr   ILB   6   13   15   28
8   Gavin Sandidge   Sr   ILB   5   13   12   25
92   Dayton Snyder   Sr   DE   6   13   12   25
6   Andrew Banathy   So   ILB   6   14   10   24


:)
They count differently in Cleveland...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 23, 2015, 09:23:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2015, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
There are indeed two different sets of tackle numbers for those players.

PAC site:
4A    Cody Calhoun     6    18    11    29
37    Aaron Weisberg     6    12    15    27
8     Gavin Sandidge     5    13    12    25
92    Dayton Snyder     6    13    12    25
6     Andrew Banathy     6    13    9    22

Case site:
4A   Cody Calhoun   So   SS   6   20   12   32
37   Aaron Weisberg   Sr   ILB   6   13   15   28
8   Gavin Sandidge   Sr   ILB   5   13   12   25
92   Dayton Snyder   Sr   DE   6   13   12   25
6   Andrew Banathy   So   ILB   6   14   10   24


:)
They count differently in Cleveland...

Or the PAC doesn't count correctly...

I chose one sample player (Cody Calhoun) and went through the defensive statistics in the box scores on this site for all 6 Case games and added up his tackles.  It came out to 20 solo, 12 ast, 32 total.

EDIT: To see if this was a fluke, I chose a second player (Aaron Weisberg) and went through the same process.  His tackles came out to 13 solo, 15 ast, 28 total, also matching Case's website.  I'm not sure how, but it seems as if the PAC is underreporting Case's tackles.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 11:20:18 PM
Did you count from box scores on the PAC website?

I sent an email to Case's SID earlier this afternoon -- it may be that the PAC has since corrected.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 23, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 11:20:18 PM
Did you count from box scores on the PAC website?

I sent an email to Case's SID earlier this afternoon -- it may be that the PAC has since corrected.

The box scores on the PAC website do add up to the totals shown on the PAC website.  The box scores on D3Football match those on Case's website.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 24, 2015, 12:14:19 AM
I checked the box scores for each school played against Case's box score.  For Calhoun, the discrepancy in tackles is completely in the Saint Vincent game.  Case has him down for 5 solo tackles and 1 assist.  The box score on Saint Vincent's website shows him as having 3 solo tackles and 1 assist.  However, the Saint Vincent website also has the quarterback, Rob Cuda, marked down for 2 solo tackles.  Both Cuda and Calhoun wear #4, so it seems as if Saint Vincent got the two mixed up.  Those starts must be the ones that got submitted to the PAC.

For Weisberg, the discrepancy is in the Bethany game.  But in this case, both Case's website and Bethany's website agree that he had 5 solo tackles and 3 assists, but the PAC website shows 4 tackles and 3 assists.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2015, 12:51:42 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 23, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 11:20:18 PM
Did you count from box scores on the PAC website?

I sent an email to Case's SID earlier this afternoon -- it may be that the PAC has since corrected.

The box scores on the PAC website do add up to the totals shown on the PAC website.  The box scores on D3Football match those on Case's website.

They always will -- it's one file shared across our network.

Case folks said they'd take this up with the conference office. I'm sure it will be fixed and good eagle eye on the St. Vincent game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 24, 2015, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 24, 2015, 12:14:19 AM
I checked the box scores for each school played against Case's box score.  For Calhoun, the discrepancy in tackles is completely in the Saint Vincent game.  Case has him down for 5 solo tackles and 1 assist.  The box score on Saint Vincent's website shows him as having 3 solo tackles and 1 assist.  However, the Saint Vincent website also has the quarterback, Rob Cuda, marked down for 2 solo tackles.  Both Cuda and Calhoun wear #4, so it seems as if Saint Vincent got the two mixed up.  Those starts must be the ones that got submitted to the PAC.

For Weisberg, the discrepancy is in the Bethany game.  But in this case, both Case's website and Bethany's website agree that he had 5 solo tackles and 3 assists, but the PAC website shows 4 tackles and 3 assists.

SVC was a home CWRU game, the first for new ststa crew.. The Calhoun/Cuda confusion was corrected later on CWRU's site, but not update on PAC's. I participated in the process.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 24, 2015, 11:22:52 AM
You guys are good.  At one point they had Aaron with 1 rushing attempt at -2 yards.  I assure you that Aaron hasn't played an offensive down in US since he was 15 years old.  He did play some offense in Italy but that was just for fun (and to avoid running up the score in a friendly game).

They must have a way of fixing mistakes. 

At any rate this is a big game for both CWRU and W&J.  Unfortunately, I will have to miss the second half as I will be performing Mozart's Requiem in Miami this evening (with Master Chorale of South Florida).  I will be able to listen to most of the first half in the car while I drive down. 

Last year the CWRU/W&J game was also a concert week but the game was during the day.

I am hoping for the best for the Spartans.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 24, 2015, 11:27:07 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 23, 2015, 09:23:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2015, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
There are indeed two different sets of tackle numbers for those players.

PAC site:
4A    Cody Calhoun     6    18    11    29
37    Aaron Weisberg     6    12    15    27
8     Gavin Sandidge     5    13    12    25
92    Dayton Snyder     6    13    12    25
6     Andrew Banathy     6    13    9    22

Case site:
4A   Cody Calhoun   So   SS   6   20   12   32
37   Aaron Weisberg   Sr   ILB   6   13   15   28
8   Gavin Sandidge   Sr   ILB   5   13   12   25
92   Dayton Snyder   Sr   DE   6   13   12   25
6   Andrew Banathy   So   ILB   6   14   10   24


:)
They count differently in Cleveland...

Or the PAC doesn't count correctly...

I chose one sample player (Cody Calhoun) and went through the defensive statistics in the box scores on this site for all 6 Case games and added up his tackles.  It came out to 20 solo, 12 ast, 32 total.

EDIT: To see if this was a fluke, I chose a second player (Aaron Weisberg) and went through the same process.  His tackles came out to 13 solo, 15 ast, 28 total, also matching Case's website.  I'm not sure how, but it seems as if the PAC is underreporting Case's tackles.

None of this explains why the Case linebackers are not on the list of tackle leaders on the PAC website.  Whether Aaron has 27 or 28 tackles per game it calculates to 4.5 or 4.67 tackles a game which would put him (and a bunch of the others) within the PAC linebacker leaders in tackles.  But none of them show up.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2015, 01:30:43 PM
I think your explanation there was right on -- that Case breaks them down to ILB and OLB in its roster file and the PAC stats don't pick up on that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2015, 07:28:34 PM
GREAT game so far!!!

14-14 at the half.

COME ON SPARTANS!!!

Let's pull off the upset!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2015, 08:23:19 PM
Enjoyed watching the Tartans notch a 41-13 win today to raise their record to 4-3 and probably secure themselves firmly in 5th place of my unofficial PAC rankings (previously in a toss-up with St. Vincent for that spot).  SVC actually contained Sam Benger relatively well (37 carries for only 113 yards) but the CMU passing attack was on the money today.  Even when starting QB Andrew Hearon had to leave the game after an injury scare (he would return), sophomore backup Bryan Jangro came in and kept the offense humming, and Jangro later threw a TD pass in the 4th quarter to punctuate the victory.  The SVC secondary did not match up well against taller, more physical CMU wide receivers.  Offensively, the St. Vincent starting QB was a very impressive runner but could not get anything going in the air; surprisingly, CMU's defense shut out the Bearcats until they replaced him with the backup QB, who was able to get a little bit of a passing game going and score a few TD's (although he also threw a couple of INT's).  I'm very happy with this performance from the Tartans; SVC is not a top-tier opponent, but they're pretty firmly in the middle class of the PAC and CMU handled them easily today.  As long as they take care of business next week at Thiel, the Tartans will reach 5-3 and be playing with some house money entering the final two games with Chicago and Case Western.  As a UAA alum I can't help but feel some pride at seeing how well the four football-playing schools are doing this year.  WashU is 5-2, 4-2 in the SAA; Chicago is also 5-2, 4-2 in the SAA; CMU is 4-3, 4-2 in the PAC; and CWRU is 5-1, 5-0 in the PAC and battling with W & J.  Nobody is a world-beater but that is four solid, respectable teams who are all at least in the upper half of the new conferences.

Following the CWRU-W & J game online right now.  Whale of a game, pretty much as expected.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2015, 08:57:11 PM
Welp.  Heck of a game there.  Sets up a CWRU-Thomas More showdown for the title, and eliminates W & J from the playoff picture.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 24, 2015, 09:04:46 PM
Watched the W&J - CWRU game. Obviously disappointed
but CWRU clearly deserved to win. Cruda is the real deal and W&J was not able to shut him down, or get their offense moving consistently.

Good luck to CWRU the rest of the way.

Jeff in Tennessee

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2015, 09:07:27 PM
Biggest win for Case in years.  Cuda is DA MAN!!!

We definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2015, 08:57:11 PM
Welp.  Heck of a game there.  Sets up a CWRU-Thomas More showdown for the title, and eliminates W & J from the playoff picture.

It's ON, baby!!  There's a crew of alums heading to Cleveland in 12 days.. I'm booking my flight on Monday for it. 

I'm really glad Thomas More is playing Case this season and respect the Spartans.  TM will be ready, though. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2015, 10:41:50 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2015, 09:07:27 PM
Biggest win for Case in years.  Cuda is DA MAN!!!

We definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25.

I have been on the Case bandwagon since about week 4, but please note that the W & J win is the first real sign of their legitimacy against good teams....and also then please note that W & J is a long time removed from its relevance as a national powerhouse; last year's playoff win against Wittenberg was their first playoff win in seven years and they promptly lost 67-0 to Mount the next week. 

Case will get some votes, but I would stop well short of "definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25" - and please do not give me the "we're 6-1 and just beat the 15th-ranked team in the nation" line that I can already see forming in your mind.  W & J at 15 last week was an extremely puzzling ranking, coming off a good-but-not-great season last year in which they lost a PAC game and got blown out really, really badly in the playoffs (big difference between a 34-20 loss where you trade scores for awhile vs. 67-0) and carrying an 18-point loss to a team ranked only four spots ahead of them.  There just wasn't much basis for W & J being that high (ranked, yes, but not all the way up at #15). 

Case will not just rocket up to that spot because they beat W & J.  Besides the top 25 teams, another 20 teams were in the "also receiving votes" category last week (so 45 teams received at least one vote for the poll).  Case was not among them.  They will join that group this week, but eight weeks into the season a team isn't going to go from "zero votes" to "ranked" (leapfrogging 20 teams or more) with one result.  It's a very good result, but not enough for that kind of leap.  CWRU is helped by the fact that a number of teams near the bottom of the top 25 and in the ORV group lost, but that would still be an enormous leap, and one that even I am not sure would be justified.

Regardless of what happens in the rankings, Case's postseason chances will hang on their result vs. Thomas More.  They would be a very, very, very long shot for a Pool C bid at 8-2 with a h2h loss to Chicago, who could also be on the list of candidates for last few spots in the South RR's.  So I would probably not worry about whether they're in this week's Top 25.  It has no bearing on their playoff chances.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2015, 10:56:02 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2015, 10:41:50 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2015, 09:07:27 PM
Biggest win for Case in years.  Cuda is DA MAN!!!

We definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25.

I have been on the Case bandwagon since about week 4, but please note that the W & J win is the first real sign of their legitimacy against good teams....and also then please note that W & J is a long time removed from its relevance as a national powerhouse; last year's playoff win against Wittenberg was their first playoff win in seven years and they promptly lost 67-0 to Mount the next week. 

Case will get some votes, but I would stop well short of "definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25" - and please do not give me the "we're 6-1 and just beat the 15th-ranked team in the nation" line that I can already see forming in your mind.  W & J at 15 last week was an extremely puzzling ranking, coming off a good-but-not-great season last year in which they lost a PAC game and got blown out really, really badly in the playoffs (big difference between a 34-20 loss where you trade scores for awhile vs. 67-0) and carrying an 18-point loss to a team ranked only four spots ahead of them.  There just wasn't much basis for W & J being that high (ranked, yes, but not all the way up at #15). 

Case will not just rocket up to that spot because they beat W & J.  Besides the top 25 teams, another 20 teams were in the "also receiving votes" category last week (so 45 teams received at least one vote for the poll).  Case was not among them.  They will join that group this week, but eight weeks into the season a team isn't going to go from "zero votes" to "ranked" (leapfrogging 20 teams or more) with one result.  It's a very good result, but not enough for that kind of leap.  CWRU is helped by the fact that a number of teams near the bottom of the top 25 and in the ORV group lost, but that would still be an enormous leap, and one that even I am not sure would be justified.

Regardless of what happens in the rankings, Case's postseason chances will hang on their result vs. Thomas More.  They would be a very, very, very long shot for a Pool C bid at 8-2 with a h2h loss to Chicago, who could also be on the list of candidates for last few spots in the South RR's.  So I would probably not worry about whether they're in this week's Top 25.  It has no bearing on their playoff chances.

Very well said, ExTP.  Agree with a lot you said - I'm sure they'll get votes.  I'm wondering how much home field was worth tonight for Sparty.. valid because of the one score win.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2015, 12:16:50 AM
W&J has been highly over-rated for some time.
The offense, while exciting at times, is incapable of maintaining possessions against quality pressure defenses.
In addition, by design, the offense puts their own defense in an almost indefensible position.
For instance, tonight, following CWRU's 12-play TD drive that tied the game at 21, the W&J offense managed 1 minute of possession before forcing the defense right back out.  The defense gets a stop and a special teams breakdown put them right back out.

And tonight's situation isn't unique to this game or this season.  It IS the prevailing philosophy of the program:
SPRINT SPRINT SPRINT, even if part of your team, an important part, MUST get a break of more than 45-60 seconds.

Another example:  in ETF's oft-posted MU's whacking of W&J in last year's second round:
Following one quarter, W&J trailed the nation's best offense AND best defense 7-0, certainly still in the ball game.
In the second period, W&J had four possessions (complete possessions ending with punts) that totaled less than 5 minutes.
If this program thinks it can SPRINT SPRINT SPRINT with the D3 measuring stick, I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about.

W&J's at a philosophical cross-roads:  from a program standpoint, is it good enough to whack the repetitive doormats of the PAC, knock off most challengers and win several PAC titles every five years, then get shown the exit door early on in the D3 tournament.  If that's enough, if that's programmatically acceptable, so be it.

If it's not the level to which Pres. Haring-Smith, AD McGuinness and HC Sirrianni aspire, some hard facts have to be faced.
And from MY seat, the OFFENSIVE APPROACH has to be looked at first.

Congrats to CWRU and thanks for the great hospitality.  I look forward to working there again down the road.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 25, 2015, 10:07:27 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2015, 10:41:50 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2015, 09:07:27 PM
Biggest win for Case in years.  Cuda is DA MAN!!!

We definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25.

I have been on the Case bandwagon since about week 4, but please note that the W & J win is the first real sign of their legitimacy against good teams....and also then please note that W & J is a long time removed from its relevance as a national powerhouse; last year's playoff win against Wittenberg was their first playoff win in seven years and they promptly lost 67-0 to Mount the next week. 

Case will get some votes, but I would stop well short of "definitely deserve to be in next week's top 25" - and please do not give me the "we're 6-1 and just beat the 15th-ranked team in the nation" line that I can already see forming in your mind.  W & J at 15 last week was an extremely puzzling ranking, coming off a good-but-not-great season last year in which they lost a PAC game and got blown out really, really badly in the playoffs (big difference between a 34-20 loss where you trade scores for awhile vs. 67-0) and carrying an 18-point loss to a team ranked only four spots ahead of them.  There just wasn't much basis for W & J being that high (ranked, yes, but not all the way up at #15). 

Case will not just rocket up to that spot because they beat W & J.  Besides the top 25 teams, another 20 teams were in the "also receiving votes" category last week (so 45 teams received at least one vote for the poll).  Case was not among them.  They will join that group this week, but eight weeks into the season a team isn't going to go from "zero votes" to "ranked" (leapfrogging 20 teams or more) with one result.  It's a very good result, but not enough for that kind of leap.  CWRU is helped by the fact that a number of teams near the bottom of the top 25 and in the ORV group lost, but that would still be an enormous leap, and one that even I am not sure would be justified.

Regardless of what happens in the rankings, Case's postseason chances will hang on their result vs. Thomas More.  They would be a very, very, very long shot for a Pool C bid at 8-2 with a h2h loss to Chicago, who could also be on the list of candidates for last few spots in the South RR's.  So I would probably not worry about whether they're in this week's Top 25.  It has no bearing on their playoff chances.

You recently wrote:

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 11, 2015, 04:11:23 PM
TMC and W & J are clearly a step ahead of the pack.

Case beat W&J and all of a sudden W&J is not that good?  You can't have it both ways.

I saw most of the game last night.  I had to put my phone down and go on stage at the end of the 3rd quarter.  I was impressed with both teams and it was the most entertaining a game I recall in recent years.

I think we learned some of what you addressed in your post 3581 and the Case defense is a solid unit.  They held the mighty Presidents to 105 yards rushing and 17 points below their previous scoring average. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 25, 2015, 12:46:29 PM
The league has sorted itself out pretty nicely here.  Pretty distinct hierarchy that can be set up without violating almost any H2H results.  Please note that there's some weirdness in the official league standings because a few games between PAC teams are technically "non league" games (so Westminster only has one PAC loss despite having losses against TMC and W & J).  I am going to rank the teams by how good they actually are, not where they will finish in the standings.

1. Thomas More (8-0, 6-0)
2. Case Western (6-1, 6-0)

Well, how about this.  CWRU pulled it off and gives themselves a puncher's chance to play for the league title.  TMC will be a heavy favorite (much easier time against W & J than the Spartans did) but we're all set up for a league title game in two weeks.

------------------------------------------------

3. W & J (5-2, 3-2): lost to TMC and CWRU, beat Westminster.  Playing for pride the rest of the season.

4. Westminster (5-2, 4-1): has a real chance to finish 8-2, which would be their best record since 2000.  Losses against TMC and W & J, win over CMU.  Still yet to play St. Vincent but after what I saw yesterday that should be no problem.

5. Carnegie Mellon (4-3, 4-2): lopsided win yesterday against St. Vincent was their best performance of the season.  A win over Thiel next week would secure a .500 season with two tough games remaining against Chicago and Case.  Has already beaten SVC, Bethany, Geneva so whatever their official league record ends up, they belong here in the league rankings.  CMU occupies an interesting space in these rankings - they're sort of the demarcation line between the top four teams (after all, they lost be double digits to W & J and Westminster) and the rest of the league (blowout wins over St. Vincent, Bethany, and Geneva), really underscoring how the league lacks a strong middle class.  You're either really good and competing for the title in the top 4...or you're so far behind the curve you lose by 21+ to the fifth-best team in the league (Carnegie Mellon).  Not much of an in-between there.

------------------------------------------------

6. St. Vincent (3-4, 2-3): laid an egg at CMU after a strong effort against Thomas More the previous week.  Has beaten the bottom three teams in these rankings with games to play against 7, 8, and 9.  We'll find out how these guys sort out.

7. Bethany (3-5, 2-4): beat Geneva and Waynesburg, belongs here, could still move ahead of SVC depending on the result of their game.

8. Geneva (2-5, 1-4): didn't exactly distinguish themselves against Bethany.

9. Waynesburg (3-5, 2-4): only wins have come against the bottom dwellers and have lost to both Bethany and Geneva.  Yuck.

-------------------------------------------------

10. Grove City (0-7, 0-5)

11. Thiel (1-6, 0-5)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 25, 2015, 01:00:58 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 25, 2015, 10:07:27 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 11, 2015, 04:11:23 PM
TMC and W & J are clearly a step ahead of the pack.

Case beat W&J and all of a sudden W&J is not that good?  You can't have it both ways.

SpartanMom, I think you're reading one thing I said, and seeing it as another.  That first quote you pulled about TMC and W & J being a "step ahead of the pack" referred to their standing in the PAC.  There is a big difference between being a step ahead of the PAC pack and being ranked 15th in the nation.  The PAC is a mediocre league on the national stage (look at my rankings above; there are three really good teams, one and a half OK teams, and then an awful mess after Carnegie Mellon), and it was probably a bridge too far to think this league had two of the top 15 Division III teams in the country, especially when the second of those had a leaky defense that had been giving big yards and points up to almost every team they played.  If I had bothered to comment on W & J's national ranking before now, which I didn't, I would have said the same thing.  The game against Case isn't what changed my mind about that.  I'd been skeptical of W & J's defense for weeks, and said that several different places on these boards.

I'm not discrediting Case or the big win they just notched.  Hell, I spent a lot of my time writing a preview of the game because I was really excited about it, I picked Case to win, and they won.  But I am generally trying to keep it in the proper national context.  When one of the overzealous folks here takes Case winning a big game to "We're definitely going to be in the top 25 now!" a little reason is called for.

Some version of this happens almost every season.  Team X gets pretty good, Team X fans think their team is pretty hot stuff and can't understand why Team X gets no love from the top 25 voters because they're 6-1 and on a roll; surely they must be a top 25 team!  It takes a couple years following the national D3 picture to really grasp this.  There are a very large number of teams in Division III (relative to FBS) and being in the top 25 isn't easy to do.  Being the second best team in a league with a minimal national pedigree and no recent playoff success doesn't automatically qualify you as a top 25 team...yet.  And really, this is all academic; Case's playoff hopes depend on their game against Thomas More.  Full stop.  They win that game, make plans to be free for the first week of the playoffs.  They lose, it's been a helluva run and they can come visit Pittsburgh for what hopefully can be a fun Academic Bowl.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2015, 03:40:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2015, 12:16:50 AM
W&J has been highly over-rated for some time.
The offense, while exciting at times, is incapable of maintaining possessions against quality pressure defenses.
In addition, by design, the offense puts the defense in an almost indefensible position.
For instance, tonight, following CWRU's 12-play TD drive that tied the game at 21, the W&J offense managed 1 minute of possession before forcing the defense right back out.  The defense gets a stop and a special teams breakdown put them right back out.

And tonight's situation isn't unique to this game or this season.  It IS the prevailing philosophy of the program.
SPRINT SPRINT SPRINT, even if part of your team, an important part, MUST get a break of more than 45-60 seconds.

Another example:  in ETF's oft-posted MU's whacking of W&J in last year's second round:
Following one quarter, W&J trailed the nation's best offense AND best defense 7-0, certainly in the ball game.
In the second period, W&J had four possessions (complete possessions ending with punts) that total less than 5 minutes.
If this program thinks it can SPRINT SPRINT SPRINT with the D3 measuring stick, I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about.

W&J's at a philosophical cross-roads:  from a program standpoint, is it good enough to whack the repetitive doormats of the PAC, knock off most challengers and win several PAC titles every five years, then get shown the exit door early on in the D3 tournament.  If that's enough, it that's programmatically acceptable, so be it.

If it's not the level to which Pres. Haring-Smith, AD McGuinness and HC Sirrianni aspire, some hard facts have to be faced.
And from MY seat, the OFFENSIVE APPROACH has to be looked at first.

Congrats to CWRU and thanks for the great hospitality.  I look forward to working there again down the road.
Wow!  What an assessment!

Thank you.  +1!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 25, 2015, 08:40:28 PM
XTP, I agreed with your assessment about Case likely not vaulting into the Top 25, so I was pretty surprised to see they did in fact go from "absolute zero" (not even ORV) to being ranked 23rd.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 25, 2015, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 25, 2015, 08:40:28 PM
XTP, I agreed with your assessment about Case likely not vaulting into the Top 25, so I was pretty surprised to see they did in fact go from "absolute zero" (not even ORV) to being ranked 23rd.

Ha, I just came here to post this.  I'm a little surprised, too.  Don't get me wrong - I would love to see Case validate this ranking - but I was not sure they would appear in the rankings just yet.  If I was a top 25 voter, I would have put them onto my personal "watch list" of teams just outside the poll that I was keeping an eye on.  I do have them on my South Region Fan Poll ballot and have moved them up a few slots from last week.

On to WashU.  Kind of an odd situation here - CWRU's playoff hopes are now entirely dependent on the Thomas More game, and coming off the biggest win in the last five years, will they be able to bring it against the Bears this week?  WashU is no slouch this year.  Interested to see if CWRU can come down off the high of this win, re-focus, and bring a good effort against WashU knowing that the PAC-title game is one more week away.  It's a really neat finishing slate for Case.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 25, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
As I said, we deserve to be in the Top 25, AND WE ARE!!!

I mean, I kinda hate to say "I told ya so," but let's be frank.

I really did tell ya so!!!

;)

:P

GO SPARTANS!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2015, 10:35:19 PM
more importantly, I hope CWRU is in the South Regional Rankings.. Not sure that W&J will be. 

They may be close since it was a one score game on the victor's home field. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2015, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 25, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
As I said, we deserve to be in the Top 25, AND WE ARE!!!

I mean, I kinda hate to say "I told ya so," but let's be frank.

I really did tell ya so!!!

;)

:P

GO SPARTANS!!!

"Deserve" is a really strong word for it.  The W&J result happened to be the same week as some big changes at the bottom of the poll.  I'm pulling for Sparty this weekend, there are some Thomas More haters still out there and I'm glad they get third shot at a ranked team in 2015. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 25, 2015, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2015, 10:35:19 PM
more importantly, I hope CWRU is in the South Regional Rankings.. Not sure that W&J will be. 

They may be close since it was a one score game on the victor's home field.

Been trying to figure this out myself.  There are only about five real clear slam-dunk picks in the South RR's (UMHB, TMC, JHU, HSU, and W & L).  Past that there are a lot of 1-loss and 2-loss teams that are tough to distinguish - Texas Lutheran, Berry, Hendrix, Chicago, Maryville, Huntingdon, Hampden-Sydney, Guilford; any of them could take some of those last few spots but none are obvious picks.  I think CWRU should be in the RR's next week, maybe even as high as #6 or 7, but whether they stay there will be dictated by their performance against TMC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2015, 01:04:11 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 25, 2015, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2015, 10:35:19 PM
more importantly, I hope CWRU is in the South Regional Rankings.. Not sure that W&J will be. 

They may be close since it was a one score game on the victor's home field.

Been trying to figure this out myself.  There are only about five real clear slam-dunk picks in the South RR's (UMHB, TMC, JHU, HSU, and W & L).  Past that there are a lot of 1-loss and 2-loss teams that are tough to distinguish - Texas Lutheran, Berry, Hendrix, Chicago, Maryville, Huntingdon, Hampden-Sydney, Guilford; any of them could take some of those last few spots but none are obvious picks.  I think CWRU should be in the RR's next week, maybe even as high as #6 or 7, but whether they stay there will be dictated by their performance against TMC.

I don't know how much wins against W&J will be valued at this point.  They surely will value the TM win over the Presidents more than they would CWRU's, even though they are both Home wins. 

And let me be the one to argue JHU should be moved into the Wesley or Mount Union brackets.  You know, for proximity purposes only :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 26, 2015, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2015, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 25, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
As I said, we deserve to be in the Top 25, AND WE ARE!!!

I mean, I kinda hate to say "I told ya so," but let's be frank.

I really did tell ya so!!!

;)

:P

GO SPARTANS!!!

"Deserve" is a really strong word for it.  The W&J result happened to be the same week as some big changes at the bottom of the poll.  I'm pulling for Sparty this weekend, there are some Thomas More haters still out there and I'm glad they get third shot at a ranked team in 2015.

If you look at the new teams at the bottom of the rankings you will see that only Case and Delaware Valley actually beat a ranked team to get into the rankings.  I would say they deserve it as much as any other team with a good record that beats a ranked opponent.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on October 26, 2015, 11:19:13 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 26, 2015, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2015, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 25, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
As I said, we deserve to be in the Top 25, AND WE ARE!!!

I mean, I kinda hate to say "I told ya so," but let's be frank.

I really did tell ya so!!!

;)

:P

GO SPARTANS!!!

"Deserve" is a really strong word for it.  The W&J result happened to be the same week as some big changes at the bottom of the poll.  I'm pulling for Sparty this weekend, there are some Thomas More haters still out there and I'm glad they get third shot at a ranked team in 2015.

If you look at the new teams at the bottom of the rankings you will see that only Case and Delaware Valley actually beat a ranked team to get into the rankings.  I would say they deserve it as much as any other team with a good record that beats a ranked opponent.

W&L beat a ranked team earlier in the year (Guilford) and despite being undefeated didn't get in until the most recent poll. Polls are funny that way. Just beating a ranked team doesn't mean you take their place, though it certainly helps put you on the radar. Great win for Case. Brutal couple weeks with Wash U and TMC upcoming.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 26, 2015, 11:41:55 AM
To me the Chicago h2h doesn't really favor them. Chicago won by a missed PATand stats were comparable.  Chicago was at home and even if you only see homefield as worth one point-- it's a tie.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 26, 2015, 11:52:00 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 26, 2015, 11:41:55 AM
To me the Chicago h2h doesn't really favor them. Chicago won by a missed PATand stats were comparable.  Chicago was at home and even if you only see homefield as worth one point-- it's a tie.

For clarification, who is "them"?  Are you saying the Chicago h2h win over CWRU doesn't favor Chicago? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 26, 2015, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 26, 2015, 11:19:13 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 26, 2015, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2015, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 25, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
As I said, we deserve to be in the Top 25, AND WE ARE!!!

I mean, I kinda hate to say "I told ya so," but let's be frank.

I really did tell ya so!!!

;)

:P

GO SPARTANS!!!

"Deserve" is a really strong word for it.  The W&J result happened to be the same week as some big changes at the bottom of the poll.  I'm pulling for Sparty this weekend, there are some Thomas More haters still out there and I'm glad they get third shot at a ranked team in 2015.

If you look at the new teams at the bottom of the rankings you will see that only Case and Delaware Valley actually beat a ranked team to get into the rankings.  I would say they deserve it as much as any other team with a good record that beats a ranked opponent.

W&L beat a ranked team earlier in the year (Guilford) and despite being undefeated didn't get in until the most recent poll. Polls are funny that way. Just beating a ranked team doesn't mean you take their place, though it certainly helps put you on the radar. Great win for Case. Brutal couple weeks with Wash U and TMC upcoming.

Well W&L deserved to be ranked also.  One thing that is bad about the D3 ranking system is that there seem to be teams that are ranked in the current year based on the strength of either their conference or of their past teams. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 26, 2015, 12:20:38 PM
What my post makes clear is that I don't think it favors either.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on October 26, 2015, 12:45:54 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 25, 2015, 10:49:48 PM
Been trying to figure this out myself.  There are only about five real clear slam-dunk picks in the South RR's (UMHB, TMC, JHU, HSU, and W & L).  Past that there are a lot of 1-loss and 2-loss teams that are tough to distinguish - Texas Lutheran, Berry, Hendrix, Chicago, Maryville, Huntingdon, Hampden-Sydney, Guilford; any of them could take some of those last few spots but none are obvious picks.  I think CWRU should be in the RR's next week, maybe even as high as #6 or 7, but whether they stay there will be dictated by their performance against TMC.

This is the big question. If it's me I'm going with the teams in bold for regional rankings based on the criteria. Not based on who I have in my SRFP or who I think the best teams are. The RRO numbers assume I'm right. Lets go with where we are right now. First the easy part, as winning still counts.

UMHB SOS of 183. 0-0 RRO. (maybe TLU) I don't care about SOS, common sense has to play some role.
JHU   SOS of 35 right now. 1-0 RRO (beat Moravian)
H-SU SOS of 101 right now. 0-0 RRO (maybe TLU)
W&L SOS of 119 right now. 0-0 RRO (maybe Guilford, H-SC)
TMC  SOS of 167 right now. 0-0 RRO (Maybe W&J)


TMC just can't trump the others on their currently bad SOS and, the way I figure it, 0-0 RRO. Again, per the criteria, not my thoughts on where they actually belong.


6-1
Maryville SOS 131 RRO 1-0 (Beat Berry, lost to NCWC)
Berry SOS 11 RRO 2-1 (lost to M'Ville, beat Chicago and Hendrix)
Moravian SOS 102 (lost to JHU) 0-1 RRO

CWRU SOS 138 RRO 0-1 (lost to Chicago, beat W&J)
Guilford SOS 174 RRO 0-1 (lost to W&L)
Trinity SOS 202 RRO 0-1 (lost to H-SU)
Huntingdon SOS 205 (lost to B-SC)

Berry gets the obvious nod for SOS and RRO. They might even jump TMC/W&L in the rankings, but I hesitate to do that right now. Why Chicago and Hendrix for RRO? See below. Maryville jumps Moravian on the RRO win and not much difference in SOS. Then Maryville has to jump Berry on the H2H. Moravian gets the nod for the top half SOS and they have a result versus an RRO, even if it's not a win. CWRU can't jump M'Ville/Moravian if W&J doesn't get ranked. SOS and RRO is not in their favor. Guilford has a putrid SOS and I'm drawing the line. They aren't even close to the top half of the division for SOS, yet, so they fail the eye test despite the RRO as does everyone after them with no SOS or RRO.


5-2
Hendrix SOS 20 RRO 1-1 (lost to Berry, Austin. Beat Chicago)
Chicago SOS 13 RRO 1-2 (lost to Berry, Hendrix. Beat CWRU)
H-SC SOS 46 RRO 0-2 (lost to Wabash, W&L)
Washington and Jefferson SOS 61 RRO 0-2 (lost to TMC, CWRU)
TLU SOS 76 RRO 0-2 (lost H-SU, UMHB)

Why do the 5-2 teams jump the remaining 6-1 teams? Because the SOS is a gimme and if that is true, then they both have RRO results and wins. That is too important to pass up. I'll take winning percentage to a point, but their SOS is so high in the division, with the results, it's hard to pass them up per the criteria. In fact I think they could both jump Moravian in the rankings. Why does Hendrix jump Chicago? H2H. So why not H-SC over Moravian as well? Because I've got to draw the line somewhere and they have no wins versus an RRO, just a pair of losses. Losing 2 RRO games is, in theory per the criteria, better than losing 1 RRO game, but I'm not willing to let that jump winning percentage without an SOS inside the 32 team tournament size.

Now obviously if I'm wrong on who is ranked, then the RROs change and therefore the rankings change. But using a combination of SOS and RROs this is who I think the committee will go with right now. Not necessarily the best teams, but the criteria. And not factoring in a single thing that could happen in the future.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 26, 2015, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 26, 2015, 12:20:38 PM
What my post makes clear is that I don't think it favors either.

It definitely does favor Chicago.  The head to head result is the purest piece of criteria we have.  Chicago's second loss might (and I do mean might, not does) let CWRU off the hook here with respect to that loss to Chicago, but I think any second loss by CWRU absolutely puts them behind Chicago (if Chicago holds serve) mostly because of that head to head result.  We don't get to take away imaginary points based on where the game was played.  Pollsters can do that sort of creative math, but I think in the regional rankings the results stand as is.

What's more is that that loss to Chicago creates some common opponent problems for CWRU, specifically with Berry and Hendrix.  The dominoes there really hurt CWRU as far as regional rankings go...IF CWRU picks up a second loss.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 26, 2015, 01:22:40 PM
Case Western Reserve's remaining schedule is no slouch.

Washington University 5-2 (H)
Thomas More 7-0 (H)
Carnegie Mellon 4-3 (A) -- rivalry game "Academic Bowl"

1) It's imperative the Spartans continue their momentum going against Wash U of St. Louis, who comes into Cleveland with a Top 10 passing offense in the nation http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3 .  CWRU gets no break to look ahead to the following week.  I'm actually thinking Wash U will defeat U Chicago this year.

2) What everyone is talking about -- the looming TM vs CWRU match up in Cleveland.

3) And finally, the rivalry game against CM is away at Pittsburgh this year. 

Each game brings it's own set of challenges.  There's no cruise control.  CWRU needs to continue to play like a Top 25 team for the remainder of the season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 26, 2015, 01:32:56 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 26, 2015, 01:22:40 PM
Case Western Reserve's remaining schedule is no slouch.

Washington University 5-2 (H)
Thomas More 7-0 (H)
Carnegie Mellon 4-3 (A) -- rivalry game "Academic Bowl"

Agreed.  It's an interesting closing slate here.  One thing that is a little fascinating about this - it's three competitive opponents, but the only game that will determine their playoff fate (are they in our out?) is the Thomas More game.  Regardless of what happens against WashU, if they  beat TMC, they could actually lose to Carnegie Mellon the following week and still win the league (1-loss and h2h tiebreaker over TMC).

With that said, two more things:

1) Beating Thomas More would get them into the playoffs, but a loss in either of the UAA games would be crippling from a seeding standpoint.  9-1 Case has at least a chance to host a first-round game.  8-2 Case with losses to Chicago and WashU/CMU is getting sent somewhere nasty.  So even though Thomas More is the only game that affects their in/out status, the others very much do matter if they want to win a playoff game.

2) Throwing that stuff out...I think it's important to play all three like they're playoff games.  The current staff and players probably still are invested enough in the UAA matchups (and the CMU, CWRU, and WashU head men are all still the same guys as when I played...and in some cases long before that) to feel like those are big games, playoff picture or not.

Anyways, this is going to be fun.  Several really good matchups on deck.  I'm also looking forward to the Tartans' closing slate...as long as they stay focused they will beat Thiel to reach 5-3, and then they'll have tough games with Chicago and CWRU to try and secure their first winning season since 2012, and maybe even an ECAC game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 26, 2015, 02:22:11 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2015, 12:16:50 AM

W&J's at a philosophical cross-roads:  from a program standpoint, is it good enough to whack the repetitive doormats of the PAC, knock off most challengers and win several PAC titles every five years, then get shown the exit door early on in the D3 tournament.  If that's enough, if that's programmatically acceptable, so be it.

If it's not the level to which Pres. Haring-Smith, AD McGuinness and HC Sirrianni aspire, some hard facts have to be faced.
And from MY seat, the OFFENSIVE APPROACH has to be looked at first.
Bob,

It's good to see you posting here again. I always appreciate your comments. You've been around W&J football for a long time and much closer than I, but this is my perspective and only that.

I've been an active alum since graduation, and served the College in several volunteer capacities over the years, including the John Luckhardt era (1982-1998) which represent the highlight of W&J football since the 1920s. Why was W&J able to achieve such success? In addition to John's obvious talents I think he had a couple of things going for him. First, he had strong support from alumni, including college trustees. Second, when the AD retired in 1987 John became AD in addition to FB coach giving him control of the department budget. Third, he was able to work collaboratively with the admissions and financial aid people. Fourth, the President pretty much let John run his show. I'm not suggesting that anything John did was inappropriate, just that he was a very charismatic persuasive person who drew people to him and was both very successful and highly regarded by the college community.

Then came 1998. The president retired and a new president was appointed. He had his own agenda and before long most of the senior administrators had been replaced (e.g: AD, Admissions, Financial Aid) and John was at Cal of PA. John Banazak became coach until the President fired him. Mike Sirianni was appointed head coach in 2003 and W&J was ranked in the final D3 poll from 2003-2008. Since then they have been ranked once in the final poll (last year).

So, what does it take to sustain the kind of performance W&J had under John? According to the D3 final polls since 2003 there have been four teams that stand above the pack - Mount Union, UW-W, Linfield, and Mary Hardin Baylor.

Let's look at Mount Union - which has been in the final top four each of the past 12 years  .Larry Kehres has been AD since 1985 and was Head Coach for 27 years. His son is current head coach. I went to the MU/W&J game last year and was very impressed with the facilities and fan support they have (of course, there isn't much else to do in  Alliance). According to their web site they have 18 coaches. They have the infrastructure in place and athletes that are certainly faster and more athletic than most. They have 21 varsity sports and 2,000 students. Of course, it all boils down to recruiting and coaching, and Larry Kehres proved he could do both with the best of them over an extended time. We'll see if it passes on to the next generation.

Let's look at MHB which has been in the final top four 5 years. Their coach has been in place since MHB started football in 1988. Four years later they were in the DIII playoffs. They list 17 coaches on their web site. The coach's son is his offensive co-coordinator. The AD has been on the athletic staff for over 15 years. They have 12 varsity sports and 2,800 students.

Now let's look at W&J. Bill Duckett retired lat year after 8 years as AD and over 30 years at W&J. Mike has been head coach since 2003 after serving as OC. They list 10 coaches on their web site. The football facilities are first rate. There are 1,400 students ant 24 varsity sports with roughly 40% of the student body playing a varsity sport (call it 30%+ excluding football). There is a capital campaign underway which is targeting adding to endowment and capital improvements, particularly to athletic facilities (mostly non-football). 

Mike seems to be an effective recruiter. I take your observation about his coaching strategy since you've seen them play much more than I have and I don't pretend to be a football "expert" by any means. Might be interesting to hear what XTP has to say.

I know Mike is committed to bringing a national championship to W&J and perhaps the stars will align one year and it will happen. But I think they want to spend their money across the board to make more sports competitive since that is where the interests of so many students (and potential students) lie.

Jeff in Tennessee

Edit: Fixed quote formatting/pc
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GillCJ1 on October 26, 2015, 02:55:02 PM
WashJeff68 - Just wanted to make a quick correction.  UMHB started football in 1998, not 1988 (and yes, Pete Fredenburg has been the only head coach in program history).  I'm thinking this was merely a typo on your part, but just wanted to get that out there.

Very interesting background info on W&J.  I always enjoy learning about other programs.  Good luck to the Presidents going forward.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 26, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
Just started listening to ATN and spit out my coffee at the mention of breaking down the tackle total of the Case Western linebackers.  Well done, Pat.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 26, 2015, 06:34:34 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 26, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
Just started listening to ATN and spit out my coffee at the mention of breaking down the tackle total of the Case Western linebackers.  Well done, Pat.

Definitely laughed out loud at the office today when I heard that. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2015, 06:44:10 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 26, 2015, 06:34:34 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 26, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
Just started listening to ATN and spit out my coffee at the mention of breaking down the tackle total of the Case Western linebackers.  Well done, Pat.

Definitely laughed out loud at the office today when I heard that.

Thirded (is that a word?) - I was on a flight when I laughed out loud about it.  I'm sure the Air Marshall was wondering what my deal was.  Side note:  I really have to stop or try to stop LOL'ing on planes.  I did it last week also. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 26, 2015, 02:22:11 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2015, 12:16:50 AM

W&J's at a philosophical cross-roads:  from a program standpoint, is it good enough to whack the repetitive doormats of the PAC, knock off most challengers and win several PAC titles every five years, then get shown the exit door early on in the D3 tournament.  If that's enough, if that's programmatically acceptable, so be it.

If it's not the level to which Pres. Haring-Smith, AD McGuinness and HC Sirrianni aspire, some hard facts have to be faced.
And from MY seat, the OFFENSIVE APPROACH has to be looked at first.
Bob,

It's good to see you posting here again. I always appreciate your comments. You've been around W&J football for a long time and much closer than I, but this is my perspective and only that.

I've been an active alum since graduation, and served the College in several volunteer capacities over the years, including the John Luckhardt era (1982-1998) which represent the highlight of W&J football since the 1920s. Why was W&J able to achieve such success? In addition to John's obvious talents I think he had a couple of things going for him. First, he had strong support from alumni, including college trustees. Second, when the AD retired in 1987 John became AD in addition to FB coach giving him control of the department budget. Third, he was able to work collaboratively with the admissions and financial aid people. Fourth, the President pretty much let John run his show. I'm not suggesting that anything John did was inappropriate, just that he was a very charismatic persuasive person who drew people to him and was both very successful and highly regarded by the college community.

Then came 1998. The president retired and a new president was appointed. He had his own agenda and before long most of the senior administrators had been replaced (e.g: AD, Admissions, Financial Aid) and John was at Cal of PA. John Banazak became coach until the President fired him. Mike Sirianni was appointed head coach in 2003 and W&J was ranked in the final D3 poll from 2003-2008. Since then they have been ranked once in the final poll (last year).

So, what does it take to sustain the kind of performance W&J had under John? According to the D3 final polls since 2003 there have been four teams that stand above the pack - Mount Union, UW-W, Linfield, and Mary Hardin Baylor.

Let's look at Mount Union - which has been in the final top four each of the past 12 years  .Larry Kehres has been AD since 1985 and was Head Coach for 27 years. His son is current head coach. I went to the MU/W&J game last year and was very impressed with the facilities and fan support they have (of course, there isn't much else to do in  Alliance). According to their web site they have 18 coaches. They have the infrastructure in place and athletes that are certainly faster and more athletic than most. They have 21 varsity sports and 2,000 students. Of course, it all boils down to recruiting and coaching, and Larry Kehres proved he could do both with the best of them over an extended time. We'll see if it passes on to the next generation.

Let's look at MHB which has been in the final top four 5 years. Their coach has been in place since MHB started football in 1988. Four years later they were in the DIII playoffs. They list 17 coaches on their web site. The coach's son is his offensive co-coordinator. The AD has been on the athletic staff for over 15 years. They have 12 varsity sports and 2,800 students.

Now let's look at W&J. Bill Duckett retired lat year after 8 years as AD and over 30 years at W&J. Mike has been head coach since 2003 after serving as OC. They list 10 coaches on their web site. The football facilities are first rate. There are 1,400 students ant 24 varsity sports with roughly 40% of the student body playing a varsity sport (call it 30%+ excluding football). There is a capital campaign underway which is targeting adding to endowment and capital improvements, particularly to athletic facilities (mostly non-football). 

Mike seems to be an effective recruiter. I take your observation about his coaching strategy since you've seen them play much more than I have and I don't pretend to be a football "expert" by any means. Might be interesting to hear what XTP has to say.

I know Mike is committed to bringing a national championship to W&J and perhaps the stars will align one year and it will happen. But I think they want to spend their money across the board to make more sports competitive since that is where the interests of so many students (and potential students) lie.

Jeff in Tennessee

Edit: Fixed quote formatting/pc

Quick:  tell me who the winningest program by percentage is.  That is until MHB plays enough games to become eligible for the list.  That team is in the PAC and has raised W&J's level of play, IMO.  They are better for Thomas More being in the PAC.  These W&J teams play better teams in the regular season.  I also feel like Mr Gregg is onto something.  Their D was on the field way too much at TMC and that D was gassed in the late 3rd and 4th Q's and couldn't get off the field in the 4th, at all.

Question:  how are you measuring success from 1982-1998?  I saw the 2nd place finishes in 1992 and 1994 which compares favorably with UMHB but there's nothing you can take from W&J's history that can be used to compare it to Mount Union (nobody can, no shame there) or Whitewater.  Their runs are unfathomable and outside of each other they have no peers. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2015, 04:32:23 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2015, 06:44:10 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 26, 2015, 06:34:34 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 26, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
Just started listening to ATN and spit out my coffee at the mention of breaking down the tackle total of the Case Western linebackers.  Well done, Pat.

Definitely laughed out loud at the office today when I heard that.

Thirded (is that a word?) - I was on a flight when I laughed out loud about it.  I'm sure the Air Marshall was wondering what my deal was.  Side note:  I really have to stop or try to stop LOL'ing on planes.  I did it last week also.

Glad you guys enjoyed that. I knew there was a very limited audience for that joke. :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 27, 2015, 05:22:37 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it?? It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

LOL.  I think I have to go to this one to make sure that I don't end up losing my first shot at marriage (next year, wedding date 4 days before I turn 30 - rake that, all you skeptics who said I'd never be married in my 20's!).  My dear fiancee has already gone (voluntarily!) to an away Carnegie Mellon game this season.  Explaining a trip to a road game that doesn't even involve my alma mater would be a lot harder...plus, my high school is currently playing very well, and I might need to save those "Honey, so I'm thinking..." points for a trip to the PA state semifinals and/or state finals in December.  And I'm not ruling out a road trip to Mount Union if we get an enticing matchup in the D3 quarters or semifinals...

I will be following the CWRU/TMC result with interest (and as we've said, CWRU has a fascinating in-between game here with a good WashU team, so let's give the Spartans a chance to play that one first).  Today, gun to my head, I would make TMC the favorite by....let's call it a 10.5-point spread to open the betting.  Line seems a bit high maybe, but CWRU just squeaked past W & J while TMC had a little easier time.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2015, 09:16:30 PM
WJ68, thanks for the kind words.  Not everybody likes to see me posting here, but that's their problem...

John Luckhardt was successful, mostly because of the things that made him "Lucky"...he owned whatever room he was in, he could sell ice cubes to Eskimos and he knew what was needed to take the long-dormant program where Howard Burnett wanted it to go. 

Dr. Burnett knew he was on the way out, certainly before Y2K would arrive.  Given the many issues Howie brought upon himself and the College, what better way to make them fade away than to shine a bright, positive light on W&J by restoring the lustre to a once-great football program ("Battling the Indians, Panthers and Nittany Lions").  And John Luckhardt was more than capable, with a little "open door policy" in admissions, to get the light shining.

Brian Mitchell's arrival brought incredible change, some good, some really not very good, to the College and the community.  The community relationships were greatly improved at quite a cost on campus...including forcing Lucky into roles he didn't want to fill.  I'll never forget the press conference introducing Banny as HC....Mitchell commented that there were more press people covering that than covered his introduction.  Banny showed his Super Bowl rings and said, "that's because of these."  The president, sternly, quipped, "It's YOUR job to get ME one of those..."

The final 15 months of Banny's tenure, and the years since have been, at times, uncomfortable on campus for me.  During the final weeks of Banny's time, conversations with Mike Sirianni made it very clear to me that HE wasn't going anywhere, regardless of what the rest of the staff did following the season.  That was a strange sense/feeling for me.

My evaluation of what I've seen of the W&J team comes with the caveat that I played in the band....I've never suited up for a single football game at any level beyond the backyard/playground games.  But, perhaps arrogantly, I maintain that THAT doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about or that I'm incapable of understanding the things I see happening.

I've seen/heard "Go, Go, Go" and it's exciting sometimes.  Numerous times, in response to inquiries about slowing down the game, I've seen/heard "that's who we are, that's how we play" so often, it makes me sick---Saturday night, last year at Mount Union, and a dozen other games (many of them W&J wins).  It's like running 80 offensive snaps has surpassed winning the game....that somehow, snapping the ball 80 times guarantees victory....

Saturday night, we were early in the fourth quarter and W&J had THREE designed runs in the half...all the while, the defense is over on the bench, trying to find oxygen masks and a little more than a 60-second respite.

I asked a question in the opening minutes of the broadcast Saturday..."when was the last time W&J played a really meaningful PAC game against a team NOT named Thomas More?"  The quick answer was, of course, Bethany 2013.

But here's the question that has haunted me since leaving DiSanto Field Saturday night:  What is this iteration of W&J football's record in "meaningful" PAC games?  Hint:  it's really not very good.  Four (or is it 5) straight losses to TMC, Bethany 2013, CWRU 2015, Thiel 2005, Waynesburg 2003...Waynesburg last year (costing the Presidents a home game)...there haven't been many meaningful PAC games (certainly against teams other than TMC), and W&J's record is them is not very good.

Mike is a great recruiter and has shown great commitment to the school.  He certainly does not have the freedom to get as many play-makers in that Lucky got.   But, the repeated reverting to "Go, Go, Go" when it appears "Slow, Slow, Slow" would better serve the team makes me wonder, aloud sometimes, about whether an extended run is even possible, let alone one that end in a return to the Stagg Bowl.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 28, 2015, 10:25:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

I don't think anyone really thinks that.  I think TMC will be a big challenge.  But the team has to take care of business against WashU first.  WashU seems to have dynamic offense. 

I watched a few quarters of TMC this season and I came away impressed with the team's ability to make things happen when it isn't at its best.  I think that the team will be at its best when the conference championship is on the line.

Since its senior night for our senior we will be there.  Stop up at the top of the parking garage to have a drink.  It would be great to meet you.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 28, 2015, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

I was going to suggest the Red Line rapid transit train since there's a stop inside the airport and one about 500 feet from your hotel on the same line (an easy 25 minute ride for $2.25).  However, I believe there is track work being done this weekend on the west side and the line is replaced with shuttle buses between a couple stops, so that makes it much more of a pain and time consuming.  Given that, I'd probably just take Uber, which is definitely viable from the airport.

The DoubleTree is nice but is a bit on an island between the Cleveland Clinic and the campus, so it's over a mile walk to the football field (which is on the far end of campus).  It's not a bad walk, but for future reference, there is a new (and nice) Courtyard by Marriott that is much closer to the field.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2015, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 28, 2015, 10:25:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

I don't think anyone really thinks that.  I think TMC will be a big challenge.  But the team has to take care of business against WashU first.  WashU seems to have dynamic offense. 

I watched a few quarters of TMC this season and I came away impressed with the team's ability to make things happen when it isn't at its best.  I think that the team will be at its best when the conference championship is on the line.

Since its senior night for our senior we will be there.  Stop up at the top of the parking garage to have a drink.  It would be great to meet you.

Will do, you'll have to let me know where on top and what you'll be wearing.  Met ADL70 last year in KY, so maybe he can help?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2015, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 28, 2015, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

I was going to suggest the Red Line rapid transit train since there's a stop inside the airport and one about 500 feet from your hotel on the same line (an easy 25 minute ride for $2.25).  However, I believe there is track work being done this weekend on the west side and the line is replaced with shuttle buses between a couple stops, so that makes it much more of a pain and time consuming.  Given that, I'd probably just take Uber, which is definitely viable from the airport.

The DoubleTree is nice but is a bit on an island between the Cleveland Clinic and the campus, so it's over a mile walk to the football field (which is on the far end of campus).  It's not a bad walk, but for future reference, there is a new (and nice) Courtyard by Marriott that is much closer to the field.

Thanks- but I believe my buddies driving up from Cincy will get us to the game.  I'll be arriving at the airport before they get into town Friday night.  That's too bad about the train - you never know what you're going to get with Uber.  I had a driver here who's real job title is Director for Scientology Boston.  That was a fun trip, messing with him.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 28, 2015, 08:06:49 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 28, 2015, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

I was going to suggest the Red Line rapid transit train since there's a stop inside the airport and one about 500 feet from your hotel on the same line (an easy 25 minute ride for $2.25).  However, I believe there is track work being done this weekend on the west side and the line is replaced with shuttle buses between a couple stops, so that makes it much more of a pain and time consuming.  Given that, I'd probably just take Uber, which is definitely viable from the airport.

The DoubleTree is nice but is a bit on an island between the Cleveland Clinic and the campus, so it's over a mile walk to the football field (which is on the far end of campus).  It's not a bad walk, but for future reference, there is a new (and nice) Courtyard by Marriott that is much closer to the field.

The Doubletree has a shuttle that will take you over to the field.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 28, 2015, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2015, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 28, 2015, 10:25:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

I don't think anyone really thinks that.  I think TMC will be a big challenge.  But the team has to take care of business against WashU first.  WashU seems to have dynamic offense. 

I watched a few quarters of TMC this season and I came away impressed with the team's ability to make things happen when it isn't at its best.  I think that the team will be at its best when the conference championship is on the line.

Since its senior night for our senior we will be there.  Stop up at the top of the parking garage to have a drink.  It would be great to meet you.

Will do, you'll have to let me know where on top and what you'll be wearing.  Met ADL70 last year in KY, so maybe he can help?

I will be wearing Aaron's old #37 jersey.  You will be able to find us on the top level of the parking garage without any problem!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2015, 07:26:12 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 28, 2015, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2015, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 28, 2015, 10:25:29 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

ExTP - you sure you can't mske it??  It's just a wedding..you can catch their 2nd marriages 😀

I don't think anyone really thinks that.  I think TMC will be a big challenge.  But the team has to take care of business against WashU first.  WashU seems to have dynamic offense. 

I watched a few quarters of TMC this season and I came away impressed with the team's ability to make things happen when it isn't at its best.  I think that the team will be at its best when the conference championship is on the line.

Since its senior night for our senior we will be there.  Stop up at the top of the parking garage to have a drink.  It would be great to meet you.

Will do, you'll have to let me know where on top and what you'll be wearing.  Met ADL70 last year in KY, so maybe he can help?

I will be wearing Aaron's old #37 jersey.  You will be able to find us on the top level of the parking garage without any problem!
I'll definitely find you.  Thomas More's official tailgate is up there on top as well - can you watch the game from there??
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2015, 07:27:19 AM
ExTP -

Am I still due to respond to you?  Forgive me, it's been a crazy week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 30, 2015, 08:20:09 AM
I am too short to see well over the barrier so I usually go into the stands for the game.  If you're taller you can watch the game up there.  We're usually up there about an hour and half before the game along with some students and sometimes parents from the other team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2015, 12:01:47 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on October 30, 2015, 08:20:09 AM
I am too short to see well over the barrier so I usually go into the stands for the game.  If you're taller you can watch the game up there.  We're usually up there about an hour and half before the game along with some students and sometimes parents from the other team.

Gotcha.  So I'm looking for someone who is a little person in a #37 jersey.  I'll find you 😀
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 31, 2015, 02:55:41 PM
Impressive win for Case Western Reserve over Wash U (St. Louis) today:  34-16 W

I was nervous this was going to become a "trap game" with a quality opponent sandwiched in between two nationally-ranked league opponents.  I bet the seniors and coaches were able to get the team up, as the senior class had never beaten Wash U.

Ironically enough, Wash U was featured on the predictions page this week as well:  http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2015/10/30/triple-take-week-9-several-down-and-three-to-go/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2015, 03:07:02 PM
Not quite the Game of the Week I thought it would be, at least not after halftime.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 31, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2015, 03:07:02 PM
Not quite the Game of the Week I thought it would be, at least not after halftime.

Although, it was a very entertaining game to watch...a ton of back and forth, especially the first 3 qtrs. 

CWRU's secondary rose to the challenge and played a very "bend, not break" type of game against a very good QB Tomlin.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 31, 2015, 05:07:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2015, 03:07:02 PM
Not quite the Game of the Week I thought it would be, at least not after halftime.

Guess Keith will have to admit that the pass D ain`t too shabby either.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2015, 07:07:38 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 31, 2015, 05:07:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2015, 03:07:02 PM
Not quite the Game of the Week I thought it would be, at least not after halftime.

Guess Keith will have to admit that the pass D ain`t too shabby either.

Did you see the Wash U QB throwing off his back foot and staring down his targets?

Was Case's defense the cause of this?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2015, 07:15:55 PM
Big game next weekend.  Kuntz had another very efficient 300 yard day today.  The defense played well:  rushing the passer and limiting the air game.  They only gave up 6 points until a garbage time TD. 

A couple things that are concerning: 

1.  Injuries.  TMC gets a couple people back next week in the backfield.  But there were a couple guys who got nicked up today.

2.  Turnovers.  The pick wasn't Kuntz's fault as the WR tipped it up in the air on a crossing route.  But the fumbles have to stop.  Ball security will be a focus this week. 

Overall - I like where this team is.  And I'm glad Hardin Simmons won - making it a tough road for TMC should they lose in Cleveland.  The playoffs start this week for the Saints - Shouldn't be any problem getting the kids ready to play.  All year they've played for their fallen teammate, honoring him with their play. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2015, 07:42:29 PM
Congrats to CWRU and Thomas More for winning today and setting up the championship game next week.

I too was worried about CWRU and the potential for a trap game against WashU, but it looks like they handled it well.

I'll be back with more comments on today's results later - for now I am watching the CMU-Thiel video stream and want to compliment Thiel on a very good production for an online stream.  Quality picture, no interruptions, audio is clear.  Commentators are very enthusiastic, too.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 31, 2015, 09:07:21 PM
Wow.  That escalated quickly.  Thiel was competitive with CMU for a quarter, but the Tartans poured it on with 35 points in the first 12 minutes of the second half (an avalanche of turnovers and short fields and quick scores).  Happy to see the Tartans at 5-3 entering the closing stretch with UAA rivals Chicago and Case Western.

I'll try to get some updated PAC rankings for discussion tomorrow.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 01, 2015, 08:10:34 AM
Definitely the PAC game of the year coming up next week.

Sure hope Case can pull it off.

It's been a long, hard road back to national relevance since the days of Dan Whalen.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 01, 2015, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2015, 07:07:38 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 31, 2015, 05:07:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2015, 03:07:02 PM
Not quite the Game of the Week I thought it would be, at least not after halftime.

Guess Keith will have to admit that the pass D ain`t too shabby either.

Did you see the Wash U QB throwing off his back foot and staring down his targets?

Was Case's defense the cause of this?

I wasn't able to watch much of the game so I don't know, but something made him less effective. It could have been the D.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 01, 2015, 03:38:39 PM
Working from last week's rankings...

The league has sorted itself out pretty nicely here.  Pretty distinct hierarchy that can be set up without violating almost any H2H results.  Please note that there's some weirdness in the official league standings because a few games between PAC teams are technically "non league" games (so Westminster only has one PAC loss despite having losses against TMC and W & J).  I am going to rank the teams by how good they actually are, not where they will finish in the standings.

1. Thomas More (9-0, 7-0)
2. Case Western (7-1, 6-0)

Both teams stayed focused and took care of business this week.  TMC has big news with Kuntz taking over full-time at QB; Case handled business against a quality WashU team in what could have been a trap game.  PAC title game coming next week.

------------------------------------------------

3. W & J (6-2, 4-2): Took care of business against Geneva.  Remains #3 in the rankings (lost to TMC and CWRU, beat Westminster).  Playing for pride the rest of the season.  Games against Thiel and Waynesburg honestly should be easy wins.

4. Westminster (6-2, 5-1): Handled St. Vincent pretty easily.  Remains ranked #4 (losses against TMC and W & J, win over CMU). Have not looked to see what they bring back next season but this has been a very nice year for the Titans.

5. Carnegie Mellon (5-3, 5-2): scuffled with Thiel for about a quarter before taking control and exploding early in the 3rd (as a slew of turnovers and quick scores turned a 24-13 halftime lead into a 59-13 laugher within the first 12 minutes of the second half).  The 73 points might be a CMU record.  Tough games to close against Chicago and CWRU.

------------------------------------------------

6. Bethany (4-5, 3-4): took care of Grove City yesterday (Jalen Holmes ran for 341 yards!) but has lost to CMU, has beaten Geneva and Waynesburg, will play St. Vincent in the finale to decide the #6 slot for good.

7. St. Vincent (3-5, 2-4): blowout losses the last two weeks (Westminster held them to 115 yards and two late garbage-time TD's yesterday; it would take some work to piece together but inferring from the drive stats, given that they had scoring drives of 76 and 17 yards in the fourth quarter, they may not have cleared 50 yards of total offense in the first three quarters).

8. Geneva (2-6, 1-5): has beaten Waynesburg and Grove City.  Chance to win another and move up a slot in these rankings if they can beat St. Vincent next week.

9. Waynesburg (3-6, 2-5): only wins have come against the bottom dwellers and have lost to both Bethany and Geneva.  Yuck.

-------------------------------------------------

10A. Grove City (0-8, 0-6)
10B. Thiel (1-7, 0-6)

Both teams continue to struggle.  Each was pseudo-competitive early yesterday, at least trading scores for a little while, before the respective games got out of hand.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 01, 2015, 06:42:27 PM
With the Top 25 updated, it will be #12 Thomas More vs #18 Case Western Reserve for the showdown in Cleveland for the PAC title--greatly looking forward to this game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
Crickets.  No thoughts on the game from the Case side?  Has anyone watched TMC this year?  Curious to see how you think the two teams matchup. 

I'm working on a comprehensive breakdown of the team's through my eyes.  It won't be done before Thursday, though.  I hope Spartan Mom will still want to meet me after reading it  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2015, 12:25:33 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2015, 12:19:12 PM


I'm working on a comprehensive breakdown of the team's through my eyes.  It won't be done before Thursday, though. I hope Spartan Mom will still want to meet me after reading it  ;D

Why  not? It's always fun telling people they are wrong in person!  ;D  Heck, it's an argument that will have an answer. We don't always get those.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 03, 2015, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
Crickets.  No thoughts on the game from the Case side?  Has anyone watched TMC this year?  Curious to see how you think the two teams matchup. 

I'm working on a comprehensive breakdown of the team's through my eyes.  It won't be done before Thursday, though.  I hope Spartan Mom will still want to meet me after reading it  ;D

I don't think there's a whole lot more to say, specifically.  We've been chatting a pretty good deal about the teams in general on here; everything I said about Case before the W & J game basically still stands, haha.  I'll leave it to you to tell us about Thomas More.

I have no specific rooting interest in the game: I admit some affinity for the old UAA teams but I have no axe to grind with Thomas More and they've certainly been a worthy league rep in the playoffs before.  My guess is about TMC by 14 points, but any result is fine with me as long as it's an exciting game and gives us a solid playoff representative.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 03, 2015, 01:28:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
Crickets.  No thoughts on the game from the Case side?  Has anyone watched TMC this year?  Curious to see how you think the two teams matchup. 

I feel Case seems to get enough publicity on the forum for strengths and weaknesses.

What is your perspective of/from the TM side of things?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 03, 2015, 02:42:03 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 27, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Just made my travel arrangements for next weekend:  I want to see the team everyone thinks is going to take TMC's lunch.  There are 8 of us old school alums headed up.  But the other 7 are driving while I get into Cleveland before they do.  Does anyone know if Uber is viable from the airport or will a cab be the best bet?  I'm staying at the DTree right next to campus (no fire alarm shenanigans, please). 

Saints, I wanted to give you an overview of the area:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/36tjnqw5w590qsg/Case%20Western%20Reserve%20area.jpg?dl=0

Click to enlarge:

(https://photos-5.dropbox.com/t/2/AAA3-COz3pTjwVnlWPy5XwBuiippPCbuuiTHg4dpzadIzQ/12/487070328/jpeg/1024x768/3/1446620400/0/2/Case%20Western%20Reserve%20area.jpg/CPi0oOgBIAEgAiADIAUgBygH/mNB0gPryQYsoXFB_TSABXbBpeF1DYwTIlmsh5RamHr8)

Your hotel is about 10-15 min walk to the stadium. 

The surrounding area has a lot going on...namely the Little Italy neighborhood.  Two of my personal favorite spots are Presti's Bakery and Nido Italia.  If you're feeling artsy, the nearby Cleveland Museum of Art is FREE and fantastic.

Cool bar spots:
- Barking Spider (live music 365 days a year) http://www.barkingspidertavern.com/
- Jolly Scholar (true CWRU student bar)
- Happy Dog at Euclid Tavern (known for their hotdogs)

If you're taking the rapid train to your hotel ($2.25 one way), be aware the Red Line has a temporary shuttle bus in between stops at the airport...http://www.riderta.com/service-alerts/red-line-replaced-buses-between-airport-and-puritas

Your stop for your hotel would be University Circle-Cedar Ave:  http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/cleveland_metro_system_map_(rail).png
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 03, 2015, 03:04:43 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
Crickets.  No thoughts on the game from the Case side?  Has anyone watched TMC this year?  Curious to see how you think the two teams matchup. 

I'm working on a comprehensive breakdown of the team's through my eyes.  It won't be done before Thursday, though.  I hope Spartan Mom will still want to meet me after reading it  ;D

Of course I will still want to meet you.  The game is just that, a game. 

I have watched some TMC over the season but not enough to be able to give a thorough analysis.  Statistically speaking (I'm a numbers kind a girl) TMC is very impressive.  Good offense and tough defense.  All around strong and able to win when not at its best.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 04, 2015, 01:20:33 PM
Here's some more hype for the game!

Some quotes from both coaches:  http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2015/11/4/FB_1104150305.aspx

CWRU preview: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151104e5d3dx

Fun fact of the day: Thomas More's head coach, Regis Scafe, is a Case Western Reserve alumnus. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on November 04, 2015, 01:27:02 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 04, 2015, 01:20:33 PM
Fun fact of the day: Thomas More's head coach, Regis Scafe, is a Case Western Reserve alumnus.

I'm sure he's a great guy and clearly a very good football coach, but isn't this the name of a Bond or Mission Impossible villain? And if it's not, shouldn't it be? Can't you picture Ben Kingsley in a role with the name Regis Scafe laughing maniacally as he uses his sophisticated British accent to tell the good guy all his plans while setting up the hero's extremely and unnecessarily complicated death?

Ben Kingsley: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001426/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2015, 01:36:35 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 04, 2015, 01:20:33 PM
Here's some more hype for the game!

Some quotes from both coaches:  http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2015/11/4/FB_1104150305.aspx

CWRU preview: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151104e5d3dx

Fun fact of the day: Thomas More's head coach, Regis Scafe, is a Case Western Reserve alumnus.

Fun fact of the day #2: Case Western's non-appearance in the initial batch of regional rankings (and W & J's for that matter) is a very strong sign that there will probably be no Pool C's coming from the PAC this year.  If CWRU beats Thomas More, the Saints will drop in the RR's and have the sort of "9-1, 0-1 against RR, mediocre SOS" profile that means trouble - especially because with CWRU currently not ranked, it's really hard to imagine they would just leap into the rankings at #4 or 5 and have TMC sitting there right beneath them.  A Case win probably drops TMC to at-best-8th in the RR's, maybe as low as 10th.  No appearance from CWRU and W & J in the initial RR's means that Thomas More has to win to be safely in.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 04, 2015, 02:44:13 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2015, 01:36:35 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 04, 2015, 01:20:33 PM
Here's some more hype for the game!

Some quotes from both coaches:  http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2015/11/4/FB_1104150305.aspx

CWRU preview: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151104e5d3dx

Fun fact of the day: Thomas More's head coach, Regis Scafe, is a Case Western Reserve alumnus.

Fun fact of the day #2: Case Western's non-appearance in the initial batch of regional rankings (and W & J's for that matter) is a very strong sign that there will probably be no Pool C's coming from the PAC this year.  If CWRU beats Thomas More, the Saints will drop in the RR's and have the sort of "9-1, 0-1 against RR, mediocre SOS" profile that means trouble - especially because with CWRU currently not ranked, it's really hard to imagine they would just leap into the rankings at #4 or 5 and have TMC sitting there right beneath them.  A Case win probably drops TMC to at-best-8th in the RR's, maybe as low as 10th.  No appearance from CWRU and W & J in the initial RR's means that Thomas More has to win to be safely in.

Where can you get SOS numbers for teams outside the regional rankings? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 04, 2015, 02:45:24 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on November 04, 2015, 02:44:13 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2015, 01:36:35 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 04, 2015, 01:20:33 PM
Here's some more hype for the game!

Some quotes from both coaches:  http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2015/11/4/FB_1104150305.aspx

CWRU preview: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151104e5d3dx

Fun fact of the day: Thomas More's head coach, Regis Scafe, is a Case Western Reserve alumnus.

Fun fact of the day #2: Case Western's non-appearance in the initial batch of regional rankings (and W & J's for that matter) is a very strong sign that there will probably be no Pool C's coming from the PAC this year.  If CWRU beats Thomas More, the Saints will drop in the RR's and have the sort of "9-1, 0-1 against RR, mediocre SOS" profile that means trouble - especially because with CWRU currently not ranked, it's really hard to imagine they would just leap into the rankings at #4 or 5 and have TMC sitting there right beneath them.  A Case win probably drops TMC to at-best-8th in the RR's, maybe as low as 10th.  No appearance from CWRU and W & J in the initial RR's means that Thomas More has to win to be safely in.

Where can you get SOS numbers for teams outside the regional rankings?

Under the NEWS tab on the front page of D3football.com.   :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2015, 04:07:15 PM
Or click the link at the top of the regional rankings page for strength of schedule numbers.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 04, 2015, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2015, 04:07:15 PM
Or click the link at the top of the regional rankings page for strength of schedule numbers.

Hey Pat, is this a bad link?  When I click on the SOS link through the Regional Rankings news tab, it brings me to 2014:

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2015/first-regional-ranking
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2015, 05:26:37 PM
Good catch -- it's fixed.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 04, 2015, 08:01:38 PM
Not only is Regis Scafe a CWRU alum, but he also served as CWRU's head coach for a time in the 1990s.

Since then, he has gone on to coach at John Carroll and Thomas More.

While Scafe was at JCU, CWRU beat him at least once, maybe twice.

Let's hope we can beat him at Thomas More as well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 12:12:41 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 04, 2015, 08:01:38 PM
Not only is Regis Scafe a CWRU alum, but he also served as CWRU's head coach for a time in the 1990s.

Since then, he has gone on to coach at John Carroll and Thomas More.

While Scafe was at JCU, CWRU beat him at least once, maybe twice.

Let's hope we can beat him at Thomas More as well.

I completely forgot CWRU has already beaten Scafe twice this decade -- yep, 2010 and 2011.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 12:15:23 AM
Cuda getting a featured shout out from the Chicago Tribune:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/elgin-courier-news/sports/ct-ecn-college-notes-rob-cuda-st-1105-20151104-story.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 07:23:21 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 04, 2015, 08:01:38 PM
Not only is Regis Scafe a CWRU alum, but he also served as CWRU's head coach for a time in the 1990s.

Since then, he has gone on to coach at John Carroll and Thomas More.

While Scafe was at JCU, CWRU beat him at least once, maybe twice.

Let's hope we can beat him at Thomas More as well.

I'm totally fine with that.  Case and Thomas More play annually now, at least they should while both are good. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 07:24:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 12:15:23 AM
Cuda getting a featured shout out from the Chicago Tribune:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/elgin-courier-news/sports/ct-ecn-college-notes-rob-cuda-st-1105-20151104-story.html

I'll check this out - it's pay and I'm sitting at breakfast.  My coworker commutes from Chicago and will have to let me use his password. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 05, 2015, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 07:24:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 12:15:23 AM
Cuda getting a featured shout out from the Chicago Tribune:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/elgin-courier-news/sports/ct-ecn-college-notes-rob-cuda-st-1105-20151104-story.html

I'll check this out - it's pay and I'm sitting at breakfast.  My coworker commutes from Chicago and will have to let me use his password.

I had to register but no payment was required.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 12:24:55 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on November 05, 2015, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 07:24:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 12:15:23 AM
Cuda getting a featured shout out from the Chicago Tribune:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/elgin-courier-news/sports/ct-ecn-college-notes-rob-cuda-st-1105-20151104-story.html

I'll check this out - it's pay and I'm sitting at breakfast.  My coworker commutes from Chicago and will have to let me use his password.

I had to register but no payment was required.

Ah, you know what happens when you assume!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:37:19 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 07:23:21 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 04, 2015, 08:01:38 PM
Not only is Regis Scafe a CWRU alum, but he also served as CWRU's head coach for a time in the 1990s.

Since then, he has gone on to coach at John Carroll and Thomas More.

While Scafe was at JCU, CWRU beat him at least once, maybe twice.

Let's hope we can beat him at Thomas More as well.

I'm totally fine with that.  Case and Thomas More play annually now, at least they should while both are good.

CWRU plays neither TMC nor W&J the next two seasons according to the future schedules on CWRU's site.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 01:41:05 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:37:19 PM

CWRU plays neither TMC nor W&J the next two seasons according to the future schedules on CWRU's site.

Wow, great observation.  http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

With Cuda and the rest of the sophomore class having 2 more years, this could get interesting...plus TMC and W&J may not mind this so much either.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 05, 2015, 01:43:13 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 01:41:05 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:37:19 PM

CWRU plays neither TMC nor W&J the next two seasons according to the future schedules on CWRU's site.

Wow, great observation.  http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

With Cuda and the rest of the sophomore class having 2 more years, this could get interesting.

That's insane.  Shades of the Whalen years when CWRU got a healthy dose of the NCAC, but never the top teams.  But that was far more benign- there wasn't a auto bid on the line. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2015, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 01:41:05 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:37:19 PM

CWRU plays neither TMC nor W&J the next two seasons according to the future schedules on CWRU's site.

Wow, great observation.  http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

With Cuda and the rest of the sophomore class having 2 more years, this could get interesting...plus TMC and W&J may not mind this so much either.

Oh, I think they'll mind quite a bit. 

Certainly CWRU is going to be tough to beat, but neither of those teams is scared of good competition, and this will give Case Western a chance to win the AQ without playing either of them (especially given the current state of the league, which falls off a cliff after the first couple of teams).  Yeah, I think they will mind.

Wally, also reminds me of when Kenyon had an outside chance to win the NCAC Pool A bid going into Week 11 without having played Wabash or Wittenberg.  Funny stuff happens when you don't play a full round-robin. 

I'm not blaming Case, as I assume the league schedules are handled by the PAC, but this sure seems like a happy coincidence for Case.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:51:41 PM
I recognize that it's a moot point, but don't understand Maryville with only .487 SOS (CWRU .511) and a bad loss to NCWes being ranked ahead of the Spartans.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2015, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:51:41 PM
I recognize that it's a moot point, but don't understand Maryville with only .487 SOS (CWRU .511) and a bad loss to NCWes being ranked ahead of the Spartans.

I think it's because they figured:

Maryville > (SAA cluster****) by way of Maryville's h2h win over Berry

Since Berry is undefeated and leading the SAA, they could justify Maryville > Berry as also > Hendrix, Chicago, etc

Since Chicago beat Case (yes, I know, by only one point and in the opener) they probably also put Case somewhere into that mess of SAA teams with 1 or 2 losses.

(I'm not actually saying that I agree with this, just laying out how they probably arrived at the ranking)

I was very surprised that CWRU was unranked, but as we both said it's a moot point.  Case wins this weekend, they're in.  Lose and they don't deserve it anyway.

The bottom of the South rankings (after W & L, I think) you can really toss all of the teams into a hat.  There are at least 10 teams that could be considered for the last 4 spots in the South rankings.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 03:37:48 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2015, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 01:41:05 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:37:19 PM

CWRU plays neither TMC nor W&J the next two seasons according to the future schedules on CWRU's site.

Wow, great observation.  http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

With Cuda and the rest of the sophomore class having 2 more years, this could get interesting...plus TMC and W&J may not mind this so much either.

Oh, I think they'll mind quite a bit. 

Certainly CWRU is going to be tough to beat, but neither of those teams is scared of good competition, and this will give Case Western a chance to win the AQ without playing either of them (especially given the current state of the league, which falls off a cliff after the first couple of teams).  Yeah, I think they will mind.

Wally, also reminds me of when Kenyon had an outside chance to win the NCAC Pool A bid going into Week 11 without having played Wabash or Wittenberg.  Funny stuff happens when you don't play a full round-robin. 

I'm not blaming Case, as I assume the league schedules are handled by the PAC, but this sure seems like a happy coincidence for Case.

You're correct - they'll mind quite a bit.  They should redo the schedule since Case is better than they were when that schedule was made up.  Can you imagine their strength of schedule without both Thomas More and W&J on it????
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2015, 01:41:05 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:37:19 PM

CWRU plays neither TMC nor W&J the next two seasons according to the future schedules on CWRU's site.

Wow, great observation.  http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

With Cuda and the rest of the sophomore class having 2 more years, this could get interesting...plus TMC and W&J may not mind this so much either.

Let's not crown Case just yet.  Or what if it's CWRU who doesn't mind missing out on Thomas More? ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 04:06:54 PM
PD coverage:P  http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2015/11/case_western_reserve_qb_rob_cu.html


A side note: in addition to Cuda, Connor Simpson was a freshman QB for the Spartans last season.  He's now one of six QBs on SMU's roster, a walk-on I presume.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 05:53:16 PM
Reasons to like this Thomas More team (as a fan of Thomas More):

*Size and athleticism on both lines.  After the 2010 debacle at UMHB in the playoffs, Hilvert had his marching orders to get bigger and more athletic on the DLine and OLine while developing depth.  The OL is big and moves well.  The group is also dominated by seniors who've played lots of football.  The DEnds and tackles are big and athletic while the ends have speed.  When teams have had obvious passing situations, they've flat gotten after the QB. 

*Secondary Play of the CBs.  In past years TMC has had great safeties and serviceable CBs.  This group of CBs (they can play 4) are very athletic and have made plays in both man and zone coverage.  The Safeties are also up to the standard that has been set by guys like Autenreib.  They played very well against W&J, baiting Coughlin into 3 INTs in the game along with 7 breakups. 

*Overall Depth.  When players have gotten hurt at RB, QB, OL and CB there are quality backups to step in.  I'm sure practices are straight up competitions. 

*Intangibles:  while this was already a very close group who lost their HC in the offseason, the players have really united in their pursuit of excellence after the tragic loss of Mitch Kramer.  #12 has been everywhere this year, from 12 TD's scored against Hanover to their #12 ranking for most of the season.  These kids will be brothers for life and have honored his memory through their play. 

Now, I'm comparing Case to W&J - which, defensively they are similar.  Throw the numbers out for W&J against TMC and Case and you'll see what I mean.  It's an opportunistic unit and they've played very well in 2015.  The offense is similar in that they use the spread with a hurry up but the similarities end there.  Case throws downfield more and has a better QB.  His 25:1 ratio is pretty filthy, too.  The offense revolves around him while W&J has a 1,000 yard rusher as well.  But defending a QB run from an empty set is tough to do.   

In talking about Thomas More's strengths above, I've used the W&J game as a one game season with influences from the St Vincent game when TMC had to dig deep to win after coming out flat. St Vincent took advantage and had a 14 point lead after two possessions.  Without that test, we'd be looking at a team which was only tested once this year.  Back to W&J - it's a compliment to compare what I've studied of CWRU this week to the Presidents.  I think the future is very bright with Cuda at QB and not playing either TMC or W&J the next two years.  But Case is just different enough from W&J, offensively to be very dangerous.  The team knows it's win or go home and that Case is very, very dangerous.  Whether or not it's too much pressure for the kids from KY, we'll see.  I do know Regis Scafe was brought into the fold for his big game experience at JCU, so we'll see how this one plays out.


It's been a fun year to follow TMC Football and regardless of what happens Saturday, they will have played perhaps the best season in the school's history when you factor in what has happened off the field. 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2015, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 03:39:30 PM
Let's not crown Case just yet.  Or what if it's CWRU who doesn't mind missing out on Thomas More? ;D
And THAT could be why the winner of the TMC/W&J game would claim the AQ....a better strength of schedule...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2015, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2015, 03:39:30 PM
Let's not crown Case just yet.  Or what if it's CWRU who doesn't mind missing out on Thomas More? ;D
And THAT could be why the winner of the TMC/W&J game would claim the AQ....a better strength of schedule...

I see - I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to dust off the PAC's tiebreakers
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 06, 2015, 10:04:35 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2015, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:51:41 PM
I recognize that it's a moot point, but don't understand Maryville with only .487 SOS (CWRU .511) and a bad loss to NCWes being ranked ahead of the Spartans.

I think it's because they figured:

Maryville > (SAA cluster****) by way of Maryville's h2h win over Berry

Since Berry is undefeated and leading the SAA, they could justify Maryville > Berry as also > Hendrix, Chicago, etc

Since Chicago beat Case (yes, I know, by only one point and in the opener) they probably also put Case somewhere into that mess of SAA teams with 1 or 2 losses.

(I'm not actually saying that I agree with this, just laying out how they probably arrived at the ranking)

I was very surprised that CWRU was unranked, but as we both said it's a moot point.  Case wins this weekend, they're in.  Lose and they don't deserve it anyway.

The bottom of the South rankings (after W & L, I think) you can really toss all of the teams into a hat.  There are at least 10 teams that could be considered for the last 4 spots in the South rankings.

The puzzler for me is Huntingdon.  They are a one loss team with a .393 SOS, and if Case's 1 point loss in the opener to a team they should have beaten (both statistically and by virtue of being up 14 in the 4th quarter before blowing it) was the reason for them not being in the rankings, what about Huntingdon's loss to 4-5 Birmingham-Southern in week two?  Birmingham-Southern got beat by Chicago 28-14 and Washington U 41-13, and will likely end up 4-6 after playing Berry this week.  I have no idea how Huntingdon could have been put at #8.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 06, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on November 06, 2015, 10:04:35 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2015, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 01:51:41 PM
I recognize that it's a moot point, but don't understand Maryville with only .487 SOS (CWRU .511) and a bad loss to NCWes being ranked ahead of the Spartans.

I think it's because they figured:

Maryville > (SAA cluster****) by way of Maryville's h2h win over Berry

Since Berry is undefeated and leading the SAA, they could justify Maryville > Berry as also > Hendrix, Chicago, etc

Since Chicago beat Case (yes, I know, by only one point and in the opener) they probably also put Case somewhere into that mess of SAA teams with 1 or 2 losses.

(I'm not actually saying that I agree with this, just laying out how they probably arrived at the ranking)

I was very surprised that CWRU was unranked, but as we both said it's a moot point.  Case wins this weekend, they're in.  Lose and they don't deserve it anyway.

The bottom of the South rankings (after W & L, I think) you can really toss all of the teams into a hat.  There are at least 10 teams that could be considered for the last 4 spots in the South rankings.

The puzzler for me is Huntingdon.  They are a one loss team with a .393 SOS, and if Case's 1 point loss in the opener to a team they should have beaten (both statistically and by virtue of being up 14 in the 4th quarter before blowing it) was the reason for them not being in the rankings, what about Huntingdon's loss to 4-5 Birmingham-Southern in week two?  Birmingham-Southern got beat by Chicago 28-14 and Washington U 41-13, and will likely end up 4-6 after playing Berry this week.  I have no idea how Huntingdon could have been put at #8.

The "should have" stuff about CWRU vs. Chicago isn't relevant.  Losing is losing and losing that game in particular, no matter what the yardage totals may have been, puts CWRU on the back end of a pecking order. 

The point about Huntingdon is legit.  They probably shouldn't be ranked with that SOS and no results vs. RROs.  They may be a decent team, but that's a pretty poor profile and the ranking is dubious for sure. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 06, 2015, 11:04:11 AM
While I agree that losing is losing most end of season rankings weight early season action less than late season action.  After all, the regional rankings are being used to rank the teams now, not during the first week.  It's true that all one loss teams have one loss, but in my experience an early loss, especially a close one to a decent team in week 1 usually doesn't hurt a team as much as a loss late in the season (or to a weak opponent).

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2015, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 06, 2015, 10:34:18 AM

The point about Huntingdon is legit.  They probably shouldn't be ranked with that SOS and no results vs. RROs.  They may be a decent team, but that's a pretty poor profile and the ranking is dubious for sure.

I don't get this either. Unless they are just setting up the winner of this weekend to be in the rankings. Doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 06, 2015, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 06, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
The "should have" stuff about CWRU vs. Chicago isn't relevant.  Losing is losing and losing that game in particular, no matter what the yardage totals may have been, puts CWRU on the back end of a pecking order. 

The point about Huntingdon is legit.  They probably shouldn't be ranked with that SOS and no results vs. RROs.  They may be a decent team, but that's a pretty poor profile and the ranking is dubious for sure.

True about the loss.  I wasn't trying to minimize it or say it shouldn't be taken into account, but rather say that there's no reason to look at it as a worse loss than Huntingdon's loss.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 06, 2015, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2015, 04:06:54 PM
PD coverage:P  http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2015/11/case_western_reserve_qb_rob_cu.html


Quote from the Case Western head coach:

"Thomas More passes the eyeball test," Debeljak said. "They're big, fast and strong. They're enormous for a Division III team. They have great athletes everywhere and they're just demolishing teams. It's going to take a well played game to beat them."

And this is definitely a playoff game for Case Western...especially after that Sept 5th loss.   Too bad it's not like DI football where an early season loss ends up carrying less weigh than an end of the season loss.

So from what I'm understanding, Thomas More still gets in even with a loss either way?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 06, 2015, 01:18:01 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 06, 2015, 01:08:19 PM
So from what I'm understanding, Thomas More still gets in even with a loss either way?

Nooo.  TMC is very much lingering around the last in/first out area if they lose tomorrow. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2015, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 06, 2015, 01:18:01 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 06, 2015, 01:08:19 PM
So from what I'm understanding, Thomas More still gets in even with a loss either way?

Nooo.  TMC is very much lingering around the last in/first out area if they lose tomorrow.

And the team is treating it like their first playoff game - Case has their full attention because of what Wally said above.  And it's not a surprise to them to be in this spot.  They've known it would be "win the PAC or else.." ever since the CWRU/W&J game.  Frankly, their position is why there are so many fans headed North today. 

There will be no surprises this weekend on the TMC side, as the Saints know how good Case has been, and know what Case is playing for and know exactly what the result must be for the right to keep playing together.

They are excited to play in a true "winner take all" for the PAC and Playoffs. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 06, 2015, 04:13:17 PM
My key to the game here...what on earth does CWRU do with this guy:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi235.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee99%2Fjay911_50%2Ftop_gun_goose_and_maverick.jpg&hash=e5c93ad05ed3271041c27d0479f1948ccdbe4986)

The riddle hasn't been solved yet this season. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2015, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 06, 2015, 04:13:17 PM
My key to the game here...what on earth does CWRU do with this guy:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi235.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee99%2Fjay911_50%2Ftop_gun_goose_and_maverick.jpg&hash=e5c93ad05ed3271041c27d0479f1948ccdbe4986)

The riddle hasn't been solved yet this season.


LOL - yeehah!  Jester's dead!

I do think he'll be an All American,  he definitely has the stats and plays like one.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2015, 02:22:21 PM
14-13 Thomas More leads at halftime. 

Saints have forced 2 Turnovers, 2 FG's, had some big penalties and dropped 2 INTs on the goal line. 

Needless to say, the D has played well despite being on the field a lot.  TMC has been a 2nd half team all year, and they'll need to be today as well. 

The defense needs to wrap up the ball carrier better this half and play well enough so the zebras don't decide it.  I guess they see TMC as the aggressive team, refs call what they see but it's been lopsided in favor of Case in that department, I'm not sure Case has had a penalty accepted against them so far. 

Cuda has been as advertised, he's a real gamer.  And #1 at WR has made some plays as well. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: formerd3db on November 07, 2015, 03:31:33 PM
SaintsFAN:

Looks like your TM is having a tough game today.

ExTartan: 

Wow, your CM really blasted Chicago today.  What a breakout game!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: formerd3db on November 07, 2015, 03:48:55 PM
SaintsFAN:

Looks like your TM is having a tough game today.

ExTartan: 

Wow, your CM really blasted Chicago today.  What a breakout game!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2015, 04:04:54 PM
Case is a very good team with a lot of fight in them.  The turnovers forced were the difference today. 

SpartanMom - great meeting you, your son and that defense played really well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 07, 2015, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: formerd3db on November 07, 2015, 03:48:55 PM

Wow, your CM really blasted Chicago today.  What a breakout game!

Holy crap Carnegie Mellon!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 07, 2015, 04:14:48 PM
What an epic battle today in Cleveland, and congrats to TMC for pulling out this victory.

Thomas More played like a second half team...and I admit, I was thinking CWRU had this one when they were leading 26-14 late in the 3rd.

Here is the box score: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/boxscores/20151107_50x7.xml

A few thoughts:
- TMC defense was the definition of "bend not break" today.  CWRU put up almost 500 yards of offense on them, but TMC goal line defense held strong forcing 4 Red Zone field goals (and I believe at least one Redzone INT)
- CWRU's 5 turnovers a killer.  Who knew Cuda was capable of throwing INTs?  The CWRU INT and fumble late in the 4th qtr were extremely untimely to say the least, and TMC did a nice job capitalizing.
- This was a battle -- Both teams left it all on the field and both teams were getting testy in close yardage situations.   
- Time of possession blew my mind -- CWRU 36:59 vs TMC 23:01
- TMC kick returns (Markus James) were consistently good.
- TMC is huge!  This had to be the largest team CWRU has played in a long time.
- TMC can hit.  Some of those blocks were impressive and looked painful.

Congrats to TMC on a hard-earned and impressive victory.  It's really a shame these teams won't meet again until 2018, as I'd expect similar battles. 

Now CWRU needs to face a surging Carnegie Mellon away at Pittsburgh who put a smack down on the University of Chicago. 

With the slugfest that occurred today, I truly hope the NCAA notices CWRU.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 08, 2015, 11:16:28 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2015, 04:04:54 PM
Case is a very good team with a lot of fight in them.  The turnovers forced were the difference today. 

SpartanMom - great meeting you, your son and that defense played really well.

It was great to meet you today.  I agree that the turnovers were the difference.  It was a very exciting game and both teams should be proud of their play.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 08, 2015, 05:19:51 PM
Here are some reviews of the game:

Cleveland Plain Dealer (quotes from the coach included): http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2015/11/case_western_reserve_falls_to.html


Recap from CWRU: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151107pqkias
Recap from TMC: http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151107oxeq1j
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 08, 2015, 06:36:23 PM
The turnovers certainly hurt, but so did four red-zone trips that yielded only FGs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 08, 2015, 09:20:06 PM
I was at a wedding this weekend, followed games on Saturday via live stats.  I am indeed very pleased (and surprised) by the hurtin' CMU put on Chicago.  The Tartans have clearly improved as the season has progressed, and I did think they had a chance to beat a fairly strong Chicago team, but the 52-7 beatdown was a shocker (actually the "7" is even more surprising than the "52" - the offense has been consistently productive but this was probably the defense's best effort all year).  Now we'll get a really fun Academic Bowl matchup next week with a streaking-and-improving 6-3 Carnegie Mellon vs. the excellent 7-2 Case Western team that's also improved over the season and just took an excellent Thomas More team down to the wire.

Thanks to all who have posted their thoughts on the CWRU-TMC game.  I was following with interest: Case certainly played with TMC and showed that they belonged, but TMC made enough key plays (turnovers, red-zone stops, etc) to overcome CWRU's edge in yardage and time of possession.  We all now must become Thomas More fans in the playoffs for the sake of the PAC's league profile.

Quote from: E.115 on November 07, 2015, 04:14:48 PM
With the slugfest that occurred today, I truly hope the NCAA notices CWRU.

Sorry, but there's no chance at all if you mean this in the context of the playoffs.  No offense to Case, but it's just a reality - their profile as a Pool C team isn't anything near what would be needed for selection as a Pool C bid.  They weren't even listed in the first set of South regional rankings, which means right now they can't even be in the at-large discussion.  CWRU will have to settle for a strong effort in the Academic Bowl and making a run the next two years.  Curious - anyone have a clue what the tiebreaker will be if there are two undefeated teams in PAC play?  That scenario is certainly in play next year with Case and TMC/W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 08, 2015, 09:33:42 PM
Very odd to see a San Francisco news media mention the Thomas More-Case Western Reserve game...but check it out: http://www.csnbayarea.com/ncaa/rattos-top-25-good-intentions-vault-missouri-no-1
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 09, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Ex-Tartan,

I'll certainly root for Thomas More in the playoffs.  They deserve it.

I agree that an at-large bid seems unlikely at this time, but if we can finish the season on a high note with a win in the Academic Bowl, then we'll definitely be in good shape for next season.

With Cuda returning at QB, and no Thomas More or W&J on the schedule, we should be considered a top contender for the 2016 PAC title.

Who knows?

Maybe next year's Academic Bowl will have an automatic playoff berth on the line!

That said, this year's Academic Bowl could be the toughest and most evenly matched in years.  Should be a GREAT game!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 09, 2015, 08:32:02 PM
I just realized one thing.

If Case beats CMU this week, do we not lay claim to being UAA "co-champion?"
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 09, 2015, 09:08:32 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 09, 2015, 08:32:02 PM
I just realized one thing.

If Case beats CMU this week, do we not lay claim to being UAA "co-champion?"

CWRU 1-1 (lost Chicago, beat WashU)
CMU 1-1 (lost WashU, beat Chicago)
Chicago 1-1 (beat CWRU, lost CMU)
WashU 1-1 (beat CMU, lost CWRU)

Draw your own conclusion.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2015, 09:16:10 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 09, 2015, 09:08:32 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 09, 2015, 08:32:02 PM
I just realized one thing.

If Case beats CMU this week, do we not lay claim to being UAA "co-champion?"

CWRU 1-1 (lost Chicago, beat WashU)
CMU 1-1 (lost WashU, beat Chicago)
Chicago 1-1 (beat CWRU, lost CMU)
WashU 1-1 (beat CMU, lost CWRU)

Draw your own conclusion.

So, co-champions or co-cellar-dwellers - you choose! ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 09, 2015, 10:20:44 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 09, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
That said, this year's Academic Bowl could be the toughest and most evenly matched in years.  Should be a GREAT game!

Agree that this year's Academic Bowl is the best matchup we've had in quite awhile. 

In 2012 we had 6-3 CMU vs. 5-4 Case Western, but neither team really went into the game with the kind of momentum that both teams are bringing in this year.

Before that, I think you'd have to go back to the 2007 season to find a matchup where both teams were strong in the same season.  You had the upstart 5-0 Case Western team (on the way to the first Whalen-era playoff berth) coming to Gesling to play the defending-league-champion Tartans (although we were 2-3 at the time with a string of close losses; we would ultimately finish 7-4 with an ECAC bowl win).  Since then, Case has been very good several times, but CMU has not really held up our end of the bargain in the years where Case was good.  We definitely haven't seen a year where this game was the finale and both teams came in fairly hot...poor competition or not, CMU has won five straight games and outscored opponents 266-74 in that stretch.  Case just took a top-15 team down to the wire, on the heels of a seven-game winning streak that included a win over the defending league champs and a bunch of blowout wins of their own.  It's definitely safe to say that this should be the best game of the series in some time.  I'll do a detailed preview a little later this week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 11, 2015, 01:51:28 AM
I know I keep posting articles, but I keep finding new ones!  Two more:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/othercolleges/2015/11/10/tmc-honors-fallen-teammate-pac-title/75518998/

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2015/11/case_western_reserve_is_a_team.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2015, 11:27:47 AM
Here's one more for you:
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2015/case-western-carnegie-mellon-back-in-pac
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 11, 2015, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2015, 11:27:47 AM
Here's one more for you:
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2015/case-western-carnegie-mellon-back-in-pac

Thanks for sharing, Pat.  I'm excited that CMU and CWRU have a good football home in the PAC and hope that this brings some stability to the schedule.  Would be great to develop some true regional rivalries with these schools.

Case guys - do you know if there are plans to make the Academic Bowl the season-ending game every year?  I think we should do that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 11, 2015, 05:54:34 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2015, 11:27:47 AM
Here's one more for you:
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2015/case-western-carnegie-mellon-back-in-pac

Fantastic! Thank you.

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 11, 2015, 11:45:09 AM
Case guys - do you know if there are plans to make the Academic Bowl the season-ending game every year?  I think we should do that.

I can't speak for the long term, but this will be the case for at least the next two seasons: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 11, 2015, 08:56:39 PM
Complete highlights from the CWRU-TMC epic battle in Cleveland this past weekend.

Congrats again to TMC.

http://youtu.be/oXEgl9mOYdM
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 12, 2015, 09:46:08 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 11, 2015, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2015, 11:27:47 AM
Here's one more for you:
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2015/case-western-carnegie-mellon-back-in-pac

Thanks for sharing, Pat.  I'm excited that CMU and CWRU have a good football home in the PAC and hope that this brings some stability to the schedule.  Would be great to develop some true regional rivalries with these schools.

Case guys - do you know if there are plans to make the Academic Bowl the season-ending game every year?  I think we should do that.

When the affiliations were announced, it was stated that week eleven would be for rivalry games: CWRU-CMU, Thiel-GC, W&J-Waynesburg, etc.

Interested to see if a nine game conference schedule will be in the offing when UAA football fades away after 2017.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2015, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 11, 2015, 08:56:39 PM
Complete highlights from the CWRU-TMC epic battle in Cleveland this past weekend.

Congrats again to TMC.

http://youtu.be/oXEgl9mOYdM

Thanks for sharing, very cool. 

Nothing against one-sided highlight videos produced by one team, but I always enjoy the chance to view a quick summary of all scoring plays and highlights in both directions, so this was fun.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2015, 05:08:59 PM
Je Suis Paris
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2015, 05:43:48 PM
Tartans win an absolutely marvelous contest 52-42.  Just got home, will catch up on the day's happenings and post some thoughts later.  I am thrilled for the Tartans, who won their first Academic Bowl since 2006 and have notched their first seven-win season since 2007 (both of which happened while I was still lining up at left tackle).  Really a great way for CMU to show progress this season, ending the regular season on a six-game winning streak, finishing with two wins against 6-2 Chicago and 7-2 CWRU, and likely getting an ECAC game next weekend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2015, 08:56:53 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2015, 05:43:48 PM
Tartans win an absolutely marvelous contest 52-42.  Just got home, will catch up on the day's happenings and post some thoughts later.  I am thrilled for the Tartans, who won their first Academic Bowl since 2006 and have notched their first seven-win season since 2007 (both of which happened while I was still lining up at left tackle).  Really a great way for CMU to show progress this season, ending the regular season on a six-game winning streak, finishing with two wins against 6-2 Chicago and 7-2 CWRU, and likely getting an ECAC game next weekend.

Congrats - that's a good win.  My initial thought reading the score/stats:  Maybe CWRU's favorable PAC schedule for the next two years won't really affect the conference race too much.  Case is young in some spots but they lose quite a bit defensively, on the offensive line and their big WR.  Recruiting will be key for them, as an insider told one of our Cleveland guys that there was concern this year if starters went down with injury - which obviously didn't happen outside of losing the RB for a stretch.  But, Cuda did lead the team in rushing so they didn't really have a backup step up at RB. 

Anyways, I counted 76 on the roster for the Spartans and frankly, to establish quality depth, they'll need more on the roster than that.  I look at TMC during this campaign and despite losing a couple OL for a couple games, a starting all conference RB for 3 games and QB health issues for 5 games - the Saints were still able to decimate their foes for 9 games and survive a big test with their last opponent while down that RB and a QB. 

I think Cuda is good enough to keep them in big games, but they'll need depth to win the biggest ones on the schedule. 

And look at what SJF did to finish 7-3.  Did they win their conference?  That 48-0 win looks a lot better than it did 6 weeks ago. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2015, 09:09:49 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to write off Case as a contender, haha, not just one week after they took Thomas More to the wire.  They had to go on the road and play a hot team in a rivalry game one week after their playoff chances were ended.  IMO it would be a little understandable (if not excusable) to be flat today.

You're absolutely right that recruiting and building depth are key, though.  Teams like CMU and CWRU have to take advantage of good seasons like this and bring in a big recruiting class to keep that momentum going.  A roster with 76 guys on it is less than ideal.  About 100-110 guys is about the right number for a D3 program.  Ideally, bringing in 35-40 guys per year with 50% four-year retention will give you 40 freshies, 30-some sophomores, 20-some juniors, and 20 seniors.

I look forward to seeing where the Saints end up in the playoff bracket.  It's a shame for them that SJF didn't get their act together just a little bit sooner; 8-2 SJF probably would have been regionally ranked and given TMC a little bonus point in the seeding process.  As things currently stand, they have zero regionally ranked wins (shame, since they have three wins against "pretty good but not quite RR" teams in W & J, Case, and SJF).  Probably means a first-round home game and then maybe going on the road after that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2015, 09:44:07 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2015, 09:09:49 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to write off Case as a contender, haha, not just one week after they took Thomas More to the wire.  They had to go on the road and play a hot team in a rivalry game one week after their playoff chances were ended.  IMO it would be a little understandable (if not excusable) to be flat today.

You're absolutely right that recruiting and building depth are key, though.  Teams like CMU and CWRU have to take advantage of good seasons like this and bring in a big recruiting class to keep that momentum going.  A roster with 76 guys on it is less than ideal.  About 100-110 guys is about the right number for a D3 program.  Ideally, bringing in 35-40 guys per year with 50% four-year retention will give you 40 freshies, 30-some sophomores, 20-some juniors, and 20 seniors.

I look forward to seeing where the Saints end up in the playoff bracket.  It's a shame for them that SJF didn't get their act together just a little bit sooner; 8-2 SJF probably would have been regionally ranked and given TMC a little bonus point in the seeding process.  As things currently stand, they have zero regionally ranked wins (shame, since they have three wins against "pretty good but not quite RR" teams in W & J, Case, and SJF).  Probably means a first-round home game and then maybe going on the road after that.

Definitely not writing off any team with Cuda at QB - I had very good things to say about him and Case on last week's podcast, which I stand by even after their third loss. 

I think those three teams you mentioned have TMC better prepared for this tournament than any TMC team I can remember.  They may not be ranked and the rest of the records of their opponents are bad enough that some are going to sleep on TMC this postseason and I think that's a mistake.  They are poised for a run.  Having seen top level playoff teams over the past decade plus (mostly by trips to Alliance), I see this team has the right players in the three units where the top teams in the Division separate themselves from the rest:  OL, DL, and DBs.  Those are three units where it's hard to find real quality D3 guys as the higher divisions take the lineman with size and the skill DBs who have ball skills.

We'll see what happens. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 15, 2015, 02:03:54 PM
Well, let's take one last look at the "ExTartanPlayer PAC Rankings" for the 2015 season.  I'll add a little color here, being the last edition.  Please note that the final grades I am giving out are relative to each team's expectations, so if you see a team near the bottom with a higher grade than a team near the top, that's why.  I'm also not paying attention to where the teams fall in the official conference standings – the unbalanced schedule and oddity of some teams playing games against each other that are officially "non conference" games has created some weird stuff there (i.e. Geneva is listed below Waynesburg in the standings because only one of their wins against Grove City & Waynesburg technically counted as a "conference" game, even though that would be 2 wins against PAC teams). Without further ado:

1. Thomas More

Kickoff Projection: 8-2
Actual Record: 10-0
Season Highlights: 38-20 win over W & J, 36-32 win over Case Western
Season Lowlights: 42-28 win over St. Vincent
Final Grade: A

So an undefeated team doesn't really have any "lowlights" – however, they did have to come from behind against a merely average St. Vincent team.  However, the Saints do have plenty of highlights to enjoy: breaking a short losing streak against W & J, winning a thriller at Case Western for the league title.  Will be interesting to see where they fall in the playoff bracket.  We're all Thomas More fans now. 

Moving on...teams #2 through #5 are difficult to "rank" because they all have a common-opponent result that favors one against the other.  Case beat W& J who beat Westminster who beat Carnegie Mellon who beat Case...and around and around we go.  Ultimately, I decided to rank Case #2 because they were the only team that really pushed Thomas More through the finish line, and they also had the h2h win over W & J.  Obviously you can flip this around and point out that W & J and Westminster both beat CMU, who just beat Case, and you wouldn't be wrong.  My thinking is that the best way to break this tangle is to look at who gave the league champion the toughest game, and that's Case.  But please know that teams #2-5 here are effectively in a four-way tie for second place.  So, with that said:

2. Case Western

Kickoff Projection: 3-7
Actual Record: 7-3
Season Highlights: 35-28 win over W & J, 36-32 loss to Thomas More
Season Lowlights: 52-42 loss to Carnegie Mellon
Final Grade: A

Beating W & J was a huge program win.  Case came into the year picked 3-7 and instead was playing Thomas More down to the wire for the league title in week 10.  The season-ending loss to Carnegie Mellon may leave a sour taste in their mouths, but Case had a magical ride and things should look good the next few years with Rob Cuda at the wheel.

3. Washington & Jefferson

Kickoff Projection: 10-0
Actual Record: 8-2
Season Highlights: 35-31 win over Westminster, 38-14 win over CMU
Season Lowlights: 38-20 loss to Thomas More, 35-28 loss to Case Western
Final Grade: B-minus

Who would have known that W & J would look back at the end of the season and see those wins against Westminster and CMU as the two best teams they beat all year?  W & J did not have a bad season by any stretch, but an 8-2 record and home for the playoffs is not what they were hoping for this year.

4. Westminster

Kickoff Projection: 7-3
Actual Record: 8-2
Season Highlights: 26-16 win over CMU, 35-31 loss to W & J
Season Lowlights: 45-14 loss to Thomas More
Final Grade: A-minus

Westminster came into this season with pretty high expectations (for them) and exceeded them.  Blowout loss to Thomas More was disappointing just because they weren't competitive, but other than that they played very well all season and closed the year on a six-game winning streak.  Again, the win over CMU just looked "OK" at the time, but as it turns out that was a good CMU team.  Speaking of which...

5. Carnegie Mellon

Kickoff Projection: 1-9
Actual Record: 7-3
Season Highlights: 52-7 win over Chicago, 52-42 win over Case Western
Season Lowlights: 38-14 loss to W & J, 26-16 loss to Westminster
Final Grade: A

So I have to admit that I looked at this Kickoff projection and thought "Really?"  I knew we would be better than 1-9.  I did not know that we'd rip off six wins in a row (averaging 54 points per game during that stretch!) and have a running back go for 1,897 yards.  Much like Case Western, I think the future is bright at CMU.  I also expect that CMU will get an ECAC bowl game so they may have one more week to go.

Pause at this juncture to note: for a league that's struggled over the last couple years as basically a two-team league with W & J and Thomas More, I think this season was very encouraging.  Case, Westminster, and CMU all emerged this year as genuinely good Division III teams who would have been in the upper half of most leagues (witness CMU's blowout win over Chicago and Case pulling away from WashU late in the season).  If all three can build on this momentum, maybe next year we'll have a series of games that impact the league title race instead of just one or two games deciding the league title.

6. Bethany

Kickoff Projection: 7-3
Actual Record: 5-5
Season Highlights: 35-27 win over St. Vincent
Season Lowlights: 56-35 loss to Carnegie Mellon, 59-20 loss to Case
Final Grade: C

it's a testament to how far Bethany's program has come that a 5-5 season can be labeled a disappointment – when I was in school Bethany was really terrible - but it was.  Bethany was playing for a share of the league title late last season and per the Kickoff projection, expected to be in the mix again.  Instead they were obliterated by both CMU and Case and really were non-competitive against good teams.

7. St. Vincent

Kickoff Projection: 6-4
Actual Record: 4-6
Season Highlights: 28-21 win over Waynesburg, 42-28 loss to Thomas More
Season Lowlights: 41-13 loss to Carnegie Mellon
Final Grade: C

All of their wins came against bad teams, although to their credit they did win big; really their best result of the season was probably their loss to Thomas More, where they pushed the champs as hard as anybody besides Case Western.  Not a bad season for a team just two years removed from 0-10, but again...a couple games below their projection.  Although, as I've said, I think Bethany and St. Vincent came up short of their projections mostly because Kickoff badly underestimated how good Case and Carnegie Mellon would be this year.

8. Geneva

Kickoff Projection: 5-5
Actual Record: 2-8
Season Highlights: 41-24 win over Waynesburg
Season Lowlights: 35-7 loss to Carnegie Mellon, 41-15 loss to Bethany, 32-0 loss to Westminster
Final Grade: D

I've listed Geneva above Waynesburg, even though Geneva only had 2 wins and Waynesburg had 3, because that's just a fluke of scheduling.  Geneva beat Waynesburg head to head, and that's about where the season peaked.  Bad losses to teams like CMU, Bethany, and Westminster – teams that they were supposed to be peers with – show that this was a very disappointing season.

9. Waynesburg

Kickoff Projection: 3-7
Actual Record: 3-7
Season Highlights: opening win over Muskingum
Season Lowlights: losses to most of their peers
Final Grade: C

So Kickoff actually saw this coming, I guess.  I did not.  Yuck.  Waynesburg went from beating W & J down to the bottom of the league in one season.  Really a disappointing year for what's traditionally a competitive team.

10. Thiel

Kickoff Projection: 3-7
Actual Record: 2-8
Season Highlights: wins over Allegheny and Grove City to start/finish the season
Season Lowlights: everything in between
Final Grade: D

Somebody has to finish near the bottom of the standings, but what's disconcerting is how badly they lost when they went down.  It's one thing to lose badly against the league's best, but Thiel was giving up 50 and 60 points almost every week and only played one remotely competitive loss...against Waynesburg, who was not so good themselves.  Hopefully they can step it up.

11. Grove City

Kickoff Projection: 3-7
Actual Record: 0-10
Season Highlights: some close losses
Season Lowlights: the bad losses
Final Grade: D-minus

Actually played some competitive games early (Geneva, St. Vincent, Waynesburg) and I thought they might beat Thiel, but it wasn't to be.  I think DiDonato officially takes the reins this coming year, so maybe that will give what's usually been an "OK" program historically a bit of a jolt from the 0-10 doldrums of the last two years.  It may be a tall order to contend for the league title at Grove City, but looking back through the archives Grove City usually hovered around the 5-5 mark give or take a few games.  It would be better for the league if they could get back to that form.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
W&L in round 1 rematch from 2010 and if we are lucky enough to advance AT Wabash on Thanksgiving Weekend.  I like their draw.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 16, 2015, 01:06:48 PM
Tartans will be playing Bridgewater State on Sunday at noon in an ECAC Bowl game.

Happy for the Tartans, but I am going to write the PAC league office to suggest a move similar to the MAC and Centennial Conference deciding to play their own bowl games this year.  Makes more sense than PAC schools going up to Connecticut, and it would be neat to have a regional rivalry with a league like the NCAC or OAC, staging a game or two for the highest-finishing team in each league that doesn't make the playoffs.  Would be a really good way for up-and-coming programs (and OAC teams stuck behind Mount Union) to have a little extra bonus at the end of a good season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 16, 2015, 05:43:00 PM
Saw the ECAC Bowl selections. Surprised to see both Westminister and CMU in and W&J not.

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 16, 2015, 05:46:38 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 16, 2015, 05:43:00 PM
Saw the ECAC Bowl selections. Surprised to see both Westminister and CMU in and W&J not.

Jeff in Tennessee

I don't think W & J applied?  In fact, I'm not sure W & J is even an ECAC member.

Nevertheless, I will contact the PAC office (and you should too!) about following the MAC-Centennial lead and setting up a season-ending bowl game between the PAC's highest non-playoff team and the OAC or NCAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 16, 2015, 06:17:28 PM
ExTartan,

According to the W&J web site they are ECAC members, participate in tournaments (eg cross country), and did play a postseason ECAC football game in 2010, beating F&M. Given W&J's unrealized expctations for this year, they may well have decided not to apply.

I'll think about your suggestion. If I follow it I may also contact W&J as well. Since there is already some cross ruffing during the regular season with the NCAC and OAC, how about an affiliation with the ODAC?

The only good news this postseason is my wife and I will not have to endure a Saturday after Thanksgiving like we did last year - freezing our butts off surrounded by Mount fans watching the Presidents get hammered.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 16, 2015, 06:25:55 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 16, 2015, 06:17:28 PM
I'll think about your suggestion. If I follow it I may also contact W&J as well. Since there is already some cross ruffing during the regular season with the NCAC and OAC, how about an affiliation with the ODAC?

Apologies, did not check to see that about the Prez.  I did not recall seeing them on the list of declared teams this year, so I'm sure that was it...I can't imagine CMU getting picked over W&J if the Prez had wanted the ECAC game.

Re: the ODAC, that's not a bad suggestion.  Some pretty long trips but most would be doable with an overnight stay...I think part of the attraction to the MAC-Centennial pairing is that those leagues are essentially on top of one another and most of their potential bowl pairings will not require overnights.  The PAC doesn't have a comparable partner quite like that.  I brought up the OAC and NCAC as the schools which seem to have the most overlap in geographic footprint, but you're right that an ODAC pairing would be fun and would create some new matchups between schools that do not play very frequently.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2015, 07:34:22 PM
W&J has 1st/2nd policy.  If team does not finish 1st/2nd in league standings, they are NOT going to ECAC games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 17, 2015, 04:58:56 PM
ExTartan,

I wrote to the PAC Commissioner and the W&J athletic Director along the lines we discussed here. Be interesting to see what we hear back. I wonder if they follow this site.


Bob, Thanks. I think that makes sense.

Jeff in Tennesse - where the Volunteers are bowl eligible!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 17, 2015, 06:09:20 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 17, 2015, 04:58:56 PM
ExTartan,

I wrote to the PAC Commissioner and the W&J athletic Director along the lines we discussed here. Be interesting to see what we hear back. I wonder if they follow this site.

I hope they're interested.

Here's the thing - I can understand that for the top two programs in any given conference, an idea like this can seem lame (most of the St. John Fisher guys on the Empire 8 board are like "Ugh, stupid ECAC games" whenever their team misses the playoffs, although this year they seem a bit happier about it after the team's rocky start).  But for most of the teams in the PAC, the playoffs are an absolute pipe dream (whether the kids will admit that or not).  Since the inception of D3football.com, only five of the PAC schools have been to the playoffs (TMC, W & J, Waynesburg, CMU, Case) and the CMU/Case berths all came before joining the PAC.  I genuinely think the chance to play in a "bowl game" of sorts would be interesting/enjoyable and might spur a little extra competition among the PAC's second-tier programs when they're having a good season.  The ECAC has been a fine mechanism for that, but I fear that with the MAC and Centennial dropping out this year, the ECAC is just going to disappea...even if it doesn't, CMU and Westminster are both going to have to drive 500+ miles to Connecticut to play in this year's bowl games.  I feel like developing a conference rivalry would be a little more fun.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 17, 2015, 06:24:36 PM
ExTartan,

Share your thoughts with The Commish and the CMU AD.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 17, 2015, 06:30:48 PM
Assuming you haven't already!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 17, 2015, 07:43:32 PM
Ex Tartan,

Already had a reply from the Commish.

"Ironically" he and the ADs had a meeting today where they discussed this at length.

Your PAC at work for you!

Jeff in Tennessee


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 21, 2015, 04:31:59 PM
Congrats to Thomas More; we're rooting for you.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 21, 2015, 04:59:58 PM
Good day for the PAC. Congrats to Thomas More & Westminister.

Good luck tomorrow, CMU. Bring home a win and a PAC sweep.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on November 21, 2015, 05:00:48 PM
Congrats Saints. That was a dominating performance and man do you guys have some good, big guys. Good luck next week, I'll be pulling for you.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2015, 06:01:03 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 17, 2015, 07:43:32 PM
Ex Tartan,

Already had a reply from the Commish.

"Ironically" he and the ADs had a meeting today where they discussed this at length.

Your PAC at work for you!

Jeff in Tennessee


Awesome!!

Also. Congrats to the Saints and the Titans!

Hoping the Tartans hold up their end of the bargain and make it a PAC sweep, indeed!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 22, 2015, 03:01:01 PM
Congrats to CMU for bringing home the PAC sweep! Good luck to TMC the rest of the way.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: desertcat1 on November 25, 2015, 12:04:56 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.  Safe travels.  :-*
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 28, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
Keep marching Saints!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on December 01, 2015, 01:06:19 PM
Snyder and Suren both named 1st team Academic All Americans!

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151201hzrs4y
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on December 01, 2015, 05:22:02 PM



Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on December 01, 2015, 01:06:19 PM
Snyder and Suren both named 1st team Academic All Americans!

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20151201hzrs4y

According to the PAC web site there were 4 others who received 2nd team recognition - 2 from CMU and one each from Grove City and W&J. Congrats to all!


Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 08, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
The All Regional Teams are out. 

Congrats to Regis Scafe on being named South Region Coach of the Year.  Erick Butler made the 2nd team defense and Goose Cohorn* was named to the Third Team at WR.  Both kids were senior captains and 4 year starters.  They'll be missed. 

*I have no idea how Goose Cohorn was not a 1st team WR.  There aren't 4 better WR's than him in the South Region.  I can concede Ramos from HSU with his big plays but Goose is better than the other three listed in front of him.  If you watched any of the TMC games and/or film, his hands and ability to break big plays jumps out at you.  Anyways, just wanted to go on record with this thought.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 08, 2015, 01:52:41 PM
Congratulations to Coach Scafe and Thomas More.

From CMU, Sam Benger was a first-team RB and Ted Garibaldi was a first-team OL (I imagine that blocking for a 2000 yard rusher helps get some attention to the OL...I maintain that my all-region selection occurred solely because of our two 1,000 yard backs), with Brian Khoury first team DL and Drew Fitzmorris a first-team DB.

Other notables around the PAC:

Rob Cuda (CWRU) third-team QB
Ryan Ruffing (W&J) third-team RB
Eric Blinn (Bethany) second-team WR
Goose Cohorn (TMC) third-team WR
Jake Henderson (TMC) third-team OL
Zach Crossey (W&J) first-team OL
Daniel Lis (W&J) third-team KR
Erick Butler (TMC) second-team DE
Mac Quinn (Westminster) third-team LB

A couple thoughts:

1) I agree that Goose Cohorn got robbed.  Goose was as good as it got around the country in D3 at the WR position. 

2) At first, even as a CMU fan, I blanched at us having four first-team guys (more than Thomas More and W&J had!) but I kind of understand it...if this makes any sense, CMU was kind of a top-heavy team this year: big star power with respectable-but-not-playoff-caliber guys around them.  Benger and Khoury are absolute studs, and I believe you could have swapped them in for starters on a whole bunch of playoff teams with no drop-off at all.  The overall record shows that TMC was definitely better, and W&J/Case/Westminster were all about as good, but I think those teams might've been a little deeper than the Tartans.  Kind of like a basketball team that has LeBron and Dwyane Wade and then a bunch of decent-sixth-men filling out the lineup.

Put another way, I don't like it when we look at individual post-season honors and just say "Team X is better than Team Y, so how did Team Y get more all-league picks than Team X?" because, after all, they are individual awards.  And anyone that watched CMU this year knows Benger and Khoury were studs to the nth degree.  So I'm ultimately OK with it.  But I would understand a little side-eye from a team like Washington & Lee (undefeated, with only one first-team pick) or UMHB saying "Really? Carnegie Mellon has four first-team guys?"
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GillCJ1 on December 08, 2015, 02:40:12 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 08, 2015, 01:52:41 PMPut another way, I don't like it when we look at individual post-season honors and just say "Team X is better than Team Y, so how did Team Y get more all-league picks than Team X?" because, after all, they are individual awards.  And anyone that watched CMU this year knows Benger and Khoury were studs to the nth degree.  So I'm ultimately OK with it.  But I would understand a little side-eye from a team like Washington & Lee (undefeated, with only one first-team pick) or UMHB saying "Really? Carnegie Mellon has four first-team guys?"

Eh... I don't speak for others, but I have zero issue with this.  As you said, these are INDIVIDUAL honors.  I was just happy to see Teidrick Smith get Defensive POY.

By the way, congrats to your boys for their selections!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 08, 2015, 03:55:56 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on December 08, 2015, 02:40:12 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 08, 2015, 01:52:41 PMPut another way, I don't like it when we look at individual post-season honors and just say "Team X is better than Team Y, so how did Team Y get more all-league picks than Team X?" because, after all, they are individual awards.  And anyone that watched CMU this year knows Benger and Khoury were studs to the nth degree.  So I'm ultimately OK with it.  But I would understand a little side-eye from a team like Washington & Lee (undefeated, with only one first-team pick) or UMHB saying "Really? Carnegie Mellon has four first-team guys?"

Eh... I don't speak for others, but I have zero issue with this.  As you said, these are INDIVIDUAL honors.  I was just happy to see Teidrick Smith get Defensive POY.

By the way, congrats to your boys for their selections!

Yeah, I know, and CMU was 8-3...it's not like they were garbage.  But I was on the opposite side of this in HS, playing for undefeated league champs and feeling like some of our guys didn't get their due while players from middling teams got recognition.  So I'd at least understand it if UMHB or W&L or some other really great team felt like they got the shaft with 1 or 2 of their best players not on the short list here while an 8-3 non-playoff team has four on the first team.

Benger and Khoury are kind of slam-dunk selections.  Benger was pretty dominant all year, even in losing efforts.  Khoury's final stat line (13.5 sacks, 19 TFL, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries) is pretty strong, too.  Fitzmorris had a great year but I was a little surprised by him being first-team all region.  And the center...I mean, it's hard to pick an All-Region center with a position that's so anonymous, especially in D3 ball, when there's so little common competition and exposure to other teams. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on December 08, 2015, 04:38:27 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on December 08, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
*I have no idea how Goose Cohorn was not a 1st team WR.  There aren't 4 better WR's than him in the South Region.  I can concede Ramos from HSU with his big plays but Goose is better than the other three listed in front of him.  If you watched any of the TMC games and/or film, his hands and ability to break big plays jumps out at you.  Anyways, just wanted to go on record with this thought.

I agree completely.  I guess they lost that lovin' feeling where Cohorn was concerned.  Really unfortunate- I thought Goose deserved 1st team there. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on December 08, 2015, 04:47:51 PM
W&L didn't really have stand out players. This year was a team effort in that a lot of guys were good, but no one really stood head and shoulders above the rest with "all star" stats. A good example is the rushing game. You'd think since we were tops in the country ypg we'd have a back that was considered for all region, but look at below.

Connor Chess 882 yards
Marshall Hollerith 850 yards
Charlie Nelson 755 yards
Walker Brand 682 yards
Duncan Maxwell 607

After that there were a few guys with 200+ on the season. So it was a ton of yards, but not one player generating them. We did have a Soph LB with 105 tackles, but after that there are a mess of guys with 60-80. So pretty spread out on the glory stats on both sides of the ball.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 08, 2015, 09:43:48 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 08, 2015, 01:52:41 PM
Congratulations to Coach Scafe and Thomas More.

From CMU, Sam Benger was a first-team RB and Ted Garibaldi was a first-team OL (I imagine that blocking for a 2000 yard rusher helps get some attention to the OL...I maintain that my all-region selection occurred solely because of our two 1,000 yard backs), with Brian Khoury first team DL and Drew Fitzmorris a first-team DB.

Well, ever since that questionable decision :) we've tried to improve our process on offensive linemen. I email every D-III head coach and ask them for their opinion on the best offensive linemen they faced or saw on video. It definitely helps because there aren't statistics consistently kept for linemen, etc.

Similarly we ask them about cornerbacks -- who are the guys that they throw away from? Sometimes the guys with few interceptions are actually the best ones.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 09, 2015, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 08, 2015, 09:43:48 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 08, 2015, 01:52:41 PM
Congratulations to Coach Scafe and Thomas More.

From CMU, Sam Benger was a first-team RB and Ted Garibaldi was a first-team OL (I imagine that blocking for a 2000 yard rusher helps get some attention to the OL...I maintain that my all-region selection occurred solely because of our two 1,000 yard backs), with Brian Khoury first team DL and Drew Fitzmorris a first-team DB.

Well, ever since that questionable decision :) we've tried to improve our process on offensive linemen. I email every D-III head coach and ask them for their opinion on the best offensive linemen they faced or saw on video. It definitely helps because there aren't statistics consistently kept for linemen, etc.

Similarly we ask them about cornerbacks -- who are the guys that they throw away from? Sometimes the guys with few interceptions are actually the best ones.

That's really impressive dedication to getting the picks right (or at least as right as you can get them; even after playing offensive line for a very, very long time, I can't say that I could watch a game and always clearly identify the best guy on each OL).  Kudos to you guys for doing the work.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 10, 2015, 03:23:25 AM
So I have a question for any of you DIII history buffs out there -- 1984 Season:

Case Western Reserve (9-0) defeats Washington and Jefferson (8-1) by a score of 34-16. 

Anyone know why Washington and Jefferson made the DIII playoffs that season and not Case Western Reserve?

Here is the 1984 DIII playoff bracket: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NCAA_Division_III_football_season#Conference_champions

Case Western Reserve football record:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn6hpx03ymdjm9j/12-10-2015%2012-19-59%20AM.jpg?dl=0
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on December 10, 2015, 08:27:32 AM
Because those were the bad old days of smoky rooms and back room deals...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2015, 12:37:07 PM
Quote from: E.115 on December 10, 2015, 03:23:25 AM
So I have a question for any of you DIII history buffs out there -- 1984 Season:

Case Western Reserve (9-0) defeats Washington and Jefferson (8-1) by a score of 34-16. 

Anyone know why Washington and Jefferson made the DIII playoffs that season and not Case Western Reserve?

Here is the 1984 DIII playoff bracket: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NCAA_Division_III_football_season#Conference_champions

Case Western Reserve football record:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn6hpx03ymdjm9j/12-10-2015%2012-19-59%20AM.jpg?dl=0
Quote from: jknezek on December 10, 2015, 08:27:32 AM
Because those were the bad old days of smoky rooms and back room deals...
+1!  The current arrangement gives every team a chance at the title!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 10, 2015, 04:16:39 PM
Well darn. I was kind of hoping for a better explanation.  Thanks gentlemen!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on December 10, 2015, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: E.115 on December 10, 2015, 03:23:25 AM
So I have a question for any of you DIII history buffs out there -- 1984 Season:

Case Western Reserve (9-0) defeats Washington and Jefferson (8-1) by a score of 34-16. 

Anyone know why Washington and Jefferson made the DIII playoffs that season and not Case Western Reserve?

Here is the 1984 DIII playoff bracket: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NCAA_Division_III_football_season#Conference_champions

Case Western Reserve football record:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn6hpx03ymdjm9j/12-10-2015%2012-19-59%20AM.jpg?dl=0

I could be making things up here, but:

- In 1984 they were still picking just 8 teams total and, I believe, it was specifically 2 teams per geographic region.
- If we look at the bracket, you've got Union/Plymouth State (East), Augustana/Dayton (North), W&J/Randolph-Macon (South), Central/Occidental (West). 
- CWRU would have needed to be one of the best two teams in the North region...so they were never really competing for a spot in the tournament with W&J directly. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on December 10, 2015, 07:43:25 PM
That seems like a much better explanation.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on February 04, 2016, 02:08:54 AM
Neat to see next year's freshman already getting announced across the country today.

I've seen a few PAC schools listed browsing the "signings" lists

A quick google for Case Western Reserve so far:

Justin Friedsam WR/DB (6-2, 185) - Menlo-Atherton (Atherton, CA)
Mario Robaina RB/CB - Belen Jesuit (Miami, FL)
Brett Marcus OLB/TE - Science Hill (Johnson City, TN)
Avery Abraham SS/RB - Mason (Mason, OH)
Conner Hall WR (6-2, 185) - Blue Valley Northwest (Overland Park, KS)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 04, 2016, 10:55:29 AM
Add

Kevin Chrissis    CB/WR   5-10   188     Upper St Clair PA
Patrick Crossey S/WR   6-1   190    Pittsburgh PA (Plum)
Julian Kinard   QB/CB   6-0   170     Damascus MD   QB-ed state champ team
Austin Navarette   WR   6-2   200     Ft Worth TX (Northwest)
Spiros Romell      G           6-4   260    North Olmsted OH


Update -- another from Cali

Reed Gershenson G/DT   6-2   250  San Juan Capistrano CA (JSerra)

Nine Eleven from seven eight different states from Florida to California.  To my recollection those would be the first from Tennessee or Kansas.

Last year there was only one commit announced on "signing day."

In other Spartan news:

DB coach Rodrik David has taken a scouting assistant job with the Atlanta Falcons.

New Eastern Kentucky HC Mark Elder (2000) has three other former Spartans on his staff, OC Angelo Miranda (2008), TE/OTs Tommy Zagorski (2007), and RBs Greg Meyer (2010).

I also saw a tweet about new concept unis for 2016.




Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 13, 2016, 10:02:10 AM
Looks like there will not be a ninth conf game in the near future as CMU has scheduled Claremont-Mudd-Scrips and Rochester for 2018-2019.  Also MIT for 2020-2021.

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20160205jmat5c

I'd like to see CWRU and CMU set up a rotation opening the season with either WUStL, Chicago, or Rochester.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on February 26, 2016, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 13, 2016, 10:02:10 AM
Looks like there will not be a ninth conf game in the near future as CMU has scheduled Claremont-Mudd-Scrips and Rochester for 2018-2019.  Also MIT for 2020-2021.

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20160205jmat5c

I'd like to see CWRU and CMU set up a rotation opening the season with either WUStL, Chicago, or Rochester.

I spoke to our AD and HC about this a few weeks ago.  I don't know if it will happen with the former UAA schools specifically, but I do know that the CMU athletic director mentioned that he was/is committed to making sure that the CMU team gets at least one "trip" game a year...his feeling was that since the rest of the CMU teams (still competing in the UAA) will always get road trips to a nice cast of cities, he wanted to make sure that the football team still got to travel a bit, now that all of the conference games are within driving distance.  Hence the motivation for CMS and MIT.

Of course, if the PAC mandated a ninth league game, perhaps CMU would drop those games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 28, 2016, 11:20:42 AM
Three more Spartan commits (two more states heard from):

Aedan Ayer       OT/NT  6'2 265  Fairfield CT Prep
Ryan Coolidge    QB      6'3185  Chicago IL St Ignatius
Derek Clontz      OT      6'4 270  Imperial PA West Allegheny  All State HM also two hoops letters (usually a sign of good mobility)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 14, 2016, 03:38:39 AM
ADL70,

Is it that we're moving to nine conference games, or that we'll stick to eight and now have two truly "at large" non-conference games?

One thing's for sure.  If we do move to nine conference games, and have only one "intersectional" game per season, then I'd make certain that it is a "destination" game to either a service academy (Merchant Marine or Coast Guard), an elite academic school (like MIT), or perhaps a historical local rival like Oberlin or Kenyon.

As much as I'd like to see our fellow UAA members stay on the schedule, it now appears that the UAA is going to stop sponsoring football competition.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on March 14, 2016, 06:18:54 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on February 26, 2016, 01:00:40 PM
Of course, if the PAC mandated a ninth league game, perhaps CMU would drop those games.
The League agreed to this schedule formula when CWRU & CMU returned.
That's not changing unless the PAC adds teams and goes to a Conference Championship game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on March 15, 2016, 03:12:01 PM
So now I'm confused.  Does CMU and CWRU have to play 9 conference games after 2018?  Or can they keep the 8 game format?

I agree I would like to see CWRU have a "destination" game.  Or perhaps renew a local rivalry, such as the "Baird Brother" rivalry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baird_Brothers_Trophy
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 15, 2016, 04:51:17 PM
I thought I was clear when I wrote "there will not be a ninth conf game anytime soon."
I haven't read anywhere that Chicago has found a conference, so unless and until they do, they should be looking for games. Both OAC & NCAC only have one non-conf game and they tend to be played week one.  BW is the only exception that comes to mind.

Bob, what has changed is that after 2017 CWRU & CMU no longer have UAA commitments.  Since almost every other team has been playing a conference team as a non-conference game, I thought there might be a movement to add a ninth conference game.  Perhaps those teams have found outside opponents for the future already.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 15, 2016, 05:45:06 PM
OK.

Well, then perhaps Chicago can remain as one of our "intersectional" games and become a sort of north coast regional rivalry.

That would still leave one other spot as either a "destination" or "local rivalry" game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 06, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
Three more self-reported Spartan commits:

Josh Schlicting  OT/DT 6'2 255 Upper St. Clair PA
Isaac Withrow    ILB    6'0  225   Winfield WV
Adam Zybko        TE   6'4 205     West Glenbard IL

17 commits from 11 different states. I expect greater than an equal number to commit over the next four weeks.  Just as the new stadium in 2005 ushered in playoff years, I anticipate that the opening of the Wyant Athletic Center with Belichick Weight Room last fall will also give recruiting a boost.

So should these new unis:

https://www.facebook.com/CWRUFootball/photos/pb.435399356556187.-2207520000.1459917524./964906550272129/?type=3&theater


   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on April 07, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
Pat, Case Western Reserve team page on d3football.com hasn't had the "past records" tab populated/linked for the 2015 season.  I only mention this as 2016 schedule is already posted: http://www.d3football.com/teams/Case_Western_Reserve/2016/index

---

ADL70, more nice finds.  Doing some searching, Withrow was a 2-year captain and Zybko looks like he reproduced at TE.

Like you stated, it seems like sooner commitments and higher initial numbers than normally at this point.  What have the average freshman classes size been over the past few years? 

Any estimate of an average class freshmen class sizes for upper DIII programs?  40+?



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2016, 10:38:35 PM
Quote from: E.115 on April 07, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
Pat, Case Western Reserve team page on d3football.com hasn't had the "past records" tab populated/linked for the 2015 season.  I only mention this as 2016 schedule is already posted: http://www.d3football.com/teams/Case_Western_Reserve/2016/index

---

ADL70, more nice finds.  Doing some searching, Withrow was a 2-year captain and Zybko looks like he reproduced at TE.

Like you stated, it seems like sooner commitments and higher initial numbers than normally at this point.  What have the average freshman classes size been over the past few years? 

Any estimate of an average class freshmen class sizes for upper DIII programs?  40+?

Yep, there's a few like that. We'll get them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 08, 2016, 12:04:16 PM
Now a kicker:

JT Kolderup Palatine IL (Fremd) a lot of TBs in his highlights, but hs is five yards closer and use an inch higher tee. Strong leg though.

CWRU's classes have ranged from 29 to 45 the last few years.  Most ever was 51 about twelve years ago.

The top programs like Mt Union or UMHB bring in upwards of a hundred.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mustang on April 09, 2016, 01:09:25 PM
Quality, not quantity my friend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 09, 2016, 01:24:45 PM
Quote from: mustang on April 09, 2016, 01:09:25 PM
Quality, not quantity my friend.

Absolutely!  No matter how big the class no more than about twenty will have a significant role. 30-40 is about right.

Good to hear from you. Glad you still follow. Hope all is well with you and yours.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on April 09, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
Around 30-40 is a healthy number of recruits for the "average" Division 3 program.  Of course having some "quality" matters more than sheer quantity, but any less than 30 in a class makes me worry about depth.  Bringing in 40 new faces per year is a nice number because (given the normal attrition at a D3 program) that still generally translates to a total roster size over 100.  I think a roster with 40 incoming freshmen, 30 sophomores, 25 juniors, and 20 seniors is a nice mix to have.  As noted, some programs bring in a whole lot more than that.  Pretty amazing that some schools sustain a roster with up to 100 incoming freshmen and 200+ total players annually.

Probably worth putting out there, for fun, a few general comments here on why I want the roster to have at least 100 guys:

1) Let's assume that my team starts practice with some warmups, skill work, and individual position drills, then conducts the latter half of practice for "team" work.  There might be a little bit of 1st-offense-vs-1st-defense, but the truth is that isn't really helpful for game preparation; it's just good for some competitive juices and fun, but playing against your own 1st-team defense isn't much help preparing for next week's game if your defense is an odd-man front and next week's opponent plays an even front.  So let's assume that we split the offense and defense for that team session.

2) Most programs will want to have more than just the 1st team getting reps.  A common model is alternating plays for the 1st team and 2nd team, allowing everyone on the two deep to get a good number of reps in (and also giving some flexibility to send the 2nd team QB in with the first offense for a few plays, maybe rotate a couple of your promising freshmen in with the 2nd team to see if they need some more run, etc). 

So...if I've got my 1st offense and 2nd offense, that's 22 guys (and of course the 1st and 2nd team defense practicing at the opposite end of the field, so double it, that brings us to 44 guys).  Plus I might want to keep a few "extras" to rotate in - maybe the third QB, a bonus WR or RB if we have any gadget plays or special formations, maybe an extra TE to practice the goal-line package; defense might want to have a few extra DL's for the goal-line package, a few extra DB's to practice nickel and dime looks, etc.  So let's round up and say we have 5 "extras" on top of the first 22 at each end; now we're up to 54 guys.  Of course, I need someone to line up across from them and run the opposition's plays.  Congratulations, incoming freshmen, welcome to the scout team.  I'll need at least 11 warm bodies to make a scout team for each side = 22 more bodies = 76 guys.  Plus, I really need more than just 11 guys to make the scout team, because the poor freshmen aren't going to last if they have to run every single play against the 1's and the 2's, so let's say I need at least 5-6 extra bodies for each scout team, and we're pushing 90.  Account for some specialists (kickers!) and the inevitable handful of walking wounded / medical redshirts, and that's why I'm always hoping to keep the magic number for roster size around 100.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on April 11, 2016, 07:36:43 AM
Quote from: E.115 on April 07, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
ADL70, more nice finds.  Doing some searching, Withrow was a 2-year captain and Zybko looks like he reproduced at TE.

So he has a child or multiple childs (re:  children) from HS?  I don't understand the TE distinction though unless this is Case code of some sort?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on April 11, 2016, 08:41:33 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on April 11, 2016, 07:36:43 AM
Quote from: E.115 on April 07, 2016, 04:55:07 PM
ADL70, more nice finds.  Doing some searching, Withrow was a 2-year captain and Zybko looks like he reproduced at TE.

So he has a child or multiple childs (re:  children) from HS?  I don't understand the TE distinction though unless this is Case code of some sort?

hmm....perhaps spell check didn't catch that one for me...

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 13, 2016, 01:32:37 PM
Kolderup kicked a 52 yarder in a game last season (with tee).  Here's a video of him kicking 40, 45, and 50 yarders in practice -- no tee, but perfect hold and no rush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNWcUPtWKDM

Two more commits per twitter:

Jeremy Hill        S      5'9  165    Erie PA Cathedral Prep
Chase Strayer  C/OT  6'2 250     Mentor    2nd team NELakes District 

To XTP's roster size point and addressing a post by from the end of last season, in which he stated that he counted only 76 on the Spartan's roster, I'm not sure where he was looking, but there are 86 listed on the website roster and just shy of 100 reported to camp.  As to his point re depth and injuries, there were several other injury losses an OT who started seven games in 2014 was lost after game one and his replacement was a converted senior DE, and he is the only player lost from the OL, which had a first team all-PAC center and two HM.   In addition a senior CB missed the last five games.  It was his replacement, a sophomore, who had the three picks vs WashU.

While there will be a lot lost from the D, three DB starters return, including a 2nd team PAC CB and HM S, as does one OLB.  In addition, a lot of underclass linemen and LBs rotated in with the starters in a number of games and not just in mop-up time.

Addendum:

Yet another

Brandon Rabah.   RB.  5'9 205.   Cincinnati Moeller

I also saw a hoops commit, the first athletes I can recall from that school with a rich athletic tradition.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on April 27, 2016, 01:41:47 PM
So is Spring ball/practice going on right now?  Or is it already over?

I know, I know...it's only April and I'm excited for next year...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 27, 2016, 03:42:01 PM
Already over- -began March 18. Finals this week. Hopefully we'll see full recruiting class within a week or so.

Chicago has already posted theirs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on May 02, 2016, 07:57:36 AM
I don't mind that Thomas More has quality all throughout their 60 kid freshman classes... Helps develop depth. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 04, 2016, 03:05:19 PM
CWRU released its 29 player class today.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20160504k9qagm

Lots of beef for the O-line.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 04, 2016, 05:21:06 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on May 04, 2016, 03:05:19 PM
CWRU released its 29 player class today.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20160504k9qagm

Lots of beef for the O-line.

Gotta protect Cuda for 2 more years!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 05, 2016, 04:37:07 AM
Check out the video on WR Austin Navarette from TX.

http://recruit-match.ncsasports.org/clientrms/athletes/1503391?access_type=COACH_QUERY (http://recruit-match.ncsasports.org/clientrms/athletes/1503391?access_type=COACH_QUERY)

Says he's 6'3", 200, and 4.5 sec. 40 time with a 32 on his ACT.

How does someone with those numbers not get picked up by a Stanford, Northwestern, or Duke?  That type of size and forty time, if accurate, is usually Division I-FBS level.

In his video, he looks like a STUD!!!!

I hope we can figure out ways to have Cuda get the ball in this guy's hands several times per game!  He looks absolutely DEADLY after the catch!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 05, 2016, 11:35:44 PM
Quote from: E.115 on May 04, 2016, 05:21:06 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on May 04, 2016, 03:05:19 PM
CWRU released its 29 player class today.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20160504k9qagm

Lots of beef for the O-line.

Gotta protect Cuda for 2 more years!

OL already looks good for next two years. Six returnees have at least five starts each and four received postseason recognition.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2016, 07:11:39 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on May 05, 2016, 04:37:07 AM
Check out the video on WR Austin Navarette from TX.

http://recruit-match.ncsasports.org/clientrms/athletes/1503391?access_type=COACH_QUERY (http://recruit-match.ncsasports.org/clientrms/athletes/1503391?access_type=COACH_QUERY)

Says he's 6'3", 200, and 4.5 sec. 40 time with a 32 on his ACT.

How does someone with those numbers not get picked up by a Stanford, Northwestern, or Duke?  That type of size and forty time, if accurate, is usually Division I-FBS level.

In his video, he looks like a STUD!!!!

I hope we can figure out ways to have Cuda get the ball in this guy's hands several times per game!  He looks absolutely DEADLY after the catch!
Justin Northwest HS is a good area and the school is 5A out of 6 classifications (About 2600 pupils in the top 4 grades).

He can play.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 13, 2016, 06:26:21 PM
Quote from: E.115 on April 27, 2016, 01:41:47 PM
So is Spring ball/practice going on right now?  Or is it already over?

I know, I know...it's only April and I'm excited for next year...

First practice is August 14.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 16, 2016, 02:26:20 PM
Check it out--a US college football map from 1938.  On the map are three PAC programs with long, storied histories:

Washington and Jefferson
[Case] Western Reserve
Carnegie Tech (Mellon)

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_vault/2014/11/07/LgCollegeFootballMap.jpg

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 16, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
Interesting. I suspect the map looked quite different 10 years later. I know W&J would not be there as they had deemphasized football by then.

W&J recently announced that 45 members football team will be going to Italy to tour the country and play a game against an Italian team.  Great opportunity for them! Here is the link

http://gopresidents.com/news/2016/5/11/w-j-football-heading-to-italy-at-the-end-of-may.aspx

Regards,

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on June 14, 2016, 10:39:35 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on May 16, 2016, 03:11:50 PM
W&J recently announced that 45 members football team will be going to Italy to tour the country and play a game against an Italian team.  Great opportunity for them! Here is the link

http://gopresidents.com/news/2016/5/11/w-j-football-heading-to-italy-at-the-end-of-may.aspx

Haven't checked the boards much in the offseason, so I just saw this, but that's pretty cool.

One of the fun things about D3 football, IMO.  I know that international travel is expensive so this is off the menu for many programs (unless they do their own fundraising for the trip), but it seems like a really cool way to get some cultural experience for the kids who can make the trip.  Surely one of the Case guys will remind me, didn't they do something similar in the last couple years?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 14, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Yes CWRU went to Italy last summer.  Per Spartan Mom whose son participated, the players had to pay their own way.  Spartans Men's Soccer went to Brazil this summer as has Men's Basketball in the past.  I believe such trips can be mad once every four years per NCAA rules.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 19, 2016, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on June 14, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Yes CWRU went to Italy last summer.  Per Spartan Mom whose son participated, the players had to pay their own way.  Spartans Men's Soccer went to Brazil this summer as has Men's Basketball in the past.  I believe such trips can be mad once every four years per NCAA rules.

