MBB: Coast 2 Coast Athletic Conference

Started by Mr. Ypsi, March 27, 2005, 10:16:13 PM

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x33ycp

If Salisbury can knock off Mary Wash on Sat at Sal... and YCP can take care of St. Mary's...YCP would be dormie (Im itching to play some golf) with 2 to play. Salisbury has not been playing very well as of late....however it looked like the they gave Mary Wash a heck of battle at Goolrick earlier this year....Gallaudet scares the living **** out of me....thats a team I wouldnt want to play...

kitchenrat

as an O's fan I know all about the "best player on a bad team" idea when it comes to awards. As  Cal Ripken about it. I think Player of the Year and 1st team should echo the second philosophy Scott outlined but that requires a lot more study of the options. Its like the argument over the D1 football coaches poll, can we ask them to know all of the little things that go into it when they have a ton of things to be doing. Granted one of those things is scouting and they of all people should see those things so they can think of a way to stop them. Maybe Pat needs to get on a poll for fan voting, one vote per screen name......can I get more than one?
Vita nostra brevis est
Brevi finietur.
Venit mors velociter
Rapit nos atrociter
Nemini parcetur.

Salem, VA

First off I want to comment that I was talking about the officating for both sides just not York.  There was a lot of bad calls all game.

Another thing I am just not some York fan talking about how good they are but look at the facts.  York has had 2 bad games this year and they only lost each game by 2.  Teams come into Wolf and just get blown out with the exception of Mary Washington.  I am not saying Catholic is bad but now they know they will be coming back here to play for the Conference title if they get here and frankly can anyone see York losing a game their after last night.  The reason they shoot so poorly was because of the crowd.  The crowd took them right out of the game and if anyone thinks otherwise I really do not know what game you were watching.  I'm sorry but Brian Singer gets hacked every play.  Yes he gets away with things but I think teams think the refs will not call it.  Over the last couple of home games, Brian Singer has been real effective from the line.  You need to give credit, when credit is due and say York blew them out regardless of how Catholic shot.  Every shot was contested, and that's what lead to all those bad shots. 

What is the tiebreaker if York does lose to Mary Wash and Mary Wash wins out?  Mary Wash has that bad loss to Goucher, does that determine it.

Thanks

mwgoonie

Does the loss to GOu even count? Or would it go to Regional W/L? York would have the advantage bc they virtually play only regional games while UMW went out of region early in the season. 


ycp

I believe, in my previous experience with the CAC, the following is true....

If YCP and UMW with their next two games (by no means a certainty either way), the winner of the game on Feb. 18 at Goolrick wins the top seed. If YCP wins, they are all alone in first and are the first seed. If UMW wins, they are tied with York and hold the second tie breaker which would be, they swept SAL and York split. (if I am wrong, someone, like the official CAC SID if he is in the office on this fine Thursday, let me know).

As I said, this is based on the Spartans and Eagles each winning their next two, which in this league is no given at all.

Still a lot of basketball remaining to be played with three regular season games left.

x33ycp

I think....but not sure...that this is how it would work out....maybe pat or scott could verify this....

If Mary Wash would win out, inlcuding a win over YCP, they would get the #1 seed.

First tiebreaker would be head to head....which would be 1-1
You would then go to the team with the next best record....which would be CUA....both would be 1-1....then Gally both would be 2-0 (If YCP beats them next week)..It would then go to Salisbury.....which Mary Wash would be 2-0 and YCP would be 1-1....thats why it would be really nice for Salisbury to beat Mary Wash on Sat.....I really hope it doesnt come down to that last game at Goolrick....1 of YCPs 2 losses before the Final Four last year came down there.....tough place to win.....that said YCP still has control of their own destiny.....but then again so does Mary Wash...

x33ycp

I couldnt get it out fast enough!!! Thanks Scott

ycp

SS,

Silly students probably bothering you while you were trying to post. Darn Kids!

kitchenrat

The following is not meant in jest or as a cut.