It's every three years, but yes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mustang on June 26, 2016, 05:16:57 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on June 14, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Yes CWRU went to Italy last summer.  Per Spartan Mom whose son participated, the players had to pay their own way.  Spartans Men's Soccer went to Brazil this summer as has Men's Basketball in the past.  I believe such trips can be mad once every four years per NCAA rules.

On the Case website I see only 4 assistant coaches. Is that correct?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 26, 2016, 07:01:48 PM
There are at least four more.  Look for PM.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 02, 2016, 10:39:44 PM
The four additional coaches are now listed: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/coaches/index
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 12, 2016, 01:20:15 PM
Spartans have added SO  DE Cameron Brown to the roster.  He is son of former Cavs coach, Mike Brown. Haven't found that he played anywhere last year, but he was NE Lakes Dist 2nd team his senior year at Westlake HS.

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/1486189/5721c39c0428ae20e4bcab92  Looks quick.  On two plays he runs down a RB from behind way downfield.


http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/roster?view=list

Reportedly CWRU had 83 prospects from 13 states at its camp over the weekend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on July 13, 2016, 09:50:32 AM
Preseason honors are obviously less important than post-season honors, but kudos to three CMU players who have received preseason All-America recognition based on stellar 2015 performances.  Here's hoping for a repeat from these three.

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20160628gdm4tl
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 19, 2016, 06:44:07 PM
Not sure if I saw the right list, but it looks as though this could be a BANNER year for the Presidents' Athletic Conference.

Thomas More is ranked, and W&J, CWRU, and CMU are all in "others receiving votes," assuming it's the right list.

I'm still hoping that CWRU can have a breakthrough year.  It's been a long playoff drought.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 20, 2016, 11:39:54 AM
This one?

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2016/preseason

Over 50 teams received votes.

Schedule favors CWRU who play neither TMC nor W&J While the other contenders (those two plus CMU and Westminster all play each other)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 20, 2016, 07:10:09 PM
That means that the Academic Bowl could decide a conference title and playoff berth, if all the cards fall just right.

How KEWL would that be?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 21, 2016, 07:58:28 PM
The "Big 5" in the conference next year?

- Thomas More
- Washington and Jefferson
- Carnegie Mellon
- Case Western Reserve
- Westminster
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on July 22, 2016, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: E.115 on July 21, 2016, 07:58:28 PM
The "Big 5" in the conference next year?

- Thomas More
- Washington and Jefferson
- Carnegie Mellon
- Case Western Reserve
- Westminster

Based on last year, those would seem to be the five strongest contenders.

Thomas More certainly stands one notch above the rest; the next four all have a who-beat-who thing going on (W & J beat CMU, who beat Case Western, who beat W & J...Westminster beat CMU, who beat Case Western, who beat W & J, who beat Westminster...and around and around we go).

I haven't looked into the other teams enough to see who has "the most" coming back, but all I can say is that you never really know with this stuff - entering last season, CMU was coming off a four-win 2014 season that included a hearty dose of luck (two 1-point wins and a last-second-FG-win over Westminster that only happened because of a 15-yard penalty with no time on the clock).  We had found something in Benger toward the end of the season, so I was quietly optimistic, but still an 8-3 season seemed wildly out of range until a) Sam Benger started tossing up 200-yards-a-game and b) the rest of the team started to rise around him.

CMU looks to have a pretty nice group back.  Offensively, 2000-yard RB Benger (and all other RB's behind him), WR Prather (46-718-7 last year), TE/H-Back Cree, and a couple of starting linemen (Reid and Nealley both entering their third year as starters).  They'll be breaking in a new QB, presumably junior Bryan Jangro, who does have one career start to his name from 2014 plus some nice work in limited relief action last year.  Defensively, they return lots of experience (14 of 18 guys with 15+ tackles last year are back), including star DE Brian Khoury and S Drew Fitzmorris.  Should be putting someone with a decent amount of game experience on the field at just about every slot.  Breaking in a new QB is always a little unpredictable, so the offensive line will have to keep him clean & give Benger some running lanes to put Jangro in position to succeed.  If that happens, and we find another productive WR to line up across from returning stalwart Prather, it could be a nice season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 22, 2016, 07:33:05 PM
Can't speak for all of the returnees, but having Cuda back at QB is big.

He appears to be one of those Dan Whalen type players that can almost carry the rest of the team on his back.

I'm hoping that we can turn the corner.  But those other teams will also be stout and tough to beat.

Query: Suppose CWRU doesn't make the DIII playoffs, but does get one of those Division III "bowl" bids.  Would that officially count as our second bowl, after Western Reserve's win over Arizona State in the 1941 Sun Bowl?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 22, 2016, 07:53:43 PM
Out of curiosity, has the PAC already had its football media days, or is that coming up?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 23, 2016, 08:44:47 AM
PAC media day is 10-14 days off - first week of August.

Dave DiCarlo who mentored Whalen has returned as QB coach.

Those bowls are for ECAC, which CWRU does not belong to, to my knowledge.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 24, 2016, 02:26:44 PM
PAC Media Day is August 3rd at St. Vincent College.

The buffet lunch will begin at 11:30 a.m. in the atrium of the Sis and Herman Dupré Science Pavilion. Our Q&A sessions with each PAC head coach and student-athlete representative are scheduled to begin at 12:30 p.m. in the Dr. Frank Luparello Lecture Hall (adjacent to the atrium), with coaches and student-athletes being available to media at approximately 2:15 p.m. That afternoon, the Pittsburgh Steelers preseason practice session is scheduled to begin at 2:55 p.m. Sideline pass(es) will be made available to media members that register for PAC Football Media Day.

Upon arrival, a Saint Vincent shuttle will be available to take you from the parking lot of the Fred Rogers Center to the Dupré Science Pavilion.

2016 PAC Football Media Day school representatives:
Bethany College: Head coach Bill Garvey, senior defensive back Aaron Frye (Vandergrift, Pa. / Kiski Area)
Carnegie Mellon University: Head coach Rich Lackner, senior running back Zach Cree (Vanderbilt, Pa. / Connellsville Area)
Case Western Reserve University: Head coach Greg Debeljak, senior tight end Zech Medved (Imperial, Pa. / West Allegheny)
Geneva College: Head coach Geno DeMarco, senior linebacker Jimmy Quinlan (Brookfield, Ohio / Brookfield)
Grove City College: Head coach Andrew DiDonato, senior wide receiver Brett Pinson (Canton, Ohio / Jackson)
Saint Vincent College: Head coach Dr. Ron Dolciato, senior running back Shavonta Craft (Jeannette, Pa. / Jeannette)
Thiel College: Head coach Dan Blume, junior running back Justin Zinsmeister (Pittsburgh, Pa. / Baldwin)
Thomas More College: Head coach Regis Scafe, junior running back C.T. Tarrant (Hamilton, Ohio / Hamilton)
Washington & Jefferson College: Head coach Mike Sirianni, senior quarterback Pete Coughlin (Pittsburgh, Pa. / Upper St. Clair)
Waynesburg University: Head coach Rick Shepas, senior wide receiver Kevin Barnes, Jr. (Kittanning, Pa. / Kittanning)
Westminster College: Head coach Scott Benzel, senior linebacker Mac Quinn (Pittsburgh, Pa. / Northgate)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 30, 2016, 10:56:45 PM
CWRU preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20160730jy3i85
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 31, 2016, 06:22:46 PM
Agreed.

"The strength of the top level of the conference can match up with many of the top leagues in the country," said Debeljak.  "The fact that five teams were in the [D3football.com] preseason poll tells you a lot about the respect the conference has around the country.  The PAC is a talented, deep conference."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 05, 2016, 02:51:42 PM
I just saw today that Case had added a transfer from the University of Minnesota (that's right, the B1G!!!) to its defensive backfield.  He's a graduate student at Case, and played three years for the Golden Gophers, earning academic all B1G honors.

I'm assuming that we should pencil him in as a starter, right?

This season could be special!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 08, 2016, 09:25:43 AM
There is an opening at safety with graduation of Esteban. [edit]  he even has Esteban's #21

His hs coach Jim Stphens is now a CWRU assistant.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 08, 2016, 02:54:27 PM
^Yep, sounds like Case Western Reserve found their man to fill in the secondary gap of losing Esteban.

McKelvey will join a Spartans' defensive backfield that already features a pair of returning All-Presidents' Athletic Conference selections in senior cornerback Nick Kwon and junior safety Cody Calhoun.


CWRU Football Adds Former Minnesota Gopher & University School Standout McKelvey


http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20160805k317i6
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2016, 03:22:01 PM
From what I understand, Thomas More has had a VERY successful recruiting season.  Taking advantage of the most recent success and location of the program, they have 89 NEWCOMERS reporting to camp.  Now, you expect they'll have about 8-10 who don't report and/or quit during the Preseason.  But that is an astronomical number of newcomers.  There are a few transfers in this list as well both from the Division and Upper Divisions.  I hear there are some real impact Freshman coming in.  As a result, there is incredible depth and skill at the RB, WR, DL, LB and DB positions. 

Two keys to this season for Coach Scafe and his team;

1.  Need to replace 3 starting OL.  Otis Miller returns to help anchor the OL. 
2.  Keep Brenan Kuntz upright and healthy.  The kid has more athletic ability than the Saints are used to at the position.  He's a budding star. 

Ranked #11 in the D3 Poll and opening the season at Franklin, this team will be tested early in the season.  The best 5 teams on the schedule are in the first 5 weeks of the year. 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2016, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 22, 2016, 07:33:05 PM
Can't speak for all of the returnees, but having Cuda back at QB is big.

He appears to be one of those Dan Whalen type players that can almost carry the rest of the team on his back.

I'm hoping that we can turn the corner.  But those other teams will also be stout and tough to beat.

Query: Suppose CWRU doesn't make the DIII playoffs, but does get one of those Division III "bowl" bids.  Would that officially count as our second bowl, after Western Reserve's win over Arizona State in the 1941 Sun Bowl?

I don't think you should be comparing him to Whalen yet.  He's started 1 season.  How long was Whalen under center?  I think we'll find out alot more this year about Cuda.  To me, he's going to miss his big target in #1 (WR) and will have to adjust to not having him.  The last time I saw him, he was very athletic but this also got him into some trouble against Thomas More.  Two of the turnovers and 9 of the points were related to this.

I spoke highly of him on the Pat's podcast after the game but I also said TMC's defense got after him and forced TO's.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on August 08, 2016, 04:03:55 PM
The playoff selection nerd in me is super interested in the PAC this season.  I know I'm putting the cart way before the horse here, but how does the PAC deal with two undefeated league teams?  Should we get that far, how is the South RAC going to treat CWRU as opposed to single loss teams in other conferences that lost only to their league champion?  Or even to a single loss SCAC team?  The PAC is at the center of the Pool C storm this year and this is going to be fun to revisit in the last couple of weeks of the season should you all steam ahead toward dual undefeated league champions. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 09, 2016, 09:10:57 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2016, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 22, 2016, 07:33:05 PM
Can't speak for all of the returnees, but having Cuda back at QB is big.

He appears to be one of those Dan Whalen type players that can almost carry the rest of the team on his back.

I'm hoping that we can turn the corner.  But those other teams will also be stout and tough to beat.

Query: Suppose CWRU doesn't make the DIII playoffs, but does get one of those Division III "bowl" bids.  Would that officially count as our second bowl, after Western Reserve's win over Arizona State in the 1941 Sun Bowl?

I don't think you should be comparing him to Whalen yet.  He's started 1 season.  How long was Whalen under center?  I think we'll find out alot more this year about Cuda.  To me, he's going to miss his big target in #1 (WR) and will have to adjust to not having him.  The last time I saw him, he was very athletic but this also got him into some trouble against Thomas More.  Two of the turnovers and 9 of the points were related to this.

I spoke highly of him on the Pat's podcast after the game but I also said TMC's defense got after him and forced TO's.

Even during Whalen's first season, you could tell he was special.

Same for Cuda.  Similar level of dominance.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 10, 2016, 12:17:28 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on August 09, 2016, 09:10:57 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2016, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 22, 2016, 07:33:05 PM
Can't speak for all of the returnees, but having Cuda back at QB is big.

He appears to be one of those Dan Whalen type players that can almost carry the rest of the team on his back.

I'm hoping that we can turn the corner.  But those other teams will also be stout and tough to beat.

Query: Suppose CWRU doesn't make the DIII playoffs, but does get one of those Division III "bowl" bids.  Would that officially count as our second bowl, after Western Reserve's win over Arizona State in the 1941 Sun Bowl?

I don't think you should be comparing him to Whalen yet.  He's started 1 season.  How long was Whalen under center?  I think we'll find out alot more this year about Cuda.  To me, he's going to miss his big target in #1 (WR) and will have to adjust to not having him.  The last time I saw him, he was very athletic but this also got him into some trouble against Thomas More.  Two of the turnovers and 9 of the points were related to this.

I spoke highly of him on the Pat's podcast after the game but I also said TMC's defense got after him and forced TO's.

Even during Whalen's first season, you could tell he was special.

Same for Cuda.  Similar level of dominance.

I'm going to disagree. 

I don't think its necessarily a bad thing to not put Cuda in the same space as Whalen yet. 

I just know from talking to Pat, it seemed like he got away with alot against Washington U and I know what I saw doesn't really compute with Whalen's ability.

EDIT:  In other words, I feel like Thomas More gets beat last year in Cleveland if Whalen were the QB.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on August 10, 2016, 01:42:19 PM
Dan Whalen was 31-3 with three tournament appearances in his Soph-Senior seasons.  He did not have to get through the PAC to make those tournaments, but still, he strung together three straight 10-0 regular seasons which is pretty incredible regardless of the schedule.  This may be Cuda's best shot at 10-0.  If he doesn't get there this year, I don't know where else a Cuda-or-Whalen conversation could reasonably go. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 11, 2016, 06:28:43 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2016, 03:22:01 PM
From what I understand, Thomas More has had a VERY successful recruiting season.  Taking advantage of the most recent success and location of the program, they have 89 NEWCOMERS reporting to camp.  Now, you expect they'll have about 8-10 who don't report and/or quit during the Preseason.  But that is an astronomical number of newcomers.  There are a few transfers in this list as well both from the Division and Upper Divisions.  I hear there are some real impact Freshman coming in.  As a result, there is incredible depth and skill at the RB, WR, DL, LB and DB positions. 


Feel free to send some of these newcomers up north to Cleveland if you don't end up needing them...Case Western Reserve has 1/3 of these numbers!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 11, 2016, 06:45:47 PM
Whalen and Cuda were each 3rd team region as sophs.  I would say that they have similar but somewhat different skill sets.  Cuda was leading rusher something Whalen never did. Whalen had the advantage of the same core players around him for 3-4 years.  He also had the intangible - he [nearly] always found a way to win. He also had the advantage of playing his whole freshman season. Cuda loses 2 top receivers and RB is a ? with Hochman and Canganelli gone.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on August 12, 2016, 01:56:01 PM
RE:  87 new recruits-How does a coaching staff evaluate that many new players?

There are some obvious advantages to having large numbers but I would imagine that it also has its disadvantages.  How do you develop young players when there are so many of them? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 16, 2016, 03:07:39 AM
Thomas More freshmen...errr, I mean 2016 Case Western Reserve Spartans (via team Twitter page):

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpwmfOMWYAAJV4A.jpg)

https://mobile.twitter.com/caseathletics/status/764528471527809026
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 16, 2016, 03:12:15 AM
A couple season previews ... Also there are plenty of the PAC interviews on YouTube as well:

Thomas More Team to Beat in PAC
http://www.observer-reporter.com/20160803/thomas_more_team_to_beat_in_pac

Thomas More picked 1st in Presidents' Athletic Conference preseason poll; W&J 2nd
http://triblive.com/mobile/10895312-96/poll-conference-preseason
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HansenRatings on August 16, 2016, 11:10:57 AM
Here's how my model projects the conference standings (without returning starter adjustments, yet):


Team   Overall W-L   Conf W-L   Pool A Probability   
Thomas More   8.9-1.1   7.1-0.9   56.8%   
Wash & Jeff   7.7-2.3   6.7-2.3   14.2%   
Case   7.7-2.3   6.3-1.7   12.2%   
Carnegie Mellon   6.6-3.4   5.2-2.8   10.7%   
Westminster   6.4-3.6   5.5-3.5   4.2%   
Bethany   4.6-5.4   4.2-4.8   1.2%   
Waynesburg   4.2-5.8   3.7-5.3   0.2%   
St. Vincent   4.2-5.8   3.5-5.5   0.3%   
Geneva   3.4-6.6   3.0-6.0   0.1%   
Thiel   2.2-7.8   1.4-7.6   0.0%   
Grove City   1.5-8.5   1.4-7.6   0.0%   

Source: https://loghan.shinyapps.io/Season_Projections/ (https://loghan.shinyapps.io/Season_Projections/)

There's a couple flips in there from where the conference preseason poll has everything, but lines up pretty nicely. In the hopes of building a better model though, I would need more information about what the PAC considers "conference games," because not every team plays the same number of conference opponents, and from looking at the standings last year, it appears that some of the conference opponents are non-conference games. Wally Wabash also brought up the point a few days ago, what happens if there's two undefeated teams in conference? Who gets the Pool A bid? I had to make some assumptions that probably skewed the results more in favor of Thomas More than they will be in reality. So take my projections for the PAC with a few more grains of salt than you would for a different conference, especially the Pool A projections.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 16, 2016, 12:14:55 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on August 12, 2016, 01:56:01 PM
RE:  87 new recruits-How does a coaching staff evaluate that many new players?

There are some obvious advantages to having large numbers but I would imagine that it also has its disadvantages.  How do you develop young players when there are so many of them?

They are down to 78 newcomers left on the roster.  They develop these kids and keep them interested by having 16 Assistant Coaches on staff (a few are retired ex-HS Head Coaches) and a full schedule JV Program. 

The only disadvantage I can think of is having to buy more equipment but thats more than offset when you have 150+ paying tuition. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 16, 2016, 12:58:26 PM
PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 16, 2016, 01:03:31 PM
Quote from: E.115 on August 16, 2016, 03:12:15 AM
A couple season previews ... Also there are plenty of the PAC interviews on YouTube as well:

Thomas More Team to Beat in PAC
http://www.observer-reporter.com/20160803/thomas_more_team_to_beat_in_pac

Thomas More picked 1st in Presidents' Athletic Conference preseason poll; W&J 2nd
http://triblive.com/mobile/10895312-96/poll-conference-preseason

94 players reported
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 16, 2016, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: HansenRatings on August 16, 2016, 11:10:57 AM
Here's how my model projects the conference standings (without returning starter adjustments, yet):


Team   Overall W-L   Conf W-L   Pool A Probability   
Thomas More   8.9-1.1   7.1-0.9   56.8%   
Wash & Jeff   7.7-2.3   6.7-2.3   14.2%   
Case   7.7-2.3   6.3-1.7   12.2%   
Carnegie Mellon   6.6-3.4   5.2-2.8   10.7%   
Westminster   6.4-3.6   5.5-3.5   4.2%   
Bethany   4.6-5.4   4.2-4.8   1.2%   
Waynesburg   4.2-5.8   3.7-5.3   0.2%   
St. Vincent   4.2-5.8   3.5-5.5   0.3%   
Geneva   3.4-6.6   3.0-6.0   0.1%   
Thiel   2.2-7.8   1.4-7.6   0.0%   
Grove City   1.5-8.5   1.4-7.6   0.0%   

Source: https://loghan.shinyapps.io/Season_Projections/ (https://loghan.shinyapps.io/Season_Projections/)

There's a couple flips in there from where the conference preseason poll has everything, but lines up pretty nicely. In the hopes of building a better model though, I would need more information about what the PAC considers "conference games," because not every team plays the same number of conference opponents, and from looking at the standings last year, it appears that some of the conference opponents are non-conference games. Wally Wabash also brought up the point a few days ago, what happens if there's two undefeated teams in conference? Who gets the Pool A bid? I had to make some assumptions that probably skewed the results more in favor of Thomas More than they will be in reality. So take my projections for the PAC with a few more grains of salt than you would for a different conference, especially the Pool A projections.

For teams with 9 conference opponents, the first game with a conference opponent is not counted as a conference game.

FWIW Massey projects CWRU 9-1, with close loss to Westminster and close games with Wash U, Bethany, and CMU.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HansenRatings on August 16, 2016, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 16, 2016, 01:09:46 PM
FWIW Massey projects CWRU 9-1, with close loss to Westminster and close games with Wash U, Bethany, and CMU.

Careful there. They're favored in 9 games, same as my system. To get their projected win shares, you should add their win probabilities for each game, which would come up to 7.77-2.23, nearly identical to what my system pegs them at.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 23, 2016, 07:54:21 PM
I enjoyed this year's edition of Kickoff.  Good write-up on CWRU.  This is going to be an exciting season!

But I have to keep reminding myself that the goal is to go 1-0 each week.  Let's hope that we don't fall flat against the Chicago Maroons!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 30, 2016, 07:37:19 PM
Game notes up on Chicago's site. Although I guess this is technically a UAA game I'll post this here since it's where all the CWRU traffic has been.

http://static.psbin.com/3/w/jab0atbwtajgz2/fb-case-notes-2016.pdf

Reading between the lines, it looks like projected starters Burke, Phan, DiFrancesco, Medved, and Cannon are out to injury.  Transfers Cameron Brown (DE) and John McKelvey (FS) are newcomers in the starting lineup. Newcomers with the twos are: Kevin Chrissis (CB), Patrick Crossey (SS), Thomas Strayer (RT), Adam Zybko (TE), and Justin Friedsam (WR).

[Post game edit] Burke, Phan, and Cannon all played.  Medved was padded up but didn't play.  He had a brace on right knee.

Listed as starting RB is Myles Anthony (5'4) and FB Aaron Aguilar (5'6).  Chicago might want to be on the lookout for this play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzIgZ1yrKk

Noted some discrepancies between player's weights on the two deep and the numerical roster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 31, 2016, 11:32:54 AM
Thanks for posting.

Ouch, that's a lot of early injuries.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 02, 2016, 11:14:49 AM
University of Chicago visiting tomorrow.

Unfinished Business
Football hoping for playoff run following last year's turnaround
Eddie Kerekes, Sports Editor • September 2, 2016

http://observer.case.edu/unfinished-business/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 11:25:53 AM
Uhh, not four wins in 2014, only three.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 02, 2016, 11:58:41 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2016, 11:25:53 AM
Uhh, not four wins in 2014, only three.

I think they meant their predictions record??  If so, not very scientific then from a school who used to be called the Case Scientists.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mustang on September 03, 2016, 03:20:02 PM
Nice start by Case. Put points on the board and the defense pitched a shutout in the 2nd half. My concern would be the number of times Cuda ran the ball, you certainly don't want to see him get hurt. My only beef would be that the kickoffs need to go deeper and the kickoff team needs to cover better.

The broadcast quality has improved, I hooked up my laptop to the tv and the quality didn't suffer too much. Also with the exception of a glitch right before halftime, didn't have the buffering issues I have had in the past.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 03, 2016, 03:35:26 PM
Freshman Kolderup took over after the first three short ones and averaged 60.8 with one touchback. Coverage of his kicks was better.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 03, 2016, 07:49:30 PM
Very impressive, borderline statement win today against U Chicago today.  Most shocking was how little Cuda had to pass to keep the offense moving. 

CWRU Football Shines in 45-17 Season-Opening Win over Chicago

CWRU Football Shines in 45-17 Season-Opening Win over Chicago - Case Western Reserve (http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20160903o6em4s)

Top highlight -- 85-yard punt return from Phan:  https://youtu.be/rc233rs57Zk
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 03, 2016, 08:46:58 PM
Good start to the season.

Let's hope that we improve each game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 03, 2016, 09:28:46 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 03, 2016, 07:49:30 PM
Very impressive, borderline statement win today against U Chicago today.  Most shocking was how little Cuda had to pass to keep the offense moving. 

CWRU Football Shines in 45-17 Season-Opening Win over Chicago

CWRU Football Shines in 45-17 Season-Opening Win over Chicago - Case Western Reserve (http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20160903o6em4s)

Top highlight -- 85-yard punt return from Phan:  https://youtu.be/rc233rs57Zk

Come on; your statement game has been yet to be played.  That was Chicago. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 03, 2016, 10:14:23 PM
He said borderline. KO had Chicago #60; Westminster #50. Chicago second highest ranked team on schedule. If there is a statement game, it will be scheduled by the committee.

Dare I point out that it was a win?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GRIZ_BACKER on September 04, 2016, 08:03:14 AM
Big win in Franklin, IN last night over the TM Saints. Big crowd under the lights. Two great teams battled to the end. Franklin appeared to have the upper hand with regard to conditioning. That may have been the difference maker in the end. Over 1100 yards of offense combined.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: GRIZ_BACKER on September 04, 2016, 08:03:14 AM
Big win in Franklin, IN last night over the TM Saints. Big crowd under the lights. Two great teams battled to the end. Franklin appeared to have the upper hand with regard to conditioning. That may have been the difference maker in the end. Over 1100 yards of offense combined.
TM was "out-conditioned"? Wow!  That is an ominous observation about a Top 25 team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GrizFan on September 04, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
It did look like the Saints wore down in the second half.  Lots of cramping and minor leg injuries.  It was a cool night so I was surprised at how many TMC players were taken off of the field, seemed like one every play.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: GRIZ_BACKER on September 04, 2016, 08:03:14 AM
Big win in Franklin, IN last night over the TM Saints. Big crowd under the lights. Two great teams battled to the end. Franklin appeared to have the upper hand with regard to conditioning. That may have been the difference maker in the end. Over 1100 yards of offense combined.
TM was "out-conditioned"? Wow!  That is an ominous observation about a Top 25 team.

I disagree with that assessment.  They were outplayed in the 2nd half.  But a TD with 3 minutes left would've ended it and that was a drive where Franklin knew Tarrant was getting the ball and couldn't do anything about it; not the mark of a team with conditioning issues. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: GrizFan on September 04, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
It did look like the Saints wore down in the second half.  Lots of cramping and minor leg injuries.  It was a cool night so I was surprised at how many TMC players were taken off of the field, seemed like one every play.

Cut blocks and chop blocks
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 03, 2016, 10:14:23 PM
He said borderline. KO had Chicago #60; Westminster #50. Chicago second highest ranked team on schedule. If there is a statement game, it will be scheduled by the committee.

Dare I point out that it was a win?

I'm sorry.  No team with playoff aspirations will point to a home opener against Chicago as any kind of statement win, no matter what word is in front of it. 

I have higher expectations for CWRU.  They are definitely playoff worthy with Cuda
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:44:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: GRIZ_BACKER on September 04, 2016, 08:03:14 AM
Big win in Franklin, IN last night over the TM Saints. Big crowd under the lights. Two great teams battled to the end. Franklin appeared to have the upper hand with regard to conditioning. That may have been the difference maker in the end. Over 1100 yards of offense combined.
TM was "out-conditioned"? Wow!  That is an ominous observation about a Top 25 team.

Could be a former top 25 team, depending on how the vote shakes out.  They just can't lose in PAC play now.  And they know it. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GRIZ_BACKER on September 04, 2016, 05:13:54 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: GrizFan on September 04, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
It did look like the Saints wore down in the second half.  Lots of cramping and minor leg injuries.  It was a cool night so I was surprised at how many TMC players were taken off of the field, seemed like one every play.

Cut blocks and chop blocks

If conditioning and attrition was not the issue then getting whacked 29-7 in the last 29:45 is what it is.  I will say the DUMB penalty with the blow to the head (I think the TM player was ejected) was a critical error. I still contend TM was running out of gas. I was there (50 yard line in the stands).  All that matters is that FC won a critical SOS game as it relates to playoffs (the likelihood the GRiZ dont go 8-0 again in the HCAC is small). This GRIZ squad is deep and talented.  Possibly the most rounded group Leonard has put on the field.  600 plus yards on TM defense. It was only a 9 point game at half.  25-14.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: GRIZ_BACKER on September 04, 2016, 05:13:54 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: GrizFan on September 04, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
It did look like the Saints wore down in the second half.  Lots of cramping and minor leg injuries.  It was a cool night so I was surprised at how many TMC players were taken off of the field, seemed like one every play.

Cut blocks and chop blocks

If conditioning and attrition was not the issue then getting whacked 29-7 in the last 29:45 is what it is.  I will say the DUMB penalty with the blow to the head (I think the TM player was ejected) was a critical error. I still contend TM was running out of gas. I was there (50 yard line in the stands).  All that matters is that FC won a critical SOS game as it relates to playoffs (the likelihood the GRiZ dont go 8-0 again in the HCAC is small). This GRIZ squad is deep and talented.  Possibly the most rounded group Leonard has put on the field.  600 plus yards on TM defense. It was only a 9 point game at half.  25-14.

11 points.

They got outplayed in the 2nd half.   I think both defenses were on the field too much.  But I'd hardly say it was a conditioning issue; that doesn't give Franklin enough credit for their comeback.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 04, 2016, 07:39:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 03, 2016, 10:14:23 PM
He said borderline. KO had Chicago #60; Westminster #50. Chicago second highest ranked team on schedule. If there is a statement game, it will be scheduled by the committee.

Dare I point out that it was a win?

I'm sorry.  No team with playoff aspirations will point to a home opener against Chicago as any kind of statement win, no matter what word is in front of it. 

I have higher expectations for CWRU.  They are definitely playoff worthy with Cuda

Guess it wasn't much of a statement, CWRU went from 18 pts in poll to 15
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 04, 2016, 07:39:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2016, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 03, 2016, 10:14:23 PM
He said borderline. KO had Chicago #60; Westminster #50. Chicago second highest ranked team on schedule. If there is a statement game, it will be scheduled by the committee.

Dare I point out that it was a win?

I'm sorry.  No team with playoff aspirations will point to a home opener against Chicago as any kind of statement win, no matter what word is in front of it. 

I have higher expectations for CWRU.  They are definitely playoff worthy with Cuda

Guess it wasn't much of a statement, CWRU went from 18 pts in poll to 15

I tried to tell you!  But they are still on mine.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 05, 2016, 08:42:00 AM
Contrast with W&J with hardly a statement win who gained 9 pts
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2016, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 05, 2016, 08:42:00 AM
Contrast with W&J with hardly a statement win who gained 9 pts
Respectfully, W&J just "floated up" because 4 teams in the bottom half of the poll dropped out.

Wartburg was RV26 before and after, did not play in Week 1, and still picked up one vote.

If you look at the poll, week after week, #25 usually has 50 votes. That is #22 on half of the ballots.  When you fill out your Top 25, everyone beyond #21 or #22 is a  "place holder" and on  most voters "watch list".
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GrizFan on September 06, 2016, 07:57:48 AM
I believe that TMC will win their conference and earn a playoff spot.  They are VERY good.  Tarrant is a total stud.  I sat right on the sideline and I can tell you that the Saints defense was totally gassed in the 4th quarter.  The Grizzly offense really picked up the pace in the second half.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2016, 09:39:47 PM
Big game this week.  Wonder if a coach will get on here to take a shot at a player he'd like to have?  Or maybe one can explain the movement to oust TMC from the PAC because of the success the school in KY has had in all sports? 

Lots of motivation this week.  Wish I could be there.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 12, 2016, 12:43:24 AM
Whence come rumors of move to oust TMC?

Geography could also be a reason.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 12, 2016, 02:03:45 AM
Never heard that rumor.

Anybody got a link?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 12, 2016, 09:02:16 AM
There isn't a link.  It's a clandestine operation; or was supposed to be. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 12, 2016, 09:05:38 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 12, 2016, 12:43:24 AM
Whence come rumors of move to oust TMC?

Geography could also be a reason.

That's not it, but will be the stated reason.   Thomas More has done quite well in athletics in the PAC, check it out.  They've helped raise the profile of the PAC in football.  Before, it was W&J and then everyone else.  Now, look at the 5 who have a shot at the PAC title this season. 

Hopefully the boys in blue play well enough to not have any zebra-intervention hurt the kids. 

Go Saints
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 12, 2016, 11:38:48 AM
Looking forward to going to Cincinnati this weekend. Dinner Friday at Bocca with #2 son to celebrate his parents wedding anniversary, then to the game on Saturday. Hope it is a good one.

Or maybe one can explain the movement to oust TMC from the PAC because of the success the school in KY has had in all sports? 

Saints Fan,

It looks like TMC has made a major commitment (eg: 16 football coaches, over 70 new recruits, national title in women's basketball, and others) to becoming highly competitive across the board in athletics, and clearly it is bearing fruit. Assuming they are following NCAA and PAC rules/policies (and I have no reason to think otherwise), that is clearly their prerogative. I know W&J has won the men's PAC all sports trophy consistently over the past 10 years and athletics has strong support from alumni and the administration. I'm not aware of any move to "break up the Presidents" or throw them out of The President's Athletic Conference because of that success.

So, unless there are some facts, I guess we have to take this for what it is - pure speculation.

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 12, 2016, 12:10:31 PM
 Wonder if a coach will get on here to take a shot at a player he'd like to have?

Saints Fan,

I assume this is referring to Tarrent, the DI Ohio U transfer who is proving to be dominating in D3. I know he had some issues, but again if his transfer to TMC was kosher, so what? TMC was willing to give him a second chance and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. TMC also had Sydney Moss, who was an SEC player at Florida before transferring to TMC where she led the TMC women to a national title last season (thank goodness she is gone!).

Fifteen years ago, there was a lot of smack on the PAC Board and some of it did, indeed, come from coaches. Given what I've seen here the last few years, I doubt any coaches (or players, for that matter) follow/contribute anything any more.

Jeff in Tennessee

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 12, 2016, 01:43:09 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 12, 2016, 12:10:31 PM
Wonder if a coach will get on here to take a shot at a player he'd like to have?

Saints Fan,

I assume this is referring to Tarrent, the DI Ohio U transfer who is proving to be dominating in D3. I know he had some issues, but again if his transfer to TMC was kosher, so what? TMC was willing to give him a second chance and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. TMC also had Sydney Moss, who was an SEC player at Florida before transferring to TMC where she led the TMC women to a national title last season (thank goodness she is gone!).

Fifteen years ago, there was a lot of smack on the PAC Board and some of it did, indeed, come from coaches. Given what I've seen here the last few years, I doubt any coaches (or players, for that matter) follow/contribute anything any more.

Jeff in Tennessee

It was "a" coach who posted about him last year.  That's the "so what".  Pat even responded to him.

Furthermore, I can say it's not speculation. 

BTW: it was 2 straight National Titles
Have a safe trip.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 16, 2016, 02:56:04 AM
Preview of the big game:

http://www.observer-reporter.com/20160915/wj_thomas_more_set_for_early_season_showdown_of_pac_heavyweights

http://www.gopresidents.com/documents/2016/9/14//2016_Game_Notes_Thomas_More.pdf?id=176
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 16, 2016, 07:48:14 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 16, 2016, 02:56:04 AM
Preview of the big game:

http://www.observer-reporter.com/20160915/wj_thomas_more_set_for_early_season_showdown_of_pac_heavyweights

http://www.gopresidents.com/documents/2016/9/14//2016_Game_Notes_Thomas_More.pdf?id=176

I like Thomas More at home to take care of the ball and draw on their experience vs Franklin in the opener.  I think the fact W&J hasn't played a four quarter game could factor in as well, unless they blow the doors off of Thomas More like they did in 2013 and 2014 at their place.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 16, 2016, 05:49:44 PM
Any predictions for CWRU v. Grove City?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 16, 2016, 06:23:47 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 16, 2016, 05:49:44 PM
Any predictions for CWRU v. Grove City?

I doubt any are really needed. That's a mismatch.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 16, 2016, 05:49:44 PM
Any predictions for CWRU v. Grove City?

I have two: 
1.  The concession stand will run out of hot dogs in the 3rd Quarter. 
2.  Case will score more points in the first half than they did on September 10th.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 17, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
WOW.. impressive victory by TMC
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2016, 03:45:25 PM
Well, Thomas More's post season started today and the Saints were crisp.  Looks like the defense played well while the offense ran 83 plays. 

Coughlin was held to 170 yards and threw 2 INTs.  Thomas More's defense held W&J to 10 first downs.

I'll have to check if the 1st team defense gave up the long TD pass. 
The Saints got away with Tarrant not playing the 2nd half - hope he's okay. 

I feel like this team will be a handful for the rest of their schedule. 
On to next week's playoff matchup. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 17, 2016, 04:50:40 PM
Went to the TMC W&J game today with my wife and son.

Best things were that the rain held off and I got to spend some time with my son and visit with some fellow alums and player parents. W&J had a good turnout.

7-3 at half time. Both defenses played well. W&J really shut down TMC''s rushing game. I don't know what happened to CT Tarrant, but he was not a factor.

Second half did not go well for W&J. The TMC quarterback played an outstamding game. W&J's defense was on the field to long as TMC shut down the W&J offense. A couple of breaks that went TMC's way didn't help.

TMC is the better team. Hope both W&J and TMC win out, and perhaps the PAC will have two teams in the playoffs - recognizing CWRU and Westminster may have some say in who those teams might be.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 17, 2016, 08:36:53 PM
W&J Head Coach Mike Sirianni, via Twitter, following today's game:  "Humbled"
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 18, 2016, 06:09:03 PM
As I posted, I went to the W&J/TMC football game yesterday and shared my thoughts afterwards.

As I was driving home with my wife I thought about SaintFan's comment about there being an underground move to oust TMC from the PAC for winning too much. We all know about football and women's basketball, but what's the total picture? I spent some time (it's raining here and I enjoy looking into this kind of stuff)  at TMC's website. I was absolutely amazed at what I learned.

Here is a summary of TMC's NCAA post appearances. Safe to assume most if not all were the result of a PAC championship:


                                                       Since 2000  Last                              Since 2010
Baseball                                              7            2016                                          5
M Basketball                                       1            2000                                          0
W Basketball                                       14          2016                                         7
Football                                               6           2015                                         3
M Soccer                                            7            2015                                         6
W Soccer                                            6            2015                                        5
Softball                                               7            2015                                        4
Volleyball                                            14          2015                                        5

here is the link:

http://www.tmcsaints.com/information/ncaa_history


According to the TMC web site in 2015 there were 959 full time traditional students at TMC.

http://www.thomasmore.edu/academics/iped_enrollment.cfm


According to the latest rosters there were 293 male athletes competing in 8 sports with 37 +/- coaches. There were 155 female athletes competing in 9 sports with 27 +/- coaches. The total number of students athletes at TMC is 448 or 46.7% of students. That number is, of course, slightly lower since there are some students who play more than one sport. 

This looks to me like across sport and across time domination (need to get that men's basketball program fixed, though). I'm not aware (although I haven't looked) of any other conference where one school has dominated across the board for an extended period of time. Sure, there are instances where one school dominates one, two or even three sports but all but one of the major sports they compete in?

Should the PAC be concerned that they have become a one trick pony and do something, or should they just wait and hope there is a reversion to the mean some day? Not for me to decide, but having looked at this data I can see why there might be some discontent at some schools that have looked at the same data, and I'm sure they have.

Jeff in East Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 18, 2016, 07:53:11 PM
I doubt this is all that unusual. For example, W&L has won 19 of 21 Overall ODAC Commissioner's Cups. That's weighted average best performance finishes across all ODAC sports. The W&L men have won 16 of 23 men's cups, the women have won 15 of 23 women's cups.

I'm not going to do the individual stuff. But last year the W&L men topped the ODAC in every fall sport. This year the men and women were the favorite in the preseason of every fall sport except women's soccer, where they were predicted 2nd. Winter and spring aren't as dominant, though men's and women's swimming is every year, women's tennis is every year, men's tennis is almost every year. Basketball, men's and women's, and baseball, tend to be the only sports where W&L is not consistently expected to compete or win year in and out. Softball is the only ODAC sport W&L has yet to adopt.

I'd expect you'd find something similar in many conferences.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: FOUR on September 18, 2016, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 16, 2016, 05:49:44 PM
Any predictions for CWRU v. Grove City?

I have two: 
1.  The concession stand will run out of hot dogs in the 3rd Quarter. 
2.  Case will score more points in the first half than they did on September 10th.

Ha!  Wrong on both...  Although not sure we've seen the Wolverines hit rock bottom yet... no where to go but up.   I do have a bold prediction and it is they will not lose on Oct 22.    ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 18, 2016, 11:53:14 PM
Jknezek,

No surprise that W&L dominates the ODAC. They have two things no other ODAC team has - a national recruiting base due to their academic reputation, and tons of money for facilities, coaching, financial aid, recruiting, etc. Here is how the football playing members of the ODAC stand up. Stats from Wikepedia, which you can, of course, contest.

School                  Students               Endowment            Endowment/Student
Guilford                  2682                        70,700,000          26,360
Randolph-Macon    1146                      126,300,000         110,209
Shenandoah             724                        54,900,000          75,829
Bridgewater            1690                       70,100,000          41,479
Emory & Henry       1000                       86,500,000          86,500
Hampden-Sydney  1120                      154,600,000        138,035
W&L                      2200                    1,477,000,000       671,000

I'd say W&L has a substantial edge versus the rest of the ODC and if they are at all committed to athletics (which I think they are) they should prevail across the board. I looked at the non-football playing members and no school jumped out as one that would compete with W&L on a financial basis.

Been to W&L and a few other ODAC schools, and none compares to W&L.

Regarding the PAC I'll publish similar data tomorrow, but based on a preliminary look I don't think TMC has the endowment resources of most of the other PAC schools.

Jeff from East Tennessee (and the other W&_)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 19, 2016, 12:02:25 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 18, 2016, 11:53:14 PM
Jknezek,

No surprise that W&L dominates the ODAC. They have two things no other ODAC team has - a national recruiting base due to their academic reputation, and tons of money for facilities, coaching, financial aid, recruiting, etc. Here is how the football playing members of the ODAC stand up. Stats from Wikepedia, which you can, of course, contest.

School                  Students               Endowment            Endowment/Student
Guilford                  2682                        70,700,000          26,360
Randolph-Macon    1146                      126,300,000         110,209
Shenandoah             724                        54,900,000          75,829
Bridgewater            1690                       70,100,000          41,479
Emory & Henry       1000                       86,500,000          86,500
Hampden-Sydney  1120                      154,600,000        138,035
W&L                      2200                    1,477,000,000       671,000,000

I'd say W&L has a substantial edge versus the rest of the ODC and if they are at all committed to athletics (which I think they are) they should prevail across the board. I looked at the non-football playing members and no school jumped out as one that would compete with W&L on a financial basis.

Been to W&L and a few other ODAC schools, and none compares to W&L.

Jeff from East Tennessee (and the other W&_)

I hope your W&J major was not math (or, worse, accounting)! ;D  Your endowment/student number for W&L is off by a factor of 1,000!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 19, 2016, 12:08:40 AM
It's late. I've corrected it. I was an English major, but that's no excuse. Thanks for the catch.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2016, 08:53:09 AM
Bingo, WashJeff68. 

This thing has legs.  Cincinnati is a great area for recruiting Division 3 athletes.   The school has also recently added wrestling and track/field. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 19, 2016, 09:37:50 AM
GCC broadcasters had me rolling on the floor when they described CWRU as a "big-time football factory"!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 19, 2016, 10:50:45 AM
SaintsFAN,

I knew about wrestling, but not track & field. Add swimming and diving and you have all the pieces in place to win the PAC All Sports Trophy which is difficult if you are not playing three conference sports.


Got any prospective donors inline to pony up for a swimming/diving complex?

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 19, 2016, 11:22:30 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 18, 2016, 11:53:14 PM
Jknezek,

No surprise that W&L dominates the ODAC. They have two things no other ODAC team has - a national recruiting base due to their academic reputation, and tons of money for facilities, coaching, financial aid, recruiting, etc. Here is how the football playing members of the ODAC stand up. Stats from Wikepedia, which you can, of course, contest.

School                  Students               Endowment            Endowment/Student
Guilford                  2682                        70,700,000          26,360
Randolph-Macon    1146                      126,300,000         110,209
Shenandoah             724                        54,900,000          75,829
Bridgewater            1690                       70,100,000          41,479
Emory & Henry       1000                       86,500,000          86,500
Hampden-Sydney  1120                      154,600,000        138,035
W&L                      2200                    1,477,000,000       671,000

I'd say W&L has a substantial edge versus the rest of the ODC and if they are at all committed to athletics (which I think they are) they should prevail across the board. I looked at the non-football playing members and no school jumped out as one that would compete with W&L on a financial basis.

Been to W&L and a few other ODAC schools, and none compares to W&L.

Regarding the PAC I'll publish similar data tomorrow, but based on a preliminary look I don't think TMC has the endowment resources of most of the other PAC schools.

Jeff from East Tennessee (and the other W&_)

Stats match more or less what I know. And you are right. There is a big difference in resources between W&L and the rest of the ODAC. I wish we had stats for dollars spent per student athlete. I don't think W&L devotes more dollars, on average, to athletics than many other DIII schools. No ridiculous number of coaches, no crazy travel budget. The facilities are good, but I wouldn't say they stand out in DIII with the indoor tennis center and probably the currently being built swimming and diving center being the exceptions. No doubt W&L could spend more, it's just not really part of the school's philosophy. For example, playing in the ODAC versus the SAA. Mission and values wise, the SAA matches up better with W&L, but the costs and time of travel just don't compare to how good life is for student athletes in the ODAC.

We'll see. There has definitely been a step forward in facilities in the last 20 years. Before that almost everything was horribly behind. I don't think it will pay off too much with W&L becoming more of a national power anywhere, but we have definitely seen regional results improve in football, men's soccer, men's golf and field hockey. Adding to sports where we were already regional powers, M&W tennis, M&W swimming, and M&W lax.

In the end though, I still think most conferences have a school that is consistently a cut above. There are too many ways, and needs, for a school to emphasize athletics if they feel it will benefit them in the long run.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2016, 01:07:24 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 19, 2016, 10:50:45 AM
SaintsFAN,

I knew about wrestling, but not track & field. Add swimming and diving and you have all the pieces in place to win the PAC All Sports Trophy which is difficult if you are not playing three conference sports.


Got any prospective donors inline to pony up for a swimming/diving complex?

Jeff in Tennessee

No but there is an adequate swimming/diving facility behind the school at the Country Club.  TM students have been welcome there in the past..
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 19, 2016, 07:38:59 PM
Saints FAN

If you are talking about Summit Hills Country Club, looks like they do have a nice outside facility. Swimming and Diving is a winter sport, so I don't think that will work.

Jeff
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2016, 09:34:23 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 19, 2016, 07:38:59 PM
Saints FAN

If you are talking about Summit Hills Country Club, looks like they do have a nice outside facility. Swimming and Diving is a winter sport, so I don't think that will work.

Jeff

I think China does it that way with their Olympics team training :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 20, 2016, 09:29:09 AM
Quote from: FOUR on September 18, 2016, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2016, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 16, 2016, 05:49:44 PM
Any predictions for CWRU v. Grove City?

I have two: 
1.  The concession stand will run out of hot dogs in the 3rd Quarter. 
2.  Case will score more points in the first half than they did on September 10th.

Ha!  Wrong on both...  Although not sure we've seen the Wolverines hit rock bottom yet... no where to go but up.   I do have a bold prediction and it is they will not lose on Oct 22.    ;D

He got #2 right...CWRU didn't play on September 10.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 20, 2016, 11:00:32 AM
Nice catch Jeff!

And the fact that the third quarter started at 10PM, after two lengthy rain delays, held down the dog sales.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 20, 2016, 09:38:17 PM
Sorry folks...have been somewhat absentee from the boards thus far this season.

Was able to take in the Tartans hosting Waynesburg on Saturday.  Observations:

1) Sam Benger continues to churn out yards on the ground.

2) Brian Khoury is a terror on the defensive line.

3) Starting QB Bryan Jangro was somewhat up and down before leaving with what appeared to be a concussion.  Fortunately, backup Alex Cline stepped in and made some critical throws as the Tartans rallied.  QB controversy?  We'll see if Jangro is healthy enough to play this week.

4) Tartan special teams were really solid.  Punter is an absolute stud.  Also got several nice kick and punt returns from a freshman, Richter.

5) Waynesburg does appear to be much improved from last season's disaster.

In another week or two, I'll do a set of PAC rankings, but I would like to have a couple of conference results before trying to rank the teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 21, 2016, 12:47:19 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 20, 2016, 09:38:17 PM
5) Waynesburg does appear to be much improved from last season's disaster.

I was surprised to see them play CMU as close as they did.  I figured they were going to be really down again this year after their loss to Muskingum.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 22, 2016, 12:58:49 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Waynesburg plays against Case Western Reserve, after how they slugged it out with Carnegie Mellon.

Likewise, I'm looking forward to the Carnegie Mellon @ TMC match up this week.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 22, 2016, 04:03:22 PM
Nice that we get to watch the first half of that game, before the Spartans' game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 22, 2016, 12:58:49 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Waynesburg plays against Case Western Reserve, after how they slugged it out with Carnegie Mellon.

Likewise, I'm looking forward to the Carnegie Mellon @ TMC match up this week.

I look for the game to be like the first CWRU/TMC game in KY.  How well CMU does depends on how they adjust to the speed of which things happen to them.  Adjust poorly and TM will light the scoreboard up.  Some of the cutbacks Benger is used to won't be there today.  They need to help him by efficiency in the passing game.  They will have to be sound in pass pro also, the DL is pretty decisive for TMC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 24, 2016, 08:14:18 PM
CWRU wins 35-7.

One running back had four rushing TDs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 25, 2016, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 22, 2016, 12:58:49 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Waynesburg plays against Case Western Reserve, after how they slugged it out with Carnegie Mellon.

Likewise, I'm looking forward to the Carnegie Mellon @ TMC match up this week.

I look for the game to be like the first CWRU/TMC game in KY.  How well CMU does depends on how they adjust to the speed of which things happen to them.  Adjust poorly and TM will light the scoreboard up.  Some of the cutbacks Benger is used to won't be there today.  They need to help him by efficiency in the passing game.  They will have to be sound in pass pro also, the DL is pretty decisive for TMC.

Held Benger to 55yds, but CMU kept it close
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 25, 2016, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 24, 2016, 08:14:18 PM
CWRU wins 35-7.

One running back had four rushing TDs.

In addition to the TDs Burke rushed for 163 on 20 carries. Don't know if he was limited by injury, but only had 9 carries in first two games.  And only 16 in his first two years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2016, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 25, 2016, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 24, 2016, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 22, 2016, 12:58:49 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Waynesburg plays against Case Western Reserve, after how they slugged it out with Carnegie Mellon.

Likewise, I'm looking forward to the Carnegie Mellon @ TMC match up this week.

I look for the game to be like the first CWRU/TMC game in KY.  How well CMU does depends on how they adjust to the speed of which things happen to them.  Adjust poorly and TM will light the scoreboard up.  Some of the cutbacks Benger is used to won't be there today.  They need to help him by efficiency in the passing game.  They will have to be sound in pass pro also, the DL is pretty decisive for TMC.

Held Benger to 55yds, but CMU kept it close

I didn't see the game but appears the CMU defense played well, if not opportunistically.  The Saints turned the ball over and the numbers for the passing game don't point to efficiency.  I'm sure they'll get it cleaned up for this week.  Huge game @ Westminster for Thomas More this week.  After a couple weeks of blowouts, I think this CMU result is going to enable the kids to really lock in this week in prep work for Westminster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 28, 2016, 02:19:46 AM
Battle of PAC undefeated this week in Cleveland:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20160927qe0kvl
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2016, 05:59:54 AM
I know there's something to just "being undefeated" - it's hard to win a bunch of games in a row no matter what the competition - but it's worth pointing out that St. Vincent's 4-0 record is  a little on the lackluster side considering that the wins are 1) let-them-hang-around-too-long win against perennial MIAA bottom feeder Alma, 2) sweating out a 2-point win over Thiel in which the margin of victory was a blocked-extra-point-runback, 3) needing a pair of fourth-quarter stops deep in their own territory to hold off Geneva (who is 2-2....but the wins came against Bethany and Thiel), and 4) letting Grove City get within 2 points in the third quarter before pulling away (similar to Alma).  SVC was a high-ceiling, low-floor team last year that struggled (they took Thomas More down to the wire but got blown out by both CWRU and CMU) so the glass-half-full take is that they're winning the games they are supposed to win.  The more pessimistic outlook is that they aren't very good and have just scraped by against a couple of struggling lower-tier PAC teams, and will be exposed by better competition...

Don't make me look bad, Spartans.  Kick their butts.  Lol.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 29, 2016, 09:18:16 AM
SVC being 4-0 should prevent the Spartans from being overconfident after three relatively easy wins.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 29, 2016, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2016, 05:59:54 AM
I know there's something to just "being undefeated" - it's hard to win a bunch of games in a row no matter what the competition - but it's worth pointing out that St. Vincent's 4-0 record is  a little on the lackluster side considering that the wins are 1) let-them-hang-around-too-long win against perennial MIAA bottom feeder Alma, 2) sweating out a 2-point win over Thiel in which the margin of victory was a blocked-extra-point-runback, 3) needing a pair of fourth-quarter stops deep in their own territory to hold off Geneva (who is 2-2....but the wins came against Bethany and Thiel), and 4) letting Grove City get within 2 points in the third quarter before pulling away (similar to Alma).  SVC was a high-ceiling, low-floor team last year that struggled (they took Thomas More down to the wire but got blown out by both CWRU and CMU) so the glass-half-full take is that they're winning the games they are supposed to win.  The more pessimistic outlook is that they aren't very good and have just scraped by against a couple of struggling lower-tier PAC teams, and will be exposed by better competition...

Don't make me look bad, Spartans.  Kick their butts.  Lol.

Quote from: ADL70 on September 29, 2016, 09:18:16 AM
SVC being 4-0 should prevent the Spartans from being overconfident after three relatively easy wins.

Although from the PAC preview, interesting note: Head coaches Debeljak and Dolciato know each other from their days coaching at John Carroll.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sap80UQgO4
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 30, 2016, 06:55:15 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 29, 2016, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2016, 05:59:54 AM
I know there's something to just "being undefeated" - it's hard to win a bunch of games in a row no matter what the competition - but it's worth pointing out that St. Vincent's 4-0 record is  a little on the lackluster side considering that the wins are 1) let-them-hang-around-too-long win against perennial MIAA bottom feeder Alma, 2) sweating out a 2-point win over Thiel in which the margin of victory was a blocked-extra-point-runback, 3) needing a pair of fourth-quarter stops deep in their own territory to hold off Geneva (who is 2-2....but the wins came against Bethany and Thiel), and 4) letting Grove City get within 2 points in the third quarter before pulling away (similar to Alma).  SVC was a high-ceiling, low-floor team last year that struggled (they took Thomas More down to the wire but got blown out by both CWRU and CMU) so the glass-half-full take is that they're winning the games they are supposed to win.  The more pessimistic outlook is that they aren't very good and have just scraped by against a couple of struggling lower-tier PAC teams, and will be exposed by better competition...

Don't make me look bad, Spartans.  Kick their butts.  Lol.

Quote from: ADL70 on September 29, 2016, 09:18:16 AM
SVC being 4-0 should prevent the Spartans from being overconfident after three relatively easy wins.

Although from the PAC preview, interesting note: Head coaches Debeljak and Dolciato know each other from their days coaching at John Carroll.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sap80UQgO4

Boy that was a staff at JCU; they were joined by DC Regis Scafe, who became Head ball Coach there too.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 30, 2016, 06:56:41 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 29, 2016, 09:18:16 AM
SVC being 4-0 should prevent the Spartans from being overconfident after three relatively easy wins.

Nah; they got this one won already.  SVC, like last year, doesn't belong on the same field as Cuda and CWRU.  Just show up and throw the helmets onto the field at the 50 yard line.

Literally. 

Monkey stomp

Case 58
SVC 10 F
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 30, 2016, 07:54:01 AM
So you're saying there will be fireworks during the game not only after?

Many a slip twixt cup and lip.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 30, 2016, 11:30:13 AM
Two cool stories:

1) St. Vincent -- senior QB: http://triblive.com/sports/college/district/11221902-74/stewart-quarterback-dolciato

The senior helped St. Vincent to a 4-0 start by completing 65 percent of his passes for 1,235 yards and 13 touchdowns. In his debut against Alma, he threw for 424 yards and five touchdowns. Last week against Grove City, he threw for 442 yards and seven touchdowns.

The Bearcats will need all of their playmakers contributing if they are to escape October with the top of the PAC still in sight. On Saturday, St. Vincent begins a four-game gauntlet with a trip to Case Western, followed in successive weeks by games against conference heavyweights Westminster, Thomas More and W&J.

2) Case Western Reserve -- yoga in the Steve Belichick Weight Room: http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20160929/college-football-yoga-is-in-for-case-western-reserve-team

Debeljak came up with the idea for a football players yoga class after reading a story about Seahawks coach Pete Carroll doing the same with his players.

The class has had a positive effect on the Case team, said Debeljak, especially his larger players such as offense and defensive linemen.

"The best lineman we've had here are the ones who could bend," said Debeljak, who was introduced to yoga by his daughter Allison about 10 years ago. "I think (yoga) really helps our lineman with flexibility and getting into position. As for the rest of our guys, this helps with their state of mind and just being able to relax and relieve a little bit of stress."

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 30, 2016, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 30, 2016, 06:55:15 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 29, 2016, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2016, 05:59:54 AM
I know there's something to just "being undefeated" - it's hard to win a bunch of games in a row no matter what the competition - but it's worth pointing out that St. Vincent's 4-0 record is  a little on the lackluster side considering that the wins are 1) let-them-hang-around-too-long win against perennial MIAA bottom feeder Alma, 2) sweating out a 2-point win over Thiel in which the margin of victory was a blocked-extra-point-runback, 3) needing a pair of fourth-quarter stops deep in their own territory to hold off Geneva (who is 2-2....but the wins came against Bethany and Thiel), and 4) letting Grove City get within 2 points in the third quarter before pulling away (similar to Alma).  SVC was a high-ceiling, low-floor team last year that struggled (they took Thomas More down to the wire but got blown out by both CWRU and CMU) so the glass-half-full take is that they're winning the games they are supposed to win.  The more pessimistic outlook is that they aren't very good and have just scraped by against a couple of struggling lower-tier PAC teams, and will be exposed by better competition...

Don't make me look bad, Spartans.  Kick their butts.  Lol.

Quote from: ADL70 on September 29, 2016, 09:18:16 AM
SVC being 4-0 should prevent the Spartans from being overconfident after three relatively easy wins.

Although from the PAC preview, interesting note: Head coaches Debeljak and Dolciato know each other from their days coaching at John Carroll.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sap80UQgO4

Boy that was a staff at JCU; they were joined by DC Regis Scafe, who became Head ball Coach there too.

And what a football culture from that general era at JCU... such players included:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_McDaniels
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Fletcher
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Polian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Telesco
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 30, 2016, 03:36:56 PM
The Thomas More/Westminster game is going to be an absolute battle.  Westminster is big, runs the ball well and stops the run on defense. 

Last year, Thomas More prevailed because they got a 300 yard passing day from Gebhardt and had a pick six.  The Saints won the turnover battle and will need to do so again this week.  Last season, Westminster got better as the year went on and played really well in the ECAC game, blowing out St John Fisher. 

I expect the Saints to battle hard and let the chips fall where they may.  The veteran defense for Thomas More is going to be tested with Westminster's RB and QB on the ground and through the air, which they haven't had to do as of yet in 2016.  QB Brennan Kuntz will also be tested tomorrow to keep the chains moving.    If Thomas More can keep those chains moving and defensively can stop the run and force an inefficient passing game, they have a chance. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2016, 04:15:55 PM
Hey Pat,

Looks like Frank will have to stop picking against Thomas More this year. 

TMC 45
WC  35  F

Thomas More's oline played well and the Saints rushed for over 250 yards, wearing down Westminster in the 2nd half.  Kuntz was very efficient at QB and threw three TD passes.  The defense played well, gave up a long run (64 yards) and a couple big plays but the defensive line rushed the passer very well.  Good win in yet another playoff game for Thomas More.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 01, 2016, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2016, 04:15:55 PM
Hey Pat,

Looks like Frank will have to stop picking against Thomas More this year. 

TMC 45
WC  35  F

I don't know why you're telling me. Tell Frank. :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2016, 05:57:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 01, 2016, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2016, 04:15:55 PM
Hey Pat,

Looks like Frank will have to stop picking against Thomas More this year. 

TMC 45
WC  35  F

I don't know why you're telling me. Tell Frank. :)

Just to let you know what's coming :)  the POTW email should be lively this week. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 01, 2016, 06:25:24 PM
ataching the CWRU game SaintsFan?  I was concerned about Spartans pass D after last week.  My concern justified.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2016, 06:51:27 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 01, 2016, 06:25:24 PM
ataching the CWRU game SaintsFan?  I was concerned about Spartans pass D after last week.  My concern justified.

No sir, I'm at a dinner party tonight.  It's weird and may be breaking tendency for SVC; they ran the ball well last season and weren't effective passing it in the games I saw them. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 02, 2016, 01:54:34 PM
From the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

CWRU rallies to rout Saint Vincent, 53-28

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2016/10/cwru_rallies_to_rout_saint_vin.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2016, 02:06:18 PM
Interesting day around the league yesterday.

Carnegie Mellon 49, Bethany 26: I was fortunate to take in most of the CMU-Bethany game, and it went about according to the expected script (despite a 30-minute delay halfway through the first quarter due to lightning in the area).   Bethany has some impressive athletes on both sides of the ball, but is lacking discipline, especially on defense; the Tartans exploited several breakdowns for big offensive plays.  RB Benger (174 yards, 4 TD) and WR Prather (125 yards, 2 TD) were the offensive centerpiece, as usual.  Benger had two "one play touchdown drives" (49 and 55 yard runs that came on the first play of the possession).  Another impressive weapon for CMU is freshman KR/PR William Richter - he had several excellent returns and set the Tartans up with really great field position almost every time he touched the ball.  Listed as an RB, I'm not sure how much Richter will get on the field in regular offensive packages due to the presence of Benger, but I've been very impressed by Richter's return skills in both games that I've seen.  Quick feet, decisive runner, appears to have some wheels in the open field.  Should be a useful playmaker in a special-teams role this year and could be an heir apparent to Benger down the line.  Huge game for the Tartans next week with W&J.

Thomas More 45, Westminster 35: TMC has rebounded from a week 1 ding against Franklin to take down all of their top PAC challengers in a row.  I'm not sure how much I would like this schedule as a TMC fan - it's nice to have the league basically sewn up by mid-October, as the Saints really should not be challenged for the remainder of the regular season, but going into the playoffs after this stretch...would you rather be a little better tested at the end of the season?  Oh, and then there's the elephant in the room...there's one more "challenger" remaining that they won't get to play...

Case Western 53, St. Vincent 28: after seeing both of these teams live last year, I am not at all surprised that Case won the battle of unbeatens here, and realistically CWRU should be 7-0 going into a tough closing stretch with WashU (not PAC, but still, tough game) and then Westminster and CMU.  I don't know what the tiebreaker will be if CWRU and TMC both finish league play undefeated but presumably Thomas More will want to avoid that mess by rooting for Westminster/CMU when the time comes.  Of course, Case can root for TMC opponents too, but it's not likely to do very much good.

W&J 62, Thiel 14: Presidents lick their wounds after taking it on the chin from Thomas More a few weeks ago with a blowout win.  Big game against CMU coming up next week - will be very telling for both teams.

Waynesberg 14, Grove City 10: Poor Grove City battled to the whistle (ended the game with the ball, down 14-10, on the Waynesburg 40) but their futility continues (after many years of consistent-mid-pack finishes in the PAC, hovering between 3-7 in bad years and 6-4 in good ones, they have lost 25 straight games).  Meanwhile, Waynesburg also is trying to rebound from an uncharacteristically bad 2015 (their 3-7 finish was their first losing season since 2005) so it is nice to get a win, but a 14-10 win over winless Grove City to break a four-game losing streak is probably not what they've had in mind...part of this can be attributed to opening league play with three of the PAC's better teams, but that's little comfort to a program that's used to thinking of itself as one of the PAC's better teams.

Now that we've got some league play, I'll take a crack at my first PAC rankings of the season.

Tier 1:

1. Thomas More

With wins over W&J, Carnegie Mellon, and Westminster already in their pocket...I think they stand alone for now.

Tier 2:

2. Case Western
3. W&J
4. Westminster
5. Carnegie Mellon

CWRU is 4-0 and should coast along until playing Westminster and CMU to close the season. W&J has taken one beating from Thomas More but otherwise rolled; their game with CMU this week will help sort out Tier 2.  Westminster and CMU both played very gamely against Thomas More but lost.  They will each get chances for redemption against W&J and CWRU in the weeks to come.  You certainly can argue via the transitive property that Westminster and CMU deserve to be ranked ahead of W&J because of the respective results against TMC (two were competitive, one wasn't close) but we can wait for the respective head-to-head matchups.

Tier 3:

6. St. Vincent
7. Geneva
8. Thiel
9. Bethany
10. Waynesburg
11. Grove City

This sorts out pretty cleanly.  SVC has beaten Geneva and Thiel.  Geneva has beaten Thiel and Bethany.  Thiel has beaten Bethany.  Not really sure whether Bethany is better than Waynesburg and Grove City...we'll see on them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Posted this earlier, but asked and answered:

PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Posted this earlier, but asked and answered:

PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]

I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 03, 2016, 12:18:22 PM
Great breakdown and analysis -- thank you. 

A couple big games this week to better define the landscape:

Carnegie Mellon @ Washington and Jefferson
St.Vincent @ Westminster

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 02, 2016, 02:06:18 PM
Interesting day around the league yesterday.

Carnegie Mellon 49, Bethany 26: I was fortunate to take in most of the CMU-Bethany game, and it went about according to the expected script (despite a 30-minute delay halfway through the first quarter due to lightning in the area).   Bethany has some impressive athletes on both sides of the ball, but is lacking discipline, especially on defense; the Tartans exploited several breakdowns for big offensive plays.  RB Benger (174 yards, 4 TD) and WR Prather (125 yards, 2 TD) were the offensive centerpiece, as usual.  Benger had two "one play touchdown drives" (49 and 55 yard runs that came on the first play of the possession).  Another impressive weapon for CMU is freshman KR/PR William Richter - he had several excellent returns and set the Tartans up with really great field position almost every time he touched the ball.  Listed as an RB, I'm not sure how much Richter will get on the field in regular offensive packages due to the presence of Benger, but I've been very impressed by Richter's return skills in both games that I've seen.  Quick feet, decisive runner, appears to have some wheels in the open field.  Should be a useful playmaker in a special-teams role this year and could be an heir apparent to Benger down the line.  Huge game for the Tartans next week with W&J.

Thomas More 45, Westminster 35: TMC has rebounded from a week 1 ding against Franklin to take down all of their top PAC challengers in a row.  I'm not sure how much I would like this schedule as a TMC fan - it's nice to have the league basically sewn up by mid-October, as the Saints really should not be challenged for the remainder of the regular season, but going into the playoffs after this stretch...would you rather be a little better tested at the end of the season?  Oh, and then there's the elephant in the room...there's one more "challenger" remaining that they won't get to play...

Case Western 53, St. Vincent 28: after seeing both of these teams live last year, I am not at all surprised that Case won the battle of unbeatens here, and realistically CWRU should be 7-0 going into a tough closing stretch with WashU (not PAC, but still, tough game) and then Westminster and CMU.  I don't know what the tiebreaker will be if CWRU and TMC both finish league play undefeated but presumably Thomas More will want to avoid that mess by rooting for Westminster/CMU when the time comes.  Of course, Case can root for TMC opponents too, but it's not likely to do very much good.

W&J 62, Thiel 14: Presidents lick their wounds after taking it on the chin from Thomas More a few weeks ago with a blowout win.  Big game against CMU coming up next week - will be very telling for both teams.

Waynesberg 14, Grove City 10: Poor Grove City battled to the whistle (ended the game with the ball, down 14-10, on the Waynesburg 40) but their futility continues (after many years of consistent-mid-pack finishes in the PAC, hovering between 3-7 in bad years and 6-4 in good ones, they have lost 25 straight games).  Meanwhile, Waynesburg also is trying to rebound from an uncharacteristically bad 2015 (their 3-7 finish was their first losing season since 2005) so it is nice to get a win, but a 14-10 win over winless Grove City to break a four-game losing streak is probably not what they've had in mind...part of this can be attributed to opening league play with three of the PAC's better teams, but that's little comfort to a program that's used to thinking of itself as one of the PAC's better teams.

Now that we've got some league play, I'll take a crack at my first PAC rankings of the season.

Tier 1:

1. Thomas More

With wins over W&J, Carnegie Mellon, and Westminster already in their pocket...I think they stand alone for now.

Tier 2:

2. Case Western
3. W&J
4. Westminster
5. Carnegie Mellon

CWRU is 4-0 and should coast along until playing Westminster and CMU to close the season. W&J has taken one beating from Thomas More but otherwise rolled; their game with CMU this week will help sort out Tier 2.  Westminster and CMU both played very gamely against Thomas More but lost.  They will each get chances for redemption against W&J and CWRU in the weeks to come.  You certainly can argue via the transitive property that Westminster and CMU deserve to be ranked ahead of W&J because of the respective results against TMC (two were competitive, one wasn't close) but we can wait for the respective head-to-head matchups.

Tier 3:

6. St. Vincent
7. Geneva
8. Thiel
9. Bethany
10. Waynesburg
11. Grove City

This sorts out pretty cleanly.  SVC has beaten Geneva and Thiel.  Geneva has beaten Thiel and Bethany.  Thiel has beaten Bethany.  Not really sure whether Bethany is better than Waynesburg and Grove City...we'll see on them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 03, 2016, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.
Get a 12th team, play two divisions with conference championship.
Tie-breaker issue solved.

Allegheny
John Carroll
Defiance
Capital
Hiram
Marietta
Muskingum
Oberlin
Otterbein
Wooster

Have no idea about interest from any of them but most are between current PAC core and TMC geographically (Allegheny & JC not).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 01:42:56 PM
Historical note:  JCU, Allegheny, and Hiram all have been PAC members.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 03, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
One more interesting historical note -- Case Western Reserve has been a founding member in five conferences:

OAC
MAC
PAC
NCAC
UAA

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 04, 2016, 08:24:55 AM
Does the "Big Four" count as a conference?

If so, then one could add that to the list as well!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 05, 2016, 01:00:44 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 04, 2016, 08:24:55 AM
Does the "Big Four" count as a conference?

If so, then one could add that to the list as well!

Perhaps we can.  I understand it to have lasted from 1933 -1942.

Here's a cool picture of Baldwin Wallace vs Western Reserve during the Big Four heyday: https://twitter.com/thiswascle/status/721401444021063680?s=09

On October 19 would come the big game of the season, a Big Four contest pitting the Yellow Jackets
against Western Reserve's Red Cats before 21,000 at Cleveland's League Park. The game would be
pitting the passing attack of B-W against Reserve's formidable running game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 05, 2016, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 03, 2016, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.
Get a 12th team, play two divisions with conference championship.
Tie-breaker issue solved.

Maybe that solves your tiebreak problem, but it introduces a way bigger problem- the problem where you let some team other than the best team in the league over the course of an entire regular season represent your league in the tournament. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2016, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Posted this earlier, but asked and answered:

PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]

I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.

True, but I don't see a 9-1 TMC or 10-0 CWRU not making the field.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 05, 2016, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 05, 2016, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Posted this earlier, but asked and answered:

PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]

I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.

True, but I don't see a 9-1 TMC or 10-0 CWRU not making the field.
One of the two will TMC will either be heading back to Franklin or Mount Union and CWRU playing Witt or a rematch with Wabash.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 05, 2016, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 05, 2016, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 05, 2016, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Posted this earlier, but asked and answered:

PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]

I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.

True, but I don't see a 9-1 TMC or 10-0 CWRU not making the field.
One of the two will TMC will either be heading back to Franklin or Mount Union and CWRU playing Witt or a rematch with Wabash.

These are definite possibilities.  But CWRU is in an area where a lot of teams can go play there (1st round) and they can go play at a lot of other places (later rounds).  CWRU can certainly fit into a pod with Eastern teams, so games with teams to their west aren't necessarily a given. 

Wabash needs to play better and get some help over the last six weeks here to get back into the party. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 05, 2016, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 05, 2016, 01:06:55 PM
Maybe that solves your tiebreak problem, but it introduces a way bigger problem- the problem where you let some team other than the best team in the league over the course of an entire regular season represent your league in the tournament.
Why does it, by necessity, "let some team other than the best..." in the tournament?
And, how does the current "don't play everyone and hope we don't need the tie-breaker" not do the exact thing you're worried about?

Win your division, play the other division's winner, to the victor go the spoils.  To the vanquished, weeping, gnashing of teeth and a winter thinking "what if...."

Honestly, I don't see the problem with deciding who gets the NCAA AQ on the field.
No debate, no ranking/rating systems, no three degrees of separation comparitives.
One thing, one thing only:  Who won the PAC Championship Game?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2016, 06:49:38 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 05, 2016, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 05, 2016, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 05, 2016, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Posted this earlier, but asked and answered:

PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]

I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.

True, but I don't see a 9-1 TMC or 10-0 CWRU not making the field.
One of the two will TMC will either be heading back to Franklin or Mount Union and CWRU playing Witt or a rematch with Wabash.

These are definite possibilities.  But CWRU is in an area where a lot of teams can go play there (1st round) and they can go play at a lot of other places (later rounds).  CWRU can certainly fit into a pod with Eastern teams, so games with teams to their west aren't necessarily a given. 

Wabash needs to play better and get some help over the last six weeks here to get back into the party.

And while we are at it; though Thomas More has already played who was thought to be the strongest teams on their schedule already (by preseason prognosticators), they are hardly a shoo-in for 9-1.  They still have to win 5 more games to have a shot. 

If the season ended this past week, then they'd have the PAC Auto Berth but they are still 5 PAC games from being able to consider that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2016, 06:50:17 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 05, 2016, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 05, 2016, 01:06:55 PM
Maybe that solves your tiebreak problem, but it introduces a way bigger problem- the problem where you let some team other than the best team in the league over the course of an entire regular season represent your league in the tournament.
Why does it, by necessity, "let some team other than the best..." in the tournament?
And, how does the current "don't play everyone and hope we don't need the tie-breaker" not do the exact thing you're worried about?

Win your division, play the other division's winner, to the victor go the spoils.  To the vanquished, weeping, gnashing of teeth and a winter thinking "what if...."

Honestly, I don't see the problem with deciding who gets the NCAA AQ on the field.
No debate, no ranking/rating systems, no three degrees of separation comparitives.
One thing, one thing only:  Who won the PAC Championship Game?

I like it. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2016, 06:52:23 AM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 05, 2016, 01:29:48 PM
One of the two will TMC will either be heading back to Franklin or Mount Union and CWRU playing Witt or a rematch with Wabash.

or a trip TO the ODAC Champion for Thomas More.  There are alot of possibilities if they are included in this year's Tournament.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 06, 2016, 08:50:21 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2016, 06:49:38 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 05, 2016, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 05, 2016, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 05, 2016, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 03, 2016, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
Posted this earlier, but asked and answered:

PAC tiebreaker

Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.  [Emphasis added]

I would think #3 would favor TMC with Case not playing W&J.

True, but I don't see a 9-1 TMC or 10-0 CWRU not making the field.
One of the two will TMC will either be heading back to Franklin or Mount Union and CWRU playing Witt or a rematch with Wabash.

These are definite possibilities.  But CWRU is in an area where a lot of teams can go play there (1st round) and they can go play at a lot of other places (later rounds).  CWRU can certainly fit into a pod with Eastern teams, so games with teams to their west aren't necessarily a given. 

Wabash needs to play better and get some help over the last six weeks here to get back into the party.

And while we are at it; though Thomas More has already played who was thought to be the strongest teams on their schedule already (by preseason prognosticators), they are hardly a shoo-in for 9-1.  They still have to win 5 more games to have a shot. 

If the season ended this past week, then they'd have the PAC Auto Berth but they are still 5 PAC games from being able to consider that.

And I wasn't counting either team's 'chickens' yet either.  Just that those are the likely records if tie breaker came into play. CWRU's remaining schedule looks much tougher than TMC's (and they have six games remaining).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 06, 2016, 09:54:20 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 05, 2016, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 05, 2016, 01:06:55 PM
Maybe that solves your tiebreak problem, but it introduces a way bigger problem- the problem where you let some team other than the best team in the league over the course of an entire regular season represent your league in the tournament.
Why does it, by necessity, "let some team other than the best..." in the tournament?
And, how does the current "don't play everyone and hope we don't need the tie-breaker" not do the exact thing you're worried about?

Win your division, play the other division's winner, to the victor go the spoils.  To the vanquished, weeping, gnashing of teeth and a winter thinking "what if...."

Honestly, I don't see the problem with deciding who gets the NCAA AQ on the field.
No debate, no ranking/rating systems, no three degrees of separation comparitives.
One thing, one thing only:  Who won the PAC Championship Game?

It doesn't by necessity, but it opens the door to that possibility.  Sure, you'll have many seasons where you get a week 11 championship game with two 6-0 or 7-0 division winners playing in a game to "settle it on the field" but then you're going to have years where an undefeated division winner plays a multiple loss division winner...we all know who the PAC should be sending to the postseason in that scenario, but this extra game invites the opportunity for the weaker team to catch lightning in a bottle and knock out the league's best team before they even get a chance to play in the postseason and your 7-4 league "champion" is off to Alliance.  Even worse is the scenario where you get a regular season rematch (I assume there would be cross-division play as part of this arrangement)...why should the league's best team have to beat somebody twice to qualify? Or the better question is why should the team that lost earlier get to qualify simply for evening the season series? 

This divisional system does eliminate the hand wringing over tiebreaks, but it has plenty of its own drawbacks.  There's just not a clean way to do this once teams start losing and you have to deal with ties.  Or in the PAC's case, when you have too many teams to go full round robin. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2016, 08:24:42 PM
I remember when the PresAC was a Pool B conference...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2016, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2016, 09:54:20 AM
...you're going to have years where an undefeated division winner plays a multiple loss division winner...we all know who the PAC should be sending to the postseason in that scenario, but this extra game invites the opportunity for the weaker team to catch lightning in a bottle and knock out the league's best team before they even get a chance to play in the postseason and your 7-4 league "champion" is off to Alliance. 
How do we all know who PAC should send?  The unbeaten division winner ruled a dog-awful division and the multiple loss winner had to battle through the teams that have pointed to this year as THE year....How does that make the unbeaten division winner the best team, the team deserving of the AQ?
Under the current format, it does.  And, it's quite possible that that team would have been a multiple loss team had they actually played everybody in the league.

Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2016, 09:54:20 AM
Even worse is the scenario where you get a regular season rematch (I assume there would be cross-division play as part of this arrangement)...why should the league's best team have to beat somebody twice to qualify? Or the better question is why should the team that lost earlier get to qualify simply for evening the season series? 
Why is that worse?  If the system is laid out prior to any games being played, everybody knows that if you win your division, you could play a team you've already played.  And, if you beat them, you have to beat them again.  And the answer to your "better question" is that the team that lost a crossover game earlier was good enough to win its division and now plays for the PAC title against the other division winner, whoever it is.

I've railed against this crazy setup since the day it was announced that CWRU & CMU were returning to the PAC for football only.  It's a mess and does not have to be this way.  Either you stay at a level where everybody plays everybody else, or you go to the level where you have two divisions and play a championship game. 

One day, in this mess, you'll get this (substituting any team name):  W&J will lose its 3 OOC games, run the table in its PAC games (and they don't play CWRU & TMC.  Meanwhile, TMC beats CWRU who beats Westminster who beats TMC, giving each of them at least one loss in PAC play and W&J is your multiple loss AQ team heading to Alliance, meanwhile we all know TMC or CWRU was the team that should get the PAC AQ...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2016, 07:09:28 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2016, 08:24:42 PM
I remember when the PresAC was a Pool B conference...

And dominated by W&J
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 07, 2016, 08:58:33 AM
Lots of conferences (OAC and NCAC nearby) have only one OOC game and most PAC teams are currently playing a PAC team that doesn't count in standings. While I would prefer that CWRU continue to play its UAA partners after next season, a ninth PAC game would ameliorate the current situation and the one Bob described. Right now PAC has five 'haves' and six 'have-nots.' Make the top five play each other and problem solved until the balance of power changes.

Back when NCAC wasn't playing a full round robin it used some kind of 'power formula' for scheduling. One year it had a 'Kenyon problem' when the Lords didn't play either Witt or 'Bash, but with nine conference games that situation shouldn't happen.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 07, 2016, 09:03:30 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 07, 2016, 07:09:28 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 06, 2016, 08:24:42 PM
I remember when the PresAC was a Pool B conference...

And dominated by W&J

I remember when (1982) Hiram won the PAC
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 07, 2016, 10:40:03 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2016, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 06, 2016, 09:54:20 AM
Even worse is the scenario where you get a regular season rematch (I assume there would be cross-division play as part of this arrangement)...why should the league's best team have to beat somebody twice to qualify? Or the better question is why should the team that lost earlier get to qualify simply for evening the season series? 
Why is that worse?  If the system is laid out prior to any games being played, everybody knows that if you win your division, you could play a team you've already played.  And, if you beat them, you have to beat them again.  And the answer to your "better question" is that the team that lost a crossover game earlier was good enough to win its division and now plays for the PAC title against the other division winner, whoever it is.

It's worse because the door is open to have a team that has had the best season not go in.  I don't like conference tournaments in basketball for the same reason.  In D-I, these football conference championship games and basketball conference tournaments serve a purpose- $$$.  There's no such incentive to do this in D3.  There's no D-I football tournament to analogize here, but in D-1 basketball, there's plenty of spots available in the tournament for regular season league champions that get upset in the league tournaments.  The tournament isn't adversely affected (though you feel for some of the low-major conference champions who get snubbed).  In our D-3 football tournament, if you catch an upset in your conference championship game, there's no safety net.  The loser of that game is probably out.  I don't disagree that if everybody is on board with the idea of divisions and understands that they could have a great season completely derailed by this extra, completely elective game, then fine.  Everybody knows the rules and agreed to it.  But I think this divisional situation has way more opportunity for unfavorable outcomes than the occasional weird tiebreak does. 

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2016, 10:07:20 PM
I've railed against this crazy setup since the day it was announced that CWRU & CMU were returning to the PAC for football only.  It's a mess and does not have to be this way.  Either you stay at a level where everybody plays everybody else, or you go to the level where you have two divisions and play a championship game. 

Agree.  11 is the worst number.  I do think the problem is one too many teams rather than one too few though. 

Quote from: ADL70 on October 07, 2016, 08:58:33 AM
Back when NCAC wasn't playing a full round robin it used some kind of 'power formula' for scheduling. One year it had a 'Kenyon problem' when the Lords didn't play either Witt or 'Bash, but with nine conference games that situation shouldn't happen.

Hated the power ranking system, BUT I will say that for all of the teeth gnashing that was done over said system, it more or less made sure that the legit contenders were playing one another every year.   Yes, Kenyon almost backdoored their way to a couple of shared championships (2005, 2012), but those weird instances were few and far between and less likely, IMO, to produce an out-of-place champion.  This year's PAC schedule creates the "Kenyon" problem, only it seems like this could have been avoided by making sure CWRU plays TMC and W&J as opposed to making sure that, say, Grove City plays TMC and W&J (and Westminster and CWRU).  The power ranking system also "worked" for the NCAC because there was really very little movement between tiers- the top 2-3 teams were the same every year, the bottom 2-3 teams were the same every year, and those were really the teams that the whole thing was designed to keep away from one another.  In a league like the PAC where I feel like there's a little more parity, particularly through the middle half of the league, it might not work as cleanly (relatively speaking) as it did in the NCAC. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2016, 10:59:50 AM
I'm not a huge fan of conference championship games either, BUT as schools continue to add and join to football in DIII we are reaching critical mass. I get that the conference championship games exist in DI for money, but they may serve the same purpose in DIII. Not to make money, but to avoid the tournament expanding and costing more. If we want to keep a few Pool C bids around, and I believe we should have at least a few, it increasingly looks like we are going to have to raise the conference access ratio for AQs. Not to 12 obviously. But conferences with 12, who have a conference championship game, are helping stave off that possibility. With the PAC/MAC heading toward 10+ a piece, it's not even all that geographically hard to cut them into 3 conferences (traditions aside of course, which is more difficult than geography in this case).

Is this an immediate problem? No. But it creeps closer all the time as schools continue to announce new or reinstated programs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 07, 2016, 11:15:06 AM
Raising the access ratio is an interesting thing and something that I think is probably going to happen. 

Re: the endangered species that is the Pool C bid- if we had 32 qualifying conferences, I'd be perfectly fine with the national championship tournament being strictly a tournament of champions.  I would also have to find a new hobby.   :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on October 07, 2016, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 07, 2016, 11:15:06 AM
Raising the access ratio is an interesting thing and something that I think is probably going to happen. 

Re: the endangered species that is the Pool C bid- if we had 32 qualifying conferences, I'd be perfectly fine with the national championship tournament being strictly a tournament of champions.  I would also have to find a new hobby.   :)

I like having a bit of wiggle room, but I don't think it really needs to be more than 2 or 3 slots before it goes critical. I also think there will always be some number of independents, might even be a significant number of "B" schools if the access ratio goes up at times. So you don't really want to see 32/32. Everyone should have some kind of path. I'll just say I think it goes critical around 28/29 AQ conferences.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 08, 2016, 02:16:56 PM
49-7 Thomas More over Grove City with 6 minutes left in the 3rd Quarter. 

Grove City has since scored but it was after Thomas More substituted their backups on defense.  I like they are getting the young guys meaningful time but there's no way Grove City scores 14 points or more on the varsity Thomas More defense. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 08, 2016, 04:01:39 PM
Carnegie Mellon leading 35-21 with three minutes to go in the 3rd qtr, ruining that W and J homecoming to date

http://www.sidearmstats.com/washjeff/football/

EDIT: overtime battle right now!!!

Tied 49-49 .  Going into 2nd OT
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 08, 2016, 05:57:35 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 08, 2016, 04:01:39 PM
Carnegie Mellon leading 35-21 with three minutes to go in the 3rd qtr, ruining that W and J homecoming to date

http://www.sidearmstats.com/washjeff/football/

EDIT: overtime battle right now!!!

Tied 49-49 .  Going into 2nd OT
W&J 55
CMU 52
2OT FINAL

Pete Coughlin throws his 7th TD pass, fourth to Jesse Zubik to win it after Bengor is stopped three times from inside the 5 and CMU kicks FG to open 2nd OT.
CMU hasn't won in Washington since 1982.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 08, 2016, 06:15:11 PM
Great win for the Presidents and I'm sure the alums enjoyed this more than the normal homecoming blowouts of most years.

Bob, to be fair there was a long stretch when the teams didn't play anywhere!

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 08, 2016, 08:37:50 PM
WJ68, that's very true. 
That was CMU's choice following the 1989 season.
And, following that choice, W&J went to the NCAA in 20 of the next 25 seasons.
CMU took nearly 20 years to make it after that choice.

W&J has now won six of the last seven between the two, however long it's been.
And, to be fair, CMU is the ONLY current PAC member who has played W&J more than a dozen times and holds a winning record against them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 09, 2016, 01:23:43 AM
Outstanding game in Washington today (yesterday, by now...)

I'll post more of a recap later, after I get some sleep.  Really an outstanding Division III football game, even with both teams just about out of the title picture having already lost to Thomas More...both teams absolutely left it all out there.  The game had it all - big momentum swings, key special teams plays...just an all around fantastic game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 09, 2016, 12:45:36 PM
Saw some pictures on FB from yesterday's homecomimg activites. Roger Goodell took some time to come back for his 35th class reunion.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 14, 2016, 12:22:21 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 09, 2016, 12:45:36 PM
Saw some pictures on FB from yesterday's homecomimg activites. Roger Goodell took some time to come back for his 35th class reunion.

Just read your post and very cool.  I didn't realize Goodell went to W & J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2016, 02:44:15 PM
We are really set up for an interesting stretch run, are we not?  Here's how I'd rank the teams today:

1) Thomas More has run the gauntlet and looks well-positioned to finish undefeated in league play.

2) Case Western is undefeated and largely untested to date.  Last year they were in this position also and certainly showed very well, beating W&J before falling in a very close one vs. Thomas More, then losing a shootout to Carnegie Mellon in the Academic Bowl.  As we've been saying all along, the possibility does exist for a pair of undefeated teams in league play...however, our 4th and 5th teams might have something to say about that yet.

3) W&J survived a test from Bethany last night...I don't really have a good explanation for that one other than possible malaise.  Bethany does have some good athletes, but having seen both teams live against CMU, that should have been a blowout win for the Presidents, or at least a comfortable shootout victory instead of a one-point win.

4) Westminster is in a nice spot at 5-1 with three games coming up against the other quality teams: W&J, @CMU, CWRU.  Sweeping all three of those would actually give them an outside shot at a playoff berth...the Titans made major progress last year, this is a chance to really establish themselves firmly as a top-tier league contender.

5) Carnegie Mellon is at 3-3 with three very close losses to three very good teams (overtime vs. 5-1 SAA leader WashU; 20-16 against Thomas More; overtime against W&J).  I look for the Tartans to nose their way over the .500 mark next week vs. Thiel, then they'll have a pair of very interesting games with Westminster and Case Western.  Similar comment to Westminster: really nice season last year, need to capture at least one of the CWRU or Westminster games to establish that they firmly belong in the "top echelon" of the league.

As I posted on the Pool C board earlier today, the TMC / CWRU situation creates some intrigue with all of the down-ballot games, so to speak.  I can't totally parse it out just yet but any result between W&J  / Westminster / CMU has the potential to matter, as well as games for the rest of those teams (i.e. it would have helped Case greatly if Bethany actually beat W&J, because right now the biggest problem Case will have is the possibility that W&J finishes alone in third place in the league; if that happens, by my reading of ADL70's tiebreaker rule post, I think TMC gets the tiebreaker by virtue of being 1-0 against the third-place team while Case will be 0-0.  Similarly, it would have helped Case if CMU had beaten W&J).

That's pretty clearly the top echelon of the league.  Beneath that there's a pretty big step down...

6) St. Vincent is probably the best of the rest, but with two decisive losses against Case and Westminster, I don't think they are a serious threat to TMC or W&J in the next two weeks.  However, they certainly have a chance to make their statement and prove they belong in that discussion with the top five teams above.

7) Waynesburg has rebounded a little from last year's disappointment, but still remains well below the program standard.  Didn't even stay close in the games against the league's top dogs, and eked out close wins against GCC and Geneva.  Gotta beat Thiel and St. Vincent if they want to show genuine progress this season.

8) Geneva has a pair of wins...I hadn't paid much attention to this team until I watched some of the stream against CMU last night.  Really weird team offensively.  I love the triple option offense, but it seems like they have nothing else to turn to (how do you lose a relatively competitive / close game, 29-10, that was 17-10 in the third quarter...without any sort of passing game to turn to in the fourth quarter?  The lead grew to 20-10 and then 27-10 and Geneva, who only had about 100 yards of total offense in the entire game, still had to stay with the triple option! Just a strange game).

9) Thiel seems to have made some progress from last year.  They're scoring some points, and they've been much more competitive this year than most of last season.  Should have a chance for at least 2 more wins.

10) Bethany is a high-ceiling, low-floor team.  I'll never be able to figure out how these guys can take W&J to the wire in the same season that they lost to both Geneva and Thiel.  Lots of athletes, lots of offense, terrible discipline, no defense.

11) Grove City is still in the basement for now.  Defense can't stop anybody.  They will have their best chance(s) for a win in the last three games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 16, 2016, 08:21:02 PM
I've been happy to see Coach Debs focused more on letting younger players play than trying add extra scores once the game in solidified.

Check out the box scores these past two games for the 4th quarter:

SCORING                                 1    2     3    4   FINAL
Thiel (2-4)                               3     6    6    6    21
Case Western Reserve (6-0)     13   14   21   0   48


SCORING                                 1   2   3   4   FINAL
Case Western Reserve (5-0)     7   13   17 0    37
Bethany (1-5)                         7    0    0   7    14

I don't believe Cuda has played in the 4th quarter either of the past two games.  Interesting to note, freshman QB Julian Kinard has played in all six games this season, alongside other young prospects on both defense and offense.

On that note, I'm looking forward to how Case Western Reserve responds in these last four games, which will test the starters for four quarters. 

The week eight matchup against 1-loss Washington University at St. Louis is beginning to look increasingly interesting.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 21, 2016, 02:48:44 AM
Case Western Reserve feature by Joe Sager...injuries have definitely been a bummer:

New look for CWRU, but strong results


Case Western Reserve is right where it wants to be at this point in the season – unbeaten and tied atop the PAC standings with Thomas More.

LINK http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2016/new-look-strong-results-case-western-reserve
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2016, 06:58:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 16, 2016, 08:21:02 PM
The week eight matchup against 1-loss Washington University at St. Louis is beginning to look increasingly interesting.

Yes, but it's actually the least important game remaining for CWRU.  Spartans will have to beat CMU and Westminster to secure a share of the PAC title.  And, make no mistake, those teams are every bit as dangerous as WashU.

Although...winning the WashU game would be a critical piece of an at-large resume if TMC would win the tiebreaker (it's hard to imagine an undefeated team ever being left out in Pool C; but a 9-1 CWRU with zero wins over regionally-ranked opponents would be very vulnerable).  10-0 matters, and holding a win against a regionally-ranked WashU team would be a nice thing to have in your back pocket.  Which means that you need WashU to otherwise run the table and share/win the SAA title, too.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2016, 01:46:57 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2016, 06:58:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 16, 2016, 08:21:02 PM
The week eight matchup against 1-loss Washington University at St. Louis is beginning to look increasingly interesting.

Yes, but it's actually the least important game remaining for CWRU.  Spartans will have to beat CMU and Westminster to secure a share of the PAC title.  And, make no mistake, those teams are every bit as dangerous as WashU.

Although...winning the WashU game would be a critical piece of an at-large resume if TMC would win the tiebreaker (it's hard to imagine an undefeated team ever being left out in Pool C; but a 9-1 CWRU with zero wins over regionally-ranked opponents would be very vulnerable).  10-0 matters, and holding a win against a regionally-ranked WashU team would be a nice thing to have in your back pocket.  Which means that you need WashU to otherwise run the table and share/win the SAA title, too.

This. 

Question for EXTP or Pat - has there ever been a 10-0 non auto qualifier?  I don't think its happened in the D3 era.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on October 21, 2016, 01:50:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2016, 01:46:57 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2016, 06:58:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 16, 2016, 08:21:02 PM
The week eight matchup against 1-loss Washington University at St. Louis is beginning to look increasingly interesting.

Yes, but it's actually the least important game remaining for CWRU.  Spartans will have to beat CMU and Westminster to secure a share of the PAC title.  And, make no mistake, those teams are every bit as dangerous as WashU.

Although...winning the WashU game would be a critical piece of an at-large resume if TMC would win the tiebreaker (it's hard to imagine an undefeated team ever being left out in Pool C; but a 9-1 CWRU with zero wins over regionally-ranked opponents would be very vulnerable).  10-0 matters, and holding a win against a regionally-ranked WashU team would be a nice thing to have in your back pocket.  Which means that you need WashU to otherwise run the table and share/win the SAA title, too.

This. 

Question for EXTP or Pat - has there ever been a 10-0 non auto qualifier?  I don't think its happened in the D3 era.

I think we looked at this a few years ago when Centre went 10-0 against a very weak schedule and decided it hadn't happened.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 21, 2016, 02:59:07 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2016, 01:46:57 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2016, 06:58:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 16, 2016, 08:21:02 PM
The week eight matchup against 1-loss Washington University at St. Louis is beginning to look increasingly interesting.

Yes, but it's actually the least important game remaining for CWRU.  Spartans will have to beat CMU and Westminster to secure a share of the PAC title.  And, make no mistake, those teams are every bit as dangerous as WashU.

Although...winning the WashU game would be a critical piece of an at-large resume if TMC would win the tiebreaker (it's hard to imagine an undefeated team ever being left out in Pool C; but a 9-1 CWRU with zero wins over regionally-ranked opponents would be very vulnerable).  10-0 matters, and holding a win against a regionally-ranked WashU team would be a nice thing to have in your back pocket.  Which means that you need WashU to otherwise run the table and share/win the SAA title, too.

This. 

Question for EXTP or Pat - has there ever been a 10-0 non auto qualifier?  I don't think its happened in the D3 era.

Not that I'm aware of.  Certainly plenty of 10-0 non AQs that have come from non-qualifying leagues (as was the case with Centre and the SAA a few years ago) or independents (Wesley, a bunch of times).  A 10-0 Pool A conference co-champion isn't a thing that I recall having ever happened. 

@ WashU, @ Westminster, vs. CMU is a tough stretch to end on.  CWRU isn't anywhere close to in the barn yet. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2016, 03:38:00 PM
45-7 Thomas More leads SVC with 6:58 left.  Time for the reserves. 

Very good win at SVC after the close game last year, which was also at SVC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 22, 2016, 06:22:22 PM
Watched most of the Westminster/W&J game. W&J won two very close games in a row. No magic today. Westminster shut down W&J's offense with six sacks, limited W&J's ground game to 71 yards and intercepted Coughlin three times. W&J's defense kept them in the game but gave up 233 yards rushing and 337 total yards.. Westminster improves their record versus W&J to 3-32 lifetime.

Spent some time on Westminster's web site. They have improved dramatically under coach Scott Benzel and I predict if he sticks around they will become a force not only in the PAC but regionally and perhaps even nationally. They have 128 on their roster of whom 85 are freshmen. They have 24 players from Florida alone and are recruiting heavily in the DC area and who knows where else. I can see CWRU and CMU having broad based recruiting because they are larger schools with a national footprint but I'm not aware of any other PAC school that compares with Westminster when it comes to recruiting geography.  Even Thomas More sticks pretty close to home.

So the PAC has evolved from years of domination by one school, a period where there were two schools dominating, to today where their are 5 quality programs in the conference. Life in the PAC could get very interesting going forward.

Westminster has CMU and CWRU coming up. As Ex Tartan said, both are in for a real test. W&J needs one more win to have it's 33rd consecutive winning season. They finish with St Vincent, Geneva and Waynesburg so it looks like they will continue the streak. I'm sure Sirianni and his staff will will get them motivated every week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on October 22, 2016, 09:26:51 PM
What is the south Florida connection?  Westminster has a bunch of kids from around Miami and Fort Lauderdale including American Heritage (my kids school).  One of the Westminster freshmen was a team mate of my younger two sons (lacrosse).  Other than Walter I don't know any of the other Westminster players but some pretty good players come out of this area. 

I am surprised to see so many FL on a D3 roster.  So many kids around here have a D1 or bust attitude.  It could mean good things of Westminster's future. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 22, 2016, 10:13:17 PM
Nail biter in Cleveland.  Geneva controlled the ball and throttled Burke's rushing. Spartan D had a CB playing S and another playing OLB, don't know if from injury, or best personnel to defense the triple option, GTs took opening KO and drove 75 yds on 15 plays in 8:48, but didn't score again until the closing minutes.

Cuda was limited to short passes by 22 mph winds.

PAC Commish was interviewed during the broadcast and said that coaches voted before the season and tie first breaker is "W/L % of teams you beat."  Assuming he meant conf w/l, all you have to look at is the team you didn't play. If CWRU and TMC win out, and W&J has better record than Geneva, then TMC gets AQ,  if Geneva, then CWRU gets AQ.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2016, 10:14:18 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 22, 2016, 06:22:22 PM
Watched most of the Westminster/W&J game. W&J won two very close games in a row. No magic today. Westminster shut down W&J's offense with six sacks, limited W&J's ground game to 71 yards and intercepted Coughlin three times. W&J's defense kept them in the game but gave up 233 yards rushing and 337 total yards.. Westminster improves their record versus W&J to 3-32 lifetime.

Spent some time on Westminster's web site. They have improved dramatically under coach Scott Benzel and I predict if he sticks around they will become a force not only in the PAC but regionally and perhaps even nationally. They have 128 on their roster of whom 85 are freshmen. They have 24 players from Florida alone and are recruiting heavily in the DC area and who knows where else. I can see CWRU and CMU having broad based recruiting because they are larger schools with a national footprint but I'm not aware of any other PAC school that compares with Westminster when it comes to recruiting geography.  Even Thomas More sticks pretty close to home.

So the PAC has evolved from years of domination by one school, a period where there were two schools dominating, to today where their are 5 quality programs in the conference. Life in the PAC could get very interesting going forward.

Westminster has CMU and CWRU coming up. As Ex Tartan said, both are in for a real test. W&J needs one more win to have it's 33rd consecutive winning season. They finish with St Vincent, Geneva and Waynesburg so it looks like they will continue the streak. I'm sure Sirianni and his staff will will get them motivated every week.

Thomas More has just started recruiting Florida.  They have a freshman RB from down there who scored a TD a couple weeks ago.  This offseason will mark the 3rd one they've been down there.  They also have a good relationship with schools in GA.  Not to mention they are newly in the Cleveland area too.  This will be very interesting to see what happens if they can add the kids from the South to the best from Indy and Cincy -
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 23, 2016, 08:25:48 PM
Case Western Reseve has broken into the Top 25

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2016/week8

TMC #13

EDiT: Westminster ranked in this poll as well http://m.herosports.com/d3-football-rankings
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
Can't really call it a poll if there aren't voters and votes. It's a ranking, not a poll.
#copyeditorpetpeeve
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2016, 04:09:43 PM
In Division I, similar rankings are referred to as polls, i.e., "the ESPN Coaches' Poll," etc.

In addition to being #25 in the d3football.com poll, CWRU is also #19 in the herosports.com rankings.

http://herosports.com/d3-football

I sure hope that CWRU can pull off these last three wins and get back in the playoffs.  That, and a Tribe victory in the World Series (coming off an NBA title from the Cavs) would make Cleveland a pretty darned good sports town (Browns excluded), eh?

;)

:P
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 24, 2016, 08:39:16 PM
A few days late, but Carnegie Mellon's Rich Lackner won career game #200 in his 31st season at the helm. 

We had a brief pregame ceremony honoring the 2006 CMU team, which went 11-1 and won a first-round playoff game against Millsaps before falling to Wesley.  We also held the third annual Carnegie Mellon football alumni banquet in the evening, something I helped plan and hope to continue as an annual event.

On the field, the game went about as expected.  Thiel is definitely improved from last season, especially on offense, but they couldn't stop the Tartans.  Carnegie Mellon was never really threatened once they got out to the lead, but also never really put the game away until very late.  Thiel QB Ryan Radke was impressive, as was RB Nick Barca.  CMU's offense was led by the usual suspects: Benger went over 1,000 yards for the season, with 130 yards and 4 touchdowns.  Sophomore RB Rory Hubbard contributed 109 combined rushing and receiving yards.  WR Matt Forjan had a career day with 139 yards and a touchdown; Prather chipped in 60 yards.

Couple of interesting results around the league.  Westminster over W&J is a big one.  CWRU struggled with Geneva.  Several interesting games ahead in the next few weeks.  Won't be able to attend, but interested to see what happens with CMU vs. Westminster this coming weekend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2016, 10:36:12 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2016, 04:09:43 PM
In Division I, similar rankings are referred to as polls, i.e., "the ESPN Coaches' Poll," etc.

In addition to being #25 in the d3football.com poll, CWRU is also #19 in the herosports.com rankings.

http://herosports.com/d3-football

I sure hope that CWRU can pull off these last three wins and get back in the playoffs.  That, and a Tribe victory in the World Series (coming off an NBA title from the Cavs) would make Cleveland a pretty darned good sports town (Browns excluded), eh?

;)

:P
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 25, 2016, 07:11:52 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 24, 2016, 04:09:43 PM
In Division I, similar rankings are referred to as polls, i.e., "the ESPN Coaches' Poll," etc.


Not following the connection here -- the ESPN Coaches' Poll has multiple people who actually vote.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 25, 2016, 07:57:37 PM
Pat,

I thought that the d3football rankings were voted upon by a group of 25 different people.  Do they not all have a vote, much as the voters in other rankings that are commonly known as "polls" do?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 25, 2016, 08:15:30 PM
When you poll, do you poll one person? That's why we refer to multiple-person polls as polls and single-person and computer rankings as rankings.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HansenRatings on October 25, 2016, 08:29:40 PM
I think the confusion here is the HERO Sports doesn't say outright on their site that their rankings are a computer model. I thought it was human (maybe just their staff) at the beginning of the season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 26, 2016, 06:10:48 AM
Let's revisit the rankings.

1) Thomas More still looks well-positioned to finish undefeated in league play.

2) Case Western squeezed past Geneva to remain undefeated.  Not a very impressive result but each of the top teams has had at least one survived-a-close-call kind of game.  I'll give them a slight pass; we'll find out in the next few weeks anyway.

3) Westminster notched a real signature win by toppling W&J.  Does this represent a shift in the league balance of power?  For the last...while, W&J has always been firmly entrenched as one of the league's top two teams, barely losing a league game to anyone but Thomas More save for a flash in the pan like 2005 Thiel, or a stray upset against Waynesburg.  This feels more sustainable; there are genuinely multiple contenders in this top echelon of the league, which bodes well for the PAC moving forward.

4) W&J drops a spot after losing to Westminster.  There's fairly little separating teams 2-3-4-5 at this moment; we'll see what happens in the next three weeks as CWRU, Westminster, and CMU all trade blows.  Similar to last year, really, except for the scheduling quirk that will preclude One True Champion from being named.

5) Carnegie Mellon is now 4-3 with three very close losses to three very good teams (overtime vs. 5-1 SAA leader WashU; 20-16 against Thomas More; overtime against W&J) and heading into a pair of very interesting games with Westminster and Case Western to jockey for position in the second/third place league race.  Similar comment to Westminster: really nice season last year, need to capture at least one of the CWRU or Westminster games to establish that they firmly belong in the "top echelon" of the league.

Again...that's pretty clearly the top echelon of the league.  Beneath that there's a pretty big step down...

6) St. Vincent remains the best of the rest, but with decisive losses against Case, Westminster, and TMC they aren't in the same league as the top 5.

7) Waynesburg has rebounded a little from last year's disappointment, but still remains well below the program standard.  Didn't even stay close in the games against the league's top dogs, and eked out close wins against GCC and Geneva.  Gotta beat Thiel and St. Vincent if they want to show genuine progress this season.

8) Geneva played CWRU very tough...but I'm not ready to slide them ahead of Waynesburg just yet since Waynesburg holds a h2h win.

9) Thiel seems to have made some progress from last year.  They're scoring some points, and they've been much more competitive this year than most of last season.  I'm repeating that from last week, having just seen them live against CMU - this year they lost to the Tartans 49-33 instead of 73-19.  Progress. Should have a chance for at least 2 more wins.  If they beat Waynesburg, I might pop them up to the 7 spot.

10) Bethany is a high-ceiling, low-floor team.  I'll never be able to figure out how these guys can take W&J to the wire in the same season that they lost to both Geneva and Thiel.  Lots of athletes, lots of offense, terrible discipline, no defense.

11) Grove City is still in the basement for now.  They will have their best chance(s) for a win in the last three games.  I am really hopeful that DiDonato can turn the program around someday, but it's going to take some work.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 26, 2016, 07:32:50 PM
Can't argue with those rankings.  Senior Day at TMC this week.  They should play inspired as a result. 

TMC only has two guaranteed games left in '16, they have their BYE in week 11 after unofficially having one that week when little brother was on the schedule.


EDIT:  I really like how the Saints have used the blowouts this year to get young guys playtime so they are ready when called upon.  The result is added experience for a very young and talented 2nd group on each side of the football. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 26, 2016, 09:18:08 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 25, 2016, 08:15:30 PM
When you poll, do you poll one person? That's why we refer to multiple-person polls as polls and single-person and computer rankings as rankings.

Oh, I'm sorry.  Perhaps we had a misunderstanding.  I was comparing the d3football.com rankings and those in Division I (AP and ESPN Coaches), both of which, like the d3football.com rankings, include the input of a group of people.  In my mind, those are all "polls."

We agree that multi-person rankings are generally referred to as "polls."  That's why I would call both the d3football.com rankings and the ESPN Division I-FBS Coaches' Rankings "polls."

We are apparently in agreement then.  Sorry for the misunderstanding!  My apologies!!!

If the herosports rankings are computer generated, then I wouldn't call that set of rankings a "poll," but I would use the term to refer to both the d3football.com rankings and ESPN Coaches' I-FBS rankings as "polls" simply because both involve a collection of people, each with input.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 26, 2016, 11:12:45 PM
Disregarding polls, rankings, and ...  ;)

Huge game in St. Louis this week for Case Western Reserve (7-0) at Wash U.(6-1).

Wash U is playing with the 5th best passing offense in the country, and has impressive wins under their belt of Berry and Carnegie Mellon...tied for the lead in the SAA. 

PREVIEW: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20161025mjuapc
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 26, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Just a hypothetical question after looking at Wally's Pool C projections. If Case and Thomas More both were to make the playoff, would it be bittersweet if both teams met in the 1st round in the playoffs?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2016, 07:51:53 AM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 26, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Just a hypothetical question after looking at Wally's Pool C projections. If Case and Thomas More both were to make the playoff, would it be bittersweet if both teams met in the 1st round in the playoffs?

I hope the committee would set it up that way.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2016, 09:40:35 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2016, 07:51:53 AM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 26, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Just a hypothetical question after looking at Wally's Pool C projections. If Case and Thomas More both were to make the playoff, would it be bittersweet if both teams met in the 1st round in the playoffs?

I hope the committee would set it up that way.
+1!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 27, 2016, 09:54:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2016, 07:51:53 AM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on October 26, 2016, 11:52:02 PM
Just a hypothetical question after looking at Wally's Pool C projections. If Case and Thomas More both were to make the playoff, would it be bittersweet if both teams met in the 1st round in the playoffs?

I hope the committee would set it up that way.

Then that would be the de facto championship game. I wonder if it would count towards the conference W/L record. I am really oppose to conference foes facing off in the first round, but it would only be right in this case (no pun intended).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 27, 2016, 09:58:16 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 26, 2016, 11:12:45 PM
Disregarding polls, rankings, and ...  ;)

Huge game in St. Louis this week for Case Western Reserve (7-0) at Wash U.(6-1).

Wash U is playing with the 5th best passing offense in the country, and has impressive wins under their belt of Berry and Carnegie Mellon...tied for the lead in the SAA. 

PREVIEW: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20161025mjuapc

Agree, playoffs and polls and rankings aside, this should be an excellent football game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 27, 2016, 10:15:40 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 27, 2016, 09:58:16 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 26, 2016, 11:12:45 PM
Disregarding polls, rankings, and ...  ;)

Huge game in St. Louis this week for Case Western Reserve (7-0) at Wash U.(6-1).

Wash U is playing with the 5th best passing offense in the country, and has impressive wins under their belt of Berry and Carnegie Mellon...tied for the lead in the SAA. 

PREVIEW: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20161025mjuapc

Agree, playoffs and polls and rankings aside, this should be an excellent football game.
I have this on my slate of games to watch. I think Wash U has been floating under the radar from an outsider view, I watch a good amount of their game against Berry earlier in the year. This will be a good opportunity for Case to make a statement against a good Wash U team. Good luck to both teams this weekend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 28, 2016, 04:48:04 PM
This is going to be a VERY tough game for CWRU; probably their first real "test."

We'll find out if the Spartans are "for real" this week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
I'm rooting for CWRU....
If we get to the DOOMSDAY scenario in the PAC, perhaps, it'll get fixed....

Go, TMC.  Go, CWRU.  Go, W&J (just for the tie-breaker implications).

Simple solution is available.  Just won't be implemented.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 29, 2016, 04:20:48 PM
Case definitely passed the test today.

56 points, over 700 yards of total offense, and over 430 yards rushing against a 6-1 opponent to move to 8-0 on the season.

This should definitely help Case's national ranking.

Let's hope that they win out!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 29, 2016, 04:40:01 PM
Well that was an entertaining game to watch of Case Western Reserve @ Wash U....definitely lived up to the hype.

707 yards of total offense for the Spartans and 526 yards of total offense for the Bears.  DRUMROLL...1,233 combined total yards!

Case Western Reserve 56
Wash U 38

BOX SCORE: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/boxscores/20161029_c8ei.xml



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 29, 2016, 04:52:05 PM
W&J vs St Vincent was a one point game at the half. Adjustments were made and W&J scored 21 unanswered points for a 22 point win.

This takes W&J to 6-2 ensuring their 33rd consecutive winning season. Quite an accomlishment for the Presidents.

Jeff in Seattle (grandkids time) 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 29, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
Two takes:

Defense Falters as WashU Football Falls to No. 25 Case 56-38

http://bearsports.wustl.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20161029pe7ise


#25 CWRU Runs Over WashU 56-38 to Clinch Share of 2016 UAA Title

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20161029pirqak
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 29, 2016, 05:19:02 PM
Spartan's OL ought to be in line for team of the week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2016, 06:37:08 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 29, 2016, 04:52:05 PM
W&J vs St Vincent was a one point game at the half. Adjustments were made and W&J scored 21 unanswered points for a 22 point win.

This takes W&J to 6-2 ensuring their 33rd consecutive winning season. Quite an accomlishment for the Presidents.

Jeff in Seattle (grandkids time)

And assures TMC of the tiebreaker, should Thomas More win next week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 30, 2016, 12:11:21 PM
Well.  What a lovely weekend.  Sadly, I did not see any Division III football as my wife and I were on a road trip to-and-from Asheville, NC (a lovely drive through West Virginia, Virginia, Tennesee, and finally North Carolina) but my wife dutifully kept me informed of the scores as we were driving home yesterday.

1. Thomas More (7-0, 8-1) takes care of business against Bethany

2. Case Western (6-0, 8-0) notches an excellent non-league win over 6-2 Washington University in St. Louis, co-leader of the SAA at the moment.  This is a big win for the playoff portfolio; if TMC ends up with the Pool A, as we currently believe, then Case will have a nice win, possibly against a regionally-ranked opponent, in their pockets.  I think it's critical that CWRU finish undefeated if they want a Pool C bid, though.  The league does not always get a lot of respect in the regional-rankings and my suspicion is that a loss to either Westminster or CMU would result in the RR's just tossing out everyone in the PAC save for Thomas More.

3A. Carnegie Mellon (5-2, 5-3)
3B. Westminster (4-2, 6-2)
3C. Washington & Jefferson (4-2, 6-2)

Not entirely unlike last year, we have a cluster of good-but-not-great teams that all beat one another jockeying for position.  In the h2h contests:

CMU 35, Westminster 23 (at CMU)
Westminster 16, W&J 10 (at Westminster)
W&J 55, CMU 52, overtime (at W&J)

So everyone won their game at home and lost on the road.  The difference for me, if there is one at all, is that Carnegie Mellon comfortably beat Westminster at home (taking a 35-16 lead in the fourth quarter and ultimately winning by two scores) and also took W&J to overtime on the road; that's the best two-game profile any of the three can offer against each other.  The net point differential here is +9 for CMU, -3 for W & J, and -6 for Westminster if that means anything.  I think all of them are about equal so they're basically all co-third-place at this point for me.  Both Westminster and CMU will be able to stake their claim as the league's 2nd-best team against Case, regardless of what the final standings will show with the unbalanced schedule.

6. St. Vincent (2-4, 4-4) resides comfortably in the middle.  Better than the bottom of the league (wins over Thiel, Geneva, Grove City) but lopsided losses against everyone listed above.  Thought they might take a step forward this season but clearly not quite there yet.

7. Thiel (2-4, 3-5) slides up a few spots this week after beating Waynesburg.  I know they have a h2h loss against Geneva, but the body of work from the season tells me that Thiel is a little better team overall - their offense is actually quite good.

8. Geneva (2-4, 3-5) also grabbed their third win of the season.  Despite their loss against Waynesburg, I'm sliding them up thanks to the trio of wins against Bethany, Thiel, and Grove City.  You can really argue for Geneva at 7 and Thiel at 8 and I wouldn't argue, since Geneva did actually win h2h; I just think Thiel's better offense makes them a little scarier opponent overall, and the Thiel-Waynesburg-Geneva trio of results makes this a confusing nonlinearity, much like CMU-Westminster-W&J above.

9. Waynesburg (2-4, 2-6) now is officially not just a one-year downturn last year.  Their two wins are 14-10 against winless Grove City and 10-9 against Geneva.  Yuck.

10. Bethany (0-6, 1-7) went 0-for-5 against the league's heavy hitters.  One close effort with W&J.  Overall a disappointing season for the Bison, who had really reached "consistently competitive" status over the last five or six seasons, usually good for something between 3-7 and 6-4.

11. Grove City (0-6, 0-8) continues to scuffle along.  Can they beat either Bethany or Thiel and end a three-season streak of futility?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2016, 06:10:13 PM
It's been floated about on other board and I agree with the idea that it would be great to see Thomas More and Case play in Round 1 of the tournament this year.  Hopefully this will happen, if both teams win out. 


Thomas More has a roadie at Thiel this week and it sounds like the Saints defense will be challenged.  Back in 2000, Thiel was TMC's only loss and it prevented the Saints from making their 2nd appearance in the Tournament.  Ironically, this was David Armstrong's last Thiel team.  The same David Armstrong who is now President at Thomas More College. 

Anyways, again I expect Thiel to really test TMC; sounds like their offense has come a long way from the past 5 years. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2016, 07:05:08 PM
Thiel won't be within 35 points of TMC...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 30, 2016, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2016, 06:10:13 PM
Anyways, again I expect Thiel to really test TMC; sounds like their offense has come a long way from the past 5 years.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2016, 07:05:08 PM
Thiel won't be within 35 points of TMC...

I fall somewhere in between these 2 opinions.  I expect Thomas More to be comfortably ahead by the fourth quarter, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Thiel at least gets a few points on the board.  They're averaging 34.5 points per game, and that's not all fluff; even against the league's top teams (CWRU, CMU, and W&J) they have moved the ball and scored some points while the games were still competitive.  QB Ryan Radke has thrown for 1805 yards and has a 16-5 TD/INT ratio.  WR Bracy has 639 yards and is averaging 22.8 yards per catch.  If TMC shows up to play, this could be 48-0 by halftime, but it could also be a 28-14 at half on the way to a 56-20 final margin.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 30, 2016, 08:07:52 PM
Also,

Case Western Reserve is not out of the woods yet by any means.  They'll be entering the last two games with a bullseye on their back.

Not to mention, Westminster will be looking to wash the bad taste of defeat out of their mouth.  It's never fun to play a team immediately after they come off a tough loss.

Finally, the last week is a rivalry game/week...the good ole Academic Bowl.  You never know what to expect.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2016, 12:43:53 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 30, 2016, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2016, 06:10:13 PM
Anyways, again I expect Thiel to really test TMC; sounds like their offense has come a long way from the past 5 years.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2016, 07:05:08 PM
Thiel won't be within 35 points of TMC...

I fall somewhere in between these 2 opinions.  I expect Thomas More to be comfortably ahead by the fourth quarter, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Thiel at least gets a few points on the board.  They're averaging 34.5 points per game, and that's not all fluff; even against the league's top teams (CWRU, CMU, and W&J) they have moved the ball and scored some points while the games were still competitive.  QB Ryan Radke has thrown for 1805 yards and has a 16-5 TD/INT ratio.  WR Bracy has 639 yards and is averaging 22.8 yards per catch.  If TMC shows up to play, this could be 48-0 by halftime, but it could also be a 28-14 at half on the way to a 56-20 final margin.

I really feel like the Seniors on defense will be ready - it COULD be their last game together and will be treated as such.  But with their aggressiveness, the QB scrambles and called runs could hurt.  Radke appears to be very athletic. 

They can rest and get kids healthy during the bye week. 

The Regional Rankings will be very interesting this week.  You have to think Case gets slotted pretty high, no? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 31, 2016, 01:09:48 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 31, 2016, 12:43:53 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 30, 2016, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2016, 06:10:13 PM
Anyways, again I expect Thiel to really test TMC; sounds like their offense has come a long way from the past 5 years.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 30, 2016, 07:05:08 PM
Thiel won't be within 35 points of TMC...

I fall somewhere in between these 2 opinions.  I expect Thomas More to be comfortably ahead by the fourth quarter, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Thiel at least gets a few points on the board.  They're averaging 34.5 points per game, and that's not all fluff; even against the league's top teams (CWRU, CMU, and W&J) they have moved the ball and scored some points while the games were still competitive.  QB Ryan Radke has thrown for 1805 yards and has a 16-5 TD/INT ratio.  WR Bracy has 639 yards and is averaging 22.8 yards per catch.  If TMC shows up to play, this could be 48-0 by halftime, but it could also be a 28-14 at half on the way to a 56-20 final margin.

I really feel like the Seniors on defense will be ready - it COULD be their last game together and will be treated as such.  But with their aggressiveness, the QB scrambles and called runs could hurt.  Radke appears to be very athletic. 

They can rest and get kids healthy during the bye week. 

The Regional Rankings will be very interesting this week.  You have to think Case gets slotted pretty high, no?

If I had to guess at the South rankings, I'd go:
1- UMHB
2- JHU
3- TMC
4- CWRU
5- HSU

and then some combo platter of Maryville, Huntingdon, Centre, Berry, ETBU, Randolph-Macon, and Muhlenberg. 

Why CWRU under TMC?  This regional committee has shown an affinity for SOS and I'm not sure that CWRU's win at WashU, while impressive, is enough to overcome their bad SOS figure right now.  IF they win the last two, they'd almost certainly jump TMC in the rankings even if they don't wind up as the league's AQ. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 01, 2016, 01:32:28 PM
PAC is the first conference discussed in this week's D3 football podcast: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2016/10/31/atn-podcast-breaking-down-the-conference-races/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 03, 2016, 06:10:56 PM
Westminster football coverage: http://www.wcn247.com/coaches-corner-spartans-come-town/

Discuss Carnegie Mellon and Case Western Reserve.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2016, 06:20:10 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 03, 2016, 06:10:56 PM
Westminster football coverage: http://www.wcn247.com/coaches-corner-spartans-come-town/

Discuss Carnegie Mellon and Case Western Reserve.

Interesting tidbit about Columbo
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 03:34:23 PM
56-16 Thomas More with 10 minutes left in the 4th at Thiel, as the backups have taken the field. 

Radke and the Thiel offense was as advertised for the First Half.  They had the ball inside the 5 yardline of Thomas More and came away with a total of 3 points in a 35-16 first half.  Two TD's were long throws picking on the left corner for Thiel as TMC had some trouble with Thiel selling out to stop the run. 

Saints made some adjustments at halftime and totally shutdown the Radke show in the 2nd half. 

TMC gets an off week and then find out who/where during the selection show. 

Meanwhile Case is up 26-22 on Westminster late in the fourth, but Westminster is inside the Case 20 and driving.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 03:36:55 PM
wow - bad time to fumble.  Keep rubbing those Rabbit's Feet!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 03:41:43 PM
This is for the Thiel radio homers guys, Hugh Ringer and Don Achenbach:

Thomas More wasn't running up the score today.  The 2nd string guys practice just as hard and TMC is NOT going to take a knee with 5 minutes left in the game.  These aren't style points, these are Freshman and Sophomores who've gotten a chance to play.  The onus is on the defense to stop runs up the middle. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 03:36:55 PM
wow - bad time to fumble.  Keep rubbing those Rabbit's Feet!

Keep playing hard, Spartans.  Let's get two in the Tournament this year again.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
For nearly three quarters the story of the game wasn't if CWRU could stop Westminster, but the Titans' pass defense.  They had good coverage and when receivers were open Cuda often overthrew and they got a pick 6.  He finished 16-33.  But Spartans eked out a 26-22 win recovering a fumble with under a minute left with Westminster inside the 5.

Meanwhile WashU beat Hendrix to improve CWRU's SoS
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2016, 04:01:59 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 03:36:55 PM
wow - bad time to fumble.  Keep rubbing those Rabbit's Feet!

Keep playing hard, Spartans.  Let's get two in the Tournament this year again.

And maybe get a PAC championship game in week 12.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
I'm all for that; Case owes a visit to Crestview Hills anyway. 

I've watched both teams this year, I feel like the South RAC should have Thomas More slotted above Case. 

I feel like if they FINISH 10-0, then they should be moved ahead of TMC based upon how hard it is to win them all.  But so far, the TMC opponents have been better and the Saints are a fumble at Franklin away from being 10-0, as well. 

I also feel like the PAC should throw out the schedule next year and make sure the Top 5 teams in the conference all play one another. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2016, 05:21:57 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2016, 04:00:43 PM

Meanwhile WashU beat Hendrix to improve CWRU's SoS

WOW, WashU may in fact win the SAA...Centre-Berry game next week, and WashU owns the head-to-head over Berry if they can beat Centre.

http://www.d3football.com/teams/Washington_U./2016/index
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
Couple of really fun games today:

- Case rallies from down 22-3 to win 26-22. 

- Carnegie Mellon rallies from down 24-7 with seconds remaining in the third quarter to win 37-24 thanks to a flurry of big plays (the first touchdown of the rally was a 60-yard run on the final play of the third quarter; the Tartans would then get an 85-yard pick-six to make it 24-21, a 61-yard run that led to a 10-yard TD to make it 28-24, and eventually a big punt return from dynamic frosh William Richter that set up yet another touchdown run).

Academic Bowl should be fun next week :)

Elsewhere in the PAC

- As expected, Thiel traded some scores with TMC early before being overwhelmed.

- W&J beats Geneva 17-7 to raise their record to 7-2.  Geneva is only 3-6, but their defense has quietly had a pretty good season and maybe they'll take a step forward next year as they get the hang of the triple-option offense.

- Bethany gets a five-touchdown day from QB Kinemond to beat Grove Cirty 33-14, their second win of the season.

- St. Vincent beats Waynesburg 30-12 for their fifth win of the season.  SVC has a chance to finish with the second winning season in program history if they can beat Bethany next week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 05, 2016, 05:39:24 PM
Whew!  That was SCARY!!!  I was really worried when I saw the halftime score!
 
Nice win for CWRU.

Next week's Academic Bowl could be one of the best ever!

A PAC co-championship and possible playoff berth on the line.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2016, 05:42:44 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 05, 2016, 05:39:24 PM
Whew!  That was SCARY!!!  I was really worried when I saw the halftime score!
 
Nice win for CWRU.

Next week's Academic Bowl could be one of the best ever!

A PAC co-championship and possible playoff bid on the line.

And a UAA co-championship / championship on the line...the very last one :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 06:10:13 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
- W&J beats Geneva 17-7 to raise their record to 7-2.  Geneva is only 3-6, but their defense has quietly had a pretty good season and maybe they'll take a step forward next year as they get the hang of the triple-option offense.

Sounds like the Golden T's are conquering the triple-option.  I feel like God also loves the spread passing attacks with mobile and accurate QB's, though.  The "Conquerers" need to update their website; it still shows 20 out of the last 22 years being at .500 or better in conference play (which as a goal, is downright Baldwin Wallace-y).  2016 will mark the the fourth season out of 6 in PAC play where that has been short. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 06:15:13 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
- Case rallies from down 22-3 to win 26-22. 

Could you see the fumble?  I really feel bad for that kid.  I must've missed the replay.  as I told Pat that there was a swarm of Case-ies around him and then they went to the ground all fighting for the ball. 

Someone needs to buy a steak for the kid who stripped that.  There was no way Case was going to hold them out of endzone on that drive.  Westminster can absolutely pound the rock, when they want to (and need to).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2016, 06:29:02 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 06:15:13 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
- Case rallies from down 22-3 to win 26-22. 

Could you see the fumble?  I really feel bad for that kid.  I must've missed the replay.  as I told Pat that there was a swarm of Case-ies around him and then they went to the ground all fighting for the ball. 

Someone needs to buy a steak for the kid who stripped that.  There was no way Case was going to hold them out of endzone on that drive.  Westminster can absolutely pound the rock, when they want to (and need to).

It wasn't a strip, the RB never got the hand off.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2016, 06:36:41 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 06:15:13 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
- Case rallies from down 22-3 to win 26-22. 

Could you see the fumble?  I really feel bad for that kid.  I must've missed the replay.  as I told Pat that there was a swarm of Case-ies around him and then they went to the ground all fighting for the ball. 

Someone needs to buy a steak for the kid who stripped that.  There was no way Case was going to hold them out of endzone on that drive.  Westminster can absolutely pound the rock, when they want to (and need to).

Reminded me of Cleveland's own "The Fumble" with Ernest Byner...although this one was a bad handoff.

Case Western had a nightmare start to the game.  Their first offense series saw the center snap the first punt attempt out of the back of the end zone for a safety.   Then on the second possession,  Cuda's first pass of the series gets tipped and taken back for a 12 yard pick-6.  Westminster started the game 9-0 before either team even got going!  Then as ADL70 attested, Westminster played lights out pass defense shutting out Cuda for the rest of the first half, and keeping his scrambling completely in check.  Cuda was finally able to get it going in the third quarter, and after one lucky defensive stop/fumble and heads up reaction, the season keeps rolling along. 

Academic Bowl is going to be epic I feel. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2016, 07:17:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
I'm all for that; Case owes a visit to Crestview Hills anyway. 

I've watched both teams this year, I feel like the South RAC should have Thomas More slotted above Case. 

I feel like if they FINISH 10-0, then they should be moved ahead of TMC based upon how hard it is to win them all.  But so far, the TMC opponents have been better and the Saints are a fumble at Franklin away from being 10-0, as well. 

I also feel like the PAC should throw out the schedule next year and make sure the Top 5 teams in the conference all play one another.

10-0 and potentially have a win vs RRO (WashU) ought to be ahead of TMC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 05, 2016, 07:17:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
I'm all for that; Case owes a visit to Crestview Hills anyway. 

I've watched both teams this year, I feel like the South RAC should have Thomas More slotted above Case. 

I feel like if they FINISH 10-0, then they should be moved ahead of TMC based upon how hard it is to win them all.  But so far, the TMC opponents have been better and the Saints are a fumble at Franklin away from being 10-0, as well. 

I also feel like the PAC should throw out the schedule next year and make sure the Top 5 teams in the conference all play one another.

10-0 and potentially have a win vs RRO (WashU) ought to be ahead of TMC.

Yep.  If they go 10-0, then they should be in front of Tommy More.  But not right now; unless WashU gets onto the Regional Rankings.  Leipheimer from Thiel was probably at the game today.  If TMC jumps Case, it will be this week. 

It's quibbling over a spot; I'm hoping TMC gets a home game as the Pool A from the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 05, 2016, 08:33:17 PM
9-0 should be ahead of 9-1. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on November 05, 2016, 08:33:17 PM
9-0 should be ahead of 9-1.

Hi SpartanMom, hope you're well.  I've been in your neck of the woods a lot lately (and am headed to PB, tomorrow.  We are in one of three regions where an undefeated is behind a team with one loss.  To me, it's on case by case basis.  LAST WEEK, with Case's SOS number so low, I contend Thomas More should've been fourth.  Both are behind a 1 loss Hardin-Simmons, though.  I just think their schedule is stronger. 

For reference:  http://d3football.com/playoffs/2016/first-regional-ranking

If Case finishes unblemished, then I have no problem with it.  I don't think it's an accurate snapshot of the two teams, and that's my opinion. 

I really feel like TM is built for and is poised to make a run in the tournament. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2016, 08:52:58 PM
^I also believe that 1-loss teams can be ranked ahead of undefeated teams; it's a case-by-case thing.

This one is really close.  I agree that Thomas More has played a tougher schedule overall but that is balanced out by the fact that TMC has a loss (and with Franklin now carrying a loss of their own to a merely-okay opponent, that "result" has lost a little shine).  SOS figures aside, the quality of their best wins, at this point, is actually pretty close.  Thomas More has beaten W&J, Carnegie Mellon, and Westminster; Case has beaten Westminster and WashU (who beat CMU in overtime in the opener).  A couple of weeks ago, Case was 6-0 but hadn't played anyone of note yet; now they do have a few quality wins on the plate, which is enough to make this a toss-up IMO.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2016, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2016, 08:52:58 PM
^I also believe that 1-loss teams can be ranked ahead of undefeated teams; it's a case-by-case thing.

This one is really close.  I agree that Thomas More has played a tougher schedule overall but that is balanced out by the fact that TMC has a loss (and with Franklin now carrying a loss of their own to a merely-okay opponent, that "result" has lost a little shine).  SOS figures aside, the quality of their best wins, at this point, is actually pretty close.  Thomas More has beaten W&J, Carnegie Mellon, and Westminster; Case has beaten Westminster and WashU (who beat CMU in overtime in the opener).  A couple of weeks ago, Case was 6-0 but hadn't played anyone of note yet; now they do have a few quality wins on the plate, which is enough to make this a toss-up IMO.
I believe that the Committee may consider the conference rules for tie-breaking in this decision. The conference schedules give a de facto common opponents platform, one of the criteria.  A conference Pool A should go ahead of a Conference Pool C in most cases.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 10:19:17 PM
Again - I was pointing out how the rankings would've been in SF's world LAST WEEK.  The Pool A vs. Pool C (now that its settled) wouldn't be valid until this week.  Neither would Case's game against Westminster.  But last week, I was looking at SOS.  The difference in SOS before this weekend's games was not small.  CWRU's SOS was .455 and TMC's SOS was .534.

Its not very often I've been able to say TMC had superior SOS numbers to someone, as usually its been pretty low like where CWRU's was at .455.  Usually, the Saints are looking at a SOS of .47 or so, but the conference has gotten better and they've went out and scheduled teams like St John Fisher, Wesley and Franklin in the OOC since MSJ took their football (but not the Bridge Bowl Trophy) and went home.

It will be closer this week, like ExTP is saying.  TMC will go backwards on SOS with the win against 3-6 Thiel, CWRU will move theirs up a bit with the Westminster win today.  But, Ralph brings up an interesting point I didn't consider before.  I still think 10-0 will end up in front of 9-1 here. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
It really only matters should CWRU and TMC get paired up with one another for a game and who would be the likely host.  In addition to the SOS jump CWRU made today, WashU has to be lurking around just outside of the RRs and may slide in with ETBU losing today.  So the Spartans might get an RRO win there as well. 

SaintsFAN- I'm doing some housekeeping on my tables but I can't find any official word that TMC has the PAC autobid.  Is this confirmed anywhere?  I'm not questioning that they're getting it, just that I haven't found a release making it official. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 11:22:59 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
It really only matters should CWRU and TMC get paired up with one another for a game and who would be the likely host.  In addition to the SOS jump CWRU made today, WashU has to be lurking around just outside of the RRs and may slide in with ETBU losing today.  So the Spartans might get an RRO win there as well. 

SaintsFAN- I'm doing some housekeeping on my tables but I can't find any official word that TMC has the PAC autobid.  Is this confirmed anywhere?  I'm not questioning that they're getting it, just that I haven't found a release making it official.

No.  I haven't seen anything official just yet.  The only time I've seen it mentioned at all is on the Case website in a game story or pregame note.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 06, 2016, 08:16:57 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2016, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on November 05, 2016, 08:33:17 PM
9-0 should be ahead of 9-1.

Hi SpartanMom, hope you're well.  I've been in your neck of the woods a lot lately (and am headed to PB, tomorrow.  We are in one of three regions where an undefeated is behind a team with one loss.  To me, it's on case by case basis.  LAST WEEK, with Case's SOS number so low, I contend Thomas More should've been fourth.  Both are behind a 1 loss Hardin-Simmons, though.  I just think their schedule is stronger. 

For reference:  http://d3football.com/playoffs/2016/first-regional-ranking

If Case finishes unblemished, then I have no problem with it.  I don't think it's an accurate snapshot of the two teams, and that's my opinion. 

I really feel like TM is built for and is poised to make a run in the tournament.

Hi there.  We are all doing fine here in the land of sunshine.  I hope you enjoy your visit.

I also believe there are individual cases where a 1 loss team can be ranked ahead of an undefeated team.  However, the two teams in this case play in the same conference.  What that means is that the bulk of their schedules are similar. 

While Franklin is a good team it isn't the kind of team where the committee is going to overlook the loss over an undefeated team.  I agree that CWRUs SOS is low but so is Mount Union, and John Carroll and nobody ever questions the inclusion of those teams in the RR (nor should they be questioned).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 06, 2016, 09:11:06 AM
The bulk of their schedules is similar but heck, they don't even play the same conference schedule. The committee takes into account all of the games, as it should. The conference takes into account whatever it takes into account.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2016, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 06, 2016, 09:11:06 AM
The bulk of their schedules is similar but heck, they don't even play the same conference schedule. The committee takes into account all of the games, as it should. The conference takes into account whatever it takes into account.

It's not like I'm crazy here guys; D3's poll, South Region Fan Poll, The Top 25 Fan Poll all have the Saints polling ahead of CWRU.  There are some polls on Hansen's website that have Sparty in front of the Saints, though (composite rankings). 

The teams are very close.  My opinion is that TM is a little better.  I've watched both extensively this year. 

You gotta be careful using Mount Union as an example.  Their dominant history props them up because, well, no team really executes like they do.  They are truly a machine.  The North is a weaker region this year, as a whole, after you get below the three teams of Mount, North Central and Wheaton. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 06, 2016, 02:36:56 PM
Case's own athletic website said that STM had the auto bid, but regardless, I think that Case likely still gets in if it beats CMU and finishes as an undefeated champion of two conferences with wins over teams like Washington U. and Westminster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2016, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 06, 2016, 02:36:56 PM
Case's own athletic website said that STM had the auto bid, but regardless, I think that Case likely still gets in if it beats CMU and finishes as an undefeated champion of two conferences with wins over teams like Washington U. and Westminster.

Agree 110% - I don't think there's any way they get left out at 10-0.  Centre was in their shoes in 2014, and they got in.  I believe they were Pool C because the Pool B's were gone before they got to the table (because of a low SOS number).  They were sent on the road to a strong 1 loss John Carroll team and got beat 63-28.  John Carroll went on to lose two weeks later to Mount Union again.  Both of their games were one-score games that year against Mount Union.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2016, 03:55:02 PM
From Joe Onderko, PAC Executive Director:  "Thomas More has clinched the AQ via tiebreaker #3 even if CWRU wins and regardless of any other outcomes on Nov. 12."  That's fairly definitive.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 06, 2016, 04:04:35 PM
Well then, in spirit of rivalry week, here's when Case Western Reserve vs Carnegie Mellon's Academic Bowl made it to ESPN College Gameday:

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5706/30735085711_639a1da4a4_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5756/30786512976_af32b21c7a_b.jpg)

This is was during the 2013 season and if I remember currently, Kirk Herbstreit gave the shout out.


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 06, 2016, 04:11:07 PM

Poll voters follow their own minds, the RAC has to follow the NCAA's criteria.

In the polls, I think TMC benefits from starting at #11 pre-season.  They fell to #22 after the Franklin loss, then leapfrogged Franklin to #20 after that team's Butler loss.  Since then the Saints have gained a spot or two each week climbing to #13, remaining there even after Franklin's second loss put a bit of tarnish on the quality of TMC's loss.

Whose best win is better -- TMC - W&J (or CMU) or CWRU - WashU (who beat CMU).

I think our consensus is 10-0 CWRU should be ranked by the committee higher than TMC.

More on CWRU-CMU later.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 07, 2016, 02:49:04 AM
Missed this last week, but nice write up on Case Western Reserve:

http://m.herosports.com/news/d3-mens-football-case-western-march-towards-dominance-debeljak
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 08, 2016, 06:12:11 PM
Academic Bowl preview:


#21 CWRU Football to Host CMU with PAC Title & Undefeated Season on the Line


http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20161108ohlcqf

EDIT:

This is pretty cool, honoring the heritage:

Case Western Reserve will also be honoring the Case Institute of Technology – Western Reserve University rivalry at Saturday's game, with members of each of the schools taking part as honorary captains during the coin toss on Saturday.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 09, 2016, 02:16:20 PM
New Regional Rankings are out:


South Region    SOS    Notes
1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 9-0
2 Johns Hopkins 9-0 9-0
3 Hardin-Simmons 6-1 8-1
4 Case Western Reserve 9-0 9-0
5 Thomas More 9-1 9-1
6 Muhlenberg 8-1 8-1
7 Berry 8-1 8-1
8 Randolph-Macon 8-1 8-1
9 Huntingdon 7-1 8-1
10 Centre 8-1 8-1
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2016, 04:46:32 PM
Well, we needn't have worried all that time figuring out what the tiebreaker was in the TMC-CWRU scenario.

Carnegie Mellon 26, Case Western 21, FINAL.

Terrific game.  Proud of this Tartan team for keeping it together after a tough start with several close losses to finish 7-3, with a possible ECAC bowl bid coming...

Also congrats to Sam Benger, who broke my teammate Travis Sivek's career rushing record of 4,183 yards in the last game of his junior season.  Benger will have an outside shot at 6,000 career rushing yards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of production.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2016, 04:56:25 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2016, 04:46:32 PM
Well, we needn't have worried all that time figuring out what the tiebreaker was in the TMC-CWRU scenario.

Carnegie Mellon 26, Case Western 21, FINAL.

Terrific game.  Proud of this Tartan team for keeping it together after a tough start with several close losses to finish 7-3, with a possible ECAC bowl bid coming...

Also congrats to Sam Benger, who broke my teammate Travis Sivek's career rushing record of 4,183 yards in the last game of his junior season.  Benger will have an outside shot at 6,000 career rushing yards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of production.

With Mount Union losing, the playoff bubble will be very interesting. 

Sucks for Case and the PAC that their loss wasn't earlier in the season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2016, 05:02:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2016, 04:56:25 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2016, 04:46:32 PM
Well, we needn't have worried all that time figuring out what the tiebreaker was in the TMC-CWRU scenario.

Carnegie Mellon 26, Case Western 21, FINAL.

Terrific game.  Proud of this Tartan team for keeping it together after a tough start with several close losses to finish 7-3, with a possible ECAC bowl bid coming...

Also congrats to Sam Benger, who broke my teammate Travis Sivek's career rushing record of 4,183 yards in the last game of his junior season.  Benger will have an outside shot at 6,000 career rushing yards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of production.

With Mount Union losing, the playoff bubble will be very interesting. 

Sucks for Case and the PAC that their loss wasn't earlier in the season.
Respectfully, I don't think that the timing of the loss will make a difference. You are looking at Muhlenberg with a loss to #2 JHU versus the record of CWRU against its schedule.  I think that Muhlenberg moves ahead in the Regional Ranking.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2016, 05:12:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2016, 05:02:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2016, 04:56:25 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2016, 04:46:32 PM
Well, we needn't have worried all that time figuring out what the tiebreaker was in the TMC-CWRU scenario.

Carnegie Mellon 26, Case Western 21, FINAL.

Terrific game.  Proud of this Tartan team for keeping it together after a tough start with several close losses to finish 7-3, with a possible ECAC bowl bid coming...

Also congrats to Sam Benger, who broke my teammate Travis Sivek's career rushing record of 4,183 yards in the last game of his junior season.  Benger will have an outside shot at 6,000 career rushing yards if he stays healthy and maintains his level of production.

With Mount Union losing, the playoff bubble will be very interesting. 

Sucks for Case and the PAC that their loss wasn't earlier in the season.
Respectfully, I don't think that the timing of the loss will make a difference. You are looking at Muhlenberg with a loss to #2 JHU versus the record of CWRU against its schedule.  I think that Muhlenberg moves ahead in the Regional Ranking.

Right and I agree; but the timing gives Case absolutely no chance to tidy up their resume.  It's literally the last result in their schedule.  Had it been sooner, they may have made up at least some ground.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 12, 2016, 05:19:48 PM
Congrats to CMU on a well earned victory.

Too bad for Case.  Rivalry games are always tough... Always makes things less predictive.

Case squandered 3 scoring opportunities in the first half.  A TD reception called back by ineligible down field, and two red zone trips (inside the 5 both times?) with zero points.  A field goal on either would have changed the course of the game.

Burke injured, Phan injured, and Cuda in and out of the game from injuries.  This is where lack of depth killed Case.

And case recovers not one, but two onside kicks at the end of the game?! Regardless of anything, crazy fun game to watch.

Both teams will have so much talent returning next season as well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2016, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 12, 2016, 05:19:48 PM
Congrats to CMU on a well earned victory.

Too bad for Case.  Rivalry games are always tough... Always makes things less predictive.

Case squandered 3 scoring opportunities in the first half.  A TD reception called back by ineligible down field, and two red zone trips (inside the 5 both times?) with zero points.  A field goal on either would have changed the course of the game.

Burke injured, Phan injured, and Cuda in and out of the game from injuries.  This is where lack of depth killed Case.

And case recovers not one, but two onside kicks at the end of the game?! Regardless of anything, crazy fun game to watch.

Both teams will have so much talent returning next season as well.

Seriously.  What a crazy finish.  If my hair was longer, I'd have been pulling it out when Cline ran out of bounds on 3rd down with 30 seconds to go (I think the clock would have expired, or at least come very close, if he'd have gone down in bounds).  The rollercoaster that followed - 4th down stop by Case, safety by CMU, onside kick by Case...penalty...another onside kick by Case...just an insane couple of minutes.  Couldn't relax until the final gun.

Also, kudos to Case on a high-quality stream.  I was able to watch the game easily on my laptop with pretty good sound and picture the entire time.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2016, 07:34:05 PM
I'll do a full season final rankings and post-mortem at some point, but one thing that I'd like to shine a light on is the effort by both teams in the Thiel vs. Grove City game.  Last game of the season for a pair of struggling programs, Grove City winless for a couple seasons...and man, check out the box and recap.