Catholic does lead the nation in one area that some don't care about. I love their warm up pants. Seriously, the red and white vertical stripes are great. I don't know how that factors into tie breakers but there it is.
Vita nostra brevis est
Brevi finietur.
Venit mors velociter
Rapit nos atrociter
Nemini parcetur.

Matt Letourneau

Ha. Yeah, I love the candy stripes too.  At home in particular--they are a perfect match for Indiana's look.  When they first got them, my thought was that they had better be good to pull off that look.

So, if York beats MW, and Catholic wins out, Catholic and Mary Wash would be tied for 2nd at 10-4.  Who wins that tiebreaker? I would think it would be Catholic, since they would have beaten York once, and Mary Wash didn't, and on the other end Mary Wash has a loss to the worst team in the league.

That #2 seed is HUGE...you do NOT want to be on the road on Thursday night. Particularly if that means a trip to Fredericksburg. 

Salem, VA

I believe Scott is right with the tiebreaker, that being said I think Mary Washington's big game is this Saturday while York's scare should come from Gally next Wednesday.  Should be interesting to see if Mary Wash loses this Saturday and York wins how rowdy those fans will be for back-to-back CAC championships. 

Personally I hate those stripped pants, they look like the globe trotters.

mwgoonie

I think we've figured out that MW's loss to Goucher doesn't have much to do with tiebreakers because the tiebreakers sort the seeds out before it gets to records vs. Goucher.

John Rusnak

The tie breaker is based on your record against the next best team.  It's a little perverse because you get punished for losing to a good team versus the team that lost to a bad team.

Same discussion every year, but that's how they do it.

With that said, I definitely would not want to draw Gally in the first or second round of the tournament.  In the end it will just give York a better road to the title again.

As for the POY discussion, you almost have to give it to the guy that is on the best team.  You can make your first team anybody you want, but POY should go to somebody on a team that was successful.

No question Jon G is a candidate, but with Goucher struggling, you just can't do that.   JG, Chad, the SMC kid, they are all in a relatively tight range of talent and ability.  Nobody is Lebron or Mello, so break the tie by giving credit to the one who is doing it on a better team.

First team right now:

McGowan
Garritt
Lesense (never seem him, is he that good?)
Haney
Baker

I would throw F Jackson in the mix as well.  I've always liked him more than Haney, but all stats point in the other direction.

Others for discussion: Odemeru, Bushey, Sowden, Lee...I don't know any of the other new guys.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

In picking my 1st Team All-CAC I will NOT have any CUA players on my squad! NEVER!!! I hate the Cardinals!

WHAT?!

Well, the attack came out of no where and if anyone really knows me, I hold CUA to a high standard. I was in the gym when they won the national title and I know what they have been capable of. However, I am not impressed with thier squad or some of their players. As an individual and as someone who is a "media type", I am entitled to express that opinion. If you don't like it... ask me if I care?!

I was at the YCP/CUA game and have side with "ycp" on the officiating. I thought it was actually a well officiated game. They let the teams play and it didn't become a whistle-every-possesion-game. You might want a whistle for EVERY bit of contact, I am not a fan of those type of games. The double-foul on McGowan and Dwyer was the right call, the carry-violation on Howard was the right call, the contact calls in the paint where also right. Just because they don't call it everytime doesn't mean they are calling the game badly. "ycp" does bring up the point that YCP was called for far more fouls than CUA and if Sowden new what a actual "legal" screen was, it would shock me (rant later next week). But the game didn't get out of hand, no calls changed the momentum of the game, and neither team was screwed.

Matt - the "rule" about reffing two games in a row I don't think is a rule... just a rumor people thought was true.

As for the actual game... YCP out played, out shot, out smarted, and out hustled CUA. Plain and simple. CUA played the first 10 minutes of the game well, the second 10 minutes OK, and then fell asleep. Yes, they shot 50% from the line, 28% from the floor in the 2nd half, and were out-rebounded by 13 or more, but those stats didn't show CUA change its game plan when the original was working.