Thiel jumps out to a huge lead (34-7 in the second quarter).  Grove City gets a touchdown before half to make it 34-13, which might have looked just like a little consolation prize but instead signaled a rally to come.  Thiel extended the lead to 41-20 as the fourth quarter started and it may have been over, but Grove City rallied for three straight touchdowns to tie the game at 41 before Thiel answered with Ryan Radke's fourth TD pass (and sixth overall).

Kudos to a pair of teams with "nothing to play for" that apparently gave it their all in the season finale.

I'll be back with a season wrap-up (for our own little fun) of each team in the next couple days.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2016, 08:45:15 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2016, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 12, 2016, 05:19:48 PM
Congrats to CMU on a well earned victory.

Too bad for Case.  Rivalry games are always tough... Always makes things less predictive.

Case squandered 3 scoring opportunities in the first half.  A TD reception called back by ineligible down field, and two red zone trips (inside the 5 both times?) with zero points.  A field goal on either would have changed the course of the game.

Burke injured, Phan injured, and Cuda in and out of the game from injuries.  This is where lack of depth killed Case.

And case recovers not one, but two onside kicks at the end of the game?! Regardless of anything, crazy fun game to watch.

Both teams will have so much talent returning next season as well.

Seriously.  What a crazy finish.  If my hair was longer, I'd have been pulling it out when Cline ran out of bounds on 3rd down with 30 seconds to go (I think the clock would have expired, or at least come very close, if he'd have gone down in bounds).  The rollercoaster that followed - 4th down stop by Case, safety by CMU, onside kick by Case...penalty...another onside kick by Case...just an insane couple of minutes.  Couldn't relax until the final gun.

Also, kudos to Case on a high-quality stream.  I was able to watch the game easily on my laptop with pretty good sound and picture the entire time.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing when Cline went out of bounds.  Not a bad year for the kid, though.  He was really on-target today and more so, it seemed, on that last drive.  That drive was key; they started really deep in their own territory and Case kinda bottled up Benger on the first play or two.  And I felt terrible for Cuda with that injury.  They really need to dial him back next year, it's very unrealistic that a QB who runs that much won't get at least nicked up.  It's hard enough on your body taking hits in the pocket. 

If Case finds a RB like Benger, Tarrant or Pitts - look out.  They'll average 60/game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2016, 12:37:02 PM
CWRU would have gotten in the tournament had they beaten CMU.
They would have been an undefeated PAC co-champion and would have received a Pool C bid.
For the second time in the last 15 years or so, the PAC would have had two teams in the field.
But, they lost.

I hope, somehow, Case gets in, though I can't see how that happens.
Of course, it could have happened had the PAC actually had everyone play everyone else.
I don't see that the PAC would have gotten two invites in that scenario, but that's the breaks.

The solutions are many to the current situation in the PAC, and most of them are simple.

How we got here:
CWRU & CMU came back to the PAC in football, looking for a FB home.  The League accommodated them.
However, CWRU & CMU didn't REALLY come home.  They just rented a vacation house on the beach.
The League accommodated them.  And that's the League's fault.

If you want to "come home," come home.  Tell the UAA you're leaving and be done with it.
The League then sets up a 10-game, 11-week schedule where the PAC champion is determined on the field because everyone played everyone else.

OR, CWRU & CMU bring someone else with them to the PAC with divisions established and the League hosts a Week 11 crossover format (similar to DII PSAC).
And a League champion is determined on the field.

OR (and this one won't happen) the PAC loses a team, CWRU & CMU clear sufficient weeks to play 9 conference games, and the champion is determined on the field.

For some strange reason, I keep coming back to the same premise--the champion is determined on the field.....

Am I missing something?  Isn't that SUPPOSED to be where a champion is determined?

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2016, 02:47:29 PM
So, as you probably know, the UAA is no more after this year and Case and CMU won't be playing Wash U and U of Chicago going forward. You don't really want to play a 10-game conference (closed/inbred) schedule because it will flatten everyone's SOS to within a few points of .500, but I assume the PAC is going to a nine-game conference slate. That means this situation will happen only half as often.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2016, 03:47:29 PM
I'd be totally fine with a closed schedule, so long as everyone plays everyone.  SOS won't matter for the AQ.
If you go 9-1 and don't make the NCAA's, join a long list of heart-broken Larry's & Joe's that didn't do what they needed to do.

CWRU plays BOTH Chicago & Washington in 2017, at least according to their official website Future Schedules link.

CMU, not sure about the Tartans, but Rochester is definitely on the 2017 schedule (can't find a "future schedule" on CMU's site).
Rochester and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps are on the Tartans' 2018 schedule, with C-M-S and MIT on the 2019 docket.
CMU clearly has no intentions of only playing 9 PAC games.

So, based on the 'cut & paste' from CWRU's future schedule, they won't face TMC or W&J again next year.
I really can't feel too sorry for the Spartans if they don't make it to the dance.  They've received (and will again next year) more than sufficient accommodation.


CWRU 2017 schedule (from their site).
Sept. 2   @ Chicago &
Sept. 9   Bye
Sept. 16   GROVE CITY *
Sept. 23   WAYNESBURG *
Sept. 30   @ St. Vincent *
Oct. 7   BETHANY *
Oct. 14   @ Thiel *
Oct. 21   @ Geneva *
Oct. 28   WASHINGTON-ST. LOUIS &
Nov. 4   WESTMINSTER (Pa.) *
Nov. 11   @ Carnegie Mellon * &
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 13, 2016, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2016, 02:47:29 PM
So, as you probably know, the UAA is no more after this year and Case and CMU won't be playing Wash U and U of Chicago going forward. You don't really want to play a 10-game conference (closed/inbred) schedule because it will flatten everyone's SOS to within a few points of .500, but I assume the PAC is going to a nine-game conference slate. That means this situation will happen only half as often.

I agree with Pat with other benefits for not locking yourself in a full conference schedule for the reasons outline above.  Although before joining the PAC, Case Western Reserve had never even had the opportunity for an AQ.  Now, it seems having the flexibility in scheduling allows for more avenues for both AQ and Pool C. 

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2016, 03:47:29 PM
I'd be totally fine with a closed schedule, so long as everyone plays everyone.  SOS won't matter for the AQ.
If you go 9-1 and don't make the NCAA's, join a long list of heart-broken Larry's & Joe's that didn't do what they needed to do.

CWRU plays BOTH Chicago & Washington in 2017, at least according to their official website Future Schedules link.

CMU, not sure about the Tartans, but Rochester is definitely on the 2017 schedule (can't find a "future schedule" on CMU's site).
Rochester and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps are on the Tartans' 2018 schedule, with C-M-S and MIT on the 2019 docket.
CMU clearly has no intentions of only playing 9 PAC games.

So, based on the 'cut & paste' from CWRU's future schedule, they won't face TMC or W&J again next year.
I really can't feel too sorry for the Spartans if they don't make it to the dance.  They've received (and will again next year) more than sufficient accommodation.

CWRU 2017 schedule (from their site).
Sept. 2   @ Chicago &
Sept. 9   Bye
Sept. 16   GROVE CITY *
Sept. 23   WAYNESBURG *
Sept. 30   @ St. Vincent *
Oct. 7   BETHANY *
Oct. 14   @ Thiel *
Oct. 21   @ Geneva *
Oct. 28   WASHINGTON-ST. LOUIS &
Nov. 4   WESTMINSTER (Pa.) *
Nov. 11   @ Carnegie Mellon * &

Case Western Reserve's non-conference games can be an added bonus too, right?  WashU could have potentially won the PAC if roles were reversed. if you'd swap WashU for W & J on the schedule, for example, it would have weakened Case Western Reserve's resume even further had they ended the year 9-1 with the same loss to rival Carnegie Mellon.  Only having Thomas More on the schedule would have made a difference.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2016, 04:27:47 PM
You miss the point...
Based entirely on the League schedule and early results, when the TMC Saints ran the table and CWRU didn't play them, the Spartans STILL didn't have an opportunity for an AQ.  So, your "avenues for both AQ and Pool C" were dead ends. In fact, they were nearly "paper alleys"...

WashU being swapped for W&J doesn't mean a thing.  If WashU played in the PAC, they'd likely be about where CWRU, CMU and W&J are....behind TMC, on the outside of the NCAA tournament.  CWRU playing WashU did nothing for the playoff picture when all was said and done.

CWRU should have had TMC on the schedule.  They should have had W&J on the schedule.
The PAC should have NEVER allowed this mess to get to this point.

Let me repeat something I said a long time ago when this problem arose:  IF CWRU runs the table and goes 10-0, they're in the dance.  Period. Without debate.  Using the D3Football.com's projectionists' words:  there's no way any committee leaves a 10-0 CWRU team on the sideline when setting the bracket.

The clarity of the PAC AQ should never have been compromised by the accommodations afforded CWRU & CMU upon their return to the League.  The fact that it bit CWRU is the hind-quarters is more than appropriate.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 13, 2016, 06:31:51 PM
Very intriguing match up:  Witt at TMore. 

This will be an excellent game; The Saints better be ready to play.  Witt players under Joe Fincham  really play hard.

Look at what happened at TMC in 2001 at TMC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 10:13:05 AM
Saints Fan,

I know a lot can change in 2 years, but W&J played Witt in the first round in 2014 and won 41-25. The next week they went North to Alliance, stayed close for the first half, then got blown out 67-0. My guess is Vegas odds favor TMC.

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2016, 10:31:42 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 10:13:05 AM
Saints Fan,

I know a lot can change in 2 years, but W&J played Witt in the first round in 2014 and won 41-25. The next week they went North to Alliance, stayed close for the first half, then got blown out 67-0. My guess is Vegas odds favor TMC.

Jeff in Tennessee

Agreed.  Alot can change and I do believe TMC would be favored in this one (home games are worth 3 points in the tournament, also).  Hansen has the Saints favored as well.  I just hope they aren't looking forward to the following week.  Wittenberg can sting them, if thats the case.

I'll be putting a preview out later today/tomorrow on the game.  Some things I've noticed kind of jumped out at me. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 12:56:27 PM
Three PAC teams will be playing this weekend in the ECAC tournament in Philadelphia at Franklin Field:

W&J plays Brockport (7-3) Friday at 8:15 PM

Westminster plays Utica ((7-3) Saturday at 11:00 AM

CMU plays Salisbury (7-3) Sunday at 11:00 AM

Others playing are Kean (6-4)  Cortland (5-5) Frostburg (9-1) St John Fisher (9-1) SUNY Maritime (6-4) and RPI (5-5)

Sad that CWRU can't have a post season game, but having 4 PAC teams still playing ain't bad.

A little disappointed at the records of some of the participants. Are there better teams that aren't participating? I know teams have to apply, and perhaps some chose not to. I know W&J has declined to apply in the past.

Jeff in Tennessee

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2016, 01:04:17 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 12:56:27 PM
Three PAC teams will be playing this weekend in the ECAC tournament in Philadelphia at Franklin Field:

W&J plays Brockport (7-3) Friday at 8:15 PM

Westminster plays Utica ((7-3) Saturday at 11:00 AM

CMU plays Salisbury (7-3) Sunday at 11:00 AM

Others playing are Kean (6-4)  Cortland (5-5) Frostburg (9-1) St John Fisher (9-1) SUNY Maritime (6-4) and RPI (5-5)

Sad that CWRU can't have a post season game, but having 4 PAC teams still playing ain't bad.

A little disappointed at the records of some of the participants. Are there better teams that aren't participating? I know teams have to apply, and perhaps some chose not to. I know W&J has declined to apply in the past.

Jeff in Tennessee

Beat me to it.  Nice to see the bonus final game for seniors on W&J, Westminster, and CMU.  All three have fun opponents too.  I know that feelings tend to be mixed about this stuff, but I think it's really fun to see pairs of quality teams that traditionally don't play each other paired up.  I love the CMU-Salisbury matchup.

Re: the records and question about better teams, the Centennial Conference and the MAC have started their own "bowl series" with the 2 highest-ranked non-playoff teams from each conference, which removed 8-2 Delaware Valley, 7-3 Albright, 9-1 Muhlenberg, and 7-3 Franklin & Marshall from consideration.  That probably explains why a couple 5-5 teams qualified this year.  If the MAC and Centennial remain on the outside, the ECAC might want to contract from six bowl games to four if it's a priority to try and keep most teams at 7-3 or better to qualify for a bowl game...but I'm no expert.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 01:25:20 PM
Ex Tartan,

I took a cursory look to see who else might have been selected and the most glaring name that jumped out was St Lawrence who spent much of the season in the top 25, finished 9-1 with the loss to Hobart who is in the playoffs. Unfortunately Hobart plays host to Mount Union Saturday. I suspect The Mount will take having to travel as an affront and seek appropriate retribution.

Regarding the MAC/Centennial arrangement, we had some discussion about the PAC working out a similar arrangement which I passed on to the W&J AD and he replied that the conference was looking into it.



Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2016, 01:27:45 PM
W&J returns to historic Franklin Field for first time since 1897.

That September day, the Presidents lost to the University of Pennsylvania, 18-4.
Penn went on from there to finish 15-0 and win its third National Championship (and that would be today's D-I national championship....)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2016, 02:10:32 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 12:56:27 PM
Three PAC teams will be playing this weekend in the ECAC tournament in Philadelphia at Franklin Field:

W&J plays Brockport (7-3) Friday at 8:15 PM

Westminster plays Utica ((7-3) Saturday at 11:00 AM

CMU plays Salisbury (7-3) Sunday at 11:00 AM

Others playing are Kean (6-4)  Cortland (5-5) Frostburg (9-1) St John Fisher (9-1) SUNY Maritime (6-4) and RPI (5-5)

Sad that CWRU can't have a post season game, but having 4 PAC teams still playing ain't bad.

A little disappointed at the records of some of the participants. Are there better teams that aren't participating? I know teams have to apply, and perhaps some chose not to. I know W&J has declined to apply in the past.

Jeff in Tennessee

Wasn't SJF 8-2 this year?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 02:21:29 PM
Yes, 8-2 not 9-1
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2016, 02:58:19 PM
Wittenberg (#6 North Region, .492 SOS) at Thomas More (#4 South Region, .535 SOS)
Tale of the Tape

Total Offense
Witt #78 (417.2)
TMC #8 (517.9)

Rushing Offense
Witt #65 (193.1)
TMC #13 (272.1)

Passing Offense
Witt #123 (224.1)
TMC #85 (245.8)

Scoring Offense

Witt #50 (35.8)
TMC #12 (42.8)

Rushing Defense
Witt #9 (69.6)
TMC #31 (101.6)

Scoring Defense
Witt #2 (9.6)
TMC #43 (18.4)

3rd Down Conversion %
Witt #115 (.387)
TMC #2 (.547)

3rd down Conversion Defense
Witt #29 (.297)
TMC #73 (.346)

Red Zone Offense
Witt #12 (.896)
TMC #105 (.772)

Red Zone Defense
Witt #14 (.6)
TMC #171 (.808)

Net Punting

Witt #1 (40.78)
TMC #66 (34.32)


Like I alluded to earlier, a few thing things standout about the matchup in Crestview Hills.  Wittenberg has played good defense, getting off the field.  They have forced 22 turnovers this year and have a very good kicking game.  It looks like they have a couple standout LB's who play the run well.  That's been TMC's M.O. in 2016, running the ball with the three RB's and Kuntz.  It will be interesting to see if the Tigers defense can get off the field at the rate they did during the regular season.  TMC hasn't been a methodical offense in quite some time;  they get big plays to eat up chunks of yardage.  It will be interesting to see if the Witt defense is as good as advertised.  Same with the TMC offense. 

I caution those looking at TMC's defensive numbers, as they gave up big points playing a finesse Franklin team on the first weekend of the season.  Witt's passing game is not on par with Franklin's.  They like to pound the ball.  TMC prides itself, historically, on stopping the run and have taken the ball away 27 times this year. 

I'll be back to look at specific matchups in the trenches.  I suspect TMC will have a slight size advantage along both lines.  The question will be how the two teams match up at the skill positions. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2016, 05:02:04 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 01:25:20 PM
Ex Tartan,

I took a cursory look to see who else might have been selected and the most glaring name that jumped out was St Lawrence who spent much of the season in the top 25, finished 9-1 with the loss to Hobart who is in the playoffs. Unfortunately Hobart plays host to Mount Union Saturday. I suspect The Mount will take having to travel as an affront and seek appropriate retribution.

Regarding the MAC/Centennial arrangement, we had some discussion about the PAC working out a similar arrangement which I passed on to the W&J AD and he replied that the conference was looking into it.

Jeff in Tennessee

That's right, we did chat about that some last year.

I would love to see a PAC/OAC or PAC/NCAC bowl series, even if they were just for the league runners-up (or "highest ranked non playoff team" since occasionally the #2 from each league could make it into the playoffs).  But it certainly is much easier to just say this stuff than it is to make it happen, and I am appreciative of the ECAC staging the event as a fun consolation prize for good non-playoff teams.  Most of the feedback from last year (the first year where all games were held at a single site) was apparently positive.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 14, 2016, 05:19:41 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2016, 12:56:27 PM
Three PAC teams will be playing this weekend in the ECAC tournament in Philadelphia at Franklin Field:

W&J plays Brockport (7-3) Friday at 8:15 PM

Westminster plays Utica ((7-3) Saturday at 11:00 AM

CMU plays Salisbury (7-3) Sunday at 11:00 AM


Awesome.  This is incredible to consider the PAC may end up with 5 teams having at least 8 wins each. 

I have a good feeling on the four teams representing the PAC in the postseason.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 15, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2016, 03:47:29 PM

CWRU plays BOTH Chicago & Washington in 2017, at least according to their official website Future Schedules link.

CMU, not sure about the Tartans, but Rochester is definitely on the 2017 schedule (can't find a "future schedule" on CMU's site).
Rochester and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps are on the Tartans' 2018 schedule, with C-M-S and MIT on the 2019 docket.
CMU clearly has no intentions of only playing 9 PAC games.

So, based on the 'cut & paste' from CWRU's future schedule, they won't face TMC or W&J again next year.
I really can't feel too sorry for the Spartans if they don't make it to the dance.  They've received (and will again next year) more than sufficient accommodation.


I don't believe either of us know how the schedule was created, but you seem to come pretty close to implying that CWRU chose not to play either W&J or TMC.  If the schedule was created by blind draw, hopefully they will find a way in the future to ensure that the top teams all play one another.  CWRU and CMU are now free of their UAA connection.  I see per a WashU  site that they will play CMU in 2017, but not thereafter.  As you already noted CMU has announced that they will meet Rochester in 2017, so presumably Chicago and CMU will not face off.

I can't believe that CMU would have scheduled the two OOC games that they have without some indication from the PAC that a nine game conference schedule wasn't going to be. Or if the nine game slate comes to pass, I'm sure that they could drop one of those games.

A nine game schedule makes the most sense to me, since all PAC teams, except TMC, CWRU, and CMU, are playing nine conference foes currently, with one game not counting in the standings. Finding a second geographically desirable non-conference opponent is a problem because both NCAC and OAC play nine conference games.  As long as the top teams all play one another, the chance of two teams undefeated in conference play happening would be very slight.

It is possible though that CMU and CWRU asked for only eight conference games so that they could each maintain a more national schedule with two non-conference games, which has been demonstrated by CMU's announced future opponents.  If that is so, then it is all the more important that future PAC schedules ensure that the top teams all play one anothj\er.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
I don't think it's fair to say CWRU asked to not play TMC and W&J.  It is fair to say they didn't have to play against what is currently the flagship program in the PAC and another program who is very close to that level and THAT affects the way some people perceive things, right or wrong. 

I'm not upset about TMC winning the PAC outright, but I'm not happy for those seniors at Case, who won't play in a playoff game. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2016, 10:07:27 AM
I never said CWRU asked to not play TMC & W&J.
I did, and will continue to, say that the LEAGUE should have seen this scenario coming and faced it head on.

CWRU lost to CMU.  That practically means that the League still doesn't have to face it.
"It all worked fine, Bob.  What issue?"....I can hear it now.

SQUIRREL (subject change)....
I've heard alot over the last two weeks about the possible changes, some of which have been talked about here.
The busiest topic has been the TMC move to DII.
My question today is this:  What impact will the Saints vacating an entire women's basketball season, including national championship, due to major violations, have on this discussed move to DII?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 16, 2016, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2016, 10:07:27 AM
I never said CWRU ased to not play TMC & W&J.
I did, and will continue to, say that the LEAGUE should have seen this scenario coming and faced it head on.

CWRU lost to CMU.  That practically means that the League still doesn't have to face it.
"It all worked fine, Bob.  What issue?"....I can hear it now.

SQUIRREL (subject change)....
I've heard alot over the last two weeks about the possible changes, some of which have been talked about here.
The busiest topic has been the TMC move to DII.
My question today is this:  What impact will the Saints vacating an entire women's basketball season, including national championship, due to major violations, have on this discussed move to DII?

The actual vacating will have no impact on whatever happens; while the fact the school is on NCAA Probation for two years just might.  If they had made the decision to move up to Division 2 and can't during the probation period, it will impact the PAC as the school will still be eligible to compete for PAC Titles/NCAA Tourney Berths. 

To be fair, it wasn't the fact they weren't MAJOR violations; it was more the fact the AD has said he didn't know that a player living with an assistant coach (with whom her family had a relationship previous to her attending TMC) while rehabbing her ACL surgery was against the rules.  That can't happen at an institution emphasizing athletics.  I happen to believe what they said at the Press Conference is true, but also feel like its not an excuse; it should've been checked on to be sure. 

It doesn't just affect perception of the women's basketball team.  There are people who compete with Thomas More on the field who will say "well the women's basketball team.."  I'm sure that is already going on.  Probably with a certain coach or two.    And thats not fair to the kids who work hard and compete on the field. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2016, 07:47:36 AM
The scores/picks are in on the front page.  As ususal, Mr. Rossi has picked against TMC; which given his record when doing this in 2016 means that TMC will advance.

Witt has played great defense and will be well-coached.  They give up an average of single digit points through 10 games.  But, as WallyWabash said on the NCAC board, there aren't any players like CT Tarrant in the NCAC and there aren't any real high-powered offenses there either.  This is will be the best offense Witt faces while it will also be the best defense TMC has seen.  They are going to get tested.  The Saints put up plenty of points in a half at Wabash last year in Round 2 and some will point to that game and say this will be another disappointment for TMC.  I don't think this will be the case.  Witt does have one guy on the DL with good size to match up against TMC's OL (which averages 6'2'' 296 lbs) and they have two VERY good LB's.  Unless Witt can bring the house to stop the run game while keeping three DB's deep, I believe TMC will score enough to win the game.  Kuntz and Garland/Winkler are just too good at running those 7's, 8's and 9's. 

Defensively, TMC has had a very good defense for most of the year.  Witt will try to help their defense by possessing the ball and trying to run it down Thomas More's throat.  Then they like the play-action game.  This is a good matchup for Thomas More's defense; they had trouble with the finesse offense at Franklin but not teams who like to run the ball.  I like the experience of the 6 senior starters on this unit. 

Fans:  Don't let a low-scoring first half bother you.  Remember what happened after a 7-3 half against W&J. 

TMC 31
WIT 20

Wish I could be there
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HansenRatings on November 18, 2016, 10:47:26 AM
SaintsFAN did some pretty good analysis of the TMC/Witt game. I haven't watched either of them play at all this year, but here's what their opponent-adjusted averages are. (ANY/A is adjusted net yards/play, which accounts for turnovers and touchdowns)

Thomas More
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/21a7bc_98e8b9a00c2c4724bf511b90dcfcc548~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_666,h_118,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/21a7bc_98e8b9a00c2c4724bf511b90dcfcc548~mv2.webp)

Wittenberg
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/21a7bc_d8161aa765d84df6993bc4b36275d6e6~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_666,h_118,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/21a7bc_d8161aa765d84df6993bc4b36275d6e6~mv2.webp)

Wittenberg was solidly in the Top 25 for most defensive categories at the beginning of the season, which was pretty front-loaded with their best competition, but they haven't dominated the latter half of their schedule the way I expected. It doesn't seem to be either team's MO, but going through the air for both offenses appears to be the better matchup. TMC appears slightly better in pretty much every aspect, which bodes well for them. As long as turnovers don't play a huge role, it feels like TMC could have a comfortable victory.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2016, 12:17:31 PM
Quote from: HansenRatings on November 18, 2016, 10:47:26 AM
SaintsFAN did some pretty good analysis of the TMC/Witt game. I haven't watched either of them play at all this year, but here's what their opponent-adjusted averages are. (ANY/A is adjusted net yards/play, which accounts for turnovers and touchdowns)

Thomas More
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/21a7bc_98e8b9a00c2c4724bf511b90dcfcc548~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_666,h_118,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/21a7bc_98e8b9a00c2c4724bf511b90dcfcc548~mv2.webp)

Wittenberg
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/21a7bc_d8161aa765d84df6993bc4b36275d6e6~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_666,h_118,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/21a7bc_d8161aa765d84df6993bc4b36275d6e6~mv2.webp)

Wittenberg was solidly in the Top 25 for most defensive categories at the beginning of the season, which was pretty front-loaded with their best competition, but they haven't dominated the latter half of their schedule the way I expected. It doesn't seem to be either team's MO, but going through the air for both offenses appears to be the better matchup. TMC appears slightly better in pretty much every aspect, which bodes well for them. As long as turnovers don't play a huge role, it feels like TMC could have a comfortable victory.

Thanks, Logan.  You do great work.  Love the website. 

Here's an article from Springfield OH, which quotes Coach Joe Fincham:
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/sports/playoffs-a-meat-grinder-for-wittenberg-tigers/ns8x3/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 19, 2016, 01:09:10 PM
Great comeback by the Presidents last night against Brockport at Franklin Field. The win evens W&J's all time record at FF to 1-1. Only took 99 years!

Here is the write up from the W&J site:

http://gopresidents.com/news/2016/11/19/football-w-j-rallies-late-to-claim-ecac-presidents-bowl-over-brockport-38-31.aspx

Pete Coughlin went 52 of 73 and 473 yards. He finishers #2 ranked QB in career yards at W&J (just short of 10,000) behind Brian Dawson (99-02) and ahead of Bobby Swallow (05-08), Chris Edwards (02-05) and Jason Baer (93-96). He is also in the top 5 in career touchdowns with the same 4 others named above. All five have played in the last 20 seasons. He was also a three time second team PAC selection.

So W&J ends the season (and Coughlin ends his career) on a high note which gives the team momentum going into next year. Obviously, Coughlin will be tough to replace, but based on the last 20 years, I'm sure Sirianni has a plan.

Good luck to CMU, TMC and WC today. Be nice to have a PAC sweep!

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 19, 2016, 01:20:09 PM
Someone needs tell the Saints radio guys they are on air while the radio is at commercial. 

Secondly, the Witt shovel pass that was dropped was, in fact, an incomplete pass.

Witt is up 17-7 at half.  Big break getting the fumble and turning it into points with under 30 seconds left.  Witt has won on both sides of the LOS and worked intermediate routes while TMC tried longer passes.  Penalties have also cost TMC. 

Big possession coming out of halftime is upcoming.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 19, 2016, 02:20:07 PM
Westminster 33 Utica 6. Way to go!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 19, 2016, 03:22:54 PM
33-30 Final 4 OTs in Crestview Hills.  Wittenberg wins.  Story of the OT was defense and both teams had blocked FGs.  Wittenberg threw the ball more efficiently and 297 yards rushing for TMC wasn't enough.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2016, 02:53:07 PM
Welp, a split decision for the PAC in post-season play.

Thomas More drops a 4-OT thriller vs. Wittenberg in the Big Dance.

W&J wins a thrilling comeback over Brockport State in ECAC.

Westminster rolls over Utica in ECAC.

Carnegie Mellon gets handled thoroughly by the triple option Salisbury in the ECACs.

I'll write a post with my take on the season as a whole, but basically...the league had some good, some bad this season.  The league still clearly does not produce a bona-fide top-ten caliber team.  With all due respect to the league champion Saints, opening with a loss vs. Franklin and closing with a loss vs. Wittenberg indicates that the PAC champion still resides in that 15-25ish range of the Division; good, solid, strong teams that are no threat to bust into the NCAA semifinals any time soon.

On the more optimistic side, the league goes five-deep with quality teams now.  TMC wins the league and acquits themselves well against other peer league champion-type teams like Franklin and Wittenberg.  Case went 9-1 with a win over SAA champion and playoff participant WashU, only missing out on the playoffs after a hard-fought loss vs. CMU in the finale.  Westminster goes 9-2, beats W&J for the first time since 2000, and caps it off with a bowl win.  W&J caps the season with a thrilling comeback win over Brockport; even in a somewhat frustrating year for the Prez, they finish 9-2.  And finally, Carnegie Mellon goes 7-4, makes their second straight ECAC appearance, and competed well against quality teams (OT loss against WashU, 20-16 against TMC, OT against W&J, wins over Westminster and Case Western).   I think you can stack those five teams against the "top five" from most other leagues (not all, but most) and feel pretty good about our chances to take three-of-five.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 12, 2016, 08:35:34 PM
OK, so what are the prognostications for next year's PAC football?

Any guesses?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 12, 2016, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on December 12, 2016, 08:35:34 PM
OK, so what are the prognostications for next year's PAC football?

Any guesses?

Way too early for me to start thinking about that.  Will need to think more about who's returning how many starters and what I really saw from each team.  It's a dangerous game to play at this point, but I am excited about the Tartans' collection of offensive skill guys that will be back: QB Cline, RB's Benger and Hubbard, KR/PR Richter, WR's Prather and Mansfield.  We will graduate three starters from the offensive line, but if we have some quality replacements ready up front, the offense should be very productive.  Our defense was a problem all season this year; we have some work to do on that front.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 19, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
With Arth's departure would Debeljak think of returning to his alma mater?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 21, 2016, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on December 19, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
With Arth's departure would Debeljak think of returning to his alma mater?

They are conducting a "national search" at JCU, so who knows what that entails, truly. 

I'm sure there will be a ton of interest.  To me, they need a Coach with HC experience as they have a pretty good core of guys coming back. 

I think Debeljak will be a candidate, he has to throw his hat in the ring...right?  Will he be the best one?  Thats debatable. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 07, 2017, 01:50:30 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on December 21, 2016, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on December 19, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
With Arth's departure would Debeljak think of returning to his alma mater?

I think Debeljak will be a candidate, he has to throw his hat in the ring...right?  Will he be the best one?  Thats debatable.

I personally don't see the gain for Debeljak to go to JCU.  He has personally built up CWRU's program during his tenure, has a 2-0 record against JCU, and arguably has the most returning talent since the 2007-2009 seasons. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2017, 09:55:49 PM
Quote from: E.115 on January 07, 2017, 01:50:30 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on December 21, 2016, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on December 19, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
With Arth's departure would Debeljak think of returning to his alma mater?

I think Debeljak will be a candidate, he has to throw his hat in the ring...right?  Will he be the best one?  Thats debatable.

I personally don't see the gain for Debeljak to go to JCU.  He has personally built up CWRU's program during his tenure, has a 2-0 record against JCU, and arguably has the most returning talent since the 2007-2009 seasons.

John Carroll as a program has a much better path to win the national title than Case Western Reserve does. Definitely there's a gain in that area.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 09, 2017, 01:04:16 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2017, 09:55:49 PM
Quote from: E.115 on January 07, 2017, 01:50:30 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on December 21, 2016, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on December 19, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
With Arth's departure would Debeljak think of returning to his alma mater?

I think Debeljak will be a candidate, he has to throw his hat in the ring...right?  Will he be the best one?  Thats debatable.

I personally don't see the gain for Debeljak to go to JCU.  He has personally built up CWRU's program during his tenure, has a 2-0 record against JCU, and arguably has the most returning talent since the 2007-2009 seasons.

John Carroll as a program has a much better path to win the national title than Case Western Reserve does. Definitely there's a gain in that area.

My view may be skewed by the fact CWRU and JCU are literally 15 minutes apart (4.5 miles according to google maps)...and players from both intuitions regularly interact at the same bordering bars, hangouts, etc.  With this presumable local "Cleveland area bias" (not to mention, I went to CWRU and my brother went to JCU), I view JCU and CWRU as competitive to each other over the past decade.  Of course, JCU's record-breaking season this past year was truly remarkable and an incredibly fun ride to watch, and finally cemented them onto the well-deserved national stage. 

JCU will continue to make noise next year regardless of the coach, but CWRU has a real chance of a "best ever" type season next year.  So much of the team's top talent is returning, including many of those starters/captains who missed last season due injury bug that plagued the team throughout the season http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2016/new-look-strong-results-case-western-reserve  Next season for Debeljak, he may finally be able to "enjoy the fruits of his labor."  I could be wrong, but I see Debeljak preferring to see how far he can get with what he has personally built.

It's a shame they can't find a way to play each other every year, especially with Debeljak connection.  It was a fun 2-year span to watching the rivalry rekindled during 2010-2011 seasons. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 09, 2017, 09:45:07 AM
I just don't think "returning players" is as big a factor as one would think. 

If the HC sees an opportunity to better himself, and he's offered the job then he goes. 

Look at Erik Raeburn formerly of Wabash.  He had ALOT of talent coming back, but he didn't look back after being offered the Savannah State job. 

One thing about the CWRU situation; as good a class as those seniors are, they still have a significant road block to the playoffs in their own conference. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 09, 2017, 11:24:40 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 09, 2017, 09:45:07 AM
I just don't think "returning players" is as big a factor as one would think. 

If the HC sees an opportunity to better himself, and he's offered the job then he goes. 

Look at Erik Raeburn formerly of Wabash.  He had ALOT of talent coming back, but he didn't look back after being offered the Savannah State job. 

One thing about the CWRU situation; as good a class as those seniors are, they still have a significant road block to the playoffs in their own conference.

OK now you're just messing with me.  Savannah State is DI. 

I'm not saying I'd been surprised if Debeljak left CWRU to coach somewhere else (especially if he had a DI offer); I'm saying I see switching to JCU as more of a lateral move in the long term.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on January 09, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 09, 2017, 09:45:07 AM

Look at Erik Raeburn formerly of Wabash.  He had ALOT of talent coming back, but he didn't look back after being offered the Savannah State job. 


Just a quick note on this, Raeburn went 3-5 in conference with Savannah State this year. That school had never won more than 1 conference game since joining and hadn't won more than 2 games in a season before this year. Credit where it is due, Raeburn made a splash. It will be interesting to see if he can create a trend where they improve by a game or two a year until they become respectable.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on January 09, 2017, 12:16:57 PM
Quote from: jknezek on January 09, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 09, 2017, 09:45:07 AM

Look at Erik Raeburn formerly of Wabash.  He had ALOT of talent coming back, but he didn't look back after being offered the Savannah State job. 


Just a quick note on this, Raeburn went 3-5 in conference with Savannah State this year. That school had never won more than 1 conference game since joining and hadn't won more than 2 games in a season before this year. Credit where it is due, Raeburn made a splash. It will be interesting to see if he can create a trend where they improve by a game or two a year until they become respectable.

Not at all surprising to this guy.  Also note that he didn't even get to SSU until the very end of March (recruiting is done and dusted at that point) and inherited a team on APR probation which took away spring practice (doubt highly that APR is going to be a problem going forward).  ER's teams are going to be prepared and they're going to play sound.  He'll win more games there very quickly with a recruiting cycle or two.  And I think he'll be in FBS in or around 2020.  He's that good. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on January 09, 2017, 12:27:43 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on January 09, 2017, 12:16:57 PM
Quote from: jknezek on January 09, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 09, 2017, 09:45:07 AM

Look at Erik Raeburn formerly of Wabash.  He had ALOT of talent coming back, but he didn't look back after being offered the Savannah State job. 


Just a quick note on this, Raeburn went 3-5 in conference with Savannah State this year. That school had never won more than 1 conference game since joining and hadn't won more than 2 games in a season before this year. Credit where it is due, Raeburn made a splash. It will be interesting to see if he can create a trend where they improve by a game or two a year until they become respectable.

Not at all surprising to this guy.  Also note that he didn't even get to SSU until the very end of March (recruiting is done and dusted at that point) and inherited a team on APR probation which took away spring practice (doubt highly that APR is going to be a problem going forward).  ER's teams are going to be prepared and they're going to play sound.  He'll win more games there very quickly with a recruiting cycle or two.  And I think he'll be in FBS in or around 2020.  He's that good.

Ambitious. I think if he can get them above .500 he will get another FCS job with a higher profile school. Or a Group of Five coordinator job. On the flip side, LL is doing no favors for the "DIII coaches can make the leap to DI" crowd. Yeesh. Last year was no better than what got his predecessor fired, he lost his AD, and this season was a disaster by any measure. He's going to need to turn that around this year, or he will be out so the new AD can bring in his own coach.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 10, 2017, 11:03:30 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 09, 2017, 09:45:07 AM
I just don't think "returning players" is as big a factor as one would think. 

If the HC sees an opportunity to better himself, and he's offered the job then he goes. 

Look at Erik Raeburn formerly of Wabash.  He had ALOT of talent coming back, but he didn't look back after being offered the Savannah State job. 

One thing about the CWRU situation; as good a class as those seniors are, they still have a significant road block to the playoffs in their own conference.

"Returning players" was directed at going to BW, JCU is another story altogether.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on January 17, 2017, 12:23:01 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 10, 2017, 11:03:30 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on January 09, 2017, 09:45:07 AM
I just don't think "returning players" is as big a factor as one would think. 

If the HC sees an opportunity to better himself, and he's offered the job then he goes. 

Look at Erik Raeburn formerly of Wabash.  He had ALOT of talent coming back, but he didn't look back after being offered the Savannah State job. 

One thing about the CWRU situation; as good a class as those seniors are, they still have a significant road block to the playoffs in their own conference.

"Returning players" was directed at going to BW, JCU is another story altogether.

Right but I disagree completely.  I was with some coaches over the weekend and we covered this.  I forget the direct quote, but the gist is they don't generally stay for the returning kids. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 20, 2017, 03:37:05 PM
Waynesburg in search for new HC:

http://www.waynesburgsports.com/news/2017/3/6/football-shepas-retires-after-12-year-jacket-career.aspx?path=football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 20, 2017, 03:53:17 AM
A few updates for Case Western Reserve I've seen:

1) A local scrimmage of John Carroll @ Case Western Reserve scheduled for Aug 25 http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20170409/SPORTS/170409444

2) Incoming Freshman class consists of 45 players from 14 different states (the largest class in recent memory) http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20170505gcni5c

This number is interesting as I seem to recall Debeljak's first year starting at CWRU he had approximately 45 total players.

They'll be joining 71 returning players.

3) DiSanto Field is being resurfaced this month:

DiSanto Field's turf...will be replaced with FieldTurf Revolution 360 fiber with an EcoSense EPDM fill.  The Revolution 360 surface is FieldTurf's top-of-the-line product, and has been used at the new Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, Georgia (future home of the NFL's Atlanta Falcons and MLS' Atlanta United) and Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts (home of the NFL's New England Patriots and MLS' New England Revolution).

http://athletics.case.edu/general/2016-17/releases/20170518ix0tuh

4) Two of last year's captains who were injured/lost at the beginning of the season last year are returning (Cody Calhoun SS and Zech Medved TE).   http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/roster

5) Coach John Pont has left to be Offensive Coordinator at University of Chicago http://athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20170124hcumx14
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 29, 2017, 06:16:55 PM
Nothing to do with football, but as I write this ThePresidents are playing in the final series for he DIII Baseball championship. Their coach played for Alleghany when they won, and he could win as a coach this year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on May 31, 2017, 02:30:22 PM
NEW WILMINGTON, Pa. (pacathletics.org) – Thomas More College President David A. Armstrong, J.D. announced Wednesday that the school will end its 12-year membership in the Presidents' Athletic Conference (PAC) at the conclusion of the 2017-18 academic year.

Thomas More will compete in the PAC regular seasons and conference championships of 19 league-sponsored sports during the 2017-18 academic year.

"Thomas More College has appreciated its time in the PAC and its member institutions. We look forward to competing in the conference during the 2017-18 academic year while establishing a path for the future of our athletic programs that fits our mission as a Catholic liberal arts college that has a reputation for excellence in the classroom and on the field. With record enrollment growth and plans for campus revitalization, we feel it is the best time for TMC to seek new partnerships which will enhance our strategic goals," said Armstrong.

"As a former coach and director of athletics, I've had the opportunity to represent the PAC in various capacities and certainly cherish my time serving as chair of the PAC's Presidents' Council throughout the 60th Anniversary celebration during the 2014-15 academic year. The PAC has been and will continue to be a nationally-respected conference. We are excited to compete in our final seasons this academic year with the PAC and wish our colleagues well in the future."

Located in Crestview Hills, Kentucky, a suburb of Cincinnati, Ohio, Thomas More was announced as the league's seventh member on April 7, 2005 after spending nine years as a Division III independent. Thomas More fields teams in 22 varsity sports and has sent 71 teams to NCAA Championships since joining the NCAA in 1990.

"We have valued our partnership with Thomas More (College) since 2005 and appreciate all of its efforts to support our institutions, our student-athletes and our conference. We have all benefited from Thomas More's presence in our league over the last 12 years and we certainly wish them the best moving forward," said Joe Onderko, PAC Commissioner.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 31, 2017, 02:51:19 PM
So where do they end up, USA South?   Their "reputation for excellence in the classroom" notwithstanding, they don't have the academic chops the SAA requires.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on May 31, 2017, 03:26:46 PM
We've been hearing D-II for several years....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on May 31, 2017, 03:47:14 PM
And if they do, how long until they "Mississippi College" and flip back (and then back again)?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on May 31, 2017, 03:53:18 PM
I'd suspect an announcement soon of their plans since they have about 12 months left.  Seems like they are high tailing it PDQ.

I bet the boys in VA would like them to trade the PACtion for ODACtion...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on May 31, 2017, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on May 31, 2017, 03:53:18 PM
I'd suspect an announcement soon of their plans since they have about 12 months left.  Seems like they are high tailing it PDQ.

I bet the boys in VA would like them to trade the PACtion for ODACtion...

Yep.  It's surprising they'd announce departure plans without future plans, to be honest. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on May 31, 2017, 04:24:59 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 31, 2017, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on May 31, 2017, 03:53:18 PM
I'd suspect an announcement soon of their plans since they have about 12 months left.  Seems like they are high tailing it PDQ.

I bet the boys in VA would like them to trade the PACtion for ODACtion...

Yep.  It's surprising they'd announce departure plans without future plans, to be honest.

That was my thought too. No one wants to be an independent these days. Brutal road. So they must have something else more or less lined up.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 31, 2017, 04:30:40 PM
I agree with Bob - DII is most likely place given their ambitions. Only DII conference that looks logical is the Great Midwest with most schools in Ohio and most of the rest in bordering states. It's a new conference with 8 current members (3 football) and 6 joining this year (all with football). That would make 14 total members with 9 playing football. TMC would round that out. A good fit geographically for TMC - less travel than current PAC locations.

Could they consider NAIA?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on May 31, 2017, 03:47:14 PM
And if they do, how long until they "Mississippi College" and flip back (and then back again)?

... or McMurray. :)

DII has certainly been the rumor... but I can't tell you how many schools I have heard are going to explore DII and that is the last I hear of it (or I just hear it on loop for years). Of those I hear saying they will do it and end up doing it are a very small percentage. I am not sure TMC is in a position to go DII or even NAIA... they may explore it, but I think they may have to find another DIII dance partner. Especially in this financial landscape for colleges and universities... adding that kind of financial impact on the budget doesn't make sense for a lot of schools despite efforts to say or do otherwise.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 04:38:36 PM
I will add that the time needed to even get the ball rolling on joining DII before actually being able to do it and get through the process makes it seem less than ideal. They would be left a drift in DIII with no conference home (because what conference will take them if they are going to leave anyway except maybe the ACAA LOL)... and that could do a lot to derails some of their programs and leave them in worse shape competitively before making such a jump. I am not sure the tea leaves make DII a reasonable idea.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 31, 2017, 04:44:22 PM
Be interesting to hear SaintsFan's perspective
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on May 31, 2017, 04:50:37 PM
NAIA really doesn't have a great conference for them to join either. Maybe Mid-South? Or maybe they stay DIII in the SLIAC? Would that get the SLIAC to 7 football members?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on May 31, 2017, 04:54:56 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on May 31, 2017, 04:30:40 PM
I agree with Bob - DII is most likely place given their ambitions. Only DII conference that looks logical is the Great Midwest with most schools in Ohio and most of the rest in bordering states. It's a new conference with 8 current members (3 football) and 6 joining this year (all with football). That would make 14 total members with 9 playing football. TMC would round that out. A good fit geographically for TMC - less travel than current PAC locations.

Good news for the PAC is that this eliminates the issue of not having a complete round robin in football, unless I am missing something.

Could they consider NAIA?

Bold move given the instances where NAIA teams have moved to NCAA in the past. UVA Wise, Tusculum, Carson Newman, Brevard, Shorter, among others are schools in the "South Region" that have made the NAIA to NCAA switch (more times to D2 instead of D3). Although, Kentucky does have several NAIA schools. I think it's around 12.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 31, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
How about the USA South with Berea as a travel partner?

Does that overload football?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on June 01, 2017, 08:06:30 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 31, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
How about the USA South with Berea as a travel partner?

Does that overload football?

Berea doesn't have a football program unless they've announced something and I missed it, but the USAC already has 9 football members and 19 total members. I personally feel the USAC is getting out of control. The GSAC was basically swallowed up by the USAC and now every school that's moving from NAIA or D2 in the area is joining (which is the case for the new '17 members in Berea, Brevard and Pfeiffer). 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on June 01, 2017, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: jknezek on May 31, 2017, 04:24:59 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 31, 2017, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on May 31, 2017, 03:53:18 PM
I'd suspect an announcement soon of their plans since they have about 12 months left.  Seems like they are high tailing it PDQ.

I bet the boys in VA would like them to trade the PACtion for ODACtion...

Yep.  It's surprising they'd announce departure plans without future plans, to be honest.

That was my thought too. No one wants to be an independent these days. Brutal road. So they must have something else more or less lined up.

Agreed yet again.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 04:38:36 PM
I will add that the time needed to even get the ball rolling on joining DII before actually being able to do it and get through the process makes it seem less than ideal. They would be left a drift in DIII with no conference home (because what conference will take them if they are going to leave anyway except maybe the ACAA LOL)... and that could do a lot to derails some of their programs and leave them in worse shape competitively before making such a jump. I am not sure the tea leaves make DII a reasonable idea.

You know more about this than I do, so I'll trust your expertise here.

Interesting, I figured that I would be one of the first in on this story, only to see that the board is already abuzz.

Anyways, this makes a rather obvious change to the conference landscape (from a football perspective).  We'll see how things go this year but presumably that makes the expected lead-dogs to be W&J, Case, CMU, and Westminster moving forward.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 01, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on June 01, 2017, 10:14:52 AM
You know more about this than I do, so I'll trust your expertise here.

Interesting, I figured that I would be one of the first in on this story, only to see that the board is already abuzz.

Anyways, this makes a rather obvious change to the conference landscape (from a football perspective).  We'll see how things go this year but presumably that makes the expected lead-dogs to be W&J, Case, CMU, and Westminster moving forward.

I agree, but we have to find out what life is like for Case after QBRob graduates.  I remember the lull in between stud QBs and you don't recruit guys like that every other year.   

I know you're not doing this, but I wouldn't count out Thomas More in 2017.  They are returning alot, are uber-talented and are going to have a high level of pisstivity. 

Its really too bad they'll not play Case again - unless both make the dance in 2017 and the committee gives it to us.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on June 01, 2017, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 01, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on June 01, 2017, 10:14:52 AM
You know more about this than I do, so I'll trust your expertise here.

Interesting, I figured that I would be one of the first in on this story, only to see that the board is already abuzz.

Anyways, this makes a rather obvious change to the conference landscape (from a football perspective).  We'll see how things go this year but presumably that makes the expected lead-dogs to be W&J, Case, CMU, and Westminster moving forward.

I agree, but we have to find out what life is like for Case after QBRob graduates.  I remember the lull in between stud QBs and you don't recruit guys like that every other year.   

I know you're not doing this, but I wouldn't count out Thomas More in 2017. They are returning alot, are uber-talented and are going to have a high level of pisstivity. 

Its really too bad they'll not play Case again - unless both make the dance in 2017 and the committee gives it to us.

Ha, I should have been more clear - when I said "moving forward" I meant in the post-TMC era.  Of course they are major contenders this year.

BTW, what is "pisstivity" ?   :P
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 01, 2017, 11:12:56 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on June 01, 2017, 10:58:09 AM
Ha, I should have been more clear - when I said "moving forward" I meant in the post-TMC era.  Of course they are major contenders this year.

BTW, what is "pisstivity" ?   :P

It's an old Chad Ochocinco word from when the Bungles were on Hard Knocks in the late oughts.  It was a pretty funny explanation from him on it and its apparently made it's way into my vocabulary.  I definitely try not to use it at work!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 01, 2017, 11:57:03 AM
Re the talk of going scholarship (either D2 or NAIA-I) ... TMC's endowment of $20M (2015 figures, per USN&WR) would be a stumbling block unless they have athletic supporters who would contribute substantially to the costs inherent in such a transition. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2017, 12:10:04 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on June 01, 2017, 11:57:03 AM
Re the talk of going scholarship (either D2 or NAIA-I) ... TMC's endowment of $20M (2015 figures, per USN&WR) would be a stumbling block unless they have athletic supporters who would contribute substantially to the costs inherent in such a transition.

Yeah... people don't realize how much the scholarships kill athletics budgets. This is the biggest reason I think the idea of transitioning from DIII to DII ends up stalling out for many who are rumored to have looked into it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on June 01, 2017, 12:15:32 PM
TMC (15 M) has the smallest endowment of all the schools in the PAC.

Geneva 28 M
Chatham 53 M
Waynesburg 55 M
Thiel 68 M
St. Vincent 71 M
Bethany 77 M
W&J 104 M
Grove City 111 M

Of course, those (combined) pale in comparison to the Football Only associates:
CWRU 1.66 B
CMU 1.71 B

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 01, 2017, 12:18:19 PM
I've never really understood the point of DII the last 25 years. There is no television revenue to offset the scholarships. You have a very small amount of bragging/recruiting advantage over DIII, but it's just not that much benefit given the costs. Schools can do what they want, obviously, but you can't tell me that switching the DII athletic scholarships over to academic scholarships wouldn't net the same amount of attendance revenue.

There must be something I'm missing.

In TMC's case, however, I still think they must have something lined up. There is no way they are just taking a flyer on going somewhere else eventually. I'll be interested to see whatever they announce.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 01, 2017, 05:17:29 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on June 01, 2017, 12:15:32 PM
TMC (15 M) has the smallest endowment of all the schools in the PAC.

Geneva 28 M
Chatham 53 M
Waynesburg 55 M
Thiel 68 M
St. Vincent 71 M
Bethany 77 M
W&J 104 M
Grove City 111 M

Of course, those (combined) pale in comparison to the Football Only associates:
CWRU 1.66 B
CMU 1.71 B
W&J only $104M!  That surprises me!  I would have expected at least $150M and closer to $250, considering the age of the school, its prominence in higher education in the early 20th century and social status of the alums.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on June 01, 2017, 05:41:08 PM
Ralph, here's a little more recent info on W&J's endowment (closer to your thoughts):

As of the April 2016 update on the College's "An Uncommon Bond" campaign, W&J's endowment has grown from $95.3 million to $133.8 million.

During this same time frame, numerous capital projects have also been started--some finished, some in progress--including the Swanson Tennis Center, the Ross Family Recreation Center.  The U. Grant Miller Library renovation/reconfiguration has just begun and Henry Memorial Center will be shortly.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 01, 2017, 05:51:22 PM
Ralph,

W&J just completing a capital campaign that has raised over $100,000,000 some of which went to endowment. W&J also recently completed a search for a replacement for President Tori Haring-Smith who will retire at the end of July after a very successful 12 years at the helm. According to the prospectus provided to candidates the current endowment is $137,000,000. W&J has about 1,300 students, so the endowment per student is about $100,000 and there is a clear committment to increase that number - by raising more money, not reducing the number of students :)

Jeff in Tennessee

PS Now see that Bob beat me to the punch.

Bob, might be interesting to compare endowment per full time student which might be a more useful metric.  Jeff
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 02, 2017, 10:46:27 AM
Thanks and +1! to Bob and WashJeff 68

$100,000 per student is much closer to what I was expecting. Conrgrats on the $100M capital campaign.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 02, 2017, 01:01:24 PM
Regarding endowment, historic enrollment paints a better picture as well.  I do not think I realized the size differences of CWRU and CMU to be this substantial. 

Institution                                    Location                            Founded       Enrollment
Carnegie Mellon University            Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania              1900            6,362
Case Western Reserve University   Cleveland, Ohio                          1967            4,661
Grove City College                        Grove City, Pennsylvania             1876            2,500
Thomas More College                    Crestview Hills, Kentucky            1921            1,900
Geneva College                            Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania           1848            1,791
Saint Vincent College                    Latrobe, Pennsylvania                 1846            1,652
Washington & Jefferson College     Washington, Pennsylvania           1781            1,519
Waynesburg University                 Waynesburg, Pennsylvania          1849            1,500
Westminster College                     New Wilmington, Pennsylvania    1852            1,482
Thiel College                                Greenville, Pennsylvania             1866            1,066
Bethany College                           Bethany, West Virginia               1840            1,030

Plus I suspect being in a larger city pushes the dollars up a little bit (corporate donations, local executives, etc)

But on that note, I've very surprised to see TMC's endowment only at $15 million...with them being 10 miles from Cincinnati and especially if/when they're considering DII.

What would it cost for DII across all sports?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 02, 2017, 01:03:01 PM
To figure out the costs of DII... figure out how many scholarships are needed for each sport. Do the math across the board for TMC sports. Then add in any additional costs that may be needed for facilities (some may need to be upgraded) and such. Add all of that to the current athletics operating budget.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 02, 2017, 01:34:13 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 02, 2017, 01:03:01 PM
To figure out the costs of DII... figure out how many scholarships are needed for each sport. Do the math across the board for TMC sports. Then add in any additional costs that may be needed for facilities (some may need to be upgraded) and such. Add all of that to the current athletics operating budget.

I had heard once that schools need to make a minimum $1M outlay annually for athletic scholarships to be at the D-II level, but I must emphasize I am no expert in Division II or the D-II NCAA Manual.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 02, 2017, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 02, 2017, 01:34:13 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 02, 2017, 01:03:01 PM
To figure out the costs of DII... figure out how many scholarships are needed for each sport. Do the math across the board for TMC sports. Then add in any additional costs that may be needed for facilities (some may need to be upgraded) and such. Add all of that to the current athletics operating budget.

I had heard once that schools need to make a minimum $1M outlay annually for athletic scholarships to be at the D-II level, but I must emphasize I am no expert in Division II or the D-II NCAA Manual.

I'm no expert either, by a long shot, but if that number were true... that is basically double the average non-football athletics budget in DIII (if memory serves) ... and 33-50% more of an average football athletics budget. That is a lot of money, especially in tough academic times that we are in.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 02, 2017, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: E.115 on June 02, 2017, 01:01:24 PM
Regarding endowment, historic enrollment paints a better picture as well.  I do not think I realized the size differences of CWRU and CMU to be this substantial. 

Institution                                    Location                            Founded       Enrollment
Carnegie Mellon University            Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania              1900            6,362
Case Western Reserve University   Cleveland, Ohio                          1967            4,661

That's undergrad.  CMU is a huge research institution with nearly 14,000 total students; CWRU, close to 12,000.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 02, 2017, 02:09:24 PM
So, to pull Bob's and E.115"s numbers together:

School Name      F/T Undergrads        Endowment (Millions)    Endowment/Student
Bethany                    690                         77                                     111,594
Chatham                   611                         53                                        83,743
Geneva                     1,475                      28                                        18,983
Grove City                2,438                     111                                       45,529
St Vincent                 1,532                     71                                        46,345
Thiel                          1,061                     68                                        64,090
Thomas More             1,140                    15                                        13,157
W&J                           1,318                    137                                       103,945
Waynesburg              1,481                      55                                         37,137
Westminster              1,254                   109                                          86,921             
                   
Note: Enrollments from 2015 US News. Two schools (Chatham, TMC) both have large numbers of P/T students which are not reflected.

Some have significantly different enrollment numbers than E.115.  For TMC this probably represents the large number of P/T and non-traditional students attracted to some of their programs. For others it represents the ebb and flow many small LA schools see in their enrollments.

Given their different missions, comparing CMU and CWRU to the other PAC schools is not meaningful, but for CMU it's 268,783 and CWRU 356,146
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 02, 2017, 02:26:46 PM
This report is a little stale in that it only goes to 2012, but it remarked on revenues and expenses in DII:

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D22013RevExp.pdf

"Virtually all expense indicators have been remarkably steady over
the nine year period, including: athletic aid as 30 to 32 percent of
total expenses for "with FB" schools and 37 down to 36 percent for
"without FB" schools; coaches' compensation at 23 down to 20
percent of overall expenses for "with FB," although this indicator
moved from 19 percent to 17 percent over the period for "without
FB"; and administrative compensation in the 11 to 13 percent range
for both "with FB" and "without FB." (2.7)"

Athletic aid means athletic scholarships, and it is a huge percentage of the budget.  Expenses were between $4 and $5 million on average in 2012, and had risen regularly, so I expect that number to be higher today. From that, we can infer that scholarship costs are, on average, more than $1.2 million per year in DII (4MM x 30%). Expense numbers from page 16, quote came from page 10...

Now even in 2012, there was a large variance. Page 30 shows the aid by quartiles, and it ranged from a low of $600K to a high of almost $3MM (page 30). The middle quartiles were around 900K and 1.3MM.

So yeah, 5 years ago it was going to cost at least $1MM in scholarships to be in the middle of DII. By the way, total revenue for a DII athletic department, on average, was 624K in 2012. So it doesn't even pay for the scholarships let alone anywhere near other expenses. The average Net Generated Revenue, with football, was a loss of $4.5MM. Why does anyone do DII again?

Further salt in the wounds, in 2015 the average operating expense for DIII was a little over $3MM... So even though we don't really have any revenues worth talking about, the cost is only 2/3rds as much as DII, in a comparison of expenses/revenue that is 3 years later..>  http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D32015RevExp.pdf  page 23
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 02, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 02, 2017, 02:09:24 PM
So, to pull Bob's and E.115"s numbers together:

School Name      F/T Undergrads        Endowment (Millions)    Endowment/Student
Bethany                    690                         77                                     111,594
Chatham                   611                         53                                        83,743
Geneva                     1,475                      28                                        18,983
Grove City                2,438                     111                                       45,529
St Vincent                 1,532                     71                                        46,345
Thiel                          1,061                     68                                        64,090
Thomas More             1,140                    15                                        13,157
W&J                           1,318                    137                                       103,945
Waynesburg              1,481                      55                                         37,137
Westminster              1,254                   109                                          86,921             
       

Wow. Those numbers for TMC and Geneva are astonishingly low. When you consider that most schools will only use at most 5-7% of their endowment in a year, you are talking about the endowment funding just a few hundred dollars a year per student. A small blip in enrollment and these schools are going to be on a razor's edge with fixed costs and limited ways to support them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on June 02, 2017, 03:22:28 PM
Wow. Crazy to think wrestling is on par with men's lacrosse in total operating expenses (pg. 23). I would have guess wrestling to be much lower than lacrosse--mat, headgear, some knee and elbow pads, singlets, and a coach is pretty much it.  You more than likely already have a gym, a weight room, and enough locker space for 20 or so guys. Lacrosse needs a field, some nets, fancy helmets and should pads and generally has a large roster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 02, 2017, 07:26:04 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 02, 2017, 02:09:24 PM
So, to pull Bob's and E.115"s numbers together:

School Name      F/T Undergrads        Endowment (Millions)    Endowment/Student
Bethany                    690                         77                                     111,594
Chatham                   611                         53                                        83,743
Geneva                     1,475                      28                                        18,983
Grove City                2,438                     111                                       45,529
St Vincent                 1,532                     71                                        46,345
Thiel                          1,061                     68                                        64,090
Thomas More             1,140                    15                                        13,157
W&J                           1,318                    137                                       103,945
Waynesburg              1,481                      55                                         37,137
Westminster              1,254                   109                                          86,921             
                   
Note: Enrollments from 2015 US News. Two schools (Chatham, TMC) both have large numbers of P/T students which are not reflected.

Some have significantly different enrollment numbers than E.115.  For TMC this probably represents the large number of P/T and non-traditional students attracted to some of their programs. For others it represents the ebb and flow many small LA schools see in their enrollments.

Given their different missions, comparing CMU and CWRU to the other PAC schools is not meaningful, but for CMU it's 268,783 and CWRU 356,146

WashJeff68,

Much thanks for verifying/correcting with proper data.  I pulled from a more unofficial source -- wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents%27_Athletic_Conference#Member_schools

And thanks for the breakdown.  Extremely interesting perspective.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 05, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
Quote from: jknezek on June 02, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 02, 2017, 02:09:24 PM
So, to pull Bob's and E.115"s numbers together:

School Name      F/T Undergrads        Endowment (Millions)    Endowment/Student
Bethany                    690                         77                                     111,594
Chatham                   611                         53                                        83,743
Geneva                     1,475                      28                                        18,983
Grove City                2,438                     111                                       45,529
St Vincent                 1,532                     71                                        46,345
Thiel                          1,061                     68                                        64,090
Thomas More             1,140                    15                                        13,157
W&J                           1,318                    137                                       103,945
Waynesburg              1,481                      55                                         37,137
Westminster              1,254                   109                                          86,921             
       

Wow. Those numbers for TMC and Geneva are astonishingly low. When you consider that most schools will only use at most 5-7% of their endowment in a year, you are talking about the endowment funding just a few hundred dollars a year per student. A small blip in enrollment and these schools are going to be on a razor's edge with fixed costs and limited ways to support them.

Yes.  Now at least people can say, "you're endowment is smaller than ours" to the TMC players.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 05, 2017, 04:59:17 PM
It's raining here in East Tennessee today, so no golf, or chores to attend to.

Given the dialog on this board regarding TMC's athletic future, I did a little research to see if I could answer for myself the question - what are TMC's plans and where will the money come from if their goal is to go DIi?

Most organizations have strategic plans developed by Boards and Management to set the path for the organization's future. TMC has one on their public web site covering years 2015-2020. Also included is a summary of their accomplishments for 2014-2015. If you want to review the 8 page summary of accomplishments, here is the link:

http://www.thomasmore.edu/PDFs/Strategic_Plan_2020_Year1.pdf

Interesting reading, as is the plan itself.

I've been involved working with organizations over the years (both for and not for profit) developing these plans, and I can say, after a quick read, that the one developed by TMC appears to be excellent. I'm just going to highlight some of the data regarding Athletics and fundraising.

Goal 2 (of three) has a specific strategy to "enhance and increase extra curricular activities" which includes athletics. Here are the specifics:

By 2020# of student athletes -   600
Baseline                                      450
2014-15                                     476

There are also goals for student satisfaction with athletics as well.

In Goal 3 there are targets for student retention and enrollment. Here are the numbers for enrollment of traditional students:

By 2020 # of full time traditional undergrads      1,200
Baseline                                                                 919
2014-2015                                                            959

So, TMC is committed to increase athletes in line with student body growth and maintain 50% of student body as athletes (recognizing some play more than one sport).  Bowling and Lacrosse were added 14/15, and Wrestling 15/16. I guess their are still opportunities to add additional sports and have larger rosters for others. I know they have no swimming and diving program - or facility to house it.

Also in Goal 3 are targets to diversify revenue streams beyond tuition. One of these is Total Gifts and Grants:

2020 Target:         $6,500,000
Baseline:              $2,000,000
2014-2015:          $6,556,453 


There are also plans for long range financials. One is value of endowment:

2020 Target: $24,000,000
Baseline:      $15,000,000
2014-2015   $15,200,000

Great success generating gifts and grants, less so for endowment, but perhaps short run, that is the plan. One could conclude that this plan is designed to test their ability to fund raise enough  to transition to DII and meet the other financial needs of the Long Range Plan. They have another year of data on the financials  and will have a third shortly. I think the timing of their leaving the PAC could be based on their confidence that they can fund the transition.

There is a ready made option for a conference in DII. My read is they would have a difficult time finding a home in DIII that would offer anything the PAC doesn't offer unless the OAC makes room for them. I have no idea what the landscape looks like there.  I certainly don't see them joining the HCAC or the NCAC.  Anything else is going to have the same travel issues the PAC has.

All this is, of course, is just supposition on my part. But there has to be a reason why they are leaving the PAC, particularly when they have no alternative they are prepared to reveal.

Jeff in Tennessee








Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: sigma one on June 05, 2017, 07:33:55 PM
What follows is quoted from the NCAA's "Division II partial-scholarship model":

Division II relies on a partial-scholarship model to administer athletics-based financial aid.  Very few of the 110,000 student-athletes . . .will receive a full athletics grant that coers all of their expenses, but most of them will receive some athletics-based financial aid . . . .For the rest of their expenses student-athletes use academic scholarships, student loans, and employment earnings . . . .

The partial-scholarship model allows Division II schools to recognize student-athletes for their skills . . . while at the same time keeping athletics budgets more in line with the institution's bottom line. . . .The net operating costs for Division II tend to be LOWER THAN FOR PROGRAMS IN DIVISION III (primarily because of higher net operating revenue in Division II)  [capital emphasis mine], , , ,

For example, in football schools are allowed to award up to 36 "equivalences" or full grants, but of course the rosters in football are much larger than 36 players . . . .This means that some students-athetes my receive more athletics-based aid that others, and some will not receive any at all [end of NCAA model],.

So, the NCAA says that for many DII schools the total athletics budgets may well be smaller than the athletic budgets at DIII schools.  In part, this is because the cost of "equivalences" is often partially offset by a reduction in other kinds of institutionally-sponsored financial aid.  Whereas a football player at a DIII school, for instance, might receive need-based aid and merit (academic) aid without regard to his athletic potential or prior athletic performance (athletic performance being prohibited by the NCAA as a reason for awarding financial aid in jDIII), in DII the player will receive some percentage of an athletic scholarship, and perhaps then less need based aid, and may well receive merit aid as well.  If carefully managed, some institutional funds once committed to financial aid for need and merit could be allocated for athletics-based aid.  Again, if carefully done, schools could attract more student-athletes, receiving some additional income from an increase in the size of the student body, while not substantially increasing their total financial aid for all reasons.

As a brief case in point, Wabash College annually competes for student-atheltes against DII schools (as to most other DIII institutions).  Wabash loses quite a few of the battles because a DII schools offers a partial "equivalency," sometimes as little as a few thousand dollars.  Although the total financial aid packages at the two institutions are about the same (and occasionally Wabash's package is a little higher), the Wabash package contains no athletics aid while the DII school's package does.  The pride to an athlete, to the family, and sometimes to the community of receiving an "athletic scholarship" tilt the admission decision in favor of the DII school.   After all, receiving an athletic scholarship is a dream for a lot of student-athletes.  Signing that letter of intent is a big deal.

If Thomas More decides to go DII, while planning to increase the total number of intercollegiate athletes and the total size of the student body, they could well end up with more revenue on the bottom line than remaining in DIII.  Smart people run those budgets; I'm betting they know the bottom line potentials if their total admissions plan can be realized.  Their small endowment only increases the need for the additional revenue generated by the combination of factors I've mentioned.   It may be their chance to live long and prosper.
Too long winded, but thanks for reading.     
 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 06, 2017, 12:11:22 AM
That enhanced endowment is still tiny, especially if they are planning to increase enrollment by 25%.   Do they have the campus to accommodate that many more students, because if they have to add academic facilities and/or student housing, that $6M/year in gifts/grants won't go very far. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 06, 2017, 10:33:28 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 05, 2017, 04:59:17 PM
Anything else is going to have the same travel issues the PAC has.

All this is, of course, is just supposition on my part. But there has to be a reason why they are leaving the PAC, particularly when they have no alternative they are prepared to reveal.

Jeff in Tennessee

Travel was not a consideration for leaving the PAC. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 06, 2017, 06:29:54 PM
Case Western Reserve DE Cameron Brown was highlighted in the Cleveland news today (and short video):

http://s.cleveland.com/qDN4avF

His dad is Mike Brown, Assistant Coach for the Golden State Warriors, who coached and won Game 1 of the NBA Finals this year.

San Francisco and New York gave Cameron a shout out as well:

http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-Mike-Brown-prepares-to-coach-against-11183664.php
http://nypost.com/2017/05/26/this-is-mike-browns-chance-for-revenge-on-lebron-james/

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 07, 2017, 06:01:57 PM
Gang,

I just saw that CWRU is apparently in the new Street and Smith's college football preview Division III pre-season Top 25!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBvk22CWsAQspPd.jpg)

Looks like I may have to run over to Barnes and Noble and pick up a copy!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 08, 2017, 10:41:26 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on June 07, 2017, 06:01:57 PM
Gang,

I just saw that CWRU is apparently in the new Street and Smith's college football preview Division III pre-season Top 25!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBvk22CWsAQspPd.jpg)

Looks like I may have to run over to Barnes and Noble and pick up a copy!

I wouldn't, unless you think thats the best CWRU will be ranked.  This is terrible:  for starters, how do you not have the defending champs at #1?  And to me, any poll with Monmouth in the top 20 should be thrown out. 

Plus, the guys who do the polling around here are pretty good people.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2017, 11:05:55 AM
Uhm ... UMHB won't be No. 1 on my ballot. They lose a bunch and Mount Union loses almost nothing.

We can revisit this on Dec. 17, though. :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 09, 2017, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2017, 11:05:55 AM
Uhm ... UMHB won't be No. 1 on my ballot. They lose a bunch and Mount Union loses almost nothing.

We can revisit this on Dec. 17, though. :)

I wish to revisit this late next month!

But otherwise you agree with the Monmouth reference?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 09, 2017, 03:13:03 PM
Two things surprised me about the Street & Smith rankings:

First,  W& J ranked #11. They have some big shoes to fill at QB. I think they have to earn their way into the rankings.

Second, TMC not ranked, which would seem to imply that TMC is the third best team in the PAC. I think most (if not all) objective people would disagee with that.

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 09, 2017, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on June 07, 2017, 06:01:57 PM
Gang,

I just saw that CWRU is apparently in the new Street and Smith's college football preview Division III pre-season Top 25!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBvk22CWsAQspPd.jpg)

Looks like I may have to run over to Barnes and Noble and pick up a copy!
Save your money and buy Kickoff 2017 (unless you want it for your souvenir collection :) ).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HansenRatings on June 14, 2017, 01:31:02 PM
Decided I'm going to spam every conference board with my preseason (non-returning-starter-adjusted) projections.


Team   Rating   Overall   Conference
TMC      0.9657   9.1-0.9   7.2-0.8
Westminster   0.8739   6.8-3.2   5.5-2.5
Wash & Jeff   0.8505   7.1-2.9   5.6-2.4
CWRU      0.8422   7.8-2.2   6.3-1.7
CMU      0.7728   5.9-4.1   4.6-3.4
Bethany   0.5251   3.9-6.1   2.9-5.1
SVU      0.4898   4.2-5.8   2.8-5.2
Geneva      0.4634   4.1-5.9   3.1-4.9
Waynesburg   0.4558   3.6-6.4   3.0-5.0
Thiel      0.2744   2.9-7.1   1.8-6.2
Grove City   0.1519   1.3-8.7   1.1-6.9

I agree mostly with the conversations above. TMC is clearly the best team in the conference until proven otherwise. The one thing I would add is the Westminster shouldn't be slept on either. They might have the toughest non-conference game in the conference, so don't let the overall record fool you, they're as much a threat to win the conference as W&J or CWRU (who again has the easiest schedule in the conference).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on June 21, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Don't know if anyone else has seen this on FootballScoop, but TMC is "currently looking for football games during the 2018 season"...weeks 3-11. Open for D3, NAIA or D2 opponents.

Doesn't look like they had much of a game plan when they announced they were leaving the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 21, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on June 21, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Don't know if anyone else has seen this on FootballScoop, but TMC is "currently looking for football games during the 2018 season"...weeks 3-11. Open for D3, NAIA or D2 opponents.

Doesn't look like they had much of a game plan when they announced they were leaving the PAC.

Ouch. That's a tough way to run a program. Even temporarily.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 21, 2017, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on June 21, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Don't know if anyone else has seen this on FootballScoop, but TMC is "currently looking for football games during the 2018 season"...weeks 3-11. Open for D3, NAIA or D2 opponents.

Doesn't look like they had much of a game plan when they announced they were leaving the PAC.

As we've said multiple times, announcements of leaving a conference without an accompanying announcement of joining another are ... unusual.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 21, 2017, 01:06:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 21, 2017, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on June 21, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Don't know if anyone else has seen this on FootballScoop, but TMC is "currently looking for football games during the 2018 season"...weeks 3-11. Open for D3, NAIA or D2 opponents.

Doesn't look like they had much of a game plan when they announced they were leaving the PAC.

As we've said multiple times, announcements of leaving a conference without an accompanying announcement of joining another are ... unusual.

Unusual... yep... that's one word. LOL
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 21, 2017, 02:06:14 PM
Why did TMC decide to leave the PAC?

Here is  link to the PAC Manual:

http://pacathletics.org/sports/2012/9/24/manual1.aspx?id=27&

Here is a section from that document:

Section E. Withdrawal/Expulsion
A member institution may withdraw from membership in the conference on two (2) year's advance notice.

Expulsion:
1. Any member which fails to meet the conditions and obligations of membership may be terminated,
suspended or otherwise disciplined by a three-quarters (75 percent) affirmative vote of all Presidents
Council members (excluding the institution in question), provided that notice of intent to invoke
disciplinary action is made in writing to the affected member and all other members at least thirty (30)
days prior to the date when the action is proposed to be taken.

2. Grounds for disciplinary action shall include, without limitation, failure to pay dues or fines, failure to
comply with conference scheduling requirements, any action or inaction which constitutes a violation of
the conference Agreement, Code of Regulations, and Bylaws or any other major violation of an NCAA
Division III rule or regulation
, and any action or inaction which reflects poorly upon the reputation and integrity of the conference.

– top –

Here is a link to the NCAA ruling on TMC's Women's Basketball rules infraction dated November 15, 2016:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016INF_ThomasMorePubli%20InfractionsDecision_20161115.pdf

Here is the "analysis" from the NCAA decision

IV. ANALYSIS
The violations in this case centered on an extra benefit in the women's basketball program. The
institution agreed that the athletics department learned of the arrangement and failed to withhold
the student-athlete from competition. The head coach failed to fulfill his head coach
responsibility. And the institution failed to fulfill its monitoring responsibilities. The institution
agreed major violations occurred but, along with the head coach, believed the head coach
responsibility violation was secondary in nature. The committee agrees the violations occurred
and concludes that all violations are major.



Draw your own conclusion.




Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 21, 2017, 02:34:04 PM
I guess all the hints are this was not voluntary. I get that. Just not a pretty picture either way for TMC. I mean, E&H got tagged with some pretty ugly stuff as well across something like 9 sports, but the ODAC didn't just pitch them out on their rear. I guess it all depends on whether you are the kind of people the rest of the conference likes to think they should associate with.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on June 21, 2017, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 21, 2017, 02:06:14 PM
Why did TMC decide to leave the PAC?

Here is  link to the PAC Manual:

http://pacathletics.org/sports/2012/9/24/manual1.aspx?id=27&

Here is a section from that document:

Section E. Withdrawal/Expulsion
A member institution may withdraw from membership in the conference on two (2) year's advance notice.

Expulsion:
1. Any member which fails to meet the conditions and obligations of membership may be terminated,
suspended or otherwise disciplined by a three-quarters (75 percent) affirmative vote of all Presidents
Council members (excluding the institution in question), provided that notice of intent to invoke
disciplinary action is made in writing to the affected member and all other members at least thirty (30)
days prior to the date when the action is proposed to be taken.

2. Grounds for disciplinary action shall include, without limitation, failure to pay dues or fines, failure to
comply with conference scheduling requirements, any action or inaction which constitutes a violation of
the conference Agreement, Code of Regulations, and Bylaws or any other major violation of an NCAA
Division III rule or regulation
, and any action or inaction which reflects poorly upon the reputation and integrity of the conference.

– top –

Here is a link to the NCAA ruling on TMC's Women's Basketball rules infraction dated November 15, 2016:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016INF_ThomasMorePubli%20InfractionsDecision_20161115.pdf

Here is the "analysis" from the NCAA decision

IV. ANALYSIS
The violations in this case centered on an extra benefit in the women's basketball program. The
institution agreed that the athletics department learned of the arrangement and failed to withhold
the student-athlete from competition. The head coach failed to fulfill his head coach
responsibility. And the institution failed to fulfill its monitoring responsibilities. The institution
agreed major violations occurred but, along with the head coach, believed the head coach
responsibility violation was secondary in nature. The committee agrees the violations occurred
and concludes that all violations are major.



Draw your own conclusion.

My conclusion is that none of this is happening if either of the following aren't true:
1) The PAC has an excess of teams
2) TMC is a high achiever
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 21, 2017, 03:39:26 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on June 21, 2017, 03:35:47 PM

My conclusion is that none of this is happening if either of the following aren't true:
1) The PAC has an excess of teams
2) TMC is a high achiever

3) TMC isn't athletically kicking PAC rear end in high profile sports.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 21, 2017, 04:25:00 PM
jknezek,

Actually, they are. This year the TMC men won the PAC all sports trophy while the women came in 2nd. TMC President, David Armstrong, is a former college FB coach and athletic director. Since he arrived on campus in 2013 there has been a major emphasis on upgrading the sports program. This year, it really bore fruit.

Here is how the men's teams fared: FIRST PLACE  golf, tennis, basketball, track and field (I) football. SECOND track and field (O), soccer FOURTH wrestling (new sport), cross country. In the past they have been hampered by not having teams in several sports, but they have taken steps to correct that, All they need is swimming and diving and I think they will have all the PAC sports.

Given their plans for sports as detailed in their strategic plan they certainly would have been well positioned to continue to be the top athletic program in the PAC.

The women finished second this year with four teams finishing FIRST golf, softball, basketball, soccer SECOND volleyball FOURTH tennis, both track teams finishing FIFTH and cross county SEVENTH.

Not saying anything is wrong with this. Look at the schools that are at the top of the Learfield Directors Cup and you will see some top academic schools that also excel in sports.

is wally_wabash right? Who knows. I suspect decisions such as this are not easy and there are as many agendas as there are players. When TMC joined the PAC it was a win win. TMC got a conference and the PAC got an automatic bid to the football playoffs.  Now TMC has no conference and the PAC still has a plethora of teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 21, 2017, 04:34:27 PM
One all-sports championship hardly constitutes kicking PAC rear-end.    Guess it's a moot point now.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 21, 2017, 04:46:20 PM
Ah the double negative got me. I meant that the PAC might have been happier keeping them if TMC wasn't winning so much.

I know about academic teams doing well. W&L dominates the ODAC. We have our own equivalent of your All-Sports Trophy. W&L swept the men's, women's and overall trophies for the second year in a row. It is the men's 4th in the last 5 Cups, 17th overall, and the women's 13th straight, 15th overall. I believe it is the school's 15 straight combined Cup, 19th Overall.

Trying to remember, but the total number of Cups is in the low 20s, so W&L men have won about 75% of them, the women about the same, but they haven't lost in forever. In the Overall, I think we've only lost that maybe 3 or 4 times in over 20 years.

So W&L dominates the ODAC athletic scene while being the top ranked academic school by a fair margin. I get that being a strong academic school doesn't preclude you from being good athletically, though I do think it makes football more challenging, and sports like golf and tennis less challenging.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 21, 2017, 04:48:27 PM
Ron,

True, but I suspect it would have been the first of many. Of course, that is speculation and we will never know. Be interesting to see what the future holds for TMC. I wish them the best.

Jeff
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 22, 2017, 10:02:20 AM
OK, so I see the board has caught up to the likely line of thinking. :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 22, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 22, 2017, 10:02:20 AM
OK, so I see the board has caught up to the likely line of thinking. :)

I think most of us had that thinking at least in the back of our minds when the announcement was made, but for the sake of TMC had hoped they had a different home more or less lined up. It will be difficult to fill schedules in many sports, and the people that will really suffer are the student athletes. The vast majority of whom probably played no role in any of this...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 22, 2017, 12:12:56 PM
And over in the MIAA you have the conference telling Kalamazoo it had to vacate all MIAA wins for four seasons and banning them from championships for the upcoming year, but they get to stay in the conference.   http://www.miaa.org/general/2016-17/releases/Kalamazoo


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 22, 2017, 12:24:47 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on June 22, 2017, 12:12:56 PM
And over in the MIAA you have the conference telling Kalamazoo it had to vacate all MIAA wins for four seasons and banning them from championships for the upcoming year, but they get to stay in the conference.   http://www.miaa.org/general/2016-17/releases/Kalamazoo

Which just indicates that the PAC really wanted to cut loose their red-headed step child and that TMC served them the excuse on a malfeasance platter. Done is done I guess. I'm still interested in what TMC will do now. Being an independent is only a short term option.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on June 22, 2017, 01:05:22 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on June 22, 2017, 12:12:56 PM
And over in the MIAA you have the conference telling Kalamazoo it had to vacate all MIAA wins for four seasons and banning them from championships for the upcoming year, but they get to stay in the conference.   http://www.miaa.org/general/2016-17/releases/Kalamazoo

Not knowing how Kalamazoo performed in other sports over the last three years:

KC:
2016 3-7
2015 3-7
2014 2-8

TMC:
2016 9-2
2015 11-1
2014 8-2


Kicking Kalamazoo out of the MIAA would seem like more punishment on the rest of MIAA, but kicking TMC out of the PAC was a blessing on the rest the group. Hard to fault the MIAA or the PAC in their decisions.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 22, 2017, 01:20:22 PM
KC has been an MIAA member since 1896
TMC has been a member of the PAC since 2004.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on June 22, 2017, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 22, 2017, 01:20:22 PM
KC has been an MIAA member since 1896
TMC has been a member of the PAC since 2004.

Maybe that's why the MIAA website says they are the oldest college sports conference...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 22, 2017, 01:56:17 PM
Could also be why they were cut more slack than TMC
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 22, 2017, 02:27:25 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on June 21, 2017, 04:34:27 PM
One all-sports championship hardly constitutes kicking PAC rear-end.    Guess it's a moot point now.

While it may have only been one sport... let's admit it was a massive violation... first ever basketball championship to be vacated in Division III and it certainly garnered a LOT of attention as a result. It wasn't like it was a "smaller" sport that barely anyone noticed.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on June 22, 2017, 02:57:58 PM
Noted, but in my opinion, it was a bigger headline because of the person involved and the previous institution. Not saying it wouldn't have been news without said family in the mix, but it certainly didn't hurt. Look at the E&H thing a few years ago--a football player from Appalachian State transferred and was apparently promised housing and financial aid from coaches/FinAid office. Granted E&H didn't win the Stagg Bowl, but I guarantee a significantly smaller D3 population knows about the latter.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 22, 2017, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on June 22, 2017, 02:57:58 PM
Noted, but in my opinion, it was a bigger headline because of the person involved and the previous institution. Not saying it wouldn't have been news without said family in the mix, but it certainly didn't hurt. Look at the E&H thing a few years ago--a football player from Appalachian State transferred and was apparently promised housing and financial aid from coaches/FinAid office. Granted E&H didn't win the Stagg Bowl, but I guarantee a significantly smaller D3 population knows about the latter.

When a national title is taken away... by default a larger audience is aware no matter who is involved. When an entire season of wins (30+) is stripped away... a larger audience is going to be aware.

I understand your point, but a lot of violations by smaller or less successful programs occur all of the time in all three divisions of the NCAA (have you seen the fallout today from the Kalamazoo violations last year?). I would garner those are not as well known because the programs are not as successful. While certainly there was a name people knew in the mix (though, I think less care about the "family" name than most), the biggest reason the story was big was because one of the best programs this decade (well before Moss arrived) lost an undefeated season and title. What exactly did E&H lose that makes people remember it? That is the biggest difference in these cases.

Heck... bet many missed the York (N.Y.) men's basketball case recently.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 23, 2017, 08:17:11 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 22, 2017, 01:20:22 PM
KC has been an MIAA member since 1896
TMC has been a member of the PAC since 2004.
..and helped the PAC earn a Pool A bid in football, and move out of Pool B by the 2007 season.

This was before the PAC picked up Geneva and St Vincent.

Crestview Hills KY is 300 miles west of Pittsburgh. IMHO, the benefits to adding TMC are apparent.
Now the PresAC doesn't need the hassle of an isolated school 5 hours away.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 28, 2017, 11:36:53 AM
CWRU schedules for 2018 & 2019  PAC goes to full 9-game conf sched.  Looks like Spartans picked up CMU's 2018 game with Rocheter, as TArtans had two non-conf games set for 2018.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 28, 2017, 02:00:06 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 21, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
Ouch. That's a tough way to run a program. Even temporarily.

They've done it before and were a playoff team during one of these years under Dean Paul.  Short-term, they'll be okay.  The players they have in the program and coming in will continue to be impressive.  For the other sports, there are plenty of schools within a 3 hour drive of Cincinnati, outside of MSJ, of course.  Short-term, they'll be okay. 

Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 21, 2017, 04:25:00 PM
is wally_wabash right? Who knows. I suspect decisions such as this are not easy and there are as many agendas as there are players. When TMC joined the PAC it was a win win. TMC got a conference and the PAC got an automatic bid to the football playoffs.  Now TMC has no conference and the PAC still has a plethora of teams.

They have a plethora of teams, but PAC is losing a very strong (top 15) football program.  This will hurt the overall strength of the conference. 

Quote from: jknezek on June 22, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
I think most of us had that thinking at least in the back of our minds when the announcement was made, but for the sake of TMC had hoped they had a different home more or less lined up. It will be difficult to fill schedules in many sports, and the people that will really suffer are the student athletes. The vast majority of whom probably played no role in any of this...

As an attractive free agent, I expect them to field an offer or two in D3 and stay in the division. 

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 22, 2017, 08:23:11 PM
When a national title is taken away... by default a larger audience is aware no matter who is involved. When an entire season of wins (30+) is stripped away... a larger audience is going to be aware.

I understand your point, but a lot of violations by smaller or less successful programs occur all of the time in all three divisions of the NCAA (have you seen the fallout today from the Kalamazoo violations last year?). I would garner those are not as well known because the programs are not as successful. While certainly there was a name people knew in the mix (though, I think less care about the "family" name than most), the biggest reason the story was big was because one of the best programs this decade (well before Moss arrived) lost an undefeated season and title. What exactly did E&H lose that makes people remember it? That is the biggest difference in these cases.

Heck... bet many missed the York (N.Y.) men's basketball case recently.
the NCAA were receiving multiple "anonymous tips" about this player.  If the player's name was Smith, there wouldn't have been an investigation.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 28, 2017, 11:10:25 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on June 28, 2017, 11:36:53 AM
CWRU schedules for 2018 & 2019  PAC goes to full 9-game conf sched.  Looks like Spartans picked up CMU's 2018 game with Rocheter, as TArtans had two non-conf games set for 2018.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

Thanks.  Great find.

I am happy to see previous UAA foe Rochester back on the schedule...and interesting to consider this will be least  traveling distance-wise the team will have done in probably several previous decades.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 07:47:37 AM
Quote from: jknezek on June 22, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
.......the people that will really suffer are the student athletes. The vast majority of whom probably played no role in any of this...

Isn't this the problem throughout the entire NCAA?  After all if the player in question had simply been allowed to transfer to the program of her choice (likely Kentucky) none of this would have happened.  The NCAA is an institution that has rules that are disrespectful to players in so many ways.

Why should the first school she played for control the rest of her college career?  If she wanted out she should have been allowed to transfer.  NCAA gives these coaches tremendous power over student athletes.  A student athlete receives their scholarship for the year and fulfills their service.  I don't think schools should be allowed to control anything after the school year ends.

Why can't players make money from things like appearances and photo shoots?  Other students are allowed to get jobs related to their skills.

How can an institution strip away wins?  It is totally disrespectful to the other players involved in those games.  The games were played and this young lady was not the only one on the court.

I agree that TMC broke the rules but there has to be a better way to punish a program than punishing students who were not involved in the infraction. 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 09:26:54 AM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 07:47:37 AM
Isn't this the problem throughout the entire NCAA?  After all if the player in question had simply been allowed to transfer to the program of her choice (likely Kentucky) none of this would have happened.  The NCAA is an institution that has rules that are disrespectful to players in so many ways.

Why should the first school she played for control the rest of her college career?  If she wanted out she should have been allowed to transfer.  NCAA gives these coaches tremendous power over student athletes.  A student athlete receives their scholarship for the year and fulfills their service.  I don't think schools should be allowed to control anything after the school year ends.

Agreed. Players should be tied to the school they compete at for the academic year in which they competed or for the amount of time they received a guaranteed scholarship. Scholarship granting schools should have the ability to grant 1-4 year guaranteed scholarships, and they should be able to have an approved transfer list only if the student is still under guaranteed scholarship and has not finished his/her degree.

Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 07:47:37 AM
Why can't players make money from things like appearances and photo shoots?  Other students are allowed to get jobs related to their skills.

I agree on this except you can see the potential for abuse right? Powerful booster promises a 5 star X number of dollars, per year, based on a single signed item or photo shoot. It's essentially pay to play. The NCAA shouldn't be in position of trying to judge if the pay is appropriate to the job performed. The NCAA has enough trouble enforcing simple rules. This would be a nightmare, so I understand why they fight against this even though it makes perfect sense.

Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 07:47:37 AM
How can an institution strip away wins?  It is totally disrespectful to the other players involved in those games.  The games were played and this young lady was not the only one on the court.

I agree that TMC broke the rules but there has to be a better way to punish a program than punishing students who were not involved in the infraction.

Here's where we really disagree. It's a team game. Isn't that what we always hear? You win as a team, you lose as a team. Therefore you skirt the rules as a team as well. Especially when there are coaches involved who should know better. There isn't another way to handle this.

** yes I amended this. I didn't like the connotation of the wording of my original post in relation to the facts of the TMC case.




Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 01:49:38 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 28, 2017, 02:00:06 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 22, 2017, 08:23:11 PM
When a national title is taken away... by default a larger audience is aware no matter who is involved. When an entire season of wins (30+) is stripped away... a larger audience is going to be aware.

I understand your point, but a lot of violations by smaller or less successful programs occur all of the time in all three divisions of the NCAA (have you seen the fallout today from the Kalamazoo violations last year?). I would garner those are not as well known because the programs are not as successful. While certainly there was a name people knew in the mix (though, I think less care about the "family" name than most), the biggest reason the story was big was because one of the best programs this decade (well before Moss arrived) lost an undefeated season and title. What exactly did E&H lose that makes people remember it? That is the biggest difference in these cases.

Heck... bet many missed the York (N.Y.) men's basketball case recently.
the NCAA were receiving multiple "anonymous tips" about this player.  If the player's name was Smith, there wouldn't have been an investigation.

No and no.

There was one anonymous tip. It is revealed when you read the report. Just one tip with follow up information from the same individual.

Secondly, I can point to a lot of other investigations from the NCAA per players named "Smith" that garnered pretty severe penalties. You don't have to look very far. Baruch and York (N.Y.) in just the last year. Emory and Henry football a few years ago. Kalamazoo in the last few years (including the MIAA's penalties against them revealed in the last week or two).

Yes, the player was more famous and wasn't exactly kept secret by the NCAA report. Yes, the report seemed to point a lot of time on her and who she was and her background, but don't confuse for a minute that because of who she was the school was suddenly in hotter water than others. Yes, they lost a national championship and no one has had that happen in basketball... but then again, no team that has gone undefeated and won a national title has had an investigation reveal major penalties that warranted vacating games from that season, either. Just because it happened to TMC doesn't mean the NCAA (Division III itself to be clear) hasn't been harsh with other schools who didn't have famous players.

An even better example of this would be TCNJ and their women's basketball program not that long ago. Those ripple effects are still being felt and it ended up pointing to even bigger problems on the entire campus/department. The name on the back of the jersey just made the story juicier, it didn't change the outcome or the verdict (or penalty).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 02:01:11 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 09:26:54 AMI agree on this except you can see the potential for abuse right? Powerful booster promises a 5 star X number of dollars, per year, based on a single signed item or photo shoot. It's essentially pay to play. The NCAA shouldn't be in position of trying to judge if the pay is appropriate to the job performed. The NCAA has enough trouble enforcing simple rules. This would be a nightmare, so I understand why they fight against this even though it makes perfect sense.

I do see the potential for abuse but as a parent of two athletes and one non athlete I see a tremendous disparity between athletes and non athletes in this regard.  My middle son is a student studying music.  He has a scholarship.  He gets paid to play all the time.  He gets paid to give lessons.  They should figure out a way.  There shouldn't be such a disparity.

Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 09:26:54 AM
Here's where we really disagree. It's a team game. Isn't that what we always hear? You win as a team, you lose as a team. Therefore you skirt the rules as a team as well. Especially when there are coaches involved who should know better. There isn't another way to handle this.

The thing is I really do see this as ore of a coaching and institutional failure and less of a failure of the player.  That is why I hate to see the other players punished.  I agree in principle that the players win and lose as a team but when the people who really should know better aren't really affected as much as the student athletes I have problems with  the resolution. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 02:08:24 PM
While I agree that a punishment can hurt the players, I am not exactly sure how else to send a message in a lot of these cases. There is "Show of Cause" for administrators and coaches which essentially would kill a career (especially depending on how many years that SOC is up for), but that is the nuclear option of sorts. There has to be steps before that and there aren't a lot of steps that doesn't ultimately hurt a team.

We have seen post-season bans, we have seen vacated games (which honestly doesn't really do anything), we have seen practice time and other items taken away... but they ultimately always impact the team even if a coach is suspended for a period of time.

I agree, it sucks that current players take the hit for past teams, but how else would a punishment work? You have to send a message to the coach, the program, the department, and administrators that the transgression will not be tolerated. Not much you can do retroactively to send that message.

And by the way, same thing happens in the "real world" at jobs if the rules are broken. Doesn't matter if the employee was there or not when it happened and if they were involved. Weird analogy I admit, but it isn't like people aren't affected by bad decisions in the past all of the time. It helps send the message to everyone.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 02:01:11 PM

I do see the potential for abuse but as a parent of two athletes and one non athlete I see a tremendous disparity between athletes and non athletes in this regard.  My middle son is a student studying music.  He has a scholarship.  He gets paid to play all the time.  He gets paid to give lessons.  They should figure out a way.  There shouldn't be such a disparity.
Except your son actually does the lessons. We saw how many examples of athletes "working" a summer job or something else in the past for a booster company where they never showed up or never did anything if they did? It's too hard to police, but if you don't police it, then it is too easy to just run around the rules. The NCAA is stuck in an untenable position that they insist on defending. There simply is too much money in big-time college sports and the rules to try and keep it out of players hands filter down to small-time college sports.

Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 02:01:11 PM
The thing is I really do see this as ore of a coaching and institutional failure and less of a failure of the player.  That is why I hate to see the other players punished.  I agree in principle that the players win and lose as a team but when the people who really should know better aren't really affected as much as the student athletes I have problems with  the resolution.

I don't disagree, but if you play games with an ineligible player, then those games have to be forfeited. That's the whole point of having eligible versus ineligible players. We had the same thing happen to us once when I was a kid in club soccer. Our team was playing U13 and we had a kid that moved to town from Panama. The documentation he had provided showed one birth date. A year later he had documentation with a a different birth date. One before the cut-off, the latter after. We forfeited the previous season and our championship because he was declared ineligible. I don't even think he knew which date was correct. But he was ineligible. Were we all "punished?" Yes. Was that right? I don't know. But it wasn't right to play with a player that shouldn't have been playing. That wasn't fair to the other teams.

Whose to say TMC's opponents didn't lose a kid that couldn't afford to stay in school or who had to take the year off for injury but might have stayed if she had been able to stay at a coach's house or could have stayed in school if she could have borrowed the coach's car? That's the hypothetical that underlines the rule. It's supposed to be everyone on the same playing field, and the coach, who should have known better, influenced that playing field.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 02:34:55 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on June 29, 2017, 02:01:11 PM

I do see the potential for abuse but as a parent of two athletes and one non athlete I see a tremendous disparity between athletes and non athletes in this regard.  My middle son is a student studying music.  He has a scholarship.  He gets paid to play all the time.  He gets paid to give lessons.  They should figure out a way.  There shouldn't be such a disparity.
Except your son actually does the lessons. We saw how many examples of athletes "working" a summer job or something else in the past for a booster company where they never showed up or never did anything if they did? It's too hard to police, but if you don't police it, then it is too easy to just run around the rules. The NCAA is stuck in an untenable position that they insist on defending. There simply is too much money in big-time college sports and the rules to try and keep it out of players hands filter down to small-time college sports.

FYI when you say "they insist on defending" remember that those who make the rules in the NCAA are the schools themselves. Each Division votes on its own set of rules and each member institution votes on rules for the entire NCAA. The NCAA itself, Indy per se, is then tasked with enforcing those rules. So those who are making the rules and defending them are the schools that make up the NCAA, not those randomly in Indy. It isn't like schools are being told by the NCAA how to do things, the schools are making those rules themselves. Furthermore, the infractions committees and all other committees and groups are made up by institutions and conferences, not those who are in Indy.

Keep that all in mind when you think of the NCAA... because those in Indy are just enforcing the rules and doing the job(s) the institutions that make up the NCAA tell them to enforce and such.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 02:47:16 PM
I get that. I also get that the schools are all afraid someone else will find a loophole, so they vote for these rules on each other assuming they will never be the ones with violations. But as stakes continue to go up at the highest levels, and coaches get more and more desperate to win since they are hired to win, not graduate student athletes, the coaches and their boosters look harder and harder for the loopholes. Getting the Presidents to pass more and more restrictions that are difficult to enforce, all while their own underlings are trying to undermine them.

It's an asinine system, but it's what we have.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 02:47:16 PM
I get that. I also get that the schools are all afraid someone else will find a loophole, so they vote for these rules on each other assuming they will never be the ones with violations. But as stakes continue to go up at the highest levels, and coaches get more and more desperate to win since they are hired to win, not graduate student athletes, the coaches and their boosters look harder and harder for the loopholes. Getting the Presidents to pass more and more restrictions that are difficult to enforce, all while their own underlings are trying to undermine them.

It's an asinine system, but it's what we have.

While I certainly see more pressure to win in DIII... the pressure is also on to graduate. Otherwise, DIII has no point to exist. While I can see some of your thoughts pertaining to DI... they don't as much down here. Thankfully.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 03:01:19 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 02:47:16 PM
I get that. I also get that the schools are all afraid someone else will find a loophole, so they vote for these rules on each other assuming they will never be the ones with violations. But as stakes continue to go up at the highest levels, and coaches get more and more desperate to win since they are hired to win, not graduate student athletes, the coaches and their boosters look harder and harder for the loopholes. Getting the Presidents to pass more and more restrictions that are difficult to enforce, all while their own underlings are trying to undermine them.

It's an asinine system, but it's what we have.

While I certainly see more pressure to win in DIII... the pressure is also on to graduate. Otherwise, DIII has no point to exist. While I can see some of your thoughts pertaining to DI... they don't as much down here. Thankfully.

Absolutely agree. But the rules tend to trickle down, don't they? I get they can all vote their own rules, but are the rules for paid work in DIII substantially different than DI? Yes, DIII is more lenient on coaches winning, but do you really think the primary cause for DIII coaches getting fired is because they don't graduate enough, or is it because they don't win enough? Or, in the case of football, don't meet recruiting numbers.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 03:12:41 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 03:01:19 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 02:47:16 PM
I get that. I also get that the schools are all afraid someone else will find a loophole, so they vote for these rules on each other assuming they will never be the ones with violations. But as stakes continue to go up at the highest levels, and coaches get more and more desperate to win since they are hired to win, not graduate student athletes, the coaches and their boosters look harder and harder for the loopholes. Getting the Presidents to pass more and more restrictions that are difficult to enforce, all while their own underlings are trying to undermine them.

It's an asinine system, but it's what we have.

While I certainly see more pressure to win in DIII... the pressure is also on to graduate. Otherwise, DIII has no point to exist. While I can see some of your thoughts pertaining to DI... they don't as much down here. Thankfully.

Absolutely agree. But the rules tend to trickle down, don't they? I get they can all vote their own rules, but are the rules for paid work in DIII substantially different than DI? Yes, DIII is more lenient on coaches winning, but do you really think the primary cause for DIII coaches getting fired is because they don't graduate enough, or is it because they don't win enough? Or, in the case of football, don't meet recruiting numbers.

Yes the rules are different. Most athletes in Division III work. Yes, there are rules for any kind of booster for sure, but athletes in Division III can work because they aren't getting money to be athletes. DIII has it's own set of rules; DI has it's own set being they have scholarships.

And sure, DIII coaches get fired if they don't win at a lot of schools, but the biggest reason for coaches being fired or let go is graduation rates, retention, and recruiting numbers. Much different.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 30, 2017, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 28, 2017, 02:00:06 PM

Quote from: jknezek on June 21, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
Ouch. That's a tough way to run a program. Even temporarily.

They've done it before and were a playoff team during one of these years under Dean Paul.  Short-term, they'll be okay.  The players they have in the program and coming in will continue to be impressive.  For the other sports, there are plenty of schools within a 3 hour drive of Cincinnati, outside of MSJ, of course.  Short-term, they'll be okay. 

I know I'm a couple days late on this but I can't let this go without saying -- this was a different era in Division III. 2001 was a long time ago.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on June 30, 2017, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 03:12:41 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 03:01:19 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: jknezek on June 29, 2017, 02:47:16 PM
I get that. I also get that the schools are all afraid someone else will find a loophole, so they vote for these rules on each other assuming they will never be the ones with violations. But as stakes continue to go up at the highest levels, and coaches get more and more desperate to win since they are hired to win, not graduate student athletes, the coaches and their boosters look harder and harder for the loopholes. Getting the Presidents to pass more and more restrictions that are difficult to enforce, all while their own underlings are trying to undermine them.

It's an asinine system, but it's what we have.

While I certainly see more pressure to win in DIII... the pressure is also on to graduate. Otherwise, DIII has no point to exist. While I can see some of your thoughts pertaining to DI... they don't as much down here. Thankfully.

Absolutely agree. But the rules tend to trickle down, don't they? I get they can all vote their own rules, but are the rules for paid work in DIII substantially different than DI? Yes, DIII is more lenient on coaches winning, but do you really think the primary cause for DIII coaches getting fired is because they don't graduate enough, or is it because they don't win enough? Or, in the case of football, don't meet recruiting numbers.

Yes the rules are different. Most athletes in Division III work. Yes, there are rules for any kind of booster for sure, but athletes in Division III can work because they aren't getting money to be athletes. DIII has it's own set of rules; DI has it's own set being they have scholarships.

And sure, DIII coaches get fired if they don't win at a lot of schools, but the biggest reason for coaches being fired or let go is graduation rates, retention, and recruiting numbers. Much different.

Thanks. +K
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 03, 2017, 01:03:25 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 30, 2017, 12:45:51 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 28, 2017, 02:00:06 PM

Quote from: jknezek on June 21, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
Ouch. That's a tough way to run a program. Even temporarily.

They've done it before and were a playoff team during one of these years under Dean Paul.  Short-term, they'll be okay.  The players they have in the program and coming in will continue to be impressive.  For the other sports, there are plenty of schools within a 3 hour drive of Cincinnati, outside of MSJ, of course.  Short-term, they'll be okay. 

I know I'm a couple days late on this but I can't let this go without saying -- this was a different era in Division III. 2001 was a long time ago.

I get that, but what I'm saying is they'll be fine if this isn't a long-term run as an Independent Institution. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 03, 2017, 01:05:13 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2017, 01:49:38 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 28, 2017, 02:00:06 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 22, 2017, 08:23:11 PM
When a national title is taken away... by default a larger audience is aware no matter who is involved. When an entire season of wins (30+) is stripped away... a larger audience is going to be aware.

I understand your point, but a lot of violations by smaller or less successful programs occur all of the time in all three divisions of the NCAA (have you seen the fallout today from the Kalamazoo violations last year?). I would garner those are not as well known because the programs are not as successful. While certainly there was a name people knew in the mix (though, I think less care about the "family" name than most), the biggest reason the story was big was because one of the best programs this decade (well before Moss arrived) lost an undefeated season and title. What exactly did E&H lose that makes people remember it? That is the biggest difference in these cases.

Heck... bet many missed the York (N.Y.) men's basketball case recently.
the NCAA were receiving multiple "anonymous tips" about this player.  If the player's name was Smith, there wouldn't have been an investigation.

No and no.

There was one anonymous tip. It is revealed when you read the report. Just one tip with follow up information from the same individual.

Secondly, I can point to a lot of other investigations from the NCAA per players named "Smith" that garnered pretty severe penalties. You don't have to look very far. Baruch and York (N.Y.) in just the last year. Emory and Henry football a few years ago. Kalamazoo in the last few years (including the MIAA's penalties against them revealed in the last week or two).

Yes, the player was more famous and wasn't exactly kept secret by the NCAA report. Yes, the report seemed to point a lot of time on her and who she was and her background, but don't confuse for a minute that because of who she was the school was suddenly in hotter water than others. Yes, they lost a national championship and no one has had that happen in basketball... but then again, no team that has gone undefeated and won a national title has had an investigation reveal major penalties that warranted vacating games from that season, either. Just because it happened to TMC doesn't mean the NCAA (Division III itself to be clear) hasn't been harsh with other schools who didn't have famous players.

An even better example of this would be TCNJ and their women's basketball program not that long ago. Those ripple effects are still being felt and it ended up pointing to even bigger problems on the entire campus/department. The name on the back of the jersey just made the story juicier, it didn't change the outcome or the verdict (or penalty).

Thanks
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2017, 10:12:26 AM
BTW - I said TCNJ in my reference... I made a mistake. I was thinking of the wrong NJ school. I should have referenced Kean.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bombers798891 on July 03, 2017, 04:01:01 PM
Wanted to weigh in on the whole "you shouldn't punish everyone" claim. The issue there is that investigations (rightfully) take time. So if you have a Pete Carroll situation, and you say "Well, Carroll's at fault, can't punish the players" and Carroll's in the NFL, then no one gets punished for whatever infractions, so what's the deterrent?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bombers798891 on July 05, 2017, 10:03:19 AM
I kind of rushed that last post, so I wanted to expand on it. Has anyone seen the movie "Blue Chips"? There's  a speech that illustrates my point:

"Our football team has a linebacker, a tailback, a defensive tackle, two safeties and a quarterback, all recruited by friends of the program. They're all graduating this year. We're clean"

Punishments have to have something in them to be deterrents to future behavior. If, in the example the great JT Walsh has laid out above, a team can be "clean" as soon as the players are no longer on the team, that's not an incentive to not do it in the future, because really, there's no downside. Unless you really care about vacated victories and whatnot.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 10, 2017, 02:55:20 PM
TMC #19
CWRU #22
W&J  30th most points
Westminster 36th most points

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2017/preseason
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 10, 2017, 05:03:05 PM
What a great starting position to be in!

This year, with Cuda as a Senior, is the year that we CWRU fans have all been waiting for.  I sure hope that my enthusiasm doesn't "jinx" us at all.

We certainly got a piece of scheduling luck, insofar as two of the other three point getting teams in this poll from the PAC aren't on the schedule.

We definitely need to avoid complacency and avoid a late season slip up against either CMU or Westminster.  We'll probably have to go 10-0 to get a share of the PAC title and a bid to the post-season, but this really could be the year!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 10, 2017, 05:04:02 PM
On another note, DiSanto's new artificial turf is complete.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEZgEoSWsAEKXOc.jpg)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 12, 2017, 04:14:36 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 10, 2017, 05:04:02 PM
On another note, DiSanto's new artificial turf is complete.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEZgEoSWsAEKXOc.jpg)

Looking great.  Thanks for posting.



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 19, 2017, 02:44:09 PM
Quote from: E.115 on May 20, 2017, 03:53:17 AM
A few updates for Case Western Reserve I've seen:



2) Incoming Freshman class consists of 45 players from 14 different states (the largest class in recent memory) http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2016-17/releases/20170505gcni5c

This number is interesting as I seem to recall Debeljak's first year starting at CWRU he had approximately 45 total players.

They'll be joining 71 returning players.



4) Two of last year's captains who were injured/lost at the beginning of the season last year are returning (Cody Calhoun SS and Zech Medved TE).   http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/roster



http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/roster?view=list

The number of players returning from last season is down to 63, but still 110 are anticipated to report in August, the largest number that I can recall.

In addition to the 45 freshmen, Andrew Rossman, who pitched for four seasons for the Spartans is going to give football a try as a grad student.  Also, Jake Vent is a transfer from D2 St Joseph's (IN), which ceased operation at the end of this school year.

Others who return after missing all or most of last season include WR Luke DiFrancesco, who has the second highest number of receptions of active receivers and  OLB Zach Lyon, who started the first two games of his senior season last year before a season ending injury and has been granted a medical extra year of eligibility.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 26, 2017, 10:22:53 PM
Neat media feature on the 2009 Spartans and QB Dan Whalen:

Best individual football seasons the past 25 years: No. 5, Case Western Reserve QB Dan Whalen, 2009

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20170726/best-individual-football-seasons-the-past-25-years-no-5-case-western-reserve-qb-dan-whalen-2009
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 01, 2017, 01:09:53 PM
CWRU Preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170801i548o3

Kevin Burke is new RB coach. Also joining the staff are former JCU players Jake Schaefer  (QB) and Anthony Ciccione (S).  New WR coach is former NFL WR Micha Johnson.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 01, 2017, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 01, 2017, 01:09:53 PM
CWRU Preview:

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170801i548o3

Kevin Burke is new RB coach. Also joining the staff are former JCU players Jake Schaefer  (QB) and Anthony Ciccione (S).  New WR coach is former NFL WR Micha Johnson.

Those new Case Western Reserve coaching staff members come with some seemingly interesting sports bios:

From: http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170731p1faef

Burke gained notoriety across the Division III level as the quarterback for the University of Mount Union, where he was a three-time All-American and the first-ever two-time Gagliardi Trophy winner, awarded to the best D-III football player each year, weighing in athletics, academics and community service.  He led his team to the National Championship game each season as a starter, winning the title in 2012, and compiled an overall record of 43-2.  Since graduating from Mount Union in December 2015 with a major in Business Administration, he has served as an Assistant Coach at his alma mater for the last two seasons, while also playing in the Austrian Football League, where he recently led the Vienna Vikings to the league's championship, earning Most Valuable Player honors in the title game.

Cicione was a defensive back in college, starting his career and earning an All-Ohio Athletic Conference honor at Capital University, before finishing his career at John Carroll University.  He played in nine games his senior season for the team that reached the NCAA semifinals, recording an interception against Otterbein.  Cicione also worked as an assistant coach at St. Vincent St. Mary High School in Akron, Ohio from 2014-15.  He will graduate from John Carroll with a major in Sports Studies and Coaching & Recreation in December of 2017.

Johnson, a former NFL wide receiver for the Atlanta Falcons, Cincinatti Bengals, and San Francisco 49ers from 2007-09, most recently served as the Head Coach at Joy Christian High School in Glendale, Arizona from 2014-16, going undefeated and winning two state championships.  Prior to that, he was an Assistant Coach for quarterbacks, wide receivers and tight ends at NCAA D-III Grinnell College, helping to guide an offense that ranked in the top-10 in passing three years from 2010-13.  In addition to his time in the NFL, Johnson also played in the Canadian Football League as a wide receiver for the BC Lions.  He graduated from South Dakota State University as a Biology major in 2007, where he was an all-conference receiver.

Schaefer comes to Case Western Reserve after a stint as a player/coach and team captain of the Munich Cowboys of the German Football League.  While there, he assisted in weekly game planning, in addition to serving as the co-offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach of a U-19 football team.  Schaefer also worked at his alma mater, John Carroll University, as the assistant quarterbacks coach.  He was a four-year member of the football team at John Carroll from 2012-15, starting at quarterback for the Blue Streaks and serving as a team captain during his senior year.  Schaefer graduated from John Carroll in May 2017 with a degree in Forensic Psychology.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 02, 2017, 10:34:15 AM
Cincinnati?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 02, 2017, 06:17:49 PM
Preseason review by W&J coach Sirianni. Lots depends on how the new starting QB does, but he has a lot of support. Rowse is a third generation W&J student. His great uncle and I were fraternity brothers and great friends back in the day.


Jeff in Tennessee

http://gopresidents.com/news/2017/8/1/w-j-returns-wealth-of-experience-entering-2017-football-season.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 03, 2017, 02:33:15 AM
I'm surprised to see absolutely no talk on the PAC media day today from Latrobe, PA.  Here is the LINK: http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2017/8/1/headlines-pac-preseason-football-poll.aspx

As in past years, each team was highlighted.  I am only able to find the Case Western Reserve interview of Coach Greg Debeljak and QB Rob Cuda:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHwS5I7Omh8

Here is how the PAC voting turned out:

2017 PAC Football Preseason Poll (Predicted order of finish)
School (first-place votes)   Points   2016 Record (PAC)
1. Thomas More College (23)                 345   9-2 (8-0)
2. Washington & Jefferson College (6)         308   9-2 (6-2)
3. Case Western Reserve University (3)      302   9-1 (7-1)
4. Westminster College (1)                        271   8-3 (5-3)
5. Carnegie Mellon University                 255   7-4 (6-2)
6. Saint Vincent College                         189   5-5 (3-5)
7. Bethany College                                 139   3-7 (2-6)
8. Thiel College                                       115    4-6 (3-5)
9. Geneva College                                 101   3-7 (2-6)
10. Waynesburg University                        80   2-8 (2-6)
11. Grove City College                           73   0-10 (0-8)

2017 PAC Football Players to Watch

Bethany
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Dustin Hess   Sr.   TE   Upper St. Clair, Pa. | Upper St. Clair
Colin Johnston   So.   LB   Belle Vernon, Pa. | Belle Vernon
Chase Kinemond   Sr.   QB   Shadyside, Ohio | Shadyside
Khalid Pierce   Sr.   DE   Youngstown, Ohio | Ursuline
Raekwon Wright   So.   RB   Baltimore, Md. | Patterson 

Carnegie Mellon
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Sam Benger   Sr.   RB   Hingham, Mass. | Hingham
Stanley Bikulege   Sr.   LB   Greer, S.C. | Saint Joseph's Catholic
Kyle Brittain   Sr.   LB   Largo, Fla. | Clearwater Central Catholic
Drew Fitzmorris   Sr.   S   Omaha, Neb. | Westside
John Prather   Sr.   WR   Olney, Md. | Our Lady of Good Counsel 

Case Western Reserve
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Gage Blair   Sr.   C   Elyria, Ohio | St. Edward
Jacob Burke   Sr.   FB/P   Johnstown, Ohio | Northridge
Cameron Brown   Jr.   DE   Westlake, Ohio | Westlake
Rob Cuda   Sr.   QB   Bartlett, Ill. | South Elgin
Ryan DeMarinis   Sr.   G   Western Springs, Ill. | Westwood (Mass.)

Geneva
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Nick Fickes   Sr.   DL   Imler, Pa. | Claysburg-Kimmel
Jared Hogue   Sr.   DB   Freedom, Pa. | Freedom
Trewon Marshall   Jr.   RB   Leetsdale, Pa. | Quaker Valley
Joe Shively   Jr.   DB   Monaca, Pa. | Central VAlley
Bryan Stafford   Sr.   QB   Sharpsville, Pa. | Sharpsville 

Grove City
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Jacob Armbrecht   Sr.   DE   Streetsboro, Ohio | Streetsboro
Brett Laffoon   So.   QB   Irwin, Pa. | Penn-Trafford
Nick Ponikvar   So.   WR   Bridgeville, Pa. | South Fayette
Andrew Seifert   Sr.   S/LB   Kettering, Ohio | Archbishop Alter
Wesley Schools   So.   RB   Sparrowbush, N.Y. | Port Jervis 

Saint Vincent
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Damon Black Jr.   Sr.   WR   Lakeland, Fla. | Lakeland
Jean Cherilus   Sr.   LB   Sunrise, Fla. | South Plantation
Dalton Dietrich   Sr.   WR   Finleyville, Pa. | Thomas Jefferson
Jhanard Dorsett   Jr.   RB   Wellington, Fla. | Palm Beach Central
DJ Oceant-Kelly   Sr.    WR   Fort Myers, Fla. | Bishop Verot 

Thiel
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Nick Barca   Jr.   RB   Pittsburgh, Pa. | Baldwin
Jake Elk   Sr.   LB   Pittsburgh, Pa. | Baldwin
Ryan Rowland   Sr.   TE   Pickerington, Ohio | Pickerington
Joe Serratore   Sr.   SS   Pittsburgh, Pa. | South Park
Cody Wagner   Jr.   DL   Pittsburgh, Pa. | Brasher
 
Thomas More
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Daylin Garland II   Sr.   WR   Newport, Ky. | Newport
Cam Hansel   Jr.   DL   Covington, Ky. | Simon Kenton
Brenan Kuntz   Sr.   QB   Independence, Ky. | Simon Kenton
Johnny Lammers   Sr.   DB   Cincinnati, Ohio | Elder
Logan Winkler   Jr.   WR   Independence, Ky. | Simon Kenton 

Washington & Jefferson
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Tom Marra   Sr.   DL   Moon Township, Pa. | Our Lady of the Sacred Heart
Luke Merhaut   Sr.   DB   Gibsonia, Pa. | Pine-Richland
Nick Murgo   Sr.   LB   Warren, R.I. | Mount Hope
Alex Rowse   Sr.   QB   Beaver, Pa. | Beaver
Jesse Zubik   Sr.   WR   Sewickley, Pa. | Avonworth 

Waynesburg

Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown | High School
Brett Blacharczyk   Sr.   LB   Claysville, Pa. | McGuffey
Ben Ciero   Jr.   RB   Honor, Mich. | Ramstein (Germany)
Bobby Grishaber   So.   WR   Charleston, W.Va. | George Washington
Tristin Sandrosky   Sr.   LB   Dunbar, Pa. | Uniontown
Justin Willkow   Jr.   DB   Somerset, Pa. | Somerset 

Westminster
Name   Yr.   Pos.   Hometown |High School
CJ Armstrong   Sr.   LB   Lake Worth, Fla. | Park Vista Community
Jametrius Bentley   Sr.   WR   Lake Worth, Fla. | Park Vista Community
Todd Jeter   Sr.   CB   Monro eville, Pa. | Gateway
Dominique McKinley   Sr.   RB   Greensburg, Pa. | Greensburg Salem
Bobby Noble   Sr.   DE   Murrysville, Pa. | Greensburg Central Catholic
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 07, 2017, 03:22:34 AM
I don't know the connections behind this (logistically HOF game related at least), but the Dallas Cowboys were practicing at Case's DiSanto Field this past weekend:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CWRUFootball/status/893942699593781249

Ex Browns QB Bernie Kosar was also there tweeting about it:

https://mobile.twitter.com/BernieKosarQB/status/893892194729439234
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 08, 2017, 01:40:24 PM
So what is the outlook for W&J?  Judging from their list of players to watch, it seems like they'll be a strong defensive team early on... as the new QB gains experience. 

Its a QB-friendly offense, though.  I don't believe it will take long for new guy to get into a rhythm. 

Both TMC and W&J start their seasons off with playoff-caliber opponents. 

Thomas More has 78 FY players scheduled to be participants in 2017 and two transfers (RB and WR).  Looking closer at this class, there has been a shift to both northeast Ohio and "SEC Country" for the school in addition to strong recruiting in Cincinnati, Lexington and Indianapolis.  It will be interesting to see if the kids from these new regions buy into the program. 

Specifically; there are losses on the OL and at DL to replace.  The kids they have highlighted as replacements aren't AS BIG but are very talented players and aren't far off size-wise.  Thomas More returns Pitts and Zajac at RB and I have heard rumblings about a local kid transferring down to play RB.   Of course, the Saints return QB1 and he's within striking distance of the all-time passing yardage record.  It will be interesting to hear how the mix of new kids, transfers and returning letterman works and how long it takes them to come together will largely determine if they  return to the playoffs again, given they have Franklin, at W&J, at CMU and Westminster in their first 5 games. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 11, 2017, 01:34:57 AM
Additional local media coverage as a CWRU preview:

Case Western Reserve football No. 22 in preseason poll, set to scrimmage John Carroll Aug. 26


By: Mark Podolski

Optimism surrounding the Case Western Reserve University football team hasn't been this high since the Dan Whalen years.

That's the message from Coach Greg Debeljak as the Spartans are about a week away from the start of preseason camp.

The elimination of two-a-day practices across college football mean Case opens its season a bit earlier than usual. The Spartans start Aug. 11.

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20170803/case-western-reserve-football-no-22-in-preseason-poll-set-to-scrimmage-john-carroll-aug-26


Case Western Reserve: Kevin Burke, two-time Gagliardi Trophy winner, joins coaching staff

By: Mark Podolski (mpodolski@news-herald.com)

He's back in Northeast Ohio at his home in Westlake, and to fill the gap until his next football venture, Burke, 24, has a unique opportunity - playing in the offseason and coaching in the fall.

The former two-time national player of the year from Mount Union will be the running backs coach this season for Coach Greg Debeljak at Case Western Reserve University. The position will be part-time to allow Burke to continue playing.

"It's a great pick-up for us," said Debeljak. "We are excited."

Burke has one of the best resumes of any football player in the history of Ohio.

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20170809/case-western-reserve-kevin-burke-two-time-gagliardi-trophy-winner-joins-coaching-staff




Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 13, 2017, 05:14:42 AM
ADL70 or E115,

Any predictions on who the starting five O-Linemen will be?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 13, 2017, 12:13:19 PM
It was mentioned in the preview that Bachie, Blair, and DeMarinis will be back at their respective positions and that Merlau will move from T to G with Clontz joining the four returners at T.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 22, 2017, 10:54:33 PM
OK.  Just read Kickoff.

Case gets a good pre-season prognostication: 10-0 and a playoff berth.

Let's hope that we live up to the hype!

Last season ended with such a disappointment.  I'm hoping that we exact some revenge this year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 24, 2017, 01:02:18 PM
I'm very anxious to see how TMC starts the year. 

They are absolutely loaded at RB and WR but have to replace most of the OL.  The guys they have starting are capable but not tested, as of yet. 

I know the program is very hungry to win the PAC in their final year;  It probably helps they were not picked by the website to win the Championship.  It had to have been hard to pick against reigning three-time conference champ... so I'm eager to see what W&J has up their sleeve for the kids. 

I'd like to see CWRU make the tournament...but very much prefer them to be 10-0 and in Pool C, unless TMC has been eliminated.

Maybe the NCAA would pit PAC#1 vs. PAC#2 in Round 1?

** don't bother looking up information on a new RB, Coach.  He wanted to be closer to home.  ;)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 24, 2017, 05:42:15 PM
W & J article:


Quarterback battle takes center stage at W&J


http://www.observer-reporter.com/20170822/quarterback_battle_takes_center_stage_at_wj
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 25, 2017, 09:09:59 AM
Quote from: E.115 on August 24, 2017, 05:42:15 PM
W & J article:


Quarterback battle takes center stage at W&J


http://www.observer-reporter.com/20170822/quarterback_battle_takes_center_stage_at_wj

Interesting quote. 

I don't feel like the talent W&J has had at WR over the years has been talked about enough.  They've had great QBs in Washington PA, but they've also had great WR's who can make a move after a short catch...and also could make the contested catches on fades/takeoffs/9-routes. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 29, 2017, 10:35:26 PM
Any predictions for Week One?

I'm cautiously optimistic about CWRU v. Chicago, but I've learned not to be TOO optimistic.

What about the rest of the PAC teams?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 30, 2017, 12:34:41 PM
Interesting home game for TMC on Saturday. 

Their slogan for the year is "Leave No Doubt", which is fitting because they had Franklin on the ropes late in the 4th last year before a fumble a yard away from a TD totally flipped momentum. 

I'm optimistic but Franklin is scary good, offensively. 

Believe the OL, though smaller than last year, will be really good.  Thomas More is loaded at RB and has a 4 year starter at QB.  But, none of that matters if the OL doesn't work well together. 

Lots of IFs. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 30, 2017, 07:54:11 PM
Other notable Week 1 match-ups besides  #19 TMC vs Franklin (RV)

#23 SJ Fisher @ W&J (RV)  chance for Presidents to make a statement

#16 Witt @ Westminster (RV)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 02, 2017, 12:41:08 PM
Hey, cool to see Case Western Reserve on the main page of http://www.d3football.com/landing/index ! (as of Sept 2 @ 1 PM)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 02, 2017, 03:55:32 PM
Big win for the Presidents. Looks like the QB transition has been successful the running game is back on offense and the defense os solid.



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 02, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
Thomas More had 391 on the ground today.  They'll be a tough out. 

The one problem with their effort is the penalties.  They need to play flawless as they won't get any calls in Washington, PA in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 02, 2017, 04:07:49 PM
Case Western Reserve's Rob Cuda played at a high efficiency in the second half to defeat a pesky University of Chicago 34-14.

And from what I can tell, Westminster was only a few yards away from upsetting Wittenberg from their twitter page: https://twitter.com/WCtitansFB?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Can anyone comment?  Wittenberg held on to win 20-14. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 02, 2017, 04:43:31 PM
We won, but I'm not sure that we looked like a Top 25 team.

Our O-line needs work.  We didn't have much in the way of rushing yardage, and we gave up some sacks.

Special teams also need work.  We gave them an easy 7 points as a result of that.

That said, it's only our first game.  Presumably we know what to fix for the next game!

The defense was solid, holding Chicago to under 200 yards of total offense, forcing turnovers, and scoring on a pick-six.

Also, the Cuda to Phan connection was UNSTOPPABLE.  A program record FIFTEEN catches!!!  If this keeps up, Phan could lead DIII in receiving!!!

We have a bye week to sort everything out.  I'm guessing that Grove City will be a lesser opponent than Chicago.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 03, 2017, 10:15:08 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 02, 2017, 04:43:31 PM
We won, but I'm not sure that we looked like a Top 25 team....


...That said, it's only our first game.  Presumably we know what to fix for next week!...


...We have a bye week to sort everything out.

I was watching College Gameday yesterday and the hosts were talking about FSU and Alabama.  They were talking about the lack of preseason games in college football and how it affects the first game.  I think that is an issue for all levels of college football, not just D1.  I think that is what you were seeing.

I tuned in during the 2nd quarter and Case seemed a bit rusty.  The team got into a groove in the second half and I do think the slow start was due to first game issues.  My son was watching and texting furiously.  I wonder how he would have handled it if the game was in Cleveland.  I can just see him trying to run on the field...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2017, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on September 03, 2017, 10:15:08 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 02, 2017, 04:43:31 PM
We won, but I'm not sure that we looked like a Top 25 team....


...That said, it's only our first game.  Presumably we know what to fix for next week!...


...We have a bye week to sort everything out.

I was watching College Gameday yesterday and the hosts were talking about FSU and Alabama.  They were talking about the lack of preseason games in college football and how it affects the first game.  I think that is an issue for all levels of college football, not just D1.  I think that is what you were seeing.

I tuned in during the 2nd quarter and Case seemed a bit rusty.  The team got into a groove in the second half and I do think the slow start was due to first game issues.  My son was watching and texting furiously.  I wonder how he would have handled it if the game was in Cleveland.  I can just see him trying to run on the field...
Don't give the Big 5 conferences any ideas, or they will schedule pre-season games and jack-up the price of the season ticket package for a game at Bryant-Denny
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 03, 2017, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on September 03, 2017, 10:15:08 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 02, 2017, 04:43:31 PM
We won, but I'm not sure that we looked like a Top 25 team....


...That said, it's only our first game.  Presumably we know what to fix for next week!...


...We have a bye week to sort everything out.

I was watching College Gameday yesterday and the hosts were talking about FSU and Alabama.  They were talking about the lack of preseason games in college football and how it affects the first game.  I think that is an issue for all levels of college football, not just D1.  I think that is what you were seeing.

I tuned in during the 2nd quarter and Case seemed a bit rusty.  The team got into a groove in the second half and I do think the slow start was due to first game issues.  My son was watching and texting furiously.  I wonder how he would have handled it if the game was in Cleveland.  I can just see him trying to run on the field...

tell your son to get used to that feeling.  800 miles and 18 years removed and I still have that feeling. 

I like it though, not many people were fortunate to play college football and its a bond between both teammates and the football program. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 04, 2017, 10:57:12 PM
New Top 25 with three PAC teams ranked:

#18 TMC
#19 CWRU
#23 W & J

Also, very noteworthy:

- Carnegie Mellon had an impressive 28-7 win over Wash U. (a 2016 playoff team).  CMU seems to be the PAC team completely under the radar right now
- Westminster went toe-to-toe with #17 Witt, falling 20-14. 

Looks like we have another five team, top heavy conference this year. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 09, 2017, 03:20:54 PM
Good to see that the usual suspects have been active here.

I've been absentee from the boards thus far due to a combination of "busy at work" and "bought a house and moved to the suburbs" but I have been following the season thus far, and today got to see the Tartans in action live. 

Carnegie Mellon played a near-flawless first half today against an overmatched Rochester team.  Scored on all five first-half possessions plus a punt return en route to a 42-0 lead.  Sam Benger had a 92-yard touchdown run on CMU's first offensive snap and didn't slow down on his way to 208 first-half yards on just eight carries.  QB Alex Cline and WR John Prather again starred, while sophomore scatback Willie Richter had the impressive punt-return touchdown.  I left with the score 42-0 at halftime; according to the live stats, the Tartans took their foot off the gas, with the score currently sitting at 42-14 in the fourth quarter.

Will try to comment more on the other PAC teams' season thus far later this week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 10, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
With the new Top 25 , http://www.d3football.com/top25/2017/week2

Two thoughts:

1) I had no idea TMC suffered a defeat with the lack of chatter here.  What went down in Crestview Hills??
2) Even as a fan of the arch rival school, I gotta say Carnegie Mellon is completely flying under the radar.  They gotta be the best team remaining in the country who is not getting a single vote in the top 25. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2017, 09:40:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 10, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
With the new Top 25 , http://www.d3football.com/top25/2017/week2

Two thoughts:

1) I had no idea TMC suffered a defeat with the lack of chatter here.  What went down in Crestview Hills??
2) Even as a fan of the arch rival school, I gotta say Carnegie Mellon is completely flying under the radar.  They gotta be the best team remaining in the country who is not getting a single vote in the top 25.

I wasn't present for the game, but did watch.  It looked like Bridgewater showed up and TMC was caught in a week where they weren't completely focused.  Add to that the penalties; 7 personal foul/unsportsmanlike penalties and now an important game has turned into a playoff game.  Like last season, where they played 9 playoff games prior to the actual playoffs, this year they have 8. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on September 11, 2017, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 10, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
2) Even as a fan of the arch rival school, I gotta say Carnegie Mellon is completely flying under the radar.  They gotta be the best team remaining in the country who is not getting a single vote in the top 25.

Would nominate Denison as well, but your point is good.  CMU has some dudes and the on-the-radar PAC squads all go to Gesling this season.  Pretty good recipe there for the Tartans. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 11, 2017, 02:35:31 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 11, 2017, 09:40:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 10, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
With the new Top 25 , http://www.d3football.com/top25/2017/week2

Two thoughts:

1) I had no idea TMC suffered a defeat with the lack of chatter here.  What went down in Crestview Hills??
2) Even as a fan of the arch rival school, I gotta say Carnegie Mellon is completely flying under the radar.  They gotta be the best team remaining in the country who is not getting a single vote in the top 25.

I wasn't present for the game, but did watch.  It looked like Bridgewater showed up and TMC was caught in a week where they weren't completely focused.  Add to that the penalties; 7 personal foul/unsportsmanlike penalties and now an important game has turned into a playoff game.  Like last season, where they played 9 playoff games prior to the actual playoffs, this year they have 8.

This had trap game written all over it and TMC played right down to it. A low profile opponent who they beat the snot out of last year surrounded by a huge OOC revenge game and their hated conference rival. Textbook trap and TMC fell right into it and played awful. Still, the Saints should have been good enough to win. A very poor effort.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2017, 04:33:26 PM
Everybody around here wishes that the Saints hadn't fallen in the trap.
Both teams undefeated in the final PAC Conference meeting certainly is a stronger lead-in, not that TMC/W&J will be lacking for hype...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 12, 2017, 08:00:25 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 11, 2017, 04:33:26 PM
Everybody around here wishes that the Saints hadn't fallen in the trap.

Both teams undefeated in the final PAC Conference meeting certainly is a stronger lead-in, not that TMC/W&J will be lacking for hype...

Not only at W&J, but each of the next three opponents, all of whom harbor legitimate PAC title hopes (with varying odds of success, admittedly, but each of those three teams are good enough to think it could be their year).

Quote from: wally_wabash on September 11, 2017, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 10, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
2) Even as a fan of the arch rival school, I gotta say Carnegie Mellon is completely flying under the radar.  They gotta be the best team remaining in the country who is not getting a single vote in the top 25.

Would nominate Denison as well, but your point is good.  CMU has some dudes and the on-the-radar PAC squads all go to Gesling this season.  Pretty good recipe there for the Tartans. 

This is the PAC board, but as usual, I am in agreement.  Both Denison and CMU have a good look about them, and I am surprised to see zero votes tossed at either team, but those things have a way of correcting themselves over the course of the season.  Just win, baby.

We'll have more data on this in about three weeks, but here's how I would cluster the PAC teams today:

W&J (2-0, best win: 37-27 over St. John Fisher, 8-3 last year)
CMU (2-0, best win: 28-7 over Washington U, 2016 playoff team)
CWRU (1-0, best win: 34-14 over Chicago, 4-6 last year)
Westminster (1-1, best game: 20-14 loss vs. Wittenberg - 2016 playoff team)
Thomas More (1-1, docked due to upset loss, but clearly still has high ceiling given opening week W over perennial playoff contender Franklin)

Again, CWRU benefits from the unbalanced schedule and will not play W&J or Thomas More.  If they don't start 7-0, something has gone very wrong in Cleveland.  They will close against three quality opponents, including the finale at Gesling, which has some serious big-game potential if the Tartans stay upright the next few weeks.

Beyond that...ugh.

Geneva (1-1, best win: 34-13 over Bethany)
St. Vincent (1-1, best win: 25-22 over Thiel)
Waynesburg (0-2, losses 19-0 at Muskingum and 28-7 vs. Westminster)
Bethany (0-2, losses 35-13 at Ursinus and 34-13 vs. Geneva)
Thiel (0-2, losses 38-6 vs. Allegheny and 25-22 at St. Vincent)
Grove City (0-2, losses 42-31 at Juniata and 47-7 vs. W&J)

Geneva stands on top of this pile thanks to three-TD win over Bethany.  SVC is the only other owner of a win, but a three-pointer at home against a Thiel squad that lost 38-6 to Allegheny is not a particularly good sign.  That said, it's hard to rank anyone else until somebody wins a game.  Looks like we have another year with 5 high-quality teams and 6 also-rans (though it's impossible to say this without sounding snarky, I truly don't mean to disrespect the effort put forth by the also-rans; everyone that plays D3 football has a baseline level of respect from me; I say this merely to acknowledge that there is a huge gap between the top five and the rest of the league, to the point where I basically can't imagine anyone from the second list beating someone from the first list).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 12, 2017, 01:38:57 PM
As Tartan said, CWRU's opening 7 games should be a snap.  Case would have to truly underachieve not to win them.

I'm VERY worried about the last 3 games though.  CWRU didn't beat CMU last year, and CMU appears to be at least as good, possibly better, this year.

I was optimistic that CWRU had a favorable schedule at the start of the season, but it's not looking like such a cakewalk now.

The truth is, Case didn't look much like a Top 25 team in its opener.  I'm now less optimistic than I was about our prospects, but as always, I remain hopeful!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 15, 2017, 10:27:05 AM
A random CWRU student will have chance to kick 45 yard field goal for $25,000 at halftime Saturday night.  Given the categories that they exclude, I think the $25 grand is safe.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170914nl9f6z

Also note new website design.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on September 15, 2017, 11:01:57 AM
So they're looking for Flounder or Bluto to come kick?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 15, 2017, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 15, 2017, 10:27:05 AM
A random CWRU student will have chance to kick 45 yard field goal for $25,000 at halftime Saturday night.  Given the categories that they exclude, I think the $25 grand is safe.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170914nl9f6z

Also note new website design.
Quote from: Scots13 on September 15, 2017, 11:01:57 AM
So they're looking for Flounder or Bluto to come kick?

Yeah that money is safe...

Older grad students perhaps?  International students??
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 15, 2017, 01:31:46 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 15, 2017, 10:27:05 AM
A random CWRU student will have chance to kick 45 yard field goal for $25,000 at halftime Saturday night.  Given the categories that they exclude, I think the $25 grand is safe.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170914nl9f6z

Also note new website design.

Those exclusions are hilarious. I'm surprised they didn't add one about the ability to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Scots13 on September 15, 2017, 01:44:28 PM
The fine print isn't fine enough. Now it's a complete joke. Dangling 25G's in front of college students is trolling to the max.

The money is 99.999% safe.
"Current or former collegiate or junior collegiate football, soccer and rugby players and coaches who have played or coached at that level anywhere in the world within the past five years." Class of '12, RISE UP AND STRETCH THE HAMMIES!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 15, 2017, 02:44:55 PM
They ought to give that money away to anyone willing to go down there and take a chance.  Pick someone randomly. 

I believe they can afford it.   ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3MAFAN on September 15, 2017, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 15, 2017, 01:31:46 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 15, 2017, 10:27:05 AM
A random CWRU student will have chance to kick 45 yard field goal for $25,000 at halftime Saturday night.  Given the categories that they exclude, I think the $25 grand is safe.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170914nl9f6z

Also note new website design.

Those exclusions are hilarious. I'm surprised they didn't add one about the ability to walk and chew gum at the same time.

No problem with those rules, its more entertaining and worth while when the average Joe wins.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hasanova on September 15, 2017, 08:51:34 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 15, 2017, 10:27:05 AM
A random CWRU student will have chance to kick 45 yard field goal for $25,000 at halftime Saturday night.  Given the categories that they exclude, I think the $25 grand is safe.

http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20170914nl9f6z

Also note new website design.
They probably got an insurance company to underwrite it "just in case" ... sort of like the home improvement company in Cleveland did against the Indians winning 15 in a row.  They paid $75,000 premium and the insurance company had to pay off $1.8 million last week.  I hope someone makes it!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 16, 2017, 07:19:59 PM
3-0 TMC after an INT, the Prez defense held them out of the end zone. 

TMC needs a spark on offense.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 16, 2017, 08:18:26 PM
13-12, Thomas More leads at the half.  Two INTs by each QB and Zubik pass plays after TMC lost their starting FS to injury.  Offense is running the ball, well but the aerial game has mis-fired, big time.  Dropped balls, overthrows, um ... INTs.  W&J has played really well defensively against the pass and Zubik was big time in Q2. 

I'm really interested to see if TMC has grown up since last week.  We're about to find out.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 16, 2017, 08:22:20 PM
Watching the game as well. SaintsFan's summary is right on. Will be an interesting second half.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 16, 2017, 09:10:14 PM
31-13 - W&J

5 long TD passes since the injury to Zubik and TMC, passing game has been awful.  5-20 2 INTs

This is unreal
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 16, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
Rowse ro Zubik. Again and again. Sirianni said his new QB would be first team all PAC. He might be right. Haven't seen the stats, but I think Rowse had over 400 yards passing. Good thing, since the key running back did not play in the second half.

Sorry to se the W&J TMC PAC rivalry end. Best of luck to TMC in the future.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 17, 2017, 09:46:27 PM
Rowse 32-46-3 482 yards, 6 TD
Zubik 11 rec. 322 yards, 6 TD (yards & TD are both PAC records).
Scored on 6 of his last 8 catches.
TD passes were 29, 77, 16, 57, 69, 37 yards.

W&J has serious special teams work to get done....
Two PATs just flat missed. One blocked, one holder didn't catch the snap.
On punt receive in late 3rd quarter, leading by 18, a VERY late fair catch decision left receiver with only one available hand to catch the kick.  Muff, TMC recovers and gets re-energized.  Saints score twice to get back in game.

Defense allowed a bunch of broken tackles---certainly partial credit to Pitts/Kuntz but failure to wrap was also an issue.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2017, 03:18:43 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 17, 2017, 09:46:27 PM
Rowse 32-46-3 482 yards, 6 TD
Zubik 11 rec. 322 yards, 6 TD (yards & TD are both PAC records).
Scored on 6 of his last 8 catches.
TD passes were 29, 77, 16, 57, 69, 37 yards.

W&J has serious special teams work to get done....
Two PATs just flat missed. One blocked, one holder didn't catch the snap.
On punt receive in late 3rd quarter, leading by 18, a VERY late fair catch decision left receiver with only one available hand to catch the kick.  Muff, TMC recovers and gets re-energized.  Saints score twice to get back in game.

Defense allowed a bunch of broken tackles---certainly partial credit to Pitts/Kuntz but failure to wrap was also an issue.

Sirriani was a little fired up after the game, huh?  They saved bulletin board material from the aftermath of the 35-9 game in 2016. 

Good luck the rest of the way. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2017, 04:25:52 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2017, 03:18:43 PM
Sirriani was a little fired up after the game, huh?  They saved bulletin board material from the aftermath of the 35-9 game in 2016. 

Good luck the rest of the way.
Was pretty calm by the time I got to him.  Those special team notes are from me....
I'll hear about it next week!  LOL
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 19, 2017, 08:10:14 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2017, 04:25:52 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 18, 2017, 03:18:43 PM
Sirriani was a little fired up after the game, huh?  They saved bulletin board material from the aftermath of the 35-9 game in 2016. 

Good luck the rest of the way.
Was pretty calm by the time I got to him.  Those special team notes are from me....
I'll hear about it next week!  LOL

haha.. I bet you will.  They could be on his corkboard in his office!  Stay well -
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 19, 2017, 10:13:00 AM
I'm guessing it's been explained previously, but can someone explain how conference records work?  For example, I would think W&J and St Vincent would be 2-0 in their conference records, instead of 1-0. 

What determines what games count for conference records?

http://www.pacathletics.org/standings.aspx?path=football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 19, 2017, 02:21:00 PM
The first game this final season against a conference foe does not count toward conference standings, except for CWRU and CMU.  If you look at the schedules on d3football, those are not marked as conference games.  With next seasons full round-robin that will cease to be an issue
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 19, 2017, 03:46:43 PM
Are you sure there will be a full round robin in the PAC next year?

With TMC leaving, there will be 10 teams meaning a full conference round robin would be 9 games.

According to a CMU news release I saw (from February, 2016, link below) they will be playing Rochester and Claremont in 2018 and Claremont and MIT in 2019.So, that leaves 8 games available for PAC foes, one short of a full round robin.

Is the news release I saw still accurate? Perhaps with TMC leaving and a round robin leaving room for one non-conference game, CMU's plans have changed. Or, perhaps in my approaching dotage, I've missed something :)

I notice CWRU has 2018 and 2019 schedules posted, starting both years with Rochester, then 9 PAC games.

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2015-16/releases/20160205jmat5c
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:16:24 PM
I believe there have been changes to CMU's non-conference schedule agreements since the departure of TMC was announced.
On the other hand, I continue to wonder (often aloud) how CWRU & CMU can continue UAA agreements and PAC agreements.
Obviously, with a 9-game PAC slate to carry, CMU/CWRU will not be able to play the other two UAA members, let alone somebody else.

I know this:  W&J / CMU will open conference play each of the next two years
Sept. 15, 2018 at Cameron Stadium, Wash/Jeff
Sept. 21, 2019 at Gesling Stadium, CMU
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
....I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.
I just couldn't help myself.  I had to borrow this from the South Region Fan Poll thread....
I think this very question has been raised in THIS thread before.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 19, 2017, 10:44:37 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:16:24 PM
I believe there have been changes to CMU's non-conference schedule agreements since the departure of TMC was announced.
On the other hand, I continue to wonder (often aloud) how CWRU & CMU can continue UAA agreements and PAC agreements.
Obviously, with a 9-game PAC slate to carry, CMU/CWRU will not be able to play the other two UAA members, let alone somebody else.

I know this:  W&J / CMU will open conference play each of the next two years
Sept. 15, 2018 at Cameron Stadium, Wash/Jeff
Sept. 21, 2019 at Gesling Stadium, CMU

Wash U moving to the CCIW means that there is no full UAA schedule anymore. Wash U would only have one non-conference game to schedule. (Presume U of Chicago.)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 20, 2017, 08:26:16 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2017, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 19, 2017, 11:30:49 AM
....I don't think we know much about CWRU and with that schedule... uggh. How can they be in the PAC, a conference with so many quality teams, and have missed almost all of them? Talk about luck.
I just couldn't help myself.  I had to borrow this from the South Region Fan Poll thread....
I think this very question has been raised in THIS thread before.

I vaguely remember it coming up once..
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 23, 2017, 10:11:32 PM
Had the chance to watch CMU vs. Thomas More at Gesling today.  The Tartans got off to a fast start, taking advantage of a few turnovers and some big special teams plays (excellent punting from Tyler Kohman, and a big punt return from Willie Richter that set up a short TD run for Sam Benger) with a crisp performance from QB Alex Cline en route to a 21-3 halftime lead.  They extended the lead to 34-3 in the third quarter before TMC scored their first touchdown and a long pass (TMC quarterback was impressive all day, escaping the rush several times and giving CMU some fits).  The game was 37-10 with about three minutes to go when my folks and I left to, uh, beat the traffic.  TMC added a late touchdown for a 37-17 final.

Carnegie Mellon has been a little up and down thus far.  Sharp win at WashU; easy victory against a lackluster Rochester team; much tougher than expected win at Waynesburg; and then a strong effort at home today vs. Thomas More.  QB Cline is emerging as a solid playmaker; RB is a strength with Benger and Hubbard; WR Prather is tough to handle one-on-one, and Mansfield has made some big plays; Richter is a special-teams weapon as a return man; the defense has held up well thus far, especially the LB and DB corps; and P/K is a strength.  It's early and there are several tough games to play, but CMU is a very nice looking team at this point.

Many of the big conference matchups were front-loaded.  Thomas More is now behind the 8-ball with two conference losses on the board.  W&J and CMU have both passed their first major test; the CMU-W&J game looms on 10/7 as a major showdown that will affect the league title race.  Case Western and Westminster also both will be major contenders as well; need to look ahead and see when all the other cross matchups between these contenders occur.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 23, 2017, 10:48:22 PM
Given how well CMU has been playing............if CWRU can manage to go into the Academic Bowl undefeated.............then this year's Academic Bowl could be one of the greatest of all time!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 24, 2017, 02:37:40 AM
Two thoughts from today:

1)
Quote from: E.115 on September 10, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
Even as a fan of the arch rival school, I gotta say Carnegie Mellon is completely flying under the radar.  They gotta be the best team remaining in the country who is not getting a single vote in the top 25.

2) And I see no mention of this so far, but congrats to Grove City on the W!  "Brick by brick" holds true.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 24, 2017, 02:37:40 AM
Two thoughts from today:

1)
Quote from: E.115 on September 10, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
Even as a fan of the arch rival school, I gotta say Carnegie Mellon is completely flying under the radar.  They gotta be the best team remaining in the country who is not getting a single vote in the top 25.

2) And I see no mention of this so far, but congrats to Grove City on the W!  "Brick by brick" holds true.

Was going to post something about Grove City as well.  If memory serves me correctly, that is the first win for any of their seniors as collegiate players.  GCC was a proud, consistently middle-of-the-pack PAC program for many years (from 2003-2013 they hovered between 3-7 and 6-4) before the recent swoon.  Huge congratulations to the GCC team and especially their seniors for breaking the streak and getting into the W column.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 24, 2017, 05:34:28 PM
Carnegie Mellon got a vote!

New week 4 Top 25: http://www.d3football.com/top25/2017/week4
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 24, 2017, 06:27:28 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 24, 2017, 05:34:28 PM
Carnegie Mellon got a vote!

New week 4 Top 25: http://www.d3football.com/top25/2017/week4

This stuff falls into place - it's not worth sweating the polls too much.  There's generally that top tier of 8-10 really elite teams that are separated from the pack, then a big pile from 11-50 or so, most of whom can beat one others above/below them on a given day depending on matchups, strengths and weaknesses.  CMU, CWRU, W&J, and maybe Westminster are all in that group right now; Thomas More has the pedigree and talent but seems a little out of sorts right now.  We'll see how things go for the next few weeks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 24, 2017, 06:31:05 PM
Grove City 24, St. Vincent 14---I saw that coming, maybe not specifically vs. St. Vincent, but certainly soon.  In fact, I was at a Pitt Softball Doubleheader Saturday afternoon, talking with a friend, and I said just that.  She said she felt bad for Grove City (we've both known Andrew DiDonato's family for many years).  I told her, it's coming, it's coming very soon.  They are going to get the first win, and more will follow quickly thereafter.

Carnegie-Mellon 37, Thomas More 17--I thought CMU could/would win this, but not like this.  Never saw this coming.  TMC is going to be in a place they really don't know much about--out of the picture.  And it's a place that's no fun being. 

While I'm certainly going to miss the intensity of the W&J/TMC rivalry, my most vivid memory of it will not be any play or score but rather the grace, dignity, class and compassion shown by the entire TMC family when the Presidents played there just days after W&J's starting running back, Tim McNerney, was murdered.  I will never forget that day, nor the care shown to all by the folks at Thomas More.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 24, 2017, 11:34:39 PM
CMU deserves to be ranked and definitely deserves more than one vote.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 24, 2017, 11:43:10 PM
Voters will have plenty of chances to move CMU up if the Tartans play like a Top 25 team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2017, 08:02:50 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 24, 2017, 11:43:10 PM
Voters will have plenty of chances to move CMU up if the Tartans play like a Top 25 team.

This.  I think most are waiting to see a little more evidence, and CMU has three pretty good teams left on the schedule.

Its very apparent there is something wrong at TMC with the 2017 team and I believe folks have discounted wins against them. 

There are TWO 2-loss teams receiving votes - based up on their history.  While these two teams have a game still to play against the Top 5 team in their conference, I don't feel like they should be receiving those votes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2017, 08:03:46 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 24, 2017, 06:31:05 PM
While I'm certainly going to miss the intensity of the W&J/TMC rivalry, my most vivid memory of it will not be any play or score but rather the grace, dignity, class and compassion shown by the entire TMC family when the Presidents played there just days after W&J's starting running back, Tim McNerney, was murdered.  I will never forget that day, nor the care shown to all by the folks at Thomas More.

Never will forget that day.  I felt so badly for the W&J community. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2017, 09:14:53 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2017, 08:02:50 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 24, 2017, 11:43:10 PM
Voters will have plenty of chances to move CMU up if the Tartans play like a Top 25 team.

This.  I think most are waiting to see a little more evidence, and CMU has three pretty good teams left on the schedule.

Its very apparent there is something wrong at TMC with the 2017 team and I believe folks have discounted wins against them. 

There are TWO 2-loss teams receiving votes - based up on their history.  While these two teams have a game still to play against the Top 5 team in their conference, I don't feel like they should be receiving those votes.
John Carroll can run the table and be the Pool A bid from the OAC.

UW-Whitewater can run the table and be the Pool A bid from the WIAC.

They amassed 30 votes between the 2 of them. If one of them was the 25th pick on every ballot, not an implausible thought, and on two ballots, one of them picked a 24th and a 23rd, you have the 30 votes.

I think that CWRU is pulling in all of the love for a 2nd PresAC team in the Top 25.

The Pres AC is only average in strength as a conference in the playoffs,

(See question #9.)

http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs

so I think that they are getting lots of love.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 25, 2017, 10:41:30 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2017, 09:14:53 AM
They amassed 30 votes between the 2 of them. If one of them was the 25th pick on every ballot, not an implausible thought, and on two ballots, one of them picked a 24th and a 23rd, you have the 30 votes.

I know this isn't the case.  They aren't on everyone's ballot.

These are mutually exclusive:  I don't feel like the President's Athletic Conference is being shafted on votes. 

But I AM curious about those two teams still receiving votes; given how they've looked when I've watched their games in 2017. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2017, 12:37:18 PM
Not going to speak for JCU but I still have UWW 24th on my ballot because what they've done is lost narrow road games to No. 19 and No. 21 and thoroughly handled a team they should have handled. UWW will have a chance to play its way back into the Top 25 this week, or possibly play its way all the way out, so I am not at all concerned about the optics.

What UWW looks like is not like the UWW of old but I am trying not to let that cloud my judgment. They don't have to look like Justin Beaver's in the backfield in order to get onto my Top 25 ballot. If that were the case, I'd have a lot of blank spots.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 25, 2017, 11:38:52 PM
Rob Cuda gets a shout out...on whatever this website is:

https://www.cover2draft.com

Currently at the bottom on the left.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 26, 2017, 04:05:50 AM
Pat,

You know how in Division I-FBS, there are five conferences that are considered "Power" Conferences, i.e., the so called "P5."

Which Division III conferences would you consider to be "Power" conferences?

Is there a Division III equivalent of the P5?  If so, then which conferences would they be?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 26, 2017, 06:50:40 AM
If you buy Kickoff they rank all the conferences there. The P5 are a bit of a different animal with their monster tv contracts and their larger cost of living payments to players. That is a structural advantage. I'm not sure anything in D3 has that kind of built in advantage. D3 is more along the lines of some conferences simply have the stronger teams, bUT not because of some conference wide advantage, just because teams within the conference emphasize football differently, have different recruiting challenges, etc. In other words, the advantage isn't to a conference like it is with the P5, it's with schools that choose to make a (legal) advantage.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 26, 2017, 07:58:52 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 26, 2017, 04:05:50 AM
Pat,

You know how in Division I-FBS, there are five conferences that are considered "Power" Conferences, i.e., the so called "P5."

Which Division III conferences would you consider to be "Power" conferences?

Is there a Division III equivalent of the P5?  If so, then which conferences would they be?

Quote from: jknezek on September 26, 2017, 06:50:40 AM
If you buy Kickoff they rank all the conferences there. The P5 are a bit of a different animal with their monster tv contracts and their larger cost of living payments to players. That is a structural advantage. I'm not sure anything in D3 has that kind of built in advantage. D3 is more along the lines of some conferences simply have the stronger teams, bUT not because of some conference wide advantage, just because teams within the conference emphasize football differently, have different recruiting challenges, etc. In other words, the advantage isn't to a conference like it is with the P5, it's with schools that choose to make a (legal) advantage.

^Pretty much this.  The "P5" status in FBS has become a tacit acknowledgement that those schools are playing with a different deck of cards than the other schools in FBS (without actually creating an entire separate Division or breaking away from the NCAA entirely).  Some conferences in D3 stand out as tougher top-to-bottom, some are clearly less competitive, and then there's a great wide middle (including the PAC) comprised of conferences that typically have one or two playoff-caliber teams in a season, three or four more "decent" schools that are competitive but not quite there, and three or four bottom-feeders that are, in some cases, quite removed from the rest of their league.  At least 10 D3 conferences fit that description, maybe more.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 26, 2017, 11:41:05 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2017, 12:37:18 PM
Not going to speak for JCU but I still have UWW 24th on my ballot because what they've done is lost narrow road games to No. 19 and No. 21 and thoroughly handled a team they should have handled. UWW will have a chance to play its way back into the Top 25 this week, or possibly play its way all the way out, so I am not at all concerned about the optics.

What UWW looks like is not like the UWW of old but I am trying not to let that cloud my judgment. They don't have to look like Justin Beaver's in the backfield in order to get onto my Top 25 ballot. If that were the case, I'd have a lot of blank spots.

hmm...

I see..
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 27, 2017, 11:06:03 PM
Thiel at W&J game POSTPONED

GREENVILLE, Pa. (pacathletics.org) – The Presidents' Athletic Conference (PAC) football game between Thiel College and 15th-ranked Washington & Jefferson College, originally scheduled for this Saturday, has been tentatively rescheduled for Monday evening.

On Wednesday evening, Thiel's Department of Athletics announced it is canceling all practices and games through Sunday, October 1. This is in response to the investigation of a gastrointestinal illness found to affect select students. To ensure the well-being of its student community, Thiel officials took precautionary steps and began working with the Pennsylvania Department of Health and the Department of Agriculture on the morning of Wednesday, September 27 to identify a cause of the illness and take appropriate steps to address the situation.

With test results pending, Thiel heeded the advice of the Pa. Department of Health to avoid activities that involve close physical contact, in particular athletics competitions and intramurals. Thiel's Department of Athletics will be working with league members to reschedule conference tennis, women's volleyball and soccer events scheduled for this weekend.

The football game between the Tomcats (1-3, 1-1) and the Presidents (3-0, 1-0) will be played at Cameron Stadium in Washington, Pennsylvania as originally scheduled. Kickoff is also set for 7 p.m.

A final decision on the status of the rescheduled game is to be made at 2 p.m. Sunday.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 29, 2017, 04:41:42 PM
CWRU video highlights from last weekend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTuafKneiRw
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 30, 2017, 02:19:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2017, 12:37:18 PM
Not going to speak for JCU but I still have UWW 24th on my ballot because what they've done is lost narrow road games to No. 19 and No. 21 and thoroughly handled a team they should have handled. UWW will have a chance to play its way back into the Top 25 this week, or possibly play its way all the way out, so I am not at all concerned about the optics.

What UWW looks like is not like the UWW of old but I am trying not to let that cloud my judgment. They don't have to look like Justin Beaver's in the backfield in order to get onto my Top 25 ballot. If that were the case, I'd have a lot of blank spots.

I don't disagree with UWW being in the Top 25, but I wouldn't say they "thoroughly handled" WashU.  They were losing to start the 4th quarter.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 02, 2017, 01:27:48 PM

1) Congrats to Grove City College on win / PAC win #2.  They've gone streaking. 

2) Happy to see an impressive crowd at St. Vincent.  "We sold more tickets today (2,476) than for any other game in our (recent) history," said Jeff Zidek, an athletics department spokesman...  http://triblive.com/sports/college/district/12785052-74/st-vincent-football-loses-homecoming-game-to-no-18-case-western

3) Big numbers were put up individually:

Rob Cuda, QB
Case Western Reserve
(19 of 30), 357 yards, 4 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD

John Prather, WR
Carnegie Mellon
10 catches, 122 yards, four TDs
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 02, 2017, 06:25:30 PM
The PAC on.....Monday Night Football! Shame Dandy Don, Howard and The Giffer won't be in the booth at Cameron Stadium in WashPa - no offense to the WJPA team.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 02, 2017, 09:04:33 PM
Start of the 4th quarter. Que Dandy Don.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2017, 09:14:09 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 02, 2017, 09:04:33 PM
Start of the 4th quarter. Que Dandy Don.

Requiem in Pace
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2017, 07:47:29 AM
This PAC race is going to be interesting. 

I haven't watched enough of CWRU to make an intelligent comment on how I believe this will go. 

But, I'm sure we'll know more on Sunday after CMU/W&J. 

How much will W&J be affected by having the "game" they had on Monday night? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2017, 10:11:36 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2017, 07:47:29 AM
This PAC race is going to be interesting. 

I haven't watched enough of CWRU to make an intelligent comment on how I believe this will go. 

But, I'm sure we'll know more on Sunday after CMU/W&J. 

How much will W&J be affected by having the "game" they had on Monday night?

Had hoped to write somewhat of a "game preview" this week but it's been a really busy one at work.

I'll be at Gesling tomorrow, and expect a great game.  CMU appears to have their best team since ol' XTP was wearing plaid, while the Presidents have shown extremely well thus far in beating a pair of traditionally powerful programs (SJF and TMC) and thoroughly dispatching the two lesser opponents (worth noting that Grove City has won two games since then, indicating that they might be nudging their way into the middle of the PAC pack). 

Both teams have quality offenses with one major playmaker at WR headlining the attack.  W&J really does most of their damage in the air (1530 passing yards and 15 touchdowns versus 599 yards and 11 touchdowns on the ground), with Zubik the key guy at 603 yards and 10 TD's.  CMU's offense is a little more balanced at 988 passing yards and 14 touchdowns versus 864 rushing yards and 8 touchdowns, with Prather doing the most damage at 505 yards and 8 TD's.  Each team has second and third options that can do some damage, though.  Calling Sam Benger a second option seems crazy after the year he had last season, but clearly teams have been keying on him HARD this year (both from what I've seen as well as the numbers.  While the old cliche that big-time players make big-time plays in big games certainly applies, I suspect that each team will be prepared for the "main guys" so at least one key game-turning play may come from a secondary option that we might not see coming.

A potential wild card in the game is CMU return man Willie Richter.  He broke a long punt return in last year's game at Cameron that helped put CMU in the game at halftime.  He's broken one punt return for a TD this year and had several other long (30+ yard) runbacks.

I can't speak as intelligently about W&J, if only because I have not seen them play this season, but I expect a tremendous game - besides both teams being undefeated this year, I also point to last year's 55-52 overtime game as Exhibit A that this should be a great afternoon for D3 football...

Re: the Monday-night game for W&J...man, that's hard to say.  I hope it won't affect them too much from a fatigue standpoint - it looks like most of the starters were done after the first series or two in the third quarter.  Where it might have affected them is the preparation for this week...I'm not sure exactly how W&J sets up their normal practice week, but obviously it would be tough to have to delay preparations for the next opponent until Tuesday when you can normally start them on Sunday.

Best of luck to both teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 06, 2017, 10:39:18 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2017, 10:11:36 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 06, 2017, 07:47:29 AM
This PAC race is going to be interesting. 

I haven't watched enough of CWRU to make an intelligent comment on how I believe this will go. 

But, I'm sure we'll know more on Sunday after CMU/W&J. 

How much will W&J be affected by having the "game" they had on Monday night?


Had hoped to write somewhat of a "game preview" this week but it's been a really busy one at work.

I'll be at Gesling tomorrow, and expect a great game.  CMU appears to have their best team since ol' XTP was wearing plaid, while the Presidents have shown extremely well thus far in beating a pair of traditionally powerful programs (SJF and TMC) and thoroughly dispatching the two lesser opponents (worth noting that Grove City has won two games since then, indicating that they might be nudging their way into the middle of the PAC pack). 

Both teams have quality offenses with one major playmaker at WR headlining the attack.  W&J really does most of their damage in the air (1530 passing yards and 15 touchdowns versus 599 yards and 11 touchdowns on the ground), with Zubik the key guy at 603 yards and 10 TD's.  CMU's offense is a little more balanced at 988 passing yards and 14 touchdowns versus 864 rushing yards and 8 touchdowns, with Prather doing the most damage at 505 yards and 8 TD's.  Each team has second and third options that can do some damage, though.  Calling Sam Benger a second option seems crazy after the year he had last season, but clearly teams have been keying on him HARD this year (both from what I've seen as well as the numbers.  While the old cliche that big-time players make big-time plays in big games certainly applies, I suspect that each team will be prepared for the "main guys" so at least one key game-turning play may come from a secondary option that we might not see coming.

A potential wild card in the game is CMU return man Willie Richter.  He broke a long punt return in last year's game at Cameron that helped put CMU in the game at halftime.  He's broken one punt return for a TD this year and had several other long (30+ yard) runbacks.

I can't speak as intelligently about W&J, if only because I have not seen them play this season, but I expect a tremendous game - besides both teams being undefeated this year, I also point to last year's 55-52 overtime game as Exhibit A that this should be a great afternoon for D3 football...

Re: the Monday-night game for W&J...man, that's hard to say.  I hope it won't affect them too much from a fatigue standpoint - it looks like most of the starters were done after the first series or two in the third quarter.  Where it might have affected them is the preparation for this week...I'm not sure exactly how W&J sets up their normal practice week, but obviously it would be tough to have to delay preparations for the next opponent until Tuesday when you can normally start them on Sunday.

Best of luck to both teams.


All I know is that if W&J doesn't stop or contain the Tartans RB, its going to be a long day. Tremendous athlete.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2017, 10:43:16 AM
One of the differences between last year's CMU team and this year's team is the development of secondary weapons.  Benger has tortured W&J (and others) for the last two seasons, but this year he has been relatively quiet by his standards (a monster game against Rochester, but merely "good" production in the other games, although it's obvious that several teams have made it the priority to shut him down).  This year, though, we've seen big plays from Prather, Mansfield, Hubbard (who was out last week and may still be out, which would be a shame), Richter, and even Cline (the 56-yard touchdown run against Thomas More was admittedly surprising to this observer; Cline is not really a dynamic quick-twitch athlete, but  if given some open field he has the straight line speed to make you pay for leaving a lane).  That will be crucial against W&J, who has a big offense of their own and frankly is too good to get beaten by one guy that they know will be getting the ball a lot.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 07, 2017, 12:33:06 PM
Pre game with Gregg and Uriah on WJPA, watch game on the smart big screen compliments of CMU in Tennessee! Ain't technology grand?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 07, 2017, 04:20:17 PM
two evenly matched teams. Neither Zubic nor Benger were major factors. With about 4. minutes left  CMU was down by 2 touchdowns and almost pulled it out. CMU vs CWRU should be quite a game. W&J has Westminster left.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 10, 2017, 02:59:25 PM
I said this to Mark during the game and I still don't know why or how to change it:

Running the offense looked SIGNIFICANTLY easier for CMU than for W&J.

Perhaps, Mark will ask Coach Mike that for Saturday's pregame show.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 11, 2017, 10:48:19 AM
Sorry folks, wanted to post a game recap but it's been a busy couple of days.

Overall it was a competitive and (IMO) well-played game with a lot of potential tipping points, some of which went in each team's favor, making it one of the most thrilling live-game-watching experiences I've had recently, even in a loss.  I'll try to recap all the highlights - admittedly, I'm looking at the PBP to assist my memory:

1Q: First possession to W&J, three and out.  CMU receives the punt and, after a nice rush by Benger for a first down, also punts.  W&J puts together a nice drive - if memory serves me right, early on this drive Rowse nearly hit Zubik for a bomb that would have gone for a TD, but he couldn't quite track it down; they moved methodically downfield from there, though - that ended with a turnover on downs after an illegal shift took a would-be touchdown off the board.  CMU puts together an extended drive of their own that ended in an INT just inside the red zone.  W&J puts together a few running plays and connects on a deep pass this time to Hearst for a TD.  7-0, Presidents.

2Q: after the W&J touchdown, CMU puts together another extended drive that resulted in another killer finish - getting stuffed on the 1-yard line three straight times for a turnover on downs.  The CMU defense holds and forces a three-and-out, but here is unsung play #1: punting from his own endzone, W&J punter Ty Mitchell launched a 57-yard punt that flipped the field position and had CMU starting way back in their own territory again.  CMU picked up a few yards but had to punt...and CMU punter Tyler Kohman answered with a 62-yard punt of his own for a touchback.  W&J moved the ball to about midfield before a punt; CMU completes one big pass before yet another key play, Cline (hit as he throws!) got pick-sixed by W&J linebacker Nick Murgo and suddenly it's 14-0 Presidents.  CMU goes three-and-out and it's starting to look bleak, but fortunately ANOTHER killer punt from Kohman (57 yards) pinned W&J back around their own 10-yard line.  The W&J offense goes on the move, chipping their way up to about midfield and this time CMU's defense came up with the big play, a pick by linebacker Kyle Brittain that he returned about 35 yards to set up the Tartans at the W&J 30 with around a minute before halftime.  Cline finally connects with Prather over the top; W&J blocks the PAT and it's 14-6 at halftime.

3Q: Tartans ball first, a nice drive with a mix of run/pass action gets them to the 25 before stalling, missed FG (that hurt; after the missed PAT, it would have been nice to pick up a few points there).  W&J moves the ball themselves to about the CMU 30 before a sack pushed them back and forced a punt.  The Tartans (after a GUTSY AS HELL fake punt call on 4th and 1 from their own 29 that picked up a first down) got to midfield and had to punt; Kohman, after several TERRIFIC punts all game, shanked one and W&J got to start from their own 39.  Rowse found Hearst for another big pass play and then sparkplug RB E.J. Thompson scampered in.  20-6, Presidents, and again it's looking like the game might get out of reach.  Rory Hubbard came up with a big kickoff return, Cline followed with a big scramble on third down, and then hit two straight nice balls to Prather to pull within 20-13 as we turn into the 4th quarter.  Shaping up to be a classic finish.

4Q:  W&J moves to about midfleld (stop me if you've heard this before) but then a sack and holding penalty moved them back and forced a punt.  CMU takes over at their own 39, and Benger breaks for a nice run...but fumbles!  Absolute killer there.  In a game filled with "turning points" that felt like the biggest single one to me.  CMU has the ball, and with that run would have been inside striking distance of a game-tying touchdown.  Instead, W&J ball, and they came up with a ballsy drive here - 9 plays, 8 on the ground, for a touchdown to pull ahead 27-13.  Yet again, it's looking bleak, and even moreso after a three-and-out gives W&J the ball back.  Fortunately, Kohman boomed ANOTHER huge punt (55 yards) and the CMU defense came up with a quick-ish stop.

So now it's 27-13, CMU getting the ball back, 4:24 to play.  Generally, in this situation, I would say the game is not over yet, but it's almost on ice.  Hold on, folks, now the fun starts.  After two incompletions, Cline hits Greenwell for 39 yards, a few plays later W&J gets hit for a roughing the passer call, and then Cline hits Prather for another big gain before scrambling in from 6 yards out.  27-20 with 2:46 to play.  Do you kick deep or onside there?  Given the way W&J was running the ball, I figured it had to be an onside...it was...and CMU gets the recovery (by the kicker, no less).  Unfortunately, Cline gets sacked for a loss of 9 on first down before two straight incompletions.  4th and 19.  Conference title hopes on the line.  Here comes the wildest play of the game (so far, I have not been able to find the video online, otherwise I would post it here).  Cline drops the shotgun snap.  Benger manages to pick up the loose ball and flips it back* (I use the word "back" in the sense that I mean "he returned the ball to Cline"), and Cline runs around before lofting a deep ball CAUGHT by Tommy Mansfield at the W&J 15 yard line!  First down!  But wait, flag on the play.  The call was illegal forward pass, saying that Benger's flip to Cline was forward and therefore Cline was not legally allowed to throw a second forward pass (I'm being totally, 100% honest, no homer here: I did not see well enough to know whether Benger's flip to Cline was forward, lateral, or backward).  Bummer.  Game over, Presidents win.

A few strategic notes:

- CMU defense did a great job against the W&J passing game.  Zubik is frankly terrifying and CMU bottled him up all game; save for the one big pass to #4 (Hearst) the secondary did a great job, and Rowse is a fine QB with a good receiving corps.

- However, the W&J offensive line and RB's really showed up, and that was the killer.  In the third and fourth quarter the Presidents were gashing the CMU defense big-time with simple, well-executed running game.  That drive to make it a 27-13 lead was 9 plays; 8 of them on the ground.

- W&J defense did a great job bottling up Benger after he has tortured them for the past two years.  He had a quiet 18 carries for 96 yards, and didn't gash them for any huge plays as he's done in the past.

- Prather remains the toughest thing for anyone to handle about the CMU offense.  The Presidents had an answer for just about everything CMU did except him.

- W&J kicked away from Richter most of the day.  Smart choice.  He's an extremely dangerous return man and I thought this was a great move on their part.

- W&J felt like they were in control for most of the game.  The only time I really thought CMU was about to seize control was when we got the ball back down 20-13 and Benger broke into the open field on that first play...a feeling that lasted about three seconds.  I feel terrible for Sam - he's an incredible player and I am sure that is still eating him up even now.

Will try to shootaround the whole PAC later in the week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 12, 2017, 11:03:45 AM
I've watched the replay:

Cline dropped the snap at the 32.
Benger picked it up and gave ground inside 30.
As Benger is being tackled at the 27, he throws the ball forward, Cline catching it between the 27-28 yard lines (edited 27.5-28 yard line).
Cline then throws downfield but the linesman on the CMU side immediately throws the flag when Cline throws the ball.

It was two forward passes on same play.

APOLOGIES, CMU Sam Benger.
No disrespect intended.
Was delayed getting to look at the video from CMU and was in a hurry to post these notes to ExTartanPlayer's writeup.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on October 12, 2017, 11:36:40 AM
Impressive camera work that can easily discern the difference between the 27 and the 27.5/28 yard lines.  Most D3 game video is shot from one, maybe two cameras and almost always about 50 yards away from the action (when the action is closest to the camera).   

I think when a kid runs for 2,000 yards in a season we can get his name right.  Sam Benger has earned that.   :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bluestreak66 on October 12, 2017, 05:00:02 PM
Don't know if this has been discussed, but has there been anymore talk of where TMC will end up after this year? Any conference rumors?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 12, 2017, 05:00:28 PM
Wally,

I watched CMU's streaming broadcast and as you might expect from a technical school of CMU's repute, the picture was very clear (full screen on the 65 incher) and I've got pretty fast internet, so no buffering.

The camara person had a tough time following the action downfield, but based on what I saw if the angle was right (and it could have been since the action took place near the original line of scrimmage near mid field if I remember correctly, before the pass) it may well be clear what the relative position of Benger and Cline were to one another. Exact yards, who knows. But they should be able to verify if the call on the field was correct. In DIII it makes no difference aince there is no appeal to the booth, but I'm sure the CMU people would like closure. I couldn't tell, but I wasn't looking for that.

I lived in Cincinnati so know your alma mater well. One of only three all male colleges left, along with Morehouse and Hampden-Sydney. Great school.

Regards,

Jeff in East Tennessee, where it's tough to be a Vol fan this year!

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 12, 2017, 05:22:29 PM
The CMU announcer, when indicating that there was a flag, asked if it was a forward lateral, then stated that, from his vantage point, it was.
From my seat, I couldn't tell and didn't recognize it right away.
The video appears to show Benger inside his 27 going toward 25 when he flips it and it's caught outside the 27.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 12, 2017, 08:33:47 PM
ExTartan Player,

Great summary of the game. Thanks for posting!

Looks like we have a small core group here which is a shame. Other than 2 from CWRU, you from CMU, two from W&J and one from TMC,no other school is represented. Dont know if that is normal or not.

Jeff in East Tennessee

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 13, 2017, 01:24:28 PM
There are four CWRU followers, although Jeff posts very rarely of late.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2017, 10:11:58 PM
Case Western, Wash/Jeff, Westminster and Carnegie-Mellon all win today.
CWRU, W&J and Westminster all unbeaten, a game up on CMU and two ahead of Geneva.

CWRU is @Geneva, non-conference vs. Washington U, hosts Westminster, @CMU
W&J hosts Westminster, then @ St. Vincent, @ Geneva, vs. Waynesburg
Westminster is @W&J, hosts CMU, @CWRU, hosts Geneva
CMU is @Thiel, @Westminster, bye week, hosts CWRU.

W&J has cleared all but one serious hurdle to the AQ, hosting Westminster this week.
Westminster, like W&J, needs no help, just win!  Toughest stretch of season starts Saturday for Titans--WJ, CMU, CWRU.
CMU has to root for Westminster win over W&J.
CWRU needs the same or the Spartans have to run the table and get a Pool C.


Thomas More has rebounded to middle of the pack at 2-3, likely to finish at 5-3 with St. Vincent, Bethany and Thiel left on schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2017, 10:11:58 PM
Thomas More has rebounded to middle of the pack at 2-3, likely to finish at 5-3 with St. Vincent, Bethany and Thiel left on schedule.

With the way they are playing, it's too bad the schedule wasn't backloaded.  Replacing the OL and LB corps was a bigger deal than I thought it would be.  Thems the breaks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 15, 2017, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 13, 2017, 01:24:28 PM
There are four CWRU followers, although Jeff posts very rarely of late.

I'm more of a lurker than a contributor around here these days, but I do still follow the games online and make it to a game or two each year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
Scafe to retire, Stellman named Head Coach and Norwell is Associate HC. 

Great move for Saints. 

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20171015x3bqby
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 16, 2017, 12:49:01 PM
Heard rumblings about this happening, so I'm not surprised.

Best wishes to Coach Scafe and the Saints, wherever they're heading....(that's still a great unknown).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2017, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 16, 2017, 12:49:01 PM
Heard rumblings about this happening, so I'm not surprised.

Best wishes to Coach Scafe and the Saints, wherever they're heading....(that's still a great unknown).

I think you know which route they are taking if nothing has been announced, yet...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 16, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
Scafe to retire, Stellman named Head Coach and Norwell is Associate HC. 

Great move for Saints. 

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20171015x3bqby

Almost wonder if this was always the plan, but Stellman was just considered a little too green when Hilvert left in 2015, so the plan was always to have Scafe as a bridge for two years while Stellman served as HC-in-waiting?

In any case, good luck to the Saints moving forward.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 17, 2017, 12:40:29 AM
Even Cleveland's newspaper, the Plain Dealer, covered Scafe's upcoming retirement:

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2017/10/regis_scafe_will_retire_as_thomas_more.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2017, 05:01:57 PM
W&J 34 Westminster 33 (OT).

W&J came from behind.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 21, 2017, 05:38:22 PM
And the homecoming crowd went wild, I assume since I am in Seattle with grandkids (and their parents). West. started hot, Prez did not. Stats were as close as the score. Zubic had one catch for 14 yards. Fortunately there are plenty of other capable receivers to pick up the slack and double covering Zubic has a downside. Freshman back EJ Thompson has emerged to be a force the last few weeks. Rowse did not finish. Hope he's not hurt.

Westminister scored in OT and went for two and the win. Pass was incomplete. Good call?

Presidents control their destiny with three games against teams with losing records while CMU, CWRU and Westminster all have tough games left.

Westminister is and will be a force to be reckoned with.

Jeff

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2017, 06:49:55 PM
Jeff,

Fitting that today was the 30th reunion of the 1987 W&J team that LIVED this way week after week....WOW.

That was NUTS.
W&J trailed 14-0, 21-7 in first half, 21-13 at the break.
Scored to open third, went for 2 and failed.
Titans held to field goals the rest of the way and W&J drives 83 yards and scores, Thompson pounds in for 2.
Presidents miss short field goal late that would have won it.
Adams throws 12-yard TD to Hearst, Josh Hnat (senior) kicks his first PAT.
Titans convert fourth & 5, then fourth & 1, and score.  Pretty quick decision to go for two.
Play was a designed roll right throwback left but TE was covered.
Columbo kept dropping (pressured) and rolling right, threw from about the 18 yard line while rolling and Zach Walker knocked it down.

W&J:  at St. Vincent, at Geneva, Waynesburg
West:  CMU, @ CaseWestern, Geneva
CWRU: at Geneva (tonight), Wash U, Westminster, at CMU
CMU:  at Thiel (tonight), at Westminster, off, CaseWestern
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 21, 2017, 07:13:10 PM
Bob, do you know  why Alex Rowse left the game?

Jeff
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2017, 07:42:40 PM
In OT, scrambled left and heading for boundary.
Got chipped low right at the line (clean) and came down awkwardly.
Came back onto field, dropped down to knee and had to come out (walked off without limp under own power).
Didn't return.

No word post-game on what/how serious.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 21, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Thanks, Bob.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Desertraider on October 21, 2017, 10:52:33 PM
Can someone clarify the statement below from the TMC President in the piece on Regis Scafe:

"When Athletic Director Terry Connor hired Coach Scafe we had two goals, we wanted Regis to give us at least three years to hone the two coaches we had on staff who we thought can be the future of Saints Football and maintain our excellence as the winningest program in Division III," explained President David A. Armstrong, J.D.

Curious statement since they are not in fact the winningest program in DIII. In terms of wins it is Mount Union, and winning percentage is Mary Hardin Baylor.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2017, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2017, 06:49:55 PM
W&J:  at St. Vincent, at Geneva, Waynesburg
West:  CMU, @ CaseWestern, Geneva
CWRU: at Geneva (tonight), Wash U, Westminster, at CMU
CMU:  at Thiel (tonight), at Westminster, off, CaseWestern

Watched some of the CMU-Thiel game tonight on the "second screen" (laptop) with PSU-Michigan on the TV.  Tartans took a little while to get going but exploded for 28 in the second quarter en route to a 42-10 win.  Benger ran for 204 yards.  Thiel RB did put forth a big effort in the loss.  He was impressive.

W&J cleared the last major hurdle today vs. Westminster, and it certainly appears that the coast is now clear for the Presidents to take the league title and the playoff berth.  As discussed elsewhere, it is likely that W&J wins the tiebreaker in the event of a "2 undefeated terams" scenario with CWRU.

CWRU is 7-0 and finally about to be tested a little bit.  Even WashU is a deceptively good 2-5 team; the five losses were competitive outings against 7-1 CMU, 4-3-but-we-all-know-who-they-are UW-Whitewater, 7-0 likely IIAC champion Wartburg, 6-1 possible CCIW champion North Central, and 5-2 ODAC contender Washington & Lee.  If CWRU gets through WashU, then they'll have the big league games with Westminster and CMU.

CMU has a nice 7-1 record on the scorecard with a pair of great games remaining against 5-2 Westminster and 7-0 CWRU.  W&J's win over Westminster likely means that a share of the conference title is out of the question, but they still have a shot to play their way into the Pool C conversation.  Of course, CWRU and Westminster will have something to say about that.

Westminster is clearly an excellent team at 5-2 with extremely close, heartbreaking losses to Wittenberg and W&J.  They'll be very dangerous to both CWRU and CMU in the next few weeks.

Everybody's "ideal" scenario from here out for the rosiest playoff prospects:

W&J wants to go unbeaten, win the league title, and see Westminster and CMU both beat Case.  Not because they need the help to win the league outright - they do not - but because they've beaten Westminster and CMU, wins for both of them vs. Case would make W&J's SoS number as strong as possible.  I think they would also want CMU to beat Westminster, only because that would put CMU at 9-1 and likely guarantee they would appear in the regional rankings, giving W&J another chip to play in the seeding debates (SoS numbers and "results against regionally ranked opponents" are the key chips to have in your pocket).  Westminster, fine team though they are, will have a difficult time appearing in the regional rankings at 8-2.

CWRU wants to go unbeaten and (well, they want W&J to lose, but that isn't going to happen)...in any case, they're probably in at 10-0 through Pool C no matter what, because it's difficult to see the committee leaving an undefeated team out of the playoffs in the current system (yes, it used to happen 15-20 years ago; things are much different today than they were back then).

CMU wants to finish 9-1 and probably wants CWRU to beat Westminster.  In this hypothetical, they would have wins over both teams, but for their Pool C resume they would want/need a regionally ranked win and "9-1 Case" has a far better chance of being ranked than "7-3 Westminster" would.  We've seen over the past few years that 9-1 teams with middling SoS numbers and 0-1 records vs. RRO's are not always treated kindly by Pool C; throw in a regionally-ranked win and that picture looks better.  One would also have to assume that 9-1 CMU would be ranked ahead of 9-1 CWRU thanks to the h2h result.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 21, 2017, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: desertraider on October 21, 2017, 10:52:33 PM
Can someone clarify the statement below from the TMC President in the piece on Regis Scafe:

"When Athletic Director Terry Connor hired Coach Scafe we had two goals, we wanted Regis to give us at least three years to hone the two coaches we had on staff who we thought can be the future of Saints Football and maintain our excellence as the winningest program in Division III," explained President David A. Armstrong, J.D.

Curious statement since they are not in fact the winningest program in DIII. In terms of wins it is Mount Union, and winning percentage is Mary Hardin Baylor.

By percentage.  He forgot the last part.

MHB just passed them but they still use it.

EDIT:  there's a qualifier in number of games in order to be on that list
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 23, 2017, 10:07:09 PM
Interesting that TMC President Armstrong and not AD Conner was the person to announce all this.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 24, 2017, 07:45:51 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 23, 2017, 10:07:09 PM
Interesting that TMC President Armstrong and not AD Conner was the person to announce all this.

Scafe hired Armstrong for his first coaching job; they know each other very well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 24, 2017, 12:06:32 PM
Ah! Makes sense. Thanks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 26, 2017, 12:35:29 AM
Great talent to have at Case Western Reserve — Kevin Burke.

http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2017/kevin-burke-rising-coaching-star
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 27, 2017, 11:12:36 AM
Cleveland newspaper highlighting senior safety captain Cody Calhoun:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/10/case_western_reserves_cody_cal.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 28, 2017, 08:11:10 AM
W&J senior quarterback Alex Rowse is out today with shoulder injury suffered late in last week's ot win over Westminster.  Heir apparent sophmore qb Jacob Adams will get the start. He has been effective in mop up duty, but today we get a look into the future.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 28, 2017, 12:19:55 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 28, 2017, 08:11:10 AM
W&J senior quarterback Alex Rowse is out today with shoulder injury suffered late in last week's ot win over Westminster.  Heir apparent sophmore qb Jacob Adams will get the start. He has been effective in mop up duty, but today we get a look into the future.

Should be fine against St. Vincent, yeah?  Westminster and Thomas More really clobbered them and W&J beat them both. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 28, 2017, 05:06:32 PM
A rainy day in PAC  land and Latrobe was no exception where W&J prevailed 21-3.

W&J controlled time of posession by a little over 7 minutes and outgained SVC 349-150. Jacob Adams went 15 of 22 for 172  yards in his first start. The ground game netted 177 yards to yield a balanced offense, which is quite unusual for the Presidents.

Next week takes W&J to Beaver Falls.

I'll be following the CMU Westminister game this evening. Hope the weather is not a big factor.

Jeff in Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 28, 2017, 07:11:03 PM
UT UK on the big screen CMU Westminster on the ipad.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 28, 2017, 09:34:12 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 28, 2017, 07:11:03 PM
UT UK on the big screen CMU Westminster on the ipad.

Ha, I was doing the same.  D1 games on the real TV, Tartans on the iPhone.

Tartans had a rough night.  Kudos to Westminster - after the heartbreaker vs. W&J they could have done the "Bummer, we have nothing left to play for" but they showed up tonight and really controlled the action from start to finish.  But for a moment in the third quarter, when CMU scored on the first possession of the second half, Westminster was completely in control.

Also wanted to post a tip of the cap to Grove City for picking up their third win of the season.  On the heels of three 0-fer seasons, this has gotta feel pretty sweet for the Wolverines.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 29, 2017, 02:05:45 AM
CWRU had better bring its "A" game next week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 29, 2017, 09:14:49 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 29, 2017, 02:05:45 AM
CWRU had better bring its "A" game next week.

We'll find out a lot about Case this week.  I'm looking forward to seeing them try to finish it off for 10-0.  It's an accomplishment no matter what the schedule is.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2017, 10:39:22 PM
Down the stretch we go:

W&J 8-0, 6-0
CWRU 8-0, 6-0
Westm 6-2, 5-1
CMU 7-2, 5-2

11/4 W&J @ Geneva, Westm @ CWRU
11/11 Wayn @ W&J, CWRU @ CMU, Westm at Geneva

AQ twist.....

If W&J and CWRU end 10-0, the AQ could still come down to a coin flip.
W&J beat TMC who CWRU didn't play.
CWRU beat Grove who W&J didn't play in conference.
W&J & CWRU opponents conference winning percentage would be identical.
And the PAC tie-breaker list ends there....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2017, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2017, 10:39:22 PM
Down the stretch we go:

W&J 8-0, 6-0
CWRU 8-0, 6-0
Westm 6-2, 5-1
CMU 7-2, 5-2

11/4 W&J @ Geneva, Westm @ CWRU
11/11 Wayn @ W&J, CWRU @ CMU, Westm at Geneva

AQ twist.....

If W&J and CWRU end 10-0, the AQ could still come down to a coin flip.
W&J beat TMC who CWRU didn't play.
CWRU beat Grove who W&J didn't play in conference.
W&J & CWRU opponents conference winning percentage would be identical.
And the PAC tie-breaker list ends there....

Cheese and Crackers
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 31, 2017, 03:21:16 PM
CWRU needs GCC to win out, but that seems likely.

In the Podcast Pat seemed to suggest that the tie-breaker favored CWRU, not sure why.  I agree that each one seems to be a push.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 31, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
Not to mention, I see now 7-2 Carnegie Mellon has two weeks to heal up and prepare for rival Case Western Reserve coming to town on 11/11. 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2017, 03:51:14 PM
Not sure how tie-breakers favor either at this point.

If W&J and CWRU run the table:
both would be 10-0, 8-0 in PAC.

Tie-breakers:
1.  Head-to-head  Didn't play
2.  Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not in the tie
They will have beaten all of the same PAC teams except:
W&J didn't play Grove City (currently 3-5, with games vs. Bethany, Thiel).
CWRU didn't play Thomas More (currently 4-5, with game this week vs. Thiel).
If both win out, or both lose once, those two will have identical records.
3.  conference winning percentage of teams your beat in 8 PAC games
if #2 plays out, winning percentage of teams they beat would be indentical.
4. Overall record...both 10-0
5.  Record vs. common non-league opponent(s).  none.

And it ends there.  League office told me that if all criteria are deadlocked, coin flip.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2017, 03:15:43 PM
Regional rankings are out:
http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2017/first-regional-ranking
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 03, 2017, 11:07:38 PM
Cool article on Case Western Reserve's biomedical engineering LB :  http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20171102/case-westerns-justin-mcmahon-of-mentor-wants-to-help-solve-footballs-concussion-problem
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 04, 2017, 03:31:44 PM
Congrats to Coach Greg Debeljak on his 100th career head coaching win!

Case moves to 9-0. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 04, 2017, 03:39:07 PM
Case definitely made a statement today, thumping Westminster 41-10 in a game that was never really close.

Given that W&J and Wittenberg struggled to beat the same team, I hope that this will improve CWRU's ranking.

My only fear is that we might have a letdown next week that would cost us a conference title and NCAA bid.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 04, 2017, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 04, 2017, 03:39:07 PM
Case definitely made a statement today, thumping Westminster 41-10 in a game that was never really close.

Given that W&J and Wittenberg struggled to beat the same team, I hope that this will improve CWRU's ranking.

My only fear is that we might have a letdown next week that would cost us a conference title and NCAA bid.

Hey, don't turn a positive into a negative so quickly. :)  But I agree, no time to enjoy this victory.  Focus needs to shift immediately to preparing for next Saturday.

In rivalry games, you can always throw records out the window...for this Cleveland-Pittsburgh Academic Bowl showdown.

To add to the mix...the game is at Pittsburgh this year, and CMU has a bye week this week (i.e. two weeks to prepare for CWRU).

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2017, 04:52:30 PM
Statement win for CWRU indeed.  Impressive.

Another notable happening relevant to the league title picture - Bethany "upset" Grove City today, ensuring that Thomas More will finish with a better league record than GCC, tipping tiebreaker #3 in favor of W&J if both teams finish unbeaten.  So it appears that wins from each of the favorites next week would give W&J the Pool A and leave CWRU in Pool C.  One would hope that the big win this weekend will boost their regional ranking, and their SOS number will come up from it's initially god-awful state over the next two weeks thanks to the games with Westminster and CMU.  It still won't be good, but it will be "within range" of the other teams such that their 10-0 record will likely nudge them ahead of most 9-1 teams, since the SOS gap will be smaller.

One other thing that's probably not getting enough attention - while W&J will win the Pool A bid, after this week's result it's hard for me to figure how the RAC can justify W&J that many spots ahead of CWRU.  They've played very similar schedules overall and CWRU has a favorable common-opponent result against the best team that both have played (Westminster) with a 41-10 win versus a one-pointer in overtime.  If CWRU handles CMU in similar fashion next week, one would assume that CWRU should be equal/ahead of W&J in regional rankings at that time (and if they aren't, IMO, it would be an oversight and unfair to CWRU).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2017, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2017, 04:52:30 PM
Statement win for CWRU indeed.  Impressive.

Another notable happening relevant to the league title picture - Bethany "upset" Grove City today, ensuring that Thomas More will finish with a better league record than GCC, tipping tiebreaker #3 in favor of W&J if both teams finish unbeaten.  So it appears that wins from each of the favorites next week would give W&J the Pool A and leave CWRU in Pool C.  One would hope that the big win this weekend will boost their regional ranking, and their SOS number will come up from it's initially god-awful state over the next two weeks thanks to the games with Westminster and CMU.  It still won't be good, but it will be "within range" of the other teams such that their 10-0 record will likely nudge them ahead of most 9-1 teams, since the SOS gap will be smaller.

One other thing that's probably not getting enough attention - while W&J will win the Pool A bid, after this week's result it's hard for me to figure how the RAC can justify W&J that many spots ahead of CWRU.  They've played very similar schedules overall and CWRU has a favorable common-opponent result against the best team that both have played (Westminster) with a 41-10 win versus a one-pointer in overtime.  If CWRU handles CMU in similar fashion next week, one would assume that CWRU should be equal/ahead of W&J in regional rankings at that time (and if they aren't, IMO, it would be an oversight and unfair to CWRU).

Agreed.  IMO, Case is fairly clearly the best team in the PAC this season.  It is a disgrace that the PAC yet again didn't match Case and W&J up h-t-h.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 05, 2017, 10:18:48 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2017, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 04, 2017, 04:52:30 PM
Statement win for CWRU indeed.  Impressive.

Another notable happening relevant to the league title picture - Bethany "upset" Grove City today, ensuring that Thomas More will finish with a better league record than GCC, tipping tiebreaker #3 in favor of W&J if both teams finish unbeaten.  So it appears that wins from each of the favorites next week would give W&J the Pool A and leave CWRU in Pool C.  One would hope that the big win this weekend will boost their regional ranking, and their SOS number will come up from it's initially god-awful state over the next two weeks thanks to the games with Westminster and CMU.  It still won't be good, but it will be "within range" of the other teams such that their 10-0 record will likely nudge them ahead of most 9-1 teams, since the SOS gap will be smaller.

One other thing that's probably not getting enough attention - while W&J will win the Pool A bid, after this week's result it's hard for me to figure how the RAC can justify W&J that many spots ahead of CWRU.  They've played very similar schedules overall and CWRU has a favorable common-opponent result against the best team that both have played (Westminster) with a 41-10 win versus a one-pointer in overtime.  If CWRU handles CMU in similar fashion next week, one would assume that CWRU should be equal/ahead of W&J in regional rankings at that time (and if they aren't, IMO, it would be an oversight and unfair to CWRU).

Agreed.  IMO, Case is fairly clearly the best team in the PAC this season.  It is a disgrace that the PAC yet again didn't match Case and W&J up h-t-h.

"Disgrace" probably isn't quite the right word.  An "unfortunate coincidence of a schedule made a couple years ago" is more accurate.

As you WELL should know, these schedules are made more than a year in advance. In a league that has too many teams for a full round-robin, you will always run a slight risk of two top contenders not playing one another, and the presumptive title contenders may change within a scheduling cycle. Case and CMU admittedly got a few special concessions as they transitioned into the PAC to sustain some of their UAA games (whether that was a good idea or reasonable request is a separate discussion). But it's not as simple as the PAC league office simply snapping their fingers before the season and saying "You know what? We need to make sure CWRU plays W&J this year."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on November 05, 2017, 11:12:24 AM
No. But if they both get in I'd be real happy to see them matched in the first round.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2017, 12:32:51 PM
Adam Turer, Snap Judgements:  "By winning their first game of the season, the Bisons should expect a thank-you note from Washington and Jefferson."

Why should Bethany expect a thank you note from W&J?  The only thing the Bisons' win over Grove City did for W&J was provide clarity, not qualification.
If the Presidents and/or Spartans win next Saturday, they are going to the playoffs.  No doubt about it.
And that was true whether Bethany or Grove City won yesterday.

The Bethany win simply clarified the path both W&J and CWRU will take to the 2017 NCAA Division III National Playoffs.
If both win, W&J will be the AQ, CWRU will be a Pool C.
If Case-Western wins and W&J loses, the Spartans will be the AQ, and W&J will be awake all night, possibly without hope.
IF W&J wins and Case-Western loses, the Presidents will be the AQ, and CWRU could be without hope, lying awake all night for a second straight year.

W&J doesn't owe a thank you note to anyone.

jknezek:  "if they both get in I'd be real happy to see them matched in the first round."

I would too, if that's what the qualifying and bracketing criteria show.  But there'll be a pretty good number of 10-0 teams all within a 200-mile drive of each other in this neck of the woods.  You won't be lacking for match-ups in which whoever loses will be tasting the bitters of defeat for the first time this year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
Per the regional rankings of last week, this mean Case Western Reserve gets a RRO win finally on its resume, correct?

South Region
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0
2. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 +
3. Berry 9-0
4. Washington & Jefferson 8-0
5. Johns Hopkins 7-1
6. Centre 7-1
7. Case Western Reserve 8-0
8. Franklin & Marshall 7-1
9. Huntingdon 6-1 +
10. Westminster (Pa.) 6-2


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2017, 01:22:18 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
Per the regional rankings of last week, this mean Case Western Reserve gets a RRO win finally on its resume, correct?

South Region
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0                          Pool B
2. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 +                           Pool C #1
3. Berry 9-0                                               SAA Pool A
4. Washington & Jefferson 8-0                      Pres AC Pool A
5. Johns Hopkins 7-1                                   Centennial Pool A
6. Centre 7-1
7. Case Western Reserve 8-0               10-0 CWRU Pool C #5
8. Franklin & Marshall 7-1
9. Huntingdon 6-1 +                                       USAC Pool A
10. Westminster (Pa.) 6-2

My projections to the right...

I think that Westminster falls off the list.
And we need to see if the RAC (Regional Advisory Committee) jumps CWRU over Centre
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 05, 2017, 02:13:23 PM
Well, Thomas More fell short of winning the PAC football  championship in it's final year, but both M&W soccer teams and volleyball won the conference.

I'm sure there will be more to come for TMC the rest of this academic year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2017, 03:57:03 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2017, 01:22:18 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
Per the regional rankings of last week, this mean Case Western Reserve gets a RRO win finally on its resume, correct?

South Region
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0                          Pool B
2. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 +                           Pool C #1
3. Berry 9-0                                               SAA Pool A
4. Washington & Jefferson 8-0                      Pres AC Pool A
5. Johns Hopkins 7-1                                   Centennial Pool A
6. Centre 7-1
7. Case Western Reserve 8-0               10-0 CWRU Pool C #5
8. Franklin & Marshall 7-1
9. Huntingdon 6-1 +                                       USAC Pool A
10. Westminster (Pa.) 6-2

My projections to the right...

I think that Westminster falls off the list.
And we need to see if the RAC (Regional Advisory Committee) jumps CWRU over Centre

Thanks for the work on the projected outline.

So an "RRO win" only counts if the team is still regionally ranked at the end of the season, and not if they were ranked when they were knocked off?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2017, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2017, 03:57:03 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2017, 01:22:18 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 05, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
Per the regional rankings of last week, this mean Case Western Reserve gets a RRO win finally on its resume, correct?

South Region
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0                          Pool B
2. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 +                           Pool C #1
3. Berry 9-0                                               SAA Pool A
4. Washington & Jefferson 8-0                      Pres AC Pool A
5. Johns Hopkins 7-1                                   Centennial Pool A
6. Centre 7-1
7. Case Western Reserve 8-0               10-0 CWRU Pool C #5
8. Franklin & Marshall 7-1
9. Huntingdon 6-1 +                                       USAC Pool A
10. Westminster (Pa.) 6-2

My projections to the right...

I think that Westminster falls off the list.
And we need to see if the RAC (Regional Advisory Committee) jumps CWRU over Centre

Thanks for the work on the projected outline.

So an "RRO win" only counts if the team is still regionally ranked at the end of the season, and not if they were ranked when they were knocked off?
Correct, no longer "once ranked, always ranked".
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2017, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 05, 2017, 02:13:23 PM
Well, Thomas More fell short of winning the PAC football  championship in it's final year, but both M&W soccer teams and volleyball won the conference.

I'm sure there will be more to come for TMC the rest of this academic year.

Its too bad.  But, onward... from what I hear the schedule is truly a national schedule next year. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on November 06, 2017, 10:11:33 AM

HSCTigerfan

Last post on this subject.
Wow, you certainly are an angry person. I probably shouldn't have responded to your 1st post. Oh well. I'll sit back, relax and watch our QB take us into the playoffs. And with a good shot at a national championship (it would be number 13)! But, I don't have to explain that too you.
Good luck to the Tigers, yours, not Trinity Texas, Wittenberg, or any of the other so-called Tigers!
Take care.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2017, 11:02:15 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2017, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 05, 2017, 02:13:23 PM
Well, Thomas More fell short of winning the PAC football  championship in it's final year, but both M&W soccer teams and volleyball won the conference.

I'm sure there will be more to come for TMC the rest of this academic year.

Its too bad.  But, onward... from what I hear the schedule is truly a national schedule next year.
And going mano-a-mano in Pool B.


I have thought about Pool B next year and,

The ASC goes to Pool A. 8 teams plus McMurry should be re-classified in 2018.
WashU goes to the CCIW.
Finlandia goes to the MIAA.

Of hand, I do not remember the years for Ferrum and Southern Virginia to move to the ODAC but they are full members joining member conferences and does not change the numerator in the Ratio.

26 conferences with 228 members  =  8.76


NEWMAC  8
Independents 1.

Thanks to Thomas More, there should be 1 Pool B bid next year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HSCTiger fan on November 06, 2017, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: MUC57 on November 06, 2017, 10:11:33 AM

HSCTigerfan

Last post on this subject.
Wow, you certainly are an angry person. I probably shouldn't have responded to your 1st post. Oh well. I'll sit back, relax and watch our QB take us into the playoffs. And with a good shot at a national championship (it would be number 13)! But, I don't have to explain that too you.
Good luck to the Tigers, yours, not Trinity Texas, Wittenberg, or any of the other so-called Tigers!
Take care.

Why did you leave the ODAC board?  I'm angry?  There's a lot of assumption in that statement. But I agree that you're right in that you probably shouldn't have responded.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 06, 2017, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2017, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 05, 2017, 02:13:23 PM
Well, Thomas More fell short of winning the PAC football  championship in it's final year, but both M&W soccer teams and volleyball won the conference.

I'm sure there will be more to come for TMC the rest of this academic year.

Its too bad.  But, onward... from what I hear the schedule is truly a national schedule next year.

SaintsFan,

I'm assuming that means that TMC will be an independant for at least next year, and I'm also assuming that applys to all sports. As I'm sure you know, that is a hard row to hoe. Good luck to the Saints. They were very hospitable to the W&J people when we went to a game there a couple of years ago ( Coughlin was QB but the game was over early). We lived in Cincinnati until 2004 and enjoyed the games W&J played against Hanover and MSJ. I suspect those days are over for a while. With 9 conference games that doesn't leave a lot of room, and I have no idea how W&J will use that game (warm-up or true test) but I'm sure Sirianni has a plan. Saturday he has a chance to become the winningest coach in W&J history, surpassing the coach who hired him, John Luckhardt.

Jeff in East Tennessee, where we are waiting to hear who will be the next coach for the
Volunteers.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 07, 2017, 07:58:12 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 06, 2017, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2017, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 05, 2017, 02:13:23 PM
Well, Thomas More fell short of winning the PAC football  championship in it's final year, but both M&W soccer teams and volleyball won the conference.

I'm sure there will be more to come for TMC the rest of this academic year.

Its too bad.  But, onward... from what I hear the schedule is truly a national schedule next year.

SaintsFan,

I'm assuming that means that TMC will be an independant for at least next year, and I'm also assuming that applys to all sports. As I'm sure you know, that is a hard row to hoe. Good luck to the Saints. They were very hospitable to the W&J people when we went to a game there a couple of years ago ( Coughlin was QB but the game was over early). We lived in Cincinnati until 2004 and enjoyed the games W&J played against Hanover and MSJ. I suspect those days are over for a while. With 9 conference games that doesn't leave a lot of room, and I have no idea how W&J will use that game (warm-up or true test) but I'm sure Sirianni has a plan. Saturday he has a chance to become the winningest coach in W&J history, surpassing the coach who hired him, John Luckhardt.

Jeff in East Tennessee, where we are waiting to hear who will be the next coach for the
Volunteers.

It sounds like they will be, barring something last minute coming up (but even that, would take a year to implement..I would think).   This, despite guessing going that an announcement was imminent in October.  TMC was independent for 9 seasons following the AMC Conference ceasing operations following the 1995 season.  I'm sure they have a plan but as you've mentioned, it will be tough for all sports to be independent.  There are now more sports in the athletic program than there were for those earlier Independent days. 

I would guess MSJ and Hanover will remain off the W&J schedule - I don't feel like MSJ would even entertain putting a program like W&J on the schedule.  Its crazy to think about what MSJ has become (there are some behind the scenes issues in Delhi for the school and program) after how good they had become from 2002-2006.  They were getting all of the Top D3 kids out of Cincinnati to play in Delhi and even built a new stadium.  Then, TMC hired the guy behind all the recruiting.  They really should've named Jim Hilvert the HC and asked their coach to stay out of his way:  this would have continued their trajectory upward.   This all seems like 20/20, looking back but believe me there was talk about this among alums and even the coaches. 

The latest:  Surprisingly, they didn't return any calls from interested and (very) qualified HC candidates in mid-March and hired from within. 

TL/DR:  No decision imminent at TMC and MSJ will never be on the W&J schedule because of "things".
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
Given the full 9-game PAC schedule that's coming for the next few years, do not expect Hanover or MSJ back on W&J's schedule.

The Panthers have been above .500 only twice since 2004.
The Lions have only two seasons of better than 7-3 since 2007.

If SOS needs improved, it has to happen in the ONE non-conference game that PAC teams will have available to schedule.

One of the strengths of the AQ system is that teams can go play somebody.
W&J has tried that with St. John Fisher (this year & next), and I expect they'll be in the market to open with a playoff contender in 2019 and beyond.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 07, 2017, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
One of the strengths of the AQ system is that teams can go play somebody.
W&J has tried that with St. John Fisher (this year & next), and I expect they'll be in the market to open with a playoff contender in 2019 and beyond.

One of the follies of the AQ system is that you "think" you can go play somebody good and then they pipe in a 2-7 season and your SOS still stinks.  Outside of about zeroing in on 10-15 teams in the entire division, trying to leverage your SOS through scheduling is pointless.  It's a total crapshoot. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2017, 09:37:42 AM
wally, that's why I wrote "tried".....

This is the first year since 2002 that SJF won't have at least 7 wins.  It is a crap shoot, but worth the shot.

And, given W&J's record in 2011, 2012, 2013, the Presidents (with 3-4 losses) didn't provide much SOS help to StJF or DelVal in those years.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on November 07, 2017, 09:54:39 AM
Definitely not a comment about W&J specifically, Bob.  More of a general eyeroll toward the (amazingly large) crowd that thinks a team can just "go schedule better" and magically have a top 20 SOS.  It's an impossible thing to predict. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2017, 12:12:36 PM
At the top level of D-3, I view the out-of-conference game as a chance to impact your post-season seeding.

I view Linfield's games with HSU and UMHB over the year's as a way to get a win over a RRO and possibly "earn" a second round and third round home game in the playoffs.

You can say the same for scheduling a WIAC contender.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
Latest regional rankings are out:
http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2017/second-regional-ranking
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 08, 2017, 09:38:30 PM
Alex Rowse not on depth chart for the third week in a row. Shouldn't be a problem this week, but assuming W&J gets by Waynesburg, would be nice to have him back for the playoffs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 11, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
Two great articles... one in CMU and one on CWRU:

http://observer.case.edu/alternate-perspective-its-not-just-another-game-for-CMU/


http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/11/case_western_reserve_football.html

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wesleydad on November 11, 2017, 05:13:59 PM
Well that was some crazy stuff at the end of regulation in the CMU/CWRU game.  CMU QB not taking the knee right away and causes a lineman to shove CWRU player who came in and touched the QB.  15 yard penalty and clock stops.  CMU can no longer run out clock and has to punt.  Punt blocked and returned for a TD and CWRU seems to have survived.  But no, celebration penalty puts ball on 20 for kickoff and coach calls for pooch kick and CMU gets it at the 40.  Move ball close enough and kick game tying field goal and they go overtime.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 11, 2017, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 11, 2017, 05:13:59 PM
Well that was some crazy stuff at the end of regulation in the CMU/CWRU game.  CMU QB not taking the knee right away and causes a lineman to shove CWRU player who came in and touched the QB.  15 yard penalty and clock stops.  CMU can no longer run out clock and has to punt.  Punt blocked and returned for a TD and CWRU seems to have survived.  But no, celebration penalty puts ball on 20 for kickoff and coach calls for pooch kick and CMU gets it at the 40.  Move ball close enough and kick game tying field goal and they go overtime.

That was a senior backup QB who didn't take the knee correctly.  The game was over.

Hopefully we have a PAC Title game next week
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
For a supposed "Academic Bowl" the last 40 seconds included some pretty stupid plays:

1)  CMU is kneeling down to win the game.  2nd down, 40 seconds to play, QB delays kneeling, then taps down. CWRU player taps him on the shoulder.
CMU senior starting left tackle doesn't like the tap and shoves CWRU player.  FLAG, Unsportsmanlike and STOP the CLOCK.  CMU kneels again, CWRU uses time out, CMU punts, blocked, return for TD.

2)  CWRU gets so overwhelmed with punt block TD, they excessively celebrate, 15 yard penalty on kickoff.

3)  Apparently CWRU coaches call for SHORT SQUIB kick, which CMU recovers, moves ball, kicks game tying field goal, sending game to OT.

4)  Trailing by 7 in OT, CMU facing 3rd & 5, 4th & 4, gets no blocks for Benger who is stopped and the game is over.

LOTS of STUPIDITY in the Academic Bowl in those final minutes....YIKES.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 11, 2017, 09:54:57 PM
QuoteFor a supposed "Academic Bowl" the last 40 seconds included some pretty stupid plays:

Bob. put it much better than I did on the NWC in-game board.
I was trying to watch LINFIELD and the CWR-CMU game at the same time as well as posting about both games.

Amazing for a game that had so much at stake. Ah heck, it would have been amazing as a first game of the year.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 12, 2017, 02:19:19 AM
Wow.  Based on what I'm reading, that may be the craziest ending EVER!!!  Wish I'd seen it!

OK, someone who saw it tell me the truth.  Was the personal foul call at the end fair?  If it was, then I have to wonder how that guy won't be persona non grata among his CMU teammates the entire off-season for having effectively cost them a victory.  Were the CWRU player's own actions preceding the shove unsportsmanlike in their own right, and deserving of their own penalty?  Be honest.

Of course, if it wasn't a fair call, then it's almost as if CWRU needed a ref's call to win.  The victory somehow wouldn't seem quite as special in that case.

I also have to wonder what Coach Debs was thinking when he called that pooch kick from the 20, assuming, of course, that that was a deliberate call and not a botched kickoff.  Can't understand that one!

In the end, I guess I should be thankful that CWRU won...........SOMEHOW!!!

Let's hope that CWRU shows that it deserves a playoff spot (assuming, of course, that CWRU gets one) by playing better next week and winning in the first round.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 12, 2017, 09:49:07 AM
Cuda lefr the game for a while after being tackled and did not appear very sharp when he returned, although he did get the job done. Any info on his condition?

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2017, 09:59:07 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 12, 2017, 02:19:19 AM
OK, someone who saw it tell me the truth.  Was the personal foul call at the end fair?  If it was, then I have to wonder how that guy won't be persona non grata among his CMU teammates the entire off-season for having effectively cost them a victory.  Were the CWRU player's own actions preceding the show unsportsmanlike in their own right, and deserving of their own penalty?  Be honest.
I saw it on the very nicely done CMU video stream.
CMU QB took his time, backed up, stood there several seconds, then knelt down. CWRU player touch him, not violent nor vicious, split-second after whistle.  CMU player then shoved CWRU player.  Definitely a foul.

If I was the R, that's exactly the way I would have ruled it, just like it was.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 12, 2017, 12:57:15 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 12, 2017, 09:49:07 AM
Cuda lefr the game for a while after being tackled and did not appear very sharp when he returned, although he did get the job done. Any info on his condition?

I was going to ask the same thing.  I watched the entire game except for missing about 3 plays.  Of course one of them was when he got hurt, so I didn't even see what happened.

Our offense looked lost for the series he was out.  When he came back, he was hobbling, immobile, and wildly inaccurate.  It really is a miracle we pulled that game out and I hope he is fully recovered by next week (assuming we make the playoffs).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: AO on November 12, 2017, 02:20:26 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
For a supposed "Academic Bowl" the last 40 seconds included some pretty stupid plays:

1)  CMU is kneeling down to win the game.  2nd down, 40 seconds to play, QB delays kneeling, then taps down. CWRU player taps him on the shoulder.
CMU senior starting left tackle doesn't like the tap and shoves CWRU player.  FLAG, Unsportsmanlike and STOP the CLOCK.  CMU kneels again, CWRU uses time out, CMU punts, blocked, return for TD.

2)  CWRU gets so overwhelmed with punt block TD, they excessively celebrate, 15 yard penalty on kickoff.

3)  Apparently CWRU coaches call for SHORT SQUIB kick, which CMU recovers, moves ball, kicks game tying field goal, sending game to OT.

4)  Trailing by 7 in OT, CMU facing 3rd & 5, 4th & 4, gets no blocks for Benger who is stopped and the game is over.

LOTS of STUPIDITY in the Academic Bowl in those final minutes....YIKES.
Probably not a math major if he delayed kneeling with the clock under 40.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 12, 2017, 05:39:36 PM
Case gets Illinois Wesleyan and W&J gets Johns Hopkins.  I was hoping they'd face off against each other, but at least Case got in.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 12, 2017, 06:05:36 PM
Me too.  And I was hoping Case would get a home game, but I am happy to see them in the tournament.  Congrats to W & J on the home game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 12, 2017, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 12, 2017, 06:05:36 PM
Me too.  And I was hoping Case would get a home game, but I am happy to see them in the tournament.  Congrats to W & J on the home game.

Hopefully Cuda is healthy.  They are going to need him at full strength against IWU, who has a legit top 5 defense. 

Rooting hard for W&J against JHU.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 12, 2017, 06:34:41 PM
Extremely tough bracket.

On the road against #11 IWU to start.

Then likely Mount Union, should we pull off the upset in Round One.

UGH!!!

GO SPARTANS!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: bluestreak66 on November 12, 2017, 06:48:46 PM
Just wanted to say congratulations to coach Scafe on closing out an amazing career! He was a great coach and great man to play under! I think he set the ground work for john carroll's recent success, so I'm sure he did the same down at thomas more! :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 12, 2017, 08:00:46 PM
SaintsFan,


Thanks for the support. May go to the game, but a long drive from Knoxville, then home and back to Cleveland for Thanksgiving. May watch the game this week, then see where they play if they beat JHU and go.

Jeff on East Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 12, 2017, 08:52:19 PM
Good luck to CWRU (or as we knew it back in the day CIT and WRU).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 13, 2017, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 12, 2017, 08:52:19 PM
Good luck to CWRU (or as we knew it back in the day CIT and WRU).

Ah...the good old years of the Rough Riders and Red Cats.  :D

Like W & J: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_%26_Jefferson_Presidents_football
CWRU also has some deep history because of those CIT and WRU years:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Western_Reserve_Spartans_football

So I know this predates both of us... ;D  But looking through old season lists, I see W & J first played WRU in 1896 and CIT in 1901.  Thanks for the comment!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 13, 2017, 07:10:42 AM
E.115,


Interesting article about long time Case coach Ray Ride.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_A._Ride

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 13, 2017, 09:25:27 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 13, 2017, 07:10:42 AM
E.115,

Interesting article about long time Case coach Ray Ride.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_A._Ride

Interesting connections.  I think there are a few additional W & J coaching connections throughout CWRU history. 


Now, onward to 2017 playoffs!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 14, 2017, 03:08:48 AM
One still has to wonder why the name "Rough Cats" wasn't chosen to unite the mascots: CIT Rough Riders (named after Ride), and the Western Reserve Red Cats.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 14, 2017, 08:15:47 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 14, 2017, 03:08:48 AM
One still has to wonder why the name "Rough Cats" wasn't chosen to unite the mascots: CIT Rough Riders (named after Ride), and the Western Reserve Red Cats.

Or the Cat Riders (gotta keep Ride's name in there).


CWRU had the d3football play of the week!

http://www.d3football.com/awards/playoftheweek/2017/week11
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 14, 2017, 08:15:47 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 14, 2017, 03:08:48 AM
One still has to wonder why the name "Rough Cats" wasn't chosen to unite the mascots: CIT Rough Riders (named after Ride), and the Western Reserve Red Cats.

Or the Cat Riders (gotta keep Ride's name in there).


CWRU had the d3football play of the week!

http://www.d3football.com/awards/playoftheweek/2017/week11

Punt was blocked by Zach Lyon, not Lyons.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2017, 07:23:19 PM
Or the Red Riders. Might have worked for a while.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 14, 2017, 08:53:56 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2017, 07:23:19 PM
Or the Red Riders. Might have worked for a while.

Don't think the Casies would have gone for the color red. Cat Riders doesn't sound too intimidating.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 16, 2017, 12:12:39 AM
Nice 4.5 min audio: 

http://wksu.org/post/view-pluto-case-western-reserve-students-are-excelling-atfootball#stream/0
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 17, 2017, 06:09:31 AM
CWRU practicing at Indianapolis Colts practice facilty today:

"The six-plus-hour bus ride to Illinois Wesleyan will have a pit stop. Through the help of Chargers general manager Tom Telesco, Case will stop in Indianapolis and practice at the Colts' practice facility Nov. 17. Telesco is a JCU grad who played football there when Debeljak was a JCU assistant."

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20171116/case-western-reserve-football-team-ready-to-get-back-to-work-in-division-iii-playoffs
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 18, 2017, 03:34:04 PM
WOW!!!

What a GREAT victory for the Spartans!!!

28-0 over the #11 team in the country ON THE ROAD..............DURING A SNOWSTORM!!!

IWU had only given up ONE rushing TD all season until now.  Case got FOUR against them.

Bring on the Purple People Eaters!!!!

As the great Spartan leader Leonidas once said................SPARTANS ..........PREPARE FOR GLORY!!!

AHOO!!!  AHOO!!!  AHOO!!!

This is another "statement" victory.  It proves that Case is a legitimate playoff team, a legitimate Top 15 team, and a legitimate contender.......................NOT a flukish pretender.

To heck with strength of schedule................you can't get a STRONGER opening round victory than this!!!

GO CASE!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 18, 2017, 03:45:35 PM
Coupled with W&J's win on a last minute field goal (only the third one all season) and three streight sacks of the JHU QB to end the game, a great day for the PAC!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 18, 2017, 03:54:17 PM
Congrats to the PAC today!  2-0 -  what a great day.

Also reinforces how underrated Carnegie Mellon and Westminster were this season.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 18, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
Great game by the o-line and Aaron Aguilar who carried the load after 1,000-yard rusher Jacob Burke was apparently injured in the first quarter. Got a big help though from IWU's punter who had trouble catching the snap. 

Muhlenberg kinda humbled CMU today.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 18, 2017, 05:00:04 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 18, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
Great game by the o-line and Aaron Aguilar who carried the load after 1,000-yard rusher Jacob Burke was apparently injured in the first quarter. Got a big help though from IWU's punter who had trouble catching the snap. 

Same concern -- while happy to see Aguilar have such an impactful, career day, any word on what happened to Burke??
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 18, 2017, 06:04:12 PM
Major props to both Case and W&J. Great to see both teams advance.

Tough one for the Tartans in the ECAC game. Never really got in sync.

This class of CMU seniors was a great group. We had some individual record-breakers in Benger & Prather, as well as some major contributors on defense. While I had hoped they could break through for a league title at some point, three straight bowl games and a career record of 26-17 is a nice step back towards league title contention and regional-ranking-level competition.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 18, 2017, 06:16:09 PM
Good to hear from you, ExTartan.

One has to think that the future of the PAC looks pretty good, even with the loss of TMC.

Next year would expect the "big four" to be back, and some others (e.g. Grove City) to be completive.

One more week until this board begins it's long winter/spring nap hopefully waking in the late summer for another year of engaging banter!

Safe travels next week. I was tempted to try to get to Washington/Frostburg next Saturday, but not in the cards.

Jeff in East Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 18, 2017, 06:32:53 PM
Grove City is an underrated story, one of those fun things you can find every season in D3.  Really cool to see Andrew DiDonato make some headway there.  Would be remiss if I did not congratulate the GCC coaches and seniors for coming up with four wins this year.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 18, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
CWRU is going to have a lot of rebuilding to do next year though.

Many of this year's top contributors (Ex: Cuda) are Seniors.

If Case is going to make a deep run............then THIS is the year to do it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 18, 2017, 07:43:37 PM
Here's from the Cleveland newspaper:

Case Western Reserve blanks Illinois Wesleyan in D3 football playoffs, 28-0

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/11/case_western_reserve_blanks_il.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 19, 2017, 01:09:42 AM
Interesting:  https://mobile.twitter.com/professorbriggs/status/932089149888266240
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on November 19, 2017, 07:13:34 AM
DagarmanSpartan et al

A huge congrats to Case Institute of Technology. Well, that's what it was called when I was at Mount Union.
It'll be great having 2 Ohio teams play each other. Texas isn't the only place for football!
Because of the proximity oF CWRU, and it's outstanding academic reputation, I have been a fan for years. Looking forward to Saturday in Alliance. Glad to see old Case Tech moving on!
Good luck to both teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on November 19, 2017, 07:23:28 AM

WashJeff68 et al

Also a big congrats to W&J. Always glad to see a coach Mike Sirianni (Mount grad) team do well.
Good luck against Frostburg State. Should be at W&J, right?
Go Presidents!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 19, 2017, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 18, 2017, 05:00:04 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 18, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
Great game by the o-line and Aaron Aguilar who carried the load after 1,000-yard rusher Jacob Burke was apparently injured in the first quarter. Got a big help though from IWU's punter who had trouble catching the snap. 

Same concern -- while happy to see Aguilar have such an impactful, career day, any word on what happened to Burke??

I looked at the replay.  He carried the ball once and appeared to get his ankle twisted by the tackler.  He walked off with a bit of a limp.  He didn't return until about five minute mark of first quarter.  He had one carry and again limped off.  Didn't appear to be too serious.  Hope that's the case.  Spartans will need all their weapons sharp, as well as all of the good fortune that they have experience lately to make it a game against Mt. Union.

Here's post-game press conf.  CWRU at about 10:00

https://portal.stretchinternet.com/iwu/portal.htm?eventId=408279&streamType=video
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 20, 2017, 03:06:51 AM
Quote from: MUC57 on November 19, 2017, 07:13:34 AM
DagarmanSpartan et al

A huge congrats to Case Institute of Technology. Well, that's what it was called when I was at Mount Union.
It'll be great having 2 Ohio teams play each other. Texas isn't the only place for football!
Because of the proximity oF CWRU, and it's outstanding academic reputation, I have been a fan for years. Looking forward to Saturday in Alliance. Glad to see old Case Tech moving on!
Good luck to both teams.

MUC57,

Thanks!  Actually, I'm surprised you only mentioned Case.  ADL70 and I are both Reserve types.

Interesting point of fact: Western Reserve is the only school in Ohio school that has a winning record against Ohio State.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Western_Reserve_Spartans_football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2017, 08:33:01 AM
Great wins by both PAC representatives this weekend. 

Not many expected 1 win out of the two games, let alone both. 

Its a VERY big accomplishment to win a playoff game - and its a big chore to win two.  I'll continue to root for the PAC teams. 

CWRU at The Machine:  I really wish I could be in Alliance for this one. 

Case will be prepared but can Cuda be the Cuda from two years ago?  He needs to be.  You don't beat Mount Union by running around them, way too much team speed on defense.  You have to run right at them (hopefully Burke is healthy enough to impact the game)... be balanced and have Cuda keep the defense honest. 

Wesley went into Alliance three years ago with a great team, a team that had challenged Mount Union the previous season.  The Wolverines ran three running plays running straight at Mount's defense and got 5 yards each.  Then they lost yardage trying to beat Mount to the corner and threw incomplete on 3rd down.  Mount Union scored the next 49 points as the staff at Wesley panicked, calling all passes.  They literally didn't run another running play until the 4th Quarter and Mount blew their doors completely off. 

I still remember talking to Pat C and wesleydad at halftime - there was nothing to be said.  Probably the first time the three of us together had absolutely nothing to say. 

Anyways:  I hope CWRU stays committed to offensive balance... and runs right at the PRaiders. 

Best of luck.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 20, 2017, 07:24:24 PM
Lots of interesting chat on the OAC board. Some even is about the CWRU/UMU game!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 20, 2017, 09:15:30 PM
If Case can possess the ball and not get beaten over the top, they could hang with Mount for a while.  The Mount O has good overall numbers, but it's not consistent.   Lots of big plays and lots of 3 and outs.  Very little in between.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 21, 2017, 12:22:38 AM
Man, Aguilar must be Chuck Norris in this story.  One too many?

http://d3football.com/playoffs/2017/pac-powers

Side note: awesome freaking article!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2017, 12:31:46 AM
Obviously, writer dealing with two teams with bit players making HUGE contributions, missed on the W&J kicker's name.  Been there, done that.

Maricio Garibay's 46-yard kick knuckled, hit the crossbar, bounced over giving W&J a 31-28 lead with less than a minute to play.  It was the 5th longest FG in school history. 

Interesting note, Garibary lost his place-kicking job in the Westminster game, struggling to hit PATs.  Josh Hnat missed a late field goal attempt, then hit the PAT in OT with what proved to be the winning point when Westminter's two-point pass play was broken up in the endzone.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 21, 2017, 09:03:21 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 20, 2017, 09:15:30 PM
If Case can possess the ball and not get beaten over the top, they could hang with Mount for a while.  The Mount O has good overall numbers, but it's not consistent.   Lots of big plays and lots of 3 and outs.  Very little in between.

There's also usually an adjustment period for a team in their first game against Mount Union.... maybe Kevin Burke helps CWRU prepare for that, maybe not? 

The key to me is the first 10 minutes of the game. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: raiderpa on November 21, 2017, 11:11:32 AM
The key adjustment for most teams that meet Mount Union is the speed of the game.  Mount has superior speed at most positions,  i.e..LB, DB, WR...
Most teams have some speed at certain positions, but Mount's overall speed is very difficult to match and usually is only matched by few teams, later in the playoffs.
The three Mount receivers are all burners with great hands and the Linebackers can keep up with the wideouts at most schools.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 21, 2017, 11:25:17 AM
I've tried to be a good little boy all fall long.
Then, in the span of a week, I get smitten like FOUR times.....

Damn, haven't even really had that much to SMITE about, 'cept maybe for the little thing about "how much stupidity fits in 40 seconds of the Academic Bowl".....LOL
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 21, 2017, 11:52:06 AM
Gang,

Over on the OAC board, a few people have pointed out that MU's usual starting QB is not on their two deep for the game.

Given the sheer depth in MU's program, that won't necessarily help us much, but I can't help but think that their offense may be down just a bit.

If a backup starts, then we need to blitz, blitz, blitz until he shows he can handle it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jamtod on November 21, 2017, 12:01:08 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 21, 2017, 11:52:06 AM
Gang,

Over on the OAC board, a few people have pointed out that MU's usual starting QB is not on their two deep for the game.

Given the sheer depth in MU's program, that won't necessarily help us much, but I can't help but think that their offense may be down just a bit.

If a backup starts, then we need to blitz, blitz, blitz until he shows he can handle it.

Per Pat and updated game notes, this was apparently a "typo" and has been changed. Fulford now listed as starter.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 21, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
FWIW  Burke also listed as starter (Jacob that is)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 21, 2017, 02:16:54 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 21, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
FWIW  Burke also listed as starter (Jacob that is)

Wow.   I thought for a second that Kevin was suiting up to play QB ???
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 21, 2017, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 21, 2017, 02:16:54 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 21, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
FWIW  Burke also listed as starter (Jacob that is)

Wow.   I thought for a second that Kevin was suiting up to play QB ???

But for which team?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on November 22, 2017, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 20, 2017, 09:15:30 PM
If Case can possess the ball and not get beaten over the top, they could hang with Mount for a while.  The Mount O has good overall numbers, but it's not consistent.   Lots of big plays and lots of 3 and outs.  Very little in between.

Great point HS coach, to add to that id say if that an early indicator of success for the Case defense will be preventing those bigger plays on 1st and 2nd down. Of all the statistical categories Mounts offense impresses in 3rd down conversion percentage is not their best attribute and Case has one of the best 3rd down Ds in the country.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 22, 2017, 02:44:28 PM
From Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Mount Union and Case Western Reserve: Two remarkable football programs

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/11/mount_union_case_western_two_r.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 22, 2017, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on November 22, 2017, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 20, 2017, 09:15:30 PM
If Case can possess the ball and not get beaten over the top, they could hang with Mount for a while.  The Mount O has good overall numbers, but it's not consistent.   Lots of big plays and lots of 3 and outs.  Very little in between.

Great point HS coach, to add to that id say if that an early indicator of success for the Case defense will be preventing those bigger plays on 1st and 2nd down. Of all the statistical categories Mounts offense impresses in 3rd down conversion percentage is not their best attribute and Case has one of the best 3rd down Ds in the country.

For reference last week against W&L, Mount was 0 of 8 on 3rd down.  Big-time explosives, but not grind it out consistent.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 22, 2017, 06:30:42 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2017, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on November 22, 2017, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 20, 2017, 09:15:30 PM
If Case can possess the ball and not get beaten over the top, they could hang with Mount for a while.  The Mount O has good overall numbers, but it's not consistent.   Lots of big plays and lots of 3 and outs.  Very little in between.

Great point HS coach, to add to that id say if that an early indicator of success for the Case defense will be preventing those bigger plays on 1st and 2nd down. Of all the statistical categories Mounts offense impresses in 3rd down conversion percentage is not their best attribute and Case has one of the best 3rd down Ds in the country.

For reference last week against W&L, Mount was 0 of 8 on 3rd down.  Big-time explosives, but not grind it out consistent.

How much of the lack of success do you think lies in the fact Mount has a new OC who's spent most (if not all) of his coaching years on the defensive side of the ball? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HScoach on November 22, 2017, 07:46:26 PM
I think it's more about the average O-line and RB's.  Plus the QB has shown better accuracy on the deep ball than he has on hitting a 7 yard out on 3rd down.  Wierd season offensively.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 24, 2017, 12:56:20 AM
Both W&J and CWRU have, by complete consensus, been picked not to advance this Saturday:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2017/11/24/quick-hits-take-on-second-round-scores/

Good luck to the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 24, 2017, 08:05:13 PM
Further pregame coverage from the Cleveland papers:

Case Western football faces huge playoff test at D-III power Mount Union

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20171124/case-western-football-faces-huge-playoff-test-at-d-iii-power-mount-union


Case Western Reserve plays Mount Union thanks to unlikely hero (video)

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/11/case_western_reserve_plays_mount_union.html


EDIT:

This quote from Aguilar sounds very California:

"I felt really good during the game," said Aguilar, a 5-6, 182-pound senior from California. "Coach said I was the dude."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: edward de vere on November 25, 2017, 12:08:51 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2017, 07:46:26 PM
Plus the QB has shown better accuracy on the deep ball than he has on hitting a 7 yard out on 3rd down. 

Shades of Mark Rypien.  Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 10 yards but was a Super Bowl MVP.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: edward de vere on November 25, 2017, 12:12:32 AM
Quote from: E.115 link=topic=3947.msg1838430#msg1838430 date=1511571913 Aguilar, a 5-6, 182-pound senior from California. "
/quote]

5-6, 182 against Mount Union?  He better have a SERIOUS case of the quicks and/or be playing behind one of the Wisconsin-Whitewater O-lines of yore.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 12:40:45 AM
^ For what it's worth, he did have three running TDs last week against Illinois Wesleyan, who had only given up one rushing TD all season (and beat Wisconsin- Whitewater this year).  He took over for our 1000-yard rusher, Jacob Burke, after we went down last week.  He does have a serious Case of the quicks though.  :)

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Desertraider on November 25, 2017, 10:39:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 12:40:45 AM
^ For what it's worth, he did have three running TDs last week against Illinois Wesleyan, who had only given up one rushing TD all season (and beat Wisconsin- Whitewater this year).  He took over for our 1000-yard rusher, Jacob Burke, after we went down last week.  He does have a serious Case of the quicks though.  :)

Is Burke out for remainder? I wanted to see him play.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 25, 2017, 11:05:18 AM
Quote from: desertraider on November 25, 2017, 10:39:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 12:40:45 AM
^ For what it's worth, he did have three running TDs last week against Illinois Wesleyan, who had only given up one rushing TD all season (and beat Wisconsin- Whitewater this year).  He took over for our 1000-yard rusher, Jacob Burke, after we went down last week.  He does have a serious Case of the quicks though.  :)

Is Burke out for remainder? I wanted to see him play.

The coach's quote was something like "he is going to try and give it a go" so unfortunately it sounds like even if he does play, he won't be anywhere near 100%.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 01:18:25 PM
Burke looks to be around 25%-50% strength.  Always an emotional decision to start a hurt player or gives to keys to the back up.

And Mount's defense ate Cuda alive in the first half...picking him off 3 times. 

I'm most impressive with Mount's cornerbacks.  They are 1-2 steps faster than any of CWRU's wide receivers.

HALF 21-6 Mount Union
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 25, 2017, 01:20:41 PM
Their skill position players are MUCH faster and more athletic than ours are.

We'd better start running some trick plays.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 01:23:57 PM
Or run the ball in general.  I don't know why we have essentially abandoned the run.  (I'm guessing with Burke being banged up?)

Do we use Aguilar again like last week?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 25, 2017, 02:38:34 PM
Well, Mount Union was a bit too talented for us.

I'll go ahead and root for them to go all the way.

Still, good season for the Spartans.  I hope that we should still have some talent to contend next year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 01:23:57 PM
Or run the ball in general.  I don't know why we have essentially abandoned the run.  (I'm guessing with Burke being banged up?)

Do we use Aguilar again like last week?

Every playoff opponent save UMHB, St Thomas, Wisconsin end up abandoning the run against Mount Union.  It was a good showing for Case, Mounts speed takes some getting used to.  Once Cuda did, he was fine. 

Still a glass ceiling for PAC teams in Round 2.  It's very tough to win 2 games in the tourney. 

Very good seasons for both Case and W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on November 25, 2017, 04:20:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 01:23:57 PM
Or run the ball in general.  I don't know why we have essentially abandoned the run.  (I'm guessing with Burke being banged up?)

Do we use Aguilar again like last week?

Every playoff opponent save UMHB, St Thomas, Wisconsin end up abandoning the run against Mount Union.  It was a good showing for Case, Mounts speed takes some getting used to.  Once Cuda did, he was fine. 

Still a glass ceiling for PAC teams in Round 2.  It's very tough to win 2 games in the tourney. 

Very good seasons for both Case and W&J.

Not all of them. W&L didn't abandon the run.  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on November 25, 2017, 08:01:23 PM

Congrats to Case Western Reserve on a good game and a great season. I bet there are over 200 teams in Dlll that would love to have gone 11-1. No shame in losing to Mount Union, they're pretty good. Besides, at the risk of sounding arrogant, most teams have lost to UMU over the last several decades.
Have a good off season. Hope to see you back next year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2017, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 25, 2017, 04:20:11 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 25, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 25, 2017, 01:23:57 PM
Or run the ball in general.  I don't know why we have essentially abandoned the run.  (I'm guessing with Burke being banged up?)

Do we use Aguilar again like last week?

Every playoff opponent save UMHB, St Thomas, Wisconsin end up abandoning the run against Mount Union.  It was a good showing for Case, Mounts speed takes some getting used to.  Once Cuda did, he was fine. 

Still a glass ceiling for PAC teams in Round 2.  It's very tough to win 2 games in the tourney. 

Very good seasons for both Case and W&J.

Not all of them. W&L didn't abandon the run.  ;D

+K
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 26, 2017, 07:41:37 PM
Out of curiosity, is there a "Final Top 25" ranking done at the end of the playoffs?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 26, 2017, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 26, 2017, 07:41:37 PM
Out of curiosity, is there a "Final Top 25" ranking done at the end of the playoffs?

Yes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 08, 2017, 01:32:41 AM
As a novelty, off-season post for CWRU fans, Arizona State is back in the Sun Bowl:  http://www.kvoa.com/story/36983878/asu-returning-to-el-paso-the-sun-bowl
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 08, 2017, 09:21:36 AM
+k
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 08, 2017, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: E.115 on December 08, 2017, 01:32:41 AM
As a novelty, off-season post for CWRU fans, Arizona State is back in the Sun Bowl:  http://www.kvoa.com/story/36983878/asu-returning-to-el-paso-the-sun-bowl
ASU is 0-1-1 against D3  in Sun Bowl play.   :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 08, 2017, 09:39:32 AM
Tied Catholic in 1940 lost to Western Reserve in 1941, both games played on January 1.

Hardin-Simmons and Southwestern also played in the Sun Bowl. HSU's last appearance was after the 1958 season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 08, 2017, 02:37:41 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on December 08, 2017, 09:39:32 AM
Tied Catholic in 1940 lost to Western Reserve in 1941, both games played on January 1.

Hardin-Simmons and Southwestern also played in the Sun Bowl. HSU's last appearance was after the 1958 season.
That has to be a 3-day train ride from DC and Cleveland respectively.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on December 14, 2017, 05:17:06 PM

Nice recognition for the PAC. Three first team All Americans! One was also a COSIDA Academic All American:


http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2017/12/14/football-three-pac-players-named-to-ap-little-all-america-squad.aspx?path=

Hard to replace talent like that.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 14, 2017, 05:45:58 PM
CWRU's Cody Calhoun also COSIDA Academic AA
http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20171213gfecsr

Gage Blair AFCA 2nd team AA
http://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/releases/20171212frur5d

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 18, 2017, 06:02:05 PM
Case just received its highest ever final DIII poll final ranking.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 31, 2017, 11:47:30 AM
For your bowl game reading pleasure...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/her-dad-was-the-rose-bowls-first-black-qb-in-1922-this-year-hell-join-the-hall-of-fame/2017/12/28/0cd98148-eb26-11e7-891f-e7a3c60a93de_story.html?utm_term=.65b3c5f59638

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on January 17, 2018, 06:11:31 AM
CWRU landed a solid LB prospect from LHPS (Orlando). I know a lot of coaches like to recruit in SoFL and Tampa, but there are a lot of prep kids here in CFL that are perfect d3 candidates. Congrats to Case on getting one of the better ones.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 17, 2018, 12:37:52 PM
I take it that is Lake Highland Prep.  Luis Rivera II.
https://www.hudl.com/profile/2106590/Luis-Rivera-II

Thanks for the heads up.


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 17, 2018, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 17, 2018, 12:37:52 PM
I take it that is Lake Highland Prep.  Luis Rivera II.
https://www.hudl.com/profile/2106590/Luis-Rivera-II

Thanks for the heads up.

It's always fun this time of year to start see future players to post their school decision on public social media.

For example, here's another one for CWRU...a DE from Upper St. Clair in Pittsburgh, PA: https://mobile.twitter.com/DantGrecco/status/945727712571920386
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 17, 2018, 06:49:44 PM
Quote from: E.115 on January 17, 2018, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 17, 2018, 12:37:52 PM
I take it that is Lake Highland Prep.  Luis Rivera II.
https://www.hudl.com/profile/2106590/Luis-Rivera-II

Thanks for the heads up.

It's always fun this time of year to start see future players to post their school decision on public social media.

For example, here's another one for CWRU...a DE from Upper St. Clair in Pittsburgh, PA: https://mobile.twitter.com/DantGrecco/status/945727712571920386


6'0 230  https://www.hudl.com/profile/3746173/Dante-Grecco

He was All-Conf - three Upper St Clair players were on this year's Spartan roster

BTW I saw something on social media that CWRU will be returning to Italy this spring as they did prior to the 2015 season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on January 21, 2018, 11:32:20 PM
Given our losses, we really need to sign some impact talent.

Finding a new QB is paramount.

This could be Debs' biggest rebuilding project.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 22, 2018, 11:15:20 AM
Drew Saxton perhaps? 

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-football/2018/01/03/Brady-Walker-Drew-Saxton-college-recruiting-Quaker-Valley-Ricky-Guss/stories/201801050020
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 26, 2018, 11:10:19 AM
Another commit with roman numerals. DD3? QB from same HS is interested as well.  Reminds me a bit of Manny Sicre - also #2

http://www.ncsasports.org/football-recruiting/maryland/annapolis/st-marys-high-school33/donald-day-iii

https://www.hudl.com/profile/4229284/Donald-H-Day-III
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 05, 2018, 02:57:13 PM
Washington & Jefferson adds Trinity Area High School's all-time leading rusher....

https://observer-reporter.com/sports/trinity-s-koroly-stays-local-picks-w-j/article_5b8807ca-09fc-11e8-8d81-6b0fad6beb11.html

He'd look great taking hand-offs and catching passes from Drew Saxton in a couple years!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 05, 2018, 06:11:59 PM
Has Saxton committed to W&J?  It appears that he's no longer following CWRU football on twitter.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 05, 2018, 07:44:06 PM
Not that I know of, ADL70, but he's certainly LOOKING at W&J.  I do know that he likes Case, too.
Don't do the Twitter thing so I have no idea what's happening with that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 08, 2018, 04:02:28 PM
DIII schedules for 2018 are starting to be posted on DIIIFootball.com I suspected it would be a challenge for TMC to fill the schedule. Here is what is showing so far.

All are away games:

9/22 Huntington, Montgomery, AL 554 miles from Cincinnati
10/20 St. Scholastica Duluth, MN 765 miles from Cincinnati
11/10 St. Johns Collegeville MN 783 miles from Cincinnaiti

Hopefully the rest of their schedule will be less of a barnstorm. I hope scheduling other sports will be a little easier than it appears scheduling football has been unless there are other committments in place that have not yet been posted to the D111 site.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2018, 02:32:33 PM
There are other TMC games we have heard about but don't have a schedule from either team to verify. St. Lawrence, N.C. Wesleyan, Hanover.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on February 09, 2018, 04:36:51 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on February 08, 2018, 04:02:28 PM
DIII schedules for 2018 are starting to be posted on DIIIFootball.com I suspected it would be a challenge for TMC to fill the schedule. Here is what is showing so far.

All are away games:

9/22 Huntington, Montgomery, AL 554 miles from Cincinnati
10/20 St. Scholastica Duluth, MN 765 miles from Cincinnati
11/10 St. Johns Collegeville MN 783 miles from Cincinnaiti

Hopefully the rest of their schedule will be less of a barnstorm. I hope scheduling other sports will be a little easier than it appears scheduling football has been unless there are other committments in place that have not yet been posted to the D111 site.

Trips such as those above are beyond absurd in the regular season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 09, 2018, 08:09:05 PM
Pretty standard to take those kinds of trips for an independent. How many times did Wesley go to Menlo? It is a brutal way to schedule these days and I hope TMC has a plan for the long term.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 11:57:46 PM
Quote from: jknezek on February 09, 2018, 08:09:05 PM
Pretty standard to take those kinds of trips for an independent. How many times did Wesley go to Menlo? It is a brutal way to schedule these days and I hope TMC has a plan for the long term.
Who would want TMC or would need them? That is a tough question to ask.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on February 10, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
Crestview Hills to Canton, NY ---> 712-60 miles, depending on the route.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 10, 2018, 11:00:40 AM
Of the schools mentioned so far only Hanover is even 'remotely close'.  Is that an oxymoron?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Joe Rockhead on February 10, 2018, 12:49:12 PM
Heard a rumor that Muhlenberg will be making the 550 mile trip to TMC on October 13 forgoing the Centennial's mid-season bye and opting to take their open date the first week of the season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2018, 01:03:37 PM
Quote from: Joe Rockhead on February 10, 2018, 12:49:12 PM
Heard a rumor that Muhlenberg will be making the 550 mile trip to TMC on October 13 forgoing the Centennial's mid-season bye and opting to take their open date the first week of the season.

That would be awesome. I hope that happens.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 10, 2018, 01:43:43 PM
Pat,

Have you heard anything regarding a new conference home for TMC?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2018, 02:29:16 PM
No -- I think we're not likely to, either.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 10, 2018, 03:38:39 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2018, 02:29:16 PM
No -- I think we're not likely to, either.

That pretty much forces them to look to DII. I just don't see being independent in all sports as a long term solution.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2018, 03:46:22 PM
I suspect the NAIA is a more likely destination than NCAA Division II.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 10, 2018, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2018, 03:46:22 PM
I suspect the NAIA is a more likely destination than NCAA Division II.

bleh...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2018, 04:48:53 PM
Agreed. I'd hate to lose them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 10, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
A quick look at NAIA conferences on Wekipedia showed no obvious fits.

The best geographic NAIA plan I saw could be to join the Mid States Football Association and the River States Conference (which does not sponsor football) for other sports. TMC was a member of the RSC from 1955-1991 when it was known as the Kentucky Intercollegiate Athletic Conference before moving to DIII.

The RSC only offers 7 sports for Men and 8 for women. That would leave sports like wrestling and the newly announced swiming & diving programs without a conference affiliation unless they could become associate members of some other conference.

Clearly TMC has a challenge ahead of them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 11, 2018, 07:49:40 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on February 10, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
A quick look at NAIA conferences on Wekipedia showed no obvious fits.

The best geographic NAIA plan I saw could be to join the Mid States Football Association and the River States Conference (which does not sponsor football) for other sports. TMC was a member of the RSC from 1955-1991 when it was known as the Kentucky Intercollegiate Athletic Conference before moving to DIII.

The RSC only offers 7 sports for Men and 8 for women. That would leave sports like wrestling and the newly announced swiming & diving programs without a conference affiliation unless they could become associate members of some other conference.

Clearly TMC has a challenge ahead of them.

There are 6 football playing members of the Mid-South Conference in the state of Kentucky.  If they go NAIA, it would be a good geographic fit.

I think they stay in the NCAA
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 11, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Anyone know the last football playing school to go from DIII to NAIA? It's been more the other direction the last 10 years so far as I remember.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2018, 09:15:09 PM
Menlo. Then dropped the sport. But you're right -- most of the direction has been the other way.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 12, 2018, 07:54:33 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2018, 09:15:09 PM
Menlo. Then dropped the sport. But you're right -- most of the direction has been the other way.

Pat:  I'm just curious which board I should frequent for TMC postings this upcoming season  :-[
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 12, 2018, 08:05:56 AM
SaintsFan,

After visiing the Mid South web site (vs just Wikepedia) I can see how TMC would fit in. They would be the 8th football playing school in the Bluegrass Division. Another positive is that they sponsor a broad range of spoets. The only one that appeared to be missing is Lacrosse.

How do you think TMC will handle travel logistics - eg Montgomery, AL one week, Canton, NY the next.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2018, 08:29:47 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on February 12, 2018, 08:05:56 AM
SaintsFan,

After visiing the Mid South web site (vs just Wikepedia) I can see how TMC would fit in. They would be the 8th football playing school in the Bluegrass Division. Another positive is that they sponsor a broad range of spoets. The only one that appeared to be missing is Lacrosse.

How do you think TMC will handle travel logistics - eg Montgomery, AL one week, Canton, NY the next.
The only thing that is missing is a trip to the West Coast the next week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 12, 2018, 09:20:38 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on February 12, 2018, 08:05:56 AM
SaintsFan,

After visiing the Mid South web site (vs just Wikepedia) I can see how TMC would fit in. They would be the 8th football playing school in the Bluegrass Division. Another positive is that they sponsor a broad range of spoets. The only one that appeared to be missing is Lacrosse.

How do you think TMC will handle travel logistics - eg Montgomery, AL one week, Canton, NY the next.

I think as Pat pointed out, the St. John's game is probably a guarantee and will help support the travel for 2018.

I'm not sure how everything will work with the kids and having to be in class.  The team has bused to Huntingdon and Alfred in the past.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 21, 2018, 03:05:12 PM
Just got non-conference schedule details for W&J for the next five years:

W&J will open 2018 AT St. John Fisher, 2nd year of this current home & home.

The Presidents will then play home & home with Wittenberg (2019-2020) and John Carroll (2021-2022).
All are early September games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 21, 2018, 04:18:39 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 21, 2018, 03:05:12 PM
Just got non-conference schedule details for W&J for the next five years:

W&J will open 2018 AT St. John Fisher, 2nd year of this current home & home.

The Presidents will then play home & home with Wittenberg (2019-2020) and John Carroll (2021-2022).
All are early September games.

Still a chance for 2023 with W&L but I never did get a response.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2018, 05:11:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 21, 2018, 03:05:12 PM
Just got non-conference schedule details for W&J for the next five years:

W&J will open 2018 AT St. John Fisher, 2nd year of this current home & home.

The Presidents will then play home & home with Wittenberg (2019-2020) and John Carroll (2021-2022).
All are early September games.

Those are pretty cool Week 1/Week 2 matchups. I like!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 22, 2018, 08:02:33 AM
Pretty clear they are using their OOC game as a "test" rather than a "tune up."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 23, 2018, 09:27:06 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on February 22, 2018, 08:02:33 AM
Pretty clear they are using their OOC game as a "test" rather than a "tune up."

Probably also more confident in being able to run the PAC table?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on February 23, 2018, 11:29:31 AM
Came across this aerial photo of DiSanto Field @ Case Western Reserve. 

Really captures the field's unique setting:

http://www.skylinescenes.com/products/disanto-field-at-cwru-v55420
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 26, 2018, 08:50:38 AM
Thomas More has released its schedule for 2018.  Its a really tough one in terms of having 7 road games, distance to be traveled and who they have scheduled. 

There are four games which really stand out:  At home vs. UW Plattville and Muhlenberg , road games Saint Johns and Huntington.

You'll also notice they have their first D2 opponent since the Dean Paul era.. when they host Lake Erie College.

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2018-19/schedule
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 26, 2018, 09:47:38 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on February 26, 2018, 08:50:38 AM
Thomas More has released its schedule for 2018.  Its a really tough one in terms of having 7 road games, distance to be traveled and who they have scheduled. 

There are four games which really stand out:  At home vs. UW Plattville and Muhlenberg , road games Saint Johns and Huntington.

You'll also notice they have their first D2 opponent since the Dean Paul era.. when they host Lake Erie College.

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2018-19/schedule

The life of a DIII independent is getting less and less practical. I wonder how many of these are home and homes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on February 26, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on February 26, 2018, 08:50:38 AM
Thomas More has released its schedule for 2018.  Its a really tough one in terms of having 7 road games, distance to be traveled and who they have scheduled. 

There are four games which really stand out:  At home vs. UW Plattville and Muhlenberg , road games Saint Johns and Huntington.

You'll also notice they have their first D2 opponent since the Dean Paul era.. when they host Lake Erie College.

http://tmcsaints.com/sports/fball/2018-19/schedule

Incredibly challenging here, but if the Saints can get through the D-III portion of that schedule with one loss, it looks like a pretty good at-large profile, iyam. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on February 26, 2018, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: jknezek on February 26, 2018, 09:47:38 AM
The life of a DIII independent is getting less and less practical. I wonder how many of these are home and homes.

I bet not many. 

Quote from: wally_wabash on February 26, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
Incredibly challenging here, but if the Saints can get through the D-III portion of that schedule with one loss, it looks like a pretty good at-large profile, iyam.

How many teams are Pool B eligibile in 2018?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: sigma one on February 26, 2018, 12:02:02 PM
A quick look shows that for the seven away games Thomas More will travel a smidge over 3200 miles.  Hanover is closest:  72 miles.  E & H: 217 miles.  The other five are 400+ miles, with three games more than 600 miles from Crestview Hills:  N.C. Wesleyan--429; Huntingdon--547;  St. Lawrence--618; St. Scholastica--657;  St. John's--674.  Maybe they will fly to a couple of games; but if they bus, those are difficult odysseys.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on February 26, 2018, 01:22:25 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on February 26, 2018, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on February 26, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
Incredibly challenging here, but if the Saints can get through the D-III portion of that schedule with one loss, it looks like a pretty good at-large profile, iyam.

How many teams are Pool B eligibile in 2018?

I wanna say that it's going to be one.  Pool B eligible teams are the NEWMAC plus Thomas More and those nine teams should be over the threshold for a Pool B bid. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 26, 2018, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 21, 2018, 03:05:12 PM
Just got non-conference schedule details for W&J for the next five years:

W&J will open 2018 AT St. John Fisher, 2nd year of this current home & home.

The Presidents will then play home & home with Wittenberg (2019-2020) and John Carroll (2021-2022).
All are early September games.

Would love for CWRU to pick up those in the alternate years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 27, 2018, 10:02:43 AM
Just got word that CWRU gets Drew Saxton, QB, South Fayette.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 27, 2018, 11:41:54 AM
https://twitter.com/drewsax14?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on March 12, 2018, 11:47:38 AM
W&J player attending NFL scouting combine in PA:

https://observer-reporter.com/sports/college_sports/area-small-college-players-to-participate-in-scouting-combine/article_370ce3ba-2587-11e8-8ae1-2f17a2a37445.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on March 12, 2018, 04:54:44 PM
I saw that. Any idea who the CMU player is?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on March 26, 2018, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on February 27, 2018, 10:02:43 AM
Just got word that CWRU gets Drew Saxton, QB, South Fayette.

Definitely looks like CWRU is looking forward to adding him to the roster; he's the first player they've announced on social media:  https://twitter.com/CWRUFootball/status/976903676034940935

Also, CWRU picked up a speedy DB from the Chicago-metro...a definite upgrade on speed if that metric listed is correct: https://www.hudl.com/profile/4566511/Colin-Schuster
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on April 20, 2018, 11:58:49 AM
So, unable to find a suitable new home in the NCAA Thomas More is moving to the NAIA Mid South conference in 2019-2020.  I'm sure TMC is happy to get this resolved.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 20, 2018, 01:48:18 PM
May move... still a chance they stay in DIII. They need to find a new home in the next year, but have left the door open. This is basically a final resort option with the NAIA.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 09, 2018, 12:52:52 PM
CWRU football twitter page is again welcoming and announcing each incoming freshman individually, highlighting their home state, position, and size:

https://twitter.com/cwrufootball

Is its just me, or does this year's class seem a bit taller than past years?   And I wonder when the complete list of newcomers will be released?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 10, 2018, 02:06:38 AM
They've really been teasing us with one a day. CMU posted its full class today. Yep a lot of height one 6'6, three 6'5, and one 6'4 so far out of 24 frosh-to-be.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 10, 2018, 05:47:59 PM
^ Agreed.

Good luck to a safe, fun, and injury-free trip to the CWRU football team as they play the Milano Rhinos:

CWRU SPARTANS TO DEPART FOR NORTHERN ITALY AND SWITZERLAND

http://americanfootballworldwide.com/featured/cwru-spartans-depart-northern-italy-switzerland/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 10, 2018, 09:28:16 PM
After the 2015 trip Spartans went 7-3. 9-1, 11-1.

In 2015 there was streaming of the game.  I looked at the Rhinos' website and the game isn't even mentioned.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 15, 2018, 01:41:11 PM
CWRU game vs Rhinos Milano

http://americanfootballworldwide.com/featured/cwru-spartans-efficiently-dominate-italy/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 16, 2018, 12:58:57 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on May 15, 2018, 01:41:11 PM
CWRU game vs Rhinos Milano

http://americanfootballworldwide.com/featured/cwru-spartans-efficiently-dominate-italy/

^ Welp, I wonder if we have our QB.  And it sounds like he's got some wheels:

"...quarterback Ryan Coolidge ran for 42-yards, to inside the Rhinos 10-yard line..."

In some other surprising news,

Harbaugh / Michigan Wolverine coaching staff will be attending the Case Western Reserve football camp on Jul 15.

Jim Harbaugh, Michigan to open 2018 satellite camp schedule June 1 in Georgia
Updated on May 14, 2018 at 07:03 AM

"Harbaugh also confirmed the July 15 camp at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio."

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2018/05/jim_harbaugh_michigan_to_open_1.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 25, 2018, 07:19:56 AM
Interesting:

http://www.nkytribune.com/2018/05/thomas-more-college-announces-resignation-of-president-david-a-armstrong-for-position-in-miami/

New job is at an NAIA school with no football program. TMC seemed to be on a roll, and not just athletically. Seems like a strange time to move, but Miami vs Cincinnati could make it easier, and a new challenge is always exciting.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 01, 2018, 07:14:39 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on May 25, 2018, 07:19:56 AM
Interesting:

http://www.nkytribune.com/2018/05/thomas-more-college-announces-resignation-of-president-david-a-armstrong-for-position-in-miami/

New job is at an NAIA school with no football program. TMC seemed to be on a roll, and not just athletically. Seems like a strange time to move, but Miami vs Cincinnati could make it easier, and a new challenge is always exciting.

or perhaps a new challenge with more preferable challenges?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 01, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
SaintsFan,

At TMC there will be challenges for the athletic program such as winding their way through 18/19,then transitioning to...... Clearly these challenges will not exist in FL unless The Prez has some new ideas.

Are there some off the field challenges he would prefer not to deal with? Certainly understand if you choose not to discuss, or are unaware of any. Since he signed a contract extension in 2016 taking him until (or through) 2022, and the recent progress at TMC - new programs, student body growth, as well as athletic success, the timing of this move seems a little strange, but as the TV show lead in used to say...."There are 8 million stories in the naked city, and this is one of them"

Congrats to the TMC winning the PAC Men's all sports trophy. That baseball win against W&J apparently made the difference. Nice way to go out. Nice words from both coaches afterwords complimenting each other's program.

Hope you will continue to follow the PAC Board and let us know how things are going for TMC. As I've said before, we lived in Cincinnati for a long time and have followed TMC, especially once they joined the PAC. I expect I'll continue to follow them. Still get the Cincy paper on line.

Jeff in East Tennessee
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 04, 2018, 09:00:07 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 01, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
SaintsFan,

At TMC there will be challenges for the athletic program such as winding their way through 18/19,then transitioning to...... Clearly these challenges will not exist in FL unless The Prez has some new ideas.

Are there some off the field challenges he would prefer not to deal with? Certainly understand if you choose not to discuss, or are unaware of any. Since he signed a contract extension in 2016 taking him until (or through) 2022, and the recent progress at TMC - new programs, student body growth, as well as athletic success, the timing of this move seems a little strange, but as the TV show lead in used to say...."There are 8 million stories in the naked city, and this is one of them"

Congrats to the TMC winning the PAC Men's all sports trophy. That baseball win against W&J apparently made the difference. Nice way to go out. Nice words from both coaches afterwords complimenting each other's program.

Hope you will continue to follow the PAC Board and let us know how things are going for TMC. As I've said before, we lived in Cincinnati for a long time and have followed TMC, especially once they joined the PAC. I expect I'll continue to follow them. Still get the Cincy paper on line.

Jeff in East Tennessee

I haven't heard anything about this, but I think your first sentence could be 100% on the money. 

The school in Florida is not on probation and probably has a clear vision of the future while the future at TMC is undecided, presently. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on July 05, 2018, 05:04:30 PM
http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180703jc5l0q

This could mean a few different things for the football program.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 05, 2018, 08:09:42 PM
Clearly TMC wants to stay in DIII and I'm glad they found a home. In addition to football this leaves a bunch of other sports to try to set up schedules as independents. Travel also will be tough.

I thought the NAIA move had some advantages for TMC, but the ability to stay in NCAA apparently trumped all that. Gives them time to find a "better" home.

So, football appears to be set for 2018. What do you think might be next?

edited: or perhaps they are still headed to the NAIA and this is just part of the transition plan.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 06, 2018, 11:00:02 AM
From the TMC release: "The ACAA sponsors conference tournaments, but no regular season competition in eight sports: women's and men's cross country, women's and men's soccer, women's volleyball, women's and men's basketball and softball."

d3sports.com Feb 17, 2017:  "With seven schools, the conference would be eligible for automatic bids in 2019-20 in the sports which all schools offer. Notably, basketball is not one of them."

Doesn't seem like it's even much of a short-term solution.  I may be missing something, but I don't see any real advantage over continuing as an independent.

As I recall, Nebraska Wesleyan was once a dual member of both NAIA and NCAA DIII.  Is that still an option?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on July 06, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
Frank's analysis on the TMC situation was this:

No info re: @tmcsaints football. 4 choices exist based on announcement:

1) Find a #d3fb conf. (so far, fruitless);
2) Remain a #d3fb Independent ($$ & tough scheduling);
3) Disband football (unlikely); or
4) Join @TheNCCAA for football (dual membership permitted)

He views scenario 4 the most likely one btw.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on July 06, 2018, 06:43:22 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on July 06, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
Frank's analysis on the TMC situation was this:

No info re: @tmcsaints football. 4 choices exist based on announcement:

1) Find a #d3fb conf. (so far, fruitless);
2) Remain a #d3fb Independent ($$ & tough scheduling);
3) Disband football (unlikely); or
4) Join @TheNCCAA for football (dual membership permitted)

He views scenario 4 the most likely one btw.

I can't see being a member of a league with 20 football schools being terribly satisfying for a school like TMC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 13, 2018, 03:57:59 AM
Preseason:

http://www.d3football.com/top25/2018/preseason

#15 Washington and Jefferson
#23 Case Western Reserve

Exciting both schools play each other again this year.  @ W & J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 13, 2018, 11:00:06 AM
Wow!

I'm really surprised to see CWRU ranked in the pre-season Top 25 after losing Cuda and so many other key players.

I really thought that this would be a rebuilding year.

I somehow doubt that the Spartans will be able to live up to that, though I'm always hopeful that they will.

Who does CWRU have waiting in the wings to be the new QB?  Does anyone else besides me see a drop-off from last season?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 14, 2018, 06:36:58 PM
PAC Media Day Aug 2
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 14, 2018, 07:00:15 PM
QB Drew Saxton, freshman, out of South Fayette, will be in camp with CWRU
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 14, 2018, 09:15:57 PM
That's good news. A "commit" is not a guarantee.
Potentially there will be seven vying to replace Cuda.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 15, 2018, 04:03:00 PM
CWRU reported via twitter that over 80 prospects from 19 states were at its one day HS camp today.  Numbers bolstered no doubt by promise of Jim Harbaugh attending.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on July 15, 2018, 04:51:52 PM

All CWRU fans

Been reading some of your posts. Players like Cuda are always hard to replace. However; sounds like you'll have a group from which to choose a successor .
I've been a fan for many years. Superior academic school, Ohio school close to Alliance, well known around the nation. What's not to love? Also, way back in 1952, I applied to a school by the name of Case Institute of Technology. As I recall, and I hope I'm right, I was accepted. Easier, and cheaper to stay home so went to Mount Union.
Ah but I digress. Want to wish you the best in 2018. I have a feeling you'll do OK! See you in the playoffs? Go Spartans! 🏈
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 17, 2018, 10:05:59 PM
Thanks for checking in.

A game between Mt Union and Wittenberg in 1958 was the first college football game I ever attended. I was ten.  BTW Witt won 66-8
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 17, 2018, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on July 15, 2018, 04:51:52 PM

All CWRU fans

Been reading some of your posts. Players like Cuda are always hard to replace. However; sounds like you'll have a group from which to choose a successor .
I've been a fan for many years. Superior academic school, Ohio school close to Alliance, well known around the nation. What's not to love? Also, way back in 1952, I applied to a school by the name of Case Institute of Technology. As I recall, and I hope I'm right, I was accepted. Easier, and cheaper to stay home so went to Mount Union.
Ah but I digress. Want to wish you the best in 2018. I have a feeling you'll do OK! See you in the playoffs? Go Spartans! 🏈

Thanks for the GREAT comment.  I've always rooted for MU these past couple of decades for the fact they're a fellow Northeast Ohio team...plus a team to emulate and take pride in.

CWRU's respect for MU is evident even at the highest levels, with our Head Coach Greg Debeljak reaching out to then Coach Larry Kehres a couple of years ago for offense advice / friendly chatting.  Heck, Kevin Burke is now on the Spartan coaching staff!  Who knows if it was because of friendly engagement / mutual respect between Debeljak and Kehres.

I love history:

Case Tech and Mount Union go way back...the historical marker outside of Mount Union Stadium references it's inaugural game against Case:

http://www.remarkableohio.org/picture.php?/9605

Also interesting, both schools have football histories dating back to the early 1890s:

Mount Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Union_Purple_Raiders_football

Case Western Reserve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Western_Reserve_Spartans_football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on July 18, 2018, 05:35:05 AM

ADL70

66-8 in 1958? Ouch! Of course, in those days, everyone beat Mount. In the four years I was there, Mount won a total of 10 games. That's the total for the four years. Now that's a regular season.
I hope sometime in your life you watched Mount win a game - to kinda balance out your experience.
Ah well, in any case, Go Spartans. Go Raiders. And, as I often say, Go Everybody! ☠🏈
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on July 18, 2018, 06:21:24 AM
E.115

What great references you put in your post. i learned and re-learned many interesting facts on both schools. That 1913 game, in Mount's new stadium, makes the relationship between the two schools very special.
Case Western certainly is highly respected around the country and even outside the USA. A source of pride for Northeast Ohio. And yes, Kevin Burke is on the football staff. He wasn't a bad player when he was a Purple Raider. Let's see, two Gagliardi awards as Dlll's best, numerous passing achievements, etc. I'll bet he is OK as a coach.
Anyhoo! Best on the season to the Spartans. See ya in the playoffs. Great chatting with you! ☠🏈

Oh! Gave you a +k for the outstanding references in your post. Hope lots of people look at them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 20, 2018, 07:49:46 AM
Update on TMC:

http://www.nkytribune.com/2018/07/thomas-more-sports-find-temporary-sanctuary-in-american-collegiate-athletic-association-for-2018-19/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 23, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Spartans going to be wearing Nike for a long, long time:
http://athletics.case.edu/general/2017-18/releases/20180723dbz3j3
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on July 24, 2018, 01:01:01 PM
Surprising absolutely nobody, TMC announced they're going back to the NAIA after a year in the ACAA:

http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180723ni3gt6
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on August 02, 2018, 10:55:49 AM
PAC coaches media day goes online at 12:25 today
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 02, 2018, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: ITH radio on August 02, 2018, 10:55:49 AM
PAC coaches media day goes online at 12:25 today

Thanks!

Here's the live-streaming link: http://www.pacstream.net
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 02, 2018, 03:26:56 PM
Preseason Poll

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2018/7/28/headlines-pac-preseason-football-poll.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 06, 2018, 01:17:33 PM
Team Previews

https://gopresidents.com/news/2018/8/1/football-presidents-look-to-replicate-2017-success-despite-several-new-faces.aspx

http://athletics.westminster.edu/news/2018/7/26/football-2018-season-preview.aspx

http://bethanybison.com/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20180801no79v4
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 06, 2018, 03:46:57 PM
Interview with Coach Debs starts at 1:00
http://footballgameplan.com/fbgpus-talkin-ball-wthe-czar-greg-debeljak/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 07, 2018, 07:08:26 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 06, 2018, 03:46:57 PM
Interview with Coach Debs starts at 1:00
http://footballgameplan.com/fbgpus-talkin-ball-wthe-czar-greg-debeljak/

Great to see CWRU football and Coach Debs featured.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 07, 2018, 09:20:30 AM
CWRU Preview

No real surprises.  But there's a hint that a FR will have a shot at starting QB and one or two may start at DB. Punter will be Chase Witte, who will be a threat to run a fake.

And Kevin Burke will coach QBs. His former spot with RBs will be filled by Brandon McDowell, former Spartan RB, who played pro in Europe.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20180807dd724t
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference?
Post by: MUC57 on August 07, 2018, 11:05:19 AM

ADL70

Glad to see Kevin Burke will be coaching the QB's. Seems to make more sense. He wasn't a bad QB at the Mount. Oh, really! Two Gagliardi awards! Yeah, he wasn't too bad. Good luck to the Spartans this season. ☠🏈
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on August 07, 2018, 06:14:49 PM
Burke was great, but he won't be taking the snaps.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 07, 2018, 07:49:38 PM
Quote from: Pokerplayer on August 07, 2018, 06:14:49 PM
Burke was great, but he won't be taking the snaps.

It used to be a truism in MLB that superstar players made lousy managers (couldn't really identify with players without their skills).  The best managers were generally long-time benchwarmers (especially back-up catchers).  I don't know if A) this is still considered true in baseball, and B) whether it has relevance to football.  Burke's greatness at QB may or may not be a plus.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 08, 2018, 08:24:26 AM
Isn't there a difference between being a manager or head coach and a position coach?  The head guy needs to see the whole picture, while the position coach is concerned with fundamentals and improving those skills.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on August 08, 2018, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 08, 2018, 08:24:26 AM
Isn't there a difference between being a manager or head coach and a position coach?  The head guy needs to see the whole picture, while the position coach is concerned with fundamentals and improving those skills.

Yes, but a guy who came naturally to the fundamentals and skills has a hard time teaching them to someone who it doesn't come naturally to. That being said, I think any DIII guy worked pretty hard. If they were truly the incandescent natural talent that didn't need to learn as they went because they were just that naturally good, then they probably wouldn't have played DIII. So I wouldn't much worry about it in this case.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 08, 2018, 04:29:19 PM
Folks, just a reminder that Kickoff '18 goes live tomorrow! Register now if you haven't already!
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2018/06/order-kickoff-2018-now
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 08, 2018, 06:42:40 PM
Somce most tecemt posts have been about CWRU thought I'd add a little W&J perspective.

Here is the wikipedia page for Ray Ride, a legendary coach at Case:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_A._Ride#Head_football_coach

Here are the all time records for the CWRU entities from the W&J web site:


VS CaseCWRU W&J leads 18-17-1 First game in 1901
VS WRU W&J leads 13-7-0 First gane in 1896

That  is 56 meetings.

VS CMU CMU leads 32-30-6 first game in 1906.

Until CMU and CWRU returned to the PAC CWRU had not played W&J since 1985 while CMU had not played W&J since 1989. Wonder what the all time records would look like if CWRU, CMU and W&J had played during those years?

Regardless, it is great to see these long term well contested rivalries renewed.



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 09, 2018, 07:27:50 AM
I woke up this morning looking for kickoff.  Where do I go on the Web to find it?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 09, 2018, 08:13:57 AM
I don't think it's up yet.  Try back about noon.  There's a link in the dropdown menu under the "News" tab.

I'm pretty sure that there will be a announcement on the landing page once it's up.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 09, 2018, 08:50:43 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 08, 2018, 06:42:40 PM
Somce most tecemt posts have been about CWRU thought I'd add a little W&J perspective.

Here is the wikipedia page for Ray Ride, a legendary coach at Case:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_A._Ride#Head_football_coach

Here are the all time records for the CWRU entities from the W&J web site:


VS CaseCWRU W&J leads 18-17-1 First game in 1901
VS WRU W&J leads 13-7-0 First gane in 1896

That  is 56 meetings.

VS CMU CMU leads 32-30-6 first game in 1906.

Until CMU and CWRU returned to the PAC CWRU had not played W&J since 1985 while CMU had not played W&J since 1989. Wonder what the all time records would look like if CWRU, CMU and W&J had played during those years?

Regardless, it is great to see these long term well contested rivalries renewed.

Cool stuff!  Thanks for sharing. 

Another interesting W & J / CWRU rivalry note was in 1984.  This was the year W & J finally broke back into being a top football team.  The W & J football wiki page states "Led by freshman running back A.J. Pagano, the Presidents qualified for the 1984 NCAA Division III playoffs, the team's first post-season appearance since the 1922 Rose Bowl."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_%26_Jefferson_Presidents_football#Resurgence_in_Division_III_(1982%E2%80%93present)

If you look back to that 1984 season, the Presidents (8-1) had only one loss to...drumroll...an undefeated Case Western Reserve (9-0) football team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Case_Western_Reserve_Spartans_football_team)   Due to the regional structuring and only 8 teams in the college football playoff, Case Western Reserve was begrudging left out of the tournament.  Many say Case Western Reserve had as good a chance as anyone to win a national title that year if they were allowed into the tournament (1984 DIII playoffs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NCAA_Division_III_football_season#Postseason)

Also, I came across along coach from a looooong time ago with mutual W & J and CWRU connections from back in the day of early college football...who won Western Reserve;s first two OAC conference titles:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_B._Seaman
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 09, 2018, 09:05:01 AM
Thanks  +k to each of you
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 10, 2018, 07:16:46 AM
Gang,

Kickoff is up and running.  Saw it in the afternoon!  My bad!

Still surprised to see us ranked so highly in pre-season.  Maybe they'll fool me!

I'll tell ya what's amazing.  Schools like Mt. Union have 200 players in camp.  Others like Oberlin have only 55.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: sigma one on August 10, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I know that 55 is the number reported in Kickoff, and so the number that Oberlin gave as its roster size.  On the Oberlin football homepage, they list 42 on the 2018 roster.  This includes 5 returning offensive linemen, and 4/5 freshmen OL.  That's awfully skimpy to go into a season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on August 13, 2018, 07:27:04 AM
I don't know where else to put this:

91 FY's (176 total) reported to camp for TMC.  Kids from AL, OH, KY, IN, IL, LA, MI, NY, FL, GA, TN. 

There is at least one transfer who will be making an impact at WR. 

Plus Tre Tunstill is back at LB after missing all of last year - big bonus

The Saints need QB Justin Post to step up.  The entire OL returns. 

I think they are poised to make some waves in 2018:  They have a schedule to do just that. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 25, 2018, 04:13:09 PM
John Carroll hosted Case Western Reserve in preseason tune ups:

http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20180824/case-football-team-impresses-in-scrimmage-john-carroll-coach-says-his-team-average

Biggest shocker is that true freshman QB Drew Saxton is definitely getting reps with the 1st team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 25, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
this link might work better:

http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20180824/SPORTS/180829590
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 26, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 25, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
this link might work better:

http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20180824/SPORTS/180829590

Thanks.  Figured out my error, and corrected my link.  Nothing wrong with having two working links. 

Well, here we are -- WEEK #1.

It'll be fascinating to see the depth charts once this week's game preview comes out.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 26, 2018, 03:10:29 PM
The results against JCU are encouraging, but in the end, it's still just a scrimmage.

I'm sure that CWRU will do OK in the first few weeks, as the teams that they are facing don't seem particularly strong.

But I still say that a repeat conference title is a stretch.  Hopefully, they prove me wrong!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 27, 2018, 05:47:02 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/other-colleges/2018/08/24/Players-to-watch-Presidents-Athletic-Conference-Mike-Sirianni/stories/201808220001
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 28, 2018, 11:01:48 AM
It appears that FY Drew Saxton will get the start for the Spartans

https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/w/h/iy14g1as9hiys7/fb_UR_games_notes18.pdf
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 28, 2018, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 28, 2018, 11:01:48 AM
It appears that FY Drew Saxton will get the start for the Spartans

https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/w/h/iy14g1as9hiys7/fb_UR_games_notes18.pdf

:o :o :o

Not to get too far ahead, but it's fascinating to think that's most likely a 4-year QB starter for the Spartans.

On a similarly shocking note, they're bringing back the halftime field goal kick:  https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20180828efjebe
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 30, 2018, 10:10:52 PM
PAC Week #1 football report preview:

https://youtu.be/QU36hb8FJBM
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 01, 2018, 08:19:18 PM
OK.  Good 1st Half.

CWRU 28, Rochester 10

Justin Pham, Joshua Smith, and Cameron Brown all look like 1st Team All-Conference players.

This new TRUE FROSH QB is doing surprisingly well.  I realize that Rochester isn't the toughest opponent, but he appears to have adjusted well to the college game, and has a knack for running the spread.

Hopefully, the 2nd half will go well.  They say that a team's biggest improvement is between weeks one and two, and with a whole week off to work out all the kinks, maybe this team could be better than average!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 01, 2018, 09:58:29 PM
Final Score:

CWRU 38 Rochester 10

Statistically dominating performance.  Case outgained Rochester 541-248, and had 33 first downs versus only 12 for Rochester.  More impressively, Rochester could only manage ONE rushing first down.

Rochester isn't the best opponent, but to be honest, I was worried about CWRU given that we only returned four starters each way, and were starting over with a true freshman QB.

It appears, however, that Debaljak's recruiting has been good and that he's developed a true winning "culture" in the program.

They say that the biggest improvement occurs between the first and second games, and with a whole bye week to work with, there should be plenty of time to work out the kinks prior to the start of PAC play.

GO SPARTANS!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2018, 09:12:12 AM
Both Saxton and Coolidge played in the first half.  Saxton was 13-21 and Coolidge 5-6 in the half.   Each had a TD on the ground.  Saxton's runs were mostly of the scramble variety, while Coolidge's designed runs.

There were some breakdowns in pass coverage.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on September 02, 2018, 11:27:25 AM

CWRU fans

Congrats on your victory. Always a great way to start the season. I always root for the local teams. OK, Mount Union is more local than anyone else, also I'm an alumnus. Best to the Spartans on the year. I'll be following your progress from Alliance. ☠🏈
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 02, 2018, 12:57:11 PM
I didn't see the first quarter, but from what I did see, we looked good on both sides of the ball.  Maybe it was because he wears #4, but Sexton reminds me a lot of Cuda.  Also, Coolidge throws a better ball than I remembered from the limited number of times we got to see him throw last year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 02, 2018, 07:38:11 PM
Thomas More lost to N.C. Wes. With their schedule, this looks to be a brutal year for the Saints. From a very good team just 2 seasons ago, they seem to have lost their way with this transition. Over/Under on DIII wins for TMC this season? 1.5? Platteville and Muhlenberg are their only DIII home games. Hanover, St. Lawrence, E&H, St. Scholastic look the most likely for wins, but they are all road contests. I wouldn't say any of those teams will be significantly worse than N.C. Wesleyan.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 03, 2018, 03:19:33 PM
Good start for the Presidents against a team that received some preseason poll votes, and that two of the D3 staff picked to upset W&J. Balanced offense, and several key plays by the defense had to be encouraging to Coach S.

Here is the writeup from the W&J web site:

https://gopresidents.com/news/2018/9/1/football-wolf-quattrone-shine-in-no-15-w-js-37-12-win-at-st-john-fisher.aspx

Jeff - who is in Seattle enjoying grandchildren😀
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 04, 2018, 11:28:35 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 02, 2018, 07:38:11 PM
Thomas More lost to N.C. Wes. With their schedule, this looks to be a brutal year for the Saints. From a very good team just 2 seasons ago, they seem to have lost their way with this transition. Over/Under on DIII wins for TMC this season? 1.5? Platteville and Muhlenberg are their only DIII home games. Hanover, St. Lawrence, E&H, St. Scholastic look the most likely for wins, but they are all road contests. I wouldn't say any of those teams will be significantly worse than N.C. Wesleyan.

Yeah.  They appear to be very young in some spots.  I'll take the over on D3 wins, though.  I maintain if Hanover is a barn-burner this week, then you know its going to be a very long fall.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 08, 2018, 08:52:24 AM
Eight of the teams have conf games this week.  Grove City-Bethany might be the only close game. May decide who's the best of the rest.

CMU-Rochester will give us some measure how Tartans will compare to Spartans, who have an open date.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 08, 2018, 10:29:57 PM
I'm already excited for the first big PAC matchup of the year next week.  W&J vs CMU:

"When it comes to teams like Carnegie Mellon and Case Western, those are offensive powerhouses and we have to be ready for that. If the rushing yards are low and the TFLs (tackles for loss) and sack production are high, then that's important against the top players."

The strong play of W&J's defense is encouraging, especially considering one of its strongest tests of the season arrives in Carnegie Mellon Saturday.

"We're not worried about the playoffs," said W&J head coach Mike Sirianni. "We have a tough game next week against a good Carnegie Mellon team. ... Our defense has played well and we expect them to play well. We want to stop the run and make teams one-dimensional. I think that's what we've done
."

LINK: https://observer-reporter.com/sports/college_sports/w-j-makes-some-points-against-thiel/article_28644600-b3ad-11e8-9b41-1b25d97f381e.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 09, 2018, 10:46:14 AM
I'm not sure that we learned much to separate CWRU from CMU based on UofR games.  38-10 vs 31-7  Spartans had just over 100 yds more TO  Both Tartans and Spartans started slowly  Cline had a particularly poor start. He was 0-6 with an Int to start, but then completed his next thirteen in a row with 2 TDs. UofR played a different QB with similar performance. 

St Vincent outperformed expectations by making it close with Geneva.  Meanwhile Grove City, which Kickoff predicted to make the top echelon by finishing in a three-way tie for third with CMU and Westminster, disappointed by losing badly to Bethany.

Yes, E115, CMU vs W&J is the marquee game this coming Saturday.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 12, 2018, 10:24:04 AM
W&J by 10
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2018, 07:35:53 PM
The Tartans hold a 32-30-5 mark in the all-time series, one of only three Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times that holds a winning record against them.

Thomas More is also one.

Name the third....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 09:36:30 PM
Bob,

Is it Muskingum, last played in 1955, just before joining the PAC, during the Dark Ages of W&J football?

Unlikely W&J will play TMC again, so that record will not change.

Would expect if CMU and W&J continue to play that could change. Shame they did not play for such a long time.

Unlikely W&J will schedule the Muskies any time soon, but based on recent histories of the two teams if they did play W&J should prevail.

But to your point, pretty impressive record versus current DIii teams.

One other record that will not change:

W&J vs WVU: 20-12-2






Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 10:13:05 PM
Where is ExTartanPlayer?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 13, 2018, 11:43:27 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 10:13:05 PM
Where is ExTartanPlayer?

I believe he's been 'domesticated.'
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 14, 2018, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 10:13:05 PM
Where is ExTartanPlayer?

Ha! Funny, I just logged in here for the first time in many moons. My wife delivered our first child in July, a little boy who weighed 9 pounds on arrival and checked in at 15 pounds today for his two month appointment. Lineman in the making, methinks.

I followed the Tartans opener via live stats and recently watched the highlights on YouTube once posted. Rochester has not been very good lately but the Tartans took care of business after a few early turnovers en route to a 31-7 win. RB Rory Hubbard had 190 yards in his first game as the lead back after spending a few years as the second fiddle behind Sam Benger. He's a little different style runner - a little less "sudden" than Sam and a little more of a long strider, but very good speed. WR Alec O****a (note: the board automatically censors the middle four letters of this name) made a couple big catches and looks to be the lead option in the passing game this year; also look for H-back Karl Kumm to see more balls this season after coming on strong late last year. Of course QB Alex Cline provides a steady and experienced hand.

I dare say the going will be a little tougher this coming Saturday!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 14, 2018, 07:15:04 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2018, 07:35:53 PM
The Tartans hold a 32-30-5 mark in the all-time series, one of only three Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times that holds a winning record against them.

Thomas More is also one.

Name the third....

Penn State?  Pitt? .... Case Western Reserve? : )

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 14, 2018, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 10:13:05 PM
Where is ExTartanPlayer?

Ha! Funny, I just logged in here for the first time in many moons. My wife delivered our first child in July, a little boy who weighed 9 pounds on arrival and checked in at 15 pounds today for his two month appointment. Lineman in the making, methinks.

I followed the Tartans opener via live stats and recently watched the highlights on YouTube once posted. Rochester has not been very good lately but the Tartans took care of business after a few early turnovers en route to a 31-7 win. RB Rory Hubbard had 190 yards in his first game as the lead back after spending a few years as the second fiddle behind Sam Benger. He's a little different style runner - a little less "sudden" than Sam and a little more of a long strider, but very good speed. WR Alec O****a (note: the board automatically censors the middle four letters of this name) made a couple big catches and looks to be the lead option in the passing game this year; also look for H-back Karl Kumm to see more balls this season after coming on strong late last year. Of course QB Alex Cline provides a steady and experienced hand.

I dare say the going will be a little tougher this coming Saturday!

Welcome back to the trenches!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 14, 2018, 09:15:01 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 14, 2018, 12:38:39 AM

Ha! Funny, I just logged in here for the first time in many moons. My wife delivered our first child in July, a little boy who weighed 9 pounds on arrival and checked in at 15 pounds today for his two month appointment. Lineman in the making, methinks.


Congratulations! Welcome to having no free time for the next 20 years...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2018, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 09:36:30 PM
Bob,
Is it Muskingum, last played in 1955, just before joining the PAC, during the Dark Ages of W&J football?
Unlikely W&J will play TMC again, so that record will not change.
Would expect if CMU and W&J continue to play that could change. Shame they did not play for such a long time.
Unlikely W&J will schedule the Muskies any time soon, but based on recent histories of the two teams if they did play W&J should prevail.
But to your point, pretty impressive record versus current DIii teams.
One other record that will not change:
W&J vs WVU: 20-12-2
It IS Muskingum.  W&J is 6-7 vs. Muskingum.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2018, 11:10:54 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 14, 2018, 07:15:04 AM
Penn State?  Pitt? .... Case Western Reserve? : )
W&J is 2-5-2 vs. Penn State
W&J is 18-19-3 vs. Pittsburgh
W&J is 18-17-1 vs. Case-Western (which only includes games vs. Case-Western & Case Institute of Technology).
W&J is 13-7 vs. Western Reserve Institute.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 14, 2018, 08:47:11 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 14, 2018, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 10:13:05 PM
Where is ExTartanPlayer?

Ha! Funny, I just logged in here for the first time in many moons. My wife delivered our first child in July, a little boy who weighed 9 pounds on arrival and checked in at 15 pounds today for his two month appointment. Lineman in the making, methinks.


Congratulations!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 15, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2018, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2018, 09:36:30 PM
Bob,
Is it Muskingum, last played in 1955, just before joining the PAC, during the Dark Ages of W&J football?
Unlikely W&J will play TMC again, so that record will not change.
Would expect if CMU and W&J continue to play that could change. Shame they did not play for such a long time.
Unlikely W&J will schedule the Muskies any time soon, but based on recent histories of the two teams if they did play W&J should prevail.
But to your point, pretty impressive record versus current DIii teams.
One other record that will not change:
W&J vs WVU: 20-12-2
It IS Muskingum.  W&J is 6-7 vs. Muskingum.

According to W&J's site - 4-5 vs Buffalo State - that's the d3 one.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 15, 2018, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 15, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
According to W&J's site - 4-5 vs Buffalo State - that's the d3 one.
That's correct.  W&J is 4-5 vs. Buffalo State.

But my original point said "Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times"

The answer to my original question is Muskingum, who along with Thomas More and Carnegie-Mellon are the only three Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times who hold winning records vs. W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 15, 2018, 11:52:16 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 15, 2018, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 15, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
According to W&J's site - 4-5 vs Buffalo State - that's the d3 one.
That's correct.  W&J is 4-5 vs. Buffalo State.

But my original point said "Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times"

The answer to my original question is Muskingum, who along with Thomas More and Carnegie-Mellon are the only three Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times who hold winning records vs. W&J.

That's 11 times if we're talking base8.  (Case joke.)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 15, 2018, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 15, 2018, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 15, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
According to W&J's site - 4-5 vs Buffalo State - that's the d3 one.
That's correct.  W&J is 4-5 vs. Buffalo State.

But my original point said "Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times"

The answer to my original question is Muskingum, who along with Thomas More and Carnegie-Mellon are the only three Division III teams the Presidents have played more than 10 times who hold winning records vs. W&J.

My bad " Read the whole question."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 15, 2018, 02:57:26 PM
Congrats to TMC knocking off #16 UW-Platteville:

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2018/boxscores/20180915_9iq3.xml
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 15, 2018, 10:04:31 PM
From CWRU tonight:

Freshman QB Drew Saxton with 5 passing TDs.

Sophomore WR Colt Morgan with 4 receiving TDs.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20180915wsgdls

Side note: Grove City supports its football team.  Reported attendance tonight was 4,100.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2018, 08:08:21 AM
Pretty big win for Thomas More this past weekend versus Platteville. 

They have been slow starting in 2 out of their 3 games but have come roaring back on both times. 

The team is very young on defense and this bodes well for their future.  They have much of their schedule to play, obviously but I was impressed with the grit I saw on Saturday. 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 17, 2018, 10:37:05 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on September 17, 2018, 08:08:21 AM
Pretty big win for Thomas More this past weekend versus Platteville. 

They have been slow starting in 2 out of their 3 games but have come roaring back on both times. 

The team is very young on defense and this bodes well for their future.  They have much of their schedule to play, obviously but I was impressed with the grit I saw on Saturday.

Yes. A nice win. They improved a lot from game 1. Despite the schedule, if they play like they did in the second half, they will be solid again this year. One game does not make a season.... or an attempt at setting over/under win totals!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 18, 2018, 10:32:50 AM
Congrats to frosh CWRU QB for being named PAC athlete of the week:

Saxton Earns PAC & UAA Weekly Honors

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20180918fjz50g
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on September 18, 2018, 05:10:15 PM
Congrats to W&J's Nick Getz and Andrew Wolf for being named to D3Football.com's Team of the Week for defensive and offensive achievements, respectively.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 18, 2018, 05:12:09 PM
Quote from: Pokerplayer on September 18, 2018, 05:10:15 PM
Congrats to W&J's Nick Getz and Andrew Wolf for being named to D3Football.com's Team of the Week for defensive and offensive achievements, respectively.

And for coverage of W&J players named Zac, or some variation thereof:
http://www.d3football.com/columns/features/2018/washington-jefferson-zack-attack
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 20, 2018, 08:27:21 AM
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

South Fayette alum Drew Saxton off to a hot start at Case Western Reserve

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/other-colleges/2018/09/19/drew-saxton-case-western-reserve-pac-south-fayette-wpial-duquesne-football-hawaii/stories/201809190153
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 20, 2018, 12:45:24 PM
I was able to take the evening and check out CMU @ W&J on Saturday night.

A few disjointed thoughts:

- W&J offense just killed us with big plays.  This was one of those games where an early emotional swing seems to have made a huge impact...W&J lights it up in just three plays, CMU nearly answers by going 70+ yards on their first play...but then fails to convert on three plays from inside the 5 yard line before missing a chip-shot field goal.  Instead of coming away 7-7 after the first possession, it's 7-0, and three more W&J plays later it's 13-0.  On reflection, W&J didn't have any sustained drives (hell, I forgot that they actually punted twice in the first quarter) - it was all big plays (WR Wolf was very impressive; so was RB West).  I feel a little bad for CMU's Willie Richter, a player that I've loved since he was a freshman kick returner, since he probably has some regret over not-quite-scoring on that first play.  CMU coming up empty after a 73-yard gain on the first play seemed to deflate the team and put them into a funk that they wouldn't wake up from until it was too late.

- Even if the first quarter unfolds exactly the same after that, I still think a touchdown there (with no other change) would have given the game a much more competitive feel than the final score indicates.  The last 45 minutes of the game were played on even footing (note that total yards ended up W&J 501, CMU 498 - and very little that was really "garbage time" stat padding, Cline was almost at 300 passing yards in the first half).  CMU gained plenty of yards.  Just couldn't finish some promising drives.  Give us that first touchdown, and the first half feels more like two offenses trading scores in a shootout instead of the blowout that it started to feel like.

- W&J gets all the credit for smelling blood in the water and jumping early.  I've been on the right side and the wrong side of games like that.  When things are going your way early, you gotta jump on it, and they did.  They had the luxury of cruising home because they hit all those opportunities early.