They were being physical, moving the ball around on offense well, and going inside and outside well for open shots. But apparently the decision was made to spread out the offense. So later in the game the Cardinals had four players beyond the three-point line, with one player in the paint, and passed the ball around the premieter with the obvious intent of getting it inside. Everyone in the building knew they weren't going to hit a shot from outside the way they were shooting, so YCP sat back and baited them into passes. It couldn't have been more obvious that Fass and Lee were going to double-team the post. They were letting their player be wide-open outside (one pass away) while they camped down low for the double-team. CUA simply changed their game-plan for the worse and YCP fed off them.

No, YCP is probably not THAT much better than CUA and CUA is probably not THAT bad as a team. But it did show one thing, CUA has lost that toughness and cockiness it used to walk in with.

I don't understand why this team couldn't be SO much better. Sowden (who I have not praised) could be a great player, but he is missing something that makes him go for it (like the easily missed two-handed dunk). He can play, but he doesn't seem motivated enough when ever I have seen him play, to just take over a game (like McGowan did). Dwyer is a very good talent who is very physical, but he can mentally break-down and beat himself completly out of a game. And that leaves you with the guards... who simply look confused. There is no chemistry with the Cardinals guards. One set is on one page, one set is on another. Wasilenko and Kelley have been demoted and look like they don't care about playing with the team. The other guys try, but are too young.

CUA could be a great team... but they can't put it all together.

YCP is a good team... that is putting it all together to be great.

There is the difference in these teams!!!
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: allfirst on February 09, 2006, 02:59:21 PM
No question Jon G is a candidate, but with Goucher struggling, you just can't do that.   JG, Chad, the SMC kid, they are all in a relatively tight range of talent and ability.  Nobody is Lebron or Mello, so break the tie by giving credit to the one who is doing it on a better team.

First team right now:
McGowan
Garritt
Lesense (never seem him, is he that good?)
Haney
Baker

I would throw F Jackson in the mix as well.  I've always liked him more than Haney, but all stats point in the other direction.

Others for discussion: Odemeru, Bushey, Sowden, Lee...I don't know any of the other new guys.

POY right now I think goes to McGowan, but I don't want to dismiss Garritt.

Just for arguments sake, Garritt doesn't deserve to not be counted, just because his team is 1-19. Example:
My junior year in college, Goucher's soccer team went 0-17 for the season. I played on the team as the back-up goalie and had to start three games after a cheap hit by a Marymount player, caused our starter (Jeff Lowe) to miss the games. I finished the Marymount game and played against Salisbury (got throttled). And while we were 0-17, 12 of those games were 2 goals or less margins of defeat. Lowe was named 1st team All-CAC Goalie (only one selected). The conference realized while we were not the best team on paper, Lowe was the best goalie in the conference... even missing a game and a half against conference opponents.
That said... Garritt deserves at least to be thought of because, while the team has struggled, he has kept them in game, after game, after game. He also beat UMW single-handedly. He almost dragged a very tired Gophers to another win over SAL. He has played more than 30 minutes a game and does it both ends of the court.

But, McGowan has played a great year as well. CUA had no answer for him last night. He might only be a second-year player, but he is playing like a veteran. He certainly is one of the best players in this conference.

My 1st Team:
McGowan
Bushy
Garritt
Baker
Lesesne (honorable mention right now, haven't seen him play) or Dwyer

2nd Team:
Haney (who I think is a bit overrated)
Sowden
Williams, R. or Russo
Lesesne or Dwyer
Fass

Odumeru is too inconsistent, can't put an entire game together night in and night out.
Lee has had a horrible season and is not a consistent player this year.

POY - McGowan or Garritt
ROY - tough to say, no one has stood out.
Coach/Year - Gamber or DeStefano
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.