- With that said, I also want to give CMU some credit for not folding.  Late in the first quarter, the way things were starting to snowball, I was afraid it was going to end up 58-7.  Instead, CMU's defense buckled down and started making stops, and the offense kept moving the ball and threatening enough that W&J couldn't totally relax until the last five minutes or so.

Congrats to the Presidents.  That offense is really, really impressive.  The loss is disappointing for CMU, but I don't think it changes the season outlook dramatically.  Gotta come back and play next week.  Home games with St. Vincent and Grove City are a chance to build some momentum; unless someone has dramatically improved, the biggest tests remaining won't come for some time, so the Tartans need to stay focused and use the next several weeks to establish themselves.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 26, 2018, 10:42:48 AM
CWRU's Saxton is #9 in d3 passing efficiency, winning the tie breaker (whatever it is - maybe taking it out another decimal) over Witt's Kennedy.  W&J's Jacob Adams is #4.

Big challenges for Spartans next two Saturdays on road at Westminster and then W&J.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 26, 2018, 12:23:03 PM
^
CWRU @ Westminster preview:
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/l/o/z99502y9grs3sn/fb_WES_game_notes18.pdf

Tough back-to-back weeks for the Spartans for sure
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 26, 2018, 05:23:31 PM
Followed the W&J CMU game as well, and ExTartanPlayer summarized it admirably.

W&J's fast start has been a factor in most of their games this year. Against GCC last week they scored three unanswered touchdowns in the first quarter:

1 play drive 66 yards to Wolf, 4 play drive 20 yards to Wolf and 7 play drive 12 yards to Cullen. As ExTartanPlayer said, that puts the opposing team back on it's heels from the getgo.

So, Coughlin/Rowse and Zubik are gone and the era of Adams (jr) and Wolf (so) has begun, augmented with a pretty good running game and a solid defense. The two deep depth chart contains a significant number of sophomores and freshmen so the games that are decided early will give them a chance to get some game experience. I notice they have a new kicker who is a transfer from DI or DII so maybe that factor of the game, which was abysmal (except for one lucky FG vs Johns Hopkins) has improved.

As the CWRU  alums here indicate, Westminster will be tough. W&J has to stay focused against Bethany. If W&J and CWRU prevail it sets up a great game the next week - two top 20 teams from the PAC facing off with the conference championship and it's automatic playoff bid probably at stake. With a cursory look I certainly did not see any glaring difference in the stats of CWRU and W&J versus the two teams they have both already played  (GCC and Thiel).

Jeff in East Tennessee

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 26, 2018, 08:54:57 PM
Nice recognition for a W&J player:

https://gopresidents.com/news/2018/9/26/football-reo-selected-as-semifinalist-for-william-v-campbell-trophy.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 26, 2018, 09:21:01 PM
And some more:

https://gopresidents.com/news/2018/9/25/w-j-places-two-on-d3football-com-team-of-the-week-once-again.aspx

Not TRYING to be obnoxious. 😀

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 27, 2018, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 26, 2018, 09:21:01 PM
And some more:

https://gopresidents.com/news/2018/9/25/w-j-places-two-on-d3football-com-team-of-the-week-once-again.aspx

Not TRYING to be obnoxious. 😀

Not obnoxious at all.

The PAC also had a CWRU player on the "D3 Team of the Week"... plus a Thomas More player:  http://www.d3football.com/awards/tow/2018/week4

To be obnoxious :) here's the CWRU guy https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2017-18/bios/henderson_ian_i5u9
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 28, 2018, 07:38:16 AM
 :D

From the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

A Division III Baker Mayfield? CWRU freshman QB makes strong first impression, too
Updated 5:31 AM; Posted 5:30 AM
By Mike Peticca

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/index.ssf/2018/09/a_division_iii_baker_mayfield.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 29, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
I love the articles about the kids on all the teams.  Keep posting them!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on September 29, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on September 29, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
I love the articles about the kids on all the teams.  Keep posting them!

This, my friends, is what D3football is all about!!
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on September 29, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
I love the articles about the kids on all the teams.  Keep posting them!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 29, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: Pokerplayer on September 29, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: SpartanMom_2016 on September 29, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
I love the articles about the kids on all the teams.  Keep posting them!

This, my friends, is what D3football is all about!!

^ Agreed!!

Actually, found another one on the freshman QB from this week:  https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-football-may-have-its-next-great-qb-in-freshman/article_6326e20a-c269-11e8-821b-ab53d27702e8.html

And here's the CWRU student newspaper recap.  I love the author interviews a band member.  (Last week she interviewed the student section for her quotes):

"The band's faces were so tired by the end of the game. The team scored so many touchdowns that we played the fight song like, a billion times," said Jess Dickson, a third-year saxophone player in the Spartan Marching Band.

http://observer.case.edu/spartan-football-keeps-on-winning/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 29, 2018, 04:43:15 PM
W&J holds on to beat Bethany 27-20. Not very pretty, but it is a win.

Looking forward to the CWRU Westminster game this evening.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 29, 2018, 05:57:50 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 29, 2018, 04:43:15 PM
W&J holds on to beat Bethany 27-20. Not very pretty, but it is a win.

Looking forward to the CWRU Westminster game this evening.

Hopefully Spartans don't under-perform as Tartans and Prez did.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on September 29, 2018, 06:01:12 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 29, 2018, 05:57:50 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 29, 2018, 04:43:15 PM
W&J holds on to beat Bethany 27-20. Not very pretty, but it is a win.

Looking forward to the CWRU Westminster game this evening.

Hopefully Spartans don't under-perform as Tartans and Prez did.

Apparently Westminster is a difficult place to play as a road team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 29, 2018, 08:14:40 PM
Apparently it's also a difficult place to broadcast a game online.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 29, 2018, 09:36:25 PM
Case wins with 21 unanswered 2nd half points, 35-14 over Westminster. 

A Case interception on Westminster's final drive sealed the win.

Now...........the showdown with W&J awaits!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 29, 2018, 09:43:57 PM
Game much closer than score.  Westminster played hard.  They totally stuffed the Spartans' running game for most of the game and pressured Saxton the whole time.  They shot themselves in the foot with penalties. The score was 21-14 until 5:25 left in the game.

W&J may have overlooked Bethany with eyes on next week. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 29, 2018, 10:02:15 PM
I finally got the stream to work on the last play of the 3rd quarter.  (Before that it would restart from the Coming Up title screen every time I reloaded the page.). But I followed the Live Stats most of the game.  It seemed like Case had a hard time moving the ball until the last drive of the first half and the running game was non-existent.  The 2nd half was much better and they ended up with 460 yards of offense.

I couldn't be more impressed with the play of true Freshman QB Sexton.  He faced a lot of pressure today in a high stakes game and really kept his composure.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 29, 2018, 10:54:37 PM
In the four games Spartans have allowed only 27 second half points.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 29, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
First time Case Western Reserve was held under 500 total yards.

Offense ended the game with 460 total yards.

By the way, HUGE upset in Pittsburgh.  Grove City defeats Carnegie Mellon 31-21.  What was the storyline in that game??

Also, the poor showing of W & J against Bethany makes me nervous. Typically the next week after a loss or poor showing tends to be a redemption type of week... who just so happens to be Case Western Reserve.

The battle to the PAC undefeated looms..!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 03, 2018, 11:49:31 AM
Thanks Joe!

Case finally gets crack at Presidents
By Joe Sager
Posted: Oct 02, 2018

http://www.d3football.com/columns/features/2018/case-finally-crack-at-unseating-presidents
Title: W&J vs CWRU
Post by: The Mole on October 04, 2018, 09:14:57 AM
Nice write up. Glad they finally get to play!

Who wins?

I say W&J 31 CWRU 17. Presidents get a late TD to pull away, but its not a cakewalk

Quote from: E.115 on October 03, 2018, 11:49:31 AM
Thanks Joe!

Case finally gets crack at Presidents
By Joe Sager
Posted: Oct 02, 2018

http://www.d3football.com/columns/features/2018/case-finally-crack-at-unseating-presidents
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
I think this game all comes down to this:

W&J's defense vs. CWRU freshman QB Drew Saxton.
If, as The Mole predicts, W&J holds Case-Western to 17, the Presidents win.

If Saxton, a player the Presidents had a legitimate shot at getting coming out of South Fayette, can stay upright, the Spartans can win the game.
If the W&J defense can bump him, knock him down, sack him a few times, causing him to speed up the plays, the Presidents will win the game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 12:30:24 AM
One might surmise that Adams being at W&J and having started a couple of games influenced Saxton's decision to go to CWRU. Interestingly Adams' hometown is closer to CWRU than to W&J and the reverse is true for Saxton.

Should W&J fans be concerned that they under performed in a 27-20 win over Bethany?  Two stats stand out to me: Adams was sacked five times and even adding back the -33 from the sacks they only rushed for 94 yards.

I don't think that we can gain much from the results against the two common opponents, Thiel and Grove City, blowouts for each.  CWRU has a significant win over Westminster 35-14, a team which lost to Wittenberg, 34-21.  W&J's only quality win was 36-14 over CMU, but that win looks less impressive after CMU lost to Grove City, 31-21.

Westminster did stifle Spartans' running game pretty well holding them to 130 yds, 3.6/att.  Saxton though threw for 330 yds and four TDs.

Massey gives CWRU 67% chance of win with 34-28 most likely result.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 05, 2018, 02:58:55 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 12:30:24 AM
Massey gives CWRU 67% chance of win with 34-28 most likely result.

How about we just make it a 35-28 win for old times sake.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 05, 2018, 07:36:03 AM
The biggest x-factor for me is the Case Western Reserve's defense.  Coach Debeljak is an offensive mind, and knows how to gameplan to move the ball.  There has been no mention W&J has a nation-leading receiver, plus very impressive QB and RB stats:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/washjeff.sidearmsports.com/documents/2018/10/4/2018gamenotesCWRU.pdf

Sure CWRU has the size and experience on the defensive line, but how the rest of the young defense responds will decide the game IMO.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 07:46:47 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 05, 2018, 02:58:55 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 12:30:24 AM
Massey gives CWRU 67% chance of win with 34-28 most likely result.

How about we just make it a 35-28 win for old times sake.

That does have a familiar ring to it!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 08:02:05 AM
Bob Gregg talks about W&J pressuring Saxton.  On of the most impressive things to me about him is how he responds to pressure.  He has completed many passes with rushers bearing down on him and he has the maneuverability to escape pressure and make the big play.

I know W&J has a stud guy in Reo at RG, but those sacks by Bethany make one wonder if the rest of the line is suspect or that Adams might not be that mobile. He doesn't appear to be a running threat.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 05, 2018, 09:26:40 AM
While I didn't see the Bethany game (was on DL with shoulder surgery), it was Bethany.  It is that one game every year that W&J really struggles with.  Almost every team has one--a team that really shouldn't be a threat (talent wise), and yet, there they are.  W&J doesn't play well against the Bison on a regular basis.  I put nothing extra in that W other than a 1 in the W column instead of the L column.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 01:26:40 PM
Not quite every year, more like every other year or so.

Hansen gives W&J a slight edge.  53% chance of win 32-30.7
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 05, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
How does that work?  Case is down 32-30 in the final seconds and they're only able to muster a tenth of a touchdown?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 05, 2018, 02:51:08 PM
BUMP:

Reposting some interesting history from the preseason discussion:

Quote from: E.115 on August 09, 2018, 08:50:43 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 08, 2018, 06:42:40 PM
Somce most tecemt posts have been about CWRU thought I'd add a little W&J perspective.

Here is the wikipedia page for Ray Ride, a legendary coach at Case:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_A._Ride#Head_football_coach

Here are the all time records for the CWRU entities from the W&J web site:


VS CaseCWRU W&J leads 18-17-1 First game in 1901
VS WRU W&J leads 13-7-0 First gane in 1896

That  is 56 meetings.

VS CMU CMU leads 32-30-6 first game in 1906.

Until CMU and CWRU returned to the PAC CWRU had not played W&J since 1985 while CMU had not played W&J since 1989. Wonder what the all time records would look like if CWRU, CMU and W&J had played during those years?

Regardless, it is great to see these long term well contested rivalries renewed.

Cool stuff!  Thanks for sharing. 

Another interesting W & J / CWRU rivalry note was in 1984.  This was the year W & J finally broke back into being a top football team.  The W & J football wiki page states "Led by freshman running back A.J. Pagano, the Presidents qualified for the 1984 NCAA Division III playoffs, the team's first post-season appearance since the 1922 Rose Bowl."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_%26_Jefferson_Presidents_football#Resurgence_in_Division_III_(1982%E2%80%93present)

If you look back to that 1984 season, the Presidents (8-1) had only one loss to...drumroll...an undefeated Case Western Reserve (9-0) football team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Case_Western_Reserve_Spartans_football_team)   Due to the regional structuring and only 8 teams in the college football playoff, Case Western Reserve was begrudging left out of the tournament.  Many say Case Western Reserve had as good a chance as anyone to win a national title that year if they were allowed into the tournament (1984 DIII playoffs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NCAA_Division_III_football_season#Postseason)

Also, I came across along coach from a looooong time ago with mutual W & J and CWRU connections from back in the day of early college football...who won Western Reserve;s first two OAC conference titles:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_B._Seaman
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 05, 2018, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 05, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
How does that work?  Case is down 32-30 in the final seconds and they're only able to muster a tenth of a touchdown?

I think that Hansen would explain that is preciction is an average of likely outcomes.  Not that I can speak for him.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 05, 2018, 04:12:39 PM
I was a student manager W&J football team for the 1966 and 67 seasons

In 1966 we were 1-5 with the lone win coming versus Thiel. We lost to Carnegie Tech 33-6, did not play Case or WRU.

In 1967 we were 1-6 with the lone win coming versus Western Reserve 13-0. We lost to Carnegie-Mellon (note name change) 66-16 and did not play Case.

So, W&J was 2-11 overall and 1-2 versus Case/WRU/CMU under my "management."

This was right in the middle of the Dark Age of W&J football which lasted almost without interruption from 1945 until that breakout year of 1984 described be E.115. Since then W&J has had nothing but winning seasons and only three head coaches.

One year while at W&J I shared an apartment with an aspiring dental student. I remember watching him "carve the chalk" which was part of the application process. He went on to WRU for dental school, joined the faculty and was eventually Dean of the CWRU School of Dentistry and served as acting Provost during a relatively recent leadership "transition" at the University. Nothing to do with football, but another interesting relationship between the two schools.

I'll be streaming and listening to the melodious play by play of Bob Gregg tomorrow!

Jeff in Knoxville, TN where we have no college football.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 06, 2018, 12:45:12 PM
Here we go again with the video feed.  It can't just be me, right?  Every time I load the video it starts over at 34:56 left in pregame, and pressing live just pauses the video, when you press play, it starts over again.  This seems to be a problem with any of the videos on the PAC DN.  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 06, 2018, 12:53:39 PM
Playing ok for me so far
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 06, 2018, 12:58:52 PM
I tried on my computer and it seems to work.  It doesn't work on my phone, tablet, or Fire TV.  Guess it's time to pull the laptop out.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 06, 2018, 01:12:05 PM
Yep.  Working fine for me via a desktop. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 06, 2018, 02:59:25 PM
Weird to hear the announcers calling W&J the J
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 06, 2018, 03:51:35 PM
The J is going to get the W.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 06, 2018, 04:29:00 PM
Great win by W&J.

CWRU had its chances, but shot itself in the foot with turnovers.

Let's hope that we can run the table the rest of the way, and maybe get an at-large bid.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 06, 2018, 04:43:04 PM
Tough loss.  75 yd shovel pass and 98 yd rush against an over-aggressive D in  4th quarter were the difference. Two one-play TD 'drives'. Gave the J great field position with poor KO coverage. DB took ball out of receivers hands on one of the two ints Saxton had.  Lots of injuries on both sides, but CWRU's leading receiver Justin Phan was injured in first half and never returned.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
ADL, not THE J, just J

Just enough pressure on Saxton, two sack/fumbles, two INT (both great plays by DBs).

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 06, 2018, 05:16:19 PM
Exciting game. One of what I hope will be many as this great rivalry (and another great rivalry - CMU) continues. Good luck to CWRU the rest of the way.

Saxton is clearly the real deal and it looks like CWRU is set at quarterback for the next 4 years unless he decides to revisit his college choice and transfer to W&J :D :D!

Weird to hear the announcers calling W&J the J

W&J has several nicknames. Students often call it Dub J. J has been a nickname for the school for a long time. When I was there we were referred to by locals a "J men." So Bob and Mark saying something like "the J offense" would be familiar to the denizens of WashPA as well as J students.

Oh, and the University of Tennessee football team did not lose today since they are off, and have another week to get ready for Auburn!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2018, 07:52:42 PM
WOW---this conference's wheels just fell off the bus, rolled up the hill and came back down, smashing through the windshield!!!!

St. Vincent 35, Thiel 13.  No surprise at all.
Bethany 26, Geneva 20.  Fully expected that.

Then, you have:
Waynesburg 24, Carnegie-Mellon 21.  Really?
Grove City 36, Westminster 33.  Are you KIDDING me?

Some schools are just at the halfway mark of the year, and everybody left on W&J's schedule already has TWO conference losses.  That is NOT a good thing for the PAC, it is not a good thing for Case-Western.  The President can now afford, to use Coach Luckhardt's term, to trip over one dead body and only hurt their seeding, not their qualification....W&J has to beat three of Geneva (2-3), Westminster (3-3), St. Vincent (1-4) and Waynesburg (3-3) and the AQ is theirs...And that's the look with FIVE weeks left in the season....UNREAL!




Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 06, 2018, 08:28:46 PM
The W & J and CWRU game lived up to the hype.  I could watch those teams battle again and again.

Hats off the W & J...and now you control your own destiny.

Both Gregg's and my own came true:

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 04, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
If Saxton, a player the Presidents had a legitimate shot at getting coming out of South Fayette, can stay upright, the Spartans can win the game.
If the W&J defense can bump him, knock him down, sack him a few times, causing him to speed up the plays, the Presidents will win the game.

Saxton was pressured, sacked multiple times...forcing him to turnover the ball. 

Quote from: E.115 on October 05, 2018, 07:36:03 AM
The biggest x-factor for me is the Case Western Reserve's defense.  Coach Debeljak is an offensive mind, and knows how to gameplan to move the ball.  There has been no mention W&J has a nation-leading receiver, plus very impressive QB and RB stats:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/washjeff.sidearmsports.com/documents/2018/10/4/2018gamenotesCWRU.pdf

Sure CWRU has the size and experience on the defensive line, but how the rest of the young defense responds will decide the game IMO.

W & J's playmakers (WEST) on the game with the 75-yard reception and that incredible 98-yard run.   ...The CWRI defense with two breakdowns that essentially sealed the game.


Debeljak's offense was able to move the ball (523 Total yards vs 505 total yards) and pick up a ton of first downs (33 vs 25).  Ultimately the turnovers (4 vs 2) and the big plays made the difference in the game.

Exciting it ended with an onside kick attempt.  Overall great battle.  Good luck to the Presidents.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2018, 10:31:55 AM
Just one correction, E.115. 
.
Turnovers were 4-0.  W&J did not turn the ball over (except on downs at the CWRU 8)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 07, 2018, 12:07:46 PM
The turning point of the game was actually a couple of successive events.  First, with Case up 14-7 and driving, it looked like they were about to go up 21-7 when Saxton was strip sacked.  Then it looked like the Case defense quickly stopped W&J, forcing them into a 4th and 14.  A bad snap on the punt forced the punter to tuck it and run, and he did, for a first down which eventually led to a TD.  A FG later and W&J took the lead for good.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 07, 2018, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2018, 10:31:55 AM
Just one correction, E.115. 
.
Turnovers were 4-0.  W&J did not turn the ball over (except on downs at the CWRU 8)

Well that makes more sense.  I didn't see any TOs (but missed a few portions of the 3rd quarter) ...then misread the boxscore.

Rough +/- for the Spartans caused by the Presidents D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 07, 2018, 05:13:40 PM
Sometimes they're called turnovers; sometimes take-aways.  Those were four take-aways, great plays by the J D.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 07, 2018, 07:39:15 PM
I just watched the end zone camera footage of the 98-yard run by West.

HUGE hole, opened by LT Phillip Bobich, LG Jarrod Webb, and a great kickout block by TE/WR Jake Cullen.
Untouched, two steps beyond the line of scrimmage and West was gone.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: evacuee on October 09, 2018, 10:57:12 AM
Is there no video available on the web of Jordan West vs. CWRU?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2018, 12:16:10 PM
highlights: https://gopresidents.com/news/2018/10/6/football-presidents-go-west-to-defeat-no-16-case-western-reserve-44-36.aspx

full game archive: http://pacathletics.org/watch/default.aspx?Archive=143&path=wj
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 10, 2018, 10:04:07 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2018, 07:52:42 PM
WOW---this conference's wheels just fell off the bus, rolled up the hill and came back down, smashing through the windshield!!!!

St. Vincent 35, Thiel 13.  No surprise at all.
Bethany 26, Geneva 20.  Fully expected that.

Then, you have:
Waynesburg 24, Carnegie-Mellon 21.  Really?
Grove City 36, Westminster 33.  Are you KIDDING me?

Some schools are just at the halfway mark of the year, and everybody left on W&J's schedule already has TWO conference losses.  That is NOT a good thing for the PAC, it is not a good thing for Case-Western.  The President can now afford, to use Coach Luckhardt's term, to trip over one dead body and only hurt their seeding, not their qualification....W&J has to beat three of Geneva (2-3), Westminster (3-3), St. Vincent (1-4) and Waynesburg (3-3) and the AQ is theirs...And that's the look with FIVE weeks left in the season....UNREAL!

Not sure it is bad for PAC.  Good for GC and Waynesburg!  What will hurt CWRU's Pool C chance and W&J's seeding are Rochester and Fisher.  In conference contribition to SoS hovers at around .500, but Rochester and Fisher will drag CWRU and W&J's SoS down.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 10, 2018, 11:03:37 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 10, 2018, 10:04:07 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2018, 07:52:42 PM
WOW---this conference's wheels just fell off the bus, rolled up the hill and came back down, smashing through the windshield!!!!

St. Vincent 35, Thiel 13.  No surprise at all.
Bethany 26, Geneva 20.  Fully expected that.

Then, you have:
Waynesburg 24, Carnegie-Mellon 21.  Really?
Grove City 36, Westminster 33.  Are you KIDDING me?

Some schools are just at the halfway mark of the year, and everybody left on W&J's schedule already has TWO conference losses.  That is NOT a good thing for the PAC, it is not a good thing for Case-Western.  The President can now afford, to use Coach Luckhardt's term, to trip over one dead body and only hurt their seeding, not their qualification....W&J has to beat three of Geneva (2-3), Westminster (3-3), St. Vincent (1-4) and Waynesburg (3-3) and the AQ is theirs...And that's the look with FIVE weeks left in the season....UNREAL!

Not sure it is bad for PAC.  Good for GC and Waynesburg!  What will hurt CWRU's Pool C chance and W&J's seeding are Rochester and Fisher.  In conference contribition to SoS hovers at around .500, but Rochester and Fisher will drag CWRU and W&J's SoS down.

I think the Pool A Qualifier is in good shape, since the PAC performed well in prior year. My concern is CWRU SOS, Rochester may not win another game this year. I believe St. John Fisher will have a two or 3 at seasons end. A one loss CWRU will be behind a one-loss Muhlenberg if Johns Hopkins win out and Centre (wins over a good Hanover team Maryville, which may win the USAC), the best bet is for Muhlenberg to win out and Centre take a 2nd loss, even then, you have the other regions to consider.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 10, 2018, 11:34:48 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on October 10, 2018, 11:03:37 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 10, 2018, 10:04:07 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2018, 07:52:42 PM
WOW---this conference's wheels just fell off the bus, rolled up the hill and came back down, smashing through the windshield!!!!

St. Vincent 35, Thiel 13.  No surprise at all.
Bethany 26, Geneva 20.  Fully expected that.

Then, you have:
Waynesburg 24, Carnegie-Mellon 21.  Really?
Grove City 36, Westminster 33.  Are you KIDDING me?

Some schools are just at the halfway mark of the year, and everybody left on W&J's schedule already has TWO conference losses.  That is NOT a good thing for the PAC, it is not a good thing for Case-Western.  The President can now afford, to use Coach Luckhardt's term, to trip over one dead body and only hurt their seeding, not their qualification....W&J has to beat three of Geneva (2-3), Westminster (3-3), St. Vincent (1-4) and Waynesburg (3-3) and the AQ is theirs...And that's the look with FIVE weeks left in the season....UNREAL!

Not sure it is bad for PAC.  Good for GC and Waynesburg!  What will hurt CWRU's Pool C chance and W&J's seeding are Rochester and Fisher.  In conference contribition to SoS hovers at around .500, but Rochester and Fisher will drag CWRU and W&J's SoS down.

I think the Pool A Qualifier is in good shape, since the PAC performed well in prior year. My concern is CWRU SOS, Rochester may not win another game this year. I believe St. John Fisher will have a two or 3 at seasons end. A one loss CWRU will be behind a one-loss Muhlenberg if Johns Hopkins win out and Centre (wins over a good Hanover team Maryville, which may win the USAC), the best bet is for Muhlenberg to win out and Centre take a 2nd loss, even then, you have the other regions to consider.

I'm not so sure Muhlenberg wins out.  In conference they still have JHU (on the road) and also a trip to Kentucky this week.  CWRU should root for two losses instead for Muhlenberg.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 10, 2018, 11:48:35 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 10, 2018, 11:34:48 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on October 10, 2018, 11:03:37 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 10, 2018, 10:04:07 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2018, 07:52:42 PM
WOW---this conference's wheels just fell off the bus, rolled up the hill and came back down, smashing through the windshield!!!!

St. Vincent 35, Thiel 13.  No surprise at all.
Bethany 26, Geneva 20.  Fully expected that.

Then, you have:
Waynesburg 24, Carnegie-Mellon 21.  Really?
Grove City 36, Westminster 33.  Are you KIDDING me?

Some schools are just at the halfway mark of the year, and everybody left on W&J's schedule already has TWO conference losses.  That is NOT a good thing for the PAC, it is not a good thing for Case-Western.  The President can now afford, to use Coach Luckhardt's term, to trip over one dead body and only hurt their seeding, not their qualification....W&J has to beat three of Geneva (2-3), Westminster (3-3), St. Vincent (1-4) and Waynesburg (3-3) and the AQ is theirs...And that's the look with FIVE weeks left in the season....UNREAL!

Not sure it is bad for PAC.  Good for GC and Waynesburg!  What will hurt CWRU's Pool C chance and W&J's seeding are Rochester and Fisher.  In conference contribition to SoS hovers at around .500, but Rochester and Fisher will drag CWRU and W&J's SoS down.

I think the Pool A Qualifier is in good shape, since the PAC performed well in prior year. My concern is CWRU SOS, Rochester may not win another game this year. I believe St. John Fisher will have a two or 3 at seasons end. A one loss CWRU will be behind a one-loss Muhlenberg if Johns Hopkins win out and Centre (wins over a good Hanover team Maryville, which may win the USAC), the best bet is for Muhlenberg to win out and Centre take a 2nd loss, even then, you have the other regions to consider.

I'm not so sure Muhlenberg wins out.  In conference they still have JHU (on the road) and also a trip to Kentucky this week.  CWRU should root for two losses instead for Muhlenberg.

You are right, that would put them higher in the RR and on the table earlier.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on October 11, 2018, 04:42:59 PM
Just want to say that Case Western posters showed a lot of class in their comments following last Saturday's game. Glad to have you back in the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 12, 2018, 11:09:33 AM
That's Case Western Reserve
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 12, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
Quote from: Pokerplayer on October 11, 2018, 04:42:59 PM
Just want to say that Case Western posters showed a lot of class in their comments following last Saturday's game. Glad to have you back in on the PAC schedule.

edit
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2018, 06:40:23 PM
What A Game!  W&J scores in the last minute to beat Geneva 50-43!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 13, 2018, 07:21:15 PM
W&J dominated the stats but had to make that last score to win. They did what they had to do against Bethany and Geneva, hope they can do the same next week against Westminster.  They can't play like this in the playoffs if they get there.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 13, 2018, 08:27:29 PM
The young CWRU team puts up some noteworthy individual stats today:

1) WR Colt Morgan
- 281 receiving yards (most by any player--and at any NCAA level--this year)
- 15 receptions (ties CWRU single game record)
- Had his 16th receiving TD this season (most in CWRU history)
2) DE Cameron Brown
- 4.5 sacks (most in a game for a Division III player this season)
3) LB Brian Victor
- 3 sacks
- 8 Tackles
4) QB Drew Saxton had 348 passing yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs .... in 2.5 quarters! (2nd string QB in by middle of 3rd qtr)

I know the opponent was not a top member of the PAC, but national/school records being broken are definitely newsworthy.


Morgan Hits Multiple Receiving Records; #21 CWRU Tops Saint Vincent 37-7 on Homecoming

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20181013ow0woz
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 14, 2018, 12:10:50 AM
Not meaning any disrespect to Colt Morgan (congratulations on an all-divisions NCAA high for the year!), but it was probably only the second best performance by a WR today: SJU's Will Gillach had 256 yards against St. Thomas (a vastly tougher foe than St. Vincent).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 14, 2018, 12:44:00 AM
Gotta think that each would be a lock for Team of the Week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on October 14, 2018, 06:32:40 AM

E.115

Nice numbers by CWRU yesterday. As you mentioned, St. Vincent is not a top team. I don't care if you put up those numbers against Sister Margaret's School for Wayward Boys. Those are great stats against anybody. Keep it going, Spartans! ☠🏈
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mustang on October 14, 2018, 11:20:43 AM
Was sorry to see the St. Vincent QB get injured. He looks to be a talented kid and hopefully it's not serious.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 14, 2018, 10:13:49 PM
Quote from: mustang on October 14, 2018, 11:20:43 AM
Was sorry to see the St. Vincent QB get injured. He looks to be a talented kid and hopefully it's not serious.

Agreed. Hopefully he recovers quickly.  He looks like he'd going to be a great team leader.


Quote from: MUC57 on October 14, 2018, 06:32:40 AM

E.115

Nice numbers by CWRU yesterday. As you mentioned, St. Vincent is not a top team. I don't care if you put up those numbers against Sister Margaret's School for Wayward Boys. Those are great stats against anybody. Keep it going, Spartans! ☠🏈

Thanks MUC57.  And I agree.  It's impressive to put up those type of numbers no matter the competition (and I love your example :) ) Not to mention, there have been countless teams across all divisions playing in various disparities of competition...and I bet CWRU vs St. Vincent isn't anywhere near the biggest margin of talent difference.


Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 14, 2018, 12:10:50 AM
Not meaning any disrespect to Colt Morgan (congratulations on an all-divisions NCAA high for the year!), but it was probably only the second best performance by a WR today: SJU's Will Gillach had 256 yards against St. Thomas (a vastly tougher foe than St. Vincent).

I don't think Morgan would feel any disrespect if Gillach is picked over him for any weekly awards.  St. T is certainly a top defensive power compared to St. V.

Although one more thing to note for Colt Morgan -- he played only three quarters, as the first team was pulled during the third quarter.

Mindboggling to realize he averaged 100 yards and 1 touchdown PER QUARTER!! (Ironically, he literally had 200 yards and 2 TDs at halftime)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 15, 2018, 01:52:46 PM
Good news there are two WRs on Team of the Week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 15, 2018, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 15, 2018, 01:52:46 PM
Good news there are two WRs on Team of the Week.

don't jinx it -- I really hope he's on it. 

:)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 16, 2018, 07:45:55 AM
Vote for the PAC in WR Colt Morgan, y'all

https://herosports.com/d3-football/vote-offensive-hero-of-the-week-2018-10-14-rsrs
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 16, 2018, 08:43:15 AM
Four PAC players featured on this week's D3 Team of the Week:

http://www.d3football.com/awards/tow/2018/week7

QB Jacob Adams, Jr., Washington & Jefferson
WR Colt Morgan, So., Case Western Reserve
DE Cameron Brown, Sr., Case Western Reserve
LB Garrett Bishop, Jr., Westminster (Pa.)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 20, 2018, 05:12:18 PM
Confusion reigns in the PAC again as Westminster beats W&J 27-20.  Spartans win out they will be co-champs again.  But if W&J wins out they get the AQ.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on October 20, 2018, 05:17:22 PM
Might be time for W&J to re-evaluate some things. Last three games before Westminster, margin of victory was 7 (Bethany); 8 (CRWU); and 7 (Geneva) And then its a road trip to Westminster. W&J defeats Grove City 62-10. Grove  City defeats Westminster, 36-33. and Westminster defeats Presidents 27-20. Is this on "Any given Saturday" crap? If W&J wins out, which they should, they win the AQ in the PAC. But with that one loss, they will probably be on the road in first round playoffs. They better hope NCAA committee doesn't send them to Brockport. Yep, time to re-evaluate.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: The Mole on October 20, 2018, 06:42:37 PM
Just curious, what do they specifically re-evaluate after 8 games? Rowan beat Wesley today. Mayhem reigns. Barring a total shock they will be 9-1 and get the Pool A. I do not see a need to push the panic button. Maybe the PAC top to bottom has improved? Beinh on the road somewhere like Frostburg is a real possibility.

Quote from: Pokerplayer on October 20, 2018, 05:17:22 PM
Might be time for W&J to re-evaluate some things. Lagt three games before Westminster, margin of victory was 7 (Bethany); 8 (CRWU); and 7 (Geneva) And then its a road trip to Westminster. W&J defeats Grove City 62-10. Grove  City defeats Westminster, 36-33. and Westminster defeats Presidents 27-20. Is this on "Any given Saturday" crap? If W&J wins out, which they should, they win the AQ in the PAC. But with that one loss, they will probably be on the road in first round playoffs. They better hope NCAA committee doesn't send them to Brockport. Yep, time to re-evaluate.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 20, 2018, 09:01:29 PM
W&J is the best in the PAC.  And the PAC is slightly improved top-to-bottom than the old days.
Westminster played a great defensive game today, and W&J panicked.
Adams seemed to play more afraid of last year's Westminster's six sacks.

Despite my comment that the W&J defense couldn't get off the field, they actually did a pretty good job today, holding Westminster to about 250 yards.  But long, time-consuming drives, including a 15-play, 8+ minute drive just sucked the life out, and put more pressure on the offense.
Defense wins championships, but sometimes, like last week vs. Geneva, like this week vs. Westminster, the OFFENSE has to win a game.  Last week, they did.  This week, they didn't.

No need to panic, no need to chuck it all and line up in the jumbo package, no need to eschew the run game altogether.
Get better, get tougher, get more exact, and play the game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 21, 2018, 12:23:45 AM
Three weeks ago I would have given W&J a slight edge, but the last two weeks make me believe that CWRU would win a series between the two.  W&J's win over CWRU was because of some big plays.  Take them away and I feel CWRU has the advantage.

Even before today's games Massey agrees with me.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
ADL, I would agree with you on that, and I would have coming into the meeting between W&J & CWRU.  But this ain't baseball. And "big plays" are a huge part of the game.

Yesterday's game at Westminster was not a surprise to me, not in the least.  In many ways, I think the seeds for it were sown in the bus wreck that was the PAC a couple weeks back, giving W&J basically a two-game lead on the entire field.  Yesterday's game, in the short term (making the playoffs), meant so much more to Westminster than it did to W&J.  Literally, heading into the game, W&J was at the foul line under the old NBA rules:  "three to make two".

Having said that, the Titans' defense won the game for Westminster, and the Presidents' special teams lost the game for W&J.

The special teams issues were many, and they've been around nearly the entire season:

1)  Bad punt snap.  This one went over Sarver's head and there was nothing he could do about it. And the next one skittered back to him.  Last week, a skittering snap led to Sarver running for his life and picking up a first down.

2)  Bad PAT/FG snaps.  I can't tell you how many times Swoope has had to reach up or back to save a bad snap.  The kicker, whichever one it is at the time, simply can not ignore what he sees and carry through.  That has led, in some measure, to the struggles that Napotnik & Garibay have had.  It's not ALL on the snap but that's where it all starts.  And if the first one's bad, and the second one's bad, how much confidence can you have in your run-up routine that that third one's gonna be good?

3)  Bad kickoffs....out of bounds, short, etc.  Yesterday, following an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty after a W&J PAT, the Presidents were kicking off from the 50 yard line.  Napotnik just booms it into the endzone, wasting the 15-yard penalty.  With the new Fair Catch rule this year, you can't just kick it high and cover it, or the FC puts the ball at the 25 anyway.  Why not bounce the KO down the field and go cover it, I might add, much like what Westminster did on a regular KO, pinning the Presidents shy of the 20?  This point at this particular kick, isn't on Napotnik.  This is a coaching decision.  And I don't understand it.

4)  Bad kickoff coverage...far too often, recently, teams had had 35, 40, 50 yard kickoff returns, and not really because the kicks weren't high enough to get down to cover.  They just haven't stayed in lanes, made the tackles.  And it repeatedly gives the other team great field position.

THESE are the items that need immediate and decisive re-evaluation.  THESE are the items that are going to lead the Presidents to either not making the NCAA or making a very early exit if they do.

The offense, particularly the O-line and QB Adams, just need to toughen a bit, and runs the offense.
The defense needs to play like it did yesterday, but turn the level up just a notch--take the penalties out, finish the tackles that you have, intercept the ball when it's there, not just tip it.

The Presidents have two weeks to think about this one.  And that's not typically a good thing for the team on the back end of the break.  W&J travels to St. Vincent on Nov. 3, then visits Waynesburg on Nov. 10.  The PAC title, the conference's AQ, both still firmly within the Presidents' grasp.  Now, they just need to sharpen the sword.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 21, 2018, 10:57:42 AM
Big plays/bad plays  both part of the game.

head to head and common opponents not blow outs (Westminster and Geneva)  CWRU  98-72  +26  W&J   114-106   +8
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 21, 2018, 11:46:22 PM
d3football Top25

W&J    116
CWRU 115
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 22, 2018, 03:01:52 PM
I don't think anyone would argue that any of these second-level results should cause one to say that W&J doesn't "deserve" the PAC championship.  They got done what they needed to do against CWRU.  However, I think we can definitely argue Bob's statement that W&J is the "best team in the PAC".  I actually don't believe that they are.  If CWRU handles Bethany as I expect them to, I would think that the aberration was the WJU/CWRU game, not CWRU/Westminster, CWRU/Geneva, CWRU/Bethany, WJU/Westminster, WJU/Geneva, and WJU/Bethany.

WJU is a good team, and as we saw, clearly has the ability to beat CWRU.  But I still believe on the whole that CWRU is a better team this year and would beat WJU 7 times out of 10.

As ADL70 mentioned, Massey agrees with this assessment.  They give CWRU a 57% chance of winning a game on WJU's field right now, a 78% chance of winning at home, and a 69% chance of winning on a neutral field.

Hopefully CWRU and WJU meet in the playoffs and we get a chance to see how it plays out.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 22, 2018, 03:01:52 PM
I don't think anyone would argue that any of these second-level results should cause one to say that W&J doesn't "deserve" the PAC championship.  They got done what they needed to do against CWRU.  However, I think we can definitely argue Bob's statement that W&J is the "best team in the PAC".  I actually don't believe that they are.  If CWRU handles Bethany as I expect them to, I would think that the aberration was the WJU/CWRU game, not CWRU/Westminster, CWRU/Geneva, CWRU/Bethany, WJU/Westminster, WJU/Geneva, and WJU/Bethany.

WJU is a good team, and as we saw, clearly has the ability to beat CWRU.  But I still believe on the whole that CWRU is a better team this year and would beat WJU 7 times out of 10.

As ADL70 mentioned, Massey agrees with this assessment.  They give CWRU a 57% chance of winning a game on WJU's field right now, a 78% chance of winning at home, and a 69% chance of winning on a neutral field.

Hopefully CWRU and WJU meet in the playoffs and we get a chance to see how it plays out.

I have a hard time placing CWRU above W&J on my ballot because we have a H2H result (as long as both remain with 1 loss)... but I will say they are ranked consecutively on my ballot.  It will be very interesting to see if W&J can reverse the trend.. but I agree, it seems like the 2 game lead has lead to some complacency.  Or is it they have a bigger target on their backs?  Whatever it is - they have a little time to sort it out.  I think both are looking at road playoff games to open up the tournament. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 22, 2018, 04:01:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
I think both are looking at road playoff games to open up the tournament.

W&J is looking at a road playoff game.  CWRU is a long shot to even make the playoffs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2018, 05:52:06 PM
I said this in the car on the way to New Wilmington, I said it on the air pregame Saturday.

The wheels falling off the PAC bus that put W&J up by two games following the CWRU game did not do the Presidents any favors.

W&J knew it needed 3 wins over the final four games.  And it doesn't matter which three games.
And the Presidents have played, at times, like it didn't matter which three games.
Had W&J lost to Geneva, Saturday wouldn't have looked the way it did.
And, I'm pretty sure, Nov. 3 & Nov. 10 won't look anything like Oct. 13 & Oct. 20.

Here's the real bottom line:  W&J beat CWRU when the two played.
That's the only measure/evaluation that really matters.

Would CWRU win 7 of 10?  I doubt it.  I'll give you 6.  But they only play once this year.
And W&J caused/created four takeaways to make sure they won that day...and I think Massey said CWRU was going to win then...

And, likely, because of that, W&J will go to the NCAA's and CWRU will not.
We all know that the "best 32" don't make the playoff field.
But in the AQ conferences, the teams that win the conference do.
And, barring a "wheels off the Presidential limo" event, that will be W&J.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 22, 2018, 10:41:11 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2018, 05:52:06 PM
I said this in the car on the way to New Wilmington, I said it on the air pregame Saturday.

The wheels falling off the PAC bus that put W&J up by two games following the CWRU game did not do the Presidents any favors.

W&J knew it needed 3 wins over the final four games.  And it doesn't matter which three games.
And the Presidents have played, at times, like it didn't matter which three games.
Had W&J lost to Geneva, Saturday wouldn't have looked the way it did.
And, I'm pretty sure, Nov. 3 & Nov. 10 won't look anything like Oct. 13 & Oct. 20.

Here's the real bottom line:  W&J beat CWRU when the two played.
That's the only measure/evaluation that really matters.

Would CWRU win 7 of 10?  I doubt it.  I'll give you 6.  But they only play once this year.
And W&J caused/created four takeaways to make sure they won that day...and I think Massey said CWRU was going to win then...

And, likely, because of that, W&J will go to the NCAA's and CWRU will not.
We all know that the "best 32" don't make the playoff field.
But in the AQ conferences, the teams that win the conference do.
And, barring a "wheels off the Presidential limo" event, that will be W&J.

I don't think we're disagreeing here.  Arguing whether CWRU would take 6/10 or 7/10 is splitting hairs.  My point was simply that you can't just say "W&J is the best PAC team".  They will likely be the first place PAC team and they are a good team.  It is at least debatable whether they are the best team.

I also agree that they will probably be the only PAC team to make the playoffs this year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 23, 2018, 07:44:37 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 22, 2018, 04:01:13 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 22, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
I think both are looking at road playoff games to open up the tournament.

W&J is looking at a road playoff game.  CWRU is a long shot to even make the playoffs.

Right.  But either as the PAC Qualifier:  Road Game

CASE/W&J will be THE PAC game for at least the next three years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 25, 2018, 07:53:47 AM
CWRU fans,

Looks like team captain WR Justin Phan is back in the line up and listed as the starter for this week...after being injured against W & J and being out for the past two weeks.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/files/fb_BET_game_notes18.pdf
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 09:39:33 AM
I wouldn't put too much stock in that Preview.  Phan has been listed as starter in the two-deep for each game since W&J.  Orsini has also been listed in the depth chart all season, yet he hasn't played since week 1.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2018, 12:25:13 PM
As a working media guy, I use two-deep only to grab numbers & put them with names.

This conference's lax standards on two-deeps is ridiculous.
W&J does it.  Case does it.  Westminster does it.

Westminster's first two carries on Saturday were by back NOT listed on the two-deep.
W&J's defensive backfield had guys starting not listed.
Case has Phan & Orsini in there and they've been out or not played.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 25, 2018, 01:23:28 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2018, 12:25:13 PM
As a working media guy, I use two-deep only to grab numbers & put them with names.

This conference's lax standards on two-deeps is ridiculous.
W&J does it.  Case does it.  Westminster does it.

Westminster's first two carries on Saturday were by back NOT listed on the two-deep.
W&J's defensive backfield had guys starting not listed.
Case has Phan & Orsini in there and they've been out or not played.

Paging Bill Belichick..

Those are the top teams in the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2018, 01:51:34 PM
The rest of the conference might be as bad but those three are fresh--the CWRU one was posted by someone else today here, the W&J one I knew when I walked in the press box Saturday, and the Westminster one hit me square in the face shortly after the bad W&J punt snap and the Titans scoring two plays later.  I was left scrambling for names of the two ball carriers that started (and ended) the Westminster possession.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on October 25, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
So far W&J and Waynesburg have filed for ECAC bids from the PAC. I could see Westminster doing so as well given their participation in the past.

3 bowl games will be held on 11/17 at on campus sites. The whole D3FBFEST, single location event won't happen. Other teams that have filed are:

2018 ECAC DIII Football Bowl Games Declared Teams
November 17 | Campus Sites
School   Conference
Wilkes University   MAC
Misericordia University   MAC
FDU-Florham   MAC
Springfield College   NEWMAC
USMMA   NEWMAC
Utica College   Empire 8
Morrisville State   Empire 8
Alfred University   Empire 8
Ithaca College   Liberty League
Wesley College   NJAC


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 02:37:13 PM
Waynesburg?

Well, if they win their last two remaining games - CWRU and W&J- they'd be 6-4.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2018, 03:21:48 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 02:37:13 PM
Waynesburg?

Well, if they win their last two remaining games - CWRU and W&J- they'd be 6-4.
And Westminster would be going to the NCAAs.....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 10:12:52 PM
In that scenario, if Westminster wins out. It would be a three way tie right?  Does Westminster's loss to Wittenberg give them the tie breaker?  Best non-conference foe? What about 8-2 vs 7-3?  Advantage CWRU and W&J, then W&J has h2h. So W&J goes to NCAAs? Just asking.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2018, 12:55:09 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2018, 12:25:13 PM

W&J's defensive backfield had guys starting not listed.

... and not named Zach/Zack/Zac?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 26, 2018, 09:57:46 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 25, 2018, 10:12:52 PM
In that scenario, if Westminster wins out. It would be a three way tie right?  Does Westminster's loss to Wittenberg give them the tie breaker?  Best non-conference foe? What about 8-2 vs 7-3?  Advantage CWRU and W&J, then W&J has h2h. So W&J goes to NCAAs? Just asking.

OK I looked up the tie breaker:

14.    Tiebreaker for NCAA automatic qualifier (AQ): 1) Head-to-head competition, 2) Record against the highest-ranked team in the conference not involved in the tie. In the case of a three-way tie, it would be the fourth team. In case of a four-way tie, it would be the fifth-team, etc. If the records against that team are the same, it goes to the next highest team not involved in the tie, etc., 3) strength of conference wins (conference winning percentage of teams you beat in 8 PAC games, 4) Overall record, 5) Record vs. common non-league opponent(s). Note: if one team is eliminated, the tiebreaker begins again at step #1. All teams in a 3 or more team tie must have played each other for the head-to-head tiebreaker to be applicable.

For 2 Waynesburg, Grove City,  Bethany, and CMU  or some combination of them could end up 4-4 in conference.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 26, 2018, 10:12:50 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2018, 01:51:34 PM
The rest of the conference might be as bad but those three are fresh--the CWRU one was posted by someone else today here, the W&J one I knew when I walked in the press box Saturday, and the Westminster one hit me square in the face shortly after the bad W&J punt snap and the Titans scoring two plays later.  I was left scrambling for names of the two ball carriers that started (and ended) the Westminster possession.

To be charitable, those are posted early in the week.  Perhaps with the hope that a player will be ready to play if injured, or a sub is necessary because of an injury later in the week's practice.  But CWRU's hasn't changed in weeks despite a number of injuries.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 26, 2018, 10:53:54 AM
ADL, I get the "player injured in practice" after the 2-deeps are distributed to us media types.
That AIN'T what's happening.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 27, 2018, 01:48:27 PM
Geneva at CMU postponed.  Anyone know why?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2018, 02:24:08 PM
Shooting at a synagogue near the CMU campus.  Multiple fatalities & injuries.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 27, 2018, 03:27:03 PM
Awful
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 28, 2018, 05:20:15 PM
Any word if the CMU-Geneva game will get rescheduled this season? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2018, 06:14:55 PM
E.115, neither has an open date remaining.  My guess is that it's a no-game for 2018.

From any potential tie-breaking standpoint, it won't matter because all W&J, CWRU & WC will have played each of them.
And, while on that topic, Westminster's loss to Grove City could be the final determinant should W&J & CWRU each lose again.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 28, 2018, 08:00:16 PM
I suspect for religious reasons Geneva doesn't play on Sundays.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 29, 2018, 07:08:33 AM
Some CWRU and W & J guys are national statistical leaders:


Sacks:

#1 - DE Cameron Brown (CWRU), Sr. with 14 sacks

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/individual/36

Receiving TDs:
#1 - WR Andrew Wolf (W & J), So. with 17 receiving TDs
#2 - WR Colt Morgan (CWRU), So. with 16 receiving TDs

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/individual/752

Receiving Yards:
#1 - WR Andrew Wolf (W & J), So. with 1082 receiving yards

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/individual/455

Passing TDs:
#4 (tied) - QB Drew Saxton (CWRU), Fr. with 28 passing TDs

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/individual/751
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2018, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 28, 2018, 08:00:16 PM
I suspect for religious reasons Geneva doesn't play on Sundays.
They don't but there's no way they would have played Sunday in that neighborhood anyway.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2018, 12:02:45 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2018, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 28, 2018, 08:00:16 PM
I suspect for religious reasons Geneva doesn't play on Sundays.
They don't but there's no way they would have played Sunday in that neighborhood anyway.

Agreed, but if Geneva were willing to play on Sunday, they could have hosted.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 29, 2018, 03:11:15 PM
Will be played on 11/17

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2018/contrib/201810297qv97g
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2018, 04:55:49 PM
Good for the players on both teams.  Won't impact conference standings or tie-breakers.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 30, 2018, 09:50:04 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 29, 2018, 03:11:15 PM
Will be played on 11/17

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2018/contrib/201810297qv97g

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2018, 04:55:49 PM
Good for the players on both teams.  Won't impact conference standings or tie-breakers.

Agree.  I am glad they'll be able to play the game.  Obviously this pales in comparison to Saturday's events; however, for the sake of the players (especially seniors) you only get so many chances to suit up, and with both teams out of the playoff race it makes sense to schedule the game and give the guys that final chance to suit up.  Kudos to both schools for making that happen.

Saturday was a tough day, although I'm hardly the one most traumatized by the events.  I lived in various apartments <2 miles from that intersection for 14 years before we moved to the 'burbs last summer.  I've walked, run, or driven past it literally hundreds of times.  I didn't know what was going on until about 11:30 Saturday morning when I flipped on my TV to get ready for the usual college football Saturday and the local news was covering the story.  I don't have a first-degree connection to any of the victims but have several once-removed connections.  One of the Tree of Life victims was a beloved primary-care physician who cared for a number of people that I work with and/or their relatives.  Another was the widow of a longtime CMU statistics professor who taught and mentored several of my friends and colleagues.  Absolutely gutted for those folks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 31, 2018, 12:28:28 PM
CWRU went with four down linemen vs Bethany and it worked as Bethany was held to 98 yds TO.

Bethany countered with five DBs and held Spartans to 198 by air, though very wet cold day had a role as well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 31, 2018, 01:55:06 PM
RRs are out.  CWRU's only hope is another stumble by W&J.  Spartans 9th in South behind other C contenders Centre, Hardin Simmons, and Muhlenberg.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 31, 2018, 01:57:31 PM
Regional rankings are out: 
http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2018/first-regional-ranking
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 01, 2018, 01:36:37 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2018, 02:24:08 PM
Shooting at a synagogue near the CMU campus.  Multiple fatalities & injuries.

Many prayers to those family and friends affected by this senseless act.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 01, 2018, 03:07:30 PM
It wasn't "senseless."  It was hateful and premeditated.  I would say more, but this isn't the place for politics.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 04, 2018, 12:57:58 PM
Our youngblood - Freshman QB Drew Saxton - is now one TD away from tying the great QB Dan Whalen for the program all-time record in a season.  Dan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Whalen) set the record in his senior year...only after being a 4-year starter.

Saxton completed 27-of-37 passes in the game for 327 yards, his fifth 300 yard passing game of the year, while throwing for five touchdowns with just one interception.  He now has 33 touchdowns on the season, tying him with former Spartan Eli Grant (2002) for the second most in program history, and is now one shy of Dan Whalen's single-season record of 34 (set in 2009).

No. 20 CWRU Runs Winning Streak to Four with 41-17 Win over Waynesburg

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20181103pp29uz
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2018, 06:21:40 PM
Well, it all comes down to W&J at Waynesburg for the PAC title.

IF W&J wins, and that's far from a given now, the Presidents get the PAC AQ, and doubtful anybody else gets in NCAAs.
If W&J loses, and CWRU wins the Academic Bowl vs. a strugling CMU, then CWRU gets the AQ, and DEFINITELY nobody else gets in.
IF W&J and CWRU both lose, I believe W&J gets in.  Westminster's loss to Grove City would put them out of the three-way tie, and return W&J/CWRU to head-to-head.  And if that happens, W&J should either get sent to Alliance or on some cross-country airplane ride to assist in balancing the bracket.

I did not see, Saturday at St. Vincent, what I really thought I'd see. 

The offense was adequate though looked disinterested at times. For the third straight game, there appeared to be little emotion, energy, and spotty success at times.  This has to change.

Defense played pretty well, albeit, the Bearcats didn't show any signs of knowing anything about what they were doing, or what they wanted to do:  single-wing, pro, spread, I-backs, wildcat, and none of it particularly well.  But W&J defense allowed just one touchdown and that the result of a blocked punt where StV got the ball at the 2 yard line and needed 3 plays to score.

And the special teams situation has become a debacle.  Bad PAT snap and another missed kick.  Bad punt snap led to a blocked kick and the only StV touchdown. And so on.  The only thing that changed was W&J used a FOURTH kicker yesterday.  And Sarver hit all the ones with good snaps, which is an improvement from where they'd been.

I believe W&J will win at Waynesburg on Saturday, but will I not be the least bit surprised if they don't, absolutely not.

And, in light of the discussions on this thread from a couple weeks back, I believe the current evidence leans heavily toward CWRU being the best team in the League.  But, that won't matter unless the Spartans beat the Tartans and get some help.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 05, 2018, 09:35:19 AM
Thanks for the concession.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2018, 06:44:42 PM
CWRU - CMU game pushes back to 5:30 pm...dang playoff soccer...

TIME CHANGE FOR CWRU FOOTBALL: Saturday's Start Pushed Back to 5:30 PM

The start time for Saturday's Case Western Reserve University football game against Carnegie Mellon University at DiSanto Field in Cleveland, Ohio has been pushed back to 5:30 p.m.

The time change was made as an effort to accommodate the CWRU men's soccer team, which will be hosting the first round of the NCAA Championships on Saturday at DiSanto Field.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20181105mdpuof?fbclid=IwAR3yU0wh-zqHrpVIXz09vCXNW3xRa-XQhCA_X7no6qr-R7DvgLmkYkynHWs
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 06, 2018, 08:33:16 AM
Ouch, that hurts with the joint CMU-CWRU alumni tailgate already scheduled.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 06, 2018, 09:06:23 AM
And I have tickets for an event that evening that were purchased months ago, expecting 2pm kickoff.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 06, 2018, 10:04:25 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on November 06, 2018, 08:33:16 AM
Ouch, that hurts with the joint CMU-CWRU alumni tailgate already scheduled.

I already signed up for it.  Now I need to reassess, and I'm typically the most flexible!  Hopefully this doesn't put a dent in numbers to those driving in for the game / event.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on November 06, 2018, 11:59:13 AM

Whenever the game is, apparently 5:30, and whatever tailgate plans have been made, I wish the best to CWRU. Get the victory. Go Spartans! Let 's keep these victories in the state of Ohio ❗️❗️
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 06, 2018, 12:44:32 PM
http://d3football.com/columns/features/2018/thomas-more-road-show-coming-to-close

7500 miles!!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2018, 12:50:57 PM
IF W&J wins comfortably on Saturday, the Presidents will HOST an opening-round playoff game...just what's rattling around in the brain right now.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 06, 2018, 09:14:55 PM
CWRU fans, came across this on Twitter:  https://mobile.twitter.com/DenisonSports/status/1059863093168271360
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 07, 2018, 05:43:53 PM
This is from the PAC web site:

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2018/8/28/general-pac-partners-with-sidearm-sports-to-create-digital-network.aspx

Basically, all games that are televised by conference members will be available using ROKU or AppleTV. No more streaming from phones/tablets or going to school websites to link to the broadcasts.

Tried it with a few archived on demand events, and it worked pretty well. My test was the CMU/Westminister game. Only downside was listening to the color commentator (it was a Westminster home game) who is the ultimate homer. Makes Bob seem like the epitome of "fair and balanced.:  ;D 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2018, 05:55:20 PM
WashJeff68, I have always been a "rooter" not a "homer"....

While it may be quite clear from the broadcast who I want to win, the other team always gets its fair shake on the broadcast.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 07, 2018, 06:10:41 PM
Bob,

I was not being facetious. I really do think your broadcasts are balanced, and know that you, Mark, and my friend Bill D call em as you see em.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 09, 2018, 10:27:33 PM
PAC podcast: 

https://youtu.be/lcmhfhRHmUY
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2018, 08:34:48 PM
Carnegie-Mellon wins the Academic Bowl, 29-23, in OT, knocking CWRU from the PAC title share.

W&J is outright champions, the school's 26th PAC championship.
CWRU, already doubtful to make NCAA with a win, out with this loss.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 11, 2018, 09:38:31 AM
Drat! Paybacks are a bitch.

Props to CMU for keeping Spartans out of end zone. Too many red zone chances came up empty or just FGs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on November 11, 2018, 01:34:00 PM
Bob Gregg, just wondering if that home game scenario for W&J in first round is still rattling around in your brain.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2018, 01:53:16 PM
It's not making a lot of noise right now.  But I just looked up there and it's still there.....I don't think it's dead, but it's certainly in a deep coma.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on November 11, 2018, 04:10:49 PM
Bob, I think the D3 guys are on target....a road trip to John Carroll.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2018, 06:17:44 PM
Well, it's a road trip, but NOT to John Carroll.
W&J opens on the road at Centre College, Danville, KY.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 11, 2018, 08:50:11 PM
Three hours from Knoxville. We will make the trip.

We always go to Cleveland for Thanksgiving with my son and dil. A couple of years ago we stopped in Alliance for a second round game on the way home. Not a great experience, so not sure we will do that again if W&J gets past Centre, but we will see.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 13, 2018, 07:08:31 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 11, 2018, 08:50:11 PM
Three hours from Knoxville. We will make the trip.

We always go to Cleveland for Thanksgiving with my son and dil. A couple of years ago we stopped in Alliance for a second round game on the way home. Not a great experience, so not sure we will do that again if W&J gets past Centre, but we will see.

Fulford injured his ankle last week and sounds like he may be out awhile.  Due to the backup's performance, many are saying it's a big story. 

I wouldn't cancel that trip to Alliance just yet.  Of course, you got a tough(?) Centre squad in round 1..
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2018, 10:40:31 PM
My friend!  We are good.   ;)

Trust your old buddy. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2018, 07:48:13 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2018, 10:40:31 PM
My friend!  We are good.   ;)

Trust your old buddy.

Oh, I'm sure you are.  I miss living in Cincy so I could be in Alliance at any time I wanted. 

Maybe I shouldn't listen to the sky-is-falling fans on the OAC page...  hope the kid heals up.  I think you may see red in the Stagg. 

That said - the Saint John's experience was COOL but not so great for TMU as they ran into a buzz-saw.  This Johnnie offense reminded me a lot of some of the vintage Mount Union passing offenses.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Teamski on November 17, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
Hats off to Westminster for a really tough game.    If Wesley hadn't won the turnover war (4 for Wesley vs 5 for Westminster) this game would have ended very differently.  Well done.

-Ski
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2018, 09:47:17 AM
Happy Thanksgiving, all.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 22, 2018, 01:12:56 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2018, 09:47:17 AM
Happy Thanksgiving, all.

Ditto.

And I did come across one news story today:

Cam Brown grew up in the NBA and ended up a Division III football sack leader
By Eric Storms
STAFF WRITER
1 day ago

An elementary school-aged Cam Brown stood in his father's office inside Quicken Loans Arena wearing a funky shirt, shorts and two mismatched tennis shoes. Much of his body was marked up in Sharpie. He believed that if he looked as embarrassing as possible, his mom wouldn't take him to see the his father, Mike Brown, then-head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

But Brown had thought wrong. His mom forced him to go wearing exactly that and Mike remembers just about falling over when he saw his son in the arena. Growing up, despite always playing sports, Brown's favorite pastime was reading, Mike said, and he'd often rather do so than watch the NBA. That's something Brown had to do often with a father who has coached in the NBA for 18 years, including head coaching stints with Cleveland (2005-10, 2013-14) and the Los Angeles Lakers (2011-13).

Years later, Brown is still a basketball fan, but he found a different passion: football. Brown developed into one of the most elite pass rushers in Division III football, finishing his senior season at Case Western Reserve second in the country in sacks with 15 total.


http://dailyorange.com/2018/11/cam-brown-grew-nba-ended-division-iii-football-sack-leader/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 23, 2018, 09:41:13 AM
I noticed that he was not announced with the seniors on Senior Day.  He should have another year of eligibility since he did not participate in football his freshman year at UC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 05, 2018, 11:45:07 AM
St. Vincent College names new head coach:

https://athletics.stvincent.edu/news/2018/12/5/aaron-smetanka-named-head-football-coach.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 15, 2018, 11:37:11 PM
Great read on W& J history:

https://collegesportsmaven.io/cal/news/cal-football-bears-most-significant-bowl-games-no-6-quagmire-rose-bowl-a6mussdZS0aK5n9y0jrGfA/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on February 11, 2019, 04:12:30 PM
So I cut the cord a long time ago and haven't had a cable bill in years.  Instead of traditional cable I got a Roku and got Netflix/Hulu and stuff like that.  I happened to be looking to see what "channels" got added recently and much to my surprise but the PAC has a channel and I got it.  I am not much of a basketball fan so I didn't watch anything on, but I did check things out.  It appears instead of going to the college website to watch a game being live streamed, all the schools funnel that content to this app so it is all in one place.  Just thought that is neat and felt I would share it with all (the few) of you on this board. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 20, 2019, 05:14:33 PM
CWRU has posted a Spring Roster.  Since Cameron Brown didn't participate in Senior Day back in November I thought there was a chance that he was coming back since he had another year of eligibility, but apparently not. [Edit]  he wasn't on there yesterday, but today he is!

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/roster

Based on this roster, the Spartans expect to return 8 players on each side of the ball and a placekicker who earned post-season honors. Okay 7 were UAA HM, but it's still recognition.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on February 26, 2019, 04:13:31 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 20, 2019, 05:14:33 PM
CWRU has posted a Spring Roster.  Since Cameron Brown didn't participate in Senior Day back in November I thought there was a chance that he was coming back since he had another year of eligibility, but apparently not. [Edit]  he wasn't on there yesterday, but today he is!

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/roster

Based on this roster, the Spartans expect to return 8 players on each side of the ball and a placekicker who earned post-season honors. Okay 7 were UAA HM, but it's still recognition.

Certainly estastic to have a top top NCAA DIII pass rusher returning.

At this point, I'm guessing his goal for the regular season is to lead the nation in sacks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 28, 2019, 01:30:41 PM
Spartans QB Coach Kevin Burke who played last season in Europe signs with Memphis of AAF.

https://www.americanfootballinternational.com/former-vienna-vikings-qb-new-starter-for-memphis-express-of-alliance-of-american-football/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 28, 2019, 10:17:42 AM
CWRU football twitter taking an interesting approach by highlighting former players' career successes and medical school enrollment.

https://twitter.com/CWRUFootball?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on April 05, 2019, 09:56:37 AM
Quote from: mikefln on February 11, 2019, 04:12:30 PM
So I cut the cord a long time ago and haven't had a cable bill in years.  Instead of traditional cable I got a Roku and got Netflix/Hulu and stuff like that.  I happened to be looking to see what "channels" got added recently and much to my surprise but the PAC has a channel and I got it.  I am not much of a basketball fan so I didn't watch anything on, but I did check things out.  It appears instead of going to the college website to watch a game being live streamed, all the schools funnel that content to this app so it is all in one place.  Just thought that is neat and felt I would share it with all (the few) of you on this board.

Wait, is this on Roku?

I have a Roku TV.  If PAC has a "channel" on Roku I will definitely want to add that, would love to be able to stream CMU games on my real TV instead of phone/laptop screen.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 08, 2019, 10:17:38 AM
CWRU hosted 50 HS Jrs and parents on Friday.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on April 08, 2019, 01:21:12 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on April 05, 2019, 09:56:37 AM


Wait, is this on Roku?

I have a Roku TV.  If PAC has a "channel" on Roku I will definitely want to add that, would love to be able to stream CMU games on my real TV instead of phone/laptop screen.

Yes it is on Roku and apparently Apple TV.  Here is the link from the PAC website.

http://pacathletics.org/sports/2018/8/28/pacdigitalnetwork.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 09, 2019, 10:20:06 AM
CWRU HC Greg Debeljak to be honored by Greater Cleveland Football Coaches Association:

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20190409dz0ub7
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on April 11, 2019, 10:37:56 PM
Congrats to Jason Rosenbury, CWRU RB from 2000's, being named head coach at Kenyon:

Rosenbury appreciates the unique atmosphere of Kenyon and jumped at the opportunity to coach at the small liberal arts school. "I really enjoy working at high-academic schools, specifically Division-III schools," Rosenbury said. "I graduated from Case Western Reserve University, just up the road from Kenyon, and I had an amazing football experience and an amazing Division-III experience, and I think that really inspired me to continue to work with student athletes who are obviously very good athletes on the field but, more importantly, are great students."

https://kenyoncollegian.com/sports/football/2019/04/rosenbury-announced-as-lords-head-football-coach/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on April 16, 2019, 03:35:22 PM
While it does not impact FOOTBALL at all, the PAC today added Franciscan University as a full conference member.

Several sports will start conference play next year, all others will join for the 2020-2021 season.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2019/4/16/general-pac-adds-franciscan-as-full-member.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on April 16, 2019, 03:35:22 PM
While it does not impact FOOTBALL at all, the PAC today added Franciscan University as a full conference member.

Several sports will start conference play next year, all others will join for the 2020-2021 season.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2019/4/16/general-pac-adds-franciscan-as-full-member.aspx
Bob, thanks for the update.

May I ask you to share some of the reasons that Franciscan would move to the Pres AC? (What were the conversations that you could speculate would happen in the hallowed halls in Steubenville about the advantages to moving to the Pres AC?)

What is in it for the Presidents AC?  Which sports strengthen? Geography? Travel partner balance?

Who in the Pres AC would want them?

I am just trying to get my mind around the mission/vision issues in that part of the country.

Thanks
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2019, 08:15:26 AM
It is definitely less travel for Franciscan, which won't have to go to Buffalo for conference games. Seems like there has been an undercurrent about the AMCC's split between private and state schools, like there was in the CAC and has often been the case in conferences with a mix of the two.

Franciscan won't be any more competitive in the PAC -- it should be a wash competitively.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on April 18, 2019, 07:50:17 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 28, 2019, 01:30:41 PM
Spartans QB Coach Kevin Burke who played last season in Europe signs with Memphis of AAF.

https://www.americanfootballinternational.com/former-vienna-vikings-qb-new-starter-for-memphis-express-of-alliance-of-american-football/

Is it too late for him to come back?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 18, 2019, 09:43:39 PM
He still lists CWRU QB coach on his twitter profile.  He barely had a cup of coffee with AAF, before he was cut.  Playing football is his summer job I believe.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on April 19, 2019, 06:52:12 PM
Travel is certainly a major piece of the decision.
Franciscan is 25 minutes to Bethany, 30 minutes to W&J, under an hour to Waynesburg.
It's less than an hour to Chatham, or to Geneva, just over an hour to Westminster.
It's about 1:20 to Grove City, about the same to Thiel.
St. Vincent will be the longest trip for the Barons, about 1:35 minutes, depending on when they're going.

Men's basketball, soccer were both .500 clubs this year, tennis below .500 and lacrosse is winless.
Women's basketball, soccer and volleyball were well below .500, lacrosse at the .500 mark. Softball & tennis have the best records, 17-8 and 16-5 respectively.

This move is solid for the conference as well, adding yet another school within the geographic circle of the conference while providing a helping hand to each schools' travel budget.

However, the addition is not without issues:
Baseball will be faced with a decision:  stay with 3-game series or return to 2 games against each opponent. The three-game sets are preferred by the coaches for tie-breakers, etc., but they also do not want to lose the additional three non-conference games that the additional team will mean.

I do not anticipate any teams leaving the League near-term, and it's not out of the realm of possibility of another addition of members.  Allegheny continually pops up on the radar.  Hiram has been mentioned several times of the past few years.  One, maybe both, could be interested in football-only associate membership.  I think the League is still open to the possibility of a two-division football setup, though I don't have that officially.

The other piece is this:  with enrollment challenges at private, four-year colleges only projected to become tougher, the entire landscape of not just the PAC, but the entirety of D-III could see significant changes in the next 20 years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2019, 01:27:52 AM
Bob, thanks for that analysis.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 05, 2019, 11:57:10 AM
CWRU has added 27 28 first-year players to the roster.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/roster?sort=year
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 07, 2019, 04:43:03 PM
Nice recruiting haul! 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 08, 2019, 10:35:30 AM
I'm less impressed with the haul. I don't see a lot of size. Lost a really good looking kid from SoCal powerhouse Oaks Christian to Rochester (!?).

This kid looks like a beast though https://senior-year-www.hudl.com/profile/4534623/RJ-Ayers

Take reported 40-times with much skepticism - but 4.52  http://www.hudl.com/profile/5485518/Michael-Wojkowski



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 14, 2019, 08:55:08 AM
CMU 32 Incoming Frosh

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20190508f6ekyz
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 15, 2019, 08:31:45 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on May 14, 2019, 08:55:08 AM
CMU 32 Incoming Frosh

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2018-19/releases/20190508f6ekyz

Pretty solid and diverse haul for Carnegie Mellon.

I wonder when Case Western Reserve will officially announce?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 17, 2019, 07:58:10 PM
Case Western Reserve new assistant coach:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ByKyleKelly/status/1129483455333568514
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 22, 2019, 09:51:33 PM
Saw the DIII football schedules posted today.  Noted that CMU and CWRU only showed 8 games scheduled. Assume the  10th game will be their matchup at the end of the season. Who will they play in game one?
















Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 22, 2019, 10:15:20 PM
Thanks for catching that. Those schedules are complete, and now they are displaying properly.

https://www.d3football.com/teams/Carnegie_Mellon/2019/index
https://www.d3football.com/teams/Case_Western_Reserve/2019/index
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 04, 2019, 07:44:42 AM
This made me smile a little...found a Twitter shout out to the top statistical college Freshmen QB's from last year:

https://mobile.twitter.com/2018_QBs/status/1135080432825847810

Clemson, Case Western Reserve ... no big deal :)

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 07, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
CWRU has posted future schedules for 2020-2023 with out of conference game each year not scheduled.  https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

From d3football Open Dates, Millikin looks like a good fit, though a bit far, but not as far as WashU.  Albion and Brockport looked interesting but they each want a home game for 2020 and CWRU needs a home game for 2020.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 10, 2019, 06:12:16 PM
Former St Vincent HC (and long-time JCU Asst) Ron Dolciato will coach RBs at CWRU this season. He was reportedly a candidate for Lake Erie HC, but didn't get the job.

And just added to the roster is a 2018 All-Ohio HM LB Gavin Waters.  His HS class was 2018, I believe he attended CWRU last year, but didn't participate in football.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 15, 2019, 11:45:06 PM
Gang,

Lindy's College Football Preview magazine has W&J ranked #20 in its pre-season Division III Top 25.

Case Western Reserve is ranked #24, with the following statement:

"Sophomore QB Drew Saxton (34 TDs, 3033 yards) and junior WR Colt Morgan give Spartans spark."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on June 16, 2019, 12:39:16 PM
Longtime official Eugene Steratore, Sr. passes

This is the father of former NFL Referee and current CBS Rules expert Gene Steratore.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/observer-reporter/obituary.aspx?n=eugene-steratore&pid=193159398
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 26, 2019, 09:18:30 PM
A little blurb and some player shout outs on the upcoming season:

CWRU Football Ranked 24th in Lindy's D3 Preview

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/releases/20190626fj1rjx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 28, 2019, 12:29:13 AM
I'd give more credence to Street & Smith's whose preview was written by Keith McMillan.  It has W&J #22 CWRU not ranked in top 25.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on July 02, 2019, 03:47:45 PM
So with a slow week at work I decided to hit the internet.  Decided to look up college football rivalries see what pops up and what I generally look forward to every year.  Army/Navy is number 1 in my book with .  Anyways on wikipedia for D3 they list 3 PAC games.  So what do you think, did they miss any?  Are one of these bigger than the others?  How big do these schools take these rivalries? 

Academic Bowl    Carnegie Mellon    vs Case Western Reserve
The Game       Westminster (PA) vs Geneva
Mercer County Cup    Grove City vs Thiel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_college_football_rivalry_games
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 07, 2019, 12:27:28 PM
CWRU takes the Academic Bowl more seriously than other football games, although school spirit and football support at CWRU have always been a bit luke warm.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 08, 2019, 03:59:45 PM
A few years ago the PAC started calling the last game of the season "Rivalry Saturday" and each matchup has a catchy name. W&J plays Waynesburg in the "Backyard Brawl."  A rivalry implies, at least to me, that the teams are also competitive on the field. W&J and Waynesburg have played 46 times and Waynesburg has won 4.

i wonder how competitive the other PAC rivalry games are?

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on July 09, 2019, 07:32:03 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 08, 2019, 03:59:45 PM
A few years ago the PAC started calling the last game of the season "Rivalry Saturday" and each matchup has a catchy name. W&J plays Waynesburg in the "Backyard Brawl."  A rivalry implies, at least to me, that the teams are also competitive on the field. W&J and Waynesburg have played 46 times and Waynesburg has won 4.

i wonder how competitive the other PAC rivalry games are?

There are many things that cause a rivalry.  Proximity to each other is one of the bigger reasons. History of always playing each other  is another.  Same recruiting territory for both players and student body as a whole and that carries over to Alumni competing for jobs after school in the same area.  Another thing is grudge matches and fighting for the same stake like always competing for a conference title.  When talking about bigger schools like Ohio St vs Michigan it is one state wanting to be superior to its neighboring state which ties in with proximity but on a larger scale.  There are other things that make a rivalry but to me those are the main causes in my opinion. The more of those boxes you check the bigger the rivalry generally is.

So when talking Waynesburg and W&J they check a few of those boxes but not all.  They have proximity and history but I feel after that at best you can only partially check boxes.  Obviously they both try to attract the best football recruits and students, the problem is W&J attacks the better ones in higher numbers.  That leaves them dominating not just this "rivalry" on the field, but also the conference minus about a decade of Thomas Moore making it interesting, and a few other bumps in the road here and there.  In fact W&J domination of the PAC in football, I think is why the PAC may suffer from a lack of rivalries in football.  Just my opinion what the hell do I know.  I went to St Vincent before they even had a team.

I just love rivalries as I feel they are a nice spice to college football/athletics and sports in general.  I would like to know more about the local ones.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 09, 2019, 03:16:23 PM
The CWRU v. CMU rivalry is unique in that it counts towards TWO different conference standings: PAC and UAA.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 10, 2019, 07:46:49 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 08, 2019, 03:59:45 PM
A few years ago the PAC started calling the last game of the season "Rivalry Saturday" and each matchup has a catchy name. W&J plays Waynesburg in the "Backyard Brawl."  A rivalry implies, at least to me, that the teams are also competitive on the field. W&J and Waynesburg have played 46 times and Waynesburg has won 4.

i wonder how competitive the other PAC rivalry games are?

Academic Bowl has been pretty even in modern day and in its overall history:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Bowl_(college_football) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Bowl_(college_football))

The games have tended to be pretty close no matter the teams' records, especially in the past few years. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on July 10, 2019, 08:32:58 AM
Quote from: E.115 on July 10, 2019, 07:46:49 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 08, 2019, 03:59:45 PM
A few years ago the PAC started calling the last game of the season "Rivalry Saturday" and each matchup has a catchy name. W&J plays Waynesburg in the "Backyard Brawl."  A rivalry implies, at least to me, that the teams are also competitive on the field. W&J and Waynesburg have played 46 times and Waynesburg has won 4.

i wonder how competitive the other PAC rivalry games are?

Academic Bowl has been pretty even in modern day and in its overall history:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Bowl_(college_football) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Bowl_(college_football))

The games have tended to be pretty close no matter the teams' records, especially in the past few years.

The Academic Bowl is exactly what a rivalry should look like.  While all PAC schools are fine institutions Case and CMU are different as they are more research based and they attract a different type of student / student/athlete.  So they are recruiting the same talent pole that is different then the rest of the PAC.  Both schools have history of playing against each other in a fairly evenly contested series.  Basically they check a lot of the boxes that I feel a good rivalry is made of.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 10, 2019, 06:24:19 PM
When the PAC was formed, Allegheny College was a charter member and W&J joined the next year. I don't think they ever played football before then, but from 1956 until Allegheny left to join the NCAC they played very year, and fairly often after Allegheny left the conference, including the famous O'T Playoff thriiler played in the snow in Meadville in 1987 (a 23-17 win for W&J). W&J leads the series 21-20-1.

W&J and Allegheny competed off the athletic field as well. Both have similar academic programs, facilities and admissions standards. I know that there was a signifigant overlap of applicants as well, particularly from Pittsburgh area schools. Obviously, they won some and W&J won some, but it was pretty even.

Lately, Allegheny football has fallen on some hard times, so they haven't scheduled W&J for their non conference game, and W&J likes to use their non conference game as an early season "test," so it's unlikely they will be playing any time soon.

There have also been alums of one school who were caoches/administrators at the other, including W&J's successful baseball coach and football defensive co-ordinator.

This seems to check most, if not all, the boxes to define a rivalry. Sorry it is over, at least for the forseeable future.

Welcome to Mikefin. Nice to see another school represented on the board!

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: wally_wabash on July 11, 2019, 09:50:39 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 10, 2019, 06:24:19 PM
Lately, Allegheny football has fallen on some hard times, so they haven't scheduled W&J for their non conference game, and W&J likes to use their non conference game as an early season "test," so it's unlikely they will be playing any time soon.

The last time that Allegheny vs. W&J would have been a good time probably would have been 2009/2010.  The Gators really cratered out in the next five years, including going 4-34 after a surprise OT win at Wabash in 2012.  That stretch included a pair of 0-10 seasons, and if you're going winless in the NCAC, you're not having a good time.  Particularly if you're a program that has a national championship trophy (Allegheny's title was pre-AQ, yes, but not exactly leather helmets era either).  The Gators have rebuilt steadily in the three years they had under BJ Hammer and won six league games last year (they had won just four in the previous five years), and we'll see if the new staff there can build on what BJ Hammer started. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 11, 2019, 06:24:15 PM
BJ must be a glutton for punishment. Bowdoin has won one game in the last three years. Why leave Allegheny when it looks like things might be turning around to take on a challenge like this again?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: The Mole on July 11, 2019, 09:12:40 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 11, 2019, 06:24:15 PM
BJ must be a glutton for punishment. Bowdoin has won one game in the last three years. Why leave Allegheny when it looks like things might be turning around to take on a challenge like this again?
If Hammer can turn around Bowdoin, he will certainly be on a fast track to an Ivy/Patriot League type gig. I think getting them to the middle of the pack would be a serious accomplishment. The Polar Bears are 44-126 since 1998 and they are the only NESCAC team to have a losing head to head record versus the rest of the league. Their last winning slate was in 2005 (6-2). If he can get them to a winning record, they  should have a parade in Brunswick. He has a great campus and academic school to sell, but are they committed is the question?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 12, 2019, 01:12:46 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 10, 2019, 06:24:19 PM
When the PAC was formed, Allegheny College was a charter member and W&J joined the next year. I don't think they ever played football before then, but from 1956 until Allegheny left to join the NCAC they played very year, and fairly often after Allegheny left the conference, including the famous O'T Playoff thriiler played in the snow in Meadville in 1987 (a 23-17 win for W&J). W&J leads the series 21-20-1.


You got me interested in the history of the PAC, so I dug in a little deeper.

I show W&J and Allegany joining at the same time in 1958. 

Founders were John Carroll, Case Tech, Western Reserve, and Wayne State in 1955. 

Interesting to see the geographic shift move from Cleveland-Detroit to essentially Pittsburgh-Western PA.

IMAGE SOURCE:  Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents%27_Athletic_Conference

Two interesting notes:

1) Eastern Michigan was once a member of the PAC!
2) When the Western Reserve and Case Tech teams merged in 1970, they stayed in the PAC as the combined team
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on July 12, 2019, 01:48:47 PM
Quote from: E.115 on July 12, 2019, 01:12:46 PM

You got me interested in the history of the PAC, so I dug in a little deeper.

I show W&J and Allegany joining at the same time in 1958. 

Founders were John Carroll, Case Tech, Western Reserve, and Wayne State in 1955. 

Interesting to see the geographic shift move from Cleveland-Detroit to essentially Pittsburgh-Western PA.

IMAGE SOURCE:  Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents%27_Athletic_Conference

Two interesting notes:

1) Eastern Michigan was once a member of the PAC!
2) When the Western Reserve and Case Tech teams merged in 1970, they stayed in the PAC as the combined team

What I find  interesting is the President's run the league not ADs that is where the conference name comes from.  I wonder if it still runs that way.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 15, 2019, 02:13:23 PM
Season getting closer ... players report in a month.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 17, 2019, 10:11:05 PM
In other off season news - the new Struthers High School's athletic complex, which pretty much sits on the Ohio- Pennsylvania border of PAC country, is being named after one of the (Case) Western Reserve football alumnus greats, Steve Belichick:

https://www.vindy.com/news/2019/jul/17/struthers-complex-named-for-belichick/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 19, 2019, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: mikefln on July 12, 2019, 01:48:47 PM
What I find  interesting is the President's run the league not ADs that is where the conference name comes from.  I wonder if it still runs that way.
Yes, it certainly does.  Just ask Thomas More.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 20, 2019, 10:53:39 PM
CWRU new locker rooms beginning to look pretty slick:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DebeljakGreg/status/1151846918659727361
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 23, 2019, 06:24:52 PM
CWRU season preview  https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/releases/20190723go7r0h

Media guide   https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/f/l/psf9w463djdarw/cwru_football_media_guide_web.pdf
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 25, 2019, 07:46:46 PM
PAC Media Day Tues Aug 6

http://pacathletics.org/news/2019/7/24/pac-announces-lineup-for-annual-football-media-day.aspx

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 26, 2019, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 25, 2019, 07:46:46 PM
PAC Media Day Tues Aug 6

http://pacathletics.org/news/2019/7/24/pac-announces-lineup-for-annual-football-media-day.aspx

Interesting to see CWRU is bringing their sophomore QB, in the line up of all seniors (minus the Westminster guy).

And perhaps even more interesting to see that every player hails from PA (minus the Grove City guy).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 06, 2019, 08:49:05 PM
W&J and  CWRU 1-2 in PAC Poll  W&J by a big margin 23 first place votes to 6.

http://pacathletics.org/news/2019/8/4/w-j-headlines-pac-preseason-football-poll.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 07, 2019, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 06, 2019, 08:49:05 PM
W&J and  CWRU 1-2 in PAC Poll  W&J by a big margin 23 first place votes to 6.

http://pacathletics.org/news/2019/8/4/w-j-headlines-pac-preseason-football-poll.aspx

I am rooting for Geneva and Tyler Cann this year.  Anybody who can rock out a mullet like that is A ok in my book.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 14, 2019, 05:00:52 PM
Here is the pre season report from W&J

https://gopresidents.com/news/2019/8/12/preseason-preview-2019-football.aspx

Some holes to fill, but for the past 35 years, it has basically been reload rather than rebuild.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 16, 2019, 10:37:50 AM
Congrats to PAC's d3football.com pre-season All-Americans

First Team  Justin Wolf  WR  W&J

Third Team  Wesley Schools  RB  Grove City
                  Colt Morgan  WR  CWRU


https://www.d3football.com/awards/all-americans/2019-preseason
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 23, 2019, 10:34:13 PM
Great feature story on Case Western Reserve sophomore QB, Drew Saxton:

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-football/2019/08/23/South-Fayette-grad-Drew-Saxton-quarterback-Case-Western-Reserve/stories/201908210011

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 24, 2019, 11:08:54 PM
https://www.thiel.edu/newsroom/press-releases/detail/thiel-college-plays-a-starring-role-in-new-coca-cola-college-football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 27, 2019, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 24, 2019, 11:08:54 PM
https://www.thiel.edu/newsroom/press-releases/detail/thiel-college-plays-a-starring-role-in-new-coca-cola-college-football

That is damn cool.  It probably won't move the needle much for them but other than the Stagg Bowl there is not much more national advertising a D3 school can get.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 28, 2019, 01:04:33 PM
In pass-happy era of football, PAC teams still value running game

https://triblive.com/sports/in-pass-happy-era-of-football-pac-teams-still-value-running-game/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 28, 2019, 06:10:23 PM
Witt W&J will be televised on a few outlets:

https://gopresidents.com/news/2019/8/28/football-w-j-wittenberg-season-opener-to-be-televised-by-wpnt-22-and-espn3.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 28, 2019, 10:56:22 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 28, 2019, 06:10:23 PM
Witt W&J will be televised on a few outlets:

https://gopresidents.com/news/2019/8/28/football-w-j-wittenberg-season-opener-to-be-televised-by-wpnt-22-and-espn3.aspx

Oh wow.  Very impressive!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 29, 2019, 10:36:13 AM
PAC has an App on Roku which will stream all home games from schools that use Sidearmsports
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 29, 2019, 10:37:35 AM
CWRU's Cam Brown
https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2019/08/cameron-brown/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 31, 2019, 08:33:50 PM
Who's ready for some football yet??

I know I'm ready for a lot more of these of Saxton to Morgan jump balls this season:

https://mobile.twitter.com/mpodo/status/1167816665905676288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1167816665905676288&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.news-herald.com%2Fsports%2Fqb-jake-floriea-of-mentor-solid-in-john-carroll-scrimmage%2Farticle_6528a232-cc31-11e9-b08b-37871ffabb8c.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 04, 2019, 02:54:06 PM
Case Western Reserve @ Rochester preview:

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/files/fb_UR_game_notes19.pdf

A few interesting notes:

- CWRU has a freshmen WR starting
- No Senior RB Sam Jenkins on the 2-deep?
- Rochester is starting a ton  of Freshmen on defense...especially in the secondary

---------

In other CWRU news:

Local CWRU preview: https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-football-team-excited-about-upgrades-high-hopes-for/article_2e41516e-ccf0-11e9-beeb-a742387794d6.html

Colt Morgan feature:  https://www.the-daily-record.com/sports/20190903/on-campus--colt-morgan-primed-for-big-season-with-cwru-football-team
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 05, 2019, 10:46:27 PM
I thought that good things might be coming from Wojkowski when he got uni #19.  He's 6'1 175 and has a reported 40 of 4.52.  I can't wait to hear [NOT] the opponents' broadcasters, who in the past have had trouble with much simpler names, butchering his name.  For the record - Why -cow - ski.

Jenkins omission due to injury? 

Inexperience in secondary? Saxton must be licking his chops.

Note also ILB Travis Johnston KR.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 05, 2019, 11:40:35 PM
So what was in the water in New Wilmington, PA tonight?!?

Westminster 66
Capital 7


https://athletics.westminster.edu/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=5353

Including 4 INTs returned for touchdowns and 1 punt returned for a touchdown.

WOW.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on September 06, 2019, 09:10:21 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 05, 2019, 11:40:35 PM
So what was in the water in New Wilmington, PA tonight?!?

Westminster 66
Capital 7


https://athletics.westminster.edu/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=5353

Including 4 INTs returned for touchdowns and 1 punt returned for a touchdown.

WOW.

If it was the water, they might want to bottle a lot of it. Next year Westminster opens against Mount Union in Alliance.  8-)  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 07, 2019, 08:04:42 PM
It wasn't pretty. but the W&J defense showed up and won the day. I suspect Coach Sirianni learned alot today which will help him prepare for the PAC schedule, which is the reward for scheduling a challenging game early in the season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 08, 2019, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 07, 2019, 08:04:42 PM
It wasn't pretty. but the W&J defense showed up and won the day. I suspect Coach Sirianni learned alot today which will help him prepare for the PAC schedule, which is the reward for scheduling a challenging game early in the season.

That was a rough game with a lot of turnovers.  Good news is that W&J came out with the win, because they did not play very well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 09, 2019, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 07, 2019, 08:04:42 PM
It wasn't pretty. but the W&J defense showed up and won the day. I suspect Coach Sirianni learned alot today which will help him prepare for the PAC schedule, which is the reward for scheduling a challenging game early in the season.

Regardless, nice to see them come out with the W against a strong perennial playoff team.  Definitely flexes the muscle of the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 12, 2019, 04:54:16 PM
Pitt plays at Penn State Noon Saturday 9/14

So what do a bunch of D3 team schedule for Saturday 9/14?

Waynesburg at Westminster 1 pm
W&J at Theil 1 pm
Bethany at Grove City 7 pm
Carnegie Mellon at Geneva 7 pm

Case Western and St Vincent is off. 

Why would Westminster and Theil try to go up against Pitt vs Penn St?  This is a golden opportunity early in the season while there is still buzz to the season to not go head to head against the big boys.  Why would the PAC not schedule a Case Western home game since they are not affected by said big game?  This is not rocket science.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 15, 2019, 12:17:32 PM
Nice article about W&J defensive lineman Mike Williams who played an outstanding game versus Wittenberg last week:

https://triblive.com/sports/military-helps-transform-wj-senior-mike-williams-from-equipment-manger-to-feared-d-lineman/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 15, 2019, 01:47:24 PM
Finally saw the Thiel commercial on live primetime tv yesterday.

Put a smile on my face ... very cool it's a nationally televised commercial:

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/oscb/coca-cola-thiel-college-this-is-our-team
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 15, 2019, 07:20:57 PM
Neat commercial. Great pub for Thiel, the PAC and D3. Watched most of the W&J Thiel game. The commercial was also an accurate depiction of where Thiel's program is right now. Hope the new coach can have an impact.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 20, 2019, 10:49:59 PM
PAC week 3 podcast recap and preview:

https://youtu.be/a4oMGibHdC4
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 21, 2019, 02:20:57 PM
Competitive game in Pittsburgh.

HALFTIME

W&J 0
CMU 6
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 21, 2019, 02:37:21 PM
Ugly game.  Does W&J not trust their FG kicker?  Down 3-0 late in the 2nd quarter and they went for it on 4th and 10 on the 18.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 21, 2019, 02:59:42 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on September 21, 2019, 02:37:21 PM
Ugly game.  Does W&J not trust their FG kicker?  Down 3-0 late in the 2nd quarter and they went for it on 4th and 10 on the 18.

There must be something going on with the special teams.  Different personnel?  That W&J extra point was super low / blocked by CMU.

Update:

3rd QTR 7:15

W&J 6
CMU 13

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 21, 2019, 07:48:42 PM
Yes, it was an ugly game to watch. The kicking game has been a BIG issue for W&J the last few years,  and it looks like the drama/trauma continues.

Neither team played particularly well offensively, but both defenses mostly stepped up when they had to. Seems like Wolf was held in check.

Hopefully W&J got some humility which will help the rest of the way. CMU is a good team, and so are Westminster, Grove City, and of course CWRU. No cake walk.

Of course, that makes things more interesting!



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 22, 2019, 03:06:54 PM
4-way race now?

CWRU and Westminster untested as yet. They test each other 10/5 in the 'land.

Bob Gregg - did you broadcast the W&J game? Any clue about the measurement kerfuffle in the first quarter?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 22, 2019, 08:54:36 PM
PUTRID performance from the W&J offense, second time in three weeks.  And only saw minor adjustments, if any, to the failures to move the football.

Senior quarterback has struggled against both good teams the Presidents have played.  Throws are regularly late, or short, or both, leading to multiple turnovers.
His play has always mirrored the mindset of the head coach, which I boil down to this:  "As long as I have the ball in my hand and am not tackled, we can still score." QB was sacked SIX times Saturday, rushed/flushed several other times, and still has not thrown away ONE pass.  Last W&J play of the day (first down), he avoided a sack, scrambled to a clearing, then threw into heavy CMU traffic instead of onto the CMU bench.  This cowboy gunslinger mentality has been a noose around the Presidents' necks for a long time.  It is the way they do business, even if other approaches would better serve them that day.

Wolf is not 100% but stayed on the field most of the game.  Somebody else at 100% might have been a better option to Wolf at 80%.  Wolf also dropped or short-armed several passes.  There was at least one other drop on the afternoon, too.

Team/coach unwillingness to commit to running the ball, and the team's resultant inability to do so, will continue to hold this team down.

Finally, Coach Sirianni has repeatedly put his defense in terrible circumstances. And the 4th & 1 shy of his own 35 yard line was just the latest.  The defense had already made one hold, forcing CMU FG after an interception off a poor QB throw.  Then, having not been able to run at all, Coach calls a run up the middle that gets stuffed.  PUNT the ball away and flip the field position.  You don't have an O-Line like Lucky used to.  And you don't have Chris Babirad (or Bobby Strope) in the backfield. This is, perhaps, the first time in Coach Sirianni's tenure that the defense is good enough to win every day in the PAC.  The offense (and special teams) are millstones that have to be fixed.  And now!

As far as the "measurement kerfuffle"--the officiating crew should be embarrassed.  They spotted the ball (likely incorrectly).  They brought the chains on, measured and it was sufficient for a first down.  Then, officials huddled (lengthy), made no signals to anyone, then went to the W&J sideline.  Then, they set the chains for CMU first down.  Finally, the R announced that the play was stopped short of the line to gain (damn whatever anybody saw when they brought the sticks out and measured).  There is NO excuse for an NCAA crew to kerfuffle something this badly.  The time to decide the ball was spotted poorly was BEFORE you brought the chains out.  In the end, it was very likely the right outcome with the 4th & 1 play STUFFED (see paragraph above) but it is a moment that should keep this crew from working beyond Week 11.  It was an inexcusable performance.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 23, 2019, 09:17:20 AM
Agree about the measurement kerfuffle.  There is no way that play got back to the line of scrimmage, but if the refs doubted the spot (or possibly thought the chains may have been moved), why measure if you've already determined they did not get the first down anyway?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 23, 2019, 09:44:20 AM
BG - Thanks for shedding light on the 4th down measurement.  I wondered why Wolf had been so ineffective, too bad he was not 100%.

Jeff - It's always seemed inconsistent to me that spotting the ball is by 'eyeball' then they try to be precise by bringing out the chains. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 24, 2019, 07:28:05 AM
Nod to Carnegie Mellon for having two players on the D3Football.com Team of the Week:

https://d3football.com/awards/tow/2019/week3

CB Sean Knight, So., Carnegie Mellon
K Brandon Nguyen, So., Carnegie Mellon
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 24, 2019, 12:00:33 PM
Case Western Reserve did crack the Top 25 in the NCAA AFCA poll yesterday:

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/afca-coaches
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2019, 10:24:31 AM
It's not the NCAA AFCA poll, just the AFCA Top 25. The NCAA doesn't do national polls.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 25, 2019, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 24, 2019, 12:00:33 PM
Case Western Reserve did crack the Top 25 in the NCAA AFCA poll yesterday:

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/afca-coaches

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2019, 10:24:31 AM
It's not the NCAA AFCA poll, just the AFCA Top 25. The NCAA doesn't do national polls.

Ahh ok.  Thank you for the clarification.

I see NCAA website also hosts the D3football.com poll: https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/d3footballcom

But it is not being updated, which why I assumed the AFCA was the official NCAA one.

Can you have someone feed a weekly update to the NCAA website?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2019, 04:47:53 PM
I can try -- have never had to email it to them previously, though.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 26, 2019, 08:55:08 AM
Sirianni tells Observer-Reporter of injuries on offense:  https://observer-reporter.com/sports/injuries-ravage-w-j-s-offense/article_ab265ed8-dfd1-11e9-85e2-03a53a05552f.html

Regarding Andrew Wolf:  "We're pretty sure that Andrew is going to be out the rest of the season," said Sirianni. "We probably shouldn't have played him this past week. We're getting tests done but we're pretty sure he's going to miss the remainder of the season. He's a junior and still has a life ahead of him."

Regarding Jordan West:  "He's going to miss this week and maybe multiple weeks," said W&J head coach Mike Sirianni of West. "We're going to have to go to the drawing board and see what we can do."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 27, 2019, 07:43:16 AM
I didn't realize Grove City had a 9 game win streak going (and it was the second longest in the nation)...great article:

After the streaks
By Adam Turer
D3sports.com

https://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2019/after-the-streaks
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2019, 09:44:54 AM
Joey Koroly was a three-way player for W&J yesterday.
With Jordan West already out, and EJ Thompson's leg tweak on the first play, Koroly
--ran 17 times for 75 yards and a touchdown
--caught a pass for 18 yards
--had three total tackles
--broke up 2 passes
--defended another 5-8 passes
--returned 2 kickoffs for 41 yards

I'm worn out just typing that....LOL
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 30, 2019, 07:56:44 AM
CMU making the cover photo of ATN:  http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2019/09/30/atn-podcast-246-the-one-with-all-the-unbeatens/

Plus the three undefeated PAC teams get some shout outs -- Westminster, Case Western Reserve, and Carnegie Mellon (PAC mentioned at 26:45 mark).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 30, 2019, 03:19:17 PM
Case Western Reserve holds on to its #25 ranking in the AFCA Coaches Poll:

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/afca-coaches
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 02, 2019, 02:24:50 PM
Westminster (4-0) @ Case Western Reserve (3-0) @ 7 PM

Preview for the battle of two PAC

Westminster: https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/westminstercollegepa.sidearmsports.com/documents/2019/10/2/2019_Football_Game_Notes_Week_5.pdf

CWRU: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/8/j/lno2owzd0hqagy/fb_WES_game_notes19.pdf

Westminster having the nation's 14th best passing defense (by yardage) and the nation's 7th best scoring offense is certainly eye opening.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2019, 09:31:47 AM
All those stats and rankings are rather irrelevant as Westminster's opponents are a combined 1-13 and CWRU's 2-10. Curiously there is no common opponent.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 04, 2019, 08:33:22 AM
^Fair enough.  Hopefully the PAC will be able to muster some national prominence as the top teams play each other.

Week #5 PAC podcast:  https://youtu.be/XxXYvKXS4Zk
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 05, 2019, 12:14:03 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2019, 09:31:47 AM
All those stats and rankings are rather irrelevant as Westminster's opponents are a combined 1-13 and CWRU's 2-10. Curiously there is no common opponent.

Relatedly — from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Are these offenses for real? Case Western Reserve and Westminster will find out Saturday in PAC showdown

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/10/are-these-offenses-for-real-case-western-reserve-and-westminster-will-find-out-saturday-in-pac-showdown.html

———

And from the News Herald:

Case's Cameron Brown, son of former Cavs coach Mike Brown, making a name for himself on gridiron

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-s-cameron-brown-son-of-former-cavs-coach-mike/article_d5605916-e61a-11e9-9e36-8bec45445859.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 05, 2019, 10:14:48 PM
Case wins 21-13.

Next week's W&J game should be a REAL showdown!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 06, 2019, 08:46:35 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 05, 2019, 12:14:03 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2019, 09:31:47 AM
All those stats and rankings are rather irrelevant as Westminster's opponents are a combined 1-13 and CWRU's 2-10. Curiously there is no common opponent.



Are these offenses for real? Case Western Reserve and Westminster will find out Saturday in PAC showdown

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/10/are-these-offenses-for-real-case-western-reserve-and-westminster-will-find-out-saturday-in-pac-showdown.htm

CWRU's is with 409 yds TO yesterday, 27 more than its season average coming in. While Westminster's TO yesterday was 286, 140 yds under its average before.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 06, 2019, 09:02:38 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 05, 2019, 10:14:48 PM
Case wins 21-13.

Next week's W&J game should be a REAL showdown!!!

It will be real in the sense that a Spartan win almost assures a PAC crown. But not to put too much stock in the transitive property, W&J lost to CMU which lost to GCC, who CWRU beat 54-14.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 06, 2019, 08:58:23 PM
Case finally cracks the d3football.com Top 25.

https://www.d3football.com/top25/2019/week5?fbclid=IwAR3P6pTpF5GMZnaUiVrkXTMz6YONQWpS1Vd34Uf2gdRnx6WlHHdtpwTUOg8
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 07, 2019, 02:42:55 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 06, 2019, 08:58:23 PM
Case finally cracks the d3football.com Top 25.

https://www.d3football.com/top25/2019/week5?fbclid=IwAR3P6pTpF5GMZnaUiVrkXTMz6YONQWpS1Vd34Uf2gdRnx6WlHHdtpwTUOg8

And are now #21 in the AFCA D3 Coaches Poll:  https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/afca-coaches
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 10, 2019, 04:00:18 PM
PAC podcast week #6:  http://pacathletics.org/news/2019/10/10/week-6-pac-football-report-podcast.aspx?path=

Participating in the Week 6 report podcast are Case Western Reserve University 16th-year head coach Greg Debeljak, Grove City College fourth-year head coach Andrew DiDonato and Carnegie Mellon University 34-year head coach Rich Lackner.




I just hope CWRU can hold W&J's West to less than 6 TDs this time around...

From last year: https://gopresidents.com/news/2018/10/6/football-presidents-go-west-to-defeat-no-16-case-western-reserve-44-36.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 12, 2019, 04:32:22 PM
Case wins 35-19.

The game was more lopsided than the score indicates.

Case outgained W&J 520-296, and sacked the W&J QB EIGHT times.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 12, 2019, 04:42:14 PM
I actually had to leave when it was 35-7.  What the heck happened in the last few minutes??
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 12, 2019, 06:25:37 PM
W&J got two tds against soft coverage in 4th qtr. Still it was 502 yds vs 296 TO  8 sacks for -56 yds for Spartan D

GC beat Westminster so it's down to CWRU or CMU. Though CMU still has to play Westminster
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 12, 2019, 07:37:41 PM
CMU also still has to play Waynesburg! :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 12, 2019, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 12, 2019, 07:37:41 PM
CMU also still has to play Waynesburg! :)

OMG it's 3-3 at the half! Whoda thunk it
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 12, 2019, 08:41:02 PM
Sooner or later CMU was bound to pull away.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 12, 2019, 08:49:37 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 12, 2019, 08:41:02 PM
Sooner or later CMU was bound to pull away.

Yep Tartans have a loong TD drive and a pick 6. CMU-17-3 end of 3

Now 24-3 Cue Dandy Don
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2019, 11:11:14 PM
CWRU will beat W&J in each of the next two meetings as long as Saxton stays healthy.
He showed yesterday why W&J wanted him...cool, calm, accurate, durable, unflappable.

I don't care how much better W&J's defense is, as long as the Presidents keep this "shoot out" offensive mentality, W&J can not beat Saxton-led CWRU.
Could be on the verge of a three-year (maybe longer) NCAA drought here in Wash, PA.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 14, 2019, 03:38:59 PM
^ Case Western Reserve definitely feels fortunate to find such a polished, ready-to-go QB straight out of high school to start as a true freshman, and continue build experience through his college career.  Going to be a continual battle these next couple of years, for sure.

-----

Updated national rankings for Case Western Reserve:

#19 AFCA Coaches https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/afca-coaches
#23 d3football.com https://d3football.com/top25/2019/week6

And how about the most un-talked about stat of the 2019 season:

CWRU has the #1 and #2 guys in sacks per game in the NATION!

DE Cam Brown
LB Joshua Smith

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/individual/36

Relatedly:

#2 in Team Sacks https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/466
#8 in Team Rushing Defense https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/24
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 14, 2019, 09:13:43 PM
Clearly CWRU had the better team Saturday. Would it have been different if Andrew Wolf had been there? Suppose Wolf was there Sexton wasn't?  Amazing what a difference one player can make to a team, particularly in DiII.  Good luck to CWRU the test pf the way. Go PAC!

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 15, 2019, 08:00:10 AM
Gotta think that a big part of the CWRU recruiting edge for Saxton was that W&J had an incumbent starter at QB in Jacob Adams, still a junior this year, while Spartans had no returning QB starter.

OLB Joshua Smith, who is not even a starter, becomes the third straight Spartan defender to make the d3football TOTW.

CMU DE Michael Lohmeier also made that list.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 15, 2019, 02:58:22 PM
Adams is a senior this year.
Biggest recruiting edge for CWRU is that MOM wanted him to go there.  Period.  The End.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 15, 2019, 03:07:42 PM
Could academics have played a part?  Not trying to knock W&J, but CWRU is on a different level academically.  Was he also looking at CMU?

Also, he will have started two more years at CWRU than he likely would have at W&J, which I would have to think would play a sizable role in his decision.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 15, 2019, 04:17:53 PM
Saxton was a better QB at start of last year (his freshman year) than Adams is today (a senior).

Saxton wouldn't have been the starter at W&J at the beginning of last year, but I'm not sure he wouldn't have been at the end....

Sure, academics play a part, major concentration, etc....and that's not a knock on W&J at all.  It's not like that's some junior college or military prep school....

In the inimitable words of John Luckhardt, :"If I'm laying on the operating table, I'd much rather see a President looking over me than ........."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 15, 2019, 07:13:57 PM
Per CWRU's website Saxton's major is biochemistry
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 16, 2019, 06:05:13 PM
Some one-sided highlights from the CWRU- W&J game.

Fantastic to see some of the young CWRU guys starting to mature and emerge.

https://youtu.be/8FN45g3Bw1Y
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 16, 2019, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 16, 2019, 06:05:13 PM
Some one-sided highlights from the CWRU- W&J game.
When the outcome was still in question, the highlights were one-sided.
That's what made the outcome no longer in question....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 17, 2019, 01:10:42 PM
CWRU Feature

https://www.d3football.com/columns/features/2019/saxton-case-western-reserve-spartans-finally-click
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 17, 2019, 01:29:18 PM
It was nice to see Wojkowski get his first TD.  He has some serious speed and I hope they're able to get him the ball in space more as the season goes on.  I was also impressed with how he held his block downfield on the TD pass to Robaina.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 17, 2019, 10:38:53 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 17, 2019, 01:29:18 PM
It was nice to see Wojkowski get his first TD.  He has some serious speed and I hope they're able to get him the ball in space more as the season goes on.  I was also impressed with how he held his block downfield on the TD pass to Robaina.

He certainly has some wheels...and happy he is only a freshman.  His "Hudl profile" lists him at a 4.5 speed: https://wwe.hudl.com/profile/5485518/Michael-Wojkowski
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 17, 2019, 10:42:14 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 17, 2019, 01:10:42 PM
CWRU Feature

https://www.d3football.com/columns/features/2019/saxton-case-western-reserve-spartans-finally-click

Very cool.  Very well written with a ton a great quotes.

--------

And now a shout out to the defense side off the ball:

2 Case Western Reserve University football players lead entire 247-team division
Posted: 4:13 PM, Oct 17, 2019  Updated: 4:13 PM, Oct 17, 2019
By: Camryn Justice

CLEVELAND — Two Case Western Reserve University Spartans players are breaking through offensive lines and breaking through their division by leading the nation in sacks among Division III schools.

Defensive end Cameron Brown and outside linebacker Joshua Smith are leading all 247 DIII football teams in sacks per game.


https://www.news5cleveland.com/sports/college-sports/2-case-western-reserve-university-football-players-lead-entire-247-team-division
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 19, 2019, 04:16:07 PM
Serious props to St Vincent's game plan and OL.  Bearcats rushed for 220 yds against a Spartan D that was averaging only 53.2 yds given up per game. And they help the sack attack to zero sacks.  Final 34-26 CWRU
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 19, 2019, 06:40:58 PM
Bethany beats CMU, 23-19.

This means Case can lose 1 of their last 4 games and still be conference champions.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 24, 2019, 09:13:23 PM
First I'm hearing of this, but sad to report the great Case Western Reserve coach from the mid-1980s, Jim Chapman, has passed away.

Chapman led the Spartans with an impressive 36-7-1 (0.830) record over five seasons in the mid-1980's, including the undefeated 9-0 season of 1984 (where ironically they weren't invited into the 8 team playoff, even though the defeated W & J during the regular season who was let in!)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Case_Western_Reserve_Spartans_football_team

Here's some info on his passing:

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/high-school-sports/south-football-rebels-to-wear-decals-to-honor-late-coach/article_be3caa70-f671-11e9-b107-fbd253a33bcb.html

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/news-herald/obituary.aspx?n=jim-chapman&pid=194074912&fhid=31885
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 25, 2019, 08:03:53 AM
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had a nice feature of CWRU QB Drew Saxton:

Former South Fayette QB Drew Saxton hasn't missed a step at Case Western Reserve

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/other-colleges/2019/10/23/South-Fayette-QB-Drew-Saxton-Case-Western-Reserve/stories/201910230117
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on October 25, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
While Saxton has enjoyed success at CWRU from the get go I still feel like he would of had to of served as a back up for Adams the last two seasons. Jake is vastly unrated.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 26, 2019, 10:12:16 AM
Quote from: Husker Four four on October 25, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
While Saxton has enjoyed success at CWRU from the get go I still feel like he would of had to of served as a back up for Adams the last two seasons. Jake is vastly unrated.
Jake's "ratings" for 2017-2018-2019
2017  144.73 27 TD, 14 INT
2018  155.68 33 TD, 10 INT
2019  143.86 16 TD, 7 INT

Saxton's "ratings" for 2018-2019
2018 161.01 34 TD, 9 INT
2019 151.31 16 TD, 4 INT

Saxton was a better QB in his first collegiate start than Adams is now.
Adams has been a servicable QB when he's had the best receivers in the PAC, and an upper level O-line.
He has neither of those right now.
If you take an objective look at the last 10 W&J QB regulars, Adams would rank in the bottom half of that group for his career.
And this year's Adams would likely be 10th in that group.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2019, 03:52:18 PM
This conference's national "standing" should be plummeting fast....

Westminster gives away a game two weeks ago against Grove City.
CMU lost to BETHANY a week ago.
CWRU has to hold on to beat Geneva yesterday, after struggling to get by St. Vincent a week ago.
W&J puts up 500+ yards, and defense plays good enough, but Presidents lose, again.

Nothing happening in this league right now that the National Committee's going to elevate the SPARTANS very high in regional rankings.
They better hope they can finish the unbeaten run through the regular season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on October 27, 2019, 09:34:18 PM
So if Adams and Saxton switched teams what Ur saying is that Saxton would still perform better?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2019, 11:56:01 AM
Circumstances are impactful. I said for years that Tom Brady behind a lousy O-Line wouldn't be the Tom Brady we all know and hate.

If Drew Saxton had to play with this year's W&J O-Line, his numbers wouldn't be as good as they are now, but they'd be as good or better than Adams' numbers are this year.
If Drew Saxton had to play with this staff's hurry-up and throw the ball mentality, his numbers might not be as good as they are now, but they'd be as good or better than Adams' numbers are this year.

What I'm saying is that, in my opinion, Drew Saxton is a better overall quarterback than Jacob Adams.

It's not an indictment of the W&J player.  It's a hard fact of life.  Sometimes, the other guy's better than you.
If someone came on here and said that Jim Nance is a better football broadcaster than Bob Gregg, I wouldn't take that personally.  Now, if they said Joe Buck was better than me in baseball, then we'd probably have an issue.....LOL.

I didn't think what I was saying was that hard to understand but I hope I've cleared up any confusion.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on October 28, 2019, 06:03:30 PM
Crystal clear ;)I take it Ur not a fan of the current offensive philosophy?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2019, 01:17:43 PM
The current offensive philosophy, without variation, doesn't fit the personnel available.

Hurry up is fine,if that's what the game calls for and you have the personnel to make it work.
But slow down is fine, too, if that better serves the circumstances.

I've laid this particular incident out as an example several times:

Several years ago, W&J played at Mount Union in the NCAA Playoffs.
Mount had the #1 offense AND the #1 defense in Division III.
At the end of one quarter, Mount Union led 7-0.
And W&J took the ball in the second quarter and sprinted back to the line every play.
The Presidents FOUR full, complete to punt possessions in the quarter, lasted a TOTAL of about 3 minutes.
Meanwhile, in between, Mount Union was scoring four touchdowns.

My brain says this (over and over):  "we're within ONE play of Mount Union.  Let's huddle, let's use some of the clock, let's shorten the game, let's take our time, let's make sure we're ready to snap it when we're ready to snap it.  Let's give our defense, playing an incredible game so far, some time to look/talk things over, catch their breath, be really ready to go if we have to give the ball up."

A similar scenario played out at Case Western several years ago, regular season game.  Tight game in the third. CWRU goes on a long scoring drive, chunk after chunk after chunk, to pull to within one score.  W&J takes the kickoff, sprints through three plays and punts the ball back, taking all of 47 seconds off the clock, sending the defense right back out on the field.  CWRU takes advantage, drives the field, takes the lead and wins the game.

"That's who we are, that's what we do" is the explanation I've gotten every single time I've asked Coach Mike about this "philosophy"....
And I STILL don't get it.  YOU'RE in control of who you are and what you do.  Sometimes, you ought to change one, or both.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 30, 2019, 02:38:57 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2019, 03:52:18 PM
This conference's national "standing" should be plummeting fast....

Westminster gives away a game two weeks ago against Grove City.
CMU lost to BETHANY a week ago.
CWRU has to hold on to beat Geneva yesterday, after struggling to get by St. Vincent a week ago.
W&J puts up 500+ yards, and defense plays good enough, but Presidents lose, again.

Nothing happening in this league right now that the National Committee's going to elevate the SPARTANS very high in regional rankings.
They better hope they can finish the unbeaten run through the regular season.

As a occasional observer, I think the league is getting stronger.  Minus the RJ Bower/Grove City years, this has been W&J and Thomas Moore's League.  Occasionally Waynesburg, CMU, and Case made noise, but by an large, it was the Big 2 then a bunch of average/bad teams.  In other words it was very top heavy.  So when TM left the conference, I (and I assume many others)thought it was going to be W&J running away every year. 

But look at it now.  Case is standing at top, but there is not a huge drop to the next tier of teams.  There are 5 solid teams now in CWR, CMU, GCC, W&J, and Westminster.  That was not the case a few seasons ago.  These teams can provide a nice core for the conference to build off of.  Hopefully Geneva can return to their former glory, and Bethany, St Vincent, Thiel, and Waynesburg can find ways to improve also.  But the fact that there are 5 solid teams is an improvement in my eyes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 30, 2019, 03:51:07 PM
^I'm more in the mind set and agreement with Mike.

I also wonder if it's a symptom of this conference becoming stronger and more balanced for what we're seeing in this "Any Given Saturday" type of league.  I feel many of the boats are rising with the tide with legit chances to win a league championship...or at least earn more respect.  Too bad the PAC can't have more OOC games to confirm these suspicions...but Carnegie Mellon handling MIT and W & J over Wittenberg are certainly notable that this conference is above average in strength. 

EDIT: For what it's worth, I see Case Western Reserve still does not have an OOC game for 2020-2023. https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SaintsFAN on October 30, 2019, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 30, 2019, 03:51:07 PM
^I'm more in the mind set and agreement with Mike.

I also wonder if it's a symptom of this conference becoming stronger and more balanced for what we're seeing in this "Any Given Saturday" type of league.  I feel many of the boats are rising with the tide with legit chances to win a league championship...or at least earn more respect.  Too bad the PAC can't have more OOC games to confirm these suspicions...but Carnegie Mellon handling MIT and W & J over Wittenberg are certainly notable that this conference is above average in strength. 

EDIT: For what it's worth, I see Case Western Reserve still does not have an OOC game for 2020-2023. https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

Just one comment... definitely feel the PAC is better this year than in years previous... CWRU has been on my ballot since the pre-season, as was W&J.  Lets drop Witt victory from the strength of schedule argument.  They are most definitely down this year.  Its no doubt a nice win over a name-recognition school, but its comparable to beating a top 25 squad in 2019.   Neither W&J or Witt are having the types of year they've grown to expect.  It happens. 

But I do listen to what Bob Gregg says with particular interest.  Curious what will or won't happen with that program. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2019, 06:03:03 PM
The conference is more balanced, there's no question about that, though my evaluation must be taken with a grain of salt since I've "never worn the helmet or been in the arena."

For many years, after CMU left the conference, there was W&J and nobody else.
For a couple years, there was W&J and a once-a-decade or so challenger (Grove with Bowers, Thiel 2005, etc).
For a number of years, there was W&J, Thomas More and a very rare uprising from the rest.

Now, the current iteration of the PAC:
CWRU will be one of the AQ challengers EVERY year.
CMU is recommitting to getting back to that status.
W&J will be one of the AQ challengers just about every year.
Westminster has certainly recommitted to their excellent tradition but has to show the consistent ability to not implode against a middle-of-the-PAC team.
Grove City has come into a more modern, diverse approach on both sides of the ball and will be a challenger more often than not.
Bethany has been (and still is) very inconsistent, and regularly below the mid-point of the league.
Geneva has not been able to transition into DIII success yet, even after all these years.
St. Vincent is re-building from the ground up and will be a lower-tier team for the forseeeable future.
Waynesburg has to more-clearly identify where it wants to go and figure out how to get there.
Thiel has not been able to replicate 2005, or get anywhere close to that.

So, I will concur that the league is more competitive overall than it was, but is also only a decision or two from being back to a very top-heavy league.
If the well-endowed university (affiliate in football) members decide to do so, they could put significant distance on the rest of the field and turn it back into TWO-and-everybody-else league.
If one or more of the league's young up-and-coming successful coaches is lured away, those programs will struggle to replace them quickly and the League's competitiveness will take a step back.
WHEN one or more of the league's established, long-term coaches steps away, those programs will be challenged to replace coaches who have been, most years, good for 7-10 wins.

I'm still evaluating, in my un-helmeted mind, whether the league is really getting better (top-to-bottom) or if there is "some" mid-flight improvement combining with some top-tier regression....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 03, 2019, 09:14:59 AM
Can anyone in D3 top this state line by CWRU's Travis Johnston?

On D 7 tackles, a pass breakup, and a fumble recovery.
On O, two rushing TDs
ST 3 punts for 37 yd ave, blocked punt, and two KORs

Talk about your Swiss Army Knife.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2019, 09:22:05 AM
There's more and more of that happening nowadays....

Joey Koroly:
rushing  18-72, 1 td
receiving  8-55

defense  15 solo, 2 assist, 1.5 TFL, 3 INT, 10 breakups, 1 forced fumble

punt returns  7 for 12.4 ave, 1 TD
KO returns 18 for 25.9 ave, 1 TD
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 03, 2019, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2019, 09:22:05 AM
There's more and more of that happening nowadays....

Joey Koroly:
rushing  18-72, 1 td
receiving  8-55

defense  15 solo, 2 assist, 1.5 TFL, 3 INT, 10 breakups, 1 forced fumble

punt returns  7 for 12.4 ave, 1 TD
KO returns 18 for 25.9 ave, 1 TD

Pretty versatile as well, but no punting and no game with more than 4 tackles. His rushes all came in the GCC game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2019, 09:23:20 AM
As I was contemplating where the conference was/is, today's Observer-Reporter has a feature on W&J quarterback PAT AIGNER from the modern golden days at W&J...

https://observer-reporter.com/columns/aigner-was-the-epitome-of-a-leader-at-w-j/article_2b85b87c-fe85-11e9-9019-2378c54743de.html?fbclid=IwAR31vNQNDLp0-knaOinIgphRfmzpAJbd3_JYQmEyCPGRwGWD6OBAoT7x-aI
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 07, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
PAC podcast week 10:

https://youtu.be/xA7gDsbCwTA
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 09, 2019, 03:10:27 PM
W&J clinches their 36th consecutive winning season today with the win vs St Vincents.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 09, 2019, 04:30:17 PM
Don't get me wrong I'm super happy and appreciate that CWRU clinched the PAC...this is by no means an easy thing to do, especially with how balanced this league has become this year...but I don't understand why they take their foot off the gas once leading by a few scores...both offensively and defensively, they seem to switch into this "coasting" mode.

Leading 35-7 ... wins 35-19 (W & J)
Leading 30-9 ... wins 30-23 (Geneva)
Leading 27-10...wins 27-24 (Waynesburg)

I really hope this doesn't hurt them against CMU or in the Playoffs.  (and hopefully doesn't hurt regional rankings if experts are scoreboard watching).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 09, 2019, 04:32:58 PM
I'm also concerned with the offense.  We have not been able to run the ball well against some teams that are not very good, and today we were outgained by Waynesburg.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2019, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2019, 06:03:03 PM
I'm still evaluating, in my un-helmeted mind, whether the league is really getting better (top-to-bottom) or if there is "some" mid-flight improvement combining with some top-tier regression....
And today's scores certainly didn't help in my evaluation....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on November 09, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Defeating a 1-8 Waynesburg team by three points does not portend well for Case in the playoffs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 09, 2019, 07:42:45 PM
 CMU CWRU. next week should be interesting .
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2019, 02:42:11 PM
Congrats to PAC Champion Case Western Reserve University.
Win the Academic Bowl or prepare for a Round One visit to Alliance....

New D3 Top 25 leaves CWRU at 20 despite 2 teams above them last week losing...
That's what a 3-point win over 1-7 Waynesburg will do for you...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 14, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
SUNY-Maritime will probably prevent the Alliance trip. At least per today's mock bracket.

But a loss could mean Muhlenberg
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 16, 2019, 09:57:24 AM
PAC week 11 podcast: https://youtu.be/JpK7wyXLMK0
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2019, 12:17:05 PM
Less than an hour to Mensa Bowl '19. 

#20 Case Western Reserve University at Carnegie-Mellon University, 1 pm, at Gesling Stadium, Oakland.

Average IQ expected to be in the upper 150s.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 16, 2019, 03:42:47 PM
Good game between Case and Carnie as Carnie pulls off the upset. Refs tried to keep Case alive at the end with no flag and flag.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 16, 2019, 04:14:24 PM
Case outgained CMU 400-150 and first downs were 25-6 in favor of Case.  However, they did everything else wrong.  One fumble lost, three interceptions (one being a pick 6), 3 punts in the first half for a TOTAL of 32 yards, and 2 missed FGs, all while CMU had no turnovers and made a 50 yard FG.  That will almost always equal a loss.

Hopefully Case can get it together before next week.  They haven't played well the last 4 games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2019, 04:25:25 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2019, 06:03:03 PM
I'm still evaluating, in my un-helmeted mind, whether the league is really getting better (top-to-bottom) or if there is "some" mid-flight improvement combining with some top-tier regression....

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2019, 04:40:27 PM
And today's scores certainly didn't help in my evaluation....
As I said.....hmmmm.  If I had "worn the helmet" back in the day, I might be able to better evaluate this mess ...

But this conference, this year, leaves me to wonder.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V0TYIO6yv4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V0TYIO6yv4)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 17, 2019, 12:37:58 PM
Let's hope that the Spartans reverse this downward trend in the playoffs!!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on November 17, 2019, 02:22:18 PM
Quote from: Pokerplayer on November 09, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Defeating a 1-8 Waynesburg team by three points does not portend well for Case in the playoffs.

Welcome back!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 17, 2019, 03:03:11 PM
Impressive stat to note:

Props to Carnegie Mellon for defeating two Pool A Conference Champs during the regular season (NEWMAC and PAC).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2019, 05:52:26 PM
PAC 1. CWRU heads to Schenectady, NY to face Union Dutchmen (10-0).

Will be interested to see if the next 4 teams in PAC get ECAC bids:
2. Grove City 7-2
3. Carnegie-Mellon 7-2
4. Westminster 6-3
5. W&J 6-3
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: UfanBill on November 17, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
To CWR fans...as a Union fan and a frequent contributor to the Liberty League board, I look forward to interacting with Spartan fans this week. Union, one of the oldest colleges in the US(1795) is located in Schenectady(skin-neck-titty), NY near the state capital Albany. It's a straight forward but boring 450 mile drive east on I-90.  If anyone's coming the Rivers Casino with lodging is minutes from the campus. Union and CRW have a common opponent this season...Rochester. The Dutchmen and the Tartans have never met on the football field.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 17, 2019, 10:09:28 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on November 17, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
To CWR fans...as a Union fan and a frequent contributor to the Liberty League board, I look forward to interacting with Spartan fans this week. Union, one of the oldest colleges in the US(1795) is located in Schenectady(skin-neck-titty), NY near the state capital Albany. It's a straight forward but boring 450 mile drive east on I-90.  If anyone's coming the Rivers Casino with lodging is minutes from the campus. Union and CRW have a common opponent this season...Rochester. The Dutchmen and the Tartans have never met on the football field.

UfanBill,

Thanks for reaching out to us Spartans.

CWRU is known mostly as a research institution and has a fairly urban campus located on the east side of Cleveland, OH: https://www.google.com/search?q=case+western&rlz=1C1CAFA_enUS781US799&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQjqHi4PLlAhVOdt8KHRdRB2kQ_AUIFCgD&biw=1684&bih=820&dpr=1.13

That 1795 is pretty dang impressive.  CWRU's history links back to two individual universities who federated in 1967 (Case Tech and Western Reserve).  Western Reserve dates back to 1826, and one interesting fun fact I found, the first president of Case Tech hailed from Union College: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cady_Staley

Looking forward to the matchup, as Union College is certainly an unknown for us PAC folks.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 18, 2019, 08:56:16 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on November 16, 2019, 04:14:24 PM
Case outgained CMU 400-150 and first downs were 25-6 in favor of Case.  However, they did everything else wrong.  One fumble lost, three interceptions (one being a pick 6), 3 punts in the first half for a TOTAL of 32 yards, and 2 missed FGs, all while CMU had no turnovers and made a 50 yard FG.  That will almost always equal a loss.

Hopefully Case can get it together before next week.  They haven't played well the last 4 games.

I wasn't able to watch the game, but I'm pretty sure that there is a stats SNAFU in the -33 yd  punt mid-2nd quarter, so the punting wasn't as terrible as it seems. There was however a 27 yd punt with a 21 yd return to the CWRU 10 that led to the Tartan's first TD.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 18, 2019, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 18, 2019, 08:56:16 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on November 16, 2019, 04:14:24 PM
Case outgained CMU 400-150 and first downs were 25-6 in favor of Case.  However, they did everything else wrong.  One fumble lost, three interceptions (one being a pick 6), 3 punts in the first half for a TOTAL of 32 yards, and 2 missed FGs, all while CMU had no turnovers and made a 50 yard FG.  That will almost always equal a loss.

Hopefully Case can get it together before next week.  They haven't played well the last 4 games.

I wasn't able to watch the game, but I'm pretty sure that there is a stats SNAFU in the -33 yd  punt mid-2nd quarter, so the punting wasn't as terrible as it seems. There was however a 27 yd punt with a 21 yd return to the CWRU 10 that led to the Tartan's first TD.

Thanks, I should have been more skeptical of that stat I saw at halftime.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2019, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: UfanBill on November 17, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
....Schenectady(skin-neck-titty).....

ONLY in a college football message board could you find that phonetic spelling.....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 18, 2019, 11:34:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 17, 2019, 10:09:28 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on November 17, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
To CWR fans...as a Union fan and a frequent contributor to the Liberty League board, I look forward to interacting with Spartan fans this week. Union, one of the oldest colleges in the US(1795) is located in Schenectady(skin-neck-titty), NY near the state capital Albany. It's a straight forward but boring 450 mile drive east on I-90.  If anyone's coming the Rivers Casino with lodging is minutes from the campus. Union and CRW have a common opponent this season...Rochester. The Dutchmen and the Tartans have never met on the football field.

Looking forward to the matchup, as Union College is certainly an unknown for us PAC folks.

Scratch that... while Union College maybe a bit unknown to many of us casual fans... the two head coaches—Debeljak and Behrman—certainly know each other well:

Union coach Jeff Behrman is a 1995 John Carroll graduate and former Blue Streaks quarterback and team captain.

Behrman's position coach during his freshman season? Debeljak, who was a JCU assistant before taking over at Case. The two have stayed in contact over the years, and just last spring Debeljak and his staff hosted the Union staff for a type of coaching retreat.


https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-football-coach-excited-about-d-iii-playoff-matchup/article_ae19a82e-09ad-11ea-81c2-8bad1f8af2a0.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 18, 2019, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: E.115 on November 18, 2019, 11:34:30 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 17, 2019, 10:09:28 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on November 17, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
To CWR fans...as a Union fan and a frequent contributor to the Liberty League board, I look forward to interacting with Spartan fans this week. Union, one of the oldest colleges in the US(1795) is located in Schenectady(skin-neck-titty), NY near the state capital Albany. It's a straight forward but boring 450 mile drive east on I-90.  If anyone's coming the Rivers Casino with lodging is minutes from the campus. Union and CRW have a common opponent this season...Rochester. The Dutchmen and the Tartans have never met on the football field.

Looking forward to the matchup, as Union College is certainly an unknown for us PAC folks.

Scratch that... while Union College maybe a bit unknown to many of us casual fans... the two head coaches—Debeljak and Behrman—certainly know each other well:

Union coach Jeff Behrman is a 1995 John Carroll graduate and former Blue Streaks quarterback and team captain.

Behrman's position coach during his freshman season? Debeljak, who was a JCU assistant before taking over at Case. The two have stayed in contact over the years, and just last spring Debeljak and his staff hosted the Union staff for a type of coaching retreat.


https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-football-coach-excited-about-d-iii-playoff-matchup/article_ae19a82e-09ad-11ea-81c2-8bad1f8af2a0.html

Ice Bear says this is really cool. He had no clue. +k
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 18, 2019, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2019, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: UfanBill on November 17, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
....Schenectady(skin-neck-titty).....

ONLY in a college football would you find that phonetic spelling.....

Ice Bear says most keep it simple and refer to Schenectady as Shocktown, USA.

Ice says a quick look up of "Schenectady," will tell you why... ;)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: UfanBill on November 18, 2019, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2019, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: UfanBill on November 17, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
....Schenectady(skin-neck-titty).....

ONLY in a college football message board could you find that phonetic spelling.....

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Picture trying to teach someone how to pronounce Schenectady...grab some SKIN then point to your NECK and finally your TITTY.
Or you could listen to this jem.  ::) https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-omr-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=omr&p=song+from+schenectady#id=22&vid=6c3038c8be6a10731549811ecd201a0e&action=view

Schenectady of course is known as the home of Union College but back in the early days before we were even a country, think 1660s, Schenectady was settled by the Dutch and was frontier Iroquois indian country. In more modern times it was the home of General Electric founded by Thomas Edison and ALCO, American Locomotive works, which built large train locomotives. The city also had the Erie Canal running right through it and the Mohawk river. Recently it has undergone a much needed urban renewal.   

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2019, 01:21:19 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2019, 05:52:26 PM
PAC 1. CWRU heads to Schenectady, NY to face Union Dutchmen (10-0).

Will be interested to see if the next 4 teams in PAC get ECAC bids:
2. Grove City 7-2
3. Carnegie-Mellon 7-2
4. Westminster 6-3
5. W&J 6-3

Apparently, all four of these teams will be in the ECACs Saturday....
I know W&J is heading to Ithaca for a 12 noon kickoff.
I would hope that if #5 got a bid, 2-3-4 would also (all declared for such).

And, so they did (all Saturday, Nov. 23)

Clayton Chapman Bowl - Time: TBD
Westminster College (7-3) at Morrisville State (6-4)

Asa S. Bushnell Bowl - Time: 12 noon
Washington and Jefferson College (7-3) at Ithaca College (8-2)

Scotty Whitelaw Bowl - Time: 1:00 p.m.
Brevard College (7-2) at Carnegie Mellon University (8-2)

James Lynah Bowl - Time: TBD
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (6-4) at Grove City College (8-2)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2019, 01:23:53 PM
Since I also work with high school & junior high kids, we'd have probably used THIS in a pronunciation guide: skeh-NECK-tah-dee.

But, much of the difference is just circumstantial...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: UfanBill on November 18, 2019, 01:36:19 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2019, 01:23:53 PM
Since I also work with high school & junior high kids, we'd have probably used THIS in a pronunciation guide: skeh-NECK-tah-dee.

But, much of the difference is just circumstantial...

But hey, they'll remember mine.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 18, 2019, 07:55:18 PM
Ice Bear says in all seriousness he is really excited to see CWRU play this weekend. He is wishing the team, fans, etc. a safe journey East. Ice Bear guesses your arrival will be Thursday/Fridayish?

Ice knows very little about CWRU however has a healthy respect for your record and body of work this season. Ice welcomes any fans who'd like to bust out some info and players on CWRU to watch out for come Saturday. Also please don't hesitate to jump on the LLPP board as we have fun with humor but talk lots of D3 football at the core.

Ice also says if any fans are planning on making the journey please feel free to message Ice in regards to places to stay, places to eat, parking for the game, etc. ice would be glad to help any way he can.

Let's hope for a great game and most importantly no ****ing injuries on either side.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 19, 2019, 03:03:39 PM
Apparently, I'm not alone in my earlier assessment.  Wonder if the others ever "wore the helmet".....

http://pacathletics.org/news/2019/11/19/all-pac-football-teams-award-winners-announced.aspx#fb-allpac-hm18
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 19, 2019, 03:19:06 PM
I realize that statistics don't tell the whole story, but Saxton's QBER is 138.2 while Adams' is 149.38. I wonder if Saxton has some sort of injury, as the last few games his passes don't seem to me to his usual zip.

We should get an answer to your query regarding the PAC's strength from Saturday's post-season games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 19, 2019, 11:11:50 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 19, 2019, 03:19:06 PM
I wonder if Saxton has some sort of injury, as the last few games his passes don't seem to me to his usual zip.

I've been wondering the same thing.  He's been throwing off his back foot a lot and doesn't look as mobile as he did earlier in the season.  He's sure doesn't look like he's 100%.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2019, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 19, 2019, 03:19:06 PM
We should get an answer to your query regarding the PAC's strength from Saturday's post-season games.

Here's what I'm expecting Saturday:

NCAA Tournament
Case Western Reserve 31
Union 27

I'm not sure what we learn from teams with 2-3 losses beating teams with 2-4 losses in Shaughnessy Playoffs, but here they go:

Westminster College (7-3) 35
at Morrisville State (6-4) 20

Washington and Jefferson College (7-3) 14
Ithaca College (8-2) 28

Brevard College (7-2)  21
Carnegie Mellon University (8-2) 24

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (6-4) 17
Grove City College (8-2) 28

And, to be crystal clear, I DO understand what these teams get out of playing these games--another week of practice/work for underclassmen, another (final) game of wearing the helmet, being in the arena with teammates, etc.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: SpartanMom_2016 on November 20, 2019, 04:56:16 PM
For the IPA nerds among us:  skəˈnɛktədi.

I am looking forward to the game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 21, 2019, 07:49:09 AM
https://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2019/bracket-salisbury
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 21, 2019, 04:58:15 PM
Previews from both schools:

Union: https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/unionathletics.com/documents/2019/11/21/2019_11_23_Union_FB_GameNotes.pdf

Case Western Reserve:
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/3/1/z5zjaift40dzvq/fb_Union_game_notes19.pdf
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 22, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
From Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Case Western Reserve football: Winning is big a relief from tests and labs for playoff-bound Spartans

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/11/case-western-reserve-football-winning-is-big-a-relief-from-tests-and-labs-for-playoff-bound-spartans.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 22, 2019, 10:15:36 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 22, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
From Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Case Western Reserve football: Winning is big a relief from tests and labs for playoff-bound Spartans

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/11/case-western-reserve-football-winning-is-big-a-relief-from-tests-and-labs-for-playoff-bound-spartans.html

Interview with Terry Pluto:  https://www.wksu.org/post/view-pluto-case-western-reserve-football-powerhouse-field-and-classroom#stream/0

EDIt: from Cleveland.com https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2019/11/a-familiar-face-greets-case-as-spartans-mount-union-and-notre-dame-college-prepare-for-ncaa-playoffs.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 22, 2019, 10:41:17 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 22, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
From Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Case Western Reserve football: Winning is big a relief from tests and labs for playoff-bound Spartans

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/11/case-western-reserve-football-winning-is-big-a-relief-from-tests-and-labs-for-playoff-bound-spartans.html

Ice Bear says what an excellent article. Thank you for posting. This may be one of the most enjoyable student athlete D3 articles Ice Bear has read. Nothing like D3, true student athletes all day long.

Again, safe travels to all.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 22, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
Quote from: Ice Bear on November 22, 2019, 10:41:17 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 22, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
From Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Case Western Reserve football: Winning is big a relief from tests and labs for playoff-bound Spartans

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2019/11/case-western-reserve-football-winning-is-big-a-relief-from-tests-and-labs-for-playoff-bound-spartans.html

Ice Bear says what an excellent article. Thank you for posting. This may be one of the most enjoyable student athlete D3 articles Ice Bear has read. Nothing like D3, true student athletes all day long.

Again, safe travels to all.

Agreed - very well written with great focus on the individuals players.  And appreciate the kind words.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 22, 2019, 08:00:55 PM
GREAT ARTICLE: https://dailygazette.com/article/2019/11/22/union-football-ready-for-case-western-reserve-in-ncaa-tournament
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 23, 2019, 01:08:06 PM
Case leads Union College 21-3 at halftime.

Drew Saxton is having a great game.

GO SPARTANS!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 23, 2019, 02:40:44 PM
Déjà vu all over again. I know that the injury to Saxton played a part, but going conservative sitting on a halftime lead again.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 23, 2019, 02:46:20 PM
Ugh!

Couldn't hold on.

Case loses 24-21.

At least we proved that we belonged in the playoffs, and made a highly ranked team work for a victory.

Best of luck to UC the rest of the way.

On to next year!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 23, 2019, 02:55:33 PM
Was going to post the exact same thing as ADL70... then remembered I had the same thoughts after Waynesburg.

Quote from: E.115 on November 09, 2019, 04:30:17 PM
Don't get me wrong I'm super happy and appreciate that CWRU clinched the PAC...this is by no means an easy thing to do, especially with how balanced this league has become this year...but I don't understand why they take their foot off the gas once leading by a few scores...both offensively and defensively, they seem to switch into this "coasting" mode.

Leading 35-7 ... wins 35-19 (W & J)
Leading 30-9 ... wins 30-23 (Geneva)
Leading 27-10...wins 27-24 (Waynesburg)

I really hope this doesn't hurt them against CMU or in the Playoffs.

The Saxton injury was definitely a double blow ...it set up a series of events with the backup QB that led to the fumble and eventual TD...changing the momentum of the game that was entirely in the favor of CWRU... and of course hampered both execution and play calling for the rest of the game.

Congrats to Union College coming out the gate in the second half to take care of business.  The second half was certainly the Union team I was expecting.  You have a talented team and good luck the next round of the tournament.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 23, 2019, 03:01:01 PM
Down 17-0 to Ithaca W&J scored 20 points
for the win. A great way for the seniors to go out, and something to build on for next year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 23, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Here is where we stand

All Finals
W&J 20 Ithaca 17
Grove City 41 RPI 38
Westminster 35 Morrisville State 24
Union 23 CWRU 21
Brevard 42 CMU 28

Overall, a.good day for the PAC. Sorry Case couldn't hold on, but it sounds like Sexton had to leave the game. Losing a player like him against a team like Union is tough. Hope it's not serious.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: unionpalooza on November 23, 2019, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 23, 2019, 02:46:20 PM
Ugh!

Couldn't hold on.

Case loses 24-21.

At least we proved that we belonged in the playoffs, and made a highly ranked team work for a victory.

Best of luck to UC the rest of the way.

On to next year!

An kudos to CWRU for the hard fought game - that's a heck of a team, and Colt Morgan is as good a receiver as I've seen in D3. It's incredibly that he and Saxton are just sophomores.  I can't imagine this will be their only trip to the tourney.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: UfanBill on November 23, 2019, 05:42:20 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 23, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Here is where we stand

All Finals
W&J 20 Ithaca 17
Grove City 41 RPI 38
Westminster 35 Morrisville State 24
Union 23 CWRU 21
Brevard 42 CMU 28

Overall, a.good day for the PAC. Sorry Case couldn't hold on, but it sounds like Sexton had to leave the game. Losing a player like him against a team like Union is tough. Hope it's not serious.

Saxton returned to the game the next offensive series but he was not as effective. The momentum changed and Union woke up.

I just want to compliment CWRU for it's team, it's style of play, it's excellence and it's fervent fans. It was a great game. Union is fortunate to be the team moving on.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 23, 2019, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on November 23, 2019, 05:42:20 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 23, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Here is where we stand

All Finals
W&J 20 Ithaca 17
Grove City 41 RPI 38
Westminster 35 Morrisville State 24
Union 23 CWRU 21
Brevard 42 CMU 28

Overall, a.good day for the PAC. Sorry Case couldn't hold on, but it sounds like Sexton had to leave the game. Losing a player like him against a team like Union is tough. Hope it's not serious.

Saxton returned to the game the next offensive series but he was not as effective. The momentum changed and Union woke up.

I just want to compliment CWRU for it's team, it's style of play, it's excellence and it's fervent fans. It was a great game. Union is fortunate to be the team moving on.

Ice Bear says he too has the utmost respect for this Spartan team and was VERY impressed at the way they held Union listless for the first half. The Spartans completely dominated the first half hands down.

Ice Bear also says Saxton is fantastic and so is #17. This team will be back for sure and Ice Bear will always be rooting for them (unless of course they play Union or another LL team). What a great school and group of student athletes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2019, 03:00:26 PM
What I expected and what we got Saturday (PAC was 3-2, I was 2-3 in picking winners....must be something to that "being in the arena" thing...

NCAA Tournament
expected CWRU 31, Union 27
actual Union 23, CWRU 21

ECAC Bowls
expected Westminster 35, Morrisville State 20
actual  Westminster 35, Morrisville State 24

expected Ithaca 28, Wash & Jeff 14
actual Wash & Jeff 20, Ithaca 17

expected CMU 24, Brevard 21
actual Brevard 42, CMU 28

expected Grove City 28, RPI 17
actual Grove City 41, RPI 38
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 25, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
Further thoughts on the game.

Interesting shakeup in OL - Strayer from C to LT and Wyatt to C.  Wyatt is on roster as DL, but had been the sixth OL man when they went unbalanced.

The second-half injury to Chrissis at CB may have had more impact than Saxton's, although Union receivers were often open in first half but passes were mostly off the mark. They were often on target in second half.

Props to Union for battling back for the win.

Looking ahead to 2020, the offense should be solid with experience at OL and 'skilled' positions and Saxton, of course. D is another story. The DL and secondary will need rebuilding, but at LB all five LBs who started or rotated in often return. Still on word I've seen on who the non-conference will be. B-W doesn't have a game on its website, both teams would prefer home in 2020, but going to Berea isn't really far away. Millikin (5-5 in 2019 with a couple of good wins) might also be an option, if they haven't filled their schedule. But any team would be better than Rochester.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on November 25, 2019, 08:40:28 PM
Unionapalooza, Morgan is indeed a stud but he's not even the best WR in the PAC which is loaded with some really good Wrs
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 26, 2019, 05:42:08 AM
And next year All American Adam Wolf returns for W&J after missing most pf this season due to injury. .
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 26, 2019, 09:47:50 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 25, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
Further thoughts on the game.

Interesting shakeup in OL - Strayer from C to LT and Wyatt to C.  Wyatt is on roster as DL, but had been the sixth OL man when they went unbalanced.

The second-half injury to Chrissis at CB may have had more impact than Saxton's, although Union receivers were often open in first half but passes were mostly off the mark. They were often on target in second half.

Props to Union for battling back for the win.

Looking ahead to 2020, the offense should be solid with experience at OL and 'skilled' positions and Saxton, of course. D is another story. The DL and secondary will need rebuilding, but at LB all five LBs who started or rotated in often return. Still on word I've seen on who the non-conference will be. B-W doesn't have a game on its website, both teams would prefer home in 2020, but going to Berea isn't really far away. Millikin (5-5 in 2019 with a couple of good wins) might also be an option, if they haven't filled their schedule. But any team would be better than Rochester.

https://d3football.com/opendates/2020/index
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2019, 09:56:59 AM
Case vs. Brockport would be awesome.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 26, 2019, 11:04:51 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2019, 09:56:59 AM
Case vs. Brockport would be awesome.

Agreed, but same issue as with B-W. I saw that a while back, but Brockport is looking for home in 2020 as is CWRU.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 27, 2019, 02:14:46 PM
Happy Thanksgiving, all.

One of my favorite memories was traveling over Thanksgiving, in anticipation of a National Semifinal game.
Of course, that was a long time ago (35 years to be exact) but it was wild in that hotel in Pella, IA the day that Doug Flutie hooked up with Garard Phelan for the Miracle in Miami.
Players were in rooms when it happened and the whole hotel EXPLODED with the catch.....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 27, 2019, 02:51:07 PM
Fun story! I have one similar about basketball. When I was SID at Catholic, we played in the Sweet 16 and we were all in a hotel room in Wilkes-Barre when Bryce Drew hit the buzzer-beater for Valpo to upset Ole Miss.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on December 03, 2019, 08:18:25 PM
Bob Gregg - Can WJ reclaim their usual spot atop the PAC or are they destined to stay back in the "PAC" lol for the foreseeable future?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 04, 2019, 01:32:05 PM
Not sure why you ask my opinion on this particular topic.  You know that I've "never worn the helmet" and "never been in the arena".....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on December 04, 2019, 02:23:40 PM
I believe that you are a long time observer of WJ FOOTBALL and all of the PAC for that matter. Just wanted to get Ur thoughts on the topic.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on December 04, 2019, 03:11:41 PM
Bob,
The "helmet" and "arena" references are wearing thin. One doesn't have to have played "the game" to have an opinion. You have a lot of knowledge to impart. Your opinions and observations DO matter.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 04, 2019, 04:36:58 PM
Pokerplayer and Husker Four four, appreciate the notes.
The two items were very thin the first time they came to me. But, from here on, I'll leave them out.

For several years now, I've been saying that W&J has decisions to make, at the Athletics Department and higher levels.
I recognize that many, many colleges would love to be where W&J has been--at or near the top of their conference for the past 36 straight seasons.

Is that enough HERE?
The Football Program is certainly MILES ahead of where it was for many, many years through the '50s, '60s and '70s, but is where it is good enough?
It's always harder to lower your standard of living then it is to raise it.
I guess the standard was raised and I'm not all that comfortable trying to lower it.

In the words of the immortal Paul Harvey, 'here's the rest of the story"....
W&J hasn't been to the NCAA Semifinals, by my count, since 1995, the last of four straight trips (and 5 total) to the NCAA Final Four. 
Mount Union, until its loss last week, had been to the semifinals EVERY year since 1994.

W&J won PAC Championships with nearly annual regularity through the '80s, '90s and into the middle of the first decade of this century (through 2007).
The Presidents won or shared 20 championships and didn't win/share 4 times in the 24-year span of 1984-2007.

In the 12 years since, W&J has won one title outright (2018), shared four others ('12, '13, '14, '17) and not won it seven times ('08, '09, '10, '11, '15, '16, '19).
From my seat, it's hard for me to consider that "good enough."

Things are significantly different on South Lincoln Street than they were in the '80s and '90s, and somewhat different than they were at the beginning of this century.  I recognize that.

So, once again, I'll say that the Athletic Department and the College have to decide if winning the PAC five times and not winning it seven times in the NEXT 12 years is good enough.

And, just so there's no ambiguity about where I stand on the issue:  5-7 is NOT good enough.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on December 05, 2019, 10:46:42 AM
Thanks for Ur insight. So how would you suggest the School upgrade? Improve the facilities? Loosen up enrollment?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 08, 2019, 06:31:05 PM
Loosening enrollment is NOT going to happen, certainly NOT as it was back in the day (several specific players).  CMU & CWRU still attract top-flight students who are outstanding athletes.  W&J must decide/commit to getting some of those players, or be accepting of finishing even with or behind them in most years.

One of the biggest challenges W&J faces is the "need" package available to W&J students vs. that offered specifically by the two "research-endowed" universities (CMU & CWRU).  At this point, there's NO WAY for W&J to come close to the package offered there because there just isn't the endowment (or its generated interest) available.

Facilities are not the determining factor in most instances. Financial assistance and what the total outlay afterward is.

IF the College decides that returning to that historic level of success on a regular basis is something it wants to do, ALUMNI are going to have to be challenged to grow the general endowment by a significant amount.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on December 08, 2019, 09:27:07 PM
Bob,

I aways appreciate your perspective.  You have been much closer to the athletic program than I, but as someone who has been involved in many ways with W&J for over 50 years, I have some perspective that might be useful.

I agree that W&J has not and will not significantly reduce admissions standards for athletes, but like all schools, recruited athletes may get extra consideration, just like they do at  Ivy League and other highly competitive schools, including, I'm sure, CMU and Case. That is one thing we have learned from the recent college admissions scandals.

Based on the source of all knowledge, Wikipedia,  the endowment per student is:

CMU $170,000
Case $158,000
W&J $100,000

I have no idea how these relate since CMU and Case have extensive graduate programs and research initiatives to fund, but I would guess that W&J's endowment is competitive with peer schools such as Allegheny and others, and their financial packages are competitive as well.

. Is it enough? of course not. Does the college recognize that? Of course. A major shake up in higher education is coming, and W&J recognizes that and will take the steps necessary to be there and able to thrive when it is over.

W&J recently completed a very successful capital campaign under the leadership of my friend, classmate and fraternity brother Richard Clark (retired Chair and CEO of Merck) that focused on raising endowment. Look for more of the same sooner rather than later

Separate fund raising initiatives have focused on athletic/recreational facilities and I would venture to say that ours are among the top in Div III. For example, the NCAA d3 regional Baseball tournament has been held at W&J the last  2 or 3 years and the field house just completed a major renovation. Cameron Stadium continues to be a top D3 facility. Other initiatives are focused on academic and residence facilities. The goal is to do this without impacting tuition and fees. Alumni are clearly stepping up.

So, where does Dr Knapp, W&J's new president, view the role of athletics in a liberal arts education? Early indications are that he respects the role athletics have played and wants that to continue. None pf W&j's coaches have resigned since he took over, the AD is still in place. Those are good signs, and W&J is getting stronger in other sports as well.

I don't know where W&J  ultimately wants to be in football, but I know it won't be to be Mt Union. I don't know how they do it year after year, but I doubt their model is one W&J (or Case or CMU) would follow. I don't think just being "competitive" in the PAC , however, will be enough. I suspect the goal will continue to be to win the conference and compete for a national championship.

On a side note, W&J's comeback vs Ithaca was a huge momentum builder as they move into recruiting season and prepare for next year.







Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 10, 2019, 06:16:57 PM
WJ68, I'll try to share, in order, my thoughts based on your post.
I have not been as close to the athletic program in the last 12-15 years as I was before that. During the two previous coaching administrations, there were always alumni gatherings/breakfasts, particularly when we traveled any distance for road games or playoffs. We were always invited to those events, usually asked to speak/share thoughts about the team, the opponent and the game. I don't know whether those events still occur or not. We're not invited to participate. That's not "sour grapes" that's just a statement of fact and distance from the program.

I, too, have been involved with W&J for more than 50 years now, in many ways.  And, while neither alum nor employee, I have always had a special bond with the College.

There were times, particularly when Lucky was HC and Howie was President, that admission standards weren't always as strict regarding a player (or two or more).  Sometimes, Lucky needed somebody to play, Howie wanted to be the President of a Stagg Bowl winning institution, and they got in.  It's the way it was done in a different era.  Coach Sirianni doesn't get those admissions, or at least not as many, nor ones as far off the standard as Lucky did.  At least, that's what I'm led to believe. But we'd all be foolish to think that every athlete at W&J meets every single standard that every other student meets.

You've listed the endowment/student.  And, while relevant, misses the point of the TOTAL available.  W&J (1,360 total students), CWRU (5,150) and CMU (13,900) are not in the same ZIP codes in terms of total endowment money available for "need assistance".  All three have similar size rosters, in football and every other sport.  By shear total dollars, both CWRU and CMU (the research universities I referenced in my original post) have significantly more money available to attract and acquire that academically upper level student who is also a great athlete. It's simply a matter of numbers.  Same number of athletes drawing funds from VASTLY different sized pools of money.

I would assume, without Wikipedia sourcing, that W&J's endowment pool is similar in size to those "peer schools" as you call them. Part of the decision-making that I referenced has to do with determining exactly with which schools W&J would like to be a "peer."  At least as far as football goes, I don't think the Gators are the Presidents 'measuring stick,' going 45-75 over the 12 year period that I've used in previous posts on this topic. I will grant that Mount Union isn't the stick W&J is going to use either, but it certainly is going to be closer to Mount than Allegheny.

Dr. Knapp and I have talked about the changing landscape of post-secondary education and how schools like W&J are going to not only survive but thrive in the "brave new world" that is coming.  I'm excited by the vision he brings to the College in this regard.

The facilities, particularly athletic, are well-positioned for the coming decades that will see the end of my time on the planet.  And the on-going upgrading of residence and instructional buildings is being well-funded and well-received, both by students and by the Washington, PA community. Sports other than football have been blossoming with PAC championships, NCAA tournament participations and a trip or two to the highest levels of their sports' championship fields.

I know that Dr. Knapp values the role of athletics in higher education. For me, the question isn't whether athletics are valued, but rather at what level.  This is the crucial question that I've been asking for several years, specifically in regards to football.  Is what's happened over these 12 years "sufficient" return on the value placed?  If it is, so be it.  Fans of W&J athletics, football & basketball in particular, had to adjust to a changing landscape when both sports were de-emphasized (football in the 1930's, basketball some years later). Perhaps fans of W&J football today will have to make a similar adjustment. Perhaps we should have already done so...

I know the model will not be that of Mount Union.  And we've seen the fallout of students leaving Alliance for other institutions--something NO school should really want to have happen.  Attracting, keeping and graduating students is the most efficient model of higher education.  You need to hit 90% or better on that goal or you're throwing lots of money out the window.

I guess, for me, specifically regarding football, it comes down to this:  W&J hasn't truly competed for a national championship since at least 2006, probably longer than that. IF competing for a football national championship is the goal, actions to bring that into the realm of possible must be forthcoming.

Finally, on the recruiting front, W&J has allowed its home garden to be harvested by others while we've been off fishing in other people's ponds. For example, ITHACA sits in the living room of a Thomas Jefferson wide receiver who just finished the Jaguars' state championship playoff run.  If my source is correct, W&J hasn't been in that living room.  WHY?  Thomas Jefferson USED to be a feeder school for great W&J football teams. Today's W&J roster includes TWO TJ players--a transfer defensive back and a freshman tight end who never saw the field.  Again, according to my source, a phone call to a coach is about as hard as W&J recruits TJ nowadays....I don't get it.

It used to be, if you were a capable student (grades, scores) who could play the game at a lower DII level or even I-AA and you were from the WPIAL, you were courted by the Presidents.  Those who chose to go D-II or I-AA were told, firmly, that if where they went didn't work out, remember that you're wanted at W&J.  And many of those players helped win/share 20 conference titles in 24 years. 

Why do we go off fishing the DMV (Delaware/Maryland/Virginia) or Ohio and not aggressively cultivate this garden, here at home?  Why is W&J NOT being made into THE PLACE TO BE for those athletes again?

WJ68, I appreciate your work on behalf of your alma mater.  And, hopefully, I'll not be facing a decision of standards adjusting in the coming couple of years.  We will see.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 13, 2019, 12:08:00 PM
Congratulations to former W&J head coach John Luckhardt for being named to the 2020 California University of Pennsylvania Hall of Fame class.

After leaving W&J as its then winningest head football coach (137-37-2 from 1982-1998--17 years), Luckhardt then became Cal U's winningest football coach with an 88-33 record over 10 years (2002-2011).  As he did at W&J, Lucky raised his team's performance to the top levels of the sport, winning/sharing PSAC West title in each of his final 7 seasons and leading the Vulcans to three consecutive NCAA D-II national semifinals.

All-told, John Luckhardt was the winning head coach 225 times from 1982-2011 and coached his team in two D-III National championship games and eight D-II/D-III national semifinals. Lucky's head coaching record checks in at 225-70-2 (.761 winning percentage).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on December 13, 2019, 05:21:30 PM
The COSIDA Academic All America teams were announced today. Of the eight PAC athletes named, 6 are majoring in Business/Finance/ Accounting, including all 5 from Case and CMU and W&J's awardee. The others are a Math major from Grove City and an Education/History major from Theil.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 19, 2019, 12:47:07 AM
Looks like Case Western Reserve just landed a pretty solid fullback:

Dom Wade - Laurel (New Castle, PA) https://www.hudl.com/profile/10219696/Dom-Wade

Commitment listed here: https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-football/2019/12/18/WPIAL-recruiting-notebook-McGuffey-CJ-Cole-West-Virginia-Highlands-Johnny-Crise-Penn-State/stories/201912180009
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 19, 2019, 03:57:36 PM
According to team-provided stats,

Wade  143 carries, 773 yards, 5.4 yd/carry average.

also was 5-11 passing for 35 yards and a touchdown.

Wade scored 10 touchdowns and a pair of 2-point conversions.

Saxton will appreciate his blocking, that's for sure.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 19, 2019, 04:41:28 PM
W&J's Mike Williams named AP Division III All-American

https://gopresidents.com/news/2019/12/19/football-mike-williams-named-to-associated-press-division-iii-all-america-team.aspx?utm_medium=sidearm-email&utm_source=gopresidents.com&utm_campaign=Football%3a+Mike+Williams+named+to+Associated+Press+Division+III+All-America+Team&utm_content=3089a68b-1661-49b4-a535-bc0eb1085858
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 20, 2019, 03:54:01 PM
Quote from: E.115 on December 19, 2019, 12:47:07 AM
Looks like Case Western Reserve just landed a pretty solid fullback:

Dom Wade - Laurel (New Castle, PA) https://www.hudl.com/profile/10219696/Dom-Wade

Commitment listed here: https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-football/2019/12/18/WPIAL-recruiting-notebook-McGuffey-CJ-Cole-West-Virginia-Highlands-Johnny-Crise-Penn-State/stories/201912180009

Wade looks quite athletic and quick, but he played in a small school division and may have been a man among boys. I've seen listings for him at 6' or 6'1 and from 220 to 240#. He also played LB, which is not a particular need for CWRU. I could see him at DE which is a need with graduation of both Brown and Poltrack. He could then be used in short yardage situations at RB.

Spartans also have commitments from two potential QBs to backup Saxton, nether of them are very big though. Wilhelmy from Lakewood was Div II District HM. The second got honors as a DB however.
 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 22, 2019, 08:45:09 PM
He looks like a LOAD at Fullback!!!

Perfect for goal line and short yardage; let's hope that he's also a good blocker and receiver out of the backfield; he could be a Division III version of Moose Johnson!

Good to see that he ranks #1 in his class with a 4.33 GPA.  Hopefully, he's taken all Honors and AP classes, and will epitomize the "ideal" CWRU jock; that is to say, a guy that's good at DIII sports while also being a top student/high caliber intellectual.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 24, 2019, 12:55:33 PM
Happy Holidays, All!  Enjoy the people around you each day.  We are not promised tomorrow.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on December 24, 2019, 04:57:50 PM
And the same to you, Bob, and the the rest of the PAC commentators on this board.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: The Mole on December 31, 2019, 02:55:43 PM
W&J Football in the decade was 86-24 overall with 5 PAC titles/5 NCAA bids and 3 ECAC bowl victories. I know it was discussed below, but most programs would envy that type of track record. National championship caliber? Probably not, but not too shabby in the big picture.

The top 5 in the conference (CWRU, W&J, Westminster, Carnegie Mellon & Grove City) are not cakewalks week in and out. The rest of the teams need to improve, but overall its good football, similar to the Centennial with Hopkins, Muhlenberg, Susquehanna, F&M, Dickinson and Ursinus. Would like to see more OOC games amongst this group, but I know its tough with the 10 team leagues.

Happy New Year
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 07, 2020, 04:55:49 PM
Drat! Looks like SoS killing Rochester will be the opener again for CWRU. Perhaps not in 2021 as that is still TBD on website
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 09, 2020, 11:19:42 AM
Waiting to hear that these TJ studs have been reached to by W&J:

QB Shane Stump (4.0+ student, mobile and can throw, undersized but tough, would start quickly)
WR Daniel Deabner (mentioned earlier--heard an Ithaca visit is happening...would be a shame to let this kid get away)
TE James Martinis (again, undersized but tough as nails, agile, would be a great 2nd TE, slot/run blocker)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 09, 2020, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: The Mole on December 31, 2019, 02:55:43 PM
W&J Football in the decade was 86-24 overall with 5 PAC titles/5 NCAA bids and 3 ECAC bowl victories. I know it was discussed below, but most programs would envy that type of track record. National championship caliber? Probably not, but not too shabby in the big picture.
Mole, those numbers are what they are.  5 PAC titles in 10 years.  5 NCAA bids in 10 years.  MOST programs would envy that record.

But the question continues to be this:  Does W&J see itself as "most programs"?  That's really what it comes down to.

If the answer is no, I'll look forward to that 5-in-10 getting back to 8-in-10.
If the answer is yes, I'll be looking forward to doing/watching someone else on Saturday afternoons.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 13, 2020, 09:43:17 PM
HUGE news out of Mount Union today, with not only the departure of Vince Kehres to Toledo, and the impending retirement of Larry Kehres.

All kinds of talk about what's happening there, the triggers, etc.

Upcoming tightening of academics, administrative power struggles (which, apparently Larry Kehres won previously), fallout from less than desired student/athlete retention (a point we talked about earlier in this thread)...

Will this be simply a blip on the OAC, or will dominoes start falling all across Division III?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on January 14, 2020, 07:05:26 AM
I wonder if Mike Sirianni would be considered/interested in the job.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 14, 2020, 07:53:29 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on January 14, 2020, 07:05:26 AM
I wonder if Mike Sirianni would be considered/interested in the job.
At least one person on the OAC board thinks so:

Quote from: hsbsballcoach7 on January 13, 2020, 04:03:39 PM
Obviously there will be an extensive search, but since LK is in charge of it, I'm not worried honestly. There are so many guys in D3 and HS that will be ALL OVER THIS! This is one reason I don't think Dartt or Kappas left yet.
My short list:
Dartt
Kappas
Mike Sirianni
Jason Lewis
Matt Kostelnik
I'm sure some national guys will be interested too.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on January 14, 2020, 09:41:23 PM
I've always thought that the only DIII job Mike would leave for is .MU.  I'm sure he is on the VERY short list. I can see reasons he would stay, but more why he would go. Mike will make the decision he thinks is best for him, and I respect that, and the contribution he has made during his 20+ years at W&J .

If he goes, and I hope he doesn't, I think the W&J job will be an attractive one. Timing isn't the best for recruiting. DC is an emerging talent, but not ready to be HC., although Mike had about the same amount of experience when he became HC, but as OC.

Bob, what do you think?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 15, 2020, 12:21:59 PM
I will echo your first point, WJ68--I've always thought that Mount is the only D3 job that Coach Sirianni would leave W&J for.

Despite all the posts on the OAC board (and elsewhere), what we don't know for sure is what the ADMINISTRATIVE situation is at Mount.
Regime change creates all kinds of issues, as Coach Sirianni, Coach Banaszak, Coach Luckhardt all know full well.

IF Coach Sirianni leaves, the W&J job would be an attractive one.  And I don't, at this point, see the next HC on the current staff.

Would some former assistants under previous HCs be interested?
Would current HCs at other PAC schools be interested?
Is there a rising star coordinator out there who's ready for his first HC position?

Dominoes are lined up...let's see how they fall.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 18, 2020, 08:09:53 PM
A couple shout outs for a recent Case Western Reserve assistant coach Jerry Schuplinski who is a rising star in NFL circuit ... plus a few quotes from Coach Debeljak. 

From the NY Post:

Daniel Jones' new Giants mentor even left Dan Marino impressed

https://nypost.com/2020/01/18/daniel-jones-new-giants-mentor-even-left-dan-marino-impressed/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on January 20, 2020, 04:36:19 PM
And Joe Philbin '84 joins his former boss as OL Coach in Dallas.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 21, 2020, 02:16:23 PM
Potentially a replacement for Cameron Brown. First Team DI All-Ohio DE Kaden Tong. Other DLs in that group include two OSU commits and the others with FBS and FCS scholarship offers. Per Scouting Ohio he had an offer from FCS-NS Valparaiso. Interestingly there seems to be frequent competition between CWRU and Valpo for recruits.

https://twitter.com/ktong_11

https://www.hudl.com/profile/7843316/Kaden-Tong
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 22, 2020, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on January 14, 2020, 09:41:23 PM
Bob, what do you think?
I listened to the D3Football podcast earlier today.

Some thoughts, vis a vis the question here:

High profile job that's been at the top of the mountain for a long time.
VK won two national championships, and was eliminated this year by the eventual national champion, and posters (on OAC board) questioned the coaching job.
Only two ways new coach can go taking this job:  maintain program at this level or go down.

Bottom line question for Coach Sirianni is this:  does he believe he can maintain the program at the very top of DIII and, if so, can he convince new administration at UMU of that?

As I said on the OAC board, if Dartt wants the job and health issues are behind him, the job is his.  He gets to answer the questioning, the challenging.

If not, does Mike Sirianni WANT the job, is he the coach to follow the legendary coaching family, and can he convince others of his ability to maintain the national championship pedigree?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on January 22, 2020, 02:57:56 PM
Bob,

If I were Mike I'd want to be convinced the "new administration" will give the next coach the same level of support the Kehres' enjoyed.  I can't imagine going into a situation where the expectations will continue at the current level but the constrains on the athletic department are increased making it even more difficult to meet those expectations. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HSCTiger74 on January 22, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
Posters on the OAC board reporting that Dartt got the job.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2020, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on January 22, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
Posters on the OAC board reporting that Dartt got the job.

I mean, news outlets doing it as well -- such as D3football.com. Check it out!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 23, 2020, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2020, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on January 22, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
Posters on the OAC board reporting that Dartt got the job.

I mean, news outlets doing it as well -- such as D3football.com. Check it out!
Not at 4:23 pm, when the first posting on the OAC board had it, they weren't.  I checked it out!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2020, 11:12:14 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on January 23, 2020, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2020, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on January 22, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
Posters on the OAC board reporting that Dartt got the job.

I mean, news outlets doing it as well -- such as D3football.com. Check it out!
Not at 4:23 pm, when the first posting on the OAC board had it, they weren't.  I checked it out!

OK -- but at 6:40, when you made your post, we did have it, and had had it for about 2 hours. :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 23, 2020, 11:28:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2020, 11:12:14 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on January 23, 2020, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2020, 11:21:46 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on January 22, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
Posters on the OAC board reporting that Dartt got the job.

I mean, news outlets doing it as well -- such as D3football.com. Check it out!
Not at 4:23 pm, when the first posting on the OAC board had it, they weren't.  I checked it out!

OK -- but at 6:40, when you made your post, we did have it, and had had it for about 2 hours. :)
I made MY most recent post on the topic at 2:29 pm yesterday.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2020, 12:05:06 PM
Sorry, Bob -- I didn't look closely to realize you were jumping in to respond to my response to HSCTiger's comment. When HSCTiger74 posted at 6:40 p.m. ET, we'd had the info on the site for quite some time.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 23, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
With Mt Union's OC promoted to HC. Would Kevin Burke be a candidate for Raider's OC?  Would probably require him to hang up his cleats and forego playing in Europe. They also have Kyle Miller an alum with NFL experience on staff.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 23, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
Pat, it's all good.  It's been a hectic 10 days all over, especially for being mid-January....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 23, 2020, 09:23:06 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on January 09, 2020, 11:19:42 AM
Waiting to hear that these TJ studs have been reached to by W&J:

QB Shane Stump (4.0+ student, mobile and can throw, undersized but tough, would start quickly)
WR Daniel Deabner (mentioned earlier--heard an Ithaca visit is happening...would be a shame to let this kid get away)
TE James Martinis (again, undersized but tough as nails, agile, would be a great 2nd TE, slot/run blocker)
Heard today that Deabner is going to IUP (D-II).  He's undersized for D-II.
Hopefully, W&J has talked to him enough that if it doesn't work there, he'll have a place to land.

Haven't heard a word yet on Stump or Martinis.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 24, 2020, 09:27:27 AM
Coach Debs interview and reflection on the season:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=CAwCPXjXNRg

EDIT: towards the end, there's a mention of a transfer wide receiver from Duquesne for next fall.  Anyone know who that is?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 24, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
You beat me posting the interview.

Perhaps this guy who doesn't have a picture in their 2019 online roster?
https://www.ncsasports.org/football-recruiting/pennsylvania/beaver/beaver-area-senior-high-school1/matt-lipinski [link fixed]

CWRU has 2020 Spring Roster up, but he's not there whoever he may be. RB Sam Jenkins is returning for medical year, after he lost 2019 to injury. LS Kanyon Combs also returns after missing 2019
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 24, 2020, 02:39:33 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 24, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
You beat me posting the interview.

Perhaps this guy who doesn't have a picture in their 2019 online roster?
https://www.ncsasports.org/football-recruiting/pennsylvania/beaver/beaver-area-senior-high-school1/matt-lipinski

CWRU has 2020 Spring Roster up, but he's not there whoever he may be. RB Sam Jenkins is returning for medical year, after he lost 2019 to injury. LS Kanyon Combs also returns after missing 2019

I wonder if NCAA transfer rules not allow him to be on the Spring roster?

BTW --your link is missing the "h"
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 24, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
You can transfer in and participate in the spring. If you were eligible at your old school, you are eligible immediately at an NCAA Division III school you transfer to. (Some intraconference transfers have conference rules which apply.)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 25, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
If it's not a first-year player this could be how he gets to CWRU - https://www.duq.edu/academics/schools/natural-and-environmental-sciences/academics/departments-and-programs/dual-degree-programs/binary-engineering-program
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 28, 2020, 03:07:20 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on January 23, 2020, 09:23:06 PM
Heard today that Deabner is going to IUP (D-II).  He's undersized for D-II.
Hopefully, W&J has talked to him enough that if it doesn't work there, he'll have a place to land.

Haven't heard a word yet on Stump or Martinis.
Just got word that Stump has committed to Duquesne..."Another one bites the dust."

Hunter Ruokonen, receiver, also commits to Duquesne..."and ANOTHER ONE GONE, and another one gone."
This GARDEN is getting picked bare...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 30, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
Interesting and happy to see — Case Western Reserve just landed a 1st Team All-Ohio DE who had a scholarship offer from FCS Butler:

https://mobile.twitter.com/john_dinko?lang=en

Welcome!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 31, 2020, 10:32:01 AM
That makes two All-Ohio 1st team DEs. The one I posted earlier, Kaden Tong, is from a DI program and also reportedly had an offer from Valpo, another Pioneer Conf team.

Also this 6'4 290 OL https://twitter.com/pkelly___
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on January 31, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: E.115 on January 30, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
Interesting and happy to see — Case Western Reserve just landed a 1st Team All-Ohio DE who had a scholarship offer from FCS Butler:

https://mobile.twitter.com/john_dinko?lang=en

Welcome!

Umm... that would be real interesting since Butler is in the Pioneer League and does NOT offer athletic scholarships. Maybe he had an academic scholarship.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 31, 2020, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: jknezek on January 31, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: E.115 on January 30, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
Interesting and happy to see — Case Western Reserve just landed a 1st Team All-Ohio DE who had a scholarship offer from FCS Butler:

https://mobile.twitter.com/john_dinko?lang=en

Welcome!

Umm... that would be real interesting since Butler is in the Pioneer League and does NOT offer athletic scholarships. Maybe he had an academic scholarship.

His twitter post merely said "offer" not scholarship. I do see a number of prospects who are being recruited by both CWRU and Valpo and Butler.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on January 31, 2020, 11:41:23 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on January 31, 2020, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: jknezek on January 31, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: E.115 on January 30, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
Interesting and happy to see — Case Western Reserve just landed a 1st Team All-Ohio DE who had a scholarship offer from FCS Butler:

https://mobile.twitter.com/john_dinko?lang=en

Welcome!



His twitter post merely said "offer" not scholarship. I do see a number of prospects who are being recruited by both CWRU and Valpo and Butler.

Umm... that would be real interesting since Butler is in the Pioneer League and does NOT offer athletic scholarships. Maybe he had an academic scholarship.

Kind of like an offer from a D3 school? You show up and pay room, board and tuition and we OFFER you space on the practice field to see if you can play? Look, I'm all for kids celebrating their achievements. Happy to see anyone rejoicing in their signing day. But a non-scholarship school, whether it is DI or DIII, is offering you admission to the school. That's pretty much it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 31, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
And to the same point commitments don't really mean anything unless the player shows up and enrolls, even if the commitment is a tuition deposit. Sometimes those "offers" are conditioned on admission to the school.

Anyhow, this stuff keeps us d3 geeks off the streets and thinking about the upcoming season. It is also interesting to see what other schools a player has considered.

Here's what a CWRU "offer" looks like.

https://twitter.com/RobMclaughlin72/status/1138258127873331207/photo/1
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mustang on January 31, 2020, 01:34:29 PM
I had a son "offered" by Butler. It was basically the HC telling him he had a roster spot if he wanted it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 31, 2020, 11:36:27 PM
Duquesne WR revealed https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/bios/cain_aidan_qk4h

https://goduquesne.com/sports/football/roster/aidan-cain/7441

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-football/2018/02/09/Mt-Lebanon-Aidan-Cain-wide-receiver-Gateway-Brady-Walker-quarterback/stories/201802090013  [disclaimer Dayton and Morehead don't award football scholarships]

2019 season cut short by injury? He reportedly had two ACL tears in HS.

Since he only played in two games in his sophomore season, I believe that would be considered a redshirt year in FCS whether medical or not, so he would have 3 years eligibility remaining.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 02, 2020, 10:32:39 AM
Another big (6'6 270 HM All-Eastern PA) OL guy.  https://twitter.com/Aweeber21

https://www.hudl.com/profile/7603814/Austin-Weeber
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on February 02, 2020, 06:12:30 PM
Those are definitely two good "gets."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on April 05, 2020, 12:25:38 AM
A flashback from what seems like a hundred years ago....

https://observer-reporter.com/sports/when-sports-were-played-w-j-beats-allegheny-in-87-snow-bowl/article_8af425bc-706f-11ea-860f-4bcc8c191da7.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on April 16, 2020, 08:24:51 AM
Neat shoutout to the incoming players and families.

Case Western Reserve is again announcing via Twitter 2 incoming players a day, along with high school / state they're coming from:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CWRUFootball
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 17, 2020, 02:59:45 PM
I have identified 37 players who have had commitments posted on social media. Of those, 28 have been welcomed on Twitter, which I presume means that they have deposited tuition. With several players who have expressed interest via twitter and the usual surprises, this class could number in the 40s. That would rival the 44 that entered in 2017 This class is a big step up from the last two with only 25 players each. Several All-Ohio players are in this group and overall there are a number of good sized players at OL, RB, DE, and QB.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on April 24, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
Cool history fact for the Spartan fans out there.

Article from Forbes highlighting the 1918 college football season, and Case Tech received an indirect shout out:

The 1918 season was also noteworthy for the head coaching debut of Knute Rockne. The 30-year-old's first game in charge of the Notre Dame sideline, following four years as an assistant in South Bend, was a late-September victory over Case Tech (known today as Case Western Reserve) in Cleveland.

Coronavirus Sports Shutdown Brings To Mind 1918, When Spanish Flu And WWI Disrupted College Football

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberger/2020/04/20/spanish-influenza-world-war-i-wreaked-havoc-on-1918-college-football-season/#e2f7e0457c9e

Case Tech actually played Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio State that season.  The Notre Dame game was home in Cleveland.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on April 24, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
Quote from: E.115 on April 24, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
Cool history fact for the Spartan fans out there.

Article from Forbes highlighting the 1918 college football season, and Case Tech received an indirect shout out:

The 1918 season was also noteworthy for the head coaching debut of Knute Rockne. The 30-year-old's first game in charge of the Notre Dame sideline, following four years as an assistant in South Bend, was a late-September victory over Case Tech (known today as Case Western Reserve) in Cleveland.

Coronavirus Sports Shutdown Brings To Mind 1918, When Spanish Flu And WWI Disrupted College Football

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberger/2020/04/20/spanish-influenza-world-war-i-wreaked-havoc-on-1918-college-football-season/#e2f7e0457c9e

Case Tech actually played Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio State that season.  The Notre Dame game was home in Cleveland.

E.115

Case is not the only school to play some "big"schools.
Mount Union, over the years, has played: Michigan,Michigan St.,Notre Dame, Ohio State and Pittsburgh.
Toal record for these games - Mount Union: Wins 0
                                                                Losses 16
So we have experience with the marquis names as well.  :'(  :o  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on April 25, 2020, 12:33:12 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on April 24, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
Quote from: E.115 on April 24, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
Cool history fact for the Spartan fans out there.

Article from Forbes highlighting the 1918 college football season, and Case Tech received an indirect shout out:

The 1918 season was also noteworthy for the head coaching debut of Knute Rockne. The 30-year-old's first game in charge of the Notre Dame sideline, following four years as an assistant in South Bend, was a late-September victory over Case Tech (known today as Case Western Reserve) in Cleveland.

Coronavirus Sports Shutdown Brings To Mind 1918, When Spanish Flu And WWI Disrupted College Football

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberger/2020/04/20/spanish-influenza-world-war-i-wreaked-havoc-on-1918-college-football-season/#e2f7e0457c9e

Case Tech actually played Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio State that season.  The Notre Dame game was home in Cleveland.

E.115

Case is not the only school to play some "big"schools.
Mount Union, over the years, has played: Michigan,Michigan St.,Notre Dame, Ohio State and Pittsburgh.
Toal record for these games - Mount Union: Wins 0
                                                                Losses 16
So we have experience with the marquis names as well.  :'(  :o  ;D

Ha!  Well I'd say you guys totally redeemed yourselves in later years with 13 national titles.

Interestingly enough, this specific 1918 Case Tech team had a brutal opening schedule, starting with Notre Dame, Michigan, and then...Mount Union! (tough 0-3 start)  https://case.edu/its/archives/Seasons/cfoot1918.htm

So noteworthy Mount also played the big boys of Case Tech back in the day as well :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2020, 02:34:06 PM
In the 1940's and 1950's Hardin-Simmons was in the Border Conference, Texas Tech. UT-El Paso, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Arizona, Arizona State, and Northern Arizona
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 25, 2020, 04:05:29 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on April 24, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
Quote from: E.115 on April 24, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
Cool history fact for the Spartan fans out there.

Article from Forbes highlighting the 1918 college football season, and Case Tech received an indirect shout out:

The 1918 season was also noteworthy for the head coaching debut of Knute Rockne. The 30-year-old's first game in charge of the Notre Dame sideline, following four years as an assistant in South Bend, was a late-September victory over Case Tech (known today as Case Western Reserve) in Cleveland.

Coronavirus Sports Shutdown Brings To Mind 1918, When Spanish Flu And WWI Disrupted College Football

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberger/2020/04/20/spanish-influenza-world-war-i-wreaked-havoc-on-1918-college-football-season/#e2f7e0457c9e

Case Tech actually played Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio State that season.  The Notre Dame game was home in Cleveland.

E.115

Case is not the only school to play some "big"schools.
Mount Union, over the years, has played: Michigan,Michigan St.,Notre Dame, Ohio State and Pittsburgh.
Toal record for these games - Mount Union: Wins 0
                                                                Losses 16
So we have experience with the marquis names as well.  :'(  :o  ;D
...must have been money games...  ;)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on April 25, 2020, 06:09:46 PM

E.115

Gave you a +K because I always read your stuff and I'm a huge Case Western Reserve fan. Yes, Mount has 13 national titles but nowhere near your academic reputation.
Go Spartans!  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on April 26, 2020, 08:29:33 PM
John Sacco's blogpost on W&J's Mike Sirianni


https://sportsinthesac.blogspot.com/2020/04/emotional-year-for-sirianni-hasnt.html?fbclid=IwAR0ZmJ-uOuLWv73hAVDYbEayYPc3hdeK6YSJfYJIE3327z_Ae2i2Y9BKqFY
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 01, 2020, 08:53:08 AM
With today's Twitter "Welcome" announcement for All-Ohio Safety Marco Toth, there is a very real possibility that the Spartan's D backfield could have three Mentor Cardinal alums, if not this upcoming season then the following. DJ Wolf started one game last season as a freshman and will likely be a starter in the fall. And joining them is another 2024 class addition, CB Sonny Oddo.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 01, 2020, 07:46:59 PM
^ Great news.  The last two announced on the CWRU Football Twitter page look like they could both get some playing time as freshmen:

Marco Toth, DB - Mentor, OH

- Div 1 1st Team All-Ohio
- 1 of 614 ranking in his class!

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/high-school-sports/football/mentors-marco-toth-to-play-football-at-case-western-reserve/article_644e685a-8bdb-11ea-9ca1-b30e7b82e4df.html

Riley Knurek, WR - North Royalton, OH

- 4.5 speed

https://northroyaltonathletics.com/2019/09/30/royalton-recorder-riley-knurek-the-bears-big-play-guy/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 02, 2020, 04:59:40 PM
Speaking of the former "big time" history of Case Tech and Western Reserve football, here are some interesting tidbits.

Western Reserve is the only Ohio school with an all-time winning record against Ohio State (6-5-1).  Last meeting 1934.

The 1902 Case team scored the first touchdown ever against a Fielding Yost coached Michigan team (he had started his career at Michigan with TWELVE straight shutouts!).

Case Tech has a 10-11-2 record against Ohio State all time.

Alabama's first game in the north occurred against Western Reserve in 1920.

Western Reserve defeated Arizona State in the 1941 Sun Bowl.

Ohio's first televised college game was in 1948 between Western Reserve and Kent State; a Mid-American Conference matchup.  Western Reserve continued to play in the MAC until 1954.

Now..............here's the MOST amazing thing:

From 1967 until 1970, despite being a single university, Case and Western Reserve continued to field separate "small time" athletic teams!  Although the schools merged in 1967......................SPORTS did not merge until 1970!!!!

And until 1987, undergraduates still applied to either Case OR Western Reserve, ............... NOT to Case Western Reserve!

My own graduating class (1994) was literally the first in CWRU history whose undergraduate diplomas didn't have either Case Institute of Technology or Western Reserve College on them!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on May 02, 2020, 05:13:36 PM

DagarmanSpartan

Nice bit of history on Case and Western Reserve. Well done. Thanks.  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 03, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
Quote from: E.115 on May 01, 2020, 07:46:59 PM
^ Great news.  The last two announced on the CWRU Football Twitter page look like they could both get some playing time as freshmen:

Marco Toth, DB - Mentor, OH

- Div 1 1st Team All-Ohio
- 1 of 614 ranking in his class!

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/high-school-sports/football/mentors-marco-toth-to-play-football-at-case-western-reserve/article_644e685a-8bdb-11ea-9ca1-b30e7b82e4df.html

Riley Knurek, WR - North Royalton, OH

- 4.5 speed

https://northroyaltonathletics.com/2019/09/30/royalton-recorder-riley-knurek-the-bears-big-play-guy/


Presuming the season can be played (NBA reportedly mulling delaying next season till December over concerns if fans will attend games earlier) The big holes for the Spartans to fill are DL, CB, and OL.

The incoming class is really strong on DEs and I think it's likely that two first-years start. Schuster returns at CB, but no experienced backup returns. Toth's Mentor teammate Sonny Oddo played CB and reportedly runs 4.5 40. His brother Dominic was an NCAA qualifier at 100M at CWRU.

The incoming class is also heavy (pun intended) on OLs with four weighing in at 270 or more (2 are 6'4 290). One of them should join four returning starters.

One other recruit who caught my eye is RB John Manzuk 6'1 195 and 4.5 40.

If D1 football moves to spring, could D3 still play in the fall? They could fill out the fall TV schedule ala the 1982 NFL strike when Wittenberg played BW on CBS.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 03, 2020, 10:57:53 AM
A couple of minor corrections D-man mostly because I was around then and you weren't.

Only football merged in 1970 it was 71-72 school year.when other sports did.

The 1969 and 1970 classes could opt for a CWRU or WRU or CIT diploma. My 1970 CWRU diploma was signed by the Dean of Adelbert College (hence ADL 70)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
I don't know that we can do fall sports in the spring in conjunction with spring sports. We have a clip from the NCAA's VP for D-III, Dan Dutcher, in the top 15 minutes of the podcast about this, and then we also have a former D-III student-athlete and coach who is now working in higher ed, talking about how this affecting schools and sports programs. That's a 12-minute conversation, starting around the 45-minute mark.

https://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2020/04/30/atn-podcast-274-who-knows-whats-next/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 03, 2020, 06:17:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
I don't know that we can do fall sports in the spring in conjunction with spring sports. We have a clip from the NCAA's VP for D-III, Dan Dutcher, in the top 15 minutes of the podcast about this, and then we also have a former D-III student-athlete and coach who is now working in higher ed, talking about how this affecting schools and sports programs. That's a 12-minute conversation, starting around the 45-minute mark.

https://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2020/04/30/atn-podcast-274-who-knows-whats-next/

Yes I listened on Friday. The logistics problem of moving fall sports to spring was pointed out (facilities and training staff for two). Those aren't big issues in d1 and more so than d3, d1 relies on ticket sales which could be effected more this fall than next spring.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 04, 2020, 11:38:19 AM
ADL70,

Alums from the 1970s that I've met said that their diplomas said "Case Western Reserve University" at the top, but underneath that still mentioned either Case Institute of Technology or Western Reserve College; something that continued until my graduation year in 1994.

That year was the first time that undergrad diplomas said "Case Western Reserve University" at the top, and then underneath said "on the recommendation of the Faculty of" followed by either "Case School of Engineering," "College of Arts and Sciences," "Weatherhead School of Management" (that was mine), or "Frances Payne Bolton School of Nursing."

I had a "Western Reserve College" sweatshirt that I wore during my first few years there.  At that time, everyone was still either a "Casie," a "Reservie," or a "Nurse" depending upon which major/degree program and corresponding core curriculum they chose.

I sure am glad that that nonsense finally came to an end!

I didn't realize that some sports were still separate until after 1970.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 05, 2020, 09:58:49 AM
Adelbert, Mather and Cleveland Colleges were consolidated in 1972 to form Western Reserve College of Arts and Sciences, then at some point Western Reserve was dropped.

There is an Austin microbrewery Adelbert's. I often have to correct mispronunciations. It's Uh- DEL-bert.

Latest "Welcome to CWRU" is Jace Merritt an OL from Ft Worth who was All-State HM for private and parochial schools and reports on twitter a PWO from FCS Incarnate Word.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 12, 2020, 11:05:12 AM
CMU Recruiting Class:  https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/releases/20200508fp9i25

32 from 14 states, in contrast CWRU 44 from 16 states via twitter. CWRU hasn't done an announcement like CMU's for a couple of years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 21, 2020, 05:54:00 PM
ADL70,

Is there by chance a comprehensive list for our recruiting class out there, complete with positions, Hts, wts., and HS?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 22, 2020, 07:16:26 PM
CJ   Anderson   6'1   185   OLB   FR   OH
Ian   Andersson   6'1   170   S    FR   PA
Isaiah   Arrington   5'11   150   WR   FR   TN
Adam   Banathay   6'1   250   OL   FR   IL
Nick   Balogh   5'9   175   CB    FR   OH
Mick   Bastuga   5'11   225   LS   FR   IL
Ryan    Cabrerra   5'11   195   ILB   FR   NJ
Brett   Callow   5'11   140   K/P   FR   OH
John   Dinko   6'2   220   DE   FR   OH
Vinnie   DiRuzza   5'10   185   S    FR   OH
AJ   Dudowski   6'1   235   DE   FR   PA
Sam   Fox   5'8   165   WR   FR   OR
Mitchell   Fragassi   6'3   240   OL   FR   OH
Alex   Fromberg   6'2   200   QB   FR   NJ
Theo   Hutt    6'2   235   OL   FR   MA
Sean-Michael   James   5'9   200   RB    FR   OH
Justin   Jones   6'5   225   DE   FR   OH
Caden   Kacmarynski   6'2   235   DE   FR   WI
Kyle   Kasche   6'    210   DE   FR   IL
Myles   Kazumura   5'8   165   WR   FR   WI
Peter   Kelly   6'4   290   OL   FR   NY
Will   Kerr   6'3   245   DE   FR   MI
Evan   Knipp   6'1   240   OL   FR   OH
Riley   Knurek   5'8   160   WR   FR   OH
Alex   Lindberg   5'11   180   OLB   FR   OH
Jacob   Lurie   5'10   142   K/P   FR   NY
John   Manzuk   6'1   195   RB    FR   OH
Shane   MacSwan   6'    220   ILB   FR   NY
Jace   Merritt   5'11   260   OL   FR   TX
Jared   Miller     5'10   180    S   FR   PA
Sonny   Oddo   5'11   166   CB    FR   OH
Connor    Rich   6'2   195   QB   FR   CT
Andrew   Saluan   5'8   180   OLB   FR   FL
Alex    Sanchez   6'4   290   OL   FR   NC
Duncan   Shields   6'    285   OL   FR   TX
Kaden   Tong   6'2   225   DE   FR   OH
Sean   Torres   5'11   220   ILB   FR   IL
Marco   Toth   5'9   170   S    FR   OH
Gabe   Troch   6'1   195   LB   FR   NC
Dom   Wade   6'1   230   H-B   FR   PA
Austin   Weeber   6'6   270   OL   FR   PA
Albert   Wilhelmy V   5'10   170   QB   FR   OH
Dom   Zappetelli   5'10   165   S    FR   OH
Saar   Zutshi   5'9   195   OLB   FR   AZ
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 29, 2020, 11:43:10 AM
This made me lol... see #3 Alabama.

"Prior to his time at Alabama, Scott spent time at Case Western Reserve, which is a Division III school in Cleveland (it also sounds like the name of a bank)."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29213984/college-football-strange-true-historical-facts-top-25-team

I've only heard... "is that a military academy?"
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 29, 2020, 02:15:18 PM
I've had folks tell me they thought it was a military school. Not many folks even those from Ohio know that NE Ohio was once the Connecticut Western Reserve. I don't understand folks resistance to CWRU, like UCLA or UMHB. opting for Case, which was part of an abortive re-branding effort, or Case Western. The plan after the federation was to brand the athletic teams as Case Reserve, but it was never universally accepted.

Scott, according to Wikipedia was a WRU grad Archives and CWRU archives confirm that he coached the Redcats in 1910 and Rough Riders from 11-13. The reference to Peru state is confusing.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 02, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
FWIW, Street and Smith's, has CWRU ranked 21st and Colt Morgan pre-season All-American. Not sure if Keith McMillan wrote the preview and poll this year.
https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20200602gd4s8l
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 02, 2020, 12:55:14 PM
He did!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 02, 2020, 04:38:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 02, 2020, 12:55:14 PM
He did!

And now the $9.95 question:  will there be a Kickoff 2020?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 02, 2020, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on June 02, 2020, 04:38:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 02, 2020, 12:55:14 PM
He did!

And now the $9.95 question:  will there be a Kickoff 2020?

Great question -- there are ongoing discussions. The uncertainty of the season itself leads to our uncertainty.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 07, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 02, 2020, 12:55:14 PM
He did!

:)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 08, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
ADL,

Thanks for the list!

VERY deep!  IF we could recruit like that every year, we'd be awesome!

I sure hope that this season goes off!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 08, 2020, 09:28:22 PM
The firstyears are now up on the roster on the website. 1 not previously mentioned and 1 on my list not there

Now, in addition to 44 first-year and one transfer, a handful of Spartans from 2018 who were not on last season's roster are now on the 2020 roster on the website.

IF players are able to report in August, there potentially could be 112 report. I'm certain that that number would be the most ever. 2012 was the only camp, so far to have over 100 report.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 18, 2020, 01:27:14 PM
Case Western Reserve news story on the need to online recruit (as I'm sure is happening with every school right now):

CWRU wooing recruits virtually
Spartans selling program with online tour and more

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/06/15/cwru-wooing-recruits-virtually/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 18, 2020, 03:39:31 PM
Thanks for sharing. Sad that they couldn't pronounce Debeljak

Here's an article about the uncertain 2020 season for Cleveland area teams https://www.news-herald.com/sports/area-college-football-coches-bracing-for-season-unlike-any-other/article_a3f272c8-b09b-11ea-8e94-6b4c2ded88ab.html

Looks like the Spartans got another transfer from Duquesne, Antonio Orsini, whose brother Giuseppi played WR at CWRU from 2014-2017. It appears that he was redshirted last season as a freshman. He was listed at DB there, but it appears he will be used at RB for the Spartans. He was a 1,000-yard rusher at Upper St Clair.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 18, 2020, 11:16:01 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on June 18, 2020, 03:39:31 PM
Thanks for sharing. Sad that they couldn't pronounce Debeljak

Here's an article about the uncertain 2020 season for Cleveland area teams https://www.news-herald.com/sports/area-college-football-coches-bracing-for-season-unlike-any-other/article_a3f272c8-b09b-11ea-8e94-6b4c2ded88ab.html

Looks like the Spartans got another transfer from Duquesne, Antonio Orsini, whose brother Giuseppi played WR at CWRU from 2014-2017. It appears that he was redshirted last season as a freshman. He was listed at DB there, but it appears he will be used at RB for the Spartans. He was a 1,000-yard rusher at Upper St Clair.

I had to refresh my memory on the other Duquesne transfer:  https://goduquesne.com/sports/football/roster/aidan-cain/7441

Neat skill position adds for Saxton and company.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 21, 2020, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: E.115 on June 18, 2020, 11:16:01 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on June 18, 2020, 03:39:31 PM
Thanks for sharing. Sad that they couldn't pronounce Debeljak

Here's an article about the uncertain 2020 season for Cleveland area teams https://www.news-herald.com/sports/area-college-football-coches-bracing-for-season-unlike-any-other/article_a3f272c8-b09b-11ea-8e94-6b4c2ded88ab.html

Looks like the Spartans got another transfer from Duquesne, Antonio Orsini, whose brother Giuseppi played WR at CWRU from 2014-2017. It appears that he was redshirted last season as a freshman. He was listed at DB there, but it appears he will be used at RB for the Spartans. He was a 1,000-yard rusher at Upper St Clair.



I had to refresh my memory on the other Duquesne transfer:  https://goduquesne.com/sports/football/roster/aidan-cain/7441

Neat skill position adds for Saxton and company.
I'm really getting excited about these recruits. I hope this virus like a miracle, goes away one day and we can have a season
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 24, 2020, 02:53:29 PM
Looks like PAC Athletics will happen this fall. Of course there will be a lot of new practices in place. Here is the announcement from the W&J web site. Go down to Athletics where the Q&As are:

https://www.washjeff.edu/wj-fall-2020-reopening/

All subject to change, of course. I did hear that Bowdoin has cancelled fall schedules.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 24, 2020, 04:00:13 PM
CMU's plan says all athletics are suspended until further notice

https://www.cmu.edu/coronavirus/students/index.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 24, 2020, 04:14:29 PM
Geneva os a go

https://www.geneva.edu/emergency/coronavirus/covid-19faqs

So o Chatham
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 24, 2020, 04:34:04 PM
Bethany os a go

https://www.bethanywv.edu/student-life/health-wellness

Most schools had a Covis 16 banner across the top of their home page. Others did not, including CWRU, so I could not tell what their plans are.  As noted above, CMU is not planning on having any athletic competition this Fall, but that could, of course, change. Have no idea how the PAC would handle it if all the other members are going to play this fall, and CMU elects not to.

As I said above, and each school has stated, all this could change in a heartbeat if Pennsylvania has a Florida or Texas spike.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 25, 2020, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on June 24, 2020, 04:34:04 PM
Bethany os a go

https://www.bethanywv.edu/student-life/health-wellness

Most schools had a Covis 16 banner across the top of their home page. Others did not, including CWRU, so I could not tell what their plans are.  As noted above, CMU is not planning on having any athletic competition this Fall, but that could, of course, change. Have no idea how the PAC would handle it if all the other members are going to play this fall, and CMU elects not to.

As I said above, and each school has stated, all this could change in a heartbeat if Pennsylvania has a Florida or Texas spike.

You have to wait for it to scroll over  on the athletics home page

https://case.edu/studentlife/healthcounseling/health-serviceshealth-updates/covid-19-campus-communications       

No mention of sports though

https://case.edu/studentlife/healthcounseling/health-serviceshealth-updatescovid-19-campus-communications/june-21-message-faculty-and-staff-fall-planning-and-reducing-risk
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 07, 2020, 10:41:30 PM
PAC to adjust scheduling format for fall
Jul. 07, 2020
NEW WILMINGTON, Pa. (pacathletics.org)--The Presidents' Athletic Conference (PAC) Presidents' Council has unanimously approved an intra-conference (conference-only) scheduling format for all varsity sports during the fall 2020 season. All fall sports except football now have a first contest date of Sept. 7, while football will begin its nine-game league schedule on Sept. 19. The decisions were made during a pair of virtual Presidents' Council meetings in June.

SOURCE: http://pacathletics.org/news/2020/7/7/general-pac-to-adjust-scheduling-format-for-fall.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 08, 2020, 09:26:28 AM
Schools may set their own dates to start practice with NCAA allowing practice to begin Aug 10 or first of class if earlier.

Presumably this precludes outside scrimmages?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 08, 2020, 03:52:36 PM
Thanks to jaybird44 for this on CMU cancelling fall sports

https://athletics.cmu.edu/generalnews/2019-2020/cmu2020fallstatement
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jaybird44 on July 08, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
Hated to be the bearer of bad news...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2020, 03:58:14 PM
We've been told to expect Case will do the same.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 08, 2020, 04:05:18 PM
WHAT????

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This was destined to be a Top 25 season!!!

:'(
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 08, 2020, 04:34:34 PM
Reading the UAA's resolution, it only applies to sports in which the UAA sponsors championship competition.

As the UAA no longer sponsors a championship in football, it would appear that that one sport could conceivably go on.

Alternately, other fall sports could as well PROVIDED they can obtain opponents to fill holes in what would have been the UAA schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 08, 2020, 04:39:47 PM
It is also worth noting that on the UAA's football website, while CMU's September 5th game is already listed as cancelled, CWRU's game is not.

Or at least, not yet.

Let's keep our fingers crossed!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2020, 04:52:55 PM
As I said, "will do" the same, not that they have already done it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 08, 2020, 06:55:34 PM
I hope that that is not the case.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2020, 07:50:19 PM
They did just make their announcement.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 08, 2020, 08:42:29 PM
Well sports fans... it's officially official.  :(

Case Western Reserve has bowed out for 2020 football season:

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200708t741mm
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 08, 2020, 09:05:50 PM
Ouch.

What a letdown.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what the PAC thinks about this since they voted "unanimously"  for a different outcome?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 08:19:51 AM
http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2020/7/7/general-pac-to-adjust-scheduling-format-for-fall.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on July 09, 2020, 10:07:43 AM

All you Case Western fans -

Sorry to hear your football season has been cancelled! I will always be a fan like I have been in the past. (Almost went to school there).
Take solace in the fact that CWRU is an academically elite school. That probably doesn't ease the pain of a lost season. You'll be back!
Go Spartans! 🏈 🎓  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 09, 2020, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what the PAC thinks about this since they voted "unanimously"  for a different outcome?

CWRU and CMU are affiliates for football only. But perhaps PAC will rethink.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 11:06:27 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 09, 2020, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what the PAC thinks about this since they voted "unanimously"  for a different outcome?

CWRU and CMU are affiliates for football only. But perhaps PAC will rethink.

I assume they took part in the PAC discussions since football was part of the discussion. There is also specific mention of  a 9 game conference only football schedule. I need to read the UAA summary again to be sure, but I think it only covers league games. If individual schools want to schedule non conference  events that is their call, so long as minimal travel is required.

Perhaps the PAC will reconsider if things change from where they were when the initial decision  was  made which, based on recent news, is entirely possible.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 11:06:27 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 09, 2020, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 08:15:28 AM
I wonder what the PAC thinks about this since they voted "unanimously"  for a different outcome?

CWRU and CMU are affiliates for football only. But perhaps PAC will rethink.

I assume they took part in the PAC discussions since football was part of the discussion. There is also specific mention of  a 9 game conference only football schedule. I need to read the UAA summary again to be sure, but I think it only covers league games. If individual schools want to schedule non conference  events that is their call, so long as minimal travel is required.

Perhaps the PAC will reconsider if things change from where they were when the initial decision  was  made which, based on recent news, is entirely possible.

The PAC statement was from the end of May right? 5 or 6 weeks has been an eternity for this situation. Of course, there is still 5 or 6 weeks until athletes report also, so another eternity where things can change again.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 09, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
The PAC's announcement was just the other day. However, CMU and CWRU have just one sport in the PAC -- if the UAA is abandoning conference schedules (and that's understandable given the geographic distances) then those schools have to make the best decision for their entire fall schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:15:34 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 09, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
The PAC's announcement was just the other day. However, CMU and CWRU have just one sport in the PAC -- if the UAA is abandoning conference schedules (and that's understandable given the geographic distances) then those schools have to make the best decision for their entire fall schedule.

Huh. Must have read it wrong or just not paid attention. Thanks!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 09, 2020, 11:19:57 AM
This is the one I'm thinking of:
http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2020/7/7/general-pac-to-adjust-scheduling-format-for-fall.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:21:57 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 09, 2020, 11:19:57 AM
This is the one I'm thinking of:
http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2020/7/7/general-pac-to-adjust-scheduling-format-for-fall.aspx

Yeah. That's it. I read it wrong. The date of the D3 announcements about qualifying games got stuck in my head I think. Wasn't that end of May? Or maybe I'm remembering it all wrong and should just shut up... it's all possible these days.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 09, 2020, 11:23:21 AM
The PAC Presidents Council meetings, where the decisions were made, were held in June.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Bob, did CWRU and CMU participate?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on July 09, 2020, 11:23:21 AM
The PAC Presidents Council meetings, where the decisions were made, were held in June.

By the way... I have emailed our AD and head coach several times over the last year about a W&L vs W&J matchup in 2023 to... reflect, remember, and emphasize... W&L's atrocious conduct in 1923. I never have gotten a response and typically I get responses to other inquiries. Makes me sad.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 11:38:11 AM
Quote from: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on July 09, 2020, 11:23:21 AM
The PAC Presidents Council meetings, where the decisions were made, were held in June.

By the way... I have emailed our AD and head coach several times over the last year about a W&L vs W&J matchup in 2023 to... reflect, remember, and emphasize... W&L's atrocious conduct in 1923. I never have gotten a response and typically I get responses to other inquiries. Makes me sad.

That would be interesting. Maybe my W&L cousin and I could have a mini-reunion at the game! Hope your on laws have recovered by now.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:39:51 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 11:38:11 AM
Quote from: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on July 09, 2020, 11:23:21 AM
The PAC Presidents Council meetings, where the decisions were made, were held in June.

By the way... I have emailed our AD and head coach several times over the last year about a W&L vs W&J matchup in 2023 to... reflect, remember, and emphasize... W&L's atrocious conduct in 1923. I never have gotten a response and typically I get responses to other inquiries. Makes me sad.

That would be interesting. Maybe my W&L cousin and I could have a mini-reunion at the game! Hope your on laws have recovered by now.

They have. Thanks. My M-I-L was miserable for 2 plus weeks, my F-I-L had some mild respiratory symptoms. A very strange disease in the susceptibility of different people.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 09, 2020, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: E.115 on July 08, 2020, 08:42:29 PM
Well sports fans... it's officially official.  :(

Case Western Reserve has bowed out for 2020 football season:

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200708t741mm

And all other fall sports.

Will they look into spring football? I know that there are huge challenges to doing that. As discussed here at 11 minute mark https://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2020/04/30/atn-podcast-274-who-knows-whats-next/

What will NCAA esp D1 do?

The CWRU statement appears to leave the door open for practicing. Seems to me that could be decided if students get back on campus.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 09, 2020, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 09, 2020, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: E.115 on July 08, 2020, 08:42:29 PM
Well sports fans... it's officially official.  :(

Case Western Reserve has bowed out for 2020 football season:

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200708t741mm

And all other fall sports.

Will they look into spring football? I know that there are huge challenges to doing that. As discussed here at 11 minute mark https://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2020/04/30/atn-podcast-274-who-knows-whats-next/

What will NCAA esp D1 do?

The CWRU statement appears to leave the door open for practicing. Seems to me that could be decided if students get back on campus.



Maybe some scrimmages in the Spring with nearby schools
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 09, 2020, 01:50:22 PM
I believe CWRU & CMU presidents participated in the Council meetings, though I'm not positive.

When the dominoes of those schools with endowments under $400 million cancelling, it'll all happen pretty quickly.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 09, 2020, 05:05:37 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on July 09, 2020, 01:50:22 PM
I believe CWRU & CMU presidents participated in the Council meetings, though I'm not positive.

When the dominoes of those schools with endowments under $400 million cancelling, it'll all happen pretty quickly.

I suspect the presidents were part of the discussion, but perhaps had no vote.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 14, 2020, 08:31:20 PM
Case football coach Greg Debeljak said decision to cancel fall sports 'emotional for everybody'

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-football-coach-greg-debeljak-said-decision-to-cancel-fall-sports-emotional-for-everybody/article_0ad10b24-c606-11ea-8e1f-1f391d6a919d.html

Best quote:

When asked about the possibility of, for example, Case and Carnegie Mellon possibly playing its rivalry game in the spring, Debeljak said:

"Everything would be on the table (in the spring) if it's safe."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 24, 2020, 04:16:39 PM
Postponement of fall sports in the PAC expected within the hour.

No sooner than I hit POST did this come out:

NEW WILMINGTON, Pa. (pacathletics.org)--The Presidents' Athletic Conference (PAC) Presidents' Council has voted unanimously on the following decisions related to athletic competition in the fall 2020 semester:

● To postpone fall 2020 athletic competitions in the NCAA-defined "high contact" and "medium contact" sports of football, men's and women's soccer, women's volleyball and men's and women's cross country until the spring 2021 semester, due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

● The NCAA-defined "low contact" fall 2020 sports of women's tennis and men's and women's golf will tentatively be permitted to compete this fall with conference competition only, as previously announced, barring additional NCAA or state guidelines/restrictions. The conference will also explore logistical options for holding fall athletic competitions in other "low contact" sports such as men's and women's outdoor track and field and men's tennis, which have typically held their traditional seasons in the spring in past years.

● Tentative modified spring varsity game/competition schedules in football, soccer, volleyball and cross country will be developed by the PAC Scheduling Working Group and released in the near future.

● In addition, the PAC Presidents' Council also agreed to not hold any winter sport varsity competitions prior to January 1, 2021.

All decisions were made during the most recent PAC Presidents' Council virtual meeting held on Thursday, July 23.

"We wrestled long and hard before deciding to postpone competition in the high- and medium-contact sports of football, soccer, volleyball and cross country this fall, a difficult disruption for our student-athletes and coaches," said Dr. Calvin Troup, president of Geneva College and chair of the PAC Presidents' Council. "That said, we remain hopeful that conditions will permit us to include these sports safely in an expanded PAC athletic schedule this coming spring."

The decision by the PAC to postpone fall competition until the spring of 2021 was largely driven by the NCAA Sport Science Institute (SSI) releasing updated health and safety/resocialization guidelines on July 16 related to Covid-19, which classified football, soccer and volleyball as "high contact" sports. The document recommends that all "high contact" sports should currently have all student-athletes tested on a weekly basis for Covid-19 when social distancing is not possible (e.g. during competitions), including within 72 hours after each football game for all student-athletes, coaches, officials and staff. As a "medium contact" sport, guidelines for cross country competition include initial testing of all student-athletes followed by maintenance testing bi-weekly throughout the season.

As a result of this decision, PAC member schools will focus on athletic activities for the high and medium contact sports that are consistent with their individual health and safety plans and public health protocols. The conference office will be providing schools with additional compliance guidance related to Covid-19 related waivers approved by the NCAA.

"I cannot stress this point enough: this is a postponement of certain fall sports competitions. Our Presidents' Council has indicated every intention of having our schools play football, soccer, volleyball and cross country league schedules to the greatest degree possible during the spring 2021 semester, with a continued highest priority on student-athlete health and safety" said PAC Commissioner Joe Onderko.

"We remain extremely hopeful that improved, more available and more cost-effective testing procedures for Covid-19, if not an outright vaccine, will make spring competitions in these high-impact sports a much more viable option than in the fall. Moving all winter sports competitions until after January 1 also gives us a greater degree of confidence in both starting and finishing those seasons," said Onderko.

The PAC will continue to monitor and research options due to the rapidly evolving Covid-19 public health crisis through the remainder of the summer and fall. The conference will continue to adjust its policies, guidelines and schedules as necessary to maximize the health and safety of our student-athletes and coaches, as well as to provide them with the best athletic experience possible during the remainder of the rapidly evolving public health crisis.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 24, 2020, 10:08:28 PM
^Thank you Bob!  Exciting news for sure. (Especially from a CWRU guy who had nothing to lose at this point).

The chance of Spring football is certainly something to get excited about... what a weird time in history.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on July 25, 2020, 06:42:37 PM
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2020/07/ohio-athletic-conference-principals-athletic-conference-push-football-and-most-fall-sports-to-spring.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 03, 2020, 05:14:28 PM
It appears that CWRU has lost QB Coach Kevin Burke to Mt Union his alma mater
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on August 03, 2020, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 03, 2020, 05:14:28 PM
It appears that CWRU has lost QB Coach Kevin Burke to Mt Union his alma mater


And Mount Union has lost a season to covid-19! 😷 😢
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: 57Johnnie on August 06, 2020, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on August 03, 2020, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 03, 2020, 05:14:28 PM
It appears that CWRU has lost QB Coach Kevin Burke to Mt Union his alma mater


And Mount Union has lost a season to covid-19! 😷 😢
But today is National IPA Day!   :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on August 06, 2020, 07:11:31 PM
Quote from: 57Johnnie on August 06, 2020, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on August 03, 2020, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 03, 2020, 05:14:28 PM
It appears that CWRU has lost QB Coach Kevin Burke to Mt Union his alma mater


And Mount Union has lost a season to covid-19! 😷 😢
But today is National IPA Day!   :)

I didn't know that! 🍺 🍺 🍺 🍺......................  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 31, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
For those interested, here is the CWRU athletic director with commentary on how intercollegiate sports might be conducted.

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20200828lp3kfr
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2020, 01:39:48 PM
https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/videos/CWRU_Football_Media_Day

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 03, 2020, 04:11:57 PM
CWRU WR Colt Morgan named to D3football.com preseason first team all american

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20200903jpxt3r

W&J's Joey Koroly named 3rd team returner

https://www.d3football.com/awards/all-americans/2020-preseason
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 08, 2020, 09:32:47 PM
Short blurb on CWRU's Morgan:  https://www.news-herald.com/sports/mount-unions-josh-petruccelli-of-perry-cases-colt-morgan-honored-as-d3football-com-all-america/article_6daf43e6-ee29-11ea-85f4-0bf67bfba38a.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 17, 2020, 03:27:15 PM
PAC Football Return to Play plan:

Football
Start: Friday, March 12
Finish: Friday, April 23
Scheduling model: The league's 10 football-playing schools will be split into a North Division and South Division. Each school will play four in-division games, followed by a North Division-South Division crossover game. The five-game schedule will be played over seven weeks, with each team having two open dates.
North Division (5): Case Western Reserve University, Geneva College, Grove City College, Thiel College, Westminster College
South Division (5): Bethany College, Carnegie Mellon University, Saint Vincent College, Washington & Jefferson College, Waynesburg University
Postseason format: North Division-South Division crossover games will be determined by seeding after the conclusion of the four-game season.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 17, 2020, 10:48:19 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 17, 2020, 03:27:15 PM
PAC Football Return to Play plan:

Football
Start: Friday, March 12
Finish: Friday, April 23
Scheduling model: The league's 10 football-playing schools will be split into a North Division and South Division. Each school will play four in-division games, followed by a North Division-South Division crossover game. The five-game schedule will be played over seven weeks, with each team having two open dates.
North Division (5): Case Western Reserve University, Geneva College, Grove City College, Thiel College, Westminster College
South Division (5): Bethany College, Carnegie Mellon University, Saint Vincent College, Washington & Jefferson College, Waynesburg University
Postseason format: North Division-South Division crossover games will be determined by seeding after the conclusion of the four-game season.
.
Too bad the Academic Bowl between CWRU and CMU is a casualty. but one rivalry game had to be sacrificed.


Hopefully,  it will be allowed to be the crossover game for each
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 18, 2020, 07:20:51 AM
^ Sounds like there's a "postseason" chance for CWRU-CMU, right?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2020, 10:32:57 AM
My bets for the crossover games:

Case-Western vs. Carnegie-Mellon
Westminster vs. Washington & Jefferson
Grove City vs. Waynesburg
Geneva vs. Saint Vincent
Thiel vs. Bethany
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 20, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
Bob

Any idea when there will be an official announcement?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 20, 2020, 06:03:40 PM
Official announcement about crossover games will follow the four-game, six-week "regular" season.
The matchups are supposed to be based on Division finish.

From PAC release:  "Postseason format: North Division-South Division crossover games will be determined by seeding after the conclusion of the four-game season."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 20, 2020, 10:10:29 PM
Thanks I hadn't found the release before. Guess I just looked at the PAC Football page.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 20, 2020, 10:18:51 PM
Spring 2021 PAC Composite Football Schedule

North Division

Friday, March 12
Case Western Reserve at Grove City
Westminster at Geneva
Bye: Thiel

Friday, March 19
Case Western Reserve at Westminster
Grove City at Thiel
Bye: Geneva

Friday, March 26
Thiel at Westminster
Geneva at Case Western Reserve
Bye: Grove City

Friday, April 2
Easter weekend

Friday, April 9
Geneva at Thiel
Westminster at Grove City
Bye: Case Western Reserve

Friday, April 16
Grove City at Geneva
Thiel at Case Western Reserve
Bye: Westminster

South Division

Friday, March 12
Saint Vincent at Bethany
W&J at Waynesburg
Bye: Carnegie Mellon

Friday, March 19
Waynesburg at Bethany
Saint Vincent at Carnegie Mellon
Bye: W&J

Friday, March 26
Carnegie Mellon at Waynesburg
Bethany at W&J
Bye: Saint Vincent

Friday, April 2
Easter Weekend

Friday, April 9
Carnegie Mellon at W&J
Waynesburg at Saint Vincent
Bye: Bethany

Friday, April 16
W&J at Saint Vincent
Bethany at Carnegie Mellon
Bye: Waynesburg

North Division-South Division Crossover Games
Friday, April 23
No. 5 North vs. No. 5 South; No. 4 North vs. No. 4 South; No. 3 North vs. No. 3 South; No. 2 North vs. No. 2 South;
No. 1 North vs. No. 1 South
Note: All crossover games will be at the opposite site of the 2019 regular season game between the two
participating schools

Spartans open with what's likely their two toughest games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jaybird44 on September 25, 2020, 11:14:56 PM
Hello all!

Usually I post items about WashU games that I have or will broadcast, or about general observations from other games and events.  However, this post regards a topic that is quite a bit different--with the athletic shoe being on the broadcaster's foot.

I am going to attempt to cover 100 miles in a solo charity ultramarathon through an event that I have organized.  "Rett Gets Rocked Virtual Ultra Weekend" will be conducted in the subdivision where I live in St. Charles, MO, to raise awareness and research funds for Rett syndrome.  I get started at 9 a.m. Central on Saturday, October 3 and end at 5 p.m. Sunday, October 4.  Proceeds from the event will be split between Rettsyndrome.org (the only national organization spearheading research and providing resources for affected patients and their families) and the Rett Spectrum Clinic--a collaboration between the WashU School of Medicine and St. Louis Children's Hospital.

Rett syndrome is a rare, non-inherited neurological disorder that is caused by a gene mutation in the brain.  Rett strikes typically when a child is 6-18 months old, and it takes away the child's ability to move and communicate.  Most of them end up in wheelchairs with active minds, but mired in the physical rubble that Rett creates.  And, the neurological damage prevents verbal communication and arm and hand movement for sign language.

In essence, Rett does to a child what Lucy in the "Peanuts" comic strip does to Charlie Brown when he tries to kick the football that she is holding.  The only difference is that Charlie Brown can get back up to try again.  Those who are afflicted with Rett syndrome don't get another chance to enjoy a vibrant life.

If you would like to make a donation to the cause, here is the link to my Rett Racers donation page:  https://rettracer.everydayhero.com/us/rett-gets-rocked-2020

Thanks for your time and consideration, and let's hope that we get back to playing and broadcasting sports much sooner than later!  It looks like the PAC has a great plan to do that with football!

Jay Murry
Play-By-Play Announcer, Washington University in St. Louis
Event Director, Rett Gets Rocked Virtual Ultra Weekend
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 09, 2020, 08:45:54 AM
Neat idea for a Homecoming weekend which has no football (or in person events):

CWRU Football to Host Re-Watching of Classic Games for Homecoming

The Case Western Reserve University football team will be airing classic football games on their YouTube channel for Homecoming this week, culminating on Saturday night with a re-watch of the team's 2017 overtime win against Carnegie Mellon University that clinched the PAC Championship and an undefeated season for the team.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20201007ghvjfq
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 09, 2020, 04:28:52 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 09, 2020, 08:45:54 AM
Neat idea for a Homecoming weekend which has no football (or in person events):

CWRU Football to Host Re-Watching of Classic Games for Homecoming

The Case Western Reserve University football team will be airing classic football games on their YouTube channel for Homecoming this week, culminating on Saturday night with a re-watch of the team's 2017 overtime win against Carnegie Mellon University that clinched the PAC Championship and an undefeated season for the team.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20201007ghvjfq

^ and during this Homecoming weekend, CWRU just announced the Athletic Director position is now endowed!

https://thedaily.case.edu/case-western-reserve-university-announces-2-million-gift-to-support-two-endowed-positions/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2020, 03:57:46 PM
An "endowed" athletic director...hmmm. ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 29, 2020, 07:22:25 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2020, 03:57:46 PM
An "endowed" athletic director...hmmm. ;D

Ha!

But what else is there in life to endow?  :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 29, 2020, 09:43:10 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 28, 2020, 03:57:46 PM
An "endowed" athletic director...hmmm. ;D

Are you being sexist?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 01, 2020, 01:45:19 PM
Congratulations, Coach Sirianni.

https://gopresidents.com/news/2020/12/1/football-mike-sirianni-to-be-inducted-into-chautauqua-sports-hall-of-fame.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 02, 2020, 02:58:22 PM
Regarding this endowed position, if my memory serves me right, when I was an undergrad at CWRU back in the early 90s, the athletic director also held a position as the chair of the physical education department, and was considered a full professor in rank.

Based on what I just saw on the online bulletin, that still appears to be true.

https://bulletin.case.edu/physicaleducationandathletics/#faculty

Now, it appears that that position will be an endowed faculty chair as well!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 02, 2020, 03:14:29 PM
Looking at that schedule, assuming it goes forward, it appears that an Academic Bowl matchup is still HYPOTHETICALLY possible, should CWRU and CMU both finish in the same position within their respective divisions.

Suppose both finish #1.  Should that game be considered a conference championship game with a recognized conference title?

Just wondering!

I am curious as to why they appear to have scheduled FRIDAY games.  What's the rationale behind that?  Why not Saturday? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2020, 03:23:10 PM
I am going to guess field availability and staffing. Football isn't the only fall sport that people would be trying to find time for in the spring.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 02, 2020, 06:54:39 PM
DagarmanSpartan, the N-1 vs. S-1 crossover WILL BE THE PAC Championship Game, yes.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 03, 2020, 04:05:12 PM
OK.  Great.

So in that case, the PAC appears to be following a Division I-FBS conference model of having two divisions, with each division champion then meeting in a title game to determine the conference championship.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2020, 11:43:58 PM
That's generally how conferences that are playing this spring are planning to structure things.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on December 04, 2020, 11:53:50 AM
Pat,

In your opinion, what are the odds that the proposed Spring season actually takes place?

I'd sure LOVE to see it, but with today's COVID19 issues, it seems like a stretch.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 12, 2021, 08:42:10 PM
 :-\

Not sure what this means for CWRU football...no specific mention, but not looking good if UAA league play for spring sports are already cancelled.

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20210112hq4vm0?fbclid=IwAR0Hw4k3UBRSLACY0Z7_xdkkm1AMEy7OW1ONeVwfb8-PL5nFhjQnGiGW3N0
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on January 14, 2021, 02:52:29 PM
Hopefully PAC Spring football is still a go!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 14, 2021, 03:43:30 PM
Well, PAC released new Men's/Women's basketball schedules today.

They're heading to the starting line, at least.
Let's hope they can reach the finish line!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 14, 2021, 04:54:00 PM
Quote from: E.115 on January 12, 2021, 08:42:10 PM
:-\

Not sure what this means for CWRU football...no specific mention, but not looking good if UAA league play for spring sports are already cancelled.

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20210112hq4vm0?fbclid=IwAR0Hw4k3UBRSLACY0Z7_xdkkm1AMEy7OW1ONeVwfb8-PL5nFhjQnGiGW3N0

I suspect that the amount of travel for UAA likely had a lot to do with the decision. Although CWRU, unlike several PAC schools, hasn't posted a spring football schedule.

Note this proviso however, "Member institutions will still be able to engage in practice and other non-UAA competition, including informal competition against other UAA teams, as their respective institutions deem appropriate. CWRU has not yet made a decision about competition for spring sports outside of UAA competition."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 18, 2021, 07:46:03 PM
FWIW CWRU has the 'spring' games on it's website, but that may be something that was done by d3football with it's connection to PrestoSports.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on January 18, 2021, 10:07:36 PM
As far as I know, football is the only varsity sport at CWRU that isn't UAA.

I assume that club sports competition may continue.  I remember CWRU club hockey playing a number of much larger schools back in the day. 

I'll say this.  Participants in every other sport at CWRU are going to be REALLY ticked-off if they don't get to play during this school year, and football players do.  What sort of message does THAT send?

Doesn't really seem fair to everyone else, although, to be frank, I'd really like to see this Spring football thing happen!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 19, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
Currently the CWRU athletic facilities master schedule does not list any facility reserved for varsity football.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 19, 2021, 08:12:11 PM
The information I put into the D3football.com master schedule is what is on the PAC schedules.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 21, 2021, 03:46:27 PM
Eagles hire Nick Sirianni as their new head coach

That according to Adam Schefter on Twitter.....

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1352330002772193280?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 29, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
FWIW All varsity sports at CWRU now have facility reservations on the master schedule, including football, presumably for practices.  However the two home football games on March 26 and April 16, are not on the facility schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 29, 2021, 10:16:02 PM
Historic spring college football season fast approaching
By Mark Podolski mpodolski@news-herald.com @mpodo on Twitter
Jan 28, 2021


https://www.news-herald.com/sports/historic-spring-college-football-season-fast-approaching/article_39f789b8-61ac-11eb-a017-0b0e55541d96.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 31, 2021, 11:25:55 AM
Quote from: E.115 on January 29, 2021, 10:16:02 PM
Historic spring college football season fast approaching
By Mark Podolski mpodolski@news-herald.com @mpodo on Twitter
Jan 28, 2021


https://www.news-herald.com/sports/historic-spring-college-football-season-fast-approaching/article_39f789b8-61ac-11eb-a017-0b0e55541d96.html

Nice! Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on February 07, 2021, 03:29:25 PM
It'll be interesting to see if CWRU actually plays!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 12, 2021, 05:08:09 PM
I don't see how W&J plays on Mar. 12.

There's 12-15 inches of snow/ice on Cameron Stadium field.
Forecasters say we could get another 8-12 inches Monday into Tuesday.

The Presidents have not been on the field yet, now 4 weeks from that scheduled opener.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 20, 2021, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on January 18, 2021, 10:07:36 PM
As far as I know, football is the only varsity sport at CWRU that isn't UAA.

I assume that club sports competition may continue.  I remember CWRU club hockey playing a number of much larger schools back in the day. 

I'll say this.  Participants in every other sport at CWRU are going to be REALLY ticked-off if they don't get to play during this school year, and football players do.  What sort of message does THAT send?

Doesn't really seem fair to everyone else, although, to be frank, I'd really like to see this Spring football thing happen!

CWRU baseball and softball each tentatively have a non-conference schedule. The games appear on some of the opponents websites, but not yet on CWRU's.

https://www.d3baseball.com/teams/Case_Western_Reserve/2021/index

 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on February 20, 2021, 11:01:25 PM
Yeah, I see what you're saying.  But even if baseball plays............how do you imagine that's going to make all of the fall sports athletes feel that didn't get to play?

So far, I don't see CWRU's own athletic site, as you mentioned, listing any scheduled varsity competition.

I have to ask again where the CWRU enrollment numbers come from.  The number quoted on d3baseball.com is over 1,000 undergraduate students short.  See here.

https://case.edu/ir/cwru-facts/cwru-glance
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 21, 2021, 07:11:30 AM
CMU now has a Spring football schedule on their web site

https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/schedule
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on February 21, 2021, 08:49:28 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on February 20, 2021, 11:01:25 PM
Yeah, I see what you're saying.  But even if baseball plays............how do you imagine that's going to make all of the fall sports athletes feel that didn't get too play?


About like the spring players felt last year.  I suspect most schools are prioritizing spring athletes so they don't lose 2 seasons and wedging in fall sports where possible.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 21, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
Thiel has opted out of the spring season.

https://thielathletics.com/news/2021/2/17/thiel-college-football-shifts-attention-to-fall-2021-competition-season.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 21, 2021, 05:52:53 PM
Their record is 1-29 over the past 3 years and their current roster lists 33 players, and total enrollment in Fall 2017 was less than 900. Perhaps they are examining the viability of continuing the  program

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 21, 2021, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on February 21, 2021, 05:52:53 PM
Their record is 1-29 over the past 3 years and their current roster lists 33 players. Perhaps they are examining the viability of continuing the program, although they say otherwise.

Their roster doesn't include any freshmen. Can't tell when that roster was posted. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 22, 2021, 03:31:38 PM
Revised PAC Schedule Start pushed back to March 19.

https://pacathletics.org/calendar.aspx?path=football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 22, 2021, 05:13:03 PM
I guess they saw Bob Gregg's comment about the weather😀
Schedule shows Thiel playing.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on February 23, 2021, 09:40:58 AM
That new schedule still shows Thiel games.

I guess it's going to be adjusted further.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 23, 2021, 09:54:11 AM
Thiel-GCC is listed as postpones. The others are TBD  GCC's website has game with CWRU on Thursday 4/1 like the others. The original schedule was dark for Easter Weekend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 23, 2021, 10:52:28 AM
W&J has 62 freshman on the roster with a significant representation from Florida, which is new for W&J.

I can't help but wonder if Thiel acted unilaterally to cancel their season. You would expect to see some acknowledgement  on the PAC composite schedule other than game 1 "postponed"  and start time for others TBA.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2021, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on February 23, 2021, 10:52:28 AM
I can't help but wonder if Thiel acted unilaterally to cancel their season. You would expect to see some acknowledgement  on the PAC composite schedule other than game 1 "postponed"  and start time for others TBA.

Thiel certainly has the right to act unilaterally to do so -- I'm not sure what the implication is in your comment.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 25, 2021, 03:12:55 PM
Pat, my question was whether there was any conversation/consultation with the conference, or attempt to have a co-ordinated communication. As you say,  they can do as they wish, but their decision has implications for other conference members.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2021, 03:35:02 PM
I mean, it definitely has implications but Thiel doesn't owe consultation to the PAC on that, only notification, especially in a non-traditional setting such as this.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on February 26, 2021, 07:01:24 PM
Friday, Feb. 26, late afternoon:

Cameron Stadium field cleared, players on the turf!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 01, 2021, 02:48:19 PM
CWRU posted something today indicating that they were going to allow limited in-state only competition in baseball, softball, men's and women's tennis, and men's and women's outdoor track, with no competition beginning prior to March 13th.

Also, CWRU separately posted that their planned Spring PAC schedule is now off due to this travel restriction.

See here:

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20210301lmtmdl

And here:

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20210301lm10tv

With this in mind, I can only assume that CWRU might try to schedule some spring football games with D3 schools in Ohio, but that remains to be seen.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2021, 04:09:37 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on March 01, 2021, 02:48:19 PM
CWRU posted something today indicating that they were going to allow limited in-state only competition in baseball, softball, men's and women's tennis, and men's and women's outdoor track, with no competition beginning prior to March 13th.

Also, CWRU separately posted that their planned Spring PAC schedule is now off due to this travel restriction.

See here:

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20210301lmtmdl

And here:

https://athletics.case.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20210301lm10tv

With this in mind, I can only assume that CWRU might try to schedule some spring football games with D3 schools in Ohio, but that remains to be seen.

Denison, Ohio Wesleyan, Wittenberg and Wooster all have games scheduled. Only OWU has done a formal announcement so I suspect there are more than the handful of games we have, but yet also dates available.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 02, 2021, 09:50:55 AM
From CWRU site yesterday: "We will continue to explore opportunities for fall and winter team sports."

Witt and Woo each only have one game announced. Denison two and OWU three.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 02, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Does PAC move CMU to the North?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on March 02, 2021, 01:36:38 PM
Why do you think they might do that?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2021, 02:17:04 PM
Without having looked at the divisional balance myself, I would assume that losing Case and Thiel might make the divisions uneven in number.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on March 02, 2021, 03:58:38 PM
I'm not betting on CMU playing football in this spring season.
IVY League shut theirs down. CMU can't be far behind...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on March 02, 2021, 04:37:54 PM
Understand now, Forgot about Thiel. If CMU bolts, that leaves 7 teams (6 potential games). Guess they could scrap the current north/south/crossover format and just play 6 games, or just 5 if the calendar is an issue.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on March 02, 2021, 05:29:52 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on March 02, 2021, 04:37:54 PM
Understand now, Forgot about Thiel. If CMU bolts, that leaves 7 teams (6 potential games). Guess they could scrap the current north/south/crossover format and just play 6 games, or just 5 if the calendar is an issue.

You keep eligibility when only playing 5 games. Right, Pat?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2021, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on March 02, 2021, 05:29:52 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on March 02, 2021, 04:37:54 PM
Understand now, Forgot about Thiel. If CMU bolts, that leaves 7 teams (6 potential games). Guess they could scrap the current north/south/crossover format and just play 6 games, or just 5 if the calendar is an issue.

You keep eligibility when only playing 5 games. Right, Pat?

Actually, D-III decided that nobody was going was going to have to use a year of eligibility for this at all, so that restriction is no longer a factor!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 03, 2021, 05:50:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2021, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: MUC57 on March 02, 2021, 05:29:52 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on March 02, 2021, 04:37:54 PM
Understand now, Forgot about Thiel. If CMU bolts, that leaves 7 teams (6 potential games). Guess they could scrap the current north/south/crossover format and just play 6 games, or just 5 if the calendar is an issue.

You keep eligibility when only playing 5 games. Right, Pat?

Actually, D-III decided that nobody was going was going to have to use a year of eligibility for this at all, so that restriction is no longer a factor!

HAC is scheduled to play a seven-game full Conf schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 04, 2021, 11:35:12 AM
CMU's schedule now has Grove City, Westminster, and Geneva, who were North Division teams, and  Waynesburg. Those games are not listed on the PAC site, nor are the CWRU cancellations. Thiel games are now shown as "Cancelled."

https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/schedule

[Edit] PAC site updated now  https://pacathletics.org/calendar.aspx?path=football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on March 04, 2021, 12:46:31 PM
I'm expecting some sort of Spring Football conference-wide announcement in the next day or so...

Quicker than I thought....

https://pacathletics.org/news/2021/3/3/pac-announces-spring-football-scheduling-adjustments.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 10, 2021, 11:56:44 AM
CWRU released Spring schedules for baseball, softball, and tennis today; the opponents are all Ohio teams, with no organized conference play scheduled.

No word on football, but I'm guessing that, based on the fact that no similar announcement has been made regarding football, the odds are against it.

I hope I'm wrong!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 11, 2021, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on March 10, 2021, 11:56:44 AM
CWRU released Spring schedules for baseball, softball, and tennis today; they are all Ohio teams, with no organized conference play.

No word on football, but I'm guessing that, based on the fact that no similar announcement has been made regarding football, that the odds are against it.

I hope I'm wrong!

The sports that you mentioned knew on January 12, that there would be no UAA competition. They had two months to schedule outside competition. Football only found out that they wouldn't be competing with PAC. on March 1. I too hope that they can schedules a few games with the NCAC teams who are playing this spring.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 18, 2021, 12:33:18 PM
WOW!!!  Case just announced a football game against Ohio Wesleyan on April 8th!!!

A Thursday night spring special!!!

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210318iqf6y4
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 18, 2021, 12:34:04 PM
They even updated the "2020" schedule to list one game:

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/schedule
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 18, 2021, 12:54:19 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on March 18, 2021, 12:33:18 PM
WOW!!!  Case just announced a football game against Ohio Wesleyan on April 8th!!!

A Thursday night spring special!!!

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210318iqf6y4

Hopefully they can schedule at least one game with Wooster, Wittenberg, or Denison on March 26 or 27. It looks like April 8, 9,10 are the last games the NCAC is scheduling.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 23, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
So far, no news.  I wonder if they can get ANY other games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 24, 2021, 10:24:39 PM
Updated CWRU Roster  A number of seniors apparently have decided that a one-game season isn't worth playing for.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/roster
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on March 27, 2021, 01:17:26 PM
Nice start by The Presidents. Surprising number of Freshmen on the two deep roster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on March 30, 2021, 01:53:36 PM
FYI, St. Vincent is NOT allowing visiting media in so WJPA will NOT have the broadcast of the W&J @ StV game, Saturday, April 10.

Don't shoot the messenger.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on March 30, 2021, 10:44:11 PM
Two games for Case Western Reserve

April 3 @ Denison
April 8 @ Ohio Wesleyan

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-football-announces-second-april-college-football-game/article_056ec5ba-9192-11eb-b93a-63294714e96b.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 30, 2021, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: E.115 on March 30, 2021, 10:44:11 PM
Two games for Case Western Reserve

April 3 @ Denison
April 8 @ Ohio Wesleyan

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/case-football-announces-second-april-college-football-game/article_056ec5ba-9192-11eb-b93a-63294714e96b.html

Denison "was forced to cancel its previously scheduled game against Wittenberg." No reason was given for the cancellation.

CWRU's site states that it's an "exhibition." Denison's site doesn't give it that designation.

If only the Spartans could schedule a 4/17 game with Wooster or Wittenberg.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on March 31, 2021, 11:43:43 AM
If we play and win, then I say we should count them as official, that way we can claim an "undefeated" season.

;)

:P
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 01, 2021, 08:36:15 PM
Denison now list the game as an exhibition as well. Perhaps that means that it will be run as more of a scrimmage.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2021, 09:52:47 PM
The teams playing exhibition games still seem to take them seriously but don't want to count them on their record.

We did see one game downgraded all the way to a scrimmage and that was indeed played like a scrimmage.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 03, 2021, 11:39:26 AM
It does not appear that there will be Live Stats.

Witt's site says cancellations due to Covid protocols
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on April 06, 2021, 04:06:46 PM
Looks as though the Ohio Wesleyan game has been cancelled.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210406nfikxd

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on April 10, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
With today's win W&J clinches a winning season, continuing an uninterrupted streak of winning seasons that began in 1984.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 15, 2021, 11:27:21 AM
https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210415ij8knq

https://footballfoundation.org/news/2021/4/14/football-2021-nff-hampshire-honor-society-membership-announced.aspx

The National Football Foundation & College Hall of Fame (NFF) announced today the members of the 2021 NFF Hampshire Honor Society, which is comprised of college football players from all divisions of play who each maintained a cumulative 3.2 GPA or better throughout their college careers.

Division III program Case Western Reserve (OH) led all schools with 15 members in 2021
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on April 15, 2021, 03:43:12 PM
Congrats to CWRU
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on April 15, 2021, 04:03:53 PM
Congrats to CWRU! Quite an honor, but it just points out something we already knew.
Go Spartans! 🎓 🏈 🍺
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on April 16, 2021, 09:52:22 PM
Since the W&J Bethany game was cancelled, watched the CMU Westminster game. Next week W&J Westminster. c
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 11, 2021, 11:46:00 AM
I just noticed that Case's primary conference (the University Athletic Association) has announced that it will return to full sports competition in Fall 2021.

Has the PAC (our football conference) said anything similar with respect to the 2021 football season?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 11, 2021, 03:26:30 PM
FWIW CMU has posted a schedule of only conference games. https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/schedule

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 11, 2021, 05:39:07 PM
W&J's schedule includes a 9/4 game at John Carroll plus 9 conference games. I guess CMU could always add a game that week although it is less than four months away. I didn't check everyone, but W&J and CMU were the only ones that had Fall 2021 schedules posted.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on June 02, 2021, 08:13:22 AM
WC hosting UMU is a pretty huge matchup too.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 02, 2021, 09:20:20 PM
CWRU Schedule  Looks like Rochester is locked in as the opener for the foreseeable future, killing SoS.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/schedule
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on June 03, 2021, 09:53:52 AM
Coach Chad has done a solid job rebuilding the coaching staff and has brought in some good recruits over the past couple of years. I think the YJs will be a much more competitive team sooner than some may think.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 03, 2021, 11:05:45 AM
Quote from: ITH radio on June 03, 2021, 09:53:52 AM
Coach Chad has done a solid job rebuilding the coaching staff and has brought in some good recruits over the past couple of years. I think the YJs will be a much more competitive team sooner than some may think.

He succeeded at MIT; one wonders why he left. Still, to help with RRs I'd like to see a quality South Region team, such as Centre. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 08, 2021, 02:48:07 PM
CWRU is fortunate to have both W&J and Westminster at home.  Regardless of the opener, the goal is always to win the PAC and get that automatic bid.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 11, 2021, 03:28:17 PM
Looked through  the Lindys football pre season mag this afternoon.

Westminster is ranked #12, W&J is #13

Colt Morgan is a pre season All American, along with someone from Westminster. Mentioned Wolf returning from his injury and having a great Spring for W&J.

Made mention of Westminster starting the season playing Mount Union. Quoted MU coach reflecting on the game.

Not bad coverage for the PAC
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 13, 2021, 12:12:10 AM
Grad student RB for CWRU:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CarletonFB/status/1403425647050035208
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 13, 2021, 10:53:42 AM
Quote from: E.115 on June 13, 2021, 12:12:10 AM
Grad student RB for CWRU:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CarletonFB/status/1403425647050035208

He was their leading rusher, but here's his stat line.

RUSHING              GP  Att Gain Loss  Net   Avg  TD Long Avg/G
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Goodman Jr      10   79  369   10  359   4.5   3   30  35.9
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 13, 2021, 10:57:54 AM
Transfer LB from D2 St Anselm he was a first-year there in 2020, but the team did not play any games

6' 215

https://twitter.com/rtoro40
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 20, 2021, 06:46:03 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on June 13, 2021, 10:53:42 AM
Quote from: E.115 on June 13, 2021, 12:12:10 AM
Grad student RB for CWRU:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CarletonFB/status/1403425647050035208

He was their leading rusher, but here's his stat line.

RUSHING              GP  Att Gain Loss  Net   Avg  TD Long Avg/G
----------------------------------------------------------------


According to D3 Football records that go back to 1998 Carlton has not had a winning season. Football is not their thing.
Sean Goodman Jr      10   79  369   10  359   4.5   3   30  35.9
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 20, 2021, 03:21:26 PM
Nice article about W&J qb Justin Heacock:

https://www.daily-jeff.com/story/sports/2021/06/20/qb-justin-heacock-build-freshman-success-washington-jefferson/7760081002/

Be interesting to see how many players come back to use that last year of eligibility.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 22, 2021, 04:55:39 PM
CWRU's Colt Morgan was named a Lindy's Division III Pre-Season Second Team All-American.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210622oum4cg
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 22, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on June 22, 2021, 04:55:39 PM
CWRU's Colt Morgan was named a Lindy's Division III Pre-Season Second Team All-American.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210622oum4cg

Well how about that...honestly did not know Colt was coming back this fall. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 25, 2021, 07:17:23 AM
Quote from: E.115 on June 22, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on June 22, 2021, 04:55:39 PM
CWRU's Colt Morgan was named a Lindy's Division III Pre-Season Second Team All-American.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210622oum4cg

Well how about that...honestly did not know Colt was coming back this fall.

I'm not sure that we can trust Lindy's to have verified that he was coming back, but according to my source he is.

Other 2020 Seniors returning:

Michael Amadio ILB Started 6 games in 2019 leading returning tackler

Joe Dinko WR  Missed 2019 due to injury

Donny Gentin Jr WR Started the exhibition vs Denison

Caleb Montgomery OLB Played in 8 games in 2019 Started exhibition vs Denison

Anthony Polizzi OL  Started all 11 games in 2019 and the exhibition vs Denison

Brennan Ryan OL Started 3 games in 2019 before season ending injury

Jack Williams LS Appeared in 9 games in 2019



   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 25, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
It'll be good to have that additional experience.

Has there been any list released that shows our latest recruiting class?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 25, 2021, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on June 25, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
It'll be good to have that additional experience.

Has there been any list released that shows our latest recruiting class?

There are a number of All-State honorees.

Scroll to May 31 and before.

https://twitter.com/CWRUFootball/with_replies
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 29, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
That Nathan Perkins at DL looks like a human fire hydrant.  HUGE biceps!

What is his height/weight?  Isn't De LaSalle, CA a national high school football powerhouse?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
Ah, I just noticed the new 2021 roster posted.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/roster

6'1" and 245 eh?

As I said............a HUMAN FIRE HYDRANT!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
ADL70,

Do you have any predictions as to our starting line up?  I assume the Carlton RB should be penciled in as a starter, right?  I mean, Saxton and Morgan are givens, but who are the players to watch on defense?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 01, 2021, 04:39:47 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
Ah, I just noticed the new 2021 roster posted.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/roster

6'1" and 245 eh?

As I said............a HUMAN FIRE HYDRANT!!!

What about Joe Mele 5'10 245?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 01, 2021, 05:39:39 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:44:47 PM
ADL70,

Do you have any predictions as to our starting line up?  I assume the Carlton RB should be penciled in as a starter, right?  I mean, Saxton and Morgan are givens, but who are the players to watch on defense?

I suspect that the Carleton RB may find the law school curriculum will take up all of his time. 

FWIW These were starters vs Denison --caveat I'm not sure that the full roster was available for that exhibition.

QB Saxton
RB Day
H-B Wade (in 3 WR sets)
WR Morgan
      DeCaro
      Gentin, Jr
      Knurek
LT  Blamer
LG  Prusha
C    Merritt
RG  Polizzi
RT  Gose   has graduated


DE  Dudowski
NG  Tong
DE  Scheponic
OLB Lindberg
ILB  Glatz moving over from TE last season
ILB   Saluan
OLB  Montgomery
CB  Oddo
S   Doree
S   Majocha not on current roster Zappetelli played some
CB Schuster

KO Lurie
PK  Callow
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 02, 2021, 08:47:29 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
Ah, I just noticed the new 2021 roster posted.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/roster



This roster is HUGE!    Am I seeing this correctly....115 players?

I remember the days when we have 50-60 guys in the mid-2000s.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 02, 2021, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: E.115 on July 02, 2021, 08:47:29 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
Ah, I just noticed the new 2021 roster posted.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/roster



This roster is HUGE!    Am I seeing this correctly....115 players?


I remember the days when we have 50-60 guys in the mid-2000s.

Quick pivot table on the 2021 CWRU roster:

Bringing in 12 freshmen linebackers??  What is this, Mount Union recruiting??  8-)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on July 02, 2021, 10:08:14 AM
And the PAC ends up in Region 3 with the ODAC, USASAC, and SAA. Something tells me we won't see a lot of in region OOC play between the PAC and anyone but maybe Centre and Shenandoah. This is not going to help with setting Regional Rankings. No one wants Trinity and Hendrix in this region. Berry, Huntingdon and Birmingham Southern are only slightly better for anyone but each other.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 02, 2021, 11:07:53 AM
Quote from: jknezek on July 02, 2021, 10:08:14 AM
And the PAC ends up in Region 3 with the ODAC, USASAC, and SAA. Something tells me we won't see a lot of in region OOC play between the PAC and anyone but maybe Centre and Shenandoah. This is not going to help with setting Regional Rankings. No one wants Trinity and Hendrix in this region. Berry, Huntingdon and Birmingham Southern are only slightly better for anyone but each other.

https://d3football.com/notables/2021/07/division-iii-football-new-look-2021

I'd love to see Centre on the CWRU schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 02, 2021, 11:16:51 AM
Quote from: E.115 on July 02, 2021, 08:47:29 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
Ah, I just noticed the new 2021 roster posted.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/roster



This roster is HUGE!    Am I seeing this correctly....115 players?

I remember the days when we have 50-60 guys in the mid-2000s.

Factors that make for the large roster include 7 super seniors using extra year of eligibility and no attrition from last season's large class of first-years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 02, 2021, 12:40:05 PM

[/quote]

Quick pivot table on the 2021 CWRU roster:

Bringing in 12 freshmen linebackers??  What is this, Mount Union recruiting??  8-)
[/quote]

Makes some sense since only 5 LB in upper two classes. Surprising that only 2 OLs
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 02, 2021, 01:20:02 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 02, 2021, 10:08:14 AM
And the PAC ends up in Region 3 with the ODAC, USASAC, and SAA. Something tells me we won't see a lot of in region OOC play between the PAC and anyone but maybe Centre and Shenandoah. This is not going to help with setting Regional Rankings. No one wants Trinity and Hendrix in this region. Berry, Huntingdon and Birmingham Southern are only slightly better for anyone but each other.

Interesting.  Region 3 looks fairly balanced with the typical top teams:  https://d3football.com/teams/region-3
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 02, 2021, 01:22:29 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 02, 2021, 12:40:05 PM

Quote

Quick pivot table on the 2021 CWRU roster:

Bringing in 12 freshmen linebackers??  What is this, Mount Union recruiting??  8-)

Makes some sense since only 5 LB in upper two classes. Surprising that only 2 OLs

3 total QBs on the roster, including 0 in the recruiting class is also a bit surprising.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 02, 2021, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: E.115 on July 02, 2021, 01:22:29 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on July 02, 2021, 12:40:05 PM

Quote

Quick pivot table on the 2021 CWRU roster:

Bringing in 12 freshmen linebackers??  What is this, Mount Union recruiting??  8-)

Makes some sense since only 5 LB in upper two classes. Surprising that only 2 OLs

3 total QBs on the roster, including 0 in the recruiting class is also a bit surprising.

Check out Dahlem's bio. He was an all-state qb. Might be used like Ryan Coolidge. Connor Rich was also a qb in hs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 02, 2021, 03:06:57 PM
As I recall, there was one year under Pete Germano when I'm not even sure that there were 50 players on the entire roster!

Things sure have changed.................AND FOR THE BETTER!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 02, 2021, 03:18:53 PM
ADL70,

I realize it was just a scrimmage, but I don't get the impression that we looked very good against Denison.

Did you see the game?  If so, then did we appear to have regressed as a program?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 02, 2021, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 02, 2021, 03:18:53 PM
ADL70,

I realize it was just a scrimmage, but I don't get the impression that we looked very good against Denison.

Did you see the game?  If so, then did we appear to have regressed as a program?

Saxton was ineffective. Denison covered Morgan well. Three times in red zone only got two FGs. Pass D gave up big plays.

https://denisonbigred.com/sports/2020/8/21/watch.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 02, 2021, 03:44:32 PM
Ugh.

Well that's not promising.  I hope that it'll be different in Fall 2021!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 02, 2021, 04:04:33 PM
I just watched one of the drives against Denison that resulted in a field goal.

We really could have used the new RB from Carlton.  His 225 pound "bowling ball" frame would have been good for short yardage goal line runs.

Hopefully, he'll be able to fit football in around law school.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 12, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Spartans first practice is in one month, August 12.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 14, 2021, 12:19:39 PM
Three Spartan football players were named Academic All-Americans, tying a program record.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210714i47aoq
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 14, 2021, 04:22:15 PM
Other PAC honorees:

https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2020-21/releases/20210714i8h6vv

https://gopresidents.com/news/2021/7/14/sean-doran-alex-keith-earn-spots-on-cosida-academic-all-america-division-iii-football-teams.aspx

https://athletics.westminster.edu/news/2021/7/14/football-mika-and-barr-named-cosida-academic-all-americans.aspx

https://athletics.gcc.edu/news/2021/7/14/football-gustafson-brake-earn-academic-all-america.aspx

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 15, 2021, 04:47:25 PM
Drex Saxton is listed as #13 in The College Football Network's list of Top Division III QBs.

https://twitter.com/thecfbnetwork/status/1415113951696805889/photo/2
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 19, 2021, 08:18:19 PM
So terribly sad  :(

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/07/former-case-western-university-football-player-found-dead-on-i-90-in-cleveland-remembered-by-his-family.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BSCpanthers on July 29, 2021, 11:15:15 PM
In Latrobe for work for a couple days.  St Vincent looks to have a beautiful campus, even though I didn't actually get on campus.  But I got a serious question, do people not eat out in this town???  A lot of restaurants are closed and the ones open don't have dine in options.  When I asked if it was COVID protocols, people looked at me like I instantly grew a third eye on my forehead.  And responded with "no, we don't know why other places are closed, we are just repairing our dining room, so it's closed".

Strangest thing I've dealt with, even Chicago wasn't closed down like this place is.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on July 31, 2021, 10:16:41 AM
Consider, many restaurants in the Latrobe area banked on making 60-75% of their ANNUAL revenue during Steelers training camp.
That was lost in 2020, plus the other revenue due to COVID-19.
Now, they were told a couple weeks ago that Steelers training camp was NOT returning to Latrobe this year, due to NFL decisions.

How long can you stay open under those total losses?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 01, 2021, 07:12:01 PM
PAC Media Day this Tues Aug 3  11:10am EDT

https://pacathletics.org/news/2021/7/19/pac-announces-date-for-football-media-day.aspx

EDIT: conflicting information on time for presser. PAC's Roku channel says 11:10 while 12:35 here  http://www.pacstream.net/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MUC57 on August 02, 2021, 10:28:20 AM

FWIW

Nick Sirianni, former player and graduate of Mount Union and brother of Washington and Jefferson head coach Mike Sirianni, has been named Head Coach of the Philadelphia Eagles.
Another example of Mount Union graduates doing well in the coaching ranks. Go Raiders (and ex-Raiders)!  ;D
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 03, 2021, 04:33:52 PM
https://pacathletics.org/news/2021/7/31/headlines-pac-preseason-football-poll.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 04, 2021, 04:37:05 PM
W&J has 2021 roster posted. 157 total. 58 Frosh, 44 soph, 20 Jrs, 35 Srs. Looks like a fair number of 5th year Srs. Defense should be strong and offense should be balanced.  Opener against John Carrol will be a good test.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 06, 2021, 12:02:17 PM
CWRU Media Guide with Season Preview

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/files/2021FBMediaGuide.pdf
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 07, 2021, 10:21:51 AM
" When the Spartans take the field at the University of Rochester for their season opener on September 4, it will mark a stretch of 652 days since the last time the team has played an official collegiate game. CWRU will play its first PAC contest in 666 days when it travels to face Waynesburg University on September 11 and will return to DiSanto Field for its first home game in 687 days for a pivotal matchup on September 18 against Westminster College (Pa.), which claimed the conference title in the shortened 2021 spring season."

This really shows how "Covid time" has felt like living in another dimension. 600+ days!?!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: BSCpanthers on August 07, 2021, 11:37:45 AM
We are roughly 501 days into 2 weeks to flatten the curve. 

And if we aren't careful, some of those restrictions may resurface over the next couple weeks due to the latest spike.

I just want our normal life back where we can watch football, on campus, the way it's meant to be enjoyed!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 16, 2021, 10:42:24 PM
The case football team hasn't played since 2019 and values ​​their return to gridiron


https://ohionewstime.com/the-case-football-team-hasnt-played-since-2019-and-values-%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8Btheir-return-to-gridiron-news-herald/233989/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 17, 2021, 07:51:45 AM
Interesting article. Wonder if English is the writer's first language, though.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Hawks88 on August 17, 2021, 08:59:22 AM
Almost more like a computer program generated it after being fed a few pertinent pieces of info.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 19, 2021, 06:34:09 AM
Former PAC member Thomas More has been provisionally accepted by the NCAA DII Great Midwest Conference.
Here is a link to the article from The Cincinnati Enquirer.

https://news.url.google.com/url?sa=j&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cincinnati.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2Fothercolleges%2F2021%2F08%2F18%2Fncaa-dii-athletics-thomas-more-university-join-gmac%2F8178606002%2F&uct=1589022034&usg=zd-XSJoV6oQD3OzpUMLf3VfLctk.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 19, 2021, 04:51:16 PM
Anyone here have the scoop on today's scrimmage between CWRU and Kenyon?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 19, 2021, 06:09:10 PM
https://www.news-herald.com/2021/08/19/photos-case-western-reserve-kenyon-football-scrimmage-aug-19-2021/

https://ohionewstime.com/devanea-conriff-south-of-notre-dame-university-looks-sharp-with-scrimmage/236912/ [Includes CWRU scrimmage video of two Saxon TD passes
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 20, 2021, 10:53:25 AM
https://www.d3football.com/notables/2021/08/lackner-to-retire-following-season
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 23, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Just announced that Allegheny College is returning to the PAC next year. There is a video at the PAC site with comments by PAC Commish.,  Allegheny President and the head of the Conference Presidents Committee.  Key driver appears to be geography. Good news for PAC.  Unless there are other shoes to drop, this would appear to eliminate that early non-conference football game, and opens up a slot in the NCAC schedule.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 23, 2021, 05:34:36 PM
True. We did announce that a couple of weeks ago on Twitter as well. Dave McHugh broke the news on his Hoopsville account.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 23, 2021, 05:47:50 PM
Any additional insight on why? Any other shoes to drop?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 23, 2021, 05:58:48 PM
OK, then is it a certainty that there will no longer be a non-conference game on each team's schedule?

Or will PAC teams simply not play every opponent every year?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 23, 2021, 06:22:58 PM
I saw some references that Allegheny was laying off some staff. No faculty yet. It is a 6 1/2 hour drive from Meadville to Crawfordsville but only a 2 hour straight shot down I-79 from Meadville to Waynesburg.  I think these are the longest trips for them in each conference. Got to be some savings in making the switch. 

When the PAC briefly had CMU, CWRU, and TMC there was not a full round-robin schedule which created a bit of  a kerfuffle.  I know W&J likes opening with a non-conference opponent, and I am sure there are others in the conference that feel the same way.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 23, 2021, 08:24:19 PM
A scenario

CWRU replaces Allegheny in the NCAC as a football only member and supplements it's UAA schedule for other sports with NCAC members, which may already be happening. CMU is already supplementing it's UAA schedule with PAC members.  Both conferences have 9 conferences games. CWRU and CMU can still start their season with the Academic Bowl. NCAC PAC cross ruffing already happens in other sports so maybe we see more of that. Certainly makes sense geographically and economically. Or, travel/economics rear their ugly head and the UAA collapses and CWRU and CMU become full members of the NCAC and PAC respectively. They can always schedule former UAA schools outside of conference, and for sports not offered by NCAC and PAC. Of course, hubris could also enter and make some or all of this impossible. For the record, I would love to see CWRU stay in the conference for football. They make us better.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 27, 2021, 01:41:34 PM
Bad news for the Spartans:

The football scrimmage between JCU and CWRU tonight at Don Shula Stadium has been cancelled due to COVID issues with Spartans, according to Joe Ginley, JCU SID.
.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 27, 2021, 02:06:11 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 27, 2021, 01:41:34 PM
Bad news for the Spartans:

The football scrimmage between JCU and CWRU tonight at Don Shula Stadium has been cancelled due to COVID issues with Spartans, according to Joe Ginley, JCU SID.
.

At least 3 CWRU players have tested positive as of this morning.

Oh boy :(  Hope we can get over this quickly. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 27, 2021, 03:20:50 PM
I hope that these three are all OK.

I hope that this doesn't become an issue for the entire team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 27, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
Covid vaccination is required for all CWRU students, faculty, and staff.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on August 29, 2021, 04:14:19 PM
What trip are you referring to, Bob?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 29, 2021, 10:52:05 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on August 29, 2021, 01:10:23 PM
Well, guess I won't be making THAT trip this season.....

Because?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 30, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Any picks for opening weekend?

I'm going to pick CWRU over Rochester (assuming that we aren't forced to cancel due to COVID related concerns), but I make that pick cautiously, given how long it's been since we actually played a game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 30, 2021, 07:51:36 PM
A stretch for W&J vs JCU, but it could happen. If W&J plays well, win or lose, it bodes well for the test of the season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 31, 2021, 10:10:48 AM
CWRU Weekly Football Report with no mention of Covid.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/videos/20210831-2lyyktx5
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 31, 2021, 02:56:02 PM
That is encouraging!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 31, 2021, 03:20:01 PM
Good news.

Let's hope that everybody stays safe.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 31, 2021, 05:01:19 PM
CWRU Game Notes
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/t/t/mjl4gtrzdx3djv/fb_Rochester_game_notes21-2.pdf

I count 18 SOs (4 starters) and 4 FYs (2 starters) among the 44 man 2-deep.

Rochester, which also did not play in 2020, has a much more experienced squad.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 31, 2021, 05:07:33 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on August 30, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Any picks for opening weekend?

I'm going to pick CWRU over Rochester (assuming that we aren't forced to cancel due to COVID related concerns), but I make that pick cautiously, given how long it's been since we actually played a game.

# 20 Westminster hosts #2 Mt Union. Do I need to say anything else?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 01, 2021, 10:47:13 AM
Let's hope that Westminster upsets Mount Union.  It'll help our strength of schedule!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 02, 2021, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 31, 2021, 05:01:19 PM
CWRU Game Notes
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/t/t/mjl4gtrzdx3djv/fb_Rochester_game_notes21-2.pdf

I count 18 SOs (4 starters) and 4 FYs (2 starters) among the 44 man 2-deep.

Rochester, which also did not play in 2020, has a much more experienced squad.


"Fee of $7.95 required to watch live streaming video of game"...!
   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2021, 12:14:19 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 02, 2021, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 31, 2021, 05:01:19 PM
CWRU Game Notes
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/t/t/mjl4gtrzdx3djv/fb_Rochester_game_notes21-2.pdf

I count 18 SOs (4 starters) and 4 FYs (2 starters) among the 44 man 2-deep.

Rochester, which also did not play in 2020, has a much more experienced squad.


"Fee of $7.95 required to watch live streaming video of game"...!


I had forgotten that from two years ago. One more reason for dropping Rochester from the schedule. Pretty cheeky for a team that won only four games the last four seasons.

With Allegheny's return to the PAC creating the very undesirable 11 teams in football, would CWRU rejoin the NCAC for football (and maybe baseball), keeping CMU as the last game on the schedule? 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 02, 2021, 03:24:39 PM
How many conference games do NCAC teams normally play?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 02, 2021, 03:36:23 PM
Nevermind.

Looks like nine.

So I get it now.  Your idea is a nine game NCAC football schedule plus one OOC game against CMU.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2021, 03:53:58 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 01, 2021, 10:47:13 AM
Let's hope that Westminster upsets Mount Union.  It'll help our strength of schedule!

Their playing Mt Union alone helps our SoS.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2021, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 01, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
Ah, I just noticed the new 2021 roster posted.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/roster

6'1" and 245 eh?

As I said............a HUMAN FIRE HYDRANT!!!

The predicted starting NG Michael Kelly is 6'0 250
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 02, 2021, 09:09:12 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2021, 12:14:19 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 02, 2021, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 31, 2021, 05:01:19 PM
CWRU Game Notes
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/t/t/mjl4gtrzdx3djv/fb_Rochester_game_notes21-2.pdf

I count 18 SOs (4 starters) and 4 FYs (2 starters) among the 44 man 2-deep.

Rochester, which also did not play in 2020, has a much more experienced squad.


"Fee of $7.95 required to watch live streaming video of game"...!


I had forgotten that from two years ago. One more reason for dropping Rochester from the schedule. Pretty cheeky for a team that won only four games the last four seasons.

With Allegheny's return to the PAC creating the very undesirable 11 teams in football, would CWRU rejoin the NCAC for football (and maybe baseball), keeping CMU as the last game on the schedule?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 02, 2021, 09:13:55 PM
My suggestion a while ago. CWRU to NCAC  for football, play CMU  first game each year to keep the rivalry., both conferences keep full round robin with one OOC game to start the season.  Would NCAC welcome a one sport member?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 04, 2021, 11:06:44 AM
Maybe, as ADL70 suggested, they'd take CWRU as a two sport member (Football and Baseball).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 04, 2021, 02:13:13 PM
Scoreless at halftime in University Heights.n
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 04, 2021, 03:53:07 PM
Impressive win for W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 04, 2021, 04:27:23 PM
It was. Andrew Wolf had a great day and the defense played tough. Looking forward to seeing the stats. JCU penalties  were also a big  factor. Hope we don't have to play them again this year.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 04, 2021, 05:52:31 PM
Very impressed with W & J today.  Way to represent the PAC.  💪🏽

EDIT: and not a bad stat line to start the year for Wolf...172 yards receiving, 3 TDs 😳
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 04, 2021, 07:22:31 PM
.
They did look good.

Just occurred to me that if CWRU leaves the PAC that leaves me and Bob Gregg as the only active participants on this thread.  The ultimate echo chamber. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 04, 2021, 08:58:57 PM
Rochester has sooooo many unsportsmanlike penalties after the whistle.  Not sure what is going on.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 05, 2021, 08:58:34 AM
A little worried about CWRU's defense.

Rochester, which is not considered a good team, outgained us.

Good to get a win, but the D needs work.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 07, 2021, 10:32:54 AM
Congrats to W&J on its big win over JCU. Andrew Wolf takes the lead in the contest for top receiver in the PAC.

Really lackluster performance by the Spartans, although Rochester looks much improved over 2019. Saxton completed barely half of his 37 attempts, although he was hindered by a number of dropped balls, including several high throws to Morgan that he would have come down with in the past and a RB wide open in the end zone at the end of the first half. That possession ended in a turn over on downs.

The D is inexperienced with only three returning starters and only one other experienced player, who was making his first collegiate start. The other seven starters, including two first-years, were playing in their first collegiate game. This weekend's opponent Waynesburg was beaten 49-6 by a low tier OAC team, so that should restore confidence. And you know the cliche' about team's biggest improvement coming from their first game to the second.     
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 11, 2021, 01:38:11 PM
37-0 as the first quarter ends in Greenville
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 11, 2021, 02:28:38 PM
35-13 Halftime in Waynesburg.

Waynesburg seems to be focusing on Morgan, which is opening it up for everyone else.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 11, 2021, 02:30:03 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 11, 2021, 01:38:11 PM
37-0 as the first quarter ends in Greenville

:o  You guys playing a different sport over there?!?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 11, 2021, 03:32:08 PM
Final 64-12. Thiel scored 12 in fourth quarter against a mix of second team and some not on the depth chart. W&J was about to score in the last 3 minutes but Sirianni opted to run out the clock by taking a knee.

There were no live stats, but I'm sure they will reflect the score.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 11, 2021, 03:41:16 PM
Looks like you were playing basketball as well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 11, 2021, 03:43:00 PM
Looks like you were tested today as well
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 11, 2021, 05:34:27 PM
At least this week, unlike in week one, we did what we might be expected to do against a weaker team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 11, 2021, 05:54:14 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 11, 2021, 05:34:27 PM
At least this week, unlike in week one, we did what we might be expected to do against a weaker team.

Give up 33points?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 11, 2021, 06:47:29 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 11, 2021, 05:54:14 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 11, 2021, 05:34:27 PM
At least this week, unlike in week one, we did what we might be expected to do against a weaker team.

Give up 33points?

Yeah, I'm worried about our defense.  We gave up 5 TDs and 364 yards passing to a team which had no TDs and 21 yards passing against Muskingum last week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 11, 2021, 11:21:41 PM
Perhaps I underestimated Muskingum https://www.d3football.com/seasons/2021/boxscores/20210911_uh1h.xml
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 12, 2021, 12:27:20 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 11, 2021, 11:21:41 PM
Perhaps I underestimated Muskingum https://www.d3football.com/seasons/2021/boxscores/20210911_uh1h.xml

I just came on here to say the same thing.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 13, 2021, 04:38:07 PM
Just a 'heads up' for W&J long-timers....

The College has hired a company to handle the video feed of the home games.
That company is providing announcers for that broadcast.

If you want the WJPA Radio feed, it'll only be available at our website (not imbedded in the video feed):

http://us7.maindigitalstream.com/2418/

Not a commentary on the announcers who will be on the video feed (don't have any idea about them).
Just letting you faithful long-timers know.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 13, 2021, 05:52:48 PM
That is a shame, Bob. I enjoy you, Mark, and Bill. Saturday I tried streaming the Thiel video while streaming your broadcast. Impossible to keep them synched. Thiel had no play by play, so the stadium "announcer" was all there was.  I guess we will learn more Saturday evening. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2021, 09:40:53 AM
Some streams let you pause and they pick up there.
Some streams say pause but they jump back to realtime when you resume.
That's the challenge....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 14, 2021, 12:50:18 PM
THREE PAC players on this week's d3football Team of the Week!

RB Tre Vasiliadis, So., Carnegie Mellon
Vasiliadis ran for a career-high 263 yards on 39 carries and two touchdowns to help lead the Tartans offense in a 31-17 win at Geneva. He also added a receiving touchdown.

WR Dakota Romantino, Fr., Waynesburg
In just his second game as a Yellow Jacket, Romantino recorded the second-most receiving yards in a game in program history. The freshman exploded for nine catches, 260 yards and a touchdown during Waynesburg's PAC game against Case Western Reserve, a 66-33 loss.

LB Cam Norris, Sr., St. Vincent
Norris led a St. Vincent defense that surrendered just 173 yards and seven first downs in the Bearcats' 34-14 season opening win at Bluffton. He totaled five solo tackles, including four behind the line of scrimmage accounting for 13 yards. He had two sacks, including a second-quarter sack on which he forced a fumble.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on September 15, 2021, 10:32:00 AM
Alright Region III fans, I'm willing to run the Regional Weekly Top 10 if I can get a balanced panel. If you are interested, you can either PM me or reply to this message and if I get enough responses maybe we can start next week. Looking for 1 or 2 people from each conference, but if I can get 5 voters total spread through at least 3 of our conferences I'll take it.

We'll run it mostly the same way Ralph has been doing it for years. Ranked 1-10 votes are due to me by PM by Tuesday at midnight, so if you can't commit to that, please don't offer. It's just not going to be worth it for me if I have to track people down every week. Votes will be anonymous in the published poll, but voters are free to discuss or post their own submissions.

It's a lot of fun, you learn about a lot of teams, and sometimes generates some good discussion. I always like being challenged on why I did things, but if you don't want to engage, that's fine also.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 15, 2021, 12:15:38 PM
OK, it took me a few minutes to figure out precisely where the PAC sits in the new "Regional" scheme.

Seems about right.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 15, 2021, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 15, 2021, 12:15:38 PM
OK, it took me a few minutes to figure out precisely where the PAC sits in the new "Regional" scheme.

Seems about right.

The PAC puts the -ish in South Atlantic-ish. :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 16, 2021, 09:58:38 AM
Returning to the question of 11-team conference scheduling, I see that the d3 MAC currently has 11 members playing football and they play just 8 conference games. How do they determine which 2 teams a particular school won't play?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ITH radio on September 16, 2021, 12:49:11 PM
Conversation we had with CRWU QB Drew Saxton:

https://www.facebook.com/D3Huddle/videos/837957633581537

Impressive young man. Should be a great matchup btw the Spartans and Titans Saturday night. Good luck to both teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 18, 2021, 03:43:57 PM
Perhaps underestimated Rochester as well. https://www.d3football.com/seasons/2021/boxscores/20210918_m6u5.xml
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 18, 2021, 05:17:27 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on September 16, 2021, 12:49:11 PM
Conversation we had with CRWU QB Drew Saxton:

https://www.facebook.com/D3Huddle/videos/837957633581537

Impressive young man. Should be a great matchup btw the Spartans and Titans Saturday night. Good luck to both teams.

Great listen!  Thank you
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 21, 2021, 06:41:13 PM
For the second week in a row Spartans had a d3football Team of the Week performance put up against them. This week two from Westminster: DE Brayden Thimons and CB Brice Butler
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 23, 2021, 05:40:36 PM
What's up with Andrew Wolf? Had great game against JCU, not even on the two deep this week, but still on the roster. I assume he has an injury.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 23, 2021, 07:56:29 PM
Sept. 25 has been the return target for both Wolf and Burns.  We'll see.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 23, 2021, 09:10:43 PM
Thanks, Bob!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on September 23, 2021, 11:14:22 PM
Whats the Status for Colt Morgan on Sat?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 24, 2021, 12:56:19 PM
I see that the D3 guys unanimously picked W&J this week, which makes sense.  I would fully expect W&J to be favored in this game by nearly everyone.  However, I hope Riley is wrong in saying that they "should have little trouble getting past Case Western Reserve."  I don't know what to think of CWRU's first few games, but the Westminster score ending up lopsided is a bit misleading.  CWRU had 27 first downs to Westminster's 17, gained more yards on offense, and had the ball for 15 minutes more than Westminster.  It's just hard to win when your QB uncharacteristically throws 5 INTs.  Hopefully this week will be a better game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 25, 2021, 07:34:39 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on September 24, 2021, 12:56:19 PM
I see that the D3 guys unanimously picked W&J this week, which makes sense.  I would fully expect W&J to be favored in this game by nearly everyone.  However, I hope Riley is wrong in saying that they "should have little trouble getting past Case Western Reserve."  I don't know what to think of CWRU's first few games, but the Westminster score ending up lopsided is a bit misleading.  CWRU had 27 first downs to Westminster's 17, gained more yards on offense, and had the ball for 15 minutes more than Westminster.  It's just hard to win when your QB uncharacteristically throws 5 INTs.  Hopefully this week will be a better game.

While injuries affect every team (witness earlier discussion of W&J's Wolf), Morgan was not on the field, other than the sidelines with no visible injury, after the first quarter. And another WR starter, Cain, did not play at all. Backups started at NG and ILB and RG. Westminster also had an open date the week before, while CWRU was playing it's third straight game. The Waynesboro game was originally scheduled for October 9, I'm don't know who requested the change. But props to Westminster's relentless pass rush that the Spartan's had no answer for.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 25, 2021, 12:13:38 PM
Mostly I meant that I don't know what to make of our defense.  They played much better against a tough Westminster team than they did the first two games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 25, 2021, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on September 25, 2021, 12:13:38 PM
Mostly I meant that I don't know what to make of our defense.  They played much better against a tough Westminster team than they did the first two games.

They are young mostly FY and So. If you look at the 2-deep from the game notes there's been a bit of a shake up in the secondary, but I don't know if that is due to injuries.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 25, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Westminster retakes the lead vs. Grove City on a pass with a CLEAR hold and ineligible man downfield on the same play...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 25, 2021, 06:41:01 PM
I thought that I saw the ineligible man
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2021, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 25, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Westminster retakes the lead vs. Grove City on a pass with a CLEAR hold and ineligible man downfield on the same play...
Scroll to Part 2, 43:00 mark.....offensive holding AND ineligible downfield on a pass across the line of scrimmage.
Analyst celebrates what a great block it was....oh, boy.
The lineman (#56) was several yards beyond the receiver who was 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

https://www.wkbn.com/sports/game-of-the-week/westminster-hosts-grove-city-saturdays-wkbn-college-game-of-the-week/?fbclid=IwAR32QRLvlXHC74sDgqQ18VtzdmBo0ow_OYyKiv6eUdpG6krh7PWN7fgmRF0
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on September 29, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2021, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 25, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Westminster retakes the lead vs. Grove City on a pass with a CLEAR hold and ineligible man downfield on the same play...
Scroll to Part 2, 43:00 mark.....offensive holding AND ineligible downfield on a pass across the line of scrimmage.
Analyst celebrates what a great block it was....oh, boy.
The lineman (#56) was several yards beyond the receiver who was 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

https://www.wkbn.com/sports/game-of-the-week/westminster-hosts-grove-city-saturdays-wkbn-college-game-of-the-week/?fbclid=IwAR32QRLvlXHC74sDgqQ18VtzdmBo0ow_OYyKiv6eUdpG6krh7PWN7fgmRF0

As a defensive minded person. The advent of the RPO (especially in College) definitely would have given me more gray hairs. However, in this case, it being a screen play, typically referees are on top of illegal men downfield. However, I think everyone, including the referees were surprise with the call. Doesn't make it right, it was absolutely a missed call as the TE caught the ball beyond the line of scrimmage and the lineman was beyond 3 yards before pass was caught. I do think these calls should be reviewable at the higher level, but being a ref is a hard job. As far as holding goes, it's holding every play. This was still a good game. Hopefully the PAC Schools can get into the RR to help Grove get to the table in regards to At-large bid as we currently stand. However, Juniata going 0fer is definitely not going to help SOS.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 29, 2021, 02:01:54 PM
Fan, it was a very enjoyable game to watch.

There IS holding on nearly every play, but when #55 (right side) got beat, he grabbed the jersey of the defender going past him out in the open. That's HOLDING.

Regarding the ineligible downfield, it's not even close. The pass is caught 4 yards beyond the LOS, and the O-lineman (#56) was 2-3 yards ahead of that.

I recognize the difficulties officials have. I've worn basketball stripes. I've worn baseball blues.  But these missed calls in this situation are indefensible. They were clear, out in the open and blown. Period. And they contributed to put points on the board.  That's unacceptable.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 30, 2021, 01:33:24 PM
On Twitter, I saw that a player from Northern Kentucky was among the recruits hosted at last Saturday's game. His is name Jacob Fields. I know that the Indians have a corporate sponsor and now it's Progressive Field, but I couldn't help thinking of Jacobs Field.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 02, 2021, 08:32:52 PM
Bob,

Watched the game and listened to your broadcast. You were one play ahead of the video, so I always knew what was coming😀😀.

Not pretty, but a good comeback. That is clearly one offense that needs a lot of prep since you only see it once a year in the PAC. Great recovery for the Prez in second half.

Also watched most of the CWRU game. I'm sure our Case friends here are disappointed. Three conference losses already. As has been mentioned here Case missed the Spring and has lots of new players.

Also looks like the PAC is on the rise and will be a stronger conference going forward. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2021, 08:24:05 AM
CWRU's only previous loss to StV was 2014; also the last time they lost as many as three in a row (lost four in a row to end the season and ended 3-7). Hopefully not headed there. Morgan finally got a lot of targets, but he's failing to haul in passes that he would have in year's past and not breaking tackles. Fade's to him were almost a sure TD  in the past. He only has one TD this season. Overall the receivers don't seem to get much separation.

Give StV's coaches credit. They made adjustments to the run game and took the second half kick and marched down the field to tie the game. Then Saxton threw his second pick six of the season. Nearly all of the Bearcat's rushing yards were in the second half.

Spartans get a week off to regroup and heal and then face 0-5 Bethany
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 03, 2021, 09:06:38 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2021, 08:24:05 AM
Overall the receivers don't seem to get much separation.

Apologies if I missed it somewhere, but is Michael Wojkowski injured?  He hasn't played the last two games, and wasn't even listed on the two deep.  That really hurts them, as he is probably the fastest guy on the team.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 03, 2021, 04:54:00 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 03, 2021, 09:06:38 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 03, 2021, 08:24:05 AM
Overall the receivers don't seem to get much separation.

Apologies if I missed it somewhere, but is Michael Wojkowski injured?  He hasn't played the last two games, and wasn't even listed on the two deep.  That really hurts them, as he is probably the fastest guy on the team.

He was out of uniform for W&J. He is the third leading Spartan WR despite essentially only playing in two of the five games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 09, 2021, 06:30:20 PM
 Bob Gregg,

the quote "I taught him everything he knows, but not everything I know"  was in The Color of Money, and The Mysterious Lady,  a 1928 film starring Greta Garbo, and perhaps others, according to Google.

Another dominating performance today from W&J. Now a bye week to get ready for the big showdown that will probably determine the Conference Champion. Again, your broadcast was about one play ahead of the broadcast.

Jeff
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2021, 10:02:53 PM
FINAL:  Carnegie-Mellon 34, #24 Westminster 10.

According to announcer Bob Orkwis, CMU's 4th straight win over a Top 25 opponent.


From Quick Takes:
"Which Top 25 team is most likely to be upset...
Kevin's take: No. 24 Westminster (Pa.). On the road at Carnegie Mellon, this matchup hasn't been decided by more than 14 points in the last 8 meetings with CMU winning 3 of those.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 11, 2021, 05:26:47 PM
Massive schedule upgrade for CWRU. They host Johns Hopkins in week 1 2022.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 12, 2021, 07:28:23 AM
Interesting. Schedule includes Allegheny but not Thiel.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 12, 2021, 08:43:29 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on October 12, 2021, 07:28:23 AM
Interesting. Schedule includes Allegheny but not Thiel.
Good catch I hadn't noticed that. With Allegheny coming back to the PAC, one team has to left off of each team's conference schedule to allow for one out of conference game. I wonder what process decided which team was left off.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 14, 2021, 02:17:25 PM
Welcome R2 posters, we have R1/R2 discussion located on the R1 section. Happy to add a voter from the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2021, 04:54:38 PM
When did PAC get moved to Region 2?
We've been on Region 3 all year....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 14, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2021, 04:54:38 PM
When did PAC get moved to Region 2?
We've been on Region 3 all year....

https://www.d3football.com/notables/2021/10/region-shift
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2021, 07:10:34 PM
A mid-season shifting of conferences for regional evaluation?
Tell me THAT doesn't have NCAA written all over it.

So, now one region has 50+ teams, one has under 40....
Tell me THAT doesn't have NCAA written all over it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 14, 2021, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2021, 07:10:34 PM
A mid-season shifting of conferences for regional evaluation?
Tell me THAT doesn't have NCAA written all over it.

So, now one region has 50+ teams, one has under 40....
Tell me THAT doesn't have NCAA written all over it.

Hi, Bob -- Region 1 has 51 teams, but 10 of them are the NESCAC, which doesn't participate, so ... not really.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 21, 2021, 11:31:23 AM
Crunch time in the PAC. I wouldn't expect a team with more than 1 loss to win the title (and AQ), but it could happen.

Over the next three weeks, unbeaten W&J faces the three teams with one conference loss:
10/23 Westminster (lost to Carnegie-Mellon)
10/30 Grove City (lost to Westminster)
11/6 Carnegie-Mellon (lost to Grove City)

Of course, the Academic Bowl is also ahead of us (11/13) as CMU hosts CWRU.

CWRU, along with the rest of the field, already has at least 3 conference losses and are out of the playoff picture except as potential spoilers.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on October 21, 2021, 09:32:18 PM
Has Coach Siriani lost 3 times in a row to anyone other than Westminster in the PAC during his time at WJ?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 22, 2021, 07:15:12 AM
Thomas More beat W&J five straight, 2008-2012.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on October 29, 2021, 10:50:03 PM
Tomorrow's WJ/Grove City game looks to be a elimination game for Both teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on October 31, 2021, 09:02:49 AM
And then there were 3
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on October 31, 2021, 11:57:01 AM
Let's assume W&J and Westminster win out. Based on head-to-head criteria does Westminster win PAC and get AQ to playoffs?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 31, 2021, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: Pokerplayer on October 31, 2021, 11:57:01 AM
Let's assume W&J and Westminster win out. Based on head-to-head criteria does Westminster win PAC and get AQ to playoffs?

Yes, that would make both W&J and Westminster 8-1 with the H2H going to Westminster.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on October 31, 2021, 04:41:38 PM
Game of the Week in the PAC next Sat- WJ at Carnegie Mellon
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2021, 05:25:15 PM
If Westminster & W&J win out, Westminster gets the AQ.
If Westminster & CMU win out, CMU gets the AQ.

If W&J wins out and Westminster loses to anyone, W&J gets the AQ.
Grove City was virtually eliminated with yesterday's loss.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2021, 11:23:17 AM
Here's a little tidbit I think I heard a couple weeks ago:

CMU's win over Westminster (the one that gives the Tartans control of the PAC AQ) was their 4th straight win over a Top 25 D3 team.....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on November 01, 2021, 06:11:30 PM
 WJ at Carnegie Mellon -Certainly the Game of the week in the PAC. CM has the top ranked scoring defense and overall defense in the PAC. Should be quite a challenge for The Presidents.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2021, 12:00:17 PM
Two weeks to go snapshot:

Westminster (1 loss--CMU) St.Vincent, Geneva
Carnegie-Mellon (1 loss--Grove) W&J, CWRU
WashJeff (1 loss--West) @CMU, Waynesburg
Grove City (2 losses--West, W&J) @CWRU, @Thiel

CMU doesn't need anything but to win out.
Westminster needs somebody to beat CMU.
W&J needs somebody to beat Westminster.

Grove needs:
Westminster to lose twice
W&J to lose twice
CMU to lose to CWRU
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 06, 2021, 03:45:28 PM
Big day for the UAA.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 06, 2021, 03:46:19 PM
Solid win for CWRU over Grove City (35-21). 

Next week's Academic Bowl @CMU is going to be a doozie!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2021, 02:14:28 PM
Presidents will miss the playoffs for the third straight year, first time that's happened since first making the tournament in 1984.
Best wishes to CMU or Westminster, whichever reps the PAC in the dance.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on November 07, 2021, 02:36:00 PM
Ouch. Very  disappointing for a season that started with such promise.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 07, 2021, 06:00:13 PM
The PAC is a much stronger conference than it has been for a long time. For years it was pretty much just W&J. Then there was Thomas More and W&J.  Now there are five teams that are competitive. Winning this conference will be no cakewalk anymore. Certainly makes things more exciting!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on November 08, 2021, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 07, 2021, 06:00:13 PM
The PAC is a much stronger conference than it has been for a long time. For years it was pretty much just W&J. Then there was Thomas More and W&J.  Now there are five teams that are competitive. Winning this conference will be no cakewalk anymore. Certainly makes things more exciting!

As a new follower of the PAC I've been really impressed with the depth and parity of the conference. Didn't realize this year was an exception lol
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2021, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 07, 2021, 06:00:13 PM
The PAC is a much stronger conference than it has been for a long time. For years it was pretty much just W&J. Then there was Thomas More and W&J.  Now there are five teams that are competitive. Winning this conference will be no cakewalk anymore. Certainly makes things more exciting!
No question about that WJ68. The conference has certainly moved forward, some with the affiliation of CMU & CWRU, some with the upgrading at Grove City, St. Vincent & Westminster.

But the Presidents have come back to the pack as well.  There are lots of reasons for that which I don't have the time now to delve into but some of those reasons have been raised previously.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 10, 2021, 10:04:25 PM
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

South Fayette's Drew Saxton amidst another standout season at Case Western Reserve

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-football/2021/11/10/South-Fayette-Drew-Saxton-quarterback-Case-Western-Reserve-Ethan-Dahlem-Charley-Rossi/stories/202111100039
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on November 13, 2021, 05:16:56 PM
Congrats to CMU for locking up the PAC playoff bid! Based on the spring season I certainly expected it to be Westminster or W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on November 14, 2021, 06:44:50 PM
Tough draw for the Tartans. They open the playoffs with defending champs and #1 ranked North Central. Hope they at least give the Cardinals a decent test.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 14, 2021, 08:53:24 PM
Ditto to WRMU. Disappointing CMU is such a low seed. Guess that is the result of having two losses.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CardinalAlum on November 14, 2021, 10:53:34 PM
Congratulations to CMU!  For anyone traveling to Naperville next weekend that needs any advice on the area, please reach out here, on the CCIW page or in a private message.  Benedetti-Wehrli Stadium is a good sized stadium with plenty of seating.  The stadium sits a block away from some of the downtown area restaurants and bars.  Safe travels!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 15, 2021, 07:45:50 AM
^I love downtown Naperville.  Very impressed last time I was there for a work visit.  (If I recall correctly, ate at Allegory, and beers at Empire).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2021, 01:16:42 PM
Good luck to the Mellons....

Now, on to the ECACs for Westminster, W&J, Grove City:

"We wanted to balance out the field out so everybody didn't go to Pennsylvania"

Westminster (8-2) hosts an ECAC Bowl game (rightly so).
W&J (8-2) gets sent to SUNY-Brockport (7-3).
Grove City (7-3) (love the Grovers) HOSTS a game?
FDU-Florham (6-4) hosts a game (vs. St. Vincent at 5-5)

This is why it's NCAA or Nothing for our broadcast coverage.

Enjoy the Football playoffs, all.
See you in Baseball season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Husker Four four on November 15, 2021, 01:24:05 PM
Presidents apparently drew the short straw. ???
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 15, 2021, 04:12:52 PM
Dusting off the old account here...I have actually been able to follow this season fairly closely via livestreams and stats and whatnot, and even got to attend the last 2 games (W&J and Case).  Couple of really big wins for the Tartans and very excited that Coach Lackner goes out with a PAC title and playoff berth.  Tough draw with North Central, but as noted above, that's whatcha get for having 2 losses.  Maybe the defense can come up with another 6-INT game...

Wish I could be a bit more active here, but 2 young kids and work have made it tough to figure out which leisure pursuits I can stick with.  Thanks so much to all the D3football crew for making coverage accessible.  Amazing times we live in that I could be sitting at home & still watching my own D3 alma mater on a big screen TV.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 15, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: CardinalAlum on November 14, 2021, 10:53:34 PM
Congratulations to CMU!  For anyone traveling to Naperville next weekend that needs any advice on the area, please reach out here, on the CCIW page or in a private message.  Benedetti-Wehrli Stadium is a good sized stadium with plenty of seating.  The stadium sits a block away from some of the downtown area restaurants and bars.  Safe travels!

Thanks CardinalAlum.  I'd have given it some thought if not for the two little monsters running around my house these days.  Hard to leave them in charge of the place just yet!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CardinalAlum on November 15, 2021, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 15, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: CardinalAlum on November 14, 2021, 10:53:34 PM
Congratulations to CMU!  For anyone traveling to Naperville next weekend that needs any advice on the area, please reach out here, on the CCIW page or in a private message.  Benedetti-Wehrli Stadium is a good sized stadium with plenty of seating.  The stadium sits a block away from some of the downtown area restaurants and bars.  Safe travels!

Thanks CardinalAlum.  I'd have given it some thought if not for the two little monsters running around my house these days.  Hard to leave them in charge of the place just yet!

I've been there.  I get it!  Our video stream of the game is really well done.  It's not two kids screaming into the microphone. The broadcast crew is always well prepared and give good information. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: New Tradition on November 16, 2021, 03:10:11 PM
Quote from: CardinalAlum on November 15, 2021, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 15, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: CardinalAlum on November 14, 2021, 10:53:34 PM
Congratulations to CMU!  For anyone traveling to Naperville next weekend that needs any advice on the area, please reach out here, on the CCIW page or in a private message.  Benedetti-Wehrli Stadium is a good sized stadium with plenty of seating.  The stadium sits a block away from some of the downtown area restaurants and bars.  Safe travels!

Thanks CardinalAlum.  I'd have given it some thought if not for the two little monsters running around my house these days.  Hard to leave them in charge of the place just yet!

I've been there.  I get it!  Our video stream of the game is really well done.  It's not two kids screaming into the microphone. The broadcast crew is always well prepared and give good information.

I'll pay ya that $20 next time I see ya!   ;)  Game can be found at northcentralcardinals.com and nctv17.com 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 19, 2021, 09:19:29 AM
Great feature article:

Coury twins making football magic for Carnegie Mellon

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/highschoolsports/2021/11/coury-twins-making-football-magic-for-carnegie-mellon.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 19, 2021, 09:19:29 AM
Great feature article:

Coury twins making football magic for Carnegie Mellon

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/highschoolsports/2021/11/coury-twins-making-football-magic-for-carnegie-mellon.html

Funny story about this.  My parents still reside in eastern PA, where I grew up, but they came out for the last 2 games since the Tartans were having a good year, it's Coach Lackner's last season, and they've got a bunch of grandkids to visit with me & my brother both living in the Pittsburgh area. 

Anyways, my dad turns to me partway into the W&J game and says "Man, that guy Coury is all over the place" after they announced yet another tackle by one of the Coury brothers.  Had to laugh & say "Well, dad, there's two of them!"
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Well, this is a bummer.

https://twitter.com/TartanFB/status/1461739799757340690?s=20
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CardinalAlum on November 19, 2021, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Well, this is a bummer.

https://twitter.com/TartanFB/status/1461739799757340690?s=20

Not at all how we wanted to advance.  Feel awful for those kids that worked so hard to get to the tournament and especially for the Head Coach that is retiring. Wishing the best to Tartan nation on recovery.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:50:21 PM
Quote from: CardinalAlum on November 19, 2021, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Well, this is a bummer.

https://twitter.com/TartanFB/status/1461739799757340690?s=20

Not at all how we wanted to advance.  Feel awful for those kids that worked so hard to get to the tournament and especially for the Head Coach that is retiring. Wishing the best to Tartan nation on recovery.

Just glad that I wasn't already on the road/plane to NCC.  Shame for everyone all around, on both sides really...not that I doubt NCC would have advanced, but you know, you want to play the games!  Now NCC has to just sit on their hands & try to bring energy next weekend...when your team is rolling, it's nice to keep playing the games, so I'm bummed for your guys as well.  It's still a lost chance to suit up and play.

Dry humor from a friend/teammate of mine: "On a positive note, we're still the best team in CMU history" [referring to our 2006 team]
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: hazzben on November 19, 2021, 12:57:09 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Well, this is a bummer.

https://twitter.com/TartanFB/status/1461739799757340690?s=20

Bummer, that's a tough break. Even if a W wasn't likely, the playoffs is a unique experience, and you want to see how you measure up.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: robertgoulet on November 19, 2021, 02:41:19 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:50:21 PM
Quote from: CardinalAlum on November 19, 2021, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Well, this is a bummer.

https://twitter.com/TartanFB/status/1461739799757340690?s=20

Not at all how we wanted to advance.  Feel awful for those kids that worked so hard to get to the tournament and especially for the Head Coach that is retiring. Wishing the best to Tartan nation on recovery.

Just glad that I wasn't already on the road/plane to NCC.  Shame for everyone all around, on both sides really...not that I doubt NCC would have advanced, but you know, you want to play the games!  Now NCC has to just sit on their hands & try to bring energy next weekend...when your team is rolling, it's nice to keep playing the games, so I'm bummed for your guys as well.  It's still a lost chance to suit up and play.

Dry humor from a friend/teammate of mine: "On a positive note, we're still the best team in CMU history" [referring to our 2006 team]

At the very least they can get some mileage out of "we would have won the title if we'd have played".
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ncc_fan on November 19, 2021, 03:05:48 PM
Feeling sad for the Carnegie Mellon players & staff, especially the seniors.  :'(
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 19, 2021, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Well, this is a bummer.

https://twitter.com/TartanFB/status/1461739799757340690?s=20

Ice Bear sending his condolences to the Tartans on a very tough break. Ice says congratulations on a great ****ing season. This was a season to be proud of to say the least!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: New Tradition on November 19, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Really sorry this game didn't happen.  Feel for the CM seniors.  Wishing you all a speedy recovery and safe travels. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on November 19, 2021, 03:58:56 PM
I feel especially bad for the Tartans considering they had 99% vaccination rate on campus. They did their best to prevent this type of situation. CMU could probably have reasonably just quarantined the positive students and let the rest of the team participate, but I appreciate their commitment to safety.

I also wonder if there's any way the PAC could have sent an alternative team if they'd had sooner notice? I guess that wouldn't be fair either, now I just feel bad for W&J and Westminster who were in that bottleneck for first place.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 20, 2021, 11:30:41 AM
W&J and Westminster both are playing in ECEC games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Stagg Again!! on November 20, 2021, 10:33:56 PM
Reaching out from Naperville to congratulate the Tartans on their conference title and well-earned tournament berth.  While we missed seeing the young men on the field today, their health and safety trumps all.  Here's to a speedy recovery and seeing you back in the playoffs in 2022. 

Perhaps the NCAA will pair us up again in the tournament in the future, or, better yet, our ADs will find a way to schedule a regular season Home and Away series between our institutions.  If that happens, you will surely find me in the visitors stands in Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on December 01, 2021, 05:02:20 PM
Coaching change at Thiel:

https://thielathletics.com/news/2021/12/1/football-geisler-announced-as-new-thiel-college-interim-head-football-coach.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: IUPHawk on January 11, 2022, 10:06:50 PM
I am a normal poster on the D2 Message board and saw this post, wanted to know if any W&J posters had any info on this rumor?  I tried doing a screen shot and uploading but the file was too big it says....


josephpaul996
#73
01-09-2022, 07:18 PM
According to my sources a very interesting name is tied to the Clarion job. His father is in the hall of fame there and his younger brother is the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on January 12, 2022, 02:41:09 PM
Be interesting to see what happens. Mike has never had a losing season as a head coach, so this would be quite a change if it were to happen. I'm a big fan of Mike and it would be a shame to lose him, but perhaps he is looking for a new challenge. He has been mentioned in the past as a candidate for a division 2 job, but it didn't happen.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on January 18, 2022, 06:48:11 AM
I read the thread on the D2 Board. Looks like the Clarion situation is pretty dire and there are several major roadblocks to turning it around. I can't imagine this is the kind of "challenge" Mike is looking for.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on January 21, 2022, 06:32:37 PM
Debs was interviewed at the half of today's basketball game and reported that Saxton will return for his extra Covid year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on January 25, 2022, 11:51:39 PM
Some more CWRU news:

DL transferring from Dartmouth for his Master's Degree and extra year of Covid-era eligibility:

https://twitter.com/nateboone98/status/1486148768579960838?s=21
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on February 10, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
There are speculations that CWRU, Rochester, Carnegie-Mellon, WASHU, Chicago are possibly looking to add one more team to get to 6 football playing members.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 10, 2022, 11:45:46 AM
Interesting. That would leave 5 OOC games for them to schedule. That could prove challenging. Who could be potential candidates?  Do they have any contractual obligations with current conferences that could get in the way?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 10, 2022, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on February 10, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
There are speculations that CWRU, Rochester, Carnegie-Mellon, WASHU, Chicago are possibly looking to add one more team to get to 6 football playing members.

Just who is speculating? Could they find another 6-team football conference to pair up with for scheduling? It seems to me that scheduling had a lot to do with the breakup of UAA football. With PAC now having an unwieldy 11 football-playing schools and NCAC down to nine with Allegheny's move. I would like to see CWRU go back to NCAC for football and keep Carnegie Mellon as 10th game, as WashU and Chicago do in their respective football conferences. Before DePauw joined NCAC Wabash was able to keep the Bell game in week eleven.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 22, 2022, 07:29:10 AM
Spartans now have 16 "commits" including the DL Grad-Xfr from Dartmouth mentioned earlier and an All-Ohio QB

https://twitter.com/AaronFilips   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 22, 2022, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 10, 2022, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on February 10, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
There are speculations that CWRU, Rochester, Carnegie-Mellon, WASHU, Chicago are possibly looking to add one more team to get to 6 football playing members.

Just who is speculating? Could they find another 6-team football conference to pair up with for scheduling? It seems to me that scheduling had a lot to do with the breakup of UAA football. With PAC now having an unwieldy 11 football-playing schools and NCAC down to nine with Allegheny's move. I would like to see CWRU go back to NCAC for football and keep Carnegie Mellon as 10th game, as WashU and Chicago do in their respective football conferences. Before DePauw joined NCAC Wabash was able to keep the Bell game in week eleven.

Doesn't seem likely that either will happen. CWRU has posted schedules for 2023 and 2024 with 10 PAC games each year.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on February 23, 2022, 09:12:40 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 22, 2022, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 10, 2022, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on February 10, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
There are speculations that CWRU, Rochester, Carnegie-Mellon, WASHU, Chicago are possibly looking to add one more team to get to 6 football playing members.

Just who is speculating? Could they find another 6-team football conference to pair up with for scheduling? It seems to me that scheduling had a lot to do with the breakup of UAA football. With PAC now having an unwieldy 11 football-playing schools and NCAC down to nine with Allegheny's move. I would like to see CWRU go back to NCAC for football and keep Carnegie Mellon as 10th game, as WashU and Chicago do in their respective football conferences. Before DePauw joined NCAC Wabash was able to keep the Bell game in week eleven.

Doesn't seem likely that either will happen. CWRU has posted schedules for 2023 and 2024 with 10 PAC games each year.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

Wonder how many of the PAC schools will do the same and have 10 PAC games. Also, how will that play into at-large. I guess it's better than not having a game?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 23, 2022, 02:26:06 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on February 23, 2022, 09:12:40 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 22, 2022, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on February 10, 2022, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on February 10, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
There are speculations that CWRU, Rochester, Carnegie-Mellon, WASHU, Chicago are possibly looking to add one more team to get to 6 football playing members.

Just who is speculating? Could they find another 6-team football conference to pair up with for scheduling? It seems to me that scheduling had a lot to do with the breakup of UAA football. With PAC now having an unwieldy 11 football-playing schools and NCAC down to nine with Allegheny's move. I would like to see CWRU go back to NCAC for football and keep Carnegie Mellon as 10th game, as WashU and Chicago do in their respective football conferences. Before DePauw joined NCAC Wabash was able to keep the Bell game in week eleven.

Doesn't seem likely that either will happen. CWRU has posted schedules for 2023 and 2024 with 10 PAC games each year.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

Wonder how many of the PAC schools will do the same and have 10 PAC games. Also, how will that play into at-large. I guess it's better than not having a game?

FWIW All 10 games are shown as conference games. On the 2022 schedule there are 9 conference games shown.  CMU however has two non-conf games and only 8 PAC games. Perhaps 2022 will be a transition to a 10-game PAC schedule in 2023. W&J's site shows its game with Saint Vincent as not a PAC game, so CWRU's site may be incorrect about its Waynesburg game counting as a conference game, although Waynesburg's site shows it being a PAC game. Those were the only 2022 schedules I could find.

I don't think at-large will be much of an issue as Pool C is shrinking and those will go to the power conferences (WIAC, CCIW, OAC, MIAC), but it may effect hosting, since SoS will be .500, if there are no non-conf games.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on March 02, 2022, 09:23:15 PM
Well this isn't pretty. Kudos to W&J for doing the right thing.

https://www.wtae.com/article/washington-and-jefferson-college-student-expelled-after-displaying-sign-targeting-westminster-basketball-player/39267796

I mean, I did dumb things in college, but at least I wasn't intentionally cruel...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on March 03, 2022, 09:03:44 AM
Quote from: jknezek on March 02, 2022, 09:23:15 PM
Well this isn't pretty. Kudos to W&J for doing the right thing.

https://www.wtae.com/article/washington-and-jefferson-college-student-expelled-after-displaying-sign-targeting-westminster-basketball-player/39267796

I mean, I did dumb things in college, but at least I wasn't intentionally cruel...

Yeah, that's horrible. Can't even say it was meant out of jest on that. Something like that is never right regardless of era.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on March 18, 2022, 04:26:39 PM
Clarion has hired a new coach, so I guess Mike will be back next year. I expect he will be on top of what his players are doing off the field much more than in past years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 02, 2022, 10:56:39 AM
Noticed that CWRU just got a commitment from IMG Academy.

https://twitter.com/Chris_w_lim/status/1520869026364370945/photo/2
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on May 02, 2022, 11:57:23 AM
Impressive!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 03, 2022, 03:52:42 PM
Yesterday CWRU began reporting its incoming players on its twitter account one every hour or so in alphabetical order. 18 players posted so far and only as far as the Ks.

https://twitter.com/CWRUFootball

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 05, 2022, 12:06:45 PM
^Really interesting to see the lack of Ohio recruits.  Always neat to see CA, FL, MD, NJ, WA, IL, etc.

A ton of PA talent.  Looks like the majority of new freshmen this year are coming from PA.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 06, 2022, 08:36:08 PM
https://www.americanfootballworldwide.com/PDF/Resources/2022-CWRU-Tour.pdf

Spartans play a game in Italy tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUfqNddxIg

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 11, 2022, 10:55:41 AM
Wow!

What a great trip for our kids!!!  Some extra playing experience as well!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on May 16, 2022, 10:53:31 AM
Always great to read these types of stories when kids opt into the program - sounds like we're getting a solid running back who produces chunks of yards and TDs.


Napa Valley Prep Football: Justin-Siena's Parlett opts for North Coast over West Coast, signing with Case Western Reserve of Cleveland

https://napavalleyregister.com/sports/high-school/napa-valley-prep-football-justin-sienas-parlett-opts-for-north-coast-over-west-coast-signing/article_5acc95a4-d490-11ec-b45b-dbfd1e0d973a.html


Some of the quotes made me laugh, including:

Ryan Parlett said he was amazed how cheap it was to dine in the Cleveland area – always a plus for a college student's budget. Caden might want to order in, though, once winter hits.

"I'll need a new wardrobe, for sure. I only have California clothes."



Also he had some notable all star game work:

He was also selected to play in two All-Star football games — an O-D (Offense-Defense) All-American Bowl Game on Dec. 29 at Inglewood's SoFi Stadium, where the Los Angeles Rams won the Super Bowl six weeks later, and the Tri-County All-Star Game at Santa Rosa Junior College on Jan. 8.

Parlett was named Offensive Most Valuable Player of the O-D All-American Bowl, which invited players from across the country to play in two games at the Southern California showcase. He finished with eight carries for 124 yards and a touchdown and two catches for 10 yards on offense, and gave up no catches at the free safety position on defense, leading his team to a 38-0 rout.


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 23, 2022, 03:23:00 PM
Good to see that he's studying at CWRU's Weatherhead, my own undergrad alma mater!

Great stats, but he's a bit undersized.  It wouldn't shock me to see Coach Debs move him back to receiver.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 31, 2022, 08:05:15 AM
Hey Bob Gregg

You are usually on top of all things PAC. Do you know what the plans are for football scheduling now that with the return of Allegheny there are 11 football playing schools? I ask because CWRU's posted 2023 and 2024 schedules seem to have 10 conference games. https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on May 31, 2022, 12:23:02 PM
Anyone, get a chance to watch the BIG 33 game between MD and PA H.S. All-Stars? The MD squad feature players committed to both Salisbury and Mount Union, any word of the PA young men?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2022, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on May 31, 2022, 08:05:15 AM
Hey Bob Gregg

You are usually on top of all things PAC. Do you know what the plans are for football scheduling now that with the return of Allegheny there are 11 football playing schools? I ask because CWRU's posted 2023 and 2024 schedules seem to have 10 conference games. https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/future

We've heard from a couple of coaches that it will be a closed schedule/no non-conference games. Not sure how good an idea that is but hopefully they get up to 12 or down to 10 programs shortly.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 31, 2022, 03:36:33 PM
Thanks Pat

One way for PAC to get to 10 would be for CWRU to return to NCAC as a football affiliate. Carnegie Mellon could continue as its non-conference game as was the case with the Monon Bell game before DePauw joined the NCAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 10, 2022, 04:22:07 PM
Big D1QB transfer to CWRU from Kent St. where he was a walk-on with 4 years eligibility   https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2022-23/bios/kipp_ian_ddub

A two-time All-State quarterback for Mentor...Threw for 2,048 yards and 26 scores as a senior...Rushed for 384 yards and seven scores...Named Co-Division-I Offensive Player of the Year and a finalist for Mr. Football as a junior after throwing for 2,314 yards and 24 touchdowns while rushing for 883 yards and 16 scores

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 10, 2022, 09:44:34 PM
Oh boy!

What about Drew Saxton??

EDIT:  Here is a tweet https://twitter.com/mpodo/status/1535390801676615680?s=21&t=QXJ7hHGDeBgWO8ViNskWvw
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 10, 2022, 10:04:00 PM
News article:  https://www.news-herald.com/2022/06/10/qb-ian-kipp-of-mentor-set-to-transfer-and-play-at-case-western-reserve-this-fall/amp/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 11, 2022, 12:06:53 AM
Quote from: E.115 on June 10, 2022, 09:44:34 PM
Oh boy!

What about Drew Saxton??

EDIT:  Here is a tweet https://twitter.com/mpodo/status/1535390801676615680?s=21&t=QXJ7hHGDeBgWO8ViNskWvw
6 QBs on the posted roster.

Another All-Ohio FY "QB Aaron Filips will play football for Case Western Reserve University where he will study engineering/business. He was named 1st Team All-Suburban League (2x), Suburban League Offensive POY, 1st Team All-District and 2nd Team All-State."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 16, 2022, 11:09:23 AM
What a situation Coach Debs finds himself in at the QB position...An absolute rockstar running-throwing QB with the incoming freshman in Filips with 4 years eligibility...a DI transfer Kipp with 4 years eligilbilty...and, oh by the way, an incumbent 3-year starter with 9,000+ career passing yards in Saxton.

Filips high school highlights are impressive...man that kid can run https://www.hudl.com/video/3/11220990/6192e3a4ff01f00d8842f420

Also, Kipp had five DI offers out of high school (Bowling Green, Akron, UMass, Fordham, Toledo)... but chose to walk on to Kent State:  https://www.statechampsnetwork.com/state-champs-scout-team-ohio-football-recruiting-notebook-mentor-qb-ian-kipp-chooses-kent-state-ol-hunter-colao-chooses-ashland/

I suspect his Mentor high school teammates helped recruit him over.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 16, 2022, 05:52:07 PM
I've seen it reported that Kipp had a scholarship offer from Kent, but with the extra covid eligibility players who had been expected to leave returned.

Kipp was considered the third-best QB prospect in Ohio's 2021 class,

The New-Herald article mentioned that he was friends with Oddo (Shouldn't he get jersey #0?) and Toth.

BTW with Kipp there are four Mentor Cardinals on the roster (Not counting Debs). Also four Avon Lake Shoremen.  From across the border there are three for Mt Lebanon and three from Upper St Clair.

It says something very positive about the program that good word gets back to players' high schools.

In case you missed it, Nate Boone, the DL grad-transfer from Dartmouth (Ivy champs), goes 6'2 285

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on June 26, 2022, 10:57:04 AM
Wow.

I just looked up the Dartmouth guy.  It says he is one of TWELVE siblings!!!!

How often do you see that?

6'2" and 285 with Division I experience is nice.  i hope he can make a big contribution!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 12, 2022, 09:45:10 AM
I just read that CWRU has added former longtime Oberlin HC Jeff Ramsey as Special Teams Coordinator.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2022-23/releases/20220712e9v2xm
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 12, 2022, 10:19:32 AM
Ramsey replaces Ben Lolli who took DC job at Wooster and hired Spartan Assistant Zane Grove.

Alex Balogh also left for Amherst. He was getting his Masters at CWRU perhaps got a job in Mass.

So there should be more hires before practice begins August 11.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 18, 2022, 02:26:09 PM
Another former D3 HC returns to Spartan staff.  https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/coaches/Dolciato?view=bio
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 21, 2022, 04:01:21 PM
PAC Media Day August 3

https://pacathletics.org/news/2022/7/18/pac-announces-date-for-football-media-day.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 03, 2022, 05:41:42 PM
https://pacathletics.org/news/2022/8/1/headlines-pac-preseason-football-poll.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 03, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
2022 PAC Football Preseason Poll (Predicted order of finish)
School (first-place votes)                   Points   
1. Westminster College                   366 (19)   
2. Washington & Jefferson College   346 (7)   
3. Carnegie Mellon University           336 (10)   
4. Grove City College                       278   
5. Case Western Reserve University   268   
6. Saint Vincent College                   202   
7. Geneva College                           174   
8. Allegheny College                           173   
9. Waynesburg University                   110   
10. Bethany College                             83   
11. Thiel College                                 40
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jmcozenlaw on August 10, 2022, 11:44:14 AM
Quote from: E.115 on August 03, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
2022 PAC Football Preseason Poll (Predicted order of finish)
School (first-place votes)                   Points   
1. Westminster College                   366 (19)   
2. Washington & Jefferson College   346 (7)   
3. Carnegie Mellon University           336 (10)   
4. Grove City College                       278   
5. Case Western Reserve University   268   
6. Saint Vincent College                   202   
7. Geneva College                           174   
8. Allegheny College                           173   
9. Waynesburg University                   110   
10. Bethany College                             83   
11. Thiel College                                 40

Westminster is getting a DelVal team who saw 39 players walk on Senior Day last November, so they might just be able to pick off a team with tons of holes to fill and might not be in full gear until about game 3 or 4.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 12, 2022, 07:08:50 PM
Case Western Reserve has fully updated the roster section for 2022:

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2022-23/roster
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 15, 2022, 04:04:31 PM
Quote from: E.115 on August 12, 2022, 07:08:50 PM
Case Western Reserve has fully updated the roster section for 2022:

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2022-23/roster

Did you notice that Lucas DeCaro, CWRU's leading returning WR and who represented the Spartans at the PAC Media Day, is not on the roster?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 15, 2022, 04:22:24 PM
Wow.  Truly.

I sincerely hope that that was just an oversight/mistake.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 16, 2022, 04:12:19 PM
Shockingly, Lucas Decaro is also not mentioned in the pre-season preview which goes position by position.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2022-23/releases/20220816nppjeo

I wonder what has happened.  Was he injured?  Did he give up football? 

Inquiring minds want to know!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jmcozenlaw on August 16, 2022, 04:29:31 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on August 10, 2022, 11:44:14 AM
Quote from: E.115 on August 03, 2022, 09:37:14 PM
2022 PAC Football Preseason Poll (Predicted order of finish)
School (first-place votes)                   Points   
1. Westminster College                   366 (19)   
2. Washington & Jefferson College   346 (7)   
3. Carnegie Mellon University           336 (10)   
4. Grove City College                       278   
5. Case Western Reserve University   268   
6. Saint Vincent College                   202   
7. Geneva College                           174   
8. Allegheny College                           173   
9. Waynesburg University                   110   
10. Bethany College                             83   
11. Thiel College                                 40

Westminster is getting a DelVal team who saw 39 players walk on Senior Day last November, so they might just be able to pick off a team with tons of holes to fill and might not be in full gear until about game 3 or 4.

My bad, DelVal had 37 players walk on Senior Day, not 39. Westminster is still getting them at a great time!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 16, 2022, 10:42:40 PM
Gang,

I just heard from Coach Debs that the receiver that appeared at Media Day recently had season ending surgery.  How unfortunate.

I hope that he makes a fully recovery!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 17, 2022, 12:29:58 AM
^ WOW!  What sad news.  What a fluke.

Also just saw this article on the local Mentor boys: https://www.news-herald.com/2022/08/16/mentor-contingent-at-case-having-a-blast-especially-after-qb-ian-kipp-just-arrived

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: RowanPhan on August 17, 2022, 02:43:40 PM
Kudos to the Case Western Reserve University Sports Information Department for putting out an updated roster AND season preview so early in the year.

I'm dieing for some Rowan football updates
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 25, 2022, 09:24:56 PM
^ Agreed!  The Athletic Director and team do a heck of a job.

Case Western Reserve @ John Carroll scrimmage tomorrow (Aug 26).

https://www.news-herald.com/2022/08/25/john-carrolls-defense-has-potential-but-will-be-young-in-2022/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 26, 2022, 06:43:05 AM
Anxiously awaiting Podolski's report on the scrimmage.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 26, 2022, 01:14:01 PM
https://twitter.com/mpodo/status/1563209298674864128?s=21&t=xPxYzehVMvlC8N0DdDiyoQ
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 26, 2022, 09:32:49 PM
28-21 JCU won the first half.

Sounds like there's going to be Kipp and Saxton in the game at the same time type of stuff...especially with Kipp's running threat.

John Carroll-Case football scrimmage: Kenston's Tyler Mintz of JCU, Mentor's Ian Kipp of Case shine with big plays

https://www.news-herald.com/2022/08/26/john-carroll-case-football-scrimmage-kenstons-tyler-mintz-of-jcu-mentors-ian-kipp-of-case-shine-with-big-plays/

The first time the QB got into the game — as a backup to starter Drew Saxton — Kipp lined up as a tailback next to another backup QB Alex Fromberg. He took a handoff, ran laterally for about five yards and flicked a pass on the run to a wide-open receiver, who finished off a TD that went for more than 60 yards.

Debeljak said following the scrimmage Kipp's first TD wasn't a trick play and what everyone at Don Shula Stadium saw will be a part of Case's offense during the season.

"That's going to be a base play for our offense, and it's going to be difficult to defend," said Debeljak. "I'm glad (the play) is out there. I don't care.... That play is going to keep defenses respectful."


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on August 29, 2022, 02:50:05 PM
Hi Pollster's, just wanted to extend an invitation to join the ERFP for this upcoming season. We will continue to do R1/R2. Feel free to DM or respond here if interested. I'll reach out to last year participants to gauge any interest as well.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 31, 2022, 10:37:04 AM
There is a family connection in Saturday's CWRU-JHU game.

This article from West Lafayette IN HS from 2016. James is currently a physician in Atlanta and Daniel is JHU's DC.

James Wodicka was valedictorian in the class of 2007. He was an outstanding three sport athlete and
was chosen as a National Football Foundation Scholar Athlete. He went on to attend Case Western
University where he graduated cum laude with a degree in biomedical engineering. James played
defensive back for Case Western's football team and led his team in interceptions his senior year.
James was married in 2015 and is currently in the combined MD/PhD physician–scientist training
program at IU School of Medicine. He is also completing his PhD degree in Biomedical Engineering
at Purdue. In his free time he helps coach the defensive backs for the West Lafayette football team.

Daniel Wodicka was valedictorian in the class of 2010. He also was a standout three sport athlete and a National Football Foundation
Scholar Athlete as well as being chosen Indiana Mr. Football. Daniel led the West Lafayette High School football team to the 3A state
championship in 2009. He continued his academic and athletic career at Johns Hopkins University where he graduated with a degree in
biomedical engineering. Daniel was a standout football player at Johns Hopkins and set team records for single-season and career receptions and is one of the most decorated Blue Jay football players in school history. He is currently pursuing a career in coaching. He spent
two years at Johns Hopkins coaching wide receivers and was hired in April of 2016 as the running backs coach and video coordinator at
Northern Michigan University
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 01, 2022, 07:15:16 AM
Game notes — Johns Hopkins @ Case Western Reserve

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/fball/2022-23/files/fb_JHU_game_notes22.pdf
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 02, 2022, 03:29:53 PM
What happened to the PAC Roku app?  It was an easy way to view games.  I just looked and it is no longer available.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on September 02, 2022, 04:09:36 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on August 31, 2022, 10:37:04 AM
There is a family connection in Saturday's CWRU-JHU game.

This article from West Lafayette IN HS from 2016. James is currently a physician in Atlanta and Daniel is JHU's DC.

James Wodicka was valedictorian in the class of 2007. He was an outstanding three sport athlete and
was chosen as a National Football Foundation Scholar Athlete. He went on to attend Case Western
University where he graduated cum laude with a degree in biomedical engineering. James played
defensive back for Case Western's football team and led his team in interceptions his senior year.
James was married in 2015 and is currently in the combined MD/PhD physician–scientist training
program at IU School of Medicine. He is also completing his PhD degree in Biomedical Engineering
at Purdue. In his free time he helps coach the defensive backs for the West Lafayette football team.

Daniel Wodicka was valedictorian in the class of 2010. He also was a standout three sport athlete and a National Football Foundation
Scholar Athlete as well as being chosen Indiana Mr. Football. Daniel led the West Lafayette High School football team to the 3A state
championship in 2009. He continued his academic and athletic career at Johns Hopkins University where he graduated with a degree in
biomedical engineering. Daniel was a standout football player at Johns Hopkins and set team records for single-season and career receptions and is one of the most decorated Blue Jay football players in school history. He is currently pursuing a career in coaching. He spent
two years at Johns Hopkins coaching wide receivers and was hired in April of 2016 as the running backs coach and video coordinator at
Northern Michigan University

Ice Bear says this is some incredible ****. Just another reason Ice loves D3 football so much. Amazing student/athletes (something Ice never was) that make such a positive impact on the world. Ice says...

OUTSTANDING
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2022, 11:13:06 PM
Quote from: mikefln on September 02, 2022, 03:29:53 PM
What happened to the PAC Roku app?  It was an easy way to view games.  I just looked and it is no longer available.

https://pacathletics.org/news/2022/8/30/general-pac-partners-with-hudl-to-produce-new-streaming-platform.aspx

https://www.pacdigitalnetwork.com/


Search for PAC Digital network on Roku
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 03, 2022, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 02, 2022, 11:13:06 PM
Quote from: mikefln on September 02, 2022, 03:29:53 PM
What happened to the PAC Roku app?  It was an easy way to view games.  I just looked and it is no longer available.

https://pacathletics.org/news/2022/8/30/general-pac-partners-with-hudl-to-produce-new-streaming-platform.aspx

https://www.pacdigitalnetwork.com/


Search for PAC Digital network on Roku

Found it.  Thank you.

Good luck to all teams this year.  Hope all teams and players a successful and .ore importantly healthy season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 03, 2022, 07:18:15 PM
Watched the W&J - JCU game on the new "PAC Network." Nice production. I notice CMU and CWRU are not participating. Understand that they are both football only. Not an issue for the CMU game this year since it is at W&J, but not clear how to access the game @ CWRU. Since this board is "dominated" by CWRU people, perhaps you can assure us (me) that we will be able to see our games hosted at CWRU, and CMU.

Also noticed that neither Grove City  or Thiel are participating.  I can understand Thiel, but Grove City?

Note on W&J vs JCU - sacks and interceptions - great W&J defense and enough of an offense.  PAC should be competitive this year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 04, 2022, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on September 03, 2022, 07:18:15 PM
Watched the W&J - JCU game on the new "PAC Network." Nice production. I notice CMU and CWRU are not participating. Understand that they are both football only. Not an issue for the CMU game this year since it is at W&J, but not clear how to access the game @ CWRU. Since this board is "dominated" by CWRU people, perhaps you can assure us (me) that we will be able to see our games hosted at CWRU, and CMU.

Also noticed that neither Grove City  or Thiel are participating.  I can understand Thiel, but Grove City?

Note on W&J vs JCU - sacks and interceptions - great W&J defense and enough of an offense.  PAC should be competitive this year.

You can always find links to those games on the schools' website or on D3football.com.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 06, 2022, 09:31:57 AM
So much for four quarterbacks. Fromberg to Kipp exchanges were awkward to say the least. I applaud the coaches' loyalty to Saxton, but though it was against Hopkin's reserves, Kipp seemed to me more confident.

The shuffling back and forth doesn't make a whole lot of sense in terms of getting a rhythm. There's probably zero chance of this happening. But since Waynesburg doesn't count as a conference game why not give each QB one quarter to lead the team?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 06, 2022, 11:49:32 PM
Agreed all the top highlights included Kipp at QB.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1-8-HJ7lBQk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X2diApedNM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lEY4UlpqBog

Kipp looks like the best bet... but again how do you do that to Saxton after three very good seasons?

Running four QBs is certainly bizarre.  Unless this is essentially the tryout period?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 07, 2022, 08:24:34 AM
In 2014, the Spartans last losing season, Debs stayed with senior Billy Beecher, over freshman Rob Cuda. In Cuda's three seasons as starter, Spartans were 7-3, 9-1, and 11-1. Of course Beecher was no Drew Saxton

I'm not suggesting throwing Saxton to the curb, he should play enough to get his records. He now only needs 599 passing yards and 4 TD passes to match all-time CWRU records. But let each QB at least stay in to complete a series, rather than changing them out constantly.



Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 10, 2022, 07:11:35 AM
Interesting factoid from yesterday's Quick Hits. "Carnegie Mellon has won its last five games against ranked opponents."  Tartans face #22 RPI at 1ET today.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 10, 2022, 03:51:12 PM
Good 2 TD "bounce back" win for CWRU.

Santon was MUCH better this game.

JHU was tough, but hopefully this is the shape of things to come.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 10, 2022, 04:20:12 PM
Agreed. CWRU offense was way for consistent today.  Saxton got his mojo back.  Good game by him.  Interesting to see heavy Kipp on the last drive used almost as the closer (although Saxton ultimately punched it in at the end for the game-sealing TD).

Congrats to CMU knocking off #22 RPI 10-7.  Six game win streak against ranked opponents...Not too shabby of a stat!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 17, 2022, 09:34:41 PM
Was this the same defense that gave up 31 to Waynesburg?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 17, 2022, 09:39:31 PM
Nice win over Top 25 W&J!

We may be more of a factor in PAC play than I had thought!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 18, 2022, 07:49:24 AM
Great touchdown highlight:

https://youtu.be/OUM7fRzeTz0

And another suburb Saxton play:

https://youtu.be/QdMi29WNFQI

Don't know if it was more scouting or coaching... CWRU defense played bend not break. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 18, 2022, 09:54:23 AM
It's a little hard to see in this highlight, but Coyne tips the ball to himself. In the long shot, it almost looks like the ball went of the defender's helmet, but there was a close up replay that showed it was Coyne's hand that tipped the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbjqCc5UlFA
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 18, 2022, 10:28:18 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 18, 2022, 07:49:24 AM

Don't know if it was more scouting or coaching... CWRU defense played bend not break.

"In his season debut, junior linebacker Ryan Cabrera led the team with seven tackles, including two for loss and a sack." He missed the first two games with injury. His second play in the game he got a sack, which pushed the Prez (or the "J" as Bob Gregg would say. He hasn't posted in nearly a year is he okay? Is he still calling games for W&J?) out of field goal range and they threw an incomplete pass on 4th and 20.

W&J was 0 for 14 on 3rd down!

Maybe coaches had film of W&J's last game in 2021. "The SUNY Brockport limited W&J to 258 yards of total offense and nine first downs in a 20-7 victory over in the 2021 ECAC Clayton Chapman Bowl, which was held Saturday afternoon at Bob Boozer Field in New York."
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 18, 2022, 10:37:35 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on September 17, 2022, 09:39:31 PM
Nice win over Top 25 W&J!

We may be more of a factor in PAC play than I had thought!

The next two weeks Westminster plays CMU and then W&J. Spartans end the regular season with Westminster and CMU. W&J plays Westminster and CMU in mid-October -- interesting scheduling.

Will Grove City be a factor? They lost to CMU 40-33.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2022, 11:57:46 AM
I'm here. I'm here.

I'll have to watch film to try to figure out how much of W&J's performance with the ball was CWRU's defense and how much was another struggling O-line performance for W&J.
And, having struggled all game, they had multiple chances at touchdowns late and failed, badly.

After tying the game following Dahlem's punt muff, W&J got the ball back and drove from its own 13 to a 1st & goal at CWRU 2. BY THE WAY, big ups to either Nate Cikalo (listed on play-by-play) or Michael Stuewe (who I thought made the play) keeping Huss from going to the endzone on the long run. From there, the W&J short-yardage offense flopped, Huss getting -1, then +1, then O-line getting overwhelmed for a sack & W&J settles for Field Goal to take 10-7 lead. So, on this possession, W&J ran 3 "and goal" plays and got -8 yards.

Then, for the second time in the game and probably the 10th time in three weeks, W&J got beat deep with a pass play, Dahlem getting redemption. Presidents defense did not make the tackle inside the 10 and Dahlem scored to put CWRU up by 4 with 4:21 to play.

Presidents get the ball and move right up the field, picking up 4 first downs to set up, 1st & goal at the CWRU 8.
Sack on what looked like a disjointed play.
Bad snap of some kind and another sack.
Incomplete pass that carried receiver out of bounds.
Incomplete pass that went left with receiver going right.

So, on these 4 "and goal" plays, the Presidents got -6 yards and two incompete passes.

All told, 7 "and goal" snaps, -14 yards, 3 points.  W&J HAS to be better than that. Period.

Three first-half first downs.  No excuse for that.
No Ray Holmes at the goal line.  I don't understand that. Holmes ran for 80 yards a week ago, gets TWO carries last night.
No time out used when, clearly, W&J was out-of-sorts on final drive (especially after the broken play sack). I don't understand that.

W&J's defense held Case-Western Reserve to 14 points and deserved to win the game.  The offense failed and must shoulder the complete responsibility for this loss.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 18, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
It was definitely Cikalo. I saw the replay. Stuewe was on the field only to hold for PKs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2022, 05:02:16 PM
My booth was about 70 yards away from where it happened with a steel support between me and there.
I thought it was 18 but I'll go with 16.  He made a heck of a play, possibly THE defensive play of the game allowing CWRU to win.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 18, 2022, 05:22:54 PM
6s and 8s look a lot alike in the current font. There were new jerseys at Waynesburg with a clearer font. I don't know if we will see new home jerseys at homecoming vs St Vincent.

Can you see a video monitor in your booth?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2022, 08:07:16 PM
No video monitor in my booth, and no room to set up computer.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 18, 2022, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2022, 08:07:16 PM
No video monitor in my booth, and no room to set up computer.

I hoped that CWRU game management was more welcoming.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 19, 2022, 09:50:25 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 18, 2022, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 18, 2022, 08:07:16 PM
No video monitor in my booth, and no room to set up computer.

I hoped that CWRU game management was more welcoming.

Jon, Eddie and the crew at CWRU were great.  It's just with the way the booth is set up, I can't get computer on counter and there's no video monitor.
All good.

One side note, at least I got to sit down. In my home press box, I have to stand to call the games or not see the left end of the field and scoreboard....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 23, 2022, 08:53:41 AM
Aerial photo from the CWRU - W&J game this past Friday.  Disanto Field photographs well at dusk.  Cleveland, Ohio.  Sept 17, 2022.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiSanto_Field#/media/File:Cwru_giammo-069.jpg

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Cwru_giammo-069.jpg/1280px-Cwru_giammo-069.jpg)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cwru_giammo-109.jpg

The horizon on this one is Lake Erie:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Cwru_giammo-109.jpg/978px-Cwru_giammo-109.jpg)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 23, 2022, 11:19:47 AM
In the shot from the W&J/CWRU game, that's John Sacco's right side in the first pressbox window.  If you zoom in, you can see my right arm a little further over in the front window.

As you can see, my seat is approximately the 28 yard line on the scoreboard end.  The play where I mistakenly identified the never-give-up tackler happened at the other end of the field on the W&J sideline.  And the CWRU uniform color scheme and number font didn't help, nor did my now 62 1/2 year old eyes...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on September 24, 2022, 10:34:57 PM
OK, dominating win at Geneva.  Congrats to Saxton.  It appears that he will not merely break, but SHATTER Whalen's school records.

Let's continue with steady improvement from week to week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on September 30, 2022, 12:48:58 PM
Week 5 already.....3 conference unbeatens, 3 conference winless, 5 conference 1-1 teams...

Allegheny (1-1) at Wash/Jeff (1-1)
Case-Western (2-0) at Grove City (1-1)
Thiel (0-1) at Bethany (0-1)
Westminster (1-0) at Carnegie-Mellon (2-0)

Geneva, Saint Vincent and Waynesburg are all on recess this weekend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on September 30, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 30, 2022, 12:48:58 PM
Week 5 already.....3 conference unbeatens, 3 conference winless, 5 conference 1-1 teams...

Allegheny (1-1) at Wash/Jeff (1-1)
Case-Western (2-0) at Grove City (1-1)
Thiel (0-1) at Bethany (0-1)
Westminster (1-0) at Carnegie-Mellon (2-0)

Geneva, Saint Vincent and Waynesburg are all on recess this weekend.

Ice is looking forward to the seeing the Westminster/CM result.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 01, 2022, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: Ice Bear on September 30, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on September 30, 2022, 12:48:58 PM
Week 5 already.....3 conference unbeatens, 3 conference winless, 5 conference 1-1 teams...

Allegheny (1-1) at Wash/Jeff (1-1)
Case-Western (2-0) at Grove City (1-1)
Thiel (0-1) at Bethany (0-1)
Westminster (1-0) at Carnegie-Mellon (2-0)

Geneva, Saint Vincent and Waynesburg are all on recess this weekend.

Ice is looking forward to the seeing the Westminster/CM result.

3 interesting games and 1 shrug.

CMU has persevered the last two weeks without its All-American RB. He's not listed in their two-deep this week either. They beat Grove City by scoring after three pics. They were massively outgained by the Wolverines though.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 01, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
Congrats to Grove City on the W.  They played smart football the entire game.  They are now in the thick of a PAC championship run.  "Brick by brick" holds true.

Hopefully CWRU can regroup and finish the year strong with all the talent they have.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 01, 2022, 05:48:07 PM
Surprised to see the CWRU Grove City result. Read the recap on the CWRU site. I know how W&J did, but not Westminster or CMU. Looks like a very competitive  year in the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 01, 2022, 05:53:57 PM
I see they play this evening
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 01, 2022, 08:15:59 PM
CMU leads 7-0 at halftime...with 8 total yards of offense.  That's...well, it's something, anyway.

Pick six late in the first quarter.  Tartan defense standing tall but not much offense going for either side, heavy rain.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 01, 2022, 08:24:23 PM
Good to see you back, ExTartan. Is this just a cameo visit? We need more than  W&J  and CWRU voices in here.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on October 01, 2022, 08:54:20 PM
Congrats to Thiel! Big win for the Tomcats today to snap the streak, program changing directions.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 01, 2022, 10:17:48 PM
CMU manages just 8 first downs and wins the game, 10-0.
Tartans alone atop the PAC standings.

W&J heading to New Wilmington next Saturday in an elimination game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 02, 2022, 01:14:13 PM
The PAC AQ is going to go to one of these five (no big surprise):
Carnegie-Mellon 3-0
Grove City 2-1
Wash-Jeff 2-1
CaseWestern 2-1
Westminster 1-1

Here are head-to-head results so far:
Carnegie-Mellon 40, Grove City 33
Carnegie-Mellon 10, Westminster 0
Grove City 14, Case-Western 13
Case-Western 14, Wash-Jeff 10

Here's the remaining schedule of head-to-head matchups:
Oct. 8  Wash-Jeff at Westminster
Oct. 15 Carnegie-Mellon at Wash-Jeff
Oct. 22 Westminster at Grove City
Oct. 29 none
Nov. 5 Grove City at Wash-Jeff, Case-Western at Westminster
Nov. 12 Carnegie-Mellon at Case-Western

IF CMU wins out, the AQ goes to the Tartans.
IF Wash-Jeff wins out, the Presidents need somebody to beat CWRU.
IF Grove City wins out, the Wolverines need somebody to beat CMU.
IF Westminster wins out, the Titans need somebody to beat CMU
IF Case-Western wins out, the Spartans need somebody to beat Grove City.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jmcozenlaw on October 02, 2022, 06:20:19 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 02, 2022, 01:14:13 PM
The PAC AQ is going to go to one of these five (no big surprise):
Carnegie-Mellon 3-0
Grove City 2-1
Wash-Jeff 2-1
CaseWestern 2-1
Westminster 1-1

Here are head-to-head results so far:
Carnegie-Mellon 40, Grove City 33
Carnegie-Mellon 10, Westminster 0
Grove City 14, Case-Western 13
Case-Western 14, Wash-Jeff 10

Here's the remaining schedule of head-to-head matchups:
Oct. 8  Wash-Jeff at Westminster
Oct. 15 Carnegie-Mellon at Wash-Jeff
Oct. 22 Westminster at Grove City
Oct. 29 none
Nov. 5 Grove City at Wash-Jeff
Nov. 12 Carnegie-Mellon at Case-Western

IF CMU wins out, the AQ goes to the Tartans.
IF Wash-Jeff wins out, the Presidents need somebody to beat CWRU.
IF Grove City wins out, the Wolverines need somebody to beat CMU.
IF Westminster wins out, the Titans need somebody to beat CMU
IF Case-Western wins out, the Spartans need somebody to beat Grove City.

I'm feeling better about DelVal's 22-8 opening game win against a very veteran Westminster squad........given the 10-0 nailbiter against the probable winner of the PAC, Canrnegie Mellon (we just need to make sure Carnegie Mellon's professors stay in their own lane and not root for a painful death of a Queen). Karma is not fun.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 04, 2022, 01:53:10 PM
Meaningless trivia from Saturday's game. The top four tacklers for Spartans last names all start with T -- Torres, Troch, Toth, and Tong.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on October 04, 2022, 02:26:39 PM
You nailed it. It was meaningless!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 08, 2022, 04:51:35 PM
Spartans beat St. Vincent.

Please, somebody beat Grove City!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 08, 2022, 05:42:52 PM
The PAC AQ is going to go to one of these five four (no big surprise):
Carnegie-Mellon 4-0
Grove City 3-1
Wash-Jeff 3-1
CaseWestern 3-1
Westminster 1-2

Here are head-to-head results so far:
Carnegie-Mellon 40, Grove City 33
Carnegie-Mellon 10, Westminster 0
Grove City 14, Case-Western 13
Case-Western 14, Wash-Jeff 10
Wash-Jeff 17, Westminster 14

Here's the remaining schedule of head-to-head matchups:
Oct. 15 Carnegie-Mellon at Wash-Jeff
Oct. 22 Westminster at Grove City
Oct. 29 none
Nov. 5 Grove City at Wash-Jeff, Case-Western at Westminster
Nov. 12 Carnegie-Mellon at Case-Western

IF CMU wins out, the AQ goes to the Tartans.
IF Wash-Jeff wins out, the Presidents need somebody to beat CWRU.
IF Grove City wins out, the Wolverines need somebody to beat CMU.
IF Case-Western wins out, the Spartans need somebody to beat Grove City.
IF Westminster wins out, the Titans need somebody to beat CMU plus a lot of other help.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 12, 2022, 09:49:35 PM
Just got this word:

Cole Konieczka's career has concluded.

"Cole broke his ankle, and his career is over," lamented Titans' taskmaster Scott Benzel, who added, "My heart breaks for him."

Konieczka (Coraopolis, Pa./Moon Area High) sustained the injury last week against Washington & Jefferson. Scrambling for a first down, he slid awkwardly and did not return. Initially it was believed he had sustained a high-ankle sprain.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 16, 2022, 11:27:02 AM
I'm off on my Bye week. I'll update this sometime on Sunday when I get the chance.
I'm voting for complete and total chaos the rest of the way (W&J's only real hope now).


The PAC AQ is going to go to one of these five four three (no big surprise):

CMU      5-0
Grove   4-1 (loss to CMU)
CWRU   3-1 (loss to Grove)

W&J      3-2 (loss to CWRU, CMU)
West      2-2 (loss to CMU)


Here are head-to-head results so far:

Carnegie-Mellon 40, Grove City 33
Carnegie-Mellon 10, Westminster 0
Carnegie-Mellon 12, Wash-Jeff 7
Case-Western 14, Wash-Jeff 10
Wash-Jeff 17, Westminster 14
Grove City 14, Case-Western 13


Here's the remaining schedule of head-to-head matchups:

Oct. 22 West at Grove (CMU vs. Gen, CWRU vs. Beth)
Oct. 29 none (CMU vs. StVinc, W&J at Thiel, CWRU @ All, West @ Wayne)
Nov. 5 Grove at Wash-Jeff, CWRU at West
Nov. 12 CMU at CWRU (Grove vs. Thiel, W&J @ Way, West @ Gen)


IF CMU wins out, the AQ goes to the Tartans.
IF Grove City wins out, the Wolverines need somebody to beat CMU.
IF Case-Western wins out, the Spartans need somebody to beat Grove City.
IF Wash-Jeff wins out, the Presidents need somebody to beat CWRU & CMU.
IF Westminster wins out, the Titans need somebody to beat CMU & W&J.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 19, 2022, 11:27:51 AM
Haven't been very active posting this year, but have been watching (saw CMU live once - Grove City game - and watched stream of Westminster and W&J games).  Tartans are one of those win-ugly, bend-don't-break teams.  Defense is very sound and has really carried the team (27 sacks, only allowing 70 ypg rushing and 12.9 ppg).  Offense has been hurting for a few weeks since losing Vasiliadis to injury, but Bouma's emergence the last 2 weeks gives me some hope they can re-establish a little more balance on that side of the ball.  Kind of a wild stat: CMU is 7-0 despite being outgained by 57 yards per game.

Odd to say this of a 7-0 team, but they really can't take any game for granted right now.  The offense just doesn't score enough points consistently to assume they can show up and win every week.  The defense is good enough to keep them in it against anybody but the very very best in the Division; the problem is, the offense is (right now) feeble enough that they won't put teams away easily.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 19, 2022, 06:58:54 PM
Welcome back Andrew

Vasiliadis returned last Saturday, but only carried six times for a net of 4 yards. He's listed backup in the two-deep for this week's game.

What I've observed this year is that the Tartan's offense is a big play offense. If they don't get at least one big play in a drive, it stalls.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 PM
I've seen, in person or on video, each of the Big 5.
Nobody has an offense that can compete even in the first round at the national level.

And, if the PAC champion/AQ doesn't get a real favorable match-up, will likely get blown out.
The Big 5's defensive numbers are against really lacking offenses for the most part.

Just my view from the 34 yard line.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 22, 2022, 05:43:49 PM
With Grove City's loss, the Spartans are still in the race.

Will need to run the table.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 23, 2022, 11:28:03 AM
The PAC AQ is going to go to one of these five four three two (no big surprise):

CMU      6-0
CWRU   4-1 (loss to Grove)

Grove   4-2 (loss to CMU, West)
W&J      3-2 (loss to CWRU, CMU)
West      3-2 (loss to CMU, W&J)

Here are Big 5 head-to-head results so far:
Carnegie-Mellon 40, Grove City 33
Carnegie-Mellon 10, Westminster 0
Carnegie-Mellon 12, Wash-Jeff 7
Case-Western 14, Wash-Jeff 10
Wash-Jeff 17, Westminster 14
Grove City 14, Case-Western 13
Westminster 24, Grove City 17


Here's the remaining schedule of head-to-head matchups (other games involving Big 5):
Oct. 29 none (CMU vs. StVinc, W&J at Thiel, CWRU @ All, West @ Wayne)
Nov. 5 Grove at Wash-Jeff, CWRU at West
Nov. 12 CMU at CWRU (Grove vs. Thiel, W&J @ Way, West @ Gen)


IF CMU wins out, the AQ goes to the Tartans.
IF Case-Western wins out, the AQ goes to the Spartans.

Grove City, W&J and Westminster all need CMU to lose twice and CWRU to lose once.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 23, 2022, 11:58:05 AM
Average margin of victory 5.3  Isn't that pretty much the definition of parity?

Carnegie-Mellon 40, Grove City 33
Carnegie-Mellon 10, Westminster 0
Carnegie-Mellon 12, Wash-Jeff 7
Case-Western 14, Wash-Jeff 10
Wash-Jeff 17, Westminster 14
Grove City 14, Case-Western 13
Westminster 24, Grove City 17
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 23, 2022, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 22, 2022, 05:43:49 PM
With Grove City's loss, the Spartans are still in the race.

Will need to run the table.

Westminster is on that table. CMU has an open date before the Academic Bowl. But for a miracle penalty on a kneel down and punt block TD in 2017, leading to a Spartan OT win, CMU would have won the last 6 meetings. Though 2018 was an OT CMU win.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 26, 2022, 10:37:49 AM
A bit of clarity in the Spartans QB quadrille. Owing to an injury to Wojkowski, Fromberg lined up a lot at WR Saturday and caught 3 passes. This week he's listed at WR on the depth chart.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2022, 08:14:50 PM
Unless Westminster knocks off Case-Western Reserve next weekend, the winner of the Nov. 12 Academic Bowl takes the PAC AQ.

IF the Titans win next week, the would clinch the PAC title for Carnegie-Mellon.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on November 01, 2022, 11:10:40 PM
Being a CWRU alum and fan, I hope that CWRU wins this Saturday.

That would make this year's "Academic Bowl" matchup one of the most intriguing, relevant, and exciting on record!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2022, 09:06:09 AM
Case Western Reserve @ Westminster preview: 


https://www.sharonherald.com/sports/westminster-welcomes-spartans-in-senior-day-matinee-on-saturday/article_b7b2ac16-5be2-11ed-b285-236f433e1ab7.html
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 05, 2022, 02:35:28 PM
At the half, CWRU has given up 2 first downs and 57 total yards, but is down 14-3.  What an ugly football game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 05, 2022, 03:52:28 PM
18 first downs for CWRU
4 first downs for WC

What a painful loss...

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 07, 2022, 01:23:13 PM
Glad CMU has clinched, of course, but still really want the W in the Academic Bowl.  Both for the satisfaction of beating the rival, and the reality that 10-0 has a chance at a home playoff game and a more favorable/winnable matchup whereas a loss means a road trip.

CMU's profile is OK, not bad, but not great.  They had two "decent" non-league wins; it's a shame that RPI lost two other nail-biters so they're merely a nice non-conference win and not really a threat to crack regional rankings.  W&J's non-league win over John Carroll is another nice feather in the cap for the PAC, and by proxy helps the eventual playoff representative a little bit via SOS.  One of those frustrating sorta-ironies is that the league having five "pretty good" teams that were all just good enough to beat/play close with each other is that the best the runner-up can finish will be 8-2, which makes it very hard for anyone else to get regionally ranked.  Maybe W&J will sneak into the final RR's - a strong 8-2 record with a good OOC win vs JCU might squeak in at the bottom.

Anyways, it's been a fun season to follow with multiple contenders, looking forward to Academic Bowl & hoping Tartans rep the league well in the playoffs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on November 09, 2022, 09:56:48 PM
From the national media...NCAA.com

Inside Carnegie Mellon's run to the longest win streak in NCAA football

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2022-11-09/inside-carnegie-mellons-run-longest-win-streak-ncaa-football
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 11, 2022, 11:24:23 AM
It's a cool rainy morning in Maryville, TN so I spent some quality time with our local newspaper. In the sports section there was an AP article that focused on how inflation (particularly food and travel)was impacting college athletic budgets, particularly at the small college level. I was curious how Allegheny's move from the NCAC to the PAC impacted their travel. I decided to take a look using one of their last NCAC schedules and their first PAC schedule. These are one way mileages.

Football - NCAC

Denison Granville OH.              217miles
Wabash Crawfordsville, IN.       453miles
Hiram, OH.                               66 miles
Wooster, OH.                          146 miles
DePauw Greencastlr, IN.          456 miles

Total.                                    1,333 miles

A couple of these would require an overnight stay


Football PAC

Thiel Greenville, PA.                    26 Miles
Westminster, New Wilmington, PA 46 miles
W&J Washington, PA.                 115 miles
Geneva, Beaver Falls.                   73 miles
Bethany, WV.                              134 miles

Total:                                       394 miles

Leave after breakfast, home for dinner!

Apply this for all the sports they play and you can see one obvious benefit to their changing conferences.

Imagine what travel budgets are like in the UAA, although they have financial resources that far exceed the typical DIII school.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 11, 2022, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 11, 2022, 11:24:23 AM
It's a cool rainy morning in Maryville, TN so I spent some quality time with our local newspaper. In the sports section there was an AP article that focused on how inflation (particularly food and travel)was impacting college athletic budgets, particularly at the small college level. I was curious how Allegheny's move from the NCAC to the PAC impacted their travel. I decided to take a look using one of their last NCAC schedules and their first PAC schedule. These are one way mileages.

Football - NCAC

Denison Granville OH.              217miles
Wabash Crawfordsville, IN.       453miles
Hiram, OH.                               66 miles
Wooster, OH.                          146 miles
DePauw Greencastlr, IN.          456 miles

Total.                                    1,333 miles

A couple of these would require an overnight stay


Football PAC

Thiel Greenville, PA.                    26 Miles
Westminster, New Wilmington, PA 46 miles
W&J Washington, PA.                 115 miles
Geneva, Beaver Falls.                   73 miles
Bethany, WV.                              134 miles

Total:                                       394 miles

Leave after breakfast, home for dinner!

Apply this for all the sports they play and you can see one obvious benefit to their changing conferences.

Imagine what travel budgets are like in the UAA, although they have financial resources that far exceed the typical DIII school.

Yeah, it was a bit funny...when I was at CMU (still officially in the UAA for football, but the UAA only had four football-playing members at the time) we had a schedule that was populated with many PAC opponents and I remember sort of idly wondering sometmes why we weren't just in the PAC (though of course I did understand the broader institutional considerations).  From 2004-2007 we played, by my count, 11 total games against PAC opponents (Grove City and Bethany every year plus a two-year series with Thiel and a stray one-year game against Westminster; we also played Allegheny).  We also had preseason scrimmages against Westminster and Waynesburg a few times.  Definite geographic advantages...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 11, 2022, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on October 23, 2022, 11:58:05 AM
Average margin of victory 5.3  Isn't that pretty much the definition of parity?

Carnegie-Mellon 40, Grove City 33
Carnegie-Mellon 10, Westminster 0
Carnegie-Mellon 12, Wash-Jeff 7
Case-Western 14, Wash-Jeff 10
Wash-Jeff 17, Westminster 14
Grove City 14, Case-Western 13
Westminster 24, Grove City 17

Agree, lots of parity within this group.  Definitely still nervous about the Academic Bowl even with CMU having the conference locked up - a win puts a nice bow on the 10-0 season and probably means a shot at a home game and much more likely to get a winnable first-round matchup than a loss.

CMU has played spoiler for Case a few times in recent years when CWRU came into the game with a little better record (plus the insane 2017 game, when Case came in 9-0 and won one of the wildest finishes you'll ever see) so I am definitely thinking Case wants to return that favor...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 14, 2022, 12:24:51 PM
Four PAC teams in post-season.

CMU of course in NCAA

ECAC:

W&J
Grove City
Westminster
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 15, 2022, 05:14:01 PM
Here's hoping they all represent the league well. The OOC results for the league's top teams this year are a bit of a mixed bag but overall good - W&J had a quality win against John Carroll, CMU a pair of decent wins against Whitworth and RPI, Westminster played a tough ballgame against Delaware Valley. The big downer was Case getting blown out by Johns Hopkins. So let's show out well in the postseason and show that the PAC is trending upwards into the top 10 or so conferences...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CardinalAlum on November 22, 2022, 11:01:19 PM
Any CMU fans making the trip to Naperville? Weather looks good for a mid November Chicago area day. Way better than last week!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on November 25, 2022, 10:14:26 PM
Grove City players are heroes off the field.

https://www.facebook.com/BeTheMatch/photos/a.393544904636/10160359613739637/
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 25, 2022, 10:52:14 PM
Quote from: CardinalAlum on November 22, 2022, 11:01:19 PM
Any CMU fans making the trip to Naperville? Weather looks good for a mid November Chicago area day. Way better than last week!

Probably will be a few (players families, I imagine).  Unfortunately I won't be one of them.  I'll be watching the stream tomorrow!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Next Man Up on November 26, 2022, 04:54:37 PM
Congrats to Carnegie-Mellon on a great season. The Tartans displayed the most formidable obstacle we at North Central have faced this season, and held us at bay for about 3/4s of the game.

In addition to the team, the C-M fans exhibited an impressive presence, as it looked like almost the entire visiting stands were filled.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on November 26, 2022, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: Next Man Up on November 26, 2022, 04:54:37 PM
Congrats to Carnegie-Mellon on a great season. The Tartans displayed the most formidable obstacle we at North Central have faced this season, and held us at bay for about 3/4s of the game.

In addition to the team, the C-M fans exhibited an impressive presence, as it looked like almost the entire visiting stands were filled.

As someone who follows the PAC pretty closely I was happy to see how well the Tartans played. watching CMU's defense this year I knew it would be a closer game than many expected but being in a 1 score game of the Cardinals in the 4th quarter was very impressive.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 23, 2022, 03:14:40 PM
Early Christmas for the Spartan another All-Ohio QB commits joining Kipp and Filips.
https://twitter.com/DetillioSam

OL who reportedly had an offer from D2 Clarion
https://twitter.com/NickPetrucci76/with_replies

C https://twitter.com/gabeprimrose

RB/LB 2nd Team NE Lakes District RB but highlights are all LB
https://twitter.com/OwenBisker

LB 3rd Team All-Ohio
https://twitter.com/RickertJack
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on February 05, 2023, 01:52:14 PM
Recent interview with CWRU Coach Debs

https://youtu.be/ycIF829gang
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 05, 2023, 09:19:11 PM
Quote from: E.115 on February 05, 2023, 01:52:14 PM
Recent interview with CWRU Coach Debs

https://youtu.be/ycIF829gang

Debs says All PAC HM S DJ Wolf will return for covid year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: tony/troy on March 16, 2023, 07:27:53 PM
Common sense seems to dictate that the PAC is not going to stick with the 11 team conference only schedule format for very long.

One of the programs is openly advertising for week one and two games in 2025. Interesting!!!

Anyone know what is going on??? Picking up one or more new members and going to a divisional format??? Not playing all other members every year??? Present members leaving the PAC???
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on March 17, 2023, 09:20:28 AM
Nice Catch

School is Westminster. If they or any other school is leaving, I don't know where they would logically go.

I have thought that CWRU might return to NCAC as a football affiliate, keeping CMU as its rivalry game, but I have no knowledge if that is being considered. NCAC did accommodate Wabash-DePauw Monon Bell Game before DePauw joined NCAC.

Not playing a full round-robin is less than ideal. In 2017 co-champs CWRU and W&J didn't play one another. In 2016 Thomas More (8-0) won the title without playing runner-up CWRU (7-1). There was a year in NCAC when Kenyon nearly won the title without playing either of the two other contenders.

Only playing conference games limits SoS, which could effect being chosen to host a playoff game.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on March 17, 2023, 08:41:21 PM
I too have thought CWRU might go to NCAC  keeping CMU as a 10th game, but I don't know what this gets them other than perhaps  saving some travel.  I have no real sense about which conference (NCAC or PAC) is stronger, although I 'm sure CWRU moving would benefit the NCAC at the expense of the PAC. I really can't see anyone else having a logical reason for leaving.  I have no clue what Westminster is up to unless they know something about where the PAC is going that no one else is aware of (unlikely).  I've always been a little concerned that one of the current schools in the conference may face some financial difficulties that could effect their athletic programs, although most PAC schools have a high percentage of their students (40% +) playing varsity sports, which makes them dependent on sports producing students.  Certainly not the case for CMU or CWRU.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 19, 2023, 09:49:43 AM
I've been told that this is from a proposed new schedule but as of the time they filed the open date, it had not been fully approved as of yet.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on April 30, 2023, 06:52:56 PM
Via Twitter CWRU has welcomed 21 "Official" first years for the fall. I presume official means money has been deposited.

Of the 21 4 played qb there's a 5th qb commit who apparently hasn't put down a deposit yet.

UPDATE
Sheesh. Today another QB though listed a Ath. Potentially 5 2022 roster qbs could return (4 if Fromberg goes to WR where he played a lot in 2022).

Reported 2023 FYs

Sam DeTillio 5'11 185 Avon Lake OH 1st Team All-Ohio
Tyler Fikis     6' 180  Ft Mill SC 4.56/40 WR or RB?
Andrew Lowe  6'3 205 Macomb MI  PWO Offer from FCS LIU
AJ Rivera   6'2 195 Albuquerque NM
Harrison Steeves-Little 6'1 218 Anchorage AK  ATH
Max Wickland  6'4 182 Gibsonia PA ATH  WR?

Update Lowe now "Official"

And "Officially" report 4 FYs from WPa Mt Lebanon joining 3 FYs from last season. Talk about a pipeline!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 01, 2023, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on March 17, 2023, 08:41:21 PM
I too have thought CWRU might go to NCAC  keeping CMU as a 10th game, but I don't know what this gets them other than perhaps  saving some travel.  I have no real sense about which conference (NCAC or PAC) is stronger, although I 'm sure CWRU moving would benefit the NCAC at the expense of the PAC. I really can't see anyone else having a logical reason for leaving.  I have no clue what Westminster is up to unless they know something about where the PAC is going that no one else is aware of (unlikely).  I've always been a little concerned that one of the current schools in the conference may face some financial difficulties that could effect their athletic programs, although most PAC schools have a high percentage of their students (40% +) playing varsity sports, which makes them dependent on sports producing students.  Certainly not the case for CMU or CWRU.

NCAC doesn't save CWRU travel. DePauw and Wabash each are two times further from Cleveland than Waynesburg. PAC Football is stronger IMO than NCAC. (Ranked 11th strongest on this site while NCAC ranked 19th) CMU easily handled DePauw their champ in post season last year. What both NCAC and PAC teams benefit if CWRU moves, is a chance at SoS above .500. The benefit of that would be higher ranking to be more likely to host in post season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on May 16, 2023, 09:56:59 PM
Gang,

I realize that this is the football board, but I gotta point out that CWRU just won its first ever division 3 national title in ANY team sport by beating Tufts 5-2 in men's tennis.

I can only hope that this will inspire all of CWRU's athletic teams, including its football team, to achieve the same level of success!!!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on May 20, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Spartans QB 'room' appears to have shrunk by one, as Alex Fromberg's Twitter now has TCNJ in his heading. https://twitter.com/alex_fromberg

It's still pretty crowded, though.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on June 03, 2023, 12:26:29 PM
Regarding NCAC vs PAC conference strength, here is an interesting site:

https://www.versussportssimulator.com/D3/rankings

Based on a quick comparison of where each conference's schools are ranked, I would say the edge goes to the PAC with 6 teams in the top 100 vs 3 for the NCAC. Lots of interesting stats here.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 19, 2023, 09:55:46 PM
Spartans appear to have landed a Duquesne transfer on the defense:

https://www.hudl.com/profile/5528383/JT-Cooper

https://twitter.com/cwrufootball/status/1670840600407556105
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 20, 2023, 03:04:30 PM
https://goduquesne.com/sports/football/roster/j-t--cooper/11235

2 yrs eligibility
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 21, 2023, 01:09:45 PM
It hasn't been made official, but Mentor RB Mitchell Waite reportedly heading to CWRU.

[Edit] Now officially a Spartan https://twitter.com/CWRUFootball/status/1671850744515907584/photo/1

https://twitter.com/mitchwaite28

https://twitter.com/Coach_MattGray/status/1653553257120235520

He would join fellow DI NE Lakes District 2nd team RB Owen Bisker in the incoming class when they report on August 9.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on June 23, 2023, 01:21:20 PM
^ just gonna say.. it's official now!  Spartans got the Mentor running back. 

For the longest time, CWRU had been pulling talent from PA and many other states.  Great to see the recent shift of snagging some top Cleveland talent.

EDIT:

Both have some good highlights:

Owen Bisker, Cleveland Heights (Travis Kelce's high school): https://www.hudl.com/profile/12901218/Owen-Bisker
Mitch Waite, Mentor (against some of the top DI teams in Ohio): https://www.hudl.com/profile/9779565/Mitchell-Waite

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 23, 2023, 02:32:19 PM
Curiously Bisker was honored at RB, but his senior highlights are all at LB, suggesting that he expects to play LB at CWRU.
[edit] He's listed at RB on roster just posted.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on June 29, 2023, 12:02:43 PM
New CWRU athletics website with 2023 FB roster
https://athletics.case.edu/sports/football/roster 112 players

8 QBs including 5 FYs  Kipp or Fillips likely to battle for starting spot.

Transfer SO Robert Verba DL listed at 6'2 265. In HS he was listed at 6'2 235. https://www.hudl.com/profile/13553812/Robert-Verba

Came to CWRU after spending a year at Cuyahoga Community College, where he was a member of the baseball team... Was a four-year member of the Pymatuning Valley High School football team, serving as a captain his senior year... Helped lead his team to three-straight conference championships... Named to the all-state second team as both a junior and a senior... Totaled 721 receiving yards, 624 rushing yards, 13 touchdowns, 13.5 tackles for loss, and 10 sacks... Named to the all-academic team four times and was his high school's valedictorian... Was a member of his high school's baseball team, earning all-state honors as a senior... Also played basketball.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 05, 2023, 12:52:28 PM
Any ideas on the starting 11 each way?

We appear to have several all-PAC players returning.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 05, 2023, 02:56:07 PM
On D the only loss is Schuster at CB. He likely will be replaced by Oddo who was injured last season, but had seven starts at CB in 2021.

On O obviously Saxton is gone. QB should be between Kipp and Fillips. Orisini could be replaced by James who was mostly used as a blocker and receiver last season. He'll be wearing Orsisni's #1. Both tackles graduated. Knipp was a backup last season at RT in four games. I'd guess one of the SOs or even a FY could be in the mix.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 05, 2023, 06:28:09 PM
Our Center is also all PAC, right?

I assume the former Kent State QB is the front runner, right?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 13, 2023, 02:52:09 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone know when PAC media days are scheduled?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 13, 2023, 09:37:56 PM
It will be on the PAC website once it is scheduled. Likely the first Wednesday in August.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 24, 2023, 04:41:37 PM
PAC Media Day is on August 2nd.

https://pacathletics.org/news/2023/7/19/pac-football-media-day-set-for-august-2nd.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 24, 2023, 05:33:19 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on July 24, 2023, 04:41:37 PM
PAC Media Day is on August 2nd.

https://pacathletics.org/news/2023/7/19/pac-football-media-day-set-for-august-2nd.aspx


+k
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 28, 2023, 02:07:50 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on May 20, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Spartans QB 'room' appears to have shrunk by one, as Alex Fromberg's Twitter now has TCNJ in his heading. https://twitter.com/alex_fromberg

It's still pretty crowded, though.

Fromberg has just popped up on the Spartan's roster. He's listed at 220. Twenty pounds heavier that last season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on July 29, 2023, 07:47:57 PM
Indeed.

https://athletics.case.edu/sports/football/roster/alex-fromberg/8317
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on July 31, 2023, 03:46:49 PM
https://d3football.com/top25/2023/preseason

Carnegie-Mellon #16

W&J RV (31st most)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on July 31, 2023, 11:23:17 PM
Interesting.  A bit surprised Case Western Reserve didn't receive any votes.

Kudos to CMU and W&J for remaining on the national radar.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 01, 2023, 02:43:06 PM
We may still have a great season IF (and this is a pretty big IF) we can establish someone as a reliable, productive starting QB.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on August 01, 2023, 04:19:00 PM
https://athletics.case.edu/news/2023/8/1/2023-cwru-football-season-preview.aspx

Fromberg now listed on roster as 200 lbs
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 01, 2023, 11:49:58 PM
^ Great read on the season preview.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 02, 2023, 11:26:19 AM
Is PAC Media Day streaming live somewhere?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 02, 2023, 04:03:21 PM
Found the recording: https://www.pacstream.net/

CWRU starts at 1:31

Here's the recap: 

https://pacathletics.org/news/2023/7/24/football-pac-media-day-2023.aspx

Btw are there any other PAC posters not from CWRU ??
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on August 03, 2023, 05:30:56 PM
Quote from: E.115 on August 02, 2023, 04:03:21 PM

Btw are there any other PAC posters not from CWRU ??

Yes
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 03, 2023, 09:36:32 PM
^Salute to the you Bob!  Huge congrats and bravo on such an impressive tenure.

Media Day began with a brief welcome from PAC Commissioner Joe Onderko, which was followed by Bob Gregg and Mark Uriah being honored as this year's recipients of the Dow Carnahan Media Award. Carnahan, a longtime supporter and friend of the PAC, passed away unexpectedly on April 29, 2016. The award is presented annually to a distinguished member of the media or on-campus representative for his or her commendable service while covering and promoting the conference's student-athletes, coaches and programs.

The 2023 season will mark the 40th season that Gregg and Uriah will team up to call Washington & Jefferson College football games on WJPA radio. From the start of the 1984 season, the duo has called the action to local listeners in Washington. During this time, W&J has racked up more than 300 wins, 25 PAC titles and made 2 Stagg Bowl appearances. The 1984 season also started W&J's string of 39 consecutive winning seasons.

Both are Western Pennsylvania natives, as Gregg is a graduate of Washington High School and attended the University of Miami (Fla.) and Geneva College, while Uriah graduated from Chartiers Valley High School and Ohio State University. In addition to their work covering W&J, both gentlemen have been fixtures on the local sports scene. The duo has covered WPIAL and PIAA athletics over the last four decades, including football, basketball, wrestling, baseball and softball, as well as California (Pa.) University playoff games, the Pony League World Series in Washington, Washington Wild Things baseball and the Frontier League playoffs.

Due to their efforts, WJPA Sports is a four-time winner of the Pennsylvania Associated Press Broadcasters Association Award for Best Sports Play-by-Play. They were both inducted into the Washington-Greene Chapter of the Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame in 2013.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 04, 2023, 07:05:17 AM
Another non CWRU poster.

Congrats to Bob & Mark. While living in Tennessee I was able to stream your broadcasts. Why sometimes I even heard my friend Bill Dukett on air. Now we can stream on the big screen, but if traveling, I still have WJPA streaming on the car radio. How far we have come. Back in the day I had to call the Observer Reporter to get a score if it wasn't in the NYT. You guys are great! And no, you were not homers. Best wishes to Mark as he retires, and to you, Bob, as you continue the march!

Washjeff 68


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 05, 2023, 12:40:47 PM
Pittsburgh CW to broadcast PAC (mostly W&J) games this season.

https://pacathletics.org/news/2023/7/5/pac-football-to-be-broadcast-on-pittsburghs-cw-kdka-com-this-fall.aspx

2023 KDKA.com/Pittsburgh CW College Football Broadcast Schedule
Sept. 9 - Geneva at Allegheny, 1 PM
Sept. 16 - Westminster at W&J, 1 PM
Sept. 23 - Thiel at W&J, 1 PM
Sept. 30 - Carnegie Mellon at Allegheny, 7 PM
Oct. 7 - Allegheny at W&J, 2 PM
Oct. 14 - Grove City at Allegheny, 4 PM
Oct. 28 - Case Western Reserve at W&J, 6 PM
Oct. 4 - W&J at Geneva, 1 PM
Oct. 11 - Waynesburg at W&J, 1 PM
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 05, 2023, 07:30:40 PM
And so the PAC continues to move into the new media age. As I'm sure you know it is much broader. W&J now streams MW Basketball, Lacrosse, field hockey, and baseball (there may be others). The production has become more professional. I'm sure this is happening at CWRU and CMU and many other D III schools.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 06, 2023, 07:29:21 PM
We know that the recent pandemic has impacted colleges across the spectrum, and a number have closed at least partially as a result and there are (perhaps many?) more to come as the Baby Boom ends. I have been concerned that there are several schools in the PAC that are seeing declining enrollments with limited resources that may not be able to survive long term. Yes, I was an English major, and my Excell skills have declined, but I still have some of my "executive function."   So here is a comparison of some key metrics of the current members of the PAC:


School   Net Assets 2020**   Students   Assets per Student
Grove City        $341,483,793 1366    $249,988
Allegheny             $315,834,647    1353       $233,433
CMU                  $3,591,866,       16002    $224,464
W&J                    $247,293,225     1157    $215344
Case                  $2,349,400,366    12201    $192,558
St Vincent            $249,224,266   1536    $162,255
Westminster    $167,834,360    1211    $138,592
Waynesburg         $85,753,336    1366    $62,777
Geneva             $70,555,178    1232    $57,269
Bethany             $35,379,781    623    $56,789
Chatham            $131,784,926    2387    $55,209
Thiel                   $46,212,536    907    $50,951
Franciscan          $179,111,641    3656    $48,991    
               
** From 2020 Form 990 filed with IRS   

Those From Westminster up look like they can weather the storm, but I worry about the rest. Of course, there are lots of other things that could come into play.

So. CWRU guys, what do you think?

   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 06, 2023, 07:51:10 PM
CWRU is suffering no drop in enrollment or applications.

We'll be fine.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 06, 2023, 08:12:50 PM
This is not about CWRU, or W&J for that matter. How do you think this might impact the conference?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: unionpalooza on August 07, 2023, 11:02:02 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 06, 2023, 07:29:21 PM
We know that the recent pandemic has impacted colleges across the spectrum, and a number have closed at least partially as a result and there are (perhaps many?) more to come as the Baby Boom ends. I have been concerned that there are several schools in the PAC that are seeing declining enrollments with limited resources that may not be able to survive long term. Yes, I was an English major, and my Excell skills have declined, but I still have some of my "executive function."   So here is a comparison of some key metrics of the current members of the PAC:


School   Net Assets 2020**   Students   Assets per Student
Grove City        $341,483,793 1366    $249,988
Allegheny             $315,834,647    1353       $233,433
CMU                  $3,591,866,       16002    $224,464
W&J                    $247,293,225     1157    $215344
Case                  $2,349,400,366    12201    $192,558
St Vincent            $249,224,266   1536    $162,255
Westminster    $167,834,360    1211    $138,592
Waynesburg         $85,753,336    1366    $62,777
Geneva             $70,555,178    1232    $57,269
Bethany             $35,379,781    623    $56,789
Chatham            $131,784,926    2387    $55,209
Thiel                   $46,212,536    907    $50,951
Franciscan          $179,111,641    3656    $48,991    
               
** From 2020 Form 990 filed with IRS   

Those From Westminster up look like they can weather the storm, but I worry about the rest. Of course, there are lots of other things that could come into play.

So. CWRU guys, what do you think?

Based on a lot of reading about the coming implosion of small private colleges, I think your cutoff line sounds about exactly right.  Odds that any of the bottom six are around in ten years is slim to none.

This list was also fascinating to me because of the huge size gap between CMU and CWRU and the rest of the schools.  I understand those numbers include grad students, but even so, two of these things do not look like the others.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 07, 2023, 11:05:44 AM
None of the bottom six will be around in 10 years? That's a big stretch. Maybe half of that group doesn't make it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: unionpalooza on August 07, 2023, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 07, 2023, 11:05:44 AM
None of the bottom six will be around in 10 years? That's a big stretch. Maybe half of that group doesn't make it.

I think you underestimate the coming cataclysm.  I didn't research them individually, so sure, a few those may be in better shape than average.  (A quick google reveals Thiel in particular seems pretty solid.)  But almost all the schools in this cohort face the same challenges - diminishing applicant pools, the end of COVID slush funds, net operating deficits, overreliance on debt amid rising rates, freezing hiring and/or cutting programs, and so on. Most are effectively paying for students, discounting net tuition more each year, and you can only do that for so long.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 07, 2023, 11:12:43 PM
Yes, but the ones which can survive longer will absorb the students from the ones which go first, like I suspect Cabrini students will bolster Rosemont and others.

I agree there is a consolidation/disruption in progress. I just don't see it taking all of those six in the next 10 years.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 08, 2023, 12:59:51 PM
Union,

I can't speak to any of the other schools, but rest assured that CWRU is thriving and in no danger to closure or distress.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 08, 2023, 03:17:55 PM
I don't think anyone said otherwise, DagarmanSpartan.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 08, 2023, 04:37:01 PM
Regarding the lower six schools..........have any of them announced anything to the effect that they are in distress?

I'm guessing that those schools have always been less financially resourced than the others.

That has never brought about their demise.

Why would they be any closer to this now?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 08, 2023, 05:13:52 PM
Typically schools don't make those kinds of announcements.

What's changing now is that the college-age demographic is shrinking drastically starting in the next year or two.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 09, 2023, 09:23:55 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 06, 2023, 07:29:21 PM
We know that the recent pandemic has impacted colleges across the spectrum, and a number have closed at least partially as a result and there are (perhaps many?) more to come as the Baby Boom ends. I have been concerned that there are several schools in the PAC that are seeing declining enrollments with limited resources that may not be able to survive long term. Yes, I was an English major, and my Excell skills have declined, but I still have some of my "executive function."   So here is a comparison of some key metrics of the current members of the PAC:


School   Net Assets 2020**   Students   Assets per Student
Grove City        $341,483,793 1366    $249,988
Allegheny             $315,834,647    1353       $233,433
CMU                  $3,591,866,       16002    $224,464
W&J                    $247,293,225     1157    $215344
Case                  $2,349,400,366    12201    $192,558
St Vincent            $249,224,266   1536    $162,255
Westminster    $167,834,360    1211    $138,592
Waynesburg         $85,753,336    1366    $62,777
Geneva             $70,555,178    1232    $57,269
Bethany             $35,379,781    623    $56,789
Chatham            $131,784,926    2387    $55,209
Thiel                   $46,212,536    907    $50,951
Franciscan          $179,111,641    3656    $48,991    
               
** From 2020 Form 990 filed with IRS   

Those From Westminster up look like they can weather the storm, but I worry about the rest. Of course, there are lots of other things that could come into play.

So. CWRU guys, what do you think?

Jeff,

Great work. I hope you don't mind, but I added 2023/24 full year tuition and w/ room and board and Graduation Rate.  While not football related, I would like to state some observations and do a little analysis if you guys don't mind.


School      Net Assets 2020**   Students      Assets per Student   Tuition    w/ Room & Board  Graduation Rate -Ntln average is 49%
Grove City  $341,483,793             1366             $249,988         $20,890   $32,660                     84%
Allegheny    $315,834,647             1353             $233,433         $54,300   $71,125                     67%
CMU          $3,591,866,000          16002             $224,464         $62,260   $82,697                     79%
W&J               $247,293,225     1157             $215,344         $29,605*   $43,615                     71%
Case      $2,349,400,366       12201             $192,558         $32,050   **                             67%
St Vincent      $249,224,266     1536             $162,255         $38,814   $53,437                     67%
Westminster   $167,834,360     1211             $138,592        $38,760   $51,140                     66%
Waynesburg      $85,753,336     1366               $62,777        $28,120   $40,220                     59%
Geneva           $70,555,178     1232               $57,269        $31,090   $43,330                     70%
Bethany           $35,379,781      623                       $56,789        $31,920   $47,752                     43%
Chatham          $131,784,926      2387               $55,209        $42,250   $58,561                     56%
Thiel            $46,212,536      907                       $50,951        $33,620   $48,150                     42%
Franciscan         $179,111,641     3656               $48,991        $30,620   $39,050                     63%

* W&J listed a full load as 3-4 courses.  All the other schools listed the rate for a full load to be 12-18 credits. 
** I could not find the room and board rate for Case.  Maybe I was not observant enough, but I could not find it.
*** Some schools spelled out the room and board rate, which I just copied down.  Other schools listed meal plans and housing options.  In those cases, I took the lowest cost meal plan and housing option for my total.

There are a few things I find interesting about this. 

1) The 2 research universities really are outliers among these schools.

2) I know it is rare for a student to pay sticker price but these tuitions at some of these schools are out of hand.

3) In line with point #2, I graduated from St. Vincent in 2002.  The sticker price is almost doubled what I paid back then.  I am going to use teaching and accounting as examples as I know them best.  In 2002 my accounting major friends came out of college and making around $45K in what was then the Big 6.  My 2 nephews just graduated in the past 2 years, and they are making around $60-65K to start at Big 4 firms. Teaching majors back then were making around $30-35K to start, my niece graduated last year and starting this year at $45K.  I know salaries do not keep up with inflation, but damn this is crazy to see.

4) Grove City is notorious for running their school different than most.  They take a much more conservative approach than 99% of schools out there in all aspects of their school.  As we can see, at least fiscally, that approach works.  They are at the top of the list for Assets per Student, and they have the lowest tuition and w/ room and board on the list and that is without taking any federal money unlike almost every other school in the country.  On top of financial situation being as strong as it is, they also top the list in the PAC with Graduation Rate.  I know some GCC grads, and they seem like squared away people.  I know every school has different mission statements and goals/objectives (ie the 2 research schools in this conference certainly have different missions' statements/goals/objectives then the rest), but maybe some of these schools need to look at GCC and copy them more.  They are obviously doing, a lot right while others not so much. 

5) I was shocked to see both Chatham and Franciscan with an enrollment that large.  Outside of the 2 research schools, these are the 2 biggest schools in the PAC based on enrollment.  Even if they lost 10% of their enrollment and the other schools gained 10% these 2 would still be the 2 largest outside of the research schools.

6) Looking at the data, to me Bethany and Theil are t in the worst shape.  They have the 2 lowest enrollment numbers with both being less than 1,000 students.  They both have Net Assets less than $100 Million and Assets per Student less than $60K.  To make matters worse, they both have graduation rates lower than the national average.  I hope they can turn it around, but they have a lot of work ahead of them.  Again, going back to point 4, they need to talk with GCC administration and see what they are doing right and start coping some of that.

7) Geneva is an interesting case study that needs to be looked at more.  Out of the 11 non research schools they are average in size, but they are 3rd in graduation rate.  At least athletically they have one of the best fan bases in the PAC.  Maybe I will look into alumni giving one day to see.  None the less with a 70% graduation rate and an average size student body, i do not expect them to be in trouble of closure as long as the administration is halfway competent.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on August 09, 2023, 10:14:43 AM
Nice analysis!

Also - don't forget that some Universities have other foundations that file Form 990. As an example, CNU has an Education Foundation and a Real estate Foundation, with net assets in each. I'm sure other universities would have similar foundations as well as others.

Cheers!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 09, 2023, 10:33:01 AM
Grove City is also different in that it does not participate in federal student financial aid programs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 12:49:00 PM
Grove City pulls from a very defined population. I suspect if more schools followed Grove City, Hillsdale, and what Governor Desantis wants Florida's New College to be (and yes I know there are more, those just are the ones that have made the most news lately), they would start to run out of students willing to attend them all pretty quickly.

There is a spot in higher education for lots of different viewpoints, but college students are a population like anything else, and populations fall into bell curves. The wings of the curve are much smaller than the center. Positioning in the wings can be a successful strategy, but not when oversaturated.

The flip side, of course, is schools that succeed in those wings tend to have very dedicated and strong alumni support. Grove City has held to their course for a long time and been very successful doing it, but I'm not sure it's a strategy that is replicable on a wide scale.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 09, 2023, 01:44:13 PM
Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 12:49:00 PM
Grove City pulls from a very defined population. I suspect if more schools followed Grove City, Hillsdale, and what Governor Desantis wants Florida's New College to be (and yes I know there are more, those just are the ones that have made the most news lately), they would start to run out of students willing to attend them all pretty quickly.

There is a spot in higher education for lots of different viewpoints, but college students are a population like anything else, and populations fall into bell curves. The wings of the curve are much smaller than the center. Positioning in the wings can be a successful strategy, but not when oversaturated.

The flip side, of course, is schools that succeed in those wings tend to have very dedicated and strong alumni support. Grove City has held to their course for a long time and been very successful doing it, but I'm not sure it's a strategy that is replicable on a wide scale.

I hear what you are saying and agree, but I am not talking about who they market their product to, or anything they teach to create the bell curve you are talking about.  I am speaking strictly about how they run the business side.  As I mentioned and Pat C commented on, they do not take federal money including federal financial aid.  Yet they have the lowest tuition.  I do not know all their business practices, but I do know one of the ways they keep it low is by only giving scholarships if they have the physical money to cover it.  I listened to a radio program with the President of the GCC (this was roughly a decade ago, it may be a new president now I do not remember the name but the position he held and what he said.) 

He went into the reason why most colleges tuitions are through the roof but how GCC was able to stay low cost without government money.  The 2 main points he made that I would give the gist about is, government money is nice, but it comes with a lot of strings attached that are every bit as costly.  If those programs are not managed well, they end up costing more than the government money they receive.  Just knowing how businesses/bureaucracies od certain sizes (all college even the smallest of them are big enough) work, I would venture to say that most schools, if any, manage it well and that the cost exceeds the money received.

The other reason he stated is scholarships.  The great majority of scholarships schools award out, are not endowed.  To cover the expenses of the non-endowed scholarships, schools raise the price for all the students to pay for the few.  That led schools raising the cost even more as they had to then give aid to all the students, because the tuition rose too much. So, if school X tuition is $50,000 no one attending pays that, as they all receive some aid.  So, let's say the real cost averages to $35K.  According to the GCC Pres of that time I heard him talk, if they never played the shell game of awarding non-endowed scholarships, that school could have just kept tuition low for everyone and the set tuition would be said $28K.  Again, that is not a quote from him, just my interpretation and the gist of what he was saying. 

None the less, if you are Theil and Bethany, even others, I do not think it would hurt to ask GCC what their business plan is and see what from it you can use.  They are clearly doing better from a financial perspective regardless of what your/mine/other people's opinion of them are with regards to politics/marketing/viewpoint/etc .  Maybe Bethany and Theil want to keep the government money and deal with the strings attached.  If what the GCC president said is true about scholarships, maybe they can at least go with the only funding the endowed scholarship route.  1 thing is for sure, GCC has always be rated as one of the better run colleges that stays out of the red.  That is not the norm for most colleges.  It just is not. Again, I am a SVC grad, I have no ties to GCC but I can look at data and make fairly accurate assumptions on it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 02:48:51 PM
Quote from: mikefln on August 09, 2023, 01:44:13 PM

I hear what you are saying and agree, but I am not talking about who they market their product to, or anything they teach to create the bell curve you are talking about.  I am speaking strictly about how they run the business side.  As I mentioned and Pat C commented on, they do not take federal money including federal financial aid.  Yet they have the lowest tuition.  I do not know all their business practices, but I do know one of the ways they keep it low is by only giving scholarships if they have the physical money to cover it.  I listened to a radio program with the President of the GCC (this was roughly a decade ago, it may be a new president now I do not remember the name but the position he held and what he said.) 

He went into the reason why most colleges tuitions are through the roof but how GCC was able to stay low cost without government money.  The 2 main points he made that I would give the gist about is, government money is nice, but it comes with a lot of strings attached that are every bit as costly.  If those programs are not managed well, they end up costing more than the government money they receive.  Just knowing how businesses/bureaucracies od certain sizes (all college even the smallest of them are big enough) work, I would venture to say that most schools, if any, manage it well and that the cost exceeds the money received.

The other reason he stated is scholarships.  The great majority of scholarships schools award out, are not endowed.  To cover the expenses of the non-endowed scholarships, schools raise the price for all the students to pay for the few.  That led schools raising the cost even more as they had to then give aid to all the students, because the tuition rose too much. So, if school X tuition is $50,000 no one attending pays that, as they all receive some aid.  So, let's say the real cost averages to $35K.  According to the GCC Pres of that time I heard him talk, if they never played the shell game of awarding non-endowed scholarships, that school could have just kept tuition low for everyone and the set tuition would be said $28K.  Again, that is not a quote from him, just my interpretation and the gist of what he was saying. 

None the less, if you are Theil and Bethany, even others, I do not think it would hurt to ask GCC what their business plan is and see what from it you can use.  They are clearly doing better from a financial perspective regardless of what your/mine/other people's opinion of them are with regards to politics/marketing/viewpoint/etc .  Maybe Bethany and Theil want to keep the government money and deal with the strings attached.  If what the GCC president said is true about scholarships, maybe they can at least go with the only funding the endowed scholarship route.  1 thing is for sure, GCC has always be rated as one of the better run colleges that stays out of the red.  That is not the norm for most colleges.  It just is not. Again, I am a SVC grad, I have no ties to GCC but I can look at data and make fairly accurate assumptions on it.

It works for Grove City. But, Grove City is also 92-93% white according to collegefactual. If you only serve those who can pay for it, you lose a lot of diversity of experience. Maybe that is a big deal, maybe it's not. The Supreme Court decision is certainly going to reframe the debate, but it undoubtedly leads to more of an echo chamber environment. It's easy to say everyone should pay their own way and no one should be required to pay more to help out those less fortunate, but there are plenty of arguments to the contrary, primarily that such a policy tends to benefit a socioeconomic class that statistically ties more closely to some racial backgrounds than others.

As I said, Grove City is very successful at what they do. I applaud them for being on very stable financial footing and for helping create a broad spectrum of educational opportunities in the United States. It's just not really a model I think can be replicated at too many places at once. I also don't believe you can divorce their financial practices from their underlying mission and values.

Personally I have said before and I'll say it again, there are simply too many colleges in the United States. There are too many college degrees awarded each year, and we have diluted the value of attaining an undergraduate degree badly by awarding them from colleges more interested in staying open than in educating students who want or should be going into higher education.

In 1970, 10% of the population (age 25 and above) had a post h.s. degree. In 1990 it was 21.3%. In 2020 it was 37.5%. With so many people with degrees, jobs that didn't used to need a degree now require one to screen out applicants. That unnecessarily squeezes the job options for those unable or unwilling to go to college, usually adding the burden of student debt to people who shouldn't have needed to take it on.

In my opinion, the contraction of colleges we are going to see is not a bad thing. There are a lot of schools that simply don't need to exist. While that may be a tragedy to the stakeholders of each school that closes, I'm hopeful that a contraction is what we need for colleges to understand that prices are out of control, costs are out of control, non-teaching administration is out of control, quality of experience has trumped quality of education at many schools, and that many, many schools have strayed from their purpose, providing an educational experience to best prepare graduates for life in the white collar workforce.

Time will tell I guess.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 09, 2023, 03:02:30 PM
Here are CWRU's room and board rates, since somebody asked.

https://case.edu/housing/rates-and-dates/2022-2023-room-and-board-rates
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 09, 2023, 03:05:06 PM
Regarding scholarships, CWRU has scholarships that are both endowed and non-endowed.  Likewise, there is need based financial aid, and the university accepts federal financial aid and federally backed student loans.

They also accept ROTC scholarship money.  Those people get the best deal of all.  How?  Well, if you get an ROTC scholarship, and attend school at Case, that scholarship will cover your tuition, and CWRU automatically kicks in free room and board, so you basically end up going to school cost-free; about your only expense will be transportation to the school at the start and end of each semester.

Regarding Bethany...........I am guessing that it has always been that small, and has probably always been on the lower end endowment wise.

That hasn't shut it down.  I am skeptical that such a shut down or crisis is imminent, given that.  At that particular school.........that is the NORM.........and that norm seems to have been sustainable for many decades.  I'd be shocked if it changed.

And that's why I don't necessarily see a big "college contraction" to be either in progress or imminent.  Schools that have always been small like Bethany will remain such........and will continue on precisely that way.

To the extent that the population of people seeking a college education might be reduced, that reduction will mostly be felt at "directional" public universities.  We can already see that at a school like Central Michigan U., which went from 30K to 17K in enrollment within the space of just over a decade.  That's where you'll see enrollments drop.  That said, those schools will stay open in order to educate the communities that they are publicly funded to educate..........simply in smaller numbers. 

I could be wrong, but schools that have always been tiny, like Bethany, will simply continue to go on the way that they always have.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 09, 2023, 03:48:04 PM
Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 02:48:51 PM

It works for Grove City. But, Grove City is also 92-93% white according to collegefactual. If you only serve those who can pay for it, you lose a lot of diversity of experience. Maybe that is a big deal, maybe it's not. The Supreme Court decision is certainly going to reframe the debate, but it undoubtedly leads to more of an echo chamber environment. It's easy to say everyone should pay their own way and no one should be required to pay more to help out those less fortunate, but there are plenty of arguments to the contrary, primarily that such a policy tends to benefit a socioeconomic class that statistically ties more closely to some racial backgrounds than others.
There are schools who are set up to serve those in finacial need.  They are state schools that are funded by taxpayer money for the very reason you said.

Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 02:48:51 PM
As I said, Grove City is very successful at what they do. I applaud them for being on very stable financial footing and for helping create a broad spectrum of educational opportunities in the United States. It's just not really a model I think can be replicated at too many places at once. I also don't believe you can divorce their financial practices from their underlying mission and values.
To me it is not divorcing financial practices from underlying mission and values.  It is making sure expenses stay under X.  Too many schools, businesses, governments, people have a tendency to spend X+.  Again, there are state schools that are tax funded, no private school is a charity, it is a not for profit but it is not a charity. 

Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 02:48:51 PM
Personally, I have said before and I'll say it again, there are simply too many colleges in the United States. There are too many college degrees awarded each year, and we have diluted the value of attaining an undergraduate degree badly by awarding them from colleges more interested in staying open than in educating students who want or should be going into higher education.

In 1970, 10% of the population (age 25 and above) had a post h.s. degree. In 1990 it was 21.3%. In 2020 it was 37.5%. With so many people with degrees, jobs that didn't used to need a degree now require one to screen out applicants. That unnecessarily squeezes the job options for those unable or unwilling to go to college, usually adding the burden of student debt to people who shouldn't have needed to take it on.

In my opinion, the contraction of colleges we are going to see is not a bad thing. There are a lot of schools that simply don't need to exist. While that may be a tragedy to the stakeholders of each school that closes, I'm hopeful that a contraction is what we need for colleges to understand that prices are out of control, costs are out of control, non-teaching administration is out of control, quality of experience has trumped quality of education at many schools, and that many, many schools have strayed from their purpose, providing an educational experience to best prepare graduates for life in the white collar workforce.

Time will tell I guess.

Now this I agree with except for the white collar workforce part.  There are a lot of programs that schools could be created to help the blue collar workforce too.  Delaware Vally College is a good example with their agriculture focused niche.  A lot in that program can choose the white collar route or the blue collar route.  It does not need to be just agriculutre, but i am using that as an example.  None the less I do agree with this above.

Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on August 09, 2023, 03:05:06 PM
Regarding scholarships, CWRU has scholarships that are both endowed and non-endowed.  Likewise, there is need based financial aid, and the university accepts federal financial aid and federally backed student loans.

They also accept ROTC scholarship money.  Those people get the best deal of all.  How?  Well, if you get an ROTC scholarship, and attend school at Case, that scholarship will cover your tuition, and CWRU automatically kicks in free room and board, so you basically end up going to school cost-free; about your only expense will be transportation to the school at the start and end of each semester.

Regarding Bethany...........I am guessing that it has always been that small, and has probably always been on the lower end endowment wise.

That hasn't shut it down.  I am skeptical that such a shut down or crisis is imminent, given that.  At that particular school.........that is the NORM.........and that norm seems to have been sustainable for many decades.  It'd be shocked if it changed.

CWRU is big with student body and general endowment it can handle issues that these smaller schools cannot.   I am not an expert on Bethany (or any of these schools), but good for them for running all these years if that has always been their makeup.  1 question, did they always have a graduation rate lower than the national average?  I can see that being a big differnce between surviving and not.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 05:10:04 PM
I don't think you've looked at Penn State's average cost of attendance lately. It's just under 19K for in state tuition and just under 13K for room and board.  Amazingly, that's 32K per year. I also think it's a bit ridiculous to look at sticker prices. The department of education actually does an "average cost by income" for schools that report. Theil's looks like this:

Cost by household income
From US Dept of Education (IPEDS) · Learn more
Household income   Average cost after aid
Less than $30,000   $21,435
$30,001–48,000   $19,524
$48,001–75,000   $19,321
$75,001–110,000   $23,762
More than $110,001   $24,553


Room and board is about 14K.  So in the top bracket, it costs, on average, about 39K. So yeah, it's more than the state school, about 18% more, on average if you make over $110K.  Its only 6% more if you make less than 75K, roughly.

State schools aren't cheap, and state taxpayers only cover miniscule amounts of each state school's budget. For most state schools, in-state taxpayers cover less than 15% of the operating budget, though it varies greatly state by state. I know in PA they were arguing about around $650 million this year for all the state schools in total. Penn State's system alone has an operating budget close to $7.7 billion, though a huge chunk of that, close to 45%, is for the hospital. You can get a breakdown on at the link below, but state taxpayers kicked in $296 million to the Penn State school system, on a budget of $2.6 billion. 

https://budget.psu.edu/BOTJuly/BoardDocuments%2021-22/incomepie.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 09, 2023, 05:44:36 PM
Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 05:10:04 PM
I don't think you've looked at Penn State's average cost of attendance lately. It's just under 19K for in state tuition and just under 13K for room and board.  Amazingly, that's 32K per year. I also think it's a bit ridiculous to look at sticker prices. The department of education actually does an "average cost by income" for schools that report. Theil's looks like this:

Cost by household income
From US Dept of Education (IPEDS) · Learn more
Household income   Average cost after aid
Less than $30,000   $21,435
$30,001–48,000   $19,524
$48,001–75,000   $19,321
$75,001–110,000   $23,762
More than $110,001   $24,553


Room and board is about 14K.  So in the top bracket, it costs, on average, about 39K. So yeah, it's more than the state school, about 18% more, on average if you make over $110K.  Its only 6% more if you make less than 75K, roughly.

State schools aren't cheap, and state taxpayers only cover miniscule amounts of each state school's budget. For most state schools, in-state taxpayers cover less than 15% of the operating budget, though it varies greatly state by state. I know in PA they were arguing about around $650 million this year for all the state schools in total. Penn State's system alone has an operating budget close to $7.7 billion, though a huge chunk of that, close to 45%, is for the hospital. You can get a breakdown on at the link below, but state taxpayers kicked in $296 million to the Penn State school system, on a budget of $2.6 billion. 

https://budget.psu.edu/BOTJuly/BoardDocuments%2021-22/incomepie.aspx

Penn State is not a good example, and neither are Pitt, Temple and I think Lincoln too.  All of those schools are state related, basically part private and part state supported.  The PASSHE is the state system of higher education, think Slippery Rock/IUP/Etc.  For the 2023 school year SR tuition is $10,506, w/room and board it is $22,412 for instate students.  So yes, they are significantly cheaper than private schools and there is still finical aid involved at those institutions also. Plus, your claim that using sticker price is ridiculous, is actually backfiring on you.   Your example of Theil's true cost to attend if you make less than $30K a year proves my point, GCC sticker price is still cheaper without any and before subsidy.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: unionpalooza on August 09, 2023, 06:30:46 PM
Mikefln, I think the basic point folks are trying to make here is that there's nothing special or exceptional about GCC's financial acumen or approach.  The average price (per DOE data) a kid pays at Thiel is $23k; that's basically the same average price as GCC, assuming you believe their claim they don't discount tuition.  Lots of other schools is the same ballpark.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 11, 2023, 07:19:31 PM
In all the years D3boards has been in existence  I don't recall anyone from GCC (or most of the other PAC schools) posting here. As Pat will know in the early days there was lots of "smack" going on with players and assistant coaches posting. As I understand it Head coaches got involved and basically shut down any players and coaches from posting. Lots of forums on here are very active, but this one is now some old guys from Case, and old guys Bob  Gregg (sorry Bob) and I from W&J (yes, there was the recent grad from CMU but he has moved on). The coaches were right to keep their people from posting here  (certainly nothing to gain)but this is certainly a much more boring thread than others unless  there is a D3 wide topic like our current discussion that draws comment/debate. Why are the other members of the conference not participating? Oh, there was also a Thomas More alum but he is gone. Pat, (or any one else) any data/ thoughts you can share?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jknezek on August 12, 2023, 04:31:26 PM
I think most of these boards have a couple regulars.  Then a few sporadic posters. Then the ones who show up for a season or two while their kid plays or they are a year or two after playing. But message boards everywhere are a dieing. Doesn't seem to matter or the topic.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 14, 2023, 10:45:33 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 11, 2023, 07:19:31 PM
In all the years D3boards has been in existence  I don't recall anyone from GCC (or most of the other PAC schools) posting here. As Pat will know in the early days there was lots of "smack" going on with players and assistant coaches posting. As I understand it Head coaches got involved and basically shut down any players and coaches from posting. Lots of forums on here are very active, but this one is now some old guys from Case, and old guys Bob  Gregg (sorry Bob) and I from W&J (yes, there was the recent grad from CMU but he has moved on). The coaches were right to keep their people from posting here  (certainly nothing to gain)but this is certainly a much more boring thread than others unless  there is a D3 wide topic like our current discussion that draws comment/debate. Why are the other members of the conference not participating? Oh, there was also a Thomas More alum but he is gone. Pat, (or any one else) any data/ thoughts you can share?

Jeff,

I assume you referencing me as the GCC grad since recently I talked and defended the school. I am actually a St Vincent Grad, class of 2002 before they had football.  I initially went to Robert Morris for football but left after my freshman year as I hurt my knee (thought it was worse than it was) and I just didn't like the school much.  I chose SVC because I had a cousin there and they did not have football (or wrestling) as I was afraid of being tempted to play with a bad knee.  After completing my sophomore year at SVC, my knee was better than ever and I wanted to transfer somewhere that had a team.  I missed football (and wrestling) too much but felt stuck at SVC as I didn't want to transfer again and lose more credits than I already did from transferring.  So my plan worked too well, as I never considered my knee healing stronger.  If I had to do it again, I would have gone to Theil or Waynesburg and tried to play football and wrestle while in college.

I only bring my history up, to explain why I visit this board (infrequently) and never talk much.  I really do not have much of a connection with the SVC football program or school that much to come here and post about it.  Honestly, I never even went to one of their games yet and they have been playing for over a decade now.  Maybe I will go this year to show my son (who is a wrestler not a football player, way too small to play ball) the school as they are getting a wrestling team.  Sometimes I watch SVC on the PAC channel on a Sunday morning after church and before the NFL, but I would do that to any PAC school if it was supposed to be a good game because I am a football nerd.  So, I am not close to the program and have nothing of value to add to the discussion here most of the time.  There is nothing as far as just being an alum, that makes me want to be anything more than a casual onlooker.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my time at SVC, it is/was a good school at a great value, and it is in a great area for outdoor activities. With that said, I do not have a strong love for it like some people have for their school.

My interest in coming on this board is the fact that I am a football nerd from WPA.  I just like to keep up with the on-goings of the local schools and former WPIAL players.  Honestly my closest connection to any PAC school is when a player from my old HS Bishop Canevin is on the team.  I know I am excited to see what Xavier Nelson does at Waynesburg.  If he was bigger, that kid would at least of been a FCS recruit if not FBS.

When you made that chart and talked about the possibility of schools closing, I like diving into data and making assumptions, hypothesis, analysis, etc with them so I took it and ran with it.  In doing so I was impressed by GCC and as I stated I know a few GCC alums, and they just always seem to be squared away people.  So, I looked at a few more factors and went with it.  I found it enjoyable, but it did not seem others did, so I stopped responding. 

As far as trying to get more interest on this board, did anyone ever talk to any of the schools ADs or SIDs to see if they would promote this board at the games?  Speaking of which, how are the atmosphere at most schools in the PAC?  From what I can tell, it is fairly lackluster outside of a few schools and a few big game/events (ie homecoming).  There are no big rivalries, bands, tailgating, or gameday traditions that get the juices flowing.  Most schools in the PAC do not have any of that college pageantry to them.  It is like they have a team and therefore a game just because.  My nephew graduated from John Carroll a couple years ago where he played on the team.  They always had good attendance, tailgating, and college pageantry but when they played Mount Union or Baldwin Wallace everything was turned up a few notches.  I know D3 will not be confused with D1, but these PAC schools should promote better and build better environments to give people reason to want to go to the game as much as some of those JCU fans do.  That is an attainable level to reach.  From the outside looking in, it appears only Geneva, W&J and Case and maybe Westminster is at least respectable in trying to have a good college gameday atmosphere.   But like I said, it seems like a lot of PAC schools have teams just to have teams.  YMMV
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 22, 2023, 07:51:49 AM
In an effort to get some discussion on this board before the season kickoffs, tell us about your schools gameday environment.

Cost of ticket?
What does the tailgating scene look like?
Average attendance and what does that equal to in terms of capacity %?
Any special gameday traditions the school partakes in?
Any annual traditions the school partakes in? (example: bon fire before homecoming or rival game)

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 24, 2023, 03:52:54 PM
I wouldn't say Case's gameday atmosphere is super-good.

In a 2400 seat stadium, there will probably be between 1K and 1.5K in the stands.

There will be a small amount of tailgating, but nothing super huge.  At homecoming, you'll see somewhat more.

They do have a fun band and decent cheer and dance squads.

On homecoming, they do have a bit of a homecoming parade which has grown over the years.

That's about it.

It's NOTHING like attending a D1-FBS P5 level game.  Those have massive tailgates taking up acres and acres of parking space with lots of tents, etc., beer flowing by the keg, huge bands on both sides with lots of pageantry and fancy halftime shows, video scoreboards, and thousands upon thousands of screaming fans in the stadium.

I would imagine the situation is similar at all but a handful of D3 schools.

I'll qualify that by saying that my last CWRU game was 2014 homecoming against Geneva.

ADL70 might be a better authority because he attends many more games, but that's how that 2014 homecoming game was, and that's not too different from how it was when I attended games as a student in the early 90s.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 24, 2023, 05:38:35 PM
Thank you Dagarman for responding.  I know a D3 school will be nothing like a FBS P5 programs, that would be unrealistic.  But I used John Carroll as an example.  Most of their games are well under 100% capacity (Mount and BW are the 2 sold out games) and many are around the 50% capacity that you mention Case hovers around.  Despite that, most of their games still provide a good atmosphere/environment that makes you feel like "this program means something here!" With JCU there is still a ton of room to get to a Wabash or St Johns level.   Go to youtube and look at those enviroments.  That is great stuff there. But a JCU level is still good for D3 schools.

It just seems like football is just a thing most PAC schools have to just have it.  It is like the administration hired a coach and put the team together then said "ok that is good enough!", then they never supported it past that.  I have been to a few Geneva games (been a few years so it could have changed) but you could tell, the school and community cared about having a program. It was more than just having a team.  I went to W&J home game vs John Carrol and it had a nice college feel to it.  Neither place was to be confused with P5 football pageantry, but there was still a spirit to both Geneva and W&J similar to JCU where it was more than just having a team for the sake of it.   From what you are describing it sound like Case could have that college spirit I am talking about and I hope it does.  Just having that band and dance squad go a long way.

Sorry for my rambling.  Not trying to piss anyone off here.
Maybe I am wrong, and every PAC school has it. From the games I stream, it does not feel that way at all.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on August 24, 2023, 11:37:26 PM
Thanks @mikefln. 

I will add Case Western Reserve has what I'd described as a pretty unique playing environment, being encased in buildings, in a dense urban area (the second photo is my favorite):

https://twitter.com/DebeljakGreg/status/1624945032468787205

Several students often watch the game from their dorm rooms.

Alumni/guests/recruits can also watch from the two-story Wyant Athletic Center (https://case.edu/president/initiatives/enhancing-our-campus/wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center (https://case.edu/president/initiatives/enhancing-our-campus/wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center)), which can also be seen in the north end zone in the fourth photo: https://twitter.com/mikeygcle/status/1624927787688550402/photo/4
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on August 25, 2023, 09:25:37 AM
Quote from: mikefln on August 22, 2023, 07:51:49 AM
In an effort to get some discussion on this board before the season kickoffs, tell us about your schools gameday environment.

Cost of ticket?
What does the tailgating scene look like?
Average attendance and what does that equal to in terms of capacity %?
Any special gameday traditions the school partakes in?
Any annual traditions the school partakes in? (example: bon fire before homecoming or rival game)

I'm going to steal this and post it over on the NJAC board. Great idea you had!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on August 25, 2023, 03:12:11 PM
Quote from: E.115 on August 24, 2023, 11:37:26 PM
Thanks @mikefln. 

I will add Case Western Reserve has what I'd described as a pretty unique playing environment, being encased in buildings, in a dense urban area (the second photo is my favorite):

https://twitter.com/DebeljakGreg/status/1624945032468787205

Several students often watch the game from their dorm rooms.

Alumni/guests/recruits can also watch from the two-story Wyant Athletic Center (https://case.edu/president/initiatives/enhancing-our-campus/wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center (https://case.edu/president/initiatives/enhancing-our-campus/wyant-athletic-and-wellness-center)), which can also be seen in the north end zone in the fourth photo: https://twitter.com/mikeygcle/status/1624927787688550402/photo/4

I have never been to Case but I have seen photos of the stadium and I agree that it is a cool looking setup that I like a lot.  That is I never knew that about the dorm rooms or the Wyant center.  That is neat.  Thank you for sharing.

Quote from: CNU85 on August 25, 2023, 09:25:37 AM

I'm going to steal this and post it over on the NJAC board. Great idea you had!

Feel free too, I basically stole the idea from another board where they asked for ticket cost and average attendance.  I just decided to add a few more items to discuss.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: IC798891 on August 26, 2023, 08:43:24 AM
Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2023, 02:48:51 PM
In 1970, 10% of the population (age 25 and above) had a post h.s. degree. In 1990 it was 21.3%. In 2020 it was 37.5%. With so many people with degrees, jobs that didn't used to need a degree now require one to screen out applicants. That unnecessarily squeezes the job options for those unable or unwilling to go to college, usually adding the burden of student debt to people who shouldn't have needed to take it on.


1,000% this.

I went to Ithaca College, from 2001-2005, studying journalism, graduating magna cum laude. Fortunately, my father worked for them, and my parents could pay my room and board. Recognizing my luck there, but that's not really the point. This is:

I worked in journalism and I now work in college communications for IC as their assistant director of news strategy and operations.

My wife graduated from DeSales University, and studied film. She, by her own admission, got poor grades in college. She has taken the following career path:

Phon sales job for IBM --- Administrative Assistant and Community relations coordinator at that local non-profit --- Marketing coordinator at the non-profit --- Operations and external relations coordinator for the School of Humanities and Sciences at IC --- Communications Coordinator at Cornell Law School --- Communications Coordinator for Cornell School of Engineering

She has never used her degree. That's not to say she hasn't used her college education, and the various skills she developed during her time there. But the degree itself? Nope. EXCEPT, as jknezek says, places just require degrees to screen people

Not only do we both work in Communications at the college/university level, she has the better job. She makes a higher salary, she has better insurance, the better retirement, better annual raises.

And honestly, there's nothing about her career path she needed her degree for, or really any degree. She's incredibly smart and hard-working, and she worked her way up the ladder. I did things the way we're increasingly told is the "right way". And we both ended up in the same spot.

The shift that needs to happen is on the employer side. Stop requiring degrees. Let people develop skills in the jobs they have.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on August 28, 2023, 07:47:05 PM
In looking at the USDE College Scorecard data one piece of data that stood out to me was Bethany's graduation rate. Most non-Case CMU schools had graduation rates in the 70%+ range. Bethany's was 38%. That churn rate has to be a very costly issue.

My sons and I may go to W&J Homecoming this year. Nice of them to humor the old man.

Received the following from W&J's president today.


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"Dear W&J Alumni & Friends,

The campus sprang to life last week as we welcomed the Class of 2027 and marked the second consecutive year of enrollment growth. Our new students bring a variety of unique experiences, and we can't wait to see all they accomplish at W&J. They join us from 16 states, the District of Columbia, and nine countries. One-quarter of the class is first-generation college students. More than 100 students have been active community volunteers, 52 are musicians, and nearly 50 percent plan to participate in athletics. The class is also more racially and ethnically diverse than any previous W&J class.

We welcomed our new students with a week of exciting orientation activities culminating with a beautiful Matriculation ceremony in the Ross Family Recreation Center, followed by the opportunity for each student to "Cross the Seal" in Old Main. We also began the year with a record number of new academic programs. Over the last two years, the faculty have developed 27 innovative areas of study ranging from Sports Economics to Conservation Biology to Nonprofit Management. In addition, the College's recently-announced Bachelor of Science in Nursing is attracting great interest from prospective students who hope to join the initial class in fall 2024.

Finally, I am proud to share that W&J was recognized three times in the last week in national rankings based on quality and affordability. College Raptor placed W&J in the top 25 colleges and universities nationwide on its annual list of "Most Affordable Hidden Gem Colleges for The Middle Class." The ranking considers factors including graduation rates, median test scores for entering first-year students, student/faculty ratio, and affordability.

W&J was also recognized in the top tier of Third Way's national ranking of "institutions that are fulfilling higher education's purpose of promoting economic mobility for their students." Out of more than 100 private institutions in Pennsylvania, we were among only six to receive this recognition. These rankings reflect our commitment to offering an education of unsurpassed quality at a price families can afford. And just this morning, Washington Monthly published its annual college guide ranking W&J among the Top 10 liberal arts institutions nationwide in "Earnings Performance" of graduates, yet another indicator of the economic mobility made possible by this College.

We are able to provide an outstanding return on investment thanks to the alumni and friends who generously support today's students with gifts to scholarships, academic programs, athletics, the W&J Fund, and more. Indeed, the College has received more philanthropic support in the last year than at any time in the last decade, ensuring that we are financially strong and able to make college affordable while continuing to invest strategically in new programs that keep W&J at the forefront of undergraduate education."


.......And next week it is football. Go Presidents!

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on August 29, 2023, 02:09:29 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 11, 2023, 07:19:31 PM
In all the years D3boards has been in existence  I don't recall anyone from GCC (or most of the other PAC schools) posting here. As Pat will know in the early days there was lots of "smack" going on with players and assistant coaches posting. As I understand it Head coaches got involved and basically shut down any players and coaches from posting. Lots of forums on here are very active, but this one is now some old guys from Case, and old guys Bob  Gregg (sorry Bob) and I from W&J (yes, there was the recent grad from CMU but he has moved on). The coaches were right to keep their people from posting here  (certainly nothing to gain)but this is certainly a much more boring thread than others unless  there is a D3 wide topic like our current discussion that draws comment/debate. Why are the other members of the conference not participating? Oh, there was also a Thomas More alum but he is gone. Pat, (or any one else) any data/ thoughts you can share?

I follow Thiel College Football very closely... Ironically I'm also a Mount Union alum, so I've been following both ends of the d3 football success spectrum for the last several years.

I'll try to post more regularly here to diversify our PAC engagement lol.

I'm optimistic about the Tomcats this year, I've heard good things  about our offensive line and new assistant coaching personnel in that department. Need to build a program from the LOS out, so hopefully we'll see improved line play this year. Players have also had 1 year to adjust to the new coaching staffs schemes and playbook.

CWRU as our home opener on Saturday is a tough task, 1% win chance according to Massey Ratings. However JCU reportedly beat them pretty handily in a scrimmage (according to the OAC board) which I'm hoping indicates a down CWRU team more than a great JCU team.

Thiel went from 3-7 in 2003 to 11-1 (with a playoff win) in 2005. Hoping we're at the cusp of that type of turn around. At the very least I hope we start making GCC a little nervous about the Mercer County Cup game again.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on August 29, 2023, 05:22:48 PM
CWRU is going to need to break in a new QB.

Everything depends on how the new field general pans out.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HansenRatings on August 30, 2023, 11:29:22 AM
Playoff projections for the season using my model's preseason ratings:

(https://i.imgur.com/VbSu11x.png)

As a note, I think my Pool C projections may be getting thrown for a loop with the lack of non-conference games, but I haven't had time to troubleshoot

You can look at other conferences on my website: https://hansenratings.github.io/ (https://hansenratings.github.io/).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 02, 2023, 11:30:22 AM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on August 29, 2023, 05:22:48 PM
CWRU is going to need to break in a new QB.

Everything depends on how the new field general pans out.

I'm more concerned about the two new OTs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 06, 2023, 05:53:33 PM
What is everyone's thoughts after week one?  Who are the contenders and who are the pretenders? 

My Power Rankings after week 1

1) CMU
2) W&J
3)Grove City
4) Case
5) Allegheny
6) Westminster
7) Waynesburg
8) Thiel
9) Bethany
10) Geneva
11) SVC

ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

Grove City ATTENDANCE: 5400
Geneva ATTENDANCE: 5155
St Vincent ATTENDANCE: 1330
Thiel ATTENDANCE: 846
Waynesburg ATTENDANCE: 455

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on September 08, 2023, 11:18:08 AM
Quote from: mikefln on September 06, 2023, 05:53:33 PM
What is everyone's thoughts after week one?  Who are the contenders and who are the pretenders? 

My Power Rankings after week 1

1) CMU
2) W&J
3)Grove City
4) Case
5) Allegheny
6) Westminster
7) Waynesburg
8) Thiel
9) Bethany
10) Geneva
11) SVC

ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

Grove City ATTENDANCE: 5400
Geneva ATTENDANCE: 5155
St Vincent ATTENDANCE: 1330
Thiel ATTENDANCE: 846
Waynesburg ATTENDANCE: 455

I'll post a power ranking later. As a Thiel fan, I'm hoping our defensive performance was more than a 1 game fluke, I was really impressed.

Also I think Thiel attendance was higher than 846, the stands were pretty full and capacity is 1400.

For those in the ytown metro area, Thiel vs Westminster will be televised on WKBN this week
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 11, 2023, 11:14:13 AM
WRMUAlum I took the attendance straight from the box scores found on the official PAC website.  I do not know what else to use, but glad it was better than what I wrote.  Maybe that is the paid attendance? 

My Power Rankings after week 2

1) CMU -Until they get beat, the returning champs get the top spot.
2) W&J- Scoring a lot of points and not giving up many
3) Grove City- 2-0 with a road win against a scrappy Waynesburg team
4) Case- off this past week
5) Westminster- I could see them pushing Case for the 4th spot soon.
6)  Geneva- Bounced back nicely.  number 6-8 could be anyone of the 3 in any order.  But Geneva beat Allegheny who beat Waynesburg so it is what it is until there is more information. 
7) Allegheny- Can't put them past Geneva who they just lost to
8) Waynesburg-2 loses but they seem scrapy.  Barley lost to Allegheny and put up a hell of a fight against who I consider the clear 3rd best team in this conference.
9) Thiel Slight edge over Bethany for now.
10)  Bethany- performed better than SVC against W&J
11) SVC- Have yet to score a touchdown.  Good news is they played the 2 best teams in the PAC already.

ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

Allegheny Attendance: 2281
Westminster Attendance: 1727
Carnegie Mellon Attendance: 1237
Bethany Attendance: 1096
Waynesburgh Attendance: 895

2023 Total attendance

Allegheny- 2281 (1 game)
Bethany- 1096 (1 game)
Carnegie Mellon- 1237 (1 game)
Case Western Reserve- 0 (0 game)
Geneva- 5155 (1 game)
Grove City-  5400 (1 game)
St. Vincent- 1330 (1 game)
Theil- 846 (1 game)
W&J- 0 (0 games)
Waynesburg- 1350 (2 games)
Westminster- 1727 (1 game)


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 11, 2023, 11:16:49 AM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 11, 2023, 07:19:31 PM
In all the years D3boards has been in existence  I don't recall anyone from GCC (or most of the other PAC schools) posting here. As Pat will know in the early days there was lots of "smack" going on with players and assistant coaches posting. As I understand it Head coaches got involved and basically shut down any players and coaches from posting. Lots of forums on here are very active, but this one is now some old guys from Case, and old guys Bob  Gregg (sorry Bob) and I from W&J (yes, there was the recent grad from CMU but he has moved on). The coaches were right to keep their people from posting here  (certainly nothing to gain)but this is certainly a much more boring thread than others unless  there is a D3 wide topic like our current discussion that draws comment/debate. Why are the other members of the conference not participating? Oh, there was also a Thomas More alum but he is gone. Pat, (or any one else) any data/ thoughts you can share?

Wait, is this me?!?!  I haven't totally moved on! I just have two little kids (5 & 3) that limit my time for fun, like posting on D3boards.com. 

But I was able to watch the live stream of CMU's opener vs. Geneva and then catch the first quarter or so of the home opener vs. St Vincent live (before the kids got too tired and we had to bail).  Tartans look about as expected IMO - the defense is really superb, the offense good enough to get the job done but unspectacular.  They do have a bell cow running back (Vasiliadis) with a nice change of pace playmaker (Bouma) and a few receivers that have made some plays; it's not a bad offense, and considering the quality of the defense I expect them to compliment each other quite well.  But I wouldn't expect this offense to win many 49-42 shootouts; luckily, I don't think they will have to.

CMU fun fact of the first two weeks from my standpoint is the presence of the "one yard touchdown specialist" Joey McGinnis IV, a sophomore quarterback who the Tartans bring in near the goal line.  Last year: 7 rushes, 8 yards, 5 touchdowns.  This year through 2 weeks: 4 rushes, 5 yards, 4 touchdowns.  He's not especially big - just seems to have good vision and a feel for finding the right crease.  9 conversions on 11 attempts from the 1-2 yard line is pretty good, and a useful weapon to have in your pocket - a guaranteed score from the 1-yard line is a valuable skill if you have an offense that's good at getting there!

There are some really interesting posts on the past couple of pages about the direction of college(s) in general, which I won't touch, and then a few about the game-day atmosphere and support at the various programs.  I have a few thoughts on this...

As a lover of college football, I have tried to experience it in all its forms (and continue doing so).  My wife & I went to see Duquesne at West Virginia this weekend (we live about 10 miles south of Pittsburgh, which puts us about an hour north of Morgantown...I said I really just wanted to go see a WVU game to see what it was like).  WVU was an interesting place to see a game and (considering that it was a nonconference "paycheck" game) the crowd was big, loud, and enthusiastic...but then again, there are no major professional sports in West Virginia so the Mountaineers are the team for everyone in the state, practically. 

Going back a few laps, my wife taught at Central Michigan for two years and we went to several games.  They drew decent crowds (especially earlier in the season on Saturdays when the weather was decent...rather less so in November or the wacky weeknight games), but ultimately their fanbase was always going to be kind of an odd niche - mostly alums that still lived in the area.  Central was only an hour from Lansing (Michigan State) and two hours from Ann Arbor (UM) so realistically not a lot of people were just going to grow up being Central Michigan fans - given the choice between checking out a Michigan State game and Central Michigan game, I suspect most would gravitate towards Michigan State.  Central's attendance was probably tied to whether Michigan or Michigan State had a big game that weekend - I suspect that it was lower if UM or MSU had a big game because some people would rather stay at home or go out to a bar and watch that vs. going to the Central game.

How does this tie into Division III ball and the PAC schools?  I think you have to consider what the "other options" are in a given area and just be kind of realistic.  Schools like Carnegie Mellon and Case Western are not going to develop many of "their own" fans no matter what administration or athletic department does.  They're located in cities that have other college / professional teams who will always be the primary rooting interest for locals seeking a big football game, and...deep breath, acknowledging some academic elitism here...the student body is generally one that a) comes from all over the country/world, b) goes back out all over the country/world when they graduate, and c) is not one comprised of people who consider themselves particularly big football fans (as evidenced by the fact that every single year, surprised freshmen exclaim "I didn't even know we had a football team" despite presumably having toured a campus which has a football field with a scoreboard and stands right in the middle of it).  Over 2 decades of playing and attending CMU games, student interest has typically been something ever-so-slightly greater than zero, but it's quite low - I'd guess only a few hundred students attend any given game (at a school with enrollment approaching 7,000 undergraduates). 

The stands are usually about half-full when the weather is decent, with some other folks milling around the edges of the stadium or watching from the pavilion on the other side.  There's usually a tailgate on the roof of the parking garage, which is almost always a few dozen parents of current players plus some alums and a few parents of alums that happen to be local.  The crowd is basically that group plus whatever students show up for the game (and, being college students, they're often late arrivers who are just there to hang out with friends, not really a rowdy football crowd).  It's interesting - CMU is located in a fairly residential area - but there aren't many local residents who will wake up and say "You know, we should go check out the Carnegie Mellon football game today!"  I'm one of the only football alums from my graduating class that still lives nearby (not just local, like in the city proper, but within anything resembling driving distance to attend a football game).  I occasionally meet younger alums when I go to games; honestly the most common alums to see at games are guys who are only 1-2 years out of school who still know guys on the team, and maybe are still local because they're going to grad school or got a job in the area.  As for non-football alums, forget it.

IMO schools like Geneva, Grove City, and W&J might do better in this regard because they're located in smaller towns where the college itself is a relatively bigger part of how the area identifies, even being located in the greater Pittsburgh region (probably with lots of Steeler fans), some folks will make that the Saturday event.  If I lived in Beaver Falls, I'd probably go to some Geneva games.

(post below is what inspired some of these thoughts...)

Quote from: mikefln on August 14, 2023, 10:45:33 AM
As far as trying to get more interest on this board, did anyone ever talk to any of the schools ADs or SIDs to see if they would promote this board at the games?  Speaking of which, how are the atmosphere at most schools in the PAC?  From what I can tell, it is fairly lackluster outside of a few schools and a few big game/events (ie homecoming).  There are no big rivalries, bands, tailgating, or gameday traditions that get the juices flowing.  Most schools in the PAC do not have any of that college pageantry to them.  It is like they have a team and therefore a game just because.  My nephew graduated from John Carroll a couple years ago where he played on the team.  They always had good attendance, tailgating, and college pageantry but when they played Mount Union or Baldwin Wallace everything was turned up a few notches.  I know D3 will not be confused with D1, but these PAC schools should promote better and build better environments to give people reason to want to go to the game as much as some of those JCU fans do.  That is an attainable level to reach.  From the outside looking in, it appears only Geneva, W&J and Case and maybe Westminster is at least respectable in trying to have a good college gameday atmosphere.   But like I said, it seems like a lot of PAC schools have teams just to have teams.  YMMV

As for the opening weeks of this PAC season:

I think the league itself has quietly moved up a few notches in the tiers of Division III.  Nobody will confuse it for the WIAC, but I think it used to be viewed as a very middling conference (for a few years really very much W&J / Thomas More lording over a crowd of peasants) and now I'd probably rank it in the top third or so.  CMU's playoff performance last year (a blowout win vs. the NCAC champ, a league that I think used to be about on par with the PAC, and then an incredibly sterling effort against the eventual national champions...I think CMU was the only team to lead North Central the entire season, and it was still 14-7 into the fourth quarter) may have opened some eyes. 

Consider that CMU did have to labor to a few of their league wins:

- one-score win against Grove City where CMU was outgained by 200 yards
- a 10-0 win against Westminster where CMU had no offensive touchdowns and only 105 yards of offense
- a 27-20 win against Waynesburg, winning score with 1 minute to go
- a 12-7 win against W&J, again with no offensive touchdowns
- a 20-7 win against Case Western that was 14-7 into the fourth quarter

I think some of that was strategic, sure.  CMU's defense is very strong and the coaching staff probably doesn't take big risks on offense once they get a lead.  But, still: that's five separate teams from last year who absolutely could have beaten CMU with a few bounces the other way.  Then you look at some other results - CMU had two other quality nonconference wins vs Whitworth and RPI (both decent teams from decent conferences); W&J beat John Carroll to start the season (JCU's only other loss was 34-28 against Mount Union!) and Hobart to end it in an ECAC game; Westminster played a respectably tough game against eventual quarterfinalist Delaware Valley (score was 13-8 into the fourth quarter) and lost close ones to CMU and W&J; Grove City lost competitive games to the aforementioned three teams and closed the season with an ECAC bowl win; Case lost one-point games to Grove City and Westminster.  I think you can argue that there were five legitimately "quality" teams in the PAC last year (CMU, W&J, GCC, Westminster, Case).  If you look around the nation, a lot of D3 conferences (below the WIAC/MIAC elite level tier) are either a) 1-2 good teams far separated from everyone else or b) a jumbled mess of flawed teams (which can be fun to follow and I actually kind of like, but you know none of them are threats to win a playoff game).  There really aren't too many conferences (more than zero, but probably less than 10) that can offer five quality teams.

Through two weeks...it pretty much looks like those five again.  I don't really expect anyone other than those 5 to contend for a league title, but you always want to see growth/competitiveness up and down the league, so I am interested to see if Thiel can parlay two moderately competitive results of the first two weeks into a few wins against their peers lower down the pecking order. 

Someone always has to finish last, but one of the things I always look for in a league is that the teams who end the year at the bottom are at least playing competitive games against all but the very best team(s) in the league.  I don't expect the last-place team in the OAC to be giving Mount Union much of a sweat, but are they at least scoring touchdowns and in-the-game with their peers?  I worry when a team falls to the level of getting shut out more often than not, or seemingly losing every game by scores like 48-7.  Unfortunately, Thiel has been living down there for a few years.

Quote from: WRMUalum13 on August 29, 2023, 02:09:29 PM
I follow Thiel College Football very closely... Ironically I'm also a Mount Union alum, so I've been following both ends of the d3 football success spectrum for the last several years.

I'll try to post more regularly here to diversify our PAC engagement lol.

I'm optimistic about the Tomcats this year, I've heard good things  about our offensive line and new assistant coaching personnel in that department. Need to build a program from the LOS out, so hopefully we'll see improved line play this year. Players have also had 1 year to adjust to the new coaching staffs schemes and playbook.

CWRU as our home opener on Saturday is a tough task, 1% win chance according to Massey Ratings. However JCU reportedly beat them pretty handily in a scrimmage (according to the OAC board) which I'm hoping indicates a down CWRU team more than a great JCU team.

Thiel went from 3-7 in 2003 to 11-1 (with a playoff win) in 2005. Hoping we're at the cusp of that type of turn around. At the very least I hope we start making GCC a little nervous about the Mercer County Cup game again.

I played against that 2005 Thiel team (we lost 50-48 in triple overtime...and then they beat Johns Hopkins in the playoffs the next week) and the 2006 team that was also quite competitive.  In 2005 they came to our place 9-0 looking to finish an unbeaten season with us at 5-4 and it turned into a classic; they returned the favor in 2006 as we came in 9-0 with Thiel at 5-4; we had to sweat out a 14-7 win in the rain that was not over until we recovered an onside kick with about 2 minutes to play.  Seems like they fell off pretty hard the next year, and have never gotten back off the mat since then.  I'm not expecting everyone to contend for conference titles, but from 2010 onwards Thiel has almost as many 0-10's as they have seasons with a win.  So even if the full "last to first" turnaround isn't in the cards, I think "competitive" results against Westminster and Case (two of the league's better teams) in the first two weeks are a very encouraging sign.  They should have a chance against Bethany this weekend.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 11, 2023, 11:49:38 AM
Quote from: mikefln on September 11, 2023, 11:14:13 AM
My Power Rankings after week 2

1) CMU -Until they get beat, the returning champs get the top spot.
2) W&J- Scoring a lot of points and not giving up many
3) Grove City- 2-0 with a road win against a scrappy Waynesburg team
4) Case- off this past week
5) Westminster- I could see them pushing Case for the 4th spot soon.
6)  Geneva- Bounced back nicely.  number 6-8 could be anyone of the 3 in any order.  But Geneva beat Allegheny who beat Waynesburg so it is what it is until there is more information. 
7) Allegheny- Can't put them past Geneva who they just lost to
8) Waynesburg-2 loses but they seem scrapy.  Barley lost to Allegheny and put up a hell of a fight against who I consider the clear 3rd best team in this conference.
9) Thiel Slight edge over Bethany for now.
10)  Bethany- performed better than SVC against W&J
11) SVC- Have yet to score a touchdown.  Good news is they played the 2 best teams in the PAC already.

I wouldd rank'em the same way this week.

As a random aside...since I was rambling a little bit about the state of various programs in the conference...Geneva sort of puzzles me.  Whenever I see them play, I think they run that option offense pretty well, and I can't figure out why they are perpetually hovering around 3-7 and in the lower half of the standings.  They have never fully"bottomed out" like Thiel / Bethany / Allegheny have, but they also haven't even managed a 5-5 season since 2013.  Even in 2017 & 2018, they had a real stud of a running back - and went 3-7 and 2-8 in those two seasons.  Like I said...I don't expect everyone to be a league title contender every year, but they're one that has been consistently living in the bottom half of the league for a decade and (when I see them play) am genuinely surprised they haven't burbled up to 6 or 7 wins even once in the last decade.

This is an incomplete picture, of course, but it surprises me because (as others mentioned) among the PAC schools that I have played at or been to...they seemed to have one of the more enthusiastic crowds / game day experiences!  I remember attending a game there once in 2015 & being amazed at the crowd size for a random, not-particularly-big-time Division III game (I just looked it up - attendance that day was reported as 6127, and that matches my memory).  Just weird to me that they've been sitting in the bottom half of the league without even a single 6-win season for a decade.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 11, 2023, 08:52:43 PM
Nice to see you back ExTartan!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 11, 2023, 09:29:54 PM
ExTartan, nice writeup.

Agreed on Thiel, who has seemingly been the biggest surprise as it relates to preseason projections.  Although being 0-2, to be 2-3 scores away for both Westminster and Case Western Reserve is certainly worth taking a second look.   That Bethany game will be the first real litmus test to see if they have in fact turned the corner.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 13, 2023, 05:19:18 PM
Great stuff Ex Tartan

That is awesome information/Insite you brought there.  A few things you brought up I would love to comment.

I certainly agree about the city schools in pro towns compared to more rural/isolated schools.  That is even true in D1.  Look at Pitt, they have a much harder time getting attendance in a football crazed city compared to the PSU/OSU/WVU/Michigan's of the world.  If Pitt is not playing WVU/PSU/ND or undefeated playing against a top ranked team (think 2003 against VT) there is going to be 45,000 fans at that game at most.  Those schools I mentioned are coming close to sell out against little sister of the poor.  This holds true for all Urban schools in Pro towns like Boston College, UCLA, Washington, Minnesota, even Miami and USC.  So it does not surprise me that it also holds even more true for D3 schools.

The next thing I want to comment on is Geneva.  IMO they are the biggest enigma in the PAC.  Genva as you mentioned has great support from their community.  I do not understand how they are satisfied with the current results.  Last time since they were .500 was 10 years ago in 2013.  Last winning record was in 2009 where I may be mistaken but was the last year, they had scholarship players on their roster. Which goes to my next point.  When I was in HS in the 90's they were always in the NAIA playoffs, then towards the end of their NAIA they were not elite and making playoffs, but respectable with winning seasons minus a year here and there.  How do you go from being respectable to not having a winning season in 13 seasons and still keep the same head coach?  I understand this is not D1 where it is win or else.  But to tolerate 13 years of this, at any level is mindboggling to me.  I do not know their situation (I know it is a close-knit religious community), but I think that program needs new blood to say the least.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on September 13, 2023, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 11, 2023, 09:29:54 PM
ExTartan, nice writeup.

Agreed on Thiel, who has seemingly been the biggest surprise as it relates to preseason projections.  Although being 0-2, to be 2-3 scores away for both Westminster and Case Western Reserve is certainly worth taking a second look.   That Bethany game will be the first real litmus test to see if they have in fact turned the corner.

I've followed Thiel since 2021, and  the biggest difference between this year's team and past squads is their ages. This year all the starters except 1 or 2 are upperclassmen where in 2021 most of the starters where freshmen and sophomores. From what I've heard that's been the major issue in recent years. It's very difficult to win with 18-19-year-olds in college football.

I've been very impressed with the coaching staff's ability to retain players.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 16, 2023, 12:42:11 PM
A couple of cliches come to mind for the Spartans. The positive one is that teams improve most between game one and game two. Is that even more likely if the is an open date between the two? The other is, when you have two QBs, you have none.

Against Thiel, both QBs were sub par. Fromberg really showed nothing, while Kipp had some positives, two long runs and two TD passed, but had two ints.

Since both QBs had to scramble often and the team only averaged 3.2 yds/rush, the OL has to bear some of the responsibility. Due to an injury to Thivener, three SO linemen made their first ever starts. Thivener is shown as starting in the Game Notes, so that should help as hopefully two weeks of practice will.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 16, 2023, 03:10:10 PM
I do not want to jinx it for Thiel, but they are currently up in the 4th ... with a 16 to 5 first down differential stat!

https://thielathletics.com/sidearmstats/football/summary;team=away
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 16, 2023, 05:02:35 PM
W&J scorched Westminster today 49-3. As the score suggests W&J dominated both sides of the ball with a well balanced offense and a swarming defense. In the first three games they have outscored their opponents 141-10.
Still have CWRU, CMU and Grove City left, but Sirianni and his staff have this machine running on all cylinders
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 16, 2023, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 16, 2023, 03:10:10 PM
I do not want to jinx it for Thiel, but they are currently up in the 4th ... with a 16 to 5 first down differential stat!

https://thielathletics.com/sidearmstats/football/summary;team=away

Thiel got the W 22-14. Bethany was the only W they had last season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on September 17, 2023, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 16, 2023, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: E.115 on September 16, 2023, 03:10:10 PM
I do not want to jinx it for Thiel, but they are currently up in the 4th ... with a 16 to 5 first down differential stat!

https://thielathletics.com/sidearmstats/football/summary;team=away

Thiel got the W 22-14. Bethany was the only W they had last season.

Our new coach now has more Ws at Thiel in his first two seasons than the previous 4 combined. Big test will be to see if we can beat an opponent besides Bethany. The Defense is probably above average for our conference but we just can't seem to get much going on offense.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 18, 2023, 10:47:00 AM
Exciting week of football.  PAC Games that I watched On Demand were W&J vs Westminster and Allegheny vs St Vincent. I watched a few D1 games and Slippery Rock on demand also.  Still deciding what I watched with Pitt vs WVU.  I feel confident in saying that every PAC QB could have done better than Phil did for Pitt.  Not sure how someone so talented and good can be so bad within 2 seasons. 

Anyways the focus of the week needs to be on Special Teams. Westminster got behind due to special teams.  Not saying they would have been able to handle W&J otherwise, but it was Special Teams that started the downward spiral.  There were also big Special Team plays in that St Vincent and in the PSAC world the Slippery Rock game also.  Coaches need to put more focus there.  I have no sympathy for coaches who do not put the needed focus there.

My Power Rankings after week 3 -A few minor changes.

1) CMU - Still at the top, 1st test of the season this coming week.
2) W&J- Handled business against a solid Westminster team.
3) Grove City- They are making this a 3-team race. Huge game for them this week against CMU
4) Case- Close lost to a team who is clearly in the top 3 in the conference.
5) Westminster- A tough loss.  I think they are better than the score showed. 
6)  Geneva- Off this week.
7) Allegheny- Lost to Theil which is worse than any of Waynesburg's loses but they beat Waynesburg and Waynesburg is winless.
8) Waynesburg- Despite being winless, they lost to 2 of the 3 best teams and that Allegheny game was down to the wire.  They are scrappy and I think they will be a middle of the pack team when it is all said and done. This week will tell a lot about them.
9) SVC- A nice win against a decent opponent in a hard-fought game.
10) Thiel- Nice win against Bethany
11)  Bethany- Tough season so far and I do not see them getting more than 1 win this season.

ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

W&J Attendance: 3163
St Vincent Attendance: 1920
Carnegie Mellon Attendance: 913
Theil Attendance: 607
Case Western Reserve Attendance: 0 not sure why this is the reported number.

2023 Total attendance

Allegheny- 2281 (1 game)
Bethany- 1096 (1 game)
Carnegie Mellon- 2150 (2 game)
Case Western Reserve- 0 (1 game)
Geneva- 5155 (1 game)
Grove City- 5400 (1 game)
St. Vincent- 3250 (2 game)
Theil- 1453 (2 game)
W&J- 3163 (1 games)
Waynesburg- 1350 (2 games)
Westminster- 1727 (1 game)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on September 18, 2023, 11:21:29 AM
Quote from: mikefln on September 18, 2023, 10:47:00 AM
Exciting week of football.  PAC Games that I watched On Demand were W&J vs Westminster and Allegheny vs St Vincent. I watched a few D1 games and Slippery Rock on demand also.  Still deciding what I watched with Pitt vs WVU.  I feel confident in saying that every PAC QB could have done better than Phil did for Pitt.  Not sure how someone so talented and good can be so bad within 2 seasons. 

Anyways the focus of the week needs to be on Special Teams. Westminster got behind due to special teams.  Not saying they would have been able to handle W&J otherwise, but it was Special Teams that started the downward spiral.  There were also big Special Team plays in that St Vincent and in the PSAC world the Slippery Rock game also.  Coaches need to put more focus there.  I have no sympathy for coaches who do not put the needed focus there.

My Power Rankings after week 3 -A few minor changes.

1) CMU - Still at the top, 1st test of the season this coming week.
2) W&J- Handled business against a solid Westminster team.
3) Grove City- They are making this a 3-team race. Huge game for them this week against CMU
4) Case- Close lost to a team who is clearly in the top 3 in the conference.
5) Westminster- A tough loss.  I think they are better than the score showed. 
6)  Geneva- Off this week.
7) Allegheny- Lost to Theil which is worse than any of Waynesburg's loses but they beat Waynesburg and Waynesburg is winless.
8) Waynesburg- Despite being winless, they lost to 2 of the 3 best teams and that Allegheny game was down to the wire.  They are scrappy and I think they will be a middle of the pack team when it is all said and done. This week will tell a lot about them.
9) SVC- A nice win against a decent opponent in a hard-fought game.
10) Thiel- Nice win against Bethany
11)  Bethany- Tough season so far and I do not see them getting more than 1 win this season.

ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

W&J Attendance: 3163
St Vincent Attendance: 1920
Carnegie Mellon Attendance: 913
Theil Attendance: 607
Case Western Reserve Attendance: 0 not sure why this is the reported number.

2023 Total attendance

Allegheny- 2281 (1 game)
Bethany- 1096 (1 game)
Carnegie Mellon- 2150 (2 game)
Case Western Reserve- 0 (1 game)
Geneva- 5155 (1 game)
Grove City- 5400 (1 game)
St. Vincent- 3250 (2 game)
Theil- 1453 (2 game)
W&J- 3163 (1 games)
Waynesburg- 1350 (2 games)
Westminster- 1727 (1 game)

FYI Thiel hasn't played Allegheny yet.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 18, 2023, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on September 18, 2023, 11:21:29 AM


FYI Thiel hasn't played Allegheny yet.

I meant to say SVC, my bad
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 19, 2023, 07:24:26 PM
I don't see GCC as a clear #3. The CWRU game was tied at the end of regulation.

I see big 2, middle 3, and bottom 6.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2023, 09:03:08 PM
Happy for Thiel.  Hope they can nab another one or two this year.

Surprised by the big margin in W&J - Westminster game. The Presidents mean business.

Tartans have an excellent defense but I'd still like to see more consistency from the offense. Their defense will keep them in games against anyone, and I mean anyone, but I do worry about offense having enough juice to pull away from better teams.

CMU's Joey McGinnis IV continues his incredible streak as the "1 yard touchdown" specialist: 5 rushes, 6 yards, 5 touchdowns this season. Hope I haven't jinxed him by saying this...dating to last season he has 12 rushes for 14 yards and 10 touchdowns.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 20, 2023, 07:46:10 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2023, 07:24:26 PM
I don't see GCC as a clear #3. The CWRU game was tied at the end of regulation.

I see big 2, middle 3, and bottom 6.

We will find out this Saturday if GCC are contenders or pretenders.  If they win or lose within 7, I will say they are contenders, if they lose by 2 or more TDs they are pretenders.  CWRU is a solid program and GCC played them away.  Finding a way to win is what good teams are supposed to do, so I do not fault them for going into OT against them.  If it was SVC/Thiel/Bethany, then I would agree with you.  Hell, South Florida just hung with Bama for 3 Qtrs and a final score of 17-3, I bet there is way more talent and coaching disparity between Bama and S FL then there is between the top 8 programs in the PAC. 

I guess I am just arguing schematics with you but I see it more like:

The Big 2, 1 TBD of Big 3 status or 3rd upper middle, 2 upper middle, 3 lower middle, then the bottom 3.

A lot of football left this season to work itself out, we never know who catches fire and who stops performing.  It will be fun see where everyone is when the dust settles.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 20, 2023, 07:50:41 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2023, 09:03:08 PM


Surprised by the big margin in W&J - Westminster game. The Presidents mean business.

W&J was clearly the better team, but if you watched the game, they benefited by Westminster's bad special teams play early on in the game.  W&J would have won but it would not have been a blowout if the Titans eliminated those ST mistakes.   

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 19, 2023, 09:03:08 PM
CMU's Joey McGinnis IV continues his incredible streak as the "1 yard touchdown" specialist: 5 rushes, 6 yards, 5 touchdowns this season. Hope I haven't jinxed him by saying this...dating to last season he has 12 rushes for 14 yards and 10 touchdowns.

Those are 2 awesome stats. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 21, 2023, 11:20:33 AM
One thing that has not been mentioned, CWRU lost its Kent State-transfer, and local Mentor boy, QB Ian Kipp in the first quarter to a broken foot.  Like Nick Chubb...out for the season : (

https://www.news-herald.com/2023/09/16/case-western-reserve-loses-to-grove-city-qb-ian-kipp-breaks-foot-and-will-miss-the-season/

In Fromberg we trust.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 22, 2023, 10:39:02 PM
Quote from: mikefln on September 20, 2023, 07:46:10 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2023, 07:24:26 PM
I don't see GCC as a clear #3. The CWRU game was tied at the end of regulation.

I see big 2, middle 3, and bottom 6.

We will find out this Saturday if GCC are contenders or pretenders.  If they win or lose within 7, I will say they are contenders, if they lose by 2 or more TDs they are pretenders.  CWRU is a solid program and GCC played them away.  Finding a way to win is what good teams are supposed to do, so I do not fault them for going into OT against them.  If it was SVC/Thiel/Bethany, then I would agree with you.  Hell, South Florida just hung with Bama for 3 Qtrs and a final score of 17-3, I bet there is way more talent and coaching disparity between Bama and S FL then there is between the top 8 programs in the PAC. 

I guess I am just arguing schematics with you but I see it more like:

The Big 2, 1 TBD of Big 3 status or 3rd upper middle, 2 upper middle, 3 lower middle, then the bottom 3.

A lot of football left this season to work itself out, we never know who catches fire and who stops performing.  It will be fun see where everyone is when the dust settles.

Of course I hope CMU wins 62-3, but until then count me firmly in Grove City are contenders camp.  GCC has been very solid the last five years and has played several close ones with the other top dogs in the league.  Heck, Grove City beat CMU in 2021 when CMU was the conference champ.  Really amazing how quickly DiDonato turned that program around and has placed them on firm footing.  If you look at Grove City 2018-2022, it looks a lot like CMU's rise that started in 2015.  Once you're firmly entrenched with winning seasons every year and 7-8 wins being the baseline, it's just a matter of whether you can take that final step to the top. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 23, 2023, 08:29:58 AM
Quote from: E.115 on September 21, 2023, 11:20:33 AM
One thing that has not been mentioned, CWRU lost its Kent State-transfer, and local Mentor boy, QB Ian Kipp in the first quarter to a broken foot.  Like Nick Chubb...out for the season : (

https://www.news-herald.com/2023/09/16/case-western-reserve-loses-to-grove-city-qb-ian-kipp-breaks-foot-and-will-miss-the-season/

In Fromberg we trust.

Will Kipp be "Pipped"?

The article explains why FY Tyler Fikis is now listed as backup. Aaron Fillips (not Phiilips) tore an ACL in the spring. Perhaps that injury is what prompted Fromberg to return to CWRU instead of transferring to TCNJ.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 23, 2023, 10:01:47 PM
Fikis ... what an impressive run towards the end by the backup QB!

Drive summary on his first snap:

CWR - Fikis,Tyler 38 yd run (Petrozzi,Gabriel kick), 1 plays, 38 yards, TOP 00:12
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 23, 2023, 10:53:47 PM
^ OK fine... Fromberg's TDs also impressive... :)

Fromberg's Five Touchdowns Lead Spartans to 42-7 Win over Geneva

https://athletics.case.edu/news/2023/9/23/football-frombergs-five-touchdowns-lead-spartans-to-42-7-win-over-geneva.aspx
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 25, 2023, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2023, 07:24:26 PM
I don't see GCC as a clear #3. The CWRU game was tied at the end of regulation.

I see big 2, middle 3, and bottom 6.

Well, it is the Big 3.  Great win by GCC, but no break for them as they travel to W&J.  Both GCC and W&J control their destiny, should be a great game.  I will give my power rankings later either tomorrow or Wednesday. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pokerplayer on September 25, 2023, 09:25:49 PM
Just a small FYI...W&J travels to Grove City.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 26, 2023, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: mikefln on September 25, 2023, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 19, 2023, 07:24:26 PM
I don't see GCC as a clear #3. The CWRU game was tied at the end of regulation.

I see big 2, middle 3, and bottom 6.

Well, it is the Big 3.  Great win by GCC, but no break for them as they travel to W&J.  Both GCC and W&J control their destiny, should be a great game.  I will give my power rankings later either tomorrow or Wednesday.

I suggest big 2, W&J and GCC. CMU stomped 3 bottom dwellers before losing to GCC by 7. CWRU lost to GCC by 3 in OT. There may be only one favorite after Saturday.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on September 27, 2023, 09:07:37 AM
My gut is that W&J is the clear #1 in the conference, with GCC, CMU, and CWRU all close together well behind W&J, and then everybody else, but I guess we'll know more after Saturday.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 28, 2023, 12:58:10 PM
That's my gut too, Jeff.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on September 28, 2023, 01:20:46 PM
My Power Rankings after week 4 -It's starting to get interesting at the top.

1) W&J- Had their way with Theil.  Huge game this week, they are 1 of 2 teams who still control their own destiny.
2) Grove City- Made a huge statement this week that they are one of the top dogs in this league.  The 2nd team in the PAC that still controls its own destiny,
3) CMU - Losing by 7 at a strong GCC is not the end of the world.  They need W&J to beat GCC and then they need to beat W&J.  At that point I do not know how tiebreakers work.
4) Case- A good team who I think is noticeably not as strong as the big 3, but capable to beat them too.
5) Westminster- Back in the win column.  I think they base the success of this season on if they can beat CWRU in 2 weeks. 
6) Allegheny- Not sure if they are in Case and Westminster level or if they are in Genva and Waynesburg level. They beat both Geneva and Waynesburg but they have the tough part of their schedule ahead of them.  They need to beat either Case or Westminster to me to put them in that tier.
Geneva- Got beat bad by Case.  They at least have a win so they are ahead of Waynesburg.
8) Waynesburg- I know they are still winless and 2 of the teams I rank lower have wins. Their schedule finally softens with the bottom 3 teams being Waynesburg's next 4 games.  I think they win all 3 of those games.  We will see.
9) SVC- Off this past week. 
10) Thiel- While they were blown out, they showed moxy.  Too bad their schedule worked out that they got their first win of the season only to go against a top dog in the conference.
11) Bethany- So heart and fight and was even up at one point against an ok Allegheny team.


New this week the tier system- basically where I see the separation between the strengths of the teams.  I actually think I may move to this instead of an actual power rank, since I do not get to see all the games.  I watch a couple a week and if I'm lucky, there might be highlights of another game or 2.

Tier 1- W&J, GCC, CMU
Tier 2- CWRU- Westminster
Tier 3- Allegheny, Geneva, and Waynesburg
Tier 4-  SVC, Theil, Bethany

ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

Grove City Attendance: 4800
CWRU Attendance: 1642
W&J Attendance: 1577
Waynesburg Attendance: 1145
Allegheny Attendance: 1114


2023 Total attendance

Allegheny- 3,395 (2 games)
Bethany- 1,096 (1 game)
Carnegie Mellon- 2,150 (2 games)
Case Western Reserve- 1,642 (2 games: they did not report their 1st game)
Geneva- 5,155 (1 game)
Grove City- 10,200 (3 games)
St. Vincent- 3,250 (2 games)
Theil- 1,453 (2 games)
W&J- 4,740 (2 games)
Waynesburg- 2,495 (3 games)
Westminster- 1,727 (1 game)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: dofo66JCU on September 28, 2023, 06:41:39 PM
Quote from: mikefln on September 28, 2023, 01:20:46 PM
My Power Rankings after week 4 -It's starting to get interesting at the top.

1) W&J- Had their way with Theil.  Huge game this week, they are 1 of 2 teams who still control their own destiny.
2) Grove City- Made a huge statement this week that they are one of the top dogs in this league.  The 2nd team in the PAC that still controls its own destiny,
3) CMU - Losing by 7 at a strong GCC is not the end of the world.  They need W&J to beat GCC and then they need to beat W&J.  At that point I do not know how tiebreakers work.
4) Case- A good team who I think is noticeably not as strong as the big 3, but capable to beat them too.
5) Westminster- Back in the win column.  I think they base the success of this season on if they can beat CWRU in 2 weeks. 
6) Allegheny- Not sure if they are in Case and Westminster level or if they are in Genva and Waynesburg level. They beat both Geneva and Waynesburg but they have the tough part of their schedule ahead of them.  They need to beat either Case or Westminster to me to put them in that tier.
Geneva- Got beat bad by Case.  They at least have a win so they are ahead of Waynesburg.
8) Waynesburg- I know they are still winless and 2 of the teams I rank lower have wins. Their schedule finally softens with the bottom 3 teams being Waynesburg's next 4 games.  I think they win all 3 of those games.  We will see.
9) SVC- Off this past week. 
10) Thiel- While they were blown out, they showed moxy.  Too bad their schedule worked out that they got their first win of the season only to go against a top dog in the conference.
11) Bethany- So heart and fight and was even up at one point against an ok Allegheny team.


New this week the tier system- basically where I see the separation between the strengths of the teams.  I actually think I may move to this instead of an actual power rank, since I do not get to see all the games.  I watch a couple a week and if I'm lucky, there might be highlights of another game or 2.

Tier 1- W&J, GCC, CMU
Tier 2- CWRU- Westminster
Tier 3- Allegheny, Geneva, and Waynesburg
Tier 4-  SVC, Theil, Bethany

ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

Grove City Attendance: 4800
CWRU Attendance: 1642
W&J Attendance: 1577
Waynesburg Attendance: 1145
Allegheny Attendance: 1114


2023 Total attendance

Allegheny- 3,395 (2 games)
Bethany- 1,096 (1 game)
Carnegie Mellon- 2,150 (2 games)
Case Western Reserve- 1,642 (2 games: they did not report their 1st game)
Geneva- 5,155 (1 game)
Grove City- 10,200 (3 games)
St. Vincent- 3,250 (2 games)
Theil- 1,453 (2 games)
W&J- 4,740 (2 games)
Waynesburg- 2,495 (3 games)
Westminster- 1,727 (1 game)


This is a great break down. Please continue to do this every week, my first look to recap what's going on in the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2023, 01:46:38 PM
Quote from: jam40jeff on September 27, 2023, 09:07:37 AM
My gut is that W&J is the clear #1 in the conference, with GCC, CMU, and CWRU all close together well behind W&J, and then everybody else, but I guess we'll know more after Saturday.

Quote from: ADL70 on September 28, 2023, 12:58:10 PM
That's my gut too, Jeff.

Mine as well.  A small worry I have is that Grove City has had to really bring it a few weeks in a row and it can be hard to get fully "up" for a big game several weeks running. 

Look, I get it, I was a player, I would love to think in GCC's shoes I would be bringing the same intensity or even more to this week's game than last week's, especially knowing that a win this week puts them firmly in the driver's seat for the league title and playoff berth.  I'm oddly pulling for them even though it's probably the end of CMU's playoff chances if they win.  But I kinda worry they're going to be running out of steam and W&J might be a little too much.

Pretty much agree with mikefln's power rankings and breakdown.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on September 29, 2023, 05:31:02 PM
Massey predicts W&J 28-20 with a 72% chance of winning.              Hansen has W&J 34.7 24.4 with a 75.6% chance of winning

National rankings for PAC                                                              National Rank

W&J 16                                                                                        W&J 22
GCC 30                                                                                         GCC 30
CMU 38                                                                                         CMU 57
West 65                                                                                         CWRU 79
CWRU 66                                                                                       West 108 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 29, 2023, 06:02:43 PM
Should be an interesting day!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on September 30, 2023, 07:15:53 PM
Well, it was a close game and could have gone either way until GC locked it down late in the fourth quarter.

. W&J could pass but not consistently sustain the run. Grove City could run and towards the end started passing better.

GC should end up asbPAC Champs and I wish them well the rest of the way. W&J should end up at least 8-2, complete their 40th consecutive winning season, and go to a bowl game. Not bad, but not what they hoped for.

Still al lot of games left to watch.  My sons and I will be at Homecoming next week vs Allegheny.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on September 30, 2023, 10:22:47 PM
CMU was a bit sluggish and sloppy, but came out with the W. 

Credit to Allegheny, they had a big crowd and lots of energy and played hard.  Just never could get enough offense going to really threaten CMU.

On the CMU side of the ledger, I would have liked to see the offense put together another clean drive or two to put the game away, but - this was always a possible trap game.  Away night game the week after a tough loss to GCC in an away night game, knowing that playoff aspirations have taken a big hit...have to just take the W and get right for the tough closing stretch.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on September 30, 2023, 11:06:52 PM
How incredibly impressive GCC running the table on CWRU, CMU, and W&J ... back-to-back-to-back

Getting some national attention:  https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1708269733814898770

EDIT: And they've already beaten Westminster!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 10:10:41 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2023, 01:46:38 PM


Mine as well.  A small worry I have is that Grove City has had to really bring it a few weeks in a row and it can be hard to get fully "up" for a big game several weeks running. 

Look, I get it, I was a player, I would love to think in GCC's shoes I would be bringing the same intensity or even more to this week's game than last week's, especially knowing that a win this week puts them firmly in the driver's seat for the league title and playoff berth.  I'm oddly pulling for them even though it's probably the end of CMU's playoff chances if they win.  But I kinda worry they're going to be running out of steam and W&J might be a little too much.

Pretty much agree with mikefln's power rankings and breakdown.
Quote from: E.115 on September 30, 2023, 11:06:52 PM
How incredibly impressive GCC running the table on CWRU, CMU, and W&J ... back-to-back-to-back

Getting some national attention:  https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1708269733814898770

EDIT: And they've already beaten Westminster!

It is incredibly impressive feat GCC just did.  I think what ExTartan was worried about of GCC not being up going into W&J, is actually more of a worry now that the gauntlet is over.  This is a classic trap game.  Very easy to lose focus this week. 

I find the Top 25 to be shameful.  I understand the PAC is not going to have 3 teams ranked, but GCC is only #23 after 3 weeks of beating quality teams and they are one spot behind number 22 MBH.  How long does MBH get to rest of their previous laurels?  I understand they lost to 3 highly Quality teams, but they lost all 3.  That has to mean something.  Is there another team that played 3 quality programs like GCC just did and win all 3?  They should be somewhere around 15-20.  Then CMU drops out of the ranking (if it happened last week I would have understood it better) and into other receiving votes this week after a win.  W&J went from other receiving votes (basically ranked #28) to no votes at because they lost by 7 points against a top 25 team that they were away for. 

Someone please make sense of this for me. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2023, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 10:10:41 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2023, 01:46:38 PM


Mine as well.  A small worry I have is that Grove City has had to really bring it a few weeks in a row and it can be hard to get fully "up" for a big game several weeks running. 

Look, I get it, I was a player, I would love to think in GCC's shoes I would be bringing the same intensity or even more to this week's game than last week's, especially knowing that a win this week puts them firmly in the driver's seat for the league title and playoff berth.  I'm oddly pulling for them even though it's probably the end of CMU's playoff chances if they win.  But I kinda worry they're going to be running out of steam and W&J might be a little too much.

Pretty much agree with mikefln's power rankings and breakdown.
Quote from: E.115 on September 30, 2023, 11:06:52 PM
How incredibly impressive GCC running the table on CWRU, CMU, and W&J ... back-to-back-to-back

Getting some national attention:  https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1708269733814898770

EDIT: And they've already beaten Westminster!

It is incredibly impressive feat GCC just did.  I think what ExTartan was worried about of GCC not being up going into W&J, is actually more of a worry now that the gauntlet is over.  This is a classic trap game.  Very easy to lose focus this week. 

I find the Top 25 to be shameful.  I understand the PAC is not going to have 3 teams ranked, but GCC is only #23 after 3 weeks of beating quality teams and they are one spot behind number 22 MBH.  How long does MBH get to rest of their previous laurels?  I understand they lost to 3 highly Quality teams, but they lost all 3.  That has to mean something.  Is there another team that played 3 quality programs like GCC just did and win all 3?  They should be somewhere around 15-20.  Then CMU drops out of the ranking (if it happened last week I would have understood it better) and into other receiving votes this week after a win.  W&J went from other receiving votes (basically ranked #28) to no votes at because they lost by 7 points against a top 25 team that they were away for. 

Someone please make sense of this for me.

Guessing that once Grove City defeated W&J, voters consolidated around two PAC teams instead of three on their ballots and they voted more for Grove City, the clear best team of the three. Before this week, there was still doubt.

I'm not going to re-litigate Mary Hardin-Baylor's ranking here. You can find lots of discussion on it in the comments on the older Top 25 polls. But, in short, it does mean something. It means UMHB needs to be ranked behind UW-Whitewater, UW-River Falls and Trinity (Texas).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 12:30:11 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2023, 10:50:41 AM

Guessing that once Grove City defeated W&J, voters consolidated around two PAC teams instead of three on their ballots and they voted more for Grove City, the clear best team of the three. Before this week, there was still doubt.

I'm not going to re-litigate Mary Hardin-Baylor's ranking here. You can find lots of discussion on it in the comments on the older Top 25 polls. But, in short, it does mean something. It means UMHB needs to be ranked behind UW-Whitewater, UW-River Falls and Trinity (Texas).

Pat, I appreciate all the hard work you put into this site, I know it is not easy and I know I am just a guest here on your forum.  I do not understand the logic of your response.  With that logic, GCC should have been ranked ahead of CMU last week once they lost to them.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2023, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 12:30:11 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2023, 10:50:41 AM

Guessing that once Grove City defeated W&J, voters consolidated around two PAC teams instead of three on their ballots and they voted more for Grove City, the clear best team of the three. Before this week, there was still doubt.

I'm not going to re-litigate Mary Hardin-Baylor's ranking here. You can find lots of discussion on it in the comments on the older Top 25 polls. But, in short, it does mean something. It means UMHB needs to be ranked behind UW-Whitewater, UW-River Falls and Trinity (Texas).

Pat, I appreciate all the hard work you put into this site, I know it is not easy and I know I am just a guest here on your forum.  I do not understand the logic of your response.  With that logic, GCC should have been ranked ahead of CMU last week once they lost to them.

Understandable. Grove City was still splitting "PAC No. 1 team" votes with W&J until they beat W&J. Once they beat W&J and was clearly "PAC No. 1" on every ballot, then you saw their point total rise in accordance with that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on October 02, 2023, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 10:10:41 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on September 29, 2023, 01:46:38 PM


Mine as well.  A small worry I have is that Grove City has had to really bring it a few weeks in a row and it can be hard to get fully "up" for a big game several weeks running. 

Look, I get it, I was a player, I would love to think in GCC's shoes I would be bringing the same intensity or even more to this week's game than last week's, especially knowing that a win this week puts them firmly in the driver's seat for the league title and playoff berth.  I'm oddly pulling for them even though it's probably the end of CMU's playoff chances if they win.  But I kinda worry they're going to be running out of steam and W&J might be a little too much.

Pretty much agree with mikefln's power rankings and breakdown.
Quote from: E.115 on September 30, 2023, 11:06:52 PM
How incredibly impressive GCC running the table on CWRU, CMU, and W&J ... back-to-back-to-back

Getting some national attention:  https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1708269733814898770

EDIT: And they've already beaten Westminster!

It is incredibly impressive feat GCC just did.  I think what ExTartan was worried about of GCC not being up going into W&J, is actually more of a worry now that the gauntlet is over.  This is a classic trap game.  Very easy to lose focus this week. 

I find the Top 25 to be shameful. I understand the PAC is not going to have 3 teams ranked, but GCC is only #23 after 3 weeks of beating quality teams and they are one spot behind number 22 MBH.  How long does MBH get to rest of their previous laurels?  I understand they lost to 3 highly Quality teams, but they lost all 3.  That has to mean something.  Is there another team that played 3 quality programs like GCC just did and win all 3?  They should be somewhere around 15-20.  Then CMU drops out of the ranking (if it happened last week I would have understood it better) and into other receiving votes this week after a win.  W&J went from other receiving votes (basically ranked #28) to no votes at because they lost by 7 points against a top 25 team that they were away for. 

Someone please make sense of this for me.

IMO the D3FB poll is the best poll in all of college football in terms of fairly and accurately ranking teams. What GCC did is very impressive but the D3FB Poll isn't some wild outlier.The AFCA coaches poll only has GCC at #25,  the Massey computer rankings have them at #19, and Logan Hansens' Computer rankings put the Wolverines at #37.

If you single out D3Fb you can't leave out the AFCA or the computers.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 05, 2023, 07:30:40 PM
And so the PAC continues to move into the new media age. As I'm sure you know it is much broader. W&J now streams MW Basketball, Lacrosse, field hockey, and baseball (there may be others). The production has become more professional. I'm sure this is happening at CWRU and CMU and many other D III schools.

So I went to the PAC app on Roku to watch the GCC vs W&J game.  It was not available on the app and I had to watch that game on my phone.   In fact, there was only 1 football game broadcasted on the app, Bethany's broadcast of their game against CWRU.  I understand that CWRU and CMU are not using the app, without knowing the reasons why, I am assuming it is because they are just affiliate members.  Ok no issue.  But Allegheny & Geneva had/have both men and women's soccer, volleyball, field hockey, etc broadcasted but not the football game.  At least GCC and Thiel did not broadcast any other games, they are consistent with not broadcasting on the app.

Does anyone know the reasoning why some schools utilize the app to broadcast all their sports but football.  And why some schools choose to not utilize the app the app at all?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 04:30:27 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on October 02, 2023, 04:08:27 PM

IMO the D3FB poll is the best poll in all of college football in terms of fairly and accurately ranking teams. What GCC did is very impressive but the D3FB Poll isn't some wild outlier.The AFCA coaches poll only has GCC at #25,  the Massey computer rankings have them at #19, and Logan Hansens' Computer rankings put the Wolverines at #37.

If you single out D3Fb you can't leave out the AFCA or the computers.

I agree with you that D3FB is the best poll to the point that I do not even look at the others.  I realize I came off strong and I would like to apologize for my harsh tone. 

With that said, I was not really complaining about GCC being #23 other than MBH being #22.  I get they are new to the polls this week, and with more football to be played they will get higher as other teams lose.  My heartburn had more to do with CMU and W&J both teams with the exact same resume of losing at GCC by 7 are being treated different. 1 is still receiving votes and the other is not.  make no logical sense.  I understand that the voters are not just looking at the PAC and cannot know all the nuances going on.  But 2 teams that were already on the voter's radar, having the same exact results in consecutive weeks, should be treated equally imo.  I would have actually been ok with neither of them getting votes instead of 1 getting them and the other not.  What did CMU do better than W&J to this point in the season? 

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2023, 04:48:55 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on August 05, 2023, 07:30:40 PM
And so the PAC continues to move into the new media age. As I'm sure you know it is much broader. W&J now streams MW Basketball, Lacrosse, field hockey, and baseball (there may be others). The production has become more professional. I'm sure this is happening at CWRU and CMU and many other D III schools.

So I went to the PAC app on Roku to watch the GCC vs W&J game.  It was not available on the app and I had to watch that game on my phone.   In fact, there was only 1 football game broadcasted on the app, Bethany's broadcast of their game against CWRU.  I understand that CWRU and CMU are not using the app, without knowing the reasons why, I am assuming it is because they are just affiliate members.  Ok no issue.  But Allegheny & Geneva had/have both men and women's soccer, volleyball, field hockey, etc broadcasted but not the football game.  At least GCC and Thiel did not broadcast any other games, they are consistent with not broadcasting on the app.

Does anyone know the reasoning why some schools utilize the app to broadcast all their sports but football.  And why some schools choose to not utilize the app the app at all?

I'm guessing some of the inconsistencies have to do with the KDKA broadcasts, and they had the Allegheny-Carnegie Mellon game.

Here's the Grove City-W&J game: https://livestream.com/accounts/13431056/events/10935965/videos/237753710
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on October 03, 2023, 03:54:39 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 04:30:27 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on October 02, 2023, 04:08:27 PM

IMO the D3FB poll is the best poll in all of college football in terms of fairly and accurately ranking teams. What GCC did is very impressive but the D3FB Poll isn't some wild outlier.The AFCA coaches poll only has GCC at #25,  the Massey computer rankings have them at #19, and Logan Hansens' Computer rankings put the Wolverines at #37.

If you single out D3Fb you can't leave out the AFCA or the computers.

I agree with you that D3FB is the best poll to the point that I do not even look at the others.  I realize I came off strong and I would like to apologize for my harsh tone

With that said, I was not really complaining about GCC being #23 other than MBH being #22.  I get they are new to the polls this week, and with more football to be played they will get higher as other teams lose.  My heartburn had more to do with CMU and W&J both teams with the exact same resume of losing at GCC by 7 are being treated different. 1 is still receiving votes and the other is not.  make no logical sense.  I understand that the voters are not just looking at the PAC and cannot know all the nuances going on.  But 2 teams that were already on the voter's radar, having the same exact results in consecutive weeks, should be treated equally imo.  I would have actually been ok with neither of them getting votes instead of 1 getting them and the other not.  What did CMU do better than W&J to this point in the season?

I've regrettably done this many times over the years. It's all good. Sometimes our love and passion of D3 football gets emotional. Pat has always been very forgiving with thick skin to boot. +k

Just curious, and please don't think I know the answer to this, or that I have a confident and snarky thought that I'm ready to respond with. Do you think Grove beats UMHB head to head? I really respect what Grove has done and will continue to root for them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 03, 2023, 10:37:21 PM
Quote from: Ice Bear on October 03, 2023, 03:54:39 PM

I've regrettably done this many times over the years. It's all good. Sometimes our love and passion of D3 football gets emotional. Pat has always been very forgiving with thick skin to boot. +k

Just curious, and please don't think I know the answer to this, or that I have a confident and snarky thought that I'm ready to respond with. Do you think Grove beats UMHB head to head? I really respect what Grove has done and will continue to root for them.

Yes, I am a little embarrassed by my words/actions.

Fair questions and to answer it, I would say yes they could beat UMHB.  But that really does not mean much.  Upsets happen all the time, and while GCC beating MBH would be an upset, it would not be a huge one this year, in my mind.

If you don't mind, I would like to word your question a little differently than how you asked.  To me there are 2 better hypothetical question to ask, and they are:

1) IF UMHB and GCC played at a neutral site who would win more games?  IMO UMHB would probably win 6 or 7 of those games compared to GCC's 3 or 4 wins. 

2) is if GCC would have played GCC schedule would they have done better?  This is a little tougher to answer because football is about execution, match ups, and momentum.  2 of those 3 are tough to compare.  Execution you can compare by who has the better players and better coaching.  But the focus/discipline aspect of execution cannot be easily to compare.  If I had to answer that I would say yes.  GCC would have won at least 1 of the 3 games that UMHB lost.  Probably the River Falls or Trinity game imo. 

That seems contradictory at first glance for me to say in question #1 UMHB is superior, yet I think GCC would have a better record against UMHB schedule.  That is the point, it is all theoretical.  So we go with what we know. What we know is GCC is undefeated and UMHB lost 3 games, and until they win a few games, imo they should not be ranked.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 04, 2023, 12:01:06 AM
Quote from: mikefln on October 02, 2023, 04:30:27 PM

My heartburn had more to do with CMU and W&J both teams with the exact same resume of losing at GCC by 7 are being treated different. 1 is still receiving votes and the other is not.  make no logical sense.  I understand that the voters are not just looking at the PAC and cannot know all the nuances going on.  But 2 teams that were already on the voter's radar, having the same exact results in consecutive weeks, should be treated equally imo. 

Hey now, CWRU lost to GCC by less than 7 :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 04, 2023, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: E.115 on October 04, 2023, 12:01:06 AM

Hey now, CWRU lost to GCC by less than 7 :)

I respect CWRU and they defiantly came the closest to beating GCC this year.  My comments in my power rankings from last week and this week state as much.  With that said it is time for my power rankings.

My Power Rankings after week 5 - This week there are changes at the top and bottom.  This really is starting to become a top strong and bottom weak conference.  There is not much in the middle. With 11 teams, one would expect 4/5 teams to be in the middle, but that is not the case at this moment.

Tier 1

1) Grove City- Huge statement they made.   IMO opinion no team in the nation faced as tough of a 3 week schedule and came out on top, better than GCC.  If they avoid the letdown this week, they win the PAC as they control their own destiny and they are entering the easier part of the schedule.  Again, the goal is to just avoid the let down after 3 tough emotional wins in a row.
2) W&J- Tough loss to who is most likely to be the PAC Champs this season.   They still have a few tough games ahead in CMU and CWRU
3) CMU – A nice bounce back win against a respectable Allegheny team.  2 tough games ahead which includes their rival game against CWRU who just may win out themselves

Tier 2

4) Case- If the go 1-1 against W&J/ Case and if  the loss is by a TD or less, then they could make a case for being tier 1 assuming they win their other games. 
5) Westminster- off this past week
.

Tier 3

6) Allegheny- I think they are more Tier 3 than Tier 2 right now.  If they beat CWRU or West, I may bump them to that category. 
7) SVC- A good win for them this past week. Looking to see continuous improvement.
8) Thiel-  1st time in 6 years they have won 2 games in a season.  Hopefully they can pick up a full more and build off this year going forward
9)Geneva- They really should be performing better than they do.
10) Waynesburg- At some point you need to win.  I called them scrappy and I still think that, but losing to Thiel is not a good path forward.
11) Bethany- They still have Geneva, Waynesburg, and SVC to try an pick up a win.  If they win 2 of those 3 I would say it was a good season for them.  If they can win all 3, then that is a great season and something to build off of.


ATTENDANCE: taken from the box score of the PAC web site.

Grove City Attendance: 5000
Allegheny Attendance: 4834
Geneva Attendance: 4320
Bethany Attendance: 1895
Thiel Attendance: 1724


2023 Total attendance

Allegheny- 8,229 (3 games)
Bethany- 2,991 (2 games)
Carnegie Mellon- 2,150 (2 games)
Case Western Reserve- 1,642 (2 games: they did not report their 1st game)
Geneva- 9,475 (2 game)
Grove City- 15,200 (3 games)
St. Vincent- 3,250 (2 games)
Theil- 3,177 (3 games)
W&J- 4,740 (2 games)
Waynesburg- 2,495 (3 games)
Westminster- 1,727 (1 game)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2023, 11:06:56 AM
Quote from: mikefln on October 04, 2023, 11:03:44 AM
IMO opinion no team in the nation faced as tough of a 3 week schedule and came out on top, better than GCC. 

I'd encourage a look at UW-Whitewater.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on October 04, 2023, 01:30:50 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 03, 2023, 10:37:21 PM
Quote from: Ice Bear on October 03, 2023, 03:54:39 PM

I've regrettably done this many times over the years. It's all good. Sometimes our love and passion of D3 football gets emotional. Pat has always been very forgiving with thick skin to boot. +k

Just curious, and please don't think I know the answer to this, or that I have a confident and snarky thought that I'm ready to respond with. Do you think Grove beats UMHB head to head? I really respect what Grove has done and will continue to root for them.

Yes, I am a little embarrassed by my words/actions.

Fair questions and to answer it, I would say yes they could beat UMHB.  But that really does not mean much.  Upsets happen all the time, and while GCC beating MBH would be an upset, it would not be a huge one this year, in my mind.

If you don't mind, I would like to word your question a little differently than how you asked.  To me there are 2 better hypothetical question to ask, and they are:

1) IF UMHB and GCC played at a neutral site who would win more games?  IMO UMHB would probably win 6 or 7 of those games compared to GCC's 3 or 4 wins. 

2) is if GCC would have played UMHB schedule would they have done better?  This is a little tougher to answer because football is about execution, match ups, and momentum.  2 of those 3 are tough to compare.  Execution you can compare by who has the better players and better coaching.  But the focus/discipline aspect of execution cannot be easily to compare.  If I had to answer that I would say yes.  GCC would have won at least 1 of the 3 games that UMHB lost.  Probably the River Falls or Trinity game imo. 

That seems contradictory at first glance for me to say in question #1 UMHB is superior, yet I think GCC would have a better record against UMHB schedule.  That is the point, it is all theoretical.  So we go with what we know. What we know is GCC is undefeated and UMHB lost 3 games, and until they win a few games, imo they should not be ranked.

Solid post Mike and I concur with much of your thinking here.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on October 04, 2023, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2023, 11:06:56 AM
Quote from: mikefln on October 04, 2023, 11:03:44 AM
IMO opinion no team in the nation faced as tough of a 3 week schedule and came out on top, better than GCC. 

I'd encourage a look at UW-Whitewater.

And this week UWW plays their 5th consecutive week against a ranked opponent (UWO was ranked when they played them).

And they are 4-0! Brutal!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 05, 2023, 05:03:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 04, 2023, 11:06:56 AM
Quote from: mikefln on October 04, 2023, 11:03:44 AM
IMO opinion no team in the nation faced as tough of a 3 week schedule and came out on top, better than GCC. 

I'd encourage a look at UW-Whitewater.

Ok you got me there. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: The Mole on October 05, 2023, 02:23:55 PM
Great discussion but the polls don't matter. Win your league and you are in, too few at-large Pool C bids to fight for...
Aren't the regional rankings coming out soon? That is what is gonna matter most....
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 05, 2023, 05:16:36 PM
Quote from: The Mole on October 05, 2023, 02:23:55 PM
Great discussion but the polls don't matter. Win your league and you are in, too few at-large Pool C bids to fight for...
Aren't the regional rankings coming out soon? That is what is gonna matter most....

IMO a PAC team getting a Pole C bid is 1 out of 100.  Those days are few and far between with the limited number available now. I think the PAC is a stronger conference then it gets credit for.  I think people view it as a middle of the road conference and 10 years ago I would have agreed.  I think with CWRU and CMU being added back then started to strengthen the conference.  Now with GCC taking many steps forward, and Westminster strengthen their program I would say the PAC is in the top 1/3 of the best D3 football conferences.  But they still have not shaken that middle of the road image. 

The only way a PAC team gets into the playoffs is win this conference.  Especially with no out of conference games to view if by some miricle they were looked at for Pool C bid.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: The Mole on October 06, 2023, 07:23:09 AM
GCC will probably have to lose twice to not get in, hard to see that happening. By winning a first round game they can legitimize the conference. They are in a geographical area that they could play a number of teams (Susquehanna, Mt Union, NCC, Hopkins, Liberty Champ, RMC/ODAC, Del Val). All about getting a favorable draw, ask Muhlenberg.
Pat talked about it some on the podcast, but what that staff has done is pretty incredible. Not the easiest place to recruit,
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2023, 10:20:44 AM
Couple of things:

1. Yes, UWW (and a few of the other Divisional Giants) have played tougher schedules than GCC to date, but no question the Wolverines have done an outstanding job plowing through a schedule that included 4 true "quality" opponents in the first 5 games.  This ties in with...

2.

Quote from: mikefln on October 05, 2023, 05:16:36 PM
Quote from: The Mole on October 05, 2023, 02:23:55 PM
Great discussion but the polls don't matter. Win your league and you are in, too few at-large Pool C bids to fight for...
Aren't the regional rankings coming out soon? That is what is gonna matter most....

IMO a PAC team getting a Pole C bid is 1 out of 100.  Those days are few and far between with the limited number available now. I think the PAC is a stronger conference then it gets credit for.  I think people view it as a middle of the road conference and 10 years ago I would have agreed.  I think with CWRU and CMU being added back then started to strengthen the conference.  Now with GCC taking many steps forward, and Westminster strengthen their program I would say the PAC is in the top 1/3 of the best D3 football conferences.  But they still have not shaken that middle of the road image. 

The only way a PAC team gets into the playoffs is win this conference.  Especially with no out of conference games to view if by some miricle they were looked at for Pool C bid.

I also believe the PAC is stronger than it gets credit for, and would rank it somewhere in the top 10, probably around 8 (despite Wally Wabash, er Greg Thomas, ranking them 12th in his conference rankings this year - admittedly hard when they have zero out-of-conference play, it's entirely based on "last year" results + this year's eyeball test).  And yet, with no OOC play, I think it's drawing a dead hand to hope for a Pool C bid.  This actually is okay with me - I'm on record as being a fan of the AQ system and arguing that everyone can get in by winning their conference, so the Pool C arguments are always second to "well, win your conference next time" in my book. 

I do believe there are 5 real "quality" teams in the conference right now, teams that are good enough to give the other "fringe of the top 25" type teams a scrap or win, with GCC sitting atop the heap of those and probably a legitimate top-20 team or better.  I do want to stress that they might be much better than that, possibly as good as top-10ish though the playoffs will be the only place to prove that.  Which brings me to my next point...

Quote from: The Mole on October 06, 2023, 07:23:09 AM
GCC will probably have to lose twice to not get in, hard to see that happening. By winning a first round game they can legitimize the conference. They are in a geographical area that they could play a number of teams (Susquehanna, Mt Union, NCC, Hopkins, Liberty Champ, RMC/ODAC, Del Val). All about getting a favorable draw, ask Muhlenberg.
Pat talked about it some on the podcast, but what that staff has done is pretty incredible. Not the easiest place to recruit,

IMO this has already happened.  Carnegie Mellon demolished the NCAC champ last year and played the eventual national champions to a 14-7 score at the end of the third quarter.  I think I checked this last year but if memory serves me right, CMU was literally the only team to lead North Central at any point in a game last year.

note: I decided to re-check and it turns out, I was wrong: Augustana led 3-0 (in a game that ended North Central 63, Augustana 3).  CMU was the only team to lead by a margin of 7!

I do agree that a Grove City playoff win would further legitimize the conference - it's always good to be able to boast more than one team with playoff wins in recent memory - but IMO the conference already should be looked at with some respect from that performance.  With a different draw, CMU may have been a quarterfinalist last year, though I do think once you get into the playoffs "matchups" matter a lot and CMU was unusually well-suited to play North Central tougher than some other teams (I think there's a not-totally-ridiculous argument that CMU had a top-5 defense in D3 last season with an offense that was more of a "good enough" unit that could be opportunistic on turnovers etc).

Also, while we can talk all we want about how Grove City needs to stay focused and avoid letdowns...c'mon.  The gap betweenn the top 5 and the rest of the conference is pretty large, probably bigger than the gap from #1 to #5.  My big worry for Grove City is not that they'll actually stub their toe in any of the games yet to play, but whether they will be able to dial it back up to the level they've had to play for the last month after 5 weeks of...sorry folks...mediocre competition.

For what it's worth, while I am very glad to see Thiel scoring some wins (I have a soft spot for bottom dwellers, too, and it's not so long since power Grove City was in the doldrums)...one reason that it's hard for the league to push itself into that top-8 picture nationally is that while it boasts five "quality" teams, there's a huge drop to the rest.  I think you could argue that teams #1-5 in the conference all should rank in the top 50-ish teams nationally.  I also think it's hard to argue anyone else belongs in the top half of the division.  So five top-50 teams and six bottom-100 teams does kind of average out to ~12th overall, maybe, among the conferences.

Anyways, this last post is the sort of thing I'd never have said when I was playing, so prove me wrong folks.  Somebody go after Grove City this next month and show me that the bottom of the league has more bite than I'm giving credit for :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 10:49:11 AM
Carnegie Mellon did indeed destroy the 9-1 champ of what is currently the 19th ranked conference.

Carnegie Mellon did indeed trail North Central close on the scoreboard, but they were not really a threat to win that game. They got one-third of their offense on one broken (IIRC) play in the first quarter and after that, had 10 drives, for a total of 30 yards.

Just feel like those accomplishments from last year needed the context.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2023, 11:33:17 AM
Pat, always the charmer.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 10:49:11 AM
Carnegie Mellon did indeed destroy the 9-1 champ of what is currently the 19th ranked conference.

Carnegie Mellon did indeed trail North Central close on the scoreboard, but they were not really a threat to win that game. They got one-third of their offense on one broken (IIRC) play in the first quarter and after that, had 10 drives, for a total of 30 yards.

Just feel like those accomplishments from last year needed the context.

1. Did not suggest that destroying the 9-1 champ of the 19th-ranked conference is anything less than what should be expected of a 10-0 champ of a conference that aspires to be in the top 10.  But a 45-14 win over the champ of the 19th ranked conference sure looks better than a 33-28 loss to the 9-1 champ of the 21st ranked conference.  You know your stuff, maybe you can remind me which team had that first-round result last year?  It's one of those UW schools...oh, gee, that's right, it was the champion of the 1st ranked conference!  See I can pull out fun facts, too.  I just thought that the #1 ranked conference's accomplishments also needed some context.

(OK Pat, calm down, the PAC isn't better than the WIAC, cool your jets, have a drink...the point is that the PAC champ boatraced somebody in the first round last year, from a conference whose message board used to be full of activity complaining that they were required to play non-league games against dreck teams like Case Western and Carnegie Mellon)

2. Never said Carnegie Mellon was a threat to win the NCC game.  Suspect North Central played it close to the vest knowing that CMU's offense was unlikely to put up big points.  Yes, it's true that Carnegie Mellon's touchdown came on a sort-of "broken" play (their DB went for a big hit on WR, who sort of "bounced" off the tackle and spun out into what was suddenly a wide open field to go the distance). 

But as long as we're talking, here's a complete list of teams that were within 7 points of North Central in the second half of game last year:

- Wheaton (into the fourth quarter, and a game North Central did actually have to sweat out)
- Mary Hardin Baylor (for 2 minutes, en route to losing 49-14, never had the ball with a chance to tie the game at any point in the second half)
- Mount Union (for 2 minutes in the fourth quarter, never had the ball with a chance to tie the game at any point in the second half)

I know "had the ball with a chance to tie the game" is kind of an arbitrary definition, but Wheaton was the only team besides CMU to possess the ball after halftime with a chance to tie the game.  UMHB did not.  Mount Union did not.  By this measure, they were "not really a threat to win" the game against North Central, either.  Am I saying that CMU was better than those teams?  No, don't be ridiculous.  I am saying that CMU gave the national champs as tough a game as anyone except for Wheaton (their tooth-and-nail conference rival) and Mount Union (who is Mount Union), probably more than what folks would have expected of the PAC champ.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 11:42:25 AM
Yeah, unfortunately, since those were the last two non-conference games for the PAC, we do maybe dig into them a little more.

Hopefully the PAC beats someone higher up the pecking order this year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2023, 12:06:18 PM
2022 W&J beat Hobart in a non-conference game. (after regular season)
2022 W&J beat John Carroll in a non-conference game.

2022 CMU beat Whitworth in a non-conference game.
2022 CMU beat RPI in a non-conference game.

2022 Grove City beat FDU-Florham in a non-conference game. (after regular season)

W&J, CWRU & CMU are all in same boat.  Need to win out, convincingly wouldn't hurt, hope for a little out-of-conference chaos, and force the committee to leave out a 9-1 team.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 12:09:49 PM
Yep, thanks Bob -- I was talking about postseason.

I generally don't include the bowl games for the usual reasons.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2023, 10:20:44 AM


Also, while we can talk all we want about how Grove City needs to stay focused and avoid letdowns...c'mon.  The gap betweenn the top 5 and the rest of the conference is pretty large, probably bigger than the gap from #1 to #5.  My big worry for Grove City is not that they'll actually stub their toe in any of the games yet to play, but whether they will be able to dial it back up to the level they've had to play for the last month after 5 weeks of...sorry folks...mediocre competition.

If this was the pro's I would agree with you.  But this is college, D3 college at that.  You don't know if a player finds out they impregnated their girl even at a place like GCC.  You don't know who got busted for underage drinking, DUI, failed a mid-term, didn't get accepted to law school, etc.  In GCC case, this is the first time these kids have been in the top position, you never know how they will act.  If this was W&J who has a history of being on top I would agree.

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2023, 10:20:44 AM
For what it's worth, while I am very glad to see Thiel scoring some wins (I have a soft spot for bottom dwellers, too, and it's not so long since power Grove City was in the doldrums)...one reason that it's hard for the league to push itself into that top-8 picture nationally is that while it boasts five "quality" teams, there's a huge drop to the rest.  I think you could argue that teams #1-5 in the conference all should rank in the top 50-ish teams nationally.  I also think it's hard to argue anyone else belongs in the top half of the division.  So five top-50 teams and six bottom-100 teams does kind of average out to ~12th overall, maybe, among the conferences.

I will agree the bottom of this conference is not that great.  Allegheny maybe the only one who at this point might make a case for being average this year, but they may prove to be just as bad as the rest of the bottom too.  There is certainly a big drop between Westminster (the 5th place) and Allegheny (6th place) then even more separation to the other 5 teams.

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2023, 10:20:44 AM
Anyways, this last post is the sort of thing I'd never have said when I was playing, so prove me wrong folks.  Somebody go after Grove City this next month and show me that the bottom of the league has more bite than I'm giving credit for :)

100% agree  with you here and good overall post that I agree with a lot of it.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 12:09:49 PM
Yep, thanks Bob -- I was talking about postseason.

I generally don't include the bowl games for the usual reasons.

If I may ask, what are your usual reasons?  I know the reasons for FBS, but not for D3.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 12:58:36 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 12:09:49 PM
Yep, thanks Bob -- I was talking about postseason.

I generally don't include the bowl games for the usual reasons.

If I may ask, what are your usual reasons?  I know the reasons for FBS, but not for D3.

The results can be unreliable because not every team has the same motivation to be in the game. Some are still hanging their heads after a tough Week 11 loss, or not getting an at-large bid, and come out flat.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2023, 11:33:17 AM


1. Did not suggest that destroying the 9-1 champ of the 19th-ranked conference is anything less than what should be expected of a 10-0 champ of a conference that aspires to be in the top 10.  But a 45-14 win over the champ of the 19th ranked conference sure looks better than a 33-28 loss to the 9-1 champ of the 21st ranked conference.  You know your stuff, maybe you can remind me which team had that first-round result last year?  It's one of those UW schools...oh, gee, that's right, it was the champion of the 1st ranked conference!  See I can pull out fun facts, too.  I just thought that the #1 ranked conference's accomplishments also needed some context.


Thanks for the laugh that was funny.  I agree the PAC is no where close to WIAC, but it does seem like different rules are being applied.

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 06, 2023, 12:06:18 PM


W&J, CWRU & CMU are all in same boat.  Need to win out, convincingly wouldn't hurt, hope for a little out-of-conference chaos, and force the committee to leave out a 9-1 team.



I love your thinking but in my opinion Pool C is too hard to get.   WHEN JCU beats Mount (that's right, you heard it here first), you know MU is getting one of the Pool C leaving 4 bids left.  Wheaton will get one if they win out, leaving 3 spots. If they lose 1 more game, it will be 4 spots left with the CCIW runner up in the mix for that 4th opening.   With that said we need Wheaton to lose for the PAC to have a chance at a Pool C.

So, assuming Wheaton wins out, vying for those 3 spots will be the runner up of the WIAC, ARC, CC, E8, LL, MAC, MIAA, NACC, NCAC, & ODAC.  Out of those 10 conferences plus the PAC I am guessing six 9-1 runner ups. The PAC is viewed as better than some of those conferences and viewed not as good as others.  I know I would not bet money on a 9-1 PAC team getting a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 01:03:00 PM
Thanks for the laugh that was funny.  I agree the PAC is no where close to WIAC, but it does seem like different rules are being applied.

Yes. Because the WIAC track record is based on more than just a postseason game or two from a single year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 02:55:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 01:03:00 PM
Thanks for the laugh that was funny.  I agree the PAC is no where close to WIAC, but it does seem like different rules are being applied.

Yes. Because the WIAC track record is based on more than just a postseason game or two from a single year.

Wow stupid me. I thought yearly rankings are supposed to be based on, I don't know, maybe just that year's results?  Silly me. I didn't realize how important the accomplishments a conference did 2+ years ago mattered on a yearly ranking.   I also thought the same standard was to be equitable to all. I did not know the selection person/committee got to cherry pick what data they used to justify between multiple entities.  Thank you for setting me straight.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 03:24:02 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 02:55:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 06, 2023, 01:03:00 PM
Thanks for the laugh that was funny.  I agree the PAC is no where close to WIAC, but it does seem like different rules are being applied.

Yes. Because the WIAC track record is based on more than just a postseason game or two from a single year.

Wow stupid me. I thought yearly rankings are supposed to be based on, I don't know, maybe just that year's results?  Silly me. I didn't realize how important the accomplishments a conference did 2+ years ago mattered on a yearly ranking.   I also thought the same standard was to be equitable to all. I did not know the selection person/committee got to cherry pick what data they used to justify between multiple entities.  Thank you for setting me straight.   

Yes. Not only recent postseason success, but this year's non-conference games, and yes, the recent historical trends.

Keith McMillan put it really well in a recent comment:

"And perhaps in no sport ever has there been a run like the where you could guess the Stagg Bowl participants at the beginning of the season and you would have been correct 9 out of 10 years.

"History has been fairly reliable in D3, and so voters aren't going to treat four UMAC wins like they treat four WIAC wins, nor should they."

History is often considered in D-III football rankings because history repeats itself.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 07, 2023, 05:55:56 PM
Allegheny certainly gave W&J enough of a scare!   Caught most of the 4th qtr, and the Gators wouldn't go away.  Impressive sack at the end by W&J to shut down any small remaining chance.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on October 07, 2023, 10:22:28 PM
My sons and I were at the game. First half was all W&J and we were thinking about when we should leave to attend an annual Fraternity get together. Then the weather vane rotated and it was a game. Allegheny dominated  most of the second half, but W&J closed the game out with a strong running attack, clock management, and the sack mentioned above to secure the game. Be interesting to see how the season plays out for the Gators. They could be ready to rise in the PAC hierarchy.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 08, 2023, 05:39:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 06, 2023, 03:24:02 PM]

Yes. Not only recent postseason success, but this year's non-conference games, and yes, the recent historical trends.

Keith McMillan put it really well in a recent comment:

"And perhaps in no sport ever has there been a run like the where you could guess the Stagg Bowl participants at the beginning of the season and you would have been correct 9 out of 10 years.

"History has been fairly reliable in D3, and so voters aren't going to treat four UMAC wins like they treat four WIAC wins, nor should they."

History is often considered in D-III football rankings because history repeats itself.

So what is in 4-1 Endicott history or CCC History that has them ranked ahead of 5-0 Alma, 5-0 Mulhenberg, and 6-0 Grove City?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 08, 2023, 07:20:16 PM
I never said history was the only thing, just a thing.

In this season, Endicott played non-conference games against Ithaca (a loss) and Hardin-Simmons (a win).
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 08, 2023, 08:38:46 PM
Wow, that really is not that impressive.   If they won both it would have been impressive. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: unionpalooza on October 08, 2023, 09:23:54 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 08, 2023, 08:38:46 PM
Wow, that really is not that impressive.   If they won both it would have been impressive.

If dominating the #20 team in the country and narrowly losing to the #15 is not impressive, than Alma, Muhlenberg and Grove City are really unimpressive. None have beaten a ranked team; the best effort is Grove's squeaker over CMU, who is getting votes (effectively #28).  Not clear how dismissing Endicott helps your car here. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 08, 2023, 10:23:10 PM
Endicott lost.  Period. Pat has gone on record that they look at history.  Endicott nor the CCC has ever done anything, so it is not like they can lay claim to their tradition either.  Plus CMU was ranked I believe #22 when GCC beat them. I am just looking to see the logic and some consistency here.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 08, 2023, 10:34:23 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 08, 2023, 10:23:10 PM
Endicott lost.  Period. Pat has gone on record that they look at history.  Endicott nor the CCC has ever done anything, so it is not like they can lay claim to their tradition either.  Plus CMU was ranked I believe #22 when GCC beat them. I am just looking to see the logic and some consistency here.

You are seeming to say that we look only at history. I assure you that's not the case and I'm not sure why you are harping on this as if we are only to consider the history of Endicott and the CCC.

Endicott, narrow loss to No. 15 Ithaca, win against No. 20 Hardin-Simmons, is really perfectly placed right between them, and I'm not sure why that is "not that impressive" to you. I assure you, it's impressive to a lot of people.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: HSCTiger74 on October 09, 2023, 01:41:49 AM
Quote from: mikefln on October 08, 2023, 10:23:10 PM
Endicott lost.  Period. Pat has gone on record that they look at history.  Endicott nor the CCC has ever done anything, so it is not like they can lay claim to their tradition either.  Plus CMU was ranked I believe #22 when GCC beat them. I am just looking to see the logic and some consistency here.

   If you are looking for logic and consistency why are you looking at polls, whether D3 or any others? They're voted on by people, who as we all know (or should) will be pretty inconsistent in their personal interpretation of the available data.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 11, 2023, 02:04:38 PM
As once famously uttered in a movie ... "This bickering is pointless"

Mike, I happen to agree with Endicott's current placement in the polls relative to Grove City, though I do think Pat's charming reply to my first post was a little bit uncharitable to the PAC as a whole.  But, almost everyone on these boards usually seems to think their own conference is underrated (in part because so few of us actually see much of D3 outside our own area, in part because "styles make fights" and you can get some weird results in the limited OOC play we do get to see, etc).  It's not hard to find past posts from the OAC and WIAC where folks claim that like 6 teams from their own league would make the semifinals if they were all allowed into the playoffs.

First, whether you personally agree with this or not, I believe that it's necessary to consider some element of history when making rankings in a sport like Division III football, especially in the first half of the season.  There is just not that much regular-season play between conferences to evaluate teams.  I don't think results from a prior year should override things like head to head results from this year, but if you're trying to peg Endicott and Grove City against one another, it's almost impossible to know how to value a win over Hardin-Simmons vs. a win over Carnegie Mellon without some historical knowledge of how strong the conferences have been and how they have fared in playoff games or big out-of-conference games (even moreso this year with no non-conference games for PAC teams).

Now, it's fair to say that Endicott itself does not have much history on its side, but some of the teams they played this year definitely do (and also are accumulating data for this year that speaks in their favor).  Scoring a win over any of the division's "big dogs" gets you some immediate cred; one of the funnier examples in retrospect being 2012 Buffalo State's shocking upset of #1 UW-Whitewater, vaulting Buffalo State to #19 in the following week's poll despite having a loss to an at-the-time-unremarkable Brockport team the week before upsetting UWW.  Buffalo State promptly lost their next three games, and we would also learn that particular UWW team was not up to the standard of the teams that came before or after.  But any time you beat one of the teams that has graced the top 10 or made deep playoff run in recent memory, that's (understandably) automatically going to put you on the radar of some voters.

Endicott absolutely stomped Hardin-Simmons.  Just pummeled them.  It was 37-3 at one point!  Hardin-Simmons is otherwise 4-0 and (most importantly) has a win over UW-La Crosse, who just beat UW-Whitewater and is top-10 as of the latest poll.  They were ranked #5 at the time Endicott beat them.

(I have a bit of a separate axe to grind / hypothesis here, which is that I think that #5 ranking was potentially unwarranted; IMO no team benefits more in terms of their national reputation than Hardin-Simmons in the "hypotheticals" department - every year, "well gee they would surely make a deep playoff run if only the Texas teams didn't have to play each other in the first round" - I have a pretty good falsification example for this, IMO, but that's beside the point for now)

Endicott has a massive blowout win against a team that was ranked #5 at the time, owners of a win ranked #6 in this week's poll, who just beat the team ranked #7 in this week's poll (who also has wins over #8, 14, and 22 in this week's poll).  That's a huge win.  It's honestly one of the best single results any team in the country has right now.  Their loss is a close one vs. #15 Ithaca, whose sole loss is to #10 JHU.  At some point, yeah, it is hard to know how much of this is just "we think these teams are good and that's why they're ranked high" but the fact is that it's usually because those teams have recent playoff success.

Grove City has had a very good first month and IMO is very much a threat to win a couple of games in the playoffs.  I think Pat's prior post is a little uncharitable to the PAC, and I think there's enough data from recent memory (some decent non-league wins and playoff results) that supports the idea that the PAC #1 is probably a top-15-ish team in most seasons.  But I'm not gonna get all in a twist that they're currently ranked a few spots behind Endicott.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2023, 03:32:28 PM
For what it's worth, I think the voters know that Hardin-Simmons' national rep is based solely on close losses to a national power. Since the NCAA won't pay for travel appropriate to HSU's seed in the playoffs, HSU has rarely gotten the opportunity to play anyone outside of Texas in the postseason (and when not Texas, there's always a chance to travel to Linfield).

HSU has also had difficulty finding teams willing to play them. They perhaps have been the most vocal team publicly looking for non-conference opponents. In addition, as you noted, they do generally do well outside of Texas -- last year going to Platteville and absolutely waxing the Pioneers (T3 WIAC), and this year winning at La Crosse.

And indeed, the context I provided in my post was not charitable to the PAC, but I don't believe any of it was inaccurate. I'd certainly rather have this conversation than griping from a team's assistant coaches on Twitter using an apples-and-oranges comparison to allege a lack of respect in a preseason ranking.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 11, 2023, 04:19:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2023, 03:32:28 PM
For what it's worth, I think the voters know that Hardin-Simmons' national rep is based solely on close losses to a national power. Since the NCAA won't pay for travel appropriate to HSU's seed in the playoffs, HSU has rarely gotten the opportunity to play anyone outside of Texas in the postseason (and when not Texas, there's always a chance to travel to Linfield).

HSU has also had difficulty finding teams willing to play them. They perhaps have been the most vocal team publicly looking for non-conference opponents. In addition, as you noted, they do generally do well outside of Texas -- last year going to Platteville and absolutely waxing the Pioneers (T3 WIAC), and this year winning at La Crosse.

And indeed, the context I provided in my post was not charitable to the PAC, but I don't believe any of it was inaccurate. I'd certainly rather have this conversation than griping from a team's assistant coaches on Twitter using an apples-and-oranges comparison to allege a lack of respect in a preseason ranking.

Well, I agree with you that assistant coaches should not argue rankings with pundits on Twitter, lol.  Just a bad look.  As an (Ex)TartanPlayer, I am now free from such shackles and can express my opinions without fear, especially since Coach Lackner is no longer coaching CMU.

I do have sympathy for HSU about the difficulty getting non-conference opponents.  Since they've been feasting on those weaklings in the WIAC, perhaps they can try some more games against a real conference like the CCC...

(For posterity, one of those Linfield losses came at home, but who's counting)

As a semi-serious point...my "falsification example" is John Carroll.  It's not a perfect fit, but pretty close.  For a solid decade, they have played Mount Union reasonably "tough" almost every year, very close four times, and actually beat them once.  Send JCU and Mount to Texas, give JCU a roadie vs. Mount in the playoffs every year and I think JCU would be looked at about the same way HSU is now.  Oh, surely they're a top-10 program, they just have the misfortune to be stuck on an island playing the Big Brother in their own backyard every year!  Give'em a chance against someone else in the first few rounds and surely they're heading for the semis.

John Carroll, 2013-2022:

2013: 9-1 regular season, 42-34 loss to Mount Union; lost first round to St. John Fisher (at home!)
2014: 9-1 regular season, 31-24 loss to Mount Union; 2 playoff wins (including at Wheaton), lost in quarters to Mount Union
2015: 8-2 regular season, 36-3 loss to Mount Union; missed playoffs (other loss to Ohio Northern, who squeaked into Pool C at 8-2 and won a first-rounder against Franklin before bowing out at UW-Oshkosh)
2016: 9-1 regular season, 31-28 win over Mount Union; 3 playoff wins, lost to UW-Oshkosh in semifinals (won at Mount and UWW in the same season, a rare feat indeed these past 20 years)
2017: 6-4 regular season (close losses to several good teams, yeah, but clearly not championship material)
2018: 9-1 regular season, 23-10 loss to Mount Union; lost first round to Randolph-Macon (at home!)
2019: 9-1 regular season, 37-14 loss to Mount Union, missed playoffs
2020: NA
2021: lost to W&J in non-league play, finished 7-3 and missed playoffs
2022: lost to W&J in non-league play, finished 8-2 and missed playoffs

If JCU played zero non-league games and played Mount Union in the first round of the playoffs every year, they'd look a lot like HSU, right?  They almost never lose to anybody in their conference except Mount Union, and if they had to play UMU in the first round of the playoffs every year we'd probably hear all the same arguments for them that we hear for HSU.  But, lucky for us, we do have some other data on JCU.  They've lost twice at home as a presumptive favorite in seasons where they went 9-1 with close losses to Mount Union.  The last two years (both of which also featured tough, fairly competitive losses to Mount Union) they did us the favor of losing to W&J (who couldn't win this pedestrian old conference either time!) in a non-conference game, sparing us the debate of whether they belonged in the playoffs.  Maybe we need to see Mount Union move into the PAC for a real challenge since the OAC clearly isn't up for the job :)

We'll never know, but my best bet?  Put HSU in the playoffs against a mid-tier conference champ (like the PAC champ) every year and you're getting something like JCU's record, but maybe a little better.  I seriously doubt they're just steamrolling their way past everyone who's not UMHB if they actually had to play these games on the field instead of in everyone's imagination.  I do have a personal opinion that games against your conference rivals are a little different and some of the teams we might assume are really good because they've played their (powerhouse) conference rival close a lot are not just automatically going to have the same level of dominance that their powerhouse conference rival has had if you swap them into the same playoff bracket.  We tend to assume "HSU almost beat UMHB so they're basically going to do the same thing UMHB did against everyone else" and I just don't think that actually happens, which is why JCU has had multiple seasons going "9-1 with a close loss to Mount Union" that ended with a first-round playoff loss at home to a plain-old-"good" team like St. John Fisher or Randolph-Macon.

This probably sounds like I'm dumping on JCU and HSU.  I'm not!  I'm just saying that I think it's probably fallacious to assume because they share a conference with one of the powerhouses and usually play that powerhouse really close, that means they would automatically beat everyone else that powerhouse beats if they had the same playoff slate.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2023, 05:33:15 PM
That's certainly possible. The ASC-PAC games haven't gone favorably for the PAC in the past, but those were Thomas More and W&J against UMHB rather than Grove City or Carnegie Mellon against HSU.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on October 11, 2023, 05:43:46 PM
Ex-Tartan and Pat +k for a plethora of solid info and perspective.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 11, 2023, 08:43:57 PM
Also, w.r.t. JCU and the PAC, CWRU beat them both times they played (in 2010 and 2011), before CWRU was in the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2023, 10:41:26 PM
JCU finished tied for fourth in the conference in those years, and were not threats to make the Top 25.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 06:14:38 AM
Yeah, that was before JCU really rose to their more recent level, so I'm inclined to agree with Pat that isn't particularly relevant to my point (though it is fun anyway).

This isn't really a post about how the PAC teams stack up against John Carroll historically, but more generally how I think we'll tend give a little too much credit to "second place team from league with national powerhouse who doesn't lose to anyone else in their league and sometimes gives the national power a close game" unless we have other data. In the case of JCU 2013-22, we have that other data - in several years of going "9-1 with a reasonably competitive loss to Mount Union" they sometimes made a playoff run and other times lost at home in the first round to regular-old-good teams. They're probably a top-25 program over that period but we shouldn't act like they'd automatically replicate Mount Union's playoff success just because they give Mount Union a close game sometimes. Similarly, my (now horse-beaten-to-death-in-this-thread-so-will-let-it-go) opinion is that HSU gets too much benefit of the doubt from "occasionally playing close games against UMHB" and losing in the first round of the playoffs vs UMHB or Linfield every year, a presumption being that HSU would make a deep playoff run if only they didn't get stuck playing UMHB, and I suspect they'd look a lot like John Carroll over the past decade. Occasionally win a game or two, occasionally lose in the first round.  Yet they've been ranked in the preseason top 10 for the past five seasons running, including the season after a season where they lost a game to someone other than UMHB so we can't even apply the "they only ever use to UMHB" excuse (in 2019, they lost to Texas Lutheran, who also lost to 3-loss Hendrix for one of the few out-of-conference data points we get on those teams).  Being on an island has its disadvantages - like getting stuck playing the ogre of your league most years if you do make the playoffs - but it also has its advantages, like folks just assuming all the Texas teams are awesome because we don't see the rest of them against anyone else that often.  We get enough data on John Carroll and the rest of the OAC against other teams to know that just playing a close game with Mount Union every other year doesn't equate to "99% as good as Mount Union" but we don't really get that on HSU.

Wheaton/North Central is another decent parallel here, though I haven't done the same deep dive I did into John Carroll.

I mean...Endicott is the exact sort of team that (some) folks complain should be muscled out of the playoffs to allow more second chances for the HSU's of the world, or that teams like Endicott should be sent to UMHB in the playoffs to let HSU play somebody else. So HSU gets a chance to play the exact sort of team they'd play in a first round game if the NCAA had infinity dollars and decided to break up the Texas teams in the first round. They fell behind 37-3! That level of laying an egg shouldn't be ignored, injuries or not. And since we've been talking in this thread about how you need to take "history" into account, my argument would be that this game now is part of that "history" so next year when HSU is ranked 12th or whatever at the start of the season because "they'd have made a playoff run if only they didn't have to play another Texas team!" any fan of any conference that's not based on Texas should just copy and paste the link to that box score over and over until someone admits that maybe HSU is not, in fact, 99.9% of UMHB but more like "just another pretty good team" like Randolph Macon and Johns Hopkins and Ithaca and (insert PAC champ here) and a bunch of other teams that are consistent playoff contenders but not in the nation's ELITE TIER
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
For what it's worth, I think people come by this belief honestly -- John Carroll had a run to the national semifinals in 2002 when unshackled from Mount Union. They did it again in 2016. Capital had two years in a row where it advanced to the quarterfinals before getting eliminated by Mount Union in a pair of three-point games. It's not unreasonable to believe it could also be true in the ASC, except that teams basically never get unshackled from UMHB.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
For what it's worth, I think people come by this belief honestly -- John Carroll had a run to the national semifinals in 2002 when unshackled from Mount Union. They did it again in 2016. Capital had two years in a row where it advanced to the quarterfinals before getting eliminated by Mount Union in a pair of three-point games. It's not unreasonable to believe it could also be true in the ASC, except that teams basically never get unshackled from UMHB.

Hey, Pat, let's be clear, I didn't say that this could never happen.  I said that as often as this does happen, I think we'd see a different result, like maybe a first- or second-round playoff loss to just another "pretty good top-25ish" team instead of "death star annihilating all other teams until they lost to their nemesis again in the playoffs."  There was a time when the OAC runner-up was (almost) like that...but those days seem pretty long gone.

Why do we only count the deep playoff runs when speculating about how good "second team in conference with national powerhouse who sometimes almost beats them" is when unshackled from their nemesis?  Don't the losses count, too?

John Carroll has also lost twice at home in the first round to regular teams from regular middle-of-the-pack D3 conferences that nobody ever really thinks is producing a national contender!  In 2013 JCU finished week 11 ranked #9 in the poll and promptly lost at home to #25 St. John Fisher in the first round.  In 2018 they finished the season #8 in the poll and lost at home to an 8-2 Randolph-Macon team that received 0 votes (not a single goddamn vote!) in the week 11 top 25.  RMC had a loss to 5-5 Ferrum and a 30-point loss to Johns Hopkins and was nobody's idea of a threat to make a deep playoff run.  Both of those were 9-1 JCU teams with close Mount Union losses, close enough that the poll voters (reasonably) put'em into the top 10 in the last regular season poll.

In the past decade (2013-22, discounting the COVID "2020" season) John Carroll has lost four total OAC games to teams other than Mount Union (Ohio Northern and Heidelberg, twice each; two of these came in the same season, and one other came in a year where they actually beat Mount Union and made the playoffs anyway).  During this time they made the playoffs four times.  One resulted in a semifinal run, one in quarterfinal-run-ending-with-loss-to-Mount-Union, and two ended with first-round losses at home to teams that weren't remotely in the national title picture (in years where JCU ended the season poll ranked in the top 10).  The last two years we've been spared this happening yet again since they lost to W&J in the season opener both times suggesting that year probably also would have ended with an early playoff loss if they had played a lesser opponent in the opener and managed to squeak in through Pool C (after all, W&J couldn't even win the middling old PAC either year). 

You don't get to just count the wins!  The losses have to count too!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
For what it's worth, I think people come by this belief honestly -- John Carroll had a run to the national semifinals in 2002 when unshackled from Mount Union. They did it again in 2016. Capital had two years in a row where it advanced to the quarterfinals before getting eliminated by Mount Union in a pair of three-point games. It's not unreasonable to believe it could also be true in the ASC, except that teams basically never get unshackled from UMHB.

Hey, Pat, let's be clear, I didn't say that this could never happen. 

And all I'm saying is that there is a reason why voters and fans might feel this way, and it's not just assumptions.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
For what it's worth, I think people come by this belief honestly -- John Carroll had a run to the national semifinals in 2002 when unshackled from Mount Union. They did it again in 2016. Capital had two years in a row where it advanced to the quarterfinals before getting eliminated by Mount Union in a pair of three-point games. It's not unreasonable to believe it could also be true in the ASC, except that teams basically never get unshackled from UMHB.

Hey, Pat, let's be clear, I didn't say that this could never happen. 

And all I'm saying is that there is a reason why voters and fans might feel this way, and it's not just assumptions.

And all I'm saying is that there is a reason why voters and fans who feel this way should look harder.  They are looking at an incomplete picture of the relevant data, selectively thinking of times they remember a second-banana-who-barely-lost-to-national-power went deep into the playoffs and down-weighting times where that presumptive second-banana-who-barely-lost-to-national-power went out earlier against a merely okay playoff team. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 11:14:07 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
For what it's worth, I think people come by this belief honestly -- John Carroll had a run to the national semifinals in 2002 when unshackled from Mount Union. They did it again in 2016. Capital had two years in a row where it advanced to the quarterfinals before getting eliminated by Mount Union in a pair of three-point games. It's not unreasonable to believe it could also be true in the ASC, except that teams basically never get unshackled from UMHB.

Hey, Pat, let's be clear, I didn't say that this could never happen. 

And all I'm saying is that there is a reason why voters and fans might feel this way, and it's not just assumptions.

And all I'm saying is that there is a reason why voters and fans who feel this way should look harder.  They are looking at an incomplete picture of the relevant data, selectively thinking of times they remember a second-banana-who-barely-lost-to-national-power went deep into the playoffs and down-weighting times where that presumptive second-banana-who-barely-lost-to-national-power went out earlier against a merely okay playoff team.

I don't think they forget such things, XTP. I just think that they are more likely to believe that it *could happen* again because it *has happened* already, multiple times. Most of the voters (maybe not all of the shorter-tenured ones) know this data -- they are just acting on the data differently than you think they should. They're not necessarily looking at an incomplete picture -- they're just interpreting it differently than you want them to.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: IC798891 on October 12, 2023, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
It's not unreasonable to believe it could also be true in the ASC, except that teams basically never get unshackled from UMHB.

So, if a playoff caliber team from the ASC played a playoff team that wasn't of UMHB's eliteness — because let's be honest, sending them out to Linfield isn't a walk in the park — they might go on a run?

Hypothetically then, if Hardin Simmons played a playoff game against someone other than Trinity or UMHB they could make a deep run? Like, if they were matched up with a team from the traditionally weaker New England region in Round 1? Maybe Endicott?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 02:42:18 PM
Quote from: IC798891 on October 12, 2023, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 09:55:42 AM
It's not unreasonable to believe it could also be true in the ASC, except that teams basically never get unshackled from UMHB.

So, if a playoff caliber team from the ASC played a playoff team that wasn't of UMHB's eliteness — because let's be honest, sending them out to Linfield isn't a walk in the park — they might go on a run?

Hypothetically then, if Hardin Simmons played a playoff game against someone other than Trinity or UMHB they could make a deep run? Like, if they were matched up with a team from the traditionally weaker New England region in Round 1? Maybe Endicott?

Welcome back. Feel like we have already talked about this in this very conversation. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 02:57:26 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 11:14:07 AM


You don't get to just count the wins!  The losses have to count too!

ExTartan  thank you for all you said and the serious thought and work you put into your argument.  The quote above basically states my feelings on the matter.  You as a CMU grad just said it more concise than I could.

I have no problem with Endicott, but to me the rational with their ranking and the PAC teams and other teams seem wishy washy and I was looking for what the rational is.  I basically got told, "We own this site, therofre the ranking and we say so."  That is why I stopped arguing.  But I do applaud the discourse that you provide. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 03:00:01 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 02:57:26 PM
I basically got told, "We own this site, therofre the ranking and we say so." 

Nobody said that in any way, shape or form, Mike.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 03:07:20 PM
I don't have much time this week to do attendance and add my thoughts for all teams. 

My Power Rankings after week 6 -

Tier 1

1) Grove City-
2) W&J-
3) CMU –

Tier 2

4) Case- They are clearly above Westminster imo but not at the others level yet.  But they still can prove themselves against W&J and CMU to hoist themselves up there.

Tier 3

5) Westminster-

Tier 4

6) Allegheny- Came back and battled W&J hard in 2nd half.  I think they are a notch above the rest of the teams but not enough to be in Westminster's level without beating them or another power team.

Tier 5

7) Thiel-
8) SVC-
9)Geneva-
10) Waynesburg-
11) Bethany-
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 03:00:01 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 02:57:26 PM
I basically got told, "We own this site, therofre the ranking and we say so." 

Nobody said that in any way, shape or form, Mike.

Pat may be charmless, rigid, and a bore, but he definitely never said this nor gave any of this vibe.  Heck, the rankings (by 25 voters) are mostly done by people who do not "own" this site at all.

If the voters want to be wrong about ranking teams like HSU too high because they occasionally rub elbows with UMHB, that's not Pat's fault.  And it's great he provides this forum so I can rant about them being wrong.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 03:00:01 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 02:57:26 PM
I basically got told, "We own this site, therofre the ranking and we say so." 

Nobody said that in any way, shape or form, Mike.

Pat may be charmless, rigid, and a bore, but he definitely never said this nor gave any of this vibe.  Heck, the rankings (by 25 voters) are mostly done by people who do not "own" this site at all.

If the voters want to be wrong about ranking teams like HSU too high because they occasionally rub elbows with UMHB, that's not Pat's fault.  And it's great he provides this forum so I can rant about them being wrong.

You are entitled to your opinion, but when I asked about A, I was told about B.  When I mentioned B, then I was told about A & C.  When I brought A & C up, I was told about B again with a little of A.  So Pat and you are correct that no one said, "Because we said so!".  But the run around on finding the basic logic and the lack of consistency, certainly leaves the impression to me that "It's my ball, and I am going home" kind of vibe. 

With that said I can certainly appreciate the difficulty of ranking a Top 25 with so many teams, many you don't physically see play. Hell, I make a Power Ranking of the PAC for my own amusement, and it is tough because I don't get to see all the games.   I do agree, and I also appreciate that he provides this forum.  He does seem to handle criticism well, and not hold it against us visitators.  I also appreciate how much work it must be running these sites. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 03:00:01 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 02:57:26 PM
I basically got told, "We own this site, therofre the ranking and we say so." 

Nobody said that in any way, shape or form, Mike.

Pat may be charmless, rigid, and a bore, but he definitely never said this nor gave any of this vibe.  Heck, the rankings (by 25 voters) are mostly done by people who do not "own" this site at all.

If the voters want to be wrong about ranking teams like HSU too high because they occasionally rub elbows with UMHB, that's not Pat's fault.  And it's great he provides this forum so I can rant about them being wrong.

You are entitled to your opinion, but when I asked about A, I was told about B.  When I mentioned B, then I was told about A & C.  When I brought A & C up, I was told about B again with a little of A.  So Pat and you are correct that no one said, "Because we said so!".  But the run around on finding the basic logic and the lack of consistency, certainly leaves the impression to me that "It's my ball, and I am going home" kind of vibe. 

With that said I can certainly appreciate the difficulty of ranking a Top 25 with so many teams, many you don't physically see play. Hell, I make a Power Ranking of the PAC for my own amusement, and it is tough because I don't get to see all the games.   I do agree, and I also appreciate that he provides this forum.  He does seem to handle criticism well, and not hold it against us visitators.  I also appreciate how much work it must be running these sites.

I think where you lost me was when you insisted on applying only A, B, or C (whichever one is historical trend) to one of your cases in point. When you do that, and then do what you did earlier today, it is hard to have a real discussion because I can't even be sure you are reading what I'm saying.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3fanboy on October 12, 2023, 06:58:30 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 05:41:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 03:00:01 PM
Quote from: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 02:57:26 PM
I basically got told, "We own this site, therofre the ranking and we say so." 

Nobody said that in any way, shape or form, Mike.

Pat may be charmless, rigid, and a bore, but he definitely never said this nor gave any of this vibe.  Heck, the rankings (by 25 voters) are mostly done by people who do not "own" this site at all.

If the voters want to be wrong about ranking teams like HSU too high because they occasionally rub elbows with UMHB, that's not Pat's fault.  And it's great he provides this forum so I can rant about them being wrong.

100%.  HSU is comically overrated year after year due to an annual big win by losing close to UMHB, but that isn't Pat's fault. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 12, 2023, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 12, 2023, 06:50:04 PM


I think where you lost me was when you insisted on applying only A, B, or C (whichever one is historical trend) to one of your cases in point. When you do that, and then do what you did earlier today, it is hard to have a real discussion because I can't even be sure you are reading what I'm saying.

It works both ways, I can't be sure you are reading what I am saying either.

I will try and lay it out and I hope I can explain it clearly.  Not going to lie, writing is not a strength of mine.  I am more of a numbers' guy.

This all started because in week 3 CMU was ranked #14 (277 votes) and lost to unranked and not even receiving votes GCC.  W&J for all intents and purposes was ranked 27th (29 votes).  Week 4 CMU dropped to #24 (58 votes) and GCC was basically ranked 27th (44 votes) and W&J 28th (43 votes).  I said nothing about this, but the voters should have been smart enough to vote GCC into the top 25 and CMU out of Top 25 and into others the receiving votes.  If GCC won against W&J no harm no foul, and if they lost then they drop and W&J is in Top 25. Yet they were not savvy enough to do so. Which brought this mess in week 5 on. 

Week 5 action saw GCC beating W&J by a TD, just as they did to CMU the week before, and CMU won their game that week 5.  At that point the Week 5 poll moved GCC to #23 (70 Votes), CMU dropping out of the Top 25 after a win, to #28 (27 votes) and W&J no longer receiving votes. That is the PAC losing 48 votes.   I questioned the logic of dropping W&J out for the same resume that CMU had, in fact you could make the argument that they had a better resume since they beat Westminster already.  I found it shameful that the PAC had just 1 team (GCC) ranked #23 and only 1 team (CMU) receiving votes with the same resume as another team (W&J) who was no longer receiving votes.  You mentioned that the PAC votes just got condensed.  Losing 48 votes is not condensing the PAC vote.  CMU was previously #14 when GCC beat them and the new ranked PAC team (GCC) had 4 credible wins that is as good if not better than anyone else in the country, which you corrected me about UW-Whitewater which I conceded too.  There is no denying at that point in the season UW Whitewater was the only team who was unbeaten who played as difficult of a schedule.  The other teams who played harder schedules had at least 1 lose.  Let's call this point A

So, Question 1- Do you see where there is a lack of logic with the above information?

Now at this point the conference rank came up.  I discussed how the PAC is still viewed like it is still 2013 as a middle of the pack conference (#12).  I argued that they are a top 1/3 conference, like #7 or 8.  That's my opinion, no harm no foul having differing opinions from each other here. Then there was banter between you and ExTartan, and this is when you first suggested history, which we will call point B.  I then called out the lack applying the rules to all teams and you doubled down on history to which I argued why does the results of 2 + years ago matter today.  I got what I call a nonsense answer of "history repeats itself" to justify the rules not applying to all.   

This is when I wanted more clarification and brought up Endicott and their and the CCCs lack of good history.  I brought up 2 teams who are ranked below Endicott who are undefeated, and both have better history than Endicott and I brought up GCC who reps the PAC who has better history than the CCC.  You then stated history is not everything and people are impressed by their win of HS and their close lose to # 15 Ithaca.  I have never seen, not 1 time, a close lost carry more weight than actually winning against good teams. With all the BS that is D1 rankings, even they never pulled a stunt like that with Boise St, Utah (before they were Pac12), UCF, etc.  Once a nontraditional power loses, they were out of the top 25 and that is with ¼ of the teams than D3 has?  This is where you stated I was only looking at history, instead of what I am assuming was strength of schedule since you kept mentioning the win against HS and the close lose to #15 Ithaca like GCC's win against #14 CMU meant nothing.  We will call SOS Point C. 

The way SOS is supposed to work in relationship to ranking is if you win the game, it makes you look better. Losing close games only matter when you play a top 5 team and you yourself are already highly ranked and therefore don't drop as bad.  GCC is winning games against a rather strong SOS, Endicott lost 1 of their 2 games so their SOS does not mean as much when you lose.  But you still argued otherwise. This was the point you merged point A and B and even part C, come to think of it, altogether again.

Question 2- Do you now see, where I believe the goal post keep moving and it has a feel of "Because I said so, if you don't like it, I will take my ball and go home?

Listen, it is your site and therefore your rules.  You can rank teams however you want.  But if you put it out there, others and I are going to question the logic/consistency.  I did not see consistent logic, nor do I expect too.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 09:24:11 PM
Pat is not personally ranking the teams, Mike. The fact that it's "his" site is kind of irrelevant when it's an aggregation of 25 people's opinions. And FTR, I do think the PAC is a little underrated as a conference, but I'm not terribly surprised how the polls have shaken out. CMU got a boost from last year with a strong playoff performance, but that's usually not going to be automatically transferred to the next team that beats them.

I do think voters are a little slow to move teams down from preseason rankings which is why we often see silly things like Grove City still getting fewer votes than CMU a week after beating CMU, but again, that's not happening on a single ballot but across aggregation of 25 ballots.  Also worth noting, Endicott was still ranked behind HSU the week after beating HSU 37-10, which I found particularly silly (how are you still ranking a team ahead of one they just lost to 37-10?)

Not Pat's fault though :)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on October 12, 2023, 11:34:00 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 12, 2023, 09:24:11 PM
Pat is not personally ranking the teams, Mike. The fact that it's "his" site is kind of irrelevant when it's an aggregation of 25 people's opinions. And FTR, I do think the PAC is a little underrated as a conference, but I'm not terribly surprised how the polls have shaken out. CMU got a boost from last year with a strong playoff performance, but that's usually not going to be automatically transferred to the next team that beats them.

I do think voters are a little slow to move teams down from preseason rankings which is why we often see silly things like Grove City still getting fewer votes than CMU a week after beating CMU, but again, that's not happening on a single ballot but across aggregation of 25 ballots.  Also worth noting, Endicott was still ranked behind HSU the week after beating HSU 37-10, which I found particularly silly (how are you still ranking a team ahead of one they just lost to 37-10?)

Not Pat's fault though :)

Excellent Point! There's 25 different voters with 25 different perspectives and logic for how they rank teams. Pat has provided some explanation for why the polls may have shifted certain ways but it's not something he controls.

Some voters think it's appropriate to rank the defending champs #1 until they get beat, some
don't, there's all sorts of variability.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: CNU85 on October 13, 2023, 11:19:21 AM
"The D3football.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly. Points are awarded on a 25-24-23-22-etc. basis."


LIES! We all know Pat ranks the teams all by his lonesome! And that's the ABC's about that! (for those who need a little direction...this is sarcastic!)

;D :P ::)
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 13, 2023, 02:57:30 PM
Another post-season data point for the PAC, in 2017 PAC champ CWRU beat CCIW (a top ranked conference) co-champ Illinois Wesleyan 28-0 in first round then lost to eventual champ Mt Union in the second round.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 13, 2023, 03:14:19 PM
I realize Pat does not rank them all on his own.  But his arguments for why the rankings are the way they are are not logical in my mind.  If they are logical to yinz, then so be it.  When I was talking about it being his site, I was referring to what I consider his weak and contradictory reasoning  for the rankings "working .  Apparently I am the moron, as everyone else  seems fine with his explanation.  To me, it is contradictory.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 13, 2023, 03:41:37 PM
I think everyone's point is that there are 24 other voters. I can't give you the deep insight into the mind of all 24 other voters. And yes, sometimes head-to-head results don't line up. Often, not all head-to-head results can line up. And sometimes human beings who vote don't give Grove City the benefit of the doubt that they might give W&J and Carnegie Mellon or other non-PAC teams who have been to the playoffs before, or other teams who have had quality non-conference results this season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 13, 2023, 04:09:39 PM
Although I do think the PAC doesn't get enough credit around here, I can't argue with the line of reasoning behind Grove City's current ranking.  It's hard to know if the CMU and W&J wins indicate that the PAC as a whole is down this year, or if GCC is that much better than they historically have been, especially since there are no OOC games.  I believe CWRU is down from previous years, but took them to OT, so, again, I don't know if this means CWRU played up, if they are better than I expected, if GCC played down, or if the conference as a whole is a little weak this year.  The best way for GCC to build a reputation and prove the naysayers wrong is to get a good playoff win or even two.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 13, 2023, 04:20:10 PM
Honestly, it is whatever for me at this point.  I am done talking about this for now as I expect GCC to win out the regular season finish in the high teens. I expect the winner of the CMU/CWRU/W&J triangle to be receiving votes (hopefully in close to being ranked).  I just fail to see logic behind it, but it is what it is at this point.  Maybe next year I will jump on the soap box again, but for right now I am done with this topic.  More than likely GCC is carrying the PAC Banner this year in the playoffs and hopefully they make a nice deep run, and the other 3 teams can get Bowl bids and win those games. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 13, 2023, 05:26:46 PM
CWRU isn't a member of ECAC, so, it can't go to an ECAC bowl.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 14, 2023, 04:54:28 PM
Just watched the CWRU v. Westminster game over the internet.

DOMINATING win for CWRU on homecoming.

If the Spartans keep improving at this rate..........a 9-1 finish won't be out of reach.

We'll see!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 14, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
A lot of football left to play, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that CWRU isn't in the group with GCC, W&J, and CMU right now.  Also, I think Westminster might be in the lower group of PAC teams now.  It seems like there's the big 4 and then the rest, and there's quite a gap in between.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2023, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 14, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
A lot of football left to play, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that CWRU isn't in the group with GCC, W&J, and CMU right now.  Also, I think Westminster might be in the lower group of PAC teams now.  It seems like there's the big 4 and then the rest, and there's quite a gap in between.

Bit nervous to make this proclamation since CMU has yet to play Westminster, and last year Westminster gave CMU an absolute fit (CMU could not move the ball at all and won 10-0 despite being outgained 212-105 on a rainy night thanks to a pick-six that stood up as the only touchdown of the game).  But...yes, Westminster's first three results against the others in the "top 5" seem to suggest that they're running fifth out of that group this year.  I still think Westminster stands pretty clearly above the jumble below, although Allegheny maybe will have something to say this week.

As for that top echelon...CMU gets to play everyone the rest of the way so they'll sort themselves out over the next month.  I do agree that CWRU is, as of this writing, clearly in that top group.  Three-point loss to Grove City and the decisive win over Westminster definitely puts them in that top 4 for now.  Barring a surprise, Grove City is walking away with the belt for this year, but one-score wins over CWRU, CMU, and W&J suggests to me that all 4 are pretty close to one another and probably classify as a grouped "Tier 1" for this PAC season wth Westminster hanging out below them but above everyone else.

The bottom half of the league is a bit messy.  OK, a lot messy.  I choose to take a bit of a "glass half full" take on that: it's actually pretty fun!  The way it's going, nobody has a clue who's going to win a game between any pair of those six teams.  I kind of love it that the teams in the bottom half of the league are all beating each other, those programs get something for their season highlight reels, the seniors get a memory of walking off a winner at least once here and there.  But boy, if you're actually trying to rank them...I thought St. Vincent might put themselves into that 6th spot (already had wins over Allegheny and Geneva, only had lost to teams from the top tier) and then previously winless Waynesburg shuts them down.  Allegheny seems to have the highest ceiling of "the rest" - having made CMU work hard for it a few weeks ago, and of course the exciting comeback bid against W&J - but they also lost to both Geneva and St. Vincent.  A win this week vs. Westminster would be a bit of a breakthrough for them.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 16, 2023, 10:35:56 AM
^Great post.  To echo some of what you're saying, the standings are so interesting at this snapsnot in time:

- Three 1-loss teams, with their only losses being by one score each to the top dog
- The bottom six teams looking like truly "Any Given Saturday" against each other
- Westminster seemingly smack dab in the middle

2023 PAC Football Standings   
Grove City                    7-0   
Carnegie Mellon            6-1
Case Western Reserve   5-1
W&J                             5-1   
Westminster                 3-3   
Geneva                        2-4
Saint Vincent                2-4
Allegheny                     2-5   
Thiel                            2-5   
Waynesburg                 1-5   
Bethany                       0-6   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GCC Alumnus on October 16, 2023, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2023, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 14, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
A lot of football left to play, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that CWRU isn't in the group with GCC, W&J, and CMU right now.  Also, I think Westminster might be in the lower group of PAC teams now.  It seems like there's the big 4 and then the rest, and there's quite a gap in between.

Bit nervous to make this proclamation since CMU has yet to play Westminster, and last year Westminster gave CMU an absolute fit (CMU could not move the ball at all and won 10-0 despite being outgained 212-105 on a rainy night thanks to a pick-six that stood up as the only touchdown of the game).  But...yes, Westminster's first three results against the others in the "top 5" seem to suggest that they're running fifth out of that group this year.  I still think Westminster stands pretty clearly above the jumble below, although Allegheny maybe will have something to say this week.

As for that top echelon...CMU gets to play everyone the rest of the way so they'll sort themselves out over the next month.  I do agree that CWRU is, as of this writing, clearly in that top group.  Three-point loss to Grove City and the decisive win over Westminster definitely puts them in that top 4 for now.  Barring a surprise, Grove City is walking away with the belt for this year, but one-score wins over CWRU, CMU, and W&J suggests to me that all 4 are pretty close to one another and probably classify as a grouped "Tier 1" for this PAC season wth Westminster hanging out below them but above everyone else.
Just to add a note to this, GCC beat Case in Cleveland for the first time ever. I was concerned after running the gauntlet of Case, CMU & W&J in successive weeks that they would let down against Geneva and didn't. They didn't against the Gators, either.
The Wolverines remaining opponents have a combined record of 4-15. If they take care of business, they're PAC champs. Now, will they get a home playoff game remains to be seen. I kinda hope so.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2023, 11:12:31 AM
Quote from: GCC Alumnus on October 16, 2023, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2023, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 14, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
A lot of football left to play, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that CWRU isn't in the group with GCC, W&J, and CMU right now.  Also, I think Westminster might be in the lower group of PAC teams now.  It seems like there's the big 4 and then the rest, and there's quite a gap in between.

Bit nervous to make this proclamation since CMU has yet to play Westminster, and last year Westminster gave CMU an absolute fit (CMU could not move the ball at all and won 10-0 despite being outgained 212-105 on a rainy night thanks to a pick-six that stood up as the only touchdown of the game).  But...yes, Westminster's first three results against the others in the "top 5" seem to suggest that they're running fifth out of that group this year.  I still think Westminster stands pretty clearly above the jumble below, although Allegheny maybe will have something to say this week.

As for that top echelon...CMU gets to play everyone the rest of the way so they'll sort themselves out over the next month.  I do agree that CWRU is, as of this writing, clearly in that top group.  Three-point loss to Grove City and the decisive win over Westminster definitely puts them in that top 4 for now.  Barring a surprise, Grove City is walking away with the belt for this year, but one-score wins over CWRU, CMU, and W&J suggests to me that all 4 are pretty close to one another and probably classify as a grouped "Tier 1" for this PAC season wth Westminster hanging out below them but above everyone else.
Just to add a note to this, GCC beat Case in Cleveland for the first time ever. I was concerned after running the gauntlet of Case, CMU & W&J in successive weeks that they would let down against Geneva and didn't. They didn't against the Gators, either.
The Wolverines remaining opponents have a combined record of 4-15. If they take care of business, they're PAC champs. Now, will they get a home playoff game remains to be seen. I kinda hope so.

Welcome GCC Alumnus!  Glad to have another school represented here.  Despite what Pat & Greg needle themselves/us for still having a forum with "2005 technology" - LONG LIVE D3BOARDS!

Absolutely agree that the right attitude for GCC to have is exactly what you said: take care of business.  Don't take anyone lightly.  We on the boards have the luxury of speaking a bit more frankly and less in coach-speak :P

I think a 10-0 GCC team will have a pretty good chance to host...the closed schedule basically guarantees middle-of-the-pack SOS and (probably) a 1-0 record against regionally ranked opponents.  The lack of OOC opponents unfortunately limits any ability for the PAC to enhance that resume.  I'd love for Pat, Greg, and any other longtime D3 Playoff Geeks to chime in...but if you were GCC, I presume you've gotta be rooting for one of (CMU, W&J, CWRU) to run the table against the others and finish 9-1 which (probably...though not 100% certain) gets you the best chance at a "regionally ranked" win?  Maybe if you get a clean 10-0 / 9-1 / 8-2 / 7-3 at the top you could even get lucky with the (second place) 9-1 ranked and the (third place) 8-2 squeezing in at the very bottom of the final RR's.  You definitely don't want any of the (CMU, W&J, CWRU) group to lose to anyone else - eg you definitely want CMU to beat Westminster to make sure the "best wins" they have are against teams with the best possible records.  A funny quirk of the closed system.  And I think you're better off with the clean 9-1, 8-2, 7-3 vs. any combination of these teams beating each other (three 8-2's among those three could mean that none of them end up in the final RR's).

When your SOS is a guaranteed .500, the only path you have to better criteria on paper seems to be more teams regionally ranked, so you don't benefit from any upsets of team #2 or #3 in your conference.  Need them to finish with the best records you can so a couple of them eke into the final RR's.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2023, 11:57:05 AM
About the technology -- I'm just still glad that it runs! But it is the reason why it goes down so often.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2023, 11:58:45 AM
About the rankings, yeah, it's probably best for seeding chances if there's a 10-0 team, a 9-1 team and an 8-2 team. It's been so long since we had a conference with a closed schedule (2000) that I don't know that we can really draw from any of the track record.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 18, 2023, 03:20:37 PM
My Power Rankings after week 7 -

Tier 1

1) Grove City- One game at a time, don't lose focus and they are the PAC rep in the playoffs 
2A) W&J- Big game this week for spot number 2. 
2B) CMU – Big game this week for spot number 2. 

Tier 2

4) Case- They did play GCC the closest so far this year, but they were also home.  They will get their chance as soon as next week to prove they belong in Tier 1

Tier 3

5) Westminster- There is a much noticeable drop between them and the top 4 teams
6) Allegheny- I am giving them respect, if they lose against Westminster and Thiel I may have to put them with the rest of the pack at the bottom.

Tier 4


7) SVC- A sure fire lose this week with GCC.  After that have 3 games they can win all of them to finish a strong 5-5.
8)Geneva- Picks up the win over Thiel.  4 games left and 2 of them are winnable.  1 of them is Westminster which will be a battle to win.  Leaving only the W&J game a a sure thing lose.
9) Thiel- 3 games left.  1 a sure fire lose to GCC.  1 is winnable.  Then Allegheny which is winnable but will take a very strong showing.
10) Waynesburg- Finally got a win.  4 games left and only 2 of them are winnable.
11) Bethany- The only winless team left and still needing to play GCC.  The best chance of victiory is Waynesburg and SVC both at home.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GCC Alumnus on October 19, 2023, 11:49:06 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2023, 11:12:31 AM
Quote from: GCC Alumnus on October 16, 2023, 10:52:33 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 16, 2023, 09:56:19 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on October 14, 2023, 06:59:31 PM
A lot of football left to play, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that CWRU isn't in the group with GCC, W&J, and CMU right now.  Also, I think Westminster might be in the lower group of PAC teams now.  It seems like there's the big 4 and then the rest, and there's quite a gap in between.

Bit nervous to make this proclamation since CMU has yet to play Westminster, and last year Westminster gave CMU an absolute fit (CMU could not move the ball at all and won 10-0 despite being outgained 212-105 on a rainy night thanks to a pick-six that stood up as the only touchdown of the game).  But...yes, Westminster's first three results against the others in the "top 5" seem to suggest that they're running fifth out of that group this year.  I still think Westminster stands pretty clearly above the jumble below, although Allegheny maybe will have something to say this week.

As for that top echelon...CMU gets to play everyone the rest of the way so they'll sort themselves out over the next month.  I do agree that CWRU is, as of this writing, clearly in that top group.  Three-point loss to Grove City and the decisive win over Westminster definitely puts them in that top 4 for now.  Barring a surprise, Grove City is walking away with the belt for this year, but one-score wins over CWRU, CMU, and W&J suggests to me that all 4 are pretty close to one another and probably classify as a grouped "Tier 1" for this PAC season wth Westminster hanging out below them but above everyone else.
Just to add a note to this, GCC beat Case in Cleveland for the first time ever. I was concerned after running the gauntlet of Case, CMU & W&J in successive weeks that they would let down against Geneva and didn't. They didn't against the Gators, either.
The Wolverines remaining opponents have a combined record of 4-15. If they take care of business, they're PAC champs. Now, will they get a home playoff game remains to be seen. I kinda hope so.

Welcome GCC Alumnus!  Glad to have another school represented here.  Despite what Pat & Greg needle themselves/us for still having a forum with "2005 technology" - LONG LIVE D3BOARDS!

Absolutely agree that the right attitude for GCC to have is exactly what you said: take care of business.  Don't take anyone lightly.  We on the boards have the luxury of speaking a bit more frankly and less in coach-speak :P

I think a 10-0 GCC team will have a pretty good chance to host...the closed schedule basically guarantees middle-of-the-pack SOS and (probably) a 1-0 record against regionally ranked opponents.  The lack of OOC opponents unfortunately limits any ability for the PAC to enhance that resume.  I'd love for Pat, Greg, and any other longtime D3 Playoff Geeks to chime in...but if you were GCC, I presume you've gotta be rooting for one of (CMU, W&J, CWRU) to run the table against the others and finish 9-1 which (probably...though not 100% certain) gets you the best chance at a "regionally ranked" win?  Maybe if you get a clean 10-0 / 9-1 / 8-2 / 7-3 at the top you could even get lucky with the (second place) 9-1 ranked and the (third place) 8-2 squeezing in at the very bottom of the final RR's.  You definitely don't want any of the (CMU, W&J, CWRU) group to lose to anyone else - eg you definitely want CMU to beat Westminster to make sure the "best wins" they have are against teams with the best possible records.  A funny quirk of the closed system.  And I think you're better off with the clean 9-1, 8-2, 7-3 vs. any combination of these teams beating each other (three 8-2's among those three could mean that none of them end up in the final RR's).

When your SOS is a guaranteed .500, the only path you have to better criteria on paper seems to be more teams regionally ranked, so you don't benefit from any upsets of team #2 or #3 in your conference.  Need them to finish with the best records you can so a couple of them eke into the final RR's.
Thanks for the welcome! Sorry about the coach speak; I'm enjoying the ride. I was worried about Geneva as we just ploughed through the Big 3 and a possible letdown.

W&J and CMU hook it up this week. Then W&J takes on Case next week and then there's the Academic Bowl between Case & CMU on 11/11. CMU is 6-1 and the other two are 5-1; with the round robin, things could get muddled as you could get a couple of 2 loss team. I'm assuming that wouldn't work in our favor.

I'm honest when I say I'm going to be very happy just making the playoffs.  A home game would put me over the moon. To see where we came from (losing 30 straight games) to now (4 ECAC bowl wins and possible PAC title) has been awesome to see.

What would you rate the odds of a home GCC playoff game to be? And who would be a likely opponent?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 19, 2023, 12:50:25 PM
Quote from: GCC Alumnus on October 19, 2023, 11:49:06 AM
I'm honest when I say I'm going to be very happy just making the playoffs.  A home game would put me over the moon. To see where we came from (losing 30 straight games) to now (4 ECAC bowl wins and possible PAC title) has been awesome to see.

What would you rate the odds of a home GCC playoff game to be? And who would be a likely opponent?

Absolutely.  I've been very impressed with the progress under DiDonato, albeit not surprised (to date myself...his first 2 years at GCC were my last 2 years at CMU, so I recognized the name when he was hired). 

It's always dangerous to try to predict the way a D3 playoff bracket will come together, because it's not as simple as seeding the teams #1-32 and stickign them on a typical bracket.  With the desire to minimize flights and the 500-mile rule for bus trips, you can get weird pairings.  A 10-0 GCC with a win over a 9-1 "second place" team would be a decent resume.  Going unbeaten with .500 SoS and 1-0 vs. regionally ranked opponents is a pretty standard resume among conference champions, but it's going to place above just about anyone that has a loss, and I suspect it probably will be good enough to rank in the top-half of the seeds.  CMU getting a home game last year with a similar resume is a positive sign, but last year we also had the benefit of a couple decent non-conference results for the league (CMU beating RPI and Whitworth, W&J beating John Carroll) while the totally closed system prohibits that this year.

I'll peg the odds of a home game for "10-0 Grove City with a win over 9-1 PAC runnerup who also ends up regionally ranked" as somewhere north of 50% but south of 100% - in part because...

Likely opponents are difficult to guess.  If it's your first time really looking hard at such things, it's important to know that at-large selection happens first, then the brackets get built with the teams that are in.  Sometimes people suspect that selection of at large teams is affected by who makes the most convenient playoff travel matchups, but that is not true.   You start with the automatic qualifiers in, then select the at large teams, then identify the top 4 teams to be #1 seeds, then 4 brackets get built around those top seeds with a tacitly acknowledged mission of building a fair-ish bracket while minimizing the number of expected flights needed.  So you won't necessarily just play the team closest to you, because it has to fit into the bigger picture.

It might be easier to narrow it down something like this: if you stay undefeated...

- you won't likely be matched against a top seed in the first round.  So you'll probably avoid the Mount Union/North Central type teams in round #1. 

- you probably won't get to play one of the absolute lowest seeds, either, as those teams will generally be cannon fodder for the top seeds (e.g. you're not getting to host the UMAC champ in round 1).

- you probably won't play anybody from Minnesota/Wisconsin/Illinois/Iowa conferences (MIAC, WIAC, CCIW, ARC, MWC) because there are lots of teams all in that region that can get paired with each other.

- you probably won't play anybody from the West Coast or Texas (those teams tend to get paired with each other in a little pod since they basically all have to fly no matter who they're playing).

So who does that leave?  Some possible first-round opponents for a 10-0 PAC champ is likely a conference champ from one of the following: NCAC (like DePauw last year), HCAC, MIAA, ODAC, USAC, NJAC, Liberty League, Empire 8, Centennial.  Just quickly eyeballing, I suspect the champions of most of those leagues will end up within driving distance (500 miles) of Grove City, and most will similarly fall into that middle tier where they're not likely getting a top seed but nor are they likely to be sent to a top seed in the first round.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 20, 2023, 12:22:53 PM
It is super difficult to guess, but I agree that a Grove City home game is fairly likely -- probably 75% chance -- and XTP did a great job of laying out the possible opponents. There are many.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Jay Murry on October 20, 2023, 01:08:06 PM

Hello All,

While I will be following from afar WashU's efforts against North Central, it won't be idle following.

I will be in the midst of my Rett Gets Rocked 2023 24-hour ultramarathon at WashU to raise awareness of Rett syndrome and research funds to find a cure.  I'm starting around 8:00 Friday night (after I provide the call for the WashU-Saint Louis U. swimming and diving meet), and ending at 8:00 Saturday night. 

Rett syndrome is a neurological disorder caused by a gene mutation on the X chromosome.  It lays in the weeds until a child is between 6-18 months old, just when a child is learning to walk and talk.  Rett is like Lucy in the Peanuts comic strip when she pulls the ball away from Charlie Brown, as he tries to kick it.  Unlike Charlie Brown...when Rett pulls the ball away from children, they don't get a chance to get up and try again.  Children go into severe neurological regression; many end up in wheelchairs and most lose the ability to talk and to do sign language.  Those with Rett also are prone to seizures, extreme nerve pain, GI issues, breathing abnormalities, and eating difficulties that can all be life-threatening.

Researchers are relentless, providing hope on two fronts.  Back in March of this year, Daybue became the first FDA-approved drug to target the effects of Rett syndrome.  Daybue helps blunt some of the seizures and has helped improve some vocal and gross motor skills.  Gene replacement therapy clinical trials in two North American locations have helped one patient sit up independently for the first time in a decade, and to grasp objects for the first time since infancy.

It is this momentum of hope and progress that I am trying to assist and perpetuate.

If you would like to make a donation, click on this Rett Racers link:  https://rettracers.funraise.org/fundraiser/jaymurry

The families of children who have Rett and fight a tough fight every day, will be very grateful for your help.

Thank you for your time and consideration, and enjoy the games this weekend!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 21, 2023, 08:36:00 PM
Bravo to CMU vs W&J first half ... 32-7 halftime lead
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2023, 11:47:36 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 21, 2023, 08:36:00 PM
Bravo to CMU vs W&J first half ... 32-7 halftime lead

Well. I enjoyed that.

CMU came out flying on both sides of the ball and W&J just seemed a little flat footed for the first 30 minutes. Main thing CMU did schematically was come up with some wrinkles using RB Will Bouma in some wildcat formations and with some play calls (the fake bubble screen / QB draw) they hadn't used to date. Those caught W&J unprepared and led to several big plays. CMU got the early turnovers and big plays and was able to coast home after getting the big halftime lead. Great game for the Tartans. Amazing that CMU has now won four straight in that series.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GCC Alumnus on October 22, 2023, 03:08:45 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 21, 2023, 11:47:36 PM
Quote from: E.115 on October 21, 2023, 08:36:00 PM
Bravo to CMU vs W&J first half ... 32-7 halftime lead

Well. I enjoyed that.

CMU came out flying on both sides of the ball and W&J just seemed a little flat footed for the first 30 minutes. Main thing CMU did schematically was come up with some wrinkles using RB Will Bouma in some wildcat formations and with some play calls (the fake bubble screen / QB draw) they hadn't used to date. Those caught W&J unprepared and led to several big plays. CMU got the early turnovers and big plays and was able to coast home after getting the big halftime lead. Great game for the Tartans. Amazing that CMU has now won four straight in that series.
That's quite impressive, given W&J is a tough game regardless. Now, I'm the biggest Grover CMU fan there is.  ;D The Academic Bowl probably will determine who finishes second. Worse is that you get an ECAC bowl game which are a nice consolation prize. The PAC usually gets 2-3 teams in bowls.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2023, 12:15:58 AM
CMU has been a fairly frequent participant in the ECAC bowls since rejoining the PAC (2015, 2016, 2017, 2019). Prior to the PAC re-entry, we played in one my senior season in 2007 and also in 2012.  Speaking from personal experience...coming the year after a playoff berth in 2006, some guys may have found it lame (since, you know, it wasn't making the playoffs) but at the time we were not a program where "playoffs every year" was an expectation, and the seniors were unanimously enthusiastic about one extra game.  The way your season goes & your team's expectations entering the season surely factor in. We had lost four in a row at mid season and rebounded to win our last four, so I think we were all happy about the chance to put a little exclamation point on our season's redemption arc, but it may have been tougher to swallow if we had "just missed" the playoffs. It may feel different for a team that goes 9-1, or for a team that had very high expectations of making the playoffs. If you're a program that expects to win your conference every year, an ECAC game after going 7-3 probably feels like a letdown.  This is why some programs don't bother participating or seem all that enthusiastic when they do.

Not sure what this year's team would feel about it. The 2015 team was a big step forward after a few years of lackluster (by historical CMU standard) teams (2008-14 was the worst collective stretch for CMU in 30+ years).  That season marked the start of CMU's ascent to eventually being a real contender for the PAC title, though it took a few years to finally knock off W&J.  2015 was also the renewal of some really great Academic Bowl matchups after CWRU had seemed like the better program consistently for five or six years.  So in 2015, 2016, 2017 an ECAC bowl probably felt like pretty heady stuff.  In 2023, coming off two straight league titles...

I suspect an ECAC game would be viewed as a mild disappointment for this year's team if only because with last year's playoff success & the amount returning they had high hopes for another playoff run. So I'll hold out hope for Pool C. Starts with beating Westminster and CWRU...around the nation, gotta hope for a weird combination of results - as a fan of a possible "9-1 with a middling strength of schedule and likely 0-1 record vs regionally ranked opponents" you have to root for a) all the strongest on-paper teams to win their leagues and b) anybody else sitting in Pool C to take an extra unexpected loss. The WIAC and MIAC could do us a favor by continuing to eat each other. WashU could do us a huge favor if they could upset Wheaton. I'll have to poke around more but we basically want all the conference leaders who would be strong Pool C candidates to get their auto bids and then otherwise have complete chaos so there aren't many 9-1 teams on the board with good playoff criteria. So few Pool C bids available this year that you really can't bank on getting one, and I'm on record many times on these forums as saying "want to make the playoffs? Win your league" so ultimately if they miss out, that's life.

As for GCC: now that CMU has beaten W&J, I think you want to see either CMU or CWRU finish 9-1. Not sure it actually matters which; there might be a slight reason to prefer CMU if we think the committees who rank teams will take last year into account and be more likely to rank CMU than CWRU. I'm not sure you can really count on getting two other PAC teams into the final RR's. The closed system makes it hard to predict how they'll rank any of us.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 23, 2023, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2023, 12:15:58 AM


As for GCC: now that CMU has beaten W&J, I think you want to see either CMU or CWRU finish 9-1. Not sure it actually matters which; there might be a slight reason to prefer CMU if we think the committees who rank teams will take last year into account and be more likely to rank CMU than CWRU. I'm not sure you can really count on getting two other PAC teams into the final RR's. The closed system makes it hard to predict how they'll rank any of us.

Another factor is that CMU already dominated W&J.  If Case beats W&J in a close game, and then beats CMU in a close game, that does not look as strong.  If Case dominates W&J as well, then it goes back to what you said already about CMU's recent history being preferred.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on October 23, 2023, 09:33:39 AM
My Power Rankings after week 7 -

Tier 1

1) Grove City- One game at a time, don't lose focus and they are the PAC rep in the playoffs
2) CMU- After that game, I do wonder if they are not the best team in the conference despite the loss to GCC.
3) CWRU –I moved them to Tier 1 this week, we will find out Saturday if that was premature or not.

Tier 2

4) W&J- I am moving them down from Tier 1 this week because they got dominated. If they beat CWRU this week, I will bump them back up to tier 1.

Tier 3

5) Westminster- Won a tough game against Allegheny. 
6) Allegheny- Despite the loss to Westminster, they showed heart and really was in it for most the game.  Not sure on team makeup (senior heavy, mostly underclassmen, etc) to know if they are a rising program or not. 

Tier 4

7) Geneva- I think they are clearly better than their opponent this week Waynesburg
9) SVC- Westminster is the better team, but this is a winnable game none the less.  If they win this week, a 5-5 record is not out of the question.
9) Thiel- Allegheny game is winnable but will take a very strong showing this week. After that only other winnable game is SVC

Tier 5

10) Waynesburg- I think Geneva is clearly better, but if Waynesburg wants to move forward, they need to win this week and next before the W&J game.
11) Bethany- Will be interesting to see how much fight they have this week.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2023, 11:41:40 AM
Oddly, I am going to defend W&J a little bit here, despite the fact that I deeply and thoroughly enjoyed that game because I want us to beat W&J as much as anybody in the conferences.

CMU kicked their butts and deserves the win, but I honestly suspect if they lined up and played next week, the margin would be narrower.  Couple of reasons:

1. The wrinkle with Bouma playing the wildcat was the source of CMU's biggest offensive plays.  The fake-bubble-screen got'em for two huge runs in the first half.  Bouma had 140 rushing yards at halftime and finished with 149 yards.  CMU overall had 235 rushing yards at halftime and finished with 265 yards (the average per carry was depressed by a few TFL's with the second-stringers, but it wasn't hard to see that the CMU offense wasn't getting as much going after they adjusted to that wrinkle).  You don't just get to discount plays that happened with really good game-planning, but I suspect that a rematch would not see Bouma going for 5 touchdowns in the first half.

2. CMU's defense kicked W&J's offense around for the entire first half.  Sacks, turnovers, a blocked punt.  Other than the 67-yard touchdown pass, W&J barely did anything in the first half.  In the second half, they had several drives that actually went somewhere (once getting picked off inside the 10-yard line and another time stopped on 4th & goal at the 1; W&J also committed a boneheaded unsportsmanlike penalty after that play that ended up letting CMU start on the 16 instead of in the shadow of their own end zone).   A few things go differently there and W&J could have made it 32-21 or even 32-28.

Yeah, CMU may have relaxed/closed the playbook a little bit and coasted home since W&J never got within two scores, but I think we pretty much saw CMU's best game and one of W&J's worst games on Saturday.  Play it 10 more times and CMU might win >60% of them but I bet they don't win by 21 again.  I think that margin overstates the true gap between the teams.

It's academic now.  Time for CMU to rest, make sure they take Westminster seriously on 11/4 and set up a season-ending showdown of (hopefully) 8-1 CMU vs. 8-1 CWRU in the Academic Bowl that should have somewhat of a playoff atmosphere to it, being that both will still harbor at least some level of hope for a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: DagarmanSpartan on October 23, 2023, 01:35:12 PM
I hope that CWRU can indeed win its next two, and set up an "Academic Bowl" matchup for the ages!

Query: If the winner of the game finishes 9-1, what are the odds that they receive an at-large NCAA bid?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2023, 02:01:40 PM
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 23, 2023, 01:35:12 PM
I hope that CWRU can indeed win its next two, and set up an "Academic Bowl" matchup for the ages!

Query: If the winner of the game finishes 9-1, what are the odds that they receive an at-large NCAA bid?

We'll be able to take a little better guess at that when we see the first set of regional rankings, but my guess is (unfortunately) "not very good"

The closed system of the PAC assures a .500 (middle of the pack) strength of schedule metric and prevents any non-conference quality wins (like last year with CMU beating RPI and Whitworth and W&J beating John Carroll) to establish that the league's top teams are worthy of regional rankings.  The most likely resume for a 9-1 Academic Bowl winner is "9-1 overall, 0-1 vs regionally ranked opponents, .500 SoS" which is not a particularly strong Pool C entry. 

What should CMU and CWRU be hoping for?

First, you want teams that would be slam-dunk Pool C choices to win their league if possible. 

Second, you want teams that are already likely into Pool C to take as many dents as possible. 

St. John's shocking loss to Gustavus Adolphus now means they probably cannot win the MIAC (due to a very weird MIAC structure, discussed on this week's podcast, where only division games count for who makes the MIAC title game).  SJU is likely to finish 8-2 with a huge SoS and several results against regionally ranked opponents that will make one of the strongest possible "2-loss" resumes you can have.  You'd love to see SJU take a third loss somewhere if anyone left on their schedule can manage it. 

Hardin-Simmons (currently has one loss) is playing UMHB, who already has three losses.  You probably want to see HSU win that game and lock up the ASC auto-bid, because nobody's putting a four-loss UMHB into the field, but a hypothetical 8-2 Hardin-Simmons might be a threat considering they'll probably have an RR win vs UW-La Crosse and a very good SoS metric.

The OAC presents an interesting conundrum.  John Carroll is hangin' out with 1 very good loss (close one vs. UW-Whitewater) and Mount Union coming up.  An 8-2 JCU with close losses vs. both UWW and Mount Union could be tricky.  They won't have any regionally ranked wins but they also will have a good SoS and two "results" vs RRO's that look good on paper.  Bizarre as it may sound, by the letter of the criteria a 9-1 CMU/CWRU would (possibly) stack up better against 9-1 Mount Union (if Mount lost to JCU), since Mount's resume "on paper" would be a similar "9-1, 0-1 vs RRO's, mediocre SoS" - but I don't seriously think a 9-1 Mount Union is getting left out of the playoffs no matter what the criteria say.  I think you gotta hope Mount beats John Carroll and roll the dice there.

You just gotta hope for total chaos amongst the Pool C teams.  Our old friends WashU could do us a favor if they could shock Wheaton in a few weeks.  You want basically any team that could finish 9-1 without winning their league to lose a second game.  You want basically anyone that's got impressive non-conference wins to either win their league and take an auto-bid, or to take some extra losses that knock'em down to 8-2 or 7-3.

Johns Hopkins/Muhlenberg is another interesting game.  Johns Hopkins has a good nonconference win over Ithaca, who is likely to win their league and end the season regionally ranked.  Muhlenberg's nonconference resume is less impressive, so they'll be a weaker Pool C candidate than JHU.  If you're a Poolm C hopeful, you have to root for Hopkins there, since JHU would be a stronger Pool C candidate.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 23, 2023, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 23, 2023, 11:41:40 AM
Oddly, I am going to defend W&J a little bit here, despite the fact that I deeply and thoroughly enjoyed that game because I want us to beat W&J as much as anybody in the conferences.

CMU kicked their butts and deserves the win, but I honestly suspect if they lined up and played next week, the margin would be narrower.  Couple of reasons:

1. The wrinkle with Bouma playing the wildcat was the source of CMU's biggest offensive plays.  The fake-bubble-screen got'em for two huge runs in the first half.  Bouma had 140 rushing yards at halftime and finished with 149 yards.  CMU overall had 235 rushing yards at halftime and finished with 265 yards (the average per carry was depressed by a few TFL's with the second-stringers, but it wasn't hard to see that the CMU offense wasn't getting as much going after they adjusted to that wrinkle).  You don't just get to discount plays that happened with really good game-planning, but I suspect that a rematch would not see Bouma going for 5 touchdowns in the first half.

2. CMU's defense kicked W&J's offense around for the entire first half.  Sacks, turnovers, a blocked punt.  Other than the 67-yard touchdown pass, W&J barely did anything in the first half.  In the second half, they had several drives that actually went somewhere (once getting picked off inside the 10-yard line and another time stopped on 4th & goal at the 1; W&J also committed a boneheaded unsportsmanlike penalty after that play that ended up letting CMU start on the 16 instead of in the shadow of their own end zone).   A few things go differently there and W&J could have made it 32-21 or even 32-28.

Yeah, CMU may have relaxed/closed the playbook a little bit and coasted home since W&J never got within two scores, but I think we pretty much saw CMU's best game and one of W&J's worst games on Saturday.  Play it 10 more times and CMU might win >60% of them but I bet they don't win by 21 again.  I think that margin overstates the true gap between the teams.

It's academic now.  Time for CMU to rest, make sure they take Westminster seriously on 11/4 and set up a season-ending showdown of (hopefully) 8-1 CMU vs. 8-1 CWRU in the Academic Bowl that should have somewhat of a playoff atmosphere to it, being that both will still harbor at least some level of hope for a Pool C bid.

I'll also add here, you never want to play a good team on the heels of a bad loss.  CWRU will be heading into Washington, PA against a team who is looking to redeem themselves next week. 

With that said, man would a 8-1 vs 8-1 be a fantastic Academic Bowl.

It would be the most balanced in combined wins, with the closest being:

2017: 9-0 CWRU @ 7-2 CMU
2019: 9-0 CWRU @ 7-2 CMU
2022: 9-0 CMU @ 6-3 CWRU
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 23, 2023, 10:53:10 PM
CMU and CWRU on the Pool C heat map: https://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=9500.15
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 24, 2023, 04:23:14 PM
W&J notes on the big PAC matchup this week:  https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/sidearm.nextgen.sites/washjeff.sidearmsports.com/documents/2023/10/25/CWRU_Game_Notes_-_10-28-2023.pdf

CWRU notes on the big PAC matchup this week:  https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/sidearm.nextgen.sites/casewestern.sidearmsports.com/documents/2023/10/24/fb_WJC_game_notes23.pdf

Interestingly W&J and CWRU are exactly 3-3 against each other since CWRU rejoining the PAC.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 28, 2023, 06:38:21 PM
No CWRU/W&J video tonight?

EDIT: May not be a game worth watching f(or CWRU fans, at least), anyway.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on October 28, 2023, 07:05:20 PM
^ here's the game: https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/live/

But I'm about done watching ...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 28, 2023, 07:20:38 PM
Thanks for the link.  Hopefully we can score to open the second half and make it a game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 28, 2023, 07:47:58 PM
Done

The W&J FG looked to me like it was over the upright not through
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 28, 2023, 09:47:25 PM
There were a number of questionable calls in W&J's favor, but CWRU didn't really play well enough to deserve to win that game.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on October 28, 2023, 10:15:55 PM
Blocked punt was the difference.

Jeff you missed key plays in the first half. Here's the replay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZJnLbjuieE

After the first W&J TD. CWRU went three and out and punted. The punt was muffed at the W&J 12, but went out of bounds before the Spartans could recover. W&J went three and out and after a short punt, Spartans started at $&J 48. On 3rd and 4 a W&J lineman clearly jumped into the neutral zone -- event the commentators agreed, but no flag and Fromberg's pass, perhaps thinking it was a free play,  is intercepted. The INT was a great play by the defender who leaped high to make the catch. On the drive that followed, Sais was called for a late hit out of bounds when an inbounds tackle drove the ball carrier into him while he was standing at the side line.

An impressive comeback from a 21-7 deficit that just fell short.

Total offense CWRU 446 W&J 431 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on October 29, 2023, 03:53:19 PM
Thanks, ADL.  I missed all but the last few minutes of the first half.  I don't like complaining about the refs (I don't know if I ever have on my 15 or so years on this board), but combined with some questionable calls I saw in the second half, it sure does sound like we got homered a bit.

The roughing the QB on W&J's last drive was a terrible call.  However, the worst call of the entire game had to be the block in the back called on Coyne that turned about a 30 yard gain into an 8 yard gain.  An earlier interference call was even called into question by the announcers.  Whether or not any of these calls individually affected the outcome of the game, collectively they made it feel like we were playing against more than 11 W&J players at a time.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 04, 2023, 08:00:03 PM
A few weeks ago I made some posts reviewing the financial positions of PAC schools. Well here is an article from Forbes that reports some great news for three small liberal arts colleges.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2023/10/16/three-private-colleges-each-receive-record-breaking-50-million-gifts-for-student-scholarships/?sh=613f96ba52cd

One is my alma mater (you can guess which one) and another is my wife's   - Hood College. As the article says these are game changing events for all three colleges and will help them navigate the rough waters ahead.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 04, 2023, 08:23:52 PM
By the way, watched the W&J game. They dominated, should have no problem with Waynesburg, and be on their way to a Bowl Game. Nice reward for the seniors.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 04, 2023, 08:37:06 PM
Speaking of W&J dominating, CWRU also dominated Allegheny.  After watching CWRU play W&J and then Allegheny two weeks in a row, I have to ask; how in the world did W&J get out gained by Allegheny (and held scoreless in the second half)?  I expected Allegheny to put up more resistance against CWRU, but they got trounced.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 04, 2023, 09:00:47 PM
My sons and I traveled from Cleveland, Knoxville, and Cincinnati to go to a fraternity reunion and watch the game. I have no explanation, but as they left the field after the game to go to the locker room they were psyched and talking about how they were back. Well, apparently they still have some work to do to get to the top tier of the PAC. No other PAC football team has won a national title, so they do have a history...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: GCC Alumnus on November 08, 2023, 04:02:26 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 04, 2023, 08:23:52 PM
By the way, watched the W&J game. They dominated, should have no problem with Waynesburg, and be on their way to a Bowl Game. Nice reward for the seniors.
Your QB is good. I spoke to him after the Grove City game and he also seems like a good guy.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 10, 2023, 04:31:25 PM
GCC Alum, I've seen him in some interviews and agree . He was also a CSC Academic All District last year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: jam40jeff on November 11, 2023, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 04, 2023, 09:00:47 PM
My sons and I traveled from Cleveland, Knoxville, and Cincinnati to go to a fraternity reunion and watch the game. I have no explanation, but as they left the field after the game to go to the locker room they were psyched and talking about how they were back. Well, apparently they still have some work to do to get to the top tier of the PAC. No other PAC football team has won a national title, so they do have a history...

Now I'm truly baffled as to what team W&J is.  Getting shut out in the second half by Waynesburg and only winning by 5?  Was this the same team I saw playing CWRU 2 weeks ago?
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 12, 2023, 05:43:27 AM
Quote from: jam40jeff on November 11, 2023, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: WashJeff68 on November 04, 2023, 09:00:47 PM
My sons and I traveled from Cleveland, Knoxville, and Cincinnati to go to a fraternity reunion and watch the game. I have no explanation, but as they left the field after the game to go to the locker room they were psyched and talking about how they were back. Well, apparently they still have some work to do to get to the top tier of the PAC. No other PAC football team has won a national title, so they do have a history...

Now I'm truly baffled as to what team W&J is.  Getting shut out in the second half by Waynesburg and only winning by 5?  Was this the same team I saw playing CWRU 2 weeks ago?

W&J had quite a range of outcomes this season. Scraping by Waynesburg and Allegheny but also beating CWRU, going to the end with Grove City and blowing out Westminster. Even within game vs CMU they were a different team in the two halves though I credit much of that to CMU bringing a wrinkle in the offensive game plan they were not ready for.

Some teams are just a little inconsistent. And (though it shouldn't be like this) some teams at the end of a season that had playoff hopes at the start don't bring their best in week 11 if those playoff hopes are already extinguished. Maybe you'd say that shouldn't happen in a rivalry game, but none of the guys on W&J were around the last time Waynesburg was any meaningful sort of rival.  Reading the recap, W&J got up big and actually had a chance to be up even bigger (if I'm reading the game recap right they had two separate instances of fumbles on the 1 yard line resulting in touchbacks?!) and the offense just didn't keep the big plays coming that had scored in the first half, while Waynesburg finall did start to get it going.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2023, 04:19:17 PM
W&J lost two touchdowns, fumbling the ball into the endzone.
Since losing to Grove City (and the shot at the PAC title), lack of crispness had been a struggle.
Too many Unsportsmanlike penalties (like yesterday, like CMU), too many dropped passes, too many missed tackles.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 13, 2023, 12:40:03 PM
Grove City has an "interesting" draw.

Part of me is salty on behalf of the conference that they did not get a first round home game; I think they deserve one.  We have previously discussed the things that may have prevented that (closed PAC schedule locking us all into .500 SoS numbers and preventing the chance to get RR wins out of conference; I also think that Region 2 only ranking seven teams is a screwjob, since CMU would have an argument to be ranked in at least three other regions; the fact that there are three OAC teams ranked and three MAC teams ranked but not a second from the PAC despite having a 9-1 runnerup feels pretty starkly ridiculous to me).  So I don't love that unbeaten Grove City is on the road while quite a few 9-1 teams within driving distance are hosting.  There's no real argument for them to host Susquehanna, who has a big SoS and two wins over other playoff teams, but I do wonder about some of the 9-1's hosting while Grove City gets sent to 10-0 Susquehanna.  Anyways...

That said, their quadrant...isn't horrible?  Susquehanna is a tough first round draw but not unbeatable, and both Endicott/Cortland also feel like they're at least in the same approximate strata as Grove City.  Everyone is tough in the playoffs, but I think a quarterfinal berth is not entirely out of the question.  A first round loss, also, is certainly possible; Susquehanna is unbeaten, battle tested with wins over two other playoff teams, and has some postseason experience on their roster.  Most would probably make them the favorite, and even I am torn in my rooting allegiance with a kid from my HS alma mater leading the charge at RB for Susquehanna.  But for the sake of the PAC, I am rooting for Grove City to win a couple so we can keep moving the PAC up in national estimation...
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 13, 2023, 01:00:34 PM
CMU hosts ECAC Bowl https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/index

As does W&J https://gopresidents.com/sports/football/schedule
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WRMUalum13 on November 13, 2023, 08:27:37 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 13, 2023, 12:40:03 PM
Grove City has an "interesting" draw.

Part of me is salty on behalf of the conference that they did not get a first round home game; I think they deserve one.  We have previously discussed the things that may have prevented that (closed PAC schedule locking us all into .500 SoS numbers and preventing the chance to get RR wins out of conference; I also think that Region 2 only ranking seven teams is a screwjob, since CMU would have an argument to be ranked in at least three other regions; the fact that there are three OAC teams ranked and three MAC teams ranked but not a second from the PAC despite having a 9-1 runnerup feels pretty starkly ridiculous to me).  So I don't love that unbeaten Grove City is on the road while quite a few 9-1 teams within driving distance are hosting.  There's no real argument for them to host Susquehanna, who has a big SoS and two wins over other playoff teams, but I do wonder about some of the 9-1's hosting while Grove City gets sent to 10-0 Susquehanna.  Anyways...

That said, their quadrant...isn't horrible?  Susquehanna is a tough first round draw but not unbeatable, and both Endicott/Cortland also feel like they're at least in the same approximate strata as Grove City.  Everyone is tough in the playoffs, but I think a quarterfinal berth is not entirely out of the question.  A first round loss, also, is certainly possible; Susquehanna is unbeaten, battle tested with wins over two other playoff teams, and has some postseason experience on their roster.  Most would probably make them the favorite, and even I am torn in my rooting allegiance with a kid from my HS alma mater leading the charge at RB for Susquehanna.  But for the sake of the PAC, I am rooting for Grove City to win a couple so we can keep moving the PAC up in national estimation...

Well it certainly wasn't just GCC that should feel disrespect, it looks like even the 2x defending national champs are the #2 seed in their quadrant

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2023, 08:32:28 AM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on November 13, 2023, 08:27:37 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 13, 2023, 12:40:03 PM
Grove City has an "interesting" draw.

Part of me is salty on behalf of the conference that they did not get a first round home game; I think they deserve one.  We have previously discussed the things that may have prevented that (closed PAC schedule locking us all into .500 SoS numbers and preventing the chance to get RR wins out of conference; I also think that Region 2 only ranking seven teams is a screwjob, since CMU would have an argument to be ranked in at least three other regions; the fact that there are three OAC teams ranked and three MAC teams ranked but not a second from the PAC despite having a 9-1 runnerup feels pretty starkly ridiculous to me).  So I don't love that unbeaten Grove City is on the road while quite a few 9-1 teams within driving distance are hosting.  There's no real argument for them to host Susquehanna, who has a big SoS and two wins over other playoff teams, but I do wonder about some of the 9-1's hosting while Grove City gets sent to 10-0 Susquehanna.  Anyways...

That said, their quadrant...isn't horrible?  Susquehanna is a tough first round draw but not unbeatable, and both Endicott/Cortland also feel like they're at least in the same approximate strata as Grove City.  Everyone is tough in the playoffs, but I think a quarterfinal berth is not entirely out of the question.  A first round loss, also, is certainly possible; Susquehanna is unbeaten, battle tested with wins over two other playoff teams, and has some postseason experience on their roster.  Most would probably make them the favorite, and even I am torn in my rooting allegiance with a kid from my HS alma mater leading the charge at RB for Susquehanna.  But for the sake of the PAC, I am rooting for Grove City to win a couple so we can keep moving the PAC up in national estimation...

Well it certainly wasn't just GCC that should feel disrespect, it looks like even the 2x defending national champs are the #2 seed in their quadrant

By no means am I suggesting North Central did not also get a screwjob, but this being the PAC board and not the CCIW board nor a national board, I chose to comment on Grove City's draw.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on November 14, 2023, 03:41:33 PM
Obviously, the PAC did not get any respect as their 10-0 champ was sent on the road. They have a tough task ahead of them is Susquehanna, but I would not call them underdogs either. I see this as a close game and whoever wins it, will have earned the victory.  Obviously I am pulling for GCC.  Good Luck.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on November 18, 2023, 02:43:54 PM
W&J played a full 60 minutes and prevailed 46-21. Plenty of "glory" to go around.

Chances look good for a PAC sweep today.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: D3Navy on November 18, 2023, 06:40:25 PM
Congrats Grove City!  Gritty win on the end.  Others now know, like you have all along, that you are NOT an underdog.  Best of luck the rest of the way!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 18, 2023, 09:18:05 PM
CMU defeats Brockport 37-7. A three-sweep for the PAC, the Rodney Dangerfield conference of D3 football.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on November 18, 2023, 09:20:50 PM
Quote from: mikefln on November 14, 2023, 03:41:33 PM
Obviously, the PAC did not get any respect as their 10-0 champ was sent on the road. They have a tough task ahead of them is Susquehanna, but I would not call them underdogs either. I see this as a close game and whoever wins it, will have earned the victory.  Obviously I am pulling for GCC.  Good Luck.

Until today, there was no way to measure how good the PAC teams were.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 18, 2023, 09:20:50 PM


Until today, there was no way to measure how good the PAC teams were.

Great win by GCC, as I figured it was a hard-fought game. Proud of W&J and CMU, they certainly helped the PAC's rep today for sure.  I hear you that there was no great way to measure the PAC before Saturday this season, but there is enough "history" on the PAC's side.  Plus there is also an eyeballs test.  You could just look at GCC, W&J, CMU, and CWRU and realize they are good teams that would give anyone a good battle even if they were on the losing side. 

As far as this week is concerned, it is much like last week.  It is a joke that an undefeated team is traveling to a team that has a loss.  It becomes even bigger of a joke when that one loss team lost at home to a team that the undefeated team beat away.  GCC should have gotten the home game (while not common, in D3 there is precedent for it) but again no respect given to GCC or the PAC.  I expect another hard-fought game.  It will still be anyone's game in the 4th qtr, and whoever wins it will have earned it.  Again, I am pulling for GCC and I wish GCC luck.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 20, 2023, 08:50:15 AM
Quote from: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 18, 2023, 09:20:50 PM


Until today, there was no way to measure how good the PAC teams were.

Great win by GCC, as I figured it was a hard-fought game. Proud of W&J and CMU, they certainly helped the PAC's rep today for sure.  I hear you that there was no great way to measure the PAC before Saturday this season, but there is enough "history" on the PAC's side.  Plus there is also an eyeballs test.  You could just look at GCC, W&J, CMU, and CWRU and realize they are good teams that would give anyone a good battle even if they were on the losing side. 

As far as this week is concerned, it is much like last week.  It is a joke that an undefeated team is traveling to a team that has a loss.  It becomes even bigger of a joke when that one loss team lost at home to a team that the undefeated team beat away.  GCC should have gotten the home game (while not common, in D3 there is precedent for it) but again no respect given to GCC or the PAC.  I expect another hard-fought game.  It will still be anyone's game in the 4th qtr, and whoever wins it will have earned it.  Again, I am pulling for GCC and I wish GCC luck.

Congrats to GCC on a huge W! They are a very good football team and I'm very happy they showed their stuff against a solid Susquehanna team! Good luck this week!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2023, 09:08:29 AM
Quote from: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
It becomes even bigger of a joke when that one loss team lost at home to a team that the undefeated team beat away.

Mike, brackets don't work that way. They're set at the beginning of the playoffs.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 09:46:57 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2023, 09:08:29 AM
Quote from: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
It becomes even bigger of a joke when that one loss team lost at home to a team that the undefeated team beat away.

Mike, brackets don't work that way. They're set at the beginning of the playoffs.

Not going to pretend to be an expert so please make sure I am understanding this right.  If Susquehanna won the game, they would have hosted the 2nd round over Cortland (or Endicott if they won), but because GCC won, they have to travel? 

Like I said in D2 the NCAA does have precedent of moving a game.  Around 10 years ago Cal U of PA hosted a 2nd round or 3rd round game when they were not supposed to because the NCAA felt them more worthy as a team to host over their opponent and liked CalU's facilities better.   Not saying its commonplace, but it has happened before, at least in D2.   
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2023, 10:45:07 AM
Quote from: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 09:46:57 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2023, 09:08:29 AM
Quote from: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 08:35:24 AM
It becomes even bigger of a joke when that one loss team lost at home to a team that the undefeated team beat away.

Mike, brackets don't work that way. They're set at the beginning of the playoffs.

Not going to pretend to be an expert so please make sure I am understanding this right.  If Susquehanna won the game, they would have hosted the 2nd round over Cortland (or Endicott if they won), but because GCC won, they have to travel? 

Like I said in D2 the NCAA does have precedent of moving a game.  Around 10 years ago Cal U of PA hosted a 2nd round or 3rd round game when they were not supposed to because the NCAA felt them more worthy as a team to host over their opponent and liked CalU's facilities better.   Not saying its commonplace, but it has happened before, at least in D2.

Back in the days when grass was more prevalent, sometimes playoff games would get moved in D-III. But not because of the results from earlier in the tournament.

And yes, that's correct. Imagine Grove City as a 7 seed that beat the 2 seed and now has to go on the road to face the 3 seed.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on November 20, 2023, 11:12:42 AM
Thank you for explaining.  I thought in the past there was more "leeway" in who hosted.  And I know for fact about that Cal U of PA situation in D2, just can't remember the exact year. 

Even if GCC loses this coming Saturday hopefully next year they respect the PAC champ more.  It is such bs that an undefeated GCC/PAC champ has to be on the road all playoffs. If the PAC Champ has a loss or 2 so be it, send them traveling.  But total joke to send an undefeated team from a respectable conference traveling like that.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2023, 11:38:00 AM
It's not really about "respectable conference" or anything like that. It's based on what your individual team did during the regular season, compared to what the other team did in the regular season.

In Division III, there has basically been zero leeway. It's only if someone's field gets torn up or there is a significant security issue identified at an early round game where it might endanger the student-athletes. Those instances have been fairly rare, and basically non-existent in the era where basically everyone plays on turf.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: IC798891 on November 20, 2023, 11:47:30 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2023, 11:38:00 AM
It's not really about "respectable conference" or anything like that. It's based on what your individual team did during the regular season, compared to what the other team did in the regular season.

In Division III, there has basically been zero leeway. It's only if someone's field gets torn up or there is a significant security issue identified at an early round game where it might endanger the student-athletes. Those instances have been fairly rare, and basically non-existent in the era where basically everyone plays on turf.

It definitely would have happened to IC had they made the NCAA's in 2018. Turf is a lifesaver there
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 27, 2023, 10:01:06 AM
Didn't get to watch on Saturday, but heartbreaking loss for Grove City.

Congrats to the Wolverines on an excellent season and for representing the PAC well in the playoffs.  With GCC playoff win and very-near-miss for a quarterfinal berth plus Carnegie Mellon and W&J's playoff wins, hopefully it does continue nudging the national reputation of the PAC upwards.  I'm a little worried that next year with the closed-loop schedule we will get the same story as this year, so everybody had better go home and get cracking to try to win that conference title next year.

Congrats to all the seniors from all PAC schools, and best wishes in future pursuits.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Ice Bear on November 27, 2023, 10:48:37 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 27, 2023, 10:01:06 AM
Didn't get to watch on Saturday, but heartbreaking loss for Grove City.

Congrats to the Wolverines on an excellent season and for representing the PAC well in the playoffs.  With GCC playoff win and very-near-miss for a quarterfinal berth plus Carnegie Mellon and W&J's playoff wins, hopefully it does continue nudging the national reputation of the PAC upwards.  I'm a little worried that next year with the closed-loop schedule we will get the same story as this year, so everybody had better go home and get cracking to try to win that conference title next year.

Congrats to all the seniors from all PAC schools, and best wishes in future pursuits.

Congrats to Grove City on an absolutely amazing season. They are an excellent football team and that was a tough way to lose on Saturday. Grove City and the PAC certainly earned my respect! Congrats and looking forward to paying more attention to the PAC next season.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: mikefln on November 27, 2023, 11:00:28 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 27, 2023, 10:01:06 AM
Didn't get to watch on Saturday, but heartbreaking loss for Grove City.

Congrats to the Wolverines on an excellent season and for representing the PAC well in the playoffs.  With GCC playoff win and very-near-miss for a quarterfinal berth plus Carnegie Mellon and W&J's playoff wins, hopefully it does continue nudging the national reputation of the PAC upwards.  I'm a little worried that next year with the closed-loop schedule we will get the same story as this year, so everybody had better go home and get cracking to try to win that conference title next year.

Congrats to all the seniors from all PAC schools, and best wishes in future pursuits.

Amen.  Not much more I can add.  Tanks for a fun and exciting season. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 01, 2023, 02:16:27 PM
Congrats to CMU's Robert Coury Gagliardi semi-finalist.

https://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2023-24/releases/20231121lvop5q
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 16, 2023, 01:47:19 PM
PAC all season suffered from a conference-only schedule, meaning no way to measure against the rest of the country for RRO wins, Top 25, or playoff seeding:

We finally have extra data points:

2023 Non-Conference:

Carnegie Mellon 37 SUNY Brockport 7
Washington & Jefferson 46 U.S. Merchant Marine Academy 21
Grove City 21 Susquehanna 20
SUNY Cortland 25 Grove City 24

2022 Non-Conference:

Washington & Jefferson 35 Hobart 18 
Grove City 31 FDU-Florham 14
Carnegie Mellon 45 DePauw 14
North Central 28 Carnegie Mellon 7

Top 4 PAC conference against each other 2023:

Grove City 27 Case Western Reserve 24 (OT)
Grove City 21 Carnegie Mellon 14
Grove City 31 Washington & Jefferson 24
Carnegie Mellon 35 Washington & Jefferson 14
Carnegie Mellon 31 Case Western Reserve 21
Washington & Jefferson 38 Case Western Reserve 33


Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 17, 2023, 06:15:12 AM
Considering that Grove City a) beat the only team that beat the eventual national champions and b) lost a close heartbreaker to the national champions themselves and c) needed to work hard to beat W&J and CMU, maybe Pat will reluctantly concede that the top teams in the PAC were perhaps a bit underrated.

What a moment for D3 football. Maybe we're finally past the days when there are only 2 or 3 teams are real national title contenders. Massive congrats to Cortland (what an epic game!) and they give me hope that D3 football is now a sport where a bunch of top 25ish schools play on relatively equal footing rather than there being a big 2-3-4 teams that are 30 points clear of everyone else.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 17, 2023, 11:54:12 AM
PAC does appear to have picked up some respect in the final poll thanks to Grove City's playoff performance and Cortland's title. GCC ends up a very deserving #10 in the poll and CMU ends up coming in at 25. Two ranked teams in the final poll!
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on December 17, 2023, 05:22:05 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 17, 2023, 06:15:12 AM
Considering that Grove City a) beat the only team that beat the eventual national champions and b) lost a close heartbreaker to the national champions themselves and c) needed to work hard to beat W&J and CMU, maybe Pat will reluctantly concede that the top teams in the PAC were perhaps a bit underrated.

What a moment for D3 football. Maybe we're finally past the days when there are only 2 or 3 teams are real national title contenders. Massive congrats to Cortland (what an epic game!) and they give me hope that D3 football is now a sport where a bunch of top 25ish schools play on relatively equal footing rather than there being a big 2-3-4 teams that are 30 points clear of everyone else.


Not saying Pat won't. However, many voters still see the the next best R1/R2 team as eigth best.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 17, 2023, 06:21:10 PM
In hindsight, Carnegie Mellon was definitely a Top 20 team this year, and probably a Top 15.  Best educated guess if they had been let into the playoffs, it would have equated to at least two playoff wins (depending on when they crossed paths with Cortland!).

Another data point that shows some votes as either bias or laziness ... Brockport received a Top 25 vote! ... the same team Carnegie Mellon was up 30-0 in at halftime.   Heck #3 and #4 in the PAC (W&J and CWRU) would probably be two score favorites if they played them. 
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: E.115 on December 17, 2023, 07:34:13 PM
Here are my final "in hindsight" thoughts on where the top PAC teams plugged in nationally for 2023:

Top 10: Grove City
#15 - #20: Carnegie Mellon
#25 - #35: Washington & Jefferson
#30 - #40: Case Western Reserve

Again, I know it is super hard to measure playing inside the bubble of the PAC, but with the non conference results above and games against each other, this is where the top 4 would fall IMO.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 18, 2023, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 17, 2023, 06:15:12 AM
Considering that Grove City a) beat the only team that beat the eventual national champions and b) lost a close heartbreaker to the national champions themselves and c) needed to work hard to beat W&J and CMU, maybe Pat will reluctantly concede that the top teams in the PAC were perhaps a bit underrated.

What a moment for D3 football. Maybe we're finally past the days when there are only 2 or 3 teams are real national title contenders. Massive congrats to Cortland (what an epic game!) and they give me hope that D3 football is now a sport where a bunch of top 25ish schools play on relatively equal footing rather than there being a big 2-3-4 teams that are 30 points clear of everyone else.

Had to go to overtime to beat CWRU, too
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 19, 2023, 11:11:16 AM
Quote from: E.115 on December 17, 2023, 06:21:10 PM
In hindsight, Carnegie Mellon was definitely a Top 20 team this year, and probably a Top 15.  Best educated guess if they had been let into the playoffs, it would have equated to at least two playoff wins (depending on when they crossed paths with Cortland!).

Another data point that shows some votes as either bias or laziness ... Brockport received a Top 25 vote! ... the same team Carnegie Mellon was up 30-0 in at halftime.   Heck #3 and #4 in the PAC (W&J and CWRU) would probably be two score favorites if they played them.

Huh -- I voted for Brockport, and I voted for Carnegie Mellon several spots above that as well. And Grove City seventh. I guess take my ballot away.

I say as always, there was never any way to say where PAC teams should be ranked before Week 12 came and they played anyone other than other PAC teams.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on December 20, 2023, 10:46:50 PM
On the proverbial 'any Saturday,' I think any of the top 4 PAC teams could have beaten any other. CMU v W&J was the big outlier, owing to CMU's use of Buoma running from direct snap since, starting QB Ben Mills was unable to play. The Tartans were up 32-7 at the half and won 35-14. CMU beat CWRU 31-21. If Spartans hadn't used all it's time out in the closing 2:32 with CMU getting the ball on the CWRU12 following an interception, I think CWU would have taken three knees and the final score would have been 24-21.

It appears that the PAC will end the full round-robin for the 2025 season, hopefully finding a way to avoid 2017 when Thomas More and CWRU didn't play one another and each finished 10-0, 8-0 PAC. Would they invite Hiram back (winners of 1982 PAC football title and a top PAC team in 80s), but fallen on hard times of late? Hiram might be glad to be rid of road trips to Western Indiana. Then have two 6-team divisions with a title game like MWC did for several seasons up to 2019. They would need to avoid the Big 10's problem have having the top 3 teams lately being in the same division. CWRU and CMU and the other rivalry pairs: W&J and Waynesburg, Grove City and Thiel, Westminster and Geneva, and Bethany and St Vincent ought to be in the same division, but otherwise they could be reapportioned every four years creating divisions or relatively equal strength.

Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: WashJeff68 on February 21, 2024, 06:28:27 AM
So, John Carroll is leaving the OAC for the NCAC and there are rumors that there may be another school headed that way. Could it be CWRU? That would result in each conference having 10 teams allowing each conference to schedule an out of conference game every year.
Title: Re: FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference
Post by: ADL70 on February 21, 2024, 09:50:55 PM
CWRU will remain in UAA for all sports that aren't football. PAC seems to me to be the best place for football, given how heavily they recruit in WPa.